# .



## Rusty_Raccoon (Apr 28, 2019)

.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

It's called context and common sense. But pretending these symbols aren't being used in this matter is a denialism that is just as counterproductive as blanket throwing out anything the alt right tries to appropriate. Nobody is saying put out the milk except those trying to build strawman arguments to attack the left.  Being cognizant that these symbols are being used as hate symbols and of the context of those using them to gaslight or actively defending the far right is only wise. 

Approaching their use with skepticism is the best approach, especially when emphasis is placed on the symbol in order to bring attention to it. Amd especially if the user has expressed far right leaning views. If someone uses "ok" to non verbally communicate that they arevin fact ok, I won't question it. But if someone throws an "ok" in their video after having previously supported the great replacement myth and white supremacy, that shit gets my attention. *cough*JohnTron*cough*

The question to ask when seeing such a symbol is "Is this being used in a way to promote hateful ideas or by useful idiots to create a gaslighting effect." 

The question to ask when using something that has been so appropriated is; "To what degree the symbol is affiliated to such hate, and does my usage of it avoid invoking its more questionable meanings." And to not deny the facts of its usage as a hate symbol in doing so, but to admit you are attempting to reclaim the symbol.

Part of the problem is that those who try to use the symbols in question are often those who try to conceal and misinform on the questionable origins or checkered past of these symbols in order to sow misinformation and doubt to cause people to question the veracity of factually accurate information; and prime them to accept factually incorrect information through cognitive dissonance. 

If a usage of a symbol is questioned moderately but met with false information and aggressive pushback, that is a red flag that the person using it is at best a useful idiot actively trying to perpetuate gaslighting for their own ammusement, because they have been convinced this is just "friendly" trolling.


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## Infrarednexus (Apr 28, 2019)

I'm scared of clowns. I don't trust them. I say we ban them all


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Apr 28, 2019)

Infrarednexus said:


> I'm scared of clowns. I don't trust them. I say we ban them all


Agreed.
-banning everyone-


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## Fallowfox (Apr 28, 2019)

I think this will be a complete shit show and that we should have been grateful that a moderator stopped the initial discussion. :\


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Apr 28, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> I think this will be a complete shit show and that we should have been grateful that a moderator stopped the initial discussion. :\


Don't worry, this time I'll derail this thread before it can derail itself


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Did you just use the c word? I'll have you know that is a slur and that you are a morally inferior person for using a word that offends me.

I don't care that you use that word to your friends all the time, you're evil.

2Woke4U


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## Ramjet (Apr 28, 2019)

Infrarednexus said:


> I'm scared of clowns. I don't trust them. I say we ban them all


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## Infrarednexus (Apr 28, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


>


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 28, 2019)

Do any sneaky furs want to put this to the test? I'll bet if  you infiltrated the right internet communities, you could turn anything (say, diapers) into a "racist meme" and have half the Internet throwing a hissyfit over any image containing it within a month.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

Infrarednexus said:


> I'm scared of clowns. I don't trust them. I say we ban them all


Mood tho
Listened to IT as an audiobook as a younger Teen. Big mistake.


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Apr 28, 2019)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Do any sneaky furs want to put this to the test? I'll bet if  you inflitrated the right internet communities, you could turn anything (say, diapers) into a "racist meme" and have half the Internet throwing a hissyfit over any image containing it within a month.


brb, currently turning Party Parrots into a racist meme


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2019)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Do any sneaky furs want to put this to the test? I'll bet if  you infiltrated the right internet communities, you could turn anything (say, diapers) into a "racist meme" and have half the Internet throwing a hissyfit over any image containing it within a month.


That is what 4chan did to begin with. First milk, then the OK hand sign. Next, babies and eating bread without gluten?


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## Infrarednexus (Apr 28, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


> brb, currently turning Party Parrots into a racist meme


Don't you dare!


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


> brb, currently turning Party Parrots into a racist meme


I knew it, a secret call sign to the alt right! I know this because I obsessively document this minority of douchebags on the internet every step they go.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Do any sneaky furs want to put this to the test? I'll bet if  you infiltrated the right internet communities, you could turn anything (say, diapers) into a "racist meme" and have half the Internet throwing a hissyfit over any image containing it within a month.


Not likely, because these communities tend to be wary of "normies". Now a troll did convince the far right that Antifa was going to stage a revolution one of these past Novembers, which was a chuckle. Some of them still think it was only cancelled because of the weather.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2019)

Speaking of babies, milk and ok handsign..

theoutline.com: The OK sign is becoming an alt-right symbol
www.washingtontimes.com: Milk: The new symbol of racism in Donald Trump’s America
time.com: Your Baby is a Racist—and You Don't Necessarily Have to Sweat that Fact
trendingviews.co: Professor Claims It's Racist For White People To Have Babies

Self-driving cars are racist?
www.thedrive.com: Racist Self-Driving Cars Concerns Are (Well-Intentioned) Clickbait

Note: I haven't checked the credibility of any of these sources, but it's fun to see all this stupidity going around.

You can Google almost anything and it will have someone claiming it's racist at this point.


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## Sirocco~ (Apr 28, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


> brb, currently turning Party Parrots into a racist meme


You will never succeed in vilifying me >:V


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> I knew it, a secret call sign to the alt right! I know this because I obsessively document this minority of douchebags on the internet every step they go.


Fucking stalker. :V


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


> Don't worry, this time I'll derail this thread before it can derail itself


Destroying threads is ok, I have political correctness on my side.


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## Massan Otter (Apr 28, 2019)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Do any sneaky furs want to put this to the test? I'll bet if  you infiltrated the right internet communities, you could turn anything (say, diapers) into a "racist meme" and have half the Internet throwing a hissyfit over any image containing it within a month.



Just ask any babyfur, most of the Internet already reacts pretty much like that anyway...


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2019)

Honk honk. Underwater. :3


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## Attaman (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Did you just use the c word? I'll have you know that is a slur and that you are a morally inferior person for using a word that offends me.
> 
> I don't care that you use that word to your friends all the time, you're evil.
> 
> 2Woke4U


I’m going to be real with you doc: If your response to people saying “Try not to use this phrase it’s a slur and there’s even been a major push in [relevant academic field] to phase it out” is to throw a tantrum, tell that person to go away and never come back, then ramble the equivalent of “OMG did you assume my gender?! #Triggered!”, you... aren’t exactly showing the side of yourself you think you are. 

As for the OP / thread discussion, what I said in the locked thread still applies: Context is key. And when you see people who advocated for Holocaust denial, or teaching Mein Kampf-tier “The Jews are the reason for society’s flaws” in schools as a _free speech right, _openly mocked the idea that black lives have even an iota of worth, or even “The unite the right murderer was actually acting in self-defense” bullshit... coming out of the woodworks claiming “lol we totally trolled u this is an attempt to take it back from the white supremacist groups (that some of us have admitted to participating in channels with)”, I am not convinced that they have noble goals in mind.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Attaman said:


> I’m going to be real with you doc: If your response to people saying “Try not to use this phrase it’s a slur and there’s even been a major push in [relevant academic field] to phase it out” is to throw a tantrum, tell that person to go away and never come back, then ramble the equivalent of “OMG did you assume my gender?! #Triggered!”, you... aren’t exactly showing the side of yourself you think you are.
> 
> As for the OP / thread discussion, what I said in the locked thread still applies: Context is key. And when you see people who advocated for Holocaust denial, or teaching Mein Kampf-tier “The Jews are the reason for society’s flaws” in schools as a _free speech right, _openly mocked the idea that black lives have even an iota of worth, or even “The unite the right murderer was actually acting in self-defense” bullshit... coming out of the woodworks claiming “lol we totally trolled u this is an attempt to take it back from the white supremacist groups (that some of us have admitted to participating in channels with)”, I am not convinced that they have noble goals in mind.



My response was, if the forum does not like my using the slur, that is fine. My issue was, he seemed to also want me to change how I act in rl to my friends over how I choose to speak to them. That's when I have an issue. Because I have no issue changing my decorum on the forum, I do have an issue for flipping out on me over a how I choose to speak to my friends. It's not yours or any of his business anyways.
Speaking of context, maybe you should (again) read my replies. Do I think it's silly the a and r word can't be used on the forums? Sure, but I don't have an issue abiding by it.

Asking me to change my decorum for the forum is fine, asking me to change the way I talk to those close to me and shaming me for it? Pretty damn stupid.

If you're  going to put your two cents in, at least make the effort to be accurate.


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## WolfyAmbassador (Apr 28, 2019)

This detergent company is offensive to people with Down Syndrome, I think it should be banned.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2019)

WolfyAmbassador said:


> This detergent company is offensive to people with Down Syndrome, I think it should be banned.
> 
> View attachment 60648


Dafuq?


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## Pipistrele (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> My response was, if the forum does not like my using the slur, that is fine. My issue was, he seemed to also want me to change how I act in rl to my friends over how I choose to speak to them. That's when I have an issue. Because I have no issue changing my decorum on the forum, I do have an issue for flipping out on me over a how I choose to speak to my friends. It's not yours or any of his business anyways.
> Speaking of context, maybe you should (again) read my replies. Do I think it's silly the a and r word can't be used on the forums? Sure, but I don't have an issue abiding by it.
> 
> Asking me to change my decorum for the forum is fine, asking me to change the way I talk to those close to me and shaming me for it? Pretty damn stupid.
> ...


As much as I get your point, I think you're being overly confrontational for petty reasons a lot of the time. There's no better way to destroy your point than being an edgelord about it.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> As much as I get your point, I think you're being overly confrontational for petty reasons a lot of the time.


All I wanted to do on my thread was talk about the Lecia ad and China. Instead it got twisted into clown world shit. I think I at least have some reason to be vexed with the situation.

On top of that, I got a load of moral judgments thrown at me because I defended Ramjet's use of the meme clown world.


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## CrookedCroc (Apr 28, 2019)

Do you guys remember that Dexter's lab episode where Dexter gets bitten by a clown and then turns into one? 
Imagine having your body and mind get corrupted like that without being able to do anything about it.


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## Pipistrele (Apr 28, 2019)

WolfyAmbassador said:


> This detergent company is offensive to people with Down Syndrome, I think it should be banned.
> 
> View attachment 60648


eh, not really. Downy detergent was never used to insult or berate people, and honker memes are used exclusively for that.
(I know you're being facitious, but I just enjoy giving serious answers to random dokie jokies)


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Apr 28, 2019)

Infrarednexus said:


> Don't you dare!


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## Pipistrele (Apr 28, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> Do you guys remember that Dexter's lab episode where Dexter gets bitten by a clown and then turns into one?
> Imagine having your body and mind get corrupted like that without being able to do anything about it.


kinda scary, if you ask me 



KimberVaile said:


> All I wanted to do on my thread was talk about the Lecia ad and China. Instead it got twisted into clown world shit. I think I at least have some reason to be vexed with the situation.
> 
> On top of that, I got a load of moral judgments thrown at me because I defended Ramjet's use of the meme clown world.


To be fair, one of the reasons thread was twisted into clown world crap is because you started a fight over it, prolonging the clown conversation instead of deflating it.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


>


We need a Macarena parrot.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> kinda scary, if you ask me
> 
> 
> To be fair, one of the reasons thread was twisted into clown world crap is because you started a fight over it, prolonging the clown conversation instead of deflating it.



Look at the thread, I ignored the initial comment by Fallow. I only jumped in once the clown world shit had been going on for two pages, because it escalated very quickly and people were calling each other a load of unflattering things over it. Are you saying I should have waited longer, or?


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## CrookedCroc (Apr 28, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> kinda scary, if you ask me


If you think that's scary you should see the short "Malcolm and Melvin"
Early Cartoon Network was fucking wild


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Apr 28, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> deflating it.


I see what you did there.




Source


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## ManicTherapsid (Apr 28, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> If you think that's scary you should see the short "Malcolm and Melvin"
> Early Cartoon Network was fucking wild



Anything Ralph Bakshi does is pretty nuts. Ever see Wizards?


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## CrookedCroc (Apr 28, 2019)

LordChestnut said:


> Anything Ralph Bakshi does is pretty nuts. Ever see Wizards?


No but after googling it I'm definitely gonna add it to my watch list


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 28, 2019)

Rusty_Raccoon said:


> If the alt right keeps using originally non racist symbols in racist contexts eventually turning some of their meaning racist, than what would we do to combat that, cause if we just stop using the symbol they use cause it's being used in racist contexts now, isn't that us giving them alot of power cause then wouldn't they be able to turn literally anything else racist?



.....wow.  And here I was thinking I might have been the only one concerned that backing off of these symbols is giving these supremacists power.  I see the "back off the term entirely" mentality with a fair amount of (as far as I can tell) left-leaning dialogue and it didn't strike me as surrender until later - and because it strikes me as surrender, it always irks me.




Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> It's called context and common sense.



....I've got one further example for that one and I might as well put it here because I'm concerned about the collateral damage these supremacists (I'd rather use this term instead of "racists" when possible to keep the focus on the power grab) can bring by using any given thing as a code to spread their ideology.

It has to do with the OK sign - I was reviewing my sign language and that is AWFULLY close to both the number 9 and the letter F, and that's just from the sign language *I* remember.  There's bound to be more.

I initially had another example for the clown thing but the one I had in mind seems too esoteric for a supremacist to actually use in a racist manner.

My concern is what to do when you accidentally get someone that DOESN'T know the contexts like these.  Especially if they jump to screaming in your ear.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (Apr 28, 2019)

This thread is getting out of hand, what's happening?


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## Doodle Bunny (Apr 28, 2019)

The clowns are coming! HONK HONK HONK!!!


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## Cendrag Roseheart (Apr 28, 2019)

K


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> Especially if they jump to screaming in your ear.



add to that, rampant moral judgment and blaming YOU (the op) for any backlash for their god awful decorum. All cause you don't have the same views as them.

Could you imagine how much trouble it would have saved if somebody pmed me about the clown world stuff instead of derailing the thread?


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## Massan Otter (Apr 28, 2019)

Rusty_Raccoon said:


> If the alt right keeps using originally non racist symbols in racist contexts eventually turning some of their meaning racist, than what would we do to combat that, cause if we just stop using the symbol they use cause it's being used in racist contexts now, isn't that us giving them alot of power cause then wouldn't they be able to turn literally anything else racist?



That would imply that the people using those symbols were already habitually doing so before the alt right (or whatever you want to call them) misappropriated them.  But what we see more often is an explosion of particular symbols or memes _after _that crowd have popularised their use.  
So we're not seeing people carrying on regardless, we're seeing people uncritically parroting the language and imagery of some deeply hateful groups.  While I understand the argument that supporting free speech means that you accept that people are free to do this, it should also be fine to question motivations and criticise.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 28, 2019)

@KimberVaile you fully know that I recognised coded speech in your post that I'd seen creepy racists using, and that I commented because I was concerned that it indicated somebody was grooming you on the internet. 

.-. I don't know why you're choosing to represent this as people being hysterically offended over the fact you mentioned clowns at all, because that wasn't ever the case- and you know it wasn't. 

You know that I asked you to do the same for me if I ever indicated that somebody was messing inside my  own head.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> @KimberVaile you fully know that I recognised coded speech in your post that I'd seen creepy racists using, and that I commented because I was concerned that it indicated somebody was grooming you on the internet.
> 
> .-. I don't know why you're choosing to represent this as people being hysterically offended over the fact you mentioned clowns at all, because that wasn't ever the case- and you know it wasn't.
> 
> You know that I asked you to do the same for me if I ever indicated that somebody was messing inside my  own head.



Not in your case, no. But in case of others? Yes. I still would have preferred a pm regardless, because the thread totally became about the clown world meme.

The discussion I wanted to have crumbled because others considered the clown world meme higher priority than what I wanted to discuss. My issue lies with others, not you.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 28, 2019)

*facepalm*

....and as soon as I try to ask for serious advice on countering the overreaction, someone hijacks my question and twists it into a guilt trip.

Some days I wonder why I bother reaching out of my own innocent bubble.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> ....and as soon as I try to ask for serious advice on countering the overreaction, someone hijacks my question and twists it into a guilt trip.
> 
> Some days I wonder why I bother reaching out of my own innocent bubble.



Nobody was guilt tripping you, I was agreeing with your point.

You're fine, sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

I was mostly talking about how people reacted to me in my last thread, the exact thing you described happened to me in addition to the things I listed.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Not in your case, no. But in case of others? Yes. I still would have preferred a pm regardless, because the thread totally became about the clown world meme.
> 
> The discussion I wanted to have crumbled because others considered the clown world meme higher priority than what I wanted to discuss.



For what it's worth I don't think anybody on the forum could possibly have disagreed with your opinion of China's censorship of past massacres.

You've told me you like to give people the benefit of the doubt and think the best of their motivations, so please try to extend that philosophy to the other people you're mocking at the moment. At the moment I feel you are deliberately inferring the worst.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Nobody was guilt tripping you, I was agreeing with your point.
> 
> You're fine.



Not quite what I meant.  I recognize your agreement in your original response, especially on rereading it again, but one of the follow-up comments in said response felt like it was being used as a guilt trip against someone else when I saw how it played out.

*shrug* Not going to press that one further than that, though.  We've got that covered.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> For what it's worth I don't think anybody on the forum could possibly have disagreed with your opinion of China's censorship of past massacres.
> 
> You've told me you like to give people the benefit of the doubt and think the best of their motivations, so please try to extend that philosophy to the other people you're mocking at the moment. At the moment I feel you are deliberately inferring the worst.



The point was to have a discussion about the subject, it's not as simple as everybody just agreeing with me. It's a discussion in which I encouraged people to add their own takes on the issue.
I saw first hand how people acted on my thread, just a bunch of moral attacks and name calling, and I can't deny what happened right in front of me. Figures that when I finally step in, people decry it as the worst thing that ever happened.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> ....and as soon as I try to ask for serious advice on countering the overreaction, someone hijacks my question and twists it into a guilt trip.
> 
> Some days I wonder why I bother reaching out of my own innocent bubble.


If people overreact to a harmless to the "OK" symbol or "9" explain the context, and if they are still being stupid ignore them. But you should acknowledge the negative context it can be used in does exist. 



Fallowfox said:


> @KimberVaile you fully know that I recognised coded speech in your post that I'd seen creepy racists using, and that I commented because I was concerned that it indicated somebody was grooming you on the internet.
> 
> .-. I don't know why you're choosing to represent this as people being hysterically offended over the fact you mentioned clowns at all, because that wasn't ever the case- and you know it wasn't.
> 
> You know that I asked you to do the same for me if I ever indicated that somebody was messing inside my  own head.


He's salty at me, so don't take his vitriol in this thread personally.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> Not quite what I meant.  I recognize your agreement in your original response, especially on rereading it again, but one of the follow-up comments in said response felt like it was being used as a guilt trip against someone else when I saw how it played out.
> 
> *shrug* Not going to press that one further than that, though.  We've got that covered.



No, the follow up comment was purely about trying to keep the thread stable, it got derailed over the clown world stuff. I'm not sure how you can ever really construe that as a 'guilt trip' but you do you.

I'm not sure what sort of logic you're going on.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> If people overreact to a harmless to the "OK" symbol or "9" explain the context, and if they are still being stupid ignore them. But you should acknowledge the negative context it can be used in does exist.
> 
> 
> He's salty at me, so don't take his vitriol in this thread personally.



You weren't alone in derailing the thread, but you certainly played a big part, especially with all your petty political battles and attacks towards Ramjet. You were by far the most vitriolic in that thread, no contest.

How dare somebody think differently than you!


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> No, the follow up comment was purely about trying to keep the thread stable, it got derailed over the clown world stuff. I'm not sure how you can ever really construe that as a 'guilt trip' but you do you.
> 
> I'm not sure what sort of your logic you're going on.



...there might have been something out of context I'd been thinking about at the time.  I'd honestly like to drop it and next time I read quite a bit more carefully.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> ...there might have been something out of context I'd been thinking about at the time.  I'd honestly like to drop it and next time I read quite a bit more carefully.



I would appreciate if you read the thread before making those claims again, yes.


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## quoting_mungo (Apr 28, 2019)

Not specifically about clown world memes, but about language and imagery associated with bigotry in general, I think a good principle to keep in mind is to try to be aware of who else uses the rhetoric you're using, and to exercise some caution/common sense in how and where you employ it with that in mind. Like... I'm sure there are people who completely sincerely and honestly say <insert dogwhistle that interpreted literally isn't super problematic here> out there. And it sucks for them that their sincere opinions will be interpreted as code for white supremacy, but if they are aware of it, they will be able to take steps to mitigate those conclusions. If there's no pressing reason to use the dogwhistle-ey language, it may be a good idea to find alternative ways to express your position in the interest of avoiding misunderstandings.

Basically, the important thing is to try to make your decisions to disseminate content, especially things like memes where you're passing on an image without alteration, be informed decisions. Uncritically passing on what you see, or passing on content you know is problematic for one reason or another just to demonstrate that you are above caring about other people's sensibilities, is a good way to potentially make yourself look like an ass.



FrostyTheDragon said:


> It has to do with the OK sign - I was reviewing my sign language and that is AWFULLY close to both the number 9 and the letter F, and that's just from the sign language *I* remember. There's bound to be more.


"Speaking in sign language" is pretty strong context, though. It's like... "fan" is a swear word in Swedish, but no Swede is going to think you're trying to get away with swearing if you have a conversation in English about fans.


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## CertifiedCervine (Apr 28, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> Not specifically about clown world memes, but about language and imagery associated with bigotry in general, I think a good principle to keep in mind is to try to be aware of who else uses the rhetoric you're using, and to exercise some caution/common sense in how and where you employ it with that in mind. Like... I'm sure there are people who completely sincerely and honestly say <insert dogwhistle that interpreted literally isn't super problematic here> out there. And it sucks for them that their sincere opinions will be interpreted as code for white supremacy, but if they are aware of it, they will be able to take steps to mitigate those conclusions. If there's no pressing reason to use the dogwhistle-ey language, it may be a good idea to find alternative ways to express your position in the interest of avoiding misunderstandings.
> 
> Basically, the important thing is to try to make your decisions to disseminate content, especially things like memes where you're passing on an image without alteration, be informed decisions. Uncritically passing on what you see, or passing on content you know is problematic for one reason or another just to demonstrate that you are above caring about other people's sensibilities, is a good way to potentially make yourself look like an ass.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification, your posts are well written. 
Though i’m still a tad confused. Is “clown world” referring to using clowns in general? Or a meme in a bad context?


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

TacomaTheDeer said:


> Thanks for the clarification, your posts are well written.
> Though i’m still a tad confused. Is “clown world” referring to using clowns in general? Or a meme in a bad context?



If you go by urban dictionary, it is " A phrase used to describe the current state of affairs in regards to the world (usually socially or politically). The word is employed as to state that something is ridiculous or nonsensical, in a way, "only could this be real, in a world run by clowns (clown world)"'.

The fact that it is bad practice to use it just makes me wonder how many other memes are 'politically loaded'.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> If you go by urban dictionary, it is " A phrase used to describe the current state of affairs in regards to the world (usually socially or politically). The word is employed as to state that something is ridiculous or nonsensical, in a way, "only could this be real, in a world run by clowns (clown world)"'.
> 
> The fact that it is bad practice to use it just makes me wonder how many other memes are 'politically loaded'.


Urban Dictionary is notoriously bad, and is vulnerable to edits like wikipedia.

Clown world originated back in 2017 from the chan-o-sphere, and mixed nihilism and bigotry by emphasising negative acts committed by poc as examples of the absurd. It was disseminated in the usual manner of things that start with a questionable core meaning but are recircled by useful idiots outside of that context in order to cause chaos.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Urban Dictionary is notoriously bad, and is vulnerable to edits like wikipedia.
> 
> Clown world originated back in 2017 from the chan-o-sphere, and mixed nihilism and bigotry by emphasising negative acts committed by poc as examples of the absurd.



Didn't the more bigoted use of Clown World start about 3 months ago? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


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## Ramjet (Apr 28, 2019)

There's been racists variations of literally every pepe meme that exists, this one is no different.

This is what happens...

Bad alt-right actors on /pol/ get their hands on a meme and spin a narrative that they know the extreme left will be more then happy to take as bait...

The extreme left feeds that fire by giving the exact reaction that was meant to be extracted from them...

Wash rinse repeat.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Didn't the more bigoted use of Clown World start about 3 months ago? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


The first clown world article on the Daily Stormer is april 2017.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> The first clown world article on the Daily Stormer is april 2017.


And would you care to drop a link?


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> And would you care to drop a link?


I already did in the other thread, and would like to minimize how many links to the Daily Stormer I post for obvious reasons.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I already did in the other thread, and would like to minimize how many links to the Daily Stormer I post for obvious reasons.


So Daily Stormer is bad, is what I am getting from this. Which by connotation, makes clown world bad, if I am understanding your perspective.

Anyways, if you let me know what thread that is in, I'd appreciate it.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> So Daily Stormer is bad, is what I am getting from this. Which by connotation, makes clown world bad, if I am understanding your perspective.
> 
> Anyways, if you let me know what thread that is in, I'd appreciate it.


That would be in the one this argument started, on Chinese Censorship.

And the Stormer is an overt NeoNazi publication.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> That would be in the one this argument started, on Chinese Censorship.
> 
> And the Stormer is an overt NeoNazi publication.



I have looked over the thread for 

forums.furaffinity.net: Lecia ad featuring the Tiananmen Square censored in China

These are the links you posted:

www.google.com: The Measure of Hate on 4Chan – Rolling Stone

I searched through all the pages, and that was the only link you posted yourself.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 28, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> There's been racists variations of literally every pepe meme that exists, this one is no different.
> 
> This is what happens...
> 
> ...


The 2020 election will just be a contest between Tumblr and 4chan to see who can spew the most ridiculous shit.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> I have looked over the thread for
> 
> forums.furaffinity.net: Lecia ad featuring the Tiananmen Square censored in China
> 
> ...


It's in a spoiler for obvious reasons.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> It's in a spoiler for obvious reasons.



Can you please give me the reply number then?

I've searched the thread again and could not find any spoiler aside from the one in your signature. If I just had a link or reply number or something to go on, it would help alot.


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## Anon Raccoon (Apr 28, 2019)

*honk


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Can you please give me the reply number then?
> 
> I've searched the thread again and could not find any spoiler aside from the one in your signature. If I just had a link or reply number or something to go on, it would help alot.


Can't find it amidst the shit. Here's a screen of the site. 


Spoiler: Racist Bullshit










My bad, that was Febuary 2017. 

I'm really tired and trying to disengage from this.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Can't find it amidst the shit. Here's a screen of the site.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Racist Bullshit
> ...



I was able to find the article, but the video has since been deleted, which seemed to be the main source of the content. So, there is some missing information here.


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## PercyD (Apr 29, 2019)

My question is this-
Who decided that clowns are an acceptable form of entertainment for children?


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## Yakamaru (Apr 29, 2019)

PercyD said:


> My question is this-
> Who decided that clowns are an acceptable form of entertainment for children?


I mean, just look at this charmi-


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## KimberVaile (Apr 29, 2019)

They all flooooooooat down here.

And YOU'LL FLOAT TOO!


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## PercyD (Apr 29, 2019)

Yakamaru said:


> I mean, just look at this charmi-


*Launches the *Nope rocket**


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## GarthTheWereWolf (Apr 29, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> Do you guys remember that Dexter's lab episode where Dexter gets bitten by a clown and then turns into one?
> Imagine having your body and mind get corrupted like that without being able to do anything about it.



They turned that episode of Dexter into a horror movie actually... <:


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## Peach's (Apr 30, 2019)

If nazis want to dress up like literal clowns, I say that's shows a lot about their mode of thinking and what they are.


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## Angelcakes (Apr 30, 2019)

Peebes said:


> If nazis want to dress up like literal clowns, I say that's shows a lot about their mode of thinking and what they are.



I mean, honestly? It just makes them an easier target.


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## foussiremix (May 2, 2019)

I always knew clowns are evil.

These colourful funky thots always scared me.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 2, 2019)

foussiremix said:


> I always knew clowns are evil.
> 
> These colourful funky *thots* always scared me.


Is that a typo? Because it is amusing regardless.


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## modfox (May 2, 2019)

when it was released or something and there were clowns scaring people apparently. some time 2017


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (May 3, 2019)

Rusty_Raccoon said:


> I'm gonna move that whole clown debate shit that's going on in that one thread into it's own seperate thing here and I'm gonna start off with the question I proposed:
> 
> If the alt right keeps using originally non racist symbols in racist contexts eventually turning some of their meaning racist, than what would we do to combat that, cause if we just stop using the symbol they use cause it's being used in racist contexts now, isn't that us giving them alot of power cause then wouldn't they be able to turn literally anything else racist?


You mean, like the Nazi's appropriation of an ancient Eurasia symbol, the 'Swastika'?
No, government(s)/groups never steal someone else's symbology to suit their own means.

Not sure what you meant by the 'Alt. Right', however?  Specify.


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (May 3, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


> Agreed.
> -banning everyone-


Never wears make-up, is safe...
:: Cavorts around the pasture kicking-up mah heels... ::


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (May 3, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


>


Hairspray is *FLAMMABLE*
An' I ain't afraid to deploy eet!


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (May 3, 2019)

LordChestnut said:


> Anything Ralph Bakshi does is pretty nuts. Ever see Wizards?


I have, AND I owns da DVD, too! (along wif the 'Heavy Metal' animation movies)...
I are an Old Horse...


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