# Children.



## RoseHexwit (Sep 17, 2009)

Personally, I really don't like kids. I don't want any; I'd rather just surround myself with pets.

Is this a common thing in Furries? Or am I the only misanthrope? XD.

Uh, thanks.


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## Gavrill (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't think I'd legally be able to own a child :V


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Sep 17, 2009)

Shenzebo said:


> I don't think I'd legally be able to own a child :V


 Well, the thread lasted one minute before this.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

I am the single father of a crazy little 6 yr. old


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## Ratte (Sep 17, 2009)

I hate kids.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 17, 2009)

First son's name will be Eric.  First daughter's name will be Abigale.  If there's a second son or daughter, their name is Courtney. 

Shut up, Courtney is a beautiful name for a boy!


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## Gavrill (Sep 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> First son's name will be Eric.  First daughter's name will be Abigale.  If there's a second son or daughter, their name is Courtney.
> 
> Shut up, Courtney is a beautiful name for a boy!


It's better than what my mother would've named me, had I been a boy.

Corin Albien.


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## Kaamos (Sep 17, 2009)

I can't stand kids.


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## pheonix (Sep 17, 2009)

Kids are awesome as long as they're not yours.


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## SnowFox (Sep 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> First son's name will be Eric.  First daughter's name will be Abigale.  If there's a second son or daughter, their name is Courtney.
> 
> Shut up, Courtney is a beautiful name for a boy!



He's not even born yet and he's a fag


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## Seas (Sep 17, 2009)

Definitely no kids for me , too much annoyance, loss of free time, monetary reasons, etc...


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 17, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> He's not even born yet and he's a fag


 
He'd better grow up to be feminine or gay, or I'm gonna be SO pissed.

"No second child of mine is going to be some dirty breeder!  That's what we had your big brother for!"


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## Tucuxi (Sep 17, 2009)

I work with children as part of my job at a public aquarium. I've got nothing against them (other than some 2-4 year olds that can be awful) but I don't lack the stability or maturity to handle a child of my own. I can barely handle myself let alone the life of another human. Pets are tough enough and they don't have to go to college. If I change my mind, it'll be a very long way off. I refuse to have kids just because I have a uterus and society at large seems to tell me it's "my job". If I ever had a kid, I'd have JUST ONE. Having dozens of little ones won't help the environment OR my wallet. For now, though, I'm erring on the side of caution and saying I'll never have them.


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## SnowFox (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't really like kids and I'm pretty sure I'll never have them, but a small part of me would like one.

Me: Hey kid guess what? You have my shitty genes!
Kid: :?
Me: LOLLOLOLOL I PERMANENTLY IRL TROLLD U. NOW YOU'RE A FURFAILFAG TOO :V
Kid: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF




AshleyAshes said:


> He'd better grow up to be feminine or gay, or I'm gonna be SO pissed.
> 
> "No second child of mine is going to be some dirty breeder!  That's what we had your big brother for!"



oh you!


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## HoneyPup (Sep 17, 2009)

I have none, but some day I wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 of them.


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## Dass (Sep 17, 2009)

I really hate small children.


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## Ibuuyk (Sep 17, 2009)

Ratte said:


> I hate kids.



You kno, I think its the first thing we have in common <3

Nah but seriously, kids are just TOO stupid, grosses me out @_@


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

Oh come on, I understand people not liking kids, but they do some of the funniest things, which if done by adults would be: 
1 Stupid
2 Somewhat Dangerous
and 
3 Even more obnoxious


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## blackfuredfox (Sep 17, 2009)

pheonix said:


> Kids are awesome as long as they're not yours.



no, they arent, then you are a baby sitting option. i dont like them, but i figure if i have one, it will be a boy named Sue, no im not getting an idea from Ashley, i got it from Johnny.


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## Bacu (Sep 17, 2009)

I wouldn't mind having 3 or so...

Though, I'd like to skip the whole incoherent-nonwalking-bawling-grub stage. If they could be born at 4 or 5 years old, that'd be lovely.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 17, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> no, they arent, then you are a baby sitting option. i dont like them, but i figure if i have one, it will be a boy named Sue, no im not getting an idea from Ashley, i got it from Johnny.


 
Babysitting is fun.  I used to babysit.   I used to take care of these two boys, twins, but fraternal not identical, though they looked the same anyway.  They tried that twin 'You can't tel which of us is which' thing on me.  They found that their names were 'Hey, You' for the rest of the evening.


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## Ratte (Sep 17, 2009)

Shenzebo said:


> It's better than what my mother would've named me, had I been a boy.
> 
> Corin Albien.



Talon.


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## Gavrill (Sep 17, 2009)

Ratte said:


> Talon.


Seriously?


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm choosing not to ever have a kid, simply because I curse my birth parents for not keeping me so I could _probably_ turn out to be a yokel like everyone else (ignorance is bliss) and my adopted parents for allowing me to not turn out to be a complete psychopath, and feeling like that's actually put me at a disadvantage. And it's only gotten *worse* since I was little. I don't want to stack the deck against a child like that, or "raise" him to be something he might not be able to be.


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## Ratte (Sep 17, 2009)

Shenzebo said:


> Seriously?



Yep.


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## pheonix (Sep 17, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> no, they arent, then you are a baby sitting option. i dont like them, but i figure if i have one, it will be a boy named Sue, no im not getting an idea from Ashley, i got it from Johnny.



I get awesome stuff for babysitting my exes kid and she's funny as hell too. She goes around saying fuck you and stuff when she gets mad. She once told me to fuck off when I told her not to write on the walls. lol


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## blackfuredfox (Sep 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Babysitting is fun.  I used to babysit.   I used to take care of these two boys, twins, but fraternal not identical, though they looked the same anyway.  They tried that twin 'You can't tel which of us is which' thing on me.  They found that their names were 'Hey, You' for the rest of the evening.


try a fat 1 yr old who cries when he isnt eating, a 2 yr old who follows a 3 yr old who is the most disobedient and terrible chiild ive ever met.


Ratte said:


> Talon.



that is my 3 yr old nephews name.


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## Imperial Impact (Sep 17, 2009)

If I get a son, I will name him "Conn"


AshleyAshes said:


> First son's name will be Eric. First daughter's name will be Abigale. If there's a second son or daughter, their name is Courtney.
> 
> Shut up, Courtney is a beautiful name for a boy!


 Oh Lawl


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## Torrijos-sama (Sep 17, 2009)

When I start my cult, I plan on having 12 wives. 7 of which are underage. 
And I want to have 90 children. Jeff Warren and David Koresh, FTW.



Perverted Impact said:


> If I get a son, I will name him "Conn"
> 
> Oh Lawl


 
This is actually creepy to myself...


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## Shino (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd like to have a kid of my own at some point, but given my orientation, that may be a little difficult.

Gah, I'd probably be a horrible dad anyways.


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## Ikrit (Sep 17, 2009)

I WILL HAVE SO MEANY BABBYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OVER 9,000 BABBYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Zhael (Sep 17, 2009)

I love little kids   I babysit kids on a regular basis, and I already know I want two when I'm older.

When I'm older, being the operative.  Kid moved in here, she was fourteen, and she was trying to get pregnant... again...



lazyredhead said:


> I WILL HAVE SO MEANY BABBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> OVER 9,000 BABBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


How gurl get babby
How gurl get babby
How gurl got pragnint


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 17, 2009)

jesusfish2007 said:


> When I start my cult, I plan on having 12 wives. 7 of which are underage.
> And I want to have 90 children. Jeff Warren and David Koresh, FTW.
> 
> 
> ...



I was just reading up on that earlier today. After seeing a YouTube video of him talking, I don't get how anyone could've actually fallen for him/believed he was the returned messiah. He isn't the least bit charismatic.


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## Ikrit (Sep 17, 2009)

WolvenZhael said:


> I love little kids   I babysit kids on a regular basis, and I already know I want two when I'm older.
> 
> When I'm older, being the operative.  Kid moved in here, she was fourteen, and she was trying to get pregnant... again...
> 
> ...


They need to do way instain mother> who kill thier babbys. becuse these babby cant frigth back? it was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids. they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his children ; i am truley sorry for your lots


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## Torrijos-sama (Sep 17, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> I was just reading up on that earlier today. After seeing a YouTube video of him talking, I don't get how anyone could've actually fallen for him/believed he was the returned messiah. He isn't the least bit charismatic.


 
Im actually relatively charismatic in real life. OL and on videos, I am not.


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## Trevfox (Sep 17, 2009)

Gotta admit i think a kid would just piss me off plus i dnt think id b able to give him the life i would want for my own kid


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## TDK (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't have any atm, thank god dont want any baby mama drama around here. But I wouldn't mind havin' one or 2 when I settle down eventually.


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## Barak (Sep 17, 2009)

Maybe one :3

Boy name:Shepard
Girl name :Alicia


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## Kitsune Dzelda (Sep 17, 2009)

I have no clue what Id be if I was born the other way around. XD I should so ask my mum.  Thatsd be one heck of a converstaion! XD


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## Idlewild (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm not a huge fan of kids. There's a few I can get along with, but for the most part, I find them annoying and loud. :/ But here's the catch, I want a large family. I'm talking at LEAST 4 kids. I think I may be viewing them more as "accessories" at this point rather than actual small people.

But if I would've been born a boy, my name would either be Geoffrey or my dad's name, Milton. Thank goodness I have a vagina.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

I named my son. I didn't get my first choice Daemon, was told that was mean, like I cared.

I finally went for different.

"Emrys Kane *****"


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## Syl (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm a kid and I don't even like kids. I'd rather get a pet or something


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## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 17, 2009)

Didn't vote in the poll cause I have not decided yet.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

Smart Squirrel


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## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 17, 2009)

Drake-Lord said:


> Smart Squirrel



Lol. It is true, I may be 25 but I don't feel ready for any commitments yet. For one I don't have the means to financially support any kids at the moment. I would rather wait until I am financially better off before thinking about bring a kid into the world, I would want my kid(s) to have a decent childhood and not one spent living with little to nothing cause their dad can't afford it.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 17, 2009)

Syl said:


> I'm a kid and I don't even like kids. I'd rather get a pet or something



You still have to look after ya pets, feed them, water them, clean up after them, excercise them blah blah, unless you get a goldfish


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## Nargle (Sep 17, 2009)

I've never liked kids. I'd much rather have dogs. It's not because I'm some sort of misanthrope, though. Adults are fine. I just have a hard time understanding what they need, at any age, and I'm impatient with their immaturity.

Oh, and I absolutely hate when people use their children as some sort of status symbol and show them off. Or have them because they're cute, or they think they won't be a normal family if they don't. A person should ONLY have kids if they feel they can commit to he child for its entire lifetime and pour their heart and soul into crafting a better person. Not because of some stupid American dream.

And personally, I don't think I could have that kind of passion for a kid, and I simply couldn't have a kid and raise them half-assed. It's either all or nothing, so I chose nothing.


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## SpartaDog (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't mind kids, but I don't like the idea of stretching my bits to 10 cm, nor do I want to be responsible for this little creature for 18 years. Plus all those awkward "talks" and worrying about screwing up....

If I WERE to have kids, I'd adopt a little Asian boy. Yes, I'm dead serious.


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## Zhael (Sep 17, 2009)

Novaluna said:


> I don't mind kids, but I don't like the idea of stretching my bits to 10 cm, nor do I want to be responsible for this little creature for 18 years. Plus all those awkward "talks" and worrying about screwing up....
> 
> If I WERE to have kids, I'd adopt a little Asian boy. Yes, I'm dead serious.


Since I'm limited to adoption, I've always wanted to make a difference in doing so.  A child with AIDS, a child of a different race, or so on.


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## SpartaDog (Sep 17, 2009)

WolvenZhael said:


> Since I'm limited to adoption, I've always wanted to make a difference in doing so.  A child with AIDS, a child of a different race, or so on.



I agree. I think it's bullshit that people are always saying "SPAY AND NEUTER YOUR DOGS! THERE'S ENOUGH HOMELESS AND NEGLECTED DOGS OUT THERE! GO ADOPT!" and then they turn around and add another 6 kids to the 500 billion people in this world while there are so many homeless and neglected kids out there.


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## Zhael (Sep 17, 2009)

Novaluna said:


> I agree. I think it's bullshit that people are always saying "SPAY AND NEUTER YOUR DOGS! THERE'S ENOUGH HOMELESS AND NEGLECTED DOGS OUT THERE! GO ADOPT!" and then they turn around and add another 6 kids to the 500 billion people in this world while there are so many homeless and neglected kids out there.


Can't say it any better then that.


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## SpartaDog (Sep 17, 2009)

WolvenZhael said:


> Can't say it any better then that.



Still though, I'd constantly be worrying about fucking up his life. I don't know if I could handle that.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

Parenthood is a learning experiance. It takes an insane amount of paitients on all parts not just yours but, the kids as well, because its a new part of life.


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## Remy (Sep 17, 2009)

I'll stick with the four-legged furbaby option thank you. At least they don't talk back at you when they're teenagers.


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## Trpdwarf (Sep 17, 2009)

Children?

Do not want. I will not have. I'm for better standards of living. That means less children being born.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

Now that I can't argue with. Remy


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## CAThulu (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't have kids, and I'm kind of undecided here.   Working retail for 10 years and teaching karate for 5 years before, you get kind of jaded about having children.  They're loud, smelly, sticky, disease-ridden sugar addicts most of the time.

Then my brother had two boys and my opinion changed.  The way I see it I'll probably live vicariously through him.  And those kids are awesome, btw.   I just saw the 18 month old tonight and he's speaking partial sentences where a week ago it was just pointing and saying the objects name.  

Anyway, If I had a boy, it would be Liam.  Autumn if I had a girl.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

Kids are hillarious you just have to watch without being noticed.


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## CAThulu (Sep 17, 2009)

^ True *G*.   My nephews are always up to something crazy


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## Lobar (Sep 17, 2009)

They're tasty, but usually I can barely finish one, I couldn't imagine eating a second one in the same sitting.


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## madd foxx (Sep 17, 2009)

Ive always wanted kids, im 16 so im not to knowlegible about the subjuct, but if it were a boy i would probably name him Jude or Kelly (my family is Irish and that was supposed to be my name.)

I said 4 cause i love kids


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

madd foxx said:


> Ive always wanted kids, im 16 so im not to knowlegible about the subjuct, but if it were a boy i would probably name him Jude or Kelly (my family is Irish and that was supposed to be my name.)
> 
> I said 4 cause i love kids


 
More power to ya man, I have 1 son and would've liked to have had a daughter but, no more than that.


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## Armaetus (Sep 17, 2009)

None, don't need any hellspawn of mine running around since I would make a terrible parent.


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## Aurali (Sep 17, 2009)

I want a kid, but something tells me that's halfway because I'm sterile...


Ratte said:


> I hate kids.


Oh you'd make a cute mother >.>


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 17, 2009)

Eli said:


> I want a kid, but something tells me that's halfway because I'm sterile...


 
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.


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## Benn (Sep 17, 2009)

1 kid, maybe, eventually... Im not sure yet, but fractions of children wouldn't make sense/scare people...


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## Duality Jack (Sep 17, 2009)

I am paternal by nature so i would want kids when i am like 30? xD same age my pop had me and i like d that plan enjoy life and have the kids later


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## Azure (Sep 17, 2009)

I powerbomb children through coffee tables. The smell, sight, and sound of kids makes me slightly nauseous. This is the only way I can deal with my disease.  INB4 you were a kid once.  I sprung forth from my mothers vagina fully grown, clad in plate mail, and wielding a battle axe. I also sported a full beard, I might add.

EDIT- Like this http://www.rehupa.com/images/lancers_conan_warrior_painting.jpg


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## Shark_the_raptor (Sep 18, 2009)

*None.*

I don't like kids.  At all.


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## Drake-Lord (Sep 18, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> I powerbomb children through coffee tables. The smell, sight, and sound of kids makes me slightly nauseous. This is the only way I can deal with my disease. INB4 you were a kid once. I sprung forth from my mothers vagina fully grown, clad in plate mail, and wielding a battle axe. I also sported a full beard, I might add.
> 
> EDIT- Like this http://www.rehupa.com/images/lancers_conan_warrior_painting.jpg


 
That story sounds familiarly like a greek myth.
Is that a Molly Hatchet album cover?


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## Beta Link (Sep 18, 2009)

Well it's obviously too early for me to start planning for parenthood, but I think one would be enough, though 2 or 3 would be ok. Not going above 3 though. Not doing it.


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## Azure (Sep 18, 2009)

Drake-Lord said:


> That story sounds familiarly like a greek myth.
> Is that a Molly Hatchet album cover?


Conan the Barbarian, good sir.  He was my father.


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## Endless Humiliation (Sep 18, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> I powerbomb children through coffee tables. The smell, sight, and sound of kids makes me slightly nauseous. This is the only way I can deal with my disease.  INB4 you were a kid once.  I sprung forth from my mothers vagina fully grown, clad in plate mail, and wielding a battle axe. I also sported a full beard, I might add.
> 
> EDIT- Like this http://www.rehupa.com/images/lancers_conan_warrior_painting.jpg



MADDOX??????


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 18, 2009)

I plan to have 1 - 2 max.


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## aftershok (Sep 18, 2009)

I have one,, and that's it. That is also all I ever wanted. So it worked out.  She is great and 16,,


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## Telnac (Sep 18, 2009)

Four: two natural, two artificial.

Already have one of the former.  Can't wait til technology advances enough for the latter to be possible.


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## N35544 (Sep 18, 2009)

i wouldn't mind 2, at least after a while... I absolutely can't stand screaming babies


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## Thatch (Sep 18, 2009)

If I'd ever have any (which I can't say I DON'T want to, I just won't woe if I won't), I'd rather have two at once. They keep eachother occupied, just like pets, leaving you some time to rest. Generations of parents advise that XD


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## ToeClaws (Sep 18, 2009)

No kids here, and no plans to ever have any.  I simply don't have the patience to be a father and could not part with such a huge amount of my personal time for anything other than my mate and friends.  There's also the money factor - kids are simply too expensive.


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## Yaps (Sep 18, 2009)

More to the side of no. Otherwise 2. But hey! Weren't we kids once in our life too?


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## Kokusho (Sep 18, 2009)

At most, I want two of the little brats. All that's needed first is to find the second half of the equation in creating the little demon spawn


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

"Children produce sounds and odors. This is a bad thing." :V

EDIT: Hey, OP, question--is there a word for hating not only people, but all existing life regardless of species?
Because if there is, _that's_ what I am.



Eli said:


> I'm sterile


Yeah, represent!


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## Bambi (Sep 18, 2009)

Eh, kids with intelligence, or GTFO.


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## Thatch (Sep 18, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> EDIT: Hey, OP, question--is there a word for hating not only people, but all existing life regardless of species?
> Because if there is, _that's_ what I am.



Yeah, there is. "Bitter".


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## Yaps (Sep 18, 2009)

Bambi said:


> Eh, kids with intelligence, or GTFO.



Well if they naughty then that is a different story...


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## Hir (Sep 18, 2009)

Theres the whole homosexuality thing holding me back. I might adopt one day, but we'll see when the time comes.


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## Tucuxi (Sep 18, 2009)

Bacu said:


> I wouldn't mind having 3 or so...
> 
> Though, I'd like to skip the whole incoherent-nonwalking-bawling-grub stage. If they could be born at 4 or 5 years old, that'd be lovely.



Dear God this x1000.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> Theres the whole homosexuality thing holding me back. I might adopt one day, but we'll see when the time comes.


You still have your balls, don't you? You don't even have to sleep with a woman to get her pregnant nowadays :V


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## net-cat (Sep 18, 2009)

Ask me when I'm 30.


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## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Someday maybe when and if I find someone.


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## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 18, 2009)

Two, so that I don't have to live off of social welfare when I'm old. 

Erm, wait, no, to make worthy statesmen.


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## Ragnarok-Cookies (Sep 18, 2009)

If I really need to have child/adopt with the mate of my choice. then so let it be.

._. I'm going to hate the infant stages.


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

Kids...meh.
As a female, society just _assumes_ all I want is a baby. But I really can't stick them most of the time...

I mean, they can be cute, but they're also creepy. They STARE at you and emit the highest squeals. Their bodies are totally out of proportion, and it's like they're a different species--some people say "it" instead of "s/he" about babies, too.

As has already been said, I'd rather skip the baby/toddler stage completely, you know? If I ever decide I'll have kids, I'd adopt, so I can avoid the baby stage and I'd really rather help someone who could actually use parents than make a new person.

I personally think people who "want a bay-bee soooooo much!!!111one!" should actually consider adopting one, rather than spend a fortune on IVF. Just because your child doesn't have your genes, doesn't mean you won't love them. :/


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## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> Kids...meh.
> As a female, society just _assumes_ all I want is a baby. But I really can't stick them most of the time...
> 
> I mean, they can be cute, but they're also creepy. They STARE at you and emit the highest squeals. Their bodies are totally out of proportion, and it's like they're a different species--some people say "it" instead of "s/he" about babies, too.
> ...


 
Sometimes it can, If proper bonding does not happen. wait what am I doing. 
Fuck devils advocate, I agree with you.


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> Sometimes it can, If proper bonding does not happen. wait what am I doing.
> Fuck devils advocate, I agree with you.


 
Damn right, you do.


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## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> Damn right, you do.


 
Hi 5

Ive had a bloody good day


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> If I really need to have child/adopt with the mate of my choice. then so let it be.
> 
> ._. I'm going to hate the infant stages.


Did you know you can also adopt children who _aren't_ still infants? It's true!


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> Hi 5
> 
> Ive had a bloody good day


 
*high fives terrifying bunny w/ footpaw*

Good day? Elaborate?


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## ramsay_baggins (Sep 18, 2009)

I want two =3

My nephew has just turned one and he is the cutest thing ever XD Always smiling and laughing, hardly ever cries and just generally fun and awesome to be around.


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## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> *high fives terrifying bunny w/ footpaw*
> 
> Good day? Elaborate?


 
well biology was ok nothing more, maths was boring.
But I spent the day with my mates and got to come home early, got a kitkat.
I also impressed my friends with my epic bread making abillitys. 
I also took hot chocolate to college.


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## Bandy (Sep 18, 2009)

*Right now I do not want kids. I don't mind some of them. Like my nieces but that's about it. I am currently babysitting a cute 5 year old who is crazy about science and he is pretty cool.

I don't know if I want any of my own. All I want right now out of life is a stable job I love, a nice house, somewhere cooler, with some land, and a dog. 

If I did have kids I would like twin boys. I don't know why. Apparently from stories I have heard twins run in my family so I may get what I want. XD (be careful what you wish for, huh?)*


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## Kitsune Dzelda (Sep 18, 2009)

Personally Id like to have a child, to carry on the tradition, but then again, Im not sure someone like me is ever going to have children, let alone commit enough to the task. XD

After all , this world has too many humans as it is.


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## Ozriel (Sep 18, 2009)

Children are nothing but heathen baboons. >:{
Well...not all.


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## 8-bit (Sep 18, 2009)

Kids suck. don't want more than one.

They're parasites. Even before they're born, they suck joy out of people's lives.


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> well biology was ok nothing more, maths was boring.
> But I spent the day with my mates and got to come home early, got a kitkat.
> I also impressed my friends with my epic bread making abillitys.
> I also took hot chocolate to college.


 
Aw, that's nice. Hanging with friends is often the best thing going, over theme parks, even (unless you're with them there!).

Last time I made bread was in high school, I _think_ it was alright....

BRILLIANT TACTIC TO STAY ON THREAD TOPIC: Teach your kids the value of science, because it is wonderful. I wish my parents had. ;__;


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

Kitsune Dzelda said:


> Personally Id like to have a child, to carry on the tradition, but then again, Im not sure someone like me is ever going to have children, let alone commit enough to the task. XD


Yes, it is rather difficult for genderless mythical beings :V



> After all , this world has too many humans as it is.


Hey, give me some time. I'm working on that one.


----------



## Nocturne (Sep 18, 2009)

I wouldn't want any more than two I think.  I definitely want kids at some point though... thats far off though x3


----------



## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

Whaddo you furs think is a good age to consider having kids? 

I've heard 25, but it seems a ridiculous notion, because my friends and I are 21/22 and NONE of us are even looking after _ourselves_ properly.

Heh...


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> Whaddo you furs think is a good age to consider having kids?


30-35. By then, you're already done looking good, but you're also done caring about such trivial things as much as you did in your 20s. At the same time, though, you're not quite middle-aged yet, so your body's still probably in good enough shape to handle it reasonably well.



> I've heard 25, but it seems a ridiculous notion, because my friends and I are 21/22 and NONE of us are even looking after _ourselves_ properly.


According to some statistics I read, the average American woman has roughly 2 kids by the time she's 28. I forget whether the exact number was closer to 1 or 3, but ugh.


----------



## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> Whaddo you furs think is a good age to consider having kids?
> 
> I've heard 25, but it seems a ridiculous notion, because my friends and I are 21/22 and NONE of us are even looking after _ourselves_ properly.
> 
> Heh...


 
When ever the person in question is ready. I think thats how it goes.


----------



## Bandy (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> When ever the person in question is ready. I think thats how it goes.


*Agreed, whenever the person is emotionally and financially stable.*


----------



## Nargle (Sep 18, 2009)

Remy said:


> I'll stick with the four-legged furbaby option thank you. At least they don't talk back at you when they're teenagers.



That is a gross misconception XD Dogs from around the age of 6 months to 2 years go through periods of rebelliousness and seem to forget everything you've taught them before, and instead bark at you and/or run away if you ask them to do something. 



AzurePhoenix said:


> I powerbomb children through coffee tables. The smell, sight, and sound of kids makes me slightly nauseous. This is the only way I can deal with my disease. INB4 you were a kid once. I sprung forth from my mothers vagina fully grown, clad in plate mail, and wielding a battle axe. I also sported a full beard, I might add.
> 
> EDIT- Like this http://www.rehupa.com/images/lancers_conan_warrior_painting.jpg




Is that stuff you're standing on the afterbirth? D:


----------



## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> When ever the person in question is ready. I think thats how it goes.


 
But your average chav thinks she's ready at 14-16. 
That's not right. D:

Rigor's opinion of being in your 30s seems to make sense...


----------



## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> But your average chav thinks she's ready at 14-16.
> That's not right. D:
> 
> Rigor's opinion of being in your 30s seems to make sense...


 
It really depends on your stand point, my cousin was 13 when she got pregnant happily married now at 19 with a husband with a steady job and is completely fine.
she was ready to have a kid, even if it was too young for my liking.


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> It really depends on your stand point, my cousin was 13 when she got pregnant happily married now at 19 with a husband with a steady job and is completely fine.
> she was ready to have a kid, even if it was too young for my liking.


Let me know if they're still together in ten years, without any divorces or separations. I'll send a congratulatory bouquet.


----------



## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> Let me know if they're still together in ten years, without any divorces or separations. I'll send a congratulatory bouquet.


 
will do


----------



## Tewin Follow (Sep 18, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> It really depends on your stand point, my cousin was 13 when she got pregnant happily married now at 19 with a husband with a steady job and is completely fine.
> she was ready to have a kid, even if it was too young for my liking.


 
Er, good for her, it's nice that it seems to have worked out.
But how did she manage to finish school and support herself if she was barely a teenager? Her husband paid for it all?
A whole fuck-ton of kids are getting pregnant with no means to support a human being. At all. It's highly irresponsible, but I guess it's another topic. :U


----------



## ChrisPanda (Sep 18, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> Er, good for her, it's nice that it seems to have worked out.
> But how did she manage to finish school and support herself if she was barely a teenager? Her husband paid for it all?
> A whole fuck-ton of kids are getting pregnant with no means to support a human being. At all. It's highly irresponsible, but I guess it's another topic. :U


 
I didn't agree with it but I sort of guess she was ready.

Yes and It is a real problem teenage pregnancy at the moment, doesn't help that one side of my family are chavs and one aunty has 5 kids and the other has 9.


----------



## Irreverent (Sep 18, 2009)

net-cat said:


> Ask me when I'm 30.



33 was my magic number.  That was the year my mate's biological clock rang.....like "Big Ben" 

Now we have two darling daughters, 8 and 4 years old.  My eldest just finished "The Spyderwick Chronicles" and wants to fence with me.  The younger has already adopted one of my paintball cannons, and wants a pink target rifle.  I think we'll let her grow a bit first.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 18, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> 4 years old.



It's not so cool having a father that could be your grandfather :V
Though I'll get inheritance quicker :V


----------



## selkie (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm not gonna make any, there's plenty of good ones already there. O:


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

szopaw said:


> It's not so cool having a father that could be your grandfather :V


Still probably better than being your own grandfather, I should hope :V


----------



## Thatch (Sep 18, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> Still probably better than being your own grandfather, I should hope :V



Dunno, never tried. 


I really don't know how to salvage anything funny from this wreck of a joke :V


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

szopaw said:


> I really don't know how to salvage anything funny from this wreck of a joke :V


It's not even a joke, just an obscure reference to some song that later appeared in the movie _The Stupids_. I need a nap.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 18, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> It's not even a joke, just an obscure reference to some song that later appeared in the movie _The Stupids_. I need a nap.



Ah. Obscure enough, I guess. I never saw the movie, and heard the song in it the more.


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Ah. Obscure enough, I guess. I never saw the movie, and song in it the more.


You probably wouldn't get all of it anyway. Lots of American jokes in there, if memory serves. But you could try anyway. A lot of the remaining stupidity is universal.

The idea in the song is that the man was 20 and he married a 40-year-old woman after her husband died or left or something. Then his father, a widower of 40 years, met the woman's 20-year-old daughter at the wedding reception and then later married her. So his grandfather is also his son-in-law.
I might've gotten the order wrong, though.


----------



## twelvestring (Sep 18, 2009)

If I have kids they'll live with their mother.


----------



## twelvestring (Sep 18, 2009)

I pretty much raise my 3yr old nephew as a son since his alcoholic father ditched out about a month after he was born. I feel I should warn you all that I'm pretty sure there's something in baby saliva that drains the life force of anything it comes in contact with, and that's why you should avoid the baby drool at all cost. They're stealing your youth!


----------



## Furygan (Sep 18, 2009)

Small kids...*Facepalm* But once they get past the 'stupid' fase and get the same interests as his/her parents,not end in jail and keep straight they're kinda cool.
I remember when i first put a knee down riding a tuned 50cc Honda MB 2-stroke racing 'motorcycle' on circuit my father seemed kinda emotional as he could not continue racing back in the 80's,It made him happy! And if i'm lucky and get the money/sponsored i can 'follow his footsteps' and maybe even surpass him in the future,though you never say that,fathers are your best friends right? Well for most. :/
Kids can be cool,and i might consider getting them but not EVER more than 2,and i'm not looking forward to age 0~10ish Lol. Just the thought u could mean something for someone filling in a role as father,and seeing your son or daughter being succesful,i'd love that,normally i'm not that much of an emotional person but this is something that has been bothering me for a while. >.>

Sorry for the wall of text people. xD


----------



## greg-the-fox (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm sparing my unborn children the horrors of the inevitable zombie apocalypse.

:V

So yeah, no kids for me. (hate those bastards)


----------



## Dodger Greywing (Sep 18, 2009)

No kids, ever.  I can't stand kids, and I'm vain and money-grubbing; not exactly qualities conducive to birthing and raising children.


----------



## Bandy (Sep 18, 2009)

*Once kids get old enough to have some sort of an attention span, they can be cool. I love being able to teach something to a kid. That's something they will keep with them a long time. Before my brother and nieces moved away, I was teaching them to ride their bikes without training wheels. The youngest went a couple of feet and crashed but she looked so dang happy. She was so excited she rode a bike for two whole seconds. ^^*


----------



## The Walkin Dude (Sep 18, 2009)

With exceptions being few and far between, kids under 8 irritate the piss out of me.


----------



## Furygan (Sep 19, 2009)

The Walkin Dude said:


> With exceptions being few and far between, kids under 8 irritate the piss out of me.


 
More like under 10-12 Lol


----------



## Nargle (Sep 19, 2009)

The vast majority of people in general annoy me, why would I want to take care of someone under 18??


----------



## Devious Bane (Sep 19, 2009)

I hate kids.


----------



## Furygan (Sep 19, 2009)

Nargle said:


> The vast majority of people in general annoy me, why would I want to take care of someone under 18??


 
Hmmm...I Guess you are right quite a bit. XD


----------



## Aderanko (Sep 19, 2009)

YOU BLOODY KIDS ARE DOING MY FECKIN' HEAD IN!


----------



## Thatch (Sep 19, 2009)

Nargle said:


> The vast majority of people in general annoy me, why would I want to take care of someone under 18??



Pedophilia?


----------



## LizardKing (Sep 19, 2009)

Myself, I will never have babies
To be honest I'd rather have scabies
They scream and they smell
I'd damn them to hell
Then feed them to dogs that have rabies


----------



## Furygan (Sep 19, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Myself, I will never have babies
> To be honest I'd rather have scabies
> They scream and they smell
> I'd damn them to hell
> Then feed them to dogs that have rabies


 
*claps and wipes a tear*

Such...Beautiful poetry...


----------



## Russ (Sep 19, 2009)

I have thought about it now and then for most of the time, I just can't imagine living under the same roof with a thing that will wake me up all night, piss, shit and puke everywhere, make that obnoxious noise whenever it is unsatisfied, suck on my savings for the following two decades (give or take) and destroy any sense of privacy, solitude and personal space I have.

No thanks. Personally I'm surprised my parents didn't throw me down a well when I was little. I was not only obnoxious with my constant crying but I was also very sickly. Screw that.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Sep 19, 2009)

Yes, I wants chillun.


----------



## The Walkin Dude (Sep 19, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Myself, I will never have babies
> To be honest I'd rather have scabies
> They scream and they smell
> I'd damn them to hell
> Then feed them to dogs that have rabies


 

Seriously...that is fucking brilliant.


----------



## Otis-Reamclaw (Sep 19, 2009)

I'd like to have kids one day. Probably three. Although that's a little far into the future for me. 

Why do furries hate kids? Some are annoying, yeah, but you'd be surprised sometimes. Besides, EVERYONE was a kid once.


----------



## Russ (Sep 20, 2009)

Otis-Reamclaw said:


> Besides, EVERYONE was a kid once.


 
Exactly! I know firsthand what kind of an intolerable pile of misery I was. Why would I want to inflict that on myself?


----------



## Thatch (Sep 20, 2009)

Otis-Reamclaw said:


> Besides, EVERYONE was a kid once.



And I'm not proud of it. Neither I am of other things I did not choose.
Just because I was a kid doesn't mean I'm not allowed to demand better from my own. Hell, I SHOULD, so they wouldn't copy my mistakes. It's an important thing called improvement. I should do better where my parents did wrong.


----------



## Furygan (Sep 20, 2009)

Lolololol... @ Russ.


----------



## Nargle (Sep 20, 2009)

Otis-Reamclaw said:


> I'd like to have kids one day. Probably three. Although that's a little far into the future for me.
> 
> Why do furries hate kids? Some are annoying, yeah, but you'd be surprised sometimes. Besides, EVERYONE was a kid once.



Um, I don't dislike kids because I'm a furry, I dislike them because I dislike them.


----------



## Furygan (Sep 20, 2009)

Let's buy some 12yo's in eastern europe or russia.


----------



## SnowFox (Sep 20, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Um, I don't dislike kids because I'm a furry, I dislike them because I dislike them.



Smelly sticky filthy noisy selfish obnoxious disease bags.

I want to have 2 some day ^^


----------



## moonchylde (Sep 20, 2009)

I like most kids, but as for raising my own, I don't know. Honestly, I can barely take care of myself at the moment. Besides, it's much more fun to play with my nieces and nephew, as I can stuff them full of candy and sugar, get them all wound up and have a good time... and when I'm done, I can give them back to their parents and relax. Plus, I get to buy lots of noisy toys for Christmas and birthdays that make the kids love me and my sister threaten to kill me, and I never have to hear them. It's win-win.


----------



## Jessica Chen (Sep 20, 2009)

I love kids but I don't want any


----------



## El Furicuazo (Sep 20, 2009)

For my part, I'd like to have 2 children (maybe 3), & 1 of them should be adopted.  Since I'm quite mature for my teen age, I actually realize starting a family with children would be best to do by around 35 years of age.


----------



## Ibuuyk (Sep 20, 2009)

I guess my cousin's one of the reasons I hate kids.  He has Tourette, the worst case of Autism, he's hyperactive, retarded, and a sore loser.


----------



## Wildside (Sep 21, 2009)

Ick...I usually wind up being the one that has to watch after other people's kids when they come over to our house. Their parents are so air headed that they don't notice their child ran off somewhere in our house. I then I have to chase them down, take what ever sharp object they have out of their hands or stop them from destroying whatever, and bring them back. 

So I've grown to hate hate kids, and their parents just as a bonus.


----------



## Adelio Altomar (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm planning on an average Mexican family of about six to nine with my future husband! <3


----------



## Icarus (Sep 21, 2009)

Two.
But, in all seriousness, -I'm- probably not going to be the one deciding how many children my future wife and I have...


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 21, 2009)

Adelio Altomar said:


> I'm planning on an average Mexican family of about six to nine with my future husband! <3


 Wat?


----------



## alaskawolf (Sep 21, 2009)

i cant have kids


----------



## Holsety (Sep 21, 2009)

Adelio Altomar said:


> I'm planning on an average Mexican family of about six to nine with my future husband! <3


God help us all.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm adopting. I saw videos of childbirth in human Growth and Development in Elementary school. Do you think I want to put the woman I love through a xenomorphic and as painful of a process as that? Especially to bring a child into the world when there already people who are sent from foster-parent to foster parent with no hope of adoption? 

I've been told that "it's worth it" but after hearing so many stories of women who just abandon their children, reject their babies and put them up for adoption, or treat their little bundle of joy like shit...then men who do even worse...


----------



## CoronaRadiata (Sep 22, 2009)

It's not that I don't like them, it's simply that I seem to lack the proper "kiddie entertainer" mindset.


----------



## kashaki (Sep 22, 2009)

I might want some. The free labour is always nice to have.


----------



## ShadowEon (Sep 22, 2009)

I would only have a kid simply because I love my significant other so much. But I would only actually get preggy after i'm married and wouldn't want to do it right away. I don't like kids at all but for my other,if they would really like one,i'll have one for them. But only one. Having a ton of kids is irresponsible,regardless of your religious beliefs.


----------



## Aprice (Sep 22, 2009)

I guess I'm one of the wierd ones and actually _want_ to be a mom. xD 
I love kids, and am very patient with them, I've been working off and on a pre-school day care center for the past two years. 
I ultimately want three, two mine and one adopted. <3 But who knows what the future holds?


----------



## Nargle (Sep 22, 2009)

ShadowEon said:


> I would only have a kid simply because I love my significant other so much.



Okay, _what_?? I will never, ever understand how that's even logical.

Maybe instead of only thinking of yourselves ("I want a kid" vs. "I don't want a kid") you should think of the life you would potentially be bringing into this world. Do you think you'd be a good mother despite the fact that you don't like kids? I know that regardless of how much my boyfriend wants a kid (For the record, neither of us do; we definitely prefer dogs) I will still never have a kid, because I can't see myself being a good mother. Yeah, sure, you may upset your partner by refusing to have a kid, but how will the kid feel??

As I've stated before, the only reason a person should ever decide to have kids is because they want to pour their heart and soul into crafting a healthy, happy, successful new person. Not because they want to live the "American Dream" (or fitting into the norm for your country, whatever it is) or because they want to fulfill some maternal instinct, or to please their partner. If you do it for any other reason than the sake of the kid, then you're just being selfish.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 22, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Okay, _what_?? I will never, ever understand how that's even logical.
> 
> Maybe instead of only thinking of yourselves ("I want a kid" vs. "I don't want a kid") you should think of the life you would potentially be bringing into this world. Do you think you'd be a good mother despite the fact that you don't like kids? I know that regardless of how much my boyfriend wants a kid (For the record, neither of us do; we definitely prefer dogs) I will still never have a kid, because I can't see myself being a good mother. Yeah, sure, you may upset your partner by refusing to have a kid, but how will the kid feel??
> 
> As I've stated before, the only reason a person should ever decide to have kids is because they want to pour their heart and soul into crafting a healthy, happy, successful new person. Not because they want to live the "American Dream" (or fitting into the norm for your country, whatever it is) or because they want to fulfill some maternal instinct, or to please their partner. If you do it for any other reason than the sake of the kid, then you're just being selfish.



And somehow accidental parents still manage to raise normal human beings. Even if they actually DIDN'T want them.

Let's face it, up until you're a generally responsible person, it all doesn't matter. Generations of parents found out that "shaping" almost never works out, because it's the enviroment that shapes the kid, as humans are social beings and grow up to live in society, and their role is to protect their child from harm and eventually teach some principles they hold dear. Unless they shelter the kid, but that's just sick and wrong. So unless the enviroment is pathological and you're abusive, what you're saying is no argument.

I don't know what you exactly mean by saying that you wouldn't make a good mother, but I won't reveal anything shocking when I say that genereations upon generations of people said the exact same things. And later they usually had kids, those grew up and also had kids. And the world went on.

tl;dr - nature is still ahead of you.


----------



## Nargle (Sep 22, 2009)

szopaw said:


> And somehow accidental parents still manage to raise normal human beings. Even if they actually DIDN'T want them.
> 
> Let's face it, up until you're a generally responsible person, it all doesn't matter. Generations of parents found out that their role is to protect their child from harm and eventually teach some principles they hold dear, but unless thye shelter the kid, it's the enviroment that shapes them. So unless the enviroment is pathological and you're abusive, what you're saying is no argument.
> 
> ...




Just because a person has kids and they don't abuse/kill them doesn't mean they're good parents. And just because people have children for the wrong reasons doesn't mean they won't end up being good parents. But regardless, it's still wrong to only think about yourself when it comes to having kids. There are WAY too many bad parents, and yeah the world isn't a perfect place, but what's wrong is still wrong. People are going to just keep popping out kids and leaving them with all sorts of problems, just like people are going to keep buying puppies because they're cute and then toss them in the backyard to rot once they realize it takes effort to raise them. That doesn't mean I can't think it's wrong. Also, kids aren't as resilient as you may think. Even if the child isn't legally being neglected or abused, emotional damage can leave a horrible scar.

tl;dr, It's not all about you when it comes to having a kid. It should never be.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 22, 2009)

Wait, is Nargle saying you should have a kid for the kid's sake no matter what you think?


----------



## Nargle (Sep 22, 2009)

Pretty much.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 22, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Pretty much.


So someone should give their lives up for the sake of something that won't exist if they don't make it? 

That doesn't even...


----------



## Chickenspirit (Sep 22, 2009)

I hate kids an patnership. So, I shall remain single!


----------



## Nargle (Sep 22, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> So someone should give their lives up for the sake of something that won't exist if they don't make it?
> 
> That doesn't even...



Okay, what? Who said anyone is giving up their life? I'm just saying the only non-selfish reason to want a kid is if you want to give your kid a great life and to make them a better person. And that reasons such as wanting a "normal" family, to please your partner, and because babies are "cute" are all just selfish reasons and could possibly lead to the suffering of the child. People who have kids for the last three reasons aren't thinking about the kid at all, just themselves.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 22, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Okay, what? Who said anyone is giving up their life? I'm just saying the only non-selfish reason to want a kid is if you want to give your kid a great life and to make them a better person. And that reasons such as wanting a "normal" family, to please your partner, and because babies are "cute" are all just selfish reasons and could possibly lead to the suffering of the child. People who have kids for the last three reasons aren't thinking about the kid at all, just themselves.


Ok, I was confused.  I thought you were saying that people should_ have_ kids for the kids' sakes, not that when people have kids, they should consider the life they're putting the kids in.  I was just trying to say that you shouldn't think ONLY about the kids.  You still have to think about yourself and your own life and what having kids would do to it.


----------



## Tycho (Sep 22, 2009)

Having children is a grand experiment or something, apparently - "Hey, let's see what we can mold little screaming lumps of flesh into over the course of 18+ years! Maybe we can make miniatures of ourselves!"


----------



## Thatch (Sep 22, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Just because a person has kids and they don't abuse/kill them doesn't mean they're good parents. And just because people have children for the wrong reasons doesn't mean they won't end up being good parents. But regardless, it's still wrong to only think about yourself when it comes to having kids. There are WAY too many bad parents, and yeah the world isn't a perfect place, but what's wrong is still wrong. People are going to just keep popping out kids and leaving them with all sorts of problems, just like people are going to keep buying puppies because they're cute and then toss them in the backyard to rot once they realize it takes effort to raise them. That doesn't mean I can't think it's wrong. Also, kids aren't as resilient as you may think. Even if the child isn't legally being neglected or abused, emotional damage can leave a horrible scar.
> 
> tl;dr, It's not all about you when it comes to having a kid. It should never be.



Your only objection seems to be neglect... But you so know that it just falls under "being irresponsible"? And I said clearly "up until you ARE a generally responsible person". Irresponsible people shouldn't be allowed to take care of any living being (altough still even children with such parents do manage to rise into normal people at times, as long as they don't fall into the wrong crowd). An irresponsible person will fail as your definition of a good parent even despite the best intentions. Because they'll first do damage and later try to fix it, but that rarely, if ever works. What's done, is done, no sugarcoating will change it.

So basically yeah, IMO being a good parent boils down to not being abusive and showing support where it's needed. No need to go out of your way, doing a herculean job to rise the kid into the perfect person. As long as the kids themselves aren't somehow deficient as human beings (personality is also a major factor here. If someone is prone to fall under bad influence, there's really not much you can do), if you prevent them from getting scarring experiences before they're able to think for themselves and their social enviroment is normal, they'll grow up as a normal person.
At least that's the lowest common denominator with 'normal' people whose families I managed to find anything about.

As for kids not being resilient - even those with worse family situation, like my oldest friend, still managed to grow up into a fairly normal person, even despite the neglect you mention. But he hanged out in a normal crowd along with me, not with some shady element. So guess again.

Seriously, didn't you grow up with other people or what?


----------



## Nargle (Sep 22, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Ok, I was confused.  I thought you were saying that people should_ have_ kids for the kids' sakes, not that when people have kids, they should consider the life they're putting the kids in. I was just trying to say that you shouldn't think ONLY about the kids. You still have to think about yourself and your own life and what having kids would do to it.



Well, I agree with you. I'm thinking about both myself and the potential kid. I would absolutely hate raising kids, and I think it would ruin my life. And I wouldn't be a good mother, so I wouldn't want to ruin the kid's life, either. Therefore, I opt for no kids =3

But in cases where the potential parent would make a bad parent, the potential kid is more important. People can get over not being a parent to spare the potential kid a bad life. Having bad parents is much harder to get over.



szopaw said:


> Your only objection seems to be neglect... But you so know that it just falls under "being irresponsible"? And I said clearly "up until you ARE a generally responsible person". Irresponsible people shouldn't be allowed to take care of any living being (altough still even children with such parents do manage to rise into normal people at times, as long as they don't fall into the wrong crowd). An irresponsible person will fail as your definition of a good parent even despite the best intentions. Because they'll first do damage and later try to fix it, but that rarely, if ever works. What's done, is done, no sugarcoating will change it.
> 
> So basically yeah, IMO being a good parent boils down to not being abusive and showing support where it's needed. No need to go out of your way, doing a herculean job to rise the kid into the perfect person. As long as the kids themselves aren't somehow deficient as human beings (personality is also a major factor here. If someone is prone to fall under bad influence, there's really not much you can do), if you prevent them from getting scarring experiences before they're able to think for themselves and their social enviroment is normal, they'll grow up as a normal person.
> At least that's the lowest common denominator with 'normal' people whose families I managed to find anything about.
> ...



>.< You seem to be reading into my post a bit too much. I'm not talking about responsibility or maturity. I'm talking about having kids for the wrong reasons.


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## Thatch (Sep 22, 2009)

Nargle said:


> >.< You seem to be reading into my post a bit too much. I'm not talking about responsibility or maturity. I'm talking about having kids for the wrong reasons.



You said that the 'wrong' reasons mean the people will be bad parents. And I'm trying to say it doesn't matter at all. Furthermore, is wanting to have a family a wrong reason? I'd say not, there's nothing more natural than that.
Shadow doesn't have to like kids to be a responsible parent, as long as she sucks it up and won't play it out on the kid. That's what being a responsible person means - accepting all the consequences while making a choice.
I'm not reading too much into your posts, I'm completely denying them, as they don't reflect reality. It doesn't matter why you want to have kids, or even wheter you want to at all, as long you do your job as a parent correctly.


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## Nargle (Sep 22, 2009)

szopaw said:


> You said that the 'wrong' reasons mean the people will be bad parents. And I'm trying to say it doesn't matter at all. Furthermore, is wanting to have a family a wrong reason? I'd say not, there's nothing more natural than that.
> Shadow doesn't have to like kids to be a responsible parent, as long as she sucks it up and won't play it out on the kid. That's what being a responsible person means - accepting all the consequences while making a choice.
> I'm not reading too much into your posts, I'm completely negating them.



Yeah, wanting a family just so you can feel happy is selfish. Being selfish is wrong. There's a difference between being selfish and being a bad parent, though. However, selfish people tend to ignore the fact that what they want may not be what's best for others. If you wanted to have a family so you can make your family members happy and raise your children to be good people, then that's not so selfish. 

In my original reply to ShadowEon's post, I didn't assume she was going to be a bad parent because she didn't like kids. I don't know her at all, I have no idea how she would raise her kids. I merely proposed that she rethink her priorities and actually think about whether or not she would be a good mother, because her reasons for wanting children is what I consider to be wrong.


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## Akasha_CN (Sep 22, 2009)

i'd like to have 2 or 3


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## Thatch (Sep 23, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Yeah, wanting a family just so you can feel happy is selfish. Being selfish is wrong. There's a difference between being selfish and being a bad parent, though. However, selfish people tend to ignore the fact that what they want may not be what's best for others. If you wanted to have a family so you can make your family members happy and raise your children to be good people, then that's not so selfish.
> 
> In my original reply to ShadowEon's post, I didn't assume she was going to be a bad parent because she didn't like kids. I don't know her at all, I have no idea how she would raise her kids. I merely proposed that she rethink her priorities and actually think about whether or not she would be a good mother, because her reasons for wanting children is what I consider to be wrong.



But why ELSE would you want to have a family, if not to fulfill your internal need of happiness? Why would you want ANYTHING if not for that, especially if it's ardous like rising kids is. Yes, you can call it selfish, but it's completely normal.
But what is you GOOD reason to you, then? And tell me at the same time why it won't be selfish AND won't bring mental harm harm to the kid.
Because, as you say it, "crafting a healthy, happy, successful new person" is pretty selfish, imo. It means that you demand things out of the kid before it's even born, despite not knowing even what traits, both physical (disabilities ect.) and mental (lazy, ect. ect.) to fulfill some vague aesthetic ideal, and on introduction tells that you plan on putting pressure to reach those goals.

And that's what I also said in my previous post, that you so easily deemed as looking me to deep into them, which in truth is you just grazing over the real problem - I said you CAN'T really craft a person. You can just set a kid on the right rails, but where will it go will depend on it's social surrounding and their inborn traits, where the first is the crucial element. 
Sure, you can have the feeling of accomplishing it, but that would be only the result of being rised in the same society, in a similar way, so it's kinda self-defining.
But that's what both experienced parents AND scientific surveys deemed as the true - a parent's influence ends when the kid enters society, at school ect. From that point on it's the kids that continue rise itself, the parent is only a sentinel. It's no news that kids often make a point of defying their parents, so I don't really know what you want to do. Unless you want to shelter them, but THAT is what would make a bad reason for having a kid, now would it?

A simple example of what I'm talking about - why do you think people laugh that say you have brilliant ideas on how to rise children and would fix all the problems in other people upringing techniques only until you actually have your own?

Just to sum this walltext up, you keep avoiding what I'm pointing at - you are arguing that there are 'good' and 'wrong' reason, while those 'reasons' for having a kid are completely, absolutely and utterly irrelevant as long as you are a responsible person, ready to face the consequences and hardships of having a kid, and adjust any views on parenting you previously had when life proves you wrong.
That's also why, imo, Shadow doesn't have to rethink anything as long as she knows what she's in for. Unless she doesn't, but then still, the best reasons will not make up for it.


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## Entropy (Sep 23, 2009)

Unless my boyfriend gets pregnant somehow I don't think I'll be having any.


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 23, 2009)

Nargle said:


> Just because a person has kids and they don't abuse/kill them doesn't mean they're good parents. And just because people have children for the wrong reasons doesn't mean they won't end up being good parents. But regardless, it's still wrong to only think about yourself when it comes to having kids. There are WAY too many bad parents, and yeah the world isn't a perfect place, but what's wrong is still wrong. People are going to just keep popping out kids and leaving them with all sorts of problems, just like people are going to keep buying puppies because they're cute and then toss them in the backyard to rot once they realize it takes effort to raise them. That doesn't mean I can't think it's wrong. Also, kids aren't as resilient as you may think. Even if the child isn't legally being neglected or abused, emotional damage can leave a horrible scar.
> 
> tl;dr, It's not all about you when it comes to having a kid. It should never be.


 
This is a really great post, Nargle. It's genuinely nice to see someone else feels the same way I do about the responsibility involved in having children.


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## Nargle (Sep 23, 2009)

szopaw said:


> But why ELSE would you want to have a family, if not to fulfill your internal need of happiness? Why would you want ANYTHING if not for that, especially if it's ardous like rising kids is. Yes, you can call it selfish, but it's completely normal.
> But what is you GOOD reason to you, then? And tell me at the same time why it won't be selfish AND won't bring mental harm harm to the kid.
> Because, as you say it, "crafting a healthy, happy, successful new person" is pretty selfish, imo. It means that you demand things out of the kid before it's even born, despite not knowing even what traits, both physical (disabilities ect.) and mental (lazy, ect. ect.) to fulfill some vague aesthetic ideal, and on introduction tells that you plan on putting pressure to reach those goals.
> 
> ...



Okay, you are making absolutely NO sense, and you're putting words in my mouth. It's getting ridiculous and I'm exhausted trying to respond to all your tangents you keep going off on. You're twisting my words and rambling about bullshit. I'm sorry you don't understand what my original post meant, but I'm tired of repeating myself, so I'm ending this conversation. If you still don't get the message I was trying to get across, then there really isn't any chance you ever will.


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## Thatch (Sep 23, 2009)

Nargle said:


> If you still don't get the message I was trying to get across, then there really isn't any chance you ever will.



Basically were saying "Sure 'bad' reasons don't make bad parents, but people with 'bad' reasons will neglect their kids", like in the post Harebelle quoted. So whatever. :V


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