# S3X SC3N3S in writing pieces



## VÃ¶lf (Mar 12, 2009)

Oh, a debatable topic indeed. It seems like an even worse idea in a furry piece, the reason being... well, let's think about how many people outside the fandom think the entire thing is for fetish purposes? In the meantime, I was just wondering what you'd think of a story with such scenes, maybe, maybe not, an anthro story.

And for those who write a lot, would you write one if the plot allowed, or if it seemed necessary? (50 pages of flirting w/ no sex is a bit of a letdown) _I'm being completely objective on this._ 

Now I know different levels of "passion" occur in different places. For the record let's say that pushes it past the make-out sessions.


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## Shouden (Mar 12, 2009)

As a writer, I've written a few sex scenes. But when you're writing a full fledged novel, you have to be careful about including it. Slip it in a wrong spot or make it too long and it throws off the story. In that case, I would read it, but it really depends on the story.


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## Vore Writer (Mar 12, 2009)

I might read it if I have nothing else to do.

As for my own writing, I'll hint at what the charaters did the night before and/or at what's about to happen, but I won't describe it. I just don't care for sex scenes anymore. They don't add anything to the story.


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## Yorokonde2 (Mar 12, 2009)

Personally, I have a hard time taking most sex scenes serious. I /can/ do it, rather well my source says, but I usually end up giggly by the end. At least I remember I do. I haven't written one in some time.

As for if I would write a sex scene into a story, yes, if it was appropriate for the story. But I also don't think it needs to be extraordinarily long. Pages don't have to be devoted to it. You can have the appropriate impact with a few paragraphs. 

Still... now you'd made me want to try writing one up, just to see if I still can. XD


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## M. LeRenard (Mar 12, 2009)

I will and I have.  Honestly, it doesn't bother me that much, as long as it's not totally out of the blue and really poorly written.  Robert Silverstein knows how to do these very well, and Gary Jennings knows how to freak you out with these very well (especially considering his books are historical fiction).  I've also read the whole Earth's Children series (Jean M. Auel: you might know it better as The Clan of the Cavebear), which is infamous for its sex scenes (including one between two mammoths!), and enjoyed it.
Sex is just like anything else in writing: you should only include it if it enhances the story.  Otherwise it's gratuitous and pointless.
As for writing it, though... well, since I've never had sex, I don't think I could pull it off very well.  So I avoid it.


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## foozzzball (Mar 13, 2009)

The fact this was titled in l33t sp34k says to me that there is a whole lot of taboo around this.

Sex is something people do. People are interested in things people do, hence they are interested in sex. Overdoing it is unwise. Describing a wonderful meal and conversation is likely to be a good scene, until you overdo it and forget there's anything but food in the world. Ditto sex.

Sex is not dirty unless you make it dirty, it is not beautiful unless you make it beautiful. It is a thing to write about like any other, although it is a thing which has strange things hanging around it that other things do not have.

For pete's sake, grow up and understand that writing sex isn't inherantly sleazy.


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## Kindar (Mar 13, 2009)

If the story had a story to it then sex scenes added to it won't cause me to stop reading it.

but if it doesn't have a story I'm probably not going to be able to stick with it long enough to even get to the sex


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## GraemeLion (Mar 13, 2009)

I certainly don't see a taboo in furry around sex.  I don't know why this topic has the leet speak.


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## VÃ¶lf (Mar 14, 2009)

*Sex Scenes in Writing Pieces (Happy?)*

Me never had sex? _Oui...
_Me writing about it? _euh...

_People have accomplished this feat before. Am I going out a limb, and what's more trying it in a novel? -Y3S

But that's what I've got all sorts of readers for. I'm really wary about putting unfinished parts on the site, but I've got plenty of friends and English majors who're right there to tell me how bad it is. Writing-wise, I'm shooting high. If it's no good, I'l trash it.

Believe it or not, I honestly don't read a lot... I wouldn't really care, as long as it's not crap. I've seen some horrible cliches using something like -get this- "throbbing manhood"  I think I'll leave it at that.

All in all, it really doesn't seem to matter to most people, so I've seen. But something tells me published novels are forced to be a bit more on the conservative side than other stories. 

Y0u have a problem with m3 wr1t1ng numb3rs? I w0ulda written it 0utright if I thought you'd hav3 a pr0bl3m wit it. I 41n't b3ing immatur3. I l1k3 my NUMB3R5! >: | Didn't even know they had a full fledged name for it, honestly.


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## foozzzball (Mar 14, 2009)

175 <4113|) <0/\/\/\/\|_|/\/1<471/\/9 <134|21`/.

And that's not the way to do it.


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## Gavrill (Mar 14, 2009)

I like writing sex scenes, so I'd read them. (Even if only to laugh at terrible cliches.)


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## VÃ¶lf (Mar 14, 2009)

I don't know how you get any friends jumping on people like that... :\

And clearly you have your own language. Good for you. I can't read that.

Aside from that, I never said anything about a taboo. I was talking about a stereotype. I noticed when I posted in 3 frags left about a furry game concept everybody thought a furry game would be retarded and have, and I quote, "lots of sex in it." I wouldn't think so myself, just look at Bloody Roar. 

It just seems to me, not just in videogames, but in other articles I've seen, that the almost the whole "outside world", if you will so call it, thinks the entire thing to be some crazy fetish. Look at the anthrocon 09 website and you'll see quite a few stories of how parents hate how their kids are part of the fandom. I would think the stereotype is probably the biggest reason behind it.


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## foozzzball (Mar 14, 2009)

'It's called communicating clearly'. L33t is required syllabus where I'm from.

I'm not a big fan of winning friends for the sake of winning friends, no. Particularly not on forums. If you're going to yell stuff I find outright silly in public, I am liable to tell you so.


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## GraemeLion (Mar 14, 2009)

Volf said:


> It just seems to me, not just in videogames, but in other articles I've seen, that the almost the whole "outside world", if you will so call it, thinks the entire thing to be some crazy fetish. Look at the anthrocon 09 website and you'll see quite a few stories of how parents hate how their kids are part of the fandom. I would think the stereotype is probably the biggest reason behind it.



It is, to a very significant group, who are a significant number of attendees and purchasers at conventions a crazy fetish.

Is it a stereotype when it's got a large bit of truth to it?

We need to accept that in our actions and such when we market furry things.  It's how this market is.  Yes, please, FIGHT the status quo.  Change it.  Make things that are successful.  Build a tribe that goes its own way.

But don't pretend like Furry is some sacrosanct area.  It's a fetish for too many people to pretend like those peeps aren't there.


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## Xipoid (Mar 14, 2009)

I would not even consider reading a book just for its sex scenes. If the book I happen to be reading has some, I won't mind so long as they are written well and fit into the story.

But generally, what I read does not contain any.


As for writing them, yes I do sometimes because I tend to start a story and let it write itself. I might push it in a direction every now and then, but generally the story remains in control of where it ends up. Of course, sometimes the story will lead itself inevitably towards sex (e.g. a love story). I'll stop and consider writing it, then reconsider. If it meets the requirements for being in the story, it is added. If not, I'll nudge the story in a different direction.


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## Poetigress (Mar 14, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> It is a thing to write about like any other



This.

I'm probably just going to be repeating what others have said here, but here goes anyway.

Like so many topics, to me this boils down to "what does the story require?".  That depends on the genre, the characters, and your intended audience, among other things.  If you're writing erotica, erotic romance, etc., obviously there have to be sex scenes, although how explicit those scenes are can vary from sweet and euphemistic to hot and detailed.  If you're writing mainstream fiction for adults, you can have sexual content, of course, but generally speaking, you're probably not going to be giving a detailed play-by-play of the sexual act itself.

And, yes, as with so many other topics, the key is to make sure there's a reason for it.  If it's just there to make the story seem grown-up or to get the reader's attention, it's best left out, I think.  But the addition or omission of sex won't make the story as a whole good or bad, in my opinion -- it's simply something a character might do in a story, like anything else we do in our lives.

As far as the fandom being a fetish, and all that, I don't think I would want to approach my writing by thinking "what does the fandom expect" or "am I reinforcing a stereotype" or something along those lines.  Mainstream fiction has stories and novels that are explicit and those that aren't.  I don't see why the fandom should be expected to be any different.  If there were no sexually explicit material in the fandom, perhaps I'd be giving the topic more thought, but since there's both general-audience material and explicit material, there's room for whatever the story requires.  So again, we're back to what's right for that story and those characters.  

As a personal example, I write both general and adult work, and when I revised my anthro-themed fantasy novel recently, I did tone down the sex scenes, simply because I realized that the more detailed erotic scenes felt out of step (in terms of tone and style) with the rest of the text.  The book wasn't meant as erotica, and while it was important to make clear that the characters had sex, there weren't any details of the act that affected the characters or plot in any unusual way.  Since they could be scaled back without affecting the story, it seemed better to do so, and I think the revision was stronger for it.


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## Shouden (Mar 14, 2009)

I agree with Poetigress on this one. When I started working on my current novel, I had some sex scenes here and there, but the more I think about it, the more I don't think I'll be including any, as it would subtract from the story. Granted, I'll make it clear if the characters had sex or not, but it would seem out of place and stuffed in there if I broke into detail.

On the other hand, I've did a series where I did go into detail with the sex scenes, and I don't think it really subtracted from the story at all.

So, there's and time and place for it.

Also, I believe on the last report, the general art submissions WAY outnumbered the Mature and Adult Art on FA. So, it seems that the Mature and Adult stuff just gets all the attention.


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## ScottyDM (Mar 16, 2009)

Once, a long time ago, I read a porn novel titled _Her Balling Brother_. So I know what porn novels look like. While an interesting experience, it wasn't interesting enough for me to want to repeat it.

I read for the story and the characters.

Many adults have sex (even your parents). However, in a story does the sex life of the adult characters have anything to do with the story? If it does, then it's appropriate to include it.

Next comes the question of _how_ to include it. How much to depict, and in what way. There's a dividing line between narrative summary and immediate scene.

*With narrative summary you can gloss over the juicy details if they aren't needed to move the story forward.* In a piece of my novel I worked on during NaNo I have a chapter where: FMC Penny (human, 22 yr), her mother Katrin (48 yr), MMC Paris (vulpine, 43 yr) and his twin sister Brigett sit on the porch and talk about first times--that is, when and how they lost their virginity. Although the characters are telling their stories, they are using narrative summary to do so. Penny's story is 75 words and Katrin's is 66, but Brigett's story is 285 words. This is because she's not human and her story needs more detail so the readers can see and understand what it is to be a vulpine in heat. And Brigett tells a second story about the first time she made love. That is, she wasn't in heat, but was filling an emotional need not a biological one: 106 words.

With *immediate scene* the reader is experiencing what the characters experience as they experience it. It's possible to switch to a summary for a bit then go back into immediate scene, but *for a sex scene it's probably better to just cut to the next scene.* Mrs. Badger and I watched _Gone With the Wind_ yesterday and there's a rather famous scene where Rhet and Scarlet argue, then he picks her up in his arms and carries her upstairs. She protests at first, but by the time he's halfway up (big staircase) she melts into to his arms. -scenebreak- The next morning Scarlet is awake in bed, big smile on her face, and she's humming a happy tune. As viewers we missed nothing--we _know_ what happened and we imagined every juicy detail.

So how far did the director need to go? Three-quarters of the way up that gigantic staircase was plenty. He didn't need to take his characters to the bedroom door, or through it, or have Rhet toss Scarlet on the bed, or start to unfasten her clothes.

*How far to take a scene depends on audience and taste.* Obviously _Her Balling Brother_ was all about the sex scene and anything else was just filler, and _Gone With the Wind_ was for another less tolerant time. Personally, I like to write for myself. That is, I imagine that the people who might read and enjoy my works are just like me. I prefer minimal detail because what I imagine as the perfect sex scene might not be what someone else imagines as the perfect sex scene.

*And that brings us back to what is appropriate to the story, and to the particular scene.* I like Bernard Doove's stories, mostly, but I think he often puts in too much sexual detail. That is, he could have cut to the next scene a few paragraphs earlier than he typically does. But he has a wonderful example of what I feel is appropriate detail plus too much detail in the same story. In _Unexpected Attractions_ the foxtaur Pandora has oversized mamms, lives in a foxtaur village with more modestly endowed "sisters", and has been constantly teased about her "grotesque" profile. She has no mate or boyfriend. She's rescued by a human named Karl who rather likes her shape. So a few paragraphs before the first scene break she invites Karl to fondle her breasts, and he does so in scene. I felt this was appropriate to this particular story because of who Pandora is and her particular hangup--that scene is as much about the reactions of the characters as it is their actions. The second bit of intimacy is near the first picture where Pandora and Karl make love for the first time. It's only lovemaking and IMO doesn't need to be depicted--and even less so for the other times in the story where they make love. I think part of the problem is that breast fondling takes only a few moments, and so it feels like it's at the same pace as the rest of the story around it. While lovemaking takes several minutes, and as written it seems like narrative summary spliced into the middle of immediate scene. In other words, it doesn't fit the flow.

*For me, I like to show the reader only as much as is necessary to give then an idea of what's going to happen, then cut.* So, if it's just lovemaking and there are no problems or issues, then you can cutway at the staircase. But if your characters start to get into it, the heroine opens herself to the hero, he hovers inches from her in sweet anticipation, then someone starts banging at the door--you'd probably best show all of that.

Back to my NaNo chapter. Rather than have my MMC Paris tell his first time story as a narrative summary, I show it in flashback. It's far more important than even his sister's stories. I use flashback to give immediacy to the story and tell it in far more detail. I also let the other three characters interrupt Paris to clarify some point, to cut away before things get too juicy, and to save time. The story is long and complex. Essentially, Paris was kidnapped and raped by a group of vixens--at least that would be the human reaction to what happened to him, but he and his sister don't see it that way. His sister does find parts of his story shocking, but not the same parts that shock the two human women. I use the story to show the interaction between alpha and lower status vixens, how an alpha can lose her hold over her guy, and how a former beta can rise to alpha status. And more importantly, the relationship between alpha vixen and her guy, such as who calls the shots.

Anyway, I'd thought about posting it to my FA account then linking to it, but it's not quite done. Maybe if there's any interest. It's the "hottest" thing I've written--despite the cutaways.

Scotty


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## Tanzenlicht (Mar 16, 2009)

You left out the 'would read _for_ the sex scenes' option.  Not that I think anyone would admit to doing so, but in the interest of having a proper poll on the subject it should be there.  

Because really, sometimes you just want to skip right to bit with the blindfold, the chocolate sauce and the feather.  *fades to black and lets your imaginations run free*


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## Shouden (Mar 17, 2009)

well put, Tanzen.


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## ScottyDM (Mar 17, 2009)

It's not easy coming up with a representative set of questions for a poll. I had to stare hard at these before I finally decided on one answer that didn't suck too hard.

I think for every casual poll there needs to be one extra answer: "I like tacos." For those of us who simply don't fit any of the other options.

S-


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## Tanzenlicht (Mar 17, 2009)

Well even if that last option were 'would read it' it would be ok.  The responses are worded so as to imply that sex scenes are either tolerable or icky and it seems strange to leave people who like sex scenes out of a poll about sex scenes.  Especially around here.

I was told that one possible response should always be 'Pie'.  This gives an option that doesn't actually require admitting to liking or disliking anything.  

Also pie is important.


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## Shouden (Mar 17, 2009)

yeah, everyone likes pie...in some form or another.


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## Tanzenlicht (Mar 17, 2009)

No, no.  That's the beauty of the one word option.  You don't even have to like pie.  You can just pick it because nothing else works.


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## Shouden (Mar 17, 2009)

I know. I was trying to be funny. but apparently, I wasn't successful


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## ScottyDM (Mar 18, 2009)

:roll:

Not "pie" never "pie" the word to use is "sex"

Now get back on topic.


Oh wait... I have something on topic to say.

I was editing my my incomplete scene the other day, the one where my MMC is telling his first-time story in flashback form. In the flashback the bad girl orders another girl: "Donâ€™t let him tie into her. Grab the base of his ****. Wrap your hand around his knot." Followed immediately with a story interruption by the FMC's mother (who's human): "Wait! You have a knot?" And she questions her daughter if she knew about the knot. Then the MMC's sister says: "Oh, I love the knot!" Followed by three amusing one-paragraph stories about knots.

I realized that too many knot stories were pushing the chapter off track, so I deleted all three.

Yaay for back on track, and back on topic.

Scotty


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## VÃ¶lf (Mar 20, 2009)

That's it, pie! I shoulda put pie!  But that's real pie. Like literal apple pie. I Love it.

I've heard as a rule of thumb mentioning about fluids ruins the whole scene (usually). I haven't really read much in the way of this, nor wrote it. 

Now take the fact I'm trying to get my novel #1 published. Not so sure sex scene fits into the mix and allows everything to remain Honky Dorey.


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## ScottyDM (Mar 21, 2009)

Volf said:


> I've heard as a rule of thumb mentioning about fluids ruins the whole scene (usually). I haven't really read much in the way of this, nor wrote it.


Does body fluids include skunk spray? Or would that be humor. :wink:



Volf said:


> Now take the fact I'm trying to get my novel #1 published. Not so sure sex scene fits into the mix and allows everything to remain Honky Dorey.


That really depends on the market. Probably anthrofiction will be seen by most editors as either YA (young adult) or sci-fi/fantasy. I suspect the core of the definition for YA _should be_ the ages of the main characters. I think you can have sex in YA, but it can't come across as erotica, or worse.


I've been looking at short story markets. I found some interesting guidelines as they relate to how explicit to make your sex and violence. Check out these two:





> "Our readership is adult, so children's stories are unlikely to be accepted unless they are relevant to adults as well. On the other hand, we are not impressed by gratuitous sex and violence, or pointlessly foul language; edgy content should be necessary and appropriate to the plot and characters."


That makes a lot of sense stated that way.



> "We are looking for in-your-face, bloody, gory horror stories that don't shy away from making your stomach turn. These stories need not have a plot, but it's always helpful to explain why your character is slowly melting into a blob of jelly."


Eeeeeee!


I think the answer is: It takes all kinds.

Scotty


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## VÃ¶lf (Mar 26, 2009)

Woah yeah. LOL man, never seen guidelines like that myself  but I agree wit what ur sayin. Yeah, my "proofreader" said my story read like a sci-fi, but the characters "Swear like soldiers" being that they are, that just makes sense. I'll have to FINISH THE STUPID THING and submit it to an editor or something and see what's going on. Hopefully I don't get turned down :O


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