# Gas attack on Midwest Furfest?



## Gryphoneer (Dec 7, 2014)

http://chicagosuntimes.com/news/che...ion-during-midwest-furfest-at-rosemont-hyatt/

Apparently a TV station reported that a "glass jar with a chlorine substance" was found smashed in a staircase at the hotel.


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## Oreo (Dec 7, 2014)

Hope they catch the bastage responsible


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## Nashida (Dec 7, 2014)

They're treating it as a criminal act now, it had to have been intentional.

I'm going to say what I said on Facebook when another friend was ranting on and on about it: For  me right now, I'm just thankful things went smoothly. I'm thankful they  were able to get everyone out, and that con security worked seamlessly to ensure those got out safe. I'm thankful my boyfriend and our friends  were okay (if just super tired). I'm thankful the convention center  across the street and another hotel opened  their doors to those standing in the cold. I'm thankful that while  sure, 19 people were affected, they got treatment quickly and most  likely will be fine. I don't doubt this wasn't an accident, and I'm glad  it's getting looked into, but in the grand scheme of things it could  have been way, WAY worse.


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## ricchi (Dec 7, 2014)

I saw on FurMedia that only a few were injured but everyone was kept safe and the fandom came together to protect one another so it's comforting to know people are safe at least. I'm assuming we'll hear more about this later on.


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## RedSavage (Dec 7, 2014)

WOW.
WOOOOOOOOOOOW. 

*WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.*

Seriously? Is this the extremes to which fandom hating has finally reached?  I mean, regardless of the fandom. Ignore the fact that this is a fur-com. Replace it with Comic-con. Anime-com. Whatever the hell. This isn't some political gambit or some protest. Just some huge, throbbing, hate boner against a group of _hobbyists._

Or. Alternatively. This was something much more _personal_ and there are specific persons looking to harm or main a specific somebody/organization in charge of said festivities or what have you. 

On the other hand: 



> The hotel was hosting the Midwest FurFest convention. Attendees dress up like furry animals and celebrate art, literature and performance based on anthropomorphic animals, according to the conventionâ€™s website.



Nice to get some positive press for once! :V


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 7, 2014)

The initial coverage left room for it to be a simple accident with a cleaning agent or something, but that's growing more unlikely by the minute, isn't it?


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## Calemeyr (Dec 7, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> WOW.
> WOOOOOOOOOOOW.
> 
> *WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.*
> ...



I had thought people had forgotten about the furry fandom, the rage was now targeted toward bronies. What if it was a disgruntled furry who responded to some bad social circumstances with this?


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## Troj (Dec 7, 2014)

I will definitely be pissed and disappointed if this was some retard's idea of a "prank," but like many others, I think this is an intentional, malicious attack. Whether this is the work of some obsessive anti-furry or disgruntled man-child furry has yet to be revealed.

Either way, I hope they find the bastard and string him from the rafters.


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## RedSavage (Dec 7, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> The initial coverage left room for it to be a simple accident with a cleaning agent or something, but that's growing more unlikely by the minute, isn't it?



This is a photo of the staircase. 







That doesn't look like an itty bitty accidental spill to me. So no, I don't think so. 



Calemeyr said:


> I had thought people had forgotten about the furry fandom, the rage was now targeted toward bronies. What if it was a disgruntled furry who responded to some bad social circumstances with this?



That's actually what I'm leaning towards. THough to be honest I really am ambivalent about it. 4chan shit has gotten crazy over the past few years (recently a woman was strangled and the killer posted pictures of her body on /b/).  So who knows.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Dec 7, 2014)

I bet the Al-Qaida did this.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 7, 2014)

No one keeps a cleaning agent in a glass fucking jar.


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## Nashida (Dec 7, 2014)

That's a far cry from an accidental spill


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## Calemeyr (Dec 7, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> This is a photo of the staircase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know, this is going to sound kinda creepy, but what if it was a 4chan type of person? With the #Icantbreathe thing going on, maybe they wanted to do something like this because they thought it was "funny" and "topical".


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## RedSavage (Dec 7, 2014)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> I bet the Al-Qaida did this.



Those damn Al-Kite-uhs



Batty Krueger said:


> No one keeps a cleaning agent in a glass fucking jar.



This has amatuer douchbage written all over it. From what I understand, had the person added one-or-two more agents, it would have created _actual_ chlorine gas, which would have resulted in a few dead furries instead of a few pukey ones. 

Just to put it in perspective, if this had been someone with an ACTUAL agenda, it would have been quite worse. 



Nashida said:


> That's a far cry from an accidental spill



Unless you're like a vaudeville actor trying to keep from slipping and spilling your precariously stacked buckets of cleaning chemicals, there's no way you'd coat an entire staircase with it.



Calemeyr said:


> You know, this is going to sound kinda creepy, but what if it was a 4chan type of person? With the #Icantbreathe thing going on, maybe they wanted to do something like this because they thought it was "funny" and "topical".



Like I said, with the shit going on with 4chan these days, I wouldn't put it out of reach.


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## CaptainCool (Dec 7, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> WOW.
> WOOOOOOOOOOOW.
> 
> *WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.*
> ...



It's like all the bad things about the internet are slowly leaking into real life XP


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## RedLeFrench (Dec 7, 2014)

Glad no one is too severely injured. Then again, that is quite worrying to see someone wanting to do that sort of thing. Really hope this is an isolated case and not some group of haters that are so far up their asses in hatred that they want to kill people for what they enjoy. Then again, as said by Troj', it could also be someone that is in the fandom and decided to get back on people because they were being meanies towards him. Given every fandom has its lot of wackjobs, this is also plausible...

I hope the people who are in hospital recover quickly.


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## Gumshoe (Dec 7, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> This is a photo of the staircase.
> 
> "snip"
> 
> ...


Damn, I can tell you from personal experience that inhaling the scent of a 3 inch chlorine tablet is like a nasty punch to the face where you end up spitting.  I can't imagine being exposed to that amount, let alone indoors.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 7, 2014)

Yup, chlorine sucks. Its the reason my parents switched to saltwater for their pool.


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## Calemeyr (Dec 7, 2014)

Could someone have stolen the hotel pool supplies and put the stuff in a jar?


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## Kalmor (Dec 7, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> Could someone have stolen the hotel pool supplies and put the stuff in a jar?


There was no pool at the hotel, if reports are correct.


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## Calemeyr (Dec 7, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> There was no pool at the hotel, if reports are correct.


Oh wow, then someone had to bring that. That's messed up!


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## CaptainCool (Dec 7, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> Oh wow, then someone had to bring that. That's messed up!



It was messed up to begin with, that just makes it eve worse.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 7, 2014)

I'm suspicious that it was a homophobic attack, because nobody really cares about furries, but many furries are gay and there certainly are violent people who want to gas homosexuals. 

I gather we'll wait and see what the investigation turns out, if anything.


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## Calemeyr (Dec 7, 2014)

The weird thing is that powdered chlorine by itself is supposed to be somewhat inert, for safety reasons. It has to be immersed in something to release the chlorine. With the shattered glass, and the fact that no one would spend time dumping chlorine producing substances on the ground (there would be a dead body in the stairwell), it may have been a bomb. Pool chlorine powder mixed with rubbing alcohol sealed in a jar. The calcium carbonate reacts violently and releases CO2 and chlorine. Pressure builds and then the jar explodes (or lid bursts off and jar shatters a bit).

Normally I wouldn't say something like this, but this could be considered an act of domestic terrorism (legally, not the islamist kind). Not done by a "terrorist", but by a whacko. Or at least attempted murder. The police should fingerprint everyone at the con, not letting anyone leave until that's done.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 7, 2014)

It is rather depressing that, when discussing terrorism, we have to use the qualifier 'not the islamist kind'.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 7, 2014)

Two personal friends of mine were at the convention. This day just keeps getting worse. I woke up late, lost my wallet, and now this shit.
I hope someone gets to the perpetrator before the authorities do.


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## Nashida (Dec 7, 2014)

My boyfriend was there, with some good close friends of mine. Thankfully he's fine but I'm still on edge.

I'm more angry now that people on my Facebook feed are griping about cons stepping up security to include searches, especially on people not attending the con but just staying in the hotel. I mean, I'm sorry five minutes of your time is more important than the safety of thousands.


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## Kalmor (Dec 7, 2014)

The story is now the top post of reddit's /r/news.

http://reddit.com/r/news/comments/2ojta9/chlorine_gas_attack_at_chicago_area_furry/


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## RedSavage (Dec 7, 2014)

Probably the first and only time Furries will be at the top of Reddit for a non-sexual reason. :V


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 7, 2014)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> I bet the Al-Qaida did this.


Go with the times, clearly this was Daesh.



Batty Krueger said:


> No one keeps a cleaning agent in a glass fucking jar.


Then you haven't been to the hotels I've been!



Fallowfox said:


> I'm suspicious that it was a homophobic attack,  because nobody really cares about furries, but many furries are gay and  there certainly are violent people who want to gas homosexuals.


Sounds plausible enough. Though the methods involved suggest a lone-wolf wacko who could've done it 'cause the voices in his head told him so or a million other reasons.


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## SparkyWolf (Dec 7, 2014)

OK, the stuff they used in this attack sounds like no cleaning agent. My guess is that it was pure (or close to it) chlorine, and pure chlorine is highly toxic and can form a gas that is an irritant to the respiratory system. I've never heard of a substance like this being used to clean anything.


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## Kalmor (Dec 7, 2014)

SparkyWolf said:


> OK, the stuff they used in this attack sounds like no cleaning agent. My guess is that it was pure (or close to it) chlorine, and pure chlorine is highly toxic and can form a gas that is an irritant to the respiratory system. I've never heard of a substance like this being used to clean anything.



All evidence points towards pool chlorine powder, which is easily purchased by pretty much anyone.

Mix it with rubbing alcohol (like Cal said above) then you have potential for chlorine gas.


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## SparkyWolf (Dec 7, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> All evidence points towards pool chlorine powder, which is easily purchased by pretty much anyone.
> 
> Mix it with rubbing alcohol (like Cal said above) then you have potential for chlorine gas.



That would make sense. But that begs the question, was the stuff taken from the hotel pool room? And if so, are there no security cams in there? Or for that matter in the staircase?


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## Fallowfox (Dec 7, 2014)

SparkyWolf said:


> That would make sense. But that begs the question, was the stuff taken from the hotel pool room? And if so, are there no security cams in there? Or for that matter in the staircase?



The Hotel has no pool.


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## CaptainCool (Dec 7, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> The Hotel has no pool.



And that is the problem.
A hotel could still have a big container with a cleaning product that has chlorine in it but even then dropping it would not result in so many people having to be evacuated.
The cops are thinking this was done with criminal intent for a reason. Cops are lazy, they wouldn't consider investigating this if they had no good reason for it.


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 7, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> All evidence points towards pool chlorine powder, which is easily purchased by pretty much anyone.
> 
> Mix it with rubbing alcohol (like Cal said above) then you have potential for chlorine gas.


Even so, atomic chlorine reacts with water to, if I recall my chemistry classes correctly, hydrochloric acid. The concentrations found in pool water are normally too small to cause injury, but gaseous chlorine like it was used on the Western Front or in this case a powdery chloric compound can easily reach the membranes of the breathing apparatus and damage them. Only the former is usually potent enough to be fatal, fortunately.


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## SparkyWolf (Dec 7, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> Or. Alternatively. This was something much more _personal_ and there are specific persons looking to harm or main a specific somebody/organization in charge of said festivities or what have you.



That would be a VERY nasty way to get revenge... And it's incredibly reckless, it hurts not just the person that you're mad at but it hurts others too.


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## Gushousekai195 (Dec 7, 2014)

The real fursecution has begun....

I worry that FC will be next.  That is a convention I go to all the time.


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## Booker (Dec 7, 2014)

I was impressed most everyone was fairly decent and co-operative, least what I heard from friends there and watching a youtube livestream that someone had going from when the evacuation first started.  Crazy crazy, just waiting to see what really happened or who did it.

 Watching news reports there was one reporter who was having a hard time keeping a straight face while reading her notes on what convention was going on.  Forgot what station


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## Kalmor (Dec 7, 2014)

MFF have released a statement - http://www.furfest.org/Evacuation_Statement


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## lolxd17 (Dec 7, 2014)

Read about this in the news today, too. I've never been to a con, thinking about attending one one day though. But hearing things like that makes my interest into attenting to cons rather decrease, I guess this was a one time thing though and shouldn't happen anywhere else, I hope. Just glad to hear that not more has happened. No matter if that was an attack or only a bad joke, that is seriously not cool...


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## Arec (Dec 7, 2014)

It's on Kotaku now and most of the comments on their post and on their facebook page are hateful. I noticed some of the furryphobes were mentioning the word "gassing" - combine that with "yiff in hell, furries" and you have something like a nazi slogan. Even if it was just an ammateur as some people suggested here, this notion still gives everything a whole new aspect of creepiness.


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## Kalmor (Dec 7, 2014)

Arec said:


> It's on Kotaku now


They're a (really crappy) gaming "news" site, why the hell are they reporting on furries? o-o


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## Ayattar (Dec 7, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> This is a photo of the staircase.



Wow! What a massive cumshot!


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## lolxd17 (Dec 7, 2014)

I noticed from the gaming sites I follow on Facebook that a couple of them often post furry news, whatever the reason for that is and of course you can imagine how the most comments look like, maybe they do that on purpose so that people can rage about something, I dunno.... It's sad, really. :/


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 7, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> They're a (really crappy) gaming "news" site, why the hell are they reporting on furries? o-o


That's Gawker Network for you. They're more like multi-author blogs; whenever a writer feels like it he will post about topics he's interested in. That's why you can find politics editorials on their auto culture site or stuff like this.


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## Troj (Dec 7, 2014)

There are a number of surprisingly sympathetic remarks on Reddit, in addition to the usual Internet HURR SNURR dickery. Thus far, though, the dickery isn't as bad as I was expecting. Same with the Kotaku thread, where several people were called out for joking about the incident.

But, to look that gift horse in the mouth a bit, it does still bother me that people feel the need to preface their sympathetic statements with, "Now, I don't understand furries, but..." or "I'm not into furries, but..." and that one news article even started off with, "Say what you will about furries, but..."

It's sad that people can't just express empathy, sympathy, or condolences without first explaining that they don't understand, like, belong to, or agree with the group of people being empathized or sympathized with. 

I don't think people would need to distance themselves in the same way if the attack had been on an anime con, comic-con, craft fair, or major sporting event, and you _definitely_ wouldn't escape unscathed or un-scrutinized for offering that kind of preamble or aside when talking about an attack on members of an ethnic, racial, cultural, or sexual minority group. (Clarification: Not comparing furries to protected or marginalized groups; just saying that furries are as worthy of empathy as any other innocent group of people.)

I don't know if it reflects on the speaker or the presumed audience more in those cases, but it's still sad.


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## Gushousekai195 (Dec 7, 2014)

I wonder if martial law will prevent attacks like these in the future.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 7, 2014)

Troj said:


> There are a number of surprisingly sympathetic remarks on Reddit, in addition to the usual Internet HURR SNURR dickery. Thus far, though, the dickery isn't as bad as I was expecting. Same with the Kotaku thread, where several people were called out for joking about the incident.
> 
> But, to look that gift horse in the mouth a bit, it does still bother me that people feel the need to preface their sympathetic statements with, "Now, I don't understand furries, but..." or "I'm not into furries, but..." and that one news article even started off with, "Say what you will about furries, but..."
> 
> ...



We're not like an ethnic, racial, cultural or sexual minority group. We are a collection of geeks and perverts, which is why people laugh at us. 

Race and sexual orientation are sensitive matters because real systematic discrimination on those grounds is prolific. People as a whole do little more than poke fun at the furries.


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## Duality Jack (Dec 7, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> We're not like an ethnic, racial, cultural or sexual minority group. We are a collection of geeks and perverts, which is why people laugh at us.


Also why I don't call myself a "Furry" It's not meaningful enough for the headache it causes.


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## Butters Shikkon (Dec 7, 2014)

Troj said:


> I don't know if it reflects on the speaker or the presumed audience more in those cases, but it's still sad.



It's cuz they think we're all horsefuckers. Literally the reason they say that.


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## Brazen (Dec 7, 2014)

Sounds like some good quality trolling to me.


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## Northern-Crosshair (Dec 7, 2014)

I just love the theories people are coming up with. The reality is probably going to be a lot less sinister. Here are my thoughts:

1. Who has recently been banned from the convention or was part of an altercation at the convention in the recent past?
2. Who considered MFF a high point of their year? Who doesn't like them?

This is pretty amateur hour and has spur-of-the-moment written all over it. My bets are that it was someone who was pissed at someone who goes to the con and wanted to screw with them or the con. Given some of the people in this fandom I would not be surprised if it was another fur, in fact I find it highly likely that it was.


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## Troj (Dec 7, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> We're not like an ethnic, racial, cultural or sexual minority group. We are a collection of geeks and perverts, which is why people laugh at us.
> 
> Race and sexual orientation are sensitive matters because real systematic discrimination on those grounds is prolific. People as a whole do little more than poke fun at the furries.



Yes, but in some cases, the "poking fun" _can_ become vicious or dangerous, and when it reaches that point, it doesn't matter _how_ you classify furries, or whether furries as a _group_ are more or less oppressed or marginalized than other groups. What matters is that innocent people have been hurt.

My point is, it's sad and unfortunate that some nonetheless-sympathetic people feel the need to hem, haw, quip, apologize, or equivocate in ways that would be considered inappropriate, unnecessary, uncool, douchey, or concern trollish in situations where _other _types of people were in the line of fire.

To clarify, I'm not saying furries are a horribly oppressed group, and I'm not saying that the _usual_ teasing furries sometimes get is equivalent to what genuinely marginalized minority groups experience on a regular basis. I'm not playing Oppression Olympics here by any means.

It's just unfortunate that even some well-intentioned people continue to see furries in a negative or "ehhh" light, given that most furries are totally benign, and some are really caring, fun, cool, and creative folks. When you allow unchecked and untested assumptions or stereotypes to rule your thinking, everyone loses.



			
				Butters Shikkon said:
			
		

> It's cuz they think we're all horsefuckers. Literally the reason they say that.



Yeah, or by their own admission, they just think the business about dressing up as animals or cartoon characters is "creepy" or "weird," and/or they've confused just being furry with being a therian or an otherkin.

Oh, and when people defend furries on the grounds that everybody has their kinks, or that people should be entitled to their kinks, or that consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want amongst themselves......::::sigh::: Thank you for helping; please stop helping.


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## TrishaCat (Dec 7, 2014)

I saw this earlier today. Its really messed up. Someone literally tried to gas the furries.


RedSavage said:


> Like I said, with the shit going on with 4chan these days, I wouldn't put it out of reach.


Moot is removing /pol/ so I don't think this will be a problem. /pol/ was pretty much the last bastion of "hate everything irrationally", so even if it was a 4chan like person it won't be that way in the future.


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## Kori Okami (Dec 7, 2014)

Criminal case and intentional... heard one of the fursuiters did it...


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 7, 2014)

Who told you that?


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## Kori Okami (Dec 7, 2014)

It was a rumor going around artist alley. Someone said that he was dancing in front of the news crew in his suit saying he did it.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 7, 2014)

Kori Okami said:


> It was a _*rumor*_ going around artist alley. Someone said that he was dancing in front of the news crew in his suit saying he did it.


  At least you acknowledge that it's a rumor.


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## Northern-Crosshair (Dec 7, 2014)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Who told you that?


I would like to know as well. Thus far I have not heard anything about who did it despite knowing several people who have gone to the con. Though as I said before, I fully expect that it was probably another fur that did this. An malicious outsider looking to hurt people would have put more effort into this than "Throw jar of Chlorine powder into stairwell." A troll prankster wouldn't have thought to use pool chemicals. This sort of thing is the MO of someone who is close in some way to someone at the hotel or event.


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## Kori Okami (Dec 7, 2014)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> At least you acknowledge that it's a rumor.



Thats why I said "I heard". I don't acknowledge it as fact, just something I heard. Thats why I didn't name the name I was given.


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## PastryOfApathy (Dec 8, 2014)

Is it bad that I instinctively laughed when I heard about this?


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## mcjoel (Dec 8, 2014)

Not really its kinda hard to believe that someone could have this much hate for goofs who like animal people.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 8, 2014)

Dunno, I was going to talk about the conditions of my stay at FurFright 2012 ("You fart, we're kicking you out into the hall") until I saw that it was a serious thread.


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## Saga (Dec 8, 2014)

I'd be more willing to believe it was something some dumbass fursuiter did. Hell, they're lucky that's the _only _strange substance found in a jar at the hotel.

On a sidenote... 40+ lurkers?


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## Northern-Crosshair (Dec 8, 2014)

mcjoel said:


> Not really its kinda hard to believe that someone could have this much hate for goofs who like animal people.


No, but perfectly believable if you consider the drama that occurs within the fandom. We are not all angels and there is some very real and serious animosity between some people and groups of people in the fandom.

I know it's only natural to think that there is some outsider wanting to come after a group you belong to, but I guarantee that police are going to be focusing their investigation on members of the furry community because odds are that is where they will find the perpetrator.


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## Northern-Crosshair (Dec 8, 2014)

Saga said:


> I'd be more willing to believe it was something some dumbass fursuiter did. Hell, they're lucky that's the _only _strange substance found in a jar at the hotel.


Yea, doing contract work in jails I hear about stuff like this all the time.

Woman threw a can of butane into a campfire their ex was sitting next to, boyfriend dumping gasoline into ex's mail slot, leaving antifreeze out for a neighbors pets, lots of people do stupid things to get back at people for stupid reasons and the only thing you can be thankful for is that they didn't actually sit down and put more thought into what they were going to do and cause even more damage.


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## IAN (Dec 8, 2014)

And I was laughed at for saying someone would be willing to commit a mass attack on a furry con:

https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre...-being-a-fur?p=4011932&viewfull=1#post4011932

I'm still waiting for the day there's a report of a bomber/mass shooter and deaths are involved.


I think what no one is acknowledging at all is the fact that this substance can be used to make certain types of BOMBS (don't know which, not gonna risk the NSA tracking me down over a Google search). It wouldn't surprise me if yet another fuckwad tried to make an explosive like the guy from AC this past year but ended up failing, and resorting to attempting to poison via chlorine.


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## Croconaw (Dec 8, 2014)

^

Uh, mass attack? I thought this was relatively lame to be considered a "mass attack". And for all we know, this could've been caused by a furry who got kicked out of his shag room for being too much of a loser and decided to take out his rage on the convention as a whole. 


I don't want to assume anything until the official facts and culprit is found. I believe my prior proposal sounds more plausible than an attack by a "radical hater", seeing how their's an alarmingly high amount of pool boys in the fandom.


But what do I know? I'm just a Croc.


Tl;dr- we need a riot.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Dec 8, 2014)

I've got a jar of dirt chlorine, I've got a jar of chlorine, I've g- well shit, it fell from the top of the staircase and went into tiny pieces. I'll blame the jews for this and run.

Next day news: intentional gassing.
I really love it how this thing has blown out of proportions. To me it looks like as if someone got shoved or pushed at the top of the staircase and he'd flung the jar out.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 8, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> Those damn Al-Kite-uhs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, considering it happened on the last day of the con early in the am. If it was a pro it would have been done on Friday or Saturday at an earlier time with the addition of muriatic acid. My hubs thinks it was a butthurt guest at the hotel, furry or not. I don't know what to think about it.


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## PastryOfApathy (Dec 8, 2014)

You know what I just realized? This shit's gonna spawn a bunch of random news reports for retards to overreact to. It's 2009 all over again praise furfag Jesus.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 8, 2014)

Meh, it could have been a lot worse. I might get a gas mask in case some fuckbag wants to do that at FC. But I'm afraid if something does happen and I'm the only one with a gas mask I'll be targeted as a suspect.


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## Fermata (Dec 8, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> This is a photo of the staircase.
> 
> -Sssssnip-
> 
> That doesn't look like an itty bitty accidental spill to me. So no, I don't think so.



Jesus fuck, That was_ way_ more than I was picturing would be able to fit in a glass jar. Now it makes sense that people got sick.

I hope the furs who were hospitalized are okay.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 8, 2014)

Chlorine powder is nasty shit. I used to work with it when I had a job cleaning pools.


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## FrostPaw22 (Dec 8, 2014)

The news media is going to take this the wrong way. And demonize, and open the fandom to the general public. It will take a master of public relations to fix the misconceptions.

Who's up to the job?


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## PastryOfApathy (Dec 8, 2014)

Holy lel
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/0...a-hotel-hosting-furries-convention-sickens-1/


*EDIT:* But wait there's more!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/07/us/illinois-furry-convention-evacuation/index.html?iref=allsearch



Kalmor said:


> Fox news actually being sane? Am I alive?



Well it _was _ripped straight from the Associated Press.


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## Kalmor (Dec 8, 2014)

FrostPaw22 said:


> The news media is going to take this the wrong way. And demonize, and open the fandom to the general public. It will take a master of public relations to fix the misconceptions.
> 
> Who's up to the job?


The vast majority of media outlets (apart from the usual suspects(tm)) have been okay so far.

Calm down.

Edit: @pastry Fox news actually being sane? Am I alive?


----------



## FrostPaw22 (Dec 8, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> Edit: @pastry Fox news actually being sane? Am I alive?



well of course FOX news is keeping sane on this issue. Rush Limbaugh is obviously the ugliest fat fur in the closet. Their keeping it cool cuz they don't want to out themselves. But they should. That would make Jon Stewert's and my day


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 8, 2014)

Calm your tits, everyone.

I'm sure if we wait just long enough, their "commentators" will find some impartial, reasonable words for the incident.


----------



## cuba1980s (Dec 8, 2014)

I just heard about what happened at MWFF today while eating breakfast a few hours ago on the news. 

Yikes...
I hope the victims are okay.

Shit like that is just plain awful... stuff that harms people one way or another, that's just plain rude! 

What also was bad was that the container that the compound had been sealed in was a glass jar. Along with the noxious fumes, the shards could also have punctured someone who had been climbing the stairs (especially in a fursuit, where vision can be obstructed.)

Thankfully the situation had been handled well!
I hope that after this incident, it will lead to an increase in security for future cons. (Such as baggage checks and such.)

Despite this unfortunate turn of events, I hope everyone else who attended this year's MWFF had a great time!


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 8, 2014)

Batty Krueger said:


> Chlorine powder is nasty shit. I used to work with it when I had a job cleaning pools.



Chlorine gas in the lungs is the worse way to die.
It can react with the fluids in your lungs and can be lethal if left untreated.


----------



## cuba1980s (Dec 8, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Chlorine gas in the lungs is the worse way to die.
> It can react with the fluids in your lungs and can be lethal if left untreated.



Yeah, I remember learning about it being used in large quantities in World War I. Yeek. Scary stuff.

It's... rather interesting that we still use it in pools (though I think it's saturated? So it's not as potent and potentially lethal. Though accidentally ingesting it along with pool water can cause vomiting... I learned that the hard way at age seven... What a fun weekend that was.)


----------



## Armored Chocobo (Dec 8, 2014)

I was made aware of this of one of the people on my Steam list, and he was reveling in it. Sure, his body and soul is pretty much corrupted by 4chan, but that's not something you read in a paper and say "good for them!". EVER.

I don't care how much people hate furries, it's not okay to do stuff like this, this prank could have easily killed someone.


----------



## Fallowfox (Dec 8, 2014)

cuba1980s said:


> I just heard about what happened at MWFF today while eating breakfast a few hours ago on the news.
> 
> Yikes...
> *I hope the victims are okay.
> ...



They were all okay. <3


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 8, 2014)

Armored Chocobo said:


> I was made aware of this of one of the people on my Steam list, and he was reveling in it. Sure, his body and soul is pretty much corrupted by 4chan, but that's not something you read in a paper and say "good for them!". EVER.
> 
> I don't care how much people hate furries, it's not okay to do stuff like this, this prank could have easily killed someone.



I am sure that if it happened at Dragon*Con, Anime Weekend Atlanta, or SDCC, no one would be laughing.


----------



## Troj (Dec 8, 2014)

I will admit that I chuckled at one of the comments on, I think, Reddit, where someone said that Victor Vivisector must be trying to build another parking lot on the top of the Hyatt. Well played, commenter, wherever you are!

Since I enjoy tracking these sorts of things for my own edification, I'd  say the most hostile and shitty comments so far are on FreeRepublic (to  the surprise of exactly no one) and, surprisingly, NPR. Kotaku and Reddit are largely mixed.

The most positive and supportive comments I've come across so far were  probably on Buzzfeed and Jezebel. (The Buzzfeed thread also contains an  amusing example of a troll being trolled. Delicious.)

On the whole, I'd say the _general _widespread response to this  still gives me some hope for humanity. I can at least give people credit  and kudos for trying convey the right emotions.

I've just been especially raw and sensitive lately to people concern-trolling about why somebody being injured or killed really wasn't THAT big of a deal, because "those people" kinda sorta maybe have it coming because of the awful things THEY do and blah blah blah. Regardless of who that sort of rhetoric is aimed at, I've definitely had my fill of it lately. So, if I seem particularly tetchy right now, that's what's going on there.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 8, 2014)

Ok, so I was actually there for this. 

My roomie and I were hanging out in our room when her boyfriend went down to the rave. He texted her saying the fire alarm was going off. We kinda shrugged it off because it wasn't going off in our room, and the fire alarm had been pulled as a prank during cons before (acen 2012 anyone?) Then OUR fire alarm went off, so we kinda groaned and put our shoes on and went downstairs. we were kinda laughing about it, still thinking it was a prank, then I heard the words "gas leak."

we got to the lobby and the place REEKED of it. All of the emergency workers where there, ushuring us out quickly yelling THIS IS NOT A DRILL!! and what not. That's when I got kinda shaken up. So we were all outside, then ushered back inside by the rave, then ushered back outside, then  FINALLY we got inside the con across the street. A few of my friends where in neighboring hotels that were taking people. What a lot of reports aren't saying is that there was actually a dog show happening that weekend, so there were all these dogs in  cages freaking out at the sudden rush of people. 

we waited in that con place for about three hours. NOBODY was telling us ANYTHING. there were rumors, but that's all there were. all of the officials where keeping their mouths SHUT. I guess they didn't want to incite panic, which was smart. Finally they ushered us back in about 4:30 am without incident. All of us where in the dark about it until the next morning when news stories started popping up. 

The whole thing was surreal. Uncle Kage was ushering people in, giant wine glass in hand of course. Fire trucks came from EVERYWHERE. People in fursuits where passing out. My friend possibly saved a guy's life who was passing out. everyone was like "oh he's just drunk" but my friend had a bit of medical training and knew enough to take him to get medical treatment. turns out he was poisoned by the gas. There was a hazmat team with a decontamination truck. But I have to say, the level of panic was pretty much at 0. everybody stayed calm and listened to the workers, and stayed organized. No real fights broke out or anything. we were all just mingling in the con space lol. 

but yea, just thought you'd be interested in my point of view of being there. It was nuts, but the hotel offered to cover hospital bills, which was awesome on their part. The next day went on, just as planned. so whatever asshat that did it hoping to cancel the rest of the con completely failed and I cant wait until they throw his or her shitty little ass in jail. 

actually the worst thing about this whole scenario is the amount of people laughing at this, saying we deserved to get gassed and die. I had to shut off facebook for the day because I was tired of defending my right to be alive just because I have a hobby others dont like :/


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 8, 2014)

Troj said:


> Since I enjoy tracking these sorts of things for my own edification, I'd  say the most hostile and shitty comments so far are on FreeRepublic (to  the surprise of exactly no one) and, surprisingly, NPR. Kotaku and Reddit are largely mixed.



I am surprised that hostile comments show up on NPR of all places. >.>


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## cuba1980s (Dec 8, 2014)

Christ...

I probably would have panicked, knowing me.
Also yeah screw those jerks on Facebook. Like they know better.


----------



## Troj (Dec 8, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> I am surprised that hostile comments show up on NPR of all places. >.>



I was too, but right out the gate, it seemed like well over half of the comments contained some level of derision or snark, when I looked.

As for the mainstream media, I'm seeing minor errors here and there (like saying MFF is also known as Anthrocon) and awkward (but usually basically-accurate) explanations of the fandom, but the coverage I've seen has been respectful overall. I don't think we need to worry about the mainstream media mocking victims of a potentially-deadly event that could be defined as an attempted terrorist attack.


----------



## IAN (Dec 8, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> I am surprised that hostile comments show up on NPR of all places. >.>


 The greatest irony of all of it is that it's always Liberals/leftists who are the biggest furry "haters." Yeah there are the overly Conservative parents who see it as a "sin" but that's different.

Like hell, the biggest leftist-looney on a forum I used to frequent (and eventually trolled til I was banned because of the idiotic userbase) who put words into the mouths of Republican candidates and said that all legal-gun owners should have been held responsible for the Sandy-Hook shooting, was easily the most hostile furry-hater anyone could ever encounter.

No matter what fact you could shove into his face that furries weren't mindless animal-fuckers with no morals and all deserved to be thrown in concentration camps, he'd [figuratively] plug his ears going "lalalala" like a first grader ignoring all of it and still holding his bullshit standpoint. 


Or maybe I shouldn't say it's ironic, considering the strong-left wing usually acts that way with everything, including solid statistical evidence. xD


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 8, 2014)

IAN said:


> The greatest irony of all of it is that it's always Liberals/leftists who are the biggest furry "haters." Yeah there are the overly Conservative parents who see it as a "sin" but that's different.
> 
> Like hell, the biggest leftist-looney on a forum I used to frequent (and eventually trolled til I was banned because of the idiotic userbase) who put words into the mouths of Republican candidates and said that all legal-gun owners should have been held responsible for the Sandy-Hook shooting, was easily the most hostile furry-hater anyone could ever encounter.
> 
> ...




Though Tumblr has most of the super liberals on their site and overall they've been highly sympathetic, so it isn't really much a political issue here. It's a bunch of sociopaths people who thinks gassing a furry con is the best idea since toilet paper. So let's not derail it into a political issue that you'd see on yahoo and aol news. It's stupid. Beyond stupid.



Troj said:


> I was too, but right out the gate, it seemed like well over half of the comments contained some level of derision or snark, when I looked.
> 
> As for the mainstream media, I'm seeing minor errors here and there (like saying MFF is also known as Anthrocon) and awkward (but usually basically-accurate) explanations of the fandom, but the coverage I've seen has been respectful overall. I don't think we need to worry about the mainstream media mocking victims of a potentially-deadly event that _could _even be defined as an attempted terrorist attack.



Form what i can identify, there are some jokes in there like "It must have been the scalies" that only a furry would say.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 8, 2014)

Troj said:


> I was too, but right out the gate, it seemed like well over half of the comments contained some level of derision or snark, when I looked.
> 
> As for the mainstream media, I'm seeing minor errors here and there (like saying MFF is also known as Anthrocon) and awkward (but usually basically-accurate) explanations of the fandom, but the coverage I've seen has been respectful overall. I don't think we need to worry about the mainstream media mocking victims of a potentially-deadly event that _could _even be defined as an attempted terrorist attack.



one report said "it was a sci-fi convention, which is why you're seeing animal costumes."
I chocked on my coffee I laughed so hard.


----------



## Troj (Dec 8, 2014)

Oh, rest assured, the right-wingers at Freep and a few sites like it are being disgusting and hateful as usual, because being hateful and disgusting is their _raison d'Ãªtre_.

So, I wouldn't say it's _always_ liberals--especially since the people at lefty Jezebel are being very nice and sympathetic right now--_but_ it does always strike as ironic when ostensibly left-learning folks bash furries using some of the same language and arguments liberals normally abhor and decry, when applied to other groups. 

I was probably _more _struck by the comments on NPR because of my expectations going in. Upon re-browse, it's not _that_ awful at the moment, but it's just not as highbrow a conversation as I was expecting from NPR listeners. (And maybe I have a stereotype of NPR listeners that needs to be revised.)

So, I don't think it's limited to one political faction or party or another, by any means. 

(I think the dumbest anti-furry sentiment I've encountered recently was that furries are clearly unhinged because they dress up when it's not Halloween. The commenter added that, indeed, adults shouldn't even dress up on Halloween, because that is a holiday reserved for children. I presume that they then left to watch the Lawrence Welk Show and eat Grape Nuts.)


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 8, 2014)

Some interesting insights straight from the source:



> Well, no matter who was behind it, or how poorly it was planned, the  result is still the same.  There were over 50 emergency vehicles, we got  evac'd to four separate sites outside the hotel, 19 people were  hospitalized and one of those was in a bad condition (but has since been  released) due to previous exposure in Iraq/Afghanistan.
> 
> Whoever  did this is going to get a nice long trip to jail, and probably have to  pay some massive restitution.    We had the DHS, FBI, Hazmat FBI,  Hazmat DHS, O'Hare police, TSA (as there WERE pilots and operating crew  in this hotel and it is close to ORD) and a wide variety of other people  take an interest in this, within hours of it happening at 1AM on a  sleepy sunday morning.
> 
> I'd wager this story's not going away.


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## craftyfox92 (Dec 8, 2014)

we have been targeted by ISIS!


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 8, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Chlorine gas in the lungs is the worse way to die.
> It can react with the fluids in your lungs and can be lethal if left untreated.


I don't want my lungs filled with blisters from hell


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 8, 2014)

craftyfox92 said:


> we have been targeted by ISIS!


Why hello there, you must have accidentally typed in the wrong URL.

Here you go!


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## craftyfox92 (Dec 8, 2014)

thanks i was afraid for a second there!!


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## FrostPaw22 (Dec 8, 2014)

What is important is that we give sympathy to all of those who were affected, and that they recover quickly and safely.


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## Zerig (Dec 8, 2014)

oy vey its the shoah all over again!

 remember the 19 billion gassed by the evil trolls, they got my grandmother, she was only 6 years old!


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## Troj (Dec 8, 2014)

I will say that I'll be super-pissed if this turns out to be the work of a drunken idiot  or a disgruntled nut at the con, because it will effectively quash and squander all of the good will and sympathy that's being directed at the fandom (awkward or no) at this time. 

If that turns out to be the case, I think the fandom should absolutely demand that the offender apologize to the world at large for wasting everyone's time and embarrassing the whole damn fandom (whether or not that apology is actually forthcoming).


----------



## Batty Krueger (Dec 8, 2014)

Troj said:


> I will say that I'll be super-pissed if this turns out to be the work of a drunken idiot  or a disgruntled nut at the con, because it will effectively quash and squander all of the good will and sympathy that's being directed at the fandom (awkward or no) at this time.
> 
> If that turns out to be the case, I think the fandom should absolutely demand that the offender apologize to the world at large for wasting everyone's time and embarrassing the whole damn fandom (whether or not that apology is actually forthcoming).



This was done on purpose, there is no reason to have powered chlorine in a glass jar, for any reason. We used plastic buckets to transfer chlorine in any form when I worked with the pool company. Keeping something like that in glass is just unheard of, unless you are planning on doing a smash and run.


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## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 8, 2014)

oh I wish I wish I trusted fish!


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## IAN (Dec 8, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Though Tumblr has most of the super liberals on  their site and overall they've been highly sympathetic


 Point  taken, though they're sympathetic of practically anyone who's not a  heterosexual cis-gendered white male.

But also Tumblr folks actually have morals, the people from the site I frequented and got banned from had none and pretty much tried to be the next 4chan with a musician's twist.




Troj said:


> Oh, rest assured, the right-wingers at Freep and a few sites like it are being disgusting and hateful as usual, because being hateful and disgusting is their _raison d'Ãªtre_.
> 
> So, I wouldn't say it's _always_ liberals--especially since the people at lefty Jezebel are being very nice and sympathetic right now--_but_ it does always strike as ironic when ostensibly left-learning folks bash furries using some of the same language and arguments liberals normally abhor and decry, when applied to other groups.



Maybe it's wrong to say all leftists, just the ones that take it to the extreme. Which can also be applied to the extremest Conservative right (the ones that disown their kids for being a furry and shit). 

I think in the case of a person that takes their beliefs to the extreme, that tells enough about them as it is. And their strong deathwish opinions on a group they simply dislike should not surprise anyone.


Honestly this type of furry hate no matter what is just absurd, and I hate you can't complain about furry-hate without sounding like a social-outcast highschooler who uses the fandom for acceptance and his confused sexuality. 

But seriously, not liking the acts or products of the furry fandom no matter what you say translates to "I DON'T LIKE THING" or "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE". If you want someone DEAD over something like that, you need some serious psychological help.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Dec 8, 2014)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> oh I wish I wish I trusted fish!



But the omega threes!


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## Troj (Dec 8, 2014)

Oh, I don't doubt it was done on purpose, but I can definitely see someone backpedaling and claiming they did it just for lulz.



			
				Ian said:
			
		

> Honestly this type of furry hate no matter what is just absurd, and I  hate you can't complain about furry-hate without sounding like a  social-outcast highschooler who uses the fandom for acceptance and his  confused sexuality.



Though, when browsing the Interwebz regarding the attack, I did notice that people generally weren't accused of being "butthurt" or "furfags" (or even, "butthurt furfags") for expressing anger, sadness, or sympathy at the event, or trying to explain the fandom. So, either those types of comments were being deleted, or that kind of gaslighting is falling out of vogue. Yay!

I can remember the days when even remotely sticking up for furries (and some other groups, too, mind you) on some forums or websites would earn you a spot on the pyre next to the other condemned witches. I'm sure that still happens some places, of course, and "Now I hate furries as much as the next red-blooded American, but maybe gassing them to death is a trifle unethical"-type stuff is just people testing the waters and trying to avoid being trolled.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Dec 8, 2014)

craftyfox92 said:


> we have been targeted by ISIS!



It was obviously LAAF.


----------



## Rivercoon (Dec 8, 2014)

Figuring that the picture was taken after people where let back in what you are seeing is not the chlorine powder but probably something the haz-mat people would have spread to pick up any residual that may have soaked into the concrete.


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## craftyfox92 (Dec 8, 2014)

we have no chance!!!


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## Northern-Crosshair (Dec 8, 2014)

Troj said:


> I will say that I'll be super-pissed if this turns out to be the work of a drunken idiot  or a disgruntled nut at the con, because it will effectively quash and squander all of the good will and sympathy that's being directed at the fandom (awkward or no) at this time.
> 
> If that turns out to be the case, I think the fandom should absolutely demand that the offender apologize to the world at large for wasting everyone's time and embarrassing the whole damn fandom (whether or not that apology is actually forthcoming).


Just be prepared to be disappointed because as I've mentioned before, it is probably going to be a fur or someone closely related to a fur that did this. Stuff fitting this MO is surprisingly common, but usually only hurts one or two people, if any at all, so they don't make the news. It is also rare for something like this to NOT be done by someone close to the people or organization targeted.

The police are MOST CERTAINLY going to be combing these forums and other sites. I've been telling people I know who were there not to say anything about it that you wouldn't want shown in a courtroom and I recommend other do the same. I do not envy the people who are going to be stuck sorting through the drama that is the furry fandom, looking for potential suspects.

Thankfully I haven't really seen anyone shooting their mouth off in a way that is going to cause them trouble. So that's good. All that does is tie up police time from finding the person who actually did it.


----------



## Xela-Dasi (Dec 8, 2014)

Later there will litterally be a burning furry


----------



## mcjoel (Dec 8, 2014)

I've been hearing a *Rumor *going around that someone has been taken into custody.


----------



## Fermata (Dec 8, 2014)

IAN said:


> But also Tumblr folks actually have morals, the people from the site I frequented and got banned from had none and pretty much tried to be the next 4chan with a musician's twist.


Well now I'm curious. What site is this, or would you rather not say?

Also, rumors, hmm? From where?


----------



## Lemanic (Dec 9, 2014)

IAN said:


> Point  taken, though they're sympathetic of practically anyone who's not a  heterosexual cis-gendered white male.
> 
> But also *Tumblr folks actually have morals*, the people from the site I frequented and got banned from had none and pretty much tried to be the next 4chan with a musician's twist.




LOL. You mean sheltered politically motivated bullies whom condescendingly sees furry fandom as toddler culture and therefore threatens to doxx anyone who puts any complex conflicts and adult satire in it because "THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!". Tumblr has become the new hideout for pretentious soccer moms. No doubt about it.


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## Ozriel (Dec 9, 2014)

IAN said:


> Point  taken, though they're sympathetic of practically anyone who's not a  heterosexual cis-gendered white male.
> 
> But also Tumblr folks actually have morals, the people from the site I frequented and got banned from had none and pretty much tried to be the next 4chan with a musician's twist.



The cosplay circuit on tumblr (which is not the insane crowd) actually posted it from furries who are on the site. So...


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## Sweetheartz22 (Dec 9, 2014)

Charge these sick bastards with animal cruelty >:V

But, seriously, this is fucked up. Why would you go so far as poison a large crowd of people you have no beef with?! It's things like this that get me fired up SMH don't even get me started on the Huffpost video showing new anchors laughing while they talked about the incident...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...es-awkward-morning-joe-segment_n_6288468.html


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## PlusThirtyOne (Dec 9, 2014)

Can i admit that i found the news footage funny, though, without getting shat on? Please? Of course it's a terrible thing to happen but i laughed SO hard at the footage of all the costumes out on the street! So cute! i caught a lot of shit for laughing out loud but dammit if that confused looking bear (?) doesn't at least make you smile, you have no soul.
He's just lookin' around like, "Well, shoot. Now what?"


----------



## Armored Chocobo (Dec 9, 2014)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> Can i admit that i found the news footage funny, though, without getting shat on? Please? Of course it's a terrible thing to happen but i laughed SO hard at the footage of all the costumes out on the street! So cute! i caught a lot of shit for laughing out loud but dammit if that confused looking bear (?) doesn't at least make you smile, you have no soul.
> He's just lookin' around like, "Well, shoot. Now what?"



The problem is that some people are saying it's funny because furries got gassed.

I do admit the situation it caused was ridiculous.


----------



## Sweetheartz22 (Dec 9, 2014)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> Can i admit that i found the news footage funny, though, without getting shat on? Please? Of course it's a terrible thing to happen but i laughed SO hard at the footage of all the costumes out on the street! So cute! i caught a lot of shit for laughing out loud but dammit if that confused looking bear (?) doesn't at least make you smile, you have no soul.
> He's just lookin' around like, "Well, shoot. Now what?"



The bear's not the one that caught my attention. It was the tiger in the blue prom dress. Now, THAT'S a backstory I want to hear!


----------



## Troj (Dec 9, 2014)

I think there's a critical difference between "laughing with" and "laughing at."

I'd say most fursuiters enjoy it when people chuckle, gasp, or guffaw in surprise and delight at seeing them. You'll never lose me in a crowd, because wherever I go, the sounds of EEEEEEEEEE IT'S STITCH OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD follow .

What most people are objecting to, though, is that the MSNBC video and it's myriad re-postings have a flavor and an undertone of laughing _at_ furries in a way that strikes folks as especially mean in the wake of an event like this.

I think there's also a critical difference between group insiders making a joke, and group outsiders making a joke. When an insider to a group cracks a joke about something affecting that group, they presumably recognize the stakes and the boundaries there, and other people know where their allegiances likely lie in the grand scheme of theings. Outsiders are a different story.

Once all 19 people are healthy and back to normal, then we'll be in  the clear zone for jokes, I think. For example, it _is_ quite hilarious  that the furries ended up invading a dog show at the local convention  center.

Well, and my other visceral response is that people should really be laughing at these news anchors for being such fucking _newbs. _You're a news anchor who regularly reports on strange, sad, and terrifying world events, and you lose it at the idea of people dressing up like cartoon animals? Really? Is your personal webpage also hosted by Geocities? Do you watch movies on Betamax? Have you gotten the memo about gay people existing, too?

(Even more, do you r_ead any notes_ or do _any goddamn_ research on your stories before just blithely reading whatever someone puts on a teleprompter like Ron Burgundy?)

Granted, I once watched a guy crucify his own dick to a piece of wood as part of a performance art piece, so my sense of what people should be savvy to by now is probably a touch skewed.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 9, 2014)

I've seen chestnuts like "LAUGHING IS A COPING MECHANISM" tossed around liberally in comments sections around the web. As if...

And people wonder why the world's as fucked up as it is.


----------



## DragonsRevenge (Dec 9, 2014)

Anytime the furry community gets mainstream attention, it elicits chuckles from those who aren't familiar with it.  Whether furries think its normal, grown men and women in animal costumes prancing around like goofs is pretty damn silly.  So when they read "something something furry, something something furry convention," it's going to be one of those weird, funny believe it or don't type news blurbs.

I think the entire thing is hilarious, and seeing Mika's reaction just shows silly the entire fursuit thing really is. You can't blame her at all. 

And let's face it, I'm sure there's furries somewhere who have some gas-inhalation fetish.


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## DragonsRevenge (Dec 9, 2014)

Troj;4983351
Well said:
			
		

> newbs. [/I]You're a news anchor who regularly reports on strange, sad, and terrifying world events, and you lose it at the idea of people dressing up like cartoon animals? Really? .



If you can't see how hilarious that sentence is, then I'm sorry for you.


----------



## Troj (Dec 9, 2014)

Uh, other than it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, _in addition_ to making a point? 

Look--if you're a reporter or newscaster who can't handle something as low-level weird as furries, you're awfully damn sheltered, and your mind will be REALLY blown if you're exposed to any of the higher-level weird things that exist in the world. (But, I guess morning show-types are hired mostly because they're cute n' perky, and not because they're broad-minded, well-traveled or well-read. Probably helps if they aren't these things, actually.)

And, they failed to get a pop culture/Internet culture memo that a lot of people have had since about 1995, and that makes the pop/Internet culture snob in me roll my eyes--hence, "ugh, newbies."


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## RTDragon (Dec 9, 2014)

Well remember this was not surprising at all. This spreading on the news though i am concerned at what could happen at other cons next year.


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## Fermata (Dec 9, 2014)

So Kamunt, who was one of the furs that got hospitalized and sickened from the incident, told their account of what happened on reddit. Thought I'd post it here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comments/2opo1f/i_was_on_the_ninth_floor_of_the_hyatt_at_mwff/

Pretty crazy stuff.


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## IAN (Dec 9, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Well remember this was not surprising at all. This spreading on the news though i am concerned at what could happen at other cons next year.



I'm STILL waiting for the day I hear about a mass shooting/bombing to occur at a con. Hell at AC when I heard of the bomb threat and that explosive ingredients were stolen around the area I was waiting for an explosion to happen at any given time while I was there.

All of this is almost making me worried to attend any more fur cons with the risk of getting shot or blown up by a mentally-derranged 4chan loser.


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## Ozriel (Dec 9, 2014)

IAN said:


> I'm STILL waiting for the day I hear about a mass shooting/bombing to occur at a con. Hell at AC when I heard of the bomb threat and that explosive ingredients were stolen around the area I was waiting for an explosion to happen at any given time while I was there.
> 
> All of this is almost making me worried to attend any more fur cons with the risk of getting shot or blown up by a mentally-derranged 4chan loser.



Or a furry who's also derranged enough to do something like that.
We had a member here (Who I will not mention the name) who openly admitted to wanting to go to AC and "shoot the popufurs of FAF who have wronged him".  Anyone who is psychologically fucked have the potential of doing something abbhorent like that.


----------



## IAN (Dec 9, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Or a furry who's also derranged enough to do something like that.
> We had a member here (Who I will not mention the name) who openly admitted to wanting to go to AC and "shoot the popufurs of FAF who have wronged him".  Anyone who is psychologically fucked have the potential of doing something abbhorent like that.


 Knowing how goddamn unstable a lot furries are in the head that doesn't surprise me that someone would go that insane. 

Hell, this year's anthrocon I was worried because a mentally-disabled furry who was like, every negative furry stereotype combined into one person and happened to be a member of a forum which I ended up becoming a troll on, was attending the same convention.


----------



## RedSavage (Dec 9, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Or a furry who's also derranged enough to do something like that.
> We had a member here (Who I will not mention the name) who openly admitted to wanting to go to AC and "shoot the popufurs of FAF who have wronged him".  Anyone who is psychologically fucked have the potential of doing something abbhorent like that.




-wrongs all the lower pleb users-


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 9, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Or a furry who's also derranged enough to do something like that.
> We had a member here (Who I will not mention the name) who openly admitted to wanting to go to AC and "shoot the popufurs of FAF who have wronged him".  Anyone who is psychologically fucked have the potential of doing something abbhorent like that.


 Hence my desire to see them driven out of the fandom, along with their defenders.
We shouldn't be expected to put up with monstrosities like the ones described by IAN and yourself. Sadly, a lot of furries will go on cooing and coddling, even if we start seeing fatalities.


----------



## mcjoel (Dec 9, 2014)

Down with the popufurs !


----------



## Machine (Dec 9, 2014)

Maybe it was a furry with a chlorine inhalation fetish.


----------



## Xela-Dasi (Dec 9, 2014)

IAN said:


> I'm STILL waiting for the day I hear about a mass shooting/bombing to occur at a con. Hell at AC when I heard of the bomb threat and that explosive ingredients were stolen around the area I was waiting for an explosion to happen at any given time while I was there.



Duuude, imagine your at a con and the last thing you see is people running everywhere and shots being fired. I think the people that would have survived would just quit the fandom


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Dec 10, 2014)

Sweetheartz22 said:


> Charge these sick bastards with animal cruelty >:V
> 
> But, seriously, this is fucked up. Why would you go so far as poison a large crowd of people you have no beef with?! It's things like this that get me fired up SMH don't even get me started on the Huffpost video showing new anchors laughing while they talked about the incident...
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...es-awkward-morning-joe-segment_n_6288468.html



Thank you, that was fucking amazing.


----------



## Croconaw (Dec 10, 2014)

Sweetheartz22 said:


> Charge these sick bastards with animal cruelty >:V
> 
> But, seriously, this is fucked up. Why would you go so far as poison a large crowd of people you have no beef with?! It's things like this that get me fired up SMH don't even get me started on the Huffpost video showing new anchors laughing while they talked about the incident...
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...es-awkward-morning-joe-segment_n_6288468.html



If I were reporting on a story like this and I were clueless to what furries were, I'd be dying on the floor from laughing so hard when that media footage rolled on screen. Seriously the entire concept of people dressed up as animals is really rediculous and so outlandish that it would catch anyone off guard.


----------



## cutiepyro (Dec 10, 2014)

I literally just heard about this, and I have to say that I hope everyone's alright. Some people were hospitalized and all, but they got treatment right away so they'll be more than okay. I just want to everyone who was affected or even near that area to know about my condolences for the whole situation. Whoever did this, whether furry or not, is not in the right set of mind. I'm sorry that anyone at all had to go through this. Well, school is happening for me. I'll check back on this later


----------



## Gushousekai195 (Dec 10, 2014)

Xela-Dasi said:


> Duuude, imagine your at a con and the last thing you see is people running everywhere and shots being fired. I think the people that would have survived would just quit the fandom



Oh, God.  Now I am really scared.  Please don't think about such a thing.  It just allocates more energy toward it actually happening.  Our thoughts create our reality.


----------



## Wesha (Dec 11, 2014)

In my spirit of "making every life experience a learning experience", I'll delve into a bit of details here.

"Powdered chlorine" is layman's term for Calcium hypochlorite, which easily decomposes, releasing chlorine gas either upon heating:

    Ca(ClO)â‚‚ â†’ CaO + *Clâ‚‚*

or reacting with atmospheric carbon dioxide:

    2Ca(ClO)â‚‚ + 2COâ‚‚ â†’ 2CaCOâ‚ƒ + *2Clâ‚‚* + 2Oâ‚‚

In other words, bringing a jar of "powdered chlorine" somewhere and then activating it (with heat, COâ‚‚, or just atmospheric air, which already contains some COâ‚‚) is much easier and safer (for the handler, that is) than bringing a canister of compressed chlorine gas (which is not all that easy to acquire to begin with).

Now, being even more powerful oxidizer than oxygen, chlorine gas is capable to steal the hydrogen atom from the oxygen's bond in water and have it all to itself, ending you up with chloric acid:

    2Clâ‚‚ + Hâ‚‚O â‡„ HCl + HClO

Given that lungs are, quite obviously, somewhat wet, introducing chlorine gas to one's lungs immediately creates tiny droplets of chloric acid inside. Just think about it. Chloric acid (one of the strongest acids, mind you.) _In your lungs_.


Now, chemistry aside, I'll talk about my own experience.

2 and Kage's show ended slightly past midnight, and I went back to my room (43x, I believe that would be the southwest tower, but I might be mistaken, as I didn't have a compass on me). As I was a few steps away from the room, the alarms went off in the stairwell. I was highly surprised by the fact that they were *just* in the stairwell and not in the room itself (unlike other hotels where I was unfortunate to be woken up by the alarms), and was wondering if it's just a test or something. I went into the room, and then one of my roommates received a text about chlorine smell and evacuation, so we went down the stairs.

As I got out into into the 2nd floor lobby (the level where O'h is), I clearly smelled chlorine. Not a threatening concentration, but I _know_ what chlorine gas smells like, so I quickly made it out into the street.

Out there, I crossed over to the other side of the street. A short while passed without any events worth mentioning, but then I saw a female fursuiter on the ground, with a large male over her. That once again confirmed the sad truth Uncle Kage mentioned more than once: with a fursuiter, it is really hard to tell whether s/he is having fun, or seizures. I'm no medical professional, but it looked so much more like the latter (I believe it was a panic attack) so I ran to summon paramedics (thankfully, there were more than enough ambulances around).

GUYS! IT IS HARD TO TELL HOW MUCH RESPECT I HAVE FOR FURRY FANDOM IN REGARDS TO OUR ABILITY TO SELF ORGANIZE AND HANDLE THINGS! By the time I came back with the paramedic, there were at least 2 other furs by that fursuiter who said they have ER training. I went to make way in the crowd for the gurney, and everybody parted seamlessly, 2 or 3 more furs just came out and helped me to keep the corridor open for a few minutes until the poor girl was finally carted away.

All in all, honestly, this is amazing. Way to go, guys. Let's keep it up and not drop our banner!


----------



## Booker (Dec 11, 2014)

So hows everyone going to react if this ends up not being directed at the furcon at all?!? There was another event going on, other guest in the hotel and its close to a major airport. Ehh just saying, as the general public all we really know is that it was possibly intentional. Least someone had something in the hotel they shouldnt have.


----------



## funky3000 (Dec 11, 2014)

Gushousekai195 said:


> Oh, God.  Now I am really scared.  Please don't think about such a thing.  It just allocates more energy toward it actually happening.  Our thoughts create our reality.



Well in that case.

What if the president is secretly a fur and files an executive order to assassinate all anti-furs?


----------



## Xela-Dasi (Dec 11, 2014)

Gushousekai195 said:


> Our thoughts create our reality.



money, bitches and furry fandom creating a street gang. Why not.


----------



## The_Femboy_Kitty (Dec 12, 2014)

I feel as if the whole attack is gonna bring bad attention to us furries. I also find it appauling that news people will sit and laugh when trying to report 19 people are in the hospital. Either way the bottom line is i hope this does not almost wipe out the fandom due to bad attention and people leaving due to it. Just a thought in the back of my mind i needed to vent.


----------



## debit13 (Dec 12, 2014)

The_Femboy_Kitty said:


> I feel as if the whole attack is gonna bring bad attention to us furries. I also find it appauling that news people will sit and laugh when trying to report 19 people are in the hospital. Either way the bottom line is i hope this does not almost wipe out the fandom due to bad attention and people leaving due to it. Just a thought in the back of my mind i needed to vent.



I completely agree with you; I actually saw the video of Mika Brzezinski circling around some of my more personal contacts through social media, and some of the things said were nothing short of disgusting.

I'm someone who has moved around quite a bit in the last five years, and I spent a good majority of my life in Chicago, where I developed a large number of contacts on social media through personal contact at school. Meanwhile, I have a large span of friends that I've met through coinciding hobbies on the internet. I knew a number of people who actually traveled hundreds of miles to the convention to have a good time; it is absolutely infuriating to see people constantly harping on the furry community as if they're some outlandish group of people when in physicality, it's not much different than your typical cosplay (at least, that's how I see it). When people try to chastise, I make sure to deliberately rub in the fact that they're using social stature as a method of creating a double standard rather than thinking for themselves.

How this situation developed, and everything regarding it is certainly no laughing matter.

*EDIT*: On another note -- some reassuring news: 


> Either way the bottom line is i hope this does not almost wipe out the fandom due to bad attention and people leaving due to it.



Very doubtful! The communities are quite resilient, and those who host events for furries seem to be standing up for them in drones, talking about how proceeds very typically go to good causes. I haven't been to a convention, but surely that is: a.) a cause worth fighting for, and b.) more commendable than those who think it's alright to be rude to those who are part of a very active community.


----------



## Wolveon (Dec 12, 2014)

Sucks that this happened, but I'm happy everyone is alright (as far as I know).


----------



## woofywolvez (Dec 28, 2014)

That is just horrible...  If nobody is really safe (which we aren't yet...?) then the only logical step is to protect oneself.  It almost makes me wish I had a gas mask fetish... but alas.


----------



## Simo (Dec 28, 2014)

woofywolvez said:


> That is just horrible...  If nobody is really safe (which we aren't yet...?) then the only logical step is to protect oneself.  It almost makes me wish I had a gas mask fetish... but alas.



Odd, I was pondering the same thing. But of all my crazy interests, gas masks have never been among them, but close. Though one would need the appropriate filters.

I tend to think the attack was just some random idiot, and glad it didn't go farther.


----------



## CT-2134 (Dec 28, 2014)

Simo said:


> Odd, I was pondering the same thing. But of all my crazy interests, gas masks have never been among them, but close. Though one would need the appropriate filters.
> 
> I tend to think the attack was just some random idiot, and glad it didn't go farther.


That's the problem with most con-goers is that they very rarely have the appropriate equipment for real-world scenarios then they get all assmad when you tell them that their equipment they do have is next to worthless and they might as well save the time and kill themselves. Ten again, most worry about is acid poisoning in the water tank and Axe gas attacks to the lardass thats drowning in his own sweat.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 28, 2014)

woofywolvez said:


> the only logical step is to protect oneself.



You heard it, Kage, approve open-carry!


----------



## Fallowfox (Dec 28, 2014)

Oh great, more furry madness about fursuited heroes wielding weapons.


----------



## CT-2134 (Dec 28, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> You heard it, Kage, approve open-carry!



Open carry is by far the worst type of carry any reasonable gun owner (assuming guns) can do. 
Open carry makes you the biggest target, the biggest threat and therefore, the first to die. It does nothing other than say "look at me, I have a gun and you don't!" Basically it strokes your over-inflated ego and gets more people hurt or killed in the process. You always conceal carry. The only thing OC is good for is when you're driving and you have a threat engaging to whatever direction. 

Open carry gets you killed.


----------



## Fallowfox (Dec 28, 2014)

A study would be necessary to justify that hypothesis, but I digress; for fairly obvious reasons convention spaces and weapons are not a good mix in any scenario.


----------



## CT-2134 (Dec 28, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> A study would be necessary to justify that hypothesis, but I digress; for fairly obvious reasons convention spaces and weapons are not a good mix in any scenario.


No study is needed as it is more common sense than it is a hypothesis. The pistolâ€™s prime advantage is its small, concealable size. OC gives up the pistolâ€™s single greatest advantage over a rifle: stealth. It alerts every criminal that you are armed, so he can take you out first. He can then relieve you of that pistol which, besides being a threat to him, is also an item of considerable value that he can sell to his criminal buddies.Tactically, concealed carry beats open carry every time.

Of course, rifles in a security standpoint, is your last-resort weapon. If you have to break out your long gun, shit is about to go down and people will die. In a gunfighter standpoint, pistol is always a last resort weapon. On a regular EDC person, your weapon is the ten minute response national average LEO response time cut down to less than a minute. The best way to avoid a conflict is avoidance and a deescalation of the situation. Most con-security is roughly unarmed, but there are hired armed security walking around that you don't know about. There are cops at conventions, but usually they sit a little bit away in the parking lot or are on an over-watch position, interacting with potential people they deem as a threat. 

Just a food for thought.
source: worked for a security company for a couple years and befriended cops, industry CEO's and security consultants. It's amazing what these guys will tell you in a ten minute conversation.


----------



## Fallowfox (Dec 28, 2014)

CT-2134 said:


> No study is needed as it is more common sense than it is a hypothesis. The pistolâ€™s prime advantage is its small, concealable size. OC gives up the pistolâ€™s single greatest advantage over a rifle: stealth. It alerts every criminal that you are armed, so he can take you out first. He can then relieve you of that pistol which, besides being a threat to him, is also an item of considerable value that he can sell to his criminal buddies.Tactically, concealed carry beats open carry every time.
> 
> Of course, rifles in a security standpoint, is your last-resort weapon. If you have to break out your long gun, shit is about to go down and people will die. In a gunfighter standpoint, pistol is always a last resort weapon. On a regular EDC person, your weapon is the ten minute response national average LEO response time cut down to less than a minute. The best way to avoid a conflict is avoidance and a deescalation of the situation. Most con-security is roughly unarmed, but there are hired armed security walking around that you don't know about. There are cops at conventions, but usually they sit a little bit away in the parking lot or are on an over-watch position, interacting with potential people they deem as a threat.
> 
> ...




The intuitive answer is not guaranteed to be right. For example it might turn out that a visible weapon reduces the overall probability of death by deterring an attack in the first place. 

It is possible to argue which outcome is most sensible for eternity; only measurement will settle the question.


----------



## CT-2134 (Dec 28, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> The intuitive answer is not guaranteed to be right. For example it might turn out that a visible weapon reduces the overall probability of death by deterring an attack in the first place.
> 
> It is possible to argue which outcome is most sensible for eternity; only measurement will settle the question.



That's deterrence. Most armed petty criminals will see an OC and walk away with out pulling out their gun.

in the case of conventions, the only deterrent is a badge that says "Metro City Police" on it (Metro city being whatever city the LEO works for)


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## Fallowfox (Dec 28, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> it might turn out that a visible weapon reduces the overall probability of death by *deterring *an attack in the first place.
> 
> It is possible to argue which outcome is most sensible for eternity; only measurement will settle the question.





CT-2134 said:


> *That's deterrence.*



Thanks, Sherlock.


----------



## CT-2134 (Dec 28, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> Thanks, Sherlock.


I forgot to add something about the determination of the criminal. 
In all, a good portion of the gun community look down on open carry because of the "I don't want to be the first one dead," mentality.


----------



## IAN (Dec 28, 2014)

Despite being a supporter of concealed-carry and gun rights, I'm strongly for keeping guns banned from AC or any furry con there is, simply because with knowing how mentally unstable this fandom is with shit ranging from asbergers to clinical depression I would not feel comfortable with a loaded firearm being within 100 yards of the premise. 

Except on cops and maybe a select few people I know. And that's pushing it.


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## Brass (Dec 28, 2014)

There's a lot of 4chan boogyman fearing in this thread.


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## ThePumu (Dec 29, 2014)

I was there. Luckily never went inside due to pop ups


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## Ozriel (Dec 29, 2014)

IAN said:


> Despite being a supporter of concealed-carry and gun rights, I'm strongly for keeping guns banned from AC or any furry con there is, simply because with knowing how mentally unstable this fandom is with shit ranging from asbergers to clinical depression I would not feel comfortable with a loaded firearm being within 100 yards of the premise.
> 
> Except on cops and maybe a select few people I know. And that's pushing it.



Agreed.
At most, conventions on a larger scale tend to have police and other emergency staff on duty. Really, you do not need a weapon like a gun at a con, but it doesn't hurt to have your wits about you if you are staying at a hotel a wee bit far from the convention center itself.


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## HybridHusky (Jan 14, 2015)

My cousin was there when it happened. She was shivering due to the evacuation, and they(her and her mom) left everything behind due to the panic, only wearing pajamas, and what was awesome was that(luckily they didn't get hurt) someone in a orange tiger fursuit caught her freezing, and he(yes it was a guy according to her and the pic her mom sent me of him in fursuit)  gave her the arm sleeves for a while, and even gave her the paws to wear as mittens. She was only a mere 8 when that happened(her mom was a furry and she wanted to go see the "animals") After the incident, she returned his stuff safely and he gave her a tiny brown and white spotted yarn wolf tail he bought from the con to wear. It was just amazing how a thing like this can bring people together and show that they all still have a good side.


----------



## Victor Anderson (Jan 14, 2015)

Question: Why was this so unreported? I have yet to see anything about it one TV, and first saw it on FurMedia. Wow.


----------



## mcjoel (Jan 14, 2015)

Here in the state's it was on quite a few news programs out here when it happened months ago.


----------



## Victor Anderson (Jan 14, 2015)

mcjoel said:


> Here in the state's it was on quite a few news programs out here when it happened months ago.



Really? Not where I live...

Scratch that. I live where all news is 100% conservative, where if someone knows what a furry is, they throw up a bible and start hissing like a cornered cat if you mention it. Fuckin' bible belt's holster...


----------



## Amethiste (Feb 22, 2015)

Victor Anderson said:


> Really? Not where I live...
> 
> Scratch that. I live where all news is 100% conservative, where if someone knows what a furry is, they throw up a bible and start hissing like a cornered cat if you mention it. Fuckin' bible belt's holster...



Considering the bible says nothing about anything even similar to furrys (might cover the 1% but thats about it) I don't get how someone could think that it condemns it...but then again their are some real nutjobs out there... 

btw has anyone herd if their has been any updates in the investigation into this?


----------



## X_Joshi_X (Feb 22, 2015)

As this thread seems revived again, I found this over Reddit: [video=youtube_share;g4vbbJZeqlg]http://youtu.be/g4vbbJZeqlg[/video]
I agree with the first half of the video, but in the second half, he defends the laugh attack of one of the news person. I know, that we Furries are weird, and thats Ok, but you HAVE to be professional and tolerant to other cultures/livestyles/hobbies as a news person... Weirdness is no reason for laughing at such an event.


----------



## SkyeLegs (Feb 22, 2015)

Victor Anderson said:


> Really? Not where I live...
> 
> Scratch that. I live where all news is 100% conservative, where if someone knows what a furry is, they throw up a bible and start hissing like a cornered cat if you mention it. Fuckin' bible belt's holster...



I was surprised to see it on my local morning news, but the way they introduced it, I thought it was going to be something bad, calling furries gross or something. They opened with "You won't believe what made a lot of people sick at a furry convention." But they were actually very sympathetic and even went on to define furries in a positive light.



Amethiste said:


> btw has anyone herd if their has been any updates in the investigation into this?



I haven't heard about it since it happened, and I can't find anything online, either. I doubt there will actually be an arrest made, though.


----------



## BlitzCo (Feb 22, 2015)

Victor Anderson said:


> Really? Not where I live...
> 
> Scratch that. I live where all news is 100% conservative, where if someone knows what a furry is, they throw up a bible and start hissing like a cornered cat if you mention it. Fuckin' bible belt's holster...



I live in one of the most conservative cities in the entire US (Abilene TX) and I can tell you that it wouldn't be the same here. Results may vary I guess


----------



## Amethiste (Feb 23, 2015)

IAN said:


> Despite being a supporter of concealed-carry and gun rights, I'm strongly for keeping guns banned from AC or any furry con there is, simply because with knowing how mentally unstable this fandom is with shit ranging from asbergers to clinical depression I would not feel comfortable with a loaded firearm being within 100 yards of the premise.
> 
> Except on cops and maybe a select few people I know. And that's pushing it.



People with Concealed Weapons Permits are Fully Background checked for those kinds of issues, that argument does not hold water.


----------



## BlitzCo (Feb 23, 2015)

Yeah, people who legally get CCPs tend to be mentally stable


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## X_Joshi_X (Feb 23, 2015)

Haha you guys cant imagine the weapon laws in germany xDD.


----------



## Duality Jack (Feb 23, 2015)

Blunt Canadian guy moment: Any man who whips a gun out in a crowd even in self defence without significant training and knowledge of the legal consequences, and has proven he has enough skill to put a bullet in some innocent's head due to lack of skill deserves to be in a box, and have his murder capable safety blankets taken away.


----------



## X_Joshi_X (Feb 23, 2015)

We got a whole Wikipedia Article about it 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany


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## Gryphoneer (Feb 23, 2015)

BlitzCo said:


> Yeah, people who legally get CCPs tend to be mentally stable



Any gunman running amok was a responsible gun owner before he went on a shooting spree.

Anyway, the point is moot. You can't defend yourself against gaseous agents by shooting the molecules out of the air.


----------



## Duality Jack (Feb 23, 2015)

Germany goes a bit far on the sliding scale of things. Canadian Gun control is practical, Non-Alarmist, and allows for use for wildlife control and recreation without being obstructive, but also makes firearm use for crime more impractical. I do find it amusing when groups who claim to be pragmatic tend to show blatantly when they are motivated by an emotional, or political mindset, not a logical one. The Canadian model isn't flawless of course, I just think it's closer to reasonable.


Gryphoneer said:


> Any gunman running amok was a responsible gun owner before he went on a shooting spree.





Gryphoneer said:


> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Anyway, the point is moot. You can't defend yourself against gaseous agents by shooting the molecules out of the air.


 "Responsible gun owners" use firearms for hunting and sharpshooting and not for use in crowded places. Hell, even US police seem to be trained too little regarding acceptable risks when using lethal force let alone civilians. But yes, moot point. Guns solve little when confronted with most acts of terror.
[/FONT]


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## Amethiste (Feb 23, 2015)

Jack Arclight said:


> Blunt Canadian guy moment: Any man who whips a gun out in a crowd even in self defence without significant training and knowledge of the legal consequences, and has proven he has enough skill to put a bullet in some innocent's head due to lack of skill deserves to be in a box, and have his murder capable safety blankets taken away.



Just an FYI, Every Concealed Weapons Permit Holder Has to Complete a Stringent Training Course in addition to the Background Checks, Every Permit Holder's worst nightmare is having to actually need to use their firearm, but at the same time they are prepared to if the need arises and they frequently train for it, most have training far in excess of what training even  police receive, any such accidents are so rare that they are not worth mentioning.


----------



## Duality Jack (Feb 23, 2015)

Amethiste said:


> Just an FYI, Every Concealed Weapons Permit Holder Has to Complete a Stringent Training Course in addition to the Background Checks, Every Permit Holder's worst nightmare is having to actually need to use their firearm, but at the same time they are prepared to if the need arises and they frequently train for it, most have training far in excess of whatthe training even  police receive, any such accidents are so rare that they are not worth mentioning.


I have mine in Canada. Professionally actually, It's even stricter here and I am fine with that, and even with absurdly tight requirements, training, and insurance (yes We need insurance in case some innocent gets in the crossfire) morons who should not have weapons can still become armed guards. 

Not to mention many Police in the USA are held to far to low standard as well, the comparison is moot. Open carry is flashy and moronic, concealed carry is something that should be done professionally only. If civilians need guns, you have a bigger problem: Your system as a whole is in a state of partial failure.


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## Gryphoneer (Feb 23, 2015)

Jack Arclight said:


> Germany goes a bit far on the sliding scale of things. Canadian Gun control is practical, Non-Alarmist, and allows for use for wildlife control and recreation without being obstructive



So, do you say our gun control is obstructive? Seeing as their hasn't been any kind of brouhaha wrt. wildlife control, something that's executed mostly by federal and state authorities anyway, it can't be that obstructive. It's not a question of impedance, but of geographically informed policy-making.

Canada has expansive, more untamed wilderness to administer, while Germany has barely any of it and one of the highest population densities worldwide. To minimize the risk of hunting accident laws are weighted towards trained professionals, whereas Canada draws more manpower from the civilian pool.


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## X_Joshi_X (Feb 23, 2015)

Yesss. Hunting only with license. No Bows and Arrows for Hunting (thats better for the animals )
And not a single thing, which could maybe look like a gun under moonlight in a dark street in public 
All airsoft wars (They are not forbidden...yet.. Interesting ) are strictly isolated.


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## BlitzCo (Feb 23, 2015)

Hunting in Texas depends on the game. For deer, there is a limit on how many you can hunt. For feral hogs, you can kill them 24/7, 365 days a year with no limit.


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## Duality Jack (Feb 23, 2015)

Gryphoneer said:


> So, do you say our gun control is obstructive? Seeing as their hasn't been any kind of brouhaha wrt. wildlife control, something that's executed mostly by federal and state authorities anyway, it can't be that obstructive. It's not a question of impedance, but of geographically informed policy-making.
> 
> Canada has expansive, more untamed wilderness to administer, while Germany has barely any of it and one of the highest population densities worldwide. To minimize the risk of hunting accident laws are weighted towards trained professionals, whereas Canada draws more manpower from the civilian pool.


This is true, but recreational use in correct contexts is something they could facilitate a bit more. Likely alike Canadian Handgun laws (they can only be transported locked up away from drivers in a safe or lock-box and used in licensed firing ranges etc) Restricting weapon types for ownership has proven so far, ineffective, but restricting when and how a person can transport or carry weapons has been proven very effective, but with everything the best solution takes time to find, and involves more subtlety than fear or polar solutions.


X_Joshi_X said:


> Yesss. Hunting only with license. No Bows and Arrows for Hunting (thats better for the animals )
> And not a single thing, which could maybe look like a gun under moonlight in a dark street in public
> All airsoft wars (They are not forbidden...yet.. Interesting ) are strictly isolated.


*COUGH* As a man who has hunted with a rifle, a shotgun and a bow, the bow is by far the most gruesome. I don't typically hunt, I just rather eat animals that where not mistreated when alive.


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## Croconaw (Feb 24, 2015)

I forgot what this thread is all about.


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## Butters Shikkon (Feb 24, 2015)

Croconaw said:


> I forgot what this thread is all about.



Foul gas at some con.


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## Croconaw (Feb 24, 2015)

Butters Shikkon said:


> Foul gas at some con.



What? This is a gun control thread and hunting thread. You silly, Butters.


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## ARTYWOLF0811 (Mar 10, 2015)

wow... I came here to see if they ever got whoever was responsible for the gas attack and now you're talking about gun control.... Ok.


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## Torrijos-sama (Mar 19, 2015)

Well, it seems that i've missed the boat by a few months again on something, and hopped on when the boat veered towards gun control.

If it was an act of terrorism, it was probably perpetrated by someone that is tied up in internet subcultures and may have possibly been someone within the fandom.

Due to the lack of success at doing any damage while getting people riled up, i'd go so far as to say that the person is either really intelligent in covering their MO with contrived failure, or they were a complete idiot.


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## Amethiste (Mar 20, 2015)

Torrijos-sama said:


> If it was an act of terrorism, it was probably perpetrated by someone that is tied up in internet subcultures and may have possibly been someone within the fandom.
> 
> Due to the lack of success at doing any damage while getting people riled up, i'd go so far as to say that the person is either really intelligent in covering their MO with contrived failure, or they were a complete idiot.



I doubt it was someone in the fandom, Unless they have some severe issues at least, although I do agree it was likely done by a complete idiot.


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## And (Mar 21, 2015)

Jack Arclight said:


> I have mine in Canada. Professionally actually, It's even stricter here and I am fine with that, and even with absurdly tight requirements, training, and insurance (yes We need insurance in case some innocent gets in the crossfire) morons who should not have weapons can still become armed guards.
> 
> Not to mention many Police in the USA are held to far to low standard as well, the comparison is moot. Open carry is flashy and moronic, concealed carry is something that should be done professionally only. If civilians need guns, you have a bigger problem: Your system as a whole is in a state of partial failure.


A CCW permit in Canada? No, you don't.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope... Nope. What is your surname?


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## Torrijos-sama (Mar 27, 2015)

Amethiste said:


> I doubt it was *someone in the fandom* Unless they *have some severe issues* at least,



Think of the fandom.

Now, think about those in the fandom with severe issues.

The sane are a minority.


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## Dvir (Mar 28, 2015)

Torrijos-sama said:


> Think of the fandom.
> 
> Now, think about those in the fandom with severe issues.
> 
> The sane are a minority.



speak for yourself, I see more sane than not myself.


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## Biochemiphy (Mar 28, 2015)

*Very sinister...*


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