# The Art of Porn Writing



## Xadera (May 4, 2009)

After seeing some complaints here and there about how normal writers get no views and it's only the stuff with porn that gets noticed, I started thinking about why people say that. Of course, after about two seconds of thinking I had my answer. Then I started thinking about why people disrespect porn writing so much. Yadda, yadda, yadda, I ended up wanting to ask this question:

What do you prefer in the pornographic stories you read?

Besides the obvious specific fetishes, I mostly mean: what do you think makes for a good porn story/what do you think makes porn stories bad? What qualities of a porn story will keep you interested in it? What will make you instantly stop caring and move on?

For instance, I'll toss out a few qualities in a smut-story I find required in order to actually make me interested in it. 
First, it has to be a 'smooth' read. Someone in the "Trends" thread mentioned 'flow'. In other words: the story can't be too slow or too fast, can't be stuttered or clunky, etc. Even the slightest kink in the reading can throw off the mood entirely.
Second, it's nice to know the characters. Sex can be rather emotional, so having a feel for the characters helps regulate the mood. Is one of the characters shy? Is one normally rather dominant? Is there a stark shift in behavior for this character when it comes to sex? Etc.
Third, excessive detail is bad. When it takes a few minutes to read through an entire paragraph of just how the one character sticks their penor in the other, my eyes may have already glazed over. This is true for any story, but with sex (or any action scene) it can completely ruin the mental image. This is pretty much an extension of the 'flow' issue.
I have also noticed that many people prefer "short and sweet" versus "long and in depth", probably for physical reasons X3

There's a lot more I could go into, but I want to see if anybody actually takes interest in this thread first >. > I rarely see threads about the sexual side of story writing here (I went through 5 pages of threads to find just one or two), so I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't any interest. The "Common errors" and "Trends" threads cover much about general writing, but the sexual stuff can be a bit more difficult. There are a couple of 'tutorials' by Toonces and OokamKasumi, though they don't cover very much and are only from their own perspectives. I'd like to see what others think. Plus, this all could help me with my own writing XD


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## M. LeRenard (May 4, 2009)

I don't see how porn writing is all that much different than regular fiction, to be honest.  I mean, yeah, if you write a short stupid little piece that's just one overly dramatized sex scene and it gets 100 views in three hours, that's great, but it's not like it'll get you any recognition as a writer.  In order for that to happen, there has to be something more there.  And that I think comes down to the basics of regular writing: story, characters, pace, word-choice, etc.
I mean, supposing he has a camcorder and a body to film, anyone can make a terrible porn video, and supposing he has a word-processor of some kind, anyone can write a terrible porn story.  But anyone with a camcorder or a word processor could also make a terrible LARP video or write a terrible piece of D&D fanfiction as well.  People disrespect both of those genres pretty much the same amount.  Fact is, bad writing is bad writing.

That said, there is one thing I've noticed in the maybe two porn stories I happened to accidentally agree to critique (I generally avoid them, but sometimes they fall into my lap, you know), and that's the constant and unnecessary use of expletives to refer to body parts.  For some reason (beware: sling of bad words coming up), you always see people writing scenes that involve the words ass, dick, pussy, tits, etc., over and over again with little variation.  I think it's probably just a lack of imagination or inability to write creative description that does it.  I mean, if someone writes, "He shoved his dick into her pussy," I don't find that particularly appealing.  You see stuff like that written on stall doors in public bathrooms.  Doesn't belong in fiction.
But again, it just comes down to bad writing.  The governing mechanics should be the same.


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## AshleyAshes (May 4, 2009)

In my experiance, sex scenes are difficult to do right for multiple reasons.  Firstly, many who make the attempt seem to playout unrealistic or unbelievable things.

Secondly, sex itself is a very repetative act that I think is more fun in real life than in discription.  The longer a sex scene is the more the repetative nature shows, so they either need to toss in an absurd laundry list of positions or acts or it gets boring fast.  You'd probably encounter the same issue if you attempted to write out several pages of a character playing Halo on Xbox Live.  There are only so many ways that you can say 'Then he killed another guy' before people go 'ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT!'

Of course, that's why I generally think it's easier to not go into such detail of tedious thinks and say 'He played Xbox online... Now, moving on with the plot!'


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## Gavrill (May 4, 2009)

I enjoy some back story or slowly revealing the story throughout the scene, otherwise it seems like a waste of words. And i don't mean "they were thinking about doing this for a long time", I mean "they had been thinking about it, but Bob was apprehensive. Steve convinced him by..."

Just a small thing, but it's a necessity for me in any porn story.


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## Xadera (May 4, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> I don't see how porn writing is all that much different than regular fiction, to be honest.


 
I agree with that, for the mostpart. I think the main reason I came to want to ask the question is for your reasoning behind "I generally avoid them". So I suppose I should adjust the question to "What is it about porn that causes you to want to avoid them?", besides the subject matter. 



> That said, there is one thing I've noticed in the maybe two porn stories I happened to accidentally agree to critique (I generally avoid them, but sometimes they fall into my lap, you know), and that's the constant and unnecessary use of expletives to refer to body parts. For some reason (beware: sling of bad words coming up), you always see people writing scenes that involve the words ass, dick, pussy, tits, etc., over and over again with little variation. I think it's probably just a lack of imagination or inability to write creative description that does it. I mean, if someone writes, "He shoved his dick into her pussy," I don't find that particularly appealing. You see stuff like that written on stall doors in public bathrooms. Doesn't belong in fiction.


 
That, for example, is what I was hoping to find. I'm sorry if my original post was being too vague, I was having difficulty trying to find the right words : / I would assume that there are many other trends, like these expletives, that are more common in porn, with some being good and some being bad. 

I prefer writing porn for the same reason others might prefer writing mysteries or horrors. Every time I see people complaining about lack of views, porn gets bashed and I wonder why. Those who write crappy porn don't get many views either. Writing good porn can be just as difficult as writing good anything, so I want to cull the trends from my writing that which makes porn "bad". Yet, if it just boils down to "porn gets bashed because nobody really puts effort into it", then I'll just delete this thread.


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## AshleyAshes (May 4, 2009)

Xadera said:


> I agree with that, for the mostpart. I think the main reason I came to want to ask the question is for your reasoning behind "I generally avoid them". So I suppose I should adjust the question to "What is it about porn that causes you to want to avoid them?", besides the subject matter.


 
Cause the only thing worse than a 16yo virgin's Mary Sue action hero fantasy is a 16yo virgin's masturbatory fantasy?


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## Xadera (May 4, 2009)

Oh wow, I didn't expect responses this fast in the writing forum. I finished responding to one and found two others waiting XD



AshleyAshes said:


> Firstly, many who make the attempt seem to playout unrealistic or unbelievable things.


 
Is this beyond fetishes, or some fetishes themselves? Like take inflation, for instance. It is highly unrealistic, so is that as a whole a problem? Or is it when the story plays as realistic, then does something unbelievable like the sex slave becoming a horny zombie after extensive torture? (I think I saw you or someone else mention the latter in another thread)



> Secondly, sex itself is a very repetative act that I think is more fun in real life than in discription. The longer a sex scene is the more the repetative nature shows, so they either need to toss in an absurd laundry list of positions or acts or it gets boring fast. You'd probably encounter the same issue if you attempted to write out several pages of a character playing Halo on Xbox Live. There are only so many ways that you can say 'Then he killed another guy' before people go 'ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT!'
> 
> Of course, that's why I generally think it's easier to not go into such detail of tedious thinks and say 'He played Xbox online... Now, moving on with the plot!'


 
Yeah, I agree. I often try to start the 'scene' and then skip forward, avoiding the repetitious part. Yet, at the same time, I often get comments saying "the sex scene was too short". I'm kinda unsure how to balance this : /



> I enjoy some back story or slowly revealing the story throughout the scene, otherwise it seems like a waste of words. And i don't mean "they were thinking about doing this for a long time", I mean "they had been thinking about it, but Bob was apprehensive. Steve convinced him by..."


 
Thought so. I can't stand the "here's two people going right into sex and that's all you need to know" stories.



> Cause the only thing worse than a 16yo virgin's Mary Sue action hero fantasy is a 16yo virgin's masturbatory fantasy?


 
Yes, actually XD There's threads about avoiding the Mary Sue aspects and none about avoiding the fall into "masturbatory fantasy". I'd like to make my porn better than that. Which I guess would make it more than 'porn', but I'd still like to ellicit arousal, or at least amusement, in what I write. Arousal is an emotion like any other!... I think XD


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## TakeWalker (May 4, 2009)

After some thought, I think that I actually just don't like sex in stories, whether it's incidental or the focus.

This is not _entirely_ true, but I have no idea what the exceptions are.


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## M. LeRenard (May 4, 2009)

> "What is it about porn that causes you to want to avoid them?"


Well, I was mostly referring to critiques of porn, because, frankly, I don't really know how to write one myself, so I don't trust myself to give very valuable advice in a critique.  But I don't read porn anyway just out of personal preference.  I prefer visuals, I suppose.  And anyway, considering how difficult it is to find good writers on this site in particular, something tells me it'd be a while before I found anything that was actually appealing to read, supposing I was just browsing at random.
I'm also a little disenfranchised with what the furry community has been putting out all this time, so I figure if I'm going to support one aspect of it, it shouldn't be the crummy porn aspect.  And before anyone jumps the gun, I'm talking about the fact that a search for 'furry' on Amazon.com brings up about 3 worthwhile story collections, maybe one or two half-way decent books, and the rest a bunch of nonsense published through Lulu regarding one or more of the various fetishes for which we've become so infamous.  I guess I'd rather spend my time reading stuff written by authors who, you know... try.  And it's usually a safe bet that people who write a lot of porn aren't going to be bothered to try, since they've pretty much already found their audience.
I mean (sorry... I'm ranting a little now), even with some of the best artists out there, the folks with degrees who work as illustrators or animators or whatever, they all seem to have an obsession with sex.  You look at some of the more advertised furry comics, and you get stuff like Heathen City, which apparently is all about gay dominatrixes and whatnot, or Blotch's Dog's Days of Summer, which seems to center around a dingo who gets it on with every single person on the beach, none of whom wear any pants.  Stories for these things are either non-existent or are simply there to lead to the sex.  I mean, it's hard to find anything produced by furries that's truly worthwhile, you know?  Many of the writers on this site are fantastic, but few of them have published anything, so outside of the little niche we've got going with the Thursday prompts or whatever they're completely unheard of.  Which is a shame, because that leaves the smut to take up the limelight.
So yeah... I suppose that's why I don't tend to read porn.  Because I'm bitter and cranky.  That, and the instant I see a misplaced comma, I lose all desire.


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## AshleyAshes (May 4, 2009)

Xadera said:


> Is this beyond fetishes, or some fetishes themselves? Like take inflation, for instance. It is highly unrealistic, so is that as a whole a problem? Or is it when the story plays as realistic, then does something unbelievable like the sex slave becoming a horny zombie after extensive torture? (I think I saw you or someone else mention the latter in another thread)


 
For any sort of sexual fetish in furry writing, and I don't mean the simple stuff like 'I like a man in uniform' or such.  But inflation, diapers, vore, that sorta stuff.  When you're writing that you are being blatently self-indulgent and the only people who will appreciate your work will be the people who are into those fetishes themselves.  Everyone else will not look or snicker or think it's lame.

Another weakness in a lot of furry sex stories is the attempt at plot.  It's either straight on fucking or some emo wishy washy crap, they screw in true love and live murrily ever after.



Xadera said:


> Yeah, I agree. I often try to start the 'scene' and then skip forward, avoiding the repetitious part. Yet, at the same time, I often get comments saying "the sex scene was too short". I'm kinda unsure how to balance this : /


The majority of furries have no taste anyway, so screw'em.  If you're not just making wank material and you are attempting a real story that does contain sex scenes, cutting them short and only showing the 'meat' of the act is probably better.  Think 'Red Shoe Diaries', not 'Blonde Sluts Volume 9'

Personally the repetative nature of sex is why I can't write it; I get bored.  I'd rather have emotional people screaming at each other and other drama and plotty goodness. ^^



Xadera said:


> Yes, actually XD There's threads about avoiding the Mary Sue aspects and none about avoiding the fall into "masturbatory fantasy". I'd like to make my porn better than that. Which I guess would make it more than 'porn', but I'd still like to ellicit arousal, or at least amusement, in what I write. Arousal is an emotion like any other!... I think XD


 
I don't think most peoples wank fantasies can make good stories anyway.  Good stories to make other people wank, sure, but if you want people to appreciate it beyind 'THAT WAS HOT.  AWESOME.  WRITE MORE PLZ.' that's not the way to go.

At the same time, this is the furry fandom, insert some cock and the hoard will think it's *brilliant*.

I just don't see how sex scenes are necessary god a good story.  I think sex scenes are just a means to appeal to people who want to read sex scenes, but these arn't necessarily the people who also want a STORY  As I see it, Captian Kirk was an green alien banging man whore but not once did we need to see him in the act to know it.  I'm content to just imply my characters had sex and move on with the story.


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## Xadera (May 5, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> So yeah... I suppose that's why I don't tend to read porn. Because I'm bitter and cranky. That, and the instant I see a misplaced comma, I lose all desire.


 
Well, that puts me in the gutter too, then XD I sometimes have a tendancy to misuse my commas. 

Anyways, I see your point. At a site where things are categorized more by fetish than by genre and the fandom is mostly sexually based (being furry outside of the erotic nature seems to have more unique reasoning per person), it's somewhat granted that non-sexual creations will often be overlooked, with even less towards the writing side since it actually takes some effort to get into. So finding anything "furry" that isn't directed towards children is very difficult. Hence why more of you should take up that niche in the professional industry 



> Just about everything AshleyAshes said


 
There goes all my writing x.x I use the wierd fetishes, try to create a plot behind it all, make 'wank material', etc. Though, I try not to be too self-indulgent about it by doing things that I'm not that into, but how is anything anybody writes _not_ self-indulgent? Unless you're explicitly writing for someone else, I would assume most writers develop stories that pertain to their own interests. I'm not an actual writer though (my degree is in Physics/Philosophy for Pete's sake), so that may not be true. But, it seems that if you're not writing based on your own interests, it's hard to get your heart in the work.

Maybe it's just me, but I see porn as being a fictional genre much like sci-fi, mystery, horror, fantasy, etc. It's produced to explore the things that normally cannot be accessed in reality. Creating a plot based around sexual aspects is akin to creating a plot around a mystery: you determine the focus of the material and develop the world around it. Err... I shouldn't actually be saying that since I don't know, nor am I interested in, how to write a mystery ^^; 

Anyways, in any genre, there will be fans whose only interest is the focus of the material (resulting in the "AWESOME. WRITE MORE PLZ."), despite how well it was developed. Sci-Fi has its Star Trek, Fantasy has its Eragon, Horror has its Scream, Mystery has its... uhh... again, I don't know much about mystery XD There's always the cases of "ugh, that's horrible," yet they will still draw a surprising fanbase. 

And then there are the "greats" for each genre. These are the things that are so well developed (i.e. they're elegant, creative, balanced, intriguing, and so on) that they'll pull people who have never had interest in that genre before. In porn, I suppose it would be aiming to get people interested in new fetishes, becoming open about their sexuality, breaking down taboos, and some other stuff. That would be 'above' your generic wank material. So I guess that's what I'm interested in finding out: how to write "good porn". Not saying I'm anywhere near that yet, mind you, but I would like to find out XD 

Oh, as for sex scenes being a part of a normal story, it might be to help develop the submersion into the plot (sex is a pretty big part of life for many people). Not that I'm trying to do that (quite the other way around, actually), but that is what I would surmise. It's not necessary for a good story, but if written well it can make a good story better.


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## duroc (May 5, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> Because I'm bitter and cranky.



Sorry, I can't stop laughing at that.

Pretty much, I'm in agreement with MLR.

What I think bothers a lot of people about erotica(sorry, I'm not calling it porn) in the fandom is that it has become an easy out for people. 

Let's face it, now that the fandom has exploded on the internet, everybody wants to find a way to participate.  And something I'm starting to hear a lot more of is that, "I write because I can't draw."  That's an insult to writers, because it takes tons of work and effort to come up with a well written story that has an imaginative and well thought out plot with intriguing and original characters.  

That's what makes a story good, whether its erotica or not.

And unfortunately, this mass of people trying to participate have--flooded the market--so to speak.  And now there is tons of bad writing out there in the fandom, and most of it is erotica.  And it gives the genre a bad name.  But like anything else, the cream will rise to the top.

And there are good erotica writers within the fandom.  Poetigress and Kyell Gold write incredibly good erotica stories, but they work hard, put in the effort, and follow the basics of making a good plot, imaginative characters, proper grammar, pacing, word-choice, punctuation, etc., etc.

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, putting in the effort, and working on the basics of writing.  That, some patience, and being passionate about what you do will make your writing good, no matter the genre.


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## Xadera (May 5, 2009)

duroc said:


> Let's face it, now that the fandom has exploded on the internet, everybody wants to find a way to participate. And something I'm starting to hear a lot more of is that, "I write because I can't draw." That's an insult to writers, because it takes tons of work and effort to come up with a well written story that has an imaginative and well thought out plot with intriguing and original characters.


 
Now I feel bad because that's pretty much the reason I started writing erotica XD Though, I already wrote other stuff, it's just that erotica is easier to convey in drawing. It was the only reason I actually entered the fandom : / For everything else I wrote, there was no sense in posting it on FA, but that's way besides the point.

I've never heard of Kyell Gold, but Poetigress definately did her erotica well. I can't actually read most erotica (often not even my own) and Poetigress' were some of the few that I was actually interested in reading to the end. Unfortunately, I'm probably nowhere near that point, so I'm sorry for being one of those "flooding the market" x.x But, I'm trying to work on it!


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## Giorgio Gabriel (May 5, 2009)

Writing in general is a torturous task that takes even more effort than drawing, in my opinion.  You can look at a drawing and see if someone fucked up, it'll be pretty obvious to anyone with working eyeballs in their sockets unless they're willfully ignoring the fuckups.  
Bad writing...can seem good for a short period of time, but then you read a few paragraphs further and realize that the author did not know what the shit he was doing with these characters, or that there was a complete absence of plot whatsoever, or that he completely left the track and jumped off into the thorny bushes of Off-Topic Land.  
Writing seems easy, but what the average self-professed author does not realize is that writing is not merely opening Microsoft Word and vomiting purple prose onto the keyboard for as long as you possibly can.  Renard more or less covered all the bases so I would be nothing short of redundant if I were to go over the pratfalls so commonly found in furry fiction.


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## Xipoid (May 5, 2009)

There's nothing really special to note between standard writing and pornographic materials except the erotica is there to arouse more than just your imagination. Otherwise, it's just fiction (or non-fiction in certain cases). Just about any and every rule that would apply to writing a good story would apply to writing a nice piece of adult content. I would guess there are some erotica specific tips or guidelines to follow, but I am not really well versed in them. I inadvertently limit  my erotica reading to almost none simply because the desire never really crosses my mind.


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## Captain Howdy (May 5, 2009)

Things that kill a story for me:

- Awkward lining or structure (paragraphs broken up, or no paragraphs at all, or huge blocks of text).

- Bad dialogue
- Excessive adjectives or overly worded sentences
- Run on sentences
- Repetitive words (dick dick dick dick dick dick dick)
  - Also lack of "offensive" words (ex: penis, vagina, netherlips, member, shaft, etc.)
- Too short :/ (less then 1000 words)
- Vanilla sex
- Something complex that isn't worded very well, or requires a bunch of think/piecing together to get the image.


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## AshleyAshes (May 5, 2009)

Xadera said:


> There goes all my writing x.x I use the wierd fetishes, try to create a plot behind it all, make 'wank material', etc.


 
Ask yourself this;  Why would anyone who isn't personally interested in the particular fetish(es) have any interest in that story when that fetish is the central element?

At the same time you can use this to appeal to a niche, but if you want to actually be 'respected' for the creative effort that goes your their writing, sex stories isn't the best way to go.  Some could probably pull it off but that list would be very few.

Sex is still an easy sell however.  Furries search up stories and art just based on which species is screwing another species and how.  I strongly believe that few in the fandom have any sense of creative taste.  If you were to write a non-sex story with an attempt at a compelling or interesting plot, you'd have a far more difficult time getting the majority of the fandom to take notice.


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## Xadera (May 5, 2009)

> Everything Lastdirewolf said


 
Thanks a lot for the input ^^ I especially have to work on that last one... I get a little carried away with the complexity XD



AshleyAshes said:


> Ask yourself this; Why would anyone who isn't personally interested in the particular fetish(es) have any interest in that story when that fetish is the central element?


 
Hmm... That's a really good question. I try to make my stuff humorous (drama tends to irk me), so hopefully at the very least the stuff is good for a laugh. The plot's not golden or anywhere close to good, but I'm still working out the other kinks like how to keep track of half a dozen people in an orgy XD Otherwise... I guess one reason some people still read, despite not catering to their fetish, is because either I'll get to their fetishes later, or they're curious as to what bizarre thing will happen next?



> At the same time you can use this to appeal to a niche, but if you want to actually be 'respected' for the creative effort that goes your their writing, sex stories isn't the best way to go. Some could probably pull it off but that list would be very few.
> 
> Sex is still an easy sell however. Furries search up stories and art just based on which species is screwing another species and how. I strongly believe that few in the fandom have any sense of creative taste. If you were to write a non-sex story with an attempt at a compelling or interesting plot, you'd have a far more difficult time getting the majority of the fandom to take notice.


 
I still like the challenge of making a "good" sex story, I'm not too worried about being respected; I've been here for two years and haven't poked my head into the fandom much until recently. It's not like I don't try though, it takes a lot of research and thinking to develop some characters and scenes. Nevertheless, I have been thinking about writing a full non-erotic story, just to see how I measure up XD


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## AshleyAshes (May 5, 2009)

Xadera said:


> Nevertheless, I have been thinking about writing a full non-erotic story, just to see how I measure up XD


 
Now there is a REAL challenge.  'Not Crap And Not Porn' is quite the untapped niche in the furry fandom.  I say run with that.


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## nybx4life (May 5, 2009)

Xadera said:


> I still like the challenge of making a "good" sex story, I'm not too worried about being respected; I've been here for two years and haven't poked my head into the fandom much until recently. It's not like I don't try though, it takes a lot of research and thinking to develop some characters and scenes. Nevertheless, I have been thinking about writing a full non-erotic story, just to see how I measure up XD


 
Yeah, making a "good" sex story is like a mixture of good writing and applying of fetishes. So it's like something that pulls you in, and makes you jerk off at the same time.
Or, it makes you jerk off because it's so good.

Either way, it's possible to write a decent story (with multiple parts maybe) if you can write a plot which had sex riding shotgun (because if it took the driver's seat it loses it value).Maybe not TOO much on the sex, but the feelings about it, and the emotions after.

To respond to one of these other posters, the reason that there isn't much of a lineup of published fetish stories is because erotica or porn stories isn't stuff publishers go for, as far as I've seen (I did my bit of research when I attempted publication for a previous story)


And a question: I'm not good with synonyms, but do anybody know any "creative" terms to say sex parts, like dick and pussy?


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## nybx4life (May 5, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Now there is a REAL challenge. 'Not Crap And Not Porn' is quite the untapped niche in the furry fandom. I say run with that.


 
Just a furry story? Now this would be quite interesting.


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## foozzzball (May 5, 2009)

You all amuse me.

Adding furry elements to the majority of stories really has no point other than _to get furries to read that story_. You have all, at some level, already sold out and now you are complaining because there's an additional audience to be gained by adding in T&A?

Wow.

Oh, and then you have to elevate yourselves above 'those piteous pornmongers' by implying there's something lower class about it and you just won't lower yourselves to _their_ level, too? Or if not that, it's artists. Yup. Writing's so much harder than drawing. Those poor inferior artists.

Of course there are some sane people in this thread, but there is a hell of a lot of pity-partying going on in here.

If nobody's reading your fiction, and you post regularly, it's because your fiction sucks. If your fiction doesn't suck, people will stick around from thing you post to thing you post and, bit by bit, you will accumulate readers.

Quitcherbitchin', ladies and gents. Stop looking for faults in the world, you can't fix those. Look for faults in yourself - those you can fix.


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## AshleyAshes (May 5, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> Adding furry elements to the majority of stories really has no point other than _to get furries to read that story_.


 
Depending on how it's done. I find using the different animal traits interesting in the story, like a different 'flavor', where it's essentially human but you have new or different things ti use and work with along with it. I go into that here; http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=985693&postcount=162





foozzzball said:


> Yup. Writing's so much harder than drawing. Those poor inferior artists.


No, but art has an advantage in presentation. It's visual and can be graded by a person quickly. In two seconds someone can look at a piece of art and know if they like it or if they don't like it. Reading requires an investment of time and effort to even know if it's good or bad that many people arn't willing to make.



foozzzball said:


> Oh, and then you have to elevate yourselves above 'those piteous pornmongers' by implying there's something lower class about it and you just won't lower yourselves to _their_ level, too? Or if not that, it's artists.


 
It's really about the audience.


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## Xadera (May 5, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Now there is a REAL challenge. 'Not Crap And Not Porn' is quite the untapped niche in the furry fandom. I say run with that.


 
LOL. I wouldn't put down porn that much, though. It takes quite a bit of finessing to make such a complex process readable and enjoyable at the same time, especially with some of the more bizarre fetished. But yeah, when something inspires me enough to be fully motivated, I'll try non-porn.



> Yeah, making a "good" sex story is like a mixture of good writing and applying of fetishes. So it's like something that pulls you in, and makes you jerk off at the same time.
> Or, it makes you jerk off because it's so good.


 
A bit blunt, but I'll take it XD



> And a question: I'm not good with synonyms, but do anybody know any "creative" terms to say sex parts, like dick and pussy?


 
It really depends on the mood you're trying to create. Dick and pussy I see as being really vulgar, and thus would be best suited for when things are "really dirty". Penis and vagina are more technical, so they're better used for descriptions rather than during the actual scene. Member and slit can be really vague, allowing you to subtly mention something especially if the character wielding it is shy. Cock and cunt are almost as vulgar as dick and pussy, but they kinda sound more 'kinky' in a way. 

There's also many others. For a penis you can use: rod, phallus, erection, hard-on, etc., all depending on how detailed or 'tongue-in-cheek' you wanna go about it. For a vagina there's: nethers, vulva (though that covers a bit more than just a vagina), arousal (when wet), etc. You can also use the term "sex" for either, with possibly a "male" or "female" adjective tacked on if you're playing with confusing genders, such as "feminine sex". There also many terms for the specific parts, such as "head" and "glans" or "lips" and "labia". You can also get creative and have the characters give their anatomy names XD


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## M. LeRenard (May 5, 2009)

> I find using the different animal traits interesting in the story, like a different 'flavor', where it's essentially human but you have new or different things ti use and work with along with it.


That minority fooz implied would be the folks who go even beyond what you lay out here, and try to remove the human element as much as possible.  If I write furry, this is how I like to work.  It's fun to stick a tail on a person and play around with it, sure, but it takes a lot of work and dedication to actually try to write a believable story from a cat-person's perspective.  A creature with different senses than a human will probably not think like a human, so that could mean changing around common morals, behavior, likes and dislikes... the whole psychology, really.  So the physical traits are only half the story.
And in the mainstream market, this seems to be more what you as a furry writer have to do to get anyone to respect you (aside from writing children's fiction, I suppose).  If you just claim your main character is a hyena, occasionally reference his big ears and barking laugh, and leave it at that, any non-furry reader is just going to be confused.  I think that's what foozzzball is saying.


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## Giorgio Gabriel (May 5, 2009)

Xadera said:


> There's also many others. For a penis you can use: rod, phallus, erection, hard-on, etc., all depending on how detailed or 'tongue-in-cheek' you wanna go about it. For a vagina there's: nethers, vulva (though that covers a bit more than just a vagina), arousal (when wet), etc. You can also use the term "sex" for either, with possibly a "male" or "female" adjective tacked on if you're playing with confusing genders, such as "feminine sex". There also many terms for the specific parts, such as "head" and "glans" or "lips" and "labia". You can also get creative and have the characters give their anatomy names XD




This is how you end up with lovely purple prose that describes aroused female genitalia as being the BLOSSOMING OF AN EROTIC ROSE WITH DEW-SLICK PETALS and then I close the window and vomit a few times.


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## AshleyAshes (May 5, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> That minority fooz implied would be the folks who go even beyond what you lay out here, and try to remove the human element as much as possible. If I write furry, this is how I like to work. It's fun to stick a tail on a person and play around with it, sure, but it takes a lot of work and dedication to actually try to write a believable story from a cat-person's perspective.


 
I conceed that no one outside of the furry fandom would care about furry fiction.  There will never be a great 'Furry Novel' next to the other best sellers at Chapters or Coles.  However I think that furry writing can be more than saying 'paws' instead of 'hands' and name dropping species.


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## Xadera (May 5, 2009)

Giorgio Gabriel said:


> This is how you end up with lovely purple prose that describes aroused female genitalia as being the BLOSSOMING OF AN EROTIC ROSE WITH DEW-SLICK PETALS and then I close the window and vomit a few times.


 
Better than saying "pussy" or "cunt" for the 20th time in a row  Though, I'm kinda unsure how what I said escalates to that level XD "Feminine sex" is often helpful when you've got a hermaphrodite and it's good to balance the usage of "cock" with something a little lighter. Other than that... wat?


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## foozzzball (May 6, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Depending on how it's done. I find using the different animal traits interesting in the story, like a different 'flavor', where it's essentially human but you have new or different things ti use and work with along with it. I go into that here; http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=985693&postcount=162



But what kind of stories are you writing? From the sounds of it it doesn't matter whether or not the characters are furry, you're just writing _really detailed_ furry characters in stories that are quite normal. This is, I note, an unfair assessment because I haven't read any of your work - but the point is, it doesn't matter how many fleas you give your furry character if they're still going to be in regular stories about regular people. It's still adding in furries so furries will read the damn thing.




> No, but art has an advantage in presentation. It's visual and can be graded by a person quickly. In two seconds someone can look at a piece of art and know if they like it or if they don't like it. Reading requires an investment of time and effort to even know if it's good or bad that many people arn't willing to make.


This is true, what I call the 'every reader must now read the slush pile' issue, but you're still bitching in a way which is unkind to artists. Particularly because there are many, many artists who also disappear into the slushpile. Yes, art can be graded by people quickly - unfortunately on FA a piece of art remains on the front page for one or two minutes at most. There are a lot of really good artists out there who are virtual unknowns. You are not all that much likely to have the fan-fairy come along and apply large doses of appreciation to you if you're an artist.



> It's really about the audience.


Bull. By making that value judgement you're implying that selling out to those pervs is somehow 'bad', some 'easy path to success that is below you'. This statement implies to me that a writer who'd write for that audience is somehow not a writer at all.




M. Le Renard said:


> That minority fooz implied would be the folks who go even beyond what you lay out here, and try to remove the human element as much as possible. If I write furry, this is how I like to work. It's fun to stick a tail on a person and play around with it, sure, but it takes a lot of work and dedication to actually try to write a believable story from a cat-person's perspective. A creature with different senses than a human will probably not think like a human, so that could mean changing around common morals, behavior, likes and dislikes... the whole psychology, really. So the physical traits are only half the story.
> And in the mainstream market, this seems to be more what you as a furry writer have to do to get anyone to respect you (aside from writing children's fiction, I suppose). If you just claim your main character is a hyena, occasionally reference his big ears and barking laugh, and leave it at that, any non-furry reader is just going to be confused. I think that's what foozzzball is saying.



I'm also saying there has to be a reason. If it's just Romeo and Juliet told with an unusual fixation on scents, Blah. If it's Romeo and Juliet told between a family of prey and a family of predators and that angle is used to completely change the contexts of every exchange and all, it's possibly less blah. Ideally it shouldn't be Romeo and Juliet at all but some new, different tale of star-crossed lovers parted for some reason, maybe predator/prey, which is intrinsic to furry rather than anything else with something other than the 'Oh we'll just have contemporary society with people in clothes who are furry. ^^' setting, regardless of how detailed their fleas are.





AshleyAshes said:


> I conceed that no one outside of the furry fandom would care about furry fiction. There will never be a great 'Furry Novel' next to the other best sellers at Chapters or Coles. However I think that furry writing can be more than saying 'paws' instead of 'hands' and name dropping species.



What the bloody hell do you think 'Watership Down' was? How about Black Beauty, White Fang, or Wind in the Willows? What about David Brin's 'Uplift' stories, which were mainly sidelined off the bestsellers because it was sci-fi rather than something with furry elements?

Furry fiction can be a whole lot more than saying 'hands' instead of 'paws' and writing tightly detailed and heavily anthropomorphised characters who are anything but human, you know.


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## AshleyAshes (May 6, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> But what kind of stories are you writing? From the sounds of it it doesn't matter whether or not the characters are furry, you're just writing _really detailed_ furry characters in stories that are quite normal. This is, I note, an unfair assessment because I haven't read any of your work - but the point is, it doesn't matter how many fleas you give your furry character if they're still going to be in regular stories about regular people. It's still adding in furries so furries will read the damn thing.


 
No, I pepper the 'furry traits' in, trying not to over do it or underdo it. Cause if you underdo it it stop being furry at all and if you over do it, 'We get it, he has fur. STOP FUCKING DISCRIBING IT'.

I admit that with writing it's true. With art or animation you could far, far, FAR more easily present 'furry' to a broader audience without much difficulty. My setting is contemporary and while some changes would be necessary I could shift all the characters into human characters without much difficulty. However the little furry considderations that add depth to the setting are actually my favorite part of furry. I get a kick out of musing over the potential issues and how it would be different, what different elements there would be, and, well that stuff I listed in that other post I linked basicly. It's fun. I write furry because I want to play with those traits when I can. I have a bigger list of 'considderations' in my head then I've ever applied to any story, since I can't just jam it in there but have to apply it reasonably. In that, I'd say 'furry' is a genre. Science fiction, fantasy, historical fiction, modern settings, noir, all these genres can be used as a vehicle to tell a similar story or send a similar message. I think furry is just another genre like that, albeit a tiny little niche genre in comparison.



foozzzball said:


> Bull. By making that value judgement you're implying that selling out to those pervs is somehow 'bad', some 'easy path to success that is below you'. This statement implies to me that a writer who'd write for that audience is somehow not a writer at all.


 
Not exclusively but I believe that yes it can be. That some artists and writers would could some really awesome stuff and elaborately detailed scenes realize the truth of the furry fandom. 'Cocks = Page Views'. You can throw in dicks or porn and artifically boost the attention it will get reguardless of how well it is actually made. At the same time, I conceed that it's the conten that the furry fandom largely demands, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

At the same time, because of this, I think that 'Not crap and not porn' is an under exploited niche in the fandom. There's some good stuff out there and there's also good porn out there, but there's an oversaturation of porn. As far as I'm concerned, putting ligitimate effort into something that isn't porn is thinking outside of the box at this point. I just wish there were more comics in the same league as Blacksad.



> What the bloody hell do you think 'Watership Down' was? How about Black Beauty, White Fang, or Wind in the Willows? What about David Brin's 'Uplift' stories, which were mainly sidelined off the bestsellers because it was sci-fi rather than something with furry elements?


 
I just don't think that featuring anthropomorphic animals necessarily makes it 'furry'.  Which is also why I say there is almost no 'mainstream furry media', I don't count children's television shows and movies with talking animals to be necessary furry.  Not that I discount those works as having any quality I just don't catagorize them as 'furry'.


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## foozzzball (May 6, 2009)

Now you are amusing me in the bad way.

All those genres you mention are _not_ vehicles to tell similar stories or send similar messages. The genres you mention are, for the most part, genres of style, not of plot. They are not vehicles at all, they are set dressing. Go read up on Bat Durstons and Space Westerns and you will possibly understand why applying furry set dressing to your contempory fiction is a cop-out. It's writing a furry thing so furries will read it, just like how dressing up your cowboys in space-suits is so science fiction fans will read your western.

Your views on porn/not porn/not crap/crap is remarkably limited. 'Porn artificially boosts attention'? 'Everything is porn'? I'm sorry, these are just sorry-ass excuses for reasons why your (this is the general 'you', being everyone who trots out this argument, and you, AA, are just the latest in a _long_ string of them. If this is unusually vitriolic it is because I have been repressing a lot of 'Grrr!' over this.) fiction is ignored. You get to buffer your ego with the idea that the reason nobody pays you any attention is that you are cutting some brave new path into uncharted waters where sex is cast aside and ignored. This is bullshit. If you _really_ thought sex was the path to success you'd be churning out porn by the bucketload of spooge.

No. It's a convenient little excuse for you. It's a way to look upon the cum-soaked masses and go, 'You know what? It's easier for me to believe I am a fantastic author  if I draw a line in the sand and claim that everything over on that side - the sex - is a sign of depravity and bullshit. Over on THIS side of the line I write really well.' 

Writers have the most shocking habit of propping up their egos on whatever the hell is at hand, leaning on pornographic or erotic material is just another cheap method to do so. Quit it.

If you want to attack pornography, don't lean on the 'Oh it gets more attention' lark, lean on the issues that _matter_. Namely that the plot gets pushed to one side in favour of the action scenes and that's a pitfall to avoid.

Finally.



> I just don't think that featuring anthropomorphic animals necessarily makes it 'furry'. Which is also why I say there is almost no 'mainstream furry media', I don't count children's television shows and movies with talking animals to be necessary furry. Not that I discount those works as having any quality I just don't catagorize them as 'furry'.



I am laughing my ass off at you. Please explain what is furry, if not Watership Down, or Talespin, or Bugs Bunny, or Peter Rabbit.


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## AshleyAshes (May 6, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> Go read up on Bat Durstons and Space Westerns and you will possibly understand why applying furry set dressing to your contempory fiction is a cop-out.


 
I actually just self-depreciativly call the reason I do furry as 'Stupid fanboyism', but copout might work too. 



foozzzball said:


> Your views on porn/not porn/not crap/crap is remarkably limited. 'Porn artificially boosts attention'? 'Everything is porn'? I'm sorry, these are just sorry-ass excuses for reasons why your (this is the general 'you', being everyone who trots out this argument, and you, AA, are just the latest in a _long_ string of them. If this is unusually vitriolic it is because I have been repressing a lot of 'Grrr!' over this.) fiction is ignored.


 
But I havn't complained that my fiction is ignored, have I?   It's actually my general complaint as a viewer of furry art.  Personally I don't even read much furry fiction because even I can't much be assed to invest the effort to read and figure out what's crap and what's worth reading more into.  I figure that if I'm not writing porn people won't look to anything I write for that reason and most others probably arn't reading it for the same reason I'm not reading most other stuff. 




foozzzball said:


> You get to buffer your ego with the idea that the reason nobody pays you any attention is that you are cutting some brave new path into uncharted waters where sex is cast aside and ignored.


 
Isn't if frightening that 'People not screwing' could even be ligitimately considdered unchartered waters in the furry fandom? 



foozzzball said:


> I am laughing my ass off at you. Please explain what is furry, if not Watership Down, or Talespin, or Bugs Bunny, or Peter Rabbit.


 
It's my own definition of what 'furry' is and I don't force it onto others.  When if someone were to ask me what 'furry media' is I wouldn't be listing off cartoons aimed at children.  To me, 'furry' is taking that childish concept of anthropomorphic animals that exploded in the 80s and growing it up.  Taking it more serious and dramatically then it was when it was for the kids.  Kinda like when comic books got far more serious from about the mid-late 80's onward.  That's what furry is to me.  Blacksad is furry to me but King Fu Panda is just children's computer animation.  I just think that not everything from an animals point of view or featuring talking animals needs to be appropriated for the fandom as it's own.


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## foozzzball (May 6, 2009)

The trouble is that by complaining about 'sex is popular', the inevitable conclusion is that you're doing it because you feel sidelined. I honestly don't see a reason to complain about it otherwise. 

Also, 'People not screwing' hasn't ever been uncharted waters in the fandom. Sorry. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say that early on, 'people screwing' was uncharted waters, period. And then stuff like Omaha the Cat Dancer came along, charted those waters, and plotted a course for the rest of us.

Prudery for the sake of prudery, too, is well-trodden ground. The burned furs thing is more than ten years old now. 

As for your definitions... yeah. That's kind of hilarious. Particularly the Blacksad thing. Blacksad is furry, alright, but it lies on the edge, along with material like Talespin and Ducktales, because there isn't any functional reason that's material to the plot or the setting for there to be furry material. You're basically hashing together something similar to the 'Oh it's not furry, it's _anthro_' crowd, which is going with a complete random pick and mix to try and say that 'this thing with talking animals is MORE talking animals than this thing over here with talking animals.'

The second you divorce this stuff from material like Peter Rabbit, Black Beauty, and start going on about 'what's in the fandom', is the moment you sideline _yourself_ away from the fandom. People who are interested in the Furry Fandom adore movies like Bolt and Ratatouille and Kung Fu Panda for some fairly obvious reasons. Namely... it's of interest to furries.

Going with this 'we don't need to appropriate it to the fandom as it's own' arguement, why the heck do you pick Blacksad as furry? It's got nothing to do with the fandom whatsoever. It's from a completely different artistic and cultural tradition, we ain't never been involved.


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## M. LeRenard (May 6, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:
			
		

> Isn't if frightening that 'People not screwing' could even be ligitimately considdered unchartered waters in the furry fandom?


It would be if it were true, but it's not true.  I just did hit browse and counted that there were 13/24 submissions without red borders.  If that's in any way representative (which I believe it is), it's really more like half and half porn/'people not screwing' ratio.  In which case, these waters have been charted by about a million different people.
This is the same for artwork, actually.  There's a perception that the site is totally inundated with pornography, but site statistics show that it's actually more like only 35% to 45% or so (less than half).
And while crummy porn will get you more views than crummy fantasy, for example, you'll get exactly the same amount of respect from your viewers, which is to say, very little.  Again, I think it comes down to good versus bad writing, rather than any kind of genre divisions.  Remember... you don't actually know how many of those people who clicked your work went through and read it.



> There will never be a great 'Furry Novel' next to the other best sellers at Chapters or Coles.


I don't think that's true.  I mean, unless your definition of a 'furry novel' is like the kind of stuff you write, which is to say, regular people doing regular things who just happen to be talking animals.  But now we're just getting into semantics, which is always a slippery slope.



			
				foozzzball said:
			
		

> I am laughing my ass off at you. Please explain what is furry, if not Watership Down, or Talespin, or Bugs Bunny, or Peter Rabbit.


People have debated this a lot in other forums.  Turns out, a lot don't consider anything currently mainstream as 'furry', which would include all of the above-mentioned.  I think it might be a limiting factor.  Because where do you stop, right?  Aesop's fables?  The Egyptian pantheon?  It just seems wrong to call some of these things 'furry', I guess.


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## AshleyAshes (May 6, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> The trouble is that by complaining about 'sex is popular', the inevitable conclusion is that you're doing it because you feel sidelined. I honestly don't see a reason to complain about it otherwise.


 
Maybe because I have the deepest, darkest, furry fetish of them all; A fetish for 'Plot' and I find it goes woefully unfullfilled? 



foozzzball said:


> Also, 'People not screwing' hasn't ever been uncharted waters in the fandom. Sorry. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say that early on, 'people screwing' was uncharted waters, period. And then stuff like Omaha the Cat Dancer came along, charted those waters, and plotted a course for the rest of us.


 
Omaha had plenty of plot though.  It was far, far more tame then what's produced currently.  It was actually, ya know, good.  It had a real solid plot and if you were going in for just wank material it was gonna leave you underwhelmed.



foozzzball said:


> Prudery for the sake of prudery, too, is well-trodden ground. The burned furs thing is more than ten years old now.


 
Yeah, I'm a prude cause I think there's a serious lack of material in the furry fandom that is both quality and not pornograhic.  I need to write up an axiom involving Burned Furs akin to Godwin's law.  Really.  No, I'm not a prude, I consume pornography, there's furry porn on my computer in places.  The issue is when I want to find some 'Not porn' that is also well made I run into a shortage REAL quick.  Even finding furry comics that arn't trite or pornograhic is difficult.  (Man, what's one gotta do to get more issues of Circles? :O).  It's like if every channel on the TV was suddenly pornorgraphy, at first it's like 'Woohoo!' but it runs a little thin after a while.  Eventually you just want to watch Friends or maybe an action movie and you flip around and you realize that with a few examples the only things that arn't porn are the crappy public access shows.


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## foozzzball (May 6, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Maybe because I have the deepest, darkest, furry fetish of them all; A fetish for 'Plot' and I find it goes woefully unfullfilled?



Still smacks of superiority. Why? Well...



> Yeah, I'm a prude cause I think there's a serious lack of material in the furry fandom that is both quality and not pornograhic.  I need to write up an axiom involving Burned Furs akin to Godwin's law.  Really.  No, I'm not a prude, I consume pornography, there's furry porn on my computer in places.  The issue is when I want to find some 'Not porn' that is also well made I run into a shortage REAL quick.  Even finding furry comics that arn't trite or pornograhic is difficult.  (Man, what's one gotta do to get more issues of Circles? :O).  It's like if every channel on the TV was suddenly pornorgraphy, at first it's like 'Woohoo!' but it runs a little thin after a while.  Eventually you just want to watch Friends or maybe an action movie and you flip around and you realize that with a few examples the only things that arn't porn are the crappy public access shows.



So. You haven't seen the the threads stickied at the top of this forum? Duroc clearly puts no effort whatsoever into Reccomended Reading, so that's well missed. And Sofawolf Press must be kicking themselves for publishing shovelfuls of low quality hack writing. Then of course the Ursa Majors must routinely highlight trash unloved by anyone, and the quarterly Anthrofiction thing must be godawful... oh, hey, and Anthrozine.com must be pretty well known for putting out utter dreck, too!

Get off your high horse, seriously. There's a lot of good fiction out there and people _are_ pointing at it all the time.


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## AshleyAshes (May 6, 2009)

Have you noticed how you say writing and fiction but I use terms that refer broadly to all media in the fandom, and even primarily focus on art? 

Not to mention you are largely pointing out exceptions to the rule. When I say 'most' you seem to read it as 'all' and respond in kind.

That and the Ursa Majors are a joke, in that it's actually entirely predictable as to what will win or even be nominated because there's so little even worth considdering.


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## Poetigress (May 6, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> I think there's a serious lack of material in the furry fandom that is both quality and not pornograhic.



I've stayed out of this thread because I find a lot of these debates repetitive and incredibly tiresome these days (especially the semantic issue of what's "furry" and what isn't), but I'll just say this.  

There is plenty of material (visual art, text, and otherwise) in the furry fandom that is quality and not pornographic. Just because it may be difficult to find doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If you want to write or draw good general-audience furry material, great. Do it. There'll be an audience for it. If you want to write or draw erotic work for its own sake (not out of an effort to be popular or get eyes on your work), that's great, too. Artists should produce what they're driven to create, not simply what they think others are going to want. But I'm amused that you seem to feel like so few people in the fandom have tried (let alone succeeded) to write or draw quality non-erotic work. Artists and writers in the fandom -- big names, unknowns, everybody in between -- have been doing it for years. Those waters aren't as uncharted as you think they are.


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## Xadera (May 6, 2009)

Okay, okay, I think the arguing has, for the mostpart, peetered out now, so we can move on. Though I do want to say one thing about:



AshleyAshes said:


> there's a serious lack of material in the furry fandom that is both quality and not pornograhic.


 
I think you could drop the latter portion of that qualifier and still be true XD I don't see too much pornography that has quality, so that could be considered "uncharted territory" as well by that argument.

Anyways, rolling back to the initial topic:



			
				M. Le Renard said:
			
		

> Again, I think it comes down to good versus bad writing, rather than any kind of genre divisions.


 
I'll agree that's true for general writing, but aren't there specific qualities to each genre that you'd want to look out for? For some reason, I still want to bring up mystery, despite my lack of expertise with it, but nevertheless... In a mystery, you need to make the solution subtle enough so the reader doesn't guess it too early, or else the story ends up falling short. The generic rule would be "you have to build up the climax or else it won't feel climactic", but with mystery it's good to give bits and pieces of the climax ahead of time to give the reader a chance to 'feel smart' because they had an inkling to the solution before it was clearly given to them. 

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs XD 

Taken to the erotica genre (where sex is the focus), the generic rule of "gauge the language to the mood" would be a bit more emphasized than most other genres. Or, that you may have to segment longer stories a bit more to allow the reader to "recharge". Porn can be equivalent to a high-intensity action scene in that case, where you have to vary the level of action to the reader's amount of adrenaline. Also, in a mystery you can keep the 'intensity level' low for a long time, slowly building up the anticipation, while in erotica there is far less time for the build-up due to physical restraints on the user. Essentially, with porn the reader will usually become fatigued by the anticipation quicker than they would with a mystery.

This could all be bullshit XD I'm just going by what I do when I read anything, in that I look for qualities in a story - that are specific to each genre - in order to find that story "good". 

Plus, I like how nbyx4life asked "I'm not good with synonyms, but do anybody know any "creative" terms to say sex parts, like dick and pussy?" There's not many threads for discussion like that around here, despite the supposed amount of pornographic writing that floats around. Even the normal writers could use the help for their small sex-scenes XD


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## nybx4life (May 6, 2009)

Xadera said:


> Anyways, rolling back to the initial topic:
> 
> I'll agree that's true for general writing, but aren't there specific qualities to each genre that you'd want to look out for? For some reason, I still want to bring up mystery, despite my lack of expertise with it, but nevertheless... In a mystery, you need to make the solution subtle enough so the reader doesn't guess it too early, or else the story ends up falling short. The generic rule would be "you have to build up the climax or else it won't feel climactic", but with mystery it's good to give bits and pieces of the climax ahead of time to give the reader a chance to 'feel smart' because they had an inkling to the solution before it was clearly given to them.
> 
> ...


 
Nice to get some respect/admiration, even if it is small and for something anybody else could've done before me.
As it is, you have been on the ball when you mention things like the type of flow, or amount of action comes and goes when.

I remember a mystery/fetish story before, where a detective investigates a series of events where girls get their busts inflated. It builds up with how the detective guy looks around for clues, it rises up more with the sex, drops a bit more as he pieces it all together, and then it rises to climax as the true criminal is discovered.

To me, yes, that is good pornographic fiction(DA seems to get the good draft picks on writers, don't they?). A type of story where it pulls you in, where sex is included and goes into detail but doesn't take the role as the story's pocket ace, and it ends of alright.

So, like the other guy said before, it's all on good writing and bad writing. You write good, and you add sex/fetish stuff in, it'll become a good porn story.


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