# Osama Bin Laden is Dead



## Alstor (May 1, 2011)

According to a US official, Osama Bin Laden, the most wanted terrorist in the world, has been killed. The U.S. has the body.

Stream if you aren't watching your local channels right now. 
http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

If this is true, then this should be the biggest al-Qaeda news since the London bombings.


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## Larry (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Dammit, three minutes late.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/98334-Rave-Osama-Bin-Laden-Confirmed-Dead?goto=newpost


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## Aden (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Oh snap
I did not see that coming


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## Smart_Cookie (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing" or as a negative somehow. :V


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## ShadowEon (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

I can't say I saw that coming, but if it really is true I hope this gets everyone closer to ending the wars over there. 

*PS- Might wanna fix the title if you want people to take this thread seriously. >_>


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## Term_the_Schmuck (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

So he's taking fucking forever for this damn press conference.

This shit is huge if it's true.



Mojotech said:


> Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing" or as a negative somehow. :V



Where's CS when you need him?  :V


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## Azure (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

HURRY UP GODDAMNIT! SHOW ME PICTURES OF THE BODY!!


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## Larry (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

You win, Alstor.


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## Alstor (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



ShadowEon said:


> *PS- Might wanna fix the title if you want people to take this thread seriously. >_>


 Oh shit.

Aden, can you change it to "Osama"?


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## Ames (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Hell,

It's about time.


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## Machine (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Two minutes before this thread popped up, my mom and dad were both going, "Hey guys! Osama bin Laden is dead!"

Fast news is fast!


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## Sai_Wolf (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Arghblargh. It says 10:30 ET, but it's 11:30 ET. >:[


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Holy crap!!!! Watching NBC right now.


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## Rouz (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Moth said:


> Two minutes before this thread popped up, my mom and dad were both going, "Hey guys! Osama bin Laden is dead!"
> 
> Fast news is fast!




I was watching baseball and they said it. I'm still waiting for Obama's press conference.

This is huge news.


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## Aetius (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

*AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!*


FUCK YEAH!


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## Fay V (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

I was talking to my dad earlier about how it felt weird that it had been a decade since 9/11

O.O I am psychic. 

No really though, this is huge news. I'm just annoyed how people keep wanting to mention that it happened during the Obama administration like that matters. It's not like he got there and said "look harder guys" and the military was all "oooh okay" meh politics.


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## Xipoid (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Alstor said:


> Oh shit.
> 
> Aden, can you change it to "Osama"?



Is there something you want to tell us, Alstor?


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## Rouz (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Fay V said:


> I was talking to my dad earlier about how it felt weird that it had been a decade since 9/11
> 
> O.O I am psychic.
> 
> No really though, this is huge news. I'm just annoyed how people keep wanting to mention that it happened during the Obama administration like that matters. It's not like he got there and said "look harder guys" and the military was all "oooh okay" meh politics.



People are still look going to favorable at Obama for this.


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## Oopslol (May 1, 2011)

I'm dancing in the streets as we speak

I'm typing this with telepathic powers


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## Darkwing (May 1, 2011)

Yeah! The bastard is finally dead! 

I wonder how/who killed him?


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## CannonFodder (May 1, 2011)

AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

I was surprised they found his body.


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## Jashwa (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Holy fuck. I'm in disbelief.


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## Kommodore (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

I really did not think they would get him after all this time, but it is good to see I was wrong. Bout time. 



Mojotech said:


> Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing"


 
Pretty sure it was more or less the military just doing its job on this one. He might have gave the OK though, in which case, good on him.


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## Recel (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Fay V said:


> O.O I am psychic.


I told you that once, didnt I? 



Fay V said:


> No really though, this is huge news. I'm just annoyed how people keep wanting to mention that it happened during the Obama administration like that matters. It's not like he got there and said "look harder guys" and the military was all "oooh okay" meh politics.


 
Well, hope its realy true.

Edit: Wow, post are realy rolling here.


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## Rouz (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Jashwa said:


> Holy fuck. I'm in disbelief.



It feels surreal just because it's almost exactly a decade later.


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## dinosaurdammit (May 1, 2011)

I wish I had cable. Awww ffffffffff

Wargarblegarblegarble /rage


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## Cam (May 1, 2011)

They should put his body underneath a giant porta potty. Then open it for public use on the busiest intersection of New York City


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## Morgoth (May 1, 2011)

He was just a figurehead at this point, but it _might_ cause moral drop in Al-Qaeda(it could also have the reverse effect and cause more violence) so this is pretty great news, and whoever killed him is  probably stoked about the money they will get (do you still get the money if you were in the military  and killed him?).


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## Machine (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rouz said:


> I was watching baseball and they said it. I'm still waiting for Obama's press conference.
> 
> This is huge news.


It is. I'm waiting for his conference to start with a bowl of popcorn at my side.


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## crustone (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Azure said:


> HURRY UP GODDAMNIT! SHOW ME PICTURES OF THE BODY!!


 
They better put his body on public display.


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## Jashwa (May 1, 2011)

Rouz said:


> It feels surreal just because it's almost exactly a decade later.


 Yeah. 


Morgoth said:


> He was just a figurehead at this point, but whoever killed him is  probably stoked (do you still get the money if you were in the military  and killed him?).


 No. I highly doubt that. That would be completely counter-intuitive to the whole order aspect of the military.


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## Aetius (May 1, 2011)

Round 2! Gadaffi!


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## Alstor (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Xipoid said:


> Is there something you want to tell us, Alstor?


 You're a good mod, too.

And I like Obama much better. >:[


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## Azure (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



crustone said:


> They better put his body on public display.


 Yeah. They should mummify him, waterproof him, and hang him from the top of the Washington Monument.


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## Machine (May 1, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Azure said:


> Yeah. They should mummify him, waterproof him, and hang him from the top of the Washington Monument.


"They should hang him above Ground Zero." -My sister. Bless her soul.


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## ArielMT (May 1, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I wish I had cable. Awww ffffffffff
> 
> Wargarblegarblegarble /rage


 
There are probably some decent news channels online streaming.


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## ArielMT (May 1, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I wish I had cable. Awww ffffffffff
> 
> Wargarblegarblegarble /rage


 
There are probably some decent news channels online streaming.


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 1, 2011)

Darkwing said:


> I wonder how/who killed him?


 
The U.S military.

And I bet whoever, if it was just one guy and not an entire platoon shooting at him, will be getting a metal for it.


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## Lobar (May 1, 2011)

Inb4 Fox News tells us why Dubya should get all the credit for this.


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## Aetius (May 1, 2011)

"Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces in a *mansion outside the  Pakistani capital of Islamabad* along with other family members, senior  U.S. official tells CNN."


What the fuck Pakistan?


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## Rouz (May 1, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> There are probably some decent news channels online streaming.



http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-delivers-statement 

here and also CNN and stuff.


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## Azure (May 1, 2011)

You know what I can do without though, that'll probably happen? The inevitable 9/11 bawwwwfest renewal. Also, apparently ground forces working in tandem with predator drones bagged his ass in Pakistan. Where I said he was like, 10 years ago. Can't wait for the inevitable jurisdictional dickery to ensue.


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## Kommodore (May 1, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> What the fuck Pakistan?


 
What? The Pakistanis do not harbor terrorists. They are all buddy-buddy with the west and stuff.


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## Hakkuze (May 1, 2011)

Bang bang!  I bet it was either Navy SEALS, Green Berets, or Marine Force Recon.


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## Darkwing (May 1, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> The U.S military.
> 
> And I bet whoever, if it was just one guy and not an entire platoon shooting at him, will be getting a metal for it.


 
That and a fuckton of money. The FBI promised a whooping 25 million dollar reward for the guy.


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## Grey Wolverine (May 1, 2011)

Morgoth said:


> (do you still get the money if you were in the military  and killed him?).


 
No I was informed of that a few weeks ago when I told my friend David (He's going into the Marines soon) about the bounty on Bin-Laden's head. his father said it was against the rules of war or some shit to collect bounties on enemy combatants. So basically unless the man was a PMC, he didn't get the money.


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## Aetius (May 1, 2011)

Kommodore said:


> What? The Pakistanis do not harbor terrorists. They are all buddy-buddy with the west and stuff.


 
Pakistani ISI loves him.


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## Andreus (May 1, 2011)




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## RedSavage (May 1, 2011)

This is just wonderful.

Tis a special place for you in hell, Osama. Instead of 72 virgins you will have 72 Virginians from the original 13 colonies ready to punch you in the face, one by one.


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## dinosaurdammit (May 1, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> There are probably some decent news channels online streaming.



we gave up cable and internet when our daughter was born. We plan on getting it back when prices go down. There are more important things than TV and internet at the moment. I have seen some articles through my phone which is how I access the forums now.

Can't watch anything though


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## Azure (May 1, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> This is just wonderful.
> 
> Tis a special place for you in hell, Osama. Instead of 72 virgins you will have 72 Virginians from the original 13 colonies ready to punch you in the face, one by one.


 Like this?


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## Sai_Wolf (May 1, 2011)

UGH START. D: startyoudamnlivefeed


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## Zaraphayx (May 1, 2011)

Inb4 we declare war on Pakistan for 'harboring terrorists' :V.


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## Commiecomrade (May 1, 2011)

I knew it. Right when I heard the news I knew this thread would be in the most recently posted in the Off Topic section.

It's too bad he couldn't have been let to the whim of the sane people in that country like Mussolini.


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## Morgoth (May 1, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> This is just wonderful.
> 
> Tis a  special place for you in hell, Osama. Instead of 72 virgins you will  have 72 Virginians from the original 13 colonies ready to punch you in  the face, one by one.


 
Or maybe this?


Just in case someone misinterprets this, he's being trolled in hell.


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## Tissemand (May 1, 2011)

It's all thanks to Bush, our best president on the war on terror.


Spoiler: Hehe


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (May 1, 2011)

Good. But I'd feel better if Zawahiri or Awlaki was dead.


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## Aden (May 1, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> my phone which is how I access the forums now


 
aw, that's not right
we'll have to set up a temporary crash space for you guys once we get the house and the renovations are done


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## Sai_Wolf (May 1, 2011)

Speech just concluded.

TLDR: Obama took full credit and rightfully so. He deployed a mission which killed Osama.


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## RedSavage (May 1, 2011)

Azure said:


> Like this?


 
I saw that just the other day for the first time. 

As for a more direct response, fuck yes.


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## Azure (May 1, 2011)

Shit, kidnappin niggas hardcore.


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 1, 2011)

NBC is saying it was a team of Navy Seals that killed Bin Laden. "He (Osama) was shot at least once in the head." NBC


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## Ames (May 1, 2011)

He was gunned down?

I guess he isn't coming over here in a bucket, then.


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## Human (May 1, 2011)

AMURICA!
FERK YEAH!


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## Term_the_Schmuck (May 1, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> NBC is saying it was a team of Navy Seals that killed Bin Laden. "He (Osama) was shot at least once in the head." NBC


 
I assume it looked like this:

[yt]G3MfiL0Sjsk[/yt]


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 1, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> Speech just concluded.
> 
> TLDR: Obama took full credit and rightfully so. He deployed a mission which killed Osama.


 
Cause JSOC (Joint Special Operations Command) Hasn't been doing anything for the last 10 years...
One man cannot take credit for this.


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## RedSavage (May 1, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> NBC is saying it was a team of Navy Seals that killed Bin Laden. "He (Osama) was shot at least once in the head." NBC


 
And probably spit on, pissed on, another gun shot for the double tap, a few kicks, and shat on for good measure.


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## Deo (May 1, 2011)

I'm not going to jump on the wagon of "YEAH HE'S DEAD, WOO HOO!". I don't celebrate anyone's death, nor do I find happiness in his death. To be honest it would have been better for us if he was captured alive and fully interrogated for information, though we may have done that (I'm not clear on the circumstances of his death, if we got information out of him, and no I do not mean torture as a means of interrogation). I am not glad, or happy over this man's death, but I am feeling a small sense of relief that perhaps there is a lessened threat of violence and death in the world. Perhaps. Not that the death of an old, ailing, _past leader_ of Al Qaida has the same meaning it did when Osama Bin Laden was actually running the show. We need the current leaders of Al Qaida, not the leaders from ten years ago killed and their deaths celebrated out of some perverse revenge.


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 1, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm not going to ump on the wagon of "YEAH HE'S DEAD, WOO HOO!". I don't celebrate anyone's death, nor do I find happiness in his death. To be honest it would have been better for us if he was captured alive and fully interrogated for information (and no I do not mean torture). I am not glad, or happy over this man's death, but I am feeling a small sense of relief. Not that the death of an old, ailing, past leader of Al Qaida has the same meaning it did when Osama Bin Laden was actually running the show. We need the current leaders of Al Qaida, not the leaders from ten years ago killed and their deaths celebrated out of some perverse revenge.


 
Do you really think that man was going to be captured alive Deo? Seriously? 

There was a firefight in the compound where Osama was at. It was always going to go down that way.

Edit: And, the U.S military has killed many, and I mean many of Al Qaeda's leaders.


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## M. LeRenard (May 1, 2011)

All I can really say at this point is....
Holy shit.


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## RedSavage (May 1, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm not going to ump on the wagon of "YEAH HE'S DEAD, WOO HOO!". I don't celebrate anyone's death, nor do I find happiness in his death. To be honest it would have been better for us if he was captured alive and fully interrogated for information (and no I do not mean torture). I am not glad, or happy over this man's death, but I am feeling a small sense of relief. Not that the death of an old, ailing, past leader of Al Qaida has the same meaning it did when Osama Bin Laden was actually running the show. We need the current leaders of Al Qaida, not the leaders from ten years ago killed and their deaths celebrated out of some perverse revenge.


 
I would agree with this, but he gloated over the deaths of nearly 3,000 people from all nationality, race, and religion. So I'll come right out and say I'm biased on this.


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## Icky (May 1, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm not going to ump on the wagon of "YEAH HE'S DEAD, WOO HOO!". I don't celebrate anyone's death, nor do I find happiness in his death. To be honest it would have been better for us if he was captured alive and fully interrogated for information (and no I do not mean torture). I am not glad, or happy over this man's death, but I am feeling a small sense of relief. Not that the death of an old, ailing, past leader of Al Qaida has the same meaning it did when Osama Bin Laden was actually running the show. We need the current leaders of Al Qaida, not the leaders from ten years ago killed and their deaths celebrated out of some perverse revenge.


 
[this] 

I mean, I guess it's cool that we actually did what we've been trying to for all these years, but was he actually doing anything? Al Queda's been pretty quiet.


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## Azure (May 1, 2011)

Shit, alive? It'd be worse. They'd try to free him. Not only would we not get jack shit out of him without "motivation", there'd be fucking wackos in the street with the latest in street fashion, C-4, nails, and broken glass. I'll take him dead, no drama, high profile assholes never do anybody good alive.

EDIT- Oh, I hope they sawed his head off. SHITSTORM!


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## Aden (May 1, 2011)

I just saw some streaming footage of people partying about his death in front of the White House

normally that would strike me as pretty horrible, but I can make an exception. Just this once.


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## Taralack (May 1, 2011)

A few choice tweets on this topic:

"So how did the CIA find him? Through his leaked PSN account info?"
"Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden was designed by Square Enix, and thus has at least 3 more forms we need to destroy."
"And, while we're all caught up in the Osama Thrill, let's not forget that 13 years ago today, Lord Voldemort was killed."
"You know the Call of Duty guys are already working on putting this mission in the next game."


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## greg-the-fox (May 2, 2011)

I feel a mixture of disbelief that it even happened, relief, and fear that a newly enraged Al Qaeda will be more likely to try to attack us again


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## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

Toraneko said:


> A few choice tweets on this topic:
> 
> "So how did the CIA find him? Through his leaked PSN account info?"
> "Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden was designed by Square Enix, and thus has at least 3 more forms we need to destroy."
> ...


 Lmfao XD


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> I just saw some streaming footage of people partying about his death in front of the White House
> 
> normally that would strike me as pretty horrible, but I can make an exception. Just this once.


 No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death. 

And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.


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## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

So conservatives have already found their talking point-

"This'll only encourage further attacks!".

This is why america can't have nice things.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death.
> 
> And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.


 
B-b-b-but _it's okay_ when it's _our_ barbarism!  Besides Muslims worship an angry desert god and don't accept Jesus as their Lord & Savior so they're a bunch of fucking [redacted] anyway.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death.
> 
> And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.


Why is it wrong? Morality is subjective, blah blah blah, I can see the celebration of the death of good or otherwise neutral people as being horrible. But this fellow has been bringing nothing but bloodshed, aggression, and inhumanity wherever he's tred, and he's inspired, equipped, and mentored countless others. There is no shame in celebrating this. Petty it may be, it's all most folks got.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> B-b-b-but _it's okay_ when it's _our_ barbarism!  Besides Muslims worship an angry desert god and don't accept Jesus as their Lord & Savior so they're a bunch of fucking [redacted] anyway.


 This is exactly the mentality that we need to purge. 9/11 was in the Islamic world viewed as revenge for the Persian Gulf War and the deaths of thousands of civilians. To which we retaliated by revenging ourselves and invading Iraq/Iran and killing more people. To which they killed more of us in revenge. To which we killed more of them. To which it never ends. Revenge brings nothing but bitter death.


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## Hir (May 2, 2011)

gosh this thread is popular :]


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## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death.
> 
> And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.


 
I completely understand your sentiment, and in most cases I'd agree with you, but I can't help but feel that bin Laden hit the Hitler-tier of evil where all bets are off.


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## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man?


 
I certainly wouldn't be there partying with them if I had the option, but I'm still going to make an exception and say that I can't blame them. Sure they're stupid as hell for partying and chanting "USA! USA!" because we killed someone, and it reeks of a primitive, warlike society. But it's their first reaction after hearing the news of the death of a man who is responsible for killing thousands of their countrymen, and I'm not going to judge them for now.

Now if people are still partying in the streets a day later? Let the judging begin.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> This is exactly the mentality that we need to purge. 9/11 was in the Islamic world viewed as revenge for the Persian Gulf War and the deaths of thousands of civilians. To which we retaliated by revenging ourselves and invading Iraq/Iran and killing more people. To which they killed more of us in revenge. To which we killed more of them. To which it never ends. Revenge brings nothing but bitter death.


 It's a fair bit deeper than this. In fact, it's way fucking deeper. In fact, the Cold War never ended.


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## FF_CCSa1F (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death.
> 
> And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.


 
A simple like does not suffice; the celebration of the death of one's fellow man is barbaric and disgusting. I don't understand how one can honestly consider oneself entitled to do so, especially since it in this case is the death of another man who celebrated the death of others.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Why is it wrong? Morality is subjective, blah blah blah, I can see the celebration of the death of good or otherwise neutral people as being horrible. But this fellow has been bringing nothing but bloodshed, aggression, and inhumanity wherever he's tred, and he's inspired, equipped, and mentored countless others. There is no shame in celebrating this. Petty it may be, it's all most folks got.


 I'm a believer in moral objectivism, that some actions are right and wrong without dependency on relative facts, issues, or context. Celebrating a death is one of those objective moral facts that is inherently wrong. No exceptions. It's petty, immoral, and downright wrong. Yes, his actions were terrible, but in no way do his actions justify us enjoying another human being's painful demise.

Also there are now people partying outside my dorm shouting "AMERICA" and playing vuvuzelas and lighting fireworks. This celebration is sickening.



Azure said:


> It's a fair bit deeper than this. In fact, it's way  fucking deeper. In fact, the Cold War never ended.


 It is  deeper, but I'm only pointing out the very obvious and very basic  bullshit of revenge and how it brings nothing but more suffering unto  everyone. Analyze the pleasure you derive from a man's death. Delight in it. Do go on. Do it.

Also I'm sorry I interrupted your circlejerk of joy over a man being shot in the head. Do continue with your relishing of revenge and more blood shed. Go ahead. Soak it in. Enjoy it. Picture his family. Laugh some more. Do continue taking great delight in the continued suffering and murder of humanity.


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## Littlerock (May 2, 2011)

Good Lord, I'm surprised he didn't die before this on his own. Didn't he have kidney failure of someshit?
And damn, whatever happened to 'capture, not kill'?


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## Gr8fulFox (May 2, 2011)

In case you guys haven't heard, this is the soldier that killed Osama.


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death.
> 
> And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.


 
Think Deo, please. U.S special forces in a not so friendly environment, tasked to take a compound with a highly valued target in it. A firefight censuses. Target is killed. Special forces grab body and leave.

Now, if they had tried to take him alive, now, one the target has to be subdued. Knowing Osama I highly doubt he would be subdued easily. And, taking him alive would be much harder. Because now, in the middle of a firefight, with an uncooperative target, the soldiers now have to keep him alive as well as themselves making them easier targets.

For safety reasons alone, it was easier and better to kill Osama and collect the body, rather than try and take him alive.

Everyone knew that man was not going to be captured. 

And, what would be the purpose for us interrogating him? Haven't you seen that Osama was far out of touch with his own group (He was weeks behind on the rioting in the middle east.), which now is splintered into smaller groups?

Edit: So I guess it was wrong for all those people to celebrate the fact that Hitler was dead. I guess it was wrong for the celebration of VE or VJ Day. Because, after all, that was celebrating the fact the the U.S military defeated another country.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm a believer in moral objectivism, that some actions are right and wrong without dependency on relative facts, issues, or context. Celebrating a death is one of those objective moral facts that is inherently wrong. No exceptions. It's petty, immoral, and downright wrong. Yes, his actions were terrible, but in no way do his actions justify us enjoying another human being's painful demise.
> 
> Also there are now people partying outside my dorm shouting "AMERICA" and playing vuvuzelas and lighting fireworks. This celebration is sickening.


 Nothing in inherent, or absolute. Though to be truthful, I turned off the TV as soon as they slapped up the Young Republican Bros all screaming USA USA USA USA, like they've ever been pained by any of this at all. I don't believe that death is a thing to be celebrated either, but I think that maybe sometimes things that aren't right can be just as emotionally and spiritually healthy as things that are.



Deo said:


> It is  deeper, but I'm only pointing out the very obvious and very basic  bullshit of revenge and how it brings nothing but more suffering unto  everyone. Analyze the pleasure you derive from a man's death. Delight in it. Do go on. Do it.
> 
> Also I'm sorry I interrupted your circlejerk of joy over a man being shot in the head. Do continue with your relishing of revenge and more blood shed. Go ahead. Soak it in. Enjoy it. Picture his family. Laugh some more. Do continue taking great delight in the continued suffering and murder of humanity.


His family is rid of him. Though they did kill a son apparently. And pleasure isn't a word I'd use for the feeling I got, but then again, it depends in the manner on which you are pleased. I'm not circlejerking, I just think that there are a lot of people who feel a little bit vindicated, especially people in the armed forces, victims of 9/11, and countless thousand Muslims who lived in fear of people he inspired to come to their homes and communities and blow people up in the street.


----------



## The_Unknowin (May 2, 2011)

Hell Yeah!!! I'm so glad he's dead. I'm not an American but this is soooo relieving to hear this however I wonder what will happen? will the terrorists retaliate?


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Think Deo, please. U.S special forces in a not so friendly environment, tasked to take a compound with a highly valued target in it. A firefight censuses. Target is killed. Special forces grab body and leave.
> 
> Now, if they had tried to take him alive, now, one the target has to be subdued. *Knowing Osama* I highly doubt he would be subdued easily. And, taking him alive would be much harder. Because now, in the middle of a firefight, with an uncooperative target, the soldiers now have to keep him alive as well as themselves making them easier targets.
> 
> ...



How, exactly, do you know osama?

Are you a terrorist, Rukh?

Well, are you?


----------



## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Also there are now people partying outside my dorm shouting "AMERICA" and playing vuvuzelas and lighting fireworks. This celebration is sickening.


 
It is pretty sickening, and normally I would be right there with you. There's just something about this instance that I can't explain, and while I don't feel like celebrating, I don't feel like yelling at the celebrators just yet. It's like they needed this. 

\I'll give it a day before I start ranting about it

Edit: I'm not trying to defend my morality as perfect here. I know I'm not a paragon of virtue. Oh well.


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## Littlerock (May 2, 2011)

The_Unknowin said:


> Hell Yeah!!! I'm so glad he's dead. I'm not an American but this is soooo relieving to hear this however I wonder what will happen? will the terrorists retaliate?


 à² _à²


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## Ames (May 2, 2011)

I think this is going to be more of a symbolic victory for the US.

I mean, how much power could he actually have had at the time of death?


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## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> How, exactly, do you know osama?
> 
> Are you a terrorist, Rukh?
> 
> Well, are you?


 
Yeah, him and me were best buddies. Had many a talks with the man sipping beer watching football....

Seriously, your an idiot.


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## Littlerock (May 2, 2011)

"_In Pakistan_"
Oh for the love of fuck, this is the last thing the Pakistani civilians needed on their plate. It's bad enough there as it is.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm a believer in moral objectivism, that some actions are right and wrong without dependency on relative facts, issues, or context. Celebrating a death is one of those objective moral facts that is inherently wrong. No exceptions. It's petty, immoral, and downright wrong. Yes, his actions were terrible, but in no way do his actions justify us enjoying another human being's painful demise.
> 
> Also there are now people partying outside my dorm shouting "AMERICA" and playing vuvuzelas and lighting fireworks. This celebration is sickening.
> 
> ...


 
His family (rich Saudi oil billionaires and Dubya's BFFs, btw) already disowned him well before this.  Cyclical violence is absolutely worth speaking out against and trying to prevent but stop to think what actually applies here first.


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## TwilightV (May 2, 2011)

At least they (successfully) tried to keep casualties to a minimum.


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## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

The_Unknowin said:


> Hell Yeah!!! I'm so glad he's dead. I'm not an American but this is soooo relieving to hear this however I wonder what will happen? will the terrorists retaliate?


 
There is some speculation that they will due to some kind of brotherhood martyrdom.  News reporters are saying that security will likely have to take a whole 'nother leap up, which may be a huge pain for people commuting via airlines.  Also, keep in mind that a lot of these extremists don't value their lives and strive only to achieve satisfaction in the afterlife.  But honestly, if there is an Allah, he will surely condemn those bastards to hell for their murderous actions.  This is definitely a good day in the war against terror and freeing the countries in the middle east from its grip.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I assume it looked like this:
> 
> [yt]G3MfiL0Sjsk[/yt]


 Funny thing, I just heard that they killed a woman shield! PRECOG ALERT :V


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Think Deo, please.


 READ Rukh, please.
I said I had hoped though I knew it was unlikely that he'd be captured alive. I said it was unlikely, so you don't have to go "WELL IT WAS UNLIKELY". I get it, and I already said so. If you bothered to read what I said instead of justifying bullshit with AMUURRRICA then I might be able to take you seriously. 



The_Unknowin said:


> Hell Yeah!!! I'm so glad he's dead.


 Seriously?  No, fuck you. People should not be "glad" that he's dead, we should not  be deriving pleasure from the death of another human being.


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## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> How, exactly, do you know osama?
> 
> Are you a terrorist, Rukh?
> 
> Well, are you?


 What I find sick is the fact that not even a few years ago, a joke like this would end up someone being interrogated by the gov :/


Aden said:


> It is pretty sickening, and normally I would be right there with you. There's just something about this instance that I can't explain, and while I don't feel like celebrating, I don't feel like yelling at the celebrators just yet. It's like they needed this.
> 
> \I'll give it a day before I start ranting about it
> 
> Edit: I'm not trying to defend my morality as perfect here. I know I'm not a paragon of virtue. Oh well.


 If they are still celebrating tomorrow that is a bad sign.


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## JadeFire (May 2, 2011)

This is going to be one hell of a hornets nest we've opened. Now it's time to see if our homeland defense is up to the task.

Also, this is a man who wished nothing but death and misery on his enemies, and was in full support of humanity's return to savage barbarism. He caused and gloated over the deaths of many innocent people of many nationalities and many faiths, including his own. He was a terrible man, and the world is absolutely better off without people like him. While it's unfortunate that we're celebrating the death of a human being, Osama's death is an absolute good thing, and we can't forget that. Deriving pleasure from his death is technically immoral, but it is entirely justified. So quit arguing about it.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Why is it wrong? Morality is subjective, blah blah blah, I can see the celebration of the death of good or otherwise neutral people as being horrible. But this fellow has been bringing nothing but bloodshed, aggression, and inhumanity wherever he's tred, and he's inspired, equipped, and mentored countless others. There is no shame in celebrating this. Petty it may be, it's all most folks got.



And when people celebrate the execution of someone they had absolutely nothing to do with, who for all they know might be innocent, it's for similar reasons, "because it's all they got". They want someone to pay for the fact they hate their job, or that they don't have one, or that they don't get on with their family, or whatever. Deo's right. They're not at all coming from a good place when they "celebrate" someone's death. They'd be coming from a good place if they lamented the fact that someone like Osama bin Laden used their wealth, influence, intelligence and sheer charisma for evil instead of good. But he turned out the way he did for the same fundamental reason you guys feel and react the way you do; because it's simply _easier_ to feel spite and hate than remorse, and to be glad the bad guy went away (in the short term) instead of wishing they could have been one of the good guys.



Azure said:


> It's a fair bit deeper than this. In fact, it's way fucking deeper. In fact, the Cold War never ended.


 
The Cold War never ended the way the Roman Empire never fell. The Russians are still half a continent's worth of sociopathic crime cartels pretending they're a legitimate government, and the Italians and their former Roman provinces are still a bunch of stubby, greasy heathens doing a piss poor job at being Christian _or_ Roman, but nonetheless, the leaderships have changed, the ideologies have changed, the borders on all the maps have changed, the eras have changed. So "it's over" _enough_.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

JamesB said:


> I think this is going to be more of a symbolic victory for the US.
> 
> I mean, how much power could he actually have had at the time of death?


 He had almost none. He was killed for revenge to placate the masses.

Fuck I wish those fireworks would stop. Goddamnit, if this continues I'm going out there and tearing soe AMURRICA idiots some new ones.


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## A10pex (May 2, 2011)

Military intelligence is not an oxymoron anymore


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Seriously, your an idiot.


 Sigg'd.


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## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Yeah, him and me were best buddies. Had many a talks with the man sipping beer watching football....
> 
> Seriously, your an idiot.


 
Says he who can't take a joke, :V

Or use the correct form of 'you're'.


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## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> we should not  be deriving pleasure from the death of another human being.


 
The way I see it Deo, Osama Bin Laden was not a human, he was a monster.  So we raided his dungeon, killed him without standing in the fire and stole his epic loots.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> This is definitely a good day in the war against terror and freeing the countries in the middle east from its grip.


 How does the death of a man who has no current influence in terrorist activities "free the countries in the middle east"? Hyperbole and asinine assumptions anyone?


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## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> How does the death of a man who has no current influence in terrorist activities "free the countries in the middle east"? Hyperbole and asinine assumptions anyone?


 
Stop trying to reason with madness, it's not going to do anything but frustrate you. lol


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## Oopslol (May 2, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ47eGSilPc&feature=player_embedded

South Park: Nostradamus for a new era


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> The way I see it Deo, Osama Bin Laden was not a human, he was a monster.  So we raided his dungeon, killed him without standing in the fire and stole his epic loots.


 No.
We do not dehumanize. When people demonize and dehumanize each other it ends in more bloodshed. Everyone is a person, everyone has basic human rights. It is childish to pretend that he is a monster in order to defend our sick glorification of his death.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> And when people celebrate the execution of someone they had absolutely nothing to do with, who for all they know might be innocent, it's for similar reasons, "because it's all they got". They want someone to pay for the fact they hate their job, or that they don't have one, or that they don't get on with their family, or whatever. Deo's right. They're not at all coming from a good place when they "celebrate" someone's death. They'd be coming from a good place if they lamented the fact that someone like Osama bin Laden used their wealth, influence, intelligence and sheer charisma for evil instead of good. But he turned out the way he did for the same fundamental reason you guys feel and react the way you do; because it's simply _easier_ to feel spite and hate than remorse, and to be glad the bad guy went away (in the short term) instead of wishing they could have been one of the good guys.


The rabble will never change. And what might have, could have, would have been, but never was ain't a relateable fact to them. That, and Saudi creme de la creme aren't known for their good hearted nature. And who are we to judge what place any person comes from? What makes us better judges of character than another?




Wolf-Bone said:


> The Cold War never ended the way the Roman Empire never fell. The Russians are still half a continent's worth of sociopathic crime cartels pretending they're a legitimate government, and the Italians and their former Roman provinces are still a bunch of stubby, greasy heathens doing a piss poor job at being Christian _or_ Roman, but nonetheless, the leaderships have changed, the ideologies have changed, the borders on all the maps have changed, the eras have changed. So "it's over" _enough_.


 Yeah, but the toys just get more and more dangerous.


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## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

What people assume this means-
[yt]4-fMlJ0Sf1k[/yt]
However we still have the war in Afghanistan and Al Queda is still killing our doods in our base.


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## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Seriously?  No, fuck you. People should not be "glad" that he's dead, we should not  be deriving pleasure from the death of another human being.


 
Deo, the next few days are gonna be hell for you because people will be celebrating. 

Face it, this is a very evil dude we're talking about, he killed thousands of people on our soil which dragged us into this war, and is responsible for many other deaths in other countries. He's a religious extremist, and influenced many innocent people to follow him. Saying that Osama shouldn't be dead is about the equivalent of saying that Hitler shouldn't be dead. 

He deserves to die, he seriously fucking does, there's no arguing that at all.


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## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm not going to jump on the wagon of "YEAH HE'S DEAD, WOO HOO!". I don't celebrate anyone's death, nor do I find happiness in his death. To be honest it would have been better for us if he was captured alive and fully interrogated for information, though we may have done that (I'm not clear on the circumstances of his death, if we got information out of him, and no I do not mean torture as a means of interrogation). I am not glad, or happy over this man's death, but I am feeling a small sense of relief that perhaps there is a lessened threat of violence and death in the world. Perhaps. Not that the death of an old, ailing, _past leader_ of Al Qaida has the same meaning it did when Osama Bin Laden was actually running the show. We need the current leaders of Al Qaida, not the leaders from ten years ago killed and their deaths celebrated out of some perverse revenge.



I absolutely understand where you are coming from in this, but I for one am happy that this guy is dead.   Gods bless the kiss-ass Navy SEALs for taking down this festering piece of shit.


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## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

There's nothing sick about getting rid of one of the worst world criminals known to mankind.  Besides, I never said that 1 man is holding the entire middle east hostage; just that terrorism is a bigger problem there than it is here, and they probably welcome his death just as much, if not more than any American who lost family members to his planned attacks.  Even if he is just a figurehead, he was a huge inspiration to many jihad leaders and it will definitely be demoralizing to them.

Also, you saying that it's better he be alive is naive.  I like the analogy about Hitler.


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## Roose Hurro (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

*"Osama Bin Laden is Dead."*

About time...


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## JadeFire (May 2, 2011)

Huh. The day we've finally killed bin Laden and people are already ranting passionately about it.

And we wonder why we can't have nice things.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No.
> We do not dehumanize. When people demonize and dehumanize each other it ends in more bloodshed. Everyone is a person, everyone has basic human rights. It is childish to pretend that he is a monster in order to defend our sick glorification of his death.


 
It's true. It's like when there's that _rare_ biopic or book that tries to represent the real Hitler, with all the sensationalism removed, and people in the media express concern because someone wants to show him "as if he were actually human". Hate to break it to you, but _he was_, and that's what people don't want to wrestle with. The same person who would go on to almost single-handedly instigate WWII and who was directly responsible for the holocaust started out as a slightly above average artist with some slightly out in left field political theories and a milder antisemitism than what a lot of "normal" people harbor. It's not easy to think a lot of *furries* on this very site could essentially be Hitler if circumstances were just a little different, or that by that same token, Hitler could be that quirky guy you talk to on the internet and view their art. Tough shit. Life's complicated.


----------



## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

Darkwing said:


> Deo, the next few days are gonna be hell for you because people will be celebrating.
> 
> Face it, this is a very evil dude we're talking about, he killed thousands of people on our soil which dragged us into this war, and is responsible for many other deaths in other countries. He's a religious extremist, and influenced many innocent people to follow him.* Saying that Osama shouldn't be dead is about the equivalent of saying that Hitler shouldn't be dead. *
> 
> He deserves to die, he seriously fucking does, there's no arguing that at all.



Hitler: Oversaw the deaths of several million people, conquered Europe under a totalitarian regime.

Osama: Oversaw the deaths of several thousand people and hid in caves for a decade.

Will people stop equating EVERYONE who did something bad with Hitler, it's getting kind of old.


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## TwilightV (May 2, 2011)

A person's age and health is not always equal to their influence upon others. A prime example of this was (is?) Fidel Castro.


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## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

Godwin's law
[/thread]


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Godwin's law
> [/thread]


 Shut up or contribute.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> AThey're not at all coming from a good place when they "celebrate" someone's death. They'd be coming from a good place if they lamented the fact that someone like Osama bin Laden used their wealth, influence, intelligence and sheer charisma for evil instead of good. But he turned out the way he did for the same fundamental reason you guys feel and react the way you do; because it's simply _easier_ to feel spite and hate than remorse, and to be glad the bad guy went away (in the short term) instead of wishing they could have been one of the good guys.


 This is it. It's easier for us to forget that we equipped these terrorists, and simply blame it on a man whose face we know. It's easier for the mind to grasp, and not nearly as complex. And it is easier for us to dissonance ourselves from such people as Hitler and Osama by depriving them of humanity, of calling them monsters. It's easier to let ourselves hate them that way. And indeed we want to hate them, hate is so much easier. It's easier to light fireworks and scream about America and revel in a man's death than pay penance and thought to the thousands dead in the war and to regret the armament of the Mujahadeen (sp?). It's easier if we cleanly seperate it into "them" and "us", that way we can ignore them as people, we can kill them without remorse, and we can plunder their homeland and ravage their civilians in retaliation. It's easier, but it's not right. 
I IMPLORE YOU, TRANSCEND THIS MADNESS PEOPLE! Or at least consider it.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

Clearly this is a stunning victory for Islam. Bin Laden is now a martyr to lead his people to victory and is in heaven celebrating with his thousands of virgins. Praise Allah!

:V


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Godwin's law
> [/thread]


 
when talking about actual mass murderers godwin doesn't really apply

you know what why don't you just go over to the kids' table until we're done here


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## Littlerock (May 2, 2011)

If AlQuidditch (spelling I do not give a shit) managed to kill Obama somehow, (what the nonsensical fuck), and their minions and leaders cheered, danced in the streets, and in other ways raised da roof, who but any patriotic American would call them less than 'barbarians'?

Dammit, America.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> It's true. It's like when there's that _rare_ biopic or book that tries to represent the real Hitler, with all the sensationalism removed, and people in the media express concern because someone wants to show him "as if he were actually human". Hate to break it to you, but _he was_, and that's what people don't want to wrestle with. The same person who would go on to almost single-handedly instigate WWII and who was directly responsible for the holocaust started out as a slightly above average artist with some slightly out in left field political theories and a milder antisemitism than what a lot of "normal" people harbor. It's not easy to think a lot of *furries* on this very site could essentially be Hitler if circumstances were just a little different, or that by that same token, Hitler could be that quirky guy you talk to on the internet and view their art. Tough shit. Life's complicated.


It cuts too close. That humans are capable of such savagery and depravity. But it is important that we do not forget our evils, and do not dehumanize others. For if we do we are likely to in our complacency allow such actions to reoccur and history to repeat itself.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Shut up or contribute.


 The fact we have dehumanized him is nothing new, and I expect the celebrations over his death to last days because even though we like to pretend to take the moral high ground it doesn't change the fact people are out getting drunk and blowing vuvezela in celebration.  We are celebrating over his death and osama celebrated over the deaths in 9/11.  We're stooping to his level.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Darkwing said:


> He deserves to die, he seriously fucking does, there's no arguing that at all.


 No. No one deserves to die. Ever. No exceptions. Never compromise on the important tenets of morality. You try to say he deserves death, but for what? To sate your need for revenge? To make this war seem as if it had a point? To justify the ransack and bloodshed over the decade? No.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

barefootfoof said:


> If AlQuidditch (spelling I do not give a shit) managed to kill Obama somehow, (what the nonsensical fuck), and their minions and leaders cheered, danced in the streets, and in other ways raised da roof, who but any patriotic American would call them less than 'barbarians'?
> 
> Dammit, America.


 
Al-Qaeda is not a nation, bin Laden is not a head of state, analogy is not valid.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> Also, you saying that it's better he be alive is naive.  I like the analogy about Hitler.


 It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> Clearly this is a stunning victory for Islam. Bin Laden is now a martyr to lead his people to victory and is in heaven celebrating with his thousands of virgins. Praise Allah!
> 
> :V


 
Oh yeah.  This is just the beginning of the shit-storm we're going to see.  Despite the fact that he and his band of terrorists have done a fantastic job in making Muslims look fricken' nuts, the terrorist cells that are still active are more then likely going to retaliate and go out in a blaze of glory, taking as many people out with them.  There's a lot of clean up left to be done, but I'm hoping that no one else will die for the ideal of a martyred Osama Bin Ladin.


----------



## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

barefootfoof said:


> If AlQuidditch (spelling I do not give a shit) managed to kill Obama somehow, (what the nonsensical fuck), and their minions and leaders cheered, danced in the streets, and in other ways raised da roof, who but any patriotic American would call them less than 'barbarians'?
> 
> Dammit, America.


 
Like the people in this thread saying we should drag his corpse through the street and hang it places and such? Yeah, I sort of laughed about that too :V


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> This is it. It's easier for us to forget that we equipped these terrorists, and simply blame it on a man whose face we know. It's easier for the mind to grasp, and not nearly as complex. And it is easier for us to dissonance ourselves from such people as Hitler and Osama by depriving them of humanity, of calling them monsters. It's easier to let ourselves hate them that way. And indeed we want to hate them, hate is so much easier. It's easier to light fireworks and scream about America and revel in a man's death than pay penance and thought to the thousands dead in the war and to regret the armament of the Mujahadeen (sp?). It's easier if we cleanly seperate it into "them" and "us", that way we can ignore them as people, we can kill them without remorse, and we can plunder their homeland and ravage their civilians in retaliation. It's easier, but it's not right.
> I IMPLORE YOU, TRANSCEND THIS MADNESS PEOPLE! Or at least consider it.


 In the larger scheme of things, of course, you're right. Our nation IS hyped up on nationalism. And racism. And classism. And every other little divide we can possibly think of. Hate IS easier. Dehumanization of "enemies" is being programmed into children and adults alike, through every form of media and more. And it's wrong. Rationally thinking people know this. What's to be done? 




Deo said:


> It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.


Why? You gonna question him? What do you expect to get out of him?


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Pretty much anything and everything I have to say about this has already been said. 

America fuck yeah and all what. 

EDIT: I think it's good that he's dead and not captured, actually. He's useless to us as a prisoner, and if he was in our custody for even a day before being shipped back to an American prison we would be in a world of shit. 



Azure said:


> Shut up


 
Fixed.  :v


----------



## DarrylWolf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Mojotech said:


> Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing" or as a negative somehow. :V



I really do find a negative in that Osama binLaden had the chance in life to be remembered as something much different than the 21st-century villain we knew him as today. Imagine if he'd used his intellect, money, and obvious strategic prowess for something good instead. That's the reason why I can't bring myself to declare May 1 as a day of victory just yet.


----------



## Littlerock (May 2, 2011)

Lobar said:


> Al-Qaeda is not a nation, bin Laden is not a head of state, analogy is not valid.


  Analogy is quite valid, considering how short a fuse the average American has when it comes to getting beaten at ANYTHING. Where people are placed politically doesn't always give them the assumed level of power among the people. 
So late, how I make sense? Brain has ceased function. :c


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.


 
Maybe it wasn't possible for him to be captured alive?  Honestly, do you think he would've even gone along quietly?  He probably doesn't even cherish this life and would endure any amount of interrogation & torture without talking.  Also, if he was released back into Pakistan for the (non Al Qaida) citizens to take care of him, they most likely would've hanged him.  Remember, that's exactly what happened to Saddam.


----------



## Kangamutt (May 2, 2011)

Oh god I am NOT looking forward to all the annoying flag-waving, blind nationalism, and the having 9/11 crammed down my throat again. Not like it's going to bring anyone that died over the past 10 years because of all this back to life, or revive our fallen economy due to the huge investment in it, or bring back those who are still stationed over there.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



DarrylWolf said:


> I really do find a negative in that Osama binLaden had the chance in life to be remembered as something much different than the 21st-century villain we knew him as today. Imagine if he'd used his intellect, money, and obvious strategic prowess for something good instead. That's the reason why I can't bring myself to declare May 1 as a day of victory just yet.


 
We can imagine that, and mourn that he didn't use his talents and finances to do good (as we in the west see the idea of good) but he did use it for a very evil purpose; to end the lives of many others, including those that believed in what he said and blew themselves up for his cause.  I have no sympathy for this man.  He was evil, pure and simple.   He chose how to live his life, and it was in the most distructive way possible.  I am glad that he is dead because he will no longer be able to spread the hatred in his heart to his followers.   Mourn him if you must for the loss of potential, but never forget how much suffering, fear, and pain he orchestrated.   Period.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> In the larger scheme of things, of course, you're right. Our nation IS hyped up on nationalism. And racism. And classism. And every other little divide we can possibly think of. Hate IS easier. Dehumanization of "enemies" is being programmed into children and adults alike, through every form of media and more. And it's wrong. Rationally thinking people know this. What's to be done?


I honestly wish I knew. I am trying though, right now, in attempting to stop this vicious cycle of revenge, hatred, and dehumanizing; at least in this small sphere of the internet. I'll see what I can do tommarrow, I just bet there'll be a rally or something on central campus, and I'll try to convince others to drop their hatred there as well. Perhaps that is the best I can do. I will strive for more, and I hope that in turn my efforts will impact others and inspire them to change and to give their voices against violence and barbarism.



Azure said:


> Why? You gonna question him? What do you expect to get out of him?


 We could question him. We could use him as a lure. We could use him as a negotiating leverage (not much though due to his lack of current influence). But live capture would be better than him dead. When he is dead he becomes a token to the cause, he becomes a rallying point, he becomes a way to say "Look at how barbaric those people are in how they glorify a man's death!" And again, I did not wish him dead. I believe no one deserves to die.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

also if you think Bradley Manning's treatment is inhumane


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No. *No one deserves to die. Ever. No exceptions*. Never compromise on the important tenets of morality. You try to say he deserves death, but for what? To sate your need for revenge? To make this war seem as if it had a point? To justify the ransack and bloodshed over the decade? No.


 
So all those people who tried to assassinate Hitler were doing wrong then? Or just the fact that by saying what you did, all the Nazi's tried at Nuremberg that were condemned to death was wrong? Or anytime the world holds a trial on the basis of crimes against humanity and condems the said person to death for the crime, Apparently that is wrong too.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> Oh god I am NOT looking forward to all the annoying flag-waving, blind nationalism, and the having 9/11 crammed down my throat again. Not like it's going to bring anyone that died over the past 10 years because of all this back to life, or revive our fallen economy due to the huge investment in it, or bring back those who are still stationed over there.


 
I'm dreading tomorrow because it's just gonna be photo montages with cheery music playing.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> Oh god I am NOT looking forward to all the annoying flag-waving, blind nationalism, and the having 9/11 crammed down my throat again. Not like it's going to bring anyone that died over the past 10 years because of all this back to life, or revive our fallen economy due to the huge investment in it, or bring back those who are still stationed over there.


 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.   Thank GOD I don't have cable TV.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> Maybe it wasn't possible for him to be captured alive?  Honestly, do you think he would've even gone along quietly?  He probably doesn't even cherish this life and would endure any amount of interrogation & torture without talking.  Also, if he was released back into Pakistan for the (non Al Qaida) citizens to take care of him, they most likely would've hanged him.  Remember, that's exactly what happened to Saddam.


 NO ONE READS.
GAH.
I said it was unlikely, but I had hoped he could be captured alive. I knew it probably wasn't possible. And I spoke against torture. And if you could read/did read you'd know that because I already said it, TWICE.  

And I never said release him. Where the fuck did you get that from? Stop spewing bullshit and making shit up. Learn to read and comprehend what I type or stop replying to me.


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No. No one deserves to die. Ever. No exceptions. Never compromise on the important tenets of morality. You try to say he deserves death, but for what? To sate your need for revenge? To make this war seem as if it had a point? To justify the ransack and bloodshed over the decade? No.


 
So what should we do with him? Keep him in jail for the rest of his life and have our money go to keeping him alive? Fuck that shit, he's killed thousands of our own people in our own soil. If that doesn't justify death than what does?


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> . Revenge brings nothing but bitter death.


 
He's already dead. There WILL be consequences in terms of Muslim-extremists retaliating in protest, celebrations or not. But I see your point, death is a bad thing and justice will always be better. Just making an observation.


----------



## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

We agree to take drones and other such material out of Pakistan.

Week later we found Osama and killed him. He was given to us by Pakistan.

<.<

>.>

That's about all I can say without getting in trouble.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I honestly wish I knew. I am trying though, right now, in attempting to stop this vicious cycle of revenge, hatred, and dehumanizing; at least in this small sphere of the internet. I'll see what I can do tommarrow, I just bet there'll be a rally or something on central campus, and I'll try to convince others to drop their hatred there as well. Perhaps that is the best I can do. I will strive for more, and I hope that in turn my efforts will impact others and inspire them to change and to give their voices against violence and barbarism.


Well, I wish you good luck, you do have a good message, but I don't envy anyone who tries to preach temperence to fools. It'll be interesting to see who all's down at ye olde protest spot. I might cruise by and see how people feel.




Deo said:


> We could question him. We could use him as a lure. We could use him as a negotiating leverage (not much though due to his lack of current influence). But live capture would be better than him dead. When he is dead he becomes a token to the cause, he becomes a rallying point, he becomes a way to say "Look at how barbaric those people are in how they glorify a man's death!" And again, I did not wish him dead. I believe no one deserves to die.


 A live capture of a person that influential would be horrible for us. Scandals about handling of prisoners, the inevitably useless questionings, probably propaganda from him in court or on trial. Even then, he'd be convicted dead bang, and we'd kill him. Either way, there'll be an explosion, this way, there's less drama, impromptu "trial" aside.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

I would like to point out that this is not the time for people to be gloating like idiots or celebration. Like I had said in my journal it's going to be one of two things in the near future. A: like cutting off the head of a snake or :B like cutting the head off a hydra. Either way it's very highly possible that there is going to be a counter-lash from this and many people will die. It's something to think about.


----------



## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> I'm dreading tomorrow because it's just gonna be photo montages with cheery music playing.


 
And non-stop replays of Obama's speech alongside the video footage of people cheering in front of the White House.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'll see what I can do tommarrow, I just bet there'll be a rally or something on central campus, and I'll try to convince others to drop their hatred there as well. Perhaps that is the best I can do. I will strive for more, and I hope that in turn my efforts will impact others and inspire them to change and to give their voices against violence and barbarism.



I'm just gonna say this now.  If you really honestly try to disrupt a rally celebrating his death, people will think you're an Al Qaida apologist and you might get hurt.  I'm not saying I want you to get hurt, but big mobs have a very simplistic mentality, and morals kind of fly out of the window in those situations.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Y'know I read this interesting essay exploring a theory I had for a while about Jesus. My theory was that Jesus was essentially an adoptee, in that while Mary was indeed his mother, Joseph wasn't and his true biological father was a Roman. So growing up with that knowledge, and the reality that his "impure" blood and his illegitimate status both made him a scapegoat and fundamentally incompatible with his family contributed greatly to his worldview and philosophy. But the essay took it a step further and surmised that whether purposely or subconsciously, he drove the Romans and Jews alike to hate, reject and murder him, to make the deeply held belief he had about his lot in life a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think everyone should remember, if you think Jesus was generally a good guy and not deserving of what he had to experience in life or in death, why would you want to put someone else in his place? If you admire or even worship him, again, why would you want to put someone else in his place, since obviously an evil, irredeemable monster shouldn't have anything in common with your messiah, right? That's essentially what you're doing, whether or not you want to admit it. Jesus may or may not have somehow orchestrated his own martyrdom, but one thing's for certain. He either had an intuitive, intimate knowledge of how mob mentality works and used it to both create his own following and his own, consciously or subconsciously desired end, _or_ it happened because humans are at their worst when in groups and ruled purely by *base emotion*. And if the latter is more true, it was out of both his hands _and theirs_. I'd like to believe we've become slightly better in that regard. We shouldn't try to create scapegoats anymore than we try to create martyrs, because it turns out both involve pretty much the same fucking thing, and it _always_ means humanity has become the thing it hates.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Well, I wish you good luck, you do have a good message. It'll be interesting to see who all's down at ye olde protest spot. I might cruise by and see how people feel.


 
It'll be hard for her to get her message out, with moral relativists like Rukh trying to bring her down.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> So all those people who tried to assassinate Hitler were doing wrong then? Or just the fact that by saying what you did, all the Nazi's tried at Nuremberg that were condemned to death was wrong? Or anytime the world holds a trial on the basis of crimes against humanity and condems the said person to death for the crime, Apparently that is wrong too.


 Again more Nazi references. Okay I'll play. 
I do not think that anyone deserves to die. You are firm in your beliefs Rukh, and I am firm in mine. Even Hitler. I will stand by that. EVEN HITLER. Death sentence is not the answer. It is merely a more politically correct way of sating our blood lust and thirst for revenge. No one deserves to die. (I think I've repeated that enough for even you to be able to comprehend it with your reading skills).


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

Zaraphayx said:


> And replays of Obama's speech alongside the video footage of people cheering in front of the White House.


 
Well, at least they'll stop replaying the wedding of Prince William and Kate.


----------



## Rouz (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> I'm just gonna say this now.  If you really honestly try to disrupt a rally celebrating his death, people will think you're an Al Qaida apologist and you might get hurt.  I'm not saying I want you to get hurt, but big mobs have a very simplistic mentality, and morals kind of fly out of the window in those situations.



A person is smart, people are stupid.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

Xegras said:


> We agree to take drones and other such material out of Pakistan.
> 
> Week later we found *Obama* and killed him. He was given to us by Pakistan.
> 
> ...


 
à² _à²


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Darkwing said:


> So what should we do with him? Keep him in jail for the rest of his life and have our money go to keeping him alive? Fuck that shit, he's killed thousands of our own people in our own soil. If that doesn't justify death than what does?


 Nothing does. There is no justifying killing a man. Why do you so desperately seek out a means of justifying death?


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Xegras said:


> We agree to take drones and other such material out of Pakistan.
> 
> *Week later we found Obama* and killed him. He was given to us by Pakistan.
> 
> ...



à² _à² 

EDIT: FUCK YOU LOBAR.

FUCK. YOU.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Hey interesting fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.

                                   May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.


----------



## moonchylde (May 2, 2011)

http://www.jumbojoke.com/images/virgins.jpg

That's pretty much how I feel about it. If I had the money, I'd go out and buy a bunch of alcohol and pork to celebrate.


----------



## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

Lobar said:


> à² _à²


 
Sorry I just got done running five miles when I came back to my station and heard this


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Hey *interesting* fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.
> 
> May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.


 
Did I enter an alternate universe where interesting has a different meaning?


----------



## Aden (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Hey interesting fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.
> 
> May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.


 
Somehow this means we need to vote republican


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Hey interesting fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.
> 
> May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.


 
Google damn it, for the love of all things not murry purry and rainbow vomit please don't go into any conspiracy theory mode.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler!


`


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Y'know I read this interesting essay exploring a theory I had for a while about Jesus. My theory was that Jesus was essentially an adoptee, in that while Mary was indeed his mother, Joseph wasn't and his true biological father was a Roman. So growing up with that knowledge, and the reality that his "impure" blood and his illegitimate status both made him a scapegoat and fundamentally incompatible with his family contributed greatly to his worldview and philosophy. But the essay took it a step further and surmised that whether purposely or subconsciously, he drove the Romans and Jews alike to hate, reject and murder him, to make the deeply held belief he had about his lot in life a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think everyone should remember, if you think Jesus was generally a good guy and not deserving of what he had to experience in life or in death, why would you want to put someone else in his place? If you admire or even worship him, again, why would you want to put someone else in his place, since obviously an evil, irredeemable monster shouldn't have anything in common with your messiah, right? That's essentially what you're doing, whether or not you want to admit it. Jesus may or may not have somehow orchestrated his own martyrdom, but one thing's for certain. He either had an intuitive, intimate knowledge of how mob mentality works and used it to both create his own following and his own, consciously or subconsciously desired end, _or_ it happened because humans are at their worst when in groups and ruled purely by *base emotion*. And if the latter is more true, it was out of both his hands _and theirs_. I'd like to believe we've become slightly better in that regard. We shouldn't try to create scapegoats anymore than we try to create martyrs, because it turns out both involve pretty much the same fucking thing, and it _always_ means humanity has become the thing it hates.


Those who shake the tree are often laid low by falling coconuts. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. Self fulfilling martyrs suck.



Mojotech said:


> It'll be hard for her to get her message out, with moral relativists like Rukh trying to bring her down.


It makes me sad to think that people would actually rally behind his "logic".


----------



## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

CAThulu said:


> Well, at least they'll stop replaying the wedding of Prince William and Kate.


 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/And-T...e-USA-outdoes-a-Royal-Wedding/183567638361529


----------



## Kangamutt (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> I'm dreading tomorrow because it's just gonna be photo montages with cheery music playing.


 
Oh god oh god oh god oh god that horrible "Proud to be an American" song is probably going to be coming back with it. D:


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Hey interesting fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.
> 
> May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.


 
Interestingly enough, the sermon today was on pain and why there was suffering in the world at my parents church.  Pretty ironic, huh?


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> I'm just gonna say this now.  If you really honestly try to disrupt a rally celebrating his death, people will think you're an Al Qaida apologist and you might get hurt.  I'm not saying I want you to get hurt, but big mobs have a very simplistic mentality, and morals kind of fly out of the window in those situations.


 HAHAHAHAHA
WHAT
BECAUSE I STOP AND TRY TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE THAT IT IS WRONG TO BEGET PLEASURE FROM THE DEATH OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING I MUST BE WITH AL QAIDA. 
Hold the phones this is*the stupidest thing* I have heard in a very, very, very long time.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> Google damn it, for the love of all things not murry purry and rainbow vomit please don't go into any conspiracy theory mode.


 
Is it possible to ban specific problem posters from a specific thread?


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Nothing does. There is no justifying killing a man. Why do you so desperately seek out a means of justifying death?


 
Because what greater power in the world is their than to own another person? And what greater expression of that power is there than to snuff out said person's life? I think most people, deep down want that kind of power, even if they can only participate in and experience it vicariously.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



CAThulu said:


> Interestingly enough, the sermon today was on pain and why there was suffering in the world at my parents church.  Pretty ironic, huh?


 
No. I expect churches to do fire and brimstone _all the time.

_Honestly, though, the big issue for me is that that's not interesting.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

Zaraphayx said:


> http://www.facebook.com/pages/And-T...e-USA-outdoes-a-Royal-Wedding/183567638361529


 
*LMAO*  Obama's all "Rat Pack" back there too.  Nice


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> Google damn it, for the love of all things not murry purry and rainbow vomit please don't go into any conspiracy theory mode.


 
I'm not. I just think its kinda funny.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> HAHAHAHAHA
> WHAT
> BECAUSE I STOP AND TRY TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE THAT IT IS WRONG TO BEGET PLEASURE FROM THE DEATH OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING I MUST BE WITH AL QAIDA.
> Hold the phones this is*the stupidest thing* I have heard in a very, very, very long time.


 Modify a Bernzo into a full fledged homemade flame thrower for those flying morals.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> It'll be hard for her to get her message out, with moral relativists like Rukh trying to bring her down.


  Even though it may be hard it's worth it in the end. I encourage you all to speak publicly against dehumanizing, relishing in revenge, and violence. You don't have to, but your opinions and your voices matter.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> NO ONE READS.
> GAH.
> I said it was unlikely, but I had hoped he could be captured alive. I knew it probably wasn't possible. And I spoke against torture. And if you could read/did read you'd know that because I already said it, TWICE.
> 
> And I never said release him. Where the fuck did you get that from? Stop spewing bullshit and making shit up. Learn to read and comprehend what I type or stop replying to me.


 
I know you spoke against torture, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, whether here or in his own country.  Why do you think that everything I say is a direct response to what you said?  If you used your brain you'd realize that I was speaking hypothetically.  This is all hypothetical because he's dead.  Get over it.  I said -if- he was released back to answer to the people of his country who he's threatened for decades.

Also, "With Al Qaida" and "Al Qaida apologist" are two different things.  Use your brain before you reply.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Exunod said:


> No. I expect churches to do fire and brimstone _all the time.
> 
> _Honestly, though, the big issue for me is that that's not interesting.


 
Not a christian here.  Pagan.  I hated that sermon.  I just love irony


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Y'know I read this interesting essay exploring a theory I had for a while about Jesus. My theory was that Jesus was essentially an adoptee, in that while Mary was indeed his mother, Joseph wasn't and his true biological father was a Roman. So growing up with that knowledge, and the reality that his "impure" blood and his illegitimate status both made him a scapegoat and fundamentally incompatible with his family contributed greatly to his worldview and philosophy. But the essay took it a step further and surmised that whether purposely or subconsciously, he drove the Romans and Jews alike to hate, reject and murder him, to make the deeply held belief he had about his lot in life a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think everyone should remember, if you think Jesus was generally a good guy and not deserving of what he had to experience in life or in death, why would you want to put someone else in his place? If you admire or even worship him, again, why would you want to put someone else in his place, since obviously an evil, irredeemable monster shouldn't have anything in common with your messiah, right? That's essentially what you're doing, whether or not you want to admit it. Jesus may or may not have somehow orchestrated his own martyrdom, but one thing's for certain. He either had an intuitive, intimate knowledge of how mob mentality works and used it to both create his own following and his own, consciously or subconsciously desired end, _or_ it happened because humans are at their worst when in groups and ruled purely by *base emotion*. And if the latter is more true, it was out of both his hands _and theirs_. I'd like to believe we've become slightly better in that regard. We shouldn't try to create scapegoats anymore than we try to create martyrs, because it turns out both involve pretty much the same fucking thing, and it _always_ means humanity has become the thing it hates.


 
That.... is *so* *fucking* deep man.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Mojotech said:


> Is it possible to ban specific problem posters from a specific thread?


 
No. I'm not allowed to ban people for questionable intelligence that leads to conflict over the result of questionable intelligence related posts.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> If I had the money, I'd go out and buy a bunch of *alcohol* and *pork* to *celebrate*.


 *à² _à² *
LOOK AT THIS FACE OF DISAPPROVAL AND THEN READ THE LAST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> That.... is *so* *fucking* deep man.



In b4 wooby starts ranting about slave--



Wolf-Bone said:


> *Because what greater power in the world is  their than to own another person?* And what greater expression of that  power is there than to snuff out said person's life? I think most  people, deep down want that kind of power, even if they can only  participate in and experience it vicariously.



Fuck.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> I'm not. I just think its kinda funny.


 
You have a sick sense of humor. I don't mean that in a good way.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> I'm not. I just think its kinda funny.


 
Other things Hitler and Osama shared-

They were men.

They both ate food.

They both did what they did because they worshipped an ancient desert blood god and wanted to purify the infidels and their bloodlines... Through fire.

In other words, what's your point? :V




Deo said:


> Even though it may be hard it's worth it in the end. I encourage you all to speak publicly against dehumanizing, relishing in revenge, and violence. You don't have to, but your opinions and your voices matter.


 
Already do. Death is a means to stop someone from hurting others, but is also the worst possible choice. (Aside from things like Torture and THEN death. :V )

Edit:


Trpdwarf said:


> No. I'm not allowed to ban people for questionable intelligence that leads to conflict over the result of questionable intelligence related posts.


 
Darn.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

Tell ya the truth, I thought he was already dead. good to hear though. I bet some people within the ISI is pissed they didn't do a good enough job protecting him.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Mojotech said:


> Other things Hitler and Osama shared-
> 
> They were men.
> 
> ...



Lethal violence is only morally permissible if it will prevent consequences worse than the violence itself and it's the only form of communication of available.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> You have a sick sense of humor. I don't mean that in a good way.


 
In an ironic type of way. Yeah, I find it weird that the on the same day, 2 of the most evil men alive were announced dead. Is there anything that explains that, or is their a deeper meaning? No, As I said, I just find it weird that it happens to be on the same day.



Deo said:


> *à² _à² *
> LOOK AT THIS FACE OF DISAPPROVAL AND THEN READ THE LAST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD.


 
I can't speak for all the people celebrating, but I for one am celebrating the fact, that that man can no longer do harm to people anymore. Now, is that wrong to celebrate Deo? To celebrate the fact that Osama can't harm anyone else.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

I'd just like to say real quick...that people who are in pain and are terminally ill attached to a machine which keeps them alive artificially... absolutely deserve death, if they so choose.  Who says death is always a bad thing?


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

DAMNIT PEOPLE (outside my dorm)
MOTHERFUCKERS NOW HAVE AIR HORNS AND TRUMPETS TO GO WITH THEIR FIREWORKS
FUCKERS IT'S 1AM EXAMS ARE TOMMARROW, ARE YOU ALL REALLY _THAT _GLEEFUL OVER A MAN BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD??!?!


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Exunod said:


> Lethal violence is only morally permissible if it will prevent consequences worse than the violence itself and it's the only form of communication of available.


 
Pretty much. It should be the last resort though.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> It would be better for him to be alive and captured. You're a moron if you think otherwise.


 
Him being alive wouldn't count for anything more than when Sadam was caught alive.  Eventually, we would have killed him.

Now, just my opinion on the matter here:

I remember 9/11.  Vividly.  My 7th grade Language Arts teacher was called out, because her husband was in the North Tower when it was hit.  My principal came in and told us planes flew into the towers.  I walked home after a full day of school and could actually see the smoke coming from where the towers were.  Two days later I learn that several families in and around my town learned one of their loved ones was either dead or stranded in New York City after the attacks while at a candle light vigil, one of them being a relative of mine.  Hundreds more first responders are still suffering illnesses caused by the debris of the attacks.  So I might be a bit biased here, given my relation to the events.

Justice needed to be served.  He needed to be held accountable for the thousands of people killed that day as well as his constituents.  There is no statute of limitations nor does this mean less to those people in the New York area just because this is a decade later.  The effects of those attacks are still apparent today just as much as the giant hole in the ground left after the wreckage was cleared.  Would it have been nice for him to be alive?  Maybe.  I can't imagine what his trial would actually prove.  Any information he may have given would be highly suspect given his current standing in al-Qaeda and short of torture, I doubt he'd be willing to give anything useful (even then, he'd probably just tell us anything we wanted to hear at that point).

This is the end of an era, and yet it's not.  It remains to be seen what impact his death will have, considering heightened alert levels in US embassies throughout the world and numerous threats against western nations for attempts on Bin Laden's life.  Can I say that I'm glad that his dead?  I suppose.  Frankly, the kind of mad man that has inspired and orchestrated the deaths of countless innocents for the propagation of his ideology such as him holds no place in the world.

We can recall American involvement with training Osama and his constituents, arming them, and so on.  At the end of the day though, this is a man who didn't think twice about killing a child if it meant pleasing his idea of God.  I can make several arguments against the execution of someone purely on a revenge standpoint, but there's something so decidedly evil about Bin Laden that it's hard for many people to look at him and say "he shouldn't have been killed."  To ask for apathy or malaise over his death is simply asking too much of people, especially those who have actually been touched by what he's done.

If we're lucky, this victory will lead to moving political discussion more onto the domestic front in the United States.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> In an ironic type of way. Yeah, I find it weird that the on the same day, 2 of the most evil men alive were announced dead. Is there anything that explains that, or is their a deeper meaning? No, As I said, I just find it weird that it happens to be on the same day.


 
There are worse people than Osama by a long shot.



Mojotech said:


> Pretty much. It should be the last resort though.


 
That's what the second condition is all about. If any other form of communication is available, it's not morally permissible. I lack knowledge of bin laden as a person, and their power structure to really gauge whether or not I think his death is morally justified. This is one of those political instances where I feel really conflicted, and there's nowhere in politics for someone who hasn't made up their mind with zealous fervor.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> I'd just like to say real quick...that people who are in pain and are terminally ill attached to a machine which keeps them alive artificially... absolutely deserve death, *if they so choose*.  Who says death is always a bad thing?


 There is the morally important difference in your situations, sir. One chooses death, the other has his life deprived of him against his will. THINK. PLEASE ATTEMPT TO THINK.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Exunod said:


> There are worse people than Osama by a long shot.


 
yeah, but they probably didn't die on the same day as Hitler, and weren't as globally hated.

Really, I know all you guys can't stand Rukh, but he's just pointing out a coincidence.  Leave him alone.


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> DAMNIT PEOPLE (outside my dorm)
> MOTHERFUCKERS NOW HAVE AIR HORNS AND TRUMPETS TO GO WITH THEIR FIREWORKS
> FUCKERS IT'S 1AM EXAMS ARE TOMMARROW, ARE YOU ALL REALLY _THAT _GLEEFUL OVER A MAN BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD??!?!


 
Alright, that's pushing it a bit. This time of night, people can afford to "fuck yea america" with a little tact.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> DAMNIT PEOPLE (outside my dorm)
> MOTHERFUCKERS NOW HAVE AIR HORNS AND TRUMPETS TO GO WITH THEIR FIREWORKS
> FUCKERS IT'S 1AM EXAMS ARE TOMMARROW, ARE YOU ALL REALLY _THAT _GLEEFUL OVER A MAN BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD??!?!


 
any excuse to party


----------



## moonchylde (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> *à² _à² *
> LOOK AT THIS FACE OF DISAPPROVAL AND THEN READ THE LAST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD.


 
Sorry, but while I have nothing but respect for other people's beliefs, that respect stops when they believe in wholesale slaughter in the name of their "god". That man had the blood of thousands on his hands, so as far as I'm concerned he can rot for eternity in the devil's colon and I still won't give a shit. Given my own beliefs, neither he nor any of the fundie fuckwits that are probably even now calling him a martyr would hesitate to leave my head laying in the sand, so why should I care about his sudden case of high-velocity lead poisoning?


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



CAThulu said:


> yeah, but they probably didn't die on the same day as Hitler, and weren't as globally hated.
> 
> Really, I know all you guys can't stand Rukh, but he's just pointing out a coincidence.  Leave him alone.


 
That's just it though. It's just a coincidence. It has no implications and doesn't demand being discussed as if it's an actual point.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> There is the morally important difference in your situations, sir. One chooses death, *the other has his life deprived of him against his will*. THINK. PLEASE ATTEMPT TO THINK.



After he deprived so many of their life?  *Shakes head*  Hun, he was a bad, bad man.  And like any bad man, he needed to be dealt with.  Some will agree to go quietly, some will stand in defiance to the death.  You can rally all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he died the way he lived, violently.  He got exactly what he deserved, end of story.


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Exunod said:


> That's just it though. It's just a coincidence. It has no implications and doesn't demand being discussed as if it's an actual point.



So stop discussing it.  *shrugs*


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> Nothing does. There is no justifying killing a man. Why do you so desperately seek out a means of justifying death?



This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live? What has he done that has affected our world positively? 

Anyways, I'll be happily celebrating with friends tomorrow like the evil patriotic barbarian I am :3 



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Hey interesting fact time: May 1st 1945, Adolf Hitler was announced dead.
> 
> May 1st 2011, Osama Bin Laden announced dead.


 
Holy shit I looked that up to confirm it. 

That is true o.o


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

Now that i think about it is it okay to celebrate the death of a human being?


----------



## CAThulu (May 2, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> Sorry, but while I have nothing but respect  for other people's beliefs, that respect stops when they believe in  wholesale slaughter in the name of their "god". That man had the blood  of thousands on his hands, so as far as I'm concerned he can rot for  eternity in the devil's colon and I still won't give a shit. Given my  own beliefs, neither he nor any of the fundie fuckwits that are probably  even now calling him a martyr would hesitate to leave my head laying in  the sand, so why should I care about his sudden case of high-velocity  lead poisoning?



Ahh...logic.   THANK you! ^_^


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> People should not be "glad" that he's dead, we should not  be deriving pleasure from the death of another human being.



This message is lost through dehumanization.  A man is dead, his corpse held up as a bogeyman as if his death could raise the thousands killed at his order back to life, and we are meant to celebrate the denial of life as if that raising of the dead is exactly what happened.  Thus have we become the real monsters, identical in every way to the imaginary monster we mock.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Him being alive wouldn't count for anything more than when Sadam was caught alive.  Eventually, we would have killed him.
> 
> Now, just my opinion on the matter here:
> 
> ...


 
Absolutely yes.  This is exactly how I feel about this event.  I'm not throwing a party because I'm so happy that Osama is dead, I'm relieved that justice has been served.  So many people have been traumatized by the events of 9/11.  It's not just the fact that he destroyed the Twin Towers, or that he murdered thousands of people, but he did it in such a dramatic way as to scare and demoralize the country.  He really did create terror in his name, and the world is a slightly more peaceful place without him.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Ugh, there has been a constant stream of assholes on TV who are all like "HES BURNIN IN HELL". Shut the fuck up. Shut up. You are the reason nobody has respect for Christianity. Or America, for that matter.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Azure said:


> Those who shake the tree are often laid low by falling coconuts. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. Self fulfilling martyrs suck.



Some people have the same compulsion to reject and resist violence and the denial of common decency that others do to encourage and reward them. Yeah, it does suck, because those of us who are like that mostly can realize at least on an intellectual level, indeed, it would be easier to reject everything good and decent and relish in hate, fear and violence. But as someone who's tried it, you might as well ask people like us to breathe on the moon. However...



Deo said:


> Even though it may be hard it's worth it in the end. I encourage you all to speak publicly against dehumanizing, relishing in revenge, and violence. You don't have to, but your opinions and your voices matter.


 
... Yeah, the last do-gooding, longhaired adoptee to try that was born and died trying, and all he got for his efforts was grief, death, and a cult that turned the instrument of his death into a symbol of exaltation that's truly only warranted _maybe_ for something like the Ankh. Yeah, sorry, I need some examples of people like that who _don't_ get crucified, burned at the stake or shot inside their limousine or outside their apartment complex before I'm very enthusiastic about trying to be some kind of advocate for any good cause anywhere it matters...



Exunod said:


> In b4 wooby starts ranting about slave--
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck.


 
I know, right? It's so fucked up that I just, I don't know, smoke pot, play videogames, listen to 90's rap music and hair metal _only_ 23 hrs out of the day. That extra hour where I'm actually giving a fuck is a real bummer.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Now that i think about it is it okay to celebrate the death of a human being?


 
Celebrate the fact that Osama can't harm anyone else. That is worth celebrating. Not in the death, but in the lives that were saved because Osama is gone.


----------



## Zaraphayx (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> This message is lost through dehumanization.  A man is dead, his corpse held up as a bogeyman as if his death could raise the thousands killed at his order back to life, and we are meant to celebrate the denial of life as if that raising of the dead is exactly what happened.  Thus have we become the real monsters, identical in every way to the imaginary monster we mock.


 
That was pretty what I was thinking as I watched people scream "AMERICA FUCK YEAH" into news cameras.

And that one was one impressively spaced double post.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Wolf-Bone said:


> I know, right? It's so fucked up that I just, I don't know, smoke pot, play videogames, listen to 90's rap music and hair metal _only_ 23 hrs out of the day. That extra hour where I'm actually giving a fuck is a real bummer.



What planet are you from where you think people laugh at you because you _care?
_


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

CAThulu said:


> After he deprived so many of their life?  *Shakes head*  Hun, he was a bad, bad man.  And like any bad man, he needed to be dealt with.  Some will agree to go quietly, some will stand in defiance to the death.  You can rally all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he died the way he lived, violently.  He got exactly what he deserved, end of story.


 I cannot agree to that. I am sorry, but in absolute honesty I confess that I cannot possibly defend, condone, or accept the idea that death was "deserved" or the best thing in these circumstances. The most realistic, sure, but not the best. Not the best at all.
And we can rave about how evil he is, but genuinely he is still human, no human _deserves _death. I apologize that I am unable to compromise on this objective moral fact. Though we mete out death as a punishment it is still inherently and morally wrong to kill another person. Yes they killed "us" and "we" killed "them", but in the end it's just people killing people and we shouldn't. I swaer to whatever god or moral tenets you hold, we should not be killing other people.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> This message is lost through dehumanization.  A man is dead, his corpse held up as a bogeyman as if his death could raise the thousands killed at his order back to life, and we are meant to celebrate the denial of life as if that raising of the dead is exactly what happened.  Thus have we become the real monsters, identical in every way to the imaginary monster we mock.


 I am so saddened that this is so true of human nature. The actions of my peers outside and the arguments about the "human"-ness of "evil" peoples is absolutely sickening to me. I am so completely despondent about such a mentality. I don't even know.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Exunod said:


> What planet are you from where you think people laugh at you because you _care?
> _


 
The one where they only seem to laugh _in a bad way_ when I actually care. Y'know, it's really sad how fucking predictable a thread about bin Laden's death goes. I saw this coming like pretty much the day after 9/11. He'd eventually be found, most likely be killed, and whatever douchebag forum I'd be wasting valuable time and herb on would talk about the fucking subject for all of 15 minutes tops before they'd focus their thoughts/energy on saying who they really hate more than the man himself - each other.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live? What has he done that has affected our world positively?
> 
> Anyways, I'll be happily celebrating with friends tomorrow like the evil patriotic barbarian I am :3



He deserved to live because he has a right to. Y'know, that whole "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" deal



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Celebrate the fact that Osama can't harm anyone else. That is worth celebrating. Not in the death, but in the lives that were saved because Osama is gone.


 
Was he really harming anyone? He was an old man hiding in a cave. If anything, terrorists will be even more pissed off that we killed their icon and cause even more violence.

Also your sig about being crucified scares the shit out of me.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live?


No. Don't shift this onto me. Defend your own views. WHY does he deserve to die? I asked you first, and there should be no need to prove to you that people deserve to live. If your revenge and hatred is that great that you are willing to forgo basic tenets of morality (such as people have a right to live) than you need to stop and re-assess yourself. You are in a very very dark state of mind.


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Wolf-Bone said:


> The one where they only seem to laugh _in a bad way_ when I actually care. Y'know, it's really sad how fucking predictable a thread about bin Laden's death goes. I saw this coming like pretty much the day after 9/11. He'd eventually be found, most likely be killed, and whatever douchebag forum I'd be wasting valuable time and herb on would talk about the fucking subject for all of 15 minutes tops before they'd focus their thoughts/energy on saying who they really hate more than the man himself - each other.


 
This. Can't THIS this enough. It's like reverse evolution. Everything in a thread like this turns to fuck.


----------



## moonchylde (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> He deserved to live because he has a right to. Y'know, that whole "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" deal.


 
Funny, considering the fact that by his own words and actions, he proved that he was against those things for pretty much everyone else. Besides, that's an American thing, and we're the "Great Satan", remember?


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> He deserved to live because he has a right to. Y'know, that whole "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" deal.


 
You do realize that only really applies to American citizens right?

Not being all "FUCK YEAH AMERICA", but that's a distinctly American concept that is perpetuated by the government because they mandate it so.  Other governments really don't.  Bin Laden certainly wasn't living within our jurisdiction whilst in either Afghanistan or Pakistan.


----------



## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

Has Trump asked for a Certificate of Death yet?


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Wolf-Bone said:


> The one where they only seem to laugh _in a bad way_ when I actually care. Y'know, it's really sad how fucking predictable a thread about bin Laden's death goes. I saw this coming like pretty much the day after 9/11. He'd eventually be found, most likely be killed, and whatever douchebag forum I'd be wasting valuable time and herb on would talk about the fucking subject for all of 15 minutes tops before they'd focus their thoughts/energy on saying who they really hate more than the man himself - each other.


 I dunno. FAF's never killed my buzz. Then again, it is the good shit. But yeah, this is the only way it was gonna go down.


----------



## Molotov (May 2, 2011)

If there is one thing I am glad for, it is that the neighbors have stopped popping their fireworks and stopped cheering in celebration outside their homes. Wish the helicopter(s) would land already, that would be perfect for me to get my good sleep for tomorrow morning.

A lot of stuff to do. Good night.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



moonchylde said:


> Funny, considering the fact that by his own words and actions, he proved that he was against those things for pretty much everyone else. Besides, that's an American thing, and we're the "Great Satan", remember?


 And we are incapable of rising above that? Goddamn.


----------



## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> This man has done so many terrible things on a global scale. Why do you think he deserves to live? What has he done that has affected our world positively?


 
He helped put quite a lot of nutrients back in to US soil. That's good for all the graveyard plants. How can he be bad if he liked flowers?


----------



## Ilayas (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Term_the_Schmuck said:


> You do realize that only really applies to American citizens right?
> 
> Not being all "FUCK YEAH AMERICA", but that's a distinctly American concept that is perpetuated by the government because they mandate it so.  Other governments really don't.  Bin Laden certainly wasn't living within our jurisdiction whilst in either Afghanistan or Pakistan.


 
This is a poor argument against icky's coment.   A much better argument is that we deprive our own citizens of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness all the time when they break our laws and then are punished for them.  In some states we even kill our own citizens for their crimes.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Smelge said:


> He helped put quite a lot of nutrients back in to US soil. That's good for all the graveyard plants.


 
Honestly, I wish I could see it like that. That's so fucking zen, hahahaha.


----------



## 8-bit (May 2, 2011)

I stopped caring about finding him years ago.

But was it really worth it? Not talking about morally, but all that money that was blindly throw at any hint of catching Osama.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Celebrate the fact that Osama can't harm anyone else. That is worth celebrating. Not in the death, but in the lives that were saved because Osama is gone.



That same excuse has been used by armies and militias who pillage and annihilate  people to "protect their own." Because we're extremely ignorant beings, and to say otherwise is even more ignorant, our judgment is inferior.  



Deo said:


> I cannot agree to that. I am sorry, but in absolute  honesty I confess that I cannot possibly defend, condone, or accept the  idea that death was "deserved" or the best thing in these circumstances.  The most realistic, sure, but not the best. Not the best at all.
> And  we can rave about how evil he is, but genuinely he is still human, no  human _deserves _death. I apologize that I am unable to compromise  on this objective moral fact. Though we mete out death as a punishment  it is still inherently and morally wrong to kill another person. Yes  they killed "us" and "we" killed "them", but in the end it's just people  killing people and we shouldn't. I swaer to whatever god or moral  tenets you hold, we should not be killing other people.


 
 I'm finding myself agreeing with Deo. Who are we to judge our fellow  man? Because we think we have superior judgment? Violence begets  violence. People are saying "it's different." No it's not. And this board proves it. I don't' know how many people on here have used petty excuses to justify killing someone else.


----------



## JadeFire (May 2, 2011)

8-bit said:


> I stopped caring about finding him years ago.
> 
> But was it really worth it? Not talking about morally, but all that money that was blindly throw at any hint of catching Osama.


 It's better we wasted the money and got him then having wasted then not.


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> No. Don't shift this onto me. Defend your own views. WHY does he deserve to die?


 
Have you not read any of my posts? He's responsible for the deaths of thousands, he is responsible for a whole bunch of terrorist attacks launched not just here, but all across the world. He's responsible for the attack that ignited this entire war, and gloated about his attacks for years. How many times do I have to say this to you? 

I already answered your question like three times now. Now answer mine, why should we keep him alive, other than to gather intelligence?


----------



## moonchylde (May 2, 2011)

Respect, in my eyes, is earned, not given. The man has done nothing to gain my respect, and much to gain my contempt. I'm sorry we can't agree on this subject, but there's nothing you can say that will convince me that he got any less then he deserved, and vice versa.

I'm going to bed now... this thread has already caused me to "this" a Ruhk post, which means I need to get away before the universe implodes.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Ilayas said:


> This is a poor argument against icky's coment.   A much better argument is that we deprive our own citizens of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness all the time when they break our laws and then are punished for them.  In some states we even kill our own citizens for their crimes.


 
It's really not considering the ideological values placed upon what we as American citizens hold dear to us and what was perpetuated by al-Qaeda and anti-Western countries.  al-Qaeda and its members themselves don't believe or would even begin to give "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" the time of day because the only thing that matters to them is killing infidels in the name of Allah, and death to anyone who doesn't conform to the will of the theocratic rule of their sect of Islam.


----------



## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Exunod said:


> Honestly, I wish I could see it like that. That's so fucking zen, hahahaha.


 
Circle of life, my friend.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Term_the_Schmuck said:


> You do realize that only really applies to American citizens right?
> 
> Not being all "FUCK YEAH AMERICA", but that's a distinctly American concept that is perpetuated by the government because they mandate it so.  Other governments really don't.  Bin Laden certainly wasn't living within our jurisdiction whilst in either Afghanistan or Pakistan.


 
No. According to Locke, who we all know came up with that concept, they were the three universal rights. They applied to any man, not just the good guys.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> No. According to Locke, who we all know came up with that concept, they were the three universal rights. They applied to any man, not just the good guys.


 In reality, nobody but people with money to back their shit up have them.


----------



## Jesie (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> And we are incapable of rising above that? Goddamn.


 
No. When you boil it down we're all angry apes, nothing more.

Also, I was in school when this happened. THAT WAS A LONG ASS TIME AGO.

_It's called a quip, Not a slooooope._


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> Have you not read any of my posts? He's responsible for the deaths of thousands, he is responsible for a whole bunch of terrorist attacks launched not just here, but all across the world. He's responsible for the attack that ignited this entire war, and gloated about his attacks for years. How many times do I have to say this to you?
> 
> I already answered your question like three times now. Now answer mine, why should we keep him alive, other than to gather intelligence?


 We should keep him alive because it is wrong to kill him. How do I explain such a fundemental pillar of morality? If you don't already understand it and the concepts derived from it? 

In it's most basic form it is wrong to kill people, and no one deserves death. There is no justifying shooting a man in the head. No matter his actions, there is no justifying further violence.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

8-bit said:


> I stopped caring about finding him years ago.
> 
> But was it really worth it? Not talking about morally, but all that money that was blindly throw at any hint of catching Osama.


 
Honestly, I don't think so.  I was so disappointed when a US soldier had Osama in his sights and was told to hold his fire.  He could've ended it there, years ago.  I don't remember how long ago it was, but I believe it has been more than two years, which would have saved a lot of time and money.  Not that the work is done...the Al Qaida still exists and remains to be disassembled.


----------



## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

Are there any actual links between Bin Laden and 9/11 other than him gloating a bit about it and claiming responsibility? It's still not even clear that things happened how they say it did. There are pictures and eyewitness reports that conclusively prove there were no planes that day. How can he be responsible when his version of events doesn't match up with the reality?


----------



## Delta (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No.
> We do not dehumanize. When people demonize and dehumanize each other it ends in more bloodshed. Everyone is a person, everyone has basic human rights. It is childish to pretend that he is a monster in order to defend our sick glorification of his death.


 
Thanks mom.
This would have been useful a couple hundred thousand years ago.
Your message comes far too late, Deo.


----------



## Ilayas (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Term_the_Schmuck said:


> It's really not considering the ideological values placed upon what we as American citizens hold dear to us and what was perpetuated by al-Qaeda and anti-Western countries.  al-Qaeda and its members themselves don't believe or would even begin to give "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" the time of day because the only thing that matters to them is killing infidels in the name of Allah, and death to anyone who doesn't conform to the will of the theocratic rule of their sect of Islam.


 
Just because some one has a different belief system and or lives in a different country does not give Americans free reign to do what ever they want to them because they are not American and do not share our beliefs. Which unless I am not understanding your statement seems to be what you are saying.  If you wish to believe that a terrorist should be killed because of their actions that is a different matter.  But justify doing harm because they believe something different then you and live in a different country then you is a very poor argument.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> No. According to Locke, who we all know came up with that concept, they were the three universal rights. They applied to any man, not just the good guys.


 
And as I mentioned above, a philosophical idea that meant jack and shit to Bin Laden and his constituents.

Locke's ideas are great when people take them into consideration.  The problem is they don't exactly come up once you start heading further into the Middle East.  In an ideal world, Locke's ideas would be universal truth.  But try walking down the street in Iran for example, waving to a group of heavily armed men holding the hand of your same-sex partner and tell me how much Locke's concepts apply there.

Rights only really exist when they are agreed upon is what I'm getting at.  But this is kinda straying from the matter at hand.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> He's responsible for the deaths of thousands, he is responsible for a whole bunch of terrorist attacks launched not just here, but all across the world. He's responsible for the attack that ignited this entire war, and gloated about his attacks for years.



For that, he and his organization need to be stopped and brought to justice.  No one is denying that, even though his death is a consequence of that.

But he deserved it?  He deserved nothing short of death?  That any man should wish to deprive another man the gift of life because he thinks the other deserves it, for any reason whatsoever, makes the one just as evil.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> No. According to Locke, who we all know came up with that concept, they were the three universal rights. They applied to any man, not just the good guys.


 Universal, inalienable, fundamental, irrevocable human rights. No matter what nationality, religion, race, gender, or personal actions. Basic human rights are not dependent on such things, they exist beyond that and apply to all people, no matter the circumstances.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> We should keep him alive because it is wrong to kill him. How do I explain such a fundemental pillar of morality? If you don't already understand it and the concepts derived from it?
> 
> In it's most basic form it is wrong to kill people, and no one deserves death. There is no justifying shooting a man in the head. No matter his actions, there is no justifying further violence.


 
Deo, if you have the choice to kill a person to protect either yourself or a person he/she is about to kill what do you do? Do you not shoot the person and then allow yourself to be killed or the person the person is about to kill....or do you shoot the would be murdered in the head to protect yourself or others?


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Ilayas said:


> Just because some one has a different belief system and or lives in a different country does not give Americans free reign to do what ever they want to them because they are not American and do not share our beliefs. Which unless I am not understanding your statement seems to be what you are saying.  If you wish to believe that a terrorist should be killed because of their actions that is a different matter.  But justify doing harm because they believe something different then you and live in a different country then you is a very poor argument.


 
Not saying it does.  But to claim that those ideological concepts apply to people, organizations, or countries that clearly don't take seriously, or even condemn that kind of talk, means we can't seriously apply our values to these people.  They live outside our normal realm of thinking, and the only life, liberty, and happiness they pursue comes at the direct result of the destruction of others abilities to do those same three things.  

When your life is devoted to killing people to liberate them from their mortal coil as infidels in the pursuit of happiness you'll receive from the 72 virgins you've been promised for convincing young men hijack and fly a plane into a building or strap a bomb to yourself and detonate in a highly populated area, you're really stretching Locke's ideas.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Winds said:


> Thanks mom.
> This would have been useful a couple hundred thousand years ago.
> Your message comes far too late, Deo.


 
When do we start?  If they're good words, then when do we start upholding and sharing them, and in whose hearts do they first take root?


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Term_the_Schmuck said:


> And as I mentioned above, a philosophical idea that meant jack and shit to Bin Laden and his constituents.
> 
> Locke's ideas are great when people take them into consideration.  The problem is they don't exactly come up once you start heading further into the Middle East.  In an ideal world, Locke's ideas would be universal truth.  But try walking down the street in Iran for example, waving to a group of heavily armed men holding the hand of your same-sex partner and tell me how much Locke's concepts apply there.
> 
> Rights only really exist when they are agreed upon is what I'm getting at.  But this is kinda straying from the matter at hand.


 
well i guess i won't be taking my same-sex partner to Iran anytime soon

holy fuck, 44 members browsing.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



ArielMT said:


> For that, he and his organization need to be stopped and brought to justice.  No one is denying that, even though his death is a consequence of that.
> 
> But he deserved it?  He deserved nothing short of death?  That any man should wish to deprive another man the gift of life because he thinks the other deserves it, for any reason whatsoever, makes the one just as evil.


 Goddamn you are full of good posts today.



ArielMT said:


> When do we start?  If they're good words, then  when do we start upholding and sharing them, and in whose hearts do they  first take root?


 DOUBLE GODDAMN WONDERFUL


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

Welcome to FAF, where every thread becomes a moral debate. Even that rave about your kitten will soon become a debate about the morality of the color of the blanket it's laying on.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> Deo, if you have the choice to kill a person to protect either yourself or a person he/she is about to kill what do you do? Do you not shoot the person and then allow yourself to be killed or the person the person is about to kill....or do you shoot the would be murdered in the head to protect yourself or others?


 But this assumes that Osama was still a threat to lives. He was a dying man living in caves cut off from his wealth, family, and of no power or influence in Al Qaida. Killing him was an act of revenge moreso than an act of defense.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> well i guess i won't be taking my same-sex partner to Iran anytime soon
> 
> holy fuck, 44 members browsing.


 
Hypothetically speaking of course.

And yeah, most active I've seen a thread outside a Skittle TG thread.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



ArielMT said:


> For that, he and his organization need to be stopped and brought to justice.  No one is denying that, even though his death is a consequence of that.
> 
> But he deserved it?  He deserved nothing short of death?  That any man should wish to deprive another man the gift of life because he thinks the other deserves it, for any reason whatsoever, makes the one just as evil.


What kind of justice?


----------



## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

I am pretty sure Bin Laden and his followers thought they were the good guys, and America was evil. He wasn't Cobra Commander.

But whatever. History is written by the victors.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

There is always that big baddie who needs to die or else other people will die. Bin Laden is a good example. But then it get philosophical. If I don't give someone a ride and they are walking in the rain and die of pneumonia, am I not responsible for that persons' death? Because my inaction caused a death, should I be killed. Some would argue yes. So in the end, what makes our opinion so special?


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

Hey guys, apparently Osama was just in a tinychat room with David M. 

Huh.


----------



## Kommodore (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> Universal, inalienable, fundamental, irrevocable human rights. No matter what nationality, religion, race, gender, or personal actions. Basic human rights are not dependent on such things, they exist beyond that and apply to all people, no matter the circumstances.



Basic human rights exist only in the heads of humans. And in the head of any sane human, Osama's death was a good thing. In my view he was a terrible person who did great harm to the world and the only bad thing about his death is that it did not come sooner. Killing is objectively neither good nor bad, but with my bias his death was great.


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> We should keep him alive because it is wrong to kill him. How do I explain such a fundemental pillar of morality? If you don't already understand it and the concepts derived from it?
> 
> In it's most basic form it is wrong to kill people, and no one deserves death. There is no justifying shooting a man in the head. No matter his actions, there is no justifying further violence.


 
Meh, I accept that there's no way I'll change your mind. But you know, sometimes justice has to be done with death, it's a fact, that's how life works. If we just jailed him people like Osama will continue to kill and terrorize people, thinking that, worst case scenario they will simply be jailed for life.


----------



## The_Unknowin (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Seriously?  No, fuck you. People should not be "glad" that he's dead, we should not  be deriving pleasure from the death of another human being.


 
Your right I was out of line but the man is evil maybe not when he dyed but we can not forget what he did. I agree he shod not have been killed for revenge. He was killed in cold blood and that dose not show Americas belief in justice and a fear trial I think he shod of taken him alive and for him to live the rest of his days in prison, his belief's are that when he dyes he will get rewarded so relay they gave him what he wants so I guess they failed in there gaol. You must agree that the world is safer now that he's gone


----------



## 8-bit (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> But this assumes that Osama was still a threat to lives. He was a dying man living in caves cut off from his wealth, family, and of no power or influence in Al Qaida. Killing him was an act of revenge moreso than an act of defense.


 
This blew my perspective.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> What kind of justice?


 
Ideally, due process before an appropriate court, even if it's one with which I personally disagree.  However, killed in self-defense during an attempt to arrest him seems to work even better.  But nationwide celebration of his death as if it was Independence Day already isn't anywhere near the kind of justice I had in mind.


----------



## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Kommodore said:


> Basic human rights exist only in the heads of humans, and in the head of any sane human. Celebrating Osama's death is a _clearly a bad_ thing.


 
I fixed that for you. It kinda tumbled on itself right off the second sentence as it was.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Kommodore said:


> Killing is objectively neither good nor bad


 No, killing is very bad. It's not "oh killing a person isn't good or bad", it's bad. 
WTF FAF, your morals are shit. And I wish I was better and more studied in moral theory and ethics to help you all through this twisted mentality of justifying, validating, and condoning killing.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> Deo, if you have the choice to kill a person to protect either yourself or a person he/she is about to kill what do you do? Do you not shoot the person and then allow yourself to be killed or the person the person is about to kill....or do you shoot the would be murdered in the head to protect yourself or others?


 
Ever since I have adopted anarcho-pacifism, I have had this scenario run through my head about five times a week. To tell you the truth, I think I would do it to save a life. Good thing I acknowledge I'm not perfect.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> Meh, I accept that there's no way I'll change your mind. But you know, sometimes justice has to be done with death, it's a fact, that's how life works. If we just jailed him people like Osama will continue to kill and terrorize people, thinking that, worst case scenario they will simply be jailed for life.


 
You think they care? You think, now that we killed him, the terrorists will be thinking "oh man we better stop or the Americans are gonna come shoot us"?


----------



## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

Icky said:


> Hey guys, apparently Osama was just in a tinychat room with David M.
> 
> Huh.


 He accidentally put his address while registering.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> But this assumes that Osama was still a threat to lives. He was a dying man living in caves cut off from his wealth, family, and of no power or influence in Al Qaida. Killing him was an act of revenge moreso than an act of defense.


 
Deo, deo, deo answer the simple question. This isn't implying anything about Osama or that entire thing. This is me trying to understand to what extent you apply what you are saying.

If you were to go out tomorrow with some friends, and someone is about to actually kill one of them, and you have the choice to kill the would be murderer, or just watch your friend die...what are you going to do? I'm just making sure you're not pushing your ideas to the point of absurd pussyfist idealism where you should always be a push over when it comes to kill or be killed.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> No, killing is very bad. It's not "oh killing a person isn't good or bad", it's bad.
> WTF FAF, your morals are shit. And I wish I was better and more studied in moral theory and ethics to help you all through this twisted mentality of justifying, validating, and condoning killing.


 
Deo, what did you think of my 'rules' for using lethal violence as a means of communication?


----------



## Kommodore (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> WTF FAF, your morals are shit. And I wish I was better and more studied in moral theory and ethics to help you all through this twisted mentality of justifying, validating, and condoning killing.


 
Well, whatever floats your boat I guess. 

You'll see the light eventually.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> Ideally


 And ain't that a bugger. When it comes down to it, yeah, nobody "deserves" to die. At least, not according to nature. According to man, however, is the only thing that holds sway anymore, and while I'm not an advocate of violence, I don't think these fine folks will come along like right smart gentleman. At that point, the point in which they attempt to deprive the appointed agents of whatever justice is in this war of their lives, that's where the crux of killing lies. In the field, in the hands of the soldier. And I'll never blame him for making the shot that saves his life. And anyone who thinks Osama didn't defend himself, think again. If he were alive, he'd still be spitting in the faces of his captors. He's not some civilian who was slipped a couple benjamins to dig a hole next to the road at night who goes home to his family, his fortune, his livelihood, his ambitions, were all tied up in this.


----------



## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Kommodore said:


> Well, whatever floats your boat I guess.
> 
> You'll see the light eventually.


 
Muzzle flash? Or do you actually mean 'killing others' = 'the light' in some clearly general way?


----------



## Ilayas (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Not saying it does.  But to claim that those ideological concepts apply to people, organizations, or countries that clearly don't take seriously, or even condemn that kind of talk, means we can't seriously apply our values to these people.  They live outside our normal realm of thinking, and the only life, liberty, and happiness they pursue comes at the direct result of the destruction of others abilities to do those same three things.
> 
> When you're life is devoted to killing people to liberate them from their mortal coil as infidels in the pursuit of happiness you'll receive from the 72 virgins you've been promised for convincing young men hijack and fly a plane into a building or strap a bomb to yourself and detonate in a highly populated area, you're really stretching Locke's ideas.



If there is any great evil in this world it is the de-humanization of our fellow humans.  Everything that is wrong with this world starts when someone believes that part of humanity are less human then they are.  Osama Bin Laden and his followers did this.  He believed that some humans were less human then others so there was nothing wrong with him killing them because he wasn't killing his fellow humans he was killing something less then human. It frightens me that you believe that there are humans out there that are less human then you are because that's the first step one needs to take to justify doing horrible things.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

Well this was a fun thread. I don't think we had this much traffic on one since that furry girl went on that whatever show.


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> You think they care? You think, now that we killed him, the terrorists will be thinking "oh man we better stop or the Americans are gonna come shoot us"?


 
They probably do care now that we have killed him. We got their leader, the very mastermind who has been orchestrating terrorist attacks against us and other nations for years, it's a great loss on their side. Weather they are worried, or pissed, I don't know.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> Meh, I accept that there's no way I'll change your mind. But you know, sometimes justice has to be done with death, it's a fact, that's how life works.


 NO it is not a fact. There is no reason that we have to, or must kill to mete out justice. there is no thing that forces us to kill as a means of social/moral punishment. In the past we have used death as justice, but this is flawed. So saying "that's how life works" is playing into the apathy of allowing past brutality to continue. I cannot stand by and simply shrug my shoulders and say, "Well they did it before and they'll do it again, why bother?" We have a responsibility to uphold moral values. Do not let yourself sink into such apathy, steel yourself and your morals. Come now, think. Just because morality is not easy does not mean we should not strive to it. Just because we failed at being moral and revenge seeking in our justice in the past does not validate us being immoral in the future.



> If we just jailed him people like Osama will continue to kill and  terrorize people, thinking that, worst case scenario they will simply be  jailed for life.


Irrelevant. 
If we jailed him people would continue to kill and terrorize.
If we killed him like we did people will continue to kill and terrorize.
Osama's punishment has no real effect on terrorists. They will continue doing what they are doing.


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

Right now I'm taking a course in sociology. Problem with Society. This... all of this reminds me of the kinds of discussions we had in the, -59 intelligence and +9001 rage. There's a few good arguments here, but it's getting rather... arbitrary. 

*yawns* I'm going to bed, FUCK YEA AMERICA ruckus be damned.


----------



## InflatedSnake (May 2, 2011)

I've all ways been very negative America, for multiple reasons.
Today I can feel that America has started to redeem itself in my eyes.

For today, and today only:
I'm proud of you America.


----------



## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> They probably do care now that we have killed him. We got their ex-leader, the very mastermind who has had nothing to do with orchestrating terrorist attacks against us and other nations for years.


 
Fixed that for ya.


----------



## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> NO it is not a fact. There is no reason that we have to, or must kill to mete out justice. there is no thing that forces us to kill as a means of social/moral punishment. In the past we have used death as justice, but this is flawed.


 
Unless it's a wasp. Fuckers need to die.

[edit]Whoop! whoop! Doublepost!


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> They probably do care now that we have killed him. We got their leader, the very mastermind who has been orchestrating terrorist attacks against us and other nations for years, it's a great loss on their side. Weather they are worried, or pissed, I don't know.


 
Again, not that huge of a loss. He wasn't doing anything but taunting rednecks by staying hidden and alive; the power has moved on.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> Deo, deo, deo answer the simple question. This isn't implying anything about Osama or that entire thing. This is me trying to understand to what extent you apply what you are saying.
> 
> If you were to go out tomorrow with some friends, and someone is about to actually kill one of them, and you have the choice to kill the would be murderer, or just watch your friend die...what are you going to do? I'm just making sure you're not pushing your ideas to the point of absurd pussyfist idealism where you should always be a push over when it comes to kill or be killed.


I would kill them. I'd hate myself for it though. I truly would not be able to live with the idea of killing another human being. I cannot bring myself to make that right. I would defend my friend, with deathly force if necessary, but it would surely be the end of me mentally/emotionally.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Smelge said:


> Unless it's a wasp. Fuckers need to die.
> 
> [edit]Whoop! whoop! Doublepost!


 
I concede.


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> I would kill them. I'd hate myself for it though. I truly would not be able to live with the idea of killing another human being. I cannot brign myself to make that right. I would defend my friend, but it would surely be the end of me.


 
Alright, that's all I want to know.


----------



## RedSavage (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Trpdwarf said:


> Alright, that's all I want to know.


 
You must feel so accomplished right now. :V

(inb4 contradictions forgot about homework)


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Well this was a fun thread. I don't think we had this much traffic on one since that furry girl went on that whatever show.


 
I haven't seen a thread with this many members and so few guests in more than a year.


----------



## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> I concede.


 
Silly insect, you don't get human rights. Just like the Lithuanians.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Deo, you ought to read these books

Here

and here

You might find them pertinent on many many levels. And particularly related to the morality issues of which you speak.


----------



## Scotty (May 2, 2011)

Ok I'm going to bed now. I seen what I was waiting for. lol. Night Ya'll.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> They probably do care now that we have killed him. We got their leader, the very mastermind who has been orchestrating terrorist attacks against us and other nations for years, it's a great loss on their side. Weather they are worried, or pissed, I don't know.


 WE'VE BEEN SHOOTING AT THEM FOR OVER A DECADE AND BOMBING THEM, AND RANSACKING THEIR HOMELAND AND KILLING CIVILIANS.
The death of Osama is a small thing in comparison. Your information is wrong. They don't have any real ties to Osama, and have not for years. His family cut him off, his wealth was deprived of him, and with his wealth and his health gone his power and influence declined. 
He was currently next to harmless. 
A trophy kill.


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> NO it is not a fact. There is no reason that we have to, or must kill to mete out justice. there is no thing that forces us to kill as a means of social/moral punishment.


 
Alright then, what if someone's robbing you, what if someone's trying to kill you or someone else? Should you just sit there and do nothing? Face it, sometimes, death is justified for those people out there who have done some genuinely horrible things against other human beings. 



Deo said:


> Irrelevant.
> If we jailed him people would continue to kill and terrorize.
> If we killed him like we did people will continue to kill and terrorize.
> Osama's punishment has no real effect on terrorists. They will continue doing what they are doing.



Good point. But the difference is he didn't get away with his crime. His death is in the books now, he is an example to those who would consider fucking with America/our other allied countries.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Deo, you ought to read these books
> 
> Here
> 
> ...


Thank you. I will read them this summer.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

Scotty said:


> Ok I'm going to bed now. I seen what I was waiting for. lol. Night Ya'll.


 
Uh. Bye.


----------



## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



ArielMT said:


> I haven't seen a thread with this many members and so few guests in more than a year.


 
The day FAF went down for a couple of hours a month ago had triple this amount.

I'm pretty damn sure if FAF went down this thread would just disappear.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> Alright then, what if someone's robbing you, what if someone's trying to kill you or someone else? Should you just sit there and do nothing? Face it, sometimes, death is justified for those people out there who have done some genuinely horrible things against other human beings.


 


Deo said:


> I would kill them. I'd hate myself for it though. I truly would not be able to live with the idea of killing another human being. I cannot bring myself to make that right. I would defend my friend, with deathly force if necessary, but it would surely be the end of me mentally/emotionally.



Reading Comprehension- *F*


----------



## Trpdwarf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



CoyoteCaliente said:


> You must feel so accomplished right now. :V
> 
> (inb4 contradictions forgot about homework)


 
All I can say is wut?


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> Alright then, what if someone's robbing you, what if someone's trying to kill you or someone else? Should you just sit there and do nothing? Face it, sometimes, death is justified for those people out there who have done some genuinely horrible things against other human beings.


 Between my own life and another's I would concede my own life. I'd fight and try to avoid it, and run like hell, or something, but honestly I don't think I have it in me to kill another person. Maybe to defend a friend or another person, but as I said above it would be my own downfall. I would never be able to reconcile the blood on my hands.
I stand by that death is not justified.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Lurking members, speak up, please. I want to know your thoughts.


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> WE'VE BEEN SHOOTING AT THEM FOR OVER A DECADE AND BOMBING THEM, AND RANSACKING THEIR HOMELAND AND KILLING CIVILIANS.
> The death of Osama is a small thing in comparison. Your information is wrong. They don't have any real ties to Osama, and have not for years. His family cut him off, his wealth was deprived of him, and with his wealth and his health gone his power and influence declined.
> He was currently next to harmless.
> A trophy kill.


 
Really? Then how come there was a firefight pre-ceding his death? If he was just some lone man in a cave, we would've probably captured him like we did Saddam.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Ilayas said:


> If there is any great evil in this world it is the de-humanization of our fellow humans.  Everything that is wrong with this world starts when someone believes that part of humanity are less human then they are.  Osama Bin Laden and his followers did this.  He believed that some humans were less human then others so there was nothing wrong with him killing them because he wasn't killing his fellow humans he was killing something less then human. It frightens me that you believe that there are humans out there that are less human then you are because that's the first step one needs to take to justify doing horrible things.


 
There's no dehumanizing about what I said.  They have a different line of thinking based on opinions ideology that are directly in conflict with what's accepted in the West.  It just so happens that their line of thinking involves the senseless murder and mass-killing of innocent people to appease their god.

This is not painting Bin Laden or his constituents in a false light.  This is exactly what they believe and holds no room for the concepts presented by men like Locke because those ideas breed revolution from the oppressive life they want to instill and hold amongst the "true believers".

If anything, I'd say that they certainly hold a much bleaker view on what constitutes the morals and ethics surrounding murdering other human beings than what other members have been arguing for, and as it seems so far they can't exactly be easily reasoned with.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> Really? Then how come there was a firefight pre-ceding his death? If he was just some lone man in a cave, we would've probably captured him like we did Saddam.


 
Okay, now you're grasping at goddamned straws. Are we done here?


----------



## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

I'm not disappointed in America that Bin Laden was killed, really. It seemed a likely outcome for when they'd find him. I'm neutral about that, possibly even a bit pro- that. I don't have any expectations on how US military should have handled it better.

However, it would have meant such a great amount if the news regarding it acknowledged the unfortunate situation of it having to end with death. Even if it was truly the only way, killing is not worthy of celebration. It's not something those leading the nation ought to condone. My disappointment lies with the trigger-happy revenge-mongers, as usual.


----------



## Ilayas (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> There's no dehumanizing about what I said.  They have a different line of thinking based on opinions ideology that are directly in conflict with what's accepted in the West.  It just so happens that their line of thinking involves the senseless murder and mass-killing of innocent people to appease their god.
> 
> This is not painting Bin Laden or his constituents in a false light.  This is exactly what they believe and holds no room for the concepts presented by men like Locke because those ideas breed revolution from the oppressive life they want to instill and hold amongst the "true believers".
> 
> If anything, I'd say that they certainly hold a much bleaker view on what constitutes the morals and ethics surrounding murdering other human beings than what other members have been arguing for, and as it seems so far they can't exactly be easily reasoned with.






> Not saying it does. But to claim that those ideological concepts apply to people, organizations, or countries that clearly don't take seriously, or even condemn that kind of talk, means we can't seriously apply our values to these people. They live outside our normal realm of thinking, and the only life, liberty, and happiness they pursue comes at the direct result of the destruction of others abilities to do those same three things.



What you just said in the above statement is that a different set of rules apply a group of people because of their belief system then apply to people who share your belief system. How is that not de-humanizing a group of people because they believe something different then you do?


----------



## Darkwing (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Icky said:


> Okay, now you're grasping at goddamned straws. Are we done here?



Pretty much, I really need to go to bed now, it's like, 2:30am over here and I need to be up at 6. 

Have a happy Osama killing day everyone :3


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> I'm not disappointed in America that Bin Laden was killed, really. It seemed a likely outcome for when they'd find him. I'm neutral about that, possibly even a bit pro- that. I don't have any expectations on how US military should have handled it better.
> 
> However, it would have meant such a great amount if the news regarding it acknowledged the unfortunate situation of it having to end with death. Even if it was truly the only way, killing is not worthy of celebration. It's not something those leading the nation ought to condone. My disappointment lies with the trigger-happy revenge-mongers, as usual.


My this button has roamed away, but I would like to voice my approval of what Heimdal said. I did not expect Osama to be captured alive. Indeed I knew it was a likely outcome that we'd kill him. I expected it. But I had _hoped_ it would not come to that. 
And I am completely againsr the celebration and glorification of death, and the validation of revenge.


----------



## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/01/local-man-apparently.html

The power of twitter knows no bounds.

Not sure if its true but would be crazy if it was.


----------



## Geek (May 2, 2011)

Random observations in no particular order:

-no mention of why they couldn't take him alive...?

-just when you thought that maybe NOT having internet access might keep you from getting targeted, someone gets killed exactly for that

-has there been any word yet on the possibility of capturing the Bush administration?

-has there been any word on the potential of bringing those responsible for the healthcare crisis in the US to justice---the one that kills like 10x as many American citizens as 9-11 PER YEAR

-I love how Obama ran to the phone to kiss GWB's ass, and not take too much credit

-it's going to be really tough for Obama to throw the next election now! he's got his work cut out for him!

-seriously, this SHOULD undo the Carter Effect that the Dems have suffered under for some time, but if there is anything we know about the current crop of Dems it's that they absolutely discard every opportunity to correct the overall course of corruption and Republican shenanigans. it'll be interesting watching the superb Repub Spin Machine go into overdrive to find a way to turn this pr coup on its head.


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## Azbulldog (May 2, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> I'm not disappointed in America that Bin Laden was killed, really. It seemed a likely outcome for when they'd find him. I'm neutral about that, possibly even a bit pro- that. I don't have any expectations on how US military should have handled it better.
> 
> However, it would have meant such a great amount if the news regarding it acknowledged the unfortunate situation of it having to end with death. Even if it was truly the only way, killing is not worthy of celebration. It's not something those leading the nation ought to condone. My disappointment lies with the trigger-happy revenge-mongers, as usual.


I have no problem with the immediate killing, but this celebration is a bit barbaric. I'm glad this is finally over with, even if the hype of Osama has pretty much died over the past ten years.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Xegras said:


> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/01/local-man-apparently.html
> 
> The power of twitter knows no bounds.
> 
> Not sure if its true but would be crazy if it was.


 I remember hearing stories about predator operators and troops in the field using twitter to point their targets faster than their commo could.


----------



## Mayfurr (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Mojotech said:


> Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing" or as a negative somehow. :V


 
El Trump won't believe it until he sees the death certificate


----------



## PvtPuma (May 2, 2011)

I feel a sense of relief that Osama is dead.  I realize that he wasn't really in any position of power at this point, but I am still relieved that the man is gone.  I feel like some justice has been done.

Deo, while I don't completely agree with you on whether or not killing is justifiable, I am somewhat envious of your ability to believe such.  I know killing another person is wrong, but I can't help but think there are times where it's okay.  I find it hard to see a way other than death to bring about justice in some cases, this being one of them.

Thanks for making me think, FAF.  Philosophical debates are pretty neat.


----------



## Rouz (May 2, 2011)

Stupid Image 

Does anyone deserve to die? I don't know, but I know not everyone deserves to live. These are to completely different things in my opinion.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Ilayas said:


> What you just said in the above statement is that a different set of rules apply a group of people because of their belief system then apply to people who share your belief system. How is that not de-humanizing a group of people because they believe something different then you do?


 
I said that these people don't agree with our opinions or values.  They have their own, we have our own.  We can't project our way of life onto these people just like they shouldn't project their way of life onto us.  Not because "they're less human" but because that's not how that part of the world works, currently.  Please, take a political ideologies class if you can, and you'll understand that different governments hold different virtues.  The American way of life doesn't exist there, just as the Taliban/al-Qaeda way of life doesn't exist here because these two ideologies directly conflict with each other on more than one level.

Please, explain to me how Osama Bin Laden is entitled, within his faith and the governance of the extreme Islamic world, to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and what you think those three things would actually entail for him.


----------



## Mayonnaise (May 2, 2011)

Well, he's dead. Okay, what now? 

I want to feel glee but I can't. It's weird to revel in the demise of others. Even one that you brand as a monster.

I hope that this would be demoralising for the terrorist fundies. Hopefully, they wouldn't retaliate to this, we don't need more deaths. We don't need more tarnish on the name of our religion.

What would you do with the body America? Not treating it properly could be a good fuel to turn certain people to bolster their rank. I don't know, maybe. 


I think that I'm going to clean myself and pray... One of my prayers have been answered.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> My this button has roamed away, but I would like to voice my approval of what Heimdal said. I did not expect Osama to be captured alive. Indeed I knew it was a likely outcome that we'd kill him. I expected it. But I had _hoped_ it would not come to that.
> And I am completely againsr the celebration and glorification of death, and the validation of revenge.


 

Hear! Hear! 

I hope this thread will still be open tomorrow. I had a long day, got called in on my beautiful day off and now I feel sleepy. Night. And Deo, hang in there and take care.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Geek said:


> -no mention of why they couldn't take him alive...?


 
It was a firefight between Bin Laden's personal guard and American special forces.  Kind of hard to secure a VIP in those kinds of conditions.

According to what X-Man has told me, Osama's personal guard likely would have been instructed to make sure he wasn't taken alive.  At least one head shot was made on Bin Laden and chances are this was made by a member of his guard.  It's unlikely that an American soldier was able to nail him with a head shot during a firefight.

This was an ugly situation, but one that presented an opportunity to take out one of the most wanted men in the world.  They were going to take it, whether or not he was going to end up dead or alive.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

I think there is one thing we can all agree on though, we finally have closure.


----------



## Calemeyr (May 2, 2011)

I am glad the fucker's dead. Give the man who made the shot the Medal of Honor. No, give the whole squad the Medal of Honor. I normally think it's best to avoid fighting, but in some cases, its the damn right thing to do. Like WW2, and here. WW1--not so much.

I do see some people complaining that we killed someone. You know what, you're pussies. Would you prefer to pay for his jail time?

I thought of this a little while ago: Ding dong the witch is dead!

This man caused much pain and suffering in the world, so justice has been served. It is right that he has died. To complain about this is like complaining about killing Ed Gein, Jeffery Dahmer, or John Wayne Gacy.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I think there is one thing we can all agree on though, we finally have closure.


 
I fear only symbolically.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

1dynamofox1 said:


> I am glad the fucker's dead. Give the man who made the shot the Medal of Honor. No, give the whole squad the Medal of Honor. I normally think it's best to avoid fighting, but in some cases, its the damn right thing to do. Like WW2, and here. WW1--not so much.
> 
> I do see some people complaining that we killed someone. You know what, you're pussies. Would you prefer to pay for his jail time?


 Context. Get it.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> I fear only symbolically.


 Is there any other kind?


----------



## Mayfurr (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Darkwing said:


> They probably do care now that we have killed him. We got their leader, the very mastermind who has been orchestrating terrorist attacks against us and other nations for years, it's a great loss on their side.



Except that as subsequent events like 7/7 in London and the Bali bombing proved, a decentralised Al-Qaeda doesn't _need_ bin Laden alive to be a threat. I personally think the impact on Al-Qaeda will be pretty underwhelming, as they've been running ops practically without him for the best part of a decade. As one local blogger puts it:



> ... while Americans are already cheering the death, *it doesn't actually solve anything. *This is the real world, not a fantasy novel. *The world is not suddenly set to rights because the Dark Lord is dead*. To point out the obvious, the Taliban are fighting their own war, not bin Laden's; they are not going to lay down their arms because an old man is dead. Likewise, *al Qaeda as an organisation isn't going to magically disappear with bin Laden's death*, and the long war he has started is not going to end - not as long as the US keeps murdering innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It will be justice, not murder, which ends that terrorist campaign. _(emphasis added)_



It's a hell of a morale boost to the US though.


----------



## Ilayas (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I said that these people don't agree with our opinions or values.  They have their own, we have our own.  We can't project our way of life onto these people just like they shouldn't project their way of life onto us.  Not because "they're less human" but because that's not how that part of the world works, currently.  Please, take a political ideologies class if you can, and you'll understand that different governments hold different virtues.  The American way of life doesn't exist there, just as the Taliban/al-Qaeda way of life doesn't exist here because these two ideologies directly conflict with each other on more than one level.
> 
> Please, explain to me how Osama Bin Laden is entitled, within his faith and the governance of the extreme Islamic world, to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and what you think those three things would actually entail for him.


 
I never used Locke in my discussions with you.  Nor did I ever state that him being dead is a good or a bad thing. All I'm pointing out is that you've been justifying killing people because they hold a different belief then you do.  Also that morality really only applies to people who share that moral belief.  Which is the same line of thinking that leads people like Osama Bin Laden to do things like 9/11.  If it's wrong for him to do things that harm other people because they don't share his moral values how is it right for you or me to do the same?

If you want to justify his death as being moral action (or at lest not an amoral one) you should find a different argument then the one you have been using.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

1dynamofox1 said:


> I do see some people complaining that we killed someone. You know what, you're pussies.


 Yes, standing by fundamental moral tenets makes us "pussies". How enlightening.

Also I am so mad at whomever invented air horns. They still have not stopped celebrating here. It's sickening, and they are going about in cars with air horns, and since they are moving I cannot go out and confront them. ARGH.


----------



## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Mayfurr said:


> Except that as subsequent events like 7/7 in London and the Bali bombing proved, a decentralised Al-Qaeda doesn't _need_ bin Laden alive to be a threat. I personally think the impact on Al-Qaeda will be pretty underwhelming, as they've been running ops practically without him for the best part of a decade.
> 
> It's a hell of a morale boost to the US though.


 A morale boost we needed years ago.
Even if it will be a underwhelming effect on Al-Qaeda, for us it will be a world of difference because now in New York and that they can finally have some sort of closure for their family members that died.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Is there any other kind?


 
The celebration in the streets would say not, but it's like Gen. Tarkin going up with the Death Star: his then-lieutenant Vader escaped.  Back to reality, real closure won't happen until the entire Al Qaeda leadership is accounted for.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I think there is one thing we can all agree on though, we finally have closure.


 But to what ends? A man is dead, yes, but that alone will not stop terrorism, the war, or have any great impact on the world that could be seen as "closure". Unless, his death is means to some sort of closure that I am unaware of.


----------



## Rouz (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> The celebration in the streets would say not, but it's like Gen. Tarkin going up with the Death Star: his then-lieutenant Vader escaped.  Back to reality, real closure won't happen until the entire Al Qaeda leadership is accounted for.



People can be replaced though. New people will take over old roles. Even after the 2nd Death Star blew up the bits and pieces of the Empire remained.


----------



## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Please, explain to me how Osama Bin Laden is entitled, within his faith and the governance of the extreme Islamic world, to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and what you think those three things would actually entail for him.


 
I don't get this. 'Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' is a way of life, and a philosophical perspective on life. To live by it is to view others with it in mind, it's not just for our own self. If America isn't there to project these human rights way of life, then it's there for all the wrong reasons, and would be the ones who are the bad guys (America's involvement didn't begin at 9/11, after all.)

I agree with those human rights. However, if you stick your nose into some other country's business, you shouldn't get to pick and choose where you want your projected rights to apply. That's manipulation and propaganda bordering right on evil. If you believe in those rights, they should apply equally to everywhere you stick your rifle.


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## CannonFodder (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> The celebration in the streets would say not, but it's like Gen. Tarkin going up with the Death Star: his then-lieutenant Vader escaped.  Back to reality, real closure won't happen until the entire Al Qaeda leadership is accounted for.


 Al Qaeda is a de-centralized international terrorist organization, realistically speaking we are still going to have to deal with them ten years from now.  We will never achieve any "real" closure, even if it isn't real, it's enough of a emotional closure for us.  There was never a goal line for this battle, how can you say you one a race if there was no goal?  We should just be grateful we achieved this small victory when we could've never have found him at all.  Many people still have scars from 9/11 and lost family members, atleast now they will be able to heal those emotional wounds with time.


Deo said:


> But to what ends? A man is dead, yes, but that alone will not stop terrorism, the war, or have any great impact on the world that could be seen as "closure". Unless, his death is means to some sort of closure that I am unaware of.


 It's a metaphorical closure, it's not _just_ a war against Al Qaeda when there are other terrorist organizations that could've attacked us as well, but rather a war against extremism and the roots of terrorism in the first place.  How do you stop terrorism when it is a idea?  You seal the well the idea springs forth from.


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## Icky (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Also I am so mad at whomever invented air horns. They still have not stopped celebrating here. It's sickening, and they are going about in cars with air horns, and since they are moving I cannot go out and confront them. ARGH.


 
Go memorize some quick Arabic gibberish, wrap a towel around your head and go outside, yelling at them in your new tongue.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Icky said:


> Go memorize some quick Arabic gibberish, wrap a towel around your head and go outside, yelling at them in your new tongue.


  TOMORROW


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Ilayas said:


> I never used Locke in my discussions with you.  Nor did I ever state that him being dead is a good or a bad thing. All I'm pointing out is that you've been justifying killing people because they hold a different belief then you do.  Also that morality really only applies to people who share that moral belief.  Which is the same line of thinking that leads people like Osama Bin Laden to do things like 9/11.  If it's wrong for him to do things that harm other people because they don't share his moral values how is it right for you or me to do the same?
> 
> If you want to justify his death as being moral action (or at lest not an amoral one) you should find a different argument then the one you have been using.


 
You decided to make a response to a post I made to Icky on why the ideological construct of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" does not apply to Osama, or anyone else who doesn't remotely qualify as part of a Western nation.  Our morals and values don't extend to those parts of the world, so therefore we can't project who we are onto people like the Taliban/al-Qaeda.  This is what I've been talking about since you quoted me.  You're clearly misinterpreting what I'm saying to fit your own argument, painting me as some kind of moral crusader instead of someone simply pointing out a basic fact on the difference between ideological values.

At the end of the day, had we taken him he likely wouldn't recognize the legitimacy of the court he was placed in.  In an ideal world where the ideals that you would like to project on Osama were actually real, maybe he wouldn't have decided to convince about a dozen hijackers to fly planes into buildings to kill as many people as possible based on the perversion of a religious faith.  Maybe another philosophical concept, the social contract, would have applied to him in his life and he wouldn't order suicide bombings because he wouldn't want something equally as horrifying happening to him.  But since they don't these things have and continue to happen.  

I don't think I've justified his death as anything other than something based on justice for those who've lost loved ones because of his projection of his faith on innocent people and him being held accountable for his actions.  Even then, you have to consider the fact that it's more likely that we didn't actually kill him, and that his own personal guard offed him so he could weasel out of having to be held responsible for the deaths of countless people.


----------



## Brazen (May 2, 2011)

Oh boy, you martyred the head of a decentralized organization that uses martyrdom as a propaganda tool, can't see that ending badly.


----------



## Mayfurr (May 2, 2011)

1dynamofox1 said:


> This man caused much pain and suffering in the world, so justice has been served. It is right that he has died. To complain about this is like complaining about killing Ed Gein, Jeffery Dahmer, or John Wayne Gacy.



Of course, if by the amount of pain and suffering inflicted on innocent people on their orders is the measure of how much someone "deserves to die", there's a certain ex-president resident of Crawford, TX who is at least equally deserving as bin Laden to be summarily executed... considering that at least _ten times the number of Iraqi innocents_ have died as a result of the US invasion of Iraq, to say nothing of all the mistakenly-targeted wedding parties etc in Afghanistan et al.

It's funny how the world works sometimes. Attack a few buildings and you're on the run for ten years hiding in caves. Attack an entire country and you get a second term in office and a quiet retirement...


----------



## Ilayas (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> You decided to make a response to a post I made to Icky on why the ideological construct of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" does not apply to Osama, or anyone else who doesn't remotely qualify as part of a Western nation.  Our morals and values don't extend to those parts of the world, so therefore we can't project who we are onto people like the Taliban/al-Qaeda.  This is what I've been talking about since you quoted me.  You're clearly misinterpreting what I'm saying to fit your own argument, painting me as some kind of moral crusader instead of someone simply pointing out a basic fact on the difference between ideological values.
> 
> At the end of the day, had we taken him he likely wouldn't recognize the legitimacy of the court he was placed in.  In an ideal world where the ideals that you would like to project on Osama were actually real, maybe he wouldn't have decided to convince about a dozen hijackers to fly planes into buildings to kill as many people as possible based on the perversion of a religious faith.  Maybe another philosophical concept, the social contract, would have applied to him in his life and he wouldn't order suicide bombings because he wouldn't want something equally as horrifying happening to him.  But since they don't these things have and continue to happen.
> 
> I don't think I've justified his death as anything other than something based on justice for those who've lost loved ones because of his projection of his faith on innocent people and him being held accountable for his actions.  Even then, you have to consider the fact that it's more likely that we didn't actually kill him, and that his own personal guard offed him so he could weasel out of having to be held responsible for the deaths of countless people.



I did not respond to your post because I agreed with Icky but rather I disagreed with your argument against Icky's point.  You are being hypocritical if you believe that rules that apply to us do not apply to everyone.  That's essentially what you have been saying the whole time and each time I point it out to you you claim it's ok because they don't share our moral beliefs.  But I fail to see how it is ok.  Osama Bin Laden killed and committed horrible acts against people because they didn't share his beliefs.  If you condemn that action then you can not justify causing harm using the same reasoning without being hypocritical. 

If you want to make the argument that killing him prevents him from causing harm to others fine that's something you can actually argue without committing a rather large logical fallacy. There are many arguments out there in support of killing him that are actually worth arguing but you haven't been using them.


----------



## Ziggywolf (May 2, 2011)

While I hold all human life sacred, Osama could be said had lost his humanity.
I wish he could have been made to realize all the pain he has caused, to feel it himself, how horrible it was.
That being said, this changes nothing. His death will probably be weived as a martyrdom by theese misguided fools who support him. And the oil and weapons industries will grow richer, while the common man suffers, none the wizer that this is all just a fasade to gain and exersize power.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Ilayas said:


> I did not respond to your post because I agreed with Icky but rather I disagreed with your argument against Icky's point.  You are being hypocritical if you believe that rules that apply to us do not apply to everyone.  That's essentially what you have been saying the whole time and each time I point it out to you you claim it's ok because they don't share our moral beliefs.  But I fail to see how it is ok.  Osama Bin Laden killed and committed horrible acts against people because they didn't share his beliefs.  If you condemn that action then you can not justify causing harm using the same reasoning without being hypocritical.
> 
> If you want to make the argument that killing him prevents him from causing harm to others fine that's something you can actually argue without committing a rather large logical fallacy. There are many arguments out there in support of killing him that are actually worth arguing but what you are basically saying is they aren't like us so it's ok to do what ever it is we want to them.


 
Again, you're not understanding what I'm saying.

I'm arguing against Icky's invocation of the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" motto for why Osama deserved to live.  This is a political phrase that was influenced by Locke and most famously used in the American Declaration of Independence.  How Americans view the world isn't the law of the land, and not even the same language used in the UN's Declaration of Human Rights.  Certainly there may be better reasons for why he deserved to live, but this is not one of them because we don't make the rules for everyone else, and this is especially true when engaging in a military action.  You might as well argue that the First Amendment applies to everyone who has and do live under Taliban rule, or for a less extreme example, the First Amendment applying to people living in the UK.

I didn't say it was okay for us to kill him because they don't believe in our morals.  But US policy towards its citizens doesn't apply to people outside the US.  This is a fact.  You completely misread and misinterpreted what I've been saying this entire time.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Brazen said:


> Oh boy, you martyred the head of a decentralized organization that uses martyrdom as a propaganda tool, can't see that ending badly.


 I hope it does not spark more violence.


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## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> No exceptions. Partying over the death of another human being is a horrible action. Seriously people, what barbarism have we reached when we glorify and happily bask in the death of a man? I despise his actions, I despise his murder, but it is morally wrong to be celebrating his death.
> 
> And yes, Rukh, I had wished that they would be able to capture him alive. I knew that it was unlikely, but I had hoped. I did not wish death upon him, nor do I wish death upon anyone. And certainly I have no enjoyment or some sort of sick glee upon hearing of a man being shot in the head.




I SERIOUSLY. SERIOUSLY doubt you'll be saying the same thing when you're picking up fucking body parts at ground zero.

If any of you shits want the photos, you can have em.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> I SERIOUSLY. SERIOUSLY doubt you'll be saying the same thing when you're picking up fucking body parts at ground zero.
> 
> If any of you shits want the photos, you can have em.


 
This post is a lot better once you notice the signature.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> This post is a lot better once you notice the signature.


 
?


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## The_Unknowin (May 2, 2011)

I can't help but wander Deo what would you have done?


----------



## cad (May 2, 2011)

Saw this on the news today. Not sure what to say about it though.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

The_Unknowin said:


> I can't help but wander Deo what would you have done?


 What would I have done about what?



MaverickCowboy said:


> I SERIOUSLY. SERIOUSLY doubt you'll be  saying the same thing when you're picking up fucking body parts at  ground zero.
> If any of you shits want the photos, you can have em.


  So revenge makes everything better? Us gloating over a man's death makes  the horror of picking up body parts more bearable? Do explain how more  death makes the past deaths in 9/11 more palatable. 

Also does anyone else find it weird that Maverick stopped to take photos of dead people's body parts?


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## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> What would I have done about what?
> 
> 
> So revenge makes everything better? Us gloating over a man's death makes  the horror of picking up body parts more bearable? Do explain how more  death makes the past deaths in 9/11 more palatable.
> ...



Even if he did, it's even creepier (to me anyway) to try and shove them onto other people in a weird, emotionally-charged shock tactic.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> Even if he did, it's even creepier (to me anyway) to try and shove them onto other people in a weird, emotionally-charged shock tactic.


 Where would he keep them? Like printed from film? Or just saved to his computer? 
WHY would he keep them?
And yeah, the emotional shock/black-mail tactic is disconcerting. Along with _using_ people's mangled bodies and the images of their deaths as a means of winning an internet argument. It just seems horribly disrespectful of the dead to go about claiming respect for them as a reason that Osama deserves death, then pandering the photos of their broken bodies out on the internet.


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## BTA (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Mojotech said:


> Inb4 Conservatives try to spin this as "not really Obama's doing" or as a negative somehow. :V


 It wasn't really Obama's doing. No politician can take credit for this.

It was the doing of the brave soldiers of the United States Military.

Whenever you see a veteran or a soldier, be sure to stop to thank them for their service.


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## Xenke (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Also does anyone else find it weird that Maverick stopped to take photos of dead people's body parts?


 
Not so much weird as disrespectful. They serve no real purpose.


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## Brazen (May 2, 2011)

The real question is, was there a valid reason for the military to go out of their way and kill Bin Laden? I was under the impression that the reason the man lived in a cave and resorted to teasing the US government using Youtube videos was because he didn't have any proper power, is there evidence that the man is actually still strategically important? 

The US people can celebrate all they want, they're dumbasses, what's more troubling is the idea that a large government body would resort to something as petty as pure revenge.


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## Schwimmwagen (May 2, 2011)

COUNTER-TERRORISTS WIN.

And I realise that every forum and journal that I'm on about Bin Laden has me saying this.


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## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Gibby said:


> COUNTER-TERRORISTS WIN.
> 
> And I realise that every forum and journal that I'm on about Bin Laden has me saying this.


 
Get out of there, it's gonna blow!



Brazen said:


> The real question is, was there a valid reason for  the military to go out of their way and kill Bin Laden? I was under the  impression that the reason the man lived in a cave and resorted to  teasing the US government using Youtube videos was because he didn't  have any proper power, is there evidence that the man is actually still  strategically important?
> 
> The US people can celebrate all they want, they're dumbasses, what's  more troubling is the idea that a large government body would resort to  something as petty as pure revenge.


 
As far as I know, he was actually in a pretty nice house.


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## Iudicium_86 (May 2, 2011)

Shouldn't have used his real name and address on PSN


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## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

Gibby said:


> COUNTER-TERRORISTS WIN.
> 
> And I realise that every forum and journal that I'm on about Bin Laden has me saying this.


 
I'm kind if suprised nobody has said this so far haha


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## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Iudicium_86 said:


> Shouldn't have used his real name and address on PSN


 
You should probably give credit to the person who came up with that.


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## Iudicium_86 (May 2, 2011)

Not gonna read through 15pages but hope this hasn't been posted already..

"England, we will see your Wedding and raise you a Funeral" ~ The Sarcasm Society


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## Brazen (May 2, 2011)

Out of curiousity, since I don't have access to most of the US news outlets, are people bringing up the fact that this was a monster of their own creation they've just put down, or are they pretending like he was some sort of fairy tale bad guy that came out of nowhere and blew up a bunch of skyscrapers because he's evil. As in, the guy was recruited into terrorism in the first place to fight the Soviets, he got his weapons and training from the US and then simply went rogue, is anyone acknowledging that this is less of "All who attack Amurrikka shall die" and more of "Well, we finally cleaned up that mess of ours, not a moment too soon either".


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## Xegras (May 2, 2011)

Brazen said:


> Out of curiousity, since I don't have access to most of the US news outlets, are people bringing up the fact that this was a monster of their own creation they've just put down, or are they pretending like he was some sort of fairy tale bad guy that came out of nowhere and blew up a bunch of skyscrapers because he's evil. As in, the guy was recruited into terrorism in the first place to fight the Soviets, he got his weapons and training from the US and then simply went rogue, is anyone acknowledging that this is less of "All who attack Amurrikka shall die" and more of "Well, we finally cleaned up that mess of ours, not a moment too soon either".



Mostly the evil fairy tale.


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## Larry (May 2, 2011)

So um.... is Al Qaeda gonna kill us now, or what?


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## Brazen (May 2, 2011)

larry669 said:


> So um.... is Al Qaeda gonna kill us now, or what?


 
Not all of you, though I'm expecting hilarious events to unfold now.

I'm sure the appropriate US defense agencies are doing a great job in combatting terrorism on their own soil, but what about other countries? Hilariously, Obama has decided to visit Ireland on the 18th, basically coinciding with the visit of the queen of England on the 17th. Now, there are several reasons this is really funny.

The first being the laughable state of Irish security. We're a small country, we have the second lowest crime rate in Europe, and most of those are due to drunk teenagers. The CIA better bring half of its staff over here if they want even a semblance of security.
Then there's the fact that the queen will be there also. This is the first time in a century a member of British royalty has set foot in Ireland, with good reason (we don't like them very much). There's now a good enough reason for both the remnants of the pIRA and Al Quaeda to tag-team it.

EDIT: Turned on the news, now we got scrolling text warning us to avoid public events and airline travel. Thanks again America.


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## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

All over the news this morning.


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## LizardKing (May 2, 2011)

Wha?

Oh. Well that's good I guess. Give it a few days and I suppose there'll be some t-shirts about it.


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## Cavy (May 2, 2011)

So, Osama Bin Laden is finally dead. Good Riddance. However, did killing this guy will really change everything?  No. Chances are, there are thousands of guys who are just like him, more or less.


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## Teto (May 2, 2011)

i think its just a coverup who saw a picture of the body? only we got told by obama and we cant trust him anymor


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## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



BTA said:


> It wasn't really Obama's doing. No politician can take credit for this.
> 
> It was the doing of the brave soldiers of the United States Military.
> 
> Whenever you see a veteran or a soldier, be sure to stop to thank them for their service.


 
Obama authorized the operation.  Credit still goes to the troops, but this is still a damn sight more than, say, Reagan had to do with the end of the Cold War (nothing).


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (May 2, 2011)

Yet one another man has been killed.
Saving world one death at a time.


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## Nail_bunny (May 2, 2011)

Good riddance to bad rubbish, I only wish his death was slower and painful.

This is my opinion so don't poke me from your moral high horse and tell me why I'm disgusting or wrong.
Because I don't give a fuck.

I'm not stroking my american cock over his death or really celebrating. I'm not patriotic at all but this fuckers death to me I cant help but feel some sense of justice.
He did not deserve to live as long as he did after what he had done.


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## Calemeyr (May 2, 2011)

litso said:


> i think its just a coverup who saw a picture of the body? only we got told by obama and we cant trust him anymor


 
You better not be serious. If so, GTFO. (Though I will admit we had a hand in creating him with Cold War stupidity).

Also, I stand by my ridicule of those complaining about Bin Laden's death. This is like complaining about the death of a child rapist and torturer. If you feel bad that a man who had thousand killed is dead, then you need to talk to someone. Normally, it is wrong to celebrate someone's death. This time it isn't.


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## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Nothing does. There is no justifying killing a man. Why do you so desperately seek out a means of justifying death?


 
Pacifism to that extreme has only two outcomes: hypocrisy or annihilation.


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## lupinealchemist (May 2, 2011)

I went to bed early last night, so I just got the news today. Didn't he already have deteriorating health before his death? Anyway, just like Saddam's execution, I was in disbelief that this actually happened. Good for everyone. I would like to know the details of his death at a medical pov, though.


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## Teto (May 2, 2011)

1dynamofox1 said:


> You better not be serious. If so, GTFO. (Though I will admit we had a hand in creating him with Cold War stupidity).


 
what do you mean? and all Im saying is that ever after obama goed back on his change promise its hard to have the belief in him anymor.. so maybe osama isnt actually dead yet


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## Littlerock (May 2, 2011)

DING GONG, THE WITCH IS DEAD
WHICH OLD WITCH?
THE TERMINALLY ILL ONE THAT HAS BEEN DE-THRONED AGES AGO, HAS LITTLE TO NO POLITICAL POWER LEFT, AND WAS GOING MOST LIKELY GOING TO DIE SOON OF NATURAL CAUSES ANYWAY.

FUCKING SHIT FUCK, AMERICA.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Uhhhh, not to rain on anyones parade, but Osama wasn't out of the fight, nor was his money. You might think it's a symbolic victory, but it's really more than that. Just because he isn't pushing out audio tapes every 10 minutes doesn't mean that he's sleeping. There is a lot more to this than that. That said, just because someone is old or ill, it does not spare them from justice.

Edit- To expand on this a little bit, when they initially surveyed the compound he was hiding in, they did so by following his most trusted courier. What was that fellow doing out of the safety of the compound, which was about as tech dark and squirreled away as any place on this earth? Probably handing out orders, advice, money, intel, moral support, fucking candy, condoms, AIDS? I dunno, but it means he was in it up to the very end.


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## Digitalpotato (May 2, 2011)

Darkwing said:


> Yeah! The bastard is finally dead!
> 
> I wonder how/who killed him?


 
Some soldiers and co-ops who'll never receive credit for their work, similar to a lot of game developers who're published by a big-name company. 

Even though in this case it's more for safety. 


Yay bin laden is dead...when he's not the only terrorist out there and he wasn't their commander, either.


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## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

this is exxcellent *licks lips8

i dont know why peopel are all OH MY GOD THIS IS UNGBELIEVABLE

wahteve whateva, i dont care i think its cool but whateva.



barefootfoof said:


> DING GONG, THE WITCH IS DEAD
> WHICH OLD WITCH?
> THE TERMINALLY ILL ONE THAT HAS BEEN DE-THRONED AGES AGO, HAS LITTLE TO NO POLITICAL POWER LEFT, AND WAS GOING MOST LIKELY GOING TO DIE SOON OF NATURAL CAUSES ANYWAY.
> 
> FUCKING SHIT FUCK, AMERICA.


 old shitcock or not, he still was a terrorist and still had influence on terorist attacks

p./s he was 54 you shit, he wasnt going to die natural causes anyway


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## ramsay_baggins (May 2, 2011)

Anyone remember this? Well done Bush, we could have got him ten years ago...

Also, Kim Jong-Il never ceases to amuse me.


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## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Digitalpotato said:


> Some soldiers and co-ops who'll never receive credit for their work, similar to a lot of game developers who're published by a big-name company.
> 
> Even though in this case it's more for safety.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know. I don't think anyone is going to pass up the PR opportunity to award them a bunch of medals in person. 

And him being dead is still some pretty damn good news. 

Sure, it doesn't mean that we'll be shitting rainbows on easy street, but nothing ever does. Point is that it's a victory and we should take them where we cn.


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## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

ramsay_baggins said:


> Also, Kim Jong-Il never ceases to amuse me.


 This has oficially made my day. Holy crap HAHAHAHAHAHA


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## LizardKing (May 2, 2011)

ramsay_baggins said:


> Also, Kim Jong-Il never ceases to amuse me.


 
He is the best. 

Unless you live there.

If science could combine him with Gaddafi I think he would be a messiah.


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

ramsay_baggins said:


> Anyone remember this? Well done Bush, we could have got him ten years ago...
> 
> Also, Kim Jong-Il never ceases to amuse me.


I seriously doubt that the Taliban would have given him to us. Now during Bill Clintons years, we had a few opportunities as well. But the sad fact it, we betrayed this fellow a loooooong time ago, and in doing so, are responsible for what he became. 9/11 was his revenge to us for leaving him hanging all those long years ago. And he's not the last of the CIA boogeymen.


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## Gavrill (May 2, 2011)

ramsay_baggins said:


> Also, Kim Jong-Il never ceases to amuse me.


 
My day has been made. I'm imagining a short, chubby Korean man running into a gunfight with arms that are made of swords.


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## Teto (May 2, 2011)

I guess I am okay though with the fact they got him, and I'm not all pessimistic about all the other terrorists because Bin Laden was the only one who wasn't going to blow himself up anyway?


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## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

everybody google image search "Osama dead"
lol

nvm apparently its a fake pic


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## CynicalCirno (May 2, 2011)

The death of Bin Laden is remarkable.
Lead to the head was the perfect choice for him.


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## VoidBat (May 2, 2011)

Relevant.

It had to be done. :V


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Smugmeister said:


> Relevant.
> 
> It had to be done. :V


 Wow, that takes me back. M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL KILL kill kill!!


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

The only solution is for everyone to arm themselves to the teeth, live without rules or regard for the safety, well-being or prosperity of anyone but themselves, to constantly go about their business with nothing but malice and contempt for their fellow man, just begging for an excuse to squeeze the trigger. Yeah, I don't need to live in the real world to know what humans can be and how they should live, *I've played Fallout, you fuckin' gay!*


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## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

1dynamofox1 said:


> Also, I stand by my ridicule of those complaining about Bin Laden's death. This is like complaining about the death of a child rapist and torturer. If you feel bad that a man who had thousand killed is dead, then you need to talk to someone. Normally, it is wrong to celebrate someone's death. This time it isn't.


 
So if it wasn't revenge, killing would be bad, but because it is revenge, killing is good? You are truly a credit to moral standards.



			
				Unsilenced said:
			
		

> Pacifism to that extreme has only two outcomes: hypocrisy or annihilation



Not at all, unless you're interpreting like everyone else, as a "we should never kill, ever" stance? No one has actually ever said that in this thread. Deo has even mentioned killing having inevitable scenarios, or ones that can deem it necessary. The actual stance being held here is that it isn't "good", and killing should not be celebrated as "happy times".

If you want to see an outcome that is already hypocrisy, look at the first quote above. What's bad is now good, because they want it to be. (Revenge isn't a separate reason from "they want")


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Revenge and Pacifism are two separate concepts.


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## VoidBat (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Wow, that takes me back. M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL KILL kill kill!!


 
If it only would sound like that in rl, oh bliss. 
On a second thought, maybe it's a good thing that it doesn't. :V


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## Kiru-kun (May 2, 2011)

And now for my opinion that si shocking that it will make small kittens and puppies cry blood!


...I really, don't care, either way.


But what what really saddens me, is everyone arguing about it. and I don't mean just one side. All I hear is who's right and who's wrong and who's the bigger asshole.


a Man dead today. Now that that's been said. can we as a people Move on?


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> Pacifism to that extreme has only two outcomes: hypocrisy or annihilation.


 It is not so much pacifism as the basic moral stance that a man has a right to his life. There is no moving me on the subject. There is no good out of killing a man, and there is no right to kill another human being. And further on that it is disgusting to not only deprive someone of life, but to take pleasure from it and celebrate it.



Azure said:


> Revenge and Pacifism are two separate concepts.


 This is also important. Osama was of almost no threat. He was killed as a trophy, he was killed for revenge, a way to appease the masses cry for blood.



Heimdal said:


> Not at all, unless you're interpreting like  everyone else, as a "we should never kill, ever" stance? No one has  actually ever said that in this thread. Deo has even mentioned killing  having inevitable scenarios, or ones that can deem it necessary. The  actual stance being held here is that it isn't "good", and killing  should not be celebrated as "happy times".
> 
> If you want to see an  outcome that is already hypocrisy, look at the first quote above. What's  bad is now good, because they want it to be. (Revenge isn't a separate  reason from "they want")


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## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Then I will take annihilation. There is no moving me on the subject. There is no good out of killing a man, and there is no right to kill another human being.


 
I'm sure you'd eat meat to survive if you needed to. It's the same concept of killing to survive, and it's how most species on this earth have survived to this day. Why do you elevate humans, just another animal, to such levels that you would not kill one if your choice was that or death? I appreciate humanity and our art and culture and brilliance, don't get me wrong, but I also think I'd have more to offer this world than the person who's trying to kill me.


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## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

I'm not glad he's dead because he was a horrible person and deserved to die. If he had been executed after 5 years of imprisonment, I wouldn't celebrate his execution. I honestly wouldn't care. 

Why not? Because his execution wouldn't have really meant anything except that he was dead. 

What his death now means is that he's no longer a threat. It means we landed a solid blow on an enemy that's hard to hit. It means we accomplished something. 

No, it doesn't mean that we're in the clear, or that the war is over. It doesn't mean that we win and can go home now, but it means we landed a good goddamn hit. 

I think that counts for something.


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> I'm sure you'd eat meat to survive if you needed to. It's the same concept of killing to survive, and it's how most species on this earth have survived to this day. Why do you elevate humans, just another animal, to such levels that you would not kill one if your choice was that or death? I appreciate humanity and our art and culture and brilliance, don't get me wrong, but I also think I'd have more to offer this world than the person who's trying to kill me.


 Are you seriously going to imply that killing a person is validated on the basis that I eat meat?
Aden, I elevate humanity because I am human. I elevate humanity because of it's language, because of it's intellect, because of it's sense of self, it's ability to remember, to think and plan for the future, but mostly because I am human and I am ruled by human morals. Killing a human being is not the same as killing a fish, or a chicken.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

I'm reminded of a quote about how people who resort to comparing people and animals to rationalize anything usually know little about either. "For we eat meat, therefor we must revel in blood and misery, for it is the ways of our ancestors, we must go back to the Mi'Kmaq wwaaayyysss, wumba-heya-wumba-heya, yaway waya waya yo"


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## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> I'm sure you'd eat meat to survive if you needed to. It's the same concept of killing to survive, and it's how most species on this earth have survived to this day. Why do you elevate humans, just another animal, to such levels that you would not kill one if your choice was that or death? I appreciate humanity and our art and culture and brilliance, don't get me wrong, but I also think I'd have more to offer this world than the person who's trying to kill me.


 Yeah, the person trying to kill me? Probably some cunt. Humanity is great and all, and it's noble to not want to kill, but when it comes to self preservation, we are HARDWIRED to defend ourselves. Rationale is shoved way back, your adrenaline will surge, and you will choose fight or flight as unconsciously as the next man, unless you posses training and disciplines expressly for that situation.


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## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Comparing eating to killing, fucking, etc is stupid as shit
Kind of off topic but I can't help but think of the "YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE! YOU EAT MEAT YET YOU'RE AGAINST FUCKING COWS" argument

It's stupid as fuck adn dont use it


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## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Are you seriously going to imply that killing a person is validated on the basis that I eat meat?
> Aden, I elevate humanity because I am human. I elevate humanity because of it's language, because of it's intellect, because of it's sense of self, it's ability to remember, to think and plan for the future, but mostly because I am human and I am ruled by human morals. Killing a human being is not the same as killing a fish, or a chicken.


 
I'm saying that it's ridiculous to allow yourself to die at the hands of someone else without doing something about it _because you're also a human_. You _also_ possess the language, the intellect, the consciousness, and the reasoning, and you're probably going to be a better specimen of humanity than the person that's trying to do you in. I'm saying that in that instance, I would treat a person that's intent on killing me the same as I would treat a charging animal - defend myself or try running the fuck away, but _never_ resigning myself to be killed just because of the species of the thing that's trying to do it.


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## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> It is not so much pacifism as the basic moral stance that a man has a right to his life. There is no moving me on the subject. There is no good out of killing a man, and there is no right to kill another human being. And further on that it is disgusting to not only deprive someone of life, but to take pleasure from it and celebrate it.


 Does a man have a right to life when he threatens the right of others? How much are you willing to suffer in the name of peace? Is it really infinite? 



"Because if you can't kill, then you are always subject those who can, and nothing and no one will ever save you." -Ender's game. 

Or, to be a bit more high-brow:_ "Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum."-_Vegetius (Let him who desires peace prepare for war)


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> I'm saying that it's ridiculous to allow yourself to die at the hands of someone else without doing something about it _because you're also a human_. You _also_ possess the language, the intellect, the consciousness, and the reasoning, and you're probably going to be a better specimen of humanity than the person that's trying to do you in. I'm saying that in that instance, I would treat a person that's intent on killing me the same as I would treat a charging animal - defend myself or try running the fuck away, but _never_ resigning myself to be killed just because of the species of the thing that's trying to do it.


No what I was saying, was that for myself I do not think I could bear to kill another person. If that situation is ever upon me I do not think I could go through with it. Call it a weak stomach, call it morality, the fact is at the moment of need if the need was of lethal force I would stumble and hesitate. I did not suggest that others should forgo their own lives, merely that I would be unable to kill in defense myself. Not that I wouldn't try to fight, or run, or scream, or whatever, I would fight like hell, but I'd never be able to go through with killing a person. Every person must assess their own moral code, and you have yours, and I'd agree that for other people who are not me then killing in self defense is fine for them. But that was not the case here. We killed Osama out of some twisted form of justice that in the end was merely revenge.


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## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Yeah I think we were arguing about two different things |3


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## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> Yeah I think we were arguing about two different things |3


 Such as meat is murder?


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## Iudicium_86 (May 2, 2011)

Just gonna throw my own honest view that it's a moral obligation to kill and/or torture... in some cases.

I view things in the grander scale. Lets call it "Total sum of happiness". If an individual is killing or even influencing others to take lives and therefore taking away from this total sum, then it's a moral obligation to terminate those individuals. Through _inaction_ you are allowing the total sum to diminish. As for torture, same applies for any group or individuals who have to be forced into revealing information that will lead to saving/sparing this total sum. I'm the guy that wouldn't hesitate to take a [negative] life to save another [positive] life, even more-so when it's one life to save countless others. It's just the math and making sure to make choices that maintain or even maximize the total sum of happiness.


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## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Such as meat is murder?


 
self-preservation vs. morality of violence
they're related, but they just kinda sideswipe each other in this argument


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## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> I'm sure you'd eat meat to survive if you needed to. It's the same concept of killing to survive, and it's how most species on this earth have survived to this day. Why do you elevate humans, just another animal, to such levels that you would not kill one if your choice was that or death? I appreciate humanity and our art and culture and brilliance, don't get me wrong, but I also think I'd have more to offer this world than the person who's trying to kill me.


 
Neither the fact that life feeds on life nor the need to defend life, liberty, and property from those who threaten them excuse us from the responsibility of giving all life the respect it deserves, regardless of whether that respect is given to us or not.  Death is inevitable and sometimes necessary, yes, but the wish for death is neither.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Aden, you could just as easily argue that if someone like Deo doesn't have it in her to kill, which is a pretty fucking human act, the killer is actually "asserting his will to power" and his "might makes right" and Deo doesn't deserve that which she's not willing to defend to the death, blah blah blah. That's why these arguments are fucking retarded. They're old as hell and they never lead to any logical end that isn't either Communism or Fascism.



Deo said:


> Such as meat is murder?


 
_I think_ what he might be arguing is that "you're a better example of humanity" as in the other person is actually less human, an animal, like one you would kill and eat to survive. Which is pretty fucked up if that's what he's saying.


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## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Ugh, I just knew that the eating meat thing would be blown up to stupid proportions |c  I'm not a PETA member, really

The point I was trying to illustrate was this: most animals survive by killing and eating other things, and animals have self-preservation instincts. Humans are also animals, therefore the self-preservation instincts exist in humans. If human A is attempting to kill human B, it's human B's biological imperative to defend him or herself. If human B has to kill human A to accomplish this, I would not disapprove of his or her actions, just as I would not disapprove of someone lost in the woods killing a deer in order to not starve.

I was not trying to say that eating a burger entitles you to kill people, what the fuck. "I'm sure you'd eat meat to survive if you needed to." "I'm sure you'd eat meat *to survive* *if you needed to.*"


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## Smelge (May 2, 2011)

Instead of getting all mixed up, why not just eat the person you murder. Morality sustained, go about your life.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> Ugh, I just knew that the eating meat thing would be blown up to stupid proportions |c  I'm not a PETA member, really
> 
> The point I was trying to illustrate was this: most animals survive by killing and eating other things, and animals have self-preservation instincts. Humans are also animals, therefore the self-preservation instincts exist in humans. If human A is attempting to kill human B, it's human B's biological imperative to defend him or herself. If human B has to kill human A to accomplish this, I would not disapprove of his or her actions, just as I would not disapprove of someone lost in the woods killing a deer in order to not starve.
> 
> I was not trying to say that eating a burger entitles you to kill people, what the fuck. "I'm sure you'd eat meat to survive if you needed to." "I'm sure you'd eat meat *to survive* *if you needed to.*"


 
Just doing what you have to do to survive is a far cry from getting a near-erotic thrill off killing, or the fact that someone else was killed. Inb4 you switch to some argument about how circlejerking over someone's death is an age old community building ritual dating back to "our hunter-gatherer ancestors" none of us even knows the fuck anything about.


----------



## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Inb4 you switch to some argument about how circlejerking over someone's death is an age old community building ritual dating back to "our hunter-gatherer ancestors" none of us even knows the fuck anything about.


 
what in the hell do you take me for

Am I getting punk'd?


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Just doing what you have to do to survive is a far cry from getting a near-erotic thrill off killing, or the fact that someone else was killed. Inb4 you switch to some argument about how circlejerking over someone's death is an age old community building ritual dating back to "our hunter-gatherer ancestors" none of us even knows the fuck anything about.


 
this is the funniest post


----------



## Aden (May 2, 2011)

For the record, I can think like that and I still agree with this entire article
Does that make me less of a horrible person
rate my horrible-person-ness on a scale from 1 to 10


----------



## Gavrill (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> For the record, I can think like that and I still agree with this entire article
> Does that make me less of a horrible person
> rate my horrible-person-ness on a scale from 1 to 10


 1 and a this


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Listen, you fucking morons. This is really what it all boils down to. When a person is executed, or murdered, or killed in the heat of the moment, or whatever, even if that person did terrible things, most of us who _aren't_ governed primarily by our genitals and stomachs can't help but feel just a bit of sympathy for them. We're not always sure why, but we're pretty sure if nothing else, at least it's one of the things that differentiates us from them. But because of who they are and what they did, we'd _like_ to feel as little for them emotionally as we can manage. When the lot of you start getting on like a bunch of grass-skirt, wood-mask wearing troglodytes, you make that much harder to do, and since we see no point joining in since the person we're really mad at is dead (and remember, we're trying our damnedest not to stoop to your level or theirs), it makes it a lot harder not to hate *you*. 

"This dates back to our hunter gatherer ancestor Billy Two Willies, who asked The Great Raven Spirit what he should do about his brothers and sisters hootin' and hollerin' all hours of the night outside his tepee while he was trying to sleep. And sayeth The Raven to Billy Two Willies, 'go ye forth out into the wilderness, and gather the brown paper bag, the lighter, and the sacred bear spirit's poop. know ye still that your kin will eventually tire of their folly, and when they do, that is when you will go menu-select all-combine and equip the burning sacred bear poop, to disturb the karma of their tepees as they do unto yours'. Quoth The Great Raven Spirit, nevermore!"


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> For the record, I can think like that and I still agree with this entire article
> Does that make me less of a horrible person
> rate my horrible-person-ness on a scale from 1 to 10


 That article is pretty bad.


----------



## Aden (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> That article is pretty bad.


 
baw


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Cavy said:


> So, Osama Bin Laden is finally dead. Good Riddance. However, did killing this guy will really change everything?  No. Chances are, there are thousands of guys who are just like him, more or less.



Justice was served. I also think if there were "thousands" of guys just like him, we'd be living in a real apocalypse.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Aden said:


> baw


 It's not that, it's the giant deluge of trite, useless journalism we should be bawwing about. But you're like .5 on the badness scale. Really. I think I'd rate about an 11.


----------



## Larry (May 2, 2011)

Um, guys?
Check /b/ for a sec...


----------



## Heimdal (May 2, 2011)

Iudicium_86 said:


> Just gonna throw my own honest view that it's a moral obligation to kill and/or torture... in some cases.
> 
> I view things in the grander scale. Lets call it "Total sum of happiness". If an individual is killing or even influencing others to take lives and therefore taking away from this total sum, then it's a moral obligation to terminate those individuals. Through _inaction_ you are allowing the total sum to diminish. As for torture, same applies for any group or individuals who have to be forced into revealing information that will lead to saving/sparing this total sum. I'm the guy that wouldn't hesitate to take a [negative] life to save another [positive] life, even more-so when it's one life to save countless others. It's just the math and making sure to make choices that maintain or even maximize the total sum of happiness.


 
I would fully agree with you if we were talking about comic book super villains. Were you aware that they think of themselves as the good guys and America as the bad guys? This is a clusterfuck of "we deserve life more than you because we decided we are better."


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

larry669 said:


> Um, guys?
> Check /b/ for a sec...



I don't visit BS sites.


----------



## Hateful Bitch (May 2, 2011)

larry669 said:


> Um, guys?
> Check /b/ for a sec...


 
Why
What's wrong with it

Did you spit in it


----------



## Iudicium_86 (May 2, 2011)

Taken from another forum, which in turn taken from another forum, and said to be taken from tumblr... 
[Dammit, why does IMG code have to be off >.< ]



> Osama is dead.
> 
> So troops can come home now?
> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9o7s8dzph1qbf2ys.gif
> ...


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> This is also important. Osama was of almost no threat. He was killed as a trophy, he was killed for revenge, a way to appease the masses cry for blood.


 
He was also a wanted man for being responsible for the deaths of US national abroad and attacks on federal facilities.  Osama was killed in the act of apprehension.

If it wasn't readily apparent, our military actions abroad haven't been solely about Bin Laden.  If they were, I'd agree with you he was just a war trophy for us.  But in the midst of everything else that's been going on in Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq, we had reliable intel which pinpointed his position.  The opportunity for a military option was available to take Osama in, dead or alive.

I highly doubt, if any of us were in Obama's position, that we'd simply say "let's let this one slide."  We took the opportunity, Bin Laden and his people resisted, and he inevitably was shot and killed.  This happens when apprehending armed and dangerous suspects.  Look at the 1997 North Hollywood Shootout as an example.  When you're dealing with two forces with military grade weaponry, chances are someone's not going to make it out alive.

Would we have liked to have taken him alive?  Probably.  But as you've admitted, this was a virtual impossibility given the situation.  This isn't about trophies.  This was about apprehending an international criminal who wouldn't be taken alive.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember there being much of a fervor for Bin Laden's blood the past couple of years and this news came out of left field on us.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Sportsmanship, books...


----------



## virus (May 2, 2011)

Osama has been dead for 9 years. He died of kidney failure in 2002. They have it on record. In 2003 reports went out that they may use his death for propaganda. So instead of letting that bomb off early they put him on ice literally until today.

You won't see the body, you'll never see the body. You'll only get shitty photoshops.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

larry669 said:


> Um, guys?
> Check /b/ for a sec...


 
I did.  Ponies.  It's ponies all the way down. :V


----------



## Hateful Bitch (May 2, 2011)

larry669 said:


> Um, guys?
> Check /b/ for a sec...


 
Actually no this is fantastic and I love you for this.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> I did.  Ponies.  It's ponies all the way down. :V


 It's always ponies. Every thread is poni thread.


----------



## Larry (May 2, 2011)

Hateful Bitch said:


> Actually no this is fantastic and I love you for this.


 
Finally, someone loves me on here. Thanks.


----------



## 8-bit (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> I did.  Ponies.  It's ponies all the way down. :V


 
"And God looked upon the multitude of ponies, and saw that it was good."


----------



## Grey Wolverine (May 2, 2011)

larry669 said:


> Finally, someone loves me on here. Thanks.


 
I love you.


----------



## WolfGuy100 (May 2, 2011)

Deo, I do understand how do you feel about this, but it HAD to be done. Either he had to be captured or killed.

Now, my turn to say something here. I'm glad he's dead for good although, Obama did what Bush couldn't do. Obama sent a special team to get him and it took him about two years to prepare that! Bush is just a fucking retard and sent troop to Iraq for no reason and spent money on that, causing our economy to go bad. I'm glad I voted for Obama since I knew something good would come out from him. Obama worked hard on that while Bush did nothing, only just sit and spin in his chair.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> There is no good out of killing a man, and there is no right to kill another human being. And further on that it is disgusting to not only deprive someone of life, but to take pleasure from it and celebrate it.


 
Think about what you're saying just for a moment.  Did you talk to anyone personally about what their feelings are on this outcome?  Did they all say  "YEAH I HATED THE FUCKER GLAD HES DEAD LETS PARTY NOW WOOOO!!"

Honestly, It wouldn't surprise me at all if only a small 20-30% of the population with a positive reaction to this have that mentality.  I know that for myself, as I stated earlier, I feel a sense of relief and justice, but now I mostly just feel plain.  Today is a new day, and what's done is done.  I don't feel like celebrating or cheering, but I do feel like taking a sigh of relief.

Also, it's very clear that you have your views and at least here, it seems to be a minority view... But trying to make people change to your opinion by telling them they're wrong, stupid or a moron is counter productive, and does not help your cause.  Just agree to disagree.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> Think about what you're saying just for a moment.  Did you talk to anyone personally about what their feelings are on this outcome?  Did they all say  "YEAH I HATED THE FUCKER GLAD HES DEAD LETS PARTY NOW WOOOO!!" I don't feel like celebrating or cheering, but I do feel like taking a sigh of relief.


I'm moreso reacting to local events. 1,500 people celebrated, many cloaked in Amercian flags lit fireworks, sounded of megaphones and air horns, and sang "God Bless America" from roughly 12pm to 3 am here.
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/collection_517035d6-7481-11e0-b0ed-001cc4c03286.html




Teneba said:


> Also, it's very clear that you have your views and at least here, it seems to be a minority view... But trying to make people change to your opinion by telling them they're wrong, stupid or a moron is counter productive, and does not help your cause.  Just agree to disagree.


 So as a minority viewpoint I should silence myself and allow you all to continue your circle jerk? I'm not here to change opinions, though I do hope, but I'm here to make you think on your actions, your reactions, and your morality. And some of the things people have said were moronic, and I will continue to point out other things as stupid if people continue to say them.


----------



## nightmarethestallion (May 2, 2011)

Killing Bin Laden was like kicking a hornet's nest down a hill, knocking over a pile of hornets nests at the bottom.
We just killed Al Qaeda's leader. They are going to want revenge, treating Osama as a martyr for the cause, and will attack us with more firepower than before.
You think 9/11 was bad? I suspect it's about to get far worse.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm moreso reacting to local events. 1,500 people celebrated, many cloaked in Amercian flags lit fireworks, sounded of megaphones and air horns, and sang "God Bless America" from roughly 12pm to 3 am here.
> http://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/collection_517035d6-7481-11e0-b0ed-001cc4c03286.html



I have to agree. Celebrating his death in that way imo, makes them no better than he was.



> So as a minority viewpoint I should silence myself and allow you all to continue your circle jerk? I'm not here to change opinions, though I do hope, but I'm here to make you think on your actions, your reactions, and your morality. And some of the things people have said were moronic, and I will continue to point out other things as stupid if people continue to say them.



In my opinion, if he was taken alive and tried for his crimes, he would have likely been sentenced to death. I feel the US troops did what they felt was necessary. If I was a cop or in the military and I had a gun pointed at me I'm going to fire mine to protect myself.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'm moreso reacting to local events. 1,500 people celebrated, many cloaked in Amercian flags lit fireworks, sounded of megaphones and air horns, and sang "God Bless America" from roughly 12pm to 3 am here.



Well, then I hope the majority of those people were in the right state of mind and not the mentality you've been talking about.  And no, I'm not telling you to stop trying to state your opinion, but you can't honestly say that your opinion is fact, when it's really just an opinion (or a moral belief...same thing really)


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> Well, then I hope the majority of those people were in the right state of mind and not the mentality you've been talking about.  And no, I'm not telling you to stop trying to state your opinion, but you can't honestly say that your opinion is fact, when it's really just an opinion (or a moral belief...same thing really)


 
Those who are out celebrating a humans death obviously have no morale.


----------



## WingDog (May 2, 2011)

I don't normally drink beer, but when I do, it's to celebrate the death of a terrorist.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Those who are out celebrating a humans death obviously have no morale.


 who the fuck needs morale anyways


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> who the fuck needs morale anyways



Those of us who have some sort of decency.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Those of us who have some sort of decency.


 You realize youre typing this on a furry forum


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> You realize youre typing this on a furry forum



You do realize you need some sort of morale to be against and for, what your petitions in your sig are against and for.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

I guess Randy hasn't quite caught on that Clayton is a fucking idiot. Maybe you two deserve each other.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> I guess Randy hasn't quite caught on that Clayton is a fucking idiot. Maybe you two deserve each other.



I'm far from an idiot. I have lead many people irl to believe I am quite the idiot, then I come back and bite them in the ass when they least expect it.

People start to believe I am stupid, and soon they start trying to pull the wool over my eyes, but they soon learn I am not as stupid as I make myself out to be.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Teneba said:


> Well, then I hope the majority of those people were in the right state of mind and not the mentality you've been talking about.  And no, I'm not telling you to stop trying to state your opinion, but you can't honestly say that your opinion is fact, when it's really just an opinion (or a moral belief...same thing really)


 There are moral beliefs, and there are moral facts.
A moral fact is that we should not get pleasure from the death of another human being. Moral facts are things that you really can't oppose on moral levels. You can't honestly say that "Yes, it is indeed good, and morally acceptable, to enjoy, celebrate, and get pleasure from a person's death." Such a claim is not morally defendable.
 That is why I say "moral fact" and not "my moral opninion/belief"/


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

I have to take Deo's side with this.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> What would I have done about what?
> 
> 
> *So revenge makes everything better?*
> ...



If you want to just sit there and get wiped of the face of the earth without doing anything. Go ahead. But I'm not.

You're simplifying this WAY to much. How i feel has already been said in this thread. Nothing i say would get anything more than a stereotype. I know you furries well enough to know how you'd react.

PHOTOS OH GOD! IM A CREEPER. I't was PART of my fucking job. Now get your heads out of your collective asses.


----------



## Teneba (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> There are moral beliefs, and there are moral facts.
> A moral fact is that we should not get pleasure from the death of another human being. Moral facts are things that you really can't oppose on moral levels. You can't honestly say that "Yes, it is indeed good, and morally acceptable, to enjoy, celebrate, and get pleasure from a person's death." Such a claim is not morally defendable.
> That is why I say "moral fact" and not "my moral opninion/belief"/


 
I can agree with you on that point to some degree, even though I have a difficult time accepting the phrase "moral fact."  Well spoken.


----------



## LizardKing (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> You can't honestly say that "Yes, it is indeed good, and morally acceptable, to enjoy, celebrate, and get pleasure from a person's death." Such a claim is not morally defendable.
> That is why I say "moral fact" and not "my moral opninion/belief"/


 
I'm not sure believers in ritual sacrifice would agree with you on that, whether as an individual or as a society.



MaverickCowboy said:


> .



"Except"


----------



## Torrijos-sama (May 2, 2011)

Who will we hate now?


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> You do realize you need some sort of morale to be against and for, what your petitions in your sig are against and for.


You do realize you have to be a fucking moron to not agree with my views in my sig



Wolf-Bone said:


> I guess Randy hasn't quite caught on that Clayton is a fucking idiot. Maybe you two deserve each other.


 I'd date Randy/ Also youre mean and you hurt my feelings


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> You do realize you have to be a fucking moron to not agree with my views in my sig



Surprisingly, there are a lot of morons on this planet.




> I'd date Randy/ Also youre mean and you hurt my feelings



Oh murrr.  <3


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Surprisingly, there are a lot of morons on this planet.
> 
> Oh murrr.  <3


 
randy are you a virgin, cause i only date virgins
i find people who have sex before they let me mount them to be disgusting adn sluts and whores.


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

I killed him.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> I come back and bite them in the ass


 
Do Not Want



LizardKing said:


> I'm not sure believers in ritual sacrifice would agree with you on that, whether as an individual or as a society.



We already have that. It's called capital punishment and what most wars nowadays amount to. "Oh shit, we got all these young folks and there's no way in hell they'll all be gainfully employed the way the economy's going. hey I know, let's ship them off to Camelfuckistan *to die*". WTF do you think human sacrifice boiled down to in the past once all the rationalizations about "The Gods" and whatnot were stripped away? Killing prisoners of war and your own surplus population so there'd be fewer mouths to feed, nothing more.



Clayton said:


> randy are you a virgin, cause i only date virgins


 
In Randy's case, I don't think you need to worry about that :3


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

JesusFish said:


> Who will we hate now?


 
I'm sure Big Brother will find someone in time for the next Two Minute Hate.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> randy are you a virgin, cause i only date virgins
> i find people who have sex before they let me mount them to be disgusting adn sluts and whores.



For me to know and you to find out 



Wolf-Bone said:


> Do Not Want



You lie! :v


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> No, killing is very bad.



Funny, you say abortion is okay...



Deo said:


> This is also important. Osama was of almost no  threat. He was killed as a trophy, he was killed for revenge, a way to  appease the masses cry for blood.


 
Again, maybe you should read about how the military found a crap load of intel in the compound he was living in, which by the way wasn't in a cave...


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I'm not sure believers in ritual sacrifice would agree with you on that, whether as an individual or as a society.
> 
> 
> 
> "Except"


 What are you trying to paint me as now?


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> What are you trying to paint me as now?



My paint pot ran dry.


----------



## Torrijos-sama (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Funny, you say abortion is okay...



What are your opinions on stillbirths and miscarriages?

You know, where God essentially commits abortion?


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> For me to know and you to find out


 omg now im determined


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



JesusFish said:


> What are your opinions on stillbirths and miscarriages?
> 
> You know, where God essentially commits abortion?


 
God doesn't do anything, nature does.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Do Not Want
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are the most absurd person i know.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Funny, you say abortion is okay...


 That is another topic entirely, start a new thead and do not derail this one.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> I'm sure Big Brother will find someone in time for the next Two Minute Hate.


 
When in doubt, n*ggers and Jews  Speaking of which, The Root has a pretty good, brief article on what people like me and Deo are saying about how it's wrong to get overly euphoric about something like this, and they quote a Rabbi to back up their argument. So there you go, folks, all you weak ass motherfuckers need look no further if you want to shoot our argument down using as little brain and as much bellythink as possible.



MaverickCowboy said:


> You are the most absurd person i know.


 
And you're incredibly fucking naive if you think the leaders of civilizations advanced enough to have any sort of technology, art and architecture didn't do basically the same fucking shit as us, for the same evil reasons, just with more romantic rationalizations to make it easier for the people doing it as well as the victims.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

> "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not  rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate  multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of  stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate  cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
> 
> ~Martin Luther King Jr




Just sayin'.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Is it weak to take pleasure in death?
Is it necessarily a moment of weakness?
I suppose it is harder to not hate, and harder to overcome our malice. And I suppose it could be said that it is easier to dehumanize and gain pleasure in a persons's death. But is it because of weakness or flaw of character or a weak moment in our lives that we enjoy and celebrate this man's death? 
I'm not certain myself. And I'd like to tease the idea out, if anyone is willing to discuss it.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not   rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate   multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of   stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate   cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
> ~Martin Luther King Jr"
> 
> Just sayin'.


 He did have a wonderful way with words. The world is worse off without him. :C


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> When in doubt, n*ggers and Jews  Speaking of which, The Root has a pretty good, brief article on what people like me and Deo are saying about how it's wrong to get overly euphoric about something like this, and they quote a Rabbi to back up their argument. So there you go, folks, all you weak ass motherfuckers need look no further if you want to shoot our argument down using as little brain and as much bellythink as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> And you're incredibly fucking naive if you think the leaders of civilizations advanced enough to have any sort of technology, art and architecture didn't do basically the same fucking shit as us, for the same evil reasons, just with more romantic rationalizations to make it easier for the people doing it as well as the victims.




Put a fucking sock in it you genocidal bigot.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> When in doubt,



Doubleplusungood, dude.



> "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
> 
> ~Martin Luther King Jr




I want to frame this.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

Deo, after sitting through a day of high school redneck freshmen shouting "DOOD, OSAMA'S FUCKIN DEAD! YEA I KNOW WOO", I fully agree with you here. It's barbaric, uncivilised and frankly disgusting to worship death like that.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> That is another topic entirely, start a new thead and do not derail this one.



Don't even think to backtrack here Deo, you said killing is wrong, period. Or shall I find the quotes for you...

Second, you then posted that Osama was in a cave in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. When he actually was in a million dollar compound living a good life, add to that, the military found a ton of intel in the compound.

Third, the Navy Seals team was briefed that if it was possible that they were to capture Osama, but thats kinda hard in a 40 minute long firefight.

Fourth, I guess if all killing is always wrong, then you can go around and tell all the families that were affected by Osama Bib Laden that he didn't deserve to die. Go on, go tell that to the families face.

Fifth, if all killing is wrong, then the entire international court is in the wrong for convicting and condemning countless of people to death for crimes against humanity. And again, you can go to all the families that lost love ones to to the men who killed their families.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Fourth, I guess if all killing is always wrong, then you can go around and tell all the families that were affected by Osama Bib Laden that he didn't deserve to die. Go on, go tell that to the families face.


 This has no part in your argument. :S


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Icky said:


> Deo, after sitting through a day of high school redneck freshmen shouting "DOOD, OSAMA'S FUCKIN DEAD! YEA I KNOW WOO", I fully agree with you here. It's barbaric, uncivilised and frankly disgusting to worship death like that.


 


> sitting through a day of high school redneck freshmen





> day of high school redneck freshmen





> high school redneck freshmen



Kinda tells you all you need to know right there.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Is it weak to take pleasure in death?
> Is it necessarily a moment of weakness?
> I suppose it is harder to not hate, and harder to overcome our malice. And I suppose it could be said that it is easier to dehumanize and gain pleasure in a persons's death. But is it because of weakness or flaw of character or a weak moment in our lives that we enjoy and celebrate this man's death?
> I'm not certain myself. And I'd like to tease the idea out, if anyone is willing to discuss it.


 
We recognize it as both easy and wrong, and I think we justify and excuse it by a desire to bring closure to tragedies, a desire to find some easy way to heal the wounds inflicted upon us long after they've become permanent scars.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Put a fucking sock in it you genocidal bigot.


 
Yes, I'm Hitler for thinking other civilizations are Hitler. Everyone's Hitler. Your mom is Hitler. This thread is Hitler. Everyone in this thread is Hitler.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Don't even think to backtrack here Deo, you said killing is wrong, period. Or shall I find the quotes for you...


 
Rukh, take your arguments for moral relativism elsewhere, we're trying to have an actual discussion on the topic.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Clayton said:


> This has no part in your argument. :S


 
Yeah, it does. Deo said it herself that people (Osama) didn't deserve to die, therefore I ask her to go and tell that to the families that have lost loved ones to 9/11 that the mastermind behind the attacks didn't deserve to die for the crime against humanity.



Mojotech said:


> Rukh, take your arguments for moral relativism  elsewhere, we're trying to have an actual discussion on the  topic.


Considering I wasn't the one who even started that argument, how about no, I won't.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Yeah, it does. Deo said it herself that people (Osama) didn't deserve to die, therefore I ask her to go and tell that to the families that have lost loved ones to 9/11 that the mastermind behind the attacks didn't deserve to die for the crime against humanity.


 
Your sig talks about being "crucified with Christ", which is a load of shit. Your argument is invalid.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

You two are getting your pants up in a twist for nothing.

Obviosuly, you're completely barbaric and inhumane to even celebrate the death of a mass murderer. So what if the International community recognized him as a terrorist?
So what if he was trying to stir up civil wars? Attack other nations and Muslims not of his category? Had plans to further attack Europe and even plans of nuclear warfare?

That man. THAT MAN. 

Obviously has the same rights, completely . As us civilians. So what if 3,000 civilians died? They were Americans!
I mean Americans are trash you know. They suck up the worlds resources. ungrateful fucks living off the backs of minorities!
Seriously, Osama was a freedom fighter, he just wanted "peace" and freedom. He only resorted to violence and killing innocent civilians because it was the ONLY WAY.
Those Brits in london. totally deserved it. fuckign brits and their past colonizations.  those fucking Spaniards and and their conquest days. Obviously a 5 year old girl is just as guilty as her ancestors!
You guys are totally missing the big picture. Osama is a hero. a martyr. Down with the WEST!


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Wolf-Bone said:


> Your sig talks about being "crucified with Christ", which is a load of shit. Your argument is invalid.


 
You want my sig put in simpler terms so that you can even understand it Wolf-Bone? I can do that.


I am a walking dead man. Do you get that, or does it still confuse you to no end?
How we get back on topic now.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Wolf-Bone said:


> Your sig talks about being "crucified with Christ", which is a load of shit. Your argument is invalid.


 
Yup. using a persons religion as a reason to completely invalidate their argument. (not that i agree with him). But just shows how prejudiced you are of everyone, while calling them such as well.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> You two are getting your pants up in a twist for nothing.
> 
> Obviosuly, you're completely barbaric and inhumane to even celebrate the death of a mass murderer. So what if the International community recognized him as a terrorist?
> So what if he was trying to stir up civil wars? Attack other nations and Muslims not of his category? Had plans to further attack Europe and even plans of nuclear warfare?
> ...


 
Yeah, and you totally flipped Obama with Osama that many times purely as a Freudian slip. Get fucked.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Folks, next time you hit "Reply With Quote," hit the "Go Advanced" button and fix the post title.  Five hundred posts in, and there's still a threadlet with the Ashcrofted post titles.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Yeah, and you totally flipped Obama with Osama that many times purely as a Freudian slip. Get fucked.


 
Fuck you too!

Why don't you go blow up some school in new york why don't you?

Should'nt you be busy raping some blue eyed girl on your quest to blend the white race out of existance?


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Yeah, it does. Deo said it herself that people (Osama) didn't deserve to die, therefore I ask her to go and tell that to the families that have lost loved ones to 9/11 that the mastermind behind the attacks didn't deserve to die for the crime against humanity.


No it fucking doesn't, dude. It's a strawman.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> No it fucking doesn't, dude. It's a strawman.


 
I'd still like to see this entertained though.

BTW, Rukh. I hate you. Just so we're clear.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> I WANNA TALK ABOUT UNREALTED STUFF!!!


 MAKE ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD. 
I will account for my posts in this thread, in your new thread. However, I refuse to discuss this different matter in this specific thread and keel haul it off topic.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> MAKE ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD.
> I will account for my posts in this thread, in your new thread. However, I refuse to discuss this different matter in this specific thread and keel haul it off topic.


 

I still want to know why you were trying to defame me because of my work at ground zero as if i was some sort of creeper.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Fuck you too!
> 
> Why don't you go blow up some school in new york why don't you?
> 
> Should'nt you be busy raping some blue eyed girl on your quest to blend the white race out of existance?


 STOP. You are not being reasonable. This ad hominem needs to end. You cannot accuse him of wanting to blow up schools just out of spite because you are angered. That is petty and childish, take your childish antics out of the thread.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> You two are getting your pants up in a twist for nothing.
> 
> Obviosuly, you're completely barbaric and inhumane to even celebrate the death of a mass murderer. So what if the International community recognized him as a terrorist?
> So what if he was trying to stir up civil wars? Attack other nations and Muslims not of his category? Had plans to further attack Europe and even plans of nuclear warfare?
> ...


 
Strawman, strawman, strawman.  What the fuck is so hard to understand about the concept of pacifism that you have to resort to shit like this?


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> STOP. You are not being reasonable. This ad hominem needs to end. You cannot accuse him of wanting to blow up schools just out of spite because you are angered. That is petty and childish, take your childish antics out of the thread.


 
Don't stop him now, he's being a mad bro and I just made popcorn.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Yeah, it does. Deo said it herself that people (Osama) didn't deserve to die, therefore I ask her to go and tell that to the families that have lost loved ones to 9/11 that the mastermind behind the attacks didn't deserve to die for the crime against humanity.


 I'm not malicious. I'm not going to bring up a touchy subject with the intent to cause emotional pain to those who have suffered loss. Yes, I will speak my opinions openly, but by no means will I purposefully seek out specific people whom have lost loved ones with the intent to harm them or remind them of their family tragedy. Surely you do not encourage such caustic behavior, Rukh. That's not what decent people tell others to do.


----------



## goldfischen (May 2, 2011)

Ad hominem, ad hominem everywhere!


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> STOP. You are not being reasonable. This ad hominem needs to end. You cannot accuse him of wanting to blow up schools just out of spite because you are angered. That is petty and childish, take your childish antics out of the thread.


 
You're the one to talk hitting us with a broad brush as barbarians Deo.
You're the same type of enabler who takes an utter fucking piss on service members and the "you're all barbaric baby killers storming into the middle east for oil" mentality.
WolfBone here does in fact fancy the idea of completely wiping out Caucasians. He's the most fucked up individual on this board and everyone knows it. 

I'm tired im beeing nice over this subject. Almost everyone in this thread has the most disconnected view from the severity of this whole thing.
The gloves come off.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> MAKE ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD.
> I will account for my posts in this thread, in your new thread. However, I refuse to discuss this different matter in this specific thread and keel haul it off topic.


 
Your the one who brought all this up. So I am posting the questions. Don't back off and say don't change the subject. Because I am not. You brought up morality, so I posted questions on morality Deo. You said killing is wrong period. So do I need to dig up the post you made about abortion being okay? Your wishy washy at best right now Deo, and it shows that killing is only wrong when you think it is, but its okay when you think it is. Which goes against your entire statement that killing is always wrong...

Killing someone is not the first choice, but, when no other option is left, is the nessesary action left when said individual will not stop is harming and killing others.

Shall I compile a list of individuals that have been condemed to death for crimes against humanity by the international courts/and countries own courts?

You are dodging the questions I have been posting.

Add to that, you post how there are fundamental moral truths even though you have said its all relative, so again, care to explain yourself?




Deo said:


> I'm not malicious. I'm not going to bring up a touchy  subject with the intent to cause emotional pain to those who have  suffered loss. Yes, I will speak my opinions openly, but by no means  will I purposefully seek out specific people whom have lost loved ones  with the intent to harm them or remind them of their family tragedy.  Surely you do not encourage such caustic behavior, Rukh. That's not what  decent people tell others to do.


 
No, it means you can't stand by your own argument at all. You said killing is always wrong. So, I am asking you to stand by that when you have to look into the eyes of someone who lost their mother/father,sister, or brother in any of the attacks Osama committed and tell them that its wrong that we killed Osama Bin Laden.

You want to stand by your "morals"? Then do it, fully commit to it. In the most difficult place you can think of. And if not, then admit that you can't/won't stand by your argument.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Lobar said:


> Strawman, strawman, strawman.  What the fuck is so hard to understand about the concept of pacifism that you have to resort to shit like this?


 
Thats not a hit at pacifism. that's a hit at wolf-bone. And only wolf-bone.

I have nothing to say about Pacifists. Irrelevant to my anger.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

I'm covering up m'head.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> I still want to know why you were trying to defame me because of my work at ground zero as if i was some sort of creeper.


 I just found it odd that you would personally still own and keep photos of dead people's maimed bodies. If you were working and the photos were for documenting this international crime, then would you not have turned them all in? Why would you keep such photos? Why would you want to give the pictures of dead people to others? It's disrespectful of the dead to shuffle photos of them around purely for shock value and to add an emotional low-ball to your argument.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Your the one who brought all this up. So I am posting the questions. Don't back off and say don't change the subject. Because I am not. You brought up morality, so I posted questions on morality Deo. You said killing is wrong period. So do I need to dig up the post you made about abortion being okay? Your wishy washy at best right now Deo, and it shows that killing is only wrong when you think it is, but its okay when you think it is. Which goes against your entire statement that killing is always wrong...
> 
> Killing someone is not the first choice, but, when no other option is left, is the nessesary action left when said individual will not stop is harming and killing others.
> 
> ...


 First off, Rukh, you're being pushy as fucking hell because of Deo's opinion. If Deo thinks killing is wrong, that's fine. If Deo thinks killing is right, that's fine. If Deo thinks killing is fine sometimes and other times not, that's fine as well.

Take your strawmen out of here and go have a fucking teaparty where you can all argue amongst yourselves. It's getting very obnoxious.



Deo said:


> I just found it odd that you would personally still own and keep photos of dead people's maimed bodies. If you were working and the photos were for documenting this international crime, then would you not have turned them all in? Why would you keep such photos? Why would you want to give the pictures of dead people to others? It's disrespectful of the dead to shuffle photos of them around purely for shock value and to add an emotional low-ball to your argument.


 idk how well you know Maverick, but I really don't think he's gonna murrpurr over photos of innocent, dead Americans.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Your the one who brought all this up. So I am posting the questions. Don't back off and say don't change the subject. Because I am not. You brought up morality, so I posted questions on morality Deo. You said killing is wrong period. So do I need to dig up the post you made about abortion being okay? Your wishy washy at best right now Deo, and it shows that killing is only wrong when you think it is, but its okay when you think it is. Which goes against your entire statement that killing is always wrong...
> 
> Killing someone is not the first choice, but, when no other option is left, is the nessesary action left when said individual will not stop is harming and killing others.
> 
> ...


 
Rukh, you are an attention whore. You wear your faith on your sleeve. You are one of the biggest fucking disgraces to Christians everywhere. You do us a great disservice. I'm a terrible Christian but you take the fucking cake. You need to stop.
You don't know what Christianity is. you DONT fucking know what you're talking about. CHRISTIANITY is not a fucking political party. STOP IT.


----------



## Lobar (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Your the one who brought all this up. So I am posting the questions. Don't back off and say don't change the subject. Because I am not. You brought up morality, so I posted questions on morality Deo. You said killing is wrong period. So do I need to dig up the post you made about abortion being okay? Your wishy washy at best right now Deo, and it shows that killing is only wrong when you think it is, but its okay when you think it is. Which goes against your entire statement that killing is always wrong...


 
It is obviously disputed by Deo and other pro-choice supporters that a fetus constitutes a person, therefore it is irrelevant to her moral stance on killing people.  Make a different fucking thread.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> You're the one to talk hitting us with a broad brush as barbarians Deo.
> You're the same type of enabler who takes an utter fucking piss on service members and the "you're all barbaric baby killers storming into the middle east for oil" mentality.
> WolfBone here does in fact fancy the idea of completely wiping out Caucasians. He's the most fucked up individual on this board and everyone knows it.
> 
> ...


Please don't insult me with assumptions on my character and my beliefs, I also ask that you refrain from making things up about me such as "You're the same type of enabler who takes an utter fucking piss on service members". I support the men and women in military service, I only wish we had no need for military at all. I am saddened that good people are placed into situations where they are forced to use lethal force to defend themselves, it honestly depresses me to no end. I support them, but I cannot support killing.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> I just found it odd that you would personally still own and keep photos of dead people's maimed bodies. If you were working and the photos were for documenting this international crime, then would you not have turned them all in? Why would you keep such photos? Why would you want to give the pictures of dead people to others? It's disrespectful of the dead to shuffle photos of them around purely for shock value and to add an emotional low-ball to your argument.


 *

 Why would you keep such photos?*
In case the media altered photos (for whatever reason), I would still have the original un altered documents.

I took them. They are very personal to me. I don't know how to describe it.

and I was angry as fuck. I've changed my mind as that would an offense to the dead and the families. But I still believe that people should see the entire event for what it is.

Not some text book or forum argument "Pffttt, 9/11 so what? UMAD AMERICA?"


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Please don't insult me with assumptions on my character and my beliefs, I also ask that you refrain from making things up about me such as "You're the same type of enabler who takes an utter fucking piss on service members". I support the men and women in military service, I only wish we had no need for military at all. I am saddened that good people are placed into situations where they are forced to use lethal force to defend themselves, it honestly depresses me to no end. I support them, *but I cannot support killing*.


 

Here's the problem.

I'n order to stop innocent civilians from being harmed. Bad things need to happen to bad people. Because they would under no other circumstances. STOP.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> and I was angry as fuck. I've changed my mind as that would an offense to the dead and the families. But I still believe that people should see the entire event for what it is.
> 
> Not some text book or forum argument "Pffttt, 9/11 so what? UMAD AMERICA?"


I don't think that anyone is mitigating the horrors that happened on that day. There is no mentality of "U MAD AMURRICA?" in this thread over 9/11. 



Rukh, look at this: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/98405-Abortion.?p=2519740#post2519740
Like I said, I refuse to discuss a topic that is not relevant to this thread.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> Rukh, you are an attention whore. You wear your faith on your sleeve. You are one of the biggest fucking disgraces to Christians everywhere. You do us a great disservice. I'm a terrible Christian but you take the fucking cake. You need to stop.
> You don't know what Christianity is. you DONT fucking know what you're talking about. CHRISTIANITY is not a fucking political party. STOP IT.


 I am so glad you said this. He never listens to us, and it gives me hope that perhaps you're the person to make him realize his error. One Christian to another. Thank you.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> I am so glad you said this. He never listens to us, and it gives me hope that perhaps you're the person to make him realize his error. One Christian to another. Thank you.


 
Your optimism is applaudable, but this is Rukh here. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Nearly all of the subjects raised in this thread's most recent posts are worthy of this forum (for a rather loose definition of worthy), but they are not appropriate for _THIS _thread.

*Do not take this thread off topic!  If you want to argue another topic, make a thread for it!*


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Please don't insult me with assumptions on my character and my beliefs,


Why? You freely attack and insult others characters or beliefs.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Why? You freely attack and insult others characters or beliefs.



>>Pot calling kettle black


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> I don't think that anyone is mitigating the horrors that happened on that day. There is no mentality of "U MAD AMURRICA?" in this thread over 9/11.



I failed to state, the mentality is here, just not posted in this thread. I know some(for a fact) in this thread harbor such feelings, some have posted support forbin laden on FA and Facebook..(and not in an attention seeking manner) I'm still raging and rampaging. 

Either way, the whole "Fucking rednecks cheering on his death is barbaric" statement is fucking retarded too. I know its just an opinion. But it pisses me the fuck off.

And ALL of you. I know most of you are guilty of being anti-military. "Fuckign rednecks killign sand people" "gun toting racists" etc. etc. stereotypes.

This needs to stop too. I know you think its funny, trolling etc. But it seriously needs to stop. Not just here. EVERYWHERE.


Don't complain about us being cranky assholes when you're constantly bad mouthing us and pissing down out backs.

We go fucking FIGHT, get maimed, killed. And we get the "Well you're a sellout for joining the military. See? You shouldn't have joined! You're a PAWN for the RETHUGLIGANS. You only joined because you hate sandniggers."

NO. FUCK YOU.


That is NOT how it is. and you FUCKING know it.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> I am so glad you said this. He never listens to us, and it gives me hope that perhaps you're the person to make him realize his error. One Christian to another. Thank you.


 
I've FUCKING told him before. But he just thinks I'm not a "REAL" Christian.

And the rest on here think I'm just an Inbred.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

So
About that Osama guy eh, what a fuckin goof

harhar
I HEARD THERE WAS VIDEOS GOING TO BE RELEASED THAT HE MADE! Probably something about  "if you get this, I'm dead and death to americans" or something. idk. I don't think they've been released yet.



MaverickCowboy said:


> I've FUCKING told him before. But he just thinks I'm not a "REAL" Christian.
> 
> And the rest on here think I'm just an Inbred.


 Just ignore him AKA don't quote his posts or reply t him


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> You HYPOCRITICAL FUCK! Y DO YOU DO THIS!?
> 
> Go shove a splintery cross up your ass.


 
Wow.

That's like, the least classy way to EVER try and make a christian mad.

C'mon, 'Maverick'. You're better than that.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> I've FUCKING told him before. But he just thinks I'm not a "REAL" Christian.
> 
> And the rest on here think I'm just an Inbred.


 
Honestly I don't really remember seeing you before this thread, so I don't really have an opinion of you aside from you needing to chill down and stopping with the strawmen.

Although you do get bonus points for denouncing dangerous fundies (IE Rukh) when you encounter them.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> I failed to state, the mentality is here, just not posted in this thread. I know some(for a fact) in this thread harbor such feelings, some have posted support forbin laden on FA and Facebook..(and not in an attention seeking manner) I'm still raging and rampaging.


That is also sad. I do not support Bin Laden. I've said it before that I do not support his actions, his murder, his campaign, or his views. I only support the morality that though his death could be seen as necessary, it is not something we should be deriving pleasure, joy, or excitement from. That is why I condemn the celebration of his death.



MaverickCowboy said:


> And ALL of you. I know most of you are guilty of being anti-military. "Fuckign rednecks killign sand people" "gun toting racists" etc. etc. stereotypes.This needs to stop too. I know you think its funny, trolling etc. But it seriously needs to stop. Not just here. EVERYWHERE.
> 
> Don't complain about us being cranky assholes when you're constantly bad mouthing us and pissing down out backs.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
That's not true. Many of us have voiced our support for the men and women in our military, we support the human beings, but not the crusade they are forced into. I don't think anyone is anti-military in the sense that they have a grudge against the people in the military, only over how the military as an organization operates and the toll of death on all sides. You're using a straw man argument. Or you are displacing the anger you have at other people wrongfully on us without realizing that we do not bear the burden of other people's words. No one hear has said anything like what you mention, and I believe you are thoroughly mistaken in your anger and in your haste.


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> I just found it odd that you would personally still own and keep photos of dead people's maimed bodies. If you were working and the photos were for documenting this international crime, then would you not have turned them all in? Why would you keep such photos? Why would you want to give the pictures of dead people to others? It's disrespectful of the dead to shuffle photos of them around purely for shock value and to add an emotional low-ball to your argument.



 You are guilty of showing pictures of "shock value" in my last thread. What makes YOU so moral? You showed the link to the pictures in order to achieve a sense of revenge. You are a hypocrite. Asking others of why they show pictures of sick shit, when you are in fact guilty of the same thing. Well, I'm not surprised. You are a "glorified" misery infection.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> I've FUCKING told him before. But he just thinks I'm not a "REAL" Christian.
> 
> And the rest on here think I'm just an Inbred.


 He's a tad dense. I hope that sooner or later he will calm down and stop his hate, but that may be wishful thinking on my part. Don't allow him to get to you too much. I honestly think he means well even though he goes about everything in a manner as obnoxious as humanly possible.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Exunod said:


> Wow.
> 
> That's like, the least classy way to EVER try and make a christian mad.
> 
> C'mon, 'Maverick'. You're better than that.


 

It's Rukh. Nothing else so far has gotten through to him.


----------



## Xenke (May 2, 2011)

And of course, just like any other famous person death, there are distasteful flash games already created.

Because the death of others should be made into entertainment, obviously.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Xenke said:


> And of course, just like any other famous person death, there are distasteful flash games already created.
> 
> Because the death of others should be made into entertainment, obviously.


 Oh god. Seriously?
I am at a loss of words. A real person's death made into a game for amusement? Oh. Oh. I feel like I am going to be sick. My stomach is in knots.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

This thread is dicks.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

Xenke said:


> And of course, just like any other famous person death, there are distasteful flash games already created.
> 
> Because the death of others should be made into entertainment, obviously.


 
Coping mechanisms and all that.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 2, 2011)

Xenke said:


> And of course, just like any other famous person death, there are distasteful flash games already created.
> 
> Because the death of others should be made into entertainment, obviously.


 
I think the important question here is: does it have good gameplay mechanics?


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

DP oops!


----------



## ShÃ nwÃ ng (May 2, 2011)

I do relish UBL's death. I didn't dance in the streets, launch fireworks off, or get up all on my facebook and start shit talkin like I was the one that took him out but I do take some measure satisfaction in the death of the man. I haven't been mute in my satisfaction that he's gone, either. I'm not going to transpose on people why I think they're celebrating the man's death but when I reflect on what UBL's death means to me I can't help but feel like an open wound has finally been closed. Yeah, as a nation we applied ointments like dumping bombs on Afghanistan and killing several members of al-Qaida in the years since but there's a sense of justice that's been denied for years whether as a result of fighting nonsensical tangental wars or our inability to actually try the mastermind's being 9/11 in a court of law. UBL was no longer a man after 9/11 whether it was by us who villainized him or those that beatified him for what al-Qaida as an organization orchestrated and as a result of his caricature status, I know personally that I'm deriving satisfaction from a small "victory" (for a lack of a better word) that's satisfying the itches of unresolved issues pertaining to "justice." 

And maybe it's pessimistic for me to think but I do think things in many ways are better off with him dead than alive and in custody though that would have made me just as satisfied. And I'm more so pessimistic that this act will likely change nothing in our country's outlook toward the world or the "war on terror" no matter how symbolic UBL's death is. 



			
				Deo said:
			
		

> I suppose it is harder to not hate, and harder to overcome our malice. And I suppose it could be said that it is easier to dehumanize and gain pleasure in a persons's death. But is it because of weakness or flaw of character or a weak moment in our lives that we enjoy and celebrate this man's death?



So I could concede it's a moment of weakness to relish in the man's death, for viewing him in the same narrative he painted all Westerners in, but for one moment I want to take some satisfaction that some measure of justice or punishment or whatever the proper word for it is occurred because today I go back to work in counter terrorism to read and watch people demonize and destroy each other. 



JesusFish said:


> Who will we hate now?


 
The narrative has moved far beyond UBL and al-Qaida, muslims are going to be our boogeyman for quite some time.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Oh god. Seriously?
> I am at a loss of words. A real person's death made into a game for amusement? Oh. Oh. I feel like I am going to be sick. My stomach is in knots.


 Deo you care too much about terrorists who are killed


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> *That's not true. Many of us have voiced our support for the men and women in our military*, we support the human beings, but not the crusade they are forced into. I don't think anyone is anti-military in the sense that they have a grudge against the people in the military, only over how the military as an organization operates and the toll of death on all sides. You're using a straw man argument. Or you are displacing the anger you have at other people wrongfully on us without realizing that we do not bear the burden of other people's words. No one hear has said anything like what you mention, and I believe you are thoroughly mistaken in your anger and in your haste.


 

Apparently you missed the half dozen threads in this forum absolutely demonizing the shit out of us months ago.

*but not the crusade they are forced into*
This is by NO MEANS a religious fucking crusade. We went into Afghanistan with 33 other nations, European, Asian, South America and even our Canadian neighbors. Don't mistake Rhetoric for IRAQ for the Afghan effort.

*
 I don't think anyone is anti-military in the sense that they have a grudge against the people in the military*
I know for a fact you missed the threads now.
*
 only over how the military as an organization operates and the toll of death on all sides.*
But when we send 40,000 Combatants to mix wit the population and grow ties with them and PROTECT the villagers from the Taliban's massacres. No one gives a shit. But thats fine. You guys don't know what we're doing most of the time and only cling to negative stereotypes and news, mistakes and broad label the entire military. 
*
 You're using a straw man argument. Or you are displacing the anger you  have at other people wrongfully on us without realizing that we do not  bear the burden of other people's words.*
I'm not. the atmosphere here, and on FA is solely the fault of its contributors because of the bullshit and dangerous views you as a community allow to run rampant and protect from criticism, and this extends to MANY issues here.
*

and I believe you are thoroughly mistaken in your anger and in your haste.*
I am perfectly within my right to be angry given the amount of feces dropping from the mouths dropping from members of this community. the stereotyping, etc.[/QUOTE]




*ALSO.* You focus on his death, but not the fact that People are actually celebrating on what his DEATH MEANS.

This is a turning point in the war effort. People are relieved, people have a sense of progress, shit getting done. an END in sight.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> Apparently you missed the half dozen threads in this forum absolutely demonizing the shit out of us months ago.
> 
> *but not the crusade they are forced into*
> This is by NO MEANS a religious fucking crusade. We went into Afghanistan with 33 other nations, European, Asian, South America and even our Canadian neighbors. Don't mistake Rhetoric for IRAQ for the Afghan effort.
> ...


 
Tom, you drunk. Are you arguing with your own post? Or did you copy someone elses post instead of quoting it


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> I am perfectly within my right to be angry given the amount of feces dropping from the mouths dropping from members of this community. the stereotyping, etc.


 You have every right to your emotions, but you do not have a right to take your emotions out on me. I believe you are displacing your anger of other's words and actions onto myself, though I do not hold those views nor have said those things. At least it appears to be this way since I have no idea as to much of what you seem to be referring too as I did not say it. Please refrain from using me as a scapegoat for your anger.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*

Bold is what she said. Marking what i am adressing. Minus the "ALSO".

I'm really fucking exuasted. I've been up for 48 hours.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Deo you care too much about terrorists who are killed


 I care about a society that uses death as a form of entertainment and seeks pleasure and happiness in it. It's transcending of the whom, and more about the morality that is underneath.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



Deo said:


> You have every right to your emotions, but you do not have a right to take your emotions out on me. I believe you are displacing your anger of other's words and actions onto myself, though I do not hold those views nor have said those things. At least it appears to be this way since I have no idea as to much of what you seem to be referring too as I did not say it. Please refrain from using me as a scapegoat for your anger.


 

I sent you a PM on FA.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

*Re: Obama Bin Laden is Dead*



MaverickCowboy said:


> I'm really fucking exuasted. I've been up for 48 hours.


 If you are able to sleep/have the time for it now I encourage you to sleep. I recently pulled a bender of four days and it's really quite awful going that long without sleep. Sleep deprivation impairs judgment, weakens the immune system, and makes a person agitated/stressed. For your health I encourage you to shut off the computer and sleep if you can.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> I care about a society that uses death as a form of entertainment and seeks pleasure and happiness in it. It's transcending of the whom, and more about the morality that is underneath.


You're only looking at the surface, the actions of people after the death.
You're not focusing on the fact that it was a terrorist who was killed.

Like idk, 2 guys 1 hammer
Sure, they're laughing or whatever [idk, I've never seen the vid] but focusing just ont hat would be stupid, it's focusing on the fact that they're smashing innocent people with hammers that you need to be doing


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

What have I missed?


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> What have I missed?


 Unending rage.


----------



## Conker (May 2, 2011)

Xenke said:


> And of course, just like any other famous person death, there are distasteful flash games already created.
> 
> Because the death of others should be made into entertainment, obviously.


 To be fair, I think some of those were created before his death.

http://kotaku.com/#!5797790/the-10-deaths-of-osama-bin-laden/gallery/1

At least that's the gist of that article.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Unending rage.


 


THE RAGE.


EMBRACE THEE!!!!!!!



ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGH *dick cheney*


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Listen, Osama thought he could win the war because he defeated Russia using his military strategy a number of years ago. He thought the U.S.A would share the same defeat, but now we killed him, so there is a great chance that his "God approved" war logic is flawed and that his influence will be shattered. 

 Frankly I wish ALL religion to be dead and knowing that bastard ate the big one brings me evidence that "God" favors nobody. Osama has been crushed and eventually ALL religious leaders will get fucked. I hope so anyway.

 Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!


 

To be fair, religion provided most of the hatred and anger needed to use those weapons in the first place, so give credit where it's due.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Listen, Osama thought he could win the war because he defeated Russia using his military strategy a number of years ago. He thought the U.S.A would share the same defeat, but now we killed him, so there is a great chance that his "God approved" war logic is flawed and that his influence will be shattered.
> 
> Frankly I wish ALL religion to be dead and knowing that bastard ate the big one brings me evidence that "God" favors nobody. Osama has been crushed and eventually ALL religious leaders will get fucked. I hope so anyway.
> 
> Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!



As an atheist, I award you no points. None. Zero. The proclamation of wanting Religion stamped out is chilidish at best. There's nothing wrong with a person's decision to practice religion. It need only be kept out out our governing bodies decision making processes.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Listen, Osama thought he could win the war because he defeated Russia using his military strategy a number of years ago. He thought the U.S.A would share the same defeat, but now we killed him, so there is a great chance that his "God approved" war logic is flawed and that his influence will be shattered.
> 
> *Frankly I wish ALL religion to be dead* and knowing that bastard ate the big one brings me evidence that "God" favors nobody. Osama has been crushed and eventually ALL religious leaders will get fucked. I hope so anyway.
> 
> Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!




Not happening any time soon buddy. Deal with it.jpg


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

NOW LET'S HAVE AN ANTI-RELIGION THREAD!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY



Sai_Wolf said:


> As an atheist, I award you no points. None. Zero. The proclamation of wanting Religion stamped out is chilidish at best. There's nothing wrong with a person's decision to practice religion. It need only be kept out out our governing bodies decision making processes.


 
I would have "this'd" that, but apparently God smote the button.


----------



## Icky (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Listen, Osama thought he could win the war because he defeated Russia using his military strategy a number of years ago. He thought the U.S.A would share the same defeat, but now we killed him, so there is a great chance that his "God approved" war logic is flawed and that his influence will be shattered.
> 
> Frankly I wish ALL religion to be dead and knowing that bastard ate the big one brings me evidence that "God" favors nobody. Osama has been crushed and eventually ALL religious leaders will get fucked. I hope so anyway.
> 
> Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!


 
You are exactly the type of religion-hating shithead that makes us tolerant athiests look bad.


----------



## ceacar99 (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Listen, Osama thought he could win the war because he defeated Russia using his military strategy a number of years ago. He thought the U.S.A would share the same defeat, but now we killed him, so there is a great chance that his "God approved" war logic is flawed and that his influence will be shattered.
> 
> Frankly I wish ALL religion to be dead and knowing that bastard ate the big one brings me evidence that "God" favors nobody. Osama has been crushed and eventually ALL religious leaders will get fucked. I hope so anyway.
> 
> Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!


 

one notes that many scientists, past and present feel that scientific principles are an affirmation of the existence of a higher power. they ask how a universe of such form order could exist without someone writing the rules. you cant explain why every scientific principle works, you just can explain THAT it works, and HOW it works but not why that that physical law exists in the first place, and what brought that law into being. WISE atheists should pay more attention to science then touting hate like some blind inquisitor in 1500's spain.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

ceacar99 said:


> one notes that many scientists, past and present feel that scientific principles are an affirmation of the existence of a higher power. they ask how a universe of such form order could exist without someone writing the rules. you cant explain why every scientific principle works, you just can explain THAT it works, and HOW it works but not why that that physical law exists in the first place, and what brought that law into being. WISE atheists should pay more attention to science then touting hate like some blind inquisitor in 1500's spain.


This is a bad way to go about defending religion, and again, this is derailing the thread. Make your own thread about religion if you feel it is necessary or wish to talk about it.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> This is a bad way to go about defending religion, and again, this is derailing the thread. Make your own thread about religion if you feel it is necessary or wish to talk about it.


 
The problem is though that this thread is quickly approaching the point of "So...we done here?" There's not much else left to say.


----------



## Alstor (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> This is a bad way to go about defending religion, and again, this is derailing the thread. Make your own thread about religion if you feel it is necessary or wish to talk about it.


 Or the mega religion thread if that's still around.

So all of this went to a hell hole in every way possible. I'm not just talking about the thread itself.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Listen, Osama thought he could win the war because he defeated Russia using his military strategy a number of years ago. He thought the U.S.A would share the same defeat, but now we killed him, so there is a great chance that his "God approved" war logic is flawed and that his influence will be shattered.
> 
> Frankly I wish ALL religion to be dead and knowing that bastard ate the big one brings me evidence that "God" favors nobody. Osama has been crushed and eventually ALL religious leaders will get fucked. I hope so anyway.
> 
> Science developed weapons, science developed strategies to use those weapons, science is the winner! So fuck you Osama!



Please don't be one of those people who make science a religion. Science is nothing with out the human element to do the observations and tests.



Deo said:


> This is a bad way to go about defending religion, and  again, this is derailing the thread. Make your own thread about  religion if you feel it is necessary or wish to talk about it.



I this this. Stay on track, people.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> The problem is though that this thread is quickly approaching the point of "So...we done here?" There's not much else left to say.


 I'm fine with letting it die. I spoke my bit, and unless someone has some new revelation on the topic...? 
I mean we did drag this out for 21 pages.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> This is a bad way to go about defending religion, and again, this is derailing the thread. Make your own thread about religion if you feel it is necessary or wish to talk about it.



I'm out of "This" tokens.



Sai_Wolf said:


> The problem is though that this thread is quickly approaching the point of "So...we done here?" There's not much else left to say.



Good point.


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> To be fair, religion provided most of the hatred and anger needed to use those weapons in the first place, so give credit where it's due.


 
 I give religion FULL credit. I want science to better humanity. Osama has bit the dust and now some of us know that religion has failed in providing a hopeful future for humanity. Science is young, but it works! We can experience results with science. It can be used for good or bad. We humans need to choose how science will be used. 

 Just understand a lot of people will NEVER give up their idealism's about life. Especially religious leaders. That's why Osama's death is significant. His faith has failed him and science has conquered.

 It's not a bad thing, but on the topic of celebration of someone's death. I can't help to feel sorrow. I know death is nothing to laugh at. We will all meet it, but at least we know that the horrid natures of religion are becoming untrue.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> *Science is young, but it is young,* and overall it works!



what



Olaunn said:


> Especially religious leaders. That's why Osama's death is significant. His faith has failed him and science has conquered.


 
But Osama wasn't really a religious leader. He was a leader of a theocratic terrorism group, but did he provide any faith-based services?


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Fuck you too!
> 
> Why don't you go blow up some school in new york why don't you?
> 
> Should'nt you be busy raping some blue eyed girl on your quest to blend the white race out of existance?


 
Wow. Because we all know it don't matter if you _have_ blond hair and blue eyes, which I do, if you have so much as a drop of African blood, you're a nigga. Hate to break it to you, "Celtic Wolf", but your fursona's fur ain't the only thing black about you.


----------



## ArielMT (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Especially religious leaders. That's why Osama's death is significant. His faith has failed him and science has conquered.


 
Osama was much more a political leader than a religious one.


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Icky said:


> You are exactly the type of religion-hating shithead that makes us tolerant athiests look bad.



 Oh so you get fucked up the ass by religion everyday and you tolerate it? Don't you understand your lack of balls is the reason we cannot defeat religion? Does natural selection ring a bell? Grow a pair and fight or else our idealism will be crumbled man!


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> I give religion FULL credit. I want science to better humanity. Osama has bit the dust and now some of us know that religion has failed in providing a hopeful future for humanity. Science is young, but it works! We can experience results with science. It can be used for good or bad. We humans need to choose how science will be used.
> 
> Just understand a lot of people will NEVER give up their idealism's about life. Especially religious leaders. That's why Osama's death is significant. His faith has failed him and science has conquered.
> 
> It's not a bad thing, but on the topic of celebration of someone's death. I can't help to feel sorrow. I know death is nothing to laugh at. We will all meet it, but at least we know that the horrid natures of religion are becoming untrue.


 
You're making atheists like me look bad. Stop it. No seriously, stop it.

Science has it's place in the world and so does Religion. Can we move on now?


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

You people are all the fucking same.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Oh so you get fucked up the ass by religion everyday and you tolerate it? Don't you understand your lack of balls is the reason we cannot defeat religion? Does natural selection ring a bell? Grow a pair and fight or else our idealism will be crumbled man!


 
Please go darwin yourself. 

For the good of mankind.



Wolf-Bone said:


> You people are all the fucking same.


 
Everyone in the thread needs to "this" this post right now. Irony is delicious.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Oh so you get fucked up the ass by religion everyday and you tolerate it? Don't you understand your lack of balls is the reason we cannot defeat religion? Does natural selection ring a bell? Grow a pair and fight or else our idealism will be crumbled man!


 
Yeah, dude, you're not helping. Please, Just stop already.


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

ArielMT said:


> Osama was much more a political leader than a religious one.



 He was both and his victory against the Russians provided an "all-knowing/all-powerful" status among his followers. He has been killed, his followers have to make a choice on whether they had been wrong about him or not.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Some days I really hate being an atheist. 
They sit outside my window 
like angry puffer fish
and yell
WARBLEGARBLE 
at people, 
and I wish that they 
would not associate with me. 
Oh ho hum.




Olaunn said:


> He was both and his victory against the Russians  provided an "all-knowing/all-powerful" status among his followers. He  has been killed, his followers have to make a choice on whether they had  been wrong about him or not.


 Were you one of his followers? Did you talk to them? No?
No one in Al Qaida thought he was "all-knowing/all-powerful". That would be the most sacrilegious sin against Allah that a person can make, and a fundamentalist group devoted to Allah would not think in such a manner. Stop trying to hack your bullshit to us.


----------



## Commiecomrade (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Oh so you get fucked up the ass by religion everyday and you tolerate it? Don't you understand your lack of balls is the reason we cannot defeat religion? Does natural selection ring a bell? Grow a pair and fight or else our idealism will be crumbled man!


 
I am looking for a hidden :V somewhere but I can't find it.

FAF, I'm scared.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

He's right about one thing, though. I really, really would like to genocide the white race right now. I know that's _only_ a fifth of the human population or something like that, but come on, you can't expect me to do _all_ the work.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> He was both and his victory against the Russians provided an "all-knowing/all-powerful" status among his followers. He has been killed, his followers have to make a choice on whether they had been wrong about him or not.


 
Hate to break it to you, brosephine, but the next leader of Al-Qaeda is already in place.


----------



## Commiecomrade (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> Hate to break it to you, brosephine, but the next leader of Al-Qaeda is already in place.


 
It would be really funny if the US just killed him off in a week.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> Hate to break it to you, brosephine, but the next leader of Al-Qaeda is already in place.


 
Yeah, that's one advantage cultures like that have over us. They don't do the whole, oh, what's the word, *fiddles hands around* *DEMOCRACY* thing. It's so inefficient and takes too long, y'know? I dunno, I think maybe we oughtta see the writing on the wall and abandon it while _we still have a choice_. I'd rather our totalitarianism than theirs.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Wow. Because we all know it don't matter if you _have_ blond hair and blue eyes, which I do, if you have so much as a drop of African blood, you're a nigga. Hate to break it to you, "Celtic Wolf", but your fursona's fur ain't the only thing black about you.


 Stop drinking/smoking whatver and go to sleep


i for one will be celebrating the death of the dirty wizard by eatnig these choc covered strawbs I made


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> You're making atheists like me look bad. Stop it. No seriously, stop it.
> 
> Science has it's place in the world and so does Religion. Can we move on now?



 No!! You are cowering from a malevolent topic against your way of life. Religion has killed humanity and reasonable thinking. You should defend your yourself and explain why you want to live in peace during the ONLY life you will ever get. 

 Osama's goal was to dominate the world with his ideals, and I admit I'm an asshole for wanting to dominate mine. We only live on one planet, we only have one life, so explain to me how we Atheists can live with religion dominating our lifestyles?


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> No!! You are cowering from a malevolent topic against your way of life. Religion *People acting in the name of religion* have killed humanity and reasonable thinking. You should defend your yourself and explain why you want to live in peace during the ONLY life you will ever get.



FTFY



Olaunn said:


> Osama's goal was to dominate the world with his ideals, and I admit I'm an asshole for wanting to dominate mine. We only live on one planet, we only have one life, so explain to me how we Atheists can live with religion dominating our lifestyles?



We can work towards coexistence and tolerance. We can be the Bigger Man. We can accept that not everyone shares our world view. We can not stoop to that low level and strive for unity.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> No!! You are cowering from a malevolent topic against your way of life. Religion has killed humanity and reasonable thinking. You should defend your yourself and explain why you want to live in peace during the ONLY life you will ever get.
> 
> Osama's goal was to dominate the world with his ideals, and I admit I'm an asshole for wanting to dominate mine. We only live on one planet, we only have one life, so explain to me how we Atheists can live with religion dominating our lifestyles?



How the ever-loving dickshits does religion dominate our lives?

Do you have to go to church? Pay tithings? Are you forced to pray? Anything of that nature?

No?

Then stop making an ass of yourself.


----------



## 40oz Hyena (May 2, 2011)

Pics or it didn't happen.
The whole thing just feels very hollow and strange.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

You're not going to convince us to join you in your quest to make the religious convert or die (assuming on your use of "dominate the world" you mean those to be the only viable options).


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> You're not going to convince us to join you in your quest to make the religious convert or die (assuming on your use of "dominate the world" you mean those to be the only viable options).


 
What's funny is that he probably doesn't realize that he's just as bad as Osama for having that sentiment.


----------



## Deo (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> We can work towards coexistence and tolerance. We can be the Bigger Man. We can accept that not everyone shares our world view. We can not stoop to that low level and strive for unity.


 This. We need not perpetuate hate, malice, dominance, suppression, and violence. It can end with us. Step up, leave your hate behind you. Give it up before it eats you up.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Wow. Because we all know it don't matter if you _have_ blond hair and blue eyes, which I do, if you have so much as a drop of African blood, you're a nigga. Hate to break it to you, *"Celtic Wolf", but your fursona's fur ain't the only thing black about you.*


 

...Kay?


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Deo said:


> Some days I really hate being an atheist.
> They sit outside my window
> like angry puffer fish
> and yell
> ...



 Okay so explain why people follow him? Religion can change it's rules, it has been demonstrated before. Example the Catholic church suddenly decided the idea of extraterrestrials is acceptable. Despite the long understood knowledge that we are/were the only beings created in the universe.

 Osama is/was just another rule-changer that had the ability to convince his followers that he was "the wise one".


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Okay so explain why people follow him? Religion can change it's rules, it has been demonstrated before. Example the Catholic church suddenly decided the idea of extraterrestrials is acceptable. Despite the long understood knowledge that we are/were the only beings created in the universe.
> 
> Osama is/was just another rule-changer that had the ability to convince his followers that he was "the wise one".


 
...Kay?

You're blathering the obvious here. So what if Religion can rule-change? What the fuck does that have to do with the price of murrsuits?

You're veering from DEATH TO RELIGION to nonsensicalness. If you're somehow arguing for the staticness of Science, I've got news for you. You're going to be sorely disappointed. Science changes the rules too. That's what it's all about. Finding out and revising until you have it right.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> He's right about one thing, though. *I really, really would like to genocide the white race right now.* I know that's _only_ a fifth of the human population or something like that, but come on, you can't expect me to do _all_ the work.


 

I can't be the only one that notices his posts. Or does everyone unilaterally just ignore it?


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> How the ever-loving dickshits does religion dominate our lives?
> 
> Do you have to go to church? Pay tithings? Are you forced to pray? Anything of that nature?
> 
> ...



 Hahaha! Religion dominates NATIONAL thinking. That's why the world can't co-operate. So think about that before you stick your ego up against your prostate gland.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> He's right about one thing, though. I really, really would like to genocide the white race right now. I know that's _only_ a fifth of the human population or something like that, but come on, you can't expect me to do _all_ the work.


 JSYK you're gonna get in shit for this post. I got in shit once for something similar.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Hahaha! Religion dominates NATIONAL thinking. That's why the world can't co-operate. So think about that before you stick your ego up against your prostate gland.


 
I don't even know what you think you're talking about now. 

You think that religion is the only reason countries fight? 

Because if you do, boy have I got some history lessons for you.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Hahaha! Religion dominates NATIONAL thinking. That's why the world can't co-operate. So think about that before you stick your ego up against your prostate gland.


 

RELIGION GOT US TO TEH FUCKING MOON IN 1969 IN THAT CASE.


*JESUS ADVENTURE ROCKET* WOOOOSH


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

Whoo. This thread, solving shit yo :V


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> Whoo. This thread, solving shit yo :V


 

SHIT NIGGA.

FIVE STAR POST.

FUCKIN' SCIENCE AND MIRACLES.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> I can't be the only one that notices his posts. Or does everyone unilaterally just ignore it?


 This is how he always posts. I think he's just constantly drunk or high


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> This is how he always posts. I think he's just constantly drunk or high


 

I never get genocidal thoughts when i drink beer. JUST saying.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Hahaha! Religion dominates NATIONAL thinking. That's why the world can't co-operate. So think about that before you stick your ego up against your prostate gland.


 
Am I really going to have to effort post? Please don't make me. It's late and I'm tired.

But there you go again, mixing up a construct for the people who use said construct to further their own agendas. Religion is not a scary entity that goes bump in the night. The people behind it, however, are. We must deal with them, not the construct or the ideologue. Did you know that a lot of Scientists are Religious?

So I implore you, quit attributing a construct.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (May 2, 2011)

I leave for two hours and what is this?


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> ...Kay?
> 
> You're blathering the obvious here. So what if Religion can rule-change? What the fuck does that have to do with the price of murrsuits?
> 
> You're veering from DEATH TO RELIGION to nonsensicalness. If you're somehow arguing for the staticness of Science, I've got news for you. You're going to be sorely disappointed. Science changes the rules too. That's what it's all about. Finding out and revising until you have it right.



 At least science CAN be wrong and correct itself! Can religion do that? Fucking no Way! Religion is either 100% right or it's false, whereas science can be as low as 1% right and have means to correct itself.

 So make note of that friendo.


----------



## Azure (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> SHIT NIGGA.
> 
> FIVE STAR POST.
> 
> FUCKIN' SCIENCE AND MIRACLES.


 I honestly think it's bee beat to death at this point.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 2, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I leave for two hours and what is this?


 
Dicks.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Azure said:


> I honestly think it's *bee beat* to death at this point.


 

brb in a bee.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> At least science CAN be wrong and correct itself! Can religion do that? Fucking no Way! Religion is either 100% right or it's false, whereas science can be as low as 1% right and have means to correct itself.
> 
> So make note of that friendo.


 
Again,

*What the fuck does that have to do with the price of murrsuits?*

Please read my above post to you, then try your call again.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 2, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> Again,
> 
> *What the fuck does that have to do with the price of murrsuits?*
> 
> Please read my above post to you, then try your call again.




Apparently the Vatacan got in the murrsuit making business not too long ago.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Apparently the Vatacan got in the murrsuit making business not too long ago.



It's like I've found the Anti-Rukh almost. Just as fundie, but he's _waving my banner_. I feel dirty.


----------



## Volkodav (May 2, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> I never get genocidal thoughts when i drink beer. JUST saying.


 i do
and when im sober


----------



## Olaunn (May 2, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> I don't even know what you think you're talking about now.
> 
> You think that religion is the only reason countries fight?
> 
> Because if you do, boy have I got some history lessons for you.



 I know that by nature we residents of earth fight for all sorts of reasons. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that religion has been a great disadvantage to our species and a lot of greater minds would agree.


----------



## WingDog (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> I know that by nature we residents of earth fight for all sorts of reasons. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that religion has been a great disadvantage to our species and a lot of greater minds would agree.



Define "Greater minds" Are you saying that only stupid people believe in religion?


----------



## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

WingDog said:


> Define "Greater minds" Are you saying that only stupid people believe in religion?


 i am


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

Do you have any idea what religion has done for the development of art? Of government? Of even your precious "science?" 

I...

...

You know what?

Forget it. 

We obviously need to just throw you in a pit with Rukh and have you guys fight to the death for our amusement. 

Only rational way to death with this.


----------



## Llamapotamus (May 3, 2011)

LOL
Stay classy, FAF.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> It's like I've found the Anti-Rukh almost. Just as fundie, but he's _waving my banner_. I feel dirty.


 

I'm actually very Christian. Also baptized Cathlic. But i can take a joke and make fun of everyone. If not, angrily yell at them and tear them to pieces.

If Rukh showed up at a church I was in. I would bitch slap the shit out of him and not even give a fuck.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> I know that by nature we residents of earth fight for all sorts of reasons. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that religion has been a great disadvantage to our species and a lot of greater minds would agree.


 
You sure about that? I'm tempted to throw up a [citation needed]

I would argue that religion has served us, as a species, well as a coping mechanism for Death. Do you realize just how scary death is for most people? It's the End with a capitol E. That's it'. We're done here. Dead.

We probably, as a whole, came up with the construct way back when as a means to cope with Death. Religion has done a great many things for us. It's been the motivator for great minds and has fueled debate for centuries. It went awry when people realized that they could use it and the illusion of the Great Big Frommage in the sky for power and glory. As I've been trying to drill into your head, it's the people, not the construct.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> I'm actually very Christian.



Totes referring to Olaunn.

Look ma, double post!


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> Do you have any idea what religion has done for the development of art? Of government? Of even your precious "science?"
> 
> I...
> 
> ...



But, i carry a revolver. Putting me in would be rather unfair.


----------



## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> But, i carry a revolver. Putting me in would be rather unfair.


 you will now be known as
Urban Cowboy


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> But, i carry a revolver. Putting me in would be rather unfair.


 
Wasn't even refering to you bro.


----------



## Rouz (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> But, i carry a revolver. Putting me in would be rather unfair.



It'd be like Raider of the Lost Ark all over again.


----------



## Olaunn (May 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> Do you have any idea what religion has done for the development of art? Of government? Of even your precious "science?"
> 
> I...
> 
> ...


 That's actually the way nature deals with things. Don't you agree? Death, is fated for EVERYTHING so why do you try to discourage me for defending a greater understanding of why EVERYTHING dies or lives?

 Why don't you just fight me? Rather than have one of your heroes do it?


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> That's actually the way nature deals with things. Don't you agree? Death, is fated for EVERYTHING so why do you try to discourage me for defending a greater understanding of why EVERYTHING dies or lives?
> 
> Why don't you just fight me? Rather than have one of your heroes do it?


 
I want Rukh to fight you because no matter who loses, humanity wins.


----------



## Llamapotamus (May 3, 2011)

So...who is the current leader of Al-Qaida?


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> That's actually the way nature deals with things. Don't you agree? Death, is fated for EVERYTHING so why do you try to discourage me for defending a greater understanding of why EVERYTHING dies or lives?
> 
> Why don't you just fight me? Rather than have one of your heroes do it?


 

I'll fight you, hand to hand. Just cuz im bored.


----------



## Rouz (May 3, 2011)

Llamapotamus said:


> So...who is the current leader of Al-Qaida?



Some guy with a beard probably. :V


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Llamapotamus said:


> So...who is the current leader of Al-Qaida?


 
Qaeda*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11489337 has a run down of the current leader base. The #2 is already without a doubt #1.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Rouz said:


> Some guy with a beard probably. :V


 

Sean Connery?


----------



## Olaunn (May 3, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> You sure about that? I'm tempted to throw up a [citation needed]
> 
> I would argue that religion has served us, as a species, well as a coping mechanism for Death. Do you realize just how scary death is for most people? It's the End with a capitol E. That's it'. We're done here. Dead.
> 
> We probably, as a whole, came up with the construct way back when as a means to cope with Death. Religion has done a great many things for us. It's been the motivator for great minds and has fueled debate for centuries. It went awry when people realized that they could use it and the illusion of the Great Big Frommage in the sky for power and glory. As I've been trying to drill into your head, it's the people, not the construct.



 I know how scary death is. I try to comfort my Christian mother and father, my USMC sister, my Agnostic brother, without the use of religion. I also fucking know that death is nothing to be feared and life should be lived to the fullest. However, life is never lived to the fullest by anyone or anything. So what are you trying to achieve?

 Religion is a people's construction I agree. But give me one reason to not just disregard your words like you disregard mine.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCuntboy, save it. Everybody knows I don't believe in race beyond anything more than a pseudoscientific and utterly futile social construct, in _any_ manifestation, up to and including genocide. I'm the definition of an anti-racist. Not tolerance, not diversity, not multiculturalism, *anti-racism*. You revealed your own racism just by assuming that must mean I'm black. Seriously, I'm like one of the only good trolls on this forum, because I've been doing this shit for so long that I don't even have to try anymore, and newfags and oldfags alike fall for it. It's like Black Like Me but of the dog-dick internet fandom instead of urban America!


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> I know how scary death is. I try to comfort my Christian mother and father, my USMC sister, my Agnostic brother, without the use of religion. I also fucking know that death is nothing to be feared and life should be lived to the fullest. However, life is never lived to the fullest by anyone or anything. So what are you trying to achieve?
> 
> Religion is a people's construction I agree. But give me one reason to not just disregard your words like you disregard mine.


 

Live life to the fullest. Have you tasted a thick throbbing tasty dog dick lately?


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Religion is a people's construction I agree. But give me one reason to not just disregard your words like you disregard mine.



Because I'm edging you towards tolerance and growing up a bit, hint hint.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> MaverickCuntboy, save it. Everybody knows I don't believe in race beyond anything more than a pseudoscientific and utterly futile social construct, in _any_ manifestation, up to and including genocide. I'm the definition of an anti-racist. Not tolerance, not diversity, not multiculturalism, *anti-racism*. *You revealed your own racism just by assuming that must mean I'm black.* Seriously, I'm like one of the only good trolls on this forum, because I've been doing this shit for so long that I don't even have to try anymore, and newfags and oldfags alike fall for it. It's like Black Like Me but of the dog-dick internet fandom instead of urban America!


 

Everyone knows you're a fucking white kid shitbody.


also you are the definition of INSANE.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> I know how scary death is. I try to comfort my Christian mother and father, my USMC sister, my Agnostic brother, without the use of religion. I also fucking know that death is nothing to be feared and life should be lived to the fullest. However, life is never lived to the fullest by anyone or anything. So what are you trying to achieve?
> 
> Religion is a people's construction I agree. But give me one reason to not just disregard your words like you disregard mine.


 
Because your words are a motley collection of half-assembled pseudo-thoughts, and his aren't.


----------



## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

Llamapotamus said:


> So...who is the current leader of Al-Qaida?


 Dirty Sand Wizards' arch nemesis...

Snow wizard.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Everyone knows you're a fucking white kid shitbody.


 
You obviously didn't if you asked me why I'm not out raping white women to make more black babies to wipe out white people. How fucking dumb are you? You are really really really so dumb. So dumb so dumb so dumb SO!


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> You obviously didn't if you asked me why I'm not out raping white women to make more black babies to wipe out white people. How fucking dumb are you? You are really really really so dumb. So dumb so dumb so dumb SO!


 

Read a book.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> That's actually the way nature deals with things. Don't you agree? Death, is fated for EVERYTHING so why do you try to discourage me for defending a greater understanding of why EVERYTHING dies or lives?
> 
> Why don't you just fight me? Rather than have one of your heroes do it?


 
Speak for yourself.

I plan to live_ forever._


----------



## Oopslol (May 3, 2011)

Well this thread turned out just as I expected it to :V


----------



## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> You obviously didn't if you asked me why I'm not out raping white women to make more black babies to wipe out white people. How fucking dumb are you? You are really really really so dumb. So dumb so dumb so dumb SO!


 STOP.
FUCKING.
TALKING.

If you two shitcocks keep screaming im gonna yell "MOD!!" and tell on both of you cause yOURE PISSING ME THE FUCK OF


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Exunod said:


> Speak for yourself.
> 
> I plan to live_ forever._



Cant let you do that starfox.jpg

IAMANDROSS


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> STOP.
> FUCKING.
> TALKING.
> 
> If you two shitcocks keep screaming im gonna yell "MOD!!" and tell on both of you cause yOURE PISSING ME THE FUCK OF


 


Suck my cock clay.

Not literally . that would be gay.


----------



## Olaunn (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> I'll fight you, hand to hand. Just cuz im bored.



 Even though I defended your argument a little? Oh well, I suppose I should leave you to the dogs. BTW you DON'T ever want to fight me hand to hand. I'm not control of myself when shit gets serious.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Even though I defended your argument a little? Oh well, I suppose I should leave you to the dogs. BTW you DON'T ever want to fight me hand to hand. I'm not control of myself when shit gets serious.


 
And he's an internet tough guy too. 

This just gets better.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Exunod said:


> Speak for yourself.
> 
> I plan to live_ forever._



Avada Kedavra. :V

Anyway, WolfBone and Maverick. Stop, please?


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Read a book.


 
I need to read a book, you need to brush your teeth and wear deodorant. Y'see? There's something in that song that applies to everybody so don't even trip. 



Clayton said:


> STOP.
> FUCKING.
> TALKING.
> 
> If you two shitcocks keep screaming im gonna yell "MOD!!" and tell on both of you cause yOURE PISSING ME THE FUCK OF


 
It's okay if we piss you off though because you're a nobody.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Even though I defended your argument a little? Oh  well, I suppose I should leave you to the dogs. BTW you DON'T ever want  to fight me hand to hand. I'm not control of myself *when shit gets  serious*.


 
[yt]KwxwUiDbRCk[/yt]


Sai_Wolf said:


> Avada Kedavra. :V
> 
> Anyway, WolfBone and Maverick. Stop, please?


 
Now find my horcruxes.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Even though I defended your argument a little? Oh well, I suppose I should leave you to the dogs. BTW you DON'T ever want to fight me hand to hand. *I'm not control of myself when shit gets serious.*


 

*cannot breathe, is squeking*


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Exunod said:


> Now find my horcruxes.



No, Dad. No. D:


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

The amount of dicks in this thread is just so much. 

I...

I don't think I can handle it.


----------



## Oopslol (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Even though I defended your argument a little? Oh well, I suppose I should leave you to the dogs. BTW you DON'T ever want to fight me hand to hand. I'm not control of myself when shit gets serious.


 
Come at this guy, bros.  Come at him.


----------



## The_Unknowin (May 3, 2011)

Deo said:


> What would I have done about what?


 

About Osama if not kill him then what? if he was captured the terrorist would do every thing in there power to get him back and he was probably killed in the fire fight. someone like him would not have gone quietly. all we know is that he dyed in a fire fight, no real details were said. so for all we know he could of just as easily taken his own life for fear of being captured and America just took the credit they have done stuff like that before.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> I need to read a book, you need to brush your teeth and wear deodorant. Y'see? There's something in that song that applies to everybody so don't even trip.
> 
> 
> 
> It's okay if we piss you off though because you're a nobody.



DONT YOU FUCKING TALK TO CLAY LIKE THAT.


----------



## Deo (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Even though I defended your argument a little? Oh well, I suppose I should leave you to the dogs.


 Am i to assume that by "dogs" you refer to us? Stay classy there...


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

1 ITG + 1 ITG = pussyfight. Honestly I think y'all's in good company because it's not like MaverickCowboy's not basically an internet tough guy at heart even if he doesn't talk about _literally_ throwing down with people here, that I can recall at least (hint: that's a memo to y'all if you got examples to the contrary, post that shit!)


----------



## Deo (May 3, 2011)

The_Unknowin said:


> About Osama if not kill him then what? if he was captured the terrorist would do every thing in there power to get him back and he was probably killed in the fire fight someone like him would not have gone quietly all we know is that he dyed in a fire fight no real details were said so for all we know he could of just as easily taken his own life for fear of being captured and America just took the credit they have done stuff like that before


 SENTENCES END.
THEY REALLY DO.


----------



## OssumPawesome (May 3, 2011)

The_Unknowin said:


> About Osama if not kill him then what if he was captured the terrorist would do every thing in there power to get him back and he was probably killed in the fire fight someone like him would not have gone quietly all we know is that he dyed in a fire fight no real details were said so for all we know he could of just as easily taken his own life for fear of being captured and America just took the credit they have done stuff like that before.


 W...Wh...What?


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> The amount of dicks in this thread is just so much.
> 
> I...
> 
> I don't think I can handle it.


 
This thread is officially upgraded to assless chaps.



The_Unknowin said:


> About Osama if not kill him then what? if he  was captured the terrorist would do every thing in there power to get  him back and he was probably killed in the fire fight. someone like him  would not have gone quietly. all we know is that he dyed in a fire  fight, no real details were said. so for all we know he could of just as  easily taken his own life for fear of being captured and America just  took the credit they have done stuff like that before.



~This is the sentence that doesn't end yes it goes on and on my friends someone starting writing it, not knowing what it was and he'll continue writing it forever just because it's the sentence that doesn't end~

(Oh god why am I not in bed)


----------



## Olaunn (May 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> I want Rukh to fight you because no matter who loses, humanity wins.



 Humanity will never "win". Though Osamas death does improve chances of it improving.


----------



## Xenke (May 3, 2011)

I was going to type out what I've learned from this thread, but...

I'm pretty sure people would argue with me about the things happening in my own mind.

Patriotism is weird.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> 1 ITG + 1 ITG = pussyfight. Honestly I think y'all's in good company because it's not like MaverickCowboy's not basically an internet tough guy at heart even if he doesn't talk about _literally_ throwing down with people here, that I can recall at least (hint: that's a memo to y'all if you got examples to the contrary, post that shit!)


 

Come at be bro. COME AT ME BRO.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Humanity will never "win". Though Osamas death does *improve chances of it improving*.


 

Yo dawg, I heard you like improving....


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Come at be bro. COME AT ME BRO.


 
I'm not gay.


----------



## Endless Humiliation (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> Come at be bro. COME AT ME BRO.


 
[yt]pMADJcimnds[/yt]


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

This thread. LOL thank you.


----------



## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> It's okay if we piss you off though because you're a nobody.


I couldn't hear you way up here on my high-horse. :X


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> I couldn't hear you way up here on my high-horse. :X


 
From where I'm standing it looks more like the horse is the one riding you.


----------



## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> From where I'm standing it looks more like the horse is the one riding you.


 

murrrr...


----------



## Olaunn (May 3, 2011)

MaverickCowboy said:


> murrrr...



 In Idaho, we do all the riding.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> From where I'm standing it looks more like the horse is the one riding you.


 
...

Soviet Russia?


----------



## Sai_Wolf (May 3, 2011)

Right. Moving for a thread lock.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2011)

Olaunn said:


> Idaho


 
And I da pimp.


----------



## The_Unknowin (May 3, 2011)

Deo said:


> SENTENCES END.
> THEY REALLY DO.



THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PARMS FOR MY FACE RIGHT NOW.
I am soo fail but I did edit it right after I noticed.


----------



## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> From where I'm standing it looks more like the horse is the one riding you.


 Ew, you're picturing a horse fucking me


----------



## Llamapotamus (May 3, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> Right. Moving for a thread lock.


 
M'kay. Been a pleasure, kiddos...


----------



## Wolf-Bone (May 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Ew, you're picturing a horse fucking me


 
No actually I was literally picturing Jeffrey Dahmer giving a horse a piggyback ride.
Also [redacted]


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## Llamapotamus (May 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Ew, you're picturing a horse fucking me


 
Dude, people have died that way...
I wonder if he's wishing death upon you?
I wonder if anyone here would celebrate?
Too soon?


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## The_Unknowin (May 3, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> ~This is the sentence that doesn't end yes it goes on and on my friends someone starting writing it, not knowing what it was and he'll continue writing it forever just because it's the sentence that doesn't end~


 
as I said
THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PARMS FOR MY FACE RIGHT NOW.
now my sides are killing me because of what you said it was funny.


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## Volkodav (May 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> No actually I was literally picturing Jeffrey Dahmer giving a horse a piggyback ride.
> Also [redacted]


 That's Jeffrey Dahmer though, not me. 



Llamapotamus said:


> Dude, people have died that way...
> I wonder if he's wishing death upon you?
> I wonder if anyone here would celebrate?
> Too soon?


 idk man, he's confessed he's some sort of freaky werewolf therian before so it's probably more zoo-oriented. A lot of therians are zoos, based on my studies.


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## MaverickCowboy (May 3, 2011)

And...

Calling it. Thread died at 11:08 PM Mountain time.


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## ArielMT (May 3, 2011)

*sigh* *facehoof*



MaverickCowboy said:


> And...
> 
> Calling it. Thread died at 11:08 PM Mountain time.


 
No, it died much, much sooner than that.  I just spent too much time reading crap like this before locking it, that's all.


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