# Should children be allowed into the Furry Fandom?



## Bababooey (Jun 28, 2020)

I'm curious about what you people think. I know there are a lot of problems regarding predators and such. There's so much adult content in this fandom that I don't know how children can avoid it. My first experience with furries online were bad. I was 14 and both were trying to drag me into the sexual stuff. One catfished me into thinking they were the same age and gender that I was.

I'm concerned about safety. There are so many furry spaces that don't have a clear line between sfw and nsfw. There isn't a single furry I've asked about this that didn't say they were groomed/creeped on as a young teen.

So what do you think?

Edit: As much as it sounds like I think they shouldn't, I'm on the fence, really.


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## Punji (Jun 28, 2020)

The internet can be a dangerous place, there's no denying that. People can use the fandom for nefarious purposes, but they don't outweigh the good it can offer, in my opinion.


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## Dinocanid (Jun 28, 2020)

That's a horrible experience to have, but it's by no means universal. Asking if kids should be allowed in the furry fandom is like asking if kids be should be allowed to play video games imo. The community is not one or the other, there's room for both and it caters to both.

By saying the fandom should only be for adults, you're:
1. Ignoring the plethora childrens furry characters and content (yes, even ferals count. Warrior cats was a root cause yall)
2. Pushing the stereotype that being a furry is a sexual fetish, which it is not


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## Water Draco (Jun 28, 2020)

There will be children that will find aspects of the fandom appealing to them but may well not understand that the visually appealing original characters that we as adults create are not like there favorite cartoon characters. It remains  the responsibility of the parents/guardians to ensure that children engage in there hobbies and interests in a safe manner.

When it comes to the internet for anything children should always be supervised by a parent or guardian at all times. A child left to there own devices on the internet is the same as leaving a child to play in the middle of  a 6 lane freeway during rush hour.

Most meets and cons have age restrictions and those that do allow children usually require a parent or guardian to accompany them at all times and set limits on where they can go and at what times.
Then there are the venues which are typically adult environments where there is adult language and the consumption of alcohol. There may also be licensing restrictions for the venue and or the event itself. 

If I had children myself and they expressed an interest in the fandom I would be supportive but I would do everything that I could to ensure that they have an enjoyable safe supervised interaction. (While I quietly have a nervous breakdown in the background with the challenges parents have with trying to prepare there children with the life skills that they will need as adults)


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## LameFox (Jun 28, 2020)

"the furry fandom" in general doesn't really sound like something they can realistically be denied entry to. Personally as I remember being a minor and how prevalent it was to simply lie about our ages when needs be, I'm inclined to think it's better to prepare them for what they'll inevitably encounter on the internet than try in vain to keep them out of things where it's not legally necessary.


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (Jun 28, 2020)

I came into the fandom when I was 10 in 2012


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

I don't believe it is a good idea to have minors in a place where there is about 75/25 porn to not. Its so incredibly easy to just lie about your age, and get shown two dudes fucking in a fursuit. Its not that I don't believe in exposing minors to pornography before they are of age.....oh wait, maybe I do. Another thing I don't want is something ive seen too often, a group of people invite a group of their friends to a furry meet, and this 16 year old shows up, they had lied and said they were 21, and had slipped through the cracks. Some of these people have sent nudes, rped with erotically, etc. and not realized it. If it gets out, its on the adults, not the kids. If the furry fandom didn't have SO MUCH PORN associated with it, then sure, it would be okay, but at this point, its just a bunch of horny 12 year olds trying to get a taste of sex.


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## LameFox (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> I don't believe it is a good idea to have minors in a place where there is about 75/25 porn to not. Its so incredibly easy to just lie about your age, and get shown two dudes fucking in a fursuit.


Trouble is if you can't effectively keep them from accessing the 18+ part of a site, how do you keep them from accessing the whole thing?


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## Water Draco (Jun 28, 2020)

LameFox said:


> Trouble is if you can't effectively keep them from accessing the 18+ part of a site, how do you keep them from accessing the whole thing?



That's on the parents/guardians for allowing children on the internet without supervision.


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

Im mainly worried about the adults who get in legal trouble because they dont know that the kid is...well, a kid. I mean, nobody id checks every single roleplay.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 28, 2020)

Water Draco said:


> That's on the parents/guardians for allowing children on the internet without supervision.


I mean. We all say that. But have you ever thought about the logistics of that? We live in a digital world. Unless you are literally standing by your kid all day, you can't stop them. People have jobs. Kids have school. They have plenty of time away from their parents where they can break the rules.


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## _Ivory_ (Jun 28, 2020)

NO. JUST, NO.


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## TyraWadman (Jun 28, 2020)

Realistically I know there is no way to police this, and even if my baby bro were to come across this, I would trust him enough to know better than get obsessed with or go crazy with porn/fetishes here.
BUT
*I SURE AS HELL DON'T TRUST ANY OF THE OTHER KIDS*
JUST THE OTHER WEEK HE WAS TELLING ME HIS OTHER FRIEND SUCKS ON A PACIFIER AND HE ALREADY DOESNT GET MONITORED ENOUGH ONLINE SO I'm constantly worried he's a babyfur in the making or if he's just a kid that needs a few extra _years_ with his pacifier or that his parents are just dumb! He's 9-10 and he's always still playing fortnite at 11pm. When I hear his parents tell him to turn it off and take a break he objects, mic gets muted, and he ends up playing for the rest of the night. There are plenty of other reasons as to why I'd think this based on their 'larping' they do while playing fortnite. My bro doesn't know how it can be concerning, but I do. 

It doesn't help that there was already an incident where a couple of older kids (also furry) decided to manipulate a bunch of 9 year olds and tell them inappropriate things and start moaning into the mic. I was glad I caught him when I did. Whether or not the other kids keep in touch with him, I wouldn't know.

My _older _bro (by one year) is something I wouldn't even touch with a stick because I have seen some of the shit he saved onto the computer when we were young, so I can only imagine what _he's_ into.


Spoiler



One day I accidentally saved a word document without naming it. I clicked on the untitled file and it showed a picture of a gun on a single page. I should have just closed it, but noticed there were over 100 pages in that document. I just scroll down close to the end to see and ANIME FUTA PORN EVERYWHERE!!! (Not discriminating, just shocking when it's the first time you've ever seen it at age 12 or so).

There was also a time where I wanted to try something with moms tracing paper. I asked for the book and he got really defensive over it and refused to even let me open it to take one page. Later on it's discovered that he's traced over women in magazines but used his artistic mind to outline where the nipples and vag would be. Of course, I'm the 'only artist' in the house so I'm the first person they accuse. NOT the horny 13-14 yr old male that literally moans like a moose in his sleep.

These are some of the tamer things, but I'm not trying to make anyone nauseous.


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## Water Draco (Jun 28, 2020)

Parental controls to limit when a child has the opportunity to access online content have improved greatly. So switching off access when they can not be supervised can be achieved.


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## TyraWadman (Jun 28, 2020)

Water Draco said:


> Parental controls to limit when a child has the opportunity to access online content have improved greatly. So switching off access when they can not be supervised can be achieved.



If there's one thing I learned about watching my baby bro grow up, it's that no matter how hard you try and shelter/look out for them, there's always gonna be that one trashy family/set of kids in their grade that introduces them to it.
Cue a seven year old girl shouting 'smoke weed everyday !' like its cool.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 28, 2020)

Water Draco said:


> Parental controls to limit when a child has the opportunity to access online content have improved greatly. So switching off access when they can not be supervised can be achieved.


Someone doesn't understand the concept of having friends who are bad influences.



TyraWadman said:


> If there's one thing I learned about watching my baby bro grow up, it's that no matter how hard you try and shelter/look out for them, there's always gonna be that one trashy family/set of kids in their grade that introduces them to it.
> Cue a seven year old girl shouting 'smoke weed everyday !' like its cool.


Oh my god I just had flashbacks to when my sister was growing up. She turned into a monster because of her friends.


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## Water Draco (Jun 28, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Someone doesn't understand the concept of having friends who are bad influences.



They existed but then I saw through them and ditched them. An individual that tries to influence others to do wrong is causing harm and therefore not a friend.

Just because some parents/guardians may not provide the best example that others should give up on trying to do the best they can to prepare there children for the world.

With the fandom parents/guardians must have an informed understanding that it is an environment where adults interact and that not all situations will be suitable for participation of there children.

As for my interaction online unless I know who I am in contact with in person, I treat all conversations as if it is in a general public space.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jun 28, 2020)

Can't police every interaction and can't assume everyone's parents know what their kids are doing.

Officially, I'm wary of letting anyone below 18 into the fandom.  Unofficially?  I know there's very little indeed I can do to stop them.

"Don't tell them about it unless you're confronted with someone who knows it" is about the best I can phrase it.  Even then, though... there's only so much you can tell someone, and there are limits to that approach.


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## Tendo64 (Jun 28, 2020)

I feel like kids should be allowed in the fandom as long as they're thirteen or older if going on the internet with it beyond YouTube--but that's common practice for minors online in general.

But contrary to what a lot of people are saying, there are plenty of SFW furry spaces, the people here just don't use them and thus don't know about them. Chicken Smoothie, for one, is entirely PG-13 and has plenty of furries on there. they don't run into NSFW because NSFW isn't allowed. Art Fight is another example. Websites not centered around furry content also tend to be more tame but also can still be risky.

Now... sites centered around furry content, such as Fur Affinity? Not really tbh. NSFW content is unavoidable on the main site and I've had multiple unpleasant encounters. I honestly think the site should be 18+, though I also don't because the forums would likely follow suit and I'd be kicked. 

Honestly, any site that allows pornographic content should be 18+, really. once you allow it on your site, it will automatically become the main attraction, which is why I see at least one incorrectly filtered piece of art every time I visit FA's website.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 28, 2020)

My personal opinion: No, they can like anthro characters of course, but they should stay away from the degeneracy and the yiffing.


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## JustAlex1997 (Jun 28, 2020)

There ultimately isn't anything that can be done outside of themselves and whoever looks after them. There's no application you have to fill to join a fandom, so there'll always be kids who are into things with aspects that aren't appropriate for them. Maybe they shouldn't be here. However, I wouldn't want to see them chased away either. 

I was technically preyed on by someone in the _Sonic the Hedgehog _fandom when I was underage, so these things are unavoidable online. Kids should be made aware of these things and how to say no.


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## Rayd (Jun 28, 2020)

no.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

Dinocanid said:


> That's a horrible experience to have, but it's by no means universal. Asking if kids should be allowed in the furry fandom is like asking if kids be should be allowed to play video games imo. The community is not one or the other, there's room for both and it caters to both.
> 
> By saying the fandom should only be for adults, you're:
> 1. Ignoring the plethora childrens furry characters and content (yes, even ferals count. Warrior cats was a root cause yall)
> 2. Pushing the stereotype that being a furry is a sexual fetish, which it is not


I have the exact same opinion here. There's a TON of SFW stuff to do in the fandom, and I really don't like the idea of people saying "Because they *might* encounter adult stuff, age-gate the SFW stuff too!".
Because the fandom is plenty SFW too, due to all of the perfectly benign media starring anthro characters directed at children. Like Arthur or Star Fox or Animal Crossing or Spyro the Dragon. Minors aren't allowed to make a hobby around those kinds of media just because there are adults who do adult things in the same collective? I don't think it's really fair to stop them from doing the things that they're legally allowed to do.
And by saying that the fandom is 18+, it reinforces stereotypes displayed in that famous CSI episode. I actually quite love the NSFW side of the fandom, much more than the SFW side, but it does do our fandom a major disservice to say it's exclusively an adult thing for adults. I don't really mind the stereotypes all that much, since I don't care about others' opinions, but it's still not truthful to say that the fandom is manifestly 18+. I just don't want people falling prey to misinformation.
And I know that it's hard to police what kids do on the internet, but really, if you can't trust your kid to be responsible on the internet in the first place, don't give them access to Chrome. I know that we live in a digital world, but people really have to start treating the internet like it's the real world instead of some safer facsimile of it.
Anyway, if you're a parent reading this and you still don't want your kid to join the fandom until they move out, fine. You're the parent and it's your rules. But I don't like the idea of people within the fandom going "No, you can't join at all until you're 18!". It seems a little... Overreact-y. But, that's just my opinion. After all, I didn't join until I was 20 years old.


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

Just because some places are sfw, does not mean shit. The majority of places I've seen on discord, on furafinity, on reddit, etc, have been porn and fetishes galore. The argument of 'Its the parents duty' doesn't hold any water, because parents are getting lazier and lazier. Hell, I know some people who give their three year old their phone, just to shut them up. Its partly on the parents, but its also on the other furries to tell them that no, we wont suck your dick until you're at least of age, MR edgy 15 year old who owns a porn server. That's why every server I am in does age verification. We had a minor who was 14, and was sending nudes for a year before someone found out. That's called child pornography, and if someone would have taken advantage of that, all 46 of the other members of the server would have probably been charged due to one minor trying to get his rocks off. Im glad that more and more places are starting to crack down on this stuff, because its not fuckin legal. Otherwise, discord wouldn't be deleting accounts of people who are underaged. Im sick and tired of these dumbass kids coming up to me and asking to 'Erp? owo'. If yall wanna have places with minors, go right ahead. Take ALL of them. I don't want them anywhere around me.


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## Dinocanid (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> The argument of 'Its the parents duty' doesn't hold any water, because parents are getting lazier and lazier.


This is inaccurate; lazy parents have found ways to ignore their children since the dawn of time. Nothing's changed besides the technology they use to do so.

Parents should properly take care of their kids, that's true, and adults in the fandom should properly enforce that kids don't access nsfw content, that is also true. However, just because there are shitty people in the fandom doesn't mean that the whole fandom is shitty; in fact that's a hasty generalization in every meaning of said fallacy. Something can be fetishized but not be a fetish. To give you a list:

- Being LGBT is wrongly fetishized, it is not a fetish

- Some entertainment targeted at kids is fetishized, that is not their purpose (MLP and spyro porn is weird as hell, but it exists)

- Literally eating food is fetishized

You seem to be completely misunderstanding what allowing minors in the fandom actually means. It doesn't mean that you have to interact with minors if you don't want to, you're more than welcome to join and create adults-only spaces with the necessary vetting if you want to. In fact, you're encouraged to do so. 

See a minor doing something they shouldn't? Be strict, let them know, ban them from the server. They _are not_ commonly taught the true consequences for lying about their age to access NSFW roleplays/artwork/etc. Some kid joined a server I was in once saying that they did NSFW commissions. They were quickly told that could land someone in prison + the pedo list, and they were banned from the server. I'm not saying this just to you either, but everyone that thinks this is somehow not manageable. Take initiative, rather than throwing hands up and saying "Welp, being a furry is officially a kink. Children must be shielded from seeing any anthropomorphic media, it's too sexual. Sonic the hedgehog is banned."


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Just because some places are sfw, does not mean shit. The majority of places I've seen on discord, on furafinity, on reddit, etc, have been porn and fetishes galore. The argument of 'Its the parents duty' doesn't hold any water, because parents are getting lazier and lazier. Hell, I know some people who give their three year old their phone, just to shut them up. Its partly on the parents, but its also on the other furries to tell them that no, we wont suck your dick until you're at least of age, MR edgy 15 year old who owns a porn server. That's why every server I am in does age verification. We had a minor who was 14, and was sending nudes for a year before someone found out. That's called child pornography, and if someone would have taken advantage of that, all 46 of the other members of the server would have probably been charged due to one minor trying to get his rocks off. Im glad that more and more places are starting to crack down on this stuff, because its not fuckin legal. Otherwise, discord wouldn't be deleting accounts of people who are underaged. Im sick and tired of these dumbass kids coming up to me and asking to 'Erp? owo'. If yall wanna have places with minors, go right ahead. Take ALL of them. I don't want them anywhere around me.


I'm sorry, but the world doesn't revolve around YOU.
I can't stand minors either, but you don't see me going around demanding that this fandom bans everybody who's under 18.
And, yes, some parents are lazy. But others aren't. I was never allowed to get away with doing shady things on the internet when I was growing up! My mother was perfectly aware of how dangerous the internet is, and it's appalling that so many parents think that the internet is interactive television instead of a digital facsimile of the real world and all of its dangers.
You're getting dangerously close to being one of those people who say "Ban all adult content because parents are too lazy to actually be parents".


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

Im not gonna babysit their kids because they don't give three fucks about them. That's not my job.


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## DariusTheLoony (Jun 28, 2020)

I feel like there should be limits to it where one side should be for kids in the other side should be for adults because it seems like the more kids jump into it it seems like they are going into the wrong side of it every so often.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Im not gonna babysit their kids because they don't give three fucks about them. That's not my job.


Nobody's telling you to babysit minors. I don't even interact with anybody under 18. I'm taking umbrage with the fact that you want to gatekeep the fandom for reasons that are kinda irrational.
I mean, why not just ban everybody under 18 from using the internet, then, if this is the route you're going down? The arguments you're using can literally apply to the internet as a whole.


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

DariusTheLoony said:


> I feel like there should be limits to it where one side should be for kids in the other side should be for adults because it seems like the more kids jump into it it seems like they are going into the wrong side of it every so often.


Exactly this.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Exactly this.


But you were saying that minors should be banned from the fandom altogether.


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## Dinocanid (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Im not gonna babysit their kids because they don't give three fucks about them. That's not my job.


If you don't want to then that's fine, but you also have no right to complain that nobody is doing anything about it because you are also doing nothing about it. Just leave it to the people are actually are willing to handle the situation


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Nobody's telling you to babysit minors. I don't even interact with anybody under 18. I'm taking umbrage with the fact that you want to gatekeep the fandom for reasons that are kinda irrational.
> I mean, why not just ban everybody under 18 from using the internet, then, if this is the route you're going down? The arguments you're using can literally apply to the internet as a whole.


Do you have proof that you don't have any contact with anyone under 18? Can you definitively say that you haven't ERPed with anyone whos under the age. Do you age verify everyone whos ever talked to you? No, you haven't. Nobody does. That's the issue. If minors weren't in the fandom, there wouldn't be any child predation in that specific way. If minors were out of the fandom, we wouldn't have to constantly tell them to stop talking about how much they want to get fisted in sfw chat.


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## Dinocanid (Jun 28, 2020)

DariusTheLoony said:


> I feel like there should be limits to it where one side should be for kids in the other side should be for adults because it seems like the more kids jump into it it seems like they are going into the wrong side of it every so often.


That's the thing though, this already exists, unless you mean specifically make a website specifically for child furries in the same vein of abcmouse and restrict every art website with ID verification. That doesn't stop kids from being furries though, being a furry is just simply being a fan of anthropomorphic creatures. You physically cannot ban children from the fandom, it's impossible


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## DariusTheLoony (Jun 28, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> But you were saying that minors should be banned from the fandom altogether.



 I'm gonna say about it is that if a minor is trying to do anything 18 and up with an adult that knows better than all you need to do is try to talk to them but if they're just going to put you on their blocked list then all you can do is  give those words of encouragement and try and help them by telling them not to do some thing that they're probably not ready for.   Seriously it may not be our job to raise or take care of someone else's kids but it is always good to try and help the next generation even if you're never going to meet them or talk to them again at least try to give them  A heads up .


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## Limedragon27 (Jun 28, 2020)

Saying children shouldn't be allowed in the furry fandom because of the fandom's nature is like saying children shouldn't be allowed to be in the anime community because so many predators use anime profile pictures and lurk in its community((Which to be honest, I'd say the anime community has a bit bigger problem with pedophiles than the Furry community, given the popularity of loils, not that the Furry community has that problem too)). While the Furry fandom is notorious for it's focus on porn and sexual themes, there are SFW areas of the fandom. It should also be the job of parents to ensure their kids don't do bad stuff online, not an online community's. I might be a bit biased here though since I first joined when I was 16.


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

Im talking SPECIFICALLY minors engaging in the porn side. That shouldn't be allowed to happen. Sure, if you are 38, and you wanna talk to a bunch of 16 year olds, go right ahead. But if they start engaging in rp, and sexually talking to eachother, theres a damn problem. In my personal experience, its always been the minors trying to drag the adults into it, and the adults having to eventually call admins because the minors wont shut up about it. Its more to protect the adults from the kids who have no concept of what child porn is.


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## DariusTheLoony (Jun 28, 2020)

Dinocanid said:


> That's the thing though, this already exists, unless you mean specifically make a website specifically for child furries in the same vein of abcmouse and restrict every art website with ID verification. That doesn't stop kids from being furries though, being a furry is just simply being a fan of anthropomorphic creatures. You physically cannot ban children from the fandom, it's impossible


 Trust me when I say that there are three levels in my opinion of being a furry.

Level one -  The ones that love the fandom and love being creative in it.
Level two -  The ones that criticize while still being creative but are morally getting too into it but not over the edge.
Level three -  The people who think that they are actual animals or just make it into a fetish. 

 I see there are those individuals that love the fandom and then there are those individuals that just jump in to the fandom taking what someone else already worked on like artwork or a design or even a name just to try and let go of those urges that they have.  There are good fairies and then there are those bad ones.

 The reason why I say this is because I've been around the block too many times. 

 It all depends on what kind of mindset does the child have to become a fairy because I don't hold anyone against what they love doing but if it is going to become something negative and they're going to try to ruin it for everybody else then I would say that individuals should not be doing this.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Do you have proof that you don't have any contact with anyone under 18? Can you definitively say that you haven't ERPed with anyone whos under the age. Do you age verify everyone whos ever talked to you? No, you haven't. Nobody does. That's the issue. If minors weren't in the fandom, there wouldn't be any child predation in that specific way. If minors were out of the fandom, we wouldn't have to constantly tell them to stop talking about how much they want to get fisted in sfw chat.


I try my best. But, dang, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder.
And here's the thing. Did you know that even if we were to pass an official rule banning minors, they'd still attempt to get in? Plus, you'd be damaging the fandom's numbers by making it an exclusive club and reinforcing negative steretoypes.


AliceTalistar said:


> Im talking SPECIFICALLY minors engaging in the porn side. That shouldn't be allowed to happen. Sure, if you are 38, and you wanna talk to a bunch of 16 year olds, go right ahead. But if they start engaging in rp, and sexually talking to eachother, theres a damn problem. In my personal experience, its always been the minors trying to drag the adults into it, and the adults having to eventually call admins because the minors wont shut up about it. Its more to protect the adults from the kids who have no concept of what child porn is.


Uh, you were NEVER specific about that! Of course I don't want minors in NSFW spaces. But since you weren't specific, I assumed that you were talking about the SFW areas too.


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

If there was absolute proof of everybodys age, then yes, I would be more comfortable. But. Since minors have a habit of lying about age to get their rocks off, thats where Im uncomfortable.


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## Dinocanid (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Im talking SPECIFICALLY minors engaging in the porn side. That shouldn't be allowed to happen. Sure, if you are 38, and you wanna talk to a bunch of 16 year olds, go right ahead. But if they start engaging in rp, and sexually talking to eachother, theres a damn problem. In my personal experience, its always been the minors trying to drag the adults into it, and the adults having to eventually call admins because the minors wont shut up about it. Its more to protect the adults from the kids who have no concept of what child porn is.


It's already not allowed, legally and in regards to website policies. I don't know where you've been hanging out where it is allowed, but that doesn't sound like the place to be


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## AliceTalistar (Jun 28, 2020)

Uh, you were NEVER specific about that! Of course I don't want minors in NSFW spaces. But since you weren't specific, I assumed that you were talking about the SFW areas too.[/QUOTE]


Maybe I wasnt clear. I do apologize. I have been seeing the post as specifically allowing minors into places that have nsfw and sfw together.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Uh, you were NEVER specific about that! Of course I don't want minors in NSFW spaces. But since you weren't specific, I assumed that you were talking about the SFW areas too.




Maybe I wasnt clear. I do apologize. I have been seeing the post as specifically allowing minors into places that have nsfw and sfw together.[/QUOTE]
It's just that I haven't yet been in a server or any other place that doesn't block adult stuff for those who aren't old enough yet.
Well, FA isn't good at it, but I've run all-age Discord servers before that do have NSFW areas that are gated off, and we'd require them to show a driver's license in order to get access.


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## DariusTheLoony (Jun 28, 2020)

Limedragon27 said:


> Saying children shouldn't be allowed in the furry fandom because of the fandom's nature is like saying children shouldn't be allowed to be in the anime community because so many predators use anime profile pictures and lurk in its community((Which to be honest, I'd say the anime community has a bit bigger problem with pedophiles than the Furry community, given the popularity of loils, not that the Furry community has that problem too)). While the Furry fandom is notorious for it's focus on porn and sexual themes, there are SFW areas of the fandom. It should also be the job of parents to ensure their kids don't do bad stuff online, not an online community's. I might be a bit biased here though since I first joined when I was 16.


Trust me when I say that it's not that easy to try to keep a child away from adultery because they can go on Facebook and they can lie about their age or they can go on Twitter or they can go on Tumblr as it still doing it. Google plus may not be a thing anymore but trust and believe it's still happening and when you said that the anime community is more with having pedophiles than the furry community had me kind of off because I feel like they're even.  Trust me when I was on Google plus I realized what kind of individuals are out there and what kind of individuals that are literally axing for attention especially the children as well because I feel like there are  as much pedophiles as there are jail beaters. I can't believe I am even saying jail beaters here but yeah.  All I can say about it is that there definitely should be a limit to what age a child should be to be a furry I'm not seeing a individual that is 15 or 16 trying to be one I understand that but if they are younger than that, As adults should try to leave them on in the right places so they can talk to their own ages instead of trying to jump into like adult conversations or a adult group area.


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## KimberVaile (Jun 28, 2020)

No, not only because I hate the idea of the fandom becoming more of a daycare, but because there are legitimately dangerous people in the fandom that have preyed on kids. Sangie for instance, not even going into the whole MFF con crap. 
There is a lot of potential danger for underage people being in the fandom, so I am not too big on it.


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## DariusTheLoony (Jun 28, 2020)

KimberVaile said:


> No, not only because I hate the idea of the fandom becoming more of a daycare, but because there are legitimately dangerous people in the fandom that have preyed on kids. Sangie for instance, not even going into the whole MFF con crap.
> There is a lot of potential danger for underage people being in the fandom, so I am not too big on it.


I agree.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

KimberVaile said:


> No, not only because I hate the idea of the fandom becoming more of a daycare, but because there are legitimately dangerous people in the fandom that have preyed on kids. Sangie for instance, not even going into the whole MFF con crap.
> There is a lot of potential danger for underage people being in the fandom, so I am not too big on it.


This seems to be premised like we're deciding to let them in instead of deciding to kick them all out?


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## KimberVaile (Jun 28, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> This seems to be premised like we're deciding to let them in instead of deciding to kick them all out?


I am not suggesting anything be done, just that I prefer there not be children in the fandom. It is a suggestion rather than an ultimatum.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 28, 2020)

KimberVaile said:


> I am not suggesting anything be done, just that I prefer there not be children in the fandom. It is a suggestion rather than an ultimatum.


Ah.
I personally hate minors myself, but I do think they have a right to participate in the areas that they're legally allowed to.


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## KimberVaile (Jun 28, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Ah.
> I personally hate minors myself, but I do think they have a right to participate in the areas that they're legally allowed to.


I find there are too many dangers within the fandom to feel it is a wise idea to let them in, but that sort of moral responsibility would fall on their parents, not me.


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## Marius Merganser (Jun 28, 2020)

Fandom or not, I feel that if you have a social media account that posts NSFW content, or something like a Discord server that allows NSFW content, you should label it as such, state that you don't allow minors, and make a reasonable attempt to block minors if they are discovered as followers.  And of course such NSFW content must still conform to the platform's rules and the country's laws.  I believe that it is not ultimately the fandom's responsibility to cater its content for children.  Having those disclaimers is also in the best interest of the adults for their own liability.

At the same time, relying strictly on parental controls is insufficient to protect children from potentially harmful content.  In addition to keeping tabs on what their kids are up to on-line, parents need to talk with their children and teach them about the potential dangers of using the Internet and what they can expect to see when they use it.  Parents need to have "the sex talk" AND "the Internet talk" and more than once these days.

So should children be allowed?
Guardians should not allow them in without their supervision and adults should not allow them unless they are actively trying to keep a kid-friendly platform.


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## Xitheon (Jun 28, 2020)

I don't think kids should use social media at all. The internet is a crazy dangerous place and it may sound tyrannical of me but if I had kids, internet access would be strictly limited to research.

You get kids being targeted and basically forced to commit suicide over Facebook, perverts asking little girls to show naked photographs, vulnerable people being attacked and stalked at Kiwi Farms, etc. I've often been unwell and the internet is dangerous even for me, at 32 years old. Protect your kids, it's a dangerous world. No I'm not joking.


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## Filter (Jun 28, 2020)

I misread this as "Should chicken be allowed to enter the furry fandom?"



Although I have nothing against poultry, I think children should always be supervised by a parental unit or other guardian. As for the furry fandom itself, I wouldn't encourage them to join. Although I would encourage them to draw anthropomorphic animals whatnot, to use their imaginations and have fun with it, the fandom is a whole other animal. Being in the fandom, or doing official fandom activities, has never been required for liking animal characters. Truth be told, I'd probably give similar advice to adults.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 29, 2020)

Sure, just don't use their presence as an excuse to ruin the adults' fun.


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## hara-surya (Jun 29, 2020)

Yes.

Asterisk the size of a small moon (aka The Death Star): they should not even be remotely aware of the adult side of it until they're teenagers.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 29, 2020)

hara-surya said:


> Yes.
> 
> Asterisk the size of a small moon (aka The Death Star): they should not even be remotely aware of the adult side of it until they're teenagers.



What?


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## Troj (Jun 29, 2020)

Absolutely! They just need to receive the appropriate level of supervision and scaffolding for their developmental level, same as if they got into any other fandom or hobby.


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## hara-surya (Jun 29, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> What?



Did I stutter?

I have no problems with children being part of the Furry fandom, but the adult aspects of it are FUBAR on a good day.

Back in the day there was a site called Yerf that would have been perfect to point kids at and say, "Yes, it's perfectly fine to take this seriously." But I'm about 100 percent sure it's dead now and FurAffinity is functionally a porn site, even with SFW turned on.


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## Kinare (Jun 29, 2020)

Coming from the stance of having been a rebellious little shit that found ways to do what she wanted regardless of what the consequences were, "should" doesn't matter really. They will always find a way if they want to, and the more people say "no, ur not allowed young welp" the more it will entice them to try.

That said, I think social media in general is poison and I hate the fact that most kids I know have at least some social media presence, including my niece who is only 9 now. I forget what my brother said she uses on her phone, and I do know that she doesn't have her own Facebook or anything like that yet, but she still has easy access to whatever in the form of her smartphone.

For me, I wish the adult aspects of the fandom were kept to adult-only websites to help curb this a little bit. I hate the thought of if my niece or nephew were to stumble upon FA they would see some pretty nasty shit once in a while. Sure, it's possible kids get curious and go check out porn sites, but it's far less likely that they do that than if they were to join here and accidentally came across it because some asshats didn't tag their art properly. Of course, that's just a pipe dream that will never come to fruition because most adults have no issue with it, I'm just weird I guess.


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## Mambi (Jun 29, 2020)

Chompy said:


> I'm curious about what you people think. I know there are a lot of problems regarding predators and such. There's so much adult content in this fandom that I don't know how children can avoid it. My first experience with furries online was bad. I was 14 and both were trying to drag me into the sexual stuff. One catfished me into thinking the were the same age and gender that I was.
> 
> I'm concerned about safety. There are so many furry spaces that don't have a clear line between sfw and nsfw. There isn't a single furry I've asked about this that didn't say they were groomed/creeped on as a young teen.
> 
> ...




Of course. Like literally anything on the internet there are fun clean things, and dirty naughty things. Keep them away from the adult stuff and all's fine. 

I mean, come on. My Little Pony has porn. Pokemon has porn. Mail delivery has porn. Telletubbies has porn. literally EVERYTHING has porn. 
So if keeping kids away from adult stuff was the goal, you'd have to lock them in their rooms forever.


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## MaelstromEyre (Jun 29, 2020)

In the fandom?  Yes, why not?  

I was a child of the 80s, I had no idea that the "fandom" existed but I loved animal characters in stories and movies.  I wanted to be some sort of animal every Halloween, most of my toys were animal figures or plush.  Most of my drawings were of animals.  When I got older, my parents and brother warned me that kids my age would think I was "weird" and they'd laugh at me, because liking animals was "for kids" and I had to grow up.  My brother even embarrassed me on the school bus one day, telling everyone I still played with animal toys.  I totally retreated for many years after that. . .still bought some of those toys, but they were always hidden in my closet.  I'd heard about the furry fandom by the time I finished high school, but I'd also heard that it was a "sex thing" and I didn't want to get involved in that.

It wasn't until I joined Second Life in 2009 and found that you could "be" an animal there. . .and I started meeting other furries.  Some were sex-obsessed and generally obnoxious, but I met many more who were a lot of fun.  I got involved in a few medieval/fantasy RP groups, where the characters were anthro animals. . .and suddenly I found all the friends I missed out on in childhood.  

Should "kids" be in the fandom?  Well, yes, in the parts of the fandom that are appropriate for kids.  I mean, I'm not even a "kid" person but I see no reason not to let them enjoy it at their own level.  They can develop their own characters, they can build their creativity and imagination.

You know who shouldn't be in the fandom. . .people who make it unsafe for kids.  People who make it unsafe for anyone. . .the creepers, the predators, etc.


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## Zerzehn (Jun 29, 2020)

Considering my own views, they should and should even have spaces specially curated for them away from people who would seek to exploit them, such as predators or bad actors.


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## VeeStars (Jun 29, 2020)

The fandom has its bad sides, like all the other fandoms out there, but it has a REALLY good side as well. The fandom is a great place to express your creativity. It can also help to find friends, or people similar to them for kids that struggle with making friends. However, not every kid is ready to join the fandom. Some mature faster then others and can be a little more independent, while some take a little longer and should have more adult supervision. It honestly depends on the kid. If you were really really worried about your child seeing stuff they really shouldn't, then I'm sorry to say that the internet is a terrible place for that, considering all the adult things that can be rapidly found easily with a bit of google searching.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 29, 2020)

We can't _stop_ somebody being a furry really!

All we can do is make sure adult content is in controlled spaces where children can be denied access.


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## MaelstromEyre (Jun 29, 2020)

AliceTalistar said:


> Just because some places are sfw, does not mean shit. The majority of places I've seen on discord, on furafinity, on reddit, etc, have been porn and fetishes galore. The argument of 'Its the parents duty' doesn't hold any water, because parents are getting lazier and lazier. Hell, I know some people who give their three year old their phone, just to shut them up. Its partly on the parents, but its also on the other furries to tell them that no, we wont suck your dick until you're at least of age, MR edgy 15 year old who owns a porn server. That's why every server I am in does age verification. We had a minor who was 14, and was sending nudes for a year before someone found out. That's called child pornography, and if someone would have taken advantage of that, all 46 of the other members of the server would have probably been charged due to one minor trying to get his rocks off. Im glad that more and more places are starting to crack down on this stuff, because its not fuckin legal. Otherwise, discord wouldn't be deleting accounts of people who are underaged. Im sick and tired of these dumbass kids coming up to me and asking to 'Erp? owo'. If yall wanna have places with minors, go right ahead. Take ALL of them. I don't want them anywhere around me.



I agree with this.  Honestly, some parents are totally oblivious to what their kids are doing online.  They have no idea who their kid is talking to, I'm not sure if they think their kid is innocent or what. . .and of course, if the kid is getting into something they shouldn't, they're not going to tell their parents.

That's what the predators rely on. 




It IS the responsibility of people in the fandom to call it out when it happens.  Not just calling out the predators, but also keeping the "I'm mature for my age" kids and teens out of the areas they don't need to be.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 29, 2020)

Hmm. It depends. Probably not but then again, as a kid, I absolutely loved cartoons with anthro characters, and if I had internet, I'd have probably joined.


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## Troj (Jun 29, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> We can't _stop_ somebody being a furry really!
> 
> All we can do is make sure adult content is in controlled spaces where children can be denied access.



We can also put our foot down when we catch wind of people grooming or being otherwise creepy with minors, and be more willing to yeet predators and creeps from the fandom, even if their suit is cute or they do good art.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 29, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> We can't _stop_ somebody being a furry really!
> 
> All we can do is make sure adult content is in controlled spaces where children can be denied access.


Sorry to say this but that shit ain't happening unless there is a system in place to actually stop minors. A simple are you 18+ question doesn't work. However much I hate the idea, the only way to really stop minors from seeing the dirty side is to have an id verification system.


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## ben909 (Jun 29, 2020)

I am probably going to regret pitching in here, but as others have said, we don’t have the power to keep kids out of the “fandom”  the”fandom” does not have formal membership, and as far as i can tell its self identified interests, you can’t tell someone that they can’t  be part of a group like that(you can but its pointless), if kids go searching for furry stuff they will find it, and if they go searching for nsfw work, chances are they will find it, no amount of work on the website or a informal community can change that(internet providers might be able to, but thats a whole different world)

if “we” means a site like FA, then yes they can try and ban kids, but complete enforcement is impossible, and if they are somewhat effective, the other shady sites will show up had have the worst of it, filled with predators waiting for them, and filled with the small hidden amount of work designed to attract them

so you make the problem worse by trying, losing sfw users, and not makeing it harder for predators


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## MaelstromEyre (Jun 29, 2020)

Troj said:


> We can also put our foot down when we catch wind of people grooming or being otherwise creepy with minors, and be more willing to yeet predators and creeps from the fandom, even if their suit is cute or they do good art.



Yes, this.

There is no way to card kids at the door in this fandom.  There are far too many forums, chats, and other sites that kids have access to.

Should it be up to the parents? Yes, but many kids have little or no supervision online.  

Within the fandom, you have to pay attention to who you're talking to, especially if you touch on any NSFW conversation.  If the site owner isn't screening people for those areas, maybe that's not a site you want to be on.

Not everyone needs to be a babysitter.  But totally looking the other way if things are going wrong is one of the reasons there ARE problems with creepers and stalkers.

You can't stop kids from having some involvement in the fandom.  Just keep them out of the NSFW areas


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## Trndsttr (Jun 30, 2020)

As a pretty young person myself, I can say that some furry content seems very innocent and something a lot of kids enjoy. I just also know that there is some not so great content everywhere so I tend to not search for anything fury related in the internet except for like how to draw a certain animal or like color ideas. I just enjoy drawing a bunch of cats that are pretty colors and avoid anything remotely nsfw. I know that not every kid does this so it isn’t foolproof, but I think most kids in the fandom who know that stuff exists would probably (hopefully) stay away. Really really young kids in the fandom I don’t think they are on the internet as much as some older but still very young people are so I think it’s okay, we just need to not make the nsfw stuff like everywhere. Which it doesn’t seem to be, so that’s good


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## Troj (Jun 30, 2020)

We also need to create and foster family-friendly and kid-spaces spaces in the fandom as well. This would help to alleviate the problem of people who want a G-rated experience going into more PG-to-R-rated spaces and complaining when they encounter adult content or behavior.


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## Stray Cat Terry (Jun 30, 2020)

Thus we need good guides, we need more.

Maybe a group of vigilantes will be good too?


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## ben909 (Jun 30, 2020)

Stray Cat Terry said:


> Thus we need good guides, we need more.
> 
> Maybe a group of vigilantes will be good too?




Vigilantes are a horrible idea, we don’t need a massive people going on witch hunts and calling everyone out who disagrees with their view on the issue, you will make things worse on that path


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## Stray Cat Terry (Jun 30, 2020)

ben909 said:


> Vigilantes are a horrible idea, we don’t need a massive people going on witch hunts and calling everyone out who disagrees with their view on the issue, you will make things worse on that path



Oh sorry... I didn't mean hunters, but guides. The reason I called them vigilantes is that they have to seek any young furs and keep them from going off the tracks.

I know, it still has many cons, just a blink of idea. Not great.


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## ben909 (Jun 30, 2020)

Stray Cat Terry said:


> Thus we need good guides, we need more.
> 
> Maybe a group of vigilantes will be good too?





Stray Cat Terry said:


> Oh sorry... I didn't mean hunters, but guides. The reason I called them vigilantes is that they have to seek any young furs and keep them from going off the tracks.
> 
> I know, it still has many cons, just a blink of idea. Not great.




more people will be hunters then guides... and these "guides" carry a risk as well, as if someone is a true predator the could sneek into those spots... ... and it goes down into darkness from them(why they need background checks in schools), and i don't think we are up to that level of screening


guides as suggestions to follow, for kids and 'mostly-sfw' adults might be a good idea though


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## MaelstromEyre (Jul 4, 2020)

ben909 said:


> more people will be hunters then guides... and these "guides" carry a risk as well, as if someone is a true predator the could sneek into those spots... ... and it goes down into darkness from them(why they need background checks in schools), and i don't think we are up to that level of screening
> 
> 
> guides as suggestions to follow, for kids and 'mostly-sfw' adults might be a good idea though



More like mentors - people who can show new, young furries how to SAFELY get involved in the community, give them some of the web sites and resources, etc.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jul 4, 2020)

hara-surya said:


> Did I stutter?
> 
> I have no problems with children being part of the Furry fandom, but the adult aspects of it are FUBAR on a good day.
> 
> Back in the day there was a site called Yerf that would have been perfect to point kids at and say, "Yes, it's perfectly fine to take this seriously." But I'm about 100 percent sure it's dead now and FurAffinity is functionally a porn site, even with SFW turned on.



I'd keep my children off the internet until they turn 18, period.


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## Ruki-the-Zorua (Jul 4, 2020)

*Looks at my own age, smiling nervously* I'm sure children should be _fiine _here.


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## JIBBLY (Oct 13, 2020)

There's no reason than the traditional ones for children to not join the fandom. It has shaped into a more friendly concept than what it was before, especially furry conventions. They are family rated in general with private areas for adults. If there's things that children need to know is the fandom is not exempt from the dangers of the internet. From my experience and onlooking child furry fandom participants, adults are too quick to push children out and complain about them far too much even if the mistake they're accused of was on their behalf. The fandom should continue to be a universal aged community with sides that are explicitly SFW and NSFW for those who prefer it that way.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 14, 2020)

No.


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## Mythic (Oct 14, 2020)

I mean whether or not they /should/ be here they already are so we need to keep them safe. There is no reliable way to actually keep them out and to be honest furry in and of itself doesn't have to be sexual.

-----



Chompy said:


> I'm curious about what you people think. I know there are a lot of problems regarding predators and such. There's so much adult content in this fandom that I don't know how children can avoid it. My first experience with furries online was bad. I was 14 and both were trying to drag me into the sexual stuff. One catfished me into thinking the were the same age and gender that I was.
> 
> I'm concerned about safety. There are so many furry spaces that don't have a clear line between sfw and nsfw. There isn't a single furry I've asked about this that didn't say they were groomed/creeped on as a young teen.
> 
> ...




I'm going to post something here that I have read that I agree whole-heartedly with. We need to really start to crack down on people who regularly do this sort of thing. I feel like more than anything most furries just need to be educated on why doing this thing is bad, I don't think many really see what they are doing as a problem. The post:



> Let's start with the behavior of adults in fandom spaces. Something I've noticed on a pretty regular basis is adults have a pretty nasty habit of assuming that everyone around them is also an adult unless proven otherwise. A large part of furry culture is freedom of expression- many people in the fandom are undoing a lifetime of emotional repression, often expressing this in a sexual manner because they've been afforded that freedom. This is far from a bad thing on its own, but this also leads me into the second point.
> 
> Consent. Furries are _awful_ at and about it in every possible way. Sexual consent, emotional consent, physical contact, respect of boundaries, you name it and furries have violated it. I have not met a single person who's been in the fandom for more than a few months who has not had someone cross a boundary or lapse in consent on some front. People will come into your messages trying to engage in overly familiar roleplay with you, people will casually start talking about their sexual habits without establishing consent, even the more ""woke"" furries can and will push your boundaries if they're not satisfactory. Many furries have had their boundaries eroded away, had their consent violated regularly, and they feel like they have the right to do that to others, often without thinking about or realizing what they're doing.
> 
> And here we are at my third point, traumatized teens. Even this has a lot of segments to it, and hopefully I can cover them adequately. A lot of kids entering the fandom are already traumatized and isolated in some way, and are seeking community wherever they can find it. If they choose to stay, they _will_ be treated inappropriately, it's not a matter of if but _when_. Ask any kid who's been around furries, or anyone who's grown up around furries, and they'll tell you that people have tried to engage with them in extremely inappropriate ways. I lost count of all the times (as a minor) people tried to start a sexual RP with me, asked me about my kinks, tried to guide me into talking about nsfw topics with them, tried to get me to engage with nsfw art. An unfortunately common experience of furries I know is adults showing us porn to make us uncomfortable because it was_ so funny, _they we're just trolling u guyz ((. Then there's the people who would just talk about nsfw topics without ever thinking about it or ever checking your age because "omg you seemed so mature."


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## VeeStars (Oct 14, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I'd keep my children off the internet until they turn 18, period.


That seems like the wrong choice. The internet allows for so much. How is your child going to get school work done when I assume they will be using some sort of online platform to assign it? I have learned a few hobbies off the internet, like flight simming, game dev, writing, and so on.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 18, 2020)

Only the fat tasty ones who'll cook up good.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Only the fat tasty ones who'll cook up good.


cook me uwu


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

Parents should be making these decisions for their kids.
Computer, tv, and video games shouldn't be used as cheap babysitters because you're too lazy to keep tabs on what your child is doing.


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## sushy (Oct 18, 2020)

I actually found out about furry art when I was a teenager (12/13 or so). I loved it because it looked like all the cartoon animals in shows that I liked. I actually did not encounter that much NSFW stuff at that time. I did a few times, while looking just for Pokemon images. Personally I think they should be allowed into the fandom (maybe not too young though, so from age 11 or something, if they know how to browse internet well) but make sure that they don't see the NSFW stuff, which can be done by tagging stuff and parents keeping an eye out.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

sushy said:


> I actually found out about furry art when I was a teenager (12/13 or so). I loved it because it looked like all the cartoon animals in shows that I liked. I actually did not encounter that much NSFW stuff at that time. I did a few times, while looking just for Pokemon images. Personally I think they should be allowed into the fandom (maybe not too young though, so from age 11 or something, if they know how to browse internet well) but make sure that they don't see the NSFW stuff, which can be done by tagging stuff and parents keeping an eye out.


If you don't ever use FA and have safe search enabled on google you will never encounter any NSFW, which parents should be doing that


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## ConorHyena (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> If you don't ever use FA and have safe search enabled on google you will never encounter any NSFW, which parents should be doing that



this isn't exactly true, google safe search is only so good.

imo this is one of the 'i don't know and I don't care' topics for me. Aside from the obvious minors-should-not-be-in-adult-spaces measures that have to be taken at any time on the web, it's not like there's a policing agency that can ban minors from the furry fandom, and therefor the entire discussion kinda moots itself.


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## sushy (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> If you don't ever use FA and have safe search enabled on google you will never encounter any NSFW, which parents should be doing that



haha I don't even know if safe search existed when I started browsing the internet  But indeed, parents should make sure safe search is on.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> this isn't exactly true, google safe search is only so good.
> 
> imo this is one of the 'i don't know and I don't care' topics for me. Aside from the obvious minors-should-not-be-in-adult-spaces measures that have to be taken at any time on the web, it's not like there's a policing agency that can ban minors from the furry fandom, and therefor the entire discussion kinda moots itself.


You are right, there is no way to police the fandom. Any kid can lie about their age or whatever and bypass basically all that any site can do about that. That's why it should be up to the parents, not up to the entire fandom at large. Some kids are mature enough to use the internet/forums/etc, and if they are then they should totally be using it. Some kids really aren't ready for the internet and don't know how to be safe on it. Either way the parents should make sure they know what their children are up to online and provide more guidance/restriction if their kid needs it. There are many ways to help parents monitor their children, like putting up firewalls or other things that block their children from using certain websites.



sushy said:


> haha I don't even know if safe search existed when I started browsing the internet  But indeed, parents should make sure safe search is on.


I don't exactly know how it works, but it's probably some neural network type deal that looks for naughty things lol.


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## pastelbomber (Oct 18, 2020)

Personally, I feel there should be spaces for minor furries to be able to express their interest in the fandom in a safe and comfortable environment. I'd see it as age ratings on movies - If you're 12, you're only allowed to view content up to a 12 rating. If you're an adult, you should be free to view what you wish as long as it does no detriment.

Gate-keeping and saying 'this-is-not-for-children' (as stated by other members) perpetuates the wrongful presumption that the furry fandom is inherently sexual in nature. Furry is based on inclusion for whoever wishes to join it. I joined the fandom last year (aged 16), and something I would like to add is that in most cases, children are able to understand more than people think they do. Children, when explained in a manner that they can understand, understand limitations and boundaries. They may ask questions about it, but fundamentally, they are capable of that concept. 

In short, children should be protected when joining any community, and adult and older furries hold a duty to their younger peers in this fandom (whether they feel so obligated or not) to protect their younger furry counterparts. It shouldn't be up for debate wherein a child should be protected from sensitive content in ANY situation, this includes what content within their interests they're exposed to, furry, MCU, or Pokemon, or any hobby they have.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

pastelbomber said:


> Personally, I feel there should be spaces for minor furries to be able to express their interest in the fandom in a safe and comfortable environment. I'd see it as age ratings on movies - If you're 12, you're only allowed to view content up to a 12 rating. If you're an adult, you should be free to view what you wish as long as it does no detriment.
> 
> Gate-keeping and saying 'this-is-not-for-children' (as stated by other members) perpetuates the wrongful presumption that the furry fandom is inherently sexual in nature. Furry is based on inclusion for whoever wishes to join it. I joined the fandom last year (aged 16), and something I would like to add is that in most cases, children are able to understand more than people think they do. Children, when explained in a manner that they can understand, understand limitations and boundaries. They may ask questions about it, but fundamentally, they are capable of that concept.
> 
> In short, children should be protected when joining any community, and adult and older furries hold a duty to their younger peers in this fandom (whether they feel so obligated or not) to protect their younger furry counterparts. It shouldn't be up for debate wherein a child should be protected from sensitive content in ANY situation, this includes what content within their interests they're exposed to, furry, MCU, or Pokemon, or any hobby they have.


That'd be fantastic if adults weren't extremely prevalent in "child only" spaces.
It really comes down to the parents making sure their kids are safe.


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## pastelbomber (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> That'd be fantastic if adults weren't extremely prevalent in "child only" spaces.
> It really comes down to the parents making sure their kids are safe.


exactly.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> That'd be fantastic if adults weren't extremely prevalent in "child only" spaces.
> It really comes down to the parents making sure their kids are safe.


Child-only spaces isn't the solution. Far too easy for adults to lie about their age to lure minors in. And who has to moderate these spaces? More adults? How would we trust them? So on and so on. I'm pretty sure there was a social media platform/app that was for minors only or something and something bad happened on it so they shut it down.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Child-only spaces isn't the solution. Far too easy for adults to lie about their age to lure minors in. And who has to moderate these spaces? More adults? How would we trust them? So on and so on. I'm pretty sure there was a social media platform/app that was for minors only or something and something bad happened on it so they shut it down.


There are far, far more than one.
Check out Youtuber MamaMax if you wanna see how much crap goes down.
And that just scratches the surface.


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## pastelbomber (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Child-only spaces isn't the solution. Far too easy for adults to lie about their age to lure minors in. And who has to moderate these spaces? More adults? How would we trust them? So on and so on. I'm pretty sure there was a social media platform/app that was for minors only or something and something bad happened on it so they shut it down.


we could propose a code of conduct wherein adults are allowed into sfw spaces with T's and C's - here's a few I came up with:
- If someone is over 18, they are not allowed to DM a minor.
- Minors aren't allowed to DM adults, unless it is a staff.
- Moderation system that evaluates the content of each post (think like google's safesearch on images and language. but better.) 
- CEOP resources in the event of any kind of awfulness (online child grooming protection) and a faq detailing for kids of what to look out for if they feel unsafe.

etc etc. I'm sure this could be finessed further but this is off the top of my head.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> There are far, far more than one.
> Check out Youtuber MamaMax if you wanna see how much crap goes down.
> And that just scratches the surface.


I just searched up that channel and hoo boy.


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## pastelbomber (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> There are far, far more than one.
> Check out Youtuber MamaMax if you wanna see how much crap goes down.
> And that just scratches the surface.


oh yeah. didn't he do a whole expose and find paedophile rings on sites targeted at children? beginning to think this is going to be a _v e r y _complex thing to handle. goddammit. why can't people just not be creeps to kids, man?


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

pastelbomber said:


> oh yeah. didn't he do a whole expose and find paedophile rings on sites targeted at children? beginning to think this is going to be a _v e r y _complex thing to handle. goddammit. why can't people just not be creeps to kids, man?


Because people are fucked.
And yeah, he does a lot of videos about different places adults prey on children.

But yeah. No matter how many protections a place might have, shit still is going to go on. Pedos develop their own language and emoji sets that fly under the nose of the administration, if the admins arent also in on it.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

Pedo's are truly the lowest of the low. They use the weak and the naïve for their own demented pleasures. Disgusting. Truly disgusting.


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## pastelbomber (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Because people are fucked.
> And yeah, he does a lot of videos about different places adults prey on children.
> 
> But yeah. No matter how many protections a place might have, shit still is going to go on. Pedos develop their own language and emoji sets that fly under the nose of the administration, if the admins arent also in on it.


it's like that goddamn MAP thing, isn't it? secret codes and flags and agendas. I hate the fact that it's normalised nowadays to a tiny degree too.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

pastelbomber said:


> it's like that goddamn MAP thing, isn't it? secret codes and flags and agendas. I hate the fact that it's normalised nowadays to a tiny degree too.


MAPs are just pedo's who are lowkey about it. There are some social media platforms that let them roam free, which is really sickening.


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## Lucyfur (Oct 18, 2020)

Like who is anyone to say children shouldn’t be allowed to explore enjoy create etc anthros?
Thing is those of us who are adults should be able to set boundaries. Like yes porn will be found by those who search hard enough like children turning on the fuzzy reception of the playboy channel trying to glimpse a gander of a boob through the static, but we should still take steps of compartmentalizing and fixing any spill over into sfw spaces of nsfw content.

parents should within reason and respect to privacy also be communicating with and checking up on theyoung.

like we can make a long list but even with the danger it is always there no matter we just have to keep an eye out and an ear open.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Pedo's are truly the lowest of the low. They use the weak and the naïve for their own demented pleasures. Disgusting. Truly disgusting.


Doesn't help that the ones who struggle with it generally can't get help with it either.
You can have people who don't act on it mention it to a psychologist and the psych can just call the police.


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 18, 2020)

Spaces geared for different demographics are, generally, a good thing, and can coexist with spaces for mixed audiences. We just have to recognize that they’re not going to be perfect, and that not everyone will respect the boundaries set. 



pastelbomber said:


> In short, children should be protected when joining any community, and adult and older furries hold a duty to their younger peers in this fandom (whether they feel so obligated or not) to protect their younger furry counterparts. It shouldn't be up for debate wherein a child should be protected from sensitive content in ANY situation, this includes what content within their interests they're exposed to, furry, MCU, or Pokemon, or any hobby they have.


The idea that all adults are responsible for protecting the children they cross paths with is not without problems of its own. Obviously we are all responsible for our own behavior and should make sure that we’re not knowingly interacting with minors in an inappropriate way, but time spent engaging with furry content is many people’s “me” time. It’s not fair to expect them to go out of their way to guide younger members of fandom in the time they’d otherwise be using to relax and take care of themselves. I saw a thread about this kind of thing on Twitter a while back, but I don’t feel up to digging it back out.

On services like Twitter, specifically, you can write “18+” in your profile, and some minors will respect that, but not all. Is it really fair to expect someone to vet all their new followers and block anyone who is under 18? Or can we accept that raising other people’s children is not their damn job and say they’re doing enough if they just avoid interactions when it’s brought to their attention?


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## ConorHyena (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> MAPs are just pedo's who are lowkey about it. There are some social media platforms that let them roam free, which is really sickening.



There are people like that on here too though, as long as they don't do anything squiggly, removing them seems to be a problem.



quoting_mungo said:


> On services like Twitter, specifically, you can write “18+” in your profile, and some minors will respect that, but not all. Is it really fair to expect someone to vet all their new followers and block anyone who is under 18? Or can we accept that raising other people’s children is not their damn job and say they’re doing enough if they just avoid interactions when it’s brought to their attention?



In the end, outside asking someone how old they are there's very little you can actually do to diviniate their age, especially when they show up in NSFW spaces.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 18, 2020)

Personally I don’t think minors finding porn art is that big of a deal. I’d rather they found that than some disturbing BDSM satanic sadist porn. It’s actually the community surrounding the porn art that is more problematic, allowing creeps to hide in plain sight. Additionally minors are often more than willing to jump into creep-traps since they’re young, hormonal, and _dumb_. 



pastelbomber said:


> oh yeah. didn't he do a whole expose and find paedophile rings on sites targeted at children? beginning to think this is going to be a _v e r y _complex thing to handle. goddammit. why can't people just not be creeps to kids, man?



Because humans are fucked up. In many ways it’s not our fault. Evolution was really not kind to us in many ways.


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> In the end, outside asking someone how old they are there's very little you can actually do to diviniate their age, especially when they show up in NSFW spaces.


Absolutely; that’s part of my point. Second part being that even if Little Suzy writes on her profile that she’s only 13 (minimum for most social media because COPPA), it’s not fair to expect Carol the NSFW artist who has clearly marked her account as 18+ to go “Hmm, SuzyTheChipmunk started following me; I should check out her profile to make sure she’s not underage.” If and when Carol finds out she might want to block Suzy, but expecting her to go looking isn’t reasonable.


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## Lucyfur (Oct 18, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Personally I don’t think minors finding porn art is that big of a deal. I’d rather they found that than some disturbing BDSM satanic sadist porn.



Because you may not think it a big deal doesnt mean it is something we should really saturate or make carte blanche for minors to access as that does produce an environment that becomes more enabled for grooming.

Also why the call out against satanism?
What is is about them that you purposely add them to your little list that I guess you meant to sound extreme but is actually not all that extreme at all, like if youre going to go hard go with like amputation, drugged, mind broken by the Catholic Church with the pontiff providing prayer over the subjects body as they get reassembled with the limbs of Captain Planet Porn.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> disturbing BDSM satanic sadist porn


Hey uh... you got any examples that are quick and easy to access?
Asking for a friend


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## DominantSubdivision (Oct 18, 2020)

When i was round 16 i tried my hand at joining the community joining a few art groups on discord but each server got shut down after one of the mods or big members were found trying to get nudes or something from some of the younger members. Was never targeted myself but i had the foresight to dipped out and hold back from interacting with the community in any way until like last month.


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## Joeyyy (Oct 18, 2020)

This is a wicked tough question considering the artwork base and, well, a shit ton of us got into the fandom at like 13-16.


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## KD142000 (Oct 18, 2020)

The short answer? Yes.

But there's loads of complications here. The furry fandom is rooted in very sexual things and obviously that isn't suitable for anyone under the age of 18. You may look at that and say 'well, maybe kids shouldn't be allowed because of that?'. Nope, that's not what it means. And here's why.

There's a constant called change. It happens from time to time, whether we like it or not. And this fandom (and so many others) have changed. Now it's about a general liking for anthropomorphic characters and creating an identity for yourself or creating art or whatever you guys came here for. It's a mixture of different things.

If there are minors on a website and there isn't a space specifically for them or a place separate for the adult stuff, you have the responsibility to watch what you say and post. That's the trade-off. And quite frankly, I see it broken all too often. If you want to stay within this fandom, watch what you say and post in public spaces open to under 18's. Heck, watch what you say everywhere, cos some over 18s don't want to see or read it, either.

Basically, to be blunt, keep it in your pants and keep the NSFW stuff to private spaces or DMs. That's the best we can do, right now. Not only that, it's the right thing to do.

I check the ID of everybody who enters my server if they ask for access to the NSFW space and I take infractions very seriously. You could go to court if the minor presses charges (and to be honest, you should be punished for showing an under 18 person porn, that's abhorrent and disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself).

Minors should be allowed into the fandom...but it's members and regulations need to account for that. Also, no offence, but most anthro characters were designed for kids. Sorry 30-year old MLP fan...that's how marketing works. Doesn't mean you can't like anthros. It means that kids can, also. And you, as a responsible adult, must behave responsibly.

EDIT: There is more to it than just what I've put here, but regardless, I don't think we should shut minors out. It's always somebody's fault if a minor sees porn. Let's not shift the blame onto people's parents or search engines. If you are an adult, bloody well act like it and be responsible.


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## Draakc from State Farm (Oct 18, 2020)

We don't want the kiddies playing shadow the hedgehog by accident.


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## Joeyyy (Oct 18, 2020)

Draakc The Flying Lizard said:


> We don't want the kiddies playing shadow the hedgehog by accident.


yeah the raw sex-appeal of Shadow the Hedgehog really got to me as a kid.


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## Draakc from State Farm (Oct 18, 2020)

Joeyyy said:


> yeah the raw sex-appeal of Shadow the Hedgehog really got to me as a kid.


I was referring to the swearing. But that too.


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## ConorHyena (Oct 18, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> [...] allowing creeps to hide in plain sight. [...]



Leaving this uncommented.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Hey uh... you got any examples that are quick and easy to access?
> Asking for a friend



2kinky4me. No I don’t lol I made that up. 


LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> Because you may not think it a big deal doesnt mean it is something we should really saturate or make carte blanche for minors to access as that does produce an environment that becomes more enabled for grooming.
> 
> Also why the call out against satanism?
> What is is about them that you purposely add them to your little list that I guess you meant to sound extreme but is actually not all that extreme at all, like if youre going to go hard go with like amputation, drugged, mind broken by the Catholic Church with the pontiff providing prayer over the subjects body as they get reassembled with the limbs of Captain Planet Porn.



What are you smoking


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## SwiftDog (Oct 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Leaving this uncommented.



But I’m not hiding. Sick burn - not.


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## Lucyfur (Oct 18, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> 2kinky4me. No I don’t lol I made that up.
> 
> 
> What are you smoking


Nothing at this moment lol but yo like it’s just some questions and observations ya dig


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## Deleted member 134556 (Oct 18, 2020)

All in all, yes they should be allowed, but they should be very careful with who they hang out with obviously, and it helps if us mature adults make an effort to keep out people in the fandom who would take advantage of them


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## SwiftDog (Oct 18, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> Nothing at this moment lol but yo like it’s just some questions and observations ya dig



I can’t even tell what you’re trying to say usually, sorry. 


[Nexus] said:


> All in all, yes they should be allowed, but they should be very careful with who they hang out with obviously, and it helps if us mature adults make an effort to keep out people in the fandom who would take advantage of them


The fact that that is even a concern is what should worry people.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> All in all, yes they should be allowed, but they should be very careful with who they hang out with obviously, and it helps if us mature adults make an effort to keep out people in the fandom who would take advantage of them


Thing is, how does any parent know for sure who on the other side of the web is trustworthy?

This is like moms looking to ban shows from Cartoon Network because they were too lazy to curate what their kids were watching.


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## Deleted member 134556 (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Thing is, how does any parent know for sure who on the other side of the web is trustworthy?
> 
> This is like moms looking to ban shows from Cartoon Network because they were too lazy to curate what their kids were watching.


Fair point


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## SwiftDog (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Thing is, how does any parent know for sure who on the other side of the web is trustworthy?
> 
> This is like moms looking to ban shows from Cartoon Network because they were too lazy to curate what their kids were watching.



Cartoon Network is disturbing ngl


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## Draakc from State Farm (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Thing is, how does any parent know for sure who on the other side of the web is trustworthy?
> 
> This is like moms looking to ban shows from Cartoon Network because they were too lazy to curate what their kids were watching.


It's an even worse issue on YouTube


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

Draakc The Flying Lizard said:


> It's an even worse issue on YouTube


Yep.
MamaMax did an episode calling Youtube out


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Cartoon Network is disturbing ngl


Even so.
It isn't their fault people let their kids watch what they don't approve of.


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## Draakc from State Farm (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Even so.
> It isn't their fault people let their kids watch what they don't approve of.


I never understood why some parents get mad seeing thier children playing video games 
It's like why did you buy it for them in the first place?


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## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 18, 2020)

Draakc The Flying Lizard said:


> I never understood why some parents get mad seeing thier children playing video games
> It's like why did you buy it for them in the first place?


Because they're lazy and think there's no such thing as video games for adults.
Reminds me of a video where someone let their 5 year old relative play GTA V and left for a short while to come back and find the kid found the tiddy bar.
Not the kid's fault lol


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Because they're lazy and think there's no such thing as video games for adults.
> Reminds me of a video where someone let their 5 year old relative play GTA V and left for a short while to come back and find the kid found the tiddy bar.
> Not the kid's fault lol


tiddy bar LMAO


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## Draakc from State Farm (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Because they're lazy and think there's no such thing as video games for adults.
> Reminds me of a video where someone let their 5 year old relative play GTA V and left for a short while to come back and find the kid found the tiddy bar.
> Not the kid's fault lol


I really think people should have to get tested to see if they'd be a good parent before they are allowed to get pregnant


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## Draakc from State Farm (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> tiddy bar LMAO


I thought he said teddy bear at first


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 18, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> EDIT: There is more to it than just what I've put here, but regardless, I don't think we should shut minors out. It's always somebody's fault if a minor sees porn. Let's not shift the blame onto people's parents or search engines. If you are an adult, bloody well act like it and be responsible.


Minors are responsible for their own actions, too. Parents are ultimately responsible for parenting their children. The idea that in order for a minor to see pornographic material an adult (who is not their parent) must have failed them is hella flawed. Parenting your kid is not my damn job, and if I clearly state that my gallery/whatever is a space not appropriate for minors, it’s frankly up to them to respect those warnings.

If a minor lies about their age to access age-inappropriate material, that’s on that minor, not the adult who shared it in good faith. Adults who knowingly share NSFW material with children are a different matter.


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## KD142000 (Oct 18, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> Minors are responsible for their own actions, too. Parents are ultimately responsible for parenting their children. The idea that in order for a minor to see pornographic material an adult (who is not their parent) must have failed them is hella flawed. Parenting your kid is not my damn job, and if I clearly state that my gallery/whatever is a space not appropriate for minors, it’s frankly up to them to respect those warnings.
> 
> If a minor lies about their age to access age-inappropriate material, that’s on that minor, not the adult who shared it in good faith. Adults who knowingly share NSFW material with children are a different matter.


Yes, I meant to write that, but I thought I'd address what people in the fandom can do to prevent minors from seeing NSFW material.


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## Punji (Oct 18, 2020)

Personally I don't really think it's an issue if minors are exposed to adult content, so long as it was their choice.

My first exposure to the concept of the fandom itself was through an illicit Google images search which lead me towards a certain site regarding monosodium glutamate. With which I have conducted research from for many years, including those of which I spent as a minor. Maybe people just don't like the idea, I don't know, but sexuality and sexual health don't suddenly flick on the day of someone's 18th birthday. It's better to have a safe and curated outlet than to just be left to one's own devices, in my opinion.

I think if the community as a whole could embrace and enforce a "bad tagging is a crime" mentality we wouldn't really be having these issues or discussions. If a person has to actively pursue adult content, could not accidentally be exposed to it, and had to consent prior to initial exposure, I wouldn't think the age of the person should matter.

It's not exactly difficult to find NSFW content in the fandom. As multiple furs have already said here it's easy to find mature and adult content without being signed in. I recently discovered a huge heaping sum of it on Twitter by looking at pictures of cute fursuits. Went from fun and adorable and wholesome to vaguely questionable to quite suggestive to blatantly explicit to purely adult-oriented accounts. And I started from the FA Twitter account! But I knew what I was looking at and I consented to viewing it even if I wasn't initially looking for it. If it was harder to find accidentally and gave a warning regardless of the site, type of adult content, or platform, there wouldn't really be an issue in my eyes.

People ought to be responsible for their own choices. As long as they are presented with the decision themselves I see no issue with the varying degrees of content provided.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 18, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Even so.
> It isn't their fault people let their kids watch what they don't approve of.



Parenting is generally quite lax these days. Kids spend most of their time at school, with their friends, everywhere but at home under their parents supervision quite often. I could go on but generally I think the situation with modern parenting has a lot of problems, with the whole use your words nonsense, everyone has right to thee own opinions, don’t hurt your kids feelings, and so forth. It gets to the point where parents like aren’t allowed to do anything anymore. So just buy them some video games and smartphones and ignore them and don’t teach them any responsibility. Woohoo. And we wonder why everything’s falling apart.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> I think the situation with modern parenting has a lot of problems, with the whole use your words nonsense


I don't quite understand what's wrong with teaching your children how to communicate how they feel? That's an important skill.


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## Lucyfur (Oct 18, 2020)

no one ever said people didn't have a right to their opinions, but having a right to that opinion does not mean you also have the right to not be rebuffed on that opinion especially if that opinion is actually incorrect.
And yeah the other portion about how things are falling apart because of the kids and their nintendos and their whizzly gogs isn't really true either because ummm what demographics have made the choices to get the world here and still "run" the world through politics, economics, academia, and business in general?


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## KD142000 (Oct 18, 2020)

If it's that much of an issue, I'd suggest separating furry sites into SFW-only and SFW + NSFW sections, where someone has to be 18 or over and provide ID verification to go into the NSFW space. That's the only solution I can see.

Shutting out minors from the furry fandom is like telling a kid he can't like SImba cos some creepy weirdo drew porn of him one time. It's a crazy notion to just kick out minors because horny furries don't want to watch their mouths or restrain themselves from posting naughty artwork.


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> If it's that much of an issue, I'd suggest separating furry sites into SFW-only and SFW + NSFW sections, where someone has to be 18 or over and provide ID verification to go into the NSFW space. That's the only solution I can see.
> 
> Shutting out minors from the furry fandom is like telling a kid he can't like SImba cos some creepy weirdo drew porn of him one time. It's a crazy notion to just kick out minors because horny furries don't want to watch their mouths or restrain themselves from posting naughty artwork.


^This. All though having to provide an ID every time you wanted to go into the NSFW sphere seems kind of extreme. :/


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## KD142000 (Oct 18, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> ^This. All though having to provide an ID every time you wanted to go into the NSFW sphere seems kind of extreme. :/


Well, I would say it's a one time thing. Also, these spaces should still be monitored. If someone is acting suspiciously like an under-18, an investigation should be called for. It's important to remove those who ignore or circumvent warnings and security measures, too.

For example, I think staff members should ask members for ID when they want to become part of the NSFW section. That way, the NSFW side of the fandom has a space exclusively for it where there is a much lower chance of it being viewed by minors.


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## LeFay (Oct 18, 2020)

The only reason I could see anyone wanting to ban children from the fandom is either you want to horny post without looking like a creep or you're too lazy to section off content.

If a kid goes looking for this content thats their fault. If you're deliberately posting that sort of content in a space shared by minors thats on you. You're the adult in that situation.

Gate keeping the fandom because you lack self control is hella ignorant. This fandom is not nsfw centric. Every fandom has nsfw content, should children be banned from every fandom because you're a man child with no self awareness?


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## VeeStars (Oct 18, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Well, I would say it's a one time thing. Also, these spaces should still be monitored. If someone is acting suspiciously like an under-18, an investigation should be called for. It's important to remove those who ignore or circumvent warnings and security measures, too.
> 
> For example, I think staff members should ask members for ID when they want to become part of the NSFW section. At the very least, this gives people old enough to see and post NSFW things. That way, the NSFW side of the fandom has a space exclusively for it where there is a much lower chance of it being viewed by minors.


I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to give my ID to people I know nothing about >.<




LeFay said:


> The only reason I could see anyone wanting to ban children from the fandom is either you want to horny post without looking like a creep or you're too lazy to section off content.
> 
> If a kid goes looking for this content thats their fault. If you're deliberately posting that sort of content in a space shared by minors thats on you. You're the adult in that situation.
> 
> Gate keeping the fandom because you lack self control is hella ignorant. This fandom is not nsfw centric. Every fandom has nsfw content, should children be banned from every fandom because you're a man child with no self awareness?


^This


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to give my ID to people I know nothing about >.<
> 
> 
> 
> ^This


Well, this does highlight the tough love aspect. If someone wants to join the NSFW section of a fandom, I really think they should be asked for ID to verify their age. Otherwise, it's a 'see you later' situation.

It's either put up or shut up. People's words aren't good enough, seeing as how people lie about lesser things. You can blot out info with your ID such as your address and state. Your date of birth and photo is all that's really needed.


----------



## MrSpookyBoots (Oct 19, 2020)

I don't think it's a matter of "should." Kids are going to find their way into the fandom one way or another and see all of the pornographic art if they aren't supervised properly. If a kid desperately wants to find their way into the fandom, the most determined ones will find a way to do so behind their parents' backs if they are not being carefully watched.

If I were a parent, I would personally say *NO* because the amount of pornography involved is clearly visible. Pornography and "yiff" are ingrained in the fandom, whether people choose to acknowledge that or not. I don't really care if a kid does join the community, though...because they aren't my own kid. So in this case, I'm not really sure.


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

MrSpooky said:


> I don't think it's a matter of "should." Kids are going to find their way into the fandom one way or another and see all of the pornographic art if they aren't supervised properly. If a kid desperately wants to find their way into the fandom, the most determined ones will find a way to do so behind their parents' backs if they are not being carefully watched.
> 
> If I were a parent, I would personally say *NO* because the amount of pornography involved is clearly visible. Pornography and "yiff" are ingrained in the fandom, whether people deny it or not. I don't really care if a kid does join the community, though...because they aren't my own kid. So in this case, I'm not really sure.


Like many people have said before, banning kids isn't the answer. Kids should be supervised and people should tag their freaking yiff artwork and have some self control. Banning kids from the whole fandom is probably going to end poorly for the fandom, as most furries are young.


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

MrSpooky said:


> I don't think it's a matter of "should." Kids are going to find their way into the fandom one way or another and see all of the pornographic art if they aren't supervised properly. If a kid desperately wants to find their way into the fandom, the most determined ones will find a way to do so behind their parents' backs if they are not being carefully watched.
> 
> If I were a parent, I would personally say *NO* because the amount of pornography involved is clearly visible. Pornography and "yiff" are ingrained in the fandom, whether people choose to acknowledge that or not. I don't really care if a kid does join the community, though...because they aren't my own kid. So in this case, I'm not really sure.


I think you have a point here, but it is a furry staple that parents do not know about the fandom, mostly because most people are fearful of their parents reactions. Remember that we have unreasonable haters who will paint the fandom as if it's entirely made up of sexual deviants who want nothing more than to make porn of characters and pretend to be them in sexual situations.

I do think people should make sure they post things in the appropriate spaces. At least then they're in the right place and aren't visible to people who do take heed of the filter system and the warnings.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

LeFay said:


> The only reason I could see anyone wanting to ban children from the fandom is either you want to horny post without looking like a creep or you're too lazy to section off content.
> 
> If a kid goes looking for this content thats their fault. If you're deliberately posting that sort of content in a space shared by minors thats on you. You're the adult in that situation.
> 
> Gate keeping the fandom because you lack self control is hella ignorant. *This fandom is not nsfw centric.* Every fandom has nsfw content, should children be banned from every fandom because you're a man child with no self awareness?



Really then how come every furry is... did you see my thread... a horny bad dragon addict. 

The fandom has a serious PR issue man. 

It also doesn’t help that most of the adult furries act like children anyway. Arrested developmental progress I think


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> I think you have a point here, but it is a furry staple that parents do not know about the fandom, mostly because most people are fearful of their parents reactions. Remember that we have unreasonable haters who will paint the fandom as if it's entirely made up of sexual deviants who want nothing more than to make porn of characters and pretend to be them in sexual situations.
> 
> I do think people should make sure they post things in the appropriate spaces. At least then they're in the right place and aren't visible to people who do take heed of the filter system and the warnings.


Hi I’m a sexual deviant who want nothing more than to make porn of characters and pretend to be them in sexual situations pleased to meet you and I’m not exactly a minority in this fandom.


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Really then how come every furry is... did you see my thread...***SNIP****


Ah yes, I, a minor, am totally that.



SwiftDog said:


> Hi I’m a ***SNIP***.


Every post you make makes me think you are a troll more and more.


----------



## MrSpookyBoots (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Really then how come every furry is... did you see my thread... a horny bad dragon addict.
> 
> The fandom has a serious PR issue man.
> 
> It also doesn’t help that most of the adult furries act like children anyway. Arrested developmental progress I think


To everyone else...I think posts like these are best ignored. They're incendiary and add nothing of value to the topic.

Just my two cents!


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Hi I’m a sexual deviant who want nothing more than to make porn of characters and pretend to be them in sexual situations pleased to meet you and I’m not exactly a minority in this fandom.


Hi. I don't care. If you've nothing meaningful to add, don't bother. It's a waste of calories and your own time.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Ah yes, I, a minor, am totally that.
> 
> 
> Every post you make makes me think you are a troll more and more.


Geez you poor thing. You really shouldn’t be in conversations like this. 

But since everyone else seems wants you here for some reason (disturbing) what do you think about the overtly sexual side of the fandom? 



KD142000 said:


> Hi. I don't care. If you've nothing meaningful to add, don't bother. It's a waste of calories and your own time.



No I need the extra calories. Hands off my roadkill.


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Geez you poor thing. You really shouldn’t be in conversations like this.
> 
> But since everyone else seems wants you here for some reason (disturbing) what do you think about the overtly sexual side of the fandom?
> 
> ...


Would you kindly stop being a rude asshole to everybody with letters in their name? That'd be much appreciated.

VeeStars is welcome in this community. Funnily enough, trolls aren't, though. Maybe rethink your behaviour?


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Geez you poor thing. You really shouldn’t be in conversations like this.


This thread is about whether children (as in minors) should be allowed in the fandom? I want to tell people not to kick children out so I can enjoy cute fluffy animals.


----------



## LeFay (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Really then how come every furry is... did you see my thread... a horny bad dragon addict.
> 
> The fandom has a serious PR issue man.
> 
> It also doesn’t help that most of the adult furries act like children anyway. Arrested developmental progress I think



Obvious troll is obvious


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Would you kindly stop being a rude asshole to everybody with letters in their name? That'd be much appreciated.
> 
> VeeStars is welcome in this community. Funnily enough, trolls aren't, though. Maybe rethink your behaviour?



Hmm yes 14 year old welcome where sexual issues get overtly discussed. Is this sex education or something? Who put you in charge of that decision? Real talk here. I see people defending at once allowing minors to do whatever, be wherever, its the parents job to safeguard their kids, snd gatekeeping isn’t even necessary. Wtf? And somehow I’m the creep? Y’all need a fcking mirror.


----------



## KimberVaile (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Hmm yes 14 year old welcome where sexual issues get overtly discussed. Is this sex education or something? Who put you in charge of that decision? Real talk here. I see people defending at once allowing minors to do whatever, be wherever, its the parents job to safeguard their kids, snd gatekeeping isn’t even necessary. Wtf? And somehow I’m the creep? Y’all need a fcking mirror.


Dude, you openly admitted to enjoying NSFW cub porn, lmao. Christ almighty, how delusional are you?


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

KimberVaile said:


> Dude, you openly admitted to enjoying NSFW cub porn, lmao. Christ almighty, how delusional are you?


Is this true? It's sad I don't find that hard to believe...


----------



## KimberVaile (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Is this true? It's sad I don't find that hard to believe...


Yes, it's in his posting history.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> This thread is about whether children (as in minors) should be allowed in the fandom? I want to tell people not to kick children out *so I can enjoy cute fluffy animals.*



Kid you might as well slap a label on yourself that says “prime creep target.”


KimberVaile said:


> Dude, you openly admitted to enjoying NSFW cub porn, lmao. Christ almighty, how delusional are you?



Think about that for a moment. Think about what you just said. You said I’m the creep. And if that’s true and I’m telling you how this shit happens and that it does happen and it happens a lot more often than you think, doesn’t that give my opinion a lot more weight? 

This is *not a minor friendly fandom. *


----------



## MrSpookyBoots (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Hmm yes 14 year old welcome where sexual issues get overtly discussed. Is this sex education or something? Who put you in charge of that decision? Real talk here. I see people defending at once allowing minors to do whatever, be wherever, its the parents job to safeguard their kids, snd gatekeeping isn’t even necessary. Wtf? And somehow I’m the creep? Y’all need a fcking mirror.


The nature of the boards is completely different from that of the main website. It's a false equivalency.

_Discussing_ this topic doesn't imply raunchiness or unprofessional behavior. The topic itself is actually a *mature*, serious question that can lead to a respectable discussion. My question for you, is: Why can't you be just as respectful?


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Hmm yes 14 year old welcome where sexual issues get overtly discussed. Is this sex education or something? Who put you in charge of that decision? Real talk here. I see people defending at once allowing minors to do whatever, be wherever, its the parents job to safeguard their kids, snd gatekeeping isn’t even necessary. Wtf? And somehow I’m the creep? Y’all need a fcking mirror.


Not my fault if creepy old men can't shut up about it, is it? And yes, the parent who doesn't know their kid is a furry is gonna safeguard them on a site they don't know about cos the kid is visiting it behind their back. You do realise there's more to life than pinning the blame on another person for your inability to cool it with the sexual talk?

Oh, so the dude who admits he goes on sites where there's cub art isn't a creep? Never heard such bollocks in all my life.


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Kid you might as well slap a label on yourself that says “prime creep target.”
> 
> 
> Think about that for a moment. Think about what you just said. You said I’m the creep. And if that’s true and I’m telling you how this shit happens and that it does happen and it happens a lot more often than you think, doesn’t that give my opinion a lot more weight?
> ...


I am very close to saying something a mod will pull me up for, but I will give no shits about cos it bears saying.


----------



## Lucyfur (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Hmm yes 14 year old welcome where sexual issues get overtly discussed. Is this sex education or something? Who put you in charge of that decision? Real talk here. I see people defending at once allowing minors to do whatever, be wherever, its the parents job to safeguard their kids, snd gatekeeping isn’t even necessary. Wtf? And somehow I’m the creep? Y’all need a fcking mirror.


Uhhh being that this isn’t an NSFW environment there shouldn’t be NSFW content here.
Being that it’s about a demographic @VeeStars is part of they’re very much open to join the discussion because well you’re in essence asking if they should be in a fandom about anthros.
You know the thing many of us were drawn to from and during our childhood as well.


----------



## KimberVaile (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Kid you might as well slap a label on yourself that says “prime creep target.”
> 
> 
> Think about that for a moment. Think about what you just said. You said I’m the creep. And if that’s true and I’m telling you how this shit happens and that it does happen and it happens a lot more often than you think, doesn’t that give my opinion a lot more weight?
> ...


Well you're conflating somebody else's position with my own. I don't think kids should be allowed in the fandom, personally. As to what to do about that though, is up for debate. I am saying though, that you attacking somebody elses character is probably something you should avoid doing, considering the shit your into. Keep it to attacking arguments.


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

MrSpooky said:


> The nature of the boards is completely different from that of the main website. It's a false equivalency.
> 
> _Discussing_ this topic doesn't imply raunchiness or unprofessional behavior. The topic itself is actually a *mature*, serious question that can lead to a respectable discussion. My question for you, is: Why can't you be just as respectful?


^ This


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Oct 19, 2020)

This thread again?


----------



## Lucyfur (Oct 19, 2020)

Rimna said:


> This thread again?


Lol SwiftDog again being the trashman


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

MrSpooky said:


> The nature of the boards is completely different from that of the main website. It's a false equivalency.
> 
> _Discussing_ this topic doesn't imply raunchiness or unprofessional behavior. The topic itself is actually a *mature*, serious question that can lead to a respectable discussion. My question for you, is: Why can't you be just as respectful?



Because I have no respect for furries.
And no. The site is way worse. There are profile pages where people admit to being zoophiles. And you’re saying it’s just oopsie daisy because the parent isn’t monitoring their child closely enough. How irresponsible of you.



KimberVaile said:


> Well you're conflating somebody else's position with my own. I don't think kids should be allowed in the fandom, personally. As to what to do about that though, is up for debate. I am saying though, that you attacking somebody elses character is probably something you should avoid doing, considering the shit your into. Keep it to attacking arguments.



I keep it to myself and don’t shove it other peoples faces. And I can’t stand it and hate myself at the same time and probably need hundreds of hours of therapy. So like, come at me bro.



KD142000 said:


> Not my fault if creepy old men can't shut up about it, is it? And yes, the parent who doesn't know their kid is a furry is gonna safeguard them on a site they don't know about cos the kid is visiting it behind their back. You do realise there's more to life than pinning the blame on another person for your inability to cool it with the sexual talk?
> 
> Oh, so the dude who admits he goes on sites where there's cub art isn't a creep? Never heard such bollocks in all my life.



No I am a creep. Get with the program, Jesus Christ. Which makes me very knowledgeable on what other creeps are prone to doing. There’s very very little that prevents minors from getting into erotic roleplay sessions with adults for instance. And it happens all over the place. In your fandom. But go ahead, keep those blinders on.

Defending minors being in this fandom is downright unethical. Or at least it should be from your point of views.


----------



## Bababooey (Oct 19, 2020)

Rimna said:


> This thread again?



Yep. I forgot I even made this tbh.
I don't want it to divulge into yet another flamewar against Swiftdog.
I don't like him either but can we please just not respond to him?

*Please? *


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

Chomby said:


> Yep. I forgot I even made this tbh.
> I don't want it to divulge into yet another flamewar against Swiftdog.
> I don't like him either but can we please just not respond to him?
> 
> *Please? *


Why is he even here....


----------



## KimberVaile (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> I keep it to myself and don’t shove it other peoples faces. And I can’t stand it and hate myself at the same time and probably need hundreds of hours of therapy. So like, come at me bro.



People will be more inclined to listen to you if you engaged their arguments respectfully and didn't try to drag them down to your level. How exactly do you feel better about yourself when you drag down somebody whose mother is in critical condition? Its fucking sick.


----------



## luffy (Oct 19, 2020)

Please direct this thread back to the topic subject or I will be locking it and reviewing rule violations.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

>thread gets made asking if minors should be allowed in the fandom because of all the nsfw content
>known creepy person comes on and points out all the various ways it’s easy to take advantage of minors in the fandom
>”oh lol it’s perfectly safe here lol people shouldn’t gatekeep and parents should just monitor the thousands of hours their kids spend online better!” 
[


----------



## Lucyfur (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> . There’s very very little that prevents minors from getting into erotic roleplay sessions with minors for instance. And it happens all over the place. In your fandom. But go ahead, keep those blinders on.


Uhhh who gives a fuck if minors ERP with other minors? Like hello?
And minors ERPing with minors happens everywhere outside the fandom too. I was once a minor on the internet in chats with other minors.
Like long as it’s with themselves it’s whatever.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

KimberVaile said:


> People will be more inclined to listen to you if you engaged their arguments respectfully and didn't try to drag them down to your level. How exactly do you feel better about yourself when you drag down somebody whose mother is in critical condition? Its fucking sick.



Because furries lie about stuff like that to get attention all the time lmao. I have no way of knowing what claims are and aren’t legitimate. Why would I be nice and respectful when all anyone does is hate on me for my interests? Not that it bothers me, but that’s pretty hypocritical.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> Uhhh who gives a fuck if minors ERP with other minors? Like hello?
> And minors ERPing with minors happens everywhere outside the fandom too. I was once a minor on the internet in chats with other minors.
> Like long as it’s with themselves it’s whatever.



Yes I agree. But I meant minors roleplaying with adults. Sorry.


----------



## Bababooey (Oct 19, 2020)

*Stop responding to SwiftDog. 

You are just fueling the fire. *

*Please stop or I will tell luffy to lock my thread. *


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Because I have no respect for furries.
> And no. The site is way worse. There are profile pages where people admit to being zoophiles. And you’re saying it’s just oopsie daisy because the parent isn’t monitoring their child closely enough. How irresponsible of you.
> 
> 
> ...


You're an admitted viewer of cub art. I don't think you have room to talk about 'defending minors from unethical furries'
If you don't like it here...leave? Others have. Don't know what's stopping you at this point.

Also, I think your previous interactions with me warrant a full on ban, regardless. You can't be civil nor fair in anything.

A person who has fantasies of the sexual nature about children, in my opinion, shouldn't have the right to exist, let alone talk about protecting children. If we're gonna protect children, we'll keep cub enthusiasts the eff out of this fandom. That'd be a good start.

In other words, pack your bags. You're leaving.


SwiftDog said:


> Because furries lie about stuff like that to get attention all the time lmao. I have no way of knowing what claims are and aren’t legitimate. Why would I be nice and respectful when all anyone does is hate on me for my interests? Not that it bothers me, but that’s pretty hypocritical.


If you paid any attention to my personality around here, you'd know I'm not a liar. I don't lie about things like that. That's called being sick in the head.


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

Chomby said:


> *Stop responding to SwiftDog.
> 
> You are just fueling the fire. *
> 
> *Please stop or I will tell luffy to lock my thread. *


Fine. I won't respond to him.
(Didn't see this before cos was typing)


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Oct 19, 2020)

If more adults could exercise self-control, then yes.

*sees state of thread*

Yeah, with more adulting.  Maybe call the fandom a PG-17 with minors accompanied by responsible adult.


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

This fandom can be a really welcoming and friendly community if you know how to navigate the internet. Luckily there are many guides such as this one: https://furryfandomsafetyguide.carrd.co/ , and schools (I'm not sure about this one but I know at least schools here teach internet safety). This fandom isn't too different from other fandoms, except NSFW is a little too easy to find but if the main sites like FA really work on it, it can be fixed or at least improved.

Before I was here, I used to be in the Pokemon community, and heck, I still kind of am. If your kid knows how to stay safe and you can make sure that they know they can talk to you if they get in trouble, then it is good to let them participate in these communities. Much better than making sure your kid can never use the internet, which only does more harm than good.


----------



## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> You're an admitted viewer of cub art. I don't think you have room to talk about 'defending minors from unethical furries'
> If you don't like it here...leave? Others have. Don't know what's stopping you at this point.
> 
> Also, I think your previous interactions with me warrant a full on ban, regardless. You can't be civil nor fair in anything.
> ...



You really don’t get it do you? This stuff happens on normal furry chatrooms, I’ve seen it all over the place where the line between minor and adult is blurred or just nonexistent. (Often the minor themselves is running the chatroom but not always.) Your perception is colored because you imagine some creepy guy spending his time snickering at lewd cub art. In reality I rarely view yiff or porn if you must know it’s only one of many interests I have. (One is my interests includes taking breaks from my basement to take luxurious road trips basically whenever I want but since I’m a creep with a keyboard that must not be true.) 

But let’s pretend for a moment that I am actually a real person with real thoughts and opinions and loves and hates and desires. And if I do have problems with these desires I probably do actually need tons of therapy to help me heal and get past my self loathing. But you all don’t care, all you care about is that I hurt your feelings, disagree with you, and am an “other.” You cannot see when someone needs help and companionship, you only see what I want you to see - which is a hateful target to turn you as hateful as I feel. You can’t see it and you probably never will because your minds are not wired to rework that way. So are you actually a good person? 

And a o as usual no one here can get past the personal. You bicker and bitch and whine because you know the fandom has a trash reputation and you know that there are creeps everywhere and you know that those creeps interact with minors all the time. 

So either you care about it and decide to do something about it or not. 

And that’s my piece.


----------



## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> You really don’t get it do you? This stuff happens on normal furry chatrooms, I’ve seen it all over the place where the line between minor and adult is blurred or just nonexistent. (Often the minor themselves is running the chatroom but not always.) Your perception is colored because you imagine some creepy guy spending his time snickering at lewd cub art. In reality I rarely view yiff or porn if you must know it’s only one of many interests I have. (One is my interests includes taking breaks from my basement to take luxurious road trips basically whenever I want but since I’m a creep with a keyboard that must not be true.)
> 
> But let’s pretend for a moment that I am actually a real person with real thoughts and opinions and loves and hates and desires. And if I do have problems with these desires I probably do actually need tons of therapy to help me heal and get past my self loathing. But you all don’t care, all you care about is that I hurt your feelings, disagree with you, and am an “other.” You cannot see when someone needs help and companionship, you only see what I want you to see - which is a hateful target to turn you as hateful as I feel. You can’t see it and you probably never will because your minds are not wired to rework that way. So are you actually a good person?
> 
> ...


My advice to you would be to seek therapy for these issues you're facing. I think you're aware that most of us aren't therapists and can't facilitate that assistance. I'll treat your issues seriously and take your word for it.

I am sorry if you have felt alienated. However, conducting yourself better may prove beneficial.

On topic- If the issue is with creeps, then we should ban the creeps rather than the kids? After all, the kids are victims to this. It would be counterintuitive to keep the cause of the problem within the fandom and kick those affected out.


----------



## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> My advice to you would be to seek therapy for these issues you're facing. I think you're aware that most of us aren't therapists and can't facilitate that assistance. I'll treat your issues seriously and take your word for it.
> 
> I am sorry if you have felt alienated. However, conducting yourself better may prove beneficial.
> 
> On topic- If the issue is with creeps, then we should ban the creeps rather than the kids? After all, the kids are victims to this. It would be counterintuitive to keep the cause of the problem within the fandom and kick those affected out.


^^^


----------



## Deleted member 132067 (Oct 19, 2020)

The most common denominator of this fandom as a whole is liking anthropomorphic animals. These can be enjoyed by everyone, and media such as Disney films are certainly reinforcing that age, it it from a young or old age, does not matter here.

Do I feel good about underage people being, say, specifically on this forum? Not really, no. It's supposed to be for everyone, yes, but that is not what it's participants have in mind when conversing here. People cuss (I'm very guilty here), people discuss nsfw topics, many have problems which are communicated to everyone through threads or dm's. I am willing to bet many don't consider the age of their chat partner when they're busy crying their heart out to them, telling of their ruined psyche, sad family or the lack of friends/lovers. All of these things aren't subjects children should concern themselves with, and the children themselves don't have the capacity and knowledge to actively stay away from it. It's up to adults to be mindful of what and to whom they're communicating.
If we can do that we can make this truly a place for everyone.

And while I personally have no interest to interact with people under the age of 18 (or perhaps at least 21, now that I look through the newest threads), I don't need to make this an unwelcoming or bad environment for said people because of it.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> You really don’t get it do you? This stuff happens on normal furry chatrooms, I’ve seen it all over the place where the line between minor and adult is blurred or just nonexistent. (Often the minor themselves is running the chatroom but not always.) Your perception is colored because you imagine some creepy guy spending his time snickering at lewd cub art. In reality I rarely view yiff or porn if you must know it’s only one of many interests I have. (One is my interests includes taking breaks from my basement to take luxurious road trips basically whenever I want but since I’m a creep with a keyboard that must not be true.)
> 
> But let’s pretend for a moment that I am actually a real person with real thoughts and opinions and loves and hates and desires. And if I do have problems with these desires I probably do actually need tons of therapy to help me heal and get past my self loathing. But you all don’t care, all you care about is that I hurt your feelings, disagree with you, and am an “other.” You cannot see when someone needs help and companionship, you only see what I want you to see - which is a hateful target to turn you as hateful as I feel. You can’t see it and you probably never will because your minds are not wired to rework that way. So are you actually a good person?
> 
> ...


These problems aren't unique to the fandom, bud.
It's just as much of a problem pretty much everywhere else.
You find a fandom that's just as inclusive, especially to those that have been cast out of society at large due to sexuality or gender identity, you're gonna get kids.
And you're gonna get people who prey on them.
Of course this isn't me being dismissive, but if kids were suddenly just banned from furry spaces, they'd find somewhere else to get the attention and recognition society and/or their families wont give them that they crave and be as equally exposed to bad actors, if not more exposed, than they are now.


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## Lyka Snowfiled (Oct 19, 2020)

Definitedly n o t. Too much adult stuff all around these days.


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## StolenMadWolf (Oct 19, 2020)

As long as the kids are kept away from all the NSFW and adult material, I do not see the problem with kids getting involved.

Hell, it's the same for nearly any fandom.


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## Skittles (Oct 19, 2020)

Yes. Moderated. Secure. Away from the NSFW corners. By responsible background checked adults! Admittedly. This is quite a hard thing logistically to do. But would be ideal.


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## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> The most common denominator of this fandom as a whole is liking anthropomorphic animals. These can be enjoyed by everyone, and media such as Disney films are certainly reinforcing that age, it it from a young or old age, does not matter here.
> 
> Do I feel good about underage people being, say, specifically on this forum? Not really, no. It's supposed to be for everyone, yes, but that is not what it's participants have in mind when conversing here. People cuss (I'm very guilty here), people discuss nsfw topics, many have problems which are communicated to everyone through threads or dm's. I am willing to bet many don't consider the age of their chat partner when they're busy crying their heart out to them, telling of their ruined psyche, sad family or the lack of friends/lovers. All of these things aren't subjects children should concern themselves with, and the children themselves don't have the capacity and knowledge to actively stay away from it. It's up to adults to be mindful of what and to whom they're communicating.
> If we can do that we can make this truly a place for everyone.
> ...


I like how you mention cussing as a bad or adult thing. Have you ever met a teenager? Lol


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## Deleted member 132067 (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> I like how you mention cussing as a bad or adult thing. Have you ever met a teenager? Lol


How do you think they've learned it to begin with?


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## Skittles (Oct 19, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> How do you think they've learned it to begin with?


To be fair. You have never cursed much when we have spoken


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## MrSpookyBoots (Oct 19, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> How do you think they've learned it to begin with?


I learned how to swear since I was a babe because my father has always cursed like a sailor.

How a person learns to swear is likely circumstantial.


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## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> How do you think they've learned it to begin with?


It's weird that you put cussing on the same level as NSFW. Cussing (excluding slurs of course) is pretty harmless fun if it's between two teenagers who are fine with it, which it usually is.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> It's weird that you put cussing on the same level as NSFW. Cussing (excluding slurs of course) is pretty harmless fun if it's between two teenagers who are fine with it, which it usually is.


I don't. I claim both aren't for children, not once have I rated them individually, let alone specifically stated they're equal.


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## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> I don't. I claim both aren't for children, not once have I rated them individually, let alone specifically stated they're equal.


Fine in my opinion. However, it is very hard to prevent kids from hearing swear words. If it's not in the fandom, it'll be from some other source which is out of our control.


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## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Fine in my opinion. However, it is very hard to prevent kids from hearing swear words. If it's not in the fandom, it'll be from some other source which is out of our control.


Children are going to hear swear words, period. It's practically impossible to prevent that, unless you lock your child at home and never have them interact with anyone, which obviously doesn't help anyone.


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## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Children are going to hear swear words, period. It's practically impossible to prevent that, unless you lock your child at home and never have them interact with anyone, which obviously doesn't help anyone.


Yes, that was my point. But doesn't mean I like hearing swear words in media intended for kids. I'm still flummoxed Crash 4 has the word 'bastards' in it and doesn't even feel fit to address it, despite being for an audience 12 and up according to the rating.

That was quite shocking to me. Not that I have a problem with swearing itself. It's an (albeit lazy) expression of displeasure with something or someone. It is rude, but I wouldn't say it's the worst thing ever to grace humanity.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

There’s horny 23 year olds doing erotic roleplays with 16 year old but let’s make sure they don’t hear any swear words! *facedesk*


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## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Yes, that was my point. But doesn't mean I like hearing swear words in media intended for kids. I'm still flummoxed Crash 4 has the word 'bastards' in it and doesn't even feel fit to address it, despite being for an audience 12 and up according to the rating.
> 
> That was quite shocking to me. Not that I have a problem with swearing itself. It's an (albeit lazy) expression of displeasure with something or someone. It is rude, but I wouldn't say it's the worst thing ever to grace humanity.


Swearing because you slammed your finger in the door is completely fine (and is proven to reduce pain if I remember correctly), while swearing at someone you don't know in the street or your parents is rude.


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 19, 2020)

I think it’s important to remember, in regards to minors’ participation on forums or other social platforms, that these spaces will, at least, be 13+. COPPA requirements make it pretty infeasible to run a service that permits meaningful levels of custom interaction between users targeted at children under 13.

I personally don’t consider 13 so young that profanity is a realistic concern (they’re not likely to learn anything new from me in that regard), provided it’s not the kind that goes into explicit detail on impossible sex acts or whatever.

I also want to mention, in regards to “creepy” interactions, that there’s a significant difference between an 18-year-old engaging in mutually enjoyable dirty talk with a 16/17-year-old, and a 30-year-old trying to entice or pressure  a 14-year-old into typesexing. When they get judged equally harshly, I don’t think the end result is going to benefit anyone but the people doing the judging (who get to feel good about themselves for calling out the “pedophile” flirting with people 1-2 years their junior).


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## KD142000 (Oct 19, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Swearing because you slammed your finger in the door is completely fine (and is proven to reduce pain if I remember correctly), while swearing at someone you don't know in the street or your parents is rude.


Again, I agree.


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## Minerva_Minx (Oct 19, 2020)

90% of this argument could be solved by properly configuring firewalls and parental controls, educating kids, and using the NSFW/SFW slide on the main page.

The other 10% is community involvement and awareness using guidance, common sense, and an understanding of who we are attracting and where.  Should children be in the fandom?  Yes, because people have liked furries and furry art since the first cartoons were created.  The sexual explicitness and overt fetishism in the fandom I would argue is a more recent creation.

As for the misidentifying - I am guilty of this from time to time.  Nipple slip, wrong pose, what have you.  So I ask for clear comments if I misidentify something.  Most though aren't like me and do it blatantly.  When called out, it's ignored or left to someone else.  So, a bit of self-policing is probably in order.

And this is probably when the "ok, boomer" comments come, but honestly, after so many iterations of this thread, once more isn't going to tilt scales one way or another.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> I think it’s important to remember, in regards to minors’ participation on forums or other social platforms, that these spaces will, at least, be 13+. COPPA requirements make it pretty infeasible to run a service that permits meaningful levels of custom interaction between users targeted at children under 13.
> 
> I personally don’t consider 13 so young that profanity is a realistic concern (they’re not likely to learn anything new from me in that regard), provided it’s not the kind that goes into explicit detail on impossible sex acts or whatever.
> 
> I also want to mention, in regards to “creepy” interactions, that there’s a significant difference between an 18-year-old engaging in mutually enjoyable dirty talk with a 16/17-year-old, and a 30-year-old trying to entice or pressure  a 14-year-old into typesexing. When they get judged equally harshly, I don’t think the end result is going to benefit anyone but the people doing the judging (who get to feel good about themselves for calling out the “pedophile” flirting with people 1-2 years their junior).



See now if I mentioned 18 yo talking dirty with a 16 yo someone would be along shortly to call me names and tell me to die in the shadows. 

Y’all such a lovely bunch (heart emote)


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## Deleted member 134556 (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> See now if I mentioned 18 yo talking dirty with a 16 yo someone would be along shortly to call me names and tell me to die in the shadows.
> 
> Y’all such a lovely bunch (heart emote)


You poor thing


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## VeeStars (Oct 19, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> You poor thing


You aren't supposed to respond to him!! >:I


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 19, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> See now if I mentioned 18 yo talking dirty with a 16 yo someone would be along shortly to call me names and tell me to die in the shadows.
> 
> Y’all such a lovely bunch (heart emote)


No offense, but I rather doubt you’d be doing so with much of any nuance. Nuance was the entire point of my statement.

18-yo talking dirty to 16-yo is still acting inappropriately, putting themselves at risk for legal consequences, etc. I would still advise them not to do it. I’m simply saying that it may not help them, the 16-yo, or the fandom as a whole to jump straight to labeling their behavior as predatory, rather than teenagers being dumb teenagers doing dumb and/or ill-advised things.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 19, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> No offense, but I rather doubt you’d be doing so with much of any nuance. Nuance was the entire point of my statement.
> 
> 18-yo talking dirty to 16-yo is still acting inappropriately, putting themselves at risk for legal consequences, etc. I would still advise them not to do it. I’m simply saying that it may not help them, the 16-yo, or the fandom as a whole to jump straight to labeling their behavior as predatory, rather than teenagers being dumb teenagers doing dumb and/or ill-advised things.



You’re right, I don’t do nuance. I can just say “an 18 year old talking dirty while ill advised with a 16 year old is substantially less concerning than a 30 year old talking creepy with a 16 year old” and save myself 3 paragraphs.


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## Gangsta Fox (Nov 24, 2020)

Hi, I hope I'm not too late.

No, get these brats out of here. I'm tired of the youth being corrupted. .

We don't need any 13 year olds hanging out getting diaper fetishes, being snobs, yaff, and other unsavory furry things.


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## VeeStars (Nov 24, 2020)

Redfoxbennaton said:


> Hi, I hope I'm not too late.
> 
> No, get these brats out of here. I'm tired of the youth being corrupted. .
> 
> We don't need any 13 year olds hanging out getting diaper fetishes, being snobs, yaff, and other unsavory furry things.


Hi, "brat" here,

This is one of the most supportive communities I have ever had the pleasure of being in. I have made friends who are really supportive who have helped me try out she/her pronouns for the first time and help me find out I was gender-fluid, for example. You'll probably say I've been corrupted or something, whatever, I don't care


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## ben909 (Nov 24, 2020)

I think it is a little late honestly


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## Connor J. Coyote (Nov 26, 2020)

Hmm... well, like the cub content issue - I'd probably say it all comes down to personal values. As - if parents are okay with their children participating in it, then - well, who am I to judge.... right?

But.... personally - I would say no to this. As there are simply too many "adult aspects" of this Fandom that are probably inappropriate for them to be around..... and that'd probably include websites (like on here also). As frankly, I don't think (most minors) should be on places like this un-attended, at all..... but, again - I guess that's a judgement call, on the individual to make his/her choice as to what to do about it, (with their child).

And for the rest of us adults - it *is* a bit unfair in some ways....  as we have to constantly be mindful of what we say and do..... (at least most of us)....... but I *do* wish people would tone on their profanity on here, regardless.

As - given that there are minors on here - talking like a truck driver is probably equally inappropriate.


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## VeeStars (Nov 26, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> And for the rest of us adults - it *is* a bit unfair in some ways.... as we have to constantly be mindful of what we say and do..... (at least most of us)....... but I *do* wish people would tone on their profanity on here, regardless.


It would be more unfair if anyone under 18 wasn't allowed in because you can't control yourself. There are adult spaces for adults to do adult things. This isn't one of them.

Eh, profanity isn't the biggest issue. I know just as many swear words as any adult but I'm not yelling them all out at thanksgiving dinner x3


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

I still stand by my answer, yes. Children should be able enjoy the fandom too, as long as it's on the wholesome and age appropriate side.


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## Kharne (Nov 26, 2020)

I say we take the big leap and ban everyone from the fandom!


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

Kharne said:


> I say we take the big leap and ban everyone from the fandom!


That's throwing the baby, child, teenager, adult, and senior citizen out with the bathwater.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Nov 26, 2020)

I remember seeing a photo of a statue of a man fighting a bunch of babies. Sometimes in the fandom, I kinda feel like that statue, ngl.


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## Kharne (Nov 26, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> That's throwing the baby, child, teenager, adult, and senior citizen out with the bathwater.


We can sell that bathwater later


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

Rimna said:


> I remember seeing a photo of a statue of a man fighting a bunch of babies. Sometimes in the fandom, I kinda feel like that statue, ngl.


While this is relevant
NerdTests.com Quiz: How many kids could you fight?


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## Kharne (Nov 26, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> While this is relevant
> NerdTests.com Quiz: How many kids could you fight?


I got 24


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

Kharne said:


> I got 24


Now get a commission of it :V


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## VeeStars (Nov 26, 2020)

I only got 20 :C


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## Minerva_Minx (Nov 26, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Eh, profanity isn't the biggest issue. I know just as many swear words as any adult but I'm not yelling them all out at thanksgiving dinner x3


You're not?  But it's 2020...
----
Control yourself, control your kids -so, so many tools available to aid this one.  Personally, I'm not holding out hope on this one.  2020 has definitively trashed my expectations of American parents and self-restraint in general.


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## ConorHyena (Nov 26, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> While this is relevant
> NerdTests.com Quiz: How many kids could you fight?


28


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## Draakc from State Farm (Nov 26, 2020)

I think they should be but the fandoms not designed for them 
we need more furry websites with the option to turn off adult content 
Besides just the popular ones like furaffinity


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## VeeStars (Nov 26, 2020)

Minerva_Minx said:


> You're not? But it's 2020...


Oh you encouraging me?? Alright, imma do it!!!!!

jk, obviously, dont yell a bunch of swears at thanksgving x3


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## Minerva_Minx (Nov 26, 2020)

Child encouragement.  
1)Talk and get to know them.
2) Show responsible behavior.
3) Reinforce with negative consequences when undesirable responses occur,
4) positive reinforcement to motivate.
5) significant emotional event to seal it in.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Nov 26, 2020)

Kharne said:


> I got 24


I also got 24


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## VeeStars (Nov 26, 2020)

I'm apparently weak :C


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## Kharne (Nov 26, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> I also got 24


children punching buddies?


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## JacobFloofWoof (Nov 26, 2020)

No, the community by large is way too adult-oriented imo, and an important aspect to the fandom fundamentally. There's stuff in your face that cannot be ignored and just written off as "G-Rated", even if content within the community is inspired by such. Plus, it is composed of mostly adults and adult material, whether explicit or suggestive. To put it simply, there's nothing that would make room for a child to get involved, because getting involved is the problem. It can't be treated like going to Disneyworld and seeing cartoon animals anywhere, because the community is above that.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Nov 26, 2020)

Kharne said:


> children punching buddies?


let's get it on


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

Kharne said:


> children punching buddies?





Toby_Morpheus said:


> let's get it on


You two have fun. I only punch the children that disagree with my political views.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Nov 26, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> You two have fun. I only punch the children that disagree with my political views.


i'm an equal-opportunity face-puncher
got a face?
i punch it


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## Bababooey (Nov 26, 2020)

*sees my thread from June is still alive*

Me:


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## Kharne (Nov 26, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> i'm an equal-opportunity face-puncher
> got a face?
> i punch it


Same here
But I also do gut punches, back and side punches. I've also started experimenting with kicks.


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

I can't believe I'm talking with other furries online about beating up children. This is quite a new low for me.


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## ben909 (Nov 26, 2020)

[Nexus] said:


> I can't believe I'm talking with other furries online about beating up children.


Given enough time, all threads will become silly or will become dumpster fires


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## Deleted member 134556 (Nov 26, 2020)

ben909 said:


> Given enough time, all threads will become silly or will become dumpster fires


Well in that case I prefer the former, and I'm sure that feeling is mutual.


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## that_darn_furry (Nov 26, 2020)

I think it's quite alright for kids to join the furry fandom as long as the content is filtered - I came from a kid-orientated site for furries/therians and I wasn't exposed to any inappropriate content. Granted, I'm sure some where by either lying about their age, or there was disgusting human beings that groom minors. FA is the most popular site now, but there used to be more furry/therian accessible sites but with kids interest and technology advancing they're geared towards the more popular sites than smaller, more kid-friendly ones that FA, and thus have dwindled or ceased to exist.

I'm not so much worried about kids seeing illegal drug use, or explicit language, as I am sexually explicit content, and the risk of being groomed/taken advantage of. While it's inevitable it can be monitored and controlled, especially on smaller sites (I moderated a site where it was one of our jobs to handle the accounts, so it's definitely moderated to most site's best abilities), and FA moderators do handle this content.

LMAO I haven't read the rest of this topic so I'm really unsure why we're talking about going ham on some kids


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## Toby_Morpheus (Nov 26, 2020)

Kharne said:


> Same here
> But I also do gut punches, back and side punches. I've also started experimenting with kicks.


I'm a grappler tbh


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## Draakc from State Farm (Nov 26, 2020)

I am actually the last person to ask 
I believe children should lose their Innocence as soon as possible 
Maybe the only reason kids don't know about sex is because it's "Just how things have always been" 
Here's something I read online take it as some food for thought: 
"I've heard a few excuses, but two come to mind immediately. The first is that if you teach children about sex, they'll be more likely to try it at a younger age. This is a bit silly in my opinion; my parents first talked to me about sex when I was roughly five, and if anything it made me less curious. Since I could get whatever answers I needed in the comfort of my own home, I didn't feel the need to run into the arms of every guy I met lol.
Another reason is that it's just plain awkward! My son is going to be four in the spring, and I still see him as a little baby. I imagine it's a similar feeling for all parents - your child is always little to you, no matter how old they get. And the last thing most parents want to think about is their baby having sex. For this reason, I think a lot of parents either put it off until their kids are preteens or older - when it's likely to be MORE awkward - or just skip it entirely and hope the schools will handle it.
I think the best time to do it would be somewhere after those tender preschool years, but before fifth or sixth grade. You're relationship with your child will hopefully still be quite open, your kid will be curious but not yet fully physically developed, and I believe there was a study saying early at-home sex ed actually increased the age of a person's first sexual encounter. (Although I can't remember where I saw it, so I suppose I could have accidentally made it up.)
In summary, it's an uncomfortable conversation to have, and some parents worry that ANY sexual exposure, including just explaining the basics in private, could lead to their kids losing their virginities sooner than if the parents sucked it up and explained things, leaving the conversation open so any and all questions could be adequately covered. Unfortunately, that awkward talk is a necessary talk, and I'm sure there are tons of other reasons parents get so weird about it. Hopefully the trend of simply leaving it to the schools will fade away…although I kind of doubt it…" 
- Rachel Kindrid from Quora​


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## Monosuki the Aurian (Nov 26, 2020)

Woof, I didn't respond to this yet! Well, here's my take on this.

So, when it comes to children being in the fandom, I don't want my opinion to be biased, since I'm a kid too, but still. Anyways, back to the matter at hand. Kids can be online for an extensive majority of time, and most of the days we spend now are mainly online based, since Covid has everyone indoors. But yet, even without Covid coming into play, there has been some instances where children made it to the wrong sites, and I can attest to that fact. Other than that, when it comes to the fandom, I can say that I am no stranger when it comes to predatory behavior. I was around sixteen at the time when I had been in some online family of the sorts, and since I was the youngest, and the nicest at the time, it made me a prime victim to their..."family bonding." Since my mind had no firm grasp on the concept of adult ideals, I was curious, but before I actually went in and participated in that, I googled one of the things he mentioned......let's say, I wasn't ready for what that was about. It happened to be on a Discord site, and don't worry, the guy and all his associates were blocked. I had to admit, to take advantage of someone for their kind, yet blank slate of adult knowledge is truly heinous, but there are even worse atrocities that I can also reveal. It's pretty common for kids to accidentally come across that one guy, that one person who is only in it for the underage stuff. I know this well, and while the fandom can be dangerous, it is also pretty nice, with a friendly community, kind folks, and most importantly, other kids that can also meet up with kids their age, socialize, bond, and become great pals. Indeed I admit, there is definitely a predatory problem with the furry fandom, and that issues must be solved for the future generations as well. The main pressing issue is that since there are so many horny adults on there, some of the kids, tainted by that very notion, get corrupted, and eventually have that same mindset. I met a fifteen year old once.  Redacted wanted nothing but pics......and I'm guessing you know what of. It is sad to see this, but these vile actions will come to light. The _demonios_ who try to get away with that kind of stuff are sick, and what they do will eventually come to the truth, and they will pay dearly for their crimes. I get it though, because in some places, they try to say that age of consent is 16 or lower where they come from, but the main thing they seem to forget is that this is all virtual, and that it's still illegal either way it goes. Truth be told, justice will come to effect one day, and dare I say it, maybe the fandom will be purged of....inexplicable actions performed by horny adults, and cleanse the minds of which they tainted on our young populace. Surely, retribution shall come at hand, and we will have a safe fandom. I almost guarantee it!


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## KD142000 (Nov 26, 2020)

If you want my honest answer (may have already given this, but here we go again)...the short answer is yes.

But that comes with a lot of nuance which I'll now prattle off.

Basically...
People should take more care with how they behave in places where minors are. I've seen a lot of threads and post that border on NSFW territory and that should either not happen or there should be an age barrier stamped on it.

Sex positive or not, there's stuff that kids shouldn't know about until they're of age. And the age as provided by the internet is 18 and over. Yes, teens may go searching into places where there's things that are intended for adults (sure you know what I mean) and will try and find out more about it. In that case, they should go to a professional on the subject and not a furry. Like a sex ed teacher or someone who works in community services.

It's our duty to make sure that kids aren't exposed to things they shouldn't be in the fandom. The parents can handle the rest. I've had rather cutting comments about parents watching their kids online...but parents being OK with their kids being furries is so rare, you know they won't tell their parents. Point is, we've got a duty to protect kids who share our spaces, just like we have a duty to uphold the rules of the site.


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## Stray Cat Terry (Nov 27, 2020)

As it's been said--they should be kept out of adult zones while being allowed to interact freely elsewhere.

But the problem I consider one is that sometimes they may sneak into adult zones for whatever reasons.... And once they crossed the line, that's their business. 

I'd say let's just keep our zones when handling adult stuffs. Any side who crosses the line shall be at fault, I suppose.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 27, 2020)

Uh. Why shouldn't people over 13 be allowed in the fandom?

We going to age restrict the fandom? A bloody hobby/interest? Sorry, but that's one of the dumbest notions I've ever heard of. May as well try to do that with the Star Trek fandom, that shit won't fly over very well. Not only is such a feat literally impossible, it's not on you to go around policing other people's hobbies. Freedom of association and freedom of choice.

As KD said, it's our job, duty and responsibility as the adults to serve as role models on how to behave and act in a normal social setting and sphere. To guide the younger generations that come after us and to protect them from things they are not meant to be exposed to. That's as far as our responsibilities go, the parents will take care of the rest.


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## Miles Marsalis (Nov 27, 2020)

I don't think kids should be banned from the furry fandom. I do think the fandom needs to decide how it divides SFW and NSFW better, but that is another issue. 

Using the forum, as sample group, to my eye, the kids are usually more unproblematic than the adults. I rarely see a kid embroiled in any kind of drama. 

That said, I do think that adults in the fandom need to look out kids more and need to act more responsibly. I think the leaders of fandom events and sites need to be more mindful of abuse and indoctrination of minors.


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## KD142000 (Nov 28, 2020)

The matter of HOW to separate it so that adults can talk freely about adult things out of earshot of minors is mostly covered, but not completely.

I think adults should have their own spaces where they don't have to worry about censoring themselves for a PG13 rating and at the same time, kids should have their own spaces where they don't have to worry about exposure to things they shouldn't see or hear.

Would like to note that some adult members don't like interacting with minors, mostly because they just don't gel. And that is fine, of course.

Shutting the fandom off to anybody, especially due to things out of their control like their age, isn't the way to go, in my opinion.

I think a lot of people, minors and adults alike would appreciate some separation. Perhaps blocking minors from adult-only spaces, similar to how Discord uses tags, would be a nice addition.

Then there's the matter of how one proves what age they are and the obvious issue with asking everybody for identification (at least, it's viewed as an issue to some, not myself personally). I believe it's perfectly legal and reasonable to be asked for documentation to prove how old you are, as this will greatly reduce the risk of minors being exposed to adult content. However, I can also understand some may feel this very intrusive to their personal information and will say it's not a good idea.

Either way, TLR...
The fandom should let adults be adults and kids be kids. It's possible to mitigate risk and reward and shutting out minors isn't the way to go, imo.


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## Mop (Nov 29, 2020)

If I had to guess, a lot of us probably became interested in the furry fandom as kids ourselves. I did at least, and I know that if someone told me to leave and not come back until I was 18, there's no chance I would have followed that. 

While it's an unfortunate reality that there are creeps on the internet, this is not something exclusive to the furry fandom. 

Without being too specific, I did stuff I shouldn't have done when I was a kid after being groomed by a guy who was the leader of a clan in a video game I played, completely unrelated to the fandom. This shit is pervasive everywhere on the internet where people can remain anonymous and face no consequences, and it's sticking around so long as there are creeps and easily-manipulated kids within proximity of each other. 

I'd tend to agree with some other posts that the focus should be on creating dedicated spaces that are appropriate for kids, rather than trying to exclude them from participating altogether. Another important component is speaking out against creepy people and reporting them when necessary, as well as educating kids about the red flags to look out for.


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## VeeStars (Nov 29, 2020)

I feel like if you exclude children from the fandom, some will still get in, but then there would be nobody to help them so that would end up being more dangerous.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> It would be more unfair if anyone under 18 wasn't allowed in because you can't control yourself. There are adult spaces for adults to do adult things. This isn't one of them.
> 
> Eh, profanity isn't the biggest issue. I know just as many swear words as any adult but I'm not yelling them all out at thanksgiving dinner x3


Well, one could argue that having minors around the site can (at least) pose some challenges whenever other users may use some harsh language.

As - many parents of these minors may not necessarily want their child(ren) exposed to this type of language. And, if this is a free (an open platform) for minors to utilize like the rest of us - then, it's rather incumbent upon the adults to "watch their language" at least, and *be mindful* of the fact that there are underage users on here.

For the adults on here not to do so - it's rather careless at best, and callously selfish at worst, it could be argued.

And, personally - it is rather ironic in some ways to me also, that - many adults on here often times "take issue" with NSFW content being readily viewable, (and in turn take strides to ban it in all public places) - in order to "protect the children"...... whilst at the same time - have a rather passive attitude when it comes to vulgar language, where people can talk like truck drivers everywhere.

It could be construed as hypocritical - by many of us; to fervently attempt to outlaw one type of inappropriate behavior - whilst having a rather laissez-faire attitude about another type.

Being an adult means you're expected to do the right thing; even if it's inconvenient for you.


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, one could argue that having minors around the site can (at least) pose some challenges whenever other users may use some harsh language.
> 
> As - many parents of these minors may not necessarily want their child(ren) exposed to this type of language. And, if this is a free (an open platform) for minors to utilize like the rest of us - then, it's rather incumbent upon the adults to "watch their language" at least, and *be mindful* of the fact that there are underage users on here.
> 
> ...


Eh, vulgar language is at least passable compared to NSFW. You wanna know how many teenagers swear to all their friends already? All of them. xD.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 1, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Eh, vulgar language is at least passable compared to NSFW. You wanna know how many teenagers swear to all their friends already? All of them. xD.


Hmm.... language matters...... how one speaks matters. And how one (who is an adult) conducts themselves, also matters.

One should, as the adult - ("set the example" for younger people to follow) by conducting themselves appropriately, number one..... and also - be able to articulate themselves well enough without using profanity, number two..... as - being a good verbal orator often times involves using a bit of tact as well; whenever one discusses his/her views (with an unknown audience).

Bad language is often times seen as simple bad manners, by many people...... (especially when minors are in the area and are involved in the discussions).

And - the adults who simply don't care about this, and ignore this - should be ashamed of themselves really, as - it's incumbent upon them to do the right thing.


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## Bluefiremark II (Dec 7, 2020)

Here's the thing about furries. Its everywhere. Think about it. Egyptian gods? Furry. Company mascots like geico? Furry. School mascots? Furry. 

KIDS ANIMATED CARTOONS! Furry!!! 

We live in a world obsessed with connecting with animals, we are all furries deep down, the difference is how much you think about and or act upon it. Some, just see the mascots shows etc. Egyptians were part of religion, and us.. we use it as roleplay, characters.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 7, 2020)

Children, maybe. Teenagers who waltz into our spaces to tell us what to do, absolutely not.


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## SenderWolf (Dec 7, 2020)

I was the victim of an internet predator when I first joined the fandom at... 15? 16? years old. It nearly killed me then, and has caused me issues with real relationships and friendships ever since.  My parents had no idea what was going on. I was medicated against my knowledge trying to fix it.

I don't blame 'the fandom' for it.
I could have met a predator anywhere. Though I was more vulnerable there because I felt more at ease and had few boundaries. 

So, I would say the same rules apply as any other internet fandom.


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## fsendventd (Dec 8, 2020)

I think this is an incredibly complicated question, honestly. As someone well under the age of 18 myself I'm obviously biased towards saying yes, but... at the same time I'm not really sure. 
I had this horrid experience with this sociopath stalker who was tied to the Sonic fandom (which in turn sort of led me here) on Discord about a year ago. He said he was my friend but anybody who knows the story will tell you he really wasn't. He emotionally shattered me several times. It took me until only a couple months ago to finally get him banned from all the servers I'm in and all his alts disabled. Those are the sort of people I think the fandom needs to be worried about, more than anything. Sure there are some lewd folks, but I think if you understand that's an element of the fandom and try to avoid them you can. Some of the people my closer online friends know get a bit NSFW at times, they get warned about it. 
If you're unintentionally exposed to it then it's the fault of the person who exposed you to it, and they should probably end up on some sort of list for doing that. If you intentionally expose yourself to it then it's your own fault for ruining your own innocence, and you should end up on a list for doing _that_. The fandom is a huge community, I don't think keeping track of the worst offenders would be impossible. Of course, there will always be people who'll slip through, but you can't get everyone. Age verification via ID is a good start, that's what one of the servers I'm in does. I don't think it's a matter of if we can control that side of the fandom, it's a matter of if we're willing to try. 
And... from what I can tell, a lot of us aren't. You'd rather just kick all of us younger furs out so you can do your nasty stuff, instead of welcoming us into such an amazing community. I've been a better person ever since I discovered all this. I wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## oappo (Dec 9, 2020)

Don't really care either way because age isn't something super relevant most of the time. Though I do think the furry fandom/this website could be a lot better with its content separation. 

That said, if I were a parent, I wouldn't want my kids here. I don't want to get into a rant about the furry community, but there's a relatively large amount of bad people in this fandom compared to other places I've been and part of the reason is because this fandom thrives off drama.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 9, 2020)

fsendventd said:


> If you're unintentionally exposed to it then it's the fault of the person who exposed you to it, and they should probably end up on some sort of list for doing that. If you intentionally expose yourself to it then it's your own fault for ruining your own innocence, and you should end up on a list for doing _that_.


If someone gets their rocks off exposing minors to adult materials, absolutely they need to be told off. But I don’t think every case is intentional, and busting someone’s chops over a simple accident/honest mistake isn’t productive. If anything it leads to antipathy towards minors, since the accident couldn’t have happened unless they were around.

Putting people on “lists” is not a good answer, though, IMO. At _best_ it creates a situation where people won’t live down past bad decisions and there’s no reason/incentive to change. More probable, based on my experience, is that people would take someone’s presence on such a list as an excuse to make their life miserable. Witch hunts and harassment/bullying aren’t cool regardless of who is being targeted.

That’s not even touching on how “lists” pretty much invariably end up getting people added to them over a trifle. It’s hard enough already for people to restore an undeservedly tarnished reputation. (Scientific fact: Falsehoods spread faster and wider than truth online.)



fsendventd said:


> Of course, there will always be people who'll slip through, but you can't get everyone. Age verification via ID is a good start, that's what one of the servers I'm in does.


It’s up to every individual whether they’re comfortable sharing their ID with people on the Internet, but it is basically textbook “don’t do this,” with a few exceptions.

Since I used to be staff, Dragoneer has seen a scan of my driver’s license, and that’s fine. Sony needed a copy of my ID to help me recover my PS Network account after they had a huge password reset, and that’s also fine. FA asking for ID to lift restrictions after someone’s been caught lying about their age to access NSFW content is justifiable.

But as someone who has a pretty unique name, I would be extremely vulnerable to doxxing if I wasn’t careful about who gets my personal information. If I had to show ID to be part of a furry community, I’d simply not join. I’ve faced harassment/hate campaigns before and if someone with access to my ID was taken in by that, who knows whether I’d have been safe.


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## JuniperW (Dec 9, 2020)

Everyone and their grandma knows that media aimed at children often involve anthropomorphic animal characters, so I understand why kids would find the furry fandom interesting. For younger furries, sites like Animal Jam are ideal, and _not _FurAffinity.

The problem is that when minors use sites like FurAffinity , they _will _be exposed to inherently sexual content. I’m often afraid of checking my notifications when in public, even when I have the SFW filter on. You wouldn’t show a picture of a scantily-clad busty fox in public, yet that’s apparently both SFW and okay for a kid to see. Don’t get me started on the “tame” fetishes. A submission being “tame” doesn’t change the fact that someone made it so them and others could get off to it. That’s not inherently a problem - what _is _the problem is that children will see it. They’ll potentially get drawn into a rabbit hole (no pun intended) and end up in the darkest corners of the fandom.

With that being said, not every thirteen-year-old fur automatically frequents F-List and Bad Dragon. I think we can make this a welcoming place for minors if (and that’s a big if) we take responsibility, properly tag our submissions, and rat out the predators. It’s also the responsibility of a parent to make sure their children don’t run into harmful stuff online.

As for me, I try to make sure everything I write is properly marked as mature on FurAffinity if need be. I’m thinking of putting some stricter measures in place on my website although I have no idea how I’m going to do that. Well, I do already have a zero-tolerance policy on anything that might lead to the exploitation of minors. If the site gains enough traction, I might have to step up and implement more rules - which is fine by me.


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## JuniperW (Dec 9, 2020)

So uh, TLDR, FurAffinity isn’t safe for kids - not for now at least. They’re better off sticking with Warrior Cats and WolfQuest.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 10, 2020)

JuniperW said:


> So uh, TLDR, FurAffinity isn’t safe for kids - not for now at least. They’re better off sticking with Warrior Cats and WolfQuest.


It isn't really safe anywhere though, one could argue..... and FA is just *one site* out of thousands out there, that can be potantially troublesome for minors..... and so, taking some precautions *regardless* of where one is, is always a good idea, in any case..... by labeling one's content (that is publicly posted) appropriately, marking them the right way (with the proper rating), and so on.
--------------------------
And for many adults out there (who have children), some of us do hold the belief also - that minors often times shouldn't be left alone, on internet sites (such as this one) *at all* without being supervised.... given that they may be potentially exposed to inapporpriate materials, at any time.

And, (personally) - I do think that belief system does have some credence to it..... as if I was a parent myself, I'd want to know where my child is hanging out, and what type of content is on there, at all times..... for both their personal safety - and my own peace of mind as well.


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## NitroFastFur (Dec 13, 2020)

Yes, but I think people needs to be aware of minors at conventions and behave appropriately. Goodness knows there are people out there just itching to see unsavory behavior in anything they see as 'odd' even if it's not there.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 13, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> It isn't really safe anywhere though, one could argue..... and FA is just *one site* out of thousands out there, that can be potantially troublesome for minors..... and so, taking some precautions *regardless* of where one is, is always a good idea, in any case..... by labeling one's content (that is publicly posted) appropriately, marking them the right way (with the proper rating), and so on.


It's worth noting that most sites are responsive to issues regarding minors on their platform. In many cases, it's the sole thing that is guaranteed to get an immediate moderator or administrator response. Much of the drama over the Tumblr was regarding issues concerning minors at the core along with issues regarding pornography on the platform.


NitroFastFur said:


> Yes, but I think people needs to be aware of minors at conventions and behave appropriately. Goodness knows there are people out there just itching to see unsavory behavior in anything they see as 'odd' even if it's not there.


I've never been to a furry convention, but I've heard sometimes there are adult activities at them. If that is the case, there is good case that minors shouldn't be at the convention or that maybe those activities shouldn't be at the convention.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Dec 13, 2020)

Kids should defiantly stay off FA, but I would say they have the Sonic fandom. My problem is not the kids wanting to be in the furry fandom, it's only natural for characters designed for kids, (even if to go into Loony Toons and whatnot) for them to have interests. It's instead the sheer amount of sick crap that you see out there that even as an adult I myself vomit at. The problem is for any "kid friendly" furry website, there will always be those narcissistic sick fucks who ruin it with their out there porn art. That is why I believe filters play a key role in art, but then again a lot of lazy assholes don't filter their own art, and of course there's those idiots who think that it's "okay" to make certain art like feet and whatnot.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 13, 2020)

JuniperW said:


> So uh, TLDR, FurAffinity isn’t safe for kids - not for now at least. They’re better off sticking with Warrior Cats and WolfQuest.





Jaredthefox92 said:


> Kids should defiantly stay off FA, but I would say they have the Sonic fandom. My problem is not the kids wanting to be in the furry fandom, it's only natural for characters designed for kids, (even if to go into Loony Toons and whatnot) for them to have interests. It's instead the sheer amount of sick crap that you see out there that even as an adult I myself vomit at. The problem is for any "kid friendly" furry website, there will always be those narcissistic sick fucks who ruin it with their out there porn art. That is why I believe filters play a key role in art, but then again a lot of lazy assholes don't filter their own art, and of course there's those idiots who think that it's "okay" to make certain art like feet and whatnot.


I'm going to provisionally say that Fur Affinity could do more to protect children on its platform and seems to be doing more as of late. But I think expecting the moderators to do everything on that front is somewhat irresponsible and unreasonable; Fur Affinity community members also need report inappropriate content and bad actors on both the main site and here.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Dec 13, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I'm going to provisionally say that Fur Affinity could do more to protect children on its platform and seems to be doing more as of late. But I think expecting the moderators to do everything on that front is somewhat irresponsible and unreasonable; Fur Affinity community members also need report inappropriate content and bad actors on both the main site and here.



That doesn't mean you should just let it happen. FA is WAY WAY WAY worse than DA, even with DA's piss poor staff. At least there is not um you know, on DA. It's mostly caught and users get punished. On FA, it's a whole other ballpark. I fear if people did report it, there would be witch hunts because that person just so happens to be popular, (spoiler warning: They have white knights who jack off to that and don't want their 'fixers' to get in twuble.) While here it's more moderated, the main site is ABYSMAL, even for things that would be burnt at the stake on Deviantart. I get it, the mods are mods and have life, but the community needs to see itself for what's going on here.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 13, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> That doesn't mean you should just let it happen. FA is WAY WAY WAY worse than DA, even with DA's piss poor staff. At least there is not um you know, on DA. It's mostly caught and users get punished. On FA, it's a whole other ballpark. I fear if people did report it, there would be witch hunts because that person just so happens to be popular, (spoiler warning: They have white knights who jack off to that and don't want their 'fixers' to get in twuble.) While here it's more moderated, the main site is ABYSMAL, even for things that would be burnt at the stake on Deviantart. I get it, the mods are mods and have life, but the community needs to see itself for what's going on here.


I wasn't saying it should be allowed to happen; I acknowledge there are problems and Fur Affinity seems to be taking recently to address those problems, like how we have a Minor Protective Services moderator on here now and someone who is mainly concerned with Code of Conduct enforcement. It'll take some time to see how effectively these steps are here, but those are credible steps that deserve some support.

As for what you said about popular artists in the fandom, it shouldn't matter if you are popular or not; if you dabble or traffick in underage pornographic art, you should be held accountable by both the platform moderators and the platform community. I wouldn't call that a witch hunt.


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## Deleted member 127940 (Dec 13, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I'm going to provisionally say that Fur Affinity could do more to protect children on its platform and seems to be doing more as of late. But I think expecting the moderators to do everything on that front is somewhat irresponsible and unreasonable; Fur Affinity community members also need report inappropriate content and bad actors on both the main site and here.


 What do you mean by "bad actors"?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Dec 13, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I wasn't saying it should be allowed to happen; I acknowledge there are problems and Fur Affinity seems to be taking recently to address those problems, like how we have a Minor Protective Services moderator on here now and someone who is mainly concerned with Code of Conduct enforcement. It'll take some time to see how effectively these steps are here, but those are credible steps that deserve some support.
> 
> As for what you said about popular artists in the fandom, it shouldn't matter if you are popular or not; if you dabble or traffick in underage pornographic art, you should be held accountable by both the platform moderators and the platform community. I wouldn't call that a witch hunt.



There should be a purge of artwork as well, there's a lot of old art that people who have left the site can be easily removed. Plus, a major announcement of a zero tolerance policy should be implemented. 

I agree, the problem is that if we go on member witch hunts, there will be those sorry sacks of crap who stick up for these people. Of course, we can all purge them too, but there will be drama. I believe a lot of members should enforce a site wide active neighborhood watch. However, this will lead to strife. This means that we should better the FA community, and damn who all go to the white knighting of these creepers.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 13, 2020)

ASTA said:


> What do you mean by "bad actors"?


Should be common sense given the context of this thread, but I would say that artists who produce underage pornographic art, artists who deliberately and repeatedly mistag their work which include that content, users who have inappropriate contact with minors in line with grooming and luring, users who engage in sexually explicit situations with underage users, and users defend underage pornographic art on either platform.


Jaredthefox92 said:


> There should be a purge of artwork as well, there's a lot of old art that people who have left the site can be easily removed. Plus, a major announcement of a zero tolerance policy should be implemented.
> 
> I agree, the problem is that if we go on member witch hunts, there will be those sorry sacks of crap who stick up for these people. Of course, we can all purge them too, but there will be drama. I believe a lot of members should enforce a site wide active neighborhood watch. However, this will lead to strife. This means that we should better the FA community, and damn who all go to the white knighting of these creepers.


I feel a major announcement could be option, but I also see loads pedophiles coming out of the woodwork to defend underage pornographic content on the content, as I'm told has happened in the past on here. A smarter approach would probably just be to quietly ramp up enforcement and removing inappropriate content.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Dec 13, 2020)

The real question, why should the site cares if these creepers revolt? They're clearly illegal and shouldn't be on the site in the first place, if FA grows a proverbial pair and actually makes the announcement, why should the mods care about these sick degenerates? The site should grow a spine and take a stand. You're only losing vile people.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 13, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> The real question, why should the site cares if these creepers revolt? They're clearly illegal and shouldn't be on the site in the first place, if FA grows a proverbial pair and actually makes the announcement, why should the mods care about these sick degenerates? The site should grow a spine and take a stand. You're only losing vile people.


In principle, they shouldn't. In practice, moderating an outcry of users defending underage pornographic art is going to be a nightmare and most users here probably don't want to people defending this stuff, myself included.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Dec 13, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> In principle, they shouldn't. In practice, moderating an outcry of users defending underage pornographic art is going to be a nightmare and most users here probably don't want to people defending this stuff, myself included.



Sometimes you have to pull out the weeds. Only completely and utterly stupid people would defend this if an policy was implemented, I'm not saying that people should start losing their profiles, but if they continue after an announcement is discussed then it's their fault. Any group supporting this is clearly one that should be jettisoned out of the site. FA should be under no circumstances liable to have to comply with such an angry mob of sickos. It will be hard, but it's a bitter pill.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 13, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Sometimes you have to pull out the weeds. Only completely and utterly stupid people would defend this if an policy was implemented, I'm not saying that people should start losing their profiles, but if they continue after an announcement is discussed then it's their fault. Any group supporting this is clearly one that should be jettisoned out of the site. FA should be under no circumstances liable to have to comply with such an angry mob of sickos. It will be hard, but it's a bitter pill.


I want to cut this short, so I'll say in, in principle, Fur Affinity should take a hard line against underage pornographic art and make an announcement with replies disabled. How they handle the forum drama surrounding the decision can vary, but that much I agree with you on.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 13, 2020)

Since mainsite moderation has come up:
There _is_ already strong policy against work depicting minors in sexual situations. Old work violating rules _is_ removed (with escalated penalties compared to other first-time offenses) - it wasn’t long ago we saw someone take to the forums to complain about that fact. Almost 40 million submissions have been posted in the time FA has been around (submissions are numbered sequentially, the most recent when I checked just now was into the 39th million); a complete systematic review of all content still on the site is simply not feasible. If you see violations, report them. That means file a ticket linking to the submission in question and stating what rule(s) you believe it violates. Sometimes borderline content may not be judged the same way by staff as it is by you, and that’s just the way it is - either bring further supporting evidence to the table (such as the artist stating the character is underage) or accept that it wasn’t quite across the line.

Reports won’t in themselves result in witch hunts because only staff will know who reported the submission. At most you’ll get some impotent flailing from the artist if they take the removal personally, but if you don’t go out of your way to tell them it was you they’ll never know you reported them. All they can do at that point is go “who reported me?!”

Regardless of your feelings about the material they produce, though, I think it’s important _not_ to fall to temptation to mistreat people based on the subject matter of their work. Condemning someone based on the very limited understanding you can get through seeing their creative work is not an example to set for younger generations of furries. We can do better than normalizing kink shaming and public name-and-shame responses to “abnormal” but ultimately harmless behavior. Modeling unhealthy behavior for younger generations is realistically more likely to result in future  suffering than the odd bit of, say, non-pornographic inflation art.


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## Astus (Dec 14, 2020)

I've seen kids at conventions before with their parents (which I believe they are required to have there? Not sure where the age limit is for that). I would assume that they're having a good time, especially those who have convinced their parents to buy them a fursuit. The good thing about con space is that typically, NSFW stuff is barred from minors and it's not very easy (if not possible at all) for them to view it in the con area. 

The issue is, no matter how hard you try, kids of any age will be able to see porn. The internet is littered with it, and all it takes is a google search. Doesn't have to be furry, or whatever. They can easily lie about their age on chats if they really want to. That of course leads to issues, especially when there are some major creeps out there. It gets hard to actually police the matter in a sensible way. How would you actually get them to verify their age? ID? I would argue that we would just be making it easier for predators to get to them. People open chats who don't want to share their identity, and kids happen to join those chats; makes it easier for predators to find them (slippery slope I know)

If kids like attending conventions, or looking at SFW artwork of furries; I don't want to take that away from them. Banning them from furry is almost equivalent to saying 'this is 18+ material'. While at the same time, there are some major creeps and art that they should not probably see/interact with when they are young. I personally do not see much of a resolution that can be reached while entertaining both sides of that argument.


On an interesting side note... when I went to Peru for volunteer work; I noticed a lot of childrens art work with sexual body parts. In their country, they apparently don't view bodies/sex the same way we do in the US or the UK. I actually wonder how people from that country would answer the proposed issue


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 14, 2020)

Astusthefox said:


> On an interesting side note... when I went to Peru for volunteer work; I noticed a lot of childrens art work with sexual body parts. In their country, they apparently don't view bodies/sex the same way we do in the US or the UK. I actually wonder how people from that country would answer the proposed issue


How taboo it is to speak about and/or depict genitalia (I assume that’s primarily what you mean by “sexual body parts”) is a sliding scale and each country/culture will sit in its own place on that scale, in its own way. Nudity taboos, and by extension also taboos about depicting nudity, are very much learned.

That doesn’t mean that children’s nudity should be sexualized, obviously, nor that it must be appropriate to expose children to sexualized nudity (that’s a separate cultural taboo, though probably in most cultures related, as some part of nudity taboo seems to come from the perception that nudity is innately sexual). I don’t think that it’s necessarily a good idea to reduce the inclusion of minors in furry spaces to a matter of NSFW/SFW content, though. There’s plenty of aspects of human interaction, which have very little if any relation to sex or nudity, that may influence whether one considers the inclusion of others appropriate for a space.


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## Astus (Dec 15, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> How taboo it is to speak about and/or depict genitalia (I assume that’s primarily what you mean by “sexual body parts”) is a sliding scale and each country/culture will sit in its own place on that scale, in its own way. Nudity taboos, and by extension also taboos about depicting nudity, are very much learned.
> 
> That doesn’t mean that children’s nudity should be sexualized, obviously, nor that it must be appropriate to expose children to sexualized nudity (that’s a separate cultural taboo, though probably in most cultures related, as some part of nudity taboo seems to come from the perception that nudity is innately sexual). I don’t think that it’s necessarily a good idea to reduce the inclusion of minors in furry spaces to a matter of NSFW/SFW content, though. There’s plenty of aspects of human interaction, which have very little if any relation to sex or nudity, that may influence whether one considers the inclusion of others appropriate for a space.


From what I was told, it wasn't taboo to talk about genitalia while I was there. It apparently is just part of your body to them. It goes into what you said; they don't contribute nudity with sexuality the same way we do. At least that's what I was told, I don't know how accurate that info is, or if it varies between the cities and the country... As I was in the country side at the time. 

I obviously 100% agree that child nudity should not be sexualized. 

I personally have not been exposed to other cultures, nor do I have children of my own or really thought about it very much. I have (I don't trust where I got the information, so take it with a grain of salt) heard that places which inform/tell kids about their bodies/sex at a younger age tend to have lower rates of sexual assault. I wonder if it's just the culture of those places, or some other factor I do not understand. I am a biologist, not a sociologist/psychologist xD 

You mention "There’s plenty of aspects of human interaction, which have very little if any relation to sex or nudity, that may influence whether one considers the inclusion of others appropriate for a space". Could you possibly elaborate on that a bit? I personally can't see from my perspective why (at least from a furry perspective) kids should be kept out from a furry convention if the con is set up to accommodate both kids and adults. Obviously cons are allowed to be 18+, and my favorite con I've been to actually was 18+ (MCFC).


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 15, 2020)

Astusthefox said:


> You mention "There’s plenty of aspects of human interaction, which have very little if any relation to sex or nudity, that may influence whether one considers the inclusion of others appropriate for a space". Could you possibly elaborate on that a bit? I personally can't see from my perspective why (at least from a furry perspective) kids should be kept out from a furry convention if the con is set up to accommodate both kids and adults. Obviously cons are allowed to be 18+, and my favorite con I've been to actually was 18+ (MCFC).


I’m using “space” pretty broadly, to be clear; it can be a con, but it could just as easily be a Discord server, a forum, a local furmeet, or the fandom in general (as in the thread topic). One of the most obvious applications for physical spaces would be the inclusion of alcohol - you wouldn’t see going out for a few beers with the guys or going to a wine tasting to be sexual and presumably the chances of nudity being involved are next to nil, but you wouldn’t be involving minors. It could also be a matter of the nature of conversation and interactions being such that the people involved perceive that minors would not have the maturity or life experience to fit in or productively contribute to conversation. Or maybe the group is predominantly, say, 40+, and feel it would be awkward or seem creepy to include teenagers.

I’m absolutely a proponent of allowing kids to attend cons, but I understand the reasons why a con might not want to include minors. These range from financial (apparently insurance for an event is significantly more costly when minors will be in attendance at least in some cases) to what programming can be included (I’ve been to all-ages cons with individual panels being 18+, but those would generally be things like life drawing; an 18+ con I attended had a pup play meet-n-greet and a panel on BDSM in fandom. Which admittedly are related to sexuality, but there could potentially be other topics). Even if a programming point might exclude minors, some things might feel inappropriate to list in a con book that will be distributed to minors.

This is all off the top of my head and I’m not fully rested, so there’s no doubt more examples of non-sexual reasons for why a space might exclude minors.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 15, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> It isn't really safe anywhere though, one could argue..... and FA is just *one site* out of thousands out there, that can be potantially troublesome for minors..... and so, taking some precautions *regardless* of where one is, is always a good idea, in any case..... by labeling one's content (that is publicly posted) appropriately, marking them the right way (with the proper rating), and so on.
> --------------------------
> And for many adults out there (who have children), some of us do hold the belief also - that minors often times shouldn't be left alone, on internet sites (such as this one) *at all* without being supervised.... given that they may be potentially exposed to inapporpriate materials, at any time.
> 
> And, (personally) - I do think that belief system does have some credence to it..... as if I was a parent myself, I'd want to know where my child is hanging out, and what type of content is on there, at all times..... for both their personal safety - and my own peace of mind as well.


It's a bit difficult I'd also add; in that it's always better for minors that their parents - simply be "parents", and simply be aware - of where their children are, and what they're up to..... whilst it is incumbent upon the adults (that are not parents to these children) to watch their language, and watch how they conduct themselves - it *also* isn't really incumbent on stranger adults (necessarily) to help "parent your children" for you..... and so - I'd say expecting people to behave is certainly a given, (and that's just being a responsible adult, I think), but also.... parents should take some responsibility for their children online, as well.... and not have too much of a "passive approach" to what they're doing online.


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## lavendercafe (Dec 15, 2020)

Gonna be honest here, found the fandom at around 10. Became a full fledged furry around the same time.

Met some good friends, cool people, some odd people, and downright weird people (who I was friends with btw but was too naive at the time to tell).

That being said, I may or may have not been groomed by the weird "friends". Came out of it okay but kids should be wary of the oddballs if they want to be part of the fandom. But that's just my two cents.


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## MaelstromEyre (Dec 15, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> It's a bit difficult I'd also add; in that it's always better for minors that their parents - simply be "parents", and simply be aware - of where their children are, and what they're up to..... whilst it is incumbent upon the adults (that are not parents to these children) to watch their language, and watch how they conduct themselves - it *also* isn't really incumbent on stranger adults (necessarily) to help "parent your children" for you..... and so - I'd say expecting people to behave is certainly a given, (and that's just being a responsible adult, I think), but also.... parents should take some responsibility for their children online, as well.... and not have too much of a "passive approach" to what they're doing online.


Absolutely.

They cannot constantly monitor EVERYTHING their kid sees or does.

It's still their responsibility to keep their kids safe, even if that means putting parental controls on stuff.  That's what it's there for - so that the world can continue to exist without having to constantly censor itself for the sake of the children.

Same goes for the fandom - when it comes to web sites, or cons or whatever else, kids are welcome BUT that doesn't mean they have to be welcome EVERYWHERE.


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Dec 16, 2020)

The fandom itself? Sure why not.
What matters is what they do and or see, which I think is why not just one side should do stuff like parents but everyone, parents, website hosts and the community itself.
Yes some parts of it is nsfw and not for minors, that’s why we should make sure to reduce the amount that would see it. (Since yknow it’s partly hard to stop all of them.)


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## bbadogg (Dec 16, 2020)

Hard no. I argue that being part of furry fandom is a form of social media with its engagement factor (even if only casual and lurking) and the like. Definitely no social media at such a young vunerable naive age. In fact I think the people regardless of any age should stay off social media for the sake of their mental health.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 18, 2020)

bbadogg said:


> Hard no. I argue that being part of furry fandom is a form of social media with its engagement factor (even if only casual and lurking) and the like. Definitely no social media at such a young vunerable naive age. In fact I think the people regardless of any age should stay off social media for the sake of their mental health.


Hmm..... I'd agree with that up to a point.... that social media can be toxic, and that's always been the case, since it started..... and for minors - most of the vitriol we often see - they're probably better off without dealing with (and frankly, some adults are probably better off without it also). But - turning off the computers entirely isn't really practical, in our modern reality, in all honesty.

And so - again, just being a good parent (and a responsible public adult) are the best techniques we can use probably - to protect minors online, from inappropriate materials, I think.
-------------------------------


Connor J. Coyote said:


> It's a bit difficult I'd also add; in that it's always better for minors that their parents - simply be "parents", and simply be aware - of where their children are, and what they're up to..... whilst it is incumbent upon the adults (that are not parents to these children) to watch their language, and watch how they conduct themselves - it *also* isn't really incumbent on stranger adults (necessarily) to help "parent your children" for you..... and so - I'd say expecting people to behave is certainly a given, (and that's just being a responsible adult, I think), but also.... parents should take some responsibility for their children online, as well.... and not have too much of a "passive approach" to what they're doing online.


And.... (come to think of it) - I should probably add, that just because it's a parents job to "be a parent" - it doesn't necessarily excuse bad behavior in public (either in the real World, or online) - by adults either. Thus - one hand should really be washing the other here, and adults (without children) should "mind their manners", and show some consideration for the underage users around.


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## Trowdiant (Jul 8, 2022)

Every child is unique. Everyone is interested in different topics on the Internet, and everyone copes with the dangers differently. There is no universally correct way to tell children about internet safety. You must find ways to interest the child in this topic and help him understand what to do. You can do it with the help of games with questions in the form of a confidential conversation. Together with the child, agree on several basic Internet rules. For young children, these rules should be clear and easy to follow.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jul 8, 2022)

the adults in the fandom should learn to keep it in their god damn pants and then we wouldn't have to question if it's ok for kids to be here or not. 

outside if that,it's not anyone else's problem if kids are out looking for the porn but you shouldn't have to use fucking safe search every time you want to do anything in this fandom that doesn't involve straight up porn.


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## Rimna (Jul 8, 2022)

No one should be allow in the fandom tbh, but adults should learn how to be responsible. Like holy shit it isn't that difficult to not talk about adult topics with underage people.


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## LameFox (Jul 8, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> outside if that,it's not anyone else's problem if kids are out looking for the porn but you shouldn't have to use fucking safe search every time you want to do anything in this fandom that doesn't involve straight up porn.


That sounds like an inevitable result of both adult and general furry content using a lot of common key words for things like species, names of characters or settings, terms like "furry" or "anthro". Adult stuff might have a few additional key words describing acts or fetishes, but you'd have to intentionally tell the search engine to exclude those.


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## LameFox (Jul 8, 2022)

I'm curious what kind of rating you think that animal would receive in traditional media? Would safe search even block it? Pretty sure I've seen scarier things (and definitely subjects with more gravity) in PG13 films and games.

Frankly, I don't consider it a problem that children should use safe search. In my view they should generally be using it on the internet anyway—I frequently get (real) nudity, porn and even gore in my results searching for the most random ordinary things. It's a bit baffling to me why you'd want to disable filters specifically meant to block that kind of thing and then judge the results according to how much of it you see.

That said, personally I already don't complain if people think furry content is a fetish. I'm not worried how they feel about it, or about me.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jul 8, 2022)

LameFox said:


> I'm curious what kind of rating you think that animal would receive in traditional media? Would safe search even block it? Pretty sure I've seen scarier things (and definitely subjects with more gravity) in PG13 films and games.
> 
> Frankly, I don't consider it a problem that children should use safe search. In my view they should generally be using it on the internet anyway—I frequently get (real) nudity, porn and even gore in my results searching for the most random ordinary things. It's a bit baffling to me why you'd want to disable filters specifically meant to block that kind of thing and then judge the results according to how much of it you see.
> 
> That said, personally I already don't complain if people think furry content is a fetish. I'm not worried how they feel about it, or about me.


i never said it was the worst thing ever,just that it was a little too easy to find. 

the problem isn't that kids should use safe search: my problem is that this fandom has a lot of porn and such (and damn well knows it) but instead of trying to be less horney all the time,people just brush it off and say "then use safe search" as if it's the world's fault they can't keep it in their pants (and this extends past even the internet). 

honestly,i'm seriously thinking about just saying fuck it and leaving the fandom as a whole since it honestly feels everyone in it is some pre-pubescent kid who just learned what happens if you play with yourself enough and it feels kind of gross to be around. and who knows? maybe it would be for the best to just leave the fandom to do whatever the fuck it wants while not feeling like i need to at least TRY to change things (that clearly not a single person thinks is even a problem) while also not having to be lumped together with what clearly actually IS one big fetish that i was just too naive to realize because no one want's to own up to it. i love furry stuff but there is no "community" here for me,nor do i want any part of what's being offered. 

anyway,point is that if you have to ask if kids should be allowed then the answer is no because if the fandom WAS safe for kids to be around then you wouldn't have to ask because it would be obvious.


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## Foxridley (Jul 8, 2022)

Safe search filters by keywords, though, right? So it won’t work with stuff that isn’t properly tagged, which is another issue. Hell, I got straight up porn on Google images for a cartoon.


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## LameFox (Jul 8, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> i never said it was the worst thing ever,just that it was a little too easy to find.
> 
> the problem isn't that kids should use safe search: my problem is that this fandom has a lot of porn and such (and damn well knows it) but instead of trying to be less horney all the time,people just brush it off and say "then use safe search" as if it's the world's fault they can't keep it in their pants (and this extends past even the internet).


This sounds like two totally different issues. If you're worried images like that are too easy for children to find, filtering them seems like a reasonable solution.

On the other hand, if you're worried that people simply like sex more than you are personally comfortable with, whether it can be avoided or not, naturally it's not going to solve that. Probably nothing will solve that.



QueenSekhmet said:


> honestly,i'm seriously thinking about just saying fuck it and leaving the fandom as a whole since it honestly feels everyone in it is some pre-pubescent kid who just learned what happens if you play with yourself enough and it feels kind of gross to be around. and who knows? maybe it would be for the best to just leave the fandom to do whatever the fuck it wants while not feeling like i need to at least TRY to change things (that clearly not a single person thinks is even a problem) while also not having to be lumped together with what clearly actually IS one big fetish that i was just too naive to realize because no one want's to own up to it. i love furry stuff but there is no "community" here for me,nor do i want any part of what's being offered.


This may sound callous, but if the furry fandom as a whole is causing you that much distress I seriously would just stop interacting with it. I know people get really invested in it sometimes but ultimately you can still like things without being part of a community around them, and socialize in other circles instead. If you don't enjoy being part of it then of what use is being there?



QueenSekhmet said:


> anyway,point is that if you have to ask if kids should be allowed then the answer is no because if the fandom WAS safe for kids to be around then you wouldn't have to ask because it would be obvious.


I don't really know where you're going with that statement. People can not know a safe thing is safe lol.

In any case, I think when it comes to any online content children up to their early teens should probably be supervised, and after that, I think their parents really need to sit down and talk to them about the internet and the kind of things they might find on it (even without looking), and what to do or not do. Make sure if they see some fucked up things they know they can talk about it, and know what kind of interaction to be wary of (including such mundane things as 'don't install that'). No system is perfect and I've seen (including when I was a minor) way worse things online than what furries get up to.


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## LameFox (Jul 8, 2022)

Foxridley said:


> Safe search filters by keywords, though, right? So it won’t work with stuff that isn’t properly tagged, which is another issue. Hell, I got straight up porn on Google images for a cartoon.


I'm not entirely sure, but there are definitely holes in anything like that. Things get through by accident or on purpose often enough. This is a big part of why to me the internet as a whole is something kids probably shouldn't just by default be given access to, though I realize plenty of parents are not realistically going to be that attentive.


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## JozeffTech (Jul 8, 2022)

I joined the fandom at around 14, but became active at approximately 16. I encountered no people I can indicate as creepy or dangerous. Also, I sometimes heard that seeing NSFW content (not including extreme fetishes, obviously) is very harmful to people of this age, but honestly, I NEVER understood how the hell that works. I've read Haruki Murakami when I was twelve, and I'm still alive.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jul 8, 2022)

LameFox said:


> This sounds like two totally different issues. If you're worried images like that are too easy for children to find, filtering them seems like a reasonable solution.
> 
> On the other hand, if you're worried that people simply like sex more than you are personally comfortable with, whether it can be avoided or not, naturally it's not going to solve that. Probably nothing will solve that.
> 
> ...


all and all my issue is less that kids could see it (i honestly don't really care if they do or not since it's not my problem and even LESS my problem if a kid is just lying about their age) and more that there is just such a ABONCINCE of it that i feel like that's all there is to the fandom (well,that and a LOT of gay shit but that half isn't the problem since i'm pans/non-binary). like,how often do people on this site alone actually talk about things with talking animals in them (you know,the stuff this fandom is based around) or even just furry art without things like porn being brought up? hell,how many of the RPs aren't just straight up cybersex? not a lot. and the fact that people seem to like it that way is what really grinds my gears about the whole thing: i just want to talk about different shows and shit i like and maybe do some SFW RPing with my fursonas so i can get some use out of them as characters so my problem isn't that the porn exists or even that kids might see it,but rather that it's ALL i'm seeing and everyone else is just settled with it. 

and ya,if this is what the furry "community" (i honestly hate using that word for anything) is then i really don't want any part of it and would much rather just go and talk about whatever furry related stuff i want with whoever,furry or not and just exist as someone that is into SOME of the same stuff as furries but isn't one and has nothing to do with whatever the furries are doing at any given moment. i really have no business being a furry: even if we may both like talking animals,that's about the only thing i have in common with the fandom and clearly it's not enough.


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## Bababooey (Jul 8, 2022)

My thread after 2 years:


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## MonsterTeddy (Jul 9, 2022)

Not going to read every page so maybe someone already pointed this out, and I know this thread got necro'd but... The issues we encounter with children are not unique to this fandom, and even if you did want to somehow bar children from the furry fandom, doing so seems almost impossible.



Spoiler



Let's consider platforms and communities with a lot of children...
YouTube, TikTok, and almost every social media regardless of its age restrictions. It's way too easy to view content on these platforms without verifying your age first, and "age verification" is still as low-bar as putting in a birthday. Sometimes you don't even need an account to view content, and the only barrier between a kid and adult material is a "Yes, view profile" button (_cough_Twitter_cough_).

YouTube Kids is a thing but aside from disabling comments on videos for children, it doesn't do much to assure the content itself is age appropriate. In order for something to be fully reviewed, it needs to be reported by someone, and that someone could be the hundred thousandth person to watch that video. This is the case with most platforms. I don't think anyone's found a better solution yet.

Roblox, Minecraft, and even games specifically for kids like Club Penguin and Animal Jam (old examples, I know, I haven't been a kid in awhile >:/) aren't much safer. Usually they have a chat filter and some parental controls, but every filter has loopholes and anything advertised as "for kids" is automatically a target for people _looking for kids. _Anyone who's played games like Animal Jam can probably tell you about the e-dating and not so child-friendly roleplay that goes on in those games, despite the filters.

Roblox is especially egregious because it's made up of user-generated content and the community has developed its own slang for all kinds of inappropriate stuff. Visit a few clothing stores and you'll find a pair of pants with a whale-tail in the back or straight up bras and lingerie. Robloxian High School is a roleplay game that got turned into a dress up game because of its tools that let you adjust almost every aspect of your avatar and accessories. Pop in there for a few minutes and you'll probably find someone who modified some accessories to give their avatar the biggest breasts and butt they possibly could. Oh, and emotes are _always_ being misused, even official ones. Just look up "sleep".

The thing is, this inappropriate stuff isn't just coming from adults. I think it's worth remembering that a lot of teens are hormonal weirdos that will definitely contribute to the creation of inappropriate content in ANY community. Look at K-Pop, DSMP, and anime. Again, this isn't exclusive to furries.

So... Considering all of that, and the fact that many people get involved in the fandom_ because of children's media with animals and anthros..._

I'm pretty sure minors with an interest in talking animals are going to find what they're looking for no matter what - that includes sexual content. Telling them they can't be part of the fandom won't stop them from being part of the fandom any more than Roblox's chat filter has stopped teens from finding fancy new ways to call each other the f-slur.



TL;DR
The real issue is ADULTS taking advantage of all the ways the internet fails to protect children. Groomers are going to go where kids are, whether it's the furry fandom or somewhere else entirely. We can't hold minors accountable for their own safety by telling them which communities are and are not "safe" for them. The responsibility falls on us every time. That means holding _other adults_ accountable and finding better ways to protect kids than by hoping they won't lie about their birthday.


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## PercyD (Jul 9, 2022)

So.
I say yes, because its just a hobby obviously--

But they should not be allowed into adult spaces. Period.


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## Jazefex (Jul 29, 2022)

Yes but no. If yes they should me monitored and parent should have a very long and educated rant about the reality of the fandom. If the parent does a good job then deffo yes. If the parent cant do that the child could be a target to something serious and harmful.


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## PercyD (Jul 29, 2022)

Jazefex said:


> Yes but no. If yes they should me monitored and parent should have a very long and educated rant about the reality of the fandom. If the parent does a good job then deffo yes. If the parent cant do that the child could be a target to something serious and harmful.


I think thats the same of... life in general.
Like as a parent you need to educate your child. 

I'm not disagreeing. I just think this is a low bar. Like, "Satan tripping over it and spraining they ankkies", low.


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## Crimcyan (Aug 7, 2022)

Honestly I'm not sure. A few years ago back around summer 2018 me and a few others came across a server that was primarily run by 15 year olds. Our group was around 16-18. One person from our group ended up getting a staff position on that server and they found a role for a hidden channel. In that hidden channel it was primarily kids between the ages of 14-17 year old and a single 19 or 20 year old. The entire channel was just full of the 19 year old sending nudes to these kids full aware there is some as young as 14 years old in it as the 14 year old said thier age and the 19 year old would ask for nudes back which some of these kids do. Our group reported what was happening to discord and other sources but nothing happened at all.

Flash foward to a few months ago I come across a server where that 19 year (24 now) old  was staff on. I dm'd the owner privately a beware of that guy with proof and the owner just told me to report it to the cops, banned me and still has that creep as staff.

I sometimes feel like I should do a public beware on that guy but I almost feel like nothing will come of it just like the server owner did nothing.

So I don't really find the fandom safe for children imo. As that's just one of the many encounters I've had with absolute sick people and these people will always be present. No matter what you try to do about them they will always still be around with a following of brainless supporters who worship people they dont even know personally as a god


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## Smityyyy (Aug 7, 2022)

I agree. This fandom is full of really, _really _gross and dangerous shit. And it’s also filled with people who downplay it or ignore the fact that, statistically, predation rates are higher in our fandom than general population.

Not just to lean in on statistics, but I’ve witnessed minimum of one pedophile/predator per community I have engaged in. We do a horrible job casting these folks out. And this might be a personal nitpick… but I find the idea of teenagers and people who are 10-15 years older than them being “friends” incredibly strange. Especially given the fact that most minors engaging in this fandom don’t do so with parental permission — meaning numerous minors have “friends” that are significantly older than themselves and their guardians have no clue. Imagine how the general non-furry population would react to this behavior if seen? If we don’t want to have a reputation for predators, it’s our job to call it out *when we have definitive proof*.

I was groomed in this fandom. My boyfriend was groomed in this fandom. All of my close friends were groomed in this fandom. I’ve spent a lot of time on the internet in fandom spaces and besides MLP/Anime fandom areas — I have _never _seen so many predators. If your initial reaction to hearing that we have a major problem with predators is to get defensive and say to ignore it — I think you should consider your positions and morals a little more.

Also, when I was a teen, I saw zero problem with befriending adults. Now that I’m much older… I couldn’t imagine being friends with a teen. An independent adult realistically shouldn’t have much, if anything, in common with children. That in itself is a red flag. It’s common knowledge that you should ideally steer clear of adults who can’t make friends their own age. Anybody defending adults and kids having private relationships without their parents knowing… sometimes discussing NSFW or suggestive topics — you really need to reevaluate how much time you’re spending on the internet. At best… adults should be having friendly, public relations with minors that are significantly younger than them.

I understand many in this fandom struggle with autism and/or other social skill deficits. However, this is _not _an excuse to engage in, ignore, or defend predatory behavior. When you see minors being groomed or engaging in inappropriate conversations with adults, it is your _responsibility _to speak up. As adults, it’s our job to keep kids safe. Children don’t yet have the maturity to accurately assess how appropriate their adult-child relationship is. They also do not know how to properly set nor enforce boundaries.

Please, I want to see this fandom be a friendlier place for children. We need to be more critical of inappropriate relations. Please speak up when you have *proof *of abuses. And at the bare minimum, stop trying to deny and sweep child endangerment under the rug.

So while I don’t support banning minors from our fandom spaces — I discourage them from joining as it’s abundantly clear that many adults do not know appropriate boundaries nor how to facilitate a safe environment around minors.


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## Miles Marsalis (Aug 7, 2022)

Crimcyan said:


> Honestly I'm not sure. A few years ago back around summer 2018 me and a few others came across a server that was primarily run by 15 year olds. Our group was around 16-18. One person from our group ended up getting a staff position on that server and they found a role for a hidden channel. In that hidden channel it was primarily kids between the ages of 14-17 year old and a single 19 or 20 year old. The entire channel was just full of the 19 year old sending nudes to these kids full aware there is some as young as 14 years old in it as the 14 year old said thier age and the 19 year old would ask for nudes back which some of these kids do. Our group reported what was happening to discord and other sources but nothing happened at all.
> 
> Flash foward to a few months ago I come across a server where that 19 year (24 now) old  was staff on. I dm'd the owner privately a beware of that guy with proof and the owner just told me to report it to the cops, banned me and still has that creep as staff.
> 
> ...


The Discord Public & Safety Team has received an overhaul since then. Try resubmitting the complaint with screenshots proving what was going on. They should react differently this time around.


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## LameFox (Aug 7, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> ...the fact that, statistically, predation rates are higher in our fandom than general population.


Wait, someone has genuinely measured that? Is it free/online?


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## quoting_mungo (Aug 7, 2022)

LameFox said:


> Wait, someone has genuinely measured that? Is it free/online?


I suspect fandom, due to its largely online nature, may also have a larger percentage of _documented_ cases. Not going to speak on what the rates compared to general population might be, overall, even if I’d like to see the source of those statistics before accepting them as fact. I can’t for the life of me remember proper English terms for what Swedish calls “mörkertal” (“darkness number” - the portion of whatever that goes unreported), but I do think it’s a factor worth considering; is it roughly the same, is it taken into account for statistics, etc.

I do believe that at least a portion of inappropriate interactions between adults and minors within fandom are non-malicious, and that it’s disingenuous to roll them in with deliberate manipulation/predation. Infantilizing a 16-17-year-old that initiates suggestive or explicit conversations with someone in their early-to-mid twenties is also not a solution. It doesn’t help when some people use accusations of pedophilia or grooming as a go-to insult or way to defame others. (Especially considering how these terms have historically and not-so-historically been used against the queer community.)

Like, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I was consuming some adult work, and creating a very limited amount of adult art, before I turned 18, though most if not all after reaching local AoC. I also got hell of a better sex education from (non-furry, though still online) friends in their early-to-mid-20s at 15-16 than what school was giving me (talking “school taught outright inaccurate information that in some cases was verging on homophobic”), and I don’t think that must be automatically wrong/inappropriate. I don’t believe any of these experiences were in any way harmful to me, and in some cases these older friends also gave me a much-needed reality check when I was being teenagerly overzealous about a couple of issues. I _also_ had a couple of what in hindsight were iffy at best interactions, though none of those were far as I can tell based on age, and to me they were learning experiences, nothing worse.

I accept that this will not be everyone’s experience, and I’m not going to tell anyone that they’re wrong about their own experiences. But I similarly expect the same courtesy regarding my own experiences in return.

*EDIT:* I also want to add this:
When I was on staff I saw at least one or two cases of people that were arrested for and/or convicted of sexual crimes involving minors (I don't remember if I ever knew what the exact charges were) receiving incredibly abusive shouts. These were people who were _in custody_ at the time, so were not going to see those shouts for a long time if ever. And far as I'm concerned, leaving graphic messages about how someone should off themselves, deserves to be abused in prison, doesn't deserve to live, etc., is not in any way looking out for the victims of predation/grooming. It's just being shitty. Maybe it feels vindicating for some people in the moment, but... just no.

By all means report inappropriate behavior to whatever the appropriate authority/ies are. Support and educate youth you suspect are being victimized. That's addressing the problem. Attacking people who've already been caught addresses nothing and changes nothing.


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## PercyD (Aug 7, 2022)

Crimcyan said:


> Honestly I'm not sure. A few years ago back around summer 2018 me and a few others came across a server that was primarily run by 15 year olds. Our group was around 16-18. One person from our group ended up getting a staff position on that server and they found a role for a hidden channel. In that hidden channel it was primarily kids between the ages of 14-17 year old and a single 19 or 20 year old. The entire channel was just full of the 19 year old sending nudes to these kids full aware there is some as young as 14 years old in it as the 14 year old said thier age and the 19 year old would ask for nudes back which some of these kids do. Our group reported what was happening to discord and other sources but nothing happened at all.
> 
> Flash foward to a few months ago I come across a server where that 19 year (24 now) old  was staff on. I dm'd the owner privately a beware of that guy with proof and the owner just told me to report it to the cops, banned me and still has that creep as staff.
> 
> ...


Nah.
This is a societal problem. Because let me tell you something, if we let these people keep getting their way it doesn't matter what fucking fandom it is. They are predators and they invade spaces for children.
Do a beware. Report it to the cops. The need to protect spaces for kids is just as important as protecting spaces for adults.


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## Baron Tredegar (Aug 7, 2022)

PercyD said:


> Nah.
> This is a societal problem. Because let me tell you something, if we let these people keep getting their way it doesn't matter what fucking fandom it is. They are predators and they invade spaces for children.
> Do a beware. Report it to the cops. The need to protect spaces for kids is just as important as protecting spaces for adults.


Yeah, I agree with this. It is less of a furry problem and more of a problem with spaces that attract a lot of children. I have heard of games like Roblox and Fortnite having rings of predators that have been discovered. This is the main reason why I disagree with the people who want to create a separate "sfw" furry fandom (Ive heard the term fluffy fandom thrown around for this). It would just attract more predators.
I do agree that minors shouldnt really be in the fandom until they are at least in their later teens due to the abundance of porn and fetishes.


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## LameFox (Aug 7, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> I suspect fandom, due to its largely online nature, may also have a larger percentage of _documented_ cases. Not going to speak on what the rates compared to general population might be, overall, even if I’d like to see the source of those statistics before accepting them as fact.


I'm curious about this for a lot of reasons—for one thing, furries are international, so who is the general population they're measured against?—but mostly I'm just surprised somebody out there would decide to study it lol.


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## Green_Brick (Aug 7, 2022)

I voted "no" purely on the principle, and fact, that I do not think that their parents would be able to educate them on the facts of what happens on the internet. Though that applies to everything and not the furry fanbase. We hear stories of kids running up their parents credit cards when playing games because they do not have a fundamental grasp on how such transactions work, or the real world impact it has on their parents when blowing such amounts of money.

*However with that being said...*

... if the parents are responsible to properly teach their kids about the internet, how it works and what can happen on there, and if the children are mature enough *and* responsible enough to understand reality and handle it, then I have no issues, whatsoever, letting kids join the furry community, letalone the internet, in general. They would be smart enough to know how to stay safe and have fun online until they become mature enough as young adults to make adult decisions.


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## PercyD (Aug 7, 2022)

Baron Tredegar said:


> Yeah, I agree with this. It is less of a furry problem and more of a problem with spaces that attract a lot of children. I have heard of games like Roblox and Fortnite having rings of predators that have been discovered. This is the main reason why I disagree with the people who want to create a separate "sfw" furry fandom (Ive heard the term fluffy fandom thrown around for this). It would just attract more predators.
> I do agree that minors shouldnt really be in the fandom until they are at least in their later teens due to the abundance of porn and fetishes.


I don't want to straight up ban a sfw space either. This is coming from someone who was in the fandom at like, 12, 13. -- Even younger if you count my Warner Brother and Disney fandoms. 
All these things can and should exist. It's just a hobby. And every hobby has it's fetishes. I'm sure kinky knitting exists. Body condom cosies I'm absolutely sure they are a thing-

But we're not banning children from learning how to knit, are we? No. We shouldn't be keeping them from making art and enjoying cartoons and whatever either. The simpliest thing is to be vigilant in all of our spaces for predators. Setting boundaries. Checking in on the kids. Having age appropriate conversations about safety, consent, and telling a trusted adult whats going on.

I was a little girl on the internet at like, 9. But I was trained up in what my parts are, that nobody was allowed to touch them. And if somebody tries, I remove myself from the situation and get to a trusted adult right-right away. Tell them whats going on.
And I cannot tell you the amount of times I had to use that knowledge. Literally. Some of this shit my mom had to remind me what happened. At school. Online. Just fucking existing as a little girl in this fucking shit society.

So. Us adults need to start making this society less shit. ASAP.


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## quoting_mungo (Aug 7, 2022)

Baron Tredegar said:


> This is the main reason why I disagree with the people who want to create a separate "sfw" furry fandom (Ive heard the term fluffy fandom thrown around for this). It would just attract more predators.





PercyD said:


> I don't want to straight up ban a sfw space either. This is coming from someone who was in the fandom at like, 12, 13. -- Even younger if you count my Warner Brother and Disney fandoms.


IMO calling it a separate fandom is silly - that's basically just an extension of the weird animosity clean artists used to show against NSFW artists (I'm sure it still happens, but I've not seen it in a few years now so hopefully that means there's less of it now). I also think there's a world of difference between "this is a SFW furry space" and "this is a furry space for kids." The latter is inviting trouble, certainly. The former... not gonna say the trouble couldn't crop up, but as long as it's clearly presented as a space where adults who want to create and consume SFW content and have SFW conversations are just as welcome as minors, it would at least not have a giant "free lambs for the taking!" sign on it, yanno?


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## PercyD (Aug 7, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> IMO calling it a separate fandom is silly - that's basically just an extension of the weird animosity clean artists used to show against NSFW artists (I'm sure it still happens, but I've not seen it in a few years now so hopefully that means there's less of it now). I also think there's a world of difference between "this is a SFW furry space" and "this is a furry space for kids." The latter is inviting trouble, certainly. The former... not gonna say the trouble couldn't crop up, but as long as it's clearly presented as a space where adults who want to create and consume SFW content and have SFW conversations are just as welcome as minors, it would at least not have a giant "free lambs for the taking!" sign on it, yanno?


Honey. These people wait outside freggin schools. Shit, some of them get jobs inside. It doesn't matter if it had a sign or not.

What I'm saying is, we need to be focusing on identifying predators and putting a stop to it. Not, like, debating on where kids should be allowed to be. The later answer is obvious. Children don't belong in adult spaces. Predators don't belong in kid's spaces.

Now am I saying we need to let minors on FAF? lol, heck no~~. We just had a 4chan attack like a few weeks ago. I don't let em into my server.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 7, 2022)

Crimcyan said:


> Honestly I'm not sure. A few years ago back around summer 2018 me and a few others came across a server that was primarily run by 15 year olds. Our group was around 16-18. One person from our group ended up getting a staff position on that server and they found a role for a hidden channel. In that hidden channel it was primarily kids between the ages of 14-17 year old and a single 19 or 20 year old. The entire channel was just full of the 19 year old sending nudes to these kids full aware there is some as young as 14 years old in it as the 14 year old said thier age and the 19 year old would ask for nudes back which some of these kids do. Our group reported what was happening to discord and other sources but nothing happened at all.
> 
> Flash foward to a few months ago I come across a server where that 19 year (24 now) old  was staff on. I dm'd the owner privately a beware of that guy with proof and the owner just told me to report it to the cops, banned me and still has that creep as staff.
> 
> ...


What the shitting fuck. You know what? I'm not surprised.
That just gives me flashbacks to way back when people found out Anthrocon put a convicted pedophile on it's staff handling the* ID'S* of congoer's. And the head staff ignored valid complaints.
That's a rough thing to stumble across in a server, man...
It really sours everything and makes you cynical.


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## quoting_mungo (Aug 7, 2022)

PercyD said:


> Honey. These people wait outside freggin schools. Shit, some of them get jobs inside. It doesn't matter if it had a sign or not.
> 
> What I'm saying is, we need to be focusing on identifying predators and putting a stop to it. Not, like, debating on where kids should be allowed to be. The later answer is obvious. Children don't belong in adult spaces. Predators don't belong in kid's spaces.


Schools aren't exactly the best example there; they have the biggest freaking "here be kids" signs out there by their nature. 

The point I'm making is that if you have a space that's meant explicitly as a for-kids thing, it will give more easy-pickings signals than if it's a SFW thing where adults are also expected to be. Doesn't mean it won't have predators, but does mean there will be more adults there to potentially spot predatory behavior. (And, honestly, kids' spaces come with their own concerns of "who the hell moderates this mess and what makes them suitable for doing so?") I don't want kids interacting with predators any more than you do - that's why I'm skeptical regarding online fandom spaces aimed specifically at kids.


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## Baron Tredegar (Aug 7, 2022)

PercyD said:


> I don't want to straight up ban a sfw space either. This is coming from someone who was in the fandom at like, 12, 13. -- Even younger if you count my Warner Brother and Disney fandoms.
> All these things can and should exist. It's just a hobby. And every hobby has it's fetishes. I'm sure kinky knitting exists. Body condom cosies I'm absolutely sure they are a thing-
> 
> But we're not banning children from learning how to knit, are we? No. We shouldn't be keeping them from making art and enjoying cartoons and whatever either. The simpliest thing is to be vigilant in all of our spaces for predators. Setting boundaries. Checking in on the kids. Having age appropriate conversations about safety, consent, and telling a trusted adult whats going on.
> ...


Thats good you were raised up to identify when someone was being a creep and that your body is your own.

The only sex education I had growing up was some homophobic homeschool bs and I didnt even know what sex was until I was 17. There are a lot of parents in the US who have done a really shitty job with their kids sex education and how to be safe online. These are the kind of kids predators have a easy time getting to.


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## Lioedevon427 (Aug 7, 2022)

I don’t think that like young young kids should be in the spaces but likely around 16+ when they have a better understanding of the internet? I know I got more involved with the fandom around 17ish and I def made some friends through it and got more interested in art-
I do think there should be an age limit on FurAffinity tho because even some of the “sfw” is super uncomfy-
I really wish I could block out all the feet and inflation shit on there and just see the art, I’m glad my friends have come from Artfight and Instagram and I only made a FA like a year or 2 ago


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## PercyD (Aug 8, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> Schools aren't exactly the best example there; they have the biggest freaking "here be kids" signs out there by their nature.
> 
> The point I'm making is that if you have a space that's meant explicitly as a for-kids thing, it will give more easy-pickings signals than if it's a SFW thing where adults are also expected to be. Doesn't mean it won't have predators, but does mean there will be more adults there to potentially spot predatory behavior. (And, honestly, kids' spaces come with their own concerns of "who the hell moderates this mess and what makes them suitable for doing so?") I don't want kids interacting with predators any more than you do - that's why I'm skeptical regarding online fandom spaces aimed specifically at kids.


I'd have to agree to this tbh. Most of the time, the moderators of these children only spaces usually end up being predators-

The more that I think about it, would there ever be like... a family safe space for furries? Probably not. Technically we got Disney for that. Other than that, I wouldn't bring my kids near. It's more for like, teenagers looking for express themselves. Making spaces for them where they can't be preyed upon while they do their thing.


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## Tendo64 (Aug 8, 2022)

This thread seems to have been revived so I guess I'll give my thoughts again, as they've changed slightly--

I feel like the people who say "the furry fandom is extremely adult-only" only think this because their encounters with it are mainly fur affinity and this forum site, or various other furry-centered websites. And, yes, I honestly think Fur Affinity should be adult-only. I think me joining it when I was a minor was unsafe and I had creepy experiences multiple times. And even with safe-browsing enabled, child unfriendly content is absolutely everywhere in the browsing feature, from suggestive poses that barely pass as SFW simply because there's no parts showing, or the various fetish art posted. As for the forums, I participated in conversations I honestly shouldn't have been when I was a kid and, while not NSFW, conversation in this forum is still often mature and I think better suited not for children to be participating in.

That said, like said in my last post, Fur Affinity does NOT take up the entirety of the furry fandom by any means. There's so many different subsections of the fandom on various social media, and lots of SFW furry spaces that are perfectly fine, like Chicken Smoothie or Art Fight. They can also watch multiple furry YouTubers which are safe for minors. I think those places are harmless.

My opinion is that the websites centered around furry stuff specifically always seem to attract a more adult userbase, why I'm not sure, but it's an observation I've seen. Maybe it's the art aspect that causes this (like with DeviantArt), or maybe it's that any website that allows hard NSFW will inevitably not really be able to be both a SFW child-friendly website and a NSFW one unless it's INTENSELY STRICTLY moderated (and, honestly, FA is very lax about it). Places with furry spaces not centered around furries specifically are often more SFW in my experience though, so either way I think kids can be allowed into the furry fandom. I think the question should be _which parts _rather than trying to ask about the fandom as a whole as if it's this organized community when it isn't. The furry fandom on this site and Art Fight or Chicken Smoothie are practically entirely two different fandoms


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## LameFox (Aug 8, 2022)

Tendo64 said:


> I think the question should be _which parts _rather than trying to ask about the fandom as a whole as if it's this organized community when it isn't.


Yeah, that's really the only practical way to look at it IMO. A fandom as a whole is not something anyone can disallow people from being in.

WRT art sites attracting mostly an adult audience, I think to some extent it's because they're an older format. There are a lot of teen furries out there posting art to things like discord servers (maybe telegram too? I don't use it) and I think if you're growing up today those kinds of apps as well as social media sites are probably where you'd get started.

Also, after you leave your late teens and early 20s, it gets pretty hard to relate to kids. I don't hate them or anything but at this stage in my life I have very little to say to them. I've joined and left so many furry discord servers because it turns out they're just filled with teens and there's not a single conversation there I'm interested in having. I suspect a lot of the non-mandatory segregation stems from something like that.


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## quoting_mungo (Aug 8, 2022)

PercyD said:


> The more that I think about it, would there ever be like... a family safe space for furries? Probably not. Technically we got Disney for that. Other than that, I wouldn't bring my kids near. It's more for like, teenagers looking for express themselves. Making spaces for them where they can't be preyed upon while they do their thing.


There were a couple of mothers that had a YouTube channel that I think covered safe participation in fandom for kids or something like that. Don't know if they're still going; I saw them mentioned on here literal years ago. Most of the, like, single-digits-years-old kids I know of in fandom are the kids of furries, whose parents seem to do a good job of chaperoning them. It _is_ nice to see kids enjoy themselves at cons (and I say that as someone who doesn't really care for small children - I still care _about_ them because they're human, and seeing other people regardless of age obviously but non-disruptively having a good time is always nice), but that's always under direct adult supervision. 

I guess that's what the family safe furry space would be - RL events where parents and kids get together. I'm sure there's some areas where setting up a picnic playdate for like 4-5 furry families would be viable. Nothing is a guarantee, but that shouldn't be riskier than any few families getting together to let their kids hang out.

Also seen some people in other communities who let their young children interact online by proxy - "here's Molly's take on this art meme!" Molly doesn't have her own account, and parent can choose what comments to relay, if any.


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## Smityyyy (Aug 8, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> There were a couple of mothers that had a YouTube channel that I think covered safe participation in fandom for kids or something like that. Don't know if they're still going; I saw them mentioned on here literal years ago. Most of the, like, single-digits-years-old kids I know of in fandom are the kids of furries, whose parents seem to do a good job of chaperoning them. It _is_ nice to see kids enjoy themselves at cons (and I say that as someone who doesn't really care for small children - I still care _about_ them because they're human, and seeing other people regardless of age obviously but non-disruptively having a good time is always nice), but that's always under direct adult supervision.
> 
> I guess that's what the family safe furry space would be - RL events where parents and kids get together. I'm sure there's some areas where setting up a picnic playdate for like 4-5 furry families would be viable. Nothing is a guarantee, but that shouldn't be riskier than any few families getting together to let their kids hang out.
> 
> Also seen some people in other communities who let their young children interact online by proxy - "here's Molly's take on this art meme!" Molly doesn't have her own account, and parent can choose what comments to relay, if any.



I have nothing of importance to say other than how sweet I find it to see furry families. Like it’s adorable to go to cons and see a furry couple with their kid. Especially when the kid has their own little suit. I don’t know… just very sweet to me. What an awesome childhood that has to be for someone!


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## Eremurus (Aug 8, 2022)

One gander at the main Fur Affinity site, is probably a good example of why we should not allow children into a community that _insists_ on sexualizing itself at every turn.


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## Just_A_Tundra (Aug 8, 2022)

It is a valid concern. When children are getting into the fandom, they may not expect to see a lot of the nsfw stuff that does go on. I do believe kids should be allowed into the fandom, but they should also be advised that not everything in the fandom is going to be family friendly, or safe, or appropriate. The same goes with almost any other group. I'm darn sure that every fandom has its ups and downs when it comes to acceptable and appropriate stuff. So, there are always going to be things a kid shouldn't see. Even in things like Star Trek, or even other seemingly "harmless" fandoms.

I think there is a thing called a certain law number from a certain board.

Kids getting into the fandom just need to be warned. Same with all other fandoms.

 Also, when it comes to grooming, I never experienced it, so I'm not sure. I do think it is a disgusting act that all people should be weary of.


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## PercyD (Aug 9, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> There were a couple of mothers that had a YouTube channel that I think covered safe participation in fandom for kids or something like that. Don't know if they're still going; I saw them mentioned on here literal years ago. Most of the, like, single-digits-years-old kids I know of in fandom are the kids of furries, whose parents seem to do a good job of chaperoning them. It _is_ nice to see kids enjoy themselves at cons (and I say that as someone who doesn't really care for small children - I still care _about_ them because they're human, and seeing other people regardless of age obviously but non-disruptively having a good time is always nice), but that's always under direct adult supervision.
> 
> I guess that's what the family safe furry space would be - RL events where parents and kids get together. I'm sure there's some areas where setting up a picnic playdate for like 4-5 furry families would be viable. Nothing is a guarantee, but that shouldn't be riskier than any few families getting together to let their kids hang out.
> 
> Also seen some people in other communities who let their young children interact online by proxy - "here's Molly's take on this art meme!" Molly doesn't have her own account, and parent can choose what comments to relay, if any.


At that point, I wouldn't call that a 'space'.

Thats a private gathering of families. And also, thats nice. It sounds fun. Let the kinder play. 

-Any way, the difference is that a space is open to the public to interact with. -Where the public is a certain demographic or, whatever. Thats why I'm thinking about Disney or Warner Brothers. Its opened to the public, but family themed.


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## PercyD (Aug 9, 2022)

Eremurus said:


> One gander at the main Fur Affinity site, is probably a good example of why we should not allow children into a community that _insists_ on sexualizing itself at every turn.


Because the community is mainly an adult space? -As soon as you have an NSFW button, thats an adult space. Period. Children cannot be there.


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## quoting_mungo (Aug 9, 2022)

PercyD said:


> At that point, I wouldn't call that a 'space'.
> 
> Thats a private gathering of families. And also, thats nice. It sounds fun. Let the kinder play.
> 
> -Any way, the difference is that a space is open to the public to interact with. -Where the public is a certain demographic or, whatever. Thats why I'm thinking about Disney or Warner Brothers. Its opened to the public, but family themed.


I was thinking of it as a family-oriented equivalent of a furmeet, but fair distinction. I’d still maintain that many cons _can_ be family friendly as long as kids have adult supervision (which FAIK most cons that allow children require for con goers under a certain age). 

Local adults-only (tbh probably at least in part for liability/insurance reasons - they had pretty strict conduct rules) con actually did an open house for a few hours one of the days and kids and parents were seemingly having a blast meeting fursuiters and whatever.


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## Eremurus (Aug 9, 2022)

PercyD said:


> Because the community is mainly an adult space? -As soon as you have an NSFW button, thats an adult space. Period. Children cannot be there.



Fantastic- glad we are on the same page.


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## Kinguyakki (Aug 9, 2022)

Well, yes, in public PG rated places and situations.  I mean, there's no reason a parent shouldn't be able to bring their kid to a shopping mall or art museum, but it's also the responsibility of the parent to monitor what their kid is doing.  There may be some good souls in the fandom who will try to keep a minor from getting into bad situations.  The fandom needs people like that.  However, kids still need parents who are involved at some level.


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## Lordgwen (Aug 15, 2022)

Depends for me, for im 16 myself.little kids are abig nono. Theyre annoying and preachy. And people use them being in our community to say that were 



Spoiler: Tw



pedos that force/manipulate young kids to wear animal costumes


! I got that from personal experience! Also. To much nsfw stuff for people that young-  the other things are that they ask questions thatre wayyyy to personal since theyre little, and finally, my personal motto: *IF THEY ARE SINGLE DIGITED THEY HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE OF WHAT THEYRE TRULY DOING, AND DONT KNOW HOW IT COULD AFFECT THEM LATER IN LIFE!*


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## quoting_mungo (Aug 15, 2022)

Kinguyakki said:


> There may be some good souls in the fandom who will try to keep a minor from getting into bad situations. The fandom needs people like that. However, kids still need parents who are involved at some level.


I think a lot of adults, especially once you get past like mid-20s or so, will look out for kids when they see something happening that seems like bad news. But it’s not those adults’ _responsibility_ - that lies with their parents (and for late teens, to some degree with themselves). I’m not here to parent your (gen) kids; there’s a reason I don’t want kids of my own. I’m happy sharing my life experiences _on my terms_, and I have reported _a lot_ of minors lying about their age on mainsite over the years, but I’m not anyone’s free Internet babysitter. Ain’t got the spoons for that shit.


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Aug 16, 2022)

Eremurus said:


> One gander at the main Fur Affinity site, is probably a good example of why we should not allow children into a community that _insists_ on sexualizing itself at every turn.


I wouldn't allow a child in Furaffinity site since it's at that point literally an adult website at this point.
The furry fandom can still allow children, and y'know not everyone is a crazed horny [fursona species here] just some sites ain't made for them.

Like I recall hearing of a furry discord that naturally disallows NSFW and tries to keep it an open place for younger furries.
So there's def places out there for 'em too, which is why they're fine to join the fandom, but as always. 
Parents, take a moment to check on your kids, I am no longer asking.

Of course this is also dependent on what we define as "children", is it kids 17 and below? Is it 10 below? Etc.
_If someone already defined it, I didn't see it because I am blind, gay and have only checked this page._



Kinguyakki said:


> There may be some good souls in the fandom who will try to keep a minor from getting into bad situations.  The fandom needs people like that.


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## Troj (Aug 16, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> There were a couple of mothers that had a YouTube channel that I think covered safe participation in fandom for kids or something like that.



Carrie and Joelle, a.k.a. the "Moms of Furries." They haven't posted new content in a bit, but as far as I know, they're still attending cons and remaining active in the fandom. They seem like wonderful humans, and I think they provide a really powerful and useful service by educating parents and others about the fandom and how to navigate it safely.


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## Deleted member 159133 (Sep 3, 2022)

Chomby said:


> I'm curious about what you people think. I know there are a lot of problems regarding predators and such. There's so much adult content in this fandom that I don't know how children can avoid it. My first experience with furries online was bad. I was 14 and both were trying to drag me into the sexual stuff. One catfished me into thinking the were the same age and gender that I was.
> 
> I'm concerned about safety. There are so many furry spaces that don't have a clear line between sfw and nsfw. There isn't a single furry I've asked about this that didn't say they were groomed/creeped on as a young teen.
> 
> ...


I think they would be allowed on the main site BUT with the parent monitoring them because all those site settings on the right are not locked if youre underage.


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## ArjunCFR (Sep 3, 2022)

In my opinion, it's a risk of assuming teenagers can actually be mature enough to know what they're doing. I can assure that the majority of people under 18 cannot control themselves enough to not look at NSFW content. I have been on the art website of Furaffinity for three years now and I've seen a lot of stuff that can make children very uncomfortable, but I have actually controlled myself and have never actually seen any NSFW content ever. I'm not arguing in any case; what I'm saying is it's a risk allowing younger people here. Most aren't going to be mature enough to know they should avoid this kind of content. I, on the other hand, did when I joined years ago simply because of how I grew up, and I'm going to continue avoiding NSFW for the rest of my life no matter how old I am. I made it this far easily, and I will not let the simple option to allow this dirty content tempt me.


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## Kinguyakki (Sep 6, 2022)

ArjunCFR said:


> In my opinion, it's a risk of assuming teenagers can actually be mature enough to know what they're doing. I can assure that the majority of people under 18 cannot control themselves enough to not look at NSFW content. I have been on the art website of Furaffinity for three years now and I've seen a lot of stuff that can make children very uncomfortable, but I have actually controlled myself and have never actually seen any NSFW content ever. I'm not arguing in any case; what I'm saying is it's a risk allowing younger people here. Most aren't going to be mature enough to know they should avoid this kind of content. I, on the other hand, did when I joined years ago simply because of how I grew up, and I'm going to continue avoiding NSFW for the rest of my life no matter how old I am. I made it this far easily, and I will not let the simple option to allow this dirty content tempt me.


I would never assume that teenagers are mature enough to be left to their own devices in the fandom.  They may THINK they're mature enough to make good decisions and stay out of trouble or danger, whether it's online or in meetup/con situations.  They THINK the people they're chatting with online are trustworthy.

If they're lucky, they may be surrounded by adults in the fandom who will genuinely look out for them.  

Sadly, many parents don't really monitor what their kids are doing online, who they're talking to, what they're looking at.  

Teens may be worried about what their parents or other family members think about the furry fandom, which means they're even less likely to talk about their own involvement, even if it has nothing to do with NSFW material.  They think it's something to be hidden, even ashamed of, so they may not tell their family if they are having problems with online stalkers or bullying related to the fandom.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 6, 2022)

Aren't some of your statements antithetical with each other though?
I mean when you say:


ArjunCFR said:


> In my opinion, it's a risk of assuming teenagers can actually be mature enough to know what they're doing. I can assure that the majority of people under 18 cannot control themselves enough to not look at NSFW content.


it could be argued that that paints many younger people (frankly) with a rather broad stroke of the pen..... as there's many teens out there that are minors that can still control themselves enough and act within the boundaries of SFW content only, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, when you basically say that you've been doing the exact same thing in regards to NSFW content:


ArjunCFR said:


> I have actually controlled myself and have never actually seen any NSFW content ever.


..... wouldn't it be fair to say that there's other teens out there (like you) that'd be able to exercise the same restraints that you've done?

And if yes, then... based on that type of situation teens should be allowed to be members so long as they're participating within the the SFW content areas only.



ArjunCFR said:


> what I'm saying is it's a risk allowing younger people here.


So what's the harm? If they're confined to the proper areas of the site then how is that putting them at risk in any way?


ArjunCFR said:


> I made it this far easily, and I will not let the simple option to allow this dirty content tempt me.


And it could be argued that there's others in the community that can do the same thing frankly. 


Kinguyakki said:


> If they're lucky, they may be surrounded by adults in the fandom who will genuinely look out for them.


Isn't that their parents job and not mine though? And, looking out for what? Sexual content? If they're within the SFW realm on the site and within safe  areas of the Fandom, then what's the problem? Isn't it a bit of a fallacy to suggest that there's "dangers" out there and we all have to look out for underage users?

Many of us prefer to not have policies based on fear, and instead prefer to address real credible dangers when they can be proven, frankly.
-------------------
* I'm sorry - I never really bought into the argument (that some make) that being an underage user in the Fandom automatically puts them at risk in some way.


----------



## vickers (Sep 6, 2022)

I made my FA page when I was 14 and I never really thought much of it honestly. I knew there was porn but that's literally just how it is on the internet. Especially back in the day... Like, me and my friends used to send each other a link to meatspin as a prank. The furry fandom isn't anything out of the ordinary when it comes to sexual stuff imho, not when compared to the broader internet, and I don't understand it when people act like it is.

Now if you're talking about conventions, there should definitely be an age gate at certain events, that's for sure...


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## a sleepy kitty (Sep 6, 2022)

I think they should make kid-friendly furry websites for kids who want to be furries.


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## Kinguyakki (Sep 6, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Isn't that their parents job and not mine though? And, looking out for what? Sexual content? If they're within the SFW realm on the site and within safe  areas of the Fandom, then what's the problem? Isn't it a bit of a fallacy to suggest that there's "dangers" out there and we all have to look out for underage users?
> 
> Many of us prefer to not have policies based on fear, and instead prefer to address real credible dangers when they can be proven, frankly.
> -------------------
> * I'm sorry - I never really bought into the argument (that some make) that being an underage user in the Fandom automatically puts them at risk in some way.


It IS the parents' job to keep their kids safe, and teach them online safety.  

Realistically, though, a LOT of parents are failing at that responsibility.  Even today, with all the stories about kids who go missing after meeting an "online friend," there are still parents who just don't pay attention.

Either they're still not aware of the dangers, or they think THEIR kid is going to be smart enough to recognize and avoid online predators or groomers.  They think THEIR kid isn't going to be searching for NSFW materials, or trying to have NSFW conversations.

Is it the JOB of adults in the fandom to protect minors?  Not necessarily - we're not legal guardians or anything.  We don't have to do anything, and we don't have to interact with minors online or at live events if we don't want to.  

It doesn't bother me a bit, though, to see people with any history of grooming or admitting to "interest" in minors being blocked/banned and beware'd from all furry fandom communities.  As adults in the fandom, that IS something we can do to "look out for" the younger members.


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## Troj (Sep 7, 2022)

^^^

I don't think we have to become mentors or babysitters, but it is our shared responsibility to "say something" if we "see something," and to do our small part to try to create a safe, pleasant space for kids and their families. That can be as simple as being willing to smile and welcome a parent and their kid if you see them at a gathering, intervening or seeking help as appropriate if we see an unsafe or uncool situation, being open to answering a parent's good-faith questions about the fandom or the logistics of the gathering, gently steering a minor away from a sussy person at a gathering, or minding your language and conduct when there are impressionable kiddos around.


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## Rimna (Sep 8, 2022)

With the amount of bullshit that transpires here and in the fandom at large on a daily basis, it's adults who shouldn't be allowed in the fandom. Children can usually behave well.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 9, 2022)

Rimna said:


> With the amount of bullshit that transpires here and in the fandom at large on a daily basis, it's adults who shouldn't be allowed in the fandom. Children can usually behave well.


Welp..... if someone feels that way, then it may be time to think about moving on..... if one isn't enjoying it any further than what's the point in staying? ☺

The door's always open, right?


Kinguyakki said:


> It IS the parents' job to keep their kids safe, and teach them online safety.


Right...... but it isn't mine and all the other adults in the community also. But like some other users said - if we "see something" we should "say something", of course..... but not to the point of borderline hysteria where everyone's hyper-sensitive and semi-paranoid all the time, some of us feel.

 Policies based on fear usually don't work out very well; for the community as a whole.


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## Kinguyakki (Sep 9, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Right...... but it isn't mine and all the other adults in the community also. But like some other users said - if we "see something" we should "say something", of course..... but not to the point of borderline hysteria where everyone's hyper-sensitive and semi-paranoid all the time, some of us feel.
> 
> Policies based on fear usually don't work out very well; for the community as a whole.


Not seeing anything here about "borderline hysteria" or "policies based on fear."

I am in favor of age-restricted places at Cons, or online chats/groups that are 18+ mostly because adults like to be able to talk and joke about "adult stuff" without having to censor themselves for the sake of kids. There's really nothing I want to have a conversation about with a 14 year old.  

And that's fine.  There should be plenty of "all ages" furry chats and forums available so that the kids can still have a place to meet other furries online.  Those are also the places that need to be more strictly moderated, to keep OUT the creeps and groomers, or the sort of people who will try to sneak in NSFW posts.


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## MaelstromEyre (Sep 9, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Welp..... if someone feels that way, then it may be time to think about moving on..... if one isn't enjoying it any further than what's the point in staying? ☺
> 
> The door's always open, right?


You sound like the old manager where I work.  A worker, who had been there for many years, made a comment during a meeting about some of the bad management decisions that were taking place.  

The manager said "well, if you don't like it, get another job."  Not surprisingly, that manager didn't last long.  He was fired.

If you don't like the way something is. . .you can stick around and try to make it better, too.

Telling people to leave the fandom is kind of a weak solution.


----------



## Troj (Sep 9, 2022)

Wherever you go, there you are.

There are definitely times to take your ball elsewhere because a given organization, community, or group is a lost cause, but if everybody just defaults to that all the time, the new organizations, communities, and groups we create or join will end up having the same problems as the ones we left.

The extreme and toxic libertarian view that the fandom exists purely for my consumptive enjoyment and I don't gotta do shit for it if I don't wanna is how you get Rainfurrest or Woodstock 99.


----------



## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 10, 2022)

MaelstromEyre said:


> You sound like the old manager where I work.  A worker, who had been there for many years, made a comment during a meeting about some of the bad management decisions that were taking place.
> 
> The manager said "well, if you don't like it, get another job."  Not surprisingly, that manager didn't last long. He was fired.


Telling someone who's apparently unhappy to "vote with their feet" is a realistic response and is a viable option that some may need to think about, if one feels disenchanted. After all, top brass member's of the US Military (for example) often tell lower recruits this all the time; that if one doesn't like the environment and the rules, than he/she is free to dis-enlist, walk away and find other pursuits that may be more beneficial.

I honestly doubt - your old manager was fired simply for telling your colleague to "move on" if he/she felt that the curent position they're in is no longer suitable for them. That's an honest boss; not necessarily a wrong one who made a bad move.


MaelstromEyre said:


> If you don't like the way something is... you can stick around and try to make it better, too.


Well, yes in certain cases..... but whether something like the Fandom (which is what we're talking about here specifically) needs to be made "better" is probably within the eye of the beholder, many of us could argue. 

And thus, other community members may not feel that there's necesarily a problem that warrants us all to refine the way we do things simply because some other members out there are dissatisfied with the status quo and would "do things differently" for everyone if they could.

In my mind, it all comes down to the old saying "you do you" and let "others do others"..... and if that's not possible due to their disenchantment, then perhaps certain communities (like this Fandom) may not be good fit for them overall and they should in turn explore other pursuits; like what a Drill Sergeant may say to a newly enlisted recruit.


MaelstromEyre said:


> Telling people to leave the fandom is kind of a weak solution.


It's the same realistic option that your manager gave your colleague; and in turn, is not something to reject, simply because the message isn't what one wants to hear. Sometimes "un-PC" answers to problems are often times the most simplest and best ones.


Kinguyakki said:


> Not seeing anything here about "borderline hysteria" or "policies based on fear."


Let's be honest..... there are many community members out there and yes - on here, who often times go overboard it could be argued, in their efforts and zeal to protect underage users.... as far as I can tell, no one here thinks children shouldn't be protected in some way. But at the same time, the continuing excuses that we need to "protect the children" is often over-used (it's felt), in many of their efforts when the activites and enjoyment of other members is encroached upon simply because they're in fear of them being exposed to inappropriate content or of the pedo boogeyman that may be in the closet.

If we look at the literally thousands of Fandom members out here - the number of cases of actual proven victimizations is quite small. Those victims should be supported, as I said before:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> No one should discount any of these victimization experiences (as I said above).... and, no one should make excuses (including me) for any of the illegal behaviors described above...... but - we should not in turn, institute knee-jerk "blanket policies" (at the communal level, that may affect us all) based on fear alone - instead of any sound, credible evidence - that an actual imminent threat exists.
> 
> Victims should be supported, certainly....... but - artistic and personal freedoms should be supported also.... which may inadvertently find themselves curtailed, if victims and their advocates fully get everything they want at the policy level.


...... but not to the point where everyone else's enjoyment or consenting adult activites is restricted upon too much either.


Kinguyakki said:


> I am in favor of age-restricted places at Cons, or online chats/groups that are 18+ mostly because adults like to be able to talk and joke about "adult stuff" without having to censor themselves for the sake of kids.


And so are nearly all of us also......


Kinguyakki said:


> There should be plenty of "all ages" furry chats and forums available so that the kids can still have a place to meet other furries online.


Certainly...... it is possible for us as a community to "walk and chew gum" at the same time, where adults can enjoy their thing and minors can also still participate as well.

But........


Kinguyakki said:


> Those are also the places that need to be more strictly moderated, to keep OUT the creeps and groomers, or the sort of people who will try to sneak in NSFW posts.


so long as it's done with a dash of moderation and doesn't unnecessarily encroach on the rights of others that haven't done anything wrong.


----------



## Smityyyy (Sep 10, 2022)

Time for the weekly Connor J. Coyote schizopost guys!! Let’s see what non-existent arguments and morally reprehensible things he’ll defend today!!

Man… and just when I thought the forums had been bland lately


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Sep 10, 2022)

And time for a very toxic response by the looks of it


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## Smityyyy (Sep 10, 2022)

Frank Gulotta said:


> And time for a very toxic response by the looks of it



Cute. Should’ve kept that same energy for the lovely fella who told a member venting his frustrations to “just leave bro.”

Never a dull day around here.


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## Frank Gulotta (Sep 10, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Cute. Should’ve kept that same energy for the lovely fella who told a member venting his frustrations to “just leave bro.”
> 
> Never a dull day around here.


I'm familiar with the same frustration due to toxic behavior like yours, so I can straight out tell you this piece of advice is not a hurtful thing to hear, at least doesn't warrant a chernobyl meltdown.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 10, 2022)

Troj said:


> ^^^
> 
> I don't think we have to become mentors or babysitters, but it is our shared responsibility to "say something" if we "see something," and to do our small part to try to create a safe, pleasant space for kids and their families. That can be as simple as being willing to smile and welcome a parent and their kid if you see them at a gathering, intervening or seeking help as appropriate if we see an unsafe or uncool situation, being open to answering a parent's good-faith questions about the fandom or the logistics of the gathering, gently steering a minor away from a sussy person at a gathering, or minding your language and conduct when there are impressionable kiddos around.


I used to be part of the Smash Bros Community heavy.

A few years ago, the scene was rocked by a deluge of really shitty accusations, many of which ended up being true. Obviously predators take the most fault, but there were so many stories of bystander effect and cowardice. You had certain people who saw the wrong things take place at post tournament parties. Kids being given hard liquor and being around adults with no legal guardians present. Or people who thought it would be ok for 22 year old men to sleep alone in the same hotel room with 15 year old boys. 24 year olds, _on camera_ during tournament streams, getting a little too physical with 14 year olds but passed over as "cute" because the 24 year old was a pretty woman. All of this happened and resulted in exactly what you expect. And the list went on. Many who were aware of the weird behaviors outright said "It wasn't my issue so I bailed or didn't speak up".

There was so much negligence that* fostered a predatory environment to thrive* in plain sight. And it happened away from parents who trusted (wrongfully) that the adults present in a community which welcomes children would make said children's safety paramount.

And they didn't.

It nearly cost some victims their lives and almost destroyed the entire community.
It is 100% everyone's responsibility in any community to make certain they limit the potential for anyone to be exploited. If you are aware of something and turn a blind eye to a vulnerable individual in a clearly inappropriate situation, you are, inarguably, partially responsible for abuse they may suffer. When you can easily stop something, and you _don't_, how can you not share fault?


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 10, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> It nearly cost some victims their lives and almost destroyed the entire community.
> It is 100% everyone's responsibility in any community to make certain they limit the potential for anyone to be exploited. If you are aware of something and turn a blind eye to a vulnerable individual in a clearly inappropriate situation, you are, inarguably, partially responsible for abuse they may suffer.


I think it’s more nuanced than that - I don’t condone letting inappropriate behavior pass without intervention, but I also both feel like a lot of online culture encourages the wrong kind of intervention, and that people should not be automatically judged for silence. Like, I will stand for it all day every day that it’s not right to turn “uh, dude, not cool” into a bullying/mob justice situation. I don’t think it serves any community to create a social climate that includes the idea of there being “acceptable targets,” and especially not if there’s no social pressure to apologize if (more like when) allegations turn out to be false or overblown, or if in the course of speaking out you otherwise behave inappropriately towards someone (e.g. using slurs towards or misgendering the accused).

There’s also a very real possibility that someone (rightly or wrongly) perceives that they would be putting themselves at risk by speaking up. Ideally this wouldn’t be a concern, but realistically it very much could be, depending on the situation. Demanding that someone opens themselves up to being targeted by calling out an influential/big person within a community or else hold blame for that person’s actions is… harsh. (Privately reaching out to someone who is being taken advantage of may be an option, but if the target doesn’t see what’s going on at the time it can still be risky, socially, for pretty much the exact same reasons.)


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## Judge Spear (Sep 10, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> I think it’s more nuanced than that - I don’t condone letting inappropriate behavior pass without intervention, but I also both feel like a lot of online culture encourages the wrong kind of intervention, and that people should not be automatically judged for silence. Like, I will stand for it all day every day that it’s not right to turn “uh, dude, not cool” into a bullying/mob justice situation. I don’t think it serves any community to create a social climate that includes the idea of there being “acceptable targets,” and especially not if there’s no social pressure to apologize if (more like when) allegations turn out to be false or overblown, or if in the course of speaking out you otherwise behave inappropriately towards someone (e.g. using slurs towards or misgendering the accused).
> 
> There’s also a very real possibility that someone (rightly or wrongly) perceives that they would be putting themselves at risk by speaking up. Ideally this wouldn’t be a concern, but realistically it very much could be, depending on the situation. Demanding that someone opens themselves up to being targeted by calling out an influential/big person within a community or else hold blame for that person’s actions is… harsh. (Privately reaching out to someone who is being taken advantage of may be an option, but if the target doesn’t see what’s going on at the time it can still be risky, socially, for pretty much the exact same reasons.)



I'm not implying you should be blasting people on Twitter to "cancel" someone or being boisterously confrontational. What?
Or even making yourself known in the process of assisting a victim for that matter. I left it fairly up in the air what you could do to help a vulnerable individual. Troj already mentioned that there are simple, discreet methods of encouraging safety in a community. And especially online, you have all manner of anonymous outlets to see that someone is safe when you know they're in an inappropriate position. Something as simple as filing a report from a sock is enough.


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 10, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> I'm not implying you should be blasting people on Twitter to "cancel" someone or being boisterously confrontational. What?
> Or even making yourself known in the process of assisting a victim for that matter. I left it fairly up in the air what you could do to help a vulnerable individual. Troj already mentioned that there are simple, discreet methods of encouraging safety in a community. And especially online, you have all manner of anonymous outlets to see that someone is safe when you know they're in an inappropriate position. Something as simple as filing a report from a sock is enough.


I'm speaking broadly - the loud, performative shunning is part of current social climate in certain areas of fandom. Because it is (and also because there's a million other reasons someone may feel seriously uncomfortable intervening in questionable situations), I don't feel it's appropriate to judge people ("you are, inarguably, partially responsible for abuse they may suffer") for not acting to keep strangers safe in every possible situation. Every person is responsible for their own behavior, and while it's nice and a pretty objective good if they look out for others, it's not their duty to be on the lookout all day every day, yanno?

Online spaces are just... hard, sometimes. And furry fandom is arguably a more online than offline space.


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## Rose The Unicorn (Sep 10, 2022)

Interesting question.

I'm not entirely sure.  I say they could be in the furry fandom if they want, there is a good chunk of the community that actually has SFW artwork and stuff.


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## Emberfrost (Sep 10, 2022)

What are we defining as a child here? I know that I'm a youngfur, so I'm pretty biased but I think that eleven and under should not, and once over that age, it's the parent's judgement if their child should be allowed to actively join the fandom.


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## Shiro_Iga (Sep 11, 2022)

Children and family safe can be beneficial for continuing fandom and comes up with new inspirational activities. Inevitably, there are always a new generation.

I’m more worried about toxic intentions or harmful personalities behind these pretty fursuits and fursona. It seems nothing wrong with furry, anime, or any subcultures you can replace with, but the question of virtue.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 11, 2022)

Troj said:


> Wherever you go, there you are.


@Troj BTW - I'm not entirely sure what that means; but if you're in some way cryptically referring to me posting on this thread yesterday, may I remind those that read my postings: is that this is a _public_ forum after all.... and (in my mind) what that means is - is that anyone with a valid account (that's not being sanctioned by the Staff in some way) can log on here at any time...... and make one, or even several comments on any thread they wish so long as it's within the forum's TOS's.

That is the point of a Forum after all. But if my postings are not your forte however, than you're free to ignore them, or block my profile, or...... (if needed) flag it for the Staff for review..... thank you.



Judge Spear said:


> It is 100% everyone's responsibility in any community to make certain they limit the potential for anyone to be exploited.


Preventing someone from being exploited is one thing; having an over zealous babysitter mindset that's on a crusade is quite another. The enjoyment of adults doesn't need to suffer or be thrown out the window for victimizations that aren't necessarily everyone's responsibility.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Preventing someone from being exploited is one thing; having an over zealous babysitter mindset that's on a crusade is quite another. The enjoyment of adults doesn't need to suffer or be thrown out the window for victimizations that aren't necessarily everyone's responsibility.





Judge Spear said:


> I'm not implying you should be blasting people on Twitter to "cancel" someone or being boisterously confrontational. What?
> Or even making yourself known in the process of assisting a victim for that matter. I left it fairly up in the air what you could do to help a vulnerable individual. Troj already mentioned that there are simple, discreet methods of encouraging safety in a community. And especially online, you have all manner of anonymous outlets to see that someone is safe when you know they're in an inappropriate position. Something as simple as filing a report from a sock is enough.


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## KimberVaile (Sep 11, 2022)

I guess somebody out there will always have the burning urge to play devil's advocate or go against the grain. No matter how bad the take is.


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## Smityyyy (Sep 11, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> I guess somebody out there will always have the burning urge to play devil's advocate or go against the grain. No matter how bad the take is.


Especially over and over again. To every post. Feels very defensive to me. But hey, what do I know?


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## TrishaCat (Sep 11, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> it could be argued that that paints many younger people (frankly) with a rather broad stroke of the pen..... as there's many teens out there that are minors that can still control themselves enough and act within the boundaries of SFW content only, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> I mean, when you basically say that you've been doing the exact same thing in regards to NSFW content:
> 
> ...


why are you arguing with a child on a topic that directly talks about them
why are you offended at the idea of someone thinking this community is bad for children?
They're not wrong either, this community in general is too nsfw to be a safe environment for them


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## Bababooey (Sep 11, 2022)




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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2022)

All I'm saying is to place and uphold boundaries and act when someone vulnerable is being verifiably preyed on.
I don't think either of those are difficult to do or understand.
It should be -impossible- to disagree even mildly with that.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 13, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> All I'm saying is to place and uphold boundaries and act when someone vulnerable is being verifiably preyed on.


It could be said though, that putting up "boundaries" in place and then upholding them (onto minors) is the sole responsibility of the parent(s) though, and not so much on the community as a whole.

Preventing them from being exposed to inappropriate content though is no brainer; but that responsibility falls on the website Admins, and not so much on other users to police everything when there's no Staff around.
----------------------------------
No one wants to see anyone victimized though, that's one thing everyone agrees on.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 13, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> It could be said though, that putting up "boundaries" in place and then upholding them (onto minors) is the sole responsibility of the parent(s) though, and not so much on the community as a whole.
> 
> Preventing them from being exposed to inappropriate content though is no brainer; but that responsibility falls on the website Admins, and not so much on other users to police everything when there's no Staff around.
> ----------------------------------
> No one wants to see anyone victimized though, that's one thing everyone agrees on.


If you surround yourself in adult content/tendencies and you know that minors share your platform, you need to do everything you can to keep them away from you and your 18+ content. And you should have zero interaction privately with minors.
This is what I meant by boundaries. *Obviously.*


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## Troj (Sep 13, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> @Troj BTW - I'm not entirely sure what that means; but if you're in some way cryptically referring to me posting on this thread yesterday, may I remind those that read my postings: is that this is a _public_ forum after all.... and (in my mind) what that means is - is that anyone with a valid account (that's not being sanctioned by the Staff in some way) can log on here at any time...... and make one, or even several comments on any thread they wish so long as it's within the forum's TOS's.
> 
> That is the point of a Forum after all. But if my postings are not your forte however, than you're free to ignore them, or block my profile, or...... (if needed) flag it for the Staff for review..... thank you.



Uh, no.

All it means that we typically take our history, our personality, our desires, our values, our hang-ups, our beliefs, our attitudes, our tendencies, our habits, our assumptions, and our patterns with us into new relationships and new situations, _unless and until _we decide to change something. I was musing on the fact that some people have a tendency to look for the perfect community or perfect relationship, not realizing that at least some of the problems they've been constantly running up against reside within themselves.

If you see that as a direct and insidious message intended specifically or solely for you, then maybe you have a guilty conscience, and maybe that should prompt some reflection on your part.



			
				quoting_mungo said:
			
		

> I'm speaking broadly - the loud, performative shunning is part of current social climate in certain areas of fandom.



Oh, aye--and it's not just our fandom, of course! People in general have trouble with proportion, I think, and there's a common tendency among people to either look the other way to avoid rocking the boat OR go overboard because they're being driven by fear, hurt, anger, group-think, peer pressure, a desire for clout, a desire for attention, or the like and/or because they just don't know how to navigate these kinds of dicey situations.



			
				quoting_mungo said:
			
		

> I think it’s more nuanced than that - I don’t condone letting inappropriate behavior pass without intervention, but I also both feel like a lot of online culture encourages the wrong kind of intervention, and that people should not be automatically judged for silence. Like, I will stand for it all day every day that it’s not right to turn “uh, dude, not cool” into a bullying/mob justice situation. I don’t think it serves any community to create a social climate that includes the idea of there being “acceptable targets,” and especially not if there’s no social pressure to apologize if (more like when) allegations turn out to be false or overblown, or if in the course of speaking out you otherwise behave inappropriately towards someone (e.g. using slurs towards or misgendering the accused).
> 
> There’s also a very real possibility that someone (rightly or wrongly) perceives that they would be putting themselves at risk by speaking up. Ideally this wouldn’t be a concern, but realistically it very much could be, depending on the situation. Demanding that someone opens themselves up to being targeted by calling out an influential/big person within a community or else hold blame for that person’s actions is… harsh. (Privately reaching out to someone who is being taken advantage of may be an option, but if the target doesn’t see what’s going on at the time it can still be risky, socially, for pretty much the exact same reasons.)



Well said! All valid critiques and observations. 



			
				Judge Spear said:
			
		

> All I'm saying is to place and uphold boundaries and act when someone vulnerable is being verifiably preyed on.
> I don't think either of those are difficult to do or understand.
> It should be -impossible- to disagree even mildly with that.



Agreed!


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## MaelstromEyre (Sep 14, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Telling someone who's apparently unhappy to "vote with their feet" is a realistic response and is a viable option that some may need to think about, if one feels disenchanted. After all, top brass member's of the US Military (for example) often tell lower recruits this all the time; that if one doesn't like the environment and the rules, than he/she is free to dis-enlist, walk away and find other pursuits that may be more beneficial.
> 
> I honestly doubt - your old manager was fired simply for telling your colleague to "move on" if he/she felt that the curent position they're in is no longer suitable for them. That's an honest boss; not necessarily a wrong one who made a bad move.


Never once did I say that the manager was fired for what he said to the employee.  

He was fired because he was a crappy manager.  

One of the things that made him crappy was the fact that he refused to listen to anyone except those who reinforced his own ideas.  His "like it or leave it" attitude nearly ran the place into the ground, which would have cost all of us our jobs.

Not surprisingly, he WAS former military.  He thought that was supposed to impress us.  It didn't.  

The workers who questioned his management decisions were doing it because they DID like the place, they WANTED to see the problems fixed, they WANTED it to succeed and improve.  They saw the things that were going wrong.  Many of them have worked there for thirty, forty, fifty years. . .they've seen what works and what doesn't.  They're speaking from experience.

Same with the fandom.  People aren't just going to "quit."


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## Kinguyakki (Sep 14, 2022)

Emberfrost said:


> What are we defining as a child here? I know that I'm a youngfur, so I'm pretty biased but I think that eleven and under should not, and once over that age, it's the parent's judgement if their child should be allowed to actively join the fandom.


Understood.  Parents should be involved at some level.  They should have some idea who their kids' friends are, what their interests are, what they're doing online.  Emphasis on "should."

I consider a "child" someone who is legally a minor.  I don't care if someone is 17.5 years old, they're still a minor and should not have access to 18+ sites.  Of course, they find ways around it.  That's nothing new.  

I have seen kids get kicked out of chats on Discord and Telegram after revealing that their age is below the cutoff for the group.  Totally okay with that.

It's not hyper-vigilant paranoid policing, it's just people paying attention and trying to keep the kids out of the areas where they're not supposed to be.


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## Troj (Sep 14, 2022)

^^^ Also, the Law doesn't care that someone was _almost _of legal age, so it's just plain smart to stay on the right side of the Law where applicable.

Otherwise, I reckon we can establish guidelines, standards, and rules based on general knowledge of child development.


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 14, 2022)

While staying within the bounds of the law is obviously necessary (and I maintain that it’s a good idea to stress to minors that legality and legal liability are the major reasons why we can’t let a 17-year-old have a little tinysex as a treat), I think it’s still important to treat minors their age. I don’t agree with calling teenagers children; I find it infantilizing. We can acknowledge that a 15-17-year-old has gone through puberty and is more mature than an 8-year-old without for that sake advocating for them being given open access to ALL THE PORN.

The line of where “child” ends and “youth” or “teen” or whatever begins is kind of fuzzy. The point is that age appropriate interactions/conversations will look different depending on age. Because realistically (though not legally) there’s no major difference between someone a day before and a day after their 18th birthday, and treating them as though there is (beyond a straightforward “look, I can’t legally have that conversation with you”) is disrespectful as fuck. Remaining cognizant of that is also important in order to prevent situations where two minors in their late teens get in the habit of having raunchy conversations (as teenagers do - I'm not going to pretend most post-pubescent teens don't at some point talk about dicks and boobs etc. with each other) and one turns 18 before the other, and the slightly older one is suddenly called out as OMGPREDATOR because a third party found out. And like... no.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 14, 2022)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Never once did I say that the manager was fired for what he said to the employee.
> He was fired because he was a crappy manager.


Okay...... never once did I say he was either....... but, based on the style of your writings it suggested that that may be part of the reason..... which was based on his managemnt style. I don't know that either way..... but as I said:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> I honestly doubt - your old manager was fired simply for telling your colleague to "move on" if he/she felt that the current position they're in is no longer suitable for them.


But I still stand by this also:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> That's an honest boss; not necessarily a wrong one who made a bad move.


A boss (in his/her capacity as a supervisor) often needs to tell people what they need to hear...... which is not always necessarily what they want to hear..... and thus, for those who feel this Fandom is a bad place, the door is still open for them to explore other pursuits (I and many others, contend).


Troj said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> All it means that we typically take our history, our personality, our desires, our values, our hang-ups, our beliefs, our attitudes, our tendencies, our habits, our assumptions, and our patterns with us into new relationships and new situations, _unless and until _we decide to change something. I was musing on the fact that some people have a tendency to look for the perfect community or perfect relationship, not realizing that at least some of the problems they've been constantly running up against reside within themselves.


Okay...... (shrug). As I said:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> I'm not entirely sure what that means; but if you're in some way cryptically referring to me posting on this thread yesterday.......


so, I didn't know what the context of your posting meant; and as such, I addressed your (what I though was) your concerns...... and as such I still stand by what I wrote; even though the context of your posting was cloudy to me.


Troj said:


> If you see that as a direct and insidious message intended specifically or solely for you, then maybe you have a guilty conscience, and maybe that should prompt some reflection on your part.


There's no need to be insulting though Miss; just because I was confused about the context of your posting and couldn't wave my magic wand and automatically decipher what you meant - doesn't reflect poorly on me personally, per say.

And so, assuming that my conscious was "guilty" (as you write) simply becasue I stood up for myself against (an interpreted) off the cuff remark about my presence on this Forum is frankly, a bit snide.

And maybe you should do some of your own reflecting - seeing that you felt the need to throw such a misinformed remark my way when I was simply confused.

I make no apologies to anyone though for standing up for myself, so there. 


Judge Spear said:


> If you surround yourself in adult content/tendencies and you know that minors share your platform, you need to do everything you can to keep them away from you and your 18+ content. And you should have zero interaction privately with minors.
> This is what I meant by boundaries. *Obviously.*


Of course.... that makes sense.

But at the same time, there's a big difference (many of us contend) between preventing someone from being victimized versus slamming the guantlet down on the table (so to speak) and implementing a semi-police mentality that evicerates consenting adults of their private activities also, in our zeal to "protect the children" at whatever cost.

If an adult inadvertently talks to a minor on here for example, I don't think public scrutiny is warranted on that individual simply because other people are nervous about the potential for wrongdoing, when no wrongdoing is actually proven.


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## Troj (Sep 14, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> While staying within the bounds of the law is obviously necessary (and I maintain that it’s a good idea to stress to minors that legality and legal liability are the major reasons why we can’t let a 17-year-old have a little tinysex as a treat), I think it’s still important to treat minors their age. I don’t agree with calling teenagers children; I find it infantilizing. We can acknowledge that a 15-17-year-old has gone through puberty and is more mature than an 8-year-old without for that sake advocating for them being given open access to ALL THE PORN.



Absolutely. Technically, teens are children, but it's important to recognize the critical differences between, say, an 8-year-old, a 12-year-old, and a 16-year-old, and treat them accordingly.

I don't think 12-year-olds should attend conventions (furry or otherwise) by themselves without any adult supervision, but most 16-year-olds can handle it.

Your point about not treating normal teens like sexual predators or deviants is also very well-taken.

Broadly, I think it's perfectly fine to interact with kids, but _how_ you interact will depend on their developmental level, age, personality, and personal situation, as well as your local laws. When interacting with known or suspected minors, I err on the side of keeping conversations light and uncontroversial. When interacting with younger kids, I make sure to keep guardians in the loop. I also tend to err on the side of letting the minors initiate the interaction with me.


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## Foxridley (Sep 14, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> While staying within the bounds of the law is obviously necessary (and I maintain that it’s a good idea to stress to minors that legality and legal liability are the major reasons why we can’t let a 17-year-old have a little tinysex as a treat), I think it’s still important to treat minors their age. I don’t agree with calling teenagers children; I find it infantilizing. We can acknowledge that a 15-17-year-old has gone through puberty and is more mature than an 8-year-old without for that sake advocating for them being given open access to ALL THE PORN.
> 
> The line of where “child” ends and “youth” or “teen” or whatever begins is kind of fuzzy. The point is that age appropriate interactions/conversations will look different depending on age. Because realistically (though not legally) there’s no major difference between someone a day before and a day after their 18th birthday, and treating them as though there is (beyond a straightforward “look, I can’t legally have that conversation with you”) is disrespectful as fuck. Remaining cognizant of that is also important in order to prevent situations where two minors in their late teens get in the habit of having raunchy conversations (as teenagers do - I'm not going to pretend most post-pubescent teens don't at some point talk about dicks and boobs etc. with each other) and one turns 18 before the other, and the slightly older one is suddenly called out as OMGPREDATOR because a third party found out. And like... no.


I was wondering when someone would bring this up.
”Should children be allowed in the fandom?” and “Should minors be allowed in the fandom?” are not entirely the same question.


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