# anyone think they can help me with this story?



## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

i've been working on this story i've got stuck in my head called bladerunner. ive got a  few of the basic details layed out. Any of you guys mind helping me with it?


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

Blade Runner has been used since the 80s.

But, if you want someone to brainstorm with, I'm available.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

you mind if i post what i got here, or you just want me to pm you?


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

Either or, up to you. I don't mind either.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

guess im just lazy, but i guess ill post here
just a heads up, this isn't the full story, but just a basic outline of it so far

hero discoveres power on accident on first day of school.

gets sent to the medroom. then is sent home.Hero leaves embarrassed.

the nurse is confused about the hero's power and calls doctor. doctor calls police. police call fbi to investigate, then from there cia.

cia invades hero's home and kills parents. covers up death to look like suicide.

brother, who is close to hero and shares his abilities, acts as distraction."cause that's what brothers do"

hero escapes while brother stays behind. head of cia is impressed by borther's abilities and takes him under his wing. hero doesn't know. promise made not to hurt hero.

hero can only run away and knows he can never go home. hero can only keep running.

Hero eventually becomes tired. hero falls, tired from walking. he believes he has lost. hero starts to black out. hero is found and taken in by those like him.

i haven't thought of names for anyone yet.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

Well, sounds alright for an outline, but I already see glaring plot holes. Allow me to explain:



> hero discoveres power on accident on first day of school.



Okay.... what power?



> cia invades hero's home and kills parents. covers up death to look like suicide.



Why? Why would the CIA want to kill his parents? Why does the CIA care at all about the hero? Is there a reason the CIA wants him? Is there a secret reason, or is the reason simply just to exploit his powers, whatever they may be?

I put so much emphasis on this point simply because those questions will be some of the most influential on the overall story.



> brother, who is close to hero and shares his abilities, acts as distraction."cause that's what brothers do"



If the brother has the same abilities as the hero, why would he agree to stay behind? That doesn't make sense. They would both run together.



> head of cia is impressed by borther's abilities and takes him under his wing.



Why would someone team up with someone who not only just killed their parents, but are trying to hunt down their brother?

The rest looks good.

Sorry if I seem a bit harsh - just trying to either clear things up or point out plot holes so the story runs smoothly when you do decide to write it.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

the power the hero has ive been kinda debating myself on, but i thought having the ability to create large metal spikes and/or blades from his arms. and later having the ability to make a large metal throwing star/boomerang come from his arm. think like infected. i figured that his body had a mutation where it naturally produced the mineral titanium, and he was able to harden and control the titanium in his bloodstream. this means that the spikes would appear where their were major arteries.

i had them invade the hero's home, because later in the story you find out how the parents also had this ability. the cia were enacting something called "operation fox trot" whereas to remove anyone who they found to have any "special" abilities.

ya, they are still planing to hunt down the brother, but he only took the brother under his wing because he promised that he would not harm the hero if he did. later you find out he was lying.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

bluewulf1 said:


> the power the hero has ive been kinda debating myself on, but i thought having the ability to create large metal spikes and/or blades from his arms.



You mean like the guy from Prototype?
Or Full Metal Alchemist?
Or Wolverene?

See where I'm going with this? ;D

Growing metal body parts (especially claws) is way overdone. I'd avoid that, but that's just me.



> i had them invade the hero's home, because later in the story you find out how the parents also had this ability. the cia were enacting something called "operation fox trot" whereas to remove anyone who they found to have any "special" abilities.



Yes, but why would the CIA want to remove all these people? Just for shits and giggles, or is there a _purpose?_ That's what I'm trying to get at.



> ya, they are still planing to hunt down the brother, but he only took the brother under his wing because he promised that he would not harm the hero if he did. later you find out he was lying.



Yes, but even still, they already killed his parents. Why would the brother agree to work with these people after his mother and father are dead, and try to help hunt down his only living close relative?


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

[QUOTE
Yes, but even still, they already killed his parents. Why would the brother agree to work with these people after his mother and father are dead, and try to help hunt down his only living close relative?[/QUOTE]

he did, because i figured as an older brother willing to do anything to make sure his younger brother was safe, he agreed on the promise that his younger brother would not be harmed.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

[QUOTE



Yes, but why would the CIA want to remove all these people? Just for shits and giggles, or is there a _purpose?_ That's what I'm trying to get at.]
generally, as society goes, when someone had any ability that is strange or out of the ordinary, people generally run screaming. most people are afraid of what they dont understand. so the cia takes it apon themself to make sure that people don't find out about these "abilities" by any means necessary


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

Baron Von Yiffington said:


> You mean like the guy from Prototype?
> Or Full Metal Alchemist?
> Or Wolverene?
> 
> ...



the blade wielding power is a little overused, but i figured that it was the coolest and most versitle ability.i've always kinda liked the infected style power. but mabe you might be able to come up with with a better one?


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Jul 7, 2009)

I always knew the CIA was evil.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

bluewulf1 said:


> he did, because i figured as an older brother willing to do anything to make sure his younger brother was safe, he agreed on the promise that his younger brother would not be harmed.



Yes, but now we've just gone in a circle. Why did he not run along WITH his brother after his parents were killed?



> generally, as society goes, when someone had any ability that is strange or out of the ordinary, people generally run screaming. most people are afraid of what they dont understand. so the cia takes it apon themself to make sure that people don't find out about these "abilities" by any means necessary



No offense, but if you want people to be interested in the story, you'll need more than "Humanity sometimes doesn't like weird things and the CIA is bad so they kill all the weird things". There needs to be a plot twist, something that keeps the reader interested. There are plenty of stories where the government wants to kill people for being different already.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

i guess i just figured, sence you don't learn that the brother started running with the cia until closer to the end of the story that the hero's main goal for most of the story would be finding his brother again. but sence he starts running with this group of people who also have "special abilities" and ends up trying to help more people in a situation like his. but also i guess also stopping feuds from other groups like his. feuds in this case can mean anything from disagreements to full out wars.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

bluewulf1 said:


> i guess i just figured, sence you don't learn that the brother started running with the cia until closer to the end of the story that the hero's main goal for most of the story would be finding his brother again.



Once again, we're back at square one.

Why does the brother stay behind and get captured by the CIA when he could simply run away along side his brother?

Also, if the whole point of the story is that the government doesn't want his "abilities" to get out to the public, what's to stop him from running into the middle of a city and showing off, effectively ruining the CIA's plan to keep it quiet?


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

operation fox trot was more than just removing anyone who looks suspicious. large emphasis was put on reporting anyone with any sort of powers. if anyone found out, they were supposed to report it to the authorities. basically, it wasn't something that was looked well apon.i've been debating with myself over solid reasons why they were hunting them down.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jul 7, 2009)

bluewulf1 said:


> operation fox trot was more than just removing anyone who looks suspicious. large emphasis was put on reporting anyone with any sort of powers. if anyone found out, they were supposed to report it to the authorities. basically, it wasn't something that was looked well apon.i've been debating with myself over solid reasons why they were hunting them down.



That's nice, but doesn't plug any of the plot holes I mentioned in the post above this one.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

the brother acted as a distraction, because the hero wouldn't have been able to make it out of the house on his own. he just found out about his power and didn't know how it worked or how to use it.It generally took alot of energy out of him also.His older brother already had some knowledge of his abilities and would try to fight them off as long as he could, or atleast until he could escape.  i figured, at this point that the hero is 13. the rest of the story starts 2 years later. when he is just starting highschool.


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## GraemeLion (Jul 7, 2009)

You're missing Von Yiffington's point. 

WHY does the CIA want him?  Why doesn't the CIA poison his lunch at school, or a stealth op?  Why kill the parents?  Where was he when his parents were killed?  Why go after the parents first?    How'd the CIA find out about him?

I bet some computers around Langley are going nuts right now.


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

they wanted to take them all out at once, but still wanted it to look like a suicide. they wanted to make it look like the hero or the hero's brother went crazy and killed the family. thus increasing the public's hatred of their kind.


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Jul 7, 2009)

It starts making sense with that last post, but you're not there yet.

Why not replace the CIA by a clandestine organisation with less power to justify they don't simply storm his house with marines?


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## bluewulf1 (Jul 7, 2009)

that's not bad, mabe a branch of the cia that was designed to handle and remove of their kind. it would have to be a government branch or someone who could tap into government data. mabe being a private corperation. mabe like a private millitary corp.


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## GraemeLion (Jul 7, 2009)

Something to note.. the CIA does not , typically (and even clandestinely) operate within the US.  That's NSA work.   CIA is outside, NSA is inside.


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## AshleyAshes (Jul 7, 2009)

Why would the doctor call the police?  What can they do about it?  If any doctor found anything he couldn't figure out, he'd start consulting specialists and bring in the CDC.


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## ScottyDM (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm not a huge spy/thriller fan, but to the best of my knowledge, *redcard is absolutely correct. Forget the CIA, they are not supposed to work inside the USA.*

*The biggest yawner about this whole thing is that it's all been done to death--hero/mutant/one-with-special-abilities is on the run from some shady government authority.* Isn't that the core idea behind 95% of modern books/movies/online-stories that have some kind of alien/mutant in them that takes place on earth?

*But the first exception that popped into my head was the MIB movies.*

So write an "MIB" movie. *Make your shadowy government agents the good guys.*

*If you were a government agent and you were here to help, then how would you interpret events?* What would you do if you went to this house out in Small Town America someplace, to talk to these people, and it turned out the parents where major conspiracy theorists who _hate_ the government. They immediately open fire and wound your partner and you end up shooting the dad. Then the mom turns the gun on herself vowing, "Ain't no gov'ment spooks gonna git their hands on me!" The kid walks in, sees his dead parents, and some guy in a fancy suit and tie with a gun (obvious government "type"), then runs out the door. Who is that kid and what does he know about the recent strange goings on?

Oh yea, why not make your government-agent/hero a furry, or a comic book fan, or both. His boss could walk into his office and say something like, "Jensen, put down that X-Men comic and go with Tyler. Seems there might be a real-live version of Wolverine hiding out in Small Town America." If you make him a furry you could set some scenes at a furry convention--perhaps the mutant goes there to hide out.

If you don't want to _write_ this story, then at least think this way for planning purposes. I think you'll see a lot of your plot holes go away when you approach your story this way.

S-


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## GraemeLion (Jul 7, 2009)

To be a writer, you have to see things from both sides.  You might not agree with things, but you should at least build a convincing and solid argument for why your opposition is behaving in this way.  If you cannot do that, than why would the opposition behave in this manner?

It sounds like you're bordering on writing a fursecution model.  Please don't.  

Please.  Please don't.  It's done to death.  It serves no purpose.. and often times it highlights more of a bigotry in the author than it does in the system that is being protested. 

I'm a huge fan of the techno-thriller genre that was created by Tom Clancy.  I'm also a fan of John Le Carre and Ian Fleming for the hard/soft spy novels.  It would do you good to understand that the most successful novels in the genre you're looking at are those that deal in shades of gray.. not black and white.


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## ScottyDM (Jul 8, 2009)

I belong to a live writers' group and we meet twice a week. Tuesday afternoons for a "write in" where we meet at a coffee shop and bring our notebooks for a bit of writing. And Thursday evenings for a sort of class/lesson in writing & storytelling with live critique the fourth Thursday each month. This past Thursday was about scene setting.


*This post is about fixing a plot hole by approaching how you think about a story or scene from a completely different angle.*

I'd been struggling with this novelette. A big reason for the struggle is the story is supposed to be difficult. Although not a spy thriller, it has as many plot convolutions as a Clancy novel... well, maybe less because it'll only be about 1/8 the size of a Clancy novel. But word-for-word it has as many twists and surprises as anything Clancy can invent. Or maybe one of the more outrageous episodes of _The Prisoner_. Remember that old show?

To make such a story work I absolutely need a unifying thread. I have a main plot line and two subplots. So the subplots _must_ stay in tune with the main plot. And every single scene _must_ support the plot or a subplot, or I dump it. With all the twists the readers will have a hard enough time following the action without driving the plot off into the weeds for a scene or two.

I also need to amp-up the danger, and the conflict.

When I started, I had the main character (MC), this kid, who is 18 and freshly graduated from high school. He made a promise to someone he genuinely cares about, but now he must break his promise. I had this vague idea that he would feel bad about breaking his promise, but no real clue how to achieve a sense that it was important... other than he'd disappoint the other person. And why bother to break the promise? He doesn't want to. Shouldn't he just flout society's expectations and do what he wants?

Then I began to see how the background situation could cause MC to lose his sanity. As in, he would need to be institutionalized and may never get better. My first subplot explores that. Then I began to see how keeping his promise to this other person could lead to the MC's death. One side-effect of keeping society's expectations is that he gets to survive.

The MC wants to follow his heart but he might go insane, society will hate him, and he will die. Or he can do the right thing, which makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, every fiber of his soul screams to follow his heart. And did I mention that the MC is addicted to this other person, the one he made a promise to? Like cigarettes laced with heroine. That kind of addiction.

Whoo hooo! Now that's some amped-up tension! 

Problem was I had some weak scenes. And I wasn't properly illustrating the MC's danger for the readers. In particular I had one scene that was giving me trouble. The MC meets with the father of the MC's beloved. There is a bit of a discussion about the future, the father refuses to help the MC out of his dilemma, and some information is passed to the reader.

Yea, a real yawner.

Then last Thursday we had our lesson on setting.

*The trouble scene takes place in the father's inner sanctum. The MC is just a guest. I pictured dark woods, deep carpeting, and old leather. Silent, except for the somber ticking of an old brass clock. And the room is heavy with a musty scent, old books, dust, and tobacco.*

The poor MC, this 18 year old kid, is intimidated up to his eyeballs. The father could release him from his promise. But instead the father offers him some 24-year-old single malt scotch, neat, and a Cuban cigar. The father thinks the kid is daft, but fully supports his flouting of society's conventions. In fact, the old man will help in any way he can.

So now the MC wonders, _Why is he helping me?_

There _is_ a sinister reason behind it. The father doesn't necessarily want to kill the MC, but being a different species he doesn't quite understand the physical danger to the MC.

In effect the father calls the MC "daft" as a sort of public service announcement. Like saying, "You really shouldn't do this." But then he thinks, _Now that the little safety and sanity announcement is out of the way, let me pull you deeper into your addiction. Let me use you. Because using you is cheaper than any other solution I can dream up. And never mind any sort of physical toll on your body... that sort of stuff is over hyped anyway. Isn't it?_

*I got this sinister vibe from the setting. It's dark, comfortable, quiet, rich, and oh so seductive to the senses!* And here is this father doing the opposite the MC expected, and offering to suck him deeper into danger.

The setting helped me see what the father was up to. It helped me define his sinister side. Before that, the father was going to _allow_ this to happen. Now he _wants_ this to happen, and will use the seductive setting to try to gain his agenda.


*There is a psychology of place.* For example a conversation between mother and daughter takes on a completely different tone if you change the setting: A living room -vs- a prison -vs- the bedroom of a former lover.


What is the character's goal in this scene?
Is there a second character? If so, what is their goal in this scene?
Is the place where the scene takes place important to the scene? If not can you work to make it important?
Summary of points 1 - 3: The scene goal.
What is the scene question? That is, can the goal be achieved?
Is this scene relevant to the premise of the story? If not, then why do you have it?
What key details would make this scene lifelike?
What are examples of the six senses in this scene?
Smell?
Sound?
Sight?
Touch?
Taste?
Emotions/feelings?

Has your character been to this particular location before? If so, how has their perception of it changed?
What is the social context? Political, social trends, puberty, death.
What is the psychology of the scene? The mood and emotions.
How would the narrator describe this scene/setting?
How would the character describe this scene/setting?
How does your character interact with this scene/setting?

Scotty


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