# What's the consensus on vr?



## Kope (Jan 13, 2022)

Will it ever take off like the video game industry did? Is it too niche? The only true AAA game we've seen was Half Life Alex so idk. I like the tech though.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 13, 2022)

Vr has a lot of potential, but other than re-releasing old games with VR compatibility, I haven't seen anything worth justifying the purchase. For me, anyway. The more modern VR headset (Oculus) was back from 2012. I honestly don't have a lot of hope that I'll play something as immersive and worthwhile before I'm 50.


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## Aryte (Jan 13, 2022)

I was extremely skeptical at first, but after being talked into giving it a try there is a lot of charm to it. I only really run about on Neos, but it has the same sort of charm as early Second Life. Fairly inviting, fun community with a lot of creativity. As far as gaming at large, I think the jury is still out on that.


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## Mambi (Jan 13, 2022)

Kope said:


> Will it ever take off like the video game industry did? Is it too niche? The only true AAA game we've seen was Half Life Alex so idk. I like the tech though.



The idea behind it is awesome, but once they find a way to do away with the headsets or lighten their weight greatly you'll see it take off totally. Until then a good half the market will reject it becasue they don't want to look like a dork getting neckstrain while effectively sealed away from someone right beside them.


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## ben909 (Jan 13, 2022)

my view

it feels like we are viewing it like 3d tech and 3d tvs, and those are rare now


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## LameFox (Jan 13, 2022)

I think for personal uses it might eventually replace a monitor. For gaming it's less wasted vision, for other purposes it could save space, allowing for instance that I could look around a virtual desktop and be doing multiple things without needing three screens in front of me.

My impression at the moment though is that it's not really at a point of convenience and comfort where I'd even be willing to buy it and test this. Especially not one that's owned by facebook.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 13, 2022)

Having tried virtual reality I didn't really enjoy it. It felt like a gimmick to me. Just two screens pushed way up close against my eyeballs.


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## Kope (Jan 13, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Having tried virtual reality I didn't really enjoy it. It felt like a gimmick to me. Just two screens pushed way up close against my eyeballs.


I like the interactivity with your actual hands in game personally


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## Marius Merganser (Jan 13, 2022)

I think it may grow in popularity as better technology becomes affordable enough for the general population consumer. 

I haven't played Star Wars Squadrons, but I would love to try that in VR


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 13, 2022)

Personally, easier for me to work out in this than in just physical reality.  Yeah, even with just VRChat (have you seen the climbing maps?).

And anyone telling me "those aren't enough movement" needs to consider combining the needed motions with weighted clothing.

Overall, I think VR is going to be a bit slow to take off, but when the normal equipment is lighter and tracking options expand it's going to be a MASSIVE deal.


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## Kope (Jan 14, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Personally, easier for me to work out in this than in just physical reality.  Yeah, even with just VRChat (have you seen the climbing maps?).
> 
> And anyone telling me "those aren't enough movement" needs to consider combining the needed motions with weighted clothing.
> 
> Overall, I think VR is going to be a bit slow to take off, but when the normal equipment is lighter and tracking options expand it's going to be a MASSIVE deal.


I used to be overweight but ever since I got vr I'm only slightly overweight now. ; __;

I tried vr chat, but my social anxiety makes me freeze up everytime and I can't speak to anyone.


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## Yakamaru (Jan 14, 2022)

Personally I find VR overpriced and overhyped. Looks fun for the first couple of days, then you go find something else to do/play. Game library doesn't look to be big either.


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## Kope (Jan 14, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Personally I find VR overpriced and overhyped. Looks fun for the first couple of days, then you go find something else to do/play. Game library doesn't look to be big either.


Yeah I'm kinda excited for hitman vr to come to pc though


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## Pomorek (Jan 14, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Personally I find VR overpriced and overhyped. Looks fun for the first couple of days, then you go find something else to do/play. Game library doesn't look to be big either.


Gotta agree. From my perspective it costs an arm and a leg, but does it offer that much in the end?... Also why these VR games/whatever (at least those I've ran into by accident on YT) all need to use disembodied pair of hands floating in the air?... It would break the immersion for me big time. (And don't say it's too hard to animate whole arms following the hands, Inverse Kinematics is what should do the trick and it exists in the 3D CGI since forever.)

But that's all kinda too bad, as the VR as a concept seems very cool to me and I still have hopes for it. Guess we need to wait for better solutions to arrive. The current situation with the GPUs is probably not helping, as far as I understand the VR needs rather beefy graphics card to work.


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## Kope (Jan 14, 2022)

Pomorek said:


> Gotta agree. From my perspective it costs an arm and a leg, but does it offer that much in the end?... Also why these VR games/whatever (at least those I've ran into by accident on YT) all need to use disembodied pair of hands floating in the air?... It would break the immersion for me big time. (And don't say it's too hard to animate whole arms following the hands, Inverse Kinematics is what should do the trick and it exists in the 3D CGI since forever.)
> 
> But that's all kinda too bad, as the VR as a concept seems very cool to me and I still have hopes for it. Guess we need to wait for better solutions to arrive. The current situation with the GPUs is probably not helping, as far as I understand the VR needs rather beefy graphics card to work.


It’s not very comfortable to use either as some have mentioned. So I feel like when they get rid of that weight and make it more like putting on sunglasses it will pop off.


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## Yakamaru (Jan 14, 2022)

The technology is an interesting one for sure that I will be watching. It is however at the current date not something I am interested in. If they can add some sort of input like that of a keyboard and mouse(which probably won't come for another decade or more) be it through reading your eye movement or something it can take off. Imagine playing games like World of Warcraft or other MMORPG's in full 3D and without having to flail your limbs around with controllers in your hands like a complete fucking moron. Would be a cool experience even if it could end up a short one.


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## LameFox (Jan 14, 2022)

Yeah, controllers are a big drawback to me as well. Gloves I could do, limited head tracking while otherwise using pc normally I could do. Controllers just seem like some clunky intermediate phase the tech is going through.


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## Kope (Jan 14, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> The technology is an interesting one for sure that I will be watching. It is however at the current date not something I am interested in. If they can add some sort of input like that of a keyboard and mouse(which probably won't come for another decade or more) be it through reading your eye movement or something it can take off. Imagine playing games like World of Warcraft or other MMORPG's in full 3D and without having to flail your limbs around with controllers in your hands like a complete fucking moron. Would be a cool experience even if it could end up a short one.


I actually think PSVR 2 has eye tracking if I remember right.


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## Kope (Jan 14, 2022)

LameFox said:


> Yeah, controllers are a big drawback to me as well. Gloves I could do, limited head tracking while otherwise using pc normally I could do. Controllers just seem like some clunky intermediate phase the tech is going through.


I think meta/Facebook made some vr gloves. Although I hate them as a company they have done much for innovation in the vr world.


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## LameFox (Jan 14, 2022)

Kope said:


> I think meta/Facebook made some vr gloves. Although I hate them as a company they have done much for innovation in the vr world.


There are some out there, yeah. I've not really found it appealing enough in general to look into how far along they are, but normally when I see VR games and apps it seems like controllers are still the default.

Facebook makes me laugh with how they're somehow into VR but also putting out the most cringe inducing, offputting marketing possible. I guess that's what you get when a rich guy with the personality of stale bread decides his company should buy more interesting ones.


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## Deleted member 106754 (Jan 14, 2022)

Just like a few years ago I think the main take still remains:

-It needs to get cheaper(Both acquiring a headset and running it smoothly hardware requirement wise)
-VR Displays/panels need to get even better still
-Chicken and an egg sort of thing where more high budget and bigger teams need to develop for it, but the userbase and profit isn't there yet.

If however it was as cheap to get a hold of a good headset for 200-300 bucks new, and they were as good or better than a vive and a great deal more high quality games to get I do believe it would look different. A big snag however still is that games made with a controller or keyboard and mouse in mind, in many times will not work or play the same with a headset.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 14, 2022)

LameFox said:


> There are some out there, yeah. I've not really found it appealing enough in general to look into how far along they are, but normally when I see VR games and apps it seems like controllers are still the default.


And a lot of VR games that use controllers don't have a use for more than one grip button at present.  I have one of the sets of controllers that recognizes individual fingers (the Index controllers) and I have to wear fingerless gloves during VR gaming because (a) my ceiling is too low and (b) there's too MUCH sensitivity in my fingers with the way I grip normally unless I cover a lot of the finger's space.

Haptic gloves may be in my future when I have a place with a higher ceiling, and I'll be glad when they're more widely accepted as a substitute for controllers.



Pomorek said:


> Also why these VR games/whatever (at least those I've ran into by accident on YT) all need to use disembodied pair of hands floating in the air?


When you remove the "too difficult to animate" part, I actually think one of the main reasons for the "Rayman approach", so to speak, is visibility.  Hands take up a LOT less visual real estate than fully-animated arms do, and in first-person that can actually matter much more than you'd think.


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## PLEASE DELETE ACCOUNT (Jan 16, 2022)

Kope said:


> Will it ever take off like the video game industry did? Is it too niche? The only true AAA game we've seen was Half Life Alex so idk. I like the tech though.


I think its time will come but we are still in the teething period.
People forget that VR tech demos started in the 80s and had salable tech in the early 90s both for games, press launches, and workstations.

The hurdles I personally see are all purely technical still:

Us glasses wearers are usually left out in the cold
_processing power is always holding you back in everything_
trying to capture human head movement/tracking and playing a rendered image back in real time is hard ( humans never stand still, get it wrong and make it too still and it looks fake, get it wrong the other direction and the movement is too much or jerky and not granular enough and it becomes offputting)
uncanny valley affects more than just human faces : the closer you get to reality, and miss being perfect, the more glaring minor errors become. Humans are not good number crunchers, but are dang good comparators and can find faults and errors even if they cannot actually identify what it is they subconciously reject it.. 
game mechanics are centered about specific input devices (mouse, keyboard, controller) rather than a human being and until we change that game play always seems a little clumsy to me in VR - games made for VR often have to be dumbed down in some capacity. A lot of them are on rails shooters still...same as the 1990s arcades

that said there are other areas where its pretty helful and useful :
Cad Design has used VR in some for or another since the 90's
remote robotic surgery uses VR or very heavily augmented AR to give you all sorts of information above what you might actually be able to see naked eye, and gives you more control and precision + accuracy.
if you count augmented reality, then basically every drone with a camera that gives you a HUD counts


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## Rimna (Jan 16, 2022)

I just read this as "what's the consensus of war" and I thought that's funny.

VR is still relatively new. In my opinion, it's going to get better and better as time goes on. I for one would love to have a VR racing simulator, or a flight simulator, or some crazy platformer like CS 1.6 jump maps.


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## Kope (Jan 16, 2022)

Rimna said:


> I just read this as "what's the consensus of war" and I thought that's funny.
> 
> VR is still relatively new. In my opinion, it's going to get better and better as time goes on. I for one would love to have a VR racing simulator, or a flight simulator, or some crazy platformer like CS 1.6 jump maps.


I’m gonna need a doggy bag if those get developed


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## Mambi (Jan 16, 2022)

Question: When I was growing up, I was constantly told by my parents "Don't sit to close to the TV, it's bad for your eyes!". Even doctors and PSA's said the same thing. 

So now in VR we're strapping 2 screens about a half an inch from our eyes for hours at a time. What changed?


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## Fallowfox (Jan 16, 2022)

Mambi said:


> Question: When I was growing up, I was constantly told by my parents "Don't sit to close to the TV, it's bad for your eyes!". Even doctors and PSA's said the same thing.
> 
> So now in VR we're strapping 2 screens about a half an inch from our eyes for hours at a time. What changed?



Televisions when we were children contained cathode-ray-tubes and phosphorescent screens. 

This means they were actually tiny particle accelerators, with a stream of energetic electrons zapping the pixels in the screen to make them glow. 
That radiation probably isn't very good for you. I remember when I was a child placing my hands on the screen and feeling all fuzzy and prickly because of the charge. 

Modern televisions are usually flat-screens and they don't typically work by accelerating electrons etc. So the same risk doesn't exist.


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## Mambi (Jan 16, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Televisions when we were children contained cathode-ray-tubes and phosphorescent screens.
> 
> This means they were actually tiny particle accelerators, with a stream of energetic electrons zapping the pixels in the screen to make them glow.
> That radiation probably isn't very good for you. I remember when I was a child placing my hands on the screen and feeling all fuzzy and prickly because of the charge.
> ...



You're probably right, but I remember the reason being given as "eyestrain from constant close-focus" (to which my brain went "like reading a book?"), and "forcing you to stare at flickering lights" which I suppose the flicker is gone now I guess but the first one still applies.


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## Nexus Cabler (Jan 16, 2022)

I've never tried VR before, but it sounds like a lot of fun.


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## Mambi (Jan 16, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> I've never tried VR before, but it sounds like a lot of fun.



I have a hard enough time handling just "r" somedays. _<giggle>_


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## LameFox (Jan 16, 2022)

Christine Vulpes said:


> Us glasses wearers are usually left out in the cold


I feel like that's less of a technical problem and more of a willingness to solve it problem. I've had pairs of cheap binoculars decades ago that could be adjusted to suit the user's vision. Surely they could do the same with lenses inserted ahead of the screens.


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## Regret (Jan 16, 2022)

It looks like a lot of fun but I feel like I would quickly get bored when the novelty inevitably wears off.  Furthermore, I cannot justify the costs in its current form.  Maybe in about ten years or so things will have changed.


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## PLEASE DELETE ACCOUNT (Jan 16, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Televisions when we were children contained cathode-ray-tubes and phosphorescent screens.
> 
> This means they were actually tiny particle accelerators, with a stream of energetic electrons zapping the pixels in the screen to make them glow.
> That radiation probably isn't very good for you. I remember when I was a child placing my hands on the screen and feeling all fuzzy and prickly because of the charge.
> ...


One important thing to note is it's also an old wives tale with a tiny nugget of truth. 

For a long time, especially in the earlier years of crt, yes they did emit detectable X-rays.

However by the time of the 70s or 80s consumer tvs we're starting to, and almost all computer monitors after the mid 80s  moved to leaded glass, and aluminised reflector deposition created a near perfect faraday cage, and made the radiation you get from a crt effectively meaningless ( if you worry about it, you might want to stop eating bananas, never fly a plane, never get a dental X-ray, stop using a phone, and avoid the ozone smell after a rain storm on a hot day...)

Any sort of fluorescent or arc base lamp ( cold cathodes, sodium Vapor etc - emits similar levels at their normal use distance of 1-2 micro teslas - and cold cathodes are what lit your lcd monitor for decades)

Eye strain people have from crt is a multiple compounding issue but radiation is not part of it.

One important note is when one looks at a crt you focus on the glass itself, but the image emissive screen is about 10mm further back on a curved display and can be further back on a flat glass model.
 This in itself causes eye strain. All non dual axis curved displays also have convergence issues that lead to eye strain ( flat glass, trinitron single axis curves and it's copy cats)

Another thing is just fatigue of staring at a black box that rapidly occasionally burns about 2% of the area insanely bright for a milisecond. About 98% of the screen is black at any one time relying on your fact your brain can't process it fast enough But your eyes themselves actually can sort of try and adjust.

Flicker is another big deal, for 60hz power countries anything below about 72 starts to have overlap with the dimming/flicker of your lighting and causes an increased perception of display flicker. 

In 50hz countries this is about 60hz or so, but by then it's dipping down into an area where your peripheral vision can detect the flicker anyway. ( for both of these we also ignore scan doubling and interlacing technics for broadcast tv )

Crt gets a lot of undeserved bad rep. And people forget where it really needs to get a bad rep : massive amounts of E waste, heavy metals, large and bulky, hard to make ( with very high defect rate) fragile and prone to damage yards yada yada.


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## Kope (Jan 16, 2022)

Alis309 said:


> I believe we will progress faster than we think and vr will overtake society and be a staple for how we game.


Eh I think regular screen gaming will always be a thing


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## TyraWadman (Jan 16, 2022)

Kope said:


> Eh I think regular screen gaming will always be a thing


I think so too.
Considering how many people get motion sickness without VR, I can't imagine it selling like wildfire until they develop it for another few decades.


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## TrishaCat (Jan 16, 2022)

I tried VR out at a friends house with Skyrim VR and Beat Saber and I thought it was really cool! Skyrim VR made it feel even more like you were the hero and there was a degree of naturalness to the movement that feels really good. Its nice that you can even moreso be a part of the world in that way. Beat Saber VR was amazing but because of the small platform and empty space outside of it I constantly felt like I was going to fall down. Fun game though.

I really like VR! A shame its so expensive.


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## space_strayCat (Jan 17, 2022)

I think vr is great but people's interests on it are dropping. I mean, there's the immersion of actually seeing the virtual space of a game all around you and getting to interact with objects within them but some people, including me, still find that quite lacking.

I'd rather stay with playing on a screen than have two screens close to my eyes.


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