# Want a second opinion: PC failure



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2009)

So, I didn't think it'd ever come to this, but here's the *short version*:

PC shut off overnight. Will not power on.
Removed all components besides CPU, PSU and mobo. Still will not power on. Fans twitch.
Removed mobo from the case to ensure no shorts; Still will not power on. Fans twitch.
Tried power supply in another, far less powerful computer; *PSU fan does not spin* (twitches; It isn't seized), but computer powers on.
Tried another power supply (an old Antec TruePower 2.0 430W, so it might not be surprising), no dice.
*PC powers on* _if the 12v connectors are not connected_.
Narrowed to PSU failure; Possible that mobo or CPU fried with it.
*Related Specs*:

ASUS M3A32-MVP Deluxe
AMD Athlon X2 6000+ (3.0GHz, Windsor, 125W)
4x1GB Generic/SpecTek DDR2-800
Sapphire Radeon HD 4850 512MB
SPI 600GLN 600W PSU (the real weak link here)
Antec 900 case
All approx. *1 year or so* in use.
Temperature readings were normal before this occurred (CPU ~40-50*C / GPU 60~70*C).
I don't have any other power supplies that might be able to power the computer, so I can't really test to be absolutely certain that it's only the power supply that's failed (I can barely afford to replace _that_). Any ideas?


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## ArielMT (Sep 27, 2009)

Buy a PSU tester and test your power supplies plugged into nothing but the tester and mains.

Remove everything from the motherboard except the CPU and fans.  Remove the RAM, even.  [Edit: Saw that you did this already.]  Retest with a known-good PSU.

Where you go from there depends on which tests pass.  If both pass, you're looking at something you removed being the cause.


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## ZentratheFox (Sep 27, 2009)

To me all signs point to PSU. Then again, it could have also taken the mobo out with it.

I have a brand new Ultra (lol) 400W-er laying around as well as an Apevia (also lol) 500W-er I can ship to you to test, before you spend some $$ on something that isn't necessary. Don't have any Corsairs laying around anymore, else I'd offer.


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## Runefox (Sep 27, 2009)

I've narrowed it to the motherboard. Even without the CPU and using a brand-new BFG 550W PSU, same thing. The PSU is definitely dying, but it's also blown the board. I hope my CPU is OK.


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## ZentratheFox (Sep 27, 2009)

Runefox said:


> I've narrowed it to the motherboard. Even without the CPU and using a brand-new BFG 550W PSU, same thing. The PSU is definitely dying, but it's also blown the board. I hope my CPU is OK.



Wow, ouch dude. 

Personally, I'd replace both at the same time, just in case. Still, even then, you got lucky. I had a PSU literally explode on me a few years back, and it fried every component in my system. From then on, I bought overkill.


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## Runefox (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm starting to wonder now whether or not my other parts are OK; I tried running my hard drives via a USB-to-IDE/SATA bridge and I've had no luck. I would be especially pissed if I lost my data, and even more so if I lose my Auzentech X-Fi Prelude and Radeon HD 4850.


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## ZentratheFox (Sep 27, 2009)

Runefox said:


> I'm starting to wonder now whether or not my other parts are OK; I tried running my hard drives via a USB-to-IDE/SATA bridge and I've had no luck. I would be especially pissed if I lost my data, and even more so if I lose my Auzentech X-Fi Prelude and Radeon HD 4850.



 Well, I wish you good luck. Am crossing my fingers...


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## ToeClaws (Sep 27, 2009)

I hope the other parts are okay - may have been something that started in the PSU that caused the demise of the board (seen that happen many times over the years).  Usually the voltage regulators are enough to buffer the CPU from any damage though.  Hope you can find a replacement okay.


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## Runefox (Sep 28, 2009)

Looks like my largest hard drive, containing my user profile and all my games, is OK, as is my other "storage" hard drive, which contained all my music and shows/movies (and all my Sega Saturn games and my web-facing directory and some other random data). So it's looking positive that the motherboard is all that's dead - Though I still need to test my video card and sound card.

I'm waiting on a reply from ASUS regarding an RMA on the board (3-year warranty), and then it'll probably be several weeks until I get my board back. I'll just have to tough it out and pull as much data as I can from my hard drives to my laptop.


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## lilEmber (Sep 29, 2009)

Well as long as it's little to no cost and you don't lose any data then time is the only problem. :3


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## Shino (Sep 29, 2009)

Ouch... looks like you got screwed... sorry, dude.

Umm... worst comes to worst, and you can confirm that the PSU fried everything, you may be able to force the PSU manufacturer to replace all the burnt out parts. Actually mananged to talk Antec into doing that once after their PSU fried the CPU, mobo, and AGP card, but that was a _long_ time ago.

Either way, I wish you luck. I'd send you my old AGP card if I thought it would help. ^_^


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## Lillica (Sep 29, 2009)

ZentratheFox said:


> To me all signs point to PSU. Then again, it could have also taken the mobo out with it.



I agree.


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## Runefox (Sep 29, 2009)

Shino said:


> Umm... worst comes to worst, and you can confirm that the PSU fried everything, you may be able to force the PSU manufacturer to replace all the burnt out parts. Actually mananged to talk Antec into doing that once after their PSU fried the CPU, mobo, and AGP card, but that was a _long_ time ago.


Ehh, this is SPI. I doubt they'd do anything like that, especially when the warranty's expired.



> Either way, I wish you luck. I'd send you my old AGP card if I thought it would help. ^_^


Ahh, well, I apreciate the thought, but my laptop can't really accommodate a video card. X3


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## yak (Sep 29, 2009)

Does the PSU fan show any resistance when you try to manually rotate it? Should be effortless.

By the looks of things it's a PSU issue. 
Most usually it starts with the fan on the thing getting clogged/dried and either stops or rotates slowly, which leads to overheating, which leads to capacitance change on, well, capacitors - which leads to all sorts of nasty under/usually overvoltage fluctuation on the rails, which in turn ends up frying either your mobo, or other PSU elements for trying to compensate.

If your PSU was either  better, or shittier you'd have never had it happen, or the PSU would have fried faster then your mobo. 

That is, of course, if my speculation is correct. But whatever it was, there is no logical reason to run pretty expensive hardware on a flaky power supply lest you are prepared for such things to happen.


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## Runefox (Sep 29, 2009)

yak said:


> Does the PSU fan show any resistance when you try to manually rotate it? Should be effortless.


Actually, I did - It _is_ effortless, there's no clog and it's not seized. It looks like the motor might have worn out. When I tried it in another PC, on powerup, the fan twitches a little, and sort of seems like it's trying to move, but even helping it along does nothing to keep it going. On a semi-related note, I could have sworn that during the night in question, I awoke to what I thought was the faint sound of a cell phone receiving a call on vibrate. I thought it was either a friend's who was staying over that night, or just another part of that hazy half-dreaming, half-awake thing. I think I might actually have been hearing that fan's motor burn out.



> That is, of course, if my speculation is correct. But whatever it was, there is no logical reason to run pretty expensive hardware on a flaky power supply lest you are prepared for such things to happen.


At the time, it was the best power supply I had access to (I couldn't order online, IIRC, for some reason, and nobody local had anything of consequence). I purchased it through my work (a local computer shop) and was fairly confident in the brand based on the specs and the generally low rates of failure we'd been getting.

At this point, I'm fairly well-convinced that I can't go middle of the road with a PSU unless I'm willing to replace a motherboard and power supply every year or so, and I think I'd like to take the opportunity to stress that it's the reason why I recommend the beefy power supplies I do when it comes to building computers. And yet, given what happened, my father (who found out via my status message) is still keenly supporting the idea of going out and buying a "700W" Retail+ power supply (he first suggested the "465W" model).

Frankly, I'm thinking of grabbing a PC Power & Cooling 750W or a Corsair (Seasonic) 750W, whichever I can afford when my motherboard gets back from RMA. It doesn't specifically have to be much greater than 550W, but I find the good 750's tend to have a good balance between price and features - And warranties. If the SPI still had a warranty, I could wave that in their faces, but nope.


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## ZentratheFox (Sep 29, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Frankly, I'm thinking of grabbing a PC Power & Cooling 750W or a Corsair (Seasonic) 750W, whichever I can afford when my motherboard gets back from RMA. It doesn't specifically have to be much greater than 550W, but I find the good 750's tend to have a good balance between price and features - And warranties.



Smart man. :3

PCP&C is better (even though I <3 my Corsairs, its just a fact), so if they're the same price, go for it!

G'luck with the RMA, too. Hope ASUS dosen't hesitate with the shipping. I know they went through a "we're not going to RMA anything" phase, but I believe it's past.


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## Runefox (Sep 29, 2009)

ZentratheFox said:


> G'luck with the RMA, too. Hope ASUS dosen't hesitate with the shipping. I know they went through a "we're not going to RMA anything" phase, but I believe it's past.


From what I've been reading, they've instated a beefed-up (no more than 5-days from date of arrival) RMA process in the EU/UK, so I'm _hoping_ they take it as seriously here in North America. I'm sort of bracing myself for a multi-week turnaround time anyway. Since I've got my most important data and ascertained that my storage drives are OK, I'm not terribly hurting any more.  Still unable to run anything of consequence on this laptop, though, and my screen resolution is capped to 1024x768 thanks to the 915GM, so everything's huge and nothing fits on-screen now.  I can barely imagine a time long ago when 1024x768 was considered a high resolution.

At least I have Frozen Bubble 2!


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## lilEmber (Sep 29, 2009)

And MGS4, you bastard.


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## Runefox (Sep 29, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> And MGS4, you bastard.


Nah, sold that long ago. It wasn't really worth keeping around to play through the story over and over again; Particularly wasn't very fun when you could blow through it with the Patriot and all the other fun stuff I'd unlocked (I basically creamed the game overall), and online play _sucks_, as you're well aware.

LET'S GO BOXING.


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## Runefox (Sep 29, 2009)

I figured I'd give a bit of an update, since it might be useful to others:

ASUS responded to my RMA request, and they've issued an RMA number. That RMA number is good for thirty days; Shipping to ASUS is my responsibility (they're not paying for it), and I'm to expect a 10-day turnaround upon date of arrival; After which they send it back via FedEx Ground. So if you're going to RMA an ASUS product in North America (or at least Canada), expect a bit over a two-week turnaround.


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