# About Trump



## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 9, 2016)

Am I the only one here thinking it's totally right for him to be the president, since it shows how dumb and ignorant the americans can be that it all led to this bs....


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## Distorted (Nov 9, 2016)

What the fuck is wrong with people? What's wrong with you? No one deserves this. This is just.........really gross and wrong. Not even talking about Trump for a second the sheer polarization of the country is just asinine. Honestly, I feel people simply voted to stick it to the other side. Not because someone was qualified or anything important like that. It's so fucking stupid. And now we have the man who has said everything under the red sun as our president. This man is gonna represent us. Him and his homophobic vice president. 

As a black gay man, I'm honestly worried about the next 4 years. Republicans has a lot more control now. And I honestly think that things are going to regress as a result. But hey at least you stuck it to those uppity Liberals and SJW's right? I mean that's the only reason you would agree to such an asinine choice such as Trump. Otherwise I don't think you'd give a flying fuck. 

I'm so done right now. I need to take a break or something...


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## JumboWumbo (Nov 9, 2016)

Distorted said:


> But hey at least you stuck it to those uppity Liberals and SJW's right? I mean that's the only reason you would agree to such an asinine choice such as Trump. Otherwise I don't think you'd give a flying fuck.



It could also be because people didn't want a literal criminal in the White House...


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 9, 2016)

Well basically the choice between Clinton and Trump was the choice between seeing America go down in a war with russia, or going down in a funny way...
Since I'm from europe, I'm just gonna watch america go down and wonder how stupid the average american is that the whole situation has led to this


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## Mr.Foox (Nov 9, 2016)

EdgyMemeLord0 said:


> Well basically the choice between Clinton and Trump was the choice between seeing America go down in a war with russia, or going down in a funny way...
> Since I'm from europe, I'm just gonna watch america go down and wonder how stupid the average american is that the whole situation has led to this


Don't call my west coast ass stupid, I'll let you know I didn't vote and hide under my blanket like a goddamn man last night!


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## Distorted (Nov 9, 2016)

EdgyMemeLord0 said:


> Well basically the choice between Clinton and Trump was the choice between seeing America go down in a war with russia, or going down in a funny way...
> Since I'm from europe, I'm just gonna watch america go down and wonder how stupid the average american is that the whole situation has led to this



And I bet your ass will go down next. You must feel so nice sitting in your little seat looking on safely. But we're all connected buddy. If we're gonna deal with this you're gonna feel it too. 


JumboWumbo said:


> It could also be because people didn't want a literal criminal in the White House...



Oh cut the crap. All this stuff about crooked Hillary is pissing me off. She wasn't who I wanted either, but she was better than fucking Trump. He's done some stupid shady shit too, and I worry about what he can do moreso than Hillary. At least Hillary played the game. That idiot is gonna ruin everything.


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## nerdbat (Nov 9, 2016)

Distorted said:


> Oh cut the crap. All this stuff about crooked Hillary is pissing me off. She wasn't who I wanted either, but she was better than fucking Trump. He's done some stupid shady shit too, and I worry about what he can do moreso than Hillary. At least Hillary played the game. That idiot is gonna ruin everything.


The thing is, aside of rather silly public behavior, Trump seems to be rather competent, at least when it comes to finances and making good relationships. He didn't became a billionare for nothing, believe me. Clinton, on the other side, is more or less an American analogue of Medvedev - she was pretty much a puppet before, and she would be one as a president.


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 9, 2016)

These answers...
So HILLARYious


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## Wolveon (Nov 9, 2016)

Hopefully there's enough safe spaces for the anti-Trumpers. They're definitely going to need to escape reality after this.


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## Distorted (Nov 9, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> The thing is, aside of rather silly public behavior, Trump seems to be rather competent, at least when it comes to finances and making good relationships. He didn't became a billionare for nothing, believe me. Clinton, on the other side, is more or less an American analogue of Medvedev - she was pretty much a puppet before, and she would be one as a president.



I'm sorry. I'm hearing you, but I can't accept this man. You mark my words shit's gonna get worse. 

First ObamaCare's gonna go. Fuck that right, no affordable healthcare for the lessers.
Then they're gonna give the fat cat corporates their tax cuts. It'll be up to the kindness of their hearts to play fairly.
Then that VP bigots gonna tackle down gay rights, or just rights as they should be. And the other houses will be happy to oblige him.
Then they might as well go after civil rights too. Cause fuck minorities. Bye Hispanics, bye Muslims....
Then to top it all off he'll make Mexico pay for a fucking wall, the South will rise again, and mastah's gonna crack a whip on my back reminding me of my place. 

You may think I'm being dramatic, but I honestly think things will get worse. America hasn't gave a fuck about people like me, so I don't see why I should give a fuck and accept this orange bastard.


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 9, 2016)

Distorted said:


> this orange bastard.


Damn, I like the way you think... Maybe Trump is just a grown up Oompa Loompa?


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## Mr.Foox (Nov 9, 2016)

I get Medicare and I called my doc, she's was like yo faggot if you ain't sick or dead I don't care. My dentist was like yo we can only rip your teeth out can't do nothing else. So yeah it wouldn't really matter since the doctor or dentist doesn't care in the first place...I mean I get it your overflowed with patients but don't treat me like nothing when I show up I'm not a freaking dog...well mostly.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Nov 9, 2016)

I'm proud that Trump has won. The Trump Train finally made it to the white house!


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 9, 2016)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> I'm proud that Trump has won. The Trump Train finally made it to the white house!


You have just _*TRIGGERED *_a lot of people....


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## Distorted (Nov 9, 2016)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> I'm proud that Trump has won. The Trump Train finally made it to the white house!



Watch that asshole try to put his name on the White House. I'm sure he's already got a spot picked out.


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## Guilleum2 (Nov 9, 2016)

Most of the people around me today are foreigners, part of the LGBT+ community or people of color. They are all very frightened right now. Their rights as well as mine may be taken away. This is not a funny joke. 

I'm so disappointed in my country right now.

We'll see where we are in the next couple of months. Then we can make some accurate predictions.


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## Jarren (Nov 9, 2016)

Regrading all the complaints about repealing Obama care, more people opted to drop their healthcare and pay the fine than chose to deal with the rate hike. We have, in my state at least, seen a net INCREASE of uninsured people. Also, I've not heard of a single person who has saved money under the scheme. I agree that people should all have easy access to affordable healthcare, but no matter how you slice it, Obama care flopped (not to mention the lie about keeping your doctor). It needs to be approached from the ground up by a more competent team.


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## Prostapheresys (Nov 9, 2016)

My only consolation is that after many years of my country being laughed at for our former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi, now WE will laugh. Good luck with Trump (or "the American Berlusconi" as we alredy call him here in Italy) as your president. 
Now please excuse me, I'm about to leave this planet


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## Yakamaru (Nov 9, 2016)

Guilleum2 said:


> Most of the people around me today are foreigners, part of the LGBT+ community or people of color. They are all very frightened right now. Their rights as well as mine may be taken away. This is not a funny joke.
> 
> I'm so disappointed in my country right now.
> 
> We'll see where we are in the next couple of months. Then we can make some accurate predictions.


Unless those people are illegal and/or criminals they have NOTHING to fear.


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## nerdbat (Nov 9, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Unless those people are illegal and/or criminals they have NOTHING to fear.


(are there any legal criminals anyway? .o. )


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## Yakamaru (Nov 9, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> (are there any legal criminals anyway? .o. )


Yes, actually. Quite a decent amount of them.

Immigrants and crime: Crunching the numbers - CNNPolitics.com

And yes, that's actually CNN, believe it or not. These statistics are for 2014.

*177,960*
^ Illegal immigrant criminals deported

*121*
^ People released then later incarcerated due to crime committed after being released

*73,665*
^ Total amount of inmates NOT with a US citizenship, aka illegals

So yes, illegal immigrants HAVE criminals amongst them. Kick out all illegals and you won't have illegal aliens committing crime. If you are illegal BECOME legal through legal means. Or you will be deported.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 9, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Unless those people are illegal and/or criminals they have NOTHING to fear.



What about Donald's open statement that he plans to appoint supreme justices that will repeal equal marriage?
(the conversation is covered in this transcript: www.foxnews.com: Ted Cruz attacks Donald Trump's financial record; Trump responds)

Given that they struggled to finally be perceived as more than second class citizens or deviated perverts, one could quite easily imagine that gay people would be justifiably upset about Donald's election.



Yakamaru said:


> Yes, actually.



You missed Nerdbat's joke. 

He was making a joke that you said 'only illegals and criminals should worry' when you may as well just have said 'only criminals should worry' because being an illegal immigrant is itself a crime.


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## RandomNinja11 (Nov 9, 2016)

Let's look at some quotes by our new Commander in Chief. These are a couple of gems, here.

*"I have a great relationship with the blacks."
"If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific."
“I did try and fuck her. She was married.”*
_(On McCain's past as a POW)_ *"I like people who weren't captured, OK?"
“Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”
“It’s freezing and snowing in New York – we need global warming!"
“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass."
“I will build a great wall... and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."
“I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”*

God help us all...


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Nov 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> What about Donald's open statement that he plans to appoint supreme justices that will repeal equal marriage?
> (the conversation is covered in this transcript: www.foxnews.com: Ted Cruz attacks Donald Trump's financial record; Trump responds)
> 
> Given that they struggled to finally be perceived as more than second class citizens or deviated perverts, one could quite easily imagine that gay people would be justifiably upset about Donald's election.
> ...



At this point I legit believe Trump is more LGBT friendly than Hillary. Hillary is not only paid off by Middle Eastern countries but she cracked the biggest smile when Trump told her that the Middle East kill gays and women through many vile methods


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## Fallowfox (Nov 9, 2016)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> At this point I legit believe Trump is more LGBT friendly than Hillary. Hillary is not only paid off by Middle Eastern countries but she cracked the biggest smile when Trump told her that the Middle East kill gays and women through many vile methods



The only way you can defend trump's policies is by comparing him to Middle Eastern Warlords? 

Whoever was elected I don't think it would have changed a damn thing for gay people unfortunate enough to live in Saudi Arabia. You guys can't affect their lives. 
You are going to affect the lives of gay people who live in the USA though, where teenagers can still legally be subject to 'conversion therapies' that are essentially tantamount to 'torturing the gay away'.


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## phuma (Nov 9, 2016)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> At this point I legit believe Trump is more LGBT friendly than Hillary. Hillary is not only paid off by Middle Eastern countries but she cracked the biggest smile when Trump told her that the Middle East kill gays and women through many vile methods


Hillary isnt any less bigoted than Trump in the slightest.  She is a strong supporter of Israel, easily the most racist and xenophobic 1st world country on the planet.  why on earth would anyone vote for a liar and a hypocrite?






in this video sanders asked if israelis response to palestinians rather limply "attacking" israelis in response to them stealing palestinian land and brazenly oppressing palestinians was "disproportionate", hillary basically responded by implying that sanders         (an american jew) was an anti-semite.  hillary is totally in favor of illegal settlements and ethnic discrimination of others as long as you're a privileged israeli jew.


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## Saiko (Nov 9, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> The thing is, aside of rather silly public behavior, Trump seems to be rather competent, at least when it comes to finances and making good relationships. He didn't became a billionare for nothing, believe me. Clinton, on the other side, is more or less an American analogue of Medvedev - she was pretty much a puppet before, and she would be one as a president.


Right, let's just ignore the fact that Trump will be on trial for fraud, rape, and pedophilia in a couple months. The FBI couldn't even recommend charges for Hillary.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 9, 2016)

phuma said:


> Hillary isnt any less bigoted than Trump in the slightest.  She is a strong supporter of Israel, easily the most racist and xenophobic 1st world country on the planet.  why on earth would anyone vote for a liar and a hypocrite?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Speaking in 2006, Trump said that Israel was one of his favorite countries, adding: "I know that you’ve been through a lot recently... I believe Israel is a great country.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Donald_Trump


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## phuma (Nov 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> Speaking in 2006, Trump said that Israel was one of his favorite countries, adding: "I know that you’ve been through a lot recently... I believe Israel is a great country.”
> 
> Political positions of Donald Trump - Wikipedia



not sure what your point is.  i voted for Harambe.  

  criticizing one candidate does not equal unwavering support for the other.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 9, 2016)

phuma said:


> not sure what your point is.  i voted for Harambe.
> 
> criticizing one candidate does not equal unwavering support for the other.



...You invited a comparison in your comment by saying 'Hilary isn't less bigoted than Trump', implying that while Trump's policies on gay rights weren't favourable, Hilary supports israel, which is clearly just as bad. 

It seems strange that you would condemn a particular candidate for supporting israel when almost all american politicans express support for israel. 

I think your appraisal of Israel also lacks nuance, although I agree that criticism of Israel does not equate to antisemitism.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 9, 2016)

People can complain and bitch and fearmonger and assume shit as much as they want. Still won't change the fact that Trump won.

This is a big "Fuck you" to the establishment. Hillary were a candidate representing the status quo. And quite frankly, America wouldn't be able to survive 4 let alone 8 years of the same shit it's already been experiencing for decades.


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## nerdbat (Nov 9, 2016)

Saiko said:


> Right, let's just ignore the fact that Trump will be on trial for fraud, rape, and pedophilia in a couple months. The FBI couldn't even recommend charges for Hillary.


The whole rape/pedophilia thing was refiled and dropped several times before, so I highly doubt its veracity - not to mention that rape accusations among celebrities are something of a sad trend nowadays. As of fraud accusations - welp, nothing to say about that, can't earn a billion without always staying clean after all. Not like I'm justifying him or something, it's just that IMO he's not as incompetent as many may see him, and while his persona may be shady, he can also do some actual good for the nation. Not to mention Russia-US relationship I talked about before - Trump likes Russia, and Russia likes Trump, so it can be a start for things between two nations finally improving, while with Clinton (who's personal disdain for Russia was pretty clear), we could go back to the Cold War state again.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 9, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> People can complain and bitch and fearmonger and assume shit as much as they want. Still won't change the fact that Trump won.
> 
> *This is a big "Fuck you" to the establishment*. Hillary were a candidate representing the status quo. And quite frankly, America wouldn't be able to survive 4 let alone 8 years of the same shit it's already been experiencing for decades.



Yeah, Billionare business moguls sure as hell will realise they don't run the country now!

...oh wait, shit.


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## phuma (Nov 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> ...You invited a comparison in your comment by saying 'Hilary isn't less bigoted than Trump


correct. ignoring your false comparison, based on what i actually posted.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Nov 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> The only way you can defend trump's policies is by comparing him to Middle Eastern Warlords?
> 
> Whoever was elected I don't think it would have changed a damn thing for gay people unfortunate enough to live in Saudi Arabia. You guys can't affect their lives.
> You are going to affect the lives of gay people who live in the USA though, where teenagers can still legally be subject to 'conversion therapies' that are essentially tantamount to 'torturing the gay away'.



I'm not comparing them to the Middle East. I'm saying that Hillary who says she supports gays and women accepts bloody money from an area in the world known to be one of the shittiest places to live if you're gay or a woman

There's hypocrisy and then there's "lol I don't care"


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## Fallowfox (Nov 9, 2016)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> I'm not comparing them to the Middle East. I'm saying that Hillary who says she supports gays and women accepts bloody money from an area in the world known to be one of the shittiest places to live if you're gay or a woman
> 
> There's hypocrisy and then there's "lol I don't care"



As Phuma complained, you're not addressing my criticism of trump; you're just discussing another candidate.

But if we have to compare them, then the pragmatic value was with hillary clinton, because schmoozing with the middle east has little effect on the lives of the people who live there- they just portray somebody as hypocritical, whereas the domestic policy decisions really do matter.

There is such a thing as being a hypocrite as well as being right about something. For example if Donald Trump said groping was wrong, he's be right, even though he's famously bragged about doing it.



phuma said:


> correct. ignoring your false comparison, based on what i actually posted.



If you are going to say 'I am comparing these two people, and I dislike person X, compared to person Y, because they support Israel' then you should admit you have made a mistake if it turns out person Y also supports Israel.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Nov 9, 2016)

Let it go y'all.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 9, 2016)

^^ Yes. It's done. Now we wait & see. If this wasn't the right choice, then hopefully we can fix it in 4yrs.


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## AsheSkyler (Nov 9, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> ^^ Yes. It's done. Now we wait & see. If this wasn't the right choice, then hopefully we can fix it in 4yrs.


Bet on it being eight years if Trump runs again. Except for Bush Sr., we've had a trend of opting for a double shot since Reagan. And each time the opposing side plotting and planning how to undo the harm caused by the winner when they get back in power again. A rather curious yet predictable pattern.


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## Guilleum2 (Nov 9, 2016)

Just keep your eyes open. If something really terrible happens you still have the power to impeach.


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## Voltorb (Nov 9, 2016)

RandomNinja11 said:


> Let's look at some quotes by our new Commander in Chief. These are a couple of gems, here.
> 
> *"I have a great relationship with the blacks."
> "If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific."
> ...



To be fair, he didn't actually say the second one, but all the others are real.


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## Tetrachroma (Nov 9, 2016)

EdgyMemeLord0 said:


> Am I the only one here thinking it's totally right for him to be the president, since it shows how dumb and ignorant the americans can be that it all led to this bs....


That's pretty prejudice. 59.6 million people voted for Trump. Sounds like a lot, right? Well the US has a current population of 318.9 million.

That's 18.6% of its population. _And he_ _won_. Less than 40% even voted to begin with, that's how disgusted America was with the leading candidates.


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## Rant (Nov 9, 2016)

phuma said:


> not sure what your point is.  i voted for Harambe.
> 
> criticizing one candidate does not equal unwavering support for the other.


You and 11,000 fuck tards voted for a dead animal as a joke. Now a real and dangerous animal is representing and leading this nation. Way to go.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 9, 2016)

Tetrachroma said:


> That's pretty prejudice. 59.6 million people voted for Trump. Sounds like a lot, right? Well the US has a current population of 318.9 million.
> 
> That's 18.6% of its population. _And he_ _won_. Less than 40% even voted to begin with, that's how disgusted America was with the leading candidates.


And a lot of these dumb motherfuckers are moving to Canada. I just say let the fuckers leave. Canada is being more fucked by Trudaeu in 1 year than any other candidate have managed their entire time as a PM. And when America goes totes great and Canada starts sucking, these nitwits will most likely want to move back. I guarantee you.

I just hope the celebrities like Amy Schumer and Lena Dunham actually buggers off to Canada like they promised they would. America doesn't need nor want them. And frankly, neither does Europe. Except for the migrants. They seem to enjoy fresh young women.

Trudaeu is currently the laughing stock of the planet, right after Merkel and the EU.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Nov 9, 2016)

Tetrachroma said:


> That's pretty prejudice. 59.6 million people voted for Trump. Sounds like a lot, right? Well the US has a current population of 318.9 million.
> 
> That's 18.6% of its population. _And he_ _won_. Less than 40% even voted to begin with, that's how disgusted America was with the leading candidates.


Ain't like your vote counts. We wouldn't need an Electoral College if it did. Come on people!!! Don't be ignorant! You are just a number to our government. A slave. Get a job. Pay your taxes like a good share cropper, and you'll remain free. Othetwise your thrown in jail or prison, they take all your shit to pay off your tax debt, so now you're unemployed and homeless. The reality is harsh. It isn't rainbows and butterflies. The USA is so far from a democracy it hurts.


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## Tetrachroma (Nov 9, 2016)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Ain't like your vote counts. We wouldn't need an Electoral College if it did. Come on people!!! Don't be ignorant! You are just a number to our government. A slave. Get a job. Pay your taxes like a good share cropper, and you'll remain free. Othetwise your thrown in jail or prison, they take all your shit to pay off your tax debt, so now you're unemployed and homeless. The reality is harsh. It isn't rainbows and butterflies. The USA is so far from a democracy it hurts.


They display the number of votes online, down to the exact whole number. That looks like it counts to me.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Nov 9, 2016)

Tetrachroma said:


> They display the number of votes online, down to the exact whole number. That looks like it counts to me.


Look, 3,456,876 . it's a number. Does it mean anything. No. Our Supreme court chose our president in 2000. Even though those numbers wete out there for everyone to see, the electoral college still chose bush. And I guarantee if Gore had become president, our armed forces would never have stepped foot in Iraq. None of our boys and girls would have died there. Afghanistan, yes. Iraq, no. Those numbers don't mean shit.


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## Tetrachroma (Nov 9, 2016)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Look, 3,456,876 . it's a number. Does it mean anything. No. Our Supreme court chose our president in 2000. Even though those numbers wete out there for everyone to see, the electoral college still chose bush. And I guarantee if Gore had become president, our armed forces would never have stepped foot in Iraq. None of our boys and girls would have died there. Afghanistan, yes. Iraq, no. Those numbers don't mean shit.


But keep in mind, the majority of Republican members who work for the federal government - Congress, the Judiciary, etc. - are openly against Trump. If the federal government truly wanted to cheat in any way, they would have gone for Hillary instead. She's an insidious monster, sure, but she's not a complete pompous asshat like Trump.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 9, 2016)

Hillary would've made a better president despite her criminal history, at least she has some _real _political experience and years of it. Besides, as if Trump never committed a crime...


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## Tetrachroma (Nov 9, 2016)

Mr. Fox said:


> Hillary would've made a better president despite her criminal history, at least she has some _real _political experience and years of it. Besides, as if Trump never committed a crime...


Yeah. Being a reserved, empathetic Catholic, I will only ever vote for candidates based on their morals.

_(And holy hell, were these candidates immoral)
_
But at least from a political standpoint, Hillary actually knows what she's doing. If I were to set morals aside, I suppose I would have probably chosen her.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 9, 2016)

Tetrachroma said:


> Yeah. Being a reserved, empathetic Catholic, I will only ever vote for candidates based on their morals.
> 
> _(And holy hell, were these candidates immoral)
> _
> But at least from a political standpoint, Hillary actually knows what she's doing. If I were to set morals aside, I suppose I would have probably chosen her.


What it really came down to for me is who would I be voting for, a known criminal in the political sect or a manipulative sleazebag that'd exploit you for $20 for an ordinary rock (and yes, that actually happened.)

In any case, I follow George Carlin's philosophy on election day, at least I get something out of it...


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## Mobius (Nov 10, 2016)

As long as Trump leaves gun rights alone, I'm fine with him. Legal citizens cannot be deported.


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## Tetrachroma (Nov 10, 2016)

Mobius said:


> As long as Trump leaves gun rights alone, I'm fine with him. Legal citizens cannot be deported.


Yeah, I think he's pro-gun. Hillary was very much against it.

Dang, now I'm back to not leaning toward either of them, regardless of morals.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 10, 2016)

Mobius said:


> As long as Trump leaves gun rights alone, I'm fine with him. Legal citizens cannot be deported.


He's pro 2nd and 1st Amendment, which Hillary would restrict or ultimately remove.

So yes, if you don't want your MOST important rights taken, Trump is the best choice.

And how I understand it, the first Amendment is your most important one, followed by the 2nd.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> He's pro 2nd and 1st Amendment, which Hillary would restrict or ultimately remove.
> 
> So yes, if you don't want your MOST important rights taken, Trump is the best choice.
> 
> And how I understand it, the first Amendment is your most important one, followed by the 2nd.



The 1st amendment is the freedom of religion. Trump is anti first amendment because he wants to subject people from different religions to different legal standards.
Trump has also castigated freedom of assembly and despises the freedom of the press. 

Apparently those are the most important rights, according to you...which makes me wonder whether you even know what the first amendment says?


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## Wolveon (Nov 11, 2016)

Mr. Fox said:


> Hillary would've made a better president despite her criminal history, at least she has some _real _political experience and years of it. Besides, as if Trump never committed a crime...


Yeah, but her crimes are much worse. Like Trump said, she has experience, but most of it is bad.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 11, 2016)

Wolveon said:


> Yeah, but her crimes are much worse. Like Trump said, she has experience, but most of it is bad.



Given she was twice exonerated by the FBI, I suspect 'crooked hillary' was a campaign smear tactic and nothing more. 

Indeed, if Donald Trump thought that Hillary was a criminal, why did he donate to her foundation in 2009 and ask her to come to his wedding?
He obviously just invented this narrative for the campaign, and you guys bought it hook-line-and-sinker.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 11, 2016)

ahrimanzora said:


> She was not *exonerated* they claimed they didn't see anything to form the basis of a case with. More importantly, Obama was standing next to FBI Directory Comey and holding him by the balls. If you want to see some of the actual crimes detailed in the emails, try Assange:
> 
> 
> 
> Actual emails included! "Pay to Play" = accepting bribes to get what you want from government. It is illegal, and if you search the [REDACTED] there are a lot of them.



And there's also people who claim there are spirit cooking emails that show Podesta drinks blood mixed with sperm.
If there was content demonstrating serious criminal activity in the public sphere then there would have been a conviction.

Regarding that, Trump's election to president likely means he will avoid proceedings concerning fraud that were being opened against him for 'Trump University' which deceived applicants into wasting their life savings. Applicants to the institution, which didn't qualify as a University (and was forced to change its name as a result), were told they would meet Donald Trump when they graduated. They met a card board cut out. $36,000 in order to stand next to a cardboard cut out of Trump...fantastic.
It's pretty much the plot to the 'Kamp Krusty' episode of the Simpsons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University#Allegations_of_impropriety_and_lawsuits


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> The 1st amendment is the freedom of religion. Trump is anti first amendment because he wants to subject people from different religions to different legal standards.
> Trump has also castigated freedom of assembly and despises the freedom of the press.
> 
> Apparently those are the most important rights, according to you...which makes me wonder whether you even know what the first amendment says?


Somewhat correct on the first Amendment. But you apparently didn't use Google for FIVE fucking seconds to find out.

*Amendment* I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Religion, speech, press, assembly, protesting and expression. And unless I know better, YES, it's the most important Amendment.

And no, Trump is NOT anti-1st Amendment. Putting certain groups that are STATISTICALLY more likely to commit crimes/terrorism is how you deal with such groups in the first place. Lets say blacks committed 90% of all crimes. Wouldn't it be LOGICAL and 0f somewhat common sense to put a lot more effort and surveillance on BLACK people and black neighborhoods in general?

Trump wants all religions to be subject to the SAME standards. And currently, Islam and Muslims are put under a different standard. No more. If they are aggressive they WILL be kicked out. America does not need non-integratable immigrants. Neither does any Western country for that matter.

Blacks commit 40% of all crime and 50% of all homicides. When 13% of the population commit 50% of all murders you take countermeasures.

How about giving evidence where he says SPECIFICALLY he's against the first Amendment? Would love to see video evidence.



ahrimanzora said:


> She was not *exonerated* they claimed they didn't see anything to form the basis of a case with. More importantly, Obama was standing next to FBI Directory Comey and holding him by the balls. If you want to see some of the actual crimes detailed in the emails, try Assange:
> 
> 
> 
> Actual emails included! "Pay to Play" = accepting bribes to get what you want from government. It is illegal, and if you search the [REDACTED] there are a lot of them.


I love Julian Assange. So many ignoring him and Wikileaks and Edward Snowden because they are either too stupid to understand what is going on or suffer from cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty.
"Tolerant Progressive Liberal Left" my ass.

The Liberal Left in America is a fucking joke.


----------



## aloveablebunny (Nov 11, 2016)

Distorted said:


> What the fuck is wrong with people? What's wrong with you? No one deserves this. This is just.........really gross and wrong. Not even talking about Trump for a second the sheer polarization of the country is just asinine. Honestly, I feel people simply voted to stick it to the other side. Not because someone was qualified or anything important like that. It's so fucking stupid. And now we have the man who has said everything under the red sun as our president. This man is gonna represent us. Him and his homophobic vice president.
> 
> As a black gay man, I'm honestly worried about the next 4 years. Republicans has a lot more control now. And I honestly think that things are going to regress as a result. But hey at least you stuck it to those uppity Liberals and SJW's right? I mean that's the only reason you would agree to such an asinine choice such as Trump. Otherwise I don't think you'd give a flying fuck.
> 
> I'm so done right now. I need to take a break or something...


I really, really hate that there are so many people who are now fearful for their lives, their families, their fundamental rights, and their futures because of this election's results. I hate that extremists use Trump's presidency as an excuse to be abhorrent and hateful human beings. Seeing all the tweets, status updates, and posts like this makes my heart hurt.


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## RileyTheOtter (Nov 11, 2016)

aloveablebunny said:


> I really, really hate that there are so many people who are now fearful for their lives, their families, their fundamental rights, and their futures because of this election's results. I hate that extremists use Trump's presidency as an excuse to be abhorrent and hateful human beings. Seeing all the tweets, status updates, and posts like this makes my heart hurt.


I don't even have anxiety and this election along with everything that's happened since is bringing me to fear whether or not i'll even live to see 2018...I might be a blonde haired green eyed white man, but i'm also autistic, bisexual, an empath, and an atheist. I don't consider being white or blonde as part of my identity, the other descriptors are very integral to my identity...the only thing going for me right now is that my city only has just under eighteen thousand people in it...a very large portion of which are Hispanic. there's no riots here...but just 30 miles away the day after the election a college apartment building became a four alarm fire with 24 departments responding...


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## LycanTheory (Nov 11, 2016)

Gawd... those who still live their lives jacked into the paradigm...

There is no left and right, they are both two sides to the same worthless coin. Under Hillary, we would lose rights and freedoms and we will under Trump as well, just as we have under Bush and Obama.

When this nation finally wakes up and realizes that the only two choices we have are between liberty and tyranny, that's when the healing and the progress will begin.

Until then... what's the sense in arguing over lesser of two evils? They're both evil no matter which way you cut it.


----------



## KitSly (Nov 11, 2016)

JumboWumbo said:


> It could also be because people didn't want a literal criminal in the White House...


After processing it for a few days, I think it is mainly because no one liked any of the candidates, but they voted for Trump just to show the "establishment" that they are tired of politics-as-usual and want change.  That is why, I feel, so many people supported Bernie Sanders.  They wanted real substantive change.  It is still no reason to vote for Trump and destroy this country in the process though.

The good thing is, if he is found guilty in the Trump University  racketeering case, he will be impeached.  The bad part of that is, that would leave Mike Pence as president.


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## RileyTheOtter (Nov 11, 2016)

KitSly said:


> After processing it for a few days, I think it is mainly because no one liked any of the candidates, but they voted for Trump just to show the "establishment" that they are tired of politics-as-usual and want change.  That is why, I feel, so many people supported Bernie Sanders.  They wanted real substantive change.  It is still no reason to vote for Trump and destroy this country in the process though.
> 
> The good thing is, if he is found guilty in the Trump University  racketeering case, he will be impeached.  The bad part of that is, that would leave Mike Pence as president.


If that happened and Pence became president...i'd not only disappoint everyone in my life, I'd also be leaving my best friend on his own, my boyfriend behind, and breaking  a promise I made to a dead friend at his funeral to never make that same choice he did...


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## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

aloveablebunny said:


> I really, really hate that there are so many people who are now fearful for their lives, their families, their fundamental rights, and their futures because of this election's results. I hate that extremists use Trump's presidency as an excuse to be abhorrent and hateful human beings. Seeing all the tweets, status updates, and posts like this makes my heart hurt.


Welcome to the "Tolerant Progressive Liberal Left".

They are anything BUT Tolerant, Progressive nor Liberal.

Tolerant people would not be bigots when disagreed with.
Progressives would look towards the horizon, not the fucking past, more specifically 60's version 2.0 with even more segregation.
Liberals who doesn't even know the core values of being a Liberal, nor know what the Non-Aggression Principle is.

If anyone were expected to be throwing about hatred, bigotry, racism, ageism and fascism, it would come from the "Tolerant Liberal Left".

Love how everyone is worried batshit crazy about their LGBT rights. Going to be fun seeing you eat those words when Trump does NOT take away your rights.

He likes the first AND second Amendment.


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## JumboWumbo (Nov 11, 2016)

Abyssalrider said:


> I don't even have anxiety and this election along with everything that's happened since is bringing me to fear whether or not i'll even live to see 2018...I might be a blonde haired green eyed white man, but i'm also autistic, bisexual, an empath, and an atheist. I don't consider being white or blonde as part of my identity, the other descriptors are very integral to my identity...the only thing going for me right now is that my city only has just under eighteen thousand people in it...a very large portion of which are Hispanic. there's no riots here...but just 30 miles away the day after the election a college apartment building became a four alarm fire with 24 departments responding...



Don't buy into the fear-mongering, man. As long as your in the country legally, you'll be fine.


----------



## RileyTheOtter (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Welcome to the "Tolerant Progressive Liberal Left".
> 
> They are anything BUT Tolerant, Progressive nor Liberal.
> 
> ...


it's not Trump that has the LGBTQ community worried...it's Pence.


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

Abyssalrider said:


> it's not Trump that has the LGBTQ community worried...it's Pence.


The POTUS NOR the VP can do jack shit in terms of laws without the support of the House and Congress. They can't remove, add or even change anything without the support of Congress and House.

America is not a dictatorship. The VP doesn't have much power, if any in actuality. And the POTUS isn't all-mighty. He has limitations to his power. Laws and legislations are one of them. He can however present suggestions to Congress.

Not to mention Trey Gowdy would not stand for that shit. He is one fighting for people's right to be heard, and their right to be free. Should see some of his content. You'd get an instant bro-boner for him. He's amongst the few politicians who genuinely are concerned about the people.

If you ever take away rights and/or force certain groups against their will there WILL be outcries. Trump knows this. Pence knows this. 

But being angry about it won't help your cause, only damage it. Be calm, present your grievances properly backed with good arguments. That's how it's been done in the past 100 years, and sure as hell won't stop now. And if enough people do it properly, they can't ignore you. 

I do genuinely understand your fear. A Christian and nationalist gets elected as POTUS and the VP is pretty much in the same religious boat.

But fearmongering and creating fear based on nothing but assumptions won't do shit. It will only have the opposite effect of what your original intentions were.


----------



## RileyTheOtter (Nov 11, 2016)

i'm not the one creating fear...do you even know Trump or Pence's stances on autism or LGBTQ rights? Doesn't take much effort to jump to conclusions on what's going to happen when Trump gets applauded for mocking the disabled, and his vice president wants to defund HIV research to provide funding for gay conversion therapy...do you see where I'm going with this being that i'm autistic and bisexual?


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

Yes, I do understand his stance. And I agree.

Islam either needs to reform and integrate or get kicked out.

It's 2 a minute video. The very least you can do is listen to his argument on the issue you find important.

Oh, and btw..

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...der-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/

If you ever wonder if he's anti-LGBT: ACTIONS speaks a thousand times more than someone elses words.


----------



## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 11, 2016)

Wow I thought there would be at least a normal discussion but I didn't expect it to turn into this....


----------



## RileyTheOtter (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Yes, I do understand his stance. And I agree.
> 
> Islam either needs to reform and integrate or get kicked out.
> 
> ...


Again it's not Trump's views on LGBT that I question, I question his view that vaccines cause autism. My concerns on LGBT rights are aimed at his vice-president who has repeatedly voted against rights, and favored allowing discrimination against us. And do I even need to explain that the Vice president has a direct part in congress? These are very real and very valid concerns, how do you not understand that?


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

http://www.naturalnews.com/051038_Donald_Trump_vaccines_autism.html

Trump is skeptical on vaccines because of the fraudulent data linking between Autism and vaccines. He however is for vaccines.

As for Mike Pence on LGBT: Decided to do some digging. And you got me there. He's a Christian after all. 

Question is what they will do once they actually have power. Taking away rights is not exactly how you win over voters let alone win over people.

Shit still remains to be seen.


----------



## RileyTheOtter (Nov 11, 2016)

right now, the only thing i'm hoping for is that this won't become Fallout: Reality Edition.


----------



## Very Hairy Larry (Nov 11, 2016)

Abyssalrider said:


> right now, the only thing i'm hoping for is that this won't become Fallout: Reality Edition.


It won't................


----------



## Fallowfox (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Somewhat correct on the first Amendment. But you apparently didn't use Google for FIVE fucking seconds to find out.
> 
> *Amendment* I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
> 
> ...



Actually using 5 seconds of google was exactly what I did to check when I pointed out your mistake. 

If you want a specific religious group to be placed under surveillance and barred from entering your country, then yes, you are violating the first amendment's promise to treat people equally before the law regardless of their religion. 

You can argue that it's 'logical' to treat different religious groups differently if they are predisposed to crime, but you will have to admit that this is to abandon first amendment rights. 

So which is it?


----------



## KitSly (Nov 11, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> Actually using 5 seconds of google was exactly what I did to check when I pointed out your mistake.
> 
> If you want a specific religious group to be placed under surveillance and barred from entering your country, then yes, you are violating the first amendment's promise to treat people equally before the law regardless of their religion.
> 
> ...


If you are arguing with Yakamura, whom I have blocked, you are just going to be shouting at a brick wall.  The guy is a hateful, anti-American troll.


----------



## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 11, 2016)

KitSly said:


> If you are arguing with Yakamura, whom I have blocked, you are just going to be shouting at a brick wall.  The guy is a hateful, anti-American troll.


*Yakamaru


----------



## aloveablebunny (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Welcome to the "Tolerant Progressive Liberal Left".
> 
> They are anything BUT Tolerant, Progressive nor Liberal.
> 
> ...



I knew it existed before this election's results [the bigotry and hate], it's just been magnified.

I have no political affiliation and am not particularly worried about my own rights, I just came here to state that social media *and* media is just depressing the hell out of me with all of the hateful crap that is being highlighted now.


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> Actually using 5 seconds of google was exactly what I did to check when I pointed out your mistake.
> 
> If you want a specific religious group to be placed under surveillance and barred from entering your country, then yes, you are violating the first amendment's promise to treat people equally before the law regardless of their religion.
> 
> ...


You can argue that it abandons the 1st Amendment all you want. The 1st Amendment is NOT broken when specific groups/individuals are put under surveillance.

You can exercise your freedom of speech, expression, peaceful assembly and religion all you want. But if crime/terrorism is involved the tone changes. Your rights will be limited if crime/terrorism is involved.

How would YOU go around dealing with one particular group doing more crime/terrorism?

There is NOTHING contradictory nor wrong to put one specific group/individual or groups/individuals under SURVEILLANCE if they in particular are much more prone to criminal acts and/or terrorism, until the problems have been dealt with. It means you have the balls to deal with the issue head on and not just TALK about it. Actions speaks a thousand times more than words.

United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia

^ Exceptions to the 1st Amendment.






^ How would YOU go around dealing with this Imam?

Statistically, Muslims are much more prone to radicalization and terrorism. They are committing 75% of all terrorist acts on the planet. You've obviously not read any statistics I've linked. Either that or you are knowingly dismissing them.

Like how Milo Yiannopoulos said it: "Fuck Islam".

Islam is a threat and needs to be dealt with.


----------



## JumboWumbo (Nov 11, 2016)

I'd just like to point out that it he is able to ban whatever group from entering the country.

8 U.S.C. § 1182:

_"Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate." _

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182


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## Fallowfox (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> You can argue that it abandons the 1st Amendment all you want. The 1st Amendment is NOT broken when specific groups/individuals are put under surveillance.
> 
> You can exercise your freedom of speech, expression, peaceful assembly and religion all you want. But if crime/terrorism is involved the tone changes. Your rights will be limited if crime/terrorism is involved.
> 
> ...



Different legal standards for different people, depending on their religion, is obviously a breach of the first amendment.
If a new president pledged to bar Jews or Hindus from entering his country, I doubt you'd disagree.

Extending different legal expectations and treatment to an entire group of people is prejudice rather than justice. *Individuals* who incite hatred and violence deserve to be brought before the law. Demoting everybody who happens to share their religion to a second class citizen is going to affect a lot of innocent people, like the Serbian Muslims who settled in the USA after fleeing the Balkan Genocide of 1995; why do _they_ deserve to be subject to collective punishment?

This is a matter which entails a lot of nuance, essentially.


At least, given that you are now discussing exceptions and limitations of the first amendment, it looks like I have convinced you that Donald is about curtailing the first amendment, rather than protecting it.


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

JumboWumbo said:


> I'd just like to point out that it he is able to ban whatever group from entering the country.
> 
> 8 U.S.C. § 1182:
> 
> ...


Thank you. Was just about to start digging for that one.


----------



## ahrimanzora (Nov 11, 2016)

Abyssalrider said:


> it's not Trump that has the LGBTQ community worried...it's Pence.


I've been hearing more of the phrase "Pence is Trump's life insurance." Any world with Pence as president is probably worse, so Trump is safe. Unfortunately it assumes that anyone willing to commit such a deed is rational in the first place.


----------



## ahrimanzora (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Like how Milo Yiannopoulos said it: "Fuck Islam".
> Islam is a threat and needs to be dealt with.



Islam is most of the world. You may want to narrow the scope of your argument.


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

ahrimanzora said:


> Islam is most of the world. You may want to narrow the scope of your argument.


Islam isn't "most of the world". It's a religion. A belief system. Or rather, an ideology masquerading as a religion.

And no, I don't need to narrow down jack shit. Islam is a clear threat to Western values and freedoms.

quran.com: Al-Qur'an al-Kareem - القرآن الكريم

^ The very essence of Islam.



Spoiler: Muslim












Get the difference?

Islam is as much people as the Torah are Jews.


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Nov 11, 2016)

ahrimanzora said:


> Islam is most of the world. You may want to narrow the scope of your argument.


Wrong. Islam may be the fastest growing religion, but Christianity is the most populous, and even that isn't in the majority across the planet.

Granted, a population roughly equal to that of China is something to take into consideration, but that's the oversimplified version - we haven't started going on about the different sects of Islam, let alone the regional differences that divide them even further. The ideology, Islamism, still lingers however, and it is Islamism that needs to be addressed.


----------



## ahrimanzora (Nov 11, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Islam isn't "most of the world". It's a religion. A belief system. Or rather, an ideology masquerading as a religion.
> 
> And no, I don't need to narrow down jack shit. Islam is a clear threat to Western values and freedoms.
> Get the difference?
> ...



Muslims are people, but both the Torah and Koran are both books that share chapters.
The phrase "peace be unto you" is obviously a clear threat to ... "western values and freedoms" you claim? "Peace" is obviously very threatening.
The world would be much different if we allowed the UN Majority to make decisions without veto power, because it would limit the ability of one nation to block humanitarian rights. I suggest you look up the number of times that the UN Veto power has been used by the "Big 5" in the last 60 years and for what purpose.

Africa as Christian is required to make it the #1 religion of the world, but there is a statistical bias to agree with the religion of whoever brings food.


----------



## AsheSkyler (Nov 11, 2016)

aloveablebunny said:


> I really, really hate that there are so many people who are now fearful for their lives, their families, their fundamental rights, and their futures because of this election's results. I hate that extremists use Trump's presidency as an excuse to be abhorrent and hateful human beings. Seeing all the tweets, status updates, and posts like this makes my heart hurt.


Yes, and double yes. I have a pretty strong dislike of Obama and some of the knucklehead things he said and did, but not once did I want him assassinated or wish vile things on his followers. Well, maybe a few comical things like the legs on their tables never being perfectly even so it would always wobble and spill their drinks, but nothing serious. I know that statistically you're always going to have at least a few nutjobs calling for ill, but there seems to be more than normal with this election.


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 11, 2016)

ahrimanzora said:


> Muslims are people


Correct. You seem to understand that Islam is NOT a people, group, race or anything physical. Muslims are not a race either.


ahrimanzora said:


> but both the Torah and Koran are both books that share chapters.


And yet, Jews gives NO flying fucks of what you call them. They give NO flying fucks of whether or not you criticize them. They give NO flying fucks of whether or not you disagree with them.

Jews have NO qualms about integrating. They are happy to do so. Muslims however DON'T integrate. They DON'T assimilate. They bring their OWN values, views and culture. Why are you bringing ANY of this if you intend to emigrate to a different country whose values are completely different than yours? When in Rome, do as the Romans.


ahrimanzora said:


> The phrase "peace be unto you" is obviously a clear threat to ... "western values and freedoms" you claim? "Peace" is obviously very threatening.


"Peace be unto you" is a phrase every religion use/have used. It's not exclusive to Islam. 

""Peace" is obviously very threatening"?

carm.org: Islamic Statistics on violence, rape, terror, sharia, isis, and welfare
List of battles and other violent events by death toll - Wikipedia
List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia
2016 Orlando nightclub shooting - Wikipedia
2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia
Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36559092
www.theguardian.com: Rochdale grooming case: nine men jailed for up to 25 years each
www.express.co.uk: CALAIS HORROR: Female journalist 'raped by knife-wielding migrants' at Jungle camp

^ If we are going by the Islamic term "peace", then yes, "peace" is VERY threatening. I hope you understand that "Islam" means "Submission" in Arabic?

75% of all terrorist attacks are caused by a Muslim or Muslims. Where were the Muslims protesting the shooting in Orlando? Where were the Muslims protesting the Nice, France attack?

Oh wait, they weren't present. They instead used the "racism card" and called anyone who disagrees with them "Islamophobic". Hell, you have people being arrested and/or being socially stigmatized for having a flag that says "Fuck ISIS".

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/01/muslim-offended-fck-isis-flag-police-calling-incitement/



Spoiler: EFFECTIVE border control








Note how the only fucking way they react is shouting "ALLAHU AKBAR, ALLAHU AKBAR!"

And people want this human TRASH to enter Western countries and start shit here, too.



quran.com: Al-Qur'an al-Kareem - القرآن الكريم

^ Go do some reading to understand what Islam REALLY is about.

Also some buzzwords you might wanna look up: Kaffir/Kuffar, Taqiyya, Taharrush, Sharia, Hadith.

Notice how in EVERY region where there's enough Muslims they start stirring up shit?

Recommendation: Go visit Dearborn, Michigan. A fine destination for meeting such "lovely" people.


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Nov 11, 2016)

ahrimanzora said:


> Muslims are people, but both the Torah and Koran are both books that share chapters.
> The phrase "peace be unto you" is obviously a clear threat to ... "western values and freedoms" you claim? "Peace" is obviously very threatening.


This is nitpicking specific parts of holy texts that are otherwise pretty violent in tone. While acceptable from the stance of a humanist, bear in mind that you have to accept the whole package for what it is if you fully intend to follow any religion (even if you practice a synchretic faith like Druze where you'll nitpick as you see fit). You can disagree with parts and emphasize others, but in the end it must be accepted in its entirety.


> The world would be much different if we allowed the UN Majority to make decisions without veto power, because it would limit the ability of one nation to block humanitarian rights. I suggest you look up the number of times that the UN Veto power has been used by the "Big 5" in the last 60 years and for what purpose.


To be fair, I can think of a number of ways that the UN could be exploited for fun and profit in the _absence_ of veto power. You'll still get power blocs within that will attempt to subvert the purpose of the UN for their own gain, and granting veto power to opposing influential powers means that you can have checks and balances to prevent such abuse.

That doesn't mean that veto power can't be abused, but it's arguably better than doing away with it completely.

In the end, any system that we can devise we'll likely find a way to exploit and abuse if given the opportunity. That's just human nature for you.


----------



## ahrimanzora (Nov 11, 2016)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> This is nitpicking specific parts of holy texts that are otherwise pretty violent in tone. While acceptable from the stance of a humanist, bear in mind that you have to accept the whole package for what it is if you fully intend to follow any religion (even if you practice a synchretic faith like Druze where you'll nitpick as you see fit). You can disagree with parts and emphasize others, but in the end it must be accepted in its entirety.
> 
> To be fair, I can think of a number of ways that the UN could be exploited for fun and profit in the _absence_ of veto power. You'll still get power blocs within that will attempt to subvert the purpose of the UN for their own gain, and granting veto power to opposing influential powers means that you can have checks and balances to prevent such abuse.
> 
> ...


But the majority of UN Veto power has been used by the US to protect Israel from war crimes and accountability for extreme violence. I studied, interviewed both sides, fact checked, studied again and decided that Israel should harshly penalized. They are attempting to make "theocracy" into law, to guarantee the Jewish minority rule over the majority. Examine the use of Veto power in the UN and maybe we can discuss again. 

Most people don't realize that Islam, Judaism and Catholicism (my distinction here is personal and would take too many pages to explain Catholic vs Christian) all have the Old Testament in common. The split was at the time of Abraham. Everyone is using the same holy text to justify attacking the other non-believers who follow the same passages as justification for attacking back. Having studied the blackmail of England to get the creation of Israel pushed through the UN, and the subsequent mismanagement thereof, I don't think that there is a plausible way of solving the Jerusalem conflict. It is holy land to 3 groups.


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Nov 11, 2016)

ahrimanzora said:


> But the majority of UN Veto power has been used by the US to protect Israel from war crimes and accountability for extreme violence. I studied, interviewed both sides, fact checked, studied again and decided that Israel should harshly penalized. They are attempting to make "theocracy" into law, to guarantee the Jewish minority rule over the majority. Examine the use of Veto power in the UN and maybe we can discuss again.


Like I said, I'm not arguing over whether veto power can be abused - it most certainly can be, and I will not doubt your cited example of this. With that said, it's a little ironic to talk about Jewish minority rule over the majority when a disproportionate percentage of the Israeli government are in fact Druze, who are not only even more of an ethnic minority there but also have similarly disproportionate political power in Syria and Lebanon.

But I digress. Nations don't have friends; they have interests, and the US has so far not cared about what goes on in Israel so long as the vassal remains a reliable means for the US to exert its influence over the rest of the Middle East. Realpolitik at its finest, really.


> Most people don't realize that Islam, Judaism and Catholicism (my distinction here is personal and would take too many pages to explain Catholic vs Christian) all have the Old Testament in common. The split was at the time of Abraham. Everyone is using the same holy text to justify attacking the other non-believers who follow the same passages as justification for attacking back. Having studied the blackmail of England to get the creation of Israel pushed through the UN, and the subsequent mismanagement thereof, I don't think that there is a plausible way of solving the Jerusalem conflict. It is holy land to 3 groups.


One could argue to nuke it from existence, but that would piss off far too many people to be a worthwhile endeavor.

I could also sit back and list off why I would disagree with you on the Catholic vs Christian debate (mostly on the grounds of one comprising two major sects - Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox - and the latter being the religion those two sects are part of), but we've strayed far enough from the OP as it is.


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## Fallowfox (Nov 11, 2016)

I am surprised at the discussion of religion in this thread, which whilst containing some surprising nuances, such as the recognition of Druze, also contains some surprising inaccuracies, such as the claim the Catholics aren't Christians (even though other forms of Christianity, like Protestantism are themselves off-shoots of Catholicism, forming in the great schism, and the protestant Landsknecht who sacked Rome were actually *worse *than the debauched papacy...(they disemboweled people in the street and halved the population of Rome)).

Many religion's doctrines propound retrograde social attitudes, and religious faith can quite evidently easily be manipulated to inspire violence. I personally think this is unsurprising, because religions are faith based philosophies, rather than ones based on reason and evidence.

Redressing retrograde religious attitudes is a nuanced matter which has to be approached by criticising religious doctrine and holding people who place their religious belief ahead of other people's human rights to account. (something that clearly _wasn't _done in places like Rotherham, where police avoided arresting sex offenders who were muslims for misplaced fears of aggravating prejudice)
Collectively punishing entire groups will make them feel like they are a martyred and oppressed minority, and will throw provide fuel for the rhetoric of those depraved elements which believe this justifies violence.


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## ahrimanzora (Nov 11, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> I am surprised at the discussion of religion in this thread, which whilst containing some surprising nuances, such as the recognition of Druze, also contains some surprising inaccuracies, such as the claim the Catholics aren't Christians (even though other forms of Christianity, like Protestantism are themselves off-shoots of Catholicism, forming in the great schism, and the protestant Landsknecht who sacked Rome were actually *worse *than the debauched papacy...(they disemboweled people in the street and halved the population of Rome)).


That wasn't my claim and the actual logic of my argument would be Nag Hammandi vs Council of Nicea, and then tracing the influence. I think that Christianity was over-influenced by Catholic edits to dogma; this thread is not the place to debate that.

More on topic would be this article: www.npr.org: FACT CHECK: Donald Trump's First 100 Days Action Plan


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## quoting_mungo (Nov 11, 2016)

Closing this thread for review.


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