# Today is the Day of Remembrance for transgender murder victims



## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Every three days, a transgender person is  murdered.  Transgender hate crimes have been on the rise since 2008.   Being transgender means having a 50% chance of dying before the age of  50 years old, and a significant portion of that comes from violent  crime.  Transgender hate crimes are substantially more brutal than other  assaults and murders, standardly involving severe beatings, torture,  mutilation, castration, and rape.  Most transgender murders are  unprovoked.  Transgender people are between 2-3 times more likely to be  assaulted or murdered than gays and lesbians.  I'm not expecting you to  be respectful of this day.  I will not let it pass by silently.



 Brandon Teena
 Fred Martinez, Jr
 Roberto GonzÃ¡lez Onrubia
 Ruby Ordenana
 Erika Keels
 Sanesha Stewart
 Larry King
 Duanna Johnson
 Angie Zapata
 LaTeisha Green 
 Amanda GonzÃ¡lez-Andujar
 Stacy Blahnik Lee
 Edna Brown
 Tyra Hunter
 Huriell Lockett
 Rhonda Star
 Cynthia Coffman
 Felicia Coffman
 Harvey Aberles
 Jamie Ford
 Jean (Woodrow) Powell
 Anthony Swain
 Derry Glenn
 Quincy Favors Taylor
 Lynn Therrett
 David A. Perez
 Michelle Maree
 Rev. John â€œGypsyâ€ Prowett
 Chanelle Pickett
 Brandon
 Logan Smith
 Robyn Brown
 Maxwell Confait
 Giuseppe Mandanici
 Marsha P. Johnson
 Alan Fitzgerald Walker
 Jae Stevens
 Stella Essie
 Debra Forte
 Jose Angel Osuna
 Mara Duvouw
 John
 Sigfrilda Shantall
 Fitzroy â€œJamaicaâ€ Green
 Luana
 Chanel Chandler
 Rita Hester
 Harold Draper
 Richard Goldman
 Monique Rogers
 Jessy Santiago
 Cameron â€œTinaâ€ Tanner
 Robert Woefel
 Thomas Hall
 Maria â€œLa Conchitaâ€ Palencia
 Rene â€œMichelleâ€ Ouellet
 Tasha Dunn
 Terrie Ladwig
 Chrissey (Marvin) Johnson
 Steven Wilson
 Christian Paige
 Vianna Faye Williams
 Johanna Langer
 Robert H. Jones
 Stacey Estupinian
 Diane Delia
 Marcela
 Lisa Janna Black
 Janice Ricks
 Dianne Aubert
 Deanna Wilkinson
 Larry Laverne Turner
 Karla (JosÃ© Alexis) Barrahona
 Mocha Celis
 Shawn Keegan
 Keooudorn Phothisane
 Castro Nova Estabon
 Gracie (James) Detzler
 Felix Abarca
 Nikki
 Jerrell Williams
 Venus Xtravaganza
 Donald Pierce
 Monique (Rufus) Thomas
 Lauryn Paige
 Carlos â€œTashaâ€ Santiago
 Lazaro Comesana
 Peggy Santiago
 Carmen Marie Montoya
 Rafael Sanchez Ayala
 Jody Susan Ford
 Steve Dwayne Garcia
 Grayce â€œCandaceâ€ Baxter
 Robert Eads
 William Battles
 Anna Francisco
 Lynn Montana
 Patrick Calvert
 Gisele Gagaâ€™
 Tarayon Corbitt
 Stephan â€œStephanieâ€ Chapman
 Ashley-Ann Summers
 Cam (Camilla) Lyman
 Chantal Gillade
 Ernest â€œErnestineâ€ Murray
 Gordon Tuckey
 Regina Haskins
 David F. McLaughlin
 Donnie O. Osby
 Larry Venzant
 Leslie Reâ€™Geanne
 Alanna Kella
 Reynaldo â€œReynaâ€ Sandoval
 Rosando â€œCrystalâ€ Sanchez-Reyes
 Tracy Thompson
 James â€œTatianaâ€ Rivers
 Tara Oâ€™Hara
 Ruby Bota
 Philip Robert Filshie
 Daniel A. Castro
 â€œMidnightâ€
 Christiaan Dâ€™Arcy
 Jacqueline Julita Anderson
 David Edward Wigley
 Emmon Bodfish
 Carol Wright
 Valerie Hill
 Shannon Elroy Clay
 Derrick â€œMiss Tessâ€ Hampton
 Barbara (William) Brodie
 Jean Shelley
 Boushard Fox
 Toni (David) Lowry
 Martine Bohn
 Chiron Collins
 Jonathan â€œTanyaâ€ Streater
 Faustino â€œTinaâ€ Arroyo
 Diane (Anthony Ellsworth) Carter
 Sherri Ransom
 Tianna (Timothy) Langley
 Steven Hernandez
 Samantha York
 Eduardo Lora Vasallio
 Michelle Byrne
 Juaquin Jiminez
 Linda Williams
 Vernon Sivills
 Maurice E. Murray
 Lim Yeow Chuan
 Jessica (Gerardo) Castillo
 Phyllis Olson
 â€œBenderellaâ€
 Cortez Morris
 Clyde Massie
 Terry Wilson
 Charles Albert Lizotte
 Felix Benitez
 Terri Williams Moore
 Jane Golden
 Ramon Baez
 Victor Hugo Castillejos
 Rita Sellers
 Carla Leigh Salazar
 Perry Young
 Vanessa (Barry) Lane
 Rodney D. Neadeau
 Ali Heâ€™shun Forney
 Dion Webster
 Adele Bailey
 Kevin Freeman
 Pfc. Barry Winchell
 Yancey-Lisa R.
 Yamile (Jorge) Lee
 Barbarella
 Kareem Washington
 Barretta Williams
 Marvin Ball
 Chareka Keys
 â€œTinyâ€
 Quona R. Clark
 Tacy Raino Ranta
 Lindsey Alexander
 Toni Lee
 Alina Marie Barragan
 Christine Chappel
 Jill Seidel
 Delores Mack
 Ihok
 Vanesa-Lorena Ledesma
 Curdell James III
 Michelle Lynne Oâ€™Hara
 Carla Natasha Hunt
 Stephanie Yazum
 Toya Charlton
 Andre Vacarro
 Tyra Henderson
 Amanda Milan
 Julie Birchall
 DÃ©jÃ  (Dondre) Johnson
 Astrid La Fontaine
 Dayana
 Keith E. Jackson
 Julia Carrizales
 Beverly Lineth
 Dinh Van Vo
 Brandi Houston
 James Jerome Mack
 Ana Melisa Cortez
 Billy Jean Lavette
 Antonio Johnson
 Francisco Javier Luna
 Robert Martin
 Sissy (Charles) Bolden
 F.C. Martinez, Jr.
 Jamie (James) Jackson
 Loni Okaruru
 Joanne Lillecrapp
 Willie Houston
 Alexandra
 Carlo Enrique Teixeira
 Marzia De Melo Rosa
 Antonio Texera Dos Santos
 Antonia K.
 Terrianne Summers
 Faye Urry
 Bibi Barajas
 Marquita (Martin) Johnson
 Michelle Paz
 Gary â€œBrazonâ€ McMurtry
 Arlene (Hector) Diaz
 Aretha â€œReReâ€ Scott
 Alejandro Ray Lucero
 Della Reeves
 Amy (Raymond) Soos
 â€œWalquiriaâ€
 Paola Matos
 Leonela Valero Parra
 Chris Muzett
 Anjie Milano
 Nicole Lee Anderson
 Deasha
 Ukea Davis
 Raymond Nonato
 Stephanie Thomas
 Victor Pachas
 Pilar (Vladimir)
 IbÃ¡Ã±ez Carrasco
 Sidnei Geber Aguila
 Daniel Phillip
 (â€œDanielleâ€ Redding)
 Raimundo Rocha Alves
 Nguyen Bui Linh
 Ontwon Curtis
 Ediviana Lopez da Cruez
 Joseph Moran
 Porfiro Mejia
 Gwen Araujo
 Roberta Nizah Morris
 Georgina Matehaere
 Timothy â€œCinnamonâ€ Broadus
 Nikki Nicholas
 Danisha Victoria
 Chandini, aka Nazir
 Mimi Young
 Tanesha Starr
 Luciana D. S. Oliveira Mazza
 Tamyra Michaels
 Shelby Tracey Tom
 Ze Galhinha
 Ronald Andrew Brown
 Merlinka
 Amanda JofrÃ©
 Cinnamon (Kendrick) Perry
 Nireah Johnson
 Brandie Coleman
 Ericka (Erick David) YÃ¡Ã±ez
 Jessica Mercado
 Fernanda Covarrubi
 Jorge Rafael Cruz
 Marcelo Cesar Goulart
 Selena Ãlvarez-HernÃ¡ndez
 Bella Evangelista
 Emonie Kiera Spaulding
 Michael Charles Hurd
 â€œAmirilisâ€
 Dayana Valverde
 Rogelio JimÃ©nez Cortez
 Cassandra â€œTulaâ€ Do
 Enrico Taglialatela
 â€œSindyâ€ Cuarda
 Rider Orcero
 Erika Johana
 Lee â€œChinaâ€ Zainal
 Adrian Torres de Assuncao
 Stanley Van Dyke Traylor
 Reshae McCauley
 Mickey Ward-El Smith
 Precious Armani
 Augusto Flores Munoz
 Cedric Thomas
 Pedro Cruz Ramos
 Darryl Fearon
 Gennaro Rizzo
 Tony â€œDeliciousâ€ Green
 LeandroÃŠBispo Estavao
 Rivera Rene
 Divas B
 Joel Robles
 Bella Martinez
 Andre
 Ryan Shey Hoskie
 Penny Port
 Karlien Carstens
 Felicia Moreno
 Alejandra Galicio
 Luana
 Phool Chand Yadav
 C. HernÃ¡ndez
 Eddie Chung Chou Lee
 Timothy Blair, Jr.
 Amancio â€œDelilahâ€ Corrales
 Ashley Nickson
 Robert Binenfeld
 Kasha Blue
 Julio Argueta
 Marisa
 Ronnie Paris, Jr.
 MylÃ¨ne
 Noleen Jansen
 Irene
 Lisa D.
 Christina Smith
 Kaaseem Adalla Juanda
 Donathyn J. Rodgers


 and all the victims not listed.  You are my brothers and sisters, and you are loved and remembered  ~~(@


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## Browder (Nov 20, 2010)

May they all rest in peace, and my God grant the the world their due.


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Murder is good. A simple mechanism of population control at work.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Grendel said:


> Murder is good. A simple mechanism of population control at work.


 
...but they were already not breeding...


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Every three days, a transgender person is  murdered.


 I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that lots people get murdered every day for various reasons so it's not too much of a surprise that a transgendered person is murdered every 3 days apparently.


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## My Boss (Nov 20, 2010)

*Sigh* That's a shame.  People hate things that are different I guess...



> I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that lots people get  murdered every day for various reasons so it's not too much of a  surprise that a transgendered person is murdered every 3 days  apparently.



Yeah, that number of murders is probably a day-to-day occurrence in Detroit.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

I feel obliged to ask if all these names are individuals, or if it's their before and after names, cutting the list in two.


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## Cam (Nov 20, 2010)

I guarantee 75% of them were hookers


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that lots people get murdered every day for various reasons so it's not too much of a surprise that a transgendered person is murdered every 3 days apparently.


 
TG people also comprise maybe 1% of the population, so it makes it somewhat disproportionate.


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> ...but they were already not breeding...


It is still population control. Mandatory sterilization is more difficult to get into law. Murder, on the other hand, is already outlawed and still going strong.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> I feel obliged to ask if all these names are individuals, or if it's their before and after names, cutting the list in two.


 
Individuals.  The source I got the names from had both their chosen names and birth names listed (the latter in parenthesis), but I opted to remove the birth names for obvious reasons.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> ...but they were already not breeding...


 It doesn't need to be for population control. It just needs to decrease population.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Grendel said:


> It is still population control. Mandatory sterilization is more difficult to get into law, murder on the other is already outlawed and still going strong.


 
Please go away


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> TG people also comprise maybe 1% of the population, so it makes it somewhat disproportionate.


 But there are plenty of other minorities too that get slaughtered for bigotry as well. It's nothing new that there are people who are fucked up and will find a reason to kill you. Your OP made it sound like it was supposed to be surprising.

Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating bigotry and murder or anything and am sorry for the people who lost their lives, I just don't think this is a huge deal.


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## Browder (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> I feel obliged to ask if all these names are individuals, or if it's their before and after names, cutting the list in two.


 
Individuals. All or most of them are 'after' names.

Guys let me speak frankly. I know this is a Brace thread about Transgenderism but can't we be compassionate? These people were killed for no reason.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

In before this thread spirals into something wholly disrespectful to the point of it, which is sadly to be expected of it being posted here in the first place.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> TG people also comprise maybe 1% of the population, so it makes it somewhat disproportionate.


 
Actually, the average murder rate per day in the US is 45. Over 3 days, that is 135 people. If one person is Transgender, that means that they are under the average. More to the point, you state "hate crime" but how many are actually verified as hate crime, where someone went out to kill them for being transgendered, and how many are just a case of 'wrong place, wrong time', yet labelled hatecrime regardless because it makes it sound so much worse.



Browder said:


> Guys let me speak frankly. I know this is a Brace  thread about Transgenderism but can't we be compassionate? These people  were killed for no reason.


 
Yeah, it's bad that  people are murdered, but at the same time, there are loads of other groups of people who are murdered who don't get memorial days on the basis that nobody cares or nobody has bothered to escalate it to the point where they need to define it as hatecrime.


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Please go away


This is a public forum, and I have broken no rules.
Besides, millions are murdered each year. Even more die of disease, famine, and drought. Why not mourn for them? Or is it more comforting to mourn for those who more closesly resemble yourself?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

I never understood how people came up with the statistic "Every x seconds/minutes/hours/etc y happens".

It seems pretty arbitrary to me.


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## Xenke (Nov 20, 2010)

RIP


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> Individuals. All or most of them are 'after' names.
> 
> Guys let me speak frankly. I know this is a Brace thread about Transgenderism but can't we be compassionate? These people were killed for no reason.


 They were probably killed for a reason. Most likely it was a really, really stupid reason.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Grendel said:


> Or is it more comforting to mourn for those who more closesly resemble yourself?


 
No one else will mourn for them.  This thread pretty much exemplifies that.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> They were probably killed for a reason. Most likely it was a really, really stupid reason.


 
Otherwise it'd be random killings which is something to be really concerned about.


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## Trichloromethane (Nov 20, 2010)

Shit happens.


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> No one else will mourn for them.  This thread pretty much exemplifies that.


 I don't think anyone is being disrespectful to the dead. I think you're over reacting a little.


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## Conker (Nov 20, 2010)

Wow, that's a lot of names. I guess society does quality work!


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> Actually, the average murder rate per day in the US is 45. Over 3 days, that is 135 people. If one person is Transgender, that means that they are under the average. More to the point, you state "hate crime" but how many are actually verified as hate crime, where someone went out to kill them for being transgendered, and how many are just a case of 'wrong place, wrong time', yet labelled hatecrime regardless because it makes it sound so much worse.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's bad that  people are murdered, but at the same time, there are loads of other groups of people who are murdered who don't get memorial days on the basis that nobody cares or nobody has bothered to escalate it to the point where they need to define it as hatecrime.



The entire point of this isn't just about trans who were killed, but killed and targeted /in/ hate crimes.  I'm sorry not every group of people who are killed for being different get a day.  Does that mean we should ignore and disrespect those who do?  Just a thought.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

When Brazen sees this thread, it's going to go to the deepest layers of hell.

As for the murder victims, anybody being killed for traits which they can't control is tragic.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> No one else will mourn for them.  This thread pretty much exemplifies that.


 What about other people that were killed for random retarded reasons?


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> No one else will mourn for them. This thread pretty much exemplifies that.


No one mourns for the millions who die silently from natural disasters, disease, famine, drought, and war each year. No one else will mourn for them, your point is void. These victims only join a longer list that entails all of humanity.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Trichloromethane said:


> Shit happens.


 
I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "Oops, oh well shit happens" if a person is targeted and murdered for their physical appearance :/


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> What about other people that were killed for random retarded reasons?


 
They still have families
They still have friends
They still have their churches
They still have the respect of their coworkers

In short, they don't need a day.


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## Browder (Nov 20, 2010)

FIne. Damn the statistics. At least ONE person was murdered for being Transgendered and that is far far far more than enough. Since today is a day of remembrance I am going to pay my dues. If you want to debate whether or not the Transgendered are less deserving of acknowledgment than that's your prerogative. At least one person died. People forget that a single life is more than enough to warrant a holiday.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...


And transgendered people don't have any of those things?


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...



Wait, so now transgender people don't have those things?

Why can't a transgender person have friends, family, or religion?


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## Trichloromethane (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "Oops, oh well shit happens" if a person is targeted and murdered for their physical appearance :/


 
People die all the time and is it ever for a good reason?
What about all the people who die because they "looked" at someone funny?

The world is a fucked up place plain and simple.


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## Holsety (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...


lol @ the implication that everyone hates and scorns transgenders


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...


 
God damn it there goes any respect this thread had a possibility of.
_
Seriously Brace!?_

Yeah no one is getting any respect now, that comment was just as fucking asinine and disrespectful as anything that will be said in here. 

I ask that ANYONE reading this thread does not loop ALL trans folk with his sort of close backwards logic of thinking.

Edit: It should also be known that not ALL trans people suffer this, and that many of these trans who died had all the above.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> FIne. Damn the statistics. At least ONE person was murdered for being Transgendered and that is far far far more than enough. Since today is a day of remembrance I am going to pay my dues. If you want to debate whether or not the Transgendered are less deserving of acknowledgment than that's your prerogative. At least one person died. People forget that a single life is more than enough to warrant a holiday.


 We don't have enough days in a year for everyone that died.


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## Conker (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...


 You mean, as soon as someone comes out as a transgendered they lose their family, friends, and respect of coworkers? It's a rule? Wow. I didn't know that.

Or maybe you're just lumping all of that together because you don't have any of those things. But I'm sure it has everything to do with you being a transgendered person and nothing to do with your shitty attitude. Nope. Can't be that.


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...


Why don't we have a day for the Armenian genocide then? Or Darfur? Or Tibet? Or Tiennenmen square? 

Those people don't matter? Those lives are worth less than those of people who are similar to yourself? This is bias, plain and goddamn simple. Every life is equal.

But this again this is thinking on a mass scale, and it is difficult to grasp such horribly numbers of victims that the mind would prefer to linger on those whom most closely resemble ourselves so that we may personalize thier memories with our ideas of them rather than gaze out and think about the untold number of those suffering world wide at this very moment.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> No one else will mourn for them.  This thread pretty much exemplifies that.


 
Bollocks.

Their friends and family will mourn. It's all anyone can expect from life. To underline a certain group or minority just sends the message that that group should be considered more important than other groups. You claim they've been killed in hatecrimes, yet  having things like specific memorial days for them just go and exacerbate the issue.

Who cares what gender people are? IUt boils back down to the same thing as your average flamboyant gay. People can be friends with someone who is homosexual. Usually it's not a problem, unless you're small-minded and actually give a shit about sexuality. The ones that dance around and give themselves squeaky voices to show to everyone they are gay are disliked by a lot of people, and are probably one of the leading reasons people dislike gays. It's being shoved down their throats.

Now, it's not right to murder someone for being transgender, but the same principals apply. Why would people be aware what these people are, unless they are flaunting it? That's when you get people disliking you, and could possibly result in a good ol' fashioned murderin'. Which leads me to the point that chances are, the majority of these victims will have been unlucky enough to cross paths with someone out to kill. Simple as. Then you end up with groups using these victims, connecting dots that aren't there, and flaunting them to further their own propaganda.

Fuck them. Using dead people to forward your cause is disrespectful.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Trichloromethane said:


> People die all the time and is it ever for a good reason?
> What about all the people who die because they "looked" at someone funny?
> 
> The world is a fucked up place plain and simple.


 
Dying and being murdered are two very different things. Both are incredibly tragic, but not both needed to happen. Once could have been wholly prevented. ANYONE who was murdered for ANY stupid reason is incredibly tragic, but it's hardly just one of those 'Ooops oh well shit happens" things.


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## Browder (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> We don't have enough days in a year for everyone that died.


 
No we don't, so we remember while we can. This was brought to my attention so I am going to acknowledge it, briefly pay my respects, then live my principles my hardest in defiance. We're only human.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> I ask that ANYONE reading this thread does not loop ALL trans folk with his sort of close backwards logic of thinking.


 
Nah, Brace has done an excellent job letting us know that other people don't matter outside of his orientation.

Read you loud and clear, good buddy.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> The entire point of this isn't just about trans who were killed, but killed and targeted /in/ hate crimes.  I'm sorry not every group of people who are killed for being different get a day.  Does that mean we should ignore and disrespect those who do?  Just a thought.


 
My major point though, is what defines a hate crime.

Go and grab a kitchen knife. Walk out the house and stab the first person you see. Totally at random.

If it's a straight person, it's terrible, but shit happens.
If it's a Black, Hispanic, Chinese, etc person, it's a racecrime.
If it's a gay or transgender person, it's a hatecrime.

Doesn't matter what the motives are, it's likely to be labelled as something it isn't on the basis that it makes better news headlines and it forms a nice rallying cry to get behind.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Read you loud and clear, good buddy.


 
Ha.  It's funny because good buddy is trucker slang for faggot.


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## Trichloromethane (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> Dying and being murdered are two very different things. Both are incredibly tragic, but not both needed to happen. Once could have been wholly prevented. ANYONE who was murdered for ANY stupid reason is incredibly tragic, but it's hardly just one of those 'Ooops oh well shit happens" things.


 
Right then I'll rephrase it.
_Murder happens_


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> Fuck them. Using dead people to forward your cause is disrespectful.


This is an excellent point as well.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Ha.  It's funny because good buddy is trucker slang for faggot.


 
Okay.  Not what I was going for, but take it as you will to feed your victim complex.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> My major point though, is what defines a hate crime.
> 
> Go and grab a kitchen knife. Walk out the house and stab the first person you see. Totally at random.
> 
> ...



This is largely not about people who happened to be trans and happened to be killed. This is largely about people who were killed for being trans.  To think that all these were just freak accident choices would be nice, but largely false.  I'm talking beaten to death in bathrooms for not having the same junk as everyone else. I'd hardly call issues like that random killings :/


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> Yeah no one is getting any respect now, that comment was just as fucking asinine and disrespectful as anything that will be said in here.


 
You take over then.  Tell me if you have any luck, then maybe I'll believe I'm the problem.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Grendel said:


> This is an excellent point as well.


 
Actually, I would like to amend that to

"Fuck them. Using dead people to forward your cause is disrespectful, unless you're trapped on an island, and you're using the corpses of the other passengers to write a big 'HELP' on the beach."


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## Holsety (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> You take over then.  Tell me if you have any luck, then maybe I'll believe I'm the problem.


 Notice how much better the conversation was in that short period you weren't posting?


yeah


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Holsety said:


> Notice how much better the conversation was in that short period you weren't posting?



uhhh


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## Grendel (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> Actually, I would like to amend that to
> 
> "Fuck them. Using dead people to forward your cause is disrespectful, unless you're trapped on an island, and you're using the corpses of the other passengers to write a big 'HELP' on the beach."



What if you tied the corpses together to make a raft to escape the island? Would it be a hatecrime if the shipwreck victims' whose bodies you are using were gay/bisexual/transgender?


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> This is largely not about people who happened to be trans and happened to be killed. This is largely about people who were killed for being trans.  To think that all these were just freak accident choices would be nice, but largely false.  I'm talking beaten to death in bathrooms for not having the same junk as everyone else. I'd hardly call issues like that random killings :/


 
Yes, but how many of the people on that list are verifiably killed by hatecrime, as stated in the first post, and not just because they had a bit of bad luck when Mr Stabby was out for a walk.

And seriously? If you're in the bathroom, and you're in a position where people can see what you're trying to piss with, you're doing it wrong. If you are male looking and don't have boybits, you shouldn't be dropping your trousers and angling your peehole at the urinals. All other instances, you'd be in the cubicle. This is a stupid analogy.



Grendel said:


> Would it be a hatecrime if the shipwreck victims'  whose bodies you are using were gay/bisexual/transgender?



They'd probably slot together better.

Like rotting Ikea flatpack furniture.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> You take over then.  Tell me if you have any luck, then maybe I'll believe I'm the problem.


 I noticed that you never answered anyone's questions regarding to that statement you made.


----------



## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Now that I've paid my respects, I'm going to go on with my day as any other, not so much as giving an extra thought to the dead trannies.  Just like I do on any other remembrance day.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> You take over then.  Tell me if you have any luck, then maybe I'll believe I'm the problem.


 
Take over what? Nothing needs to be said here.  If I take over then I  will simply make this thread a plee for people to remember the lives of  every day people like you me and everyone in here, who were targeted and  killed for being perceived as different.  That's it.  No fighting no  arguing no nothing, out of respect for the dead.

This should have been merely a reminder of a group of people we have lost for tragic reasons, not a fight for who deserves the most pity.  Using this as a means to say "_Look how tragic my life and future will be, look how badly I'm treated_" Is just god damned disrespectful for those who have been lost. And then to say their deaths deserve more attention and pity than ANYONE ELSE who's been murdered for tragic reasons, well I can't even put into words how even FURTHER disrespectful that is to these trans individuals, and anyone else who has passed.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Actually, to further question the OP, is that list and the remembrance day specific to the US, or is it a worldwide thing?

Cos if it's worldwide, that's a tiny percentage amongst the overall murders. If it's just US, fuck you. Do people not matter unless they're American citizens?


----------



## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> I noticed that you never answered anyone's questions regarding to that statement you made.



I hate trying to talk to you people.  It means giving you credit you've repeatedly shown you don't deserve.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Just throwing this out there, isn't having remembrance days and such for specific groups of people only perpetuate the idea that we're more different than we are all the same?

Perhaps it would be better to do away with these types of celebrations as "national" events in order to curb the interpretation of "Look at us!  We're special and unique and deserving of your attention!"

Out of respect, of course.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> I hate trying to talk to you people.  It means giving you credit you've repeatedly shown you don't deserve.


 
By being so hostile, you only further shit on your cause.


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## Browder (Nov 20, 2010)

FINE.

If none of you can mourn properly because of semantics, go here.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> Take over what? Nothing needs to be said here.  If I take over then I  will simply make this thread a plee for people to remember the lives of  every day people like you me and everyone in here, who were targeted and  killed for being perceived as different.  That's it.  No fighting no  arguing no nothing, out of respect for the dead.
> 
> This should have been merely a reminder of a group of people we have lost for tragic reasons, not a fight for who deserves the most pity.  Using this as a means to say "_Look how tragic my life and future will be, look how badly I'm treated_" Is just god damned disrespectful for those who have been lost. And then to say their deaths deserve more attention and pity than ANYONE ELSE who's been murdered for tragic reasons, well I can't even put into words how even FURTHER disrespectful that is to these trans individuals, and anyone else who has passed.


 
Look, you are getting the second part right. I agree fully. It's your first part that is causing rage. Refer back to my previous post about what consitiutes a hatecrime. People are currently using Part 2 of your post via part 1. The thing is, because it makes a nice controversial statement, how can we tell how many of those listed actually were killed for being different, and how many were just randomly killed then listed as a hatecrime because it makes a much more shocking statistic.

I am questioning the facts and figures here, and strongly suspect it's been skewed to further a specific agenda.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Enwon said:


> By being so hostile, you only further shit on your cause.


 
self-defense.  You didn't come into this thread nuetral.  You came into it with a bad attitude and shat all over the memory of the dead, for what reason I don't know, but that's the nature of it.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> I hate trying to talk to you people.  It means giving you credit you've repeatedly shown you don't deserve.


 Excuse me? You're the one that said that other people don't deserve a day.


----------



## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Just throwing this out there, isn't having remembrance days and such for specific groups of people only perpetuate the idea that we're more different than we are all the same?
> 
> Perhaps it would be better to do away with these types of celebrations as "national" events in order to curb the interpretation of "Look at us!  We're special and unique and deserving of your attention!"
> 
> Out of respect, of course.


 
Yes, yes it does. As does Braces fighting for their deaths to have more value than others who were murdered.  It's part of why it pisses me off so much.  They were just people like any one of us who happened to be targeted based on the perception of difference, and it's all good to mourn for them, but it does them no good when their allies push just as hard to make sure everyone knows they're apparently different.


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> I hate trying to talk to you people.  It means giving you credit you've repeatedly shown you don't deserve.


 When people say this thread was better without you this is exactly what they mean. All you're doing is disrespecting the dead for pity, over exaggerating things to make yourself seem like a tragic victim for more attention, and being an ass to people that disagree with you.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> FINE.
> 
> If none of you can mourn properly because of semantics, go here.


 We can mourn for the dead. It's when Brace shows that people she relates to are more worthy of mourning than others is what we have issues with.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> self-defense


 
I go down the street and chop off someone's head with an ax because he glances my way.  Self-defense.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> Excuse me? You're the one that said that other people don't deserve a day.


 
Because they're already mourned.  They deserve to be mourned, but they already are.  They don't need a day for it.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> Yes, yes it does. As does Braces fighting for their deaths to have more value than others who were murdered.  It's part of why it pisses me off so much.  They were just people like any one of us who happened to be targeted based on the perception of difference, and it's all good to mourn for them, but it does them no good when their allies push just as hard to make sure everyone knows they're apparently different.


 
Oh, for fuck sake.

Were they really? Sure, one or two were, but I'm willing to bet the majority were not targetted at all. There are no facts or figures. All we have is a list and we are told that these people died due to bigotry and we should mourn and be angry about it, without actually having evidence of that.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> When people say this thread was better without you this is exactly what they mean. All you're doing is disrespecting the dead for pity, over exaggerating things to make yourself seem like a tragic victim for more attention, and being an ass to people that disagree with you.


 
I wasn't the one that made this about me.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> Look, you are getting the second part right. I agree fully. It's your first part that is causing rage. Refer back to my previous post about what consitiutes a hatecrime. People are currently using Part 2 of your post via part 1. The thing is, because it makes a nice controversial statement, how can we tell how many of those listed actually were killed for being different, and how many were just randomly killed then listed as a hatecrime because it makes a much more shocking statistic.
> 
> I am questioning the facts and figures here, and strongly suspect it's been skewed to further a specific agenda.


 
I'm sorry to say that I don't have the facts and figures on paper for you, I didn't make this post.  You would need to ask Brace where she is getting everything from here, I was going off of hate crime incidents that I knew about, thus the one example I gave which is a sadly common one.  Also on the example I gave, it's not always people being able to see their junk, as the people getting outed and then other people freak out and think their going into those bathrooms for sexual reason, or even just freaking out on them being different.

But as I said, I don't know where brace got the list, you would have to ask her.


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Because they're already mourned.  They deserve to be mourned, but they already are.  They don't need a day for it.


 But so were the people on your list? Their deaths were also mourned. By your logic they don't need a day either.


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## Browder (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> We can mourn for the dead. It's when Brace shows that people she relates to are more worthy of mourning than others is what we have issues with.


 
Oh no, I got that and personally I agree. I just didn't want to sling shit in a thread that is suppose to pay respect to the dead. 

But since this thread is fucked because OP is a prick (even if she's well intentioned), I've made an all encompassing thread. If you want to mourn someone, do it here. Every death matters.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> But so were the people on your list? Their deaths were also mourned. By your logic they don't need a day either.


 
Are you really this naive?


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Because they're already mourned.  They deserve to be mourned, but they already are.  They don't need a day for it.


 
Seriously?
Yes, you are absolutely right. Everyone hates transgenders so much. We have packs of people checking down everyones trousers for transgenders, ready to beat them to death and then kill thier fmailies and friends so absolutely nobody can mourn the poor, poor transgender.

Fuck off.

Fuck right off.

They still have people to mourn, just like everybody else, so stop with your self-pitying "nobody wuvs us transgenders" shite.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Are you really this naive?


 Are you? You honestly think that no transgender person has friends, family, coworkers, or religious people to back them?


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Are you really this naive?


 Are you?

No, seriously.

This is insane.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

I love how it took less than an hour for this thread to go to hell.


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## Holsety (Nov 20, 2010)

quick someone here get a gender change so we can all still be super best friends and prove brace wrong


i nominate smelge


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> Are you? You honestly think that no transgender person has friends, family, coworkers, or religious people to back them?


 
Fewer do.  Not everything has to be in absolute terms.  Try to think, please


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Fewer do.  Not everything has to be in absolute terms.  Try to think, please


 
You should try thinking first before telling others to do so.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> But as I said, I don't know where brace got the list, you would have to ask her.


 
I'm not sure you'd get anywhere with that outside of a transgender support site that doesn't list its source.

Oddly enough, the FBI doesn't list transgender in it's annual list of reported hate crime victims, so I don't know where his statistics would be coming from.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Enwon said:


> You should try thinking first before telling others to do so.


 
Coming to different conclusions from people who have no experience with the subject and who are openly hostile to opposing perspectives on the subject doesn't mean I haven't thought about it.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Fewer do.  Not everything has to be in absolute terms.  Try to think, please


 It doesn't fucking matter. The point is that they still do. Other people may not have friends/family/coworkers for whatever reason. Yet, oh, they don't matter because they're not trannies.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Oddly enough, the FBI doesn't list transgender in it's annual list of reported hate crime victims


 
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Yes.  Because that certainly reflects a society in which transgender people are equal to others.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Are you really this naive?


 
Are YOU that naive? This is now the 12th year running of people mourning these people, TENS OF THOUSANDS of people have been mourning these victims for over 10 years now. That's a fuck ton more than just you're average forgotten murder victim.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> I'm sorry to say that I don't have the facts and figures on paper for you, I didn't make this post.  You would need to ask Brace where she is getting everything from here, I was going off of hate crime incidents that I knew about, thus the one example I gave which is a sadly common one.  Also on the example I gave, it's not always people being able to see their junk, as the people getting outed and then other people freak out and think their going into those bathrooms for sexual reason, or even just freaking out on them being different.
> 
> But as I said, I don't know where brace got the list, you would have to ask her.



I am basing my viewpoint on the fact that the list will have come from a pro-transgender organisation, or from someone who wants to push the transgender cause. Which incidentally is not something that needs to be done. So what? Who cares who or what they are or think they are? They are still people. Yet you'll end up with someone coming up with facts and figures to push their cause, and this whole thing stinks of that. That is why I have no qualms about shitflinging, as Browder put it, in this thread.

Browders thread is fine and good. There's nobody telling us we should be remembering people who we are told must have been killed for what they are. There's no implications that people of a different sexuality or gender deserve more remembrance than boring old ordinary people. There's no facts and figures with no verifiable source. To me, this thread here defines the worst of transgender, gay, whatever causes.

"We are different. Love us. We are better than you. If you don't love us, you are a bigot."

And Brace's attitude and actions do nothing but justify that line of thinking. This thread is disrespectful right from the first word. It's pushing an agenda using a line of corpses. It is irredeemable, and through it all, Brace does nothing but dig the hole deeper.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Going crazy batshit and shitting all over my thread about remembering dead transgenders by trying to paint myself as a victim doesn't mean I haven't thought about it.


 
Fix'd.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> It doesn't fucking matter. The point is that they still do. Other people may not have friends/family/coworkers for whatever reason. Yet, oh, they don't matter because they're not trannies.


 
If they don't it's overwhelmingly their own damn fault, is the difference.  And, oh geeze, I'm sorry I didn't realize bigotry had to apply to 100% of a demographic to be real.  I retract everything I've said =/


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## Conker (Nov 20, 2010)

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwaneDI6Z1qzcspxo1_500.jpg

Seems to apply.



			
				Brace said:
			
		

> If they don't it's overwhelmingly their own damn fault, is the  difference.  And, oh geeze, I'm sorry I didn't realize bigotry had to  apply to 100% of a demographic to be real.  I retract everything I've  said =/


The same applies to TG's. If they have no one to mourn for them it's their own fucking fault. Most people DO NOT CARE about gender shit. It's the 21st century. If you die and no one mourns you, it's because you were a fucking asshole and don't deserve to be mourned.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
> 
> Yes.  Because that certainly reflects a society in which transgender people are equal to others.


 
Or it could mean that there aren't as many hate crimes fueled by transgender hate as you are suggesting that it would be a relevant statistic.

Jumping to conclusions again to make us feel sorry for you.

But I ask you to defend your point by providing us some credible sauce as to hate crimes fueled by transgender hate that have been proven by police/courts.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> If they don't it's overwhelmingly their own damn fault, is the difference.  And, oh geeze, I'm sorry I didn't realize bigotry had to apply to 100% of a demographic to be real.  I retract everything I've said =/


 Right, kids being put up in foster care and murdered at some point is their own damn fault.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Jumping to conclusions again to make us feel sorry for you.


 
I don't employ non-working strategies.  From that it follows that my motives aren't as you describe.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> I don't employ non-working strategies.  From that it follows that my motives aren't as you describe.


 
I notice that you've avoided answering pretty much every single decent question and just gone for the "OMG HATURZ" angle. Could this possibly because actually answering some of the points and issues would show how much bullshit is being spouted in here?


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> If they don't it's overwhelmingly their own damn fault, is the difference.  And, oh geeze, I'm sorry I didn't realize bigotry had to apply to 100% of a demographic to be real.  I retract everything I've said =/


 
Has it occurred to you yet that you yourself are a bigot?  Seriously do you listen to yourself talk? You're a case and point why people think people become trans just for attention, or to further their victim complex.

You've shown yourself to prejudice against ANYONE not trans, or even trans who so much as disagree with you're high and mighty "IM THE VICTIM YOU HATE ME I DECIDED SO" complex.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> I don't employ non-working strategies.  From that it follows that my motives aren't as you describe.


 
Sure, because raping logic works, right?  Because implying that this is all about you, and that your group is more important than others works, right?

Please, for God's sake, tell me all trannies aren't like this.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> But I ask you to defend your point by providing us some credible sauce as to hate crimes fueled by transgender hate that have been proven by police/courts.


 
"Transgender" isn't even recognized as a specific status in most jurisdictions.  It is not a protected class.  In the rare cases were transgender murders or assaults are prosecuted as hate crimes, they are done so under the banner of anti-gay hate crimes.  This is what made the Angie Zapata case so unique.  She was the first case in the nation to get a conviction for a hate crime involving a transgender victim.  How long ago was that, now?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> "Transgender" isn't even recognized as a specific status in most jurisdictions.  It is not a protected class.  In the rare cases were transgender murders or assaults are prosecuted as hate crimes, they are done so under the banner of anti-gay hate crimes.  This is what made the Angie Zapata case so unique.  She was the first case in the nation to get a conviction for a hate crime involving a transgender victim.  How long ago was that, now?


 
Then I ask you how you came to the statistic "Every 3 days a transgender person is murdered."


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> Has it occurred to you yet that you yourself are a bigot?  Seriously do you listen to yourself talk? You're a case and point why people think people become trans just for attention, or to further their victim complex.
> 
> You've shown yourself to prejudice against ANYONE not trans, or even trans who so much as disagree with you're high and mighty "IM THE VICTIM YOU HATE ME I DECIDED SO" complex.


 This post so hard I could fuck it.


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## Chronidu (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> I am basing my viewpoint on the fact that the list will have come from a pro-transgender organisation, or from someone who wants to push the transgender cause. Which incidentally is not something that needs to be done. So what? Who cares who or what they are or think they are? They are still people. Yet you'll end up with someone coming up with facts and figures to push their cause, and this whole thing stinks of that. That is why I have no qualms about shitflinging, as Browder put it, in this thread.
> 
> Browders thread is fine and good. There's nobody telling us we should be remembering people who we are told must have been killed for what they are. There's no implications that people of a different sexuality or gender deserve more remembrance than boring old ordinary people. There's no facts and figures with no verifiable source. To me, this thread here defines the worst of transgender, gay, whatever causes.
> 
> ...


 
No worries I understand where you are coming from. I will concede my argument until I can fine definitive proof otherwise.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Enwon said:


> Sure, because raping logic works, right?  Because implying that this is all about you, and that your group is more important than others works, right?



To repeat, I didn't make this about me.  You did.  You did, to avoid GIVING A FUCK.


----------



## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> To repeat, I didn't make this about me.  You did.  You did, to avoid GIVING A FUCK.


 We give a shit about people dying. It's you that decided they were more important than others. Stop with the victim complex already. It's sickening.


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## Conker (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> To repeat, I didn't make this about me.  You did.  You did, to avoid GIVING A FUCK.


 I demand to be placed in the "wouldn't have given a fuck either way" group.


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## Enwon (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> To repeat, I didn't make this about me.  You did.  You did, to avoid GIVING A FUCK.


 
You were the one who made this little gem of a post, not us:



Brace said:


> They still have families
> They still have friends
> They still have their churches
> They still have the respect of their coworkers
> ...


 
And when people asked questions about your post, you didn't answer.

This is not us trying to avoid giving a fuck.  I already gave my fuck.  Now you're only hurting your own cause.


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> To repeat, I didn't make this about me.  You did.  You did, to avoid GIVING A FUCK.


 You did make it about you by going from "let us mourn the loss of these people" to "FUCK YOU YOU GUYS ARE ALL HATERS AND I KNOW IT" just because some people pointed things out.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Then I ask you how you came to the statistic "Every 3 days a transgender person is murdered."


 
Source of statistic:

http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf

Source of list:

http://www.gender.org/remember/about/core.html


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> We give a shit about people dying. It's you that decided they were more important than others. Stop with the victim complex already. It's sickening.


 
I didn't.  I said that others were already mourned.  PERIOD.  READ.  READ.  FUCKING READ.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> To repeat, I didn't make this about me.  You did.  You did, to avoid GIVING A FUCK.


 
Wrong. We give a fuck.

We give a fuck about how you're intent on proving how much better transgenders are than regular people. We give a fuck about how your cause is raping the memory of the dead. We give a fuck about you decrying bogotry, while fully supporting it when it's going in the other direction. We give a fuck about how much poor taste is in the OP, and the use of dead people as leverage in a war of words.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Enwon said:


> And when people asked questions about your post, you didn't answer.



Whenever I say anything it's misunderstood and used against me, so I considered shutting up and seeing if this thread sorted itself out.  It didn't.  Not surprised.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> Right, kids being put up in foster care and murdered at some point is their own damn fault.


 
*clears throat expectantly*


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> I didn't.  I said that others were already mourned.  PERIOD.  READ.  READ.  FUCKING READ.


 And they were mourned as well. PERIOD. READ. READ. FUCKING. READ.


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## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> Source of statistic:
> 
> http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf
> 
> ...


 
Both of which are trangender sites. So there's no way that either one could be biased and be claiming perfectly acceptable murders as Hatecrimes.



Brace said:


> Whenever I say anything it's misunderstood and used  against me, so I considered shutting up and seeing if this thread  sorted itself out.  It didn't.  Not surprised.


 
It didn't sort itself out because you didn't shut up.


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> And they were mourned as well.



This is your uncritical assumption.


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## Mentova (Nov 20, 2010)

I just can't believe what this thread turned into. I mean seriously. This is just insane.


----------



## Mayfurr (Nov 20, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I never understood how people came up with the statistic "Every x seconds/minutes/hours/etc y happens".
> 
> It seems pretty arbitrary to me.


 
"Every six minutes a man gets knocked over on a pedestrian crossing."

"He must be getting really sick of it by now!"


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## Brace (Nov 20, 2010)

Smelge said:


> Both of which are trangender sites. So there's no way that either one could be biased and be claiming *perfectly acceptable murders* as Hatecrimes.


 
Perhaps only TG websites report TG murders because TG people are substantially more likely than general society to give a shit about TG murders.


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## Aleu (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> This is your uncritical assumption.


 And your assumption is that no one cares about trannies.


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## Nylak (Nov 20, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> I just can't believe what this thread turned into. I mean seriously. This is just insane.


 
I agree. I think this has gotten bad enough.

Personal conclusions: Everyone hates trannies who think everyone hates them.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 20, 2010)

Brace said:


> This is your uncritical assumption. This is


 
You say that people are thinking in absolutes. What the hell are you doing?

Transgender people get mourned just as much as regular people. Again, this is just a case of you saying shit to garner the sympathy vote, whether it's for yourself or your cause.


----------

