# Xbox One Discussion Thread



## CannonFodder (May 21, 2013)

*New xbox will have used disc fee*

In case you missed it yes the rumors are true folks, but at least they are not locking out used discs all together.  Instead the new xbox will install video games to the hard drive and you play from there, if you wish to play a used disc or a disc from someone else you will have to pay a fee to be allowed to download it and then play the game.

For xbox gamers what are your thoughts on this?


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## lilyWhite (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Depends on how much the fee is and exactly how this system is implemented. There's not enough information on it for me to render a full judgement of the idea, but I'm not against the concept at this point.


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## Heliophobic (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



CannonFodder said:


> For xbox gamers what are your thoughts on this?



I think Microsoft are fucking scumbags. That's what I think.

That's really all there is to say on the matter.


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## Judge Spear (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Stupid as fuck, but the with the cost of demanding games I expect as much.
I don't care to much since I don't play used titles and I'm only getting an XBox for the shooters I know it will have.


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Since the 360 was hit really damn hard in terms of piracy during it's lifetime I am really not surprised that they decided to implement something like this.

I have mixed feelings about this. I am not really a guy who buys many used games but at the same time I don't like it when companies are telling me what I can and can't do with my property.
If the new Xbox doesn't get good first party titles I won't buy it anyway.


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## Aetius (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Where is the proof?


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## Ji-Ji (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I think it's stupid. I love my hard copies of CD's videos and games. Plus I'm from a big family my brothers and I used to share games when we moved out I was miffed I lost my save data to his console when I bought my console.

I missed the show, would it be off topic to ask if the £193 Xbox live price is correct, and if the console only functions if it's perpetually online?


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## CannonFodder (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Serbia Strong said:


> Where is the proof?


http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/


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## Schwimmwagen (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

RIP second hand retailers

RIP pre-owned sections of established game stores

RIP kids playing variety of games during sleepovers

RIP your wallet after needing to buy a replacement console and the ability to play the games you previously owned on it

RIP console gaming


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## Ji-Ji (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Gibby said:


> RIP second hand retailers
> 
> RIP pre-owned sections of established game stores
> 
> ...



We lost game station Gib, we may lose GAME.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

OK, here's how it works:

All games are installed to the HDD.

You buy the game. You get a license and an install disc.

Once the install disc is used, your license is attached to your Live account (NOT your console).

Your install disc is then usable to install it again or for someone else to install it.

For someone else to install the game, they need to pay a fee.

This fee will probably be retail price or the price of a digital download (if there's a difference - Probably not).

And that's the end of used games on the XBOne. I've said before I don't really care that much about it because I'm a PC gamer and this is already how things are in my world, but Valve and other distributers tend to generally charge fairer prices for digital copies than brick and mortar retail. I don't have any faith whatsoever that Microsoft will make an effort to do this.

EDIT: Proof is on Wired and Engadget, confirmed by Microsoft. Can't be arsed to dig it up, go look for yourself.


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## CannonFodder (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Gibby said:


> RIP second hand retailers
> 
> RIP pre-owned sections of established game stores
> 
> ...


Right about now Sony and Nintendo are laughing their asses off.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



CannonFodder said:


> Right about now Sony and Nintendo are laughing their asses off.


Sony's stock jumped 9% post-conference.


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## Ji-Ji (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

That link says it's joined to a account, not console.. What about family consoles that have many accounts on one console?

It's sure it's probably safe to say it registers to console id or something, if not, that's pathetic.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Ji-Ji said:


> That link says it's joined to a account, not console.. What about family consoles that have many accounts on one console?
> 
> It's sure it's probably safe to say register end to console id or something, if not, that's pathetic.


No, the way it's understood right now, it's account-specific, period. No 'family consoles'.


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## Duality Jack (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

So the PS4 is basically just more hardware *yawn*
and the new XBOX is a DRM whore. *sigh*

So far I see nothing interesting in the console future

Arguably though you could say Microsoft is just trying to move towards the Steam Model... Which may be a good thing.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

MSFT sort of is, but I can't trust them to price accordingly. It seems more to me like they're moving towards their original goal with the first X-Box, which was to create a system that takes over the living room in every aspect. Really, they nailed that part. I'd buy this over an AppleTV if they were competing together. But they're not. This is a game console, supposedly, but they're marketing it like a set top box that sometimes plays games.

The PS4 at least seems to be directed at game developers and by extension gamers. It has somewhat better hardware (though by and large the two are identical), and surprisingly enough seems to be the only game-focused home console of this generation.

Long story short, Valve should build a Steam Box that costs $400 and takes over the market. Kick Sony out of the console business and let Microsoft wallow in the set top box business they so desperately want.


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Oh by the way, you will need a constant internet connection* and you HAVE to have Kinect constantly connected to it, otherwise the console won't do anything. Oh and both Kinect and the camera will be active during standby.
Yeah, fuck that shit.

*The console itself won't require a constant internet connection. However, Microsoft allows developers to have Xbox One games use their cloud services. So if the game can't connect to the cloud the game won't run. So in other words, all the big devs and publishers will implement these cloud services, which means almost all games will require a constant connection.
Verarschen kann ich mich alleine!


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## Judge Spear (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Welp...that's two consoles that are less then shit in my eyes  because now that this is in place I suddenly feel that my shooters won't see XBox _either_.
Let's hope Sony doesn't make it three. I want a new WipEout from them. :I


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> Welp...that's two consoles that are less then shit in my eyes  because now that this is in place I suddenly feel that my shooters won't see XBox _either_.
> Let's hope Sony doesn't make it three. *I want a new WipEout from them.* :I



SO DO I!
Oh also, if you say "that's two consoles that are less then shit in my eyes", what exactly do you have against Wii U? The only problem that I see with that thing right now is that there are no games for it  But otherwise it seems to be a solid system. I guess it will end up worse than the Wii. A couple of gems in a pile of shit. Only that the pile of shit will be significantly smaller than the Wii's pile of shit.


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## Rigby (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Pffft, I missed this gem of information earlier. No used games (without a fee that renders the concept useless), forcing you to buy Kinect, and most of the new technology in the system is used to let you do tons of things you can do already, most of which have nothing to do with actually playing video games. Sounds like you could get roughly the same experience out of this console with a cheap laptop and an HDMI cord.

Fuck, for the price this thing will probably cost, you could build a decent computer and plug it into your TV, and I'm sure that after people get used to that sort of set-up, they'd enjoy it a lot more than they would the Xbox One. Of course, people won't put the time or effort into that and they'll be happy with inferior, overpriced Microsoft technology. The original Xbox didn't even have fucking built-in wireless network connections lmao, and there's no upgrading an Xbox graphic card, RAM, audio card, or any of that, and I doubt people will really utilize the motion sensing technology to make it worth it.

I don't get why anyone would have any praise for this at all, it's so counterintuitive that it's just baffling.


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## Teal (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I'm someone who buys lots of used games (I can't afford to buy many new). I hope they drag themselves under for this.


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## Judge Spear (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



CaptainCool said:


> SO DO I!
> Oh also, if you say "that's two consoles that are less then shit in my eyes", what exactly do you have against Wii U? The only problem that I see with that thing right now is that there are no games for it  But otherwise it seems to be a solid system. I guess it will end up worse than the Wii. A couple of gems in a pile of shit. Only that the pile of shit will be significantly smaller than the Wii's pile of shit.



Wii U has NO games that I care about at all and isn't getting any that have been announced that would make me drop $350 on a system (because I'm not settling for the inferior model obviously). F-Zero is dead with Starfox around the corner. Metroid is a strong possibility of joining F-Zero, and I hate that goddamn controller. Yes, I've used it. Multiple times. Not to mention a lot of my angst stems from the Wii and my disappointment in Nintendo in general. 
Trust me. It has nothing to do with the console's specs. I couldn't care less even though I feel it's crap too, but so was the 3DS and I still play mine.

I'm worried WipEout wasn't picked up by another company so if not, I'll be disappointed and probably won't get a PS4 either. We can only hope.


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> Wii U has NO games that I care about at all and isn't getting any that have been announced that would make me drop $350 on a system (because I'm not settling for the inferior model obviously). F-Zero is dead with Starfox around the corner. Metroid is a strong possibility of joining F-Zero, and I hate that goddamn controller. Yes, I've used it. Multiple times. Not to mention a lot of my angst stems from the Wii and my disappointment in Nintendo in general.
> Trust me. It has nothing to do with the console's specs. I couldn't care less even though I feel it's crap too, but so was the 3DS and I still play mine.
> 
> I'm worried WipEout wasn't picked up by another company so if not, I'll be disappointed and probably won't get a PS4 either. We can only hope.



I agree. It really is sad that they are just burrying their best franchises like that, even Mario got the copy&paste treatment with this whole "New Super Mario Bros." nonsense. They are essentially selling the same game ever since the first one of those came out on the original DS.
The controller... Well, I have used it once so far. And by that I mean that I have held it for like 20 seconds.

I own a Wii and ever since I got it in 2006 I have bought about 10 games for it in total. The last game that I played on it was Skyward Sword. It's been collecting dust ever since...
I like Nintendo but they really need to get their butt in motion if they don't want to end like Sega.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I'm cautiously optimistic about Sony thanks to their developer-friendly reveal. Seems they've learned a lot from the PS3's launch and are extending the olive branch in an effort to make amends. They focused almost entirely on the games and the people who make them, and emphasized the openness of the system.

Meanwhile Microsoft is spending money to hop onto every bandwagon from social media to fantasy football to broadcast television and exclusive television shows a-la Game of Thrones and Hemlock Grove. They're trying to realize their vision of taking over the living room as a one-size-fits-all box. Except in doing so, they're ignoring what brought them to where they are now in the first place.

Also: WiiU? Hardware that competes with 2005 hardware, just like the Wii was a repackaged Gamecube from 2001. Seriously, it's not really all that hard to find more powerful hardware these days. Low-end hardware seriously impacts what developers can do with the system, specifically in how much time they need to spend in optimizing for it in order to get acceptable results versus other things they could be doing, which is exactly why the PS3 and 360 need to go (and the sooner the better). It's a non-contender this time around (again), though the tablet controller REALLY could be interesting if anyone other than Nintendo were interested in developing for it.


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## Zerig (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Damn, it feels amazing to have a good PC right now.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Zerig said:


> Damn, it feels amazing to have a good PC right now.


Amen. The sooner Valve finishes the Steam Box and launches it proper, the sooner the playing field gets leveled and all this bullshit can fall to the wayside.


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## Judge Spear (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

All these free PC games both in hassle and monetary aspects...
I've come to the conclusion that not even an exclusive DoDonPachi would get one of these things in my house. Maybe if it was a bad gift. May as well keep it for any hacks that come for it. 



CaptainCool said:


> I agree. It really is sad that they are just burrying their best franchises like that, even Mario got the copy&paste treatment with this whole "New Super Mario Bros." nonsense. They are essentially selling the same game ever since the first one of those came out on the original DS.
> The controller... Well, I have used it once so far. And by that I mean that I have held it for like 20 seconds.
> 
> I own a Wii and ever since I got it in 2006 I have bought about 10 games for it in total. The last game that I played on it was Skyward Sword. It's been collecting dust ever since...
> I like Nintendo but they really need to get their butt in motion if they don't want to end like Sega.



Even Galaxy 2 was $50 DLC. I believe they even said they were levels left over. And you know what? Nintendo fans ate it up like CoD fans ate MW3. No new engine. No new gameplay. Not even new music.
I just use my Wii for homebrew and PS1 games. Last game I played was Skyward Sword also...I don't even *WANT* to get into that.

And speaking of CoD, I heard they were trying to hype up another one? As if CoD is actually still relevant. Don't get me wrong, I like them (wouldn't buy them), but really? MW4 and Ghosts have already been announced and we KNEW they were coming anyway.


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## Fernin (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Since I never buy used games and only intend on buying certain franchises on the X-One, I'm entirely not concerned with the issue. Any game that's not a must have will just have to wait for the bargain bin.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> And speaking of CoD, I heard they were trying to hype up another one? As if CoD is actually still relevant. Don't get me wrong, I like them (wouldn't buy them), but really? MW4 and Ghosts have already been announced and we KNEW they were coming anyway.


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## Seekrit (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Bad news indeed. I can't imagine the fee being anything less than full retail price, so this dooms second-hand gaming. I'd be annoyed (xbawks4lyf3) but I'm still really enjoying 360. Plan now is to buy up any used 360 games I want, take advantage of reduced retail prices, and wait for a Steam Box to be a thing.

Microsoft just shafted a lot of people, and not in the good way.


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> Also: WiiU? Hardware that competes with 2005 hardware, just like the Wii was a repackaged Gamecube from 2001. Seriously, it's not really all that hard to find more powerful hardware these days. Low-end hardware seriously impacts what developers can do with the system, specifically in how much time they need to spend in optimizing for it in order to get acceptable results versus other things they could be doing, which is exactly why the PS3 and 360 need to go (and the sooner the better). It's a non-contender this time around (again), though the tablet controller REALLY could be interesting if anyone other than Nintendo were interested in developing for it.



The tablet controller really is interesting but apparently no one has a clue what to do with it beyond glorified maps and inventory screens. The whole playing without a TV thing is cool but really? You might as well get a 3DS if you don't want to use your TV. And now the 3DS actually has a bunch of good games :T
The WiiU is weird. It seems to confuse devs just like it is confusing customers, Nintendo is failing on every level right now and there are no third party games right now. They really need to do something now or this thing is gonna tank really damn hard.



Zerig said:


> Damn, it feels amazing to have a good PC right now.



To be honest? Now that I have heard about the new Xbox I really am considering to pick up PC gaming again.



secretfur said:


> Bad news indeed. I can't imagine the fee being anything less than full retail price, so this dooms second-hand gaming. I'd be annoyed (xbawks4lyf3) but I'm still really enjoying 360. Plan now is to buy up any used 360 games I want, take advantage of reduced retail prices, and wait for a Steam Box to be a thing.
> 
> Microsoft just shafted a lot of people, and not in the good way.



My guess it's gonna be at least 20 bucks. The old online pass alone was 10 bucks afterall!


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## Seekrit (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



CaptainCool said:


> My guess it's gonna be at least 20 bucks. The old online pass alone was 10 bucks afterall!



Wait they've done this before? I heard nothing of what must have been all the butthurt.


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



secretfur said:


> Wait they've done this before? I heard nothing of what must have been all the butthurt.



Yeah, online passes. As in a code that you have to register if you want to play a game online. A game that needs an online pass comes with one code that can be redeemed once. If you buy this game used and want to play it online you had to buy one of those online passes for 10 bucks.
Some games tied these passes to certain advantages like free DLC but other than that it was really just their way to battle the used games market.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I seriously doubt that "used" games will be "sold" for $10 or $20. What incentive is there to buy a new copy, then? Get your friend to loan you the install disc, install it, and get a $60 game for $20.

Not gonna happen. There will be no discount except what typical discount there is between digital download and retail copies of the game. Some games (Activision's titles, for example) have zero difference in pricing.

But yeah, the Online Pass thing was mostly an attempt to make money on used game sales. Online play was disabled for your EA account until you ponied up, which in a way makes sense, because you technically haven't purchased anything from them having purchased a used game. Used games are to publishers the piracy of the console world.


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## CaptainCool (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> I seriously doubt that games will be "sold" for $10 or $20. What incentive is there to buy a new copy, then? Get your friend to loan you the install disc, install it, and get a $60 for $20.
> 
> Not gonna happen. There will be no discount except what typical discount there is between digital download and retail copies of the game. Some games (Activision's titles, for example) have zero difference in pricing.



What makes me curious is that they are calling this a "fee". They didn't flat out say that you have to buy the whole game full price.
We are just gonna have to wait and see.


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## lupinealchemist (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

And so corporate greed begins the extinction of the Xbox race.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

The plot thickens: XBOne requires periodic connection to the internet.


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## Arshes Nei (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Glad my Dreamcast, PS2, DS and my awesome PC still work


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## lilyWhite (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

According to Xbox Support, the claim that there is a fee for used games is incorrect.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



lilyWhite said:


> According to Xbox Support, the claim that there is a fee for used games is incorrect.



Yup, but in the same breath...






Also damning:


			
				Kotaku said:
			
		

> "The bits  that are on that disc, you can give it to your friend and they can  install it on an Xbox One," he said. "They would then have to purchase  the right to play that game through Xbox Live."
> 
> "They would be paying the same price we paid, or less?" we asked.
> 
> ...



So basically they're saying, yes, it's tied irreparably to your XBLID, and you must sign in to YOUR profile while at a friend's place to play the game (which, if you've ever downloaded a profile on an 360, you'd know it takes a very fucking long time to do, while also waiting for the game to install in the first place). In other words, fees are definitely going to be involved, or the game will simply be rendered inaccessible outside of your XBLID.​


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## Stratelier (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Y'know, the idea that if you sell a disc it de-activates your install once that same disc is purchased+installed to a different user is barely any different from games that run exclusively from the disc (sell disc, obviously can't play the game without it).



Runefox said:


> But yeah, the Online Pass thing was mostly an attempt to make money on used game sales. Online play was disabled for your EA account until you ponied up, which in a way makes sense, because you technically haven't purchased anything from them having purchased a used game. Used games are to publishers the piracy of the console world.


Used games are also protected by the "first-sale" doctrine in much the same way that books are.


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## Golden (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

My only thought on the matter is how can Microsoft really afford to do this? I see the Xbox franchise as one of the few things Microsoft has going for itself right now: Windows 8 was a disappointment, the Surface tablet is largely a flop, and no one uses WP 8. 

I guess Microsoft took a look at the video gaming market and figured that they'd end up growing more financially by combating piracy and accepting a loss of users than by staying the course.

Then again, what the fuck do I know? I'm really not one of those economics CBA guys.

This doesn't really affect me anyways because I was always going to get a PS4: Destiny + Naughty Dog + MOAR HARDWARE!!!11


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> Used games are also protected by the "first-sale" doctrine in much the same way that books are.


Not according to software companies. You buy the software? You're buying a license to use it, not an actual piece of software. The disc itself literally becomes a vehicle by which the software is installed, and not representative of the software itself. It's what they've been saying forever in regards to piracy.

EDIT: More hilarity! Apparently the XBOne's TV functions are US-only!

EDIT 2: EVEN MORE HILARITY


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## veeno (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Well...I guess im not buying a new gen console.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Internal HDD is not replaceable.


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## Seekrit (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> EDIT: More hilarity! Apparently the XBOne's TV functions are US-only!
> 
> EDIT 2: EVEN MORE HILARITY



And I here I thought the days of getting screwed by videogame companies were over. What's their excuse? They're not even Japanese.

Even if Microsoft got TV functions for every country it'll be sold in, how can they compete with companies like Sky or Virgin? Sky in particular are the Microsoft of TV broadcasting, pretty much monopolising the business. This should be a concern for them, seeing as the UK is Xbox's biggest market outside the US.



Runefox said:


> Internal HDD is not replaceable.



oh come the fuck on MS


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## Teal (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> Not according to software companies. You buy the software? You're buying a license to use it, not an actual piece of software. The disc itself literally becomes a vehicle by which the software is installed, and not representative of the software itself. It's what they've been saying forever in regards to piracy.
> 
> EDIT: More hilarity! Apparently the XBOne's TV functions are US-only!
> 
> EDIT 2: EVEN MORE HILARITY





Runefox said:


> Internal HDD is not replaceable.


 Hahahahahahahaha.


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## Heliophobic (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Gibby said:


> RIP console gaming



Console gaming _just now_ died?


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Saliva said:


> Console gaming _just now_ died?


It's hilarious that PC gaming seems the holy grail and last bastion of gaming considering console gamers were saying the exact same thing in the opposite direction for the past two generations. Honestly, even a modest PC with an AMD A6 or higher APU can handle most current-gen games just fine, and at higher resolutions than the 720p that most current-gen titles max out at. Friend of mine got a $600 AMD A8-based laptop that runs practically everything she wants it to smoothly.

EDIT: More hilarity! Gamestop posts a 5% stock drop in the wake of the XBOne used games news.

EDIT: YET MORE! MSFT is bribing people to sign up for pre-order notifications. May as well sign up if you use the Windows Store for anything - $10 credit is $10 credit.


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## Golden (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



secretfur said:


> And I here I thought the days of getting screwed by videogame companies were over.


  How can you seriously say that?


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## Ji-Ji (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Saliva said:


> Console gaming _just now_ died?


 I'd say soon if ever, I mean the current/last (perception?) Generation has been good. Online play was a great thing, good graphics, bugfixes, dlc, even playing music on console whilst gaming has been pretty cool. I've been pretty content with my 360 over the years. We could've had it worse, seems now we will.


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## Stratelier (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> Not according to software companies. You buy the software? You're buying a license to use it, not an actual piece of software. The disc itself literally becomes a vehicle by which the software is installed, and not representative of the software itself. It's what they've been saying forever in regards to piracy.


And that's a hard sell.  In fact, I'm pretty sure I heard European courts upholding the notion that despite what software publishers say, software licenses are considered just as transferrable as physical property (again, first-sale doctrine).



Runefox said:


> EDIT 2: EVEN MORE HILARITY


Wow, that is genuinely funny.  Talk about your voice-recognition technology gone mad.



Runefox said:


> Internal HDD is not replaceable.


Who still uses HDDs in this day and age?  Solid state drives, people.


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## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> Who still uses HDDs in this day and age?  Solid state drives, people.


People who have to install every game in their library because their games won't run off discs. Otherwise known as XBOne users. 500GB won't be enough after about 25-30 games, assuming 20GB/game (not unrealistic). Then there's patches, the OS(es), DLC, any media copied to the drive, savegames...


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## Ji-Ji (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> Who still uses HDDs in this day and age?  Solid state drives, people.



SSD's are pretty pricey for a good size, imagine how much a console company would charge?


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## CannonFodder (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> EDIT: More hilarity! Gamestop posts a 5% stock drop in the wake of the XBOne used games news.


Only good news about this.


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## Seekrit (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Golden said:


> How can you seriously say that?



Because I'm European, and I remember the 90s. If an anticipated game that looked really good was coming, you'd be sure we'd never see it. Even the pay-to-win adware bullshittery of the current gen is an improvement.

Nintendo shall never be forgiven for its crimes.


----------



## Stratelier (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> People who have to install every game in their library because their games won't run off discs. Otherwise known as XBOne users. 500GB won't be enough after about 25-30 games, assuming 20GB/game (not unrealistic). Then there's patches, the OS(es), DLC, any media copied to the drive, savegames...



That wasn't what I was asking.


----------



## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> That wasn't what I was asking.


You seem to be under the impression that solid state drives are of similar capacity to hard drives.


----------



## Golden (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



secretfur said:


> Because I'm European, and I remember the 90s. If an anticipated game that looked really good was coming, you'd be sure we'd never see it. Even the pay-to-win adware bullshittery of the current gen is an improvement.
> 
> Nintendo shall never be forgiven for its crimes.



Fair enough, although I'm pretty sure we're being fucked over sideways by video gaming companies in the current gen just as badly with DRM, obvious cash-grab DLC/day one DLC, and the fact that the quality of games being released today is progressively getting shittier.

Look no further than Sim City.


----------



## Stratelier (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> You seem to be under the impression that solid state drives are of similar capacity to hard drives.


Depends.

What's the capacity of the Wii U, 250GB?
Now what's the HDD size on the XB1, 500GB?

True, you don't exactly see SSD's in the TB range, but....

(Tangent:  Having played all three versions of _Okami_ I can say from experience that file access speed when you save/load your game is most definitely on the order of Wii >> PS2 > PS3.  On the Wii, the Ammy-shaped progress indicator speeds across the screen faster than Rule 34.)


----------



## Runefox (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> What's the capacity of the Wii U, 250GB?


32GB for the Pro, 8GB for the basic.

That kinda throws a wrench in it. It's about $200 for an entry level 256GB SSD at retail ($300 for a decent one like a Samsung 840 Pro), and the 32GB Pro WiiU costs $349 (standard is $299). So yeah. There's a good reason why it's not an SSD.


----------



## Stratelier (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Okay, that's what I get for not verifying my numbers before posting....


----------



## lilyWhite (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Golden said:


> Fair enough, although I'm pretty sure we're being fucked over sideways by video gaming companies in the current gen just as badly with DRM, obvious cash-grab DLC/day one DLC, and the fact that the quality of games being released today is progressively getting shittier.
> 
> Look no further than Sim City.



Look at _Friday the 13th_ on NES. _Daikatana_ on the PC. _Haze_ for PS3.

Long story short, "bad" games always have and always will exist. Though given that the new _SimCity_ has sold well and has players that enjoy it, perhaps the problem is more that modern gamers are convinced that anything _they_ dislike is _undeniably_ poor quality.

(And this is coming from someone who has played _SimCity_ and thought to herself, _How do people find games like this fun?_)


----------



## Ramses (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Stray observations - 

New Xbox comes with Kinect, so no choice there about whether you want it or not.

Not backwards compatible, so no replaying (or playing for the 1st time) older games. Not BC for XBLA games either.

What happens if you're not sure about a game, so you want to just sample it - by renting it, or borrowing it from a friend?

The big announcement was mostly about Skype and things like that. Very little info on actual games.

What about independent game makers / small studios?

Xbox One? X-Bone? XB1? Xbox, first class? Xbox, days of future past?

My god, how much is this going to cost?


----------



## Saga (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

If you buy a used game, you get used quality. With the extra fee, you're essentially paying to be screwed. And not in the fun way.
 Good job MS!


----------



## lilyWhite (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

It's times like this when I come to realize just how stupid I am for expecting people on the internet to confirm things that they've heard about when not doing so ensures that they can complain about this thing that they've heard.


----------



## Seekrit (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Golden said:


> Fair enough, although I'm pretty sure we're being fucked over sideways by video gaming companies in the current gen just as badly with DRM, obvious cash-grab DLC/day one DLC, and the fact that the quality of games being released today is progressively getting shittier.
> 
> Look no further than Sim City.



Oh it's still pretty shitty, except now when a company pulls out they don't donkey punch you.

Hopefully Sony don't make the same stupid mistakes as MS, maybe that's why they're still holding back on PS4 info. I blame piracy for this mess. It's been going on for too long without any serious repercussions, now it hits all at once. I have bad feels for all the PS2 games I downloaded :c


----------



## Judge Spear (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I'm still shocked Sony's stock INCREASED after this reveal. RIGHT. FUCKING. AFTER.


----------



## Seekrit (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> I'm still shocked Sony's stock INCREASED after this reveal. RIGHT. FUCKING. AFTER.



Makes sense though. Microsoft announce everything, people are disappointed, and Sony still have time to change things.


----------



## Teal (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> I'm still shocked Sony's stock INCREASED after this reveal. RIGHT. FUCKING. AFTER.


 I'm shocked that you're shocked.


----------



## Zerig (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I sure can't wait to play videogames on my Xbox One!

Oh...wait.


----------



## Saga (May 21, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Zerig said:


> I sure can't wait to play videogames on my Xbox One!
> 
> Oh...wait.



2 months in the future:
"News from wall street this morning, Sony stocks skyrocket surpassing Apple and Google, and Microsoft declares bankruptcy"


----------



## Willow (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I skipped through most of the thread but basically what I gathered was that XBOne is essentially a little computer and since they really don't want people to share from computer to computer without paying themselves so to speak, they're imposing a fee to bring it over. Can't say I blame them though. I don't blame them or Adobe for trying to lock down on piracy because this stuff's pretty expensive to make on its own and that's just money lost. Though $50 is still unreasonable for a monthly fee I will admit..but I don't use Photoshop very often

Not that I know how much money goes into making software but games are pretty expensive to develop and it just seems unfair to the developer. 

And as far as TV goes. A lot of people are switching to just using things like Netflix so it's no surprise they want to get in on that too. 

I do feel bad for Gamestop though. :c


----------



## Fernin (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

And yet, inspite of all the hyperbole and outrage... People will still buy it! Just like they did when 360s had a 50% failure rate, PS3s cost 3x what they were actually worth, COD (and every sports game) was a yearly rehash, and everyone had a code you had to buy to play preowned games anyways. 

*yawn*


----------



## Runefox (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Remember all those EA Sports clips?

Not that it's surprising.


----------



## Willow (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Fernin said:


> And yet, inspite of all the hyperbole and outrage... People will still buy it! Just like they did when 360s had a 50% failure rate, PS3s cost 3x what they were actually worth, COD (and every sports game) was a yearly rehash, and everyone had a code you had to buy to play preowned games anyways.
> 
> *yawn*


At least they fixed the 360's failure rate


----------



## Duality Jack (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

So BASICALLY: They wanna make XBL like Steam?
... okay. I don't see this as a problem. 
Around here used games cost not much less anyhow.


----------



## Fernin (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Mokushi said:


> So BASICALLY: They wanna make XBL like Steam?
> ... okay. I don't see this as a problem.
> Around here used games cost not much less anyhow.



You know that's not a bad way to put it actually. Basially everything they're doing on the consoles are things PC gamers have dealt with for ages now, probably why most people who primarily game on PC and only buy consoles for specific titles (like myself) are largely not bothered because we're used to it already in the PC realm. Which also means the wait for holidays sales and price slashes mentality when it comes to buying games will probably come to consoles just as it exists on PC now.


----------



## Duality Jack (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Fernin said:


> You know that's not a bad way to put it actually. Basially everything they're doing on the consoles are things PC gamers have dealt with for ages now, probably why most people who primarily game on PC and only buy consoles for specific titles (like myself) are largely not bothered because we're used to it already in the PC realm. Which also means the wait for holidays sales and price slashes mentality when it comes to buying games will probably come to consoles just as it exists on PC now.


Not only that it is also product insurance in a way. No worries about buying a new game if your disk is scratched or damaged and whatnot, and if they implement something like steam clouding, you can have more ease of backing up saves. 

Not to mention the chance of likely having more games available for online purchase, which allows more of a variety of sales and likely an environment more friendly for small developers, and I am all for small developers.


----------



## DarrylWolf (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

And this is why I'm a Nintendo fanboy- now I don't think that whatever games Miyamoto thinks up are like tablets that came from Mount Sinai but I do have a preference for Nintendo. With video games now inundated with hyper-violent, dark shooters, and yearly rehashes of sports titles all held by Electronic Arts for the other two systems, the Big N is the last real innovator involved. Plus, when this new Xbox gets old, I mean as old as the Super Nintendo is today, do you think the video game nostalgists will be happy to continue paying Microsoft for the privilege of playing a game from the 2010's when they are in the 2030's or '40s? I don't think so- it's also really callous when you think that there are groups who give systems and games to disadvantaged children, like those from the inner city and hospitals, and now somebody will have to pay for what was previously free. Used video game stores are NOT going to drive video game companies out of business, why doesn't Microsoft realize that? That's right, they want more money.


----------



## Runefox (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Microsoft cannot be trusted to run Steam-style sales.


----------



## Duality Jack (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> Microsoft cannot be trusted to run Steam-style sales.


 They already somewhat do, and so does PSN, just not as dramatically priced, shifting to online only purchases is just starting to make more sense.


----------



## Demensa (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I'm not sure what I'm going to do next generation....

Let's just hope my internet connection is good.


----------



## Stratelier (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Karloz said:


> Microsoft just gave Nintendoï»¿ a life line.



Nintendo isn't exactly dying.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Mokushi said:


> So BASICALLY: They wanna make XBL like Steam?
> ... okay. I don't see this as a problem.
> Around here used games cost not much less anyhow.



That isn't entirely good comparison. Steam allows me to play games I have purchased elsewhere. I don't need a Steam Key to add a game to my library or pay a fee. I buy a game from Amazon, GOG, Humble Bundle, direct from publisher, etc... I can get a copy of the game to play and sometimes they give you a Steam Key. Steam is not thinking about adding a fee for me to play a Non Steam Game.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Not to mention think of who we're talking about. Microsoft will charge an arm and a leg. Now, they aren't quite as expensive as Sony, but with these new extra fees, it's gonna add up quick, people.

Steam is EXTREMELY cheap.


----------



## Fernin (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Arshes Nei said:


> That isn't entirely good comparison. Steam allows me to play games I have purchased elsewhere. I don't need a Steam Key to add a game to my library or pay a fee. I buy a game from Amazon, GOG, Humble Bundle, direct from publisher, etc... I can get a copy of the game to play and sometimes they give you a Steam Key. Steam is not thinking about adding a fee for me to play a Non Steam Game.



You're also buying those PC games new, as in you're the first person to buy that particular copy of the game. Good luck buying and using USED pc games now a days. And as for the steam key, all that is is gives you access to the digitally distributed copy on steam, it has nothing to do with anything beyond access to a digital copy of the game.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Your argument against mine is irrelevant. Steam doesn't prohibit me from purchasing my goods elsewhere or is concerned about it. Xbox on the other hand is by trying to impose a fee.

I am well aware what a Steam Key is and that's the point. Steam doesn't interfere or nose around what games I put on my PC for the most part. So if I got a game elsewhere that gave me a key I could use it. If the key was used, it still doesn't doesn't prohibit me from playing a copy of a game used or otherwise


----------



## Sweetheartz22 (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Not going to lie, this one post has turned my day into a bad one.


----------



## Runefox (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Fernin said:


> You're also buying those PC games new, as in you're the first person to buy that particular copy of the game.


And, typically, they are dramatically reduced in price. Even at launch, many AAA titles are $49 on Steam instead of $59, and often go on sale for half that (not to mention sites like GreenManGaming that offer other discounts as well). During Steam sales, entire franchises and publisher catalogues can be had for the price of a new console game.



> Good luck buying and using USED pc games now a days.


The difference here is that it's incredibly easy and was until a time common for games to be copied by simply installing it on another computer. I know in my childhood, I did this with Duke Nukem 3D, Command & Conquer, Unreal Tournament, and C&C Tiberian Sun, among many others. Instead of one copy actually being one copy circulating, it becomes multiple copies, especially once CD and DVD burners became commonplace. This is why used PC games don't exist. As a platform, it's impossible to do without implicitly enabling piracy, and this is also the only way Microsoft can do discless gameplay on the XBOne.

Thing is, Microsoft still charges full retail or very near it for games on XBL, as does Sony on PSN and Nintendo on E-Shop. For example, NHL 13 is still $59 on the XBox Marketplace, same as retail. Metro Last Light is $59, the same price as retail, on PSN. Luigi's Mansion 2 on Nintendo E-Shop is $39.99, again, same as retail.

On Steam, Metro Last Light is $49.99 brand new, or $39.99 for a Steam code at GameFanShop until May 26. Hell, even EA's Origin service has FIFA 13 on for $39 for PC while the console versions are $59. Notice how Steam isn't the only place you can actually buy games, and the pricing is different depending on the distributor, and this doesn't really apply to the console market.

Oh, and GreenManGaming (as is typical for them) has a global 25% off voucher on right now that *stacks *with other sale pricing:
*
GMG25-55FJ7-ADQ3P*

(You're welcome)

The console gaming market adjusts pricing to account for rentals, lending, used copies, etc in the cost of doing business. In the PC world, that's no longer necessary, and piracy is no longer the major concern it once was (a determined individual can of course pirate a game, but most people will be frustrated by any attempt to simply copy the game). Valve and other distributors no longer fear it (Ubisoft, ActiBlizzard and EA do, but that's because they're all evil; Ubi seems to have learned their lesson, and EA hopefully has with Sim City), and in fact piracy is looked down upon in the wake of such pricing and a general respect for developers who understand this concept. Not that chivalry means anything, but it's clear there are very big differences between how this is handled by console distributors and PC distributors.

It does not appear that Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo have any intention of following the Valve / Origin model, and they can't be trusted to because there isn't a precedent in the console market - The market will bear that price. In fact, for a while (in Canada at least), new releases were unabashedly priced at $69. Remember what Bobby Kotick said - If he could, he'd charge way more than $59 for Activision's games. That's apparent in the company's blatant refusal to follow the pricing trend on Steam, though they do offer "free weekends" with some 25-33% discounts midway through their release cycle to rekindle interest, which is more than can be said for their efforts on the console market. Even so, the most common holdouts pricing-wise are those from companies whose business models revolve around console gaming.


----------



## Golden (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



lilyWhite said:


> Look at _Friday the 13th_ on NES. _Daikatana_ on the PC. _Haze_ for PS3.
> 
> Long story short, "bad" games always have and always will exist. Though given that the new _SimCity_ has sold well and has players that enjoy it, perhaps the problem is more that modern gamers are convinced that anything _they_ dislike is _undeniably_ poor quality.
> 
> (And this is coming from someone who has played _SimCity_ and thought to herself, _How do people find games like this fun?_)



Of course there always have been and there always will be bad games; you're missing my point.

I feel as if the general trend is that publishers prefer good graphics and user friendliness (the ability to pick up and play a game), as opposed to good writing, depth, and originality. The latter consumes too many resources and the former appeals to a larger audience.

I never said I disliked new games. I simply believe that publishers constantly shaft loyal fans in pursuit of a more mainstream audience that simply isn't as interested in a well-written game with depth.

Back to Sim City, I promise you that there isn't a single longtime fan that is enjoying that game more than any of the older ones; its a completely different game, with emphasis on graphics and simplicity. The concept of the game has changed from a simulation allowing users to create a lifelike city into a social app not unlike the crap made by Zynga. As a result, most of the players that currently enjoy it are new to the series as a whole.



secretfur said:


> Oh it's still pretty shitty, except now when a company pulls out they don't donkey punch you.
> 
> Hopefully Sony don't make the same stupid mistakes as MS, maybe that's  why they're still holding back on PS4 info. I blame piracy for this  mess. It's been going on for too long without any serious repercussions,  now it hits all at once. I have bad feels for all the PS2 games I  downloaded :c



Agreed.


----------



## Stratelier (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Arshes Nei said:


> That isn't entirely good comparison. Steam allows me to play games I have purchased elsewhere. I don't need a Steam Key to add a game to my library or pay a fee. I buy a game from Amazon, GOG, Humble Bundle, direct from publisher, etc... I can get a copy of the game to play and sometimes they give you a Steam Key. Steam is not thinking about adding a fee for me to play a Non Steam Game.



I'm betting a Steam key is good more or less once?  In which case the comparison isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

I mean, if you pick up an XB1 game used, where did that copy come from again?  From someone else who purchased it new.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> I'm betting a Steam key is good more or less once?  In which case the comparison isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.
> 
> I mean, if you pick up an XB1 game used, where did that copy come from again?  From someone else who purchased it new.



Have you actually used Steam?

A Steam key doesn't prevent a person using a game, it just has Steam keep a digital copy of said game for your account. If I buy other games, Steam is not interfering with me playing those games. The only interference I get isn't from the "Game host" ie Steam, but The manufacturer and their anti piracy measures. If I can't use the Steam key it's irrelevant. I can just go to "add a non Steam game" and play it, or just play it on my PC. Steam is nice enough to give you the option to launch it through their interface.

I could buy a game off Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=Mayhem Deals?ie=UTF8&docId=1000716161 (since there is an 80% certain games sale) whether used or not (if I bought a 3rd party seller game that has been used) I can get through whatever DRM difficulties it may have, and not get a steam Key. No big deal. Tell Steam to add it to my library when I launch it. People on my friends list will just know I'm playing a game but it's "non steam"

That's why saying a used game with a fee is a bad comparison to Steam. Steam doesn't care nor care to control what games you play through other means. Xbox imposing a fee on a used game to run it is problematic.


----------



## Seekrit (May 22, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Arshes Nei said:


> I could buy a game off Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=Mayhem%20Deals?ie=UTF8&docId=1000716161 (since there is an 80% certain games sale)



My god, those deals... I need a moment. I have to tell everyone about this.

Dammit how come 'murrica always get the best things?


----------



## Willow (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Arshes Nei said:


> Your argument against mine is irrelevant. Steam doesn't prohibit me from purchasing my goods elsewhere or is concerned about it. Xbox on the other hand is by trying to impose a fee.


I figure it's much like buying software, where you only get a certain number of downloads and then it's useless. But instead of just outright saying "you can't use this anywhere else" they just impose a fee to compensate. 

Not to say it's the most sensible thing to do but to be perfectly honest, it's more in the interest of the game developers than the customer sad to say.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



secretfur said:


> My god, those deals... I need a moment. I have to tell everyone about this.
> 
> Dammit how come 'murrica always get the best things?



Mushihimesama Futari
DoDonPachi 1-5
Darius Burst
ESPGaluda II
Thunder Force 6
Ketsui

America doesn't get those! Q^Q


----------



## Seekrit (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> Mushihimesama Futari
> DoDonPachi 1-5
> Darius Burst
> ESPGaluda II
> ...



Quiet, Pachi! You've had too much weeaboo juice, go home.


----------



## DarrylWolf (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

And you know that a team of hackers will eventually find a way around this used game lock and it will become common knowledge how to play used video games on the Xbox 720, ro whatever they call it. You are telling your customers not to buy from you.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



secretfur said:


> Quiet, Pachi! You've had too much weeaboo juice, go home.



I don't play JRPG's, doe.


----------



## Runefox (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> I'm betting a Steam key is good more or less once?  In which case the comparison isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.


Not sure how you're interpreting that, but yes, a Steam key is good once. That ties it to your account, similar to how Microsoft is going to do it. However, unlike Microsoft, you can purchase these keys from other vendors at steep discounts, and often from Steam itself at steep discounts. In addition, you can play and install games on the computer that aren't in fact remotely related to Steam. You aren't tied to Steam's DRM globally, hell, some games don't use Steam keys at all.



> I mean, if you pick up an XB1 game used, where did that copy come from again?  From someone else who purchased it new.


If you pick up an XB1 game used, you're paying full price for it. Unless you meant the original X-Box, in which case, I'll play devil's advocate. The developers only get the first sale. This is fine if you're selling it to a friend, but bringing it into EB Games or something so they can mark it up 1000% is something entirely different - They're building a business around undercutting the games that they're selling new and cannibalizing sales of new copies. Mainly, I blame EB Games and their culture of gouging for this

Enter digital distribution, the devs get full compensation every time the game is sold. At the same time, in a fair system (like with Steam), the customer also benefits from globally lower pricing that often matches or beats the used price of these games in EB Games / etc.

This is why MSFT is doing this and why EA did the Online Pass programme. However, MSFT is *clearly* not going to implement a fair system, and this is a loss overall. One of the main advantages of having a console, being the portability of those games, is completely removed.


----------



## Seekrit (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



XoPachi said:


> I don't play JRPG's, doe.



Splittin' hairs, bro. Absurdly styled blue hairs.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

To explain the Portability of the game. Xbox has the item DOWNLOAD to the console's hard drive. So even if the game itself is tied to your account, I don't think people may appreciate their friend/relatve hogging up space on the hard drive for their game that only the owner could play (unless the person pays the fee and is interested in that game). 

Like say your cousins coming over to play the latest Madden. It may not be a big deal if it's occasionally and delete the game out. But sharing a console (which parents will do with family) is going to be a pain in the ass if Xbox is gonna play Gatekeeper trying to examine every game and download it.


----------



## Stratelier (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> In addition, you can play and install games on the computer that aren't in fact remotely related to Steam.


And . . . what?  Water under the bridge, PC as a platform has always been that way.



DarrylWolf said:


> And you know that a team of hackers will eventually find a way around this used game lock and it will become common knowledge how to play used video games on the Xbox 720, ro whatever they call it. You are telling your customers not to buy from you.



Every DRM has been broken, client-server is just the toughest because half of it is out of your control.  I _could_ imagine the equivalent of a DDOS if hackers are able to somehow 'use up' and tie a number of game keys to their accounts (thus making XBL treat the game as 'used' even when it was purchased new), but that's why MS has an administrative team overseeing XBL . . . to spot anomolous activity and put a stop to it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

Not everyone buys a single game "new" for themselves. I used to split costs on games with friends. Instead of going out and buying 1 game at X cost, friend and I would buy 2 games and share the games. Then you have game rentals. These still exist with Redbox especially.


----------



## Runefox (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Stratadrake said:


> And . . . what?  Water under the bridge, PC as a platform has always been that way.


Basically, what I'm saying and what Arshes is saying is, you don't HAVE to buy on Steam, you don't HAVE to use Steam's distribution or DRM, and you don't HAVE to pay what Valve's price is. Even on the platform itself, there are others who sell the Steam keys for less than Valve does. This is something you absolutely can't get under the new model MSFT is pushing, and furthermore MSFT is NOT going to price fairly, because there is no reason or precedent for them to. You're going to be forced into this.

EDIT: Oh, hey, the XBOne will reserve 3GB of RAM for the OS. They mentioned they had SRAM for the GPU to constantly be fed data - This is probably nothing more than cache RAM. 16MB or 32MB is probably how much there will be, and this is probably also the case for Sony, since they use the same CPU/GPU combination.


----------



## Ozriel (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Arshes Nei said:


> Not everyone buys a single game "new" for themselves. I used to split costs on games with friends. Instead of going out and buying 1 game at X cost, friend and I would buy 2 games and share the games. Then you have game rentals. These still exist with Redbox especially.



You also have Gamefly which does a lot of game rentals the same way Netflix does movies.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Arshes Nei said:


> To explain the Portability of the game. Xbox has the item DOWNLOAD to the console's hard drive. So even if the game itself is tied to your account, I don't think people may appreciate their friend/relatve hogging up space on the hard drive for their game that only the owner could play (unless the person pays the fee and is interested in that game).
> 
> Like say your cousins coming over to play the latest Madden. It may not be a big deal if it's occasionally and delete the game out. But sharing a console (which parents will do with family) is going to be a pain in the ass if Xbox is gonna play *Gatekeeper* trying to examine every game and download it.



Watch your damn mouth.




May be called XBox One, but Gatekeeper IS the ONE!


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 23, 2013)

Seeing as the "You Laugh You Lose" thread is getting rather bogged down with this, I thought it'd be best to create a thread dedicated to discussing the Xbox One and all aspects of it. Just share your thoughts on it here. (EDIT: it's just been merged with the "New xbox will have used disc fee" thread, so yeah).



Me? Whilst I think the hardware is good and the controller looks nice, pretty much everything else about it is horrible. Constant Kinect connection required, a fee for used games, installing games onto the hard drive instead of running it off the disc (and thus taking up more memory), the way it looks like a bulky VHS player, its name... I could go on forever. What ever the fuck Microsoft are thinking I shall never know.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 23, 2013)

XBoxOne taking 359 steps back


----------



## Ikrit (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


>


oh boy
tomorrow's console with yesterday's graphics
nothing new here


----------



## CannonFodder (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Ikrit said:


> oh boy
> tomorrow's console with yesterday's graphics
> nothing new here


The funny thing is that the people that were cheering to the console were from the microsoft section of the audience.


----------



## Seekrit (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



CannonFodder said:


> The funny thing is that the people that were cheering to the console were from the microsoft section of the audience.



'There are five Chinamen ready to replace each and every one of you. They do not require adequate pay or basic rights. Now, cheer'.

I'm never going to buy one of these machines, but I am curious about the new franchises that will be on it. Are they Xbox exclusive does anyone know?


----------



## Ikrit (May 23, 2013)

the graphics look like they got even worst really....or maybe i'm just used to my computer graphics by now...


----------



## Shay Feral (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> This is why MSFT is doing this and why EA did the Online Pass programme. However, MSFT is *clearly* not going to implement a fair system, and this is a loss overall. One of the main advantages of having a console, being the portability of those games, is completely removed.



I just wanna derp in on this.

As I understand it, you don't have to _install_ these games to play them. But when you do play, that disc is registered to your account but not your console. Wouldn't it still be possible to download your profile to your friend's console and still play the game?


----------



## Stratelier (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> EDIT: Oh, hey, the XBOne will reserve 3GB of RAM for the OS.


You sure we're talking about a console platform and not a PC?

As for me, none of the XBox exclusive franchises have anything interesting to me.  PS3 took years (a.k.a. until Sly Cooper and Okami HD came out).


----------



## Runefox (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Shay Feral said:


> As I understand it, you don't have to _install_ these games to play them.


Installs are actually mandatory.



> But when you do play, that disc is registered to your account but not your console. Wouldn't it still be possible to download your profile to your friend's console and still play the game?


Correct. However, this only works if you bring the disc over. Lending or trading the game means they need to buy it again. Also, have you ever re-downloaded a profile? Even on a fast connection, that takes like 10 minutes or more for no reason.


----------



## Shay Feral (May 23, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*



Runefox said:


> Correct. However, this only works if you bring the disc over. Lending or trading the game means they need to buy it again. Also, have you ever re-downloaded a profile? Even on a fast connection, that takes like 10 minutes or more for no reason.



I have, and I don't remember it taking 10 minutes... Well, regardless of the amount of time, I keep a copy of my XBL profile on my friend's 360 console; so all I do is just type in my password and get to it.

But what about transferring the profile onto something like a flash drive, is that still possible?


----------



## CannonFodder (May 23, 2013)

So how many people are enjoying all these jokes at the xbox one?


----------



## Stratelier (May 23, 2013)

Jokes?  You mean stupid stuff like if it isn't received well it may as well be the _ex_-box?


----------



## Seekrit (May 23, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> So how many people are enjoying all these jokes at the xbox one?



They were funny for a while, but now it's just sad. It's like laughing at a dying man's jokes.


----------



## Corto (May 24, 2013)

Ikrit said:


> the graphics look like they got even worst really....or maybe i'm just used to my computer graphics by now...


If someone replaced that with a picture of the first Modern Warfare I doubt anyone would notice.

Actually I think Activision should pay for the development of new camo for US army forces only so I can tell these games apart.


----------



## Teal (May 24, 2013)

Ikrit said:


> the graphics look like they got even worst really....or maybe i'm just used to my computer graphics by now...


 They do look worse.


----------



## Fernin (May 24, 2013)

Teal said:


> They do look worse.



This is also the CoD engine we're talking about, they were mentioning volumetics and self shadowing as new shit, and generally billing features games have been using for the past decade as all new. All new to CoDs engine maybe, which is about a decade behind the times...


----------



## HereKittyKitty (May 24, 2013)

I'm not that big of a gamer and I don't know all the nitty-gritty technological stuff that goes into making all this stuff, so I could very well be wrong about this.
However, it seems pretty clear that instead of introducing a new generation of consoles because there was a big advance in technology that could legitimately improve the gaming experience, they just thought "hey, it's been awhile, let's put some new bells on the old system and see if we can't bleed our customers dry."  It's ridiculous.

Also, I really liked how Cracked handled the news: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/5-features-new-xbox-that-are-about-to-ruin-everything/


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 24, 2013)

In the light of all this I can safely say my consoles this generation will be Wii U and PS4, maybe Steambox if that looks good when it's announced.


----------



## Stratelier (May 24, 2013)

HereKittyKitty said:


> Also, I really liked how Cracked handled the news: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/5-features-new-xbox-that-are-about-to-ruin-everything/


I like the "cloud" argument.  The one that says the bulk of processing is on the network and your console is basically just streaming it.  No, EA, hardware manufacturers don't spend years developing ridiculously powerful hardware just for you to NOT use it.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 24, 2013)

I'm hoping Cave is not Microsoft exclusive next gen. Hell, I'd rather them go Wii U only.


----------



## Runefox (May 24, 2013)

Soooooo... Microsoft is briefing retailers on how used game trade-ins will work. It's more insidious than you'd think - They're allowing retailers to take used games from customers, but they A) need to report it to Microsoft, B) need a brand new Windows Azure setup to do so, C) then sell the used game at full retail. D) The game is wiped from the original console remotely, likely explaining the 24h check-in.

Yeah.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 24, 2013)

After Microsoft's Xbox One conference, the chart position of the Wii U on Amazon UK jumped from #390 to #40. That's an 875% increase, which is _huge_. This is only the beginning of the Xbox One's failure......


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 24, 2013)

WiiU sales went up. I can't blame people. I mean a WiiU is still for gaming and people who are depending on "hardcore" gaming have PS4 and PC. I know people may not like the library or are entirely dependent upon graphics, but at least it remembers people want to PLAY games...not worry about OWNING them.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/wii-u-sales-boost-following-xbox-one-reveal/0116135

The thing is I actually like the fact they took into account that that the WiiU console is a family unit, and while people may have bitched about the tablet, allowing your kid to play the game on the tablet while the other family member may want to watch something else, well it works.


----------



## Corto (May 24, 2013)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/24/microsoft-over-1-billion-next-gen-consoles-will-be-sold

Microsoft is so out of touch with everyone that isn't living in the US (let alone outside of Silicon Valley) that it's actually kind of sad.


----------



## Teal (May 24, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> After Microsoft's Xbox One conference, the chart position of the Wii U on Amazon UK jumped from #390 to #40. That's an 875% increase, which is _huge_. This is only the beginning of the Xbox One's failure......


 Nice.


----------



## Seekrit (May 24, 2013)

Corto said:


> http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/24/microsoft-over-1-billion-next-gen-consoles-will-be-sold
> 
> Microsoft is so out of touch with everyone that isn't living in the US (let alone outside of Silicon Valley) that it's actually kind of sad.



At least the 360 will keep going for another few years. Only good thing about this console launch.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> WiiU sales went up. I can't blame people.



875% on Amazon...
Microsoft, how do you fucking feel?


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> 875% on Amazon...
> Microsoft, how do you fucking feel?



I don't know about Microsoft, but I bet Reggie and Saturo Iwata both have a big smile on their face today.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 24, 2013)

Same with Sony, lol.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (May 24, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw&list=FL43A4zgkCMD8PpsmfIaT3tw&index=1


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 24, 2013)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw&list=FL43A4zgkCMD8PpsmfIaT3tw&index=1



John Logie Baird would be proud to hear his invention named so many times.


----------



## Teal (May 24, 2013)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw&list=FL43A4zgkCMD8PpsmfIaT3tw&index=1


 Yup.


----------



## lupinealchemist (May 24, 2013)

Looks like the One stands for One out of 5. I miss Sessler.


----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Soooooo... Microsoft is briefing retailers on how used game trade-ins will work. It's more insidious than you'd think - They're allowing retailers to take used games from customers, but they A) need to report it to Microsoft, B) need a brand new Windows Azure setup to do so, C) then sell the used game at full retail. D) The game is wiped from the original console remotely, likely explaining the 24h check-in.
> 
> Yeah.



All the same, what right do they have to tell me I have to make an Xbox Live account to even use the console? What right does any company have to say that I have to have a mandatory internet connection just to use a gaming console?


----------



## Captain Howdy (May 24, 2013)

The Xbox One (a very stupid name) thus far has shown the death of the game console - It has more to do with non-gaming than anything else, and thus has just become another expensive box to place by ones' telly for various purposes, and just so happens to be able to play vidya games. 

I'm not buying it one bit, not buying into it at all. The always-on Kinect requirement is creepy and Skynet-inducing enough, but the essentially always-on internet too? Fuck off. They're playing semantics in trying to avoid saying they're using the form of DRM that is 'always on' internet. As far as I've read, they don't explicitly require always-on internet, but they _do__n't_ allow dev's to create offline content, and thus the gaming must be online, even if it's single player. It's the'ol switch-er-oo.


----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

Lastdirewolf said:


> The Xbox One (a very stupid name) thus far has shown the death of the game console - It has more to do with non-gaming than anything else, and thus has just become another expensive box to place by ones' telly for various purposes, and just so happens to be able to play vidya games.
> 
> I'm not buying it one bit, not buying into it at all. The always-on Kinect requirement is creepy and Skynet-inducing enough, but the essentially always-on internet too? Fuck off. They're playing semantics in trying to avoid saying they're using the form of DRM that is 'always on' internet. As far as I've read, they don't explicitly require always-on internet, but they _do__n't_ allow dev's to create offline content, and thus the gaming must be online, even if it's single player. It's the'ol switch-er-oo.



Not so much the death of the game console itself so much as the death of MS as a viable player in the console market. At some point though I'm willing to bet that the diehards will likely find a way to severe the X1 from the internet and still keep it work as if it were. It might even at some point become a viable business where people will take the consoles a shop to have them modified. Its not illegal it will just void any warrenty you have with the console itself and likely get you locked from XBox Live with that console itself.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 24, 2013)

Best part of that video...
The people in the little Price is Right snippet did more clapping than the audience.


----------



## Captain Howdy (May 24, 2013)

thoron said:


> Not so much the death of the game console itself so much as the death of MS as a viable player in the console market. At some point though I'm willing to bet that the diehards will likely find a way to severe the X1 from the internet and still keep it work as if it were. It might even at some point become a viable business where people will take the consoles a shop to have them modified. Its not illegal it will just void any warrenty you have with the console itself and likely get you locked from XBox Live with that console itself.



I think it's a bit of both - The Xbox line is no longer a game console, but rather an entertainment system, so it might sell well enough - just that it won't be a top-selling game console, and will instead be a top-selling entertainment box - Like the Wii. I doubt it'll sell significant numbers in general, but PC gaming will become at an all-time high after this year, unless MIcrosoft becomes a dick and severs the ties to the PC...which seems unlikely.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 24, 2013)




----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


>



I thought a TV was needed for console gaming anyway?


----------



## Schwimmwagen (May 24, 2013)

thoron said:


> I thought a TV was needed for console gaming anyway?



I use a flowerpot

fucking casuals ITT


----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

Gibby said:


> I use a flowerpot
> 
> fucking casuals ITT



Thats real new generation gaming right there.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 24, 2013)

http://angelfire93.tumblr.com/post/51239355013/alright-if-youre-a-consumer-and-youre


----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> http://angelfire93.tumblr.com/post/51239355013/alright-if-youre-a-consumer-and-youre



And the reasons why nobody is liking the system. I'm more than certain that some may end up taking apart an X1 and making so that it can function without and internet connection or kinect.


----------



## Artillery Spam (May 24, 2013)

Quitting gaming 4ever now.


----------



## Percy (May 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> http://angelfire93.tumblr.com/post/51239355013/alright-if-youre-a-consumer-and-youre


Welp, now I'm not buying the system even more now.


----------



## Ikrit (May 24, 2013)

first window 8

now xbox one

it's like they are conducting their own experiment to see how low they can go before their sales reach 0


----------



## Teal (May 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> http://angelfire93.tumblr.com/post/51239355013/alright-if-youre-a-consumer-and-youre


 It just keeps getting worse and worse.


----------



## Runefox (May 24, 2013)

To be fair, the WiiU has plenty of TV functions, with TVii and a TV remote function built into the tablet controller.

But, y'know, it works and isn't US-only.


----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> To be fair, the WiiU has plenty of TV functions, with TVii and a TV remote function built into the tablet controller.
> 
> But, y'know, it works and isn't US-only.



And they aren't trying the BS that MS is trying with its one time use. They also don't require internet connection to use the console either which I'm pretty sure requiring internet connection for the games or console work is bordering on illegal unless the game was downloaded off the internet.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 24, 2013)

Kinect is now turning into a primitive form of HAL 3000.


----------



## lilyWhite (May 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> http://angelfire93.tumblr.com/post/51239355013/alright-if-youre-a-consumer-and-youre



It took roughly ten seconds to reach an argument mentioned there based on complete and utter ignorance.

And, lo and behold, I'm not surprised at all about that.

(And that's even with ignoring the arguments made based on articles which don't actually use official word from Microsoft as a source.)


----------



## thoron (May 24, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> It took roughly ten seconds to reach an argument mentioned there based on complete and utter ignorance.
> 
> And, lo and behold, I'm not surprised at all about that.
> 
> (And that's even with ignoring the arguments made based on articles which don't actually use official word from Microsoft as a source.)



Some of its a little tin hat, but the parts about the locks being placed on used games pretty much have been confirmed my MS itself.


----------



## lilyWhite (May 24, 2013)

thoron said:


> Some of its a little tin hat, but the parts about the locks being placed on used games pretty much have been confirmed my MS itself.



And with that (and a few other things), the information is incomplete or is contradicted by official Microsoft statements due to being based off of inaccurate articles not based off of Microsoft's statements on the Xbox One.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 24, 2013)

And let the war begin.


----------



## Runefox (May 24, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> And with that (and a few other things), the information is incomplete or is contradicted by official Microsoft statements due to being based off of inaccurate articles not based off of Microsoft's statements on the Xbox One.


Actually, XBox execs let most of this information out of the bag when pressed by reporters, and since then Microsoft has redacted it and said that everything mentioned so far is a potential scenario. Sounds like damage control.

Either way, Microsoft should have either come clean about it or told everyone to shut the hell up.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 24, 2013)

It gets better-
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 24, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> It gets better-
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements



Now that's just fucking stupid.


----------



## Teal (May 24, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> It gets better-
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements


 That's just sad.


----------



## Artillery Spam (May 24, 2013)

I want an achievement system for eating fast food.

2 Whoppers consumed in two minutes? 30 points to Fatass Score. 

40 frosties downed within one week? 60 points to Fatass Score.


----------



## Teal (May 24, 2013)

You know, I can't wait for the E3.


----------



## Stratelier (May 25, 2013)

Runefox said:


> To be fair, the WiiU has plenty of TV functions, with TVii and a TV remote function built into the tablet controller.


The TV remote functionality is admittedly pretty basic, but still pretty darn cool.  Much quicker to turn the TV set on/off when I start/stop playing for awhile.


----------



## Runefox (May 25, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> The TV remote functionality is admittedly pretty basic, but still pretty darn cool.  Much quicker to turn the TV set on/off when I start/stop playing for awhile.


Yup. Actually, my roommate has the tablet controller on top of his computer tower, pointed at the TV. He just turns his chair and uses the TV remote function. Pretty neat, though it speaks volumes for the currently available library of games for the WiiU, or lack thereof.


----------



## Stratelier (May 25, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Kinect is now turning into a primitive form of HAL 3000.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> You know, I can't wait for the E3.


I don't know how they could possibly make something even more stupid but msot of this stuff they confirmed to be true well exceed my expectations on how stupid a company could get.


----------



## Seekrit (May 25, 2013)

Artillery Spam said:


> I want an achievement system for eating fast food.
> 
> 2 Whoppers consumed in two minutes? 30 points to Fatass Score.
> 
> 40 frosties downed within one week? 60 points to Fatass Score.



Achievement Unlocked: Intelligent and Handsome Consumer
Sit for 12 hours covered in pizza stains wearing crusty underwear.

As a reward you will be given a 2% discount on your next Live purchase! Subject to availability and terms and conditions. US only.


----------



## Demensa (May 25, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> It gets better-
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-24-microsoft-applies-for-patent-on-tv-achievements



And now there will not only be people who play games for achievements, but people who leave their xbox on when they're not even using it, to get those precious TV achievements.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 25, 2013)

Now don't get me wrong, I LIKE the idea of achievements and trophies. I already enjoy the satisfaction of killing Hibachi on one credit or finding all the sun medals in Sonic. So being minorly rewarded for the dedication is nice.
But I found achievements that just activated for passive reasons like "start up the game" (I am DEAD fucking serious, there are legit achievements for that) to be stupid. This is just more of those pansy ones.

But I can see what the harder ones could be like and if they have rewards:
Watch Twilight saga:
Remove DRM from console.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> But I can see what the harder ones could be like and if they have rewards:
> Watch Twilight saga:
> Remove DRM from console.



Watch _The Room _​without laughing once:
Xbox One functions without Kinect.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 25, 2013)

What if your family is using the Xbox account that you use, and you're at your friends house playing the same game on their account?

Also why would you need to enter a code for everything. Talk about obnoxious as having to deal with phone menus.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 25, 2013)

Is that ACTUALLY by Sony or fan made? ROFL!


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 25, 2013)

Wasn't the whole point of owning a game console was to have something less complicated to play games with? Why all this bullshit to play a game? Piracy issues aside to prevent games being copied.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 25, 2013)

I'm not saying anyone here has said it, but you know, I'm already seeing the "Well if you're not buying it, stfu". 
Though yes, that has merit to it, it's not that simple though I will stop talking about it eventually.

 I liked the original Xbox, and love my 360 to pieces even with it's current minor flaws and P2P. It had all my needs for console exclusives. It catered to my niche tastes with a great versatile controller and almost always had the superior versions of exclusive console multiplats like Sonic Unleashed and Bayonetta.
 But it's like how I feel about Nintendo now. I demand _better_. I don't want regression from a gaming company that I've liked for what has it been? Damn near a decade? I want something hassle free that isn't essentially putting fucking taxes on video games and Hell, entertainment period. 

And who's to say it ends with this console? These are HORRIBLE practices that Microsoft (keep very very FUCKING close in mind what company this is) could implement outside of gaming. It's about money and if this thing by some divine prank does take off, they may see it as an OK to go ahead and slip these methods into other things they create...

Like Windows. 
Small possibility, but hey, creepy things happen in Nowhere.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (May 25, 2013)

I haven't seen anyone defend the xbox one and i feel pity for those that do since it is so damn hard to defend it.


----------



## Teal (May 25, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> I haven't seen anyone defend and i feel pity for those that do since it is so damn hard to defend it.


 Name something positive about it.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> Name something positive about it.



that's why i imagine it being so hard to defend the xbox one X3


----------



## zachhart12 (May 25, 2013)

I'm pissed the fuck off at the no backwards compatibility and the stupid ass fee for used games.  Da FUQ?!?!?  :c.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> Name something positive about it.



The controller. I do have to admit I think it looks pretty nice and functional. I'd say it's the only positive thing about the Xbox One.


----------



## Teal (May 25, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> The controller. I do have to admit I think it looks pretty nice and functional. I'd say it's the only positive thing about the Xbox One.


 Of everywhere I've looked and everyone I asked that's the ONLY positive.


----------



## Runefox (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> Name something positive about it.


Kinect 2 seems better than the first one? Though that's like saying one shiny turd smells worse than another...


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 25, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Kinect 2 seems better than the first one? Though that's like saying one shiny turd smells worse than another...



The technology may be better but what it's used for is still shit.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> Name something positive about it.



...It's not that bad to look at? :/



Runefox said:


> Kinect 2 seems better than the first one? Though that's like saying one shiny turd smells worse than another...



You know that's the real sad thing. Kinect IS great technology and a very fun concept, but it's just not implemented well at all. Especially not when they want to use it in gaming.


----------



## Teal (May 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> ...It's not that bad to look at? :/


 It looks like an ugly VCR.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> It looks like an ugly VCR.



I'd say it looks _worse _​than an ugly VCR.


----------



## Seekrit (May 25, 2013)

Teal said:


> It looks like an ugly VCR.





Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> I'd say it looks _worse _â€‹than an ugly VCR.



Hey. If that was a VCR it'd be the sexiest one on the market.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 25, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Hey. If that was a VCR it'd be the sexiest one on the market.



Hmm. Let me rephrase: I've seen VCRs which look better.


----------



## Teal (May 25, 2013)

A game console should not be able to be confused for a VCR.


----------



## Drake Ukkonen (May 25, 2013)

My thoughts are, I'm switching to Sony and I'm going to start wearing big boy underwear


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## Runefox (May 25, 2013)

Eh, everyone makes the VCR comment, but I think it looks closer to a home theatre receiver. But with that said...

It's seriously too bad it doesn't also act as one of those. That would put this squarely in the middle of the home theatre market, and the ONLY box in front of the TV. Who needs a separate surround receiver? A PVR? A blu-ray player? A game console? Plus, you could sell speaker packages and put surround sound in every home. If MSFT were truly serious about being the all-in-one box, they didn't push hard enough. They're in danger of completely neglecting the games, and if they're going to do that, you've got to go further and handle it all.

And you know what? It might honestly be worth the money then, and especially if the games wind up on the console and they backpedal on the used games issue. But I guess it all depends on what "the money" is.


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## Judge Spear (May 25, 2013)

Runefox...
Will you make a new Xbox for us?


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## Stratelier (May 25, 2013)

zachhart12 said:


> I'm pissed the fuck off at the no backwards compatibility ... Da FUQ?!?!?  :c.


It's a completely different programming architecture (x86-based, whereas the 360 was proprietary) meaning that the old machine code simply *won't work* on the new box.  Like trying to run old MS-DOS games on XP, it just ain't happening without some outside help.

At least Sony has announced plans for some kind of emulation, and _hasn't_ insulted backwards compatibility in the process....



Arshes Nei said:


> Wasn't the whole point of owning a game console was to have something less complicated to play games with? Why all this bullshit to play a game? Piracy issues aside to prevent games being copied.



I wager that the actual impact of all the news is probably not as great as people criticize it to be.

For example, if you buy a game, install to your box, and generally play it from there only, you don't encounter any issues.

And judging from what's been said about the used-games angle . . . it seems clear that MS doesn't want to kill the used game market so much as just cash in on it.  And to do that, they need a reliable way to confirm when a person has given sold their disc to a used-game shop ... hence the proprietary system to "check in" the game and flag the previous owner's license on it for uninstall (at which point that game disc is effectively "new" again and another person can just purchase/install/play it).


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## Runefox (May 26, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> It's a completely different programming architecture (x86-based, whereas the 360 was proprietary) meaning that the old machine code simply *won't work* on the new box.  Like trying to run old MS-DOS games on XP, it just ain't happening without some outside help.


Actually, with an ISA sound card, DOS games (at least, the ones that also work on Win9x) will usually work alright on XP without any help for the most part. But that's splitting hairs; They did create a compatibility layer between x86 and PowerPC when they released the 360 (original XBox was a 733MHz Pentium 3-based system), they could certainly have done the same thing in the opposite direction if they had a mind to. They just didn't have a mind to.


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## Willow (May 26, 2013)

zachhart12 said:


> I'm pissed the fuck off at the no backwards compatibility and the stupid ass fee for used games.  Da FUQ?!?!?  :c.


Well if you have a 360, that's more reason to keep your 360 and it's not that big of a deal. 



Teal said:


> It looks like an ugly VCR.


I say it looks more like the Wii to be perfectly honest.


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## Judge Spear (May 26, 2013)

Oh my Fuck, it does...


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 26, 2013)

Well, at least the Wii isn't the size of an early DVD player.


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## Dragonfurry (May 26, 2013)

Once again the Pc gamers win and the console gamers will lose and watch console gaming companies fall apart due to their greed.


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## Arshes Nei (May 26, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> I wager that the actual impact of all the news is probably not as great as people criticize it to be.
> 
> For example, if you buy a game, install to your box, and generally play it from there only, you don't encounter any issues.
> 
> And judging from what's been said about the used-games angle . . . it seems clear that MS doesn't want to kill the used game market so much as just cash in on it.  And to do that, they need a reliable way to confirm when a person has given sold their disc to a used-game shop ... hence the proprietary system to "check in" the game and flag the previous owner's license on it for uninstall (at which point that game disc is effectively "new" again and another person can just purchase/install/play it).



I keep old consoles, because all I have to do is just make sure the lens still works, and the disc isn't scratched. (or you can use FreeMcBoot to use the USB) when I had used my sisters Wii, it got irritating to go through registration stuff on a console. I wondered why I couldn't just use a PC to do it. It's just a lot of extra stuff that makes the consumer wonder why they bothered with a product where using another object is easier.


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## Stratelier (May 26, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Well, at least the Wii isn't the size of an early cellphone.


Fixed


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## Judge Spear (May 26, 2013)

Dragonfurry said:


> Once again the Pc gamers win and the console gamers will lose and watch console gaming companies fall apart due to their greed.



PC gamers have been saying that since the GameCube just different reasons each gen. :I


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 26, 2013)

Microsoft have disabled comments on the Xbox Youtube channel out of pure butthurt. Oh Microsoft, what a juvenile move to make.


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## CannonFodder (May 26, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Microsoft have disabled comments on the Xbox Youtube channel out of pure butthurt. Oh Microsoft, what a juvenile move to make.


That's only going to make it worse.


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## Stratelier (May 26, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Microsoft have disabled comments on the Xbox Youtube channel out of pure butthurt. Oh Microsoft, what a juvenile move to make.



Well, that's not exactly a surprise, is it?


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## Judge Spear (May 26, 2013)

*helicopter of laughter*


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## Dragonfurry (May 27, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> That's only going to make it worse.



Oh the tsumaii of Nerd rage(mostly justified) and Butthurt will be summed by the gods and forum posters all around the internet. They cant stop the power of which they have unleashed! They are doomed! buahahahahaha :V


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## Alastair Snowpaw (May 27, 2013)

So on the xbox 360 when you do offline multiplayer the person who gets on the second controller has to sign into a different account in pretty much all games. the xbox one has games locked to accounts. so if the xbox one does the same thing for multiplayer does that mean poeple will have to pay the fee just to do offline multiplayer? I really hope this issue gets adressed but seeing the streak microsoft is on i wouldn't be surprised if this was true also >.>


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## Teal (May 27, 2013)

Haha soon they'll be trying to make you pay every time you play the game. Or turn the system on.


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## lilyWhite (May 27, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> So on the xbox 360 when you do offline multiplayer the person who gets on the second controller has to sign into a different account in pretty much all games. the xbox one has games locked to accounts. so if the xbox one does the same thing for multiplayer does that mean poeple will have to pay the fee just to do offline multiplayer? I really hope this issue gets adressed but seeing the streak microsoft is on i wouldn't be surprised if this was true also >.>



They've already said that anyone with an account on the console that the game is first installed to will be able to play the game.

I don't blame you for not knowing that, as most people (read: vocal minority) seem intent on completely ignoring the reality of how the Xbox One actually works in favour of complaining about unsubstantiated claims contradicted by what the people who made the Xbox One say about the Xbox One.


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## Schwimmwagen (May 27, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> *helicopter of laughter*



*aircraft personifying mirth*


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## Stratelier (May 28, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> So on the xbox 360 when you do offline multiplayer the person who gets on the second controller has to sign into a different account in pretty much all games. the xbox one has games locked to accounts. so if the xbox one does the same thing for multiplayer does that mean poeple will have to pay the fee just to do offline multiplayer? I really hope this issue gets adressed but seeing the streak microsoft is on i wouldn't be surprised if this was true also >.>


They're probably aware of that.  If the system knows that both players have the game licensed on their accounts then what reason is there _not_ to let them do offline multiplayer, at least?


----------



## Willow (May 28, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Microsoft have disabled comments on the Xbox Youtube channel out of pure butthurt. Oh Microsoft, what a juvenile move to make.


I kind of don't blame them though?? I mean, if people are just going to constantly spam the channel and complain about how much they suck, turning off comments seems like a reasonable thing to do. :/




lilyWhite said:


> They've already said that anyone with an account on the console that the game is first installed to will be able to play the game.


So basically, if you're just playing as a guest (second player), you gain access to player 1's game?



> I don't blame you for not knowing that, as most people (read: vocal minority) seem intent on completely ignoring the reality of how the Xbox One actually works in favour of complaining about unsubstantiated claims contradicted by what the people who made the Xbox One say about the Xbox One.


You mean, people don't actually pay attention? Shocking.


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## Arshes Nei (May 28, 2013)

I hardly think Forbes and other publishers are a "vocal minority" http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/05/27/the-five-biggest-problems-with-the-xbox-one/

Maybe this is a positive... http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2013/05/27/how-xbox-one-will-change-advertising-forever/


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 28, 2013)

Willow said:


> I kind of don't blame them though?? I mean, if people are just going to constantly spam the channel and complain about how much they suck, turning off comments seems like a reasonable thing to do. :/



There's a difference between people's opinions and spam, you know.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 28, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> There's a difference between people's opinions and spam, you know.



True but a lot of YouTube comments ARE spam. I can't blame them for disabling them because they are a pain to clean up the crap abusive comments vs people having legitimate concerns. YouTube comment handling interface wise is subpar. It looks like a mess when you see all the damn comments.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> True but a lot of YouTube comments ARE spam. I can't blame them for disabling them because they are a pain to clean up the crap abusive comments vs people having legitimate concerns. YouTube comment handling interface wise is subpar. It looks like a mess when you see all the damn comments.



Well, when you put it like that I guess it sort of makes sense - only sort of, though. Surely it would have been a better and far wiser decision to put all comments through moderation before they show so only actual opinions go through, rather than stopping comments all together?


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 28, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Well, when you put it like that I guess it sort of makes sense - only sort of, though. Surely it would have been a better and far wiser decision to put all comments through moderation before they show so only actual opinions go through, rather than stopping comments all together?



Then fanboys would bitch about selective comment screening and favoritism. YouTube is really a poor medium to address those kind of concerns to be honest.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Then fanboys would bitch about selective comment screening and favoritism. YouTube is really a poor medium to address those kind of concerns to be honest.



I guess so.


----------



## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Maybe this is a positive... http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2013/05/27/how-xbox-one-will-change-advertising-forever/



Thats not much of a positive sadly unless your a lazy shopaholic who loves to shop but can't be bothered to get up and do actual shopping. Also vocal commands for anything just seems awkward I watch my friends use it with smart phones and I think they look and sound like a bloody fool.

Most of the new features of the XBox One are designed to cater to the niche market of lazy fat asses.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 28, 2013)

thoron said:


> Thats not much of a positive sadly unless your a lazy shopaholic who loves to shop but can't be bothered to get up and do actual shopping. Also vocal commands for anything just seems awkward I watch my friends use it with smart phones and I think they look and sound like a bloody fool.
> 
> Most of the new features of the XBox One are designed to cater to the niche market of lazy fat asses.



I was being sarcastic/facetious. It seems that most of the positives people point out have nothing to do with its gaming capabilities or gaming business model. They may as well call it a listening TiVo, but it can't fulfill that purpose since no dvr/tv recording


----------



## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I was being sarcastic/facetious. It seems that most of the positives people point out have nothing to do with its gaming capabilities or gaming business model. They may as well call it a listening TiVo, but it can't fulfill that purpose since no dvr/tv recording



Yeah, hopefully there will be a massive enough backlash against Microsoft that they will back down on the restrictive features.


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## Stratelier (May 28, 2013)

Hey, anyone see that image in the Forbes article?  Totally made of win.


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## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Hey, anyone see that image in the Forbes article?  Totally made of win.



And in capitalist America when the majority of the consumers aren't happy you go out of business. I wonder if theres a way to screw with the Kinects system so that its not functioning yet but the console itself will still work?


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## Arshes Nei (May 28, 2013)

I like the argument that because it's not backwards compatible you should just keep your xbox360 around. It's not that it's *too terrible* of a position, but that launch time when the opening games are less than spectacular, and you want to have space in your living area for these consoles. With backwards compatibility it gave people that "weaning period" till more titles came out worth purchasing.


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## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I like the argument that because it's not backwards compatible you should just keep your xbox360 around. It's not that it's *too terrible* of a position, but that launch time when the opening games are less than spectacular, and you want to have space in your living area for these consoles. With backwards compatibility it gave people that "weaning period" till more titles came out worth purchasing.



I can't "This" this enough times, how is it that the Wii can play all of the Game Cube games dispite the GC games being a completely different size from Wii games?


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## Hewge (May 28, 2013)

Glad I'm not a console gamer.


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## Taralack (May 28, 2013)

I think at this point I'd rather spend the money on a good graphics card than buy a console. The only thing worth a damn on them atm is Destiny, and I am really really holding out hope that they will decide to release it on PC as well. Compared to all the shit the next gen of consoles is bringing, I think a bit of PC troubleshooting is nothing compared to all the crappy features on an overpriced box.


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## Willow (May 28, 2013)

Toraneko said:


> I think at this point I'd rather spend the money on a good graphics card than buy a console. The only thing worth a damn on them atm is Destiny, and I am really really holding out hope that they will decide to release it on PC as well. Compared to all the shit the next gen of consoles is bringing, I think a bit of PC troubleshooting is nothing compared to all the crappy features on an overpriced box.


If they're a lot of features you know you wouldn't be using sure.


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## Runefox (May 28, 2013)

thoron said:


> And in capitalist America when the majority of the consumers aren't happy you go out of business. I wonder if theres a way to screw with the Kinects system so that its not functioning yet but the console itself will still work?


Just use some duct tape or electrical tape to cover up the 'eye', and do the same thing with the microphone(s), wherever they are. That said, I don't know if you'll be able to power the damned thing on without using voice commands.


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## CannonFodder (May 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Just use some duct tape or electrical tape to cover up the 'eye', and do the same thing with the microphone(s), wherever they are. That said, I don't know if you'll be able to power the damned thing on without using voice commands.


It's going to suck for people that are bed ridden or can't talk if it's required.


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## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Just use some duct tape or electrical tape to cover up the 'eye', and do the same thing with the microphone(s), wherever they are. That said, I don't know if you'll be able to power the damned thing on without using voice commands.



Their discriminating against mutes if thats the case.


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## Stratelier (May 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I like the argument that because it's not backwards compatible you should just keep your xbox360 around. It's not that it's *too terrible* of a position, but that launch time when the opening games are less than spectacular, and you want to have space in your living area for these consoles. With backwards compatibility it gave people that "weaning period" till more titles came out worth purchasing.



Reminds me of what I said back in the PS3 launch.


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## CannonFodder (May 28, 2013)

Sweet fuck!

The price got listed in germany for around 600 euros, or about the $770 ballpark.


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## Runefox (May 28, 2013)

So there are rumours that the PS4 is going to implement a similar used games stance to Microsoft.


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## DarrylWolf (May 28, 2013)

The funny thing is- Xbox One claims that they have the answer to problems faced by console gamers, like switching from television to gaming with the press of a button or summoning delivery boys to send pizza. But that's never been a problem for anyone with a remote control or the desire to get up and manually switch from television to gaming/watching videos in the past or use the phone to dial for a pizza. It's never been a problem in the past for people to do these things but Microsoft thinks they have some technological breakthrough fixing problems that never existed.

The bigger problem is whether or not GameStop has the right to sue Microsoft for this tactic of charging a fee for the sale of used games. And if Microsoft does indeed carry this out, would Gamestop leverage them by actually not selling their product, new or used, considering that used game sales contribute to almost half of Gamestop's revenue? Just because Gamestop is a distributor of games doesn't mean that they don't have a team of lawyers working to prevent Microsoft from taking more than their fair share. I personally don't like this decision because gamers should be rewarded for their patience with lower prices and since it is rumored that the fees would make used games more expensive than buying it new, I think the federal government may need to get involved.


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## Arshes Nei (May 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> So there are rumours that the PS4 is going to implement a similar used games stance to Microsoft.



This actually isn't surprising. If anything it reminds me of the price fixing war Apple conspired with several companies on ebooks. I mean getting money through used games with developers getting a cut...you'd want to pressure others to do the same.


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## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Isn't there going to be a problem with this once only use in the European market? I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that what Microsoft plans to do with used games on the XBox One is illegal over there.



Runefox said:


> So there are rumours that the PS4 is going to implement a similar used games stance to Microsoft.



From what I've heard Sony isn't going to force it on game developers. Instead leave the decision on weather or not to do the use only up to game publishers thus wiping their hands clean of it.
Of course that will likely have similar backlash from the gaming community too.


----------



## Runefox (May 28, 2013)

DarrylWolf said:


> The bigger problem is whether or not GameStop has the right to sue Microsoft for this tactic of charging a fee for the sale of used games. And if Microsoft does indeed carry this out, would Gamestop leverage them by actually not selling their product, new or used, considering that used game sales contribute to almost half of Gamestop's revenue?


Just because you're a distributor doesn't mean you get to sue them for cutting out a piece of your business. The worst they could do is choose not to carry Microsoft's products. It isn't that Microsoft is decreeing that used games aren't allowed anymore - They're building it into their system, just like they did with Internet Explorer to get out of the Netscape monopoly lawsuit.

For that matter, Microsoft has supposedly briefed retailers on how used games will work. It requires a proprietary system, which reports the game to Microsoft as being deactivated (hence why the 24 hour check-in exists). Then they resell it and get 10% of the sale price (significantly less than they used to).


----------



## thoron (May 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Just because you're a distributor doesn't mean you get to sue them for cutting out a piece of your business. The worst they could do is choose not to carry Microsoft's products. It isn't that Microsoft is decreeing that used games aren't allowed anymore - They're building it into their system, just like they did with Internet Explorer to get out of the Netscape monopoly lawsuit.
> 
> For that matter, Microsoft has supposedly briefed retailers on how used games will work. It requires a proprietary system, which reports the game to Microsoft as being deactivated (hence why the 24 hour check-in exists). Then they resell it and get 10% of the sale price (significantly less than they used to).



There will still likely be a massive backlash on the consumer side of it, I will likely not buy it since I refuse to allow the internet to touch my consoles and vise versa.


----------



## Runefox (May 29, 2013)

thoron said:


> There will still likely be a massive backlash on the consumer side of it, I will likely not buy it since I refuse to allow the internet to touch my consoles and vise versa.


I'm always amused when someone says something like this. Are you going to miss out on this generation of consoles? Moving to PC? Giving up on games altogether?


----------



## thoron (May 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I'm always amused when someone says something like this. Are you going to miss out on this generation of consoles? Moving to PC? Giving up on games altogether?



But on the same token its people like you who allow it to happen by simply buying into it too. If enough people actually cared it wouldn't be able to happen but because there are enough people like you with the "Its gonna happen why fight it?" mentality it does happen. I'd hate to miss out on the next game generation, but it would seem that too many people are glued to their couchs and have an uncontrolable desire to game online. "Why should I care if MS requires maditory internet connection? I'm always online anyway." But what about those of us who have no desire to play those games or connect to the internet at all?

Why should we ever have to connect our consoles to the internet at any time? So Microdick can check to make sure we're playing game validly? Why not have an uninstall command that places the installation code back on the disk and before Gamestop or whoever takes the game just run it through a scanner to make sure the code is there and ready to for the next buyer? That would be better in my opinion.


----------



## Runefox (May 29, 2013)

Uh. So you're saying vote with your wallet... By not buying into the next generation of consoles and thus missing it. They won't artificially extend the life of the XBox 360/PS3 just because sales are slow for XBOne/PS4. There IS no alternative. None. NONE. You can either stop gaming altogether, miss this generation of games, or go PC. Or throw your chips in with Nintendo, whose third party support has always been horrendous and won't see any good non-first party titles. Those are your options. That is the reality. No amount of consumer activism is going to change that.


----------



## Seekrit (May 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uh. So you're saying vote with your wallet... By not buying into the next generation of consoles and thus missing it. They won't artificially extend the life of the XBox 360/PS3 just because sales are slow for XBOne/PS4. There IS no alternative. None. NONE. You can either stop gaming altogether, miss this generation of games, or go PC. Or throw your chips in with Nintendo, whose third party support has always been horrendous and won't see any good non-first party titles. Those are your options. That is the reality. No amount of consumer activism is going to change that.



What are Sony's plans for the PS3? They only stopped developing for PS2 earlier this year, I can't imagine they'll drop PS3 support when there's still money to be made from it.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uh. So you're saying vote with your wallet... By not buying into the next generation of consoles and thus missing it. They won't artificially extend the life of the XBox 360/PS3 just because sales are slow for XBOne/PS4. There IS no alternative. None. NONE. You can either stop gaming altogether, miss this generation of games, or go PC. Or throw your chips in with Nintendo, whose third party support has always been horrendous and won't see any good non-first party titles. Those are your options. That is the reality. No amount of consumer activism is going to change that.


I call bullshit on you with the force of a thousand suns.
In order for a company to make a profit it has to make a revenue off the items it's selling.  Name me one way xboxone could make a positive profit if due to lack of sales the amount of revenue it brings in is less than the amount of money it cost to manufacture all those xbox consoles.

What I mean by that is what universe do you live in where a negative number is greater than a positive number?
Your logic is so horrendous it doesn't even make sense to me.  It's like someone going up to you and saying that -1 is greater than 1.


----------



## thoron (May 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uh. So you're saying vote with your wallet... By not buying into the next generation of consoles and thus missing it. They won't artificially extend the life of the XBox 360/PS3 just because sales are slow for XBOne/PS4. There IS no alternative. None. NONE. You can either stop gaming altogether, miss this generation of games, or go PC. Or throw your chips in with Nintendo, whose third party support has always been horrendous and won't see any good non-first party titles. Those are your options. That is the reality. No amount of consumer activism is going to change that.



Where do you get off thinking that I think it will extend the life of the PS3 and 360? Of course I know it won't extent them. I mean that if consumers show their displeasure over the BS features like having to log on every 24 hours, Kinect having to be active and the one use only, they might just remove that. 

But alas there are far too many people with your mentality of go with what they give you or nothing at all.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 29, 2013)

thoron said:


> Where do you get off thinking that I think it will extend the life of the PS3 and 360? Of course I know it won't extent them. I mean that if consumers show their displeasure over the BS features like having to log on every 24 hours, Kinect having to be active and the one use only, they might just remove that.
> 
> But alas there are far too many people with your mentality of go with what they give you or nothing at all.


Isn't voting with your wallet the idea behind capitalism?  Like consumers dictate the market through paying for products and services?


----------



## thoron (May 29, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> Isn't voting with your wallet the idea behind capitalism?  Like consumers dictate the market through paying for products and services?



Thats the idea, but it only works if consumers are smart.


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## Runefox (May 29, 2013)

So bitching and moaning at Microsoft is going to get them to see the error of their ways and stop this evil plan? If that were true, they'd already have done so. They've had so much negative press and user backlash already that the XBOne is in the shitter as far as public opinion goes. But you know what? They won't change. Because they don't give a shit. Because the frat boys, the soccer moms, the 12 year old kids, they'll all buy one because THEY don't give a shit. The only people who DO are the people who are hardcore gamers, the people who, on the whole, make up the minority of their market.

Don't buy it. Tell all your friends not to buy it. Tell them to do the same. The only way for Microsoft to give a shit about it is to tell them that your money is going elsewhere. A sufficiently large body of people doing so will make an impact. Corporations have no souls, and no concept of right and wrong. Anything they can get away with to make more money, they will. Microsoft pissed off the neckbeards? Oh well, they're the unwashed masses who debate the finer points of the intimate relationship between Sonic and Solid Snake. Ask yourself this: If gamers truly mattered to Microsoft in their strategy here, would we be having this conversation to begin with?

No. The bottom line is the bottom line.

Long story short, you can petition Microsoft to stop all you want, but they won't listen - People already have and Microsoft already hasn't. Your delusional notion that Microsoft (or any sufficiently large company) would bend to the will of a vocal minority versus a major initiative geared towards basically printing money is quite frankly batshit insane. The only thing Microsoft cares about is the bottom line.

There is no negotiating. Your options beyond buying into it are still dropping out of this console generation, grabbing a WiiU and hoping to god that Nintendo grows a pair and gets devs on board, going PC, or dropping gaming altogether. Realistically speaking there is no other way forward. That is how it will play out.


----------



## thoron (May 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> So bitching and moaning at Microsoft is going to get them to see the error of their ways and stop this evil plan? If that were true, they'd already have done so. They've had so much negative press and user backlash already that the XBOne is in the shitter as far as public opinion goes. But you know what? They won't change. Because they don't give a shit. Because the frat boys, the soccer moms, the 12 year old kids, they'll all buy one because THEY don't give a shit. The only people who DO are the people who are hardcore gamers, the people who, on the whole, make up the minority of their market.
> 
> Don't buy it. Tell all your friends not to buy it. Tell them to do the same. The only way for Microsoft to give a shit about it is to tell them that your money is going elsewhere. A sufficiently large body of people doing so will make an impact. Corporations have no souls, and no concept of right and wrong. Anything they can get away with to make more money, they will. Microsoft pissed off the neckbeards? Oh well, they're the unwashed masses who debate the finer points of the intimate relationship between Sonic and Solid Snake. Ask yourself this: If gamers truly mattered to Microsoft in their strategy here, would we be having this conversation to begin with?
> 
> ...



Rather arrogant to claim that I am of the minority consistering I'm not much of a gamer outside the RPG genre. I'm a pretty average run of mill gamer who only games when I have the time for it. You must be pretty out of touch with too since most of those neckbeards as you call them are actually college kids or at least those in college. You make far too many assumptions.

Also do keep in mind that the hard core gamers weather their are a minority or not are the trend setters. The ones who are going to buy the consoles first and if they are saying the console is crap and not worth the money the average joe, the soccer moms etc., are likely to follow. Its true that the Xbox One is more than a console but it must be marketed as a console first and everything else second otherwise people will see it as a worthwhile investment to buy one and replace the electronics and equipment that they have already spent money on.


----------



## Stratelier (May 29, 2013)

DarrylWolf said:


> The bigger problem is whether or not GameStop has the right to sue Microsoft for this tactic of charging a fee for the sale of used games. And if Microsoft does indeed carry this out, would Gamestop leverage them by actually not selling their product, new or used, considering that used game sales contribute to almost half of Gamestop's revenue? Just because Gamestop is a distributor of games doesn't mean that they don't have a team of lawyers working to prevent Microsoft from taking more than their fair share. I personally don't like this decision because gamers should be rewarded for their patience with lower prices and since it is rumored that the fees would make used games more expensive than buying it new, I think the federal government may need to get involved.



I don't think Gamestop is actually that worried yet, but if they do choose to boycott the XBox One I don't see a problem there either.  MS can't sue _them_ for used game sales (first-sale doctrine) and can't sue them for boycotts.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 29, 2013)

Runefox you still didn't answer my question.  How can a company make a positive profit if the amount of revenue brought with the amount of units that are sold is less than the amount of money spent to make all of the units sold and not sold?  Basically if the xboxone bombs and not enough are sold to offset the cost to manufacture them then how is that considered a financial success?  Let's say it's a moderate financial bombing and only half of the units they thought they were going to sell and manufactured actually sell, how can that be considered a financial success?

Let me use a analogy; let's say a kid spends $5 to get what they need to sell lemonade, however all they get is $2.5 from people, how is that a positive profit?


----------



## Judge Spear (May 30, 2013)

[video=youtube;2SWQpRxJqwo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=2SWQpRxJqwo[/video]


----------



## Artillery Spam (May 30, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uh. So you're saying vote with your wallet... By not buying into the next generation of consoles and thus missing it. They won't artificially extend the life of the XBox 360/PS3 just because sales are slow for XBOne/PS4. There IS no alternative. None. NONE. You can either stop gaming altogether, miss this generation of games, or go PC. Or throw your chips in with Nintendo, whose third party support has always been horrendous and won't see any good non-first party titles. Those are your options. That is the reality. No amount of consumer activism is going to change that.



Then fuck it. They're not getting my money then.


----------



## thoron (May 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> [video=youtube;2SWQpRxJqwo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2SWQpRxJqwo[/video]



Yeah I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to try and play that up.


----------



## lilyWhite (May 30, 2013)

Runefox said:


> So bitching and moaning at Microsoft is going to get them to see the error of their ways and stop this evil plan? If that were true, they'd already have done so. They've had so much negative press and user backlash already that the XBOne is in the shitter as far as public opinion goes. But you know what? They won't change. Because they don't give a shit. Because the frat boys, the soccer moms, the 12 year old kids, they'll all buy one because THEY don't give a shit. The only people who DO are the people who are hardcore gamers, the people who, on the whole, make up the minority of their market.
> 
> Don't buy it. Tell all your friends not to buy it. Tell them to do the same. The only way for Microsoft to give a shit about it is to tell them that your money is going elsewhere. A sufficiently large body of people doing so will make an impact. Corporations have no souls, and no concept of right and wrong. Anything they can get away with to make more money, they will. Microsoft pissed off the neckbeards? Oh well, they're the unwashed masses who debate the finer points of the intimate relationship between Sonic and Solid Snake. Ask yourself this: If gamers truly mattered to Microsoft in their strategy here, would we be having this conversation to begin with?
> 
> ...



Tl;dr â€” "_Real_ gamers think the way I think and everyone else who doesn't is an idiot. Microsoft doesn't care about gamers because they've implemented things that _some_ gamers, most importantly _me_, don't like."

There's only one good point you make, though:



Runefox said:


> vocal minority


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 30, 2013)

There are still a number of people that don't know the kinnect needs to stay on. Nor did some I talked to knew about hard drive  or used games.


----------



## thoron (May 30, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> There's only one good point you make, though:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One thing to keep in mind though is that the vocal minority, hard core gamers if you will are the trend setters of the game console market. You know the ones who just have to have it cause its the lastest and "greatest", if you fail to impress them your product is sunk until everything thats pissing them off is fixed. Becuase if they aren't biting many others will raise an eyebrow and think it may not be worth investing in. Lets face it the current speculated price of the XBox One is around 500 dollars and it claims to replace your DVD player, Cable/Satelite box and your computer. All of which one has usually already invested around 1500 dollars in. If the gaming side isn't up to par or people aren't liking it for its restrictive features the product is dead until those features are tacken out.


----------



## Corto (May 30, 2013)

Used games don't really bother me because eventually it was gonna come to this, especially if it keeps moving into an "all digital" world where physical copies are there just as mementoes (though that does bother me because a large part of the world simply doesn't have the infrastructure to sustain such a gaming model, it'd kill consoles everywhere but Japan, the US, and Europe), but the "always on kinect" thing is incredibly fucking terrible. It's no surprise no one knows about it, I doubt it's the kind of thing they'll advertise much. Because if everyone knows that this XBox means "there's someone always recording everything that happens in your living room" and this console still manages to sell past double digits, it would mean the world has officially gone insane.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 31, 2013)

So let me get this straight as I'm a bit unclear. When you are finished playing...pardon WATCHING your XBox One and want to turn it off, unplugging it will do what to the system? Don't tell me you literally CAN'T turn off the Kinect no matter what. I assume there would be some battery you can access if it's wireless? You can't unplug it?


----------



## thoron (May 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So let me get this straight as I'm a bit unclear. When you are finished playing...pardon WATCHING your XBox One and want to turn it off, unplugging it will do what to the system? Don't tell me you literally CAN'T turn off the Kinect no matter what. I assume there would be some battery you can access if it's wireless? You can't unplug it?



If you can't unplug it theres a problem, the XBox one just can't function without the kinect. Worst case would be that unplugging it will corrupt something but no one really knows until MS releases more info or the product itself is released.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (May 31, 2013)

Although unlikely, I do hope Microsoft won't go full dickhead and make it that the system won't even turn on without the Kinect.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 31, 2013)

You doubt that they will?


----------



## thoron (May 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You doubt that they will?



With Microsoft its anyones guess.


----------



## Judge Spear (May 31, 2013)




----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 1, 2013)

My god.  The rumours are true the xboxone is actually in fact being listed online for around $900.

I know it's kind of mean to xbox fans, but I'm going to be completely honest here.  You'd have to be stupid as shit to buy the console considering the price and how bad of a console it's going to be.  I know a ton of people are xbox fans, but are you going to really shelve out $900 for a console with bad graphics compared to a pc around the same price range?  Buy a PS4, or a WiiU, or get a PC, but jesus a console for $900 with outdated graphics?

It's official that microsoft has fucking lost their minds.


----------



## thoron (Jun 1, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> My god.  The rumours are true the xboxone is actually in fact around $900.
> 
> I know it's kind of mean to xbox fans, but I'm going to be completely honest here.  You'd have to be stupid as shit to buy the console considering the price and how bad of a console it's going to be.  I know a ton of people are xbox fans, but are you going to really shelve out $900 for a console with bad graphics compared to a pc around the same price range?  Buy a PS4, or a WiiU, or get a PC, but jesus a console for $900 with outdated graphics?
> 
> It's official that microsoft has fucking lost their minds.



Also considering how they're trying to claim the central throne in home entertainment. Why would you buy it to play DVD's or to replace your cable/satelight box or to use Netflix? It just doesn't make viable sense to do that especially when the XBox 360 can do all that already. What do you get out it? Mandatory Kinects and internet connection? Many people are likely to pass at that price range.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 1, 2013)

thoron said:


> Also considering how they're trying to claim the central throne in home entertainment. Why would you buy it to play DVD's or to replace your cable/satelight box or to use Netflix? It just doesn't make viable sense to do that especially when the XBox 360 can do all that already. What do you get out it? Mandatory Kinects and internet connection? Many people are likely to pass at that price range.


Well at least Microsoft has found a good target audience and sticking to them, those living under a rock and the insane in the m-branes.


----------



## Teal (Jun 1, 2013)

$900! Are you serious! I'd pass on price alone!


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 1, 2013)

Well what happened is that overseas it would cost roughly $900 US dollars, that doesn't mean that's what it will cost here. Just about every electronic good is always more expensive in Europe. I do however believe it's still gonna sport a hefty price tag like PS3 did during launch.


----------



## Teal (Jun 1, 2013)

Has the price been announced on the PS4?


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## Judge Spear (Jun 1, 2013)

Welp Microsoft, it's your turn now...

EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS!
EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS!
EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS!


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 1, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> outdated graphics?


How can you even tell?


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 1, 2013)

Holy fucking shit. At the time of writing this, Amazon UK have the Xbox One priced at £599.99. If this is the final price then Microsoft are going to sink like a brick in a canal this generation round, mark my words.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 1, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Welp Microsoft, it's your turn now...
> 
> EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS!
> EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS!
> EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-NINE US DOLLARS!



So Glad people don't read 

The price is a CONVERTED price from overseas. In another post someone posted 599 in the UK which converted would be 999 US dollars.

However that is not what the price actually IS in the US.

It's likely to be PS3's launch which was $400-500 depending on the size of the drive (at that time). 

If you ever seen the Wacom European forums you'd see that companies charge double for electronic goods we receive at a much cheaper price.


I can't see these devices getting more than a 2 year warranty because most HDDs these days because of production had to change because of the Thailand flood. WD Black drives were the only ones backed by a 5 year warranty. So HDD production is going to be a factor along with normal wear and tear. So hope you enjoy your unit $300 each year.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 1, 2013)

Who could be happy that people don't read? o-O


----------



## thoron (Jun 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well what happened is that overseas it would cost roughly $900 US dollars, that doesn't mean that's what it will cost here. Just about every electronic good is always more expensive in Europe. I do however believe it's still gonna sport a hefty price tag like PS3 did during launch.



Even at a 500-600 dollar price point the XBox One still has a problem because of the way MS is trying to market it. At the end of the day its really no different from the 360 except that some the hard drive space is dedicated to features that one may or may not use as well as madatory kinect and internet connection. Lets not forget about the elephant in the room the issue with used games.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 1, 2013)

thoron said:


> Even at a 500-600 dollar price point the XBox One still has a problem because of the way MS is trying to market it. At the end of the day its really no different from the 360 except that some the hard drive space is dedicated to features that one may or may not use as well as madatory kinect and internet connection. Lets not forget about the elephant in the room the issue with used games.



I'm not disagreeing that the XBox One has problems. I just wish people actually did a bit more research on what those problems are than jumping to conclusions. It's just idiotic to leave out the currency exchange rate and differences in global market to make people go "YEAH EX BAHX WAN IS ALMOST $1000 DOLLAHS"


----------



## CrazyLee (Jun 1, 2013)

So the XBone (that's the new nickname it has) has a Kinect that never shuts off, and is always watching.

Hmm, wasn't there a TV that was always watching in the novel 1984? Big Brother, always watching?


Well, I see we're coming closer and closer to that Orwellian state...


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's just idiotic to leave out the currency exchange rate


You do realize that Â£599.99 translates to $912 right?  That's some hard core console dedication you have going on there to ignore the money exchange rate to try and act like it's not fucking expensive for a console.


----------



## thoron (Jun 2, 2013)

Pricing aside I just found this, though there's still plenty of spectulation to be had until E3.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Week...ng-to-PlayStation-4-in-Key-Areas-357643.shtml


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 2, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> You do realize that Â£599.99 translates to $912 right?  That's some hard core console dedication you have going on there to ignore the money exchange rate to try and act like it's not fucking expensive for a console.



You also have to be a fucking idiot to not understand the point I made. It's ALWAYS been more expensive in Europe. However, those of us in the US are not buying from Europe, we're buying it here. Fucking go buy a TV or any other electronic good overseas. You'll realize the prices were *ALWAYS* higher.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 2, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You also have to be a fucking idiot to not understand the point I made. It's ALWAYS been more expensive in Europe. However, those of us in the US are not buying from Europe, we're buying it here. Fucking go buy a TV or any other electronic good overseas. You'll realize the prices were *ALWAYS* higher.


*[Citation needed]*


----------



## Kazookie (Jun 2, 2013)

Three words.
Don't buy it.

It's stupid as fuck, and it's trying to be more of a media thingie than a gaming platform.

Fuck microsoft and its stupid "We want more money" policy on everything that could be nice.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 2, 2013)

About that UK price, Amazon always put up their highest estimate of the price. It's listed as Â£600 now, but it'll drop a few hundred by launch. Same thing happened with the 360 and PS3. But electronics are still more expensive here, it's annoying.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 2, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> *[Citation needed]*



Gee CF, you didn't go look at the prices of a Wacom Tablet, like I mentioned already. Europe always gets charged higher than the US. When tablets came with a mouse, it didn't come with one in Europe. Europe also got less software choices that came in the Wacom bundle than the US. Because we do get better prices, we aren't offered a Non Touch version of the Intuos 5. 

It doesn't take much to compare TV prices in Europe and US.

Software, ...one great example, ever see how Adobe charges Australia compared to the US? They even blocked out Australia from the US site directing them to the Australia site to pay more. When asked why they charge so much, Adobe representative just prattled on about the Creative Cloud. 

Not only that the US dollar is weak compared to the Euro and even more so to the Pound. The dollar is .66 to 1 lb. Gee...hmm close to 50% so wow...it's almost like 2 US dollars are to a British pound...so wait, if I had 600 Pounds, I would need almost close to double in our US currency?  (yeah who does math /sarcasm)


Here's another News Flash for you. Anime is more expensive in JAPAN than in the US.


----------



## lilyWhite (Jun 2, 2013)

CrazyLee said:


> So the XBone (that's the new nickname it has) has a Kinect that never shuts off, and is always watching.
> 
> Hmm, wasn't there a TV that was always watching in the novel 1984? Big Brother, always watching?
> 
> ...



They've already said that while the Kinect needs to be connected, there is privacy protection and settings in place, and it does not need to be fully active at all times.

But why let official statements from Microsoft get in the way of baseless pessimistic speculation?


----------



## thoron (Jun 2, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> They've already said that while the Kinect needs to be connected, there is privacy protection and settings in place, and it does not need to be fully active at all times.
> 
> But why let official statements from Microsoft get in the way of baseless pessimistic speculation?



The problem really is that MS has been doing a bad job in the PR department and its leaving everyone confused. I'm betting that it stems from the fact that Kinect has to be active at all for XBox One to simply function.


----------



## Corto (Jun 4, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> *[Citation needed]*


Oh c'mon CF, now you're just being thick, just admit you missed Arshes' point at first. Yes, electronic consumer goods are more expensive overseas, that's not some secret companies keep to themselves. The PS3 costed around 900 bucks when it launched here. Going from that, I'd put the price on the Xbox at around 600 dollars, same as the PS3.

Either way yeah, way too expensive (even if it doesn't end up costing 1500 dollars here or something equally ridiculous), especially when the list of features that users in my country (and others similar) can enjoy is basically "all of it" considering Microsoft doesn't give a shit about optimizing Live for these markets (not to mention we don't get stuff like internet TV or whatever, which I didn't even know existed, I still can't quite grasp how an Xbox can give me telly channels). I know we're not a big or important market, but I can still estimate the number of people in my country that'll buy it on launch will be about 3 persons.


----------



## Aden (Jun 4, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uh. So you're saying vote with your wallet... By not buying into the next generation of consoles and thus missing it. They won't artificially extend the life of the XBox 360/PS3 just because sales are slow for XBOne/PS4. There IS no alternative. None. NONE. You can either stop gaming altogether, miss this generation of games, or go PC. Or throw your chips in with Nintendo, whose third party support has always been horrendous and won't see any good non-first party titles. Those are your options. That is the reality. No amount of consumer activism is going to change that.



I, for one, am just fine with not playing the next gen's games if it came to that. At least they're just entertainment and not something actually important

but I don't think the PS4 will be quite as disappointing


----------



## Ozriel (Jun 4, 2013)

E3 is practically right around the corner. With that thought, lets prepare everyone in the event we want to crash the internet in lieu of the XBox one's features and such.


----------



## Corto (Jun 4, 2013)

Part of me expects them to go "haha we were just kidding. Kinect won't be necessary and it'll cost 300 bucks", while part of me hopes they'll go "ok 900 bucks was just a silly rumor, it'll cost 1200 dollars and also there will be mandatory ads in every game", because I don't really care much about consoles and I feed on the tears of internet dwellers.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 4, 2013)

Corto said:


> Part of me expects them to go "haha we were just kidding. Kinect won't be necessary and it'll cost 300 bucks", while part of me hopes they'll go "ok 900 bucks was just a silly rumor, it'll cost 1200 dollars and also there will be *mandatory ads in every game*", because I don't really care much about consoles and I feed on the tears of internet dwellers.



That is just disgusting. I can actually see it now; every loading screen with a unique ad picked from your TV/Netflix/browsing/Dominos Pizza history. The screens will be artificially lengthened of course, gotta have 10 seconds a screen to tell you how great Coca-Cola is after all.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 4, 2013)

Corto said:


> while part of me hopes they'll go "ok 900 bucks was just a silly rumor, it'll cost 1200 dollars and also there will be mandatory ads in every game", because I don't really care much about consoles and I feed on the tears of internet dwellers.


I want to see that happen as well, just cause it would be interesting to watch the internet burn down to the ground from all the rage.


----------



## DarrylWolf (Jun 5, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> I don't think Gamestop is actually that worried yet, but if they do choose to boycott the XBox One I don't see a problem there either. MS can't sue _them_ for used game sales (first-sale doctrine) and can't sue them for boycotts.



But it still makes no sense that a company would want to be on unfriendly terms with people who help facilitate the distribution of games, knowing full well that game sales come from game dealerships that have the right to sell games, used or new. You have to treat people selling your product with a tremendous deal of respect or they just won't sell your product with the same enthusiasm as the products from companies that DO treat them well. When you institute a policy that breaks the laissez-faire precedent set by gaming companies in the 1980s of selling used games, then I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbox One is not sold aggressively at GameStop as much as the WiiU or Playstation 4. Unless Microsoft has plans to sell the Xbox One solely at shops that already supply their computer products, and the number of those stores would be greater than Gamestop- ultimately, Microsoft wants to eliminate the middleman altogether to maximize profit.


----------



## Ozriel (Jun 5, 2013)

secretfur said:


> That is just disgusting. I can actually see it now; every loading screen with a unique ad picked from your TV/Netflix/browsing/Dominos Pizza history. The screens will be artificially lengthened of course, gotta have 10 seconds a screen to tell you how great Coca-Cola is after all.



Then you'll have to pay a premium free each month to get rid of the ads.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 5, 2013)

Well if you noticed the Forbes article it did go into how it would change marketing.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 5, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Then you'll have to pay a premium free each month to get rid of the ads.


The thing is, there's ads plastered all over the XBox 360's home screen already, Gold account or not. You're paying MSFT for the privilege.


----------



## Ozriel (Jun 5, 2013)

Runefox said:


> The thing is, there's ads plastered all over the XBox 360's home screen already, Gold account or not. You're paying MSFT for the privilege.



Not while you are playing the game. Every time you load into a new area, an ad pops up for Dominoes, Pizza hut, or Progressive Auto insurance. And then you have the ads that play a 30 second vid while you are waiting for the screen to load. :V


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 5, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Then you'll have to pay a premium free each month to get rid of the ads.



I literally shuddered at the plausibility of that. Going back to waiting for Dreamcast 2 now kthxbai.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 5, 2013)

So... is anyone going to buy that ouya?


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 5, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> So... is anyone going to buy that ouya?



I'm considering it. Providing it gets a decent MAME emulator and a Netflix app I'm in. Oh and if it actually gets released here, that would be cool.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 5, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> So... is anyone going to buy that ouya?


Doubtful. A low-powered Android device? Not exactly what I'd call a solid example of the current state of gaming.

Or is it? Considering how popular mobile gaming has become... Still, the games that you'd find available for Ouya are games that are going to also be available on your smartphone. If you really wanted the Ouya experience, get an MHL adapter (or the Digital AV adapter for iOS devices) and a bluetooth controller. Bam, your existing mobile device is now an Ouya for less than the price of an Ouya.


----------



## zachhart12 (Jun 5, 2013)

secretfur said:


> I literally shuddered at the plausibility of that. Going back to waiting for Dreamcast 2 now kthxbai.



*looks up Dreamcast 2* da fuqqqq?!?!!? o.o


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jun 5, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Dreamcast



What was so great about the Dreamcast?

Not being snarky or anything here - honest question. I think I only saw a Dreamcast in person only once in my life so I know literally nothing about it.

However I did play on a Sega Saturn once. The game I played revolved around dragons and RPG stuff an' shit. Panzer Dragoon, I think. Man, thinking back to old games that I only have a glimpse of caught in my head torments me so.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 5, 2013)

zachhart12 said:


> *looks up Dreamcast 2* da fuqqqq?!?!!? o.o



Relax there, it was a jape. But still, I hope against the odds.



Gibby said:


> What was so great about the Dreamcast?
> 
> Not being snarky or anything here - honest question. I think I only saw a Dreamcast in person only once in my life so I know literally nothing about it.



Since its demise the Dreamcast has been greatly over-hyped. Back when it was relevant though it had plenty of fighting, racing, and shooting games to keep me and my friends entertained. It was basically the best party console ever, as anyone who has played a round of 4-player Power Stone will attest. It was damned good fun, and most of the games still hold up well today. A shame it died the way it did, and all because it lacked a DVD player.


----------



## thoron (Jun 5, 2013)

Runefox said:


> The thing is, there's ads plastered all over the XBox 360's home screen already, Gold account or not. You're paying MSFT for the privilege.



Only if the console is connected to the internet does it show ads. Mine has never been touched by the internet and it still has its default UI.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 6, 2013)

Gibby said:


> What was so great about the Dreamcast?
> 
> Not being snarky or anything here - honest question. I think I only saw a Dreamcast in person only once in my life so I know literally nothing about it.


In many ways, the Dreamcast was a console of firsts.

 It was the first console capable of anti-aliasing and 480p output, which made games released for it really pop, even during the early days of the PS2's release. It was the first console to use a Microsoft operating system (based on Windows CE, games developed taking advantage of this were generally easy to develop). Arguably, it had a more powerful graphics processor than the PS2 (though in the end a much slower CPU), but was hindered by the decision to use GD-ROM discs (1.5GB) instead of DVD's. It was also the first console to come with internet connectivity out of the box, including a web browser and the first console MMORPG, Phantasy Star Online.

It also had interesting memory cards (VMU's), which lasted a whole hour on battery but allowed minigames (think Tamagotchi) and file management on the go (including transferring data between VMU's by locking them together). While that didn't really take off, it was cool as balls at the time. Also notable was that the Dreamcast was able to run unlicensed software out of the box, including boot discs that enabled region-free gameplay. I fondly recall taking my Dreamcast everywhere long after it was discontinued in order to use it as an emulator box using a disc I'd created using SBInducer. Fun times.


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## lupinealchemist (Jun 6, 2013)

thoron said:


> Only if the console is connected to the internet does it show ads. Mine has never been touched by the internet and it still has its default UI.


XBOne:"No internet, no play."


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jun 8, 2013)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngau...of-xbox-one-used-game-sales/?partner=yahootix

More stuff on used games.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

Artillery Spam said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngau...of-xbox-one-used-game-sales/?partner=yahootix
> 
> More stuff on used games.



The part about setting a time frame before a game can be traded in was interesting. It's a wonder it hasn't been done before, it seems like a perfectly fair policy.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 8, 2013)

Basically, with what Microsoft "clarified" the other day, we're looking at every game for the console being rendered unavailable once the XBOne hits end-of-life and they shut the servers down.

You're renting the games.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Basically, with what Microsoft "clarified" the other day, we're looking at every game for the console being rendered unavailable once the XBOne hits end-of-life and they shut the servers down.
> 
> You're renting the games.



This next-gen craic is looking less and less appealing. Pity the console gamers, for they know not their plight.


----------



## Cain (Jun 8, 2013)

Sooo...
PC Gaming ftw?


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 8, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Basically, with what Microsoft "clarified" the other day, we're looking at every game for the console being rendered unavailable once the XBOne hits end-of-life and they shut the servers down.


By then, fans will have cracked the box and removed the DRM, so I don't see much issue.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 8, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> By then, fans will have cracked the box and removed the DRM, so I don't see much issue.


The point being you shouldn't have to rely on people breaking the DRM and performing voodoo yourself in order to keep your games, not to mention most normal people won't go to that length to begin with.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 8, 2013)

Now, one thing I will say is that assuming it will keep the versatility and doesn't need the fucking Kinect just to move its analogs or whatever the fuck, I'll buy the XBox One CONTROLLER in a heartbeat. I love my 360 controllers and honestly the One's pad looks really really good.


----------



## Cain (Jun 8, 2013)

If the One's controller maintains the 'works with PC games!' addon that the 360 one held, I'll buy a controller. Just not the console.


----------



## Corto (Jun 8, 2013)

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/7/4406170/xbox-one-internet-trade-policy

1.5 mbps? Fuck that.


----------



## Cain (Jun 8, 2013)

Corto said:


> http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/7/4406170/xbox-one-internet-trade-policy
> 
> 1.5 mbps? Fuck that.


Looks like a lot more people are gonna move to Kansas City for google fiber now.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 8, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Now, one thing I will say is that assuming it will keep the versatility and doesn't need the fucking Kinect just to move its analogs or whatever the fuck, I'll buy the XBox One CONTROLLER in a heartbeat. I love my 360 controllers and honestly the One's pad looks really really good.


I'm with you there, though I like my chrome red Pro controller and its transforming D-pad quite a lot (analog sticks are better than standard too).


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 8, 2013)

Microsoft are reportedly paying third-part developers large amounts of money to not show off their PS4 games. Now, I'm not saying you need to take this article as 100% truth, *but - *and this is a big but - if this article is right (the source is apparently credible enough to believe) then fuck you, Microsoft. Just.... fuck you.


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 8, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Microsoft are reportedly paying third-part developers large amounts of money to not show off their PS4 games. Now, I'm not saying you need to take this article as 100% truth, *but - *and this is a big but - if this article is right (the source is apparently credible enough to believe) then fuck you, Microsoft. Just.... fuck you.


 If third party developers have any shred of integrity, they'll tell Microsoft to fuck off and die.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> If third party developers have any shred of integrity, they'll tell Microsoft to fuck off and die.



They won't. Because money.


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 8, 2013)

So after reading this thread I've come up with this. XBOne = a fuck you to gamers, Indies, and any third person dev. Its just ONE (see what I did thar?) big fuck you.


----------



## Kalmor (Jun 8, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Microsoft are reportedly paying third-part developers large amounts of money to not show off their PS4 games. Now, I'm not saying you need to take this article as 100% truth, *but - *and this is a big but - if this article is right (the source is apparently credible enough to believe) then fuck you, Microsoft. Just.... fuck you.


The page states that it got its info from what someone said on NeoGaf, though apparently the poster in question has been right before about some things.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 8, 2013)

Raptros said:


> The page states that it got its info from what someone said on NeoGaf, though apparently the poster in question has been right before about some things.



That's the reason I said "the source is apparently credible enough to believe". I just hope it isn't true.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 9, 2013)

Sony did this to Nintendo quite a while ago, or so the claims go. The irony is delicious.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 9, 2013)

Speaking of Sony...


----------



## Saybin~Iacere (Jun 9, 2013)

*Re: New xbox will have used disc fee*

I just don't even care anymore, building a PC anyway so this will be maybe a centerpiece I buy for my living room when I move. Sad it will be just that..


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 10, 2013)

Saw this in somebody's sig and it is hilarious.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

I found mai waifu.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/1c6f862478a525f55a49346aa404df52/tumblr_mo5zr5fJpI1qg56ojo1_1280.png
http://24.media.tumblr.com/f53bf3840cda4bc9a9edaa107a1e5e7c/tumblr_mo5zr5fJpI1qg56ojo2_1280.png
http://25.media.tumblr.com/01d02b267c90b58e7f26e2ff425d4ebd/tumblr_mo5zr5fJpI1qg56ojo3_1280.png
http://25.media.tumblr.com/4138b7ee09eca5eab63441642fc93cf2/tumblr_mo5zr5fJpI1qg56ojo4_1280.png

In all honesty, that's actually kinda cute^.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 10, 2013)

The new dead rising makes me sad, no sign of psychopaths or humor? ;-;
also crutch military strikes is lame X.X


----------



## Corto (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Going from that, I'd put the price on the Xbox at around 600 dollars, same as the PS3.


500 bucks, actually.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Sucks SO bad One is awful, because that Ryse: Son of Rome looks nice as all fuck.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 10, 2013)

New Killer Instinct, eh? New Halo in 2014?
I wonder if a buttload of good exclusives can save the console.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jun 10, 2013)

Apparently the Xbox One will cost $500 on release.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

No.

So many shooters announced. I don't want shooters.
Microsoft.
STAHP

Plus other stuff may not be console exclusive.


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 10, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> New Killer Instinct, eh? New Halo in 2014?
> I wonder if a buttload of good exclusives can save the console.


Sony has gotten way better with their exclusives so I doubt it. But you never know! There are a lot of huge halo fans and even more Xbawks fans.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 10, 2013)

Pricing officially announced by Microsoft. £429 for a console with mandatory DRM? Fuck no.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Damn...they announced so many cool looking games. Why the fuck does a system have to SUCK SO BAD!?


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 10, 2013)

honestly i wasn't really impressed by many of the games. half of them were grey shooters/ enough to make it feel like half of them.

D4 we know nothing about. and from the one moment of gameplay it looked like a kinect thing.
MGS5 is not going to be exclusive or at least they didn't say it so awesome.
Dead rising 3 seems void of humor or the psychopaths that made the other games great.
Ryse looked exactly like what call of duty would be if it was set in ancient rome and had QTEs and i found very humorous.
Crimson dragon looked cool and will prolly be more interesting when it has sound XP
Killer instinct is cool and the matchmaking system has promise.
also that trailer for the new halo was pretty annoying >.>
However for me those where the only things that stood out and i will prolly get MGS5 on the ps4.
No exclusive RPGs also which is bleh


----------



## Vaelarsa (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't care if they come out with "Samus and Big Boss's Kickass Awesome Adventure in Space and Then They Make Out: The Game".
I'm not touching this console with a ten-foot pole.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 10, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> I don't care if they come out with "Samus and Big Boss's Kickass Awesome Adventure in Space and Then They Make Out: The Game".
> I'm not touching this console with a ten-foot pole.



Don't even joke about that. I would buy that twice.


----------



## Corto (Jun 10, 2013)

Most of the games announced weren't exclusives. Those that were (yet another Halo? A Dead Rising without everything that made Dead Rising fun?) aren't really worth it.

Announcing stuff like MGS5 exclusively in the XBox conference is what you guys were talking about before, about Microsoft paying developers not to announce on other consoles.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Most of the games announced weren't exclusives. Those that were (yet another Halo? A Dead Rising without everything that made Dead Rising fun?) aren't really worth it.
> 
> Announcing stuff like MGS5 exclusively in the XBox conference is what you guys were talking about before, about Microsoft paying developers not to announce on other consoles.



...I wasn't talking about Halo or Dead Rising.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

Of course Apple will have their conference the same say MS wants to talk about their console lol


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 10, 2013)

Looking at the games they showed at their conference I am almost convinced that they are gonna get away with all this shit.

Remember the time before Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 came out? When people wanted to boycott the PC version because it didn't have dedicated servers?
But then this happened: http://www.destructoid.com/this-is-what-the-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing-154944.phtml

They are mindless sheep. They want the new Halo, they will buy the new Halo and they will buy the new console with it. It happened with Call of Duty, it happened with those retarded online passes, it happened with always-on DRM games and it is gonna happen again with this console.
"Hey, you want that new Killer Instinct that you waited for since the N64 times and that has been teased for years now, right? *Aww, you don't like our new console? Well, that's too bad! ;D*"

Microsoft practically has their money already. We are raging now and vowing not to buy this piece of shit but you know what? They have already won. Because gamers today are a bunch of brainless zombies who will suck up everything as long as they get their new shiny "ultra realistic shooter" with way too much bloom and HDR effects.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 10, 2013)

In the light of all this I'm actually considering getting a PC.


----------



## thoron (Jun 10, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Looking at the games they showed at their conference I am almost convinced that they are gonna get away with all this shit.
> 
> Remember the time before Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 came out? When people wanted to boycott the PC version because it didn't have dedicated servers?
> But then this happened: http://www.destructoid.com/this-is-what-the-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing-154944.phtml
> ...



What's killer Instinct? Another generic fighting game? MS might have a list of 17 exclusive games but none of them are remotely impressive. The fan favorite titles like Halo will need to bring something new and impressive to the table or its going to start crashing and burning like the Final Fantasy series.


----------



## Corto (Jun 10, 2013)

Of course the console will still sell because the world at large doesn't know or care about things like "reselling used games" or "gamer's rights" or whatever, and I don't think many people have realized what having an always-on, microsoft owned spy system in their living room means. There's a huge demographic that simply sees "Halo" and buys. And of the demographic that does care (mainly "nerds posting online about it"), as CC says, a lot will simply talk shit and then buy anyways just because. If anything drives sales down, I'm betting it'll be the price, as with the PS3.



XoPachi said:


> ...I wasn't talking about Halo or Dead Rising.



And I wasn't talking to you, so it works out very nicely.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 10, 2013)

thoron said:


> What's killer Instinct? Another generic fighting game? MS might have a list of 17 exclusive games but none of them are remotely impressive. The fan favorite titles like Halo will need to bring something new and impressive to the table or its going to start crashing and burning like the Final Fantasy series.



Killer Instinct just so happens to be one of the most popular fighting games ever, mainly because of it's over the top combo system.


----------



## thoron (Jun 10, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Killer Instinct just so happens to be one of the most popular fighting games ever, mainly because of it's over the top combo system.



Its also a series from the 90's which makes it a big gamble as the new generation may or may not bite since there are fighting games which have established themselves quite well in the absents of Killer Instinct. How well X1 does will come down to how many will bite outside of the die hards.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Of course the console will still sell because the world at large doesn't know or care about things like "reselling used games" or "gamer's rights" or whatever, and I don't think many people have realized what having an always-on, microsoft owned spy system in their living room means. There's a huge demographic that simply sees "Halo" and buys. And of the demographic that does care (mainly "nerds posting online about it"), as CC says, a lot will simply talk shit and then buy anyways just because. If anything drives sales down, I'm betting it'll be the price, as with the PS3.
> 
> 
> 
> And I wasn't talking to you, so it works out very nicely.



I guess it depends on the generation that will buy this. Older gamers may not justify the expense if they have family.... that money could go to a tablet, a couple of smartphones depending where one shops and other gadgets that hit range. $680 is a bit much for recapturing 90's nostalgia.

Younger generations are learning to do without.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 10, 2013)

thoron said:


> Its also a series from the 90's which makes it a big gamble as the new generation may or may not bite since there are fighting games which have established themselves quite well in the absents of Killer Instinct. How well X1 does will come down to how many will bite outside of the die hards.



Since it is so very over the top and one of those "easy to learn, hard to master" games I am almost certain that it's gonna do well.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Since it is so very over the top and one of those "easy to learn, hard to master" games I am almost certain that it's gonna do well.



Am I the only one who can't WAIT to see it at EVO?



Corto said:


> And I wasn't talking to you, so it works out very nicely.



Pardon.


----------



## Corto (Jun 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I guess it depends on the generation that will buy this. Older gamers may not justify the expense if they have family.... that money could go to a tablet, a couple of smartphones depending where one shops and other gadgets that hit range. $680 is a bit much for recapturing 90's nostalgia.
> 
> Younger generations are learning to do without.



Well, considering the XBox One is outselling the PS4 in preorders right now, and also has 20% more preorders than the 360 did back in the day, I'd say it all comes down to me screaming "FUCK" at my monitor for hours and wishing to strangle everyone.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 10, 2013)

thoron said:


> What's killer Instinct? Another generic fighting game? MS might have a list of 17 exclusive games but none of them are remotely impressive. The fan favorite titles like Halo will need to bring something new and impressive to the table or its going to start crashing and burning like the Final Fantasy series.



The funny thing is the reason the Final fantasy series went under is because they kept on trying new different things and tried to bring new things to the table, at least that's what i think happened to it.


----------



## Teal (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Well, considering the XBox One is outselling the PS4 in preorders right now, and also has 20% more preorders than the 360 did back in the day, I'd say it all comes down to me screaming "FUCK" at my monitor for hours and wishing to strangle everyone.


 I am in pain now. D:


----------



## thoron (Jun 10, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> The funny thing is the reason the Final fantasy series went under is because they kept on trying new different things and tried to bring new things to the table, at least that's what i think happened to it.



While they brought new elements of game play the game length, story telling or questing aspects started to suffer. FFIX was the last Final Fantasy to have a excellent story as well as side quests that enhanced that story. After that it started becoming very linear. X was linear with the ability to back track, X-2 was much the same with many disjoined stories. XI was an online MMORPH. XII brough to the table the use of AI for the other active party members but it farely was linear as well with many many side quests which mostly involved hunting monsters. XIII was more or less like following a railroad track and the side quests which only show up at the end and are ultimately just monster hunts and contribute nothing to the story. XIII-2 is more or less the same with a bunch of DLC side stories. And last but not least so far is XIV which is more or less a XI remake and is still a MMO/MMORPH.

RPGs need to be a good balance of stories and side questing and sadly after IX they started to fail at that balance.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Well, considering the XBox One is outselling the PS4 in preorders right now, and also has 20% more preorders than the 360 did back in the day, I'd say it all comes down to me screaming "FUCK" at my monitor for hours and wishing to strangle everyone.



...GG


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Well, considering the XBox One is outselling the PS4 in preorders right now, and also has 20% more preorders than the 360 did back in the day, I'd say it all comes down to me screaming "FUCK" at my monitor for hours and wishing to strangle everyone.


I feel your pain Corto :[


----------



## Fernin (Jun 10, 2013)

Part of the reason the XB1 has the preorder lead may well have to do with the fact that Sony is also doing a great deal of the dickish shit MS is doing, but has tried to backdoor it while MS went out infront with it. Nobody likes a hypocrite. Either way, I'm very likely not getting either console. I love Forza, Halo, and Gears. But they're not worth the consumer hating fuckery this console generation seems to be bringing. Looks like I'm heading into the realm of exclusively PC gaming unless something major changes in the console scene.


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Well, considering the XBox One is outselling the PS4 in preorders right now, and also has 20% more preorders than the 360 did back in the day, I'd say it all comes down to me screaming "FUCK" at my monitor for hours and wishing to strangle everyone.


I... what? How? My faith in gaming has went out the window. THIS will now become acceptable. What a bunch of bullshit.


----------



## thoron (Jun 10, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> I... what? How? My faith in gaming has went out the window. THIS will now become acceptable. What a bunch of bullshit.



There may be a small chance (and its extremely small at that) that most of those pre order purchases are so that people can smash the console in protest. I wouldn't coun't on it though. Its probably more that MS has more exclusive games lined up at the moment.


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 10, 2013)

I thought humanity was capable of saying no when they know they're being bent over and ass fucked. I REALLY don't want this to be acceptable but it is. No words can explain my frustration.


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 10, 2013)

Corto said:


> Well, considering the XBox One is outselling the PS4 in preorders right now, and also has 20% more preorders than the 360 did back in the day, I'd say it all comes down to me screaming "FUCK" at my monitor for hours and wishing to strangle everyone.



I want to do this to the world now.
[yt]3CtsY-TRGrw[/yt]


----------



## Aggybyte (Jun 10, 2013)

I wouldn't mind downloading Project Gotham racing 2 and playing that again, whatever it takes.


----------



## Corto (Jun 10, 2013)

Fernin said:


> Part of the reason the XB1 has the preorder lead may well have to do with the fact that Sony is also doing a great deal of the dickish shit MS is doing, but has tried to backdoor it while MS went out infront with it. Nobody likes a hypocrite.


I really don't want to sound dickish, but I'm pretty sure that has literally zero repercussions on the amount of preorders. The crowd that would mostly care about such crap (internet nerds, mostly) has spent all this time criticizing the X1 and whenever the PS4 is mentioned (which is rarely) it's to be hailed as some sort of beacon of hope. The market at large (also known as "those that don't know or care about such as going online every 24 hours or being unable to resale games") is not really the kind of crowd that would go "hmmm, after some research, it seems the PS4 may be just as bad, but I like the cut of Microsoft's jib".

 I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity?


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Honestly...and it's rather simple, but I think that after Sony's conference (starting now for those that aren't following) the preorders may even out. I mean...XBox showed games and PS4 is just getting to it. They may blow MS clean out of the water, but MS fans were convinced already. Simple, but who knows.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

Preorders don't necessarily matter since you aren't charged for it on Amazon. You can cancel at any time. You only pay once the item is shipped.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 10, 2013)

The hyperbole in this thread is epic. And not just a little bit ironic.


----------



## Teal (Jun 10, 2013)

PS4 may be bad as well but at least it doesn't come with the always watching HAL.


----------



## thoron (Jun 10, 2013)

Teal said:


> PS4 may be bad as well but at least it doesn't come with the always watching HAL.



And if you so desire take it somewhere where there won't be an internet connection.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Welp, it's over. Sony won.

GG
Continue? 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 Game Over.

Sony stock +100%
KHIII and FFXV. No WAY that system won't sell. [/XBox One]
LOL


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm not the biggest fan of Sony after what they did to certain musicians I like (Jamiroquai) though I will say the funny part is that the indie games actually had me a bit piqued...not enough to get the system though.

Ok uncanny valley on Lebron James lol D:


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm not the biggest fan of Sony after what they did to certain musicians I like (Jamiroquai) though I will say the funny part is that the indie games actually had me a bit piqued...not enough to get the system though.



Yeah, I can see that. They've been getting rid of a lot. I'm hurt that they killed off Studio Liverpool which effectively killed off WipEout. All those people...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

Oh shit no new restrictions for used games on PS4
Doesn't need to be online connected or any type of authentication.


----------



## Willow (Jun 10, 2013)

But is it reverse compatible?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Sony stock +100%
> KHIII and FFXV. No WAY that system won't sell. [/XBox One]
> LOL



Fuck Square. Is Fantasy meaning lack of ethnicity? Just another Jpop JRock parade after 15 versions? I swear it's becoming less diverse each iteration.


----------



## Willow (Jun 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Fuck Square. Is Fantasy meaning lack of ethnicity? Just another Jpop  JRock parade after 15 versions? I swear it's becoming less diverse each  iteration.


Can't say I'm totally surprised I mean, Japan isn't really known for being accepting of cultural diversity


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

$400!??!?!?!?!

XBOX GO HOME!!


----------



## Runefox (Jun 10, 2013)

PS4 - $399, no used game restrictions, as powerful as the XBox One, lots of games, plays PS3 games over the internet, indie developers can self-publish, free games for PS+ subscribers, included video services, no always-online requirement.

XBox One - $499, used games are verboten, as powerful as the PS4, few games announced, always online requirement.

Hmm... Decisions, decisions...​


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

Willow said:


> Can't say I'm totally surprised I mean, Japan isn't really known for being accepting of cultural diversity



They at least had Blacks in previous versions....


----------



## Ozriel (Jun 10, 2013)

thoron said:


> And if you so desire take it somewhere where there won't be an internet connection.



It may charge you sixty bucks for moving it. :V


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Fuck Square. Is Fantasy meaning lack of ethnicity? Just another Jpop JRock parade after 15 versions? I swear it's becoming less diverse each iteration.



I personally just liked the real time action they showed. Reminded me a lot of DMC meets Dishonored. I don't expect anything in the style to be anything more than weeaboo catering nonsense...well character wise anyway.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 10, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> It may charge you sixty bucks for moving it. :V



No they will charge you for using Multiplayer though. PS+ Subscription is required for Multiplayer


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

The only sad news. :/


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Fuck Square. Is Fantasy meaning lack of ethnicity? Just another Jpop JRock parade after 15 versions? I swear it's becoming less diverse each iteration.


less diverse itteration, 15 set in a completly different setting looking very little like any other final fantasty game.
:v
but sony had way more much to show and it was pretty awesome.


----------



## thoron (Jun 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> No they will charge you for using Multiplayer though. PS+ Subscription is required for Multiplayer



By multi player you mean over the internet right? Its still free if two friends sit down and have at it on the same console correct?


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> less diverse itteration, 15 set in a completly different setting looking very little like any other final fantasty game.
> :v
> but sony had way more much to show and it was pretty awesome.



This is the first Final Fantasy I have ever cared about enough to _buy_ let alone be genuinely excited for. Same goes for KHIII.


----------



## Teal (Jun 10, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> This is the first Final Fantasy I have ever cared about enough to _buy_ let alone be genuinely excited for. Same goes for KHIII.


 I find this extremely funny for some reason.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 10, 2013)

Teal said:


> I find this extremely funny for some reason.



Leave me alone.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 11, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> less diverse itteration, 15 set in a completly different setting looking very little like any other final fantasty game.
> :v
> but sony had way more much to show and it was pretty awesome.



They could have called it something else pretty much.


----------



## Teal (Jun 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Leave me alone.


 It's the games relation to each other that's funny ( I don't just mean the crossover elements ). Besides I'm gonna get both as well.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 11, 2013)

Same deal for me for Metal Gear 5 also. I've never liked the Solid series (I love Rising), but open world stealth action I hear? THAT'S boner inducing.
That's on 360, right?


----------



## Runefox (Jun 11, 2013)

thoron said:


> By multi player you mean over the internet right? Its still free if two friends sit down and have at it on the same console correct?


Yes.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 11, 2013)

Hope PS4 players like subscription fees, PS+ is now required for online play and $50 a year, just like Live.


----------



## Teal (Jun 11, 2013)

Fernin said:


> Hope PS4 players like subscription fees, PS+ is now required for online play and $50 a year, just like Live.


 My sister's gonna hate that. (She NEEDS her multiplayer).


----------



## Corto (Jun 11, 2013)

Keep this thread about the Xbox One. Wanna talk about PS+, look for the PS4 thread. Want to talk about FF and MGS and whatever, there's a pretty active E3 thread. No need to have all the threads mixed together.


----------



## Teal (Jun 11, 2013)

Corto said:


> Keep this thread about the Xbox One. Wanna talk about PS+, look for the PS4 thread. Want to talk about FF and MGS and whatever, there's a pretty active E3 thread. No need to have all the threads mixed together.


 There's a PS4 thread? Anyway on topic; is the XboxOne's online multiplayer free, pay only or both?


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 11, 2013)

since the xbox live accounts transfer over i imagine it's going to cost money to play online the same as before.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 11, 2013)

Looks like that #1 slot for UK sales on Pre Orders didn't last long as PS4 is now on top.

However, again doesn't mean anything until the order goes through. Amazon doesn't have down payment on items it only charges you when it ships. People will put in for pre-order to get the price guarantee so they're not paying double by some asshole reselling them for double on ebay. So basically people will use Amazon because they feel safer in getting the item in stock and less up front payment risk.

It also took the #1 slot in the US Bestseller Amazon Charts, XBoxOne #2


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 11, 2013)

Runefox said:


> PS4 - $399, no used game restrictions, as powerful as the XBox One, lots of games, plays PS3 games over the internet, indie developers can self-publish, free games for PS+ subscribers, included video services, no always-online requirement.
> 
> XBox One - $499, used games are verboten, as powerful as the PS4, few games announced, always online requirement.
> 
> Hmm... Decisions, decisions...​



To be fair the PS4 will have DRM, just not on every game. Sony said that whilst it wouldn't be mandatory developers do have the option to add DRM to the game, which pretty much means if it's a multi-console game that's also on the Xbox One it will most likely have it on the PS4 too.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 11, 2013)

The audience reaction to the price-
[YT]PzDsYEPkSc4#![/YT]


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 11, 2013)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57588786/microsoft-apologizes-for-rape-joke-at-e3/

Think that might have been a bit overblown as a reaction but lol. Just insult to injury


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 11, 2013)

^I wish I didn't click that.

[video=youtube;L9IOP3QN3CI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9IOP3QN3CI[/video]

I LOVE this guy.

EDIT: REALLY!?


----------



## Teal (Jun 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> EDIT: REALLY!?


 XD my sides hurt.


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 11, 2013)

I always dreamed of a new Killer Instinct, MS now turned it into a waking nightmare.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> EDIT: REALLY!?



It says Viacom blocked this on copyright grounds.

What I miss?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 11, 2013)

secretfur said:


> It says Viacom blocked this on copyright grounds.
> 
> What I miss?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC8FbgGnd0

Well I guess if you're gonna spend $500 on a gaming system you should have fucking internet. Even if you're rural


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC8FbgGnd0
> 
> Well I guess if you're gonna spend $500 on a gaming system you should have fucking internet. Even if you're rural



Goodness gracious. Between this, the price reaction, and that rape joke Microsoft have had a pretty bad week.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 12, 2013)

Their own fucking fault. Though people over reacted about that "rape joke".


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 12, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Their own fucking fault. Though people over reacted about that "rape joke".



Still, it didn't help. At this point in the game it's all about public perception, not actual hard n' software, and Microsoft fucking bombed.


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 12, 2013)

...everybody knows rape is the 'other' R-word.

Sony at least put together a tutorial for how to share PS4 games with your friends:

[video=youtube;kWSIFh8ICaA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA[/video]


----------



## Fernin (Jun 12, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> ...everybody knows rape is the 'other' R-word.
> 
> Sony at least put together a tutorial for how to share PS4 games with your friends:
> 
> [video=youtube;kWSIFh8ICaA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA[/video]



As much as I dislike Sony, that was pretty damn funny.


----------



## Willow (Jun 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57588786/microsoft-apologizes-for-rape-joke-at-e3/
> 
> Think that might have been a bit overblown as a reaction but lol. Just insult to injury


I almost feel like it wasn't even a rape joke to be perfectly honest. But rape is such a buzz word now and people were already counting MS out so at this point it's almost like people were _trying_ to find more reasons to hate them.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 12, 2013)

Willow said:


> I almost feel like it wasn't even a rape joke to be perfectly honest. But rape is such a buzz word now and people were already counting MS out so at this point it's almost like people were _trying_ to find more reasons to hate them.



Oh yeah clearly, people are already pissed and waiting to jump on any little slip up they can take. 

If I'm being honest, the biggest faults of the XOne aren't really going to be a problem for most people. Not everyone buys used games, and the average consumer won't care about DRM, kinect, or any of that crap. But this whole negative view of Microsoft right now will turn away a sizeable percent of these people.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 12, 2013)

I can't wait till some kid gets the wrong gaming system for Christmas and has an epic fit. 

There's still a number of people confused about what the XBox One does in terms of DRM and needing to be online. I know one co worker who doesn't use home internet and loves XBox, so he wanted to get an Xbox One.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 12, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Oh yeah clearly, people are already pissed and waiting to jump on any little slip up they can take.
> 
> If I'm being honest, the biggest faults of the XOne aren't really going to be a problem for most people. Not everyone buys used games, and the average consumer won't care about DRM, kinect, or any of that crap. But this whole negative view of Microsoft right now will turn away a sizeable percent of these people.



The concept of something that is on and listening/watching my living room at all times is something I can't abide. The restrictiveness of the DRM, while not something that would personally cause problems for me, is something that I also dislike on moral grounds.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 12, 2013)

Fernin said:


> The concept of something that is on and listening/watching my living room at all times is something I can't abide. The restrictiveness of the DRM, while not something that would personally cause problems for me, is something that I also dislike on moral grounds.



Same here. We are a minority though, compared to most who will see 'oooh new xbox' and buy it without hesitation. This people aren't 'sheep' or anything, they just don't know about all the downsides and probably wouldn't care anyway. Let them have their restrictive overpriced FIFA boxes.


----------



## Heliophobic (Jun 12, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Same here. We are a minority though, compared to most who will see 'oooh new xbox' and buy it without hesitation. This people aren't 'sheep' or anything, they just don't know about all the downsides and probably wouldn't care anyway. Let them have their restrictive overpriced FIFA boxes.



Stupid consumers prevent smart consumers from consuming the things that they actually want in the long run.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 12, 2013)

I love how I look around on sites like Kotaku and there are people defending the XBox One, saying things like:



I always have an internet connection, so why does it matter?
I never buy used games anyway
**bullshit alert** *Microsoft isn't forcing the used games thing, they're leaving it up to the publishers*
**bullshit alert** *Publishers want good publicity so they'll allow used games*
**bullshit alert** *It's no different than Steam*

Bullshit point number 1: Microsoft designed this system *with publishers in mind*. EA's Online Pass system and other companies' efforts to squash used games sales are the major reason why this system exists. EA denies having anything to do with lobbying Microsoft for the feature, but it's clear from their track record that unless Riccitiello was the one solely responsible for that policy, they're lying to your face.

Bullshit point number 2: Publishers want money. They don't give a shit about their reputation because you'll buy the games anyway. Exhibit A: Activision. Exhibit B: EA. Exhibit C: Ubisoft.

Bullshit point number 3: Unless games will be released new for $40 and have significant price drops every couple months with major sales twice per year (and many smaller sales on a continuous basis), no, it is not like Steam.

As for the internet connection issue, let me know how much fun you're having with your XBox One 10 years from now when the servers are down.

Microsoft apologists are delusional.


----------



## DarrylWolf (Jun 12, 2013)

I really hope this is Xbox (D)one because ever since they entered the video game console market in 2001, we have experienced nothing but problems in dealing with their systems. In an industry where mid-1980s NES consoles can still be expected to work reasonably well, Microsoft released a system notorious for contracting the "Red Ring of Death" within THREE years of purchase, rendering so many Xboxes and Xbox 360s permanently inoperable even at a normal rate of use, and at a much larger rate than would be expected for a high-end electronic device. It's as though Microsoft took the "planned obsolence" that proved unpopular in making lightbulbs and car tires and applied it to an entertainment device that costs hundreds of dollars. And it's not like "Fuzion Frenzy" or "Azurik: Rise of Perathia" inspire devotion to and confidence in Microsoft's ability to make games, and nearly all the adult video games worth playing can also be played on Sony's console, or even PC- it's only because of the "Halo" franchise that Microsoft has been able to stay competitive in the console business. And at this year's E3, Microsoft proved they hate the consumer by overpricing their system relative to Sony and Nintendo, severing friendly ties with used-game retailers, and making video gaming impossible for those without a stable Internet connection (goodbye rural gamers and members of the US military.) This contempt they show for video gamers may be too much for even a well-heeled company like Microsoft to overcome.

It is a possibility that backlash against Microsoft products could be so great they may have to leave the console business by 2020. That would leave whatever the next Playstations will look like to make money on violent action games and Nintendo to cash in on young/nostalgic gamers with Mario and Zelda, the latter being the underpowered yet affordable alternative.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 12, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Stupid consumers prevent smart consumers from consuming the things that they actually want in the long run.



Stupidity is more profitable for the companies though, if more people cared things would be very different. Make the best of an average situation I guess. 

Overall things aren't too bad. PC will Steam on (didyouseewhatididthere), and Nintendo and Sony have basically offered upgraded versions of current-gen tech. Nothing really changed except Microsoft suffered some profit loss.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 12, 2013)

On the other side of it it isn't like I don't understand where Microsoft was coming from. Game development is a costly business, but a lot of the problems are the game company's problem. They prey on their employees to work vast amounts of overtime without pay...aka Gamer 's Crunch. Give in demands of better graphics with higher budgets, and gamer entitlement at the expense of their bottom line apparently since the industry is supposedly profitable. Basically you hear about the earnings and layoffs.

So they try to look for ways to get more returns for their investors.

It is how that model was more forced vs Sony allowing it as an option is how it played out. It should have been left to the developers of games how to restrict sales.


http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/...e-problem-of-crunch-time-in-game-development/

That is why I tend to go for more indie development because of those practices.


----------



## Bambi (Jun 13, 2013)

I am debating on PS4, or upgrading my PC.

Looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online (Windows 7 or 8?) since they've essentially thought of incorporating player housing, turning into werewolves and vampires, etc., which is really fucking neat in my opinion because at first they weren't going to do that.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 13, 2013)

Bambi said:


> I am debating on PS4, or upgrading my PC.
> 
> Looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online (Windows 7 or 8?) since they've essentially thought of incorporating player housing, turning into werewolves and vampires, etc., which is really fucking neat in my opinion because at first they weren't going to do that.



Upgrade your PC, you'll enjoy better support, and, particularly with an MMO a longer life span and player count for the game. As for ESO specifically, I've been digging it since the announced it, as I sit right now I've got plans for an epic mage rouge Breton werewolf. It'll also mark the first time I've played anything but a Khajiit in an ES game since I'm not terrible interested in the Aldmeri Dominion (even though they're pretty interesting in this non-nazi elf form), and the Breton Rouge from the ESO trailer is enough of an AWESOME bad ass to make me want to play a Breton.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

Ruh roh, looks like there's even more DRM being announced... Region locking with a *vengeance*.

Not in one of the 21 countries supported at launch? Fuck you, wait or move. Gone on vacation to another country and took your XB1? Fuck you, get another XB1. Imported a foreign game? Fuck you, you have to play it in that country with that country's XB1.


----------



## Grimfang999 (Jun 13, 2013)

Bambi said:


> I am debating on PS4, or upgrading my PC.
> 
> Looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online (Windows 7 or 8?) since they've essentially thought of incorporating player housing, turning into werewolves and vampires, etc., which is really fucking neat in my opinion because at first they weren't going to do that.









Oh right... monies. Im upgrading my computer now myself, maybe buying ps4 whenever KH3 comes out, its the centerpiece of the meal.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Ruh roh, looks like there's even more DRM being announced... Region locking with a *vengeance*.
> 
> Not in one of the 21 countries supported at launch? Fuck you, wait or move. Gone on vacation to another country and took your XB1? Fuck you, get another XB1. Imported a foreign game? Fuck you, you have to play it in that country with that country's XB1.



If my favorite company decides to develop for this console exclusively like they did for 360... I. Am. FUCKED.


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## Corto (Jun 13, 2013)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124942-Xbox-One-Limited-To-21-Countries-At-Launch

Hahahhahahahahahahahaahhahahaha


----------



## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

How does that help sell the product at all. How? What are they trying to do?


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## Corto (Jun 13, 2013)

It makes sense. Most of the shit they're pushing on the Xbox (internet connectivity, services such as TV streaming) probably depend on an infrastructure that simply isn't there elsewhere (reliable internet, contracts, and such). I know for a fact that Live (and PSN) weren't supported on my country per-se until very recently, people simply made accounts as if they were from Mexico or the US (probably still do, I haven't checked. But I believe Live and/or PSN started "officialy" working here very recently). Considering the XBone _needs_ this to work _at all_, it makes sense not to sell the console where such stuff wouldn't be supported.

Of course, it makes sense from the point of view of the xbone, which is a completely retarded and idiotic point of view, but it's not like they threw darts at a globe to fill an arbitrary limitation.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 13, 2013)

Corto said:


> It makes sense. Most of the shit they're pushing on the Xbox (internet connectivity, services such as TV streaming) probably depend on an infrastructure that simply isn't there elsewhere (reliable internet, contracts, and such). I know for a fact that Live (and PSN) weren't supported on my country per-se until very recently, people simply made accounts as if they were from Mexico or the US (probably still do, I haven't checked. But I believe Live and/or PSN started "officialy" working here very recently). Considering the XBone _needs_ this to work _at all_, it makes sense not to sell the console where such stuff wouldn't be supported.
> 
> Of course, it makes sense from the point of view of the xbone, which is a completely retarded and idiotic point of view, but it's not like they threw darts at a globe to fill an arbitrary limitation.


Oh btw, you won't even be able to buy it in your country.  It's limited to twenty one.
â€¢ Australia
â€¢ Austria
â€¢ Belgium
â€¢ Brazil
â€¢ Canada
â€¢ Denmark
â€¢ Finland
â€¢ France
â€¢ Germany
â€¢ Ireland
â€¢ Italy
â€¢ Mexico
â€¢ Netherlands
â€¢ New Zealand
â€¢ Norway
â€¢ Russia
â€¢ Spain
â€¢ Sweden
â€¢ Switzerland
â€¢ United Kingdom
â€¢ United States

If you don't live in one of those countries and want a xboxone tough shit you're not getting one.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

Notably missing are: Japan (in fact, the entirety of Asia), Greece, Turkey, Hungary, Monaco, San Marino, Portugal, Poland, Iceland, Greenland, Argentina, South Africa, United Arab Emirates, Egypt, and Israel, off the top of my head.


----------



## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Notably missing are: Japan (in fact, the entirety of Asia), Greece, Turkey, Hungary, Monaco, San Marino, Portugal, Poland, Iceland, Greenland, Argentina, South Africa, United Arab Emirates, Egypt, and Israel, off the top of my head.


 I noticed the lack of Japan too, what gives?


----------



## thoron (Jun 13, 2013)

Teal said:


> I noticed the lack of Japan too, what gives?



I've heard Japan as a whole has become pretty disinfranchised with Xbox in general so my guess would be that MS just doesn't see Japan as a market worth their time. I could be wrong though but as a whole I think the 21 countries XBox One is being released in are the countries that XBox in general has been successful in.


----------



## Corto (Jun 13, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> Oh btw, you won't even be able to buy it in your country.  It's limited to twenty one.
> â€¢ Australia
> â€¢ Austria
> â€¢ Belgium
> ...



Thanks for telling me the thing I was specifically talking about already, which I stated three posts before yours.

EDIT as to have some actual content besides the snark: Yeah, the lack of Japan kinda surprised me above all else, but I've always heard that the Xbox was never popular there, so it makes sense I suppose.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Ruh roh, looks like there's even more DRM being announced... Region locking with a *vengeance*.
> 
> Not in one of the 21 countries supported at launch? Fuck you, wait or move. Gone on vacation to another country and took your XB1? Fuck you, get another XB1. Imported a foreign game? Fuck you, you have to play it in that country with that country's XB1.



Oh dear lord what fresh cancer is this. Are the consoles region-locked to the specific country? Say I buy one up the road (the UK) and want to play it where I live (literally 5 minutes over the border) will I get a 'THIS DEVICE IS FOR USE IN THE UK ONLY' message?


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Oh dear lord what fresh cancer is this. Are the consoles region-locked to the specific country? Say I buy one up the road (the UK) and want to play it where I live (literally 5 minutes over the border) will I get a 'THIS DEVICE IS FOR USE IN THE UK ONLY' message?


That's what it looks like right now.


----------



## Faustus (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Same here. We are a minority though, compared to most who will see 'oooh new xbox' and buy it without hesitation. This people aren't 'sheep' or anything, they just don't know about all the downsides and probably wouldn't care anyway. Let them have their restrictive overpriced FIFA boxes.


They'll care soon enough when they try and put a pre-owned game into the thing and it tries to charge them again for it...


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 13, 2013)

I swear, if I see another article about how "offended" people were by that "rape joke", stars will go supernova. I did not think people would make that big a deal of it.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Oh dear lord what fresh cancer is this. Are the consoles region-locked to the specific country? Say I buy one up the road (the UK) and want to play it where I live (literally 5 minutes over the border) will I get a 'THIS DEVICE IS FOR USE IN THE UK ONLY' message?



That's what it's looking like; By contrast, the PS4 has been confirmed region free. One has to wonder if Microsoft is _trying_ to fuck things up as much as possible, just to see if the console still sells.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> That's what it's looking like; By contrast, the PS4 has been confirmed region free. One has to wonder if Microsoft is _trying_ to fuck things up as much as possible, just to see if the console still sells.



Oh they have got to be taking the piss. I can fucking see the UK from my _window_. At least now I can tell you for certain everyone within a 50 mile radius of me will definitely be buying a PS4.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

Corto said:


> Thanks for telling me the thing I was specifically talking about already, which I stated three posts before yours.
> 
> EDIT as to have some actual content besides the snark: Yeah, the lack of Japan kinda surprised me above all else, but I've always heard that the Xbox was never popular there, so it makes sense I suppose.



Actually it's funnier that even the places that develop games for XBox won't be getting the console.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Actually it's funnier that even the places that develop games for XBox won't be getting the console.



What's funnier is that developers seem to be okay with this. All of this.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> What's funnier is that developers seem to be okay with this. All of this.



You sure they're ok with it? Some developers have US based studios, where they're not just in...like Japan per say. Others may not have anything to say at this point. The only other thing is that maybe some shrugged it off because they can sell it on Steam?


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You sure they're ok with it? Some developers have US based studios, where they're not just in...like Japan per say. Others may not have anything to say at this point. The only other thing is that maybe some shrugged it off because they can sell it on Steam?



I'm not sure what to think anymore. Considering giving this console generation a miss and using the money for interrailing or something. It just reads like one of those parody End of Gaming articles.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> What's funnier is that developers seem to be okay with this. All of this.


That's because Microsoft is doing this *for* the developers. Well, the publishers, anyway. More restrictions on how you purchase and use your content means more money for publishers. More repeat purchases, no more imports (since region locking can be done at the network level now), no more lost sales in the used market, every bit of content is full price; This system is a publisher's _wet dream_.

Yeah, it's up to the publishers to restrict used sales or not, but guess who that feature is for. You can bet Activision and EA won't be allowing second sales, at the very least.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> I'm not sure what to think anymore. Considering giving this console generation a miss and using the money for interrailing or something. It just reads like one of those parody End of Gaming articles.



Well they still haven't exactly answered the question of what happens if you miss the 24 hour deadline for the "ping"? He only said that in his experience that internet is down for a few minutes and tethering. But what's also common is that a unit may be down when you have a natural disaster/power outage for a few days. Or even more common you have to move. You have to take the unit offline, move to the new place and hope you can get internet set up by a week if lucky. Some places are a day but moving has never been exactly the smoothest thing. Delays happen.

So what happens?


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well they still haven't exactly answered the question of what happens if you miss the 24 hour deadline for the "ping"? He only said that in his experience that internet is down for a few minutes and tethering. But what's also common is that a unit may be down when you have a natural disaster/power outage for a few days. Or even more common you have to move. You have to take the unit offline, move to the new place and hope you can get internet set up by a week if lucky. Some places are a day but moving has never been exactly the smoothest thing. Delays happen.
> 
> So what happens?



Best guess:

'Your Microsoft Xbox One console has failed to complete a mandatory internet connection test. Please log on to www.microsoft.com to begin the lengthy process of proving you are not a thief, pirate, or other person without legal access to this device.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Best guess:
> 
> 'Your Microsoft Xbox One console has failed to complete a mandatory internet connection test. Please log on to www.microsoft.com to begin the lengthy process of proving you are not a thief, pirate, or other person without legal access to this device.



PS4 and WiiU will be the choice for Con Goers. I mean it's not uncommon to bring your console over during a convention and have parties. While some higher end hotels do rent out game consoles I remember people bringing their console over. If of course if they couldn't connect to the TV, WiiU has the advantage of the tablet being the TV.

I'm not sure how hotel guests would feel comfortable with a Kinnect outfitted to their room. (If the hotels manage to figure out how to deal with the DRM).


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 13, 2013)

Region-locked to each _country_? I want to punch the idiot who thought that was a good idea in the face.


----------



## Kosdu (Jun 13, 2013)

Honestly, fuck microsoft. I put them on the same level as EA now....


I'll be on my computer 'cause steam wants to be user friendly and not a douchebag, kthxbai.


----------



## Bambi (Jun 13, 2013)

Grimfang999 said:


> Oh right... monies. Im upgrading my computer now myself, maybe buying ps4 whenever KH3 comes out, its the centerpiece of the meal.


My hesitance with upgrading my PC, which would require a new everything since I am sitting on a Sempron 1.8ghz on an NeForce 3a motherboard, is deciding what exactly will last me for the years coming. Was going to go full gamer tank and skip out on the thinking bit, and go for a Power Gaming PC like what this company offers.

Not sure if right, or if someone knows better.


----------



## Kosdu (Jun 13, 2013)

Bambi said:


> My hesitance with upgrading my PC, which would require a new everything since I am sitting on a Sempron 1.8ghz on an NeForce 3a motherboard, is deciding what exactly will last me for the years coming. Was going to go full gamer tank and skip out on the thinking bit, and go for a Power Gaming PC like what this company offers.
> 
> Not sure if right, or if someone knows better.




Here is the best advice I can give for a gaming PC:

NEVER BUY A PREMADE. For the same performance you could build it at home for like half the cost, it's actually not that hard and would take at most a couple of days.

Buy parts from a year or two ago, you can get still get great performance but they are discounted compared to new ones.

Buy enough cooling fans.


But really... Never buy a premade, dude.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 13, 2013)

Kosdu said:


> NEVER BUY A PREMADE. For the same performance you could build it at home for like half the cost, it's actually not that hard and would take at most a couple of days.
> 
> Buy parts from a year or two ago, you can get still get great performance but they are discounted compared to new ones.
> 
> ...



What if you're like me and you don't know a scooby about building a PC?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> What if you're like me and you don't know a scooby about building a PC?



Newegg has video tutorials.


----------



## Bambi (Jun 13, 2013)

Kosdu said:


> Here is the best advice I can give for a gaming PC:
> 
> But really... Never buy a premade, dude.


Yep.

That's why what I am sitting on was custom built. If anything, teasing around the specs of a pre-made should give me an idea as to what I'd like to do, and learn about the different things that are out there before I build my own PC ... again. I could overclock my Sempron, but ... it's so dated.

Spry for an old lady, since I can play TF2 without difficulty, or Vanguard, or whichever, but I need to reach that final benchmark and she won't do it now.


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## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

Bambi said:


> My hesitance with upgrading my PC, which would require a new everything since I am sitting on a Sempron 1.8ghz on an NeForce 3a motherboard, is deciding what exactly will last me for the years coming.


Huh, yeah, you'd be looking at a whole new computer at this point. I'm honestly very surprised it's even still running. Seems like those old Sempron boards (guessing... Socket 754) were pretty solid.



> Was going to go full gamer tank and skip out on the thinking bit, and go for a Power Gaming PC like what this company offers.


Oh god no. If you're going to buy a pre-built, buy an ASUS or something. CyberPowerPC and iBuyPower (and really virtually any company with 'power' in the name) are pretty spectacularly terrible. Bad customer service/support, poor components, just generally shoddy. Agreed with the others on this one; Best to build your own, or barring that, getting someone who knows how to do so. You get to choose your own parts, you get individual warranties on all those parts, and just generally more reliable (though I guess that depends on the skill of the person building it and the quality of parts selected. If you need tech support though, it's a little harder to get from the specific part vendors than it would be through an OEM like HP or ASUS.


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## Kosdu (Jun 13, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> What if you're like me and you don't know a scooby about building a PC?



Instruction manuals and the internets.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 13, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Region-locked to each _country_? I want to punch the idiot who thought that was a good idea in the face.



Yeah, that really is the stupidest thing they came up with.
Now I wonder... Can I register a _game_ that I imported from England on a german ONE? I import almost all of my games because they are a shitload cheaper in England. Like, a third cheaper.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

I feel sorry for people who have relatives overseas that may have wanted to surprise them with an Xbox, guess it's PS4 then lol.


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## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Yeah, that really is the stupidest thing they came up with.
> Now I wonder... Can I register a _game_ that I imported from England on a german ONE? I import almost all of my games because they are a shitload cheaper in England. Like, a third cheaper.



Huh, I get my games from Germany because they're cheaper there. What console? I buy DS & 3DS.


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## Bambi (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Huh, yeah, you'd be looking at a whole new computer at this point. I'm honestly very surprised it's even still running. Seems like those old Sempron boards (guessing... Socket 754) were pretty solid.


Sempron on an nForce 3 is just stupid sturdy. Apparently, and this is if I knew a thing or two about over-clocking, I could jump it to a 2.2ghz machine, provided I knew what I was doing. lol

So, ASUS does pre-built? I'd love to have something that could do HD, so I'm already looking at something over 2,000 dollars.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

Here's a pretty good article on the internet problem. While the ping is very small data and not necessarily something huge that does require a broadband connection. I love how the article points to Sony's embarrassing hack (which I think was very shameful for Sony) that put the PSN down for a month.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420118,00.asp

Now what happens when a very "delicious" target is to take down Xbox's servers because of this requirement?



Bambi said:


> So, ASUS does pre-built? I'd love to have something that could do HD, so I'm already looking at something over 2,000 dollars.



If you want to keep discussing PC parts and building please go to the forum dedicated to it.


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## Bambi (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> If you want to keep discussing PC parts and building please go to the forum dedicated to it.


Ooops, sorry about that Arshes.

@PS4: I played the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 for awhile, and I liked the controller lay-out somewhat (the XBox's feels more natural), so I'm just curious how well the default design continues to work with games like Battlefield 3 and such. How responsive is it? Does it feel as natural as say, using the XBox 360's controller? Better, worse? It's been awhile. Last game I played was Parasite Eve 2, which is no console based FPS.

I will be getting a PS4, no doubt about it. I'm just hoping that if I can't stomach the launch controller, will there be other peripherals I wonder? I'd love to use a mouse and keyboard for once, so not sure if.


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## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Now what happens when a very "delicious" target is to take down Xbox's servers because of this requirement?


 I would find that beyond hilarious.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

Bambi said:


> Ooops, sorry about that Arshes.
> 
> @PS4: I played the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 for awhile, and I liked the controller lay-out somewhat (the XBox's feels more natural), so I'm just curious how well the default design continues to work with games like Battlefield 3 and such. Does it feel as natural as say, using the XBox 360's controller? Better, worse? It's been awhile. Last game I played was Parasite Eve 2.




I guess I am one of the few that like the PS2 controllers. I know people have said the Xbox's feel more natural. But even when I'm at home, I didn't buy a controller like an Xbox one, I just bought the USB converter and plug my PS2 ones in. 

Now weird controllers were the Dreamcast ones. 

I guess it takes getting used to no matter your preference - ie I think it takes some getting used to for me to play Xbox ones since I actually prefer the PS setup, and vice versa for you. 

Worst setups for me were one of those old Nintendo controllers...the 64?

If anyone remembers Tiamat on the forums, he's from South Africa, so he's not on the list for Xbox One I guess he's forced to get a PS4 if he wants to upgrade. I also know people from places like Iran (which has an interesting dichotomy) and Phlippines are also excluded.

I'll be honest though, I haven't seen any games at E3 that grabbed me where I would get a gaming system to play a game (I usually like to see a library before purchasing). Though I do have a PC (icore7 with 32gb of ram) so I may actually try the Elder Scrolls Online. 

I never got into Halo so I don't really see it as a miss. I actually like more strategy and RPGs or oddball action games like Katamari. Steam/GoG/Humble Bundle/Amazon Downloads has also turned me onto fun indie games as well

Transistor stars a female - indie game by Supergiant. 
Broken Age - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




That being said since it's more about XboxOne, it's really ironic how they were pushing things like digital age and social sharing, they add in restrictions that make it hard to use what it's supposed to be about. Global social sharing. People connect all over the world and share experiences in gaming. But forcing when and how makes it feel a bit draconian in some regards.


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## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

I liked the GameCube controller the best.


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## Falaffel (Jun 13, 2013)

Teal said:


> I liked the GameCube controller the best.



I think most people did.

I loved that damn purple controller.


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## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> I think most people did.
> 
> I loved that damn purple controller.


Mine was grey. XD


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## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Teal said:


> I liked the GameCube controller the best.



Verily, it had the best analogue stick of all ever. Playstation is the best all-rounder though.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 13, 2013)

Teal said:


> I liked the GameCube controller the best.



I love my silver GameCube controller. It fits in my hands perfectly, and that analogue stick is beyond words.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420447,00.asp

I thought this article was interesting because I think people are dismissing the value of $100 dollars, specially with the way a certain generation is growing up and learning to do without. Generation X might be brand loyal, but your upcoming demographic of Generation Y is not. There are people invested where they want to play more Halo but there are also those who know in a tough economy and gaming they may change their gaming habits. 

Paying $100 more may actually be a difference in consumer spending. If you can get more games to go with your device if that's what you're into - then it is a consideration.

If you're worried about fantasy football being integrated with your TV then paying $100 more for it may be the consideration. But with Smart TVs and other devices, its it a necessity? "Oh look I can talk to my TV"...I still have an issue using the talk function or Siri on my other devices - the novelty wears out. 

Really, the thing that's funny about the article is that Nintendo actually won for a long time. Why? Because it was uncomplicated bullshit. That's what brought in casual gamers more money. While people complained it wasn't feeding into hardcores...least with a softer price tag and ...you know GAMES it brought in more diversity because games were supposed to be fun.  That doesn't mean I am a fan of Nintendo's library but I can see the appeal of their system when I had some time to kick back and use it. 

So yeah I think it may bite XBox globally.


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## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

Nintendo seems to have problems with it's launches recently. The game libraries suck at first but then suddenly have a lot of good games. (looking at you 3DS)


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## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Paying $100 more may actually be a difference in consumer spending. If you can get more games to go with your device if that's what you're into - then it is a consideration.


I think that article is a little biased and jumping the gun by quite a large margin. "Changing the way we watch TV" isn't exactly something that most people care about, especially since it happens to be nothing more than a voice controlled channel guide. I definitely agree that the $100 may in fact be a deciding factor for many people, especially when considering that, TV aspects aside, the PS4 is capable of most of what the XB1 is (though obviously if you want your dude bro brah fix with fantasy football, you'll have to use the XB1... Or, y'know, your laptop or tablet/smartphone like everyone else does because it's easier and less obtrusive).

Though yes, people will buy it for Halo, and COD bros "pros" will buy it for the "pro gaming" aspect (sponsored by XBox). I imagine many people will buy it simply thinking that it may be more powerful due to the higher price tag or because they had the 360 or otherwise just don't know better. But the issues surrounding the XB1 have been circulating even in some mainstream media and especially on social media.

Really, the extra $100 is going to Kinect. It's nice to know that Microsoft at least isn't fracturing their market by making a hard stance on Kinect, but I can't think of any instance where anyone's truly liked Kinect. Add that to Microsoft's involvement in PRISM, the always-online requirement and the always-connected Kinect requirement, and you have some serious and very real concerns about privacy along with having a sensor you may never actually use, or worse, might cause problems if you're a gesture talker or mention the keyword "XBox".



Teal said:


> Nintendo seems to have problems with it's  launches recently. The game libraries suck at first but then suddenly  have a lot of good games. (looking at you 3DS)


Honestly, Nintendo consoles have, since the SNES was shelved, almost  always had shitty third party support by comparison to the competition.  Not exactly true with the NDS (and now the 3DS), but those handhelds  also had poor support at launch. It's almost always been Nintendo's  first-party titles that carry their systems, and mostly why anyone would  need to buy a PS4/XB1/gaming PC along with a WiiU if they wanted to  play much of anything other than Nintendo first-party titles. They haven't really been a serious contender in the mainstream home console market since the 90's.


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## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

At least Microsoft still have that OS domination thing. Windows 8 may suck, but hopefully the upcoming service pack will sort it out. Before anyone asks, no I didn't care about the start button or welcome screen. Everytime there was a problem it was like the OS was actively preventing me from fixing it.

Outlook is pretty good?


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## Judge Spear (Jun 13, 2013)

Teal said:


> Nintendo seems to have problems with it's launches recently. The game libraries suck at first but then suddenly have a lot of good games. (looking at you 3DS)



Wii and Wii U...well Wii did better. Excite Truck was awesome.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> They haven't really been a serious contender in the mainstream home console market since the 90's.



Sorry, but no. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles

Basically Xbox won over PS3 by a slim margin if it's about a 7mill difference, but Wii did almost a 20 mill difference. DS sold very well especially for a handheld.

I don't know how it's not a "serious contender" that it did this with lack of 3rd party support...well...

Maybe Nintendo did something right by opting for a different venue than E3 because ...well E3 used to be fun and stuff and geeks being geeks. Which from the Smash Bros thread that's what they were in that one photo.

Sony and MS were trying too hard to be hip with this weird juxtaposition of White Guys in suits that you see at the office water cooler, blaring loud music mostly made by Black people trying to hard to look cool and "one of you gamers". It kinda was ...bizarro world.


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## Seekrit (Jun 13, 2013)

Hey.

There is nothing more hardcore than a middle-aged white guy in a suit, talkin bout GAEMING.


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## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

The Wii sold like hotcakes, but not because of third party support:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

Basically, far and away the major reason people ever bought a Wii was for Nintendo first-party titles. That's what I'm talking about here.

Same was true of the Gamecube:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_GameCube_video_games


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## Teal (Jun 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> The Wii sold like hotcakes, but not because of third party support:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games
> 
> *Basically, far and away the major reason people ever bought a Wii was for Nintendo first-party titles*. That's what I'm talking about here.


 That's the reason I got mine.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

Yeah so what? That is not the definition of it being or not being a serious contender. And the fact it sells better without it tells you how strong those titles are.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Sony and MS were trying too hard to be hip with this *weird juxtaposition of White Guys in suits that you see at the office water cooler, blaring loud music mostly made by Black people* trying to hard to look cool and "one of you gamers". It kinda was ...bizarro world.



Never seen you say something that funny. ROFL!!


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## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yeah so what? That is not the definition of it being or not being a serious contender. And the fact it sells better without it tells you how strong those titles are.


What I'm saying is that Nintendo has games that are not available on any other platform, and vice-versa - The other platforms have even multiplatform titles that Nintendo doesn't get. The point is, Nintendo's consoles don't stand on their own as all-around game consoles, and most people who are into gaming adopt the approach of choosing either Sony or Microsoft, plus Nintendo.

They are in their own market segment.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

They are not their own market, they are a stronger market that knows how to sell game consoles with strong titles.
I am looking at it objectively. It seems you are going off sour grapes since you wanted to dismiss Nintendo.

Nintendo IS a gaming company. Sony and Microsoft have divisions for games

Nintendo's stance on used games? If you're worried about used game sales, make better games. 

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/13/44...rried-about-used-game-sales-make-better-games


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## Runefox (Jun 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> They are not their own market, they are a stronger market that knows how to sell game consoles with strong titles.
> I am looking at it objectively. It seems you are going off sour grapes since you wanted to dismiss Nintendo.


I _am_ looking at it objectively; mainstream AAA titles just don't often land on Nintendo's consoles, and only Nintendo titles tend to do well on them. They are a gaming company that specifically caters to releasing their own games on their own platforms, and as a result they are a different market segment that is not in direct competition with Sony or Microsoft because there's scarcely any overlap. This is evident by the fact that the only top-selling games for the past two generations of Nintendo home consoles have been Nintendo-published titles, with Ubisoft generally being one of, if not the only third party to make any impact. Many gamers will opt to go with one of the other two plus Nintendo to get the whole experience (which is helped by a traditionally lower price tag for Nintendo hardware).

I'm not trying to dismiss Nintendo, they're just not in the same race. They aren't vying with Sony or Microsoft for third party support. They aren't vying to become 'the' platform to play a certain multi-platform title on (and in fact, they rarely get multi-platform titles). Exclusives are a big part of the race, for sure, and Nintendo's games are in fact amazing and themselves make it worth the purchase of their consoles (I have a 3DS, a Wii, and a WiiU), but at the same time, third party support is virtually nonexistent, which means if you're buying a Nintendo console, you are buying it for Nintendo games. Like you said, Nintendo IS a gaming company. For me, it's more like a publisher with their own console for their games rather than a console that's meant to contend for the #1 position overall.

My major point here is that the difference between Nintendo and Sony/Microsoft is extremely high compared to Microsoft and Sony on their own. In general, there is a vastly larger library of arguably good third party games available for Microsoft and Sony's platforms that are highly sought after - Games like Battlefield and Call of Duty are some specific examples, which usually either never make it to a Nintendo console or are completely different games from their Sony/MSFT counterparts.

Most of the people who I've spoken with have all expressed interest in PS4 + WiiU as the optimal configuration for gaming this time around, and I tend to agree - That or PC + WiiU.

On that note, this is getting pretty far off topic. But isn't it sad that while the industry *started* by the hand of publishers creating platforms for their own games, it is now comprised 2/3 of companies that have never prior been involved in gaming? I miss old innovator Sega, and whatever version of Atari out of the millions of times the brand has changed hands released the Jaguar. Terrible system but at least they tried.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 13, 2013)

Oh...no. That's the worst one. He ground pounded him! lol


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 13, 2013)

So basically, "They're not a contender even though they're a major gaming company that actually makes their own games" 

I really doubt that's a completely different market. I mean you can add all the words to it you want.

Being a 3rd Party developer is not the issue so much as they are selling consoles, and games. People buy games. People buy consoles. It opened up for new markets which Microsoft and Sony tried to copy, because the Wii was still outselling them when supposedly this AAA thing is really the issue huh?

I think making quality games to keep your customers around is the issue - being a AAA title is just second to that regardless of who you are developing for.

I've already mentioned in prior threads I'd like to see new properties being pushed by Nintendo instead of ones that were around for 30 years now. 

But Microsoft was going off being a slightly better price point and controller for Xbox360 and Development I recall correctly was a bit easier. 

DS as a handheld had several hundred titles if I remember correctly. Different developers as well.


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## Vega (Jun 14, 2013)

So.... is there any reason to even buy an Xbox One over a PS4?  Because I sure don't.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 14, 2013)

Vega said:


> So.... is there any reason to even buy an Xbox One over a PS4?  Because I sure don't.



Jazz Hands?


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 14, 2013)

Vega said:


> So.... is there any reason to even buy an Xbox One over a PS4?  Because I sure don't.


to compensate for your constant rational thinking ahead and planning for situations by making a poor choice?
If your an exhibitionist the xbone is prolly the sexiest console.


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## DarrylWolf (Jun 14, 2013)

Halo is the only reason to buy anything Xbox-related.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 14, 2013)

paying 560 dollars for one game is a bit much....


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## Fernin (Jun 14, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> paying 560 dollars for one game is a bit much....



No, $560+ is not too much to pay to play one game...

http://us.fanatec.com/Bundles?product_id=168 + http://us.fanatec.com/Stand?product_id=555 , all just for Forza 4 (well, Forza and iRacing.)... The reasons however to not buy an XB1 are more moral than economic...


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## CaptainCool (Jun 14, 2013)

Vega said:


> So.... is there any reason to even buy an Xbox One over a PS4?  Because I sure don't.



Exclusives. Those are the only reason to buy one console over the other. Halo fans don't care whether the PS4 is more powerful because they can't play Halo on it. Just like Mario fans wouldn't choose the One or the PS4 as their first console of choice because they can't play Mario games on them.
And as I said in the other thread in the R&R section, this is also the reason why the new Xbox will be a financial success for Microsoft.
Sure, most fanboys are complaining right now. But do you remember how everyone wanted to boycott the PC version of Call of Duty MW2 because it didn't have dedicated server support? And do you remember what happened once the game was out? http://www.destructoid.com/this-is-what-the-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing-154944.phtml
They want to play the new Halo. For that they need the new Xbox. So they are gonna buy the new Xbox day 1. And those who are doubtful are gonna cave in when the first price cut comes. I guarantee it.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 14, 2013)

People may not be able to afford an Xbox if the generation they're marketing will eventually die of heart disease

In the US it will do fine, not so sure about global markets...

Maybe they can program Kinnect to tell them when they're being a fatty


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## Runefox (Jun 14, 2013)

Oh good, they clarified game pricing: $59, like it's always been.

lol.

EDIT: Also doesn't come with a headset.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 14, 2013)

Runefox said:


> EDIT: Also doesn't come with a headset.



That cheap POS that came with the 360 costs like 2 cents to make. They could just include that again and sell a better one seperately...
This isn't someting I am mad about in any way, I just think it makes them look a little cheap. Xbox live is also all about communication so this choice is just weird.
The PS3 didn't come with a headset as well for example and I am sure the PS4 won't have one included as well. Although to be honest, voice chat is pointless on the PS3 anyway^^ I have the PS3 bluetooth headset and I have used it exactly once on my PS3. And that was just to test it. I mainly use it for my PC.


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## Runefox (Jun 14, 2013)

Yeah, the thing is though, XBox Live has always been defined by that headset. For a console designed entirely around the service not to come with the headset? That's really odd.

Aaaaaand yeah, virtually nobody on PSN has a headset. I don't even know why I bought my Bluetooth headset. But that's the thing; Without an official headset that comes with the console / service, what do you expect? I think Microsoft could have ponied up the extra buck or two per unit at $500.

EDIT: Looks like MSFT employees may have tried to crash certain Nintendo E3 events at Best Buy


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## Judge Spear (Jun 14, 2013)

DarrylWolf said:


> Halo is the only reason to buy anything Xbox-related.



Do you know who I am? .-.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 14, 2013)

Double post because Chrome crashed.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 14, 2013)

Runefox said:


> EDIT: Looks like MSFT employees may have tried to crash certain Nintendo E3 events at Best Buy



If those guys really are MS employees then that really is pretty pathetic.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 14, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> The PS3 didn't come with a headset as well for example and I am sure the PS4 won't have one included as well. Although to be honest, voice chat is pointless on the PS3 anyway^^ I have the PS3 bluetooth headset and I have used it exactly once on my PS3. And that was just to test it. I mainly use it for my PC.



The PS4 will come with 1 controller, 1 HDMI cable and 1 Headset. Source (Sony's own Press release): http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130611a_e.pdf

Included PlayStationÂ®4 system Ã— 1
Wireless Controller (DUALSHOCKÂ®4) Ã— 1
Mono headset Ã— 1
AC power cord Ã— 1
HDMI cable Ã— 1
USB cable Ã— 1

If PSN+ is going to take off and more interaction and sharing is promoted, that headset may get more use. If they're smart, they just give the first year as a part of the bundle for free. Or even the 3 months I think people will get hooked on it. It is only about 
4 bucks a month. That's probably one less Fast Food meal you could be eating, or one of those Venti Starbucks Fraps (if you're in the US at least)

I've been looking for the MS specs to see what goodies came with the console.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 14, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The PS4 will come with 1 controller, 1 HDMI cable and 1 Headset. Source (Sony's own Press release): http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130611a_e.pdf
> 
> Included PlayStationÂ®4 system Ã— 1
> Wireless Controller (DUALSHOCKÂ®4) Ã— 1
> ...



Oh neat! That is cool.
4 bucks a month really isn't all that terrible. You get free games as well afterall.


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## Runefox (Jun 14, 2013)

_*Completely *_on a tangent, but...


Arshes Nei said:


> 4 bucks a month. That's probably one less Fast Food meal you could be eating


Where can I get a fast food meal for $4?!

Interesting to see Sony actually did bundle the headset. I thought I'd heard something to that effect... Even in this, I can't help but think all logic was thrown to the wind by Microsoft. :|


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## Seekrit (Jun 14, 2013)

So, given all the juicy reveals over the last week, is anyone here still considering an Xbox? Come on now, speak up.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 14, 2013)

Runefox said:


> _*Completely *_on a tangent, but...
> 
> Where can I get a fast food meal for $4?!
> 
> Interesting to see Sony actually did bundle the headset. I thought I'd heard something to that effect... Even in this, I can't help but think all logic was thrown to the wind by Microsoft. :|



Del Taco, Carl's Jr/Green Burrito, and those with value menus 

PSN+ still isn't mandatory for me to use Netflix and other stuff on PS4 - where Xbox One the membership as well as online access seems to be a requirement to even use the unit. Seems bizarre to make you double pay for Netflix in my opinion. 

But the other strategy is how Sony uses that Cloud, for example Dragon Crown is not only portable for Vita, but you can play it on your console. 

Since Nintendo and Sony have portables, this is the one thing that MS lacks, and also can be a factor in using services. Though I know they're refining and improving the Smartglass feature. Oddly enough that's something I feel they should have focused more on.

Most of us are out there trying to *earn* money to play these damn games... so ways to enhance or be connected should have been something to work more on - not just how we act in the living room. We can't be around our consoles all day - so if MS had focused more on how we interact with them away from the console itself - or a way it becomes more part of the daily lives not just a TV/couch/living room experience, people might be more receptive to the other stuff they are pushing.


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## Runefox (Jun 14, 2013)

Not exactly surprising news, but Microsoft decided to take a page from Sony's book and forbid suing them. Sony did it in the aftermath of the PSN hack, but MSFT I think is doing it to cover their asses because you can't even play offline while Live is down, thus making all your XB1-related purchases worthless (which they ultimately will be, because the console will lock everything out if it can't connect to the servers, which will one day be taken down - You're just renting the games from Microsoft).


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## TrishaCat (Jun 14, 2013)

If this is real, Microsoft shoots its foot even more.
This seems suspicious though. It was @XboxSupport but the response is from @XboxSupport2


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## Volkodav (Jun 14, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> If this is real, Microsoft shoots its foot even more.
> This seems suspicious though. It was @XboxSupport but the response is from @XboxSupport2



Xbox Support (the verified account) says (1-5) in the username, and there are XboxSupport___ all the way up to 12 :/
Apparently they're "Xbox Overflow Accounts"


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 14, 2013)

Why Microsoft fails in the mobile market: making everything as stationary as fuck.


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## Runefox (Jun 14, 2013)

Yeah, XBoxSupport2 is an official Twitter feed.

Maybe they're saying they're going to keep making 360 ports of everything and give them to you free of charge when you buy a game. Because that's the only way this line of thinking makes any sense.


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## Falaffel (Jun 14, 2013)

So has anything good come from XBone?


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## Volkodav (Jun 15, 2013)

I guess the Call of Duty dog is kinda cool?


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## Falaffel (Jun 15, 2013)

Clayton said:


> I guess the Call of Duty dog is kinda cool?



CoD dog and fish are a given :V


----------



## Runefox (Jun 15, 2013)

Clayton said:


> I guess the Call of Duty dog is kinda cool?



Yeah but CoD Dog is on every platform, he just happened to make his debut on the MS reveal.

EDIT: Hey look, if you get banned on Live, Microsoft takes your games away.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 15, 2013)

Runefox said:


> EDIT: Hey look, if you get banned on Live, Microsoft takes your games away.



Just saw that as well. While penalizing people and banning them is all good and nice, this does take it a little too far. Making a games collection that is worth a couple hundred bucks (depending on how big it is) completely unplayable sucks no matter how you are looking at it.
Oh well, I just hope it will keep 13 year olds on Xbox live from shouting homophobic slurs at people  In that regard they really could put all that monitoring to good use! XD


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 15, 2013)

You'd think Microsoft would try to damage control.


----------



## Bambi (Jun 15, 2013)

[video=youtube;5MWNvv9ZMSc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MWNvv9ZMSc[/video]
Video is the cringe worthy expo's of both of the consoles. I'm not sure if it's the event, or the people, but both sides seemed really nervous. Like, goddamn levels of nervous.

Cracked did an interesting article here concerning console gaming in general; made some good points concerning the XBox One and the PlayStation 4.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 15, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> You'd think Microsoft would try to damage control.



They damaged control with the Kinect already!
OHHHHHHHHHHH!


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 15, 2013)

Bambi said:


> Cracked did an interesting article here concerning console gaming in general; made some good points concerning the XBox One and the PlayStation 4.



I'm missing something - it's connected to another Youtube?

I did see this article - http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-every-game-company-gets-wrong-about-gamers_p2/

10 Feet of Open Floor Space to use the Kinnect. Oh...they had to put in that Nightmare fuel inducing image of Lebron James lol.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 15, 2013)

So apparently this happened at e3-


----------



## Kalmor (Jun 15, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> So apparently this happened at e3-


Is that a nvidia GTX card I see in there? I can't tell which one though.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 15, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> So apparently this happened at e3-
> 
> -snip-



Are they using PC's in an Xbox One booth?


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 15, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Are they using PC's in an Xbox One booth?


Eeyup, they sure are.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 15, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Are they using PC's in an Xbox One booth?



That's actually not surprising. You don't exactly get an Xbox One straight off and developed when creating games. You get a development kit. That's usually means a PC that runs the operating system for the console. Why do you think the look of the PS4 was so under wraps. Any employee could have leaked its design online if they were working on the system. But the controller was leaked.

http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-...-ps4-developer-kits-version-2-surface-at-ign/

By the way, that was the EA games that were running on it. http://n4g.com/news/1282540/xbox-one-games-at-e3-were-running-on-windows-7-with-nvidia-gtx-cards

Since EA is not platform specific, this is even less surprising honestly. But what is funny is that even developers don't want to touch Windows 8.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 15, 2013)

Didn't Gabe Newell himself say Win8 was garbage?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 15, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Didn't Gabe Newell himself say Win8 was garbage?



I particularly don't care of he did since he's not the MoAT (Master of All Things) - basically I think he has some points but he's not the only source and I prefer multiple sources backing this opinion up. But I know a lot of IT won't touch Windows 8 for many reasons...but I digress...

If you look closely there are 2 boxes in the cabinet. One is a PC, the other may actually is likely the dev kit itself. I mean if you look at the booth, where is the fucking Kinnect. That should have been everyone's first suspicion. So obviously these games were developed before the Xobx One console was finalized, EA is working for multiple platforms.


----------



## Grimfang999 (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm actually feeling really bad for the people maintaining the xboxsupport twitter feeds. Getting so much hate and questions when they probably arnt even in the know themselves, probably also have the xboxone but have to still pretend to support it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 15, 2013)

Grimfang999 said:


> I'm actually feeling really bad for the people maintaining the xboxsupport twitter feeds. Getting so much hate and questions when they probably arnt even in the know themselves, probably also have the xboxone but have to still pretend to support it.



Considering the location of Microsoft, anyone who had a good job (pay wise) worked for Microsoft and Seattle was actually one of the places for design ( I mean graphic design and even web graphic design) during the DOTCOM but it does kinda floor me a bit that Even Microsoft forgets that WA state has some of the worst storms ever. I remember power being out for weeks, we had to boil water for baths during one storm, and it happened again not too long ago. The people probably buying the Xbox live out in areas where forests are still about and have been known to cause damage.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 15, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Didn't Gabe Newell himself say Win8 was garbage?


Gaben said that because Microsoft was implementing the Microsoft Store with it and thus starting on the road to a competing software distribution platform to Steam, much like how Steam competes with the Mac App Store on the Mac. That's what they're complaining about mostly; It's not due to software limitations or anything like that. On the contrary, Win8 is actually faster than Win7 in most things.


----------



## Corto (Jun 15, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I particularly don't care of he did since he's not the MoAT (Master of All Things)


TAKE THAT BACK YOU FILTHY CONSOLE PLEB


----------



## Teal (Jun 15, 2013)

Runefox said:


> EDIT: Hey look, if you get banned on Live, Microsoft takes your games away.


 XD


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 15, 2013)

How should that be a surprise?


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 15, 2013)

So...
Is... anybody getting one of these?

..
anybody?


----------



## Azure (Jun 15, 2013)

lobotomies are more fun than the xbox one


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 15, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> How should that be a surprise?



What? Losing what you paid for because you said some dirty words? Why would anyone NOT be surprised?


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 15, 2013)

Clayton said:


> So...
> Is... anybody getting one of these?
> 
> ..
> anybody?



Only MS fanboys who have a Stockholm syndrome-like relationship with Xbox will.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 15, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> How should that be a surprise?


One would think that you would only lose your access to Xbox Live, not the games you purchased with real money and don't have to play on Xbox Live.  That's what's surprising.


----------



## Teal (Jun 15, 2013)

Azure said:


> lobotomies are more fun than the xbox one


 But if you're lobotomized you'll definitely end up buying one. D:


----------



## Runefox (Jun 16, 2013)

Teal said:


> But if you're lobotomized you'll definitely end up buying one. D:


I have to agree. Ever since my lobotomy, I've never been happier. It's just so much easier being told how to do things now, all the guess work is taken care of for me so I can enjoy the pleasures of life, like XBox One. I can't wait to try out the daily check-in feature and pose nude in front of the Kinect for the NSA.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I have to agree. Ever since my lobotomy, I've never been happier. It's just so much easier being told how to do things now, all the guess work is taken care of for me so I can enjoy the pleasures of life, like XBox One. I can't wait to try out the daily check-in feature and pose nude in front of the Kinect for the NSA.



Make sure you have 10 feet of space before you do, or Kinect will tell you to back yo shit up.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I have to agree. Ever since my lobotomy, I've never been happier. It's just so much easier being told how to do things now, all the guess work is taken care of for me so I can enjoy the pleasures of life, like XBox One. I can't wait to try out the daily check-in feature and pose nude in front of the Kinect for the NSA.



Actually it would be the FBI or CIA. NSA is largely foreign matters instead of domestic.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 16, 2013)

Fernin said:


> Actually it would be the FBI or CIA. NSA is largely foreign matters instead of domestic.


And I live in Canada.


----------



## Sonicality (Jun 16, 2013)

Just sat through Major Nelson's Reddit interview: 
[video=youtube;2lMhjM9BK7M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=2lMhjM9BK7M[/video]

In summary:










^ Feel free to use these at your leisure.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 16, 2013)

Someone is lying...
Major Nelson said the EXACT opposite as the XBox Support Twitter.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Someone is lying...
> Major Nelson said the EXACT opposite as the XBox Support Twitter.



http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Banned-Xbox-Live-Accounts-Lose-Access-All-Xbox-One-Games-56755.html

They're trying to say it is in reference to Xbox 360 but that's confusing because Xbox360 is not tied to your account the way Xbox One will be?


----------



## Fernin (Jun 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> And I live in Canada.



Then you'll have to deal with CSIS instead of a US agency. X3


----------



## thoron (Jun 16, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Banned-Xbox-Live-Accounts-Lose-Access-All-Xbox-One-Games-56755.html
> 
> They're trying to say it is in reference to Xbox 360 but that's confusing because Xbox360 is not tied to your account the way Xbox One will be?



This sort of policy will likely seal the coffin on the next generation of XBox since I imagine many kids who don't have a filter and the mothers of those kids are not going to be pleased that hundreds of dollars worth of products will more or less be stolen from them. I smell lawsuits in the future for MS of the class action variety even though their TOS says that you waive those rights. A good enough lawyer will find a way around it or a judge can also deem such waivers illegal too.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 16, 2013)

thoron said:


> This sort of policy will likely seal the coffin on the next generation of XBox since I imagine many kids who don't have a filter and the mothers of those kids are not going to be pleased that hundreds of dollars worth of products will more or less be stolen from them. I smell lawsuits in the future for MS of the class action variety even though their TOS says that you waive those rights. A good enough lawyer will find a way around it or a judge can also deem such waivers illegal too.



About 1/3 of both Sony and MS's TOS is functionally illegal anyways. They get away with it because by the wording it's technically within the bounds of the law, but the function it enacts is, in fact, illegal. Unfortunately to challenge it you need mountains of money and the people who have that kind of money just don't care.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 16, 2013)

Teal said:


> But a lot of us don't have 10 feet. D:



Which is why the Kinect is useless for most college students.


----------



## thoron (Jun 16, 2013)

Fernin said:


> About 1/3 of both Sony and MS's TOS is functionally illegal anyways. They get away with it because by the wording it's technically within the bounds of the law, but the function it enacts is, in fact, illegal. Unfortunately to challenge it you need mountains of money and the people who have that kind of money just don't care.



Remember though in a class action lawsuit the lawyers don't get paid unless they win. Also class action lawsuits don't happen unless a large number of people band together in the first place.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 16, 2013)

thoron said:


> Remember though in a class action lawsuit the lawyers don't get paid unless they win. Also class action lawsuits don't happen unless a large number of people band together in the first place.



And the lawyers always win, the consumer just gets a 30 cent coupon to some shit. That's why most have just become disenfranchised with said suits.


----------



## thoron (Jun 16, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> And the lawyers always win, the consumer just gets a 30 cent coupon to some shit. That's why most have just become disenfranchised with said suits.



Or a coupon for a free game or two. Weather or not a lawsuit of any sort is braught against MS doesn't really matter though, every one who games have more or less been stolen by the ban will likely leave XBox entirely and potentially bring others with them who don't want to put up with such BS as well.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 16, 2013)

thoron said:


> Remember though in a class action lawsuit the lawyers don't get paid unless they win. Also class action lawsuits don't happen unless a large number of people band together in the first place.


Sony and MSFT both have in their EULA clauses that essentially say you can't make a class-action case against them. Sony did it for PSN primarily, Microsoft is doing it for the whole console, because, y'know, always online. Basically they're saying "In 10 years, we'll shut down the servers and all your games will cease to function. You could sue us... But you won't get anywhere because you signed away your right to file a class action suit. So we don't care."

So suing them is one thing, challenging that their "no right to sue" wording is illegal is another thing entirely. For most people in the world, it would be cheaper and easier to eat the loss of several hundreds of dollars worth of games than the several (hundreds of?) millions it would take to win that battle.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 16, 2013)

There isn't a point to sue if you can already obtain this information freely.


----------



## thoron (Jun 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Sony and MSFT both have in their EULA clauses that essentially say you can't make a class-action case against them. Sony did it for PSN primarily, Microsoft is doing it for the whole console, because, y'know, always online. Basically they're saying "In 10 years, we'll shut down the servers and all your games will cease to function. You could sue us... But you won't get anywhere because you signed away your right to file a class action suit. So we don't care."
> 
> So suing them is one thing, challenging that their "no right to sue" wording is illegal is another thing entirely. For most people in the world, it would be cheaper and easier to eat the loss of several hundreds of dollars worth of games than the several (hundreds of?) millions it would take to win that battle.



As it currently stands its only to keep it from becoming class action which would hurt the company if something like that ever came to pass. Suing is currently case by case who's claims are only big enough to be in a small claims court. However a good lawyer or attorney will find ways around the class action clause. When ever it comes to contracts the devil is in the details.


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 17, 2013)

I have the unlikely hope that MS make 360 ports of some of their games, or fix everything that's wrong about XB1.
I would like to play KI3 without selling my gamer soul.


----------



## Teal (Jun 17, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> I have the unlikely hope that MS make 360 ports of some of their games, or fix everything that's wrong about XB1.
> I would like to play KI3 without selling my gamer soul.


 Buy a used system? (Can you buy a used system?)


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 17, 2013)

Teal said:


> Buy a used system? (Can you buy a used system?)


I don't follow.


----------



## Teal (Jun 17, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> I don't follow.


 Buy a used system so that you're not giving $500 to MS. (And then I was wondering if you'd even be able to use a used XBone system).


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 17, 2013)

Teal said:


> Buy a used system so that you're not giving $500 to MS. (And then I was wondering if you'd even be able to use a used XBone system).


Unless they clean up their bullshit, I'll stick with my 360 and PC.


----------



## Teal (Jun 18, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> Unless they clean up their bullshit, I'll stick with my 360 and PC.


 Just an idea if you needed it that badly. (don't need it that badly)


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 18, 2013)

I'm surprised used XOne consoles will even be available. I was under the impression the console will be bonded at the molecular level to its owner, even in death.


----------



## Teal (Jun 18, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> I'm surprised used XOne consoles will even be available. I was under the impression the console will be bonded at the molecular level to its owner, even in death.


 If they're that bound to you think of what would happen if you had children. D:


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 18, 2013)

Teal said:


> If they're that bound to you think of what would happen if you had children. D:



Technically you'll only be renting your children from Microsoft, who reserve the right to revoke them at any time.


----------



## Teal (Jun 18, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Technically you'll only be renting your children from Microsoft, who reserve the right to revoke them at any time.


 This made my night.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jun 18, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


>


Oh wow. This might actually happen


----------



## Teal (Jun 18, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


>


 I hope that happens. >:3


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 18, 2013)

Teal said:


> I hope that happens. >:3


Welcome to the next gen of griefing.


----------



## Teal (Jun 18, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> Welcome to the next gen of griefing.


 Such fun.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 18, 2013)

Teal said:


> Such fun.


I can see it on video game news, "Today the xboxone was released.  On other news all griefers migrate to xboxone."


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 18, 2013)

I'd do it.
Anybody, including myself, that buys this shit deserves it.


----------



## Teal (Jun 18, 2013)

I wonder if it would work on the display consoles in stores...


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 19, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


>



If it could happen during MS's own news release....


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-5...180-rescinds-xbox-one-connection-requirement/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...o-reverse-xbox-one-policies-after-fan-revolt/

So they COMPLETELY turned it around...some of it.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 19, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-5...180-rescinds-xbox-one-connection-requirement/
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...o-reverse-xbox-one-policies-after-fan-revolt/
> 
> So they COMPLETELY turned it around...some of it.



Holy Moses. The Xbox One actually looks like an ok console now. The price is still too much though.


----------



## lilyWhite (Jun 19, 2013)

Today is a great day for people who refuse to let technology advance in a way they dislike. Today is a wonderful day for the morons who have demonstrated that absolute ignorance trumps actual knowledge. Today is a brilliant day for self-centered idiots who believe that they have the right to dictate what people are allowed to do and have.

And for the consumer who doesn't think the same way as the average Xbox One criticâ€”being completely ignorant as to how the system actually works, ignoring the benefits of the system, and eagerly swallowing any spoonfed blatant bullshit from other criticisâ€”then today is the day where they learn the harsh truth: fuck you, stupid whiny trolls are more important than you.


----------



## Teal (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> *Today is a great day for people who refuse to let technology advance in a way they dislike*. Today is a wonderful day for the morons who have demonstrated that absolute ignorance trumps actual knowledge. Today is a brilliant day for self-centered idiots who believe that they have the right to dictate what people are allowed to do and have.


 That was _advancing_ technology? That's news to me.


----------



## Willow (Jun 19, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Holy Moses. The Xbox One actually looks like an ok console now. The price is still too much though.


But it's still cheaper than the PS3 was at launch.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 19, 2013)

Willow said:


> But it's still cheaper than the PS3 was at launch.



Sony were insane to put the price up to $599. Absolutely insane. Microsoft was pretty mental with all the DRM the Xbox One had too, but I'm glad they've removed all that. Maybe I might get it in the future.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> Today is a great day for people who refuse to let technology advance in a way they dislike. Today is a wonderful day for the morons who have demonstrated that absolute ignorance trumps actual knowledge. Today is a brilliant day for self-centered idiots who believe that they have the right to dictate what people are allowed to do and have.
> 
> And for the consumer who doesn't think the same way as the average Xbox One criticâ€”being completely ignorant as to how the system actually works, ignoring the benefits of the system, and eagerly swallowing any spoonfed blatant bullshit from other criticisâ€”then today is the day where they learn the harsh truth: fuck you, stupid whiny trolls are more important than you.


DRM cock up your ass isn't "advancing technology."


And I'm just loling at their backpedaling.
They must have been shitting their pants hardcore to change these policies before the console was even properly released.
Let it be a lesson for them and other companies to follow.


----------



## lupinealchemist (Jun 19, 2013)

MS admitting a mistake!? I guess they might have brains after all.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 19, 2013)

Well shit, I didn't think they'd actually cave in. The smug looks and the proud shit-spewing made me think "Ken Kutaragi on the PS3's launch". The ultimate in arrogance. And yet here we are - I still don't trust them. But this may make the XBOne a purchase now that, ostensibly, they won't be putting a killswitch on your games. Logically speaking, disc based games will probably require the disc in the drive now, but that's not a big deal. Honestly, most if not all of my game purchases in the foreseeable future will be digital.

Some people think this is a bad thing. Most likely they'll disable the family play thing (at the very least for disc-based titles), and some people are thinking that they should have stuck out the DRM because... Fuck if I know. They bought into the cloud computing thing pretty hard. Either way, I'd be fine with their DRM policies IF they were for digital games, but for disc-based games, it makes zero sense.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> Today is a great day for people who refuse to let technology advance in a way they dislike. Today is a wonderful day for the morons who have demonstrated that absolute ignorance trumps actual knowledge. Today is a brilliant day for self-centered idiots who believe that they have the right to dictate what people are allowed to do and have.
> 
> And for the consumer who doesn't think the same way as the average Xbox One criticâ€”being completely ignorant as to how the system actually works, ignoring the benefits of the system, and eagerly swallowing any spoonfed blatant bullshit from other criticisâ€”then today is the day where they learn the harsh truth: fuck you, stupid whiny trolls are more important than you.



Advances? In consumer control, yes maybe.
Actual knowledge? Like the FACT that it had to connect to the internet once per day to enable you to play? The FACT that reselling games was limited severly?
Name one advantage that this whole DRM system had.

None of what they implemented was a benefit for the consumer. It was purely meant to control us. And I am glad it is now gone.

The console is still to expensive though. I am sure the forced kinect is what causes this. And I am not willing to pay for something that I don't want to use.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 19, 2013)

Expert trolling with the "XBOX OFF" thing


----------



## Runefox (Jun 19, 2013)

There were zero advances in technology brought about by their phone home DRM scheme. They should have put all their chips in on digital or done what they're doing now in the first place. Placing restrictions on physical media is horrendously stupid, as were their region restrictions.

About the only actual features this DRM scheme had were the family share plan and the ability to get your games wherever you go so long as you sign in. Which physical media already does. That said, if they implemented this DRM scheme on digital-only releases, then you'd see a lot more people going "Yeah, that makes sense".

See, if they went the all-digital route, they could lower game pricing globally to facilitate the wholesale removal of used / trade-in games. They could offer the family share option, they could offer the "your games go where you go" function, and they wouldn't even need the 24-hour checkin, either. But because they landed in the middle ground, they tried too hard to reconcile the two very different distribution models and failed miserably. Nobody wants to be told what they can and can't do with a physical possession. Nobody wants to have to prove that they aren't a thief by connecting every 24 hours, even if that isn't a problem for them.

The fact of the matter is, Microsoft made the wrong decisions up front. They have the right idea in going digital, and some of the perks of that are pretty great, but the way they wanted to execute it was both foolhardy and greedy, not to mention hamfisted. I'm honestly very surprised they brought themselves to admit that they were wrong.

On that note, maybe they were just trolling us to gain publicity.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 19, 2013)

Runefox said:


> On that note, maybe they were just trolling us to gain publicity.



Given that thier moves produced a mountain of love for sony, I doubt it. None the less, glad to see the changes though. Now if only I could run it without the kinect spying on me or the region locking....

EDIT: I stand corrected, the region locking is gone as well! Which means only the Spynect will remain to bother, which may well be sorted simply enough by unbluggin the damned thing.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> Today is a brilliant day for self-centered idiots who believe that they have the right to dictate what people are allowed to do and have.



There's someone I'd like you to meet...







Because it didn't affect you didn't mean it doesn't affect others in this *global* economy.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

I don't think a post has made me cry harder on this site...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

Couple Questions

Do you still have to download games to the hard drive in order to play?
The Hard drives aren't swappable still?


----------



## lilyWhite (Jun 19, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Name one advantage that this whole DRM system had.



The ability to access your library of content from any other console?

The ability to choose ten friends/family members to share your library with, allowing them access to all of your games and DLC even while _you're_ playing them?

Oh wait, I forgot. XB1-basher brains aren't capable of acknowledging things that would benefit other people but they wouldn't care for.



Arshes Nei said:


> There's someone I'd like you to meet...
> 
> Because it didn't affect you didn't mean it doesn't affect others in this *global* economy.



Yes, because evidently you couldn't *not get an Xbox One if you didn't want one*.Nope, the whiners have to scream and cry until *NO ONE* can have that nice thing just because idiots on the internet don't like it.

If you truly think you're deeply affected by a console you don't have to buy and that it should be changed to your liking, you're a sad, pathetic megalomaniac.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

^Shut the fuck up.



Arshes Nei said:


> Couple Questions
> 
> Do you still have to download games to the hard drive in order to play?
> The Hard drives aren't swappable still?



I highly doubt they'd actually change up the physical hardware. I haven't seen anything on that.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> If you truly think you're deeply affected by a console you don't have to buy and that it should be changed to your liking, you're a sad, pathetic megalomaniac.



I have some cheese, looks like you brought the w(h)ine on bigtime. I've never seen someone so invested in putting others down while claiming people are pathetic over wanting a bit more choice and flexibility. Do you enjoy being a walking irony?

Like wanting to give some friends overseas a console when their country couldn't get one. Or maybe a person going to possibly lose their lives in the military a newer console. I guess those people are pathetic.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> The ability to access your library of content from any other console?
> 
> The ability to choose ten friends/family members to share your library with, allowing them access to all of your games and DLC even while _you're_ playing them?


Neither of those things should require 24 hour check-ins. They sure don't on Steam (well, anywhere access doesn't; Family access doesn't exist on Steam).

If Microsoft truly wanted to move forward, they'd kill the physical copy altogether, because the only reason behind the 24 hour check-in policy was to enable the overly convoluted used games policy. If they really wanted to be more like Steam and move the industry along, they'd have axed the physical copy, reduced the price of new games console-wide, and offered incentives to purchase games on the XBox One such as the family sharing plan and global library access, and, ideally, "Steam sales". Instead, as usual, Microsoft goes just far enough to alienate their existing users, and not far enough to truly innovate. Hence the backlash.

 Exhibit B: Windows Vista. Exhibit C: Windows 8.

For that matter, while the family share feature may be getting the axe (we don't know yet), the anywhere-access to (digital) games should still be a thing. If it isn't, Microsoft is fucking up again.



> Yes, because evidently you couldn't *not get an Xbox One if you didn't want one*.Nope, the whiners have to scream and cry until *NO ONE* can have that nice thing just because idiots on the internet don't like it.


There are so many negatives here I'm not sure how to parse that first sentence. But it's clear that the console is geared towards the USA, which means that most of the world is alienated by their old region restriction policy, including US travelers and service people.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure they'll require the disc to play as a result of this policy change (it's the only other way to allow disc-based games to work on the console beyond their DRM scheme), but they may still require an installation for performance reasons.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 19, 2013)

Haha, I cannot fucking believe this! Now I won't have to travel to the other end of the country just to buy XOne games. But I suppose I'm an entitled, whiny little shit for being happy about that.

Typical, just as I completely remove MS from my digital life they give me a reason to give them another chance.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

I just wish they'd drop the mandatory Kinect utter horsecock of a gimmick and drop the TV obsession. As well as that price. That's what's keeping me from caring. Oh, and those "exclusives" look like crap, the ones they showed actual gameplay of anyway. Outside of Sunset Overdrive and I guess Spark (I think you have to use Smart Glass, and if so, fuck that game too).


----------



## lilyWhite (Jun 19, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Like wanting to give some friends overseas a console when their country couldn't get one. Or maybe a person going to possibly lose their lives in the military a newer console. I guess those people are pathetic.



Newsflash: Microsoft isn't obligated to make a console for any specific group of people. And I love how people constantly say "oh the soldiers won't get to play because they couldn't possibly get a system without an internet requirement instead wah wah wah". You are aware that using the military as an excuse to bitch about a console makes _you_ look sad and shallow, not the company who is under no obligation to make consoles geared for the military?

Oh, I guess we'd better start protesting all of the people who make bullets that soldiers don't use, those goddamn bastards. Or the makers of RC planes. Soldiers can't enjoy RC planes under most conditions, what the hell were they thinking when they came up with those, those immoral RC plane creators?


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## Volkodav (Jun 19, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Haha, I cannot fucking believe this! Now I won't have to travel to the other end of the country just to buy XOne games. But I suppose I'm an entitled, whiny little shit for being happy about that.
> 
> Typical, just as I completely remove MS from my digital life they give me a reason to give them another chance.


I don't know man, Microsoft is in the toilet for me.
I have Windows 7 and wanted to download more "gadgets" for my desktop. They actually REMOVED THEM FROM THE SITE and shoved Windows 8 in my face.
I wanted gadgets, not your dumbass touch-screen operating system.



lilyWhite said:


> Newsflash: Microsoft isn't obligated to make a console for any specific group of people. And I love how people constantly say "oh the soldiers won't get to play because they couldn't possibly get a system without an internet requirement instead wah wah wah". You are aware that using the military as an excuse to bitch about a console makes _you_ look sad and shallow, not the company who is under no obligation to make consoles geared for the military?
> 
> Oh, I guess we'd better start protesting all of the people who make bullets that soldiers don't use, those goddamn bastards. Or the makers of RC planes. Soldiers can't enjoy RC planes under most conditions, what the hell were they thinking when they came up with those, those immoral RC plane creators?



I like how you focus only on the soldier part and don't take any time to realize that not everybody has an internet connection, and if they do, it's not always fast enough or working all the time.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

Using the military as an excuse? I have friends overseas and IN the military people that live in areas where it would have been locked out. FFS I have relatives overseas where it would be a great gift. There's no reason to be a ninny about the whole thing with your hyperbole. I'm shallow because I'd like to give them something they'd enjoy if it wasn't restrictive - when it wasn't necessary to be so in the first place? I wouldn't be making money off this nor would I be purchasing it for myself. It was mainly for people who had a lot more to do without - but guess I'm selfish to give something that I wouldn't spend on myself but as a gift for others.... hmm ok.


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## lilyWhite (Jun 19, 2013)

Clayton said:


> I like how you focus only on the soldier part and don't take any time to realize that not everybody has an internet connection, and if they do, it's not always fast enough or working all the time.



Then I guess developers who create games that can only be played online are scumbags as well.

If you don't have an internet connection, don't get an Xbox One. Simple as that. Do we get all whiny about computer stores that sell mice to people regardless of whether they have a computer?


----------



## Runefox (Jun 19, 2013)

> Newsflash: Microsoft isn't obligated to make a console for any specific group of people.


Yes they are. They're called stockholders.

Moving right along... Wow, really? Someone's feeling a bit butthurt. Clearly Microsoft is taking the steps they believe will be financially beneficial to them. It's the same deal with the original plan. It wasn't just the internet. *Mainstream media* was weighing in on the restrictions of the console. The long and the short of it is, you're not losing all the features you wanted to have over this, and Microsoft should have either done this to begin with or completely cut out the physical media. Plain and simple. They're taking the safer approach after taking such backlash, the approach that they believe will satisfy stockholders.

Anyway, the only major feature you're saying that's been lost that is in flux is the family share feature, which I don't believe they've mentioned. The anywhere-accessible games library? More than likely still there for digital titles. So there's no need to complain about that one.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

Clayton said:


> I like how you focus only on the soldier part and don't take any time to realize that not everybody has an internet connection, and if they do, it's not always fast enough or working all the time.



I like the fact that their jimmies are scattered everywhere. It's like fucking Rita's in this thread. I just need some custard.



Arshes Nei said:


> Using the military as an excuse? I have friends overseas and IN the military people that live in areas where it would have been locked out. FFS I have relatives overseas where it would be a great gift. There's no reason to be a ninny about the whole thing with your hyperbole. I'm shallow because I'd like to give them something they'd enjoy if it wasn't restrictive - when it wasn't necessary to be so in the first place?



You know...you won't convince him/her, whatever the fuck it is to see your point. lol

EDIT:


lilyWhite said:


> Then I guess developers who create games that can only be played online are scumbags as well.
> 
> If you don't have an internet connection, don't get an Xbox One. Simple as that. Do we get all whiny about computer stores that sell mice to people regardless of whether they have a computer?



WHAT THE SHIT IS THIS!? ROFL!


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Yes they are. They're called stockholders.
> 
> Anyway, the only major feature you're saying that's been lost that is in flux is the family share feature, which I don't believe they've mentioned. The anywhere-accessible games library? More than likely still there for digital titles. So there's no need to complain about that one.



Those investors aren't obligated! XD

But I don't see how they would lose the accessible library if it's still an OPTION. But even then Streaming games may not be perfect. Even Sony has been talking about how to make it a solution for many and they recognize not everyone could access this choice. So they were talking about making things OPTIONS until it catches up more with the user base.


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## Fernin (Jun 19, 2013)

Funny thing, the ability to share games so that others can play your game even while you're playing it COULD have still been done, the only reason they really had to gank that feature was a sort of 'take that' as far as I'm concerned. Hell steam let you do basically the same thing with any non mutiplayer game, I play while logged into steam, and my husband, still on my account but in offline mode plays while out and about. So it can, and indeed does work. There was no reason at all for the axe the digital share option, particularly when it comes to games that were downloaded digitally anyways.


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## Runefox (Jun 19, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> WHAT THE SHIT IS THIS!? ROFL!


I missed that one. Seriously, why would anyone want to buy a console that is the replacement of the current gen, which will have all the new games, while the alternative that MSFT and lilyWhite would have you go with is the previous-gen, unsupported platform? I mean, who plays new games, right?


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## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I mean, who plays new games, right?



Genwunners...
They don't.


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## Teal (Jun 19, 2013)

LilyWhite do you work for MS or something?


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## Judge Spear (Jun 19, 2013)

Teal said:


> LilyWhite do you work for MS or something?



My next post was seriously about to be "I smell an undercover MS employee".


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

How would streaming games work though - I mean if you had access to it from any account. Even with stable internet, most companies are not giving you more bandwidth but restricting it. Would someone have to download the 45gb version of Uncharted from a friend's computer to play it? It may not of course be that extreme but the idea of being able to play on anyone's console with your account may not have the ideal Optimizations one is believing



XoPachi said:


> My next post was seriously about to be "I smell an undercover MS employee".



Funny thing about that, I have people who work for MS that even said "shit man, no"


----------



## Teal (Jun 19, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> My next post was seriously about to be "I smell an undercover MS employee".


 Reminds me on the ones' that said "don't have internet? Get the 360"


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## Runefox (Jun 19, 2013)

Teal said:


> Reminds me on the ones' that said "don't have internet? Get the 360"


You mean Don Mattrick, the head of the XBox division?


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## Teal (Jun 19, 2013)

Runefox said:


> You mean Don Mattrick, the head of the XBox division?


 Yes.


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## Seekrit (Jun 19, 2013)

Clayton said:


> I don't know man, Microsoft is in the toilet for me.
> I have Windows 7 and wanted to download more "gadgets" for my desktop. They actually REMOVED THEM FROM THE SITE and shoved Windows 8 in my face.
> I wanted gadgets, not your dumbass touch-screen operating system.



Oh goodness me, I'm only considering it. It would be foolish not to give them a second chance in light of this but I still think Sony gives a better deal, Gmail is just as good as Outlook, and this linux distro I'm using is better than Windows 7/8 (srsly bro, Peppermint OS is lightning fast).

I was more happy for the Xbox fans who were basically shat upon by restrictions. Not every country is like the USA, and those DRM and region restrictions would've fucked over a lot of people.


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## Volkodav (Jun 19, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I like the fact that their jimmies are scattered everywhere. It's like fucking Rita's in this thread. I just need some custard.


I CAN HEAR THE JIMMIES RUSTLING.



lilyWhite said:


> Then I guess developers who create games that can only be played online are scumbags as well.
> 
> If you don't have an internet connection, don't get an Xbox One. Simple as that. Do we get all whiny about computer stores that sell mice to people regardless of whether they have a computer?



No, and y'know what? Those games are usually created for consoles when they get popular enough  Isn't that fucking _amazing_?
Your mouse comparison doesn't work. These are dedicated fans who support Microsoft and Xbox, they can't simply go somewhere else and get an Xbox One that doesn't need internet connection.


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## lilyWhite (Jun 19, 2013)

Teal said:


> LilyWhite do you work for MS or something?



And because you simply cannot accept someone having a different opinion than you, you delude yourself into believing that there must be an ulterior motive for someone thinking differently than you.

The true mark of a delusional narcissist with their head up their ass. I'd ask if you work for Sony, but I'm not a retarded dumbass so self-deluded that an opinion other than my own is a huge fucking unexplainable surprise.

Really, this whole thread has just been a circle-jerk of a bunch of trolls with their heads up their ass. And if you want to continue doing that, go ahead. Because today, the stupid fuckers who believe that they rule Microsoft _do_.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> And because you simply cannot accept someone having a different opinion than you, you delude yourself into believing that there must be an ulterior motive for someone thinking differently than you..



You seem to be the only one having a problem accepting other people's opinions.


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## Volkodav (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> And because you simply cannot accept someone having a different opinion than you, you delude yourself into believing that there must be an ulterior motive for someone thinking differently than you.
> 
> The true mark of a delusional narcissist with their head up their ass. I'd ask if you work for Sony, but I'm not a retarded dumbass so self-deluded that an opinion other than my own is a huge fucking unexplainable surprise.
> 
> Really, this whole thread has just been a circle-jerk of a bunch of trolls with their heads up their ass. And if you want to continue doing that, go ahead. Because today, the stupid fuckers who believe that they rule Microsoft _do_.



Nobody said they believe they rule Microsoft, or even implied it.
All I see is a bunch of people complaining over idiotic moves by Microsoft.


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## Teal (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> And because you simply cannot accept someone having a different opinion than you, you delude yourself into believing that there must be an ulterior motive for someone thinking differently than you.
> 
> The true mark of a delusional narcissist with their head up their ass.


 Nah, I think the only one around her like that is you.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> The true mark of a delusional narcissist with their head up their ass. I'd ask if you work for Sony, but I'm not a retarded dumbass so self-deluded that an opinion other than my own is a huge fucking unexplainable surprise.



Are you mental? I mean for someone who just said people shouldn't get worked up over a console, you're talking a lot of crazy.


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## Runefox (Jun 20, 2013)

So... When people have opinions that are not exactly yours, even if they make attempts to address your concerns, they are mindless trolls.

Yet when you reject *their* opinions, you're the only sane person in the room?

lol.


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## Teal (Jun 20, 2013)

Well I guess someone needed to be the aggressive fanboy to defend the thing. (only one I've seen to tell the truth).


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## Runefox (Jun 20, 2013)

Man, I'm reading Kotaku and people like lily are out in FORCE with exceptionally violent remarks about how people have "taken away" "their" "features" by complaining about Microsoft's business practices. Apparently lots of people were thinking of splitting up the price of games among 10 people despite the fact that it doesn't work that way. Hurp de durp.

It doesn't work that way. Up to 10 people can access your game under the old family share plan? Sweet, but only one (possibly two) can use it at any given time. Whoo! Awesome, now all 10 of my friends can play the new CoD with me! Wait, the opposite of that. It's a great feature for sure, but it's not exactly the big thing that people are making it out to be. Furthermore, what's stopping them from still doing it for digital releases only? The answer of course is *nothing*, but Microsoft is currently butthurt.

If I'm not mistaken, it's been confirmed that digital titles *will* follow you wherever you go, so that's a non-issue.

Not that I expect lily to read that, because I've said it like three times now.


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## thoron (Jun 20, 2013)

Teal said:


> Well I guess someone needed to be the aggressive fanboy to defend the thing. (only one I've seen to tell the truth).



Head over to the GameFAQs XBox One message board and you'll find troves of them. All of them whining over the loss off all the "innovations" that could have reshaped the gaming world. 

The only innovation lost was the family share thing, which could have been done even with the policy change. During the set up which does require an internet connection one could have choose to opt in or out. By opting in you'd have to connect to the internet every 24 hours like the original plan. Opting out means you never have to connect again but lose those features. Then if at some point in the future you want to opt in or out you just reconnect and change the settings. I'm no electronics, programing or computer expert, but in my mind that seems very doable.


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## Seekrit (Jun 20, 2013)

So... now that Microsoft have done a 180, nothing's really changed as far as gaming goes? Same old?


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jun 20, 2013)

these unfucking themselves up are nice, but can we just lose the kinect already? also still more interesting in the ps4 since it's cheaper.


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## Volkodav (Jun 20, 2013)

Sums this shit up well.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 20, 2013)

I don't get why they didn't make it an option. I'm sure people would have warmed up to it - in areas where it wouldn't have affected them and they had the bandwidth to deal with it. And don't tell me "Cloud Servers" would have offset the bandwidth. You still have to download something to view, and even Netflix can kill your bandwidth allotment (to those who have caps).


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## CaptainCool (Jun 20, 2013)

lilyWhite said:


> The ability to access your library of content from any other console?
> 
> The ability to choose ten friends/family members to share your library with, allowing them access to all of your games and DLC even while _you're_ playing them?



You don't need that kind of DRM for a feature like that.



lilyWhite said:


> Newsflash: Microsoft isn't obligated to make a console for any specific group of people.



^





Runefox said:


> Yes they are. They're called stockholders.



As for us being terrible *terrible* trolls just because we don't agree with your retarded little opinion... There is no way at all to reply to that in a nice fashion so I am not even gonna bother.



Alastair Snowpaw said:


> these unfucking themselves up are nice, but can we just lose the kinect already? also still more interesting in the ps4 since it's cheaper.



They know that Kinect sucks. They know that there are no good games that were specifically made for it. I mean, have you seen Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor? That mech game in which control a battle mech from the cockpit and you actually have to pull all the switches yourself as if you are really piloting it? Yeah, needless to say it doesn't work at all. It's virtually unplayable.
Or Dragonball Kinect? Holy shit that game sucks...

So what are they gonna do with a failed peripheral they invested a shitload of money into? They force it onto us. They try to sell it as a little helper that makes it more convenient to control the system.
In itself that is not a bad idea. It's just too bad that no one wants it.
If I had designed the new Xbox I would just have put the microphone directly into the console. That way you can still yell "XBECKS TURN ON!!!" at your TV without having to pay extra for a glorified HD webcam.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 20, 2013)

Only game I could tolerate was Sanic Free Riders. But all three Sonic Riders games were below average, the original being the only on that worked reasonably enough (Wii title was SHIT). And it's sad, had Free Riders have been traditionally controlled, it would have been a really good game. As a Riders title and just as a game in general. I wish you could hack the Kinect to allow controller use.


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## Fernin (Jun 20, 2013)

@CaptainCool 

Never, ever, ever, mention SB: Heavy Armor again. Ever. As a long time Steel Battalion fan and among those few who got to enjoy Line of Contact at it's height, just mentioning Heavy Armor makes me die a little inside. ;_;


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## CaptainCool (Jun 20, 2013)

Fernin said:


> @CaptainCool
> 
> Never, ever, ever, mention SB: Heavy Armor again. Ever. As a long time Steel Battalion fan and among those few who got to enjoy Line of Contact at it's height, just mentioning Heavy Armor makes me die a little inside. ;_;



Oh yes, I also know how it feels to see a franchise die like that. I used to be a huge Call of Duty fan. We played the SHIT out of the very first Call of Duty at LAN parties! It really hurt to watch it turn into a Michael Bay movie...


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## BRN (Jun 20, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Oh yes, I also know how it feels to see a franchise die like that. I used to be a huge Call of Duty fan. We played the SHIT out of the very first Call of Duty at LAN parties! It really hurt to watch it turn into a Michael Bay movie...




This post made me a little sad. :c
I played a _lot_ of Call of Duty 2.5: Big Red One.


It was a time of drama, high tension, and when a single death of your comerades was shocking. Who can forget the cheeky humour of Seargent Bloomfield? Subtlety was better than what we have now.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 20, 2013)

SIX said:


> This post made me a little sad. :c
> I played a _lot_ of Call of Duty 2.5: Big Red One.
> 
> 
> It was a time of drama, high tension, and when a single death of your comerades was shocking. Who can forget the cheeky humour of Seargent Bloomfield? Subtlety was better than what we have now.



The first Modern Warfare actually wasn't that bad. I just saw it as it's own thing. You know, like a silly spinoff to get some fresh ideas into the franchise.
What I hate is what the community of players turned it to. It's not a mature franchise anymore (and I am not talking about violence here) that handles serious events in a serious fashion. Now it is geared towards kids (despite it's M rating) who want to see stuff blow up and it's about having as many shocking moments as possible...
Remember the nuke from the first MW game? That was good. It was sudden, unexpected and dramatic.
But then came scenes like the one in Modern Warfare 2 in which you had to shoot civilians at the airport... That scene was just there to be shocking. It didn't serve any purpose for them beyond that.
I wouldn't say Call of Duty died. It has just grown up to be a total douchebag who hangs around with the cool kids and doesn't want to look at you anymore.


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## Fernin (Jun 20, 2013)

The fate of Steel Battalion is a bit more complicated than the horrible game that was rebranded as an SB, it starts with Inaba's shitty attitude toward the game and community once it was out. Heavy Armor was just taking a glimmer of hope and shitting all over it for the giggles.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 20, 2013)

^The utter truth.


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## CaptainCool (Jun 20, 2013)

Remember Sim City? They claimed that the game was centered around the always on connectivity, that the game uses an EA server for vital aspects for it to run and that removing the DRM would take months to entirely rework the game.

To deaktivate the DRM yourself you literally have to remove 2 lines from a settings file.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jun 20, 2013)

Come on, hit the switch - You son of a bitch
I'm devoured, broke in two
You take control and resurrect my soul
Becoming something new...

What's done is done. I'm dead inside.
I'm what you've all become, mindless and mesmerized
Symphony X- Dehumanized

Faith restored in Xone. But not in MS.
They can just flip the switch again.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jun 20, 2013)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> They can just flip the switch again.



Got a feeling they will through "patches" and "updates".


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## thoron (Jun 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Got a feeling they will through "patches" and "updates".



Only if its connected to the internet. Gamers like me who would keep it off line  wouldn't have to worry. Also it would be bad for the PR department if they did do such a thing. It would brand MS as being completely untrust worthy.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 20, 2013)

thoron said:


> Only if its connected to the internet. Gamers like me who would keep it off line  wouldn't have to worry. Also it would be bad for the PR department if they did do such a thing. It would brand MS as being completely untrust worthy.



In order for you to use your console you have to register online. ...after that it's ok to be offline.


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## thoron (Jun 20, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> In order for you to use your console you have to register online. ...after that it's ok to be offline.



I know, I meant after that assuming it never touches the internet again its more or less immune to MS's meddling except for the updates that come on the disc.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 20, 2013)

I bet certain exclusives or just games in general will require updating on the system before being able to play. That's what usually happens when I get a new game on the 360. :/


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## benignBiotic (Jun 21, 2013)

[video=youtube;1huTJtw56FM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1huTJtw56FM[/video]

Done goofed


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## Seekrit (Jun 21, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> Done goofed



And just like that I'm off to watch MMPR.

fuck you thank you


----------



## Stratelier (Jun 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I bet certain exclusives or just games in general will require updating on the system before being able to play. That's what usually happens when I get a new game on the 360. :/



How is that a surprise?  I know it's hard to believe but sometimes games actually do, y'know, rely on certain developer features added in system updates, which is why they tend to get bundled onto the disc.


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## deanlaing123 (Jun 21, 2013)

I am against "Long-Term Loan" purchasing. I no longer support Xbox. Xbox and Steam will destroy the second hand market. (Along with the trend of, "You cannot play this unless you are online" which is "Apparently" growing.)

I will not be buying a PS4 either.

Will just have to put up with the low low costs that steam provides. ;-)


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## Judge Spear (Jun 23, 2013)

^lol

He thinks Steam is bad for gaming. XD


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## CaptainCool (Jun 23, 2013)

deanlaing123 said:


> I am against "Long-Term Loan" purchasing. I no longer support Xbox. Xbox and Steam will destroy the second hand market. (Along with the trend of, "You cannot play this unless you are online" which is "Apparently" growing.)
> 
> I will not be buying a PS4 either.
> 
> Will just have to put up with the low low costs that steam provides. ;-)



The second hand market for PC games has always been wonky.
First of all, you can play almost all PC games without the CD/DVD. Some need modification for that, others don't. However, you can always just rent a game or borrow it from a friend, install it and then play it forever even after returning it.
Then there is the fact that almost all PC games get very cheap very quickly. I remember buying Unreal Tournament 3 at release for 50 bucks but two months later it was already at 30. Today you can get it for 9. Compare that to successful console games that didn't get a price drop. Nintendo games almost never get cheaper and even second hand they cost a lot.
Steam didn't destroy the second hand PC market because there was no second hand market there to begin with. For PC gamers Steam is a great plattform. It is popular for a reason.

As for Microsoft's original plans with the Xbox One: Yes, that would have ruined the used games market for Xbox games. No doubt about that.


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## Fernin (Jun 23, 2013)

The second hand PC market was dead long before steam came around. All did was needlessly complicate my original Half Life 2 install and make me HATE my slow ass internet. Now a days Steam makes it easy to compile an enormous library of all random ass kinds of game both big dev and indie and generally makes keeping them organised and up to date quite easy. Between Steam and GOG (and yes, origin, I gots to have mah BF) I've got all my gaming needs pretty much met.


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## Seekrit (Jun 23, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> The second hand market for PC games has always been wonky.
> First of all, you can play almost all PC games without the CD/DVD. Some need modification for that, others don't. However, you can always just rent a game or borrow it from a friend, install it and then play it forever even after returning it.
> Then there is the fact that almost all PC games get very cheap very quickly. I remember buying Unreal Tournament 3 at release for 50 bucks but two months later it was already at 30. Today you can get it for 9. Compare that to successful console games that didn't get a price drop. Nintendo games almost never get cheaper and even second hand they cost a lot.
> Steam didn't destroy the second hand PC market because there was no second hand market there to begin with. For PC gamers Steam is a great plattform. It is popular for a reason.



Nintendo are ridiculous for this. Looking in a shop a week ago, Mario 64 DS (a DS launch title) was still a ridiculous Â£30. That's like a million euros.

I didn't even know there was a used games market for PC :/


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jun 23, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> I didn't even know there was a used games market for PC :/



Because steam and online-registered CD keys becoming the norm now.

But nobody gives a toss because Steam is pretty excellent as it is.

I bought the 2010 Quakecon pack

27 games

Including fallout, doom, and elder scrolls games and many others

for like 50 quid

*50 quid*

I could buy Call of Duty 70 plus half a map pack for that price.


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## Seekrit (Jun 23, 2013)

Gibby said:


> *50 quid*
> 
> I could buy Call of Duty 70 plus half a map pack for that price.



FFFFFF- sometimes I wonder how consoles are still a thing.

But don't diss the innovative and fairly-priced CoD franchise. Fish AI! :v


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 23, 2013)

LOL designed a Super Slim XBox - to make you accidentally buy it instead of the XboxOne 
...and not so slim. 

I mean even the PS3 super slim is actually that way even if the price is just as disappointing as the other versions 

[yt]9bUKfsqZGEU[/yt]


----------



## Falaffel (Jun 23, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> LOL designed a Super Slim XBox - to make you accidentally buy it instead of the XboxOne
> ...and not so slim.


What exactly is the point of this?
I dun get it :I


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 23, 2013)

Crap, I better get off my ass and sell that 360 slim before people catch wind of this >O>


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 23, 2013)

I don't like the Xbox 360 Super Slim. It's the same size as the normal Xbox 360 Slim so it can hardly be called "super" slim, and on top of that it's gone from that nicely angular design to a box. Just a box.


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## Fernin (Jun 24, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> I don't like the Xbox 360 Super Slim. It's the same size as the normal Xbox 360 Slim so it can hardly be called "super" slim, and on top of that it's gone from that nicely angular design to a box. Just a box.



All I want is a box, that stupid concave design is one of the most annoying things about the 360 in the first place.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

Xbox is still pretty bulky though. I wonder if the new power adapters are going to match the XboxOne.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Xbox is still pretty bulky though. I wonder if the new power adapters are going to match the XboxOne.



the PSU will probably be about the same size, and once again exterior of the system itself.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

Fernin said:


> the PSU will probably be about the same size, and once again exterior of the system itself.



Yeah see they changed the power adapter so I figured that there's no reason to come out with a new version of the slim unless they are making it so the parts are semi swappable with the Xbox One, due to no backwards compatibility. If so, then this new version makes sense.


----------



## Seekrit (Jun 24, 2013)

The could've just made the XOne backwards compatible, but whatever.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> The could've just made the XOne backwards compatible, but whatever.



Hardware/adapter wise? Probably, unless the newer are better at regulating wattage. I know the PS3 slim and super slim still use the same 2 prong power cable and PSU is on the inside of the unit.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 24, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> The could've just made the XOne backwards compatible, but whatever.



A software engineer dies a little inside every time someone makes one of these comments.

No. They couldn't have. At least not in any manner that would have been worth it. Besides, who needs crappy emulation when you've already got the other console in the first place.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

Fernin said:


> A software engineer dies a little inside every time someone makes one of these comments.
> 
> No. They couldn't have. At least not in any manner that would have been worth it. Besides, who needs crappy emulation when you've already got the other console in the first place.



I think though people are conscious about their space in the living room or other area they keep an Xbox. I wouldn't like keeping around another piece of hardware to clutter up the room. IE Keeping 2 laptops around because one still plays nice with XP. - which actually is a problem for some cases. There were some old abandonware for Painter that has 32bit plug ins that are no longer being used for a 64 bit system. 

I think people feel the same with consoles.


----------



## Fernin (Jun 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think though people are conscious about their space in the living room or other area they keep an Xbox. I wouldn't like keeping around another piece of hardware to clutter up the room. IE Keeping 2 laptops around because one still plays nice with XP. - which actually is a problem for some cases. There were some old abandonware for Painter that has 32bit plug ins that are no longer being used for a 64 bit system.
> 
> I think people feel the same with consoles.



While I don't think the laptop analogy is a very good one, I get the idea. I however differ on it in that my entertainment center contains just about every gaming console made (admittedly I lack any Atari prior the jaguar), all hooked up, and all ready for easy access on a moments whim for whatever game myself or my guests might like the play. To each their own I suppose on the matter of space. However it doesn't change the fact getting uppity over something that isn't practical is, well dumb.


----------



## Runefox (Jun 24, 2013)

Fernin said:


> No. They couldn't have. At least not in any manner that would have been worth it. Besides, who needs crappy emulation when you've already got the other console in the first place.


They could have created a compatibility layer rather easily (I say easily, mostly because they know exactly how the previous console and current console tick), much the same way ARM-based Windows RT devices can be made to run x86 code, Intel-based Macs could run PowerPC code (up to Tiger), PowerPC-based Macs could run 68k code, and *the XBox 360 (PowerPC) could run XBox (x86) code*. The API's are all the same (based on DirectX), the only explanation is laziness. Hell, they could even _sell_ it to early adopters who want it instead of hooking yet another device up to their TV / home theatre system. But nope, guess you'll have to buy the XBox 360 along with the XBox One if you want to play 360 games, or if your old 360 breaks down (which it will).

Microsoft seems to be smitten with the concept that your content dies with your console. They've come out and said during their "we're sorry" release that your games won't be switched off now that the DRM has been killed, but prior to that, at the EOL of the XBox One, the servers that would have given you your 24 hour check-in would logically also be taken down, effectively shutting off all content for the platform and forcing repurchases like they are with 360 / Live Arcade content with the XBox One now.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 25, 2013)

Does anyone happen to know if the Xbox One is going to be sold at a loss this time? (How much does it cost to produce)


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 30, 2013)

You can control roaches with a Kinect. 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...rch-and-rescue-cockroaches-piloted-by-kinect/


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jun 30, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You can control roaches with a Kinect.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...rch-and-rescue-cockroaches-piloted-by-kinect/



So the Kinect _is _​useful for something. That's actually really cool.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 1, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> So the Kinect _is _â€‹useful for something. That's actually really cool.



I've seen a video of the Kinect being used to operate shopping carts which could potentially aid certain disabled if we actually had something like that. The tech is great stuff. I've never found it to be a dumb technological endeavor. I just think it's bad as a console gimmick and should be put to other uses.


----------



## thoron (Jul 1, 2013)

Too back Kinect 2.0 will only work with technology thats sanctioned by MS, as in you can not hack it, modify it, or use it for anything besides the XBox One.


----------



## BRN (Jul 1, 2013)

thoron said:


> Too back Kinect 2.0 will only work with technology thats sanctioned by MS, as in you can not hack it, modify it, or use it for anything besides the XBox One.



this frustrates me more than it should

in fact I'm genuinely angry


fuck me what the hell did you do


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jul 1, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I've seen a video of the Kinect being used to operate shopping carts which could potentially aid certain disabled if we actually had something like that. The tech is great stuff. I've never found it to be a dumb technological endeavor. I just think it's bad as a console gimmick and should be put to other uses.



Oh no, I've never thought the technology itself was useless either. Just that it's primary use (i.e. the Xbox 360) was stupid.

You know, I wonder if NASA would ever use it for some sort of planetary rover.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 1, 2013)

thoron said:


> Too back Kinect 2.0 will only work with technology thats sanctioned by MS, as in you can not hack it, modify it, or use it for anything besides the XBox One.



HA! Please. Nothing on this planet cannot be hacked. It's man made. It's flawed.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 1, 2013)

thoron said:


> Too back Kinect 2.0 will only work with technology thats sanctioned by MS, as in you can not hack it, modify it, or use it for anything besides the XBox One.



No, actually there will be 2 versions of Kinect. The one that comes with Xbox, will only work with it - but there's a PC version of Kinect - but the developer version will cost you $400

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-kinect-for-xbox-one-will-not-work-on-pcs/


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## Runefox (Jul 6, 2013)

Sigh... And we were so close to avoiding a train wreck, Microsoft decided to send another train down the same track - Kinect is going to be used to profile users and target ads.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 6, 2013)

two steps forward one step back


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## Furry Anarchy (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't know whether anyone has said this yet but the Xbox one no longer requires a constant internet connection and you can play used games. But they got rid of the DRM which means no family sharing on games or any system like steam. I've heard a lot of people saying you have to buy the kinect with it but it's included in the price of the whole thing. The xbox one also comes with a build in capture card so in my opinion it's worth the Â£429 you spend for it. Also i don't know whether this is true or not but i seen and heard from a few people say that Sony watched Xbox's console reveal and seen how many people liked the DRM which wasn't many. PS4 was apparently going to have a DRM but because of what happened with the Xbox one they decided to remove it. When i find all the sites i got this info at i will post them here.

Personally i think the Xbox one is better but at the end of the day all the new consoles will be successful.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jul 6, 2013)

Furry Anarchy said:


> I don't know whether anyone has said this yet but the Xbox one no longer requires a constant internet connection and you can play used games. But they got rid of the DRM which means no family sharing on games or any system like steam. I've heard a lot of people saying you have to buy the kinect with it but it's included in the price of the whole thing. The xbox one also comes with a build in capture card so in my opinion it's worth the Â£429 you spend for it. Also i don't know whether this is true or not but i seen and heard from a few people say that Sony watched Xbox's console reveal and seen how many people liked the DRM which wasn't many. PS4 was apparently going to have a DRM but because of what happened with the Xbox one they decided to remove it. When i find all the sites i got this info at i will post them here.
> 
> Personally i think the Xbox one is better but at the end of the day all the new consoles will be successful.



I think everybody here already knew all that.


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## Furry Anarchy (Jul 6, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> I think everybody here already knew all that.


Don't i feel stupid


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 6, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Sigh... And we were so close to avoiding a train wreck, Microsoft decided to send another train down the same track - Kinect is going to be used to profile users and target ads.



If their service was free (Xbox Live account) it wouldn't be as much of a nuisance since I can see how ads keep up the service. It is annoying to have ads while you paid for a $500 dollar system (maybe they're doing it to offset loss from hardware?) in addition to the subscription. I guess they want the Kinect to at least give you relevant ads, instead of selling you Tampons if you're a dude or something.


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## Teal (Jul 6, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Sigh... And we were so close to avoiding a train wreck, Microsoft decided to send another train down the same track - Kinect is going to be used to profile users and target ads.


 "Hello Dave, based on previously viewed content may I interest you in Backdoor Sluts 9?"


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## Judge Spear (Jul 6, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> two steps forward one step back



And STILL in the negatives.


----------



## Runefox (Jul 6, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> If their service was free (Xbox Live account) it wouldn't be as much of a nuisance since I can see how ads keep up the service. It is annoying to have ads while you paid for a $500 dollar system (maybe they're doing it to offset loss from hardware?) in addition to the subscription. I guess they want the Kinect to at least give you relevant ads, instead of selling you Tampons if you're a dude or something.


Yeah, I guess that's the silver lining here. The problem that I see though is that Microsoft has up to now been promising (or at least leading us to believe) that the XBox One would be ad-free, which clearly isn't the case here. So we have a compounded broken promise and privacy issue, unless this is going to be for a subsidized XBox One.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2013)

You know... I WANT to praise Microsoft, but I doubt that this would be enforced to it's fullest potential. Though I can at least give them credit to at least recognize this far greater than mere stating it in the TOS.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/417545/xbox-one-employs-advanced-troll-detection/


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jul 8, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You know... I WANT to praise Microsoft, but I doubt that this would be enforced to it's fullest potential. Though I can at least give them credit to at least recognize this far greater than mere stating it in the TOS.
> http://www.computerandvideogames.com/417545/xbox-one-employs-advanced-troll-detection/



"Advanced troll detection" makes me chuckle for some reason.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 8, 2013)

Is it similar to that IM plugin that senses a disturbance in the force?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Is it similar to that IM plugin that senses a disturbance in the force?



I am not as smart as you. I don't know what you are referencing. :<


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## Runefox (Jul 8, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I am not as smart as you. I don't know what you are referencing. :<


It's a plugin for Pidgin (I think in the Pidgin plugin pack) that pops open an IM window when a contact starts typing before you have a window up for them. You get a message "You sense a disturbance in the force..." and it gives you the ability to basically pre-empt them and freak them out.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 9, 2013)

Another rumor.
https://xboxuncut.squarespace.com/m...sed-gpu-clock-and-an-increase-to-12-gb-of-ram


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 9, 2013)

So I wonder if they'll be selling at a loss again. I haven't heard if Xbox is actually making a profit on their hardware? I think Sony finally did but that's cuz the super slim was made more cheaply. Which actually isn't bad, I've seen one and they're pretty light, and they work better vertically. Not as noisy as some people were making them out to be (room fans are louder in a hot July)


----------



## Runefox (Jul 9, 2013)

Huh. Well, if they do decide to bump it up to 12GB of RAM, that would offset the dashboard's RAM usage. It wouldn't be noticed right away, but later in the console's life, it may allow devs to more easily squeeze that extra performance out of the box over 8GB (better texture streaming / higher resolution textures, better draw distance, more in-world objects, etc). Plus, RAM (at least, DDR3) is dirt cheap.

But that wouldn't be for quite some time; We're talking 3-5 years, if not longer. Do remember that current-gen titles are stuffed into less than 512MB of total memory on the console scene (PS3 = 256MB system, 256MB GPU; X360 = 512MB dynamically shared; Both have the OS taking up some RAM at all times), and most PC games aren't yet taking advantage of more than 2-3GB of RAM (in fact, I can't think of one that does).

A higher GPU clock wouldn't help very much at all, though, unless it's significantly higher. With GPUs, number of compute / shader units and memory bandwidth are the biggest concerns. If I were Microsoft, I'd keep it as it is and let the unit continue to run cooler than expected; Unless, of course, they had downclocked the GPU to begin with.


----------



## Fernin (Jul 9, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Huh. Well, if they do decide to bump it up to 12GB of RAM, that would offset the dashboard's RAM usage. It wouldn't be noticed right away, but later in the console's life, it may allow devs to more easily squeeze that extra performance out of the box over 8GB (better texture streaming / higher resolution textures, better draw distance, more in-world objects, etc). Plus, RAM (at least, DDR3) is dirt cheap.
> 
> But that wouldn't be for quite some time; We're talking 3-5 years, if not longer. Do remember that current-gen titles are stuffed into less than 512MB of total memory on the console scene (PS3 = 256MB system, 256MB GPU; X360 = 512MB dynamically shared; Both have the OS taking up some RAM at all times), and most PC games aren't yet taking advantage of more than 2-3GB of RAM (in fact, I can't think of one that does).
> 
> A higher GPU clock wouldn't help very much at all, though, unless it's significantly higher. With GPUs, number of compute / shader units and memory bandwidth are the biggest concerns. If I were Microsoft, I'd keep it as it is and let the unit continue to run cooler than expected; Unless, of course, they had downclocked the GPU to begin with.



I disagree on the last bit there, not in regards to the memory bandwidth issue (which should be a nonissue as they're only putting out to 1920x1080); a 10-20% increase in the clock speed can give just enough frames to push something over the 60fps mark and keep it there. A think a bit of heat in exchange for smoother gameplay is a fair trade.


----------



## Runefox (Jul 9, 2013)

Fernin said:


> I disagree on the last bit there, not in regards to the memory bandwidth issue (which should be a nonissue as they're only putting out to 1920x1080); a 10-20% increase in the clock speed can give just enough frames to push something over the 60fps mark and keep it there. A think a bit of heat in exchange for smoother gameplay is a fair trade.



Usually you're looking at a 5fps difference at most; The GTX 680 and GTX 680 Classified (which has a 10% higher clock) gains around 2 - 5 fps. I guess you could say that means the difference between 55 and 60, but I wonder how much of a difference it makes to a dev to have to optimize for a loss of 5fps. In the PC world, gaining 5fps when you're near 60 isn't all that hard unless you've already turned everything off. The biggest gains and losses come out of memory bandwidth and compute units (and on the software side, features that impact these). Though at 1080p, I agree that doesn't matter much - Until you throw anti-aliasing and complex full-screen shaders into the mix.

That said, a higher clock also means higher voltage and a greater load on the system's power supply. Unless that's also something that they found was reduced versus the expectation, and unless they know the chip can take it safely without any modification, it could also mean a higher failure rate. Factory overclocked graphics cards for PC's often tend to have extra power phases and better PCB's.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 9, 2013)

What?

_*WHAAAAAT!!??!?!?!!?!


*_


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 10, 2013)

pretty sure that's sony fanboys who want the xbox one to go back to dieing.


----------



## Runefox (Jul 10, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> What?



See... Yeah. These things would be nice. Great. I want these things, too. But in order for them to do that, they need to take discs out of the equation and slash prices for new games. $49 maximum. Instead, they planned to fuck customers twice over by locking down what they can and can't do with their content AND making them pay what they pay now for it, in spite of lower costs and mitigated used games sales / piracy.

Frankly, I think the whole thing was a setup to see just where we'd draw the line.

The fact that people wholesale want it back without any compromise is scary.

Either way, if you want the console of the future, you'll get a PC, mirite? MASTER RACE.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2013)

I like the "I want to play XBox One anywhere I go" well it helps if people are actually buying the unit. It may have very well been less about the outrage, but more about the sales. Sony was selling out and outnumbering Xbox Pre-orders. Given that the sales model is you can access your games on other consoles, but if people aren't buying the unit or it's less access to the consoles the plan isn't going to work. 

Even if you bought a PS4 with a camera it would still be a bit cheaper than the Xbox Kinect - not by much but it still would be. 

The game has to download to the console, would this also be the case for a friend who actually has the console? Not everyone plays the same games. So even if you could access your Live account on any XBox, your friend may not appreciate you downloading a large game to play on their console. The drives are not like the PS3 where you can just swap in a laptop drive. See if they had that flexibility, I don't think this would have been a problem as much. 

You could say "well the cloud" wouldn't that also require publisher participation? The publisher would have have to either pay in or host content on this could. I'm quite sure MS could have made some money off charging publishers for content hosting to make games faster, publishers would charge people to play on the servers (either through the price of games or if they have to - more fees for servers).

[yt]G_xHueP7bQ0[/yt]


----------



## Fernin (Jul 10, 2013)

Runefox said:


> -Snipped for space-



Good points, though I was more thinking about the difference in low FPS gains than high. Pushing up from 55 to 60 fps isn't that big of a gain sure, but it's not so much peak FPS as it is minimum fps (in my opinion) that decides how playable a game is, and in my experience a gain in thew top end of 5-10% is usually worth 15-20% on the bottom end. If the improvement in power is enough to bring up minimum FPS from say, 25 to thirty plus, and smooth out negative spikes in the frame rate I still think it's worth it. 

As for the power issue, once again you have a point (Unless you're on a GK110 card, then you're getting what Nvidia gives you regardless of stock or OCed clock. XD), but I'd figure they'd be smart enough to keep the equipment up to spec. The dev kits seem reliable and I'm sure they get much more abuse than any console in a home would. Not to mention they'd want to avoid the danger of having the failware reputation again like they did for a while thanks to the red ring on 360.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2013)

Well somewhat related but not surprising. EA is gonna hike up their game prices for PS4 and XboxOne

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ea-ups-prices-on-its-ps4-and-xbox-one-games-1164958

Also PS4 will let you play any digital game you own from other consoles - so yeah similar to the Xbox One no DRM, and they're doing a "predownload" so that you can start playing part of the game without fully downloading it and waiting...What isn't clear is if that's ALL games or similar to Live (Xbox 360) already doing - but additional pre-loading games. 

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/10/4511374/ps4-access-game-library-from-any-console


----------



## Fernin (Jul 10, 2013)

Stay classy EA.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 10, 2013)

Runefox said:


> See... Yeah. These things would be nice. Great. I want these things, too. But in order for them to do that, they need to take discs out of the equation and slash prices for new games. $49 maximum. Instead, they planned to fuck customers twice over by locking down what they can and can't do with their content AND making them pay what they pay now for it, in spite of lower costs and mitigated used games sales / piracy.
> 
> Frankly, I think the whole thing was a setup to see just where we'd draw the line.
> 
> ...



The idea of taking out the discs from the equation is good and will happen in like 10 years or so, but xbox one was forcing it on way too early.


----------



## Stratelier (Jul 11, 2013)

Disc-less gaming has its advantages.  I rather like having a few download titles on my Wii and 3DS that you can simply start up and shut down at a moment's notice.  Almost like the old PC days.


----------



## Shadow_Fox (Jul 11, 2013)

As a PC/Nintendo fan I don't know what's going on... But I did find this:

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-is-removing-xbox-one-drm-514390310

(Feel free to flame me if this is old.)


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 11, 2013)

Come on guys, *there's 700+ posts in this thread*. I know it's "Feel free to flame me if this is old" but sheesh kinda obvious that it's probably been talked to death considering the article was last month and there's a few posts above even talking about people petitioning to put back the DRM.


----------



## Shadow_Fox (Jul 11, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Come on guys, *there's 700+ posts in this thread*. I know it's "Feel free to flame me if this is old" but sheesh kinda obvious that it's probably been talked to death considering the article was last month and there's a few posts above even talking about people petitioning to put back the DRM.



OK then.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 11, 2013)

They're reorganizing http://www.examiner.com/article/mic...box-one-xbox-36-devices-group-with-new-leader

Julie Larson-Green steps up to the plate?


----------



## Runefox (Jul 12, 2013)

It's not just XBox that's reorganizing - The whole damn company is reorganizing. It seems like Microsoft is trying to operate as a cohesive unit again for the first time since the monopoly suit. From what I've read, there's been infighting between the Office, Windows, Live/SkyDrive, XBox, and pretty much any other division you can think of. This will be "interesting"...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 12, 2013)

Meanwhile the Spin Doctors regrouped to tell you that you should use Xbox One for your business - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57593277-75/microsoft-to-businesses-invest-in-the-xbox-one/


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 16, 2013)

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...inect-costs-almost-as-much-as-primary-console
What the fuck?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...inect-costs-almost-as-much-as-primary-console
> What the fuck?



I'm not surprised. I don't think I've seen a report where Xbox360 is making profit on their console. The only profit I've seen is the controller which costs about 12 to make. Even Sony took a hit with the PS3 for a long time hoping software licenses and deals would make up the loss. I think the Super Slim they're finally selling at a profit. It also may help that at least some of the hardware like the hard drive isn't so proprietary.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 16, 2013)

I knew it would be expensive, but not to that degree. It makes you wonder what the fuck is in that little thing.


----------



## Runefox (Jul 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I knew it would be expensive, but not to that degree. It makes you wonder what the fuck is in that little thing.


I highly doubt it actually costs more than $100 to make. Microphones and webcams, plus a (probably ARM) processor. It might have cost as much to DEVELOP (especially since the rest of the XB1 hardware is A) largely the same console as the PS4 and B) more or less a PC, thus probably not actually costing much to design), but I highly doubt it costs as much to produce.

I have to compare Kinect to Leap Motion. It's smaller and designed for a smaller range (1 meter), but its resolution is insanely accurate by comparison, particularly considering the cost of the thing.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 18, 2013)

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/419374/forza-5-unplayable-without-day-one-download/

:I

:I

:I


----------



## Runefox (Jul 18, 2013)

Yeah. This looks like it's one of the things about the pre-DRM takeback that devs were looking forward to at launch; The ability to really finish the game at the eleventh hour and not bother playtesting everything pre-production because hey, people have to be online to play, which means they can force-download patches and updates.



			
				Don Mattrick said:
			
		

> Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called XBox 360.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 18, 2013)

And you know what? We've got people damage controlling this with some utter horsecock excuses of "Oh well...you should be used to this by now!" and "Oh, it's free and shouldn't take long so be grateful they're taking time to fix your game."

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

For starters, I shouldn't be used to day one patches for any reason unless I'm late getting into an MMO. This goes DOUBLE for consoles. This laziness of developers rushing to get a product out on the market is getting tedious, and old. There is no excuse where a consumer should ever be inconvenienced for a second unless it is completely out of your control like a hacker attacking your server. If you can identify a fault on your company's behalf and you can make an excuse, then you need to get your ass in gear and fix it.

I was playing Kirby Air Ride a little bit ago. When I see the Hal Laboratories screen, it only takes me 7 seconds to actually get into playing my game.
I don't have to wait for excessive load times. I don't have to wait for the goddamn credentials before I see "Press Start", and most importantly, I don't have to wait for fucking patches and updates doing god knows fuck all for 10 minutes. I put in the disc. Go to my disc channel. Hit start and I'm almost instantly playing my game. This past generation axed that simple convenience with the above horse shit and it will continue to the next as this article has proven. I'm fucking tired of it. Paying for half completed products at full price and developers not giving a shit about it.

My other issue is simply this and I cannot believe it's not obvious to some. What kinda game is Forza 5? Racer? Next gen? XBox exclusive? Sure. Know what else it is? 

*A LAUNCH TITLE.*​
So right out of the fucking gate, an exclusive, a game on ONE system cannot be completed in time for an already damned console's release? Are you shitting me? And people are defending this? People ACCEPT this? The ones who do complain are being petty?

And no. I'm not gonna single out Microsoft because the PS3 is the worst with this and the fucking LOL U had a day one CONSOLE update that took an hour. An hour before you could play your $350 console.

And then people wonder why pirates exist.
[/rant]

EDIT: Ooooooooooooooooooooooh dear.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 24, 2013)

Pardon the double post, but I'm bumping this thread because of some very huge and actual GOOD news about this console.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-every-xbox-one-can-be-used-to-make-games-up-898750954

Seriously, that's fucking cool.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jul 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Pardon the double post, but I'm bumping this thread because of some very huge and actual GOOD news about this console.
> 
> http://kotaku.com/microsoft-every-xbox-one-can-be-used-to-make-games-up-898750954
> 
> Seriously, that's fucking cool.



Holy shit. The XBone actually has something positive about it.

PRAISE THE GODS.


That is really, really good though. Extremely good news for indie developers.


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## Zeitzbach (Jul 24, 2013)

I wish it costs 720$. Don't care if it doesn't sell at all but at least for one day, do it. Microsoft pls.

"Sir, how much is this Xbox"

"It Cos 720"


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Jul 24, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> I wish it costs 720$. Don't care if it doesn't sell at all but at least for one day, do it. Microsoft pls.
> 
> "Sir, how much is this Xbox"
> 
> "It Cos 720"



It won't ever happen, though. It makes no sense from a business standpoint because sales would plummet for the day, maybe for even longer.


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## Zeitzbach (Jul 24, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> It won't ever happen, though. It makes no sense from a business standpoint because sales would plummet for the day, maybe for even longer.



Slap an Apple and Blizzard icon on it and it will be valid until Sue.


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## Saga (Jul 25, 2013)

>xbox one release day
>go to walmart
>walk right past xbox one
>get the xbox 360 (that black one) for cheap
>go home happy
>replace piece of shit white xbox I've had for years


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> It won't ever happen, though. It makes no sense from a business standpoint because sales would plummet for the day, maybe for even longer.



Wouldn't even be relevant as a joke. It's not called the 720. I don't even think MS called it that at any point. It was just fans who made it a running theme because of the 360's name. :I


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## Zeitzbach (Jul 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Wouldn't even be relevant as a joke. It's not called the 720. I don't even think MS called it that at any point. It was just fans who made it a running theme because of the 360's name. :I



True. Its official name is Xbone.


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## Runefox (Jul 25, 2013)

Hey, looks like MSFT did another reversal: Indie devs will now be allowed to self-publish once more. Looks like the significant loss of slime at the management level is lending itself to a more friendly atmosphere. Related to the "every XBOne is a devkit" post above.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 29, 2013)

The Sessler speaks. O-O

Nothing new, but just to share some talk from a more seasoned and credible voice if anyone's interested.

[video=youtube;uG8zcMRUOHI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8zcMRUOHI[/video]


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## Runefox (Aug 8, 2013)

Hooray! Looks like Microsoft will require Gold to use the Game DVR feature. Gold will also be required to use Skype, the OneGuide (TV guide), and Internet Explorer.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 8, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Hooray! Looks like Microsoft will require Gold to use the Game DVR feature. Gold will also be required to use Skype, the OneGuide (TV guide), and Internet Explorer.



... yeah, I was going to get a PS4 anyway, but this is just another reason not to get an Xbox One.

That's not to say that the Xbox One is a bad console, just you'll be rather limited in what you can do unless you get an Xbox Live Gold account.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 8, 2013)

Just when good news comes out, more bad news comes. MS what the fuck? I'm not surprised actually. I really am trying to have hope for this console, but damn.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 8, 2013)

An entertainment device that wants to revolutionize by double dipping into entertainment items you already own. Ok, guess I'll use my smartphone for Skype and use my PC for web browsing. Little more convenient considering consoles aren't great at web browsing to begin with.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 9, 2013)

Internet Channel.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 9, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Internet Channel.



That was free though. Even the people who bought it when it cost 500 points got a refund.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 9, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> That was free though. Even the people who bought it when it cost 500 points got a refund.



Free for a time. lol

They started charging I think 500 points for that. Yes MONEY for a gimped console Internet application. I believe it went back to be free, but only when the Wii started to become irrelevant.

I don't think consoles will ever get a good Internet browser. Not that they NEED any. I have two personal computers and iPhone for that.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 9, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Free for a time. lol
> 
> They started charging I think 500 points for that. Yes MONEY for a gimped console Internet application. I believe it went back to be free, but only when the Wii started to become irrelevant.
> 
> I don't think consoles will ever get a good Internet browser. Not that they NEED any. I have two personal computers and iPhone for that.



I've heard the Wii U's internet browser is pretty good - the touch screen probably helps a lot - but on every other console I've tried the browser was just horrible. 

That's why I think all the Internet Explorer/Skype snapping stuff whilst watching a movie on the Xbox One is stupid because you've already got your laptop/iPod/computer for doing that stuff whilst watching a film. It sounds good, and it's got the good sort of gimmicky vibe to it, but when you _really _think about it it's pretty pointless.


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## Stratelier (Aug 9, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> but on every other console I've tried the browser was just horrible.


I run my PS3 on a composite hookup (480i), PS3 internet browser _can't even load its own homepage_ because the TV resolution's too small and the PS3 browser no does zoom.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 9, 2013)

Wii I can forgive in the case of charging a 1 time fee for the Browser app. I wouldn't even care if Xbox did a 1 time nominal fee. it's the monthly charge that gets me. Then there's the double dip with Netflix. I'm already paying for netflix, I don't need MS charging on top of it to use the damn thing.


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## thoron (Aug 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Then there's the double dip with Netflix. I'm already paying for netflix, I don't need MS charging on top of it to use the damn thing.



"But its only 60$ a year which is 5$ a month" or "Your paying for XBL to play online already so why does it matter?" 

Those tend to be the justifications I see floating around by those who have no issue with all the features being behind a paywall. Basically MS thinks everyone with an XBone will have an Gold account anyway since clearly their online games are just that awesome. Since you'll already be paying for a Gold account for online game play it shouldn't make a difference anyway. Thats MS's logic anyway.


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## Runefox (Aug 12, 2013)

And now it seems Kinect is no longer required for the console to function! The news about the XB1 keeps getting better and better.

I think I called it when I said this whole thing was a marketing coup.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Aug 12, 2013)

that's good, but won't the xbone still come with it and it still costs mroe than a ps4


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## Judge Spear (Aug 12, 2013)

I'd rather not have one, just because it would bring the price down significantly, but this is still basically exactly what I asked for. :3


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## Fernin (Aug 12, 2013)

Not terribly surprised they backed out of all that crap. It was a smart move. Bringing back the sharing plan is nothing but a bonus at this point. So every effective reason to not get an XB1 is gone now, save franchise preferences of course.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 13, 2013)

Fernin said:


> Not terribly surprised they backed out of all that crap. It was a smart move. Bringing back the sharing plan is nothing but a bonus at this point. So every effective reason to not get an XB1 is gone now, save franchise preferences of course.



Except paying more for a device you don't need.


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## Fernin (Aug 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Except paying more for a device you don't need.



$100 isn't that much. Plus the usability for head tracking in Forza, and the high res skype chat is something I'll end up making a great deal of use of. Admitadly though I do agree they should offer a version without the kinect, but again, 100 isn't alot of extra money.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 13, 2013)

Fernin said:


> $100 isn't that much.
> ...
> 100 isn't alot of extra money.


Speak for yourself. $100 is a goddamned _*lot* _of expendable money, to some of us.


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## Runefox (Aug 13, 2013)

Fernin said:


> $100 isn't that much. Plus the usability for head tracking in Forza, and the high res skype chat is something I'll end up making a great deal of use of. Admitadly though I do agree they should offer a version without the kinect, but again, 100 isn't alot of extra money.



$100 is 1/4 the asking price of the console. Objectively speaking, that is a lot of extra money.


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## Fernin (Aug 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> $100 is 1/4 the asking price of the console. Objectively speaking, that is a lot of extra money.



1/5th actually, the console is $500 dollars.

And to be frank if $100 is alot of money for someone's situation, then they should be spending what little money they have to spare on important things. I've been there, both jobless and working jobs with shit pay. You need to prioritize and if $100 is alot of money for you, then spending it on video games is stupid.


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## Runefox (Aug 13, 2013)

Fernin said:


> 1/5th actually, the console is $500 dollars.


Wow, I forgot. Kind of a shock hearing it again.



> And to be frank if $100 is alot of money for someone's situation, then they should be spending what little money they have to spare on important things. I've been there, both jobless and working jobs with shit pay. You need to prioritize and if $100 is alot of money for you, then spending it on video games is stupid.


$500 is, compared to $400. People tend to buy Android tablets specifically because they're $100 less than an iPad, and the same is true of Android phones. It isn't that $100 is breaking the bank, it's that it's a lot more to pay for something that does exactly the same thing as the product that's $100 less.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Aug 13, 2013)

100 dollars can still be a lot without being poor. the thing is those 100 dollars could be spent on essentially 2 games.
so if i get a ps4 i could get 1 full priced game and one on sale game before i have to pay as much as the XB1. and those 2 games can give a whole lot of replay value. also spending 100 for the kinect which is something i would never use is a complete waste.
the ps4 does the same stuff and with the 100 left over you would have room for some games.
now that i think about it some more i'm going to hold off on getting a console since i don't really have too much of a use for one till some games come out i want.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 13, 2013)

Guess I need welfare because $100 isn't lunch money to me. Damn. :/


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## Fernin (Aug 14, 2013)

It's not lunch money to me either, but neither is it a huge amount. Perhaps years of living with furries who spent all their money on video games instead of paying their share of the bills has made me a bit jaded, but the way I see it unless an expenditure can be made with no effective consequence to responsibilities or things that are needed it's too expensive to buy. It's like my computer or gun stuff, sure I COULD blow $600 dollars on another 780 or AR15 upper, but I have more important things to spend the money on. So then way I see it, if 100$ is too big of a margin for comfort, then your expenses are probably too tight to be wasting the money on videogames in the first place. If nothing else save up for a bit until it can fit your budget better.


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## Runefox (Aug 14, 2013)

In other words, if you're looking at buying a Volkswagen because it's less expensive than a BMW, you shouldn't be buying a car, and if you can't justify the price of first class, you shouldn't be flying on a plane, and if you can't justify the price of Blu-ray, you shouldn't be watching movies.


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## Fernin (Aug 14, 2013)

Runefox said:


> In other words, if you're looking at buying a Volkswagen because it's less expensive than a BMW, you shouldn't be buying a car, and if you can't justify the price of first class, you shouldn't be flying on a plane, and if you can't justify the price of Blu-ray, you shouldn't be watching movies.



You know if you lit that straw man on fire you could signal the ISS. Your comparison isn't even of relevant scale to the discussion, and is surprisingly poorly thought out coming from someone I've always taken as one of the more intelligent folks here.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm not paying $100 bucks for something I don't need/use, you go blow your damn money and justify shit like that. I'm not an idiot. I guess gamers like to be with that logic though.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 14, 2013)

Fernin said:


> You know if you lit that straw man on fire you could signal the ISS. Your comparison isn't even of relevant scale to the discussion, and is surprisingly poorly thought out coming from someone I've always taken as one of the more intelligent folks here.



>Already poor logic gets shut the fuck down. 
>Strawmanning.

lul
That word shouldn't be used on this forum anymore. Every time it's used, it's when someone's stance is easily, completely demolished and the "argument" should have ended.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 25, 2013)

Well Steve Ballmer retires http://www.ibtimes.com/steve-ballmer-retires-what-does-mean-xbox-one-1397453


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## DarrylWolf (Aug 25, 2013)

Perhaps Microsoft manufactured all this nonsense about consumer-unfriendly features to make people hate them, then repealed them as they had every intent to do so, just so we would be fooled into thinking that they were actually caring towards customers. It's a gambler's bluff but I'm calling them on it.

Anyway, I heard recently they wanted to call "Halo 5" "Halo Xbox One" instead. So if Microsoft wants to put a number at the end of the titles of games and that number matches the number at the end of their console, then does that mean the Xbox One wants to use the same approach as this console?


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## Stratelier (Aug 25, 2013)

In TV Tropes lingo I believe they call it the "Super Ultra Title 64" effect.


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## DarrylWolf (Aug 25, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> In TV Tropes lingo I believe they call it the "Super Ultra Title 64" effect.



But if Microsoft really wants to do that, then they sure will cause a lot of confusion plus the N64 had games which were, for their time, more fun and had better gameplay than anything Microsoft has ever come up with. Sure, the graphics show their age because of fifteen years of graphical advancement between the two consoles, but "Ocarina of Time" is better than "Halo 5" will be.


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## Fernin (Aug 27, 2013)

DarrylWolf said:


> But if Microsoft really wants to do that, then they sure will cause a lot of confusion plus the N64 had games which were, for their time, more fun and had better gameplay than anything Microsoft has ever come up with. Sure, the graphics show their age because of fifteen years of graphical advancement between the two consoles, but "Ocarina of Time" is better than "Halo 5" will be.



OoT is one of the ONLY good games the 64 ever actually had. As for how good it was compared to todays games, I'd say decent for sure, but I think your opinion could do with a recent playthrough to get rid of the rose glasses effect. You'll find it's sadly not quite a great as you remember. Then again such is generally the case with all old games.


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## Migoto Da (Aug 27, 2013)

Fernin said:


> OoT is one of the ONLY good games the 64 ever actually had. As for how good it was compared to todays games, I'd say decent for sure, but I think your opinion could do with a recent playthrough to get rid of the rose glasses effect.* You'll find it's sadly not quite a great as you remember. Then again such is generally the case with all old games*.


Goldeneye comes to mind.


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## Fernin (Aug 27, 2013)

Migoto Da said:


> Goldeneye comes to mind.



Hence the "One of" part of my comment. 

To wit, the only great N64 games I can think of.

Ocarina of Time
Golden Eye
Star Wars: Rouge Squadron
Perfect Dark
Turok 2
Starfox 64
Donkey Kong 64

And.....That's about it. And no, I didn't 'forget' Mario 64, I've personally always felt the games camera was an abomination that rendered the game largely unplayable.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 27, 2013)

To be honest one of the major reasons I avoided the N64 was that while it's not so much "the graphics aren't great" a lot of times they looked like friggen nightmare fuel because they quite didn't get it right a lot of the time. Even the major titles creeped me out quite a bit.

Also technical talk on the Xbox One chip http://venturebeat.com/2013/08/26/m...se-details-are-critical-for-the-kind-of-expe/


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 29, 2013)

Seems we no longer need to keep the Kinect on all the time.


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## Runefox (Sep 29, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Seems we no longer need to keep the Kinect on all the time.



VERY old news, already posted about.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> VERY old news, already posted about.



I didn't notice the date on the link.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 29, 2013)

Though what IS the latest news on this box? It's been rather quiet in XBoxburgh...


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Though what IS the latest news on this box? It's been rather quiet in XBoxburgh...



umm this? http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/29/us-microsoft-sony-poll-idUSBRE98S08C20130929

And this odd one http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-says-transge-1421596988

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/xbox-fitness-brings-celebrity-trainers-to-the-xbox-one/


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## zachhart12 (Sep 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> umm this? http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/29/us-microsoft-sony-poll-idUSBRE98S08C20130929
> 
> And this odd one http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-says-transge-1421596988
> 
> http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/xbox-fitness-brings-celebrity-trainers-to-the-xbox-one/



Lol Kinect workout.  I used the Kinect for about 10 times...I think?, then went back to playing call of shitty and battlefield.  But the Xbox One presenter humiliating a transgender journalist is definitely something I have not heard about yet.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> And this odd one http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-presenter-humiliated-me-on-stage-says-transge-1421596988



Yikes, that's the second gender issue MS has had (granted I still find the first to be blown out of proportion, the KI incident).


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Yikes, that's the second gender issue MS has had (granted I still find the first to be blown out of proportion, the KI incident).



Can't be as bad as Nintendo blocking that charity Smash Bros. Meelee event.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 29, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Can't be as bad as Nintendo blocking that charity Smash Bros. Meelee event.



Considering that Nintendo reversed their decision in an hour? Yes, I'd say dehumanizing a transgendered person in front of thousands is way worse.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Considering that Nintendo reversed their decision in an hour? Yes, I'd say dehumanizing a transgendered person in front of thousands is way worse.



Touche.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 10, 2013)

Dead Rising 3 is not gonna be released in Germany... The USK refused to rate it.


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## Runefox (Oct 10, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Dead Rising 3 is not gonna be released in Germany... The USK refused to rate it.



This news is surprising in the same way it's surprising that the sun continues to rise every day.

Damn thing needs to take a day off.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 10, 2013)

Runefox said:


> This news is surprising in the same way it's surprising that the sun continues to rise every day.
> 
> Damn thing needs to take a day off.



It's true. Did you hear about what they did to Dead Space 2? A politician from Bavaria actually demanded that they rate the game again because he didn't want it to be released here. That delayed the launch of the game a couple of weeks.

Not that any of this matters though because you can easily import games from other countries in Europe  I import all my games from England for example. There they are completely uncut, about 30% cheaper compared to the prices in Germany and when I order them from shops like Simply Games shipping costs are small and the game is usually here within 48 hours.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 21, 2013)

Well since it's launching tomorrow, wanted to post some reviews for the Xbox One.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...e-console-less-than-a-living-room-revolution/

One noticeable point of interest is that you can't lay the Xbox One on its side. Facial recognition is very hit and miss. The unit does run quieter but it looks like a workstation vs an entertainment living room device. 

Also here is Joystiq's review - http://www.joystiq.com/2013/11/20/review-xbox-one/

Gizmodo reports it's great ...when it works - http://gizmodo.com/xbox-one-review-absolutely-amazing-when-it-works-1467466379

Yup still paywall to use apps that you pretty much already purchased.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

So in other words...

*PASS*.

Forza 5 got good scores. Surprisingly for an unfinished game.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 21, 2013)

I know people who liked the 360 will probably plunk down for it, but MS also said this was an entertainment device. It's downright stupid to extract 60 extra bucks for the year + price of console, when you can buy a Roku, Apple TV for a 100 and just live without the facial recognition and voice commands.


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## Runefox (Nov 21, 2013)

I agree with Total Biscuit's assessment: It is a media centre with a relatively strong game lineup at first but is likely to lose out on the game front as the PS4 hits its stride. It's more of a competitor to devices like the AppleTV and Smart TV's than to the PS4 or even WiiU. It will be extremely convenient as a content browser and media streamer, essentially an all in one living room box. And really? That's exactly what Microsoft has been going for ever since the first Xbox. Can't really call that a failure, at least unless something better rolls around for multimedia.


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## Fernin (Nov 21, 2013)

Forza 5 is excellent, and that's all I care about. Now for some info on Fanatec wheel support...


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Sometimes, I swear he's overacting. 
Fernin, I assume you've purchased a unit since you play Forza 5. Was it heavier than a PS3?

[video=youtube;YNHwW79GfWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNHwW79GfWI[/video]


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## Stratelier (Nov 21, 2013)

You know what this reminds me of for some weird reason?

When I purchased my PS3 (a Super Slim model, the Infamous bundle I think) it had a composite A/V cable but no HDMI cable for all this HD stuff everyone talks about.  (Not that I run it on an HDTV, either.)

The Wii U, on the other hand, came with an HDMI cable in the box but no composite (fortunately not an issue since it uses the same cable as the regular Wii).


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## Runefox (Nov 21, 2013)

Why would anyone use composite cables anymore? Surely you could use component if you absolutely had to? Hell, hook it up to a monitor via HDMI if you have to. SDTV sucks.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

So far only one reported hardware failure. Not comparing to PS4 necessarily, but I'm certain over the next week the next "red ring" will be a hot button issue because of the calamity that it was over the 360.

http://www.examiner.com/article/first-reported-xbox-one-failure-documented



Runefox said:


> Why would anyone use composite cables anymore? Surely you could use component if you absolutely had to? Hell, hook it up to a monitor via HDMI if you have to. SDTV sucks.



Runefox, *YOU'RE* a composite cable.


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## TransformerRobot (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So far only one reported hardware failure. Not comparing to PS4 necessarily, but I'm certain over the next week the next "red ring" will be a hot button issue because of the calamity that it was over the 360.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/article/first-reported-xbox-one-failure-documented



Well, at least it's only 1.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

And it was probably a shipping issue, user error, or just factory defect. If we start seeing more reports, then it'll be news. 

But this brings up a point. You're right, it is _only_ 1 unit that failed...and it made a news headline. Just goes to show where our expectations of current hardware is and rightfully so. We expect this now more than ever and keep a close eye on it even reporting single incidents. I know naturally, there will be tech issues, but just read that headline.

*First XBox One Hardware Failure Documented*

Like it's time to tally up a quota.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And it was probably a shipping issue, user error, or just factory defect. If we start seeing more reports, then it'll be news.
> 
> But this brings up a point. You're right, it is _only_ 1 unit that failed...and it made a news headline. Just goes to show where our expectations of current hardware is and rightfully so. We expect this now more than ever and keep a close eye on it even reporting single incidents. I know naturally, there will be tech issues, but just read that headline.
> 
> ...



Seems cynical, yeah.

Well, less than 10 hours until the Xbox One is unleashed.


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## Willow (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And it was probably a shipping issue, user error, or just factory defect. If we start seeing more reports, then it'll be news.
> 
> But this brings up a point. You're right, it is _only_ 1 unit that failed...and it made a news headline. Just goes to show where our expectations of current hardware is and rightfully so. We expect this now more than ever and keep a close eye on it even reporting single incidents. I know naturally, there will be tech issues, but just read that headline.
> 
> ...


Honestly I'd be more surprised if a system launched without having some major defect. 

Nintendo is exempt though :u


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Willow said:


> Honestly I'd be more surprised if a system launched without having some major defect.
> 
> Nintendo is exempt though :u



Nintendo's always held a standard in robust long lasting build quality (about the ONLY quality they still have). The day that slips from under their feet, is the day gaming as a whole is done. Stuff like 2DS doesn't count since that's intentionally made to cut costs.

I don't know what the FUCK happened with PS4 and 360.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Nintendo's always held a standard in robust long lasting build quality (about the ONLY quality they still have). The day that slips from under their feet, is the day gaming as a whole is done. Stuff like 2DS doesn't count since that's intentionally made to cut costs.
> 
> I don;t what the FUCK happened with PS4 and 360.


360 had  high failure rate. PS4 is under a bit of FUD.

Basically remember 1million units sold. If 1000 ppl report defects it is still pretty low. That isn't to dismiss issues. It is just that BROKEN PS4 catches more attention than "low percentage out of a million complaining about defects"


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## Stratelier (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm not entirely familiar with the acronym FUD, but I can definitely guess what the first two letters are....



Willow said:


> Nintendo is exempt though :u


Yup, if it can't survive a direct hit from an M16 it doesn't pass inspection.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 22, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> I'm not entirely familiar with the acronym FUD, but I can definitely guess what the first two letters are....



Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 22, 2013)

There are reports of bad disc drives, but one thing I noticed even in the reviews was that there was crashing using the Xbox Menu. I believe the hardware issues like the PS4 are small in number but more attention getting. Irritating are the troll reviews on Amazon since I haven't seen any from verified purchases that have the problem. From what it looks like some were from Gamestop. If they're more from Gamestop than Amazon maybe Amazon put some policies in place to not repeat the issues with the PS4 damage from shipping.

One of the possible solutions for the BLOD for PS4 was that the hard drives are not properly seated/damaged which may have happened during transit, and most people have stated they can actually get into safe mode when they pull the drive out completely

Either way I do expect a small amount of failure. Even with the Wii U - and Wii  U had a lot of software issues with load times and other menu glitches. In the end what matters is how well the companies steps up and fixes the defective units for the consumers who purchase them.

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/xbox_one_support/f/4269/t/1625602.aspx?PageIndex=1


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## TransformerRobot (Nov 22, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Nintendo's always held a standard in robust long lasting build quality (about the ONLY quality they still have). The day that slips from under their feet, is the day gaming as a whole is done. Stuff like 2DS doesn't count since that's intentionally made to cut costs.
> 
> I don't know what the FUCK happened with PS4 and 360.



I know! Just look at Morgan Webb's durability test for the original Xbox, PS2 and GameCube.


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## Stratelier (Nov 22, 2013)

That wasn't exactly a scientific test (though the XBox original was still the first one to conk out) . . . .


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## Judge Spear (Nov 22, 2013)

I think it's because Nintendo uses relatively compact designs.


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## Fernin (Nov 22, 2013)

@XoPachi: I don't know yet, I had to cancel my pre-order to cover my husband's trip to MFF. I'm going to have to wait till the 6th to pick one up.


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## Runefox (Nov 22, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> That wasn't exactly a scientific test (though *the XBox original was still the first one to conk out*) . . . .


I always found that really odd, given how fragile first-model PS2's were and the original Xbox's reputation for being a tank.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 22, 2013)

Microsoft hasn't had a good track record for hardware and electronics.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 22, 2013)

Or software...


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## TransformerRobot (Nov 22, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Or software...



Or for how they've handled classic franchises in gaming:


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## Judge Spear (Nov 22, 2013)

Perfect Dark. QnQ

ONE game...and they ruin the next one. But the software I was talking about would be stuff like Windows Vista and 8 before the update.


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## Toshabi (Nov 22, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Perfect Dark. QnQ
> 
> ONE game...and they ruin the next one. But the software I was talking about would be stuff like Windows Vista and 8 before the update.



Perfect Dark didn't have a sequel. Nope. It was just a single N64 game that was incredible. Nope. Didn't have a shitty sequel. What is this xbox 1 thing you're talking about? Nope! Didn't exist!


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## TransformerRobot (Nov 22, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Perfect Dark. QnQ
> 
> ONE game...and they ruin the next one. But the software I was talking about would be stuff like Windows Vista and 8 before the update.



I never really liked Windows anyway. -_-


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## Judge Spear (Nov 23, 2013)

Windows OS can be great. WinXP <3
It's just that there's a trend. Good OS, bad OS. Good OS, bad OS.


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## Ranguvar (Nov 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Or software...


Gonna have disagree with that champ, the first Xbox easily had the best library last gen. If I didn't have a pc to game on, I chose the 360 and the first Xbox hands down.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 23, 2013)

More verified purchases from Amazon are reporting issues with slowness of the OS, crashing, bad disc drives. 

Again it looks like just a small number but people who have broken units have more outlets to complain through reviews and other forms of social media.

Also XboxOne also did as much PS4 in sales but the difference is - XBox One sold in 13 markets where Sony sold in less. So it would be interesting to see a financial breakdown of where the units are selling/how much.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

Ok, this is one of the things that really irritate me with the Xbox. Sure there was the earlier fiasco with the game plan, but I figured they were using some proprietary drive for storage.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/21/5129880/xbox-one-ifixit-teardown-reveals-consoles-inside

No it's just a fucking notebook drive. YET they won't allow you to replace the drive without voiding the warranty. Come On!!!! Since both consoles have to play off the hard drive, a user who wants more space can simply go through the process of replacing the drive on their PS4. Yet if a person who wanted to do it on their Xbox are kinda told to fuck off. That's ridiculous.


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## Runefox (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> No it's just a fucking notebook drive. YET they won't allow you to replace the drive without voiding the warranty. Come On!!!! Since both consoles have to play off the hard drive, a user who wants more space can simply go through the process of replacing the drive on their PS4. Yet if a person who wanted to do it on their Xbox are kinda told to fuck off. That's ridiculous.


But Arshes! If you open the case, you could break your XBox! Why do you need a bigger hard drive, anyway? Just delete your old games!

In all seriousness, USB 3.0 means that an external drive can do the job, but it would have been nice if they included a drive bay like the PS3 did, or hell, even had an easy-replace drive module like the 360.


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## Ranguvar (Nov 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> But Arshes! If you open the case, you could break your XBox! Why do you need a bigger hard drive, anyway? Just delete your old games!
> 
> In all seriousness, USB 3.0 means that an external drive can do the job, but it would have been nice if they included a drive bay like the PS3 did, or hell, even had an easy-replace drive module like the 360.


Why have storage space, when I can stream my games from *THE CLOUD*!


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

Ranguvar said:


> Why have storage space, when I can stream my games from *THE CLOUD*!



Yeah! Who gives a fuck about bandwidth!


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## Runefox (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yeah! Who gives a fuck about bandwidth!


Well, I don't. But I'm a minority in North America land, it seems... My ISP is sadly unique in its lack of bandwidth caps even on its higher speed service (175mbps).


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Well, I don't. But I'm a minority in North America land, it seems... My ISP is sadly unique in its lack of bandwidth caps even on its higher speed service (175mbps).



The US has them, but I know Europe is worse and that's one of Xbox One's markets.


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## Runefox (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The US has them, but I know Europe is worse and that's one of Xbox One's markets.


Oh, Canada has them, too. Pretty badly. I use a regional ISP that doesn't, but it's actually owned by Bell, which does. So my luck may eventually run out. Typical caps here are around 100GB or less, unless you're paying over $100 per month, and for much slower speeds. Though, Bell does have a $10/month add-on for unlimited bandwidth.

Personally, while I was with Rogers on a cap of 150GB, I would double that. Living in an apartment with two other guys who stream and download like crazy will do that to you. And the bill was accordingly massive.


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## Ranguvar (Nov 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Well, I don't. But I'm a minority in North America land, it seems... My ISP is sadly unique in its lack of bandwidth caps even on its higher speed service (*175mbps*).


I wish I could get something that fast. Paying $80 a month for 6mps and it's fucking capped.


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## Runefox (Nov 24, 2013)

Ranguvar said:


> I wish I could get something that fast. Paying $80 a month for 6mps and it's fucking capped.


Jesus... Well for full blown HDTV+PVR, landline phone and 175/30 unmetered internet, I'm paying something like $175 and that's split three ways.


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## Ranguvar (Nov 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Jesus... Well for full blown HDTV+PVR, landline phone and 175/30 unmetered internet, I'm paying something like $175 and that's split three ways.


C spire save me, pls


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 25, 2013)

Guess this is a bit of a whoops since Europe still runs PAL - http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/25/xbo...-experiencing-difficulty-in-uk-europe-report/


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## Runefox (Nov 25, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Guess this is a bit of a whoops since Europe still runs PAL - http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/25/xbo...-experiencing-difficulty-in-uk-europe-report/


Wow, this is such a basic mistake, it's almost funny. I mean yeah, most PAL TV's nowadays do 60Hz no problem, but forgetting that broadcast TV is still 50Hz is just dumb. Maybe they figured refresh rate changes would be too jarring, but hell, why not just run the console at 50Hz and be done with it? It's not like the consoles of yesteryear where the refresh rate was tied to game timing.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 25, 2013)

I thought I  mentioned this before but both PS4 and Xbox One have stated they do not allow external drives. So if you want more room on Xbox, void your warranty and put in a bigger hard drive


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## TransformerRobot (Dec 4, 2013)

Could Xbox One really beat the PS4 in 5 years?


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 4, 2013)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...x-one-players-suggest-missing-system-features

There's a really interesting list of complaints about the XboxOne

Kinect listening in and broadcasting private conversations, and more noise added to the game due to kinect, no option to switch to headset when in chat so you don't have to be ghetto about broadcasting your conversation in the room.

No overall hard drive management. Basically you can't see on a general basis how much space you have on your hard drive. You can only see how much space each app/individual game takes up.

You also can't see how much battery life is left in your controller.

One of the mouthpieces for Xbox saw the list of complaints compiled by Reddit and has passed it on to the relevant people.

Also MS is oddly tight lipped in providing actual sales numbers of the console.


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## CaptainCool (Dec 4, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Could Xbox One really beat the PS4 in 5 years?



Considering how well they started? Could be. It now depends on how well they are being supported with software.
Heck, they launched so well they eliminated the Wii U's 1 year headstart in less than two weeks!

The launch of the XBone is especially impressive. It launched almost as successfully as the PS4 despite the massive PR disaster and despite it's much higher pricetag.
In other words, people bought the XBone for the games and the PS4 because it's cheaper. Also brand loyalty and so on and so forth.
If there is one company that could learn from both of them it would be Nintendo... Because you can't buy a Wii U for the games (because there are almost no good ones) and for what it does it's overpriced.



Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...x-one-players-suggest-missing-system-features
> 
> There's a really interesting list of complaints about the XboxOne
> 
> ...



If seen alone those issues aren't really anything big. But all together that is pretty bad.
All in all it seems like both new systems still need to have a few things ironed out^^ But that is to be expected and that is also why it is not a good idea to buy new systems at launch anymore. Whether it's a game or a console, the companies behind them seem to force a lot of playtesting on the consumer these days. It's like every new product is just a beta that needs patches...


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## Runefox (Dec 4, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Could Xbox One really beat the PS4 in 5 years?


I doubt it. Not as a game platform anyway. Considering the Xbox One is more geared as a media centre device, though, it may sell more actual units if the prices level off.


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## TransformerRobot (Dec 5, 2013)

God dammit, still no playable Xbox One demos in my area.


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## Judge Spear (Dec 5, 2013)

We don't even have a playable unit. I haven't seen a console with an actual demo since Donkey Kong Country Returns. Oh there are consoles, but they're never on. I remember in the Gamecube era when they always had demos. Gamestops were pretty big in that time.


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## TransformerRobot (Dec 5, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> We don't even have a playable unit. I haven't seen a console with an actual demo since Donkey Kong Country Returns. Oh there are consoles, but they're never on. I remember in the Gamecube era when they always had demos. Gamestops were pretty big in that time.



I long for that era so much.


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## Runefox (Dec 5, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> God dammit, still no playable Xbox One demos in my area.



None here, either. All the displays are dummy consoles in a box, with a TV running videos off a thumb drive. PS3 demos everywhere though!


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## Runefox (Dec 7, 2013)

Karloz said:


> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...m_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=news
> 
> Watch out for an image that instructs you how to apparently unlock backwards compatibly. It actually bricks the system.


What kind of moron would actually try this?


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 7, 2013)

Runefox said:


> What kind of moron would actually try this?



Many kinds. A moron isn't just one flavor of stupid.


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## Runefox (Dec 7, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Many kinds. A moron isn't just one flavor of stupid.


 It's frankly amazing how many flavours of stupid would completely ignore so many red flags as to go through with that.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 7, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Guess this is a bit of a whoops since Europe still runs PAL - http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/25/xbo...-experiencing-difficulty-in-uk-europe-report/



Is this only for analog output?  I'd have thought that with HDTVs over HDMI, they'd happily take 50hz or 60hz rather agnostically.  All I'm in Canada but of my displays identify 50hz as a compatible refresh rate over EDID. o.o


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## Runefox (Dec 7, 2013)

AshleyAshes said:


> Is this only for analog output?  I'd have thought that with HDTVs over HDMI, they'd happily take 50hz or 60hz rather agnostically.  All I'm in Canada but of my displays identify 50hz as a compatible refresh rate over EDID. o.o


 It works like this:


Xbox One outputs to TV at 60Hz. PAL HDTV's do this no problem. 
Set top box (and all PAl broadcast programming) outputs at 50Hz, Xbox One accepts this input. 
60 / 50 = 1.2 
Judder very similar to 2:3 pulldown


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## Stratelier (Dec 7, 2013)

Runefox said:


> It works like this:
> 
> 
> Xbox One outputs to TV at 60Hz. PAL HDTV's do this no problem.
> ...



Worse, actually, because only 1 of 6 frames are actually sent straight to the box, the other 5 get interpolated.  No matter what your algorithm, it's going to be noticeable.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 7, 2013)

This is apparently the work around to the PAL issue - http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/game...ox-one-tv-integration-picture-judder-problems


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## TransformerRobot (Dec 7, 2013)

Karloz said:


> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...m_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=news
> 
> Watch out for an image that instructs you how to apparently unlock backwards compatibly. It actually bricks the system.



Also, the recent eBay scam.


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## Runefox (Dec 7, 2013)

Karloz said:


> There was a thread on a different forum where a couple of people actually tried it and raged so hard they ended up posting CP and gore.
> The thread lasted for several hours until it was deleted.



I grossly overestimate the intelligence of the internet.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 7, 2013)

I'm going to agree that with the Kinect it's off to a rough due to cost and not much potential at launch (since they rushed it out for the holidays) http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...e-losing-the-console-war-due-to-kinect-alone/ I wouldn't say it's a loser per say since the sales are even better than the last generation. 

I'd be a little less "hostile" to the system if not for the early screw ups ...but more so that both the PS4 and Xbox one now really run games off the hard drive, but PS4 leaves a more flexible option for hard drives than the Xbox One.

But the Kinect may be like a Wii U tablet in a sense, something that feels unnecessary to many consumers and doesn't work to its full potential.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 9, 2013)

Out of curiosity, does Sony have a similar rule for indie publishers?

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...multiplatform-project-to-release-on-xbox-one/


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## TransformerRobot (Dec 9, 2013)

Any word on Halo 5?


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