# Smash 4 To Not Have Cutscenes Because "lol internet"



## PastryOfApathy (Jul 25, 2013)

In another instance of Nintendo showing that they're hell bent on proving that they're completely out of touch with the 21st century, Super Smash Bros 4 won't have cutscenes because they'll inevitably be uploaded to the internet. Sakurai claims this is because "You can only truly wow a player the first time he sees [a cutscene]", and that he  "felt if players saw the cutscenes outside of the game, they would no  longer serve as rewards for playing the game."

Good job Nintendo. 


Source


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## Vaelarsa (Jul 25, 2013)

How does someone's brain even work like that?

I don't...


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## Troj (Jul 25, 2013)

Because you're not enjoying my art the way *I* want you to, you don't get any art at all! Wah!


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

Well, not that I care about cutscenes for any game, but that is some supreme bullshit logic. Sakurai, you're smarter than that. 
The fights will end up online too. Should you not make the game?!?


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## Heliophobic (Jul 25, 2013)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I can't fucking... I can't even...


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 25, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> How does someone's brain even work like that?
> 
> I don't...



This is Nintendo we're talking about. Trying to understand their logic is like reading the Necronomicon to a group of children. It's incomprehensible, frustrating, and utterly maddening.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 25, 2013)

that's terrible logic, but honestly cutscenes are over used in games and have been used as a crutch by way too many games. So i think it's good that one AAA title just totally gets rid of cutscenes, this could lead to some newer forms of storytelling that video games can use to make themselves unique.


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## Saga (Jul 25, 2013)

"We wont use cutscenes because seeing them online will ruin the game; they're too good"

Nobody gets to see them at all anyways

logic


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 25, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> that's terrible logic, but honestly cutscenes are over used in games and have been used as a crutch by way too many games. So i think it's good that one AAA title just totally gets rid of cutscenes, this could lead to some newer forms of storytelling that video games can use to make themselves unique.



You're right...but this is Smash, not Half-Life. It's not going to blaze any new trails in the realm of interactive storytelling.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 25, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> You're right...but this is Smash, not Half-Life. It's not going to blaze any new trails in the realm of interactive storytelling.


It's smash so who knows, also the last one i felt had a good story for being completely silent. I kind of wanna see how they handle the challenge of no cutscenes.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> This is Nintendo we're talking about. Trying to understand their logic is like reading the Necronomicon to a group of children. It's incomprehensible, frustrating, and utterly maddening.



I actually...agree with you on that. 
It's sad because SAKURAI was the last remaining big wig I had respect for in that snooty company. I mean...I still do. It's just cutscenes, but if this sort of logic begins to permeate through the rest of his projects in areas it truly counts, well, fuck. 

Like what if he said "Oh the music will just end up on YouTube and downloaded with FS", and he omitted music? lol


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## Clancy (Jul 25, 2013)

fhbfgh fgh fg h


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## Runefox (Jul 25, 2013)

Oh, I was going to make a movie, but if people saw it outside of a movie theatre, that wouldn't be the "wow" experience they'd be looking for. So I decided to make it a puppet show.


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## Cuukie (Jul 25, 2013)

looks like the cutscenes...were CUT

although I don't agree with their position on taking out cutscenes as cutscenes add to the cinematic value and help get immersed in the game, I wonder how games would be different. I can imagine it would make the story telling difficult.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2013)

I'll use the logic Nintendo said about XBox and used games "If you're worried about cutscenes being uploaded ruining your game, then make better games"


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

A lot of people are saying that this will free up space on the disc, not having the cutscenes.


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## TrishaCat (Jul 25, 2013)

I heard about this a while back. It made me unhappy because I loved the cutscenes and storyline of Brawl. It gave the game more replayability and made the story mode actually worth playing in my opinion. The lack of a story is one of the things I don't like about Melee.

This really dissapoints me. I'd still play Smash Bros, but now I feel that 4's story mode will be an empty shell in comparison to Brawl.

I hope 4 still winds up fun enough to keep me occupied. This severely hurts the game in my opinion, unless they somehow manage to implement a storyline some other way.
I can't play Melee for very long without getting bored.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

I just realized something.

They tried to cockblock Melee's EVO stream on the Internet.
They tried to cockblock Let's players content on the Internet.
And while it doesn't really matter, they're removing cutscenes from a game because they'll be put...on the Internet. 

Nintendo has been really scared of the Internet.


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## Ketsuo (Jul 25, 2013)

Oh man.  I've been a fan of Nintendo for a long time but with all they've done in recent years I barely care about them anymore.  I can't believe Sakurai who is probably Nintendo's best developer at the moment would use this excuse.  Its the internet for crying out loud.  What doesn't end up there?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

The game's still gonna be fantastic and with no cutscenes wasting space on the disc, they MIGHT actually use it for more important things like characters, stages, modes, settings, etc. They could very well use this to increase the longevity of the game or make it play better. Both things we already know would have been in abundance. It really is _just_ the logic that absolutely boggles me and like I said, it further indicates a pattern of this new WWWphobia from Nintendo (some of it being justified, but most of it being tryhard).


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## TrishaCat (Jul 25, 2013)

Yep.
Nintendo doesn't want their stuff on the internet. They want their stuff to be experienced by gamers themselves.
I actually have a friend who watches people play games rather then playing them himself sometimes. I suppose watching them and knowing what's happening spoils games somewhat and may make it less fun, and I realize that some people may prefer watching rather then buying the games, but really, even so, the internet is where pretty much any piece of information get shared. Trying to hide from it is a bad idea I think.

Instead, Nintendo should try utilize the internet to their advantage.


XoPachi said:


> they MIGHT actually use it for more important things like characters, stages, modes, settings, etc.


http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6829779

I know its a fighting game and all that...And fighting games aren't known for their storylines but...I still feel that Smash with a story would be so much better then without...
Though all that stuff you said are very important.


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## Vaelarsa (Jul 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> The game's still gonna be fantastic and with no cutscenes wasting space on the disc, they MIGHT actually use it for more important things like characters, stages, modes, settings, etc. They could very well use this to increase the longevity of the game or make it play better. Both things we already know would have been in abundance. It really is _just_ the logic that absolutely boggles me and like I said, it further indicates a pattern of this new WWWphobia from Nintendo (some of it being justified, but most of it being tryhard).


This is what I'm hoping. Melee had a fuckload of characters. I'd like to see that return in lieu of story content trying to justify why Samus Aran and Pikachu should ever exist in the same reality for any reason.

But that will probably be cut, so those unlockable characters won't show up on the internet and "ruin the experience."



Battlechili1 said:


> http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6829779
> 
> I know its a fighting game and all that...And fighting games aren't  known for their storylines but...I still feel that Smash with a story  would be so much better then without...
> Though all that stuff you said are very important.


Dunno about Pachi, but I personally grew up with a generation of games that basically had the story "You are Earth's greatest warrior. There are aliens. They are bad. Shoot them."

And I'm fine with that, if other aspects of the game are good and fun to play.


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## TrishaCat (Jul 25, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> Dunno about Pachi, but I personally grew up with a generation of games that basically had the story "You are Earth's greatest warrior. There are aliens. They are bad. Shoot them."
> 
> And I'm fine with that, if other aspects of the game are good and fun to play.


I'm fine with that as well. I mean I've played a few older games and loved them. I know Megaman 2 didn't really have much of a story, and its one of my favorite games out there.
But video games can be so much more then that. And if they can, then why not try for something more?
Plus I was never really a fan of fighting games. Smash's gameplay was different enough for me to enjoy it, but even so, I'm usually alone. I don't visit many friends very often, so I can only get so much out of playing alone. A story would really help me out and give me more reason to play.

Still, if they aren't going to have a story, then I really do hope they add more of other content.
The thing is though, I remember hearing something about both the 3DS and Wii U versions trying to have the same character roster or something. If that's the case, then adding more characters might not happen. I don't know. I also heard something about Smash Bros 4 having the same number of characters as Brawl.


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## Runefox (Jul 25, 2013)

That guff about cutscenes taking up space on disc is garbage. If they aren't pre-rendered, all that they need are scripts and animations for the 3D models (possibly "cutscene-quality" versions of each model), which are almost literally nothing on a DL-DVD. Frankly I don't know why any modern system should need to pre-render anything anymore to begin with. Even the WiiU. Though, IIRC, SSB:Brawl used pre-rendered cutscenes (not surprising given the Wii's lack of horsepower).


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 25, 2013)

people can make a good story without cutscenes, and if a game relys on cutscenes to tell a story it's not going to be a good story. while getting rid of them entirely is extreme it's better then relying on them to tell a story, instead they could try to tell a game story using the game play, which would be amazing. also the added space for more stuff is very amazing and useful.
Also when it comes to smash it's reason for longivity. Melee was at EVO this year with around 600 entrants and 100,000 people watching the stream and i doubt any person there cared about the story. also brawl wasn't chosen as the 8th game at EVO even though it has cutscenes.
also i have played brawl at least once pretty much every month since it came out. after the first month maybe two the reason for me to continue playing wasn't the story.
I will say this choice although for terrible reasoning is a great choice.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> This is what I'm hoping. Melee had a fuckload of characters. I'd like to see that return in lieu of story content trying to justify why Samus Aran and Pikachu should ever exist in the same reality for any reason.
> 
> But that will probably be cut, so those unlockable characters won't show up on the internet and "ruin the experience."
> 
> ...



Same. Gradius III. First game played. First game beat. I get you 100%. If you know anything about me, it's that story where it isn't important INFURIATES me. That's why Sine Mora was a gimped mess of a game if you ever played it. Too much emphasis on story and pretty graphics not enough time where it counts. Usually when I play a game with an emphasis on story, the gameplay, the thing I paid for is lacking somewhere. Not that this was a problem in Brawl, but refer to my previous comment. The less story or more creatively intertwined (Metroid Prime), the better I say.


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## Stratelier (Jul 25, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Super Smash Bros 4 won't have cutscenes because they'll inevitably be uploaded to the internet.



Are they talking about those victory cutscenes (for completing Classic/Allstars modes) in Melee/Brawl?


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## TrishaCat (Jul 25, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> people can make a good story without cutscenes, and if a game relys on cutscenes to tell a story it's not going to be a good story. while getting rid of them entirely is extreme it's better then relying on them to tell a story, instead they could try to tell a game story using the game play, which would be amazing. also the added space for more stuff is very amazing and useful.
> Also when it comes to smash it's reason for longivity. Melee was at EVO this year with around 600 entrants and 100,000 people watching the stream and i doubt any person there cared about the story. also brawl wasn't chosen as the 8th game at EVO even though it has cutscenes.
> also i have played brawl at least once pretty much every month since it came out. after the first month maybe two the reason for me to continue playing wasn't the story.
> I will say this choice although for terrible reasoning is a great choice.


Cutscenes can tell a good story. Its just that, from what I've been told, if one can tell a story through gameplay, its telling it in the best way possible.(From what I've been told. I don't agree with this idea, necessarily) Melee didn't even have a storyline, really. Just a bunch of random stages fit together that led to Bowser as a final boss. Or, if you played Classic mode, that lead to Master Hand as a final boss. And I replay the single player story on a lot of games. I admit people play Brawl even after beating Subspace Emissary. Even I do that. (I don't own Brawl, I play it with someone who owns a Wii). But at some point, you don't think you'll go back and play the single player and watch all those cutscenes again? Its like a movie really. You watch a movie once, put it down, and later on come back and watch it again.


Stratadrake said:


> Are they talking about those victory cutscenes (for completing Classic/Allstars modes) in Melee/Brawl?


I think they mean like Subspace Emissary in Brawl, where they had cutscenes that all intertwined and made a story in the end, with platforming segments and fights in between.


XoPachi said:


> Same. Gradius III. First game played. First game beat. I get you 100%. If you know anything about me, it's that story where it isn't important INFURIATES me. That's why Sine Mora was a gimped mess of a game if you ever played it. Too much emphasis on story and pretty graphics not enough time where it counts. Usually when I play a game with an emphasis on story, the gameplay, the thing I paid for is lacking somewhere. Not that this was a problem in Brawl, but refer to my previous comment. The less story or more creatively intertwined (Metroid Prime), the better I say.


I have to agree with this somewhat. It sucks when the gameplay is skimped out on.
I don't care as much about gameplay as a lot of other people do, but even so, good gameplay is important, and companies skimping out on that and just focusing on the story or graphics is a big problem that happens sometimes. (Square Enix, I'm looking at you)
I want a focus on everything that makes every aspect of the game (gameplay, storyline, music, etc) really good.
I haven't played it enough to know for sure, but a game that falls under this category of having both brilliant gameplay and a good story is Bioshock, I believe.
And since we're talking fighting games, I heard that Persona 4 Arena has both a good story and good gameplay.


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## septango (Jul 25, 2013)

@snowpaw, fighting games are one of those genres that are extremely hard to tell a story with even if they have cuscenes ( every interaction between characters must end up in a fight) and while a gameplay story in a fighter would be interesting I dont know if fighter mechanics work well enough in that regard, 

the only way off the top of my head is scripted shout outs and  environmental cues


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## Judge Spear (Jul 25, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> Cutscenes can tell a good story. Its just that, from what I've been told, if one can tell a story through gameplay, its telling it in the best way possible.(From what I've been told. I don't agree with this idea, necessarily) Melee didn't even have a storyline, really. Just a bunch of random stages fit together that led to Bowser as a final boss. Or, if you played Classic mode, that lead to Master Hand as a final boss. And I replay the single player story on a lot of games. I admit people play Brawl even after beating Subspace Emissary. Even I do that. (I don't own Brawl, I play it with someone who owns a Wii). But at some point, you don't think you'll go back and play the single player and watch all those cutscenes again? Its like a movie really. You watch a movie once, put it down, and later on come back and watch it again.
> 
> I think they mean like Subspace Emissary in Brawl, where they had cutscenes that all intertwined and made a story in the end, with platforming segments and fights in between.
> 
> ...



I think the only game I've played in my entire life that can get away with putting story first is the Ace Attorney series, the brilliant fucking Ace Attorney series.
 Because you actually have to pay attention to what is being said and even shown (when they started using real cutscenes in AA4) in order to piece together the case. And it's important for there to be slightly more talking than usual in an attempt to stump the player with useful uselessness. It's the one single one game I could ever buy knowing story was put first, because it literally could not work without it. Now this is based on what I've played and am willing to play. I only picked up Phoenix Wright back in the day because I love Law and Order, Good Wife, NCIS, etc and I heard good things about it's puzzle solving. Great shit for Pachi. 

Anything else I've played that tried to do the same? I sell if I made the error of purchasing it and some really offensive examples come to mind.
 I'm not saying DON'T put story in there because it can work like the aforementioned Half-Life, BioShock, and Metroid Prime. I just want it's importance like the art and music, to be put beneath the actual interactive part of the experience because that's the entire purpose of making a video _game_.


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## septango (Jul 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I think the only game I've played in my entire life that can get away with putting story first is the Ace Attorney series, the brilliant fucking Ace Attorney series.
> Because you actually have to pay attention to what is being said and even shown (when they started using real cutscenes in AA4) in order to piece together the case. And it's important for there to be slightly more talking than usual in an attempt to stump the player with useful uselessness. It's the one single one game I could ever buy knowing story was put first, because it literally could not work without it. Now this is based on what I've played and am willing to play. I only picked up Phoenix Wright back in the day because I love Law and Order, Good Wife, NCIS, etc and I heard good things about it's puzzle solving. Great shit for Pachi.
> 
> Anything else I've played that tried to do the same? I sell if I made the error of purchasing it and some really offensive examples come to mind.
> I'm not saying DON'T put story in there because it can work like the aforementioned Half-Life, BioShock, and Metroid Prime. I just want it's importance like the art and music, to be put beneath the actual interactive part of the experience because that's the entire purpose of making a video _game_.



.......s,st,story as... a GAMEPLAY MECHANIC, and not vice versa? ............... GOD DAMMMNNIIIT..... why did "I" not think of that


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> I admit people play Brawl even after beating Subspace Emissary. Even I do that. (I don't own Brawl, I play it with someone who owns a Wii). But at some point, you don't think you'll go back and play the single player and watch all those cutscenes again? Its like a movie really. You watch a movie once, put it down, and later on come back and watch it again.


I think you missed the point about lots of poeple still playing melee and never dropping it regardless of it's lack of story.
and for fighitng games and smash, not really, i'll be too busy playing other poeple and having fun with that.


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## Stratelier (Jul 26, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> I think they mean like Subspace Emissary in Brawl, where they had cutscenes that all intertwined and made a story in the end, with platforming segments and fights in between.


Those kinds of cutscenes could probably be done in-engine, which is much better than pre-rendered.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> I think you missed the point about lots of poeple still playing melee and never dropping it regardless of it's lack of story.
> and for fighitng games and smash, not really, i'll be too busy playing other poeple and having fun with that.



I actually skipped most of Brawl's "story". I just used SSE as a means to get every character. Though personally, I wish they'd nix story mode altogether and go back to unlocking stuff the old fashioned. Hard work. I miss that. :<


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## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

I think their reasoning's fine. They're still making cutscenes (the newcomer videos), it's just that those cutscenes are made -for- the internet.


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## Saga (Jul 26, 2013)

Nintendo is on thin ice as it is
They need to be careful how the do shit with this



Battlechili1 said:


> wot


always with the walls of text
why


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## TrishaCat (Jul 26, 2013)

Saga said:


> always with the walls of text
> why


I have a hard time saying what I've got to say with only a few words. Plus I don't think about how to make it shorter beforehand like I should.
I should fix that.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

you know what's a lot more concerning for me, the character customization. it will totally break the game and any sort of balance in it. i can't think of any way a fighter could have customizible characters (when it comes to movesets) and have any sort of balance. When you can custimize a character which means you can make all their moves amazing.


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## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

I hope -this- doesn't default to the Smash Bros thread.



Alastair Snowpaw said:


> you know what's a lot more concerning for me, the character customization. it will totally break the game and any sort of balance in it. i can't think of any way a fighter could have customizible characters (when it comes to movesets) and have any sort of balance. When you can custimize a character which means you can make all their moves amazing.


Well I'm sure if it's optional, the competitive scene won't use it-- it's not really something that should be worried about too much. I mean, it's like items, yeah?


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## DarrylWolf (Jul 26, 2013)

Well, that's a disappointment and yet, I'll bet the game will be absolutely amazing, even without cutscenes based on gameplay alone and we'll buy millions of copies. And there's also a 3DS version, which will be a long-awaited way to take the game with you. Even for a Nintendo fanboy this does seem rather... baffling.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Well I'm sure if it's optional, the competitive scene won't use it-- it's not really something that should be worried about too much. I mean, it's like items, yeah?



depends though will there be a thing where the character automatically is that way and you can't go back to the basic ones or if they're seperate modes, no idea if it can be turned off though i think it will be. also how many can you do for one character, and how many can be done in total?


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## Cain (Jul 26, 2013)

Nintendo had a ninten-doh! moment.


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 26, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> you know what's a lot more concerning for me, the character customization. it will totally break the game and any sort of balance in it. i can't think of any way a fighter could have customizible characters (when it comes to movesets) and have any sort of balance. When you can custimize a character which means you can make all their moves amazing.



Customizable characters are banned by default in the vast majority if tourneys that feature games that allow you to make a fighter.


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## Zeitzbach (Jul 26, 2013)

Well cut scenes were never the selling point of this game anyway. At least it's still a game, not a movie with ladder and strangling. Those kind of mov-games have no replaying value at all that you pretty much save 50$ watching it on stream/yt instead.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Customizable characters are banned by default in the vast majority if tourneys that feature games that allow you to make a fighter.


not to mention in Brawl you CAN customize your character thru the use of Stickers


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

Verin Asper said:


> not to mention in Brawl you CAN customize your character thru the use of Stickers



Story mode only. Not multiplayer.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 26, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Story mode only. Not multiplayer.


The point being that the next smash may use stickers again(Unless they drop the whole thing about smash of the characters being Trophies/dolls), or just like other fighting games: "your customization is actually you picking the specific colors you want on your chararacters, or extra costumes for them"


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

...
I completely have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

BUT that's off topic.
Even Forbes is talking about this now. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...nt-have-story-mode-for-the-worst-reason-ever/
However, I disagree that it's stupid to watch the cutscenes on Youtube for a few reasons.


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## Stratelier (Jul 26, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> At least it's still a game, not a movie with ladder and strangling. Those kind of mov-games have no replaying value at all that you pretty much save 50$ watching it on stream/yt instead.


You mean like MGS4, right?


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## Willow (Jul 26, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> Cutscenes can tell a good story. Its just that, from what I've been told, if one can tell a story through gameplay, its telling it in the best way possible.(From what I've been told. I don't agree with this idea, necessarily) Melee didn't even have a storyline, really. Just a bunch of random stages fit together that led to Bowser as a final boss. Or, if you played Classic mode, that lead to Master Hand as a final boss. And I replay the single player story on a lot of games. I admit people play Brawl even after beating Subspace Emissary. Even I do that. (I don't own Brawl, I play it with someone who owns a Wii). But at some point, you don't think you'll go back and play the single player and watch all those cutscenes again? Its like a movie really. You watch a movie once, put it down, and later on come back and watch it again.


I don't think a lot of fighting games have much of a plot when it comes to story mode. 



> I have to agree with this somewhat. It sucks when the gameplay is skimped out on.
> I don't care as much about gameplay as a lot of other people do, but even so, good gameplay is important, and companies skimping out on that and just focusing on the story or graphics is a big problem that happens sometimes. (Square Enix, I'm looking at you)
> I want a focus on everything that makes every aspect of the game (gameplay, storyline, music, etc) really good.


So do you not care that much about gameplay or do you?


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jul 26, 2013)

I never liked nintendo, and this just makes me laugh.
It is sad how big game/software devs are sooo out of touch with their target audience.


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## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm their target audience and they've been pretty on the spot recently.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> I'm their target audience and they've been pretty on the spot recently.



Yeah...with the 3DS.


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## Willow (Jul 26, 2013)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> I never liked nintendo, and this just makes me laugh.
> It is sad how big game/software devs are sooo out of touch with their target audience.


Not gonna lie, I really don't care if a fighting game of all things lacks cutscenes. I haven't played Melee and the SSB for awhile but I don't remember either of them having cutscenes.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Not gonna lie, I really don't care if a fighting game of all things lacks cutscenes. I haven't played Melee and the SSB for awhile but I don't remember either of them having cutscenes.



I only cared about the funny ones when I went back to watch them in Brawl (there's a theatre mode).
Some of Brawl's cutscenes were pretty funny like when Link got pissed with Mario or when Mario got the fuck smack laid on him with the Halberd Warship's cannon. But I laugh far more when I'm three stocking my friends and trashing people at Otakon.


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## Stratelier (Jul 26, 2013)

Wanna bet that this really isn't such a big deal after all and it's just getting blown out of proportion by hungry Interneters?


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## Zeitzbach (Jul 26, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> You mean like MGS4, right?



Pretty much

And also stuffs like "The last of us"

Kind of suck they keep spewing out more FPS or "one-time and it's done" kind of game and if it has replayability, it's probably a sandbox puzzle game (Reus ftw) that people just don't play because "LOLPUZZLENOTY 180YOLONOSCOPESWAG2K13XXzXx MATHAFKER"

Tbh, Sakurai should care more about people pirating his game than the cutscene being uploaded though.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Wanna bet that this really isn't such a big deal after all and it's just getting blown out of proportion by hungry Interneters?


i would bet any amount on this.


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## Willow (Jul 26, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I only cared about the funny ones when I went back to watch them in Brawl (there's a theatre mode).
> Some of Brawl's cutscenes were pretty funny like when Link got pissed with Mario or when Mario got the fuck smack laid on him with the Halberd Warship's cannon. But I laugh far more when I'm three stocking my friends and trashing people at Otakon.


I've only played Brawl once but I get what you're saying. 

The only way I can see cutscenes being of any sort of significance to the game is if the campaign/story mode was actually the main point of the game itself. Like in Persona 4 Arena and Dead or Alive to a lesser extent. But in all honesty, story mode in most of these games almost seems secondary and only serve to just get new characters and stages in my opinion.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 26, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> Well cut scenes were never the selling point of this game anyway. At least it's still a game, not a movie with ladder and strangling. Those kind of mov-games have no replaying value at all that you pretty much save 50$ watching it on stream/yt instead.


But they do have replayability. They are replayable in the same way people go watch movies for a second or third time. If you enjoy the story or enjoy the cutscenes, you may eventually come back to the game to watch them again.

I mean, I know what's going to happen and I still rewatch the cutscenes whenever I go to replay Kingdom Hearts or Final Fantasy XII or Solatorobo. Some of these offer to skip scenes and I watch em' anyway, even though I've seen them before and know whats going to happen.


Stratadrake said:


> You mean like MGS4, right?


I love that game a lot. But even I have to admit some of the cutscenes were too long. I mean, some sets of cutscenes were over an hour long and actually gave you the option to save in between cutscenes.
Still, most of the cutscenes were amazing, as was the story.
And even the gameplay was amazing. It had a good balance of action and stealth.
So I don't mind that it was more of a movie.


Willow said:


> I don't think a lot of fighting games have much of a plot when it comes to story mode.
> So do you not care that much about gameplay or do you?


That's true. But that's one of the things that bothers me about fighting games. They are one of my least favorite genres of game, and the lack of a story doesn't help. I've been hoping for a fighting game with a good story, and so far out of what little I've played of fighting games, I find that Smash Bros Brawl had the best(Okay, so maybe it wasn't a very good story and was pretty simple, but the way it was told was very unique. You knew what characters were thinking and what was going on despite the lack of dialogue). Though I hear good things about Persona 4 Arena, and I wouldn't be surprised.
And I don't care that much about gameplay, but good gameplay is still a nice thing to have. Companies shouldn't skimp out on anything (except for maybe graphics. If less money on graphics means good stuff everywhere else, I'm happy)


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Jul 26, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Wanna bet that this really isn't such a big deal after all and it's just getting blown out of proportion by hungry Interneters?



Not really. The bigger issue is that this whole debacle is just another sign of Nintendo being out of touch with reality and showcasing how ridiculous their logic is. 

People making LP's for our games and essentially giving us free advertising? Shut them the fuck down. 

Indies want to make stuff for the WiiU? Ha ha no. 

 People want to show Smash at the world's biggest fighting game tourney and give Smash shit-tons of PR? Not on our watch. 

This is just another one to add to the list. They make good games but god damn they're just ridiculous, and these cases of idiocy are seemingly getting more and more frequent. They can't adapt to a changing market and they're scared shitless of the internet because it's something they can't control.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Not really. The bigger issue is that this whole debacle is just another sign of Nintendo being out of touch with reality and showcasing how ridiculous their logic is.
> 
> People making LP's for our games and essentially giving us free advertising? Shut them the fuck down.
> 
> ...



What gets me is when people say "Well they aren't as bad as M$ or EA." No, but they're still fucking dumb. It's like those idiots who say a homeless man in New York is still more wealthy than a child in Ethiopia. But is he still not poor, hungry, and homeless? Criticizing and looking at the whole picture of Ninty's bullshit is important so they can *improve*. Nintendo can do better and has done better, but for some reason they keep falling into these stupid trends that leave them stuck in the past with both thumbs and their head up the backdoor.


----------



## Clancy (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Not really. The bigger issue is that this whole debacle is just another sign of Nintendo being out of touch with reality and showcasing how ridiculous their logic is.
> 
> People making LP's for our games and essentially giving us free advertising? Shut them the fuck down.
> 
> ...



On top of that they are too goddamn stubborn about region lock. 

God forbid I should play *original* games from other regions


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

Region locking makes me want to lose my shit.


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## Stratelier (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Not really. The bigger issue is that this whole debacle is just another sign of Nintendo being out of touch with reality and showcasing how ridiculous their logic is.


Which reality is this one you are speaking of?


----------



## Clancy (Jul 26, 2013)

so people can't comment on anything and have laugh about it, 'cause that would be blowing things out of proportions.


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 26, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Which reality is this one you are speaking of?



The reality in which they no longer have close to a 90% share of the US console market. 
The reality in which they don't have the ridiculous amounts of power and control they had in the late 80's/early 90's. 
The reality where the internet exists. 
The reality where they actually have seriously dangerous competition.
 The reality where they're not the undisputed king. 

The reality that Nintendo doesn't want to concern itself with.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> The reality in which the internet exists.
> The reality in which they no longer have close to a 90% share of the US console market.
> The reality in which they don't have the ridiculous amounts of power and control they had in the late 80's/early 90's.
> The reality where the internet exists.
> ...



This for days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuries, milennia, lightyears, eons, and eternity.


----------



## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

Have any of you bought a game after watching a let's play of it? I haven't. What's the point when I've already seen the whole game?


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Have any of you bought a game after watching a let's play of it? I haven't. What's the point when I've already seen the whole game?



Of course I have. There's an indescribably huge difference between watching someone play a game, and actually playing it.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> That's true. But that's one of the things that bothers me about fighting games. They are one of my least favorite genres of game, and the lack of a story doesn't help. I've been hoping for a fighting game with a good story
> And I don't care that much about gameplay, but good gameplay is still a nice thing to have. Companies shouldn't skimp out on anything (except for maybe graphics. If less money on graphics means good stuff everywhere else, I'm happy)


well fighting games is one of the genres defined by it's gameplay and is it's main appeal. It's gameplay allows for infinite replay value and a constant drive from the player to improve that doesn't end. the replay someone gets from gameplay compared to story is infinitley more when it comes to fighting games. Part of the story i think you may be overlooking is the characters and their interaction with others, when they have different victory and intro quotes based on who they fight give good characterization. sometimes they even change the quotes from certain moves in games which is also very awesome. 

story wise persona 4 arena is good, along with both aksys series that came before it blazblue and guilty gear. the soul calibur series as a whole has had good single player modes and story. The newest mortal kombat had a good story. Injustice is a good story even if you don't like comic book characters much. Finally skullgirls has good,short,simple stories for each of the characters and each of the characters by themselves are interesting and enjoyable, It also has the best tutorial in any fighting game and could help you find a better appreciation for fighting games once you learn how to actually play them.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Have any of you bought a game after watching a let's play of it? I haven't. What's the point when I've already seen the whole game?



That's why I watch let's plays. For games I wouldn't buy, but have enough interest in to at least see a playthrough of it in my spare time. Pieces of it anyway. I couldn't sit and watch the entire game of something like Metal Gear.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Have any of you bought a game after watching a let's play of it? I haven't. What's the point when I've already seen the whole game?


persona 3, persona 4, ultimate marvel versus capcom 3 (wasn't really lets plays but tourney gameplay of it), and hotline miami are the only ones i can think of off the top of my head that i saw gameplay of before buying.


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## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Of course I have. There's an indescribably huge difference between watching someone play a game, and actually playing it.


And do you think the amount of people who feel that way outweighs the amount who don't? Do you think Nintendo is enforcing its LP policy because it was benefiting from them?


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> And do you think the amount of people who feel that way outweighs the amount who don't? Do you think Nintendo is enforcing its LP policy because it was benefiting from them?


the amount who don't wouldn't have gotten the game anyways. i'm pretty sure the amount of poeple who decide instead of buying a game i'm going to watch others play it is one of the smaller sections of those who watch lps. there are lots of reasons to watch let's plays; to see if the game is any good, funny commentators, see how someone got past a part, see someone fail at it, and lots of others that don't replace buying the game with watching an lp.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> And do you think the amount of people who feel that way outweighs the amount who don't? Do you think Nintendo is enforcing its LP policy because it was benefiting from them?



Do you have anything to back up your own claim?


----------



## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> the amount who don't wouldn't have gotten the game anyways. i'm pretty sure the amount of poeple who decide instead of buying a game i'm going to watch others play it is one of the smaller sections of those who watch lps. there are lots of reasons to watch let's plays; to see if the game is any good, funny commentators, see how someone got past a part, see someone fail at it, and lots of others that don't replace buying the game with watching an lp.


Well then, why would Nintendo do this if it wouldn't benefit from it? Why do you guys think you know more about business than the people who are running the industry?


XoPachi said:


> Do you have anything to back up your own claim?


I haven't claimed anything though. I've been asking questions.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> And do you think the amount of people who feel that way outweighs the amount who don't? Do you think Nintendo is enforcing its LP policy because it was benefiting from them?



Yes and no.

Yes, because most people I've talked too LP's do positively impact their desire to buy the game being LP'd. I don't know if there's a statistic (probably not) but I can't imagine most people not playing a video game because they watched it because that's seriously retard logic. If you dont' believe me ask everyone else who's telling you the same. 

No, because I can't imagine any scenario in which it benefits them. Bad PR from the decision and a lack of internet presence due to said decision do not equate to good marketing. Seriously just look at a game like Rhythm Heaven Fever which became a cult hit in the US large part in due to venues such as Youtube.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Well then, why would Nintendo do this if it wouldn't benefit from it? Why do you guys think you know more about business than the people who are running the industry?
> I haven't claimed anything though. I've been asking questions.



I'm just under the impression that you're trying to make Nintendo seem like they're in trouble. Pardon.

Also, Rob...

_"Why do you guys think you know more about business than the people who are running the industry?"_

That is a god awful cop out. For starters, no one claimed as such, one. 
Two, I suppose we shouldn't criticize EA either? Or that XBox One DRM that got trolled literally to oblivion? Or Sim City's DRM? OR Diablo III's DRM? Or Capcom's slimey DLC practices? Because we don't know more than the people in the industry. See how little sense that makes. It's like if I told someone who doesn't draw they don't deserve to critique FallowFox or Arshes since they're the ones more experienced in art. Or it'll be seen as them "pretending to know more about art than the people in the trade".


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Well then, why would Nintendo do this if it wouldn't benefit from it? Why do you guys think you know more about business than the people who are running the industry?


i'm not saying i know more about business, i'm just saying why poeple watch lps.

here's a question for you, do you think nintendo can make bad choices?


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## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Yes, because most people I've talked too LP's do positively impact their desire to buy the game being LP'd. I don't know if there's a statistic (probably not) but I can't imagine most people not playing a video game because they watched it because that's seriously retard logic. If you dont' believe me ask everyone else who's telling you the same.
> 
> No, because I can't imagine any scenario in which it benefits them. Bad PR from the decision and a lack of internet presence due to said decision do not equate to good marketing. Seriously just look at a game like Rhythm Heaven Fever which became a cult hit in the US large part in due to venues such as Youtube.


You're right about bad PR, and Rhythm Heaven Fever undoubtedly gained popularity due to its spread through the internet; I'd call that hard evidence. 
I think what Nintendo's trying to do now is to control its internet presence. Nintendo's got extensive footage and walkthroughs for New Super Mario Bros. Wii U, and its direction with Smash Bros shows that they want to put their resources into direct advertising, instead of cutscenes. I think that if the backlash is hard enough, Nintendo will back down from the strategy, but for now, it's clear that they're trying to replace third party Let's Plays with their own equivalent. That way they'll get that advertising without some third party benefiting from it.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Indies want to make stuff for the WiiU? Ha ha no.


Actually, for that one, the Wii U is somewhat friendly towards indie developers.
I mean, Japanese indie developers have a problem (http://www.gamespot.com/news/nintendo-not-accepting-japanese-indie-developers-on-wii-u-6412015), but otherwise, Nintendo's being nice to the indie crowd: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Licensed-Wii-U-Indie-Devs-Get-Unity-Pro-Free-57248.html , http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/...i-U2527s-Appeal-with-Indie/1/14/2013/id/47375

EDIT: To add on to this, I actually haven't read any of those articles (I think). I just remembered that Wii U had some appeal for indie developers, did a google search, and found promising links. My internet is slow, so reading the articles isn't something I can easily do.


----------



## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Also, Rob...
> 
> _"Why do you guys think you know more about business than the people who are running the industry?"_
> 
> ...


Well, I'm talking under the assumption that you all like Nintendo and are suggesting ways that it can succeed. The problem is, Nintendo's got way more information to make its decisions-- it's easy to bash them, but really, you don't know what's behind those decisions. 
But you know what, you're right, that was awful for me to say. Because it's all of you who are buying the games, so naturally being vocal about your opinions is important-- it's those opinions that can get Nintendo to change its decisions. 



Alastair Snowpaw said:


> i'm not saying i know more about business, i'm just saying why poeple watch lps.
> 
> here's a question for you, do you think nintendo can make bad choices?


I think their initial marketing for the Wii U was poor, as well as not prioritizing Wii Party U and Wii Fit U to be released before the PS4 or XBox One. I also think the audience Nintendo's aiming for-- somewhere in the middle of casual and hardcore, but not really appealing to either side, isn't as wide as it was for the Wii, which is naturally bad. The audience includes me, so I'm happy, but it's bad for the company's longevity.


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> You're right about bad PR, and Rhythm Heaven Fever undoubtedly gained popularity due to its spread through the internet; I'd call that hard evidence.
> I think what Nintendo's trying to do now is to control its internet presence. Nintendo's got extensive footage and walkthroughs for New Super Mario Bros. Wii U, and its direction with Smash Bros shows that they want to put their resources into direct advertising, instead of cutscenes. I think that if the backlash is hard enough, Nintendo will back down from the strategy, but for now, it's clear that they're trying to replace third party Let's Plays with their own equivalent. That way they'll get that advertising without some third party benefiting from it.



Yes but that's retarded. Companies like Sony control their internet presence via advertising, sponsorships, and other not-so draconian methods. They accept that third-parties (i.e fans, you know your target audience) will always exist and attempt to work said parties into their favor. Nintendo tells these fans to go fuck themselves because they're Nintendo and they can do whatever they want because it's the late 80's again. 

There is zero justification for any of this.


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## SirRob (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Yes but that's retarded. Companies like Sony control their internet presence via advertising, sponsorships, and other not-so draconian methods. They accept that third-parties (i.e fans, you know your target audience) will always exist and attempt to work said parties into their favor. Nintendo tells these fans to go fuck themselves because they're Nintendo and they can do whatever they want because it's the late 80's again.
> 
> There is zero justification for any of this.


Sony's definitely got the best advertising out of the three. It's neat how the PS4's basically telling people to go out and make Let's Plays. I'm interested to see how that turns out; if it works, I can see both Nintendo and Microsoft following suit.


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## TransformerRobot (Jul 26, 2013)

This won't last. Enough consumers will complain and Nintendo will fix their mistake. Mob mentality is powerful.


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## MochiElZorro (Jul 26, 2013)

"Also the next zelda will have no gameplay and no story at all as it will be uploaded to the facetwattertubes." Because fuck Nintendo, Zelda is pretty much the only thing keeping me interested in their dumb asses.


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## Stratelier (Jul 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Of course I have. There's an indescribably huge difference between watching someone play a game, and actually playing it.



But it also depends on *why* you watched the playthroughs in the first place.  Unlike commercial advertisements (which are built to hype up the game and may or may not feature actual in-game footage), playthroughs show you what the game actually *is* to the player.  A playable demo can do that too, but how many times do you find demos of that next AA title you're desperately hyped to get your hands on?


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## TransformerRobot (Jul 27, 2013)

This sounds like it might raise a good point.


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> This sounds like it might raise a good point.



That's one of the dumbest things I've read today.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 27, 2013)

I don't know why he said the SSE was boring outside of the cutscenes, but it's still mostly the same thing I've come to agree on.

Decent choice that's no big deal, bad logic that shows a toxic pattern.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 27, 2013)

Honestly SSE wasn't really that entertaining. Also i remeber hearing lots of complaints about the great maze.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Jul 27, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I don't know why he said the SSE was boring outside of the cutscenes, but it's still mostly the same thing I've come to agree on.
> 
> Decent choice that's no big deal, bad logic that shows a toxic pattern.



Said pattern is only going to backfire in the end.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> This sounds like it might raise a good point.


What? Even the platforming and fighting matches were better in Subspace then in Melee.
The enemies were tougher and traveling was harder in Brawl. The final boss was also extremely tough.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 27, 2013)

It's unfortunate if single player mode is the most memorable part of smash for you....


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 27, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> It's unfortunate if single player mode is the most memorable part of smash for you....



Impact, quit hacking people's FAF accounts. lol

But seriously, I get your point. Chili just seems to be more interested in other aspects though which is fine.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 27, 2013)

SirRob said:


> You're right about bad PR, and Rhythm Heaven Fever undoubtedly gained popularity due to its spread through the internet; I'd call that hard evidence.
> I think what Nintendo's trying to do now is to control its internet presence. Nintendo's got extensive footage and walkthroughs for New Super Mario Bros. Wii U, and its direction with Smash Bros shows that they want to put their resources into direct advertising, instead of cutscenes. I think that if the backlash is hard enough, Nintendo will back down from the strategy, but for now, it's clear that they're trying to replace third party Let's Plays with their own equivalent. That way they'll get that advertising without some third party benefiting from it.



Well in regards to SSB, I don't think Nintendo had any role in the decision to remove cutscenes.  From everything I read this was an executive decision by Sakurai which makes me feel like he's more of a kid in Nintendo's sandbox demanding that you play by his rules. 

But you're right that Nintendo is overly sensitive about its image and being able to control as much as possibly regarding its properties. I mean hell, after the Mario Brothers movie they pretty much but the kibosh on anyone handling their properties. I believe the only reason we got things like Captain N and the Mario/Zelda cartoons is because they were under contract well before that movie came out. 

The Internet brings with it a whole host of other issues. I mean look at how the Internet fed on things like the old Mario/Zelda cartoon, the Zelda CDI, and even things more benign like the "Weegee" meme. I'm sure if Nintendo could have their way these things would not exist. 

But aside from that Nintendo has been losing touch with the audeince that built their company for close to a decade now. This is no more evident then the fiasco of them trying to stop EVO from broadcasting any matches featuring Super Smash Brothers, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they also tried having it removed from the event all together. 

I wouldn't really put much stock into the idea that if something is working for another company that Nintendo will fall in line. They've been marching to the beat of their own drum for a while now, for better and for worse. And the fact that third-party developers are increasingly choosing to remove support or developing for their consoles, it's more clear than ever that Nintendo is pretty much set in their ways and are going to continue producing for the lowest common denominator who will buy a Wii U for the promise of a new Mario or Zelda and MAYBE something else. 

If you're a good little boy.


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## SirRob (Jul 27, 2013)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> If you're a good little boy.


I am a good little boy, aren't I? -wags-


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 27, 2013)

You're a furry. It's self-evident what you are. :V


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 27, 2013)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> the lowest common denominator who will buy a Wii U for the promise of a new Mario or Zelda and MAYBE something else.
> If you're a good little boy.


Don't forget about X.
That game looks amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQrYwYbwlS4


----------



## Vaelarsa (Jul 27, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> It's unfortunate if single player mode is the most memorable part of smash for you....


Some people don't like multiplayer.
Like at all.
Ever.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jul 27, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> Some people don't like multiplayer.
> Like at all.
> Ever.


Co-op is cool, random mashing multiplayer is not.
I loathe it.
I am one of those people


----------



## TransformerRobot (Jul 27, 2013)

I just hope they still have Assist Trophies and Final Smashes in the end.


----------



## SirRob (Jul 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I just hope they still have Assist Trophies and Final Smashes in the end.


Final Smashes are back, they were in the trailer.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 27, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Impact, quit hacking people's FAF accounts. lol
> 
> But seriously, I get your point. Chili just seems to be more interested in other aspects though which is fine.



how could i be impact if i'm not posting anime gifs?



Term_the_Schmuck said:


> This is no more evident then the fiasco of them trying to stop EVO from broadcasting any matches featuring Super Smash Brothers, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they also tried having it removed from the event all together.


I'm going to correct you cause you're wrong. all that they did was ban it from being streamed but later that day that was undone. the first decision wasn't nintendo it was some sort of auto lawyer derp thing.


----------



## DrDingo (Jul 27, 2013)

Looking at the reason given, I think I should have expected this, since Nintendo have been blocking online gaming videos and all that. Cutscenes wouldn't deter gamers, it'd just make the experience more awesome! I really hope the new smash will end up being the epic blockbuster that was promised. Recent news hasn't shown many positives about the game.


----------



## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 27, 2013)

it will be, this is really being blown out of proportion and nothing else is really coming out to be bad.


----------



## Stratelier (Jul 27, 2013)

Seriously, when does the Internet NOT blow things out of proportion?


----------



## Azure (Jul 27, 2013)

ssb, way over rated

the last good one they made was on the game cube

if this kills the franchise, all the better, its time to move on anyway


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 27, 2013)

I dunno about that, SSB is really one of those party games you can have. It's certainly lasted longer than DDR and Guitar Hero.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 28, 2013)

Azure said:


> ssb, way over rated
> 
> the last good one they made was on the game cube
> 
> if this kills the franchise, all the better, its time to move on anyway



You say that like...this franchise has that many games in it. lol


----------



## Runefox (Jul 28, 2013)

Azure said:


> the last good one they made was on the game cube


Meh. N64 Smash is best Smash. Controls are tighter, easier to distinguish what's going on on-screen.

Actually, I take that back, this is best (and first) Smash:

[video=youtube;jJ1lsaaww80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1lsaaww80[/video]


----------



## DrDingo (Jul 28, 2013)

I've just realised. Why would Nintendo care whether the players 'get rewards by playing'? They're a company. Aren't they only doing this for the business anyway? Perhaps this whole thing could be to hide something else. Maybe they don't want to lose sales on the 3ds version when the consumers see that the cutscenes on a handheld are less impressive than they might expect.


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## Runefox (Jul 28, 2013)

No... No, I'm pretty sure everyone knows what to expect from the 3DS. For that matter, if the cutscenes were to be pre-rendered (a distinct likelihood), that would both eliminate the quality problem and inflate the amount of space taken up on the cartridge. Which... Well, at up to 8GB, isn't really a huge concern.

For that matter, 400x240 / 320x240 x 30fps video isn't exactly large... 8.24MB/sec uncompressed. Compressed? ... Probably in the range of around 500kbit/sec (62.5KB/sec) or less, plus audio at around 96kbit/sec. At that rate, a full hour of single screen video would take up a paltry 263.67MB on the up-to 8GB cart.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 28, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I've just realised. Why would Nintendo care whether the players 'get rewards by playing'? They're a company. Aren't they only doing this for the business anyway? Perhaps this whole thing could be to hide something else. Maybe they don't want to lose sales on the 3ds version when the consumers see that the cutscenes on a handheld are less impressive than they might expect.


Well, because they aren't in it for just money. Or at least some of the workers aren't. I think Miyamoto or whoever said he didn't want cutscenes because of this because they care about the game itself.


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## Stratelier (Jul 28, 2013)

A story mode like SSE is a huge freakin' cinematic production in and of itself.  So from the creator/owner's perspective to see people watching it via free YouTube videos and Internet really is something of a letdown _not unlike_ watching entire movies on YouTube instead of DVD.

Even more so from the business perspective.


----------



## QT Melon (Jul 28, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> A story mode like SSE is a huge freakin' cinematic production in and of itself.  So from the creator/owner's perspective to see people watching it via free YouTube videos and Internet really is something of a letdown _not unlike_ watching entire movies on YouTube instead of DVD.
> 
> Even more so from the business perspective.



Hello Stratadrake,

I am unsure if I agree with this sentiment. I understand from an intellectual property perspective that it is a problem, but a movie is the experience. Watching games is not the same as playing them. I believe if Nintendo is confident in their product they would agree - but it seems that one person is having the issue in their department, and not the entire branch.

I had seen Journey through Youtube it was of rather good quality since Youtube allows HD videos. I watched the entire game since I did not have a PS3 at the time. It made me remember to buy this game when I did eventually come in possession of a PS3. I have now completed the game several times, and still continue to play it despite earning all the trophies (which honestly don't matter to me so much). This game is only a couple hours long and *playing it* is completely different from watching it. It has nothing to do with the quality of the recording, but the immersion of gameplay. 

Had I not seen the entire gameplay, I probably would have not purchased the game because all you would hear about is hype and cutscenes put into a commercial. While Journey is just one example. There are games I've watched playthroughs and cutscenes instead of reading about reviews that have generated interest in purchasing games, when I wouldn't have otherwise.

I also understand that you may not want to see cutscenes or a playthrough because you are already excited for a game and don't want it to be spoiled. I think it is just different for everyone, but there is definitely a different connection between watching games and playing them. I do not feel eliminating cutscenes is helpful to promote the game. I feel that people sharing game experiences even with cutscenes is what helps promote those games further.


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## TransformerRobot (Jul 28, 2013)

I still think it's gonna lead to a PR disaster. Fanboys are probably clawing and snarling at Nintendo's doors already (Though that wouldn't be anything new. You know how fanboys are).


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## Stratelier (Jul 28, 2013)

QT Melon said:


> ...I understand from an intellectual property perspective that it is a problem, but a movie _is_ the experience. Watching games is not the same as playing them.



Yeah, that is true too.  Part of the problem is that you can't predict whether watching something via unofficial means is a precedent to purchasing it (good), pirating it (bad), or neither at all.

You know the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series? That's one example of a series I was interested in playing, but saw that the game reviews were notably mixed, then looked up some (non spoiling) playthroughs on YouTube to see what the game looks like firsthand (okay, vicarious firsthand but still). Did those videos do any harm _here?_  Not at all.

A different example:  I think I already mentioned FF7.  I was spoiled about Aeris's death via the Internet, so it failed to have any dramatic impact on me.  (Shadow's implied death in FF6, on the other hand ... moreso when I learned -- also via the Internet -- that you could have avoided it.)

There's also the Touhou series.  I do like some occasional bullet hell here and there (I totally loved _Castle Shikigami 2_ for this reason), but I've watched complete playthroughs for first 7 Touhou games, and that sort of satisfies my craving for it.  I'm actually _not_ inclined to go out and actually purchase one right now, partly because I've seen everything they have to offer (including the bonus levels).


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 29, 2013)

Wow, What a horrible thread.



Alastair Snowpaw said:


> how could i be impact if i'm not posting anime gifs?


B-but AS, Gundam isn't anime.


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 29, 2013)

Funny... everyone complained about Smash Bros having cutscenes because they "didn't give a shit" and only wanted to disable all the items, pick only Fox, and play on Final Destination. 

Now that the cutscenes are gone, you're complaining about those? -.-; Where were you fans in 2008, when it could have used your support?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 29, 2013)

...
How many times does this need to be said?
 The majority is not upset about the cutscenes being removed. It's the logic behind it that shows a toxic trend in Nintendo's decisions lately.
And who the Hell picks only Fox or FD? o-O

Never heard of that.


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## Stratelier (Jul 29, 2013)

Digitalpotato said:


> Funny... everyone complained about Smash Bros having cutscenes because they "didn't give a shit" and only wanted to disable all the items, pick only Fox, and play on Final Destination.


At least in Brawl you can get a nice themed match going between Fox, Falco, and Wolf.  I've played a lot of no-items matches at a local game store.  Last time we decided to turn on an occasional Pitfall here and there just for kicks.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 29, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> At least in Brawl you can get a nice themed match going between Fox, Falco, and Wolf.  I've played a lot of no-items matches at a local game store.  Last time we decided to turn on an occasional Pitfall here and there just for kicks.



it's a melee joke since fox is the best character in that.
fox is only mid tier in brawl and metaknight is the best one.
also the people i find most strict about game sets are the ones who refuse to play anything but items on and random stages. While players who tend to mostly play without items and on specific stages are more willing to do sillery things. This is from experince, also matches with items are less fun to me cause they're a lot less intense and have so many more expliots that just get boring after a while.


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> How many times does this need to be said?


FaF is _that_ slow.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 29, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> FaF is _that_ slow.



Apparently.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 29, 2013)

Digitalpotato said:


> Funny... everyone complained about Smash Bros having cutscenes because they "didn't give a shit" and only wanted to disable all the items, pick only Fox, and play on Final Destination.
> 
> Now that the cutscenes are gone, you're complaining about those? -.-; Where were you fans in 2008, when it could have used your support?



It's more of Nintendo's fear of Internet than whether or not a cutscene is included in the game. If they're worried about sales, they can take a page from what they said to XboxOne about "being worried about used games" Make better games. If your game is good, whether or not you see it online isn't going to deter you from buying it. You're more likely to have people investing in the game. 

If you are worried about it backfiring, then your game needs work. If your game is shitty and enough marks will buy it before it's too late.

I'm fully aware of the prior conversation but seriously one of the cheapest forms of advertising is through youtube and social viral marketing.


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## SirRob (Jul 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And who the Hell picks only Fox or FD? o-O


I pick only Fox!! Because he's the hottest character!


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 29, 2013)

SirRob said:


> I pick only Fox!! Because he's the hottest character!


lucario is much more sexy :v


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## PastryOfApathy (Jul 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And who the Hell picks only Fox or FD? o-O
> 
> Never heard of that.



Well you've clearly never been introduced to the wonderful world of competitive Melee.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 29, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Well you've clearly never been introduced to the wonderful world of competitive Melee.



Because Melee is the only Smash Bros. lol


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 29, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Well you've clearly never been introduced to the wonderful world of competitive Melee.


There are a lot of sucky things about the meele community but game imbalance isn't really in the fourfront. also the only poeple who want others to play only one way are the ones who want on items and all stages random. tourney players are a lot more flexible with the way to play, unless you're in the tourney with set rules that you paid to enter.


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## Runefox (Jul 29, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Well you've clearly never been introduced to the wonderful world of competitive Melee.


I love that a casual game has been made competitive. I've always thought that this was just one step away on the ludicrous meter from competitive WarioWare.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I love that a casual game has been made competitive. I've always thought that this was just one step away on the ludicrous meter from competitive WarioWare.


most any game can be made competitive even single player ones with speed runs. The good thing about competition is it brings pretty much infinite reply-ability which is way more fun. It's a drive that gives intrinsic rewards that are unique and addicting.

The real comedy is how hard nintendo tries to ignore this sect of players and refuse their existence.

also any game can be casual and any game can be competitive, it's just how hard you try or want to try.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 29, 2013)

Why is it a problem that people play a game competitively?
There are people who play competitive games casually. No one complains.


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I love that a casual game has been made competitive. I've always thought that this was just one step away on the ludicrous meter from competitive WarioWare.


Oh shit, That's 10/10 trolling right here.


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## Runefox (Jul 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Why is it a problem that people play a game competitively?
> There are people who play competitive games casually. No one complains.



I'm actually being facetious, but if we talk about people who throw out 98% of the game because it's "unbalanced" and argue tirelessly about it, it's a different story.

On that note, why *isn't* WarioWare played competitively? It's all about memorization, skill and timing.


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## SirRob (Jul 29, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> lucario is much more sexy :v


Oh please, he leaves _nothing_ to the imagination!


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 29, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Oh please, he leaves _nothing_ to the imagination!



that's part of the attraction



Runefox said:


> I'm actually being facetious, but if we talk about people who throw out 98% of the game because it's "unbalanced" and argue tirelessly about it, it's a different story.
> 
> On that note, why *isn't* WarioWare played competitively? It's all about memorization, skill and timing.


there's a speed run for it so someone tried to, though it doesn't have a community.


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## Stratelier (Jul 29, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Oh please, [Lucario] leaves _nothing_ to the imagination!


Sure you're not thinking about Ammy?  Sure, she keeps her tail end covered most of the time, but there is one moment where those goods land right in front of the camera....

At least Brawl isn't FA.  Leave it to the fandom to draw anatomically correct Pokemon in the worst ways possible....


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## SirRob (Jul 30, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Sure you're not thinking about Ammy?  Sure, she keeps her tail end covered most of the time, but there is one moment where those goods land right in front of the camera....
> 
> At least Brawl isn't FA.  Leave it to the fandom to draw anatomically correct Pokemon in the worst ways possible....


Ammy leaves plenty to the imagination-- that's not even her body!


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## Judge Spear (Jul 30, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Leave it to the fandom to draw anatomically correct Pokemon in the worst ways possible....



Don't test me, bird.


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## Stratelier (Jul 30, 2013)

This old bird doesn't get intimidated by _anything_.



SirRob said:


> Ammy leaves plenty to the imagination-- that's not even her body!


Then what about Shiranui?  That WAS her original body, far as we know.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 30, 2013)

btw who liked the great maze in the subspace emissary?


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## Verin Asper (Jul 30, 2013)

I will say this
Smash Bros still have nothing on Power Stone


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 30, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Then what about Shiranui?  That WAS her original body, far as we know.


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## Stratelier (Jul 30, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> btw who liked the great maze in the subspace emissary?


I know I did.  It was freakin' HUGE.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 31, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


>



(OwO )
( OwO)
(OwO )
( OwO)


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## Stratelier (Jul 31, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/fvvf/2mpxwgk_zps1b58dc24.gif


What does that have to do with anything?


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## SirRob (Jul 31, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> What does that have to do with anything?


Her name's Mai Shiranui.


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 31, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> What does that have to do with anything?


i don't think any of the anime he posts is ever relevant.


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 31, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> i don't think any of the anime he posts is ever relevant.


When did KoF13 became an animu?


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 31, 2013)

i always considered it an anime version of street fighter.


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 31, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> i always considered it an anime version of street fighter.


When did Street Fighter had 3 on 3 fights?


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## Alastair Snowpaw (Jul 31, 2013)

they play very similar regardless of how many poeple you choose, also you can choose 1v1 in Kof


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## Imperial Impact (Jul 31, 2013)

Alastair Snowpaw said:


> they play very similar regardless of how many poeple you choose.


That's almost every fighter.


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## Stratelier (Jul 31, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> When did KoF13 became an animu?


Animoo?


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## SirRob (Jul 31, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Animoo?


Animoo.


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## Stratelier (Jul 31, 2013)

Yeah, much better.  I think that should be keyed in as an autocensor.


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## SirRob (Jul 31, 2013)

I'd pay to have 'furry' censored.


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## Stratelier (Jul 31, 2013)

It's the new F-word!

"Is anyone else here a f**** artist?"

lol


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## Imperial Impact (Aug 1, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Animoo?


It's like you want me to write a story a about you.


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