# Trolling



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2006)

_*[size=large]Troll[/size]*
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being (self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue. _

Fur Affinity is going to take a step to stop trolling on the forums as of this point forward. We are all for constructive criticism, helping to close faults or problems, but certain individuals have made it a point to do NOTHING but counter ideas and claims.

While we understand everybody has the right to an opinion, it is of our belief that professional critics do not have a place on these forums. You have the right to disagree, the right to an opinion, but certain individuals have made tiny lil' forum careers out of countering others for the sole purpose of harassment.

This will stop.

*To report trolling all you need to do it click the "report" button on a particular post, state your reason, and we will investigate it.* Abuse of the trolling feature will be handled accordingly. Do not be afraid to report, but make sure your reasons are valid.

If you receive a warning from an admin regarding particular behavior on the forums: follow it. It'll make the forum experience much more enjoyable, much less negative and bitter. Should you absolutely HAVE to have bitter, well, I highly suggest a cup of coffee. There's at least eight ounces worth of it for you.


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## whitedingo (Jul 14, 2006)

And I must say not before time ,the forums are an advitisement of the main site and if people come here first before deciding to join the main site and see a forum full of flames and comments attacking members thay my not join 
Freedom of speech is all well and good but if your in someone elses house you behave ,while your on this server your a guest .
Thank you dragoneer


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2006)

whitedingo said:
			
		

> And I must say not before time ,the forums are an advitisement of the main site and if people come here first before deciding to join the main site and see a forum full of flames and comments attacking members thay my not join
> Freedom of speech is all well and good but if your in someone elses house you behave ,while your on this server your a guest .
> Thank you dragoneer


We've been more than lenient towards certain usres in the past, but they have sort of... abused our generosity. Unfortunately, it has to stop.


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## emptyF (Jul 14, 2006)

i know you won't get carried away. . .right?


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2006)

emptyF said:
			
		

> i know you won't get carried away. . .right?


Right.


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## Jirris (Jul 14, 2006)

I TAKE EXTREME OFFENSE TO THIS, AND YOU SIR ARE A FANBOY OF BEING NICE.  YOUR HAT IS SILLY AS WELL.

I kid, I kid.  Glad you guys are laying down rules and concequences as pertaining to the activties of flagrant ego-masturbation at the cost of the enjoyment of others.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Jul 14, 2006)

But but but...  How can I live without my ego-masturbation... ;_;



I totally agree with this stance and really do hope that it gets the trolls we have out of the forum and deters new trolls from making homes under our bridges.


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## nobuyuki (Jul 14, 2006)

I wasn't aware there was a trolling problem on the forums, we'd better get right on that issue before it gets out of control


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## Evol (Jul 14, 2006)

Trolls?

... not in MY vagina.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2006)

Evol said:
			
		

> Trolls?
> 
> ... not in MY vagina.


Just be wary of beavers.


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## wut (Jul 14, 2006)

Evol said:
			
		

> Trolls?
> 
> ... not in MY vagina.



It's more likely than you think.


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## Evol (Jul 14, 2006)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/asbestos_thug/beaverotttor.jpg


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## nobuyuki (Jul 14, 2006)

http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=1901&pid=21550#pid21550


crossposted here at the request of Uncia is my personal list of valid and invalid reasons to report an alledged troll.


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## I_Own_Charles (Jul 15, 2006)

Are we still allowed to be sarcastic?


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## Graveyard Greg (Jul 15, 2006)

I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> Are we still allowed to be sarcastic?



There's a major difference between being sarcastic and trolling, but the Internet does make it difficult to see the difference. Maybe you should add sarcasm tags just to be on the safe side?


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## kitetsu (Jul 15, 2006)

Graveyard Greg said:
			
		

> I_Own_Charles said:
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Adding smileys are the only insurance for "succesful sarcasm get", i think. Otherwise it all heavily depends on each admins' sense of humor. Not that i think the ones here don't have any. >_>  <_< *gets shot*


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## Wolfblade (Jul 15, 2006)

Well, I was gonna try and offer examples of what might be 'playful' sarcasm versus insulting sarcasm, and couldn't think of any. So I went and checked the actual definition to see if that helped.

n.
   1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
   2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

n : witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own"--Johathan Swift

It didn't help. The actual definition doesn't leave much room for it other than letting people be openly insulting to each other.

Obviously nobody wants them to say 'no sarcasm,' but there's not many uses for it that aren't directly insulting people. And as far as sense of humor goes, it isn't really the moderator's sense of humor that's going to be the issue, but whether or not the person the sarcasm is directed at finds it funny or not. The mods are here to keep the peace and all, and cracking down on trolling makes it sound like they're going to be more concerned with the general mood of the forums. 

A lot of users avoid forums because its hard to be here without having to deal with some excessive hostility from time to time. So users who are just here for entertainment, and don't find fighting or being insulted very entertaining are going to give the forums a wide berth. If the admins are wanting to make the forums more accessible to the general userbase, then dialing back the sarcasm is probably going to be a part of that.

I dunno, I would just say to leave 'sarcasm' as a moderator's discretion issue. Just have a general rule of not directly insulting someone, and only deal with sarcasm when that is all its doing.

So a 'use at your own risk' attitude towards it might be best. If the person you're being sarcastic to doesn't care, then nobody should get slapped for it, but if you're unloading excessive sarcasm on someone who feels insulted by it, that's not cool either. If someone expresses that they don't appreciate the sarcasm, and you weren't really _trying_ to just be insulting, then you shouldn't have a problem refraining from sarcasm with that person in the future. You guys tend to know each other fairly well, and which of you don't mind the sarcasm. Now it's just a matter of being mindful of the people who don't appreciate it as much. ^_^


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## Whirlaxis (Jul 16, 2006)

the way i see the difference between a troll, an argument, and sarcasm is this

argument: you are completely and totally wrong in your thinking, AND HERE IS WHY.

trolling: you are completely and totally wrong in your thinking, SO STFU.

sarcasm (bad): jesus fucking christ, your a genius! you should get a medal for your thinking! GO KILL YOURSELF.

sarcasm (good): LOL, ya, i totally agree with your completely invalind point =P jk <3 <3


the last parts are were the real differences are, i generally dont usually use sarcasm unless its someone i know or someone who knows me pretty well, cause it can translate REALLY badly over the internet if whoevers reading has the state of mind to dislike you


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## Wolfblade (Jul 16, 2006)

Whirlaxis said:
			
		

> i generally dont usually use sarcasm unless its someone i know or someone who knows me pretty well,



Which is a good general rule to have. ^_^



			
				Whirlaxis said:
			
		

> cause it can translate REALLY badly over the internet if whoevers reading has the state of mind to dislike you



Which tends to more often be the case when two people are arguing. It's often hard to distinguish whether or not someone's issue is with your argument, or you personally. Tossing sarcasm into an honest discussion tends to tilt that needle more towards 'personal'. It can change 'the other guy's' position from just having a problem with your argument to having a problem with you, since you're coming off as having a problem with them.

So one side makes it personal, the other side gets personal too, the first guy says 'oh that was just sarcasm', the other guy could use the same excuse. But by this point, whatever discussion was being had has been derailed. It really just seems to make a bit more sense to ask people to keep the sarcasm to a minimum if they want to have an adult discussion.


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## uncia2000 (Jul 16, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Which tends to more often be the case when two people are arguing. It's often hard to distinguish whether or not someone's issue is with your argument, or you personally. Tossing sarcasm into an honest discussion tends to tilt that needle more towards 'personal'. It can change 'the other guy's' position from just having a problem with your argument to having a problem with you, since you're coming off as having a problem with them.


Agreed.
If trying to present a reply on what you think is a serious matter, it's _better_ to keep the focus on the "issues" rather than the "people".
Dragging people in on a personal basis (accidentally or otherwise) is asking for derailment of otherwise valid points.

Just a general observation, mind you.


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## nikuramon (Jul 16, 2006)

lmfao, trolling.

I think the main problem is people take the internet much too seriously, IMHO.
It's the internet, FFS.

Anyways, please listen to me. Not that it's really related to this topic.
I went to Furaffinity a while ago; you know, Furaffinity?
Well anyways there was an insane amount of drama there, and I couldn't get off.
Then, I looked at the banner hanging from the ceiling, and it had "trolling is forbidden" written on it.
Oh, the stupidity. Those idiots.
You, don't come to Furaffinity just because there are no trolls, fool.
It's only the internet, THE INTERNET for crying out loud.
There're even entire families here. Family of 4, all out for some Furaffinity, huh? How fucking nice.
"Alright, daddy's gonna look at the inflation porn." God I can't bear to watch.
You people, I'll give you some pirated furry porn if you just GTFO my internet.
Furaffinity should be a bloody place.
That tense atmosphere, where two guys on opposite sides of the internet can start a fight at any time,
The flame-or-be-flamed mentality, that's what's great about this place.
Women and children should screw off and stay home.
Anyways, I was about to start eating, and then the bastard beside me goes "extra-large, with extra spooge."
Who in the world orders extra spooge nowadays, you moron?
I want to ask him, "do you REALLY want to eat it with extra spooge?"
I want to interrogate him. I want to interrogate him for roughly an hour.
Are you sure you don't just want to try saying "extra spooge"?
Coming from a Furaffinity veteran such as myself, the latest trend among us vets is this, extra cute yiff.
That's right, extra cute yiff. This is the vet's way of fapping.
Extra cute yiff means more cute yiff than inflation. But on the other hand the price is a tad higher. This is the key.
And then, it's amazing. This is unbeatable.
However, if you search this then there is danger that you'll be marked by the mods from next time on; it's a double-edged sword.
I can't recommend it to amateurs.
What this all really means, though, is that you should just STFU and GTFO.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Jul 16, 2006)

nikuramon said:
			
		

> lmfao, trolling.
> 
> I think the main problem is people take the internet much too seriously, IMHO.
> It's the internet, FFS.
> ...



I have my adult filter up.


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## I_Own_Charles (Jul 17, 2006)

Referencing George Orwell's 1984 doesn't make you appear any smarter, FYI.


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## Wolfblade (Jul 17, 2006)

The "it's just the internet" thing goes both ways though..

When talking about someone feeling harassed, "its just the internet" means we're supposed to not care, and they should "grow a thicker skin."

It's just the internet, so they really shouldn't get so worked up over something as trivial as a troll.

But when talking about doing anything to try and make things a bit more pleasant in general, suddenly its not "just the internet." It's a civil rights battle, with such precious liberties as freedom of speech and right to dissent, and all sorts of other things getting brought up by, almost always first and foremost, the same people who so casually dismiss the concerns of others with "its just the internet."

It's a very simple concept. 

If you can't have fun if you have to play nice, your enjoyment of the site is compromised by rules that limit needlessly unfriendly behavior.

But if you can't have fun when people are being sarcastic, rude, or otherwise needlessly fighting and insulting each other, your enjoyment of the site is just as compromised.

"Its just the internet" is what trolls tend to tell the people upset by their trolling. Well, "its just the internet" also applies to the people upset that they're being told to stop upsetting people.


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## nikuramon (Jul 17, 2006)

*RE:  Trolling*



			
				I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> Referencing George Orwell's 1984 doesn't make you appear any smarter, FYI.


I never claimed it did.  I just find it an appropriate quote with regards to furaffinity.
If you'd prefer to get a more accurate idea of my intelligence, I suggest you chat with me on some messenger.


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## Wolfblade (Jul 17, 2006)

"Its just the internet" is what trolls tend to say when people are upset by their trolling. Well, "its just the internet" also applies to the people upset that they're being told to stop upsetting people. It goes both ways.

When talking about someone feeling harassed or insulted, "its just the internet" means we're supposed to not care, and they should "grow a thicker skin."

Peoples' feelings, however trivial _some_ people might consider them, are not "just the internet."

But when talking about doing anything to try and make things on the internet a bit more pleasant in general, suddenly its not "just the internet." It's a civil rights battle, with such precious liberties as freedom of speech and right to dissent, and all sorts of other things getting brought up by, almost always first and foremost, the same people who so casually dismiss the feelings of others with "its just the internet."

Whether or not you're allowed to instigate fighting on a forum, or have to try and keep things civil, THAT is "just the internet."

And comparing a privately funded and operated entertainment _service_ on the internet to an oppressive totalitarian World Order is really just funny.

This isn't '1984', it's just the Internet. :wink:


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Jul 17, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> This isn't '1984', it's just the Internet. :wink:



It's a series of tubes!  Get it right next time.


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## Hanazawa (Jul 17, 2006)

Stop clogging the internet tubes with your silly trolls! We need more racehorses, dammit!


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## Wolfblade (Jul 17, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Wolfblade said:
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Woops, my bad :wink:


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## cesarin (Jul 18, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> "Its just the internet" is what trolls tend to say when people are upset by their trolling. Well, "its just the internet" also applies to the people upset that they're being told to stop upsetting people. It goes both ways.
> 
> When talking about someone feeling harassed or insulted, "its just the internet" means we're supposed to not care, and they should "grow a thicker skin."
> 
> ...



why you shouldnt mess with the admins







and my favorite picture regarding internetz


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## blackdragoon (Jul 18, 2006)

lol those pics are hilarious!!!


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## cesarin (Jul 18, 2006)

blackdragoon said:
			
		

> lol those pics are hilarious!!!



or a chained one







and the secuence..


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## Wolfblade (Jul 18, 2006)

Occaisionally, Granny does just need a good solid Boot To the Head :3


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## KurtBatz (Jul 19, 2006)

Speaking of trolling...

Can someone ban the user 'Antaeus' please?

Reason? Click on his profile and check his posts.


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## Bokracroc (Jul 19, 2006)

What's cooler than Granny getting booted in the head?
Granny getting flykicked instead


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## nullenigma (Jul 19, 2006)

Welcome to the internet, settling arguments with rambling posts and pictures you didn't take.


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## Wolfblade (Jul 19, 2006)

nullenigma said:
			
		

> Welcome to the internet, settling arguments with rambling posts and pictures you didn't take.



lol.

That's awesome because you can't post it without having it apply to you too.

It takes a sense of humor to laugh at someone else. It takes a Good sense of humor to be able to laugh at yourself ^_^


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## nullenigma (Jul 19, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> nullenigma said:
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Yep, by making that post I admit to being a hypocrite, but at least I can have a good time with it! 

What's more ironic than posting a meme about posting memes? xD


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## wut (Jul 19, 2006)

Posting a meme about posting a meme about posting memes.


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## Suule (Jul 19, 2006)




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## nullenigma (Jul 19, 2006)




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## wut (Jul 19, 2006)

Infinite recursion owns the skies.


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## XeNoX (Jul 19, 2006)

Milhouse is not a meme !!!11

[size=small](unlike my lovely cracky chan)[/size]


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## WHPellic (Jul 20, 2006)

I had a friend in junior high who looked exactly like Milhouse.


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## Wolfblade (Jul 21, 2006)

WHPellic said:
			
		

> I had a friend in junior high who looked exactly like Milhouse.



Your poor, poor, blue-haired friend o.o


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## TehSean (Jul 31, 2006)

Summary:

Admins seem unbound by rules when dealing with trolls, suspected or confirmed.
--Ex: Willingness to compromise.
----The user seems expected to compromise. Why?
Admins seem not to confer with one another.
Admins seem to have deep bias.
Public guidelines are not up to date.

From my point of view, the state of FA allows admins to do whatever they please because the general users of FA haven't seen that kind of behavior. Being unaffected by it, they simply don't care.
Only a small group of people, from what I've seen, is upset. The admins can afford to alienate them because the group is special. They seem to exhibit anti-furry sentiment, so the General Users who actually do notice... end up supporting zero tollerance behavior.

--------
Ramble:

Only concern is.. How do admins function? They seem to be seperated from one another on most matters and left to themselves, from what I've seen, when "taking action to stop harrassment".

So, a lot of the time, bias comes into play and the route they take is: Muzzle, then wait for the ban to expire.  There's very little discussion or negotiation involved. There's very little reasoning.

It's not an actual problem because.. Quite frankly.. FA is large enough and the furry community is complacent enough, that most dissent and trouble can be stamped out, without considering repurcussions.. because there are no repurcussions.

Considering again, that the main 'problem' in FA are and should be repeatedly associated with Arcturus, so they can be painted villains.  Just by proxy. Even if the person hasn't done anything, if they are friends or acquaintances with that stigmatized group of people, will then be made suspect.

So yeah.  There are instances where such force should be used, but what could happen is, when people are ready to actually talk, the admins won't want to hear it. Happened to me certainly. Also, the admins seem to be immune to the rules you, Dragoneer, laid out for them in another sticky forum post.

I'd suggest updating those rules so we don't have any idealistic thoughts that the admins will always be fair.  Because.. Well.. They aren't.

Also, is IRC associated with FA? If not, then how come the website www.Furaffinity.net links directly to it? And if the forums aren't technically a part of FA, then why does the website www.Furaffinity.net link to it? (These questions come from me dealing with admins who claim that the forums and IRC room were not affiliated with FA.net)

So that's about it.

---

My supposed 'troll buddies' are banned and since I'm pretty sure I am associated with Arcturus and Nobuyuki, etc... I can't be labelled as inciting trolling can I? They can't reply.

 Is asking the admins how they behave and how they should behave against the rules? Is it, Dragoneer? I'll go ahead and screenshot this in case one of your more "proactive" admins bans me again.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 31, 2006)

TehSean said:
			
		

> Is asking the admins how they behave and how they should behave against the rules? Is it, Dragoneer? I'll go ahead and screenshot this in case one of your more "proactive" admins bans me again.


You have a lot of valid points and we have been addressing them with individual admins. Not only that, we are revising how we handle "high priority" issues and ban communication as and other issues as it is.

We do have some problems internally and we are working to correct them.

I'll post more later when I have time.


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## noitaroproc (Jul 31, 2006)

WRONG


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## uncia2000 (Jul 31, 2006)

noitaroproc said:
			
		

> WRONG


What was that in reply to? Certainly not the "best" of threads to casually drop a one-word, all-caps, apparently off-topic reply onto!

Feel free to delete that post if that was as pointless as it appears from over here.


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## noitaroproc (Jul 31, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> noitaroproc said:
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EVERYTHING


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## elementseven (Jul 31, 2006)

Oh those darn trolls, what will they be up to next?


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## I_Own_Charles (Aug 1, 2006)

THE ONLY 'TROLL' ALLOWED IS ME.

End of discussion.


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## Ethan (Aug 1, 2006)

Guys, get over yourselves.

Trolls live under bridges and eat billy goats.

They do not surf the web and start 'flame wars'.

Jesus.


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## TehSean (Aug 4, 2006)

Ok, well it has been a good few days.

Do you have a partial answer? At least an answer to the big question:  Are IRC and the Forums affiliated with www.furaffinity.net

After all, the admins I spoke with claimed that they were not and that because of that reason, were allowed to define the rules dynamically.  But dynamically isn't the right word.

Rephrasing:  They were allowed to define the rules by their whims.

And I just noticed this, but I see a hyperlink at the bottom of the page linking us to www.furaffinity.net

Logic says that they are related. I don't wanna just skip to this, but it sounds like it might sound 'cool' to say because it also appears to be true:

Why are the admins allowed to troll?  Doesn't it seem hypocritical to not follow the rules, violate them because they're in a position of authority, and still enforce the ones people violate?


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## cesarin (Aug 4, 2006)

TehSean said:
			
		

> Ok, well it has been a good few days.
> 
> Do you have a partial answer? At least an answer to the big question:  Are IRC and the Forums affiliated with www.furaffinity.net
> 
> ...



dont remind me of MDY and her bullshit on Y!G plz..


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