# The Rules with Quotations and Dialogue



## Adelio Altomar (May 11, 2008)

This is something I've been struggling with the most in my writing. Whenever I write, sometimes my mind sometimes pauses (which is essentially a bad thing in writing, based on what I learned) to think about whether the quote is this way or other. Such as what the exact rules are, and whether to put this punctuation here or there.

 And I'm somewhat working on this complex romance story about an otter who meets this ferret while they're both learning to sing opera. 

Seeing how the story has opera as one of its main themes (I think that's the right term), it's obvious that there will be singing in several scenes atleast. Now here's the problem: how do you write in _sung text_? Do you elongate the words to emphasize that the person is singing an especially long note or do you just type it as the word itself? And then consider this, that the words are in a different language, so would it be a considerable idea to post a translation or no?


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## M. LeRenard (May 11, 2008)

The rules for quotations are actually pretty easy, if you ignore punctuation.  If you're American, start with "blah", and then if you have a quote within a quote you go to 'blah' (eg "You know what he said to me?  He said 'blah'.").  Then if you have a quote within a quote within a quote, you go back to "blah" (eg "You know what he said to me?  He said 'that guy over there just told me "blah"'.")  If you're British, you start with 'blah' instead, and then go from there.  
As for punctuation within, it's not real clear-cut, but I think the general rule is to consider the punctuation's purpose.  For example, if you want the quotation to be an idea of its own (like dialogue, most of the time), you'd put the period inside the quotes (He said, "That's stupid."), but instead if you think the quoted material is part of a larger sentence idea, you put it outside (The CD he bought was called "Jim's Cheese Factory".). 

As for sung text, I would probably do what Tolkien did and just write it in there in long quotation format, like a poem.  In other words, like this:

_On a cold and misty night,_
_a ring of torches light the hallowed ground_
_where his father's laid to rest_
_In the reflection of a sword_
_he sees his destiny and he swears up to the sky:_
_"You will not have died in vain!"_

with tabs of about 5 spaces before each line (which I don't know how to do on a forum).  As for elongating words... I wouldn't do that.  Take the above example; is it better as is, or like this: 

_Ooooo~n a cold and misty niiii~ght
A ring of torches light... the hallowed ground
Where his faaa~ther's laid to rehh~st_

Etc.  The above seems like something you'd do in a comic for a humorous effect.... probably not welcome in a serious work.  
As for translation, if you can find some way to put that in there artistically, go for it, but it might be tough.  Might be better off just leaving it as is and hoping your readers are interested enough to go look up a translation?  I don't really know about that one.  The general rule for foreign languages seems to be more to just not use them, but....


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## Stratelier (May 11, 2008)

On most forums, you can generally use the 
 tag (_without_ interior
 tags) to create a block-indent, e.g:

On a cold and misty night,
a ring of torches light the hallowed ground
where his father's laid to rest
In the reflection of a sword
he sees his destiny and he swears up to the sky:
"You will not have died in vain!"

But apparently vBulletin doesn't like you doing that.  (phpBB, for example, doesn't care)

As for quotations, the official rule is that punctuation always goes inside the quotation marks, no exceptions, however in modern day usage it is also understandable to place punctuation outside the quotation marks, generally when using the quotation marks for emphasis rather than actual dialogue or quoting.


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## kitreshawn (May 11, 2008)

There are a lot of rules with quotations but thankfully it is one area of English that seems to have been somewhat standardized.

Punctuation generally goes inside of the quotations.

"Hey there," he said.
She looked at him and wondered aloud.  "What are you doing?"

When you interrupt a quotation there are two ways of doing it: mid sentence and between sentences.   This changes the punctuation you use to continue the quotation.

Between Sentances use a period- 
"How are you doing?" he asked.  "I haven't seen you for awhile."

In a sentence use a comma- 
"Jodie," Ms. McGuire started, "has been acting up in class again."


For really long quotations break what is said into paragraphs as normal.  Do not close the quotes at the end of any paragraph until the person is finished talking.  Always start one of these paragraphs with a quotation mark to remind the reader that the text is being said.

Sissy stamped her foot.  "I hate this shit... (blah blah blah blah blah blah)

"blah blah blah blah blah.  That is why I cannot stand him."


In general it is best to avoid writing dialogue like it is spoken.  It is much better to simply write what is said and modify it outside of the quotations.  In some cases it is alright to mimic the way the dialogue would sound but be careful to ensure that what you write can only be read one way and is still clear.  For things like singing it is best to set the sung text apart from the rest of the story (also put it in italics).

"I reckon I hate you,'' he said _with a southern drawl._



Leaning over his fallen comrad he started to sing.

_On a cold and misty night,
a ring of torches light the hallowed ground
where his father's laid to rest
In the reflection of a sword
he sees his destiny and he swears up to the sky:
"You will not have died in vain!"_


"What'cha doing?" the kid asked curiously.


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## M. LeRenard (May 11, 2008)

10 e-bucks to anyone who knows what song those lyrics I picked are from.
And it really is the standard rule to always put punctuation inside the quotes?  Huh.... I feel like I read somewhere that it was more complicated than that.  Maybe it was an old book.  I usually just stick 'em wherever I feel like.


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## kitreshawn (May 11, 2008)

IIRC isn't it Accolade II?


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## Adelio Altomar (May 11, 2008)

Okay, and about the foreign language lyrics, what if I put the English translation underneath?

Example:
_Â¡No puede ser!_
This cannot be!
_Â¡La mujer es buena!_
This women is virtuous!
ect.


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## kitreshawn (May 11, 2008)

I don't see why you couldn't put a translation, but you might want to be careful with that.  It could pull the reader out of the story.


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## M. LeRenard (May 12, 2008)

> IIRC isn't it Accolade II?


+10 e-bucks
*cha-ching* (unless you looked it up on Google.  In which case, you're a cheater)



> Okay, and about the foreign language lyrics, what if I put the English translation underneath?


Unless there was some good reason for it to be there, it's kind of weird and distracting, like all of the sudden a robot jumps on stage and starts translating the song for the audience, then leaves without a word after it's done.  If it's completely necessary that the song be in Spanish and then translated, do what you can, but my advice would be to just put the English translation down if you're writing for an anglophone audience.  Or if you'd rather have the poetry of the Spanish version, then just put that and skip the translation.  But having both is going to be tough without (as kitreshawn said) dragging the reader out of the story.  Maybe have a translator up there on stage, and then like everything he says is in parentheses after the Spanish lyrics?  I don't know... kind of ruins the mood, I would say, but....


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## kitreshawn (May 12, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> *cha-ching* (unless you looked it up on Google.  In which case, you're a cheater)




Your fault for not making rules before I won the contest.  ;P

Actually I suspected it was Accolade II but wasn't sure, so I looked up the lyrics for it just for fun.  In retrospect it probably would have been faster to just Google the lyrics.


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## M. LeRenard (May 12, 2008)

CHEATER


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