# The theme of this thread is theme.



## foozzzball (Aug 1, 2009)

Literary theme is an overused and well abused term.

On the one hand it's meant to be a unifying aspect of the work, something that ties it all together - but often this is inclusive of things like atmosphere and premise, stylistic tricks used repeatedly, patterns in the plot.

It's a complex melange - your thoughts on this overcomplicated topic?


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## Takun (Aug 1, 2009)

I would think that's confusing literary theme and literary devices.


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## foozzzball (Aug 1, 2009)

Devices build up to form a component of theme, theme dictates which devices are useful. It's a vicious circle.


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 1, 2009)

Now, see, I always thought theme was just the fundamental message behind a work.  You use devices to get that theme to come out, but theme is still theme.  Like, Moby Dick's theme is obsession (or something like that... I've never read it), the theme of The Catcher in the Rye is something about phony people versus real people, etc.
But anyway, 'theme', if you go with my definition, is one of those things that people expect in a great work, but that really doesn't belong anywhere else, I think.  It's absolutely possible to write a work without an underlying theme.  And really, people seem to prefer these kinds of works.  That's what makes up the bulk of popular fiction.
When you try putting in a theme, though, it's real easy to have it come out sounding pretentious.  What Stephen King recommends (and I happen to agree with him) is that you don't write a work with a particular theme in mind, but rather, when going over a work you've written, you should look and see if it has a theme.  If so, you expand on it, fit it more closely into the narrative, help it enhance the work.  If not, big f-ing deal; it's fine as is.
But I know I've read a lot of crap where the author obviously had some purpose in mind when writing the work, to get some message across, and it comes out sounding awfully preachy.  Like, the characters end up giving a bloody speech on the subject, or something like that.  This is something you really want to avoid, because even if you have some great message, it loses all effectiveness if you just plaster it all over the work in the most obvious ways possible.  If anyone's ever read The Sword of Truth series, you'll know what I'm talking about.  Subtlety is very important when talking about theme.
But that's assuming you have a theme.  You really don't need one.  And really, I've discovered that if you try to give a work a theme, 90% of the people who read the work will not get it, or will give it their own theme that's completely different than the one you imagined.  Which is all right, but it's something to consider.

That's about all I have to say on the subject.


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## Tiarhlu (Aug 1, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> When you try putting in a theme, though, it's real easy to have it come out sounding pretentious.  What Stephen King recommends (and I happen to agree with him) is that you don't write a work with a particular theme in mind, but rather, when going over a work you've written, you should look and see if it has a theme.  If so, you expand on it, fit it more closely into the narrative, help it enhance the work.  If not, big f-ing deal; it's fine as is.



Yeah, this. This is actually something I'm trying to do with a current story. While near the end of it, I did start to notice a theme growing out of it. It's become important to all three main characters' motivations, and actually helped give me an idea on how to bring it all together at the end.


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## panzergulo (Aug 2, 2009)

Theme, moral, message, motive... I think these are words you use when you want to sound fancy. And their meanings have become confused with each other. Heck, I think "moral" and "message" are the same thing, just used in relation with stories of different genres. Also, "genre" is a damn confusing word... sometimes it refers to length, like "short story" or "novel", sometimes to style. They talk about "furry sub-genre". Should be "furry pseudo-genre", if you ask me. Or "animal fable". Which often had morals.

And I'm not even English native. Think about how confusing this is to me. And yeah, must agree with MLR. That's pretty much what I had in my mind too. I never think about themes when I write. Morals, sometimes... or messages. But I always try to avoid excessive pathos. A moral is best told when it's short, to-the-point and violent.


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## nybx4life (Aug 2, 2009)

Isn't genre just a category of a whole section?
Well either way, I think MLR put it right. If it has it, it has it. If not, don't worry about it.

But, as I like to put complicated topics, keep the damn thing simple unless it can only be understood when complex (most likely then it'll barely be understood).


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