# The Existence of God.



## Tamok123 (Apr 19, 2010)

hhh


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## Viva (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

Haven't done it, won't do it :3

also, this belongs in The Den...I think.  But I guess not, after reading it


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## HotRodLincoln (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

I believe in the Lord God, Jesus Christ, I am a strong Methodist, and I always will be.
I pray every night for my unsaved friends, but I am not one of the Christians who will force The Bible down your throat


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



HotRodLincoln said:


> I believe in the Lord God, Jesus Christ, I am a strong Methodist, and I always will be.
> I pray every night for my unsaved friends, but I am not one of the Christians who will force The Bible down your throat



That's sweet.

Out of interest, what is this praying meant to do? Are you telling God to change someone's free will?


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## Shaui (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



HotRodLincoln said:


> I believe in the Lord God, Jesus Christ, I am a strong Methodist, and I always will be.
> I pray every night for my unsaved friends, but I am not one of the Christians who will force The Bible down your throat



Amen.


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## Tigeriss_Lord (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

Im not a religious being myself...never have been, never will be, but that title was an interesting hook to pull people over to reading this...lol


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Tigeriss_Lord said:


> Im not a religious being myself...never have been, never will be, but that title was an interesting hook to pull people over to reading this...lol



It's misleading and has filled me with rage.


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## Shaui (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

I believe in God because he's the only way to be saved.

Yea, I said it, whether you atheists like it or not.


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Shaui said:


> I believe in God because he's the only way to be saved.
> 
> Yea, I said it, whether you atheists like it or not.



_Which _god?

Says who?

Saved from what/whom? This god, perhaps?


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## Shaui (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

To clarify, the Christian God/Jesus, not Lord Xenu or that Tom Cruise bullshit.


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Shaui said:


> To clarify, the Christian God/Jesus, not Lord Xenu or that Tom Cruise bullshit.



To them your religion is equally as bullshit.
IMAGINE THAT.
:U

How do you know this god is the only way to be "saved"?
Because the Bible says so?
The Qu'ran says the exact same things.
If you read the Qu'ran first, maybe you'd think Allah is the only way to be saved. People live their entire lives worshipping him.


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## Browder (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

Everyone's god is real from their respective point of view and should be treated as such. Religion is in the heart.


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## HotRodLincoln (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Harebelle said:


> That's sweet.
> 
> Out of interest, what is this praying meant to do? Are you telling God to change someone's free will?



I don't pray to force this to happen, I pray for a situation to come up that may point them towards Christ


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## Browder (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*

I wonder sometimes if I should start a group dedicated to researching and searching for religions that best fit their ideals and world views. The principle mission of the group would not to preach, or even to teach, but to learn from as many different sources as possible. Once a member feels moved to pursue his or her own path than he or she would join his or her chosen religion and leave the group behind.


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## Ilayas (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Harebelle said:


> To them your religion is equally as bullshit.
> IMAGINE THAT.
> :U
> 
> ...



Don't all Abrahamic faiths worship the same God?


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## Marietta (Apr 19, 2010)

> Why or why not do you beleive in God, or a form of Diety?


Because I choose to.
I simply feel that what I believe is correct.

I was raised that way mostly. But for a while I stopped believing. I still went to church because it made my mom happy but...
I started feeling miserable and more miserable until someone made me feel otherwise and he is a strong believer in God.
He really helped me, even if he doesn't realize it. That's why I started believing again.


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## Attaman (Apr 19, 2010)

I don't believe for certain in any gods, because I haven't been given good enough proof.  Hence my Agnostic leaning towards Atheism mindset.

I am of the belief that, if any gods exist and are akin / belonging to any current religion or many past religions, then the majority of them are dicks and thus my Misotheism.


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## Unsilenced (Apr 19, 2010)

LizardKing said:


> Cue another 20 pages of religious wankshittery



Aye. Also, nice comboswear. +5 


Anyways: I don't believe in god(s) because I have yet to see evidence of it/them. For those that think that "lack of evidence is not evidence of lack," may I direct you to the church of pastifarianisim.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 19, 2010)

No evidence that cannot be applied to any randomly created god whose dictates are made from a D20.

Just.. no evidence.

It'd be handy to have a God.  It'd be nice if things made sense to that perfect level.

But without evidence, it's just a nice thought.  And faith?  Well, the worst people in the world who do the most heinous things in their god's name tend to have faith too.  

There's just no evidence.


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## Corto (Apr 19, 2010)

Ok, let's try to have a serious discussion here. The question was simple enough: do you believe in a god or follow a religion? If so, why? If not, why? People that derail this any more will be dealt with. Harshly.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 19, 2010)

I do not know if gods exist or not, but warshipping the ideals they cast is a reasonable thing to do,


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## Corto (Apr 19, 2010)

Also, next fucker to post "OMG this kinda threads always go to shit so I'll start it by being OH SO RANDOM LOL AIDS" gets a week long vacation from the forum. Maybe if you people didn't act like morons these threads would work. There's no magical power to turn serious threads into flamewars, it's you that make it happen. 

On topic, I'm a Christian, though I don't follow any specific sub-religion, such as Catholicism. I just know I believe in God and in Jesus and have had experiences to confirm my belief and that's all I need to know.


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## Zrcalo (Apr 19, 2010)

Corto said:


> Also, next fucker to post "OMG this kinda threads always go to shit so I'll start it by being OH SO RANDOM LOL AIDS" gets a week long vacation from the forum. Maybe if you people didn't act like morons these threads would work. There's no magical power to turn serious threads into flamewars, it's you that make it happen.
> 
> On topic, I'm a Christian, though I don't follow any specific sub-religion, such as Catholicism. I just know I believe in God and in Jesus and have had experiences to confirm my belief and that's all I need to know.



wow corto... way to bring down the B& hammer..
*recieves warning*




anyway..

god talks to me. he said it's okay to be gay and that he'd pay for my college.


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## Corto (Apr 19, 2010)

I don't want to lock this thread, so try to post only SERIOUS or, if that's too hard for you, at least some NOT COMPLETELY RETARDED replies. If it becomes too derailed I'll lock the thread but the user that forces me to do so gets a nice temp ban, no warnings or infraction willy-nilly shit.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm actually quite impressed. 

But for me I think faith is a set of Ideals you embrace, be there a deity watching over those ideals or not really does not matter.


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## Spawtsie Paws (Apr 19, 2010)

I believe there is a higher power, but nothing that we could imagine. Mankind has perverted the concept of a God for there to be anything reasonable.


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## Zrcalo (Apr 19, 2010)

Corto said:


> I don't want to lock this thread, so try to post only SERIOUS or, if that's too hard for you, at least some *NOT COMPLETELY RETARDED replies*. If it becomes too derailed I'll lock the thread but the user that forces me to do so gets a nice temp ban, no warnings or infraction willy-nilly shit.



hrm... so we have to feign intelligence or we'll be banned. 

Long story short, I'm christian and I also believe in reincarnation.

what's interesting is christianity states that in order to get to heaven we have to believe in jesus. 

well if jesus is god, then cant we just believe in god?

also, if there's jesus, god, and the holy spirit and they're all equally god, cant we get to heaven by believing in them also?

I find it hard to believe that jesus should be put before god. I mean, they're equal but it just sounds wrong to me.


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## Captain Howdy (Apr 19, 2010)

I wasn't raised religious,  so i had no religious start. I finally studied in school and did not understand it, how someone can believe in something that has no proof, and applies logic you only find in religion, that is, not requiring proof. And in not many other areas of thought does this occur. 

If its inherently not provable, and/or has no evidence at all (meaning not just immediate proof, but any proof at all), then I simply don't believe it. I may think about it, but that's about it.


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## Spawtsie Paws (Apr 19, 2010)

Lastdirewolf said:


> I wasn't raised religious,  so i had no religious start. I finally studied in school and did not understand it, how someone can believe in something that has no proof, and applies logic you only find in religion, that is, not requiring proof. And in not many other areas of thought does this occur.
> 
> If its inherently not provable, and/or has no evidence at all (meaning not just immediate proof, but any proof at all), then I simply don't believe it. I may think about it, but that's about it.



They want you to believe in the supernatural and screw science. This lets them keep a tighter grip on what you believe and how you behave.


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

I am Christian but also believe in Native American religion.

I have a few critiques for both Christians, people of other religions and atheists.

*The first is for Christians*: A lot make the mistake of talking as if their religion was the only valid religion out there, without even investigating more on the other religions. I think one of the worst things Christians do which at times makes me facepalm is when they start going aggressive: "Believe in God or you'll go to hell! You need to save yourself." and using these threats as if they're going to bring people in, they might but usually result in a disliking for a religion that seemingly only teaches hate and judgement. Have we forgotten that God is about love, compassion, and peace? Have we forgotten that we are ALL God's children, that others don't stop being brothers just because we don't like them for "x" reasons? Lastly, Christians need to stop playing the "sin" card, where we are passing by telling people "You're sinful for not going to church, or for being a non believer, or for being gay, etc etc etc." Do not forget what Jesus tells us:

"Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone." John 8:7

Being Christian is not just about believing in God nor just going to church. That is not enough. We have to display the love the lord teaches us to have, that will show people what being Christian is really about.


*To those who are not Christian*: I am sure at times many have given you plenty of reason not to like Christianity, whether it be judgement by a Christian, a heated religious argument or some other unfortunate event. It is true, in church people tend to retain "the bad things" and think that because they are Christian they can pass judgement. Well, they should not be. All I would ask if you is that you dismiss them, they unfortunately do not know what they do, they at times can give an unfairly harsh appearance to our religion. I can assure you, our religion is not about judgement nor hate, it IS about love, that is what I love about Christianity. There is so much to learn about how to live such a great life. In conclusion, give Christianity a chance, even if you don't join, at least don't let a few odd people make you think it is such a terrible thing. Don't fall into their cheap traps where they just want you to get mad. Don't be judgemental yourself, because then you are doing the exact same thing you criticize them for. It is best not to lower yourself to their level anyway.

God Bless everyone! I think I have said everything I wanted to say.
​


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> I am Christian but also believe in Native American religion.
> 
> I have a few critiques for both Christians, people of other religions and atheists.
> 
> ...



But what if you aren't a christian because that's the faith that doesn't sit with your personal ethics and moral viewpoints?  What if you were raised Jewish or Hindu and don't want to convert, and ou could care less about what Christianity is about?

Me, I left the church and yeah I had some bad experiences, but when I became Pagan it felt like the pieces finally fell into place.  I feel much more satisfaction in my chosen faith then I did in the religion I grew up with.  And I know a lot of christians who are wonderful people.  I actually volenteer in my parent's church library as their computer technician and assistant librarian, and I enjoy my time there.  As I've said before, most roads lead to the same destination, and one is no better then the other. *S*


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> But what if you aren't a christian because that's the faith that doesn't sit with your personal ethics and moral viewpoints?  What if you were raised Jewish or Hindu and don't want to convert, and ou could care less about what Christianity is about?
> 
> Me, I left the church and yeah I had some bad experiences, but when I became Pagan it felt like the pieces finally fell into place.  I feel much more satisfaction in my chosen faith then I did in the religion I grew up with.  And I know a lot of christians who are wonderful people.  I actually volenteer in my parent's church library as their computer technician and assistant librarian, and I enjoy my time there.  As I've said before, most roads lead to the same destination, and one is no better then the other. *S*



Well that is what I said (or at least I'm pretty sure I did) in my post, if you don't want to follow it, it is fine, but just don't let a couple of judgers lead you to believe its bad. Like I said, I also believe strongly in Indian (Native American) religions in addition to being Christian. I couldn't agree more with your last statement that the roads all lead to the same destination. We just need to be sure to stay on that road, whether Christian or non Christian.


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree.  But you have to admit that judgers, haters, and general douchebaggery is going to turn people off of a particular religion.  Take your arguement for giving Christianity a chance, and replace 'Christianity' with 'Scientology'.  I assure you not as many people would agree with your statement. *S*


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## Browder (Apr 20, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> Well that is what I said (or at least I'm pretty sure I did) in my post, if you don't want to follow it, it is fine, but just don't let a couple of judgers lead you to believe its bad. Like I said, *I also believe strongly in Indian (Native American) religions* in addition to being Christian. I couldn't agree more with your last statement that the roads all lead to the same destination. We just need to be sure to stay on that road, whether Christian or non Christian.



Which ones? There are a shitload.

To list a few tribes:
Oneida
Algonquin
Cherokee
Hopi
Blackfoot
Lakota
Apache
Mohawk
Chickasaw
Choctaw
...and more.


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## Jelly (Apr 20, 2010)

god is basically a subontic not-self
which is to say how you understand the concept of not-self
not-self being something applicable to most things and reality
however, it becomes a lot more difficult to determine self from not-self when you're amidst the peeling back of layers of consciousness

then it just turns into a big fucking mess

i think that point at which all those concepts begin to blur and turn into urgent babbling ecstasies - that center in the tunnel of consciousness, indicative of a calming and piercing unification
like it or not, is god (if we unpack the basic, ground-level notions of all gods and sacred existence)
it is also something that is not "you" or "yourself" in the most classic personification of yourself, its beyond the character petrified by language, and deeper into a spiderweb of parapersonal connectivity

the concept of God as some guy who fuddles around slowly setting forward clocks and caring from something forgettable is how we summarize the profane nature of time and categorization

as useful as personification is (and as closely as it pierces self and not-self dichotomies), its ultimately a focal delusion
which is why monotheism and polytheism have difficulty getting along mystically
and atheists can't really understand the motivations of either

but that isn't to say they can't
rational repurposing of mountains of mythological shit into steps on a ladder can let you climb higher
instead of seeming distant and unrelatable

there needs to be more open dialog on things like this, and though i agree that language petrifies, stagnates and obfuscates the personal experience - we can still attempt to relate these experiences within reasonable terms

satori being the best way to demonstrate the state
but lucidity in the experience and committing to memory the most complete picture you can does permit a slight increase in transmission

so
whatever

But I suppose that's just me and a lot of bums, burnouts, and dropouts.
(which isn't to say I'm not one or all of those things

dsjgdkjngk)


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> I agree.  But you have to admit that judgers, haters, and general douchebaggery is going to turn people off of a particular religion.  Take your arguement for giving Christianity a chance, and replace 'Christianity' with 'Scientology'.  I assure you not as many people would agree with your statement. *S*



I don't know much about scientology, but I would have to be open to it; I know someone who is into that also, never really thought to ask him more about it though I might. One should give all people a chance, regardless of what their background is anyway.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 20, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> I agree.  But you have to admit that judgers, haters, and general douchebaggery is going to turn people off of a particular religion.  Take your arguement for giving Christianity a chance, and replace 'Christianity' with 'Scientology'.  I assure you not as many people would agree with your statement. *S*


Christianity can be interpreted in many open ended ways many positive.
Scientology is more ridged, and insane. A cult really.


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## Kommodore (Apr 20, 2010)

Tamok123 said:


> Followed by debates I have had with multiple people who actually know what they are talking about.



I'd like to know who these people who "know what they are talking about" with respect to God are. 

Coz I mean, how does one person know more about the existence of God than another person?


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> Which ones? There are a shitload.
> 
> To list a few tribes:
> Oneida
> ...



You don't have to lecture me about my own culture.  I have learned from a number of tribes, most of it I learned from my grandfather who taught it to me. We are of the Tepehuan tribe. I didn't mention a tribe for the reason that what he teaches me is not exclusive to our tribe.


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> Which ones? There are a shitload.
> 
> To list a few tribes:
> Oneida
> ...



Sioux
Haida
Innu
... 

And what branch of Christianity do you practice?
Lutheran
Unitarian
Protestant
7th Day Adventist
Baptist
Roman Catholic
Anglican
Episcopalian
etc...

The combo would be really telling on your worldview and ethics *S*


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> You don't have to lecture me about my own culture.  I have learned from a number of tribes, most of it I learned from my grandfather who taught it to me.* We are of the Tepehuan tribe*. I didn't mention a tribe for the reason that what he teaches me is not exclusive to our tribe.



Huh...cool!  North Mexico, eh?


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> Huh...cool!  North Mexico, eh?


Yes I am glad someone knows  since its a lesser known tribe that some people have never heard of. I don't blame them, we aren't particularly well known.


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## Browder (Apr 20, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> You don't have to lecture me about my own culture.  I have learned from a number of tribes, most of it I learned from my grandfather who taught it to me. We are of the Tepehuan tribe. I didn't mention a tribe for the reason that what he teaches me is not exclusive to our tribe.



Who's lecturing? Asking gets the job done faster. And I have no doubt that your  God, Gods, beliefs are real from your respective viewpoint.


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> Who's lecturing? Asking gets the job done faster. And I have no doubt that your  God, Gods, beliefs are real from your respective viewpoint.


Yeah maybe lecturing wasn't the correct choice of words, my apologies for sounding aggressive.


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## Icky (Apr 20, 2010)

Hey guys. I just had a _thought_.

What if God was real.

And he was gay.


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> Yes I am glad someone knows  since its a lesser known tribe that some people have never heard of. I don't blame them, we aren't particularly well known.



Wikipedia, man.  I believe in researching what I'm not familiar with :grin:.  In quebec there's a tribe who's numbers are dwindling.  Their language is dying since it is not being passed on, and it's beautiful  

[yt]MyQhoLwrKk8[/yt]

So I am quite curious how the belief of animism that's a part of Tepehuan belifs is blended with the monotheistic nature of Christianity (trinity aside, of course *S*)


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## Browder (Apr 20, 2010)

Icarus615 said:


> Hey guys. I just had a _thought_.
> 
> What if God was real.
> 
> And he was gay.



Who would have sex with him? Divine jizz probably would smite us lesser mortals.


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## Captain Howdy (Apr 20, 2010)

With religon, it lies in those few oddballs, they create the image, and create the masses. I'd have no problem letting religions have their fun, but some of the people in those religions hurt others, held back scientific discovery,  so on and so forth. I dont care about the passive religious person, its the 'bad apple' that leads to harm. Both physically, mentally, and socially.


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> Who would have sex with him? Divine jizz probably would smite us lesser mortals.



Well...if by God you mean Zeus, mortal females did seem to survive...until Hera found out about it and got really jealous of all of her husband's bastards running around.


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## Icky (Apr 20, 2010)

Browder said:


> Who would have sex with him? Divine jizz probably would smite us lesser mortals.



I was just wondering how all the Christian homophobes out there would react.


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## Tokalu (Apr 20, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> Wikipedia, man.  I believe in researching what I'm not familiar with :grin:.  In quebec there's a tribe who's numbers are dwindling.  Their language is dying since it is not being passed on, and it's beautiful
> 
> [yt]MyQhoLwrKk8[/yt]
> 
> So I am quite curious how the belief of animism that's a part of Tepehuan belifs is blended with the monotheistic nature of Christianity (trinity aside, of course *S*)



It happens because I am really flexible with my beliefs (even though that may seem like an oxymoron since I believe so strongly in God or a god whichever you want to call it). I believe in God, while I also believe in the spirituality and life (life as in as real as the one we have) of nature around us. If you want me to elaborate further I could do it in a PM, I don't want to throw this topic off too much even though its not uncommon around here; but I don't expect myself to give too much solid concrete facts, religion is subject to a lot of different interpretations, and mine can turn out to be very vague and maybe confusing.


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## Lobar (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



HotRodLincoln said:


> I don't pray to force this to happen, I pray for a situation to come up that may point them towards Christ



Maybe pray up some evidence then.


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## Nylak (Apr 20, 2010)

I've been instructed by Corto to police this thread and make sure no one makes any more retarded comments.

So stop it. >_>  You know who you are.


On topic: I don't believe in a god; though I am still very religious, I'm just atheist. Whoo. I...don't have anything constructive to say. T_T


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## Browder (Apr 20, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> Well...if by God you mean Zeus, mortal females did seem to survive...until Hera found out about it and got really jealous of all of her husband's bastards running around.


Dear lord I love Greek Mythology.



Icarus615 said:


> I was just wondering how all the Christian homophobes out there would react.



And I used it as an opportunity for a 'what if' game. I tend to do that.

Personally I think he was Lucifer's lover and the war in heaven was just a really, really, really bad break-up.

EDIT


Nylak said:


> I've been instructed by Corto to police this thread and make sure no one makes any more retarded comments.
> 
> So stop it. >_>  You know who you are.
> 
> ...




Oh shit. I was ninja'd. Please have mercy on me.


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## CAThulu (Apr 20, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> It happens because I am really flexible with my beliefs (even though that may seem like an oxymoron since I believe so strongly in God or a god whichever you want to call it). I believe in God, while I also believe in the spirituality and life (life as in as real as the one we have) of nature around us. If you want me to elaborate further I could do it in a PM, I don't want to throw this topic off too much even though its not uncommon around here; but I don't expect myself to give too much solid concrete facts, religion is subject to a lot of different interpretations, and mine can turn out to be very vague and maybe confusing.



No, that's alright *G*.   I think you and I are on the same page here actually.  There's God, the Creator, and all things underneath the Diety.  It's very similar to what I follow actually *S*.   But for me I was raised that Christianity shouldn't be mixed with anything else, so I couldn't do what you're doing now in good conscience.  I'd feel like a hypocrite (and I'm NOT saying that you are, btw.  It's just how I would feel and that's my issue *S*)

I think that's fantastic, and as long as people keep their oppinions to themselves that's a great path to choose *G*.   I'm glad you can connect to God that strongly without having to give away your heritage.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Apr 20, 2010)

> This message has been deleted by Corto. 			Reason: _Stay on topic, god fucking dammit_



I think I know why I still log in.


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## Telnac (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



HotRodLincoln said:


> I believe in the Lord God, Jesus Christ, I am a strong Methodist, and I always will be.
> I pray every night for my unsaved friends, but I am not one of the Christians who will force The Bible down your throat


Aside from not being a Methodist, pretty much this.

As for why, well....
http://www.illogica.org/azpod/testimony.html


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## GoldenJackal (Apr 20, 2010)

I believe that there is some force behind the Universe and everything in  it that has been called by many names by many civilizations around the  world. I am a Solitary  Eclectic Non-Denominational Pagan which pretty much means that I observe and believe in pagan ideology and traditions but do not associate myself with any one doctrine. I also do not worship any deity but have a general respect for driving forces within nature.


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## Stargazer Bleu (Apr 20, 2010)

Tamok123 said:


> If these people read the Bible, they'd see it wasn't all candy and lollipops, city of Sodom comes to mind, and, you know, the whole flooding the Earth and killing everyone thing too.


 
Reading the Book of Revelation also shows this. This book style changes a lot over all the others.

I do have some religious beliefs. I dont mind talking about it to ppl who will talk civilized about it.

I dont try to make ppl belive the way i do, but will share how i do belive if someone ask. 
I also often like listening to other ppl views on what they believe. As long as one dosent try to argue that his beliefs the only truth. I even dont know what is the complete truth. I just like hearing others point of views.

I guess the way i believe is just the way i grew up.  Like 90% of my family are strongly christain.  
Sometimes i dont know what to believe really. With all kinds of religions it hard to know what is the truth.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 20, 2010)

Tamok123 said:


> Now that I have you in a "OH MY GOD I'M GOING TO FUCKING STAB HIM IN THE EYE" mindset, let's talk about contreversial things!
> 
> Why or why not do you beleive in God, or a form of Diety?
> 
> ...



There is (or was) a religious thread already on here.


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## Maxwell (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



HotRodLincoln said:


> I don't pray to force this to happen, I pray for a situation to come up that may point them towards Christ



So your praying that a bad thing happens to them so that will turn to you and then to the christian god for reassurance... When there are many other deities out there that could just as easily answer the call.

As for my religion, I don't have one, I'm an atheist by choice, though spiritual in a sort of physicsy sense. My parents are agnostic, but exposed me to as much as they possibly could, I attended both catholic and anglican churches, was taken to mosque, synagogue and a budhist temple. I have to say I really enjoyed conversing with (and still do) the various ministers/priests/monks. Though budhists are the coolest because they get awesome robes.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Maxwell said:


> So your praying that a bad thing happens to them so that will turn to you and then to the christian god for reassurance... When there are many other deities out there that could just as easily answer the call.
> 
> As for my religion, I'm an atheist by choice, though spiritual in a sort of physicsy sense. My parents are agnostic, but exposed me to as much as they possibly could, I attended both catholic and anglican churches, was taken to mosque, synagogue and a budhist temple. I have to say I really enjoyed conversing with (and still do) the various ministers/priests/monks. Though budhists are the coolest because they get awesome robes.



I still don't see Atheism as a religion.


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## Maxwell (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



RandyDarkshade said:


> I still don't see Atheism as a religion.


Neither do I. Edited.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 20, 2010)

I have a friend who does that "praying that something happens to me so I need God again"  shit.  

Well, had a friend.

I don't keep friends that want bad stuff to happen to their friends so they can prove a point.  That's a shitty friend.


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## Shaui (Apr 20, 2010)

Corto said:


> I don't want to lock this thread, so try to post only SERIOUS or, if that's too hard for you, at least some NOT COMPLETELY RETARDED replies. If it becomes too derailed I'll lock the thread but the user that forces me to do so gets a nice temp ban, no warnings or infraction willy-nilly shit.



Thank you for cutting out the bullshit in this thread: seriously, I'd like to see a religion thread with some serious posts, whether the post comes from a theist or atheist, doesn't matter.
I ought to be more serious sometimes


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## Shaui (Apr 20, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> I have a friend who does that "praying that something happens to me so I need God again"  shit.
> 
> Well, had a friend.
> 
> I don't keep friends that want bad stuff to happen to their friends so they can prove a point.  That's a shitty friend.



WWJD is the question.
Jesus would pray for one's health and well-being. Do what Jesus did, even if you're not a Christian, being compassionate for people is what every right-minded person should do.
I'm sorry about what your friend did, too.

EDIT: Please tell me if that sounded too preachy, I don't like to come off as being overly so lol


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## Xipoid (Apr 20, 2010)

I used to talk about this kind of stuff, but now it just bores me simply because no one is going to change their mind unless they wanted to in the first place (whether they know it or not). It ends up being two adamant parties trying to relate to one another and failing horribly. In the end, it's all how you rationalize the world around you, and that's something that only really matters to you.


Whatever helps you sleep at night, whether it's the invisible sky people or the cold and uncaring cosmos waiting to reclaim you.


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## Shaui (Apr 20, 2010)

Xipoid said:


> I used to talk about this kind of stuff, but now it just bores me simply because no one is going to change their mind unless they wanted to in the first place (whether they know it or not). It ends up being two adamant parties trying to relate to one another and failing horribly. In the end, it's all how you rationalize the world around you, and that's something that only really matters to you.
> 
> 
> Whatever helps you sleep at night, whether it's the invisible sky people or the cold and uncaring cosmos waiting to reclaim you.



*THIS* is probably the most important post in this whole entire thread. This is how mass-media propagated relativism fails, two conflicting ideas can't exist in harmony. The keys to happiness are acceptance and forgiveness.


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## Sgt. Andrews (Apr 20, 2010)

Why I do not believe in the typical Christian God, I somewhat follow the Kemetic religion otherwise I'm fully Atheist.

While I can see some good sides and bad sides to religion let me list some..
*
Good Sides*



It gives hope to the hopeless


Gives people a reason not to be afraid of death, everyone is afraid of it and everyone has a different way of dealing with it. Religion is just one of the ways to handle it.


It brings people together


Sometimes in some situations it can snap a person back into track, for example my cousin was a major drug addict etc. We submitted him into a camp of some sort and he came back a dedicated Christian and is now a Great Fatherly figure and has a kid, with another on the way.
_*Bad Sides

*_

People can be manipulated through religion.


Many bloody events were say called done in Gods name etc.


If bad people are shoved into a situation where they can take from others they will do so.


Forcing a religion onto others, had a bad experience with this when I was at a Private School...

While this is more an opinion than anything, If you believe then I respect your choice in the matter. If you don't, then I'll still respect your choice.


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## xcliber (Apr 20, 2010)

I used to believe Christianity, then was agnostic for a while when I got tired of things not making sense, but was pushed away from it altogether by homophobic Christians. I'm gay. I didn't choose to be gay. I just am. If I believed in God, I would say that God made me this way, but according to Christianity, it's a sin. Why would God do something like that to me? What could I possibly gain from being gay? I finally said "Screw it! An all knowing, and loving God wouldn't pull this sort of shit."

Some would say that God is giving me a challenge to overcome, and that believing and praying, I could "be cured" (for lack of a better word) of my homosexuality. But an all knowing God would know that's beyond the capabilities of my thinking mind. If he's all knowing, then he should've known the outcome of this, and if this is the outcome that he knew and intended, than he has willingly turned me over to the devil and forsaken me.

I wanted to believe and I tried to believe, but it's become apparent that either God hates me or their is no God. In either case, I have no reason to follow Christianity anymore. If there is a God, it's not the one Christians worship. And that's my belief.

I believe in science. Quantum physics just seems to make more sense to me.


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## BroadSmak (Apr 20, 2010)

Why is this such a big deal?
I don't believe in god myself, but I don't care if other people are religious, it's their desicion.


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## xcliber (Apr 20, 2010)

BroadSmak said:


> Why is this such a big deal?
> I don't believe in god myself, but I don't care if other people are religious, it's their desicion.


 A lot of people that are religious tend to put their religion above everything else. It's a very big deal when talking about Islam, Jewish, and Christian because their whole lives are supposed to revolve around worshipping their God and following His rules.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 20, 2010)

xcliber said:


> A lot of people that are religious tend to put their religion above everything else. It's a very big deal when talking about Islam, Jewish, and Christian* because their whole lives are supposed to revolve around worshipping their God and following His rules*.



Precisely why I don't follow any religion. Well it is one of many reasons why.


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## Zrcalo (Apr 20, 2010)

Icarus615 said:


> Hey guys. I just had a _thought_.
> 
> What if God was real.
> 
> And he was gay.



then instead of being an awesome god.. 
he'd be a FABULOUS god.


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## Jelly (Apr 20, 2010)

Praying is inhaling. 8)
For every piece of dogma you heap on your soul, the heavier your body load gets.
Trances, ecstasies, visions of faith, becoming more than this: it all comes down to chemicals, you know, like everything a human being is or does.
Science lets us get a little closer to perfecting the chemical catalyst, but you still have to be of the right mind to be open enough to let the experience hit you
you know without freaking out and screaming at your couch

people are neurotic
so thats how that shit goes

You're social, so you're scared to be the bad guy in any context. When you get swallowed up in perceptive hell totally unable to differentiate where a single person is or a crowd, you'll be pretty terrified of what's going on.

Personifications are pretty useful to give you a port in the storm - here's one guy describing everything. Well, that's easy - just focus on him and relating to him, as opposed to waves of indecypherable individuals washing you down.

Anyways, people were pretty bored back in the day, and have you ever noticed that a lot of religious writers were either by birth or by choice in the throws of abject poverty and ostracization. In sweatshops "possessions" are relatively common experiences because of the stress of being poor, depressed, and downtrodden individuals who have no time for social lives. Of course, when you have people, too, that are sharing in mystical terms only - individual subconscious garbage is all that's really going to be shared and grown. That's part of why the Apostles had such opposing views on things. Look at Paul of Tarsus, the guy was rich, and of course he has all these Jewish norms smashed into him (from him we get reinforcement of the Levi rites against homosexuality, and the segregation of women) - the other Apostles might have discussed these things, but they were brought together to interpret mysticism. Sure the Gospels of Mary and Thomas were rejected by the church - the fathers of the Church, Peter and Paul were pretty well-known for legalism and centralization. Thomas was a well-read and readily available text until the heretical purgings, and there was a great deal of debate between the Gnostic thinkers and precursor Catholics, and a lot of anger towards the church. Mary which has been dated to some of the oldest copies of the BIG FOUR, is still denied because it implies that Mary Magdalene was the one who received the most complete gospel (along with Judas), and that gospel was anti-materialist. No church can grow and survive without making wild claims of miraculous earthly salvation, because all humans have to live and face their mortality. However, these religions are all mystical in nature, since they were mystical in creation. Religious orders even within these churches exist with the sole purpose of maximizing mystical effects - nuns, monks, and the like go through projection, loss of coordination, and psycho-spiritual experiences due to their codes of behavior around trying to replicate that holiness. However, results are erratic, which is why you get differences like the Benedictines vs. the Franciscans.

etc
etc
etc

im gonna tweakerpost the shit out of this


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## Commiecomrade (Apr 20, 2010)

I am a sort of agnostic Christian. I believe there may be a God, and since it is a possiblity, I'd better be following Him.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 20, 2010)

Commiecomrade said:


> I am a sort of agnostic Christian. I believe there may be a God, and since it is a possiblity, I'd better be following Him.



What if you're wrong and end up worshiping a god that doesn't exist?  Wouldn't that piss off the real one?


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> What if you're wrong and end up worshiping a god that doesn't exist?  Wouldn't that piss off the real one?



That would be gods fault for not making it 100% clear that he exists.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 21, 2010)

RandyDarkshade said:


> That would be gods fault for not making it 100% clear that he exists.



True.  It's just that the poster was invoking Pascal's wager, and I despise Pascal's wager for the flawed piece of crap illogic that it is.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 21, 2010)

While there may be an entity of this nature in the universe, the concept of "God" in the traditional sense is no more than a metaphysical meat shield  created by Man in his own image to let him get away with anything.


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## CynicalCirno (Apr 21, 2010)

Zrcalo said:


> B& hammer



A bit late but you're doing it wrong. (+1 for combining a meme).
b& stands for 'BANNED'(My status if I will continue), and the original moot weapon is 'Banhammer' and not 'Bannedhammer'. The other one, uses Sage, which is a topic disabler on 4Chan.

Okay, on topic, after the shitposting, what is my relligion? Answer that.

I consider myself Jewish as I was born into it. My opinion? Is very simple.
I do believe in god, but he exists only when he appears before my eyes.
So as long as I don't see him, there is no god.

God was created by humans, the term 'god' was created only by humans. No other creature can create that. God himself? Prove he exists, but wait.

God is belief, nothing more. He does not give miracles, he does not control the world. He has another word for his name, and that's called luck.

When you have luck, you have god. People that don't believe in god, won't have luck _alone_. Because belief makes you happier.

You all guys have god, no matter if you are atheist or not. Even if you do not believe in god, he exists. He exists in luck. No matter how many gods you have, or which god you do believe at, they are all wrong. God is just.. luck.

As for Jesus, this guy is faker than your girlfriend's orgasm. He was jewish to begin with, and created christianity for some reason I don't care about.
If you want action you should go to Moses.

As for my jewness - you should reconsider that fact.


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## SirRob (Apr 21, 2010)

I believe in God because that's how I was raised. Besides, it's nice to believe that no matter how much everyone hates you, there's always someone on your side. Also nice to believe that there's something to look forward to when you die.

Really, I don't see why people make such a big deal about someone's beliefs. I mean, there's no way that anyone can be right or wrong, so what's the point in arguing about it?


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## Chmat (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't belive in any of the major belives, and I dont know any minors, so I am not religious. Why? Becouse sience is over and over proving them wrong. 

"we're all created by god and he made a perfect system where no animals could dissaper/appear" VS. Good ol' Darwin's theories + fosiles

"God was angry and drowned earth" isn't possible due to there not being enough water on earth to keep it completly under water for +40 days 

"god apeared in the shape of a burning bush, but it didn't combust"... srsly...? 

"To become walthy you have to be a good person in this life to be born in a higher cast next life" - luls, may be true, but I find that far fetched due to belive that this is my only life

When one person "hears god's voice" or say "its god's will" he's concidered a maniac. How come the pope is not?

along with other things


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## GraemeLion (Apr 21, 2010)

SirRob said:


> I believe in God because that's how I was raised. Besides, it's nice to believe that no matter how much everyone hates you, there's always someone on your side. Also nice to believe that there's something to look forward to when you die.
> 
> Really, I don't see why people make such a big deal about someone's beliefs. I mean, there's no way that anyone can be right or wrong, so what's the point in arguing about it?



I don't follow you here.

You say you believe in God, but then say that there's no way you can be right or wrong?

So it sounds like you're just covering your bases because it feels good.  Am I misunderstanding you here?  I used to believe in God because it was nice to have that belief,  but it's nice to believe I'm the best thing in bed since casanova, too.  Doesn't make it true.. and from your viewpoint, you don't even know if it's true or not, which makes what you're saying in question to at least most christian religions I was brought up around.


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## Tokalu (Apr 21, 2010)

SirRob said:


> I believe in God because that's how I was raised. Besides, it's nice to believe that no matter how much everyone hates you, there's always someone on your side. Also nice to believe that there's something to look forward to when you die.
> 
> Really, I don't see why people make such a big deal about someone's beliefs. I mean, there's no way that anyone can be right or wrong, so what's the point in arguing about it?



I think you said it well right there. Someone always by your side.


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 21, 2010)

SirRob said:


> Really, I don't see why people make such a big deal about someone's beliefs. I mean, there's no way that anyone can be right or wrong, so what's the point in arguing about it?



(I like your new avatar. :3)

I think it's a big deal when people try to make people outside of their belief live by its rules.
And if a belief claims something that is _proven _wrong, then people have the right and basis to not also believe it.


And to bring it back to the thread subject: why should people outside of a religion believe in a god represented solely by a book?
 If that book promises things that don't happen outside of the book and makes statements that are false, then it's not true. And _all that we know about that god is from this book._


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

SirRob said:


> I believe in God because that's how I was raised. Besides, it's nice to believe that no matter how much everyone hates you, there's always someone on your side. Also nice to believe that there's something to look forward to when you die.
> 
> Really, I don't see why people make such a big deal about someone's beliefs. I mean, there's no way that anyone can be* right or wrong, so what's the point in arguing about it?*



I interpra\te this as you saying there IS and ISN't a god as none of us can be "wrong" It has to be one or the other, not both. One side is rigfht, one side is wrong, the problem is proving which is which.





Tokalu said:


> I think you said it well right there. Someone always by your side.



If god doesn't exist then there is no one always by your side.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

Harebelle said:


> And to bring it back to the thread subject: why should people outside of a religion believe in a god represented solely by a book?
> If that book promises things that don't happen outside of the book and makes statements that are false, then it's not true. And _all that we know about that god is from this book._



How is that "outside" of religion if they believe some book about god?


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 21, 2010)

RandyDarkshade said:


> How is that "outside" of religion if they believe some book about god?



I mean non-religious people that Christians/Muslims/Etc. try to convert.

If they can see that the only supply of information about a supposedly perfect god is flawed, then what else do the religious folk have to convince them he exists?


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

Harebelle said:


> I mean non-religious people that Christians/Muslims/Etc. try to convert.
> 
> If they can see that the only supply of information about a supposedly perfect god is flawed, then what else do the religious folk have to convince them he exists?



A book is not good enough. That is like me taking a book on sherlock holms and then trying to convince people he exists just because he exists in that book.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Apr 21, 2010)

I am an agnostic atheist.
I cannot rule out the existence of a god, but I'm pretty damn certain it's not one described in any religion I know of.


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 21, 2010)

RandyDarkshade said:


> A book is not good enough. That is like me taking a book on sherlock holms and then trying to convince people he exists just because he exists in that book.



The ITV drama with Jeremy Brett is proof enough for me.
Oh, Holmes... <3 ~

-coughs-

The books aren't enough for me either, and anyone flat out making things up that do not occur in the books to try to "save" me fail to see what they're implying.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

Harebelle said:


> The ITV drama with Jeremy Brett is proof enough for me.
> Oh, Holmes... <3 ~
> 
> -coughs-
> ...



My friend had to deal with something like that at his work place this week. They had some temp staff come in and he was religious and he just followed my friend around the yard like he was his shadow trying to convert him into believing in god. He had to put up with it for two whole days, 10 hour shifts of this religious tard following him around like a lost jew or something.


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## SirRob (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> I don't follow you here.
> 
> You say you believe in God, but then say that there's no way you can be right or wrong?
> 
> So it sounds like you're just covering your bases because it feels good.  Am I misunderstanding you here?  I used to believe in God because it was nice to have that belief,  but it's nice to believe I'm the best thing in bed since casanova, too.  Doesn't make it true.. and from your viewpoint, you don't even know if it's true or not, which makes what you're saying in question to at least most christian religions I was brought up around.


Well, in the end it's all about faith. Of course I don't know if it's true or not, how would I know? I'm not saying it's true or not. I'm just saying it's my personal belief for it to be true. And there's nothing wrong with that.


RandyDarkshade said:


> I interpra\te this as you saying there IS and ISN't a god as none of us can be "wrong" It has to be one or the other, not both. One side is rigfht, one side is wrong, the problem is proving which is which.


But no one will ever be able to prove that. That's what I'm saying.


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## Gavrill (Apr 21, 2010)

I believe in God, but not because I have any evidence. I just have faith and hope. I'm not going to call anyone wrong for NOT believing, because, well, no one knows for sure.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

Molly said:


> I believe in God, but not because I have any evidence. I just have faith and hope. I'm not going to call anyone wrong for NOT believing, because, well, no one knows for sure.



Same for me here.

Though I hate it when religious folk try to convert non believers or atheists or whatever into believing in good despite being told to go away politely more than once. 

I have been stopped by religious people advertising for a local religious event a few times and when they ask me "Do I believe in god?" I say "Yes I do" and it usually gets them out of my hair. Of course, I haven't lied to them because I do believe. But for those who don't believe, or atheists who have found themselves hounded by a religious person trying to convert them, just tell them that you believe and they will probably go away after that. XD


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## Moddex (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd like to lay something on the table. (You know, in the namesake of continuing insightful discussion.)

It is in my belief that God exists because of us. And because of god, we drive ourselves for whatever reasons, good, evil, or non-denominational. Some want to do harm and injustice in the name of their own beliefs, be it to shame someone for their lack of faith in their own secular or religious theories. Others working, driven by the ideal that for the greater good, they are rewarded by their diety in the after life or through good karma. It boils down to one thing though. Faith. As long as there is faith in itself, god or in whatever form imagined exists through one series of beliefs or another. It's because of God's existence that drives us to do SOMETHING though. Change. Effort. Without one man's faith, wars that lead to prosperity of others would never have come. It's human nature and the drive of our own faith that lead us where we are now. In a way, if it weren't for theology, civilization would have taken far longer to grow and develop into what it is today.

Hmm, let me put it in a simple example.

Faith A exists

Faith B dislikes Faith A for its concepts.

Faith B develops itself through weapons and combat.

Faith B attacks Faith A.

Faith A must retaliate, develops weapons to fight back, and balance is made.

Both Faith A and B compete to beat one another, resulting in societal progress.

If that made sense, essentially, the wars between faiths has stirred society to grow. Be it for whatever reason. In turn, it's the chaos and conflict that drove these examples to grow forward. Now this doesn't necessarily mean that all progress is driven by the desire to destroy each other. No. Sometimes, faith has inspired designs through art and motivation. These concepts also lead to growth.

Now my next point. How did our society, in its infinite power get to where it is today? The Pyramids and various temples throughout Egypt for example. They were incredible structures no ordinary society would have dreamed to build. It was their faith and customary beliefs in their gods which ultimately lead the inspiration to drive the Egyptians to construct such colossal structures. The efforts to develop these structures brought other civilizations together, working together to gain the materials and manpower necessary to erect these symbols of human triumph. These monuments also have lead the inspirations behind countless other concepts in other cultures and artwork, designs, and even other faiths. This comes down to one thing once again though. Through god, be it in the form of some other diety to these people drove them to build which lead to these future creations and cultural advancements.

And through the course of time, we continued to advance through human will. Nothing slowed us. One thing advanced another in some manner or another. Conflict, creation, chaos, inspiration, dreams, aspirations. These things lead us. Is this not what god is made of? I think it's through our strength, will, and faith that god exists.

All the things man has done was through our own means. God didn't build temples, cities, weapons, technologies, we did. But we still have that same concept to thank. Without that inspiration, we wouldn't be where we are now. Not our towering cities, nor our legendary monuments. It is my belief that through this will, WE are god. Earth, creation, destruction, Hate, Love, War, Peace, and Mankind, altogether are what make god. Through our power, we shape our Earth as we see it.


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## Tokalu (Apr 21, 2010)

Molly said:


> I believe in God, but not because I have any evidence. I just have faith and hope. I'm not going to call anyone wrong for NOT believing, because, well, no one knows for sure.



Its all about spirituality, and no spirituality is not proof, but it IS what makes us sense things further than what our senses can interpret. That is what faith and hope is all about.


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## Captain Howdy (Apr 21, 2010)

I like the general consensus of his thread. "If i believe hard enough, I feel good (delusions), and I always feel as if someone is there, Eve in my most down and out times of my life  (MPD/schizophrenia). Gods helped man progress through all these years, as long as they believe, they are driven to succeed!(delusions of grandeur) We could still be in the dark ages if we didn't have faith (projection).


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## GraemeLion (Apr 21, 2010)

SirRob said:


> Well, in the end it's all about faith. Of course I don't know if it's true or not, how would I know? I'm not saying it's true or not. I'm just saying it's my personal belief for it to be true. And there's nothing wrong with that.
> But no one will ever be able to prove that. That's what I'm saying.



See, that's a cop out in my book.

You're doing something that you believe is true, but you're unwilling to commit to it and say it's true.

If it's true, what happens to people like me who do not believe?  Come on, say it.


----------



## Tokalu (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> See, that's a cop out in my book.
> 
> You're doing something that you believe is true, but you're unwilling to commit to it and say it's true.
> 
> *If it's true, what happens to people like me who do not believe?  Come on, say it.*



No matter what religion or lack there of you may be (doesn't matter), but why such an aggressive attitude?


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 21, 2010)

Tokalu said:


> No matter what religion or lack there of you may be (doesn't matter), but why such an aggressive attitude?



My belief after I die is that we are done.  Obliterated.  Whatever.  Nothing painful, nothing nonpainful, something different.

Most religions I've run into tend to believe that I will be tortured eternally or have my soul destroyed painfully or will come back in a "lesser being."

Asking someone what his religion says happens to unbelievers is a valid question.  It's not aggression, and it needs to be treated as such.  For people who say they are christian, there is the happy part of having Jesus on your side, but there is the other side, too.  

In short, this isn't an aggressive attitude.  I'm not the one with the belief structure that believes people who don't follow it will burn in hell forever.

I'm the one with the belief structure that it all goes black.

So I still await my answer.  What happens to people who do not believe in Christianity?   It's important, in this case, because the person who brought it up stated he doesn't even know if it's true, he just believes it is.  So under that belief, what does he believe will happen to me?


----------



## Browder (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> My belief after I die is that we are done.  Obliterated.  Whatever.  Nothing painful, nothing nonpainful, something different.
> 
> Most religions I've run into tend to believe that I will be tortured eternally or have my soul destroyed painfully or will come back in a "lesser being."
> 
> ...



Depends on what denomination of Christianity he follows.

Oh you wanted a serious answer? That you burn in hell. Why should that matter though? He doesn't like you any less or more for it, and judging from his post he's not inclined to push his pity onto you to get you to convert. What do you want, a pat on the back for having a 'nicer' post death scenario than the alternative? If so, dude that's very dogmatic fundamentalist of you.


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 21, 2010)

Browder said:


> Depends on what denomination of Christianity he follows.
> 
> Oh you wanted a serious answer? That you burn in hell. Why should that matter though? He doesn't like you any less or more for it, and judging from his post he's not inclined to push his pity onto you to get you to convert. What do you want, a pat on the back for having a 'nicer' post death scenario than the alternative? If so, dude that's very dogmatic fundamentalist of you.



It matters because, well, if he doesn't know if it's true or not, how's he any different from me?    So he believes it, but doesn't, but does?

I imagine if it's true, God wouldn't have too high an opinion of someone pretending , either.


----------



## Browder (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> It matters because, well, if he doesn't know if it's true or not, how's he any different from me?    So he believes it, but doesn't, but does?
> 
> I imagine if it's true, God wouldn't have too high an opinion of someone pretending , either.



^Valid point. Carry on.

SirRob, answer the question.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> It matters because, well, if he doesn't know if it's true or not, how's he any different from me?    *So he believes it, but doesn't, but does?*
> 
> I imagine if it's true, God wouldn't have too high an opinion of someone pretending , either.



I think my brain just exploded.


I believe in God's existence, however I am not "committed" in the sense that I don't go to church to worship God, I don't say a prayer every night, I don't sing hyms, blah blah blah. Why? Because I don't feel I need to do all that stuff. Also I don't want a religious body telling me "this is what you should be doing and you must do it or God will hate you!" I often feel like religion is an excuse for the "religious leaders" to control people.


----------



## Jelly (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> So I still await my answer.  What happens to people who do not believe in Christianity?   It's important, in this case, because the person who brought it up stated he doesn't even know if it's true, he just believes it is.  So under that belief, what does he believe will happen to me?



As a Christian, I don't really think anything is going to happen to you.
You'll have to deal with your own trials in your own way, God just focuses that into attempting to find inner-peace.
for me, anyways

you know
kingdom of god is within you
etc.


----------



## Ozriel (Apr 21, 2010)

Jelly said:


> As a Christian, I don't really think anything is going to happen to you.
> You'll have to deal with your own trials in your own way, God just focuses that into attempting to find inner-peace.
> for me, anyways
> 
> ...



Peace, love, and turning people into condiments.


----------



## Attaman (Apr 21, 2010)

Browder said:


> Depends on what denomination of Christianity he follows.
> 
> Oh you wanted a serious answer? That you burn in hell.


Either of these, really.  Depends on who you ask.  Some people are "If you aren't a tru-Christian you go to Hell for all eternity", some are "As long as you lived a life in God's image," some are just "Did you murder / rape someone?  No?  Good enough."  It depends on who you ask.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, religion is bullshit. Especially Jews. They're like, the weak link of religion. Them and Budists. Atleast scientologists are creative. Too bad they're fucking dumb as shit.


----------



## Lobar (Apr 21, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Yeah, religion is bullshit. Especially Jews. They're like, the weak link of religion. Them and Budists. Atleast scientologists are creative. Too bad they're fucking dumb as shit.



I was hoping you were dead.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 21, 2010)

Lobar said:


> I was hoping you were dead.



I was hoping you didn't still have an anime avatar >:[


----------



## Lobar (Apr 21, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> I was hoping you didn't still have an anime avatar >:[



I didn't have one when you had first fucked off. :V


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 21, 2010)

Lobar said:


> I didn't have one when you had first fucked off. :V



Oh yeah. That was Rigor...lol She was like, catholic or something. It's a shame I had to murder her. 
Hey btw, you're cool.


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 22, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Yeah, religion is bullshit. Especially Jews. They're like, the weak link of religion. Them and Budists. Atleast scientologists are creative. Too bad they're fucking dumb as shit.



*smack on the back of the head*  Behave.  You're from Longview Texas.  You're perpetuating the stereotype that your state breeds racist, bigoted assholes.


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 22, 2010)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Peace, love, and turning people into condiments.



I wanna be mustard.  The good fancy british kind.


----------



## anthroguy101 (Apr 22, 2010)

I find a lot of Asian religions to be particularly interesting when it comes to spirit, soul, and karma.  Reincarnation is also the only possible way a furry can live out his/her wildest dream.


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

RandyDarkshade said:


> I think my brain just exploded.
> 
> 
> I believe in God's existence, however I am not "committed" in the sense that I don't go to church to worship God, I don't say a prayer every night, I don't sing hyms, blah blah blah. Why? Because I don't feel I need to do all that stuff. Also I don't want a religious body telling me "this is what you should be doing and you must do it or God will hate you!" I often feel like religion is an excuse for the "religious leaders" to control people.



Well, with the whole "I believe in God but I don't know if it's true or not , it just feels nice to believe in something" viewpoint, I'm not certain that he's going to pass God's muster.  I've been told in the past that this is trying to "game pascal's wager, and God doesn't approve of people playing games."


----------



## Lobar (Apr 22, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> Well, with the whole "I believe in God but I don't know if it's true or not , it just feels nice to believe in something" viewpoint, I'm not certain that he's going to pass God's muster.  I've been told in the past that this is trying to "game pascal's wager, and God doesn't approve of people playing games."



I've heard a pastor refer to these as "fire insurance" Christians.  Not too sure about this God thing but ohnoIdon'twannaburn, so just in case...

I didn't have much to agree with the rest of the stuff he had to say, but that bit made me chuckle.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 22, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> *smack on the back of the head*  Behave.  You're from Longview Texas.  You're perpetuating the stereotype that your state breeds racist, bigoted assholes.



It's a stereotype to be religious in L-view. 
I fit into the racist asshole type. I'm more punk than redneck though. 
Most people love me. I don't get it.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 22, 2010)

Actually that's not right. I'm nice to most people (unless you're a slow driver (or work at a church)) and me and my bros just go around fucking with people. Preferably people of african American descent. 

It's hard to explain. You'd probably like me in real life. Most do.


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 22, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Actually that's not right. I'm nice to most people (unless you're a slow driver (or work at a church)) and me and my bros just go around fucking with people. Preferably people of african American descent.
> 
> It's hard to explain. You'd probably like me in real life. Most do.



Maybe.  Maybe not.  I have a cousin that's a sweetheart and extremely awesome, but when she opens her mouth and starts talking...It makes me cringe.

I don't think it's necessary to lump everyone together because of based on faith, skin-colour, orientation, where they live, etc.  And unfortunately when people act on the perceived stereotype they only do more damage and incite people to link their bad behavior with whatever group they belong to.  

You can be punk and be completely awesome.  But just like christians don't have to be legalistic in their views, you don't have to be racist in yours.

If you go around fucking with people, be sure they're going to do the exact same back to you...probably armed.  I just hope that never happens to you.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 22, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> It's a stereotype to be religious in L-view.
> I fit into the racist asshole type. I'm more punk than redneck though.
> Most people love me. I don't get it.



Ya know, despite you come across as an asshole most of the time, I still like you.


----------



## CtrlAltCorrupt (Apr 22, 2010)

I don't believe in a god that has never helped me do anything, everything I've ever done was done by ME, and not some supernatural being who I can't see.


----------



## Ikrit (Apr 22, 2010)

the bible is a book of astrology
full of puns and metaphors
many sun gods shared the exact same life
born of a vergin
preforemed mericles
dead for 3 day
then resurrected

Orion belt is refured to as the "3 kings"
they line up with sirius "the star in the east" on dec. 25 and point were the sun rise
the 3 kings follow the star in the east to locate the rise of the sun

during winter the sun looks like it's moveing south. it will reach it's lowest point on dec. 22nd. for 3 days it will remain there, it is also right under the cross constellation at this time. then on the 25th it will rise 1 degree
the sun dies on a cross for 3 days then rise


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 22, 2010)

lazyredhead said:


> the bible is a book of astrology
> full of puns and metaphors
> many sun gods shared the exact same life
> born of a vergin
> ...




That's what always had me chuckling in Art History.  If you study the pictures above the doors of the old churches (called the tympanum), usually they're boardered by astrological references.  Up until a few hundred years ago christians sought out astrologers for readings.


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

lazyredhead said:


> the bible is a book of astrology
> full of puns and metaphors
> many sun gods shared the exact same life
> born of a vergin
> ...




*fix'd*

EDIT: I just did a research paper, remembering to cite sources is still stuck in my head 3x


----------



## Ikrit (Apr 22, 2010)

Shaui said:


> *fix'd*


why yes
idk if i should be surprised you got it right


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

lazyredhead said:


> the bible is a book of astrology
> full of puns and metaphors
> many sun gods shared the exact same life
> born of a vergin
> ...




Slight problem.

Zeitgeist is full of shit.

And Jesus wasn't born on December 25th.


----------



## Ikrit (Apr 22, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> Slight problem.
> 
> Zeitgeist is full of shit.
> 
> And Jesus wasn't born on December 25th.


 yet we celebrate it on the 25th
funny how that works


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

lazyredhead said:


> yet we celebrate it on the 25th
> funny how that works



Yes.

See, if you actually research Zeitgeist by checking its sources, you'll find that the "egyptologist" they consulted was really just a neopagan author.

Isis was not a virgin.  Horus was not killed on a cross where he descended and rose again.  Krishna, Dionysus, and Attis were not born of virgins. (In some cases, weren't born in a proper sense at all) .  Son and sun are not homophones in any ancient languages that would affect that, like middle egyptian, greek, hebrew, or latin.  (Or aramaic.)    The 25th of december was chosen because it was commonly believed to be 9 months after the arch-angel gabriel appeared to Mary.  

And that's just the first 20 minutes of bullshit lies that "movie" contains.  

All the sources get circular, and point to their own works.


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

I remember watching zeitgeist, and then doing some research to see if Horus' mother was actually named Mary like the documentary suggests. I couldn't find anything XD.

This film doesn't even come up to par with having "reliable sources" like a college research paper.

However, everything about the banking situation and the NWO is true, because there is hard evidence for that outside of the documentary.


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

Shaui said:


> I remember watching zeitgeist, and then doing some research to see if Horus' mother was actually named Mary like the documentary suggests. I couldn't find anything XD.
> 
> This film doesn't even come up to par with having "reliable sources" like a college research paper.
> 
> However, everything about the banking situation and the NWO is true, because they have hard evidence for that.



It's all flawed, though.  There are more pertinant questions in the latter parts.. but much of it just is circular referencing.  I checked all the references and all the facts.  And looked for three reliable sources for each one.   It.. falls apart on inspection.  

It's great conspiracy theory, and I love me some conspiracy theory, but it's just entertainment.


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> It's all flawed, though.  There are more pertinant questions in the latter parts.. but much of it just is circular referencing.  I checked all the references and all the facts.  And looked for three reliable sources for each one.   It.. falls apart on inspection.
> 
> It's great conspiracy theory, and I love me some conspiracy theory, but it's just entertainment.



A "mockumentary" perhaps?


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

Shaui said:


> A "mockumentary" perhaps?



Some people find it easier to excuse their own flaws if they feel there is some controlling factor that made their bad decision irrelevant.


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> Some people find it easier to excuse their own flaws if they feel there is some controlling factor that made their bad decision irrelevant.



I'm confused, what exactly do you mean by this?

Hint: Give an example ;3


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

Shaui said:


> I'm confused, what exactly do you mean by this?
> 
> Hint: Give an example ;3



An example?  

Well, look at the New World Order.  There are people convinced that there's this all seeing all controlling entity that controls everything.   Nothing they do can stop it.    They give up the power they may have in their lives by just pretending like they don't have any power.

Then when shit goes bad,  can't be their fault, can it?  It's the Muslims, or the Jews, or the liberals, or democrats, or republicans, or bildeburg , or the New world order, or the fags.. and it's all part of their PLAN.


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> An example?
> 
> Well, look at the New World Order.  There are people convinced that there's this all seeing all controlling entity that controls everything.   Nothing they do can stop it.    They give up the power they may have in their lives by just pretending like they don't have any power.
> 
> Then when shit goes bad,  can't be their fault, can it?  It's the Muslims, or the Jews, or the liberals, or democrats, or republicans, or bildeburg , or the New world order, or the fags.. and it's all part of their PLAN.



You are very fortunate to know that much about the NWO like me. Even if the future looks grim for sovereign nations everywhere, it's good to know so you can take action.

BUY GUNS AND AMMO

That's my official instruction.


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

Plus, here's another trick question, based on the "Orion" thing.

How many kings visited Jesus in the Bible on the date of his birth?


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> Plus, here's another trick question, based on the "Orion" thing.
> 
> How many kings visited Jesus in the Bible on the date of his birth?



Uhh, none. I think it was just 3 wise men, right?


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 22, 2010)

Shaui said:


> Uhh, none. I think it was just 3 wise men, right?



Well, they mean wise men when they say kings.. but..

The bible never mentioned how many there were at all.   Just "Wise men from the east."

The belief that there were three of them comes from more modern (like, 1800s modern) interpretations that three gifts equals three people.

So, how does the Three Kings thing work now with Orion's belt and the Bible?

Answer, like most of Zeitgeist.. it doesn't.  It falls apart on critical thought.


----------



## Lobar (Apr 22, 2010)

Shaui said:


> You are very fortunate to know that much about the NWO like me. Even if the future looks grim for sovereign nations everywhere, it's good to know so you can take action.
> 
> BUY GUNS AND AMMO
> 
> That's my official instruction.



"Kill all sons of bitches."

That's my official instructions.


----------



## Shaui (Apr 22, 2010)

Lobar said:


> "Kill all sons of bitches."
> 
> That's my official instructions.



If you hurry up, maybe the helicopter is made of chocolate.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 22, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> I don't think it's necessary to lump everyone together because of based on faith, skin-colour, orientation, where they live, etc.  And unfortunately when people act on the perceived stereotype they only do more damage and incite people to link their bad behavior with whatever group they belong to.


Having fun isn't necessary. Just go to walmart and make fun of black people. It works. They get mad and shoot at you and steal your t.v.!




RandyDarkshade said:


> Ya know, despite you come across as an asshole most of the time, I still like you.


I don't really act like this in real life. But thanks


----------



## Pawl (Apr 23, 2010)

I just feel like religion is a comfort mechanism people use. Like an imaginary friend. 

It's a mechanism I choose not to use.


----------



## anthroguy101 (Apr 23, 2010)

Unlike some Christians (a lot, actually)
I believe in a merciful, loving God and a forgiving Jesus.
_The Episcopal Church Welcomes You!_


----------



## Zontar (Apr 23, 2010)

There is no God. Proof? Walk into a cancer ward.


----------



## ValiantWolf (Apr 24, 2010)

The only person or being i believe in is myself. If you believe in a god thats fine, if you do not thats fine as well but, with all due respect people need to stop whining about their religons like a bunch of emos and just learn to respect each others differnces


----------



## Ben (Apr 24, 2010)

This post is going to be kind of explicit sexually, so try not to be children about it.

I used to believe in God up until I was twelve years old, until I discovered gay porn. I knew that the bible was very clearly against homosexuality-- which is why I felt confused as to why after masturbating it to a few dozen times, I wasn't facing any repercussions. At first, I started praying for forgiveness each week in church, but eventually, I stopped, and with knowing a lot of people online that didn't believe in God, I felt compelled to research the validity of God's existence.

I think my biggest issue with most religions is the whole Heaven/Hell concept, the idea that you can live eternally in absolute bliss, or absolute agony. Consider that one of the crucial things that makes life worth living, is the balance of good and evil. If that balance is removed entirely, then life becomes incredibly joyless. For those who don't think about the actual implications of this, it's the perfect incentive to convince people to follow your religion, and to donate to the "Prettier Steeple" fund while you're at it.

My other issue with religion is that, I think a large reason murder and rape are so prevalent in humanity, is because most people think that ultimately, they have to answer to God, and if they just pray for forgiveness, that everything will be alright in the end (especially in the case of Catholics). I think if more people took into consideration the real-world consequences of a lot of things, more emphasis on the whole "treat others how you would want to be treated" mantra, then there would be a lot less violence, since hey, who cares if you kill that guy-- he'll end up living in Heaven forever anyway. If only they realized how unfortunate such a theoretical fate would be.

Basically, I prefer to only believe in things I can see and feel with my very own eyes. Otherwise, I feel as though I'm displacing myself from reality, and doing others a disservice by not planting my feet firmly in it.


----------



## SirRob (Apr 24, 2010)

Browder said:


> ^Valid point. Carry on.
> 
> SirRob, answer the question.


Don't tell me what to do, woman!





GraemeLion said:


> It matters because, well, if he doesn't know if it's true or not, how's he any different from me?    So he believes it, but doesn't, but does?
> 
> I imagine if it's true, God wouldn't have too high an opinion of someone pretending , either.


Like I said, I believe it to be true. But that belief has no solid proof, so I'm not going to try to convert people or anything. Becuase I wouldn't be able to back it up. There's also nothing wrong with whatever you believe in, I think. I mean, most people are born into their religion, so it's not like they can really help believing in that religion. 
I'm technically Catholic, due to my religious parents. But my beliefs have become much more lenient after I discovered I was gay. I like to believe that as long as you're not actively hurting other people, you'll go to heaven regardless of your beliefs. You can tell me that it's the easy way out, and you'd probably be right. But I like having simple beliefs.


----------



## Browder (Apr 24, 2010)

SirRob said:


> Don't tell me what to do, woman!



Please. You're totally the wife in this relationship. Go make me a sammich.

And I think the main problem that GraemeLion has is that you're changing you're belief system to fit your own views of the world  so you don't end up looking like a hypocrite, or something. If that's the case inb4 "Either you believe or you don't."

And for what it's worth your God is real. He exits within your own frame of reference so all your actions are determined by Him regardless if other people believe in him or not. Like me.


----------



## SirRob (Apr 24, 2010)

Browder said:


> Please. You're totally the wife in this relationship. Go make me a sammich.
> 
> And I think the main problem that GraemeLion has is that you're changing you're belief system to fit your own views of the world  so you don't end up looking like a hypocrite, or something. If that's the case inb4 "Either you believe or you don't."
> 
> And for what it's worth your God is real. He exits within your own frame of reference so all your actions are determined by Him regardless if other people believe in him or not. Like me.


That's exactly what I'm doing. But I'd rather believe in that rather than believing I'll go to hell.

I'll agree with your last statement, but not the first.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 24, 2010)

Four years ago I used to be a Christian. I went to a baptist church. I went to youth church on wednsday. I helped out other days and went on mission trips when I could. 
Due to an argument between my step-grandmother and my parents over the ownership of my college funds, I was separated from her and that side of the family as well. 
Of course, I had tried sneaking visits with her (and vice versa). That lasted for about two months before someone at school told their parents who then told my parents. My parents put a restraining order on her keeping her from seeing me or my sister. Since I hadn't told my parents, my dad beat me and my mom grounded me from going outside. I spent two months of that summer in my house. 
My parents told me it was time for me to take on adult responsibilities. It was hard to ignore my step-family's messages. Every time they found a new way to contact me, it only hurt worse.
 I moved to a different school where neither I nor my parents knew anybody. When someone takes on adult responsibilities, they are also forced to act as adults.
 I stopped going to church after a few months because it was too obvious god wasn't real. You know when you get old enough for santa to seem like a stupid thing to believe in. god was worse than santa. He wasn't real because of everything in the past 6 months that had happened. 
 I eventually got over god not being real. And now everytime I hear anything about god, it pisses me off. Who has the nerve to brainwash their child to believe that there is a man in the sky that created everything and that if you get other people to believe in him you will go to heaven. 
Fuck god, even if he is real.


----------



## Slyck (Apr 25, 2010)

I tend to believe modern research conducted on modern equipment more than a 2000+ year old book. As for evolution (the actual theory not that monkey-to-man crap that some people think it is) it just makes sense. Learn what it is before you talk it down. I have yet to read the Origin of Species for a full bit of insight on the theory but I likely will as even though I have Fundie Fred and Bible Bill here proverbially up my ass to teach my sinful self the spirit of God, I am a firm believer in having read both sides of the slab.

Probably the reason I sound so stiff here is I have to resist the urge to sarcasticaly preach about nature's harmonic simultaneous 4-day time cube XD.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

Slyck said:


> Probably the reason I sound so stiff here is I have to resist the urge to sarcasticaly preach about nature's harmonic simultaneous 4-day time cube XD.



D 
Why don't you just go ruin life someone else!


----------



## Telnac (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't see why people conclude that God can't be real because a shitstorm happens in their lives.  God isn't a cosmic Santa Claus.  In fact, the Bible talks in many, many places how hard life is in this world, for believers and non-believers alike.  The challenge is to keep one's faith despite it all.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

Telnac said:


> I don't see why people conclude that God can't be real because a shitstorm happens in their lives.  God isn't a cosmic Santa Claus.  In fact, the Bible talks in many, many places how hard life is in this world, for believers and non-believers alike.  The challenge is to keep one's faith despite it all.


God didnt make that shitstorm, nor did he anything else. And that's exactly what he is. a cosmic santa.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> God didnt make that shitstorm, nor did he anything else. And that's exactly what he is. a cosmic santa.


Well, I wouldn't believe in a cosmic Santa either.  Thankfully, the God of the Bible is anything but that.


----------



## Tewin Follow (Apr 25, 2010)

Telnac said:


> I don't see why people conclude that God can't be real because a shitstorm happens in their lives.  God isn't a cosmic Santa Claus.  In fact, the Bible talks in many, many places how hard life is in this world, for believers and non-believers alike.  The challenge is to keep one's faith despite it all.



Well, the Bible says _multiple times_ that if you ask for something from God, and your faith is as least as big as a mustard seed, it _will _happen.
It doesn't say "unless ________" or "although _____________"; it flat out states it will happen when you ask for it.

But it doesn't happen. Nothing happens which couldn't have happened by chance, anyway.

People _know _it doesn't work and make excuses like "you weren't praying hard enough" or "you aren't worthy of God's love", but these statements go directly against what God has claimed.

In a way, this is a good thing, because often people then go out and make good things happen _by themselves_.
But it still means the Bible-God isn't being the cosmic Santa he claimes that he is.


----------



## Wreth (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't worship any god. There are hundreds of religions, how do I know which is the right one, or if any of them are the right one? If god is as great as religions say he is, he'd be understanding of ehy I don't have a belief, and why i'm agnostic.


----------



## Fenrir Lupus (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm not sure as of now.  I've had some experiences that don't seem likely without a God, but then again, there's no objective proof.

As for morality having to stem from a God figure...

I think morality originally came from the whole idea of "I don't want you to do that to me."  People don't want other people to lash out at them.

So if this new "evil" is done against another, seemingly innocent person, we have a desire to help them.  Why?  Because we'd want someone to help us in a similar scenario.

So your "straight line" may or may not have a more earthly origin...


----------



## CrazyLee (Apr 25, 2010)

Last night I saw one of the many reasons I consider myself Agonistic (Meaning I do not know if there is or is not god(s)).

There's a corner next to campus where, every few Saturdays during the summer, there's a bunch of soap-box preachers. They sit there and preach at the top of their lungs until they're red faced and hoarse about how EVERYONE is going to HELL for being evil and sinful, unless they turn to Jesus. And these preachers have a large sign of all the EVIL things that they have NEVER DONE IN THEIR LIVES.

The sign includes things like Sodomites (which means married straight couples who have anal sex are going to hell, but gays who do not have anal sex aren't???), Liars (like most of Congress ), Fornicators, haters of god, people who listen to rock music, atheists, people who worship other Gods, ect ect.

So yea, there's a pretty long list, and apparently unless you're absolutely perfect, and never make any mistakes AT ALL, you're burning in hell.

And I love how they spit out the "burning in hell" part with such venom. Like they hate other people so much they want them to burn in hell. Dude, if someone's burning in hell and you hate them, why should it matter?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hell actually has a lot to do with my dislike in Christianity. But in order to understand my distrust in religion, which is complex, you have to go back into my past. 

See, I used to be a devout, churchgoing Christian. Then I hit puberty. And had urges. And wanted to touch myself. But according to what I was taught, Sex is this icky thing that is BAD BAD BAD. And would send me to Hell.

This was about the time I started questioning the religion. Everything I liked, violent video games, porn, sex, masturbating, girls, rock music, everything was considered PURE EVIL, and even the smallest deflection from the straight and narrow, even masturbating once, would send me to the LAKE OF FIRE!!!

See, I believed that it was whether or not you were a good person, you would go to hell or not. As long as you followed God's laws and were good, you'd go to heaven. It had nothing to do with believing in Jesus as your savior and asking him to take your sins.

Eventually I figured out that you HAD to believe in Jesus. This made me think... what if you lived in a remote village that didn't know about Jesus, and say you were a very good person who always selflessly helped others, that means you'd go to hell?

And then I watched a hardcore born-again tell a grieving girl that her recently deceased grandmother, if not saved by Jesus, would be burning in hell. If that's not a reason to punch someone I don't know what is.

I've been thinking about this for a while since then, and i*t makes absolutely NO SENSE that a loving, kind God would ever send ANYONE to Hell, especially for not being impossibly perfect.* Hell, this idea of a place of eternal torture, sounds like the place that would make Dick Cheney get a stiffy just thinking about. *Why would a loving God torture people?* This is Eternal Torture people, which means that if the universe goes on for 10 billion years you'll be tortured for 10 billion years. If the universe goes on for Infinity years, you'll be tortured and in agony for infinity years. And Hell is described as a place more painful than the worst pain you can ever have.

The worst crime a human can commit is murder, and the worst punishment we give them is a quick execution. We even condemn and abhor torture (usually), and for good reason. Humans can easily see the evil in torture, yet God supposedly throws people who make simple mistakes into a place of torture. Religious people I have talked to say it's Justice, that God is a Just God. There is no justice when the punishment does not fit the crime, when the punishment exceeds the crime by a gazillion-fold.

And that is one of many reasons I am no longer religious. Spiritual, maybe, but not religious.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

Telnac said:


> Well, I wouldn't believe in a cosmic Santa either.  Thankfully, the God of the Bible is anything but that.



I didn't say he was supposed to be a cosmic santa. I said he's no more than a cosmic santa.


----------



## Tewin Follow (Apr 25, 2010)

CrazyLee said:


> -longcat long post-



I actually read that. Yay for me.

I hope you no longer have any self-doubts or worries that you're somehow "bad" for enjoying yourself. :3

I very heavily agree with the bolded sections. 
How many people do you know who _deserve _to be in pain? To never be happy again?
Not many, right? And _none _of them deserve it forever.
But a wonderful, kind god would inflict this upon them anyway? 

I would never punish someone for something that didn't harm a soul, and then never stop punishing them. In Hell, people may come to understand that what they did was "wrong" and be sorry, but God doesn't care and will leave them with it while doting on the agressive, hateful preachers who follow his words?
*
You, myself and other imperfect humans who feel this way have higher morals than the Christian God.*


----------



## Wreth (Apr 25, 2010)

Also, another thing I thought about. Isn't a good person who is good purely because of their care for others, better than someone who is good because they were told to be and are scared of hell if they don't.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

CrazyLee said:


> Last night I saw one of the many reasons I consider myself Agonistic (Meaning I do not know if there is or is not god(s)).
> 
> There's a corner next to campus where, every few Saturdays during the summer, there's a bunch of soap-box preachers. They sit there and preach at the top of their lungs until they're red faced and hoarse about how EVERYONE is going to HELL for being evil and sinful, unless they turn to Jesus. And these preachers have a large sign of all the EVIL things that they have NEVER DONE IN THEIR LIVES.
> 
> ...


Where do you live again? I'll find them. And Ill show them what their god has in store for them.

 Its not that I don't believe in god, I just fucking hate him.


----------



## CrazyLee (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Its not that I don't believe in god, I just fucking hate him.


Southeast Michigan.

And I wouldn't necessarily hate God due to the stupid actions of people who claim to follow him yet distort his religions.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

CrazyLee said:


> Southeast Michigan.
> 
> And I wouldn't necessarily hate God due to the stupid actions of people who claim to follow him yet distort his religions.



Oh that's not why I hate him, but that's what will lead to their deaths. 
Go back on this thread about half a page and find my long asshole of a story. 
And then search on google: East Texas Church Burnings.


----------



## Alkatraz (Apr 25, 2010)

This thread has taught me so much. I am a changed man.
I would like to thank everyone for their valuable input and 
I assure you all this will be all over channel 6 news when I
show them what has been discovered here. You are all an
asset to your species.


----------



## Ariosto (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Its not that I don't believe in god, I just fucking hate him.


 
Why?


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

Martino Zorrilla said:


> Why?



I've arsoned churches for dumber questions.


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Oh that's not why I hate him, but that's what will lead to their deaths.
> Go back on this thread about half a page and find my long asshole of a story.
> And then search on google: East Texas Church Burnings.




Dude, seriously, I hope you're fucking joking.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> Dude, seriously, I hope you're fucking joking.



About what? I don't have to kill them. I know people. So I guess I am kind of joking, huh?


----------



## Ariosto (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> I've arsoned churches for dumber questions.


 
Why?


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> About what? I don't have to kill them. I know people. So I guess I am kind of joking, huh?



*shrugs*  I don't know, are you joking about setting fires to churches?  Do you know there are people that work there through the day and evening all week taking care of the property?  Not to mention churches sometimes are the hub of a community itself, with outreach programs that aide people who aren't even members.

Look, I'm not a christian here.  I'm pagan. I have my own story for leaving the church and it's not a pretty one.  But I wouldn't even _joke_ about this, because it's a very serious topic.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

Martino Zorrilla said:


> Why?



Lol


----------



## MichaelFoster (Apr 25, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> *shrugs*  I don't know, are you joking about setting fires to churches?  Do you know there are people that work there through the day and evening all week taking care of the property?  Not to mention churches sometimes are the hub of a community itself, with outreach programs that aide people who aren't even members.
> 
> Look, I'm not a christian here.  I'm pagan. I have my own story for leaving the church and it's not a pretty one.  But I wouldn't even _joke_ about this, because it's a very serious topic.



I don't give a FUCK about washups that end up in churches. Quite frankly, people who reach out to other people for no real reason tend to be really fucking annoying. I have never benefited from going to a church. And if you're suggesting that the socialistic ideas that come from churches are a good thing then you're wrong. 
Plus, It's not that serious. They think they're going to a better place anyway.


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> I don't give a FUCK about washups that end up in churches. Quite frankly, people who reach out to other people for no real reason tend to be really fucking annoying. I have never benefited from going to a church. And if you're suggesting that the socialistic ideas that come from churches are a good thing then you're wrong.
> Plus, It's not that serious. They think they're going to a better place anyway.



*shakes head sadly*  Not all things that come from the church are good.  Intolerance and bigotry is one of those things.  But they do provide food goods for citizens in need, meeting places, afterschool programs, and many, many other community programs, whether they are part of the church itself or just being used to host those meetings.   I know, i've attended many, many churches in my life for 20 years.   I've seen it's inner workings and what they do, both positive and negative.  You're lumping everyone into one catagory based on your life experience, and you're so young, regardless of the fact that you've gone through some serious stuff.  This anger you have is not healthy, man.


----------



## Alkatraz (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm not going to lie, i've thought about burning down a church or two.
I _DID_ burn down part of an elementry school....but that wasn't rly my fault.
You shouldn't cast ppl out because they feel the urge to fire things up a little.
pyromaniacs are pplz too


----------



## Ziff (Apr 25, 2010)

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one less God than you do. Once you figure out why you can dismiss all other gods, then you can know why I dismiss yours. -By someone... I forget his name.


----------



## Lobar (Apr 25, 2010)

MichaelFoster said:


> Its not that I don't believe in god, I just fucking hate him.



Please to be calling yourself a misotheist than an atheist then.  It's more accurate and we don't really want you anyways.


----------



## Corto (Apr 25, 2010)

Oops looks like Foster wont be able to reply


----------



## Zaraphayx (Apr 25, 2010)

lol@ evangelical atheists not seeing how hilariously hypocritical it is.


----------



## Lobar (Apr 25, 2010)

Zaraphayx said:


> lol@ evangelical atheists not seeing how hilariously hypocritical it is.



because it's just the sharing of ideas we're opposed to, not the ridiculous acts of bullshit motivated by religion


----------



## Truth (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't choose to believe in godâ€™s existence or non-existence. I've not got a definite answer. If he didn't exist, then why are we all here? If he did, why did he bother creating us? Can he see in the future? Who created him? It just ends up with a long string of unanswerable questions.

The reasons for these holy books being made might have been for what the writers thought was a good cause, but things happen, and the teachings cause disputes. The books might have done good, but they've had their share of bad too. Whether or not it was worth the bad could be disputed, people might have done fine without having some men they've never met write down stories to teach people morals.

But back to God. If he did exist, what would he do? Sit around looking at Earth, would he even care about Earth if he created the universe? Why did he create the universe? Boredom? Did he cause all these wars as a cure to boredom?

If he didn't; It's back to "Why and how are we here?" There's no definite answer, so I won't choose either. I'll stay without any belief in his existence or non-existence.


----------



## Aleu (Apr 25, 2010)

Ziff said:


> I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one less God than you do. Once you figure out why you can dismiss all other gods, then you can know why I dismiss yours. -By someone... I forget his name.



Richard Dawkins


----------



## Sheba_Metaluna (Apr 25, 2010)

HotRodLincoln said:


> I believe in the Lord God, Jesus Christ, I am a strong Methodist, and I always will be.
> I pray every night for my unsaved friends, but I am not one of the Christians who will force The Bible down your throat


Amen 
I am also a Methodist
or United Methodist whichever you prefer
I have gotten into the habit of praying every night ..I can't fall asleep unless I do so ...its just kind of my own little ritual to calm myself down and talk to God. 
I do not believe in trying to convert the whole world and in a way I believe that if you live your life as a kind and tolerant human being regardless of religion then ..well i just don't think that good people go to hell..I mean that just does not make sense to me

I also try to keep in mind that the Bible was written long ago by men..so it is a bit biased ..but there are many things that we can still take from it and learn from..in order to be better people

Also Baptist and Methodist are very similar denominations...My mate it Baptist and from sitting in at his church a bit ...well the main differences are how the churches conduct business ..they have meetings ..and seem a bit more formal than my church and they also have deacons where as we do not...also they do not begin their church with the bringing in of the light like Methodists do and we also end with taking out the light....oh and communion is a little different too..and we have confirmation classes at our church..I do not know if they do...umm oh and the amount of time pastors stay is also different 

also many of these things differ ..depending upon region ...except for one HUGE thing ..that is not so God related....we all love foooooood lol

anyway sorry for the long post ..I started typing and kept thinking of more and more things I wanted to share ^M^ 

hehe around here there is a silly thing between Baptist and Methodist..the grand argument over who eats the most X3


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 26, 2010)

Zaraphayx said:


> lol@ evangelical atheists not seeing how hilariously hypocritical it is.



WTF?!  Who coined _that_ term?  *LOL*

Evangelical:Christian theological view emphasizing personal faith and the authority  of the Bible
Atheism: commonly described as the position that there are no deities. It can  also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Therefore, Evangelical Atheism emphasizes the personal faith in and the authority of Richard Dawkins to reject the idea of (and that there are no) deities.  

Awesome 


BTW...funny pic here *G* Is your housemate an Atheist?


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



HotRodLincoln said:


> I believe in the Lord God, Jesus Christ, I am a strong Methodist, and I always will be.
> I pray every night for my unsaved friends, but I am not one of the Christians who will force The Bible down your throat



There's a book I'm reading now called unChristian for my mother's church library.  she knows I'm 'agnostic' but I provide a viewpoint on what might be the best material for paritioners to read on current events that isn't too biased one way or another, and what might be helpful if they want to talk to someone about God without pissing off strangers/ driving away coworkers/ breaking up friendships, etc.

You should read this book.  It has some really good points.  It took three years to write and was done with a lot of research and interviews to present their findings.  Consider it a thesis on the growing rise of outsiders to the church.

http://www.unchristian.com/

One thing I especially liked, since I am not a christian, is pointing out the fact that it can be insulting to those who are not part of the church to be called 'non-Christian', 'the lost', 'unbelievers', 'seekers', or anything pointing out that they are not part of christianity as their main characteristic.  it dehumanizes them.  To give you an example, I don't consider myself a non-christian.  I consider myself Pagan.  An Atheist will call himself an Atheist, not a lost soul, or an unbeliever.      

I was a part of the church for 20 years, so I've heard every term and then some.  Abandoning the use of labels like unbeliever would be a very good step in dropping the perceived pretentiousness that Christianity has unfortunately fostered and make it more approachable as a faith.   

Think outside the box.  I know you and your fellow believers can do it ^_^


----------



## Lobar (Apr 26, 2010)

CAThulu said:


> WTF?!  Who coined _that_ term?  *LOL*



Fundie Christians, of course.  They love making shit up and then getting angry about it.



CAThulu said:


> BTW...funny pic here *G* Is your housemate an Atheist?



Don't forget about Atheist Barbie!


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 26, 2010)

Lobar said:


> Fundie Christians, of course.  They love making shit up and then getting angry about it.
> 
> Don't forget about Atheist Barbie!




Still wanna know what asshat came up with that bit of nonsense *L*.  My vote goes to pat robertson, of course 

Atheist Barbie rocks!  I want her shirt *G*


----------



## Volkodav (Apr 26, 2010)

I worship Allah. Peace be with him.


----------



## Lobar (Apr 26, 2010)

Clayton said:


> I worship Allah. Peace be with him.



It's "peace be *upon* him," infidel.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 26, 2010)

*LOL*  @ Atheist Barbie.  Awesome.


----------



## Rilvor (Apr 26, 2010)

Men coming at me
Knocking at your front door
Would you like to be free
Would you like to know more
Like a good neighbor
He will be there
As long as he gets it
An equal share
Insurance from God
You're in good hands
A piece of the rock
He understands
Christians aren't perfect
They're only slaves
So they won't have to wait for
Insurance from God
Black ties, white shirts
Little red ten speeds
Kick them with black boots
So they won't have to wait for
Insurance from God
You're in good hands
A piece of the rock
He understands
Christians aren't perfect
They're only slaves
Crucify them
So they won't have to wait for
Insurance from God
Cash in your policy
Wouldn't ya like to be free
I'm the collector of your soul
Wouldn't you like to follow me
Wouldn't you like to be free
Wouldn't you like to know more


----------



## Volkodav (Apr 26, 2010)

Lobar said:


> It's "peace be *upon* him," infidel.



BURN IN HELL


----------



## RohanDaKitty (Apr 26, 2010)

Truth said:


> I don't choose to believe in godâ€™s existence or non-existence. I've not got a definite answer. If he didn't exist, then why are we all here? If he did, why did he bother creating us? Can he see in the future? Who created him? It just ends up with a long string of unanswerable questions.
> 
> ...
> 
> If he didn't; It's back to "Why and how are we here?" There's no definite answer, so I won't choose either. ...



Okay so you're not in either camp. I can dig that... But the whole, if God doesn't exist, Why and how are we here? That makes absolutely no sense to me what-so-ever.

Do people realise that asking "Why?" is ridiculous? Motive, reasoning, these are human inventions and therefore do not apply to the Universe. You cannot apply human psychology to something that is not human, like existance.

We are here. That's all there is to know.


----------



## GraemeLion (Apr 26, 2010)

RohanDaKitty said:


> Okay so you're not in either camp. I can dig that... But the whole, if God doesn't exist, Why and how are we here? That makes absolutely no sense to me what-so-ever.
> 
> Do people realise that asking "Why?" is ridiculous? Motive, reasoning, these are human inventions and therefore do not apply to the Universe. You cannot apply human psychology to something that is not human, like existance.
> 
> We are here. That's all there is to know.



Agreed.

Everyone asks "why are we here, what is our purpose?"

Why do we have to have a purpose?  That's rather vain, isn't it?  I mean, I'm certain the baby that died of cholera in 1394 didn't really have a purpose.   

And lots of others didn't either.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 26, 2010)

RohanDaKitty said:


> Okay so you're not in either camp. I can dig that... But the whole, if God doesn't exist, Why and how are we here? That makes absolutely no sense to me what-so-ever.
> 
> Do people realise that asking "Why?" is ridiculous? Motive, reasoning, these are human inventions and therefore do not apply to the Universe. You cannot apply human psychology to something that is not human, like existance.
> 
> We are here. That's all there is to know.



Good point. Just because we are here on this planet does not necessarily mean there has to be a reason for our existence.


----------



## Truth (Apr 26, 2010)

RohanDaKitty said:


> Okay so you're not in either camp. I can dig that... But the whole, if God doesn't exist, Why and how are we here? That makes absolutely no sense to me what-so-ever.
> 
> Do people realise that asking "Why?" is ridiculous? Motive, reasoning, these are human inventions and therefore do not apply to the Universe. You cannot apply human psychology to something that is not human, like existance.
> 
> We are here. That's all there is to know.



Without belief in god, someone would ask themselves how they came to exist, and after a little thought it becomes unanswerable. But then again, the same could be said with the belief in god with the "why does god exist?" question.

People ask why, because they want information. They want to know. Wouldn't you want to? 

We are here. But I'm not sure it's all to know. It's all we know.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 26, 2010)

Lobar said:


> It's "peace be *upon* him," infidel.


 This phrase is used in reference to the madman, not his cave-hallucination.


----------



## Tewin Follow (Apr 26, 2010)

Truth said:


> Without belief in god, someone would ask themselves how they came to exist, and after a little thought it becomes unanswerable. But then again, the same could be said with the belief in god with the "why does god exist?" question.
> 
> People ask why, because they want information. They want to know. Wouldn't you want to?
> 
> We are here. But I'm not sure it's all to know. It's all we know.



I think some religious people are so frantically opposed to basic science because they fear it will "take away" the "answers" their religion provides.

A non-religious scientist will tell you that all life slowly formed from single-celled organisms, but won't lie and just make up where that life came from.
This is not enough for some people. They would rather have a definate "THIS HAPPENED AND THAT'S THAT" than "we don't know yet, but we are understanding more about our world every day."


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 26, 2010)

Sikhi is a cool religion. It keeps its beliefs to itself without refusing aid to nonbelievers. It originated in the Punjab (NW Indian region), but has lots of members on Vancouver and in the UK. From what little I know, their idea of God (Ram) is a singular being that's more of a force than a specific form.


----------



## Truth (Apr 26, 2010)

Harebelle said:


> I think some religious people are so frantically opposed to basic science because they fear it will "take away" the "answers" their religion provides.
> 
> A non-religious scientist will tell you that all life slowly formed from single-celled organisms, but won't lie and just make up where that life came from.
> This is not enough for some people. They would rather have a definate "THIS HAPPENED AND THAT'S THAT" than "we don't know yet, but we are understanding more about our world every day."



Because I don't know the definite answers, is why I don't have  belief in either side. Where an answer is given, another question will be raised. Which is why I said "I'm not sure it's all to know. It's all  we know. 		"


----------



## Lobar (Apr 26, 2010)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Sikhi is a cool religion. It keeps its beliefs to itself without refusing aid to nonbelievers. It originated in the Punjab (NW Indian region), but has lots of members on Vancouver and in the UK. From what little I know, their idea of God (Ram) is a singular being that's more of a force than a specific form.



If a religion is cool for being the religion that is least incompatible with basic morals and reality, why follow religion at all?


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 26, 2010)

Lobar said:


> If a religion is cool for being the religion that is least incompatible with basic morals and reality, why follow religion at all?


 I really don't know, and I care even less.


----------



## CAThulu (Apr 26, 2010)

Clayton said:


> BURN IN HELL



Nice *slow claps*


----------



## CrazyLee (Apr 28, 2010)

Shaui said:


> I believe in God because he's the only way to be saved.
> 
> Yea, I said it, whether you atheists like it or not.



Saved from what? I'm assuming you mean hell, which I already mentioned my feelings on before. If God is a loving god why damn us to eternal torture.

Then again, I wonder if maybe the fundies are right, and God really is some angry tyrant who destroys all who don't follow him. But if that was the case, then non-believers would have utterly shitty lives, and believers would have good lives, and yet I've seen atheists have great lives and Christians have bad lives.


Here's two interesting facts about Hell:
- Even if you read in the Bible that non-believers will go to Hell, they don't go to hell immediately. According to Revelations, all dead are risen, and then everyone is judged.
- If you believe Revelations (a book that said the end would come within a couple hundred years of Jesus's death, and yet we're still here!), it says that non-believers are cast into the eternal fire to die "the second death" which sounds more like you basically cease to exist, not that you're tormented forever.
- In the Old Testament, the afterlife is called Sheol. Sheol is the Jewish afterlife... the Jews believe that EVERYONE goes to the same place. Eventually the Hebrew Bible (old testament) was translated into Greek, and the place was called Hades, the greek afterlife (where everyone goes). I think that most English bibles mistranslated Hades or Sheol into Hell.

http://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell

This is an article I disagree with fully. It says things like "Our sin does merit hell" and "God is Just thus he sends us to hell because it's just" and "We choose to go to hell". Using passages in the New Testament, passages written by men, who may have been wrong.

In any case I have to get going and may write down my views on the Bible and how it was written by men thus cannot be considered infallible.



xcliber said:


> I believe in science. Quantum physics just seems to make more sense to me.


I'm a man of science and even Quantum Physics can be as confusing and crazy seeming as religion. Plus, certain elements of Physics are taken on faith and roundabout evidence, like Dark Matter (WIMPs), String theory, and certain particles like the Higgs Boson (God particle).


----------



## MichaelFoster (May 2, 2010)

*Re: Coming out to my parents as a furry!*



Shaui said:


> I believe in God because he's the only way to be saved.



That's cute. How old are you? Do your parents know you talk to other people on the internet.


----------



## Ack (May 3, 2010)

Uh, I was raised Catholic. I'm an atheist now. To be honest, the whole idea of a God and heaven and hell used to freak me out, and I wasn't sure I'd want to go to heaven because it sounded awful boring, and since my lunch table was half atheist I was scared about them going to hell (granted, it was the nerd table, and there were maybe five people there). Death would keep me up through half the night, especially after a family member kicked the bucket. A lot of morbid dreams with graves and crosses bursting through people's chests and coffins. 
Anyway, I'm a lot more confident in my beliefs now. I think I might have always been an atheist deep down, but as a kid I'd always let my imagination get the best of me.


----------



## MichaelFoster (May 3, 2010)

Ack said:


> Uh, I was raised Catholic. I'm an atheist now. To be honest, the whole idea of a God and heaven and hell used to freak me out, and I wasn't sure I'd want to go to heaven because it sounded awful boring, and since my lunch table was half atheist I was scared about them going to hell (granted, it was the nerd table, and there were maybe five people there). Death would keep me up through half the night, especially after a family member kicked the bucket. A lot of morbid dreams with graves and crosses bursting through people's chests and coffins.
> Anyway, I'm a lot more confident in my beliefs now. I think I might have always been an atheist deep down, but as a kid I'd always let my imagination get the best of me.



I thought nerds sat by themselves?

Edit: Happy first post!


----------



## Phenom (May 3, 2010)

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" -Karl Marx
No one ever spoke truer words. Religions all have the same purpose to help ppl escape from their day to day struggles, to give ppl hope, and a sense of meaningfulness.
Personally I believe all religions are bull shyt. There is no god, there is no devil, there is no heaven or hell, you don't get reincarnated, and no way in buttfck do you get virgins. life in a sense is pointless. But the experiences you have or will have are definitely worth living for.


----------



## Milo (May 3, 2010)

what creeps me out about christians is the way they talk when they get all biblical... lol. seriously, when you hear someone say things like "god is our salvation. let us rejoice"... it just kinda sounds creepy. like if I were to disagree, he'd rain down lightning and call forth God to smite me...

aha, but I'm just speaking from personal experience listening to these wacko's xD


----------



## MichaelFoster (May 3, 2010)

Milo said:


> what creeps me out about christians is the way they talk when they get all biblical... lol. seriously, when you hear someone say things like "god is our salvation. let us rejoice"... it just kinda sounds creepy. like if I were to disagree, he'd rain down lightning and call forth God to smite me...
> 
> aha, but I'm just speaking from personal experience listening to these wacko's xD



Have you ever played resident evil 4? Cults are creepy! D:<


----------



## TashkentFox (May 3, 2010)

If I HAD to choose a religion I'd choose Buddhism.


----------



## Unsilenced (May 3, 2010)

TashkentFox said:


> If I HAD to choose a religion I'd choose Buddhism.



http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3225


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## Kit H. Ruppell (May 3, 2010)

Sikhi has my respect, but no religion has my allegiance.


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## Jelly (May 3, 2010)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Sikhi has my respect, but no religion has my allegiance.



Why's that?


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