# The Great Beyond



## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

The Great beyond, life after death, reincarnated. Call it what you want, but tell me what do you think about it.

Tell me how do you think it will be like. 

Me religiously , I believe that once you died. Your soul would be taken and judge by god. Once he judges you, if he let's you in the big gate. You sill be in a paradise, having anything you ever wanted appear before your eyes. You will receive knowledge of everything, like how the earth ultimately kills itself and what happens to every one. All this while perched up on a cloud.

Me non-religiously , I believe once you die. Your mind will continue to leave your soul would be reincarnated. It would be like living your life out again but with different options. Like if you were bullied by everyone for being gay, in the next life your praised and respected for coming out.
If you were deformed in a last life, in the next you would be the worlds all-time best football player. 

This is what I think about how the unknown would be like. 
And when I said "...when the earth eventually kills itself..." I am talking about what people are doing to it. They are literally pulling themselves inside out eventually we will run out of oil. Then there would be a war to get last bit of oil. Then blah blah blah then finally it's endgame, the Russians the Koreans the Chinese the Americans and whoever else who has nukes will start launching.


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## LizardKing (Sep 12, 2011)

Boring atheist view: You rot.


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## Xenke (Sep 12, 2011)

My view: It doesn't matter.

In life, you can never know what happens after death, and once you're dead it doesn't matter because what will be will be.


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## Aetius (Sep 12, 2011)

Not sure, haven't asked a dead person yet.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Boring atheist view: You rot.


I'm not an atheist... I just not very religious


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## Cyril (Sep 12, 2011)

Nobody knows because nobody who is alive is dead. There's no use pondering it because we will learn the truth eventually (or not, if there is nothing after death.)


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## dinosaurdammit (Sep 12, 2011)

Honestly the fear of what is next has driven me into depression I now take meds for.

I believe that heaven exist and I will see my mom and family n shit but I am afraid if I don't meet requirements and am doomed to serve eternity in darkness. Honest to god I am afraid of the dark.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Cyril said:


> Nobody knows because nobody who is alive is dead. There's no use pondering it because we will learn the truth eventually (or not, if there is nothing after death.)


I did say what do you think not what do you know. I want to see your perspective about it


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## iconmaster (Sep 12, 2011)

Dream bubbles, Homestuck-stlye. Oh yeah. :V

On a more seroius note, I am a boring Athiest. No afterlife for me.


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## Gavrill (Sep 12, 2011)

I like to think of death as a really long nap you never wake up from. |3


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## dinosaurdammit (Sep 12, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> I like to think of death as a really long nap you never wake up from. |3




This alone frightens the hell out of me. I don't like sleeping and cannot without ample amounts of ambian.


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## Gavrill (Sep 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> This alone frightens the hell out of me. I don't like sleeping and cannot without ample amounts of ambian.


That really sucks. I love dreamless sleep, so I'm not that scared of death, but if you're afraid of sleeping... ;; *hugs*


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 12, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I'm not an atheist... I just not very religious


 
You can be atheist and religious at the same time, just ask any Buddhist. :V

That said until someone proves the existence of souls or the like, there's no real reason to believe in afterlives, so I don't.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> You can be atheist and religious at the same time, just ask any Buddhist. :V
> 
> That said until someone proves the existence of souls or the like, there's no real reason to believe in afterlives, so I don't.


 I did mention that your mind will continue to live. It would probably loop the meomories of your life and continue to replay them. And the thread was intended to find out what you "think"


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## Cyril (Sep 12, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I did say what do you think not what do you know. I want to see your perspective about it


I'm saying I don't think because I don't care.


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## Antonin Scalia (Sep 12, 2011)

You're already dead you idiot, look where you live.


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## Gavrill (Sep 12, 2011)

Antonin Scalia said:


> You're already dead you idiot, look where you live.


at least he's not in Tallahassee
that place man

that fucking place.


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## Heliophobic (Sep 12, 2011)

Well... I believe in a heaven and a hell.

That's pretty much it.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Antonin Scalia said:


> You're already dead you idiot, look where you live.


 lol it's not that bad in Florida


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## Stormtail (Sep 12, 2011)

I've never really been sure what I believe. I think there's something after death, but what that is, I don't have a clue. I've thought about the idea from Jonathan Livingston Seagull, where when you die you are reborn in another world, the world depending on what you learned in your previous life. "...we choose our next world through what we learn in this one. Learn nothing, and the next world is the same as this one, all the same limitations and lead weights to overcome" (Bach 62). (That's right, MLA FTW). I've also thought about the world of Final Fantasy VII, where when you die your spirit energy returns to the planet to become another life form. Like a spiritual Gaia Theory. Or maybe it's just a basic Heaven/Hell where our family and ancestors wait for us. Overall, I figure I'll find out when I die, so I'll just live as well as I can and find out then.


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 12, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I did mention that your mind will continue to live. It would probably loop the meomories of your life and continue to replay them. And the thread was intended to find out what you "think"


 
Based off what? How can you-

Wait, are you high right now? You're high aren't you.


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## LizardKing (Sep 12, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> It would be like living your life out again but with different options. Like if you were bullied by everyone for being gay, in the next life your praised and respected for coming out.
> If you were deformed in a last life, in the next you would be the worlds all-time best football player.



Just wondering if you realised that this implies a total lack of free will, as people would be required to act according to some predetermined plan to make sure things went differently for each other.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> Based off what? How can you-
> 
> Wait, are you high right now? You're high aren't you.


 no I don't smoke, and I don't know if your mind would loop the meomries it just what I think that could happen. The world full of mysteries, unexplainable stuff. It could happen :/


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Honestly the fear of what is next has driven me into depression I now take meds for.
> 
> I believe that heaven exist and I will see my mom and family n shit but I am afraid if I don't meet requirements and am doomed to serve eternity in darkness. Honest to god I am afraid of the dark.



If you believe those things, then you must believe in a creator of those things, right?
So if that creator took the time to make people, emotions and Heaven, it probably wouldn't be a monster and punish you forever, right?
Because _nobody _deserves that.


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## Stormtail (Sep 12, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Just wondering if you realised that this implies a total lack of free will, as people would be required to act according to some predetermined plan to make sure things went differently for each other.



Well, that's assuming we would be reborn into the same world each time. It's entirely possible there is no single reality where we all would have to be a certain way to comply with how another person is going to live.


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## LizardKing (Sep 12, 2011)

Stormfur said:


> Well, that's assuming we would be reborn into the same world each time. It's entirely possible there is no single reality where we all would have to be a certain way to comply with how another person is going to live.



Okay so how does that help? The other people are just your imagination? Robots?


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Just wondering if you realised that this implies a total lack of free will, as people would be required to act according to some predetermined plan to make sure things went differently for each other.


 Well you could have a point there, then again we are just thinking of the possibilities. And say this was true that you are changed in the next life you would not know. Cause it will be like starting with a clean slate. Even if you tell everyone not alot of people will believe it , they will just think your crazy. Me I'm pretty calm at time so in my next life(if it is true) I would imagine that I'm pretty calm as well.


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## Lobar (Sep 12, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I believe once you die. Your mind will continue to leave your soul would be reincarnated. It would be like living your life out again but with different options. Like if you were bullied by everyone for being gay, in the next life your praised and respected for coming out.
> If you were deformed in a last life, in the next you would be the worlds all-time best football player.


 
do you have _any_ reason to believe this other than wanting it to be true?


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## Tycho (Sep 12, 2011)

Focus on life.  What's beyond the grave is unimportant.  You may or may not have an afterlife, but you DEFINITELY DO have a LIFE.  Make the most of it.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Lobar said:


> do you have _any_ reason to believe this other than wanting it to be true?


No just thinking what I believe what would happen


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## Tewin Follow (Sep 12, 2011)

Lobar said:


> do you have _any_ reason to believe this other than wanting it to be true?



Suddenly: every religion ever shuffles its shoes.


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## dinosaurdammit (Sep 12, 2011)

Harebelle said:


> If you believe those things, then you must believe in a creator of those things, right?
> So if that creator took the time to make people, emotions and Heaven, it probably wouldn't be a monster and punish you forever, right?
> Because _nobody _deserves that.


 
Some parents are cruel.



Harebelle said:


> Suddenly: every religion ever shuffles its shoes.



FFFFFF BUT GANDI HAS NO SHOES!


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Focus on life.  What's beyond the grave is unimportant.  You may or may not have an afterlife, but you DEFINITELY DO have a LIFE.  Make the most of it.


I know I do live my life this is just something that gets me curious.


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## Rilvor (Sep 12, 2011)

I think there is a whole lot of nothing.

Therefore, up with cybernetics!


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## Xenke (Sep 12, 2011)

Rilvor said:


> I think there is a whole lot of nothing.
> 
> Therefore, up with cybernetics!



Are you implying you'd like to live past when you'd normally die?


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## Lobar (Sep 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> FFFFFF BUT GANDI HAS NO SHOES!


 
Gandhi isn't a religious icon.


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## dinosaurdammit (Sep 12, 2011)

Lobar said:


> Gandhi isn't a religious icon.



Preyyyy sure if it exist it can be seen as a religious thing. Not saying he was but he could be to some.


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## Tycho (Sep 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Preyyyy sure if it exist it can be seen as a religious thing. Not saying he was but he could be to some.



He was more emblematic of a philosophy.  The line between philosophy and religion is obviously thin in spots (Buddhism is a hell of a lot of philosophy cleverly disguised as a "religion", IMO) but I don't think Gandhi can be called a religious symbol at all.


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## Xenke (Sep 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Preyyyy sure if it exist it can be seen as a religious thing. Not saying he was but he could be to some.



But Gandhi was/is a _political_ icon.


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## Rilvor (Sep 12, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Are you implying you'd like to live past when you'd normally die?



 I certainly am not.


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## dinosaurdammit (Sep 12, 2011)

Tycho said:


> He was more emblematic of a philosophy.  The line between philosophy and religion is obviously thin in spots (Buddhism is a hell of a lot of philosophy cleverly disguised as a "religion", IMO) but I don't think Gandhi can be called a religious symbol at all.




If I were to try and relate it to christianity which is something I shouldn't he seems like a saint or something that people MAY look up to. I dunno if thats right or not but it could be a possibility.


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## Tomias_Redford (Sep 12, 2011)

Harebelle said:


> If you believe those things, then you must believe in a creator of those things, right?
> So if that creator took the time to make people, emotions and Heaven, it probably wouldn't be a monster and punish you forever, right?
> Because _nobody _deserves that.



Well technically, that is exactly what /would/ happen.  Since in the bible it states multiple times, you have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that he died for your sins, to get into heaven.*  Now at first, when I was starting to like, actually think about this kinda stuff properly.  It's a test, a test of faith.  There is a reason God doesn't just put a massive sign in the middle of the sky saying "Yo, I am god, believe in me bitches, or burn."  It's because of what another passage in the bible mentions, that getting into Heaven isn't supposed to be easy, "the road to heaven is a thin, rocky path."  If it was, everyone would get in.  He makes the test, to prove who is actually worthy of his kingdom he built in Heaven.  If you truly believe, only with blind faith, without needing any physical evidence, then you are worthy in his eyes of Heaven.  Everyone else who isn't worthy will be going downstairs if you know what I mean.

He is kind though, and loves everyone, but we have to be worthy to enter his Kingdom.  Now I know that you will probably say stuff like, "if he loves everyone, why doens't he stop wars and natural disasters."  Well, the simple answer is, he can't.  Back before there were even humans on the planet, Satan used to in fact be an Angel, known as Lucifer.  Lucifer wanted more power, he wanted control over God and Heaven, but God wasn't having any of that, so he kicked him out, and Lucifer fell to Earth.  Hence why Lucifer is known as a Fallen Angel, because he fell from Gods Grace, he fell from Heaven.  So he was given control over the Earth, hence why Satan is also known as the Prince Of The Earth, and his power down here, matches that with God's.  So whenever bad shit happens down here, it's Satan's fault, and God can't stop it due to the whole power issue thing.  However, sometimes he manages to slip through, and help.  You hear all thet ime about these so called 'miracles', a child survives a horrific plane crash without a scratch, a guy gets shot int he head but lives, that kinda stuff.  That is all God managing to get through and help out as many as he can.

tl;dr?  God stuff

*"For god so loved the Earth, that he gave his only begotten son.  So that whomsoever believes in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Sep 12, 2011)

Do something meaningful with your life.

Live forever.


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## Gavrill (Sep 12, 2011)

Did anyone else start singing "Beyond the Mysterious Beyond" from Land Before Time? No?


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> Did anyone else start singing "Beyond the Mysterious Beyond" from Land Before Time? No?


No , actually shot yourself in the foot by skream and example started to play in my head. I never seen the land before time was is that?


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## Gavrill (Sep 12, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I never seen the land before time was is that?


r u srs did you ever have a childhood


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 12, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> r u srs did you ever have a childhood


lol yes , I just didn't watch tv alot I was a only child and went out a lot I do remember kid shows not a lot of movies.


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## Conker (Sep 12, 2011)

One of my religious studies teachers described Heaven as being enveloped by God. All of your worries of the mortal plane will be gone, you won't worry about loved ones who may or may not have gone to Heaven with you, you'll just be surrounded by God. You'll love him and he'll love you. You won't want anything else. And it's for eternity. 

Basically, you'll be forced to suck off God's sugary meatpole and enjoy it.

I dunno what death will be like, but holy fuck I hope it's nothing like what he was describing :|


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## Ikrit (Sep 12, 2011)

i hope i go to hell, heaven sounds boring


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## Ad Hoc (Sep 12, 2011)

I am not a dualist--as in, I have no belief that there  is significant differentiation between the body and the mind/soul. I  believe that an individual's consciousness arises _from_ their body, not  independent of it; mostly through a series of chemical reactions and  interactions in the brain. As a result, I believe the consciousness dies along with  the body: No afterlife, no reincarnation in the sense of a whole  consciousness being transported to another body.

From there, some of  the matter and energy which had made up the body-consciousness dissipate  into the universe indefinitely; but generally most is distributed among  other life forms: Predators, scavengers, bacteria, etc., Further  down the line, it goes into the ground and water, providing  nutrients for flora and, later, more fauna (human and/or otherwise). The cycle  continues.

In some sense this belief supports the theory of reincarnation, because the  matter and energy is being shared with other beings, becoming a part of  them. But I believe it is highly unlikely that the consciousness of an  individual is ever passed on or replicated in a recognizable way. It  becomes something else.


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## jeff (Sep 12, 2011)

you trip balls pretty much
spirituality is a useful technology considering the situation

theres nothing wrong with believing in some eccentric paradigm if it keeps you from succumbing to abject terror
but if you believe in hell you better safeguard yourself from sin pretty well because your conscience is going to totally toss the salad of your pineal anus :^(

i guess the same is true of reincarnation
hungry ghostssssss


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## jeff (Sep 12, 2011)

i dont get why hell is supposed to be like a place where people can freely associate
i mean dantes inferno has some places like that
but maybe you get stuck in that horrible frozen place where your balls are the only thing free to associate and only then with horrific frostbite and gangrene

yucky poopoo ;____;


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## Conker (Sep 12, 2011)

jeff said:


> i dont get why hell is supposed to be like a place where people can freely associate
> i mean dantes inferno has some places like that
> but maybe you get stuck in that horrible frozen place where your balls are the only thing free to associate and only then with horrific frostbite and gangrene
> 
> yucky poopoo ;____;


Cept _Dante's Inferno_ was a revenge fic that he wrote after getting kicked out of Italy. He published his buthurt and it's now considered a great work of literature. Kind of funny, when you think about it in the context of so many furries and otakus ranting and raving on their livejournals about shit no one cares to hear


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## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 13, 2011)

Conker said:


> One of my religious studies teachers described Heaven as being enveloped by God. All of your worries of the mortal plane will be gone, you won't worry about loved ones who may or may not have gone to Heaven with you, you'll just be surrounded by God. You'll love him and he'll love you. You won't want anything else. And it's for eternity.
> 
> Basically, you'll be forced to suck off God's sugary meatpole and enjoy it.
> 
> I dunno what death will be like, but holy fuck I hope it's nothing like what he was describing :|



Its not. Biblically that is way off. If you are interested, I can explain further. But, in general, what we do here, affects us up there.


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## Fay V (Sep 13, 2011)

Conker said:


> Cept _Dante's Inferno_ was a revenge fic that he wrote after getting kicked out of Italy. He published his buthurt and it's now considered a great work of literature. Kind of funny, when you think about it in the context of so many furries and otakus ranting and raving on their livejournals about shit no one cares to hear



I was naked for a day, you shall be naked for eternity -Jeff Chaucer.


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## M. LeRenard (Sep 13, 2011)

I heard a hypothesis once that it could be, when you die, since your brain is shutting off and losing all notion of how to interpret the world, it sends your 'consciousness' (being loose with the definition here) into sort of an infinite loop in which you no longer perceive any passing of time.  So what that idea is saying is that you may just find yourself in a permanent dreamlike state, independent of time, and hence which goes on forever from your point of view.  So something like an afterlife, more relative to your decaying corpse's brain tissue sending out its very last signals, which you might perceive as an everlasting dream but which only takes a few seconds in real time.
But I don't think it's a very well-supported idea.


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## Unsilenced (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm not really one for the whole "afterlife" thing really. I much prefer the idea of final rest or reincarnation. 


If I had to have an afterlife though, I'd totally be down with Valhalla. Sit around drinking with some of the biggest bad-asses in history. Prepare for Ragnarok. 

Good times.


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## SnowyD (Sep 13, 2011)

After death is like before birth. Black void without thought. Relaxing.


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## Fay V (Sep 13, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> I heard a hypothesis once that it could be, when you die, since your brain is shutting off and losing all notion of how to interpret the world, it sends your 'consciousness' (being loose with the definition here) into sort of an infinite loop in which you no longer perceive any passing of time.  So what that idea is saying is that you may just find yourself in a permanent dreamlike state, independent of time, and hence which goes on forever from your point of view.  So something like an afterlife, more relative to your decaying corpse's brain tissue sending out its very last signals, which you might perceive as an everlasting dream but which only takes a few seconds in real time.
> But I don't think it's a very well-supported idea.


I that when drowning, due to lack of oxygen, your brain goes into a sort of euphoric state. Not great, not bad, just...there. I imagine it's something like when I got my first concussion. I was hit really hard, and actually was in a coma for a few hours (the...least bad sort. I forgot the medical term). The last thing I remember was a dog running toward me then the next moment is just...nothing. This sounds awful but it was not that bad. It's hard to explain it because it's not good, but it is, because it's not bad...Anyway. I hope when I die it's like that.


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## Xenke (Sep 13, 2011)

When I was little, I invented a theory that when you die, you're put back in the beginning of your life (albeit without remembering the version you just died in) and missing one of your senses. It made me thing about life without smell/sight/etc.



Fay V said:


> I that when drowning, due to lack of oxygen, your brain goes into a sort of euphoric state. Not great, not bad, just...there. I imagine it's something like when I got my first concussion. I was hit really hard, and actually was in a coma for a few hours (the...least bad sort. I forgot the medical term). The last thing I remember was a dog running toward me then the next moment is just...nothing. This sounds awful but it was not that bad. It's hard to explain it because it's not good, but it is, because it's not bad...Anyway. I hope when I die it's like that.



I know this isn't the same at all, but I fainted once and it was so weird. It was like I blinked, except before I blinked I was standing up, and after I was on the floor.


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## Valence (Sep 13, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Honestly the fear of what is next has driven me into depression I now take meds for.



Cool.

I hope that in our lifetime we are able to see life extension technology.  I think it's within reach.  >grow old >become young again.  woo.

I'm not afraid of what's next (if anything) to the point that it incapaciates me, I just really think its achievable to create a means of reversing the aging process.  I like to obsess over things.

(But yeah, that shit's still pretty scary though)


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## Valence (Sep 13, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> I heard a hypothesis once that it could be, when you die, since your brain is shutting off and losing all notion of how to interpret the world, it sends your 'consciousness' (being loose with the definition here) into sort of an infinite loop in which you no longer perceive any passing of time.  So what that idea is saying is that you may just find yourself in a permanent dreamlike state, independent of time, and hence which goes on forever from your point of view.  So something like an afterlife, more relative to your decaying corpse's brain tissue sending out its very last signals, which you might perceive as an everlasting dream but which only takes a few seconds in real time.
> But I don't think it's a very well-supported idea.



That is the most depressing shit I have ever heard.


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## Xenke (Sep 13, 2011)

Valence said:


> life extension technology.



I think the average life span of those with adequate medical care is long enough really. If you feel like living into your 70s/80s isn't long enough and you're "too young to die", then... honestly, I'd suspect you're wasting the time you have in life.

It's not that I don't understand the pretty basic urge to "live longer[forever]", it's just I think we're at a point where we're living quite long enough.


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## Fay V (Sep 13, 2011)

Honestly. I don't want to live in a world of immortals. Humans aren't designed for that, and it would be a major hit to our culture. That midlife crisis, the time in the 40s-50s that great authors, scientists, poets, and artists sit and think "shit I need to make something, something that precedes me" that won't happen.


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## Telnac (Sep 13, 2011)

I believe you die, your body rots while your soul is effectively asleep until the end of all things.  Then, ppl are judged and we enter whatever afterlife is slated for us all.


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## Bliss (Sep 13, 2011)

Excuse me, sir, but which direction is to Heaven? And how do I make there since all this crap is moving farther away from each other? D:


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## FlynnCoyote (Sep 13, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Honestly the fear of what is next has driven me into depression I now take meds for.
> 
> I believe that heaven exist and I will see my mom and family n shit but I am afraid if I don't meet requirements and am doomed to serve eternity in darkness. Honest to god I am afraid of the dark.



You`re supposed to look for the light when you die. Rather than fear the dark use the light you carry yourself. Better explanation below.



Harebelle said:


> If you believe those things, then you must believe in a creator of those things, right?
> So if that creator took the time to make people, emotions and Heaven, it probably wouldn't be a monster and punish you forever, right?
> Because _nobody _deserves that.



That depends on who you ask... 



Tycho said:


> Focus on life.  What's beyond the grave is unimportant.  You may or may not have an afterlife, but you DEFINITELY DO have a LIFE.  Make the most of it.



I completely agree with this. But preparing for the afterlife does not need to take over your current life. Not at all. 


Anyways, on topic...

I prescribe to the Luciferian script regarding existence. Essentially this universe is what we know as _Cosmos_ (the physical universe as observeable by our mortal senses) where we live according to the laws laid out by creation. Physics, time, gravity the whole scientific shebang are what governs our lives here and how we exist. 

Beyond Cosmos lies _Chaos._ Chaos is what existed before Cosmos and will continue to exist after Cosmos fades away or whatever. It is the goal of us as mortals to attain a state of awareness in which we can ascend to Chaos and exist beyond mortality. How? Obtain knowledge. Live open mindedly and allow yourself to explore the endless possibilities of the universe and beyond. Luciferianism does not preach divine punishment nor reward; those who fail to grasp Chaos are simply reincarnated within Cosmos.

Essentially, knowledge is power. 

For some however, ignorance is bliss. 

Your call.


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## Lunar (Sep 13, 2011)

I kind of follow the Greek/Roman idea of the afterlife, almost to the letter.  Once you die, your life is judged, and you are sent to a different realm according to your actions.  Elysium, Tartarus, and I know there was a third realm... not exactly good, but not bad, either.  Like being bored forever.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> I heard a hypothesis once that it could be, when you die, since your brain is shutting off and losing all notion of how to interpret the world, it sends your 'consciousness' (being loose with the definition here) into sort of an infinite loop in which you no longer perceive any passing of time.  So what that idea is saying is that you may just find yourself in a permanent dreamlike state, independent of time, and hence which goes on forever from your point of view.  So something like an afterlife, more relative to your decaying corpse's brain tissue sending out its very last signals, which you might perceive as an everlasting dream but which only takes a few seconds in real time.
> 
> But I don't think it's a very well-supported idea.


That's what i said, when you died that maybe your meomries just loop infinitely.


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## ampersandestet (Sep 13, 2011)

I think it would be nice if there was a paradise, but this is not a fairy tale. I hope when I die, my conscious awareness ends. The "me" that I call myself should end. 

If there is a heaven or a hell, I side with Milton's Satan: 





> *Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.*


----------



## BRN (Sep 13, 2011)

Death is when your heart stops beating and your neurons stop firing. Consciousness is like the screen on a monitor; powered by the machinations of the computer behind it. And when the computer shuts down, the monitor shows nothing.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Sep 13, 2011)

ampersandestet said:


> I think it would be nice if there was a paradise, but this is not a fairy tale. I hope when I die, my conscious awareness ends. The "me" that I call myself should end.
> 
> If there is a heaven or a hell, I side with Milton's Satan: [/B][/FONT][/COLOR]



Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere: "Would your rather be insignificant or God's worst enemy?"

For me, I don't know and I don't care. I'll find out in due time but I'm not gonna worry about it.


----------



## Tycho (Sep 13, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> Excuse me, sir, but which direction is to Heaven? And how do I make there since all this crap is moving farther away from each other? D:



Well, if we ever figure out how to fold spacetime, the whole distance thing might not be as much of an issue.

Does anyone remember how the Star-child from the Arthur C. Clarke 2001 series got around the Universe?


----------



## Aetius (Sep 13, 2011)

The Afterlife is just a ruse created by the nobility so the peasants wouldn't rebel and stop farming beets for their whole life.


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## VoidBat (Sep 13, 2011)

There's no use in pondering about things you possibly can't solve or change. 
The sooner you accept that life is as fragile as a butterfly, the more you will learn to enjoy it.


----------



## Piroshki (Sep 13, 2011)

Thinking about this kind of thing used to make me really anxious, but then again so did just about everything else.
In any case, I don't really have a well-formed belief on this subject. The idea of a heaven of some sort existing is an appealing one, but I prefer not to think too hard about it, because whatever happens, thinking excessively and worrying about it aren't going to change it. It's sort of like how people who know they'll be killed want it to be a surprise so they worry less about it in advance.


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## Alderic (Sep 13, 2011)

I have always strongly believed in reincarnation & karma. (I am buddhist)
I believe that if you insulted and bullied a disabled kid,karma would judge you and your next life you'd be disabled.


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## Tycho (Sep 13, 2011)

Alderic said:


> I have always strongly believed in reincarnation & karma. (I am buddhist)
> I believe that if you insulted and bullied a disabled kid,karma would judge you and your next life you'd be disabled.



That's not exactly how karma works

jussayin

I mean, we talk about karma when someone gets a comeuppance, but it's not like that.  Karma is a highly abused term.


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## Gavrill (Sep 13, 2011)

Alderic said:


> I have always strongly believed in reincarnation & karma. (I am buddhist)
> I believe that if you insulted and bullied a disabled kid,karma would judge you and your next life you'd be disabled.


Uhhm. Have you ever actually listened to the teachings?

Buddhism doesn't work like that. If you were bad in this life, most likely you'd be an animal in the next life. But uh, that's Hindu anyway, not Buddhism. Buddhism is more about being good in this life without any sort of personal reward (like heaven). Although there's still mentions of karma in the teachings, it's not usually related at all to reincarnation. It's more about the here and now, since Buddhism's general direction is "be good in this life for the sake of being good".


At least that's what I gathered from the hours and hours I spent at the Korean Buddhist temple in Ft. Lauderdale.


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## meowtacles (Sep 13, 2011)

I had a few theories in my life.  The most scary was the thought that when you die, you just cease to exist, no more mind or spirit or body, you just turn into nothingness.
The second most scary is that everyone ends up in the same place.  no punishment for bad people, no reward for the good.
Another scary one was that the afterlife is just like real life.  Government and people telling you what to do for eternity.  Having to work, and all that.
One I like is our souls get set free, and we are free to do whatever we want, even to just live in an imaginary place if we so choose, or just to float around the cosmos forever and explore space.
Reincarnation is one I believe in most, actually.  I do think how you live your life and how you treat others will determine how you end up in another life.  You may even end up in another universe.
Heaven and Hell are not things I believe in, nor is god.


----------



## SnowFox (Sep 13, 2011)

Alderic said:


> I have always strongly believed in reincarnation & karma. (I am buddhist)
> I believe that if you insulted and bullied a disabled kid,karma would judge you and your next life you'd be disabled.



That disabled kid probably deserved it anyway since he obviously insulted and bullied a disabled kid in his previous life :V


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## Heimdal (Sep 13, 2011)

Because there is no definite proof for or against afterlife/reincarnation/etc, I must rationally go from personal experience.

I have no reason to believe I can die, because I have never died yet. So life after death is silly. At least in my own perspective. Certainly other people can die, but me? Nah.


----------



## meowtacles (Sep 13, 2011)

I also strongly believe that your time/way of death is predetermined.  I have been in quite a few situations where I should have died, but didn't.  Same with loads of other people.  

Also to add, I had another theory of how you die will be a factor in what happens in the afterlife.  Maybe there is a suicide realm, a murder realm, a die of old age realm, so on.


----------



## LizardKing (Sep 13, 2011)

meowtacles said:


> I have been in quite a few situations where I should have died, but didn't.  Same with loads of other people.



Wow, how amazing. Have you ever talked to anyone who's been in a situation where they should've died and _did?_

Oh. Right.


----------



## Tycho (Sep 13, 2011)

meowtacles said:


> I also strongly believe that your time/way of death is predetermined.  I have been in quite a few situations where I should have died, but didn't.  Same with loads of other people.
> 
> Also to add, I had another theory of how you die will be a factor in what happens in the afterlife.  Maybe there is a suicide realm, a murder realm, a die of old age realm, so on.



A "die in a freak accident involving a unicycle, a box of jelly donuts and a framed picture of Rita Perlman" realm?


----------



## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

Tycho said:


> A "die in a freak accident involving a unicycle, a box of jelly donuts and a framed picture of Rita Perlman" realm?


 lol realms really if you mean like when you die you go to paradise. A world made up of your memories , or a perfect place made to suit you. I would kinda believe that , but it sounds really retarded. You are going to to want something other then jelly donuts.


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## meowtacles (Sep 13, 2011)

Tycho said:


> A "die in a freak accident involving a unicycle, a box of jelly donuts and a framed picture of Rita Perlman" realm?



sure, why not?


----------



## Gavrill (Sep 13, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Wow, how amazing. Have you ever talked to anyone who's been in a situation where they should've died and _did?_
> 
> Oh. Right.



*raises hand*

My heart stopped twice in an ambulance ride once! Wee-whoo-wee-whoo


----------



## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> *raises hand*
> 
> My heart stopped twice in an ambulance ride once! Wee-whoo-wee-whoo


So what did you see when you died and was reserected. Did you see a white light?


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## Gavrill (Sep 13, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> So what did you see when you died and was reserected. Did you see a white light?


I actually don't remember a thing other than puking on one of the EMTs.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> I actually don't remember a thing other than puking on one of the EMTs.


Oh, I can kinda imagine you wouldn't see anything because paramedics need to respond quick. So like after your heart stops they immediately gave you a shock to bring you back. If you would've been dead a litle longer I imagine you would have seen something. I remember watching tv a while back, they had a special on the afterlife. A guy said he had been dead for about a whole minute. He said that all he saw was a small light far away. And because of that he goes to church all the time. But other than that what happen to you that "killed" you?


----------



## Gavrill (Sep 13, 2011)

I was clinically dead for about 30 seconds, then again for...a minute-ish? It took a few shocks to get me back. It was just black besides the vague memories of opening my eyes and seeing doctors or EMTs.

I ODed on Tegretol. Took like 60 pills and laid down. Probably would've died if I had been anywhere other than the living room.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> I was clinically dead for about 30 seconds, then again for...a minute-ish? It took a few shocks to get me back. It was just black besides the vague memories of opening my eyes and seeing doctors or EMTs.
> 
> I ODed on Tegretol. Took like 60 pills and laid down. Probably would've died if I had been anywhere other than the living room.


What the hell why you overdose on pills?! Then 60! wtf !If you were hungry you shoulda bake a cake


----------



## Gavrill (Sep 13, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> What the hell why you overdose on pills?! Then 60! wtf !If you were hungry you shoulda bake a cake


Joke it up all you like, chuckles. I ain't gotta explain shit.

Why ask in the first place if you're not going to be okay with the answer?


----------



## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> Joke it up all you like, chuckles. I ain't gotta explain shit.
> 
> Why ask in the first place if you're not going to be okay with the answer?


I thought maybe you got shot and died or you had heart attack or drowned. But as longs as your okay and you are not trying to overdose or anything. Were did you get so much pills. Actually don't tell me, and remember don't OD I would feel terrible.


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## Gavrill (Sep 13, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I thought maybe you got shot and died or you had heart attack or drowned. But as longs as your okay and you are not trying to overdose or anything. Were did you get so much pills. Actually don't tell me, and remember don't OD I would feel terrible.


You need to consider all the possibilities to something. And I would really fucking appreciate not being a dick about it because you asked first.

And yeah, ODing is bad. You don't think I got that drilled into my head? Seriously, dude. I don't like talking about it but was attempting to further what I assumed to be a mature discussion. But I guess I was expecting too much. :/


----------



## Tycho (Sep 13, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I thought maybe you got shot and died or you had heart attack or drowned. But as longs as your okay and you are not trying to overdose or anything. Were did you get so much pills. Actually don't tell me, and remember don't OD I would feel terrible.



Do you know how many pills they generally give you per Rx refill? I get a LOT of fucking pills per refill.  Way more than 60.  Try 180ish a bottle.  And that's just ONE med.  If she was supposed to take 2 a day and that was a month's worth, that's 60.  I forget how much tegretol they had me on, prob 2 a day.  And count how many Tylenol there are in a new bottle.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

At garvill I meant my reply in a good and concerned way. Not like iwas bashing you for ODing or anything, I had been initially worried. I did say as long as your not like doing again, again I did mean it in a good concerned way.

At tycho, I don't use prescription drugs because I am rarely sick. And the only meds I get are for my asthma or allergies which I only get like 15 pills. So I didn't know that you get 60 to 180 pills


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## LizardKing (Sep 13, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> At tycho, I don't use prescription drugs because I am rarely sick. And the only meds I get are for my asthma or allergies which I only get like 15 pills. So I didn't know that you get 60 to 180 pills



"The pills I get are totally different to the pills you get, why are your pills different?"


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> "The pills I get are totally different to the pills you get, why are your pills different?"


I'm not sure what are you saying


----------



## LizardKing (Sep 13, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> I'm not sure what are you saying



I'm not sure either; I sometimes find you rather difficult to understand.


----------



## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I'm not sure either; I sometimes find you rather difficult to understand.


 lol atleast we understand that we don't really understand each other.


----------



## Rilvor (Sep 13, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I'm not sure either; I sometimes find you rather difficult to understand.



 This calls for Babelfish!


----------



## Fenrari (Sep 13, 2011)

After looking at the view points of many groups, I've come to a modified karma based view style/point. 


(This of course being a creation based on several different ideas)

At death the body and soul separate. The body should naturally return to the Earth if able and thus fuel nature for another generation. As for the Soul, it dissolves into a network of some sort, combining with other streams until it is fated to be reborn. 

Ya know I'd like to think that all the world's past major religions play some part in the after life. The judging of the soul by the three judges in Egyptian mythology really appeals to me for some reason. And to a similar note also the basis behind Norse gods as well.


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## Aetius (Sep 13, 2011)

Death is the most anti-climatic thing ever :C

Nothing happens.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

@fenrari 
I do base alot of the stuff i do in life on karma.
"Karma a bitch, it's always good to treat her right..." - Dj whoohoo
This is how I go about living life, cause you never know.


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## Ames (Sep 13, 2011)

Life is but a dream


----------



## jeff (Sep 13, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> I heard a hypothesis once that it could be, when you die, since your brain is shutting off and losing all notion of how to interpret the world, it sends your 'consciousness' (being loose with the definition here) into sort of an infinite loop in which you no longer perceive any passing of time.  So what that idea is saying is that you may just find yourself in a permanent dreamlike state, independent of time, and hence which goes on forever from your point of view.  So something like an afterlife, more relative to your decaying corpse's brain tissue sending out its very last signals, which you might perceive as an everlasting dream but which only takes a few seconds in real time.
> But I don't think it's a very well-supported idea.



have you ever taken dmt
there's some 'support' for it
forever, probably not
but i think the reincarnation mythos might have a finite end (maybe!)

@conker: well i think most people who can read understand that, but any definition of hell is equally arbitrary it always is a place you go and it sucks i think that was my general idea
so uh i mean just a jump off point for everyone talking about how hell is an arbys filled with your ugly friends


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## Conker (Sep 13, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Its not. Biblically that is way off. If you are interested, I can explain further. But, in general, what we do here, affects us up there.


He's proven himself to be a much more trustworthy and less insane scholar than yourself. Odds are I"ll hope that both of you are wrong, anyways.


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## meowtacles (Sep 13, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Do you know how many pills they generally give you per Rx refill? I get a LOT of fucking pills per refill.  Way more than 60.  Try 180ish a bottle.  And that's just ONE med.  If she was supposed to take 2 a day and that was a month's worth, that's 60.  I forget how much tegretol they had me on, prob 2 a day.  And count how many Tylenol there are in a new bottle.



i only get 6 pills per bottle of my prescription, and i need them everyday.


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## Tycho (Sep 13, 2011)

meowtacles said:


> i only get 6 pills per bottle of my prescription, and i need them everyday.



What the fuck?


----------



## Smart_Cookie (Sep 13, 2011)

Tycho said:


> What the fuck?


 
Good news! It's a suppository!


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## meowtacles (Sep 13, 2011)

lol, it's my vomit medicine.  i guess i don't HAVE to take them everyday, but I like to not puke everyday.    just so i don't end up having to be in the hospital on fluids.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 13, 2011)

meowtacles said:


> lol, it's my vomit medicine.  i guess i don't HAVE to take them everyday, but I like to not puke everyday.    just so i don't end up having to be in the hospital on fluids.


What happen to you that you puke everyday? Did you see something like bluewaffle but worse? If you never seen bluewaffle don't. I saw it on accident and almost lost my appetite for a week


----------



## meowtacles (Sep 14, 2011)

Oh, my cousin made sure I saw that, don't worry.  Just pregnant and I guess baby likes to make me puke.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 14, 2011)

Conker said:


> He's proven himself to be a much more trustworthy and less insane scholar than yourself. Odds are I"ll hope that both of you are wrong, anyways.



Right, because having perfect relationships/friendships with all the people you knew on earth in heaven is such a horrible thought...

What we do here on earth, is being used to build us a house in heaven. (For those that are saved) Our lives on earth are the stones used to make that house.


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## Xenke (Sep 14, 2011)

I have pills.

They really don't do anything.

30 per bottle, once a day, etc.

I'm only taking them as a precautionary measure prescribed by the doctor.


----------



## Telnac (Sep 14, 2011)

Getting lethal doses of meds is trivial.  Anyone can kill themselves with a single bottle of Tylenol.  You'd be surprised how toxic that crap is to your system.  I screwed up a doctor's instructions and took 6000mg in a single day b/c I was on other meds that screwed with my short term memory so I kept taking a dose, forgetting I took it and taking it again.  The only reason I finally figured out how much I took is by counting how many pills were left in the bottle (thankfully it was a new one.)  6000 mg isn't much: 12 pills of extra-strength Tylenol.  But it's a toxic dose.  I was puking blood nearly all the next day, and was suffering from painful nausea for 3 days after that... and that was with medical help!  Without medical intervention, I would have been in really bad shape.  I probably would have survived, but I would have had permanent liver damage.  A lethal dose probably isn't much more than what I took, and I did that by accident!

(Anti-suicide note: death by Tylenol poisoning is a REALLY HORRIBLE way to go that takes of days of agony before you finally pass.  If anyone is suicidal, seek help rather than considering offing yourself with anything, much less Tylenol.)


----------



## Unsilenced (Sep 14, 2011)

How did this thread become about suicide by pills?


----------



## Telnac (Sep 14, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> How did this thread become about suicide by pills?


Sorry; subtle thread derailment.    I'll stay OT now.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 14, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> How did this thread become about suicide by pills?


 Because i asked how Gavrill "died" and it was by OD

But if it's okay with you guys let's keep his back on track


----------



## The_Lightning_Fox (Sep 14, 2011)

Well think of me as an opprotunist. I expect myself to die, be burnt, set in a pot on a mantle with my portrait on a mantle, staring at my great-great grandkids. However if something _does_ happen say St. P. is there looking at my life then saying "it says here you din't beleive in god" in reply, "yeah, but you know I never took things on face value, and why would god care if I beleive if I still acted moraly?"

Or any other possible after death outcomes there are!


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## Ikrit (Sep 14, 2011)

PILLZ HERE!


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## dinosaurdammit (Sep 14, 2011)

meowtacles said:


> Oh, my cousin made sure I saw that, don't worry.  Just pregnant and I guess baby likes to make me puke.



Ginger helps, also there is this sucker without a stick called preggipops or something and I used it. Also the best anti nausea meds are REGLAN ask for it insta relief.


----------



## Tycho (Sep 14, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> What we do here on earth, is being used to build us a house in heaven. (For those that are saved) Our lives on earth are the stones used to make that house.



Whatevs.  I got a condominium in Hell and a vacation home in Purgatory.  Vice is nice.


----------



## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 14, 2011)

Ikrit said:


> PILLZ HERE!


 bro not cool :|


----------



## Conker (Sep 14, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Right, because having perfect relationships/friendships with all the people you knew on earth in heaven is such a horrible thought...
> 
> What we do here on earth, is being used to build us a house in heaven. (For those that are saved) Our lives on earth are the stones used to make that house.


No, there is no relationship with those on earth in Heaven. It's just a relationship with God. That does suck.

Granted, your idea is just as silly, but it's more uplifting and hopeful...which is odd coming from you. Are you feeling alright?


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 14, 2011)

Conker said:


> *No, there is no relationship with those on earth in Heaven.* It's just a relationship with God. That does suck.
> 
> Granted, your idea is just as silly, but it's more uplifting and hopeful...which is odd coming from you. Are you feeling alright?



Not what Scripture says. Heaven is everything perfected. Now, here is a question. If we are just wiped, and everything we do here means nothing, explain the rewards that are talked about in Scripture. 

Explain how it makes sense that God would give you gifts and interests, friends only to say in the end, "hey, all of that means nothing now"

Again Scripture tells us that Christ is building us a house, using our lives here as the building blocks.


Edit: You also completely forget about the new earth.


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## Tycho (Sep 14, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Again Scripture tells us that Christ is building us a house, using our lives here as the building blocks.



Will someone tell that fuckhead to hurry up? I could have hired half a dozen Mexican bricklayers and have had a castle built by now.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 14, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Will someone tell that fuckhead to hurry up? I could have hired half a dozen Mexican bricklayers and have had a castle built by now.



Your life isn't over hence why the house is not finished (This assumes you are in fact saved though), but I am sure you can find ways of finishing your life if you are in a hurry.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Sep 14, 2011)

I have the humility to admit that I am too small and insignificant an entity to rightfully claim that my views (original or adopted) on this matter are of any consequence.


----------



## Tycho (Sep 14, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Your life isn't over hence why the house is not finished



Well then, how fucking useless is this? Why am I asking this Christ asshole and his asshole boss to build a house for me that they PROMISE I'll see AFTER I'm dead? Fuck that.  I'm going down to the Home Depot and hiring Juan and his brothers to get this shit done.


----------



## Conker (Sep 14, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Not what Scripture says. Heaven is everything perfected. Now, here is a question. If we are just wiped, and everything we do here means nothing, explain the rewards that are talked about in Scripture.
> 
> Explain how it makes sense that God would give you gifts and interests, friends only to say in the end, "hey, all of that means nothing now"
> 
> ...


I'm not going to explain shit because I can't. I only know what I learned in class. I do think it's funny that Jesus building us a house isn't something you take as a metaphor though. It sounds like a metaphor.


----------



## Smart_Cookie (Sep 14, 2011)

Conker said:


> I'm not going to explain shit because I can't. I only know what I learned in class. I do think it's funny that Jesus building us a house isn't something you take as a metaphor though. It sounds like a metaphor.


 
You have to remember Rukh is a fundamentalist Calvinist, (and so doesn't accept others as Christian), and Calvinists are known for having some, um, _imaginative_ views. You're better off asking someone from a more mainstream theologian (such as the ones in your class) if you want some serious answers.

That said, what did they have to say on the nature of Hell/Judgement, Conker?


----------



## Heimdal (Sep 15, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:
			
		

> using our lives here as the building blocks.





Conker said:


> I do think it's funny that Jesus building us a house isn't something you take as a metaphor though. It sounds like a metaphor.



Nope! When you die you're getting added to Jesus' corpsehouse!

Maybe I'll be a fucking stair?


----------



## greg-the-fox (Sep 15, 2011)

What happens after I die you say?
NOTHING!
[yt]TN2OkuXrm5k[/yt]


----------



## Tycho (Sep 15, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> Nope! When you die you're getting added to Jesus' corpsehouse!
> 
> Maybe I'll be a fucking stair?



OUR HOUSE, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET


----------



## Bliss (Sep 15, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> If we are just wiped, and everything we do here means nothing, explain the rewards that are talked about in Scripture.


Explain how is this Scripture a reliable peer-reviewed source and, if it is not, why is it any better than the shiz I write. :V



Tycho said:


> Well then, how fucking useless is this? Why am I asking this Christ asshole and his asshole boss to build a house for me that they PROMISE I'll see AFTER I'm dead? Fuck that.  I'm going down to the Home Depot and hiring Juan and his brothers to get this shit done.


You are win, sire, and so are Mexicans.


----------



## Conker (Sep 15, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> That said, what did they have to say on the nature of Hell/Judgement, Conker?


Been a bit, lemme see if I can remember some of what was said. There was one really...uh kind of scary dude who believed the book of Revelations word for word and said that's how the judgment would start and how the world would end. He couldn't explain how God could be loving yet so ripe to kill off a 1/3 of everything on the world through disease and other disasters, or how God could be so loving yet use plagues to pretty much blackmail those into following him, or they'd die. Revelations is a fucked up book.

Few people went with the whole cliched "Heaven is a nice pretty place where you can see all your family members and everything is good and fulfilling all the time forever" I think that would be boring.

I was the token atheist and gave my interpretation: NOTHING BITCHES 

No one had any concrete views of Hell, other than "the place is bad and you're all alone." I suppose the being alone thing is kind of sensible, but I see no real basis for it. Views ranged from simply "being out of God's graces and therefore in emotional agony" to "FIRE PIT FOR ETERNITY! ENJOY BURNING FOREVER" which I find to be pretty terrible and a punishment that doesn't fit any human crime. I don't think most people comprehend "eternity" when they spout off that shit.

I told everyone that Hell was probably one big party for those that weren't stuckup and annoying and that I"d have more fun then all of them while they enjoyed the pleasantries of heaven. "Hitler can throw a better party than Mother Teresa"

That was a really fun class actually...and I was one of two people to get an A in it.


----------



## Attaman (Sep 15, 2011)

When you're dead, you're dead. That's my belief. Nothingness is at once quite the bitch, and a wonderful relief. For starters, it means there isn't an omnipotent dick watching over us who will sentence me to an eternity of Torture / Boredom / Isolation / what-have-you simply because I didn't actively worship him / her / it / them.


----------



## Kyrodo (Sep 15, 2011)

There's no sense in fearing the inevitable. I honestly don't care whether or not there is life after death, and if  there is such, there shouldn't be. There goes the overall saying, you only live once so you better damn well make it count. And if your life sucked, well then it sucks to be you. I'm more worried about whether or not I've lived a life worth living, worth being satisfied with. 

On that note, I think I would reincarnate into a deadly ray gun. Sounds like fun!


----------



## Telnac (Sep 15, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> You have to remember Rukh is a fundamentalist Calvinist, (and so doesn't accept others as Christian), and Calvinists are known for having some, um, _imaginative_ views. You're better off asking someone from a more mainstream theologian (such as the ones in your class) if you want some serious answers.


?  Calvinists don't believe other Christians are... Christian?  I've heard arguments from Catholics & Orthodox Christians that Protestants aren't "real" Christians b/c there is no unbroken like of apostolic authority.  If Calvinists don't believe that members of other denominations are Christian too, I'd like to hear the reasoning why.

I'm an anti-denominational Christian myself.  I believe the very existence of denominations violates the Word of God.  Aside from that, my views on life after death are pretty standard: death, eventual resurrection, judgment, Paradise or Hell.  But where I differ in my beliefs from most Christians is my belief that Hell is a literal second death.  Simply put, those who don't want to live in Paradise with God don't have to, they can be destroyed instead.  I believe that only the Devil & his fallen angels will remain in Hell eternally.

To those who want to draw me into a debate: don't bother.  These are my beliefs.  You're welcome to share them... or not.  I used to get involved in a lot of religious debates online, but I just don't see the point any more.  I came to believe what I believe because of what I experienced when I set out of my path of spiritual discovery many years ago, not because someone won a debate in an Internet forum.


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## Tycho (Sep 15, 2011)

Telnac said:


> ?  Calvinists don't believe other Christians are... Christian?



They think their Christianity is better than your Christianity.  They think their Christianity is the one true way.  They think they are the TRUE Christians.  You know how that line of thinking goes.


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## Telnac (Sep 16, 2011)

Tycho said:


> They think their Christianity is better than your Christianity.  They think their Christianity is the one true way.  They think they are the TRUE Christians.  You know how that line of thinking goes.


Ah, yes.  One of the main reasons I'm an ANTI-denominational Christian.  I don't get that "us-vs-them" thinking, especially when we're all supposed to be following the same God.


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## Bliss (Sep 16, 2011)

Telnac said:


> I've heard arguments from Catholics & Orthodox Christians that Protestants aren't "real" Christians b/c there is no unbroken like of apostolic authority.


We did not like giving money to Pope and his battalion of saints.



> To those who want to draw me into a debate: don't bother.  These are my beliefs.  You're welcome to share them... or not.  I used to get involved in a lot of religious debates online, but I just don't see the point any more.  I came to believe what I believe because of what I experienced when I set out of my path of spiritual discovery many years ago, not because someone won a debate in an Internet forum.


Pussy. :V


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 16, 2011)

Conker said:


> That was a really fun class actually...and I was one of two people to get an A in it.



It's somewhat ironic, but atheists tend to understand religion better than the actual followers of said religion. Either way sounds like it was a fun class.



Telnac said:


> ?  Calvinists don't believe other Christians are... Christian?  I've heard arguments from Catholics & Orthodox Christians that Protestants aren't "real" Christians b/c there is no unbroken like of apostolic authority.  If Calvinists don't believe that members of other denominations are Christian too, I'd like to hear the reasoning why.
> 
> I'm an anti-denominational Christian myself.  I believe the very existence of denominations violates the Word of God.


 
It's more that Rukh's a fundamentalist and so believes everyone who doesn't exactly agree with him is not actually a christian. (He'll say he accepts all christians, but defines only other calvinists as christians.) That said, Calvinists are particularly notorious for this kind of thinking. Not sure why, probably has to do with their various beliefs which more or less throw free will and personal responsibility out the window.

I'm not particularly interested in a big internet debate either, but what are your thoughts on the multiple differing translations and interpretations of the different sets of christian holy texts? (Including things like the catholic traditions, book of mormon, apocrypha, rastafarian beliefs, etc.) - Are people supposed to believe one particular thing, or would you say all these differing views are minor considerations compared to the central tenants involving Jesus or any general savior figure?


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## Telnac (Sep 16, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> It's more that Rukh's a fundamentalist and so believes everyone who doesn't exactly agree with him is not actually a christian. (He'll say he accepts all christians, but defines only other calvinists as christians.) That said, Calvinists are particularly notorious for this kind of thinking. Not sure why, probably has to do with their various beliefs which more or less throw free will and personal responsibility out the window.


Yeah, I'm not big on the whole "predestined few" concept that I think you're hinting at.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that someone who holds that view isn't a Christian, tho.



Mojotech said:


> I'm not particularly interested in a big internet debate either, but what are your thoughts on the multiple differing translations and interpretations of the different sets of christian holy texts? (Including things like the catholic traditions, book of mormon, apocrypha, rastafarian beliefs, etc.) - Are people supposed to believe one particular thing, or would you say all these differing views are minor considerations compared to the central tenants involving Jesus or any general savior figure?


I believe the core teaching that Jesus died for our sins and that by accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior, someone can receive forgiveness for their sins and enter a state of grace.  That said, I believe that "Lord" and "Savior" cannot be separated as is so commonly interpreted by what I like to call "feel good Christianity."  You can't just say a prayer & go on living your life however you like.  I believe Jesus wants us to be more like Him: serving both God and those around us & also leading by example to encourage others to do likewise.

I don't consider myself to be all that righteous in deed or in thought, but I do my best to follow Jesus' teachings.  In truth, I think that's the best that any Christian can do.  No, I don't believe 100% what Catholics believe, or Baptists, Calvinists, Mormons or any of a hundred different denominations.  I believe that anyone who's making an honest effort to follow Christ is a fellow brother or sister in Christ, regardless of how their interpretation of Scripture may differ from mine... with a couple of exceptions.  I believe the Bible makes it very explicitly clear that we are not to judge others, or God will judge us by the same hard standard.  I know there are many very judgmental people who call themselves Christian but whose lives are better examples of the Pharisees that Jesus Himself condemned than of anyone who's making an honest effort to follow Christ.  I have no right to judge them myself, but I do believe they're in for a very rude awakening when the Day of Judgment arrives.  The other exception is the other side of the coin.  I believe "feel good Christianity" is not Christianity at all.  Anyone who believes they're saved because they said a prayer but who makes no effort to follow Jesus' teachings is only lying to themselves and to God.  Anyone who teaches others to do likewise isn't serving God at all, but the Devil.

To answer your particular examples:
I believe there are no translations of the Bible that's authoritative.  I believe the Bible, as it was originally written in the original tongues, is the Word of God.  English translations are great, but I'm not someone who believes the King James version (or any other version) is the one correct translation.  I use several translations, because none of them are 100% perfect.  For one verse in particular (1 Thess 5:22) I've had to go back to the Greek to understand how it was really meant to be interpreted, because many people (even many pastors) interpret it in a very different and dangerous way.

I researched the history behind the Great Schism, and have concluded that the Orthodox Christians were the ones in the right in that conflict.  In my opinion, the Catholic Church lost all apostolic authority when they laid siege to Constantinople and opened up Eastern Europe to Muslim expansion.

The only reason I'm not Orthodox is that all Orthodox Christians I've talked to refuse to accept Protestants as fellow Christians.  I cannot be a part of a church that can't recognize that simple fact.

I like the LDS church's strong stand in support of the family.  One of my best friends is Mormon, and even though I am not one myself, she accepts me as a follow Christian.  The main reason I'm not Mormon myself is because I researched it and found problems with several fundamental teachings by Joseph Smith.  I have to therefore conclude that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet of God.  I won't go as far as some others do & proclaim him to be a false prophet.  I simply believe that he was a victim of his own ego.  I believe he served God to the best of his ability, but I don't believe he was an actual prophet.

I haven't read the Apocrypha.  I'd like to someday, when I have the time.

I know next to nothing about rastafarian beliefs.


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## FlynnCoyote (Sep 16, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> What we do here on earth, is being used to build us a house in heaven. (For those that are saved) Our lives on earth are the stones used to make that house.


 
I`m pretty sure this is intended metaphorically. It`s like saying that every good deed is representative of a piece of your home. If heaven were to exist, you must realize that such a realm would be far more than just another glowier version of a city on Earth right? 



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Not what Scripture says. Heaven is everything perfected. Now, here is a question. If we are just wiped, and everything we do here means nothing, explain the rewards that are talked about in Scripture.



Be aware, I am new to Luciferianism, so I`m just citing what I`ve briefly managed to pick up on it: 

There are no rewards. God created man to satisfy his own desire to be worshipped, nothing more. In his own little section of the realm of Chaos, he sat and revelled in his own superiority. It was Lucifer who brought knowledge to mankind. This is most thoroughly represented in the story of Adam and Eve, where Lucifer encouraged Eve to partake of knowledge. This was against God`s will. Obtaining knowledge is the first step towards obtaining power, and power enables our souls a better chance to endure beyond death, whereupon we enter the realm of Chaos. 

God did not want equals, and cursed mankind with short lifespans and sickness to keep their chances of immotality low. Lucifer was banished and confined to prevent further transgressions upon Earth and God once again imposed his rule. This is apparent due to God`s word being far more widespread and enforced than Lucifers. 

A soul that enters Chaos with knowledge and an open minded willingness to move forward will stand a chance to continue the journey towards enlightenment and even godhood. A soul that enters without will simply fall back into Cosmos to lead another life, bereft of memory and likely fated to repeat unless their next life offers change. It is for this reason that I abhor fundamentalist religions in all forms. I have no problems with people being of any particular faith so long as they can be open minded about it and be willing to accept other possibilities.



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Explain how it makes sense that God would give you gifts and interests, friends only to say in the end, "hey, all of that means nothing now"



Tell me Rukh, since I don`t know: Were you raised christian (or calvinist or whatever) or did you come to this faith later in life? If the former I would encourage you to explore the texts of other faiths, particularly Luciferianism. If nothing else, you will gain a deeper insight into your own faith. The reason I point this out is because there is a difference between education and indoctrination. 

These are wiki pages, but they give the gist of it. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism


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## Tycho (Sep 16, 2011)

Ishtar5 said:


> Tell me Rukh, since I don`t know: Were you raised christian (or calvinist or whatever) or did you come to this faith later in life? If the former I would encourage you to explore the texts of other faiths



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

DID YOU SERIOUSLY JUST ASK RUKH TO DO THAT


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 16, 2011)

Telnac said:


> Yeah, I'm not big on the whole "predestined few" concept that I think you're hinting at.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that someone who holds that view isn't a Christian, tho.


 
I wouldn't either, but tell that to them. :V I told you I wasn't looking for a long post and won't be responding to most of that, but what I got from that is you're sick and tired of, say, the kinds of people who think they're better just because they have Jayzus, but act shitty anyway, especially in a holier-than-thou way, right?



Ishtar5 said:


> Tell me Rukh, since I don`t know: Were you raised christian (or calvinist or whatever) or did you come to this faith later in life? If the former I would encourage you to explore the texts of other faiths, particularly Luciferianism. If nothing else, you will gain a deeper insight into your own faith. The reason I point this out is because there is a difference between education and indoctrination.


 
Oh dear, this thread is about to get exponentially more awful.

That said, I can answer that- Rukh was not originally Christian. He became a born again christian later in an attempt to replace his alcoholism with the emotional high religions bring.


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## Telnac (Sep 16, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> I wouldn't either, but tell that to them. :V I told you I wasn't looking for a long post and won't be responding to most of that, but what I got from that is you're sick and tired of, say, the kinds of people who think they're better just because they have Jayzus, but act shitty anyway, especially in a holier-than-thou way, right?


Essentially, yes.

Sorry for the long post; I thought you were asking me to elaborate on exactly what my views are.

Oh, to respond to the person who called me a coward for refusing to debate: actually, I love debate!  I enjoy debating religion, politics and any other hot topic... when my opponent's face to face.  However, debating online is utterly pointless. I only have the time to post a few times a day.  When someone I'm debating with has nothing but free time, there is no way whatsoever I could hope to post enough to counter all of their arguments.  When the "winner" of a debate thread ends up being the person who can spam the most, that's not a true debate.  Therefore, any attempts to debate online ends up simply being a waste of everyone's time.  That and, as I said before, I didn't come to Christ because someone won a debate online.  Even if I win a debate, it wouldn't change the minds of the entrenched atheists (or whatever) I'm debating with, and they aren't going to change my mind if they win.  So what's the point?


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## Heimdal (Sep 16, 2011)

Ishtar5 said:


> I`m pretty sure this is intended metaphorically. It`s like saying that every good deed is representative of a piece of your home. If heaven were to exist, you must realize that such a realm would be far more than just another glowier version of a city on Earth right?



Here's the deal. Mankind is responsible for building this house, supplying all the bricks, and supervising each other. As soon as we're done God, the huge dick that he is, finally shows up and will be all, "LOOK WHAT I MADE FOR YOU! ONLY SOME OF YOU GET TO LIVE HERE!"

Hurray fundamentalism.

If fundamentalists are right, I bet even they will grow to hate God after spending some time with him.


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## Lobar (Sep 16, 2011)

Telnac said:


> When the "winner" of a debate thread ends up being the person who can spam the most, that's not a true debate.


 
I don't think anyone here would say Roose Hurro has "won" any debates here.


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 16, 2011)

Well it seems that a lot of people of their differences, don't bash other for their opinion and belief. And @mojotech if you are not amused by this thread please stop looking at it seriously :/


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 16, 2011)

Dj_whoohoo said:


> Well it seems that a lot of people of their differences, don't bash other for their opinion and belief. And @mojotech if you are not amused by this thread please stop looking at it seriously :/


 
You seem to have confused the (near)universal loathing of Rukh on these boards for me not liking your thread despite my rather civil posts actually engaging in honest discussion. 

You're new to the board so I'll forgive you for this error. Once. :V


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## Dj_whoohoo (Sep 16, 2011)

Well yes I'm still fairly new, and no i didn't read that guy comment I don't really want to look at since you don't like it. I never said you were bashing anybody, I was just saying in general.


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## Bliss (Sep 16, 2011)

Telnac said:


> Oh, to respond to the person who called me a coward for refusing to debate:


That'd be me. :3c



> actually, I love debate!  I enjoy debating religion, politics and any other hot topic... when my opponent's face to face.  However, debating online is utterly pointless. I only have the time to post a few times a day.  When someone I'm debating with has nothing but free time, there is no way whatsoever I could hope to post enough to counter all of their arguments.  When the "winner" of a debate thread ends up being the person who can spam the most, that's not a true debate.  Therefore, any attempts to debate online ends up simply being a waste of everyone's time.  That and, as I said before, I didn't come to Christ because someone won a debate online.  Even if I win a debate, it wouldn't change the minds of the entrenched atheists (or whatever) I'm debating with, and they aren't going to change my mind if they win.  So what's the point?


Excuses... pussy. Debates are not to be won but to be enjoyed, mechragon. :V


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## Telnac (Sep 16, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> That'd be me. :3c
> 
> Excuses... pussy. Debates are not to be won but to be enjoyed, mechragon. :V


*lol*  Where'd you find the pic of that cat?


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## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 17, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> You have to remember Rukh is a fundamentalist Calvinist, (and so doesn't accept others as Christian), and Calvinists are known for having some, um, _imaginative_ views. You're better off asking someone from a more mainstream theologian (such as the ones in your class) if you want some serious answers.


 
Keep spewing your crap Mojo. You can lie all you want. I have stated over and over, I am a non denominational Christian, as is the church I go to. And, as long as someone holds to the essentials of the faith, I hold them to be a brother or sister of the faith. Which by the way, before you even say anything else, is listed in BOLD, on my FA page.
So, you can claim I am a "fundie" all you want. But I am not. Unless you say anyone who calls themselves a Christian and actually listens to the Word of God is a fundie, then yeah, I am.

At this point, you can stop with the insults at me. Its gotten quite old. Please, come up with a new tactic. You are boring me.

Oh and "mainstream" or "liberal" Christianity, anything that takes the Word of God and tries to submit it to what they want. Yeah, that's wrong.
If you come to the Word with a social agenda you won't get very far. Instead, YOU must change and adapt to what it says.

Which basically boils down to this:
Are you trying to make the Word of God submit to your wants (which is incorrect), or are you submitting to the Word of God?


Conker said:


> I'm not going to explain shit because I can't. I only know what I learned in class. I do think it's funny that Jesus building us a house isn't something you take as a metaphor though. It sounds like a metaphor.


 Ah, what you learned in class. So, you take your teachers word for it blindly then? Good to know. I can tell you, its not a metaphor. We will have a house, a place to live, in heaven.

And yet again, you also forget that the heaven that exists right now, won't last forever. Remember? the new heaven and new earth? Or, did your "professor" forget about that?



Telnac said:


> ?  Calvinists don't believe other Christians  are... Christian?  I've heard arguments from Catholics & Orthodox  Christians that Protestants aren't "real" Christians b/c there is no  unbroken like of apostolic authority.  If Calvinists don't believe that  members of other denominations are Christian too, I'd like to hear the  reasoning why.
> 
> I'm an anti-denominational Christian myself.  I believe the very  existence of denominations violates the Word of God.  Aside from that,  my views on life after death are pretty standard: death, eventual  resurrection, judgment, Paradise or Hell.  But where I differ in my  beliefs from most Christians is my belief that Hell is a literal second  death.  Simply put, those who don't want to live in Paradise with God  don't have to, they can be destroyed instead.  I believe that only the  Devil & his fallen angels will remain in Hell eternally.
> 
> To those who want to draw me into a debate: don't bother.  These are my  beliefs.  You're welcome to share them... or not.  I used to get  involved in a lot of religious debates online, but I just don't see the  point any more.  I came to believe what I believe because of what I  experienced when I set out of my path of spiritual discovery many years  ago, not because someone won a debate in an Internet forum.



Again, Mojo likes to type bs a lot. The following is straight from my FA page:

*I do not break fellowship with anyone  who holds to the essentials of the faith (i.e., the Trinity, the Deity  of Christ, Jesus' Physical Resurrection, Virgin Birth, Salvation by  Grace through Faith alone, One God, and the Gospel being the death,  burial, and resurrection of Jesus) I strongly believe that God's grace  and mercy are so extensive that within the Christian community there is a  wide range of beliefs and as long as the essentials are not violated,  then anyone who holds to those essentials but differs in the  non-essentials is my brother or sister in Christ.*



Tycho said:


> They think their Christianity is better than your  Christianity.  They think their Christianity is the one true way.  They  think they are the TRUE Christians.  You know how that line of thinking  goes.



Look above. The only thing I preach, is God's Word is God's Word. Many "mainstream" Christians, don't even hold to that or the essentials of the faith. And many "mainstream Christians" have tried adapting the faith to fit with modern thinking. And that is where I stand up and say that is wrong.


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## Attaman (Sep 17, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> And, as long as someone holds to the essentials of the faith, I hold them to be a brother or sister of the faith. Which by the way, before you even say anything else, is listed in BOLD, on my FA page.


As a note, to people who have not seen Rukh's "essentials" before: Said essentials are taking the Bible as 100% literal / exact, and using the same interpretation of such that Rukh agrees with. For instance, if you think the "Two bears to maul youths" means "The bears killed the youths" or "The youths are children", you're not reading it correctly, and if you think certain passages are hyperbolic / to be ignored, you are not a True Christian as you are not accepting the Bible in full.

Feel free to look at Rukh's journals, if you doubt such a claim. He has made several journals on the subject (and will save a lot of reading and replying via Rukh: Rukh has gone quite into his beliefs in his journals, so looking there will save you from having to pester him with a dozen questions that have been answered by him both on FA and on FAF).



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Ah, what you learned in class. *So, you take your teachers word for it blindly then? Good to know.* I can tell you, its not a metaphor. We will have a house, a place to live, in heaven.


 I'm sorry, Rukh, but you _have_ to admit there is an irony here. Even if you believe that the irony is due to a correct viewpoint on one side but not the other, you have to admit there's an irony in dismissing someone's belief in a teacher's word out of faith. 



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> And yet again, you also forget that the heaven that exists right now, won't last forever. Remember? the new heaven and new earth? Or, did your "professor" forget about that?


 Rukh, did you just not chide someone for insults, then directly insult the poster's professor / teacher as well as imply a negative degree of intellectual capability to them as well?



Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Again, Mojo likes to type bs a lot. The following is straight from my FA page:
> 
> *I do not break fellowship with anyone  who holds to the essentials of the faith (i.e., the Trinity, the Deity  of Christ, Jesus' Physical Resurrection, Virgin Birth, Salvation by  Grace through Faith alone, One God, and the Gospel being the death,  burial, and resurrection of Jesus) I strongly believe that God's grace  and mercy are so extensive that within the Christian community there is a  wide range of beliefs and as long as the essentials are not violated,  then anyone who holds to those essentials but differs in the  non-essentials is my brother or sister in Christ.*
> 
> Look above. The only thing I preach, is God's Word is God's Word. Many "mainstream" Christians, don't even hold to that or the essentials of the faith. And many "mainstream Christians" have tried adapting the faith to fit with modern thinking. And that is where I stand up and say that is wrong.


I advise you to read Rukh's journals, to see which word he preaches. It is... not for many people. Rukh admits such. And, if you read it, you'll readily see why ("Homosexuality is done purely to spit in God's eye." "False Christians." Etcetera).


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## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 17, 2011)

Attaman, how about we stay on topic instead of derailing it. Considering there is nothing about the OP's question anywhere in your post. I at least stayed somewhat on topic.


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## Aetius (Sep 17, 2011)

Christianity became uncool when they called off the Crusades.


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## Tycho (Sep 17, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Look above. The only thing I preach, is God's Word is God's Word. Many "mainstream" Christians, don't even hold to that or the essentials of the faith. And many "mainstream Christians" have tried adapting the faith to fit with modern thinking. And that is where I stand up and say that is wrong.



Translation for the rest of us:


> I'M BETTER THAN YOU, YOU'RE WORSE THAN ME



He thinks he has the best interpretation out of the hundreds upon hundreds of interpretations out there, of a book with a hundred different authors who couldn't ever seem to agree on how the story should go.  There are so many glaring flaws, contradictions, etc. in the Bible it beggars belief that THIS is considered GOSPEL TRUTH by a bunch of maniacs who are all convinced that it was somehow penned by God himself.

I'm going to take a little license with a line borrowed from a great movie and say "What does God need with a BOOK?"




Crusader Mike said:


> Christianity became uncool when they called off the Crusades.



KILLIN' BROWN PEOPLE FER JEEZUS

EDIT:  Hey.  Hey Rukh.

I'm actually the second coming of Jesus.


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## Rukh_Whitefang (Sep 17, 2011)

Tycho said:


> *Corrected* Translation for the rest of us:
> 
> We cannot come to God's Word with a social agenda and make it fit our wants. Instead, we must change and adapt to what is says.
> The issue is simple: Are you submiting to the Word of God or are you making the Word of God submit to your desires?






Tycho said:


> I'm going to take a little license with a line borrowed from a great movie and say "What does God need with a BOOK?


God's Word. Its His Word. Its not just a book. Again, its His Word.


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## Tycho (Sep 17, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> God's Word. Its His Word. Its not just a book. Again, its His Word.



No it's not.  It's a bunch of words in a book.  Someone else put those words there.  God doesn't run his own printing press.

Someone else at some time (or at multiple times, actually) SAID "This is the word of God".  Did God write it? No.  A man with a stylus, a man with a quill pen, a man with a printing press, a man with a keyboard, they WROTE it.  They just copied from the guy with the stylus, pen, press or keyboard before them.  And those copied others before them.  They all claim it to be the word of God, even as discrepancies and contradictions pile up.  Things get written in, things get written out.

So, what was that ORIGINAL BIBLE like, Rukh? The one that GOD WROTE HIMSELF, WITH HIS WORDS, SO THAT NO ONE COULD FUDGE ON THE DETAILS? You must have read it if you're a true Christian who follows the true word of God, and not the word of someone who copied a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the "true word of God".  It's like a game of Telephone.  You know that game, right?


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 17, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Keep spewing your crap Mojo. You can claim I am a "fundie" all you want. But I am not. Unless you say anyone who calls themselves a Christian and actually listens to the Word of God is a fundie, then yeah, I am.



Ahem, "Fundamentalism is strict adherence to specific theological doctrines typically in reaction against Modernist theology.".
Please understand the claims people are making before getting all offended. Or at least take a moment to acquaint yourself with the basic terminology. That said,

Hey kids! Let's play "Can you spot the problem with this argument?"! Just follow the bouncing ball!
"If by crap you mean "Really awesome stuff everyone should read and agree with", then yeah I'm spouting crap."
See, the problem is you can't just redefine what people call you into something good, especially when it's clear you already know the meaning- it's nothing but a way to attempt to derail the argument by getting into semantics, or mentally reaffirm your own position without actually addressing what others said. Possibly both. It's only slightly more advanced than "I know you are but what am I?", but equally retarded.


Also,


Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Attaman, how about we stay on topic instead of derailing it. Considering there is nothing about the OP's question anywhere in your post. I at least stayed somewhat on topic.


 
It's kinda odd how you can come into a thread, start posting stuff entirely off-topic, but the moment someone else calls you out on it or continues down that line suddenly *they* are the one derailing the thread. You've really got to work on your response-dodging skills, Rukh.



Edit: _*EFFORTPOSTIN' IN A RUKHTHREAD 8V *_


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## Commiecomrade (Sep 17, 2011)

For some reason the thought of my own consciousness ceasing to exist frightens me more than an eternity in hell.

Though I have decided I don't know what's going to happen, so, thinking "logically", I gain the most by assuming God exists. Even if the chance is horridly small, an infinite gain is worth an infinite effort. So even if I lean more towards the atheist side, I can't shake Christianity off entirely.


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## FlynnCoyote (Sep 17, 2011)

Commiecomrade said:


> For some reason the thought of my own consciousness ceasing to exist frightens me more than an eternity in hell.
> 
> Though I have decided I don't know what's going to happen, so, thinking "logically", I gain the most by assuming God exists. Even if the chance is horridly small, an infinite gain is worth an infinite effort. So even if I lean more towards the atheist side, I can't shake Christianity off entirely.



Gnosticism or Luciferianism may make more sense to you then if that`s how you feel. Despite the name, Luciferians do not actually have any affiliation with what Christians would call the devil. So don`t be scared, look into it.


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## Bliss (Sep 17, 2011)

An agnostic Finnish pagan (?).

Just to appreciate the culture before this 'immigrant religion' fad. :V


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## Cain (Sep 17, 2011)

I've... 'changed' my 'religious stance' ((Converted and Religion isn't quite right)) from a cold, scientific Atheist, to a skeptical Animist.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Sep 17, 2011)

Jagged Edge said:


> I've... 'changed' my 'religious stance' ((Converted and Religion isn't quite right)) from a cold, scientific Atheist, to a skeptical Animist.


Agnostic here; I think that which is undiscovered is just that.


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## FlynnCoyote (Sep 17, 2011)

Jagged Edge said:


> I've... 'changed' my 'religious stance' ((Converted and Religion isn't quite right)) from a cold, scientific Atheist, to a skeptical Animist.



I was this for a long time. In a way, still am.


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## Aetius (Sep 17, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> An agnostic Finnish pagan (?).
> 
> Just to appreciate the culture before this 'immigrant religion' fad. :V


Everyone knows that the Scandinavians converted to Catholicism because you got to dress up like these awesome mo'fos 

On topic: I really don't see the idea of an afterlife plausible, or how you can keep physical parts of your body after you rotted away.


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## Conker (Sep 17, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> *Ah, what you learned in class. So, you take your teachers word for it blindly then? Good to know. I can tell you, its not a metaphor. We will have a house, a place to live, in heaven.*
> 
> And yet again, you also forget that the heaven that exists right now, won't last forever. Remember? the new heaven and new earth? Or, did your "professor" forget about that?


AbsolutelyfuckingROFL

Actually, the class was just on the Epistles. We mostly were going with that narrow subject, and only went out and beyond when the conversation changed organically. I didn't want to take some gen ed religion class; that's no fun, so I took a specific one. 

My professor has a shitton more credentials than you do; to see you trying to bash him is ridiculous and funny.

Not to mention your whole post stinks of irony.


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## Telnac (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks for clearing that up, Rukh.  As for the particulars of your beliefs, I've found that I can agree with 95% of what most Christians believe and I can usually look past the 5% where our beliefs differ.  It's the Christians who pile a bunch of man-made rules on top of the Bible's teachings or who throw the Bible out of the window in favor of packing the pews that really bother me. 

I wouldn't go so far as saying the former aren't Christians.  But by preaching man-made rules as if they were one of the Ten Commandments (like drinking being a sin... where is that written?  Drinking to excess is a sin, not drinking in and of itself.), they are in risk of calling down all the woes written about in Matthew 23 onto themselves.  Remember, it wasn't to the sinners or pagans of Jesus' day that He reserved His harshest rebuke, but to the Pharisees, the self-righteous religious leaders, and to the teachers of the Law: the people responsible for telling the people the difference between right & wrong.   "They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on  other peopleâ€™s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a  finger to move them."  (Matthew 23:4)  That sounds a lot like ultra-conservative church teachings do today.

 As for "feel good" Christianity, I have to question if they were ever really saved at all or if they look at salvation as simply "fire insurance" rather than the life-altering experience it's supposed to be.  I believe strongly that faith alone is what saves us, but one cannot have true faith and not be called to act upon that faith.  Anyone who truly believes will be moved by Jesus' teachings and good works will naturally flow from their life.  That's how I see the controversial verse James 2:17-- "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."  A lifetime of good works cannot save us if we have not faith, but anyone with faith will be motivated to do good works.

Rukh, I see that you rail a lot against the liberal mindset.  I'm not fond of it either, but I believe the Truth is somewhere between the conservative view & the liberal one.  We are called to follow Christ as our Lord, but that doesn't mean we're called to adhere to a long list of rules.  Christianity is supposed to be about freedom from the bondage of sin and about serving our fellow man.  While I may not agree with a person's homosexual lifestyle, I do believe a sexually active homosexual can still serve God. Who am I to judge someone like that?  I'm sexually attracted to dragons, and would happily have a dragon partner if such a thing were possible! We all have our cross to bear, and no one's close to being perfect.  

That's my opinion, anyway.  Take it for what it's worth.

Back on topic: I personally believe in the concept of "soul sleep:" that we aren't conscious of the passage of time until the Resurrection.  For some reason, that's not a popular belief among mainstream Christians these days.


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## Bliss (Sep 17, 2011)

Telnac said:


> It's the Christians who pile a bunch of man-made rules on top of the Bible's teachings or who throw the Bible out of the window in favor of packing the pews that really bother me.


Is this supposed to mean you don't agree with laws that are not direct sitations from the Bible?

God would surely be tried in International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.



> But by preaching man-made rules as if they were one of the Ten Commandments


I'm fond of man-made rules. Especially bathroom etiquette.



> While *I may not agree with a person's homosexual lifestyle*, I do believe a sexually active homosexual can still serve God. Who am I to judge someone like that? * I'm sexually attracted to dragons*, and would happily have a dragon partner if such a thing were possible! We all have our cross to bear, and no one's close to being perfect.


I had to lie down for a second.

Is this or the closetfag conservatives worse? D:


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## Telnac (Sep 17, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> Is this supposed to mean you don't agree with laws that are not direct sitations from the Bible?
> 
> God would surely be tried in International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.
> 
> I'm fond of man-made rules. Especially bathroom etiquette.


There's a huge difference between man-made civic laws or rules of etiquette and man-made rules that are taught as if they are one of the Ten Commandments.  I don't need God to tell me "Thou shalt wash your hands after using the restroom" to know it's a good rule to follow.



Lizzie said:


> I had to lie down for a second.
> 
> Is this or the closetfag conservatives worse? D:


For the record, one of my better irl friends is gay.  I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but that doesn't mean I condemn anyone who lives that lifestyle, nor does it means that I don't understand why they choose to do so.  Like I said, who am I to judge?


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## Bliss (Sep 17, 2011)

Telnac said:


> For the record, one of my better irl friends is gay.


Oh, yes. The classic _"I'm friends with these gays/women/handicapped people so naturally I'm exempt from being confronted of my idiocy and brain farts"_.



> I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but that doesn't mean I condemn anyone who lives that lifestyle, nor does it means that I don't understand why they choose to do so.  Like I said, who am I to judge?



What on Earth is 'homosexual lifestyle' and how one 'chooses' to live it? I don't think you bother or want to understand at all, or at least are under the _supposition _you do.



> Like I said, who am I to judge?


Well, you apparently are to contradict yourself. It is as religulous as "hate the sin, love the sinner"; a phrase meant to get an exemption of liability. Your message (or "Bible's"/"God's"/etc.) does nothing but try to delegitimise people of their identity.


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## Conker (Sep 17, 2011)

Telnac said:


> There's a huge difference between man-made civic laws or rules of etiquette and man-made rules that are taught as if they are one of the Ten Commandments.  I don't need God to tell me "Thou shalt wash your hands after using the restroom" to know it's a good rule to follow.


Funny thing there, most of the ten commandments are that to, cept the ones that directly involve controlling a giant group of people via worship. 



> For the record, one of my better irl friends is gay.  I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but that doesn't mean I condemn anyone who lives that lifestyle, nor does it means that I don't understand *why they choose to do so*.  Like I said, who am I to judge?


lawl


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 17, 2011)

Conker said:


> Funny thing there, most of the ten commandments are that to, cept the ones that directly involve controlling a giant group of people via worship. lawl


 
My favorite of the ten commandments (or at least the ones that count) is:  "The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.". Truly a vital rule for any society.


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## Conker (Sep 17, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> My favorite of the ten commandments (or at least the ones that count) is:  "The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.". Truly a vital rule for any society.


Lulwut? I don't remember that ever being one of the commandments  

I'm thinking the Thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not commit adultery and the like.

Funny story. When I was forced to go through confirmation classes, they asked me what I thought was the most important commandment. My reply was "thou shall not bang thy neighbors wife for thy neighbor might shoot you in anger." Luckily my teacher had a sense of humor, though he was damned shocked for a bit...


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## Tycho (Sep 17, 2011)

Mojotech said:


> My favorite of the ten commandments (or at least the ones that count) is:  "The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.". Truly a vital rule for any society.



No, no, no.  It's about interpretation, see.  He's saying "Make burritos with flour tortillas until the corn is ready to be used for corn tortillas.  Then you can make tacos with the corn tortillas.  Delicious fish tacos."

It's just common sense.  God loves him some Tex-Mex.


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## Smart_Cookie (Sep 18, 2011)

Conker said:


> Lulwut? I don't remember that ever being one of the commandments
> 
> I'm thinking the Thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not commit adultery and the like.
> 
> Funny story. When I was forced to go through confirmation classes, they asked me what I thought was the most important commandment. My reply was "thou shall not bang thy neighbors wife for thy neighbor might shoot you in anger." Luckily my teacher had a sense of humor, though he was damned shocked for a bit...


 
That first set of commandments was actually thrown out, the actual ten commandments everyone's supposed to follow has things like "Your first-born son belong to the church".


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## Telnac (Sep 18, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> Oh, yes. The classic _"I'm friends with these gays/women/handicapped people so naturally I'm exempt from being confronted of my idiocy and brain farts"_.
> 
> What on Earth is 'homosexual lifestyle' and how one 'chooses' to live it? I don't think you bother or want to understand at all, or at least are under the _supposition _you do.
> 
> Well, you apparently are to contradict yourself. It is as religulous as "hate the sin, love the sinner"; a phrase meant to get an exemption of liability. Your message (or "Bible's"/"God's"/etc.) does nothing but try to delegitimise people of their identity.


Lizzie, I was pointing out the fact that I am sexually attracted to dragons as an example of how being judgmental = being a hypocrite.  "Homosexual lifestyle" = being a sexually active homosexual person.  Do I approve of it?  Well, if my son (when he's old enough to do this) came home to me and announced that he's gay, has a boyfriend and has been sexually active for the last few months, yes I would be disappointed.  So I can't say I approve of it.  Would I fly off the handle, tell him he's going to Hell and throw him out of my life?  No.  That would not only be idiotic, but hypocritical.  I know if dragons existed, and if I found a willing dragon to be my partner, I'd happily engage in a lifestyle that's pretty much identical to the homosexual one.  I know it wouldn't be spiritually correct... but I know my own heart,  I'd probably do it anyway.  That's why, whether I approve of a person's lifestyle choices, I adopt a "live & let live" approach to life.  Judging someone else's life is in effect condemning my own.

There are many activities people engage in that I wouldn't choose to do myself.  There's a huge difference between adopting the attitude of "life & let live" and doing what the Westboro Baptist idiots do, which is nothing more than tearing people down and dragging the name of God though the mud in the process.

Conker, I don't believe people choose to be homosexual.  You can't help what your sexual desires are, but people do choose whether or not they act on their desires.  It's the latter that I was referring to as the lifestyle.  Sorry if the term offends, but the phrase "sexually active homosexual person" is a tad cumbersome and I couldn't think of a better way of phrasing what I was talking about.

And no, there is no commandment about washing your hands after going to the bathroom.  There are civic laws about cleanliness in the OT, which in those days were carried out by judges who were religious figures, a concept that is completely foreign in the western world.  Most of those civic laws do not apply to the Gentiles.  Furthermore, I have read all of Leviticus and Deuteronomy and I don't recall any laws whatsoever about washing your hands after using the restroom.  However, it's been about 2 years since I last read them so I could be wrong.  If so, and you happen to know it: please provide the chapter & verse.  I'd like to read it.

I hope that clears everything up.  Now... any chance we can get back on topic?


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