# Ears and ventilation for a fursuit head.



## Bir (May 18, 2010)

I want to somehow create ventilation in a fursuit head I plan on making. Perhaps mesh out a part of the head, and have hollow ears so heat can escape? *Has anyone tried this before? Does it work well in keeping the head less hot?*

I'm not fond of foam, so most of the head will probably be formed with duct tape. Duct tape pretty much creates sweat out of nowhere, so ventilation is an absolute must. 

So *if you've tried this before*, does it work well? Do you perhaps have any pictures or *advice* you could share?


----------



## Jesie (May 18, 2010)

The entire mask made out of ducktape? I hate to tell you this man, but that's gonna look like a huge pile of shit.

Save yerself the trouble and commission a mask by this guy if you hate foam so much.


----------



## DragonFoxDemon (May 18, 2010)

Duct tape would be like covering your head in a tarp.

I've had vents in the ears and open mouths on my heads before. Mesh in the eyes helps.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 18, 2010)

Pro-tip: If you finished head has duck-tape in you've done something wrong. A head should never be made of duck-tape.

The fumes will mess with your head and sinus's and it will be more hot than a foam head.


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

Not the entire head, guys. The base of it. The part that most people make out of foam. My character has fur on her, not duct tape. Jeez. XD

Come on, seriously? Did none of you know what I meant? ;;


----------



## Jesie (May 19, 2010)

Still gonna look like shit...


Ther's a reason folks don't make masks out of ducktape.


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

Jesie said:


> Still gonna look like shit...
> 
> 
> Ther's a reason folks don't make masks out of ducktape.



I don't see how. It's just building up form with a different material. 

and I've heard nothing but "It's gonna look like shit" but no reasons to back it up. : /


----------



## DragonFoxDemon (May 19, 2010)

I'm not sure how many more reasons you need.

It will be very hot, meaning you will sweat a lot coating the inside with no way to wash it because it is duct tape.
It will smell because of the fumes.
Duct tape tends to ooze/get sticky when heated.


----------



## Jesie (May 19, 2010)

And it'll look like shit.


----------



## Hellivina_Khaos (May 19, 2010)

DragonFoxDemon has the most valid points.  Yes, I have seen a number of things made with duct tape (though never a fursuit head base), but I really wouldn't recommend it as a base material either.


----------



## NoxTigress (May 19, 2010)

Bir said:


> Not the entire head, guys. The base of it. The part that most people make out of foam. My character has fur on her, not duct tape. Jeez. XD
> 
> Come on, seriously? Did none of you know what I meant? ;;



I'm fairly confident I fully understand what you are saying.  And I'm also fairly confident that you are missing what certain others are saying.

Basically... duck tape doesn't breathe.  At all.  Meaning using duck tape as ANY part of making a head is going to make it that much hotter and harder to breathe in.

Personally, my suggestion would be 1.) don't use duck tape as any permanant part of the head. Period. And 2.) if you're really that against using foam for the head, why not branch out into other mediums?  As I understand it, plastic mesh works quite well for making heads with, and it will breathe far better than duck tape ever will.

Both the above suggestions will very likely aid in your quest to have a cooler and more comfortable fursuit head (without the use of foam).  Oh and probably lighter in weight by a little as well.


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

Well, perhaps I'll see what I can do. Most of the reason why I feel like I should try something different from foam and other materials is that I hardly have an imagination, and I simply don't know how to work with those materials. I'd rather work with something I know the tendencies of. : /

What other materials are there? Foam, plastic mesh... ?


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

Well I appreciate everyone's concerns. x.x;; I wish a fursuit maker lived near me so I could get some help with this. Blaaahhhh.


----------



## NoxTigress (May 19, 2010)

Bir said:


> Well, perhaps I'll see what I can do. Most of the reason why I feel like I should try something different from foam and other materials is that I hardly have an imagination, and I simply don't know how to work with those materials. I'd rather work with something I know the tendencies of. : /
> 
> What other materials are there? Foam, plastic mesh... ?



I sympathize completely.

Um... Foam and mesh are the two most common ways, I think.  But I think I've seen mention of the use of molds to make cast latex or resin masks...  But as sure on those however since that's WAY out of my comfort zone.

Have you looked around on the Fursuit LJ Community at all yet?  Even if you don't have a Live Journal account you can still read through most of the Memories for tips and tutorials.


----------



## Hellivina_Khaos (May 19, 2010)

I've personally used latex for other projects, but again would not suggest it so much for this one as it does not breath well either and the oils in human skin breaks it down over time.  Some people also use resin, though I haven't had much luck with it as I live in an extremely humid environment and have problems with it curing properly.  Plaster cloth is another option.  It will remain rigid, but it does not breath well, and it's best to coat it with something afterward to avoid breathing plaster dust.


----------



## Ozriel (May 19, 2010)

Unless you are planning to asphyxiate yourself, making a head out of duct tape is a bad idea. 
[


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 19, 2010)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Unless you are planning to asphyxiate yourself, making a head out of duct tape is a bad idea.
> [



Even if you make just part of it out duck tape it's bad. It'll be worse than what glued together seams due. The fumes, do not want.


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Unless you are planning to asphyxiate yourself, making a head out of duct tape is a bad idea.
> [




What? I guess I don't know much about duct tape. : / I'm guessing there's something in the adhesive that's bad if mixed with heat and inhaled? : /


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 19, 2010)

Bir said:


> What? I guess I don't know much about duct tape. : / I'm guessing there's something in the adhesive that's bad if mixed with heat and inhaled? : /



On it's own without heat it will emit a smell that can mess with your head. Once you mix it with heat it causes the adhesive to heat up and release more fumes.


----------



## Ozriel (May 19, 2010)

Bir said:


> What? I guess I don't know much about duct tape. : / I'm guessing there's something in the adhesive that's bad if mixed with heat and inhaled? : /



Duct tape isn't exactly porous like foam, so it can cause suffocation. 
The Chemicals will make you loopy after long-term exposure, but with the mix of heat, less air and chemicals, I'd say you are in for a ride.


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

Well I suppose it would have been nice to know that /before/ I made a fool out of myself in a merciless forum. x.x;;


I was doing some thinking.. My fursona has my hair. Maybe I only need a mask, not an entire head. 

I guess the board is officially closed, then. Thanks everyone. : 3


----------



## RoseHexwit (May 19, 2010)

Why not make your head with a wire frame? It's more breathable than foam. Just make sure that you put a dab of hot glue on top of each wire's tip so you don't end up stabbing yourself. :3


----------



## Bir (May 19, 2010)

That's funny. x.x;; I was just playing around with wire a few minutes ago, and stabbed myself in my eye. XD

But I did succeed in making a wire mask. Just not to find out how to add stuff to it.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 19, 2010)

Bir said:


> Well I suppose it would have been nice to know that /before/ I made a fool out of myself in a merciless forum. x.x;;
> 
> 
> I was doing some thinking.. My fursona has my hair. Maybe I only need a mask, not an entire head.
> ...



We are only looking out for your health sweetie.


----------



## Fay V (May 20, 2010)

I'm gonna agree, ducktape is a no no. 
In terms of ventilation I'm not sure what you're looking for but, my fox head is made of foam with holes under the ears where the ear holes would be on an animal. the fur around and in the ears covers it up. it really helped with ventilation


----------



## Glitch (May 20, 2010)

As many have voiced, duct tape is a big, morbidly obese no.

You can use 1/2 inch foam to make the base like I did in my most recent headpiece.  It is really breathable due to the moving jaw, and to vent - yes - you can cut small-ish holes in the bottoms of the ears.  The fur from the top of the head (unless it is short pile) will hide the holes quite well.  (I use 2" pile fur and it hides the holes very nicely.)

I know you despise foam, but it's the least of many evils in the fursuiting world.  I refuse to use mesh or wire, and I have tried/hated balaclavas. 

 I like it, personally, because you can shape it like you're trimming a hedge or something, and it holds its shape without shrinking like a balaclava would.  The mask is also easy to put on/take off.  Also, no oozy, fumy nastiness.  Pluses all around!


----------



## Bir (May 20, 2010)

I'm just so, so bad at using it. I wish someone could foam a head for me, then I could just fur it myself. x.x;;;


----------



## Glitch (May 20, 2010)

Bir said:


> I'm just so, so bad at using it. I wish someone could foam a head for me, then I could just fur it myself. x.x;;;



I'd be one to leap up and say hey, but there are many you could look to that are pros with commissions.

Unless you want to send me your head in a box.
But that wouldn't go over too well, I'm sure.


----------



## DReaper3 (May 20, 2010)

Gorilla tape doesn't have near the fumes duct tape does. But it is just as hot. expensive too.


----------



## Bir (May 20, 2010)

Glitch said:


> I'd be one to leap up and say hey, but there are many you could look to that are pros with commissions.
> 
> Unless you want to send me your head in a box.
> But that wouldn't go over too well, I'm sure.




Damn. I should have sent it to you while it was detached. PX



Maybe I could commission someone to make a foam head for me, and then when I got it I could like, fix it up myself. -Wonders how much something like that would cost-

I mean, I've got tails down. I'm sure I could wip up feetpaws and handpaws pretty well, too.


----------



## Glitch (May 20, 2010)

Bir said:


> Damn. I should have sent it to you while it was detached. PX
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hell, I'm bored.
I'd do an at-cost base for you if anything just for something to do.  Maybe $5 profit at best; I don't care about money at this point.  

You'd be giving me a chance to practice as well, so, yeah.  Even the good high-density foam I use is pretty cheap, so it'd probably only run you 15-25 dollars tops (without shipping).


----------



## Jesie (May 20, 2010)

> Trpdwarf.             Reason: _I'm not going tell you again. Play nice._ When I tell someone they


I'm playing just fine. It's not being mean by saying she could poke out a damn eye with a bowling ball, it's stating a fact for this person. So don't power trip me when I'm telling it how the hell it is. 

When I say someone's being a fucking moron it's because they _are_ being a fucking moron. How many people need to tell her 'Don't do it' before she realizes she shouldn't do it?




You know what? Maybe she should make it out of ducktape. She would solve her own problem as she starts it.


----------



## Glitch (May 20, 2010)

Jesie said:


> I'm playing just fine. It's not being mean by saying she could *poke out a damn eye with a bowling ball*, it's stating a fact for this person. So don't power trip me when I'm telling it how the hell it is.
> 
> 
> None-artistic people commission artistic people to do this shit for a reason.



I wonder how that it possible.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 21, 2010)

Jesie said:


> I'm playing just fine. It's not being mean by saying she could poke out a damn eye with a bowling ball, it's stating a fact for this person. So don't power trip me when I'm telling it how the hell it is.
> 
> When I say someone's being a fucking moron it's because they _are_ being a fucking moron. How many people need to tell her 'Don't do it' before she realizes she shouldn't do it?
> 
> ...



No you are not. You are being unnecessarily rude and mean. There is no reason to cock an attitude here. If a person doesn't want to take your advice then they don't have to. You give advice and they either listen or they don't.



Bir said:


> I'm just so, so bad at using it. I wish someone could  foam a head for me, then I could just fur it myself. x.x;;;



Sometimes you can get people to do that. It's about finding the right   maker willing to make up just the foamed up bit. Sometimes pre-foamed   heads show up on furbid/furbuy as well.


----------



## Bir (May 21, 2010)

Jesie said:


> I'm playing just fine. It's not being mean by saying she could poke out a damn eye with a bowling ball, it's stating a fact for this person. So don't power trip me when I'm telling it how the hell it is.
> 
> When I say someone's being a fucking moron it's because they _are_ being a fucking moron. How many people need to tell her 'Don't do it' before she realizes she shouldn't do it?
> 
> ...





When everyone was telling me not to use duct tape, none of them were giving me reasons. Until someone actually told me /why/ I shouldn't use it, you pretty much looked like a jerk. Sorry, but to give advice is to give reasons and helpful hints, not just poke at the /seemingly/ obvious.


----------



## Bir (May 21, 2010)

Thanks Trpdwarf! I'll have to ask around. Unfortunately, I don't have a credit card, but maybe I can give some cash to a friend have have her buy it, if I wanted. XP

Glitch:  That would be super cool of you. I'd want to wait until I had at least $50 or $60 for a super simple head. I don't think that I'd be super picky as to want it to be incredibly detailed or anything. I believe I could cut it and shave it to my liking, it's just the... getting it attached in a semi head-like way, if you know what I'm talking about. And probably not even ears. I could always make them. XP But, yeah. If I can't figure out a way to do it, I'll definitely have you or someone make one or two for me. 

: 3


----------



## Glitch (May 21, 2010)

Bir said:


> Glitch:  That would be super cool of you. I'd want to wait until I had at least $50 or $60 for a super simple head. I don't think that I'd be super picky as to want it to be incredibly detailed or anything. I believe I could cut it and shave it to my liking, it's just the... getting it attached in a semi head-like way, if you know what I'm talking about. And probably not even ears. I could always make them. XP But, yeah. If I can't figure out a way to do it, I'll definitely have you or someone make one or two for me.
> 
> : 3



I'd make a base detailed enough to have proper anatomy.  All I'd need would be measurements and reference drawings (profile and frontal) in the style you're wanting (i.e toony, realistic) and we'd be golden.  And it'd be fine if you were picky; I am quite the perfectionist when it comes to anything.

Seeing as I have nothing but free time now that summer's coming around, I'd work quickly.  Someone commissioned feet from me and I got them done and shipped in a matter of 3 days.  My time might take a little more seeing as I'll need to buy supplies online instead of at a craft store now...  damn living in the middle of nowhere.

Eh.  I don't want Trpdwarf getting pissed at me for discussing commissions in the thread, so if you want to talk more, PM me.


----------



## Bir (May 21, 2010)

Jesie said:


> And I understand, but when someone tells you _"it will look like shit"_, Well! That's reason enough for me. Because I look at the project I'm doing and realize "HUH. That one mean bitch and five other people have just told me a mask made out of ducktape will look as ugly as home made soup_, BUT I WILL DISREGARD THAT!"
> 'It might kill you'_ should be more of a  reason to not do it.
> 
> 
> ...



Everyone said yarn looks like shit. Look where I'm at now. My painting teacher told me my painting would look like crap after I got the base coat down, but when I was finished he told me it looked more amazing than he even thought I could do. I bet I could make a wonderful duct tape head. Just because you haven't tried it, just because you don't have an open mind, just because you can act like a douche all over the internet and not give nicer opinions and hints, maybe I should do it. Text isn't intimidating, and it doesn't make you cool. Remember that. 




-sigh-

Maybe I should ask my questions in bold print, because I didn't ask for your opinions about duct tape. I asked if it would work, and I asked for hints from people who've used it. Now that I see nobody has done it, I'll have to try for myself. Just because I won't use foam I'm a stupid ass? Just because I want to try something different I'm a dumbfuck? 

And you listen to what everyone tells you with or without an explanation, huh? I'll bet you'd be the kid that jumped off a bridge if everyone told you it'd be good for you. 

Just because I'm asking questions from the public doesn't mean I'm trying to insult anyone or ask for attention. I wanted clear, constructive criticism. You can't seem to provide that.


----------



## shark whisperer (May 27, 2010)

i placed a fan in my fox's nose,
and i think of mesh eyes so that would be ,y ventilation

ductape is not so wise, it suffocates, use plastic mesh instead
my tut is here
www.flickr.com/photos/quiran_the_fox
but if you want the amazone river running in your neck, i should defenately use ducttape


----------



## Hyasinth (May 28, 2010)

Matrices has some great foam, foam-and-balaclava, and plastic mesh tutorials here http://matrices.net/fursuiting.asp


----------



## SecretDesire (May 30, 2010)

I say go for it Bir. Granted, duct tap its self has it's drawbacks, why not try something that has seemingly never been done? Maybe you'll be the first to work out all of the kinks and who knows, 5 years from now duct tape bases may be the big hit. (though I wouldn't really count on it)

But still, I say give it a try!


----------



## Squattle (May 8, 2011)

... Uh... yeah.. I agree with Jesie on this one... Having made a partial duct tape dummy of myself, I can tell you, It doesn't friggin breathe and you will sweat like hell. And if it's true about the fumes. For the love of god don't go all 'WELL NO ONE ELSE HAS DONE IT D: SO MAYBE IT'S GOOD! YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW, DURRRR..' No.. we do know and trust me, it's a bad idea. Another thing that no one's said yet, if you're looking to make your features entirely out of duct tape, that thing will be heavy as fuck.


----------

