# "Horror" Games



## Fernin (Jul 4, 2012)

So, where to begin. With RE6 coming out the grumbling has once again begun about how the games aren't scary any more and capcom has ruined RE bla bla bla. And honestly, I don't agree with this at all. The reason RE isn't 'scary' is the same reason almost every other horror game isn't scary: gamers have matured and what scared them when they were young doesn't do so any more and most gamers, particularly those who've been at it since Alone in the Dark know all the tricks and catches by now. We see most of it coming. It's the same reason seasoned horror movie fans are almost always able to call every shock, scare and what have you. And with modern games where decent functional controls are the norm one no longer has the problem of worrying about their character taking five-six seconds to turn around anymore.

So, there it is I suppose. The tension is still there, but the horror isn't because you're no longer a squealing preteen (well, actually many are still squealing nits, but that's another matter entirely...) whose never seen this stuff before.


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## Rilvor (Jul 4, 2012)

Nope, going to disagree entirely.

Alien still scares me. Regenerators still scare me. The piano in Super Mario 64 gets me every time. Majora's Mask is still the creepiest game on the planet.

Horror is about subtlety. Many, many games and movies lack it or fail to understand what subtlety is.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 4, 2012)

i don't think RE trys to be scary much anymore. also horror games are way more scary than movies. horror movies tend to only rely on jump scares which aren't really scares but more so the normal reaction of something popping out of nowhere making a loud sound. games tend to have a lot more immersion and some try to actual give some psychological horror.


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## Bipolar Bear (Jul 4, 2012)

People have different tastes when it comes to Horror, and with different styles comes with different opinions.

There's 'Tension' horror, which is my favorite. The kind where you're walking along a dark corridor and you hear that old familiar "Creak!". But you don't want to look around at the fear of seeing a screaming mad-woman with her eyes gouged out, sprinting right at you with a chainsaw, all the while your running for your life and pumping round after round into but she still doesn't die and she chops your head off! 

*cough* Sorry.

I'm just saying, CAPCOM are just teaching this old dog the same tricks it learned as a pup, and it's time has come for this dog to be put down so they can get a new puppy! (=D

And teach it the same tricks... l=/


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## Project H311H0UND (Jul 4, 2012)

Bipolar Bear said:


> I'm just saying, CAPCOM are just teaching this old dog the same tricks it learned as a pup, and it's time has come for this dog to be put down so they can get a new puppy! (=D
> 
> And teach it the same tricks... l=/



Agreed. Capcom needs to do a reboot of the RE series and make it scary again. The new games suck.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 4, 2012)

Project H311H0UND said:


> Agreed. Capcom needs to do a reboot of the RE series and make it scary again. The new games suck.



Tbh I'd prefer it if it _wasn't_ Capcom. They seem to be really incompetent when it comes to horror games now.

I'd wish they'd reboot Dino Crisis though. That wasn't a horror game (though the first did have some srs tension and the potential for horror) but DC2 was pretty well recieved and it was action above all.


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## CaptainCool (Jul 4, 2012)

Gibby said:


> Tbh I'd prefer it if it _wasn't_ Capcom. They seem to be really incompetent when it comes to horror games now.
> 
> I'd wish they'd reboot Dino Crisis though. That wasn't a horror game (though the first did have some srs tension and the potential for horror) but DC2 was pretty well recieved and it was action above all.



oh yes, i agree! a new dino crisis would be great^^ dinos make everything better afterall!


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 4, 2012)

CaptainCool said:


> oh yes, i agree! a new dino crisis would be great^^ dinos make everything better afterall!



Seriously though when I was a wee boy I used to get scared at god damn Trespasser. And DC1 gave me the creeps at times (DC2 was just fun). 

I would love a new dino-themed game to come out that can prove to be "scary" and give the player a strong feeling of helplessnes and lozza tension. But, you know, dinosaurs are just for kids. -_- Bullshit I say. The DC games were _full_ of brutal imagery.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jul 4, 2012)

A lot of indie games deliver horror pretty damn well. May not be gore, but fear.
Such examples: SCP-173, SCP 87b, Slender, Occasionally Amnesia....
Modern mainstream games just go too much into predictability. Monster behind every door, Ominous music, Long corridor... Yeah we can see those coming by a longshot.
But if you tell the player there's nothing, and most of the time there isn't, the times there is something it will make you crap your pants.
Also usually the player can easily best even the toughest enemy. The feeling of helplessness creates tension far better.


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## Bipolar Bear (Jul 4, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> A lot of indie games deliver horror pretty damn well. May not be gore, but fear.
> Such examples: SCP-173, SCP 87b, Slender, Occasionally Amnesia....
> Modern mainstream games just go too much into predictability. Monster behind every door, Ominous music, Long corridor... Yeah we can see those coming by a longshot.
> But if you tell the player there's nothing, and most of the time there isn't, the times there is something it will make you crap your pants.
> Also usually the player can easily best even the toughest enemy. The feeling of helplessness creates tension far better.



And THAT, my friend, is the problem this generations general brand of Horror games. Too much Gore, not enough Fear. Amnesia, Penumbra, SCP, these games incite that adrenaline rush you get from a *Real *Horror game. But instead, they just up the Gore-factor and splatter as much blood on the screen so you can't see what is actually trying to scare you. XD


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 4, 2012)

Bipolar Bear said:


> And THAT, my friend, is the problem this generations general brand of Horror games. Too much Gore, not enough Fear. Amnesia, Penumbra, SCP, these games incite that adrenaline rush you get from a *Real *Horror game. But instead, they just up the Gore-factor and splatter as much blood on the screen so you can't see what is actually trying to scare you. XD



Nothing wrong with nasty-ass gore in a horror game, though. But if you're making it a key part, you're being stupid.

The Walking Dead game (not so much of a horror game) has its gory moments that are pretty gory, but it's their _execution_ that really matters. I found them rather unpleasant. .___.

Plus, its gore isn't overly frequent. It doesn't keep throwing it in your face at every turn so it starts to become perfectly normal and nothing to care about.


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## Fernin (Jul 4, 2012)

Bipolar Bear said:


> And THAT, my friend, is the problem this generations general brand of Horror games. Too much Gore, not enough Fear. Amnesia, Penumbra, SCP, these games incite that adrenaline rush you get from a *Real *Horror game. But instead, they just up the Gore-factor and splatter as much blood on the screen so you can't see what is actually trying to scare you. XD



I never found Penumbra or Amnesia to be that scary. Tense as hell, sure. But scary? No.


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## Bipolar Bear (Jul 4, 2012)

Gibby said:


> Nothing wrong with nasty-ass gore in a horror game, though. But if you're making it a key part, you're being stupid.
> 
> The Walking Dead game (not so much of a horror game) has its gory moments that are pretty gory, but it's their _execution_ that really matters. I found them rather unpleasant. .___.
> 
> Plus, its gore isn't overly frequent. It doesn't keep throwing it in your face at every turn so it starts to become perfectly normal and nothing to care about.



Not at all, Gibby. Merely an observation on a fair few current Horror games that focus too much on Gore and not on the sheer grotesque, spine-chilling sights you are privy to in games such as SCP, Penumbra etc. And while I agree The Walking Dead does it's gore in fashion which adds to the horror element, it's still the exception and not the rule. 

But hey! That doesn't mean I'm not a fan of it! Gore in Horror games for me is like the vanilla ice cream around a Banana Split. You can't have one without the other.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 4, 2012)

OoT's Armos still give me nightmares. I'm a grown ass man! Nintendo did horror correctly, by putting a fucking E on the box.
And fuck Shadow Temple's music.
Don't get me started on what Crocomire and Mother Brain did to me either. T-T


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## Neoi (Jul 4, 2012)

The reason RE6 isn't scary because apparently Capcom wanted to go a different root with the series and turn into into more of an action because games like call of duty are getting so much money on their sales. So I would blame COD for the series taking a downturn.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jul 4, 2012)

Bipolar Bear said:


> And THAT, my friend, is the problem this generations general brand of Horror games. Too much Gore, not enough Fear. Amnesia, Penumbra, SCP, these games incite that adrenaline rush you get from a *Real *Horror game. But instead, they just up the Gore-factor and splatter as much blood on the screen so you can't see what is actually trying to scare you. XD


*Cough*Dead space *Cough*


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## Bipolar Bear (Jul 4, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> *Cough* Dead Space *Cough*



Oh, don't get me started...


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## Unsilenced (Jul 4, 2012)

Only bad horror has an expiration date. Jump scares wear out quickly, as do body horror monsters that you have to look at for an extended period of time. 

"Oh look. That zombie has inexplicably glowing eyes. How quaint." 

Horror is, at it's most basic level, based on the breakdown of normality. Good horror means you can't trust your environment to behave in the way it should. Maybe that wall will start moving. Maybe skulls will fall out of that cupboard. Maybe a little girl will pop up and absolutely wreck your shit. 

These things aren't normal, and that's a huge part of why they're scary. They take us out of our comfort zone. Horror breaks the rules of reality. 

The problem is that, in breaking the rules of reality, horror games and movies tend to set up rules of their own. A vent always means a monster to jump out, flickering light means you're going to be attacked, and a long corridor always means there will be something that prevents you from reaching the other side. These cliches can be subverted though, especially in new franchises. When you start up the game for the first time, you don't know what the monster vent looks like, and it's pretty easy to just not put something in the middle of a corridor. 

Unfortunately, when you make a series of games, you kind of need to set up rules. You need to link your game to the ones that came before it in terms of gameplay. Sequels rely on these conventions, and that makes it hard to be, well, unconventional. While horror games rely on being unfamiliar and untrustworthy, sequels usually need to expand the universe in order to be engaging. Sure you can try to do things like move the whole thing to a new location and have a new outbreak that's... newer, but people are still going to be more familiar with the monsters and how they work. Isaac Clarke didn't forget to shoot for the limbs, and even if he did the player certainly didn't. Fighting a known enemy isn't scary, it's just fighting. It may be frightening the first time you find out your enemy is basically unkillable, but after spending hours and hours beating them, what are they going to do? Make them more unkillabler? 

By the time you get to the sixth game in the series, you've got to have a pretty damned fleshed-out universe, and it's hard, perhaps impossible to regain that feeling of being dropped straight into hell without a map. They could try to make it so that new players to the series wouldn't have a clue what was going on, but then there would be nothing for the older players and it would be a terrible sequel. If they cater to the older players though they have to treat the discoveries of the first 5 games as common knowledge, meaning that any "mysteries" in the game will have to be pretty much insanely convoluted, and have some basis on what's already been established. 


There's nothing preventing a new, stand-alone game from being scary, because every game gets to make it's own rules. 

Once you set those rules in place though and start making sequels though, there's not a lot of room to change. It's not that people necessarily become immune to things that scared them in general, but often the specific things within a particular story. A gory, mutant clawed monster won't scare me in Dead Space because I've seen those particular monsters a thousand times before and, since the game knows that I won't be scared by a simple monster, it's being fired out of a cannon. A gory, mutant clawed monster an Amnesia however makes me run and hide in a closet because holy shit, what the fuck was that? 


Horror games need to be confusing and unpredictable. Sequels need to be accessible and understandable. 

This is why we can't have nice things.


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## RedFoxTwo (Jul 7, 2012)

I don't know why there's always so much hate for non-scary horror games like Dead Space and RE. Sure they don't incite even the tiniest flinches from most people, but that doesn't mean they're not _sublime_ - in the old fashioned use of the word. 

Games like Dead Space aren't genuinely scary, but they're unsettling enough that it makes the game _feel exciting_, where otherwise it would be a rather deflated shooter. I like sublime a lot more than I like genuinely frightening, which is why I stay away from Amnesia, but revel in Dead Space. I'm not one of those people who gets enjoyment from terror.


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## Heliophobic (Jul 8, 2012)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> some try to actual give some psychological horror



As opposed to physical horror?


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## RedFoxTwo (Jul 8, 2012)

Sollux said:


> As opposed to physical horror?


Dead Space is the master of physical horror I should think.

More fridge horror than anything else but still...


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## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2012)

RedFoxTwo said:


> I don't know why there's always so much hate for non-scary horror games like Dead Space and RE. Sure they don't incite even the tiniest flinches from most people, but that doesn't mean they're not _sublime_ - in the old fashioned use of the word.



People always like to make me feel like less of a gamer when I say I like Dead Space over RE. :<
Truth is, I hate RE entirely. Now, who wants to be next to cry about it? Dead Space was just more fun to me. 
RE isn't a _bad_ design. It's a great game, just not designed for _me_ which I don't want or expect it to because not everyone is like me. But, judging from the "problems" of RE5, I think that may be one I'd enjoy. 
I think TECHNICAL programming issues should be used to judge professionally if a game is bad. Not what you were hoping it would be design wise because the "problems" may bring more of an audience. If it isn't put in a bad light. Deviation =/= bad design unless it COMPLETELY derails to the point of being a spinoff. Most issues I hear from fans of anything is all preference.


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## Unsilenced (Jul 8, 2012)

RedFoxTwo said:


> I don't know why there's always so much hate for non-scary horror games like Dead Space and RE. Sure they don't incite even the tiniest flinches from most people, but that doesn't mean they're not _sublime_ - in the old fashioned use of the word.
> 
> Games like Dead Space aren't genuinely scary, but they're unsettling enough that it makes the game _feel exciting_, where otherwise it would be a rather deflated shooter. I like sublime a lot more than I like genuinely frightening, which is why I stay away from Amnesia, but revel in Dead Space. I'm not one of those people who gets enjoyment from terror.



The first game had some good atmosphere and while not by any means pants-wettingly terrifying, at least managed to be tense. 

The second game though... ughhh. 

"OMG! AIRLOCK BREACH! SHOOT THE LITTLE METAL TARGET TO NOT DIE!" 
I'm sorry, what? Is this a safety mechanism or a carnival game? If I do it 12 times, do I get a giant teddy bear? 

I mean, yeah the first game had some stuff like that, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have a literal bulls-eye pop up for you to shoot to operate the airlock. If it did, it was at least better-managed such that I didn't remember. 

There are a lot of things that can increase suspense. Imagining a carnie yelling "STEP RIGHT UP! STEP RIGHT UP! TRY YOUR LUCK AT THE AIRLOCK O' DEATH AND WIN SOME PRIZES!" is not one of them.


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## Conker (Jul 8, 2012)

In order for something to remain horrific, it has to dive deep into "the thought that counts." _Alien_ was scary the first time I watched it for the obvious reasons of seeing a new monster and the occasional jump scares within. But, _Alien_ can still remain scary if you just think about the lifecycle of that creature. First it rapes you, then it kills you through birth, and then it'll probably eat your corpse because food is food. 

Horror games can start out scary, but after a point, they begin to feel like games. The next room has a monster, but you're so used to killing monsters that it becomes part of the norm. The first few Necromorphs in _Dead Space_ freaked me out, but after that it became part of the norm to shoot their legs off and then stomp em down. 

I love the first _Dead Space_ game though; haven't played the second. 

H.P. Lovecraft does horror pretty well, I think. His stories aren't exactly scary until you think about parts of them. "Shadow out of Time" is like that. The character's narration is more interesting than scary until you try and empathize with him. The flight at the end is fairly frightening, though you never see the monster or even know if it actually exists. 

Horror games need to rely more on thought than jump scares or monsters. The imagination does more harm in these cases than being told all the truths. The other problem is repetition. A zombie might be scary at first, but after you've killed 20 of them, they become a bother. You don't fear bothersome mundane things.


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm bored of body horror or decapitated corpses. Especially zombies.

Gimme some surreal horror. I wanna see stuff that's just plain "WTF" yet still manages to be scary.


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## RedFoxTwo (Jul 8, 2012)

Digitalpotato said:


> I wanna see stuff that's just plain "WTF" yet still manages to be scary.


Ever played _Alan Wake_?

Back on topic, I find body horror to always be more a case of fridge-horror. Gruesome stuff never phases me when I'm looking at it, but a day or two later the full extent of the digustingness suddenly dawns on me. This happens to me with Dead Space a lot.


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## Dokid (Jul 9, 2012)

well Amnesia and Penumbra are two games that are excellent horror games. Well at least the second half of Penumbra. 

Also the Amnesia team is creating a new one called A Machine for Pigs.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 9, 2012)

Unsilenced said:


> A gory, mutant clawed monster won't scare me in Dead Space because I've seen those particular monsters a thousand times before and, since the game knows that I won't be scared by a simple monster, it's being fired out of a cannon. A gory, mutant clawed monster an Amnesia however makes me run and hide in a closet because holy shit, what the fuck was that?
> 
> 
> Horror games need to be confusing and unpredictable. Sequels need to be accessible and understandable.
> ...



Speaking of running and hiding in a closet, that reminds me of Silent Hill 2 where you first run into pyramid head in the apartment building. That scene made me shit enough bricks to build a small Colosseum.

 Also, I'm surprised silent hill hasn't been mentioned yet. It's easily my favorite horror series (even though it's gone to crap with the last few games), but the first three embodied what nightmares are made of. Akira Yamaoka's sound score for 1, 2, and 3 were all perfectly fitting and fantastic. I genuinely felt tense and anxious nearly the whole way through each of the games. I can't really think of any horror games that managed to pull off making me feel that unnerved through atmosphere alone; though of course many of the enemies in those games creeped me hell out. 

It's a shame though really, they don't make em' like they used to.


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## Aquin (Jul 10, 2012)

By far the best horror series i ever played was Fatal Frame. Great story and long lasting gameplay. Plus FF2 was creepy with the girl in the closet. I never got into RE except for the movies.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jul 10, 2012)

RedFoxTwo said:


> Ever played _Alan Wake_?


What was so WTF about it?
It was just filled with shadowy men.


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## FrostHusky81 (Jul 10, 2012)

People can think whatever they want, I think the RE series is great especially the old ones. For you RE players out there did you ever become tense in those moments while you walk down the dark room or hallway knowing something is going to jump out at you?


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 10, 2012)

FrostHusky81 said:


> People can think whatever they want, I think the RE series is great especially the old ones. For you RE players out there did you ever become tense in those moments while you walk down the dark room or hallway knowing something is going to jump out at you?



No.

Knowing that something is going to jump out at you is not scary, that's the surprise ruined.


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## lupinealchemist (Jul 22, 2012)

Toonami recommended Slender...  Recently played it...  I need a hug.


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 22, 2012)

You know, as for the scare jumps / screamers / startle horror? I'd love to see something like a game that can prove you can scare people with _anything_ as long as it's a jump scare. 

Forget showing a gross image and screaming...do something that makes you focus very hard then all of a sudden shows you a field of flowers and plays Brahms music really loud.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 22, 2012)

I want a game where the objective is to scare other players.


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## Zydrate Junkie (Jul 22, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I want a game where the objective is to scare other players.


That would be the ultimate trolling game.


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## Unsilenced (Jul 22, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I want a game where the objective is to scare other players.




As much as that seems like a cool idea, I can see it going badly. 


"GASP! A ghostly inscription is being scrawled upon that wall, written by an invisible hand! Upon closer inspection of the ghoulish handwriting, it reads..." 





*squint*




"...loldicks"


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 22, 2012)

Unsilenced said:


> As much as that seems like a cool idea, I can see it going badly.
> 
> 
> "GASP! A ghostly inscription is being scrawled upon that wall, written by an invisible hand! Upon closer inspection of the ghoulish handwriting, it reads..."
> ...



lolium :>

But yeah, too true. :C

Though if it was some kind of sim game where you have to scare the shit out of AI people and build and maintain a place alike to dungeon keeper or something... that _could_ work. It won't be a horror game, but it'd have a decent fun factor to it, possibly.

Also a game that had a related idea was Zombie Master, the HL2 mod. I never really got to play it, sadly. HOWEVER, there's Zombie Master 2 in the works, but IIRC it's also a HL2 mod. Which kinda sucks ass IMO. I dunno, I've just always thought of most source mods I've ever played always feeling very samey somehow, I don't know how to describe. There are a couple exceptions though.


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## Fernin (Jul 22, 2012)

There IS a game about effectively scaring the shit out of other players, it's called The Ship. X3


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## RedFoxTwo (Jul 22, 2012)

Gibby said:


> Though if it was some kind of sim game where you have to scare the shit out of AI people and build and maintain a place alike to dungeon keeper or something... that _could_ work.


Your wish is my command.


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## Conn1496 (Jul 23, 2012)

Y'know. The last scary game I played was Condemned (the first one). I shat bricks for a full week. Though, that one bit with the crows blasting through the window and splattering against the floor was more funny than scary.


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