# What does the J stand for in JRPG?



## Tiarhlu (Oct 24, 2008)

Because since I was little I've always called role playing games RPGs. So, where did the J come from? I'm seeing it more and more lately.


----------



## kitetsu (Oct 24, 2008)

Japanese RPG. aka Overblown excuse to hire kids and age-o-phobic twentysomethings to save the world.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 24, 2008)

JRPGs tend to have a certain feel to them that is different than most other RPGs you would play on the computer or wherever.  Compare FF6 to Pool of Radiance or NetHack or Baldur's Gate, for example.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 24, 2008)

JRPGs = generally games with animu plotline and animu artstyle with animu quirks (female-looking men, OMGKAWAII BARRELS, etc.)

Very few JRPGs actually do away with this (an example is Valkyrie Profile 2).


----------



## Xaerun (Oct 25, 2008)

It means that SEPHIROTH HAS THE BLACK MATERIA!!!


----------



## WhiteHowl (Oct 26, 2008)

Difference between western RPGs and JRPGs:
In a western RPS, the main character is a short brown haired badass (occasionally blond) who wields a sword that isn't larger than himself and has a misogynistic undertone

In JRPGs the main character is a long blond (occasionally brown haired or white) androgyne who wields a sword that seems to compensate for the lack of size of his penis, and seems like he spent way too much time listening to MCR and Linkin Park

In Western RPGs the leading lady (if there is one) is also a badass with tits the size of watermelons and has the emotional depth of a brick and possibly the intellegence of one.

In JRPGs the leading lady (there usually always is one) is either a pretty pretty lolicon with underdeveloped breasts and has the saint feeling or the staple Western RPGs archtype except asian.

In Western RPGs you go up to a monster and beat the crap out of him before he beats the crap out of you

In JRPGs you take turns to see who can pull off the earthshattering overdramatic move first.


----------



## Bokracroc (Oct 26, 2008)

The J stands for Grind.


----------



## Stratelier (Oct 26, 2008)

Yes, a Japanese RPG or JRPG is a specific style of RPG, usually referring to a combination of art style and gameplay elements that saw their heyday during the 16-bit era.

On a gameplay aspect, JRPG's typically include:
- Turn-based battles
- A separate screen used exclusively for the battles
- The battle screen pops up randomly as you walk about the field
- No visible monsters on the field (see above point)
- Game saves are limited to Inns and other designated "save points" (the latter being placed directly before a boss encounter 90% of the time)
- Sleeping at an Inn heals all status ailments including KO/death
- Speaking of death, maximum one important character ever truly dies during the course of the game

The list goes on... and on....


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 26, 2008)

ITT JRPGs that only existed in SNES and PS1


----------



## AlexX (Oct 26, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> The J stands for Grind.


No, you're thinking of the "MMO" part of MMORPGs


----------



## Digitalpotato (Oct 26, 2008)

Japanese. 


What was also excluded was that Western RPGs try to make the interface as unintuitive as possible by making you slog through about 5 menus and click through dialogue before you actually get to do something fun and watch someone's ass get handed to them.


----------



## AlexX (Oct 26, 2008)

Yeah, there's a lot of differences between the two.

Japenese RPGs: Look at your party, check enemy stats, and decide the best route to go about each combat round. For the most part you can just sell old or useless items/equipment due to an infinite item sack.

Western RPGs: Take each turn to check up on the spell or skill you're researching, and make sure all your equipment is in good shape. Check enemy abilities so that you know what they are capable of, with a guide if needed. Use proper abilities and spells to counter their abilities and spells. Be sure to set your party to "attack" and initiate the battle phase. Rinse, repeat. When restocking, be sure to get enough stuff so that you can mix some and use others as needed. Your inventory is limited based on what the class of each of your party members are due to no infinite items sack, so be sure that you toss anything you probably won't need (or can probably live without) in order to save space since at least 3 slots are taken up by plot-important items.


----------



## BloodYoshi (Oct 26, 2008)

Under those criterion, Earthbound and Mother 3 are far more western than they are Japanese. I guess I've found my preference.


----------



## AlexX (Oct 26, 2008)

ChillCoyotl said:


> Under those criterion, Earthbound and Mother 3 are far more western than they are Japanese. I guess I've found my preference.


I was mostly joking and using stuff from one of my strategy games (i.e. not an RPG but figured nobody would notice) when I made that list.


----------



## BloodYoshi (Oct 26, 2008)

Actually, I'm not sure if all these cliches are just in JRPGs, or just RPGs video games in general. >>


----------



## SirRob (Oct 26, 2008)

Stands for Jawesome. 'Cause they are.


----------



## AlexX (Oct 26, 2008)

SirRob said:


> Stands for Jawesome. 'Cause they are.


You just had to remind me of that show, didn't you?


----------



## SirRob (Oct 26, 2008)

AlexX said:


> You just had to remind me of that show, didn't you?


Four brothers that were TFed into sharks... Sounds like a jawesome show. :3


----------



## AlexX (Oct 26, 2008)

SirRob said:


> Four brothers that were TFed into sharks... Sounds like a jawesome show. :3


It's pretty much Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, except with fish instead of reptiles.


----------



## SirRob (Oct 26, 2008)

AlexX said:


> It's pretty much Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, except with fish instead of reptiles.


Yeah, it sounds like it. But humans TFing into anthros is much better than animals TFing into anthros...


----------



## Stratelier (Oct 26, 2008)

AlexX said:


> It's pretty much Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, except with fish instead of reptiles.


Could be worse, I hear Nickelodeon has a new show about three girls transformed into mermaid superheroes (and they do what? Fight crime, of course) and it's _live action_.


----------



## Tiarhlu (Oct 26, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Yes, a Japanese RPG or JRPG is a specific style of RPG, usually referring to a combination of art style and gameplay elements that saw their heyday during the 16-bit era.
> 
> On a gameplay aspect, JRPG's typically include:
> - Turn-based battles
> ...



But....but, isn't that like most every console RPG in existence? I can only think of two RPGs I've played where the battles weren't on a separate screen, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy XII. The other things are mostly universal. That's kind of what makes the genre. I'm not sure why J has to go in front of it now.


----------



## AlexX (Oct 26, 2008)

Tiarhlu said:


> But....but, isn't that like most every console RPG in existence? I can only think of two RPGs I've played where the battles weren't on a separate screen, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy XII. The other things are mostly universal. That's kind of what makes the genre. I'm not sure why J has to go in front of it now.


The "J" is what is usually used to seperate the Final Fantasy-type RPGs from the Dungeons & Dragons-type RPGs.


----------



## Inices (Oct 27, 2008)

This thread made me laugh. 

Hold on, I know I have this image lying around...

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6848/1199722570453oo0.jpg


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 27, 2008)

People need to play more Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile.


----------



## Kajet (Oct 27, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Could be worse, I hear Nickelodeon has a new show about three girls transformed into mermaid superheroes (and they do what? Fight crime, of course) and it's _live action_.



Sounds pedo-tastic...


----------



## Digitalpotato (Oct 29, 2008)

Tiarhlu said:


> But....but, isn't that like most every console RPG in existence? I can only think of two RPGs I've played where the battles weren't on a separate screen, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy XII. The other things are mostly universal. That's kind of what makes the genre. I'm not sure why J has to go in front of it now.



Japanese RPGs generally try to be about as much like Dragon Warrior and like an anime as possible, or making you fast-pace-button-mashing when it's not like that. Usually they are in Ye Olde British Isles or some kind of other settings even though we're seeing a few more modern-looking role-playing games. You also get some variety in seeing the backgrounds. 

They basically take little to no time to program compared to Western RPGs because they make you go along one path, occasionally you get a different branching path like in Tactics Ogre or different-way to play the game (Seiken Denesetsu 3 comes to mind) to add some replay value but it's mostly just guiding them. You also have to slog through unskippable cutscenes or push-to-talk dialogue to get to the good parts which are soemtimes watching overly dramatic unskippable moves or having some fun defying physics by juggling an enemy in the air with your spear. 


Whereas the Western RPGs generally try to be as much like D&D as possible by adding about ten thousand statistics that all come into play to do stuff like explore and tend to stand around The British Isles, with the occasional sci-fi lke Mass Effect and KOTOR and something that we haven't seen ten thousand and one times like Fallout 3. They also are striving for realism which is why many characters look the same and have mostly brown hair.

They're also trying to go for "Non-linearity", which in order to attain basically just means making a large world to explore, adding hundreds of sidequests to do and skills to train and most importantly giving you the option to just kill everyone in sight. You have to actually be the character and can choose to make them a bastard who kills eeryone or someone who sucks up to them and then kills everyone. 



If you ask me, I think a true non-linear game would be impossible to program or would take way too long. You'd have to not make any storyline that'd force the player down a specific path, rather add a million branches that all affect each other and add about a dozen and a half storylines. You'd probably not want to result in the world being saved in the end unless say you wanna make it so that you set up the world being taken over somehow in the process or that you ultimately take over the world which is what everyone would do since that path would pretty much just be killing people followed by more killing people. 

That'd take way too long to program and debug and design and by the time it's released it'd wind up pretty much beiing the equivalent of releasing a DOS game on today's computers.


----------



## Stratelier (Oct 29, 2008)

Digitalpotato said:


> Whereas the Western RPGs generally try to be as much like D&D as possible...


I absolutely *HATE* D&D.  I guess it's not because of the system itself, but because of the way in which it is so mindlessly cloned or imitated in so damn many US RPG's.

I agree on the non-linearity aspect:  Have you ever noticed that in just about every RPG where you get to create your own characters, the characters have basically no personality or meaningful interaction with NPC's?  Player-made player characters usually fall into that generic "hero saving the world" mold.

After all, D&D in its dead-tree incarnation is where a group of players get together, create a cast of characters and then the moderator frames a narrative around them impromptu.  Offline videogames just can't be done that way.  JRPG's more frequently are based around a central narrative (let's all admit that for the six main characters in SD3, they really only vary in their individual opening sequence, final dungeon/boss, and interaction with certain NPC's, you still visit the same dungeons and defeat the same bosses in more or less the same sequence regardless of who you chose) and the player goes along with that narrative.  They tend to be linear by their very nature, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Oct 29, 2008)

I notice that the whole "hero saving the world" done in western RPGs is generally for the same reason PC-gamers worship Gordon Freeman: because you're supposed to "Create your own personality" for the hero. Personally I felt that if I wanted to do that, I'd role-play and literally create a narrative around that person...with other people. You know, kind of like a role-playing in an MMORPG. (yes they exist now.)

But D&D being cloned...I believe JRPGs were in fact based off of D&D but they don't necessarily clone it so much like most MMORPGs and W-RPGs do. (Neverwinter nights is excluded for the sake of argument since it literally IS Based on D&D) They basically tried to go for something different...which many people seem to exclude that they add little differences in. Notice how many Square games seem to be experimenting and how Namco revamped the Linear Motion Battle System a dozen times. The Mario RPGs need no mention. (Heck I once managed to beat Cackletta with no damage)


----------



## Azure (Oct 29, 2008)

I always thought it stood for Jive, as in Jive Ass RPG.


----------



## CyberFoxx (Oct 29, 2008)

Personally, I've always seen it as this:
JRPG = Emotional storyline that attempts to draw you into it's world.
Western RPG = Action packed storyline that can be mostly forgotten because the gameplay is at least decent.

Or, in other words:
JRPG = Chick flick.
Western RPG = Guys Night Out Movie.


----------



## WhiteHowl (Oct 29, 2008)

CyberFoxx said:


> Personally, I've always seen it as this:
> JRPG = Emotional storyline that attempts to draw you into it's world.
> Western RPG = Action packed storyline that can be mostly forgotten because the gameplay is at least decent.
> 
> ...


Then you play games like Disgaea which revolves around grinding yourself to purgatory and a storyline that's composed of slapstick humor and satire, making it the cross between world of warcraft, a generic lolicon heavy visual novel, and Scary Movie which sounds like the combination of something that can potentially end the universe.

To be fair, the whole emo wrist cutting storylines that we've come to expect out of JRPGs was probably started from FF7. Most JRPGs before that had generally good storylines, and main characters that weren't completely androgynous.


----------



## CyberFoxx (Oct 29, 2008)

WhiteHowl said:


> To be fair, the whole emo wrist cutting storylines that we've come to expect out of JRPGs was probably started from FF7. Most JRPGs before that had generally good storylines, and main characters that weren't completely androgynous.



When I said emotional, I didn't mean "emo." Ever play Dragon Quest 5? Most emotional storyline in any game I've played yet. I'm not ashamed to say that I cried at a couple points.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Oct 29, 2008)

WhiteHowl said:


> To be fair, the whole emo wrist cutting storylines that we've come to expect out of JRPGs was probably started from FF7. Most JRPGs before that had generally good storylines, and main characters that weren't completely androgynous.



This brings us to the "Doom Syndrome", "The King's Quest Phenomena", "The Halo effect", "Grand Theft Auto disorder", "Sports Gameitis" and back to my point of how Western RPGs generally try to be as much like D&D as possible. 

You can trace all that "BAAAW"ey storylines back to Final Fantasy VII as the cause, just as how you can trace 90% of FPS cliches and turnoffs back to Doom and Halo, or the "Sandbox non-linear" games back to Grand Theft Auto.


----------



## WhiteHowl (Oct 30, 2008)

CyberFoxx said:


> When I said emotional, I didn't mean "emo." Ever play Dragon Quest 5? Most emotional storyline in any game I've played yet. I'm not ashamed to say that I cried at a couple points.


Sorry, I usually take everything in a cynical manner these days and I do get what you're talking about. Excuse me for thinking of the "emotional storyline" as something negative. You can sort of understand where I'm coming from right? Starting from the last 2 generations, JRPGs has had a trend of being exceptionally mediocre in terms of storyline and emotion

When we have pansies






ditzy lolicons





and generally unlikable fucks







Digitalpotato said:


> This brings us to the "Doom Syndrome", "The King's Quest Phenomena", "The Halo effect", "Grand Theft Auto disorder", "Sports Gameitis" and back to my point of how Western RPGs generally try to be as much like D&D as possible.
> 
> You can trace all that "BAAAW"ey storylines back to Final Fantasy VII as the cause, just as how you can trace 90% of FPS cliches and turnoffs back to Doom and Halo, or the "Sandbox non-linear" games back to Grand Theft Auto.


There isn't anything wrong with making certain aspects of gameplay a staple, there is something generally wrong when you make staples out of generally bad and often flawed design and mechanical choices that often lead to criticism such as above.


----------



## AlexX (Oct 30, 2008)

WhiteHowl said:


> ditzy lolicons


Colette is 16, she's too old to qualify as a "lolicon". I admit she's a rather generic character though, but at least she's better than certain... Alternatives (you know who I'm talking about... >.>).


----------



## WhiteHowl (Oct 30, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Colette is 16, she's too old to qualify as a "lolicon". I admit she's a rather generic character though, but at least she's better than certain... Alternatives (you know who I'm talking about... >.>).


Well here then :\




I'm going to regret putting Flonne in this category, because the Disgaea series in itself is a satire on mainstream JRPGs and likewise she was supposed to be the ditzy blond character... except for Evil Flonne, but shut up I'm making a point.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Oct 30, 2008)

WhiteHowl said:


> There isn't anything wrong with making certain aspects of gameplay a staple, there is something generally wrong when you make staples out of generally bad and often flawed design and mechanical choices that often lead to criticism such as above.



Yeah, there really isn't anything wrong with it unless it's something that's overly criticized such as Colette Brunels or losing EXP whenever you die. But of course like I said, you can trace so many gameplay elements to something that worked and of course...it works. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Look how many games utterly ruined the camera controls because they tried to fix something that wasn't broken. :B 


...except that for some reason, you get criticized for doing staples JUST like that staple job and at the same time if you try to do something different you get criticized because it's NOT the same staple job. (Know what I'm talking about?)


----------



## kitetsu (Oct 30, 2008)

I think it bothers me more that asking for best of both worlds (i.e. japan's not-boring-brown rule and west's no-turn-based-shit rule) seems to hugely confuse the clods who have a radically different idea of the term itself.


----------



## AlexX (Oct 30, 2008)

Digitalpotato said:


> Yeah, there really isn't anything wrong with it unless it's something that's overly criticized such as Colette Brunels or losing EXP whenever you die.


Or in some cases, NOT losing EXP when you die (i.e. "game is too lenient" complaint).

...Also, I've never heard "Colette Brunel" used in a way like that. Has the term been around for a while, or are you just calling it that because you hate Colette from ToS?



> ...except that for some reason, you get criticized for doing staples JUST like that staple job and at the same time if you try to do something different you get criticized because it's NOT the same staple job. (Know what I'm talking about?)


Like what happens with Nintendo games?


----------



## kitetsu (Oct 31, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Or in some cases, NOT losing EXP when you die (i.e. "game is too lenient" complaint).



Hey, that kinda gave me an idea.

Defeat boss with 1 death: Full experience + x1.5 bonus exp - exp lost from death

Defeat boss with 2 deaths: Full experience + x.75 bonus exp - exp lost from death

Defeat boss with 3 deaths: Full experience + x.50 bonus exp - exp lost from death

Defeat boss with 4 or more deaths: Full experience - exp lost from death

Defeat boss with no deaths: Full experience + (x2 bonus exp X difficulty level)


----------



## WhiteHowl (Nov 1, 2008)

Digitalpotato said:


> Yeah, there really isn't anything wrong with it unless it's something that's overly criticized such as Colette Brunels or losing EXP whenever you die. But of course like I said, you can trace so many gameplay elements to something that worked and of course...it works. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Look how many games utterly ruined the camera controls because they tried to fix something that wasn't broken. :B
> 
> 
> ...except that for some reason, you get criticized for doing staples JUST like that staple job and at the same time if you try to do something different you get criticized because it's NOT the same staple job. (Know what I'm talking about?)


I was trying to move away from Final Fantasy for the ditzy blond stereotype, because it would seem way too redundant. Ironically I liked Collette mainly because her character meshed well with the other good stereotypical heroes in symphonia.

I get what you mean though on the criticism. You have TWEWY that had the irritating main characters (except for Joshua ) but everyone else meshed well on top of having an original feel and style that was much different, yet very samey as well.

I think it's being able to blend it together, but for some reason JRPGs developers, and writers can't avoid creating irritating level designs and character.



kitetsu said:


> I think it bothers me more that asking for best of both worlds (i.e. japan's not-boring-brown rule and west's no-turn-based-shit rule) seems to hugely confuse the clods who have a radically different idea of the term itself.


People who play JRPGs generally are boring and/or stupid and stupid otakus who like the colorful, acid driven aesthetics, but typically come out as gay to westerners.

People who play WRPGs are typically macho and like to beat the shit out of goblins and dragons and things that would rip your face off, but typically come out as mindless and violent to easterners.

You can await once in blue moon for games like this, but you'll probably be deeply disappointed that they almost never appear then :\


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 1, 2008)

Let me just enjoy Valkyrie Profile 2, the best JRPG (or even RPG) that has been created solely because it has the best battle system ever. It punishes those who doesn't know how to use the system and rewards those who does.


----------



## AlexX (Nov 1, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Let me just enjoy Valkyrie Profile 2, the best JRPG (or even RPG) that has been created solely because it has the best battle system ever. It punishes those who doesn't know how to use the system and rewards those who does.


Sonic Chronicles is the same... >.> If you can't do the stylus motions you're going to get your ass kicked, but if you can you'll have a much easier time (heck, it even ranks you on how well you do them).


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 1, 2008)

Eh, using the stylus as a command is really iffy, especially if it's very reliant on it. *cough Star Fox Command cough*


----------



## AlexX (Nov 1, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Eh, using the stylus as a command is really iffy, especially if it's very reliant on it. *cough Star Fox Command cough*


God FORBID they try to do something DIFFERENT... >.>

It's still the same. Skill and strategy matter most in the game, which is what should matter in an RPG.


----------



## Zanzer (Nov 1, 2008)

D: What About "The World End With You" Thats a awesome JRPG. very orignal but still with most of the Genric JRPG sterotypes.
Really thin kids.
Wacky hairstyles and clothing.

Butttt a way cool battlestyle comapred to turned based. and a good story.


----------



## AlexX (Nov 1, 2008)

Wasn't the official art for World Ends With You decided by a contest at Deviantart? I seem to recall something like that, but maybe it was a different game...


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 2, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2CIKMGlpws&fmt=18


----------



## WhiteHowl (Nov 2, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Wasn't the official art for World Ends With You decided by a contest at Deviantart? I seem to recall something like that, but maybe it was a different game...


They had a contest where you created your own character for the game. The winner got a copy of TWEWY, which at the time was already released... in the PAL regions.


----------



## BloodYoshi (Nov 2, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Eh, using the stylus as a command is really iffy, especially if it's very reliant on it. *cough Star Fox Command cough*



I still say anyone who couldn't adapt to the control schemes of Starfox Command and Metroid Prime Hunters were uncoordinated tards. It really wasn't that hard.


----------



## AlexX (Nov 2, 2008)

ChillCoyotl said:


> I still say anyone who couldn't adapt to the control schemes of Starfox Command and Metroid Prime Hunters were uncoordinated tards. It really wasn't that hard.


Couldn't have said it better, myself.


----------



## Bokracroc (Nov 2, 2008)

Prime Hunters cramps my hand but yeah, it was usable. It was pretty cool that they managed to pump out that on it.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Nov 3, 2008)

AlexX said:


> ...Also, I've never heard "Colette Brunel" used in a way like that. Has the term been around for a while, or are you just calling it that because you hate Colette from ToS?



Well do you think the term Shana would work better? Shana is also a sterotypical defenseless-love-interest-Royalty-chosen-one-who-uses-light-and/or-healing-magic-you-have-to-rescue-all-the-time (but then again so is Peach cept Peach actually defies that role sometimes...) 



			
				WhiteHowl said:
			
		

> People who play JRPGs generally are *boring and/or stupid and stupid otakus* who like the colorful, acid driven aesthetics, but typically come out as gay to westerners.



Your post lost all validity after the stereotypical comment, despite how homophobic westerners see Japanese-things.(Face it...Everything outside of Japan is VERY homophobic)


----------



## DragonRift (Nov 3, 2008)

WhiteHowl said:


> People who play JRPGs generally are boring and/or stupid and stupid otakus who like the colorful, acid driven aesthetics, but typically come out as gay to westerners.



Okay, THAT stereotypical remark is like saying people who play *Halo 3* online are all whiny, foul-mouthed eight-year-old kids.

Give me a break.  Did you play any OUTSIDE of Tetsuya Nomura's atrocious *Final Fantasy* entries?  I know his art style is sickeningly metrosexual, and his obsession with chains, spiky/wavy hair and oversized weapons makes me want to beat him over the head with a sackful of kittens.  But what about classics from the SNES/Genesis days like *Phantasy Star* and *Chrono Trigger*?  Hell, even *Final Fantasy XII* had a very dark, political tone to its story.

JRPGs are simple, and easy for anyone to pick up.  They generally have lengthy stories with lots of characters, and usually follow a linear path from beginning to end...  with the occasional side-quest here and there.  Battles are mostly turn-based, and follow a very simple routine that's a snap to learn.  They're relaxing to play, plain and simple.  THAT'S why people play JRPGs.

Western RPGs are pretty much the opposite, with wide-open environments and different story paths that branch out in certain directions, depending on the one you choose.  Battles are often real-time, and try to offer more action, much like a third-person shooter or fighter.  The drawback with those is that many of them offer very little story, and are robust with extra quests galore.... like *Mass Effect*.

You can't breeze through a JRPG in a weekend, but you CAN with a WRPG.


----------



## AlexX (Nov 3, 2008)

Digitalpotato said:


> Well do you think the term Shana would work better? Shana is also a sterotypical defenseless-love-interest-Royalty-chosen-one-who-uses-light-and/or-healing-magic-you-have-to-rescue-all-the-time (but then again so is Peach cept Peach actually defies that role sometimes...)


Merle from Chrono Trigger probably fits the stereotype better since she's actually royalty and uses healing magic.

Though while we're at it, while it's traditional the first female party member is primarily a healer, I don't see why you include the "or just light magic" part for that stereotype. I can see the "and" part working since light magic and healing tend to go hand-in-hand, but it's rather unusual for a light-user to not have any sort of healing magic.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Nov 3, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Merle from Chrono Trigger probably fits the stereotype better since she's actually royalty and uses healing magic.
> 
> Though while we're at it, while it's traditional the first female party member is primarily a healer, I don't see why you include the "or just light magic" part for that stereotype. I can see the "and" part working since light magic and healing tend to go hand-in-hand, but it's rather unusual for a light-user to not have any sort of healing magic.



1) Nah, Marle isn't UTTERLY defenseless or a chosen one. >.> And shana's royalty...it's like revealed in the 2nd-3rd disk. 

2) Agreed, we need to see more light-users that are smiting, and not JUST to undead.


----------



## WhiteHowl (Nov 3, 2008)

DragonRift said:


> Okay, THAT stereotypical remark is like saying people who play *Halo 3* online are all whiny, foul-mouthed eight-year-old kids.
> 
> Give me a break.  Did you play any OUTSIDE of Tetsuya Nomura's atrocious *Final Fantasy* entries? I know his art style is sickeningly metrosexual, and his obsession with chains, spiky/wavy hair and oversized weapons makes me want to beat him over the head with a sackful of kittens. But what about classics from the SNES/Genesis days like *Phantasy Star* and *Chrono Trigger*?  Hell, even *Final Fantasy XII* had a very dark, political tone to its story.
> 
> ...


Amano is also guilty of making extremely effeminate character models as the main as well, but I overlook that because his watercolor art is exceptionally beautiful, and the characters themselves are a lot easier to take than "I am a total badass, here is my giant sword, please die while I hack/slash and whine you to death"

No what I'm saying is that people who play JRPGs excessively are those basement dwelling otakus (looks at self) and when I meant "but typically come out as gay to westerners" I meant the acid driven asethetic, and to be fair considering that most of the JRPGs nowadays have yet to break this terrible stereotype (Tales of Vesperia, Persona 3 & 4, Yggdra Union)

And I never really considered FFXII a real Final Fantasy in terms of what it covers. I like to think of it more as an Ivalice game, which in that regard makes the premise of playing it twice as good.



AlexX said:


> Merle from Chrono Trigger probably fits the stereotype better since she's actually royalty and uses healing magic.
> 
> Though while we're at it, while it's traditional the first female party member is primarily a healer, I don't see why you include the "or just light magic" part for that stereotype. I can see the "and" part working since light magic and healing tend to go hand-in-hand, but it's rather unusual for a light-user to not have any sort of healing magic.


Breath of Fire III is much appreciated in that regard, for having the main character Ryu using destructive Dragon Transformations and supportive healing, while Nina being a lot less ditzy, towards the second half, and more of a stereotypical animu lolicon in the first half, but wielding instead destructive black magic... in a pink dress.

Also to add on Breath of Fire III and IV had that option of a controlled leveling system, something which works and is highly underused outside of tactical JRPGs, which is odd to say the least.


----------



## BloodYoshi (Nov 3, 2008)

Will you guys just shut the hell up?


----------



## DragonRift (Nov 4, 2008)

ChillCoyotl said:


> Will you guys just shut the hell up?



Dude... Have a bowl of ice cream, and chill.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Nov 4, 2008)

WhiteHowl said:


> Amano is also guilty of making extremely effeminate character models as the main as well, but I overlook that because his watercolor art is exceptionally beautiful
> 
> No what I'm saying is that people who play JRPGs *excessively* are those basement dwelling otakus (looks at self) and when I meant "but typically come out as gay to westerners" I meant the acid driven asethetic, and to be fair considering that most of the JRPGs nowadays have yet to break this terrible stereotype (Tales of Vesperia, Persona 3 & 4, Yggdra Union)
> .




1) FINALLY, I'm not the ONLY person who realizes that Amano's white-haired-heroes with blue-lipstick aren't that much better than Nomura's characers. Everyone else seems to pretty much ignore that his characters are wearing lipstick because it's watercolour and therefore they worship his art like it was made from the blood of Jesus Christ. I admit watercolours are hard to use the way he does, and his artwork for the Sandman is beautiful, but come on....at least ACKNOWLEDGE that his characters are wearing lipstick, and that his heroes all follow the same design. (Frizzy white hair, pale skin, blue lipstick) 

2) You should have said that in the first place.  But that's just about everyone except that instead of otakus they're others.


----------

