# The stigma of "acting furry".



## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

"Don't proclaim yourself a furry anywhere outside of the internet, don't wear shirts that have furry slogans on them outside of conventions and for the love god DON'T wear tails in public."

Why is there such a push to not show any of your being furry outside of the internet/outside of cons? Why are we so wrapped up in upholding a bizarre way of acting that we ostracize people who are open about being furry? i can't say i really understand it. people act like it's such an embarrassing thing to do when, honestly, it gets almost nothing but positive reactions out of people for me (and i live in the bible belt, y'all in progressive areas have no excuses for hating). People love my tail. yea, i get stared at when i do wear it (which isn't too often as i'm worried someone will yank it off), but you're gonna get stared at regardless nowadays; people have no manners anymore. So, why the stigma?


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## Butters Shikkon (Jan 7, 2015)

To be honest, they are kinda like those nerds in school that are trying very very hard not to be unliked. 

A lot of the furries who have been out of high school for a long time don't give a fuck. See D. Batty.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

Butters Shikkon said:


> To be honest, they are kinda like those nerds in school that are trying very very hard not to be unliked.
> 
> A lot of the furries who have been out of high school for a long time don't give a fuck. See D. Batty.



that reminds me of a post on tumblr i saw that was like:

Me, age 13: Um, no, I'm not a 'furry' call it 'anthro' -please-. I don't associate with smelly nerds and perverts. Can't you tell from the "ANTI-FURRY PORN" button on my deviantart journal? Also, I type like this.
Me, my 20s: who wants THE ULTIMATE MOTHERFUCKING YIFF


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## Zop (Jan 7, 2015)

1. Guy wears tail. Happens to be a loud autistic retard.
2. Someone meets first furry in their life. It is inevitably loud autistic retard with tail, because vocal minorities get lots of attention. 
3. ????
4. We seem like weird fucks.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

Zop said:


> 1. Guy wears tail. Happens to be a loud autistic retard.
> 2. Someone meets first furry in their life. It is inevitably loud autistic retard with tail, because vocal minorities get lots of attention.
> 3. ????
> 4. We seem like weird fucks.



i'd be much more embarrassed to be around someone calling people "autistic retards" than i would someone wearing a tail and acting goofy.


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## GarthTheWereWolf (Jan 7, 2015)

I think they're more worried people would actually look up what furry is, stumble upon something like FA, see anthro dog dong and then make the not so far leap of logic to furry = dog fucker.


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## Zop (Jan 7, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i'd be much more embarrassed to be around someone calling people "autistic retards" than i would someone wearing a tail and acting goofy.



I guess I didn't mean that everyone with a tail was a "loud autistic retard". No if someone can do that and act goofy, more power to them.

I meant "loud and autistic" in a more literal sense.


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## Xela-Dasi (Jan 7, 2015)

I dont know. As butters Shikkon said, people need to learn to not give a fuck. And those that insist in telling people to stop "acting furry" are just very insecure of themselves


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## mcjoel (Jan 7, 2015)

I use horrible fur puns in every day situations get offended really easily an attempt to yiff everything with a tail :V


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## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

GarthTheWereWolf said:


> I think they're more worried people would actually look up what furry is, stumble upon something like FA, see anthro dog dong and then make the not so far leap of logic to furry = dog fucker.



On that note, though, you can find anything inappropriate if you google it tho. i could wear a pokemon shirt and someone googling it would find smut easily.


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 7, 2015)

Just stick it to cons and events. Furryism is *NOT *a lifestyle. Pushing that shit into people face is the same as being a filthy disgusting weeaboo that discusses about anthro porns in public instead of animoos.


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## Brass (Jan 7, 2015)

Because manchildren and sperglords shaped the furry fandom that way. You only ever experience stigma if you behave like the above mentioned or you act like a special snowflake because you're a furfag. Avoid those things then most people will treat you no differently than the typically nerdy person, or no differently at all. For example don't wear a shirt with "yiff" on it in public. Or your tail. It's con gear. There is an appropriate time for cosplay.



dirtypaws said:


> On that note, though, you can find anything  inappropriate if you google it tho. i could wear a pokemon shirt and  someone googling it would find smut easily.



Pokemon is a widely known family IP. Most people can make the distinction between what is and what isn't fan art. You can't compare the two.


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## GarthTheWereWolf (Jan 7, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> On that note, though, you can find anything inappropriate if you google it tho. i could wear a pokemon shirt and someone googling it would find smut easily.



I did a google image search for the phrase "furry." These were in the results from the top 4 lines

first line (busty bathing suit~ possibly nsfw)
second line (mildly nsfw)
third line (Definitely nsfw ~ penetration)
fourth line (weird enough its prolly nsfw)

Now to compare for google image search on "pokemon"

first line
second line
third line
fourth line

Its far far easier to find the more unfavorable aspects of the furry fandom easily from just a short search.... even at just a glance.


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## monochromatic-dragon (Jan 7, 2015)

ditto


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## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> Just stick it to cons and events. Furryism is *NOT *a lifestyle. Pushing that shit into people face is the same as being a filthy disgusting weeaboo that discusses about anthro porns in public instead of animoos.



Sounds like someone doesn't have a tail to wear in public.


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## Brass (Jan 7, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Sounds like someone doesn't have a tail to wear in public.



"You're not eating shit because you don't have any shit to eat! Haaaaa haaaaa!"


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## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

Brass said:


> "You're not eating shit because you don't have any shit to shit! Haaaaa haaaaa!"



i really admire your closeness to me, i feel like we're really getting to know eachother.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jan 7, 2015)

He's just a relic.  He'll get the swing of things soon enough.


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## Brass (Jan 7, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i really admire your closeness to me, i feel like we're really getting to know eachother.



You're going to have to do better than flattery and playful banter to become MY favourite shit poster.


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 7, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Sounds like someone doesn't have a tail to wear in public.



No but I have a lot of edge.


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## TrishaCat (Jan 7, 2015)

There's nothing wrong with "acting furry" or any such things. Do what you enjoy.
Its mostly just that its unusual and some that are more uncomfortable with such unusual things too easily cringe. If you're okay with it than no problem.

There's a dude at my college who wears a tail to the anime club here. Its a metal scaly tail and he swings it around all the time for fun. He's very outward about his furriness. He's gotten one or two weird looks but nothing to worry about and most people think the dude is pretty all right. Heck, he wrote on the board in the middle of a club's meeting that he was holding a furry party at his house and was inviting anyone to come. And most people are okay with that.


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## Brass (Jan 7, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> No but I have a lot of edge.



I can attest to this. Bastard gave us a bunch of cuts in the art group. Ruins furniture too.


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## ZettaBit (Jan 7, 2015)

I agree with Garth. It's more the negative associations that make it hard. Although I seem to get little to no response from my hoodie. Sometimes I cannot shake the feeling that people are laughing behind my back though xD


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## dirtypaws (Jan 7, 2015)

Battlechili1 said:


> There's nothing wrong with "acting furry" or any such things. Do what you enjoy.
> Its mostly just that its unusual and some that are more uncomfortable with such unusual things too easily cringe. If you're okay with it than no problem.
> 
> There's a dude at my college who wears a tail to the anime club here. Its a metal scaly tail and he swings it around all the time for fun. He's very outward about his furriness. He's gotten one or two weird looks but nothing to worry about and most people think the dude is pretty all right. Heck, he wrote on the board in the middle of a club's meeting that he was holding a furry party at his house and was inviting anyone to come. And most people are okay with that.



yea, like, a lot of my coworkers know about my being furry and no one cares. it's really not as big a deal as the internet makes it seem like it would be. people even ask me about it, 'cause i use my vacation time to go to cons. they've asked me about my characters, if i draw, asked to see my fursuit and my friends' fursuits, and so on. some people who are really internet-savvy have made a few cracks about it but no one really has been negative.


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 8, 2015)

Brass said:


> I can attest to this. Bastard gave us a bunch of cuts in the art group. Ruins furniture too.



With so many cuts you can write a fucking book about it.


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Jan 8, 2015)

I dunno, I'm really starting to hate ship paws and brass :V

There's some serious black flirting going on here o3o


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

WolfNightV4X1 said:


> I dunno, I'm really starting to hate ship you two
> 
> There's some serious black flirting going on here o3o



i get that boys tend to bully the ones they have crushes on but this is just getting out of hand.


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## Misomie (Jan 8, 2015)

I'm pretty sure it has to do with butthurt furs taking offense to what strangers say to them and then whinning about it. Other furs then just got sick of the complaining so they spread stuff like this around.

People can wear what they want (as long as it's decent for public) as long as they are willing to deal with what strangers might call them. If they can't, then they should obviously watch what they wear.


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i get that boys tend to bully the ones they have crushes on but this is just getting out of hand.



Tell him you're taken


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

WolfNightV4X1 said:


> Tell him you're taken



i wonder if it'd make his head spin to not only know i'm taken but also that i wear a collar 24/7 as a part of it...a collar with a big ol' BONE-SHAPED tag.


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## Brass (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i get that boys tend to bully the ones they have crushes on but this is just getting out of hand.



You're the one flirting with me. Baka. Also I'm taken.


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## PastryOfApathy (Jan 8, 2015)

I don't want to explain what furfaggtry is to people and have them ask why they saw some dude in a mascot costume fucking a pillow. Besides no one likes being associated with furfaggotry's many _special_ members.


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## mcjoel (Jan 8, 2015)

Brass and DP need to fuck already.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

PastryOfApathy said:


> I don't want to explain what furfaggtry is to people and have them ask why they saw some dude in a mascot costume fucking a pillow. Besides no one likes being associated with furfaggotry's many _special_ members.



no one MAKES you explain it though. people ask why i wear a tail, i tell them "cause i like it". like, who really is MAKING you explain "well it's about my interest in anthropomorphic animals that sometimes bone and i really like that but i also like to pretend i don't."


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## Riltmos (Jan 8, 2015)

I'll just quote Professor Oak "There is a time and place for everything!" Like even though I love my Knights of the Blood Oath costume, my pajamas, and some...various accessories, a normal public area is not exactly the best place to wear them. They look silly, and collars and tails clash with EVERYTHING, but then again I also hate hats with a passion, wear a steampunk styled outfit every other day, and wore a four piece suit to Disney World in summer so I may not be the best person to go to for fashion advice. But still, by Akatosh's scaley nethers, collars and tails are not something to wear in normal public areas!


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

Riltmos said:


> I'll just quote Professor Oak "There is a time and place for everything!" Like even though I love my Knights of the Blood Oath costume, my pajamas, and some...various accessories, a normal public area is not exactly the best place to wear them. They look silly, and collars and tails clash with EVERYTHING, but then again I also hate hats with a passion, wear a steampunk styled outfit every other day, and wore a four piece suit to Disney World in summer so I may not be the best person to go to for fashion advice. But still, by Akatosh's scaley nethers, collars and tails are not something to wear in normal public areas!



Look i'm not talkin shit but i'ma say furry stuff probably flows a lot better into society than steampunk yaknow??


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## Teckolf (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Look i'm not talkin shit but i'ma say furry stuff probably flows a lot better into society than steampunk yaknow??


Debatable, and while I would probably go out in fur gear if I actually owned anything more than breed specific dog shirts, I see why it wouldnt be advised... Then again I run out in grease soaked jeans, torn boots, and ratty t-shirts...


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 8, 2015)

I don't act furry because it is associated with dogfuckers and general retards. 

It's just a smart thing to do


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Look i'm not talkin shit but i'ma say furry stuff probably flows a lot better into society than steampunk yaknow??



Ohshitreally?

We have people cosplaying Steampunk stuffs everywhere. Steampunk games are very popular. Blah blah. You don't get shit for wearing those because they're somewhat stylish.

But yadayada yeah, I guess furry stuffs are really more acceptable to the point it bring tear gas to my eyes.



Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> I don't act furry because it is associated with dogfuckers and general retards.
> 
> It's just a smart thing to do



Hai


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## Brass (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Look i'm not talkin shit but i'ma say furry stuff probably flows a lot better into society than steampunk yaknow??



I'm really interested in why you think this.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

Brass said:


> I'm really interested in why you think this.



because wearing a tail in public or a shirt with something furry-related on it is honestly pretty chill nowadays. Animals are in popular fashion, even clothing corporations are selling tails now (and yes, i do mean more than Hot Topic). and furry slogans kinda go undetected for the most part. like, i wore a shirt that said "furries ruin everything" to work and my supervisor thought "furries" were hairy men. he was disappointed i would say things like that about him (which was, honestly, much less comfortable than if a furry had seen that shirt).

Steampunk is still a fringe community. it's not in popular clothing stores like tails and wolf shirts and shit like that are. it would still be weird to see someone in a tophat with a fuckin clock inside it out in public. cool, but weird.


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## galaxy-meow (Jan 8, 2015)

What stores are selling tails? Are they real or obnoxiously brightly colored?
I have two tails that I clip to my purse because it's cute and stylish, not furry related in the slightest and I wouldn't mind expanding my collection.


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## sniperfreak223 (Jan 8, 2015)

I wear tails like...all the time D:

I really don't understand the whole thing though...as long as you're not obnoxious about it I don't see why you can't act furry outside of cons and such.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

galaxy-meow said:


> What stores are selling tails? Are they real or obnoxiously brightly colored?
> I have two tails that I clip to my purse because it's cute and stylish, not furry related in the slightest and I wouldn't mind expanding my collection.



Hot topic sells them in stores, but i've seen a clothing retailers selling them online too.


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## galaxy-meow (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Hot topic sells them in stores, but i've seen a clothing retailers selling them online too.



hot topic sells everything, i'm talking about real stores. like, names.


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## Mr. Sparta (Jan 8, 2015)

Where I am, I run into a lot of people who try to hide their power level. To most people, they seem normal. But being observant, I pick up their clues and retrace their trail of furfaggotry. Then, they might let something slip that makes it certain, and I'll be there with a look like, _I know what you are!_

You could almost smell the fear.


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## Joey (Jan 8, 2015)

I complimented a random girl on her dog collar once and she just looked at me awkwardly. -Um... hello?


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## Brass (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> because wearing a tail in public or a shirt with something furry-related on it is honestly pretty chill nowadays. Animals are in popular fashion, even clothing corporations are selling tails now (and yes, i do mean more than Hot Topic). and furry slogans kinda go undetected for the most part. like, i wore a shirt that said "furries ruin everything" to work and my supervisor thought "furries" were hairy men. he was disappointed i would say things like that about him (which was, honestly, much less comfortable than if a furry had seen that shirt).
> 
> Steampunk is still a fringe community. it's not in popular clothing stores like tails and wolf shirts and shit like that are. it would still be weird to see someone in a tophat with a fuckin clock inside it out in public. cool, but weird.



Animals. Not furry. You just told a story about how furry is so obscure that your supervisor didn't understand the reference, and was confused by it. Then you went on to say that steampunk is also obscure and no one would understand it. I'm not seeing how one is more mainstream than the other here. It just seems like you're being arbitrary.


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## pinkie (Jan 8, 2015)

I've found that I have this'd Dirtypaws more than anyone else. I agree, there's really nothing to be ashamed of. But then again I have completely no shame. I wear the spirit hoods and even my collar in public! I dont have my fursuit yet. Most people know me to be one and think nothing of it. 

but do I look like a person who gives a fuck about what people think 







the main reason Im here and back in the fandom is because I just stopped caring and decided being myself and indulging in all my interests would cause me less hassle than trying to hide things just because it's not considered the coolest thing to like or be.


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## Brass (Jan 8, 2015)

pinkie said:


> I've found that I have this'd Dirtypaws more than anyone else. I agree, there's really nothing to be ashamed of. But then again I have completely no shame. I wear the spirit hoods and even my collar in public! I dont have my fursuit yet. Most people know me to be one and think nothing of it.
> 
> but do I look like a person who gives a fuck about what people think
> 
> ...



oh wow I can't breath

Yeah Pinkie you totally don't have any shame, huh?


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

pinkie said:


> I've found that I have this'd Dirtypaws more than anyone else. I agree, there's really nothing to be ashamed of. But then again I have completely no shame. I wear the spirit hoods and even my collar in public! I dont have my fursuit yet. Most people know me to be one and think nothing of it.
> 
> but do I look like a person who gives a fuck about what people think
> 
> ...



i truly adore you, honestly. you look like such a fun person to be around.


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## monochromatic-dragon (Jan 8, 2015)

As long as ur chill about it I don't see the issue.
Maybe its because I'm really, really new to the fandom, but I actually would like one of my furry accessories to attract the attention of another furry because I've never met one in person before. But all of my tails are pretty obnoxious so I've avoided wearing them on non-occasions. I wear my dragon hoodie all of the time but nobody has made the connection yet, or at least voiced it openly.


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## pinkie (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i truly adore you, honestly. you look like such a fun person to be around.


Aw thank you!!! ^u^


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## Butters Shikkon (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i truly adore you, honestly. you look like such a fun person to be around.



I like your style and wig. I raise my glass to ya gurl!


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## pinkie (Jan 8, 2015)

Butters Shikkon said:


> I like your style and wig. I raise my glass to ya gurl!


that's my hair (;


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## Butters Shikkon (Jan 8, 2015)

pinkie said:


> that's my hair (;



omfg. How do you get so much volume?


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## pinkie (Jan 8, 2015)

Butters Shikkon said:


> omfg. How do you get so much volume?


I tease it a LOT! haha


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## Booker (Jan 8, 2015)

I don't see an issue wearing a shirt of furry reference or if you so choose to have a tail. It is just how you like to express yourself. But also don't get all bent if people treat you different, isn't that why you put that tail on in the first place?!? 

I'm not one to advertise my more obscure interest publicly, kinda. I drag race and at the track will be a bit more eccentric. I may have a tail on, and for 10 years 2 of my cars always had tails. Some of the younger racers may ask WTF but most the hardcore old school racers saw it as self expression. Also a tiger tail on a Pontiac is normal at a dragstrip.


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## VÃ¦r (Jan 8, 2015)

My tail brings in all the tips at work :V


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## Plastic-Fox (Jan 8, 2015)

Booker said:


> Also a tiger tail on a Pontiac is normal at a dragstrip.



NICE!!!

I recommend for those who want to show but keep it down low a tail keychain. See who makes repeated eye contact with it and you asking "(maybe another furry?)" to themselves.


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## PastryOfApathy (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> no one MAKES you explain it though. people ask why i wear a tail, i tell them "cause i like it". like, who really is MAKING you explain "well it's about my interest in anthropomorphic animals that sometimes bone and i really like that but i also like to pretend i don't."



Retards drawing their self-inserts fucking Digimon characters is unavoidable when someone inevitably Googles the word 'furry'. Better to avoid the association entirely instead as opposed to waiting until I'm asked what "being yiffy" means. Besides it's pretty much a fetish at this point anyways whether I like it or not so I'll treat it like one.

PS. Tails look stupid.


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## And (Jan 8, 2015)

That's pretty cool that you can accidentally post something while you're still writing it....

Whoever set the permissions on this forum is an asshole, forget the post.


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## Brass (Jan 8, 2015)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Retards drawing their self-inserts fucking Digimon characters is unavoidable when someone inevitably Googles the word 'furry'. Better to avoid the association entirely instead as opposed to waiting until I'm asked what "being yiffy" means. Besides it's pretty much a fetish at this point anyways whether I like it or not so I'll treat it like one.
> 
> PS. Tails look stupid.



It's a huge can of worms. At least with weaboo, comic, and trekie shit you can brush it off if you look like a functioning adult. But oh no. The furry fandom's smut and filth just seems to permeate the internet. Some other good examples are bronies and homestucks. Cancerous fanbases ruin public relations.


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## Wrobel (Jan 8, 2015)

Eh, you see a lot of that kinda thing in Cali, more in some areas than others. I mostly just kinda smile and chuckle to myself, maybe give a chin jerk. Not like it's my business what someone does in their spare time. Then I remember I live in Fresno and there's just so much weirder shit to freak out about.

Basically I probably wouldnt do it myself, but I see no real issue with it. Just people having some fun. Long as they realize they're gonna get some funky reactions (and really isnt that the point? :v) they can do what the hell they want. I just hope they're not going to job interviews and stuff and expecting to be taken seriously.

edit: And yeah god help what ever poor uninitiated soul goes from seeing someone wearing a tail and ears to looking up furry on a whim (not sure who the hell does that, but hey). That shit (sometimes literally) will traumatize you if you aren't prepared for it.


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## Ayattar (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> but you're gonna get stared at regardless nowadays; people have no manners anymore.



Yyy... with that amount of piercings you're surprised that they're staring at you? What's surprising nobody is staring at me. Maybe it's because I'm usually wearing a jacket and elegant shirt. No piercings, no tattoos, clean haircut, good cologne. I don't know. But most probably it's the people being well-mannered here. Obviously.
Shit, you voluntarilly took an image of an outcast and now you're surprised. I remember the times when I had long hair (50cm+ would you believe) and was wearing clothes only black as the satan's ass itself. But it passed. I still have my boots and few t-shirts with my favourite bands (well, my music taste also changed a lot) but I wear them as normal pieces of clothing.
 Hopefully one day you'll understand and grow up too.

You know what's associated with furry?
No? 
Then go to the main page and put the NSFW filter off.

And then stop asking questions like this one.



dirtypaws said:


> Steampunk is still a fringe community. it's not  in popular clothing stores like tails and wolf shirts and shit like  that are. it would still be weird to see someone in a tophat with a  fuckin clock inside it out in public. cool, but weird.



Then go out of Murrginia, I don't know, maybe attend to a fantasy con? Here it's the other way around. I don't think that I ever saw a furry, but people with jewelry or clothes inspired by steampunk and generally fantasy - a shitton.



pinkie said:


> the main reason Im here and back in the fandom is  because I just stopped caring and decided being myself and indulging in  all my interests would cause me less hassle than trying to hide things  just because it's not considered the coolest thing to like or  be.



Going out to the society and crushing everything with your boots - way to go, we need more people like you.


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## BadRoy (Jan 8, 2015)

Because furries aren't exactly darlings of the public eye. See that newswoman who was so skeeved by furries that she laughed at the chlorine gassing on air.

Plus I do wear furryness on my sleeve, it's just not explicit. There's no need to wear loud, obnoxious furry stuff when almost everything I enjoy involves anthros. 
Anyone who meets me will put 2 and 2 together in a day.


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## Calemeyr (Jan 8, 2015)

Too much emphasis on porn in the fandom, too many borderline criminals at cons, and too much creepiness in general. That's why I wouldn't announce being a "furry". This fandom is too weird for that.

Don't get me wrong, I like the art (sometimes) and am even a suiter, but damn, furry can be a little creepy. Doesn't help that some of the loudest members are also some of the most hardcore. And they scare me away from cons.

Even if the fandom's image was fine, I still wouldn't wear a tail in public, because it just looks like a cry for attention, and you won't get a job acting like that. It just comes off as unhealthy escapism, you know? Treating any fandom as a lifestyle will.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

Calemeyr said:


> Even if the fandom's image was fine, I still wouldn't wear a tail in public, because it just looks like a cry for attention, and you won't get a job acting like that. It just comes off as unhealthy escapism, you know? Treating any fandom as a lifestyle will.



i never have understood this concept of "you won't get a job like that", like people wear tails to job interviews? What you wear out in your free time doesn't affect your interviews, nor does it affect job performance. i feel like there's just such a bizarre demand to hold up social norms that people tell others to essentially have less fun with their lives because it's not "normal", when you can enjoy yourself and still hold a functioning job just fine.


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## shteev (Jan 8, 2015)

I bought a tail at a renaissance fair and wore it around, no one asked me anything about it - not even the people I was with.

I think that we should just do what we do without fear of looking weird. People can have problems with it, sure, and a lot of people will most likely be weirded out at the sight of, say, a furcon.

But we're doing nothing wrong. It's a little like a nude beach, we're enjoying ourselves and what we like to do in the company of people with similar mindsets. People can have problems with it all night and day, but we shouldn't bother changing our behavior in the interest of garnering less heat from bystanders.

We shouldn't, however, shove the fandom in the faces of people who don't want to associate with it, and, in public settings, keep interactions PG under all circumstances. 

That being said, I feel like most cons are well organized and handled, and most attendees are respectful. The above concerns are probably not too pertinent


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## Calemeyr (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i never have understood this concept of "you won't get a job like that", like people wear tails to job interviews? What you wear out in your free time doesn't affect your interviews, nor does it affect job performance. i feel like there's just such a bizarre demand to hold up social norms that people tell others to essentially have less fun with their lives because it's not "normal", when you can enjoy yourself and still hold a functioning job just fine.


Functioning job yes, but is it a good one? The higher up you go, the more you have to follow rigid social norms.

I have loads of fun in my life, and I don't need to wear a tail on the street for that. Whether that be video games or hiking, fine food or, yes, fursuits, it's all fun. I like anime. But I don't go around dressed like Ed Elric. It's too attention-seeking, it clashes with what everyone else is wearing, and it would only isolate me from everyone. I want to make friends with normal people. I can be a little eccentric in my life, but I sure wouldn't make that such a big thing that only furries or teenagers would talk to me as not a creeper.

This is because I am no longer a teenager. I'd dress up (in full realistic fursuit to scare people ha) at a con or renn faire, but I wouldn't do it outside them.

Can you imagine how creepy it would be for a 40 year old man to be wearing ears and a tail and act like a teenager? That would make me go to the other side of the street.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

Calemeyr said:


> Functioning job yes, but is it a good one? The higher up you go, the more you have to follow rigid social norms.
> 
> I have loads of fun in my life, and I don't need to wear a tail on the street for that. Whether that be video games or hiking, fine food or, yes, fursuits, it's all fun. I like anime. But I don't go around dressed like Ed Elric. It's too attention-seeking, it clashes with what everyone else is wearing, and it would only isolate me from everyone. I want to make friends with normal people. I can be a little eccentric in my life, but I sure wouldn't make that such a big thing that only furries or teenagers would talk to me as someone who doesn't live in a subway tunnel.



not necessarily. there are a lot of very well-off jobs that don't have that rigid of standards. i work for the government, for example and, as ayattar pointed out, i'm very heavily modded and i wear weird style stuff a lot. their rules are pretty much "don't wear shit that gets caught in the machines" (which means no tails, unfortunately). i guess i just don't understand the need to "fit with everyone else" as you kinda described, but everyone's different.


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## Selachi (Jan 8, 2015)

I actually remember there was a small circle of furries at my high school. They wore tails and ears, made "squeeeee!" noises in the hallways, and acted generally bizarre. If that's what you mean by "acting furry", that isn't something that I want to be associated with. Even without strange behavior, I believe that there is a time and place for certain things, so no I don't make it obvious or even mention it around anyone who isn't a furry. From an objective standpoint, the furry fandom is such a weird concept. you just can't expect the average person to get it, and I can respect that.

(With that said, if i'm talking to a like-minded fur, the conversation tends to get furfaggy rather quickly. Like I said, time and place though...)


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 8, 2015)

monochromatic-dragon said:


> As long as ur chill about it I don't see the issue.
> Maybe its because I'm really, really new to the fandom, but I actually would like one of my furry accessories to attract the attention of another furry because I've never met one in person before. But all of my tails are pretty obnoxious so I've avoided wearing them on non-occasions. I wear my dragon hoodie all of the time but nobody has made the connection yet, or at least voiced it openly.



This is why FA should sell pins / patches / keychains / bumper stickers of the FA paw icon + caption: "FA"


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## Bonobosoph (Jan 8, 2015)

VÃ¦r said:


> My tail brings in all the tips at work :V



I read that in my mind to the tune of Milkshake by Kelis. 

For every 3 tshirts I've got, there's one with chimps on it. That I can guarantee. (I have a lot of clothes in general.) But I don't see that as acting furry because people equate more woodlandy critter animals with furries, so if I wore a hat with fox ears on it poeple would make the connection. A tshirt with a gorilla on it? No one knooooooows.
I do like animal based accessories regardless of furry stuffs, I have one of those hood/hat things with wolfy looking ears on them and fluffy pockets. But that's because I like those hoods. Sod all to do with this stuff.


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## Troj (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> "Don't proclaim yourself a furry anywhere outside of the internet, don't wear shirts that have furry slogans on them outside of conventions and for the love god DON'T wear tails in public."....So, why the stigma?



Yes, it's certainly a double standard when other types of geeks generally get to "fly the colours" without automatically receiving blowback or judgment. (I admit that I might not be aware of how various fandoms hassle each other.) 

Part of the issue may be that some people believe that furry is a sexual fetish. So, when these people see a tail or a furry themed t-shirt, they picture the _depraved and perverted _things that furry _clearly _does in the sack.

As others have noted, another part of the problem may be that other people have had previous bad encounters with young, socially awkward furries who attention whored about their furriness and then threw a hissy fit when people told them to tone it down. I suspect some people hate weeabos for a similar reason.

It occurs to me that a few people might also gag on the cutesy or playful antics of of the prototypical fursuiter, because they fancy themselves too hip or too mature for that sort of thing. "Cooler" characters who are more chill and low-key tend to go over much better with these types. 

I think Butters is also right that people (especially bullies and trolls) can smell insecurity and tentativeness. People tend to respect someone who is confident and self-assured, but not pushy or inappropriate.


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## Ozriel (Jan 8, 2015)

I care less about a person wearing a tail, collar, and ears in public.
I guess it really depends on how you indulge in your hobby or whatnot. The stigma deals with how furries, usually individuals, set the bar for other people or "outsiders".


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## Brass (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> not necessarily. there are a lot of very well-off jobs that don't have that rigid of standards. i work for the government, for example and, as ayattar pointed out, i'm very heavily modded and i wear weird style stuff a lot. their rules are pretty much "don't wear shit that gets caught in the machines" (which means no tails, unfortunately). i guess i just don't understand the need to "fit with everyone else" as you kinda described, but everyone's different.



By work for the government do you mean janitor because I feel like you're a janitor or in an entry level position at best.


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## Joey (Jan 8, 2015)

Calemeyr said:


> Too much emphasis on porn in the fandom, too many borderline criminals at cons, and too much creepiness in general. That's why I wouldn't announce being a "furry". This fandom is too weird for that.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like the art (sometimes) and am even a suiter, but damn, furry can be a little creepy. Doesn't help that some of the loudest members are also some of the most hardcore. And they scare me away from cons.
> 
> Even if the fandom's image was fine, I still wouldn't wear a tail in public, because it just looks like a cry for attention, and you won't get a job acting like that. It just comes off as unhealthy escapism, you know? Treating any fandom as a lifestyle will.



A million times this.


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## Troj (Jan 8, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> i never have understood this concept of "you won't get a job like that", like people wear tails to job interviews? What you wear out in your free time doesn't affect your interviews, nor does it affect job performance. i feel like there's just such a bizarre demand to hold up social norms that people tell others to essentially have less fun with their lives because it's not "normal", when you can enjoy yourself and still hold a functioning job just fine.



Yep---the obvious answer is to not dress in your geek swag when attending a fancy or formal gathering, applying for a job or similar position, or, perhaps, when going on a blind date. 

Otherwise, I tend to think "normalcy" is grossly overrated. 

From there, that a job site would freak out about (for example) my fursuiting or fur-con attendance tells me that that setting is too rigid and uptight for me to be happy there long-term.

Early on in life, you've often got to pay your dues. But, my philosophy is, your _ultimate_ goal should be to create a life that allows you to use your gifts, pursue your interests, and express who you are in a meaningful and positive way.


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## Wrobel (Jan 8, 2015)

Ah Troj, making life make sense once again.


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## Ozriel (Jan 8, 2015)

Wrobel said:


> Ah Troj, making life make sense once again.



Troj is God.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jan 8, 2015)

Ozriel said:


> Troj is God.



Or atleast the most respected person on faf.


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## Esper Husky (Jan 8, 2015)

Welp, I felt like adding my two cents, but turns out, Troj pretty much covered what I wanted to say.

So I'll just add in -- being yourself seems like the best route, anyway. If you wanna wear stuffs in public outside of events, that's your call, yay.


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## Zop (Jan 8, 2015)

Did Troj just win this thread?


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## Troj (Jan 8, 2015)

Butters Shikkon said:


> Or atleast the most respected person on faf.



Aww, shucks. Thanks.

What'd I win? 



			
				Muzkyalscorpio said:
			
		

> So I'll just add in -- being yourself seems like the best route, anyway.



Yup, unless you're Nancy Grace. Then you're terrible, and should try being somebody else.


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## SparkyWolf (Jan 8, 2015)

Zop said:


> 1. Guy wears tail. Happens to be a loud autistic retard.
> 2. Someone meets first furry in their life. It is inevitably loud autistic retard with tail, because vocal minorities get lots of attention.
> 3. ????
> 4. We seem like weird fucks.




Hmm... Don't quite make the connection there. Not all furries are autistic and not all autistic people are noisy. I'm *technically* on the spectrum, but I'm a very quiet, rational (most of the time), introverted person. I also have worn a tail at school, and I got nothing but complements by teachers and students and they didn't see me as weird at all. So IDK... Maybe I defy all logic?


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## Eirrinn (Jan 8, 2015)

I don't wear shirts or a tail in public or anything like that, but if someone were to ask me if I was a furry I would just say it, its nothing to be ashamed about.


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## pinkie (Jan 8, 2015)

SparkyWolf said:


> Hmm... Don't quite make the connection there. Not all furries are autistic and not all autistic people are noisy. I'm *technically* on the spectrum, but I'm a very quiet, rational (most of the time), introverted person. I also have worn a tail at school, and I got nothing but complements by teachers and students and they didn't see me as weird at all. So IDK... Maybe I defy all logic?


Im on the spectrum as well. But acting typically autistic shouldn't be a bad thing either.


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## Zop (Jan 8, 2015)

pinkie said:


> Im on the spectrum as well. But acting typically autistic shouldn't be a bad thing either.



I know autism isn't a bad thing, or like that at all either. I should have known better than to post something like that, I'm sorry.


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## SparkyWolf (Jan 8, 2015)

That it should not. It's just a difference in brain chemistry/information processing method. Nothing wrong with that.


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## pinkie (Jan 8, 2015)

Zop said:


> I know autism isn't a bad thing, or like that at all either. I should have known better than to post something like that, I'm sorry.


Thank you for your understanding


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## dirtypaws (Jan 8, 2015)

Brass said:


> By work for the government do you mean janitor because I feel like you're a janitor or in an entry level position at best.



Postal worker, actually. good pay, benefits, and they all know i'm a furry and, as you've seen, are fine with me being heavily modded. i don't like to flaunt it, but...i don't like who i am being reason for assumptions.



Troj said:


> Yep---the obvious answer is to not dress in your geek swag when attending a fancy or formal gathering, applying for a job or similar position, or, perhaps, when going on a blind date.
> 
> Otherwise, I tend to think "normalcy" is grossly overrated.
> 
> ...



You said it better than i could!


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## spookyspooks (Jan 8, 2015)

If you want to wear a tail in public while you're doing random errands/hanging out, go for it. What sketches me out are the people who wear them to their college classes (high school less so, but I still don't think it's appropriate). There's a time and place for furry gear; professional environments are not that place. People _will_ judge you based on your appearance and you might lose valuable opportunities just because the right person (professors, wandering visiting professionals, etc.) is put-off by your tail.


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## Teckolf (Jan 9, 2015)

spookyspooks said:


> If you want to wear a tail in public while you're doing random errands/hanging out, go for it. What sketches me out are the people who wear them to their college classes (high school less so, but I still don't think it's appropriate). There's a time and place for furry gear; professional environments are not that place. People _will_ judge you based on your appearance and you might lose valuable opportunities just because the right person (professors, wandering visiting professionals, etc.) is put-off by your tail.



Solid point. Even though I am in a major where 95% of the students are weird nerds, I still wouldnt wear one at school because I am trying to get a job in the (hopefully very near) future.


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## Brass (Jan 9, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> Postal worker, actually. good pay, benefits, and they all know i'm a furry and, as you've seen, are fine with me being heavily modded. i don't like to flaunt it, but...i don't like who i am being reason for assumptions.
> 
> 
> 
> You said it better than i could!



When you said "I work for the government", I was hoping for something, you know?


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## dirtypaws (Jan 9, 2015)

Brass said:


> When you said "I work for the government", I was hoping for something, you know?



yea, sorry, i couldn't fit your image of me, i promise you're still perfect to me regardless of what you do in life.
well, maybe.


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## Brass (Jan 9, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> yea, sorry, i couldn't fit your image of me, i promise you're still perfect to me regardless of what you do in life.
> well, maybe.



Don't be sad dirtypaws. I just like government peps in uniform.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 9, 2015)

Brass said:


> Don't be sad dirtypaws. I just like government peps in uniform.



No, unfortunately, i dress like crust punk trash even in the workplace.


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## Brass (Jan 9, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> No, unfortunately, i dress like crust punk trash even in the workplace.



-1/10 not waifu material


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 9, 2015)

Brass said:


> waifu



I did't know what that was until I googled it just now...


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## Shirokage (Jan 9, 2015)

If I had shirts or hoodies with furry art on them, I'd wear them as easily as anything else I had. But I wouldn't wear anything involving yiffing anymore than I would wear anything to do with porn. As far as ears, tails, collars go...those are all accessories, just like scarves, headbands, etc. I'm not really the type of guy to wear accessories beyond a ballcap to keep the sun out of my eyes or a beanie to keep my head warm, but if other people like to wear them then knock yourselves out. Most girls I've seen, and sometimes guys even, look adorable in tails and ears.


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## Maelstrom Eyre (Jan 9, 2015)

First of all - what is "acting furry?"

Is it making random mewing, squeaking, purring, or growling sounds to total strangers?  Pawing at them or generally behaving like an animal?

I know that, in some of the virtual world grids (IMVU, Second Life, etc) furries don't always leave the best impressions because a lot of them just tend to be obnoxious and immature.  They play long, annoying, loud gestures of Pokemon theme songs or use avatars that create a ton of lag because they're so heavily scripted with glowy lights.  There are some who go into roleplay areas using very "cartoony" avatars that do not fit the theme at all and try to be the center of attention at all times.

And, if they happen to be in a sim that is not furry-specific and someone asks them to cease with the gesture-spamming or put some clothing on per sim rules, or change anything about themselves or their behavior. . .the furry freaks out and cries FURSECUTION.

It's because of this behavior that a minority with bad behavior has given the fandom a reputation as "immature people who have no concept of appropriate social behavior."  If that's how a person really wants to act. . .that's fine. . .just don't bitch about it when you get fired from your job for wearing your tail to work or trying to hump your boss' leg during a staff meeting.

That's why there are cons and meets - so you can act and dress that way with some other like-minded people.

Self-expression is fine and all. . .but it does not mean the rest of the world (including employers, professors, co-workers, etc) is obligated to "accept" or "tolerate" it when it is bothering other employees, students, or customers/clients or posing some health or safety risk (like tails caught in machinery).


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## Troj (Jan 9, 2015)

Maelstrom Eyre said:


> Self-expression is fine and all. . .but it does not mean the rest of the world (including employers, professors, co-workers, etc) is obligated to "accept" or "tolerate" it when it is bothering other employees, students, or customers/clients or posing some health or safety risk (like tails caught in machinery).



Well said. 

Plenty of people use "freedom of "speech," for example, as an excuse to say stupid, rude, or bigoted things, and then they cry when people rightly disagree or call them out. "Freedom of speech" doesn't mean "freedom from consequences of speech."

Similarly, you have a right to express yourself, so long as it doesn't impinge on or hurt anyone else. Others do not have a right to hurt or harass you simply because they disagree with your form of self-expression--however, they _do_ still have a right to disagree with you, and even, to dislike you in their own minds.



> And, if they happen to be in a sim that is not furry-specific and  someone asks them to cease with the gesture-spamming or put some  clothing on per sim rules, or change anything about themselves or their  behavior. . .the furry freaks out and cries FURSECUTION.



Right, and then this makes the whole community look like a bunch of crybabies.

When people criticize your behavior, they aren't necessarily criticizing _you. _This is an important distinction to keep in mind, and one which young people in particular sometimes have problems grokking.

From there, different regions of the world (both real and virtual) have their own rules, expectations, and customs. If you want to get along with people in those places, and be included, you'll have to compromise on a few things. 

In Satanism, the third rule of the earth states, "When in anotherâ€™s lair, show him respect or else do not go there." Part of the 7th rule states, "When walking in open territory, bother no one."  (Second part of that gives you the go-ahead to defend yourself and your space if need be.) I think these are good rules of thumb to live by.

At the same time, you can't let the turkeys get you down. (No offense to anyone with a turkey-sona.) There are people who just automatically react to anyone who is "different," especially in ways they feel is "wrong." As long as you're being polite, respectful and appropriate with everyone, you shouldn't let some square's sneers and scowls prevent you from living your life and having fun.


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## Victor Anderson (Jan 11, 2015)

Woah, you live in the bible belt and don't have hillbilly problems? Last time I made a passing comment about furries, someone threatened to shoot me.

BTW I do not currently live where my locations says I do... Who gives actual locations on forums?


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 11, 2015)

Victor Anderson said:


> Woah, you live in the bible belt and don't have hillbilly problems? Last time I made a passing comment about furries, someone threatened to shoot me.
> 
> BTW I do not currently live where my locations says I do... Who gives actual locations on forums?




Me.


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## Pingouin7 (Jan 11, 2015)

-snip-


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## Filter (Jan 11, 2015)

The irony, of course, is that furries act like people.


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## Maugryph (Jan 11, 2015)

Filter said:


> The irony, of course, is that furries act like people.



Furries ARE people (No matter how much they don't want to admit it).


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## VintageLynx (Jan 11, 2015)

Seems to me that furries on their YouTube channels are loud, excitable and talk a lot. I'm none of those things so I don't think I'd be much good at 'acting furry' - it'd be too much of an act (even though I am one) - I'd rather curl up with a book or spend time on my electronics projects.


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## Maelstrom Eyre (Jan 11, 2015)

VintageLynx said:


> Seems to me that furries on their YouTube channels are loud, excitable and talk a lot. I'm none of those things so I don't think I'd be much good at 'acting furry' - it'd be too much of an act (even though I am one) - I'd rather curl up with a book or spend time on my electronics projects.



I don't think I "act furry" either.    

Sigh. . .I'm a failed furry.


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 11, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> Furries ARE people (No matter how much they don't want to admit it).



thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU


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## Maugryph (Jan 11, 2015)

Maelstrom Eyre said:


> I don't think I "act furry" either.
> 
> Sigh. . .I'm a failed furry.



Dont think that way.. If your a person that enjoys the fandom but is  not vain or self centered to attempt to cram it down other people's  throat IRL, that's sound like a successful furry to me.



isuckatdrawing said:


> thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU



Your welcome


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## Bonobosoph (Jan 11, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> Furries ARE people (No matter how much they don't want to admit it).


I'm not a people. TT^TT


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 11, 2015)

Bonobosoph said:


> I'm not a people. TT^TT



You're like the only Monkey furr on the forum.

So, we can define you as your own people.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 11, 2015)

I wear a bunny hat when I'm around town, on cold days. People broadly like it.


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## Charrio (Jan 11, 2015)

I wear Harry Otter Shirts does that count?
http://sites.duke.edu/engagepdx/files/2012/07/DSCN1387.jpg

Not me obviously just an example.


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## Maugryph (Jan 12, 2015)

Charrio said:


> I wear Harry Otter Shirts does that count?
> http://sites.duke.edu/engagepdx/files/2012/07/DSCN1387.jpg
> 
> Not me obviously just an example.



I don't think so. I otter think that no one would associate you as a fur for wearing that shirt.


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## Hewge (Jan 12, 2015)

Did somebody say "otter"?

hnngghh... otter puns


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## Renarde (Jan 12, 2015)

Sometimes when I'm drunk people will pet me. Other than that I don't think I act very publicly "furry." However, I've been eyeing those Pawstar hoodies...


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 13, 2015)

Renarde said:


> Sometimes when I'm drunk people will pet me.


That's adorable.  Sig'd


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## Renarde (Jan 13, 2015)

isuckatdrawing said:


> That's adorable.  Sig'd


Haha, aw, brilliant! <3 True story, though.


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## Willow (Jan 13, 2015)

I don't exactly have problems with people acting furry but some people take it too far and I think that's what the real problem is. It's kind of like how anime fans and weebs think it's okay to wear cat ears to school and go "nya~" at everyone because they think it's cute. It's not even cute at cons tbh..


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## Maugryph (Jan 13, 2015)

Willow said:


> I don't exactly have problems with people acting furry but some people take it too far and I think that's what the real problem is. It's kind of like how anime fans and weebs think it's okay to wear cat ears to school and go "nya~" at everyone because they think it's cute. It's not even cute at cons tbh..



When they start using those annoying squeaking toys, that's where I draw the line.


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## StrangerCoug (Jan 13, 2015)

I've been openly furry for a few years now but I'm not into furry accessories. I do have a hat, though (I forget what it's called, but the kind that has earflaps that extend far enough down for you to put your hands in), that looks a bit like a wolf's head. I generally don't get any attention at UTEP when I wear it, but when my brother borrows it, he and his theater classmates will have some fun with it. (He doesn't identify as a furry as far as I know.)

I have never received negative attention about being a furry at college, though I'd be surprised if someone there who knew me well there, especially my age and younger, didn't have the slightest clue that I am (I carry an Ozy and Millie tote bag to school). I may pique their interest in it to a certain extent, though.


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## Kleric (Jan 14, 2015)

I see no problem with accessories being worn around, though I haven't ever witnessed it myself I just feel it's something I could easily live with. However the second someone starts making random animal sounds... I may want to punch them. I wouldn't! But I still may want to deep inside of me.


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## jorinda (Jan 14, 2015)

I wear conshirts at work. Nobody cares. Sometimes people comment if they like a shirt in particular.
Same for buttons on my bag - noone cares.

I wouldn't wear a tail at work. I'd feel silly, and I'm pretty sure it is against lab safety rules. 

I also don't mind if others wear collars, ears or tails. Unless they act inappropriate, or wear furry ears and tails to an event that requires formal clothes.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 14, 2015)

As long as I ain't dodging a bunch of invasive barneys trying to hug me and preach about their lifestyle choices, attempt a shuffle-style dance or just get in the way with their costume nudging me, then I'm fine. Again, like most people, I don't see the furry community under a positive light. Half of the people who say it isn't all shit are just contributing to it. 

I know a lot of people who are furries but it's not the main subject every time we talk  and thats a wonderful thing. It means you're not out to attention whore just how unique you are for being a one horned goat-cat-demon thing with 20 pairs of wings who also happens to be cisfryingpansexual.


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 14, 2015)

TyraWadman said:


> I don't see the furry community under a positive light.



Why do you feel this way (if you don't mind me asking)?


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## Maugryph (Jan 15, 2015)

TyraWadman said:


> It means you're not out to attention whore just how unique you are for being a one horned goat-cat-demon thing with 20 pairs of wings who also happens to be cisfryingpansexual.



That sounds like a nightmare commission right there.


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 15, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> That sounds like a nightmare commission right there.



Those 20 wing-arms would need to have hair growing from between the scales.  Have fun with that...


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## TyraWadman (Jan 15, 2015)

isuckatdrawing said:


> Why do you feel this way (if you don't mind me asking)?



Well if they aren't trying to assert their dominance in the forums, they're usually messed up in the head some other way. 

To actually name a few prime examples isolated to the furry community: Cub porn. Or furry porn in general. Yea, there's cults for everything, but this one stands out a little more than the rest for obvious controversial reasons. I don't want to see a baby get fucked, I don't want to see a newborn animal get fucked either. It would make me cry, unless the animal was sexually mature enough to accept it willingly, then I'd ask why i was even watching the animals get it on in the first place. People dedicate groups (and Ink bunny) to it, some explaining to me that it's 'okay because it's fake'. Well, I can agree with that, but it still disgusts me how far people are willing to go just to stick their dick in something. Unfortunately people like to treat animals as pets and objects. Family and companions, people! 

People who think it's socially acceptable to lick someone on the cheek instead of saying, "Hello". 

Drama in General: What's it, that rape accusation that happened last year? Total B.S, for this part of the furry community.People actively returning to the 'rape scene' and voluntarily having sex with them is not rape. It's called regret. But hey, people are dumb enough to jump to conclusions and eat it up instead of reading the actual leaked message that was sent to him. Again, it can compare to 'humans' with media propaganda as well, but that doesn't mean I have a good impression on them either. To add to it, it's no different than the 'feminazis' when people feel that their lifestyle is being targeted or threatened. 

"Furries keep getting bashed for terrible things other people do!" says the guy who jacks off to the idea of screwing his own brother. Gee, you wonder why?

Originality - you can rarely find it these days. Oh look at me, I'm going to copy this art on the front page so I can get 1k new watchers! Oh? Now it's a chick with a dick? Better change it up again! Out of all of the art sites i have been to, this is the only one where it's a constant problem. The rest, it's either a repost from the same guy or the front page is spaced out enough so that it doesn't clutter with trends.

Attention whores. "Pansexual furry with ten dicks! I'm totes unique with my striped gloves, glitter fur and rave parties!" and "Win a night with my stud OC that is totally stud and OC. Haven't seen it happen until furries opted for it. In art form, not actual prostitution. But I'm sure that happens.

I AM A WOLF TRAPPED INSIDE OF A HUMAN BODY, READ ABOUT MY ANGST AND SUFFERING AS I ENDURE THESE FILTHY, HUMAN TRIALS! WATCH AS I ACTIVELY SIT HERE ON THE INTERNET LIKE A DAMNED, GREEDY HUMAN, INSTEAD OF EATING RAW MEAT FROM THE FRIDGE AND HOWLING AT THE MOON AT NIGHT!!! 

Overall it's one of those questionable things. I know a lot of them are just people who are ashamed of their bodies and want to escape their reality, but I know it's not all of them. Just a large chunk. ._. I don't have a lot of luck meeting people with this thing called standards or decency, patient enough to find out,_ "Okay, does this person wanna be dry humped er... no? No. They don't. Guess I'd better refrain from doing that." _


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## Filter (Jan 15, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> Furries ARE people (No matter how much they don't want to admit it).



Lies!

http://i.imgur.com/MfW74sf.png

But seriously, I was talking about furry characters not furry fans. Anthropomorphic means human-like, hence furry characters are animals that act like people. I'd say acting like an *animal* would get one into more trouble than acting like an anthropomorphic being. That's what struck me as ironic, if slightly off topic.

To address the OP: Maybe they wish they could be that open about it, and resent those who are. Like if they can't enjoy their sandwich, then nobody can.


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 15, 2015)

TyraWadman said:


> Well if they aren't trying to assert their dominance in the forums, they're usually messed up in the head some other way.



I'm not sure what you mean by "assert their dominance."  We do have many intellectual debates.
I'm also not sure by what you mean by "messed up in the head."  Please elaborate.




TyraWadman said:


> To actually name a few prime examples isolated to the furry community: Cub porn. Or furry porn in general. Yea, there's cults for everything, but this one stands out a little more than the rest for obvious controversial reasons. I don't want to see a baby get fucked, I don't want to see a newborn animal get fucked either. It would make me cry, unless the animal was sexually mature enough to accept it willingly, then I'd ask why i was even watching the animals get it on in the first place. People dedicate groups (and Ink bunny) to it, some explaining to me that it's 'okay because it's fake'. Well, I can agree with that, but it still disgusts me how far people are willing to go just to stick their dick in something. Unfortunately people like to treat animals as pets and objects. Family and companions, people!



Every fetish / philia that occurs amongst non-furries has a counterpart in the furry community.  Pedophilia is no exception.  I do not in any way condone it (to me, it is disgusting).
Furries =/= zoophiles.  Some zoophiles take shelter in the furry community.  They are not furries; they are impostors; a stain upon the community.
You should also know about furry ferals.  Furry ferals have the body of an animal, but the mind, eyes, and (usually) hair of a human.  They are not animals, they are people.
Bottom line(s): _Furries don't fuck animals_.  _A portion_ of the community is sexually attracted to anthros (smaller still for ferals).  That is the _only_ difference between "furry" sexuality and non-furry sexuality.

Before I went off to college, I lived with my parents.  We had 5 dogs.  I miss them dearly, and they miss me; they are family, children to me.  One of them is about ten years old.  The hardest part of leaving for college was knowing that I would not get to say goodbye when her time comes...probably not when any of their times come.




TyraWadman said:


> People who think it's socially acceptable to lick someone on the cheek instead of saying, "Hello".



I certainly don't, nor am I aware of anyone that does.
I can imagine that some couples do that, _but hey_, they're together.




TyraWadman said:


> Drama in General: What's it, that rape accusation that happened last year? Total B.S, for this part of the furry community.People actively returning to the 'rape scene' and voluntarily having sex with them is not rape. It's called regret. But hey, people are dumb enough to jump to conclusions and eat it up instead of reading the actual leaked message that was sent to him. Again, it can compare to 'humans' with media propaganda as well, but that doesn't mean I have a good impression on them either. To add to it, it's no different than the 'feminazis' when people feel that their lifestyle is being targeted or threatened.



I can't comment on this.




TyraWadman said:


> "Furries keep getting bashed for terrible things other people do!" says the guy who jacks off to the idea of screwing his own brother. Gee, you wonder why?



That is not limited to the furry community.  I would imagine that such thoughts have crossed the minds of many homosexuals and heterosexuals whose sibling(s) is(are) of the corresponding gender(s).




TyraWadman said:


> Originality - you can rarely find it these days. Oh look at me, I'm going to copy this art on the front page so I can get 1k new watchers! Oh? Now it's a chick with a dick? Better change it up again! Out of all of the art sites i have been to, this is the only one where it's a constant problem. The rest, it's either a repost from the same guy or the front page is spaced out enough so that it doesn't clutter with trends.



Reposts do occur.  Their purpose is to acquire more watches / favorites, and to bring in more commissioners. However, the copying of art is a bannable offense and is strictly prohibited, not to mention being dishonorable.
Also, herms are real, if you didn't know.




TyraWadman said:


> Attention whores. "Pansexual furry with ten dicks! I'm totes unique with my striped gloves, glitter fur and rave parties!" and "Win a night with my stud OC that is totally stud and OC. Haven't seen it happen until furries opted for it. In art form, not actual prostitution. But I'm sure that happens.



Every fursona can have their own individuality with extremely unique physical traits.  That said, nothing is special about having 10 dicks, because anyone can.
That's just another way of selling a product.
And no...it doesn't happen.




TyraWadman said:


> I AM A WOLF TRAPPED INSIDE OF A HUMAN BODY, READ ABOUT MY ANGST AND SUFFERING AS I ENDURE THESE FILTHY, HUMAN TRIALS! WATCH AS I ACTIVELY SIT HERE ON THE INTERNET LIKE A DAMNED, GREEDY HUMAN, INSTEAD OF EATING RAW MEAT FROM THE FRIDGE AND HOWLING AT THE MOON AT NIGHT!!!



I want to say those people are usually into transformation.  They are relatively rare, and I have yet to find one with sentiments such as the above.  Yeah, it exists, but ya know, you've got to wonder...if people can be born into the wrong gender, can they be born into the wrong species?  Side topic: Native Americans believed in "spirit animals," you should look into it sometime.




TyraWadman said:


> Overall it's one of those questionable things. I know a lot of them are just people who are ashamed of their bodies and want to escape their reality, but I know it's not all of them. Just a large chunk. ._. I don't have a lot of luck meeting people with this thing called standards or decency, patient enough to find out,_ "Okay, does this person wanna be dry humped er... no? No. They don't. Guess I'd better refrain from doing that." _



I am most certainly not ashamed of my body (nor am I aware of any furries who are ashamed of theirs), and I infact do not have a fursona that I consider to be myself; I am human, even in the realm of furries.
By "meeting people" I assume you are talking about furries?  I'm not sure why you are getting dry-humped randomly, but that is not proper behavior by any reasonable individual's standards.


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## Maugryph (Jan 15, 2015)

Typed in bold in the quote. There is no way I am breaking this up.


TyraWadman said:


> Well if they aren't trying to assert their dominance in the forums, they're usually messed up in the head some other way.
> 
> To actually name a few prime examples isolated to the furry community: Cub porn. Or furry porn in general. Yea, there's cults for everything, but this one stands out a little more than the rest for obvious controversial reasons. I don't want to see a baby get fucked, I don't want to see a newborn animal get fucked either. It would make me cry, unless the animal was sexually mature enough to accept it willingly, then I'd ask why i was even watching the animals get it on in the first place. People dedicate groups (and Ink bunny) to it, some explaining to me that it's 'okay because it's fake'. Well, I can agree with that, but it still disgusts me how far people are willing to go just to stick their dick in something. Unfortunately people like to treat animals as pets and objects. Family and companions, people!
> 
> ...


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 15, 2015)

*Inhales loudly*

whispers: "you're"
_________________________________________________

OTHERKIN, that's the noun I was looking for.  We certainly have a couple here on the forums.

Is vore really that popular?  
The only reason I admit to being into vore is that anyone can look at my FA favorites list...and I like to think that I have at least a few operational neurons.

Also, I wouldn't say that the fandom is a magnet for fetishes...people just have them, and for furries they apply to anthros just like they apply to humans for non-furries.


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## Maugryph (Jan 15, 2015)

isuckatdrawing said:


> *Inhales loudly*
> 
> whispers: "you're"
> _________________________________________________
> ...



I'm not otherkin, I was born a human being, and I will die as a human being. I'm fine with that. I am a dragon 'fan', I do relate to them with because of my short fuse and collecting too much crap. I've indulged in the fantasy of being a dragon but it's just a passing whim, a leftover relic of my childhood, and I return to planet earth. There are indeed otherkin on FAF but they hide it because otherkin seem to get trolled here.

Vore, I see it on FA all the time. It's not my cup of tea (Which sounds ironic since many 'dragons' are into vore) I'm not saying you don't have brain cells because you like vore. In fact you DO have all your brain cells as far as I can tell. I have yet seen you push vore into anyone's face.


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 15, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> I'm not otherkin, I was born a human being, and I will die as a human being. I'm fine with that. I am a dragon 'fan', I do relate to them with because of my short fuse and collecting too much crap. I've indulged in the fantasy of being a dragon but it's just a passing whim, a leftover relic of my childhood, and I return to planet earth. There are indeed otherkin on FAF but they hide it because otherkin seem to get trolled here.
> 
> Vore, I see it on FA all the time. It's not my cup of tea (Which sounds ironic since many 'dragons' are into vore) I'm not saying you don't have brain cells because you like vore. In fact you DO have all your brain cells as far as I can tell. I have yet seen you push vore into anyone's face.



Shoving things in people's faces isn't my thing.  I just put said things where people can find them if they are curious about me.

EDIT:  That sounded bad.


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## Maugryph (Jan 16, 2015)

isuckatdrawing said:


> Shoving things in people's faces isn't my thing.  I just put said things where people can find them if they are curious about me.
> 
> EDIT:  That sounded bad.


must..resist.. sig'ing quote


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## Troj (Jan 16, 2015)

I'd say I'm a transhumanist, in that I am very open to using genetic engineering and/or technological upgrades to become stronger, smarter, faster, healthier, and all that jazz.

But, even so, while I believe it is fine to dream and fantasize, I believe just as strongly that you shouldn't let your fantasies and dreams get in the way of living in the real world right now, and seeing and accepting yourself as you really are in the here and now.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 16, 2015)

"Some zoophiles take shelter in the furry community.  They are not furries; they are impostors; a stain upon the community."


Some furries are zoophiles. There is no furry pope who can excommunicate them, so you'll just have to deal with it.


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## monochromatic-dragon (Jan 16, 2015)

TyraWadman said:


> post



Jesus Christ, this post is quotable gold. I'm not-so-sorry to say I can't help but view the furry fandom as a whole in a negative light for many of the same reasons. Unless you prove to be different, like the fine folks on this forum. Then you're a'ight.


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## Atemis (Jan 16, 2015)

monochromatic-dragon said:


> Jesus Christ, this post is quotable gold. I'm not-so-sorry to say I can't help but view the furry fandom as a whole in a negative light for many of the same reasons. Unless you prove to be different, like the fine folks on this forum. Then you're a'ight.


Every community is shit if you only bother to look at the bad side


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## Kinharia (Jan 16, 2015)

I would gladly walk about my town in a Fursuit if I could. Only because I have never seen anyone in a Fursuit in Ireland and I want to see reactions


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## Maugryph (Jan 16, 2015)

Troj said:


> I'd say I'm a transhumanist, in that I am very open to using genetic engineering and/or technological upgrades to become stronger, smarter, faster, healthier, and all that jazz.
> 
> But, even so, while I believe it is fine to dream and fantasize, I believe just as strongly that you shouldn't let your fantasies and dreams get in the way of living in the real world right now, and seeing and accepting yourself as you really are in the here and now.



I agree.  it's a waste if someone just dreams and fantasize their life away.  It was something silly I did in the past when I was younger. Like I said I am perfectly happy being a human being. This life is all I have right now, I might as make the best of it.


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## Deleted member 93706 (Jan 16, 2015)

Fallowfox said:


> "Some zoophiles take shelter in the furry community.  They are not furries; they are impostors; a stain upon the community."
> 
> 
> Some furries are zoophiles. There is no furry pope who can excommunicate them, so you'll just have to deal with it.



Yeah, I kinda left them out.  I'd imagine they tend to prefer ferals...amongst other things.


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## Ralphie (Jan 18, 2015)

So long as something is not illegal(i dont imply illegal=wrong) and it  doesnt hurt anybody i dont see why anyone should stop themselves from  doing what they enjoy.

I actually support anyone courageous  enough to do what he wants and enjoys without caring if the others  around him consider him weird or crazy or whatever for simply being  different. Diversity is something i support since it allows people to  express themselves and doesnt punish them for escaping the societal  template aka it doesnt make them repress their desires simply because  the masses consider something different as "bad".
Humans have always  been herd creatures, following what it seems to be a structure of order,  something stable that can make them feel secure and in control, "the  world works like this, people are like this, this is this, etc".

And  being different usually hurts those beliefs, and sometimes some of  those "early facts/beliefs" hold the persons entire structure of order  from crumbling which could explain why people get so butthurt when it  comes to people who are SIMPLY DIFFERENT and dont hurt anyone. Hurting  some close minded person's beliefs is definitely not reason enough to  suppress your likes and desires.

Maybe in the future diversity  and being different is going to become a thing that is actually  supported, then everyone will enjoy being different because it is the  norm while at the same time be able to be truly free and do what they  enjoy without fear.

And that is why i will always support people  who do what they enjoy without caring about what others say and i am  against people who try to force people to act "normal"


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## Maugryph (Jan 18, 2015)

Ralphie said:


> And that is why i will always support people  who do what they enjoy without caring about what others say and i am  against people who try to force people to act "normal"



what do you consider normal. Such a concept differs from culture to culture.


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## Ralphie (Jan 18, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> what do you consider normal. Such a concept differs from culture to culture.


And from era to era, which makes the concept of "normality" even more ironical. By normal i am referring to things like behavior, attitude, way of thinking/acting etc, things that the majority follows in X area in X time, and the fact that they are going to dislike or push away anything outside that limiting mold.

but it definitely helps people in a way, i am pretty sure that vast majority wouldnt be able to handle well living in an incredibly unstable and always changing environment where there is no control or understanding of their surroundings.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 19, 2015)

Ralphie said:


> So long as something is not illegal(i dont imply illegal=wrong) and it  doesnt hurt anybody i dont see why anyone should stop themselves from  doing what they enjoy.
> 
> I actually support anyone courageous  enough to do what he wants and enjoys without caring if the others  around him consider him weird or crazy or whatever for simply being  different. Diversity is something i support since it allows people to  express themselves and doesnt punish them for escaping the societal  template aka it doesnt make them repress their desires simply because  the masses consider something different as "bad".
> Humans have always  been herd creatures, following what it seems to be a structure of order,  something stable that can make them feel secure and in control, "the  world works like this, people are like this, this is this, etc".
> ...



i totally support this post, and kudos to also having a Morenatsu av. B]


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## TheRedGhost (Jan 19, 2015)

I recall wearing tails in public being the scene/Rave kid thing to do some years back- as I remember Hot Topic carrying clip on tails for a while.  Personally, I don't care, I think it's totally fun to dress up and wish I didn't have to be such a socially acceptable adult so often. People are going to judge you no matter what you do and I honestly don't see why the forum would care what you do in real life, or why you should care what a forum thinks of you in real life. Or why people from the forum would care what someone else thinks of them because of their shallow contrived stereotypes from seeing someone in public acting outside the realm of normalities.

What I DO see a problem is bringing in an irrelevant form of fandom into a forum not suited (haha, I'm punny) for it. 

But that's my two cents on the subject. I've always been the outcast and I've got kids now, so I have an excuse to run around in a dragon costume pretending to breathe fire.


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## Calemeyr (Jan 19, 2015)

People will judge you for dressing like a rebellious teenager when you are in your mid to late twenties to thirties, and they won't hire you at X good-paying job because they will think you are immature. It seems the more people isolate themselves into a subculture, the more they are isolated from normal society, which harms their chances on moving up. You need to get along with normal people and not scare them.


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## Charrio (Jan 19, 2015)

Calemeyr said:


> People will judge you for dressing like a rebellious teenager when you are in your mid to late twenties to thirties, and they won't hire you at X good-paying job because they will think you are immature. It seems the more people isolate themselves into a subculture, the more they are isolated from normal society, which harms their chances on moving up. You need to get along with normal people and not scare them.



Very true, you have to hide your Furry likes for the most part. 
Which is part of growing up it seems, learning to keep parts of your life to YOU and your close friends and others who have the same interest. 

Sucks at times but it's the same reason most people who have tattoos keep them in areas able to be hidden when working or dressed.


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## Ayattar (Jan 19, 2015)

Charrio said:


> Which is part of growing up it seems, learning to keep parts of your life to YOU and your close friends and others who have the same interest.



This is what living in the society is all about. Unfortunately some people don't understand that.

Myself, I'd most preferably put all the people into suits and evening dresses.


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## Calemeyr (Jan 19, 2015)

Ayattar said:


> This is what living in the society is all about. Unfortunately some people don't understand that.
> 
> Myself, I'd most preferably put all the people into suits and evening dresses.


Very classy. We need more class nowadays. Like a good Liszt or Rimsky-Korsakov piece and a bottle of nice wine. It's all about taste, people.


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## dirtypaws (Jan 19, 2015)

Calemeyr said:


> People will judge you for dressing like a rebellious teenager when you are in your mid to late twenties to thirties, and they won't hire you at X good-paying job because they will think you are immature. It seems the more people isolate themselves into a subculture, the more they are isolated from normal society, which harms their chances on moving up. You need to get along with normal people and not scare them.



I don't really understand this logic because it's not as if you go into your interview looking that way. What you wear out on the weekends has no reflection on how you act in a work-related environment?


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## TheRedGhost (Jan 19, 2015)

dirtypaws said:


> I don't really understand this logic because it's not as if you go into your interview looking that way. What you wear out on the weekends has no reflection on how you act in a work-related environment?


Yes, I'm making statements assuming that people who do have accessories here or there do so in a healthy moderation. Going to an interview dressed in flip flops isn't advisable (unless you're a lifeguard), much less a tail, but that's the point. On one's free time and to the appropriate public areas, I really don't see why it is such a big deal? What's so different from having a tail in public and having a Hello Kitty Island Adventure invaded by zombies with a big Zelda stamp on it attire?


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## Coffee Lion (Jan 19, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> Just stick it to cons and events. Furryism is *NOT *a lifestyle. Pushing that shit into people face is the same as being a filthy disgusting weeaboo that discusses about anthro porns in public instead of animoos.



While I completely understand and agree to your point that furries are not a lifestyle, is it really such a terrible thing to where a tail on a casual outing? It certainly doesn't hurt anyone, and it's not as if I'd try to shove it in someone's face. It was like randomly putting on an anime shirt, or your favorite pair of jeans. A day off work spent at the mall or the movies with your friends while wearing a tail hardly seems "filthy" or "disgusting". From my experiences not to many people really pay much attention, and those who asked were simply given a polite explanation of "I felt like wearing it". Most would nod and keep it moving. That being said, one certainly doesn't recommend wearing a tail to a job interview, to your school (college or otherwise), or any other professional setting.


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## Atemis (Jan 19, 2015)

They hate furries because they're afraid of our power :3
But i wont let them take away my way of life
Im actually of wolf in a ugky human's body you know .3.
I like to wear my rainbow tail in public, with my spiked collar and 11 inch canine dildo. I piss on fire hydrants to mark my territory and when people look at me weird I growl at them!!! so they know im for serious ^_^


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## Pingouin7 (Jan 19, 2015)

-snip-


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## Ralphie (Jan 19, 2015)

Calemeyr said:


> People will judge you for dressing like a rebellious teenager when you are in your mid to late twenties to thirties, and they won't hire you at X good-paying job because they will think you are immature. It seems the more people isolate themselves into a subculture, the more they are isolated from normal society, which harms their chances on moving up. You need to get along with normal people and not scare them.



Rebellious teenager, child, handicapped, retarded, crazy, idiot etc. Has there been a time where actually doing something unusual and different was seen as a good thing and people didnt use negative words to describe such behavior?

Obviously during an interview you have to look professional, even though that is utterly idiotic since if you expect that someone is responsible and professional in their work simply because they wore a suit and pretended to be serious in an interview you must be really naive. It is like when people are saying that speaking more professionally and politely to a boss or an elder shows respect even though one could be just doing it to avoid trouble and curse them when they are away.

I am not saying i cant understand that currently you ll need to pretend to be normal to have a higher chance of getting a good job but i cant understand how one can support the "normal" system of how things work and not consider it utterly idiotic. I said in the above example why it is a really dumb system, it focuses on outside appearances, something that is definitely not an effective way of judging someone or knowing his TRUE intentions. Keyword: "EFFECTIVE"

I can understand not wanting to attract attention or being secretive about your personal desires but i cant support a person who actually wants to FORCE other people to repress themselves simply so they can be "normal".
Things can change, and people can help by supporting diversity and people who are and show that they are different. So you want a high level position with a lot of money? Sure go ahead, pretend to be normal and hide your desires but dont be consumed by the system and become one of those people who forces others to act in a certain way. When you get in a position of power you can affect the people below you, and you can affect them positively by giving them more freedom and pushing for diversity, and the higher you go the more people you affect and the higher the chance things will change in time.
Or at least that is my plan, i can pretend for some time to follow the norms of my jobs but they are not going to change me, i am going to change them by being an example and promoting diversity to the people below me.

I have some personal experience on the matter. Since i work on the merchant navy(not to be confused with the army) i can firsthand see how some young people who are all about partying and enjoying life can suddenly changed in being hierarchical monster who become a part of the system and start forcing others to act and behave in a certain way because they were themselves taught and forced to act a certain way. (Though suddenly giving power to any person is another reason as to why one can suddenly start acting like a douche).

Because there are some really old minds in the maritime industry you will see many young people entering the ship and suddenly being punished for misbehaving or forced to act in a specific way or talk in a specific way to certain people. And they achieve that not through logic or something positive but with fear and intimidation since people with a higher rank can do that easily, especially if they live in the past. And sadly not many people are able to hold on to their beliefs after that, or simply for some reason dont even bother to QUESTION if what they are taught is good or if there is a better system they can invent.

Merchant navy in the past had been pretty militaristic, captains unable to lead through anything other than fear, people with serious issues and the need to abuse power in order to feel better about themselves, many of those things have affected seafarers deeply and has sadly made some of the young people keep spreading echos of the past since they were taught by such people that this is how ships work and there is no way around it. Hopefully things have changed a lot since the past, there are still quite a few negative behaviors we need to purge but the maritime industry is a million times better than the past, and all that because newer generations kept some of their idiots and ignored what the idiot above them was shouting about.

That shows that things change, and if they can change in a tiny closed society they can also change in a big one if enough people are supporting the change. 

So people acting different, wearing tails or whatever the yiff they want. I wholeheartedly support because they are pushing for something positive.


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