# 90 minute downtime? Excuse me if I am skeptical



## maxgoof (Jan 6, 2015)

So, this coming Saturday FA will be down for up to 90 minutes (the official work is 30, but will leave the window open for 90).

And they plan to:
1) Add more RAM
2) Remove an unused server
3) Install a new server

Excuse me for being skeptical, but if I wanted to just add more RAM to my desktop computer, I would very likely use more than 30 minutes to accomplish this. Install a new server? At least the same amount of time. Remove an unused one? Okay, that can be done pretty quickly, if one simply disconnects it, then brings up the system, and while it is coming up, you dispose of the unused server.

I don't see this taking less than 2 hours. More likely 3 or 4.


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## Crunchy_Bat (Jan 6, 2015)

Maybe they have more than one person :O!!!!


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jan 6, 2015)

I've read in an old thread about a cyberhacking admin in FA. Can anyone remind me of that?


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## AliothFox (Jan 6, 2015)

maxgoof said:


> So, this coming Saturday FA will be down for up to 90 minutes (the official work is 30, but will leave the window open for 90).
> 
> And they plan to:
> 1) Add more RAM
> ...



Eh.  Honestly if it's scheduled down time for a change, I don't really care.  They SEEM to be starting the New Year off on the right foot, and personally, I'm just glad to know that stuff is getting done.  I can deal with a little bit of scheduled down time if it means they're improving the site.


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## Taralack (Jan 6, 2015)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> I've read in an old thread about a cyberhacking admin in FA. Can anyone remind me of that?



They stepped down. Quite a while ago, actually. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6311970/ scroll down to the bottom of the post


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## AliothFox (Jan 6, 2015)

Taralack said:


> They stepped down. Quite a while ago, actually. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6311970/ scroll down to the bottom of the post



It boggles MY mind that he was taken on board in the first place.  But I'd say the site's owners have already been sufficiently thrashed for THAT mistake in one form or another.


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## Migoto Da (Jan 6, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> It boggles MY mind that he was taken on board in the first place.  But I'd say the site's owners have already been sufficiently thrashed for THAT mistake in one form or another.


Yes, it is, as they say, a dead horse that's been beaten already.
It /seems/ that this year is starting off on a good note; however, my hopes are not particularly high.
I hope to be proven wrong, but... you know. You get used to this stuff.


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## StormyChang (Jan 6, 2015)

well, fa has a history of saying one thing and doing another, especially with 'downtime'.  30 mins will end up equaling 3 days.  like last winter.. when it was down for over a week


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## maxgoof (Jan 6, 2015)

The problem, as I've said before, is that FA has a history of horribly underestimating the time it takes to do things. They've gotten better. Not EVERY scheduled downtime goes overtime, but it happens more often than it doesn't.

See, if they said that the site would be down for six hours, and it only takes one, that's fine. Nobody will complain about downtime being less than estimated.

Now, I'm stating right here and now that if the downtime is less than two hours, I will apologize.


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 6, 2015)

I wonder if they mean the server that was never in use after they bought it...


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## AliothFox (Jan 6, 2015)

maxgoof said:


> The problem, as I've said before, is that FA has a history of horribly underestimating the time it takes to do things. They've gotten better. Not EVERY scheduled downtime goes overtime, but it happens more often than it doesn't.
> 
> See, if they said that the site would be down for six hours, and it only takes one, that's fine. Nobody will complain about downtime being less than estimated.
> 
> Now, I'm stating right here and now that if the downtime is less than two hours, I will apologize.



But I don't get it.  Why complain about something before it even happens?  That just seems like drama for the sake of drama.


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## Socks the Fox (Jan 6, 2015)

I predict everything will go swimmingly until they try and bring the upgraded server back online. Startup is the most common time for hard drive failure. Hopefully they have a plan in place if that happens (ha.)


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## Felixpath (Jan 6, 2015)

The last time they took things down for maintenance, the downtime was about as long as they said it'd be. Even if it's a couple hours, so what? Read a book, play a game, take a walk, survive without FA for a little while. You can do it. I believe in you. And fairies.


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## SparkyWolf (Jan 6, 2015)

Dido. I don't see that sorta thing taking a mere 90 minutes, especially knowing the people that run the site.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jan 6, 2015)

Why are you guys so affected by the downtime? There is nothing there but porn and there is no decent communication aside from people kissing asses.


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## StormyChang (Jan 7, 2015)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Why are you guys so affected by the downtime? There is nothing there but porn and there is no decent communication aside from people kissing asses.



Because yea, who uses this site to make a living? Psh, that's silly, no one does that.


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## AliothFox (Jan 7, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> Because yea, who uses this site to make a living? Psh, that's silly, no one does that.



Oh, but it's a free site, silly.  You're supposed to plan better and just suck it up and smile when this site goes down, remember?  At least that's what everyone tells ME when the site goes down.


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 7, 2015)

50 quatloos say notes, thumbnails, watches and submission uploading will be broken.


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## StormyChang (Jan 7, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> Oh, but it's a free site, silly.  You're supposed to plan better and just suck it up and smile when this site goes down, remember?  At least that's what everyone tells ME when the site goes down.



people tell me that, and i just laugh.  XD cause it's not free for me, i pay for adspace semi-regularly.  so i sure as shit have the right to bitch and be upset when fa mods/admins dont follow through on their word.  ^^
but free or not, they are running a service that has explicit and implied responsibilities to the users.
but this is really a whole other can of worms that i'm really just not gonna get into.  people tend to lose their minds over this sorta stuff.


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## AliothFox (Jan 7, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> people tell me that, and i just laugh.  XD cause it's not free for me, i pay for adspace semi-regularly.  so i sure as shit have the right to bitch and be upset when fa mods/admins dont follow through on their word.  ^^
> but free or not, they are running a service that has explicit and implied responsibilities to the users.
> but this is really a whole other can of worms that i'm really just not gonna get into.  people tend to lose their minds over this sorta stuff.



Well, to be fair, it DOES say in the TOS that FA does not guarantee up-time, but still.  They're not OBLIGED to keep the site up and meet people's expectations, but even if the site is free, it's super unprofessional for them NOT to update people when the site goes down (as it happens, not 3+ hours after the fact), even if it's just to say "We're aware of the problem and are looking into it."


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## StormyChang (Jan 7, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> Well, to be fair, it DOES say in the TOS that FA does not guarantee up-time, but still.  They're not OBLIGED to keep the site up and meet people's expectations, but even if the site is free, it's super unprofessional for them NOT to update people when the site goes down (as it happens, not 3+ hours after the fact), even if it's just to say "We're aware of the problem and are looking into it."



once someone starts paying for a site/service, it is disgustingly unprofessional to not keep schedule, and yes, they do become obligated at that point (it would be like someone paying for a commission and an artist just not doing it).  it doesn't really matter what their tos says about up time.  i get it, sites go down for whatever the reason may be; but in all honesty, their management of the site is just piss poor at best when it comes to this.


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## AliothFox (Jan 7, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> once someone starts paying for a site/service, it is disgustingly unprofessional to not keep schedule, and yes, they do become obligated at that point (it would be like someone paying for a commission and an artist just not doing it).  it doesn't really matter what their tos says about up time.  i get it, sites go down for whatever the reason may be; but in all honesty, their management of the site is just piss poor at best when it comes to this.



I don't disagree - just playing Devil's Advocate, so to speak.  My point is, even though they're under no LEGAL obligation to keep schedule, it's very unprofessional when they don't.  And even THAT wouldn't bother me so much if they were a little more transparent about it.  But any time the site goes down, getting an update on what's going on is like pulling teeth - because FA's management assumes that EVERYONE is on Twitter (when they even bother to update that).  And people always come here and say "They're too busy fixing the site to give an update!"  BS.  Every other furry site - SoFurry, Weasyl, Inkbunny (to my knowledge; I don't have an IB but I follow them on Twitter) - is prompt with updates when their sites go down, and they usually get fixed faster.  Granted, they're smaller sites and, as a result, don't have a lot of the same problems that FA has, but even so.  I get that FA doesn't have enough staff to keep up with the demand, but when that becomes a consistent excuse for keeping a huge user base in the dark, there's a big problem.  They SEEM to be trying to get their act together on that for the new year, but not much to do except wait and see how it goes.

By the same token, I think one thing that is ALSO getting out of hand is the fact that bashing Dragoneer has somehow become the fashionable thing to do whenever the site hiccups.  Neer isn't perfect (and Lord knows he's probably sick to death of me pestering him about stuff), but he contributes a LOT to the fandom and really gets very little in return.  There's never any assumption of good faith towards him, and even when he seems to be taking positive steps, he often gets immediately slapped down with "Nope.  Not good enough."  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone - there's a lot involved in operating a site as large as FA, and I don't think he gets credit where it's due a lot of times.  That's not to say he doesn't make his mistakes, but I do think the community as a whole should have a bit more respect for him.


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## StormyChang (Jan 7, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> I don't disagree - just playing Devil's Advocate, so to speak.  My point is, even though they're under no LEGAL obligation to keep schedule, it's very unprofessional when they don't.  And even THAT wouldn't bother me so much if they were a little more transparent about it.  But any time the site goes down, getting an update on what's going on is like pulling teeth - because FA's management assumes that EVERYONE is on Twitter (when they even bother to update that).  And people always come here and say "They're too busy fixing the site to give an update!"  BS.  Every other furry site - SoFurry, Weasyl, Inkbunny (to my knowledge; I don't have an IB but I follow them on Twitter) - is prompt with updates when their sites go down, and they usually get fixed faster.  Granted, they're smaller sites and, as a result, don't have a lot of the same problems that FA has, but even so.  I get that FA doesn't have enough staff to keep up with the demand, but when that becomes a consistent excuse for keeping a huge user base in the dark, there's a big problem.  They SEEM to be trying to get their act together on that for the new year, but not much to do except wait and see how it goes.
> 
> By the same token, I think one thing that is ALSO getting out of hand is the fact that bashing Dragoneer has somehow become the fashionable thing to do whenever the site hiccups.  Neer isn't perfect (and Lord knows he's probably sick to death of me pestering him about stuff), but he contributes a LOT to the fandom and really gets very little in return.  There's never any assumption of good faith towards him, and even when he seems to be taking positive steps, he often gets immediately slapped down with "Nope.  Not good enough."  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone - there's a lot involved in operating a site as large as FA, and I don't think he gets credit where it's due a lot of times.  That's not to say he doesn't make his mistakes, but I do think the community as a whole should have a bit more respect for him.



IB is fabulous.  they just did a fundraiser for a server.. i think it was? and they set up a journal that was linked on a header, visible on every page (unless you opt to manually close it) that itemized why things cost so much, what items they were paying for, who was going to use the money, and where it was going. and left the comments open to questions, with an faq at the bottom.  i was quite impressed. ^^
i dont really blame neer so much for anything except EXTREMELY poor choices in his staff.  he lets sciggles run amok, not to mention his other admins are rarely ever on the same page, one coder?  one?! and i'm not sure how hard it is to actually hire more admins even just for trouble tickets when it's not even an issue of money.  cause they aren't being paid.. so why is there a problem with getting more people? it's certainly not a money issue.  and i dare them to say they're protecting people/coding/users, ect. cause we all know his poor judge of character hasn't helped anything. (yes people do make mistakes in life and some of them reform but honestly it's not the norm) i mean i've not talked to him directly, but i have many friends who are good friends of his, and i've been around him at FAU a couple times.  as a person he's not a bad guy.  just... bad at business.. which i guess is what makes everyone so upset.


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## AliothFox (Jan 7, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> IB is fabulous.  they just did a fundraiser for a server.. i think it was? and they set up a journal that was linked on a header, visible on every page (unless you opt to manually close it) that itemized why things cost so much, what items they were paying for, who was going to use the money, and where it was going. and left the comments open to questions, with an faq at the bottom.  i was quite impressed. ^^



That's great   When they ban cub porn, I might make an account there.  Until then, I ain't touching that site with a ten-foot-pole.  



StormyChang said:


> i dont really blame neer so much for anything except EXTREMELY poor choices in his staff.  he lets sciggles run amok, not to mention his other admins are rarely ever on the same page, one coder?  one?! and i'm not sure how hard it is to actually hire more admins even just for trouble tickets when it's not even an issue of money.  cause they aren't being paid.. so why is there a problem with getting more people? it's certainly not a money issue.  and i dare them to say they're protecting people/coding/users, ect. cause we all know his poor judge of character hasn't helped anything. (yes people do make mistakes in life and some of them reform but honestly it's not the norm) i mean i've not talked to him directly, but i have many friends who are good friends of his, and i've been around him at FAU a couple times.  as a person he's not a bad guy.  just... bad at business.. which i guess is what makes everyone so upset.



I agree on all of this, but here's the way I see it - when Neer started FA, I'm pretty certain he wasn't looking to start a business.  He probably just wanted a place where furries could go to socialize and post art.  And he did that.  The site accomplished that, and for all people whine about it, it STILL accomplishes that.  I'm relatively new to the fandom in the grand scheme of things (I've only been active in it for about three years or so), but I still understand how things like this usually start.  So... yes, Neer is not the best businessperson, but he was never TRYING to be a businessperson.  Maybe he's not the best judge of character, but furries (and really, just drama-inclined people in general) are quick to jump on the character of people he's trusted based purely on unfounded rumors that get whipped into a bandwagon of public opinion.  That hasn't ALWAYS been the case; in some cases, he just picked bad people, plain and simple.  But in other cases, it's been people who were probably good but who had one or two dubious things that acted like white knight magnets.


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## StormyChang (Jan 7, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> Maybe he's not the best judge of character, but furries (and really, just drama-inclined people in general)



i think you mean to say 'most people on the internet'  
just about any 12 year old that can smash a keyboard has internet access anymore.  and that's just not always the smartest move. XD


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## AliothFox (Jan 7, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> i think you mean to say 'most people on the internet'
> just about any 12 year old that can smash a keyboard has internet access anymore.  and that's just not always the smartest move. XD



LOL - that's true.  But you still see my point, right?


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## StormyChang (Jan 7, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> LOL - that's true.  But you still see my point, right?



yea, i get it.  also, only 3 years? makes me feel old x.x
i been at this for over 10 years. XD


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## AliothFox (Jan 8, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> yea, i get it.  also, only 3 years? makes me feel old x.x
> i been at this for over 10 years. XD



Yeah.  Well, I've been INTO furries since as long as I can reme- no, scratch that.  I knew I was a furry when Star Fox Adventures came out.  (Because Krystal.  But also Fox.  I love being pansexual X3 )

I've been a lurker on FA for a really long time (and on SoFurry even longer), but it's only been in the last 2-3 years that I've really started doing art and getting involved in the fandom.  Planning on going to my first convention this year, in fact   But that's getting a little off topic, I think.  Honestly, not sure this thread has anywhere left to go.  Though Saturday's down time may change that.


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## StormyChang (Jan 8, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> Yeah.  Well, I've been INTO furries since as long as I can reme- no, scratch that.  I knew I was a furry when Star Fox Adventures came out.  (Because Krystal.  But also Fox.  I love being pansexual X3 )
> 
> I've been a lurker on FA for a really long time (and on SoFurry even longer), but it's only been in the last 2-3 years that I've really started doing art and getting involved in the fandom.  Planning on going to my first convention this year, in fact   But that's getting a little off topic, I think.  Honestly, not sure this thread has anywhere left to go.  Though Saturday's down time may change that.



probably will.  though *gasp* i just noticed.  furries. having a.. a civilized.. conversation?  a-about fa and it's admins?!  omg, it can be done! X3
and i'm old enough to have played those games but i was totally a gameboy (circa pokemon) and playstation (circa FF9) chica.. XD my boyfriend rags on me sometimes about having never played sega or anything. haha.


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## PheagleAdler (Jan 9, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> probably will.  though *gasp* i just noticed.  furries. having a.. a civilized.. conversation?  a-about fa and it's admins?!  omg, it can be done! X3
> and i'm old enough to have played those games but i was totally a gameboy (circa pokemon) and playstation (circa FF9) chica.. XD my boyfriend rags on me sometimes about having never played sega or anything. haha.



You never played Sonic?


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## Taralack (Jan 9, 2015)

Not only is this getting massively off topic, but the downtime came and went and we are all still standing.

Next time OP make this post on Twitter.


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## Kalmor (Jan 9, 2015)

Taralack said:


> Not only is this getting massively off topic, but the downtime came and went and we are all still standing.
> 
> Next time OP make this post on Twitter.


It's still the 9th here. XD Downtime is on the 10th.


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## Taralack (Jan 9, 2015)

Kalmor said:


> It's still the 9th here. XD Downtime is on the 10th.



Oh my god, I am so sorry. For some reason I thought it had happened already.


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## StormyChang (Jan 9, 2015)

nice... and i had a funny response to the sonic post when this got slapped down.  *sigh* can't even remember what it was anymore. but it was witty, i promise.


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## AliothFox (Jan 9, 2015)

StormyChang said:


> nice... and i had a funny response to the sonic post when this got slapped down.  *sigh* can't even remember what it was anymore. but it was witty, i promise.



Awww.  Oh well - before this downtime tomorrow is all said and done, I'm sure you'll have plenty of opportunities to be equally witty X3


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## StormyChang (Jan 9, 2015)

AliothFox said:


> Awww.  Oh well - before this downtime tomorrow is all said and done, I'm sure you'll have plenty of opportunities to be equally witty X3



i am the master of snark.  and of humor so dry it's like a desert. XD  (also of puns and word play. )


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## StevenRoy (Jan 10, 2015)

*Re: 90 minutes downtown? Expunge me if I am spectacles.*

I checked the site at 10:10 (Eastern Time) and it was still up. I checked again at 10:15 and it was down.

So, for those of us placing bets on the duration of this downtime, I'm declaring the "official start time" to be within that 5-minute window.

If the downtime lasts the full 90 minutes, this still means that FA will be back up before noon. (Eastern Time, at least. Those of us in other time zones - like me - will simply have to be patient; maybe go get some exercise or a snack, or watch a movie...)

And how likely is it that it'll last 90 minutes? It should take only a few minutes to shut down the server, maybe 5-10 minutes to dig it out (if necessary) and open it up, a few minutes to put in the new RAM, several more minutes to close it up and put it back, then a few days to boot up the OS...


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## sethtriggs (Jan 10, 2015)

How'd we do timewise? FA is up.


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## StormyChang (Jan 10, 2015)

i didn't time it.  but around 8 it was down.  i gave it an hour and came back a little before 9 and it was up again


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## ealeblanc (Jan 10, 2015)

Note that they didn't actually swap out the HDD. I don't know if that ties into your bets, but certainly, finding out that a part was DOA is faster than configuring a healthy one.


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## StormyChang (Jan 10, 2015)

i would assume so, also, i just tried to get on the site and it's doing that cloudflare error to host thing.


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## FlynnCoyote (Jan 10, 2015)

The downtime was pretty quick. 

But now... Error 524? Error at the host FA's end.


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 10, 2015)

They try to do maintenance and break something in the process?

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!


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## FlynnCoyote (Jan 10, 2015)

Gryphoneer said:


> I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!



Yea, um... I'm glad I missed the boat on that one. Would have lost a fortune. >,>


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## Kesteh (Jan 10, 2015)

Of all the things I've learned in my work career...

Seriously how do you just plan a downtime around a part you don't even have yet? No time to verify, you really depend on it, suddenly "DOA".


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## PheagleAdler (Jan 11, 2015)

Kesteh said:


> Of all the things I've learned in my work career...
> 
> Seriously how do you just plan a downtime around a part you don't even have yet? No time to verify, you really depend on it, suddenly "DOA".



you can't know it's DOA just by looking at it, yanno


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## Socks the Fox (Jan 11, 2015)

But you can test it before you plan to take down a server to use it.

You can also order multiple drives (especially since rebuilding a RAID tends to be kind of hard on them and is probably the second most common cause of failure, following start up).

Hard drives are some of the most sensitive, finicky things humanity has made; any good sysadmin will plan for them to have problems.


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