# Sound card recommendations?



## MEDS (Jul 7, 2016)

I'm an audiophile and have some great HiFi hardware. I'm kinda looking to get into high fidelity production. So I'm looking for a PCI addon that with good preamps and software integration. The alternative is to get a firewire audio interface like a saffire pro rack.. Y'all have any suggestions or opinions. Really, my number one priority is audio quality.


----------



## Blu-wolf (Jul 7, 2016)

I like my quality audio too and good headphones, but I'm not into production, so I can't personally help you there.  You probably stand a better chance of getting information/help from the head-fi.org forums.   Lot of snake oil thrown around that place, so your mileage may vary on the advice given.

www.head-fi.org: Computer Audio

Try a search and see if anyone has asked something similar, you may not need to register/start a new thread.  Good luck!


----------



## MEDS (Jul 7, 2016)

Yeah, I'm asking something really specific. I haven't even googled stuff yet.


----------



## Blu-wolf (Jul 7, 2016)

PCI addon that with good preamps and software integration - Google Search

Just googled the phrase you shared...might be some stuff here that can help.  Outside of asking in specific super-hi-fi forums like head-fi, computer audiophile, or possibly the Steve Hoffman forums, you'll have to search this one out on your own.  I think you stand a better chance getting an answer in those places than furaffinity.


----------



## darien (Jul 8, 2016)

To be honest, if you've got a decent chipset (which even most cheap desktop motherboards now-a-days have given how much both realtek and simens chipsets saturate the market) you really have no need for a sound-card. PC Audio is still processed at 24 bit even if you have a 32-bit card, there is literally no benefit to a 32-bit sound card over a 24-bit card, and even if your source files are at 32-bit (and real-32-bit not padded 24-bit which I've seen and is dumb as hell) it's still likely to get dithered or truncated in software to 24-bit unless you're using some very uncommon application with 32-bit float native daw, even then you're extremely unlikely to hear much of a difference if any- If you have an AC97 or better integrated sound card you're already all set and you'll likely hear more of an improvement with a better pair of headphones than you could by purchasing an aftermarket sound card. The only time I would suggest getting a sound card is if your motherboard only has stereo out and you want multi-channel surround (a feature already already supported by mid and high end motherboards)

That all said, you may well hear a difference with something like a creative sound-blaster ZxR _*IF*_ you're already using something like 600ohm studio headphones. Though that has more to do with just how cheaply/poorly your motherboard may have been made. Be forewarned- creative has been known to have driver-issues from time to time, and if your motherboard is already on the cheap-end you may run into irq conflicts or other resource sharing issues on the pcie bus.

For the price of such a card you can easily upgrade to a much better motherboard- so it's still really not a sound investment, pardon the pun. If you must have the best of the best even if you won't likely notice much(if any) difference- and price isn't a factor-chances are you'll wind up going with Creative's SoundBlaster line, be it the Titanium, ZxR, or something else.


----------



## PlusThirtyOne (Jul 8, 2016)

if you really want the best audio you can get, get a nice USB external system you can keep out and AWAY from all the feedback and noise your computer makes. Cutting down on noise alone makes a big difference.
That said, i wouldn't spend more than $90 on it. Not worth it.


----------



## darien (Jul 8, 2016)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> if you really want the best audio you can get, get a nice USB external system you can keep out and AWAY from all the feedback and noise your computer makes. Cutting down on noise alone makes a big difference.
> That said, i wouldn't spend more than $90 on it. Not worth it.



I have to disagree. The USB bus (usually there's only one or two USB host controllers per system)  is often plagued with fair bit of noise (sometimes as a result of too much draw- which can be solved with a simple powered USB hub, though other times low quality hardware is to blame, be it the motherboard itself, or the other peripherals on the system), can't say I recommend that. It should also be noted that with a good headset or USB audio device (especially wireless headsets) that USB dongle is often the first part to fail. That's not to say that electronically separating the audio as much as possible from the system isn't a good idea, USB just isn't the way to go. Audio out ports or wifi/bluetooth (only if integrated or on the pci-bus) to a good receiver may well be a good option.


----------



## Somnium (Jul 8, 2016)

get a beginner schiit stack, it will be about $250 in the us. It's an external usb dac and headphones amp combo


----------



## Blu-wolf (Jul 8, 2016)

@darien  I respectfully disagree on some of the stuff said above.  USB audio is best thing I ever bought into.  I spent about $40 for a Muse Audio mini and I have no complaints or qualms over its quality through either my Sennheiser HD598 or Sony MDR 7506.  The itty bitty desk fan I keep by my computer makes more noise than any USB bus noise ever could.   I'm not THAT picky, and I couldn't hear 'bus noise' if I tried to.  My best years of hearing are behind me.


----------



## darien (Jul 8, 2016)

Blu-wolf said:


> The itty bitty desk fan I keep by my computer makes more noise than any USB bus noise ever could.


 unless your desk fan is fairly loud, you're absolutely wrong on that. But don't take my word on that.
This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this (for starters) should help make you aware that it is in fact- a thing. but hey, don't take my quicklinks for your only sources- I actively encourage you to do some google searching of your own,I'm sure you'll find plenty of evidence, complaints, products(some even made by the aforementioned schiit brand), and threads on various forums to back up my claims. If you're not experiencing this problem with your particular use-case that's great! it certainly doesn't affect everyone- but for an audiophile considering a hardware purchase, this IS something to take into consideration as a potential common problem they may face with a given type of device.


----------



## MEDS (Jul 8, 2016)

Thanks, y'all have some great ideas! I've got a little 24bit stereo DAC, yeah I decoupled it from my desktop power using an optical cable.

My mobo sound sucks, I'll leave it at that.

One of the reasons I'm looking into a soundcard is because windows audio routing sucks, there's just so much you can do with the stereo mix. The other reasons is really for a microphone, as I'm kinda interested in recording now. Do you think I'm going to have noise issues if I use a PCI sound card similar to the USB noise that was mentioned earlier? I could go off board with a firewire interface or something.


----------



## darien (Jul 8, 2016)

MEDS said:


> Thanks, y'all have some great ideas! I've got a little 24bit stereo DAC, yeah I decoupled it from my desktop power using an optical cable.
> 
> My mobo sound sucks, I'll leave it at that.
> 
> One of the reasons I'm looking into a soundcard is because windows audio routing sucks, there's just so much you can do with the stereo mix. The other reasons is really for a microphone, as I'm kinda interested in recording now. Do you think I'm going to have noise issues if I use a PCI sound card similar to the USB noise that was mentioned earlier? I could go off board with a firewire interface or something.



Ahh, fair enough. 
And no, you're very unlikely to run into a similar noise issue with an audio device running on the PCI bus as you might with a USB device.  As I previously mentioned, you may or may not run into resource conflicts or driver issues with Creative cards and for the most part those are easy fixes. either reinstalling the driver, changing driver versions or in the event of an IRQ conflict upon initial installation a quick change in your bios or device manager in windows. I personally cannot recommend a specific Audio PCI(e) card, and for that- audiophile forums will probably be your best bet. I can only tell you that creative has been the most common supplier of such cards ever since it's SoundBlaster cards back in the 90's. There are a few other manufacturers whom I have absolutely no experience with that may or may not be better.


----------



## Blu-wolf (Jul 8, 2016)

@darien - thank you for the links, some were interesting reads, but I don't hear these differences.  Ignorance is bliss in my case I guess.  Maybe someone with younger ears can hear these things.  I won't say they can't.  We'll agree to disagree on this one.


----------



## PlusThirtyOne (Jul 8, 2016)

darien said:


> I have to disagree.






My experience with DACs has been pretty good. Despite what Linus says, i used Creative Audigy software in conjunction with mine for the equalizers and tweaks. i had lots of interference with my onboard sound and a $120 Audigy2 didn't help. Bought a DAC and it fixed my noise problems.


----------



## MEDS (Jul 8, 2016)

So how's the creative software. Here are some of the things I'd like to do:

1: Capture audio from specific applications and relay them to recording inputs. ( This functionality might be limited by the application I'm using)

2: play and record from multiple channels.


----------



## zeroslash (Jul 9, 2016)

darien said:


> unless your desk fan is fairly loud, you're absolutely wrong on that. But don't take my word on that.
> This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this (for starters) should help make you aware that it is in fact- a thing. but hey, don't take my quicklinks for your only sources- I actively encourage you to do some google searching of your own,I'm sure you'll find plenty of evidence, complaints, products(some even made by the aforementioned schiit brand), and threads on various forums to back up my claims. If you're not experiencing this problem with your particular use-case that's great! it certainly doesn't affect everyone- but for an audiophile considering a hardware purchase, this IS something to take into consideration as a potential common problem they may face with a given type of device.


Are there mixers/audio interfaces that can connect via USB 3.0 but are powered by a power outlet or something?


----------



## MEDS (Jul 9, 2016)

There could be. That would certainly remove the noise you would normally get from you PC, but many high end devices use a firewire interface. USB is interrupt driven, which can can have latency issues and slightly inconsistent playback.


----------



## darien (Jul 15, 2016)

Blu-wolf said:


> @darien - thank you for the links, some were interesting reads, but I don't hear these differences.  Ignorance is bliss in my case I guess.  Maybe someone with younger ears can hear these things.  I won't say they can't.  We'll agree to disagree on this one.


It's okay if you disagree with me, I can't force you to be right.



zeroslash said:


> Are there mixers/audio interfaces that can connect via USB 3.0 but are powered by a power outlet or something?



I'm sure there are a number of externally powered audio devices that connect via USB- and I would still recommend avoiding them. USB is great for most things- with the exception of audio (and in some cases wifi adapters - though that's usually more SNR and Power related) with pretty much everything else the sometimes high Signal to Noise Ratio on the USB bus doesn't matter as much. While USB 3, 3.1, and type C are all faster than all versions Firewire, IEEE1394 interfaces for audio devices are usually a better option- as your FireWire controller is usually separate from the your USB host controller, and decidedly less saturated. Ideally you'd be using toslink/optical connections for external audio devices, or at least a stereo-phono jack. Quality cables do in fact matter if you're using the latter.


----------



## zeroslash (Jul 15, 2016)

darien said:


> It's okay if you disagree with me, I can't force you to be right.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are a number of externally powered audio devices that connect via USB- and I would still recommend avoiding them. USB is great for most things- with the exception of audio (and in some cases wifi adapters - though that's usually more SNR and Power related) with pretty much everything else the sometimes high Signal to Noise Ratio on the USB bus doesn't matter as much. While USB 3, 3.1, and type C are all faster than all versions Firewire, IEEE1394 interfaces for audio devices are usually a better option- as your FireWire controller is usually separate from the your USB host controller, and decidedly less saturated. Ideally you'd be using toslink/optical connections for external audio devices, or at least a stereo-phono jack. Quality cables do in fact matter if you're using the latter.


I have an XLR microphone that I use for vocal only. What would be your recommendation to properly connect the mic to my PC after the preamp?


----------



## darien (Jul 16, 2016)

zeroslash said:


> I have an XLR microphone that I use for vocal only. What would be your recommendation to properly connect the mic to my PC after the preamp?


You're likely going to want external audio interface, there are plenty with one (or more) XLR ports, gain adjustment and firewire or thunderbolt interfaces (Remember, USB can have a high SNR which can be avoided by using a different interface) if you're not having any problems with USB for audio then kudos- again it doesn't affect everyone- but it is certainly a fairly common issue. Sure you can use an XLR to USB cable, and if you're currently using one without issue- might as well stick with it, but there are plenty of other options if you've got uncontrollable noise. most external audio interfaces will allow you to adjust the gain- which is always nice to have. there are also interfaces with multiple XLR ports and mixing controls which can come in handy depending on your intended application. Typical price range is around $100-300 for a good one- as with anything you may be able to source one cheaper.


----------

