# fursuit symbols and markings u have to be careful of that might offend people



## crawdad (Jan 24, 2013)

some markings u have to be careful of is native american symbols and real feathers if its any bird of pry i would not use it
these things can get u in trouble by law and etc


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## Ranguvar (Jan 24, 2013)

Ok


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## jorinda (Jan 24, 2013)

I understand about real feathers. Birds of already andangered species shouldn't be used as decoration.
I understand about political symbols. Or religious ones. They might look weird on a fursuit.

But why do native american symbols cause trouble?


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## Ansitru (Jan 24, 2013)

jorinda said:


> I understand about real feathers. Birds of already andangered species shouldn't be used as decoration.
> I understand about political symbols. Or religious ones. They might look weird on a fursuit.
> 
> But why do native american symbols cause trouble?



Because the social justice crowd on Tumblr will call you a racist, culture-apropriating dipshit. 
Because, you know: whities aren't allowed to make use of symbols from other cultures. :v


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## Fallowfox (Jan 24, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Because the social justice crowd on Tumblr will call you a racist, culture-apropriating dipshit.
> Because, you know: whities aren't allowed to make use of symbols from other cultures. :v




Inside a fursuit nobody can tell what skin colour you are. I assume some people think it belittles culture. Meh it doesn't really.


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## Batty Krueger (Jan 24, 2013)

All fursuiters are white.  Like bikers :v

Anyway I have seen some really retarded symbols on fursuits before.


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## Ansitru (Jan 24, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Inside a fursuit nobody can tell what skin colour you are. I assume some people think it belittles culture. Meh it doesn't really.



If you're using these symbols, you're automatically racist. Check your privilege. :v
_Obviously _the fursuit isn't depicting a native, so your character has _no right_ to wear those feathers.

I may have a pretty intense dislike for the social justice warriors since they once decided to harass me over a *drawing*.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jan 24, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> If you're using these symbols, you're automatically racist. Check your privilege. :v
> _Obviously _the fursuit isn't depicting a native, so your character has _no right_ to wear those feathers.
> 
> I may have a pretty intense dislike for the social justice warriors since they once decided to harass me over a *drawing*.


 Typical PC Thug Behavior


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## Ansitru (Jan 24, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Typical PC Thug Behavior



Bored people looking for things to get pissed about, mostly.
And when you ask "_What can I change, can you please tell me why this is offensive?_", you get the standardised answer of "_Not my fucking problem, educate yourself you racist moron._"

Well fuck you too, then. Ã² n Ã³
I'll stop talking now.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 24, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> If you're using these symbols, you're automatically racist. Check your privilege. :v
> _Obviously _the fursuit isn't depicting a native, so your character has _no right_ to wear those feathers.
> 
> I may have a pretty intense dislike for the social justice warriors since they once decided to harass me over a *drawing*.



What was 'wrong' with the drawing? 

And I've heard of similar before; on an online game users could draw their own backgrounds. A famous user decided to draw a level about china and drew himilayan and sichuan scenery. He was then excessively flamed for not making china look modern enough.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jan 24, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> What was 'wrong' with the drawing?
> 
> And I've heard of similar before; on an online game users could draw their own backgrounds. A famous user decided to draw a level about china and drew himilayan and sichuan scenery. He was then excessively flamed for not making china look modern enough.


 Not enough smog, I'll bet.


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## Ansitru (Jan 24, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> What was 'wrong' with the drawing?
> 
> And I've heard of similar before; on an online game users could draw their own backgrounds. A famous user decided to draw a level about china and drew himilayan and sichuan scenery. He was then excessively flamed for not making china look modern enough.



I drew a character holding a heart and added Dia de Los Muertos make-up because I like the imagery and how it's not to depict doom & gloom, despite what the name of the celebrations would have you believe.
Little did I know I was being a racist-as-fuck whiny whitey. :v

[Edit] Forgot to mention that the funniest part was that people who actually were from Mexico liked the drawing and that non-Mexicans were actually shitting themselves over "misuse of culture". Some people.


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## Fay V (Jan 24, 2013)

offense be damned, symbols are symbols. do what you want with a fursuit, just be prepared for your backlash. Don't use animal parts though. 

Not for "omg animals are special" reasons. Birds are covered in parasites, bacteria, and diseases which don't necessarily affect them but can be transferred to mammalian hosts. Even if you clean the feathers properly (admittedly not terribly hard) dead tissues are harder to care for than synthetic, the materials bald under stress. 
it's also why fur is a terrible choice. it has to be cared for very specifically and in general will just bald out under fursuiting stress. 

that and you know, illegal to own bird of prey feathers without papers.


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## Ozriel (Jan 24, 2013)

Possessing eagle feathers is another different vegetable. If you aren't 1/2 or more, or Shaman or chieftain didn't give it to you, it's illegal.


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## Fox_720B (Jan 24, 2013)

But what if your SPIRIT is an eagle?? Surely that makes it OK. Just show the officials your avian fursuit, all will be fine. :V


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## Ozriel (Jan 24, 2013)

Fox_720B said:


> But what if your SPIRIT is an eagle?? Surely that makes it OK. Just show the officials your avian fursuit, all will be fine. :V



Not half or more native? No Eagle feather.


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## Zenia (Jan 24, 2013)

I love eagle feathers. I guess it is good that it isn't illegal to have a feather here? Is it really in the States? I mean, we can't go shooting the eagles here but if we find a feather we are allowed to have it. Also, eagles aren't endangered here. It is like all the bald eagles in the world live on Vancouver Island. Not really a rare sight here.


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## RadioactiveRedFox (Jan 24, 2013)

Zenia said:


> I love eagle feathers. I guess it is good that it isn't illegal to have a feather here? Is it really in the States? I mean, we can't go shooting the eagles here but if we find a feather we are allowed to have it. Also, eagles aren't endangered here. It is like all the bald eagles in the world live on Vancouver Island. Not really a rare sight here.



Possessing anything from an endangered species carries some pretty harsh penalties here, even if its a feather you found lying on the ground.


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## Ozriel (Jan 24, 2013)

Zenia said:


> I love eagle feathers. I guess it is good that it isn't illegal to have a feather here? Is it really in the States? I mean, we can't go shooting the eagles here but if we find a feather we are allowed to have it. Also, eagles aren't endangered here. It is like all the bald eagles in the world live on Vancouver Island. Not really a rare sight here.



Illegal to own one unless what I stated above in the US. Though there are small loopholes. It has to be handed to you by a chieftain (Or tribal official in Yuppie terms) if you are part or not. 

I have a feather and it was given to me last November. I keep it in my lockbox for safekeeping. Even then, why would anyone want to use real bird feathers for a fursuit?


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## Fallowfox (Jan 24, 2013)

Don't they make fake feathers that are just as good or even more colourful anyway?


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## Fay V (Jan 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Not half or more native? No Eagle feather.


you can own them if you work in falconry, or have them for the use of education and enlightenment, but again paperwork. 
When I was working with raptor rescue we would collect the wing and tail feathers that shed (no one cares about the downy ones) because we have to have certification to even have raptor feathers, and the feathers can be used to help repair messed up tail feathers or something, which happens a lot with injured birds. 

the more you know...


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## Zenia (Jan 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> why would anyone want to use real bird feathers for a fursuit?


That I think would indeed be silly. Like, an anthro eagle character trying to use real feathers or something.

However, if I found a nice feather (and cleaned it) and wanted to make something with it... like hanging them with metals/beads on earrings... I might. I am not sure if feathers are as special to the coast salish people here as they are to some other Native peoples so I would try not to be offensive about it. But still, it is like when I wear a cross sometimes but I am not a Christian. I think.

But yeah, decorating a fursuit (if it isn't a single piece of jewlery or something) would be silly. Just use faux material.


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## Nordo Huskamute (Jan 25, 2013)

Zenia said:


> I love eagle feathers. I guess it is good that it isn't illegal to have a feather here? Is it really in the States? I mean, we can't go shooting the eagles here but if we find a feather we are allowed to have it. Also, eagles aren't endangered here. It is like all the bald eagles in the world live on Vancouver Island. Not really a rare sight here.



Same here in Southeast Alaska, those dirty trash-birds are everywhere.  "Oh, but they are so noble!" Whatever, they are idiots compared to the ravens, now there is a smart and tough bird.
BTW, I'll be passing right over Nanaimo tomorrow morning, taking my plane to Washington.  I'll be the one making sweet Lycoming powered music cruising serenely southward...


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## Teal (Jan 25, 2013)

Zenia said:


> That I think would indeed be silly. Like, an anthro eagle character trying to use real feathers or something.
> 
> However, if I found a nice feather (and cleaned it) and wanted to make something with it... like hanging them with metals/beads on earrings... I might. I am not sure if feathers are as special to the coast salish people here as they are to some other Native peoples so I would try not to be offensive about it. But still, it is like when I wear a cross sometimes but I am not a Christian. I think.
> 
> But yeah, decorating a fursuit (if it isn't a single piece of jewlery or something) would be silly. Just use faux material.


 I've made chicken feather earrings.


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## crawdad (Jan 29, 2013)

people ask why native american symbol can get in trouble
besause some of them they use for relgious if u use a native american symbol what i would do is ask  that tribe or look up history what it was for


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## Ozriel (Jan 29, 2013)

Fay V said:


> you can own them if you work in falconry, or have them for the use of education and enlightenment, but again paperwork.
> When I was working with raptor rescue we would collect the wing and tail feathers that shed (no one cares about the downy ones) because we have to have certification to even have raptor feathers, and the feathers can be used to help repair messed up tail feathers or something, which happens a lot with injured birds.
> 
> the more you know...



I worked with poisonous snakes on my tour of animal duty so I wouldn't know aside from that. :V
"Defanged poisonous snakes" at the Zoo but still. :V



Nordo Huskamute said:


> Same here in Southeast Alaska, those dirty trash-birds are everywhere.  "Oh, but they are so noble!" Whatever, they are idiots compared to the ravens, now there is a smart and tough bird.
> BTW, I'll be passing right over Nanaimo tomorrow morning, taking my plane to Washington.  I'll be the one making sweet Lycoming powered music cruising serenely southward...



They're noble because the Amurriiikkkan people say so since it is our national bird. Ever seen an eagle beat the snot out of an Osprey for a fish? Eagles are jack-asses.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 29, 2013)

crawdad said:


> people ask why native american symbol can get in trouble
> besause some of them they use for relgious if u use a native american symbol what i would do is ask  that tribe or look up history what it was for



Moons and stars, crosses, interlace, spirals, hand prints, wheels etcetera are all used as religious symbols across the world. When people choose to use symbols in art for their aesthetic value any worshipers of these symbols should understand the pointlessness in contesting such a trivial thing. 

It reminds me one time my dad went to a fancy dress party in a kilt. An old scotsman took offense, said 'That's nae fancy dress!' and stormed off. Mountain out of a mole hile.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jan 29, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> They're noble because the Amurriiikkkan people say so since it is our national bird. Ever seen an eagle beat the snot out of an Osprey for a fish? Eagles are jack-asses.


  It's a very _fitting_ national bird for a great many Americans. A turkey would've been a good choice also.


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## Ozriel (Jan 29, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> It's a very _fitting_ national bird for a great many Americans. A turkey would've been a good choice also.



"We beat up and steal the little guy's shit." :V


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## Fallowfox (Jan 29, 2013)

A good national bird for america would be the blue bird, then everyone could learn that blue birds will _never_ be over the white cliffs of dover.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jan 29, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> A good national bird for america would be the blue bird, then everyone could learn that blue birds will _never_ be over the white cliffs of dover.


They don't have any species of Bluebird in the UK?


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## Fallowfox (Jan 29, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> They don't have any species of Bluebird in the UK?



Nope. The song was written by a man who had never been within 3000mi of Dover.

I imagine the bird representative of dover would be a sea gull.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jan 29, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Nope. The song was written by a man who had never been within 3000mi of Dover.
> 
> I imagine the bird representative of dover would be a sea gull.


How much of that is chalk, and how much is bird shit?


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## Fay V (Jan 30, 2013)

crawdad said:


> people ask why native american symbol can get in trouble
> besause some of them they use for relgious if u use a native american symbol what i would do is ask  that tribe or look up history what it was for


You know, being overly sensitive is equally inconsiderate and insensitive as simply using the items, if not more so. 
Not only do you rely on certain stereotypes, but you're basically saying these people can't handle someone using anything remotely associated with them. 

Native americans aren't the only ones to use feathers as a symbol. If you want to tip toe around symbols and religion you might as well do some in depth research into the exact symbolic meaning for every animal in every culture before you make a fursuit. This isn't to say you should throw on a dime store headdress, paint yourself up, run around half naked and yell "how" at people, but going out of your way to treat group of people more gently is racism, it's a sneaky kind where you feel good about yourself while you treat these people like they are weaker. It ties in with the "noble savage" ideas.

The thought in general is nice, don't go out of your way to copy cultural looks or symbols if you don't know what they mean, but don't start thinking every feather, every animal, every handprint, every symbol needs to be given blessing by whatever group.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 30, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> How much of that is chalk, and how much is bird shit?



On this note, peruvian Guano cliffs:






and on another tangent the good residents of Shitlington, UK, used to make their living mining coprolite- or fossilised poo, as a fertiliser. The town was embarrassed and changed its name to shillington eventually.


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## Teal (Jan 30, 2013)

I guess fursuits shouldn't have markings at all. Or even be most animals.


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## Artslave (Jan 31, 2013)

Fay V said:


> You know, being overly sensitive is equally inconsiderate and insensitive as simply using the items, if not more so.
> Not only do you rely on certain stereotypes, but you're basically saying these people can't handle someone using anything remotely associated with them.
> 
> Native americans aren't the only ones to use feathers as a symbol. If you want to tip toe around symbols and religion you might as well do some in depth research into the exact symbolic meaning for every animal in every culture before you make a fursuit. This isn't to say you should throw on a dime store headdress, paint yourself up, run around half naked and yell "how" at people, but going out of your way to treat group of people more gently is racism, it's a sneaky kind where you feel good about yourself while you treat these people like they are weaker. It ties in with the "noble savage" ideas.
> ...



+Favourites this post 1,000 times.

People need to stop being afraid of offending people. No matter what you fucking do, it's going to offend someone's sensibilities. We get along as a society by shutting our faceholes and not bringing it up in polite conversation. If someone isn't going out of their way to offend you, and you're offended? Try shutting the fuck up and being a human being instead of storming off in a huff to post about it on your PC Justice warrior circle wanks. 

/feels strongly about this issue


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## Artslave (Jan 31, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> A good national bird for america would be the blue bird, then everyone could learn that blue birds will _never_ be over the white cliffs of dover.



We might not have bluebirds over the white cliffs of the Appalachians for much longer. I haven't seen one in YEARS, but the sparrow population is thriving.


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