# Sonic-style furries?



## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

What do you guys think of Sonic-style furries?

I kind of like them. Something people like about big heads for some reason.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 7, 2013)

If FAF were oil, this thread would be a lit match...


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

Wait, what?


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## Falaffel (Jun 7, 2013)

What about them..?


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

What are your general opinions of that kind of furries?


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## Falaffel (Jun 7, 2013)

They're cartoon anthros. The fuck do you want to be said about them? Am I missing something?


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

Anything at all (Like them? Dislike them? Draw them? etc.). This is a thread to discuss any shit at all related to Sonic-style anthros.


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## Seekrit (Jun 7, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Anything at all (Like them? Dislike them? Draw them? etc.). This is a thread to discuss any shit at all related to Sonic-style anthros.



There really isn't much to say. Some like them, others hate them, and most people gave nary a fuck.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh, gee, *how* could I miss that?


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## Ozriel (Jun 7, 2013)

Ugghhh...Sonic recolor furs.. >.>


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## Seekrit (Jun 7, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Oh, gee, *how* could I miss that?



Consider making a thread that leaves room for discussion sometime. Give your opinions in the OP, make some points, ask a few questions.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 7, 2013)

[yt]8fGFjoeyc6I[/yt]
This sums it up.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

*hammer noises* Well, there we are. Added my opinion.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay to be more accurate,
from what I have seen, being a sonic furry increases your odds of representing the worst aspects of the fandom by a long shot, and oddly often have some sort of social disability.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

I have a social disability, but it's not *that* bad.


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## Heliophobic (Jun 7, 2013)

I've seen a few artists manage to make the Sonic style look bearable. JayAxer, AngeltheCatgirl, etc.

It's pretty uncommon, though, and more often than not looks like garbage.


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## Falaffel (Jun 7, 2013)

My honest opinion:
like whatever the fuck you want, just don't go flaunting it around places where its looked down on.
bloody hell, it ain't that hard.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

How do they look like garbage? Examples please.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 7, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I have a social disability, but it's not *that* bad.


Maybe not for you because you seem to do something about it. 
Allot of them....
don't.
at all.


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## Falaffel (Jun 7, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> How do they look like garbage? Examples please.


Are you defending sonic-recolours?


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

No, I just needed specific examples of "garbage". Guess you don't need to show me.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 7, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> No, I just needed specific examples of "garbage". Guess you don't need to show me.


 Ugh I had a blog that just postes pages of it...... was banned for "harassing and ebullying" apparently.


EDIT: as an apolagy accept this
[yt]vI2oLD8QsVA[/yt]

I HAVE VIDEOS FOR EVERYTHING.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

Heh heh, what a video. XD


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## Echoshock (Jun 7, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> I HAVE VIDEOS FOR EVERYTHING.



  Ahh nipples the enchilada XD


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## Duality Jack (Jun 7, 2013)

NSFW-ish
[yt]1-QZ8FxqQoE[/yt]
Well It had to be done.

THat's all for now folks


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## Seekrit (Jun 7, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> -glowrioos-



oh man

ORRRRRRRRRIGINAL THE CHARACTER


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## Lauralien (Jun 7, 2013)

Sonic-style eyes weird me out.

I am suddenly thankful that my childhood Sonic Art Phase was a short one...and that I didn't make any sonic "OCs."


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## Echoshock (Jun 7, 2013)

Lauralien said:


> Sonic-style eyes weird me out.
> 
> I am suddenly thankful that my childhood Sonic Art Phase was a short one...and that I didn't make any sonic "OCs."



That's really really disturbing.


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## Harbinger (Jun 7, 2013)

Always thought Sonic characters look daft, especially with the eyes.


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## Tigercougar (Jun 7, 2013)

Apparently I'm the only person that realizes that 'Sonic' style is really 'modernized Felix the Cat' style.


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## ~OrionOtter~ (Jun 7, 2013)

I just don't like them... i do not judge someone who has a sonic style character, I just think they are cheesy and just take away many levels of creativity that could have been available. Then again, I never liked sonic that much.


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## Machine (Jun 7, 2013)

Sonichu is an accurate representation of every Sonic "OC" ever. :I


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## Troj (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't get the obsession with Sonic.

And, for what it's worth, a sizable percentage of the people I know who are obsessed with Sonic are on the autism spectrum. Do with that what you will.


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## Heliophobic (Jun 7, 2013)

Troj said:


> I don't get the obsession with Sonic.
> 
> And, for what it's worth, a sizable percentage of the people I know who are obsessed with Sonic are on the autism spectrum. Do with that what you will.



Sonic statistically tends to attract autistics. Guess it's just the bright colors and cookie-cutter facial expressions. You'll notice a lot of fandoms with a high concentration of autistics share those traits. It's strange.


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## Seekrit (Jun 7, 2013)

Troj said:


> And, for what it's worth, a sizable percentage of the people I know who are obsessed with Sonic are on the autism spectrum. Do with that what you will.



Troj, what have you done D:


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## Falaffel (Jun 7, 2013)

secretfur said:


> Troj, what have you done D:


I'm making popcorn, want some?
I tried to do something at the beginning but OP kept pushing :C


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 7, 2013)

I could've done worse.


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## Falaffel (Jun 7, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I could've done worse.


Well don't. Just. Don't.


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## Machine (Jun 7, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Sonic statistically tends to attract autistics. Guess it's just the bright colors and *cookie-cutter facial expressions*. You'll notice a lot of fandoms with a high concentration of autistics share those traits. It's strange.


Complex facial expressions are hard to decipher, man. :V


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## Batty Krueger (Jun 7, 2013)

I started off as a sonic fur, but that was aaaaaagges ago.  So I still have a warm spot in my chest cavity for them.


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## Karloz (Jun 7, 2013)

Look up your first name in google, add "the hedgehog" at the end.


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## Grimfang999 (Jun 7, 2013)

Karloz said:


> Look up your first name in google, add "the hedgehog" at the end.



And suddenly we have a fgame. Goodie.

I got this


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## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

Karloz said:


> Look up your first name in google, add "the hedgehog" at the end.



IRL name got this somehow and meet Secret the Hedgehog.


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## Taralack (Jun 8, 2013)

secretfur said:


> IRL name got this somehow and meet Secret the Hedgehog.



That first one isn't so bad, but that second one... let's not even go into how cringe that is.


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## Lauralien (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh, I've played this game before.  It's terrifying.



secretfur said:


> IRL name got this somehow and meet Secret the Hedgehog.


Pfffahahaha!   
_"~~Hey, Shadow~~ --==**^.~**==--"_

Brb, gotta vomit.

And....yeah.    What's...what's going on with the legs? Is she supposed to be wearing a dress?   Shall I go on an epic journey to find all those other hedgehogs she is friends with?  Which one will she hook up with, I wonder?


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## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

Lauralien said:


> And....yeah.    What's...what's going on with the legs? Is she supposed to be wearing a dress?   Shall I go on an epic journey to find all those other hedgehogs she is friends with?  Which one will she hook up with, I wonder?



It took some time to recognise those shapes as a 'person', and I use that term loosely. Looks like she's squatting for a dump.

I hope she hooks up with Mickel Sadie Ethan, who sounds like the first transsexual hedgehog OC.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 8, 2013)

Jesus fucking christ. 

This is some serious Enoby Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way level art shits.


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## Lauralien (Jun 8, 2013)

I just about lost my mind when I glanced at the rest of her 'gallery' on that Disney website.  Shameless teenaged girl shit abounds.

Congratulations, random person, your embarrassing youth has been immortalized on the internet.  Whether you like it or not.



Mokushi said:


> This is some serious Enoby Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way level art shits.



I'm not sure if I regret looking that name up...or if I want to read all 44 chapters of that garbage for laughs.


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## Falaffel (Jun 8, 2013)

I got ... that's some Mary Sue ass shit right there.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 8, 2013)

Lauralien said:


> I'm not sure if I regret looking that name up...or if I want to read all 44 chapters of that garbage for laughs.


 It hurts so bad it somehow is amusing. Like a train-wreck in slow motion while getting lemon juice in paper-cuts.


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## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

I'm bored so I'm looking up Family Member the Hedgehogs.

Meet my bro, my mother, and dear papa.


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## Duality Jack (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh god. Now this makes me want to fuck around with scripts and make a Mary-sue generator.


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## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Oh god. Now this makes me want to fuck around with scripts and make a Mary-sue generator.



It would provide hours of that special kind of slack-jawed wtf only Mary Sues can bring. Oh and meet Granda Noel and Granny Maureen! Or as close I can get with their names. This will make the most disgusting family portrait when I'm done.

Read the text on that first one, JUST FUCKING READ IT


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## Karloz (Jun 8, 2013)

Grimfang999 said:


> And suddenly we have a fgame. Goodie.



Done.


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## Distorted (Jun 8, 2013)

Their eyes are weird, but I don't really care as long as I get to play the video games...


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## Riho (Jun 8, 2013)

Distorted said:


> Their eyes are weird, but I don't really care as long as I get to play the video games...


But the video games are the worst part.


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## Namba (Jun 8, 2013)

BARF


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## Distorted (Jun 8, 2013)

Riho said:


> But the video games are the worst part.



Sonic 06 is NOT the entirety of the Sonic franchise. I enjoy all his games, but that one made me not believe for quite some time. That and Sonic Heroes...


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## Grimfang999 (Jun 8, 2013)

For all the flak sonic 06 get, sonic heroes was fucking awful. I tried playing it lately. The controls are bad, the camera is bad, game is glitchy as fuck (I dont know how many times I died trying to jump into a fucking cannon, landing in it perfectly, then dying istead), you have to repeat the same levels four times over, etc etc.

Meanwhile, people hate on shadow the hedgehog, but that game was pretty good in comparison. They FINALLY sorted out the homo jump, and while you did have to repeat some levels, at least they were playable.


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## Falaffel (Jun 8, 2013)

I played shadow the hedgehog all the way through. If you asked what it was about I'd say 'idonfuckinkno' but it was still somewhat fun. Rediculous, but fun. Sonic 06 made me vomit rainbows after the first 10 minutes. Then I broke the disk and buried that shit.


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## TransformerRobot (Jun 8, 2013)

Whoever made Sonic 06 should've been fired, unless they haven't been already.


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## Batty Krueger (Jun 8, 2013)

Riho said:


> But the video games are the worst part.



What da hell u talk bout the originals were tits.  I remeber when the genesis first came out and parents got me it for xmas.  I shat myself I was so exited


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## Falaffel (Jun 8, 2013)

I believe what happened to sonic 06 was they rushed release when they knew it wasn't finished.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 8, 2013)

God damn, I actually watched "sonic the hedgehog the movie" aka every single cutscene in Sonic '06 just yesterday. I laughed so many times, and honestly I think I laughed the hardest when sonic "died". It seemed like it had a good story but honestly I can't give Sega an excuse for the romance between Elise and Sonic. I'm actually a big Sonic fan but I cannot get over how awful '06 is (just judging from the ridiculous amount of glitches). I feel really bad for Sega though, with their rushed release and all.


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## Riho (Jun 8, 2013)

d.batty said:


> What da hell u talk bout the originals were tits.  I remeber when the genesis first came out and parents got me it for xmas.  I shat myself I was so exited


Please calm down Mr. Bat.
I was thinking about the 3D games.
Even I like those ol' Genesis games. Especially that music that played when you were drowning in the labyrinth. *shiver*
Shit almost gave me a cardiac arrest.


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## TheMetalVelocity (Jun 8, 2013)

A lot of them are just recolors. They can get boring and unoriginal in general anyways. For god sakes, Espio who is a reptile has a god damn mammal muzzle. Some characters can be cute and fun to look at, but a lot of others can feel cheap in some ways. This is why I can't stand MLP, all the fucking ponies look too identical, especially the fan made ones.


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## arctobear (Jun 8, 2013)

Now I'm curious what Arcto the Hedgehog would look like, but since I have no vision I wouldn't be able to make sense of it.


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## Seekrit (Jun 8, 2013)

arctobear said:


> Now I'm curious what Arcto the Hedgehog would look like, but since I have no vision I wouldn't be able to make sense of it.



Even with vision I can't make sense of these abominations.


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## Armaetus (Jun 9, 2013)

I hate them, they are by no means original by latching onto a famous IP for their ridiculous fantasies.


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## Batty Krueger (Jun 10, 2013)

Riho said:


> Please calm down Mr. Bat.
> I was thinking about the 3D games.
> Even I like those ol' Genesis games. Especially that music that played when you were drowning in the labyrinth. *shiver*
> Shit almost gave me a cardiac arrest.



Yeah that always put me into panic mode


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## Zabrina (Jun 10, 2013)

All I can remember about Sonic such a short period after I woke up is waking up to some horrid Sonic chibi show with voice actors that make me want to vomit up eggplants. 

Needless to say, I couldn't find the remote.


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## septango (Jun 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Whoever made Sonic 06 should've been fired, unless they haven't been already.


  the people responsible for the canning have been canned......


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## Jonchen (Nov 10, 2013)

I don't really like them. I think, I don't like this style of drawing.  But I used to like it wen I was about ten.


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## chesse20 (Nov 10, 2013)

Grimfang999 said:


> For all the flak sonic 06 get, sonic heroes was fucking awful. I tried playing it lately. The controls are bad, the camera is bad, game is glitchy as fuck (I dont know how many times I died trying to jump into a fucking cannon, landing in it perfectly, then dying istead), you have to repeat the same levels four times over, etc etc.
> 
> Meanwhile, people hate on shadow the hedgehog, but that game was pretty good in comparison. They FINALLY sorted out the homo jump, and while you did have to repeat some levels, at least they were playable.


The only good sonic game in my opinion is sonic all stars racing transformed.
ot: I saw someone on da that could draw very good sonic looking chars once but I don't like the sonic art style in general


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## Mr. Sparta (Nov 10, 2013)

One time I drew a Sonic-ified mewtwo. All I did really is change the eyes, though.


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## Antronach (Nov 10, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> One time I drew a Sonic-ified mewtwo. All I did really is change the eyes, though.



That's all sonic characters ever are; furries with connected eyes.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 10, 2013)

Sonic has its own distinct style. Anthropomorphic animals? That's easy. Sega actually took animals and made original looks for a lot of them. You could argue that Knuckles does not look like an actual Echidna, but you could also argue that it shows a bit of creativity on their part. ...That, or you could just say they made an animaloid character and chose the name of a random animal and passed it off that way.

That being said, when done right, Sonic style characters can be quite cool.



Antronach said:


> That's all sonic characters ever are; furries with connected eyes.



Not true. Sonic has its own style that often people mess up. Like  for example, Aardvarks. When people draw Aardvark fan characters, they  often give them the long nose, which contradicts the style of the other  characters, especially Knuckles.


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## Riho (Nov 10, 2013)

Has anyone else noticed that Sonic has two pupils but only one eye? 
Think about it.


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## Kangamutt (Nov 10, 2013)

Riho said:


> Has anyone else noticed that Sonic has two pupils but only one eye?
> Think about it.


I don't want to! How does he depth perception!?

It is a little disturbing if you look too much into it though.


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## Gator (Nov 10, 2013)

Cannot stand the sight of 'em, TBH.  I wish I could filter them out of my internet.


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## Aulendra (Nov 16, 2013)

Though not really a Sonic "fan" I designed a few for funsies in the past - an Eastern Dragon, a Kangaroo  and a Deer - but the community made me run screaming in 5 minutes.



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Sonic has its own distinct style. Anthropomorphic animals? That's easy. Sega actually took animals and made original looks for a lot of them. You could argue that Knuckles does not look like an actual Echidna, but you could also argue that it shows a bit of creativity on their part. ...That, or you could just say they made an animaloid character and chose the name of a random animal and passed it off that way.
> 
> That being said, when done right, Sonic style characters can be quite cool.
> 
> Not true. Sonic has its own style that often people mess up. Like  for example, Aardvarks. When people draw Aardvark fan characters, they  often give them the long nose, which contradicts the style of the other  characters, especially Knuckles.



Sonic's style is fun and cartoony, but it is NOT original. It's literally the 1920's "Clown Mask" style of Felix the Cat and company with bright colors and edgy Anime spikes glued on. Mickey Mouse looks a bit different these days, but if you look at the classic style he was drawn in, it was very similar. 

If someone wants to make an original Sonic style OC they should look to _that _for inspiration, not GoFast the orange and blue HedgeFox that is the product of ~*Sonic and Tails' Luv*~


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## Ruethel (Nov 16, 2013)

Sonic-styled furs aren't my favorite, but as long as its not being shoved down my throat like a big sweaty dick, then I don't really care.

There are creepy sonic furs, sure, but its not like there aren't creepy regular furs too.

The only major comment I have on Sonic Furs is that Sonic fursuits almost always are far more cringeworthy than normal fursuits (saw a 40 year old dressed up as sonic walking around a con with his mom once, that just hurt to see, and no, he wasn't mentally handicapped).


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## VGmaster9 (Nov 20, 2013)

I can dig Sonic style furries depending on the style.

http://i35.tinypic.com/259jyg5.jpg


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Nov 20, 2013)

VGmaster9 said:


> I can dig Sonic style furries depending on the style.
> 
> http://i35.tinypic.com/259jyg5.jpg



Nightmare fuel


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## Ruethel (Nov 20, 2013)

Antronach said:


> That's all sonic characters ever are; furries with connected eyes.



Nope, just furries with goggles!


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## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 20, 2013)

Aulendra said:


> Sonic's style is fun and cartoony, but it is NOT original. It's literally the 1920's "Clown Mask" style of Felix the Cat and company with bright colors and edgy Anime spikes glued on. Mickey Mouse looks a bit different these days, but if you look at the classic style he was drawn in, it was very similar.



Even then, I'd still say it had more-or-less its own style. The use of vibrant in-your-face colors wasn't something common with other cartoon characters. Plus, I cannot think of any old human character that Robotnik could be compared to.



Ruethel said:


> There are creepy sonic furs, sure, but its not like there aren't creepy regular furs too.



Hey. There's creepy everything out there. Even humans. O_O



Ruethel said:


> Nope, just furries with goggles!



Anyone else think he looks kind of cute without the iris?


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## Toshabi (Nov 20, 2013)

Sonichu.


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## Abbi Normal (Nov 20, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Even then, I'd still say it had more-or-less its own style. The use of vibrant in-your-face colors wasn't something common with other cartoon characters. Plus, I cannot think of any old human character that Robotnik could be compared to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




First, the iris is the coloured part that's left, I believe. What he removed is the white.

Second, I'm going to have to _*dramatically*_ disagree that using vibrant colours was an innovation of any kind, in animation, video games, or anything else. Bright, vibrant, usually primary colours is a visual staple of pretty much every single thing made for children. I considered linking things that were older or concurrent with the golden age of the Sonic franchise, up to modern things, but I'd have to link nearly every. Single. Child-oriented item or piece of media since at least the invention of colour film and photography. So the idea that brightly coloured cartoon characters are a Sonic thing is, not to put too fine a point on it, absurd. It's not innovative, it's a basic common-denominator trait of children's media and always has been. There has never been a time when cartoon characters weren't brightly coloured mostly in primary hues, even before colour film (ie, comic books. Superman was bright blue and super-fast before it was cool. ) And besides, even ignoring that the colour scheme is cartoon-standard and the visual aesthetic cribbed from early animation, even if we pretend that Sonic's character design is as original as all that, it doesn't change the fact they only ever actually designed one character, then just changed the hairstyle and recoloured them over and over. Every single character has the same body type as every other character the same gender, they all have two eyes in one the same shape, they hall have a same pink (or occaisonally white) mouth area with a little black nose, and wear oversized shoes and gloves. The problem with Knuckles isn't that he doesn't look like an echidna. It's that if you weren't told otherwise, you'd just think he (and everyone else except maybe Tails) was just a hedgehog with a different hairstyle. Using a single design for 50 characters is the opposite of innovative and original, even if that character was actually an original design by you.

As for Robotnik, I'm not sure what you're saying is so special about him. He's just a cyborg Adipose Rex, a trope as old as King Henry VIII...

I guess I liked Sonic a little when I was in grade school, but even then I was totally willing to admit that innovation and originality wasn't where it shines. It was an original and innovative GAME at its time, but the universe of the cartoons is at best visually simplistic and sort of cliche. I'm not saying you can't like it, or that its totally worthless, but it's a little disingenious to pretend it has strengths it doesn't, when it has strengths of its own unrelated to those. It's like saying you like ice cream because it's as warm as hot chocolate: ice cream is really great and super-tasty, and warm hot chocolate is also great and tasty, but that doesn't mean ice cream is the same as a cup of hot chocolate, and you enjoy them for different and utterly unrelated reasons.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 20, 2013)

As long as it's drawn well, I can appreciate about anything even stuff I really DON'T tolerate. Like Touhou...
Sonic style is no different. The problem is it's simplicity. It's too simple to exploit. Much like Eevee anthros, fucking ponies, animu lolis, and really anything else that follows a basic template in entertainment. Hell, I'll even agree with VGMaster (though not with that example) and say some of the suggestive-XXX stuff is rather nice (Sif and Supernitro come to mind). I'd rather people try and do their own thing if they make fanart of anything, but all I say is if you must use a set style, do it justice. Please.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 20, 2013)

Abbi Normal said:


> First, the iris is the coloured part that's left, I believe. What he removed is the white.
> 
> Second, I'm going to have to _*dramatically*_ disagree that using vibrant colours was an innovation of any kind, in animation, video games, or anything else. Bright, vibrant, usually primary colours is a visual staple of pretty much every single thing made for children. I considered linking things that were older or concurrent with the golden age of the Sonic franchise, up to modern things, but I'd have to link nearly every. Single. Child-oriented item or piece of media since at least the invention of colour film and photography. So the idea that brightly coloured cartoon characters are a Sonic thing is, not to put too fine a point on it, absurd. It's not innovative, it's a basic common-denominator trait of children's media and always has been. There has never been a time when cartoon characters weren't brightly coloured mostly in primary hues, even before colour film (ie, comic books. Superman was bright blue and super-fast before it was cool. ) And besides, even ignoring that the colour scheme is cartoon-standard and the visual aesthetic cribbed from early animation, even if we pretend that Sonic's character design is as original as all that, it doesn't change the fact they only ever actually designed one character, then just changed the hairstyle and recoloured them over and over. Every single character has the same body type as every other character the same gender, they all have two eyes in one the same shape, they hall have a same pink (or occaisonally white) mouth area with a little black nose, and wear oversized shoes and gloves. The problem with Knuckles isn't that he doesn't look like an echidna. It's that if you weren't told otherwise, you'd just think he (and everyone else except maybe Tails) was just a hedgehog with a different hairstyle. Using a single design for 50 characters is the opposite of innovative and original, even if that character was actually an original design by you.
> 
> ...



Never said it was "innovative" just that it was different. Usually, it's the clothes that are brightly colored, not the fur. Also, the characters are not just the same character with a different haircut and color. That just sounds a bit biased to say. You're forgetting Vector, Charmy, Big, etc. And that is if you only count characters without average build. Really, most cartoon styles aren't much more varied. As for Knuckles not looking like an echidna, most people would likely not think about what an echidna is when seeing him. ...And will generally find out what an echidna is eventually.

You can say it doesn't shine in originallity, but I still think it's more original than made out to be. For the most part, I think you're just being biased. ...Like most people I've noticed online. It seems so rare to find people who AREN'T biased against Sonic.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Sonic fans always pull the bias card. Except me. I'm like the only one.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

To be honest, XoPachi, people who aren't biased towards Sonic The Hedgehog feel very, *very* rare. I cannot blame people who would say someone is being biased towards the series.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

...

But Abbi isn't being biased.


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## Vaelarsa (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Sonic fans always pull the bias card. Except me. I'm like the only one.


I don't pull the bias card.


Sonic can be done okay as a style, but people really need to avoid making character after character after character that is pretty much Recolor the Hedgehogâ„¢. 
You can draw their snouts different, their eyes different, their ears different, their tails different, their snouts different, give them a different height, give them their own unique gloves / shoes / etc.
Hell, even make a new form for them, entirely, while still incorporating the Sonic series' stylistic themes. A squid character, for instance, should not look like a hedgehog but with tentacles.

I'm not saying that the character should shout "special snowflake" or "Mary Sue," but there is wiggle room for variation, and not just Tails' girlfriend, Purple Tails.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> I don't pull the bias card.
> 
> 
> Sonic can be done okay as a style, but people really need to avoid making character after character after character that is pretty much Recolor the Hedgehogâ„¢.
> ...



You forgot to mention making their snouts look different. XD But yeah, I notice a lot of OCs that are that shallow.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Nov 21, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> You forgot to mention making their snouts look different. XD But yeah, I notice a lot of OCs that are that shallow.


Whoops. Guess this is what happens when I write things first thing in the morning.

Speaking of Sonic OCs, I hate when people don't follow the game's naming scheme when designing an actual, legitimate fan character.
There is no reason why characters would have names like "Jessica the Hedgehog" or "Sabrina the Cat" or "Zelvaranynna the Echidnafox". 
My OC, for instance, is named "Indigo." Why? Because that's what color she is. Because that makes sense in canon. She does not need to be called some other bullshit, like "Angel." That would be *stupid*.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> I don't pull the bias card.



NOT A TRUE SANIC FAN


----------



## Vaelarsa (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> NOT A TRUE SANIC FAN


IM SRY.
I TRY HARDUR.
I MAEK OC PURPLE ECHIDNA IS KNUCKLS GF. SHE IS NAEM STARLIGHT.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> Whoops. Guess this is what happens when I write things first thing in the morning.
> 
> Speaking of Sonic OCs, I hate when people don't follow the game's naming scheme when designing an actual, legitimate fan character.
> There is no reason why characters would have names like "Jessica the Hedgehog" or "Sabrina the Cat" or "Zelvaranynna the Echidnafox".
> My OC, for instance, is named "Indigo." Why? Because that's what color she is. Because that makes sense in canon. She does not need to be called some other bullshit, like "Angel." That would be *stupid*.



What about Amy the Hedgehog?


----------



## Vaelarsa (Nov 21, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> What about Amy the Hedgehog?


Amy *Rose* the Hedgehog.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Oh yes Amy... @w@


----------



## Carnau (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't mind Sonic style inspired fursonas. I actually have a freedom fighter OC who lives in the sonic universe but I digress~
There's really a catch to the whole thing. Recolors are definitely a no-no, it shows others that you're an art thief who was too lazy and/or creative to make your own. I've seen some MLP inspired fursonas as well -many aren't even ponies and they still come out okay.

But like everyone else stated, you'll like what you'll like and it's not anyone else's business.


----------



## Abbi Normal (Nov 21, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Never said it was "innovative" just that it was different.


Those  sound an awful lot like equivalent terms. In order for something to be  different, you must have innovated something different about it, and in  order for something to be innovative, it must be different.



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Usually, it's the clothes that are brightly colored, not the fur.


Where are you getting that idea? It's just observably not true, brightly coloured fur has always been plentiful. I mean, c'mon, dude...are you forgetting the 80's were a thing, lol? The 80's were_ *all about*_ everything being crazy brightly coloured, including the fur/skin of animal cartoon characters. 
Well, all about that, and doing coke til you wanna vote for Ronald Regan, but that's neither here nor there.



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Also, the characters are not just the  same character with a different haircut and color. That just sounds a  bit biased to say. You're forgetting Vector, Charmy, Big, etc. And that  is if you only count characters without average build. Really, most  cartoon styles aren't much more varied.


It's always kinda  bothered me how much Vector likes like the gator bad guys in Donkey  Kong. Big I wasn't familiar with but looking him up, he has a sort of  Robotnik body, but furry. I don`t think I played any of his games,  because I prefer the earliest games, in 2D, over the newer 3D ones  (Especially Sonic Generations. Looked sooper purdy and shiny, so I tried  it, but they kind of over-did the flashing coloured lights, even for a  Sonic game, and it gave me the worst migrain, and almost gave my  epileptic bf a seizure, he said. Which isn't a Sonic problem so much as a  problem with that specific design team on that specific game, so  doesn't matter either way, really). Charmy is not a good example of your  point because he's a bee who has the exact same body type and face as  Sonic and the other mammals, which is kind of exactly my point.

Also, I would say that if you look at a cast picture for Warner Bros. or Hanna Barbarra or other popular cartoon or game franchises,  they do have a higher degree of variation, frequently drawing every  single character in a totally different shape and expressivness. This is  especially obvious in older animation where technical and financial  restraints restrict other ways of differentiating the characters.



BennyBunnycorn said:


> As  for Knuckles not looking like an echidna, most people would likely not  think about what an echidna is when seeing him. ...And will generally  find out what an echidna is eventually.


I specifically said  that looking like an actual echidna has nothing to do with anything one  way or another. Hence, whether the viewer knows what an echidna actually  is or not is irrelevant. 



BennyBunnycorn said:


> You can say it doesn't shine in  originallity, but I still think it's more original than made out to be.  For the most part, I think you're just being biased. ...Like most people  I've noticed online. It seems so rare to find people who AREN'T biased  against Sonic.



I'm starting to wonder if you're maybe using biased to mean  something it usually doesn't, because I have no idea how I can be biased  against Sonic, when I just finished telling you that Sonic's cool with  me and I used to really like it. So, could you please state exactly what  my bias against Sonic actually is, please? Because I don't think I have  one...like I said, I do in fact like Sonic well enough, and liked the  franchise quite a bit when I was a kid. Sonic Underground on Teletoon  used to be my favourite show when I was in about 5th or 6th grade to  about 7th, maybe 8th, I don't remember. Few years, anyways, which is a  long time for a kid to stay interested in the same short-running  cartoon, saw the other cartoons on VHS, but liked Underground the best  because of Manic, he was one of my heros. 

But now I'm older and a  massive animation nerd, so even things I love to death eternally and  have pages of praise for, I also have criticism for it and design  choices I might have done differently, because as I watch and play  things, I'm mentally pulling them apart to see what makes them tick,  what's working, what's not working, what can I take away from it. It's  not like I'm just going with gut feeling here, it is something I've  thought about and come to an analysis ages ago. 

I mean,  just  because someone critisizes something, even criticizes extensively, that  doesn't mean they're "against" it, right? You're allowed to criticize  things, even if you like them. So, I'm really not sure where you're  getting this "bias" business from. A biased opinion would be saying,  "It's bad because I don't like it. I don't like it because it's bad.  (And also, I might work for Nintendo.)" What I'm saying is, "It has  plenty of its own strengths, but it also has some significant weakness,  here's what they are and why." Which, not to toot my own horn, seems  like a balanced, realistic and moderate way of talking about a piece of  media, and generally the literal opposite of being biased or  unreasonable. So I'm not at all sure really where you're coming from with that....


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 21, 2013)

Carnau said:


> I don't mind Sonic style inspired fursonas. I actually have a freedom fighter OC who lives in the sonic universe but I digress~
> There's really a catch to the whole thing. Recolors are definitely a no-no, it shows others that you're an art thief who was too lazy and/or creative to make your own. I've seen some MLP inspired fursonas as well -many aren't even ponies and they still come out okay.



When I was younger and during my neopets phase, I made a Sonic character based on the "A man with no name" persona that I drew myself. No recoloring needed since I based him off of a coyote. Afterwards, I grew out of it and when I look at the art-style as it is, there's some dissonance. I find it too easy and too repetitive to recreate.

I will always be a fan of the Sonic SatAM, the genesis game, and the Sega Dreamcast version, but I feel that Sonic recolors running rampant stagnates the Sonic fandom.
I guess I should look for the picture I drew of Clint and perhaps dip into the nostalgia pool.


----------



## Abbi Normal (Nov 21, 2013)

Remember that "Exterminatus Now" comic? I read that stuff in high school. Whatever happened to those guys?


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 21, 2013)

Abbi Normal said:


> Remember that "Exterminatus Now" comic? I read that stuff in high school. Whatever happened to those guys?



Last update was last week.


----------



## Abbi Normal (Nov 21, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Last update was last week.



Huh...so it was. They've seriously been at this for like ten years. Wow.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

Abbi Normal said:


> Those  sound an awful lot like equivalent terms. In order for something to be  different, you must have innovated something different about it, and in  order for something to be innovative, it must be different.
> 
> *But different isn't always innovative.*
> 
> ...



...Yeah, that's my two-cents.



Vaelarsa said:


> Amy *Rose* the Hedgehog.



I'm assuming "Rose" refers to her color or something. ...But what about Ray? (You know, that ugly yellow bastard no one remembers. (Who also doesn't have the same face as Sonic.))


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Am I the only one who thinks badniks could use attention from the fans? I mean have you seen the new Motobug? Fucking adorable. <3
And who could hate Caterkiller? The name is so bad, it's lovable!


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Am I the only one who thinks badniks could use attention from the fans? I mean have you seen the new Motobug? Fucking adorable. <3
> And who could hate Caterkiller? The name is so bad, it's lovable!



Caterkiller used to give me nightmares as a kid.


----------



## Abbi Normal (Nov 21, 2013)

In order:

Yes it is. Innovative means making something different.  In order to be different, something about it must be innovated, or it  isn't different. That's what those words mean.

You specifically  said, "brightly coloured fur". I posted brightly coloured fur. Other  things stylistically similar to Sonic (such as Steamboat Willy era  Mickey Mouse) have already been listed that I don't feel impelled to  repeat.

The fact remains that Sonic characters display less  differentiation from each other than the casts of most other cartoons  and games, as displayed by the other cast pictures I already posted. 

A  character design actually is basically a face/head and a body. And  clothes, depending on the particular character, which are for design  purposes part of the body. Sure, there's voice acting, there's  squash-and-stretch and other emotive features (limited when characters  are too similar) and other things that factor in to the final  presentation of a character, but the core raw design is in fact composed  of a face and body and so that's the first line of defense for  character differentiation.

I told you, the problem isn't that  Knuckles doesn't look like an echidna. It's that he looks like a  (in-universe) hedgehog with slicked back hair. The same problem that  Charmy has.

You really don't get to tell people whether or not  they like something or how they feel about things. I mean, I'm pretty  sure I know better than you do how _I_ feel about Sonic. :/ I'm  not "hating on" anything, I've been extremely clear that I do in fact  appreciate other things about Sonic, that just isn't one of them. If I  have a bias, it's the bias of a very extensive sample group, in that,  like I said, I'm stupidly obsessed with animation and animation history,  and so spend a stupid amount of time looking and analyzing different  styles, genres and eras of animation. And against that backdrop, there's  just really nothing groundbreaking about the aesthetic of Sonic. I'm  not even "not into it" exactly, I'm just...not wowed, say. I've seen a  lot of animation and character design, and this is just sort of...there.  So I'm not "hating on Sonic" because I think it's cool, because I'm not  a middle schooler under peer pressure, I'm criticizing something I  otherwise appreciate, because that's totally a thing that's allowed and  is not a bias, it's a realistic opinion. Criticism that supplies  well-explained reasoning is not a bias, it's a constructive criticism.  Just because every single thing you think about something isn't positive  doesn't mean you don't like it and also have positive things to say  about it. Again, you can criticize things you like, appreciate, or even  love and it doesn't mean you hate them. 

Once more: _You can criticize things you like, and it doesn't mean you now hate it._
And again: _*You can criticize thing you don't like and it doesn't mean you now hate it.*_


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

Abbi Normal said:


> In order:
> 
> Yes it is. Innovative means making something different.  In order to be different, something about it must be innovated, or it  isn't different. That's what those words mean.
> 
> ...



What anthro style DO you think is creative, innovative, and likeable then?


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Caterkiller used to give me nightmares as a kid.



That's the first time I've ever seen someone say they were afraid of a robot. Robots were the one thing I could never see as scary...

...

Ok, I lied. q-q



BennyBunnycorn said:


> What anthro style DO you think is creative, innovative, and likeable then?



If he can't, I can most certainly name some artists (I can't really put names on styles) that are vastly more interesting than typical Sonic. I already posted one.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

Who? I don't recall you mentioning anyone.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> That's the first time I've ever seen someone say they were afraid of a robot. Robots were the one thing I could never see as scary...



Just that one when I was a kid. Looking back on it, I think it is funny.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Who? I don't recall you mentioning anyone.



Scroll up.



Ozriel said:


> Just that one when I was a kid. Looking back on it, I think it is funny.



We were scared of some strange things as kids. Like Armos. Fuck em.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> We were scared of some strange things as kids. Like Armos. Fuck em.



And some of the enemies in contra scared me too. 

On the subject of sonic and the uni-eye


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Scroll up.



Did. Not finding anything accept that Gurren Lagann inspired Amy.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Did. Not finding anything accept that Gurren Lagann inspired Amy.



Exaaaaaactly. 

That artist (luigiix, everyone give him some smooches) makes Sonic characters much more interesting.

Robaato is another one.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Exaaaaaactly.
> 
> That artist (luigiix, everyone give him some smooches) makes Sonic characters much more interesting.
> 
> Robaato is another one.



That is a lot better than the original design.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 21, 2013)

Very. 
But it still keeps the charm and they're as recognizable with their special traits clearly identified. I'd take that as the new style for a game.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 21, 2013)

They look cool, except I don't like Sonic's pants. The bulky pants just seem like a poor fit for such a slim character. IMO


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 22, 2013)

That's fair.

He based the designs off his own original characters for his comic, RatRage.  I wonder if he freaking finished that book.


----------



## Azziebee (Nov 22, 2013)

In all honesty, 'sonic style' character drawing seems a bit cheap and easy to me, uncreative and cheesy. Don't take this as a direct declaration of fact, it's just an opinion, but I see no harm in it as a starting point. Plenty of good or even awesome furry artists start off with a template based drawing style like that which eventually blossoms into something more interesting.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Nov 22, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Oh yes Amy... @w@


Dude she's like 12 XD


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 23, 2013)

Not there she isn't.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 23, 2013)

I... I'm sorry, I really can't do this.

You guys can say the Sonic Art Style is uncreative, yet you will then proceed to praise the creativity of a style of random generic anthro-artist's who's style is really no different than anyone else's style? I mean, no offense and they're great artists and all, but their style isn't even creative, it's just standard for anthro-artists. (No, I'm not saying style makes the artist, I'm just saying their anthro style is typical to a lot of anthro artists I know.)


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 23, 2013)

I didn't say the style is bad. I said it's VERY easy to copy and exploit. And THAT is the problem. It _becomes_ generic with the shitty DeviantArt recolors from people who think they're designers for buying an $80 Pen Touch and using MS paint. 

And Robaato or Luigiix are not random or generic. So we will praise something that takes more skill and isn't easy to replicate. Sorry if that upsets you.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 23, 2013)

Don't forget that we live in a world where making your phones bigger is creative and innovative.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 23, 2013)

Or curved.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Or curved.



Well the pointy head thing on most Sonic OC are kind of curved more than usual.

INNOVATION.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I didn't say the style is bad. I said it's VERY easy to copy and exploit. And THAT is the problem. It _becomes_ generic with the shitty DeviantArt recolors from people who think they're designers for buying an $80 Pen Touch and using MS paint.
> 
> And Robaato or Luigiix are not random or generic. So we will praise something that takes more skill and isn't easy to replicate. Sorry if that upsets you.



The style Robaato and Luigiix use is more or less the standard style many furries use. It's only "hard to replicate" if you're a crappy artist. (Like me.   ) And really, Sonic style isn't even that easy to replicate itself. Recolors? I don't count those. If you're telling me that Sonic's style is generic and uncreative because of recolors, then your point is moot.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 23, 2013)

No. I wasn't. Not exclusively. So my point stands.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 23, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> The style Robaato and Luigiix use is more or less the standard style many furries use. It's only "hard to replicate" if you're a crappy artist. (Like me.   ) And really, Sonic style isn't even that easy to replicate itself. Recolors? I don't count those. If you're telling me that Sonic's style is generic and uncreative because of recolors, then your point is moot.



Actually it's not really a standard to anthro art since there are many styles, and style is the last thing you should worry about when drawing. The reason it's generic because it's pretty simple to draw for someone who has easily seen sonicart on DA that is exactly the same style and not much difference. Seriously i would look more carefully at other artists styles before making a comment like that BBC.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 23, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> Actually it's not really a standard to anthro art since there are many styles, and style is the last thing you should worry about when drawing. The reason it's generic because it's pretty simple to draw for someone who has easily seen sonicart on DA that is exactly the same style and not much difference. Seriously i would look more carefully at other artists styles before making a comment like that BBC.



Really, it's not that easier to replicate than any other style. And I looked carefully at the two mentioned. No matter how much I look at their art, it's still no different than other anthro artists. You are correct on one thing, though. Style does not make the artist. You can have a unique style and still be a bad artist. Especially when your "style" pays no regard to anatomy like a lot of people do when thinking they're such good artists because of their style. Even Cartoon characters require an idea on anatomy. You could say "Sonic style is easy to replicate," but I haven't seen many who actually do the style justice.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 23, 2013)

It is easy to replicate it's all noodle arms and balloon noses.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 23, 2013)

Goodgod BBcorn


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

I guess I better start painting with a Toothbrush and bread if I don't want to be called "Another generic anthro artist"


----------



## Raspberry (Nov 24, 2013)

I always figured if I was a fan-artist I'd feralize the Sonic characters. It just screams to me more.

I don't mind Sonic OCs as long as they're _good_ OCs.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

...
Zeitzbach. 

Everything you have said. Now invalidated. JUST because of that pun in your sig. I am HURT!!!!!!


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

I am now going to sig that post that Zeitz has posted.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Last I checked my style is worlds apart from Luigiix and Robaato.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> ...
> Zeitzbach.
> 
> Everything you have said. Now invalidated. JUST because of that pun in your sig. I am HURT!!!!!!



I will try to find a worse one.


----------



## IAN (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't have anything against actual Sonic-style artists, in fact I actually enjoy some works by some of them. Citi-Skies and Highway-to-sarcasm are two that first come to mind, and there are several other artist who have a sonic based style but do very well in their works. In fact, some of them are even better than the actual Sonic game art in my opinion.


Recolors on the other hand, self explanitory. Even worse than the "art" of Sonic recolors, the ones behind it. My god, the autism is so bad it's horrendus. Not sure what it is but compared to every other fanbase I've looked at or been in, the Sonic fanbase is BY FAR the highest concentrated with autism. And you guys don't know the worst of it unless you've experienced it first hand. 

And it goes even further than the whole recolor deal, it's a clusterfuck.




Heliophobic said:


> Sonic statistically tends to attract  autistics. Guess it's just the bright colors and cookie-cutter facial  expressions. You'll notice a lot of fandoms with a high concentration of  autistics share those traits. It's strange.


 Holy fuck, I thought I was the only person on the planet to notice this.

Bronies and Homestuck fans are the exact same way. Also, the characters are easy to draw, have their own little cheesy "backstory" and storyline to accompany, and each have their own "special" trait to diffrentiate them for the rest (in the case of bronies, the Cutie Marks). I've also noticed furs with less complex fursonas and favor a less-complex art style (whether they draw or commission) are very similar to members of these autistic fandoms.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

Also the fact Adventure time is starting to go into that area as well.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

What is standard furry art? Why also worry about what autistic people like anyway? It is like cooties or something?


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

IAN said:


> I don't have anything against actual Sonic-style artists, in fact I actually enjoy some works by some of them. Citi-Skies and Highway-to-sarcasm are two that first come to mind, and there are several other artist who have a sonic based style but do very well in their works. In fact, some of them are even better than the actual Sonic game art in my opinion.



Nancher, SuperNitro, and his girlfriend Sif are some others that make it work. OH and how on earth could we forget Jay Axer? The comics he worked on hands down have the best official Sonic art in the entire franchise though all of the stuff seen in the Generations gallery was fantastic also.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 24, 2013)

IAN said:


> Recolors on the other hand, self explanitory. Even worse than the "art" of Sonic recolors, the ones behind it. My god, the autism is so bad it's horrendus. Not sure what it is but compared to every other fanbase I've looked at or been in, the Sonic fanbase is BY FAR the highest concentrated with autism. And you guys don't know the worst of it unless you've experienced it first hand.


_Gotta go autism._


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> *Shut the **** up, XoPachi*! Just because, in my opinion, Sonic style  is more creative than generic furry style doesn't mean you have to be a  douche-bag about it! Plus, you're wrong. If you think it's just noodles  and balloons, you're sadly mistaking. Maybe YOU are the one who needs  glasses, you jerk!



I really don't want to leave a scar on my wrist.

But kay, your opinion then. It was acceptable until it reaches the bolded part.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> So basically, anyone who likes Sonic, MLP, or cartoon styles in general are autistic?


Obv.


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> The style Robaato and Luigiix use is more or less the standard style many furries use. It's only "hard to replicate" if you're a crappy artist. (Like me.   ) And really, Sonic style isn't even that easy to replicate itself. Recolors? I don't count those. If you're telling me that Sonic's style is generic and uncreative because of recolors, then your point is moot.


Any style would be hard to replicate if you can't draw. Aside from that, I wouldn't call the style generic so much as it is just kind of bland after awhile. Besides the human characters, a lot of the animal characters have a bit of same face syndrome. Them being drawn by the same artist isn't much of an excuse because you can still have dynamically different characters but have the same artist. 



IAN said:


> I've also noticed furs with less complex fursonas and favor a less-complex art style (whether they draw or commission) are very similar to members of these autistic fandoms.


Wouldn't that make you autistic too?

Pretty sure the two aren't even related.



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Shut the **** up, XoPachi! Just because,  in my opinion, Sonic style  is more creative than generic furry style  doesn't mean you have to be a  douche-bag about it! Plus, you're wrong.  If you think it's just noodles  and balloons, you're sadly mistaking.  Maybe YOU are the one who needs  glasses, you jerk!


I like how you say it's your opinion and then state your opinion as actual fact. 

Maybe you need this instead of glasses.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> I really don't want to leave a scar on my wrist.
> 
> But kay, your opinion then. It was acceptable until it reaches the bolded part.



Honestly, he deserved to be yelled at for the comment he made. Plus, I don't see how that invalidates my opinion just cause someone's being rude and the person's yelling at him for it.



Imperial Impact said:


> Obv.



Again, that's like saying everyone into that is an idiot.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

So I learn from this thread that everyone is autistic.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> that's like saying everyone into that is an idiot.


Obv.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Suppose next I'll be called an "idiot fake fur". lolol



No, I'll stick with "asshole" for this one.




Imperial Impact said:


> Obv.



Which is a bold faced lie.


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> So I learn from this thread that everyone is autistic.


The more you know


----------



## Gumshoe (Nov 24, 2013)

OK you babies, let me give you my opinion from an enthusiasts perspective.  Anthro and sonic style characters are both similar and different in their own ways.  In my opinion, it depends on how far the artist is willing to innovate.  Both can be generic if the artist decides to make them generic.  Making new characters and reinventing the anatomy in a creative fashion is possible on both sides, it really depends on how they draw.  This is only my opinion, but how the hell do I know about that anyways.  I am only an enthusiast after all.  Maybe you should take what I said and implement it into both art styles, and reach an agreement, because this argument is just childish.

And by the way IAN, you tossing that word around is getting pretty old.  It's almost like you think I am some kind of nutcase who deserves to be put in an insane asylum.

I am not going to reply to this thread any longer, because sparking up another argument is just pointless.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Which is a bold faced lie.


Only because it upsets you.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

A_Modernly_Classy_Dragon said:


> OK you babies, let me give you  my opinion from an enthusiasts perspective.  Anthro and sonic style  characters are both similar and different in their own ways.  In my  opinion, it depends on how far the artist is willing to innovate.  Both  can be generic if the artist decides to make them generic.  Making new  characters and reinventing the anatomy in a creative fashion is possible  on both sides, it really depends on how they draw.  This is only my  opinion, but how the hell do I know about that anyways.  I am only an  enthusiast after all.  Maybe you should take what I said and implement  it into both art styles, and reach an agreement, because this argument  is just childish.



Quoted for the truth.





Imperial Impact said:


> Only because it upsets you.



No, cause it is.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> No, I'll stick with "asshole" for this one.



k den


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Shut the **** up, XoPachi! Just because, in my opinion, Sonic style  is more creative than generic furry style doesn't mean you have to be a  douche-bag about it! Plus, you're wrong. If you think it's just noodles  and balloons, you're sadly mistaking. Maybe YOU are the one who needs  glasses, you jerk!



So you cry about people being insulting and rather be an adult about it and just report it and let the mods handle it - you act like a bigger asshole? What sense does that make?

It is easy  to copy. Sonic was intentionally easy to copy. Did you not know the reason for this? They need people to work on the art of the game. If the game design was incredibly difficult they'd blow deadlines. So simplify the design so that staff can work on various art, in game and promotional. If it was hard to copy, not only would it not be emulated by many people, the fucking game wouldn't even exist because it was too hard to work on. 




> Human anatomy, tails, ears, fur. Basically nothing else or anything discerning it from other furry artists.



This makes no sense. Try making some.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 24, 2013)

A_Modernly_Classy_Dragon said:


> OK you babies, let me give you my opinion from an enthusiasts perspective.  Anthro and sonic style characters are both similar and different in their own ways.  In my opinion, it depends on how far the artist is willing to innovate.  Both can be generic if the artist decides to make them generic.  Making new characters and reinventing the anatomy in a creative fashion is possible on both sides, it really depends on how they draw.  This is only my opinion, but how the hell do I know about that anyways.  I am only an enthusiast after all.  Maybe you should take what I said and implement it into both art styles, and reach an agreement, because this argument is just childish.
> 
> And by the way IAN, you tossing that word around is getting pretty old.  It's almost like you think I am some kind of nutcase who deserves to be put in an insane asylum.
> 
> I am not going to reply to this thread any longer, because sparking up another argument is just pointless.










BennyBunnycorn said:


> No, cause it is.


BBcorn pls


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> So you cry about people being insulting and rather be an adult about it and just report it and let the mods handle it - you act like a bigger asshole? What sense does that make?
> 
> It is easy  to copy. Sonic was intentionally easy to copy? Did you not know the reason for this? They need people to work on the art of the game. If the game design was incredibly difficult they'd blow deadlines. So simplify the design so that staff can work on various art, in game and promotional. If it was hard to copy, not only would it not be emulated by many people, the fucking game wouldn't even exist because it was too hard to work on.



Is that why Dragon's Crown took 30 years to come out?


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> So you cry about people being insulting and rather be an adult about it and just report it and let the mods handle it - you act like a bigger asshole? What sense does that make?
> 
> It is easy  to copy. Sonic was intentionally easy to copy? Did you not know the reason for this? They need people to work on the art of the game. If the game design was incredibly difficult they'd blow deadlines. So simplify the design so that staff can work on various art, in game and promotional. If it was hard to copy, not only would it not be emulated by many people, the fucking game wouldn't even exist because it was too hard to work on.
> 
> This makes no sense. Try making some.



So standing up for myself is crying about it? No it isn't. That doesn't make me an asshole, it just means I'm not just going to stand there and take such comments.

Also, you guys give all these excuses how Sonic style sucks and it's oh so easy to draw, yet that's all I've seen: Excuses. No actual evidence or proof, just excuses.

It wouldn't be a fair call for me to try that, but an actual competent artist could likely replicate their styles without too much problem. Cause like I said, they don't discern themselves from other styles.



Imperial Impact said:


> BBcorn pls



Just saying, is all. Liking cartoon styles doesn't make one "autistic."


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Is that why Dragon's Crown took 30 years to come out?



Dragon's Crown is more of a homage to games out 30 years ago vs actually taking 30 years to come out. He worked on video games for that long. It hit more time to come out than expected date because of funding (he should really go into doing more indie than trying to do the "traditional" way of funding for more games imo). 

I dunno, "standard furry style" is as idiotic as saying all art that comes from America or Japan look the same because some idiot just looks at anime and superhero comics.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

For the love of fuck. 
We didn't say the Sonic style sucks. We said it's EASY FOR PEOPLE TO COPY. Simplicity doesn't make it BAD. It's bad when SHITTY artists try to blatantly COPY IT. I could have sworn I fucking said I LIKE the art style. And if not, there you fucking go.


----------



## IAN (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> So basically, anyone who likes Sonic, MLP, or cartoon styles in general are autistic? That's like saying "everyone who likes those franchises is whiny and retarded."


 Not _everyone_, but generally those who are seriously into them and are highly active members of the fandoms carry high amounts of autistic traits. From what I've noticed.

And the second part in quotes is sorta true for the most part. From my experience. xD


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> For the love of fuck.
> We didn't say the Sonic style sucks. We said it's EASY FOR PEOPLE TO COPY. Simplicity doesn't make it BAD. It's bad when SHITTY artists try to blatantly COPY IT. I could have sworn I fucking said I LIKE the art style. And if not, there you fucking go.



Define "easy to replicate." Cause a squiggly line in supposedly Sonic's shape doesn't qualify as "replicated" for me. I also don't count recolors, either.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

It follows a simple template much like Kirby's art and MLP's style. It is essentially a wireframe for the majority of the characters.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

And the other styles you mentioned aren't? In all seriousness, I do not get how Sonic is all that easy to replicate, as you guys still have yet to provide actual evidence. MLP style, yes I can see the argument applying to that. Happy Tree Friends style? Yes. But Sonic? Not really.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> So standing up for myself is crying about it? No it isn't. That doesn't make me an asshole, it just means I'm not just going to stand there and take such comments.



If you add on by acting more of a douchebag than the guy you're claiming is, it does make you an asshole. Just because a lady at the grocery store calls someone the N word, doesn't justify beating her up. Is it understandable the person is angry about it? Yes, but in the end it still doesn't mean you get to act worse than the crime committed. 

It's been repeatedly said it's easy to copy. Those that don't care for the style says it sucks. But it is not our problem if you can't figure out there's one group that says it's easy to copy. Especially as I said why it's supposed to be. Kids like to copy things. People like to copy things - it's in our nature to "repeat what is deemed successful," especially if the 'Success' is a relatively easy method.

If I told you a successful way of being a good artist may take you five years to get a result. People get intimidated. If a kid sees that copying another drawing gets them a result, they have an easier method of success. It still doesn't make them a good artist. But a lot of people think that way because they got a drawing on a piece of paper.

It's no more "innovative" than adding unicorn horns on pink bunnies.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Define "easy to replicate." Cause a squiggly line in supposedly Sonic's shape doesn't qualify as "replicated" for me. I also don't count recolors, either.




It's just... a huge circle for head and an oval for body with noodle arm, leg, big normal hand and feet. Then you add curved spike and balloon nose.

Sonic was simplified to the point anyone can draw because it started off in sprite form. You can't go with complex patterns and shits without puking blood trying to make all the sprites and animation.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> And the other styles you mentioned aren't? In all seriousness, I do not get how Sonic is all that easy to replicate, as you guys still have yet to provide actual evidence.



OK. This took me 80 seconds. 






This is the BASIC structure of Sonic, Amy, Tails, Metal Sonic, Espio, Knuckles, Shadow, Silver, Cream, Vanilla, Charmy, Blaze etc.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Define "easy to replicate." Cause a squiggly line in supposedly Sonic's shape doesn't qualify as "replicated" for me. I also don't count recolors, either.



The shapes for the sonic art are very simple shapes that you can easily fill in with fewer simple shapes. For those that cannot draw well, it is a very easy starter to learn how to draw simple shaped-characters. Same with My little pony.
However, characters like Bowser Have more shapes you have to fill out in order to make the character, so it is very difficult for a beginner to draw freehand. The Sonic style is perfect for beginners to draw, and it is also very easy to replicate which is why it is a very popular artform.


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> So standing up for myself is crying about it? No it isn't. That doesn't make me an asshole, it just means I'm not just going to stand there and take such comments.


All you really did was call him a jerk and tell him to shut the fuck up because he made a joke..that's crying. 



> Also, you guys give all these excuses how Sonic style sucks and it's oh so easy to draw, yet that's all I've seen: Excuses. No actual evidence or proof, just excuses.


To test this, I went ahead and drew Sonic's head. It took about 5 minutes. 



> It wouldn't be a fair call for me to try that, but an actual competent artist could likely replicate their styles without too much problem. Cause like I said, they don't discern themselves from other styles.


That doesn't make any sense


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. XoPachi, what you did proved nothing, and Ozriel, Bowser tends to take on different styles depending on his game.



Willow said:


> All you really did was call him a jerk and tell  him to shut the fuck up because he made a joke..that's crying.
> 
> To test this, I went ahead and drew Sonic's head. It took about 5 minutes.
> 
> That doesn't make any sense



No. I did SOMETHING. I didn't just do nothing to him. That's standing up for myself.

You cannot prove how long it took, really, so I can't really call that evidence.

Then you're not even trying to understand it, cause just about anyone else could.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. XoPachi, what you did proved nothing,



I'm pretty sure him drawing that before I even manage to type in 3-4 sentences proves a lot on how easy Sonic chars are to replicate and draw.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. XoPachi, what you did proved nothing, and Ozriel, Bowser tends to take on different styles depending on his game.


...seriously?


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> ...
> 
> So when's your first appointment with Halpern?



I said shut the *** up and stop being a jerk!



Zeitzbach said:


> I'm pretty sure him drawing that before I even manage to type in 3-4 sentences proves a lot on how easy Sonic chars are to replicate and draw.



Not really, he could likely do the same with any style, really. Plus, that's only a skeleton, not the actual style

Why is it that big of a deal that I think the Sonic style is more creative and hard to do right than people think.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. XoPachi, what you did proved nothing, and Ozriel, Bowser tends to take on different styles depending on his game.



That's irrelevant. We are discussing the drawing style that you said is very complex to reproduce. However, it is easy...easier than drawing Bowser and to trace in comparison.
What I brought up is that the style itself is very simple that you could try and do it, not the style. Give it a shot, it is actually a good beginner's drawing exercise.

And the people who have refuted your point DO draw as a hobby or as a part time job.



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Why is it that big of a deal that I think the Sonic style is more creative and hard to do right than people think.



It is hard if you do not know how to draw. Otherwise, replicating the form and putting in action-like scenes is very simple.


BennyBunnycorn said:


> I said shut the *** up and stop being a jerk!



Stop throwing a tantrum or you'll find yourself removed.



XoPachi said:


> ...
> 
> So when's your first appointment with Halpern?



Stay on topic and do not antagonize him, or the axe.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> I'm pretty sure him drawing that before I even manage to type in 3-4 sentences proves a lot on how easy Sonic chars are to replicate and draw.



Thank you. And I put some keywords in there.

BASIC STRUCTURE
80. FUCKING. SECONDS.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> That's irrelevant. We are discussing the drawing style that you said is very complex to reproduce. However, it is easy...easier than drawing Bowser and to trace in comparison.
> What I brought up is that the style itself is very simple that you could try and do it, not the style.



I said it wasn't as easy as it's made out to be, not that it's complex. Plus, it's not actually drawing the style, it's doing it right.



XoPachi said:


> Thank you. And I put some keywords in there.
> 
> BASIC STRUCTURE
> 80. FUCKING. SECONDS.



Draw the rest, then. Then I'll critique.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Not really, he could likely do the same with any style, really. Plus, that's only a skeleton, not the actual style
> 
> Why is it that big of a deal that I think the Sonic style is more creative and hard to do right than people think.



Probably because you're worshipping Sonic and breadcrumb drawing while calling everyone else drawing generic.

Sonic takes 80 seconds to sketch up the outline that can be used to designs 1000000 different sonic characters.

In 80 seconds I can't even get the damn ears on my cat right, or the horn on the gecko.


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. XoPachi, what you did proved nothing, and Ozriel, Bowser tends to take on different styles depending on his game.


No he doesn't. The only thing that really changes is how detailed he is. But he's still pretty complex to draw. 



> No. I did SOMETHING. I didn't just do nothing to him. That's standing up for myself.


Telling someone to shut the fuck up and proceeding to hurl petty insults at them isn't really standing up for yourself. Especially when it wasn't even that big of a deal. 



> You cannot prove how long it took, really, so I can't really call that evidence.


I can prove how long it took because I have eyes and I know how to tell time. It took me around five minutes with a reference for the eyes.
It's a rough sketch of course but you get the idea

Try again.



> Then you're not even trying to understand it, cause just about anyone else could.


I tried to but it doesn't make any fucking sense.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Not really, he could likely do the same with any style, really. Plus, that's only a skeleton, not the actual style
> 
> Why is it that big of a deal that I think the Sonic style is more creative and hard to do right than people think.



He's shitting me, right?


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> He's shitting me, right?


This is what I'd like to call desperation.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> Probably because you're worshipping Sonic and  breadcrumb drawing while calling everyone else drawing generic.
> 
> Sonic takes 80 seconds to sketch up the outline that can be used to designs 1000000 different sonic characters.
> 
> In 80 seconds I can't even get the damn ears on my cat right, or the horn on the gecko.



I'm not even THAT big a fan, you guys are just being biased and stubborn. Plus, stop saying all Sonic characters use the same template. That just PROVES you're being biased.



Willow said:


> No he doesn't. The only thing that really changes is how detailed he is. But he's still pretty complex to draw.
> 
> I can prove how long it took because I have eyes and I know how to tell time. It took me around five minutes with a reference for the eyes.
> It's a rough sketch of course but you get the idea
> ...



Compare Smash Brothers Melee Bowser to, say, Super Mario Sunshine's Bowser. I can't really say it's the same style, but the other characters don't look that different.

Rough Sketch = Proof

Then you're not even trying.


Look at the full picture, guys. Yes, you can draw a sketch or a skeleton, but can you actually DRAW the character?


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

So I can easily replicate the art of Ikaruga?






Never knew I had it in me.


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So I can easily replicate the art of Ikaruga?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That really wasn't the point. Plus, we're talking about anthro styles.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So I can easily replicate the art of Ikaruga?
> 
> Never knew I had it in me.



Or this done by a friend of mine:


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Or this done by a friend of mine:



Okay, that's pretty badass (although the foot looks a bit off for some reason) but still, not the point.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I'm not even THAT big a fan, you guys are just being biased and stubborn. Plus, stop saying all Sonic characters use the same template. That just PROVES you're being biased.



Well I guess we can say Eggman and the humans don't. There, was I being nice enough?


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Compare Smash Brothers Melee Bowser to, say, Super Mario Sunshine's Bowser. I can't really say it's the same style, but the other characters don't look that different.


Smash bros. 
Sunshine

The only real difference is detail and coloration, but his style doesn't really vary that much. 



> Rough Sketch = Proof


Proof of what exactly? That it's really easy to draw?



> Look at the full picture, guys. Yes, you can draw a sketch or a skeleton, but can you actually DRAW the character?


Congratulations on completely missing the point. But I'll humor you. I'll use Pachi's skeleton just to save a bit of time.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Ozzie, your friend is OP as fuck.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

If you don't know your foundational drawing, all you're doing is whinging about this. 
The reason Sonic is much more easy to replicate is it's just off the stick figure template. It's supposed to be that way. It's fine. I don't see how there can be an argument past this?

It's even more stupid because you haven't done your research and actually see who are the people you are talking to with experience. I used to draw Sonic art, and I drew anime and comics. Sonic was the far easiest to replicate. It had a lot less to worry about pertaining to actual anatomy. Noodle Arms, and Balloon noses. 

For me the hardest part was the background (years ago and I still messed it up). But the Sonic template was boring because of noodle arms. I actually bothered to apply more anatomy to the character. I don't even really play the Sonic games


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Willow said:


> Smash bros.
> Sunshine
> 
> The only real difference is detail and coloration, but his style doesn't really vary that much.
> ...



You mean besides other things. Like the actual overall anatomy of the character.

Sorry, I meant "Rough Sketch =/= Proof."

Not really. I'm actually making the point.



Arshes Nei said:


> For me the hardest part was the background  (years ago and I still messed it up). But the Sonic template was boring  because of noodle arms. I actually bothered to apply more anatomy to the  character. I don't even really play the Sonic games



And boom, you didn't actually do the style.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Rouge and Vector are the only two of the animal characters that come close to breeching the style (of the ones appearing in the games).

Vector has the whole hulky body thing going on and Rouge has some sort of feminine definition going on.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

Willow said:


> But I'll humor you. I'll use Pachi's skeleton just to save a bit of time.



Careful if the head is slightly bigger by 0.01 mm then it's invalid.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 24, 2013)

All anthros Styles are the same? :V

Wat?



XoPachi said:


> Rouge and Vector are the only two of the animal characters that come close to breeching the style (of the ones appearing in the games).
> 
> Vector has the whole hulky body thing going on and Rouge has some sort of feminine definition going on.



Because the rest till have kid-like forms, with exception for the other notable characters like Vector, eggman and Rogue.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> And boom, you didn't actually do the style.



*WhoooOOOOoooooooosh*


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> All anthros Styles are the same? :V
> 
> Wat?



None of the artists nailed it using nails and hammer. Likely so.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> *WhoooOOOOoooooooosh*



Pretty much


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> All anthros Styles are the same? :V
> 
> Wat?



Honestly, I never said that. Just that the two mentioned didn't discern themselves with their "style."

Also, Big says hello.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> All anthros Styles are the same? :V
> 
> Wat?
> 
> ...



404 is the best style (your first link doesn't work XD)


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> 404 is the best style (your first link doesn't work XD)



Delete the d.

EDIT: Strange. That's usually the issue.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Delete the d.




But furries want the d.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Zeitzbach said:


> But furries want the d.



I bet you do.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I bet you do.



Please, the S in my name is "safe for work"


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Pretty much



You tell someone you did more because the original base isn't a challenge and they reply back that makes them look about as smart as the fly on the windshield of a car.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You tell someone you did more because the original base isn't a challenge and they reply back that makes them look about as smart as the fly on the windshield of a car.



You post something that took less effort than pulling up the program to create it. Somehow you didn't prove your point.
Oh but you are biased and stubborn. Whatever those mean anymore. lol


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

lullll http://sonicfannumber1.wordpress.com/how-to-draw-sonic-and-the-charactersincluding-sonic-pictures/


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

Ugh. Do I have to bold face things?

*IT'S NOT ABOUT SKELETONS AND SKETCHES! IT'S ABOUT THE STYLE ITSELF! DRAWING A SKELETON IS NOT THE SAME AS DRAWING THE STYLE!*

Geeze, you guys are being really stubborn right now.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Ugh. Do I have to bold face things?
> 
> *IT'S NOT ABOUT SKELETONS AND SKETCHES! IT'S ABOUT THE STYLE ITSELF! DRAWING A SKELETON IS NOT THE SAME AS DRAWING THE STYLE!*
> 
> Geeze, you guys are being really stubborn right now.



*And the style is basic as fuck*. That's what we wanted to prove by DRAWING it's skeleton. And we did. 
(No I'm not mad. I only put it in point 7 bold because I understand you have trouble reading. You're welcome.)


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Ugh. Do I have to bold face things?
> 
> *IT'S NOT ABOUT SKELETONS AND SKETCHES! IT'S ABOUT THE STYLE ITSELF! DRAWING A SKELETON IS NOT THE SAME AS DRAWING THE STYLE!*
> 
> Geeze, you guys are being really stubborn right now.



Make more sense please. Bolding it is not making more sense, at all. The skeleton is pretty much the style. That's the point. it's not anything that has departed from it greatly.








It would be funny to draw a skeleton form of Sonic, considering he doesn't really have one lol.


----------



## Judge Spear (Nov 24, 2013)

;3;

I love Blaze doe. <3


----------



## BennyBunnycorn (Nov 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> *And the style is basic as fuck*. That's what we wanted to prove by DRAWING it's skeleton. And we did.
> (No I'm not mad. I only put it in point 7 bold because I understand you have trouble reading. You're welcome.)



I don't have trouble reading. Stop being an ass by insisting I have poor eye site. However, no skeleton or "how-to" video can prove how easy a style is to replicate. Skeletons and How-Tos exist for all styles.

Now would you PLEASE get off my case already, and stop telling me what styles are easy and which aren't? Cause I will never agree that Sonic's style is all that easy to replicate.

And before Arshes Nei comes with her usual cards, no it's not "Lalala, you're wrong" it's just you guys being stubborn and trying your hardest to prove a ridiculous point that wasn't even the starting point of it all. The starting point was that the style actually discerns itself from other styles, not how easy or difficult it is to draw. I forgot when the discussion turned into that, but it wasn't the initial debate.


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 24, 2013)

There was this manga where the character was deep in thought and always stressed about something and the truth.
Then she took a look at the mirror and was like "Goddamnit I'm so fabulous unlike the other"


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I don't have trouble reading. Stop being an ass by insisting I have poor eye site. However, no skeleton or "how-to" video can prove how easy a style is to replicate. Skeletons and How-Tos exist for all styles.
> 
> Now would you PLEASE get off my case already, and stop telling me what styles are easy and which aren't? Cause I will never agree that Sonic's style is all that easy to replicate.
> 
> And before Arshes Nei comes with her usual cards, no it's not "Lalala, you're wrong" it's just you guys being stubborn and trying your hardest to prove a ridiculous point that wasn't even the starting point of it all. The starting point was that the style actually discerns itself from other styles, not how easy or difficult it is to draw. I forgot when the discussion turned into that, but it wasn't the initial debate.



This is why you're not welcome on the forums anymore. You constantly shitpost and just create more trouble for the forum than its worth. 

Goodbye.


----------



## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

Awwe lame, and I went through all the trouble of actually lining this thing too

Between the minor distractions it took ~30 minutes with the lineart. 



Arshes Nei said:


> lullll http://sonicfannumber1.wordpress.com/how-to-draw-sonic-and-the-charactersincluding-sonic-pictures/


By this I can only deduce that the shoes are really the only hard thing to draw about Sonic characters. And even that's kind of debatable.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 24, 2013)

IAN said:


> I My god, the autism is so bad it's horrendus. Not sure what it is but compared to every other fanbase I've looked at or been in, the Sonic fanbase is BY FAR the highest concentrated with autism. And you guys don't know the worst of it unless you've experienced it first hand.
> Holy fuck, I thought I was the only person on the planet to notice this.


  One of the damned creepers went into a full-on spack attack and got up in my face about how awesome Heroes was when I was looking over a used copy in Gamestop. I realized that the game wasn't worth being payed to play, and left. It's shit encrusted to the fat ass of a half-ton man-baby, by the way.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

Willow said:


> Awwe lame, and I went through all the trouble of actually lining this thing too
> 
> Between the minor distractions it took ~30 minutes with the lineart.



"And Boom, you didn't even do the style"

You feel better now? But then the next argument was that it wasn't about the foundation, but that the style was harder so... *shrugs* I still think Sonic is made of cartilage and doesn't really possess a "Skeleton"


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## IAN (Nov 24, 2013)

Willow said:


> Wouldn't that make you autistic too?.


 Well to be fair, despite never being formally diagnosed, I wouldn't doubt it's in my system. Reason's being, I'm:

-A furry, which says enough (add the fetishes I have and it's even more proof).

-A Sonic Fan.

-I think MLP FiM is a fantastic series personally, but I don't like calling myself a brony anymore.

-I have ADD, common trait with autism and aspergers.

-Visually impaired, another common autistic trait.

-I listen to many music styles that are known to appeal to autists.

-Was a socially awkward fucktard IRL until I hit highschool.

-And this one isn't a common recorded autism trait, but my voice is more child-like than it should be for my age, especially when I sing and I sound 14. I've noticed those with obvious or diagnosed autism have much slower developing voices, and tend to sound like young boys until they are in their mid to late 20's.

So, even without any psychology degree I would not doubt I have some mild form of it. And I would absolutely say there is a link. Just generally the bright colors and character designs that are easy for autistic brains to process.




Kit H. Ruppell said:


> One of the damned creepers went into a  full-on spack attack and got up in my face about how awesome Heroes was  when I was looking over a used copy in Gamestop. I realized that the  game wasn't worth being payed to play, and left. It's shit encrusted to  the fat ass of a half-ton man-baby, by the way.


 Lol, and those types of guys aren't even the ones I'm referring to. xD

I'm talking about the whole bitchfest that went on after the voice actors were replaced in the games back in 2005-2006 or so. That and the release of Shadow the Hedgehog, which granted wasn't a great game, but fans bitched about it more than any other game in the series (there are much worse than it) simply because of it's dark and mature nature and weapon presence. Essentially, everything but the gameplay was bitched about with it.

And then there was the whole "BRING BACK 2D SAWNIC WAAAA" clusterfuck after Sonic Unleashed (totally ignoring the existence of the Sonic Advances and Sonic Rush 1+2) and when they finally did announce Sonic "4" (which to me was a joke of a game, more of a marketing gimmick and a silencer to bitching fans), they STILL bitched and complained.


There were times following the Sonic fanbase I just wanted to slam my head into a cinderblock wall as hard as I could, because a facepalm wasn't sufficient enough for how horrendus it was.


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## RTDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

I cannot believe that escalated quickly. Though this does bring a good question has any artists manage to make the sonic style completely different as in amazing without using the simplistic anatomy?


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## pixelfetish8 (Nov 24, 2013)

I see a lot of Sonic art and even if the characters can be simple this not means people can't do amazing art (but yes, the fandom have too much "recolors" fursonas... or sonicsonas


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## Trpdwarf (Nov 24, 2013)

Honestly I think they are a good way to whore middle school level drawing for big bucks. Here is my interphretation of the whole sonic franchise: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/Sanguvixen/7f05785e-b9e8-4634-8d84-c8abebbcdd9f_zps7069d92d.jpg NSFW, did I do a good job :3

In all seriousness people are free to like what they please but I do think a person should not settle on just sonic style. There are a lot of people who get stuck in only drawing simplistic stuff that was made by someone else and never improve. It's like, you can do better?


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## Ozriel (Nov 24, 2013)

Here is a picture of Sonic's head.

Now here's a picture of Sonic drawn as a Vietnamese prostitute. I see why Furries love to draw him so much. :V

Seriously, it tool me all of 10 minutes to draw this. It is so easy, it is almost demeaning. :X


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## Willow (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> "And Boom, you didn't even do the style"
> 
> You feel better now? But then the next argument was that it wasn't about the foundation, but that the style was harder so... *shrugs* I still think Sonic is made of cartilage and doesn't really possess a "Skeleton"


It really doesn't. But I thought the point is that it's hard to replicate and therefore it's unique and creative. It's really just stylistic and that's about it. Which doesn't always mean totally creative. 



IAN said:


> Well to be fair, despite never being formally diagnosed, I wouldn't doubt it's in my system. Reason's being, I'm:
> 
> -A furry, which says enough (add the fetishes I have and it's even more proof).
> 
> ...


So you're basing this partly on fandom affiliation. Nice to know we're already starting off with the weird sweeping generalizations.



> -I have ADD, common trait with autism and aspergers.


No that just proves you have ADD. 



> -Visually impaired, another common autistic trait.


This just in: people with bad eyesight are probably autistic



> -I listen to many music styles that are known to appeal to autists.


Like...?



> -Was a socially awkward fucktard IRL until I hit highschool.


Everyone is awkward in middle school though



> -And this one isn't a common recorded autism trait, but my voice is more child-like than it should be for my age, especially when I sing and I sound 14. I've noticed those with obvious or diagnosed autism have much slower developing voices, and tend to sound like young boys until they are in their mid to late 20's..


That's an actual symptom.


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## IAN (Nov 24, 2013)

Willow said:


> So you're basing this partly on fandom affiliation. Nice to know we're already starting off with the weird sweeping generalizations.


 Which are typically, almost always true.

Hell, I just was browsing a thread an autism community forum for backing for my reply to the last quote in this post, and 3 of them had Pony avatars, and one had a Sonic avatar. All fancharacters btw.




Willow said:


> No that just proves you have ADD.


 Which is highly linked with autism, sometimes seen as one of the most obvious signs.




Willow said:


> This just in: people with bad eyesight are probably autistic


 I meant the other way around. People who are autistic usually are seen wearing glasses or contacts. I only know of 2 autists who don't, one of them most likely wears contacts though.




Willow said:


> Like...?


 I've always been big into metal, as well as classic rock, progressive rock, and more recently I've started listening to a whole lot of EDM. Typically you don't encounter people who are intensively into metal and rock (espeically non mainstream bands) without coming off as somewhat strange, goofy, or in generally having something a bit wrong with them.

Now these are intense fans of rock and metal, not the average guy who likes a good Metallica song every once in a while.




Willow said:


> Everyone is awkward in middle school though


 Right, but I was even worse. I was that weird goofy kid that most people couldn't stand.




Willow said:


> That's an actual symptom.


 Not based on what I've read about. I have read that there is a specific speaking style and tone of voice that autists can be heard talking with, but I've never heard of them being known to keep child-like voices for unusual amounts of time. That's just something I've noticed, and notice with my own voice.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm still trying to figure out why whether or not a group of autistic people like one thing *even fucking matters*. It just reeks of some kind of elitist attitude about entertainment culture. Does that mean we should stay the fuck away from people because they're autistic. What's next, because someone's gender or race? Seriously drop the autistic shit.


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## Ozriel (Nov 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm still trying to figure out why whether or not a group of autistic people like one thing *even fucking matters*. It just reeks of some kind of elitist attitude about entertainment culture. Does that mean we should stay the fuck away from people because they're autistic. What's next, because someone's gender or race? Seriously drop the autistic shit.



It is about as irrelevant as my "Ming Lee Sonic".

So let us please keep it on the topic of the sonic art style, and not Autism and Sonic.


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## Trpdwarf (Nov 24, 2013)

On it's own there is nothing wrong with the Sonic style. It was made simplistic for a reason, and that is for ease of animation. Remember after Sonic's games came into their own on Sega, an entire series on television was produced, and comics. Plus, honestly I think his shape and the entire style was heavily influenced by the limitations of early game systems. Look at other characters spawned in that area that went the same way such a Mario. Look at how simplistic everything in the Mario Universe is. Goombas, Mushrooms...etc. Actually the only really complicated thing from that universe is bowser's design, which is one of the few things that evolved to become slightly more complex.

The point is fans need to realize this is not a good model for which to base yourself on the artistic level. These thing are easily reproduced and replicated for a good reason. So the biggest thing that I have an issue with are the people who get on these enormous high horses because they make it big drawing something they didn't create. You can't act like a artist when you are just a petty thief.

Of course don't bother saying that to the legion of zombieesque fans. How dare you state the obvious. The more accomplished furry artists who draw actual original furry characters are real artists. Even average furry artists of original furry content are still better artists than your common cookie cuter Sonic, MLP, or Mario recolorizers. (in respect to MLP at least may of you do attempt to make original concepts based around the cutie marks, and you sometimes come up with really good accessorizing, and deep back stories that still fit within the Pony Universe which is more than I ever see for most sonic recolor stuff).


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## Jabberwocky (Nov 24, 2013)

the sonic style is alright. its just people over-using the style that annoys the shit out of me.


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## Sar (Nov 24, 2013)

Seriously? Sonic style is the most horrific eyesore I heave ever seen attempted to be drawn in the Fandom. The style itself I can hate so much with a passion. Im not bashing Sonic or Sega. Sega made a lot of the games I played in my childhood and a couple I get to still enjoy today. But that where they thinking with the so called "Sonic" style?

What I hate mostly about it is that because they attempt to adopt the style of a popular video game series and fail, the shat-upon aborted fetuses that are called "artwork" that were made gets posted all over FA and people think they are god's gift to art because they can draw crude "fanart" of video game characters in an apparently similar style. I just don't like it at all and sure as hell don't like the mutations spawned from it.


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## CaptainCool (Nov 25, 2013)

The style is way too simplistic and the fanbase is awful as the last couple of pages have proven.
My main problem with the whole thing is just that Sonic fans are trying way too hard to make the whole thing look cooler than it really is... And when you voice your opinion that a "gangsta" Sonic is not only a fucking stupid idea but also the least original "original character" of all fucking time and they freak out about it like the little shits that they are, that is where I see a problem.


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## Batty Krueger (Nov 25, 2013)

Back when I was into the Sonic(still am, just not really involved in the Sonic fandom by itself)thing the people on the forum I was on actually tried to make a good looking Sonic style OC. Now, they trace one of the characters and change the colors around and BAM! Fucking masterpiece.

I think the style is fun to draw and tweak around. Yeah it's easy, but it's still fun in my opinion.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Nov 25, 2013)

I don't like sonic style at all. It is horrific.


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## NoahGryphon (Nov 25, 2013)

i absolutely hate them. there so ugly/unrealstic!


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## Batty Krueger (Nov 25, 2013)

NoahGryphon said:


> i absolutely hate them. there so ugly/unrealstic!


Says the neon pink latex gryphon.



Oz-
Sorry, should have specified.


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## Kitsune Cross (Nov 25, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Says the neon pink latex gryphon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



grape flavored ._.


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## Carnau (Nov 25, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> When I was younger and during my neopets phase, I  made a Sonic character based on the "A man with no name" persona that I  drew myself. No recoloring needed since I based him off of a coyote.  Afterwards, I grew out of it and when I look at the art-style as it is,  there's some dissonance. I find it too easy and too repetitive to  recreate.
> 
> I will always be a fan of the Sonic SatAM, the genesis game, and the  Sega Dreamcast version, but I feel that Sonic recolors running rampant  stagnates the Sonic fandom.
> I guess I should look for the picture I drew of Clint and perhaps dip into the nostalgia pool.



I can't help but agree. It was actually the Satam show that got me back into Sonic a few weeks ago, the freedom fighters where actually a serious deal. I kind of wished the other games and shows kept them. Like the My little Pony fandom, I couldn't really stick with the Sonic fandom because things not only stagnated but started to feel weird. lol I wish I could be more specific about that.

Haha neopets... I had a little Shoyru action figure in my teens. Though I wasn't a big neopet user I did find the creatures remarkably adorable.



[video=youtube;SvTn8Qp8FAU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvTn8Qp8FAU[/video]


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## SirRob (Nov 25, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Seriously, it tool me all of 10 minutes to draw this. It is so easy, it is almost demeaning. :X


You're an esteemed artist. You SHOULD be able to draw that in 10 minutes! That doesn't make the style easy.

Honestly, I think the Sonic style is pretty hard to get down perfectly. Same goes with any style; it's hard as an outsider to create something that looks like it would fit in someone else's brand.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 25, 2013)

SirRob said:


> You're an esteemed artist. You SHOULD be able to draw that in 10 minutes! That doesn't make the style easy.
> 
> Honestly, I think the Sonic style is pretty hard to get down perfectly. Same goes with any style; it's hard as an outsider to create something that looks like it would fit in someone else's brand.




Uhh no actually she's not. That's the point. It's still an easy style to get down. We're not worried about perfect because no piece of artwork is ever perfect.


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## Zeitzbach (Nov 26, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Uhh no actually she's not. That's the point. It's still an easy style to get down. We're not worried about perfect because no piece of artwork is ever perfect.



The Perfect Rectangle cries. RIP dream of being perfect.


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Uhh no actually she's not. That's the point. It's still an easy style to get down. We're not worried about perfect because no piece of artwork is ever perfect.


I thought she was a pretty good artist from her Photobucket gallery... I guess I just don't have an eye for this sort of thing. Sorry.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> I thought she was a pretty good artist from her Photobucket gallery... I guess I just don't have an eye for this sort of thing. Sorry.



Not saying she's terrible, but I think a lot of intermediate artists can pick up this stuff, or more likely started with Sonic then actually learned that getting better is learning foundations.

I mean when you start thinking in the larger shapes it's easier to do this stuff. People get caught up in details, it's harder.


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

We definitely have different ideas of what is easy and difficult in art. 
That said, the fundamentals of art and personal style are two different things. You have to be able to pick up on the nuances of someone else's style in order to replicate it; it's not just about getting the general shapes down. That's why I believe it's difficult.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 26, 2013)

Just that people copy more Sonic than say Jim Lee or Todd McFarlane. Not just because of popularity but simplicity.


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

I don't think you can copy something convincingly without knowing the fundamentals and having the eye to capture its details. Yes, the Sonic style is more simple than that of the artists you've listed. But honestly, if you can accurately get the Sonic style down, getting those other styles right is just a matter of spending the time to do it-- at that point you already have the ability to capture it accurately.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 26, 2013)

Yeah, that's why we're seeing more Bouguereau, Android Jones, Weinstien, and Bengus clones...right?


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

Yeah, I wonder why people don't copy those guys I've never heard of. 
Popularity and media exposure play a huge role. The simplicity may serve as a gateway, as you've said, but you're not gonna get the style right if you don't understand art.


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## Ozriel (Nov 26, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not saying she's terrible, but I think a lot of intermediate artists can pick up this stuff, or more likely started with Sonic then actually learned that getting better is learning foundations.
> 
> I mean when you start thinking in the larger shapes it's easier to do this stuff. People get caught up in details, it's harder.


Most sonic recolor art does not even use foundation shapes and just trace while replacing colors and/or adding other details and clothes like tripp pants. At that point, its plagiarism.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Yeah, I wonder why people don't copy those guys I've never heard of.
> Popularity and media exposure play a huge role. The simplicity may serve as a gateway, as you've said, but you're not gonna get the style right if you don't understand art.



They are pretty popular and well known guys 2 of them worked in video games of major franchises. Also, does it matter, because you keep saying "Sonic Style" so you don't know the artists involved either. It's already been shown by people with less skill able to do the Sonic style easy. So other than going in circles which Sonic is pretty much is made of, people just want to make excuses that "oh it's not as easy as they say" when proven otherwise. Multiple times.


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

We're comparing a huge brand to individual artists. There is no way the popularity can be anywhere near equal. And I say brand, meaning it's a blanket style that multiple artists abide to. Popularity matters greatly, because people aren't going to copy artists they've never had exposure to. This is especially the case when the venues where we see all these style adaptations encourage fan art from shows and games. 
I can't agree with you about being proven otherwise; that's very subjective. I think Ozriel is a good artist, and given the time, she would definitely be able to nail any style. You can see in her Photobucket gallery that she makes use of the fundamentals of art, can add to it and can use multiple styles.


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## Ozriel (Nov 26, 2013)

SirRob said:


> We're comparing a huge brand to individual artists. There is no way the popularity can be anywhere near equal. And I say brand, meaning it's a blanket style that multiple artists abide to. Popularity matters greatly, because people aren't going to copy artists they've never had exposure to. This is especially the case when the venues where we see all these style adaptations encourage fan art from shows and games.
> I can't agree with you about being proven otherwise; that's very subjective. I think Ozriel is a good artist, and given the time, she would definitely be able to nail any style. You can see in her Photobucket gallery that she makes use of the fundamentals of art, can add to it and can use multiple styles.



It's full of junk, and some of the pics are commissions. :/

But thanks...I suppose.


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

I took a look at your FA gallery too, so I know you're good. I was curious, I remember you had one.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 26, 2013)

Doesn't matter. If you are just going to go in circles when it has been proven and stated otherwise it is not hard. It was intentionally done that way. The only hard thing involved was the design itself. The reason that is difficult is because  the usage. Simplicity as an icon, and for games. The only people bitching about how hard it is are people who don't spend time drawing.

It is like hearing how difficult it is to ride a bike by people who haven't really bothered to get on one. There are levels of mastery but overall the issue is the same from someone less knowledgeable.

That is why artists at a much lower level can do the style and in much less time than other works, since again it was designed to be easy and done with speed.

Coming up with that design was much harder since more people needed to access it.


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## SirRob (Nov 26, 2013)

The issue of time is due to the level of detail, and doesn't have to do with the skill required to draw it. The reason it's simple is so that it can be reproduced quickly and in different formats, but that doesn't mean it can be made accurately without artistic merit. 
I guess the reason I'm going in circles is because I had the idea that you thought a good artist was one that could reproduce the form of anything by breaking it down into shapes. Is there some other criteria that you didn't mention?


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## benignBiotic (Nov 26, 2013)

Only sonic char I would ever consider replicating is this baller:


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## Zeitzbach (Nov 26, 2013)

Please


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## SolDirix (May 30, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> Please



"Oh hey thar !"


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## LazerMaster5 (May 30, 2015)

Nice dredging, m8. *calls in lockstrike*


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## mcjoel (May 31, 2015)




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## Sylox (Jul 18, 2015)

why necro this abortion?


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## foussiremix (Jul 18, 2015)

NYA I dont like the sonic style because of this big feets  and the eye with  2 pupils and generally. I mean an fursona with sonic style could hurt his feet any where because they that fat and the arms look so thin.
In my eyes sonic art style is ugly .
I ONLY LIKE SANIC
SANIC IS LOVE SANIC IS LIFE


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## LazerMaster5 (Jul 18, 2015)

Reviving this thread is opening a can of worms. I do not mind the characters from Sonic, but whenever I see fanart, I think 12-year-olds that plague DeviantArt and eat way too many chili dogs.


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## Sylox (Jul 18, 2015)

I've never been a fan of Sonic.


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## Kalmor (Jul 18, 2015)

Please don't necro threads.


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