# MegaUpload shut down by US officials; piracy laws



## BRN (Jan 19, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16642369 

Not much more need be said.

 Spreading the word as it happens. No legal battle. No fight. They just walked into the Internet and shut 'er down.


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## Ikrit (Jan 19, 2012)

never used it

don't care


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## Kitutal (Jan 19, 2012)

I was going to upload stuff to there after some trouble with youtube, but then I didn't. Seems it was a good thing too.
Everything slowly gets worse, enjoy it while you can. It's a great world we live in, isn't it.


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## Tycho (Jan 19, 2012)

> Investigators denied a link to recent protests against proposed piracy laws, according to the Wall Street Journal.



Hold on, lemme find my phone so I can call BULLSHIT

I would say "I hope that there is some form of redress" or "This is against some rule somewhere" but the goons responsible for the shutdown don't care about those things to begin with


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## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

Not sure if I should be pissed or not. Just gonna sit, wait, and see what happens next for right now.
Megaupload.net is still there, but the .com is completely gone... oh well, never used it and don't give a fuck now that it's gone.


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## Aidy (Jan 19, 2012)

Their site was crap anyway.


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## Tycho (Jan 19, 2012)

Anyone else ever wonder how the hell it is that there haven't been any, y'know, violent unpleasant things happening to the higher-up members of the RIAA/MPAA? I'm not advocating it or anything, but it's not like people are incapable of violence and haven't wished the MAFIAA harm.  You'd think it had to have happened by now, people who just say "fuck it" and do things the messy way.


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## Recel (Jan 19, 2012)

Weren't you guys against shutting down sites "just because" a day ago?
So if "I didn't like it anyway" than its perfectly ok? Great way to fight something!


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## Cain (Jan 19, 2012)

Shiiiiiiiiiit man.


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## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

Whether the site was crap or not is irrelevant.  It's going to be painted as the next Napster and Limewire, and it's going to be used as justification for pushing SOPA and PIPA forward, or introducing no less draconian alternatives to "crack down on piracy," even though the only violently forceful raiding being done is being done by the government.


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## Dreaming (Jan 19, 2012)

Never heard of it, never used it. I expect to see similar things happening to other ''major'' sites I've never heard of.


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## Kitutal (Jan 19, 2012)

Martin NiemÃ¶ller said:
			
		

> First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> Then they came for the trade unionists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
> ...



Random famous quote I thought was appropriate.


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## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

The FBI's press release.


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## Francis Vixen (Jan 19, 2012)

This is why I wish I was in Germany.

Oh lord, the irony of it all.


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## Cain (Jan 19, 2012)

Dreaming said:


> Never heard of it, never used it. I expect to see similar things happening to other ''major'' sites I've never heard of.


Are you kidding?
MegaUpload is/was one of the biggest, if not _the_ biggest filesharing sites on the internet. Not P2P, but hosted fileshare.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jan 19, 2012)

If they knew anything about the internet, they'd go for P2P filesharing first (somehow).


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## Zenia (Jan 19, 2012)

Hm. I used to use that site sometimes to upload the huge PSD files to send to commission customers if they wanted it. Oh well.


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## Gavrill (Jan 19, 2012)

Noooo my ROMs and giant folders of archived desuchan threads


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## Schwimmwagen (Jan 19, 2012)

Gavrill said:


> Noooo my ROMs and giant folders of archived desuchan threads



I FORGOT HOW MANY OLD PS1 ROMS ARE HOSTED ON THAT SITE

FUCKFUCKFUCK


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## Aetius (Jan 19, 2012)

So...How is catching *real* criminals going FBI?


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## Smelge (Jan 19, 2012)

Fuck. There goes all my old Dwarf Fortress saves.


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## ramsay_baggins (Jan 19, 2012)

GAAAHHHH! They were really good at making sure illegal stuff wasn't even in there! So many people have lost all their backups, it's total BULLSHIT!

I didn't use the site, but I'm so ANGRY! They were only ACCUSED! FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU AMERICA!


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 19, 2012)

For any host they 404 two or three more get founded...


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## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

Crusader Mike said:


> So...How is catching *real* criminals going FBI?


The sad the thing is that most of the time a criminal is caught it's because the criminal was being a dumbass and did something utterly retarded to get themselves caught.


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## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

Recel said:


> Weren't you guys against shutting down sites "just because" a day ago?
> So if "I didn't like it anyway" than its perfectly ok? Great way to fight something!


Damn dude... you're right. They're only starting out small... it's the whole principle of the thing we should be worrying about. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME

Fucking shit Spotify isn't working... I'm seriously starting to worry now :/


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## DW_ (Jan 19, 2012)

What the fucking fuck? As much as I hated MEGAUPLOAD, this is just plain wrong.


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## BRN (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> The FBI's press release.





> two corporations have been charged in the United States with running an international organized criminal enterprise allegedly responsible for massive worldwide online piracy of numerous types of copyrighted works through Megaupload.com


 
Is this for real.


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## Aidy (Jan 19, 2012)

Uh, I thought it got shut down because of some song, not loads of piracy.


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## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

HEY.
Who signed the petition on Google yesterday?
And Reddit, as many people as there were that bitched about it being gone... seems it worked. Just a taste of what being censored forever is like.

@ArielMT AND HOLY HOUNDS OF HELL it's like fucking Nazi Germany on the Internet, are you for reals?


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## Unsilenced (Jan 19, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> They don't need SOPA/PIPA as they can already do this.



Yeah. That kind of makes it... weird that they would do it now as a statement. 

"We can't effectively fight piracy unless we get more power!" 

Well then what the fuck was *that*_*?*_ Are you admitting that it was *ineffective? *


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## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

Luti Kriss said:


> @ArielMT AND HOLY HOUNDS OF HELL it's like fucking Nazi Germany on the Internet, are you for reals?



"Sweet land of liberty" and all, yup.  I ain't got no say at all.

Also, even though the people arrested and charged weren't US citizens or residents, or within US borders, the main site and its authoritative nameserver were in the US.


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## DW_ (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> "Sweet land of liberty" and all, yup.  I ain't got no say at all.
> 
> Also, even though the people arrested and charged weren't US citizens or residents, or within US borders, the main site and its authoritative nameserver were in the US.



Doesn't mean the lack of any fair trial is any less wrong.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jan 19, 2012)

I swear, America is starting to smell a bit like Nazi Germany in ways.


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## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

Applicable


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## LizardKing (Jan 19, 2012)

Megaupload is down but Crapidshare is still going?

There is no justice :c


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## shteev (Jan 19, 2012)

Man, what's with you guys?

"ololo i dont use it olol hurr"

So? What if tommorow YouTube is shut down? What if one of your favourite sites was unplugged? The problem isn't _which_ site goes down, but rather the fact that the U.S. government is able to assert its authority over the Internet.


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## Aidy (Jan 19, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I swear, America is starting to smell a bit like Nazi Germany in ways.



Tbh it reminds me of China, they've got hardons over censorship and shutting everything down without actually attempting to sort it out first.


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## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

Anonymous is not taking too kindly to this news, to put it mildly.

Anonymous is taking credit for bringing down RIAA.org, RIAA.com, MPAA.org, UniversalMusic.com, Justice.gov, and Copyright.gov within two hours of the news breaking.  Rumor has it they're going to take down FBI.gov next, which wouldn't be too wise since that's where the press release is currently hosted.


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Anonymous is not taking too kindly to this news, to put it mildly.
> 
> Anonymous is taking credit for bringing down RIAA.org, RIAA.com, MPAA.org, UniversalMusic.com, Justice.gov, and Copyright.gov within two hours of the news breaking. Rumor has it they're going to take down FBI.gov next, which wouldn't be too wise since that's where the press release is currently hosted.


Yeah they should probably stay away from that.


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## Wreth (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> The FBI's press release.




''Organised criminal enterpise''

Clearly some important people haven't the faintest idea how the internet works, or what ''user uploaded content'' is.


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## Cyril (Jan 19, 2012)

Megaupload wasn't the best of file sharing sites... but it still was useful. Downloaded a crapton of stuff from there over the years :<


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## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

They're gonna go after Mediafire next, just you watch.


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## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

According to Anonymous, Megaupload is back online at a new URL less than five hours after news of the takedown broke: http://megavideo.bz/ - Whether this is real or not (Edit: likely not), it's a statement that neither anti-piracy laws nor extra-jurisdictional enforcement of those laws will stop people from copying and sharing things.

Also, it's interesting that the operators should be charged with piracy because the site does have a convenient DMCA Safe Harbor button, and they haven't been sued like other content sharing hosts have (most notoriously Viacom v. YouTube).


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 19, 2012)

TheDW said:


> Doesn't mean the lack of any fair trial is any less wrong.



You have to arrest someone first, before you can give them a "fair" trial.


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> According to Anonymous, Megaupload is back online at a new URL less than five hours after news of the takedown broke: http://megavideo.bz/ - *Whether this is real or not, it's a statement that neither anti-piracy laws nor extra-jurisdictional enforcement of those laws will stop people from copying and sharing things*.


 Yes, show them how pointless their approach of fighting piracy is!


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## Rai Toku (Jan 19, 2012)

http://rt.com/usa/news/anonymous-doj-universal-sopa-235/

Anonymous has hit the FBI.gov site. A little less than an hour ago, I believe. There's others, but that's the biggest, in their spree of retaliation.

EDIT: I just checked for myself -the FBI's site is still down. Or, at least, it won't load for me.


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## Tycho (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Anonymous is not taking too kindly to this news, to put it mildly.
> 
> Anonymous is taking credit for bringing down RIAA.org, RIAA.com, MPAA.org, UniversalMusic.com, Justice.gov, and Copyright.gov within two hours of the news breaking.  Rumor has it they're going to take down FBI.gov next, which wouldn't be too wise since that's where the press release is currently hosted.



This is amusing, but is it terribly effective?


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## Littlerock (Jan 19, 2012)

Rai Toku said:


> http://rt.com/usa/news/anonymous-doj-universal-sopa-235/
> 
> Anonymous has hit the FBI.gov site. A little less than an hour ago, I believe. There's others, but that's the biggest, in their spree of retaliation.
> 
> EDIT: I just checked for myself -the FBI's site is still down. Or, at least, it won't load for me.



Seconding this, it just keeps timing out.
:3c

Sure feels ddos in here, and I'm happy for that. The government needs to get the idea. Whatever happened to "We the people"?


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## Unsilenced (Jan 19, 2012)

The problem is that people don't realize that this is the work of random citizens. It's going to be framed as if there was some evil cat-stoking mob-boss figure coordinating the attack from his secret bunker in terroristan, not the PR that's needed right now. :\


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## Littlerock (Jan 19, 2012)

Unsilenced said:


> The problem is that people don't realize that this is the work of random citizens. It's going to be framed as if there was some evil cat-stoking mob-boss figure coordinating the attack from his secret bunker in terroristan, not the PR that's needed right now. :\




So if we could get tons of average Janes and Joes to give their faces for, say, poster ads that read "I AM A CRIMINAL" on them, somebody might get the idea?

P.S., there is a cat on my lap right this second, enjoying all of these strokes.


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## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

Ok I hate the US government and SOPA as much as everyone else, but let's calm the fuck down. 
Since I'm too lazy to quote every reply I wanted to refer to, here's the cliff's notes version of my reply:
1- "OMG THIS IS IN REPLY TO THE BLACKOUT" Yes sure because massive FBI operations are planned in one day instead of months.
2- "OMG THEY DONT NEED SOPA TO SHUT DOWN LEGITIMATE SITES ANYMORE" Ok I'm pissed at this and wouldn't have locked it down but fact is Megaupload hosted a bazillion illegal files, probably ignored a bazillion orders to take care of it, and actually made a direct profit from it (they charge you for premium accounts so you can, for example, watch more than 72 minutes of video. What lasts that long? HINT: Movies).
I'm against this, it sucks, blah blah blah, but if it had happened, say, 6 months ago instead of right during the SOPA ordeal, no one would have batted an eyelash. 
3- "OMG NO TRIAL THIS IS NAZI GERMANY PEOPLE" See below



TheDW said:


> Doesn't mean the lack of any fair trial is any less wrong.


So wait are you completely wrong and complaining about imaginary facts, or did the judicial system suddenly get a massive reform specifically for this case in which first you judge someone_ in absentia_ and then arrest them?


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

So, who ya gonna boycott?


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## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

Ghostbusters!


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 19, 2012)

Funny thing is Alicia Keys' husband is apparently the CEO of Megaupload.

And not a single fuck has been given.


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Funny thing is Alicia Keys' husband is apparently the CEO of Megaupload.
> 
> And not a single fuck has been given.


 Who's she?


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## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

Our government is shit, yes, but let's suppose the bill _does_ pass. You only think you care now, but if this shitty bill goes through because our president (whoever that'll be) pussies out and the Internet for real blacks out instead of some dumbass simulation put on by Reddit or some shit, the people will be a lot more vocal than the Internet ever could be. And they will be pissed.


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Luti Kriss said:


> Our government is shit, yes, but let's suppose the bill _does_ pass. You only think you care now, but if this shitty bill goes through because our president (whoever that'll be) pussies out and the Internet for real blacks out, the people will be a lot more vocal than the Internet ever could be. And they will be pissed.


 Riot time?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 19, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Who's she?



[yt]6PHOeXIPNZE[/yt]

This hot little number.


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> [yt]6PHOeXIPNZE[/yt]
> 
> This hot little number.


 I see...


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## Gavrill (Jan 19, 2012)

Now I'm not gonna scream CENSORSHIP BLBLBLBLGGAAH or anything but seriously megaupload kept obviously illegal crap off their site. I mean when you have a P2P system it's going to have the occasional bad egg, but at least megaupload is _moderated.

_It kinda makes me  that people are like DON'T USE IT LOL because I mean what about other p2p or file hosting sites? It's worrisome.


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Is it true that Megaupload is back up or is that a rumor?


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## Kaamos (Jan 19, 2012)

Oh man they shut down MegaPorn too!

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/


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## Antonin Scalia (Jan 19, 2012)

It's funny when people get mad and think that taking down whitehose.gov is effectual yet decry actual protests or subversive action.


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## RTDragon (Jan 19, 2012)

I know this will not be good for many people considering i used megaupload to get pretty rare games that were made with rpg maker.


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## Carnie (Jan 19, 2012)

Corto said:


> Ok I hate the US government and SOPA as much as everyone else, but let's calm the fuck down.
> Since I'm too lazy to quote every reply I wanted to refer to, here's the cliff's notes version of my reply:
> 1- "OMG THIS IS IN REPLY TO THE BLACKOUT" Yes sure because massive FBI operations are planned in one day instead of months.
> 2- "OMG THEY DONT NEED SOPA TO SHUT DOWN LEGITIMATE SITES ANYMORE" Ok I'm pissed at this and wouldn't have locked it down but fact is Megaupload hosted a bazillion illegal files, probably ignored a bazillion orders to take care of it, and actually made a direct profit from it (they charge you for premium accounts so you can, for example, watch more than 72 minutes of video. What lasts that long? HINT: Movies).
> ...



Thank you.
This really isn't all that surprising, though the timing is funny. Maybe people's reactions to this will even turn out to be convenient.
People need to just stop and think for a second.


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## VGmaster9 (Jan 19, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> "I AM A CRIMINAL"



I'm sorry, but seeing that quote made me think of "Hunter Killer" from Fear Factory :c


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## MitchZer0 (Jan 19, 2012)

http://109.236.83.66/

It's fucking back!


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## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Kaamos said:


> Oh man they shut down MegaPorn too!
> 
> http://nooooooooooooooo.com/


 Press the button a bunch of times quickly. It sounds awsome. Or like the dying screams of the Internet. :/


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## Unsilenced (Jan 19, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> So if we could get tons of average Janes and Joes to give their faces for, say, poster ads that read "I AM A CRIMINAL" on them, somebody might get the idea?
> 
> P.S., there is a cat on my lap right this second, enjoying all of these strokes.



There'd certainly be some shock value in mass, public confessions in regards to piracy. 

Numbers, of course, are key, and they're kind of hard to get. 

Also: I meant no disparagement of cats or those who stroke them. :v


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 20, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> Seconding this, it just keeps timing out.
> :3c
> 
> Sure feels ddos in here, and I'm happy for that. The government needs to get the idea. *Whatever happened to "We the people"?*



I'd say apathy happened.


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

Many care and are the very opposite of apathetic, they just got no money to create a lobby for the disenfranchised.


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## TechnoGypsy (Jan 20, 2012)

MitchZer0 said:


> http://109.236.83.66/
> 
> It's fucking back!


YES!
IT'S BACK!

I KNEW THEY WOULDN'T STAY DOWN FOR LONG!!!


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## TechnoGypsy (Jan 20, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9573/mzida.jpg


That's a good idea, but it's going to take a lot of effort to get enough people doing it.


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## Unsilenced (Jan 20, 2012)

I'll be doing it. Thinking about ways to spread the word though, because it will really do all of jack shit unless it's big.


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Many care and are the very opposite of apathetic, *they just got no money to create a lobby for the disenfranchised*.



Hmmm... yes, there is that.  Brings it all back to the "But I'm just one person" argument.  Even though one person could be the difference between winning or losing a war.  Heh, this is also why politicians and those in charge happen to be rich.  They can afford to make noise.  And make it loud enough to drown out the "poorer" voices.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9573/mzida.jpg



The irony of this is that people are trying to attack a companies bottom line, but "black" is a good term financially speaking.

Should be "Red March."


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## Unsilenced (Jan 20, 2012)

I could put up physical fliers, even though that one isn't very printable (there'd be white margines.)


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

Roose Hurro said:


> Brings it all back to the "But I'm just one person" argument.


More like the "But I don't have some millions lying around to make Congressmen/Senators/Presidents dance to my tune" argument.

Hell, if you would unite an entire county of disenfranchised they wouldn't have the sufficient financial weight.


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## Unsilenced (Jan 20, 2012)

I was going to just say fuck it and print it anyways, but then I realized that would completely destroy my ink cartridge, so I flipped it.


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## Zoetrope (Jan 20, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9573/mzida.jpg



To comply with this I will have to change... nothing.


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## CerbrusNL (Jan 20, 2012)

So, what's next?
Rapidshare?
Dropbox?
Google docs?
Youtube?

I wonder how far they'll go, and if they can even justify taking down those sites in court.
The press release is jus silly, though. They're way too eager to add a "criminal" prefix to anything.


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## Flippy (Jan 20, 2012)

I just sent a fun filled email to my district's senator to help stop PIPA & SOPA ...now time for bed.


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## kobuzero (Jan 20, 2012)

I used that thing all the damn time! Fuck the government.


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## Kitutal (Jan 20, 2012)

So, this Black March thing, would it help to do that in other countries too, or is it just the US?
I can print some posters out and stick them up around the university if it would help.


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## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

MitchZer0 said:


> http://109.236.83.66/
> 
> It's fucking back!



The WOT scorecard says that it's a fake copy.  Rumor has it that the link I posted earlier is a fake copy as well.


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## Dragonfurry (Jan 20, 2012)

Well that sucks. I kinda liked that site. Anyways I think that the government will use this takedown as a excuse/case file to put the SOPA and PIPA bills to vote alot faster.


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## triage (Jan 20, 2012)

It's a good thing I used Mediafire.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 20, 2012)

How awesome is this..
Not at all that's how.


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## CerbrusNL (Jan 20, 2012)

MitchZer0 said:


> http://109.236.83.66/
> 
> It's fucking back!



Just take a look at the load of syntax mistakes on there.
It's a fake by someone that has a very limited grasp of the English language. Even I can see that.


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## MitchZer0 (Jan 20, 2012)

About that link... 

Turns out I'm a fucking idiot and I'll be raped in jail daily for 10 years soon...


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## Dragonfurry (Jan 20, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> I don't know about other countries, but I guess that could help.
> 
> Also no one shop at Walmart, they're a SOPA supporter.



Well then I guess I wont be getting stuff at low prices at walmart then. :V


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## Kaamos (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't shop at Walmart anyway, and for Black March the only thing I'd have to try really hard to change is not buying any video games or music, which I guess I can put off for a month...


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 20, 2012)

I'll just post this here:
http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/19/megaupload-indictment/

Hereâ€™s the full list of seized goods, not counting bank accounts:

    2010 Maserati GranCabrio, VIN ZAMKM45B000051328, License Plate No. â€œM-FB 212â€ or â€œDH-GC 470â€, registered to FINN BATATO;
    2009 Mercedes-Benz E500 Coupe, VIN WDD20737225019582, License Plate No. â€œFEG690â€;
    2005 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM, VIN WDB2093422F165517, License Plate No. â€œGOODâ€;
    2004 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG 5.5L Kompressor, VIN WDB2093422F166073, License Plate No. â€œEVILâ€;
    2010 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG L, VIN WDD2211792A324354, License Plate No. â€œCEOâ€;
    2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom Drop Head Coupe, VIN SCA2D68096UH07049; License Plate No. â€œGODâ€;
    2010 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG, VIN WDD2120772A103834, License Plate No. â€œSTONEDâ€;
    2010 Mini Cooper S Coupe, VIN WMWZG32000TZ03651, License Plate No. â€œVâ€;
    2010 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG, VIN WDC1641772A608055, License Plate No. â€œGUILTYâ€;
    2007 Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG, VIN WDD2163792A025130, License Plate No. â€œKIMCOMâ€;
    2009 Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG, VIN WDC1641772A542449, License Plate No. â€œMAFIAâ€;
    2010 Toyota Vellfire, VIN 7AT0H65MX11041670, License Plate Nos. â€œWOWâ€ or â€œ7â€;
    2011 Mercedes-Benz G55 AMG, VIN WDB4632702X193395, License Plate Nos. â€œPOLICEâ€ or â€œGDS672â€;
    2011 Toyota Hilux, VIN MR0FZ29G001599926, License Plate No. â€œFSN455â€;
    Harley Davidson Motorcycle, VIN 1HD1HPH3XBC803936, License Plate No. â€œ36YEDâ€;
    2010 Mercedes-Benz CL63 AMG, VIN WDD2163742A026653, License Plate No. â€œHACKERâ€;
    2005 Mercedes-Benz A170, VIN WDD1690322J184595, License Plate No. â€œFUR252â€;
    2005 Mercedes-Benz ML500, VIN WDC1641752A026107, License Plate No. DFF816;
    Fiberglass sculpture, imported from the United Kingdom with Entry No. 83023712;
    1957 Cadillac El Dorado, VIN 5770137596;
    2010 Sea-Doo GTX Jet Ski, VIN YDV03103E010;
    1959 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible, VIN 59F115669;
    Von Dutch Kustom Motor Bike, VIN 1H9S14955BB451257;
    2006 Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM, VIN WDB2094421T067269;
    2010 Mini Cooper S Coupe, VIN WMWZG32000TZ03648 License Plate No. â€œTâ€;
    1989 Lamborghini LM002, VIN ZA9LU45AXKLA12158, License Plate No. â€œFRP358â€
    2011 Mercedes-Benz ML63, VIN 4JGBB7HB0BA666219;
    Samsung 820DXN 82â€ LCD TV;
    Samsung 820DXN 82â€ LCD TV;
    Samsung 820DXN 82â€ LCD TV;
    Devon Works LLC, Tread #1 time piece;
    Artwork, In High Spirits, Olaf Mueller photos from The Cat Street Gallery;
    Sharp 108â€ LCD Display TV;
    Sharp 108â€ LCD Display TV;
    Sony PMW-F3K Camera S/N 0200231;
    Sony PMW-F3K Camera S/N 0200561;
    Artwork, Predator Statue;
    Artwork, Christian Colin;
    Artwork, Anonymous Hooded Sculpture;
    2009 Mercedes-Benz ML350 CDI 4MATIC Off-Roader;
    Sharp LC-65XS1M 65â€ LCD TV;
    Sharp LC-65XS1M 65â€ LCD TV;
    TVLogic 56â€ LUM56W TV;
    Sixty (60) Dell R710 computer servers.


----------



## Koronikov (Jan 20, 2012)

has anyone even said anything about anonymous counter attack to this? 
i lost count of the servers hacked and sites killed


----------



## Leafblower29 (Jan 20, 2012)

They just did this to show that they don't need SOPA and PIPA nd that we're probably just wasting our time.


----------



## Riyeko (Jan 20, 2012)

Good lord.

What a mess, i heard this yesterday when i was driving my kids to school or when i was coming home from the store.
What crap.

Seriously govt, get your heads out of your asses and please stop behaving like this is China.

I swear, SOPA/PIPA and anything else thats related or remotely connected to it, goes through, youre going to start seeing CENSORED on everything around the internet.
There would be so many sites shut down... think of it.
4chan would be gone, craigslist might go down, reddit, etc etc.

What crap.

I dont use megaupload much, but I at least understand that the shit behind them closing the site down is CRAP.


----------



## Tycho (Jan 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'll just post this here:
> http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/19/megaupload-indictment/
> 
> Hereâ€™s the full list of seized goods, not counting bank accounts:



Livin' large.  Dayum.

HE HAS SHITLOADS OF EXPENSIVE THINGS, HE CLEARLY MUST BE A CRIMINAL

OR A MEMBER OF THE RIAA/MPAA, SAME THING REALLY

I never did understand why people would buy a bazillion cars, but w/e



Koronikov said:


> has anyone even said anything about anonymous counter attack to this?
> i lost count of the servers hacked and sites killed



Put a smile on my face when I heard about it.


----------



## Teal (Jan 20, 2012)

Yup, thanks Anon. You remember that people, you censor our Internet they'll be after you.


----------



## Tycho (Jan 20, 2012)

just noticed, '59 Caddy

ew.


----------



## Namba (Jan 20, 2012)

Leafblower29 said:


> They just did this to show that they don't need SOPA and PIPA nd that we're probably just wasting our time.


That's exactly it. Discouragement because they're a bunch of overgrown five-year-olds who will have their way and they'll sure as shit show us that they can and _will_ censor the Internet.


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'll just post this here:
> http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/19/megaupload-indictment/
> 
> Hereâ€™s the full list of seized goods, not counting bank accounts:



So you _can _â€‹download a car!


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 20, 2012)

Luti Kriss said:


> That's exactly it. Discouragement because they're a bunch of overgrown five-year-olds who will have their way and they'll sure as shit show us that they can and _will_ censor the Internet.



Well there is a technical difference here. The reason SOPA doesn't apply is because MegaUpload hosts some of its stuff in the US...Virginia. So it falls under US jurisdiction

SOPA is designed to block sites that don't have US jurisdiction. It takes it a step further by actually shutting down a site, blocking advertisers etc...

This one just basically shut down the company for not following Safe Harbor laws that actually help protect their site. It's the courts to decide if they did enough to comply. If they willfully ignored it...well then...


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well there is a technical difference here. The reason SOPA doesn't apply is because MegaUpload hosts some of its stuff in the US...Virginia. So it falls under US jurisdiction
> 
> SOPA is designed to block sites that don't have US jurisdiction. It takes it a step further by actually shutting down a site, blocking advertisers etc...
> 
> This one just basically shut down the company for not following Safe Harbor laws that actually help protect their site. It's the courts to decide if they did enough to comply. If they willfully ignored it...well then...



I'm still wondering how the arrests were justified and whether or not they'll actually be extradited to the US for trial, despite none of them apparently breaking US law within US jurisdiction.  We would never stand for an American citizen who never left American soil being shipped to, say, Iran to be tried for breaking a foreign law, but it's somehow all right when the tables are turned?


----------



## Recel (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I'm still wondering how the arrests were justified and whether or not they'll actually be extradited to the US for trial, despite none of them apparently breaking US law within US jurisdiction.  We would never stand for an American citizen who never left American soil being shipped to, say, Iran to be tried for breaking a foreign law, but it's somehow all right when the tables are turned?



Double standards all the waaaay! :V


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

Recel said:


> Double standards all the waaaay! :V



Such an enviable example we're setting for the world, no? :V


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/why-the-feds-smashed-megaupload.ars 

Shady, to say the least.  

Oh, and I refer to the US authorities.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I'm still wondering how the arrests were justified and whether or not they'll actually be extradited to the US for trial, despite none of them apparently breaking US law within US jurisdiction.  We would never stand for an American citizen who never left American soil being shipped to, say, Iran to be tried for breaking a foreign law, but it's somehow all right when the tables are turned?



Though the FBI is taking credit, it appears this is more of an international effort, with the US taking charge in the matter.

I realize I've mentioned Iran a bit more than usual at this point, so likely this will be the last time I bring it up, lest I give off the air of being obsessed, but the primary difference here is that this take down is being done with international support and giving the defendants the ability to defend themselves as opposed the US waiting for these guys to visit the country and then hunting them down and forcing a confession.

Also, at least Dotcom himself isn't new to legal issues.  He's been convicted of credit card fraud, computer fraud, insider trading, and embezzlement.  Not saying those convictions means he's guilty here, but we are dealing with someone who's known internationally for these kinds of shenanigans.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

I wouldn't call "being forced by the US to do their bidding against their will" necessarily "international support."

The difference between the Iran and the US is that the former hasn't got enough bucks to pull such stunts.


----------



## Namba (Jan 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well there is a technical difference here. The reason SOPA doesn't apply is because MegaUpload hosts some of its stuff in the US...Virginia. So it falls under US jurisdiction
> 
> SOPA is designed to block sites that don't have US jurisdiction. It takes it a step further by actually shutting down a site, blocking advertisers etc...
> 
> This one just basically shut down the company for not following Safe Harbor laws that actually help protect their site. It's the courts to decide if they did enough to comply. If they willfully ignored it...well then...


Oh okay. Gotcha. Meaning this is a somewhat separate issue.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Though the FBI is taking credit, it appears this is more of an international effort, with the US taking charge in the matter.
> 
> I realize I've mentioned Iran a bit more than usual at this point, so likely this will be the last time I bring it up, lest I give off the air of being obsessed, but the primary difference here is that this take down is being done with international support and giving the defendants the ability to defend themselves as opposed the US waiting for these guys to visit the country and then hunting them down and forcing a confession.
> 
> Also, at least Dotcom himself isn't new to legal issues.  He's been convicted of credit card fraud, computer fraud, insider trading, and embezzlement.  Not saying those convictions means he's guilty here, but we are dealing with someone who's known internationally for these kinds of shenanigans.



I chose Iran because it was freshest in our minds, thanks to your good thread about it.

And although the arrest is through police force cooperation, the US is currently trying to extradite the arrested for trial in the US as opposed to trial in the countries where they were arrested.  I wouldn't have a problem at all if they were tried in their nations of residence under those nations' laws instead.  Edit: Assuming, of course, that what they're accused of are actually crimes as the relevant laws define them, not as US law defines them.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I chose Iran because it was freshest in our minds, thanks to your good thread about it.



Not one of my better ideas, I'll admit.



> And although the arrest is through police force cooperation, the US is currently trying to extradite the arrested for trial in the US as opposed to trial in the countries where they were arrested.  I wouldn't have a problem at all if they were tried in their nations of residence under those nations' laws instead.  Edit: Assuming, of course, that what they're accused of are actually crimes as the relevant laws define them, not as US law defines them.



This isn't an area I'm familiar with and it's not something I'm finding easily, but I'm wondering if it has something to do with where the domain name was registered, where the US could claim jurisdiction on this.  I remember reading something saying the servers are based in Hong Kong, so the only way I think the FBI would be able to claim jurisdiction and be able to try them in a federal court in Virginia would be if the domain is registered in the US.

Regardless this may set a bit of a precedent on how internet copyright claims can be tried or where jurisdiction can be held.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> This isn't an area I'm familiar with and it's not something I'm finding easily, but I'm wondering if it has something to do with where the domain name was registered, where the US could claim jurisdiction on this.  I remember reading something saying the servers are based in Hong Kong, so the only way I think the FBI would be able to claim jurisdiction and be able to try them in a federal court in Virginia would be if the domain is registered in the US.
> 
> Regardless this may set a bit of a precedent on how internet copyright claims can be tried or where jurisdiction can be held.



It is an example of the global nature of the Internet.  Megaupload's servers are scattered all over the world, but the landing page was served by a server in the US, and the DNS server acting as the start of authority (SOA) for megaupload.com was also in the US.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> It is an example of the global nature of the Internet.  Megaupload's servers are scattered all over the world, but the landing page was served by a server in the US, and the DNS server acting as the start of authority (SOA) for megaupload.com was also in the US.



Well there you go then.  I also do think this is the global nature of our society in general though.  Jurisdiction for civil cases I know for a fact are very lax when it comes to location of jurisdiction, and usually the vaguest of means have allowed US citizens to be sued in European countries where things like libel and slander are treated much more strict than they are here.

Now obviously there's still the argument of whether or not having the DNS server in the US qualifies the FBI having jurisdiction on the case, but it's certainly a fair argument for why they'd be able to.  I'd think if a businessman who was a citizen of the US conducted his business in Canada, he'd still have to abide by Canada's business/labor/copyright laws.  Rupert Murdoch is a US Citizen but was still investigated and brought before British Parliament since he owns News of the World and what with the whole phone hacking scandal there.


----------



## Corto (Jan 20, 2012)

I do think it clearly qualifies it. I mean, if you went by "where the server is located", you'd have basically a world wide jurisdiction to trial these guys, MU servers were all over the place. The main one (domain, DNS, whatever) was located in the US, therefore it must adhere to US laws. It broke those laws, so it's considered breaking a US law in US territory, which usually is enough grounds to extradite/locally judge someone (if an extradition treaty exists). It's a crude example, but from a purely procedure-related point of view, it's similar to, say, an Aussie going to the US on vacation, killing someone, and then going back to Australia. Except in this case the MU staff never needed to physically set foot on the US to break their laws.

I repeat, I'm not defending the US blindly and I'm quite upset at this as well, but lots of people are complaining without understanding how justice works at all (same as the guys yelling about how they were arrested before trial). The reasoning behind the arrests beside, this is no different than, say, an international operation to arrest a pedophile that sold kid sex slaves to US based clients. It's an US law being broken in US territory (if US courts deem that their server/domain being based there is enough), the culprits were abroad so an international operation was setup (once again, nothing new. This is everyday stuff), and extradition treaties exist with those nations so the US can ask to have them extradited (although I hope they aren't. Depending on each treaty, they may be eligible to be judged in their home countries). It's not the US shitting all over another nation's sovereignity, it's how all international operations work. The funny part is that, since the internet now allows us to comfortably break other nation's laws from out homes, the culprits never even needed to go to the US in the first place.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

While I recognize the main Web server's location as legitimate justification for the DOJ shutting down access to the main Web server and seizing its equipment, I don't recognize the main Web server's location as legitimate justification for the DOJ essentially performing extranational arrests and extraditions, with or without the help of sovereign governments.  Also troubling, the Department of State is less involved than the Department of Justice, despite all the people arrested being foreign.


----------



## GingerM (Jan 20, 2012)

While I don't know the specifics of what triggered the Megauploads shutdown, something I heard discussed on the local radio (CBC) yesterday intrigued me as far as the question of piracy is concerned. Disclaimer - this is me paraphrasing a discussion I heard as best as I remember it, and so far as I know, neither the host nor the guest are lawyers, though the guest works in the Canadian publishing industry. It was pointed out that laws on things such as copyright differ from one nation to another, even with those nations signatory to the Berne Convention on copyright. The specific example used was the works of Ernest Hemmingway. In Canada, those works are now coming into the public domain, because Canadian copyright law provides a lesser period of protection (though it meets the requirements of the Berne Convention) than US copyright. So if someone in Canada were to upload the text of one of his books to a server, has that person broken the law? Yes in the US, no in Canada. It gets even murkier once you start asking "where is the server located", or "is the domain name a (US) domestic one (i.e., a .com domain)?" There are quite a few Canadian web services that host on servers in Canada yet have .com domain names and would therefore be considered "domestic" under the definition used in SOPA.

This opens the possibility of someone posting something which is in fact legally public domain in one jurisdiction yet the US demanding extradition because it's not public domain in the US. Then there's the other side of the question - if a resident of the US accesses a server located outside the US and views or downloads that public-domain-in-that-country content, have they committed piracy? This is one of many, many reasons why SOPA is a poor bill. I am willing, Pollyanna that I am, to presume that US legislators are not inherently malevolent, but mere ignorance of how the net works and the fact that it is an information system that transcends national boundaries means they must consider the question of how copyright and trademark may be different in different nations and that what may be an infringement in the US can still be not a crime. The alternative is that web hosters everywhere will have to research and be aware of copyright and trademark laws not just in their own country but in other countries. The legal ramifications of that are just incredibly complex.


----------



## ADF (Jan 20, 2012)

One of my subscriptions posted this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ

Essentially he's suggesting they will use MegaUploads database to arrest their users.


----------



## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

Thing that annoys me most about this is that most of the GTA IV Graphics mods that I use were hosted on MegaUpload. Fucks sake >:c


----------



## Teal (Jan 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> One of my subscriptions posted this.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ
> 
> Essentially he's suggesting they will use MegaUploads database to arrest their users.


 That'd be a fuckton of people to arrest.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> One of my subscriptions posted this.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tD1yaE0GfQ
> 
> Essentially he's suggesting they will use MegaUploads database to arrest their users.



Not buying it.  Considering the amount of backlog we already have in this country in court cases and the amount of money that's bound to be lost by prosecuting, then dealing with appeals and so on, the US government can't reasonably prosecute even a quarter of those people who've used MegaUpload in the past.

It's deterred the RIAA in the past.


----------



## ADF (Jan 20, 2012)

I doubt they'd arrest every instance of piracy on their system, but a couple of big illegal distributors; maybe.


----------



## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> I doubt they'd arrest every instance of piracy on their system, but a couple of big illegal distributors; maybe.



Who the hell would use MegaUpload for piracy though? There's much better sites if you want to do illegal filesharing.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Jan 20, 2012)

Tycho said:


> I never did understand why people would buy a bazillion cars, but w/e



http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/

Go to the above link and enjoy... perhaps, after you're done, you'll understand.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

Aidy70060 said:


> Who the hell would use MegaUpload for piracy though? There's much better sites if you want to do illegal filesharing.



I'd assume it wouldn't be some much about the people who've downloaded stuff from MegaUpload so much as the people who've uploaded to the site.  And there was a shit load.


----------



## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I'd assume it wouldn't be some much about the people who've downloaded stuff from MegaUpload so much as the people who've uploaded to the site.  And there was a shit load.



I never really saw it, I never uploaded there really either so I'm not familiar with how they upload there. Well they've tried this 'LETS ARREST ALL THE PIRATES' shit before and only got a few.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

Aidy70060 said:


> I never really saw it, I never uploaded there really either so I'm not familiar with how they upload there. Well they've tried this 'LETS ARREST ALL THE PIRATES' shit before and only got a few.



Well you gotta remember they were also responsible for MegaVideo as well.  There were a TON of movies, animes, tv shows, and so on uploaded for streaming on that site, including bootlegged copies of movies which hadn't even been released yet.  I remember watching X-Men Origins: Wolverine on there, but it was a post-production copy that hadn't finished all the CGI work yet.


----------



## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Well you gotta remember they were also responsible for MegaVideo as well.  There were a TON of movies, animes, tv shows, and so on uploaded for streaming on that site, including bootlegged copies of movies which hadn't even been released yet.  I remember watching X-Men Origins: Wolverine on there, but it was a post-production copy that hadn't finished all the CGI work yet.



That's true I suppose. Well fair enough but I don't think it was necessary to take down the entire site and basically hit the company, it's not their fault entirely.


----------



## MitchZer0 (Jan 20, 2012)

Went on Megaupload and saw that the front page was censored.

I hate America...


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

Aidy70060 said:


> That's true I suppose. Well fair enough but I don't think it was necessary to take down the entire site and basically hit the company, it's not their fault entirely.



Well not necessarily.  The FBI claims to have seized e-mails and internal documents which suggests that MegaUpload was very aware of how people were using their site for pirating purposes.  They also were defiant when red flags were brought to their attention.  Apparently any video that was flagged for copyright infringement would still remain on their site but with a different URL or at least the video wouldn't show up in searches, but it was still hosted on the site and could be accessed directly from the URL.

From what I've seen, the evidence would suggest that MegaUpload was either complacent or downright encouraging pirated content on their site while offering people subscriptions to deliver all files, including those pirated, at faster speeds and better quality for a fee.


----------



## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Well not necessarily.  The FBI claims to have seized e-mails and internal documents which suggests that MegaUpload was very aware of how people were using their site for pirating purposes.  They also were defiant when red flags were brought to their attention.  Apparently any video that was flagged for copyright infringement would still remain on their site but with a different URL or at least the video wouldn't show up in searches, but it was still hosted on the site and could be accessed directly from the URL.
> 
> From what I've seen, the evidence would suggest that MegaUpload was either complacent or downright encouraging pirated content on their site while offering people subscriptions to deliver all files, including those pirated, at faster speeds and better quality for a fee.



Well in that case they're idiots. Well, no wonder, they're based in Hong Kong, typical :v


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 20, 2012)

Aidy70060 said:


> That's true I suppose. Well fair enough but I don't think it was necessary to take down the entire site and basically hit the company, it's not their fault entirely.



Well, they were making pretty good money off of the whole thing, more so by allowing pirated material. Had it been a free-for-all usage site, the take-down might not have been so dramatic, but then again, the userbase might have been a bit more shit if it were totally free.

Ninja'd as _fuck._


----------



## Vukasin (Jan 20, 2012)

Where do I watch adventure time now?


----------



## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

Vukasin said:


> Where do I watch adventure time now?



On the TV.


----------



## Vukasin (Jan 20, 2012)

Aidy70060 said:


> On the TV.



Doesn't air here.


----------



## ADF (Jan 20, 2012)

I watched a video that made a good point.

Is there any point in getting worked up about SOPA and indefinite detention and so on, when the US is effectively just passing laws to legitimize what they are already doing? MegaUpload was taken down SOPA style, regardless of the fact that it was shelved. The US government is clearly going to do whatever it wants, regardless of if they pass these bills or not.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> I watched a video that made a good point.
> 
> Is there any point in getting worked up about SOPA and indefinite detention and so on, when the US is effectively just passing laws to legitimize what they are already doing? MegaUpload was taken down SOPA style, regardless of the fact that it was shelved. The US government is clearly going to do whatever it wants, regardless of if they pass these bills or not.



Well the difference here is that SOPA would have been much more far reaching and broad in what it defines content worthy of being blacked out and would only really sites which don't have any affiliation with the US by virtue of having or renting servers within our boarders.  (Or maybe that's just PIPA, Jesus I've been trying to flush this shit out of my head).

Again, the FBI is likely claiming they have jurisdiction here because of the fact that the DNS server for MegaUpload is based in the US and we already have anti-piracy laws on the books.  MegaUpload is being considered liable and not being given the benefit of a Safe Harbor like You Tube is because of all the things I said to Aidy.  The fact that they've internally shown some level of support for pirated content on their site and did not properly handle copyright claims while making money.

Under SOPA, sites like VideoBB or other foreign sites which link to or host pirated content wouldn't necessarily have legal action brought against them, but the US would black list them and therefore deny the American public from being able to access those sites.

Also fuck TAA and his melodrama.


----------



## Namba (Jan 20, 2012)

Vukasin said:


> Where do I watch adventure time now?


Pffff Regular Show all the way.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Well you gotta remember they were also responsible for MegaVideo as well.  There were a TON of movies, animes, tv shows, and so on uploaded for streaming on that site, including bootlegged copies of movies which hadn't even been released yet.  *I remember watching X-Men Origins: Wolverine on there, but it was a post-production copy that hadn't finished all the CGI work yet.*



I can't be the only one who noticed this.  How do pre-releases, screener copies, and unfinished copies even become available for download anywhere in the world due to piracy?  I am drawing a complete blank on any source not directly tied to the MPAA and member companies themselves.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I can't be the only one who noticed this.  How do pre-releases, screener copies, and unfinished copies even become available for download anywhere in the world due to piracy?  I am drawing a complete blank on any source not directly tied to the MPAA and member companies themselves.



Someone on the animating team could have leaked it perhaps? Or even a long-shot, a friend of someone on the animating team nicked a copy of the rough file he/she was working on when they weren't looking.

Stranger things have happened, but it is a bit suspicious all the same.


----------



## Namba (Jan 20, 2012)

Aidy70060 said:


> Thing that annoys me most about this is that most of the GTA IV Graphics mods that I use were hosted on MegaUpload. Fucks sake >:c


Make your own :V


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> Someone on the animating team could have leaked it perhaps? Or even a long-shot, a friend of someone on the animating team nicked a copy of the rough file he/she was working on when they weren't looking.
> 
> Stranger things have happened, but it is a bit suspicious all the same.



But that's only one example of many.  It's not an isolated or infrequent thing.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I can't be the only one who noticed this.  How do pre-releases, screener copies, and unfinished copies even become available for download anywhere in the world due to piracy?*  I am drawing a complete blank on any source not directly tied to the MPAA and member companies themselves*.


Maybe they're hypocrites and pirate as well, while putting forth such laws?


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Maybe they're hypocrites and pirate as well, while putting forth such laws?



Mike Mozart of Jeepers Media agrees and used pages cached by the Internet Archive to illustrate/prove it.

Also, just in case a false takedown kills the description's links:
http://onecandleinthedark.blogspot.com/
http://www.filmon.com/cbsyousuck/ (redirect of http://www.cbsyousuck.com/)


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I can't be the only one who noticed this.  How do pre-releases, screener copies, and unfinished copies even become available for download anywhere in the world due to piracy?  I am drawing a complete blank on any source not directly tied to the MPAA and member companies themselves.



I wish I knew.

I've seen plenty of bootlegged copies with the subtext that the copy you're watching is for internal use only and not to be distributed.  Same thing with post-production rough cuts.

I don't know if you want to go as far as call it possible corporate espionage or what.  I wouldn't think it's got to do with members of the MPAA, but much like how Apple's had issues with employees walking out with experimental versions of phones, I guess we shouldn't be too shocked at the prospect that someone on the edit team/an intern/or pretty much any of the legion of people working on that film in post-production could have exported the unfinished rough cut or an internal use copy of a film and post it online.  But taking that content which is still specifically owned by a media company, in my example it'd be 20th Century Fox, and then distributing it online would qualify it as an act of piracy I believe.

Project Mayhem is in full GO GO GO!!!!!! mode.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 20, 2012)

Anonymous has started attacks against the companies and government agencies responsible.  They took down the department of justice for a bit, but it's back up; however http://universalmusic.com is down and still down.


----------



## veeno (Jan 20, 2012)

God damnit.


----------



## Nineteen-TwentySeven (Jan 20, 2012)

Here we go again, the US trying to be the world police...


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 20, 2012)

Nineteen-TwentySeven said:


> Here we go again, the US trying to be the world police...


I think somebody in government watched team america and thought, "hey why can't we make a world police anyhow?"


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 20, 2012)

Let's just continue to ignore the fact that MegaUpload conducted business in the US and is therefore subject to US laws, just as any foreign business would be subject to laws of a given country operations of theirs are conducted.

Being melodramatic is much better than little details called "facts."


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 20, 2012)

Seriously guys, this one is the owners of Megaupload at fault here, they legitamately did break US laws while located in the US. Sure it's a huge letdown, and tons of people lost valuable information, but it was bound to happen, SOPA or not.

Pirate Bay gets away with what they do because they are technically not breaking any laws where their servers are located. You can read more about that here.
Now, if the US government decided to attack Pirate Bay, _then _we'd have a 'world police' issue on our hands.


Just playing the Devil's advocate for a moment here.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> Seriously guys, this one is the owners of Megaupload at fault here, they legitamately did break US laws while located in the US. Sure it's a huge letdown, and tons of people lost valuable information, but it was bound to happen, SOPA or not.
> 
> Pirate Bay gets away with what they do because they are technically not breaking any laws where their servers are located. You can read more about that here.
> *Now, if the US government decided to attack Pirate Bay, then we'd have a 'world police' issue on our hands.*
> ...



That actually did happen in a slightly indirect way in 2006.  The MPAA convinced the government of Sweden to raid the Pirate Bay and seize their servers.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 21, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> That actually did happen in a slightly indirect way in 2006.  The MPAA convinced the government of Sweden to raid the Pirate Bay and seize their servers.



And they were back up and running within three days :3c


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I can't be the only one who noticed this.  How do pre-releases, screener copies, and unfinished copies even become available for download anywhere in the world due to piracy?  I am drawing a complete blank on any source not directly tied to the MPAA and member companies themselves.



I know it's been pretty much said, but it's because its someone in the industry/involved in the industry doing it. Screeners are given to those who often do movie reviews or promotions, so instead of having to go to the theater they get a screener. Sometimes someone loans the screener to someone in their family/within their circle and...well there you go. It's not always the higher ups, but other times it is. Like the case of Wolverine it was the effects studio that leaked it. I never understood though why someone would leak screeners when usually those things have a watermark that leads back to the individual...but it happens. They probably have someone recode it to get rid of the watermark.

When I worked in Anipike we'd get a lot of free material so that we'd do reviews. I'd not be surprised if some of the people doing editorial reviews made copies and later leaked them elsewhere. Ethically speaking I have to have faith that the staff didn't - but I know it happens. With the dotcom and journals, blogs giving more word of mouth and reviews, I'm sure more and more screeners have gone out to generate buzz.

Even Amazon Vine we'd get some pre-release or unfinished copies of music and such. We're asked not to resell and pirate it - but I've seen it happen. It's pretty sad. It's like all they do is ask that give an honest review for 75% of what you take from Amazon...but some people still gotta be slimes and look for some internet fame or a quick buck.


----------



## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

GingerM said:


> Then there's the other side of the question - if a resident of the US accesses a server located outside the US and views or downloads that public-domain-in-that-country content, have they committed piracy?


Well yeah that's not even part of the discussion. He's an US citizen, in US soil, breaking US law. Pretty clear cut right there.

Keep in mind there's two "criminals" here: He who uploads, and he who pirates. You just need to ask yourself two things: 1) Are they breaking US law? Pretty obvious the case here is yes. 2) Are they under US jurisdiction (by the usual rules of "happens in US soil" and, as subsidiary, "is being committed by an US citizen")? Well, in the case of the uploader, the answer is "yes", with the servers in US territory they are subject to those laws (the same way a, for example, Aldi supermarket subsidiary in the US would be subject to US law, not German ones), and with the downloader, your example makes it pretty clear: He's in the US, no reason he shouldn't adhere to it's laws.

I mean, if you want to stretch it, the jurisdiction over the uploader may be debatable. The jurisdiction over the downloader is not even open to discussion. 


Also yes, if anyone here complains about this being "OMG the US playing world police with no respect for boarders" again, I'm having them read a book about how the law works and won't allow them to post until they answer me an exam on the subject.


----------



## GingerM (Jan 21, 2012)

Hi, Corto - I should have gone back and edited my post, because you're right - 2 was a bit dumb. 1, however, is still iffy in my view. I'll use Canada as an example, since that was what was being discussed on the radio. As I said, some works are public domain in Canada, but not in the US. So if I upload one of those works to a server physically located in Canada, am I infringing copyright? No in Canada, but yes in the US, I think. However, if my server is in Canada and has a .com domain name, SOPA would be considered to apply to it. A specific example: I used to be with Islandnet (http://www.islandnet.com) This domain is registered through a Canadian registration company, Tucows. The servers are physically located in their offices in Victoria, BC. So how does US law have any validity?

ETA: I should clarify that I have no intention of trying to set something up deliberately to test this, but I _can_ see situations like this happening entirely accidentally.


----------



## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

Yes because you are uploading from the US. The server itself, however, is subject to Canadian laws. You mustn't consider it a whole, it's not that uploaders and downloaders being under US jurisdiction go hand in hand. Also, this is more sketchy, but as an US citizen some internet rules may apply even if the upload takes place in another country, to a server in yet another country (ok  highly doubt this can happen, I'm pretty sure current laws do not cover this, but keep in mind that the internet is a pretty weird place, from a legal point of view. I specifically remember the case of a German citizen who lived in New Zealand*  and maintained a neonazi, antisemitic, holocaust-denying website that was hosted in China*. Once he travelled to Europe -England on some business trip I believe- he was arrested and extradited to Germany. Now keep in mind this doesn't mean jack for the US, legally speaking, and that European -and especially German- laws regarding neonazism and antisemitism are very strict, but I'm just saying it's not comepletely unprecedented. But, as I said, I don't really believe this applies to the US or piracy in general). But yes, I beieve in your case it can be taken as being inside the US court's competence to judge.

*= I don't remember the specific countries, but you get the idea.


----------



## GingerM (Jan 21, 2012)

Ack - sorry, Corto, I thought I'd been clear - I'm Canadian  so would be uploading within Canada. My bad.


----------



## Blutide (Jan 21, 2012)

SIX said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16642369
> 
> Not much more need be said.
> 
> Spreading the word as it happens. No legal battle. No fight. They just walked into the Internet and shut 'er down.



Not really surprised by this, and honestly do any of you think that they have to pass something for something they want to be done?


----------



## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Why are people using MegaUploads illegal activity as an excuse for them being shut down without any legal process? Regardless of how obvious it may be, they still have to follow legal requirements. Just walking in and closing them down is unacceptable.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Blutide said:


> Not really surprised by this, and honestly do any of you think that they have to pass something for something they want to be done?



Well yes, and they were enforcing laws which are already in the books.  Nothing they did was going above or beyond what the US is or has been legally capable, as pretty much any other country with anti-piracy legistlation would also be capable of should MegaUpload or some other service conducted their business within their boarders.



ADF said:


> Why are people using MegaUploads illegal activity as an excuse for them being shut down without any legal process? Regardless of how obvious it may be, they still have to follow legal requirements. Just walking in and closing them down is unacceptable.



Because if you're trying to stop a child pornography ring or a drug trafficking ring, you don't arrest the people responsible and let the illegal activity continue in their absence.

People just really don't know how law works, do they?


----------



## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Because if you're trying to stop a child pornography ring or a drug trafficking ring, you don't arrest the people responsible and let the illegal activity continue in their absence.
> 
> People just really don't know how law works, do they?



Don't you think you are exaggerating just a bit? A file hosting site hardly poses the same risk as a child pornography or drug trafficking ring, they are not equivalent.

Taking down a company before any legal response can even be made is guilty until proven innocent. A SOPA style event, despite SOPA not passing.


----------



## Blutide (Jan 21, 2012)

If only our government saw it that way.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> Don't you think you are exaggerating just a bit? A file hosting site hardly poses the same risk as a child pornography or drug trafficking ring, they are not equivalent.
> 
> Taking down a company before any legal response can even be made is guilty until proven innocent. A SOPA style event, despite SOPA not passing.



I'm not exaggerating at all.  This is the same procedure whether someone was selling fake Louis Vuitton bags or if someone was running a factory using child labor.  On top of that under US law, copyright infringement is an offense worthy of something called an "injunction" meaning by court order, the infringing party is kept from conducting business in order to halt any further monetary damages.

This is not "guilty until proven innocent" this is preventing the potential for further crimes to be committed so that the accused doesn't continue to have charges brought up against them during the trial.

And frankly, if the warrant was out for the arrest of these guys and the site was shut down before they were physically in cuffs, there's nothing legally ambiguous about that.

And again, this is not a SOPA-style event.  This is current anti-piracy laws being enforced.  Believe it or not, before 2012, distributing pirated content while making a profit was illegal and still is.


----------



## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I'm not exaggerating at all.  This is the same procedure whether someone was selling fake Louis Vuitton bags or if someone was running a factory using child labor.  On top of that under US law, copyright infringement is an offense worthy of something called an "injunction" meaning by court order, the infringing party is kept from conducting business in order to halt any further monetary damages.
> 
> This is not "guilty until proven innocent" this is preventing the potential for further crimes to be committed so that the accused doesn't continue to have charges brought up against them during the trial.
> 
> ...



In the UK we get a fine for what the US throws people in jail for, so excuse me if your standards appear extreme to me.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> In the UK we get a fine for what the US throws people in jail for, so excuse me if your standards appear extreme to me.



Being thrown in jail has absolutely nothing to do with procedures of arrest and the shut down of enterprises which sell pirated materials.

The UK doesn't arrest someone selling pirated content, gives them a fine and sends them off to do exactly what got them in trouble in the first place, nor do they allow them to still make money off of pirated content while they're on trial.

Your argument here makes absolutely no sense.

You might as well have said "OH YEAH WELL I LIKE CHOCOLATE ICE CREAM" and it would have been as relevant as your last post was to the conversation.


----------



## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Being thrown in jail has absolutely nothing to do with procedures of arrest and the shut down of enterprises which sell pirated materials.
> 
> The UK doesn't arrest someone selling pirated content, gives them a fine and sends them off to do exactly what got them in trouble in the first place, nor do they allow them to still make money off of pirated content while they're on trial.
> 
> Your argument here makes absolutely no sense.



I'm not making any argument. I am simply pointing out that piracy is treated as a far more serious crime in the US than UK, so America's heavy handed tactics look extreme to me. The most the average Joe can expect is a Â£5000 fine and a suspended sentence, where as the US implements fines in the hundreds of thousands and demands imprisonment. It's probably why they want to extradite our people, believing our system isn't harsh enough for their tastes.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> I'm not making any argument. I am simply pointing out that piracy is treated as a far more serious crime in the US than UK, so America's heavy handed tactics look extreme to me. The most the average Joe can expect is a Â£5000 fine and a suspended sentence, where as the US implements fines in the hundreds of thousands and demands imprisonment. It's probably why they want to extradite our people, believing our system isn't harsh enough for their tastes.



Well that's great and all, but all you're doing is changing the topic to make yourself sound right.

This still has nothing to do with what I originally challenged you about, which was you claiming the US, nor any government for that matter, has the right to shut down a company or organization conducting illegal activities before a trial.  And you based that solely on what you consider to be an important enough crime which would warrant stopping those responsible from continuing to make a profit off of their illegal endeavors when a warrant is issued for their arrest or while they are standing trial.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Incase you folks haven't seen the video yet-
[YT]-tD1yaE0GfQ[/YT]
Welcome to the policestate folks, where the rich use class warfare to take every last cent everyone owns.


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## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Well that's great and all, but all you're doing is changing the topic to make yourself sound right.
> 
> This still has nothing to do with what I originally challenged you about, which was you claiming the US, nor any government for that matter, has the right to shut down a company or organization conducting illegal activities before a trial.  And you based that solely on what you consider to be an important enough crime which would warrant stopping those responsible from continuing to make a profit off of their illegal endeavors when a warrant is issued for their arrest or while they are standing trial.



If you're happy with them having the power to close down a company, before any legal process or chance to defend themselves, then there is nothing to discuss. Clearly things are the way you would have them. Though I reject your association of a upload site with the time sensitivity of something like a child sex ring, despite you personally thinking it is a valid one.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Welcome to the policestate folks, where the rich use class warfare to take every last cent everyone owns.



It's not even about money, even though that's what those least harmed are hoping will come of this.  It's about control and the elimination of everything standing in the way, such as choice and sharing.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Incase you folks haven't seen the video yet-
> Welcome to the policestate folks, where the rich use class warfare to take every last cent everyone owns.



Except for the fact that this completely isn't feasible considering our already overloaded judicial calendars, the thousands if not millions of dollars it would take to prosecute just one person let alone each person individually, and the subsequent thousands, if not millions of dollars being spent in cases where the accused appeals the decision, as the woman Chuckles in that video brings up did.

In short, it's not worth the United States government's time, energy, and funding to prosecute every person who ever used MegaUpload.  And the woman this dude brings up was involved in a CIVIL case, not a criminal case, to clarify.



ADF said:


> If you're happy with them having the power to close down a company, before any legal process or chance to defend themselves, then there is nothing to discuss. Clearly things are the way you would have them. Though I reject your association of a upload site with the time sensitivity of something like a child sex ring, despite you personally thinking it is a valid one.



Um, a warrant for someone's arrest is a legal process dude.  As soon as the order went out to arrest these people on sight for their role in running a company that distributed pirated content, the legal process had begun.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in where the cops arrest someone selling something illegal, then while they're on the way to the police station they make stops so that the suspect can continue selling shit.  You clearly don't understand the concept of time sensitivity if you think that it's not time sensitive to stop someone from making a profit off of illegally distributed content while you're in the midst of taking them down.

By your logic, Bernie Madoff should have continued to make money off of his Ponzi Scheme until the very second he was found guilty.


----------



## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

GingerM said:


> Ack - sorry, Corto, I thought I'd been clear - I'm Canadian  so would be uploading within Canada. My bad.


Uh then you're breaking US law while being a Canadian, in Canada, to a Canadian server. There's no way at all you can be considered as under US jurisdiction. Don't know what's ambiguous about it



ADF said:


> If you're happy with them having the power to close down a company, before any legal process or chance to defend themselves, then there is nothing to discuss. Clearly things are the way you would have them. Though I reject your association of a upload site with the time sensitivity of something like a child sex ring, despite you personally thinking it is a valid one.


Jesus Christ you're dense. Let me spell it out for you:
This is the exact same procedure used to stop any illegal operation anywhere in the world. It's part of the basis of how justice works. It's not the magical police-state law only the US applies, or the terrible pro-big industry lobby rule that was specifically invented to apply to internet pirates. It's justice 101. It's as if you were complaining about how cops got involved, or about how they'll appear before court. It's completely senseless.

Here's how arrests work: Once you've got enough evidence that a person/company/whatever is breaking the law, you shut down that illegal operation and arrest those responsible (because the whole point is to shut down their illegal operation, letting them use it to make a profit/share kid porn/whatever while under arrest would be retarded). Then you go to trial. If it's proven they were guilty, then it's their asses on a plate. If it's proven they were innocent, they go free and can sue the state for the damages and lost profits caused by the shutdown (not to mention the fact that, given the "non bis in idem" or "double jeopardy" principle, if you can't get them declared guilty then you can't judge them again, so you don't simply go arresting people willy-nilly without enough evidence, which is why we can mostly assume the State has enough evidence of their guilt if they're performing such a massive operation in the first place). 

It doesn't matter if you're in the US or UK or Narnia. You are complaining about a basic procedure of law-applying, painting it like the US was shitting all over proper procedure in this specific case to arrest some internet bad guys. And Term's child-porn site analogy was his attempt to explain this to you in the simplest way, not him claiming that pirating a song is as bad as kiddie diddling.


----------



## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Um, a warrant for someone's arrest is a legal process dude.
> 
> I don't know what fantasy world you live in where the cops arrest someone selling something illegal, then while they're on the way to the police station they make stops so that the suspect can continue selling shit. You clearly don't understand the concept of time sensitivity if you think that it's not time sensitive to stop someone from making a profit off of illegally distributed content while you're in the midst of taking them down.



See, in the real world you're supposed to sue a company for copyright infringement and take them to court for damages, not take down the entire company without any warning. MegaUpload contained copyrighted material uploaded by users but that wasn't the primary function of the site, it's like taking down Google because its search engine can enable copyright infringement. It's why you sue for damages and not simply take down the entire company.

Your attempts to equate this raid to the human harm caused by delaying a child sex ring raid, or "while they're on the way to the police station they make stops so that the suspect can continue selling shit" are not equivalent scenarios to what took place. They could have used a precision scalpel to tackle the piracy problem in this case, instead they used a nuclear bomb; taking out everything in range illegal or not.

I consider this wholly unjustified. If you disagree, that's your business.



Corto said:


> It doesn't matter if you're in the US or UK or Narnia. You are complaining about a basic procedure of law-applying, painting it like the US was shitting all over proper procedure in this specific case to arrest some internet bad guys. And Term's child-porn site analogy was his attempt to explain this to you in the simplest way, not him claiming that pirating a song is as bad as kiddie diddling.



Generally when copyright infringement takes place, you are contacted that you are being sued for copyright infringement. They don't kick down your door, take your computer and say you can have it back after you've proved you are innocent.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> See, in the real world you're supposed to sue a company for copyright infringement and take them to court for damages, not take down the entire company without any warning. MegaUpload contained copyrighted material uploaded by users but that wasn't the primary function of the site, it's like taking down Google because its search engine can enable copyright infringement. It's why you sue for damages and not simply take down the entire company.
> 
> Your attempts to equate this raid to the human harm caused by delaying a child sex ring raid, or "while they're on the way to the police station they make stops so that the suspect can continue selling shit" are not equivalent scenarios to what took place. They could have used a precision scalpel to tackle the piracy problem in this case, instead they used a nuclear bomb; taking out everything in range illegal or not.
> 
> I consider this wholly unjustified. If you disagree, that's your business.



Read Corto's post to see just how wrong you are.

And the US government isn't suing anyone.  What Mr. Dotcom and his associates are being charged with is a CRIMINAL ACTION.  It is ILLEGAL for you to knowingly create or distribute pirated content, especially when you're making money off of it.

The RIAA sues people over copyright infringement.  The MPAA sues people over copyright infringement.  NFL Films, Disney, Viacom, NewCorp sue people over copyright infringement.  The US Government doesn't sue people over copyright infringement.  Private entities and the federal government are two completely different things, and the US has no reason to sue somebody over something they don't own, namely the intellectual property in question.

Are you trying to say that when the UK arrests someone over copyright violations they're suing them?

You're right, we don't need to discuss this anymore.  Because you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.  Please, talk to a lawyer, because you have some pretty messed up misconceptions about how law works.


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## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> snip



None of it really matters though, does it? Because we're all living in the American empire, and regardless of what our laws say; America can just extradite us on a whim and subject us to their draconian copyright system.


----------



## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

comparing this to them taking Google down is downright ridiculous. This isn't some FBI bloke waking up one day and deciding "hey I wanna take Megaupload down today". There are some minimal piracy-fighting requirements sites must comply with in order to remain legal (and it actually works pretty well. Letting piracy run rampant would be retarded and illegal,  and taking down everything remotely illegal would be outright censorship and is the reason we protest SOPA. The current system is a pretty nice compromise between the two extremes), which is the reason why, for example Youtube is pretty much untouchable even though I've watched a million movies/songs/TV series being uploaded there (they do comply with these requeriments). Megaupload repeatedly ignored these requeriments, they ignored requests to handle the issue, they were actively makin a profit form it (unlike YT, MU sold premium accounts) and, as seen in some internal emails intercepted by the FBI before the arrest, the owners were well aware of this and actually encouraged it.

So this isn't some small time copyright infringement. This isn't some one-time mistake. This isn't the site's capability to be used as a pirate medium going beyond the point the site runners could control. This is some people knowlingly breaking the law on a massive scale, making a shitload of money in the process. This is what we call a "criminal operation", and this is the exact situation in which these kinda operations work. 
The child-porn example is too extreme, the Google example is unrelated and can't really be applied here, but a pretty good analogy is a mafia operation bootlegging thousands of movies/songs/etc in the US with their ringleaders living abroad. It's exactly the same only the grunts using DVD copies are replaced with people uploading shit to a server. Just because it's on the internet doesn't magically make it legal.


EDIT: I was ninja'd


ADF said:


> None of it really matters though, does it? Because we're all living in the American empire, and regardless of what our laws say; America can just extradite us on a whim and subject us to their draconian copyright system.


do you have any fucking idea what an extradition treaty is? You are arguing something you haven't got the slightest clue about. you could be yelling "yes but the FBI orchestrated 9/11 so America has worldwide powers" and it would make as much sense (and be less of an insult to my years of law studies).


----------



## Maisuki (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> None of it really matters though, does it? Because we're all living in the American empire, and regardless of what our laws say; America can just extradite us on a whim and subject us to their draconian copyright system.



I hate my country more and more every day.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Making this it's own post so that I can make this VERY clear.  I'll even bold it for everyone.

*AMONG THE FBI'S EVIDENCE ARE INTERNAL DOCUMENTS AND E-MAILS WHICH SHOW MEGAUPLOAD EMPLOYEES WERE AWARE OF HOSTING COPYRIGHTED CONTENT ON THEIR SITE.  MEGAUPLOAD WAS GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT VIA THE SAME SAFE HARBOR RULES GRANTED TO YOU TUBE.  INSTEAD OF REMOVING INFRINGING CONTENT, THEY INSTEAD HID THE URLS FROM SEARCHES AND CONTINUED TO HOST THE CONTENT FOR DOWNLOADING AND STREAMING WHILE MAKING A PROFIT BY CHARGING USERS FOR PREMIUM SERVICES LIKE BETTER DOWNLOAD SPEEDS AND INCREASED QUALITY OF STREAMS.  THIS DISQUALIFIES THEM FROM SAFE HARBOR PROTECTIONS AND MAKES WHAT THEY'RE DOING A CRIMINAL ACTION.

SINCE MEGAUPLOAD HAS BUSINESS ASSETS IN THE UNITED STATES (THEIR DNS SERVER) THEY ARE SUBJECT TO US LAWS, INCLUDING ANTI-PIRACY LEGISLATION WHICH HAVE BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR YEARS.*



ADF said:


> None of it really matters though, does it? Because we're all living in the American empire, and regardless of what our laws say; America can just extradite us on a whim and subject us to their draconian copyright system.



And here we go with the melodrama again.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> None of it really matters though, does it? Because we're all living in the American empire, and regardless of what our laws say; America can just extradite us on a whim and subject us to their draconian copyright system.


No wonder why everyone hates my country.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

Yeah, the US is so terrible, Iran and China got it right...I suppose? 

Man, just because there are things I don't like about the US, I get tired of people over exaggerating how "terrible it is"

I remember wanting to just LOOK at the behind the scenes of the latest Dinosaur documentary put out by BBC, it was the BBC that blocked me from viewing it. Fucking terrible, look how draconian they are!


----------



## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

Here's the indictment by the way.


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## Maisuki (Jan 21, 2012)

> Mega Conspiracy


Yet they have the gall to call protesters fear-mongers?


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Corto said:


> Here's the indictment by the way.


It still doesn't give the usa the right to enforce our laws onto other countries, the usa shouldn't be the world police and while leasing servers in virginia does give them a legal loophole to extradite the owners of megaupload many other people lease servers as well... Hell that's the whole point being, "the cloud".  The extradition is bullshit because it give precedent for other countries as well to do this.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Corto said:


> Here's the indictment by the way.



I forgot the whole "money laundering" thing too among all of this.

Embezzlement being among Mr. Dotcom's hobbies in the past.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> It still doesn't give the usa the right to enforce our laws onto other countries, the usa shouldn't be the world police and while leasing servers in virginia does give them a legal loophole to extradite the owners of megaupload many other people lease servers as well... Hell that's the whole point being, "the cloud".  The extradition is bullshit because it give precedent for other countries as well to do this.



Newsflash, other countries have done stuff like that before.


----------



## Recel (Jan 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Newsflash, other countries have done stuff like that before.



Wich doesn't makes it any better.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> It still doesn't give the usa the right to enforce our laws onto other countries, the usa shouldn't be the world police and while leasing servers in virginia does give them a legal loophole to extradite the owners of megaupload many other people lease servers as well... Hell that's the whole point being, "the cloud".  The extradition is bullshit because it gives legal precident for other countries as well to do this.



So you're saying they have the right, but they don't have the right.

Um, if I had a production house in the UK and I was selling bootlegged copies of Red Tails there, the UK would have reason to extradite me to stand trial over there.  Why does the US suddenly not have the right to do what the rest of the world has the right to do?

Sorry if you're letting your dislike for America cloud your concept of reality.  I know people here like to think that everything the US does is suddenly a human rights violation, but considering how people here like to also say with the same breath that they "hate stupid people/think rationally" it's just a tad bit annoying when you all act like the sky is falling over every little thing.



Recel said:


> Wich doesn't makes it any better.



Why not?  Why should I be allowed to conduct an illegal business in Hungary and avoid answering for my crimes for the sole reason that I'm currently in the US?

This isn't Lethal Weapon 2.  None of the people involved here have diplomatic immunity.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

Recel said:


> Wich doesn't makes it any better.



Berne Treaty.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Newsflash, other countries have done stuff like that before.


I know that, just cause it's a law doesn't mean it's moral.


Term_the_Schmuck said:


> So you're saying they have the right, but they don't have the right.
> 
> Um, if I had a production house in the UK and I was selling bootlegged copies of Red Tails there, the UK would have reason to extradite me to stand trial over there.  Why does the US suddenly not have the right to do what the rest of the world has the right to do?
> 
> Sorry if you're letting your dislike for America cloud your concept of reality.  I know people here like to think that everything the US does is suddenly a human rights violation, but considering how people here like to also say with the same breath that they "hate stupid people/think rationally" it's just a tad bit annoying when you all act like the sky is falling over every little thing.


I'm saying they have the legal right, but that doesn't make it moral for them to do that and that they shouldn't be allowed to do it.
Okay when did I say anything like, "I hate stupid people/think rationally"?  You're putting words into my mouth that I never said.  I hate the fact we're more of a plutocracy in which people can "make friends with" congressmen to get laws passed and that congress sucks perverbial lobby cock for a quick buck.


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## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

Yes "Mega Conspiracy" is probably the stupidest name they could have gone with.


CannonFodder said:


> It still doesn't give the usa the right to enforce our laws onto other countries, the usa shouldn't be the world police and while leasing servers in virginia does give them a legal loophole to extradite the owners of megaupload many other people lease servers as well... Hell that's the whole point being, "the cloud".  The extradition is bullshit because it give precedent for other countries as well to do this.


Yes, it does give them the right. The fact that the piracy is a bunch of 1s and 0s instead of physical copies of DVDs, and takes place in the net instead of a physical store, doesn't magically make it legal. The internet is not a safe haven for committing as many crimes as you want, it's not a lawless free for all. It all eventually comes down to a physicall location anyway (this "cloud" is not some magical parallel dimension, it's hosted in physical servers located in some place) and in this case that location was within the US. They broke an US law inside the US, they are within US jurisdiction.  It's not a legal loophole, anymore than "kills a dude in Virginia makes the Virginia cops arrest you" is a loophole.
The extradition is not bullshit. It's a pretty clear cut case, it's exactly what extraditions exist for. And I'm getting tired of repeating this to people that believe that any action taken by the US automatically means it's some conspiracy enforced by the world police to fuck over sovereign countries.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> I'm saying they have the legal right, but that doesn't make it moral for them to do that and that they shouldn't be allowed to do it.
> Okay when did I say anything like, "I hate stupid people/think rationally"?  You're putting words into my mouth that I never said.  I hate the fact we're more of a plutocracy in which people can "make friends with" congressmen to get laws passed and that congress sucks perverbial lobby cock for a quick buck.



Where is morality coming into this?

If I were the head of a criminal organization and conducted my business in let's say France and French authorities find out about what I'm doing, why should France be denied the ability to have me answer for my crimes?  How is it moral for me to remain protected because I'm sipping cocktails in the Virgin Islands after I've broken several French laws on their soil?  That makes absolutely no sense, and sounds like more of a loophole than anything you've suggested as being a loophole.

And the "plutocracy" has absolutely NOTHING to do with MegaUpload's case.


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## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

Oh so now let's change it into a discussion about morality because since that's subjective there's no way to prove us wrong.

Even so, I don't think you need to be a Knight Templar to think that "knowingly makes a shitload of money by breaking laws they were aware of stealing the intelectual propierty of others" is morally wrong.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Corto said:


> Yes "Mega Conspiracy" is probably the stupidest name they could have gone with.
> 
> Yes, it does give them the right. The fact that the piracy is a bunch of 1s and 0s instead of physical copies of DVDs, and takes place in the net instead of a physical store, doesn't magically make it legal. The internet is not a safe haven for committing as many crimes as you want, it's not a lawless free for all. It all eventually comes down to a physicall location anyway (this "cloud" is not some magical parallel dimension, it's hosted in physical servers located in some place) and in this case that location was within the US. They broke an US law inside the US, they are within US jurisdiction.  It's not a legal loophole, anymore than "kills a dude in Virginia makes the Virginia cops arrest you" is a loophole.
> The extradition is not bullshit. It's a pretty clear cut case, it's exactly what extraditions exist for. And I'm getting tired of repeating this to people that believe that any action taken by the US automatically means it's some conspiracy enforced by the world police to fuck over sovereign countries.


Okay lets say you bought server time in China and said something negative about their government, then they extradicted you to china calling it sedition, would that be bullshit?
The problem is it gives precedent for more serious abuses to take place.


Corto said:


> Oh so now let's change it into a discussion about  morality because since that's subjective there's no way to prove us  wrong.
> 
> Even so, I don't think you need to be a Knight Templar to think that  "knowingly makes a shitload of money by breaking laws they were aware of  stealing the intelectual propierty of others" is morally wrong.


"Isn't talking about subjective moral topics terrible?  I know right? Now let's talk about why I think piracy is morally wrong instead"


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## Torrijos-sama (Jan 21, 2012)

Who would have thought that Federal Authorities would ever take action without warrants?

Well, i'm definitely confused by all this!

The other issue would be the takedown of a website whose servers are located abroad (Hong Kong) by US Federal Agents, and the prosecution of individuals who aren't US citizens that live someplace other than in the continental US or its territories.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> I know that, just cause it's a law doesn't mean it's moral.



What's immoral about it? The things like the Berne Convention and treaty were done so that morally people recognizes other people's work. It's so that morally while countries had their own laws they recognized its citizens shouldn't be breaking the rules in other countries. That's not just intellectual property laws. There may be disagreements however, oh say if a girl had sex with a guy in another country where it was consenting but it broke the law elsewhere. 

I don't want SOPA, PIPA or ACTA about. I think Copyright Laws in its current state are not benefiting the creators. However, the copyright laws are so fucked up we're actually defending people who broke the law willingly to make money. The creators are still screwed. They're not getting money from the business they worked for, and people are still getting rich from stealing the content. That's truly fucked up. 

The people who should be having the 82" televisions shouldn't be big corporations, and MegaUpload made themselves one. Meanwhile people who work on games or other forms of entertainment, who aren't highly paid sports stars or actors, still got screwed. http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html

http://libcom.org/library/when-it-comes-crunch-unpaid-overtime-games-industry

So I'm not exactly cheering for the government because, yes there are lobbyists and companies who are vested in keeping the status quo and the golden age of the 40 hour work week that allowed people to own a home and spend time with family is gone....but MegaUpload wasn't there for the people who helped with the content creators who get screwed either. They were just the other spectrum of business screwing others over.


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## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Corto said:


> Please stop wasting our time. I'm sorry if I don't reply to whatever you say in response to this (I'm expecting "you're wrong because the US orchestrated 9/11") but I don't have the time to continue yelling at a brick wall.



The indefinite detention bill is fine and correct because that's the law, and if it's the law; then it must be right.

Oh look, I can exaggerate people's positions with arguments never made as well.



Term_the_Schmuck said:


> And here we go with the melodrama again.



Because it's melodrama when it is actually happening? The court only recently ruled that a UK citizen is to be extradited to the US for the crime of "linking" to copyrighted material on his site. Never mind we have our own laws for copyright infringement, they wanted to give him "US justice".

So yes, I am very much bloody concerned about what is apparently being tolerated.


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## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Okay lets say you bought server time in China and said something negative about their government, then they extradicted you to china calling it sedition, would that be bullshit?
> The problem is it gives precedent for more serious abuses to take place.


No, because that's not how extradition treaties work. 

"Extradition" does not mean "repatriate" or "just ship them there". There's some very specific, very limited times when it can be used, and those ocassions are very explicitly stated in legal internation treaties which must exist in order for extradition to work (most people seem to think that "extradition" simply means "yo ship me this dude because I say so". This is wrong). One of the most common clauses is the requirement for the action to be considered illegal in both countries (maybe not the exact same rule, but general provisions against it). Copyright rules are almost universal, even if the specifics are different. On the other hand, I doubt my country has laws against criticizing the Chinese government. 

Once again, you people are complaining about things you don't really know about, and making wrong assumptions that make the US (and, by extension, the system as a whole and international law) look much eviler than it really is.


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## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

ADF said:


> The indefinite detention bill is fine and correct because that's the law, and if it's the law; then it must be right.
> 
> Oh look, I can exaggerate people's positions with arguments never made as well.


Hey look you are completely changing the topic again because you cannot win the discussion on the topic you iniciated! You must be a blast at debate clubs.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Corto said:


> Hey look you are completely changing the topic again because you cannot win the discussion on the topic you iniciated! You must be a blast at debate clubs.


I think he was referring to ADF saying talking about morality as a debate topic is terrible and then turning around and debating morality himself.


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## ADF (Jan 21, 2012)

Corto said:


> Hey look you are completely changing the topic again because you cannot win the discussion on the topic you iniciated! You must be a blast at debate clubs.



If by changing the topic you mean reacting to your accusation that I must be a 9/11 conspiracy theorist? Because that was very on topic, wasn't it?

The only argument I have lost is whether or not there is laws in place to enable the shutting down of a company; with them having no ability to defend themselves prior to it happening. I still stand by it being indefensible bullshit, despite attempts to justify it through exaggeration. Something I attempted to get across with the above illegal =/= moral reference. Regardless of arguments for the shutting down of megaupload in this case, there are a range of other examples that are not so easily justified; such as the raid on organic food producers and the shutting down of Liberty Coins four years ago.

I reject the idea that just because there are some ridiculous laws in place, that it's ok.

-edit

People say it isn't guilty until proven innocent. But the company only hears they are being shut down when it is happening and have to take it to court to argue they are innocent. A lot of companies have tight profit margins, especially in this recession environment. Even if they are ruled innocent, the event can bankrupt them. Even if they win, they then need the legal fees to sue the government. Not everyone is going to be big enough to fight back.

Now you may be able to argue it's legal, but you cannot argue it's right.


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## Torrijos-sama (Jan 21, 2012)

Also, where do libraries fit into this whole issue with copyright law?


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

JesusFish said:


> Also, where do libraries fit into this whole issue with copyright law?



Fair Use

Really, you think with all these years of Copyright Law and Libraries existing, this wasn't asked?


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## Mayfurr (Jan 21, 2012)

Is it just me, or does this whole Megaupload case _using existing laws and treaties_ rather demolish the case for laws like SOPA and PIPA?


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## Onnes (Jan 21, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> Is it just me, or does this whole Megaupload case _using existing laws and treaties_ rather demolish the case for laws like SOPA and PIPA?



The industry associations involved want to do away with the safe harbor provisions that protect other sites similar to Megaupload. The only reason this made it to overt prosecution was that the Megaupload owners were being goddamn idiots.


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 21, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> *Is it just me,* or does this whole Megaupload case _using existing laws and treaties_ rather demolish the case for laws like SOPA and PIPA?



No, it's not just you.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 21, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> Is it just me, or does this whole Megaupload case _using existing laws and treaties_ rather demolish the case for laws like SOPA and PIPA?



You missed the part that they had servers in the US, where SOPA and PIPA want global power.


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## Kuro-Arashi-Ame (Jan 21, 2012)

I never used the site, but I wonder where this will lead and what sites will be next.  Scary seeing that gone so quickly.


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## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> You missed the part that they had servers in the US, where SOPA and PIPA want global power.



I didn't miss that, but I took his post as a remark on the fact that coordinated international law enforcement action, of the sort SOPA/PIPA's supporters implied didn't already exist, does in fact exist without them.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 22, 2012)

Well the thing is, SOPA and PIPA are far more reaching than what appears to be an investigation that resulted in arrests.

The actions with MegaUpload seem more similar to a drug bust, than what SOPA and PIPA want, which is a lot less due process. FBI indicted and came in vs. "Oh look you got a picture of a Pokemon and Nintendo doesn't like that, time to block your site, ban advertisers etc..."

Seems in this case there was enough evidence for a prosecution. If they're innocent they get their stuff back after a trial. The only scary part is the fact that they probably will be digging into records - but I suspect they'll go not so much after all the paid accounts that violated copyright but probably the big ones that were also profiting.

Like I said, I feel a bit less sorry for MegaUpload though I know it's scary after the heels of SOPA/PIPA and now ACTA - because they were a business that still profited off the sweat of others, others that are already getting screwed by the business they work for.


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 22, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> You missed the part that they had servers in the US, *where SOPA and PIPA want global power*.



Which is the very reason they need to be defeated.


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## Kitutal (Jan 22, 2012)

So, in summary, it seems the US government is capable of closing down any website at least part of the infrastructure of is based in the USA and of at least trying to arrest anyone attempting to commit crime through that site, but if these new laws are passed they will be able to both target any site they want regardless of where it is based and close down or censor any site that slightly upsets large copyright owning corproations, such as famous musicians, film makers and so on, regardless of whether the site owners themselves set out to break these copyright laws or not.
And as a result many sites will be much more careful in what they allow to be uploaded, and the way will be opened by precedent for even stricter laws on internet censorship.

Is that about right?


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 22, 2012)

Kitutual, yes.

A forum like this could get blocked from view in the US because people have anime and other avatars that break copyright. Advertisers could no longer use the site either. In addition, something like Wiki could also get shut down if they feel the articles contain copyright infringement. You do a review about a product and find it bad, you post up clips feeling it's fair use and mocking the product. Not only do you no longer get time with the Safe Harbor Law (which people forget that's what the Digital Rights act was about - and apparently MegaUpload ignored it - which is why they're in so much trouble) they shut down access to the site in the US and block other advertisers.

Case in point, after the disaster with "The Last Airbender" someone made a recording of a theater trailer of Shyamalan's latest involvement "Devil" You can clearly hear the audience groaning loudly once his name was on screen. The company had Youtube take down any videos, although other sites popped up and caught it quickly. The same happened when people had recorded reactions to people seeing "The Last Airbender" (Epic Hate) citing copyright violations. Each case Youtube had responded to the request. Now think how if those laws were in place, Youtube gets the entire site shut down, all advertisers are pulled.

Even then I'm actually ok with having videos taken down. They want the traffic and adveritsing to go to their site. One example was there was a Captain Planet spoof done with Don Cheadle. Some guy just re-uploads it on Youtube, Funny or Die had the original video and had it taken down. At first you kinda get upset thinking maybe the people who owned Captain Planet issued the takedown - no Funny Or Die simply wanted people to visit their site for the video. 

I'm sure it's been mentioned but the person who drafted this bill has no idea wtf he's doing considering his fundraising site was a copyright violation. http://www.burntorangereport.com/di...h-rtx-breaks-copyright-law-on-his-own-website

John Stewart had clips where congress referred to people running the internet as "nerds" ...really??? http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-18-2012/ko-computer


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## Kitutal (Jan 22, 2012)

So the sites aren't closed then, just blocked to search engines and advertisers? Kind of like the great firewall of china, just... not in china.


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## Mayfurr (Jan 22, 2012)

The worrying thing is that non-copyright-violating users of Megaupload have been caught up as well, losing access to their legal and legitimate files through no fault of their own:



> But apart from storing allegedly illegal material, Megaupload was used legitimately by hundreds of thousands - possibly millions - of people around the world.
> 
> The site address yesterday displayed a notice from the FBI announcing the domain name had been seized "pursuant to an order issued by the US District Court", with no indication when, or even if, they would be able to access their files again.
> 
> ...


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## Ainoko (Jan 22, 2012)

ramsay_baggins said:


> GAAAHHHH! They were really good at making sure illegal stuff wasn't even in there! So many people have lost all their backups, it's total BULLSHIT!
> 
> I didn't use the site, but I'm so ANGRY! They were only ACCUSED! FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU AMERICA!



Not to mention the distinct possibility that some kiddie crap that may have been stored there, if anyone stored the illegal collections of kiddie crap, keep watching over your shoulder, you'll most likely be next.


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## GingerM (Jan 22, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> The worrying thing is that non-copyright-violating users of Megaupload have been caught up as well, losing access to their legal and legitimate files through no fault of their own:



I wonder if there could be grounds for a class-action suit against the US DoJ for losses & inconvenience incurred?


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 22, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> The worrying thing is that *non-copyright-violating users of Megaupload have been caught up as well, losing access to their legal and legitimate files through no fault of their own*:



Ahhh... "class-action" against the US Gov.  Nice.  Hope they go through with it, should be fun to watch.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 22, 2012)

GingerM said:


> I wonder if there could be grounds for a class-action suit against the US DoJ for losses & inconvenience incurred?



A pizza place gets shut down for child labor violations, should all the customers and employees who worked there that didn't violate the law should sue the government for shutting them down?


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## ArielMT (Jan 22, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> A pizza place gets shut down for child labor violations, should all the customers and employees who worked there that didn't violate the law should sue the government for shutting them down?



In your example, no, because the pizza place was not entrusted with storing property that did not belong to the pizza place.

Megaupload was entrusted with storing property that did not belong to them, and despite the government's argument that a lot of that property was stored without the rightful owners' permission as well, a lot of that property was stored with the rightful owners' permission.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 22, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> In your example, no, because the pizza place was not entrusted with storing property that did not belong to the pizza place.
> 
> Megaupload was entrusted with storing property that did not belong to them, and despite the government's argument that a lot of that property was stored without the rightful owners' permission as well, a lot of that property was stored with the rightful owners' permission.



Correction: *copy of property*.

Basically MegaUpload was a storage site, for backup files and had accounts that people paid for to get that content faster. Just like FA and other sites that store copies they're still not responsible. Whether the people's accounts were legit or not for storing copies, they cannot sue the agency for shutting down things that were a violation of laws. 

Not to mention the fact, people were still accessing MegaUpload through IP addresses.


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## Roose Hurro (Jan 22, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> In your example, no, because the pizza place was not entrusted with storing property that did not belong to the pizza place.
> 
> Megaupload was entrusted with storing property that did not belong to them, and despite the government's argument that a lot of that property was stored without the rightful owners' permission as well, *a lot of that property was stored with the rightful owners' permission*.



A good way to handle this would be to let all those rightful owners recover their property, once the investigation is done.


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## Commiecomrade (Jan 23, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Correction: *copy of property*.
> 
> Basically MegaUpload was a storage site, for backup files and had accounts that people paid for to get that content faster. Just like FA and other sites that store copies they're still not responsible. Whether the people's accounts were legit or not for storing copies, they cannot sue the agency for shutting down things that were a violation of laws.
> 
> Not to mention the fact, people were still accessing MegaUpload through IP addresses.



If they state in their disclaimer that they didn't have full responsibility over the files they store, then this is absolutely correct. It still doesn't help the justifiable rage people are probably experiencing right now.


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## Shico (Jan 23, 2012)

Well fuck...
I used megavideo all the time to watch anime and tv shows and crap...

Wait...

Shit...

Are they gonna do anything to people who watched megavideo? I clocked in hours and hours of watching crap on there. I never downloaded anything (...I think) and I never uploaded, never got an account/paid them anything either...but

Well shit. One more thing for me to worry about, getting sued or some shit for watching crap free online. It would be my fucking luck too if some fed was at my door about using megavideo. Fuck.


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## Mayfurr (Jan 24, 2012)

Apparently when Kim Dotcom of Megaupload was arrested in his New Zealand, police cornered him in his mansion's "panic room".

... who builds a _panic room_ in _New Zealand?!?_ What's he scared of? Malicious sheep? 

EDIT: Here's an interesting thing - the extradition treaty between NZ and the US doesn't appear to cover copyright infringement. So while in NZ Kim Dotcom can be charged with copyright violations, it seems he'd have to be tried _here_ instead of in the US...


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 24, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> Apparently when Kim Dotcom of Megaupload was arrested in his New Zealand, police cornered him in his mansion's "panic room".
> 
> ... who builds a _panic room_ in _New Zealand?!?_ What's he scared of? Malicious sheep?
> 
> EDIT: Here's an interesting thing - the extradition treaty between NZ and the US doesn't appear to cover copyright infringement. So while in NZ Kim Dotcom can be charged with copyright violations, it seems he'd have to be tried _here_ instead of in the US...



Since Mr. Dotcom has likely made plenty of enemies through his extracurricular activities of fraud, embezzlement, and laundering, I guess he figured it'd be good to have a plan.

Also, the FBI is also charging Dotcom with embezzlement which is one of the things listed in the treaty you linked.  So he can go to the US to face that crime among the others he's also charged with.


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## GingerM (Jan 24, 2012)

I predict the embezzlement charge is just to get him into US jurisdiction.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 24, 2012)

GingerM said:


> I predict the embezzlement charge is just to get him into US jurisdiction.



The FBI would have to show New Zealand sufficient evidence to suggest what Dotcom was doing with his assets was illegal in order for him to be extradited. 

If New Zealand is cooperating, then we can only assume that by their government's standards, the FBI has a case against him.


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## jcfynx (Jan 24, 2012)

So a site that obviously has millions of illegal files gets shut down?

I fail to see the relevance.

People are just upset that they can't download their Skyrims for free now.

The purported umbrage towards due-process laws is just a justification for these feelings.


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## Mayfurr (Jan 25, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> The FBI would have to show New Zealand sufficient evidence to suggest what Dotcom was doing with his assets was illegal in order for him to be extradited.
> 
> If New Zealand is cooperating, then we can only assume that by their government's standards, the FBI has a case against him.



That's a fairly reasonable assumption, and one I'm inclined to agree with. 
 We're not THAT much of a pushover for Uncle Sam that we'd compromise our justice system on America's say-so, especially as NZ has in the past told the US where to go in the past - primarily on the subjects of US Navy ship visits and joining the "Coalition of the BillingWilling" in invading Iraq.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 25, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> That's a fairly reasonable assumption, and one I'm inclined to agree with.
> We're not THAT much of a pushover for Uncle Sam that we'd compromise our justice system on America's say-so, especially as NZ has in the past told the US where to go in the past - primarily on the subjects of US Navy ship visits and joining the "Coalition of the BillingWilling" in invading Iraq.



Cool story bro.


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## ADF (Jan 25, 2012)

Anti piracy propaganda video references Megaupload as a site they need SOPA passed to shut down.


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## Bliss (Jan 25, 2012)

RELEASE MY COMPATRIOT, AMERICA IN NEW ZEALAND. >:V


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 25, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> The FBI would have to *show* New Zealand sufficient evidence


Or merely _forge_.

Anyone remember those bioweapon trucks Saddam purportedly had?


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## ArielMT (Jan 27, 2012)

The Megaupload case gets weirder with gun charges, flight risks, and an inflatable tank.

I suddenly want an inflatable tank for my front yard.

Also, the Stanford Law School has a blog article outlining how Megaupload is "a lot less guilty than you think."


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