# Hypotheticals.



## CBee (Jan 16, 2006)

The furry community seems to flee from places that disallow adult material. Since you now have a site specific to the fanbase, if FA were to follow DA and SA in restricting content, would you leave in search of another place?

Just a thought.


----------



## nobuyuki (Jan 16, 2006)

I would, because really, my only reasons for being on FA are to 1. promote artplz and 2. scope out artists who are taking root on FA instead.  I hope I won't have to keep coming back here when AP opens but that's unrealistic considering the amount of people who just don't care where they're at as long as it's either where their "friends" are at or is giving them teh pr0ns.

my two cents

edit:  I suppose when the time comes I'll have to write a program to tell me when my DA/SA/FA message centers need emptying  :roll:


----------



## Pico (Jan 16, 2006)

Well, it is my understanding that the initial userbase of FA was mostly from the anti-Sheezy crowd, so I'd assume that most of 'em would leave, seeking their pornography elsewhere.  FA users are much, MUCH different from Yerf users (believe me, I've hung around both forums for enough time to know this~), so honestly I can't imagine a lot of them staying, especially since most FA artists, from what I've seen, have at least a couple of mature or adult pieces in their gallery.  Personally, I wouldn't leave, but I probably wouldn't upload as much knowing that about 2 people would continue looking at my art at that point, lols.


----------



## wut (Jan 16, 2006)

FA without 90% dong content isn't FA at all.


----------



## Litre (Jan 16, 2006)

wut said:
			
		

> FA without 90% dong content isn't FA at all.



= 90% of users leaving


----------



## Grave (Jan 16, 2006)

I only bother with FA or art communties in general these days because i am bored, nothing else to do really...

But yeah id probably leave too.

Not out of spite but it would be pointless to stay when ay think about it...

I mean lets see, 90% of my "art" is adult orientated anyways, and most of the people i watch only draw adult-themed stuff as well.

Its not really a case of just being here for the porn. Fuck if i wanted just porn id just go to VCL or F-chan everyday.

I like the freedom there is on FA despite all the bugs and lack of communication between admins to actually FIX shit. And well, every other art community has been full of assholes who just want to run everything for you and tell you what you should and shouldnt draw.

Fa doesnt inflict such types of opressive behaviour upon its members. And i hope they stick to whatever morals they have and dont sell out and become "family friendly" (ahem)

Hell...to be honest i think if they couldnt allow pr0n anymore theyd probably just completly take the site down since thered be no point what so ever for them to remain. Its called FUR affinity for a reason. And that reason is to appeal to the "furry community". 

Considering that the "furry (art) community" is 90% porn, if FA were to disallow porn, they would probably experiance a migration of artists only comparable to that of the mass migration of evey species of bird on the planet flying south for the winter!


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 16, 2006)

Heh. Dare I say well written, Grave?

Well, aside from that last part with the "90%" quote. Probably closer 15% in terms of content, but a much higher (unknown) percentage of adults who look at adult-rated material of whatever type.


No probs with the poll, even if it is hypothetical. 
My answer would be "yes", too, and many of us know what it feels like to be let down by a community imposing a non-adult regime at very short notice without either consulting with the userbase or looking into viable (relatively easy) solutions.


----------



## Xax (Jan 16, 2006)

I'm not here for the porn, I'm here for the _community_.

yeah

u no it


----------



## Grave (Jan 16, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> I'm not here for the porn, I'm here for the _community_.
> 
> yeah
> 
> u no it



Wrong.

Dude..re-read the post. I said im here cos im bored for the most part. If all i wanted was porn...there are better places to get it as i stated...sheesh


----------



## Xax (Jan 16, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Xax said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, I... hadn't even read your post.

I could post a rebuttal though if you'd like!


----------



## Grave (Jan 16, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh..thought you was talking to me...my bad.

Whats a rebuttal? Sorry to ask such a stupid question but i didnt have the chance of that luxury you normal folk call an "education"


----------



## Xax (Jan 17, 2006)

You can feel free to read it as "start an argument" in this context.


----------



## Midnightdragon22 (Jan 17, 2006)

The only reasons I'm here is because DA and a couple of others wont allow my Adult-oriented art...and that while I'm here, I like looking at everyone else's Adult art. No porn allowed...no reason for me to be here.
Honestly, I'd hate to have to leave. I love the art and the people are very friendly.


----------



## Khor (Jan 17, 2006)

It's not really about seeing the pron, it's the fact that here in contrast to DA, we're all free to be who we are, draw what we want, and be accepted in spite of how weird we all are.  I really enjoy it here, and banning adult work would really feel like being stabbed in the back.


----------



## Grave (Jan 17, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> You can feel free to read it as "start an argument" in this context.



So just a formal way of saying you'll start some sheeet then


----------



## Arcturus (Jan 17, 2006)

Sheets are for beds, not forums.


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 17, 2006)

Heh, heh... Did curiosity get the better of me, to look back at the previous page? 

*purrs* to all... 

=

Oh, btw, some of us dun get a chance to get to bed... eh, Arc?


----------



## Almafeta (Jan 17, 2006)

No, because then my only alternative would be ArtPlz, and I can't go there because I don't support copyright violation.


----------



## CBee (Jan 17, 2006)

OT : To date, ArtPlz has not violated anyones copyright.


----------



## Grave (Jan 17, 2006)

Almafeta said:
			
		

> No, because then my only alternative would be ArtPlz, and I can't go there because I don't support copyright violation.



Oooh, copyright violation? What has been done?


----------



## nobuyuki (Jan 17, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Fa doesnt inflict such types of opressive behaviour upon its members. And i hope they stick to whatever morals they have and dont sell out and become "family friendly" (ahem)



You forgot the 8horns incident.  Also poland



			
				Alfameta said:
			
		

> No, because then my only alternative would be ArtPlz, and I can't go there because I don't support copyright violation.



Do not listen to the man making the above quote.  The subject in question has a tendancy to make correlations between unrelated facts, a (sadly common in this community) fallacy of logic.  The last part of the statement is also false, if nothing else.  ArtPlz never violated anybody's copyrights.


----------



## wut (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm in ur archive
violating ur copyrights


----------



## Grave (Jan 17, 2006)

nobuyuki said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



8horns incident and poland? What you going on about?
And who is violating what copyrights?


----------



## cpctail (Jan 17, 2006)

Not sure if I would or wouldn't leave.  Probably depends on why the mature stuff had to be removed.  And if the admins were truthful about it, unlike a certain other site >.>.  Chances are I'd probably stay and wait to see if another artsite becomes availble aside from FA.  I won't join AP because I'm against the immature creature there who enjoys the hacking and whining.


----------



## Grave (Jan 17, 2006)

cpctail said:
			
		

> Not sure if I would or wouldn't leave.  Probably depends on why the mature stuff had to be removed.  And if the admins were truthful about it, unlike a certain other site >.>.  Chances are I'd probably stay and wait to see if another artsite becomes availble aside from FA.  I won't join AP because I'm against the immature creature there who enjoys the hacking and whining.



Yeah, he's one of the main reasons i wont join it when it comes up probably...if ever.

I dunno i will have to see.


----------



## dave hyena (Jan 17, 2006)

Pico said:
			
		

> FA users are much, MUCH different from Yerf users



And let us praise the heavens above for that. 



			
				nobuyuki said:
			
		

> I would, because really, my only reasons for being on FA are to 1. promote artplz...  I hope I won't have to keep coming back here when AP opens



Oy, making such statements and indulging in such behaviour only hurts Artplz & Sheezyart, even this threads original post itself rather reeks of a rather superior and condescending attitude. 

It's the image it projects and the word of mouth thereof I'm talking about here, not the "he said, she said" stuff. 

When people see things like that, they’re going to associate the Artplz et al name with peanut throwers who are always there with negative comments when things go wrong, but never there to help. :-/ 

In this thread alone, three people have said that they would not use Artplz. 

That's a definite sign that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. 

Thing is, this site is a community, It's building up here. 

People who have galleries, who have watch lists and favourites (hundreds of favourites or uploads even) et al have an investment in this site. They’re part of it, not to mention part of the furry fandom at large. 

Naturally, when you attack this site or indulge in LOL FURRIES! posts, people can feel like you’re attacking them personally because you’re attacking something they’re involved (perhaps heavily) in and have a stake thereof. 

You're a representative of your site here: think before you post. 

If I was someone at artplz or sheezy, I’d issue guidelines for the actions of it’s representatives on other sites and ask people who potentially damage it’s name through naughtiness, to consider their positions or disassociate myself from them.


----------



## Grave (Jan 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Pico said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heh, well said.


----------



## Xax (Jan 17, 2006)

The 8horns incident, by the way, was when 8horns had his accont totally obliterated (I think on the database level, but I'm not sure) without warning because of the kind of art (read: porn) he posted.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 17, 2006)

Almafeta said:
			
		

> No, because then my only alternative would be ArtPlz, and I can't go there because I don't support copyright violation.



What does your sentence MEAAAAAAAAAAAAAN? *confused here*


----------



## Grave (Jan 17, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> The 8horns incident, by the way, was when 8horns had his accont totally obliterated (I think on the database level, but I'm not sure) without warning because of the kind of art (read: porn) he posted.



Oh yes, back on Sheezy? Yeah i remember now. That and his art depicted underage characters or something...


----------



## Darkmark (Jan 17, 2006)

I'd probably leave, not for "OMG TRAITORZ", but more along the lines of I have enough freaking art server accounts as it is. It's just that FA is the only one that allows porn AND has an actual comment system.


----------



## Xax (Jan 18, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Oh yes, back on Sheezy? Yeah i remember now. That and his art depicted underage characters or something...



No, no, this was on FA.

Hence the irony in the "FA doesn't oppress the users" statement.

I thin he just got banned from Sheezy, but I really don't remember.


----------



## Kitteh (Jan 18, 2006)

i'd probably lose interest in fa, as the main reason i love it so is that it's the only interactive art community aimed at furries that allows adult art. i enjoy drawing furrypr0nz and meeting people who appreciate said hobby, heh.


----------



## dave hyena (Jan 18, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> What does your sentence MEAAAAAAAAAAAAAN? *confused here*



He’s referring to Arcturus and the infamous chanplz I believe. 

The F-chan-a-like, which actively encouraged people to post art there without the artist’s permission and boasted of how it would have no DNP list et al.

Even when it was shut down after an enormous hoo haa, it was done with bad grace, with much blame and finger pointing at mysterious enemies. 

Now, I have no interest in the “he said, she said” aspect of this.

But, one cannot deny that it was an utter PR disasters and shit all over the good name of artplz.

And it just doesn’t matter whether you indulge in finger pointing or not, it’s about peoples perception of the issue, and their general perception is that chanplz was about violating copyright and garnering attention for Arcturus. 

When people think of artplz, they’re going to think of chanplz, and at one stroke! a large swathe of potential userbase has been alienated.


----------



## Grave (Jan 18, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Deserves them right then.


----------



## Grave (Jan 18, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh...really? On FA? hmm..must of been because he always drew tiny toon characters and dot warner stuff. Which by definition, is classed as an underage character (tiny toons are in pre-school after all) So thats in the TOS not to post art like that so its his own fault if he cant abide by the rules, not FA's.

Unless something else happened that was totally non art and TOS related that caused him to get kicked that i dont know about, of course?


----------



## cpctail (Jan 18, 2006)

> (tiny toons are in pre-school after all)



Umm no their not   I don't know what their age range's are, but it's a bit older than pre-school


----------



## Pico (Jan 18, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Pico said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah because Yerf and all its users are evil and VERY MEAN.  Gosh I hate them!!!!  They won't let me RP as my 18 breasted dragon herm on their message board, sigh :*((((((((


----------



## Grave (Jan 18, 2006)

cpctail said:
			
		

> > (tiny toons are in pre-school after all)
> 
> 
> 
> Umm no their not   I don't know what their age range's are, but it's a bit older than pre-school



They are supposed to be kids, 4rth or 5th grade really....still younglins in any case...


----------



## wut (Jan 18, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Xax said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There was no rule in place in the TOS about the age of drawn characters being an issue.

Try again.


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 18, 2006)

wut said:
			
		

> There was no rule in place in the TOS about the age of drawn characters being an issue.
> 
> Try again.


There was no rule in place about light irony (for which Strider picked up a temp ban) or adult art posted prior to the cut off date (for which Sitar, Thaily and various others picked up temp bans).

How does this relate to the current thread, anyhow?


----------



## Grave (Jan 18, 2006)

wut said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, there was. There always has been. That rule in the TOS was commen-place even in the sheezydays i beleive...unless my memory serves me wrong again...


----------



## dave hyena (Jan 18, 2006)

Pico said:
			
		

> Yeah because Yerf and all its users are evil and VERY MEAN.



If by “mean” & "evil" you mean “right wing fundamentalist crazies”, then yes, they are indeed mean and evil.

Not that *all* of it's users & staff are such, but you know.  :roll:


----------



## Dragoneer (Jan 18, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Actually, there was. There always has been. That rule in the TOS was commen-place even in the sheezydays i beleive...unless my memory serves me wrong again...


The TOS is overdo for a revision, and... it looks like I'll be getting onto that later. I'd planned to draw, but I never get to do that anymore lately. =(


----------



## Litre (Jan 18, 2006)

I like how people jumped at AP in this thread where there is NO EFFING MENTION OF IT AT ALL.

Get back on topic, jesus.

and yes, any more reason to leave is fine by me. Goodness what kind of fr-..people are here :/


----------



## Dragoneer (Jan 18, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> I like how people jumped at AP in this thread where there is NO EFFING MENTION OF IT AT ALL.
> 
> Get back on topic, jesus.
> 
> and yes, any more reason to leave is fine by me. Goodness what kind of fr-..people are here :/


There are people like that on every site. So, if you want to leave... go for it. Nobody's holding you here. =/ Although, I admit I'd prefer if people stayed... but I'm a realist. Retention can be a difficult process.


----------



## Vorotaev (Jan 18, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> I like how people jumped at AP in this thread where there is NO EFFING MENTION OF IT AT ALL.


To play Devil's Advocate, nobuyuki made passing reference to it early on the first page. Whether or not that was the reason it was later commented on in the thread is apocryphal at best, though it was quoted by at least one other person commenting on ArtPlz.

On topic: yeah, I probably would. There are other art sites out there, and while having an (mostly?) exclusively furry one is kind of neat, that in itself wouldn't likely be enough to keep me coming back.


----------



## Grave (Jan 18, 2006)

Vorotaev said:
			
		

> Litre said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What happened was Nubo' plugged Artplz, then someone else commented on how they wouldnt join AP because they dont support copyright violations, which a couple of peeps didnt understand what exactly that ment (myself included), and its all come from there really.


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 18, 2006)

Vorotaev said:
			
		

> Litre said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup; and agreed with Grave, above.
All in context and on-topic for the discussion, it would seem.

The initial question was "if FA were to follow DA and SA in restricting content, would you leave in search of another place?".
The very first reply was an (understandable) AP plug and later posts pondered the dilemma that despite there being very, very few communities to (hypothetically) leave to were all adult material banned here (not going to happen), they would still have personal qualms at making AP their destination for the reasons expounded (since they weren't clear to all).

_(enough brackets for one reply, I trust?)_


----------



## Xax (Jan 18, 2006)

You can never have enough parentheticals.


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 18, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> You can never have enough parentheticals.


_((((((I think you missed something there, Xax)))))_


----------



## kitetsu (Jan 19, 2006)

I didn't vote. I'd say "i wouldn't vote", but i just -can't- vote.


----------



## Midnightdragon22 (Jan 19, 2006)

Back to the original topic...on my home RP forum, alot of us have FA accounts..and two of them on there are dissing yiff artists. One even has "yiffers are like mad dogs and their owners." beside their FA avatar.
Why are these guys even here?
I gave them both hell on my home forum, btw.


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 19, 2006)

_*eyes up the huge, somewhat irritated dragon*_

*chuckles*. Go easy, Midnight! 
Remember you're an ambassador for the good name of this community, too... 

> One even has "yiffers are like mad dogs and their owners." beside their FA avatar

Darn; haven't seen that one!

> Why are these guys even here?

To look at non-adult works from a wide and growing range of artists?
(And if you find any such adult material creeping into their own +favs list, it's probably better to grin broadly rather than chastise!)


----------



## Mr Cullen (Jan 20, 2006)

I would probably find some people's over-reactions to it, so hillarious I'd stay.


----------



## vashdragon (Jan 20, 2006)

While itd still be nice due to it being Furry focused, id have no real use for it.  As most of my art tends to be adult anyways.

Id probly leave to a place that does allow adult art.  But if no such place would exist, id stay on FA due to it being furry.  Unlike DA, SA, and such.  And y-gallery doesnt like my 4 legged dragons.


----------



## Mr Cullen (Jan 23, 2006)

What makes me laugh, is that people complain about not being able to post adult artwork, then.... when they do find a place to upload it, they complain that they can't get any privacy because people keep harassing them, but they still want feedback. Doesn't ANYONE know how to make their own website these days?


----------



## Lloxie (Jan 23, 2006)

Simply put: probably so. I sincerely hope with ounce of my being FA doesn't make the dumb decision to disallow adult material. Just keep the rating system in place and make sure people can avoid adult material if they so choose, and I see no problem. It iritates me to no end when people complain about it, when they can easily avoid it by going to their settings, and telling it to block all adult art. "OHONZ, PR0NZ! WE HAVE TO GIT RID OF IT B4 IT RUINS OUR GUD NAME!!!1one" I'm sick of that. I really hope FA doesn't get rid of it. I'd be extremely dissappointed if it did. <o.o>


----------



## Dragoneer (Jan 23, 2006)

Lloxie said:
			
		

> Simply put: probably so. I sincerely hope with ounce of my being FA doesn't make the dumb decision to disallow adult material.


It's not going to happen, so don't worry. The schmutt is safe.


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Jan 23, 2006)

It depends on the situation. 

Relating this to a similar incident, I was unhappy with SA and their decision to disallow it because it was in their hosting TOS to begin with. I felt disappointed in the fact the site was against their TOS from the start and it was either an oversight or a purposeful violation. I would probably slow down or stop posting here if that was the case.

I may have my facts wrong, but that's based on what I've read.


----------



## uncia2000 (Jan 23, 2006)

_(for reference, only, in the context of this thread)_


			
				ArrowTibbs said:
			
		

> It depends on the situation.
> 
> Relating this to a similar incident, I was unhappy with SA and their decision to disallow it because it was in their hosting TOS to begin with. I felt disappointed in the fact the site was against their TOS from the start and it was either an oversight or a purposeful violation. I would probably slow down or stop posting here if that was the case.
> 
> I may have my facts wrong, but that's based on what I've read.


Possibly more complex...
Their host appeared to permit adult sites, although their pay-per-click advertising service did not permit itself to be used on such.
See http://www.sheezyart.com/journal/52259/ ; first post, plus reply from Tiggress, near the foot.

Never heard back that we'd gotten our facts wrong on that, anyhow.


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Jan 24, 2006)

Ohhh...That changes a lot of things then. Everyone said that their TOS said no adult work, and I never knew where to actually find the TOS myself so I took their word for it. That'll teach me


----------



## Azure Ocelot (Feb 3, 2006)

I disbelieve in censorship on principal.  Even if I had a problem with adult material-- and everyone who knows me knows I'm quite the opposite-- I would hate to exclude it from people who enjoy it.  As long as we have the proper warnings and all, because otherwise the site could get in trouble, as in the case of others I've seen.  Down with cens0rsh1p!  Up with dong!


----------

