# I'm surprised that there are people can't zip



## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 13, 2008)

I just talked to three different people who can't zip files or make them... I mean, I know that not everyone is computer-prolific, but shouldn't zipping be one of the basic skills that should be taught to people?


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Oct 13, 2008)

I can't. So what's your point? Not everyone is as computer savvy as you.


----------



## Firr (Oct 13, 2008)

When I think of a basic skill, I think about E-mailing, surfing the web, and making simple documents.  How would zipping files be considered a basic need?  Most people don't need to do it for everyday needs.


----------



## MaltedMilkBrawls (Oct 13, 2008)

There are people who have trouble understanding how get the cursor to one point of the screen to another point. I think zipping is the least of their problems. 

Honestly though, people learn at different rates and different ways. So learning to zip takes a while for some when it doesn't for others.... particularly when one is not interested in zipping or has no use for it.
oh well :C


----------



## ArielMT (Oct 14, 2008)

I've never had the need for anyone in my support calls to zip up a file, so I can't test the theory that people don't know how.

I have had to tell a few not to open zipped attachments out of the blue, no matter how important they look.


----------



## Wait Wait (Oct 14, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> I just talked to three different people who can't zip files or make them... I mean, I know that not everyone is computer-prolific, but shouldn't zipping be one of the basic skills that should be taught to people?



no
i can honestly say that in 6 years or so of computer use i've only had to zip something like maybe 5 times max


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 14, 2008)

Firr said:


> When I think of a basic skill, I think about E-mailing, surfing the web, and making simple documents.  How would zipping files be considered a basic need?  Most people don't need to do it for everyday needs.



Point taken.

Still, I thought furries want to send tons of pics to each other, and zipping files should handle it. :X


----------



## Wait Wait (Oct 14, 2008)

you never specified furries


----------



## eternal_flare (Oct 14, 2008)

Figuring things out, especially if you're using Windows, is easy as long as you have the ability to read and understand, I mean, even if you can't figure out those easy to comprehend words, readme file and help is there for you. People who would said such thing should only be categorized as lazy, imo.


----------



## ShadowWaterDragon (Oct 14, 2008)

There are many features of computers that are not known to most or taken advantaged of. I didn't even know about zipping files until I one of my friends told me about it. I had never even the considered the concept of zipping files. 

I think that the main problem isn't that people are lazy, though that is a major problem, it's simply that they don't know any better. And if you've never heard of it before chances are they won't know how to do it.


----------



## Dyluck (Oct 14, 2008)

If you've ever right clicked on a file in Windows you should know how to zip.  The command is right there.  Admittedly winzip is pretty shitty, but it does the job if you've never bothered to download winrar.

Also, most people don't need to use zip files.  They're really only used for (mostly illegal) file sharing.


----------



## Eevee (Oct 14, 2008)

the only time I use archives any more is when I grab some project's source code, and even then I deal with source control half the time anyway

there are far more obscure computer features that are far more useful and which far more people don't know about



David M. Awesome said:


> Also, most people don't need to use zip files.  They're really only used for (mostly illegal) file sharing.


only total assholes use archives in torrents  >:(


----------



## Aden (Oct 14, 2008)

Eevee said:


> only total assholes use archives in torrents  >:(



I like when, say, a 5GB HD movie is split into a few rar files so I can download it to a FAT drive.

Also, archiving's really handy for sending around huge-ass print-ready photoshop files...


----------



## Dyluck (Oct 14, 2008)

Eevee said:


> only total assholes use archives in torrents  >:(



Fuck torrents.


----------



## Eevee (Oct 14, 2008)

Aden said:


> I like when, say, a 5GB HD movie is split into a few rar files so I can download it to a FAT drive.


don't use FAT?  



Aden said:


> Also, archiving's really handy for sending around huge-ass print-ready photoshop files...


howso?  binary files barely compress.


----------



## Pi (Oct 14, 2008)

Archiving != compressing eevee

tar = archiver
bzip2 = compressor.


----------



## Bladekitty (Oct 14, 2008)

I only really use my WinRAR when e-mailing/transferring via MSN...

Used to use zip a lot... when I was still running on DOS and using a stiffy drive... back then a little bit of extra compression went a long way XD


----------



## net-cat (Oct 14, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> If you've ever right clicked on a file in Windows you should know how to zip.  The command is right there.  Admittedly winzip is pretty shitty, but it does the job if you've never bothered to download winrar.


Two things there:
1. The ZIP compression built into Windows XP isn't WinZip.
2. WinRAR is also really shitty. (read: Anything with a nag screen is shitty.)



Eevee said:


> the only time I use archives any more is when I grab some project's source code, and even then I deal with source control half the time anyway


.tar.gz and .tar.bz2 ftw!



Aden said:


> I like when, say, a 5GB HD movie is split into a few rar files so I can download it to a FAT drive.


Don't use FAT, especially if you're working with huge files.



Eevee said:


> howso?  binary files barely compress.


False.

Already compressed files barely compressed.

If you couldn't compress binary files, PNG wouldn't work.


----------



## Takun (Oct 14, 2008)

A winrar isn't the OP.


----------



## Skittle (Oct 14, 2008)

Not knowing how to zip is really the least of our problems. I play tech team at my school since ours doesn't do poo.

Not just that, my yearbook teacher/librarian is one of the least computer savvy people I have ever met and our entire program is online.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 14, 2008)

Since I use my webserver a lot, especially for transferring files (screw you, MSN file transfers), I do use archives quite a bit. However, not nearly as much as I used to, and only when I need to send an assload of files. That said, I _never_ use zip. I use rar.

Yes, I know I should be using an open-source solution, but I couldn't be bothered to explain to people how to decompress a tar.bz2 file. I suppose I could use 7zip, but the program's interface has historically been pretty bad. Looking at it now, it's a lot better... But really, I don't archive often enough to care whether I use 7zip or rar or ace or lzh or zip or arj or whatever. rar provides a good median on speed:compression ratio and WinRAR has a pretty decent install base.


----------



## net-cat (Oct 14, 2008)

For the record, both WinRAR and WinZip will open 7z files. And WinRAR opens tarballs.


----------



## Takun (Oct 14, 2008)

A winrar is net-cat!

I love winrar.

For the record, I assumed this had to do with zipping up your pants, which is what I'd be really surprised if someone couldn't do.


----------



## net-cat (Oct 14, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> A winrar is net-cat!


I dun wanna be a winrar. WinRAR sucks. 



Takumi_L said:


> For the record, I assumed this had to do with zipping up your pants, which is what I'd be really surprised if someone couldn't do.


lol


----------



## Eevee (Oct 14, 2008)

Pi said:


> Archiving != compressing eevee
> 
> tar = archiver
> bzip2 = compressor.


yes I know, but I was assuming the GP didn't know this, as it makes even less sense to tar a single psd.  unless I misgrok and e's sending 20 at a time?

then again sending 20 files instead of 1 to a specific target by most methods is no more difficult, so..



net-cat said:


> False.
> 
> Already compressed files barely compressed.
> 
> If you couldn't compress binary files, PNG wouldn't work.


making your format binary in the first place is very often used partly as a form of compression    PNG being a grand example!



Runefox said:


> Yes, I know I should be using an open-source solution, but I couldn't be bothered to explain to people how to decompress a tar.bz2 file.


ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.rarlab.com/rar_archiver.htm

"WinRAR provides complete support for RAR and ZIP archives and is able to unpack CAB, ARJ, LZH, *TAR*, *GZ*, ACE, UUE, *BZ2*, JAR, ISO, *7Z*, Z archives. "



Runefox said:


> and WinRAR has a pretty decent install base.


which is funny since I've never known anyone who paid for it


----------



## net-cat (Oct 14, 2008)

Eevee said:


> making your format binary in the first place is very often used partly as a form of compression    PNG being a grand example!


I'm reasonably certain that PNG, like most bitmap formats, starts life as a binary representation. It seems rather silly to encode a bitmap as text. 

(Vectors on the other hand...)



Eevee said:


> which is funny since I've never known anyone who paid for it


I actually had a crack for it back in the day.

Then I went on a crusade to gut my computer of all cracked programs, replacing them with free (as in beer) alternatives. I was actually mostly successful. (TUGzip before 7zip got to the point where I was willing to use it.)


----------



## Aden (Oct 14, 2008)

Eevee said:


> yes I know, but I was assuming the GP didn't know this, as it makes even less sense to tar a single psd.  unless I misgrok and e's sending 20 at a time?



All I know is that I do the little right-click thing and select "Create archive of [filename]...", and my 20 MB .psd file turns into a 3 MB .zip file. Not trying to throw all you know about computers into an upheaval, here.


----------



## ArielMT (Oct 14, 2008)

net-cat said:


> I'm reasonably certain that PNG, like most bitmap formats, starts life as a binary representation. It seems rather silly to encode a bitmap as text.



esr disagrees: http://www.catb.org/~esr/sng/


----------



## Takun (Oct 14, 2008)

net-cat said:


> I dun wanna be a winrar. WinRAR sucks.
> 
> lol




Too bad.


ps.  You should add the text "FGSFDS" to your avatar


----------



## net-cat (Oct 15, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> ps.  You should add the text "FGSFDS" to your avatar


Epic lazy.


----------



## CyberFoxx (Oct 15, 2008)

People who can't zip? Honestly, how hard is it to type:

```
zip -9 <archive.zip> <files>
```
Then again, I tend not to use Info-Zip's tool for creating archives, preferring 7zip's instead:

```
7z a -mx9 -tzip -mfb258 -mpass15 <archive.zip> <files>
```
I find that 7zip's tweaked deflate routine does a lot better job than the official Info-Zip's. In fact, I've been using it to compress Manga/Comics lately, and it's been compressing better than rar, tgz and tbz2. And the best thing, insanely fast decompression.


----------



## Eevee (Oct 15, 2008)

net-cat said:


> I'm reasonably certain that PNG, like most bitmap formats, starts life as a binary representation. It seems rather silly to encode a bitmap as text.


But it starts life as binary because it's more compact than text.  There's no practical reason bitmap couldn't be [0-9a-f]+ instead of actual bytes.



net-cat said:


> (Vectors on the other hand...)


There is, likewise, nothing _requiring_ vector formats to be textual.  WMF is a vector format, but it's binary.



Aden said:


> All I know is that I do the little right-click thing and select "Create archive of [filename]...", and my 20 MB .psd file turns into a 3 MB .zip file.


Huh.  Okay, that surprises me.  I would've expected Adobe to make (much) better use of space.


----------



## net-cat (Oct 15, 2008)

Eevee said:


> But it starts life as binary because it's more compact than text.  There's no practical reason bitmap couldn't be [0-9a-f]+ instead of actual bytes.


No, there is a practical reason. A binary representation is much more compact. :V



Eevee said:


> Huh.  Okay, that surprises me.  I would've expected Adobe to make (much) better use of space.


... are we thinking of the same Adobe?

I've seen a psd->xcf conversion reduce a filesize by a factor of 100. (xcf is GIMP's native format, for anyone who doesn't know.) I mean, GIMP has fewer features so some reduction wouldn't surprise me. But a factor of 100? What?


----------



## Runefox (Oct 15, 2008)

> For the record, both WinRAR and WinZip will open 7z files. And WinRAR opens tarballs.


Yes, but they won't archive them.



> ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> http://www.rarlab.com/rar_archiver.htm
> 
> "WinRAR provides complete support for RAR and ZIP archives and is able to unpack CAB, ARJ, LZH, TAR, GZ, ACE, UUE, BZ2, JAR, ISO, 7Z, Z archives. "


Buuuut, it will only _archive_ zip and rar, and not any of those other formats.



> which is funny since I've never known anyone who paid for it


Huh? Why do you need to pay for it? It only shows a nag screen, you can keep using it indefinitely; Same with WinZip. Registered users doesn't equal install base.


----------



## net-cat (Oct 16, 2008)

Runefox said:


> Yes, but they won't archive them.


So? If I make a 7z file and send it to someone, they can open it. If someone makes a RAR or ZIP file and sends it to me, I can open it.

The only difference is that my program doesn't try to guilt me into giving them $20 every time I run it. 

Ultimately, if you're willing to put up with the nag screen, more power to you. But I reserve the right to call it silly.


----------



## Eevee (Oct 16, 2008)

net-cat said:


> No, there is a practical reason. A binary representation is much more compact. :V


..exactly  :V  but the format would still work just fine if it were textual



net-cat said:


> ... are we thinking of the same Adobe?
> 
> I've seen a psd->xcf conversion reduce a filesize by a factor of 100.


fffffffff

generally yes I expect professional software costing hundreds of dollars to have had some effort put into it



Runefox said:


> Yes, but they won't archive them.


uh you were just talking about sending archives _you_ create to _other people_



Runefox said:


> Huh? Why do you need to pay for it? It only shows a nag screen, you can keep using it indefinitely; Same with WinZip. Registered users doesn't equal install base.


I seem to faintly recall a time when one or the other or both were trialware, but it has been many years since I've used them

regardless I am bewildered that very many people would tolerate nagware either


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 16, 2008)

Problem solved.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 16, 2008)

Devious: How the hell do you read that?



> Ultimately, if you're willing to put up with the nag screen, more power to you. But I reserve the right to call it silly.


I think you got what I was saying the other way around. Actually, so did Eevee. What I was talking about was if I wanted to archive a 7zip file, I can't do that with Winrar, even if it can extract them just fine. ... Hence being a reason I should switch from Winrar. I guess maybe that's a bit vague.


----------



## ArielMT (Oct 17, 2008)

Runefox said:


> Devious: How the hell do you read that?



Continuous exposure to the font, methinks.  It doesn't look bad, as far as word processing fonts go, but it would look much better (and much more legible) if it was anti-aliased.

If the zip and unzip packages are installed, then FileRoller (the GNOME desktop's default archive manager) can zip and unzip as well, which means zipping in Linux distros like Ubuntu is as easy as a right-click -> "Create Archive."  Even if they're not installed, the same menu and the same program still do the time-tested compressed archive standards *.tar.gz (*.tgz) and *.tar.bz2 in every half-sane Linux desktop distro.


----------



## net-cat (Oct 17, 2008)

ArielMT said:


> If the zip and unzip packages are installed, then FileRoller (the GNOME desktop's default archive manager) can zip and unzip as well, which means zipping in Linux distros like Ubuntu is as easy as a right-click -> "Create Archive."  Even if they're not installed, the same menu and the same program still do the time-tested compressed archive standards *.tar.gz (*.tgz) and *.tar.bz2 in every half-sane Linux desktop distro.


It'll actually do RAR, too if you install rar and unrar packages. (Although I believe the former requires that you purchase a license to work.)


----------



## Eevee (Oct 17, 2008)

Runefox said:


> What I was talking about was if I wanted to archive a 7zip file, I can't do that with Winrar


install 7z or whatever then



ArielMT said:


> It doesn't look bad, as far as word processing fonts go


oh, I heartily disagree.


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 17, 2008)

Runefox said:


> Devious: How the hell do you read that?





ArielMT said:


> Continuous exposure to the font, methinks.  It doesn't look bad, as far as word processing fonts go, but it would look much better (and much more legible) if it was anti-aliased.


Actually, I have some trouble reading it myself. My computer is old and should be retired so I decided to do somethings, some of which were dumb(Like the font).
It's actually an eye-strain really. I just changed it to Arial about an hour or 2 ago.


----------



## Kimmerset (Oct 17, 2008)

Devious Bane said:


> [IMG ]<Gaudy abomination[/ IMG]
> Problem solved.



Oh my Jesus Christ, how are your eyes not bleeding?


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 17, 2008)

Kimmerset said:


> Oh my Jesus Christ, how are your eyes not bleeding?


Who says they weren't half way there?


----------

