# Starting Digital Artist Information



## aaronmayhem (Dec 1, 2012)

_I am going to update this frequently and post a ton of links to tutorials and give general info.
Please check back to this thread and maybe bump it from time to time to keep people Informed.
Also give me a couple of weeks of updating before you try to rip it apart. 
I love people to tell me about the programs and give me feedback on them. I want people to be able to make informed decisions about the program they want to get.

If you have links to tutorials for each of the programs send me the links and tell me what program they are for






To Start off a wise Kitten said something that I had to make sure I put in here,
"If you have ability, experience and patience you can do more with the "basic" tools than someone lacking in those qualities could with the "professional" ones." ~Kitten
Remember to keep this in mind if you are new to the digital art scene. I also have to make sure that people understand the talent can be brought out even more given the right tools.
Also that going digital has a ton of advantages but its just a new art form that you have to practice and learn techniques for.
This thread is only to help you find the right tools for you to use.


Things to keep in mind while looking at these programs.
1. How much you are willing to pay 
2. How many tutorials are out there.
3. What you are wanting to accomplish
4. Much time you want to put into learning a program.
5. How powerful your computer is versus the software you want to run.

Program List

*Sai*




Dev by Systemax, site here http://www.systemax.jp/en/sai/
Cost: Free 31 day trial, Then roughtly *70$* American.
When I wrote this the first time I didnt have much exp with this program. Now however this is the main program a lot of people use for digital art. Cost effective and has a lot of what people need to just do digital art. Here is a link to the deviantart page on Sai ~ http://paint-tool-sai.deviantart.com/
This is one of the main programs you see a lot of artist in stream using.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Open Canvas 4*




Dev by Portal Graphics, link to official site http://www.portalgraphics.net/en/oc/
Cost: Has a free trial for you to test out, after that it is roughly *75$* American
Open Canvas has a ton of uses and the best thing it has it the ability from the main site to watch user videos of them making thier own drawings, which sometimes leads to you learning new tricks.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Open Canvas 1* (best thing about this old program is the ability to link up in the program with someone else and draw together)(also free)




Link to Dl . http://sites.google....?attredirects=0
How to switch it to english- http://wistinga.online.fr/opencanvas/
Explaination of that I had found on deviantart. http://pixieface.dev...part-1-50415876


*Art Rage 2  *




Dev by Ambient Design, site here http://www.artrage.com/artrage2.html
Cost: *$19.90!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
Ok now you saw things are a little different from the others.
Personally I love this program, I play with it all the time. I call Art Rage 2 PainterX lite.
This program is great for traditional artists that have painted and such coming to the digital world. This program and Corel Painter (below) emulate real world paints and such. I use this program to speed paint for practice, its just smooth and nice.
I think I have a free trial somewhere on my comp, ill try to upload it. If someone knows a trial hosted online, hit me up so I can add the link.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Adobe Flash *




Dev by Adobe Systems Inc http://www.adobe.com...ucts/flash.html
Cost: Around *300$*
Need someone that uses this to review it for me. I have never used this for art before.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Adobe Streamline*




Dev by Adobe Systems Inc.
Cost: Have to google it, I might find a free version somewhere to post.
Need someone that uses this to review it for me. I have never used this for art before.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Gimp*




Dev by The Gimp Team at http://www.gimp.org/
Cost: Free
Need someone that uses this to review it for me. I have never used this for art before.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Manga Studio/Comic Studio*




Dev by Smith Micro Software
Cost: *$300*  at http://manga.smithmicro.com/ms_ex.html
Need someone that uses this to review it for me. I have never used this for art before.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Adobe photoshop elements*




Dev by
Cost:
Need someone that uses this to review it for me. I have never used this for art before.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon


_


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## aaronmayhem (Dec 1, 2012)

_
*Mainstream Profesional Art Programs *
Had to show that these next to programs are in a class of thier own. First by functions and second by price.
These programs also being such big programs and highly used means they have a million of tutorials for them.
*~~~~Super Tip #1~~~~* Hit up your local college art  departments. A lot of colleges have free shareware versions of these  programs that sometimes they dont mind giving out to aspiring artists.



*Photoshop*




Dev. by Adobe Systems Incorporated, Site here http://www.adobe.com.../photoshop.html
Cost: *Heart Attack * ok to be honest I like having the  newest version of photoshop because this is the program I know the most.  But the starting price of the newest program Photoshop CS5 is around *1000$*. ......ok you awake from fainting yet? Ok not the price for last years Photoshop CS4 is around *350$*  oh I bet you see where I am going with this. If you are paying for this  program look around. After CS2 they havent added a TON of new features  for the artist. CS2 has great set of new things that older versions  didnt have. Also dont forget Super Tip #1
This program has a ton of uses and you can basically think of Sai and  such being the basic program of this. This program has such things as  allowing you to automate tasks. Also you have highly customizable  options for brushes and everything else.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

*Corel Painter X  *




Dev. By Corel Corp. Site here http://www.corel.com...languageCode=en
Cost: Free Trial, then around *400$*
My super classical art program. This emulates so many type of media its  crazy. You have everything from watercolors to oils. So you can see how  this program is really special for artists. This program is highly used  in other countries other than America. Most of the magazines for this  program come from other countries.
I suggest this and Art Rage to people who already have a history using  classical media. The developers of this program put a lot of time into  making the media act the same way it does in real world. But being  digital if you mess up your a click away from correcting it, Mixing  media, or even just using traditional in ways that you never thought of  before.
Links to tutorials:
coming soon

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Dont listen to anyone that tries to push a certain art program on you,  well unless they are going to be the one teaching you it personally and  helping you out.
I have been in the art scene for a while as a hobby and know a lot of  people who are in artistic scene from novice to profesionals.
A lot of artists learn a program and just stick with it. Sometimes you  will see that one program just doesnt make do everything you want. So  like most artists they use multi programs. I know a ton of artist that  like using photoshop for lineart and then use corel painter to finish.
~On that same not the programs themselves get updated alot. I remember  when I first saw the tool that allowed you to rotate your canvas. I was  so jelous because the program I used didnt have it. One month later I  got the new version of my program and they of course stole that idea.  You will notice this happens alot. What your program doesnt have, if its  by a big company they will find a way to add it to thier program soon.  It is very competitive.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
*Art Program buying tips:*
1. Maybe buy an older version of the program you want. You wont have all the features but it gets you going.
2. See if the program you wants comes cheaper if you are upgrading from  an old version, if so look up whats the oldest version that allows you  to upgrade from. Then buy that really old program.
Dont forget Super Tip #1 Hit up your local college art departments. A  lot of colleges have free shareware versions of these programs that  sometimes they dont mind giving out to aspiring artists.

Memory Hogger Warning: ~coming soon

*DID I FORGET AN ART PROGRAM, LET ME KNOW*
adding to the list sometime:

_


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## aaronmayhem (Dec 1, 2012)

How to Choose the right Digitizer Tablet for you.

Strokes matter

*Do you use Brood long strokes when you draw?*
This mean you really need a larger tablet compared to your hand so that you wont have to get over any change in HOW you draw. This mean starting out you have to buy a larger surface area tablet. (as in a 6x8 active area tablet)
*Do you use Short little strokes when you draw?*
Oh cool then, that means you can get away with a cheaper version and smaller one.

Dont let anyone scrub the small ones. (personally I hate them) But I know some American comic book artists that use the cheap Wacom Bamboo (65$) one from Best Buy. Larger area ones will cost you more than the small ones for a good one.

Now note there are many more out there than just from the company Wacom. So shop around.
A lot of them now come with tons of functions too, like extra buttons to quickkey brushes and actions.
*How big is your monitor?*
Wierd question huh?
Ok there are two ways to set up your tablet.




This is the defualt setting of a tablet. The active area is your entire screen. So when you put your pen on the tablet in the upper left corner. Your cursor on the screen will be in the upper left corner. I use a large tablet so its not a problem. But if you have a LARGE display and a little tablet, you will notice that your when you move just the smallest bit on the tablet, you are drawing a large long line on the screen. sooo....




People do this. They change the active setting to a certain portion of thier screen. That way you arent making strokes that are way out of the normal limits. So keep this in mind.
*Do you have a heavy hand?*
That means do yo push down hard with the tip of your pen or pencil when you draw.
With the pen that comes with the tablet it has a little nib at the end, if you are heavy handed you are going to have to learn to not push down hard, you will just either wear down the tib or break the pen.

Choosing The BEST Tablet

Size (Active Area)




As I told you earlier why the size matters. But to explain farther, this area in the middle is your active drawing area. So judge accordingly.
Sensitivity (Pressure Sensitivity)
The higher the better. 2048 seems to be the standard in most now. This is so you can alternate between large and small lines. The higher the sensitivity the better line quality with your pressure you will see.
Pen Tilt Range
This allows you to hold your pens at angles and create more effects. Kind of like calligraphy. You can change the angles of your brush in game.
Nib Replacements
Most the new tablets your nib (the tip of pen) will eventually wear down. Make sure whatever tablet you buy allows you to replace the nibs. That way your not just having to buy a new replacement pen for it.
Warrenty
Well thats enough said. Anyways I like to have a warrenty on anything expensive I buy. That way at least I can have it fixed if something happens to it or there is a technical flaw.
Technical flaws happen from time to time with anything, so its good to have a warrenty if you are unlucky enough to get a bad chip or something in it.
Extra Buttons and Features




In this picture you can see that some tablets have buttons. These are generally fully customizable. So you can set up brushes fast, or even with photoshop you can set up actions (like when I click mine it creates a new layer and sets it as the active layer)


List of Reliable Tablets
Small
~coming soon
Medium
~coming soon
Large
~coming soon

Two other Types of Digitizers.
*1.  Pen Displays*




Now say you are really amped about getting into the art scene, and you want to take it to the next step.
Drawing directly on your screen is amazing and fun. My friend had one of these. Same basic ways of figuring out which one to buy as before. These range in sizes from ones that are the size and thinness as a Ipad all the way up to this 24inch one my friend had. Its amazing really it is much easier to get started after being traditional. Because you are drawing right on what you want to draw.
The cheapest (and best for price that I have found) one of these cost around 700$. Which is much less than the BEST tablet at wacom.
Links to tablets (cheapest to highest)
coming soon

2.  *Wacom Inkling* (yes this gets its own catagory by itself)




Ok now to even throw in something new that I just found out about this week. This thing BLEW MY MIND. But i should have seen it coming.
http://www.wacom.com...ts/Inkling.aspx 
Basically you clip the monitor to your page and then use the pen just like normal. Then you can transfer your normal drawing style right to the computer!!! What a way to do lineart.
Price:
Wacom inkling $199.00
Refil Ink: (havent found a place yet)
Close to the same thing, LogiPen~ cost $130







MORE TO COME SOON:
general art tutorials
tablet art


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## RTDragon (Dec 1, 2012)

This is nice but it's missing some other programs. Such as Autodesk Sketchbook. Though Actually opencavas is version 5.5 currently with some new feature. Another free program is FireAlpaca.


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## aaronmayhem (Dec 1, 2012)

I will be sure to look up everything for those and add them in. Yea I have to update some of the versions that some of them are on, and add in some things about the different features each one has.

Sadly I just found out that I can only have 10 images on each thread though....


Ooops forgot to thank you for pointing those other ones out to me


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 1, 2012)

Corel Painter X? Damn man talk about being behind. 12 is the most recent and not even $400 Not to mention you have 12 in the screenshot, wtf?

Art Rage Studio Pro is out and has more features. 

Don't get me started on the Inkling, overpriced crap

WTF is "Brood" long strokes? - these guys? http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/thumb/4/4d/Brood.jpg/406px-Brood.jpg

Wacom Cintiq 12wx is about $800 btw. 

Yeah you really need to update your info and proofread these. 

*EDIT* Sorry thought you were using multiple accounts but you're the partner of the person that steals stock art and posts it up watermarks and all. Took me a moment.

One last thing btw. We already have most of this info on the Critiques forum. Most of all if you don't know your foundations and practice both traditionally (which I highly encourage) and digitally all this is meaningless.

Spend all the money or not (do not encourage piracy) but if you don't put a lot of practice into this...well it won't save you starting out digitally. Traditionally is better because you have more portability when it comes to drawing from life. Digital coloring is a different animal from Traditional and while Art Rage for example has some good looks towards traditional it is not a replacement for learning how to color mix.


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## aaronmayhem (Dec 1, 2012)

Ok FIRST if your going to accuse someone of stealing art you better have something to back it up. I went through her gallery twice since you said that and the only image I can find where she used a stock art is http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9162001/ where she even credited the person who put up the STOCK art, and the stock art wasnt even a big thing or the center point of the picture. 

Second, You trying to act like you know everything when someone is just trying to help out artist just starting out is pretty much a stupid thing. Didnt I JUST say also in the post right before yours I have to update things. Even if I didnt I would hope someone would be smart enough when they go looking for Corel Painter that they will realize there is more than one version. I mean really, even if I updated it today all perfect, one of these programs could launch another version.

I dont think I asked for people to try to pull everything apart, I understand people trying to add input but when you go about it the way you do all you look like is a few words I would rather not say but usually rhymes with witch. OOOOH I misused a word instead of putting broad I put brood. Is it bad that I accidentally misspelled a word or that you couldnt figure out it was broad instead?

Yea I see them on there now. You did a post on it and now I guess you got all defensive like I am stepping on your toes or something.

How about instead of trying to rip mine apart like your doing, you go edit yours and include more info for people starting out digitally.

As far as your opinion about traditionally being better, thats just your opinion. Last art class I actually took my laptop and tablet into to do some of it. Regardless of if your an amazing traditional painter or not, picking up a wacom pen and using a new program will be a world different. Yes I think people should learn and that isnt even what this post was about. 

Even if you do have a listing or programs I would rather still work on this one and update it and also get peoples opinions about the programs they use so that people can make an educated decision when they decide to go digital. If you want to carry on a discussion about all the stupid things you said please just pm me and not try to act like a dick on here. 
Please also dont spread lies about people.


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## Willow (Dec 2, 2012)

aaronmayhem said:


> Second, You trying to act like you know everything when someone is just trying to help out artist just starting out is pretty much a stupid thing. Didnt I JUST say also in the post right before yours I have to update things. Even if I didnt I would hope someone would be smart enough when they go looking for Corel Painter that they will realize there is more than one version. I mean really, even if I updated it today all perfect, one of these programs could launch another version.
> 
> I dont think I asked for people to try to pull everything apart, I understand people trying to add input but when you go about it the way you do all you look like is a few words I would rather not say but usually rhymes with witch. OOOOH I misused a word instead of putting broad I put brood. Is it bad that I accidentally misspelled a word or that you couldnt figure out it was broad instead?
> 
> ...


Could you calm down a bit maybe?

Arshes was adding in some input because some of your software was a bit outdated and maybe you hadn't thought about it. Also, they weren't saying traditional was better in a general sense. They were saying traditional was better to practice with especially because you can actually take it with you without having to worry about having an outlet to plug into if you have a laptop and draw almost anywhere. 

If anyone's being a dick here, it's you. There is no need to throw a fit over someone giving you constructive criticism.


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## aaronmayhem (Dec 2, 2012)

Well maybe I got mad over Arshes accusing my wife of stealing art and it coming from someone who is supposed to be FA staff. I might have gone overboard. 

But still after calming down and looking at his post there still is stuff in there that isnt constructive criticism. But what was said that was constructive I will take. I said before his post that I will be updating all the info to the most current ( as long as that lasts at least)

I dont want this post to turn into a rage fest and as much as you think you are helping I asked Arshes to pm me if he wants to continue this conversation because that shouldnt be what this thread is about. 

So I would ask you to do the same and keep it on topic and constructive to what the thread is actually about.


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## Taralack (Dec 2, 2012)

aaronmayhem said:


> As far as your opinion about traditionally being better, thats just your opinion. Last art class I actually took my laptop and tablet into to do some of it. Regardless of if your an amazing traditional painter or not, picking up a wacom pen and using a new program will be a world different. Yes I think people should learn and that isnt even what this post was about.



You know nothing Jon Snow

All digital art does is encourage laziness and taking shortcuts. Undo key, filters, blur, dodge/burn, etc. That's how you develop bad habits. Learning traditionally is better as there is more at stake when you make an error, instead of just going "oh I'll just undo that". 

Also I like how your "wife"'s banner says "prety much anything". Check that typo yo.


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## Tiamat (Dec 2, 2012)

Indeed, don't expect to improve on the fundamentals of art through a strictly digital regime. 
Pencil + paper + life drawing is still the purest and fastest way to learn. 

You took your laptop and tablet to an art class? Could you tell me more about this class? 

You are the only one that has turned this into a rage fest so far.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 2, 2012)

aaronmayhem said:


> Well maybe I got mad over Arshes accusing my wife of stealing art and it coming from someone who is supposed to be FA staff. I might have gone overboard.



It's not an accusation but very big fact. - http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9162001/ See this? See those watermarks? That means she doesn't own the material and painted over it. You're advertising her selling commissions. The fact that it's part of your signature while you're trying to give us digital art information. I'd think twice about how it's affecting the information you are trying to present. It looks very bad.

Although it is less about artist skill - because I know a lot of artists better than me, I do know my software and hardware. There is however a lot to be said about foundations and not just pointing out what digital art programs are out there with pictures. 

Inkling is ok, but for the price not very good. It's an interesting step but the problem is, it can only read your input at so much of space, and if you're left handed you're likely to interrupt some of what it can read due to the receiver. Since you can't erase it causes more issues and you may get some pretty garbage results. It's novelty but really not ready for prime time. http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Inkling-Digital-Sketch-MDP123/product-reviews/B005KPUYVA

ArtRage - This program is nifty and I love how it handles watercolors (since it's one of the traditional used media I frequently use) but I know how badly it can shift color. Even in the latest version with "use real color blending" I get weird bands of color when blending that shouldn't happen. Reason? RGB does not equal Traditional paints. It's not just "yellow and blue make green" Certain kinds of paints have hues that are brought out when you mix them with other colors. However, because of learning color theory and putting down mileage (practicing) as an artist I know how to compensate.

The problem with doing digital over traditional is pretty obvious even with your work and your wife's work. Your colors are flat and dull. You keep drawing tangents because you don't understand composition and keep letting the digital device dictate your artwork. You can see by the same size you keep choosing. Choosing the same size canvas isn't always bad and you'll see even professionals do it, but it's after they know how to work a composition - or that they work at that size because of clients. Relying on shortcuts over actual study with limited tools (like pencil and paper) also hurts your progress. It leads less from drawing from life because beginning digital artists think "Google" is all they need instead of going outside and drawing from life. 

The other reason digital still isn't ready for "everywhere you go"? RSI. Lugging a laptop and painting for long periods of time can cause stress on your body. Laptops are also not ergonomic for the most part and will lead to Carpal and Ulnar. That's also when you have a tablet or tablet PC. You have to hold most of these monitors at certain angles to see the screen properly because I can bet you most of you don't have travel tablets/devices that have IPS screens (to prevent color shifting at certain angles). If you're out in the sun with a cheap TFT ...good luck. 



> This is the *defualt* setting of a tablet. The active area is your entire screen. *So when *you put your pen on the tablet in the upper left corner. Your cursor on the screen will be in the upper left corner. I use a large tablet so *its* not a problem. But if you have a LARGE display and a little tablet, *you will notice that your when you *move just the smallest bit on the tablet, you are drawing a large long line on the screen. sooo....



Check out those typos.

*default*
"So when" - incomplete sentence
*it's* not its. IT IS - http://www.youryoure.com/?its
The other one I put in bold is due to the fact you left out the noun you're describing.

There are a lot of typos in your presentation. I'd be here all day trying to proofread it, but seriously... "ill"? You can't spell "I'll" (as in "I will")?
I is a proper noun. Capitalize it. "ill" means "sick"

In addition, I pointed this out because your Wacom tablet information about active area is incorrect. You can map a tablet to match the active area. However, doing so will may cost you the space. It entirely depends on how you draw where this can affect you. 20"-23" Monitors will do fine with a medium sized tablet. Small is good for laptops. However, if you use a smaller tablet where you're not moving your arm as much, and more of your wrist - you can get RSI. This is more of a danger if you are not set up properly. Most people put their tablets to the middle of the screen, and not to the side where their dominant drawing hand will rest. This means, if I'm left handed, the tablet should sit more to the left and if you're right handed, the tablet should sit more to the right of you. 

If you run multiple monitors, like I do and you map to both monitors - you'll want a large. The mapping causes a lot of space lost.

But Wacom does this better than your tutorial
[yt]ClDSx_wE-sE[/yt]



> Do you have a heavy hand?
> That means do yo push down hard with the tip of your pen or pencil when you draw.
> With the pen that comes with the tablet it has a little nib at the end, if you are heavy handed you are going to have to learn to not push down hard, you will just either wear down the tib or break the pen.



This info is incorrect, and I don't know where you get this from. You can compensate for heavy handedness through several methods.

So here's a submission to a link to a youtube video - http://www.furaffinity.net/view/7804106/

Oh hey, I'll also, just post the video directly. 
[yt]GEAHBJo7C5g/[/yt]


So...I say again. Please proofread. If your information is wrong - I'm going to pick it apart because ...

1. It looks like you didn't pay attention to what you're writing. If you want us to pay attention, make it look like you put effort into this not just "hey I can link to other people's screenshots'
2. The information is wrong or inaccurate. Last thing we need is people posting more "tutorials" based on ignorance. It is aggravating due to the fact, it is more time spent, correcting inaccurate information to a person new to learning this stuff.

Good tutorials - 
http://enliighten.com/blog/category/tutorials/
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/

I beta test software, and I also try to keep in contact with Wacom reps. In fact, they called me because they said my review was full of information that helped them stamp out a log of bugs with the drivers.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Dec 2, 2012)

> _Cost: *Heart Attack *ok to be honest I like having the newest version of photoshop because this is the program I know the most. But the starting price of the newest program Photoshop CS5 is around *1000$*. ......ok you awake from fainting yet? Ok not the price for last years Photoshop CS4 is around *350$* oh I bet you see where I am going with this. If you are paying for this program look around. After CS2 they havent added a TON of new features for the artist. CS2 has great set of new things that older versions didnt have. _



CS6 is the newest version of Photoshop.  You can get it from Amazon for $548.  CS5 (for some reason) is on Amazon for $586.  CS4 is $699, so I don't know what's going on with that.

Before you try to educate others on the "latest" software, I recommend updating your own knowledge.  The link you provided for Photoshop even goes straight to CS6.


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## Taralack (Dec 2, 2012)

Oh yeah and before you try to pass yourself off as some kind of digital art guru, 
1. Learn about some nice, aesthetically pleasing fonts. Jokerman is not exactly what I'd call the high point of graphic design. 
2. Learn about complementary colours and quit using shitty gradients.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 2, 2012)

UnburntDaenerys said:


> CS6 is the newest version of Photoshop.  You can get it from Amazon for $548.  CS5 (for some reason) is on Amazon for $586.  CS4 is $699, so I don't know what's going on with that.
> 
> Before you try to educate others on the "latest" software, I recommend updating your own knowledge.  The link you provided for Photoshop even goes straight to CS6.



Usually price fluctuations like that have to do with being able to sell the newest version at a discount (because it's new and on special)

As far as CS4 and CS5 goes - if you look carefully it's a third party seller that is doing it through Amazon. It's not Amazon's price for it. "Sold by SoftwareCW and Fulfilled by Amazon. Gift-wrap available. " and "Sold by AAABuy and Fulfilled by Amazon. Gift-wrap available. "

Even the images for the tablets are wrong. The latest is an intuos 5 and not the 3 which is being shown. Wacom got smart about putting the express keys on one side.

The Cintiq is not as thin as an iPad...wtf





http://0.tqn.com/d/graphicssoft/1/0/n/g/5/Cintiq24HD.jpg

This is a 24HD, not the image shown by the OP.
In addition, the 24HD is HUGE. If you don't have the desk space for it, it will be cumbersome. You have figure out how to handle it. There have been threads on CA about this.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Dec 2, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Usually price fluctuations like that have to do with being able to sell the newest version at a discount (because it's new and on special)
> 
> As far as CS4 and CS5 goes - if you look carefully it's a third party seller that is doing it through Amazon. It's not Amazon's price for it. "Sold by SoftwareCW and Fulfilled by Amazon. Gift-wrap available. " and "Sold by AAABuy and Fulfilled by Amazon. Gift-wrap available. "
> 
> ...



That makes more sense, I couldn't even find the older versions of CS on the Adobe website (which had CS6 for $699, still not the $1000 the OP states).

I think the OP might be thinking of the 12WX which has a _screen_ about the size of the iPad, but the actual size is 16" x 10.5" x 0.67".  The 24HD is 64 lbs and 30" x 18" x 2.5", i.e., freaking huge.


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## Ansitru (Dec 2, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> 2. The information is wrong or inaccurate. Last thing we need is people posting more "tutorials" based on ignorance. It is aggravating due to the fact, it is more time spent, correcting inaccurate information to a person new to learning this stuff.



Agreeing with this and adding on an extra point of critique: your tutorial is not very organized and it doesn't read easily either.
Paragraphs and proper text-processing are your friend. Fancy-schmancy word-fonts which are nigh illegible are not.

Also:



aaronmayhem said:


> 2.  *Wacom Inkling* (yes this gets its own catagory by itself)
> 
> Ok now to even throw in something new that I just found out about this  week. *This thing BLEW MY MIND. But i should have seen it coming.*
> http://www.wacom.com...ts/Inkling.aspx
> ...



You are not giving objective or even remotely useful info other than "_This is the price and OMG LOOK AT IT! *fangasm*_".
That's not helpful in the least. 

The Inkling has been out for a long period now. The least you could've done was researched what it can and cannot do, whether or not it delivers on the promise of "straight from traditional to digital" and if it even is a handy thing to have or if it's just a pricey, but nifty gadget.

In short: more info, less biased drivel.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 2, 2012)

UnburntDaenerys said:


> That makes more sense, I couldn't even find the older versions of CS on the Adobe website (which had CS6 for $699, still not the $1000 the OP states).
> 
> I think the OP might be thinking of the 12WX which has a _screen_ about the size of the iPad, but the actual size is 16" x 10.5" x 0.67".  The 24HD is 64 lbs and 30" x 18" x 2.5", i.e., freaking huge.



Lemme pull the quote.



aaronmayhem said:


> Now say you are really amped about getting into the art scene, and you want to take it to the next step.
> Drawing directly on your screen is amazing and fun. My friend had one of these. Same basic ways of figuring out which one to buy as before. These range in sizes from ones *that are the size and thinness as a Ipad* all the way up to this 24inch one my friend had. Its amazing really it is much easier to get started after being traditional. Because you are drawing right on what you want to draw.
> The cheapest (and best for price that I have found) one of these cost around 700$. Which is much less than the BEST tablet at wacom.
> Links to tablets (cheapest to highest)
> coming soon



The "BEST" Tablet is an Intuos and is not $700 dollars. A Cintiq 12wx is about $800 right now if you want a visual display.

He said thinness AND size. This is utter bs. Reminds me of when the 12" Cintiq came out and there were product images of the people holding it in their lap comfortably forgetting to tell you it can get heavy and hot as hell.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn...v/vspfiles/photos/Cintiq12WX-3.jpg?1346839641


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## Tiamat (Dec 2, 2012)

I too was interested in the Inkling. But there is a reason it is not mentioned on the CA forums or many other places. Many of the reviews have
penned it as a good concept, but hampered by current technology. It is little more than a novelty at this stage.

www.pcworld.com/article/245476/wacom_inkling_review_a_great_concept_with_a_few_kinks.html

A very frank review. The shortcomings listed make it sound like a complete hindrance to the the illustration process more
than anything else. Of course, I have not used it myself, but based on what I have read, I don't intend to.


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## Taralack (Dec 2, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> I too was interested in the Inkling. But there is a reason it is not mentioned on the CA forums or many other places. Many of the reviews have
> penned it as a good concept, but hampered by current technology. It is little more than a novelty at this stage.
> 
> www.pcworld.com/article/245476/wacom_inkling_review_a_great_concept_with_a_few_kinks.html
> ...



Yes, this. On paper, the concept sounds amazing, but what you don't see is the trouble when trying to get the actual strokes into a commonly used program like Illustrator or Photoshop. Until Wacom stops forcing users to need its proprietary software to import the art, this thing just isn't worth the time and effort. You'd get things done faster just by doing a digital sketch and then doing the lines in Illustrator like normal.


----------



## Validuz (Dec 2, 2012)

Thought this thread would be actually helpful for people starting out with digital art.. Not arguing over wich wacom is better.

I could really use some help with the programs themselves & how to properly use them. In what order to use them for the best result. What kind of brushes people use for various things.

I'm switching between pen & erasor. I've experimented with the line-art pen a bit but it turns out weird more often than not.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 2, 2012)

Validuz said:


> Thought this thread would be actually helpful for people starting out with digital art.. Not arguing over wich wacom is better.
> 
> I could really use some help with the programs themselves & how to properly use them. In what order to use them for the best result. What kind of brushes people use for various things.
> 
> I'm switching between pen & erasor. I've experimented with the line-art pen a bit but it turns out weird more often than not.



I'm glad you "read" the thread. 

You focused on one part and avoided the rest since you would have found that information in the thread.


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## Tiamat (Dec 2, 2012)

Validuz said:


> Not arguing over wich wacom is better.



What are you talking about?


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## Taralack (Dec 2, 2012)

Validuz said:


> Thought this thread would be actually helpful for people starting out with digital art.. Not arguing over wich wacom is better.



I don't think anyone is arguing over which one is better, we're pointing out that OP doesn't know his shit. 

If you really wanted help with the programs you would either a. Look it up on google yourself (you know, self study is always a good thing) b. Read the stickied threads in the tutorials and critiques forum c. Make your own thread asking for help

Also if you don't have the basics down, what "order" to use programs in or what brushes to use won't make you any better an artist. A good artist can use certain tools and make art with it. A great artist can use any tools to create art.


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## aaronmayhem (Dec 3, 2012)

@ all those that are just ripping the thread apart. 
How many times do I need to say that I would be updating the information. Anyone that is knowledgeable in anything that has to do with tech knows that information can get outdated extremely fast. So instead of helping me out with updating the information you want to pretend that you know everything and want to put me down. 

How about you let this thread die then, I will be submitting a ticket to have it locked. I wont think of this as a loss. I wanted to help the community and FA Staff member wants to turn this into a flame thread. I did not think the FA forums would be this angry. I have been on a lot of forums as they pop up and have seen forums that are helpful and had mods that truly wanted to help people. I have seen mods and people on forums like this that like to down things instead of trying to make them better. Eventually the forums in the latter start dying down because the new people are pushed out and eventually the older ones move on.

I still leave it at this,
 To Arshes Nei, who supposedly knows everything, Make this thread yourself, Help the community instead of tearing it apart. Pull all that knowledge you have into a thread that will help out new people with going digital. You can even through in your stuff about doing traditional first but still help people transition to the digital scene that wants to. There are tons of programs as you seem to know and wacom isnt the only thing out there, so hopefully you pull all that into your thread so that the FA forum will benefit from the knowledge.

And to everyone else good luck with your art and I hope that everyday bring you more knowledge in the skills that you wish to attain.


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## Ansitru (Dec 3, 2012)

aaronmayhem said:


> @ all those that are just ripping the thread apart.
> How many times do I need to say that I would be updating the information. Anyone that is knowledgeable in anything that has to do with tech knows that information can get outdated extremely fast. So instead of helping me out with updating the information you want to pretend that you know everything and want to put me down.



Except for the fact that you could have researched before making this thread, thus meaning you wouldn't have to update it with current info that has been out for a while now hours after making it. I mean, tech may get outdated fast, but you still need I know what you're talking about and do your research before pretending to teach. 

And based on your _ZOMG greatest things evuhr-"_reviews", I think it's safe to say you should not be teaching people who are new to digital art. It's like a blind man teaching people how to see. 

Also: spellcheck is your friend. Use it. Love it. And for crying out loud proofread your posts.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 3, 2012)

aaronmayhem said:


> @ all those that are just ripping the thread apart.
> How many times do I need to say that I would be updating the information. Anyone that is knowledgeable in anything that has to do with tech knows that information can get outdated extremely fast. So instead of helping me out with updating the information you want to pretend that you know everything and want to put me down.
> 
> How about you let this thread die then, I will be submitting a ticket to have it locked. I wont think of this as a loss. I wanted to help the community and FA Staff member wants to turn this into a flame thread. I did not think the FA forums would be this angry. I have been on a lot of forums as they pop up and have seen forums that are helpful and had mods that truly wanted to help people. I have seen mods and people on forums like this that like to down things instead of trying to make them better. Eventually the forums in the latter start dying down because the new people are pushed out and eventually the older ones move on.
> ...



It is unfortunate that you took this route. Your vast overreaction to Arshes' points sounded the death knell for this thread.
Your goals seem less than selfless if you are going to throw a tantrum when more learned members correct your "guide"
Nobody has gotten angry here except you. Is playing the victim always a side effect of being a furry? The two seem to go
hand in hand.

I don't think your analogy of the forums is correct. I like this place because, thankfully, the staff and senior members do
not indulge asspats. The world of illustration is hard enough as it is, anytime the excess bullshit and falseness can be trimmed
off is better for everyone. 

Thanks for the good wishes though. As long as aspiring artists stick to their studies and put in the time and sweat, I'm sure
they will be fine. 

Oh and nobody is pretending to know everything. The facts were stated in response from people who actually -do- know what
they are talking about. Please don't hold that against them.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 3, 2012)

I like how someone who didn't do their research before posting this thread, makes assumptions. I have been helping. Not my fault you haven't looked at other threads where I've given a lot of information. I even gave a lot of information on this very thread and provided links. Heck, I posted youtube videos too.

As far as information getting outdated fast? Corel Painter X was released in *2007* It's almost 2013! That's not fast. That's *years!* One major difference is that Corel Painter is 64 bit (least for Windows right now). If you get older versions of Painter they may not work due to memory handling, and you have to do a certain shortcut. I should know because I'm also running Painter 6. I still even have Painter Classic somewhere. When it came out I even offered to help those that had questions.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...e-tutorials-or-tips-on-Corel-Painter-Brushes? - Though one of the problems I had mentioned with brush imports has vastly improved. In fact, it puts Photoshop to shame on how well you can organize your favorite brushes and workspace. You know why? I talk with Corel as well as others. I mentioned that users do not have the patience or time to look for hidden files on Windows/Mac to fix things. Now you can import and export workspaces. They didn't create a new version of Painter to do this and made you pay more money - *it was a free update!*

If someone asked a question, I may not have had a tutorial myself on it but I sure know where to find one. http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/4049-Question-about-Line-Art-with-Corel-Painter-IX

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/78789-Corel-Painter

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...se-on-smooth-line-art-with-adobe-photoshop-cs

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/106136-Need-a-bit-of-help!

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/101930-Gamut-Tool-Tool-for-making-Color-Palettes

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/2217-Various-Art-Programs-and-where-to-download-them - Sticky thread
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/3012-Everything-you-want-to-know-about-Open-Canvas - Another sticky thread. 

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...r-be-good-as-an-artist-Message-of-Inspiration - Yet another sticky thread

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/49321-Photoshop-versus-Painter?highlight=painter+apple - if you want to see the apples. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2714296/ and http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2714309/ and I did an MS Paint Apple out of request since there was the "Well you use good tools" argument http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2900484/

But if you happened to have bothered visiting that part of the forum you'd realize how false your accusations are. Not only that, I provided MORE information than you originally had. You didn't even bother to correct that info.

Also threads aren't closed due to "Poster's remorse" especially since the responses in this thread from others have been helpful providing more information about the programs, even if your posts are inaccurate.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 4, 2012)

_Dont listen to anyone that tries to push a certain art program on you, well unless they are going to be the one teaching you it personally and helping you out.
I have been in the art scene for a while as a hobby and know a lot of people who are in artistic scene from novice to profesionals.
A lot of artists learn a program and just stick with it. Sometimes you will see that one program just doesnt make do everything you want. So like most artists they use multi programs. I know a ton of artist that like using photoshop for lineart and then use corel painter to finish.
~On that same not the programs themselves get updated alot. I remember when I first saw the tool that allowed you to rotate your canvas. I was so jelous because the program I used didnt have it. One month later I got the new version of my program and they of course stole that idea. You will notice this happens alot. What your program doesnt have, if its by a big company they will find a way to add it to thier program soon. It is very competitive.
_

The first part of the sentence (although typo ridden again) is probably the best advice the OP put out. 
And yes, I'm bumping the thread to correct yet more inaccurate info

But no one "stole" the idea of canvas rotation. It has been in other programs. Painter's was not GPU dependent but CS is if I remember correctly. This has its advantages and disadvantages. This mainly has to do with how the canvas redraws itself (anti alias) on the screen. Older computers or graphics cards may have compatibility issues.


As far as "memory hogging" There are settings on how much RAM and scratch disk you can allocate to a program. 
In Photoshop, you can control how much memory it can allocate. Go to Edit - Preferences - Performance. There you can set the max amount of Ram. The one fortunate thing is if you're using 32bit Photoshop on a 64 bit machine, it will only take the max a 32 bit program can take.

In Painter 12 the concept is similar.  It is in Edit - Preferences - Performance. You can also allocate the max amount of Ram. The only difference is that Painter allocates the full amount of RAM you tell it it can allocate and doesn't let go until you close the program. So if you have an 8gb machine and tell it to allocate 50% it may allocate 4gb RAM right away. This behavior may change with updates, but not sure.

I usually keep a secondary drive (if I need the space) for scratch. Scratch is the temporary file a program will take up when creating your documents. The more layers and larger the document - more space that scratch will take up.

I mentioned Brush Management in 12 -

12.1 update allowed you to import/export brushes - create custom icons within the program and you can even re-arrange which order you want the category of brushes to appear. They also introduced another favorite - the ability to save the mixer pad, and import images for color sampling and mixing. I ended up using Gamut Masks within Painter. This is good for learning how to limit your color palette. It replaces the use for Chris' tool http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/101930-Gamut-Tool-Tool-for-making-Color-Palettes

[yt]CUpheGMcmPc[/yt]


In the 12.2 Update they introduced Flow Maps which work really interesting with watercolor. They also introduced touch and it's actually one of the better uses of Wacom's touch than other programs which usually default to Windows behavior, so I smile a bit when Steve mentions some of the gestures being glad to see they do listen to their customer feedback specially regarding touch - since I own the intuos 5. 

[yt]M0Mqtgsj50A[/yt]


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## Tiamat (Dec 4, 2012)

I will chime in for Artrage as thats my program of choice. I use Artrage Studio Pro.

The Artrage FAQ

http://members.artrage.com/faqs

Artrage gets very power hungry with large documents. Its biggest hindrance at the moment is that
the program is still only 32 bit! So it cannot take advantage of extra ram.

From one of the Artrage staff regarding working a 300 dpi 12 x 18' size document:



> ArtRage pushes around a lot of data and at that size there's a lot of  calculation going on in most of the operations you mention. Watercolour  is a particularly taxing tool as it has to go through the fluid  calculations we use to monitor how the pigment is interacting with other  things.
> 
> Memory-wise, the app is 32-bit so more RAM won't help. The sheer size of  the document is going to require everything you've got. Layers in  ArtRage track more than just colour and transparency, anywhere up to 5x  as much data as simple colour apps, so that can definitely be an issue  if you have many _full_ layers in the document (layers with only a small amount of stuff on them don't use that much memory).
> 
> Processor speed will have some impact on the speed of calculation...



Regarding the 64 bit issue



> 64 bit is something we're looking at, however I don't have a time  estimate for that, as it requires a fairly significant rewrite of the  application.
> 
> Regarding auto-save, ArtRage doesn't have auto-save as saving a large  file wouldbe too disruptive to workflow, so I'm unsure what feature  you're referring to there. Unlike many other applications which only  deal with colour, ArtRage also tracks other media properties such as  wetness, media thickness and so on which will tend to increase file  size. The speed of saving will depend on the speed of the system and  storage media and the size of the file, there's no way to speed it up  inside the application.



This venture would have a significant impact on the cost as well, but I am holding thumbs for it. Right now its the biggest drawback to Artrage and stops it from truly competing with the top tier programs like Photoshop and Painter.

Artrage in action 

[yt]8XQoq6u3_Rg[/yt]

[yt]DLVp4DsqyvM[/yt]

If anyone has any queries at all about it, just let me know and I will help however I can. 
Check out my FA gallery for examples of my Artrage work. It's almost all Artrage paintings.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 4, 2012)

The Mixer pad in Painter were developed by the guys who are now working in ArtRage (just a bit of interesting info to pass along).

Easy Paint tool Sai had some recent updates in the past few months. 

The current version is 1.2 Beta 4 (looks like the developer is working towards Windows 8 compatibility)

http://translate.google.com/transla...&u=http://www.systemax.jp/ja/sai/devdept.html

If you already own Sai, just use the UPDATE installer, not the full installer.

If you can't afford Sai, but want the ability to have clean lineart like Sai - For Windows users there is AZ drawing.

Here s a youtube for the program and overview of its basic features. 

[yt]ldQbK4qzVO8[/yt]

Mac Users however don't need to fret since there is freeware for them that gives some nice results for inking  basic painting.
Fire Alpaca

http://www.firealpaca.com/

I may start covering tutorials on this software as well. But Correct is similar to Stabilizer when you use the Pen option. It has a pretty nice GUI as you can either re-arrange the docked panels or float them out if you have dual monitors. It's fairly basic and simple and for beginning digital artists it has the tools necessary to do studies.

I can also get into sketchbook Pro 2012 which is about $30 bucks right now. http://amzn.com/B008TN81ZG

It was revamped a bit for touch interface and better brush management. It's my 2nd favorite in terms of brush organization. I still think Sketchbook Pro's rulers are at the top of its game. The good thing about this software is that both Mac and Windows users can use it. 

I could also cover linux programs - Gimp is the main one, but others have come out.


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## Zydala (Dec 4, 2012)

I can cover linux programs too when I have time since I work almost exclusively in Ubuntu - the three that I would cover would be GIMP, MyPaint and a bit of Krita.


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## Tiamat (Dec 4, 2012)

Just discovered Krita recently. It's blending impressed me.


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## RTDragon (Dec 4, 2012)

Can anyone tell me about photoshop elements considering there is not as much helpful guides for elements. Considering i mostly use that for my digital artwork most of the time.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 4, 2012)

RTDragon said:


> Can anyone tell me abut photoshop elements considering there is not as much helpful guides for elements. Considering i mostly use that for my digital artwork most of the time.



Elements tends to lack a lot of a lot brush customizations, you are going to restrict yourself to a round hard brush with pressure sensitivity.


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## RTDragon (Dec 4, 2012)

I see so then so which brushes should i use the default or the basic brushes. Though i could never understand the bit on pressure sensitivity considering all these years since 2005 i've been using a Graphire4 4x5 Tablet. does this have something to do with the brush tablet options?


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 4, 2012)

Well yes, this is a basic principle. Use a hard round brush with options on pressure sensitivity for opacity. Which version of Elements are you using?


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## RTDragon (Dec 4, 2012)

Photoshop Elements 8. I'll be getting a new tablet this december considering since this is tablet related as well i do wonder what should i get since i am going from a old tablet of wacom a graphire 4 4x5.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 4, 2012)

A Bamboo craft has the eraser end.

Bamboo Splash - http://amzn.com/B0089VGPII (does not have an eraser end but rather cheap)

The Bamboos have 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity


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## RTDragon (Dec 4, 2012)

Wow that is quite an improvement over the old graphire series. Though considering i was recommended the Intuos5 though since comparing the price most likely it would be better considering i can also buy some artbooks for myself. Considering i have a 23 inch monitor.


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## Deo (Dec 4, 2012)

Wow this is not the thread I thought it would be.

Uh, I brought some awesome tutorials on Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop, the tutorials range from being for beginners to more experienced artists:
http://www.automotiveillustrations.com/tutorials/drawing-tutorials.html

Kevin is a really great guy, and his work is very professional and high quality. I've enjoyed learning from him hands on in the past during brief guest lectures he gave and I can attest to his skill in his tutorials and his passion for educating young artists.


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## drpickelle (Dec 5, 2012)

RTDragon said:


> Can anyone tell me about photoshop elements considering there is not as much helpful guides for elements. Considering i mostly use that for my digital artwork most of the time.





Arshes Nei said:


> Elements tends to lack a lot of a lot brush customizations, you are going to restrict yourself to a round hard brush with pressure sensitivity.



I use Photoshop Elements 5 for about 80% of my digital artwork. It lacks a lot of the things a full version of Photoshop has, but it's my preference, since it's what I started with and what I'm use to. The things it's missing, the average user would never notice, and is perfectly acceptable to use.

A way around the brush issue... is to use another program to make your own brushes, and import them into PSE. That said, with use and practice, you can do anything with the brushes you're given.

I never liked the line quality of either PSE5 or PSCS3, so I use SAI for that aspect, which is a relatively cheap program.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2012)

The brush actually isn't an issue. 
I am mentioning there is a lack of brush customization, but as a person who is beginning art -  The Round Hard brush is the starter brush that Photoshop has, and to restrict yourself to it.

Meaning, that you just want to set it so you have the round hard brush react to pressure sensitivity for opacity.

When I got my tablet, even though I've used Photoshop for years with a mouse, the program I practiced with was actually Open Canvas 1.1 because I wanted to get down basic coordination with the least amount of distractions. 

Once you learn to paint/draw with that brush, you can worry about pretty custom brushes later.

That's why you don't really need tutorials that tailor to Elements. You need to get that first setting down "round hard brush with pressure sensitivity" first.

http://www.ctrlpaint.com/dp101-2/

But if you don't know how to draw, don't blame the program.


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## Tiamat (Dec 5, 2012)

Indeed. Arshes brings up a good point. So many new digital artists are hesitant to use a hard round brush and use brushes that are too soft.
This results in blurry/fuzzy washed out looking work. Learning how to blend with a hard brush is one of the first things you must tackle when going
digital. Forget the airbrushes/soft brushes. They have their place, but can hurt new artists who use them incorrectly.


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## drpickelle (Dec 5, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> The brush actually isn't an issue.
> I am mentioning there is a lack of brush customization, but as a person who is beginning art -  The Round Hard brush is the starter brush that Photoshop has, and to restrict yourself to it.



Ah, I thought you meant that earlier versions didn't have the ability to make brushes, my mistake. 

Yeah-- that's a good tip. I used the defaults for a long time when I first got the program, They're good learning points for taking in, and understanding how to use brushes and technique.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2012)

I wanted to cover a bit of advice on computer equipment when doing digital drawing.

Often people ask about tablets, then they weigh it against other computer equipment one wants/needs.

If you're more interested in drawing than gaming here is the following advice I have.

*Monitor is more important than the kind of tablet you buy. *

You can get a nice intuos, but a crappy screen can deter you from drawing. Before IPS monitors (and really good ones still are) were rather expensive. With the advent of budget IPS panels, I would highly recommend at least getting one for a drawing set up. The reason being is that most monitors are TN panels and have limited viewing angles and less accurate colors. Budget IPS panels are usually called "eIPS" 

Do note that any monitor you get will need to be calibrated. 
If you do go with an IPS do also note that they have slower response times, so if you are interested in gaming, this monitor will not be the best. This is why I said you need to make the decision about what you need your computer for the most.

I recommend at least a 20" display for drawing. 

[yt]DWXcNlh85Ps[/yt]


CPU is less important than RAM and HDD

Having a fast CPU/Processor really doesn't matter so much when drawing. It's not going to make your brush strokes better or faster. However, some graphics programs are starting to take advantage of multicore usage. I generally recommend a quad core processor but depending on what program you use, a high speed processor is not so necessary. As far as Intel vs AMD? While I prefer Intel, this also doesn't matter as much. So if you want to save money, you can go with an AMD processor. 

RAM takes a higher priority for graphics programs and is needed more, following that is a good HDD - for mainly saving large files and allowing swap/temp files when program is in use. 

Graphics Cards - You don't need the highest end graphic card.

Graphics cards is a bit of a tricky one. While you don't need the highest end graphics card, you do want one that's reliable for certain graphics programs that utilize them. I still recommend NVidia over ATi/AMD cards. As long as they can use OPENGL they should be fine. I just have seen in the past more people having issues with the ATi cards. Intel also has its limitations. For the most part you won't have to worry as much if you're using a regular tablet and a program like Paint Tool Sai and other programs. Photoshop CS has some functions that use OPENGL but you can still use most of the program if your graphics card doesn't support it. The only other time you may have some concerns is if you have a Cintiq since it is a secondary display. 

I could also go into workspace/desk space later.


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## Tiamat (Dec 5, 2012)

Could you go into more detail about monitor calibration?


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Could you go into more detail about monitor calibration?



I can, it's a bit of a enduring subject that I'm even learning.
There's software calibration and hardware calibration.

You also have learning what color spaces your monitor can display


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## Tiamat (Dec 5, 2012)

Maybe I can help, after I made my post I did some research. I found these
very useful sites with test samples on the pages themselves. Happy to say my
Samsung is pretty much calibrated to their standards:

Is your monitor calibrated and why you need it.

Color Management 101 for Digital Artists


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## Taralack (Dec 5, 2012)

I'll have to use that monitor thing when I'm back on my computer proper. Too busy and tired with con stuff ATM.

You do need a relatively good GPU when doing 3d work and motion graphics or video editing, but I suppose that is going off tangent a little.

Arshes you should split these posts and make them a new thread. XD People might get confused by the original posts and not stick around the read the real advice.


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## Tiamat (Dec 5, 2012)

Indeed Bro. I'd like to think this is a WIP melting pot of advice which will probably be made into something more cohesive and useful from the very start.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 7, 2012)

The OP is a real piece of work.

You complain that people don't help. When we do post more information that's accurate than your stuff you delete the post.

This stays up. You abuse this function again you're going to get thrown out.


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## Thaily (Dec 7, 2012)

aaronmayhem said:


> To Arshes Nei, who supposedly knows everything, Make this thread yourself, Help the community instead of tearing it apart.



You're tearing us apart Arshes!



Tiamat said:


> Just discovered Krita recently. It's blending impressed me.



If you have tried SAI, how does blending compare between SAI and Krita?


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## Tiamat (Dec 7, 2012)

Thaily said:


> You're tearing us apart Arshes!
> 
> 
> 
> If you have tried SAI, how does blending compare between SAI and Krita?



Good question...unfortunately I can't answer it. I have tried both, but its been a while since I played with Sai. 
I'll see about giving them both a go.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 7, 2012)

Don't you love The Room? So quotable XD

I can give a test between the two. A lot of people don't even understand what the sliders in Sai do when it comes to blending.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 7, 2012)

That would be fantastic, I don't even have Sai on my PC anymore.

"I definitely have breast cancer"

"Don't worry about it."


----------



## Thaily (Dec 7, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Don't you love The Room? So quotable XD



I love to hate it.



Arshes Nei said:


> I can give a test between the two. A lot of people don't even understand what the sliders in Sai do when it comes to blending.



SAI has sliders?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 7, 2012)

Thaily said:


> SAI has sliders?



Here you go

[yt]-f62_jRHxYM[/yt]


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 8, 2012)

Just noting after ignoring the warning not to delete the thread again due to abuse of the delete function, OP has been kicked out of the Art forums. There is information others have been using in this thread and just because I set it to allow people to delete threads - do not abuse this function. You cannot delete your threads on other parts of the forum.


----------



## Taralack (Dec 8, 2012)

I was just telling Tiamat that maybe you should change permissions on deletion to be only in the art exchange and black market, instead of all the art forums.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 8, 2012)

If behavior like that keeps up, then yes it may end up being that way.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 8, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Just noting after ignoring the warning not to delete the thread again due to abuse of the delete function, OP has been kicked out of the Art forums. There is information others have been using in this thread and just because I set it to allow people to delete threads - do not abuse this function. You cannot delete your threads on other parts of the forum.



OP thinks we're all a bunch of meanie-poos who destroyed his thread.



> I havent been following the thread. I told Arshes to go edit her thread  and add in all the info that she lazily left out when she posted before.  I was informed how to delete the post when I talked to dragoneer. Like I  said before she and others started turning it into a flame thread and  accusing my wife of stealing art, I was going to update all the  information and update it with the communities help. I have a life  unlike some people and lost interest when I found out the communities  rudeness to new posters. So it would be nice if you leave me alone  because you are only showing that I was right to have nothing to do with  you people


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 8, 2012)

Oh you saw that did you? 

The irony, its delicious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But I don't want to sound like a petty meanie-poo. 
This kind of thing just makes me laugh a lot.

Anyway, somewhat related, one of my favorite videos. An oldie, I know, but a goodie. 
How to paint the Mona Lisa with MS Paint

[yt]uk2sPl_Z7ZU[/yt]


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 8, 2012)

If I were harassing him I'd be engaging him back and forth. 90% of my post was about art information. That's a very strange idea of harassment. "STOP GIVING OUT INFORMATION AND TUTORIALS!!! HARASSMENT"

As for his wife stealing art. I state again. It is theft to use stock art from that site that is watermarked and not pay for it. It doesn't matter if you linked to it (it violates For You By You and against site policy.)
http://depositphotos.com/subscribe.html Please see their conditions. That is why there are watermarks. 

If you are a starting digital artist, learn your rights and the rights of others. That means if you want your rights as an artist respected you should respect the rights of photographers and areas/other types of art that give you tools for art making. It is a common mistake of an newer artists to feel it is within their rights to steal other people's photos because "the camera did the work for them". If you perpetuate that idea, other people feel it is ok to take your art as well. If you need something from a stock site - pay for it (if they require payment - since it is royalty free when you do) find someone that does allow you to use their reference for free if you can't afford it, or better yet *shoot your own reference when possible*


----------



## drpickelle (Dec 8, 2012)

I knew this thread would be back-- and I'm glad it is! There's a butt load of valuable information here, and I had barely went through any of it, before it was deleted.


----------



## Rinz (Dec 8, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Indeed. Arshes brings up a good point. So many new digital artists are hesitant to use a hard round brush and use brushes that are too soft.
> This results in blurry/fuzzy washed out looking work. Learning how to blend with a hard brush is one of the first things you must tackle when going
> digital. Forget the airbrushes/soft brushes. They have their place, but can hurt new artists who use them incorrectly.


I have no idea how to use a soft brush. I never bothered to learn once I figured out hard round (or the Spicy Curry brush, but I don't quite remember the settings on that one).


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 8, 2012)

Rinz said:


> I have no idea how to use a soft brush. I never bothered to learn once I figured out hard round (or the Spicy Curry brush, but I don't quite remember the settings on that one).



A lot of beginning artists go to the soft airbrush because of the build up method...where it's slow and soft. It can make a good gradient transition but because people are unsure they feel the airbrush is ok.

You know how you learned that value exercise on drawing a sphere? A lot of people like the airbrush because it gets "close" to the goal of the exercise. I say close in quotes because people still haven't learned form this way - they just see it "looks right".

The airbrush tool isn't actually bad, but people don't learn how to use it right. I actually did traditional art using a bowl feed Iwata airbrush and mixed my own colors. Airbrush involves a lot of masking. In PS this would be selections *and* masks (since people don't check their selections often enough to see how it masked). You can use a soft airbrush, but if you don't make decisions on edge making - then the result is often too soft and undecided. 

Beginner artists tend to create, what I refer to as the "balloon animal" effect when dealing with certain body parts.

Like the upper leg - you learn to associate most with a cylinder...however, as your anatomy studies and knowledge increases  you realize there are still planes on the leg where it's not an exact cylinder.





http://cranktraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/muscle_anatomy_upper_leg.gif

Certain parts of the inner thigh flatten out a bit (ie  form a plane) 

So dealing with it as a soft airbrush form can be acceptable (in certain cases) but not a good study if you don't know the anatomy, edges, planes and form.


----------



## HipsterCoyote (Dec 11, 2012)

Adobe Flash!!

*What Can I Make With Flash?*

Fucking everything, including: 
--> Interactive websites such as the horrifying Monoface website
--> Comics, Like one of the first all-flash webcomics called FAIRVIEW HIGH!
--> In-Browser Games and IM Clients
--> Mobile Apps
--> Animation, obviously

Flash is feature-rich, is programmed in concert with ActionScript (you do not have to know how to code to use Flash, but you need to learn how to code in order to bring Flash to its full potential), and is freakishly adored by a large amount of people despite how much sense it does not make and even though it crashes constantly and does NOT let you save your work on the occasion that it does crash, you find yourself throwing yourself off of cliffs in order to be able to see the sparkly bastard just one last time.  Like other programs by Adobe, Flash is designed to work across programs, most notably _AfterEffects_ and to some smaller extent, _Fireworks. 

_As an aside, not a lot of people hear about Fireworks. Fireworks is what happened when Adobe went "We ought to make a vector version of Photoshop that isn't Illustrator.  We ought to package it like "Hey man, you can design websites and apps on this thing," but the money maker for us is that we'll add in features that have to be used along with Flash, Photoshop, and DreamWeaver... and besides, I think it'd be just rad if it saved your work as _raster images_, even though it's supposed to be a vector program, and even though you can tell it to export as things you figure'd keep the "I'M A VECTOR PROGRAM" thing in mind like PEE DEE EFFS, it's going to flatten your vector art into a raster image HAW HAW HAW"  

*AND YET YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO USE THIS FUCKING SOFTWARE IN ORDER TO GET A LOT OF JOBS AS UX/WEB DESIGN AGFAFSFJA *
OK anyways, anti Fireworks rant aside, 

If getting the _previous_ version of Flash is at all within your capacity, do so.  Instead of CS6, get CS5 (or 4, better yet, because the damn thing is more stable than 5, but 3 lacks some very nice features).  Flash is a _very_ tempermental program because it is so complex (and coded by people who cut corners because it is perfectly possible to code software in a way that lets you save your work on the occasion the program crashes but Adobe is like, "No that's hard," and even though you're paying just as much money as for, say, VLXI (an alternative to Illustrator) that DOES let you save mid-crash, NEWP).  In that vein, just like with operating systems, don't get the flashy newest version.  Get the previous version because if something goes wrong, someone else has been there and it is much easier to find the answer to your problems. 

Flash's appeal, IMO, is because of how very feature rich it is.  It can be a _very_ intimidating program because of this, but do not get frustrated.  When you open Flash for the first time, do so with a goal in mind.  One you have designed in a medium you are comfortable with (photoshop? Drawing on paper?).  Flowchart how it works, or otherwise mark down your vision.  This way you will have a direction and then you can look up, "How do I make ____ in Flash?" and streamline your learning experience.  Just playing with Flash is going to cause really bad habits. 

For instance, 

1.) There are 'groups' in Flash. They are useful tools for aligning text and images.  That's all they should be used for.  However, there is the possibility that the self-taught person who picks up Flash and learns by fucking around will think that using groups is acceptable practice for animation.  It's not, and in the shortest terms possible, it makes your animations explode (literally) and it fucks up your library (the thing where all your saved drawings relative to your .fla go) by auto-naming and it just, it just is a mess. If you do use a group, then only use it to align things and then BREAK it apart once you get it where you want it.  

Better practice which you will learn about if you look up, say, "How do I make a looping animation in Flash" because you planned your shit out, is the practice of turning everything into _symbols_, not groups.  Symbols are objects _specifically _for drawings which need to change (so, if you want to animate a run cycle, you will make it a symbol.  If you want to animate a button that has a rollover effect, it will be a symbol). 

2.) There is the puppet tool in Flash.  It needs to go to hell.  If you derp around and go "Oh, there is a puppet tool, and I've seen animations before that look like paper puppets, this is swell and I should use it " then you are missing out on the way you really ought to do 'paper puppet' animation (puppeting, motion graphics) which amounts to manipulating layers of _symbols_ on the timeline.


ETA - 
As an aside, if I dumped everything I knew into a thread would that be worthwhile? Who wants to learn how to Flash?


----------



## Rinz (Dec 11, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> A lot of beginning artists go to the soft airbrush because of the build up method...where it's slow and soft. It can make a good gradient transition but because people are unsure they feel the airbrush is ok.
> 
> You know how you learned that value exercise on drawing a sphere? A lot of people like the airbrush because it gets "close" to the goal of the exercise. I say close in quotes because people still haven't learned form this way - they just see it "looks right".
> 
> ...


So, essentially, if I'm reading/digesting this right, the airbrush tool can be used to great success if things like planes of the body are selected, then shaded using an airbrush tool? And then further refinement with layer masks?


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## Taralack (Dec 11, 2012)

Haha HC I love that you used Comic Sans for the header on that post.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 11, 2012)

HipsterCoyote said:


> As an aside, if I dumped everything I knew into a thread would that be worthwhile? Who wants to learn how to Flash?



Go for it! I'd read it and I'm sure others would as well. Can never put too much info and personal experience out there.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 13, 2012)

Rinz said:


> So, essentially, if I'm reading/digesting this right, the airbrush tool can be used to great success if things like planes of the body are selected, then shaded using an airbrush tool? And then further refinement with layer masks?



If you have ever used a traditional airbrush, making masks is necessary. To create a hard edge for example, you'd use friskette to block out areas you don't want to color in yet. Something like friskette usually creates a hard edge, as does masking tape if it's pressed down firmly. You could also use paper which would create a firm edge. Other tricks we'd use is something like sand to create texture.. 

Notice I said hard, and firm. There are different kinds of edges. 

I always end up going to this post to study and understand them.
http://conceptart.org/forums/showth...ng-Discussion-quot-Edges-quot-Tips-and-Tricks


----------



## HipsterCoyote (Dec 13, 2012)

AH
HA
HAHAHAHAHA
YES

_YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS

_<Arnold Schwarzenegger>_ AND I CAME LOUDLY, GLORIOUSLY, SAGGING WEAKLY: NYAUGHGHGHGHGFH _</Arnold Schwarzenegger>_

_I FOUND ALL MY FLASH ANIMATIONS 
I FOUND THEM ALL 
I DIDN'T LOSE THEM IN THE MOVE AFTER ALL

I'M SO HAPPY I CAN'T EVEN FIGURE OUT HOW TO PUT MY FONT BACK

Seriously man I can stomach going to work today 
omfg
I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE MY PORTFOLIO FROM GOD DAMN SCRATCH
AH
HA
HA
HAAAAAAA

Also I can use it for to make glorious flash tutorials, and all that, yes.  So. I shall do that.  Now all I need is a serial number since I kind of had to reformat and I kind of have my serial number on an external whose weird nigh irreplaceable adapter+USB-all-in-one thing that they don't make anymore, is lost.  :C  I wonder if I can't talk a university student into buying Adobe CS3/4/5/6 for me with their righteous discount and I'd reimburse them. Hrmmmm.


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## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

HipsterCoyote said:


> I kind of have my serial number on an external whose weird nigh irreplaceable adapter+USB-all-in-one thing that they don't make anymore, is lost.



Can you disassemble the external case and put the drive in a more sensible enclosure?


----------



## HipsterCoyote (Dec 13, 2012)

Yeah, I'm going to attempt to today actually.


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## RTDragon (Jan 3, 2013)

I was wondering could this thread be stickied. considering this is some very useful information.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 3, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> I was wondering could this thread be stickied. considering this is some very useful information.



We might make someone mad, but if we stick it now till we consolidate it later?


----------



## Tiamat (Jan 3, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> We might make someone mad



Oh noes! Can't have that now can we?

The thread could use a bit of a cleanup first, to mop up all the poopypants and useless crap "info" in the beginning.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 3, 2013)

That's why I'm tacking on what I remember now and will consolidate later. It will then split off to a new thread, but leaving the original thread alone. The beginning will link to what spurted the discussion so that if people want to see it they can visit the link while the new thread will be fixed up.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 5, 2013)

Oh, someone asked about Sketchbook Pro.

I have to say Sketchbook Pro 6 is one of my favorite updates.

I'll show this Youtube which gives a brief on new features
[yt]jmzcvQaDG9Q[/yt]

The Brush palette bar is my 2nd favorite thing. I love how easy it is to customize and put it on that bar, you only need to slide the bar up and down to get to the brush you want. Very awesome and great GUI design there.

My favorite update is actually the Color Puck. When you hover then click on the color puck it turns into the color wheel. Other nice things about this color puck is that if you go to 

Edit - Preferences - Brush 
You have the option of allowing the Brush Puck to change size with one direction and/or you can change it to change opacity of the brush
The color Puck will also let you change the luminosity by doing a similar gesture.
Click Drag up goes lighter in value - adding more white
Click Drag down goes darker in value - adding more black
Click Drag left - goes lighter in saturation - less purity of the color (more greyed)
Click Drag right - goes darker in saturation - more purity of the color

You can also go into your preferences again to Adjust for the smoothness of your stroke. It's referred to as Steady Stroke.

I also really like the symmetry and ruler tools. The nice addition is a french Curve set. It works very fluidly. If you tap on the "french curve icon" It will place a french curve set on your canvas. By Pressing the "french curve icon" on the canvas (not the toolbar) you can change the type of French Curve set you have. You can also rotate and re-size it to get the kind of curve you want.  You can also use the symmetry tools while using the rulers.

Sketchbook Pro I feel has the best pencil tool hands down. I really feel like the way work works is more natural or intuitive to actual sketching (specially with the intuos 5)

I've also been trying out the new synthetic and blender brushes. These tools are an improvement over past brushes, but I still feel like I need a bit more tweaking to get that sweet spot of it feeling more painterly and less like "glorified smudge tool".

Sketchbook Pro also updated due to the intuos5 touch, and Cintiq HD Touch. I feel it's a bit laggy at times, but it does respond. I am glad they remember the "double tap" to get the hell back in center. Otherwise I'd be going nuts. I still feel that sometimes the touch isn't as intuitive. It may be that it needs some kind of hand orientation/detection to prevent errors in reading.

Some people mentioned the Copic Library as a new feature, but it was in the past Sketchbook pro as an update. 

Layer management has improved with transparency options, and ways to label your layers like with color tabs.

I am gonna link to hotkeys because I often need some hotkeys when I manage sketchbook Pro.
(PDF document) - http://www.sketchbook.com/storage/documentation/ENU_Hotkeys.pdf (English)

I'll show a demo of one of my express key layouts for the intuos 5

http://i49.tinypic.com/sc3nlt.jpg







Brush sizing is always on my backswitch, I always find it faster than mashing a button constantly to go up and down in size.
Alt - eyedrop/sample color tool

I haven't put anything on the touch ring (left it at default) mainly because I can rotate with my fingers on the intuos 5 and double tap to get back to the right spot. I usually use my touch ring for zooming, rotating and secondary brush sizing 

I used the bottom keys for Undo/Redo Full screen and Panning around in my document.

Personally I find that Sketchbook pro is really a great beginner tool for general sketching (not to say it's not for pros, it's just that its simplicity helps overall). Layout is probably closest to regular drawing on paper. The price is also great. 40 bucks - http://amzn.com/B008TN81ZG

Some cons and troubleshooting - 

Blending still isn't quite there yet.
Some people will mistake it for the ultimate digital painting solution - no, as its name states: SKETCHBOOK Pro
If panels get stuck, go to Window - Default Layout on the Bottom
Touch controls is still...touchy!
License is for 1 computer only afaik - although inexpensive it is a bit of a pain for mutli users. 

Overall, I still really enjoy this program and while I was pretty upset with ordering it from Autodesk - they screwed up on handing out keys and product codes during initial launch. I can't complain about the price for this program for what I get.


----------



## RTDragon (Jan 5, 2013)

I have autodesk sketchbook express that came with the bamboo create. How much is it to upgrade from it?


----------



## Taralack (Jan 5, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> I have autodesk sketchbook express that came with the bamboo create. How much is it to upgrade from it?



Sketchbook Express is free for both Windows and Mac.
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/sketchbook-express/95d1acfb-4d64-487a-9e20-8d6f6d41cb54
https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/sketchbook-express/id404243625?mt=12


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 5, 2013)

You should note that the Sketchbook Express link for windows is ONLY for Windows 8


----------



## Taralack (Jan 5, 2013)

Hrm it seems it's not available for PC at all. 

@RTDragon if you are going to any school or institute, you can register on the Autodesk site and download a student version of any of their software for free.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 5, 2013)

Toraneko said:


> Hrm it seems it's not available for PC at all.
> 
> @RTDragon if you are going to any school or institute, you can register on the Autodesk site and download a student version of any of their software for free.



There *are* versions of Sketchbook Express that are free but they are bundled with Wacom tablets. Sketchbook Express is a limited version of Sketchbook Pro. As I said Sketchbook Pro is only 40 bucks. It's not that expensive. 

As far as I can see and tell Sketchbook Pro is not listed as part of the student download catalog. http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=download_center *Confirmed there is no student version for free*

When I bought the Upgrade version it didn't ask me for serial from previous (It cost me $30)
The full version is 40 on Amazon - 60 on Autodesk's site.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 5, 2013)

I tried Krita a few times and I have to say it has one of the most aggravating GUIs I've ever encountered.

It tries to launch the DVD drive for no reason

It definitely isn't programmed for touch. The controls are counter intuitive and lag in response.

It could use a lot of tweaking to make it more user friendly. I did finally see how some brushes work, but customizing the interface is such a pain and it's hard to see some of my tools. The brush icon is a wiggly line (why the fuck????)

I can see how it blends but since Sai Paint can do it the same and better not sure if it's a program I can recommend at this time. 
I'm gonna shut it down so it stops spinning my DVD drive.


----------



## Tiamat (Jan 5, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I tried Krita a few times and I have to say it has one of the most aggravating GUIs I've ever encountered.
> 
> It tries to launch the DVD drive for no reason
> 
> ...



Yeah, I wont argue there. I felt the blending was great and thought the hassles it put me through were just from using it for the first time...I was wrong.


----------



## Taralack (Jan 5, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> There *are* versions of Sketchbook Express that are free but they are bundled with Wacom tablets. Sketchbook Express is a limited version of Sketchbook Pro. As I said Sketchbook Pro is only 40 bucks. It's not that expensive.
> 
> As far as I can see and tell Sketchbook Pro is not listed as part of the student download catalog. http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=download_center *Confirmed there is no student version for free*
> 
> ...



Maybe this is a recent change, but I have Sketchbook Pro under a student license.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 5, 2013)

Toraneko said:


> Maybe this is a recent change, but I have Sketchbook Pro under a student license.



There were student copies of Sketchbook pro like 2009 and such. Since I'm talking about the latest version Sketchbook Pro 6 - there isn't

This also isn't to be confused with Sketchbook Pro Designer, where you can get a student copy. That software is also much more expensive. Amazon has it listed at $469 - http://amzn.com/B007RKLV7W - I also should note that Sketchbook Designer will no longer be retail either. 

Sketchbook pro has been put on multiple platforms now so I'm not surprised there isn't really a student copy anymore. As I said, it's *40* bucks off amazon, and *60* off their website full versions. That's cheaper than most student textbooks and money people blow on the latest video games these days.


----------



## Taralack (Jan 5, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> There were student copies of Sketchbook pro like 2009 and such. Since I'm talking about the latest version Sketchbook Pro 6 - there isn't
> 
> This also isn't to be confused with Sketchbook Pro Designer, where you can get a student copy. That software is also much more expensive. Amazon has it listed at $469 - http://amzn.com/B007RKLV7W - I also should note that Sketchbook Designer will no longer be retail either.
> 
> Sketchbook pro has been put on multiple platforms now so I'm not surprised there isn't really a student copy anymore. As I said, it's *40* bucks off amazon, and *60* off their website full versions. That's cheaper than most student textbooks and money people blow on the latest video games these days.



Hrm ok. The version I have is 2011. What are the differences between them? I'm curious.

Speaking of cheap art programs, what do you think of Art Rage? It's $60 on Steam, was 40 or 50 during the sale but I missed out on buying it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 5, 2013)

Well I kinda listed the updates which spells out differences in 2011 vs "2012" aka Sketchbook Pro 6. They made improvements to the Brush GUI so its interface is better imo. Also more compatible with touch functionality. 


I like Art Rage, and I think if you paint traditionally it emulates it pretty close. If I remember correctly the team who worked on Art Rage actually were the same people who developed the mixer pad for Painter. It still has odd bugs with Color blending even if you use "use real color blending". 

Tiamat actually uses the program more than I do. I also like their Watercolors in the latest version. There isn't support for 64 bit unfortunately so there are limitations. But for the price it's still pretty good. I love their palette knife, I wish Painter had this damn knife (the Artist Oils has one that is close but not quite). On the other hand I wish the brush controls were easier to use for shortcuts. For example I'm a heavy "ctrl+alt" user. I use on the fly brush sizing A LOT vs "hulk smash! Bracket sizing".

If you want some good demos in action Nick Harris has one.

http://www.imaginefx.com/02287754329985955219/nick-harris-and-artrage-3.html

[yt]ek8bwvH63XU[/yt]

Also could try doing a demo using this? https://plus.google.com/+DanielIbanez/posts/SwDS3koTVYj


----------



## Arshes Nei (Feb 12, 2013)

Although this is more on traditional painting, some of the understanding of these theories can help a bit when working digitally.

http://www.johnmuirlaws.com/art-and-drawing/color-theory 

http://maggiemaggio.com/color/tutorials/

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/wcolor.html

Gurney on "mud" http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2008/05/mud-debate.html

Gurney on the Color wheel - I am linking part 4 but the other parts are in his blog linked at the bottom - http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2010/02/color-wheel-part-4.html

For color mixing digitally, this blog talks about the LAB color space.

http://yinako.wordpress.com/2006/10/29/color-mixing-with-lab-mode-in-photoshop/


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 15, 2013)

Just a note for users. ArtRage 4 has been released today, it's 50 on Steam but upgrades it's about 25 dollars

http://www.artrage.com/artrage-4.html

Some of the new features is now you can change the brush head on oil brushes and save the preset.
You can now use transformation tools, cloners. There's now symmetry tools and better Wacom stylus support (FINALLY!)

You can see a comparison of the new features here
http://www.artrage.com/files/artrage_product_comparison.pdf

I've been testing it out and the better Wacom support is definitely felt in this version. Still testing other features out right now.


----------



## Tiamat (Feb 15, 2013)

The Wacom support is fantastic, the old method of changing brush sizes is a hard habit to break though and is still quicker than the wacom circle. (Holding shift and dragging the stylus) 

Everything going smooth so far. I'm checking it out by carrying on with my commission using it. As I start detailing the image and such I'll get a better idea on the new brush options.


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## Zydala (Feb 15, 2013)

Oh nice! I loved Art Rage 3, I'll probably pick up the upgrade when I have the chance! 

Do you know if you bought the windows version of Art Rage, if the upgrade can only be Windows? I just got access to a Mac recently, and I don't like switching to Windows on my Dual-Boot Ubuntu very much... I will if I have to, lol...

Oh speaking of, do you think a post on Linux software is still relevant? I've been meaning to get on it recently and I have lots of time this weekend. Do you think it should be a post here, or its own thread? Should I focus on the Linux aspect, or maybe just the FOSS (Free and Open Source) aspect of it?


----------



## Tiamat (Feb 15, 2013)

I think you can actually upgrade to MAC...the 'upgrade' is a standalone program and it says this on the download screen: ArtRage 4 Upgrade
            Win / Mac, Mac OS X 10.6, Mac OS X 10.7, Mac O  US $24.95
            Download


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## Zydala (Feb 15, 2013)

Excellent! ...except the old mac I was given is 10.5, grrrr. lol... I'll look into the upgrade then.

Also along with my linux post question... Arshes do you think it's time to maybe clean up this thread? :] take all the useful posts and put them altogether maybe


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 16, 2013)

If you want to it's fine. Just keep a link from this original in the new one. It's because when you separate sometimes helpful information is on the original thread so it helps keep context.


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## Zydala (Feb 16, 2013)

Nice!  okay sounds good


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## Tiamat (Feb 17, 2013)

If in the meantime I could post this here?

Don't stress about the Artrage update just yet. I'm a big fan of having the latest version of my favorite programs and its only a step up of course...but the added wacom support is not quite properly implemented. I still use the old method of changing the cursor size, much more efficient that way. Also the 'eraser' of the stylus does not change size at all via the touch ring. (But still works via the old method) the new brush options are great for that extra tweak, but only if you are really trying to emulate real media. (and no program does that properly yet) 

The old processor problems are still there, but thats nothing new. But to reiterate, this program is very CPU heavy and does not ride piggy back on the graphics card or extra ram.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 17, 2013)

I don't know why the brush bracket shortcut is an issue for not upgrading?
The touch ring is customizable, you can use any shortcut you wish, not just what Wacom defaults it to. I change mine all the time. So I don't think this relevant to the upgrade.

The slowness happens due to the fact the program is still 32 bit if I remember correctly, and once it starts getting brushes over 100% slowness occurs. 

The upgrade path, unlike a lot of other software is really inexpensive. Artrage allows you to use multiple computers with that license too. There's no limit. So even if there are still problems with the upgrade because it's still 32 bit and doesn't take advantage of certain things the big programs take, the price/features upgrade to multiple computers still weigh out more benefits and cons.


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## Tiamat (Feb 17, 2013)

I did not mean to say -dont- upgrade, I meant that its no rush just yet if you are using the 3 series of Studio Pro. There are some nice new features but personally I feel this could have just been part of the 3 series instead of calling it Artrage 4. So if you have never used Artrage before, check out what has been said about it earlier. Its still my favorite program, but you need a hefty CPU to work on anything above the 250 dpi range. The lack of a 64 bit option is unfortunately what keeps the price range down, so its a catch 22 on that issue.

I must add though that this program, despite chugging occasionally, is extremely stable. I've never ever had a crash and I work big.


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## Zydala (Feb 17, 2013)

Haha I upgraded yesterday and bought the upgrade for the mac OS I wanna use it on. oops

Actually Tiamat have you tried the new workstations and scrap papers options yet? I really love them! I agree there aren't too many big big changes (though the transform is nice), but it does feel a bit more stable and customizable. And I'm happy to get on board early and support them; hopefully soon they'll get a means to be able to support 64-bit and maybe look into using ram so people can work larger without lag.

Honestly ArtRage is my second favorite painting program next to MyPaint, so I'm super happy that they're still supporting updates 

P.S. I'll clean up this thread tonight, gotta go to work but I put it on my HabitRPG list so it'll get done ;]


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 17, 2013)

Well I'm not so sure it could stay as part of the 3 line since the things I noticed are:

Even more GUI customizations. "Workbench Mode"
Symmetry mode - every other paint program that adds that usually means a full version upgrade, Painter, Sketchbook Pro etc..

The oil brush customizations sold it for me - I admit. I'm tired of the sameness "obvious digital oil brush trying to look like real oil brushes" now I can actually adjust the strokes better. Square head and aspect. Thank you for the rotation!


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## Tiamat (Feb 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Symmetry mode - every other paint program that adds that usually means a full version upgrade, Painter, Sketchbook Pro etc..



I did not know that, fair comment then!


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## Zydala (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm gonna close this thread since I made another thread with all the helpful stuff and I'd like us to start using that one c:


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