# Why are there so many political threads?



## Ginza (Jul 5, 2018)

I have a genuine question: why do you guys insist upon making so many political threads? 

Furthermore,

1. Why do you post in, and argue in said threads
2. Do you not feel this forum is an inappropriate place for political discussion? Given that it’s a FURRY forum.
3. Do you feel disheartened by all these political threads? Especially the fact that the activity in them far outweighs the activity in relevant threads?

And please, do not turn this thread into a 15 page dumpster fire. Let’s be respectful, and have a serious discussion. We can’t ignore the fact that we’ve lost many friendly members because of the politics. We can’t ignore that people are threatened and harassed because of these threads. We can’t ignore that they tear us apart. 

Given the fact that these threads contribute nothing to the actual point of the site, and most end up locked, why bother making them? Do we, as a fandom, lack the self-control to do so? 

Why do many of you ignore threads asking about your fursona, or discussion on your favorite anthro character, but jump on discussion about politics? (there are several members in particular who are guilty of this).

Just.. why? That’s all I have to ask. 

Again, why here when there’s a place for it?
PoliticalForum.com - Forum for US and Intl Politics


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jul 5, 2018)

There are people who feel the need to justify themselves and seek acknowledgement and would do anything in their power to get the attention, hoping that there will be someone who goes "yeah, this guy is right."
From my observation people who do this often, don't respect the opinion of others and just want to prove themselves, prove how right they are with their facts and statistic and are generally feeding off from the attention. In my mind it's simply their way of filling some sort of emptiness they feel. Maybe no one cared about them when they were young, maybe no one took them seriously, maybe they're just born this way.

More often then not, these threads turn into "lmao ur stupid" "no u" "no u" "no u" "no u" and this keeps going with worse and worse insults being thrown until the thread gets locked cos it's now a shitshow. What are you trying to accomplish here? Prove how better and righteous you are? Well done you.

I almost never post in political threads because 1) this is a furry forum and 2) I really don't care about anyone's opinions on politics. Seeing people go apeshit over it makes me care even less, and not want to interact with them at all. Getting validation from strangers on the internet is quite abstract and there are better ways to go about it.


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## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 5, 2018)

we preachin' some truth up in this shit lol politics on a friggin ART FORUM is ridiculous


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 5, 2018)

I understand how you feel Ginza, and I have a few theories of my own as to why this problem keeps occurring.

One is that people love to argue with with others, especially if it's an opportunity to make themselves look superior or to shame someone they don't like. I've seen certain users constantly quote others for every post they made just for the sake of arguing with them. It may even have little to do with the original topic. When some one is debated, they can see it as a personal attack, and since this forum shows your post in public, your tempted to fight back and prove your point for the sake of appearing reasonable. This will eventually lead to cheap tactics and insults, thus creating dumpster fires.

Another is that people want to be heard for what they believe, especially if they are convinced they are right. They want everyone to know how they feel, and expect praise and attention for it. We as human beings can be stubborn, and will often ignore the voice in the back of our head that tells us to think before we speak. When discussing politics, every time you share your voice, expect someone to attack you for it. People also want to appear sensible, progressive, and open minded, and are so devoted to getting this perception from others that they will attack anyone they can on threads so they can to achieve it.

Another is that politics has become polarizing, and this also has occurred in our fandom as well. We have reached a point where many are at war with pushing the opposing group out of these forums. I have noticed the left using the phrase Nazi to demonize and exile conservatives, and conservatives will use the phrase SJW to portray liberals as hysterical and illogical, therefore not worth debating. Both sides are guilty of this, and we must admit that, because we are human, and humans can be stubborn. Some people are so devoted to exiling others that they will not only resort to using atrocious labels against you, but will go as far as to blackmail and leak personal information to silence you and others they find unfit to be here.

I'm sure you all know there was a person who did this. Thankfully they are no longer here.

I will admit I am stubborn too, and will sometimes hit below the belt towards people I disagree with when I feel attacked, and many people will admit they do that too. Given all the drama that political discussions has caused, it's no wonder many people wish not to engage in it, and I don't blame them for it. Some people really like discussing politics here, and I will admit that sometimes I do to. However, given all the problems it has caused, maybe we should no longer engage in such threads, and just ignore them.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 5, 2018)

Oakie-Dokie said:


> we preachin' some truth up in this shit lol politics on a friggin ART FORUM is ridiculous


That and the general stereotypes artists are suppose to be open minded. To the shock of many people this is simply not straight forward as many would think. It is not black and white morality it is usually grey and grey morality when it comes to politics.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 5, 2018)

Eh. What do you expect? The people who join them either love to
a) argue
b) talk about politics
c) troll(aka, shits and giggles)
d) continue some sort of divide that is currently going on(aka, have an agenda, possibly used as a recruiting tool)
e) likes drama
f) intends to target specific individuals they know they disagree with
g) lack any self-awareness on how their behaviour(honey) attracts the flies
or a mix if not all of the points stated.

Some topics we've been doing so many fucking times I can't take anyone seriously anymore.


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## WolfyAmbassador (Jul 5, 2018)

I was about to say something sooner or later myself. Though I am no angel and have contributed to the madness at times, controversial topics have been the highlights on this particular forum for some time now.


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## Telnac (Jul 5, 2018)

Well I can't speak for anyone else but I join them because I enjoy spirited debate. I try to get into the discussion before the trolls turn it all into a dumpster fire. Once it becomes a shouting match, I leave the debate. 

I disagree with the statement that this is an art forum. It's a furry forum. Furries are people. People are complex beings who can and will discuss and debate. I'm here because I like talking and getting to know fellow furries. That includes debating hot button topics like politics and religion. If you don't want such threads in General Discussion, I'm ok with the creation of a Debate subforum, but I'm not ok with banning debate topics.


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Jul 5, 2018)

I dunno man, if a bunch of animal yiffing cartoonists can't solve complex political issues what hope is there for anyone?


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Jul 5, 2018)

Because people are idiots and can't go anywhere without spewing their pro-trump, communist, anti-gun, anti-feminist transgender opinions.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 5, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Eh. What do you expect? The people who join them either love to
> a) argue
> b) talk about politics
> c) troll(aka, shits and giggles)
> ...


Yer kinda the pot calling the kettle black since you make political threads as well.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jul 5, 2018)

Beats the hell out of me! Politics i guess has become "main stream" now. But the funny thing is, who really can make heads or tails of all the bullshit going on in The USA today!? But I do kinda like seeing those kinda threads tumble into oblivion. Kinda like watching a multi car pileup. You cant look away! Anyways, what I don't like seeing is the animosity between furries. The anger. The hate. Not very Furry, if you ask me.


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## Telnac (Jul 5, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Beats the hell out of me! Politics i guess has become "main stream" now. But the funny thing is, who really can make heads or tails of all the bullshit going on in The USA today!? But I do kinda like seeing those kinda threads tumble into oblivion. Kinda like watching a multi car pileup. You cant look away! Anyways, what I don't like seeing is the animosity between furries. The anger. The hate. Not very Furry, if you ask me.


But... but... but... anger and hate are all I know.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 5, 2018)

People just tend to talk about what they are interested in or passionate about. I like myself a good debate quite honestly, so long as it's polite. Which is not often the case unfortunately. People just tend to get too invested sometimes.


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## Some Moron (Jul 5, 2018)

Furries are people. People are dumb.

The end.


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## Some Moron (Jul 5, 2018)

Maybe I should try posting a political thread? Ya' know, to point out how moronic they are.

Edit: I did. It made my brain hurt.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jul 5, 2018)

Some Moron said:


> Maybe I should try posting a political thread? Ya' know, to point out how moronic they are.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jul 5, 2018)

Huh.  I thought I might have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, given the posts in the last such thread I made, and the fact that we have this seems to confirm it.

Actually, I have to take issue with one thing you asked - specifically, point 2.  And not from a perspective of this place being appropriate.  I mean the implication that there IS an appropriate place to discuss politics - even if it has been sinking for a while, there's been a much more rapid decline of sane political discussion over... I'd say the last 5-10 years.  It's gotten well past the point where ANY political discussion at any level of experience devolves within minutes (seconds if it's face-to-face) into pure vitriol and mudslinging.  I might give the forum you linked a little closer look another time, but a few glimpses suggest a high rate of dumpster fires over there as well.  (As for the spot Yaka told me?  Hesitant to go there given what was said afterwards.)

At the same time, my local options for political talk are very limited - and in fact, until very recently, the more frequently-encountered ones have been behaving in a manner similar to alt-righters.  Given that I've stayed away from most of the harassment and threats of this forum's political threads to this point, bringing it up here looked like the sanest option at the time.

Is it disheartening?  Yes.  Am I being a little pessimistic?  Maybe.  Do I see an end to the descent?  Have to get back to you on that one.

I will say that 2-3 hours is still not enough time to give a political post enough thought.  Trust me, most of my political posts so far have taken me that long to write, and not solely due to size.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 5, 2018)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> Huh.  I thought I might have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, given the posts in the last such thread I made, and the fact that we have this seems to confirm it.
> 
> Actually, I have to take issue with one thing you asked - specifically, point 2.  And not from a perspective of this place being appropriate.  I mean the implication that there IS an appropriate place to discuss politics - even if it has been sinking for a while, there's been a much more rapid decline of sane political discussion over... I'd say the last 5-10 years.  It's gotten well past the point where ANY political discussion at any level of experience devolves within minutes (seconds if it's face-to-face) into pure vitriol and mudslinging.  I might give the forum you linked a little closer look another time, but a few glimpses suggest a high rate of dumpster fires over there as well.  (As for the spot Yaka told me?  Hesitant to go there given what was said afterwards.)
> 
> ...


Well, Kothorix's debate channel have a fuckton of activity on a daily basis, as I've stated earlier. Whether you agree or disagree with his stance on shit he knows how to properly run a decent Discord server. You have everything from Communists to Alt-Right members in there if I remember correctly. Pretty much the only requirement is to keep it civil. Don't act in a civil manner you get the boot, like you would on any other server.

Though there are other servers you can join as well. Top Furs have a real talk channel, for instance. But for servers that have heavily used real talk channels I'm going to have to do some looking around first in order to find you some options.


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## Mach (Jul 5, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Well, Kothorix's debate channel have a fuckton of activity on a daily basis, as I've stated earlier. Whether you agree or disagree with his stance on shit he knows how to properly run a decent Discord server.


I am not being political here because I think this is something everyone can agree on regardless on political affiliation:

Pedophilia is bad. Pedophiles are bad. Defending pedophilia and pedophiles is bad. Using a Discord server run by someone defending pedophiles and pedophilia is not a good idea. 

Please me tell me if this is controversial, I posted it in another thread:

"Also, this may be nitpicking, but I do not think we should be hyping Kothorix's server or Kothorix himself because his history regarding a certain issue we should all be on the same page on.




I just think we do not need endorse anything run by someone who defends pedophilia like this. We can do better."

Pardon the interruption to the thread.


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## Kyr (Jul 5, 2018)

Personally i just want to shitpost here, but i see too much of what i'd consider "moronic shit" being spouted by people that I just can't hold my tongue.

Then again my fundamental issue is one of ideology.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 5, 2018)

Mach said:


> I am not being political here because I think this is something everyone can agree on regardless on political affiliation:
> 
> Pedophilia is bad. Pedophiles are bad. Defending pedophilia and pedophiles is bad. Using a Discord server run by someone defending pedophiles and pedophilia is not a good idea.
> 
> ...


I believe Yaka already explained to you why he supports Kathorix's server for it's well managed political channel, and not his stance on pedophiles, on a previous thread.

forums.furaffinity.net: Haven't these legislators been at this long enough?


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## Balskarr (Jul 5, 2018)

As much as I'd hate to break this to you Ginza but this thread only adds fuel to the burning dumpster fire of political threads.


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## Lexiand (Jul 5, 2018)

Its because 

A: People wants to force an opinion on people.
B: People actually wants to have a genuine discussion about the issue.
C: Trolls


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## Crimcyan (Jul 5, 2018)

Because furries are dumb and cant be trusted with internet.
Ban furries from internet 2018
One vote me for president is one less furry on the internet :V

Vote Crimary Crimson today!

I have no clue wtf im doing rn


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## Mach (Jul 5, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> I believe Yaka already explained to you why he supports Kathorix's server for it's well managed political channel, and not his stance on pedophiles, on a previous thread.
> 
> forums.furaffinity.net: Haven't these legislators been at this long enough?


Why support it at all? Do you not think that Kothorix is somewhat suspect to have a stance like that? If someone in the real world ran anything, whether is it a business or organization, and had opinions like Kothorix's on pedophilia, would want to be associated with them and recommend them to people?

I would hope not.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jul 5, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> I believe Yaka already explained to you why he supports Kathorix's server for it's well managed political channel, and not his stance on pedophiles, on a previous thread.
> 
> forums.furaffinity.net: Haven't these legislators been at this long enough?



MY old thread no less!  I was not expecting to reopen this particular wound (the Kothorix discussion that is) quite so fast.

@Yakamaru @Mach  Since the last discussion was a little too recent, if the two of you have more to say on the issue you MAY want to take it up in private.  In the meantime I'll investigate the issue of "Discords with viable political sections" a little more carefully.  If either of you find other good Discords for political talk before I do, go ahead and send a message my way.


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## Crimcyan (Jul 5, 2018)

Ginza said:


> And please, do not turn this thread into a 15 page dumpster fire. Let’s be respectful, and have a serious discussion. We can’t ignore the fact that we’ve lost many friendly members because of the politics. We can’t ignore that people are threatened and harassed because of these threads. We can’t ignore that they tear us apart.


Well the most important thing is you tried :V

There is already some fires starting, I can feel the flames warming up my cold icy soul


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## Mach (Jul 5, 2018)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> MY old thread no less!  I was not expecting to reopen this particular wound (the Kothorix discussion that is) quite so fast.
> 
> @Yakamaru @Mach  Since the last discussion was a little too recent, if the two of you have more to say on the issue you MAY want to take it up in private.  In the meantime I'll investigate the issue of "Discords with viable political sections" a little more carefully.  If either of you find other good Discords for political talk before I do, go ahead and send a message my way.


I apologize. I have said all I needed to on the subject. People will do what they want.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 5, 2018)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> MY old thread no less!  I was not expecting to reopen this particular wound (the Kothorix discussion that is) quite so fast.
> 
> @Yakamaru @Mach  Since the last discussion was a little too recent, if the two of you have more to say on the issue you MAY want to take it up in private.  In the meantime I'll investigate the issue of "Discords with viable political sections" a little more carefully.  If either of you find other good Discords for political talk before I do, go ahead and send a message my way.


Ye. I've been on political-oriented Discords before so I was thinking of doing some digging on the topic and could give you a couple of options at least.

Top Furs is a server I've already mentioned. Hmm, let me see if I can find some more that's actually slightly populated..


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## Kyr (Jul 5, 2018)

Balskarr said:


> As much as I'd hate to break this to you Ginza but this thread only adds fuel to the burning dumpster fire of political threads.


Maybe this thread can become THE burning dumpster fire of political threads.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 5, 2018)

I hope so too. I like a good dumpster fire.


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## Sarachaga (Jul 5, 2018)

Beats me.
To be fair, I enjoy a good political discussion as much as anyone, but there's way too many threads around and most of them end up being dumpster fires. Wouldn't it be great to have the possibility to block threads like this?


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## Yakamaru (Jul 5, 2018)

Sarachaga said:


> Beats me.
> To be fair, I enjoy a good political discussion as much as anyone, but there's way too many threads around and most of them end up being dumpster fires. Wouldn't it be great to have the possibility to block threads like this?


FAF *had* a subforum called Rants and Raves, but got deleted. Shame, really. Could easily have it returned and only make it possible for those who wants to see the subforum have access to it. That way you can limit the shit to one subsection of the forum.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 5, 2018)

Because I'm allergic to stupid. :V


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jul 5, 2018)

Sarachaga said:


> Beats me.
> To be fair, I enjoy a good political discussion as much as anyone, but there's way too many threads around and most of them end up being dumpster fires. Wouldn't it be great to have the possibility to block threads like this?


We gotta be very careful when we start blocking things due to content.. as what may look like a flame war to one, my be an intelligent debate to some others.


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## Ramjet (Jul 5, 2018)

Meh human nature really....

There are a few of us that like politics as a hobby, hence why I think it crosses over in general discussion...
We can take it too far sometimes...



Spoiler



Ok, all the time


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 5, 2018)

Getting yelled at by cute, yiffable cartoon faces turns me on.


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## Kyr (Jul 5, 2018)

It's my fetish too.


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## Eli Wintershade (Jul 5, 2018)

Simple. People want to be heard and feel validated in their opinions everywhere, and that includes furry fourms. That's why I usually stay to DM, or in the more humorous topics. Alot less excitable people waiting for you to disagree so they can pull you in a 40 miniute conversation about nothing in the end.


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## Kyr (Jul 5, 2018)

Eli Wintershade said:


> Simple. People want to be heard and feel validated in their opinions everywhere, and that includes furry fourms. That's why I usually stay to DM, or in the more humorous topics. Alot less excitable people waiting for you to disagree so they can pull you in a 40 miniute conversation about nothing in the end.


I don't really feel it's a question of validation or attention as others have stated. When it comes to politics people will end up discussing things relevant to the fabric of society. These things are of critical importance and obviously no one wants to create conditions that would be detrimental to society, it's why people get so heated over these things. They're arguing about things that will alter the quality of life for potentially millions of people, and they're things that need to be discussed publicly.


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## Ginza (Jul 5, 2018)

I would reply to everyone individually, but that would take far too much time. Regardless, I assure all of you that I have read your posts thoroughly.

So it seems most people support political threads. I guess then it’s likely just me being bitchy. Just figured some people might be a little on board with the idea that it’s ridiculous that we get more people participating in irrelevant debate than we do people actually talking about the fandom.

It’s just frustrating to me. Everyone here should know I’m not biting your heads off for debating- I love debate. Hell, all of you should know that (especially you older folks on the forums). My point isn’t to ban political threads, but rather, to beg the question of whether or not such discussions are truly appropriate for these forums. Furthermore, would it kill members to actually talk literally anywhere other than dumpster fires? It’s pretty sad to see the same three people in forum games, and the rest arguing over Trump for the 6,000th time.


While I’m all for jokes and shitposting (I love doing it too), I’d like for several people here to take my genuine question a bit more seriously.

Also, slow clap for the Kothorix debate, literally proving my point that we can’t have nice things :’) gg


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 5, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Getting yelled at by cute, yiffable cartoon faces turns me on.


I'm not going to yell at you anymore


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> I would reply to everyone individually, but that would take far too much time. Regardless, I assure all of you that I have read your posts thoroughly.
> 
> So it seems most people support political threads. I guess then it’s likely just me being bitchy. Just figured some people might be a little on board with the idea that it’s ridiculous that we get more people participating in irrelevant debate than we do people actually talking about the fandom.
> 
> ...



We've gone a bit far recently, I agree. I expect things to die down a bit for a while, especially since I'm tired of them atm. 

However, I think we're all learning more about each other and how to get along with each other better. 

And quite frankly, here, just about any thread that is remotely a serious subject can turn into a fire. Hopefully we keep improving though, but we need to be vigilant in encouraging people to engage in civil debate, not attacks and insults.


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## GarthTheWereWolf (Jul 6, 2018)

There always has been and always will be political threads on this forum. While we're all (I assume at least) interested in cartoon animal people to some degree, we're also all people that have to live in the real world. And since politics has a major influence on our lives it is only natural that people have passionate opinions on the subjects, and given that this is a comfortable environment among peers people enjoy talking about these issues with one another here.

I myself generally choose to abstain from political threads unless its a niche subject I'm passionate about (generally medicine related) or something regarding my religion I feel should be defended because I can't be arsed to invest the psychic energy to wade in on these heavy subjects. I have enough stressful things in my life, so I like to stick to forum games where I can post light-hearted, silly things that make people laugh.

That said. Personally, I enjoy reading the political threads on this forum. I think it is very entertaining and fun to see everyone's opinion on these things and I think the forum would be a much duller place without them. I think people here just need to remember that while you can disagree on a subject, you should still try to be nice to one another. At the end of the day you're just shouting into the wind by posting on a furry forum. Unclench your buttholes, relax a bit, and just have fun. <:


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Mach said:


> Why support it at all? Do you not think that Kothorix is somewhat suspect to have a stance like that? If someone in the real world ran anything, whether is it a business or organization, and had opinions like Kothorix's on pedophilia, would want to be associated with them and recommend them to people?
> 
> I would hope not.



Well, if you actually watch his video, it is fairly well presented.

ETA: yeah, okay, I didn't post the video, because that's just too much for this thread XD


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Well, if you actually watch his video, it is fairly well presented.
> 
> ETA: yeah, okay, I didn't post the video, because that's just too much for this thread XD


A. The part of the brain responsible for "Hot Decisions", decisions affected by emotion or snap judgement, is grossly undeveloped around 16. People at that age are physically thinking more with their emotions that reason unless they are given time to ponder a decision and can remove emotions from the equation. By 18 that part of the brain appears substantially developed to the point law has come to the general agreement that it would serve as a good age to draw the line. By 20 someone is well on their way to having fully developed hot judgement capabilities, and is fully capable of understanding the inherent power imbalance and lack of decision making ability involved in having sex with a minor. There is no fucking reason someone in their 20s should be dating or having sex with a 16 year old. Sexual decisions by minors are made under duress of their own emotions, at the expense of rationality. That makes adults having sex with minors inherently exploitative, and lacking of consent.

The "age of sexual maturity" is a pretty bullshit term. If we use a scientific standpoint, it means the age at which a person is capable of having sex to reproduce. That means early teens, which is before even the "Cold Decisions" parts of the brain are fully developed. 



Spoiler



. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






This is the second time you have defended pedophilia. Non offending pedophiles need mandatory therapy to address their paraphalia for their own well being and the greater safety of society. It should continue to carry the stigma, but treatment should be improved and put into practice. Offending pedophiles need to be locked the fuck up, and I'm not going to cry if someone shoots a pedophile they caught in the act of molesting a minor.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> A. The part of the brain responsible for "Hot Decisions", decisions affected by emotion or snap judgement, is grossly undeveloped around 16. People at that age are physically thinking more with their emotions that reason unless they are given time to ponder a decision and can remove emotions from the equation. By 18 that part of the brain appears substantially developed to the point law has come to the general agreement that it would serve as a good age to draw the line. By 20 someone is well on their way to having fully developed hot judgement capabilities, and is fully capable of understanding the inherent power imbalance and lack of decision making ability involved in having sex with a minor. There is no fucking reason someone in their 20s should be dating or having sex with a 16 year old. Sexual decisions by minors are made under duress of their own emotions, at the expense of rationality. That makes adults having sex with minors inherently exploitative, and lacking of consent.
> 
> The "age of sexual maturity" is a pretty bullshit term. If we use a scientific standpoint, it means the age at which a person is capable of having sex to reproduce. That means early teens, which is before even the "Cold Decisions" parts of the brain are fully developed.
> 
> ...



Right, and what makes you think I'm defending pedophilia? I've never defended pedophilia and never will. 

Not only did I not defend pedophilia, I didn't defend people having sex with minors - which by the way, isn't even pedophila. It's ephebophilia. 

You like talking a whole lot about things I haven't said, and if you keep saying things like "I'm defending pedophilia," I'm going to have to block you and add you to my rapidly growing list of trolls. 

And on a thread about having too many arguments, too! *slow clap*


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## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

:thinking:

And the thread has now devolved into whether pedophilia is okay? The hell?

Could we not just make a separate topic on this?


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> :thinking:
> 
> And the thread has now devolved into whether pedophilia is okay? The hell?



Idk @_@ all I said was the video was "fairly well presented." I didn't even specify whether or not I agree with it.


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## Sarachaga (Jul 6, 2018)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> We gotta be very careful when we start blocking things due to content.. as what may look like a flame war to one, my be an intelligent debate to some others.


You are right actually. There's some pretty level headed folks that post on these threads too ( like Troj for example who always post researched and relevant answers ) but at the same time there's a bunch of people who seem to just be out for blood.  But the thing is, I tend to have a minimal interest in these threads. Hence it'd be great to have at least a dedicated section that I could actively avoid


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

What, no criticism for the fact that I just got called a pedophike supporter? Lovely crowd y'all turning into...


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

This is not the only thread on which you took an interesting stand on the issue @BahgDaddy 

It's becoming a pattern.


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## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

For the record, having to hit CTRL+Shift+N just to read full conversations is a minor inconvenience.

I humbly petition to have this inconvenience removed for the benefit of my personal browsing experience.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> This is not the only thread on which you took an interesting stand on the issue @BahgDaddy
> 
> It's becoming a pattern.



1. Pedophiles aren't necessarily bad people. Pedophilia as a paraphilia probably indiscriminately targets all people. Hence, my opinion is that it is reasonably well distributed throughout the entire population. 

2. Pedophiles are not necessarily sex offenders. They become sex offenders if they target a kid and abuse them (have physical sexual contact with them in any way).

3. People assume pedophiles will immediately target kids, groom them, attempt to molest them, try to rationalize their behavior, etc. That's not necessarily the case. It's very important to remove "pedophile" with the connotation "mentally deranged fat ugly guy in a basement with secret porn stashes." 

4. Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children, but that doesn't mean they're ever going to act on those desires, especially since society knows it's wrong and imposes harsh penalties for ever acting on these desires. 

5. Child sex predators are also not necessarily pedophiles. They may be doing it because it's exciting, gives them a power rush, they enjoy breaking taboos, or because they're pedophiles who can't control themselves, in which case it's very important to intervene and keep them away from children. Personally I propose neutering for them. For some reason this is considered inhumane, but since pedophiles are almost always males, I think we can safely blame dysfunctions in sex drive in the naturally reproductive male. 

6. If all you do is label pedophiles as sick weirdos fucks who need to be immediately institutionalized, and attack anyone who remotely views it from an objective perspective instead of a knee jerk reaction, you will not encourage them to actually seek help for their problems. 

7. As for me, I have a close family member who was sexually abused much of her life, and it's taken her a very, very long time to gain enough self esteem to do basically anything. So I absolutely loathe offending pedophiles, and your insinuations make me want to physically harm you.


----------



## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> 7. As for me, I have a close family member who was sexually abused much of her life, and it's taken her a very, very long time to gain enough self esteem to do basically anything. So I absolutely loathe offending pedophiles, *and your insinuations make me want to physically harm you*.



I’m sorry, but this is incredibly concerning. Especially given that this is a stranger on the internet.


And again, this is literally why we can’t have nice things.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

I'm just having some fun, it really doesn't matter.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> I’m sorry, but this is incredibly concerning. Especially given that this is a stranger on the internet.
> 
> 
> And again, this is literally why we can’t have nice things.



Sorry, someone is accusing me of being a pedo defender, and I'm the bad guy?


----------



## WolfyAmbassador (Jul 6, 2018)

This thread has gotten so creepy. wtf


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> It’s just frustrating to me. Everyone here should know I’m not biting your heads off for debating- I love debate. Hell, all of you should know that (especially you older folks on the forums). My point isn’t to ban political threads, but rather, to beg the question of whether or not such discussions are truly appropriate for these forums. Furthermore, would it kill members to actually talk literally anywhere other than dumpster fires? It’s pretty sad to see the same three people in forum games, and the rest arguing over Trump for the 6,000th time.


Really, it's up to the users themselves to stop such threads from becoming dumpster fires. It just seems that certain people like to use certain things as a gotya to label others here as morally reprehensible, as Mach did when he brought up Kothorix in this thread.

If people stop seeing debates as arguments between "good" and "bad" people that need to be "won" and simply as an exchange of ideas that should be approached and considered respectfully political threads would go a lot better. (look who's talking right. XD)


----------



## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> Really, it's up to the users themselves to stop such threads from becoming dumpster fires. It just seems that certain people like to use certain things as a gotya to label others here as morally reprehensible, as Mach did when he brought up Kothorix in this thread.
> 
> If people stop seeing debates as arguments between "good" and "bad" people that need to be "won" and simply as an exchange of ideas that should be approached and considered respectfully political threads would go a lot better. (look who's talking right. XD)



Hmm I actually completely agree with you here. Well said.




BahgDaddy said:


> Sorry, someone is accusing me of being a pedo defender, and I'm the bad guy?



I didn’t call you the bad guy. I just asked for everyone to... oh I don’t know... not argue in a thread asking why we argue so much?


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Hmm I actually completely agree with you here. Well said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know, i was just pissed off with what i saw as a certain flawed political mentality in that other thread and responded poorly. In the sense that i didn't have the energy to pick apart those same disjointed and narrow lines of reasoning and just decided to have a laugh at these people's expense.

Feel the need to clarify that.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 6, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> 1. Pedophiles aren't necessarily bad people. Pedophilia as a paraphilia probably indiscriminately targets all people. Hence, my opinion is that it is reasonably well distributed throughout the entire population.
> 
> 2. Pedophiles are not necessarily sex offenders. They become sex offenders if they target a kid and abuse them (have physical sexual contact with them in any way).
> 
> ...



I mean, there is a difference between indignation and publicly voicing desires to harm somebody. I don't think the latter really helps the situation, just makes you look worse.


----------



## Dongding (Jul 6, 2018)

It sucks when the big juicy wet nasty pedophile ball rolls around these parts because I believe in letting people have the dignity of being given a chance first before judging them too.
Let them show without a doubt what a truly selfish horrible mistake of nature they are before we bag the person up and fire them into the sun. Pedophiles are tragic monsters.

As for debate, it takes something really juicy to lure me in. I've genuinely participated in about four since I've been here. Usually defending something being ironically misunderstood or attacked by internet white knights in their tight whites, making the world right from the comfort of their computer chairs. The world is so easy to understand when a person can just read something on a screen getting only a portion of one side of an argument, be completely absorbed in something they have nothing to do with and have no business discussing, then ignoring all physical and cultural barriers and limitations of the situation (Which by the way are incredibly important for context and often simple human compassion in regards to the people actually living the reality of their situation, whichever side of you internet argument they happen to fall under) and continue to go off with your single or possibly handfuls of biased internet nonsense articles hand picked for flavor.

That's why I generally stick to arguing philosophy. When you're right it transcends the need for proof and often even the argument itself. Not only that, but generally the only people who don't agree with me on philosophical matters are unbalanced actualretards anyways, so it doesn't bother me that they go back to licking glass or whatever once we've finished discussing the matter.


----------



## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> I know, i was just pissed off with what i saw as a certain flawed political mentality in that other thread and responded poorly. In the sense that i didn't have the energy to pick apart those same disjointed and narrow lines of reasoning and just decided to have a laugh at these people's expense.
> 
> Feel the need to clarify that.



Oh damn I forgot, you’re blocked by him. That last part wasn’t for you- I quoted bahg, but it doesn’t show up.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Oh damn I forgot, you’re blocked by him. That last part wasn’t for you- I quoted bahg, but it doesn’t show up.


XD

As i said, it's a minor inconvenience.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> I mean, there is a difference between indignation and publicly voicing desires to harm somebody. I don't think the latter really helps the situation, just makes you look worse.



Ehh, at this point I don't really care about what people here think of me. I'd have to actually respect people's opinion here in order for that to work, and over time, I've been given less and less reason to take anyone here seriously.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Also, for the record. I kinda like Bahg, was one of the few people that defended him against zoophile accusations because of conversations i've had with him in the past.

It's a shame when emotion overtakes logic.


----------



## Infrarednexus (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> Really, it's up to the users themselves to stop such threads from becoming dumpster fires. It just seems that certain people like to use certain things as a gotya to label others here as morally reprehensible, as Mach did when he brought up Kothorix in this thread.


Agreed. It's one thing to debate someone on an issue, but another to shift the goalposts in a direction that gives them the opportunity to try and "make and example" out of them. This tactic is an act of aggression fueled by a negative view of their opponent, not civility or rationality. 

I should mention that the political forum link that Ginza posted has people that display much more civil manners of debate and discussion. I recommend following her link and signing up to get an understanding of how people debate when respect is established and when there is always a moderator present.


----------



## Dongding (Jul 6, 2018)

stuhp maek pulitidle thredzd bhgggaghhdagdhy.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> I’m sorry, but this is incredibly concerning. Especially given that this is a stranger on the internet.
> 
> 
> And again, this is literally why we can’t have nice things.


Remember when I said guns weren't the problem? Ya this shit is the problem.

@BahgDaddy

We don't treat Sociopaths like they aren't in real need of serious treatment to function. Some mental illness NEEDS to be treated, especially if it puts kids in jeopardy. Normalising it enables people to not seek treatment, which is definitely not good.

And trying to physically hurt me would be a bad idea.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Remember when I said guns weren't the problem? Ya this shit is the problem.
> 
> @BahgDaddy
> 
> ...



Don't worry, I don't want the lawyer fees. That would really be a hassle. 

Got any studies proving pedophiles are sociopaths? Because now we're talking about something that is, as far as I can tell, completely unrelated to the current subject. 

Now than, perhaps you can be a better member of this community by helping keep threads on topic and not trying to derail them with moral vigilantism. You managed to turn a thread about why we argue so much, into an argument, so well done, good job, try not to do it again.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Here's an article, should anyone care to actually do some reading and stop running their mouths like a child. 

Psychopathology and Personality Traits of Pedophiles | Psychiatric Times


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Don't worry, I don't want the lawyer fees. That would really be a hassle.
> 
> Got any studies proving pedophiles are sociopaths? Because now we're talking about something that is, as far as I can tell, completely unrelated to the current subject.
> 
> Now than, perhaps you can be a better member of this community by helping keep threads on topic and not trying to derail them with moral vigilantism. You managed to turn a thread about why we argue so much, into an argument, so well done, good job, try not to do it again.



I was mostly calling you out for wondering why people don't engage you civily when you regularly use ad-hominem attacks and then defend the normalization of pedophilia. 

And lawyers fees would be the least of your worries...


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I was mostly calling you out for wondering why people don't engage you civily when you regularly use ad-hominem attacks and then defend the normalization of pedophilia.
> 
> And lawyers fees would be the least of your worries...



Please point out where I've defended the normalization of pedophiles? Your accusations are defamatory in nature and actually bordering on illegal.


----------



## Skychickens (Jul 6, 2018)

So many sites say no, so there is a need for an outlet. Since this one doesn’t have that ruke, people are gonna dump it here. Shame really. Many want to have a civil conversation about it and they turn into flaming pits. 

I usually just wanna put in my two cents and be done with it. I attempt very hard not to argue. I always leave when I feel it’s going that way. 

I mean it’s a little weird. 

Sometimes. 

I don’t make them. 

I’m not sure on that one. It is pretty weird honestly. I like those a lot.


----------



## Mach (Jul 6, 2018)

I just want to respectfully respond these statements.


Kyr said:


> It just seems that certain people like to use certain things as a gotya to label others here as morally reprehensible, as Mach did when he brought up Kothorix in this thread.


If you read what I wrote, I did not label Yakamaru as morally reprehensible. I merely question the wisdom of recommending Kothorix's server. He recommended the server again, after we had a discussion about why it should not be recommended. That is not a "gotya", it just being concerned about directing users toward a potentially risky server. Yakamaru clearly recognizes the risks now because he recommended another server and pledged to find other political server in lieu of Kothorix's server.


Infrarednexus said:


> Agreed. It's one thing to debate someone on an issue, but another to shift the goalposts in a direction that gives them the opportunity to try and "make and example" out of them. This tactic is an act of aggression fueled by a negative view of their opponent, not civility or rationality.


As I mentioned, I posted an interjection to something that was said about a relevant matter. I did not shift any goalposts. There is nothing wrong with pointing out a bad idea.


----------



## Infrarednexus (Jul 6, 2018)

Mach said:


> As I mentioned, I posted an interjection to something that was said about a relevant matter. I did not shift any goalposts. There is nothing wrong with pointing out a bad idea.


Of course there's nothing wrong with pointing out something you feel is a bad idea. It's unfortunate though that things later moved to discussing pedophilia and sparking animosity between multiple users. Hopefully we remain on the original subject, as this thread was intended for.


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 6, 2018)

Another thing that I thought of recently about that political forum that Ginza posted. Is that people who are non-experts, when it comes to politics are, more easily intimidated by someone who could, easily destroy their arguments.


----------



## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> Another thing that I thought of recently about that political forum that Ginza posted. Is that people who are non-experts, when it comes to politics are, more easily intimidated by someone who could, easily destroy their arguments.



That’s a fair argument, but if you’re not well read on the subject, why exactly _are _you debating then? It just makes more sense that someone who is engaged in debate _anywhere _should 100% know what they’re talking about. There are no “experts” if you’ve researched profusely. Which, tbh, you should have done already. Otherwise, how can you possibly know your position on a subject?


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> That’s a fair argument, but if you’re not well read on the subject, why exactly _are _you debating then? It just makes more sense that someone who is engaged in debate _anywhere _should 100% know what they’re talking about. There are no “experts” if you’ve researched profusely. Which, tbh, you should have done already. Otherwise, how can you possibly know your position on a subject?


I did not want post this phrase since I do wish to demean anyone who are into politics here. It is the "big fish in a small pond" mentality since it easier to argue against a non-expert than someone who is a genius. I also understand that it is way relief tension since people can find others who share the same views. Edit: If their is something I do not know about I wait and observe. Truth is I do not know everything I like to learn before making a conclusion.


----------



## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 6, 2018)

4-page dumpster fire so far, at least we tried.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

Oakie-Dokie said:


> 4-page dumpster fire so far, at least we tried.



Not very well.


----------



## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 6, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Not very well.


well I mean I've just been watching occasionally, I'd rather not be flammable trash at the moment


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> That’s a fair argument, but if you’re not well read on the subject, why exactly _are _you debating then? It just makes more sense that someone who is engaged in debate _anywhere _should 100% know what they’re talking about. There are no “experts” if you’ve researched profusely. Which, tbh, you should have done already. Otherwise, how can you possibly know your position on a subject?





ZeroVoidTime said:


> I did not want post this phrase since I do wish to demean anyone who are into politics here. It is the "big fish in a small pond" mentality since it easier to argue against a non-expert than someone who is a genius. I also understand that it is way relief tension since people can find others who share the same views. Edit: If their is something I do not know about I wait and observe. Truth is I do not know everything I like to learn before making a conclusion.


Keep in mind that even experts can and will be wrong too. Could be everything from using ideologically inclined sources/courses/education to sources/courses/education that have an agenda and presents it in a manner that is appealing in a specific manner.

Just because someone is an expert it does not mean that what they say shouldn't have their legitimacy questioned. Strong convictions/beliefs require strong evidence/arguments to change someone's mind over time.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Keep in mind that even experts can and will be wrong too. Could be everything from using ideologically inclined sources/courses/education to sources/courses/education that have an agenda and presents it in a manner that is appealing in a specific manner.
> 
> Just because someone is an expert it does not mean that what they say shouldn't have their legitimacy questioned. Strong convictions/beliefs require strong evidence/arguments to change someone's mind over time.


#BenCarson2020


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> #BenCarson2020


Is that a sarcastic #, or a genuine one? I honestly can't tell anymore on these forums.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 6, 2018)

Can we have an Dark Syde Phil appreciation thread? In it we discuss all things DarkSydePhil. Like his gout, and who wants to yiff his greasy pert ass more. If Phil had a fursona, I think he might be a sloth, I bet it'd be cute.

"Bugged fursona mechanics, I paid the artist $10 and it didn't come out at all like I wanted!" -Phil the Femboy Sloth


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## Simo (Jul 6, 2018)

Maybe lack of imagination, to a degree? Politics, in a way, are rather low hanging conversational fruit, especially in today's charged political climate. That, and I think it also makes people feel as if their lives have more meaning, in a certain way, even if that meaning is derived by structuring one's time, arguing politics on a furry site. But hey, could be worse, you might be in an alley, smoking crack!

I think, too, that it's especially appealing to those in their 20s's. I'm not sure why, but it seems that the majority of posters who feel the most persistent 'need to be right' tend to fall into the early 20-something range, especially, say 20-25. I think this is an age one wishes and even feels this need to pontificate on their discoveries in life to date, a developmental stage, of sorts, and because many furs are in this age group, you'll see them locking horns.

You could almost do a nature documentary; it generally seems to be males, trying to assert dominance over each other; in some ways, there's a very primal aspect to it.


----------



## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

Simo said:


> Maybe lack of imagination, to a degree? Politics, in a way, are rather low hanging conversational fruit, especially in today's charged political climate. That, and I think it also makes people feel as if their lives have more meaning, in a certain way, even if that meaning is derived by structuring one's time, arguing politics on a furry site. But hey, could be worse, you might be in an alley, smoking crack!
> 
> I think, too, that it's especially appealing to those in their 20s's. I'm not sure why, but it seems that the majority of posters who feel the most persistent 'need to be right' tend to fall into the early 20-something range, especially, say 20-25. I think this is an age one wishes and even feels this need to pontificate on their discoveries in life to date, a developmental stage, of sorts, and because many furs are in this age group, you'll see them locking horns.
> 
> You could almost do a nature documentary; it generally seems to be males, trying to assert dominance over each other; in some ways, there's a very primal aspect to it.



That’s quite insightful Simo, I appreciate your input, and agree.


----------



## Simo (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> That’s quite insightful Simo, I appreciate your input, and agree.



Thanks! It is something I've observed, over time, maybe the past 10 years, on various furry forums? But I think among males, at around 20/college age, there kicks in this 'need' to prove one's mental competency/reasoning skills/debate tactics in whatever 'arena' is open to them. For me, it might have been a bit earlier, might have started at age 16, but my 'need' to discuss politics and be right about them was strongest around then, into my 20s. Of course this can happen at any age, but I think is most acute, at this time, or, perhaps, it is the first time it manifests itself, and can be like some sort of 'rite of passage'.

But the animals locking horns and butting heads comparison  seemed a good metaphor, and not just for a furry site. 

In so many arguments, there seems to be a background aspect, psychologically, in which it doesn't matter what is being argued, but only who seems to be 'winning'. I would say that many 'political' threads are less about the topics at hand, than underlying psychological satisfactions from playing a sort of 'game', among the members who take place in them.

I'll have to expand this idea sometime; it stems, in part from Eric Berne and a field of Psychology called Transnational Analysis, and his book, "Games People Play". Maybe one day, I shall write a sociological/anthropological/psychological study of furries : P


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

You may ignore politics, but politics won't ignore you. 

Whether active, passive or proactive, politics play a role in our daily lives.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Mach said:


> I just want to respectfully respond these statements.
> If you read what I wrote, I did not label Yakamaru as morally reprehensible. I merely question the wisdom of recommending Kothorix's server. He recommended the server again, after we had a discussion about why it should not be recommended. That is not a "gotya", it just being concerned about directing users toward a potentially risky server. Yakamaru clearly recognizes the risks now because he recommended another server and pledged to find other political server in lieu of Kothorix's server.


You're right, I'd only half remembered what you'd said. I only recalled that the Koth stuff was directed at Yak, that I disagreed with some of the assertions you made within it and i missed that Yak mentioned his server earlier in the thread.

"Using a Discord server run by someone defending pedophiles and pedophilia is not a good idea."

I took issue with this, as it's writing off an entire community due to the actions of one member (yes he's the owner and that carries more weight but you know what I mean). As for his "defense of pedophiles", from what i've heard so far all he's done is say pedophiles are human and mention that the legal age of consent isn't standardized throughout the world. I don't see that as being enough to write him, let alone the community he's fostered, off.

Yeah, he isn't actually defending pedophilia in the slightest here. He actively condemned child molesters. What problems do you actually have with what he said?


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Simo said:


> Thanks! It is something I've observed, over time, maybe the past 10 years, on various furry forums? But I think among males, at around 20/college age, there kicks in this 'need' to prove one's mental competency/reasoning skills/debate tactics in whatever 'arena' is open to them. For me, it might have been a bit earlier, might have started at age 16, but my 'need' to discuss politics and be right about them was strongest around then, into my 20s. Of course this can happen at any age, but I think is most acute, at this time, or, perhaps, it is the first time it manifests itself, and can be like some sort of 'rite of passage'.


From my pov, it's these 20/college age kids that i'm arguing against. Or rather, the ideological framework they seem to have picked up (although it's present in people of all ages). It's naive, self righteous and often times bolstered by the arrogance of youth. Personally i don't feel the need to prove myself. It's not about dick waving, it's about philosophy and what it could lead to. People on a furry forum are still voters, and they still have a political voice that's just as valid as anyone else's. I just can't keep quiet when I see aspects of a worldview i deem as actively harmful to societal progress being spread and supported.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 6, 2018)

I'm just here for da show.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> I'm just here for da show.


Is it a tragedy or a comedy?


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 6, 2018)

I guess it really depends on who you ask. I tend to see it as a comedy, but that's just my style. I'm aware that Knuckles, unlike Sonic, doesn't chuckle, some people take that to heart, and I personally find that to be a tragedy. Turns out, in the end, it's both. What a twist.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> I guess it really depends on who you ask. I tend to see it as a comedy, but that's just my style. I'm aware that Knuckles, unlike Sonic, doesn't chuckle, some people take that to heart, and I personally find that to be a tragedy. Turns out, in the end, it's both. What a twist.


Hah, yet it was a twist i saw coming. 

You've always got to try and see the funny side, think Eric Idle said it best.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 6, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Keep in mind that even experts can and will be wrong too. Could be everything from using ideologically inclined sources/courses/education to sources/courses/education that have an agenda and presents it in a manner that is appealing in a specific manner.
> 
> Just because someone is an expert it does not mean that what they say shouldn't have their legitimacy questioned. Strong convictions/beliefs require strong evidence/arguments to change someone's mind over time.


Mkay Breitbart


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Mkay Breitbart







Just when i thought John Barrowman couldn't get any hotter, they went and put him in that uniform...


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 6, 2018)

ABLEH BLUH


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> Just when i thought John Barrowman couldn't get any hotter, they went and put him in that uniform.


I was just saying that Yaka talking about legitimacy is a little humorous with how many times he's shared Breitbart articles.


----------



## Infrarednexus (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> Just when i thought John Barrowman couldn't get any hotter, they went and put him in that uniform...


This was one of my favorite musical comedies. The puppet pigeons get me every time.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> Just when i thought John Barrowman couldn't get any hotter, they went and put him in that uniform...


Fucking lol!

SPRIIINGTIME, FOR HITLEEER!


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I was just saying that Yaka talking about legitimacy is a little humorous with how many times he's shared Breitbart articles.


I don't read them, so i have no idea about their legitimacy or lack thereof.

I do know someone from the modern left who thought i was Alt Right sent me a Breitbart article because they thought i'd be more willing to accept the nonsense they were spouting if it came from that source though. XD


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> I don't read them, so i have no idea about their legitimacy or lack thereof.
> 
> I do know someone from the modern left who thought i was Alt Right sent me a Breitbart article because they thought i'd be more willing to accept the nonsense they were spouting if it came from that source though. XD


Basically if you want a "news source" where everything wrong in the world is caused by muslims, immigrants, and black people, Breitbart is the site for you lol


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> I don't read them, so i have no idea about their legitimacy or lack thereof.
> 
> I do know someone from the modern left who thought i was Alt Right sent me a Breitbart article because they thought i'd be more willing to accept the nonsense they were spouting if it came from that source though. XD


Breitbart most of the time cite Left-wing sources such as MSNBC and CNN. It's basically a Right-wing news outlet that is independent, though on its way to be considered part of the MSM. 

Not uncommon for them to be just full of shit like CNN but spun from a Right-wing perspective.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Basically if you want a "news source" where everything wrong in the world is caused by muslims, immigrants, and black people, Breitbart is the site for you lol


Eh, all the woke kids know that everything wrong in the world is caused by water fluoridation.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> I have to disagree. Zombies are to blame for all the worlds problems, not water content.
> 
> I can't enjoy a single day when there's a Goddamn zombie around. Call me necrophobic, but I just don't trust them.


Such blatant necrophobia is completely uncalled for, studies show that a strict vegan diet can cure zombies of their addiction to brains. These are poor people afflicted with a debilitating disease, not the ravenous monsters your bigoted beliefs depict them as!

#ZombieLivesMatter


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## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Basically if you want a "news source" where everything wrong in the world is caused by muslims, immigrants, and black people, Breitbart is the site for you lol


What's wrong with this article?
https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...at-american-businesses-hit-by-metals-tariffs/
I see no problems with it. Unless you want to point out what in it is wrong and why?


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## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 6, 2018)

dumpsterfireeee


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## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Oakie-Dokie said:


> dumpsterfireeee
> View attachment 35175


ALL HAIL ELMO!


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 6, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> What's wrong with this article?
> https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...at-american-businesses-hit-by-metals-tariffs/
> I see no problems with it. Unless you want to point out what in it is wrong and why?


There are some legitamate stories. That doesn't mean it should be used as a source when most of it is buased propaganda. They literally did a story about how Obama supports ISIS for christ's sake


----------



## Ginza (Jul 6, 2018)

Again, can we drop the debate and personal insults? We’re not five years old.

If you have nothing of value to contribute to this conversation, maybe just move off the topic.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> What's wrong with this article?
> https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...at-american-businesses-hit-by-metals-tariffs/
> I see no problems with it. Unless you want to point out what in it is wrong and why?


Breitbart is pulling numbers out of their ass and not reading the breakdowns of the subfields.
www.bls.gov: Metal and Plastic Machine Workers : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

I was joking about carson btw.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 6, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Again, can we drop the debate and personal insults? We’re not five years old.
> 
> If you have nothing of value to contribute to this conversation, maybe just move off the topic.


It's not personal insults. I see Yaka debating around trying to turn people to his worldview and I think it's a duty to show people the kind of crap he gets his information from so they don't get swayed. And this thread is about politics so it's pretty on topic.


----------



## Kyr (Jul 6, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> But I have played countless video games and seen numerous movies that clearly show that zombies are incompatible with the living world. They refuse to stop eating people and come in massive swarms from the underworld to our world with no job skills or communication abilities. All they do is bite and moan. Soon they will be introducing necro supremecy to our children, turning them into zombies too.
> 
> Have you read the doctrine of Necromancy? Do you have any idea how messed up it is. Those zombies take it literally! How can we allow that sort of witchcraft in the civilized world of the living?


If you had actually played countless zombie video games and seen numerous movies as you claimed, you'd know that vegan zombies eat grains and that they can be trained for menial jobs such as shelf stacking and bar work. Spreading such lies is beyond the pale good sir, how dare you. To add to that, some of the best people i've known have only been able to bite and moan and it worked out very well for them. The "necro supremacy agenda" is something that's only spread by vicious pro life bigots to slur these noble people.

The doctrine of necromancy is a book of peace, necrophobics just like to take the passages about converting every human to the zombie horde out of context to further degrade this beautiful belief system!


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 6, 2018)

Kyr said:


> If you had actually played countless zombie video games and seen numerous movies as you claimed, you'd know that vegan zombies eat grains and that they can be trained for menial jobs such as shelf stacking and bar work. Spreading such lies is beyond the pale good sir, how dare you. To add to that, some of the best people i've known have only been able to bite and moan and it worked out very well for them. The "necro supremacy agenda" is something that's only spread by vicious pro life bigots to slur these noble people.
> 
> The doctrine of necromancy is a book of peace, necrophobics just like to take the passages about converting every human to the zombie horde out of context to further degrade this beautiful belief system!



The bait is strong with this one.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 6, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Breitbart is pulling numbers out of their ass and not reading the breakdowns of the subfields.
> www.bls.gov: Metal and Plastic Machine Workers : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
> 
> I was joking about carson btw.


Those numbers are from 2016, so not exactly viable and up to date, mate. They are also projections from 2016 to 2026, not raw numbers by the month as change is enacted. And no, it doesn't seem they are breaking down subfields. An increase in available jobs however I'd say is a positive thing.
www.bls.gov: Home : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

I wouldn't mind going over shit in more details in DM's or something. But first, sleep.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 6, 2018)

Use this as your guide if you want to link credible source


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 6, 2018)

How is this thread such a mess @_@


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> View attachment 35178
> 
> Use this as your guide if you want to link credible source


mediabiasfactcheck.com: Breitbart - Media Bias/Fact Check

On a more positive note: mediabiasfactcheck.com: Satire - Media Bias/Fact Check


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> View attachment 35178
> 
> Use this as your guide if you want to link credible source


Not suprised where Breitbart is. But I bet someone's gonna be like "reeeeee this is leftist propaganda reeeeee"


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

And I found a new favorite site thanks to my last link.....
Call the Cops – The 27th Most Trusted Site in Public Safety


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## Wolfstin (Jul 7, 2018)

Fuck politics


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Kyr said:


> You're right, I'd only half remembered what you'd said. I only recalled that the Koth stuff was directed at Yak, that I disagreed with some of the assertions you made within it and i missed that Yak mentioned his server earlier in the thread.


Being frank, I was very clear with my words, yet you framed my words as a "gotya" post when I was bringing up a legitimate issue that was not even political. I do not want to accuse you of the trolling you usually engage on threads, but this smacks of it.


Kyr said:


> I took issue with this, as it's writing off an entire community due to the actions of one member (yes he's the owner and that carries more weight but you know what I mean).


You basically acknowledge that he has significantly more control over that community than the members given that he is the owner. In the best case scenario, Kothorix is too ignorant of the fact pedophilia is a condition that can drive a person to engage in behaviors that endanger minors and therefore can not be trusted to guarantee the safety of those in his server. The beliefs he has espoused could serve as a dog-whistle to pedophiles who may view his server as an inviting platform to potentially groom minors. The worst case scenario should be fairly obvious.

The video I posted earlier in this thread has several concerning quotes that I transcribed for your convenience:

"The way I see some people react to them sickens me more than the thought of pedophilia itself." (1:45)

This is comparing the reactions for those disgusted by pedophilia, some of which may be extreme, to the very dangerous paraphalia of pedophilia which cause those that have to seriously harm minors. Most sane people in society would agree pedophilia is concerning than the reaction of those opposed to it.

"The age of consent being at 18 strikes as odd. Shouldn't the age that you're allowed to have sex based on when you reach sexual maturity. Why is it considered such a moral crime and sick thing to like a 16 year old? (3:10)

Pedophilia and ephebophilia are illegal in the United States for a reason. @Misha Bordiga Zahradník , who was one of the users I consulted before writing this to make sure I was not off base, stated these reasons rather succintly:


> A. The part of the brain responsible for "Hot Decisions", decisions affected by emotion or snap judgement, is grossly undeveloped around 16. People at that age are physically thinking more with their emotions that reason unless they are given time to ponder a decision and can remove emotions from the equation. By 18 that part of the brain appears substantially developed to the point law has come to the general agreement that it would serve as a good age to draw the line. By 20 someone is well on their way to having fully developed hot judgement capabilities, and is fully capable of understanding the inherent power imbalance and lack of decision making ability involved in having sex with a minor. There is no fucking reason someone in their 20s should be dating or having sex with a 16 year old. Sexual decisions by minors are made under duress of their own emotions, at the expense of rationality. That makes adults having sex with minors inherently exploitative, and lacking of consent.
> 
> The "age of sexual maturity" is a pretty bullshit term. If we use a scientific standpoint, it means the age at which a person is capable of having sex to reproduce. That means early teens, which is before even the "Cold Decisions" parts of the brain are fully developed.
> 
> ...



"Now, why am I defending pedophiles? The truth is it is not really about pedophiles. The hatred and stigma attached to pedophilia is just one example of a problem in our society and that problem is people taking the letter of the law as an absolute moral authority and at the same time hating someone who so much as disagrees with that divine voice of the law." (4:03)

As stated in the response to the previous quote, we have laws against pedophilia and ephebophilia for very good reasons. Kothorix does not seem to recognize that. Instead, throughout the video, he seems to more concerned with normalizing pedophilia and acting as an apologist for pedophiles.


Kyr said:


> As for his "defense of pedophiles", from what i've heard so far all he's done is say pedophiles are human and mention that the legal age of consent isn't standardized throughout the world. I don't see that as being enough to write him, let alone the community he's fostered, off.


Given what he has said in the video and his reputation as a normalizing influence for pedophilia, I think it is not extreme to avoid recommending this community users. Even @Yakamaru stated in another thread he disagreed with Kothorix's stance on pedophilia, which begs the question why he still recommended the server here a second time.


Yakamaru said:


> And for the record: I don't agree with Kothorix's stance on that shit.


I do not intend this as a gotcha post, but you keep framing this issue as though it is not as concerning as it should be. Everybody should agree we must err on the side of caution when it come to the issue of pedophilia in fandom, however we feel politically.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Being frank, I was very clear with my words, yet you framed my words as a "gotya" post when I was bringing up a legitimate issue that was not even political. I do not want to accuse you of the trolling you usually engage on threads, but this smacks of it.
> 
> You basically acknowledge that he has significantly more control over that community than the members given that he is the owner. In the best case scenario, Kothorix is too ignorant of the fact pedophilia is a condition that can drive a person to engage in behaviors that endanger minors and therefore can not be trusted to guarantee the safety of those in his server. The beliefs he has espoused could serve as a dog-whistle to pedophiles who may view his server as an inviting platform to potentially groom minors. The worst case scenario should be fairly obvious.
> 
> ...


Eh. Yaka has defended peeps like Foxler and tried to tell me the Furry Raiders symbol isn't a nazi one so the moral compass ain't exactly pointing north. I would never join a server ran by an owner with such a disgusting view. I don't care how "open" your server is. If anything people who have terrible beliefs hide behind a veil of tolerance so they don't get in trouble for having such aweful ideas. I've noticed this a lot with people who hold really nasty views.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> I do not intend this as a gotcha post, but you keep framing this issue as though it is not as concerning as it should be. Everybody should agree we must err on the side of caution when it come to the issue of pedophilia in fandom, however we feel politically.


His ability to properly run a Discord server is a separate issue.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

I really don’t know why this is still going. I’d like to beg the question of how the kothorix debate is relevant to my thread.


Thank you @Shane McNair , I appreciate the genuine answers.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> I really don’t know why this is still going. I’d like to beg the question of how the kothorix debate is relevant to my thread.
> 
> 
> Thank you @Shane McNair , I appreciate the genuine answers.


Yaka brought up Koth on the first page because of the politics section on his server. Then someone mentioned he's a pedo supporter and wouldn't ever support a server ran by someone like that. I'd say supporting pedophilia is a view that elicits some of the biggest reactions out of people. Why are there so many politics threads? Because people are getting louder every day. When people like that feel emboldened that it's safe to talk about such views, they will talk about it. And when people come out that have disgusting views, there will be people who come out to refute it. And then it's a back and forth cycle.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> His ability to properly run a Discord server is a separate issue.


If Koth is permissive of adults hitting on 16yo(or younger) members because of his views, then it makes his service unsafe for minors.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> If Koth is permissive of adults hitting on 16yo(or younger) members because of his views, then it makes his service unsafe for minors.


That is a very good point I didn't even think about.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> If Koth is permissive of adults hitting on 16yo(or younger) members because of his views, then it makes his service unsafe for minors.


That I agree on. However I have not seen any indication of him holding that view. Will have to poke him when he's online.


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## HistoricalyIncorrect (Jul 7, 2018)

there are few reason. Starting with people trying to share their opinion, through discussions all way up to common trolls.

Obviously the worst part is when shit hits the fan and people start to insult each other as someone is pressing the delicate spot by talking things that shouldn't be there or someone misundertunding something or simply refusing to accept the facts he disagree with.

Any political discussion with people from 2 different points of view is like a ticking time bomb, unless you finish the talk quickly it will explode into argument. It might not happen when both sides are open minded and have more knowledge than a bread.
I like Hisorical, Cultural, National and Political discussion and i can discuss it for hour, only thing i require is that the other person will not start an argument out of anything. I managed to start few arguments myself and i am usually not happy with it.

Once for example i had discussion with 2 German dudes with time window of hours between them. One man I could see was a man of culture (insert meme here), understood what i meant in subject and also managed to convience me with his arguments to change my point of view on few subject and that doesn't usually happen. Another guy on other hand... let's just say had to be 12, mentally unstable, not very smart or a simple troll as this discussion started with me talking back to him and no matter what i said he was blaming for things that never happened, for example he told me that we hate Germans because they are not Slavic (even tho they actually are connected to Slavs but in Europe culture mixing is normal) and when i told him that my gf is German and i try to revive petriotism in her he blamed me for Polonising her... it is hard to win with a smart man but you cannot win with idiot.

Just take a look at normal thread and political thread and look at the difference of pages on each.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> That I agree on. However I have not seen any indication of him holding that view. Will have to poke him when he's online.


I doubt you'll get a truthful answer since he probably knows it's not a popular view. I mean if you asked someone who was a zoophile for example if they were a zoophile, they'd probably say no to not get any backlash.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I doubt you'll get a truthful answer since he probably knows it's not a popular view. I mean if you asked someone who was a zoophile for example if they were a zoophile, they'd probably say no to not get any backlash.


And we are to jump to conclusions without asking?

Sorry, but I am not going to go down that road. I would much rather ask and see what he answers rather than assume shit about someone's views I know nothing about. It's called willful ignorance, and it's a mental disease.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> And we are to jump to conclusions without asking?
> 
> Sorry, but I am not going to go down that road. I would much rather ask and see what he answers rather than assume shit about someone's views I know nothing about. It's called willful ignorance, and it's a mental disease.


You can put 2 and 2 together. He did support pedophilia. On video to be exact. No one can deny that.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You can put 2 and 2 together. He did support pedophilia. On video to be exact. No one can deny that.


Did you watch the video?

It takes barely any effort to actually ask the person in question rather than make assumptions, something that I've done to verify it one way or the other.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Did you watch the video?
> 
> It takes barely any effort to actually ask the person in question rather than make assumptions, something that I've done to verify it one way or the other.


I have watched the video. And he fucking compared the way people react to pedophilia to the way people reacted to homosexuality or interracial relationships years ago. That is the same words used by people who think something is "forward progress" by comparing something they think shouldn't be bad to how people used to think something was bad but isn't. Yeah no. I wouldn't trust him. Also comparing the persecution of homosexuals to pedophiles is infuriating as hell. I'd tell anyone and everyone to avoid his server especially anyone young.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I have watched the video. And he fucking compared the way people react to pedophilia to the way people reacted to homosexuality or interracial relationships years ago. That is the same words used by people who think something is "forward progress" by comparing something they think shouldn't be bad to how people used to think something was bad but isn't. Yeah no. I wouldn't trust him. Also comparing the persecution of homosexuals to pedophiles is infuriating as hell. I'd tell anyone and everyone to avoid his server especially anyone young.


I never said I agreed with his opinion. I only said his server is good if you want politics and are a Furry as they are two separate issues. 

But depending on what answer I get when he replies we'll know for sure.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I never said I agreed with his opinion. I only said his server is good if you want politics and are a Furry as they are two separate issues.
> 
> But depending on what answer I get when he replies we'll know for sure.


People's actions are based on their opinions.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> People's actions are based on their opinions.


Actions and opinions are completely separate things. We learned this in frickin' kindergarten.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I never said I agreed with his opinion. I only said his server is good if you want politics and are a Furry as they are two separate issues.
> 
> But depending on what answer I get when he replies we'll know for sure.


Again I will say people who have abhorrent opinions hide behind a veil of openness so they can't get in trouble. An I gotcha when someone tries to press them on it. "Well all political talk is allowed here and I'm free to have my own opinion." Doesn't mean it ain't disgusting.



Yakamaru said:


> Actions and opinions are completely separate things. We learned this in frickin' kindergarten.


What the hell do you base your actions on if not your thoughts?


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Again I will say people who have abhorrent opinions hide behind a veil of openness so they can't get in trouble. An I gotcha when someone tries to press them on it. "Well all political talk is allowed here and I'm free to have my own opinion." Doesn't mean it ain't disgusting.


Of course not. I never said otherwise. 



Ovi the Dragon said:


> What the hell do you base your actions on if not your thoughts?


Just because you have a thought it does not mean you will act upon it. You are ignoring all the nuance that comes with the territory of thought.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Of course not. I never said otherwise.
> 
> 
> Just because you have a thought it does not mean you will act upon it. You are ignoring all the nuance that comes with the territory of thought.


True. But you need to have a thought before you can act upon it. And anyone who has a temptation for kids is not someone I want to be around. And neither should anyone defend people who think people like that are okay.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> True. But you need to have a thought before you can act upon it. And anyone who has a temptation for kids is not someone I want to be around. And neither should anyone defend people who think people like that are okay.


Anyone who have such thoughts, alongside zoophilia, should seek immediate professional help. I am for keeping the stigma surrounding pedophilia and zoophilia as they are both disgusting as fuck. I also consider them mental illnesses.

However, I also want those who suffer from that shit to seek professional help. Misha is for using force, I am for encouraging seeking help discreetly. But ultimately we want the same thing, which is reducing if not killing off pedophilia.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Anyone who have such thoughts, alongside zoophilia, should seek immediate professional help. I am for keeping the stigma surrounding pedophilia and zoophilia as they are both disgusting as fuck. I also consider them mental illnesses.
> 
> However, I also want those who suffer from that shit to seek professional help. Misha is for using force, I am for encouraging seeking help discreetly. But ultimately we want the same thing, which is reducing if not killing off pedophilia.


Well I can tell you one thing that ain't gonna kill it off is being alright with someone having such views and even giving them free promotion by advocating using his server.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Well I can tell you one thing that ain't gonna kill it off is being alright with someone having such views and even giving them free promotion by advocating using his server.


How is one to reduce/eradicate something if you're not going to allow any sort of talk on the issue? If no talks take place, no ideas on how to solve it is put forward. If no ideas are put forward to solve it, the issue remains. 

Using someone's server is not promoting their views. Get your head out of your ass, please.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> How is one to reduce/eradicate something if you're not going to allow any sort of talk on the issue? If no talks take place, no ideas on how to solve it is put forward. If no ideas are put forward to solve it, the issue remains.
> 
> Using someone's server is not promoting their views. Get your head out of your ass, please.


You're only helping them grow by pushing people toward his server. Also I find it funny how everyone gets mad at me for anything that can slightly be taken as an insult yet you openly insult me all the time and no one says a word. How amusing. And you can talk about it. But supporting pedos should be just as bad as being one.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You're only helping them grow by pushing people toward his server. Also I find it funny how everyone gets mad at me for anything that can slightly be taken as an insult yet you openly insult me all the time and no one says a word. How amusing. And you can talk about it. But supporting pedos should be just as bad as being one.


Your shitty behaviour is the reason people react the way they do. Until you clean up your own shit, people are going to continue reacting that way.

To quote a certain sergal: "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes". 

Solutions on how to deal with the issue is welcome, mate.


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## AppleButt (Jul 7, 2018)

I don’t know. 

I notice that it seems like everyone who claims this isn’t a political forum, are also the same people who always comment on political threads that come up.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jul 7, 2018)

In 42 years, I have learned a few things. One of the most important ones is this: if you want to keep friends and family, never discuss politics or religion with them. Ever.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> In 42 years, I have learned a few things. One of the most important ones is this: if you want to keep friends and family, never discuss politics or religion with them. Ever.


I do it if I want to piss off my aunts. 

I swear, if my mom and my 3 aunts get together? It's worse than a building full of cackling hens. :V


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I do it if I want to piss off my aunts.
> 
> I swear, if my mom and my 3 aunts get together? It's worse than a building full of cackling hens. :V


Noice!! It IS a sure fire way to start an argument.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Noice!! It IS a sure fire way to start an argument.


Just listen to shit they say, say something contradictory, and boom. Change of topic. It's fun to watch at times, but can get annoying real fast. So I tend to spice things up a little by poking the chicken pen. :3


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## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

There are alot more conservatives than I imagined, I'll say that. Not saying that is a bad thing, just an interesting observation.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Anyone who have such thoughts, alongside zoophilia, should seek immediate professional help. I am for keeping the stigma surrounding pedophilia and zoophilia as they are both disgusting as fuck. I also consider them mental illnesses.
> 
> However, I also want those who suffer from that shit to seek professional help. Misha is for using force, I am for encouraging seeking help discreetly. But ultimately we want the same thing, which is reducing if not killing off pedophilia.



Both zoophilia and pedophilia are paraphilias, at least as far as modern society classifies them. 

However they are rather different in scope, since pedophilia is not acceptable anywhere except maybe the Middle East, considering Islam is literally based on a guy with a bunch of 13 year old wives, whereas zoophilia is sometimes practiced by isolated tribal peoples in various areas around the world. Some studies place the percent of zoophiles in the general population at the same level as homosexuals, and possibly the same with pedophiles. 

If all zoos and pedos were incapable of self control, we would have an epidemic of animal and child sexual abuse. We simply don't see that, which means if my previous points are accurate, most people with paraphilias are able to keep their urges in check because they know they're various combinations of wrong/immoral/illegal. 

This is why I advocate such extreme sexual liberty, because it allows an open and honest society where people can be much more open about their OTHER interests, which means they can freely explore various aspects of their sexuality and hopefully avoid becoming pedophiles and zoophiles. 

As a case in point, I moved from a very sexually repressed area, to an area that is very sexually liberal, and there are almost no pedophiles here, whereas there were back were I came from. 

That doesn't mean that they're completely absent, but I think the other prong in my attack is that everyone else is relatively sexually educated as well, which means it's far harder for would be pedophiles to take advantage of people. 

I believe sexual repression is actually much of what can lead to pedophila. 

So, back on track, if pedophiles can control themselves, there is no need to punish them or institutionalize them like some people have suggested as if they're still living in the draconian Middle Ages where they threw people in dungeons for walking funny. If they feel the need to go do something, they should seek help immediately, but they're not going to do that if they think they're going to get locked up instantly. 

So, treating people with paraphilias like pondscum isn't very helpful and actually winds up backfiring, because they are angry and repressed and eventually might lose control, and therefore that may actually cause more harm than good. As a result, within reason I try to be as understanding of people as possible. I've never encountered a pedophile but if I do I'll immediately encourage them to seek help.


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> If Koth is permissive of adults hitting on 16yo(or younger) members because of his views, then it makes his service unsafe for minors.


I would like to make a quick note because this is fairly straightforward. If you are one of users who liked this this quoted post, then you should see why promoting Kothorix's server or even floating it as a viable possibility is extremely irresponsible.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

I noticed that this forum mostly consists of adults around the age of twenty. People at this age are beginning to get interested in debating others, myself included. This is also the age when people are engaging in the subject of politics as they are beginning to recognize where they stand on the spectrum. They may have curiosity that leads them to ask and debate other people in a polite way, or they may have developed a tribalism behavior that leads them to have a negative view of the other party.

We as human beings since the beginning of time have lived in tribes we felt safe with for socialization and survival. When encountering a rival tribe, hostility can ensue as they compete for resources and territory, much like how democrats and republicans fight for power and influence over America. Most of us still have this tribal instinct that leads us to gather in groups we feel comfortable with. This can include politics, hobbies, religion, and even ethnicity. 

This is why democrats will defend their fellow democrats, and conservatives will defend other conservatives. I do notice that we often come to agreements on many issues, which is always a good thing, but if we are always showing hostility and aggression towards each other, than we will probably only trust and defend our own groups and refuse to recognize the possibility that the other group has some good points in their arguments.


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## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> I noticed that this forum mostly consists of adults around the age of twenty.


whoops i'm a smol bean again compared to everyone else


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Oakie-Dokie said:


> whoops i'm a smol bean again compared to everyone else


But a worthy and respectable bean none the less ^^


----------



## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> This is why democrats will defend their fellow democrats, and conservatives will defend other conservatives.


Not necessarily. There have been a few times on this forum where, despite markedly different political outlooks, most users agreed that demeaning an individual or group of people was unambiguously wrong. I just wish we had more of those moments when people are under attack.


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## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> But a worthy and respectable bean none the less ^^


awwh thanks!! >w<


----------



## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Not necessarily. There have been a few times on this forum where, despite markedly different political outlooks, most users agreed that demeaning an individual or group of people was unambiguously wrong. I just wish we had more of those moments when people are under attack.


You're right about that. Perhaps I was being too general or stereotypical in that part. I don't enjoy seeing demeaning behavior towards users at all. It's best to call it out when we see it, especially on these forums.


----------



## Saiko (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Anyone who have such thoughts, alongside zoophilia, should seek immediate professional help. I am for keeping the stigma surrounding pedophilia and zoophilia as they are both disgusting as fuck. I also consider them mental illnesses.
> 
> However, I also want those who suffer from that shit to seek professional help. Misha is for using force, I am for encouraging seeking help discreetly. But ultimately we want the same thing, which is reducing if not killing off pedophilia.


As I understand it, therapy/counseling for this kind of thing usually revolves around recognizing, controlling, and living with those urges. It very rarely focuses on getting rid of the attraction itself, at least not entirely. If they were to seek professional help, many of the people who _only_ have the paraphilia would likely get help focusing on self-worth and guilt and would not be “cured” in the way I think you expect.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> I noticed that this forum mostly consists of adults around the age of twenty. People at this age are beginning to get interested in debating others, myself included. This is also the age when people are engaging in the subject of politics as they are beginning to recognize where they stand on the spectrum. They may have curiosity that leads them to ask and debate other people in a polite way, or they may have developed a tribalism behavior that leads them to have a negative view of the other party.
> 
> We as human beings since the beginning of time have lived in tribes we felt safe with for socialization and survival. When encountering a rival tribe, hostility can ensue as they compete for resources and territory, much like how democrats and republicans fight for power and influence over America. Most of us still have this tribal instinct that leads us to gather in groups we feel comfortable with. This can include politics, hobbies, religion, and even ethnicity.
> 
> This is why democrats will defend their fellow democrats, and conservatives will defend other conservatives. I do notice that we often come to agreements on many issues, which is always a good thing, but if we are always showing hostility and aggression towards each other, than we will probably only trust and defend our own groups and refuse to recognize the possibility that the other group has some good points in their arguments.



I've been debating politics, ethics, and issues since I was 13.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Saiko said:


> As I understand it, therapy/counseling for this kind of thing usually revolves around recognizing, controlling, and living with those urges. It very rarely focuses on getting rid of the attraction itself, at least not entirely. If they were to seek professional help, many of the people who _only_ have the paraphilia would likely get help focusing on self-worth and guilt and would not be “cured” in the way I think you expect.


Hmm.. True.


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## Kyr (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Being frank, I was very clear with my words, yet you framed my words as a "gotya" post when I was bringing up a legitimate issue that was not even political. I do not want to accuse you of the trolling you usually engage on threads, but this smacks of it.
> 
> You basically acknowledge that he has significantly more control over that community than the members given that he is the owner. In the best case scenario, Kothorix is too ignorant of the fact pedophilia is a condition that can drive a person to engage in behaviors that endanger minors and therefore can not be trusted to guarantee the safety of those in his server. The beliefs he has espoused could serve as a dog-whistle to pedophiles who may view his server as an inviting platform to potentially groom minors. The worst case scenario should be fairly obvious.
> 
> ...


Ok, let's get through this. When i came into this thread i had no inclination to continue paying attention to the same bloody annoying topics that have plagued this forum of late. My initial response to your post on Koth was simply "ugh". Yak was recommending a server that could provide some interesting political discussion with its users, your response to that was to dredge up an old, irrelevant argument that had nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

Now i have to respond to this nonsense, great. Dog whistle is a fucking buzzword, i'm sick of hearing it. Koth may actually have a more nuanced view of pedophiles than you give him credit for, he's willing to consider them as people that are afflicted with unpleasant desires after all. I think ultimately the issue is, pedophiles are demonized for good reason, but, should we be willing to treat them with a little more grace if they admit their desires are a problem and don't wish to act on them? I'd say that explains this statement.

"The way I see some people react to them sickens me more than the thought of pedophilia itself." (1:45)

It's an argument for the rights of children VS the rights of people that want to have sex with them. People will always side with the children and rightfully so, but does it go too far to actively dehumanize people who may simply have sexual drives they can't control? (this is not an argument i wish to get into, for the record)

"The age of consent being at 18 strikes as odd. Shouldn't the age that you're allowed to have sex based on when you reach sexual maturity. Why is it considered such a moral crime and sick thing to like a 16 year old? (3:10)

16 is the legal age of consent in England and several other European states. As Koth stated the legal age in Japan is 13 (explains all those 14 yo anime girls), think it's 13 in Mexico too but i'm not sure. Point is the legal age of sexual and mental maturity isn't fixed and thus is up for debate.

I think his statement about child molesters shows he understands why laws against pedophilia exist, again the issue is one of demonization (which again, is completely understandable). What if a pedophile doesn't want to rape children and is sicked by their desires? Where can a person like that turn to seek help and should they be allowed to if it'll prevent them from becoming active sex offenders?

Does he have a reputation for normalizing pedophilia? (tbf it is actually a "normal" thing, given its prevalence within society) It just sounds like you're saying he normalizes pedophilia, and that's nothing but your potentially incorrect opinion.

Yak doesn't agree with Koth's stance on pedophilia (I don't agree with parts of it either after learning more about it) yet recommended the server. Why? Well maybe the people on the server don't all think like him and maybe, just maybe, they could provide the sort of political discussion the user Yak was responding to was looking for. Groups are not hive minds.


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 7, 2018)

Dongding said:


> That's why I generally stick to arguing philosophy. *When you're right it transcends the need for proof and often even the argument itself.* Not only that, but generally the only people who don't agree with me on philosophical matters are unbalanced actualretards anyways, so it doesn't bother me that they go back to licking glass or whatever once we've finished discussing the matter.



Ah... I see.

Problem is, How Do You Know You're Right?  Because there may be another person who Thinks They Are Right... and their Right might just differ from yours.  Which means, you need to discuss/argue why You Believe You Are Right.  In order to Prove You Are Right.  Which, to be honest, You Just Might Not Be.

Then again, Right Is In The Eye Of The Beholder....... is it not?


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## aloveablebunny (Jul 7, 2018)

Because people need an internet platform to shove their beliefs down others' throats and condemn those who disagree with them... since it's apparently _so difficult_ to simply live with your beliefs and let others live with theirs, without starting fights over it.


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## Yvvki (Jul 7, 2018)

Boredom mostly, but that's just a theory.


----------



## aloveablebunny (Jul 7, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Both zoophilia and pedophilia are paraphilias, at least as far as modern society classifies them.
> 
> However they are rather different in scope, since pedophilia is not acceptable anywhere except maybe the Middle East, considering Islam is literally based on a guy with a bunch of 13 year old wives, whereas zoophilia is sometimes practiced by isolated tribal peoples in various areas around the world. Some studies place the percent of zoophiles in the general population at the same level as homosexuals, and possibly the same with pedophiles.
> 
> ...



Interesting that you take such a strong stance on _'protecting' _certain kinds of people who think that it's perfectly acceptable to entertain, or act upon, sexual thoughts that involve people or animals that aren't able to legally consent to said sexual thoughts or acts. Really, _really_ interesting.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

aloveablebunny said:


> Because people need an internet platform to shove their beliefs down others' throats and condemn those who disagree with them... since it's apparently _so difficult_ to simply live with your beliefs and let others live with theirs, without starting fights over it.



Right, and some people's belief system involves being vocal about their belief system in appropriate settings, what do you say about that?


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

aloveablebunny said:


> Interesting that you take such a strong stance on _'protecting' _certain kinds of people who think that it's perfectly acceptable to entertain, or act upon, sexual thoughts that involve people or animals that aren't able to legally consent to said sexual thoughts or acts. Really, _really_ interesting.



Before we get started, I'd like to remind you of all the times you've said you hate drama. And yet, here you are, immediately zeroed in on the most controversial thread on the forum. It comes across as somewhat hypocritical. 

Anyway, I'd like to point out that i am pretty saying what others in this thread are saying about pedophiles, but for some reason it's fun to isolate me because I'm a controversial figure, with controversial views. 

And, there are many types of fantasy in this world. Do we care about all the people playing GTA, fantasizing about killing cops all over the place? Of course not, because fiction is vastly different from reality. 

So, you'll have to define what you mean by "protect."


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> That I agree on. However I have not seen any indication of him holding that view. Will have to poke him when he's online.


He mentions the age of "sexual maturity" as being a better standard in his video compared to 18, and indicates no displeasure for someone in their early 20s dating someone 16. 

Our actions are always a balance of our impulse, beliefs, and fear of consequences, highest take all.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> He mentions the age of "sexual maturity" as being a better standard in his video compared to 18, and indicates no displeasure for someone in their early 20s dating someone 16.
> 
> Our actions are always a balance of our impulse, beliefs, and fear of consequences, highest take all.


And? I don't agree with that point of view. Doesn't mean I shouldn't go to his politics channel and use it for its intended purpose, as it's one of the bigger servers out there for just that. 

They are two separate topics.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Your shitty behaviour is the reason people react the way they do. Until you clean up your own shit, people are going to continue reacting that way.
> 
> To quote a certain sergal: "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
> 
> Solutions on how to deal with the issue is welcome, mate.


"Shitty behaviour". You're the one who insulted me. And again recommending someone's server with those beliefs only makes them grow in popularity.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Whew boy page 8!

How long is this one gonna burn eh?


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Whew boy page 8!
> 
> How long is this one gonna burn eh?


As long there is a topic to discuss, and a mod does not lock the thread.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> "Shitty behaviour". You're the one who insulted me. And again recommending someone's server with those beliefs only makes them grow in popularity.


Yes, shitty behaviour. You read that right. You've been banned from 4 Discord servers and left a 5th. Now why do you think that is?

I see no problem recommending a decent platform that is meant for political conversations. Unless you'd prefer I recommend Xanadu Politics that have some 300 AltFurries on it?


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Yes, shitty behaviour. You read that right. You've been banned from 4 Discord servers and left a 5th. Now why do you think that is?
> 
> I see no problem recommending a decent platform that is meant for political conversations. Unless you'd prefer I recommend Xanadu Politics that have some 300 AltFurries on it?


4? Where did you get this number from? And I did leave a ton of Discords because my server list was huge and most furry servers I was in liked to reeeee about women or black people in Black Panther for example. The only ones that come to mind that I have been banned from is Furryland because I couldn't even mention hunting and then recently my temp ban from Fur Base was because some whacko was talking about the end of the world and crazy prophecies about Trump and Isreal and stuff so I called him crazy. And people didn't like that.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> 4? Where did you get this number from? And I did leave a ton of Discords because my server list was huge and most furry servers I was in liked to reeeee about women or black people in Black Panther for example. The only ones that come to mind that I have been banned from is Furryland because I couldn't even mention hunting and then recently my temp ban from Fur Base was because some whacko was talking about the end of the world and crazy prophecies about Trump and Isreal and stuff so I called him crazy. And people didn't like that.



There are always two sides to a story. You are failing to disclose all the details.

Ovi, why are you being so combative to everyone lately? Honestly. I thought we were all getting along fine, but you seem out for blood from everybody.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)




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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I see no problem recommending a decent platform that is meant for political conversations. Unless you'd prefer I recommend Xanadu Politics that have some 300 AltFurries on it?


I and other users already commented on our reservations about Kothorix and his server. Nazifurs are even worse choice, though I believe you are joking.


Yakamaru said:


> Yes, shitty behaviour. You read that right. You've been banned from 4 Discord servers and left a 5th. Now why do you think that is?


There is no need to get personal here. I have marked disagreements with you and others, yet never resorted to personal attacks. We need to tone this down.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> There are always two sides to a story. You are failing to disclose all the details.
> 
> Ovi, why are you being so combative to everyone lately? Honestly. I thought we were all getting along fine, but you seem out for blood from everybody.


This is what politics and religion do. Don't talk to me about it and I get along great with people which is why I prefer Discord. I was bored of not having social interaction so I'm here again and the only threads that have any activity on this forum are dumpster fires. Also why do you guys always call me out when I say something that could be taken as an insult yet you guys stroll right on by Yaka blatantly insulting me?


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> There are always two sides to a story. You are failing to disclose all the details.
> 
> Ovi, why are you being so combative to everyone lately? Honestly. I thought we were all getting along fine, but you seem out for blood from everybody.


I know I feel the same way, and I admit when Yakamaru mention that detail it made me think more about the argument as a whole. If their is something wrong Ovi all I can say is there going be bad days and good days.


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## Pinky (Jul 7, 2018)

There really should be a debate or political section of the forum. So general isn't full of the same 5 political threads with the same 10 people every month.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> I and other users already commented on our reservations about Kothorix and his server. Nazifurs are even worse choice, though I believe you are joking.
> There is no need to get personal here. I have marked disagreements with you and others, yet never resorted to personal attacks. We need to tone this down.


You'd be suprised. I think you missed my post about him defending Foxler.



ZeroVoidTime said:


> I know I feel the same way, and I admit when Yakamaru mention that detail it made me think more about the argument as a whole. If their is something wrong Ovi all I can say is there going be bad days and good days.


People are just pissy at me for being straightforward and not beating around the bush when it comes to things.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You'd be suprised. I think you missed my post about him defending Foxler.
> 
> 
> People are just pissy at me for being straightforward and not beating around the bush when it comes to things.



It wouldn't kill you to conduct yourself with proper decorum.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> 4? Where did you get this number from? And I did leave a ton of Discords because my server list was huge and most furry servers I was in liked to reeeee about women or black people in Black Panther for example. The only ones that come to mind that I have been banned from is Furryland because I couldn't even mention hunting and then recently my temp ban from Fur Base was because some whacko was talking about the end of the world and crazy prophecies about Trump and Isreal and stuff so I called him crazy. And people didn't like that.


Two wrongs does not make a right. Your behaviour is not excused just because someone else breaks a rule that was set up. 



Mach said:


> I and other users already commented on our reservations about Kothorix and his server. Nazifurs are even worse choice, though I believe you are joking.


I don't have the same reservations like you and others do, sorry to say. And no, I wouldn't mind recommending Xanadu Politics if someone were actually interested in political discourse without having moral Authoritarians/busybodies around, breathing down their neck.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> It wouldn't kill you to conduct yourself with proper decorum.


And yet I'm the one being insulted and not responding back with insults. 



Yakamaru said:


> Two wrongs does not make a right. Your behaviour is not excused just because someone else breaks a rule that was set up.
> 
> 
> I don't have the same reservations like you and others do, sorry to say. And no, I wouldn't mind recommending Xanadu Politics if someone were actually interested in political discourse without having moral Authoritarians/busybodies around, breathing down their neck.


"Two wrongs doesn't make a right." Proceeds to throw insults my way. What a way to practice what you preach.


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I don't have the same reservations like you and others do, sorry to say. And no, I wouldn't mind recommending Xanadu Politics if someone were actually interested in political discourse without having moral Authoritarians/busybodies around, breathing down their neck.


Kothorix's disturbing stances on pedophilia aside, I certainly would not recommend any platform with Nazifurs on it, given the quite frankly vile way they conduct themselves. I hope this is just sarcasm or a joke on your part.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Kothorix's disturbing stances on pedophilia aside, I certainly would not recommend any platform with Nazifurs on it, given the quite frankly vile way they conduct themselves. I hope this is just sarcasm or a joke on your part.


He's being serious


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> He's being serious


I would rather let the man speak for himself, but I think he is joking.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> I would rather let the man speak for himself, but I think he is joking.


Sure. But he defended this guy straight to my face and tried to tell me his arm band wasn't a nazi based one.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Kothorix's disturbing stances on pedophilia aside, I certainly would not recommend any platform with Nazifurs on it, given the quite frankly vile way they conduct themselves. I hope this is just sarcasm or a joke on your part.


I am serious. And no, they are not Nazifurs.

Want political discourse without moral Authoritarians? Xanadu Politics is the place to go.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

I like how he just skipped over my post about him insulting me and his two wrongs don't make a right comment.



Yakamaru said:


> I am serious. And no, they are not Nazifurs.
> 
> Want political discourse without moral Authoritarians? Xanadu Politics is the place to go.


Also I think if someone is a fascist then being a "moral authoritarian" ain't so bad if you tell them to stfu.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jul 7, 2018)

Last time I checked here, the topic was on some guy's views on pedophilia and now it's about nazifurs. Right.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Two wrongs does not make a right. Your behaviour is not excused just because someone else breaks a rule that was set up.
> 
> 
> I don't have the same reservations like you and others do, sorry to say. And no, I wouldn't mind recommending Xanadu Politics if someone were actually interested in political discourse without having moral Authoritarians/busybodies around, breathing down their neck.


You do realize you made a moral contradiction in what you just said. The way you phrased your statement is you care about the rules right? Since you care about the rules why are you complaining about people being monitored and not obeying the rules? I am just curious.


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I am serious. And no, they are not Nazifurs.


Respectfully, most of the fandom would disagree. 

@Ovi the Dragon is that not that Foxler Nightfear Nazifur?


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> You do realize you made a moral contradiction in what you just said. The way you phrased your statement is you care about the rules right? Since you care about the rules why are you complaining about people being monitored and not obeying the rules? I am just curious.


A member of our server talked about something they shouldn't have, despite our rules clearly stating it as such. Ovi came in and acted like a total ass for the 3rd time. The person in question got a warning and was clearly warned not to talk about such topics again. They were both in the wrong, they both broke the rules, and they both got consequences as such. Ovi just so happened to have already been on his last straw, ending in a 2-week ban. 

Two wrongs does not make a right. One person's actions does not justify someone else's.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> A member of our server talked about something they shouldn't have, despite our rules clearly stating it as such. Ovi came in and acted like a total ass for the 3rd time. The person in question got a warning and was clearly warned not to talk about such topics again. They were both in the wrong, they both broke the rules, and they both got consequences as such. Ovi just so happened to have already been on his last straw, ending in a 2-week ban.
> 
> Two wrongs does not make a right. One person's actions does not justify someone else's.


I'd again like to point out your insults toward me that you keep ignoring. Mr. Two Wrongs don't Make a Right



Mach said:


> Respectfully, most of the fandom would disagree.
> 
> @Ovi the Dragon is that not that Foxler Nightfear Nazifur?


Yes. That's Foxler


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

Just my two cents. Folxer is just an unfunny loser that wants to get a rise out of people. I doubt he is an actual Nazi.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Respectfully, most of the fandom would disagree.
> 
> @Ovi the Dragon is that not that Foxler Nightfear Nazifur?


Respectfully, the people themselves disagree, seeing as I have also been in direct contact with them and talk with some of them on a bi-weekly basis. Calling someone a Nazifur does not make them one, but you're free to continue calling them whatever you want. 



Ovi the Dragon said:


> I'd again like to point out your insults toward me that you keep ignoring. Mr. Two Wrongs don't Make a Right


Get your head out of your ass = Get a grip. Grow up. Want more synonyms?


----------



## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> You do realize you made a moral contradiction in what you just said. The way you phrased your statement is you care about the rules right? Since you care about the rules why are you complaining about people being monitored and not obeying the rules? I am just curious.


Rules can be fine, but how you enforce them can make a huge difference.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> A member of our server talked about something they shouldn't have, despite our rules clearly stating it as such. Ovi came in and acted like a total ass for the 3rd time. The person in question got a warning and was clearly warned not to talk about such topics again. They were both in the wrong, they both broke the rules, and they both got consequences as such. Ovi just so happened to have already been on his last straw, ending in a 2-week ban.
> 
> Two wrongs does not make a right. One person's actions does not justify someone else's.


The first time I got in trouble was me causing a fuss because you tried to change the rules to allow politics since you broke that rule and love talking about it so much. And then the second time was me telling the mods publicly that you kept being a dick to me and treating me different. Since you want to make the last thing that got me banned public then I might as well add those last two to the mix to show what I did wasn't actually that bad.


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Jul 7, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> A member of our server talked about something they shouldn't have, despite our rules clearly stating it as such. Ovi came in and acted like a total ass for the 3rd time. The person in question got a warning and was clearly warned not to talk about such topics again. They were both in the wrong, they both broke the rules, and they both got consequences as such. Ovi just so happened to have already been on his last straw, ending in a 2-week ban.
> 
> Two wrongs does not make a right. One person's actions does not justify someone else's.


Thank You for replying! That is a fascinating answer, and I have to say that best answer I have for this problem is both of you should take a break. Try to do something else and think about both of you said and done. I am no expert but it is best way to resolve a conflict.


Infrarednexus said:


> Rules can be fine, but how you enforce them can make a huge difference.


By all means this is very true!


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## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

I'm having a good time.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)




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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> Just my two cents. Folxer is just an unfunny loser that wants to get a rise out of people. I doubt he is an actual Nazi.


That hardly sounds like certainty, with respect.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

We gonna get a round 2 or what?


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## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> That hardly sounds like certainty, with respect.



He exhibits certain patterns of somebody who likes to 'fuck' with people or troll, if you prefer.


----------



## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> He exhibits certain patterns of somebody who likes to 'fuck' with people or troll, if you prefer.


We do have furries who like to troll other furries. It's certainly possible.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Here goes the altfurry discussion again.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

I'm not complaining, today's episode has had all kinds of fun twists.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Here goes the altfurry discussion again.


----------



## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> He exhibits certain patterns of somebody who likes to 'fuck' with people or troll, if you prefer.


Maybe I am being fastidious, but neither being a Nazi or pretending to be a Nazi to stir controversy is very positive to me. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Maybe I am being fastidious, but neither being a Nazi or pretending to be a Nazi to stir controversy is very positive to me. Correct me if I am wrong.


Never said it was.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

XoPachi said:


> View attachment 35204



Damn why is he more talented than me qwq


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Damn why is he more talented than me qwq


----------



## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

XoPachi said:


> View attachment 35205


----------



## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Here goes the altfurry discussion again.


What altfurry discussion and what do you mean "again"?


----------



## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

You’re newer so I’ll fill you in- there was a huge war over altfurry on this forum about 2 months ago. It stemmed from the new CoC update on the main site. It was total insanity, from all sides. It seems most of the chatter about it has died down, but digging it up again will surely let all hell loose.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> You’re newer so I’ll fill you in- there was a huge war over altfurry on this forum about 2 months ago. It stemmed from the new CoC update on the main site. It was total insanity, from all sides. It seems most of the chatter about it has died down, but digging it up again will surely let all hell loose.


Let's stop before we open the gates of hell lol


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

Is moral authoritarianism what we are calling judging people by any reasonable moral standard now?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Let's stop before we open the gates of hell lol


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Let's stop before we open the gates of hell lol



The post above is an appropriate response to this xD


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

XoPachi said:


> View attachment 35206


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> You’re newer so I’ll fill you in- there was a huge war over altfurry on this forum about 2 months ago. It stemmed from the new CoC update on the main site. It was total insanity, from all sides. It seems most of the chatter about it has died down, but digging it up again will surely let all hell loose.


That makes marginally more sense to me now. Why the controversy, though? Most people hate altfurry. I would think there would be no disagreement.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)




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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> That makes marginally more sense to me now. Why the controversy, though? Most people hate altfurry. I would think there would be no disagreement.


One guy here started accusing anyone who disagreed with him or right leaning as alt furry. He blackmailed and leaked information to shut people up that he didn't like.

He ended up splitting the forums in half and turning us against each other.

That's why we don't like discussing alt furry anymore. Because of all the problems it caused.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> One guy here started accusing anyone who disagreed with him or right leaning as alt furry. He blackmailed and leaked information to shut people up that he didn't like.
> 
> He ended up splitting the forums in half and turning us against each other.


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> One guy here started accusing anyone who disagreed with him or right leaning as alt furry. He blackmailed and leaked information to shut people up that he didn't like.


That is unacceptable, though I find little sympathy for altfurry/altfurries(?). They were the bane of FA writers. What happened?


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> That is unacceptable, though I find little sympathy for altfurry/altfurries(?). They were the bane of FA writers. What happened?


All I know is that he started accusing others of being affiliated with the group with no basis of evidence. He derailed every thread by mentioning it. He was so obsessed with alt furry that he started pretending it existed where it didn't. He even accused me and my friends of being part of it just for protesting all the shit he started.

Some idiots still think me and my friends are alt furry just because the jackass said so.


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> All I know is that he started accusing others of being affiliated with the group with no basis of evidence. He derailed every thread by mentioning it. He was so obsessed with alt furry that he started pretending it existed where it didn't. He even accused me and my friends of being part of it just for protesting all the shit he started.
> 
> Some idiots still think me and my friends are alt furry just because the jackass said so.


Who was this? Actual altfurry users I do not mind seeing gone, but some evidence should be provided to avoid witch hunts, which seem to happen here every week. That was my main problem with the update. Furthermore, you seem to be mostly on the level, @Infrarednexus , but others here seem shaky.


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## pandasayori (Jul 7, 2018)

Not sure why political threads keep popping up, but it’s honestly exhausting to read. Starts off semi-decently but then boils down to the exact same people going back and forth with one another. It fixes nothing absolutely nothing and comes off as finger pointing in my mind. Just widening a gap without fixing anything.

Personally I’d rather not know someones political alignment because there is stigmas regardless of where you fall on the spectrum. Just don’t be an ass and things “““should””” be fine. If all else fails, just have a designated section on the forums for people to get political and talk about discourse.

Least that’s just what I think.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Who was this? Actual altfurry users I do not mind seeing gone, but some evidence should be provided to avoid witch hunts, which seem to happen here every week. That was my main problem with the update. Furthermore, you seem to be mostly on the level, @Infrarednexus ,* but others here seem shaky.*


*
*
My advice for you Mach, please drop the alt furry shit right now. It's caused enough problems for me and others already, and passively making assumptions that certain users are members, without any evidence other than the fact that they are avoidant of the subject, is exactly how witch hunts start.


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## Dongding (Jul 7, 2018)

Roose Hurro said:


> Ah... I see.
> 
> Problem is, How Do You Know You're Right?  Because there may be another person who Thinks They Are Right... and their Right might just differ from yours.



That doesn't normally occur if your goal is to live and let live, which is mine. It's much easier to spot who's innately right or wrong when following that one because it's literally a 2-part-check at most.

If you disagree you can elaborate, but if I understood you correctly, we understand each other perfectly. It's not like I think my philosophy is the only right one, I just think it's the safest bet given that it's sentiment is simultaneous coexistence with all others forever no matter what they believe.

Generally everyone can tell with philosophy who's clearly imposing and everyone has developed their sociecties unanimously around certain simple reoccurring concepts like respect for elders, generosity, treating others as you'd want to be treated, etc.

So yes, you're correct for pointing out that if something that everyone in the world knows better than to do like butting in lines or littering, and should know already not to do those things just simply by having feelings themselves and knowing that the world doesn't revolve around them, and if that someone is doing the opposite because they're naturally a dick, then yes they might need to be straightened out. But it wouldn't be for anything other than what's explicitly fundamentally wrong to any onlooker with a brain at a glance when it comes to philosophy. There's a clear line of right and wrong, at least in regards to how we treat eachother.

Edit: Also @Roose Hurro I'm having trouble reading my post without it coming off as abrasive or defensive. I got what you mean so disregard the edge on this post. :3


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> My advice for you Mach, please drop the alt furry shit right now. It's caused enough problems for me and others already, and passively making assumptions that certain users are members, without any evidence other than the fact that they are avoidant of the subject, is exactly how witch hunts start.


Who was this user? I would like to know to see for myself. However, I will drop for now, since clearly it is causing some unnecessary distress. A user just offered to give me what she says is another account anyway. Recent events on this thread and others suggest certain things, but I do not have facts and you know well enough to know like those, to say the least. Thank you for telling me what you did.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Mach said:


> Who was this user? I would like to know to see for myself. However, I will drop for now, since clearly it is causing some unnecessary distress. A user just offered to give me what she says is another account anyway. Recent events on this thread and others suggest certain things, but I do not have facts and you know well enough to know like those, to say the least. Thank you for telling me what you did.



This user is now banned- as he should be.

I am happy to PM you the user’s name. However, continuing this discussion will end VERY badly, I can assure you that much.


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## Mach (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> This user is now banned- as he should be.
> 
> I am happy to PM you the user’s name. However, continuing this discussion will end VERY badly, I can assure you that much.


I am not continuing this line of discussion here. You have my word. I would like someone to explain patiently why they feel a Nazifur server is ideal for political discussion, but I will not ask about Altfurry directly until I have more facts and certainly not on this fight thread.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Pedophilia, zoophilia, Nazis, alt furry... is this thread a competition for most number of controversial topics or something?


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Pedophilia, zoophilia, Nazis, alt furry... is this thread a competition for most number of controversial topics or something?



What’s makes it even more amusing is that this thread was questioning _why _we are debating all these so much. Lmaooo the irony is beautiful isn’t it?


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Pedophilia, zoophilia, Nazis, alt furry... is this thread a competition for most number of controversial topics or something?


Basically every single cancerous topic put into a thread, which ironically was intended to question why we talk about them in the first place.

EDIT: Dangit! Ginza beat me to it!


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> Basically every single cancerous topic put into a thread, which ironically was intended to question why we talk about them in the first place.
> 
> EDIT: Dangit! Ginza beat me to it!



Now all we need is Trump and this thread will be a _supreme _dumpster fire


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Hey guys. 

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. 

There. Now y'all woke af and can move on.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Now all we need is Trump and this thread will be a _supreme _dumpster fire


Be careful what you wish for XD


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Now all we need is Trump and this thread will be a _supreme _dumpster fire



Trumpster fire


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

I'm far left but it had to be done.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Sparklewoof said:


> There's nothing wrong with a bit of politics. How about we talk about how hitler did nothing worng, shall we?



Welp, time for everyone to hide their doggos ._.


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Welp, time for everyone to hide their doggos ._.



Rest In Peace FAF 

Here we go again :’)


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

In case it isn’t clear- this user is trolling. Ignore all his posts, don’t take the bait and burn the thread more.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Rest In Peace FAF
> 
> Here we go again :’)



It was good knowing youuuuuu!!! *screams as their ship goes up in flames and starts sinking*


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

Sparklewoof said:


> There's nothing wrong with a bit of politics. How about we talk about how hitler did nothing worng, shall we?


What in the 9 hells hells is this poster even?!

Got a fucking Soviet flag posting this.

I'm dying right now!


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> What in the 9 hells hells is this poster even?!



Zoophile, pedo, troll. Block and report.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 7, 2018)

I can't see them anymore?


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Wow he just got banned again. That was fast!


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 7, 2018)

Lmao


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## Oakie-Dokie (Jul 7, 2018)

new record


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 7, 2018)

I was looking forward to some tacky dog jokes.


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## Crimcyan (Jul 7, 2018)

Awe I missed dinglefuts? He would've been fun to fuck around with on boring ass day


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Crimcyan said:


> Awe I missed dinglefuts? He's would've been fun to fuck around with on boring ass day


The guy clearly has developed a notorious rep. Even the newer people seem to know who this guy is.


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## Crimcyan (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> The guy clearly has developed a notorious rep. Even the newer people seem to know who this guy is.


Yeah he tends to get around, I've had quite a few encounters with him, some that were pure arguing, but his more recent ones we had a fairly nice conversation.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Crimcyan said:


> Yeah he tends to get around, I've had quite a few encounters with him, some that were pure arguing, but his more recent ones we had a fairly nice conversation.


Who wouldn't have a nice conversation with a fox like you? <3


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## Ginza (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> Who wouldn't have a nice conversation with a fox like you? <3



Crimcyan is a harasser


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Crimcyan is a harasser


Blasphemy! He is a saint with a pure heart and clean mind!


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## Crimcyan (Jul 7, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> Blasphemy! He is a saint with a pure heart and clean mind!


THATS GHEY


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 7, 2018)

Crimcyan said:


> THATS GHEY


;_;


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## Judge Spear (Jul 7, 2018)

Ok. I'm back. Anyway...


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## Yakamaru (Jul 7, 2018)

What in the name of actual. Don't tell me a certain person was back? Fjuck. :V


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 7, 2018)

Dongding said:


> *That doesn't normally occur if your goal is to live and let live, which is mine.* It's much easier to spot who's innately right or wrong when following that one because it's literally a 2-part-check at most.
> 
> If you disagree you can elaborate, but if I understood you correctly, we understand each other perfectly. It's not like I think my philosophy is the only right one, I just think it's the safest bet given that it's sentiment is simultaneous coexistence with all others forever no matter what they believe.
> 
> ...



Now I see clearer.  Thanks much for your considerate reply, so don't worry about being abrasive/defensive.  You're not.  And no, I can't disagree, because I also prefer "Live and let live."  To the point where I wish politics would be banned from government.  Tends to be more trouble than it's worth, and causes unnecessary complications.  But things are as they are, and I like discussing interesting subjects, which can, unfortunately, include politics and religion.  And yes, generally everyone can tell... but then, well, those complications come into play, don't they?

As the famous quote goes:  "There is more in Heaven and Earth than is dreampt of in your philosophy."  This can muddle the waters.  Generally, everyone can agree that murder is wrong... except for those who commit murder.  Though, this doesn't necessarily mean that the murderer doesn't know Right from Wrong.  They may just not care.

As you said, they may just be a dick.

*"There's a clear line of right and wrong, at least in regards to how we treat each other."*  Indeed, this is what it comes down to.  You and I and others recognize this.  And given the discussion in this thread, sad to say, there are others who don't.  Because they can't see what is fundamentally wrong.  Because even with a brain, your philosophy isn't their's.

Hopefully I've made myself clearer.




Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Is moral authoritarianism what we are calling judging people by any reasonable moral standard now?



This has been going on for quite some time, so it's nothing new.


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## Wolfstin (Jul 8, 2018)

Politics are gonna to fuck you over no matter what. You just got to vote for the one that kicks you in the ass less.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 8, 2018)

Please ban everyone here but me :V


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 8, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Please ban everyone here but me :V


But then you would have no one to hit on?


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 8, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> But then you would have no one to hit on?



It is not nice to hit other people...


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 8, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> But then you would have no one to hit on?


No one is sending me nudes anyway >:U


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## katalistik (Jul 8, 2018)

Politics are the reason why these forums got so empty and full of crap. I'd rather eat a Snickers and become a modafucking Godzilla. 

I miss all the old funny threads.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jul 8, 2018)

I'm actually wondering myself if the influx of political-heavy topics has anything to do with older members. I was around back then and the forum was absolutely soaked with them, as well as a lot of other controversial topics.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2018)




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## Yakamaru (Jul 8, 2018)

XoPachi said:


> View attachment 35245


"I'm sorry, officer. Whenever I panic I start barking at the steering wheel. Also I have fleas."


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## KimberVaile (Jul 8, 2018)

Don't care what anybody says, this thread was a hoot and a holler.


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## aloveablebunny (Jul 8, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Right, and some people's belief system involves being vocal about their belief system in appropriate settings, what do you say about that?



There's a vast difference between being "vocal" about your beliefs and shoving them down others' throats. The latter of which usually simultaneously involves attempting to act like you know better than they do via pulling websites and statistics out of the air and pretending like a forum for Furries is a high school debate class. That which you also love to do anywhere you think you have a voice to do it with.




BahgDaddy said:


> Before we get started, I'd like to remind you of all the times you've said you hate drama. And yet, here you are, immediately zeroed in on the most controversial thread on the forum. It comes across as somewhat hypocritical.
> 
> Anyway, I'd like to point out that i am pretty saying what others in this thread are saying about pedophiles, but for some reason it's fun to isolate me because I'm a controversial figure, with controversial views.
> 
> ...



What I mean by "protect" is having some odd, vested interest in preventing these classes of people from getting shunned or harmed by the rest of the general population... for the sheer fact that these classes of people have sexual interests involving animals and people who cannot legally consent to sexual acts. But I really didn't need to define that because you know exactly what I mean. I just figured I'd put it out there for whoever else was curious to know what I mean too. But... you're not denying the fact that you are indeed _protecting_ these types of people. _Interesting. _I'm also not talking about any other classes of people, so do me a favor and stay on topic.

Oh yeah - drama - I didn't forget, however kindly note that I didn't bring up any of my personal drama with you in these recent interactions - but you in fact *did*. Both in this thread, in this reply which I am now replying to, and also in the thread where I felt it was hilarious to see you and Ovi pretending like you're innocent and your bans from Discord servers were unjust. It's quite hypocritical that you're trying to call me the hypocrite here.

You love public drama. Thrive on it. You have no platform if someone isn't giving you a reaction to some crazy shit that you decided to produce and put out here on these forums. You were removed from some of the biggest Discord servers where you tried to pull this kind of crap, and now you're left to using these forums as your only source of a soapbox to project the sick, twisted, creepy as hell things that go on in your mind.


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## CindyPig (Jul 8, 2018)

The current fascist , racist , theocratic, corporate, homophobic Nazi bastards in Washington have taken advantage of the apathy the dominates American culture , and turned it to their own purposes.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jul 8, 2018)

aloveablebunny said:


> There's a vast difference between being "vocal" about your beliefs and shoving them down others' throats. The latter of which usually simultaneously involves attempting to act like you know better than they do via pulling websites and statistics out of the air and pretending like a forum for Furries is a high school debate class. That which you also love to do anywhere you think you have a voice to do it with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love how he likes to point out how many times I've been banned as a gotcha yet he probably has been banned more times than me.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 8, 2018)

katalistik said:


> I'd rather eat a Snickers and become a modafucking Godzilla.


You're getting aggravated again Kat. Here.... 





Feeling better?


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## Yakamaru (Jul 8, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> You're getting aggravated again Kat. Here....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ffs, Nexxy. Now I got even more hungry. xD


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## katalistik (Jul 8, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> You're getting aggravated again Kat. Here....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fluffier than before.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 8, 2018)

CindyPig said:


> The current fascist , racist , theocratic, corporate, homophobic Nazi bastards in Washington have taken advantage of the apathy the dominates American culture , and turned it to their own purposes.


And the Neoliberal socially progressive nationalists in the Democrat wing have too. It's what happens when you have political apathy in a republic; a minority of the population determines the outcome of all political decisions. 

Keep in mind Judge Kennedy's sudden right swing before resigning, and his anti union rulings. Neither core party gives a shit about what you want, they care about the agendas of their doners, be those doners be right or left. But all of those major donors are insanely wealthy, and won't do much that shoots themselves in the foot.


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## BahgDaddy (Jul 8, 2018)

aloveablebunny said:


> There's a vast difference between being "vocal" about your beliefs and shoving them down others' throats. The latter of which usually simultaneously involves attempting to act like you know better than they do via pulling websites and statistics out of the air and pretending like a forum for Furries is a high school debate class. That which you also love to do anywhere you think you have a voice to do it with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As a matter of fact, you are bringing up past drama, which I find quite silly. None of that previous stuff bothers me, but it seems to bother you. If you'd like to discuss it in a calm, rational manner, my PM box is open for you. You may have a grudge against me, for whatever reason I can't figure out, but as far as I am concerned, you are just another furry who happened to be my staff for a while. 

They're just discord servers. Nothing actually serious. If thinking about then and worrying about them is actually occupying this much of your time, might I suggest a few hobbies?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2018)




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## Ginza (Jul 8, 2018)

CindyPig said:


> what a load of shit you have in your mouth.



Well way to be civil.

That was uncalled for mate. If you disagree, prove him wrong instead of acting like an ass.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 8, 2018)

*smacks lips*


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## Yakamaru (Jul 8, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Well way to be civil.
> 
> That was uncalled for mate. If you disagree, prove him wrong instead of acting like an ass.


Translation: Can't re*snort*. :3


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## KimberVaile (Jul 8, 2018)

I hope today's show is as good as the last.


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## Ginza (Jul 8, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> I hope today's show is as good as the last.



Nothing beats Raspberry’s show


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jul 8, 2018)

I really wish there was a way of blocking threads so that they never appear in my "new posts" feed to the right and that I don't have to seem them in their respective section.


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## KimberVaile (Jul 8, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Nothing beats Raspberry’s show



It's a shame it had to be cancelled. If only Raspberry was a better producer.


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## Yakamaru (Jul 8, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Nothing beats Raspberry’s show


^ This. Nothing beats Raspberry's. 

It's like a soap opera went bad. Real bad. And the soap was milk.


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## Ginza (Jul 8, 2018)

KimberVaile said:


> It's a shame it had to be cancelled. If only Raspberry was a better producer.



I will miss the show.


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## Simo (Jul 8, 2018)

Pinky said:


> There really should be a debate or political section of the forum. So general isn't full of the same 5 political threads with the same 10 people every month.



Not a bad idea.

It gets to the point where you can predict what people are going to say, what roles they will fall into, what scripts they will will read from. The patterns are so ingrained, that it's like watching a dysfunctional family argue, almost : P


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