# When A Band 'Betrays' You



## Cocobanana (Nov 27, 2011)

It is my honest believe that music, and music alone, has kept me alive. When the aural landscape gets translated from the speakers to my ears, I am in a happier place. I'm traveling the world, or flying high above a city dotted with neon lights, or sitting on a park bench with the singer next to me where we shoot the shit while fluffy snowflakes off themselves against cobblestones and grass. It can make me move, inspire me, and scare away the ghosts of self doubt. 

But some music is more special than others. It's only a few bands and songs that can really pull out my broken heart and stitch it up once again. These bands are the ones I'm more forgiving of if they decide to experiment or make some tunes that are too similar to old ones. It's like they're my friends, and you don't drop a friend just because he accidentally knocked over your ice cream cone or stepped on the back of your foot when walking too close behind. Yet some mistakes are pretty much unforgivable, and it's these that this thread is about.

The biggest gaffe a band has made I can recall, stems from the vocalist and chief songwriter of Deerhunter, named Bradford Cox. For the first two albums by Deerhunter, as well as two solo albums under the name 'Atlas Sound,' Bradford had brought a melancholy distance to his music that connected with me like few bands can. He sang about isolation, the fears of growing older, and a general confusion about where to go next. He sounded clinically depressed, just like I can feel. 

However, on his latest cds, both with Deerhunter and Atlas Sound, there was a huge shift in tone. There is nothing that rocks out anymore, the lyrics are much more hopeful, and it sounds like a complete turn around from where he'd been before. The music isn't bad, but now it feels fake, soulless, and as if he doesn't understand the place me and many of his other fans are coming from anymore. Not to mention, the changing sound defeats the purpose of him having a solo project because his new one sounds about the same as what his main band is doing.

Bradford Cox broke my heart, though I will always love his older cds, he has gone on to do 'better' things and left the outcasts behind. 

Now, how about you guys? Anyone upset about the new cd Metallica made with Lou Reed? Or maybe a group you liked who made folk music started making electronic rap and it's awful? How did a band or musician you used to love leave ya in the dust?

(Concise version)

This thread is about when bands you really like change something, whether losing/gaining a member, changing musical styles or lyrical content, and go from being awesome to sucking, to you. Also my example of such an instance.


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## Cyril (Nov 27, 2011)

Pain of Salvation - Scarsick
'nuff said

(long story: prog metal band goes from writing an illustrious concept album, fully orchestrated, to a retarded "screw America" album that's incredibly rough, uninspired, and has awful lyrics. The first 5 pain of salvation albums are all gold and some of the best in my collection... their last 3 don't come close, but at least their latest is a step back in the right direction. Hopefully.)


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## BRN (Nov 27, 2011)

Bizarrely, Linkin Park's newest album A Thousand Suns was considered a betrayal by their fans, but I like it more than any other.

On the flip side, I really used to like 3 Doors Down, until I tried looking at their recent stuff.


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## Slighted (Nov 27, 2011)

I think I was must upset recently with Noah and the Whale, the debut album was just a bright shiny piece of joy, but then the lead singer started kicking people out of his band and churned out a bunch of navel gazing meh, it was too bad...

You didn't like the new Deerhunter? I liked it well enough. I couldn't get into the Antlers latest one, though. For sure.


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 27, 2011)

I think it's mostly when band members come and go. One of the things that attracted some people is lost (the talent, the style, and the energy brought out by the mix of members), yet it brings in something different that brings in different people. It's like it alters the fanbase entirely.


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## Slighted (Nov 27, 2011)

Reaching way back, cuz I'm in my 30's, the Smashing Pumpkins really fell apart after Mellon Collie...

(Hello... is this mic on? Hello...?)


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## Cocobanana (Nov 27, 2011)

Gibby said:


> I think it's mostly when band members come and go. One of the things that attracted some people is lost (the talent, the style, and the energy brought out by the mix of members), yet it brings in something different that brings in different people. It's like it alters the fanbase entirely.



Like when you elect a president who champions change but he ends up just like all the rest 
And yeah that seems to happen with the bands who have been around longer (like Yes) or some of the fluke groups who normally hate each others' guts but had just the right amount of chemistry to tolerate each other for a great album or so, like Guns n Roses.


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## Rhodri (Nov 27, 2011)

Slipknot. Perhaps not the classiest choice in bands, but when I was a teenager (and a really rather angry teenager at that), Slipknot was exactly what I was looking for. Everything up until The Subliminal Verses (which in itself wasn't too offensive to my ears at the time) was perfection in my opinion, but after that they have simply gone to shit. I believe it to be a case of Corey Taylor's voice becoming bigger than the band. Which I think can be attributed to the downfall of several other bands, where the singer begins to eclipse the music and changes the entire style as a result. 

On an unrelated note, I wish I had known about Strapping Young Lad when I was in that phase. I don't particularly like any of their albums other than Alien, but good god, that is some furiously angry music.


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 27, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> Like when you elect a president who champions change but he ends up just like all the rest



Not quite. It's just when something changes somewhere, it's never the same again. For some people that can be bad, thus a "betrayal", and for some, it's not a problem - those people normally being the new/different fanbase.


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## Cyril (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh while I'm here I guess I can go list some more.
Cloudkicker. The first album - totally in love with it. But all his other stuff... I find it just plain boring. Maybe I haven't listened to it enough, but it seems like one of those things where an artist puts out one really good album then sticks to that formula and makes albums trying to be that album but fail miserably at it. That sounds confusing but whatever.
Can't really think of any other bands that have "betrayed" me so to speak... though Oceansize broke up way before they should've, they were still making awesome stuff... broke up only a few months after their last album came out.


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## Evan of Phrygia (Nov 27, 2011)

As Cities Burn, although not such a stab in the back as a change that felt unwelcome. They went from a dark original metalcore sound to a more alternative train of thought. Both possessed a bit of sharpness, as though something was trying to escape. The third album they released, Hell or High Water, completely dropped the ball there. It went completely alternative and is no longer even mildly dark in the same regards.
The Mars Volta's Bedlam in Goliath felt the same way, but Octahedron has quite a few redeeming qualities.
Panic At the Disco...well everything after Pretty. Odd. i don't listen to.
There's also Led Zeppelin, when John Paul Jones started becoming more influential in the process. I don't think the Zeppelin feel was retained.
I have been unsure with Children of bodom. i don't know; some of it feels good and other times i don't recognize it.
I used to feel Job for a cowboy did this but now i prefer the opposite. some of entombment of a machine just feels silly now.
There's also Black Dahlia Murder. They've begun to feel more robotic. Miasma was good because it felt natural, and i find the more natural metal to be blacker which is nice. Nocturnal wasn't bad at all, but the album that followed it wasn't high in my regards. felt just flat.
There's also Yes, who went all out ballad rock and basically knocked out the prog.
Then there's Chicago, and Rush (the great synth takeover and the killing of neil pearts chops)
Metallica kinda lost me, and AC/DC does not feel the same AT ALL. it just lost its touch.
Fall out boy just felt like it was maturing backwards, i don't know with that one.

All imo here so please don't accuse me of calling out good music, this just from my perspective


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## Cocobanana (Nov 27, 2011)

This is Tides said:


> As Cities Burn, although not such a stab in the back as a change that felt unwelcome. They went from a dark original metalcore sound to a more alternative train of thought. Both possessed a bit of sharpness, as though something was trying to escape. The third album they released, Hell or High Water, completely dropped the ball there. It went completely alternative and is no longer even mildly dark in the same regards.
> The Mars Volta's Bedlam in Goliath felt the same way, but Octahedron has quite a few redeeming qualities.
> Panic At the Disco...well everything after Pretty. Odd. i don't listen to.
> There's also Led Zeppelin, when John Paul Jones started becoming more influential in the process. I don't think the Zeppelin feel was retained.
> ...



And your honest perspective is what we want and is quite appreciated. You're just sharing bands you don't feel connected to anymore if I listened to many of them I might have similar or different opinions who knows.


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## Ilse (Nov 27, 2011)

Alice Cooper did a collaboration album with Ke$ha recently. Not sure how to feel about that. Reeaallly not sure.
Def Leppard after the '80s kind of disappoints me... still love 'em tho. God I wish they'd pump out stuff like _High 'n' Dry _or _Pyromania _again. :3c
The Sweet after Brian Connolly left depresses me super bad, period. They go into late '70s disco hits, and the basisst gets an afro at some point?? What happened

I guess I just stick to albums and songs and band eras I'm familiar with, and if I don't like a particular style my fave band's going with then I pretty much erase it from memory rofl. The only thing I'd feel 'betrayed' about is the attitude of any of the band members or whatever, like hearing about Eric Clapton's drunken racist rant in '76 and Eddie Van Halen being a manchild about dumb shit in the '80s... lol. Then I'm like... maaann. That sucks, I thought they were cool. Dissapoint 8[


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## LizardKing (Nov 27, 2011)

Nine Inch Nails - Anything after _The Fragile_ was boring and dull. He should get back on the drugs again :V


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## Conker (Nov 27, 2011)

You know OP, your example kind of bothers me. Perhaps the lead singer was actually clinically depressed and vented his feelings out into his music for a time. But if he found another way to break through his depression and put that in his music, then shouldn't you be happy for him for overcoming such an obstacle? 

Anyhow, on topic:

Cold was one of my favorite bands growing up. I dunno how to describe their music really. It was rock music, but it was kind of surreal because all the band members were on drugs. Or at least the lead singer was. Then they broke up. Fine, that happens. Now they are back together and drug free and their new music is terrible. I dunno if it's because the band is drug free or if it's just because what they are trying to do is bad, but meh. Not a fan. Disappointing.

I really like old school Papa Roach to. Now their music is just generic radio rock. If you go back and listen to a song like "Infest" and then hear their new single, which is a love song at that, the difference is night and day.

I don't like Korn's delve into dubstep, but I like their dubstep more than actual dubstep which to me sounds like noise. 

Godsmack's fourth album was terrible because they tried to experiment with a more bluesy sound. Sully gave the other band members more control and they did something too different. Thankfully their new ablum is good.


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## DarrylWolf (Nov 27, 2011)

For me, a band can betray you simply by not releasing anything after some good Cds.


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## Cocobanana (Nov 27, 2011)

Conker said:


> You know OP, your example kind of bothers me. Perhaps the lead singer was actually clinically depressed and vented his feelings out into his music for a time. But if he found another way to break through his depression and put that in his music, then shouldn't you be happy for him for overcoming such an obstacle?
> 
> Anyhow, on topic:
> 
> ...



Oh, of course I'm happy for him and hope he's doing well, and the music is still technically good. But I'm still in that bad place, and so to me it's as if you and a friend are both in Alcoholics Anonymous, going to fight the firewater demon together, only to have him graduate a week early because he hasn't shown any of the struggles of possible regression and instead of still going for your moral support just kind of leaving you there to fend for yourself.

He didn't make any promises to me to stick around and be sad with me through his music, so it's not like I'm mad at him, but I can't connect to his new stuff like I could his old stuff. If that makes sense.


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## Conker (Nov 27, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> Oh, of course I'm happy for him and hope he's doing well, and the music is still technically good. But I'm still in that bad place, and so to me it's as if you and a friend are both in Alcoholics Anonymous, going to fight the firewater demon together, only to have him graduate a week early because he hasn't shown any of the struggles of possible regression and instead of still going for your moral support just kind of leaving you there to fend for yourself.
> 
> He didn't make any promises to me to stick around and be sad with me through his music, so it's not like I'm mad at him, but I can't connect to his new stuff like I could his old stuff. If that makes sense.


It does. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Aikoi (Nov 27, 2011)

Kate McGill, she was all acoustic and calm stuff, a disco-company bought her and made her a 'Pop' singer. 
It's just not the same.


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## eversleep (Nov 27, 2011)

Just my opinion, you don't OWN a band, they can do whatever they want. You're not married to them, and therefore they're not cheating on you. So they technically don't betray you. Artistic freedom. Let them do what they want and find a new band to like.


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## Cocobanana (Nov 27, 2011)

eversleep said:


> Just my opinion, you don't OWN a band, they can do whatever they want. You're not married to them, and therefore they're not cheating on you. So they technically don't betray you. Artistic freedom. Let them do what they want and find a new band to like.



No shit Sherlock. Unless you understand where I'm coming from, there's no reason for bashing since it's a perfectly reasonable thing to feel. I never said I owned them and the word betray is punctuated in a way which implies they aren't REALLY doing it but a feeling might be there temporarily, or maybe you thought you knew where they were going and they took a left turn which can be good or bad.


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## Captain Howdy (Nov 27, 2011)

Devildriver used to be an awesome garage-band sounding death metal group that was self-aware and wrote some ridiculous lyrics.

Now they're a mall-metal/Hot topic-pop-metal group that is deluded itself and shooting straight for the money. Their sound changed rather dramatically from their 2nd to their 3rd album. 

Another is a band like Job for a cowboy, they were actually improving their sound dramatically with each album. They went from shit, to screamo, to metalcore, to death core, and almost fully a death metal band now...except they basically are sounding like a few major bands that already exist, and completely shunning their unique sound - On top of that, they went from working very unique lyrics and building their own sound...Then into just terrible political metal.

Decapitated lost their members, so it's hard to blame them, but their new singer sucks, and has completely changed the sound of the band in a bad way - It's a screamo or metalcore vocalist for the (now former) top death metal acts. A true shame, because they managed to get Krimh, who's an amazing drummer, and another amazing guitarist from a band I can't recall.


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## Conker (Nov 28, 2011)

eversleep said:


> Just my opinion, you don't OWN a band, they can do whatever they want. You're not married to them, and therefore they're not cheating on you. So they technically don't betray you. Artistic freedom. Let them do what they want and find a new band to like.


You stated the obvious!

But, when you listen to a band from their beginning, in the case of Godsmack or Papa Roach for me, and you're used to them being in a certain genre, and then they just 180 and make music you don't care for, you tend to feel a bit disappointed/pissed/betrayed. Sometimes they go back to their old sound. Godsmack did. Sometimes they don't. Papa Roach didn't. I don't listen to them anymore. 

Also, while I don't like that Korn changed their sound, I do kinda like their two singles that play on the radio. Wonder if I'll grab the album :V


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## Vaelarsa (Nov 29, 2011)

If music has been the "only thing keeping you alive," you need pretty heavy therapy.
Like super fucking bad.
Because that's just pitiful.

I think the only thing I've felt remotely close to "disappointment" following a band and its changes in sound was when AFI went all soft pop rock, or whatever.
I don't even like the band any more, really, but that's the only thing I can remember.
All the rest, I either liked the changes, never kept up with their new stuff enough to notice, or got into them later when the "new" stuff was part of the whole beginning experience package.


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## Bittertooth (Nov 29, 2011)

I was a massive Korn fan for most of my teen years, they're all catchy and cool-sounding, but their Korn III album... I'm just unable to listen to it a second time.  As for their dubstep stuff... dunno, it's really different and might get my interest again.


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## Pine (Nov 29, 2011)

[video=youtube;8LWtb621DRg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LWtb621DRg[/video]

Somebody get Lars off those cymbals.
Also, James is the table.


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## Rhodri (Nov 29, 2011)

Pine said:


> Somebody get Lars off those cymbals.
> Also, James is the table.



Oh sweet (insert deity of choice here). I got to 1:20 and had to stop, the ways in which that was terrible are too numerous to bear. WHY DOES THAT EXIST?


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## General-jwj (Nov 29, 2011)

Pine said:


> Somebody get Lars off those cymbals.
> Also, James is the table.



I couldn't give less fucks about Lars' drumming (honestly I have no musical taste to begin with I can't even tell wheather a guitar is tuned or not ...) but mother of God I hate that this is a Lou Reed album that just happens to feature Metallica on the instrumental (oh hey I just heard James there for a sec).

Lol'd at "I am the table"


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## Slighted (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't like to judge, but there are a lot of terrible bands being name checked around here, just sayin'. 

Listen to more music, there is tons of it out there, guyz.

(I'm not referring to _your_ band, of course, your choice was amazing and awe-inspiring...)


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## General-jwj (Nov 29, 2011)

You can fuck with us for being furries but YOU. DO. NOT. FUCK. WITH. MY. BANDS. D:<

:V


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## Rhodri (Nov 29, 2011)

General-jwj said:


> You can fuck with us for being furries but YOU. DO. NOT. FUCK. WITH. MY. BANDS. D:<
> 
> :V



What he said. I stand by the choices in music I made as a hormone crazed teenager.


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## CAThulu (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm trying to think of a band that has betrayed me, and I can't.  As an artist I understand that the work evolves with the person.  What someone did at the beginning will not reflect what they do in the middle or the end of their career.  Many, MANY bands and musicians change their sound over the course of their career; some for the better, and some not.  I don't like Metallica new work, but do I think they betrayed me?  Hell no.  It's their band.  They still kick ass with their older catalogue.  Same with David Bowie.  Anything after Earthlings I can't stand.  But he's still Bowie.   Just because a sound changes to something other then what I like or what I'm used to hearing from a band doesn't mean that I've been wronged by them.  It's incredibly egotistic to think otherwise.

What pisses me off is when people say 'Trent should go back on the drugs' just so that they can get that sound back from Downward Spiral' (replace name and band with one of your choice).  That was an incredibly painful moment in that man's past, and he was incredibly self destructive at that time.  While it doesn't carry that sound, his music is still good, but now it's coming from a better place; the opposite end of that pain.  He's settled with a wife and kid, has won numerous awards, and is damn happy.  I saw him in concert in 2006 and it was the best show I've seen.  The man works hard for his art and his fans.  And you want him to go back to killing himself with drugs just so you get new music that you like?  Do you know how many musicians have died from that?  That's fucking selfish.


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## Slighted (Nov 29, 2011)

I think the notion of a band betraying you is a flawed one to begin with, as was stated earlier several times. Bands must be allowed to grow and change because listeners of music also evolve their tastes at the same time. Everyone involved with music, as a creator or as a critic, is on a trajectory that demands change. No one can ever be as fully satisfied by the exact same type of music the more they listen to music. To insist things stay as they always were is just another way of stagnating and not growing as a person.


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## Rhodri (Nov 29, 2011)

Perhaps we should stop focusing so much on the wording of OP's post. I think we can safely assume that everyone reading the thread knows what he was saying, despite the oh so very confusing wording (that was sarcasm :V). Every time you read the word 'betrayed', pretend that it actually says 'disappointed that it didn't sound like I wanted it to'. Seriously though, there is pedantry and then there is pedantry.

Now, back to bitching about music.


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## Captain Howdy (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't really understand the growing/evolving thing THAT much, because what makes a band popular...why should it be changed if it's what made them popular >_>


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## Slighted (Nov 29, 2011)

Well, if the music is an honest expression of themselves, then it must change, because change is the one constant of all life. Nothing stays the same, including musicians.


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## Traven V (Nov 29, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Nine Inch Nails - Anything after _The Fragile_ was boring and dull. He should get back on the drugs again :V


XD, hilarious, perhaps so. I hear ya Rhodri, I was disappointed in the latest slipknot CD too XD. OMG, Alice Cooper doing a collab w/ Kesha, that kinda makes me sick XD, he seems like a really cool guy, but he lost his twisted heart a long time ago, probably due to old age lol.  For those interested in Modest Mouse, they have/are working on an album with Big Boi from Outkast, that's going to be crazy O.O


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## Littlerock (Nov 29, 2011)

Disturbed, Believe. 

*UGHHHHHHH*

Also, when The Number 12 Looks Like You broke up.


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## Conker (Nov 29, 2011)

barefootfoof said:


> Disturbed, Believe.


Disturbed is one of my current favorite bands, but I don't think I know any tracts from that album. That bad, huh?


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## Captain Howdy (Nov 29, 2011)

Conker said:


> Disturbed is one of my current favorite bands, but I don't think I know any tracts from that album. That bad, huh?



I can't think of many good songs except for the 2 or 3 off their first, they immediately spiraled into shit after their first album >_> they got better on 1000 fists, but again, only 2 or 3 good songs.


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## Littlerock (Nov 30, 2011)

Conker said:


> Disturbed is one of my current favorite bands, but I don't think I know any tracts from that album. That bad, huh?


Just awful. It's that one album that fans don't like to admit to it's existing.


Lastdirewolf said:


> I can't think of many good songs except for  the 2 or 3 off their first, they immediately spiraled into shit after  their first album >_> they got better on 1000 fists, but again,  only 2 or 3 good songs.



I'm gonna grudgingly agree with this, but at least 'Indestructible'  wasn't too bad, and I honestly enjoyed most of 'the Sickness'.


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## Rhodri (Nov 30, 2011)

barefootfoof said:


> Just awful. It's that one album that fans don't like to admit to it's existing.



It had a Phil Collins cover on it. Enough said.


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## Aeturnus (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm not a fan, but I think KISS didn't a pretty damn good job of betraying their fans. Nothing quite like going on a farewell tour and charging your fans a thousand dollars to do a meet and greet to only go on another tour.


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## Conker (Nov 30, 2011)

barefootfoof said:


> Just awful. It's that one album that fans don't like to admit to it's existing.
> 
> 
> I'm gonna grudgingly agree with this, but at least 'Indestructible'  wasn't too bad, and I honestly enjoyed most of 'the Sickness'.


_Indestructible_ is my favorite album by them. But, I got into them with their newer music, so I really like _Asylum_ and _The Lost Children_ as well. 

I like their new stuff better than their older stuff. That seems to blow people's minds when I say it.


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