# Thoughts on Perfectionism



## Foxdoge (Jun 12, 2013)

I'd like to hear your thoughts on true perfectionism and how it affects artistic output and expression.

In my experience with it, the realisation that what I would like to create will never be a perfect representation of what I am trying to express is crippling enough to prevent the completion and force the abandonment of all of my artistic endeavours.  You'd think that, being a perfectionist, it would affect me in quite the opposite manner, forcing my hand to labour and labour until I can work no more.

What I'm wondering is if I'm the only person with this problem, or if others experience this same feeling of defeat at the onset and duration of a project, if so, how it affects them, and whether or not they've found any methods to counteract or overcome it.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 12, 2013)

Humans make art, so therefore art is only going to be human and flawed. Perfect is just an ideal and subjective.

PS go read the sticky thread in the Critiques forum and read Art & Fear.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 12, 2013)

Perfectionism seems to be a negative and a positive at the same time.

Bad 'cos you're going to be self-critical far too easily and end up making yourself buttsad.

Good because you'll be looking for problems to correct!


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## Foxdoge (Jun 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Humans make art, so therefore art is only going to be human and flawed. Perfect is just an ideal and subjective.
> 
> PS go read the sticky thread in the Critiques forum and read Art & Fear.



That's the problem though.  I realise I lack the skills to perfectly create, and it just... defeats me.  I cease to see the point in what I am doing because it would only be a misrepresentation.

Also, I could not find the thread you were referring to.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 12, 2013)

Foxdoge said:


> That's the problem though.  I realise I lack the skills to perfectly create, and it just... defeats me.  I cease to see the point in what I am doing because it would only be a misrepresentation.
> 
> Also, I could not find the thread you were referring to.



Message of inspiration thread


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## Foxdoge (Jun 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Message of inspiration thread



Thank you.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 12, 2013)

I think perfectionism is overrated. All it seems to do is cause uneasiness about oneself. Isn't it also a part of OCD?


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## FireFeathers (Jun 14, 2013)

I don't think this is perfectionism so much as it's a lack of discipline. If you did something perfectly the first time, there'd be no challenge behind it. It'd be as second nature as breathing, and not special in any way shape or form. You want to be an artist, you have to bite down and deal with being a crappy artist for a long time until your aspirations match up with your product.  Skills are not achieved in a day, and it's unreasonable to think that just because you can't do it right the first time, that it's pointless to do so.


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## Foxdoge (Jun 18, 2013)

FireFeathers said:


> I don't think this is perfectionism so much  as it's a lack of discipline. If you did something perfectly the first  time, there'd be no challenge behind it. It'd be as second nature as  breathing, and not special in any way shape or form. You want to be an  artist, you have to bite down and deal with being a crappy artist for a  long time until your aspirations match up with your product.  Skills are  not achieved in a day, and it's unreasonable to think that just because  you can't do it right the first time, that it's pointless to do  so.



Hmmm, I can't say I disagree with you, but the thing is, the end product will never actually be perfect (at least, not in my opinion), no matter how much skill is accumulated over the years.  Yes, you'll improve passed the point of crappy artist, but it's hard for me to care if the end product, no matter the effort, will not be perfect.  Again, it's moreso personal musings, and I still do draw quite often; I recognise I'm not going to get any better without practice, but I still find it hard to care.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2013)

Foxdoge said:


> Hmmm, I can't say I disagree with you, but the thing is, the end product will never actually be perfect (at least, not in my opinion), no matter how much skill is accumulated over the years.  Yes, you'll improve passed the point of crappy artist, but it's hard for me to care if the end product, no matter the effort, will not be perfect.  Again, it's moreso personal musings, and I still do draw quite often; I recognise I'm not going to get any better without practice, but I still find it hard to care.



Tell me what perfect is


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## Sparklepaws (Jun 18, 2013)

Perfection is self-defined, just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That being said, I'm a perfectionist myself, and realizing that perfection only goes as far as I want it to is something that helps me get through it.

I've come to accept that art can never truly reach perfection. Art is about expression and by nature can never be perfect, since there will always be conflicting views and societal changes on what the definition of "perfect" is.

But I could go on about the philosophies of perfection. Something you may wish to try is not caring. When you draw, seek to be good, not exact. "Let the creative juices flow", so to speak. :3


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## Kaluna (Jun 18, 2013)

I feel like that A LOT. But as Arshes said, that thread and the book Art & Fear, which I started reading recently have been some of the things motivating me. Also the realization that many artist struggle with the same things helps me to realize that it really is just fear. I've been trying to keep an open mind and just keep going and drawing every day if I can. I've been trying not to say things like "I hate my art", "This picture sucks!", "Why do I even try?!", "This looks like shit!" Because I really do put myself and my art down way too much. I've been trying to say and think more along the lines of "Even if it's not perfect, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile."


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## Troj (Jun 18, 2013)

I find that procrastination and perfectionism tend to tag-team each other, because the longer I put off doing something, the longer I can put off not having it measure up to my vision or standards.

Of course, then I feel bad that I haven't accomplished what I set out to do.


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## Grimfang999 (Jun 18, 2013)

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery  




I generally agree with this quote (with the nothing left to take away being no more flaws to remove). However absolute perfectionism being the desire for literal perfection is foolish. If you can get the art to exactly how you wanted it to be, then you have done it to the best of your abilities and intent. Perfectionism isnt a bad thing, so long as you are equally as capable on recognising the moment there is nothing more than can be done within your capabilties. Im gonna call this closeenoughism:V


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## Centradragon (Jun 19, 2013)

A lot of people have trouble realizing that art is super-subjective and you could easily replace "style" with "habit."

For people who have problems with perfection: time yourself with speedpaintings. It helps one to pace themselves and figure out what you can leave loose and what you should detail. The time trial means you can force yourself to stop much more easily. Quantity is always better than quality when it comes to learning art.


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## crankybat (Jun 24, 2013)

back in the day i used to be much of a perfectionist and went into most of my art with the thought process, "well, if i just keep working on this specific piece, it'll eventually be perfected." this made me spend hours on small details, erasing/redrawing over and over, and my overall artistic output was low because of this.

i've noticed MOUNTAINS of improvement after taking more of a "just do it" approach. if it's not working, i will redraw the ENTIRE image. if it's not worth redrawing the whole thing, i don't. my output has increased; i take what i like from each previous piece and carry it over into the next one instead of focusing on the negative.


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## Foxdoge (Jun 25, 2013)

crankybat said:


> back in the day i used to be much of a perfectionist and went into most of my art with the thought process, "well, if i just keep working on this specific piece, it'll eventually be perfected." this made me spend hours on small details, erasing/redrawing over and over, and my overall artistic output was low because of this.
> 
> i've noticed MOUNTAINS of improvement after taking more of a "just do it" approach. if it's not working, i will redraw the ENTIRE image. if it's not worth redrawing the whole thing, i don't. my output has increased; i take what i like from each previous piece and carry it over into the next one instead of focusing on the negative.



That's actually very refreshing to hear.  I've been trying to take more of such an approach, but I feel so anxious when I don't try to correct something I see as a flaw, no matter how miniscule.  ONE DAY, PERHAPS. Until then, I'll keep working at increasing my output and decreasing my anal tendencies.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 25, 2013)

Oh my God...
I have to make sure that every line is just the cleanest smoothest damn thing. I will spend minutes erasing/ctrl+z-ing just to get it right. Thankfully, I've noticed I'm getting faster with the results I want for my standards. So it's not as bad as it used to be.


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## Zydala (Jun 25, 2013)

My favorite thought on perfectionism (from _Art and Fear_):



> _The ceramics teacher announced on opening day that he was dividing the class into two groups. All those on the left side of the studio, he said, would be graded solely on the quantity of work they produced, all those on the right solely on its quality.
> 
> His procedure was simple: on the final day of class he would bring in his bathroom scales and weigh the work of the â€œquantityâ€ group: fifty pound of pots rated an â€œAâ€, forty pounds a â€œBâ€, and so on. Those being graded on â€œqualityâ€, however, needed to produce only one potâ€”albeit a perfect oneâ€”to get an â€œAâ€.
> 
> Well, came grading time and a curious fact emerged: the works of highest quality were all produced by the group being graded for quantity. *It seems that while the â€œquantityâ€ group was busily churning out piles of workâ€”and learning from their mistakesâ€”the â€œqualityâ€ group had sat theorizing about perfection, and in the end had little more to show for their efforts than grandiose theories and a pile of dead clay.*_


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 25, 2013)

I end up re-using that segment so much because it was what stuck out the most. That one and the one where you're dreaming about people's reaction about finished pieces you haven't started on yet.

http://skinnyartist.com/an-artists-bookshelf-art-and-fear/

_Vision is always ahead of execution. . . The artworkâ€™s potential is never higher than in that magic moment when the first brushstroke is applied, the first chord struck._

_â€œ*To require perfection is to invite paralysis.*  The pattern is predictable: as you see error in what you have done, you steer your work toward what you imagine you can do perfectly.  Your cling ever more tightly to what you already know you can do, away from risk and exploration, and possibly further from the work of your heart.  *You find reasons to procrastinate, since to not work is to not make mistakes.*â€

â€œTo demand perfection is to deny your ordinary (and universal) humanity. . . yet this humanity is the ultimate source of your workâ€
_

And ...

_â€œYou learn how to make your work by making your work. . . and lots of it!â€

*â€œThe function of the overwhelming majority of your artwork is simply to teach you how to make the small fraction of your artwork that soars.* One of the basic and difficult lessons every artist must learn is that even the failed pieces are essential.â€_


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## SinisterSaints (Jun 25, 2013)

I know this feeling painfully well. 95% of my stuff gets canned because of it.


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## Foxdoge (Jun 25, 2013)

I am actually very glad I've started this thread. It's left me with a few good quotes and opinions that I'm sure will at least aid in overcoming Perfectionist's Paralysis.


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## SiriusWolf (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm OCD and am a pretty stark perfectionist but i use it to motivate me. If i play a game or start a hobby i won't stop until i'm very good at it sometimes almost obsessively. I was afraid to start drawing again as like you said the vision never matches what ends up on paper but i saw it as a wonderful challenge and dove in. One week and i'm alot better and going to get a real pencil set next month. It's hard to get over your self criticism as they say you are your toughest critic. Try and get over the idea and fear of it coming out perfect and just try. Noone on the planet does anything perfectly and if they do it took many failures to learn how. Practice and perseverance is what can make you good.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Jun 25, 2013)

What helped me with this was watching other artists stream their work.  That artist you admire?  Their work also looks like shit initially, but they polish it out and it ends up looking lovely.  It helped me get over the hump of "this is awful, why am I still working on this."


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## Judge Spear (Jun 25, 2013)

^Wish I could say the same. lol


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## Ayn (Jun 28, 2013)

It's nice to hear someone else express the same feelings I struggle with. I quit art for years because of never being satisfied with what I created. It's only recently I've returned to it because I've learned to value the process, not just the outcome. I looked back with longing on those all-nighters I pulled listening to music and drawing in the dark and quiet and realized that those nights were fulfilling, calming, meditative. The end result didn't really matter.

I was trying to create the perfect representation of something in my mind, and I ended up discouraged because in the end it was of course imperfect. But every time I try to create something now, I have to remind myself over and over that the process is the important part. Cliche, perhaps, but I've learned the truth of it. Let go of the obsession that everything you do has to be just as you imagine it. The beautiful thing about art is that it lives, breathes, and morphs from what we envision.


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## Scor91 (Jun 30, 2013)

I know exactly how you feel so don't think you're alone on this.  I'm a perfectionist in all my other work and I feel really discouraged when I complete a job that I feel I could have done better.  This is one of the biggest reasons I've steered myself away from using a pencil or brush because I'm never truly happy with the outcome (with a few exceptions).  But something that I have found that works for me is doing bead work, its been one of the few art forms I do feel confident in.  But that's not to say that perfectionism doesn't sneak its ugly head in when it can.  In a good day I can draw up a design and pick a color scheme I'm happy with in just over an hour, but other days I've literally spent hours trying to pick colors I want or draw a design that I'd be happy with, only to become either too frustrated or discouraged to continue and I hang it all up for a week or so.  But its defiantly something that you work through, having other people's opinions help too.  They aren't seeing what you wanted to create, they are seeing what you did create and if they enjoy it then its still a win.


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