# Dragon mask help!



## Dachindae (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm working on a dragon partial suit for NDK this year. I'm just trying to figure out how to make the mask hard, but not made out of clay.
I'm planning on making the base out of wire and then covering it with foam. But I don't want the mask to be squishy, how can I make it hard? Is there a sealant or something that I can put on it to make it a little more durable?
And what kind of foam should I use? I have pretty big horns on the head, so it can't be too breakable. I'll reinforce them with wires, but I still don't want them to break.
OR Should I make a wire frame, put some screen all over it and then cover it with paper mache' and then paint it?

The whole mask is about 3ft long, including the horns in the back of the head.
Here is a sketch of it. http://i52.tinypic.com/154xcuh.jpg
The bottom jaw is approx. 22", 16" at the first eye. the top area is 3ft long, 16" at the first eye. It is in a stencil format because I was going to go get these printed, cut them out, and then use them as stencils to trace onto cardboard or something so I can keep it symmetrical. 
There are 4 eyes that I am going to make glow. The thing in front of the eye is a part of the skull, but I'm going to put mesh over it so I can see. I found a great glowing eyes tutorial that I can actually understand.
I don't have any colors set right now, but it will probably be black or some natural colors.

ALSO. Does anyone have an actual diagram of a moving jaw? I was thinking of just putting two washers together with a bolt through the jaws and then a small spring on the inside of the mouth and something under my chin so the mask will open when I talk. 

Anyone also know where I can order a mannequin head? I bought a styrofoam one at hobby lobby but it's stupid and has it's head tilted to the side and has a really fat face. I just need something cheap but more accurate than this thing xD

Quick and good replies will be rewarded with cookies and catnip


----------



## Blarmajin (Jun 28, 2011)

Avoid a wire base. Trust me, I've done that, it's not very nice. 

And, if you want something that's hard, light and durable to work with, your bets bet is to get into resin casting. Basically, the process involves for you to sculpt a mask out of a certain type of clay ( I will elaborate), then, make a mold from that clay base, THEN cast a resin copy from the mold. 

Some of the materials you'll need are: 

*NON -SULFUR clay! (VERY important.) Jolly king is a good brand. 

*Smooth on-Rebound 25  (Good brand of casting materials, easy to use, 'specially for a beginner.) 

*Thii-vex (Silicone thickener) 

*Plaster bandage

*Smooth on Smooth cast 300 (pourable Resin)

------


Qarrezel uses this method, she has a much more organized, three part tutorial here: 

http://qarrezel.deviantart.com/gallery/7080403#/d1p7axf


----------------------


Sugarpoultry also has some tutorials and videos of finished and base masks, too. 

http://www.youtube.com/user/sugarpoultry#p/c/26ED0115868B1C55

Be warned, though, this whole method is pretty pricey and frustrating if you go about it the wrong way, (Like I do, heh.) But if you do your research, it should be easy. 


Good luck!


----------



## Dachindae (Jun 28, 2011)

ahhhh.... the only problem with that is that I can't sculpt worth crap ^^; and I don't have a ton of money to work with, college budgets are killer.
Is wire really that hard to work with? o-o
I know that it's light and paper mache is pretty light once it's dry, I'm going for a lightweight thing so I don't get a headache from it. I was going to coat the inside of the mask with a soft fabric so my hair wouldn't get caught on the wire, but not so much fabric that it kills my ventilation. [I'm going to add a fan somewhere in the muzzle]

I now know how to make resin and glowing eyes and digitigrade legs thanks to some youtube videos and hours of scouring the internet. Some really nice tutorials out there when I look hard enough.


----------



## Blarmajin (Jun 28, 2011)

From my experience, thin, galvanized wire is very malleable. 

But, again, I wouldn't recommend it, it's not very wearable. Not to mention if a wire end pokes into the back of your head. Ouch. 


Resin is very light weight, actually. 

And, just be careful when looking up tutorials. There's plenty of bad tutorials out, especially on Youtube.


----------



## Dachindae (Jun 28, 2011)

Oh, I was going to tape/seal any of the wire parts that would have a possibility of sticking me on the inside. Sort of like a mask on the inside of the mask o3o
I've made a mask out of chicken wire before, and it worked pretty well. It was pretty sturdy after I covered it with paper mache. I kept it on by molding a bike helmet with the mache and then my dad fixed it to the mask xD It looked pretty ridiculous but it was 7th grade... 

I might try the casting thing if I can't get the wire to work. I'll just have to make my dragon asymmetrical with some scarring and broken horns on one side XD [is really bad about making sculpts symmetrical] 

Any idea what material I could make dreadlocks out of? I'm going to have dreads to cover my neck. 

This tutorial seems pretty amazing and pretty easy to me xD [a lot cheaper too...] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8bkxyFVQE
and how do you think she put the LED's in the eyes in this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=220g8kmBd-s  Did she drill a small hole in the side of the eye and stick the LED in there?
I'm going to make my own eye cast out of clay so I can get a custom shape instead of a really round eye.
I couldn't find a good tutorial for digitigrade legs, but I did find a picture that someone took of the construction of their digitigrade legs and it looks pretty awesome. Take a high-heeled boot, cut off the back heel and glue it to the front by the toes. Then you use fur and clothing to cover up the boot and make the creature toes out of wire/foam. You're basically walking on the balls of your feet all day, but it looks pretty cool. 

I'm going to get a casting kit and a lot of resin at the craft store in a few days, so I can keep all the teeth and claws uniform. Any type of resin that would be the best to get? 

Thank you for helping me so much, Blarmajin :3


----------



## Deo (Jun 28, 2011)

Well I've done a lot of casting before.

For something like this you'd want to either cast it in resin, or a harder latex. 

Since resin casting has already been addressed I'll discuss latex as a material. Now with latex the type of clay you sculpt with doesn't matter. What you need to do is make a lifecast of your face so that you sculpt the dragon features onto that so that your mask properly lines up with your jaw and eyes and so that it fits.

When you have the dragon sculpted cast it in plaster or gypsum. I just use plaster from the hardware store, a 50lb bad is like $20, which is nice. But if you want to cast many of these use gypsum. A plaster mold can start to chip and crack after long storage or long-time repeated use. Before putting the plaster on you should "paint" on some soapy water onto your sculpture. This just helps release it form the mold. Wait for that to dry, then start mixing plaster. The first coat should be sort of runny so that you can push it and blow it into the details of the sculpture without trapping air. Progressively use less water in your coats of plaster, applying a new coat after the last one has dried.

Let all the plaster dry for 24-36 hours. Then pull out the clay and scrub the mold clean gently with a toothbrush.

Casting the positive. Alright, I use Cementex Brand Liquid latex. I like it a lot. for something harder you'd add more #64 Filler. So a 5 gal container of L-200 latex mixed with 3.5-4 buckets of #64 filler should get you a hard, but slightly flexible and more comfortable form-fitting mask.

To paint latex you need to mix acrylic paint with latex and paint it on, or airbrush it with either acrylic paint or Createx Airbrush paints.

Example of a latex dragon mask I made using this method:





http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3766475/








Dachindae said:


> Oh, I was going to tape/seal any of the wire  parts that would have a possibility of sticking me on the inside. Sort  of like a mask on the inside of the mask o3o


TAPE IS *NEVER *A FURSUIT OR MASK MATERIAL. NEVER. YOU WILL SWEAT AND IT WILL FALL APART AND MILDEW.



Dachindae said:


> I've made a mask out of chicken wire  before, and it worked pretty well. It was pretty sturdy after I covered  it with paper mache.


THE SAME GOES FOR PAPER MACHE. NO NEVER.



Dachindae said:


> and  how do you think she put the LED's in the eyes in this video?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=220g8kmBd-s  Did she drill a  small hole in the side of the eye and stick the LED in there?


The LEDs were placed into the resin before it set when it was still a liquid. Drilling into resin would ruin it.



Dachindae said:


> I couldn't find a good tutorial for digitigrade  legs, but I did find a picture that someone took of the construction of  their digitigrade legs and it looks pretty awesome. Take a high-heeled  boot, cut off the back heel and glue it to the front by the toes. Then  you use fur and clothing to cover up the boot and make the creature toes  out of wire/foam. You're basically walking on the balls of your feet  all day, but it looks pretty cool.


Boots are uncomfortable. There are shit-tons of digitigrade tutorials.  Why have you not read the Stickies in this forum?  http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...S-AND-TUTORIALS-A-LIST-FOR-NEW-FURSUIT-MAKERS


----------



## Deo (Jun 28, 2011)

Dachindae said:


> Is wire really that hard to work with? o-o


 It's not so much hard to work with, as just not a proper material. You wouldn't build a house out of tinfoil and you shouldn't build a fursuit using wire. You have to think about yourself and your safety. People _ARE_ going to hit you in the face and the muzzle, what if a wire gouges out your eye? What then?


----------



## Dachindae (Jun 30, 2011)

*     My internet is retarded and went out just as I was about to post my reply x-x 



That is an AWESOME mask.
The sad thing is, I'm allergic to latex. Whenever I touch it my skin gets all puffy, itchy, and red. I'd love to use it though, but it would probably be a big problem if I had a huge mask of it over my face.
I'll be sure to keep paper mache and tape off of my list, and all of the other no-no materials listed in that sticky. 

Well, I was going to solder the wire together once I got the basic shape and then put plastic mesh over it. I'd put some hardening puddy of sorts on the areas that I solder so they won't come loose. I don't really know what else I can use for the basic shape that will keep its form and that I can work with...
  The wire also wonâ€™t be absolutely everywhere, just 3 pieces on the top jaw [center, left, and right side] and 2 pieces for the bottom jaw [right and left side] The horns will also have wire, but mostly for added stability so they donâ€™t sag anywhere. Before I put on any foam, Iâ€™m making the rest of the face with plastic mesh. 
I'm going to cover the inside of the mask too so my hair won't catch on anything.
  I found almost exactly what Iâ€™m trying to talk about xD http://www.abload.de/img/p4240111a9aj.jpg
  I kind of wish there was a picture of the earlier stages of this head here; the basic construction is almost perfect. xD

Can someone please tell me what kind of foam this is? http://www.matrices.net/fursuit/foamAkitatail.jpg I REALLY like how that looks and it looks easy to craft with. Could I use that to put onto my mask and then maybe paint over it? I might be getting an airbrush so I might be painting with that instead of acrylic, but I might end up using acrylic anyways.

I can't find any good dragon mask tutorials that don't involve casting the entire head. I love some of the fursuit ones, but I'm kind of stuck on what I would do after I cover the mask with foam since I'm not using fur or leather and I'm not sure what paint I can use on the foam that wonâ€™t chip or come offâ€¦ 

I found a really nice stilt digitigrade tutorial on youtube yesterday and my dad is going to help me make them this weekend/next week. Consists of a shoe, bungee cords, wood, screws, and foam and the guy in the video was walking around without any problem. I'm pretty short so I want to be up a few extra inches so I don't bash everyone in the face with my mask. I'm also going to put things over the ends of the horns or make the horns more rounded at the end so I don't stab anyone by accident.

  I need to mold all 40 teeth and all 20 hand/foot claws by myself, what is the best material [cheapish] that I could make them out of? Some type of oven-bake clay would work the best for me. Iâ€™d probably put a piece of wire in each tooth/claw to give it some added stability. Iâ€™m not going to keep them all 100% uniform because that would include castingâ€¦ which would be a little expensive. I might use a cast for the large canine teeth though. 



Thank you for being patient with me, this is my first suit XD;
I'm a visual learner and I need photos as well as text explaining what someone did to do something. [this is why video tutorials work best for me xD;]

I'm trying to get all the materials listed so I can go out and price stuff and then get working on the head construction.


----------



## Deo (Jun 30, 2011)

Okay no latex.
No wire either. Seriously, is it worth it if you lose an eye? Think on that.

That foam in Matrices tutorial is open cell furniture foam, it comes in green, white, grey, and sometimes blue. Carve it with scissors. You cannot paint over foam. You can coat foam in latex and paint that, but you can't since you are allergic. No painting foam.


NO STILTS.
NO NO NO. I'm going to bet the stilt tutorial you found is Gryphern's, amybe Monoyasha's. Monoyasha and I traded ideas when we both built stilts together and as a result I own a pair that we designed based off of Gryphern's tutorial and improvements done from the SPFX artists of the Underworld movies (I even got to look at the mechanics of a pair of Underworld stilts owned by Llamatron to see how everything worked). My stilts have added comfort padding, stabilizers, extra straps for distributing weight, and were well balanced. To say the least my stilts are built in the best possible way for someone without the budget of a large scale movie production, and built with knowledge unavailable to most people.
_*
They still suck. *_Stilts are cumbersome, clumsy (give up on stairs forever), hard to pack or transport, heavy, and the muscle work to keep you upright heats your body up more. In effect stilts are a miserable experience, especially if your eyesight is inhibited at all. I have excellent vision in my suit, and I mean EXCELLENT, but on stilts it's still a thousand times more difficult not to trip or bump into someone. They are also painful if worn for long periods of time. You make a costume and you want to show it off and wear it, like at cons. If you have stilts give that idea up. You get a _max_ of 4 hours. And if you go for more like 5, heck even 4, you'll be limping for the rest of the weekend and won't even be able to _look_ at your stilts let along pop them back on for a fursuit jaunt. Seriously DO NOT MAKE STILTS.

To prove to you I know what the fuck I am talking about, and so that you'll maybe listen to me, here is my suit with it's stilts.


----------



## Deo (Jun 30, 2011)

Dachindae said:


> Thank you for being patient with me, this is my first suit XD;
> I'm a visual learner and I need photos as well as text explaining what someone did to do something. [this is why video tutorials work best for me xD;


 There is a shitton of good tutorials I hand picked myself in the stickied thread, I do not see any valid reason why you have not read it yet. >:[*
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...S-AND-TUTORIALS-A-LIST-FOR-NEW-FURSUIT-MAKERS*


----------



## Dachindae (Jul 2, 2011)

I think Iâ€™m still going to do the stilts, BUT Iâ€™m going to make an extra pair of feet so if my legs do get tired, I can change into those. There are several elevators at the convention and the whole gathering is only on one floor, so I really donâ€™t have to worry about stairs. There are plenty of places to sit down and rest too. 
   Plus, my dad was really looking forward to building these with me and I donâ€™t want to brush him off. Thereâ€™s not really much he can help me with the rest of the suit, so I donâ€™t want to disappoint him. Iâ€™d just feel really bad if I cut him out of the construction.

   I am reading several of the tutorials. Itâ€™s just that all of them include fur, and Iâ€™m not sure what to do past that point since Iâ€™m not using fur and I donâ€™t know what other fabric I can use.
   What kind of fabric should I use for a â€œdragon skinâ€ look? Iâ€™m going to buy an airbrush and airbrush my creatureâ€™s markings onto it. 

   Iâ€™m going to be going off of this tutorial since I like it a lot. http://www.fursuit.de/cms/index.php/En:Fursuit_building
   Iâ€™m going to go off a few others for the basic construction as well. Thereâ€™s one on youtube that I really like. Most are made by this chick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbRuuoLFB1o


   Iâ€™ve got a list of materials so far, what else should I probably add?

   Materials list:
   Eyes
               -Resin
               -LED setup

   Head-
               -Plastic mesh
               -Wire [only for the jaws]
               -FIMO for the teeth [claws too]

               -Foam
               -Electric knife
               -Some sort of â€˜dragonskinâ€™ fabric.
               -Fan
               -Bolts/washer [for moving jaw]

   Misc. Supplies-
               -Airbrush
               -Hot glue gun
               -Scissors
               -Furniture foam
               -Craft foam


 Anyone have any idea where I can get a GOOD styrofoam head that isn't all lop-sided like hobby lobby's?


----------

