# No cub?



## Phere9999 (Jul 5, 2016)

I haven't been around FA recently, or much at all, so I'm wondering, where'd all the good cub art go?


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## FoxInTheCloset (Jul 5, 2016)

I believe it is no longer permitted due to legal issues. Try another site.


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## quoting_mungo (Jul 5, 2016)

Artwork depicting minors in the presence of nudity or sexual situations isn't permitted on Fur Affinity due to legal concerns. This has been the case for a number of years now, longer than I've been on staff.


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## Somnium (Jul 5, 2016)

quoting_mungo said:


> Artwork depicting minors in the presence of nudity or sexual situations isn't permitted on Fur Affinity due to legal concerns. This has been the case for a number of years now, longer than I've been on staff.



outrageous. Child porn where no real child is involved beyond reasonable doubt, is perfectly legal as far as I know.


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## MEDS (Jul 5, 2016)

^It is. Its really more of social problem rather than a legal problem.


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## nerdbat (Jul 5, 2016)

It's for the better anyway.


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## MEDS (Jul 5, 2016)

Is it? I'm under the impression that when you start to limit people like this, they have to look for other outlets express themselves. They're always going to find a way to scratch the itch, but now they are left with less legal outlets.


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## Somnium (Jul 5, 2016)

The next logical step would be to ban all porn, because bestiality


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## MEDS (Jul 5, 2016)

Well banning porn would actually be more logical, since it's real in that it depicts actual people. With case of any furry art, it's fantasy. As all of these sites have banned cub art, they're treating it as if the cub art equates to child pornography. The real problem is deeply rooted in the furry fandom, and that's the lack of ability to separate fantasy from reality. I thing it's good to blend the two to an extent, but equating cub art to child porn doesn't seem healthy.


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## RinkuTheRuffian (Jul 5, 2016)

Somnium said:


> The next logical step would be to ban all porn, because bestiality


Except anthros are animals with dominant human qualities, which is alright.  So baby anthros must share the same likeness with real babies.


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Jul 5, 2016)

quoting_mungo said:


> Artwork depicting minors in the presence of nudity or sexual situations isn't permitted on Fur Affinity due to legal concerns. This has been the case for a number of years now, longer than I've been on staff.



This is how it should be. You're doing the work of a saint


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## nerdbat (Jul 5, 2016)

MEDS said:


> Well banning porn would actually be more logical, since it's real in that it depicts actual people. With case of any furry art, it's fantasy. As all of these sites have banned cub art, they're treating it as if the cub art equates to child pornography.


The thing is, lolicon and cub porn is more or less a substitute for child pornography, in all honesty. I don't really want to stir this hive, since cub discussions on any furry forums tend to quickly turn into drama, but it's really hard to find a person who's, like, "Damn, banging children is disgusting! I mean, of course I have some packs of of naked child drawings on my Dropbox, which I fap to from time to time, and that InkBunny account with adult content turned up by default, which I use to find more naked child drawings to fap to, but damn, from only one thought that somebody would want to bang a child, it just makes me angry at humanity!". I know I make it sound like a strawman argument, but just thinking logically, if somebody has constant boners at erotic children pics, fantasy or not, it's hardly the kind of person you would want to babysit your kids.
I also don't see how banning real porn is more logical. Pedophilia is wrong mainly because having sex with someone who doesn't really know what the sex is is a sure way to mess up child's mind, which is effectively a child abuse. Ordinary porn is just people having sex out of consent. That's also why "fantasy" aspect is secondary here.


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## RinkuTheRuffian (Jul 5, 2016)

Helios276 said:


> I just don't know if pedophilia is right or wrong.


Is this an honest question people are asking themselves?  Fucking kill me now.  I've joked about it before, but please take me off this stupid earth, I don't care if you take me to a place with sexy aliens that only reproduce aesexually, I will not stand on the same earth as people who question if sex with an underage minor that can't comprehend the very idea of sex is okay.


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## Helios276 (Jul 5, 2016)

RinkuTheRuffian said:


> Is this an honest question people are asking themselves?  Fucking kill me now.  I've joked about it before, but please take me off this stupid earth, I don't care if you take me to a place with sexy aliens that only reproduce aesexually, I will not stand on the same earth as people who question if sex with an underage minor that can't comprehend the very idea of sex is okay.


Discard that last statement, I don't know WTF I was thinking. Pedophilia is wrong and you should get therapy.


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## Somnium (Jul 5, 2016)

There's nothing wrong with wanting to fuck with prepubescent children. However actually doing it is not nice, because there's no mutual interest. People are very different, we should accept pedos, zoos, nekros and all other philes as we did accept homos. For some wanting to fuck a 6 year old is as normal and natural as for you wanting to have sex with a hot 20 year old. Now imagine  having sex was illegal and all normal porn got banned, how would you feel about it?


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## Helios276 (Jul 5, 2016)

Somnium said:


> There's nothing wrong with wanting to fuck with prepubescent children. However actually doing it is not nice, because there's no mutual interest. People are very different, we should accept pedos, zoos, nekros and all other philes as we did accept homos. For some wanting to fuck a 6 year old is as normal and natural as for you wanting to have sex with a hot 20 year old. Now imagine  having sex was illegal and all normal porn got banned, how would you feel about it?


I understand but pedos and nekros I feel are highly mentally disturbed and those fetishes eventually turn into being a sex offender and a cannibal. Any other fetish I csn handle but those 2 , I just think they need therapy, Those are very harmful fetishs.


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## Somnium (Jul 5, 2016)

Helios276 said:


> I understand but pedos and nekros I feel are highly mentally disturbed and those fetishes eventually turn into being a sex offender and a cannibal. Any other fetish I csn handle but those 2 , I just think they need therapy, Those are very harmful fetishs.



We all are a bit crazy, it just depends on how good are we at controlling our urges. I wish therapy worked that good. Just imagine I could be a normal straight guy!


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## nerdbat (Jul 5, 2016)

Somnium said:


> There's nothing wrong with wanting to fuck with prepubescent children. However actually doing it is not nice, because there's no mutual interest. People are very different, we should accept pedos, zoos, nekros and all other philes as we did accept homos. For some wanting to fuck a 6 year old is as normal and natural as for you wanting to have sex with a hot 20 year old. Now imagine  having sex was illegal and all normal porn got banned, how would you feel about it?


I can't see anything normal about any of those things. I mean, banging children/animals/corpses is quite a harmful thing to do from both physical and moral standpoint. Wanting to do harmful things to please your sexual drive is a good sign of having some mental problems, no matter if you hold it to yourself or not. I am quite liberal too when it comes to freedom of rights and stuff, but some things should stay unacceptable from more than obvious reasons. I'm also not saying that all pedos/zoos/necros/etc are evil, malicious people - more often than not they can do nothing about it - I'm just saying this is wrong, and they should strive for some kind of help instead of embracing it as something normal.


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## Helios276 (Jul 5, 2016)

Somnium said:


> We all are a bit crazy, it just depends on how good are we at controlling our urges. I wish therapy worked that good. Just imagine I could be a normal straight guy!


But not everyone can't control those urges.


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## Helios276 (Jul 5, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> I can't see anything normal about any of those things. I mean, banging children/animals/corpses is quite a harmful thing to do from both physical and moral standpoint. Wanting to do harmful things to please your sexual drive is a good sign of having some mental problems, no matter if you hold it to yourself or not. I am quite liberal too when it comes to freedom of rights and stuff, but some things should stay unacceptable from more than obvious reasons. I'm also not saying that all pedos/zoos/necros/etc are evil, malicious people - more often than not they can do nothing about it - I'm just saying this is wrong, and they should strive for some kind of help instead of embracing it as something normal.


I completely agree.


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## zeroslash (Jul 5, 2016)




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## MEDS (Jul 5, 2016)

Helios276 said:


> I understand but pedos and nekros I feel are highly mentally disturbed and those fetishes eventually turn into being a sex offender and a cannibal. Any other fetish I csn handle but those 2 , I just think they need therapy, Those are very harmful fetishs.





Helios276 said:


> But not everyone can't control those urges.



I was thinking that cub porn could be an outlet for those fetishes so that they don't turn into crimes.


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## ijoe (Jul 5, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> I haven't been around FA recently, or much at all, so I'm wondering, where'd all the good cub art go?



It was banned a few years after the site launched due to the host/ad networks not wanting anything to do with it. Legality of drawn CP varies by country, in most of the US it is legal. In the UK and that area it is not, I think.

The only way you can post things of this nature is 
A) you remove direct references to a character's age and
B) you are popufur/a site admin


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Jul 5, 2016)

ijoe said:


> It was banned a few years after the site launched due to the host/ad networks not wanting anything to do with it. Legality of drawn CP varies by country, in most of the US it is legal. In the UK and that area it is not, I think.
> 
> The only way you can post things of this nature is
> A) you remove direct references to a character's age and
> B) you are popufur/a site admin



Why do people say popufur. I don't even know any popufurs aside from Scappo and Wolfy-nail


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 5, 2016)

MEDS said:


> I was thinking that cub porn could be an outlet for those fetishes so that they don't turn into crimes.


If you truly believe that, than how come most offenders start off with just pictures?  It's like a drug for the sick minded.  Eventually pictures (which is what most Pedofiles start out with) aren't good enough.  They become bland and don't quite calm the fix.  So they go for the real deal.
To actually think promoting child Pornogrophy will satisfy Pedos is a bit naive.  :/


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## Helios276 (Jul 5, 2016)

DravenDonovan said:


> If you truly believe that, than how come most offenders start off with just pictures?  It's like a drug for the sick minded.  Eventually pictures (which is what most Pedofiles start out with) aren't good enough.  They become bland and don't quite calm the fix.  So they go for the real deal.
> To actually think promoting child Pornogrophy will satisfy Pedos is a bit naive.  :/


it's hard to know if people who have those fetishes can control themselves.


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 5, 2016)

Helios276 said:


> it's hard to know if people who have those fetishes can control themselves.


Depends on that person's mind set and if they want to control themselves.  If they truly see nothing wrong with it, as I've surprisingly seen people actually saying they don't see what's wrong with it on here, 9x out of 10, they aren't going to try and control themselves.  
If someone is 100% ok with viewing these arts and 100% don't see anything wrong with being a Pedofile, than the only thing keeping them from living out their fetishes is the fact that they will go to jail for it, and chances are they will be killed in jail for it.  By other criminals.


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## lyar (Jul 5, 2016)

Such an interesting debate the topic of CP starts. Wasn't there a time when no one cared about age or anything? The fact that it is not the social norm right now is the sole reason why its wrong. So all in favor of cub you're going to either have to become a world influence like Christianity and change the social norms or settle for boring old people porn.


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## Willow (Jul 6, 2016)

Somnium said:


> There's nothing wrong with wanting to fuck with prepubescent children. However actually doing it is not nice, because there's no mutual interest. People are very different, we should accept pedos, zoos, nekros and all other philes as we did accept homos. For some wanting to fuck a 6 year old is as normal and natural as for you wanting to have sex with a hot 20 year old.


except a 20 year old can generally consent to such a thing. children and animals cannot and it's not healthy for them. 
god, I can't tell if you're actively playing dumb for the argument's sake or are just painfully ignorant but wow. I didn't think people were still this oblivious to this sort of thing



> Now imagine  having sex was illegal and all normal porn got banned, how would you feel about it?


not care


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## Phere9999 (Jul 6, 2016)

Well, thanks anyways to the people who answered my question. The rest of you can sod off and argue over petty things elsewhere.


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## SniperCoon2882 (Jul 6, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> Well, thanks anyways to the people who answered my question. The rest of you can sod off and argue over petty things elsewhere.


Hehe, someone hasn't heard of diverging threads


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## Phere9999 (Jul 6, 2016)

I don't use forums much, so no.


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## Wither (Jul 6, 2016)

Also, that ban was, like, 10 years ago, mate.


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 6, 2016)

lyar said:


> Such an interesting debate the topic of CP starts. Wasn't there a time when no one cared about age or anything? The fact that it is not the social norm right now is the sole reason why its wrong. So all in favor of cub you're going to either have to become a world influence like Christianity and change the social norms or settle for boring old people porn.


If the child is literally a cub/kid (under the age of 10) it is more than just morally wrong.  It is all the way around WRONG!  It can do physically damage to their small bodies, not just mentally scaring them.  If you seriously think it is ok, in any way, to fuck a child, you deserve any kind of punishment brought on by the parents.  Which, if we were wild animals the parents would fucking murder you ass for touching their baby :/
What I think you're recalling is a time when Marriage was just a link between families, and once a girl came of age (which is normally after their first period) they'd be married off to a guy of a rich family.  Most of the time this guy was considerably older than she.  Back then they weren't well aware that a girl getting pregnant at such a young age could KILL her. Since getting pregnant at any age, back then, was life threatening. An animal getting pregnant at too early of an age can kill them.  So this 'norm' was set because getting pregnant when you're still a child can kill you.  And since any time you actually pretake in sex you are chancing getting someone pregnant, or becoming so, it's just a big ass NO NO.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jul 6, 2016)

Dude you're into cub porn? What the fuck is wrong with you? Even most in the babyfur fandom frown upon that crap and often those into it end up outcasts.

If you want your fix, go to inkbunny.


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 6, 2016)

@Iyar Also, should mention that 'sex' was heavily frowned upon if it occurred before marriage, and you could be publicly hung for actions against a child.


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 6, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> Well, thanks anyways to the people who answered my question. The rest of you can sod off and argue over petty things elsewhere.


Heh petty.. If I had a child, and your nacho ass came anywhere near them, I'd stab you to death with a bloody fork until you died of blood lose, or ran away so mangled that you'd be shot for being mistaken as some devil spawn.


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## Somnium (Jul 6, 2016)

Willow said:


> except a 20 year old can generally consent to such a thing. children and animals cannot and it's not healthy for them.



So with this logic all animals rape each other and minors can only rape other minors and themselves too.


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## FoxInTheCloset (Jul 6, 2016)

Cub shit is morally wrong for every reason stated by everyone else before me. So since i have no points to add I can add a picture.





And I'm normally very open minded for weird kinky stuff.


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## Somnium (Jul 6, 2016)

I find cub porn cute. I don't watch real child porn though, but I'm still a bit curious for the shock value, especially since it's a few clicks away.


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## MEDS (Jul 6, 2016)

Great discussion! I think we've all shared our opinions, so lets give this topic a rest.


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 6, 2016)

Non-sexual themed cub art is cute.  Nothing wrong if you just happen to find baby anthro animals adorable, and want to see more of that.  Just not the fetish aspect of it.


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## lyar (Jul 6, 2016)

DravenDonovan said:


> If the child is literally a cub/kid (under the age of 10) it is more than just morally wrong.  It is all the way around WRONG!  It can do physically damage to their small bodies, not just mentally scaring them.  If you seriously think it is ok, in any way, to fuck a child, you deserve any kind of punishment brought on by the parents.  Which, if we were wild animals the parents would fucking murder you ass for touching their baby :/
> What I think you're recalling is a time when Marriage was just a link between families, and once a girl came of age (which is normally after their first period) they'd be married off to a guy of a rich family.  Most of the time this guy was considerably older than she.  Back then they weren't well aware that a girl getting pregnant at such a young age could KILL her. Since getting pregnant at any age, back then, was life threatening. An animal getting pregnant at too early of an age can kill them.  So this 'norm' was set because getting pregnant when you're still a child can kill you.  And since any time you actually pretake in sex you are chancing getting someone pregnant, or becoming so, it's just a big ass NO NO.



You need to chill out. My point was that the ruling party/ social norms of the time dictates what's right or wrong, even if they are actually wrong in the numerous ways you've explained.  



DravenDonovan said:


> @Iyar Also, should mention that 'sex' was heavily frowned upon if it occurred before marriage, and you could be publicly hung for actions against a child.



I never specified what time period or place I was referring to so that is irrelevant. Also my name is Lyar with an "L" not an "I".


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Jul 6, 2016)

lyar said:


> You need to chill out. My point was that the ruling party/ social norms of the time dictates what's right or wrong, even if they are actually wrong in the numerous ways you've explained.
> 
> 
> 
> I never specified what time period or place I was referring to so that is irrelevant. Also my name is Lyar with an "L" not an "I".



But there have been medical studies that have shown that even boning someone under 18 is fairly harmful to them; more so if they're even younger.

It's wrong in many ways mate and there's nothing justifiable about it. If you like it you're a defective member of society and should seek help to remedy it


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## lyar (Jul 6, 2016)

Sergei Nóhomo said:


> But there have been medical studies that have shown that even boning someone under 18 is fairly harmful to them; more so if they're even younger.
> 
> It's wrong in many ways mate and there's nothing justifiable about it. If you like it you're a defective member of society and should seek help to remedy it


Ugh my point is simple but you don't seem to get it. I don't feel like explaining. So just know you're dumb.


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Jul 6, 2016)

lyar said:


> Ugh my point is simple but you don't seem to get it. I don't feel like explaining. So just know you're dumb.



You really don't know who you're talking to, do you.

i cri


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## FoxInTheCloset (Jul 6, 2016)

Dont fight against Sergie, you will get out shitposted sooo hard.

(But i do agree with him here)


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## lyar (Jul 6, 2016)

Sergei Nóhomo said:


> You really don't know who you're talking to, do you.
> 
> i cri





FoxInTheCloset said:


> Dont fight against Sergie, you will get out shitposted sooo hard.
> 
> (But i do agree with him here)


Lmao. I forgot.


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Jul 6, 2016)

lyar said:


> Lmao. I forgot.



Now let's celebrate!


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 6, 2016)

lyar said:


> You need to chill out. My point was that the ruling party/ social norms of the time dictates what's right or wrong, even if they are actually wrong in the numerous ways you've explained.
> 
> 
> 
> I never specified what time period or place I was referring to so that is irrelevant. Also my name is Lyar with an "L" not an "I".


Your point was pointless.  There is no point to your point.  There is no 'ruling party/social norm' case here, Iyar.  
Being defensive when it comes to babies is all natural.  In our genetics.  Most of ours, anyways.  It has nothing to do with norms, in any way, shape, form or fashion :/ 
As I tried to explain in my response, animals defend babies.  Some that aren't even their own.


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 7, 2016)

@lyar First off I want to start out by saying, I'm sorry.  I got a little heated because of the subject at hand.  I believe I understand where you were trying to come from, now.  I believe you're talking about the adolescent aspect of Pedofillia.  About how it used to be an acceptable thing, back in the day, that you were allowed to marry and have a family after you've 'come of age' and how age difference wasn't as frowned upon as it is now.  That aspect of it IS considered a Social Norm with it now being considered Pedofillia to have intercourse with someone between the ages of puberty and 18, when you are over 18. 
However..
This thread was about the subject of 'Cub Art'.  Furbabies.  The kind of Pedofillia that has always been a natural Nono, and not something deemed so because society said so.  Yanno, infants who are still in dipers, or kids who haven't hit puberty yet, and are still underdeveloped.
Why I got mad was because I thought you were trying to say that the only reason why people frown upon baby/children porn was because of 'ruling party/social norm'.  Which is still messed up, man, if you did mean it for that, too :/


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## nerdbat (Jul 7, 2016)

Sergei Nóhomo said:


> Why do people say popufur. I don't even know any popufurs aside from Scappo and Wolfy-nail


This is the same fandom that created words like "yiff" and "furpile" - if there is a stupid way to name something, furdudes will defurnitely furd a way to fur it fup.


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## Casey Fluffbat (Jul 7, 2016)

Somnium said:


> I find cub porn cute. I don't watch real child porn though, but I'm still a bit curious for the shock value, especially since it's a few clicks away.


.


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## Phere9999 (Jul 7, 2016)

Online communities: Vessel of empty threats :^)


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 7, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> Online communities: Vessel of empty threats :^)


Till the day someone in real life discovers who ya really are.  Than you'll be craving these empty threats ;3


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## Phere9999 (Jul 7, 2016)

>implying i crave empty threats.

I love this chat. You guys get seriously triggered lol


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## Phere9999 (Jul 7, 2016)

I'll take my furry child porn and masturbate to it elsewhere. You guys have fun lol


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## DravenDonovan (Jul 7, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> >implying i crave empty threats.
> 
> I love this chat. You guys get seriously triggered lol


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jul 7, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> Online communities: Vessel of empty threats :^)


And don't forget a breeding ground for filthy degenerates that only seek to destroy whatever community they're a part off, can't forget about them.


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## nerdbat (Jul 7, 2016)

Phere9999 said:


> >implying i crave empty threats.
> 
> I love this chat. You guys get seriously triggered lol


I'm not seeing anybody triggered - the thread was quite civil, actually. Maybe you're one of those pseudo-trolls who get jumpy and orgasmic over every slightly debatable topic, but that's better for you, I guess .з.


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## quoting_mungo (Jul 7, 2016)

Hey, guys, when you write a post containing personal attacks and/or image macros, do all of us a favor and *don't post it*, please?

No, seriously. Most of us are adults, and the ones who aren't I'm pretty sure are still capable of acting adult _enough_ to keep any further discussion civil. I don't mind whether you are for or against cub porn. Truly. Water off a duck's back, doesn't bother me either way. Just respect each other, regardless of opinion, okay? (Or at least act like you do.)


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jul 7, 2016)

You think to highly of this fandom, quoting_mungo. When people do retarded shit that is not only damaging to their own health but those around them too, it's kinda hard not to say something. And really, all we're doing is just expressing our opinions  and not being enablers on such a controversial topic.


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Jul 7, 2016)

Mr. Fox said:


> And don't forget a breeding ground for filthy degenerates that only seek to destroy whatever community they're a part off, can't forget about them.



You rang?


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jul 7, 2016)

Oh hi there!


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## Astus (Jul 14, 2016)

Just going to throw my two cents in here... I've always (after like the age of 15) believed in the idea of cultural liberalism, the idea that people can do as they please so long as they don't harm anyone else in the process... in even shorter terms, let people be people so long as they aren't hurting anyone. 

In my time around the babyfur areas of the Internet, as you may notice I do consider myself a babyfur, you have what I would call the four areas of babyfur, the most people being from my experience part of areas 1 and 2, 1 being the non sexual individuals who like to dress up as babies and role play as such, and 2 being the ones who like to dress up as babies, but are more focused on the diapers/using their diapers as a means of sexual satisfactory... aka diaper fetish and associated fetishes.... then we later get into the minority area 3 and 4, 3 being the babyfurs that enjoy sexualized content of their character for other specific fetishes or sexualized content of them and their partner/mate. The people in area 3 not having pedophile like urges just rather something along the lines of identifying themselves as an individual in a child's body with the mind and understanding of an adult. And of course the lower population to my knowledge the 4th area... the pedos which do in fact exist in the babyfur community, usually keeping to themselves because a very large majority of individuals in all areas do not like that sort of stuff, especially area 1 because usually their desire to regress is sort of a blanket of safety and innocence for them. And don't worry the FBI and such organizations are keeping a watchful eye over all of the sites with babyfurs on them, as to catch and child predators and such....


So what does this long rant have to do with anything? Well personally with all my information on hand, I still wouldn't want any cub related stuff to be posted anywhere on FA. Of the very small minority of individuals who do fall into area 4, their actions should be kept off of sites that may house other younger individuals, I wouldn't want any of my children to be on a site where I know there are potential threats right around the corner if someone finds out they are 13 or such, it's just not a smart move. Some may argue that there will always be predators hiding, while that may be true allowing those who like the art to stay will just increase the number and that chance of happening. As well eliminating cub art also doesn't affect area 3 that I talked about, since children aren't the focus of their art, rather they just identify themselves as a child... they can get porn or related content of their sona as an older character with the same effect, so people who aren't pedos don't get any negative effects from Keeping cub stuff out...

Okay I know I've ranted on long enough, I could provide more examples but take it from a babyfur, just keep the cub stuff out please


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