# Transgender Children's Book



## CupOfChamomile (Jun 14, 2018)

this was for a school project ! It's a bit rushed as I only had 5 days to start and finish it, if I had had more time I would have added more pages and more detail. It was written in a way that would make it easier for children to understand, that is why the definition isn't super detailed and such. The style (especially the muzzles) isn't as consistent as I would have liked, but I didn't have time to go back and fix it before submitting sadly. I hope you enjoy it!


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## PlusThirtyOne (Jun 15, 2018)

The illustrations are really cute and the message is well meaning but at the risk of sounding insensitive, the whole thing feels WAY over-simplified. Given a little more time, you could have a real charming kid's book on your hands paws. The painterly style really got my attention. it really feels like a story book i'd find in a child's book collection. My only criticism would be that the writing feels too simple for a topic as complex, even for a children's book. What was the class assignment specifically? Writing? illustration? if you want to expand on what you've started here, the story could use a little more embellishment on the classroom setting, character interaction and touch up the narrative by adding a (minor) conflict or take the easy way out and re-write the story in poetry form.
in short, what you have here looks _excellent_! it looks (and reads to some extent) like a fully fledged story book (while missing a few torn-out pages).


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## CupOfChamomile (Jun 15, 2018)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> The illustrations are really cute and the message is well meaning but at the risk of sounding insensitive, the whole thing feels WAY over-simplified. Given a little more time, you could have a real charming kid's book on your hands paws. The painterly style really got my attention. it really feels like a story book i'd find in a child's book collection. My only criticism would be that the writing feels too simple for a topic as complex, even for a children's book. What was the class assignment specifically? Writing? illustration? if you want to expand on what you've started here, the story could use a little more embellishment on the classroom setting, character interaction and touch up the narrative by adding a (minor) conflict or take the easy way out and re-write the story in poetry form.
> in short, what you have here looks _excellent_! it looks (and reads to some extent) like a fully fledged story book (while missing a few torn-out pages).


Thank you for the feedback! Yes, that was what my disclaimer at the top was mainly for, as if I had more time I would have worked to make it far less simplified. The assignment was focused around creating an illustration (term was used loosely for the assignment, it could have been art, a video talking about the subject, etc. ) about a current issue that directly affected you. I chose to make mine about transgender issues, as I am transgender myself. You also had to direct it to an audience you don't normally write for, which is why it is a children's book.
If I was to write it again I would definitely have a better explanation and not simplify so heavily. With more pages I could give a better explanation and fix the issues this draft has. The small conflict is a great idea, I would definitely add that if I ever decide to remake this. Thank you for taking the time to write this feedback, it really helps!


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## Ciderfine (Jun 15, 2018)

Yeah NO, Im really not down with the idea that people are using a mental health disorder as an excuse to change one gender and seek (really force) acceptance on people by making propaganda works like this to target children with.

Now ill give you this, you can draw well but need to look at the picture here. I don't think you realized you are aiding the volitile aspects of the left by having children learn about this when its really just an illness. I know I know, your all probably screaming saying "cider you monster, how could you." to "you nazi transphobe!" etc etc. But frankly all the trans people I know are very very sick. Their mental health is much worse then anyone else I know state wise and that's dangerous. They always want to off theselves, surgical this, hormone that. Really it comes down to people wanting to be something they arent and taking steroids and cutting up their genitals. Sorry but that's it.

We cant redefine gender to "biology got it wrong and Ive always been this gender" in your head. Now I used to be a flaming volatile LQATBAI 500 genders person, I was brainwashed into thinking trans people where god like. They aren't, most of them are cruel aggressive, or just really really mentally sick. Teaching children "this person isnt this gender" is not okay. We already see the trans movement went from mental illness becoming an identity to sexualizing kids and forcing you to call them this or that. That's not an identity, that's unchecked mental illness. 

I worry for the trans people I know, hire and talk to because of how sick they are. Wanting to end their lives, constant medical to psychiatric help or idolizing suicide. But the 2 genders that exist are NOT the same or interchangeable for any reason. Males and females are not the same, and you cant change your identity just like that. Its not normal, while this cute artwork its spreading a dangerous message, and teaching children the wrong things.

This is not okay.


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## Rant (Jun 15, 2018)

Ignore the haters, you did well considering you only had a few days to put this together. Polish it up and maybe you can publish it!


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## Some Moron (Jun 15, 2018)

That's some cute artwork ya' got there.


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## CupOfChamomile (Jun 15, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Yeah NO, Im really not down with the idea that people are using a mental health disorder as an excuse to change one gender and seek (really force) acceptance on people by making propaganda works like this to target children with.
> 
> Now ill give you this, you can draw well but need to look at the picture here. I don't think you realized you are aiding the volitile aspects of the left by having children learn about this when its really just an illness. I know I know, your all probably screaming saying "cider you monster, how could you." to "you nazi transphobe!" etc etc. But frankly all the trans people I know are very very sick. Their mental health is much worse then anyone else I know state wise and that's dangerous. They always want to off theselves, surgical this, hormone that. Really it comes down to people wanting to be something they arent and taking steroids and cutting up their genitals. Sorry but that's it.
> 
> ...


hello, first, thank you for not screaming or immediately throwing threats. While we disagree heavily, you are making an effort to be slightly polite.
I am transgender. Being transgender is not a mental illness, just as being gay is not a mental illness. The LGBT community has all been considered "mentally ill" at one point in time, because people do not like us.
I spent most of my life trying to force myself to be a Lesbian. I was depressed, suicidal, I felt like shit all the time and I hated everything about myself. I was forcing myself to be something I was not, and it made my life miserable.
I have been identifying as a transman for multiple years now, though not completely openly due to the stigma people such as yourself hold. I have felt happier, more confident, and am no longer suicidal. My significant other is nonbinary. We support and love each other. Our lives have both been so much better since coming out to each other and helping each other. I love my friends, family, pets, etc. I am fine with not medically transitioning, because I am prioritizing college expenses.
I don't appreciate you coming over to my art, that was inspired by the children's books teaching children that it is okay to be gay, and claiming that because I identify differently than how I was born means that I am cruel and aggressive. I am a human being, I just want to be treated like a human being.
You use so much of the same reasons that homophobes used against gay people. "sexualizing kids" "it's a mental disorder" "it's not natural" "they are sick". All of these have been used against both homosexual and transgender people, and in all cases they are false. If my book is so wrong and sick, why aren't these books wrong, sick, and horrible? 
I could go on about how your point on biology is incorrect. You ignore how intersex people clearly exist outside the xx or xy binary of human genetics. You ignore the clear science that goes against your claims. I would give you a list of cool resources to check out about all these, but most likely you will just ignore them, and honestly I don't feel like doing extra work for someone who doesn't even want it.
Gay rights was completely built upon the back of transwomen at stonewall taking a stand against police brutality. Pride parade wouldn't exist without stonewall, and stonewall wouldn't have happened without transwomen standing up for themselves.  I am guessing you don't know gay history, so here you can read about transwomen's role in stonewall. Before you claim this isn't a good source, this source is directly given from my humanities class (along with multiple others regarding stonewall).
Thank you,
A tired transman who just wants to be treated like a human being.


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## PlusThirtyOne (Jun 16, 2018)

CupOfChamomile said:


> The small conflict is a great idea, I would definitely add that if I ever decide to remake this. Thank you for taking the time to write this feedback, it really helps!



if you decide to move forward with the project and expand on it a little, i'd expand on _character_ specifics instead of trans-sentric topics. Show that the trans child is (otherwise) completely normal; show that it doesn't matter what toys you play with. He may like the same toys as the other kids by showing a common affinity for "masculine" action figures among both genders of kids. Show that she likes to play dress up just like the other kids; some dress up like lady doctors, some male nurses. Show some girls playing with trucks and construction toys, show boys playing in a make-believe kitchen. Show some girls getting dirty in the grass and some boys shying away from the mud. Maybe take a page or two to talk about clothing; boys and girls who wear overalls, slacks, and maybe a boy who fancies a hair tie. *Showing the similarities between both genders, not differences*. -just a thought.

You did well to outline a message in your little book, but with such a touchy subject as this, it's unfortunately too easy to be lumped together with...well...  Case in point :



Ciderfine said:


> Im really not down with the idea that people are using a mental health disorder as an excuse to change one gender and seek (really force) acceptance on people by making *propaganda works like this to target children* with.



Wait, what? "Propaganda"?? in what way?

i don't see this as "propaganda", even in its _loosest_ form. Whether you (in general) think of trans issues as a mental health issue or not, making light of the issue is like making fun of someone for wearing glasses. if someone, regardless of age, is having an identity problem of ANY kind, how is punishing them for having the issue going to make things better? You wouldn't fault a person for looking different by wearing glasses if their vision is bad. You wouldn't dig at a child who's missing a leg for wearing prosthetic. i agree with you that if a book aimed at kids _told_ them to change their sex, lop off their junk or transition at the drop of a hat, there'd be cause for alarm. But this? This is not that kind of book.

Unfortunately that kind of trash does exist but this isn't it.

*i respectfully disagree*. Boiling complex issues down to "propaganda" doesn't help anyone and doesn't solve any issues. You don't have sexual identity issues? That's great! -But others DO and _it needs to be discussed with children_. -Properly! Of all the shitty books and damaging material i've seen, this particular book is probably the least offensive or preachy. There's clearly a discussion to be had (but not here), a conflict to overcome (on the whole) and ideas to be hashed out. -But taking aim at a project as innocent (and actually quite neutral) as this?



Ciderfine said:


> This is *not okay*.


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## Fiorabeast (Jun 16, 2018)

Honestly I love the illustration and the story, though I do agree with everyone else that about expanding a bit more would be nice since books like these are VERY needed for trans kids! And since you are trans yourself, I think that is a VERY big plus too because we need a lot more creatives like you. 

Also, @Cinderfine WTF propaganda?! I'm sorry but you DO realize that there ARE trans kids that are going through this crap, and someone like YOU is the cause for them getting depressed and suicidal (like what the OP just told us)? To the point that we lose a LOT of unique people because we want them in some god damn limited gender box. So I disagree, since I believe educating children, ESPECIALLY if they are questioning their identity, with OP's story like this is needed. Because surprise! Kids are smart, and it's us ADULTS that are limiting them!

So, thank you for showing your transphobia here because now I can add YOU to my block list of people I don't want to interact with!


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I see the T fell of the LGB. You owe the start of the gay rights movement to Transgendered Folk.
> 
> The current nuerological research shows that the brains of transgendered individuals are structured more towards their identity than what matches their genitals. Scans also show that very few people have strictly male or female structures, but typically have a majority of one or the other, matching their bits. In the case of trans people, the opposite is true.
> 
> Most importantly, go fuck a cactus.



While that may be true you have to look at one main aspect is that people assume its not a mental illness, and an identity. I sadly don't agree that someone who injects hormones into their body to gain an upper hand in shape, form and muscle mass and body flow  when they aren't naturally that gender. Its really steroid use if you think about it, that trans folks can hormone injections in things like Olympics and sports and not be punished by law...something is wrong here.

What you said really doesn't make any sense, while people say the "scan is true" for brain EEG scans, the whole of "opposite is true" is really the lie that's throw out to normalize and ignore the fact that 40-50% of trans people are suicidal/attempt it. There is something seriously wrong with someone who thinks they are another gender they weren't born as and have a suicide rate higher than any other group in the country.

People treat this as an identity when really...mental illness isnt an identity, its a pathological issue in people and they shouldn't be given privileged and laws dictating what people do or say based on what they are. Now in real psychology and irl experiences and science, the trans folks I know are unstable, very much so. While they still are people, they are sick people, saying that "opposites are true" does not apply to real biology. We cant use opposite day or militant LGBTQAI600+ gender studies to scream "your wrong" and "go fuck a cactus" because really that destroys your entire argument when I've said nothing vile, offensive or wrong here.

Sorry I don't consider the gay rights movement to be founded by a trans person because as of right now the Pride movement has become completely brainwashed, and focused on supremacy, sex, partying and depredation. It has lost its original roots and purpose to todays insane culture that protects its militant ways. Its lost its soul. So No I don't feel that a trans person started a movement, they started hell. A vile group of sexual outcasts that once won and demanded "tolerance" and "love" quickly spawned drug addiction and the AIDS epidemic that tore America up and killed their own people. That says a lot. Its turned from AIDS, sex addicts, drugs to "kill all cis white people". Sorry thats not a movement, thats a threat.

If people want to wonder why others don't treat them the same it, its because of facts, reality and how they act (the "go fuck a cactus" thing really isn't any conversation or debate but just militant LGBTQAI500+genders thing a violent leftist swj would say.) That being said, if you cant offer anything to a conversation other then "we are right, scans show this, fuck you" then there isnt any conversation. Your just another antifa thug.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

CupOfChamomile said:


> hello, first, thank you for not screaming or immediately throwing threats. While we disagree heavily, you are making an effort to be slightly polite.
> I am transgender. Being transgender is not a mental illness, just as being gay is not a mental illness. The LGBT community has all been considered "mentally ill" at one point in time, because people do not like us.
> I spent most of my life trying to force myself to be a Lesbian. I was depressed, suicidal, I felt like shit all the time and I hated everything about myself. I was forcing myself to be something I was not, and it made my life miserable.
> I have been identifying as a transman for multiple years now, though not completely openly due to the stigma people such as yourself hold. I have felt happier, more confident, and am no longer suicidal. My significant other is nonbinary. We support and love each other. Our lives have both been so much better since coming out to each other and helping each other. I love my friends, family, pets, etc. I am fine with not medically transitioning, because I am prioritizing college expenses.
> ...



Of course I am to be civil, I'm not like these militant swj leftists who call me every name in the book. I prefer logic, common sense and basic respect even if we disagree on this. Now I dont hate trans folk, I know a lot of em In my life and they are pretty cool people but they have major mental health issues. And while you say you dont I cannot ignore the fact that all the trans folsk I know need serious medial, medication and psychological help around the clock. It isnt because they are bullied, hell NY is the biggest Leftist pro gay bisex etc etc state there is. I just dont think it adds up when people just tell me its due to "bullying" or hate crimes when life wise they are loved and accepted by their families by still try and want to end their lives.

Now I can come to some terms with agreeing with actual queer people in the past being called mentally ill, because thats how society works. Social norms and behavoirs dictate how others treat one another. And because such a small percentage of the population didnt act, look or behave right. Now their treatment back then was...extremely disturbing and a basic violation of rights.

However queer folk are not normal folk. We homosexuals cannot natural have children due to our sexual attraction, we function differently, we cannot raise healthy normal families, and while we are living, breathing people, we are different people. This can apply to bisexuals too but thats where it ends. There's really only 3 sexuality in my eyes, the issue with the LGBTQAI in the past was it was an identity that trumped everything else, rather then just a a sliver of who and what they are.  And while I agree a trans black women did start the movement, it really was a violent, sexually disturbing movement that lead to the AIDS and std crisis, deviant sexual behavior and drug addictions because frankly...the movement was just about acceptance...and that meant tolerating what ever people did.

I don't consider the movement to be even stable or logical at this point, it went from the riots, to the AIDS crisis to the complete destruction and creation of creepy, sexual culture.  What was a movement quickly became something that lead to their own peoples daily destruction. I've ran into tons of "Kill the breeders" to "kill all white cis males" when I escaped the Left. Whats sad is that a majority of the trans folks I ran into where very hostile, and destructive when I realize what they scream and want is just supremacy, control and immunity from the rest of the world.

Now I am very grateful we are having a real civil conversation, this proves a lot of the militant left to not be as wide spread and cancerous as many think it is.  But really I am using the same "homophobic" stances because as of now, the entire majority of the most hateful, predatory and vile poeple have been other queer folk. Queer folk are a danger and since they have been lead so astray in my country they have turned into what they are now: Mentally unstable sexual deviants. There is enough proof, and my irl proof of how violent and dangerous they are. If queer folk want to be respected they need to go to the roots of professionalism then just what they identity as for their only and entire existence. Going around in leather chaps or thongs and looking like alice in wonderland porno characters is not how you gain respect in society, at all. Let alone the groups in CA sexualizing kids and turning them into trans sex icons, saying things that hormone blockers are reversible. Sorry but I've seen enough shit that screams mentally unstable faction for the queer community and frankly it needs to be destroyed, rebuilt into something more stable, respectful and calm. 

Now, you claim the intersex topic, a common distraction when really its a biological amorality and a incorrect condition.  People like to use the intersex to "you dont know anything about biology" when I do. I was a med student, seen it all, studied it all and you cannot change your gender just because you feel its wrong. Sorry but that's not how reality, biology, and facts work.  I don't take kindly to the "I dont feel like doing extra work to prove you wrong, because you wont listen" really makes you sound arrogant and ignorant of many basic facts. There's what you know and think, and what the world knows in full of its history.

If you want to be treated like a person, a real stable human being, then stop acting like something your not. Your not the gender you want to be, getting hormone shots wont change that, stop making content that tells kids "hey, its okay to be something you weren't born with" because frankly that leads to children diving deeper into the gender swapping life style, surgeries, hormones, forcing people to call them by fake terms and names. All the trans people scream they want acceptance the boo hoo "were tired, we want to be treated like people". Then get some serious psychological help, because normal people dont think they can change their genders and still be biological fully functioning and genetically as they think they are. Your born one way, don't lie and go to medicine and "feelings" about identity as your only real excuse because frankly, the queer community has become a cancer by forcing it on others.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> if you decide to move forward with the project and expand on it a little, i'd expand on _character_ specifics instead of trans-sentric topics. Show that the trans child is (otherwise) completely normal; show that it doesn't matter what toys you play with. He may like the same toys as the other kids by showing a common affinity for "masculine" action figures among both genders of kids. Show that she likes to play dress up just like the other kids; some dress up like lady doctors, some male nurses. Show some girls playing with trucks and construction toys, show boys playing in a make-believe kitchen. Show some girls getting dirty in the grass and some boys shying away from the mud. Maybe take a page or two to talk about clothing; boys and girls who wear overalls, slacks, and maybe a boy who fancies a hair tie. *Showing the similarities between both genders, not differences*. -just a thought.
> 
> You did well to outline a message in your little book, but with such a touchy subject as this, it's unfortunately too easy to be lumped together with...well...  Case in point :
> 
> ...



Whats quite disturbing is that....there are not nay basic similarities in gender, both sexes are equal because they are not the same, its only function is reproduction, not to be a copy of everything else.  Males have more muscle mass, endurance and females dont. Its why cultrally men domainte the work force, military and hard jobs because naturally males have real biological advantages, but someone of the other gender taking hormons to "be something" isn't solid. Frankly its the same as steroid usage.

Now the the propaganda portion. It is when you look at this in the long run and the message it sends. If this was a year ago I would be saying this book is amazing,  flawless we need this to stop the hate. But frankly escaping from the left, its lies about biology, reality and facts and they push this made up soul science you have to look at it this way:

This is a BOOK made for CHILDREN. Brainwashes them by providing a narrative "anyone can be the opposite gender or gender fluid" when really its not possible because its not naturally correct. Children are going to grow up taking this to account because its all touchy feely support. Something a majority of people need because they are not strong enough and want to exist in society normally, and with support and love. Its a common genetic trait, we seek acceptance to prevent conflict and live long lives in society, many tribal functions are built off of that and now its being weaponized.

Its propaganda because its saying there is a new race of "awesome normal people". A common tactic used by many genocidal, cultural creation factions, they create new identities and live by them as their only logic. These classes then go to form violence against those who "oppose their existence". Sounds familiar? That's because its the Queer community now. Their only calling card is what they identity as then what they are, and that's really dangerous. Showing children "hey its okay your friend is not the gender they are" will only encourage people to ignore the deep dangerous mental health plague that infects a HUGE portion of the trans community. That's a death sentence, your giving people a death sentence by supporting made up things in their head. That is not okay, these people need help, support to shake out of this dysphoria and live full lives.

I dont want dead trans people but the accepting nature of the left means they grow in full with such health issues and end up either dying or becoming unstable. I don't want that, as a past medical student I want people to live healthy logical lives with no lies at all. But then again given this is the furry fandom, the porn and gender identities are the only thing people care about.

We today can prove its a mental illness, its not a soul or "I always knew thing". Reality is not that fairy tale simple.


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## CupOfChamomile (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Of course I am to be civil, I'm not like these militant swj leftists who call me every name in the book. I prefer logic, common sense and basic respect even if we disagree on this. Now I dont hate trans folk, I know a lot of em In my life and they are pretty cool people but they have major mental health issues. And while you say you dont I cannot ignore the fact that all the trans folsk I know need serious medial, medication and psychological help around the clock. It isnt because they are bullied, hell NY is the biggest Leftist pro gay bisex etc etc state there is. I just dont think it adds up when people just tell me its due to "bullying" or hate crimes when life wise they are loved and accepted by their families by still try and want to end their lives.
> 
> Now I can come to some terms with agreeing with actual queer people in the past being called mentally ill, because thats how society works. Social norms and behavoirs dictate how others treat one another. And because such a small percentage of the population didnt act, look or behave right. Now their treatment back then was...extremely disturbing and a basic violation of rights.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how you can possibly say that you don't hate transfolk, but immediately turn around and call us "mentally unstable sexual deviants". 
How the hell is a little children's book about being nice to others even if they are different a case of sexual deviance? How is it any different than saying that it is okay to have 2 dads? No where do I mention hormone blockers in my story, for the reason that I don't think they are always necessary to being trans, especially for children. The character here changes clothes, and asks to be called by a different name, that's it. It's no different than all those kids who would be asked to be called by a nickname instead of their full name. Hormone blockers aren't some miracle drug, they have their problems and the negatives have to be weighed against the positives before administering them on a case by case basis. We don't really know the long lasting effects of hormone blockers, and we won't know unless the people who started the treatment grow up. But throwing all hormones in the garbage because they might have side effects isn't a good option? They have been shown to help significantly with gender dysphoria and make the people who take them much happier.
Yikes okay, you sure did just blame the AIDS epidemic on gay people. The AIDS epidemic would have never been an epidemic if it wasn't for the lack of medical help and information. The government, especially the current president Reagan, wanted nothing to do with the rapidly dying gay population. People knew almost nothing about safe sex then, because no information was given. 
Being a med student does not make you somehow perfect and knowledgeable about everything. You don't get to claim to be all knowledgeable about all subjects, when clearly thousands of other doctors disagree with your stance. You treat me like I'm some kind of idiot. I'm not a dumbass, I fully know that I will never be biologically or genetically cis male. I don't see why it makes you so upset for me to ask to be called "he" when it costs you absolutely nothing and it greatly helps my mental health. It costs you nothing to let people call themselves a different gender than what they were born, because it makes their lives better. I could head over to any psychologist and they would agree that me identifying as male is far healthier than forcing myself to be something I'm not and end up back in that shitty hole of depression.
How in the world can you think that you are doing any good for transgender people's mental health by repeatedly saying all the shit that makes dysphoria worse, and wanting to force them to be in a constant state of self-hatred fueled dysphoria. What you are saying is in no way different from someone saying "Homosexuality is a mental disease, and they should all go get mental help to make them straight again".  
Yes, I am a bit angry. I'm angry because I don't find the topic of whether or not I get to be treated as a human being a fun little topic for debate. I'm asking you to please leave this alone. I don't like blocking people, I don't think it solves problems, but honestly I don't want to keep dealing with something that keeps dragging down my mental health and isn't going to go anywhere. 
I'm sorry you live a life so full of hate. I hope you can come to love people for who they are instead of forcing them to fit into your world.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

We litteraly have brain scans of the human brain indicating that trans people have the brain of the opposite gender in a body that produces the wrong hormones for that brain, resulting in dysphoria and mental health problems unless they receive at minimum hormone treatment to match their hormones to their brain. We don't live in a fantasy world where nuerology doesn't exist.
www.google.com: Transgender brain scans promised as study shows structural differences in people with gender dysphoria

The aids epidemic came about because condoms wheren't a thing in the gay community. Sex ed back then was backwards as hell, and in some cases still is. Because Gay people didn't have to worry about pregnancy, they didn't use condoms that often. And when aids hit that community that wasn't using condoms by the same coincidence as straights, the results where to be expected.

Respectability politics is litteraly political correctness, and doesn't actually work.

People who don't transition who are trans suffer from a pile of mental health issues due to their brains being at odds with their bodies. They are more likely to commit suicide as a result. 

I don't actually see a lot of "kill all cis" memes from the far left. I did see a gay man drive through a protest of the death of a transgendered woman at the hands of police. It's nice to see now that Gay people have their rights they are leaving everyone else out to fight that struggle themselves. 

My best friend is a transgendered woman. She grew up going to a church that denounced her as evil and deffective, with a father that advocated conversion therapy and stockpiled arms for the "coming race war". The last time she attempted suicide was before she started to transition. Since starting hormones, she has been impressively more mentally stable. She used to be on testosterone overload, which made her a violent asshole. She still has mental health problems because of the bullshit she was subjected to, and will probably carry some of those mental scars for the rest of her life.


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## Reserved_Krolik (Jun 16, 2018)

This is really nice! I'm kind of amazed that you were able to make it in 5 days! Lovely message, too.


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## Ginza (Jun 16, 2018)

@Ciderfine 

For someone who is “civil” and uses “logic and reasoning” you sure are being disrespectful and vitriolic toward people who struggle with a legitimate mental illness :/

Being transgender isn’t fake. It’s caused by a mental illness which is known as gender dysphoria, which is often caused by the brain resembling that of the sex they wish to be. It’s not some “Tumblr SJW” shit, it’s real. You don’t have to like it nor accept it, but don’t try to act as though it doesn’t exist. Scientists have actually proven it does. 

And frankly, why do you care? If parents want to read their children a book about being transgender, that’s their business. The same argument of “indoctrination” could be said about teaching children: religion, that certain political figures are evil, atheism, etc. Aside from that, it shouldn’t matter whether someone chooses to transition or not. That’s their life and their business. Having gender dysphoria isn’t fun, it’s a difficult thing to deal with.

Honestly, you need to chill. Don’t like it? Don’t read it.


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## Infrarednexus (Jun 16, 2018)

I used to know very little about the transgender community, and I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't take it seriously enough, but all that changed when I actually talked to some trans people and listened to what they had to say. Many of them are going through a pretty tough life crisis and many only want to be accepted for who they are. Who are we to deny them that? I learned from those people that just because I didn't relate to it didn't mean it was not worth supporting. I am thankful for all the people who accept me for being gay, so in turn I feel it's right to extend the same kindness to others who also feel out of place in society.

I love this book for both it's adorable art and basic but strong message about simply being kind to other people who happen to be different.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Ginza said:


> @Ciderfine
> 
> For someone who is “civil” and uses “logic and reasoning” you sure are being disrespectful and vitriolic toward people who struggle with a legitimate mental illness :/
> 
> ...



I honestly don't see anything disrespectful or virtue attacking in what I wrote given its backed up by science. Trans people are mentally ill that if they dont choose to get help and try to breed the culture onto kids, other people and making everything think they can switch gender, races and anything else on the fly really is destructive on their end given how the LGBTQAI has turned into sexualizing kids, putting kids on hormone blockers and attacking people who don't like what others have to say. You kind of fit this example, I have been civil, I haven't restored to swearing, slandering as there is documented proof its a mental illness and when people don't take care of illness, shit like this happens. Frankly the most hateful people I run into are other gays or trans folk for not liking to hear some people prefer basic biology and actual science.

To which I have to say, please direct to why saying a mental disease isn't a gender or a race or an identity is disrespectful. You always take the bold approach in saying I'm sort of monster but frankly I've been quite logical and not ranting off. I've provided fair reasons, I've not said anything thats a real shocker in todays time tbh. 

Now lets get to the part you quote of SWJ stuff, it is. Frankly the moment you call someone out of mental illness or such, they quote the "its my life" to "my brain works like this". That's partially, true, their mentally ill brain is causing them to do these things, its not some space soul out of body past life regression. There is a hive/pack mind mentality that gives flawed and empty excuses to what they do as "real" excuses. 

Why do I care? Well this topic got my attention, and I found out its another leftist false science gender fluid swj queer thing like most of the toxic queer community is. I put my two cents into it, but frankly I have to direct what you said back at you. Why do you care about what I wrote so much that you always have to leave some angry response telling me to "shut it" when honestly I'm not angry, just disappointed in the fact that mental illness is being used as a full excuse to change your gender when you cant change your gender at all.

I've been civil, fair and logical..unless you think me having a different train of though is hate speech. So tell me why do I care? Because this isnt right, its dangerous and parents are setting up their own children for an asinine  world of fairy tales then trying to raise normal healthy kids and offspring. You do care about healthy children right? Because frankly it sounds like you don't, it sounds like you don't want people to challenge the serve mental health issues trans folks really face, it sounds like you want this unchecked, and wide spread. There's only one thing parents can really tell their kids about transgenderism: Its a mental disease/disorder. Nothing more or less. That's it really.


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## Infrarednexus (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> I honestly don't see anything disrespectful or virtue attacking in what I wrote given its backed up by science. Trans people are mentally ill that if they dont choose to get help and try to breed the culture onto kids, other people and making everything think they can switch gender, races and anything else on the fly really is destructive on their end given how the LGBTQAI has turned into sexualizing kids, putting kids on hormone blockers and attacking people who don't like what others have to say. You kind of fit this example, I have been civil, I haven't restored to swearing, slandering as there is documented proof its a mental illness and when people don't take care of illness, shit like this happens. Frankly the most hateful people I run into are other gays or trans folk for not liking to hear some people prefer basic biology and actual science.
> 
> To which I have to say, please direct to why saying a mental disease isn't a gender or a race or an identity is disrespectful. You always take the bold approach in saying I'm sort of monster but frankly I've been quite logical and not ranting off. I've provided fair reasons, I've not said anything thats a real shocker in todays time tbh.
> 
> ...


How about we look at this book at it's most basic form, being nice to those who are different. I'm sure we can all come to an agreement that that makes a good children's book. The book doesn't mention anything related to science or psychology or propaganda. It's just cute drawings featuring a transgender character being understood and respected. I see no harm in that.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> We litteraly have brain scans of the human brain indicating that trans people have the brain of the opposite gender in a body that produces the wrong hormones for that brain, resulting in dysphoria and mental health problems unless they receive at minimum hormone treatment to match their hormones to their brain. We don't live in a fantasy world where nuerology doesn't exist.
> www.google.com: Transgender brain scans promised as study shows structural differences in people with gender dysphoria
> 
> The aids epidemic came about because condoms wheren't a thing in the gay community. Sex ed back then was backwards as hell, and in some cases still is. Because Gay people didn't have to worry about pregnancy, they didn't use condoms that often. And when aids hit that community that wasn't using condoms by the same coincidence as straights, the results where to be expected.
> ...




Lets start this from the top.
1. The link your provided is just a news article, not from a trusted and non biased scientific/medical organization.  Its really an echo chamber of "trans brains are like this" and mentions nothing new or neutral, in fact its more sounding in support of trans people via a lie of "they are like this due to brains and nothing else". That's not true, they are sick, very very sick and unstable people.


2. We have to start with the the origins of the LGBTQAI+, it was founded by a black trans person that after their revolution was done and said spiraled out into horrific portions. While such person created it, they never took responsibility or common sense into account. And yes while the queer folks dont use condoms its because...We cant get members of our same gender pregnant, that's a fact. So after the volatile  queer culture went back into sex with actual function and no real consequences no one took accountability for anything. That trans person who created it all? Did nothing to convenience others to use safe safe methods, to stop foolish and destructive behavior that to this day is still stigmatizing queer folk.

I dont think thats insane to say, the leader did nothing to try and change, save lives and ended up creating and entire faction that Bloomed the worst virus epidemic in this country since say...the spanish flu. Infected queer folk spread out into the worlds domains, donating blood, sharing needles. They brought this on themselves for not taking control and thinking about anything other then sex, drugs and partying (which to this day is still true!) So now its not just a gay issue, its everyone issues. There is a risk for the virus always due to people not being safe, logical, using common sense. The same traits of the LGBTQAI are still to this day found: Culture without purpose that leads to horrible things. Now the thing about the AIDS crisis is that it was created and spread by active parties in LGBTQAI, that means trans folks too. Frankly I think any group that doesn't take any decent responsibility for basic health and going all in is a threat.

Now to #3. Trans people who do transition still are at risk of mental health, just because someone lives a lie, has their genitals cut off and take hormones doesnt make them what they want. In fact they seem to be more violtile and dangerous. A common exmaple would be Bruce Jenner. Made threats of violence on Ben Shapiro, and killed someone via a car. Transiting doesn't help people, getting therapy to undo their gender dysphoria does.

You mentioned the police thing: Since you didnt mention any other facts about what I assume you think is an unjust police killing (like everyone screams about everyday) I have to remind people that we don't live in a police state and police use force against threats. And frankly yes, people do have to things for themselves, fight and always have their rights upheld, know how things work in the law, in court and in life and death. We dont give things out for free, people have to work hard, plan and aquire things naturally. This is not a communist state where everything is given out and no work has to happen, we are on our own as adults but have a system of legal and social functions to help cater and solve issues we may run into with. Franlly I find it immature you think we homosexuals have to be slaves to everyone else's issues and problems. You see that's real political correctness the left pushes these "utopia freedom fighters"  when they dont exist.  Gays don't have to support other gays, bisexuals or trans people. We are free unique people, where are ideological plantation slaves.  We don't serve only "our people" but society.

Your on your own, It is not my job to help other gays or people because that's not the law, that's not common sense, its a free for all which is what makes this country so great: Because I don't have to be your slave, or servant if you have an issue. That's what freedom is, an Independence from factions or ideas that want to control and have others serve only them. 

Okay so how does that work? Churches are moral and religious codes of life conduct, having the freedom to presume religion and chose what you live and belief as is the greatest strength we have in this country. No one is a slave for just one idea, we have the professional choice to chose and be what we want ideologically speaking without the fear of the death or torture. Now I cant say that of islam, it is the number 1 killer of the LGBTQAI, muslim's and other religions, but here people are safe even if they live a lie that ends up killing them. Their life and well being and choices is their responsibility. This is not a government hand out nation.

And now heres the thing, churches have the right to say that. Its the biggest thing we have in america, Freedom of speech is its own checks and balances. Is it wrong? I am not sure because I haven't heard what the church really is worried about you mention, I have to get more facts to understand why they are coming from such a  strong stance. But they do have a few truths in what you said, it is a social negligence, to parade around as something your not, in the opposite genders clothing and behave a certain way. Queer folk back in the day where indeed social outcasts because the never really added to society. Religion is building block of society, philosophy and morals, and such things where indeed a threat. You see if you don't keep balance and moral stance on things whats to stop hundreds of school kids from wearing the wrong clothing, acting like the wrong gender and destroying aspects of a stable society.

Now what worries me is what I have stated and hinted up above before. Hormone usage, using steroids just to feel "more intune" really sounds like addiction. This person of yours you know is not the right gender. Women should not need to take a sex hormone only found more in men that leads to muscle mass, violent tempers and if taken to much leads to cancer, heart issues and so forth. More and more this sounds like a drug addict, needing some supply of something to remain what they are...but this person you know...isnt the gender they are even with all the drugs they take. Its not hateful to say that.

Frankly I'm more worried people like you are okay with trans people taking hormonal drugs, and ignoring the reality that they aren't the gender they are. They cant have kids the way they think the real gender they have is naturally. Sex is a very important thing, its an identification of who we are naturally as humans, and when you change that you are creating something false, that doesn't exist, and kills people because it is an illness. You cannot treat an illness by feeding it lies. That makes all illnesses worse. People with gender dysphoria  are dying at their own hands because people have been catering to lies. That is not okay at all.


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## Massan Otter (Jun 16, 2018)

Who knows where the mod (mods?) are at, but there is a section of the forum rules which says the following; 
"If a particular type of content does not appeal to you, then do not seek it out to make disparaging comments. Users with a pattern of this behavior may be cited for harassment. "

Defining malicious speech can get contentious, but it would be hard to deny that the behaviour above is going on here, by the bucketload.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> How about we look at this book at it's most basic form, being nice to those who are different. I'm sure we can all come to an agreement that that makes a good children's book. The book doesn't mention anything related to science or psychology or propaganda. It's just cute drawings featuring a transgender character being understood and respected. I see no harm in that.



You see what you did there? You tried to turn the conversation into what leads trans and queer folk to die and have ben killed off in the past. You see accpetance doesnt work, there are many violent Muslims in my state who arent accepting of the fact of my sexuality, I don't have to force that on them. You see its the differences of reality. Acceptance sounds nice but really it turns into "You have to think like us or die". Its a common practice found in many other things. Communism talks about utopia, peace, acceptance, respect, unity, but then it turns into slavery and killing everyone.

If we all preach acceptance and love, we ignore the real issues that have been prove, we ignore personal rights, freedoms and expressions because they turn into "hate speech" and some non existent threat. The UK has been doing this, CA has been doing this. Has it been working? No, in fact throwing love at things makes things worse. Terrorist attacks, sex crimes, The LGTBQAI has turned to wanting to give other queer folk aids, turning kids into transgender doped up sex icons. Thats what acceptance gets you. We don't need accept, we need some common sense. You may be right the book mentions nothing heavy, but by giving a kind and loving idea leads the lie there are no flaws with being trans, when there are. 40-50% of trans people end their own lives, I'm sorry but not touching any facts or reality is going to lead kids down this road of lies and it will hurt them gravely.

But that's what propaganda is....saying your the one, the special hero we need without going into the truth. All it is really is fuel for the fire. The LGBTQAI have the biggest body count of their own people this century due to such "love" and acceptance". Just remember, disease, reality and religion do not care for people. AK47s will always win over "Acceptance". Thats a fact.


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## Some Moron (Jun 16, 2018)

This thread went downhill fast. I guess arguing is more fun than I realise.


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## Rant (Jun 16, 2018)

@Ciderfine  you really sound like an asshole. Seriously. Step back, take yourself out of it and re-read what you've posted.

Sounds like a hateful, misinformed person, don't they? LGBTQ people do not have a monopoly on mental illness. Straight people can also suffer from many different issues. They can also function just fine in society, just like trans people. 

Are you perhaps racist or sexiest? That too can be a mental illness.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

1 "The findings, presented at the* European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting in Barcelona*" 

"Professor Julie Bakker, who led the research at the University of Liege in Belgium, said: “Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain characteristics that are typical of their desired gender.”"

Professor Julie Bakker is well published, credible, and probably trying to expand this research before a more formal publication. That way a larger body of evidence in detail can be presented. www.giga.uliege.be: GIGA - PQF - Publications

There are multiple studies with the same indications as well. 


3  Anecdotal evidence means fuck all. 


4 That doesn't give you a right to commit attempted vehicular manslaughter? Nobody is saying you have to fight for the rights of others, but it makes you a coward and a traitor to expect them to fight for your rights and then leave them in the dust.


"The LGBTQAI have the biggest body count of their own people this century due to such "love" and acceptance"." 
Clarify/Source?

"No, in fact throwing love at things makes things worse.", "AK47s will always win over "Acceptance". Thats a fact."
For how much shit you talk about Antifa, I can literally rip the exact same quotes from Antifa conversations. And I mean that in the old and original version of the word literally.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

CupOfChamomile said:


> I don't understand how you can possibly say that you don't hate transfolk, but immediately turn around and call us "mentally unstable sexual deviants".
> How the hell is a little children's book about being nice to others even if they are different a case of sexual deviance? How is it any different than saying that it is okay to have 2 dads? No where do I mention hormone blockers in my story, for the reason that I don't think they are always necessary to being trans, especially for children. The character here changes clothes, and asks to be called by a different name, that's it. It's no different than all those kids who would be asked to be called by a nickname instead of their full name. Hormone blockers aren't some miracle drug, they have their problems and the negatives have to be weighed against the positives before administering them on a case by case basis. We don't really know the long lasting effects of hormone blockers, and we won't know unless the people who started the treatment grow up. But throwing all hormones in the garbage because they might have side effects isn't a good option? They have been shown to help significantly with gender dysphoria and make the people who take them much happier.
> Yikes okay, you sure did just blame the AIDS epidemic on gay people. The AIDS epidemic would have never been an epidemic if it wasn't for the lack of medical help and information. The government, especially the current president Reagan, wanted nothing to do with the rapidly dying gay population. People knew almost nothing about safe sex then, because no information was given.
> Being a med student does not make you somehow perfect and knowledgeable about everything. You don't get to claim to be all knowledgeable about all subjects, when clearly thousands of other doctors disagree with your stance. You treat me like I'm some kind of idiot. I'm not a dumbass, I fully know that I will never be biologically or genetically cis male. I don't see why it makes you so upset for me to ask to be called "he" when it costs you absolutely nothing and it greatly helps my mental health. It costs you nothing to let people call themselves a different gender than what they were born, because it makes their lives better. I could head over to any psychologist and they would agree that me identifying as male is far healthier than forcing myself to be something I'm not and end up back in that shitty hole of depression.
> ...





Frankly I dunno if your really delusional or its just the mental illness or swj logic kicking it. But heres what I dont understand, you say I'm hateful of trans people yet I'm not. Hell I'm the best customer of most transfolk on the main site, I'm respectful, curtuous and kind.  Now the "unstable sexual dieviants" applies to some trans folk and the rest of the LGBTQAI,  and here's why.

1. Anyone who sexualizes a kid because they are trans or being put on hormone blockers is a big no no.
2. Because the LEGTBAQI cannot reproduce naturally as heterosexual couples can, its all about the sex, the lifestyle the drugs.
3. Most trans people are deviants because they want to be something they arent. Why do women want to look like men, have the bodies of men but not the genitalia, the DNA and have to rely on injections of hormones like a drug addict just to feel okay with themselves and vice versa. Like holy cow, why do you all want to hybridize a made up thing when your not the real gender you are?
4. Dysphoria gives you a 40% chance to off yourself as well as a possibility you will see a gender change surgery. Sorry but anyone whos that prone to killing themselves as well as cutting up their born with genitals is not a good sign of stable health.

You have to look at the real picture, your taking a cute simple idea, and turning it into a book about accepting someone as something they arent due to a mental illness. Sugar coating and leaving out facts is what kills people and makes people live a lie. No heres the thing, the trans people I hire and do business with, they can take reality, they can understand they arent normal, have severer  health issues but they dont lie about, and we are civil. In fact I only do business with people who don't freak out and mention "I dont want to block you" everytime I say something they dont want to hear and wish to retreat back into an echo chamber really is a sign of instability. But heres the facts, I'm not mentally ill, I'm here right now and I dont scream and crawl away from a conversation no matter how painful or reality introducing it is. That's the fact.

And here's the last bit since many LQBGTQAI folk are so demanding to "have me make the world a better place for them." Thats not my job, thats their job to fix their health issues and find out why in the sweet hell they always are dropping dead killing themselves in numbers no other group in society is dying by.. By feeding them these lies about "oh its okay to be trans" with no real issues is whats killing these people, me criticizing the lies you live and spread to others will help them wake up and see the world different. Maybe even get some real help instead of safe spaces because at the end of the day, queer folk talk about utopias and everyone being accepting but they still are killing themselves and no hate group has to lift a finger.

So tell me, why do you think I should become a slave, cater to mentally ill people just to make them feel better and live a lie? Dont you think talking about reality and how the toxic queer community is now making this a pipe dream, acting like they are gods, doing what ever they please? I frankly find your ignorance to be high stating I'm so full of hate when really, All ive done is listed the facts. Thats not hateful, I think your the hateful one for trying to slander, rewrite reality and what transgender is: A serious mental illness that needs to be addressed rather then feed. Because at the end of the day, when I was just a vile, evil and toxic swj as you, attacking people just because they didn't use someone elses pronouns or didn't like anything that was gay I did the same shit as you. And frankly it doesn't work.

Wake up, because your world is drowning, but its on you to swim and not me to say "your fine". So go ahead, show everyone the cowards ways out, block me, slander me but you cant change reality and the context of your character....is very low in standards and ethics. If you want hate, all you need to do is look in a mirror.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

"Because the LEGTBAQI cannot reproduce naturally as heterosexual couples can, its all about the sex, the lifestyle the drugs."

So sex is only good if it is for reproduction? What is this religiously based horse shit?!

I love how you keep accusing everyone of being a bunch of drug addicts btw. That is classy.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Rant said:


> @Ciderfine  you really sound like an asshole. Seriously. Step back, take yourself out of it and re-read what you've posted.
> 
> Sounds like a hateful, misinformed person, don't they? LGBTQ people do not have a monopoly on mental illness. Straight people can also suffer from many different issues. They can also function just fine in society, just like trans people.
> 
> Are you perhaps racist or sexiest? That too can be a mental illness.



I kind of find it ironic you saying that given your user name is "Rant". No, I shouldn't have to censor myself to make people with mental illness or toxic lives feel any better. That's not how reality works.

No not at all, Queer cultured turned away from civil rights, to bug chasers, drug users, and slandering like you do. The common "your a racist and sexist" is a trait used by the left all the time. Okay then, wheres your proof I'm a racist and sexist? I've provided facts that trans people are dropping like flies due to their illness, all you have done is scream "your an asshole who needs to leave and rewrite what you said."

Tell me, why dont you rewrite what you said? You slandered, you come from a stance of aggression and perhaps hurt feelings, but what you wrote isnt true or nice, so you know what, I want you to rewrite everything you said just to appease me. See how that works? I dont demand people to "use different words" I demand they look at the facts and reality, because if they cant take what I'm gonna say, they they aren't worthy or ready for society or reality. 

Also racism isn't real: here's why. My siblings are 100% from africa, I live in multicultrcal family. My boss is a female, shes hard working respectful to the job and my skills. You want to know whats racist? Having blacks and queer folk killing each other in rates larger then anything ever seen then blaming it on "white man". Really you need to step off your high horse because frankly, racism and sexism aren't diseases, their traits  of extreme ideas and they hold true in some meanings. Sexists only want certain people to have certain roles in society, which makes sense but is still unfair in my eyes. I frankly believe only men should be in the armed forced and basic military boots on the gound but that's really it. That doesn't make me a sexist, because I know biological males have something females don't. And that's why I'm a hard and trusted worker in my company because I don't bullshit facts, I work hard, and I don't cry when someone says something bad like everyone else here doesn (The "you need to rewrite what youve said")


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## Rant (Jun 16, 2018)

Chauvinistic! That's the word for you. 

My mate works in the jail, he says that child molesters are often weak, cowardly men, who target children because children don't fight adults because they don't understand. Chomos as he calls them, are shaped by society, their past abuse and their inability to deal with adults. Not one of the 80 odd in custody now claim to be trans or gay in any way, shape or form.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

I'm note sure, but I do believe I have been blocked?

Anyhow,
@CupOfChamomile the booklet is great, and well drawn.

Not blocked, just being ignored.


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## Rant (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> I kind of find it ironic you saying that given your user name is "Rant". No, I shouldn't have to censor myself to make people with mental illness or toxic lives feel any better. That's not how reality works.
> 
> No not at all, Queer cultured turned away from civil rights, to bug chasers, drug users, and slandering like you do. The common "your a racist and sexist" is a trait used by the left all the time. Okay then, wheres your proof I'm a racist and sexist? I've provided facts that trans people are dropping like flies due to their illness, all you have done is scream "your an asshole who needs to leave and rewrite what you said."
> 
> ...


Excuse me? Where in my previous post did I say "rewrite" what you said? 

I said to RE-READ what you posted to see how abrasive you come off as. 

I'm also pin pointing that your disdain come from the idea that men *Shouldn't* become female because you see women as weak. And vice versa. You seem to hate this idea and constantly point out how weak women are. Now sure, men are strong, but that doesn't mean women are worth less. It doesn't mean they can't do the same jobs. Cooperation is key to success, if two people with opposite strengths and weaknesses work together they are will accomplish much more then those who want to stay segregated.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Sweety try linking us some actual documents instead of library of forum articles that cover everything from lung tissue to parasites, because in the end its unbiased trusted research organizations and not creepy strange links, I know medical data when I see it. I still cringe remembering having to do medical coding for college, hospital and labs due to how easy it is for someone to upload something wrong and I have to correct it.

My rights? What do you mean? I was born lawfully in this country and was given rights. The Queer community owes me nothing and vice versa. And frankly I don't want to be around people who continue the same issues: spreading diseases, lying about STD status, making it all about their life style and feelings. Queers are the most hateful people right next to blacks with assuming they can get everything for free and if you don't think like them, your a threat.

Tell me exactly what do I own diseased, drug, leather thong incest pushing faggots and people with mental illness and made up sexuality or genders? Because by using your logic, I could easily say you all owe me everything, I can demand money, time and resources from you using that logic. Why should I cater to people who gave me nothing, create trouble and cause stigmas of what Queer folk are? The founder fathers gave me rights. HIV spreading mentally ill queers in the past didnt. They just created a civil rights moment that lead to AIDs, drugs, and even more crack downs on flaming faggots. 

Wheres my proof? Well my life, all the gay/queer people here in NY are the most violent, disgusting deranged people. In highschool I was stabbed by a trans student in highscool a few times, sexually stalked by a bisexual male in highschool. In my school, gangs of swj queers would bully, hunt down and make up false stories of people who didnt think like them, or came from different cultures. Even though that was a short time ago, the same things still happen today.
My lovers in the past, both gay and bisexual where abusive, delusional. The Queer scene in NY is sex, supremacy and class. Not about history or civil rights. The list goes on. Its' not neo nazis killing gays, or Trumps secret police. Gays have to look to themselves, what their communities does and practices as tradition. 

What ever happened to the queer community. Took in all these bad apples, it needs to go back to their roots of what they are. Society, shame, differences and raising awareness of HIV, then sexualizing  children. A majority of queer folk are so far gone, I wish god mercy on their souls, because being queer isnt about sex all the time which is what its turned too.


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## Massan Otter (Jun 16, 2018)

Where are the mods?  We're into overt, unambiguous hate speech by this point.  @Dragoneer @SSJ3Mewtwo


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> "Because the LEGTBAQI cannot reproduce naturally as heterosexual couples can, its all about the sex, the lifestyle the drugs."
> 
> So sex is only good if it is for reproduction? What is this religiously based horse shit?!
> 
> I love how you keep accusing everyone of being a bunch of drug addicts btw. That is classy.




Well then whats the purpose of sex then/ Fun? Exercise? No, its about reproduction. Queer folk have only the heterosexual people in society to thank for their existence and birth. Its not bs, how else do you think society works? Society is the reproduction of a populace and culture. Things that don't reproduce do extinct, its common sense. 

Thats how this nation was born, we had stable people, committed to marriage, hard work give rise to the generation to come. I dont see what I said to be based on religion in anyway. I'm a Satanist by trade, but I do believe there is a higher power. Because queer folk  dont have the risk of pregnancy, they can have sex as much as they want. Its how the AIDs epidemic spread because homosexuals arent natural compared to heterosexuals. We are people but not sexually the same.

Because queer folk still abuse sex, they have a proven rate of higher partners then any group in the world. High as swingers, you fuck and then move onto the next dude. Only creates disease, unstable social aspects and relationships. Its not natural to have over 400 partners a year.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

www.journals.elsevier.com: Hormones and Behavior

Evidently, articles published in this journal are forum posts?


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## Some Moron (Jun 16, 2018)

Gay people, rights, sexism, racism and something about a great country? A conversational rollercoaster, that's for sure.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

@Dragoneer @SSJ3Mewtwo 
This threadthread s great, but has devolved into Cider unloading political opinions and being a general douche. I don't think anything here is ban worthy, but please lock so it doesn't deteriorate any further.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Rant said:


> Excuse me? Where in my previous post did I say "rewrite" what you said?
> 
> I said to RE-READ what you posted to see how abrasive you come off as.
> 
> I'm also pin pointing that your disdain come from the idea that men *Shouldn't* become female because you see women as weak. And vice versa. You seem to hate this idea and constantly point out how weak women are. Now sure, men are strong, but that doesn't mean women are worth less. It doesn't mean they can't do the same jobs. Cooperation is key to success, if two people with opposite strengths and weaknesses work together they are will accomplish much more then those who want to stay segregated.



I apologize for misreading that, my bad.

Actually thats not where Im coming from at all. Are women weak? No. Are they equal to men? No they arent. Have you met a male and a female? Entirely different creatures that aren't the same at all. Now, stop trying to make it sound like I'm idolizing casear legion in New vegas because women are wonderful, but they cant do everything a man can perfectly, evenly or the same. The topic at hand it about transgenderism, but I can see how you got what your saying.

 The issue with transgenderism is that people feel you can swap reality, genes, and biology with just an mental illness, and steriods. That's not how it works, if your a women who becomes FTM, your not a man. Your just a female who's doping up on steroids to have the gains of male basic biology in terms of biochemistry while out preforming other women. 

Women 100% make different life choices from men, they do different things and do not have the same goals or hands on approach. They start families, want to cater and care, help support and provide but you dont see them doing any of the grueling work at all. In fact a very low population of women do hardcore job. Good for them if they do but men and women are not the same at all and they have different needs and wants. Men want to do the serious real stuff, and by allowing someone to cut off their genitals, take hormones and pretend their something their not is not REAL and doesnt define gender.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> @Dragoneer @SSJ3Mewtwo
> This threadthread s great, but has devolved into Cider unloading political opinions and being a general douche. I don't think anything here is ban worthy, but please lock so it doesn't deteriorate any further.



I dont think talking about facts counts as politcal unloading of "hate speech" at all. I'm sorry if you dont like what I have to say, but its your echo chamber and not mine.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Massan Otter said:


> Where are the mods?  We're into overt, unambiguous hate speech by this point.  @Dragoneer @SSJ3Mewtwo



Exactly what is hateful about talking about the seriosus issue trans people have with mental health? I dont want the trans people I know in my life to kill themselves, but the path of this conversation wants them to by not talking about it. How else can one raise awareness of something if they choose to censore it due to hate speech?

Frankly I havent said anything hateful, or against the law. Just whats know.


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

WithMyBearHands said:


> Why the fuck do you care
> 
> You’re being a thundercunt rn



Oh I see where this is going, you think I'm a bad guy for trying to talk about the real issue. Is that...all you have to offer. Name calling with no proof? You think I want the trans people I know to die because everyone sugar coats it? No, I'm doing this to save people from the lies.

Okay so thats it, name calling, no real conversation? Yep standard leftist right here, come back to me when there can be a civil conversation of facts and not feelings.


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Exactly what is hateful about talking about the seriosus issue trans people have with mental health? I dont want the trans people I know in my life to kill themselves, but the path of this conversation wants them to by not talking about it. How else can one raise awareness of something if they choose to censore it due to hate speech?
> 
> Frankly I havent said anything hateful, or against the law. Just whats know.


No ones censoring you.  We’re just saying that you’re acting like a prick.  What do you care if someone wants to transition or dress differently?


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Oh I see where this is going, you think I'm a bad guy for trying to talk about the real issue. Is that...all you have to offer. Name calling with no proof? You think I want the trans people I know to die because everyone sugar coats it? No, I'm doing this to save people from the lies.
> 
> Okay so thats it, name calling, no real conversation? Yep standard leftist right here, come back to me when there can be a civil conversation of facts and not feelings.


You’re a disgrace to the community.  Also fuck you for putting words in my mouth, eat a dick.  It’s not being “overly tolerant left” it’s being apathetically centrist and not giving a shit because it doesn’t affect my life at all.  Nor does it affect yours.  Pls fuck off


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## Some Moron (Jun 16, 2018)

WithMyBearHands said:


> No ones censoring you.  We’re just saying that you’re acting like a prick.  What do you care if someone wants to transition or dress differently?


You shouldn't have asked!


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

Also btw @ OP I think the book is cute asf and I wish you the best of luck ok god bless


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

Rant said:


> Chauvinistic! That's the word for you.
> 
> My mate works in the jail, he says that child molesters are often weak, cowardly men, who target children because children don't fight adults because they don't understand. Chomos as he calls them, are shaped by society, their past abuse and their inability to deal with adults. Not one of the 80 odd in custody now claim to be trans or gay in any way, shape or form.



That doesnt make much sense, why is it we only hear about the basic sex offender but never someone whos gay or such. Queer people can commit any crime, and in jail, you become property once they find out you "are more accepting in the rear". We never hear about the women who are abusers as well, its always the men men men. Doesnt make much sense truth be told that you can take what your partner says that when male target other males regardless of age doesnt make them gay or homosexual?

Now it is true people do prey on children because they don't understand, but its also because they are attracted to the child and the gender of the child. There are gay, bi, female, trans offenders in the world. But of course California legalized that shit so tought luck hearing about them in a new paper.


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

Related


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## Ciderfine (Jun 16, 2018)

WithMyBearHands said:


> You’re a disgrace to the community.  Also fuck you for putting words in my mouth, eat a dick.  It’s not being “overly tolerant left” it’s being apathetically centrist and not giving a shit because it doesn’t affect my life at all.  Nor does it affect yours.  Pls fuck off


 
Wow, ladies and gents I present the SWJ leftist furry! Someone who thinks I have to follow certain laws and methods of living just to be part of the community. You really need to get your head checked there. Listen kiddo, your the triggered one who doesnt like the fact I've held civil conversations, with facts on the topic. If your not fit to talk then why bother with the common swearing like a tornado just to protect one idea of yours?

If you cant hold a civil conversation, then Im gonna have to silence you for the better.


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## Some Moron (Jun 16, 2018)

WithMyBearHands said:


> Related


Perfect!


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Wow, ladies and gents I present the SWJ leftist furry! Someone who thinks I have to follow certain laws and methods of living just to be part of the community. You really need to get your head checked there. Listen kiddo, your the triggered one who doesnt like the fact I've held civil conversations, with facts on the topic. If your not fit to talk then why bother with the common swearing like a tornado just to protect one idea of yours?
> 
> If you cant hold a civil conversation, then Im gonna have to silence you for the better.


Go right ahead dude.  You’re a rude ass who can’t just live and let live

It’s not facts.  It’s you being a piece of shit.  You’re so concerned about your trans “friends” that I feel sorry for bc they associate with your bum ass?  Try actually fucking accepting them and supporting them instead of telling them you think they’re fucked up and are pedophiles.  No wonder trans suicide is on the rise.  Because of cunts like you.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

I didn't mention hatespeech, but you keep bringing in unrelated bullshit, and make sweeping generalizations about entire communities based on your own personal experience. You then judge people based on those affiliations and ignore evidence when presented if it contradicts your views. That by definition makes you a bigot, blinded by his own bias.

Criticism is not censorship.

You started talking shit with people other than myself, calling them SJWs and in some cases being drug abusers. That isn't rational or logical.

You also apply the same shitty logic used against Fascists by some of the worst members of Antifa groups towards anyone center *or* left.


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

lol he blocked me.  What a rectal jester.  Hope he can live with being that much of an asshole


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## Kumali (Jun 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> @Dragoneer @SSJ3Mewtwo
> This threadthread s great, but has devolved into Cider unloading political opinions and being a general douche. I don't think anything here is ban worthy, but please lock so it doesn't deteriorate any further.



@Dragoneer @SSJ3Mewtwo 

The thread was originally started to display, and presumably solicit feedback on, an artwork in progress. That's a perfectly valid and civil aim. (And @CupOfChamomile, I think it's off to a great start! Very promising artwork and design.)

Therefore, I don't think the thread should be locked - I think the individual who keeps hijacking it with homophobic and transphobic hate speech should be removed from it, and disciplined for harassment, as @Massan Otter rightly suggests in post #22.


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## Rant (Jun 16, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> That doesnt make much sense, why is it we only hear about the basic sex offender but never someone whos gay or such. Queer people can commit any crime, and in jail, you become property once they find out you "are more accepting in the rear". We never hear about the women who are abusers as well, its always the men men men. Doesnt make much sense truth be told that you can take what your partner says that when male target other males regardless of age doesnt make them gay or homosexual?
> 
> Now it is true people do prey on children because they don't understand, but its also because they are attracted to the child and the gender of the child. There are gay, bi, female, trans offenders in the world. But of course California legalized that shit so tought luck hearing about them in a new paper.



Dude.

My husband is a Deputy Sheriff who keeps these sick fucks locked up. I asked him are any of the chomos gay or trans and he said no. Not a one has been in the 4 years he's worked in the jail.
NOT. ONE. CHILD. MOSLESTER. IS. TRANS. OR. GAY.

The only instance he could think think of was this old pervert who tried to tell officers he's gay and has to be housed with the females inmates. He thought if he did that he could be with the ladies while in jail. It did not work and he was angry. That's not even a real gay guy either, just a sick fuck.


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## Sagt (Jun 16, 2018)

So, someone made a thread to share a cute comic she made about transgenders for a school project. 

In comes Ciderfine, otherwise known as The Logic Powerhouse, to soapbox his bigotted views on 'queer folk' and transgenders correct her, so that she knows her work is propaganda that corrupts young children.


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## Sagt (Jun 16, 2018)

"I don't hate trans people, but..."


Ciderfine said:


> most of them are cruel aggressive, or just really really mentally sick.





Ciderfine said:


> the entire majority of the most hateful, predatory and vile poeple have been other queer folk. Queer folk are a danger and since they have been lead so astray in my country they have turned into what they are now: Mentally unstable sexual deviants.





Ciderfine said:


> Most trans people are deviants because they want to be something they arent. Why do women want to look like men, have the bodies of men but not the genitalia, the DNA and have to rely on injections of hormones like a drug addict just to feel okay with themselves and vice versa.



Finally:


Ciderfine said:


> I honestly don't see anything disrespectful or virtue attacking in what I wrote


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## Rant (Jun 16, 2018)

So I asked are their ANY trans in jail right now and he said 4. 3 were picked up for asulting an officer, all 3 were different incidents on different days/weeks. Not a one has a record for any crime against children. At all.


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## Some Moron (Jun 16, 2018)

Can we agree that the artwork itself is pretty neat? Ya' know, to try and get back on topic?


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## Infrarednexus (Jun 16, 2018)

Some Moron said:


> Can we agree that the artwork itself is pretty neat? Ya' know, to try and get back on topic?


The facial expressions were cute and I personally loved the paws myself. I liked the paintbrush style art and of course the moral of the story as well.


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## Rant (Jun 16, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> The facial expressions were cute and I personally loved the paws myself. I liked the paintbrush style art and of course the moral of the story as well.


I love how the position of the ears helps convey the emotions. I'd like to see more! Maybe covering different topics in a slice of life setting?


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

Rant said:


> I love how the position of the ears helps convey the emotions. I'd like to see more! Maybe covering different topics in a slice of life setting?


On that note, I need to go follow @CupOfChamomile 

Especially if they decide to make more comics, because this is great.


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## Mach (Jun 16, 2018)

@CupOfChamomile The style of the book is evocative of the later Winnie the Pooh book. This is very professionally done for someone who is still in school. Have you thought about marketing this to publishers? You will have expand the material, but you should give it a shot.


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## CupOfChamomile (Jun 16, 2018)

anyways here's wonderwall a doodle of the good boys





Thank you guys for the kind words!! I really appreciate it. I would love to at some point go back and fix up the problems with the story and redo it.


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

CupOfChamomile said:


> anyways here's wonderwall a doodle of the good boys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I want at least a two season rendition


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jun 16, 2018)

CupOfChamomile said:


> anyways here's wonderwall a doodle of the good boys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have an FA or other site I could follow you on?


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## WithMyBearHands (Jun 16, 2018)

Mach said:


> @CupOfChamomile The style of the book is evocative of the later Winnie the Pooh book. This is very professionally done for someone who is still in school. Have you thought about marketing this to publishers? You will have expand the material, but you should give it a shot.


Btw publishing is super easy in this day and age.  Some places may even do it for free.  Don’t quote me on that but I’ve heard that rumor


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## CupOfChamomile (Jun 16, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> The facial expressions were cute and I personally loved the paws myself. I liked the paintbrush style art and of course the moral of the story as well.


Thank you! The style was something new I tried out for this project and ended up really enjoying. I always loved the whimsical style of water color children's books. The art was heavily inspired by the children's show I watched a lot when I was little, Kipper!  


Rant said:


> I love how the position of the ears helps convey the emotions. I'd like to see more! Maybe covering different topics in a slice of life setting?


Thank you! Part of the reason I did anthro animals for this assignment is I love using ears to show emotion. Honestly that would be super fun! This story was made to be sort of like one book out of a fake series about Kit learning new life lessons and such. It would be fun to write other stories of them!! 


Mach said:


> @CupOfChamomile The style of the book is evocative of the later Winnie the Pooh book. This is very professionally done for someone who is still in school. Have you thought about marketing this to publishers? You will have expand the material, but you should give it a shot.


Ah thank you so much !! that's really kind of you. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I always wanted to make actual children's books! I'll keep working at it 


WithMyBearHands said:


> I want at least a two season rendition


kit & august go to the pond and learn about FROGS


Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Do you have an FA or other site I could follow you on?


yep!! my FA is here, though I always forget to put my art up there. All of my art is posted over here!


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## Mach (Jun 16, 2018)

CupOfChamomile said:


> Ah thank you so much !! that's really kind of you. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I always wanted to make actual children's books! I'll keep working at it


Think of it. Your work is good and having a side job you love doing is never a bad thing.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jun 16, 2018)

Closing this for review.


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