# Beginning suit maker looking for some advice c:



## CavySpirit (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm working on a suit of my sona, a cat. Here's a ref:
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-Reference-258259514
Here are pics of the fursuit progress I've currently made:
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-fursuit-head3-350223572
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-Fursuit-Head-350223372
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-Fursuit-Tail-350565840
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-Fursuit-Feetpaws3-351390014
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-Fursuit-Handpaw2-351382415

What I need advice on is about quality. I really enjoy fursuit making, this is my 2nd suit and a major improvement from my first. I would love to one day open up commissions but I want to be sure I'd produce good quality products. I don't use bad materials. I wouldn't use anything uncomfortable/unsafe. I use the same materials other people use such as foam, fun foam, fleece, felt, buckram, non-toxic paint and paint markers for the buckram eyes, sculpey for teeth and claws, etc.. and DF long pile faux fur.
But I know using the right supplies isn't always enough to produce a quality product. So I'm wondering, what should a good quality suit feel and look like? I mean right to the last detail. Should the seams feel obvious on something like the head after it's furred, exactly how much ventilation should there be? Stuff like that.

At some point after I practice some more, I will host a fursuit raffle for a free partial suit so that someone can judge what I make, but of course it doesn't hurt to get some advice/tips right now c: Right now the head, tail, feetpaws, and handpaws I linked above all fit wonderfully and hold together well. I'm having fun working on this project, more than I have in a very long time which means a lot to me and I'd love to continue but want to make sure I'm doing everything right.

I was considering for some time to just commission a pro artist like DHC for a partial to see how it looks and feels, but I know if I do that then I probably won't be able to afford to make more practice suits lol I plan to make: a canine digitigrade, Discord(mlp) digitigrade, digitigrade of another oc of mine, all for more practice c:

If you also could please give me some critiques on the images above(sorry for the low quality pics, my phone isn't the best with pictures^^; ) then that would be helpful and I would really appreciate it<3 And if you're curious, here's some WIP pics before anything was furred:
http://cavyspirit.deviantart.com/art/Blakat-Fursuit-WIP-DUMP1-347621845

Thanks for reading!


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## jorinda (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the eyes are the only thing that need some more work. They look kind of glued-on. They should be put a few millimetres deeper (into the eye-socket).


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## Deo (Jan 30, 2013)

A head should be as light possible, be finished on the inside, and have an eye for details on the outside. The shape of your head you posted is bulbous and lumpy. You need to work on streamlining the shapes, making the head more proportional to the wearer's body, and work on the anatomy and detailing. The foamies ringing the eyes are a big no no. Also the head shape looks nothing like a car, but something of a blob by wolf with a short snout, flat unshaped ears, and giant forehead. The foam work has serious issues and that's not a problem in the quality of your materials but a problem in the quality of your artistic ability. Good materials are a start, but unless used properly they can only do so much. Work on your sculpting, use more references, use critique and redlines, and listen to the advice of more experienced fursuit makers. Also get off of DA, there are a lot of children and idiots there and you'll get misleading tips and advice and asskissery instead of critique of any value.


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## Dokid (Jan 30, 2013)

you can also check out this thread  http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...ber-one-mistakes-of-first-time-fursuit-makers 

I really like the way the eyes are and it looks decent on the outside and the furring is alright. What bothers me though is how the foamwork isn't very smooth and it shows. Especially in the side view. I'm really surprised that you mentioned how you glued everything. I would be very iffy to wear a head that is all glued due to the fact that glue is really easy to come off while nice good sewing isn't. You should probably learn to sew if you want to ever sell fursuits.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Deo said:


> A head should be as light possible, be finished on the inside, and have an eye for details on the outside. The shape of your head you posted is bulbous and lumpy. You need to work on streamlining the shapes, making the head more proportional to the wearer's body, and work on the anatomy and detailing. The foamies ringing the eyes are a big no no. Also the head shape looks nothing like a car, but something of a blob by wolf with a short snout, flat unshaped ears, and giant forehead. The foam work has serious issues and that's not a problem in the quality of your materials but a problem in the quality of your artistic ability. Good materials are a start, but unless used properly they can only do so much. Work on your sculpting, use more references, use critique and redlines, and listen to the advice of more experienced fursuit makers. Also get off of DA, there are a lot of children and idiots there and you'll get misleading tips and advice and asskissery instead of critique of any value.



Thanks for your critique, but I'm afraid I can't just.. leave DA  I get more activity on DA than FA. I like FA and all but everything I post is ignored, so it doesn't really make it look better than DA in that sense. I'm aware that DA is filled with stupid kids. I don't get critiques or help on there in the first place so I won't take anyone's critique seriously unless I know they're good.
As for the eyes, I don't really like them but it was really the only way I could find to make them without completely altering my character's eyes. The suit was for practice, mostly and on future suits the eyes won't look this way. I couldn't find any good tutorials to help me with the eyes of my character so I made something up.
I've looked at nearly every tutorial, tips, advice, etc.. out there on fursuit making, especially with the head and eyes and such. All I can say is I did my best and critiques in helping me improve are very much appreciated, so thank you.



jorinda said:


> I think the eyes are the only thing that need some more work. They look kind of glued-on. They should be put a few millimetres deeper (into the eye-socket).



My character's eyes are bit odd. I had noooo idea how to make them and couldn't find any tutorials on them so I just went with fun foam as support and 100% buckram. She doesn't have "whites" in her eyes so using plastic bowls like in some tutorials wouldn't have worked the same lol



Dokid said:


> you can also check out this thread  http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...ber-one-mistakes-of-first-time-fursuit-makers
> 
> I really like the way the eyes are and it looks decent on the outside and the furring is alright. What bothers me though is how the foamwork isn't very smooth and it shows. Especially in the side view. I'm really surprised that you mentioned how you glued everything. I would be very iffy to wear a head that is all glued due to the fact that glue is really easy to come off while nice good sewing isn't. You should probably learn to sew if you want to ever sell fursuits.



Yeah, this suit was mostly for practice so I didn't want to take tons of time sewing everything. On the next few suits I make I'll be sewing the fur onto the head, tail(if I use foam bases), and feetpaws.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

If anyone can let me know how my feetpaws, tail, and handpaws look that'd be nice too. I know the head sucks but what about those parts?

Thanks!

The next suit I'll make once I finish this will be a canine, so I will probably have an easier time practicing following tutorials since most people make canines in tutorials. If you have any suggestions for things I should really work on let me know!


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## Deo (Jan 30, 2013)

You give a lot of excuses about "oh my character looks like thisss".  Well, heads up but good character design is important in fursuit making.  As a fursuit maker you'll receive a lot of stupid characters that  you're going to have to streamline the details out of to make it a  feasible fursuit. And some character designs just don't translate well  into fursuits. Black scleras on a black colored fursuit just muddies up  the face and loses all clarity of the character. What looks decent on  paper doesn't always work in 3-D, you're going to have to learn that  somethings you like have to be sacrificed for a better design.

And I'll post some more in depth shit later on the worst of your troubles the foam work, so have this for now (and yes I know it uses a dog's paw in the anatomical illustration, but use it as a future reference and apply the basics to other species):


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Deo said:


> You give a lot of excuses about "oh my character looks like thisss".  Well, heads up but good character design is important in fursuit making.  As a fursuit maker you'll receive a lot of stupid characters that  you're going to have to streamline the details out of to make it a  feasible fursuit. And some character designs just don't translate well  into fursuits. Black scleras on a black colored fursuit just muddies up  the face and loses all clarity of the character. What looks decent on  paper doesn't always work in 3-D, you're going to have to learn that  somethings you like have to be sacrificed for a better design.
> 
> And I'll post some more in depth shit later on the worst of your troubles the foam work, so have this for now (and yes I know it uses a dog's paw in the anatomical illustration, but use it as a future reference and apply the basics to other species):



I actually changed the feetpaws, so that picture is inaccurate(the foaming I mean). But I know what you mean. I've looked at many tutorials and pictures of suits and they don't always go for that much realism. I'm going for a toony style. I'm no good at realism.


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## Fay V (Jan 30, 2013)

Fursuits work much like artwork. It is better to learn realistic anatomy and be able to apply that, then go toony. Toony style is just emphasizing that is already there in the realistic. If you don't know how to make a realistic looking foot, or the basic shapes involved, then making it toony is not going to help. This is particularly notable when you have a 3d object that has to go over another person. Not only do you need to know animal anatomy, you have to know human anatomy. you need to understand the underlying shapes. If you don't you end up with lumps, awkward shapes, and small problems, and with fursuits it's the little things that can completely make or break a suit. Having the shapes off makes it look poor quality.

That's why tutorials aren't really going to help you. It will get you started, you'll learn certain techniques, but if you really want to be a fursuit builder you need to take the time, the years, to practice and learn to make the right shapes. Learn how it goes on the foot and how to make the toes make the right shape, then from there you can pick how to emphasize aspects and make it toony. 

The biggest thing, if you want to be a builder, prepare to get a lot of criticism, honest and blunt. If you plan to make money, you need to have done all the research, we so sure in your craft that you can stand up to criticism with more than "it's my style." this is true of any profession. You have to defend being good enough to sell and in general that means ages of time making all the dumb mistakes.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Fay V said:


> Fursuits work much like artwork. It is better to learn realistic anatomy and be able to apply that, then go toony. Toony style is just emphasizing that is already there in the realistic. If you don't know how to make a realistic looking foot, or the basic shapes involved, then making it toony is not going to help. This is particularly notable when you have a 3d object that has to go over another person. Not only do you need to know animal anatomy, you have to know human anatomy. you need to understand the underlying shapes. If you don't you end up with lumps, awkward shapes, and small problems, and with fursuits it's the little things that can completely make or break a suit. Having the shapes off makes it look poor quality.
> 
> That's why tutorials aren't really going to help you. It will get you started, you'll learn certain techniques, but if you really want to be a fursuit builder you need to take the time, the years, to practice and learn to make the right shapes. Learn how it goes on the foot and how to make the toes make the right shape, then from there you can pick how to emphasize aspects and make it toony.
> 
> The biggest thing, if you want to be a builder, prepare to get a lot of criticism, honest and blunt. If you plan to make money, you need to have done all the research, we so sure in your craft that you can stand up to criticism with more than "it's my style." this is true of any profession. You have to defend being good enough to sell and in general that means ages of time making all the dumb mistakes.



I see. Realism, then toony. I've always seen realistic fursuits as harder to do though(especially for me). I can't even drawn in realism, let alone sculpt or design in 3D. I don't have airbrushing tools or anything and I know some of the tools for realism is a little more expensive, like resin supplies for things like claws and eyes. Iunno, just didn't seem like it would be a good start but if you say from experience that realism first helps then I guess I'll try it out.

I guess now my biggest issue is confidence. I know it's possible to improve but I have no idea if I can do it. I don't think I have any potential to be even a decent or okay suit maker so I think I'll back down and leave it to those who already are good at it.


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## Fay V (Jan 30, 2013)

CavySpirit said:


> I see. Realism, then toony. I've always seen realistic fursuits as harder to do though(especially for me). I can't even drawn in realism, let alone sculpt or design in 3D. I don't have airbrushing tools or anything and I know some of the tools for realism is a little more expensive, like resin supplies for things like claws and eyes. Iunno, just didn't seem like it would be a good start but if you say from experience that realism first helps then I guess I'll try it out.
> 
> I guess now my biggest issue is confidence. I know it's possible to improve but I have no idea if I can do it. I don't think I have any potential to be even a decent or okay suit maker so I think I'll back down and leave it to those who already are good at it.



You don't need to make a full on realistic suit, you do have to understand how to construct a realistic shape. You need to be able to make a head that looks like a cat, rather than simply a cat in your style. It's just something that comes with practice and mistakes. 

Don't take this as a "give up and go away" I'm saying anyone can do it with practice, it just takes a lot of time. Tutorials won't really help, it's a good start, but the best makers are just those that looked at an animal, understood the shape, then changed the shape to fit their own style. It takes a lot of learning and mistakes, but in the end you become one of those people that can be inventive and solve problems. 

You can do it, just learn the shapes and muscles of the face in humans and animals. You'll learn how to emphasize certain parts, what sort of things fur will cover, what materials work best for what you're doing. 

If you want to start something, it's best to start the hard way. I'm not saying go out and get resin and so on, just be sure you take the time to really sit down and figure out how a cat works. After all this, when you really get into it and those criticisms come you'll have the confidence because you can back yourself up. When someone goes "I don't like that paw" you can go "that's cool, I know what I'm doing" because you took the time to really learn.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Fay V said:


> You don't need to make a full on realistic suit, you do have to understand how to construct a realistic shape. You need to be able to make a head that looks like a cat, rather than simply a cat in your style. It's just something that comes with practice and mistakes.
> 
> Don't take this as a "give up and go away" I'm saying anyone can do it with practice, it just takes a lot of time. Tutorials won't really help, it's a good start, but the best makers are just those that looked at an animal, understood the shape, then changed the shape to fit their own style. It takes a lot of learning and mistakes, but in the end you become one of those people that can be inventive and solve problems.
> 
> ...



I see what you mean. I'll try for realism if I make another suit. Thanks for the tips and advice!


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## Deo (Jan 30, 2013)

CavySpirit said:


> I see. Realism, then toony. I've always seen realistic fursuits as harder to do though(especially for me). I can't even drawn in realism, let alone sculpt or design in 3D. I don't have airbrushing tools or anything and I know some of the tools for realism is a little more expensive, like resin supplies for things like claws and eyes. Iunno, just didn't seem like it would be a good start but if you say from experience that realism first helps then I guess I'll try it out.



'Realism' doesn,'t mean fancy airbrushing equipment or resin casting. It means looking and observing and studying real animals so that you understand the anatomy and are able to render it in your chosen medium. Starting at realism is starting at study, not the materials, but focus on process and end product. and you don't have to completely leave toony, but you do need to at least understand and learn proper anatomy before you can do anything artistically that doesn't look like lazy half assed shit.



> I guess now my biggest issue is confidence. I know it's possible to improve but I have no idea if I can do it. I don't think I have any potential to be even a decent or okay suit maker so I think I'll back down and leave it to those who already are good at it.


Boo fucking boo. Glad you found out fast that you didn't have the ambition, love, soul, and balls to be an artist. Being an artist takes dedication and drive, if you give up before you even attempt to try then I have no sympathy for you. Art is not for the faint of heart. but if you put your mopiness behind you and put forth the effort you will improve. So you can quit now and give up, or work hard and put in the effort, time, and study and potentially be great someday.


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## Springdragon (Jan 30, 2013)

Deo said it a bit harshly, but the idea is there. It might help to get some sketching clay so you can deal directly in 3D shapes. If you can make a great head out of clay, you can probably make one out of foam.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Deo said:


> 'Realism' doesn,'t mean fancy airbrushing equipment or resin casting. It means looking and observing and studying real animals so that you understand the anatomy and are able to render it in your chosen medium. Starting at realism is starting at study, not the materials, but focus on process and end product. and you don't have to completely leave toony, but you do need to at least understand and learn proper anatomy before you can do anything artistically that doesn't look like lazy half assed shit.
> 
> 
> Boo fucking boo. Glad you found out fast that you didn't have the ambition, love, soul, and balls to be an artist. Being an artist takes dedication and drive, if you give up before you even attempt to try then I have no sympathy for you. Art is not for the faint of heart. but if you put your mopiness behind you and put forth the effort you will improve. So you can quit now and give up, or work hard and put in the effort, time, and study and potentially be great someday.



I get it with the realism now.

And that was pretty harsh~ Art has been like.. the only thing that kept me going. Just cuz I don't have the skills to be a good suit maker doesn't mean you have to say I wouldn't make it as an artist in general. Besides, I'm a hobby artist, never intended to go pro or be great cuz it really doesn't happen to everyone no matter how hard they work. Art has horrible job security and it won't always give you a steady income, so I do it as a hobby and don't rely on it and only it as a lifelong goal for a career/job. Even if I have no intention of going pro, that doesn't mean I can't be a hobby artist~


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## Deo (Jan 30, 2013)

Art is not hugs and puppies. It's a hard, cut-throat, hugely challenging career with heavy competition and high levels of unemployment. So yes,if you don't dedicate your life to it you will never be a good artist but will linger at best in mediocre. And making art for other people should be considered 'pro', especially in the case of fur suits which are a few thousand dollars each. And further more I don't give a shit if you're a 'hobby artist' or a 'real artist'. Be good or make shit, it's your choice young Skywalker.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Deo said:


> Art is not hugs and puppies. It's a hard, cut-throat, hugely challenging career with heavy competition and high levels of unemployment. So yes,if you don't dedicate your life to it you will never be a good artist but will linger at best in mediocre. And making art for other people should be considered 'pro', especially in the case of fur suits which are a few thousand dollars each. And further more I don't give a shit if you're a 'hobby artist' or a 'real artist'. Be good or make shit, it's your choice young Skywalker.



Yes I know art isn't like that. But whether you're doing it professionally or as a hobby you can be an amazing artist. As for suits I mentioned above I'll leave them to those who actually know what they're doing already. I would practice them more but I don't know what'll be happening for me in the future and can't afford to continue making suits for practice if there may be a bad situation around the corner. I'll be moving soon and then again soon after that and there are other factors into play here, so it's not that I'm giving up. I'm just trying not to go broke for the sake of practicing something I enjoy. I'll do it on my own time if the situation will allow me to.


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## Deo (Jan 30, 2013)

Our definitions of 'amazing artist' are worlds apart. You are new, young, and don't have the experience/familiarity with art to know that what is publicly considered 'good art' is often piss poor in truly artistic circles.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Deo said:


> Our definitions of 'amazing artist' are worlds apart. You are new, young, and don't have the experience/familiarity with art to know that what is publicly considered 'good art' is often piss poor in truly artistic circles.



I've been drawing, looking at, and researching art since I was 2. Started getting active online art-wise when I was 11 and I'm almost 19 now :/ I'm not young or new when it comes to art. Just cuz I don't have the skills or anything like good artists do doesn't mean I can't see good art when it's there.


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## Springdragon (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh dear, this is about to turn into a fight, isn't it?

I think it's fine to be a hobby artist. So long as you show lots of examples, your customers know for what they are paying. Good suit makers charge more. If you want to charge just enough to cover the cost of materials, you don't have to be as good as a person who is making his or her living from art. At the same time, it's also very difficult to become a great artist without being a professional. If you have a full time job or if you are a student, you won't be able to practice nearly as much. I've learned much more in the past year than I have in the previous six because I finally got the chance to produce some art without outside pressure to spend as little time on it as possible.

Still, the best way to learn is from the inside out. Rules first, then stylization. All professional artists can draw realistically. Some choose not to, but objects still follow the basic laws of light and perspective, even if they are intentionally the wrong shape.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 30, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> Oh dear, this is about to turn into a fight, isn't it?
> 
> I think it's fine to be a hobby artist. So long as you show lots of examples, your customers know for what they are paying. Good suit makers charge more. If you want to charge just enough to cover the cost of materials, you don't have to be as good as a person who is making his or her living from art. At the same time, it's also very difficult to become a great artist without being a professional. If you have a full time job or if you are a student, you won't be able to practice nearly as much. I've learned much more in the past year than I have in the previous six because I finally got the chance to produce some art without outside pressure to spend as little time on it as possible.
> 
> Still, the best way to learn is from the inside out. Rules first, then stylization. All professional artists can draw realistically. Some choose not to, but objects still follow the basic laws of light and perspective, even if they are intentionally the wrong shape.



I have no intention of fighting, I don't like it^^; Sorry if it seemed that way.

And I see what you mean, but at the same time even if someone learns on their own as best they can they can still be just as good as professionals. I see many artists out there who don't have a career in art but they've learned from pros through tutorials and such on lighting, perspective, etc.. and they can do an excellent job on it. Sure, it's not perfect but doesn't mean they're low-quality artists or anything.


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## Springdragon (Jan 30, 2013)

It's possible, but rare. I have a friend who can paint beautiful fantasy landscapes. He specializes in human figures, forest scenery, space, and shiny metal. While he's on the same level as some people who do make their living from art, he's just not interested in art as a career. 

It's not a venndiagram of good and bad art. It's a bell curve with lower outliers (sp?) of people without basic skills and upper outliers of ...Rembrandt and Bernini or somesuch. Somewhere on the higher end, there's a point where you're good enough to make a living from art.

It also depends on what you want to do with your art. A cartoonist needs to know framing, storytelling, and perspective, but doesn't need to know perfect anatomy or light rules. Most do, but it's possible to tell the story without those things. A studio artist needs to most emphasize light rules and composition because the emotional impact is the most important thing in his or her work. However, the anatomy and perspective doesn't have to be exactly perfect, and can be altered a little to serve the feel of the piece. A medical illustrator doesn't need storytelling or emotion, but the image has to be 100% photo-realistic every single time because lives are literally depending on it.


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## Deo (Jan 30, 2013)

CavySpirit said:


> I've been drawing, looking at, and researching art since I was 2. Started getting active online art-wise when I was 11 and I'm almost 19 now :/ I'm not young or new when it comes to art. Just cuz I don't have the skills or anything like good artists do doesn't mean I can't see good art when it's there.


That's really funny, but you're talking like someone who doesn't really know art. You're talking like a child who thinks crayon doodles on the fridge qualify as meritous art research. I'd bet my teeth that you've never even heard of Le Benezit. And 19 is young and new, especially when it comes to art ya dumbass.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 31, 2013)

Deo said:


> That's really funny, but you're talking like someone who doesn't really know art. You're talking like a child who thinks crayon doodles on the fridge qualify as meritous art research. I'd bet my teeth that you've never even heard of Le Benezit. And 19 is young and new, especially when it comes to art ya dumbass.



Just because I'm not familiar with a specific art form which my post was originally about doesn't mean I don't know art in general. Don't go calling people names when you don't even know them~ It's disrespectful and you won't gain any respect that way, just makes you look bad :/ and sure, I don't know you, but still~ I didn't say I know everything about art. From the things you said, it sounds like you either have to be a perfect amazing artist or you suck. At first I was taking your advice and going to listen but now it's just insensitive and rude. I'm a nice person and hate fights, especially when people get on my case for something I didn't intend. If you really wanna think I'm a stupid ignorant artist go ahead. I know who I am and don't care what others think of me~

I posted this thread to get some simple critiques, not have someone call me a dumbass and critique me as an artist. I love FA and all but for the little activity and help I get on here it's leaving a bad impression. If this is what it means to do something you enjoy and ask for help from the one place that knows more about that art form only to get criticized as an artist and get called names for no good reason.. well, that just makes the site itself look bad.

Not going to judge it, I know I shouldn't judge one site because there's a few trolls or jerks out there but come on.. be a little more respectful.
There's no excuse for it either so don't bother defending yourself on that part because I won't bother with it~

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, it's just this isn't necessary. You can't get through to people or get a message to them by being rude. People won't see it as positive, only negative. If you had good intentions in the beginning then sorry that got ruined when you started your harsh criticism on me as an artist. No one is perfect, not even the pros :/

I guess your opinions and mindset on art and artists is just different than everyone else's. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but going as far to call someone names just.. gets annoying. I don't take people seriously beyond that point.

This thread isn't helping me anymore anyway, I won't post here again. Say what you like about me and believe what you like about me. Opinions are opinions but I honestly believe there's no true definition of good art or a good artist. People just follow their passion whether they succeed or not.

Well I'll be off. I've been hit with enough harsh criticism in my life and would rather avoid more of it :/ And I mean harsh as in unhelpful pointless name calling harsh. I just don't like fights, sorry.


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## BahrgeistSmile (Jan 31, 2013)

For better or for worse, depending on how thick-skinned you are, any creative industry involves getting beaten over the head with the critique stick repeatedly and having to smile all the way through the pummelling, be courteous, not make excuses, and, rather importantly, take what you've learned and do something productive with. 

 Every piece of artistic I've undertaken where a pro has been teaching, such as in college,  has involved work being bloodily vivisected in critique sessions for all to see. It does HURT to begin with...and then you end up completely fine with it. What makes all the work and the scrapping and dozens of re-drafts worth it is when you actually get someone whose work you really admire saying to you 'Hey, that's actually pretty awesome.' and you know that they mean it. It's worth more than all the hollow praise in the world. 

I'm hardly a great artist, I'd consider myself very much a novice, but having gone through the 'I just want to do cartoon stuff' phase myself I would strongly urge you to welcome critique, even if it feels harsh to you.  I look back on my outlook then and always think  'Oh God I was such an idiot, I needed such a kicking.'


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## CavySpirit (Jan 31, 2013)

BahrgeistSmile said:


> For better or for worse, depending on how thick-skinned you are, any creative industry involves getting beaten over the head with the critique stick repeatedly and having to smile all the way through the pummelling, be courteous, not make excuses, and, rather importantly, take what you've learned and do something productive with.
> 
> Every piece of artistic I've undertaken where a pro has been teaching, such as in college,  has involved work being bloodily vivisected in critique sessions for all to see. It does HURT to begin with...and then you end up completely fine with it. What makes all the work and the scrapping and dozens of re-drafts worth it is when you actually get someone whose work you really admire saying to you 'Hey, that's actually pretty awesome.' and you know that they mean it. It's worth more than all the hollow praise in the world.
> 
> I'm hardly a great artist, I'd consider myself very much a novice, but having gone through the 'I just want to do cartoon stuff' phase myself I would strongly urge you to welcome critique, even if it feels harsh to you.  I look back on my outlook then and always think  'Oh God I was such an idiot, I needed such a kicking.'



I never said I wasn't taking the advice, I will take it. I'm just not going to listen to anymore harsh bashing and judging on me as an artist or what I believe is good art :/ It's uncalled for.


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## Springdragon (Jan 31, 2013)

Normal societal rules dictate that before giving advice, one must first give a compliment. However, in the science and artisan communities, the person giving the critique is speaking as a master to the apprentice. It's perfectly acceptable to list a barrage of things that are wrong and how to fix them. I understand that it can be hard to get used to, but you aren't supposed to cry about it. Deo didn't start insulting you until said you wanted to run away. I also think she took it too far with the dumbass comment, but perhaps she's forgotten that in hobbyist circles, people aren't held to the same standard and professionals and it's okay to give up and try something else. 

It is perfectly okay to draw toony and never learn basic shapes if that is what pleases you, but you can't claim to be an amazing artist by doing it. Or rather, you can say it, but you'd be wrong. 

The great thing about harsh critique is that you can ask followup questions and actually get answers. The master doesn't squint at your work and say "Hm.. the muzzle looks strange." and leave you to figure out why by yourself. I hate that, because my response is usually, "Well yes! I know it's wrong but I don't know how to fix it! Say something helpful please!"

 He or she will tell you exactly what's wrong with it and how to correct it. (In your case, it's because the foaming isn't smooth, so you have a really dramatic stop and a large nose, which makes your cat character look rather like a dog. Cats and wolves have no stop. The forehead slopes gently into the muzzle. )

If you really want to improve, that's great. If you don't want to improve, perhaps not to ask for critique.

Edit: By the way, smoothing out the stop will also fix the problem with the eyes being flat, because they will no longer be on an exactly level plane with the  surface of the mask. The outer edge will be level, but the inner edge will be sunken  because the bridge of the nose is higher.

Edit2: And while we're doing this, a few other pointers. According to your reference: 

1) The eyelids need to be darker than the surrounding fur and less noticeable. 
2) The forehead is too small, so the expression is surprised rather than cute. Make the eyes less tall and the nose smaller. The general problem is that the eyes and nose are scaled to each other, but both are too large for the head. Your reference picture has a huge forehead and a much smaller face.

Combining those two, if you remove the eyelid completely, the rest of the eye that is currently visible, is about the right size. Scale down the muzzle to fit. 

3) The ears look too high. They're set correctly, but they give that impression because the edges are too thick and they aren't concave at all. Imagine a cone cut in half. That is approximately what your ears are shaped like. 

4) The head isn't wide enough. Your reference as a flat faced, football shaped head. Pad out the cheeks more. You can also use tufts of longer fur to emphasize the effect.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 31, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> Normal societal rules dictate that before giving advice, one must first give a compliment. However, in the science and artisan communities, the person giving the critique is speaking as a master to the apprentice. It's perfectly acceptable to list a barrage of things that are wrong and how to fix them. I understand that it can be hard to get used to, but you aren't supposed to cry about it. Deo didn't start insulting you until said you wanted to run away. I also think she took it too far with the dumbass comment, but perhaps she's forgotten that in hobbyist circles, people aren't held to the same standard and professionals and it's okay to give up and try something else.
> 
> It is perfectly okay to draw toony and never learn basic shapes if that is what pleases you, but you can't claim to be an amazing artist by doing it. Or rather, you can say it, but you'd be wrong.
> 
> ...



I never claimed to be an amazing artist, just wanted to get my point across that there can be amazing artists out there who never got professional training or anything.

And those critiques helped, so thanks for them. I will re-do the head and try to figure out something new for the eyes.


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## Deo (Jan 31, 2013)

CavySpirit said:


> Just because I'm not familiar with a specific art form which my post was originally about doesn't mean I don't know art in general. Don't go calling people names when you don't even know them~ It's disrespectful and you won't gain any respect that way, just makes you look bad :/


Respect from idiots is worthless.
Please, it's full of shit to say that you are so knowledgeable on art because you started when you were two years old. Only a fucking moron who doesn't actually have real experience or education in art would use something like to earn credibility. It's fine if you don't understand fine art, I don't give a fuck. But don't be pretentious about something if you don't know shit about it. I wouldn't try to tell people I'm knowledgeable in sailing just because I live next to lots of water, and just because you've held a pencil before and have eyes does not make you experienced or worldly in art. It's a mentality I see often in young, eager, moronic children; and while the excitement over art is admirable the excessive sense of accomplishment/knowledge is tedious to me.



CavySpirit said:


> and sure, I don't know you, but still~ I didn't say I know everything about art. From the things you said, it sounds like you either have to be a perfect amazing artist or you suck.


I'll solve that for you- I suck. I am one of the worst college educated medical/scientific illustrators you will ever find. 



CavySpirit said:


> At first I was taking your advice and going to listen but now it's just insensitive and rude.


Boo hoo. Your feelings were hurt and now all the advice I've given is somehow rendered useless and you should not listen to it because FEEEELINGS. Well sorry kiddo, but feelings mean shit in art. Unless you are one of those psychotic wizard-gods who can pull off abstract art on the basis of "_myyy feeeeelings_".



CavySpirit said:


> I'm a nice person and hate fights, especially when people get on my case for something I didn't intend. If you really wanna think I'm a stupid ignorant artist go ahead. I know who I am and don't care what others think of me~


SPECIULL SNOFLAKE



CavySpirit said:


> I posted this thread to get some simple critiques, not have someone call me a dumbass and critique me as an artist. I love FA and all but for the little activity and help I get on here it's leaving a bad impression. If this is what it means to do something you enjoy and ask for help from the one place that knows more about that art form only to get criticized as an artist and get called names for no good reason.. well, that just makes the site itself look bad.


If you judge a whole community on one interaction with one person then you need to not live near people. Because that sort of shit happens, it's called "human interaction". Happens in every city, community, and group. And hey, you can leave. Nobody's holding you here and the longer you stay the longer I have to beat the Stockholm syndrome into you until you love me for the abuse just as I loved my art professors.



CavySpirit said:


> Not going to judge it, I know I shouldn't judge one site because there's a few trolls or jerks out there but come on.. be a little more respectful.
> There's no excuse for it either so don't bother defending yourself on that part because I won't bother with it~


A.) I'm not a troll.
B.) I don't have to do shit.
C.) your "there's no excuse and you should feel guilty" act is not going to work on me



CavySpirit said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, it's just this isn't necessary. You can't get through to people or get a message to them by being rude. People won't see it as positive, only negative. If you had good intentions in the beginning then sorry that got ruined when you started your harsh criticism on me as an artist. No one is perfect, not even the pros :/


The thing is though that the real world is not going to hold your hand and gently lead you to bettering yourself. Life is bumpy, and often the best advice is painful to hear. In those moments you suck it up.



CavySpirit said:


> I guess your opinions and mindset on art and artists is just different than everyone else's. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but going as far to call someone names just.. gets annoying. I don't take people seriously beyond that point.


Not that different. Sorry that I did not blow sugar and cotton candy up your ass, but I'm trying to talk to you seriously and in a manner that occurs in the real world. You've lived in some molly coddled bubble, but I don't cater to bubbles.



CavySpirit said:


> This thread isn't helping me anymore anyway, I won't post here again. Say what you like about me and believe what you like about me. Opinions are opinions but I honestly believe there's no true definition of good art or a good artist. People just follow their passion whether they succeed or not.
> 
> Well I'll be off. I've been hit with enough harsh criticism in my life and would rather avoid more of it :/ And I mean harsh as in unhelpful pointless name calling harsh. I just don't like fights, sorry.



WAAAAAAH MUH FEELINGS AND WAAAAAAAH I'M LEAVING!
Jobs and college are going to be very difficult for you with a mindset like that.



----
I was going to do a redline of the head for a visual aid, but fuck that. I give my valuable time to those who don't waste it.


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## Ozriel (Jan 31, 2013)

I don't mind you guys being blunt with critique, but can we have some tact. You don't have to do it for the OP. Just do it for me who has to swing my "Axe of Infractions". I don't wanna swing it. 



CavySpirit said:


> I never claimed to be an amazing artist, just wanted to get my point across that there can be amazing artists out there who never got professional training or anything.



Even those who weren't "trained" by others in their art still had to do some research into what they were drawing making. Amazing artists still have to do research in what they are creating. There's no point, just some half-assed excuse not to study.

In the art world, everyone is not going to be like your friends and family when you ask "is it okay" or "how does it look". It's tough, and if you want to make something of yourself, then study and become better and learn fro your mistakes.


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## Artslave (Jan 31, 2013)

CavySpirit said:


> I never claimed to be an amazing artist, just wanted to get my point across that there can be amazing artists out there who never got professional training or anything.
> 
> And those critiques helped, so thanks for them. I will re-do the head and try to figure out something new for the eyes.



Calm down, you don't have to be an amazing artist. You asked for critique to improve, right? And regardless of her presentation, not only is Deo a great artsist herself, but she's 100% right about stuff you should change. You have to take advice, regardless of the form it comes in(as long as she isn't being overtly rude- as she spent 20 minutes or more of her time to help you out w/ redlines and suggestions I think she's just being blunt, because LOL THATS DEO <3). 

Anyways. That tail and your hands look really good. I'd love to see the hands turned inside out, because fur is such a forgiving medium so I can't really gauge your stitching and give you tips for that from here. The head and feet(which you changed) are the only things that need work. Let me open this sucker in a new browser window so I can look at it. BTW excuse shitty typing, I'm on a friends laptop and she has tiny midget fingers and I have monstrous meat-pies for hands. 

Okay, so for the head, the shape is okay for a cat, black photographs like shit so I imagine we can't see all the detail. As for the nose, I think the half and half idea is cute, but in this setting(an all black face) it doesn't work because you have no counterbalancing light to offset it. If you had a little white or gray marking somewhere on the middle to other side of his face it would be SUPER cute but as it is it is fairly jarring and distracts from the rest of the head.

The eyes.. I understand you were limited with materials(You can grab plastic bowls from any dollar tree btw, my target doesnt carry them which is what everyone and their mom swears by). You can also just say 'eff it' and try another method to make them, hell make something up. You might come up with a better way to do them. I personally perfer taxidermy eyes but obviously that's not what you're going for so I won't be much help for you in this endeavour, sorry! I would NOT use black foamies in that thickness, like around the whole eye is pretty gaudy looking, but the thickness above the eyes(While I think the thickness is good to prevent him from having super-high-on-crack eyeballs, if it were another material I think it would look much better, but it might be the eyes in general). 

The ears are okay. I think they come down too far into the cheeks, but I see what you were going for and that it was a stylistic choice. I would give them some 3d definition next time, instead of just flat, ear shaped pancakes(I see you do have depth for the membrane which is good, but a little curve goes a LONG way). 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6q2xzSyY31qk89tdo1_1280.jpg here, this guy made ears similar to yours(But with fur instead of fleece)
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/323/f/2/ozark_fox_by_latinvixen-d5lk7ev.jpg and this person made similar ears, but gave them 3-d depth by adding a curve

See what I mean? It's little stuf that really adds up to make stuff look really good. 

As for the facial shape/muzzle shape/etc, I see nothing wrong with it, in fact it's kind of cute. You'll have to take more detailed pictures if you want more detailed critique than that from me, though. I'm far too lazy to type up more than a small novella.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 31, 2013)

Artslave said:


> Calm down, you don't have to be an amazing artist. You asked for critique to improve, right? And regardless of her presentation, not only is Deo a great artsist herself, but she's 100% right about stuff you should change. You have to take advice, regardless of the form it comes in(as long as she isn't being overtly rude- as she spent 20 minutes or more of her time to help you out w/ redlines and suggestions I think she's just being blunt, because LOL THATS DEO <3).
> 
> Anyways. That tail and your hands look really good. I'd love to see the hands turned inside out, because fur is such a forgiving medium so I can't really gauge your stitching and give you tips for that from here. The head and feet(which you changed) are the only things that need work. Let me open this sucker in a new browser window so I can look at it. BTW excuse shitty typing, I'm on a friends laptop and she has tiny midget fingers and I have monstrous meat-pies for hands.
> 
> ...



Yes, I realize she was just meaning to critique and I appreciate the time she took for it. I don't disrespect her or anything, I'm just too sensitive >.< I'll admit I was sheltered with not-so-great parents so I'm not used to stuff like that :c Best I get used to it fast then.

I will have to get pics of the hands inside out, but I didn't do anything special, just stitched them on the lines for the pattern 2-times over(they're nice and strong, yay!). Then I gut the seam allowance shorter after pulling the fur out. Pulling fabric inside out after sewing is always a pain in the butt for me lol

Yeah my camera wasn't working so I had to resort to my phone camera which takes crappy pics. The nose I made based off how I always draw noses on animals so I thought I'd see how it'd look on the suit. Didn't translate well but I know that now for next time.

The eyes were very tricky for me^^; my character's eyes are weiiiird. I was even about to just make a random cat character(this was before furring) with normal eyes since I had nooo clue what to do for her eyes. I didn't want to use a thick plastic and paint it black for the "whites" of her eyes because then it wouldn't match the black in her iris. It's like this: The "whites" are black, her iris is black with bright red rim around it and her pupil is technically white.. Don't ask me why, I made her a long time ago when I was bored lol

I understand with the ears and next time will try to make more volume on them. I looked at Razzy Lee's video tutorials so I kinda based the way she made the ears on the head in the tutorial, which was flat like the ones I made. I did trim the fur in the inner ear so the longer fur would kiiiinda make it look better but next time I'll make them more curved inward.


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## CavySpirit (Jan 31, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> I don't mind you guys being blunt with critique, but can we have some tact. You don't have to do it for the OP. Just do it for me who has to swing my "Axe of Infractions". I don't wanna swing it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do realize non-pro artists who are amazing at what they do study as well, I just didn't mean on a professional level like big art colleges.
And I do understand, I hold back on asking family and friends for that reason^^; Thanks!


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## Artslave (Jan 31, 2013)

CavySpirit said:


> Yes, I realize she was just meaning to critique and I appreciate the time she took for it. I don't disrespect her or anything, I'm just too sensitive >.< I'll admit I was sheltered with not-so-great parents so I'm not used to stuff like that :c Best I get used to it fast then.
> 
> I will have to get pics of the hands inside out, but I didn't do anything special, just stitched them on the lines for the pattern 2-times over(they're nice and strong, yay!). Then I gut the seam allowance shorter after pulling the fur out. Pulling fabric inside out after sewing is always a pain in the butt for me lol
> 
> ...


cal
I think the best way is to step away for 5 mins, take a breather, get a coffee and decide if that person is helping more than hurting. I was never really sensitive so IDK how it feels but maybe that will help. I'm usually the aggressor in these situations so APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE <--- huge bitch Besides, it is easier to make friends when you don't get offended easily :3 SOCIAL SOMETHING ugh im hungry shit

I know how it goes, I take the worst pictures of everything all the time so it makes my stuff look 1/2 as good as it actually is. Black photographs so terribly. Did you straight stitch or loop stitch your handpaws? I'm assuming straight stitch because loop always looks like shit and it falls apart(Good for a basting stitch not so much for structural stitching). Tip for seam allowance: Masking tape the fur away from the backing THEN sew. When done, turn inside out, remove masking tape. NO SEAM PULLING HOLY CHRIST.

I think since you are just making stuff to learn for now this was a good attempt. It may have been easier for you to buy a premade nose to ensure it looked spot on and didnt have to worry about it. I know people are buying fursuit pieces left and right, I think it's a good trend. For now, focus on hunting down some plastic bowls OR perfecting a better method for eyes. And until you get some really nice looking eyes I would say focus on making regular white eyes w/ coloured irises and black pupils. Because its easier to gauge how well you've done because EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER does them that way. Not that being unique is bad, it's just being bland and run of the mill for your first few suits will give you better references you can look up and will ensure a faster slope of progression IMO. Anyways good luck!  For your 2nd head it looks fine! :3


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## Springdragon (Jan 31, 2013)

That reminds me of a question that I've been wanting to ask!

Which is better, a backstitch, straight stitch, or blanket stitch? I usually use a backstitch on long seams for clothing, but fur is such a loose fabric that it seems like a blanket stitch might be needed to keep the edges aligned because you can't really pull it tight.  

Either that, or I need stronger, thicker, thread. My sewing is usually neat and tiny, but with fur, if I pull too hard the backing will rip. I've consciously tried to use longer stitches to keep it from doing that, but it feels messy. 

Does everyone else usually use a straight stitch? If so, vertical or diagonal and slanted in which direction? Or maybe a doubled X would be better. I haven't had problems with tails or gloves coming apart, but I've also never made a high stress item like pants out of fur before.


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## CavySpirit (Feb 1, 2013)

Artslave said:


> cal
> I think the best way is to step away for 5 mins, take a breather, get a coffee and decide if that person is helping more than hurting. I was never really sensitive so IDK how it feels but maybe that will help. I'm usually the aggressor in these situations so APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE <--- huge bitch Besides, it is easier to make friends when you don't get offended easily :3 SOCIAL SOMETHING ugh im hungry shit
> 
> I know how it goes, I take the worst pictures of everything all the time so it makes my stuff look 1/2 as good as it actually is. Black photographs so terribly. Did you straight stitch or loop stitch your handpaws? I'm assuming straight stitch because loop always looks like shit and it falls apart(Good for a basting stitch not so much for structural stitching). Tip for seam allowance: Masking tape the fur away from the backing THEN sew. When done, turn inside out, remove masking tape. NO SEAM PULLING HOLY CHRIST.
> ...



I am guess it's straight stitch. I know how to sew but I never made myself familiar with the names of the different stitches. I just stick the needle through the pattern one way, make sure it comes out at the same spot on the pattern on the other side, then back through. Instead of just sewing the needle through paying attention to one side I make sure to stick it through on the same spot as the pattern on the other side so even if my pattern isn't aligned right halfway through it aligns itself X3 And yeah, pulling out the fur is a pain. I just use a come and pick it out real quick and that usually helps, then use a dog brush too. I literally just finished sewing the 2nd handpaw. I'll try to get pics up tomorrow.

And I did think about that. I think for my next practice suit it'll be a canine. Cats overall are a bit trickier for me since their muzzles are shorter and all. I think if I have a go at a canine first and buy an already-made nose I can practice a more realistic yet toony suit. From what I accomplished with my sona's suit and my first suit I know I can sew handpaws and tails just fine. It's the shaping of the head and feetpaws. I can fur fine, too though there is always room for improvement, even in my sewing.

I was planning to do a bodysuit for my sona but I think I will hold off on that so I can practice the more important parts. A bodysuit, so long as I have a good duct tape dummy pattern, shouldn't be too difficult for me to figure out unlike 3D sculpting X3 I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I will also do normal eyes until I get used to how eyes are made.

Aside from that I guess my other challenge is pawpads. I made my feetpaw and handpaw pads out of fleece that is lightly hot glued onto foam for shape and volume. This works fine but I don't know if that's a good method or not. I know I could hand-sew the fleece onto the paws directly, or onto the pattern that will be glued onto the feetpaws. I also know some people get pre-made paw pads just like they do jawsets, claws, and noses, and they glue them on. My only concern really, is hindering movement or abilities to do things with the handpaws. I mean, it's hard enough picking things up with those fluffy fingers but if the pads are too thick or solid, that might make it impossible to do anything with them. I know when your out in a fursuit you really don't need to pick many things up but you never know. It'd just be nice to have a little bit of an ability lol


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## Springdragon (Feb 1, 2013)

I've never used a storebought pattern before. I started sewing so I could mend my clothes, and from there it went to tailoring my clothes. (It's really hard to find non-teenagery clothes in my size. Took forever to find a tie that didn't hang over my belt.) From there it went to designing and making costumes. 

The problem with a straight stitch and running stitch is that if the thread snaps or the knot pulls through, the entire seam will come loose immediately. I usually use a backstitch because it holds better, which means I have to fix things less often. Also, it's really embarrassing if your jacket falls apart at work. 

I'm not sure whether that will still apply to fur, or if fur costumes have less stress because people tend to be careful when wearing them. ?? 

What about tight areas like handpaws? A straight stitch or back stitch requires a larger seam allowance than a blanket stitch, which would make the gloves tighter on the inside. Would the backstitch/straight stitch be more secure? Is it worth it?


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## CavySpirit (Feb 1, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> I've never used a storebought pattern before. I started sewing so I could mend my clothes, and from there it went to tailoring my clothes. (It's really hard to find non-teenagery clothes in my size. Took forever to find a tie that didn't hang over my belt.) From there it went to designing and making costumes.
> 
> The problem with a straight stitch and running stitch is that if the thread snaps or the knot pulls through, the entire seam will come loose immediately. I usually use a backstitch because it holds better, which means I have to fix things less often. Also, it's really embarrassing if your jacket falls apart at work.
> 
> ...



I don't know much about sewing but the seam allowance doesn't make my handpaws tight at all because I trim it once I finish sewing, which helps a lot X3
And yeah that is a downside to straight stitching, if one part of the seam breaks or snaps the rest will come lose, which is why I stitch in parts, like one finger at a time, then I double across it again. Time consuming but it makes it really strong and if it does break it'd be less to repair since one thread was used for only a small part instead of the entire thing.

And I know faux fur isn't a stretchy material like some fabric used in clothing, so when people make costume patterns with it they make it so it can fit just fine without needing to be tight or stretch to prevent it from breaking. So I think a straight stitch would be safe if your pattern isn't tight and as long as you don't plan to rough-house or dance in it. For my bodysuit I'm going to use the same method as the hand-paws, stitch in small parts and double across to ensure it'll be strong and also so if one seam rips it's not the entire suit that falls apart. But that's just what I do based off the little experience I have in sewing. I'm sure there's some other methods out there that can create a stronger stitch.
I also use "Dual Duty XP" from Joann Fabrics. It's nice and strong and not super thick or anything, so it's easy to sew with. There's a wonderful selection of colors, too.


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## Dokid (Feb 1, 2013)

Here's a wonderful tutorial on how to make "stretchy" faux fur. It's mostly for pieces like the arm sleeves and such. 

http://fursuit.livejournal.com/4065775.html


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## CavySpirit (Feb 1, 2013)

Dokid said:


> Here's a wonderful tutorial on how to make "stretchy" faux fur. It's mostly for pieces like the arm sleeves and such.
> 
> http://fursuit.livejournal.com/4065775.html



Oooh thanks for sharing! This is neat! I may have to try that out someday c:


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## Halt (Feb 1, 2013)

Im going to start mine this weekend wish me the best of luck!


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## Nordo Huskamute (Feb 2, 2013)

CavySpirit, I used Matrices method for the pawpads and it looks really good:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZlZeLgJ4Ng

I also use a blanket stitch on everything I handsew, mainly because it works and I know how to do it.


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## Deo (Feb 2, 2013)

I've been a massive dick and I'm sorry. Listen to Artslave, she knows better than I.


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## CavySpirit (Feb 4, 2013)

Deo said:


> I've been a massive dick and I'm sorry. Listen to Artslave, she knows better than I.



It's alright, I know you were just trying to help. I'm sorry too about getting all defensive and such^^;
I'll be listening to all the advice/tips given to me. For the next suit I make(it'll be a digitigrade fullsuit of a canine) I'll be sure to study up on some realism for it on the shapes for the head and feetpaws and legs. I'll probably also buy premade claws and a pre-made nose, maybe pads, too. DreamVision Creations has some nice pre-made parts c:


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