# Twitter: Disregard forums; post new things



## LizardKing (Feb 3, 2012)

*HEY YOU: IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THE ACTUAL TWEETS THEMSELVES, THEN MAKE A NEW THREAD*

This thread is just about the use of the Twitter account itself, *not* the content.




So I've noticed some things have been posted on Dragoneer's Twitter account that seem to have been completely ignored, and no threads made. I do not understand why Twitter is suddenly the best source of information, and yet the account mentioned only in passing in occasional threads. If it's going to be used in this manner, at least link to it from FA, like the FA Twitter feed (which I haven't even looked at). Or, you know, actually use the forum? I imagine it's hard to give constructive criticism with 140 characters. But on to the tweets...



			
				@Dragoneer (~2 weeks ago) said:
			
		

> We'll be using it in our ad campaign very soon. =D



What's this? An ad campaign? Gosh, this sounds interesting. If only this wasn't the only reference to it in the known universe. I have to wonder where exactly something like FA could be advertised that wasn't completely redundant though. I have to _wonder_, of course, because there's no information on it whatsoever. 



			
				@Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Looking for feedback. http://dragoneer.furaffinity.net/fa_gallery_template.jpg New gallery thumbnail system, layout tweaks + header. #DelayedAsHell #DNF



Wait _what?_ Seriously? The UI thread is closed and then there's suddenly a new preview on Twitter? No thread made, no announcement, no way to provide feedback if one is not already registered on Twitter. The forum has over 50,000 members, whereas the Twitter feed only has 5,000 followers, why is _that_ the only one to receive this news? 



			
				@Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Blotch is doing our official banners (one for each season).



So what happens to all the people who would usually submit banners? 



			
				@Dragoneer said:
			
		

> I'm planning on some other ideas to give artists exposure. =3



Oh good. I can't wait to hear about it. If you're still planning it, then it's unfinished, so you know, perhaps this would be a good time to ask for feedback? Perhaps you could even use that forum thingy I mentioned.



			
				@Dragoneer said:
			
		

> We want to set it so that all stories submit are converted to PDF, and displayed as PDF. Universal, easy to display.





			
				@Dragoneer (with regards to the PDFs) said:
			
		

> That's an ideal. Ideally, I'd prefer a WYSIWYG editor w/ rich display. We're still discussing it.



Aside from using "ideal" to refer to two entirely different systems, I'm sure there's a great deal of feedback people would like to give on using PDFs. You know, if they were actually aware of the idea.



And that's just the recent ones, I haven't bothered to go back very far. So much new information, and only a little over 5,000 people have been informed.

What the hell?


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## dinosaurdammit (Feb 3, 2012)

I fucking hate twitter and never will be a twat ever again. If the world of fa is going to end and its announced on twitter I will never fucking know BECAUSE I FUCKING HATE TWITTER. I shouldnt have to go to a 3rd party site to find out information that should be posted on its OWN forum. >:C


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## Takun (Feb 3, 2012)

Oh, we have a twitter?


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## LizardKing (Feb 3, 2012)

Oh, a detail I forgot: Because this is Dragoneer's personal Twitter and not the official FA one, it is of course also filled with whatever he feels like Tweeting, and the occasional bit of news about FA is mixed in with this. No no no. Personal random tweets and news about FA shouldn't be mixed together. It'd be like having FA combined with Facebook, where +watches automatically provide you with Facebook status updates and shit in addition to actual submissions. I shouldn't have to be bombarded with various nonsense, links, pictures, and other things I don't care about on the off chance that something actually related to FA gets posted. 

Would it really be so dreadful to keep @Dragoneer as a personal account and put FA-related news on @FurAffinity instead? That is, FA news that shouldn't _be on the forum instead._


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 3, 2012)

:/ I thought we had this conversation before to use the forums and not Twitter...


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## Zydala (Feb 3, 2012)

Everytime a thread like this comes up and mods seem to be left out of the loop it reassures me about where the site is going :\


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## Jashwa (Feb 3, 2012)

Yeah, loving how the mods/admins have no idea what's going on or why he's doing what he does either. It makes me laugh.


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## Summercat (Feb 3, 2012)

Is it odd that aside from the ad campaign, I knew about all of this stuff already? 

I dont' think these are official announcements or anything. *shrug*

/Yes, I just pulled the "Nonstory, overzealous Dragoneer" meme.
//...sigh.


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## LizardKing (Feb 3, 2012)

Summercat said:


> Is it odd that aside from the ad campaign, I knew about all of this stuff already?



Given you're an admin on FA, no, not re- well actually maybe yes. But let's go with no.



Summercat said:


> I dont' think these are official announcements or anything. *shrug*



Which is kinda the point. Why aren't they? Here's me thinking an update on the UI was a big deal, not some "Oh by the way guys there's this thing but whatever" throwaway tweet which only a minority will see. The tweet specifically asks for feedback. If feedback was wanted, why is it not posted in the place most likely to garner that feedback? Why is a potential major change to the written submission system treated with equal apathy? It'd be nice to find out about this stuff on FA's actual forum, instead of some imageboard.



Summercat said:


> Yes, I just pulled the "Nonstory, overzealous Dragoneer" meme



I have absolutely no idea what that means.


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## Summercat (Feb 3, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> Which is kinda the point. Why aren't they? Here's me thinking an update on the UI was a big deal, not some "Oh by the way guys there's this thing but whatever" throwaway tweet which only a minority will see. The tweet specifically asks for feedback. If feedback was wanted, why is it not posted in the place most likely to garner that feedback? Why is a potential major change to the written submission system treated with equal apathy? It'd be nice to find out about this stuff on FA's actual forum, instead of some imageboard.



Mainly because it's simply not ready yet. That's the long and the short of it. Aint official at this time. This would be like me discussing changes I'd like to make to my magazines in a twitter exchange, or discussing them in a forum thread on here. 

That's my read of it, at least. Of course, I'm notoriously "meh" on these sorts of subjects, so your milage may vary.

And the "Nonstory, Overzealous Staffer" is a meme on Fark.com regarding when a political office or organization does something stupid that can be attributed to a single staffer (as part of the blame game, at least). It's used sarcasticly.


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## Corto (Feb 3, 2012)

Ok if these were actual announcements/FA announcing news in the FA feed while ignoring mainsite/forum announcements, I'd be mad. 

But how it is now, I don't really have a problem with it. This is no different than Neer making a journal or some such stuff, these are not official FA announcements that Neer didn't think about putting somewhere else, this is just him using Twitter for what it's supposed to: Talk about our everyday boring lives. Since his specific life includes "running and owning FA", that kinda creeps into his twits or twats or whatever those pieces of text are called. Considering FA's tendency to promise a million things it then utterly fails to deliver, I actually consider this an improvement. Neer gives out info about upcoming stuff, people get to see it, but since it's just the developer making idle comments instead of actual announcements, people know it's all WIP and subject to change/cancellation/whatever.
Now the problem would be if, once a level of advancement is reached on the idea/upgrade (such as the PDF thing for example), Neer neglects to make an actual announcement.


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## Armaetus (Feb 4, 2012)

I'd more or so like it if it wasn't a ubiquitous artist doing banners...I prefer seeing banners done by artist who should be getting more exposure, not Blotch or some other popufur. :|


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## SkieFire (Feb 4, 2012)

The Blotch banners are there so we always have a theme to use. I think the plan eventually is to open them up much like the existing banners are, hopefully with some strict rules on including SecreT  I think I've even heard mention of allowing artists to submit the 4 seasons. Personally I dont like the xbox huge size of the borders, but the gallery page itself is dynamic and arranges the thumbs to fit as many on one row as it can. Which is neat.

Dragoneer linked these in the admin irc channel and wanted some feedback and then did the same on twitter. It was more a quick way of gathering opinions rather than something that needed an official announcement (and all the drama that comes from them).


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## Volkodav (Feb 4, 2012)

"Blotch is doing our official banners (one for each season)."

why :T
get one extremely-popular-yiffyaff-artist to do the banners only instead of doing the less-popular-furry-artists we have now doing them to get more watchers/commissioners

good grief

edit: just saw skie's post. well thats cool
no secret allowed


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 4, 2012)

Well one honest design sense is that this should be a gallery for all users. I really dislike the background image because it makes it more of someone's personal blog vs a website artists share.

That doesn't mean we can't have a banner, but having full image backgrounds like that offset the matting of each picture it can really mess up some of the colors because of competing compliments etc... It can also cause composition problems for artists because it's also distracting. Less of that please, there's nothing wrong with plain backgrounds that display the art.


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## Volkodav (Feb 4, 2012)

Seconding what Arshes said. It also looks a bit too... hmmm
Like it takes up too much focus? The actual site part isn't wide enough IMO, too much of the background shows. It's starting to look a bit like InkBunny and I don't like the way Inkbunny's profile layouts are set up. Too much open space. The focus is more on the background than the site.

not to mention the detail on the background takes away from the site and makes it look a bit cluttered. perhaps if it were a simpler background it could work? I dunno, I'm not good at critiquing.

EDIT: hre i did something really quick for what i mean
http://i42.tinypic.com/34gkqhi.png


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## Williamca (Feb 4, 2012)

I too have to side with what Arshes said. Banners are okay, but full background graphics like that would just detriment from some pieces value very easily.


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## SkieFire (Feb 4, 2012)

I personally hate wasted space in a browser window. I rarely browse full screen so having an extra wide border kinda wastes far too much usable space. It was my first bit of feedback 

As for the backdrops, I forgot about this tweet: https://twitter.com/#!/Dragoneer/status/165215366396649472 They are the default theme, but there will be another theme with just the banner image and plain background. Also, remember that the page resizes dynamically, so that 4 thumbnail across image could be 8 thumbnails across if your browser window is wide enough so then they probably wouldn't be as in your face as they look in the preview. But more choice is always good.


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## LizardKing (Feb 4, 2012)

Summercat said:


> Mainly because it's simply not ready yet. That's the long and the short of it. Aint official at this time..



Again, that's the point. It's not ready, and he's asking for feedback on it. But he's asking for it in the worst place possible, short of just going over to lulz and asking there (though hell, at least it'd get more responses). The ad campaign thing, fine I can live with that, he's just being a tease, whatever. But when it's something that will affect the design of FA, shouldn't we all be entitled to give feedback, instead of just a bunch of people on Twitter who are then limited to tiny 140-character replies?



Corto said:


> Now the problem would be if, once a level of advancement is reached on the idea/upgrade (such as the PDF thing for example), Neer neglects to make an actual announcement.



Certainly.



			
				@Dragoneer said:
			
		

> There's a lot of changes based on the last time it was shown. Many of the changes are live on our test. Other stuff soon.



I'm hoping this doesn't mean "More stuff I'll only post to my Twitter feed".

If this is all just really early preview shit and an actual announcement with actual feedback will be appearing soon on the forum, before anything is actually finalised, then fine, but it'd be nice to have confirmation if this is how it actually works. At the moment, it just looks like he's neglecting the forums.



Glaice said:


> I'd more or so like it if it wasn't a ubiquitous artist doing banners...I prefer seeing banners done by artist who should be getting more exposure, not Blotch or some other popufur. :|



_>Bunch of off-topic stuff predictably follows_

Was the big red text not enough? =/


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## Devious Bane (Feb 4, 2012)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I fucking hate twitter



/thread


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## theguywiththecamera (Feb 4, 2012)

I can understand it not being an official statement and FA related tweets being in Dragoneers Twitter feed. It does make more sense though, to ask for feedback here or even on FA's Twitter. If someone wants feedback on future plans or changes to the site, the site forums is the logical choice.


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## Armaetus (Feb 4, 2012)

Dragoneer (and Gavin) really should be keeping us in the light, not guessing or only giving slivers of info.


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## Xipoid (Feb 4, 2012)

The fact that Twitter still exists puzzles me to no end. The service itself I just don't understand nor does it appeal to me. Call me old-fashioned, but I feel that if you want to have a discussion or post news you either need to use your point of largest contact, some kind of press release, a discussion forum, or just all of them.

I would be interested in seeing a "Current Status" or "Latest News" page on FA. A place you can go where information about the status of FA, updates, feature changes, AUP/SA/document changes, announcements, and discussions of said announcements are the dedicated purpose. The forums are nice, but I think it would be even better having that stuff right on the main site... or both and link one to the other. It would certainly help with FA's apparent closed door policy. I feel that FA would do well with documentation and lots of it.


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## Zydala (Feb 4, 2012)

I can understand Corto and Summercat's POV on this, that it CAN be considered not-news, and I think that it's perfectly okay to have things like updates and previews be personal stuff (since he owns the site), but it's just strange to me that it was considered not-news when the changes were posted right after a thread about "where's some updates with the new UI" were closed and we were told that more wait-time was needed.

I certainly wanted to see all the changes - I'm very interested in where it's all going! - but I keep my twitter account private and just use it with friends and family so I wouldn't have known there were updates unless this thread came up. I guess my argument is 'why not share something with those who were already interested in knowing', but I know the forums here are a tough crowd anyway.


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## Volkodav (Feb 4, 2012)

Xipoid said:


> The fact that Twitter still exists puzzles me to no end. The service itself I just don't understand nor does it appeal to me. Call me old-fashioned, but I feel that if you want to have a discussion or post news you either need to use your point of largest contact, some kind of press release, a discussion forum, or just all of them.
> 
> I would be interested in seeing a "Current Status" or "Latest News" page on FA. A place you can go where information about the status of FA, updates, feature changes, AUP/SA/document changes, announcements, and discussions of said announcements are the dedicated purpose. The forums are nice, but I think it would be even better having that stuff right on the main site... or both and link one to the other. It would certainly help with FA's apparent closed door policy. I feel that FA would do well with documentation and lots of it.



twitter is fun as hell 
my twitter is filled with just me talking about dying and puking and bitching about life and I have 200 followers.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 4, 2012)

Xipoid said:


> The fact that Twitter still exists puzzles me to no end. The service itself I just don't understand nor does it appeal to me. Call me old-fashioned, but I feel that if you want to have a discussion or post news you either need to use your point of largest contact, some kind of press release, a discussion forum, or just all of them.



Twitter has one purpose I actually like. There are gourmet food trucks that tend to stop at different areas during the week. There's a lot of people who chase these trucks after the success of Koji so a short tweet where the trucks will be is helpful. Other than that, I find that Twitter is rather useless for other stuff unless it's a tweet you updated your blog.


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## Ben (Feb 4, 2012)

Xipoid said:


> The fact that Twitter still exists puzzles me to no end. The service itself I just don't understand nor does it appeal to me. Call me old-fashioned, but I feel that if you want to have a discussion or post news you either need to use your point of largest contact, some kind of press release, a discussion forum, or just all of them.
> 
> I would be interested in seeing a "Current Status" or "Latest News" page on FA. A place you can go where information about the status of FA, updates, feature changes, AUP/SA/document changes, announcements, and discussions of said announcements are the dedicated purpose. The forums are nice, but I think it would be even better having that stuff right on the main site... or both and link one to the other. It would certainly help with FA's apparent closed door policy. I feel that FA would do well with documentation and lots of it.



I think the only really mystifying thing is how so many people use it as a legitimate platform for maintaining conversation, since when you factor in their @usernames, you only have roughly 130 characters. If anything, Twitter makes more sense as a one-way communication tool, which gives people a jumping off-point to engage in conversation in a more private place. At least, that's how I use it.


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## Accountability (Feb 4, 2012)

SkieFire said:


> I personally hate wasted space in a browser window. I rarely browse full screen so having an extra wide border kinda wastes far too much usable space. It was my first bit of feedback
> 
> As for the backdrops, I forgot about this tweet: https://twitter.com/#!/Dragoneer/status/165215366396649472 They are the default theme, but there will be another theme with just the banner image and plain background. Also, remember that the page resizes dynamically, so that 4 thumbnail across image could be 8 thumbnails across if your browser window is wide enough so then they probably wouldn't be as in your face as they look in the preview. But more choice is always good.



The page sure doesn't look like it resizes dynamically. It's been that size in every preview that's ever been put out.

I wish there'd just be a logo instead of all this banner crap. A lot of effort is wasted in coordinating banners when they serve no real purpose 90% of the time. I know I'll be turning mine off.


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## Corto (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah a logo would be nice. I don't care about banners now, but this huge ass background image that creeps everywhere is just intrusive, distracting, and in my opinion, looks like crap (no offense to the artist, but that's definitely not the way I'd like my websites to look like. Too cluttered, like someone said "hey now that we've got this sleek streamlined UI, how do we fill our "shit to distract you" quota?"). And as Arshes has said before, it still mistifies me how such a massive site as FA still doesn't have a recognizable logo.

EDIT: Since oops Im going off topic


Zydala said:


> I can understand Corto and Summercat's POV on this, that it CAN be considered not-news, and I think that it's perfectly okay to have things like updates and previews be personal stuff (since he owns the site), but it's just strange to me that it was considered not-news when the changes were posted right after a thread about "where's some updates with the new UI" were closed and we were told that more wait-time was needed.


That actually helps make my point. This is not an announcement, if Neer posted this on the FA feed or mainsite or here or wherever announcements are made nowadays, even with a huge ass disclaimer saying it was an april fools joke or a WIP or an extremely early proto-alpha, people would still be complaining about the same stuff they always do (namely, "why do you announce this and then never release it"?)
I think one of FA's main goals (maybe number two, after "getting stuff done") should be cutting down on the promises it makes. When you make a million promises and repeatedly fail to pay off, people stop trusting you. This "get a sneak peek, but this ain't actual news until we say so" development is a step in the right direction. But that's just my opinion.

EDIT: Ok re-reading my post, that came out very wrong. I don't mean to say that we should never announce anything because that way we're not technically breaking any promises, that's retarded and basically means stopping development altogether. What I mean is that, if you have a million ideas on how to improve the site, you develop them, see which ones are actually feasible, which ones prosper, maybe get some very early opinions through non-official releases (like with Neer's twitter) and then, when you're in a position to actually say "hey this will work out" then you officially announce it. What you don't do is announce all those million ideas because when you fail to fulfill those promises, even if there is a very good reason for it, all you have left is a broken promise and another batch of trust lost (on the other hand, what you also don't do, is implement those changes with no announcements at all, hoping no one will notice or mind).
I see these "mini unofficial announcements" as a step towards this way of doing things (instead of just Neer messing up and using the wrong Twitter account or whatever. What can I say, I have faith on my boss) and this is why I defend it.


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## Zydala (Feb 4, 2012)

I guess what I meant, Corto, is that we had a thread of people basically saying "what's going on right now with the re-design?" So it was a group of interested people (however bitter of a group ) who wanted to see what was going on in any shape or form - promised or no, it's not like we'd hold back any feedback - and the thread was closed and even though WE were interested, the screens and stuff were put up pretty soon afterward but weren't given to us directly at all. So it just feels like it was kind of done in this weird spiteful manner. I'm not saying it was, just saying it felt like it was, I'm sure intentions aren't that way at all, it might have just been timing or the previous thread kind of boosted some interest in getting stuff done. Though I don't blame Dragoneer or anyone here for not wanting to bring it to the forums immediately after... it's a tough crowd around here, haha

I understand not wanting to promise anything, and playing with ideas and bringing them to a smaller audience that might give you simpler feedback. You guys are allowed to handle this however you'd like, and certainly it's not a wrong way. Just surprising given what had happened earlier is all.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 5, 2012)

I guess, that's why I'm a bit more biased/partial to CGHub's layout. I go there and it's this fantastic page of art related stuff. I know that the image cloud on the front is about popularity, but then you have staff that give editorial picks, and often times "less popular" artists that get their break. If that wasn't enough, if you look at an image there is a side page of "Needs Critique" and while there is "Popular stuff" it's also Scripts/Brushes and related art goods for at least illustrators. I wouldn't have found a gem like this (NSFW) http://cghub.com/blog/view/adam-and-dog/ if not for the layout.

I find new artists all the time, and it's not that stupid setup DA has...but I know that would take more manpower and common sense on how to get FA to be a bit more interesting than "stop copying my style, porn commissions open" and "let's do more drama about the banner, instead of creating an identity" for FA. Nor do I want FA to be a CGHub clone per say...but just that I feel like at times being on FA is like going to someone's garage sale full of stuff, and while you're digging you accidentally pick up the soiled and unwashed panties someone thought it would be a good idea to sell 

PS to the person doing the UI, remember the design rule of thumb: KISS. 
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid


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## Armaetus (Feb 6, 2012)

Corto, there is only so many times you can keep continuing to put 100% faith in Dragoneer. Eventually questioning things will have to be done more often to keep skeptical.


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## DW_ (Feb 6, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> PS to the person doing the UI, remember the design rule of thumb: KISS.
> Keep
> It
> Simple
> Stupid



Basically, avoid becoming Photoshop. :V


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## Zaraphayx (Feb 6, 2012)

People who rage excessively on the frivolity of social media remind me of my parents who think that life was better before computers and math were invented.


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## Devious Bane (Feb 7, 2012)

Zaraphayx said:


> People who rage excessively on the frivolity of social media remind me of my parents who think that life was better before computers and math were invented.


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFacebook.
Math is just fine. It's just computers that end up ticking us off before the end of every day.


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## Zaraphayx (Feb 7, 2012)

Devious Bane said:


> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFacebook.
> Math is just fine. It's just computers that end up ticking us off before the end of every day.



I was being silly, I just have a hard time taking technophobia seriously because it seems like every new invention or concept is a threat to human civilization as we know it.

Especially when it comes from people who spend a lot of time on the internet. Which, when I was really young, was something my peers and mentors alike thought was mundane and pointless; a toy for nerds and gamers. Fast forward a decade and some change and not a single one of them spends a day without checking their email or logging onto Facebook.


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## Xaerun (Feb 7, 2012)

Personally I hate the idea of using Twitter at all for official/site related announcements, because it's something not all users have access to/will use on a regular basis, but admittedly also due to the huge circlejerk/shitfest that Twitter is. Have you seen that goddamn community? Particularly the prolific furry... uh... tweeters? Keep it all forum/mainsite side, I says. Grumblegrumble.



Zaraphayx said:


> People who rage excessively on the frivolity of social media remind me of my parents who think that life was better before computers and math were invented.


They had self-absorbed douchebags back then too.


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## Zaraphayx (Feb 7, 2012)

Xaerun said:


> They had self-absorbed douchebags back then too.



The only difference is that now I can spend 3.5 hours a day looking at skillfully manipulated 'candid' photos of myself on Facebook instead of bothering with a pesky mirror!


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## Devious Bane (Feb 7, 2012)

Zaraphayx said:


> I was being silly, I just have a hard time taking technophobia seriously because it seems like every new invention or concept is a threat to human civilization as we know it.


Where I live, not many people own a computer, let alone know how to operate one. It adds up to no one giving much care about what goes on the internet.
I'm like the only IT guy in a 20mile radius, and everything I see new on the internet does not inspire me one bit - Let alone make me believe it could be the end of life as we know it.

Typical Technophobes don't even own something as simple as a home phone or radio, and most of their appliances run off gas.


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## Zydala (Feb 7, 2012)

Man but what about us who aren't technophobes and just think that this way of announcements isn't efficient in the slightest? I own a twitters and a tumbl and I do the facebooks and...

okay there's one problem with depending on social media right there. There's so many ways you can announce crap and there's no guarantee that a) a majority of people use said social media site and b) that they would even think to subscribe to it and let everyone know on said media site that they even frequent furry pages. Plus they fluctuate like crazy - myspace isn't cool anymore and twitter, while still going strong certainly doesn't have as many active users anymore. Who knows what will replace facebook.

I know the technophobia thing was just a joke but any reason that *I* object to it is on completely different terms.


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## Devious Bane (Feb 7, 2012)

It's like comparing Origin to Steam.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 7, 2012)

While Dragoneer's history of posting site announcements in his own journal instead of Fender's (and now posting site-related stuff on his own Twitter instead of @FurAffinity) is problematic in its own way, FA using a Twitter account doesn't _have_ to be a problem in itself.

If the Tweets were also imported to the front page of the site. Spreading your announcements out isn't the most terrible thing ever, in case of major breakdowns, but they should at least be available in a single spot when everything's up and running. IMO.


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## Corto (Feb 7, 2012)

Because my handy wont let me quote: glaice, i didnt mean i have full confidence in neer. In fact, theres a bazillion things about how the site is run that i disagree with or find downright absolutely wrong (the use of twitter instead of a proper newsfeed being one of them), its just that these not beings news and, therefore, only psted by neer on his personal twitter is one of the (few) things i agree with. My faith commemts means i believe neer shared my vision of these not beings news, instead of just using his twitter instead of FAs to post news.


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## Waffles (Feb 7, 2012)

Corto said:


> Because my handy wont let me quote: glaice, i didnt mean i have full confidence in neer. In fact, theres a bazillion things about how the site is run that i disagree with or find downright absolutely wrong (the use of twitter instead of a proper newsfeed being one of them), its just that these not beings news and, therefore, only psted by neer on his personal twitter is one of the (few) things i agree with. My faith commemts means i believe neer shared my vision of these not beings news, instead of just using his twitter instead of FAs to post news.



Updates to FA's story system isn't news?
Showing off the new UI, asking for FEEDBACK isn't news?
First mentions of things like an "ad campaign" isn't news?


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## lostcat461 (Feb 7, 2012)

Waffles said:


> Updates to FA's story system isn't news?
> Showing off the new UI, asking for FEEDBACK isn't news?
> First mentions of things like an "ad campaign" isn't news?



Start yourself a Furry news network then, you can call int Ferrox News. Or... Folf News. (actually that is a good idea. Copyright pending.) Cause lets face it, FA is a LLC, which means if they want to report using their personal stuff, more power too them.


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## Armaetus (Feb 7, 2012)

lostcat461 said:


> Start yourself a Furry news network then, you can call int Ferrox News. Or... Folf News. (actually that is a good idea. Copyright pending.) Cause lets face it, FA is a LLC, which means if they want to report using their personal stuff, more power too them.



Such a venue already exists


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## Jashwa (Feb 7, 2012)

Glaice said:


> Such a venue already exists


Needs a live feed of what furries are being arrested for child porn/child molesting/dog fucking.


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## lostcat461 (Feb 7, 2012)

You mock, Jashwa, but that was a big way news papers got their subscriptions. Shame! 

And damn, there goes an idea that could make me... um.. probably hundreds of dollars! But regardless, independent reporting is usually the answer if ya don't like how things are being reported to you.


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## Waffles (Feb 7, 2012)

lostcat461 said:


> You mock, Jashwa, but that was a big way news papers got their subscriptions. Shame!
> 
> And damn, there goes an idea that could make me... um.. probably hundreds of dollars! But regardless, independent reporting is usually the answer if ya don't like how things are being reported to you.



...that makes no sense
"I dislike how BBC is reporting my news - I'LL MAKE MY OWN COMPANY!"


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## lostcat461 (Feb 7, 2012)

Waffles said:


> ...that makes no sense
> "I dislike how BBC is reporting my news - I'LL MAKE MY OWN COMPANY!"



You are missing a step. FA is not in the business of giving you their information. So instead it is more of "I don't like how McDonalds talks about their nutrition, I am going to go report it myself. (or make a movie documentary expose.)"

I mean really. They aren't publicly traded, they are an LLC (Limited Liability corporation) And ya know what that limited liability means?


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## Zydala (Feb 7, 2012)

lostcat461 said:


> You are missing a step. FA is not in the business of giving you their information. So instead it is more of "I don't like how McDonalds talks about their nutrition, I am going to go report it myself. (or make a movie documentary expose.)"
> 
> I mean really. They aren't publicly traded, they are an LLC (Limited Liability corporation) And ya know what that limited liability means?



They're not in the business of information, but being disorganized in the way they promote themselves is not helping the site by any means, and its befuddling and difficult for users. Making another site for news wouldn't help much because it's just one more of the half-dozen ways people would have to go around and find out about anything going on, which is the problem in the first place that we're complaining about right now.

It's hard to argue against FA being more efficient and organized. They're allowed to do as they please, and I'm certainly not against them utilizing social media, but for the benefit of FA and its niche fandom, we the users are using the forums as a place to speak out and let the staff know that we would like to see news and such in a place easier to access. McDonalds probably doesn't benefit from giving easy access to information that looks bad, but FA can only benefit from giving users the chance to give easy feedback and letting them in on new changes that help the site.


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## lostcat461 (Feb 7, 2012)

But then, Zydala, that is the whole point. You can never rely on just one news source in this day and age. One could say they could just make the forums the official one stop information shop. But then people who want a notice on the website would complain. Then everyone obligatorily has to have a twitter and Facebook. Then once more, coordinating all of this is a problem for businesses with their own marketing departments. It is understandable why FA has difficulties.

And also remember, there is a big problem with things like forums for getting customer feedback. It is the reason comment cards and such at businesses are a failure. There is an automatic negative bias any time people go out of their way to post things. (without giving gifts and rewards, which is why Target offers a 1000 dollar give away if you complete their "surveys") 

What started this all is that the forum has been pushed aside for more a convenient notification system. Which twitter is. It is a lazy way to send a mass, short, single message to all your contacts. Unfortunately it won't go away. Really... a simple solution would be to link the twitter feed to FA itself. 

Also, no offense, but is the information really that hard to access? Each of the avenues for site information are findable under the main site's Community tag (drop down thingy) Lets face it, it isn't hard to sign up for notifications from any of these sites. Nor is there a burden of cost. It is the future, and viral marketing sites like Facebook and twitter aren't going away any time soon.


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## Corto (Feb 7, 2012)

Waffles said:


> Updates to FA's story system isn't news?Showing off the new UI, asking for FEEDBACK isn't news?First mentions of things like an "ad campaign" isn't news?


 reread my previous posts. One of the biggest problems with FA (imo) is making a load of empty promises. Until some more headway is made, and weÂ´re closer to actually being able to test/release this, just keep these "unofficial pre-anouncements". Otherwise itÂ´s just yet another empty annoucement with no release date in the horizons, like weÂ´ve gotten for, what, six years now?


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## Zydala (Feb 7, 2012)

lostcat461 said:


> But then, Zydala, that is the whole point. You can never rely on just one news source in this day and age. One could say they could just make the forums the official one stop information shop. But then people who want a notice on the website would complain. Then everyone obligatorily has to have a twitter and Facebook. Then once more, coordinating all of this is a problem for businesses with their own marketing departments. It is understandable why FA has difficulties.
> 
> And also remember, there is a big problem with things like forums for getting customer feedback. It is the reason comment cards and such at businesses are a failure. There is an automatic negative bias any time people go out of their way to post things. (without giving gifts and rewards, which is why Target offers a 1000 dollar give away if you complete their "surveys")
> 
> ...




Like I said, I don't mind them using social media, as long as they're consistent with the information getting around. I'm not saying they have to stick to just one avenue, but they at least have to be consistent in how the information gets around. For example, this started not because it was _on twitter_ (which the official one is, indeed, in that drop-down box), but because it was _on the personal twitter of the site owner_, which has no link (for decent reasons). It's weird to have more information coming from someone's personal twitter - something that not everyone will think to subscribing to - and not having any official way of getting to it through the site, which in turn gives users less of a chance to know what's going on when they might want to. 

(This is, of course, leaving out the discussion of what is "news" and what isn't... just to keep things simpler.)

I think your suggestion of having an embedded feed - such as twitter, a forum post, or a blog site - on the main FA page or easily accessed from the FA page is a good idea and probably the most efficient. They could then use whatever other means they want - twitter, forums, the face-booking, tumbles etc - to link to the original, official announcements. I think that's a pretty ideal solution. The problem wasn't that FA was using social media, like I said, it's that it wasn't even originally using the media that we have access to and made for that purpose. That's what I meant, really. Sorry if it wasn't as clear in the other post.

In any case, I totally understand what you mean about the 'negative feedback' thing of forums - this place is notorious for having its critics (though I'm not saying that it's bad or good). But the forums do have their place in being able to discuss and do brainstorming on these sorts of subjects, which in turn at least get considered. If they don't, that's fine, really. But I do understand why people feel a bit baffled at times with FA's decisions - it does, sometimes, feel like things are on a whim around here.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 7, 2012)

The whole thing seems silly to me though. Don't want people to mush up updates, post locked posts. I don't see how twitter is productive for constructive feedback. You could make a thread/forum moderated by default like we do with the apps. If people don't like the fact it's moderated, tough - it would be to clean up the clutter and people bickering about FA's promises.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a crazy person and this doesn't make sense...instead of being chicken shit about things, or if you're scared of some criticism, you just filter it and tough it out.

Twitter is good if you want to do promotions. Buy an ad get an extra week free or something.


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## lostcat461 (Feb 7, 2012)

But see, lets see your argument from a different perspective.

Imagine yourself as a business owner. You do not have shareholders, and you don't have to make reports or answer to much except taxes. You have a business account twitter, facebook, and superfacebook. But you also have your own personal account, and on it are your friends and admirers. Do you have the right to talk about the business in a casual sense? You can't insider trade or anything. So why not? FA announcements would still go on the FA twitter. But you can still poll your small group of watchers. (5000 in comparison to 50k). I mean really, read the examples in the original argument. 

(We won't argue about them cause we are adults and that is what the thread says not to do)

But at least to me, they seem far from any form of iron clad announcement.


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## Zydala (Feb 7, 2012)

lostcat461 said:


> But see, lets see your argument from a different perspective.
> 
> Imagine yourself as a business owner. You do not have shareholders, and you don't have to make reports or answer to much except taxes. You have a business account twitter, facebook, and superfacebook. But you also have your own personal account, and on it are your friends and admirers. Do you have the right to talk about the business in a casual sense? You can't insider trade or anything. So why not? FA announcements would still go on the FA twitter. But you can still poll your small group of watchers. (5000 in comparison to 50k). I mean really, read the examples in the original argument.
> 
> ...



That's personally why I said I wasn't getting into the topic of 'news vs not news' in my above post. Because honestly throw that in and a lot of it is moot. 

ehh I'm just gonna requote myself from the first page:



> I can understand Corto and Summercat's POV on this, that it CAN be considered not-news, and I think that it's perfectly okay to have things like updates and previews be personal stuff (since he owns the site), but it's just strange to me that it was considered not-news when the changes were posted right after a thread about "where's some updates with the new UI" were closed and we were told that more wait-time was needed.



So it feels like it was shut-off to a user majority that wanted that particular news (so maybe we can indeed deem it 'significant site news' in that sense) and instead polled to people who are closer to the person in nature. This might be and is probably not the case! But it's what happened and it obviously was enough to make people want to make a thread about it.

Anyway I guess if I've come full-circle on my argument it means I better just drop my investment in this discussion lol


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## lostcat461 (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, it is a forum discussion. You shouldn't be investing in them. They never pay off. Instead go with slow growth dividend companies. 

Now on the note. Just cause a lot of people wanted to know something is a TERRIBLE reason to make judgements on what and how and where things would be posted. Lets face it. A personal account will probably get information first. Cause it is personal. When someone makes an official "Announcement" they tend to want to manage it. IE frame it in a way that people will take it in a positive light.


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