# Top 5 Feminist Fails



## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

The way #3 was done had me rolling XD


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## inactive (Apr 8, 2016)

I'm fairly offended - I guess that's the point of this thread?


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> I'm fairly offended - I guess that's the point of this thread?


Well, not really.
The point is to draw attention to the general idiocy of feminists, and give a pre-established collection of examples to that effect.


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## Simo (Apr 8, 2016)

She's hot.

Pulitzer Prize.

Men, need to listen:


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## Simo (Apr 8, 2016)

And...


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Well, not really.
> The point is to draw attention to the general idiocy of feminists, and give a pre-established collection of examples to that effect.



But true feminism isn't stupid? So I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, maybe if it was properly titled, perhaps Top 5 wrong interpretations of feminism would be better.


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## Simo (Apr 8, 2016)

If only we could have an honest conversation. Did you not even listen to one line of those poems?

Don't bug be, me, don't seem polite, the way women are talked about here. Like some kinda enemy. And I'm scares of 'em, like their cunt's got teeth.  I'm scared, but I ain't gonna attack em.


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## Simo (Apr 8, 2016)

And I will add: Good manners cost nothing.

I get so sick of all this, Donald Trump, and the like.

All this acrimony: makes me sad, this skunk does.


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## -Sliqq- (Apr 8, 2016)

Damn, now I feel more useless after what Milo said...

#MenLivesDontMatter


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## Somnium (Apr 8, 2016)

women.. nuff said


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## SodaBubbles (Apr 8, 2016)

Somnium said:


> women.. nuff said



Bullshit. I'm a woman, come at me bro


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

I will concede to #2 being kinda whack, and #3 being racist (I just found it funny how they did it)...
The feminist movement is made up mostly of people who demand equal rights one second, then turn around and demand special treatment when they feel like getting away with something.  Rape is a wonderful example.  They demand special treatment, saying that due process should just be thrown out the window, and the police should just believe whatever it is that comes out of the woman's mouth without anything to substantiate it.  



Another wonderful example would be assault.  Equal rights and all that good shit, right up till they wanna hit a dude.  At THAT point, they demand special treatment, and they just assume that they're gonna get it.  THANKFULLY, there are men who really don't care and put such women in their place.  



Now, the rest of feminism is made up of women who spend their defending the movement in it's entirety, saying that this isn't actually what feminism is about.
They often say that feminism isn't based solely around the rights of women, but the rights of EVERYONE.  Those of gays, trans, women, blacks, hispanics, the list goes on.  EVERYONE.  One problem with this is that, there are already well established movements FOR all of these causes.  What's more is that they don't try and bleed into one another.  The gay rights movement doesn't pretend to be the black rights movement, or even the women's rights movement.  A member of one is likely to support another as well, and the movements may have corresponding view points and may even march or protest or have a bake sale together, but they are.  Separate.  Standing united, but separate.  What I mean by this, is they essentially stand united under a single, all-encompassing banner:  The Equal Rights movement.  Equal Rights means equal rights, for everyone, period. A problem with feminism is that while some of it's members declare that the movement isn't geared specifically towards the rights of women, their actions SCREAM otherwise.  Most of what they ever talk about would be?  Right.  Woman's rights.  Why might this be something of an issue?  Well it MIGHT have something to do with the fact that, at some point, some female supremacist twats took it upon themselves to begin an "equality" movement whose interests were rooted SOLELY in the rights of a rather specific group of people, and decided that their very NAME should reflect this.  So lets step back.
Feminism.____________________________________________________________________________________________
Equal Rights.__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Feel free to fill in the blanks there to tell me what each name conveys, and how it corresponds with the people IN each respective movement.
Now, I will concede to the idea that feminists may have not ALWAYS been female supremacist twats, but I don't really think that matters.   I say that because the face and the general direction of any given movement may well change with the people that make UP that movement.  Which is to say, the movement is the people, and the people are the movement.  We've gone from people like Martin Luther King Jr. leading peaceful rallies and marches, to Black Lives Matter, marching into a college library (a place of learning, which they obviously aren't interested in) and verbally assaulting those inside who were trying to study, and disrupting said studies.  Then later went on to demand racial segregation, albeit on a small scale.  We've gone from people like Susan B. Anthony, to people like Anita Sarkeesian.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Somnium said:


> women.. nuff said


List of reasons why I'm gay.
#1...   xD


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> But true feminism isn't stupid? So I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is, maybe if it was properly titled, perhaps Top 5 wrong interpretations of feminism would be better.


A movement it'self cannot be good or bad, because, as I said in my long-winded response, the movement is the people and the people are the movement.  Feminism way back when isn't the feminism of today, because the people are different.  They're demanding different things, and they're taking the movement in a completely different direction.  Simply advocating women's rights does NOT make me a feminist, however, if you advocate stripping men of their rights when an unsubstantiated claim of rape is made against them, you might be a feminist.  If you advocate that women can hit men, but men can't hit women, even in self-defense, you might be a feminist.  And if SOMEHOW you identify as a feminist but DON'T advocate such things, get out.  You're in the minority, join the real world, it's where you belong.


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## SodaBubbles (Apr 8, 2016)

Y'all are talking about specific women, not all women.

@Lasvicus list of reasons you're gay: #1 you're gay

don't perpetuate


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

SodaBubbles said:


> Y'all are talking about specific women, not all women.
> 
> @Lasvicus list of reasons you're gay: #1 you're gay
> 
> don't perpetuate


And most woman DON'T identify as feminists, if that tells you anything.
So this conversation was NEVER about women, it was about feminists, who are FORTUNATELY a minority in and of themselves.  I honestly don't know WHAT I'd do if there were more of them.
And please, stay out of the joke.  Because that's what it was.  It wasn't perpetuating anything.
So contribute or move along.


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## Somnium (Apr 8, 2016)

SodaBubbles said:


> Bullshit. I'm a woman, come at me bro



Are you lost? Go back to the kitchen, woman!


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## SodaBubbles (Apr 8, 2016)

@Lasvicus LOL calm down there son, so I missed the joke. LOOK I GET IT NOW WE'RE JOKING YAY

Lost, @Somnium ? I live in the kitchen bro. How else I make pancakes?


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

SodaBubbles said:


> @Lasvicus LOL calm down there son, so I missed the joke. LOOK I GET IT NOW WE'RE JOKING YAY
> 
> Lost, @Somnium ? I live in the kitchen bro. How else I make pancakes?


I feel like if I say that I am calm, I'll look like one of them niggas be like" I'm calm I'm calm...  *tries and fails to punch you*"
But I am  xD  Calm, I mean.


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## SodaBubbles (Apr 8, 2016)

haha don't worry, I know how that is.

But yeah, sorry the joke went over my head! LOL


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

I can understand your points and I don't speak at all for all women (which Is one of the problems of false feminism throughout the ages). But I feel the reason that most women don't identify as feminists is because of negative early childhood manipulation. Many of us from early on as taught that certain behaviours and having certain thoughts would be a deterrent for men, I'd be like constantly spraying yourself with max repel and wondering where all the pokemon went. One situation I remember quite clearly was from when I was 9 and I saw a couple outside and the woman was very verbal and obviously very upset. My mom leans over and says "Now she's gonna be upset if he hauls off and slaps her for disrespecting him." I don't remember my response but whatever it was it was enough to get a lecture on why its not okay for a woman to yell at a man.

Now I had enough sense to know that that was bullshit (not that I go around yelling at anyone, man or woman, not my bag) but other things my mother imprinted on me and her mother imprinted on her stuck and I'm working on trying to erase these intrusive and negative teachings. Things like all women are threats to finding a good guy, or that men will only like me if I'm as smooth as a dolphin everywhere save for my head and eyebrows. While these things were taught to me by women undoubtedly that started as something that came out of a man's mouth. Now somewhere along the line feminism got misconstrued as a threat to masculinity in which dudes promptly said "we don't want women taking our penises in a way that is not pleasurable to us" and then suddenly feminism was a 'bad thing' according to men and all those easily manipulated girls in their formative years  and women who are set in their ways jumped on the band wagon.

Now a far as feminism being I want to hit men without reciprocation that's ludicrous, nobody would be hitting anyone, why is this even as issue? Although this is why I need feminism because 4000 women die a year from domestic violence, I'm sure there are same-sex couples in there but I'll bet you my right kidney(the better one), that the majority is heterosexual couples.

But what about the men? We get hit and raped too and women don't caaaaaaaare! Hell yeah we care, but men made it difficult for themselves. By making us the 'weaker' sex and perpetuating masculinity as being physically strong you've created a society where being assaulted by a woman as a man is seen as  a joke. Also the Boys Club of America™* made it so men can't be raped by a woman because all real dudes want pussy all the time and being raped by a man now makes you crave cocks! Congratulations! You played yourself!

I do identify as a feminist, and this is what it means to me, a stripping of what is considered to be traditionally male and female roles, an end to adult and sexual violence for everyone, equal pay, men staying the hell out of my uterus unless I invited you there, and everyone minding their damn business about how I express my femininity.

What I mean by that last point is that if I, emphasis on the I, define MY femininity as staying home and cooking and cleaning for my male partner that doesn't make me any less of a feminist than the woman who is in the workforce breaking down barriers. As long as we support each other there shouldnt be an issue which is where women as muddying feminism by believing every woman wants to turn society on it's head and beat men into submission, no we just want the equal opportunity without the ridicule. And to stop being murdered, we want that a lot.

Now a bit off topic but as a black woman I have to respond to your to your but about the #blacklivesmatter movement. Most protests are still peaceful, but they're killing us at an alarming rate and getting away with it and we're scared. I've been conditioned over the years to stand a certain way, smile always, speak a certain way, censor what I do and say, make myself as non-threatening as possible because of the color of my skin. I went to a town where people proudly displayed the confederate flag and a 6 foot tall man looked visibly scared and avoided me because I'm black. I've walked down the streets of Philly and been called a n*gger, I've overheard the comment "what a waste of a good man" because my partner happens to be white. I'm doubly afraid of going places by myself because I'm a woman and I'm black, there are states I don't think n I'd ever set foot in because of the marked racism. There are bad eggs in the movement but I think we have a right to be angry and while I don't advocate violence I don't see how people can get their titties in a twist when we fight back when other attacked first.

*Feminism Is a global issue, sorry to all the people I offended and excluded with this name

** on mobile, sorry for any typos and autocorrect


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## Wolveon (Apr 8, 2016)

Hard to narrow it down to a "Top 5", there's a lot to pick from.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Wolveon said:


> Hard to narrow it down to a "Top 5", there's a lot to pick from.


Seriously xD
I just used a video that someone else had already made, and used the title thereof.


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## Chris-py (Apr 8, 2016)

How about women are equal to men, deserve equal pay, and should have as much or more access to healthcare than men have. 

Who run the world? Girls.
This trans man knows what's up. Shieeeet


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Chris-py said:


> How about womenbequal to men, deserve equal pay, and should have as much or more access to healthcare than men have.
> 
> Who run the world? Girls.
> This trans man knows what's up. Shieeeet


Believing that women are equal and should be treated as such doesn't make you a feminist.  I believe these things, and I detest feminism.


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## Chris-py (Apr 8, 2016)

I never said I was a feminist? I believe in pie for everyone.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Chris-py said:


> I never said I was a feminist? I believe in pie for everyone.


Ah, I misunderstood what you said then?  My apologies.


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## Chris-py (Apr 8, 2016)

You are lucky that I tolerate you Florida.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Chris-py said:


> You are lucky that I tolerate you Florida.


Quite lucky indeed ;D


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## inactive (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Believing that women are equal and should be treated as such doesn't make you a feminist.



Uh, citation needed?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

@tranceguy 
Believing that African Americans are equal and should be treated as such doesn't make me a supporter of Black Lives Matter.
Believing women are equal and should be treated as such doesn't make me a supporter of feminism.
So please, for the love of God.  Shut the FUCK up.


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## inactive (Apr 8, 2016)

Seems like semantics to me. What matters is what you believe, not what you want to call it. (And I have no problem with your beliefs, personally, if you believe that people of different sexes/genders should have equal rights.)

Sorry you're upset. Maybe you shouldn't make a thread with a poll telling people who don't agree with your perspective to "drop dead" if you can't handle a negative response from anyone.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Except you took it upon yourself to make a post, dictating to me that I AM a feminist.  I GENUINELY consider this an insult, and it runs counter to the statement you're making now in saying that what you call it doesn't matter. You yourself tried to pin a uniquely offensive label on me, so please, pick a direction and stick with it or shut your trap.  And yes, please, feminists everywhere.  Drop dead.


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## Acidwrangler (Apr 8, 2016)

Simo said:


> She's hot.
> 
> Pulitzer Prize.
> 
> Men, need to listen:



Never really heard of sexton, I think the no trend song "never again" has a opening sound bit from her work. Terry tempist Williams would be another good poet to add to these reflective prices.

@Lasvicus I know you have all the answers but I can't imagine you have know a feminist outside of YouTube or 4chan.


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## Acidwrangler (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Except you took it upon yourself to make a post, dictating to me that I AM a feminist.  I GENUINELY consider this an insult, and it runs counter to the statement you're making now in saying that what you call it doesn't matter. You yourself tried to pin a uniquely offensive label on me, so please, pick a direction and stick with it or shut your trap.  And yes, please, feminists everywhere.  Drop dead.



You are one angry controlling guy. It can't possibly be healthy to hate this hard on a broad concept/movement like feminism.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Acidwrangler said:


> Never really heard of sexton, I think the no trend song "never again" has a opening sound bit from her work. Terry tempist Williams would be another good poet to add to these reflective prices.
> 
> @Lasvicus I know you have all the answers but I can't imagine you have know a feminist outside of YouTube or 4chan.


I've had the displeasure of knowing 3.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Acidwrangler said:


> You are one angry controlling guy. It can't possibly be healthy to hate this hard on a broad concept/movement like feminism.


One could argue that it can't be healthy to SUPPORT such a movement.  Even if not in regard to one's OWN health.  And I DO argue that.


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Except you took it upon yourself to make a post, dictating to me that I AM a feminist.  I GENUINELY consider this an insult, and it runs counter to the statement you're making now in saying that what you call it doesn't matter. You yourself tried to pin a uniquely offensive label on me, so please, pick a direction and stick with it or shut your trap.  And yes, please, feminists everywhere.  Drop dead.



Woah, that's rather hostile there my friend, someone woke up on the wrong side of the keyboard huh?  Also I thought that movements can't be good or bad, something that neither good nor bad is, by process of elimination neutral, so therefore if the Feminism movement is neutral that one can assume that the term feminist is neutral as well and can't be offensive?


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Woah, that's rather hostile there my friend, someone woke up on the wrong side of the keyboard huh?  Also I thought that movements can't be good or bad, something that neither good nor bad is, by process of elimination neutral, so therefore if the Feminism movement is neutral that one can assume that the term feminist is neutral as well and can't be offensive?


A movement is defined by the people who make UP that movement at any given point in time.  The movement is the people, and the people are the movement.  Which I have stated now 2 or 3 times.  A cart used for carrying apples is not inherently good OR bad.  But shoot someone for calling it a cart of bad apples, when lo and behold, it's a cart of bad apples!  Feminism, thankfully, does not make up the whole of the Woman's Rights movement.  It is not the be all end all of the already WELL established Equal Rights movement, and when people see fit to try and insult me by trying to label me as a feminist, then turn around and bitch and moan about labels in general, and that same person CLINGS to the feminist label... I see a problem.


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## Acidwrangler (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> One could argue that it can't be healthy to SUPPORT such a movement.  And I DO argue that.



Ehh, idk one bad encounter + poor representation+ abstract reinsurance = flimsy grasp. Maybe talk to other feminists. I can't imagine you have the wisdom to know in full the broad range of feminism or what it has accomplished to make the world better. By your own definition of equality you. Are. A. Feminist. Do feminist slingshot women sometimes? Yes because 2000 years of patriarchal constructs don't come down by being nice and consistently catering to men's insecurity. Hate who you must to make scence of the world.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Acidwrangler said:


> Ehh, idk one bad encounter + poor representation+ abstract reinsurance = flimsy grasp. Maybe talk to other feminists. I can't imagine you have the wisdom to know in full the broad range of feminism or what it has accomplished to make the world better. By your own definition of equality you. Are. A. Feminist. Do feminist slingshot women sometimes? Yes because 2000 years of patriarchal constructs don't come down by being nice and consistently catering to men's insecurity. Hate who you must to make scence of the world.


No, I am an individual who advocates for the equal rights of ALL people, including women.  Not a feminist.
And I'm sure that if you asked each person who voted "No" here that they would say the same.  ^^^


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

Acidwrangler said:


> Ehh, idk one bad encounter + poor representation+ abstract reinsurance = flimsy grasp. Maybe talk to other feminists. I can't imagine you have the wisdom to know in full the broad range of feminism or what it has accomplished to make the world better. By your own definition of equality you. Are. A. Feminist. Do feminist slingshot women sometimes? Yes because 2000 years of patriarchal constructs don't come down by being nice and consistently catering to men's insecurity. Hate who you must to make scence of the world.


And you assume that just because you happen to know SOME people who erroneously identify as  feminists and ARENT feminazi female supremacists that YOU somehow have a full grasp of the movement in it's entirety?


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> A movement is defined by the people who make UP that movement at any given point in time.  The movement is the people, and the people are the movement.  Which I have stated now 2 or 3 times.  A cart used for carrying apples is not inherently good OR bad.  But saying that that cart is good because at some point in the past it mostly carried GOOD apples is idiotic if that cart has since been used almost exclusively for the purpose of carrying BAD apples.



Excuse my math because I'm terrible at it but this is what I'm getting  from your explanation, A movement in neither good nor bad so lets give it a value of 0, now a movement is = to the people and vice versa. However, in this situation the people have a negative value so lets just mark that as the people equaling -3 because I just like the number 3. What your say that since the movement and the people are equal that 0=-3 and that just doesn't compute, somewhere in this equation I'm missing some info, I can't solve for X.

Now I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine since as far as I can assume no one is being harmed here any more than usual.

What I'm more interested in is how the term feminist apparently became equal to being call a pedophilic animal murderer in your mind? I would see it being more like being called lazy, you just kind of brush it off because you know whether its true or not.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Excuse my math because I'm terrible at it but this is what I'm getting  from your explanation, A movement in neither good nor bad so lets give it a value of 0, now a movement is = to the people and vice versa. However, in this situation the people have a negative value so lets just mark that as the people equaling -3 because I just like the number 3. What your say that since the movement and the people are equal that 0=-3 and that just doesn't compute, somewhere in this equation I'm missing some info, I can't solve for X.
> 
> Now I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine since as far as I can assume no one is being harmed here any more than usual.
> 
> What I'm more interested in is how the term feminist apparently became equal to being call a pedophilic animal murderer in your mind? I would see it being more like being called lazy, you just kind of brush it off because you know whether its true or not.


Well unfortunately, not everything CAN be broken down mathematically.  But let's say that this thing CAN.  I'm saying that the numerical values change, in the same way that the people in the movement change.  There was a point where the main concern of the feminist movement was just getting fair pay and so on.  Today, in contrast, an unfortunate number of feminists are more concerned with whether or not a man can defend himself against a woman, and whether or not due process should be thrown out the window in favor of the woman making unsubstantiated claims of sexual assault against a man.  The direction of the movement changed as the people WITHIN the movement changed.  I reject the feminist movement as it is because of these things.  Why should ANYONE have to automatically be associated and labeled as such, if ONLY for advocating equal rights for women?  There were other points, and I don't want this to be a MILE long, so if you're actually interested, you can find them in previous posts.


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

Okay, I get what you're saying and I agree with your concept, everyone should have equal rights. But that easier said than done apparently. I feel like we as a people can't multitask when it comes to fixing problems, some things fall to the wayside. Its a lot like my mom handling all of our needs, I'm one of 8 children to a single mother. Now I hated bugging my mother with the same thing over and over but I found when I didn't everyone else got what they needed and I was left to try to figure it out on my own. Now of course we could all collectively come together and look out for one another but that not how it worked, everyone was out for themselves and if they were persistent enough then they got their way.

 I feel it's the same with individual groups rights, black men get paid more than black women but less than both white men and women, them saying "I want women to be paid as much as men" does nothing to directly better their lives so its not going to set off that instant gratification we're all seeking. Women saying we want men to stop taking away our reproductive rights does nothing to end police brutality against blacks so its unlikely that these two groups are going to devote the time and energy to try to change things for both causes when they each have their own problems. Now a lot of people cross between both, I'm one of them, but a lot of people don't, and not everyone has the capacity to fully empathize all the time with problems that don't directly affect them which is why we have groups advocating for individual group rights because that's what's most relevant to them. Is it right? Not entirely, but we cant change everything all at once and if enough people get together behind one cause things do start to give little by little.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Okay, I get what you're saying and I agree with your concept, everyone should have equal rights. But that easier said than done apparently. I feel like we as a people can't multitask when it comes to fixing problems, some things fall to the wayside. Its a lot like my mom handling all of our needs, I'm one of 8 children to a single mother. Now I hated bugging my mother with the same thing over and over but I found when I didn't everyone else got what they needed and I was left to try to figure it out on my own. Now of course we could all collectively come together and look out for one another but that not how it worked, everyone was out for themselves and if they were persistent enough then they got their way.
> 
> I feel it's the same with individual groups rights, black men get paid more than black women but less than both white men and women, them saying "I want women to be paid as much as men" does nothing to directly better their lives so its not going to set off that instant gratification we're all seeking. Women saying we want men to stop taking away our reproductive rights does nothing to end police brutality against blacks so its unlikely that these two groups are going to devote the time and energy to try to change things for both causes when they each have their own problems. Now a lot of people cross between both, I'm one of them, but a lot of people don't, and not everyone has the capacity to fully empathize all the time with problems that don't directly affect them which is why we have groups advocating for individual group rights because that's what's most relevant to them. Is it right? Not entirely, but we cant change everything all at once and if enough people get together behind one cause things do start to give little by little.


And then you get those people in a movement whose only apparent interest is gaining legal supremacy (or dominance, take your pick or insert your own) and seek to have laws passed and enforced which would would accomplish their goal.  Allowing women to accuse a man of rape with nothing to back up her claim, and having the man arrested anyway because of how many tears she shed in court.  I know I keep getting back to that one, but that one IS an unfortunately prominent issue in the feminist movement, and there are men who have been arrested or at the very LEAST had their lives ruined by lying women.  A wonderful example would be that movement wherein women went around carrying a mattress.  The story behind that is truly appalling.  More than that though, women were fighting for their rights before anyone ever even dreamed of the term "feminist" and feminism isn't the be-all end-all of the Women's Rights movement.  Though I will concede to it being the most commonly (having trouble finding the right word...  something like, publicized, televised, etc.) "chapter" we'll say OF the Women's Rights movement, and maybe even being the largest in general.  I myself believe that all citizens of my country are legally entitled to the same rights as any other given citizen thereof.  This includes African Americans, but I genuinely detest the Black Lives Matter crap.  That in itself isn't entirely related to this thread, but I'm sure you can understand WHY.


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## Samandriel Morningstar (Apr 8, 2016)

Sorry,I just thought I'd share something a bit silly.
I saw a video on Youtube of a 'feminist' walking through a dark snow [for the most part] covered parking lot outside of some big stores/strip mall yelling how the sticks painting orange on the curbs and junk were signs of male dominance,oppression and whatever else.
She just kept screaming about it,even pulled one out of the ground and stomped on it.


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## Victor-933 (Apr 8, 2016)

better late than never i guess


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> And then you get those people in a movement whose only apparent interest is gaining legal supremacy (or dominance, take your pick or insert your own) and seek to have laws passed and enforced which would would accomplish their goal.  Allowing women to accuse a man of rape with nothing to back up her claim, and having the man arrested anyway because of how many tears she shed in court.  I know I keep getting back to that one, but that one IS an unfortunately prominent issue in the feminist movement, and there are men who have been arrested or at the very LEAST had their lives ruined by lying women.  A wonderful example would be that movement wherein women went around carrying a mattress.  The story behind that is truly appalling.  More than that though, women were fighting for their rights before anyone ever even dreamed of the term "feminist" and feminism isn't the be-all end-all of the Women's Rights movement.  Though I will concede to it being the most commonly (having trouble finding the right word...  something like, publicized, televised, etc.) "chapter" we'll say OF the Women's Rights movement, and maybe even being the largest in general.  I myself believe that all citizens of my country are legally entitled to the same rights as any other given citizen thereof.  This includes the Black Rights movement, but I genuinely detest the Black Lives Matter crap.  That in itself isn't entirely related to this thread, but I'm sure you can understand WHY.



Don't worry, that's never going to happen, especially when we're still concerned about what a woman was wearing when she legitimately and unquestionably assaulted. Of course men kinda put themselves in this predicament in the first place, the most prominent issue in the feminist movement is not persecuting men who rape, its that the rapes are occurring in the first place. If so many rapes didn't occur then when a woman said she was raped it'd be like saying there was a flying whale outside.  People have been fighting for their rights for all of known history, just because it didn't have a name doesn't mean it didn't exist. And not everyone is legally entitled to the same rights, everyone should be but not everyone is.


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## LindyHop (Apr 8, 2016)

Samandriel Morningstar said:


> Sorry,I just thought I'd share something a bit silly.
> I saw a video on Youtube of a 'feminist' walking through a dark snow [for the most part] covered parking lot outside of some big stores/strip mall yelling how the sticks painting orange on the curbs and junk were signs of male dominance,oppression and whatever else.
> She just kept screaming about it,even pulled one out of the ground and stomped on it.



I do call myself a feminist and this makes no sense to me, like wtf? That woman has issues.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 8, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Don't worry, that's never going to happen, especially when we're still concerned about what a woman was wearing when she legitimately and unquestionably assaulted. Of course men kinda put themselves in this predicament in the first place, the most prominent issue in the feminist movement is not persecuting men who rape, its that the rapes are occurring in the first place. If so many rapes didn't occur then when a woman said she was raped it'd be like saying there was a flying whale outside.  People have been fighting for their rights for all of known history, just because it didn't have a name doesn't mean it didn't exist. And not everyone is legally entitled to the same rights, everyone should be but not everyone is.


Well, in a magical world, a woman could walk on the sidewalk completely naked without fear of getting cat-called or getting assaulted.  But this isn't a magical world.  A woman wearing bandaids for a top and floss for a bottom, drinking and and grinding against every other guy in a club inviting everyone who can hear her to come have a taste shouldn't be surprised when something actually goes down.  That's the more extreme end of the spectrum, but still.  If it's not available, don't put it on display.  And I mean that for men too.


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Well, in a magical world, a woman could walk on the sidewalk completely naked without fear of getting cat-called or getting assaulted.  But this isn't a magical world.  A woman wearing bandaids for a top and floss for a bottom, drinking and and grinding against every other guy in a club inviting everyone who can hear her to come have a taste shouldn't be surprised when something actually goes down.  That's the more extreme end of the spectrum, but still.  If it's not available, don't put it on display.  And I mean that for men too.



Historically nudity in climates that permitted it was quite normal until the Europeans came by and considered it crude, you'll still find nudity the norm in places where the (now) western ideals has completely taking over. For some reason breasts and butts have been sexualized when that's only the secondary function of breasts. I'm not sure how butts became a sexual thing. Besides, rape isn't about sex, its about power, dominance, and humiliation.

Being catcalled is not the same as being stoned, its a mild annoyance but not lethal or scary. What's scary is when men follow you and are persistent even after you've turned them down several times, even when you're dressed head to toe.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Historically nudity in climates that permitted it was quite normal until the Europeans came by and considered it crude, you'll still find nudity the norm in places where the (now) western ideals has completely taking over. For some reason breasts and butts have been sexualized when that's only the secondary function of breasts. I'm not sure how butts became a sexual thing. Besides, rape isn't about sex, its about power, dominance, and humiliation.
> 
> Being catcalled is not the same as being stoned, its a mild annoyance but not lethal or scary. What's scary is when men follow you and are persistent even after you've turned them down several times, even when you're dressed head to toe.


And historically, Europeans often considered pale skin to be more beautiful than tan skin, for a few different reasons.  So looking BACKWARDS and saying, in this time, in this place, it was fine, doesnt really do anything for today.  Different people, different culture, different place, different time.  Though you are right in saying that the human body was sexualized, and it wasnt so much EUROPEAN as it was CHRISTIAN.  I wrote a paper about this pertaining specifically to ancient Rome.
Honestly, if you think men don't rape because they think it's hot you need to rethink xD
There ARE power heavy dudes out to assert their dominance, but if nothing else, BDSM should prove the existence of a form of sexuality which is derived from rape and whatever pleasure a rapist might seek in the act thereof.


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> And historically, Europeans often considered pale skin to be more beautiful than tan skin, for a few different reasons.  So looking BACKWARDS and saying, in this time, in this place, it was fine, doesnt really do anything for today.  Different people, different culture, different place, different time.
> Honestly, if you think men don't rape because they think it's hot you need to rethink xD
> There ARE power heavy dude out to assert their dominance, but if nothing else, BDSM should prove the existence of a form of sexuality which is derived from rape and whatever pleasure a rapist might seek in the act thereof.



Touche, you got me there, although we still have that whole pale skin is better than dark skin problem going on today, but that's a topic for another thread. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in a day in age where we think we're more progressive why people get their nipples in a knot over an exposed boobie. And think that seeing that exposed boobie gives them a right to that boobie, thats like if I thought that everytime someone opened a cash register I could reach in and take some money. That's not my money, I didn't earn it, that's not your boobie, you didn't earn it.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Touche, you got me there, although we still have that whole pale skin is better than dark skin problem going on today, but that's a topic for another thread. I guess what I'm trying to say is that in a day in age where we think we're more progressive why people get their nipples in a knot over an exposed boobie. And think that seeing that exposed boobie gives them a right to that boobie, thats like if I thought that everytime someone opened a cash register I could reach in and take some money. That's not my money, I didn't earn it, that's not your boobie, you didn't earn it.


But does anyone really EARN  a boobie?  xD
And people do just reach over and take that cash, but how many people turn around and blame it on a culture that supposedly "promotes" that theft?  And who, pray tell, would be stupid enough to wave a stack of $100 bills around in peoples' faces in the hood?  No one, and even if someone DID do that, they would get robbed.  So using that same analogy, why would anyone wave around parts of their body which have been sexualized in the faces of hot and bothered people who find that bit VERYYYY attractive?


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> But does anyone really EARN  a boobie?  xD
> And people do just reach over and take that cash, but how many people turn around and blame it on a culture that supposedly "promotes" that theft?  And who, pray tell, would be stupid enough to wave a stack of $100 bills around in peoples' faces in the hood?  No one, and even if someone DID do that, they would get robbed.  So using that same analogy, why would anyone wave around parts of their body which have been sexualized in the faces of hot and bothered people who find that bit VERYYYY attractive?



Lmao, a bit TMI here but my partner always says to me "You earned this dick" so I'm assuming you can earn a boobie too. And I can tell you anyone who's got benjamins in the hood is probably also packin' heat. But maybe I'm disillusioned because I lived in Philly, lots of gun violence there. And I'm not talking about flaunting it but even if they did that no excuse to not have some self-control.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Lmao, a bit TMI here but my partner always says to me "You earned this dick" so I'm assuming you can earn a boobie too. And I can tell you anyone who's got benjamins in the hood is probably also packin' heat. But maybe I'm disillusioned because I lived in Philly, lots of gun violence there. And I'm not talking about flaunting it but even if they did that no excuse to not have some self-control.


I wont disagree with that, but knowing what's more likely to happen if you do something, and in the case that this something happens when you did what you knew would make that something more likely TO happen, I think you at least have to accept SOME responsibility.  People lock their cars for a reason, it might not stop anyone, but it is your responsibility to take every measure you can to ensure the security OF your car.  If you leave it open, you have to accept SOME responsibility.


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> I wont disagree with that, but knowing what's more likely to happen if you do something, and in the case that this something happens when you did what you knew would make that something more likely TO happen, I think you at least have to accept SOME responsibility.  People lock their cars for a reason, it might not stop anyone, but it is your responsibility to take every measure you can to ensure the security OF your car.  If you leave it open, you have to accept SOME responsibility.



I live on an island near a major city that people consider to be sketchy, people here don't lock their car doors and leave their car windows open. I often think it'd be so easy to steal that especially since I'm a relatively unknown entity, but I don't and it's partially because I don't know how to drive but it's mostly because i know the difference between right and wrong and most other people do too.

But on a side note it actually gives me anxiety that people don't lock their stuff around here, it's such a foreign concept to me that people aren't worried about being robbed.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> I live on an island near a major city that people consider to be sketchy, people here don't lock their car doors and leave their car windows open. I often think it'd be so easy to steal that especially since I'm a relatively unknown entity, but I don't and it's partially because I don't know how to drive but it's mostly because i know the difference between right and wrong and most other people do too.
> 
> But on a side note it actually gives me anxiety that people don't lock their stuff around here, it's such a foreign concept to me that people aren't worried about being robbed.


Well, in the instance that one of their cars IS robbed, who bears 100% of the responsibility?  Is it not divided?
I mean, even if that's a norm where you are, do you really have much right to bitch and moan when someone take something of yours, which you took no measure to protect?  I know this analogy has turned into less of an analogy and more of a question of whether or not someone should lock their cars xD


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Well, in the instance that one of their cars IS robbed, who bears 100% of the responsibility?  Is it not divided?
> I mean, even if that's a norm where you are, do you really have much right to bitch and moan when someone take something of yours, which you took no measure to protect?  I know this analogy has turned into less of an analogy and more of a question of whether or not someone should lock their cars xD



I'm gonna be honest, if you don't lock your door purposely and someone steals it I do consider it your fault especially since it takes less than a second with the beep-beep which most cars have today. I don't know the proper word for the device. But when use as an analogy while it makes sense my hang up is that you can't compare a person to an object, I mean you can, but one has more worth than the other in my eyes.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> I'm gonna be honest, if you don't lock your door purposely and someone steals it I do consider it your fault especially since it takes less than a second with the beep-beep which most cars have today. I don't know the proper word for the device. But when use as an analogy while it makes sense my hang up is that you can't compare a person to an object, I mean you can, but one has more worth than the other in my eyes.


Should one not take extra precautions to protect that which is more valuable then? xD
I mean, one wouldn't give the same level of security to protect a grain of sand as a brick of solid gold, no?


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Should one not take extra precautions to protect that which is more valuable then? xD



Nah, you make it so obviously unguarded that it guards itself, people will be like "this is too damn easy" and leave it alone.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Nah, you make it so obviously unguarded that it guards itself, people will be like "this is too damn easy" and leave it alone.


Except when they don't xD
Which in itself is the problem at hand, no?


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Except when they don't xD
> Which in itself is the problem at hand, no?



Yeah, not with people, but with cars you'd have to be crazy. Like If I saw a car with no one around and the door so obviously unlocked and open I'm taking the longest widest path around that thing because something's not kosher.


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> when people see fit to try and insult me by trying to label me as a feminist, then turn around and bitch and moan about labels in general, and that same person CLINGS to the feminist label... I see a problem.



I'm guessing you were referring to me?

1) I wasn't trying to insult you.
2) Yes, I don't give a shit about labels. I thought something you said was patently false, based on the definition of a word which I thought I was familiar with. I don't think it's a big deal, though, so perhaps I should have refrained from posting that dictionary link.
3) I don't think you know me well enough to know whether or not a cling to the feminist label. However, similar to the way you've met a few people who gave you a bad impression of feminism, I have a few great friends who call themselves feminists. If I read someone talking about how all feminists should die, I'm going to voice my disapproval.


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

It looks like this thread has morphed into actual discussion, so I'll (try to) either stay on topic or step out.

On the subject of women (or whoever) inviting assault/rape/etc. by being scantily clad in public:

- I think it is wise of people to take precautions and avoid major risks when possible.
- I think it sucks that we have to talk about going out in public as being high-risk.
- I think rapists have no excuses for their actions, and I don't think anyone should be justifying the actions of rapists.


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## LindyHop (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> It looks like this thread has morphed into actual discussion, so I'll (try to) either stay on topic or step out.
> 
> On the subject of women (or whoever) inviting assault/rape/etc. by being scantily clad in public:
> 
> ...



True, and I agree with you 100% but unfortunately our world is broken and you gotta play the hand your dealt with and hope the next one is better


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> I'm guessing you were referring to me?
> 
> 1) I wasn't trying to insult you.
> 2) Yes, I don't give a shit about labels. I thought something you said was patently false, based on the definition of a word which I thought I was familiar with. I don't think it's a big deal, though, so perhaps I should have refrained from posting that dictionary link.
> 3) I don't think you know me well enough to know whether or not a cling to the feminist label. However, similar to the way you've met a few people who gave you a bad impression of feminism, I have a few great friends who call themselves feminists. If I read someone talking about how all feminists should die, I'm going to voice my disapproval.


It was in general, sweet cheeks. And whether or not you were TRYING to insult me, I do view it as an insult.  But moving on.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> It looks like this thread has morphed into actual discussion, so I'll (try to) either stay on topic or step out.
> 
> On the subject of women (or whoever) inviting assault/rape/etc. by being scantily clad in public:
> 
> ...


We're humans.  We have a long history of trying to drive each other into extinction despite being of the same race.
So naturally, coexisting with other humans IS something of a risk.  We can sit here and debate on whether or not we should HAVE to be careful walking down the street, but in the end, we do.  That probably won't ever change, because again, we're all humans here.  And some of us just suck.  Rape can't truly be justified, but if there is a measure which one can take to prevent it from happening to them, they have a responsibility to themselves to TAKE that precaution, and they lose the right, I think, to blame something happening to them (entirely) on someone else when they DIDN'T take the aforementioned precaution in the first place.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

LindyHop said:


> Now a bit off topic but as a black woman I have to respond to your to your but about the #blacklivesmatter movement. Most protests are still peaceful, but they're killing us at an alarming rate and getting away with it and we're scared. I've been conditioned over the years to stand a certain way, smile always, speak a certain way, censor what I do and say, make myself as non-threatening as possible because of the color of my skin. I went to a town where people proudly displayed the confederate flag and a 6 foot tall man looked visibly scared and avoided me because I'm black. I've walked down the streets of Philly and been called a n*gger, I've overheard the comment "what a waste of a good man" because my partner happens to be white. I'm doubly afraid of going places by myself because I'm a woman and I'm black, there are states I don't think n I'd ever set foot in because of the marked racism. There are bad eggs in the movement but I think we have a right to be angry and while I don't advocate violence I don't see how people can get their titties in a twist when we fight back when other attacked first.


Back to an older point, when the majority of ALL crimes against African Americans are committed by OTHER African Americans, one would have cause to say that if you're dying off at an alarming rate, it has little to do with anyone OTHER than African Americans.
You've been called the N word? Ive been called the C word and pushed against a wall by an African American because I "looked at him funny" which had nothing to do with his race, but rather, I'm just socially awkward.
Racism doesn't exist solely as the tool of the "white man."  Which brings me into my second point, sort of, which regards the publicity OF racism against African Americans.  We live in a time when a black man can run over a child, and NOT have people making any more of it than what it really is.  A tragedy.  But heaven forbid a white man hit a black kid with a car, people would FLOCK to the scene, screaming that the man is a racist.  People would demand that a monument be built to "honor" the young boy and it would get blown up to the point where people half way around the world would recognize the names of the people involved.  We live in a time when a group of black supremacists can march into a college library and disrupt the studies of students who are ACTUALLY interested in learning, and verbally assaulting them, even making racist remarks.  Then later going on to demand racial segregation, albeit on a small scale.  So no, to hell with Black Lives Matter.


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> We're humans.  We have a long history of trying to drive each other into extinction despite being of the same race.
> So naturally, coexisting with other humans IS something of a risk.  We can sit here and debate on whether or not we should HAVE to be careful walking down the street, but in the end, we do.  That probably won't ever change, because again, we're all humans here.  And some of us just suck.  Rape can't truly be justified, but if there is a measure which one can take to prevent it from happening to them, they have a responsibility to themselves to TAKE that precaution, and they lose the right, I think, to blame something happening to them (entirely) on someone else when they DIDN'T take the aforementioned precaution in the first place.



Yeah, I agree that some people just suck, and that it will probably always be the case.

I think 'responsibility' is a strong word there, but I get what you mean enough to where I shouldn't make a fuss of that. Did your apartment get completely ransacked after the front door was left unlocked? You probably should have locked your doors if you didn't want to chance having your stuff stolen. I agree with that.

Sticking for with the same analogy for a sec, though: someone (on these forums, actually) mentioned to me how amazing it is that, because of where they're living currently, they don't have to worry about locking their doors. There's no danger in that regard. I'm sure some of the people there still suck, but they don't steal. Or if they do, everyone else would notice and it would turn against them horribly, because nobody there does that shit.

That's what I mean to get at when I say that it'd be rad if going out in public didn't have to be considered high-risk. It'd be really, really nice to live in a place where, no matter what sex someone is or how they're dressed or how they walk or whether or not they have a bodyguard, they wouldn't have to worry about running into a stranger who doesn't understand (or just doesn't care) what consent means.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> Yeah, I agree that some people just suck, and that it will probably always be the case.
> 
> I think 'responsibility' is a strong word there, but I get what you mean enough to where I shouldn't make a fuss of that. Did your apartment get completely ransacked after the front door was left unlocked? You probably should have locked your doors if you didn't want your stuff stolen. I agree with that.
> 
> ...


Well, in that analogy, it's not always that someone just leaves their door unlocked.  Sometimes people leave their door wide open.  Which would bring me back to a previous phrase.  "If it's not available, don't put it on display."  xD


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

That's the same thing, man. Even if the front door is left open, that doesn't mean everyone else is suddenly entitled to take whatever they want from inside. It just means the owner didn't take all of the precautions they could have to prevent thieves from doing their thing.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> That's the same thing, man. Even if the front door is left open, that doesn't mean everyone else is suddenly entitled to take whatever they want from inside. It just means the owner didn't take all of the precautions they could have to prevent thieves from doing their thing.


Maybe not, but would logic not dictate that if you want something protected, you PROTECT IT?
You can skip towards the end of this one to get the point I want to get across here xD


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> A woman wearing bandaids for a top and floss for a bottom, drinking and and grinding against every other guy in a club inviting everyone who can hear her to come have a taste shouldn't be surprised when something actually goes down.



I don't think it matters what the person is wearing, or whether or not they've been drinking. Again, that doesn't entitle others to do something immoral/illegal.

The grinding thing might actually be different, as that could kinda sorta be considered giving consent. I haven't thought about it much. Now, that still doesn't justify anything if someone else starts having their way with the person, despite screams of "no" and constant struggling. But still, this is different enough from just dressing a certain way to make me think twice about it.

This isn't the only kind of situation, though. There are real people who seriously risk - or "shouldn't be surprised," in your words - something horrible happening just by going to a bar alone, or by walking down a side road as the sun has started setting. It sucks. It would be much better if things were different. And, there might just be something we can do as a society to make things different, eventually.


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> You can skip towards the end of this one to get the point I want to get across here xD



Saying that catcalling and being stoned to death are "the same thing" is real dumb. I hope it was just a poor choice of words, but I don't know the lady, so I can't give her the benefit of the doubt.

The interviewer there strawmanned her a couple times and gave her a non-answer when asked what she thinks is the best solution to changing westernized culture for the better. Just sayin'.

But if the point you're trying to get across is that the girl holding up the sign said something really dumb, I completely agree.

If you're saying that all feminists are the same and can all be represented by the person in the video, I don't agree.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> I don't think it matters what the person is wearing, or whether or not they've been drinking. Again, that doesn't entitle others to do something immoral/illegal.
> 
> The grinding thing might actually be different, as that could kinda sorta be considered giving consent. I haven't thought about it much. Now, that still doesn't justify anything if someone else starts having their way with the person, despite screams of "no" and constant struggling. But still, this is different enough from just dressing a certain way to make me think twice about it.
> 
> This isn't the only kind of situation, though. There are real people who seriously risk - or "shouldn't be surprised," in your words - something horrible happening just by going to a bar alone, or by walking down a side road as the sun has started setting. It sucks. It would be much better if things were different. And, there might just be something we can do as a society to make things different, eventually.


Well that example WAS on the more extreme end of the spectrum.  But regardless of whether one person is entitled to do something, there are people who will do it ANYWAY.  And doing something that puts you at GREATER risk of someone doing that something to you is personally irresponsible.  It's called being realistic.  Not optimistic, not pessimistic, it's not wishful thinking or a prayer or good luck bad luck.  It's stopping for a second to be objective and acknowledge a risk, and acting accordingly.  Don't walk alone at night in a bad neighborhood.  That rule applies to everyone, I think.  You might get raped, you might get robbed, you might even get shot or shanked.  It's common sense, I wasn't brought up in a bad neighborhood, but I was taught these things growing up.  Don't do stupid shit.  It's a wonderful, universal rule of life.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> Saying that catcalling and being stoned to death are "the same thing" is real dumb. I hope it was just a poor choice of words, but I don't know the lady, so I can't give her the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> The interviewer there strawmanned her a couple times and gave her a non-answer when asked what she thinks is the best solution to changing westernized culture for the better. Just sayin'.
> 
> ...


I'll save you the trouble, there's another video with JUST that part I wanted seen.


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## Spazzlez (Apr 9, 2016)

I guess I should put my two cents in and give my opinion. By the way this is an opinion so don't murder me over it.
Do I call myself a feminist? No, far from it actually. Do I care if others identify as one? No, not even once.
I call myself an egalitarian, someone who is for the equality of all (or most) humankind. I believe modern feminism is a movement made out of insecurity and fear-mongering. Feminists proclaim to spread body positivity, but when someone who is slim and/or attractive appears they go haywire and attack said person. Not to mention video games, who cares if a girl is sporting themselves a big pair of knockers, I just want to play the game. Everyone wants to be represented in some way regardless of what they're criticizing. Remember Deadpool? After its release, SJWs everywhere said it didn't represent the pan/omnisexual crowd. Deadpool being omnisexual, was dating a girl in the film. The creator of Deadpool didn't take kindly to this and stated that Deadpool's sexual interest is a momentary thing, one minute he's attracted to one thing then a moment passes. In the end, believe what you want to. Don't listen to some furfag with too much time on his hands online tell you what to believe.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

Spazzlez said:


> I guess I should put my two cents in and give my opinion. By the way this is an opinion so don't murder me over it.
> Do I call myself a feminist? No, far from it actually. Do I care if others identify as one? No, not even once.
> I call myself an egalitarian, someone who is for the equality of all (or most) humankind. I believe modern feminism is a movement made out of insecurity and fear-mongering. Feminists proclaim to spread body positivity, but when someone who is slim and/or attractive appears they go haywire and attack said person. Not to mention video games, who cares if a girl is sporting themselves a big pair of knockers, I just want to play the game. Everyone wants to be represented in some way regardless of what they're criticizing. Remember Deadpool? After its release, SJWs everywhere said it didn't represent the pan/omnisexual crowd. Deadpool being omnisexual, was dating a girl in the film. The creator of Deadpool didn't take kindly to this and stated that Deadpool's sexual interest is a momentary thing, one minute he's attracted to one thing then a moment passes. In the end, believe what you want to. Don't listen to some furfag with too much time on his hands online tell you what to believe.


Egalitarian.  That's one I've never heard.  Tell me more, senpai  @-@
And thank you xD


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## Fallowfox (Apr 9, 2016)

Well this thread is an utter train wreck. I generally agree with @Spazzlez



Lasvicus said:


> Egalitarian.  That's one I've never heard.  Tell me more, senpai  @-@
> And thank you xD



I am surprised you have not heard of egalitarianism. It essentially posits that equal opportunities and treatment should be presented to people without regard for their identity, such as their sex or race.


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Well that example WAS on the more extreme end of the spectrum.  But regardless of whether one person is entitled to do something, there are people who will do it ANYWAY.  And doing something that puts you at GREATER risk of someone doing that something to you is personally irresponsible.  It's called being realistic.  Not optimistic, not pessimistic, it's not wishful thinking or a prayer or good luck bad luck.  It's stopping for a second to be objective and acknowledge a risk, and acting accordingly.  Don't walk alone at night in a bad neighborhood.  That rule applies to everyone, I think.  You might get raped, you might get robbed, you might even get shot or shanked.  It's common sense, I wasn't brought up in a bad neighborhood, but I was taught these things growing up.  Don't do stupid shit.  It's a wonderful, universal rule of life.



Yeah, there are bad neighborhoods in the States and other places, where anyone who's on foot is running a decent risk of something bad happening. I still say that sucks, but it is indeed a fact of life and will be for the foreseeable future.

There is always _some_ level of risk involved (and you might have mentioned this already) as soon as you take a step out the door of your place of living. Again, I think it sucks. Again, I think it's possible that things could be made better, to some degree. But there are some risks that will always be there. You could get in a car accident when someone else's brakes fail. That's nobody's fault, and it can't be made better (save some futuristic mode of transportation or something).

It's when we get to exactly what risks are unnecessary and should never be taken by anyone where we're more likely to reach some different thoughts and opinions. A friend of mine was heading to a bathroom at a bar once, and without any kind of solicitation, some stranger tried to make a pretty sketchy advance on her. Yes, she can learn from that and take some steps to avoid that kind of situation in the future. I just wouldn't classify going to a public facility (other than a club, or somewhere where sexual activity is known to be highly common) and meeting certain physical criteria as "doing stupid shit."


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

@Spazzlez - respectfully put. As someone who doesn't really venture out on the internet outside of FAF and a couple of other really niche forums, I'm rarely exposed to people talking about that kind of thing (fuss raised about video games, Deadpool). Interesting thoughts, and I thank you for sharing.

@Fallowfox - is it a trainwreck? I thought there's been some pretty good discussion.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 9, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> @Spazzlez - respectfully put. As someone who doesn't really venture out on the internet outside of FAF and a couple of other really niche forums, I'm rarely exposed to people talking about that kind of thing (fuss raised about video games, Deadpool). Interesting thoughts, and I thank you for sharing.
> 
> @Fallowfox - is it a trainwreck? I thought there's been some pretty good discussion.



The thread includes convoluted assertions such as 'movements cannot be good or bad', when they most certainly can. 

I think the movement of feminism can be characterised as one preoccupied with minutia and with a generally blinkered perspective that posits that women are always in a state of oppression by an ephemeral patriarchy.

That's why, when faced with a world where there is vast sexual inequality in the arab world, modern feminists choose to petition universities to sack Nobel laureate scientists for making distasteful comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hunt#Resignations_and_reappointments

These are, in general, people more preoccupied with the shape of barbies dolls and imaginary characters in films, than they are with real travesties, such as female genital mutilation. :\


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## inactive (Apr 9, 2016)

Strong points. I can't argue there.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> The thread includes convoluted assertions such as 'movements cannot be good or bad', when they most certainly can.
> 
> I think the movement of feminism can be characterised as one preoccupied with minutia and with a generally blinkered perspective that posits that women are always in a state of oppression by an ephemeral patriarchy.
> 
> ...



A chess piece cannot inherently be good or bad, but the person behind it can be.
Nor can it move in a good or bad direction on it's own, but the person BEHIND it can move it in a good or bad direction.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> A chess piece cannot inherently be good or bad, but the person behind it can be.
> Nor can it move in a good or bad direction on it's own, but the person BEHIND it can move it in a good or bad direction.



Ehhhh I don't think this analogy describes what a movement is. 

For example, we would all agree that a movement to judge people by the colour of their hair is stupid, regardless of what its members are doing they subscribe to a silly idea, and that a movement that aimed to convert all the heathens into furries is fundamentally excellent.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> Ehhhh I don't think this analogy describes what a movement is.
> 
> For example, we would all agree that a movement to judge people by the colour of their hair *AB* is stupid, regardless of what its members are doing they subscribe to a silly idea, and that a movement that aimed to convert all the heathens into furries *BC *is fundamentally excellent.


I went ahead and named those movements that you provided as examples.  And I would say that for your assertion to actually make sense, you would have to assume that the *AB  *movement has and always WILL promote the judgement of hair color.  Was the animated representation of the female ass a top priority for feminists in the 70's?  No, the people WITHIN the feminist movement of TODAY are making an issue of it, and fast forward 30 some odd years (assuming the feminist movement still exists) they'll probably be making issues of DIFFERENT things.
You would ALSO have to assume that no one here is an idiot.  Because, as in all things, there are always people who ARE idiots, and might very well seek to join the *AB *movement and spit at the people in the *BC *movement.


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## Somnium (Apr 9, 2016)

If we allow women to continue spreading their bullshit propaganda we will soon be ashamed of being Men. Brothers, we have to stop it, we are the ones who build this world and we have the strength to shape it in our way! Black people told us they only wanted to be equal too and look what we got now, white guilt, you can't even hit a damn N without being labeled racist. Pathetic.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

Somnium said:


> If we allow women to continue spreading their bullshit propaganda we will soon be ashamed of being Men. Brothers, we have to stop it, we are the ones who build this world and we have the strength to shape it in our way! Black people told us they only wanted to be equal too and look what we got now, white guilt, you can't even hit a damn N without being labeled racist. Pathetic.


Ok that N bit was a no-no.  Just, no.  Though the general idea BEHIND your statement, I can agree with.  And men's strength?  The goal here (or at least SHOULD be) is equality.  Which would imply that men and women TOGETHER shape the world into something better, no?


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## Fallowfox (Apr 9, 2016)

Somnium said:


> If we allow women to continue spreading their bullshit propaganda we will soon be ashamed of being Men. Brothers, we have to stop it, we are the ones who build this world and we have the strength to shape it in our way! Black people told us they only wanted to be equal too and look what we got now, white guilt, you can't even hit a damn N without being labeled racist. Pathetic.




^ This sort of comment is what I'm taking about when I describe this thread as a trainwreck.


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## Somnium (Apr 9, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> Ok that N bit was a no-no.  Just, no.  Though the general idea BEHIND your statement, I can agree with.  And men's strength?  The goal here (or at least SHOULD be) is equality.  Which would imply that men and women TOGETHER shape the world into something better, no?



Of course together, women are great at supporting men. I see you're too afraid to call a cunt N, black propaganda is working. If the black dude was cool why the f would you want to hit him in the first place


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

Fallowfox said:


> ^ This sort of comment is what I'm taking about when I describe this thread as a trainwreck.


This is the first of it's kind here.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Of course together, women are great at supporting men. I see you're too afraid to call a cunt N, black propaganda is working. If the black dude was cool why the f would you want to hit him in the first place


This isn't a thread to vent racism and sexism.  Take it elsewhere.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 9, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Of course together, women are great at supporting men. I see you're too afraid to call a cunt N, black propaganda is working. If the black dude was cool why the f would you want to hit him in the first place



This is bait, people.


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## Somnium (Apr 9, 2016)

These posts were a joke, don't take them seriously, I don't have anything against women or other races.


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## Spazzlez (Apr 9, 2016)

For those who don't know: Egalitarianism is the social, political, and economical belief that everyone regardless of what they are, is equal. I believe everyone is equal yet different. (Of course the end of this was a bit obvious)


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## Z-Mizz (Apr 9, 2016)

Spazzlez said:


> For those who don't know: Egalitarianism is the social, political, and economical belief that everyone regardless of what they are, is equal. I believe everyone is equal yet different. (Of course the end of this was a bit obvious)


Learn something new everyday. There's a word for every other equal rights belief, so why not one that encompasses everything. I love it :3

The problem with labels, movements, or any group in general is that, in essence, the actions of the individuals in those group dictate the perception of the whole. What makes this even worse is that America has developed a societal view that the individual is more important than the whole in a country that has the most diverse and varying make-up of races, beliefs, cultures, etc. So I can understand anyone's displeasure at being labeled.

Getting more into movements I'd have to say that all previous statements on the topic hold some truth. I believe movements, in their initial incarnation, can be good, bad, or neutral. But that movements initial objectives can be changed based on the actions of the individuals of that group. Something that starts with well intentions can always become warped into something completely different. Feminism, for example, way back in history (if it was even called such back then) had actual goals of equality in mind: voting rights, equal work opportunities and equal pay, to name a few. Compare that to today's movements and they seem a bit more... skewed as far as leveling the bar goes. We already have an established judicial system, but when it comes to asking for that system to be altered, for the sake of any given party it isn't about equal rights anymore: it's about exclusive rights. This is an example of a movement and it's perception being affected by the actions of individuals.

On the topic of risk and personal responsibility: people have become way too comfortable blaming others for the things that happen to them. I don't mean to say that they shouldn't blame others. People do fucked up stuff. All the time. But with that being known, some people still take no responsibility to be cautious in certain situations. Yes, you shouldn't be looked at or thought of in a certain way based on the way you dress. But, why would you wear something that is viewed in a certain way, if you don't want the perception that comes with it? This goes for actions as well. The other side of the coin on this matter though is that we have developed a society that has these predetermined views towards things. And by we I mean the media: from the social to the official news. But I don't even want to get into that.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 9, 2016)

FINALLY, I can respond here.
It seems the discussion got side-tracked by SOMEONE'S racist and sexist "bait."
I still stand by my assertion that every movement is inherently neutral, it's the people WITHIN the movement that take it in a good or bad direction.  And if a movement lasts long enough, it will see a great many different kinds of people, who would take it in as many different directions.  Be they good or bad.
And I agree with @Z-Mizz in saying that people dress a certain way, KNOWING what it says and what it means in this culture, and doing it BECAUSE of what it says. But then those same people are completely SHOCKED when someone expresses an attraction to them in their state of dress, and "protest" this by turning around and dressing even MORE provocatively.


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## ProxFox (Apr 12, 2016)

This thread is just a big summation as to why I don't do gender politics. I still care about issues that are gender specific but this whole radfem vs rad anti-fem turf war has become really tiring. Not to mention that both sides hate me, radfems because I have a penis and don't apologize for it, and rad anti-dens because I'm a 'non-binary tumblr SJW'.

It's just a big waste of time that does nothing. Meanwhile actual activists for civil rights are making real progress whilst radicals just scream at each other over the Internet in an un-ending game over who can demonize who the most.

Every time I come across one of these I get some examples of why I should dislike the other side (by the way showing the most extreme examples of an ideology you're against is super lazy because you can do that for literally anything) but I see no reasons as to why I should join the side of the person showing me these examples. By this point both sides look like such shit that I will write off anyone who is heavily on either side. And also I think they should all shut the fuck up and maybe we could do things but that'd be a miracle.

You people need to get lives and maybe actually do something about these issues you claim to care so much about.

Also I really just want to use the internet again without being asked about my political beliefs, thank you. I'm just here to have a good time but man all this drama gets in the way.

Anyways you probably think I'm just a feminist that need to 'drop dead' (that's very tasteful by the way, when making a case it's always important that you make sure you let everyone know that you thing everyone who disagrees should die) so I guess I'll just leave it at this.

I'm just so fucking frustrated. Also one last reminder that extreme examples of stupid people in an ideology aren't prof of an ideology being bullshit.


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## inactive (Apr 13, 2016)

Radical ________ is generally counterproductive to progress.


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## ProxFox (Apr 13, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> Radical ________ is generally counterproductive to progress.



That's what I'm saying. The OP has pretty much guaranteed that I will never value their opinion. I'm radically against radicalism I guess you could say.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

First of all, I'm not radical anything.  And for you to suggest that I am, then turn around and say that you're a radical against radicals such as myself is...  Well it's fucking retarded.  Proclaim to hate radicals, admits to BEING radical, doesn't value the opinions of radicals.  Congratulations.
Furthermore, what visual aids I used in this post were so UNBELIEVABLY far from the most extreme examples that I could have provided.  So please, understand that just because you don't like something, it doesn't make it extreme.  I'm anti feminist because it's filled with an unfortunate number of people who perpetuate ideas such as rape culture, but ignore the travesties against women in ACTUAL rape cultures.  And when an anti feminist such as myself begins fundraising for such women, it pisses those feminists off.  Because it diverted attention and funds away from their "sexist video game" campaign wherein they would seek to shrink the boobs and asses of all digital female characters.  THAT sounds pretty radical, and it's only 1 example.  I could go on, but you have an entire thread explaining these things.  Feel free to actually have a look.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

And please, if you don't want to have to read a political thread, DONT READ A POLITICAL THREAD.  The wonderful thing about the internet is that you can click the FUCK away if you see something you don't like.  And you can go find something you DO like.  Problem solved, no?  Well apparently not for you, because it seems that you enjoy declaring the "worthlessness" of the opinions of others and telling people to "get a life."  I respond by telling you that you don't know what life I have or what I do or who I help therein and therewith.  But I do believe strongly in discussion, and that's what this was (before you).


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

And you automatically write off anyone who doesn't share your own opinions?  A little too far to the left or a little too far to the right and you write them off?  Good.  I'll take being written off by one such as yourself to be something of a compliment.
So please, go be a 'non-binary social justice warrior' elsewhere  if all you're going to do HERE is sling shit, make accusations, call names, contradict yourself and complain about not wanting to be here but staying here like anyone is forcing you.


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## RosetheCrux (Apr 13, 2016)

Isn't disliking all feminists because some seem to, well, hate men (and other stuff lol) similar to how people dislike furries because some of them are seen as "freaks"? Idk I guess one bad apple spoils the bunch. 

I'd call myself a feminist, I support equality and all that. I know there are quite a few feminists who think it's okay to try and put themselves above men but there are also quite a few who just want equality for all genders. 

Well I'm not gonna tell you who to like and dislike, I just thought I'd put in my two cents


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## Fallowfox (Apr 13, 2016)

RosetheCrux said:


> *Isn't disliking all feminists because some seem to, well, hate men (and other stuff lol) similar to how people dislike furries because some of them are seen as "freaks"?* Idk I guess one bad apple spoils the bunch.
> 
> I'd call myself a feminist, I support equality and all that. I know there are quite a few feminists who think it's okay to try and put themselves above men but there are also quite a few who just want equality for all genders.
> 
> Well I'm not gonna tell you who to like and dislike, I just thought I'd put in my two cents



Disliking feminism doesn't mean you dislike all people who call themselves feminists, does it?


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## inactive (Apr 13, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> I'm anti feminist because it's filled with an unfortunate number of people who perpetuate ideas such as rape culture, but ignore the travesties against women in ACTUAL rape cultures.  And when an anti feminist such as myself begins fundraising for such women, it pisses those feminists off.



Did this actually happen, or is it a hypothesis of yours?



Fallowfox said:


> Disliking feminism doesn't mean you dislike all people who call themselves feminists, does it?



Not necessarily, but that seems to be the way OP is operating, which I would guess is what Rose's post was addressing.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> Did this actually happen, or is it a hypothesis of yours?
> 
> 
> Not necessarily, but that seems to be the way OP is operating, which I would guess is what Rose's post was addressing.



This actually happened when AmazingAthiest actually started raising money to help women who are actually oppressed.
I'm operating in a general sense.  When, from what I've seen and heard and experienced, I say fuck feminists, I don't mean to say fuck the individual people so much as fuck the movement and what people therein insist on taking it in the direction that it's going in.  If there was a miscommunication on that part I'll admit to it probably being my fault.  But I digress.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 13, 2016)

tranceguy said:


> Did this actually happen, or is it a hypothesis of yours?
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily, but that seems to be the way OP is operating, which I would guess is what Rose's post was addressing.



The rape culture double standard became apparent after the Collogne attacks.


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## ZacAttackk (Apr 13, 2016)

The definition of feminist is "*Feminism* is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment." so technically if you're an 'anti-feminist' then that means your against wanting women to have equal rights to men, but I do see why some people dislike feminists (term put lightly) as some self-labelled feminists don't 100% understand the concept and think that feminism is more about women having more power than they do now rather than having equal rights.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

ZacAttackk said:


> The definition of feminist is "*Feminism* is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment." so technically if you're an 'anti-feminist' then that means your against wanting women to have equal rights to men, but I do see why some people dislike feminists (term put lightly) as some self-labelled feminists don't 100% understand the concept and think that feminism is more about women having more power than they do now rather than having equal rights.


There is no "technically" about it.  The feminist movement isnt the be-all end-all of the women's rights movement.  This has already been established, use your brain, wanting equal rights for EVERYONE doesn't make ANYONE a feminist.


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## luxdreamer (Apr 13, 2016)

Satire post is satire.


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## ProxFox (Apr 13, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> This actually happened when AmazingAthiest actually started raising money to help women who are actually oppressed.
> I'm operating in a general sense.  When, from what I've seen and heard and experienced, I say fuck feminists, I don't mean to say fuck the individual people so much as fuck the movement and what people therein insist on taking it in the direction that it's going in.  If there was a miscommunication on that part I'll admit to it probably being my fault.  But I digress.



Isn't The Amazing Atheist the guy that told a woman he hopes she gets raped again? And also said he should be allowed to have sex with people at 14?


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## ZacAttackk (Apr 13, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> There is no "technically" about it.  The feminist movement isnt the be-all end-all of the women's rights movement.  This has already been established, use your brain, wanting equal rights for EVERYONE doesn't make ANYONE a feminist.



I didn't say that someone is automatically a feminist for wanting equal rights for everyone, but not every self labelled feminist is the stereotypical triggering tumblr user that overdramatises everything.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

ZacAttackk said:


> I didn't say that someone is automatically a feminist for wanting equal rights for everyone, but not every self labelled feminist is the stereotypical triggering tumblr user that overdramatises everything.


You said being against feminism makes me against women's rights.  So, yeah.


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## ZacAttackk (Apr 13, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> You said being against feminism makes me against women's rights.  So, yeah.



Feminism exists to better women's rights, however some people use feminism wrongly and to empower themselves, which is the reason as to why you may hate this movement of such. As someone said earlier on in this thread, it's like somebody hating the entire furry fandom and opposing anybody who says they are one just because they have heard of the negative stereotypes and certain individuals who reflect badly upon the true diversity of the fandom.


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## Lasvicus (Apr 13, 2016)

ZacAttackk said:


> Feminism exists to better women's rights, however some people use feminism wrongly and to empower themselves, which is the reason as to why you may hate this movement of such. As someone said earlier on in this thread, it's like somebody hating the entire furry fandom and opposing anybody who says they are one just because they have heard of the negative stereotypes and certain individuals who reflect badly upon the true diversity of the fandom.


Feminism exists for what ever purpose the people within the movement itself says it exists for.  And again, an unfortunate number of people say it exists for truly disgusting and hypocritical reasons.  The 2 (Furries and Feminism) can't really be compared for the purposes of this conversation. One has a goal and pushes for certain political ideas, the other dresses up. Period. I have yet to hear anyone say that they "reject" the furry fandom in the same way that I'm saying that I reject the feminist movement.


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## Maximus B. Panda (Apr 27, 2016)

Lasvicus said:


> The way #3 was done had me rolling XD


Why did the feminist cross the road? To suck my dick.
What do you do when your wife's watch breaks? Nothing, there's a clock on the stove....
Why do brides wear white? So the dishwasher matches the rest of the appliances.
How many women does it take to change a lightbulb? 8, 7 to form a committee and 1 to get her husband to do it.
What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes? Nothing, you already told her twice.


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