# About the age rule



## silkenpaws (Jul 12, 2007)

There was that thread I just saw in which the 16 year old blew his cover and got his account locked.. but I mean.. what about the dozens of artists I see who are plainly (stated on their profile) under 18, yet are the contributers of adult material? 

Surely the mods have seen this, yes? Is there a 'let it slide' policy here? Honestly, I'd be in favor of it. I guess I feel kinda bad for the sixteen year old since I've been coming here since I was 15. (Now 18 )


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## codewolf (Jul 12, 2007)

silkenpaws said:
			
		

> There was that thread I just saw in which the 16 year old blew his cover and got his account locked.. but I mean.. what about the dozens of artists I see who are plainly (stated on their profile) under 18, yet are the contributers of adult material?
> 
> Surely the mods have seen this, yes? Is there a 'let it slide' policy here? Honestly, I'd be in favor of it. I guess I feel kinda bad for the sixteen year old since I've been coming here since I was 15. (Now 18 )



the thing is, admins dont have eyes everywhere, so its up to us users to report violations of the TOS and AUP, also note that even if you re under 18 you are allowed to upload adult art but not view it


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## uncia (Jul 12, 2007)

codewolf said:
			
		

> the thing is, admins dont have eyes everywhere, so its up to us users to report violations of the TOS and AUP, also note that even if you re under 18 you are allowed to upload adult art but not view it



Nah, it's the work of a few minutes to produce a comprehensive list of every FA community member with a stated numeric age "under 18" who has +fav'd mature/adult content.
Just to get that clear, anyhow... 

d.

(ed.: or produced, of course)


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## codewolf (Jul 12, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> codewolf said:
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mental note to self....double-check facts before posting them.....


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## uncia (Jul 12, 2007)

codewolf said:
			
		

> mental note to self....double-check facts before posting them.....



Hey, I thought you were da codewolf. 
_*tailhugs*_ ;>


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## Damaratus (Jul 12, 2007)

silkenpaws said:
			
		

> There was that thread I just saw in which the 16 year old blew his cover and got his account locked.. but I mean.. what about the dozens of artists I see who are plainly (stated on their profile) under 18, yet are the contributers of adult material?
> 
> Surely the mods have seen this, yes? Is there a 'let it slide' policy here? Honestly, I'd be in favor of it. I guess I feel kinda bad for the sixteen year old since I've been coming here since I was 15. (Now 18 )



There's no "let it slide" policy.  It's more a matter of time to cover things.  With every case of an underage user there is normally some kind of investigation prior to locking them out of being able to view mature works.  This is mainly because there are some people who just happen to put random numbers into the age box (something which will eventually be fixed so that it can't be done).  

Each search can take some time to be finished, and therefore it takes a bit longer than preferred to actually complete the lockout of a user who is underage.

If a user goes and admits that they are underage, they forgo the necessity for an investigation and therefore the lock was placed without any further discussion.


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## codewolf (Jul 12, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> Hey, I thought you were da codewolf.


lol methinks we just found the reason my programs dont work


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## DarkMeW (Jul 12, 2007)

Damaratus said:
			
		

> There's no "let it slide" policy.Â Â It's more a matter of time to cover things.Â Â With every case of an underage user there is normally some kind of investigation prior to locking them out of being able to view mature works.Â Â This is mainly because there are some people who just happen to put random numbers into the age box (something which will eventually be fixed so that it can't be done).Â Â



Having it automatically block adult content if the age is under 18 (such as putting in a required birth date) would help elevate a lot of this problem. I however would miss being able to type in 'dirt' in the age box of my profile. Given the nature of FA's main site, that fix sounds like a great future feature to the site.


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## uncia (Jul 12, 2007)

codewolf said:
			
		

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*chuckles*. Been there, done that.
Dun worry, it gets easier after 30 years or so. _*jk*_ 



			
				DarkMeW said:
			
		

> Having it automatically block adult content if the age is under 18 (such as putting in a required birth date) would help elevate a lot of this problem. I however would miss being able to type in 'dirt' in the age box of my profile. Given the nature of FA's main site, that fix sounds like a great future feature to the site.



*nods*. Many previous discussions on that, unifying the date field so as to avoid any potential confusion (e.g. for people who /do/ state their primary fursona's age), etc., vs. waiting for similar in Ferrox.
Still on hold, afaik.


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## Damaratus (Jul 12, 2007)

DarkMeW said:
			
		

> Having it automatically block adult content if the age is under 18 (such as putting in a required birth date) would help elevate a lot of this problem. I however would miss being able to type in 'dirt' in the age box of my profile. Given the nature of FA's main site, that fix sounds like a great future feature to the site.



*nods* There are a good number of ways to fix this issue, but it is one that will have to be taken care of by the coders.  Alas, that is not my forte.


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## net-cat (Jul 12, 2007)

I like the way most forum software handles the age issue:


```
Please enter your birthday (mandatory): ____

( ) Display age and birthday in profile.
( ) Display only age in profile.
( ) Display only birthday in profile. (Exclude the year.)
( ) Do not display age or birthday in profile.
```

That's the age you use for determining mature access or not. (It doesn't keep people from outright lying, though.)

Then people can enter whatever they want into the character profile.


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## Rhainor (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that's already in place, net-cat, as I've seen (on more than one occasion) one of the admins post a list of users whose calculated age (based on birthdate entered) does not match the manually entered age.


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## net-cat (Jul 13, 2007)

Yeah, that's been my observation. But we don't have the "show birthday/age" options.


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## foxystallion (Jul 17, 2007)

For privacy reasons,  I don't want to give my exact age in my profile.  There is probably exactly one aerospace physicist, rocket scientist, biotechnologist, psychologist, and rancher who is exactly N years old, and knowing N would be useful in commencing an identity search.  I would,  however,  like to be able to give an approximation of how old I am.  For example, if the "age" data entry box were long enough, I'd say "Helped put men on the moon."  

How about it, coders?  I realize that this is low priority, but it should be extremely simple - probably just the line length number in one line of code.


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## TakeWalker (Jul 17, 2007)

...Wouldn't it be easier to include your age and not mention every one of your occupations? Or is this germaine to your submissions?


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## Janglur (Jul 17, 2007)

Or post a false age.  Or just choose the 'not dumb' route and neglect to tell them you're a 56 year old astrophysicist that worked on the apollo missions.


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## brokenfox (Jul 17, 2007)

foxystallion said:
			
		

> For privacy reasons,Â Â I don't want to give my exact age in my profile.Â Â There is probably exactly one aerospace physicist, rocket scientist, biotechnologist, psychologist, and rancher who is exactly N years old, and knowing N would be useful in commencing an identity search.Â Â I would,Â Â however,Â Â like to be able to give an approximation of how old I am.Â Â For example, if the "age" data entry box were long enough, I'd say "Helped put men on the moon."Â Â
> 
> How about it, coders?Â Â I realize that this is low priority, but it should be extremely simple - probably just the line length number in one line of code.



Who would find you here anyways? Other then furrys, and nobody is going to go throuhg the trouble to peice together a bunch of obscure information to find you your identity. And if you have an outside source trying to find out your identity they will not be here trying to figure out the identity of a site full of furrys on the off chance that you might be here....


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## foxystallion (Jul 18, 2007)

TakeWalker said:
			
		

> ...Wouldn't it be easier to include your age and not mention every one of your occupations? Or is this germaine to your submissions?



Most of my art has a both a theme and contains truthful information directly based on my professions.  

For example, when I describe the psychological manipulation that I used on my bulls to establish myself as the alpha critter in my cattle herd (so that I can walk safely among them with no danger  of an attack - these are aggressive wild open range beef cattle, not tame milk cows), I prefer that viewers and readers appreciate that this is fact, not fiction:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/403828/
Ditto for my comments on the sociobiology and behavior of coyotes that that accompanies these submissions:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/567028/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/580476/

My professional expertise in biology lends credibility to the truthful information that I provide with this submission regarding ongoing research using human/sheep, human/pig, and human/mouse chimeras - and the ethics committee mandated killing of those that are "too" human - the first furrys already exist:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/495166/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/495408/
It is time to start thinking about the long term consequences.  You will probably live to see the day when you can buy a dog that can play a decent game of checkers - or even talk. I highly recommend an extremely furry, very funny, highly imaginative SF book called "Gun, With Occasional Music," available used for a few bucks on Amazon.  A furry future is coming far faster than you realize.

Finally, there is real physics in this series, especially the fourth episode where the inevitable time travel consequences of faster than light travel are explained as well as used as a plot element:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/503937/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/444535/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/463497/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/484258/


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## foxystallion (Jul 18, 2007)

Janglur said:
			
		

> Or post a false age.  Or just choose the 'not dumb' route and neglect to tell them you're a 56 year old astrophysicist that worked on the apollo missions.



I'd rather not state a false age because it is a violation of the TOS.  I have a penchant for pointedly discussing absurd results that derive from poorly thought out rules, as you may have noticed in my acerbic comments on the new AUP photomorph rules.  If one is going to do this sort of thing - especially if one wants their objections to be taken seriously - one would be wise to avoid violating FA's rules.  

In all fairness, I must add that I haven't been threatened by FA's admins.  On the contrary, I'm now in communication with them on this subject, they have given all my objections serious consideration, and new photomorph rules will soon be announced.  I have seen the proposed new rules, and, in my opinion, they are excellent!


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## Leahtaur (Jul 18, 2007)

I think that what Janglur perhaps meant was to post your real age in the "internal" age field that only admins can see, and in the public one, post a fake one or none at all. The public one is optional, and it's not a violation to put nothing.


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## foxystallion (Jul 19, 2007)

Leahtaur said:
			
		

> I think that what Janglur perhaps meant was to post your real age in the "internal" age field that only admins can see, and in the public one, post a fake one or none at all. The public one is optional, and it's not a violation to put nothing.



Thank you.


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## greg-the-fox (Jul 24, 2007)

I decided that I wouldn't lie about my age since I'm turning 18 in 5 months anyway.


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## Eevee (Jul 25, 2007)

Or you could, you know, toss the age rule.


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## v-deus (Jul 25, 2007)

I don't think the 18 rule applies to all regions. I mean, there's no way in Hell (or Holland) that it's consistently 18 for every country.

Is FA setting down the 18 rule, regardless?


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

v-deus said:
			
		

> Is FA setting down the 18 rule, regardless?



Yes.


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## webkilla (Jul 25, 2007)

i shouldn't be that hard to add a line of code that sends an error message to anyone putting a number beneath 18 into the age box... plus a friendly reminder of the ToS


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## Eevee (Jul 25, 2007)

v-deus said:
			
		

> I don't think the 18 rule applies to all regions. I mean, there's no way in Hell (or Holland) that it's consistently 18 for every country.


I'm not aware of any legal requirement in the US to make legitimate users jump through hoops (and minors lie) to view porn; the CDA and COPA each used to require it, but both were struck down for First Amendment reasons.

Thus it must be arbitrary and other regions don't really matter.  I don't think there have been many successful lawsuits against sites held in other countries, anyway.



			
				webkilla said:
			
		

> i shouldn't be that hard to add a line of code that sends an error message to anyone putting a number beneath 18 into the age box... plus a friendly reminder of the ToS


And then..  minors will claim to be 18.  How does that help anything?


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## garra (Jul 26, 2007)

Eevee said:
			
		

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Wasn't this sort of protection used as disclaimer? That'd explain why theres an age check on every page about an alcoholic beverage p.e.


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## Eevee (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm not really sure what the point of a disclaimer is, either, since FA is not obligated to keep minors out and "you agree not to" is useless against a minor.


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## bane_of_existance (Jul 26, 2007)

Eevee, it isn't like they make you check your age on every page. You just have to once. And it's better that they have the rule, because it can at least tell people not interested in porn or 18+ images that they're on here. I know a few people who have the settings to filter out adult content since that's not why they use the site. Plus, there's always stupid kids who can't find the control panel. 

I know, I sounded stupid and rant-y. bear with me.


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## yak (Jul 26, 2007)

v-deus said:
			
		

> Is FA setting down the 18 rule, regardless?


Yes.


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## Rhainor (Jul 26, 2007)

It's a matter of legality and accountability.  The server is in the United States, so it's subject to US laws.  In the US, it's illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to view pornographic material, so FurAffinity users are required to enter their date of birth upon registration.  If the admins learn of someone whose calculated age is less than 18 who is viewing mature stuff, they lock down that user's ability to view mature stuff.  If a user enters a false birthdate in that field, then (IIRC) FA is not responsible (at least not immediately) for the actions of that user -- although I'm sure the admins would take some sort of action if they learned of someone who'd used a false birthdate to evade the age restriction.

Admins, feel free to correct me on anything in that that's wrong.


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## foxystallion (Jul 26, 2007)

Rhainor said:
			
		

> It's a matter of legality and accountability.  The server is in the United States, so it's subject to US laws.  In the US, it's illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to view pornographic material...



For those who think that FA is being too prissy about the age 18 rule:
A 17 year old was recently convicted in federal court of felony violation of this law.  He and his 17 year old girlfriend had sex - perfectly legally since they were of the age of consent in the state where this happened - and they photographed their yiffery.  One of them then sent the other an email with the photos attached, at the request of that party.  The minimum sentence is years long, and there is no possibility of parole or probation.   I have an ancestor who was crushed to death for being a witch in Salem Massachusetts over 300 years ago.  Things haven't changed as much as I would like...


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## DarkMeW (Jul 26, 2007)

foxystallion said:
			
		

> The minimum sentence is years long, and there is no possibility of parole or probation.   I have an ancestor who was crushed to death for being a witch in Salem Massachusetts over 300 years ago.  Things haven't changed as much as I would like...



I think there is a far cry difference of being killed by essentially what accounted to mob rules and spending a year in county jail because they sent photos of underage people having sex. I'd also question your interpretation of that case since there obviously had to be more to it (the recent case.)


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## foxystallion (Jul 26, 2007)

DarkMeW said:
			
		

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My ancestor was legally murdered by careful application of the judicial process - it was not a murder by mob rule.  The trial was legal and the sentence as lawful as that of the 17 year old kid.  That is the great shame of it.

It isn't a year in the county jail, either.  It is years in a federal prison, and a permanent record as a federal sex offender - and quite possibly aids via prison rape committed by violent older and much stronger inmates who richly deserve to be there.

No there wasn't any more to it.  And if you had read the federal judges decision, as I did, you might agree with me that that judge deserves die by natural causes - preferably very painfully, as by bone cancer.  Both he and those who made the law are truly evil.


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## Wesha (Jul 26, 2007)

foxystallion said:
			
		

> And if you had read the federal judges decision, as I did, you might agree with me that that judge deserves die by natural causes - preferably very painfully, as by bone cancer.  Both he and those who made the law are truly evil.


+1.


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## Eevee (Jul 26, 2007)

bane_of_existance said:
			
		

> Eevee, it isn't like they make you check your age on every page. You just have to once.


I'm more annoyed that:
1. if my cookie expires or I log on elsewhere, I can't view direct links to an adult image.
2. I've known at least one seventeen-and-a-half-year-old artist who was blocked from seeing her own art.
3. the majority of the users -- adults -- are inconvenienced, however slightly, for a 'security' system that doesn't need to exist and doesn't actually work.
4. being forced to get an account to view content is generally lame.

It's essentially UI-based nerd rage.  I thought I'd give it a shot, at least.



			
				bane_of_existance said:
			
		

> And it's better that they have the rule, because it can at least tell people not interested in porn or 18+ images that they're on here.


I'm not really sure that a significant number of people go to FA not expecting porn, but regardless there are better ways to accomplish this, like a boring legalese disclaimer.  At the very least, there's no reason to block direct links to /view/*.



			
				bane_of_existance said:
			
		

> I know a few people who have the settings to filter out adult content since that's not why they use the site.


A real filtering system would work wonders there.  8)



			
				Rhainor said:
			
		

> It's a matter of legality and accountability.  The server is in the United States, so it's subject to US laws.  In the US, it's illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to view pornographic material


It's illegal to actively and deliberately show anyone under the age of 18 pornographic material.  I'm not entirely sure it's illegal for a minor to stumble upon it, and I'm almost certain it's not illegal for an adult to leave porn in a reasonable place (under the mattress, in a drawer, on a web server) if a minor subsequently hunts it down.  Even if I'm wrong there, any acknowledgment that the user is an adult -- even a quick link click -- suffices.



			
				foxystallion said:
			
		

> He and his 17 year old girlfriend had sex - perfectly legally since they were of the age of consent in the state where this happened - and they photographed their yiffery.


That falls under child pornography.  Incredibly stupid, yes, but not the same thing.


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## DarkMeW (Jul 27, 2007)

foxystallion said:
			
		

> My ancestor was legally murdered by careful application of the judicial process - it was not a murder by mob rule.  The trial was legal and the sentence as lawful as that of the 17 year old kid.  That is the great shame of it.



They are not the same application of judicial process and the Salem murders was essentially mob rule. Salem was in mass hysteria that was partly due to a power struggle among the village, that was fueled by people that still had their legal processes in medieval times. 

To put it in clear understanding of their type of mind set, that wouldn't be allowed any where near modern judicial process, most of the 'crimes' in the Salem trials were â€˜committedâ€™ during the examinations of the trial. To quote Salem's minister, _"We are either saints or Devils: the Scripture gives us no medium"_ which was the secular view of people that believed invisible angels and devils were fighting around them and there was no middle ground. So please tell me what modern court is going to make a decision based on evidence of invisible imaginary pixies floating about them. 

These two trials aren't even remotely similar. 



> No there wasn't any more to it.  And if you had read the federal judges decision, as I did, you might agree with me that that judge deserves die by natural causes - preferably very painfully, as by bone cancer.  Both he and those who made the law are truly evil.



Please PRODUCE this. Because I looked for another trial, other then the one I thought you were talking about (which I have read the decision and it is clear as to why that person received a year in jail, even if I didn't think it fair) and I couldn't find one that fit the information that you provided. So I'm go back to my previous statement of question your interpretation of that case.


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## ZhivagoD (Jul 28, 2007)

To put it bluntly to those asking why bother with an age rule since people lie...

If a mother stumbles on FA and finds out her 14 year old has been viewing porn here and complains to authorities because FA admins didn't stop him from viewing it, *the united states government could be shut down FA and the admins thrown in prison.* We all agree this is bad, yes?


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## Vegex (Jul 28, 2007)

ZhivagoD said:
			
		

> To put it bluntly to those asking why bother with an age rule since people lie...
> 
> If a mother stumbles on FA and finds out her 14 year old has been viewing porn here and complains to authorities because FA admins didn't stop him from viewing it, *the united states government could be shut down FA and the admins thrown in prison.* We all agree this is bad, yes?



What, we have to shut FA down to throw the Admins in jail?


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## Wesha (Jul 28, 2007)

ZhivagoD said:
			
		

> If a mother stumbles on FA and finds out her 14 year old has been viewing porn here and complains to authorities because FA admins didn't stop him from viewing it, *the united states government could be shut down FA and the admins thrown in prison.* We all agree this is bad, yes?


Ever heard the word, "offshore"?

With all due respect, US =!= world. There are other places where "offensive" parts can live freely and safely.


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## ShaoShao (Jul 29, 2007)

I've been wondering, what counts as 'mature'? I submitted a picture which had a little bit of blood in it, just a trickle, and set it as mature since that's what I'm used to on other sites. However I couldn't then view my own work and noticed that it was against the rules for me to mature it anyway.


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## dafox (Jun 23, 2017)

I myself wonder if us older furs need to be slightly more acceptive of really young furs. using the internet, there are plenty of 11-13 year olds who found out about us and now call themselves furries. the fandom could seriously grow this way.


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## Yakamaru (Jun 23, 2017)

Spoiler: Necroposter likes this


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## kidchameleon (Jun 23, 2017)

Oh wow, couldn't you have at least waited until next month? 
The thread would've been celebrating it's 10th anniversary then


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## quoting_mungo (Jun 23, 2017)

Why do you have to keep making me do this? Now I have to send yet another thread upstate...


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