# What about open tickets?



## CaptainCool (Nov 16, 2014)

I have some pretty ancient unanswered tickets and it's really starting to get annoying.
The last direct reply to a ticket that I got was about two months ago and the admin in question didn't even do anything even though he claimed he resolved the issue.
Some of my tickets technically date back all the way to July or so, I just closed them and made a new one to bump them. Currently my oldest tickets are from August... Three months old, no reply at all. Why? I know that there is a lot to do but come on! The admins are working voluntarily but if you don't have time to put at least a little time into the site to work on tickets then hand that position to someone who does...
And these issues that I reported aren't even trivial. They are mostly about underage porn. You know, something that cost FA a lot of money that one time when the donation account was suspended or something like that?

Anyway, I'm just gonna dump the ticket numbers here in hope that someone finally looks at them...

88530, opened on August 18th, 2014, cub porn.
88531, opened on August 18th, 2014, inappropriate avatar.
88532, opened on August 18th, 2014, cub porn.
88533, opened on August 18th, 2014, inappropriate avatar (one of those with the giant flopping tits that were banned ages ago).
89911, opened on September 21st, 2014, a user with a quite a lot of underage porn.
91047, opened on October 19th, 2014, even more underage porn and the user is underage themselves.
91291, opened on October 26th, 2014, a preview linking to underage porn on Inkbunny.
91297, opened on October 26th, 2014, an underage user with a TON of fetish related content in the gallery.
92139, opened on November 16th, 2014, more cub porn. The submission on FA is not labeled as such but the original on Inkbunny is.

I submitted a bunch of other things in between that kind of sorted themselves out over time. I guess that's one way to handle it... Not very satisfying though, let me tell you that >__>

My point is just that at this point to me it feels like there is no moderation on the main site at all.


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## Sylver (Nov 16, 2014)

I don't understand why they don't set up some sort of application and the people who are accepted are given a set of rules on what is and what is not permitted, then just leave them for a week or so and the ticket issue should be fixed. Anything they don't know or didn't mention they can ask and it would be added to the list over time.

They have a site with over 700,000+ users, I'm pretty sure at least a few of those members would like to help out who are mature and objective individuals. Heck, they could even ask some of the moderators on FAF if they want to come over to main and help with the ticket issue =/


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## MRGamer01 (Nov 16, 2014)

Tickets serve no other purpose but dust catchers.  

I've actually just given up on hoping for a reply on the tickets I have out.  1 year and some months now on cub porn and one on a blatant porn icon. For all I know at this point the cub porn is probably gone and the icon changed.  Hell maybe both of the users are long gone.


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## Lobar (Nov 16, 2014)

Meanwhile...


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## Croconaw (Nov 17, 2014)

Yeah and what happened to comments on the main Fender journal? That thing went down without explanation other than "Comments on the main journal were causing some issues". I got some comments to respond to, because Crocs are apparently the talk of the town on main site journals. Pretty sure that FA got slowed because something out of the ordinary happened. Was that linked to the main journal? Was I submitting too much Croc stuff?


If only the staff can be quick at handling tickets like they are at closing journal comments. But what do I know? I'm just a Croc.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 17, 2014)

Lobar said:


> Meanwhile...



They do have a lot less members than FA but still, I like how they are rubbing it in X3


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## Lobar (Nov 17, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> They do have a lot less members than FA but still, I like how they are rubbing it in X3



It's just a statement of pride in the responsiveness of the mod team.  You might feel that FA happens to contrast unfavorably at the moment, but that tweet's not a response to anything but their own accomplishment.


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## Sylver (Nov 17, 2014)

If there's one thing I've learned in all my time on the internet, it's that in order for something to endure it must change and move forward, or it will be left behind and the people will move to a place which has better service and is moving forward (unless you're 4Chan..which seems to be stuck in 2001). I've only been on FA for a bit over a year, but in that time nothing seems to have changed and if anything it seems like they're moving backwards, not forwards. A few of you guys have even noticed some of the very frequent forum goes here have started to disappear - why they left I don't know, but I think it's likely that they just lost interest and decided to leave all-together or move on to another site.


The artists here won't really be affected, most of them post their art, stories, music, etc. on various sites such as SoFurry, Weasyl, FA, and other sites - this means they will have a following and people watching them over there. So if FA starts to go downhill or another site becomes more favorable, they can easily jump ship without too many issues. I think that would cause a domino effect, resulting in other Artists moving to the new site, and with them the users would follow as well. My guess, if FA continues to be neglected and things like tickets aren't fixed, then I'll give FA 1.5-2 years before the vast majority of people have jumped ship and another site has overtaken it.


But what do I know, I'm just a talking lion :3

Edit: Well, that took an hour and 40 minutes to edit since the site kept going down for me...


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## CaptainCool (Nov 17, 2014)

Lobar said:


> It's just a statement of pride in the responsiveness of the mod team.  You might feel that FA happens to contrast unfavorably at the moment, but that tweet's not a response to anything but their own accomplishment.



Of course it is. It just _feels_ like they are rubbing it in.
But hey good for them. Nice to see a site that actually feels like there is some moderation happening. 

Things are fine on FAF by the way! Mods are responding quickly and effectively. This thread is only about the main site!


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## Sylver (Nov 17, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> Things are fine on FAF by the way! Mods are responding quickly and effectively. This thread is only about the main site!



I was speaking with regards to the FA main site in particular - sorry for the confusion.


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## Kalmor (Nov 17, 2014)

I can't really add more other than what I've said in other, similar threads. 

What I will say though is something a mainsite admin told me recently: Apparently half the tickets (probably an exaggeration, but still a good amount) could be solved if people actually looked through their tickets to see if they're relevant anymore or not, and if not, people should close them themselves instead of waiting for an admin response which takes up valuble time.


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## Sylver (Nov 17, 2014)

It's one of those scenarios which are nice to think about, but it's extremely unlikely to ever happen to that degree, because it relies on the following:

- No members quit, or they all come back to review their tickets.
- They can be bothered.
- They know what is ticket worthy and what is not.

I think that it will help, but it won't do much. If they aren't able to keep up with the number of tickets coming in or they aren't really making any progress, then they need to look into other methods to assist or solve the issue.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 17, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> What I will say though is something a mainsite admin told me recently: Apparently half the tickets (probably an exaggeration, but still a good amount) could be solved if people actually looked through their tickets to see if they're relevant anymore or not, and if not, people should close them themselves instead of waiting for an admin response which takes up valuble time.



Yes, of course. A ticket might not be relevant anymore if it was ignored by the moderators for three months :T I reported someone with an adult avatar 2 months ago. They now changed it to something else and the whole issue went by unnoticed.
What you just said there wouldn't happen if tickets would be worked on in a timely manner... And if tickets were grouped (like if multiple people report the same illegal submission) instead of being individual tickets you also wouldn't always have such a giant mountain of reported issues.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 17, 2014)

Clearly that mainsite mod needs to be reevaluated. Captain stated it brilliantly. 
Yes, blame the users who submit TT's in the first place that there are too many TT's still open. That is not their job to sift through what should be handled quickly. Closing irrelevant tickets does not solve the problem, it just proves that there's a larger one. 

That statement is merely damage control.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 17, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> That statement is merely damage control.



I didn't want to put it so bluntly, but yeah that's true 
You are absolutely right, that isn't our job. And I am aware that the admins are working voluntarily, but that doesn't mean it isn't their job to work on tickets. It's what they signed up for when they took that position.
Blaiming the amount of tickets just proves one thing: The ticket system is badly organized and a convoluted mess.
There was a time when tickets were ansered really quickly, like in a matter of 48 hours. But then the admins were seperated into different "departments" and then things slowed down to a crawl.

From what I have seen so far the only tickets that are quickly being worked on are those for photography related issues. Those were usually answered by KryphosDrgn in particular on the same day or a day after.
But the other categories? Especially the cub one? Nothin'.
If you are afraid to deal with the pedos just let me handle it! I'll gladly give all of them the boot. _Hard_. :3


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## Kalmor (Nov 17, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> Clearly that mainsite mod needs to be reevaluated. Captain stated it brilliantly.
> Yes, blame the users who submit TT's in the first place that there are too many TT's still open. That is not their job to sift through what should be handled quickly. Closing irrelevant tickets does not solve the problem, it just proves that there's a larger one.
> 
> That statement is merely damage control.


I didn't mean it like that, nor did the admin.

Because of the way the ticketing system works, all tickets about one particular infringement, like multiple people reporting the same thing, are not grouped together (and CC's suggestion of grouping will be one I will put forward), hence when one ticket about that issue is answered, it isn't possible to find all of the duplicates from other users and close them too. From what I can see, a redo of the ticket backend is planned as per our trello page, anyway.


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## Lobar (Nov 17, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> I didn't mean it like that, nor did the admin.
> 
> Because of the way the ticketing system works, all tickets about one particular infringement, like multiple people reporting the same thing, are not grouped together (and CC's suggestion of grouping will be one I will put forward), hence when one ticket about that issue is answered, it isn't possible to find all of the duplicates from other users and close them too. From what I can see, a redo of the ticket backend is planned as per our trello page, anyway.





			
				StarryKitten on Trello said:
			
		

> Need to close all tickets where last user login was +3 months


Um.  Can I ask what relevance the activity of the reporting user's account has to the validity of the report?


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## Socks the Fox (Nov 17, 2014)

Heck I'd be willing to help sort through and just close no-longer-valid tickets (ones where the sub was deleted, inappropriate avatars that have been changed, etc)


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## quoting_mungo (Nov 17, 2014)

Sylver said:


> I think that it will help, but it won't do much. If they aren't able to keep up with the number of tickets coming in or they aren't really making any progress, then they need to look into other methods to assist or solve the issue.


Being able to keep up with the number of new tickets coming in and being able to clear the backlog in a reasonable time frame are not necessarily the same thing, and any time that we don't have to spend looking up issues that are no longer a problem is time we can spend on ones that still do require assistance.



CaptainCool said:


> Yes, of course. A ticket might not be relevant anymore if it was ignored by the moderators for three months :T I reported someone with an adult avatar 2 months ago. They now changed it to something else and the whole issue went by unnoticed.
> What you just said there wouldn't happen if tickets would be worked on in a timely manner...


Three months, three days, three hours, three minutes. There's always going to be issues that are resolved by the time someone can get to it. Yes, the more time passes the more tickets get outdated, and nobody likes the state of affairs as it is, but that doesn't mean saving mainsite staff time by closing your own no-longer-relevant tickets doesn't help reduce the backlog. There have been days where I've literally spent hours just closing out tickets where the reported submission is no longer around.



CaptainCool said:


> Blaiming the amount of tickets just proves one thing: The ticket system is badly organized and a convoluted mess.


Oh trust me, nobody's saying it is particularly GOOD, but it's what we have to work with right now. 



CaptainCool said:


> From what I have seen so far the only tickets that are quickly being worked on are those for photography related issues. Those were usually answered by KryphosDrgn in particular on the same day or a day after.
> But the other categories? Especially the cub one? Nothin'.


There's plenty of tickets being answered across all categories. The cub tickets are slowed down by requiring input from multiple admins in order to ensure enforcement is as fair as possible, in my understanding.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 17, 2014)

quoting_mungo said:


> The cub tickets are slowed down by requiring input from multiple admins in order to ensure enforcement is as fair as possible, in my understanding.



If it looks like a kid it gets the boot. That's how it should be...
Also, most pedophiles lie about their child porn submissions anyway. They claim the characters are of legal age on FA when the same submission is clearly labeled as cub smut on Pedobunny, and in that case I always try to link to the IB original.
If I may make a suggestion, I think users like that should be banned permanently. They are trying to get around the rules by lying about it.


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## Gryphoneer (Nov 17, 2014)

Lobar said:


> Um.  Can I ask what relevance the activity of the reporting user's account has to the validity of the report?


The relevance is that this makes it really easy to claim you have "resolved" thousands upon thousands of TTs from one day to the next.


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## Sylver (Nov 17, 2014)

quoting_mungo said:


> Being able to keep up with the number of new tickets coming in and being able to clear the backlog in a reasonable time frame are not necessarily the same thing, and any time that we don't have to spend looking up issues that are no longer a problem is time we can spend on ones that still do require assistance.



I didn't say they were the same thing - sorry if that's the way you interpreted it. I also acknowledged in my post that it would help, it just won't do very much; it would be a nice global message to send out though.



Gryphoneer said:


> The relevance is that this makes it really easy to claim you have "resolved" thousands upon thousands of TTs from one day to the next.



It's basically just sweeping them under the rug and pretending that childporn expires and becomes..not childporn.. if the user who reported it goes offline for 3 months. Brilliant solution.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 26, 2014)

Just letting you guys know, ever since I made this thread I got replies to all of my tickets!
Just kidding I didn't get any replies at all.


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## Croconaw (Nov 26, 2014)

Neer is too busy live tweeting and faving an asortment of animal phallus to hear your cries.


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## Freehaven (Nov 26, 2014)

Itâ€™s Dragoneer being Dragoneer, of course.

â€˜If I donâ€™t say anything about a possibly bad situation, it will eventually go away!â€™


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## TheArchiver (Nov 26, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> â€˜If I donâ€™t say anything about a possibly bad situation, it will eventually go away!â€™



Because providing a statement would be... Oh how did our resident Piche white knight put it? Ah yes!



PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level.



That.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 27, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Itâ€™s Dragoneer being Dragoneer, of course.
> 
> â€˜If I donâ€™t say anything about a possibly bad situation, it will eventually go away!â€™



Goddammit, Freehaven!

I'm sorry, I always wanted to say that to you... Am I a true furry now?


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## Freehaven (Nov 27, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> Goddammit, Freehaven!
> 
> I'm sorry, I always wanted to say that to you... Am I a true furry now?



Yes. Yes, you are.


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> Because providing a statement would be... Oh how did our resident Piche white knight put it? Ah yes!
> 
> 
> 
> That.



Of course, I'm a White Knight because I disagree with you. Fuck off, please.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 28, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Yes. Yes, you are.



Neat :'D

Anyway, still nothing. Last time I complained all my tickets were solved within 24 hours. This time we got a half arsed excuse that we should check if our tickets are still relevant. 
I don't even report anything anymore. I won't get a reply anyway.


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## Croconaw (Nov 28, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> Anyway, still nothing. Last time I complained all my tickets were solved within 24 hours. This time we got a half arsed excuse that we should check if our tickets are still relevant.
> I don't even report anything anymore. I won't get a reply anyway.


You might wanna try spamming his twitter. Putting it up on his twitter page gets him to work fast to clear up your issues from what I've seen.


PheagleAdler said:


> Of course, I'm a White Knight because I disagree with you. Fuck off, please.



I would've went with butt buddy, but that's just what Crocs think anyways.


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## RTDragon (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Of course, I'm a White Knight because I disagree with you. Fuck off, please.



Your really not helping your case but to be honest i am not surprised since this is not the first time you have done this.
How can anyone here take your word seriously considering you are white knighting.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Of course, I'm a White Knight because I disagree with you. Fuck off, please.



My apologies. Would you prefer "sock account"? Please select one or the other.


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## Socks the Fox (Nov 28, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> My apologies. Would you prefer "sock account"? Please select one or the other.



Hey, that's an insult to socks everywhere


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Your really not helping your case but to be honest i am not surprised since this is not the first time you have done this.
> How can anyone here take your word seriously considering you are white knighting.



Kindly explain why it is necessary for me to agree with you? I'm not a "white knight" yet I disagree with you. How is that a problem?

Maybe I should go back to the original argument. I think having Dragoneer say anything won't improve the situation, regardless if it's the "right thing to do" because you guys have the same mindset no matter what happens. 'Neer could fix the site permanently and you'd still be like "you're a horrible person."



TheArchiver said:


> My apologies. Would you prefer "sock account"? Please select one or the other.



I would prefer you get an education and stop being so shallow, don't limit me to two choices either.



Socks the Fox said:


> Hey, that's an insult to socks everywhere



I like socks.


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## Lobar (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Kindly explain why it is necessary for me to agree with you? I'm not a "white knight" yet I disagree with you. How is that a problem?



If you're not a white knight, then what would Dragoneer have to do to get you vocally disagree with him?


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

Lobar said:


> If you're not a white knight, then what would Dragoneer have to do to get you vocally disagree with him?



Say something I disagree with? I have my own beliefs, I don't follow anyone, if I hate something he says, he'll know it.


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## StormyChang (Nov 28, 2014)

i always wished they'd actually look at the applications they ask for.   each time there's been a call for applications for volunteers to ONLY  work on trouble tickets to try and catch up, i've applied.  i'm an  artist and work at home so i'd be around almost all the time, oh, and  that aside i actually have had experience in moding forums or solving  issues between users of other sites.  after about the third round of  rejections though, i realized that putting out the applications was just  a PC way of neer rounding up his e-buddies to put in his circle-jerk  club that is fa admins and mods.  no one with actual skills in the  things they need will ever actually be 'hired' to do anything v.v


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## Lobar (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Say something I disagree with? I have my own beliefs, I don't follow anyone, if I hate something he says, he'll know it.



I don't suppose you'll pin down any specifics in advance.


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

Lobar said:


> I don't suppose you'll pin down any specifics in advance.



Not sure what kind of specifics I can give. I'm a spur-of-the-moment kind of guy. You could try giving examples that you think I might disagree with though


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## RTDragon (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Not sure what kind of specifics I can give. I'm a spur-of-the-moment kind of guy. You could try giving examples that you think I might disagree with though



Then your white knighting.


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Then your white knighting.



*you're. And butt out, I'm talking to Lobar. I'm not white knighting just because I don't give out free examples.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 28, 2014)

You're on a public forum. He can respond to whatever he wishes.


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## RTDragon (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> *you're. And butt out, I'm talking to Lobar. I'm not white knighting just because I don't give out free examples.



She got a point so far your not really helping your case so if you are going to post you have to expect different opinions Adler.

Serious if you have answers then say something so far your not exactly being serious.


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> She got a point so far your not really helping your case so if you are going to post you have to expect different opinions Adler.
> 
> Serious if you have answers then say something so far your not exactly being serious.



Give me some substance then, I'm just looking for something to go off of. Ask me what my opinion on this or that is


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## Freehaven (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Give me some substance then, I'm just looking for something to go off of. Ask me what my opinion on this or that is



Well, if you insist, give us your opinions onâ€¦

â€¢ Dragoneerâ€™s decision to put a person with known malicious hacking experience on the site staff (and, from what I understand, damn near in charge of the coding for the new site upgrade) as well as his decision to hide that personâ€™s involvement with FA for at least a year
â€¢ Dragoneerâ€™s refusal to address the above situation with the FA userbase at large _on FA_
â€¢ Dragoneerâ€™s continued promises of a new site upgrade going back _years_
â€¢ Dragoneerâ€™s decision to put Adam â€˜Zaushâ€™ Wan on staff despite his admitted lack of coding experience and the salacious accusations made against him

Gâ€™head. Be brutally honest. Donâ€™t be afraid to go against the party line (read: Dragoneerâ€™s word) if you happen to disagree with itâ€”but donâ€™t insult our intelligence and act like nothing on that list is â€˜small potatoesâ€™ or didnâ€™t happen or whatever.

You wanna prove youâ€™re not a white knight for â€™Neer? Iâ€™ve just given you the chanceâ€”so take it or leave it.

EDIT: also, feel free to discuss trouble tickets going ignored for months. Dragoneer surely has a hand in that, too.


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## PheagleAdler (Nov 28, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Well, if you insist, give us your opinions onâ€¦
> 
> â€¢ Dragoneerâ€™s decision to put a person with known malicious hacking experience on the site staff (and, from what I understand, damn near in charge of the coding for the new site upgrade) as well as his decision to hide that personâ€™s involvement with FA for at least a year
> â€¢ Dragoneerâ€™s refusal to address the above situation with the FA userbase at large _on FA_
> ...



Well, alright. I'll try to answer as best I can.
-Honestly, putting a person on staff who had previous hacking experience, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Seems a bit reckless, to be honest, but at the time I heard the news I thought perhaps he could get a second chance. I can't honestly say that I'd hire him myself though. He stepped down though, so problem solved, I guess?
-Not having Dragoneer address the situation, well we all saw what happened with Zaush, and I agree he could have said something, but then again, what difference would it have made?
-I don't know why there haven't been many of the promised upgrades, and I think it's important to keep one's promises, I am hopeful that this Phoenix thing goes through though.
-Zaush, I don't know how much experience he has in coding, but outside of that, it's hard to simply go off on someone because of accusations. 

Trouble tickets? I used to think that they were answered timely, and in the past, I didn't have to wait months for a response, but I have a ticket open from 3 months ago about a problem with the search feature that has probably been present for years. It's not a major issue, but even with the supposed 'poor coding' I don't think it would take very long to fix.

I guess outstanding tickets is the biggest problem I have with the site right now, because it affects me personally. That, and the fact that notifications aren't getting through for several artists who I watch. I think 'Neer needs to focus on those problems and get them fixed.


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## Croconaw (Nov 28, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Well, alright. I'll try to answer as best I can.
> -Honestly, putting a person on staff who had previous hacking experience, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Seems a bit reckless, to be honest, but at the time I heard the news I thought perhaps he could get a second chance. I can't honestly say that I'd hire him myself though. He stepped down though, so problem solved, I guess?
> -Not having Dragoneer address the situation, well we all saw what happened with Zaush, and I agree he could have said something, but then again, what difference would it have made?
> -I don't know why there haven't been many of the promised upgrades, and I think it's important to keep one's promises, I am hopeful that this Phoenix thing goes through though.
> ...




The real kick in the crotch is that these new controversial staff additions (Zaush and Chase) have shown no advancement or progress with FA after all the drama they caused. Why Neer fought so hard to have these people on staff with nothing to show was kind of a kick in the dick to people. This is why others and myself are upset with Neer. 

Don't even get me started on the server that still has yet to be implemented in after the "WE NEED THIS NOW" donation pool was started for it last year.


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## RedSavage (Nov 28, 2014)

And don't forget the big purge of users earlier this year who contested against the changes. Something about Dragoneer cleaning up the forums to "be more friendly". 

What he really mean was "get rid of people who were even more critical of him". Which he didn't do. The only fucking thing it did was decrease the amount of posters who actually gave a shit to hold in depth discussion. Nothing's improved. There's just less of it. And that doesn't touch the freaking quality of posts at all.


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## Freehaven (Nov 29, 2014)

You really have no idea how to have a solid opinion of your own, do you, Pheagle?



PheagleAdler said:


> Honestly, putting a person on staff who had previous hacking experience, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Seems a bit reckless, to be honest, but at the time I heard the news I thought perhaps he could get a second chance. I can't honestly say that I'd hire him myself though. He stepped down though, so problem solved, I guess?



Okay, look at it this way. Dragoneer put a person with malicious hacking experience on site staff. If you assume this person had admin access to the site itself (helped by his saying he was a shadow admin for over a year), you can then assume he had some form of access to the notes system. This would give him unfettered access to usersâ€™ personal information, including the PayPal addresses of artistsâ€”addresses often hidden from public view and kept private so as to prevent others from reporting the addresses for ToS violations.

Given this personâ€™s prior experience with hacking and malicious intent towards websites (and their users), you can also assume how he might use the information at his fingertips to wreak havoc on usersâ€”such as, say, reporting PayPal addresses for ToS violations and shutting down revenue streams for a multitude of artists.

Now, all of the above is just assumption and conjectureâ€”but I made it after considering all the evidence and information about this person at my disposal. I am not the brightest bulb in the marquee, and if I can put these ideas together (and get pissed about the possibility of them becoming a reality), what the hell is stopping you?



PheagleAdler said:


> Not having Dragoneer address the situation, well we all saw what happened with Zaush, and I agree he could have said something, but then again, what difference would it have made?



If anything, it would have shown how Dragoneer has made an actual effort to run FA like a mature adult who wants the service to be the bestâ€”instead of running it like someone who does it for the ego trip.



PheagleAdler said:


> I don't know why there haven't been many of the promised upgrades, and I think it's important to keep one's promises, I am hopeful that this Phoenix thing goes through though.



You know FA has a history of failing to keep promises _vis-Ã¡-vis_ upgrades, and you think keeping promises is importantâ€¦but you still have hope for the latest â€˜promisedâ€™ upgradeâ€”one we havenâ€™t seen or heard anything meaningful about in months?

Goddamn, son, you are optimistic to the point of foolishness.



PheagleAdler said:


> Zaush, I don't know how much experience he has in coding, but outside of that, it's hard to simply go off on someone because of accusations.



The accusations and user outrage towards them should have been enough for Dragoneer to toss him off the team. When you lose the trust and respect of your users, you have to make an effort to regain even the smallest sliver of it. Refusing to make the effort makes you look as if you donâ€™t give a shit about the users.



PheagleAdler said:


> Trouble tickets? I used to think that they were answered timely, and in the past, I didn't have to wait months for a response, but I have a ticket open from 3 months ago about a problem with the search feature that has probably been present for years. It's not a major issue, but even with the supposed 'poor coding' I don't think it would take very long to fix.



My god, you actually made a complaint without hedging your statement or acting wishy-washy about whether itâ€™s good or bad. I didnâ€™t think you had it in you.



PheagleAdler said:


> I guess outstanding tickets is the biggest problem I have with the site right now, because it affects me personally. That, and the fact that notifications aren't getting through for several artists who I watch. I think 'Neer needs to focus on those problems and get them fixed.



You even managed to say â€˜Dragoneer needs to fix this shitâ€™ without a â€˜butâ€™. There is hope for you!


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 29, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> You really have no idea how to have a solid opinion of your own, do you, Pheagle?



Look, dear, if you don't like my opinions, that's too bad, but don't tell me I don't have one of my own.



Freehaven said:


> Okay, look at it this way. Dragoneer put a person with malicious hacking experience on site staff. If you assume this person had admin access to the site itself (helped by his saying he was a shadow admin for over a year), you can then assume he had some form of access to the notes system. This would give him unfettered access to usersâ€™ personal information, including the PayPal addresses of artistsâ€”addresses often hidden from public view and kept private so as to prevent others from reporting the addresses for ToS violations.
> 
> Given this personâ€™s prior experience with hacking and malicious intent towards websites (and their users), you can also assume how he might use the information at his fingertips to wreak havoc on usersâ€”such as, say, reporting PayPal addresses for ToS violations and shutting down revenue streams for a multitude of artists.
> 
> Now, all of the above is just assumption and conjectureâ€”but I made it after considering all the evidence and information about this person at my disposal. I am not the brightest bulb in the marquee, and if I can put these ideas together (and get pissed about the possibility of them becoming a reality), what the hell is stopping you?



Maybe he could have, but he didn't, for a whole year.



Freehaven said:


> If anything, it would have shown how Dragoneer has made an actual effort to run FA like a mature adult who wants the service to be the bestâ€”instead of running it like someone who does it for the ego trip.



I'm not gonna say the negativity is unwarranted, but maybe you learn to ignore the people who hate the site, given that they're usually the same people speaking out.



Freehaven said:


> You know FA has a history of failing to keep promises _vis-Ã¡-vis_ upgrades, and you think keeping promises is importantâ€¦but you still have hope for the latest â€˜promisedâ€™ upgradeâ€”one we havenâ€™t seen or heard anything meaningful about in months?
> 
> Goddamn, son, you are optimistic to the point of foolishness.



I have hope, something you know nothing of.



Freehaven said:


> The accusations and user outrage towards them should have been enough for Dragoneer to toss him off the team. When you lose the trust and respect of your users, you have to make an effort to regain even the smallest sliver of it. Refusing to make the effort makes you look as if you donâ€™t give a shit about the users.



You can't always listen to your users, they don't always know what's best. In fact, I'd much rather site not become overdone and bloated like deviantART or something, but a lot of users are looking for features like those on DA.



Freehaven said:


> My god, you actually made a complaint without hedging your statement or acting wishy-washy about whether itâ€™s good or bad. I didnâ€™t think you had it in you.
> 
> 
> 
> You even managed to say â€˜Dragoneer needs to fix this shitâ€™ without a â€˜butâ€™. There is hope for you!



You know I have my own opinions, that's what I've been trying to tell you.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 29, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Look, dear, if you don't like my opinions, that's too bad, but don't tell me I don't have one of my own.



Oh, you have opinions, but from my perspective, theyâ€™re either Dragoneerâ€™s opinions regurgitated through your mouth or so hedged and qualified as to not even count as opinions.



PheagleAdler said:


> Maybe he could have, but he didn't, for a whole year.



So what? Donâ€™t forget the fact that Dragoneer hid this personâ€™s involvement with the site for a year. That counts as an egregious breach of user trust on its own. That said person didnâ€™t breach Dragoneerâ€™s trust and attack FA or its userbaseâ€”in any way we know of, anywayâ€”is merely an extraordinarily lucky break.



PheagleAdler said:


> I'm not gonna say the negativity is unwarranted, but maybe you learn to ignore the people who hate the site, given that they're usually the same people speaking out.



â€˜Ignore criticism, especially if itâ€™s from people who think youâ€™re doing a bad job.â€™

Most of us criticizing Dragoneer donâ€™t actually hate the FA service; we wouldnâ€™t be sticking around to say â€™Neer is doing a bad job if we did. We dislike how Dragoneer treats the service as a personal ego boost while brushing complaints from FAâ€™s userbase aside. Weâ€™re tired of him ignoring reasonable criticisms and letting situations like the Zidonuke debacle go unaddressed.

In short: weâ€™re tired of him acting like an immature ass and letting FA go to hell as a result.



PheagleAdler said:


> I have hope, something you know nothing of.



Hope without the expectation of something going wrong is gullibility.



PheagleAdler said:


> You can't always listen to your users, they don't always know what's best. In fact, I'd much rather site not become overdone and bloated like deviantART or something, but a lot of users are looking for features like those on DA.



Theyâ€™re looking for such features because they work, they offer something useful, and they give the sites which provide them a leg up over an art site stuck in its own evolution. Like an artistâ€™s skill over time, art sites have evolved over the yearsâ€”except for FA, which hasnâ€™t had any kind of major functionality upgrade in the near-decade Iâ€™ve been using it.

You call things like folders and better support for text files â€˜bloatâ€™. I call it â€˜basic goddamn functionality for any modern artdump siteâ€™.

FA can do one of two things at this point: evolve or perish. Given Dragoneerâ€™s track record, I think weâ€™ll see the latter happen far before he comes close to making the former a reality.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 29, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Oh, you have opinions, but from my perspective, theyâ€™re either Dragoneerâ€™s opinions regurgitated through your mouth or so hedged and qualified as to not even count as opinions.



Opinions don't have to be entirely different from someone else's to qualify as your own.



Freehaven said:


> So what? Donâ€™t forget the fact that Dragoneer hid this personâ€™s involvement with the site for a year. That counts as an egregious breach of user trust on its own. That said person didnâ€™t breach Dragoneerâ€™s trust and attack FA or its userbaseâ€”in any way we know of, anywayâ€”is merely an extraordinarily lucky break.



Or is it? You can't prove anything - only that he's trusted someone who's done bad things in the past.



Freehaven said:


> â€˜Ignore criticism, especially if itâ€™s from people who think youâ€™re doing a bad job.â€™
> 
> Most of us criticizing Dragoneer donâ€™t actually hate the FA service; we wouldnâ€™t be sticking around to say â€™Neer is doing a bad job if we did. We dislike how Dragoneer treats the service as a personal ego boost while brushing complaints from FAâ€™s userbase aside. Weâ€™re tired of him ignoring reasonable criticisms and letting situations like the Zidonuke debacle go unaddressed.
> 
> In short: weâ€™re tired of him acting like an immature ass and letting FA go to hell as a result.



Fair enough, you could do without all the emotion behind your words though



Freehaven said:


> Hope without the expectation of something going wrong is gullibility.



That makes no sense. Things can go wrong, they don't have to though.



Freehaven said:


> Theyâ€™re looking for such features because they work, they offer something useful, and they give the sites which provide them a leg up over an art site stuck in its own evolution. Like an artistâ€™s skill over time, art sites have evolved over the yearsâ€”except for FA, which hasnâ€™t had any kind of major functionality upgrade in the near-decade Iâ€™ve been using it.
> 
> You call things like folders and better support for text files â€˜bloatâ€™. I call it â€˜basic goddamn functionality for any modern artdump siteâ€™.
> 
> FA can do one of two things at this point: evolve or perish. Given Dragoneerâ€™s track record, I think weâ€™ll see the latter happen far before he comes close to making the former a reality.



You think the site's going to perish - and yet you're still here arguing about it. I disagree, you attack me, say I'm a "white knight" or a "sock account" and think I'm somehow allied with Dragoneer. 

Quite frankly, I love the site. It could use some upgrades, of course, and it hasn't gone without the occasional bump in the road, but it still here - and it's not going away anytime soon. To say otherwise is just grossly pessimistic.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 29, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Opinions don't have to be entirely different from someone else's to qualify as your own.



It helps if you don't sound as if you're parroting â€™Neer.



PheagleAdler said:


> You can't prove anything - only that he's trusted someone who's done bad things in the past.



That isâ€¦kinda my point here, really. He put his trust into someone with a history of known malicious activityâ€”and he hid that personâ€™s involvement with the site for a year, to boot. He might trust Zidonuke, but when does he trust _the FA userbase_ enough to tell them the fucking truth about things like this?



PheagleAdler said:


> you could do without all the emotion behind your words though



Didâ€¦did you just try to concern troll me? Well, fuck you. I will make my arguments in any tone, with any language, using whatever means I have necessary. _I will write â€˜fuck youâ€™ on construction paper in my own blood if I absolutely have to._

You donâ€™t get to dictate my tone, my choice of language, and my emotional state (or how it plays into what I say) to me. You donâ€™t have the right, and I wonâ€™t dare fucking give you the privilege.



PheagleAdler said:


> Things can go wrong, they don't have to though.



You didnâ€™t get what I said, so let me spell it out for you in shorter sentences.

You can hope. Hope is faith. Faith is good. Faith is bad when you fucking rely on it as a way to escape reality and allow it to let you believe everything turn out okay/nothing will ever go wrong/everything and everyone is awesome.

Blind faith is gullibility. Blind faith in a man who has repeatedly failed to live up to his word, lied to people, and acted like an immature asshole is foolishness on a scale that goes beyond my understanding.



PheagleAdler said:


> You think the site's going to perish - and yet you're still here arguing about it.



I use FA in a wholly passive way now; if a lot of my favorite artists weren't FA-exclusive, Iâ€™d stop going to FA in a heartbeat.



PheagleAdler said:


> I disagree, you attack me, say I'm a "white knight" or a "sock account" and think I'm somehow allied with Dragoneer.



You're the one suggesting he should ignore criticism from â€˜hatersâ€™ and parroting the idea that he doesnâ€™t need (or shouldnâ€™t have to) address FAâ€™s userbase about the Zidonuke situation. Gee, I wonder where I got the idea that youâ€™re riding Dragoneerâ€™s dick.



PheagleAdler said:


> Quite frankly, I love the site. It could use some upgrades, of course, and it hasn't gone without the occasional bump in the road, but it still here - and it's not going away anytime soon. To say otherwise is just grossly pessimistic.



I have used FurAffinity for well over eight years. In that time, Iâ€™ve seen competitors rise and fall, and Iâ€™ve seen DeviantArt evolve not just what services it offers, but the entire look of the site itself.

FurAffinity looks and functions nearly the same now as it did when I first joined the site back in 2006. There has been no evolution. Every promise of improved functionality and a new look for the site has been broken. Dragoneer has destroyed his credibility to the point where any new promises about FurAffinity â€˜getting betterâ€™ have become impossible to take seriously.

If trusting Dragoneer to fuck up after seeing it happen for eight years and counting is pessimism, I will take the label and slap it on my forehead.

Iâ€™d rather be a cranky cunt than a dumb one.


----------



## Fluffball (Nov 30, 2014)

I honestly don't bother reporting issues anymore because...

a) they're so damned backlogged or...

b) they can't be arsed to do anything about it.

The last trouble ticket I had answered was for an issue I came across back in the summer of 2013 (it took them almost seven months before they answered it;that's just ridiculous!)

And I can't tell you how many times I have reported users who are listed as being underaged and, after reporting the accounts, being told 'many people RP on this site and don't share their real ages. So, unless you have valid evidence to prove this person is as young as they say they are, we can't do anything about it.

That''s just disturbing. Why take the chance with something like that?


----------



## Duality Jack (Nov 30, 2014)

Ah yes ITT defending the obviously guilty due to personal bias and favor.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Nov 30, 2014)

Fluffball said:


> And I can't tell you how many times I have reported users who are listed as being underaged and, after reporting the accounts, being told 'many people RP on this site and don't share their real ages. So, unless you have valid evidence to prove this person is as young as they say they are, we can't do anything about it.
> 
> That''s just disturbing. Why take the chance with something like that?


This primarily pertains to the "Age" field in the artist information, because it's a simple text field where you can enter anything you want and it doesn't update with time. Policy is to not go off this field alone; if you've got links to basically anything timestamped (comments, submission descriptions, journals, shouts, notes) where the user states their age we'll act on that, and we usually do a good bit of digging before saying "sorry, we can't find proof" even if we get reports based on only the age field (which takes time - we love reports with clear links because they save us time!). 

I understand your position and kind of agree with it, but on the other hand going by the age field I was 25 for like four years because I couldn't be bothered updating it, so it'd be hypocritical of me to hold users to it as gospel truth.


----------



## CaptainCool (Nov 30, 2014)

The gospels don't contain any truth anyway so just ban them :V

All kidding aside, this is disturbing. I mean sure. If one of the baby-weirdos claims to be 2 years old that obviously is a fake age. But if someone writes they are in their teens that is probably true. Teenagers also often post photos of themselves. 
How about just asking the reported user for their ID? They can't even use pictures from Google anymore because you can reverse search for them. Give the user a week to upload their ID and agelock them if they don't comply.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You think the site's going to perish - and yet you're still here arguing about it. I disagree, you attack me, say I'm a "white knight" or a "sock account" and think I'm somehow allied with Dragoneer.
> 
> Quite frankly, I love the site. It could use some upgrades, of course, and it hasn't gone without the occasional bump in the road, but it still here - and it's not going away anytime soon. To say otherwise is just grossly pessimistic.



It's not about the site perishing: It's about the site being stagnant. And you are a sock puppet/white knight to most people mainly because, for the past few incidents with FA, you're always the first to jump on the "Pshaw! You're just a bunch of drama queens. Dragoneer did nothing wrong!" stance. 


And the real shame of it all is that, because of the timing of when FA was created, it IS going to be the main hub for furry art till dragoneer decides to pull it off life support due to him finding a better way to make money that doesn't revolve around scamming people with phony fundraisers. And what sucks for artists like myself is knowing that we got to use a shit heap like FA to progress in building up a watch base, which is really disgusting given the controversial choices of adminship/broken promises that have occurred since he took over. I mean, the rumors regarding many of the staff and now the Zidonuke controversy being proven fact makes me feel completely dumb for starting on FA in the first place. I wanna say "Welp, fuck this place I'm out of here", but the truth of the matter is, I've received the most feed back on my work on here than on DA or Weasyl combined. It's that disgusting little fact that binds me to FA so closely. 


You can comment all you want about "Hey well no matter what Neer does, FA will still remain", because THAT in itself is the sad truth of it all for artists like myself. DA is too packed for upcoming artists who are still learning the ropes, Weasyl is a ghost town much like wysp and nabyn (lol). And while I love Weasyl's tools and rather dynamic features, it doesn't amount to much when you don't have the user base to properly utilize it (yet). Neer hasn't done anything but run FA on cruise control since he took over, and that's a damn shame for the artists and people who use FA for a secondary income (Especially, seeing how a hacker is amongst the staff, that makes me rather uncomfortable with putting much information on this site). You just can't see this because your needs on FA greatly differ from the artist's needs.


Maybe someday, Weasyl will get that population boom when if Dragoneer finds a way to fuck up even harder than what he's done this year. Or maybe he'll pull a magical mega update out of his ass. Both seem very unlikely to occur in the upcoming future.



But what the fuck do I know? I'm just a Croc.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> It helps if you don't sound as if you're parroting â€™Neer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, I probably came off as an asshole. I'm not saying Phoenix is going to happen, I'm hoping it will, but I'm not exactly dwelling on it.

But we're all people here, including Dragoneer, which may have been part of the reason I've acted the way I did. Of course here I am trying to argue against angry words, and spouting some myself, quite frankly a bit hypocritical. 

The truth is, I'm a bit emotional myself, and I want the site to stay online for a long time. Criticism is of course, good, it helps display flaws that may have otherwise gone unnoticed.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> But we're all people here, including Dragoneer, which may have been part of the reason I've acted the way I did.



Yes, I know Dragoneer is a person, you donâ€™t have to remind me of that. You, on the other hand, might want to remind yourself that Dragoneer is a person and is thus flawed to hell and back; his being the guy who runs FA doesnâ€™t make him the furry Jesus Christ. _He can fuck up, has fucked up, and will fuck up again._



PheagleAdler said:


> Criticism is of course, good, it helps display flaws that may have otherwise gone unnoticed.



And yet you saidâ€¦



PheagleAdler said:


> I'm not gonna say the negativity is unwarranted, but maybe you learn to ignore the people who hate the site, given that they're usually the same people speaking out.



Soâ€¦which is it: criticism is good or criticism should be ignored?


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Yes, I know Dragoneer is a person, you donâ€™t have to remind me of that. You, on the other hand, might want to remind yourself that Dragoneer is a person and is thus flawed to hell and back; his being the guy who runs FA doesnâ€™t make him the furry Jesus Christ. _He can fuck up, has fucked up, and will fuck up again._


Sure he can. Don't mean I'm not gonna respect him.




Freehaven said:


> Soâ€¦which is it: criticism is good or criticism should be ignored?



Good criticism, not anger.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Sure he can. Don't mean I'm not gonna respect him.



Soâ€¦you respect a guy who put FA users' personal information at risk by putting a person with known malicious hacking experience on staff, refuses to address the situation once said hacking history has come to light, repeatedly fails to deliver on promises made to the FA userbase, and basically refuses to act like a responsible administrator?

Huh. Methinks you have a very odd definition of â€˜respectâ€™ if a perpetual fuck-up like â€™Neer can have yours.



PheagleAdler said:


> Good criticism, not anger.



Soâ€¦what, we have to take emotions out of the equation when calling â€™Neer a massive fuck-up? Who the fuck are you, the fucking tone police?


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Soâ€¦you respect a guy who put FA users' personal information at risk by putting a person with known malicious hacking experience on staff, refuses to address the situation once said hacking history has come to light, repeatedly fails to deliver on promises made to the FA userbase, and basically refuses to act like a responsible administrator?
> 
> Huh. Methinks you have a very odd definition of â€˜respectâ€™ if a perpetual fuck-up like â€™Neer can have yours.
> 
> ...



Again, here we are with the swearing. That's unnecessary to get your point across, you can just as easily get by with eloquence and civility.

I respect 'Neer because he runs a website, not because of the promises he's failed to keep or the seemingly questionable hiring practices. What I do know is that running a site like this isn't something an average Joe could do, or pour money as much money into as 'Neer has. It's for his dedication to the site that he has my utmost respect. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of any of his decisions, but I should submit my criticism without yelling and screaming.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Again, here we are with the swearing. That's unnecessary to get your point across, you can just as easily get by with eloquence and civility.



Again, here you are with the tone policing. I will fucking swear as much as I fucking want to and there isnâ€™t a goddamned shiteating cuntlicking cumflinging thing you can do about, you motherfucking asshole. Donâ€™t you fucking dare tell me I canâ€™t be emotional or use certain language when I write/talk/whatever. As I said before: you donâ€™t have the right, and you sure as fuck ainâ€™t getting the privilege.



PheagleAdler said:


> I respect 'Neer because he runs a website, not because of the promises he's failed to keep or the seemingly questionable hiring practices. What I do know is that running a site like this isn't something an average Joe could do, or pour money as much money into as 'Neer has. It's for his dedication to the site that he has my utmost respect. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of any of his decisions, but I should submit my criticism without yelling and screaming.



I used to run TGFB. I fucked up by not making sure to have a backup plan in place with Snipa (the siteâ€™s old codemonkey/host), so when the server crashed, TGFB was essentially dead in the water.

Do I still get your respect because I ran TGFB, or will you go on record as calling me a fuck-up?

I find it odd to give Dragoneer respect for merely running the site because _heâ€™s doing a piss-poor job of running it_ (and if you believe the rumors about his massive debt, heâ€™s doing a piss-poor job of managing his personal finances too).


----------



## Fluffball (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I respect 'Neer because he runs a website, not because of the promises  he's failed to keep or the seemingly questionable hiring practices. What  I do know is that running a site like this isn't something an average  Joe could do, or pour money as much money into as 'Neer has. It's for  his dedication to the site that he has my utmost respect. That doesn't  mean I can't be critical of any of his decisions, but I should submit my  criticism without yelling and screaming.



But how much of that money is 'neer's money and how much of it is from donations given to him by the folks who use this site? You'd think after so many years and so many donations from very generous folks who love this site, 'neer would make a better effort at delivering what he's been promising over the years.

And yet...we're all still waiting for these changes. The only changes we've seen have been largely negative.

So, like many others, I question how much dedication he actually has to this site and its user base.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Again, here you are with the tone policing. I will fucking swear as much as I fucking want to and there isnâ€™t a goddamned shiteating cuntlicking cumflinging thing you can do about, you motherfucking asshole. Donâ€™t you fucking dare tell me I canâ€™t be emotional or use certain language when I write/talk/whatever. As I said before: you donâ€™t have the right, and you sure as fuck ainâ€™t getting the privilege.



I'm just telling you, that makes you look like an angry bitch, and you won't gain a lot of fans from swearing that much.



Freehaven said:


> I used to run TGFB. I fucked up by not making sure to have a backup plan in place with Snipa (the siteâ€™s old codemonkey/host), so when the server crashed, TGFB was essentially dead in the water.
> 
> Do I still get your respect because I ran TGFB, or will you go on record as calling me a fuck-up?
> 
> I find it odd to give Dragoneer respect for merely running the site because _heâ€™s doing a piss-poor job of running it_ (and if you believe the rumors about his massive debt, heâ€™s doing a piss-poor job of managing his personal finances too).



I do give you respect for running a site, like I said, not exactly an easy thing to do, but of course I fault you for not having a backup plan, like I can fault Dragoneer for not getting better DDoS protection years ago.

As far as running the site goes, it's up and running currently, and finances, well what can I say? Americans aren't exactly geniuses with their money.



Fluffball said:


> But how much of that money is 'neer's money and how much of it is from donations given to him by the folks who use this site?
> 
> 
> You'd think after so many years and so many donations from very generous folks who love this site, 'neer would make a better effort at delivering what he's been promising over the years.
> ...



Preeetty sure he keeps those separate or there'd be a bit of a backlash and asking for refunds from those who donate to the site. Also, I don't know how much it costs to run this site, but it's clearly not cheap.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm just telling you, that makes you look like an angry bitch, and you won't gain a lot of fans from swearing that much.



Hey.

Read this next sentence carefully.

_I will use whatever motherfucking language I want in any shitty thing I write, and you donâ€™t have (and will never get) the right or the privilege to tell me otherwise._

Any further attempts at tone policing will be a marker of your inability to comprehend the above sentence, at which point I will repeat itâ€”and will continue to do so until you shut the fuck up with the tone policing. So donâ€™t fucking try it again, okay?



PheagleAdler said:


> I do give you respect for running a site



â€¦you absolute dumbfuck.



PheagleAdler said:


> As far as running the site goes, it's up and running currently, and finances, well what can I say? Americans aren't exactly geniuses with their money.



â€˜FA is up and running right now! _Everything is awesome_!â€™

I repeat: â€¦you absolute dumbfuck.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Hey.
> 
> Read this next sentence carefully.
> 
> ...



Well, can't say I give you respect as a person, then. You're an asshole.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Well, can't say I give you respect as a person, then. You're an asshole.



And now you understand how a lot of us feel about Dragoneer.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> And now you understand how a lot of us feel about Dragoneer.



*shrugs* I don't see _him _cursing up the place


----------



## Fluffball (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm just telling you, that makes you look like an angry bitch, and you won't gain a lot of fans from swearing that much.



Then instead of poo pooing on his foul language, maybe you should just ignore the swearing and reply to the overall message.




PheagleAdler said:


> I do give you respect for running a site, like I said, not exactly an easy thing to do, but of course I fault you for not having a backup plan, like I can fault Dragoneer for not getting better DDoS protection years ago.



What about failing to meet with his promises in rgeards to site improvement over the last so many years? How do you feel about that?



PheagleAdler said:


> As far as running the site goes, it's up and running currently...



The site hasn't exactly been running all too well ever since that DDOS  attack (weeks later, and people are still having connection issues).



PheagleAdler said:


> ...and finances, well what can I say? Americans aren't exactly geniuses with their money.



If it was his own money, that's one thing. When it's money he has received via generous donations from countless supporters, it is expected that he use that money to make the improvements to the site they're using; not donate a portion to other sites and use the remainder for whatever he's been using it on.

Because, what improvements have we seen since the site came back after the DDOS attack? Can you name one?



PheagleAdler said:


> Preeetty sure he keeps those separate or there'd be a bit of a backlash and asking for refunds from those who donate to the site. Also, I don't know how much it costs to run this site, but it's clearly not cheap.



But there's no way of knowing how that donation money has been spent, because 'Neer has not been as forthcoming as he said he would be.

But, we have seen him make several purchases not related to the site (including a new home) shortly after the DDOS attack. So, it's not in the least bit surprising that people are going to become suspicious about where their hard earned money had actually gone to when such purchases are being made, but no improvements to the site have happened.


----------



## Fluffball (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> *shrugs* I don't see _him _cursing up the place



You don't see him do shit all, really.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Fluffball said:


> Then instead of poo pooing on his foul language, maybe you should just ignore the swearing and reply to the overall message.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wasn't expecting improvements to come instantaneously. And 'Neer _does _have other income, do you seriously think he'd take donations from FA and purchase a new home?



Fluffball said:


> You don't see him do shit all, really.



No, I'm not stalking him, of course I don't _see _him do anything. Most of this is behind the scenes anyway.


----------



## Fluffball (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Wasn't expecting improvements to come instantaneously. And 'Neer _does _have other income, do you seriously think he'd take donations from FA and purchase a new home?



'neer has other income, but is also in severe debt. How does someone who is in debt afford a new house?

If we had seen any improvement to this site in the last several years that 'neer has been promising these improvements, I personally wouldn't be so suspicious. But the lack of any improvements and the indebted admin making exuberant purchases so soon after receiving a whopping donation from his user base; it would be shocking if people didn't start questioning how trustworthy this guy is.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Fluffball said:


> 'neer has other income, but is also in severe debt. How does someone who is in debt afford a new house?
> 
> If we had seen any improvement to this site in the last several years that 'neer has been promising these improvements, I personally wouldn't be so suspicious. But the lack of any improvements and the indebted admin making exuberant purchases so soon after receiving a whopping donation from his user base; it would be shocking if people didn't start questioning how trustworthy this guy is.



I have debt...does that mean I simply cannot buy a house? No one's gonna give me a loan? Also, $10,000 is awfully cheap for a house.


----------



## StormyChang (Nov 30, 2014)

...not sure you know how buying a house goes.. more than likely 10k is just a down payment or covering fees and other things required of you when buying a house.  average (good) house is about 200k depending on where you're living.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I have debt...does that mean I simply cannot buy a house? No one's gonna give me a loan? Also, $10,000 is awfully cheap for a house.



Are you really this absentminded that's not something you can afford when your in knee deep in debt that's just makes things worse than it already is. Reading your previous posts already makes it clear you should stop now.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Are you really this absentminded that's not something you can afford when your in knee deep in debt that's just makes things worse than it already is. Reading your previous posts already makes it clear you should stop now.



You STILL need a loan. You can't just make a downpayment and say that you've paid enough. I don't know Neer's financial situation, you don't know his financial situation, but clearly he was able to make it work. Donations to the site did NOT make that happen, and if you think otherwise, you've got your head so far up your ass it's covered in shit.


----------



## StormyChang (Nov 30, 2014)

you don't need to insult people like that just because they were pointing out logic about how buying housing works.  the only way you get a loan while still in debt is for a bank to give astronomical interest rates.  which wouldn't be smart on their part if they're already in debt.  so they either did something fishy, or they're just really dumb and don't know how money/loans work.  but either way it honestly doesn't matter. people were just trying to inform you, in basic terms, how buying a house/loans work.  and considering neer refuses to be transparent in any way of spending for the site in juxtaposition to the earnings of the site, we'll never know what he actually used the money on.  
and if i'm not mistaken you were trying to dig at freehaven for that sort of 'toning' and other words that were 'uncalled for'.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> if you think otherwise, you've got your head so far up your ass it's covered in shit.



You really should avoid language like that. Itâ€™s totally uncalled for in a civil discussion.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

StormyChang said:


> you don't need to insult people like that just because they were pointing out logic about how buying housing works.  the only way you get a loan while still in debt is for a bank to give astronomical interest rates.  which wouldn't be smart on their part if they're already in debt.  so they either did something fishy, or they're just really dumb and don't know how money/loans work.  but either way it honestly doesn't matter. people were just trying to inform you, in basic terms, how buying a house/loans work.  and considering neer refuses to be transparent in any way of spending for the site in juxtaposition to the earnings of the site, we'll never know what he actually used the money on.
> and if i'm not mistaken you were trying to dig at freehaven for that sort of 'toning' and other words that were 'uncalled for'.



Look, I KNOW how buying a house works, someone else was going on about how 'Neer was in debt, and got donations, and bought a house recently.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> You really should avoid language like that. Itâ€™s totally uncalled for in a civil discussion.



well you threw THAT out the window a while ago.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> well you threw THAT out the window a while ago.



At least it has good company with your sense of sarcasm and your ability to truly question Dear Leaderâ€™s decisions.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> you've got your head so far up your ass it's covered in shit.



Funny you say this when yours is up Dragoneer's. Weren't you just lecturing Freehaven about this, you hypocrite?


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> Funny you say this when yours is up Dragoneer's. Weren't you just lecturing Freehaven about this, you hypocrite?



You're fucking hilarious, you twit. Or maybe you missed the entire conversation where I explained that just because I didn't share Freehaven's opinions, that I'm not kissing Dragoneer's ass?


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You're fucking hilarious, you twit.



Why must you insult people? It's not very nice and it's not going to help your cause. 



PheagleAdler said:


> Or maybe you missed the entire conversation where I explained that just because I didn't share Freehaven's opinions, that I'm not kissing Dragoneer's ass?



And yet youâ€™re the one who expressed eternal optimism for Dragoneer to get shit done, said he has no reason to address the Zidonuke situation, and hedged practically every criticism of â€™Neer with some form of â€˜well (x) is bad butâ€™ statement.

If youâ€™re not kissing Dragoneerâ€™s ass, youâ€™re at least close enough to plant your lips if you so desired.


----------



## Mentova (Nov 30, 2014)

Guys please calm down and keep this civil. No need to argue with each other.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 30, 2014)

While our resident Adler  is continuing to fail at civil discussion and making a complete fool of himself. i'll answer a few questions with my opinions myself from Freehaven and Croconaw



Freehaven said:


> I have used FurAffinity for well over eight years. In that time, Iâ€™ve seen competitors rise and fall, and Iâ€™ve seen DeviantArt evolve not just what services it offers, but the entire look of the site itself.
> 
> FurAffinity looks and functions nearly the same now as it did when I first joined the site back in 2006. There has been no evolution. Every promise of improved functionality and a new look for the site has been broken. Dragoneer has destroyed his credibility to the point where any new promises about FurAffinity â€˜getting betterâ€™ have become impossible to take seriously.



Well considering since i've been on DA since July 2004 and FA since December 11 2005 and comparing the two is pretty clear from what your saying. FA is stagnant and refuses to change. Even DA is more open to criticism and improvement on their own site especially since actual professions use it even if you have to search deeply through the site but the forums are another thing. By now DA has exceeded in many things that FA has failed to do so over the years.




Croconaw said:


> It's not about the site perishing: It's about the site being stagnant. And you are a sock puppet/white knight to most people mainly because, for the past few incidents with FA, you're always the first to jump on the "Pshaw! You're just a bunch of drama queens. Dragoneer did nothing wrong!" stance.
> 
> 
> And the real shame of it all is that, because of the timing of when FA was created, it IS going to be the main hub for furry art till dragoneer decides to pull it off life support due to him finding a better way to make money that doesn't revolve around scamming people with phony fundraisers. And what sucks for artists like myself is knowing that we got to use a shit heap like FA to progress in building up a watch base, which is really disgusting given the controversial choices of adminship/broken promises that have occurred since he took over. I mean, the rumors regarding many of the staff and now the Zidonuke controversy being proven fact makes me feel completely dumb for starting on FA in the first place. I wanna say "Welp, fuck this place I'm out of here", but the truth of the matter is, I've received the most feed back on my work on here than on DA or Weasyl combined. It's that disgusting little fact that binds me to FA so closely.
> ...



Well you certainly do know a lot of the situation since most people on FA are afraid of change and stay the same. This in fact is very bad in the long run and boring as well especially FA history of shutdowns which is not even normal for a art website at all. I don't understand though why would anyone rely on one site instead of networking like what most professionals do.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 1, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> While our resident Adler  is continuing to fail at civil discussion and making a complete fool of himself. i'll answer a few questions with my opinions myself from Freehaven and Croconaw



I think he was referring to all of us, sir.

But regarding change to the site, I'm certainly not against it. That having been said, I don't want it to turn into deviantart. DA's far too bloated and customizable. Some people's profiles are miles long, it takes forever to get to the shout section, for example. Loading, don't get me started on that, and at one point they had a problem where notifications would not be removed, they would come back moments after you removed them.

For people who don't like change, perhaps a gradual change to the site would be better. Of course I don't really see that happening if Phoenix arrives, but otherwise it's probably the best way to help people get used to changes to the site, rather then throwing everything at them at once.


----------



## Freehaven (Dec 1, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> But regarding change to the site, I'm certainly not against it. That having been said, I don't want it to turn into deviantart.



â€˜I want changeâ€¦but not too much change! Maybe 1% change, perhaps? Just a microscopic amount of change?â€™



PheagleAdler said:


> Some people's profiles are miles long, it takes forever to get to the shout section, for example.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this isnâ€™t a problem FA has to deal with _how_, exactly?



PheagleAdler said:


> Loading, don't get me started on that



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this isnâ€™t a problem FA has to deal with _how_, exactly?



PheagleAdler said:


> at one point they had a problem where notifications would not be removed, they would come back moments after you removed them.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this isnâ€™t a problem similar to what FA is dealing with at the moment _how_, exactly?



PheagleAdler said:


> For people who don't like change, perhaps a gradual change to the site would be better.



â€˜Give them a single extra link on the front page that does next-to-nothing! Thatâ€™s enough change to last a month, right?â€™



PheagleAdler said:


> Of course I don't really see that happening if Phoenix arrives



AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh wait, youâ€™re serious. Let me laugh even harder.

*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*



PheagleAdler said:


> it's probably the best way to help people get used to changes to the site, rather then throwing everything at them at once.



Actually, tossing them a whole new site at once is probably the best way to help them get used to change. People learn by doing, and so long as the UI is intuitive enough to ease the transition between the old site and the (theoretical, pipe dream, never-gonna-happen) new site, I doubt a radical changeover in design would be enough to make people go â€˜Iâ€™m leaving foreverâ€™.

Shit, Dragoneer put a damn hacker on site staff and the place is still standing. How much could a site makeover really hurt?


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 1, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> â€˜I want changeâ€¦but not too much change! Maybe 1% change, perhaps? Just a microscopic amount of change?â€™
> 
> Actually, tossing them a whole new site at once is probably the best way to help them get used to change. People learn by doing, and so long as the UI is intuitive enough to ease the transition between the old site and the (theoretical, pipe dream, never-gonna-happen) new site, I doubt a radical changeover in design would be enough to make people go â€˜Iâ€™m leaving foreverâ€™.
> 
> Shit, Dragoneer put a damn hacker on site staff and the place is still standing. How much could a site makeover really hurt?



Talk to RT, apparently you guys disagree on some issues. _He's _saying that most people on FA are afraid of change. I just don't want it to turn out like sh*tty DA.

You realize DA has customization, allowing users to add as many 'widgets' as they want to their page, pushing their shouts down to god knows where. On FA, on the other hand, the pages generally stay the same. Thus of course FA doesn't have the problem of scrolling forever to get to the shouts section.

DA's notifications issue is entirely separate. You press the X, and think it's removed, and it comes back 5, 10 seconds later. If you remove a notification on FA, it is GONE. It loads until it's finished, it doesn't go "oh hey, I can't delete this so here's your old notifications back"

Phoenix, if completed, will be a massive overhaul to the site, therefore it would be very different than simply upgrading gradually.

Me? I'm for any change, really. I just don't want the site bloated, I don't know why anyone would want that. Even in the name of extra features. And when I say extra, I mean _extra_, not something like folders or thumbnails or anything else that has been talked about for FA.


----------



## Fluffball (Dec 1, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You realize DA has customization, allowing users to add as many 'widgets' as they want to their page, pushing their shouts down to god knows where. On FA, on the other hand, the pages generally stay the same. Thus of course FA doesn't have the problem of scrolling forever to get to the shouts section.



You clearly haven't seen some of the userpages I've seen. Some are just as bad as DA profiles.



> DA's notifications issue is entirely separate. You press the X, and think it's removed, and it comes back 5, 10 seconds later. If you remove a notification on FA, it is GONE. It loads until it's finished, it doesn't go "oh hey, I can't delete this so here's your old notifications back"



I've never had that issue.

I may delete the notifications, and the numbers don't reflect the change; but refreshing the page after the deletions usually fix that problem.



> Phoenix, if completed, will be a massive overhaul to the site, therefore it would be very different than simply upgrading gradually.



Project Phoenix has been promised for quite some time and still hasn't happened. I think it's a safe bet that if it hasn't happened yet, it never will.



> Me? I'm for any change, really. I just don't want the site bloated, I don't know why anyone would want that. Even in the name of extra features. And when I say extra, I mean _extra_, not something like folders or thumbnails or anything else that has been talked about for FA.



Then what doyou define as extra features, if not folders or thumbnails?


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 1, 2014)

Fluffball said:


> You clearly haven't seen some of the userpages I've seen. Some are just as bad as DA profiles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you seen some DA profiles? The ones with bright pink glitter and 6000 youtube videos and countless widgets littering the page and ugly color schemes etc. Show me an FA profile you think can measure up. Link it here for me, or better yet, note me, don't want to call out anyone.

Project Phoenix isn't dead, but that's all I really know.

Extra features, like the useless crap DA provides that help make your page extra-bloated. If I had a premium account I'd list a few.


----------



## TheArchiver (Dec 1, 2014)

That's your own fault if you make a badly designed page and you can do the same thing in FA's own little way. It will just look like an even uglier mess from 1999. Not that it matters. And a simple news flash as you enjoy being ignorant, most sites have the potential to be customized hideously. Even the most basic like Tumblr (or ones from the stone age like FA). At least DA gives extensive customization options, most of which can be of use for specific personal needs. But it is your choice to utilize them how you see fit.

And we all know that you'd dismiss any and all examples of an ugly FA profile. Don't even try that, White Knight...


----------



## RTDragon (Dec 1, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Talk to RT, apparently you guys disagree on some issues. _He's _saying that most people on FA are afraid of change. I just don't want it to turn out like sh*tty DA.



Actually if you been paying attention to the artists who left FA to go to weasyl i've seen a lot of complaints from the users not wanting to make a profile which proves my point at how stagnant this site is and the fact they can only make money on a site like this tells a lot about the userbase.



Fluffball said:


> You clearly haven't seen some of the userpages I've seen. Some are just as bad as DA profiles.



I have though and to be honest it's pretty bad especially with the plz accounts and emoticion spam. I keep my profile page on FA and DA pretty simple to see.



PheagleAdler said:


> Have you seen some DA profiles? The ones with bright pink glitter and 6000 youtube videos and countless widgets littering the page and ugly color schemes etc. Show me an FA profile you think can measure up. Link it here for me, or better yet, note me, don't want to call out anyone.
> 
> Extra features, like the useless crap DA provides that help make your page extra-bloated. If I had a premium account I'd list a few.



Actually i have a premium account and have supported DA for years. Basically many of the widgets are premium only and not very useful for those who are drawing for a hobby like me. plus there are limitations based on what zone you put them in so there are restraints involved. Since there can only be three widgets each in the Art Zone, and Personal Zone (Misc Zone can have only six widgets in total) So basically not exactly bloated depending on what you need.

EDIT This is the limit on what i am using but there is a limit on how much you can put into any of the zones.


----------



## CaptainCool (Dec 4, 2014)

Turns out that I just didn't notice that my issues were resolved because the notifications didn't go through since the site still doesn't work properly^^ All tickets resolved now!

JUST KIDDING STILL NOTHING!
The oldest three tickets are from August 18th. But as I said, technically the first couple of them are three months older than that because I already closed them and bumped the issues as new tickets...
And before I hear that lame excuse, yes all of these issues I posted in the OP are still very much relevant.
Some of these issues are over half a year old, most of them are about cub smut. COME. ON!


----------



## Croconaw (Dec 4, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> While our resident Adler  is continuing to fail at civil discussion and making a complete fool of himself. i'll answer a few questions with my opinions myself from Freehaven and Croconaw
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Many others and myself do branch out to other sites. The proof still shows that FA yields the best community feed back for views and commissions. It just has (sadly) the perfect population balance. Its a heep of shit, but it has the right amount of people flying about it to get you noticed.


As someone from this recent fender journal states it best: Neer is aware of this issue and is knowingly abusing that fact. We artists are prisoner's of Neer.


----------



## StormyChang (Dec 4, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> As someone from this recent fender journal states it best: Neer is aware of this issue and is knowingly abusing that fact. We artists are prisoner's of Neer.



...and somehow i think he wants it that way -_-  there's this rampant disease among furries that seem to think they're of any importance.  they try to control things.  sad thing about the fandom is, if you can control the artists, you can steer the fandom to a degree.. v.v


----------



## RTDragon (Dec 4, 2014)

I don't think so Neer can't control everyone, That kind mentality can only get so far and already seeing signs of it failing.


----------



## Croconaw (Dec 5, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> I don't think so Neer can't control everyone, That kind mentality can only get so far and already seeing signs of it failing.



Hopefully, it's just a waiting game. I personally would love for FA to get better, but from what I've seen from FA, that ain't a possibility.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

I find it laughable that people actually think artists are prisoners of 'Neer. Look, you can leave at anytime. Just do it. Next thing you'll tell me that cigarettes are preventing you from quitting smoking. Sure, they're addicting, but if you've got the willpower, you CAN quit.


----------



## Croconaw (Dec 5, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I find it laughable that people actually think artists are prisoners of 'Neer. Look, you can leave at anytime. Just do it. Next thing you'll tell me that cigarettes are preventing you from quitting smoking. Sure, they're addicting, but if you've got the willpower, you CAN quit.



It's like you're illiterate or something or fully incapable of reading posts fully before you comment. Then again, I don't expect someone like you to have a clear view of something simple as a forum post considering where your head has been.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> It's like you're illiterate or something or fully incapable of reading posts fully before you comment. Then again, I don't expect someone like you to have a clear view of something simple as a forum post considering where your head has been.



Man, the insults keep coming from you. It's like you're an asshole or something...


----------



## Campion1 (Dec 5, 2014)

Something tells me you enjoy this, Pheagle. Neer is a big boy playing with big toys. (No puns intended) He doesn't need your constant coddling and we don't either.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

Campion1 said:


> Something tells me you enjoy this, Pheagle. Neer is a big boy playing with big toys. (No puns intended) He doesn't need your constant coddling and we don't either.



Something tells me you do too. I don't 'coddle' Dragoneer and I wouldn't touch any of you with a 39 1/2 foot pole. And I'm stick and tired of the same ignorant people coming up with the same retarded conclusions because they feel my opinions don't jive with theirs.


----------



## Kalmor (Dec 5, 2014)

Please keep things civil, guys.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 5, 2014)

Meanwhile, this turned up:







Soooooo... where, exactly, are these "profits" you speak of?


----------



## RTDragon (Dec 5, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Something tells me you do too. I don't 'coddle' Dragoneer and I wouldn't touch any of you with a 39 1/2 foot pole. And I'm stick and tired of the same ignorant people coming up with the same retarded conclusions because they feel my opinions don't jive with theirs.



Considering i saw your reply on my visitor page, and it's clear you still ignorant you don't know very much about the situations before 2009 since that's when you first made your account. Please do everyone a favor and keep your beak shut especially for those who actually use FA for a business.


----------



## Duality Jack (Dec 5, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I find it laughable that people actually think artists are prisoners of 'Neer. Look, you can leave at anytime. Just do it. Next thing you'll tell me that cigarettes are preventing you from quitting smoking. Sure, they're addicting, but if you've got the willpower, you CAN quit.


Your emotional entanglements are frightfully obvious. Revise your biases, and I will discuss with you later.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Considering i saw your reply on my visitor page, and it's clear you still ignorant you don't know very much about the situations before 2009 since that's when you first made your account. Please do everyone a favor and keep your beak shut especially for those who actually use FA for a business.



Why would I know anything that happened prior to when I joined the site?



Jack Arclight said:


> Your emotional entanglements are frightfully obvious. Revise your biases, and I will discuss with you later.



You don't know my biases, but you can discuss with me now


----------



## TheArchiver (Dec 5, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You don't know my biases



We do. You do a comedically horrible job at hiding them.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> We do. You do a comedically horrible job at hiding them.



That's not a word. And you still don't. If you did, you wouldn't have such an inaccurate opinion about me.


----------



## TheArchiver (Dec 5, 2014)

No room to correct grammar Mr. S*t*ick and tired. Or anything anyone on this entire forum has to say really. 
But that useless point aside, the only inaccuracies are your misguided belief that Dragoneer has actually done anything to improve this site or do right by the fanbase. Typically we call defending that which is severely faulted a bias of some sort. Or just blind. Or sockpuppeting.

EDIT: Also, I would like to point this poorly thought and tired statement to attention.



PheagleAdler said:


> I find it laughable that people actually think artists are prisoners of 'Neer. Look, you can leave at anytime. Just do it. Next thing you'll tell me that cigarettes are preventing you from quitting smoking. Sure, they're addicting, but if you've got the willpower, you CAN quit.



First, terrible analogy. 
Second, hyperbole. No one actually thinks artists are prisoners of Neer (that is nightmare fuel). 
Third and finally, how do you miss the obvious? The artists who make a living on commissions use FA the most as it's the most lucrative site for their product. Period. It's an awful site build with trash admins (forum mods are exempt), and people who cannot demand better and fight those that try. You. But it's the best place to do business (for many people)
 I've stated earlier and am finding I must repeat myself when I stress that it's not feasible even combining sites to make a reasonable profit as you can here. Quitting FA would not help as your fanbase is not guaranteed to follow (for some inexplicable reason). Many artists attempted that last year and unfortunately had to crawl back.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> No room to correct grammar Mr. S*t*ick and tired. Or anything anyone on this entire forum has to say really.
> But that useless point aside, the only inaccuracies are your misguided belief that Dragoneer has actually done anything to improve this site or do right by the fanbase. Typically we call defending that which is severely faulted a bias of some sort. Or just blind. Or sockpuppeting.



Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

Actually, I defend no one. I wouldn't go as far as saying Dragoneer hasn't done _anything _to the site, that's a bit ridiculous, but I'm not defending his actions, that's his job. The only thing I am doing is _not _being an asshole to him, maybe that's new to you?


----------



## RedSavage (Dec 5, 2014)

Well I'm going to be respectful and say: Dragoneer has sorely neglected the site, and sadly has made some very bad business, PR, and hiring decisions. He has made more promises that he's kept. And at this point I'm simply jaded.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 5, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> Well I'm going to be respectful and say: Dragoneer has sorely neglected the site, and sadly has made some very bad business, PR, and hiring decisions. He has made more promises that he's kept. And at this point I'm simply jaded.



Okay, and that's fair to say. Funny signature BTW


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Dec 6, 2014)

Mentova said:


> Guys please calm down and keep this civil. No need to argue with each other.



One _could_ argue in a civil manner. 

I know it hardly ever happens on here, but that's because this fandom is like Moses's Jews. You can't stop these motherfuckers. They're just ravenous. 

But I kinda like that chaos :V


----------



## Freehaven (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I wouldn't go as far as saying Dragoneer hasn't done _anything _to the site, that's a bit ridiculous



No, it isnâ€™t.

Oh sure, he may have bought new hardware to keep the site going, but anyone with a growing artsite would do that. But beyond the hardware stuff (which is basic-level bullshit undeserving of praise), what has he actually done since he took over ownership of FA to enhance, improve, or otherwise upgrade this site? I donâ€™t see folder functionality. The promised UI overhauls have shown no sign of ever becoming a reality. Notification issues, unanswered Trouble Tickets, the nepotism of staff hirings, and a distinct lack of timeliness when it comes to staff dealing with issues of all kinds continue to plague FA.

Every time someone questions Dear Leaderâ€™s abilities and decisions, he shoves his head in the sand and waits for things to blow overâ€”then he offers a worthless statement where he ducks as much responsibility as possible (he canâ€™t duck it _all_, of course) while saying all the things he thinks people want to hear so theyâ€™ll get off his back. Remember: _two weeks_ passed between Zidonukeâ€™s identity coming to light and Dragoneer addressing the situation (through Chase).

People like TheArchiver and I arenâ€™t being assholes to Dragoneer when we question his ability to run this site like a fucking adultâ€”well, no more of an asshole than heâ€™s been to the furry community by running FA in such an incompetent and half-assed way.


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## PheagleAdler (Dec 6, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> No, it isnâ€™t.
> 
> Oh sure, he may have bought new hardware to keep the site going, but anyone with a growing artsite would do that. But beyond the hardware stuff (which is basic-level bullshit undeserving of praise), what has he actually done since he took over ownership of FA to enhance, improve, or otherwise upgrade this site? I donâ€™t see folder functionality. The promised UI overhauls have shown no sign of ever becoming a reality. Notification issues, unanswered Trouble Tickets, the nepotism of staff hirings, and a distinct lack of timeliness when it comes to staff dealing with issues of all kinds continue to plague FA.
> 
> ...



I'm sure he has a dayjob, just like a lot of us here, the site is unfortunately not the only thing in his life.

And yeah, it kinda is ridiculous to say he hasn't done anything. That was the sentence, it wasn't "he hasn't done this specific thing" it was "he hasn't done anything" which is a lie. Off the top of my head, I can recall the Commission Info tab, larger thumbnails, fixing Blocking functionality to include faves, adding the option to disable your user page or hide your favorites, another way to use the iconusername functionality, and modifying the Category and Type categories.

You're right, the UI overhaul has been promised many times. Trouble tickets go months without responses (even a few of my own). However, notification issues are being fixed as we speak, but apparently you're too ignorant to notice that. 

So yes, there have been failed promises, and the site could use some improvement. But please, don't tell me Dragoneer's done zipola to the site, because that's clearly not the case. I can exaggerate too, but it wouldn't help my case at all, nor does it help yours. Lying decreases your credibility. Please try to remember that.


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## Phausk (Dec 6, 2014)

I've been mostly watching things from the sidelines, and decided to pop my head out for a bit. I'm trying to stay somewhat neutral, but I think people have a right to criticize the system and how it's run. That's not to say Dragoneer has to listen to them, but I think he should take their opinions into consideration if he wants to see the site to continue to thrive. For instance, I think the issue with broken comments should be a high priority, because well, it's a pretty glaring bug and makes comment chains difficult to follow. How long has that been going on for exactly? 

Also this might be a bit off topic but lately I've had this strong desire to work on the site and fix it up as much as I can. Not that I think I'm great or that the current staff are incompetent, but it looks like they could be overwhelmed or busy. I offered to volunteer coding for the site, but I'm not sure if Dragoneer rejected the idea or not, as I haven't gotten a response back yet.


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## StormyChang (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm sure he has a dayjob, just like a lot of us here, the site is unfortunately not the only thing in his life.
> 
> And yeah, it kinda is ridiculous to say he hasn't done anything. That was the sentence, it wasn't "he hasn't done this specific thing" it was "he hasn't done anything" which is a lie. Off the top of my head, I can recall the Commission Info tab, larger thumbnails, fixing Blocking functionality to include faves, adding the option to disable your user page or hide your favorites, another way to use the iconusername functionality, and modifying the Category and Type categories.
> 
> ...



of course he has a day job, he has to pay some of his bills after all, can't just push them all into his debt folder.
but you do realize if there was a good coder/programmer or a couple of good ones working on the site, all of the things you mentioned they 'fixed' (btw, half of them broke again) *and* all of the things that freehaven mentioned, probably with the exception of the UI, could have been wrapped up within a year.  hell, probably the UI too.  they keep doing little things and fussing with little code and honestly what it turns into is if you had a giant gash in the gut and you tried to fix it with those little kiddie bandages.  it's just not going to work unless you do something more heavy duty and extreme.


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## StormyChang (Dec 6, 2014)

Phausk said:


> Also this might be a bit off topic but lately I've had this strong desire to work on the site and fix it up as much as I can. Not that I think I'm great or that the current staff are incompetent, but it looks like they could be overwhelmed or busy. I offered to volunteer coding for the site, but I'm not sure if Dragoneer rejected the idea or not, as I haven't gotten a response back yet.



no, the deal is this, neer only hires his bestest best buddies.  there are many people using fa that are great programmers, coders, have been moderators for other sites and forums, people with real skill.  i used to moderate a furry forum, solving disputes.  basically the trouble ticket system here.  the last 3 times there's been a call for applications just to help ease the trouble ticket situation, i've applied. and it's not just me, but tons of other people dont hear back.  then suddenly two or three of neer's bestest buds show up as new mods or to help with trouble tickets.  he doesn't really look into a person's actual skill set.


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## Freehaven (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> And yeah, it kinda is ridiculous to say he hasn't done anything. That was the sentence, it wasn't "he hasn't done this specific thing" it was "he hasn't done anything" which is a lie. Off the top of my head, I can recall the Commission Info tab, larger thumbnails, fixing Blocking functionality to include faves, adding the option to disable your user page or hide your favorites, another way to use the iconusername functionality, and modifying the Category and Type categories.



Putting band-aids on a bullet wound can technically count as â€˜doing somethingâ€™ about the bullet wound, _but it ainâ€™t doing much that actually helps_.



PheagleAdler said:


> You're right, the UI overhaul has been promised many times. Trouble tickets go months without responses (even a few of my own). However, notification issues are being fixed as we speak, but apparently you're too ignorant to notice that.



Notification issues wouldnâ€™t have been a thing if â€™Neer had actually listened toâ€¦well, pretty much everyone not named Yak whoâ€™d pointed out how the notification database could be optimized to prevent this bullshit from happening (deceased/banned accounts not receiving notifications, for starters).



PheagleAdler said:


> So yes, there have been failed promises, and the site could use some improvement. But please, don't tell me Dragoneer's done zipola to the site



Like I said earlier: band-aids on a bullet wound. He keeps giving you a little â€˜progressâ€™ every now and againâ€”â€˜The Commissions tab that was broken for so long is back!â€™; â€˜You can do mentions this way now!â€™; â€˜Now you can disable your userpage in case you think this site sucks!â€™â€”to distract you from the real problems plaguing both this site and its administration.

Your continued defense of Dragoneer as someone competent enough to run this site speaks to how well heâ€™s distracted you.


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> >>still at it


Soooooomeone has their eyes on a staff position~~~


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## Fluffball (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I find it laughable that people actually think artists are prisoners of 'Neer. Look, you can leave at anytime. Just do it. Next thing you'll tell me that cigarettes are preventing you from quitting smoking. Sure, they're addicting, but if you've got the willpower, you CAN quit.



Let's put this in a way you might - hopefully - understand.

Though there are other art sites out there that are superior to how FA is run, they don't have anywhere near the same traffic that FA does; thus, the interest in auctions and art sales decrease significantly.

As an example - here, on FA, I have over 13k watchers. Usually, when I place up auctions, most tend to sell for at least the base price I have them listed for.

On a couple of other sites I use (when FA is having one of its near constant downtimes), I don't even have 1/3 of the watchers I have here, and I'm damned lucky if even one of my auctions sells, even at a ridiculously reduced rate (which, obviously, isn't good for business).

So, the fact is, many artists (including myself) want to leave - but can't - because it would be financial suicide if we do. We rely on our customer base in order to make the money to pay our bills; and if our customer base refuses to budge from this site, we're forced to stay here.

Are you getting it, yet?


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## RTDragon (Dec 6, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> Soooooomeone has their eyes on a staff position~~~



I don't think he would make a good staff since he does'nt know much about civil discussion or FA history. considering he doesn't even know much about DA premium membership.


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 6, 2014)

Unfortunately these aren't entry criteria. The best chances of accession to mod rank have members of Piche's social circle, period.

And our lil' eagle does his best to brownnose into it.


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## CaptainCool (Dec 6, 2014)

Ladies, ladies! Let's keep this mess on track, shall we? :V

Meanwhile I just saw someone on the main site "reissuing" images from other artists, "improved" versions of the original images as he puts it. He even has a Patreon page for this... But you know what? I just can't be bothered to report this. Because I know that nothing will be done about it anyway!
Keep in mind that this is coming from one of the biggest AUP-nazis ever. But if the mods don't give a shit, why should I give one?


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## PheagleAdler (Dec 6, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> Ladies, ladies! Let's keep this mess on track, shall we? :V
> 
> Meanwhile I just saw someone on the main site "reissuing" images from other artists, "improved" versions of the original images as he puts it. He even has a Patreon page for this... But you know what? I just can't be bothered to report this. Because I know that nothing will be done about it anyway!
> Keep in mind that this is coming from one of the biggest AUP-nazis ever. But if the mods don't give a shit, why should I give one?



Because it's your moral duty? Besides, if you don't report it, how will they know?




Fluffball said:


> Stuff about not being able to leave the site




Yeah, it sucks, don't it? Not being popular enough to have loyal customers that will move with you? I think if you have that big of a problem with the site, you'll leave anyway.




Freehaven said:


> Putting band-aids on a bullet wound can technically count as â€˜doing somethingâ€™ about the bullet wound, _but it ainâ€™t doing much that actually helps_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gee, maybe you haven't noticed where someone stated that Dragoneer hadn't _done a thing_ for the site? I was just explaining that wasn't exactly true. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that, smartass.



RTDragon said:


> I don't think he would make a good staff since he does'nt know much about civil discussion or FA history. considering he doesn't even know much about DA premium membership.



I'd love a DA premium membership, so I don't have to look at advertisements (already have adblock) and I can make my user page look like shit! Yeah, glitter and 1000 pointless boxes everywhere!


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## CaptainCool (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Besides, if you don't report it, how will they know?



They won't know anyway because they are not looking at my tickets.


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## PheagleAdler (Dec 6, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> They won't know anyway because they are not looking at my tickets.



You'll never know until you try.


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## RTDragon (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'd love a DA premium membership, so I don't have to look at advertisements (already have adblock) and I can make my user page look like shit! Yeah, glitter and 1000 pointless boxes everywhere!



Someone wasn't paying anything attention to my previous posts about premium membership. As well as still not getting it talk about a massive tool.


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## PheagleAdler (Dec 6, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Someone wasn't paying anything attention to my previous posts about premium membership. As well as still not getting it talk about a massive tool.



Wow..how much do you use DA? Never? Have you seen the idiots who get a DA membership? They make their pages look bloated and tacky.


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## CaptainCool (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You'll never know until you try.



Didn't you read this thread? I made it because I have trouble tickets that are 6 months old and so far the best response from the mods that I got was "check if your issues are still relevant"...


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## RTDragon (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Wow..how much do you use DA? Never? Have you seen the idiots who get a DA membership? They make their pages look bloated and tacky.



I use it a lot been on DA for ten years, and do scheduled uploads which is very helpful if you have a lot of things to submit to your gallery. Which is why it's fairly easy for me to upload artwork. 
Though if you looked at my or others DA pages you would have seen this as well as how i use plz accounts when i am open for trades and requests.


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## PheagleAdler (Dec 6, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> Didn't you read this thread? I made it because I have trouble tickets that are 6 months old and so far the best response from the mods that I got was "check if your issues are still relevant"...



Well perhaps they ought to fix that then, I don't think it's acceptable for tickets to sit around 'collecting dust'


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## CaptainCool (Dec 6, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Well perhaps they ought to fix that then, I don't think it's acceptable for tickets to sit around 'collecting dust'



I find it extremely interesting that we are on page 6 already, you have been posting a lot in here and yet you just now found out what this thread is actually about XD


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## StormyChang (Dec 6, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> I find it extremely interesting that we are on page 6 already, you have been posting a lot in here and yet you just now found out what this thread is actually about XD



yanno what i think he does..?  just skims through the thread to find where his name is, then sees if anyone replies to him, then replies directly to that.  his response about just 'fixing' the issue literally made my jaw drop.  making someone who is usually always full of opinions and words actually become speechless is quite a feat! but that's not even remotely a compliment.. -_-


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## PheagleAdler (Dec 6, 2014)

let's face it...this thread has become about a lot more than tickets X.X


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## Duality Jack (Dec 6, 2014)

trying to make posts like this to encourage the staff to fix these issues is like trying to bail out a ship sinking while using a ladle. 

Regardless the site is being treated atrociously by staff with little to no transparency which is causing a bloated mess to become a gamble for people who depend on it for income. (which I do not personally feel is wise to depend on) Not only that it has an atmosphere of middle-school level drama and petty snippy bullshit so evident in places full of people with feelings of powerlessness. 

It's a cesspool of mismanagement and social bullshit with a few diamonds thrown in and people are starting to move on.


Freehaven said:


> Then sit down and stop spewing your ego-boosting bullshit.


 I am sure the poster you are replying too is ... too intimately involved to be neutral.


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## RTDragon (Dec 6, 2014)

Either that or a complete apathetic white knight.


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## Duality Jack (Dec 6, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Either that or a complete apathetic white knight.


There was twitter links earlier that implied familiarity or possibly intimacy.


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## Kalmor (Dec 6, 2014)

Annnnd locking the thread. I've warned about uncivility in the past couple o' pages. This isn't how you discuss things like mature adults guys. Prove to me that you all can have an actually have an insightful, informative conversation about it then you might just ~get somewhere~ with understanding each other's viewpoints. Spewing hate and vitriol only makes things so much worse.


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