# Backward progress



## Recel (Jul 21, 2013)

About a month ago, I started to draw again. I knew I would be rusty, things wouldn't come out how they should, but I also thought I'll get the hang of it again and start making progress.
Problem is, I didn't. So much in fact, I seem to draw worse than a month ago.

I try to do some gesture drawing, anatomy study and a little bit of life drawing each day. But results seem to go backwards, and I honestly don't understand why. I know you lose a lot if you don't draw and things will look much worse after, but I never thought you could progress backward while practicing and drawing. Just doesn't make sense!

I don't feel afraid to draw, and things worked out fine previously, but with each day it would seem things just went off. Can't hold proportions together anymore, "lost" my sense of length, and lately I can't seem to even sketch up a proper framework for my works.

So... I'm really out of ideas what I'm missing, or what I'm doing that I shouldn't. And I'm starting to just get frustrated with the whole thing again, which needles to say, doesn't help.


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## Zydala (Jul 21, 2013)

honestly as someone who quit and continued and quit again and continued again... ad nauseam...  I know how you feel. It's definitely frustrating.

What helps me when I'm in a rut like that is trying something completely new - not necessarily drawing something new but going at it in a different way. I wish I could describe it better. Like, I find that sometimes I'll get stuck in drawing eyes the same way, setting up gestures the same way, and with that all the same flaws and I don't really learn anything new. So I'll try something new, like... instead of boxing/shapes method, I'll do a scribble gesture, or block in the negative space with a huge piece of charcoal to really see the shape of things.

Another thing to keep in mind - when you feel like you're going backwards, remember that your brain learns new things before your motor skills catch up to it. So your brain, during your break, has since absorbed new information and now you see problems you didn't before, but don't know exactly what to do with them. Keeping at it is the only way for your hand to catch up though!


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## Judge Spear (Jul 21, 2013)

I don't think you can literally go backwards...but I understand the feeling. Oh my FUCK do I understand the feeling. This is a case when I feel no other advice will work except to keep at it.


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## Recel (Jul 21, 2013)

Zydala said:


> honestly as someone who quit and continued and quit again and continued again... ad nauseam...  I know how you feel. It's definitely frustrating.
> 
> What helps me when I'm in a rut like that is trying something completely new - not necessarily drawing something new but going at it in a different way. I wish I could describe it better. Like, I find that sometimes I'll get stuck in drawing eyes the same way, setting up gestures the same way, and with that all the same flaws and I don't really learn anything new. So I'll try something new, like... instead of boxing/shapes method, I'll do a scribble gesture, or block in the negative space with a huge piece of charcoal to really see the shape of things.
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind - when you feel like you're going backwards, remember that your brain learns new things before your motor skills catch up to it. So your brain, during your break, has since absorbed new information and now you see problems you didn't before, but don't know exactly what to do with them. Keeping at it is the only way for your hand to catch up though!



I feel stupid, but I just don't understand half your post. :/

I don't really understand what you mean by trying something new. I mean, there are just that many ways to draw an eye, if you don't stylize it. Which I'm constantly told not to. It doesn't really seem to mater what technical approach I chose, the shapes aren't right, or not where they should be.

But maybe it's because of the second part, which I did understand. That even tho I know what should go where, what should be what form, I just can't make my hand draw the right things at the right places.

I'll just try to keep at it, but now, it almost makes me cry sometimes.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 21, 2013)

Recel said:


> I feel stupid, but I just don't understand half your post. :/
> 
> I don't really understand what you mean by trying something new. I mean, there are just that many ways to draw an eye, if you don't stylize it. Which I'm constantly told not to. It doesn't really seem to mater what technical approach I chose, the shapes aren't right, or not where they should be.
> 
> ...



Willow linked this elsewhere. It's really helpful. It could possibly get you back on track. http://www.wysp.ws/

And it's perfectly fine to stylize. Doing stuff for fun on the side of practice is healthy. All work and no play will make Recel a Cranassian Hell bent on the destruction of Earth. Style just can't be a crutch or an excuse for refusing to study some life/photo reference and grow. That's the problem style will have. Do it as much as you want, just keep trying to get REAL stuff in your sketchbook.


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## Recel (Jul 23, 2013)

Thank you Zydala and XoPachi.

I tried to draw a bit different, with less "care", slower, not rushing it, and actually correcting mistakes instead of just throwing things in the bin. And with a little mix of style and realism, something awesome is forming on my screen right now. Not the greatest, not the best thing ever, but to me, it's one of my best right now.

I was going backwards, because the more I failed, the more frustrated I got, and the more frustrated I got, the more I saw the tiniest of mistakes. So I kept throwing things away, instead of correcting or sticking with smaller mistakes, and I also started to rush things.
Now I try not to rush it. Take breaks and not wanting to finish something in one sitting, and even if it's no technical thing, it really helps to just go away for a while, and come back later with a fresh mind.


But all this aside, I still have some questions, if you don't mind.

In SAI, does anyone know a good setup for the airbrush or brush that will make it feel more like a pencil? I've been playing around with the settings, and found something I'm fairly comfortable with, but it's still not really "the thing" for me. I'd like the brush to look more like if I would be drawing with a pencil, if it's even possible.

Also would like some more books or PDFs on foreshortening, if anyone knows something? I have Loomis' Figure Drawing book, but it's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around it. And when I try to foreshorten limbs, especially if they are pointing more towards the viewer, things get wonky. Thinking in form kind of helps, but I guess I'm still not there. So anything helpful I could buy or get on the subject would be appreciated.

And thanks again for a bit of encouragement.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 23, 2013)

http://beroleagle.deviantart.com/art/Paint-Tool-SAI-Pencil-Brushes-96742060

I think when drawing things in different ways it's like changing the way you start. Do you start with the head and eyes? Usually people do because the eyes are very significant. Why not start drawing the torso first?

One thing I remember reading was that people worry too much about the first stroke on paper, so just make a random stroke across it and work your away around the stroke on the paper.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 23, 2013)

Recel said:


> Thank you Zydala and XoPachi.
> 
> I tried to draw a bit different, with less "care", slower, not rushing it, and actually correcting mistakes instead of just throwing things in the bin. And with a little mix of style and realism, something awesome is forming on my screen right now. Not the greatest, not the best thing ever, but to me, it's one of my best right now.
> 
> ...



Sometimes when I'm foreshortening, I just kinda loosely scrumble in the lines to see if the silhouette works first before I actually flesh it out. Saves time and frustration. It's basically just scribbling it in. :3

And you are welcome. I've gone through your gallery a few times. You do nice stuff and you show improvement. There's definitely passion when I see stuff like this.


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## Zydala (Jul 23, 2013)

Sorry I'm late with this reply! I was on vacation :3

What I meant by my first part (and which xopachi/arshes underlined and you figured out) was about approaching the same idea from a different angle; when you try another approach than usual ("I'm going to block in a silhouette of a figure instead of starting with my usual stick figure"), you're using a different part of your brain. Brains can get locked into patterns and we might not even realize it, sometimes we need to walk off the trail and something new will click with you!

When we say "don't think about style" we usually mean "don't EMULATE styles while doing studies. Every artist has their own style anyway; you give a room full of students the same instructions and the same assignment and they will all still be unique. So really there's a million ways to draw an eye without simplifying and using stylized symbolism (i.e. how to draw manga books). You can use crosshatching, negative space etching, you can go lineless and imply stuff with mass of value. The point is to never "draw yourself into a corner", per se :3

Glad to hear something clicked with you though! Just keep trying new things when you're in a rut.  happy drawing!


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## Recel (Jul 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://beroleagle.deviantart.com/art/Paint-Tool-SAI-Pencil-Brushes-96742060
> 
> I think when drawing things in different ways it's like changing the way you start. Do you start with the head and eyes? Usually people do because the eyes are very significant. Why not start drawing the torso first?
> 
> One thing I remember reading was that people worry too much about the first stroke on paper, so just make a random stroke across it and work your away around the stroke on the paper.



Thanks, I'll definitely try those brushes out.

And I often start with the head, tho I just as often start on a "where ever" basis. Or I draw up a chest for instance, like it, and continue to build up the character from there. 
My biggest worry isn't the first stroke, not even the basic gesture all that much, but I always seem to want to draw "the perfect" figure. So I see the smallest error in the anatomy, or in the proportions etc. and I just feel like I have to correct it. And an interesting, and frustrating, thing is, your second, third and even sixteenth try will always seem worse to you than the first way you drew it.

@Zydala, yeah, I kind of get what you meant now. And it's really easy to follow a pattern, I guess. After all, you would think "If I drew this way once, why wouldn't it work out the second time?". Tho it's kind of hard for me to draw things differently, it always was. I couldn't really say why, but it's like I _need_ to do X thing on a picture before I can actually start to really draw.

@XoPatchi, I try to work with coils my self to get a feel of the subject in relation to space, but what I mean is, when I draw in the outlines, and the coil is under it on another layer, it looks fine. But once I hide the coil, it just looks flat or wrong again.

And I don't know about passion. I don't consider my self a "passionate artists", just a guy who draws things from time to time.


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