# Transsexualism or bestiality?



## Nylak (Oct 20, 2009)

...Which do you believe is the least socially acceptable (by the general public, not just furries)? A friend of mine and I are trying to decide. x'D


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 20, 2009)

i really have absolutly no idea.


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## Takun (Oct 20, 2009)

Bestiality... barely.  O:


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## Volpino (Oct 20, 2009)

Sounds similar to the question, "Would you rather eat dog poop, or cat poop?"


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## Darkwing (Oct 20, 2009)

Hmmm..... Interesting, yet weird, question.

I'd go with Bestiality, it's a smaller, less known, and more weird minority than transsexualism.


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## Corto (Oct 20, 2009)

I can understand transexualism getting accepted... kinda, but bestiality? No, that shit is on par with rape.


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## Duality Jack (Oct 20, 2009)

"I ain't hittn' that"  applies to both.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

Dammit, I voted for the wrong one.

Obviously, obviously, obviously bestiality is the more screwed up one. Is this a joke?


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

Beastiality, but just because nonsurgical transsexuals exist.


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## Duality Jack (Oct 20, 2009)

Corto said:


> I can understand transexualism getting accepted... kinda, but bestiality? No, that shit is on par with rape.


I would compare Bestiality more on the lines as pedophilia, even if the animal/child likes it its not right. NOT AT ALL.


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## CannonFodder (Oct 20, 2009)

What kind of question is this?
Bestiality is totally messed up!


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

Fuck, I think I just voted wrong.  I think bestiality's far more fucked up, but you were asking what we thought general opinion of the two were, comparatively.  And I wouldn't put it past a lot of stupid people/bigots/etc. to make transsexualism out to be the worse of the two.



Corto said:


> I can understand transexualism getting accepted... kinda, but bestiality? No, that shit is on par with rape.



Tantamount to child molestation IMO.

IMO there's nothing "fucked up" about transsexuality, though it puzzles me.  As long as they're open about it with their partners, anyway.  Not nice to deceive.  You may not be a man in your mind, you may have rearranged things down there to reflect that.  But you're not really a woman, either.  Sorry, pal.


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 20, 2009)

Dass said:


> Beastiality, but just because nonsurgical transsexuals exist.



okay, that is creppy, but because of this, beastiality.


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## Azure (Oct 20, 2009)

I think they're both reprehensible and pretty gross. On one hand, you got this guy who fucks dogs.  On the other hand, you got this guy who wants to be a woman, AND THEN BECOME A FUCKING LESBIAN.  Neither make any fucking sense at all.


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> I think they're both reprehensible and pretty gross. On one hand, you got this guy who fucks dogs.  On the other hand, you got this guy who wants to be a woman, AND THEN BECOME A FUCKING LESBIAN.  Neither make any fucking sense at all.



wow, the second one sounds so much like Mr. Garrison from South Park.


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## Nylak (Oct 20, 2009)

*Okay, so what about Furries vs. Trannies?* (our off-board debate continues...and I can't edit the poll and I don't want to spam the forum with a new one xD)

*Remember, this is how you think everyone else views them, not just you.*


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> I think they're both reprehensible and pretty gross. On one hand, you got this guy who fucks dogs.  On the other hand, you got this guy who wants to be a woman, AND THEN BECOME A FUCKING LESBIAN.  Neither make any fucking sense at all.



Transsexuals are absolutely incomparable to those who practice bestiality. Who cares what gender you want to be. There's nothing wrong with feeling as though you belong a different gender. They're not hurting anybody. Sure, a lot of them look sorta tacky, but there are plenty of people who dress equally horrible while remaining their biological sex.

Absolutely no comparison.



Nylak said:


> *Okay, so what about Furries vs. Trannies?* (our off-board debate continues...and I can't edit the poll and I don't want to spam the forum with a new one xD)



If you're comparing people who dress in drag, or people who have botched sex changes with people who wear fursuits 24/7, then the fursuiters are still a lot creepier. There are a lot of transsexuals at my college, and I don't get creeped out at all by them.

However, if you're comparing someone who secretly wishes to be a different gender and someone who secretly looks at furry porn, then there's no way to tell the difference in my opinion.


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## FurrIs4Ever (Oct 20, 2009)

O_O this is the most digusting poll on any forum ive been on. But bestiality is far worse. Now iam gonna vomit.


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## Duality Jack (Oct 20, 2009)

Beh. I am a furry in a non-fetish context so i am apathetic.


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 20, 2009)

FurrIs4Ever said:


> O_O this is the most digusting poll on any forum ive been on. But bestiality is far worse. Now iam gonna vomit.



you should have been here awhile back.


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> On the other hand, you got this guy who wants to be a woman, AND THEN BECOME A FUCKING LESBIAN.



This COMPLETELY baffles me, and I've seen it before.

Perhaps transsexuality is a form of dysmorphia, akin to anorexia and people who are obsessed with body modification/amputation.



Nylak said:


> *Okay, so what about Furries vs. Trannies?* (our off-board debate continues...and I can't edit the poll and I don't want to spam the forum with a new one xD)
> 
> *Remember, this is how you think everyone else views them, not just you.*



Oh, this is easy.  TRANNIES EW EVIL GROSS ABOMINATION vs. lol, stupid people in silly animal costumes.  Transsexuals are definitely looked upon FAR less favorably than furries.



FurrIs4Ever said:


> O_O this is the most digusting poll on any forum ive been on. But bestiality is far worse. Now iam gonna vomit.



Oh, please.  You are SUCH a wuss.  You should have been here for the toilet polls.


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

Nylak said:


> *Okay, so what about Furries vs. Trannies?* (our off-board debate continues...and I can't edit the poll and I don't want to spam the forum with a new one xD)
> 
> *Remember, this is how you think everyone else views them, not just you.*



General public: us (damn it)
Me: trannies, but our vocal minorities seem kind of demanding (resulting in much screwed up art)


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## pheonix (Oct 20, 2009)

Bestiality hands down. You want to mess up the body you are born with be my guest, but if you're gonna go rape some innocent animals you can save us all the trouble of murdering you and go kill yourself.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> This COMPLETELY baffles me, and I've seen it before.



Um.. I don't see how it's that hard to get. A person loves a woman, but also feels like a woman himself. He doesn't choose his genitals based upon what gender his partner is. He chooses based on the way he feels. And he doesn't choose his partner based on his genitals, either, he chooses based on how he feels about that particular person.

Seriously, guys.


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## moonchylde (Oct 20, 2009)

Nylak said:


> *Okay, so what about Furries vs. Trannies?* (our off-board debate continues...and I can't edit the poll and I don't want to spam the forum with a new one xD)
> 
> *Remember, this is how you think everyone else views them, not just you.*



In the eyes of the beer drinking, nascar watching, Jesus fearing public? Trannies are probably worse, mainly because most people either haven't heard of us or don't realize there's more then a few hundred creepy 14 year old furries out there. This is because we haven't been shoved in their face by people demanding acceptance (i.e. the Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transexual rights groups... note a lack of "furry" anywhere in that name). 

As far as I'm concerned, both groups are about equal in the weirdness, as in I could give a fuck less so long as they don't get obnoxious and start whining about nobody understanding them.


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## pheonix (Oct 20, 2009)

Nylak said:


> *Okay, so what about Furries vs. Trannies?* (our off-board debate continues...and I can't edit the poll and I don't want to spam the forum with a new one xD)
> 
> *Remember, this is how you think everyone else views them, not just you.*



Trannies. At least with furries you know they are the gender they look.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

pheonix said:


> Trannies. At least with furries you know they are the gender they look.



Um, boobsuits?


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Um, boobsuits?



I'm not clicking that for fear the page has a picture of sexy on it.

*shudder*


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Um.. I don't see how it's that hard to get. A person loves a woman, but also feels like a woman himself. He doesn't choose his genitals based upon what gender his partner is. He chooses based on the way he feels. And he doesn't choose his partner based on his genitals, either, he chooses based on how he feels about that particular person.
> 
> Seriously, guys.



It still baffles me.  The whole concept of transsexuality puzzles me.   Someone born a man "feels" like he's really a woman.  Um, how? You have had no first-hand experience whatsoever with having a female physiology.  It's like me saying "I'm really a puma".  Does not compute.  If I'm really a puma I would know exactly what being a puma feels like, right? But I don't.  I have not had the ability to physically, VISCERALLY experience what it is like to have a feline physiology.

And after the surgery... you still aren't really a "woman" in the physical sense.  You can't give birth.  You can't experience what having a true female body is like.  It's not doable.  You might as well put make-up on in the mirror, for all the good it does you.



pheonix said:


> Trannies. At least with furries you know they are the gender they look.



Fail.


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> It still baffles me.  The whole concept of transsexuality puzzles me.   Someone born a man "feels" like he's really a woman.  Um, how? You have had no first-hand experience whatsoever with having a female physiology.



Umm... Schizoids?


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## Azure (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> It still baffles me.  The whole concept of transsexuality puzzles me.   Someone born a man "feels" like he's really a woman.  Um, how? You have had no first-hand experience whatsoever with having a female physiology.  It's like me saying "I'm really a puma".  Does not compute.  If I'm really a puma I would know exactly what being a puma feels like, right? But I don't.  I have not had the ability to physically, VISCERALLY experience what it is like to have a feline physiology.
> 
> And after the surgery... you still aren't really a "woman" in the physical sense.  You can't give birth.  You can't experience what having a true female body is like.  It's not doable.  You might as well put make-up on in the mirror, for all the good it does you.
> 
> ...


Which is why I think it's bullshit. If I put on some cat ears, it don't make me a fucking cat. I don't even know what it's like to be a cat. Transsexualism is just an overblown version of Penis Envy or total self hatred.


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## pheonix (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Um, boobsuits?





Tycho said:


> Fail.



I wasn't aware that you had to fursuit to be a furry. I guess you wouldn't know what gender every single one was but it's still better then sleeping with someone and finding out later that you just slept with the same gender that was just refurbished, especially for straight people.


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

pheonix said:


> I wasn't aware that you had to fursuit to be a furry.



I wha?

EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIE!

(sarcasm'd)


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Which is why I think it's bullshit. If I put on some cat ears, it don't make me a fucking cat. I don't even know what it's like to be a cat. Transsexualism is just an overblown version of Penis Envy or total self hatred.



I'm thinking it's gotta be a dysmorphic disorder.  Mental image of the body.  You know how girls who suffer from anorexia are constantly seeing themselves as fat? I seriously think this is related.  Same goes for extensive/drastic body modders, whether piercings, tattoos, or mutilation/amputation are involved, it's this constant feeling of not feeling right with their body - "It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right, I have to change it until it does look and feel right." But sometimes they don't STOP.  They keep going and going.  There are horror stories about people who had too much plastic surgery, there are people who WANT to lose a leg or an arm for no apparent reason, and even when they do succeed in forcing docs to amputate the limb they will start fixating on another part of their body.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

Dass said:


> I'm not clicking that for fear the page has a picture of sexy on it.
> 
> *shudder*



I wouldn't even click it if it was something bad. Have I ever let any of you down? XD



Tycho said:


> It still baffles me. The whole concept of transsexuality puzzles me. Someone born a man "feels" like he's really a woman. Um, how? You have had no first-hand experience whatsoever with having a female physiology. It's like me saying "I'm really a puma". Does not compute. If I'm really a puma I would know exactly what being a puma feels like, right? But I don't. I have not had the ability to physically, VISCERALLY experience what it is like to have a feline physiology.
> 
> And after the surgery... you still aren't really a "woman" in the physical sense. You can't give birth. You can't experience what having a true female body is like. It's not doable. You might as well put make-up on in the mirror, for all the good it does you.



I think it's completely different than feeling like an animal. It's not too uncommon that a male feels a little more feminine than the average male. And it's not too uncommon that a female would feel a little more masculine than the average female. It's not like wanting fur. The female body is much more similar to the male body than an animal's body. I personally feel sort of gender neutral. I'm definitely not masculine, but I'm not the average female, either. 

I still don't see how anyone wouldn't get this. Especially the furry fandom of all places, where everybody here is gay.


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## Azure (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> I'm thinking it's gotta be a dysmorphic disorder.  Mental image of the body.  You know how girls who suffer from anorexia are constantly seeing themselves as fat? I seriously think this is related.  Same goes for extensive/drastic body modders, whether piercings, tattoos, or mutilation/amputation are involved, it's this constant feeling of not feeling right with their body - "It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right, I have to change it until it does look and feel right."


But there is no end result that will make it right.  Really it seems like psychotic mutilation, coupled with an insane hormonal regimen.  At the end of the day, a man without a dick really aint a man at all. But whatever.  Beasties are still horrible, considering that they do real harm to something that can not give consent to sexual activity.


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## vombatiformes (Oct 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> But there is no end result that will make it right.  Really it seems like psychotic mutilation, coupled with an insane hormonal regimen.  At the end of the day, a man without a dick really aint a man at all. But whatever.  Beasties are still horrible, considering that they do real harm to something that can not give consent to sexual activity.



We realize that we can't end up genetically the gender we identify as, but what is so horrible about wanting to make ourselves as comfortable with our bodies as we can? lol It's my body and I'd like to be able to function in it.


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## vombatiformes (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> I'm thinking it's gotta be a dysmorphic disorder.  Mental image of the body.  You know how girls who suffer from anorexia are constantly seeing themselves as fat? I seriously think this is related.  Same goes for extensive/drastic body modders, whether piercings, tattoos, or mutilation/amputation are involved, it's this constant feeling of not feeling right with their body - "It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right, I have to change it until it does look and feel right." But sometimes they don't STOP.  They keep going and going.  There are horror stories about people who had too much plastic surgery, there are people who WANT to lose a leg or an arm for no apparent reason, and even when they do succeed in forcing docs to amputate the limb they will start fixating on another part of their body.



There are people that are born genetically neither identifiably male or female -- many of them identify among binary gender lines. How are they supposed to "know" that?

I literally literally literally expect there to be a penis where there is no penis, and there is no way to explain how traumatizing it is when that keeps happening and you keep realizing there is not one there. It is alarming and disturbing and frightening and it never goes away.

I wouldn't compare it to those that want to amputate parts of their body. Your brain is structured to deal with a complete human body. It knows how to get legs and arms and toes and ears to work. It is wired to deal with your body in a certain way and is conscious of your body in that regard. For some reason my brain tells me there is a penis where there isn't one.


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

vombatiformes said:


> We realize that we can't end up genetically the gender we identify as, but what is so horrible about wanting to make ourselves as comfortable with our bodies as we can? lol It's my body and I'd like to be able to function in it.



Why exactly does having a wee-wee instead of a woo-woo make you feel so much more comfortable? And you say your brain tells you there is a penis - short of some serious sci-fi telepathic mind melding shit, there's no possible way for us to get into your head and figure out exactly what you mean by that statement.


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## Nocturne (Oct 20, 2009)

Bestiality of course.  It saddens me this is even an issue.  After acceptance of homosexuality I think acceptance of transsexualism will be our next big social fight.

tl;dr for the whole argument: gender is a specturm like sexuality godommot


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

vombatiformes said:


> We realize that we can't end up genetically the gender we identify as, but what is so horrible about wanting to make ourselves as comfortable with our bodies as we can? lol It's my body and I'd like to be able to function in it.



Agreed.



Tycho said:


> Why exactly does having a wee-wee instead of a woo-woo make you feel so much more comfortable?



Okay, so why are make-up, hair dye, plastic surgery, hair cuts, face-lifts, boob jobs, liposuction, botox injections, etc. etc. etc. all just peachy but when it comes to the private parts you're all "ZOMG SICK."


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## vombatiformes (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> Why exactly does having a wee-wee instead of a woo-woo make you feel so much more comfortable?



If I knew the answer to that I'd probably be famous.


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## Adelio Altomar (Oct 20, 2009)

I ain't even gonna vote on this poll. They're both pretty damn "OMG WTF R U DOING" on the fucked-up-o-meter.


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## LotsOfNothing (Oct 20, 2009)

Neither, they're both gross.


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

vombatiformes said:


> If I knew the answer to that I'd probably be famous.



I do. We can piss _standing up._

I may have missed the point of the question.


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so why are make-up, hair dye, plastic surgery, hair cuts, face-lifts, boob jobs, liposuction, botox injections, etc. etc. etc. all just peachy but when it comes to the private parts you're all "ZOMG SICK."



Because it involves serious and irreversible surgical alteration to the body.  SERIOUS.  Not stuffing a sack of saline or injecting your belly fat into your cheeks.  Sexual reassignment is pretty drastic.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> Because it involves serious and irreversible surgical alteration to the body.  SERIOUS.  Not stuffing a sack of saline or injecting your belly fat into your cheeks.  Sexual reassignment is pretty drastic.



What? Since when is it such a big deal? There are way more serious, complicated surgeries out there. Should people not get organ transplants because it's so "drastic?" 

Why is it such a terrible thing if they're absolutely sure they want it to happen, and the fact that it's such a "drastic" surgery doesn't bother them?


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> What? Since when is it such a big deal? There are way more serious, complicated surgeries out there. Should people not get organ transplants because it's so "drastic?"
> 
> Why is it such a terrible thing if they're absolutely sure they want it to happen, and the fact that it's such a "drastic" surgery doesn't bother them?



I think you miss the difference between necessary and cosmetic surgery.


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## Sinister Exaggerator (Oct 20, 2009)

what

Seriously.


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> What? Since when is it such a big deal? There are way more serious, complicated surgeries out there. Should people not get organ transplants because it's so "drastic?"
> 
> Why is it such a terrible thing if they're absolutely sure they want it to happen, and the fact that it's such a "drastic" surgery doesn't bother them?



When did I say it was "terrible"? It's mind-bending, to me anyway, but TERRIBLE? No.  It's something that I can't wrap my brain around, it confuses me, I wish I could understand exactly what the hell is going on but that's not possible.  It's a question without a COMPLETE answer.

EDIT: For the record, I think people who have botulinum toxin injected into ANY part of them are out of their minds, at least to some extent.  Human vanity knows no fear or boundary, it seems.


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## LotsOfNothing (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> What? Since when is it such a big deal? There are way more serious, complicated surgeries out there. Should people not get organ transplants because it's so "drastic?"
> 
> Why is it such a terrible thing if they're absolutely sure they want it to happen, and the fact that it's such a "drastic" surgery doesn't bother them?


 
It's a cosmetic operation.  Having your junk chopped off, turned inside-out and reattached as a dick pocket should never be compared to things like organ transplants.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

Dass said:


> I think you miss the difference between necessary and cosmetic surgery.



Yes, I am fully aware that getting your gender surgically changed is absolutely elective, but since when have people only been restricted to do what's absolutely necessary? Do you shop at goodwill for your clothing? Do you drink anything besides water? 

Seriously, who cares if it's necessary or not? That doesn't make a difference whether it's right or wrong.



Tycho said:


> When did I say it was "terrible"? It's mind-bending, to me anyway, but TERRIBLE? No. It's something that I can't wrap my brain around, it confuses me, I wish I could understand exactly what the hell is going on but that's not possible. It's a question without a COMPLETE answer.
> 
> EDIT: For the record, I think people who have botulinum toxin injected into ANY part of them are out of their minds, at least to some extent. Human vanity knows no fear or boundary, it seems.



You do realize you were making transsexuallity out to be a mental disorder, right?


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## Grimfang (Oct 20, 2009)

Tycho said:


> Fuck, I think I just voted wrong.



Okay.. that leaves two others now. What the fuck, you two people? :[


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## Dass (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Yes, I am fully aware that getting your gender surgically changed is absolutely elective, but since when have people only been restricted to do what's absolutely necessary? Do you shop at goodwill for your clothing? Do you drink anything besides water?
> 
> Seriously, who cares if it's necessary or not? That doesn't make a difference whether it's right or wrong.



I'm saying you shouldn't compare it to very necessary organ transplants. I'm fine with what they're doing, but my government ain't paying for it and you damn well aren't changing that

(I've been saying damn a lot lately)


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## Tycho (Oct 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Yes, I am fully aware that getting your gender surgically changed is absolutely elective, but since when have people only been restricted to do what's absolutely necessary? Do you shop at goodwill for your clothing? Do you drink anything besides water?
> 
> Seriously, who cares if it's necessary or not? That doesn't make a difference whether it's right or wrong.
> 
> ...



It's an abnormality.  Disorder does not equal DISEASE.  I'd appreciate it if you would make that distinction, since I'd like to think what I have is a DISORDER and not a DISEASE.

I don't know about you, but I can live with having a DISORDER, assuming it isn't compelling me to do anything particularly scary to myself or others.  You give the word more of a stigma than it merits.

It should be noted that comparing organ transplant to gender reassignment is akin to comparing a kid chucking a brick through your bedroom window to a 500 meter wide meteor smacking into your house.


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## Nargle (Oct 20, 2009)

Grimfang said:


> Okay.. that leaves two others now. What the fuck, you two people? :[



I accidentally voted for Transsexual when I meant to vote bestiality =C

Who's the other?



Dass said:


> I'm saying you shouldn't compare it to very necessary organ transplants. I'm fine with what they're doing, but my government ain't paying for it and you damn well aren't changing that



I used that comparison because Tycho said the reason you shouldn't get a sex change is because it's a "drastic" surgery. Obviously, organ transplants are drastic surgeries, too, but that doesn't mean they're bad.



Tycho said:


> It's an abnormality. Disorder does not equal DISEASE. I'd appreciate it if you would make that distinction, since I'd like to think what I have is a DISORDER and not a DISEASE.



I didn't say disease, either.


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## Grimfang (Oct 21, 2009)

Nargle said:


> I accidentally voted for Transsexual when I meant to vote bestiality =C
> 
> Who's the other?



Okay.. we're making progress.

All because Nylak had to ask..


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## vombatiformes (Oct 21, 2009)

The ONLY way to treat transsexuals/gender dysphoric people is with gender reassignment surgery / hormones, etc.

So, you know, it's kind of necessary.


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## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

Nargle said:


> I didn't say disease, either.



Why are you treating me as if I had just called transsexuality a disease akin to AIDS? Seriously.

Say the word (or even IMPLY, apparently) "disorder" and people are jumping down your throat like you had just called them lepers.


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## Nargle (Oct 21, 2009)

Tycho said:


> Why are you treating me as if I had just called transsexuality a disease akin to AIDS? Seriously.
> 
> Say the word (or even IMPLY, apparently) "disorder" and people are jumping down your throat like you had just called them lepers.



Ahem.

... wut?

ETA: I wasn't jumping down your throat because I thought you were calling transsexuality a disease. I'm just shocked that people can't figure out if it's worse than bestiality. It's completely not that big of a deal, and I don't understand why people get so freaked out about it. But you did in fact call it a disorder, which is pretty lame.


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## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Ahem.
> 
> ... wut?
> 
> ETA: I wasn't jumping down your throat because I thought you were calling transsexuality a disease. I'm just shocked that people can't figure out if it's worse than bestiality. It's completely not that big of a deal, and I don't understand why people get so freaked out about it. But you did in fact call it a disorder, which is pretty lame.



OH MY GAWD, DISORDER.

You know what? Get over it. You seem to think I was attacking transsexuality with the word "disorder".  Disorder's not a nasty name or a four letter word.  It's not something 16 year olds yell at pedestrians from their cars.

Quit giving "disorder" that type of stigma.  Quit acting like I just called your mother rude names.


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## vombatiformes (Oct 21, 2009)

Disorder implies something wrong, when I think it's fair to see transsexuality as a natural variation in sex and gender identity.

Yes, there are issues that come to fruition because of it, but there isn't something mentally "wrong" with transgender people. Not really.


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

Transexuals. Beastiality is just plain f***** up.


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## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

Transsexualism because stupid rednecks/Welsh people/third world countries support bestiality.  

Almost no one as a group supports transsexualism.


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## vombatiformes (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Transsexualism because stupid rednecks/Welsh people/third world countries support bestiality.



I lol'd a little bit.


----------



## Azure (Oct 21, 2009)

vombatiformes said:


> The ONLY way to treat transsexuals/gender dysphoric people is with gender reassignment surgery / hormones, etc.
> 
> So, you know, it's kind of necessary.


But it's an illusion.  You still aren't physically the gender you desire to be, just a hollow recreation of one. It's kind of like putting make-up on a bruise, the bruise is still there, and the owner knows it's there, they just can't see it.  It's like putting on a Bill Clinton Halloween mask, and then thinking you actually are Bill Clinton.  It doesn't even out, at least in my mind.


----------



## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> But it's an illusion.  You still aren't physically the gender you desire to be, just a hollow recreation of one. It's kind of like putting make-up on a bruise, the bruise is still there, and the owner knows it's there, they just can't see it.  It's like putting on a Bill Clinton Halloween mask, and then thinking you actually are Bill Clinton.  It doesn't even out, at least in my mind.


Will the Bill Clinton mask get me blowjobs from chicks in Monica Lewinsky masks, though?  That's all I'm really worried about.


----------



## Nargle (Oct 21, 2009)

Tycho said:


> OH MY GAWD, DISORDER.
> 
> You know what? Get over it. You seem to think I was attacking transsexuality with the word "disorder".  Disorder's not a nasty name or a four letter word.  It's not something 16 year olds yell at pedestrians from their cars.
> 
> Quit giving "disorder" that type of stigma.  Quit acting like I just called your mother rude names.



Lol, okay, who's overreacting and needs to get over it?

Also, what Vombat said.


----------



## Azure (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Will the Bill Clinton mask get me blowjobs from chicks in Monica Lewinsky masks, though?  That's all I'm really worried about.


Maybe. I'd ask them to take off the mask first.


----------



## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Maybe. I'd ask them to take off the mask first.


As long as the hole's big enough, it wouldn't bother me.  I mean, ignorance is bliss, right?  I can always pretend they're sexy if I don't know any better.


----------



## Kangamutt (Oct 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Maybe. I'd ask them to take off the mask first.



Well, seeing as how they're Monica Lewinsky masks, I'm sure the mouth hole will be made big enough where the mask doesn't have to come off. :3


----------



## vombatiformes (Oct 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> But it's an illusion.  You still aren't physically the gender you desire to be, just a hollow recreation of one. It's kind of like putting make-up on a bruise, the bruise is still there, and the owner knows it's there, they just can't see it.  It's like putting on a Bill Clinton Halloween mask, and then thinking you actually are Bill Clinton.  It doesn't even out, at least in my mind.



Treating it in this way is better than doing nothing. Ok? Ok.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 21, 2009)

Bestiality is less socially acceptable.  There are laws against it.  :|


----------



## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Bestiality is less socially acceptable.  There are laws against it.  :|


There are also laws against sodomy and same sex marriage :V


----------



## Nargle (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> There are also laws against sodomy and same sex marriage :V



But that doesn't have anything to do with transsexuality. You can be an asexual transsexual.


----------



## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

Nargle said:


> But that doesn't have anything to do with transsexuality. You can be an asexual transsexual.


*facepaw* I wasn't saying that, Nargle 


I was saying that just because there are laws against it doesn't mean it's less socially acceptable than something.  Homosexuality is more socially accepted than transsexuality, I would think and it's illegal in places.


----------



## Nargle (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> *facepaw* I wasn't saying that, Nargle
> 
> 
> I was saying that just because there are laws against it doesn't mean it's less socially acceptable than something.  Homosexuality is more socially accepted than transsexuality, I would think and it's illegal in places.



Oh =V


----------



## CynicalCirno (Oct 21, 2009)

Bestiality obviously is much more fucked up.
Changing the physical sex or fucking animals?
Obviously fucking animals is a worser condition of brain damage.


----------



## Telnac (Oct 21, 2009)

Fucking a goat is far worse in most people's minds than going from one gender to another.


----------



## LotsOfNothing (Oct 21, 2009)

vombatiformes said:


> The ONLY way to treat transsexuals/gender dysphoric people is with gender reassignment surgery / hormones, etc.
> 
> So, you know, it's kind of necessary.


 

Lol no.  You're only saying that because you demand to make it the center of your life, then rant when people don't react the way you want them to.


----------



## Kommodore (Oct 21, 2009)

I personally think that in the collective mind of society people are more freaked out by trannies than dogfuckers. The reason is not because it is somehow "worse" than beastiality, as I think most people would agree that the opposite is true, but as far as getting a wtf reaction I think most people do not like the whole transsexual thing, and no the least because they could be tricked by it! 

But all in all I think that if you pointed out to someone and said "That guy fucks dogs" or "that guy is actually that gal" then both would be met with some pretty negative feelings. 

Just my hunch though, I don't really pay attention to what sexual habits freak people out the most.


----------



## CryoScales (Oct 21, 2009)

Transexualism is the next gay. I mean gays are now getting more accepted in modern society. It's not like how it was 30 years ago where people were for openly killing gay people in the streets. Although trannies still can't get jobs in today's society.

In around 10-20 years highschoolers are going to call guys "trannies" and come up with new insults toward them. It's strangely predictable and required in today's society to have a scapegoat people can ridicule.


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

They're both pretty much equally bad. 

However, the dog-fucking one might be a tad-bit worse.


----------



## EnigmaOfSin (Oct 21, 2009)

Bestiality is wrong, transsexuals... I dont know what to say about them...

Never met one before.


----------



## twelvestring (Oct 21, 2009)

How I personally feel toward both is indifferent, don't really care. I had trannie friends and friends into bestiality.

General public, I gotta go with trannie. Transsexuals have been killed. Beasties just get laughed at.

I think furries are the only people that even give furries a second thought. So trannie on that one.


----------



## Nocturne (Oct 21, 2009)

Goddamn people.  Really how can you equate the possible abuse of an animal with something that has to do with ones own body.  It's ridiculous no matter what you feel about either issue :/

That being said the poll is about society at large and not your own opinion.


----------



## Sinjo (Oct 21, 2009)

terribly obvious thread. Bestiality is 100% more taboo then being a Transexual.


----------



## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

This to above two.


----------



## Patton89 (Oct 21, 2009)

Beastiality. Animal rape. Is. Fucking. Sick.


----------



## wheelieotter (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> There are also laws against sodomy...


In the US, not since Lawrence V. Texas.


----------



## Hateful Bitch (Oct 21, 2009)

Pretty sure people would be less creeped out by a man dressed as a woman than someone snogging a dog.


----------



## twelvestring (Oct 21, 2009)

Teto said:


> Pretty sure people would be less creeped out by a man dressed as a woman than someone snogging a dog.


lol snogging

don't think I've heard that one.


----------



## FurrIs4Ever (Oct 21, 2009)

And this thread goes on and on....I try to avoid it but this is so digusting its funny.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 21, 2009)

> Animal rape



Bestiality is not automatically animal rape.

As far as public perception I'd say that people see bestiality as worse than transexualism, at least in the US. I know bestiality has better acceptance in some areas but I have no idea what people there think of transexuals.


----------



## VoidBat (Oct 21, 2009)

Murry purry-groping Fido in inappropriate places means you are ready for the asylum. Then the gas chamber.


----------



## LotsOfNothing (Oct 21, 2009)

VoidBat said:


> Murry purry-groping Fido in inappropriate places means you are ready for the asylum. Then the gas chamber.


 

Same should be said about willingly having a doctor invert your penis.  They're both gross.


----------



## Ricky (Oct 21, 2009)

Nargle said:


> If you're comparing people who dress in drag, or people who have botched sex changes with people who wear fursuits 24/7, then the fursuiters are still a lot creepier. There are a lot of transsexuals at my college, and I don't get creeped out at all by them.



There are people who wear fursuits 24/7? 

wtf -

I voted transsexuals because more people know about it in order to form an opinion.  I'm sure the majority of people are _blissfully_ unaware that there's any type of underground zoo/bestiality movement out there.


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

LotsOfNothing said:


> Same should be said about willingly having a doctor invert your penis.  *They're both gross*.



Very much this.


----------



## VoidBat (Oct 21, 2009)

LotsOfNothing said:


> Same should be said about willingly having a doctor invert your penis. They're both gross.


 
Matter of opinions.

If someone wants to mutilate their Johnson or jump on Fido go ahead. Either way, I will still be able to laugh and point fingers when it goes wrong.


----------



## Monkeykitten (Oct 21, 2009)

I would HOPE that bestiality is less accepted... Though it seems that transsexualism is still pretty taboo, at least in America. I read a news article recently about a school for males that banned them from wearing women's clothing or make-up. Will edit if I can find a link. 

People seem to just want to ignore and not talk about bestiality, but folks love to openly bitch about people wearing the clothing that is "incorrect" for their gender. <__> Whether that means one is more accepted than the other I am not really sure.

EDIT
Here's that link. C: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/17/college.dress.code/index.html


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

Monkeykitten said:


> I would HOPE that bestiality is less accepted... Though it seems that transsexualism is still pretty taboo, at least in America. I read a news article recently about a school for males that banned them from wearing women's clothing or make-up. Will edit if I can find a link.
> *
> People seem to just want to ignore and not talk about bestiality, but folks love to openly bitch about people wearing the clothing that is "incorrect" for their gender. <__> Whether that means one is more accepted than the other I am not really sure.*
> 
> ...



To be fair, between the two, only trannies actually go out in public and dress "accordingly". Most zoophiles don't fuck dogs in public.


----------



## Monkeykitten (Oct 21, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> To be fair, between the two, only trannies actually go out in public and dress "accordingly". Most zoophiles don't fuck dogs in public.



I suppose, the squeaky wheel and whatnot. Most people who want to complain about something would much rather complain about something they can point at.


----------



## FluffMouse (Oct 21, 2009)

I love how you guys are so judgmental, yet still call yourself furries. Bit ironic there.


----------



## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

I'd say Transsexuality because it is more obvious than being a zoophile.

But if everyone already knows you're a zoophile, I'd say thats a LOT less socially accepted.


----------



## Monkeykitten (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I love how you guys are so judgmental, yet still call yourself furries. Bit ironic there.



Since when is "nonjudgmental" in the definition for "furry"?


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I love how you guys are so judgmental, yet still call yourself furries. Bit ironic there.



I'm still human... and what says a furry can't be judgmental? 

You act as if furries are moral-less creatures.


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 21, 2009)

Bestiality is much, much worse.


----------



## FluffMouse (Oct 21, 2009)

It just makes those that do judge, a bit hypocritical.
Granted.. I don't accept babyfurs.. or bestiality.. and I'm not saying people SHOULD accept them.

Just our fandom is pretty much the most accepting.
And I don't think trannies are hurting anyone. It's the equivalent of gay-bashing in my eyes. We've all accepted that being gay isn't exactly a choice, but we can't accept the same for transsexuals?


----------



## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I love how you guys are so judgmental, yet still call yourself furries. Bit ironic there.



You know what? Fuck you.

We reserve the right to say "Whoa, whoa.  That shit isn't acceptable to me." just like anyone else.  You gonna jump down a body-mod enthusiast's throat because they say they don't think bestiality is acceptable? I bet you wouldn't.  Furry isn't about being non-judgmental.  Fuck, look at where a "non-judgmental" stance has gotten us - infested with genuinely sick fucks.  We harbor fuck-knows-how-many genuine bad apples because of the non-judgmental shit you are pushing.


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> It just makes those that do judge, a bit hypocritical.
> Granted.. I don't accept babyfurs.. or bestiality.. and I'm not saying people SHOULD accept them.
> 
> *Just our fandom is pretty much the most accepting.*
> And I don't think trannies are hurting anyone. It's the equivalent of gay-bashing in my eyes. We've all accepted that being gay isn't exactly a choice, but we can't accept the same for transsexuals?



The "fandom" is not "me". I don't follow the rules of the fandom. I have a personal opinion of things too, unlike all these other mindless furfags.

Also, just because I'm bi doesn't mean I have to automatically agree or like transsexualism. I get the idea of transsexualism and I don't agree much with sex-change operations (I'm not gonna ban 'em, but I don't particularly agree with them).


----------



## Monkeykitten (Oct 21, 2009)

Tycho said:


> You know what? Fuck you.
> 
> We reserve the right to say "Whoa, whoa.  That shit isn't acceptable to me." just like anyone else.  You gonna jump down a body-mod enthusiast's throat because they say they don't think bestiality is acceptable? I bet you wouldn't.  Furry isn't about being non-judgmental.  Fuck, look at where a "non-judgmental" stance has gotten us - infested with genuinely sick fucks.  We harbor fuck-knows-how-many genuine bad apples because of the non-judgmental shit you are pushing.



Oh man, yes. :C It's awful. I can't help but wonder if these people who refuse to pass any kind of judgment were just bullied as a kid for being different and now they are super sensitive to that kind of thing.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> It just makes those that do judge, a bit hypocritical.
> Granted.. I don't accept babyfurs.. or bestiality.. and I'm not saying people SHOULD accept them.
> 
> Just our fandom is pretty much the most accepting.
> And I don't think trannies are hurting anyone. It's the equivalent of gay-bashing in my eyes. We've all accepted that being gay isn't exactly a choice, but we can't accept the same for transsexuals?



Perhaps a little *too* accepting.

We have to say no at some point.


----------



## Carenath (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> There are also laws against sodomy and same sex marriage :V


Likely religiously motivated :/



Tycho said:


> ...look at where a "non-judgmental" stance has gotten us - infested with genuinely sick fucks. We harbor fuck-knows-how-many genuine bad apples because of the non-judgmental shit you are pushing.


Sorry to burst your bubble here, but, *anyone* can be a furry, irrespective of what they are into. Furry isnt some exclusive club where only people of a certain moral standpoint are accepted. They can be banned from cons and websites, but they can still be furries.



Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Bestiality is not automatically animal rape.
> 
> As far as public perception I'd say that people see bestiality as worse than transexualism, at least in the US. I know bestiality has better acceptance in some areas but I have no idea what people there think of transexuals.


The general consensus is, that it is, because an animal cannot consent. Leaving out the obvious moral issues, and, leaving out the numerous furries who take issue with this, as a scapegoat for their own equally repugnant fetishes.
Also, I'd have to say transexualism is more socially accepted.
*
MOD NOTE:* Don't turn this into a shitfest over besties.


----------



## Monkeykitten (Oct 21, 2009)

Carenath said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble here, but, *anyone* can be a furry, irrespective of what they are into. Furry isnt some exclusive club where only people of a certain moral standpoint are accepted. They can be banned from cons and websites, but they can still be furries.



Just like people who commit murder (not trying to draw any lines between the behaviors being discussed and murdering), while it is not accepted by society as a whole, are still members of society. But we can make it clear that we don't approve of such behavior by, as you said, making it harder for those individuals to participate. It doesn't make them less human, or in this case, less of a member of the furry fandom. If we accept members of our group that, for example, molest children, then it shows that we, as a group, think that molesting children is acceptable. Obviously it's not the job of a fandom to punish people who break the law, but I think I'm being pretty clear.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

Carenath said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble here, but, *anyone* can be a furry, irrespective of what they are into. Furry isnt some exclusive club where only people of a certain moral standpoint are accepted. They can be banned from cons and websites, but they can still be furries.



Sure, they can "be a furry".  But if we catch them doing something "VERY BAD"Â© we reserve the right to make them feel very unwelcome.  They can be a furry, but they'll get no recognition or acceptance as such from us.  GTFO sickos.  Seriously.  We want nothing to do with you.  We can't strip you of the ability to call yourself a furry but we can damn well deny you a place in the community at large.


----------



## FluffMouse (Oct 21, 2009)

I would say the same if people were bashing gays. oO Of course you're going to think it's perfectly fine to state your opinion against things you don't believe in. As is my right to argue that SOME people shouldn't judge. I knew someone would throw out the whole "Accepting certain people is what got us under the judgmental spotlight to begin with." Does that mean we should run from everything that isn't socially acceptable? No. The people on the outside need to be educated, NOT appeased. 

Transexuals were born in a body they don't think belongs to them. Some furries have the same opinion. (Note that I say SOME), as do most gays believe they were born with an attraction to the same gender.. as in.. they didn't CHOOSE to. I don't see them hurting anyone. Not like sexing animals might, or touching childeren, or any other truly messed up thing. It's perfectly fine to have an opinion. But to practically compare it to dog fuckers is just plain.. screwed up.


----------



## FluffMouse (Oct 21, 2009)

Also.. to stay on topic, bestiality would be less accepted by NORMAL people.
Why? Because I'd think if you tried explaining transsexuals to a normal person,
they'd be able to understand it a bit more than humping animals. Unless they
had the same.. animal humping fetish.


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I would say the same if people were bashing gays. oO Of course you're going to think it's perfectly fine to state your opinion against things you don't believe in. As is my right to argue that SOME people shouldn't judge. I knew someone would throw out the whole "Accepting certain people is what got us under the judgmental spotlight to begin with." Does that mean we should run from everything that isn't socially acceptable? No. *The people on the outside need to be educated, NOT appeased. *
> 
> Transexuals were born in a body they don't think belongs to them. Some furries have the same opinion. (Note that I say SOME), as do most gays believe they were born with an attraction to the same gender.. as in.. they didn't CHOOSE to. I don't see them hurting anyone. Not like sexing animals might, or touching childeren, or any other truly messed up thing. It's perfectly fine to have an opinion. But to practically compare it to dog fuckers is just plain.. screwed up.



I am educated, but that doesn't make me anymore comfortable about it. I understand why child molesters do what they do, but that doesn't make me more comfortable with it.


----------



## TheGreatCrusader (Oct 21, 2009)

This thread made me lol. Comparing something whose chemical makeup is similar to sexuality (Recent studies show that the hormones that determine sexual orientation and gender identity are very similar) and fetishism with animals isn't a comparison.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

TheGreatCrusader said:


> This thread made me lol. Comparing something whose chemical makeup is similar to sexuality (Recent studies show that the hormones that determine sexual orientation and gender identity are very similar) and fetishism with animals isn't a comparison.



In the eyes of the lay idiot joe-blow member of modern society, it's a matter of icky thing 1 and icky thing 2.  They could care less what the psychological/physiological/whatever root of either is.  Remember, we're talking about a society in which MANY people STILL think being a homo is a conscious decision.


----------



## Bambi (Oct 21, 2009)

I'am too heavy for my soap-box right now.

... but I r voted in pollz.


----------



## FluffMouse (Oct 21, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> I am educated, but that doesn't make me anymore comfortable about it. I understand why child molesters do what they do, but that doesn't make me more comfortable with it.



I said outside. >> As in.. outside the fandom. The people that think the child molesters make up the fandom. That all fursuits fuck in their suits.. or all furries are zoophiles. 

We need to educate THEM, that that's not what the fandom is about. 

We educate them, not appease them.

Anyways.. I answered the thread. Bestiality is IMO worse in the public's eye.


----------



## Dass (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I said outside. >> As in.. outside the fandom. The people that think the child molesters make up the fandom. That all fursuits fuck in their suits.. or all furries are zoophiles.
> 
> We need to educate THEM, that that's not what the fandom is about.



Except 90% of people probably don't know who we are or care.


----------



## SnowFox (Oct 21, 2009)

Well I'm shocked that the question even needs asking. That's a lie actually, I'm not, but it's pretty sad that you can call transsexuals as fucked up as animal abuse. It's a bit weird and sometimes creepy but it's their body, why should anyone care what they do.


LOL NYLAK TROLD US


----------



## Bambi (Oct 21, 2009)

Okay, question:

While most of us don't condone beastiality in the forums, why does the fandom still tolerate anatomically correct dog knots, horse cocks, etc. in teh pictars?

I mean, if you didn't know what one looked like, you'd have to find out, correct?


----------



## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

Bambi said:


> Okay, question:
> 
> While most of us don't condone beastiality in the forums, *why does the fandom *still tolerate anatomically correct dog knots, horse cocks, etc. in teh pictars?
> 
> I mean, if you didn't know what one looked like, you'd have to find out, correct?



Say, "most/some of the fandom". I would definitely prefer human-like "cocks" over dog/horse/etc "cocks".


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 21, 2009)

Why is there no 'both' option? :[


----------



## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

Bambi said:


> Okay, question:
> 
> While most of us don't condone beastiality in the forums, why does the fandom still tolerate anatomically correct dog knots, horse cocks, etc. in teh pictars?
> 
> I mean, if you didn't know what one looked like, you'd have to find out, correct?



I assure you, there is likely to be NO shortage of anatomical studies of such things, and not necessarily in a pornographic sense.

I don't particularly like them, they don't totally kill a picture for me though.  Horse junk is kinda ugly IMO, don't understand why people think it's so novel.  It's probably mostly a matter of fascination with the different anatomy, no doubt with a "small" peppering of zoophilia here and there.  Things like flares and knots and barbs are little more than the equivalent of fancy hubcaps and tailfins on a car, for most furries - decoration, I'd wager.

Also, if the rest of the anatomy is humanoid enough, why agonize so much over the dick? It's an anthro, a depiction of a humanoid being with animalistic features and a sapient mind.


----------



## vombatiformes (Oct 21, 2009)

LotsOfNothing said:


> Lol no.  You're only saying that because you demand to make it the center of your life, then rant when people don't react the way you want them to.




No. It's. Just the truth. 

I can bring up a number of studies for you if you want. There is no  way to "treat" gender identity disorder outside of surgery and hormones. No amount of counseling will ever make the dysphoria go away. Because of that, if a person suffers from dysphoria to the point where they feel they want surgery and hormones, then it is medically necessary to treat their condition.

Edit:

And for the record the center of my life is my obsession over literature, history and Australia. And combinations of the three~~. Just so we're all clear :3


----------



## Ozriel (Oct 21, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Why is there no 'both' option? :[



I askedm myself the same thing...

But Zoophillia is less acceptable in society  than Trannies.


----------



## Ozriel (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I love how you guys are so judgmental, yet still call yourself furries. Bit ironic there.



Furries are humans, therefore we judge, mostly by actions and sometimes by what people say.


Besides, the furry fandom is not an ass-patting hugbox for people who feel that they need to be comforted and hugged when they do stupid shit that is socially unacceptable. The fandom is not a cult.


----------



## Largentum_Wolf (Oct 21, 2009)

rape is rape(fucked up)though im gonna be the devils advicate on this, have you ever seen an upset donkey cause hes getin a blow job? just wonderin?!?lol  as for the trani thing, im bi, and have researched various "gender disorders", i understand the drive in a sense. ill explain it like this: my older sister just got her second injection today of some temporary salene(not sure if thats correct) injections to plump her lips, when i first found out about this, i couldnt keep quiet my secret inner desires! after spending a month in jail over the summer for a certain illicit substance, and living on concrete and steel the whole time, i found an overwhelming desire to get butt implants. after the procedure, no seat will discomfort me, ill be a free man!!!  but seriously, as much as i like the 2 piercings i have, and the 2(soon to be more) tattoos on my body, i dont see any reason to snip tuck anything. you should be comfortable with what you have, to be so concerned with making yourself something your not,  in my opinion is a disorder, however you classify it!


----------



## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

Largentum_Wolf said:


> rape is rape(fucked up)though im gonna be the devils advicate on this, have you ever seen an upset donkey cause hes getin a blow job? just wonderin?!?!



Uh... have YOU?


----------



## Largentum_Wolf (Oct 21, 2009)

not at all, just consider the donkeys point of view


----------



## Tycho (Oct 21, 2009)

Largentum_Wolf said:


> not at all, just consider the donkeys point of view



Uh... what makes you think the donkey's point of view would be anything like a h-

FUCK THIS

I AM NOT HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.

WHAT THE FUCK.


----------



## Largentum_Wolf (Oct 21, 2009)

you had to ask a sincere question about a hopefully obvious joke, so i obliged with an answer!


----------



## Ozriel (Oct 21, 2009)

Largentum_Wolf said:


> rape is rape(fucked up)though im gonna be the devils advicate on this, have you ever seen an upset donkey cause hes getin a blow job? just wonderin?!?lol  as for the trani thing, im bi, and have researched various "gender disorders", i understand the drive in a sense. ill explain it like this: my older sister just got her second injection today of some temporary salene(not sure if thats correct) injections to plump her lips, when i first found out about this, i couldnt keep quiet my secret inner desires! after spending a month in jail over the summer for a certain illicit substance, and living on concrete and steel the whole time, i found an overwhelming desire to get butt implants. after the procedure, no seat will discomfort me, ill be a free man!!!  but seriously, as much as i like the 2 piercings i have, and the 2(soon to be more) tattoos on my body, i dont see any reason to snip tuck anything. you should be comfortable with what you have, to be so concerned with making yourself something your not,  in my opinion is a disorder, however you classify it!



-anus begins to hemorrage-


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## Lobo Roo (Oct 21, 2009)

...it's depressing that you'd even have to ask this.


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I love how you guys are so judgmental, yet still call yourself furries. Bit ironic there.


Being part of a fandom =/= Transsexualism or Bestiality

What makes people of the fandom less judgemental of the world around them?


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

Personally, I don't think either of them's wrong..

But if by Beastiality, you mean being cruel and/or hurting the animal, then it's a no/no.

Zoophilia's correct, though


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

Ibuuyk said:


> Zoophilia's correct, though


I'd like to see why you think sex with animals is right.


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## Bambi (Oct 21, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> I'd like to see why you think sex with animals is right.


Simple Answer: Because we're animals too.

Complicated Answer: ... because we're animals too -- plus, waggle cuntâ„¢ indicates a will of sexual consent. Plus rape is a crime of violence =/= consenting sex.

I could probably go on about it more, but I'am just deciding to keep it simple.


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> I'd like to see why you think sex with animals is right.



And I just did ^^


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## Ozriel (Oct 21, 2009)

Ibuuyk said:


> And I just did ^^



Nuh-uh.


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## Duality Jack (Oct 21, 2009)

Ib you Idiot they ban for that now.


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Nuh-uh.


MSN bro.


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

Ban for what, explaining our opinion oO?


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## Bambi (Oct 21, 2009)

The Drunken Ace said:


> Ib you Idiot they ban for that now.


Sucks for me, then -- damn discussion making and non-obligatory /devils advocate.


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## Attaman (Oct 21, 2009)

Curse you Nylak!  Curse you for posting this thread!


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

I think I missed something, what's happening?


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

Just back away slowly, Ib.


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

Why's everybody making a fuss cuz I explained to you why Zoophilia wasn't wrong, Skunkie D'=?

I just dun get it


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

Ibuuyk said:


> And I just did ^^



Please, PLEASE SAY THAT DOESNT MEAN WHAT I THINK! PLEASE!


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

Gonebatty said:


> Please, PLEASE SAY THAT DOESNT MEAN WHAT I THINK! PLEASE!



Uhh.. what do you think it means?


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

IB SERIOUSLY JUST BACK AWAY SLOWLY

BUT INSTEAD RUN AWAY


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> Just back away slowly, Ib.



YOU. BACK ME UP. NOW.


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

I am SO confused..


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

Gonebatty said:


> YOU. BACK ME UP. NOW.


He meant he just did explain it to me over MSN.

in yo face k


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

Ibuuyk said:


> I am SO confused..



Nvm


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

I'll just say: "And I just did" do what exactly?


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

NVM. Tired and confused, drop everything.


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## SexyRedFoxxy (Oct 21, 2009)

Transexuality!  Because Bestiality is misunderdstood


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> I'll just say: "And I just did" do what exactly?



And I just did explain ='/?

Seriously, I dun see the innuendo in there, what the heck was every sicko thinking?


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## Hir (Oct 21, 2009)

Ib seriously forget it.


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

Ok, I'll just GTFO. Really, sorry. not a problem.


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## Ibuuyk (Oct 21, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> Ib seriously forget it.



Fine, sorry Skunkie, I'll leave this thread now.

But please, can someone PM me and tell me what the innuendo was, please?


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## Attaman (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarMental said:


> I said outside. >> As in.. *outside the fandom.*


 


> The people that think the child molesters make up the fandom.


 


> That all fursuits fuck in their suits..


 :|


> or all furries are zoophiles.


   You don't know me at all.


> We need to educate THEM, that that's not what the fandom is about.


  There is nothing to educate about the fandom.  It has no ideological system, there is no clear cut "You are Furry" identifier, etcetera: it's just _there_.  Jane Doe who occasionally browses FA has as much right to label herself a Furry as someone who has several flash drives full of Club Stripes and a "trophy rack" of Bad Dragon products while insisting "Fuck you I'm a Dragon".  


> We educate them,


  Unless talking person-to-person with someone and watching their face the entire time, I would not trust any "education" someone gives of the Fandom.  All I find online is stuff ranging from "Furries are sick dog fuckers", to "It is a hugbox where we accept everyone", to "There is no sexual content in the fandom, they're all from somewhere else", to stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the fandom (such as people within the fandom preaching Otherkinism / Therianism is what makes one a Furry).


> Bestiality is IMO worse in the public's eye.


 Agreed.  However, both of the things in the OP are (unfortunately to me, at least for one of the two subjects) becoming more "tolerated" in society.  For an example:  Scotland, where the men are men and the sheep are afraid.*  Not the type of joke you could get away with if bestiality were something everyone got up in arms about.  Yes, I know tolerance of a joke is hardly a standard for public opinion on a matter, but the point still stands that a few decades back cracking that joke publicly would end... poorly.

*Don't worry, we all know it's the New Zealanders who this joke applies to.


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## moonchylde (Oct 21, 2009)

SexyRedFoxxy said:


> Transexuality!  Because Bestiality is misunderdstood




*backs away slowly before the inevitable shitstorm*


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## LotsOfNothing (Oct 21, 2009)

Haha, you dogfuckers.


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## Dass (Oct 21, 2009)

SexyRedFoxxy said:


> Transexuality!  Because Bestiality is misunderdstood



Oh grood, someone's going to take this as legit any moment now.


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## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

SexyRedFoxxy said:


> Transexuality!  Because Bestiality is misunderdstood


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-


Also, on topic reply to your reply, being "misunderstood" still has no bearing on the social acceptability.


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
> 
> 
> Also, on topic reply to your reply, being "misunderstood" still has no bearing on the social acceptability.



See post above you.


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## Dass (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
> 
> 
> Also, on topic reply to your reply, being "misunderstood" still has no bearing on the social acceptability.



I'Z STILL PSYCHIC!

(unless this poster was serious, in which case, the hell?)


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## Jashwa (Oct 21, 2009)

Dass said:


> I'Z STILL PSYCHIC!
> 
> (unless this poster was serious, in which case, the hell?)





Gonebatty said:


> See post above you.




That poster was serious.  You guys need to whore the forums more and pay attention to the way people post.  Also, with a name like Sexxy Redd Foxxy, he probably doesn't have the IQ needed to use sarcasm. 

And I saw the post above me and didn't care.


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## moonchylde (Oct 21, 2009)

Dass said:


> I'Z STILL PSYCHIC!
> 
> (unless this poster was serious, in which case, the hell?)



Once again, I find myself in a moment where I pray someone is joking but fear they are not. Usually in this case, they weren't joking...


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## Dass (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> That poster was serious.  You guys need to whore the forums more and pay attention to the way people post.  Also, with a name like Sexxy Redd Foxxy, he probably doesn't have the IQ needed to use sarcasm.
> 
> And I saw the post above me and didn't care.





moonchylde said:


> Once again, I find myself in a moment where I pray someone is joking but fear they are not. Usually in this case, they weren't joking...



In which case someone really needs to program a reliable sarcasm filter for the internet.

I was still right the other two times I tried being psychic.


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## Gonebatty (Oct 21, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> That poster was serious.  You guys need to whore the forums more and pay attention to the way people post.  Also, with a name like Sexxy Redd Foxxy, he probably doesn't have the IQ needed to use sarcasm.
> 
> And I saw the post above me and didn't care.



I thought that, but dass changed that. I hope to god they're joking.

Edit: This@ dass.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Oct 21, 2009)

I see people saying bestiality is sick and wrong, but when I make a thread saying it's okay to say it's sick and wrong people are like "dude, that's cool. That same argument was used against the gays. This thread shouldn't be here."


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## Dass (Oct 21, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> I see people saying bestiality is sick and wrong, but when I make a thread saying it's okay to say it's sick and wrong people are like "dude, that's cool. That same argument was used against the gays. This thread shouldn't be here."



Either case I'm sure it's fine if you don't do anything illegal. How many zoophiles don't do anything illegal?


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Oct 21, 2009)

Dass said:


> Either case I'm sure it's fine if you don't do anything illegal. How many zoophiles don't do anything illegal?


 
That's the scary part, you don't know who is and who is not. Thanks to the internet people are now discovering kinks they never knew they had.


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## PriestRevan (Oct 21, 2009)

Lobo Roo said:


> ...it's depressing that you'd even have to ask this.



You're biased, get out.


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## TheGreatCrusader (Oct 21, 2009)

Tycho said:


> In the eyes of the lay idiot joe-blow member of modern society, it's a matter of icky thing 1 and icky thing 2.  They could care less what the psychological/physiological/whatever root of either is.  Remember, we're talking about a society in which MANY people STILL think being a homo is a conscious decision.


And they tend to always be the same people that say homosexuality is sinful and that gay rights are redonkulous.


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## Conker (Oct 22, 2009)

From an "I don't care standpoint" both transsexuals and beasties don't effect me. I've never encountered either in a real life setting.

However, I've never really thought of transexuals as "wrong" but the thought of someone fucking a dog, goat, cat, monkey, etc fills me with rage.

Should I blame the government, society, or the images on TV?

Hmm. Perhaps it's Canada's fault...


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## Nylak (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm amazed this debate is still going on.  xD

I held a similar poll on deviantART (trannies vs. furries), and based on the results of about 500 people who responded to the poll, furries are more hated than trannies.

Are we surprised?  FURSECUTION I SAY.  ...Haha, I kid.  >>;


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## Endless Humiliation (Oct 22, 2009)

"How does one define 'normal'?"

:FUKKENGOONSAY:


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## twelvestring (Oct 22, 2009)

I wonder if dogs barking is their endless debate on weather or not it's right to hump human leg because people can't consent. lol

On topic: 1. People look down on bestiality more then trannies.
              2. Trannies have suffered more extreme persecution than beasties.


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## Xaerun (Oct 22, 2009)

Not sure if srs...


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## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 22, 2009)

Bambi said:


> Okay, question:
> 
> While most of us don't condone beastiality in the forums, why does the fandom still tolerate anatomically correct dog knots, horse cocks, etc. in teh pictars?
> 
> I mean, if you didn't know what one looked like, you'd have to find out, correct?



I have often wondered this myself. I hate seeing animal-like anatomy on an anthro, got to be human like anatomy for me.

On topic: I believe bestiality is far worse than transsexualism. I know of a transsexual irl (not personally, but know of him/her) I am not creeped out by trannies. I think the general public however, would look down on transsexualism more than bestiality for the simple reason transsexuals are much more common and open about their....umm.....not sure what to call it, than zoophiles are. I mean who in their right mind would go out and broadcast "I'm a zoophile!" out in the street? 

If a transsexual walked down the street in my town, the local group of chavs MIGHT poke a bit of fun at them, if a zoophile walked past them bragging about what he/she likes, they would probably get a kicking of a lifetime.  

I did notice after reading through eight pages of this thread that, most (if not all) references to "Having parts amputated" where at the males. Have we all forgotten that girls have sex changes also? For example that girl who had a sex change, took male hormones, grew a beard etc, and then gave birth to a baby....which I think happened last year. Just wondering if anyone remembered that as the first four pages seemed a bit biased towards male turning female transsexuals.


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## Carenath (Oct 22, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> Say, "most/some of the fandom". I would definitely prefer human-like "cocks" over dog/horse/etc "cocks".


*cough* Bad Dragon *cough*



RandyDarkshade said:


> I have often wondered this myself. I hate seeing animal-like anatomy on an anthro, got to be human like anatomy for me.


I prefer anthro's that have proper anatomy appropriate for their species, everything else just seems wrong.


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## PriestRevan (Oct 22, 2009)

Carenath said:


> *cough* Bad Dragon *cough*



Don't even go there. They came out with a tentacle dildo.


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## Ozriel (Oct 22, 2009)

SexyRedFoxxy said:


> Transexuality!  Because Bestiality is misunderdstood



You jest?


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## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 22, 2009)

Carenath said:


> *cough* Bad Dragon *cough*
> 
> 
> I prefer anthro's that have proper anatomy appropriate for their species, everything else just seems wrong.



It isn't I "don't like" seeing a proper cock on an anthro fitting to that species, for some reason I just prefere a more human like anatomy. o.o But proper anatomy for specific species is ok with me.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 22, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> You jest?



I hope he does.  imo, if an animal can't speak words, it can not give consent.


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## 8-bit (Oct 22, 2009)

Trans, if they can make their whole body female. Too many times Ive seen manchins. *shudder*


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## Chouette (Oct 22, 2009)

Like LoboRoo, this thread makes me rage. >:[



> I think the general public however, would look down on transsexualism more than bestiality for the simple reason transsexuals are much more common and open about their....umm.....not sure what to call it



Of course we're more open about it. It's a lot easier to be open about your gender as opposed to being open about fucking animals. xD

Hell, everyone else in the world can be called by whatever gender they want. I don't see how asking someone to use the name/pronouns I want equals being too flamboyant/annoying/whatever. :l


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## Ozriel (Oct 22, 2009)

I think it is time we stop beating the desceased horse.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 22, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I think it is time we stop beating the desceased horse.



Yep, I think this thread has gone as far as it can now.


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## SnowFox (Oct 22, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I think it is time we stop beating the desceased horse.



oh murr


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## Conker (Oct 22, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I think it is time we stop beating the desceased horse.


In the furry community, they aren't beating the dead horse but trying to beat off the dead horse.

It's much worse


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 22, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> oh murr



^



Conker said:


> In the furry community, they aren't beating the dead horse but trying to beat off the dead horse.
> 
> It's much worse



That sounds HOT  (not really)


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## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 22, 2009)

Conker said:


> In the furry community, they aren't beating the dead horse but trying to beat off the dead horse.
> 
> It's much worse



Lol but EW!


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## CannonFodder (Oct 22, 2009)

Conker said:


> In the furry community, they aren't beating the dead horse but trying to beat off the dead horse.
> 
> It's much worse


I dun get it...
...
....
....
.....
.......
........
...........
AHHH!!! BAD MENTAL IMAGE!


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## Randy-Darkshade (Oct 22, 2009)

CannonFodder said:


> I dun get it...
> ...
> ....
> ....
> ...



thats nothing compared to 1guy1jar. An online friend linked me for some reason to it, and my RL friend who was over wanted to see it. I now, hate them both for I have that retched image STUCK in my fecking head!


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## Carenath (Oct 22, 2009)

Dead Horse... well and truely tenderised.
Closed..


----------

