# Is Adobe serious? [little Rant]



## FitzOblong (Nov 30, 2022)

I thought I give Photoshop a try, using the 7-day Test Abo. I just rage-quitted that. How is it that Adobe is market leader with broken software? To be more precise, I only attempted to draw two pictures with that, with the first one, that was an imported .tiff I started in Krita, Photoshop froze but in a very weird way, where the UI was still kind of responding, but the picture was completely frozen. I gave it up and continued in Krita.

Now I started a new picture, and PS is constantly slowing down, freezing shortly, and generally not keeping up at all with my pencil. Pressure sensitivity also seemed not work right now. Every time one of these slowdowns happen, I see a spike in GPU usage. I have an RTX3070, this where only two layers, in 2D, why is Photoshop even bothering with GPU rendering? Is a Ryzen 7 5000 series not enough for a little 2D stuff? How is it that neither Gimp nor Krita struggle with that? I don't get it. 

And it is not only Photoshop, at work we have to use Adobe Reader for pdf, on completely underpowered PCs. Wasn't it Adobe who invented the .pdf in the first place? How are they struggling making a decent running program for this?  Maybe they should spend the horrendous amount of money they pull out customers pockets to start cleaning up their programs-codes instead of adding features nobody really needs and removing features that have proven useful for many (referencing the removal of these calibrated colour palettes, not that I needed them, but still). 

Sigh, maybe it is in fact a me problem, but I really cannot be bothered paying about 12€ per month for a software, that is struggling running on my machine, even if it has amazing tools to work with. I am already fighting with myself when trying to be creative, I can't have it fighting with a drawing program, too. 

Sorry.


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## TrixieFox (Nov 30, 2022)

Hey... as a graphic designer theres a few things that happen here... 

1) since the 7 day thing is a demo it may be glitching
2) its your computer... some computers cant handle adobe
My computer I can only have 1 product open at a time or it DRAINS battery


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## FitzOblong (Nov 30, 2022)

Well, but that is really no excuse. 

1) releasing an inferior version as a demo would be pretty stupid...
2) That's exactly my problem. What kind of PC is Adobe expecting? What is that program doing with all the resources? It is still a gaming PC, even if not the best there is. I mean, I can understand when Blender struggles rendering my 3D Modell while also calculating physics, but with a about 4K sized two-layer picture with 3 colours, one of which is transparency? Krita doesn't care, it just works...


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## ben909 (Nov 30, 2022)

image processing takes a lot of computing power,

does you computer have a graphics card, older program versons may of done their processing on the cpu itself mainly, but might use a gpu now, if you had an ok cpu but no gpu it can cause issues, like it does with my fairly high end(mid high) computer with a great processor and ram but an extremely basic gpu

in other things, what are your power settings, are you using most of your ram(often cheepest solution), if you have a hard disk and not an ssd, is it above 80% filled, and has your computer defragmented it(effects things if you are short on ram due to pageing)


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## FitzOblong (Nov 30, 2022)

Spoiler: My PC



AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
32GB DDR4 RAM (2x8GB@ 3200+2x8GB@3333, currently running @2666 because XMP got somehow disabled again)
Aorus Master RTX 3070
Aorus M.2 SSD (PCI) 512GB (~90 GB free)

Pictures are stored on an HDD-Based NAS, now freshly upgraded to 2,5 Gbit Networkspeed. (4 HDD running in Raid 10, theoretical SSD cached, but I never found out if I actually got it working)



I wouldn't mind waiting on actual processing, but all I tried to do is draw a black line on a layer, with maybe a bit of stabilisation.


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## ben909 (Nov 30, 2022)

yea no idea why it's going slow then


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## Inferndragon (Nov 30, 2022)

Photoshop tends to get some latency with how the process things.
It's got worse over the years.

It's the reason i use Sai for actual artwork and then photoshop just to resize things.


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## Deleted member 162282 (Nov 30, 2022)

Photoshop is almost 100% dependent on a single CPU core, the GPU does almost nothing, the resolution and the brush you use make a massive difference, additionally if you're working with lots of layers you're gonna want north of 32GB of ram.

Try using a different brush, if you're using a 3rd party brush try one of the default ones, or one of the official Kyle ones: https://www.adobe.com/au/products/photoshop/brushes.html if you're drawing on resolutions above UHD try 1280x720 and see if the performance improves, unfortunately there could be dozens of reasons, and we'll only be able to guess.

Also while you work, try and monitor your computers resources, perhaps something in the background is hogging your CPU, SSD or RAM, that's all the advice I can give


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## TyraWadman (Nov 30, 2022)

I used the trial with no issues.  Didn't keep it though because I'd rather stick with Sai 2. Simpler and doesn't require all these extra downloads. 

I know photoshop could never handle large strokes with a higher quality canvas. Like taking a 1000+ px sized brush and scribbling would take time for it to catch up. Otherwise it was normal.


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## FitzOblong (Nov 30, 2022)

@all: Thanks for trying to solve the problem. I have seen some pretty nice stuff PS can do all by itself. I guess it is more picture manipulation program than it is a drawing program by now. I cannot go back to test things, since I have already ended the trial, I would have to pay for it now. 

Nevertheless, I am still a bit salty about this, since, again, Krita doesn't chuck at all. I am far from professional enough to really need the additional features it offers. I just think it is pathetic from Adobe handling resources that bad, and they certainly do in my use case. Or maybe I just completly missed something here, also possible.



Daurvn said:


> Also while you work, try and monitor your computers resources, perhaps something in the background is hogging your CPU, SSD or RAM, that's all the advice I can give



I do still use 8Gadget (the little Windows 7 Apps), I have my PC stats always on my second monitor. There was nothing suspicious there, only the weird GPU-usage spikes when it slowed down for a moment.


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## Deleted member 162282 (Nov 30, 2022)

FitzOblong said:


> @all: Thanks for trying to solve the problem. I have seen some pretty nice stuff PS can do all by itself. I guess it is more picture manipulation program than it is a drawing program by now. I cannot go back to test things, since I have already ended the trial, I would have to pay for it now.
> 
> Nevertheless, I am still a bit salty about this, since, again, Krita doesn't chuck at all. I am far from professional enough to really need the additional features it offers. I just think it is pathetic from Adobe handling resources that bad, and they certainly do in my use case. Or maybe I just completly missed something here, also possible.
> 
> ...


If you do figure out the issue, please post it, in the chance it could help others in the future.


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## Pomorek (Dec 1, 2022)

Obviously a wild guess at this point but it smells like a driver issue to me. Doesn't even have to be anything serious but maybe the current version of PS doesn't like the current version of your graphics driver. I've seen stranger things than that happening. And these usage spikes... Such GPU shouldn't even budge.

Are you on Windows 11 by chance, maybe that's where the problem resides? 

And about big companies releasing unstable software, Autodesk seems to take the cake. One would think that their 3D programs, which cost arm and leg and are industry standard since decades should be really well polished by now. Except it doesn't appear to be so, over the years I've read enough complaints about Max and Maya being prone to crashing, having long-running bugs and unreasonable resource usage. So I'm not surprised at all that Adobe might have screwed something up.


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## BooTheHamster (Dec 2, 2022)

Real talk, unless you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO USE AN ADOBE PRODUCT... don't.  There's very little they do that someone else doesn't do better, with fewer strings attached.

Paint Tool SAI, Krita, Rebelle, ArtRage, etc. are all vastly better options.  Adobe stuff has had issues for years and years, it's a resource hog full of crap you'll never use that jacks up the price insanely and then there's the SaaS model Adobe is shifting to, which is hot garbage.

If you have a Wacom, I will say Wacom drivers are known for basically uninstalling themselves on a whim.  Hell if I remember exactly why, or if it's tied to Adobe software in any way.


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## ConorHyena (Dec 2, 2022)

PS' trial version worked on my PCs with limited power perfectly reasonable, but is is a very powerful program with its fair share of resource usage especially on large things. 

In the end imo all the big drawing programs (Sai, PS, Clip studio paint, krita and such) tend to give similar results, it's beneficial to stick one one and just learn that one,. 

I personally went from krita to CSP because of my tremors and the brush stabilisation, but krita works just fine as well.


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## BooTheHamster (Dec 2, 2022)

ConorHyena said:


> PS' trial version worked on my PCs with limited power perfectly reasonable, but is is a very powerful program with its fair share of resource usage especially on large things.
> 
> In the end imo all the big drawing programs (Sai, PS, Clip studio paint, krita and such) tend to give similar results, it's beneficial to stick one one and just learn that one,.
> 
> I personally went from krita to CSP because of my tremors and the brush stabilisation, but krita works just fine as well.


I'll second CSP here (it goes on sale relatively frequently), it's spoken of highly by multiple people.

For mimicking traditional art, ArtRage and Rebelle are decent options.  The one thing Photoshop etc. is good for, is figuring out what you want to do, then once you figure that out you discard it and pick a tool/program that does that well and you feel comfortable using/learning.


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## FitzOblong (Dec 2, 2022)

BooTheHamster said:


> If you have a Wacom, I will say Wacom drivers are known for basically uninstalling themselves on a whim.  Hell if I remember exactly why, or if it's tied to Adobe software in any way.


That’s Interesting. The Huion driver actually does something similar, where on one random day it just doesn’t recognise the tablet anymore. Only solution: fresh reinstall.



BooTheHamster said:


> For mimicking traditional art, ArtRage and Rebelle are decent options.  The one thing Photoshop etc. is good for, is figuring out what you want to do, then once you figure that out you discard it and pick a tool/program that does that well and you feel comfortable using/learning.


Good to know. In terms of traditional art, I actually made a quite convincing looking pencil drawing in Krita. I guess I will stick with that program, as long as I don’t mess up a random setting, again, it works quite good for me at this point.

I also was quite good with Gimp, back when I didn’t had a drawing Tablet, but for some reason the developers decided to completely mess up the UI’s design and now I have to search for every tool that once was easily available…


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## TyraWadman (Dec 2, 2022)

The reason why your tablet suddenly stops working is likely due to a driver update. It's their weird way if communicating that there is one. Or that's how I see it. 

Like windows...


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## BooTheHamster (Dec 2, 2022)

FitzOblong said:


> That’s Interesting. The Huion driver actually does something similar, where on one random day it just doesn’t recognise the tablet anymore. Only solution: fresh reinstall.


The Wacom driver issue was especially egregious in Win7, I'm not super familiar with Huion.  Ever since Wacom's patent on that no-battery stylus design lapsed a lot of really good alternatives to Wacom have emerged, though, so if you're not dead-set on a Wacom product you don't have to wrangle with their peccadilloes.


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## ben909 (Dec 2, 2022)

... from someone with a battery powered touchscreen stylus, it does not seem to be an issue, is the other one better?, aside from having to change the battery after a long time?

although i cannot seem to draw no matter how much i try, so my use of it may be different


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## BooTheHamster (Dec 2, 2022)

ben909 said:


> ... from someone with a battery powered touchscreen stylus, it does not seem to be an issue, is the other one better?, aside from having to change the battery after a long time?
> 
> although i cannot seem to draw no matter how much i try, so my use of it may be different


It's a certain amount of personal preference and hassle tolerance, to be fair.


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## FitzOblong (Dec 2, 2022)

TyraWadman said:


> The reason why your tablet suddenly stops working is likely due to a driver update. It's their weird way if communicating that there is one. Or that's how I see it.
> 
> Like windows...


huion itself stated that it was likely due to some .DLL somewhere in system32 getting corrupted. 



ben909 said:


> ... from someone with a battery powered touchscreen stylus, it does not seem to be an issue, is the other one better?, aside from having to change the battery after a long time?
> 
> although i cannot seem to draw no matter how much i try, so my use of it may be different


 
I noticed basically no difference between the battery powered pencil and the non battery powered one, except that the unpowered one had tilt detection (which actually feels more like technical weakness sold as a feature). It likely is just a convenience thing.


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## Pomorek (Dec 2, 2022)

FitzOblong said:


> I also was quite good with Gimp, back when I didn’t had a drawing Tablet, but for some reason the developers decided to completely mess up the UI’s design and now I have to search for every tool that once was easily available…


The plague of "modern minimalist UI"... _"It's colorful! It's skeuomorphic! It's convenient for the user! Therefore it must be gone, and be replaced with non-distinguishable monochrome scribbles." _
Blender 3D was also hit with this nonsense a while ago. And where previously I could distinguish things at a split-second glance thanks to their colored icons, I got forced to read text labels again...



BooTheHamster said:


> The Wacom driver issue was especially egregious in Win7, I'm not super familiar with Huion. Ever since Wacom's patent on that no-battery stylus design lapsed a lot of really good alternatives to Wacom have emerged, though, so if you're not dead-set on a Wacom product you don't have to wrangle with their peccadilloes.


That's strange. I was using Wacom under Win7. Alongside with old-ass tablet from Pentagram (basically Huion before it became Huion). And their drivers never uninstalled themselves, neither conflicted.



ben909 said:


> ... from someone with a battery powered touchscreen stylus, it does not seem to be an issue, is the other one better?, aside from having to change the battery after a long time?


Yeah, not much of a difference. Except that the stylus with battery is obviously bulkier and noticeably heavier. I do prefer the one without because of this but it's not a deal breaker.


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## BooTheHamster (Dec 2, 2022)

Pomorek said:


> That's strange. I was using Wacom under Win7. Alongside with old-ass tablet from Pentagram (basically Huion before it became Huion). And their drivers never uninstalled themselves, neither conflicted.


Huh, wonder why.


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## Pomorek (Dec 3, 2022)

BooTheHamster said:


> Huh, wonder why.


Yeah, can only guess. So maybe because that's also an old Wacom Bamboo and as such it was no longer getting any driver-breaking updates.

Now I kept using that Bamboo under Linux and so far it just works.


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## WanderingAimlessly (Dec 5, 2022)

>Adobe
Don't use it if you don't need it. If you do, pirate it.


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