# Staff Code of Conduct announcement



## timoran (Aug 16, 2011)

"Additionally, we have written a new Staff Code Of Conduct which outlines requirements that all staff must adhere to."

Where can regular users like me read the Staff Code of Conduct?


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## DarrylWolf (Aug 16, 2011)

timoran said:


> "Additionally, we have written a new Staff Code Of Conduct which outlines requirements that all staff must adhere to."
> 
> Where can regular users like me read the Staff Code of Conduct?



You can't find it so that they can catch you doing things you never knew were bad. "No picking your nose while typing up responses", for instance


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## Accountability (Aug 16, 2011)

Wondering this myself. How are we supposed to know staff is following the code of conduct if we can't see it?


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## Devious Bane (Aug 16, 2011)

I was about to make a thread of this myself.
_*It doesn't exist to us if we can't read it, you word is as trustful as a convict saying he was falsely convicted. *_If there _*is *_a CoC that the staff must adhere to, it should also be stated - In that very CoC - that failure to adhere to this CoC will result in the termination of their services. There is no mention of that either, meaning the fix for the problem is still giving the appearance of being_ half-assed_ like everything else you've promised to fix thus far.


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## Summercat (Aug 16, 2011)

_derp derp_


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## Devious Bane (Aug 16, 2011)

I can list a pretty good reason why it hasn't been released to the public already, but I'll let that assumption hang tight for now.


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## Summercat (Aug 16, 2011)

derp


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## timoran (Aug 16, 2011)

Summercat said:


> I'll be arguing about posting this in public. I don't see anything in it that we can't let you guys know, so I'm kinda confused on this issue.
> 
> /Summercat, straying from the party line? OMG!



Are you saying that someone on the staff considers publicly posting the code of conduct an "issue" to begin with?


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## Summercat (Aug 16, 2011)

derp derp derpa


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 16, 2011)

Just a quick word: at least one reason it hasn't been publicly released yet is because we're actually still discussing the particulars of the mod/admin CoC in the admin forums, so currently there only exists a rough draft.  You're welcome to join in, Summercat.


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## Volkodav (Aug 16, 2011)

Summercat said:


> There is a history of people who like to nitpick everything admins do.


Wat.
So the CoC isn't being released because the admins of an art-site are scared of being criticized?
...really? I hope I'm drunk reading this.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 16, 2011)

Summercat said:


> There is a history of people who like to nitpick everything admins do.



I know this is partly addressed to you but I'm actually also addressing it to every staff member that gets this attitude.

Yes, there are nitpickers, and there are people who are pretty damn invasive trying to dig up and do something with every bit of information.

But if this is how we think of every user then in the end we do them a disservice. In the end I don't care about the gossip column FA sites...we gotta push on. We only get worked up because we allow ourselves to act like a wounded animal because someone posted a half truth/rumor etc... on lulz, a chan board or whatever pick of the crop site the gossip sites are at. So when we show how wounded we are, of course they go for blood.

It's a viscous cycle to sit there and not want drama but involve yourself in it by these attitudes. You want to answer, answer to the best of knowledge, but dangling the carrot like a tease and then wondering why the room is suddenly full of asses is just silly.


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## Summercat (Aug 16, 2011)

derp derpity derp derp derpa


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 16, 2011)

Summercat said:


> I want to release it. What the heck are you talking about?



Which is fine, I know you do. I'm talking about this game where we keep dangling the carrot and then giving info of "Well admins are afraid of nitpicking" It needs to stop and people need to push on. I mean we basically keep telling the public how "afraid we are of them" oooh noooes. This game has  become silly.


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## timoran (Aug 17, 2011)

Summercat said:


> There is a history of people who like to nitpick everything admins do.



I fail to see how having a secret code of conduct would cause that history to have a positive trend, or how publicly releasing the code of conduct would cause a negative trend.

Unless FA staff consider being criticized for actions that actually violate this CoC "nitpicking."


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## Charrio (Aug 17, 2011)

timoran said:


> Unless FA staff consider being criticized for actions that actually violate this CoC "nitpicking."



I think that this is one of the major reasons for not releasing it.


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## Aden (Aug 17, 2011)

Charrio said:


> I think that this is one of the major reasons for not releasing it.



Well yeah, I don't want a code of conduct to be released that says I have to be nice to everyone
that would suck


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## Summercat (Aug 17, 2011)

Further derp


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## Corto (Aug 17, 2011)

Charrio said:


> I think that this is one of the major reasons for not releasing it.


Here, in case someone else missed the other posts made by the staff: 

*
THE REASON THE CoC HASN'T BEEN RELEASED IS THAT IT'S NOT READY. IT'S STILL BEING WRITTEN AND DISCUSSED PRECISELY BECAUSE OF HOW IMPORTANT IT IS, AND NOT BECAUSE THE STAFF MADE A SUPERFLUOUS SET OF IMAGINARY RULES THAT NO ONE WILL EVER SEE BECAUSE WE ARE EVIL. 
*

Ok, I hope that cleared things up. Feel free to discuss the CoC or whatever but please stop saying that the only reason it ain't public is because the staff is afraid of how users will react.


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## Volkodav (Aug 17, 2011)

Corto said:


> Here, in case someone else missed the other posts made by the staff:
> 
> *
> THE REASON THE CoC HASN'T BEEN RELEASED IS THAT IT'S NOT READY. IT'S STILL BEING WRITTEN AND DISCUSSED PRECISELY BECAUSE OF HOW IMPORTANT IT IS, AND NOT BECAUSE THE STAFF MADE A SUPERFLUOUS SET OF IMAGINARY RULES THAT NO ONE WILL EVER SEE BECAUSE WE ARE EVIL.
> ...


why would they even mention this to the userbase if it's not even completed.
Once again, brings up the "dangling a carrot" point that Arshes made


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## Corto (Aug 17, 2011)

Well, see, that is a problem in communication. I can't solve it because, it may surprise you, but I have very little saying into how this site is run, but I do my best (for example, using big ass bolded underlined letters).


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## Summercat (Aug 17, 2011)

For those wondering, I derped out my posts because I apparently was mistaken about what was going on. Not going to edit people's responses to me, though.


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## Accountability (Aug 17, 2011)

I did not know you could retcon in real life. Huh. You learn something new every day, I guess...

One of my sources told me on Sunday that the staff was at the time discussing whether or not the Code of Conduct should be released. Early yesterday morning it was announced that the document _has been written_. Now, it's back to being in development? What?

Jesus Christ, throw out the goddamn document and work on fixing communication first. It's obvious THAT should be priority right now.


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## Browder (Aug 17, 2011)

Accountability said:


> One of my sources told me on Sunday.


?

Please. Share.


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## Corto (Aug 17, 2011)

Accountability said:


> I did not know you could retcon in real life. Huh. You learn something new every day, I guess...



Please do explain, because I have no idea what you mean.


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## Grandpriest (Aug 17, 2011)

Summercat said:


> For those wondering, I derped out my posts because I apparently was mistaken about what was going on. Not going to edit people's responses to me, though.


So much derp :O


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## Summercat (Aug 17, 2011)

Grandpriest said:


> So much derp :O



I don't always derp. But when I derp, I hurp.


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## Accountability (Aug 17, 2011)

Corto said:


> Please do explain, because I have no idea what you mean.



Well, up until your post, it had been implied twice (once publicly, the other from my source, which although secondhand, is reliable) that the Code of Conduct was already written. But then you posted that it was still in development and that's why it wasn't being released yet. Effectively a retcon of what's been known the past day or so.

(full disclosure: I just wanted to use that word. )


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## Fay V (Aug 17, 2011)

Accountability said:


> Well, up until your post, it had been implied twice (once publicly, the other from my source, which although secondhand, is reliable) that the Code of Conduct was already written. But then you posted that it was still in development and that's why it wasn't being released yet. Effectively a retcon of what's been known the past day or so.
> 
> (full disclosure: I just wanted to use that word. )



There's a difference between having something that is written and something that has been looked over and approved. There is something that has been written, there is a list of rules, but at the moment the staff are looking it over for any problems with what has been written down. 
Again there was a communication faux pas, but as it stands right now this is very important, we are taking the time to make sure we're completely happy with it before releasing rather than releasing it, then taking it down and re-releasing after noticing a flaw.


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## Devious Bane (Aug 17, 2011)

So let me get this right,
You say there *IS* a CoC written though in fact it *ISN'T* one completed and presentable but one that is _*BEING*_ worked on.
Now it makes sense. Guess we won't be seeing it until after 2012.


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## timoran (Aug 17, 2011)

Once again, FA announces something that isn't finished as if it's a done deal.

Can you guys add a clause to this CoC that forbids doing that?


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## Corto (Aug 17, 2011)

Accountability said:


> Well, up until your post, it had been implied twice (once publicly, the other from my source, which although secondhand, is reliable) that the Code of Conduct was already written. But then you posted that it was still in development and that's why it wasn't being released yet. Effectively a retcon of what's been known the past day or so.
> 
> (full disclosure: I just wanted to use that word. )



The public release I can blame on misinformation. Your "source" I don't care about because that's not official at all. Either way, not really a retcon, only someone fucking up the public release. But don't worry, it is being worked on, should be ready pronto.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Aug 17, 2011)

I'd rather wait to see a finished copy of the CoC than get one early with errors in it.


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## Kawaburd (Aug 18, 2011)

So then why the accountability annoucement before y'alls have anything to show for it? ;  I mean actions are the only thing people are gonna actually believe.


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## Fay V (Aug 18, 2011)

Kawaburd said:


> So then why the accountability annoucement before y'alls have anything to show for it? ;  I mean actions are the only thing people are gonna actually believe.



bad wording I suspect. having a CoC can mean anything from having the official one ready to go, and saying that one is being proof read now. people want the former, but got the latter.

If it makes you feel better there has been an "unwritten" CoC for as long as I've been around.


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## Devious Bane (Aug 18, 2011)

Fay V said:


> If it makes you feel better there has been an "unwritten" CoC for as long as I've been around.


_*Obviously, *_hence me being skeptical that a written one even exists or is being constructed. I see this being one of those things that runs around in limbo for X amount of time before people go "lolfuckthisshit" and completely forget about it even being mentioned.

It simply boils down to "lost in translation", or as you said, "bad wording". The announcement stated that "_we* have written *a new Staff Code Of Conduct which outlines requirements that all staff must adhere to_" when it fact it's something still in progress and won't be released any time soon.


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## Fay V (Aug 18, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> _*Obviously, *_hence me being skeptical that a written one even exists or is being constructed. I see this being one of those things that runs around in limbo for X amount of time before people go "lolfuckthisshit" and completely forget about it even being mentioned.
> 
> It simply boils down to "lost in translation", or as you said, "bad wording". The announcement stated that "_we* have written *a new Staff Code Of Conduct which outlines requirements that all staff must adhere to_" when it fact it's something still in progress and won't be released any time soon.



Except that it has been written. It's not swimming in the nebulous, there are words on a page, we said that already. We're proofing it at the moment. It's not something to say "fuckthisshit" about. It's something that we're saying "this is going to go out soon, we need to make sure it's exactly right and says exactly what we want it to." 
You know, so we don't have problems with bad wording.


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## Devious Bane (Aug 18, 2011)

Summercat said:


> I don't always derp. But when I derp, I hurp.





Fay V said:


> You know, so we don't have problems with bad wording.


Good luck.


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## timoran (Aug 18, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Except that it has been written. It's not swimming in the nebulous, there are words on a page, we said that already. We're proofing it at the moment. It's not something to say "fuckthisshit" about. It's something that we're saying "this is going to go out soon, we need to make sure it's exactly right and says exactly what we want it to."
> You know, so we don't have problems with bad wording.



What is the harm in releasing the current CoC, and then releasing an update later?


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## Corto (Aug 19, 2011)

timoran said:


> What is the harm in releasing the current CoC, and then releasing an update later?


That staff would be subject to standars that are not actually valid under the public eye? And the users would probably complain about any update, saying we are loosing the restraints on staff? When you write a new procedure for cops, you do not release the first draft and then modify as you please, you wait until you have something that can be applied with no problems and then let it fly. Same thing here. 
If we were to release the first draft you would have a) rules and codes that should not apply because maybe they are terribly wrong and b) the need to force this code of conduct on all staff because users are watching we abide by it. 

Nu-uh, that seems like a terrible idea. Best we first finish the damned thing and then release/implement it.


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## Fay V (Aug 19, 2011)

timoran said:


> What is the harm in releasing the current CoC, and then releasing an update later?



What Corto said. While it might make some users happy it would cause a lot of confusion as the userbase would expect the staff to live up to this CoC that they were not meant to, and possibly can't do. 
Any change we make after would just cause more ire "well why CAN'T you do this?" "Are you just changing this because you're all lazy?" posting something unfinished would just do more harm than good. We'll hamper our own attempts to put out a good product.


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## Devious Bane (Aug 19, 2011)

timoran said:


> What is the harm in releasing the current CoC, and then releasing an update later?


To shorten the previous 2 replies to this quote: _Because it makes them subject to more criticism. _
They'd just preferred to give us little to reference upon instead of perhaps a page's worth of material. This way, if they ended up changing something, it wouldn't reflect negatively on them since no one would know what has changed from the original draft. Here's where such situations inwhich information has been made viewable to us has been led:
1. AUP is constantly disputed and shoved into people's faces.
2. And ToS is constantly botched about. Though mainly the AUP would serve as the prime example of what we get when we list "standards", "rules", etc that have to be followed. People bawwing about how some rules are just bullshit perfect and others bawwing about how we need more rules. Also ends up being a tool to provoke drama.
A CoC for admins would be no different. The only thing I see different from this CoC and the AUP is that we can't expect the CoC to be updated no where near as often, so they better get it right the first time pray.


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## Armaetus (Aug 19, 2011)

Don't announce shit like that unless it's done or nearly done (within few days times).


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## timoran (Aug 19, 2011)

It's beginning to sound like getting FA admins to follow a code of conduct is like union negotiations.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Aug 19, 2011)

timoran said:


> It's beginning to sound like getting FA admins to follow a code of conduct is like union negotiations.



How can they follow a CoC if it isn't even finished yet?


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## Fay V (Aug 19, 2011)

Tiger In A Tie said:


> How can they follow a CoC if it isn't even finished yet?


I think the problem is they want a super fancy official one to start watching staff like a hawk, but they don't like the idea of staff taking the time to review one.


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Aug 20, 2011)

Fay V said:
			
		

> I think the problem is they want a super fancy official one to  start watching staff like a hawk, but they don't like the idea of staff  taking the time to review one.



No, people just don't want things announced before they are ready. Like the new interface, which was announced and meant to be out now but it really wasn't anywhere near ready.


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## Devious Bane (Aug 20, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Like the new interface, which was announced and meant to be out now but it really wasn't anywhere near ready.


Perfect example of where this is heading has been.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 20, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> No, people just don't want things announced before they are ready. Like the new interface, which was announced and meant to be out now but it really wasn't anywhere near ready.



I don't think the staff replying here were disagreeing with the fact the announcements were done prematurely. I think they are talking about the members/users that are still nitpicking over the whole issue. I don't mind the criticism and especially over the announcement itself since it gave the impression it's ready and out. However, if you look at the posts people are still arguing over it not being released now when it's not even done yet.

Even I'm a bit puzzled at that part.


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## Devious Bane (Aug 20, 2011)

Well, this is basically a case of "Pick your candy"
You could have A. Prematurely announced the existence of the CoC and get criticized for that or B. Prematurely released the CoC and be criticized about its contents/changes.
You chose option A, enjoy your treat.


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## Accountability (Aug 29, 2011)

So.

Two weeks.

More than enough time to work out the finer details. Where is it?


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## Devious Bane (Aug 29, 2011)

On the list of shit that will never get done.


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## Shay Feral (Aug 29, 2011)

The staff code of conduct will be similar to our code of conduct in terms of behavior, possibly stricter (assuming). But the big difference will be the fact that there will be details on how to act in various situations.

In the mean time if a moderator is being a dick or whatever just report them.


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## timoran (Sep 6, 2011)

So which will happen first?

Staff code of conduct released, or
This thread gets locked to bury the issue, like most complaints about FA posted on this forum.

I honestly don't expect FA to do the right thing on this one...


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## William (Sep 6, 2011)

It'll just get buried like everything else.


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## Charrio (Sep 7, 2011)

Yeah i am very curious about this too, kinda been too long to do simple editing. 

Why is it so hard to write a set of basic rules and then expect to follow them?
People in authority roles don't want to be responsible these days it seems.


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## Devious Bane (Sep 8, 2011)

I thought the President already made that quite clear.


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Sep 14, 2011)

Nearly a month now. How far along is it?


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## Armaetus (Sep 14, 2011)

Clandestine as usual, heh.


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## timoran (Sep 23, 2011)

I totally forgot to throw a celebration for the 1 month anniversary of the announcement that FA "has written" a code of conduct!

A month, and we still haven't seen it... Oh well, I won't forget the 2-month anniversary. Or 1-year.

Dragoneer and the other guy have not said ONE WORD about this... Interesting.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 23, 2011)

The set of rules are being worked on for our staff to follow. However, these are internal documents that is not for public viewing.

Having said that there will be a public document for our users to know the general guidelines/ something like a service commitment that is being worked on.

We do not have an ETA for latter document at this time.


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