# Required: Uber Geeks!



## Jacker (Jan 30, 2008)

Hey Everyone!

Well its that time again and i need to get myself a new Rig (computer to you and me n00bs). I have had a look around and done some reading up and come up with the following spec but wanted to let you guys rip it apart and see what you think, or what i could change/improve:

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Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 "LGA775 Conroe" 3.00GHz (1333FSB)
Asus P5N-T Deluxe nForce 780i (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKS)
Linksys WMP54G 54Mbps Wireless Desktop PCI Network Adapter
	LG GSA-H66NBAL 18x DVDÂ±RW SATA Dual Layer ReWriter (Black) - OEM
OCZ 4GB (4x1GB) PC2-8500C5 1066MHz SLI-Ready Edition Dual Channel DDR2 (OCZ2N1066SR2GK) 
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (3.5g)
Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler (Socket 478/754/939/940/AM2/LGA775)
Coolermaster RC-1000 Cosmos Full Tower Case / Coolermaster Real Power 1000w Modular Power Supply - Bundle
2 x BFG GeForce 8800 GTS OC 512MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail
Western Digital Raptor X 150GB 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (WD1500AHFD)
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So if you don't mind have a sniff and see what you think, anyone who helps out will be entitled to one free marshmallow and/or one free cookie! Uber nice people get a super-petting!  

Cheeers,

Jackers!


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## Ceceil Felias (Jan 30, 2008)

I gave it a quick glance over, and I don't really see anything out of place at all. I'm not going to bother doing direct checks on the items to ensure compatibility, though, as I'm not really up to bothering with that.

A pretty reliable PCI-Express 1x wireless card was made by Abit, though I don't think Newegg stocks it anymore, to be honest. :/ Either way, it works quite well for me. It actually makes that 1x slot useful.

Also, good choice on OCZ. I've always liked that brand.


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## Jacker (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks for the comment Ceceil, much appreciated 

So do i owe you a cookie, marshmallow or a petting?


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## net-cat (Jan 30, 2008)

Processor: Core 2 architecture is good. (Have you looked into Core 2 Quad? It's probably not needed, but they're pretty cheap now.)

Motherboard: Ugh. nForce. As long as you plan to stick with Windows, that's fine. If you plan to play around with Linux, go with an Intel chipset. (And I guess you need it or SLI doesn't work...)

Memory: I haven't priced it out recently, but it might be cheaper to go with 2x2GB instead of 4x1GB. Even if it isn't, it gives you an upgrade path later, if you need it.

Thermal Compound: Not strictly necessary unless you plan on overclocking. (The stuff that comes on the 775 heatsink assembly is fine.)


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## Jacker (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks Net-Cat, can i just say...awesome signature XD

Processor: I had a look at the QuadCore ones...but from what i was "told" unless you have applications configured to utilise it then it doesnt give you much more of an advantage. Then again they could of been talking crap.

Motherboard: Yeah i plan to use linux and windows in dual-boot. However the memory i have in the spec has been given some rave reviews and works best with "nForce" whether this is just a marketing ploy or not im not sure, maybe someone can shed a little more light on this for me? Also will SLi work without nForce or can someone recommend me a decent motherboard? 

Memory: Again yeah i have looked into the old memory side of things, and ideally i would go for 2x2Gb but they don't seem to do this type in 2Gb batches 

Thermal Compound: Lets strip that off the list then! I cant over clock, i don't know how and i don't intend to incase i blows all my stuff up heh.

Keep the comments rolling in everyone, the help is really appreciated 

Cheers,

Jackers


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## yak (Jan 30, 2008)

Things i personally would correct, if it was me buying.

1kW PSU is an overkill. 600W should be enough.
2x2G RAM is better. mobo probably has only 4 slots, and you'd use them all your 4x1 way.
X on Raptors is an overkill, unless you're one of those types that can't wait three seconds more for a game to load. I'd prefer several 500G driver in mirroring RAID as an archive.
500G HDD --> take the server version, with extra durability. ABYS instead of AAKS. It's also the raid version.
LG writers are known for not being quality enough, and i have a personal bad experience with them. NEC perhaps.
SLI is way overrated, and doesn't even give you 15% performance boost. Get a single but more powerful card instead. Also, i'd suggest ATI. The new model line looks interesting, with their unified shaders and stuff. Also, ATI delivers more powerful hardware and better AA/AF quality. Waiting on better drivers for it to totally become better then Nvidia.
Extra cooling options.... i don't think they will be necessary. Unless you plan to seriously overclock, which i find totally useless since your hardware will be powerful enough without it. Just make sure the insides of your case are properly ventilated.  Don't rely on your rig to be quiet - it will be loud as a vacuum cleaner anyway.
Motherboard... i duno.. Just make sure it has proper coolers on both the north and the south bridges, with heatpipes and stuff like that - oh, and made exclusively on solid state capacitors. I am satisfied with my MSI P5B-Deluxe (i know, msi prodices crap usually - but this board seems to be an exception).


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## net-cat (Jan 30, 2008)

On Quad Core, I suppose that's just the fact that I do more VMWare and number crunching than gaming. So it makes sense for me. I can't speak to how well it does or doesn't work for games. I'd imagine that some applications that would be great on dual core/processor wouldn't scale well.

On nForce: SLi will not work without nForce. (Not in any capacity that's supported by nVidia, anyway.) Unfortunately, nVidia takes a "meh whatever" stance on Linux support.

Video card drivers work. (Don't know about SLi.)
nForce SATA will work in AHCI mode but not RAID mode.
nVidia core logic will work.
nVidia network adapters run from "works flawlessly" to "causes kernel panics." Depends on the SB revision.

Memory: Oh, this is 1066 MHz. No wonder. *has 800 MHz in his system*


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## Jacker (Jan 30, 2008)

net-cat said:
			
		

> On Quad Core, I suppose that's just the fact that I do more VMWare and number crunching than gaming. So it makes sense for me. I can't speak to how well it does or doesn't work for games. I'd imagine that some applications that would be great on dual core/processor wouldn't scale well.
> 
> On nForce: SLi will not work without nForce. (Not in any capacity that's supported by nVidia, anyway.) Unfortunately, nVidia takes a "meh whatever" stance on Linux support.
> 
> ...



Thanks again Net-Cat and Yak!

_Yak:_
*1kW PSU is an overkill. 600W should be enough.*
I agree with you here, however the PSU and the case came as a bundle on a discount rate, so its cheaper to take it with the higher PSU. Still think i would be better swapping it out?

*2x2G RAM is better. mobo probably has only 4 slots, and you'd use them all your 4x1 way.*
What kind of RAM would you recommend in this instance? The SLi stuff i have got some rave reviews. Unless you can recommend anything better?

*LG writers are known for not being quality enough, and i have a personal bad experience with them. NEC perhaps.
*
Ah right, i didn't know this! I will swap out with something better 

*SLI is way overrated, and doesn't even give you 15% performance boost. Get a single but more powerful card instead. Also, i'd suggest ATI. The new model line looks interesting, with their unified shaders and stuff. Also, ATI delivers more powerful hardware and better AA/AF quality. Waiting on better drivers for it to totally become better then Nvidia.*
Yeah i heard the same too, but i run a dual-screen setup as i do allot of multitasking so i figured having a Graphics card setup for each would be more reliable and deliver better performance than one single card. However i am more than open to your thoughts on this? 

_Net-Cat:_

So how does linux handle SLi, if at all? I currently have an ATi Graphics card and it plays hell with linux and some of my games too. So this time around i am flipping back to nVidia as its a little more widely supported across windows and linux from what i can see. 

Thanks for the comments on this, ive learnt allot more from you guys in the past few hours than i have in 2 weeks looking into it myself. So i owe you both beers 

Cheers,

Jackers


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## net-cat (Jan 30, 2008)

As I said, I'm not sure if Linux does SLi or not. (I also prefer ATi, but that's just because I've never owned a nVidia product that didn't have something go catastrophically wrong.) Thing is, you're not going to get great Linux support from either ATi or nVidia. Older cards tend to work fine in Linux, but the cutting edge often fails miserably. In any case, you'll definitely want to track down the proprietary drivers for either company. The open source drivers are a joke.

Example: Ubuntu works almost great* with the Radeon X1400 in my laptop and the GeForce FX5200 in my computer at work, but chokes on the Radeon HD 2600 in my desktop.

[size=xx-small]* For some reason, either Ubuntu or ATi thinks that the acceptable default behavior for disconnecting power is to turn off the screen's backlight. I have not found any way to change this. Other than that...[/size]


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## yak (Jan 30, 2008)

net-cat said:
			
		

> On Quad Core, I suppose that's just the fact that I do more VMWare and number crunching than gaming. So it makes sense for me. I can't speak to how well it does or doesn't work for games. I'd imagine that some applications that would be great on dual core/processor wouldn't scale well.


At this moment there aren't as many applications even that make proper use of two physical CPUs, much less the games. Most of the time, a game would run on a single core alone. Only newer games that were released like, half a year ago can probably utilize that extra processing power. 

But again, writing games to utilize more then one core requires a whole different approach, threading and scheduling tasks on different cores, making sure the game handles latency well and keeps things syncronised, etc... In other words, the development process significantly differs from single core programming. It gets so complex that it would be a major pain to release a game that would both run on a single and dual/quad cores at the same time. So i'd expect a lot of games in the future that would simply no longer run on a single core alone.

Applications, however, will soon all be supporting several physical cores, so that extra power will go to their benefit.



			
				Jacker said:
			
		

> *1kW PSU is an overkill. 600W should be enough.*
> I agree with you here, however the PSU and the case came as a bundle on a discount rate, so its cheaper to take it with the higher PSU. Still think i would be better swapping it out?


Depending on the manufacturer of said PSU. But regardless,  more power = more heat. But if the PSU is on the level, you can leave it i guess. Less money to spend.




			
				Jacker said:
			
		

> *2x2G RAM is better. mobo probably has only 4 slots, and you'd use them all your 4x1 way.*
> What kind of RAM would you recommend in this instance? The SLi stuff i have got some rave reviews. Unless you can recommend anything better?


Honestly, it doesn't matter. 
All that 'speed boost sli' stuff is bullshit to rape you people for money. All you really need is the amount of memory, and speed doesn't really matter that much. Your system will not be able to utilize that anyway, CPU clocks not fast enough.  With quad core, however, RAM speed can make a visible difference - but _really_, i see absolutely no application that would need supercomputing powers for it to run. 

You'd be just fine with 800, or even 633Mhz RAM, if you had enough of it. 2Gig is today's 'norm', and unless you plan to use a 64bit OS (read - 64 bit vista, or linux), anything above 2G will not be accessible anyway.

You don't need all those 'hyper' memory modules with super fast clocks and increased voltages, all that alienware corsair overclocker edition crap, you just need RAM that will not burn, which means you're free to choose from 95% of all RAM market except for well known crap brands like PQI and the rest. IF you insist, get moemry modules with heatsinks.



			
				Jacker said:
			
		

> *SLI is way overrated, and doesn't even give you 15% performance boost. Get a single but more powerful card instead. Also, i'd suggest ATI. The new model line looks interesting, with their unified shaders and stuff. Also, ATI delivers more powerful hardware and better AA/AF quality. Waiting on better drivers for it to totally become better then Nvidia.*
> Yeah i heard the same too, but i run a dual-screen setup as i do allot of multitasking so i figured having a Graphics card setup for each would be more reliable and deliver better performance than one single card. However i am more than open to your thoughts on this?


Pretty much all ATI cards come with dual DVI output, so you're all set for two monitor display out of the box. 
You wouldn't be multitasking much when you're shooting people's heads off in some sort of FPS, and that is the only place where 'better performance' matters. In all other cases, even the lower end dual video output cards provide sufficient twin monitor display. Desktop stuff i's 2D anyway, and 2D is super fast even on RivaTNT2.

SLI is the biggest money waster of all time, really. Sink that extra cash in a single more powerful card, or get some extra storage space, or something. Less heat, and less power consumption too.


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## Ron Overdrive (Jan 30, 2008)

Net-Cat: We've had SLi support in Linux since the 96.xx drivers, but support didn't improve until 100.14. From my understanding its improved a bit in 169.07, but the linux support for SLi is still lagging behind its windows counterpart by a year or so. Also currently the Linux ATI drivers are better then the Vista drivers from what I've heard, though I dunno if thats changed at all recently. Nvidia is also getting ready to do some kind of open source initiative with Linux soon to counter ATI's OSS drivers.


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## Ceceil Felias (Jan 31, 2008)

Jacker said:
			
		

> *SLI is way overrated, and doesn't even give you 15% performance boost. Get a single but more powerful card instead. Also, i'd suggest ATI. The new model line looks interesting, with their unified shaders and stuff. Also, ATI delivers more powerful hardware and better AA/AF quality. Waiting on better drivers for it to totally become better then Nvidia.*
> Yeah i heard the same too, but i run a dual-screen setup as i do allot of multitasking so i figured having a Graphics card setup for each would be more reliable and deliver better performance than one single card. However i am more than open to your thoughts on this?
> 
> Cheers,
> ...


This is where I get concerned. Truth be told, SLI for the most part does not work with dual monitors (I've heard the occasional claim that it works on XP, but reading up on it says otherwise without major workarounds). I'd advise getting a single better card in this case, but you've pretty much got what's good enough.

You could still theoretically do dual monitors with both cards, it's just that you'd have to switch in out of SLI mode depending on whether you're gaming or not, and switching into it requires a reboot. At this point, it's your choice whether you want to deal with the hassle or not. I haven't even run an SLI configuration myself, so I can't say what the improvements are, but usually it depends on what game you're running in the first place.

I also personally prefer nVidia over ATI, myself, but in your case it's a matter of your own personal preferences, so I won't get started on that.


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## Jacker (Jan 31, 2008)

Guys i cant thank you all enough for the help on this! I *really, really* appreciate it, seriously!! 

I have taken on-board some of your comments and amended my specification slightly (amendments in bold by the way), below is what i have so far. I still think we could do with swapping the Motherboard and Memory out, but im not sure what with...so again  throw in your comments 


Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 "LGA775 Conroe" 3.00GHz (1333FSB) - Retail
	Asus P5N-T Deluxe nForce 780i (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
OCZ 4GB (4x1GB) PC2-8500C5 1066MHz SLI-Ready Edition Dual Channel DDR2 (OCZ2N1066SR2GK)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKS)
	Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler (Socket 478/754/939/940/AM2/LGA775)
Western Digital Raptor X 150GB 10000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - OEM (WD1500AHFD)
*[*]	BFG GeForce 8800 Ultra OC 768MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail*
*[*]OcUK Ageia PhysX Accelerator - OEM
[*]Coolermaster RC-1000 Cosmos Full Tower Case*
*OCZ StealthXStream 600w Silent SLI Ready ATX2 Power Supply*

Hard Drives:
I opted to keep the WD Raptor and the WD 500Gb as i don't require too much storage, i currently have a 250Gb HDD and im only using 100Gb of it. So i figured investing that cash into a Faster drive for the OS`s to boot off and then use the 500Gb for my general storage stuffs might be a better solution? 

Processor:
After reading your comments it became apparent that moving to a quad-core wouldn't offer me a huge advantage so to keep the cost down and make the most of what i have this made a little more sense. However if your thinking im talking crap with any of this, just say 

Graphics Card:
Again after your comments i had a Dig around and the BFG was getting some awesome results, so i just took out the dual 512 and whacked in a single 768 one. Think that will be aright guys? Im also going to stick with nVidia simply due to the nightmare issues i have had with ATi over the past few years, its been like banging my head against a brick wall sometimes  

To the Linux experts:
Does anyone know if the nForce chip set works well with linux or will i end up running into a mountain of issues?

Again if you have any questions, or your looking at some of these components and going "WTF!?" Then say!! 

Cheers,

Jackers


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## net-cat (Jan 31, 2008)

Jacker said:
			
		

> Yeah i heard the same too, but i run a dual-screen setup as i do allot of multitasking so i figured having a Graphics card setup for each would be more reliable and deliver better performance than one single card. However i am more than open to your thoughts on this?


Oh, I missed this. This is actually fairly critical. You definitely don't want SLI for that. There is wisdom in getting two video cards, though. Especially with nVidia GPUs, as they have a tendency to not have proper dual monitor support. I've experienced this on several cards from both the 6000 and 7000 series, but the only dual monitor mode supported on the nVidia GPUs I've used is where both monitors are treated as one logical monitor. (That is, task bar is stretched across both screens, maximized windows maximize to both screens and setting the monitors to different resolutions is not supported.) I've been told this isn't the case with the 8800 series, but quite frankly, I've had so much trouble with nVidia stuff that I haven't bothered to try. (ATI cards, on the other hand, support dual monitors just fine.)

Memory Suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227195

Linux/nForce: With the possible exception of network issues which can be solved by not using the on-board network ports, you'll be fine as long as you're not trying to do RAID. Of course, if you're not doing SLI, there's no reason to not go with an Intel-based board...


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## yak (Jan 31, 2008)

Looks alright.
Get a system fan in case the tower case of yours doesn't have it built in already.

[edit] What net-case said, about intel board.


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## Jacker (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks again guys!

So for the graphics cards, would i be better with the one i have now...or 2 512 cards which aren't in SLi?

Cheers!

Jackers ^_^


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## yak (Jan 31, 2008)

Let me tell you. You are never, ever ever ever, except for maybe one time, are going to use four monitors instead of one or two. Thus, you will never really use a second video card, even in games (because it's a non-sli). I mean, holy crap, you got the beefiest video card, and with a standalone physics card already - what more do you want? They wouldn't be making games that would challenge this kind of setup for a few more years in the future.
If you really want to get fancy, sink that money in a good monitor.


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## Jacker (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks Yak!

Clears up allot of concerns i had, allot of people told me that because i had the dual screen setup i would be best with 2 separate cards but looks like that was a load of crap!

Soon as i place my order and get the kit (next week after i get back from a business trip) i will let you guys know how it went and whats its like! 

Still open for the linux experts to have a poke to see what issues they can see compatibility wise? 

Cheers,

Jacker


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## Ceceil Felias (Jan 31, 2008)

yak said:
			
		

> Let me tell you. You are never, ever ever ever, except for maybe one time, are going to use four monitors instead of one or two. Thus, you will never really use a second video card, even in games (because it's a non-sli). I mean, holy crap, you got the beefiest video card, and with a standalone physics card already - what more do you want? They wouldn't be making games that would challenge this kind of setup for a few more years in the future.
> If you really want to get fancy, sink that money in a good monitor.


Except for Crysis!

Also, if you do feel the need to have more than two monitors, a much cheaper (8400?) video card would suit the extra needs just fine. Not to mention, in regards to the nVidia/multimonitor issue, I've never had a problem with that. My system runs with two physical monitors being seen as two logical monitors, and I have an 8500 with questionable functionality (no surprise there, it's a Winfast). Though, then again, 8-series n' all. I never really had a chance to deal with a 6 or 7 series card (aside from a 6100 onboard), since I was running off 2001-grade parts up until two years ago and only aactually had decent parts for six months so far.

But amusingly enough, each experience I've had with ATI has left me bitter, including cases where the settings stopped changing and left me stuck with some really shoddy settings, even with the latest stable drivers. And don't get me started on how I had to manually add an extra fan onto the card to keep it from overheating...

But this is teetering too close to the edge of degenerating into a video card war, so I'm shutting up! :x Either way, yeah. The setup looks good, though I'd be a little worried about just 600W with all that hardware. I recommend a 650 just to be safe.


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## FF_CCSa1F (Feb 2, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend getting the Ultra right about now, since it's extremely overpriced for the performance and energy efficiency that the G80 cores give. The G92 GTS (That you had two of) are almost as fast as the GTX' and Ultras. If you wanna get an Ultra, wait until nVidia revise it to G92. It'll be cheaper, cooler and faster. THe 8800GTX/Ultras are really bad buys for the moment.


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## Tudd (Feb 3, 2008)

Before you make any decisions on the video card. Take a look at this and this. 

The 8800GT seems the best way to go unless you're willing to pay that much extra for that ammount performance. That is if you're looking for an nVidia card.


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## Jacker (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks guys for still helping on this!

Looking at what Tudd wrote, i might be better with the 2 x Nvidia 8800GT`s....can any linux gurus comment on how this might function under linux?

Thanks,

Jackers


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## Ceceil Felias (Feb 3, 2008)

I have a friend with two 8800GTXes, which he used to run Linux on before he moved it to his laptop and installed XP x64 for gaming.

I'll go and ask him.

EDIT: From the source!

<Thomas`> Ubuntu has trouble, Sabayon is specifically designed to take advantage of high-end systems, but is based on Gentoo, with all the difficulty therein.
<Ceceil> Gentoo's the one that requires compiling everything, right?
<Thomas`> Yeah.
<Thomas`> Although emerge is very easy to use, it's easy to shoot yourself in the foot.
<Ceceil> How so?
<Thomas`> And Sabayon takes the headache out of actually installing.
<Thomas`> It doesn't warn you about dependencies, so you can easily remove python and leave yourself SOL (emerge is a Python script).


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## indrora (Feb 4, 2008)

I dont know the full thread, but i'll give you my personal view on linux and getting it running.

There is a project called DebSrc - its a debian disk with a bootstrapper. it proceeds to ask you what you want to install and then downloads the sources for those and compiles for your machine. apt is nice for that sort of Package management.

if you want pure put-it-in-and-it-just-works, Suse's SLED (Suse Linux Enterprize Desktop) is a free download last i checked. Suse 10.3 is nice too. its free also. if you dont mind a little hassle (or a lot of hassle and an older kernel) Damn Small Linux is a nice place to go. it runs a light foot and has a lot of power if you're familiar with linux. 

as for video cards, one is good unless you're doing SLI.

if you want a kickass dual graphics card pair and a physics processor, and can afford it, go ahead. dont look for open (or even closed :cry: ) source drivers for linux on those though: they're simply too new. 

again, i havent read the whole thread (i dont _do_ hardware), but a system with power is only as powerful as the software above it lets it be.

(read!) the NVidia drivers for linux (i'm using them now) are nice and smooth, however you're not getting source for them. Ubuntu makes installing them simple with the restricted drivers checker.

Personally, for this and linux, it looks all cool. All I can say is this is either going to be a graphics mongering machine using say the GIMP or a gaming machine where you're going to be running under WineX or a VM (such as Bochs or QEMU)


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## Jacker (Feb 5, 2008)

Guys i really cannot thank you enough for the help on this, you have all been pure-awesome! 

So just to summarize, for linux i am best getting the single graphics card that way i can utilize it in both windows and a linux environment?

Cheers,

Jacker


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## indrora (Feb 5, 2008)

you're gonna want to look at the drivers for both. nVidia is extremely well supported under linux with their drivers, but beware: some of the distros will not let you run the userspace nvidia drivers.

as for distros, i'd go with ubuntu


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