# "File Read Only"



## Accountability (Oct 17, 2011)

(Because there will inevitably be a thread anyways...)

Is this really going to last "at least a day"?

And if so,_ who thought that disabling the "uploading art" portion of an art site was* something that required absolutely no warning to the userbase at all?*_

To save time, I'll include an administrator's canned response:


> We intended to warn the users about this, but in all the chaos of an eventless number of weeks concluding with Furfright, we just couldn't find the time. We dun goof'd and it won't happen again. Apologies for any inconvenience.


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## Kihari (Oct 17, 2011)

I was going to say, "Oh c'mon Accountability," but I guess the not warning users thing was kind of a goof.

Where'd the quote come from? Derp, nevermind.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/108936-10-17-2011-File-read-only-mode
There's a notification in the site discussion forum, we're getting a mainsite notification online.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/108936-10-17-2011-File-read-only-mode
> There's a notification in the site discussion forum, we're getting a mainsite notification online.


that doesnt change the fact that the users almost never get a notification when something like this is going to happen


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 17, 2011)

CerberusNL said:
			
		

> http://forums.furaffinity.net/thread...read-only-mode
> There's a notification in the site discussion forum, we're getting a mainsite notification online.



I think the problem was the whole no warning (It is in bold in the OP). That thread says the move was made a week ago, which means the users should have been warned a week ago to expect this.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> that doesnt change the fact that the users almost never get a notification when something like this is going to happen


So, now we're going to drag up the past again? Stay classy, FAF.

That said, a mainsite notification is online already.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> So, now we're going to drag up the past again? Stay classy, FAF.
> 
> That said, a mainsite notification is online already.



im just sayin that it would be nice :3 many people are trying to make a living with FA, if they cant upload art then they cant make any money here.
i mean, it IS pretty big when the most important aspect of an art site cant be used for at least a day :O


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> im just sayin that it would be nice :3 many people are trying to make a living with FA, if they cant upload art then they cant make any money here.
> i mean, it IS pretty big when the most important aspect of an art site cant be used for at least a day :O


People will still be able to post journals, notes, comments etc. So they could still exchange contact info, for other means of distributing art whilst FA's in read-only mode. So, in case you see a journal pop up about it, you could always suggest that.


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## Ben (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> So, now we're going to drag up the past again? Stay classy, FAF.



Not to be rude or anything, but I'm not sure I get how just referring to examples of something happening in the past is classless.


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## BRN (Oct 17, 2011)

It would have been polite, but it wasn't neccessary, and unless the userbase in general kicks up a storm , it seems silly to say "this should have been done" when the general response is owls anyway.

To clarify, _yes_, a warning _should_ have been given, but until the mainsite starts giving a shit, it doesn't seem like a warning would have changed anything.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

SIX said:


> To clarify, _yes_, a warning _should_ have been given, but until the mainsite starts giving a shit, it doesn't seem like a warning would have changed anything.


Pretty much this.



Spoiler: Personal opinion, not a staff standpoint



Besides, I'd bet my admin position that someone'd have complained, no matter if a warning was given or not.
_"I didn't see no warning"
"It is my right to upload art"
"Just copy those files some other time"_
Something like that.


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## OssumPawesome (Oct 17, 2011)

Who put Cerbrus on PR duty?


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 17, 2011)

CerberusNL said:
			
		

> Pretty much this.
> 
> 
> Besides, I'd bet my admin position that someone'd have complained, no matter if a warning was given or not.
> ...





Wait, so because people will complain even if you give a warning you're just not bothering?
FA in summer 2034 - "Let's release the new UI. It might accidentally delete all the art though but don't bother warning people to back it up."
That doesn't sound like a responsible way to run a site.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Oct 17, 2011)

Usually Accountability's threads are at least entertaining if not with a valid point, but this just seems a bit.. petty. 

It isn't like galleries, journals, notes, shouts, or general user pages are being taken offline - merely the ability to upload new submissions. 

People are still gonna get their pornart commissions, if not via FA, then through tinypic, DA, Inkbunny, SoFurry, etc.. 

I really fail to see why not having advanced warning was even an issue since this is only temporary downtime.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Wait, so because people will complain even if you give a warning you're just not bothering?
> FA in summer 2034 - "Let's release the new UI. It might accidentally delete all the art though but don't bother warning people to back it up."
> That doesn't sound like a responsible way to run a site.



That's not what I said. I'm just giving my personal opinion on how I think a announcement, in this case, would have changed anything.
I'm not in charge of the server's storage, and I wasn't aware stuff had to be moved, until earlier today (Real life educational priorities, I'm not on FA 24/7)

Now, I do think a "New UI that might wipe the database" is quite the doomsday scenario. Unrealistic, even. Not to mention I feel it's absurd to compare it to a file transfer.
On the other hand, here's a little quote:


			
				TOS said:
			
		

> We provided storage for our users to keep and maintain their data on  the site. However, Fur Affinity IS NOT a backup service, and we are not  responsible for long term archival of user data or loss of files. We  encourage users to keep regular backups and archives of their data using  a service and/or storage media intended for that purpose.



Users should -always- have a backup of their submissions.


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## Kihari (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> someone'd have complained, no matter if a warning was given or not.



I'm not sure it's about stopping people complaining (which isn't going to happen since you can't please everyone, and that's just all there is to it) as much as it is about saying, "Hey, a major site  feature is going to be non-functional for a little while next week, we'd  just like you to know now so we're not just springing it on you at the last minute."

No, it obviously wouldn't have changed the situation itself, but it still would've been a good call.



Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Wait, so because people will complain... you're just not bothering?





> the new UI



Oh-_ho!_


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## LizardKing (Oct 17, 2011)

Called it


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## Armaetus (Oct 17, 2011)

Already running low on space from the last time? 1.7TB is a lot of fucking furry art tho.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 17, 2011)

Glaice said:


> Already running low on space from the last time? 1.7TB is a lot of fucking furry art tho.


actually they talked about getting more space a long time ago...this whole time I thought we ALREADY moved onto the next one


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## TechKat (Oct 17, 2011)

They had mentioned on Twitter they were getting a new dataserver. But those servers cost an arm and a leg, and also, they have to set it up, configure it to listen to the dataserver url (http://d.facdn.net/), security. Think about it, and all those problems and stuff like DDOS's coming up during that process.

Give FA a break! They are doing everything they can to get the data server back online as quickly as they can.

Look on the bright side, a faster server = faster downloading and more space to upload to.

Not trying to make anyone feel like jackasses, just saying, give FA a break, they work day and night keeping FA online as much as possible and most of us just pile on them.

~ TechKat


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## Smelge (Oct 17, 2011)

TechKat said:


> they work day and night keeping FA online as much as possible and most of us just pile on them.



Uhh, I don't think that is true.


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## BRN (Oct 17, 2011)

Seems most of FA is enjoying this, to be honest


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## Loomy (Oct 17, 2011)

Live backups are possible,  why on earth wasn't the server slowly backed up to a new one when the HDD was almost full?  Disks don't just poof into being full, it takes a while to get there...


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

Loomy said:


> Live backups are possible,  why on earth wasn't the server slowly backed up to a new one when the HDD was almost full?  Disks don't just poof into being full, it takes a while to get there...


All files were copied already, but now we're synchronizing the file systems.
And yes, 1.7TB of files takes that long to synch, especially since it's a lot of files of give or take 5MB.


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## Loomy (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> All files were copied already, but now we're synchronizing the file systems.
> And yes, 1.7TB of files takes that long to synch, especially since it's a lot of files of give or take 5MB.



Someone doesn't know what a live back up is!  

Live backups allow the site to be slow for two to three days while a bit for bit clone of the first disk is made on the larger disk and will stop any down time from happening.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 17, 2011)

Smelge said:


> Uhh, I don't think that is true.


everyone who knows that the coding team is Volunteers know that isnt true at all
if they were paid then maybe yes


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## BRN (Oct 17, 2011)

Loomy said:


> Someone doesn't know what a live back up is!
> 
> Live backups allow the site to be slow for two to three days while a bit for bit clone of the first disk is made on the larger disk and will stop any down time from happening.



This was done. As Cerbrus _just_ said, the backup is finished and completed and nobody even noticed. The downtime is a necessary synchronization, which has little to do with transferring the bits and bytes of the actual art files.


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## Accountability (Oct 17, 2011)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Usually Accountability's threads are at least entertaining if not with a valid point, but this just seems a bit.. petty.
> 
> It isn't like galleries, journals, notes, shouts, or general user pages are being taken offline - merely the ability to upload new submissions.
> 
> ...



As FA is primarily an art site, any event where artists would be unable to upload art to their gallery is an event that really calls for some sort of warning. I'm sure there are artists who planned on uploading things today . FurFright just wrapped up as well, so there should be the usual after-convention rush of art and fursuit photos.

It just looks _really bad_ that in however long they've been planning it (Unless someone will admit this was a spur of the moment thing, "Hey, let's synch the new server. Yeah, right now!") someone couldn't take the two minutes to do this:


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## Loomy (Oct 17, 2011)

SIX said:


> This was done. As Cerbrus _just_ said, the backup is finished and completed and nobody even noticed. The downtime is a necessary synchronization, which has little to do with transferring the bits and bytes of the actual art files.



If it needs "synchronization" then it wasn't a live backup.  Once again, someone doesn't know what they're talking about.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

From what I understood of it:

A live backup would have been a option, if we'd all enjoy a significant period of massive lag, on a fully functional site. The other option was to take the site offline for a shorter period, synch up the file systems, with the added safety of nobody accessing them.
I mean, what if a upload corrupts just while the live backup's going on? Not good.
So, better safe than sorry, a short restriction on file access, and we're all good.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> From what I understood of it:
> 
> A live backup would have been a option, if we'd all enjoy a significant period of massive lag, on a fully functional site. The other option was to take the site offline for a shorter period, synch up the file systems, with the added safety of nobody accessing them.
> I mean, what if a upload corrupts just while the live backup's going on? Not good.
> So, better safe than sorry, a short restriction on file access, and we're all good.


and its better to just have the ability to upload off to not deal with folks bitching about why their upload not uploading or getting corrupted.


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## Xaerun (Oct 17, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> I'm just giving my personal opinion


Quoted for emphasis


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## fastturtle (Oct 17, 2011)

I thought the stat stating there's only 1.7TB of data stored on the server to be interesting as thats less them my image collection

God! Please help me. I need to find a decent duplicate image finder that works on Win7-64 (dpeg 6.20 crashes). Anyone know of a decent app that can handle over 100K images in a single run? Yep, that's 100,000+ as my collection is over 3/4 million images and I need to clear the dupes.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 17, 2011)

fastturtle said:


> I thought the stat stating there's only 1.7TB of data stored on the server to be interesting as thats less them my image collection
> 
> God! Please help me. I need to find a decent duplicate image finder that works on Win7-64 (dpeg 6.20 crashes). Anyone know of a decent app that can handle over 100K images in a single run? Yep, that's 100,000+ as my collection is over 3/4 million images and I need to clear the dupes.


Try http://www.visipics.info/ or picasa.


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## Antonia (Oct 17, 2011)

No offense but...on an art site, losing the ability to post art seems like more like a major problem that users should have been notified about rather than a little problem no one should care about. The site has lost its _main _function. That's a little more than just a "whoops we done goof'd" scenario. That's my opinion on the matter.

That and FA hasn't just done this once. It's a pattern of irresponsible behavior.


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## thoron (Oct 17, 2011)

Could there maybe be a status update on how much TB has been copied? Not sure if thats practical or not, but some might like to get an idea on how much is left.


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## Corto (Oct 17, 2011)

fastturtle said:


> I thought the stat stating there's only 1.7TB of data stored on the server to be interesting as thats less them my image collection



Holy shit how can you even have almost 2 TB of images? I'm sure you couldn't watch them all if you wanted to.


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## Accountability (Oct 18, 2011)

thoron said:


> Could there maybe be a status update on how much TB has been copied? Not sure if thats practical or not, but some might like to get an idea on how much is left.



I doubt we'll get any updates because no one on FA's tech staff thinks the users should be told about anything.

Also wasn't this supposed to be done 4 months ago?


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## mouring (Oct 18, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> From what I understood of it:
> 
> A live backup would have been a option, if we'd all enjoy a significant period of massive lag, on a fully functional site. The other option was to take the site offline for a shorter period, synch up the file systems, with the added safety of nobody accessing them.
> I mean, what if a upload corrupts just while the live backup's going on? Not good.
> So, better safe than sorry, a short restriction on file access, and we're all good.



Actually I'll point out that majority of the commercial sites would have done two things.

1. Redirect all new uploads to the new server.
2. Locks database entry, moves, updates the database, and unlock entry

This means at the end of the update cycle all file data and links are consistent and pointing to the new storage device.   With minimal downtime and minimal lack of consistency. 

This operation can be rate limited, and doesn't suffer from "OMG we're almost out of space" syndrome as all new images are now being stored on the new drive array.

Done it before with the Federal Courts "CM/ECF" document repository system live.  *shrug*

Anyways, I have no horse in this game nor any dying need to post something.  So I'll wait until later.  Just decided to point out the standard method of doing such things for large scale commercial companies.


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## liang (Oct 18, 2011)

From curiosity are these submissions being stored in an actual database or just a file system?  If it is a database, none of these issues should exist.  Look into transaction log shipping, if it is a file system then shame on you *wags finger*.  :3  All in all it is a free site whose operational costs have to be very close to if not exceeding its income so be nice.


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## Sunari (Oct 18, 2011)

Antonia said:


> No offense but...on an art site, losing the ability to post art seems like more like a major problem that users should have been notified about rather than a little problem no one should care about. The site has lost its _main _function. That's a little more than just a "whoops we done goof'd" scenario. That's my opinion on the matter.
> 
> That and FA hasn't just done this once. It's a pattern of irresponsible behavior.



Sorry to say but I agree. I haven't encountered a single person on FA today due to the down time. I have art I was planning to post today, but will have to wait, which doesn't bother me, but I really wish that FA would've just upgraded before it got this bad.


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## MandertehPander (Oct 18, 2011)

Any kind of time line on completion? I need to clean my gallery of specific pictures, thanks.


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## TreacleFox (Oct 18, 2011)

Luckey people who have their art on the front page now all have 3K+ views. :L


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## Devious Bane (Oct 18, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> Any kind of time line on completion? I need to clean my gallery of specific pictures, thanks.


"_At least a day or two_".


SIX said:


> Seems most of FA is enjoying this, to be honest


Remember the previous time FA was placed into read-only mode? Good stuff.


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## yak (Oct 18, 2011)

mouring said:


> Actually I'll point out that majority of the commercial sites would have done two things.
> ................


Commercial sites have staff that work on their maintenance full time and are being paid for it. 
FA on the other hand is being run by volunteers who work full time elsewhere, and maintain the site in their off-work hours. Tired and under the pressure of constant negativity from from a part of the userbase to whom nothing we do will ever be good enough.

We were actually working on a live migration akin to what you've described, but we ran out of time and were forced to move data this way because there was simply no space left on the drives.


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## yak (Oct 18, 2011)

Accountability said:


> Also wasn't this supposed to be done 4 months ago?


Server was obtained. Had hardware issues. Looked for causes and replacement parts.


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## Volkodav (Oct 18, 2011)

Well, at least we actually got a site-wide notification this time.


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## Accountability (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> Commercial sites have staff that work on their maintenance full time and are being paid for it.
> FA on the other hand is being run by volunteers who work full time elsewhere, and maintain the site in their off-work hours. Tired and under the pressure of constant negativity from from a part of the userbase to whom nothing we do will ever be good enough.



Perhaps you could try to reach out to that part of the userbase and at least pretend to listen to them instead of ignoring them or banning them from the site. Remember, those people (myself included) share a common idea with you and the rest of the FA administration: We all want to see the site improve. Perhaps if we could all share ideas without being ignored because we're not Official Members of the FurAffinity Treehouse (even better would be more people being allowed into the treehouse), there wouldn't be things like "Unannounced core service outages that span multiple days".


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## Volkodav (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> Commercial sites have staff that work on their maintenance full time and are being paid for it.
> FA on the other hand is being run by volunteers who work full time elsewhere, and maintain the site in their off-work hours. Tired and under the pressure of constant negativity from from a part of the userbase to whom nothing we do will ever be good enough.
> 
> We were actually working on a live migration akin to what you've described, but we ran out of time and were forced to move data this way because there was simply no space left on the drives.



Think of it this way. This is just an example I have made up.

You really wish your room-mate would clean a room so everybody living in the apartment can be happy.
He decides to clean the room, but instead of putting the items away like you wish he would, instead he pushes them all into the corner of the room 
When confronted about this, his reply is "well at least I did SOMETHING. CAN'T YOU BE HAPPY?"
Yeah... he did push his stuff into a neat heap in the corner of a room, but that's not really clean and not what was expected of him in the first place.

It's awesome that the admins are trying to do things, but it's just... not what has been promised and told to us for the longest time.


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## yak (Oct 18, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Think of it this way. This is just an example I have made up.
> 
> You really wish your room-mate would clean a room so everybody living in the apartment can be happy.
> He decides to clean the room, but instead of putting the items away like you wish he would, instead he pushes them all into the corner of the room
> ...


That would be /your/ idea of clean, you see - not his. Pushing your views on things onto somebody else gets you ignored on a genetic level, especially if you're being rude and abrasive. 
It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is. You can compromise but that implies both sides win some lose some; you can no longer have your "I want you to do this my way" attitude.


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## RyuuYouki (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> That would be /your/ idea of clean, you see - not his. Pushing your views on things onto somebody else gets you ignored on a genetic level, especially if you're being rude and abrasive.
> It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is. You can compromise but that implies both sides win some lose some; you can no longer have your "I want you to do this my way" attitude.



That would be MOST peoples idea of clean.  Just because one out of ten people is a lazy f@%$ doesn't mean its acceptable.


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## Volkodav (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> That would be /your/ idea of clean, you see - not his. Pushing your views on things onto somebody else gets you ignored on a genetic level, especially if you're being rude and abrasive.
> It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is. You can compromise but that implies both sides win some lose some; you can no longer have your "I want you to do this my way" attitude.


Well no, I assume piles of dirty clothes and garbage all over the house is not considered "clean". If it is affecting the rest of the room-mates, there has to be a change.
Nobody said the room-mate would be asked in a rude or abrasive way

I really don't even know how you can sit and say "It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is." is fine. If this were a real situation and someone was happy with letting their dog shit all over the house, you would be kicking his ass out, or at LEAST asking for a little effort in maintaining the house.
To push all the dog shit into the corner of the living room is not fixing anything and it is NOT rude OR abrasive to ask the guy to have a little decency.
But this example is getting out of hand/off topic so I'm dropping this now.

Riddickaluss.


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## greaseyote (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> That would be /your/ idea of clean, you see - not his. Pushing your views on things onto somebody else gets you ignored on a genetic level, especially if you're being rude and abrasive.
> It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is. You can compromise but that implies both sides win some lose some; you can no longer have your "I want you to do this my way" attitude.



Wow, you really missed the point.


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## kayfox (Oct 18, 2011)

liang said:


> From curiosity are these submissions being stored in an actual database or just a file system?  If it is a database, none of these issues should exist.  Look into transaction log shipping, if it is a file system then shame on you *wags finger*.  :3  All in all it is a free site whose operational costs have to be very close to if not exceeding its income so be nice.



Why not files in a file system, isnt that what file systems are made for?



yak said:


> Commercial sites have staff that work on their maintenance full time and are being paid for it.
> FA on the other hand is being run by volunteers who work full time elsewhere, and maintain the site in their off-work hours. Tired and under the pressure of constant negativity from from a part of the userbase to whom nothing we do will ever be good enough.



You constantly complain about how your overworked, underpaid and generally derided.  Yet you constantly tell all of those people who offer to help to go away, or string us along with "well, someday I will setup some thing to let us collaborate."  Its not that damn complicated, you send me an NDA, I sign it, notarize it, send it back to Dragoneer, whatever.  Then you send me shit and I fix shit.  Does it have to be more complicated than that?  

How about the negativity?  You are as much to blame as anyone else for it, you constantly strung along people and as far as they could tell, lied to them.  People then get frustrated, and really, you expect us to be all flowers and fluffy bunnies when were frustrated to all hell with you?  You say you want to change this, how about working in a positive direction, and no, a positive direction is not black box rewrites or the like.



yak said:


> We were actually working on a live migration akin to what you've described, but we ran out of time and were forced to move data this way because there was simply no space left on the drives.



The fact that I can migrate twice as much data in mere hours should say something about the speed in which things should move.  Its not that complicated, tar and netcat, just do it.  You shouldint wait till the last minute to fix things, it exacerbates the issue and leaves you no time to correct mistakes.



yak said:


> That would be /your/ idea of clean, you see - not his. Pushing your views on things onto somebody else gets you ignored on a genetic level, especially if you're being rude and abrasive.
> It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is. You can compromise but that implies both sides win some lose some; you can no longer have your "I want you to do this my way" attitude.



Here someone is trying to provide you with an example of a situation where there is a commonly accepted way of doing something, but the person asked to do it does a half arsed job of it, what just leaves the problem for themselves or someone else later.  You seemed to miss this.  Maybe this is a cultural thing?  In most western European countries and North America, messy is bad, and people should clean up their apartments.  Its generally accepted that you shouldint leave your apartment a mess.  And because it is shared living, your roommates do have a say in how you keep your room.

The problem is, you have the furries who _run_ the internet telling you there is a "right" way to do things, and you just wave them off and ignore them.  These are people who know how this shit works _more than you_, where you might mess with file systems a few hours a week, we have people who spend all day on them.  Its kinda strange that you turn all of this potential help away.  Unfortunately most of these people have moved on, and wont even consider helping anymore.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

kayfox said:


> The fact that I can migrate twice as much data in mere hours


I assume you also took in account the sheer amount of files to be transferred?
1,7 TB in ~4-5MB files... That's MASSIVE.
(4-5MB was just a guess, imma ask around.)


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## Cael Thunderwing (Oct 18, 2011)

Complaining after the fact right now about how there was no notifaction is Beating a dead horse.. and Yes thers people who Help Maintain the Site for Neer are doing it out of their free time when they can i mean they have their own lives that dont Revolve around FA, 

if we Want Professional Support care and maintenance of FA? that's going to cost $$, and if that happens you know 'neer would need to turn FA into a pay site, so thank your Asses he hasn't Yet, he could Easily turn around and say " you all want to bitch? here's a big fuck you, FA's Pay to Use! Bitch about that", it's His Site we don't own Jack shit but the art we make,  so Help him about the Situation at hand or go bitch in a journal/elsewhere..  with that said,, if your tired of the issues, go flock to (or back to) DA or SoFurry. or a novel idea Start your Own furry art site then in time you'll see what Neer hasto go thru !, 'Nuff said.


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## Volkodav (Oct 18, 2011)

Cael Thunderwing said:


> Complaining after the fact right now about how there was no notifaction is Beating a dead horse.. and Yes thers people who Help Maintain the Site for Neer are doing it out of their free time when they can i mean they have their own lives that dont Revolve around FA,
> 
> if we Want Professional Support care and maintenance of FA? that's going to cost $$, and if that happens you know 'neer would need to turn FA into a pay site, so thank your Asses he hasn't Yet, he could Easily turn around and say " you all want to bitch? here's a big fuck you, FA's Pay to Use! Bitch about that", it's His Site we don't own Jack shit but the art we make,  so Help him about the Situation at hand or go bitch in a journal/elsewhere..  with that said,, if your tired of the issues, go flock to (or back to) DA or SoFurry. or a novel idea Start your Own furry art site then in time you'll see what Neer hasto go thru !, 'Nuff said.


I knew it was only time until someone came in here spouting off this "FA IS FREE, DEAL WITH THE ERRORS OR FUCK OFF!!" bullshit

It surprised me because I expected it on the first page


NEWSFLASH. If Dragoneer turned FA into a paysite as a big "fuck you" to people who complain abotu things like security issues, FA would not continue to run for long.


----------



## DarkMettaur (Oct 18, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> I assume you also took in account the sheer amount of files to be transferred?
> 1,7 TB in ~4-5MB files... That's MASSIVE.
> (4-5MB was just a guess, imma ask around.)



4-5MB?

FA crapverts everything into bad quality jpegs if it's too large shrinking them down to a couple hundred kilobytes.


----------



## Rozel-Roo (Oct 18, 2011)

Yay FA down time! I love this! So much work getting done. Sucks really bad for those who had to post commissions and stuff for cash, but for those of you who don't NEED (as if any of us NEED to be on Fa) to be on FA and whom are jumping on the band wagon. B'awwwww.

I for one am happy about the down time, gives me a chance to work on the shit I need to.


----------



## nrr (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> That would be /your/ idea of clean, you see - not his. Pushing your views on things onto somebody else gets you ignored on a genetic level, especially if you're being rude and abrasive.
> It is you who need that apartment clean, not him; he's fine with how it is. You can compromise but that implies both sides win some lose some; you can no longer have your "I want you to do this my way" attitude.



At this point, I would like to note that software projects have power structures for a reason. Perl's is a benevolent dictator for life sort of affair with Larry Wall watching from a distance as a meritocracy issues and revokes a particular mandate of heaven for a single pumpking or patch curator. Linux's structure is similar, with Linus Torvalds himself having more of a hand in everything. Theo de Raadt is the absolute last and final say as to what goes into the CVS tree for the OpenBSD, OpenSSH, and OpenNTPD projects.

On the other hand, a lot of the J2EE community has steering committees and several layers of code review, along with appointed project managers who take a lead role in making sure everything is guided in a coherent direction. At least, that's what happens in the ideal world; often, things are derailed a bit.

Now, that said, I'd like to point something out here, yak: You are the only visible guy from our perspective who has any authority or power over what goes on here. While I would like to be sympathetic, your behavior doesn't seem to be conducive to looking for collaborators on this project. *You are the benevolent dictator for life.* Furthermore, you've such a death grip on FA that you're unwilling to consider anything but orthogonal black-box implementations that don't involve inspection of the code as it currently runs.

This approach *does* work for some things, but that collection of things is seriously limited. For the glaring problems with FA currently, this is largely unsuitable without the project turning, consequently, into a service-oriented mess. It isn't big enough for that yet.


----------



## kayfox (Oct 18, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> I assume you also took in account the sheer amount of files to be transferred?
> 1,7 TB in ~4-5MB files... That's MASSIVE.
> (4-5MB was just a guess, imma ask around.)


 
kayfox@xheotris:~$ df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[...]
192.168.193.35:/share
                      4.1T  4.0T  128G  97% /share


----------



## MikeYoshi (Oct 18, 2011)

Not if people know what they're doing. Using 1000x1000 PNGs as a blank canvas works wonders sometimes.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

kayfox said:


> kayfox@xheotris:~$ df -h
> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> [...]
> 192.168.193.35:/share
> 4.1T  4.0T  128G  97% /share


Kay, I'm asking for a amount of files.
How many individual files are in that 4 TB?

It takes a lot longer to transfer a GB of 1MB files, than it does to transfer 1 2GB file. The total file size alone says -nothing- about transfer time.



DarkMettaur said:


> 4-5MB?
> FA crapverts everything into bad quality jpegs if it's too large shrinking them down to a couple hundred kilobytes.


That file size was just a guess, I can get a more accurate number, later.
That said, unless a submission file exceeds the allowed file size, it's saved in the same format as the original. (Without any kind of conversion).


----------



## kayfox (Oct 18, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> Kay, I'm asking for a amount of files.
> How many individual files are in that 4 TB?
> 
> It takes a lot longer to transfer a GB of 1MB files, than it does to transfer 1 2GB file. The total file size alone says -nothing- about transfer time.
> ...


 
kayfox@xheotris:~$ ls -laR /share | wc -l
1639341

So average filesize around 2.5MB


----------



## DragonTalon (Oct 18, 2011)

SIX said:


> This was done. As Cerbrus _just_ said, the backup is finished and completed and nobody even noticed. The downtime is a necessary synchronization, which has little to do with transferring the bits and bytes of the actual art files.



I'm curious what this actually means.   There are art files stored on disk, and then a database.  The art files have already been transfered, so what exactly has to be synchronized?  Is the database being moved to another machine now?  I know you guys are busy but with uploads disabled I have to find SOMETHING to keep me busy, and thinking about this seems to be it.


----------



## BRN (Oct 18, 2011)

DragonTalon said:


> I'm curious what this actually means.   There are art files stored on disk, and then a database.  The art files have already been transfered, so what exactly has to be synchronized?  Is the database being moved to another machine now?  I know you guys are busy but with uploads disabled I have to find SOMETHING to keep me busy, and thinking about this seems to be it.



 Since the art files are now on different servers, all the links have to be redirected to the new server, new uploads have to be directed to the new server... It's like they've built the town and now they're just updating the maps and roadsigns. Kinda. From my limited knowledge.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

kayfox said:


> kayfox@xheotris:~$ ls -laR /share | wc -l
> 1639341
> 
> So average filesize around 2.5MB


And how long did you say that took?
Also, could you leave out the command line stuff? Great, you use some linux variant... We don't really need to know.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 18, 2011)

yak said:


> Tired and under the pressure of constant negativity from from a part of the userbase to whom nothing we do will ever be good enough.



Seriously. Who's fault is that?

You've got a website stuffed with bugs, which annoys people. They complain it's not getting fixed in the forums specifically meant to report bugs. Nobody who knows what they are doing or how to fix it comments on it, and it doesn't get fixed. Then when the complaining hits a critical mass, the Totally Real This Time UI gets announced with a vague date. That then passes, and everyone in charge of it tart shuffling their feet, whistling innocently, and devoutly avoiding the threads asking about it.

That is why people complain.

They obviously want to use the site, as they notify of issues with it. But they're fed up of their bugs being ignored. They're fed up with being promised fixes then when they inevitably fail to appear their requests for information getting ignored.

Then as justification for not doing your job, even though it is still a volunteer job, it's still a job you've said you would do, you use victimisation as a reason for not doing what you should be. If you can fix it, then fix it. If you can't fix it, then take on somebody who can. It's not like you're short of applicants for that.

This whole situation is fucking stupid. Most of the complaints could be dealt with by simply updating people on delays and keeping them informed. But you lot are intent on keeping everything secret because the users aren't important enough to know what is going on. So instead you dripfeed information only when it becomes a necessary  evil.

Sort it out. Sort it all out. The site, the information blackout, and the attitude and persecution complex.


----------



## Seren (Oct 18, 2011)

_"...synchronizing with the latest changes will take a day, maybe more._"

That's wonderful and all, but that was almost 36 hours ago now.    Yak, is there any chance of an update on when upload function will be restored?  The info thread in Site Status is...not very enlightening, to say the least.  An estimate would be nice--are we getting uploads back tonight, or more like sometime this weekend?


----------



## Kaji-chuu (Oct 18, 2011)

Seren said:


> _"...synchronizing with the latest changes will take a day, maybe more._"
> 
> That's wonderful and all, but that was almost 36 hours ago now.
> 
> ...



They clearly shouldnt have said a set time period, cause when have they ever been on time? xD


----------



## Seren (Oct 18, 2011)

Kaji-chuu said:


> They clearly shouldnt have said a set time period, cause when have they ever been on time? xD



Well still, a general estimate of 'tonight' or 'sometime next week' would be nice.  XD   It's not like I'm dying to upload anything, I'm just curious.


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 18, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> Great, you use some linux variant... We don't really _*want*_ to know.


Kayfox deserves a medal for the underlying point: _Better hardware, Better software, People who know what they're doing._
FA lacks all the above.


----------



## DarkMettaur (Oct 18, 2011)

Seren said:


> Well still, a general estimate of 'tonight' or 'sometime next week' would be nice.  XD   It's not like I'm dying to upload anything, I'm just curious.



I suggest arming yourself with a baseball bat and pillow armor. You'll probably be beaten to death by white-knights telling you that because you don't pay for it you're the universe's worse person imaginable and you should have patience or something.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take two minutes to post a fucking warning on FA. That's a bullshit reason.


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 18, 2011)

It's simply bullshit, reason or not.
What they couldn't do in the site news they could have done in the forums as well as vice-versa.


----------



## Seren (Oct 18, 2011)

DarkMettaur said:


> I suggest arming yourself with a baseball bat and pillow armor. You'll probably be beaten to death by white-knights telling you that because you don't pay for it you're the universe's worse person imaginable and you should have patience or something.



That's not the point though--I'm not saying 'hurry up', I'm just asking for a rough estimate or guess.  If someone wants to screech at me for politely asking a question, then so be it.  I don't really care if the site comes up tonight or next week--I'm only curious because if I know when to expect to be able to upload again, I'll budget my commission work-load to suit it.

Hmm, and I think through reading this I've only seen one person white-knighting so far.    Thank goodness.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 18, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> It's simply bullshit, reason or not.
> What they couldn't do in the site news they could have done in the forums as well as vice-versa.



Exactly, it wouldn't have taken two minutes for anyone of the admins to jump online just to post a quick admin message on FA or here on the forums.



Seren said:


> That's not the point though--I'm not saying 'hurry  up', I'm just asking for a rough estimate or guess.  If someone wants to  screech at me for politely asking a question, then so be it.  I don't  really care if the site comes up tonight or next week--I'm only curious  because if I know when to expect to be able to upload again, I'll budget  my commission work-load to suit it.
> 
> Hmm, and I think through reading this I've only seen one person white-knighting so far.
> 
> ...



They don't have time to give out time estimates. :/


----------



## DarkMettaur (Oct 18, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Exactly, it wouldn't have taken two minutes for anyone of the admins to jump online just to post a quick admin message on FA or here on the forums.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't have time to give out time estimates. :/



You mean like when Dragoneer was supposed to make an apology post because he was selling our browsing/posting information without telling anyone?


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 18, 2011)

DarkMettaur said:


> You mean like when Dragoneer was supposed to make an apology post because he was selling our browsing/posting information without telling anyone?



Exactly, and they don't seem to be learning from past mistakes either. Isn't the point of having a team run a site that they all work together? I mean if one admin couldn't genuinely find the time to post a warning then why not ask another admin to do it? also if they new this was going to happen why not post a warning before furfright and stuff?


----------



## Kaluna (Oct 18, 2011)

An estimate would be nice, we're not likely to get one however. Just as we don't get warnings either.
Because obviously FA doesn't think good relations with it's userbase is important enough.



Occupy FurAffinity, anyone?


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 18, 2011)

Kaluna said:


> An estimate...


2 Days to 2 Weeks Years.


----------



## Seren (Oct 18, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> They don't have time to give out time estimates. :/



Well, since Yak had time to post in this thread earlier, clearly, they do have a few spare moments.

EDIT - let me clarify, that remark was not meant at you, it was meant at the administration.


----------



## ActiveXXX (Oct 18, 2011)

The people's submissions on the front page must be getting loads of views


----------



## Kaluna (Oct 18, 2011)

My guess is 4 days, lol I think we'll be back around friday.


----------



## Kyrodo (Oct 18, 2011)

Hmm, well they've got the file uploads working so I'd give it a few days up to a week at most. I doubt it'll take that long.


----------



## DragonTalon (Oct 18, 2011)

SIX said:


> Since the art files are now on different servers, all the links have to be redirected to the new server, new uploads have to be directed to the new server... It's like they've built the town and now they're just updating the maps and roadsigns. Kinda. From my limited knowledge.



So probably some massive UPDATE command(s) being run on the SQL database to change some data for every single submission.  Huh.  Shouldn't take DAYS to do that, with only 6 millions submissions, but hard to say without knowing details of what's going on.  Databases can get REALLY slow if you need to do something they are not optimized for.

I suspect that since this had never been done before, the admins don't have an exact idea of how long it will take, and if it's SQL statements running, they just sit there chugging without any friendly progress meter.  That's assuming everything goes as planned, and with computers, hah!  So we probably won't see any estimates on how much longer it will take as that's probably an unknown.  

That's my best wild guess anyway.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 18, 2011)

Kyrodo said:


> Hmm, well they've got the file uploads working so I'd give it a few days up to a week at most. I doubt it'll take that long.



I wouldn;t be surprised if it takes longer seeing as they couldn't find TWO MINUTES to warn us.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> I wouldn;t be surprised if it takes longer seeing as they couldn't find TWO MINUTES to warn us.


We should make repeating yourself a bannable offence.

That said, from what I can see / hear, Kyrodo's guess should be pretty much right: 





> a few days up to a week at most. I doubt it'll take that long.


----------



## Kayla (Oct 18, 2011)

ActiveXXX said:


> The people's submissions on the front page must be getting loads of views



Like pageviews really fricking matter in the first place.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 18, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> We should make repeating yourself a bannable offence.



I don't necessarily understand the need for that kind of hostility. While I understand interacting with the community is frustrating, and given the nature of FA's relationship with some of it's members. I don't see why that sentence was met with such "should be bannable" Far worse things have been said in the face of criticism.

I agree though, things should be planned out better to give warnings for downtime (sans unexpected). I can kinda deal with the bad programming but communication is the easiest thing for us to access. 

It's frustrating because I understand the burden of the staff, and I'm not gonna go into the constant pissing match between those deemed "Angry Nerds" or "The usual crowd" there's no need for it (nor the time tbh). However, we should be communicating to our average users to the best of our ability. That at least is the most important step.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't necessarily understand the need for that kind of hostility. While I understand interacting with the community is frustrating, and given the nature of FA's relationship with some of it's members. I don't see why that sentence was met with such "should be bannable" Far worse things have been said in the face of criticism.


 
Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't being entirely serious, there.
Should've added in a :V


----------



## Excess-0 (Oct 18, 2011)

Aww... I hope the site comes up soon. I have paid commissions I was gonna upload last night already. :I


Balls.


----------



## MikeYoshi (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm assuming things are getting switched over now, because I see people's avatars as the "Image not found" picture.


----------



## GingerM (Oct 18, 2011)

DragonTalon said:


> So probably some massive UPDATE command(s) being run on the SQL database to change some data for every single submission.  Huh.  Shouldn't take DAYS to do that, with only 6 millions submissions, but hard to say without knowing details of what's going on.  Databases can get REALLY slow if you need to do something they are not optimized for.



I wonder if the staff have access to someone with DB expertise? I know from having dabbled very, very superficially with it that the DB's table structure can greatly influence access speed. Also wondering how often the DB is normalized?


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

GingerM said:


> Also wondering how often the DB is normalized?


 That's something you should only have to do once. (or more, if you change the actual DB)


----------



## kayfox (Oct 18, 2011)

[





CerbrusNL said:


> And how long did you say that took?



Using xfsdump -> netcat -> xfsrestore, approximately 4-5 hours.  I never tried tar -c -> netcat -> tar -x because I use XFS and XFS requires journal operations to be atomic and flushed right away, and thusly is slow with file creation/deletion.



CerbrusNL said:


> Also, could you leave out the command line stuff? Great, you use some linux variant... We don't really need to know.



So, we cant have technical discussion here?  Where should we have technical discussion?



Devious Bane said:


> Kayfox deserves a medal for the underlying point: _Better hardware, Better software, People who know what they're doing._



The sad truth is Ill probably get banned.   Especially if I post something like this:

kayfox@xheotris:~$ dmesg | grep processors
[    0.262124] Total of 1 processors activated (3998.34 BogoMIPS).




Arshes Nei said:


> I don't necessarily understand the need for that kind of hostility. While I understand interacting with the community is frustrating, and given the nature of FA's relationship with some of it's members. I don't see why that sentence was met with such "should be bannable" Far worse things have been said in the face of criticism.



The utter hostility the FA staff has had in the site related forums, and talking about the site in general, is appalling.  Between CerbrusNL being hostile to anyone critical of the site to Trpdwarf clocking every thread he can and telling people to shut up, it generally leaves everyone here with the impression that you cant say anything bad about anything.  Not to make a comparison to current events, but really do you think shutting the protesters out will work any better here than in Times Square?  This kind of hostility would not be tolerated at furry conventions, and would be a firable offense in many workplaces.  If I was this hostile to customers at work, Id be fired right away.  And dont go on about "FA is free, blah blah" you cant be this site without the users, saying the users are worth nothing is belittling their contribution.  Would FA be so important if only 100 people used it?  Treating the users like this will eventually result in the collapse of the site, its just a matter of the right problem at the right time.


----------



## Kesteh (Oct 18, 2011)

DragonTalon said:


> So probably some massive UPDATE command(s) being run on the SQL database to change some data for every single submission.  Huh.  Shouldn't take DAYS to do that, with only 6 millions submissions, but hard to say without knowing details of what's going on.  Databases can get REALLY slow if you need to do something they are not optimized for.
> 
> I suspect that since this had never been done before, the admins don't have an exact idea of how long it will take, and if it's SQL statements running, they just sit there chugging without any friendly progress meter.  That's assuming everything goes as planned, and with computers, hah!  So we probably won't see any estimates on how much longer it will take as that's probably an unknown.
> 
> That's my best wild guess anyway.



It was stated a while ago that apparently NOT cleaning out the message center leaves a massive hit on the site. I've seen screencaps of users who literally have tens of thousands of each kind of message (Comment, journal, watch, etc) left in there. WHY? I don't know. There's really no point to doing that because you simply go to said user's page and look at the archive that's already there. If it's deleted you'll be left with a "... deleted by owner" marker in your inbox.
I forgot who said it and when, but it made me facepalm at knowing that this could choke the database.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 18, 2011)

Kesteh said:


> It was stated a while ago that apparently NOT cleaning out the message center leaves a massive hit on the site. I've seen screencaps of users who literally have tens of thousands of each kind of message (Comment, journal, watch, etc) left in there. WHY? I don't know. There's really no point to doing that because you simply go to said user's page and look at the archive that's already there. If it's deleted you'll be left with a "... deleted by owner" marker in your inbox.
> I forgot who said it and when, but it made me facepalm at knowing that this could choke the database.


yea I remember one time yak complained/joked that folks should clean out their messages
then again theres is always that one user that NEVER clear out their messages...also do banned folks still get updates?


----------



## Williamca (Oct 18, 2011)

...And don't banned accounts /store/ those?

This was in response to the massive amount of journals/submissions/comments message inbox.

I would assume they do, since my friend is banned, and she informed me she could still see comments and such.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> ...And don't banned accounts /store/ those?
> 
> This was in response to the massive amount of journals/submissions/comments message inbox.


reason I asked this cause when I was suspended I came back to a large number of submissions and journals, thus I would guess folks who are banned are forever gathering submissions notices and journals


----------



## kayfox (Oct 18, 2011)

Kesteh said:


> It was stated a while ago that apparently NOT cleaning out the message center leaves a massive hit on the site. I've seen screencaps of users who literally have tens of thousands of each kind of message (Comment, journal, watch, etc) left in there. WHY? I don't know. There's really no point to doing that because you simply go to said user's page and look at the archive that's already there. If it's deleted you'll be left with a "... deleted by owner" marker in your inbox.
> I forgot who said it and when, but it made me facepalm at knowing that this could choke the database.



Its because there are to little indexes in the database.

What happens when user x goes to check his messages (no indexes or foreign key relations):

Database gets a list of messages the user has not dismissed.
Database then queries the verious message tables for the messages, this may be anywhere from a few rows hit, to millions, depending on how well the primary or combined key is working.

Result: Thousands to millions of rows searched.

What happens when user x goes to check his messages (with indexes and foreign key relations):

Database gets a list of messages the user has not dismissed, this is then joined against the messages table and since the foreign key relation in the forst table references the messages table, the index already contails exact references from each row of the first table to each row of the second table, therefore the operation only requires one row for each reference to be searched.

Result: Where N equals the number of messages in the message center.  N rows searched.

Add prepared queries:

Application tells database "I have this query that Im going to run, heres what it looks like.  I will get you the values to seach on in a minute."
Database refreshes all the information it needs to run the query, aligning data structures to be optimal for the aformentioned query.
Application tells the database "Heres those values I mentioned, please run the query."
Database runs the query as above, but because it did anywhere from half the work to most of the work already, the results return even faster.
Application tells the database "I want to run that query again, heres the values for this time."
Database runs the query as above....

Result: Database time?  What database time?

Also on the plus side, prepared queries kinda gets rid of alot of that SQL injection thing.

Ad infinitum...

So we see that there are large improvements to be made in how the database works, many of which have been communicated to people like Yak, Dragoneer, et al.

You see, these bitchy people are not stupid, we can fix your shit, but you just gotta let us.


----------



## Williamca (Oct 18, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> reason I asked this cause when I was suspended I came back to a large number of submissions and journals, thus I would guess folks who are banned are forever gathering submissions notices and journals



Don't forget the people that move accounts and leave themselves watching thousands of people. *cough* UnshackledFenrir *cough*
A delete account feature would be nice.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> Don't forget the people that move accounts and leave themselves watching thousands of people. *cough* UnshackledFenrir *cough*
> A delete account feature would be nice.


heck I may have 5 accounts but I do check them all and clear them every 3 days


----------



## Williamca (Oct 18, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> heck I may have 5 accounts but I do check them all and clear them every 3 days


I just realized I am guilty of one of mine unchecked. I should go tidy up.


----------



## Kesteh (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> Don't forget the people that move accounts and leave themselves watching thousands of people. *cough* UnshackledFenrir *cough*
> A delete account feature would be nice.



Oh. I know of someone who has jumped far more accounts. Far more. Close to 10, just because of random reasons. Almost like an OCD thing. They weren't dodging drama or anything, they just did it for the hell of it.


----------



## Williamca (Oct 18, 2011)

I just realized, the "Manage Watch" in Control Panel doesn't include the new key system!


----------



## SnowFox (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> I just realized, the "Manage Watch" in Control Panel doesn't include the new key system!



And so it just sits there being a completely worthless feature that no longer does anything at all as far as I can tell.

EDIT:



Kihari said:


> ```
> <form id="hidden_form" method="post" action ="#"></form>
> ```
> 
> I'm guessing they're making plans to eventually handle watches and unwatches in a different way... either that, or ^this is on that page for who-the-hell-knows-what-reason.



That's on every page, and always has been I think. This sort of thing seems to happen a lot. They'll 'fix' things but only apply it to some areas and leave the rest broken. Like some inputs are validated, others aren't, some things are escaped before being displayed on the page, others aren't.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> I just realized, the "Manage Watch" in Control Panel doesn't include the new key system!


why do they call the watch list the buddy list?


----------



## Kihari (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> I just realized, the "Manage Watch" in Control Panel doesn't include the new key system!




```
<form id="hidden_form" method="post" action ="#"></form>
```

I'm guessing they're making plans to eventually handle watches and unwatches in a different way... either that, or ^this is on that page for who-the-hell-knows-what-reason.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 18, 2011)

What the fuck is a key system?


----------



## Accountability (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> I just realized, the "Manage Watch" in Control Panel doesn't include the new key system!



That page also for some reason generates an extra, empty row in the table that makes up the list. :|



Smelge said:


> What the fuck is a key system?


Helps prevent CSRF/XSS.


----------



## Williamca (Oct 18, 2011)

Smelge said:


> What the fuck is a key system?


It was the system added to prevent hyperlinks to favorite / watch a random user.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 18, 2011)

Williamca said:


> It was the system added to prevent hyperlinks to favorite / watch a random user.


ah I use to do that after learning how eevee did it


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 18, 2011)

Read-Only mode disabled.
Thumbnail caches are rebuilding, so FA'll be a little slow for a while, but submission uploads are enabled again.


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## BRN (Oct 18, 2011)

*INBEFORE THE MASSIVE LOCK*

Content: FA is an important entity for the staff who maintain it, but the staff who maintain aren't the best at what they do. If you really want to change something, find access to FA's code. Edit an offline version. Fix it up. I ain't in no position of power, but rather than showing competence and asking entry, prove your competence by actually effecting your claims. 

In the words of somebody who had their notes hacked last December, FA has had a "truckload" of coders; problem is that most talk a big and very shiny game, but can't seem to do much. Having a real solution is better than promising to provide one.


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## Armaetus (Oct 18, 2011)

Either they sugarcoated it and actually are working on stuff or they are hit with FALazytitus and becoming like the only other coder on this site.


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## DragonTalon (Oct 19, 2011)

SIX said:


> Content: FA is an important entity for the staff who maintain it, but the staff who maintain aren't the best at what they do. If you really want to change something, find access to FA's code. Edit an offline version. Fix it up. I ain't in no position of power, but rather than showing competence and asking entry, prove your competence by actually effecting your claims.



I am not aware of the code for FA being available anywhere.  When I first joined I wanted to take a look at it and take a peek behind the scenes and was surprised at how locked down it was.  Too many coders can make a mess of things, but not letting anyone help can be just as bad.


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## Draconas (Oct 19, 2011)

Kesteh said:


> It was stated a while ago that apparently NOT cleaning out the message center leaves a massive hit on the site. I've seen screencaps of users who literally have tens of thousands of each kind of message (Comment, journal, watch, etc) left in there. WHY? I don't know. There's really no point to doing that because you simply go to said user's page and look at the archive that's already there. If it's deleted you'll be left with a "... deleted by owner" marker in your inbox.
> I forgot who said it and when, but it made me facepalm at knowing that this could choke the database.





Crysix Fousen said:


> yea I remember one time yak complained/joked that folks should clean out their messages
> then again theres is always that one user that NEVER clear out their messages...also do banned folks still get updates?





Williamca said:


> ...And don't banned accounts /store/ those?
> 
> This was in response to the massive amount of journals/submissions/comments message inbox.
> 
> I would assume they do, since my friend is banned, and she informed me she could still see comments and such.





Crysix Fousen said:


> reason I asked this cause when I was suspended I came back to a large number of submissions and journals, thus I would guess folks who are banned are forever gathering submissions notices and journals



When I was perma banned (then later worked it out) my account was still getting messages, my browser chugged at even loading anything, they were in the thousands.


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## Accountability (Oct 19, 2011)

DragonTalon said:


> I am not aware of the code for FA being available anywhere.  When I first joined I wanted to take a look at it and take a peek behind the scenes and was surprised at how locked down it was.  Too many coders can make a mess of things, but not letting anyone help can be just as bad.



There are bits and pieces floating around... I'm sure you could find it if you looked hard enough.


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 19, 2011)

Just for interests sake, and it couldn't have been up more than 24 hours, but Inkbunny put a live countdown timer on their site for when they are taking it off for a database upgrade. Apparently warnings aren't that difficult.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/RakuenG/inkbunny-1.jpg


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## nrr (Oct 19, 2011)

kayfox said:


> You see, these bitchy people are not stupid, we can fix your shit, but you just gotta let us.



At this point, some of us bitchy people have better things with which to concern ourselves.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 19, 2011)

nrr said:


> At this point, some of us bitchy people have better things with which to concern ourselves.



I know I was looking for people to help with CA ( I can ask Jason if he still needed more tech staff to volunteer). But it's hard to ask when I see some of the behavior here tbh.


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## nrr (Oct 19, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I know I was looking for people to help with CA ( I can ask Jason if he still needed more tech staff to volunteer). But it's hard to ask when I see some of the behavior here tbh.



i personally don't have any free time to dedicate to anything at the moment. Between tying up the loose ends on my degrees, working full-time as an enterprise UNIX system administrator, and rehabilitating a 1930's craftsman-style house, along with the odd contract for a small job here and there, saying that I can realistically put up the effort of assisting would be a flat out lie.

I would love to assist with FA or other community projects, but there aren't enough hours in the day.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 19, 2011)

nrr said:


> i personally don't have any free time to dedicate to anything at the moment. Between tying up the loose ends on my degrees, working full-time as an enterprise UNIX system administrator, and rehabilitating a 1930's craftsman-style house, along with the odd contract for a small job here and there, saying that I can realistically put up the effort of assisting would be a flat out lie.
> 
> I would love to assist with FA or other community projects, but there aren't enough hours in the day.



Oh I know you're busy, but I'm just talking about the Angry Nerds in general. Some of their focus is so....I dunno how to describe it, but even though I believe in them wanting to help out a site, their attitudes make it hard to recommend them to other places who would take the help. I mean, that the focus is so intense on over analyzing a site and over scrutinizing it makes it hard to want to give a good recommendation to other projects (and larger ones like CA) with that.

You had been in mind before to help with CA I even recommended yak  years ago but he never took up on the offer :/


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## fastturtle (Oct 19, 2011)

Visipics might be interesting if I wasn't getting a 404 error for Softpedia. Sites down.

Looking at the VisiPics website (thanks for the link BTW), it looks as though it'll do what I need but until I can get it downloaded, I wont know.

On the Picassa front, although it's a nice image viewer/sorter and such with duplicate detection, it is not a duplicate image finding/removal app because that's not what it was designed for. It wants to be the Google version if iTunes for Photos and does that quite well, yet I hate the iTunes way of doing things. I also hate Google's including of their Updater that continues running even after you've uninstalled all of their apps plus it puts itself into the scheduled tasks lists and restores itself even after you've deleted the blasted updater. Very Malware Like behaviour and they've been called out on it.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 19, 2011)

fasturtle, PM the user or make a thread in another forum.


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## GingerM (Oct 19, 2011)

A question - since uploads came back up, I find it's been very, very slow to load images and sometimes won't load them at all. I saw the notice that it will be slow 'for some time', but is there an approximate value for 'some time?' and how slow should slow be before we think about reporting an issue? For instance, a 1280x1280 image took four tries; FA kept timing out after about 5 minutes. It was "Waiting for d.fadcn.net" each time.


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## Summercat (Oct 20, 2011)

GingerM said:


> A question - since uploads came back up, I find it's been very, very slow to load images and sometimes won't load them at all. I saw the notice that it will be slow 'for some time', but is there an approximate value for 'some time?' and how slow should slow be before we think about reporting an issue? For instance, a 1280x1280 image took four tries; FA kept timing out after about 5 minutes. It was "Waiting for d.fadcn.net" each time.



http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/109115-10-20-11-Minor-Performance-Issues?p=2720670#post2720670

I haven't had an update on this in the last two and a half hours (mainly because I've been in transit to home from work and detoured for an hour at the grocery store), but we're looking into it.


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