# Transgenders of FAF



## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

So, I'm slowly noticing more and more transpeople on FAF. So, I figured why not make a trans thread?

I'm a FtM, pre-everything. I'm currently in therapy to start HRT in the near future.

I figure we can make this a support thread as well as an educational one, basically help everyone. Suggestions, resources, coming out, etc.


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

A lot of the time I feel like I'm both but only have one body.


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I've always been a tomboy of sorts; I despise make-up, dresses, showing cleavage, high heels, etc. All my "feminine" clothes are on the line to be handed down to my younger cousins because I don't want them. I just feel like I identify more as a boy, so ever since I was in my elementary years, I asked people to call me by a more boyish nickname.

That's probably why I changed my name to "Gaz". I don't like people knowing I'm a girl, though I don't feel that I would go as far as change my gender (though I have nothing but respect for those that are willing to do so).

EDIT: What is "Genderqueer" and "Gender fluid", by the way?


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## Volkodav (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

What in the flying made-up fuck is "nongendered"
Some sort of seaslug/snail-esque beast?


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Clayton said:


> What in the flying made-up fuck is "nongendered"
> Some sort of seaslug/snail-esque beast?


 Androgyny.


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## Willow (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I'm gender neutral or something. If that counts...

Isn't there a group for this though?


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Willow said:


> I'm gender neutral or something. If that counts...
> 
> Isn't there a group for this though?


 
That's probably more "Non-gendered" or Androgyny, as Aleu said.


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## Fay V (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

What does Gender queer mean? 

I'm a tomboy pretty much. I do "boy" things, but I do like feeling girly once in a blue moon...


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> EDIT: What is "Genderqueer" and "Gender fluid", by the way?


 Genderqueer identifies as something other than man or woman or neither. It's really complicated.


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> Genderqueer identifies as something other than man or woman or neither. It's really complicated.


 
Ah. I see. And "Gender fluid" is when someone identifies with both, correct?


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## Willow (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> That's probably more "Non-gendered" or Androgyny, as Aleu said.


 Androgyny sounds about right.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Willow said:


> I'm gender neutral or something. If that counts...
> 
> Isn't there a group for this though?


 The group is deader than Billy Mays.


MTF here, I really wish I could full time, but I still speak like a guy.  If anyone knows where I can find help it or something tell me.  I've found voice training tutorials, but they're too expensive.  Also I'm in a dorm, I have my own room, but there's three other guys in the apartment; what can I do to practice?


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> MTF here, I really wish I could full time, but I still speak like a guy.


 
What do you mean "speak like a guy"? Like the pitch of your voice?


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> Ah. I see. And "Gender fluid" is when someone identifies with both, correct?


 Yeah. That's what urban dictionary says anyway :V
Makes sense though. There's a lot of times I don't want to be a girl then there's times I'm glad.


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> Yeah. That's what urban dictionary says anyway :V
> Makes sense though. There's a lot of times I don't want to be a girl then there's times I'm glad.


 
Same here; sometimes, I feel like wearing high heels and a cute skirt. Other days, I want to go with big jeans and a comfy, ratty tee. Most of my days lean toward guy clothes, however.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> What do you mean "speak like a guy"? Like the pitch of your voice?


 It's not that simple.


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## Bloodshot_Eyes (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

In my head I'm a balance of both... physically I'm much more male... It's distressing... >_<


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## Alfeo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> Ah. I see. And "Gender fluid" is when someone identifies with both, correct?


 
The keyword here is fluid. Never feeling like either extreme permanently, moving from male to female and back again, and sometimes a mixture of both.


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> Same here; sometimes, I feel like wearing high heels and a cute skirt. Other days, I want to go with big jeans and a comfy, ratty tee. Most of my days lean toward guy clothes, however.


 Man I can't STAND high heels but I like skorts and showing off what little chest I have.
Most of the time, my appearance is anime shirt/sports shirt, pants, jacket. No matter how warm it is, I will always wear a jacket.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

To do some clarifying:
People who identify as genderqueer may think of themselves as being both  man and woman, as being neither man nor woman, or as falling completely  outside the gender binary.
Nongender identify as genderless or agender.
Gender fluid means your gender identity is subject to change. Some days you feel female and other days you feel male.

I should have probably included androgynous which is just a mix of both.

Gender itself is such a relative term it is really hard to put it into categories. It's a spectrum.


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## Willow (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> Same here; sometimes, I feel like wearing high heels and a cute skirt. Other days, I want to go with big jeans and a comfy, ratty tee. Most of my days lean toward guy clothes, however.


 I feel really uncomfortable wearing anything considered girly, or almost anything. But yea, sometimes it's nice being a chick I guess.


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I like how there's one vote for everything except non-gendered.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> I like how there's one vote for everything except non-gendered.


 It's cause transgender is extremely diverse, it's not just mtf or ftm.
It won't surprise me if non-gendered gets a vote also.


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> Man I can't STAND high heels but I like skorts and showing off what little chest I have.
> Most  of the time, my appearance is anime shirt/sports shirt, pants, jacket.  No matter how warm it is, I will always wear a jacket.


 
I wear high heels to make my tallness even more apparent. 5'9 1/2", bitch. :V



Willow said:


> I feel really uncomfortable wearing anything considered girly, or almost anything. But yea, sometimes it's nice being a chick I guess.


 On rare occasions, yes.


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> I wear high heels to make my tallness even more apparent. 5'9 1/2", bitch. :V.


 I'm like...5'3" :<


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## Icky (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I am specifying my "Other" vote.

I are a man.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> It's cause transgender is extremely diverse, it's not just mtf or ftm.
> It won't surprise me if non-gendered gets a vote also.


 I love how diverse it is. It just shows how wrong the idea of male/female being the only two genders really is.



AleutheWolf said:


> I'm like...5'3" :<


 I'm 5'1.

Fffffff.


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## Willow (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> I'm 5'1.
> 
> Fffffff.


 I'm 4' 11" 

:c


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Willow said:


> I'm 4' 11"
> 
> :c


 Lucky :c
5'10"


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Lucky :c
> 5'10"


 
I'm like the tallest (biological) girl so far.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I don't want to be tall... I mean like, 5'5" would be amazing.

Then again I grew up with female friends who are like: ....5'10-6'


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## Alfeo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Hot damn there are some short people in here. 5'7" here.


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## Willow (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Lucky :c
> 5'10"


 I wouldn't call this being lucky. 

I can't reach anything.


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> I don't want to be tall... I mean like, 5'5" would be amazing.
> 
> Then again I grew up with female friends who are like: ....5'10-6'


 
...What are they feeding you girls where you live? I'm like the tallest girl in my entire school.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

ITT:
HOW TALL ARE YOU NONGENDER BINARY PEOPLE!? Lmao.
Can we try to keep this on topic, some what? I don't want this locked.



Gaz said:


> ...What are they feeding you girls where you live? I'm like the tallest girl in my entire school.


 I'm from New Jersey. Radiation I would assume.


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## Monster. (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> ITT:
> HOW TALL ARE YOU NONGENDER BINARY PEOPLE!? Lmao.
> Can we try to keep this on topic, some what? I don't want this locked.


 
Oh, right. Sorry.
Er. Back on topic, I probably should have gone with "Gender fluid" as I have my days where I thank nature for boobs and then hate them later on.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> ITT:
> HOW TALL ARE YOU NONGENDER BINARY PEOPLE!? Lmao.
> Can we try to keep this on topic, some what? I don't want this locked.



 Okay, what sucks is the last relationship I had he found herms hot, I knew it was going to fail cause if someone likes you cause of your fetish that's a bad sign.  I tried to make it work, but no avail, I don't feel like logging on my chat or that cause I know he's going to want to chat.

I hope to start hormones and that when I graduate though, fortunately my job I'm planning on getting is fairly well paid; not to mention I'm cheap financially.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Okay, what sucks is the last relationship I had he found herms hot, I knew it was going to fail cause if someone likes you cause of your fetish that's a bad sign.  I tried to make it work, but no avail, I don't feel like logging on my chat or that cause I know he's going to want to chat.
> 
> I hope to start hormones and that when I graduate though, fortunately my job I'm planning on getting is fairly well paid; not to mention I'm cheap financially.


 You can find a lot of places that will help with therapy and such for cheap. I pay $20 for each session with my therapist for right now due to my circumstances. I know there are places that will work with getting you hormones for cheap too. You'd be surprised at what you can find if you look, despite you being in Texas.

I find traps and such hot. Would I date someone for the sole purpose of them being the embodiment of a fetish? No. Honestly, I think that is just so messed up. You love someone for who they are, entirely not because they fit something you find attractive. My boyfriend happens to be androgynous and a cross-dresser, both things I find very much a turn-on but I'm not dating him for those reasons.

I just don't understand dating someone based solely on looks. A relationship to me is just so much more than that. Even just sleeping with someone for the sake of sleeping with someone requires a lot of trust for me. I mean, I can understand that for the sake of that. Get off to get off but, I don't think I could ever look at someone and truly even just mess around with them without knowing them at least a little first. I don't know if it is my trust issues or what...


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> You can find a lot of places that will help with therapy and such for cheap. I pay $20 for each session with my therapist for right now due to my circumstances. I know there are places that will work with getting you hormones for cheap too. You'd be surprised at what you can find if you look, despite you being in Texas.
> 
> I find traps and such hot. Would I date someone for the sole purpose of them being the embodiment of a fetish? No. Honestly, I think that is just so messed up. You love someone for who they are, entirely not because they fit something you find attractive. My boyfriend happens to be androgynous and a cross-dresser, both things I find very much a turn-on but I'm not dating him for those reasons.
> 
> I just don't understand dating someone based solely on looks. A relationship to me is just so much more than that. Even just sleeping with someone for the sake of sleeping with someone requires a lot of trust for me. I mean, I can understand that for the sake of that. Get off to get off but, I don't think I could ever look at someone and truly even just mess around with them without knowing them at least a little first. I don't know if it is my trust issues or what...


 Problem is I'm in the literal geographic location of nowhere and I kinda cussed out the only place hiring right now... The employee they had on staff was completely mentally inept so I called their boss, who took the inept employee's side.

What I want to know is where can I get voice therapy or the stuff for it?


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Problem is I'm in the literal geographic location of nowhere and I kinda cussed out the only place hiring right now... The employee they had on staff was completely mentally inept so I called their boss, who took the inept employee's side.
> 
> What I want to know is where can I get voice therapy or the stuff for it?


 I am sure you can find stuff on youtube. It won't be with an actual vocal coach but it is better than nothing.


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## Alfeo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> What I want to know is where can I get voice therapy or the stuff for it?



I strongly suggest you go to Susan's Place with your questions since the community there is so large.


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## Ratte (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Generally FtM.  Pretty much the complete opposite of how my mother raised me.


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## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Okay, what do you call it when you're a guy and you like being a guy, but you fantasize about being a girl and if a lightning bolt hit you and it turned you into a girl, you wouldn't mind one bit? Because that's me.

In reality, the only way I would actually consider changing my sex is a) if it was the only way I could become an anthro panther or b) if I had some kind of freak accident where my dick was chopped off and nobody could retrieve it.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> I am sure you can find stuff on youtube. It won't be with an actual vocal coach but it is better than nothing.


 Well how can I practice though, cause I'm in a four bedroom apartment.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Ratte said:


> Generally FtM.  Pretty much the complete opposite of how my mother raised me.


 My mom never tried to force me to be girly. She let me join the wrestling team and all that. I'm still a rather girly faggot but, I used to FLIP OUT when I was younger if I had to wear a dress and such. My mom used to do my hair for school and I would get on the bus, look at her, and then rip whatever she had put in my hair out.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



RayO_ElGatubelo said:


> Okay, what do you call it when you're a guy and you like being a guy, but you fantasize about being a girl and if a lightning bolt hit you and it turned you into a girl, you wouldn't mind one bit? Because that's me.
> 
> In reality, the only way I would actually consider changing my sex is a) if it was the only way I could become an anthro panther or b) if I had some kind of freak accident where my dick was chopped off and nobody could retrieve it.


 Removing your dick doesn't mean you're no longer a male. I hate that mentality. If you are male and IDENTIFY as such, having/not having a dick doesn't matter.

I would call that more gender neutral.



CannonFodder said:


> Well how can I practice though, cause I'm in a four bedroom apartment.


 Hrrrmmm... Dunno about that since I didn't really know about your living conditions. You could always wait until your roomies are gone. Is there a GLBT center near you? I know you mentioned the GSA.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Removing your dick doesn't mean you're no longer a male. I hate that mentality. If you are male and IDENTIFY as such, having/not having a dick doesn't matter.
> 
> I would call that more gender neutral.
> 
> ...


 The GSA group hasn't started up yet, they're running into a problem with a group of people trying to stonewall it by ripping down all the posters and that for it.  Nothing violent they're just trying to keep the gsa from starting.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> The GSA group hasn't started up yet, they're running into a problem with a group of people trying to stonewall it by ripping down all the posters and that for it.  Nothing violent they're just trying to keep the gsa from starting.


 Ick... I'm sorry to hear that. I'm not that knowledgeable about MtF resources so I am sure there is someone else who can answer your questions better than I can...


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## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Removing your dick doesn't mean you're no longer a male. I hate that mentality. If you are male and IDENTIFY as such, having/not having a dick doesn't matter.



I know that. That's why I would try to turn it into a pussy. Anything's better than walking around dickless.

I'm obsessive compulsive when it comes to things like this. If I was MTF, I think part of me wouldn't be satisfied with the change until my Y chromosomes are genetically engineered into X chromosomes.

Although nowadays, sex-reassignment surgery is really good. I mean, I've heard MTFs even develop the female voice from hormones and have clitoris orgasms.


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## Ratte (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> My mom never tried to force me to be girly. She let me join the wrestling team and all that. I'm still a rather girly faggot but, I used to FLIP OUT when I was younger if I had to wear a dress and such. My mom used to do my hair for school and I would get on the bus, look at her, and then rip whatever she had put in my hair out.


 
My mom tried to make me girly.  Dresses, skirts, dolls, you name it.  Every day until I was about 14 she picked out my clothes.  She hated how I wore "masculine" clothing and how my clothes didn't match.  Mom I'm 14 I don't give two shits about fashion.

Also, shaving.  She forbid me from wearing shorts because I refused to shave.  She wouldn't do that if I was a boy, but I got the "you're not a boy" bullshit until I moved out.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



RayO_ElGatubelo said:


> I know that. That's why I would try to turn it into a pussy. Anything's better than walking around dickless.
> 
> I'm obsessive compulsive when it comes to things like this. If I was MTF, I think part of me wouldn't be satisfied with the change until my Y chromosomes is genetically engineered into X chromosomes.
> 
> Although nowadays, sex-reassignment surgery is really good. I mean, I've heard MTFs even develop the female voice from hormones and have clitoris orgasms.


 Their voices don't change much do to hormones. That is generally manually. Also, they don't just GIVE you an SRS if you lose your penis. It requires YEARS of therapy, doctors letters, etc. etc. It just isn't something you walk in and can get.

SRS are decent for MtF, more so than FtM. Also, your terminology irks me.



Ratte said:


> My mom tried to make me girly.  Dresses, skirts,  dolls, you name it.  Every day until I was about 14 she picked out my  clothes.  She hated how I wore "masculine" clothing and how my clothes  didn't match.  Mom I'm 14 I don't give two shits about fashion.
> 
> Also, shaving.  She forbid me from wearing shorts because I refused to  shave.  She wouldn't do that if I was a boy, but I got the "you're not a  boy" bullshit until I moved out.


My mom kicked me out of the house for refusing to shave my legs. She stated it was 'unhygenic' and when I stated otherwise and refused, it turned into a small tussle and she kicked me out because she felt threatened by me. My mom is like.. 5'7 140lbs. I'm 5'1, 100lbs. Reeaal threatening. 

I only shave when I feel like it honestly. My leg hair gets to the point where it hurts so I buzz it. Other than that, I don't really shave when it comes to my legs/armpits.


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I don't shave either. It used to bug my mom and my dad (kinda) but I'd always wear pants. If I knew ahead of time then I'd shave my legs if I had to wear a dress. I like how my legs feel when they're shaved but I just don't like doing it.


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## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Their voices don't change much do to hormones. That is generally manually. Also, they don't just GIVE you an SRS if you lose your penis. It requires YEARS of therapy, doctors letters, etc. etc. It just isn't something you walk in and can get.



And I wouldn't need years of therapy after losing my happy place? Come on! I'd flip out if I became incapable of getting any. I'm not anal!

Stupid SRS surgeons...


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Also, your terminology irks me.


 I have a feeling he's confusing the fact he's pans with transgender.  I've seen this a fair bit, even within glbt circles.


RayO_ElGatubelo said:


> And I wouldn't need years of therapy  after losing my happy place? Come on! I'd flip out if I became incapable  of getting any. I'm not anal!
> 
> Stupid SRS surgeons...


 Sorry RayO, you're not trans.


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## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> I have a feeling he's confusing the fact he's pans with transgender.  I've seen this a fair bit, even within glbt circles.


 
I thought pansexual was being sexually attracted to male, female and everything in between. Most pans don't fantasize about actually _being_ another gender.

By the way, I do have a female version of my fursona. Her name is Mona. She's like my male fursona, same coloration and stuff. She usually wears a flower in her hair and paints her claws purple.


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## Alfeo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> I don't shave either. It used to bug my mom and my dad (kinda) but I'd always wear pants. If I knew ahead of time then I'd shave my legs if I had to wear a dress. I like how my legs feel when they're shaved but I just don't like doing it.


 
I don't understand this. I have never shaved my arms nor my legs in my entire life. Why would parents bug their children about shaving their legs? My mother only brought it up once and let the matter drop after I flatly refused.


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## Bloodshot_Eyes (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> I don't shave either. It used to bug my mom and my dad (kinda) but I'd always wear pants. If I knew ahead of time then I'd shave my legs if I had to wear a dress. *I like how my legs feel when they're shaved but I just don't like doing it.*


 
Far too time consuming... I mean... I could be doing nothing right now... :3

I wish it didn't take so much time... :/


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## Ratte (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> My mom kicked me out of the house for refusing to shave my legs. She stated it was 'unhygenic' and when I stated otherwise and refused, it turned into a small tussle and she kicked me out because she felt threatened by me. My mom is like.. 5'7 140lbs. I'm 5'1, 100lbs. Reeaal threatening.
> 
> I only shave when I feel like it honestly. My leg hair gets to the point where it hurts so I buzz it. Other than that, I don't really shave when it comes to my legs/armpits.


 
I got the "unhygienic" treatment too.  I looked up a bunch of shit she was using for an argument and it boiled down to "I don't like seeing it."  Cool, I don't like seeing you.  That doesn't mean I can cut you in two and rinse you down the shower drain.  :V


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



jaskiel said:


> I don't understand this. I have never shaved my arms nor my legs in my entire life. Why would parents bug their children about shaving their legs? My mother only brought it up once and let the matter drop after I flatly refused.


 Because some parents want their child to be the IDEAL child.


Bloodshot_Eyes said:


> Far too time consuming... I mean... I could be doing nothing right now... :3
> 
> I wish it didn't take so much time... :/



I usually did it while I showered...until I started knocking shit over because I can't see anything without my glasses.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Ratte said:


> I got the "unhygienic" treatment too.  I looked up a bunch of shit she was using for an argument and it boiled down to "I don't like seeing it."  Cool, I don't like seeing you.  That doesn't mean I can cut you in two and rinse you down the shower drain.  :V


 When I started shaving she kept saying it was gay, then after shoving that argument down her throat she gave me the, "what if other people think you're gay?".  To which I responded, "you do realize I wear pants and long socks all the time right?  The only way they could see that I shave is if they go, 'Take off your pants and lemme suck your cock!'"


AleutheWolf said:


> Because some parents want their child to be the IDEAL child.


When most parents say they want their kid to be happy they actually mean they want a fairly normal child.


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## Aleu (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> When most parents say they want their kid to be happy they actually mean they want a fairly normal child.


 My mom just said "Do what you think is best" but then bitched whenever I did something she didn't like that I thought was best :V


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## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> When I started shaving she kept saying it was gay, then after shoving that argument down her throat she gave me the, "what if other people think you're gay?".  To which I responded, "you do realize I wear pants and long socks all the time right?  The only way they could see that I shave is if they go, 'Take off your pants and lemme suck your cock!'"



Yeah, uh, I'd like to know how good you are at shaving... I mean, you know, I've been thinking about doing it. Gotta practice somehow... yeah.


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## Skittle (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Ratte said:


> I got the "unhygienic" treatment too.  I looked up a bunch of shit she was using for an argument and it boiled down to "I don't like seeing it."  Cool, I don't like seeing you.  That doesn't mean I can cut you in two and rinse you down the shower drain.  :V


 She kept throwing societal norms at me and I kept telling her it was a modern/American one, yah yah yah. It eventually turned into: YOU ARE WRONG! I AM YOUR MOTHER! DO AS I SAY!



CannonFodder said:


> When I started shaving she kept saying it  was gay, then after shoving that argument down her throat she gave me  the, "what if other people think you're gay?".  To which I responded,  "you do realize I wear pants and long socks all the time right?  The  only way they could see that I shave is if they go, 'Take off your pants  and lemme suck your cock!'"
> 
> *When most parents say they want their kid to be happy they actually mean they want a fairly normal child.*


 When my boyfriend came out a second time as pansexual his mom pulled the: Why can't I just have a normal life? crap.
She then proceeded to ask him if he liked guys why wasn't he dating a real one.

....I don't like his mom very much.



RayO_ElGatubelo said:


> Yeah, uh, I'd like to know how good you  are at shaving... I mean, you know, I've been thinking about doing it.  Gotta practice somehow... yeah.


 .....
We're talking about legs and gender stereotypes/norms.
Not talking about shaving our hoohaas.
If you wanna talk about that, please take it to PMs or google it.


----------



## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> .....
> We're talking about legs and gender stereotypes/norms.
> Not talking about shaving our hoohaas.
> If you wanna talk about that, please take it to PMs or google it.


 
I actually experience a lot more issues trying to shave my legs.


----------



## Ames (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Tomboys are so fucking hot and awesome.


----------



## Aleu (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



ElizabethAlexandraMary said:


> I actually experience a lot more issues trying to shave my legs.


 I always manage to cut myself SOMEWHERE and not notice until I'm drying off and there's a glob of blood on the floor.


----------



## Corto (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I have incredibly hairy legs. 

Also I'm male to slightly manlier male.


----------



## Aleu (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Corto said:


> I have incredibly hairy legs.
> 
> Also I'm male to slightly manlier male.


 Hairy legged males > shaved legged males.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

You know I'm surprised no one has come on this thread yet telling trans people to deal with it.
I am pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> You know I'm surprised no one has come on this thread yet telling trans people to deal with it.
> I am pleasantly surprised.


 Don't jinx it. PPLEEEAAASEE

inb4 Brazen

Also, thank you JamesB and Corto for your informative and insightful posts!


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

DEAL WITH IT TRANNYFAGS

Sorry.  He/she/whatever made me do it.  : D


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> DEAL WITH IT TRANNYFAGS
> 
> Sorry.  He/she/whatever made me do it.  : D


 Lmao. Ooohhh Nylak. <3


----------



## Aleu (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> DEAL WITH IT TRANNYFAGS
> 
> Sorry.  He/she/whatever made me do it.  : D


 Jokes on you, I'm not tranny and I DO deal with it :VVVV


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Lmao. Ooohhh Nylak. <3


 lol indeed
I think the reason why we haven't yet cause they'd be severely outnumbered, aka lynch mob.

Well I'll try and talk to the guy about the gsa group tomorrow, I have to head out that way anyhow.
So for practicing my voice what about asking someone else in the group if they could help me?  or a tleast provide a place where I can practice?


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> lol indeed
> I think the reason why we haven't yet cause they'd be severely outnumbered, aka lynch mob.
> 
> Well I'll try and talk to the guy about the gsa group tomorrow, I have to head out that way anyhow.
> So for practicing my voice what about asking someone else in the group if they could help me?  or a tleast provide a place where I can practice?


 You can look into that. I know there are a TON of resources online but sometimes it is better to find someone in person who knows the area to help.



Also, anyone else surprised we have currently 3 votes for FtM and 1 for MtF? MtFs statistically outnumber FtM 2:1. Hrrmm... Curious.


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Also, anyone else surprised we have currently 3 votes for FtM and 1 for MtF? MtFs statistically outnumber FtM 2:1. Hrrmm... Curious.


 
Yeah, I have two furry friends who are FtM, but none who are MtF. Well, no one ever accused furfags of being normal following statistics.

This is just further evidence that there are no chicks in this fandom.  Even chicks who were born as dudes.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Also, anyone else surprised we have currently 3 votes for FtM and 1 for MtF? MtFs statistically outnumber FtM 2:1. Hrrmm... Curious.


 It's cause I don't know about you, but as a mtf I have been treated like utter shit from furries before just for being mtf trans.  It's all fine until I say I'm going to fully transition, but once I say the words "fully transition" all hell breaks loose if the person is a asshole.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> It's cause I don't know about you, but as a mtf I have been treated like utter shit from furries before just for being mtf trans.  It's all fine until I say I'm going to fully transition, but once I say the words "fully transition" all hell breaks loose if the person is a asshole.


 'Furries are so accepting'. I hate people who say that. Furries are just as ignorant, close-minded, etc. as the rest of the general population.

I'm sorry you have to experience that. -hug-


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> It's cause I don't know about you, but as a mtf I have been treated like utter shit from furries before just for being mtf trans. It's all fine until I say I'm going to fully transition, but once I say the words "fully transition" all hell breaks loose if the person is a asshole.





skittle said:


> 'Furries are so accepting'. I hate people who say that. Furries are just as ignorant, close-minded, etc. as the rest of the general population.
> 
> I'm sorry you have to experience that. -hug-


 
It's a valid point.  I consider myself a pretty open-minded person, and I still have more "issues" with MtFs than I do FtMs (primarily because as a gay lady I'm more like "get the fuck out of my gender" than I should be, I suppose).

Nothing against you personally, of course.  We all love you.  <3


----------



## alexis.anagram (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I like this thread. I generally identify as gender neutral in that I'm not picky about how individuals recognize me; I'm more irritated by social constructs (and conflicts) surrounding sex and sexuality.


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Gender fluid means your gender identity is subject to change. Some days you feel female and other days you feel male.


 AKA like a slug or a snail. Just whatever organ pops out first, that's the one you choose to be during sex.
Gotcha.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> 'Furries are so accepting'. I hate people who say that. Furries are just as ignorant, close-minded, etc. as the rest of the general population.
> 
> I'm sorry you have to experience that. -hug-


 Yeah, the "furries are accepting" is bullshit.
I've even come up with a term specifically for this, "compartmentalization effect".
Compartmentalization effect: When a individual says they are tolerant due the effect they primarily interact with other individuals who are like themselves.


Nylak said:


> It's a valid point.  I consider myself a pretty open-minded person, and I still have more "issues" with MtFs than I do FtMs (primarily because as a gay lady I'm more like "get the fuck out of my gender" than I should be, I suppose).
> 
> Nothing against you personally, of course.  We all love you.  <3


 I don't have a problem if you have issues with MtFs, but at least you've never gone, "How fucking dare you chop off your penis?! Fucking leave the fandom!"

As for me I'm generally tolerant cause I've had so many friends that were glbt, the one group of glbt that I absolutely hate are gay elitists.  I don't care who someone loves, but to put others down cause they aren't like you isn't tolerance.

As trans the main thing I want politically is just for the government to when I transition to be recognized as a woman, and anti-work discrimination laws.


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> I don't have a problem if you have issues with MtFs, but at least you've never gone, "How fucking dare you chop off your penis?! Fucking leave the fandom!"



Hey, I fully support the dismemberment of male genitalia.  They're gross.  XD



CannonFodder said:


> As for me I'm generally tolerant cause I've had so many friends that were glbt, the one group of glbt that I absolutely hate are gay elitists. I don't care who someone loves, but to put others down cause they aren't like you isn't tolerance.


Yeah, like the group that calls straight people "breeders" and such.  I also personally love those gay men who hate women in general, for god only knows what reason.  They make me just so....happy with them.  I don't want to throttle them at all.

I understand and sympathize that they are not sexually interested in my gender, but they do not have to be a bitch to me.  >>



CannonFodder said:


> As trans the main thing I want politically is just for the government to when I transition to be recognized as a woman, and anti-work discrimination laws.


Unfortunately with discrimination laws, there may be a law in effect but it will still never really eliminate the problem.  Not until society as a whole changes.  I mean, they may not officially treat you different because you're transgender, but they'll find another "official" reason to treat you different.  Because people suck that way.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Clayton said:


> AKA like a slug or a snail. Just whatever organ pops out first, that's the one you choose to be during sex.
> Gotcha.


 No.
Gender has nothing to do with that sex you are.


@Nylak: Do you know what your specific issues are? If you can at least figure that out you can work on them.


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> Hey, I fully support the dismemberment of male genitalia.  They're gross.  XD


 I fully agree with this statement.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> Unfortunately with discrimination laws, there may be a law in effect but it will still never really eliminate the problem.  Not until society as a whole changes.  I mean, they may not officially treat you different because you're transgender, but they'll find another "official" reason to treat you different.  Because people suck that way.


 I know, but it'd be a start.  To run a marathon you have to start first.


Willow said:


> I fully agree with this statement.


 Vaginoplasty costs 30k


----------



## Conker (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Also, anyone else surprised we have currently 3 votes for FtM and 1 for MtF? MtFs statistically outnumber FtM 2:1. Hrrmm... Curious.


 Furry forum. The guys all want cocks and the girls all want cocks :V


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> @Nylak: Do you know what your specific issues are? If you can at least figure that out you can work on them.


 
Yep. I'm female, I like females, and I get territorial when males try to act like females.

Yes, I realize that's extremely stupid.

But this is rooted in my experience that MtFs and male transvestites generally make very BAD females (in my personal experiences, not a universal truth, blah blah blah). They always seem to be loud, rude, outspoken and offensive, and not at all actually feminine. So, they're, you know, dudes in a dress and a wig. So what the fuck is the difference. The fact that this is their feminine ideal really kind of irks me.

And those are my issues. I'm working on getting over them. But there it is. >_>


...I'm now waiting for someone to post telling me how retarded I am for thinking this, so I can agree with them.  *twiddles thumbs.*


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> But this is rooted in my experience that MtFs and male transvestites generally make very BAD females (in my personal experiences, not a universal truth, blah blah blah). They always seem to be loud, rude, outspoken and offensive, and not at all actually feminine. So, they're, you know, dudes in a dress and a wig. So what the fuck is the difference. The fact that this is their feminine ideal really kind of irks me.


 What I don't get is the fetish surrounding this kind of trans.

I may be rude though, but that's cause of how many people I've had try to fuck me over, use me and betray me; nowadays I'm nobodies' bitch.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> Yep. I'm female, I like females, and I get territorial when males try to act like females.
> 
> Yes, I realize that's extremely stupid.
> 
> ...


 Do NOT group MtFs with transvestites. Issue number one. MtFs do not dress/act like females as a means of sexual gratification. 

You seem to hold onto a LOT of gender stereotypes on what makes someone female. You judge the entire group of a select few individuals who are just annoying PEOPLE. They are not dudes in a dress and a wig. That would be a drag queen or a transvestite. MtFs are people who are female just with the wrong equipment so to say. 

It seems a lot of your problem is rooted in gender stereotypes and what you feel makes someone female and what doesn't. You have a set image of what females are supposed to be like and the MtFs you have met do not meet that image.

It also seems you may feel a threat from these MtFs. That could be me speaking out of my ass. You feel they are on your 'territory' and are 'fakes'. This is actually a pretty common issue when it comes to being trans and sexuality. I'm basically a gay male and I get a lot of the problem with the opposite, obviously.

At least you know where your issue lies and thus you have a basis to at least work from.


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Do NOT group MtFs with transvestites. Issue number one. MtFs do not dress/act like females as a means of sexual gratification.
> 
> You seem to hold onto a LOT of gender stereotypes on what makes someone female. You judge the entire group of a select few individuals who are just annoying PEOPLE. They are not dudes in a dress and a wig. That would be a drag queen or a transvestite. MtFs are people who are female just with the wrong equipment so to say.
> 
> ...


 
Yep, I know all this and agree with it. *shrug* Still can't get over my gut reaction when I'm around most MtFs. xD  It's frustrating.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> Yep, I know all this and agree with it. *shrug* Still can't get over my gut reaction when I'm around most MtFs. xD  It's frustrating.


 How do you know they are MtF unless you ask?
Honestly, I think just being around them should help. You need to let go of your sex = gender conceptions which should help as well.


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> How do you know they are MtF unless you ask?


 
It's usually pretty easy to tell. They're up front about it, or they identify themselves as a female but they're obviously (physically) not. The only time I get confused on this issue on any sort of regular basis is when I just think they're a girlyboi type, and then they somehow refer to themselves as female, and I have the thought process of "major passing fail, try harder".

I've seen some FtM who are pretty convincing, but in person I've yet to meet a MtF who was truly physically convincing.  (Or, hell, maybe I have and I just didn't know.  XD)



skittle said:


> Honestly, I think just being around them should help.


You're probably right. I don't have any MtF friends IRL (because all the ones I know as acquaintances are annoying jackasses that I can't stand, regardless of any gender discrepancies), which would probably help.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> How do you know they are MtF unless you ask?
> Honestly, I think just being around them should help. You need to let go of your sex = gender conceptions which should help as well.


 Yeah, just because someone is one sex doesn't mean by default they act feminine or masculine.
While I am going to fully transition, I'm not going to be a woman that goes around wearing dresses all the time and in the kitchen.  I'm a nerd, I've always been a nerd.  However I do get what Nylak is saying.


Nylak said:


> It's usually pretty easy to tell. They're up front  about it, or they identify themselves as a female but they're obviously  (physically) not. The only time I get confused on this issue on any sort  of regular basis is when I just think they're a girlyboi type, and then  they somehow refer to themselves as female, and I have the thought  process of "major passing fail, try harder".
> 
> 
> You're probably  right. I don't have any MtF friends IRL (because all the ones I know as  acquaintances are annoying jackasses that I can't stand, regardless of  any gender discrepancies), which would probably help.


Eww, no I'm not going to prance around going, "HEY EVERYONE! I'M TRANS!".
When someone fails at passing that's just sad, what's worse is when someone does the drag voice.
If I was your friend irl I would pretty much ask you what I'm doing wrong, I've been looking for a girl that would help me do this, but I live in Texas.  The only people who would help me would be in the gsa group.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Here is the thing though, I've met some biological females who look more like men than some of the guys I know.

You can't just base of appearances either.


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Eww, no I'm not going to prance around going, "HEY EVERYONE! I'M TRANS!".
> When someone fails at passing that's just sad, what's worse is when someone does the drag voice.
> If I was your friend irl I would pretty much ask you what I'm doing wrong, I've been looking for a girl that would help me do this, but I live in Texas. The only people who would help me would be in the gsa group.


Haha, I think we all appreciate that. XD

And yeah, I bet overcoming the voice issue for a biological dude is not fun. :\ ...Along with everything else. I mean, all things considered, it is just physically harder for a male to resemble a female. A girl can pretty "easily" pass for a young or effeminate male if s/he works at it, but there is just no mistaking a male's skeletal structure for a female's without majorly covering stuff up.

And it may sound weird, but in your gsa group I'd definitely look for the help of a bi girl. XD A bi girl is going to pay more attention to the nuances and behaviors of other women than a straight girl would, but she's also going to notice what's masculine about your behavior that a lesbian might not pay attention to.


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Here is the thing though, I've met some biological females who look more like men than some of the guys I know.
> 
> You can't just base of appearances either.


 
My best friend is MtF and I thought he was a full chick for the entire time ive known him
then I saw he's got a dick
jinkies


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> Haha, I think we all appreciate that. XD
> 
> And yeah, I bet overcoming the voice issue for a biological dude is not fun. :\ ...Along with everything else. I mean, all things considered, it is just physically harder for a male to resemble a female. A girl can pretty "easily" pass for a young or effeminate male if s/he works at it, but there is just no mistaking a male's skeletal structure for a female's without majorly covering stuff up.
> 
> And it may sound weird, but in your gsa group I'd definitely look for the help of a bi girl. XD A bi girl is going to pay more attention to the nuances and behaviors of other women than a straight girl would, but she's also going to notice what's masculine about your behavior that a lesbian might not pay attention to.


 I really hope the gsa group starts up, and will try.


skittle said:


> Here is the thing though, I've met some biological females who look more like men than some of the guys I know.
> 
> You can't just base of appearances either.


 My sister lol XD
and now I feel bad for that joke.


----------



## Nylak (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> My sister lol XD
> and now I feel bad for that joke.


 
Burn. XD

Aaaaand now I'm going to let y'all have your thread back and get my intolerant ass out of it. *scuttles off* >3> CARRY ON LADIES AND GENTS AND GENTLADIES AND LADYGENTS.

Ladygents is really fun to say.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Nylak said:


> Burn. XD
> 
> Aaaaand now I'm going to let y'all have your thread back and get my intolerant ass out of it. *scuttles off* >3> CARRY ON LADIES AND GENTS AND GENTLADIES AND LADYGENTS.
> 
> Ladygents is really fun to say.


 I wouldn't call that intolerance exactly, you have a problem with people the sexual aspect which is understandable considering how big the fetish for it is.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Clayton said:


> My best friend is MtF and I thought she was a full chick for the entire time ive known her
> then I saw she's got a dick
> jinkies


 
Fix'd. Kinda.
Also, Clayton, gtfo. Seriously, this is not a place for you to come and be an asshat.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Fix'd. Kinda.
> Also, Clayton, gtfo. Seriously, this is not a place for you to come and be an asshat.


 I kind agree, clayton if she identifies as a girl, then address her as one.


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Fix'd. Kinda.
> Also, Clayton, gtfo. Seriously, this is not a place for you to come and be an asshat.


How the fuck am I being an asshat?


CannonFodder said:


> I kind agree, clayton if she identifies as a girl, then address her as one.


He doesn't identify by a set gender. He says I can call him he or she _[and I do]_. He even refers to himself as both.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Clayton said:


> How the fuck am I being an asshat?
> 
> He doesn't identify by a set gender. He says I can call him he or she _[and I do]_. He even refers to himself as both.


 Ah okay then, just worried cause I've seen asshats that refer to people with a different gender than their sex as their sex regardless of what the person was comfortable being addressed as.


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Ah okay then, just worried cause I've seen asshats that refer to people with a different gender than their sex as their sex regardless of what the person was comfortable being addressed as.


Yeah, I've just been callin him/her both for years, doesn't care one bit. I don't think he's thinking of getting a sex change though. Just being a chick w/ a dick.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Clayton said:


> Yeah, I've just been callin him/her both for years, doesn't care one bit. I don't think he's thinking of getting a sex change though. Just being a chick w/ a dick.


 Hey whatever makes her comfortable.


----------



## Airborne_Piggy (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Confused... Do you mean transgender as in trans-sex? Or just transgender as in its' actual definition?


----------



## Morroke (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

God I don't know

I'm pretty sure I'd be much happier as a gay or bi male

as opposed to a pan female

But then again I wouldn't have the relationship I have now, so that'd be a downside, otherwise I'd be all over being a guy.

Either way, I totally support the whole operation thing that people go through for it, all the medications for upping testosterone or estrogen, seems like a really painstaking progress but the reward is the ultimate victory in your own life I suppose.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Airborne_Piggy said:


> Confused... Do you mean transgender as in trans-sex? Or just transgender as in its' actual definition?


 The general all encompassing term.


----------



## Airborne_Piggy (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> The general all encompassing term.


 
Which means nothing to me...


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I see myself as a split down the middle, but I like being male.


----------



## Zenia (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> if she identifies as a girl, then address her as one.


That is one thing that always bugged me about two of my former coworkers. We had an MTF customer named Wendy. Wendy *obviously* wanted to be known as a woman and referred to as such... but every time she left the shop, these coworkers would use male pronouns to describe her. It really irritated me.

I have a friend who is FTM... and it is hard to remember sometimes to use male pronouns to describe him... but that is only because I have known him since he identified as female.

As for me... I am completely female physically, I just have some 'typical male' thought patterns. Sometimes I want to be a guy, but I like being a girl. I really like MTF who like girls and don't get south-of-the-border surgery though.


----------



## Gillie (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I have been struggling with my gender and sexuality for a while now.. I've been discovering new terms and identities for both, but nothing I truelly relate with.

I'm biologically female but identify as male more comfortably, however I keep to some stereotypes that are expected from a girl (long hair, shaven legs and arm pits, and fashion to some degree). At one point when I was younger I did shave my hair and wear boy's clothing, my parents made it clear they were uncomfortable with this so I just stopped..

Pretty much all of my life I have -wanted- to be male, but at times I find comfort in being female.
I don't think I'm brave enough to make any kind of transition though, I'm too scared of the alienation, and I kind of like being that boyish girl. Are we discussing sexuality in this thread too?


----------



## Airborne_Piggy (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gillie said:


> I have been struggling with my gender and sexuality for a while now.. I've been discovering new terms and identities for both, but nothing I truelly relate with.
> 
> I'm biologically female but identify as male more comfortably, however I keep to some stereotypes that are expected from a girl (long hair, shaven legs and arm pits, and fashion to some degree). At one point when I was younger I did shave my hair and wear boy's clothing, my parents made it clear they were uncomfortable with this so I just stopped..
> 
> ...


 
Plus there's the factor of whether you can change your mind and transition back.

I must say, if this is what we're discussing, I can relate almost 100% to this post. Just, instead replace "family" by "peer pressure," and switch the male/female.
I'm amazed at how accurate this is to my personal feelings. Wanna switch bodies? No wait, first, are you hot?


----------



## Gillie (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Airborne_Piggy said:


> Plus there's the factor of whether you can change your mind and transition back.
> 
> I must say, if this is what we're discussing, I can relate almost 100% to this post. Just, instead replace "family" by "peer pressure," and switch the male/female.
> I'm amazed at how accurate this is to my personal feelings. Wanna switch bodies? No wait, first, are you hot?


 
Well there's solace here in knowing I'm not alone in being "lost".

I guess I'm having trouble being honest with myself, messing up how I feel with what I want.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I truly am suprised and not suprised, judging by the people who reside in the fandom, for both cases. Via the poll, I see that there are at least five people that correspond to being under or pre-surgery, therapy, or other furture plans. CF, for the voice issue - I'd reccommend either listening to high pitched sounds constantly, that will hopefully get your brain used to only high pitched voices, such as feminine voice, and will eventually fit your own voice to be more like it; or, you could force your voice to change, by inhaling Helium. Inhaling large amounts of helium gas causes the voice to permanently or temporarly change, usually to a higher, inaccurate sound, that sounds very industrial compared to natural feminine voice. Although, if you inhale it in small amouts but constantly, the vocal cords would optimize to a semi - high pitch.

There are guys with high pitched voice, though, and I know some or many of them, becomed singers with large crowd. I'd rather not suggest the first option because I doubt it'll work, and the second one is pouring an unnatural gas into your body. Although, I think that such transitions are wicked body modifications that will eventually lower the quality of your life, with no way of truly reverting. The fact that you have to fight for your identidy saddens me. Best for your body to stay in it's original form. 

I suggest you to stay yourselves. In the fight for your identity, don't lose to yourselves - stay original.


----------



## Gillie (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> I truly am suprised and not suprised, judging by the people who reside in the fandom, for both cases. Via the poll, I see that there are at least five people that correspond to being under or pre-surgery, therapy, or other furture plans. CF, for the voice issue - I'd reccommend either listening to high pitched sounds constantly, that will hopefully get your brain used to only high pitched voices, such as feminine voice, and will eventually fit your own voice to be more like it; or, you could force your voice to change, by inhaling Helium. Inhaling large amounts of helium gas causes the voice to permanently or temporarly change, usually to a higher, inaccurate sound, that sounds very industrial compared to natural feminine voice. Although, if you inhale it in small amouts but constantly, the vocal cords would optimize to a semi - high pitch.
> 
> There are guys with high pitched voice, though, and I know some or many of them, becomed singers with large crowd. I'd rather not suggest the first option because I doubt it'll work, and the second one is pouring an unnatural gas into your body. Although, I think that such transitions are wicked body modifications that will eventually lower the quality of your life, with no way of truly reverting. The fact that you have to fight for your identidy saddens me. Best for your body to stay in it's original form.
> 
> I suggest you to stay yourselves. In the fight for your identity, don't lose to yourselves - stay original.


 
I'm really not sure about the accuracy of information in your post. As far as I was aware, inhaling helium does nothing to the vocal cords or any part of your body - I thought it condensed the sound waves that pass through it (as they leave your mouth) making them sound higher pitched..

No matter what you might think, people have benefited and become happier becoming transsexual. Although I'm not saying the opposite is not true - some people will regret such choices, but not everyone.

Gender is not physical as you are suggesting. People can be themselves by identifying as female "in a male body" to put it crudely.

By saying stay original - do you mean conform to stereotypes set to your sex, or stay original in the sense of just freely being yourself? The later I can agree with. What do you think of people who act as the opposite gender from their physical sex?


----------



## Airborne_Piggy (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> I truly am suprised and not suprised, judging by the people who reside in the fandom, for both cases. Via the poll, I see that there are at least five people that correspond to being under or pre-surgery, therapy, or other furture plans. CF, for the voice issue - I'd reccommend either listening to high pitched sounds constantly, that will hopefully get your brain used to only high pitched voices, such as feminine voice, and will eventually fit your own voice to be more like it; or, you could force your voice to change, by inhaling Helium. Inhaling large amounts of helium gas causes the voice to permanently or temporarly change, usually to a higher, inaccurate sound, that sounds very industrial compared to natural feminine voice. Although, if you inhale it in small amouts but constantly, the vocal cords would optimize to a semi - high pitch.
> 
> There are guys with high pitched voice, though, and I know some or many of them, becomed singers with large crowd. I'd rather not suggest the first option because I doubt it'll work, and the second one is pouring an unnatural gas into your body. Although, I think that such transitions are wicked body modifications that will eventually lower the quality of your life, with no way of truly reverting. The fact that you have to fight for your identidy saddens me. Best for your body to stay in it's original form.
> 
> I suggest you to stay yourselves. In the fight for your identity, don't lose to yourselves - stay original.


 
What about those women that don't have annoyingly high voices? Sexy voices.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gillie said:


> I'm really not sure about the accuracy of information in your post. As far as I was aware, inhaling helium does nothing to the vocal cords or any part of your body - I thought it condensed the sound waves that pass through it (as they leave your mouth) making them sound higher pitched..
> 
> No matter what you might think, people have benefited and become happier becoming transsexual. Although I'm not saying the opposite is not true - some people will regret such choices, but not everyone.
> 
> ...


 
I only use the following information that I know. Inhaling helium does change your voice, whether it's directly applied to the vocal cords or not. I am pretty sure that taking a large dose will make your voice sound like a siren.  I prefer being blind by my own opinion and believe that body modifications are only a burden, and people who practice such surgeries are nothing but abominations of people that were sane in the past, and now are gone too far. Sadly, my opinion appears to be like that only because I have never met any person that underwent such actions. I heard, I know, and I remember, and a lot of comes from the newspaper as well, promoting the LGBT parades.

People can be themselves by identifiying themselves as such, but I will never cease to say "Accept yourself - you were born X, stay X". 
Be proud in being who you actually are, and not what you or your brain seems to be. Although, who knows, some people truly have opposite minds to their body, and in such cases it's the best for them to be optimized and balanced.

By staying original I mean staying what you are. Not changing one cell in your body. I don't believe that stereotypes should affect any person's opinion about changing or not changing their gender. I think that people who act as the opposite gender from their physical sex should look for some help, but as long as they keep it mild it's perfectly fine. It's their lives, they can choose what they want to practice, but as long as they don't hurt anybody around them.
In my own life I want to outcast transgendered people while supporting communites of people who act as their opposite gender.




Airborne_Piggy said:


> What about those women that don't have annoyingly high voices? Sexy voices.


 
Some do, some not. I have yet to meet a woman who had an extremely annoying high voice, or a very low voice.

I live in a different reality.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gillie said:


> I have been struggling with my gender and sexuality for a while now.. I've been discovering new terms and identities for both, but nothing I truelly relate with.
> 
> I'm biologically female but identify as male more comfortably, however I keep to some stereotypes that are expected from a girl (long hair, shaven legs and arm pits, and fashion to some degree). At one point when I was younger I did shave my hair and wear boy's clothing, my parents made it clear they were uncomfortable with this so I just stopped..
> 
> ...


I'm a girly boy. We exist. It doesn't make you any less male. It took years for me to come to terms with things that I felt didn't make me 'trans'. I like girl clothes, I want to have kids, I enjoy having vaginal sex (sorry for the TMI), and I do not have extreme dysphoria/hatred for my female body. I struggled so long with these things before it finally clicked in my head that none of that mattered. I am MALE. I've always seen myself as such and identified as such. It isn't a split second decision and can take years to finally come to terms with it. There is a lot of internal transphobia with the issue too, the whole 'I have to be something OTHER than transgendered'. The entire process is a painstaking one.
Also, not wanting to do hormones or anything doesn't make you any less transgender. There are things I like about being female as well but, I realize my feelings for being male and being perceived as such are much stronger than my like with what I have as a female.
As for the sexuality part, it all depends on if it is linked to being transgendered and such. <3 Man, I hope I helped!



Morroke said:


> God I don't know
> 
> I'm pretty sure I'd be much happier as a gay or bi male
> 
> ...


  As for the relationship thing, being comfortable and happy with yourself comes before anything else.  I sadly learned this after getting married and trying to force myself into a female role. If your partner truly loves you for who you are than your gender shouldn't matter since you are still the same person.



Satellite One said:


> I truly am suprised and not suprised,  judging by the people who reside in the fandom, for both cases. Via the  poll, I see that there are at least five people that correspond to being  under or pre-surgery, therapy, or other furture plans. CF, for the  voice issue - I'd reccommend either listening to high pitched sounds  constantly, that will hopefully get your brain used to only high pitched  voices, such as feminine voice, and will eventually fit your own voice  to be more like it; or, you could force your voice to change, by  inhaling Helium. Inhaling large amounts of helium gas causes the voice  to permanently or temporarly change, usually to a higher, inaccurate  sound, that sounds very industrial compared to natural feminine voice.  Although, if you inhale it in small amouts but constantly, the vocal  cords would optimize to a semi - high pitch.
> 
> There are guys with high pitched voice, though, and I know some or many  of them, becomed singers with large crowd. I'd rather not suggest the  first option because I doubt it'll work, and the second one is pouring  an unnatural gas into your body. Although, I think that such transitions  are wicked body modifications that will eventually lower the quality of  your life, with no way of truly reverting. The fact that you have to  fight for your identidy saddens me. Best for your body to stay in it's  original form.
> 
> I suggest you to stay yourselves. In the fight for your identity, don't lose to yourselves - stay original.


 1) Pretty much all you said is utter bullshit.
2) As for my body to stay in it's original form...

I'd rather be a happy gay transgendered man than an unhappy straight female. We alter out bodies so that we can be happy and comfortable as who we are. What is SAD is people like you who tells us what we can/cannot do with OUR bodies. You are no one to dictate how we feel and how we should use our bodies. We OWN them, not you.
Transitioning for almost 100% of transgender people IMPROVES their quality of life. You should look at how depression runs rampant among the trans community, the suicide rates, etc. Yes, it does suck due to the opinion and feelings due to society at large. YOU are one of the people that causes such a problem because you tell us we should just 'suck it up and deal with what we have'. No. Just flat out NO. I'd rather deal with the adversary, the hate, the discrimination, the possibility of being murdered just to live my life as who I feel I am, fuck that, as who I KNOW I am. 
We ARE staying ourselves. Going through transition does not change who you are as a person. It frees you, it makes you able to live your life happily. Our personalities do not change as our physical bodies do. We are still the same person no matter how much we change our bodies.
The thing we have to fight are gender norms, stereotypes, hatred, discrimination and IGNORANCE. We do not fight our identities. We know perfectly well who we are.

Also, maybe I should add that science is proving that transgenders do in fact have the brain of their chosen gender identity.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html

Also, if you are going to spew ignorance, get the FUCK out of my thread.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Can a mod at an s to the end of Transgender? I just now noticed this. Whoops.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> Also, if you are going to spew ignorance, get the FUCK out of my thread.


 
What you consider ignorance is my opinion. It might as well be just an ignorant hate comment, but it's still my opinion.
Feel free to do what you wish for with your body, I oppose the idea.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> I have the right to say utter bullshit, I believe.
> 
> As I said in my second post in this thread,
> You are free to do so. I believe body mofications only ruin the body and that you will regret it, but if you'd rather be a gay transgendered man - go for it.
> ...


 There are no words for how badly I want to shake and scream at you right now.
People are murdered EVERYWHERE for being gay, bi, transgendered, fuck, for being a different religion or skin color. What little glitter shits, rainbows and unicorns world do you live in cause I would certainly LOVE to go there.
You are the reason transgenders have basically NO rights as human beings. Plain and simple. The 'just deal with it' or 'get over it', 'bail out', 'you'll regret it' mindset is the very same reason that people use to alienate us, say we are anything BUT people, etc. They use it in their minds to JUSTIFY stripping us of our basic freedoms.
You honestly have no idea about how it feels to be transgendered or otherwise. As far as I know, and studies have shown, almost every person who transitions are happier and NEVER regret their decision. I'd go do some research before you come charging in here spewing nothing but ignorance. Get your head out of your ass.


----------



## Greyscale (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Girlyboi/faggot here.


I've thought about the whole trans thing before, but I prefer to be able to switch between feminine and masculine at will.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> There are no words for how badly I want to shake and scream at you right now.
> People are murdered EVERYWHERE for being gay, bi, transgendered, fuck, for being a different religion or skin color. What little glitter shits, rainbows and unicorns world do you live in cause I would certainly LOVE to go there.
> You are the reason transgenders have basically NO rights as human beings. Plain and simple. The 'just deal with it' or 'get over it', 'bail out', 'you'll regret it' mindset is the very same reason that people use to alienate us, say we are anything BUT people, etc. They use it in their minds to JUSTIFY stripping us of our basic freedoms.
> You honestly have no idea about how it feels to be transgendered or otherwise. As far as I know, and studies have shown, almost every person who transitions are happier and NEVER regret their decision. I'd go do some research before you come charging in here spewing nothing but ignorance. Get your head out of your ass.


 
I'd regret such a transition.

It has been a long time since there were murders with an LGBT background in this country. I never heard of such acts, humans are humans no matter what, and every citizens gets equal rights, unless of background crime. You should check this. Even harsh orthodoxes do not stop anything such as tranistion in this "holy land of god".

Although, there is no place on earth where people don't oppose ideas in murder. Sadly, it also happens here.


> In August 2009, an armed attacker shot dead two people and injured 15 more in an attack on a lesbian and gay centre in Tel Aviv.


Such acts were strictly deplored by the goverment, as well as the prime minister and the president.

It's perfectly legit to change the biological gender in this country, but hate speech against gays is allowed to certain extents, no same sex marriage can take place in the country, even though it is viewed that it will legal in the furture, and men who practice sex with men can't donate blood. The country is a very glittery rainbow place for gays, and Tel Aviv was nicknamed "the gay capital of the middle east".  Even palestinian LGBTs were on the lookout for refuge inside the country - I believe that this place is a better haven than places such as the US.

Also, why am I the reason why transgenders have no human rights? It's not me, it's the goverment and the political parties who oppose it. I never had any contact with such a person in the past, and not in the present, and I don't have any authorization to politically protest against LGBT rights, and ruin rights.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> I'd regret such a transition.
> 
> It has been a long time since there were murders with an LGBT background in this country. I never heard of such acts, humans are humans no matter what, and every citizens gets equal rights, unless of background crime. You should check this. Even harsh orthodoxes do not stop anything such as tranistion in this "holy land of god".
> 
> ...


 YOU would regret such a transition because you are not transgendered. That seems like a pretty straight forward thought, no?
Just because somewhere is the 'gay' capital of some place doesn't make it any safer for a transgendered person. Transgender people are discriminated in the GLB community more than you would believe. Not to point fingers but Nylak even showed that herself. 
You are part of it because you do not speak out. You do not vote for political parties who are open-minded. If you do, than I am wrong on that part, but you sure as hell do not lobby for equal rights as you shown. Just because the government doesn't approve of GLBT murders doesn't mean your country is much better than anywhere else.
Also a transgender being murdered is in no way held in the same regard as anyone else. Murdering someone who is transgender for the sake of them being such in a lot of places isn't even seen as a hate crime. Most people get away with a slap on the wrist because anything else is too 'controversial'. Most medical places will not treat us due to us being transgender and 'too controversial'. Do not hold your country is such high regard, it happens EVERYWHERE.
Your country isn't some special 'gay safe haven'. Stop thinking that.

Though I must say, I do love Dana International. <3


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Is it wrong for me to become angry when I see the word "cuntboy"? I strongly dislike the individuals who identify as that, too. I'm not sure why. While I don't identify as that myself, I've always taken that term as an insult, and I feel like whoever is using it is just degrading or dehumanizing themself and indirectly dragging me down with them.

Idefk.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Honestly unless you start hormones before puberty MTFs have a really really hard time passing unless you already kind of look like a female before you start. I've never once been surprised to find out someone was MTF because they typically are a varied combination of: tall, broad shouldered, with big hands, an adams apple, and a male jawline.

Of course there are women that look very masculine naturally too, and although I put it crudely, that really sucks for them.

As someone who considers myself genderqueer/genderfluid, I sort of take offense to getting yelled at for using the incorrect pronoun subconsciously; because you're basically telling me that even though I'm looking at an apple and my brain tells me it's an apple, I should call it an orange because that apple wants to be an orange.

I will of course correct myself in the future if it offends people so much, but I don't personally care what pronoun people use to describe me because I don't define myself by my gender, biological sex, or sexuality. I define myself as a sum of my interests and personality traits; and I think it's really sad when people get so obsessed over trying to fit themselves into a gender stereotype because the other gender stereotype doesn't work for them.

Because of this most of the transgendered people I've met are some of the most vain, boring, and shallow people I know, they're not unlike those who go camp gay for the attention.

Not trying imply that this applies to any of you specifically or anything, but I'm sure someone having an opinion that doesn't run parallel to your own is going to set one of you off into a furious rage.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I feel like I have to try and address Nylak since a lot of what she's saying seems like it could be aimed at me.

I just want to say, first of all, that I have no idea what it means to be socially female.  A woman can act masculine (behavior wise at least, even if not in terms of dress/grooming) without any repurcussions.  A man can't act effiminate.  Acting effiminate for a man is something that will be seen as detracting from your character and making you less of a person.  I used to be effiminate when I was younger, but I just had those ideas drilled into me; that I was less of a person if I didn't embrace the full stereotypical male behaviors, that my life meant less if I didn't.  And deviating more than a few clicks from that ideal was more than just a slight mark against you, it meant you weren't fully rational.  Being Gay meant you were no longer human and were a joke, or in liberal company some sort of lesser creature needing protection.  Being Trans...?  That meant being insane.  It literally meant that your very existence was meaningless.

So I mean, I learned to act like a stereotypical man as best as I could figure out.  And I was always trying to compensate, so that meant I got more caught up in being "manly" than most men, taking up kickboxing and wrestling, learning to trash talk and talk down to people and swagger and play myself up, etc.  So I turned myself into a stereotype.  And it became more than just an act, because my brain got used to those sorts of behaviors.  I conditioned myself for those behaviors to where they were just part of me, and the only part of me that remained female was the connection that ran from my brain to my non-existent vagina.

I wrote a suicide note a few months back and this was one of the major reasons I wanted to die.  I'm attaching the more relevant part of the note but in spoiler tags:



Spoiler



I am not like other women.  I can never be like other women.  This extends beyond the mere physical.  At a nightclub recently, I saw a friend of mine dance.  She was completely at ease with both herself and other people.  She was uninhibited, vibrant, outgoing; she was everything a woman should be.  She expressed herself through her femininity.  There was cohesion there, between herself and her feelings.  After thinking about it I realize this is beyond me.  I am the definition of inhibited.  There are lasting suspicions and fears which make it difficult for me to relax around other people.  Although I have feelings which I would call feminine, I don't interact with them directly.  I don't interact with people directly.  My feelings trigger thoughts, which suffice for a substitute for the feelings themselves.  I can only express myself through _the thoughts I have about my feelings_, and not in direct conjunction with my feelings in any way.  I conclude that I'm not really a woman.  I believe I once was.  This is not to say I am a man, which would be even less accurate.  Something happened to me though; a number of things really; and now I don't even have the privilege of experiencing my life in the relatively structured terms of a â€œwoman trapped in a man's bodyâ€.  To begin with there was the abuse at Plum Creek Academy, the alternative school I attended from the 7-9th grades.  It was understood there that I was transgender.  Not by myself, but by my teachers and principal, who were more than happy to make a project out of me. With their helpful attention, I learned to control things which were previously as as automatic as breathing to me.  The way I walked, spoke, argued, reacted emotionally to challenges; things which few people except queers are asked to learn to control.  At least by merit of its scope, although perhaps not by merit of its nature, this undertaking separated me from the experiences of the bulk of other people and hence put a division between myself and other people.

 This is the first count on which I am a monster.  I believe it to be permanent.  When you learn to control something, to turn it off or on, to distance yourself from it, you make it so that it's no longer a part of you.  I learned to control almost all of my emotions.  Therefore, almost all of my emotions are no longer a part of me.  For the most part they are still present; visible, lingering, a subject for me to act upon if I so choose.  I can no longer act _through_ them.  They no longer color my thoughts and actions like they once did.  Some of them have since atrophied and rotted away from lack of use.  If one were to physically inspect whatever it is that is _woman_ in me, it would likely resemble swiss cheese left out in the sun; full of holes, degraded beyond recognition, absolutely worthless for any standard purpose.

 All of this explains two things.  The alienation I experienced at the nightclub, and the mechanism which enabled it.  A third indignity is implicitly contained within my explanation.  The present state of my life, and the permanently degraded state of my emotions can be attributed to two parties; those who were antagonistic to me as a child, and myself.  Therefore this third indignity is itself comprised of two separate indignities.  Every day I live my life, I feel like I am giving a victory to my greatest enemies.  Every day I live my life, I also live with the knowledge that I collaborated with them and made this victory possible.  I cannot even console myself with the privileged status of victim, because I bear responsibility for ending up where I am in the world.  Maybe not all of it, but enough to hold me accountable for it.

 So you see, I have already killed the woman in me.  Everything I am and everything I should have been has been dead since childhood.  Trying to resuscitate it or to otherwise emulate what I've murdered is the act of a necrophiliac.  I could live with being genderless.  It is possible.  It is not happy.  If I am to suffer from social stigmatization, anatomical incorrectness, the feelings of powerlessness which come from my treatment as a child, and the feelings of extreme guilt and regret which come from my own personal failures in this matter, then at least I would hope to have a normal human experience waiting for me at the end of it all.  Even if it were only mine, if my failure to pass and assimilate into society meant that it wasn't recognized by others, the fact that it was real and whole at all would serve as some sort of justification for this suffering.  However, I am no longer a woman in any happy or healthy sense.  The woman I should have been is dead and gone for good.  If I truly want to be made whole through her, then it is only fitting that I join her in death.



So I mean, you say that MtF's aren't women, and in some sense maybe you're right.  Either not women or a radically different kind of woman, at least for those of us who didn't transition early.  I doubt Kim Petras would upset you in the way I'm liable to, heh.  It's just, I never learned how to be a woman.  In fact, I learned how to suppress every aspect of myself that might possibly be considered feminine by other people and to replace it with the types of behavior you profess to hate.  And now, I don't know, I think it's just part of me.  To the extent that I've had to try and find masculine women as role models because otherwise I feel like I'm split in half by transition.  So like, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Molly Millions from the Sprawl Trilogy, Dagny Taggart (who in Atlas is described as "having the posture and presence of a man despite wearing unmistakably feminine clothes"), and so forth.  It's not even that I like that general aesthetic or that it makes me happy internally, it's just that that's how I've learned to externalize my feelings and interact with the world.  Like I've learned to play Texas Hold 'em where woman have learned to play Omaha, or something (absolutely terrible metaphor, but maybe it gets something across)

So I don't know what to say really, except that I share in your hatred of all those things about me.  This probably comes across as whining.  Sorry.  I was just trying to explain something, but I'm not sure I was succesfull or even that it changes anything if I was.


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Alfeo said:


> Is it wrong for me to become angry when I see the word "cuntboy"? I strongly dislike the individuals who identify as that, too. I'm not sure why. While I don't identify as that myself, I've always taken that term as an insult, and I feel like whoever is using it is just degrading or dehumanizing themself and indirectly dragging me down with them.
> 
> Idefk.


 I didn't know people used this to describe themselves. I thought it was mainly used to describe characters. Kinda like dickgirl.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> YOU would regret such a transition because you are not transgendered. That seems like a pretty straight forward thought, no?
> Just because somewhere is the 'gay' capital of some place doesn't make it any safer for a transgendered person. Transgender people are discriminated in the GLB community more than you would believe. Not to point fingers but Nylak even showed that herself.
> You are part of it because you do not speak out. You do not vote for political parties who are open-minded. If you do, than I am wrong on that part, but you sure as hell do not lobby for equal rights as you shown. Just because the government doesn't approve of GLBT murders doesn't mean your country is much better than anywhere else.
> Also a transgender being murdered is in no way held in the same regard as anyone else. Murdering someone who is transgender for the sake of them being such in a lot of places isn't even seen as a hate crime. Most people get away with a slap on the wrist because anything else is too 'controversial'. Most medical places will not treat us due to us being transgender and 'too controversial'. Do not hold your country is such high regard, it happens EVERYWHERE.
> ...


 
Compared to almost any other country in the area, my country is pretty safe. Nobody is completely safe, but the law prohibit attacks, assaults, hate ultimatums, and of course, murder.
Things such as murder will never stop, but the chance to be shot because of LGBT assosiation is smaller. We have more rights for the community than the US, for example, considering that there are still states that ban such actions.

The only political parties that fend off any kind of homosexual or transgenders are the ultra orthodox ones, for which I never vote.
When I say "much better" I mean in the context of LGBT rights, other than that, there are many obstacles blocking our furture.
I follow the law, and I believe in it. Without it there wouldn't be a country here, so why not trust the law?

Dana International is a very good singer, and she is a component in promoting the success of transsexual singers and artists worldwide.

As for your actual plans, what exactly do you wish for and when will you do such actions?


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Why oh why is this thread veering towards suicide. Do not want.



> I didn't know people used this to describe themselves. I thought it was mainly used to describe characters. Kinda like dickgirl.



I saw someone who was questioning if they could be trans or not. Next thing I know, about two or three months later, they were calling themself a cuntboy. I've no idea why I got so pissed off when it isn't any of my business what they decide to call themself.


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Alfeo said:


> I saw someone who was questioning if they could be trans or not. Next thing I know, about two or three months later, they were calling themself a cuntboy. I've no idea why I got so pissed off when it isn't any of my business what they decide to call themself.


 I don't think it's so much the word that pissed you off but the fact that the person was contemplating it and then a few months later are calling themselves a label like they've known all along or something. Kinda like if someone thinks they're gay and then later comes out as a fag/faggot to everyone. 

If that makes any sense.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Alfeo said:


> Why oh why is this thread veering towards suicide. Do not want.


 
I was just trying to explain something and that was the place where I thought I'd written down my feelings the most clearly.  Again, I know it probably comes off as a trigger for the "not-a-hugbox" meme, but I wasn't looking for one.  Just trying to communicate something.  Sorry.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Willow said:


> I don't think it's so much the word that pissed you off but the fact that the person was contemplating it and then a few months later are calling themselves a label like they've known all along or something. Kinda like if someone thinks they're gay and then later comes out as a fag/faggot to everyone.
> 
> If that makes any sense.



It's just obnoxious, like in South Park when Mr Garrison is like "IM A FAG!" after spending so much time in the closet he shits mothballs.


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Brace said:


> I was just trying to explain something and that was the place where I thought I'd written down my feelings the most clearly.  Again, I know it probably comes off as a trigger for the "not-a-hugbox" meme, but I wasn't looking for one.  Just trying to communicate something.  Sorry.


 
It's not that. I was just released after being involuntarily committed to a center not too long ago, so I've really been trying to stay away from the subject entirely. Simply put, I'm afraid to fall back into that mindset again. I know you weren't looking for sympathy or a hug per-say, and it's nothing you need to apologize for. You did nothing wrong.



> If that makes any sense.



I definitely understand what you're getting at. It makes sense. However it wasn't just that one time--that was simply when I realized there really WERE people who identified as that. I wasn't aware until then.


----------



## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I had no idea transgendered people were so obsessive-compulsive. All this talk about MtFs never looking girly enough...

I'll say it again, I pray for the day scientists find out how to change X chromosomes into Y chromosomes and vice versa.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



RayO_ElGatubelo said:


> I had no idea transgendered people were so obsessive-compulsive. All this talk about MtFs never looking girly enough...
> 
> I'll say it again, I pray for the day scientists find out how to change X chromosomes into Y chromosomes and vice versa.


 
How is it obsessive compulsive? Do you even know what that means?


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



RayO_ElGatubelo said:


> I had no idea transgendered people were so obsessive-compulsive. All this talk about MtFs never looking girly enough...
> 
> I'll say it again, I pray for the day scientists find out how to change X chromosomes into Y chromosomes and vice versa.


 I wouldn't call that being obsessive compulsive.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Alfeo said:


> Is it wrong for me to become angry when I see the word "cuntboy"? I strongly dislike the individuals who identify as that, too. I'm not sure why. While I don't identify as that myself, I've always taken that term as an insult, and I feel like whoever is using it is just degrading or dehumanizing themself and indirectly dragging me down with them.
> 
> Idefk.


 I only find it offensive when used in an insulting way. Same with faggot. Then again, I'm also one of the head moderators of a site called cuntboys, though we are working at changing the name. I think the problem is that the word is associated with the fetish part of the transgender realm. Same thing with dickgirl. Though I find both of those words more appealing than shehe, heshe, it, shemale, etc. Personally I see it as stating a fact. I am a boy with a cunt or she is a girl with a dick.



Satellite One said:


> Compared to almost any other country in the  area, my country is pretty safe. Nobody is completely safe, but the law  prohibit attacks, assaults, hate ultimatums, and of course, murder.
> Things such as murder will never stop, but the chance to be shot because  of LGBT assosiation is smaller. We have more rights for the community  than the US, for example, considering that there are still states that  ban such actions.
> 
> The only political parties that fend off any kind of homosexual or  transgenders are the ultra orthodox ones, for which I never vote.
> ...


 That is what you think. America has the same 'laws'. Just because there are laws doesn't mean they are followed, enforced, etc. I can state a number of cases where because the victim was transgendered their case was not taken as seriously as another such as the rape/murder of Brandon Teena. A lot of people said he was 'asking for it'. It is just sickening.
Your country is just as bad as America. Get off your high horse.

As for what I wish for and when will I do it. Right now I am looking into HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy). I am currently in therapy to get my letter of recommendation from my therapist saying that I know the risks, etc. and that I am mentally stable enough and that this is the right choice for me. Then I will go to a physician, get a recommendation for an endocrinologist. And thus, start hormones. I want to masculinize my body, make it fit for me. Facial hair, deepening my voice, get a more V shaped figure, etc.



Zaraphayx said:


> Honestly unless you start hormones before  puberty MTFs have a really really hard time passing unless you already  kind of look like a female before you start. I've never once been  surprised to find out someone was MTF because they typically are a  varied combination of: tall, broad shouldered, with big hands, an adams  apple, and a male jawline.
> 
> Of course there are women that look very masculine naturally too, and although I put it crudely, that really sucks for them.
> 
> ...


 We do not define ourselves as our gender either.
http://www.khaoskomix.com/cgi-bin/comic.cgi?chp=7&page=21
I haven't seen anything else that expresses it better. FtM or MtF, simply being called the correct pronoun means a lot to us. It doesn't encompass all we are but, it means a lot to us. It is extremely hard to explain and I hope one day I can put it into words.
As for the passing part, I've met biological women who are more manly looking than ANY of the MtFs I know. Passing is MORE about looks. Small things such as how you carry yourself, mannerism, etc. things that most people over look since it is so drilled into our heads due to society, help you pass more than anything else. 
Saying that is like looking at an apple and having to call it an orange is devaluating to a transgender. It makes us seem like we are just an act, faking it. That what we feel and how we are trying to express ourselves, be ourselves, is just a ploy. It is anything but.
We're not doing this for 'attention'. Anyone who thinks that needs to pull their head out of their ass. No one would go through this shit just for the attention.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

Zaraphayx, it's not a matter of wanting to be the opposite gender, it's a matter of feeling like you are that gender.  It's also not a matter of trying to match your behavior to social standards, because as I've said, I have largely stereotypical male mannerisms, and as Skittle has said, he has largely stereotypical female mannerisms.

Also, my interests are inherently boring to most people.  Music games, philosophy, cyberpunk literature, a few different types of game (vidjya and otherwise) and maybe a few sports that I can't even play anymore.  I love talking about them but when people misgender me I don't want to talk to those people at all, so it just sort of works out that one of the more trivial aspects of me serves as a gateway to the more substantive aspects.  Don't ask me to justify that, it's not like I want it to be that way, it just hurts when people misgender me and makes it hard to carry on any further with them.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Zaraphayx said:


> How is it obsessive compulsive? Do you even know what that means?


 I don't think so, cause I have OCD, but that absolutely nothing to do with being trans.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> That is what you think. America has the same 'laws'. Just because there are laws doesn't mean they are followed, enforced, etc. I can state a number of cases where because the victim was transgendered their case was not taken as seriously as another such as the rape/murder of Brandon Teena. A lot of people said he was 'asking for it'. It is just sickening.
> Your country is just as bad as America. Get off your high horse.
> 
> As for what I wish for and when will I do it. Right now I am looking into HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy). I am currently in therapy to get my letter of recommendation from my therapist saying that I know the risks, etc. and that I am mentally stable enough and that this is the right choice for me. Then I will go to a physician, get a recommendation for an endocrinologist. And thus, start hormones. I want to masculinize my body, make it fit for me. Facial hair, deepening my voice, get a more V shaped figure, etc.


 
My country is as bad or worse for compromising the USA's aid without spending it seriously on the things that truly matter.
Also, it's not a horse, it's a camel.

For which reason is a person supposed to be mentally stable enough?
Are the risks mental, physical, or both? 

By injecting hormones, will the body truly get a different shape? I know that facial hair and voice are changed upon hormones, but I doubt that a complete body shape will form out of it.


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



> By injecting hormones, will the body truly get a different shape? I know  that facial hair and voice are changed upon hormones, but I doubt that a  complete body shape will form out of it.



Redistribution of body fat causes the body to change shape--whether it appears more masculine or feminine. You see such changes much earlier with testosterone than with estrogen, especially around the hips and thighs.


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I am genderqueer. I don't know how I'll feel tomorrow, or 5 years down the road. I've learned to just go with how I feel, seeing as long-term goals are a hard concept for me to grasp. 
Actually, what I have (BPD ) describes these symptoms: "Indecisive in goals, relationships, ideals, morals, gender, and sexuality."So I'll just list myself as "other".


----------



## Heliophobic (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

A shitty poll on FAF? How unexpected...


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Grycho said:


> A shitty poll on FAF? How unexpected...


 
A terrible poster from Ohio?  How unexpected...


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Grycho said:


> A shitty poll on FAF? How unexpected...


 And you can do better?


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> We do not define ourselves as our gender either.
> http://www.khaoskomix.com/cgi-bin/comic.cgi?chp=7&page=21



I read this like 3 times and I still don't see how that isn't defining yourself by your gender. Doing stereotypically feminine/masculine things for the pure sake of having people acknowledge you as that gender seems to fit the bill of what I was trying to get at.



> I haven't seen anything else that expresses it better. FtM or MtF, simply being called the correct pronoun means a lot to us. It doesn't encompass all we are but, it means a lot to us. It is extremely hard to explain and I hope one day I can put it into words.


And as long as the person in question is mature and doesn't fly off the handle for a mistake I don't have a problem calling them by their preferred pronoun.




> As for the passing part, I've met biological women who are more manly looking than ANY of the MtFs I know. Passing is MORE about looks. Small things such as how you carry yourself, mannerism, etc. things that most people over look since it is so drilled into our heads due to society, help you pass more than anything else.


I acknowledged that.



> Saying that is like looking at an apple and having to call it an orange is devaluating to a transgender.


Telling me that I'm an ass for mistaking your gender because you A) can't pass B) haven't started hormones or C) dress in unisex clothing/are physically androgynous and I have to make a judgment call, is unfair and you know it.



> It makes us seem like we are just an act, faking it. That what we feel and how we are trying to express ourselves, be ourselves, is just a ploy. It is anything but.
> We're not doing this for 'attention'. Anyone who thinks that needs to pull their head out of their ass. No one would go through this shit just for the attention.


I never said it was for attention, stop pretending I'm Brazen.



			
				Brace said:
			
		

> Zaraphayx, it's not a matter of wanting to be the opposite gender, it's a  matter of feeling like you are that gender.



I don't see how that makes a difference.

Step 1: You feel like you're not the right gender

Step 2: You want to look the way you feel.

Step 3: You choose whether or not to act on that feeling and get what you want.

I realize that's oversimplifying it, it's not my intention to insult.



> It's also not a matter of  trying to match your behavior to social standards, because as I've said,  I have largely stereotypical male mannerisms, and as Skittle has said,  he has largely stereotypical female mannerisms.


And a good number of transgendered people attempt to train themselves to eliminate the mannerisms of their biological gender and replace them with mannerisms of their desired gender.





> Also, my interests are inherently boring to most people.  Music games,  philosophy, cyberpunk literature, a few different types of game (vidjya  and otherwise) and maybe a few sports that I can't even play anymore.


That's great but...


> I  love talking about them but when people misgender me I don't want to  talk to those people at all, so it just sort of works out that one of  the more trivial aspects of me serves as a gateway to the more  substantive aspects.


You choose to block people out because they don't understand transgendered people or misidentify you, you can't blame others for that. First impressions are everything.



> Don't ask me to justify that, it's not like I want  it to be that way, it just hurts when people misgender me and makes it  hard to carry on any further with them.


You don't need to justify it as long as other people don't need to justify themselves when they tell you you're boring and vain.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Zaraphayx said:


> I don't see how that makes a difference.
> 
> Step 1: You feel like you're not the right gender
> 
> ...



It's like faulting someone for buying bread versus faulting someone for buying a PS3.  People get hungry every day, whether they want to or not.  Sure, it's their choice to eat, but in this context not eating is unhealthy.  Whereas not having a PS3 isn't any sort of big deal, and someone throwing a bitch-fit over it can rightly be called a bitch.



Zaraphayx said:


> And a good number of transgendered people attempt to train themselves to eliminate the mannerisms of their biological gender and replace them with mannerisms of their desired gender.



Well do you want TG people to pass or not?  I don't see how you can complain about us making it harder for you to tell what pronoun to use, and then also complain about us adopting the behavior of a stereotypical member of our target gender, since the second is meant as a solution to the first.  



Zaraphayx said:


> That's great but...
> You choose to block people out because they don't understand transgendered people or misidentify you, you can't blame others for that. First impressions are everything.



I choose to block them out because it hurts when they don't understand transgender people and when they misidentify me.  I don't choose for it to hurt.  I can't control what does and doesn't cause me pain.



Zaraphayx said:


> You don't need to justify it as long as other people don't need to justify themselves when they tell you you're boring and vain.



Well at least you're being explicit now =/


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Brace said:


> It's like faulting someone for buying bread versus faulting someone for buying a PS3.  People get hungry every day, whether they want to or not.  Sure, it's their choice to eat, but in this context not eating is unhealthy.  Whereas not having a PS3 isn't any sort of big deal, and someone throwing a bitch-fit over it can rightly be called a bitch.



You can want to eat and need to eat at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.



> Well do you want TG people to pass or not?  I don't see how you can complain about us making it harder for you to tell what pronoun to use, and then also complain about us adopting the behavior of a stereotypical member of our target gender, since the second is meant as a solution to the first.



I don't recall ever saying that I didn't, what you quoted was just me stating a fact.



> I choose to block them out because it hurts when they don't understand transgender people and when they misidentify me.  I don't choose for it to hurt.  I can't control what does and doesn't cause me pain.



Other people feel pain too, when those people deliberately shut everyone else out it's unfair to blame the people who got shut out. It isn't their fault for not understanding you any more than it is your fault for being upset by it.



> Well at least you're being explicit now =/


 
Telling it like it is can be explicit, yes.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Zaraphayx said:


> You can want to eat and need to eat at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.



I'm not sure where you're going with this.



Zaraphayx said:


> I don't recall ever saying that I didn't, what you quoted was just me stating a fact.



You seemed to be taking issue with TG people trying to fit a stereotype, based on this:



Zaraphayx said:


> I think it's really sad when people get so obsessed over  trying to fit  themselves into a gender stereotype because the other  gender stereotype  doesn't work for them.



Which I refuted by giving you two cases where TG people didn't naturally fit the stereotype.  To which you responded that many adapt to fit the stereotype; but this is specifically to try and solve the whole "not passing" issue that results in problems for you as well.  So I'm just wondering if you could be consistent about your complaints?  Plz?  K thx



Zaraphayx said:


> Other people feel pain too, when those people deliberately shut everyone else out it's unfair to blame the people who got shut out. It isn't their fault for not understanding you any more than it is your fault for being upset by it.



I don't blame most of the people I shut out, provided they know better than to try and break back in.  They should realize that I'm shutting them out for a reason and should refrain from making the same mistake multiple times.



Zaraphayx said:


> Telling it like it is can be explicit, yes.



I don't see how you could possibly know anything about me considering we've never gotten past hangups about the TG thing, so I'll take your self-declared radical honesty with a grain of salt.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Brace said:


> I'm not sure where you're going with this.


 I honestly don't know where Zaraphayx is going with this either.


Also I didn't know there were so many transgender on FaF.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Brace said:


> I'm not sure where you're going with this.



I didn't really know where you were going with the part I replied to either, I just sort of went with it.



> You seemed to be taking issue with TG people trying to fit a stereotype, based on this:



Differences in mannerisms between the genders aren't stereotypes, acting sickeningly girly/manly like a terrible valley girl/macho stereotype is annoying. You don't need to cake on 10 pounds of makeup or chug beer and belch loudly to pass as a woman/man. It looks like a desperate cry for attention.




> Which I refuted by giving you two cases where TG people didn't naturally fit the stereotype.  To which you responded that many adapt to fit the stereotype; but this is specifically to try and solve the whole "not passing" issue that results in problems for you as well.  So I'm just wondering if you could be consistent about your complaints?  Plz?  K thx



Except you're making my complaints up for me.

I said stereotypical behavior is annoying, stereotypical behavior by people who cannot pass is doubly annoying. It's called subtlety and it's something many people apparently lack. :V



> I don't blame most of the people I shut out, provided they know better than to try and break back in.  They should realize that I'm shutting them out for a reason and should refrain from making the same mistake multiple times.



Yeah attempting to know why you upset someone so you don't make the same mistake twice is terrible.

So you hate it when people don't understand you but you deny them the chance to understand.

And you called me inconsistent :V





> I don't see how you could possibly know anything about me considering we've never gotten past hangups about the TG thing, so I'll take your self-declared radical honesty with a grain of salt.



There were never any hangups about you being transgendered, I had hangups about you being an egocentric arrogant bitch. I was going to applaud you for being civil for once actually, but I'm sure you would have just taken that as condescending so I decided against it. Most of the time I just ignore you because you're on an emo hormonal rampage.

Also I never said I considered you vain or boring, I said other people are free to make that assumption if that's the only side of you that you let them see.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Zaraphayx said:


> I didn't really know where you were going with the part I replied to either, I just sort of went with it.



One of the risks of metaphors I suppose.



Zaraphayx said:


> Differences in mannerisms between the genders aren't stereotypes, acting sickeningly girly/manly like a terrible valley girl/macho stereotype is annoying. You don't need to cake on 10 pounds of makeup or chug beer and belch loudly to pass as a woman/man. It looks like a desperate cry for attention.



I like chugging beer though.  Um.  Mostly I just want to say it's hard to use finnesse and to know where all the lines are exactly when you've never done something before.  



Zaraphayx said:


> Except you're making my complaints up for me.
> 
> I said stereotypical behavior is annoying, stereotypical behavior by people who cannot pass is doubly annoying. It's called subtlety and it's something many people apparently lack. :V



Fair enough.  But where I'm at right now, I either try to find a reasonable median of girliness and screw up a hundred times in the process and get embarrassed, or I just ignore the social aspects of gender altogether and get picked on for it but at least I've resolved not to care so it doesn't hurt as much.  Trying to learn the ins and outs of socializing as a gender I wasn't raised as means making lots of mistakes, and I get just as little leeway for those mistakes as I do for acting in the manner I was raised.  It just makes it kind of hard to stick my neck out.



Zaraphayx said:


> Yeah attempting to know why you upset someone so you don't make the same mistake twice is terrible.
> 
> So you hate it when people don't understand you but you deny them the chance to understand.
> 
> And you called me inconsistent :V


 
It probably is inconsistent but it's also a more or less automatic reaction.  I mean, to an extent the two go hand in hand.  If you react without thinking it's probably not going to be perfectly rational.  It's just hard, because it still hurts while I'm giving that second chance, or third, or whatever, and so my first instinct is always going to be to try and shut the person out.



Zaraphayx said:


> There were never any hangups about you being transgendered, I had hangups about you being an egocentric arrogant bitch. I was going to applaud you for being civil for once actually, but I'm sure you would have just taken that as condescending so I decided against it. Most of the time I just ignore you because you're on an emo hormonal rampage.
> 
> Also I never said I considered you vain or boring, I said other people are free to make that assumption if that's the only side of you that you let them see.



Ok, it read as if you were calling me vain and boring though.  For what it's worth I was on the wrong dose of hormones for most of 2010, hopefully I'm on the right dose now but I haven't been able to see my endocrinologist again so I couldn't tell you for sure.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Whoa whoa there folks, let's not get this thread to turn to shit.


----------



## Nox Luna (Jan 29, 2011)

FtM here, dunno when i'll be able to start therapy and such.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Whoa whoa there folks, let's not get this thread to turn to shit.


 
How exactly does Brace and I having a discussion 'turn the thread to shit'?

Edit: I hurped so hard I derped.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

Zaraphayx said:


> How exactly does Brazen and I having a discussion 'turn the thread to shit'?


 
Wait I'm Brazen now?  Well actually, that would explain a lot.  Thanks twist ending!


----------



## Aleu (Jan 29, 2011)

Wait, we have TWO Brazens now? Damn. What happened while I was knocked out?


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 29, 2011)

Brace said:


> Wait I'm Brazen now?  Well actually, that would explain a lot.  Thanks twist ending!


 
Sorry, two different threads and your names only have a 2 letter difference, it's an easy mistake. :V


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> What you consider ignorance is my opinion. It might as well be just an ignorant hate comment, but it's still my opinion.
> Feel free to do what you wish for with your body, I oppose the idea.


 
It doesn't fucking matter what you think of someone changing their gender. Does someone getting a sex change kill your dog? kill your family? rob your house? make you lose your job? Does it make YOU get a sex change? 
No, so shut up.


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

& hormones are pills. Testosterone and estrogen. 
I don't know too much about transgenders and surgery or pills, I've learned everything I know from my bff, who is a MtF.
It takes a lot of $$ and time to get into a gender/form they're actually comfortable with. They respect your gender and how you see yourself, so you should respect theirs.

Now I'm not sure if hormones can be injected or not.. idk about that. I'm still kinda new to learning this shit as I think I'm finally comfortable actually knowing my bff of 5-6 years is a MtF. At first I was all UGH THAT'S GROSS, DON'T DO THAT but then when I *actually found out for sure* I'm like.. wait wat. His/her gender didn't matter to me the 5 years I've been bffs with him... why would it matter now?
And so we're still bffs


----------



## Monster. (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Clayton said:


> It doesn't fucking matter what you think of someone changing their gender. Does someone getting a sex change kill your dog? kill your family? rob your house? make you lose your job? Does it make YOU get a sex change?
> No, so shut up.


 This. So much this. My button is hiding. :C



Clayton said:


> Now I'm not sure if hormones can be injected or not.. idk about that.


 
I  think they can; from what I've heard from a few MtF (or vise versa)  friends, hormones can be injected. I think they said something along the  lines of it being more effective than pills (well, when it comes to  estrogen/testosterone blockers). I'm not 100% sure, though, I'm just  going off of what I've been told.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Clayton said:


> & hormones are pills. Testosterone and estrogen.
> I don't know too much about transgenders and surgery or pills, I've learned everything I know from my bff, who is a MtF.
> It takes a lot of $$ and time to get into a gender/form they're actually comfortable with. They respect your gender and how you see yourself, so you should respect theirs.
> 
> ...


Yay Clayton!

Hormones can be taken different ways. Shots, pills, gels, etc. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I know the preferred way for testosterone (at least in the US) is injection. From what I understand/know the hormones for MtF are generally pills.

Also, I LEAVE AND DO SHIT AND NOW WE HAVE TWO BRAZENS AND SUCH!? FUCK.



CannonFodder said:


> Also I didn't know there were so many transgender on FaF.


I noticed more and more transfolk coming out of the woodwork on FAF lately. I figured I would make this thread since it seemed that the population was large enough to warrant so.


----------



## Monster. (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> Hormones can be taken different ways. Shots, pills, gels, etc. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I know the preferred way for testosterone (at least in the US) is injection. From what I understand/know the hormones for MtF are generally pills.


 
Yeah, that's what I was told. Does it really matter how someone gets the hormones, though? As in are shots more effective than pills or vise versa?


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> For which reason is a person supposed to be mentally stable enough?
> Are the risks mental, physical, or both?
> 
> By injecting hormones, will the body truly get a different shape? I know that facial hair and voice are changed upon hormones, but I doubt that a complete body shape will form out of it.


 The individual has to pass a psychological evaluation and that.
For the ones that do pass the intensive evaluation are deemed to be unsafe to continue as their born sex, basically if you are deemed to be let to get a sex change that means the risks are worth it.  There are people with degrees specifically towards gender identity, I'm pretty sure people who go to college specifically for this for years are qualified.
It takes a while, but yes you do get a different shape, but the skeletal structure stays the same.
Facial hair has to be removed, voice you have to train to.

So pretty much you're 0 for 7.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

Injected estrogen combined with oral estrogen is apparently the only way of achieving cis-girl levels of estrogen, but at the same time, effective feminization isn't correlated strictly with estrogen levels.  Take that for what it's worth (likely not a lot).


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> Yay Clayton!
> 
> Hormones can be taken different ways. Shots, pills, gels, etc. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I know the preferred way for testosterone (at least in the US) is injection. From what I understand/know the hormones for MtF are generally pills.
> I noticed more and more transfolk coming out of the woodwork on FAF lately. I figured I would make this thread since it seemed that the population was large enough to warrant so.


 Yay Clayton!
Shots are more effective, but it's a shot.
Thanks for the thread.


Gaz said:


> This. So much this. My button is hiding. :C
> 
> I  think they can; from what I've heard from a few MtF (or vise versa)  friends, hormones can be injected. I think they said something along the  lines of it being more effective than pills (well, when it comes to  estrogen/testosterone blockers). I'm not 100% sure, though, I'm just  going off of what I've been told.


 You're correct.


Gaz said:


> Yeah, that's what I was told. Does it really matter how someone gets the hormones, though? As in are shots more effective than pills or vise versa?


 Shots are more effective, but would you want to get a shot every month for the rest of your life?


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Shots are more effective, but would you want to get a shot every month for the rest of your life?



I would if I could afford it.  If I could afford to self-medicate that way I would do it even.  I could pretend to be Harley except with a chemical with a higher LD50/AD50!


----------



## Aleu (Jan 29, 2011)

If I wanted to transition, I wouldn't want injections...because fuck needles.


----------



## Brace (Jan 29, 2011)

I've actually enjoyed needles after a fashion ever since I spent a year donating plasma.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Shots are currently more affective HOWEVER testosterone gels are becoming more popular as they give a more even level of testosterone instead of every other week injections.

Yes, I'm going to be stabbed in the ass/thighs every other week. For many, many years. I do not know if I will be on testosterone for the rest of my life but I do know there will be a time when I am not since I want children.

And that statement probably just opened a whole new can of worms.

Also, you're quite welcome, Cannon. <3


----------



## RayO_ElGatubelo (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> Yes, I'm going to be stabbed in the ass/thighs every other week.



Oh murr


----------



## foxmusk (Jan 29, 2011)

i was just thinking of writing a thread about this because i have been fucking scared to talk about it lately.

nongendered here, and apparently the only one. i still have no idea how to talk about it, though.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i was just thinking of writing a thread about this because i have been fucking scared to talk about it lately.
> 
> nongendered here, and apparently the only one. i still have no idea how to talk about it, though.


 Hey you can talk about it.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i was just thinking of writing a thread about this because i have been fucking scared to talk about it lately.
> 
> nongendered here, and apparently the only one. i still have no idea how to talk about it, though.


 You have my messanger if you want to spew random shit at me in private. I certainly don't mind.

You can always start with why you feel that way.


----------



## foxmusk (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Hey you can talk about it.



i'm terrified to, honestly, because i know that if someone jabs at me i will probably get really upset.



skittle said:


> You have my messanger if you want to spew random shit at me in private. I certainly don't mind.
> 
> You can always start with why you feel that way.


 
i'll be on AIM soon if you'd like to listen.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i'm terrified to, honestly, because i know that if someone jabs at me i will probably get really upset.
> 
> i'll be on AIM soon if you'd like to listen.


 If anyone jabs at you, ignore them. I really want this thread to be a safe haven of sorts for the transgendered folks here on FAF.
My ears, well technically eyes, are always open. <3


----------



## foxmusk (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> If anyone jabs at you, ignore them. I really want this thread to be a safe haven of sorts for the transgendered folks here on FAF.
> My ears, well technically eyes, are always open. <3


 
i am on aim now if you'd like to talkkk


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i'm terrified to, honestly, because i know that if someone jabs at me i will probably get really upset.


 Honestly only a worthless sack of crap of a person would do that.

I'd talk to you to on chat, but I've been avoiding my chat cause of my ex.


----------



## foxmusk (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Honestly only a worthless sack of crap of a person would do that.
> 
> I'd talk to you to on chat, but I've been avoiding my chat cause of my ex.


 
i thought the same thing of people jabbing at my eating disorder but they ate that up. i'm just really afraid to talk about it much.

i mean, there's always FAF notes if you wouldn't mind listening.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i thought the same thing of people jabbing at my eating disorder but they ate that up. i'm just really afraid to talk about it much.
> 
> i mean, there's always FAF notes if you wouldn't mind listening.


 No one is going to force you to talk about it out in the open if you aren't comfortable with it. Just know there are people who will listen. <3


So guys, I've been mistaken as MtF quite a bit... Any of you get that reverse identity?


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> So guys, I've been mistaken as MtF quite a bit... Any of you get that reverse identity?


 I've been mistaken for a guy several times, yes. 

Though it's usually when I'm wearing a a jacket and some sort of hat. 

If this is relevant. .-.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Willow said:


> I've been mistaken for a guy several times, yes.
> 
> Though it's usually when I'm wearing a a jacket and some sort of hat.
> 
> If this is relevant. .-.


 I wish I pass more than I do.. Doesn't help 95% of my wardrobe is female clothes and I'm a massive faggot with faux diamond studded Gucci glasses.
The Hot Topic dude looked at me weird when I corrected him that I was male. Haha.


----------



## Willow (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> I wish I pass more than I do.. Doesn't help 95% of my wardrobe is female clothes and I'm a massive faggot with faux diamond studded Gucci glasses.
> The Hot Topic dude looked at me weird when I corrected him that I was male. Haha.


 I don't have a lot of women's clothes and most of my stuff is really loose fitting.

I'm too lazy to correct people when they call me sir or something though, because I really don't care.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> So guys, I've been mistaken as MtF quite a bit... Any of you get that reverse identity?


 A while back I was mistaken for being a woman, honestly that made me happy.


----------



## Ratte (Jan 29, 2011)

I don't think people know what to make of me anymore.  They just kind of think I'm a stoner.  :V

I want to get a binder to make my tits less obvious.  I would get a haircut but I look like a retard with short hair.  I already wear men's clothing (much more comfortable holy fuck) so that's taken care of.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Ratte said:


> I don't think people know what to make of me anymore.  They just kind of think I'm a stoner.  :V
> 
> I want to get a binder to make my tits less obvious.  I would get a haircut but I look like a retard with short hair.  I already wear men's clothing (much more comfortable holy fuck) so that's taken care of.


 As a larger chested person, binders help with me. I have 34Cs. I'm 5'1, 100lbs. Wtf.

There is a binder exchange program that helps people who can't afford them get them but there are VERY strict guidelines.


----------



## Jude (Jan 29, 2011)

I could never be transgendered, even if I wanted to be :I


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Jude said:


> I could never be transgendered, even if I wanted to be :I


 ....It's not a choice. There is no want involved in it.

However, why not?


----------



## Jude (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> ....It's not a choice. There is no want involved in it.
> 
> However, why not?


 
Yeah, yeah, I understand.

Really its only because of my really stocky build and "manish" looks. It wouldn't physically work for me.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> ....It's not a choice. There is no want involved in it.
> 
> However, why not?


 Yeah, actually when I was dealing with all my irl shit(not going to go into that again) I knew I was trans, it's just that if I ever told them it would go,
"So you're trans huh?"
"Ye- *BANG* *dead*

On the plus side after all the shit my mom's put me through and how undeniably guilty she is, she just wants me to be happy, unlike how most parents want a normal kid.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

I apologize in advance for the ignorance.

Look I have no problem with the Transgendered. What one identifies does not affect me, nor does it make the person any less. However it does acknowledge that there are such things as gender identities apart from the ones society imposes on us. As someone who fights for gender equality that's kind of against my very liberal principles.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> I apologize in advance for the ignorance.
> 
> Look I have no problem with the Transgendered. What one identifies does not affect me, nor does it make the person any less. However it does acknowledge that there are such things as gender identities apart from the ones society imposes on us. As someone who fights for gender equality that's kind of against my very liberal principles.


 Why not just fight for equality in general then?


----------



## Ratte (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> I apologize in advance for the ignorance.
> 
> Look I have no problem with the Transgendered. What one identifies does not affect me, nor does it make the person any less. However it does acknowledge that there are such things as gender identities apart from the ones society imposes on us. As someone who fights for gender equality that's kind of against my very liberal principles.


 
Uh, what.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> I apologize in advance for the ignorance.
> 
> Look I have no problem with the Transgendered. What one identifies does not affect me, nor does it make the person any less. However it does acknowledge that there are such things as gender identities apart from the ones society imposes on us. As someone who fights for gender equality that's kind of against my very liberal principles.


 So... Why not fight for equality of ALL genders?
By saying you are fighting for the equality of the male/female genders leaves out a good chunk of us.
I'm just wondering, how does that even go against your principles if you are fighting for gender equality?


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm trying to say that the concept of gender in of itself is limiting to individualism. In my opinion at least.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> I'm trying to say that the concept of gender in of itself is limiting to individualism. In my opinion at least.


 I concur. At least, when it comes down to BINARY gender.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> I'm trying to say that the concept of gender in of itself is limiting to individualism. In my opinion at least.


 I think you mean gender binary there.
Being trans isn't solely mtf or ftm, there's a whole bunch of other groups also.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> I concur. At least, when it comes down to BINARY gender.


 


CannonFodder said:


> I think you mean gender binary there.
> Being trans isn't solely mtf or ftm, there's a whole bunch of other groups also.


 
No. You are saying that there are traits that only specific genders, binary and none binary embody. I don't like that.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> No. You are saying that there are traits that only specific genders, binary and none binary embody. I don't like that.


 No we're not.

Being transgender, at least for me, is a PHYSICAL thing. I'm anything but 'male' gender wise.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> No. You are saying that there are traits that only specific genders, binary and none binary embody. I don't like that.


 There's also nongendered.


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i'm terrified to, honestly, because i know that if someone jabs at me i will probably get really upset.


 Unless someone in the thread is related to you or your friend IRL, your gender doesn't effect them personally.


----------



## Monster. (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Shots are more effective, but would you want  to get a shot every month for the rest of your life?


 
No thanks. ._.



HarleyRoadkill said:


> i was just thinking of writing a thread about this because i have been fucking scared to talk about it lately.
> 
> nongendered here, and apparently the only one. i still have no idea how to talk about it, though.


 
Well, what exactly scares you to talk about it?


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

HarleyRoadkill said:


> i'm terrified to, honestly, because i know that if someone jabs at me i will probably get really upset.
> .





HarleyRoadkill said:


> i thought the same thing of people jabbing  at my eating disorder but they ate that up. i'm just really afraid to  talk about it much.


 Harley said why.
Don't try to force it out of it. It doesn't want to talk about it, at least not yet.


----------



## Monster. (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> Harley said why.
> Don't try to force it out of it. It doesn't want to talk about it, at least not yet.


 
Oh, I didn't even see those. Sorry, Harley; I'm not trying to force anything out of him and don't plan to; it's on his own time, of course.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Oh, I didn't even see those. Sorry, Harley; I'm not trying to force anything out of him and don't plan to; it's on his own time, of course.


 Harley asked me to refer to it, as well, it or they.
Therefore, any references to Harley shall be done in such a manner in respect of its wishes.

Though I must admit I will have to get used to using it as a pronoun myself.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> No we're not.
> 
> Being transgender, at least for me, is a PHYSICAL thing. I'm anything but 'male' gender wise.


Oh, then whatever. I just don't understand the compulsion to have opposite sex gentialia for its own sake but I'm not transgendered and I'm not meant to. As long as it's not behavioral then that's fine.



CannonFodder said:


> There's also nongendered.


 And that's still a category.


----------



## Monster. (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> Harley asked me to refer to it, as well, it or they.
> Therefore, any references to Harley shall be done in such a manner in respect of its wishes.
> 
> Though I must admit I will have to get used to using it as a pronoun myself.


 
That's going to be hard, but out of respect:

"Sorry, Harley; I'm not trying to force anything out of it and don't plan to. it's on its own time, of course."


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> Oh, then whatever. I just don't understand the compulsion to have opposite sex gentialia for its own sake but I'm not transgendered and I'm not meant to. As long as it's not behavioral then that's fine.
> 
> 
> And that's still a category.


 No matter you do people will force people into categories. It is human nature to do so.
There is a lot to being trans than just the opposite genitalia. It is really hard to explain. It is a mix of social, physical, mental, personal...
It's just so hard to describe.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> No matter you do people will force people into categories. It is human nature to do so.
> There is a lot to being trans than just the opposite genitalia. It is really hard to explain. It is a mix of social, physical, mental, personal...
> It's just so hard to describe.


 And which is why the therapy is required for a sex change.
If it was something as simple as what browder said it'd be alot easier for us.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> No matter you do people will force people into categories. It is human nature to do so.
> There is a lot to being trans than just the opposite genitalia. It is really hard to explain. It is a mix of social, physical, mental, personal...
> It's just so hard to describe.


 
I think it's wrong that people treat decisions, social positions, speaking patterns, clothing etc. as male or female. To me a person is a person. Some people have two X chromosmes and some have the XY but everything else that goes with it shouldn't be divided human nature or no. We can be better.

And please try to explain. I'm not transgendered so I doubt I'll get it.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> I think it's wrong that people treat decisions, social positions, speaking patterns, clothing etc. as male or female. To me a person is a person. Some people have two X chromosmes and some have the XY but everything else that goes with it shouldn't be divided human nature or no. We can be better.
> 
> And please try to explain. I'm not transgendered so I doubt I'll get it.


 I still cannot personally put it into words. I've just identified all my life with is MALE. Obviously not the societal gender norms because I'm a cross-dressing faggot but just something about it. I've always envisioned myself as male, presented myself in ways as such. Wearing female clothes I always felt more like a cross-dresser than female. However, I do not despise my body and may not opt for any surgeries. I'm going through HRT, hopefully soon, to be able to better present myself as how I feel. Male.

That is my PERSONAL feelings. Everyone is different.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> I still cannot personally put it into words. I've just identified all my life with is MALE. Obviously not the societal gender norms because I'm a cross-dressing faggot but just something about it. I've always envisioned myself as male, presented myself in ways as such. Wearing female clothes I always felt more like a cross-dresser than female. However, I do not despise my body and may not opt for any surgeries. I'm going through HRT, hopefully soon, to be able to better present myself as how I feel. Male.
> 
> That is my PERSONAL feelings. Everyone is different.



Let's start there then. What is MALE to you? It's not something I've ever really thought about it to be honest.

EDIT
Type fall. I meant something else and my mistake just made the post sound douchey.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> And please try to explain. I'm not transgendered so I doubt I'll get it.


 The type that I am is I completely cannot handle the fact I'm a guy, being a woman is what would make me comfortable.  Imagine never ever wanting to look in a mirror cause everytime you look at it you feel disgusted at how you look no matter what you do?
That's the best I could explain it.


----------



## Conker (Jan 29, 2011)

This is the most interesting thread on FAF right now. 

I really can't contribute to it though :[


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> The type that I am is I completely cannot handle the fact I'm a guy, being a woman is what would make me comfortable.  Imagine never ever wanting to look in a mirror cause everytime you look at it you feel disgusted at how you look no matter what you do?
> That's the best I could explain it.


 
That just makes it sound cosmetic then, but I get the impression that it's deeper then that.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> Let's start there then. What is MALE to you? It's not something I've ever really thought about it to be honest.
> 
> EDIT
> Type fall. I meant something else and my mistake just made the post sound douchey.


 Honestly, I don't know! Whatever the society says it is? That is where I have issues. I do not believe in gender norms/roles. Yet here I am identifying with SOMETHING intangible. It is something outside of sex/gender.
I see guys, ANY guy, gay, straight, bi, black, white, ANYTHING considered 'male', ANYWHERE and I feel I belong there.

...That answers noooothing.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> That just makes it sound cosmetic then, but I get the impression that it's deeper then that.


 It's deeper than that, but it's so complicated and not to mention what holds true for one trans doesn't always hold true for another person that is.
If I spent 10 hours explaining how I feel to you, then you'd just have a sound understanding of what type of trans I am.
Which is why gender therapists have to go to college for years.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> Honestly, I don't know! Whatever the society says it is? That is where I have issues. I do not believe in gender norms/roles. Yet here I am identifying with SOMETHING intangible. It is something outside of sex/gender.
> I see guys, ANY guy, gay, straight, bi, black, white, ANYTHING considered 'male', ANYWHERE and I feel I belong there.
> 
> ...That answers noooothing.


 No it doesn't but it does show the disconnect within social liberalism that I was talking about.

LIBERALITY PRIMUS: "Genders are just societal constructs that force men/women/variants  thereupon into inequality!"

LIBERALITY SECUNDA:"It's okay to be whatever gender you want! "


----------



## Monster. (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> That just makes it sound cosmetic then, but I get the impression that it's deeper then that.


 I see it like handedness. If you're strictly right-handed, then you know how hard it is to function a pencil with your left hand and vise versa.

People that are "gender fluid", I see as ambidextrous; they can go both ways and feel comfortable as either male or female.

(That's just my opinion, though)


----------



## Skittle (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> No it doesn't but it does show the disconnect within social liberalism that I was talking about.
> 
> LIBERALITY PRIMUS: "Genders are just societal constructs that force men/women/variants  thereupon into inequality!"
> 
> LIBERALITY SECUNDA:"It's okay to be whatever gender you want! "


 I honestly see gender as perfectly fine as long as it isn't forced onto someone.
I refute any set amount or numbers of genders too.
You are what you are.
I mean, you could be sex fluid, etc. but it doesn't sound as nice does it? Since sex is such a CONCRETE thing, male/female/intersexed it is a lot harder for people to see the variation than it is with gender.

I'm still talking in circles, aren't I?


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> No it doesn't but it does show the disconnect within social liberalism that I was talking about.
> 
> LIBERALITY PRIMUS: "Genders are just societal constructs that force men/women/variants  thereupon into inequality!"
> 
> LIBERALITY SECUNDA:"It's okay to be whatever gender you want! "


 If it's just a societal construct, what is wrong with* choosing* the societal construct?  Especially if that's what makes them comfortable and it's not forced upon them?


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

skittle said:


> I'm still talking in circles, aren't I?


 So am I. It's okay. I'll probably stop since I've said everything I think I feel about it.


CannonFodder said:


> If it's just a societal construct, what is wrong with* choosing* the societal construct?  Especially if that's what makes them comfortable and it's not forced upon them?


 Nothing, except that you still have the category. People should just do what they want. If you start putting behaviors into gender boxes then someone isn't going to fit no matter what the box. Plus it still implies difference and that difference is still linked to biological sex.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> So am I. It's okay. I'll probably stop since I've said everything I think I feel about it.
> 
> Nothing, except that you still have the category. People should just do what they want. If you start putting behaviors into gender boxes then someone isn't going to fit no matter what the box. Plus it still implies difference and that difference is still linked to biological sex.


 How can you say you're for equality when a group of people want something that doesn't fit into you dogmatic view of antisocietal construct?
You're talking about societal constructs being forced upon individuals, but the problem with your logic is that you are forcing your own views of antisocietal constructs onto others.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> How can you say you're for equality when a group of people want something that doesn't fit into you dogmatic view of antisocietal construct?
> You're talking about societal constructs being forced upon individuals, but the problem with your logic is that you are forcing your own views of antisocietal constructs onto others.


 Yes. 

Everyone forces tuff onto others. Some subtly by argument some unsubtly by simply being stronger. That's just how the world works. We want to change things for the better but none of us can ever agree on what _better_ is. I have no problem with the forcing. I just have problems with the ideologies.

But that's off topic. I think I've stated my view and I understand your's a bit better which is all I was trying to do in the first place.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 29, 2011)

Browder said:


> Yes.
> 
> Everyone forces tuff onto others. Some subtly by argument some unsubtly by simply being stronger. That's just how the world works. We want to change things for the better but none of us can ever agree on what _better_ is. I have no problem with the forcing. I just have problems with the ideologies.
> 
> But that's off topic. I think I've stated my view and I understand your's a bit better which is all I was trying to do in the first place.


 That's a fundamental flaw in society, the majority forces the societal norm onto minor groups.

Glbt in it's entirety violates the societal norm, see the problem?
The only way I could see society as a whole accepting glbt is to be included in the societal norm also.  Which is fucked up cause what you are hoping for probably will never come about.
Actually it is semi-on topic.


----------



## Browder (Jan 29, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> That's a fundamental flaw in society, the majority forces the societal norm onto minor groups.
> 
> Glbt in it's entirety violates the societal norm, see the problem?
> The only way I could see society as a whole accepting glbt is to be included in the societal norm also.  Which is fucked up cause what you are hoping for probably will never come about.
> Actually it is semi-on topic.



GLBT violates the  current social norm but that doesn't mean it's wrong in my mind. It's up to the powerful and the persuasive willing to fight for it to force it on the rest of society. Yes I use the word 'force' because things like diplomacy and gradual acceptance are just subtle exercises of power.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> The individual has to pass a psychological evaluation and that.
> For the ones that do pass the intensive evaluation are deemed to be unsafe to continue as their born sex, basically if you are deemed to be let to get a sex change that means the risks are worth it.  There are people with degrees specifically towards gender identity, I'm pretty sure people who go to college specifically for this for years are qualified.
> It takes a while, but yes you do get a different shape, but the skeletal structure stays the same.
> Facial hair has to be removed, voice you have to train to.
> ...



I thought that the psychological test was to ensure that after a transition, a patient would be safe and stable.
Although, the point of being unstable before it is logical and must have happened to some people.
Are only those who pass evaluation go to get a sex change?
I thought voice also slightly changes upon hormones, but it may require intensive training.

I am 0, pens. 
What I would like to ask, for example... Skittle, you mentioned you don't know the "male" you describe, and that you're only physcially transgender. Does that mean that you're unstatisfying with your body and what you wish for is a bulky, hairy, penis-having shape? 

Actually, sticking needles in your body constantly sounds as if you are damaging the body you're creating. Making holes.
Why not just extend the time of taking them(Which is already pretty much eternity) and take painless pills, which might as well have horrible side effects.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> I thought that the psychological test was to ensure that after a transition, a patient would be safe and stable.
> Although, the point of being unstable before it is logical and must have happened to some people.
> Are only those who pass evaluation go to get a sex change?
> I thought voice also slightly changes upon hormones, but it may require intensive training.
> ...


The therapy is to make sure that the transition is the right decision for the individual and that transitioning is what they need. 
For a MtF, hormones do not change the voice.

That is not what I wish for because that is not how I see myself. I am a girly faggot. I'm a scrawny little nerd. Basically how I see myself now minus the well...female primary and secondary sexual characteristics.
As for the pills, the testosterone pills they have available are shit. They are not nearly as effective as the injections. Honestly, taking T shots every other week is not nearly as bad as say someone with diabetes who has to inject themselves with insulin multiple times a day.


----------



## Brace (Jan 30, 2011)

I just want to say, some of you guys make so much more sense when I'm drunk.  But that's probably more a mark against you than anything.  lololololol

Edit: Also fuck gender.  I don't even know what "male" and "female" mean anymore.  I just want a cunt, or an inside out dick at least, and if I feel like prancing about like some sort of sissy victorian twat I'll do that and if I feel like cutting people open like a cyberpunk razor girl I'll do that and I don't feel like I have to justify that.  My brain sex is "female", whatever the fuck "female" means, it is what it is, things that are what they are mean nothing, but I make my life and this is what I'm making it, so suck my dick you cisgender fuck

:3


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 30, 2011)

Brace said:


> I just want to say, some of you guys make so much more sense when I'm drunk.  But that's probably more a mark against you than anything.  lololololol


 
Don't worry, no one else can read Cirno's posts either.


----------



## Kaizy (Jan 30, 2011)

Ive recently been considering myself Genderqueer after reviewing many occasions throughout my life and my current feelings of myself and my personality


----------



## Azure (Jan 30, 2011)

I was looking for the "It's Complicated" button, but I didn't find it


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 30, 2011)

> Edit: Also fuck gender.  I don't even know what "male" and "female" mean  anymore.  I just want a cunt, or an inside out dick at least, and if I  feel like prancing about like some sort of sissy victorian twat I'll do  that and if I feel like cutting people open like a cyberpunk razor girl  I'll do that and I don't feel like I have to justify that.  My brain sex  is "female", whatever the fuck "female" means, it is what it is, things  that are what they are mean nothing, but I make my life and this is  what I'm making it, so suck my dick you cisgender fuck
> 
> :3



... Apparently I missed a lot since I was last lurking this thread. Damn.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Jan 30, 2011)

Alfeo said:


> ... Apparently I missed a lot since I was last lurking this thread. Damn.


 
Brace is just being emotional again.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> The therapy is to make sure that the transition is the right decision for the individual and that transitioning is what they need.
> For a MtF, hormones do not change the voice.
> 
> That is not what I wish for because that is not how I see myself. I am a girly faggot. I'm a scrawny little nerd. Basically how I see myself now minus the well...female primary and secondary sexual characteristics.
> As for the pills, the testosterone pills they have available are shit. They are not nearly as effective as the injections. Honestly, taking T shots every other week is not nearly as bad as say someone with diabetes who has to inject themselves with insulin multiple times a day.



What do you need to do to reach satisfaction?
Is a behavioral change enough? After all, you're alpha male only mentally.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> What do you need to do to reach satisfaction?
> Is a behavioral change enough?


 I'm going to fully transition is what.
Oh hell no.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> What do you need to do to reach satisfaction?
> Is a behavioral change enough? After all, you're alpha male only mentally.


 I'm alpha male the moment I walk into a room. I DOMINATE!

Jokes aside, right now I feel hormones will be enough for me at the current moment. Physically. I am currently socially transitioning as well. Which means people are starting to call me by male pronouns and such.


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 30, 2011)

The only problem I'm having with social transitioning right now is, once someone "finds out" that I am not biologically male, they go straight into that _you're a sexual pervert trying to trick me_ mindset and immediately flip their shit. It doesn't help that I'm in high school, land of the ignorant and home of the emotionally unstable. 

I've already been in one fight with someone who decided to try and use their new found knowledge to humiliate and/or bait me in the middle of class.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> I'm going to fully transition is what.
> Oh hell no.


 
Have fun. Have caution. Two phrases, two meanings.
I didn't hear your reasons though, even though they're probably dumped in the last 10 pages, or in the first page.
When do you plan to do so?


skittle said:


> I'm alpha male the moment I walk into a room. I DOMINATE!
> 
> Jokes aside, right now I feel hormones will be enough for me at the current moment. Physically. I am currently socially transitioning as well. Which means people are starting to call me by male pronouns and such.


Do you think the more you take the hormones the more you'll need for true satisfaction? Like an american dream, you always want more and more.
I can see how it turns in the furture to be as such, you take hormones for a long time and say that it's not enough. Drugs, alchohol, anyone?
Although, not all people will figure that you're undergoing hormones until later, so only a closed circle of people currently calls you in such pronouns.
There will always be some person to call you by female pronouns, I am sure of it.


I am the omega male, secondary but still superb. Or what is this greek.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 30, 2011)

Alfeo said:


> The only problem I'm having with social transitioning right now is, once someone "finds out" that I am not biologically male, they go straight into that _you're a sexual pervert trying to trick me_ mindset and immediately flip their shit. It doesn't help that I'm in high school, land of the ignorant and home of the emotionally unstable.
> 
> I've already been in one fight with someone who decided to try and use their new found knowledge to humiliate and/or bait me in the middle of class.


 I was out as some kind of other sexuality that wasn't straight (no one knew what the fact I was, just that I was queer as queer can get). How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Being gay/bi in high school is a completely different can of worms than being trans. If you feel uncomfortable or threatened, as much as I know it hurts, wait.



Satellite One said:


> Have fun. Have caution. Two phrases, two meanings.
> I didn't hear your reasons though, even though they're probably dumped in the last 10 pages, or in the first page.
> When do you plan to do so?
> 
> ...


I've already met such adversity in my life with the pronouns. Sadly, they come from my boyfriend's mother who has taken to calling me some choice things such as it, whatever it is, misfit, that thing, etc. with the occasional female pronoun. Whoop! Honestly, if someone cannot be respectful of me and who I am, than I have no reason to associate with them unless I absolutely have to.
I do not know how I will feel in the future after taking hormones. Top surgery will be the furthest I go only because, as I stated before, I have NEVER had an inkling of doubt that I would ever go for bottom surgery. The options are just too horrible and I do not need that to pass as male to myself, my lovers, etc.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> Have fun. Have caution. Two phrases, two meanings.
> I didn't hear your reasons though, even though they're probably dumped in the last 10 pages, or in the first page.
> When do you plan to do so?


 I tried explaining it earlier on, failed to coherently explain it, to complicated.
Well I want to full time, but can't right now.
Since my job I'll have after college is fairly well paying, I'll be able to transition quickly.


----------



## Brace (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> I tried explaining it earlier on, failed to coherently explain it, to complicated.
> Well I want to full time, but can't right now.
> Since my job I'll have after college is fairly well paying, I'll be able to transition quickly.


 
What are you studying right now, and what degrees/certifications are you going for?


----------



## Kaizy (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

I do have to ask, what is genderfluid exactly?
Ive never heard that term before :U


----------



## Skittle (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Kaizy said:


> I do have to ask, what is genderfluid exactly?
> Ive never heard that term before :U


 You could feel male one day or female the next. Sometimes in the same day, etc.


----------



## Monster. (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Kaizy said:


> I do have to ask, what is genderfluid exactly?
> Ive never heard that term before :U


 
It's basically whether you feel more "boy" one day, but you feel "girl" another day; I think this is usually for people that are very comfortable as either male or female and so wouldn't go through the full change into the opposite sex.


----------



## Alfeo (Jan 30, 2011)

skittle said:


> I was out as some kind of other sexuality that wasn't straight (no one knew what the fact I was, just that I was queer as queer can get). How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Being gay/bi in high school is a completely different can of worms than being trans. If you feel uncomfortable or threatened, as much as I know it hurts, wait.



I'm going to turn 17 in three months. My social transition began towards the end of the last school year, continued through the summer, and is still going on now. There are entire classes of students that see me as male, simply because they have never asked and I have never said otherwise. The general student body does not know my female name because it's never used, not even by teachers. I don't feel uncomfortable or threatened on a normal day. I've been binding for months, my hair has remained shaved, my voice is naturally on the deep end for a biological female. Most days at school I feel wonderful.

But all of this started during my Sophomore year, meaning that people who knew me from middle school and Freshman year like to "correct" others when they use the wrong pronouns, and just in case others don't know they like to educate others about what my legal name is, and how long and pretty my hair used to be.

There is no "waiting" for me at this stage. That's practically going back and undoing all that I've already done.


----------



## Slyck (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm a dude and I'm mature enough to accept that and not have to feel suuuper speshuul by giving myself another label. However there are times that I look at myself in the mirror and want to barf at the fact I'm a guy but I can also accept who I am.

Besides, this whole 'genderqueer' thing for the most part just enforces stereotypical gender rolls.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 30, 2011)

Alfeo said:


> I'm going to turn 17 in three months. My social transition began towards the end of the last school year, continued through the summer, and is still going on now. There are entire classes of students that see me as male, simply because they have never asked and I have never said otherwise. The general student body does not know my female name because it's never used, not even by teachers. I don't feel uncomfortable or threatened on a normal day. I've been binding for months, my hair has remained shaved, my voice is naturally on the deep end for a biological female. Most days at school I feel wonderful.
> 
> But all of this started during my Sophomore year, meaning that people who knew me from middle school and Freshman year like to "correct" others when they use the wrong pronouns, and just in case others don't know they like to educate others about what my legal name is, and how long and pretty my hair used to be.
> 
> There is no "waiting" for me at this stage. That's practically going back and undoing all that I've already done.


 Do all your friends know you are trans or what? If it is people here and there, ignore them. I take it your school doesn't have locker rooms or anything?


----------



## Taralack (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Gaz said:


> Same here; sometimes, I feel like wearing high heels and a cute skirt. Other days, I want to go with big jeans and a comfy, ratty tee. Most of my days lean toward guy clothes, however.


 
Me too, but I don't own any heels or skirts or anything that normal society would consider "girly". The closest thing to girly I own is a women's cut Gir t-shirt. I used to be able to pass off as a guy but I can't anymore since I put on some weight since moving to Australia and my chest grew out. :c

But I don't mind it as much anymore, I have a bf who loves me for who I am and that's good enough. :3


----------



## Aleu (Jan 30, 2011)

Slyck said:


> I'm a dude and I'm mature enough to accept that and not have to feel suuuper speshuul by giving myself another label. However there are times that I look at myself in the mirror and want to barf at the fact I'm a guy but I can also accept who I am.
> 
> Besides, this whole 'genderqueer' thing for the most part just enforces stereotypical gender rolls.


 My stereotypical gender roll has butter. Sometimes I like to add some jelly on it when I'm feeling I need something different :3


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 30, 2011)

AleutheWolf said:


> My stereotypical gender roll has butter. Sometimes I like to add some jelly on it when I'm feeling I need something different :3


 That's actually a good analogy.


----------



## Kaizy (Jan 30, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> You could feel male one day or female the next. Sometimes in the same day, etc.


Excuse me while I change my vote


----------



## Aleu (Jan 30, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> That's actually a good analogy.


 I wasn't even trying. GO ME!


----------



## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Extreme amounts of dysphoria, how do you guys deal with it?
I've been having a lot of issues recently, specifically my chest. I don't know if it is me nitpicking or what but no matter what I do I always seem to notice it despite me binding. I guess the fact I don't pass 99% of the time is really starting to get to me too. I'm sure the bajillion other things going on my life right now aren't helping either and are probably manifesting in extreme dysphoria and self-loathing but who the fuck knows.
So enough woe is me...

How do you guys personally deal with it? You don't have to be FtM to answer... Anything helps.


----------



## greg-the-fox (Jan 31, 2011)

Is there a such thing as gender-curious lol?


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 31, 2011)

it doesnt matter if youre a woman, man, black, asian, italian or a herm
we are all white males on the inside, and that is what counts


----------



## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

greg-the-fox said:


> Is there a such thing as gender-curious lol?


 I guess so. I mean, you could count it as gender fluid?


----------



## CAThulu (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



AleutheWolf said:


> Yeah. That's what urban dictionary says anyway :V
> Makes sense though. There's a lot of times I don't want to be a girl then there's times I'm glad.



This is so true.   When I was growing up I wished I had been born a boy.  I attribute this to the fact that for the first 5 minutes of my life my mom insisted that I wasn't a girl and kept calling me a boy's name...which they later gave to my brother. 

Still...I enjoy being a girl, but there are sometimes I wish I was a guy or feel like I should be, you know?   Not enough to change genders though.  I think that this dichotomy sometimes gives me a  bit of an edge as a girl.  ^_^


----------



## Volkodav (Jan 31, 2011)

skittle said:


> I guess so. I mean, you could count it as gender fluid?


 
i think he probably means like.. "OOH I WONDER WHAT IT'D BE LIKE TO BE A GIRL!!" but not like a passing thing? like a genuine curiosity


----------



## CAThulu (Jan 31, 2011)

Clayton said:


> i think he probably means like.. "OOH I WONDER WHAT IT'D BE LIKE TO BE A GIRL!!" but not like a passing thing? like a genuine curiosity


 
Whenever I hear a guy is thinking this way, I'm pretty sure he's not thinking of the one week of the month where he'd have to suffer cramps, fluctuating hormones, and cravings for all things chocolate if he switched genders.


----------



## Azure (Jan 31, 2011)

Zaraphayx said:


> Brace is just being emotional again.


And yet, it's one of the best posts she's ever made. Fuck the sugar coating.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



skittle said:


> I've already met such adversity in my life with the pronouns. Sadly, they come from my boyfriend's mother who has taken to calling me some choice things such as it, whatever it is, misfit, that thing, etc. with the occasional female pronoun. Whoop! Honestly, if someone cannot be respectful of me and who I am, than I have no reason to associate with them unless I absolutely have to.
> I do not know how I will feel in the future after taking hormones. Top surgery will be the furthest I go only because, as I stated before, I have NEVER had an inkling of doubt that I would ever go for bottom surgery. The options are just too horrible and I do not need that to pass as male to myself, my lovers, etc.


You don't have to associate with them, but people who know less about you, such as your boyfriend's mother, perhaps, may as wel know your intentions but still call you in pronouns that fit your image. As long as you look and seem female, I guess most people will call you in such way. As you said, top surgery will lower the image, but you'd still cause some confusion with a remaining "inbetween" look. 



CannonFodder said:


> I tried explaining it earlier on, failed to coherently explain it, to complicated.
> Well I want to full time, but can't right now.
> Since my job I'll have after college is fairly well paying, I'll be able to transition quickly.


 
What do you plan to take as a career? Will any transition affect your chances in staying there? I guess so.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> What do you plan to take as a career? Will any transition affect your chances in staying there? I guess so.


 Here's a quick faqs, contrary to popular belief _*most*_ texans don't actually give a fuck about glbt.
Well unless someone starts talking about how their boyfriend scissored their anus last night with the runs, then yes texans would mind.


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Here's a quick faqs, contrary to popular belief _*most*_ texans don't actually give a fuck about glbt.
> Well unless someone starts talking about how their boyfriend boyfriend fucked/scissored their anus last night and they had/with the runs, then yes texans would mind.


 
I thought most Americans don't really care, and I really don't know about texans. Although, same to here, we seem to think less of people that are located in the south.
Although, regardless of the country, some jobs are pretty unisex while others aren't. If you're planning to  get paid high, then you're either doing something truly academic, or porn.


----------



## HyBroMcYenapants (Jan 31, 2011)

Even after reading this whole thread, my head can't stop spinning.


----------



## Oovie (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm just looking for clarification between transgender and transvestite, I never imagined having to learn these things until joining this fandom... Is it that although a transvestite adopts the behavior and dressing of the opposite sex, they still identify as their true gender? A transgender is similar, but identifies as that opposite gender? If someone wants to correct that I'd appreciate it.


----------



## Qoph (Jan 31, 2011)

I like having penis too much to be transsexual :<


----------



## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

Oovie said:


> I'm just looking for clarification between transgender and transvestite, I never imagined having to learn these things until joining this fandom... Is it that although a transvestite adopts the behavior and dressing of the opposite sex, they still identify as their true gender birth sex? A transgender is similar, but identifies as that opposite gender? If someone wants to correct that I'd appreciate it.



FIXED

Your statement is now basically correct, although there can be transgender transvestites.  Someone who transitions from female to male but continues to wear female clothing on occasion, for example.  IE, "cross-dressing" requires a definite frame of reference in the form of having a gender _opposite_ to the one a person is dressing as.  Whether that's the biological sex of a cis person or the target gender of a trans person is technically irrelevent.

To cross-dress, one by definition has to not identify with the gender they are dressing as.  Err, at least not primarily, or solely.  This kind of gets into murky territory with genderqueer/genderfluid people who might have multiple genders or genders outside the binary.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



Satellite One said:


> I thought most Americans don't really care, and I really don't know about texans. Although, same to here, we seem to think less of people that are located in the south.
> Although, regardless of the country, some jobs are pretty unisex while others aren't. If you're planning to  get paid high, then you're either doing something truly academic, or porn.


 Academia doesn't pay well enough.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Oovie said:


> I'm just looking for clarification between transgender and transvestite, I never imagined having to learn these things until joining this fandom... Is it that although a transvestite adopts the behavior and dressing of the opposite sex, they still identify as their true gender? A transgender is similar, but identifies as that opposite gender? If someone wants to correct that I'd appreciate it.


 Transvestite wears women's clothing as a fetish.
Transgender people are mentally something other than their birth sex.



Satellite One said:


> You don't have to associate with them, but  people who know less about you, such as your boyfriend's mother,  perhaps, may as wel know your intentions but still call you in pronouns  that fit your image. As long as you look and seem female, I guess most  people will call you in such way. As you said, top surgery will lower  the image, but you'd still cause some confusion with a remaining  "inbetween" look.


I honestly do not mind the inbetween look. Androgyny is sexy as hell. I'm trying my best to not look and seem female but it certainly doesn't work most of the time, sadly.


----------



## Azure (Jan 31, 2011)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*



CannonFodder said:


> Academia doesn't pay well enough.


Is money your sole motivation?


----------



## Browder (Jan 31, 2011)

AleutheWolf said:


> My stereotypical gender roll has butter. Sometimes I like to add some jelly on it when I'm feeling I need something different :3


 
Yeah, it probably says something that I don't get this at all. And Slyck's point is valid but we've covered that ad nauseum. Besides I think you're answering in a way I'd fundamentally not be able to understand. 

What I'm interested is the amount of gay transexuals compared to the amount of gay gender-lucky (people born into their correct biological sex). The Gender Lucky guestimate one out of every ten but I don't know the ratio among transexuals.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Browder said:


> Yeah, it probably says something that I don't get this at all. And Slyck's point is valid but we've covered that ad nauseum. Besides I think you're answering in a way I'd fundamentally not be able to understand.
> 
> What I'm interested is the amount of gay transexuals compared to the amount of gay gender-lucky (people born into their correct biological sex). The Gender Lucky guestimate one out of every ten but I don't know the ratio among transexuals.


I don't know the ratio but I do know gay transmen are the minority.


----------



## Browder (Jan 31, 2011)

skittle said:


> I don't know the ratio but I do know gay transmen are the minority.


 To clarify, that would be you?

Also would you be willing to be in a relationship with another FTM?


----------



## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

I've heard estimates of the number of bi/lesbian transwomen range from 15% to 53%, but my sources are like, some random google result and 4chan /b/ so take that as you will.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Browder said:


> To clarify, that would be you?
> 
> Also would you be willing to be in a relationship with another FTM?


 I identify as a gay transman but I'm pansexual with a male preference.
And yes I would.


----------



## Browder (Jan 31, 2011)

Sorry if I come across as intrusive, but I have only met one transgendered person in my life and he's still in highschool. His parents are really supportive though and he's just gotten his breasts taken out.


----------



## Fenrari (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm probably going to offend someone with my comment. 

But I really don't understand why the LGBT even has the T in it. The first three are sexual preference and the latter is more related to gender and self-identification of such than sexual preference.


----------



## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

Fenrari said:


> I'm probably going to offend someone with my comment.
> 
> But I really don't understand why the LGBT even has the T in it. The first three are sexual preference and the latter is more related to gender and self-identification of such than sexual preference.


 
Commonality of struggle.  We all get called "faggots" just the same, it's pretty much only educated people that really understand the distinction, which means that there are shared social difficulties which stem from that ignorance.  Doesn't matter, the community is moving towards being GL(B) at the moment anyways, and 1/3rd of the GLB platform is accomplished (DADT repeal) with serious progress being made on the marriage and employment fronts, at least on the state level.  Once GLB peeps get the other 2/rds:

1. There won't really be a gay rights movement anymore, because gays will have rights
2. TG people will have no effective mechanism for lobbying for rights at all.  I mean, in theory GLBT actually means GLBT, and there are token efforts, but once the gays get theirs TG people are fucked.


----------



## Fenrari (Jan 31, 2011)

Brace said:


> Commonality of struggle.  We all get called "faggots" just the same, it's pretty much only educated people that really understand the distinction, which means that there are shared social difficulties which stem from that ignorance.  Doesn't matter, the community is moving towards being GL(B) at the moment anyways, and 1/3rd of the GLB platform is accomplished (DADT repeal) with serious progress being made on the marriage and employment fronts, at least on the state level.  Once GLB peeps get the other 2/rds:
> 
> 1. There won't really be a gay rights movement anymore, because gays will have rights
> 2. TG people will have no effective mechanism for lobbying for rights at all.  I mean, in theory GLBT actually means GLBT, and there are token efforts, but once the gays get theirs TG people are fucked.


 
Well like I said, I don't intentionally mean to offend anyone. I personally don't have anything against trans-gender people, though the same can't be said about certain individuals within that community. In the end we're all people, even if we realize that we have our share of differences.


----------



## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Browder said:


> Sorry if I come across as intrusive, but I have only met one transgendered person in my life and he's still in highschool. His parents are really supportive though and he's just gotten his breasts taken out.


 It's ok. At least you aren't being ignorant about it and are taking what we are saying to heart and learning. Education, education, education!



Fenrari said:


> I'm probably going to offend someone with my comment.
> 
> But I really don't understand why the LGBT even has the T in it. The  first three are sexual preference and the latter is more related to  gender and self-identification of such than sexual preference.


 I, personally, have no idea. I can kind of understand it since it falls under a 'queer' umbrella with queer meaning not the norm. As someone who fits under the GLB part and just happens to be trans it makes sense.
I mean I can see from an uneducated standpoint that a heterosexual transman can be seen as a lesbian yet a gay transman is still gay. I might just be grasping straws for some kind of excuse.
Transpeople are completely excluded even from the gay community. Despite being a gay transman I still face a lot of issues with being felt as a fake and such as Nylak showed towards transwomen.
Honestly it is GLB............................................... t


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## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

Bisexuals get more than their fair share of hate as well.  Honestly, my main rationale for having it be GLBT is pure opportunism.  DADT repeal went through without TG provisions, and marriage reform does nothing for TG people who can already mostly marry.  If ENDA passes without TG protection (as it is liable to), it's going to be another 50 years before TG people have workplace protection or the ability to serve in the military (and I don't mean openly, mind you, but AT ALL).  Whereas if TG privisions are included in ENDA then yeah, it might slow down workplace protection for GLB peeps for a decade, but at least I'll have rights in my lifetime.  If that seems selfish, fuck off.  This is politics, plain and simple.


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## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Brace said:


> Bisexuals get more than their fair share of hate as well.  Honestly, my main rationale for having it be GLBT is pure opportunism.  DADT repeal went through without TG provisions, and marriage reform does nothing for TG people who can already mostly marry.  If ENDA passes without TG protection (as it is liable to), it's going to be another 50 years before TG people have workplace protection or the ability to serve in the military (and I don't mean openly, mind you, but AT ALL).  Whereas if TG privisions are included in ENDA then yeah, it might slow down workplace protection for GLB peeps for a decade, but at least I'll have rights in my lifetime.  If that seems selfish, fuck off.  This is politics, plain and simple.


 http://www.ksnt.com/news/local/stor...-Ordinance-Debate/16nGkBUaBEGFIapgBI-Jsw.cspx
It passed I believe but they are still trying to figure out how to define gender identity.
Also, a lot of places I've applied for work have gender identity covered by their company policy however, that could be just bullshit since there is not government enforcement behind it.


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## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

That's on the state (city?) level.  ENDA is federal.


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## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Brace said:


> That's on the state (city?) level.  ENDA is federal.


 I know, I am just saying. It's a city level but it is a start, no?


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## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

skittle said:


> I know, I am just saying. It's a city level but it is a start, no?



Anything less than federal level protection is a joke.  Yes it's a start, but leaving it up to the individual states is basically a declaration that it isn't a human rights issue, that TG concerns are invalid (even in comparison to GLB concerns) and that TG people are second class citizens.


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## Skittle (Jan 31, 2011)

Brace said:


> Anything less than federal level protection is a joke.  Yes it's a start, but leaving it up to the individual states is basically a declaration that it isn't a human rights issue, that TG concerns are invalid (even in comparison to GLB concerns) and that TG people are second class citizens.


 I know this but don't ruin my moment of hope!

DON'T DO IT BRACE!


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## Brace (Jan 31, 2011)

OK SORRY FUCK >_>


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## Skittle (Feb 1, 2011)

Figured I would put this here. Also, totally not a shameless thread bump since it is totally relevant. :3c

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html


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## Monster. (Feb 1, 2011)

skittle said:


> Figured I would put this here. Also, totally not a shameless thread bump since it is totally relevant. :3c
> 
> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html


 
Now _that_ is interesting.


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## Skittle (Feb 4, 2011)

Injustice at Every Turn: A Report of the National Transgender Discrimination Survery
http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

It is a 228 pg .pdf document that I skimmed through.

Let me just say.. The statistics are disgusting.


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## Monster. (Feb 4, 2011)

skittle said:


> Injustice at Every Turn: A Report of the National Transgender Discrimination Survery
> http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds
> 
> It is a 228 pg .pdf document that I skimmed through.
> ...


Why do you bother upsetting yourself with things like that? Like furries, transgendered/nongendered/gender fluid people are not going to be accepted. People _still_ can't accept gays as human beings. Perhaps it would be healthier if you stayed away from such negative things.


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## Skittle (Feb 4, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Why do you bother upsetting yourself with things like that? Like furries, transgendered/nongendered/gender fluid people are not going to be accepted. People _still_ can't accept gays as human beings. Perhaps it would be healthier if you stayed away from such negative things.


 I won't just sit there and plug my ears with my fingers going: LALALALALALALA.
As someone who is a future Human Rights major, I kinda need to know this stuff if I am going to spend my life fixing, changing, etc. these issues.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Why do you bother upsetting yourself with things like that? Like furries, transgendered/nongendered/gender fluid people are not going to be accepted. People _still_ can't accept gays as human beings. Perhaps it would be healthier if you stayed away from such negative things.


 "I thought what I would do is become one of those deaf mutes"


I hate it when people go, "well gays aren't accepted, why should you fight for your own equality too, that's just selfish".
So I should fight for glb rights and not my own?  I don't know about you, but it's glbt not glb.  When it comes down to glbt rights, fight for equality or go home and ignore reality.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> I won't just sit there and plug my ears with my fingers going: LALALALALALALA.
> As  someone who is a future Human Rights major, I kinda need to know this  stuff if I am going to spend my life fixing, changing, etc. these  issues.





CannonFodder said:


> "I thought what I would do is become one of those deaf mutes"
> I hate it when people go, "well gays aren't accepted, why should you fight for your own equality too".
> So I should fight for glb rights and not my own?  I don't know about you, but it's glbt not glb.  When it comes down to glbt rights, fight for equality or go home and ignore reality.


I'm not saying "Don't fight for your own equality", but I'm saying that it's not healthy to get so upset about it. I understand, it's ridiculous that people see transgendered people (or variations of that) being ridiculed and turned away and sometimes even targeted by sick people. But you know me enough, CF; you know I would never, ever tell someone to not fight for their rights. I'm saying that it's not fair to you guys to get so pissed off. That should just be fuel to fight harder.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I'm not saying "Don't fight for your own equality", but I'm saying that it's not healthy to get so upset about it. I understand, it's ridiculous that people see transgendered people (or variations of that) being ridiculed and turned away and sometimes even targeted by sick people. But you know me enough, CF; you know I would never, ever tell someone to not fight for their rights. I'm saying that it's not fair to you guys to get so pissed off. That should just be fuel to fight harder.


 Uhm Gaz, lemme put it this way when I was being abused by my step-dad his insurance would've covered sexual reassignment surgery and that(cause it was a specialty insurance company for high paid individuals in the company), but if I ever told him he would have killed me.  Not metaphorically or anything, he would have used his special ops training and killed me, because to him it was bad enough for his daughter to not give him grandchildren and viewed her as a abomination on the face of the earth.  Imagine if he knew I was transgender?

If I had told anyone I would've been one of those murder victims for transgender.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Uhm Gaz, lemme put it this way when I was being abused by my step-dad his insurance would've covered sexual reassignment surgery and that(cause it was a specialty insurance company for high paid individuals in the company), but if I ever told him he would have killed me.  Not metaphorically or anything, he would have used his special ops training and killed me, because to him it was bad enough for his daughter to not give him grandchildren and viewed her as a abomination on the face of the earth.  Imagine if he knew I was transgender?


CF, I understand. You were put through a lot of pain and you're still enduring it. But as I said: Instead of being upset, fight _harder_. Fight because your stepdad didn't let you fight back, not just tell people how you were put through pain and do nothing else. Instead of reading those articles or polls and just ARGH RAEGING because of how disgusting people really are when it comes to acceptance, use it as fuel. You seem to think that I'm telling you to stop fighting because it's a lost cause. It is certainly _not_. I am in full support-mode when it comes to fighting back, but I will not support you thinking that I'm telling you to just shut up and stop bitching about your stepdad.


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## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I'm not saying "Don't fight for your own equality", but I'm saying that it's not healthy to get so upset about it. I understand, it's ridiculous that people see transgendered people (or variations of that) being ridiculed and turned away and sometimes even targeted by sick people. But you know me enough, CF; you know I would never, ever tell someone to not fight for their rights. I'm saying that it's not fair to you guys to get so pissed off. That should just be fuel to fight harder.


 ..... It's not fair for us to get pissed over....

-Those who expressed a transgender identity or gender non-conformity while in grades K-12 reported alarming rates of harassment (78%), physical assault (35%) and sexual violence (12%); harassment was so severe that it led almost one-sixth (15%) to leave a school in K-12 settings or in higher education.

-Thirty-one percent (31%) of the sample reported harassment by teachers or staff, 5% reported physical assault by teachers or staff and 3% reported sexual assault by teachers or staff.

-One-fifth (19%) reported experiencing homelessness at some point in their lives because they were transgender or gender non-conforming; the majority of those trying to access a homeless shelter were harassed by shelter staff or residents (55%), 29% were turned away altogether, and 22% were sexually assaulted by residents or staff.

-Respondents experienced widespread abuse in the public sector, and were often abused at the hands of â€œhelpingâ€ professionals and government officials. One fifth (22%) were denied equal treatment by a government agency or official; 29% reported police harassment or disrespect; and 12% had been denied equal treatment or harassed by judges or court officials.

-Refusal of care: 19% of our sample reported being refused medical care due to their transgender or gender non-conforming status, with even higher numbers among people of color in the survey.

-Fifteen percent (15%) of our respondents reported a household income under $10,000/year, nearly four times the rate of this category for the general population. Those who lost a job due to bias lived at this level of poverty at six times the rate of the general population.

-Fifty percent (50%) of respondents reported experiencing harassment in the workplace.

-28% of respondents were subjected to harassment in medical settings and 2% were victims of violence in doctorâ€™s office.

- A staggering 41% of respondents reported attempting suicide compared to 1.6% of the general population, with unemployment, bullying in school, low household income and sexual and physical associated with even higher rates.

-The various forms of direct housing discrimination faced by respondents included 19% being denied a home or apartment and 11% being evicted because they were transgender or gender non-conforming.

-For those respondents who had attempted to access homeless shelters, 29% were turned away altogether, 42% were forced to stay in facilities designated for the wrong gender, and others encountered a hostile environment. Fifty-five percent (55%) reported being harassed, 25% were physically assaulted and 22% were sexually assaulted.

-Police services were the most highly problematic aspect of government services overall, with respondents reporting the highest rate of assault when attempting to access police services (6%), along with very high rates of harassment/disrespect (29%) and denial of equal service (20%).

-Forty percent (40%) of those who presented ID (when it was required in the ordinary course of life) that did not match their gender identity/expression reported being harassed and 3% reported being attacked or assaulted. Fifteen percent (15%) reported being asked to leave the setting in which they had presented incongruent identification.

Some of the little side quote/stories are just as disgusting and upsetting. This one in particular for me: â€œI did not pass as male, but I was obviously presenting as a masculine person at a nightclub. I kissed the cheek of my girlfriend at the time. â€¦ The security guard picked me up and carried me towards the door, kicked the door open with his foot and launched me out the door of the nightclub. I tumbled to the ground to find three police officers standing over me. One said, â€˜Do we have trouble here?â€™ The security guard said, â€˜The trouble is that this fucking lesbian needs to know what itâ€™s like to be with a man.â€™ They all started to laugh. â€˜I could show her,â€™ one police officer said. Just then my friends bolted through the door and instructed me to run. I stumbled to my feet and narrowly escaped the officerâ€™s hands. â€˜Fucking dykes! Donâ€™t come back here unless you wanna get fucked!â€™ one of the officers screamed as we ran off.â€

.... Now, tell me again that is it unhealthy for me to get pissed off at this.



Gaz said:


> CF, I understand. You were put through a lot of pain  and you're still enduring it. But as I said: Instead of being upset,  fight _harder_. Fight because your stepdad didn't let you fight  back, not just tell people how you were put through pain and do nothing  else. Instead of reading those articles or polls and just ARGH RAEGING  because of how disgusting people really are when it comes to acceptance,  use it as fuel. You seem to think that I'm telling you to stop fighting  because it's a lost cause. It is certainly _not_. I am in full  support-mode when it comes to fighting back, but I will not support you  thinking that I'm telling you to just shut up and stop bitching about  your stepdad.


 You need to KNOW the statistics before you can use them as fuel. Pulling random numbers and statistics out of your ass does nothing for your case or cause. I am going to do something about it. There is an anti-discrimination ordinance reading in my town on Tuesday to include sexual orientation and gender identity. You bet your ass I am going.
I'm also not becoming a Human Rights major for nothing.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> ..... It's not fair for us to get pissed over....
> 
> [Lots of info]
> 
> .... Now, tell me again that is it unhealthy for me to get pissed off at this.


You guys are totally blowing my words out of proportion. Yes - get upset. Get very upset. Hate those horrible people for thinking like that. But don't let it become an angry obsession. That is what I'm trying to say.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> CF, I understand. You were put through a lot of pain and you're still enduring it. But as I said: Instead of being upset, fight _harder_. Fight because your stepdad didn't let you fight back, not just tell people how you were put through pain and do nothing else. Instead of reading those articles or polls and just ARGH RAEGING because of how disgusting people really are when it comes to acceptance, use it as fuel. You seem to think that I'm telling you to stop fighting because it's a lost cause. It is certainly _not_. I am in full support-mode when it comes to fighting back, but I will not support you thinking that I'm telling you to just shut up and stop bitching about your stepdad.


 I have been fighting for the last five years, I've even been fighting for gay rights.
Gay rights is having some moderate success, albeit they are self-sabotaging, but cause of how little in comparison transgender is to the general population I doubt if transgender rights will ever even come close to succeeding.
What I find utterly disgusting is that even within the gay community there are people who want to stop transgender rights for the same reasons the general populace has.

Realistically the only thing I could hope for as transgender is to find someone supporting of me and pray to god that my work doesn't find out.


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## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> You guys are totally blowing my words out of proportion. Yes - get upset. Get very upset. Hate those horrible people for thinking like that. But don't let it become an angry obsession. That is what I'm trying to say.


 It can become an angry obsession as long as I don't just sit on my ass and fume. I plan on doing something about it, as I said. I am devoting my entire life to this.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I have been fighting for the last five years, I've even been fighting for gay rights.
> Gay rights is having some moderate success, albeit they are self-sabotaging, but cause of how little in comparison transgender is to the general population I doubt if transgender rights will ever even come close to succeeding.
> What I find utterly disgusting is that even within the gay community there are people who want to stop transgender rights for the same reasons the general populace has.
> 
> Realistically the only thing I could hope for as transgender is to find someone supporting of me and pray to god that my work doesn't find out.


I can't say that I agree; I think transgenders, gays, etc. are slowly but surely becoming part of society. I think you're winning; slow but steadily, the world is opening their eyes. It doesn't seem that way, but I feel it is. I already see such a change in how people react to finding out that their friends or family members are gay or transgendered. Hell, the other day, I met a guy who once hated his best friend for being gay; now, he and his friend are closer than ever because he realized being gay isn't wrong. It's just a choice. It's how someone is born (imo). I think there's progress. It's just not getting credited just yet because people only see the bad; they don't really look at the good unless there's no more bad to see. Y'know?



skittle said:


> It can become an angry obsession as long as I  don't just sit on my ass and fume. I plan on doing something about it,  as I said. I am devoting my entire life to this.


Then God bless you (this coming from someone who doesn't believe). I may be one person, but I have nothing but respect and support for what you're doing for yourself and a million other people.


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## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I can't say that I agree; I think transgenders, gays, etc. are slowly but surely becoming part of society. I think you're winning; slow but steadily, the world is opening their eyes. It doesn't seem that way, but I feel it is. I already see such a change in how people react to finding out that their friends or family members are gay or transgendered. Hell, the other day, I met a guy who once hated his best friend for being gay; now, he and his friend are closer than ever because he realized being gay isn't wrong. It's just a choice. It's how someone is born (imo). I think there's progress. It's just not getting credited just yet because people only see the bad; they don't really look at the good unless there's no more bad to see. Y'know?
> 
> Then God bless you (this coming from someone who doesn't believe). I may be one person, but I have nothing but respect and support for what you're doing for yourself and a million other people.


Sadly, while things are moving in leaps and bounds for the 'gay agenda' things seem to be moving backwards for being transgender. We are still denied basic rights in the most extreme ways, in school, housing, etc. We have our college loans and funding taken away for being transgendered, we are expelled from our schools, denied houses, shunned out of restaurants, hotels, etc. As far as I am away homosexuals generally don't go into a bathroom fearing having the cops called, being raped, beaten, etc. That is a day to day fear of mine, to go into the men's room and have someone find out I'm not physically male.
Being homosexual doesn't show on your driver's license. When you are pulled over and a cop sees inconsistencies with how you look and what your license says, your risks of being harassed, beaten, detained, etc. are raised substantially.
There is no T in the GLB(T) movement. If there is, you need a magnifying glass and some very fine tweezers to find it.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Then God bless you (this coming from someone who doesn't believe). I may be one person, but I have nothing but respect and support for what you're doing for yourself and a million other people.


 What I find sick is that I've met hypocritical people in the glbt community who claim to fight for equality, but in reality they only want "equality" for themselves.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> Sadly, while things are moving in leaps and bounds for the 'gay agenda' things seem to be moving backwards for being transgender. We are still denied basic rights in the most extreme ways, in school, housing, etc. We have our college loans and funding taken away for being transgendered, we are expelled from our schools, denied houses, shunned out of restaurants, hotels, etc. As far as I am away homosexuals generally don't go into a bathroom fearing having the cops called, being raped, beaten, etc. That is a day to day fear of mine, to go into the men's room and have someone find out I'm not physically male.
> Being homosexual doesn't show on your driver's license. When you are pulled over and a cop sees inconsistencies with how you look and what your license says, your risks of being harassed, beaten, detained, etc. are raised substantially.
> There is no T in the GLB(T) movement. If there is, you need a magnifying glass and some very fine tweezers to find it.


Well hopefully that will change very, very soon. While the world is fucked up beyond explanation as it is, I doubt it'll remain like this for much longer. At least I hope not...



CannonFodder said:


> What I find sick is that I've met  hypocritical people in the glbt community who claim to fight for  equality, but in reality they only want "equality" for  themselves.


I could care less about myself, really; if there's a God and It (I don't believe that God would only be a man) came to me and told me to choose, I'd choose you guys. I really, really would. In fact, I would _demand_ that It make it right for you, rather than waste anymore time and life on measly ol' me.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Well hopefully that will change very, very soon. While the world is fucked up beyond explanation as it is, I doubt it'll remain like this for much longer. At least I hope not...
> 
> I could care less about myself, really; if there's a God and It (I don't believe that God would only be a man) came to me and told me to choose, I'd choose you guys. I really, really would. In fact, I would _demand_ that It make it right for you, rather than waste anymore time and life on measly ol' me.


 I really wish Obama would stop sitting on the fence for fuck's sakes.  He is the one person that when it comes to something that effects millions of people such as glbt he should be the very last person to even think about not having a opinion.

Wow, that is amazing, you are probably the first person to have said this to me.


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## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Well hopefully that will change very, very soon. While the world is fucked up beyond explanation as it is, I doubt it'll remain like this for much longer. At least I hope not...
> 
> I could care less about myself, really; if there's a God and It (I don't believe that God would only be a man) came to me and told me to choose, I'd choose you guys. I really, really would. In fact, I would _demand_ that It make it right for you, rather than waste anymore time and life on measly ol' me.


 <3 As someone who believes in God (yet no set religion), I believe everyone is put here for a reason or a cause. Does that mean they will actually fulfill it or do it? Obviously not. While it sucks to no end, I personally believe I was born transgender for a reason.
I really, REALLY want to work with GLBT youth. Insert the whole the kids are our future, blah blah.  I remember growing up with no support, no understanding, etc. I don't want that to continue in anyway. Doesn't mean I'm just going to focus on them, no. There is a much, much larger picture there that needs to be fixed..

I highly doubt in my lifetime I will see any radical changes. Sure there will be steps but I know full acceptance, if even TOLERANCE, will be seen in my lifetime. Yet, I will do my best. I've seen too many of my friends in ALL sections of GLBT hurt, discriminated against, killed, hurt, driven to suicide, etc. My life would be a waste if I didn't put my hatred, my anger, etc. towards something.



CannonFodder said:


> What I find sick is that I've met  hypocritical people in the glbt community who claim to fight for  equality, but in reality they only want "equality" for  themselves.


 This is why I tell people I honestly have no room to judge people. I do not want people to judge me so I do not judge them. Just because I may not agree with you, doesn't mean I won't fight for your rights too.
Westboro Baptist Church sickens me as it does most people. However, they have a right to say what they say, etc. While I may not AGREE with it, I will not try to stifle their rights to free speech even if they try to stifle mine.... If that makes any sense? I'm honestly a peaceful, love everyone, kind of dude. Haha.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I really wish Obama would stop sitting on  the fence for fuck's sakes.  He is the one person that when it comes to  something that effects millions of people such as glbt he should be the  very last person to even think about not having a opinion.


I'm hoping he eventually gets to work on that. He's been working hard to clean up Bush's mess, at least.


> Wow, that is amazing, you are probably the first person to have said this to me.


Now that makes me sad. :C


skittle said:


> <3 As someone who believes in God (yet no set religion), I believe everyone is put here for a reason or a cause. Does that mean they will actually fulfill it or do it? Obviously not. While it sucks to no end, I personally believe I was born transgender for a reason.
> I really, REALLY want to work with GLBT youth. Insert the whole the kids are our future, blah blah.  I remember growing up with no support, no understanding, etc. I don't want that to continue in anyway. Doesn't mean I'm just going to focus on them, no. There is a much, much larger picture there that needs to be fixed..


I believe everyone has a right, a privilege, and a reason to exist. Transgendered/gay folk exist because they're beautiful people. They accept because they know what it's like to not be accepted. At least that's my opinion.


> I highly doubt in my lifetime I will see any radical changes. Sure there will be steps but I know full acceptance, if even TOLERANCE, will be seen in my lifetime. Yet, I will do my best. I've seen too many of my friends in ALL sections of GLBT hurt, discriminated against, killed, hurt, driven to suicide, etc. My life would be a waste if I didn't put my hatred, my anger, etc. towards something.


I hope when I'm old and maybe have a million and one kids/grandkids/great grandkids running around, all loving on each other and gays and transgendered, I'll die when there's at least tolerance. But I can only hope.


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## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I'm hoping he eventually gets to work on that. He's been working hard to clean up Bush's mess, at least.
> Now that makes me sad. :C
> I believe everyone has a right, a privilege, and a reason to exist. Transgendered/gay folk exist because they're beautiful people. They accept because they know what it's like to not be accepted. At least that's my opinion.
> I hope when I'm old and maybe have a million and one kids/grandkids/great grandkids running around, all loving on each other and gays and transgendered, I'll die when there's at least tolerance. But I can only hope.


 I wish that was the truth. You have no idea how much hate the GLB community harbors against gays. Straight FtMs are 'traitors' or 'taking the easy way out'. Gay MtFs are 'fakes', 'perverts', etc. Gay FtMs aren't 'men', 'confused straight women'. Straight MtFs are just effeminate faggots.
All this from the GLB community and more.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I'm hoping he eventually gets to work on that. He's been working hard to clean up Bush's mess, at least.
> Now that makes me sad. :C


 He'll probably do something in his second term, don't get your hopes up though.  My guess is he'll sign into passing a national anti-discrimination work law for glbt.  I'd doubt gay marriage and such will come to a vote this early on.

What are you surprised?


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> I wish that was the truth. You have no idea how much hate the GLB community harbors against gays. Straight FtMs are 'traitors' or 'taking the easy way out'. Gay MtFs are 'fakes', 'perverts', etc. Gay FtMs aren't 'men', 'confused straight women'. Straight MtFs are just effeminate faggots.
> All this from the GLB community and more.


I have an idea; my uncle - very open about his gayness - has plenty of friends and enemies. A lot of transgenders hate him because he's so openly accepted by gays and straights alike; sometimes, he comes home with a story about how one of his transgendered friends kicked him out of a party simply because he's so loved. It happens to all his gay friends, too. They have to strategize just to have a good party.



CannonFodder said:


> He'll probably do something in his second  term, don't get your hopes up though.  My guess is he'll sign into  passing a national anti-discrimination work law for glbt.  I'd doubt gay  marriage and such will come to a vote this early on.


We can hope; afterall, people fought hard to even make him our president.



> What are you surprised?


I'm not surprised at all; I'm just sad.


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## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> We can hope; afterall, people fought hard to even make him our president.
> 
> I'm not surprised at all; I'm just sad.


 It's a realistic estimate, because the republican party during the congressional election saw politicians try and steal away the gay vote.  Nearly 40% of them voted for republicans, probably during Obama's second term they will try this again and with the democratic party already having a "stance" of pro-gay rights there wouldn't be enough opposition to kill it.  It may come close, but chances are it would pass.

People need to stop flinging around, "I'm for equality" if they just want it for themselves.


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## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> It's a realistic estimate, because the republican party during the congressional election saw politicians try and steal away the gay vote.  Nearly 40% of them voted for republicans, probably during Obama's second term they will try this again and with the democratic party already having a "stance" of pro-gay rights there wouldn't be enough opposition to kill it.  It may come close, but chances are it would pass.


Ugh. I hate politics as it is, but those bastards are just the cruelest people.



> People need to stop flinging around, "I'm for equality" if they just want it for themselves.


Couldn't agree more.


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Ugh. I hate politics as it is, but those bastards are just the cruelest people.
> 
> Couldn't agree more.


 Problem is we have far to many politicians.
If it was up to me we'd only have about 1/10 of the politicians we have now, instead of mayors and that they would be life long appointees by a council deeming who is most qualified.  So in the end you'd only vote for your congressman and governor and president and that's it.  Also nobody would get to choose their voting district, but rather it be appointed by geography so no stacking or cracking.


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Problem is we have far to many politicians.
> If it was up to me we'd only have about 1/10 of the politicians we have now, instead of mayors and that they would be life long appointees by a council deeming who is most qualified.  So in the end you'd only vote for your congressman and governor and president and that's it.  Also nobody would get to choose their voting district, but rather it be appointed by geography so no stacking or cracking.


Unfortunately, it's not up to you. And it sucks ass because it's true: Too many fucking politicians. Where the hell did these bastards even come from?


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Unfortunately, it's not up to you. And it sucks ass because it's true: Too many fucking politicians. Where the hell did these bastards even come from?


 The people who made the constitution didn't foresee this problem.
Contrary to how I act on here, I am actually smart.  I predicted that Obama would win by alot within days of his announcing to run for president.
For glbt rights to start getting more ground the gay community needs to get restless with the democratic party, which it is doing.  Up until now the democratic party has been feeding them bread crumbs to keep them satisfied, but now they are demanding more.  Probably the best move the gay community could do is if the leaders in San Fransisco made a public on air statement going, "fuck you guys, if we don't get gay rights within the year we'll just go republican".  While it may be a massive bluff, the politicians would be to stupid to call it fearing lose of a political base, thus they would run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to keep hold of them.  Thus the glbt community would profit greatly from the political turmoil.


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> The people who made the constitution didn't foresee this problem.
> Contrary to how I act on here, I am actually smart.  I predicted that Obama would win by alot within days of his announcing to run for president.


I know you're smart; no need to try to convince me.


> For glbt rights to start getting more ground the gay community needs to get restless with the democratic party, which it is doing.  Up until now the democratic party has been feeding them bread crumbs to keep them satisfied, but now they are demanding more.  Probably the best move the gay community could do is if the leaders in San Fransisco made a public on air statement going, "fuck you guys, if we don't get gay rights within the year we'll just go republican".  While it may be a massive bluff, the politicians would be to stupid to call it fearing lose of a political base, thus they would run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to keep hold of them.  Thus the glbt community would profit greatly from the political turmoil.


 THEN UNLEASH THE TURMOIL. No, really. Let's do this.


----------



## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't bother trying to discuss politics. It isn't my strong suit, at all. At least not yet. Haha.


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> THEN UNLEASH THE TURMOIL. No, really. Let's do this.


 The only way you can get current politicians to do anything is to get them to panic fearing that they might not get re-elected.

Unfortunately I'm not one of the gay community leaders in San Fran, but atleast the community is already doing this with the dramatic increase of them voting republican.



skittle said:


> I don't bother trying to discuss politics. It  isn't my strong suit, at all. At least not yet. Haha.


 Pretty much politics-
Does it endanger your chances of getting re-elected?
No)Do nothing
Yes)OMG IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> I don't bother trying to discuss politics. It isn't my strong suit, at all. At least not yet. Haha.


I understand one thing about politicians: They're hypocrites.


CannonFodder said:


> The only way you can get current politicians  to do anything is to get them to panic fearing that they might not get  re-elected.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm not one of the gay community  leaders in San Fran, but atleast they community is already doing this  with the dramatic increase of them voting republican.


Then I shall become a gay community leader. >:[ (I wish I could, really. I have enough backing-up from how many friends and people my gay uncle has introduced me to all through San Francisco.)


----------



## Willow (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> I don't bother trying to discuss politics. It isn't my strong suit, at all. At least not yet. Haha.


 I will only discuss certain things having to do with politics when the issue is something I can fully debate but generally, I try to stay away from it.


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I understand one thing about politicians: They're hypocrites.
> Then I shall become a gay community leader. >:[ (I wish I could, really. I have enough backing-up from how many friends and people my gay uncle has introduced me to all through San Francisco.)


 Hey you may actually have a shot, go for it :3


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Hey you may actually have a shot, go for it :3


I would; if I wasn't a struggling student. :C I know nothing of politics, laws, etc.


----------



## Xenke (Feb 5, 2011)

I didn't know FAF had transformers.


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> I would; if I wasn't a struggling student. :C I know nothing of politics, laws, etc.


 That's my problem, even though I know how to help the glbt community, I have no say.


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> That's my problem, even though I know how to help the glbt community, I have no say.


Ah well; maybe, in some strange twist of fate, someone will finally step forward.


----------



## Willow (Feb 5, 2011)

To be quite honest, I really don't think you need to be an expert in politics or law or anything if you're passionate about your cause. Finding where to start is the hardest part. 

But that's just what I think. :/


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

Willow said:


> To be quite honest, I really don't think you need to be an expert in politics or law or anything if you're passionate about your cause. Finding where to start is the hardest part.
> 
> But that's just what I think. :/


While that's true, you at least should be familiar with politics and laws; then you can at least know of legal terms and conditions so you can back up your cause, y'know? That's just my opinion, though.


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Willow said:


> To be quite honest, I really don't think you need to be an expert in politics or law or anything if you're passionate about your cause. Finding where to start is the hardest part.
> 
> But that's just what I think. :/


 The problem is that the cause has been politicized.


----------



## Willow (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> While that's true, you at least should be familiar with politics and laws; then you can at least know of legal terms and conditions so you can back up your cause, y'know? That's just my opinion, though.


 Well..having a little legal knowledge doesn't hurt to have to make your case.


----------



## Bando (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> The problem is that the cause has been politicized.


 
Exactly. If you want to get anywhere in leading a community you need to know how politics work and how to use rhetoric.
Good intentions only go so far nowadays, sadly :c


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

Willow said:


> Well..having a little legal knowledge doesn't hurt to have to make your case.


Yeah, exactly; otherwise, you can talk all you want but unless you know the laws, I don't know if anything someone says is a valid argument.


----------



## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

You can learn on your own. It's confusing as shit but hell, if you got enough heart to do it and you wanna make a difference, go for it.

I wish shit would change on pure willpower, heart, passion, etc. alone. Would be amazing.

THE WORLD NEEDS TO RUN ON LOVE! >:C


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> You can learn on your own. It's confusing as shit but hell, if you got enough heart to do it and you wanna make a difference, go for it.


Maybe I'll look into it; I think I can even take a few classes on that stuff in the summer; if so, you can bet you'll be seeing me in San Francisco on that stage.


----------



## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Maybe I'll look into it; I think I can even take a few classes on that stuff in the summer; if so, you can bet you'll be seeing me in San Francisco on that stage.


 Do it! Go go go!
You have my support even though I live in Kansas!


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> Do it! Go go go!
> You have my support even though I live in Kansas!


Don't worry, I'll start in California and slowly creep my way into those other really, really intolerant states.


----------



## Bando (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> Do it! Go go go!
> You have my support even though I live in Kansas!


 
Seconded! If you think you can do it, go all out for it!

EDIT:


Gaz said:


> Don't worry, I'll start in California and slowly creep my way into those other really, really intolerant states.


 
You mind helping out socal out somewhat soon? Shit kinda sucks around here.


----------



## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Don't worry, I'll start in California and slowly creep my way into those other really, really intolerant states.


 Where I live is actually... Surprisingly tolerant. I live near a college though.

I mean, Tuesday is the second hearing for an anti-discrimination policy that covers sexual orientation and gender identity. <3


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

Gaz said:


> Don't worry, I'll start in California and slowly creep my way into those other really, really intolerant states.


 The best way to do that would be to steal away the people who don't care in those states.
Like have the glbt communities in those states go out and find people sitting on the fence and pull them off the fence onto your side.
tl;dr target people sitting on the fence.


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

skittle said:


> Where I live is actually... Surprisingly tolerant. I live near a college though.
> 
> I mean, Tuesday is the second hearing for an anti-discrimination policy that covers sexual orientation and gender identity. <3


Oh ho, I smell progress <3 San Francisco is, for the most part, extremely tolerant. So _if_ I manage to learn about legal business, I'll probably start off in somewhat tolerant areas and work my way out.

Hurr hurr, Gazzy has a life goal. :V



CannonFodder said:


> The best way to do that would be to steal away the people who don't care in those states.
> Like  have the glbt communities in those states go out and find people  sitting on the fence and pull them off the fence onto your side.


Good idea; I'll bring my friend Sarah along; she's intelligent, knows a bit about legal business, and she's really, really mean/persistent.


----------



## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

YAY! Go Gaz go!


----------



## Aleu (Feb 5, 2011)

I'd like to do something like that except I'm horrible with speeches. I get nervous in front of a crowd easily then I start to stutter. Doesn't really help that I don't know ANYONE from my state that is transgender or anything. Gay, yes, trans? Nope. Even if I was transitioning myself, no one would listen to me. I'd be labeled as a queer activist who's biased. If I wasn't, then I'm a bleeding heart liberal that messes in other people's business.


----------



## CannonFodder (Feb 5, 2011)

AleutheWolf said:


> I'd like to do something like that except I'm horrible with speeches. I get nervous in front of a crowd easily then I start to stutter. Doesn't really help that I don't know ANYONE from my state that is transgender or anything. Gay, yes, trans? Nope. Even if I was transitioning myself, no one would listen to me. I'd be labeled as a queer activist who's biased. If I wasn't, then I'm a bleeding heart liberal that messes in other people's business.


 Take speech class at your college.
Working on tongue twisters helped keep you from stuttering, try to say things like, "The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick."
My favorite is, "Moses supposes his toses are roses, but moses supposes erroneously.
Moses knowses his toses aren't roses as moses supposes his toses to be.
A Mose is a Mose.
A rose is a rose.
A toes is a toes.
Hoopdedillydilly!"


----------



## Aleu (Feb 5, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Take speech class at your college.
> Working on tongue twisters helped keep you from stuttering, try to say things like, "The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick."
> My favorite is, "Moses supposes his toses are roses, but moses supposes erroneously.
> Moses knowses his toses aren't roses as moses supposes his toses to be.
> ...


 I'm great at tongue twisters, it's just when i'm nervous I'm a wreck.


----------



## Monster. (Feb 5, 2011)

AleutheWolf said:


> I'm great at tongue twisters, it's just when i'm nervous I'm a wreck.


Don't worry; when it comes to anything involving public speaking, I get shaky and turn red, and I stutter a lot so it sounds like I'm on the verge of tears. It's quite sad; it helps, though, to know a lot of very eccentric gays who are perfectly happy to help you get through that initial fear.


----------



## Skittle (Feb 5, 2011)

I am horrible at speaking to people, especially in heated arguments. Somehow when it comes to using words, I'm a timid, bumbling idiot. Makes NO sense to me but, you gotta get over it at some point.


----------



## Jess2449 (Apr 9, 2014)

Let's forget this ever happened


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Apr 9, 2014)

Oh this is going to be a thing again? Okay, I guess I should be here then.


----------



## Nekokami (Jun 1, 2014)

I don't know what I am, but my fursona can change its gender at will...


----------



## Tyranny (Jun 1, 2014)

Well, my orientation is asexual/straight but as far as gender identity? Dunno, I don't like having body hair, I like being mistaken for a woman due to my long hair, wear some rings mean't for a woman. Sometimes I wish I was female, but I don't wish to bang a guy. My fursona really has no gender, originally male at the start but now null. So what would this be classified as?


----------



## Nekokami (Jun 1, 2014)

Tyranny said:


> Well, my orientation is asexual/straight but as far as gender identity? Dunno, I don't like having body hair, I like being mistaken for a woman due to my long hair, wear some rings mean't for a woman. Sometimes I wish I was female, but I don't wish to bang a guy. My fursona really has no gender, originally male at the start but now null. So what would this be classified as?


Not sure what it'd be classified as, but I think that if you were a female you'd want to date other females. Am I right?


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Transgender of FAF*

gender nonconforming ftw


----------



## Tailmon1 (Jun 1, 2014)

I have to wonder how a years old thread is dredged up again?


----------



## Tyranny (Jun 1, 2014)

If I were female I'd date other females. That part I forgot but yes.


----------



## Nekokami (Jun 1, 2014)

Tyranny said:


> If I were female I'd date other females. That part I forgot but yes.


That sorta makes sense. I guess you could be classed as a straight trans...?


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jun 1, 2014)

Tailmon1 said:


> I have to wonder how a years old thread is dredged up again?



Probably a Google search.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Jun 1, 2014)

I doubt a thread like this would survive anyways. How many transfags are here anyways?


----------



## Tyranny (Jun 1, 2014)

Ninten said:


> That sorta makes sense. I guess you could be classed as a straight trans...?



And here I always thought that transgender referred to one being both biological sexes or changed from one to another, I'm sorry if I offended I just never knew, so I could be considered trans even though biologically I'm completely male? Please forgive my stupidity...


----------



## Nekokami (Jun 1, 2014)

Tyranny said:


> And here I always thought that transgender referred to one being both biological sexes or changed from one to another, I'm sorry if I offended I just never knew, so I could be considered trans even though biologically I'm completely male? Please forgive my stupidity...


I'd think so. Although, a more accurate term is probably "femboy".


----------



## Tyranny (Jun 1, 2014)

Ninten said:


> I'd think so. Although, a more accurate term is probably "femboy".



So you mean the correct term for me is femboy? Or did I misunderstand?


----------



## Taralack (Jun 1, 2014)

Ninten said:


> I'd think so. Although, a more accurate term is probably "femboy".



I'd actually say that term is too closely related to a sexual slang to be an accurate description of someone.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 1, 2014)

wow this is like looking at a fossil or charlie chaplin films


----------



## Taralack (Jun 1, 2014)

Clayton said:


> wow this is like looking at a fossil or charlie chaplin films



Yes, look at all the banned users!


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Jun 1, 2014)

Tyranny said:


> So you mean the correct term for me is femboy? Or did I misunderstand?



Femboy isn't a term that's really used outside of porn and certain camwhorry places on the internet. From the sound of it you're just an androgynous, more feminine straight guy. Whether someone is transsexual isn't determined by how someone dresses (although it can be a byproduct), it's determined by a serious desire to become the opposite gender often caused by gender identity disorder.


----------



## Tailmon1 (Jun 1, 2014)

I'm one of the 15 that have posted that they are gender changed. I suspect 
there are more than double that but most of us prefer to be just as we want
to be on the internet. The gender that we have changed to. Nuf said.


----------



## Tremodo (Jun 1, 2014)

I once saw this TV show that had a woman who changed her gender to man, she, now he, even had a beard.

Hell, I'm a man, and the facial hair that I can grow is... not what I want it to be.

How does one go around doing that?, hormones?, is it very expensive? dangerous?. I want a real beard. Besides, I feel like emotionally, I am more sensitive than I should be. I think I've been low on testosterone all my life.


----------



## Kalmor (Jun 1, 2014)

Tremodo said:


> I once saw this TV show that had a woman who changed her gender to man, she, now he, even had a beard.
> 
> Hell, I'm a man, and the facial hair that I can grow is... not what I want it to be.
> 
> How does one go around doing that?, hormones?, is it very expensive? dangerous?. I want a real beard. Besides, I feel like emotionally, I am more sensitive than I should be. I think I've been low on testosterone all my life.


Most likely hormone treatment.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Jun 1, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> Most likely hormone treatment.



Yeah, hormones along with laser treatments effectively retard beard growth.


----------



## Hikaru Okami (Jun 3, 2014)

I can only grow half a beard. A friend once told me "Side beard is better than side boob." words of wisdom.


----------



## Troj (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm gender-apathetic, for the most part. I identify as female mostly out of convenience, but it's not all that important to me, and really doesn't define who I am or what I do. I'd be pleased as punch if gender could someday become more of a non-issue in general, and if people could just express and define themselves (within the context of gender) however they saw fit, without being razzed, harassed, or pestered.

If I could change sex at will like some species, that would be boss.

If I could have the characteristics of both sexes, that would also be boss. 

But, I've probably been reading too many biology textbooks. 

Either way, it would allow me to have encounters, interactions, and experiences that are either off-limits to me as a biological female, or that are different because I'm a female. I do often wonder about what it must be like to be male.

I also agree that furries are NOT all love, light, and tolerance, as I've heard some pretty awful transphobic remarks in furry circles, including FAF in a thread about a year or so ago.


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Jun 3, 2014)

I am a man. I was born with a penis, have what could be deemed an excessive amount of testosterone, and I act and treat myself like a man, and think of myself as a man. However, that is because I feel that way. Others feel differently about themselves, and that is a god damned human right, to do whatever one wills and feels and knows would be best for them in life. And of course, every human must fight for what is right for them, or live, suffering in silence and feelings of wasted potential and inauthenticity.

So, for people who have transitioned, you have found a route to authenticity, and I applaud you. For those who haven't, I wish you well. For those who think gender identity and constructs are not for them, good.

But for those who feel nothing about anything, there are pills and therapies for that, and there is a saying "that those who believe in nothing will fall for anything" and if it is from apathy, then it cannot be authentic unless you feel nothing in your state of being nothing.


----------



## flare! (Jun 4, 2014)

I'd have to say that I'm Gender Fluid, I guess. I'll feel like dressing up in girly clothes and wearing makeup one day, and then I'll feel like acting like a guy the next day. I usually lean a little more towards being feminine though.

Basically, I enjoy acting feminine/looking feminine/identifying as a female, but I doubt I'll ever get a procedure to change my gender.


----------



## LizardKing (Jun 4, 2014)

gender fluid kinda sounds like something you need to clean up after having sex

oh man i got gender fluid all over the sheets again, what a bother


----------



## Nekokami (Jun 4, 2014)

Taralack said:


> I'd actually say that term is too closely related to a sexual slang to be an accurate description of someone.


Oh, sorry! I didn't know the correct term.


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 4, 2014)

Ninten said:


> Oh, sorry! I didn't know the correct term.



Just to be safe never use any terms that furries use to describe things, they are most likely highly offensive because furries oversexualize everything :V


----------



## Misomie (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm agendered. Once I learned that was a thing I lost so much stress that accumulated because I was in the female gendered group.


----------



## Hikaru Okami (Jun 4, 2014)

Agender? *goes to google* I'm learning!


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Jun 5, 2014)

LizardKing said:


> gender fluid kinda sounds like something you need to clean up after having sex
> 
> oh man i got gender fluid all over the sheets again, what a bother



Use bleach. It helps with that.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jun 5, 2014)

i don't conform to the gender binary, fuck that noise


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Jun 5, 2014)

Misomie said:


> I'm agendered. Once I learned that was a thing I lost so much stress that accumulated because I was in the female gendered group.



The fuck does that even mean?


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 5, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> The fuck does that even mean?



Agendered means that one doesn't identify with binary genders. Someone who doesn't identify as a male or a female can be considered agendered.
I assume Misnomie means they were either a trans or cis at one point and felt stressed over being put into the "female" group when they actually felt that they didnt conform to being male or female.


----------



## Nekokami (Jun 5, 2014)

CaptainCool said:


> Just to be safe never use any terms that furries use to describe things, they are most likely highly offensive because furries oversexualize everything :V


Haha, a lot of furries are very sexual indeed...


----------



## Misomie (Jun 5, 2014)

Yup, pretty much what Clayton said. I felt huge stress just being classified with other females. I wasn't sure if I was trans (back when I believed in binary) but once I heard of the neutral genders, I realized they fit me best. However I bet I'd feel much more at ease in a male body. It took me years to accept my female body and I'm still kinda bleh towards it (not as bad as I used to be though).


----------



## Ayattar (Jun 5, 2014)

So, as I understand it, agender person is a person that has problems dealing with their bodily changes during the pubescence and would feel better with a body that don't have tertiary sexual characteristics?


----------



## Misomie (Jun 5, 2014)

Ayattar said:


> So, as I understand it, agender person is a person that has problems dealing with their bodily changes during the pubescence and would feel better with a body that don't have tertiary sexual characteristics?



No it's not. I've just never liked being a girl. Even as a kid I hated the stereotyping. It would tick me off so much.


----------



## RabidLynx (Jun 5, 2014)

I'm not really sure what the hell I am, sometimes I feel like I'm trans, because I've always felt like I belonged in the other gender ever since I was a little kid and I like being mistaken for the other gender, and sometimes I feel agender, right now I'm just going to say I'm gender-fluid which is pretty much me. Sometimes I am comfortable with my body, sometimes not. I don't mind being called a he, she, or they.

But I've been thinking about this for the past few weeks and it's starting to put me in a bad mood. The worst part is, I can't talk to anyone about it. because first of all, seeing how my school is homophobic I don't see them being as friendly to trans people. second, my parents, especially my dad, are extremely transphobic. They'll argue about how they aren't, but they really are. Last summer I had an experience with my dad and I'll never look at him the same way again. He just... doesn't understand. He doesn't... I would rather talk about the issue with another person in private because what happened was kinda personal, and pretty terrible.


----------



## Ayattar (Jun 5, 2014)

Misomie said:


> No it's not. I've just never liked being a girl. Even as a kid I hated the stereotyping. It would tick me off so much.



Ok. So I don't understand  Maybe it better. Sometimes it's easier to accept things this way.

Lynx, and you can't talk about it on FAF either because FAF is biased. I can feel your pain.


----------



## SouthTexasSammy (Jan 19, 2017)

Skittle said:


> So, I'm slowly noticing more and more transpeople on FAF. So, I figured why not make a trans thread?
> 
> I'm a FtM, pre-everything. I'm currently in therapy to start HRT in the near future.
> 
> I figure we can make this a support thread as well as an educational one, basically help everyone. Suggestions, resources, coming out, etc.



I am also FtM, I have been doing HRT for a long time.  The one thing that I recommend is that you start lifting weights!  It might take a while, but it does help make you look much more "Manly" in the long run.  Also stay on top of your cardio!  At first when you start HRT it will more than likely feel like you hart is going to jump out of your chest, but again in the long run it will pay off big time!  Also Cardio doe NOT kill your gains.   
All of this will help you in several ways.  One you body will obviously look much more masculine.  It will also help you deal with mood swings.  And finally it will help you heal after you have an injury, or if, and when you go under the knife.  I yet to go under the knife my self (still saving up for it) but my friend that gave me this advise has, and he swears that it helped him heal faster from his transitional surgeries.


----------



## Mobius (Jan 19, 2017)

Femboys!
:3c


----------



## SouthTexasSammy (Jan 19, 2017)

Mobius said:


> Femboys!
> :3c


?


----------



## Alex K (Jan 19, 2017)

There's only two genders folks. 

They're called heterosexuals and homosexuals. How complicated is that for people to remember?


----------



## JumboWumbo (Jan 19, 2017)




----------



## PoptartPresident (Jan 19, 2017)

Pretty sure there's only two genders.
Transgender people don't want to be labeled as 
transgender, they want to be labeled as the sex they wanted to become.

If you encounter someone that desires to be labeled as a jar of mayonnaise, then they can't blame other people for not labeling them as a jar of mayonnaise.


----------



## Alex K (Jan 19, 2017)

SouthTexasSammy said:


> You're ether trolling, or have genders confused with sexuality...



Genders have to do with sex...
Heterosexuals and Homosexuals are found everywhere and it's not that hard to label them.

I don't see an issue, but apparently everyone else does.


----------



## PlusThirtyOne (Jan 22, 2017)

SouthTexasSammy said:


> Fuck it.  I'm done with this thread.


To be far, this thread was already "done". _*Twice*_ in fact. 'twas born and died 2011, necro'd in 2014, died again and has once again been necro'd in 2017.
How DO threads get necro'd anyway? Did you specifically search for "transgender" threads and chime in on this one or what?

Always check the dates, friend. Keep topics fresh. if you're ever unsure that a thread is fresh, just give it a little squeeze. if it's a little firm but not rock hard then it's probably not too ripe. if there are any soft spots or bruises on the surface then it's old.


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