# No One That Matters Cares if You're a Furry



## Judge Spear (Dec 23, 2021)

My friends hate the furry fandom. They know that I draw things that directly cater to it. Somehow, they're still enthusiastically friends with me after 15 years. The reason for this is easy:

I am not _outwardly_ weird.

Furry is not a cult, religion, personality trait, immutable, or a sexuality. It is a community driven hobby for nerds and artists. The overwhelming majority of people in the meatspace put no stock into the general entertainment and artistic interests of other people. With the stipulation those interests don't dominate their entire character and impede their growth as a person. Your family, friends, and significant others will not care. They won't even know what the fuck you're talking about when you feel the need to announce your "furryhood". So don't.

"Coming out" as a furry is objectively stupid. It's almost _insulting_. It's likening a meager interest inclusive of every walk of life to the disclosure of legitimate orientations that get people *murdered* in many parts of the world. Gamers, weebs, Trekkies, D&Der's, etc don't "come out" in hopes of unnecessary validation because they're *hobbies*. If people find out your deep dark furry secret, fine. But despite where they'd lean on it, the most conservative of them would not _disown or divorce_ you for it. Unless you incentivize it by being an incorrigible, ambitionless, and obnoxious degenerate in the name of being a furry "liFesTyLer". Every single time I have seen someone be clowned for being a furry, they did or said something absurdly stupid deserving of mockery.

The scant few people who _will_ give you a hard time just for liking anthro characters exist exclusively on the Internet and are likely bigger losers than you fear your close ones will perceive you to be. They aren't worth the time. Just be bare minimum presentable, stop trying to _make_ people care about your fandom, and get away from the more grotesque shit within it. You will have next to no problems from the people that do honestly love you.

TL;DR: Make a concerted effort to not be a fucking idiot and no one will even notice you are into dog people. Get self-aware.


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## TrishaCat (Dec 23, 2021)

This thread should've never been unstickied


			https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/psa-about-coming-out-as-a-furry.705632/


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 23, 2021)

*Sigh*

I wish the part about people giving you a hard time only exist on the internet is sadly not true.

Went suiting at MFF 2021. We suited up I. A parking lot near the convention center since we drove and all of our stuff was in the car.

Got harassed by people who were not there for the convention (there a lots of restaurants in the area) more than once on our way to and from the convention center in suits. Literally just strangers giving us crap about being furries. One thing I remember was "what the f*** is that! God! Furries! That's disgusting!"

And that is to say nothing of the gas attack at MFF 2014 that left 19 people hospitalized to which national news anchors laughed (one even running off set because she couldn't keep her composure) and another said he wish he didn't know what furries were. (Reference)

Yeah... you are right... Furry is not a sexuality... it is a Fandom... but one that is often villainized and misunderstood similar to DnD being villainized during the Satanic Panic. You don't have to come out about it but that is not to say telling people in your life will be consequence free... but the people who actually care about you will hear you out (even I they have misconceptions). If they don't... then you may wish to reconsider if they are for you since they want to push you out of a hobby for silly preconceived notions.


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## Stray Cat Terry (Dec 23, 2021)

It's just another form or racism/nationalism stuff, but a lesser version--the global culture stuff has gone too far to turn this anytime soon--I suppose.

However, good thing is that being a furry (aka. having another hobby zone) is not obviously noticed by others unless you actively advertise it by whatever means. Which means--we can simply keep enjoying whatever we do, and remain unnoticed.
(Cons and stuff... At least we got our rights as human being alike, to enjoy whatever certain group should be enjoying, just like any other cons besides furry fandom's--as long as we ain't seeking harms. They should leave us alone then.)

This is simply emphasizing the points others have mentioned, and yes I'm here to, well, emphasize!

All should be fine unless we get out there and shove whatever people ain't interested in to people's faces. (In short: Don't go Woof-woof meow-meow on just anyone!)

In case of those who actively seek to harass.. It's their matter, not of 'this side'.

Merry Christmas, happy new year UwU


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## Filter (Dec 23, 2021)

Foxy Emy said:


> one that is often villainized and misunderstood similar to DnD being villainized during the Satanic Panic


Good point. I hadn't made that connection, but it does share some similarities with the Satanic Panic. Much like the Satanic Panic, in fact, I think a lot of it is self-imposed.

I vividly remember the cultural uproar at the time, when I was a little kid. It seemed so pervasive, even before discovering those over-the-top Jack Chick comics. What's weird though, is that my Christian parents never heard of it! I thought for sure they would have, but nope. I could have openly listened to heavy metal and played DnD, and they wouldn't have minded. Something I only discovered later. They also put my furry art on the wall when I was older, without so much as raising an eyebrow. It was SFW, of course, but it was some of the same stuff that I uploaded to VCL. Anyway, back to the Satanic Panic. The father of one of my friends, a college professor and music director at our church, would even bring Slayer and Metallica albums home for their kids, along with Bach, Mahler, and other classical composers. Why am I saying this? Because we shouldn't assume how others will react, and that those who are closest to us might even be the most understanding. Not always, of course, but it fits with the "those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind" trope.

This is one of the dangers of people labeling and judging others as groups rather than as individuals. It can sometimes backfire with unwarranted fear and perceived judgment where there isn't any, giving the false impression of such things where none exist.

Which isn't to deny the fact that even family and close friends can potentially judge and reject us for various reasons. That's a very real possibility, and very sad when it happens, but it shouldn't be assumed.

Strangers giving you crap about being a furry are a prime example of people who shouldn't matter. The extent that they do is often up to us.

Use your better judgment, where you can. Weigh the pros and cons. We shouldn't shove any of this in peoples' faces, whether hobbies, opinions about religion and politics, or whatever, but that doesn't mean you should let them silence or control you. Live your life as you see fit, answering questions if others ask and seem genuinely curious rather than baiting. Be considerate. Keep the potential for misunderstanding in the back of your mind, and do a cost-benefit analysis before you share.

I've never come out as a furry, as I think that's much weirder than being a furry itself, but people do know that I like animal characters (among other things). Just be you. The label is optional, and only useful where there's shared understanding. Maybe, over time, it will become more acceptable in popular culture, much like heavy metal did after the Satanic Panic lost steam and faded into obscurity.


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## Troj (Dec 23, 2021)

I agree that you'll catch less flack and win more friends and allies overall if you're not pushy, creepy, or weird about the things you enjoy or believe in. Basic social skills and basic manners can go a long, long way. (Having a ready "spiel" for explaining the fandom can help, too.)

But, there are unfortunately people in the world who'll be shitty to you no matter how nice, polite, or appropriate you try to be, because some people are just dicks.

Because those shitty people exist, some furries have a not-unreasonable anxiety about "coming out" to those around them--and, yes, some furries are overly-fearful in this regard, to the point where they create the very negative outcomes they fear.

I've consistently said that most people will take cues from you on how to react to your fandom participation. If you act freaked out or ashamed, a lot of people will assume that there's something for you to be ashamed or fearful _about_, and bullies will take that as a cue to prod you in that tender area. If you act cool, confident, and nonchalant, most people will take that cue and follow your lead.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 23, 2021)

I agree. Just like anything else, don't let haters bring you down. Do not expect a negative outcome unless you have a good reason to (for example, if someone has trash talked furries in front of you or even worse, is just abusive and you are stuck in a home with them).

Bottom line is, like any hobby, it is up to you the extent of your involvement and the extent to which share with people. You don't need to come out or even tell people at all but I'm sure if they care a lot about you they will be curious about what you are interested in and may be upset if you try to hide it. It will be important to them because it is important to you.

Don't hide it unless you have an obvious reason to. Don't go out if your way to bring it up either and if it comes up be furry with confidence. ^w^


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## TyraWadman (Dec 24, 2021)

To a good number of people it isn't just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. This behavior is prevalent in many fandoms and religions. Some people will identify as Christian despite never attending church or reading a bible. Then there are those that will devote their lives to it and expect their partner to do the same. No real way to tackle the issue.

People have been killed/harassed/'_cancelled'_ for *a lot* *less*. Parents have struck their own kids because they were in a foul mood. People have been killed for the color of their skin. People have been killed for seeing a movie. People have been killed for just going to school. So why does it seem outlandish to think someone might be harmed for expressing interest in a harmless hobby?

I do feel there are more important priorities that could be focused on, and I definitely think people probably need to curb their obsessions/polish their social skills, but I also think how they handle it should be up to the discretion of the individual. As repetitive as it might be to see on the forums, you can't really know what's lurking around the corner from them IRL. It's why I suggest to them, if they don't feel safe, then don't pitch it. Use pins/some other kind of merch that you think would be a signal to others, but don't go poking a hive if you don't want to get stung by the wasps. A lot of the times these are individuals still living at home/in school. It might suck eggs, but wait until you have a place of your own before breaking the news if you think you're at risk to be evicted. They might never be happy with your hobby, but you can still be practical about it!


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 24, 2021)

Don't have to deal with any of this shit since I have feathers. OvO


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## TyraWadman (Dec 24, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Don't have to deal with any of this shit since I have feathers. OvO


Always flexin' those feathers like a peacock. XD


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## Yakamaru (Dec 24, 2021)

One look at Furry Twatter and it's kinda easy to see why the fandom gets so much shit. If it's not moral busy-bodies it's bloated self-important nobodies with no job whose sole existence is trying to scream the loudest, and in both of those cases it's utterly pathetic to watch(and more for that matter, but will leave it at that). Then there's FA which is pretty much just tossing some LEGO's in front of a strip club.

If anyone in the fandom actually gave a damn about outwards appearance then the saying "behave in accordance with how you want to be perceived" is essential. Don't want to come off as a freak? Don't behave like one.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 24, 2021)

Judge Spear said:


> My friends hate the furry fandom. They know that I draw things that directly cater to it. Somehow, they're still enthusiastically friends with me after 15 years. The reason for this is easy:
> 
> I am not _outwardly_ weird.


Or... they may simply like you too much as a person, to really care about any of your perceived "shortcomings" (they may hold) in drawing these sorts of things.... and in that case, they're great friends to have and to keep. ☺


Judge Spear said:


> Furry is not a cult, religion, personality trait, immutable, or a sexuality. It is a community driven hobby for nerds and artists. The overwhelming majority of people in the meatspace put no stock into the general entertainment and artistic interests of other people. With the stipulation those interests don't dominate their entire character and impede their growth as a person. Your family, friends, and significant others will not care. They won't even know what the fuck you're talking about when you feel the need to announce your "furryhood". So don't.
> 
> "Coming out" as a furry is objectively stupid. It's almost _insulting_. It's likening a meager interest inclusive of every walk of life to the disclosure of legitimate orientations that get people *murdered* in many parts of the world. Gamers, weebs, Trekkies, D&Der's, etc don't "come out" in hopes of unnecessary validation because they're *hobbies*. If people find out your deep dark furry secret, fine. But despite where they'd lean on it, the most conservative of them would not _disown or divorce_ you for it. Unless you incentivize it by being an incorrigible, ambitionless, and obnoxious degenerate in the name of being a furry "liFesTyLer". Every single time I have seen someone be clowned for being a furry, they did or said something absurdly stupid deserving of mockery.
> 
> The scant few people who _will_ give you a hard time just for liking anthro characters exist exclusively on the Internet and are likely bigger losers than you fear your close ones will perceive you to be. They aren't worth the time. Just be bare minimum presentable, stop trying to _make_ people care about your fandom, and get away from the more grotesque shit within it. You will have next to no problems from the people that do honestly love you.


@Judge Spear Well..... yeah - it is just a hobby and an interest, many of us will agree with you there...... *but* there are some people (out there) who also consider it more than "just a hobby" - for any number of reasons.... be it: personal growth and development, personal interests (as a lifestyle), or even... as a part of their sexual orientation.... and thus - they believe that being a Furry is a part of their "holistic identity"..... and in turn - it's more than just a hobby for them; it's a part of who they are as people..... which in turn is something they want to divulge and "come out to" others about.

Many Furs don't do this for shock, for awe, or for being intentionally "weird" with people.... many say they do it simply to be honest; to be "proud" of who they are, and (most importantly): to be un-apologetic for these interests and the identity that comes with it - that some others in the larger community may take issue with... (like the types you mentioned above).

It's certainly debateable...... whether a so-called "coming out" is really necessary in any way; and yes - most loved ones of ours won't care too much about it anyway probably..... (unless one is living in a non-accepting, and semi-hostile environment)..... and in those cases - coming out is strongly discouraged by many in the community, if for anything: that person's own safety.

But.... for those who can, and who feel they may need to do it for themselves - seeing that it may be beneficial for them, then.... I think we should just say "so be it" - and just let them do so without criticisms.


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## BadRoy (Dec 24, 2021)

Self awareness is a lot to ask of a fandom primarily composed of horny twenty-somethings, narcissistic creators, and social media addicts, unfortunately.


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## Khafra (Dec 24, 2021)

Troj said:


> Because those shitty people exist, some furries have a not-unreasonable anxiety about "coming out" to those around them--and, yes, some furries are overly-fearful in this regard, to the point where they create the very negative outcomes they fear.


I agree with all the other stuff, but why would there be a need to do a coming out in the first place? You can choose to hide your hobbies less or more. If you don't hide being a furry, people will notice and probably inquire about it if they're interested, and you can fill them in on the details. Maybe they'll find it fun and start participating alongside you. On the other hand, actively making it a big deal and forcing everyone to participate will at best make your friends and family uncomfortable.


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## FlooferWoofer (Dec 24, 2021)

Yeah no. Hard disagree on anyone who troll shields normies or justifies bad behavior. This post summarizes as:

"I wasn't btfo'd for being a furry by MY friends(wowee they win best friends of 2021) because I act "right", so if you are, you deserve it for being cringe. Quit being weird."

It's more sad some furries feel their hobby unsafe to express their differences, because "normal" morons think they're great and everyone should be boring too. "Normal" is just a setting on your dryer no matter how much personality you hide behind a facade for those who would reject you.

If normies weren't judgemental to begin with(thats on them and your 'friends'), maybe some furries wouldn't need to make a public spectacle of 'coming out'.


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## Shyy (Dec 24, 2021)

Regarding being a Furry as a hobby, I've revealed to several in another type of Fandom what I am, and the results are mostly the following- slightly confused looks, realization, and acceptance,  with a few having an actual interest in "how" I function (full Protogen suits with some "add-ons"). I've been happy to receive this interest, of course. These people are "Star Wars" fans and, they have mostly accepted a Furry in their midst,  along with a few others quietly stepping forward. 
Basically, we are not alone out there and we ARE becoming more "Main Stream".


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## Shyy (Dec 24, 2021)

Hell, a few of the "Normie" ones want to see me <actually> duel in my suit. 
Now, <THAT> is support!


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## Khafra (Dec 24, 2021)

FlooferWoofer said:


> Yeah no. Hard disagree on anyone who troll shields normies or justifies bad behavior. This post summarizes as:
> 
> "I wasn't btfo'd for being a furry by MY friends(wowee they win best friends of 2021) because I act "right", so if you are, you deserve it for being cringe. Quit being weird."
> 
> ...


How would a "coming out" alleviate those issues? If a person hates furries enough that they'd disown a friend over it, either you won't change their mind, or they weren't a very good friend. 

But if you really want to change someone's mind... 

Generally, the stereotype from a hater's point of view is that being a furry is one's entire personality. A coming out will only reaffirm that belief. They are associated with life changing news for important people in your life. It tells everyone you've not been yourself and now you will show what you really are. All while telling them about your obscure hobby. 

If you want to challenge their worldview, it is much better for them to see that you aren't hiding anything. That they've always known the real 'you', they simply didn't know about being a furry. And they also know they don't have to interact with the furry part, just like they did before.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

Khafra said:


> Generally, the stereotype from a hater's point of view is that being a furry is one's entire personality.



TW (Scuicide Threats, Manipulation, Abuse): That.... well that is not the stereotype I was familiar with before I knew what the Fandom was all about. I was told it was about beastiality and after I told my mom I was trans (which she did not respond well to, to the day) she told me if I ever told her I was a furry she would kill herself. So yeah... I'm living on my own and don't talk to her any more for obvious reasons. But like "Furry Being Your Entire Personality" is probably the LEAST harmful stereotype I have heard.


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## BadRoy (Dec 24, 2021)

FlooferWoofer said:


> Yeah no. Hard disagree on anyone who troll shields normies or justifies bad behavior.
> 
> It's more sad some furries feel their hobby unsafe to express their differences, because "normal" morons think they're great and everyone should be boring too. "Normal" is just a setting on your dryer no matter how much personality you hide behind a facade for those who would reject you.
> 
> If normies weren't judgemental to begin with(thats on them and your 'friends'), maybe some furries wouldn't need to make a public spectacle of 'coming out'.


How selfish to demand that society bend over and accommodate you and your niche interests. Those '_boring normies_' (are you 14?) are the majority of civilization.
Compromise works. Weirdos like us make an unspoken agreement to act like normal human beings and society agrees to leave us alone, generally. The more obnoxious you act, the more you get ostracized. Fair is fair.


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## FlooferWoofer (Dec 24, 2021)

Khafra said:


> How would a "coming out" alleviate those issues? If a person hates furries enough that they'd disown a friend over it, either you won't change their mind, or they weren't a very good friend.
> 
> But if you really want to change someone's mind...
> 
> ...


For the same reason coming out served people before. I'm proud of being a furry and I feel no shame. It isn't my whole personality but it's another bright stripe of the flag in my heart and I wear it proudly.

Coming out as a furry serves:

1) It's much harder to condemn someone you love for being something you hate in the presence of other family. If you're like me and have heavily conservative family you KNOW hates us, it's better to say it in the open where others will call their hate out.

2) It starts a conversation, where misinformation and other negative perceptions can be genuinely discussed and a chance to educate everyone arises. Some people are woefully misinformed and that's as much their fault as antivax people. It takes a degree of effort and research we don't often get.

3) It tells you who your real family is. Your real family will stick by you and make a genuine effort to understand even if that involves leaving the precious comfort zone.


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## FlooferWoofer (Dec 24, 2021)

BadRoy said:


> How selfish to demand that society bend over and accommodate you and your niche interests. Those '_boring normies_' (are you 14?) are the majority of civilization.
> Compromise works. Weirdos like us make an unspoken agreement to act like normal human beings and society agrees to leave us alone, generally. The more obnoxious you act, the more you get ostracized. Fair is fair.


I dare say if my or anyone's harmless eccentricity is enough a reason to shun, then the prospect of it is shallow and i didn't want the hollow, conditional friendship anyway. :3

There have been so many occasions where the majority were so very wrong it shows you a majority of opinion is meaningless. Society once believed phrenology was legit thing or the earth being flat.

Go against the grain, because the grain is fallible.


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## Troj (Dec 24, 2021)

Khafra said:


> I agree with all the other stuff, but why would there be a need to do a coming out in the first place? You can choose to hide your hobbies less or more. If you don't hide being a furry, people will notice and probably inquire about it if they're interested, and you can fill them in on the details. Maybe they'll find it fun and start participating alongside you. On the other hand, actively making it a big deal and forcing everyone to participate will at best make your friends and family uncomfortable.



Agreed! I think much of the brouhaha around this topic is the result of people having different ideas or mental images of what it means to "come out."

I agree with those who say it's generally cringe to solemnly announce that you're furry the way you'd tell your grandma that you're trans or gather your family to reveal that you're dying of a terminal disease.

I think the best approach in most cases is to just be chill, non-defensive, and honest about what you enjoy. Don't conceal or deny it, but also, don't force it onto people who've indicated that they're disinterested in or uncomfortable with it.

Sadly, some people will have to be more discreet and even, paranoid if their school, their workplace, their field of work, their family, their local community, and/or members of their friend group are stuffy, judgmental, loopy, or obviously anti-furry, anti-LGBTQ, or anti-neeeeeeeeeerd.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

FlooferWoofer said:


> I dare say if my or anyone's harmless eccentricity is enough a reason to shun, then the prospect of it is shallow and i didn't want the hollow, conditional friendship anyway. :3
> 
> There have been so many occasions where the majority were so very wrong it shows you a majority of opinion is meaningless. Society once believed phrenology was legit thing or the earth being flat.
> 
> Go against the grain, because the grain is fallible.



I have said it before and will say it again:

"The truth is cringe, embrace it! Disgust people and do it with fervor! Be a nerd, be furry trash, be a weeb, be yourself unapologetically!"

Just make sure you are in a safe environment to do so.


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## LameFox (Dec 24, 2021)

I think at this point furries worrying about 'coming out' is turning into one of those things where I am more likely to encounter people complaining about it than the subject of the complaint.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

I would suggest there's a measure of biting the bullet when opting to be part of _any _open fandom. There is no gate keeping in the furry community (as with most communities, really), so one need only say "I'm a furry" and we all share in whatever decisions they make from an outsider's perspective. I would actually argue there's probably dozens or so communities within the furry community that could probably be distinctly separate, but that nuance gets left at the door because looking in "likes fuzzy animals and stuff" all looks the same without intimate knowledge of what's going on behind the curtain. You can kinda see it in real time with groups like the Beastars fandom. There's a kind of funny divergence as "anime only" fans come to grips that they might have tripped into the furry realm. 

The short of it is we're probably never going to shake the bad taste in people's mouths because it's easy to say you're a furry or inadvertently be seen as a furry - which is good and bad. Good because big tent, more the merrier. Bad because, well, there's people out there who say they're furries while doing some seriously gross illegal stuff that we (the community at large) don't do a great job at distancing ourselves from and/or calling out.

But like, that's just like my opinion, man. Not the staff position etc etc etc.


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## Khafra (Dec 24, 2021)

FlooferWoofer said:


> For the same reason coming out served people before. I'm proud of being a furry and I feel no shame. It isn't my whole personality but it's another bright stripe of the flag in my heart and I wear it proudly.
> 
> Coming out as a furry serves:
> 
> ...


So it doesn't really alleviate any of the issues you mentioned, and really just has the same effect as anyone discovering someone has a niche hobby but also being very loud and confusing, especially for older generations who are not internet savvy. Sorry but I'm not convinced.


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## LameFox (Dec 24, 2021)

Flamingo said:


> Bad because, well, there's people out there who say they're furries while doing some seriously gross illegal stuff that we (the community at large) don't do a great job at distancing ourselves from and/or calling out.


Why would you want to? People aren't responsible for what someone in the same vague social category as them has done in the first place. Keeping track of what crimes they commit so you can perform distance for public consumption just seems like it would encourage people to keep expecting that when no such burden should exist.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

LameFox said:


> Why would you want to? People aren't responsible for what someone in the same vague social category as them has done in the first place. Keeping track of what crimes they commit so you can perform distance for public consumption just seems like it would encourage people to keep expecting that when no such burden should exist.


Specifically, I mean diddling dogs or other animals. Which, considering our whole shtick is being an anthropomorphic creature, we should probably care about people doing such while participating in the fandom. Of the many and varied issues the fandom decides to be very publicly vocal about, I would argue that's probably the most defining for our image.

If you disagree that's our responsibility as a group, all the more power to you. I respect your opinion either way.


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## LameFox (Dec 24, 2021)

I think people who associate furries with bestiality are missing the critical part of what makes bestiality unethical in the first place and I don't want to risk validating them in their views that the problem is appearance—because once you go down that path, it quickly becomes apparently there is no clear line to be drawn. Everyone has their own idea of what _looks_ too close to an animal, and for a lot of people (maybe most people?) that line is probably drawn somewhere like 'anime girl with cat ears'.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

I'm talking specifically about furries who literally fuck animals as it pertains to our overarching image, because a significant portion of the fandom revolves around exploring sexual identities with anthropomorphic creatures. What is "too animal" in art/fantasy is a separate issue in my eyes, which is only further muddled by the aforementioned group.


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## LameFox (Dec 24, 2021)

Flamingo said:


> I'm talking specifically about furries who literally fuck animals as it pertains to our overarching image, because a significant portion of the fandom revolves around exploring sexual identities with anthropomorphic creatures. What is "too animal" in art/fantasy is a separate issue in my eyes, which is only further muddled by the aforementioned group.


My point is that these are not specifically a furry issue. The association is there because of appearance, and I worry that if we act like furries in particular have some kind of duty to distance themselves from something that affects humans in general, it may actually validate that association.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

Bit late to be concerned about validating the association. We're already associated.


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## LameFox (Dec 24, 2021)

It would be late if the association was irreversible, but I don't think it is. I'm only 33 and even in my lifetime it seems to have diminished noticeably.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 24, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Always flexin' those feathers like a peacock. XD


Yos. :>

But real talk, the way I do it to make myself look more ambiguous as to whether or not I am in the fandom is that I deny I am a furry (which I'm still technically not), and I always refer to my sona as an _OC _and claim that I use him for artistic and literaturistic purposes only. That ought to keep the haters off your back.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 24, 2021)

Flamingo said:


> The short of it is we're probably never going to shake the bad taste in people's mouths because it's easy to say you're a furry or inadvertently be seen as a furry - which is good and bad. Good because big tent, more the merrier. Bad because, well, there's people out there who say they're furries while doing some seriously gross illegal stuff that we (the community at large) don't do a great job at distancing ourselves from and/or calling out.


I'll have to disagree; I feel like there's been plenty of dogpiling and witchhunting going on over allegations of this, that, and the other thing. There's multiple people whose names a large number of furries (and probably a few non-furries) will recognize _because_ of the "seriously gross illegal stuff" they were alleged to participate or have an interest in. And while I don't begrudge people the chance for informed consent in regards to who they associate with, I also don't think it's right to hold up someone's picture, point at it, and cry out a list of their supposed crimes. (I'm using "alleged" and "supposed" because I'm not judge or jury and social media etc shouldn't be, either.) If I (rhetorical I, not necessarily I specifically) don't enjoy performatively distancing myself from "seriously gross illegal stuff," why should I have to spend my happy fun hobby times doing it? Why should it be my duty to police others who happen to share an interest with me? I'm not my cousin three times removed's cousin's stepbrother's keeper.

Like, if someone's a real danger, by all means warn the people who're at risk (or the owners of animals/property at risk, etc). But does every single one of your followers need to know? Is it actually going to make a practical difference in their lives, or do you just want to extract petty social revenge by making sure more people dislike this person?

I've seen people in fandom trying to spread rumors that a particular furry is HIV+ and is deliberately having unprotected sex at cons, along with naming supposed partners and people "downstream" of them in potential spread. (To the best of my knowledge these allegations were false, but even if not, it's damaging a _lot_ of people socially for the sake of getting at one person, making the reasonable assumption that _someone_ downstream isn't a bug hunter.)
I've seen people in fandom saying, on reading a news article about some furry who got caught with a teenager, that this furry should be shot. (Yes, they may have fucked up. No, calling for their death in a way that suggests it's not even enacted by the state is not how it should go, regardless of how you feel about capital punishment.)

Nobody cares as much about the appearance of furry fandom as furries do. Not in the sense of "we want our nice thing to look nice," but in the sense of "only we really notice these specks of dirt yet we keep obsessively scrubbing at them." Sure, there's people who think all kinds of bad things about furries. There's also people who hate Dolly Parton. It obviously doesn't matter to Dolly Parton's haters how much charity she does or whatever. Why should we work on the presumption that people are going to, say, start paying attention to fandom charity (cons having designated charities etc) if only we throw a few more dirtbags under the garbage truck?

Not saying people can't change their minds, just that vocally shunning Yiffy McFoxington who diddles baby deer for lunch, breakfast and dinner isn't going to do it.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

Just going to say... moderators exist for a reason.

I don't throw around allegations or throw people under the bus but nor am I personally responsible for the actions of others in the fandom... but I also don't want it to be a space for people to participate in beastiality and find others who do. No reason to give them a platform in the Fandom just like it shouldn't shelter Neo NAZIS.

I may not be responsible for their actions but I certainly don't want to give them a platform or stronghold within the community either.


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## Khafra (Dec 24, 2021)

Foxy Emy said:


> Just going to say... moderators exist for a reason.
> 
> I don't throw around allegations or throw people under the bus but nor am I personally responsible for the actions of others in the fandom... but I also don't want it to be a space for people to participate in beastiality and find others who do. No reason to give them a platform in the Fandom just like it shouldn't shelter Neo NAZIS.
> 
> I may not be responsible for their actions but I certainly don't want to give them a platform or stronghold within the community either.


And so Godwin's law is proven once more, for no reason at all.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

Khafra said:


> And so Godwin's law is proven once more, for no reason at all.



Not no reason, NAZI Furs are a thing sadly. Was more talk about when I first joined the forum but I'm sure they are still lurking.


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## Attaman (Dec 24, 2021)

My stance on a lot of the 'Coming Out As Furry' stuff has become complicated over the years as... like:

On one hand? Yeah. It's a bit naff to consider "Furry" - in and of itself - on the same scale as significant things like finding a particular faith (or lack thereof), discovering one's gender and / or sexual identity slash orientation, and so-on. One's hobbies can be very important to them on numerous levels (very, _very_ important even). A hobby's community can provide a vital support network and the friends made along the way prove thick as thieves. But to frame it in such a way that you have to 'come out' is fairly sketchy in ways hard to put to words and without context can easily make somebody come off _awkwardly_ at best.

On the other hand, the reason that sketchiness is hard to put to words is that often times there can be _significant overlap_ between participation in the fandom and matters of faith, identity, et al. And how even if one's hobbies aren't _necessarily_ on the same level as things such as religion (or lack thereof), at the end of the day people are social creatures and crave validation and acceptance on some basic level. Furthermore, exposure to the fandom often starts at relatively early ages since practically any interest in the fantastical or fictional species invariably leads to contact with the Furry fandom (or, if not directly, then contact with something else that _is_ directly adjacent). And that exposure can lead to people who've otherwise never bothered to question certain aspects of themselves starting to do so, and I don't even necessarily mean through "Doing shit that somebody who's a minor should not be doing". Roleplay is everywhere on the internet. And while obviously somebody is unlikely to invoke deeply personal revelations at playing a Totally Original Donut Steel Lycan from an _Underworld_, they _may_ invoke such revelations from deciding they wanted to play somebody of a different sex (or androgynous, or you get my point) just to add some variety to their RP group only to slowly start to go "Wait. _Wait_."

There's a lot more back and forth to be had here, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I'd _greatly recommend_ if people didn't equate it with such announcements I can _entirely understand_ how it can take on such an importance for their mental well being.



Foxy Emy said:


> Not no reason, NAZI Furs are a thing sadly. Was more talk about when I first joined the forum but I'm sure they are still lurking.


Lurking nothing: Names shan't be shared, but we have a couple members on FAF who're currently active and posted within the last week who were openly posting that James Fields was justified in his car attack back in 2017, similarly posting in 2019 that the Christchurch massacre was brought about by multiculturalism forcing Tarrant's hand, that linked to unabashedly Neo-Nazi Youtubers... hell, a couple even comparing Neer banning explicit Nazi ideology and iconography - not people accused of such things, _content directly imitating and openly endorsing such ideology_ - to _the Nazi purges of the Holocaust. _Or to speak of past members who _have_ been dinged the final ding, there was the fun one whose final straw (after a bunch of 'degeneracy' jokes and changing their avatar to one of their OC in a SS uniform) involved them linking to their personal blog wherein they forgot they hosted a horrendously antisemetic screed and realized too late to pull the URL before a Mod saw it.

Point being, they've just become rather quiet about it now because of a mix of changing forum demographics (there was a time our number of openly identifying trans users was, like, two, and both of them were frequently harassed as a result), aforementioned expansion / enforcement of rules all the way from the top / Neer, as well as a realization that FA only enforces its rules to content posted on FA and FAF and thus saving their more overt rhetoric for places like Discord.


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## TyraWadman (Dec 24, 2021)

quoting_mungo said:


> I've seen people in fandom trying to spread rumors that a particular furry is HIV+ and is deliberately having unprotected sex at cons, along with naming supposed partners and people "downstream" of them in potential spread. (To the best of my knowledge these allegations were false, but even if not, it's damaging a _lot_ of people socially for the sake of getting at one person, making the reasonable assumption that _someone_ downstream isn't a bug hunter.)


It really makes you wonder how many of their friends/followers were lining up to sleep with this guy to justify the callout! 

People can be ridiculous. I prefer the silent/legal route. If authorities want to make a joke out of something serious, that's when I'm willing to fly off the handle and post something like tweets and journals, because it likely means that the life of another living creature is at serious risk.

I don't like the idea of spreading aimless gossip that I heard from someone, that knew someone that overheard someone say something about another user. I can understand wanting to protect unsuspecting users, but realistically, the individual most likely has selfish intentions. Assuming it isn't to outright smear them, they probably think '_well if I'm wrong then I can't be blamed because wanting to protect others is a good thing_'. People don't want to own up to the fact that they were wrong and essentially villainized someone that was innocent the entire time. They just go _"aw, show's over" _and look for the next house to throw stones at. Then what friends/family they have left will be the ones stuck trying to fix the damage that has been done and prevent the individual from offing themselves.

No one ever bothers to think, '_Gee, this guy sounds like they have some incriminating evidence against a user, they should probably submit it to the police_'. They never think, '_My friend seems to have a lot of excuses about why they can't legally do something to resolve this issue... is it possible they're lying in order to produce drama???_". And then of course, the gullible people that eat it all up continue to preach it to this day, despite never actually having any part in it, or having anything become of said drama.

*I guess the TLDR is that, 'Yes, I think there should be standards enforced within any community, but I wouldn't trust everyone to handle it responsibly. Nor would I expect each individual to carry the same passion for someone they've never heard of up until that point'. *

I don't think it's fair that so many people are accused of all kinds of illegal things, nor do I think they should be responsible to double down and police other people, just because they mention they're a furry. Swinging back around to the main topic, the peeps that are smart enough to know better, or at least ask questions before jumping to conclusions, are the ones that will matter to you.

Hooray! My brain is melting! 
Goodbye!


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

Attaman said:


> Point being, they've just become rather quiet about it now because of a mix of changing forum demographics (there was a time our number of openly identifying trans users was, like, two, and both of them were frequently harassed as a result), aforementioned expansion / enforcement of rules all the way from the top / Neer, as well as a realization that FA only enforces its rules to content posted on FA and FAF and thus saving their more overt rhetoric for places like Discord.



Uhhhhh... I was one of those openly trans users though I engaged less in conversation than the other two.

I did take a FAF hiatus before it came to a head though. Pretty sure I missed the link being posted.

Hmmm wonder why I haven't experienced much since coming back? Have I not beem rockibg enough pride?


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## FlooferWoofer (Dec 24, 2021)

Khafra said:


> So it doesn't really alleviate any of the issues you mentioned, and really just has the same effect as anyone discovering someone has a niche hobby but also being very loud and confusing, especially for older generations who are not internet savvy. Sorry but I'm not convinced.


You don't have to be convinced. The reasons I state are based on my famlial situation and experiences and might not be applicable to yours. I do agree with the title of this thread, though. "No One That Matters Cares Your A Furry" because the people who matter will love you regardless. Don't forget to love yourself too. Happy holiday.


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## TrishaCat (Dec 24, 2021)

Foxy Emy said:


> TW (Scuicide Threats, Manipulation, Abuse): That.... well that is not the stereotype I was familiar with before I knew what the Fandom was all about. I was told it was about beastiality and after I told my mom I was trans (which she did not respond well to, to the day) she told me if I ever told her I was a furry she would kill herself. So yeah... I'm living on my own and don't talk to her any more for obvious reasons. But like "Furry Being Your Entire Personality" is probably the LEAST harmful stereotype I have heard.


That's so fucked
I'm so sorry your mom was like that. She should know better than to treat her own child that way. Sorry you had to deal with that


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## Attaman (Dec 24, 2021)

Foxy Emy said:


> Uhhhhh... I was one of those openly trans users though I engaged less in conversation than the other two.
> 
> I did take a FAF hiatus before it came to a head though. Pretty sure I missed the link being posted.
> 
> Hmmm wonder why I haven't experienced much since coming back? Have I not beem rockibg enough pride?


The forum has become _significantly_ better courtesy of active moderation and - again - the general tide shifting against (openly sharing) such perspectives here. Also something something "Nails that stick out": Would you believe there was a user brazen enough to divebomb into Flamingo's profile and leave public profile comments (comments, as in: _Plural. Multiple_) accusing them of secretly being Trans as they couldn't fathom why they might have been infracted by Flamingo over transphobic posts otherwise?

Point being that wherever FAF still has to go, it's definitely seen darker days and there is something to be said about a community (with Moderator backing) openly saying "We don't want this sort of content here".


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

TrishaCat said:


> That's so fucked
> I'm so sorry your mom was like that. She should know better than to treat her own child that way. Sorry you had to deal with that


I appreciate it but I'm not looking for sympathy. I have two wonderful girlfriends who act as emotional support and the sweetest daughter in the whole world.

Only mentioned it because it seemed relevant to the topic of why new furries would feel an urge to come out and to point out that... yeah... there are people out there who may judge you that are significant in your life.

Don't assume they will me harsh without reason but don't pretend that doesn't happen to people.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

Attaman said:


> The forum has become _significantly_ better courtesy of active moderation


Thanks bb.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 24, 2021)

Attaman said:


> The forum has become _significantly_ better courtesy of active moderation and - again - the general tide shifting against (openly sharing) such perspectives here. Also something something "Nails that stick out": Would you believe there was a user brazen enough to divebomb into Flamingo's profile and leave public profile comments (comments, as in: _Plural. Multiple_) accusing them of secretly being Trans as they couldn't fathom why they might have been infracted by Flamingo over transphobic posts otherwise?
> 
> Point being that wherever FAF still has to go, it's definitely seen darker days and there is something to be said about a community (with Moderator backing) openly saying "We don't want this sort of content here".



Poked my head in and generaly see MULTIPLE active mods/admins on... part of the reason I came back. I remember when it was basically just @Flamingo online most days.

Seems I owe our resident pink bird a heartfelt thank you for making the forms a batter place!

I mod on discord and it is often thankless work (especially when you have to use the ban hammer). So thank you Flamingo! ^w^


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## Foxridley (Dec 24, 2021)

Honestly, I can't say I've had a "coming out" as a furry. I've confided in my immediate family and a few close friends, but it's not something that I share casually because there definitely is a stigma.


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## KimberVaile (Dec 24, 2021)

Judge Spear said:


> "Coming out" as a furry is objectively stupid. It's almost _insulting_. It's likening a meager interest inclusive of every walk of life to the disclosure of legitimate orientations that get people *murdered* in many parts of the world. Gamers, weebs, Trekkies, D&Der's, etc don't "come out" in hopes of unnecessary validation because they're *hobbies*. If people find out your deep dark furry secret, fine. But despite where they'd lean on it, the most conservative of them would not _disown or divorce_ you for it. Unless you incentivize it by being an incorrigible, ambitionless, and obnoxious degenerate in the name of being a furry "liFesTyLer". Every single time I have seen someone be clowned for being a furry, they did or said something absurdly stupid deserving of mockery.


This is a pretty interesting topic and I have a bit to say on it, so do excuse a bit of rambling, might get a little tangential. With that said, I think another part of this is that the reason the furry lifestyle posts come up or came up is/was related to how the furry community sees itself as a community as having something to prove. Like the hobby needs to be legitimized because it is at times held in poor regard by those outside of it.

There are a myriad of reasons why average people have a negative view of furries. Probably the biggest one is that the community does not gatekeep much, if at all. The reason Kero's name is brought up so frequently was in large part due to how weak of a response furries gave as a community to him. Even after damning evidence was released, there was a massive dedicated defense force still trying to defend him. When paired with the zoosadism chat, it's enough to have at least some revulsion at how lacking the fandom's morals are as a collective. I don't personally find pride in the hobby, just looking at who the fandom chooses to put on pedestals in of itself is something to be ashamed of. One look at furry Youtube is enough to want to never bring up the fandom to any average person.

Another still, is when furries insert themselves in hobbies or interests that aren't furry. It's the furries that unironically put their ocs in like, Battletech, or Overwatch, Doctor Who or what is popular at the time. It's the same reason people couldn't stand bronies. They constantly pushed their ocs into properties that knew no concept of furries, and I really don't blame them for finding it insufferable or cringe inducing. No, I didn't ask to see all the characters of the walking dead all as furries but thanks for the second hand embarrassment, furry fandom. No, I really didn't want to see the cast from Team Fortress 2 as big dicked werewolves, but thanks random fetish Furry artist.

I tend to agree too about the 'coming out' stuff with furries, it's a bit uncouth to liken it to coming as being gay or trans. I would think it needs to be discouraged just on the simple idea that, this seems to be the defining trait of many furries. It's the equivalent to obnoxious potheads constantly talking about how much they smoke weed, and how funny it was that they engaged in a mundane, everyday task while high. You see, it's funny cause they watched a TV show because they were high while they were watching. And that's really their only defining trait, they smoke weed and get high all the time and won't ever shut up about it.
I don't think I have to explain how ridiculous it would be if a pothead tried to come out as a 'pot lifestyler'.

I've also felt the furry community is far too insular. I don't think many furries know too many people outside the fandom, and I think that has adversely affected their social skills, to put it politely. I lost count of how many furries whose entire conversational repertoire consisted of talking about sex, shitty emojis, and maybe if you're lucky, they might talk about how tired they are of their parents yelling at them to get a job in the vent channel.

With that said, I do think there are edge cases where you were found to be a furry against your will and your friends/family are giving you shit for what is essentially a hobby. In those cases it's understandable to be frustrated or upset. In those cases, I think those people need support. Though, it's not comparable to orientation in any sense irregardless of that circumstance. There is a lot to like about the community in spite of my criticisms, I tend to feel the art that comes out of the furry community is quite remarkable, and the inclusiveness still is an overall strength. Like may things, it's a mixed bag, I think.

Though, I think somebody had mentioned already but, the lifestyle/coming out posts have died down quite a bit since the 2000s. At the very least it's gotten much less common.


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## Raever (Dec 24, 2021)

I don't have too much to say, but I wanted to say thanks for the OP, and that I agree. I never "came out" as a Furry (because I mostly just exist as a person who happens to be apart of the Furry fandom) but I did date someone who seemed to carry a lot of unnecessary hate for the community --- and that was a mistake for a lot of reasons, --- but mostly the Furry Fandom hatred wound up only being the tip of the iceberg. 

I think that if anyone has folks they care about who outwardly hate them for a fandom they're apart of even after said person tries to explain what the fandom is/what it means to them....eh, the person probably doesn't give a shit about the furry fandom member and the fandom member would be a lot happier without them probably. Anyone who hates on someone for having a passion isn't worth shit to me now. I wish I was as confident at the time, but I think the experience helped me prioritize myself over my relationships. So it is what it is.


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## Flamingo (Dec 24, 2021)

Foxy Emy said:


> Poked my head in and generaly see MULTIPLE active mods/admins on... part of the reason I came back. I remember when it was basically just @Flamingo online most days.
> 
> Seems I owe our resident pink bird a heartfelt thank you for making the forms a batter place!
> 
> I mod on discord and it is often thankless work (especially when you have to use the ban hammer). So thank you Flamingo! ^w^


I'm a bird of the people. My pleasure.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 25, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> It really makes you wonder how many of their friends/followers were lining up to sleep with this guy to justify the callout!


I can’t even remember if there was any indication of why whoever started the rumor might want to discredit them. It’s just a good illustration of why/how “calling out the people who do bad things” can be a giant harmful clusterfuck. This was something that got passed around with some supposed contact tracing diagram, meaning people two or three steps down the line also ended up in the line of fire. It’s possible some of those people were also deliberately targeted; I seem to recall that some of them might not even have been at the event where they supposedly had contact with someone else in the diagram.

Like… I’ve just seen too many big accounts get trigger-happy with the post button when they think they know something damning about someone. Which then gets picked up and repeated by their followers, often with very limited if any fact-checking, much less critical thought as to whether it’s something that needs to be passed on. The more egregious the alleged trespass, the less fact-checking seems to take place, too.

Hell, I’ve gotten _blocked_ for essentially saying “regardless of what someone did social media witchhunts are wrong, because they’re bully tactics, not justice.” I _get_ that it’s nice to be able to say “yikes” and give a wide berth to someone into something you disapprove of - goes back to the whole “informed consent about association” thing - but if that comes at the expense of ten or twenty (or a hundred, or a thousand) of people who never knew this person from Bob suddenly knowing about them _only_ as the person who (allegedly, but this is trial by public opinion at work, innocent until proven guilty need not apply :V ) did a bad, I’d just as soon remain ignorant, thank you very much. I don’t care who you’re talking about or what they did, when you start wishing (sometimes gruesome) death and violence on them you’ve lost my respect.

And yes, this is personal to me. I have had people claim I was “a literal nazi” and been accused by people with sizeable followings of shielding and/or sympathizing with same. I don’t care if you don’t like me, but there’s hell of a difference between “ugh, mungo is a bitch” and “mungo is buddy-buddy with white supremacists.” So the idea that the fandom needs more callouts and condemnation is… pretty abhorrent to me. At this point it’s been long enough that it on some level feels… not quite right to keep mentioning this, if nothing else so because long-term forum users will have heard it a hundred times. But it’s also something that’s caused me lasting trauma, including a couple of really awful flashback episodes, so I feel like it’s important to point out as an illustration of one of the reasons why we shouldn’t drag people to the figurative stocks. (I’ve also been contacted later by people who saw this going down, recognized that it was wrong, and were afraid to speak up at the time. I genuinely hurt for them, and bear them no ill will - they were protecting themselves and weren’t wrong to do so.)


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## Bababooey (Dec 25, 2021)

KimberVaile said:


> One look at furry Youtube is enough to want to never bring up the fandom to any average person.
> 
> Another still, is when furries insert themselves in hobbies or interests that aren't furry. It's the furries that unironically put their ocs in like, Battletech, or Overwatch, Doctor Who or what is popular at the time. It's the same reason people couldn't stand bronies. They constantly pushed their ocs into properties that knew no concept of furries, and I really don't blame them for finding it insufferable or cringe inducing. No, I didn't ask to see all the characters of the walking dead all as furries but thanks for the second hand embarrassment, furry fandom. No, I really didn't want to see the cast from Team Fortress 2 as big dicked werewolves, but thanks random fetish Furry artist.


I agreed with everything you said in your post except for this stuff.

There's a lot of respectable furry youtubers like Pocari Roo and LagoVirt. Sure there are some cringy furry youtubers but I wouldn't throw the good eggs to the wayside.

Also as an artist, I don't see why you have an issue with the kind of fan art furries make. People like to blend their interests together all the time so it's not exactly a furry exclusive thing. You don't have to like it, but the gatekeeping isn't necessary. Sorry that seeing furries enjoy franchises in their own way upsets you.


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## KimberVaile (Dec 25, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I agreed with everything you said in your post except for this stuff.
> 
> There's a lot of respectable furry youtubers like Pocari Roo and LagoVirt. Sure there are some cringy furry youtubers but I wouldn't throw the good eggs to the wayside.
> 
> Also as an artist, I don't see why you have an issue with the kind of fan art furries make. People like to blend their interests together all the time so it's not exactly a furry exclusive thing. You don't have to like it, but the gatekeeping isn't necessary. Sorry that seeing furries enjoy franchises in their own way upsets you.


I don't think gatekeeping fanart is needed, people are entitled to draw what they want. I don't have the right to tell people what they should draw. That said I do think some of it kind of rubs non furries the wrong way, and I think it is fair to say some of it gets too weird and fetishy. I don't think that automatically makes fanart as a whole bad. By all means, draw what you want, it's not my right to say what you can and can't draw.

I don't agree with gatekeeping over something as minor as that, that point was more to explain why non furries sometimes get put off by the fandom.

In regards to the youtuber thing, yeah there are always exceptions. But I generalize because most furry youtubers often tend to be terrible role models and influences. As for those you mentioned specifically, don't know enough to make a call. So, it'd be a bit irresponsible for me to make a snap judgment either way. Though I digress, sorry that me not liking all furry fanart upsets you I suppose.


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## Punji (Dec 25, 2021)

I'd ask about some of the things mentioned here, but I guess it's better to just let sleeping dogs lie. Some of it I assume has been coloured and tainted, some of it I'm pretty sure is exactly true, and all of it is all ancient history as far as the Internet goes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​"Coming out" has always been a bad idea in my opinion. About anything. By treating something like sexuality or hobbies in this case as something stigmatized, it effectively creates stigma around it. "Why would this person reveal personal information to me in a dramatic fashion like this? It must not be something he/she is comfortable expressing. Why is that? Is there something wrong with being X?" If we simply acted like sexuality/identity/furryism/whatever wasn't a big deal at all and never stopped to even think twice about how and when and what we revealed, people might not think much of it.

That said, coming out as a furry isn't a good idea on its own, in my opinion. This kind of behaviour conflates furries with taboo subjects and suggests too the recipient the furry is some kind of social deviant others might shun or shame. It's just a hobby, act like it and most people won't care about it.

The difference being the same as "I really love anime! " and "Hey, can I tell you something? I really love anime." One is proclaiming enjoyment of a type of media and the other has a strange or even creepy implications about the extent to which the person enjoys anime, or suggests that this is seen as a very negative thing by some people. Both are simply saying the person like anime and nothing more.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 25, 2021)

My whole take towards this subject is that other furries are going to do awkward and embarrassing things that make you cringe, like telling their family they're in love with star-fox.
Fortunately, though, it's not really worth worrying about most of the time. So I wouldn't get too stressed about feeling like you need to prevent it from happening._ It's going to happen_; might as well just chuckle at it.


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## Kinguyakki (Dec 28, 2021)

Filter said:


> I've never come out as a furry, as I think that's much weirder than being a furry itself, but people do know that I like animal characters (among other things). Just be you. The label is optional, and only useful where there's shared understanding. Maybe, over time, it will become more acceptable in popular culture, much like heavy metal did after the Satanic Panic lost steam and faded into obscurity.


 This.  This right here.
I cringe when I hear people in the fandom talk about "coming out" like it has to be this big announcement to the friends and family.  It doesn't.
I've literally never heard of people in other fandoms talk about it like they have to "come out."  Do Tolkien fans?  Do Trekkies?  Do Star Wars fans?  It's just something they like.

But, I also cringe when someone who is REALLY into something, that I have no interest in, tries to talk my ear off about it.  I used to work with a guy who was REALLY into Pokemon stuff.  He played in Pokemon card tournaments all the time, and was always talking about his strategies.  I get that it was exciting to him, but I did not care.  There's nothing about Pokemon or card game tournaments that I want to be talked to about.  He never caught on to that, but people at work actively avoided starting conversations with him after a while because that's all he ever talked about.

It's the same way with the furry fandom.  It's got kind of its own subculture, and unless you're with someone else who is interested, you're probably better off keeping your "furry" stuff low-key.


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## Bigjackaal48 (Dec 28, 2021)

Attaman said:


> The forum has become _significantly_ better courtesy of active moderation and - again - the general tide shifting against (openly sharing) such perspectives here. Also something something "Nails that stick out": Would you believe there was a user brazen enough to divebomb into Flamingo's profile and leave public profile comments (comments, as in: _Plural. Multiple_) accusing them of secretly being Trans as they couldn't fathom why they might have been infracted by Flamingo over transphobic posts otherwise?
> 
> Point being that wherever FAF still has to go, it's definitely seen darker days and there is something to be said about a community (with Moderator backing) openly saying "We don't want this sort of content here".


I actually took a break from here because anything LGBT/Disabled would provoke trolling by users deeply self unaware on how incapable of arguing a point without resorting to insults and quite nasty personal attacks. While crying about they hate furries as if anyone gives a toss?.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 29, 2021)

Fallowfox said:


> My whole take towards this subject is that other furries are going to do awkward and embarrassing things that make you cringe, like telling their family they're in love with star-fox.
> Fortunately, though, it's not really worth worrying about most of the time. So I wouldn't get too stressed about feeling like you need to prevent it from happening._ It's going to happen_; might as well just chuckle at it.


Well, for some people though - it's not just a chuckling issue..... (as I laid out in my posting above, that one can read).... many feel that it's a part of their holistic identity also, as a person.... and thus, they want to share that identity with others that are important to them and that they care about.

And so, whether it's _quote un-quote_ "embarrassing" is probably in the eye of the beholder, I'd say..... and with that, sometimes it's better just to let people do what they need to do for themselves, and hold off on the mockery, ridicules, and judgement calls that others can often times make, in these situations.

And so... if it doesn't bother anyone else, then..... well, let it be and let them do so.


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## Raever (Dec 29, 2021)

I also think that the member base just winds up weeding out those folks as well, since a lot of the time most of the adult members tend to just ignore trolls and they wind up not getting the attention they crave. The ones that do stick around are the ones that either make other members happy, add deep thought to the conversations, or both. But I think that the active moderation is also a heavy part of why the community (at least on this forum,) is starting to become more tolerable than it may have been previously. Either way, it all comes down to whether or not you're able to ignore drama and carry on with your life.


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## ConorHyena (Dec 29, 2021)

Do not kill the cringe.

Kill the part of you that cringes.

I have spoken.


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## Raever (Dec 29, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> Do not kill the cringe.
> 
> Kill the part of you that cringes.
> 
> I have spoken.



In some ways, I am deeply amused by cringe culture. 
But that might just be the early 2000's in me talking.


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## Outré (Dec 29, 2021)

When I was a kid and teenager I was a pretty hardcore Trekkie…. I remember I never told many people cuz I use to get teased and harassed about it and stuff… but then eventually Star Trek some how became acceptable and even cool to like. Kinda seems like a lot of Furries Are where Trekkie’s were 30 years ago.


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## Kinguyakki (Dec 30, 2021)

Chomby said:


> Also as an artist, I don't see why you have an issue with the kind of fan art furries make. People like to blend their interests together all the time so it's not exactly a furry exclusive thing. You don't have to like it, but the gatekeeping isn't necessary. Sorry that seeing furries enjoy franchises in their own way upsets you.


I don't think it's so much that people "cringe" at furries inserting furry characters into art from other franchises.  It's more like, when that kind of art is done, and then pushed/advertised in fan groups from that franchise, especially if it contains any kind of NSFW material.  Or, just iconic movie scenes done with furry characters.  That's fine within the fandom.  Other fandoms might not be as open to seeing "their" characters in furry form, especially if it's depicting a NSFW situation or scene.  It's not necessary to push franchise-based furry art on other fandoms, IMO.


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## ferretsage (Jan 4, 2022)

There are six different types of furries who would do so much better in life if they just piped their public profile down a little bit. Just a little bit. Just... a little... bit...


The Coomer Furry -- has no intention of doing anything with his furry fetish that consumes his existence, or his shortened sedentary life, but shame-filled lonely sexual release. Has recurring nightmares of his imaginary furry husbando sex targets coming to life and haunting him for long term relationships as he ages through the sexual prime of his life without any dates -- demanding he take responsibility for his own emotional state. Yet, happily and proudly finds the time to post EVERY GADDAMN LURID DETAIL of his stunted sexual existence to every non-furry group online behind a veil of the perceived anonymity of his fursona.
The PG Fursuiter -- 30 years old and dresses up and/or performs in colorful cartoon animal costumes for completely innocent non-sexual reasons. I count this as weirder.
The "I'm a real animal" Furry -- who wears a buttplug tail, and gets an erection being forced to eat very non-dog-food items out of a dog dish. Just like a "regular normal dog" (arf arf) he genuinely mistakes himself to be. Also keeps close track of age of consent laws in every area of the Earth -- and reports on it daily like a weatherman.
The Otherkin -- meow meow UwU I'm an anime purple cartoon demon witch cat with sparkles. Take my job application for a professional position seriously as I groom and bathe myself with my tongue like a cat during the job interview.
The Militant Weirdo Schizoid Furry -- he's gunna stick it to the Man, and put an end to George Soros, the Illuminati, and pedo Jeffery Epstein's network... by building a werewolf sex cult compound out in the woods -- chock full of guns. Those future applicants seeking to become his faithful undyingly loyal subjects, but who are tragically not on his personal turn-on list, need not apply. Posts to Twitter every 15 minutes that Trump won the election.
The Interdimensional Space Alien (trapped in the body of a 55 year old Canadian pensioner) -- looking for hosts to spawn satanic hellbabies in. Wishing his dating pool wasn't limited to socially stunted furries like himself. Other furries mistake him for a white supremacist when he tries to convince them of the importance of preserving his dying race and future for his offspring -- by letting him deposit his alien larvae into their chest cavity. Don't dare tell him what gender he is; it's MA'AM -- a masculine pronoun that goes with he/him. His house and rules.
All of these above six categories would benefit from a good cup dozen full coffee pots of STFU. I'm not saying don't be your weird wild crazy -- bat-guano eating crazy -- selves (except for those furries who need to go to jail for (war) crimes against animals and humanity); I'm just saying, "Apply tact, and situational awareness, at least."


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## KimberVaile (Jan 4, 2022)

Kinguyakki said:


> I don't think it's so much that people "cringe" at furries inserting furry characters into art from other franchises.  It's more like, when that kind of art is done, and then pushed/advertised in fan groups from that franchise, especially if it contains any kind of NSFW material.  Or, just iconic movie scenes done with furry characters.  That's fine within the fandom.  Other fandoms might not be as open to seeing "their" characters in furry form, especially if it's depicting a NSFW situation or scene.  It's not necessary to push franchise-based furry art on other fandoms, IMO.


Yep, this essentially.
The combination of sexualizing and furryizing those characters from different groups is a commonly cited reason for other groups having a pretty sizable amount of discomfort/aversion towards the furry fandom, IIRC. Though the same applies with clean furry art, groups outside the fandom aren't always super fond of it/happy to see it. Anywho, that's probably a good caveat. If that type of stuff mostly stays in the furry fandom, it's not as cringe inducing, but so often I see it pushed way too hard to non furry fandoms. Personally it's a little cringe to me if you draw a bunch of stuff from a non furry media property and sex them up. Though, I'd never discourage it or demand it be removed. It's good to laugh at yourself once in a while though.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 5, 2022)

Kinguyakki said:


> I don't think it's so much that people "cringe" at furries inserting furry characters into art from other franchises.  It's more like, when that kind of art is done, and then pushed/advertised in fan groups from that franchise, especially if it contains any kind of NSFW material.  Or, just iconic movie scenes done with furry characters.  That's fine within the fandom.  Other fandoms might not be as open to seeing "their" characters in furry form, especially if it's depicting a NSFW situation or scene.  It's not necessary to push franchise-based furry art on other fandoms, IMO.


Well... that could be true in some cases; but... there are some others (in other Fandoms) who may wish to see this type of art material also; and so.... for the small slice of people in those communities that may want it, (no matter how small the number may be) - then... (there are many of us who will say) they should be able to get it and have it, if they want..... and not worry so much about the negative ramifications on what others may think or do.... when they encounter it.

If we worried about the potential negative ramifications all the time, then.... many types of art pieces might not have been made at all, simply because it might be unpopular...... and - that (in turn) may chill artistical creativity and speech as a result; which.... would probably help no one.


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## ConorHyena (Jan 5, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> If we worried about the potential negative ramifications all the time, then.... many types of art pieces might not have been made at all, simply because it might be unpopular...... and - that (in turn) may chill artistical creativity and speech as a result; which.... would probably help no one.


for once I agree with you Connor


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 5, 2022)

ConorHyena said:


> for once I agree with you Connor


Well, thank you.... that's good to know, I guess...... my points on this issue are "spot on" I think..... unless @Kinguyakki begs to disagree.


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## Nexus Cabler (Jan 5, 2022)

A lot of the time from my opinion, is that being a furry is only as big of a deal as you make it.


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## Kinguyakki (Jan 5, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, thank you.... that's good to know, I guess...... my points on this issue are "spot on" I think..... unless @Kinguyakki begs to disagree.


No, no I agree for the most part.  I've seen some great crossover art.

The only time it really makes me cringe is when the artist does NSFW furry versions of characters that are human in the original franchise/story.  That's my personal thought on the matter, just because I find a lot of furry NSFW to be pretty cringy, anyway.


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## ferretsage (Jan 6, 2022)

Kinguyakki said:


> No, no I agree for the most part.  I've seen some great crossover art.
> 
> The only time it really makes me cringe is when the artist does NSFW furry versions of characters that are human in the original franchise/story.  That's my personal thought on the matter, just because I find a lot of furry NSFW to be pretty cringy, anyway.



This. A porn drawing of two gruff, scruffy, gay, cartoon werewolves knocking boots -- what's their backstory? "They're Disney Planes' characters." May God pity, and provide everlasting sanctuary, to the fool who dares to correct, "No, they're not. These horny, heaving, beastly, toothy animal monsters look absolutely NOTHING like Disney's Planes characters. In fact, they'd be better, and attract more attention, as their own characters." Learned my lesson on the mushroom cloud of hurt feelings, drama, and bitter vengeful grudges still hanging over that one.

Another pathetic peeve is when a furry draws a real life person as a furry in love with them. Like, a furry drew Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson as a werewolf boyfriend in love with them. Furry version looks absolutely NOTHING like The Rock -- no similar physical features at all -- I think the furry version looked like a heavily bearded, hairy, mountain prospector in plaided flannel, but with an additional pair of arms -- like Goro from Mortal Kombat. But, he's not a wrestler. No. Nor is he a lumberjack. No, he's an accountant. And gay. And very soft-spoken and meek. And he bakes pies in the kitchen with a heart apron. "Are... are... you sure that's Dwayne the Rock Johnson?"

ke-SPOW-BRRROOWOWOWOWOWOWOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM! 50 megaton Tsar Bomba on that one. Horizon to horizon glowing ashen mushroom cloud. The type of instant backdraft flame war that goes from 0 to the spontaneous atmosphere ignition of open holocaust comparisons in 0.2 seconds. "No." I calmly replied, "No, nothing you've ever experienced as a pampered manchild compares, in any way, to the holocaust. And The Rock would never be interested in such a thin-skinned infant like yourself."


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## Baalf (Jan 6, 2022)

Being a furry is not something that you should have to hide. It is something that Society basically forces you to hide or else you become it's punching bag. A lot of people say it's because people don't understand furries. Frankly, I just think people are parasites. People just want to leech off your misery for their own enjoyment. That has been my personal experience anyway. Not to mention humanities wavering opinion of nature and animals and anything that doesn't look like them.

All I can say is that I've been on the internet long enough to know for an absolute fact: Kinks are not exclusive to furries. Weight gaming.com specializes in fat-kink games, and while furry fat-kink games are allowed, the website focuses primarily on fat human artwork and games. Feet, diapers, and a few others are ALSO found in human artwork. Just think of a random kink, and there is probably human artwork of it as well, but I'm mostly talking about the ones that are just as common among people who draw humans. If there are people that only have a problem with it when furries do it, that is hypocrisy.

Also, you must have more willpower than me, because if I found out MY friends hated furries, they would not be my friends anymore. I've been around too many prejudiced people to accept something like that. Also this whole entire topic feels like another attempt to demonize furries and destroy the community. (No. I haven't changed)


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 6, 2022)

I'm more and more feeling this thread is (becoming?) an excuse to police other people's furriness, and shit on people who don't furry the way you (gen) think they should. Like... you may feel that people being "loudly" furry reflects badly on you, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is objectively wrong. There's queer people who think Pride parades reflect badly on them, but people who enjoy participating in those parades have no responsibility to protect those people's image. I'll readily acknowledge that drawing parallels between being furry and LGBTQ+ anything is treacherous ground at best, but this is not intended to be read as an equivalence, it's intended to be "here's an obvious example using the same general class of logic." The solution to other furries being "cringy" is simple: don't engage in that "cringy" behavior. There. Simple.

In part because furries are disproportionately young and young people do have a tendency to dive into things 110% when they discover a community that resonates with them. Chances are they'll chill out over time; there's a whole lot more people fitting the "goth" aesthetic in high school than there are among 30-somethings, yanno? (Or at least that was true when I was in high school.) Being nasty to them about how they present in the meantime doesn't accomplish anything beyond, maybe, making them feel like there's something shameful about being furry. And really? Do we, as a community, as a society, need that?

In part because, as I've previously touched on, it's fucking impossible to be performatively rejecting of [insert behavior here] enough to satisfy whatever group you think hates furries because of that behavior. If you want to revive the Burned Furs movement with the aim to make furry fandom more acceptable to non-furry groups, you're going to be disappointed. You can bring individuals around through being, for lack of a better word, a "good example," but you cannot "clean up" the fandom enough to make a group magically drop their preconceived notions.

Are there people who marry their identities as furry with illegal acts? Yes. But they're not engaging in those illegal acts _because_ they're furry.

Are there people who bring their interest in furry stuff into other interest groups (not a great word but...)? Yes. There's also plenty of furries who bring their other hobbies into furry spaces. And we don't demonize these people. (By and large, I know there's been some hostility towards MLP and Sonic fandoms specifically.) It's okay for a furry to also be a Trekkie, so it should also be okay for a Trekkie to also be a furry. And if people bitch, let them fucking bitch. You consume and create the content you want to consume and create.

Like... I'm kinky. I draw furry kinky shit. If kinksters bitch, that's their problem.
I know kinky people who aren't furries who browse e621 because it has a good tag system.
I know furries who'll view kinky furry art because it's good furry art, even though the kinks in question aren't their jam.
Live and let live and all that jazz.

This isn't me saying "let all the everything hang out and fuck social decorum." It's me saying "if it wouldn't be offensive without fur, don't fucking worry about it."


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## Fallowfox (Jan 6, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> I'm more and more feeling this thread is (becoming?) an excuse to police other people's furriness, and shit on people who don't furry the way you (gen) think they should.



In fairness some furries are into being shit on. :}
God bless their furry little hearts. 

I do agree with you though. I think this is another situation where furry is comparable to the drag community.


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## ferretsage (Jan 6, 2022)

Furries ogle fantasy hunky animal monster husbandos, but, in reality, are all bitter venomous wine aunts who are incensed by any skills that pull them out of their heads. Furries hate family bonds and family skills because they threw both those babies out with family values. Furries also screech when poked by someone who actually wants them -- even to help them deal with their mountains of baggage. Then, then the self-loathing furries get all defensive and suspicious and backbiting towards their foolish suitor who beats himself a hasty exit. This leads to more loneliness. And banning the sources of pain that remind furries of their loneliness -- even the challenges to stop being lonely. Like the threatening prospect of finding a hot Saturday night date. I pity all of your therapists.

The fandom is the embodiment of toxic unskilled unmarriable matriarchy carried to total failure.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 6, 2022)

Oh okay, it's starting to make sense now. I'm guessing this is about your_ own_ insecurities, isn't it, ferretstage?

I _am_ sure there is someone out there for you. 
However, while posting comments on the internet telling other people that you believe they are bitter and venomous may make you temporarily feel better, it's not going to help you confront loneliness you feel in the long term. 
At best all you'll achieve is making some twenty-somethings who already feel insecure or depressed feel momentarily slightly more depressed before they forget about you. At the end of the day it will still be you in front of a computer, typing complaints into the internet. 
Is this really how healthy people improve their self esteem?


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## LameFox (Jan 6, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> Furries ogle fantasy hunky animal monster husbandos, but, in reality, are all bitter venomous wine aunts who are incensed by any skills that pull them out of their heads. Furries hate family bonds and family skills because they threw both those babies out with family values. Furries also screech when poked by someone who actually wants them -- even to help them deal with their mountains of baggage. Then, then the self-loathing furries get all defensive and suspicious and backbiting towards their foolish suitor who beats himself a hasty exit. This leads to more loneliness. And banning the sources of pain that remind furries of their loneliness -- even the challenges to stop being lonely. Like the threatening prospect of finding a hot Saturday night date. I pity all of your therapists.
> 
> The fandom is the embodiment of toxic unskilled unmarriable matriarchy carried to total failure.


Is this copypasta


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## Rimna (Jan 6, 2022)

I disagree with the title of this thread uwu


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## Flamingo (Jan 6, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> Furries ogle fantasy hunky animal monster husbandos, but, in reality, are all bitter venomous wine aunts who are incensed by any skills that pull them out of their heads. Furries hate family bonds and family skills because they threw both those babies out with family values. Furries also screech when poked by someone who actually wants them -- even to help them deal with their mountains of baggage. Then, then the self-loathing furries get all defensive and suspicious and backbiting towards their foolish suitor who beats himself a hasty exit. This leads to more loneliness. And banning the sources of pain that remind furries of their loneliness -- even the challenges to stop being lonely. Like the threatening prospect of finding a hot Saturday night date. I pity all of your therapists.
> 
> The fandom is the embodiment of toxic unskilled unmarriable matriarchy carried to total failure.


You're totally an old burned fur, aren't you? I can smell it from here. The burned fur, that is.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 6, 2022)

When I was younger I would sometimes break off some hair and stick it into the flame of a burning candle just to hear that little _TSS_.
Not bald, I swear!


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## Kumali (Jan 6, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> meow meow UwU I'm an anime purple cartoon demon witch cat with sparkles.



THIS is the greatest sentence ever written in the entire history of the English language.


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## KimberVaile (Jan 6, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> I'm more and more feeling this thread is (becoming?) an excuse to police other people's furriness, and shit on people who don't furry the way you (gen) think they should. Like... you may feel that people being "loudly" furry reflects badly on you, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is objectively wrong. There's queer people who think Pride parades reflect badly on them, but people who enjoy participating in those parades have no responsibility to protect those people's image. I'll readily acknowledge that drawing parallels between being furry and LGBTQ+ anything is treacherous ground at best, but this is not intended to be read as an equivalence, it's intended to be "here's an obvious example using the same general class of logic." The solution to other furries being "cringy" is simple: don't engage in that "cringy" behavior. There. Simple.
> 
> In part because furries are disproportionately young and young people do have a tendency to dive into things 110% when they discover a community that resonates with them. Chances are they'll chill out over time; there's a whole lot more people fitting the "goth" aesthetic in high school than there are among 30-somethings, yanno? (Or at least that was true when I was in high school.) Being nasty to them about how they present in the meantime doesn't accomplish anything beyond, maybe, making them feel like there's something shameful about being furry. And really? Do we, as a community, as a society, need that?
> 
> ...


I can only speak for myself, but I think I can see your point to an extent. It's easy for the previous sentiments to snowball into a call to police other furries for things that I'd consider fairly harmless. I'd still attest that furries do a lot of cringe inducing things, but, I tend to think it's funny rather than harmful. Just personally speaking of course. Though some outsiders usually don't take it that way.

I guess I would ask. Is furry cringe a problem to be solved? I don't feel like it is, but I know others feel strongly about it. Should furries worry about what other fandoms think? Well, as a whole, I suppose not? I guess personally speaking the sexed up furry version of media properties like Dr Who or what have you give me some second hand embarrassment, but. Well as I said, it's easy to laugh at that than to get legitimately mad. Should people outside the fandom be given consideration? Well, sure at the very least, I don't feel like the community art section of that fangroup shouldn't be flooded with risque furryzed art of their media. If it stays within the fandom I'd think it's hard to consider that a huge underlying problem. I suppose I'd like the crossover stuff to be handled with a teeny bit more decorum, but personally, that's not a huge issue for me. I admit I do often worry about the Fandom's public image though. I often wish that it was seen as more respectable to others, but I often have to admit to myself that the Fandom does often give good reason for people to view it poorly. I can admit a big part of why I am so adverse to telling people about the hobby is due to how poor the image is.

But I agree, I don't think being rude to furs making art that is cringy is at all a good step to take. I mean, by all means, l encourage laughing to yourself if they do something silly, but I'm not about shouting them down.

I feel like the Burned Furs thing is a huge step in the opposite direction that I really don't agree with. That's essentially going from one extreme to another. I still attest that better gatekeeping is needed for dangerous individuals of course. Though, I think there is a gulf of difference between you know, a sex offender and somebody who draws silly/cringy art. Silly art's just silly after all.

As for the kink/fetish stuff. Full disclosure, not entirely sure how far the kink rabbit hole goes with you, nor is it appropriate to ask, but with that said. I have plenty of kink/fetish/whatever stuff I like/look at. So I definitely don't want it to seem like I'm preaching from a moral position. I'm just another sinful heathen and I don't feel at all that there is anything wrong with kink/fetish stuff.

That said, I still wish the Furry Fandom got on better with other communities and had a better image, you know? I get where you're coming from. I do think part of my initial reply did come off a bit too harsh towards you know, sexual fan art, my initial intent was to explain more why other communities aren't fond of furries, but I think I should have phrased it less as an indictment an more as a matter of fact observation. So, for my part I apologize for that. That's bad on me. I think Fallow mentioned that you know, it's better to laugh at those things than to worry.  And that's a fair enough take away I think. I do still beleive the fandom should be a little more considerate of social decorum of course, but I think at least when it comes to this, I can see your point too. Shouldn't really err into policing.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 7, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> That said, I still wish the Furry Fandom got on better with other communities and had a better image, you know? I get where you're coming from. I do think part of my initial reply did come off a bit too harsh towards you know, sexual fan art, my initial intent was to explain more why other communities aren't fond of furries, but I think I should have phrased it less as an indictment an more as a matter of fact observation. So, for my part I apologize for that. That's bad on me. I think Fallow mentioned that you know, it's better to laugh at those things than to worry. And that's a fair enough take away I think. I do still beleive the fandom should be a little more considerate of social decorum of course, but I think at least when it comes to this, I can see your point too. Shouldn't really err into policing.


It’s all good. I don’t personally see a strong reason to worry too much about the odd piece of art featuring furry Captain Kirk getting his freak on with assorted aliens, as long as the place is appropriate for sexual content in general. There should be enough non-furry fanart being generated that it’s a drop in the bucket and if you (gen) don’t like it the scrollbar’s right there, yanno?

Like… it puts furry “cringe” in a new light if you spend a few hours browsing the A/B/O (totes not furry ) tag on AO3. It’s basically furry porn without the fur. Not saying that in mockery, just as a… there’s content that might as well be furry grown out of non-furry contexts in fandoms. By now it’s a pretty staple trope in the fanfic community.

I do believe furries often overestimate how many fucks other fandoms give about us. There’s a lot of friction between groups within fandoms that aren’t really seen unless you happen to be part of circles where it gets discussed. Like… I’m pretty sure the animosity between proshippers and “antis” within fan communities is a lot stronger than whatever beef they have with furries. (And let’s just say that the whole “there are sex offenders hiding among us” thing is very not unique to furry fandom, so fuck the idea that we have more of a duty than anyone else to condemn offenders.)

Social decorum for me is a separate issue, and something that may _also_ in part be related to the relatively low average age of furries. Goodness knows teenage me had a lot to learn, and I was still not as bad as some of my peers.

Not trying to make light or dismiss your experience with holding back your fandom affiliation because you anticipate backlash. Your experiences are valid and I’m genuinely sorry you feel like you need to do that. Myself I find I’m getting too damn old to care - I’ll be open and upfront with being furry and if someone doesn’t like that, they can give my content a miss.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 8, 2022)

Kinguyakki said:


> No, no I agree for the most part.  I've seen some great crossover art.
> 
> The only time it really makes me cringe is when the artist does NSFW furry versions of characters that are human in the original franchise/story.  That's my personal thought on the matter, just because I find a lot of furry NSFW to be pretty cringy, anyway.


@Kinguyakki Oh..... well..... I appreciate your response..... and certainly, no one needs to apologize for disagreeing with me on anything ☺...... (in fact I welcome it) - because often times I find that conflicting points of view can offer up new ways of thinking for us all about doing or believing in certain things.

But, with that said - I do think there *are* many Fandom members of this genre (Furry-ness) that indeed *do* enjoy seeing these types of (formally) human characters transformed, into..... (I guess we'll call it): a "Furry-tized" character..... and thus, for those out there that may want that, enjoy that, and (indeed) artistically create that - then, I do think those of us (within on our fandom) shouldn't need to apologize to others in other fandom's, simply because there's some "cross-over appeal" for certain characters that aren't necessarily Furry to begin with.

But as I said above - I take your points that there are others out there who may "beg to differ" with this sort of content, and they're certainly free to disagree....... just so long as many of us in this fandom will say - they're not "being disagreeable" about it.


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## ferretsage (Jan 8, 2022)

Flamingo said:


> You're totally an old burned fur, aren't you? I can smell it from here. The burned fur, that is.



Thank you for illustrating my carefully measured point. Namely, when a furry calls a stranger -- someone they don't really know or understand -- a "Burned Fur" -- a highly esoteric jargon buzzword most people outside the fandom would never understand -- we must ask what is the next closest commonly understood epithet, that a layman would understand, did the furry actually want to use instead. You are the fandom with a decades-cultivated renown Internet reputation for comparing every pampered grievance you ivory towered fetishists encounter to the holocaust, after all. Let's put aside the fact that you've forgotten that I am a person. Let's focus on how dehumanizing others is a trait furries share with the people they, supposedly, hate.

Of course, I am mindful that you are furries. You glorify the replacement of the human with the bestial. Perhaps your attempt to dehumanize me is a compliment.

I've been around furries (read: by and large, opportunistically bi and large, culturally rootless, poorly-raised white people) for a very long time. If my response seems canned, it's because it almost is, at this point.

After all, why would a moderator call a stranger a Burned Fur unless they were deliberately trying to invoke anger, and looking for an excuse to ban? I'm sorry, I see what you're getting out of the accusation, and troll, but what opportunity have you provided the Other to dignify yourself?


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## ConorHyena (Jan 8, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> I've been around furries (read: by and large, opportunistically bi and large, culturally rootless, poorly-raised white people) for a very long time. If my response seems canned, it's because it almost is, at this point.


Okay so here's the thing I don't get

If you clearly find furries so distasteful (which is fine, we all have groups we don't like) then _why are you here?_ 

I'm sure there's groups of unopportunistically straight, small, culturally rooted, well-raised people out there that you can spend your time with. 

I mean I get having gripes with the fandom. But in the end, content filters exist and partaking in certain group activities or talking to certain people is a choice. *your* choice.


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## Flamingo (Jan 8, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> Thank you for illustrating my carefully measured point. Namely, when a furry calls a stranger -- someone they don't really know or understand -- a "Burned Fur" -- a highly esoteric jargon buzzword most people outside the fandom would never understand -- we must ask what is the next closest commonly understood epithet, that a layman would understand, did the furry actually want to use instead. You are the fandom with a decades-cultivated renown Internet reputation for comparing every pampered grievance you ivory towered fetishists encounter to the holocaust, after all. Let's put aside the fact that you've forgotten that I am a person. Let's focus on how dehumanizing others is a trait furries share with the people they, supposedly, hate.
> 
> Of course, I am mindful that you are furries. You glorify the replacement of the human with the bestial. Perhaps your attempt to dehumanize me is a compliment.
> 
> ...


You wasted a lot of time on a harmless question and attempting to project some sort of moral authority with pseudo analysis. I'm from that era of the community and found what you posted funny. But you do you.


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## Troj (Jan 8, 2022)

IMHO, nothing says "I'm a deeply-insecure teenager" like cringing at people _just_ for being tall poppies. Cringing at people _just_ for being unashamedly or contentedly furry is the real cringe. Real adults don't get bent out of shape about how a TikTok of a 12-year-old in a homemade fursuit singing an off-key song from FNAF or whatever will supposedly make them look.

From my perspective, the only "cringe" is when furries don't respect other people's boundaries or personal space, when they don't respect basic social norms, and when they do things that are illegal or actively harmful to real people, real animals, and/or the world/society at large.


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## KimberVaile (Jan 8, 2022)

Troj said:


> IMHO, nothing says "I'm a deeply-insecure teenager" like cringing at people _just_ for being tall poppies. Cringing at people _just_ for being unashamedly or contentedly furry is the real cringe. Real adults don't get bent out of shape about how a TikTok of a 12-year-old in a homemade fursuit singing an off-key song from FNAF or whatever will supposedly make them look.
> 
> From my perspective, the only "cringe" is when furries don't respect other people's boundaries or personal space, when they don't respect basic social norms, and when they do things that are illegal or actively harmful to real people, real animals, and/or the world/society at large.


I mean, I wouldn't call it getting bent out of shape to find the cast of the Avengers furryized and defecating into each others mouths as a not totally normal thing, but uhh sure? I mean I have to wonder how people can't laugh at the absurdity of what comes out of the fandom sometimes. I mean, it'd be pretty silly to assume showing somebody art like that wouldn't make them cringe and/or laugh. There is a point where you kind of need to laugh at yourself and not be super uptight about things.

I do think there is a difference between cringing to yourself and specifically targeting somebody for it of course. But I mean, there's a point where you have to feel a little second hand embarrassment at times, and it's easier to just laugh it off.
Now, at least as far as I understand it, cringing is something related to feeling second hand embarrassment. Of course that definition could be wrong as it is just how I understand it, but it's not a terribly uncommon feeling. Everybody feels that way now and then. Cringe as a term gets this sort of visceral, hostile connotation I feel, but that isn't always a sort of you know mocking sentinemnt. At least some of the time, I feel like it can be more of a relatable moment, like a 'yeah I've done terrible home videos as a kid too, haha. That was embarrassing.'
People do silly and perceived embarrassing things at times, that's fine. I know I have. Just don't be an asshole about it and harass them for it. There's a difference between feeling a certain way about an action, and going out of your way to target somebody for said action.


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## Raever (Jan 8, 2022)

I feel like this thread is going completely off the rails at this point, and can be summed up rather easily...

_1. Furries just wanna chill; *be chill to avoid unnecessary drama*
2. It's best to keep the NSFW/Kink personal or properly tagged (in fandom or not) *to avoid unnecessary drama*
3. Telling people irl about a fandom they neither know nor care for likely will *only cause unnecessary drama*
4. Being apart of a fandom you hate is kind of dumb; *leave it to avoid unnecessary drama*_

....I think I'm seeing a pattern here, mate.

Personally speaking, I've never been actively hated on for being a Furry outside of the one time I dated a very immature individual who felt it was "funny" to threaten to "murder all furries" (*and claimed to be serious about it). Suffice it to say that relationship didn't last long, and I only said something about it because I was willing to pay a good sum of money to get art for the two of us as a way to express affection through a SFW medium I was passionate about at that time.

Anyhow, outside of that personal mistake, I've never been bullied for being a Furry by my friends, and my current SO is supportive of it as well, and she's not even a Furry. Not to mention this entire forum is part acceptance part troll, so I'm not really bothered here either. You just ignore/block the trolls and you're set. The only real environment I see furries regularly bashed on are things like Tumblr and Twitter but websites like that tend to thrive off of hate-content and cringe. So it feels kind of silly to look at that as an example and go, "See!?!? Society DOES hate us!!"

Really it's the easiest fandom to be apart of, and those who think otherwise, likely shouldn't be putting themselves through the stress of being actively apart of it if they can't handle the 1% that drools all over their keyboard every once in awhile. This is coming from someone who's been apart of the fandom to some degree for the better part of 15 years now. So I'm not at all new to the scene and I've certainly seen my fair share of questionable content from both sides of the spectrum...but at the end of the day, I went looking for trouble in my youth because I was curious about what I'd find. Now that I'm an adult, and I just vibe, I find that the fandom wants to just vibe with you.

What's so bad about that?

In short: Just do you.



Troj said:


> From my perspective, the only "cringe" is when furries don't respect other people's boundaries or personal space, when they don't respect basic social norms, and when they do things that are illegal or actively harmful to real people, real animals, and/or the world/society at large.



I'll drink to that.



ferretsage said:


> ...



This feels a little much (*on either side). If you're unhappy in the fandom, why not find a better one? It's just a hobbyist group after all. I'm sure there are other artistic avenues for you to enjoy if you think that all furries are venomous and - by extension, - "undeserving" of your respect. If you're answer to leaving is anything other than "Sure, see ya!", chances are, you might not actually feel that way. I'm sorry for whoever/whatever made you this bitter, and I hope that you can heal from it and grow as a person. It sucks to be stuck in a narrow mindset. No chances of seeing the beauty in things that way.


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## rekcerW (Jan 8, 2022)

haha faf is starting to go full-circle, it's neat. there's a few of these posts kicking around from over a decade ago


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## Troj (Jan 8, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> I do think there is a difference between cringing to yourself and specifically targeting somebody for it of course. But I mean, there's a point where you have to feel a little second hand embarrassment at times, and it's easier to just laugh it off.
> Now, at least as far as I understand it, cringing is something related to feeling second hand embarrassment. Of course that definition could be wrong as it is just how I understand it, but it's not a terribly uncommon feeling. Everybody feels that way now and then. Cringe as a term gets this sort of visceral, hostile connotation I feel, but that isn't always a sort of you know mocking sentinemnt. At least some of the time, I feel like it can be more of a relatable moment, like a 'yeah I've done terrible home videos as a kid too, haha. That was embarrassing.'
> People do silly and perceived embarrassing things at times, that's fine. I know I have. Just don't be an asshole about it and harass them for it. There's a difference between feeling a certain way about an action, and going out of your way to target somebody for said action.



Fair point! I think it's perfectly reasonable to cringe, shudder, gag, or wince at _content_ that is embarrassing, badly-executed, repulsive, or otherwise-poor-quality, and I think it's normal to feel secondhand embarrassment, say, at someone bombing at open mic night, or someone not realizing that they're bombing at open mic night.

I was referring more to when people cringe or rage at furries for basically _just_ existing without apology, because they consider being an identifiable or known furry ipso-facto embarrassing or shameful. That itself is honestly pretty cringe!


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## ferretsage (Jan 8, 2022)

ConorHyena said:


> Okay so here's the thing I don't get
> 
> If you clearly find furries so distasteful (which is fine, we all have groups we don't like) then _why are you here?_
> 
> ...


I really don't hang out with furries a lot. Because I do find the community distasteful. Click on my avatar for my stats. 16 year old FAF account, but 155 posts, qualifies as fairly inactive. You'd have a point if I was a forum regular, but checking the FurAffinity Forums two or three times a year to see how the furries are doing, for maybe 15 minutes and laughing at some of you, doesn't count as a "WHY ARE YOU ONE OF US", sorry. I've even dumped furries from my social media accounts, reposting right-wing content -- not that I necessarily believe in it -- but, it can't all bad if it wards furries off like garlic. Thanks for the question though.


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## Nexus Cabler (Jan 8, 2022)

This is possibly the fourth or fifth ‘I dislike the fandom but I’ll engage on their platforms and converse with them enough to make my opinions noticeable’ account I’ve seen that shows up in threads randomly.


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## LameFox (Jan 8, 2022)

People aren't just gonna remind _themselves_ that some random disapproves of them, are they? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## ferretsage (Jan 8, 2022)

Raever said:


> This feels a little much (*on either side). If you're unhappy in the fandom, why not find a better one? It's just a hobbyist group after all. I'm sure there are other artistic avenues for you to enjoy if you think that all furries are venomous and - by extension, - "undeserving" of your respect. If you're answer to leaving is anything other than "Sure, see ya!", chances are, you might not actually feel that way. I'm sorry for whoever/whatever made you this bitter, and I hope that you can heal from it and grow as a person. It sucks to be stuck in a narrow mindset. No chances of seeing the beauty in things that way.



This a response I, actually, like and resonates. I said goodbye to being a furry a while ago. The, "Sure, see ya!" is kind of implied. Like I mentioned just above, I'm not really here on all that frequent a basis. I feel that the ways my leaving the fandom have helped me heal and grow have not been in ways most furries would like. Basically, at the end of it, I came to a low point and a crossroads in life where I had to contrast the social and political values of furries that led to an absence of lives, family skills, and legacies to the social and political values of the people that led to lives, family skills, and legacies. The latter being people that furries have always derided. I didn't like how badly the furries lost.

I thought I could maybe help a group I once closely was a part of. But, as a furry, you might've guessed how furry fantasy crowd reacted to the idea of "get your shit together", even when presented as something fun and rewarding. I found ALL -- yes, ALL, 100% -- of furries I interacted with were content to drool at a screen at a fantasy. So, I had to say, "Hey, I might not like what the fundies have to say, but they have functional lives and end up with homes and families rather than lonely apartments and menial jobs to pay for paywall subscriptions". And brutally stating how lowly and wretchedly where furry culture led its own people outside the Internet was the worst. And I had to make a judgement and decision. And I made that call.

I don't like my new worldview, granted by tough love friends, but I'm being shown the difference between success and failure repeatedly. It's really best that Furry remains just a hobby. Or, for others, discarded in the trash.

I do want to thank you for at least a modicum of kindness. That's the first first time I've encountered that. Doesn't in anyway offset my well-formed conclusions about this culture of self-neglect, but it's noted. Thank you.


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## ConorHyena (Jan 8, 2022)

This thread has become the cringe it has sworn to destroy.


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## Troj (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm a fan of getting your shit together, and I honestly do think more furries could stand to do exactly that----but, I also think a lot of _non-furries_ could stand to do the same, because not having one's shit together isn't strictly a furry problem, of course.

Obviously, there are healthy and unhealthy ways to indulge in fantasy and escapism, participate in a community, or indulge in an interest, passion, or hobby. I think it's also important to remember that squeaky wheels often get the grease, so to speak, so we may overlook or not notice the people who are boringly competent and together. (Naturally, it also matters how we define "having one's shit together." Does it entail being gainfully employed? Academically successful? Able to maintain a household? Hygienic? Socially competent? Psychologically or emotionally stable, mature, or well-adjusted, according to some metric? Is it enough to check off boxes, or must one exceed the usual expectations? Some or all of the above? Something else?)

I think it behooves us to ask ourselves _why _so many furries don't seem to have their shit together, and what the deeper factors and common denominators are there, because_ just_ liking animal-people isn't the problem from my POV. (And I might have some hypotheses in a pinch.)


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 8, 2022)

I can say with quite a bit of confidence that furry fandom is very low on the list of things that may have contributed to me not being in the kind of life situation I would wish to be in at this point in my life.

Like, sure, I don’t have all my shit together. 90% of that is probably mental health issues (possibly at this point also long COVID, but I will likely never know on that count). There’s been one singular event involving furry fandom that may have fucked with my mental health in any significant, lasting way. And most of the long-term effects of that seem to be mostly isolated to, specifically, my interactions with fandom. Not exactly world-changing in the grand scheme of things.

But, like… there’s also the issue of… how do I put it? Be careful that you’re not applying your own life goals/aspirations to others. Let’s say I did have my life together in the way I would want it. Some people would scoff because I’d probably be working a “dead end” job with little to no career opportunities. That’s not me not having my shit together, that’s me wanting different shit than you do.

I do know that people going out of their way to be nasty on furry forums aren’t what’s going to sort out my depression, anxiety, and the crud that’s accumulated in the corners of my brain over a decade or more of both. I don’t think “furries are losers” is exactly a strong motivator for _anyone_ here.


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## reptile logic (Jan 8, 2022)

Was going to write something meaningful here, decided not to, then decided that I was going to write that I decided not to write something meaningful, here. Ya know what I mean, or am I just bein' mean?

This message is for no one that matters, and everyone who doesn't. Replies to this message of mine are meaningless, but that's never stopped the mean from meaning what they mean.


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## Yakamaru (Jan 8, 2022)

reptile logic said:


> Was going to write something meaningful here, decided not to, then decided that I was going to write that I decided not to write something meaningful, here. Ya know what I mean, or am I just bein' mean?
> 
> This message is for no one that matters, and everyone who doesn't. Replies to this message of mine are meaningless, but that's never stopped the mean from meaning what they mean.


hmmm yes htis is ver meanfingful. i agree whaever ever it is.

**hugs*


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## Fallowfox (Jan 9, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> This a response I, actually, like and resonates. I said goodbye to being a furry a while ago. The, "Sure, see ya!" is kind of implied. Like I mentioned just above, I'm not really here on all that frequent a basis. I feel that the ways my leaving the fandom have helped me heal and grow have not been in ways most furries would like. Basically, at the end of it, I came to a low point and a crossroads in life where I had to contrast the social and political values of furries that led to an absence of lives, family skills, and legacies to the social and political values of the people that led to lives, family skills, and legacies. The latter being people that furries have always derided. I didn't like how badly the furries lost.
> 
> I thought I could maybe help a group I once closely was a part of. But, as a furry, you might've guessed how furry fantasy crowd reacted to the idea of "get your shit together", even when presented as something fun and rewarding. I found ALL -- yes, ALL, 100% -- of furries I interacted with were content to drool at a screen at a fantasy. So, I had to say, "Hey, I might not like what the fundies have to say, but they have functional lives and end up with homes and families rather than lonely apartments and menial jobs to pay for paywall subscriptions". And brutally stating how lowly and wretchedly where furry culture led its own people outside the Internet was the worst. And I had to make a judgement and decision. And I made that call.
> 
> ...



I am not convinced that your offer of 'help' to people is altruistic.
I think you are trying to persuade _yourself _that you can take comfort in the knowledge that there is somebody beneath you in the social hierarchy.

This is what makes me believe your offer for help might actually be a request for it. 
Because, obviously, whatever has happened in your life has lead you here- browsing random internet boards, full of people you claim to despise, trying to convince them about how much better you believe you are than them- even returning multiple times to quote posting statstics to try to prove to them that you're not obsessed with them.

What do you want in life, Ferretsage? Whose company would make you happy and what is preventing you from pursuing that happiness?


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## MaelstromEyre (Jan 10, 2022)

ferretsage said:


> This a response I, actually, like and resonates. I said goodbye to being a furry a while ago. The, "Sure, see ya!" is kind of implied. Like I mentioned just above, I'm not really here on all that frequent a basis. I feel that the ways my leaving the fandom have helped me heal and grow have not been in ways most furries would like. Basically, at the end of it, I came to a low point and a crossroads in life where I had to contrast the social and political values of furries that led to an absence of lives, family skills, and legacies to the social and political values of the people that led to lives, family skills, and legacies. The latter being people that furries have always derided. I didn't like how badly the furries lost.
> 
> I thought I could maybe help a group I once closely was a part of. But, as a furry, you might've guessed how furry fantasy crowd reacted to the idea of "get your shit together", even when presented as something fun and rewarding. I found ALL -- yes, ALL, 100% -- of furries I interacted with were content to drool at a screen at a fantasy. So, I had to say, "Hey, I might not like what the fundies have to say, but they have functional lives and end up with homes and families rather than lonely apartments and menial jobs to pay for paywall subscriptions". And brutally stating how lowly and wretchedly where furry culture led its own people outside the Internet was the worst. And I had to make a judgement and decision. And I made that call.


I'm not sure how extensive your interactions within the fandom are, to say that 100% of the furries you've known were "content to drool at a screen at a fantasy."  

The only thing 100% of the furries I've known have had in common, is that they have some level of interest in animals as characters.  

Beyond that, their preferences for art and music and entertainment and "fantasy" are vastly different.  

Many of us exist as completely functional adults, with meaningful and healthy friendships and adult relationships, higher education or experience in skilled trades, careers, homes, hobbies and interests that aren't even related to the furry fandom.  

I'm sorry that your personal experiences in the fandom came from surrounding yourself with those you deem "failure" of society, but people like what you describe certainly aren't exclusive to the furry fandom, or any "fandom."  Are there furries who spend their money on art, fursuits, and travel to cons when they can barely make rent payments?  Yes, I'm sure there are.  Just as there are sports fans who buy season tickets for their favorite team while the car they rely on to get to work is about to break down.  People make bad decisions sometimes, when it comes to their passions.

If you decided that your personal life goals and ambitions were being limited by the people you associated with, I congratulate you for recognizing that and moving on to find people more aligned with your mindset.  Sometimes it's something you have to do to be happy in life.  Sometimes friends just drift apart, finding they no longer have as much in common as they used to.


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## Judge Spear (Jan 10, 2022)

I simply ask that when this is inevitably locked, a mod stickies it to be seen by the furries of a distant age. Since, as mentioned, the other one Mentova made _years _ago was unstickied for some godforsaken, likely stupid as fuck reason.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 10, 2022)

@Judge Spear 

Why take this so seriously anyway though? 
Broadly it's only the occasional teenager who comes here and feels worried about whether their pastor discovers they are furry. 

and I think we can just laugh at that situation and tell them it's no big deal, and that's fine.


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## Troj (Jan 10, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> I am not convinced that your offer of 'help' to people is altruistic.
> I think you are trying to persuade _yourself _that you can take comfort in the knowledge that there is somebody beneath you in the social hierarchy.
> 
> This is what makes me believe your offer for help might actually be a request for it.
> ...



Aye.

I could see going back into the slums and the brothels to preach to the unconverted (so to speak) because you genuinely care about their welfare, or because you will win brownie points in some form for "winning" those souls.

Otherwise, making a point to go back to one's high school reunion or crummy small town to show off how much better you are now always indicates the presence of old wounds, unresolved traumas, and/or deep-seated insecurities that are keeping a person tethered to that past, such that they need to seek reactions or approval from those other supposedly-inferior or supposedly-irrelevant people. Granted this sort of "ritual" can sometimes help a person to gain essential and healthy closure, so it's not necessarily a bad thing--but, if a person keeps looping back again and again to their old haunts to gloat, sneer, leer, or proselytize, it signals to me at least that they haven't yet gotten that closure, for whatever reason.

On another note, I reckon people being content to drool over a fantasy on a screen obviously describes more than _just_ furries, and arguably points to a deeper problem inherent in our society and/or human nature itself.


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## Judge Spear (Jan 10, 2022)

Taking it seriously would be me arguing in the thread and being overly defensive. But I just posted the OP and left it until now.
I've had thoughts about this off and on because it's common beyond this forum in my experience. I just saw a few threads here at the time of typing it that spurred me to say something.

I care _enough_ to do that obviously, but it's not causing me sleep costing grief or anguish.


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## Raever (Jan 10, 2022)

So, anyone catch the game last night?


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## TyraWadman (Jan 10, 2022)

Raever said:


> So, anyone catch the game last night?


The one with the ball?
Did you chase it on your screen?


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## Raever (Jan 10, 2022)

TyraWadman said:


> The one with the ball?
> Did you chase it on your screen?




 
DID YoU!?


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## MaelstromEyre (Jan 10, 2022)

Raever said:


> So, anyone catch the game last night?


Yay sports!


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 11, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Why take this so seriously anyway though?
> Broadly it's only the occasional teenager who comes here and feels worried about whether their pastor discovers they are furry.
> 
> and I think we can just laugh at that situation and tell them it's no big deal, and that's fine.


Hmm.... I'm not so sure that "coming out" should necessarily be mocked or "laughed at" by people simply bacause some others (out there) may find the notion of coming out as a Fur somewhat "cringe worthy".

As I mentioned earlier, IMO: there are those out there who often times take it "up a notch" and in turn regard their Furry-ness as not only a hobby, but also - a part of their holistic identity; (meaning): it often times "makes up" a part of who they are as people, they feel. And so..... the mockery from others, or - the diminishing of the importance of it, (many of us will say) on the other hand - isn't really necessary; when it's an important enough of an issue for someone to feel they need to do that for themselves.

And so, while it may seem like a facially trivial issue... for some others it's important, and so - *regardless* of what others in the fandom's reaction may be, it's a process that many of us also feel, (like myself) that should, at the very least, be respected..... if for anything, respect towards that other person who feels they need to do that for themselves.

And in regards to teenagers, this is especially so - as those types of folks are dealing with an enormous amount of issues already at that age; and thus - minimizing the importance of them "coming out" could in turn contribute (in a negative way) to their mental well being. And that helps no one...... even though the recipient may feel it's cringy or a joke.
----------------------------------
My posting here sums up (I think) well, what many of us feel, on this type of issue:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> Or... they may simply like you too much as a person, to really care about any of your perceived "shortcomings" (they may hold) in drawing these sorts of things.... and in that case, they're great friends to have and to keep. ☺
> 
> @Judge Spear Well..... yeah - it is just a hobby and an interest, many of us will agree with you there...... *but* there are some people (out there) who also consider it more than "just a hobby" - for any number of reasons.... be it: personal growth and development, personal interests (as a lifestyle), or even... as a part of their sexual orientation.... and thus - they believe that being a Furry is a part of their "holistic identity"..... and in turn - it's more than just a hobby for them; it's a part of who they are as people..... which in turn is something they want to divulge and "come out to" others about.
> 
> ...


----------------------------


Judge Spear said:


> I've had thoughts about this off and on because it's common beyond this forum in my experience. I just saw a few threads here at the time of typing it that spurred me to say something.
> 
> I care _enough_ to do that obviously, but it's not causing me sleep costing grief or anguish.


Well.... I for one, am glad you brought it up....... as it's often times threads like these that gets people to think, about issues they probably didn't think about before.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 11, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Hmm.... I'm not so sure that "coming out" should necessarily be mocked or "laughed at" by people simply bacause some others (out there) may find the notion of coming out as a Fur somewhat "cringe worthy".
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, IMO: there are those out there who often times take it "up a notch" and in turn regard their Furry-ness as not only a hobby, but also - a part of their holistic identity; (meaning): it often times "makes up" a part of who they are as people, they feel. And so..... the mockery from others, or - the diminishing of the importance of it, (many of us will say) on the other hand - isn't really necessary; when it's an important enough of an issue for someone to feel they need to do that for themselves.
> 
> ...


It's more about whether coming out about a hobby is necessary in a broader sense. A lot of people take on identity labels associated with hobbies they're passionate about; "hobby" isn't a pejorative. By making it a "coming out" gravity issue, you may instead prime the recipient to read more into it than there really is - it indicates that you're anticipating a negative reaction and/or feel that it's something to feel ashamed about. I think "coming out" and being rejected because you anticipated rejection and the recipient perceived that is a lot more damaging to one's mental health than being told by older, more experienced furries that it's really not necessary to make such a big deal of it.

And that's like 90% of the advice I see being given. Unless you have solid reason to believe you'll face violence or get kicked out on the street over it, just continue to do your hobby and neither make a point of telling people nor make a point of hiding it. No one is engaging in open mockery; what @Fallowfox was most likely referring to was the kind of chuckling to oneself that more experienced people can do when they see the same situation happening with new actors on a regular basis, not "ha ha, you silly kid, you're being ridiculous."


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 11, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> It's more about whether coming out about a hobby is necessary in a broader sense.


Well, as I said above, it's certainly debateable on whether it is or not....... and that's probably in the eye of the beholder. But, (based on your reply) it's *sounding like* my posting may be taken as a criticism...... and for the record - I'm not criticizing anyone specifically, and I'm not mocking someone else's (potential) mockery.

I'm merely pointing out that it *is* an important enough issue for some people to feel that they need to do this with others..... and so, even if the recipient (with whom they're coming out to) may feel it's a "cringe worthy" topic to hear about, or.... they feel it's a joke.... or, they feel it's not important enough for them to do this..... (on the flip side of that): for the person that's doing it - it is important enough..... and so, out of simple respect for the person who's coming out, if the recipient has any concern for the well-being of the person that's telling them this, then..... (there are many of us who will say): at least "humor it" enough so that this person's emotional well-being is taken into consideration.



quoting_mungo said:


> A lot of people take on identity labels associated with hobbies they're passionate about; "hobby" isn't a pejorative. By making it a "coming out" gravity issue, you may instead prime the recipient to read more into it than there really is - it indicates that you're anticipating a negative reaction and/or feel that it's something to feel ashamed about.


Well no, it's not a pejorative..... but for those out there that take it up another level whom regard it as a part of their "holistic identity" (as I wrote above), the term "hobby" isn't really appropriate.... as it's much more to them than just that. It's a part of who they are as people....... basket weaving (for example) would be a "hobby", whilst being a Furry is an *identity* for some..... and to equate one level of extracurricular interest with an identity characteristic is not really accurate, isn't appropriate, and (dare I say) - could even be considered offensive (to some).



quoting_mungo said:


> I think "coming out" and being rejected because you anticipated rejection and the recipient perceived that is a lot more damaging to one's mental health than being told by older, more experienced furries that it's really not necessary to make such a big deal of it.


Well, there's a bit of _"different strokes for different folks"_ at work there...... for some: coming out as a Fur is an important part of their development, and an important part of their personal realizations about who they are as people.

And anticipating rejection from the general (non-Fur) public, is probably a given..... and in terms of coming out about anything (not just Furry-ness) there's always a degree of risk involved. And the person who's expressing themselves had to gather up enough courage to do so to begin with, and...... the potential for rejection was probably in their minds when they decided to do this, and thus...... they obviously felt comfortable enough to go to this person..... and so, in regards to other "more experienced Furs" as you call them - for them to be mindful of this dynamic and process, is even especially more important..... even if one may want to scoff and think this isn't personally necessary.



quoting_mungo said:


> No one is engaging in open mockery


I never said they were.



quoting_mungo said:


> what @Fallowfox was most likely referring to was the kind of chuckling to oneself that more experienced people can do when they see the same situation happening with new actors on a regular basis, not "ha ha, you silly kid, you're being ridiculous."


Well.... (let's be honest): it could be argued that it's still an insensitive thing to do (even if it's done privately with just people we know)..... and so, given the potential gravity of these issues that one holds, and them deciding to do this with others (that they trusted) - one should (at the very least) probably keep their amusements to themselves perhaps.... and just take into account the other person's needs that is doing this.

As an identity characteristic that someone feels is important - isn't really something to laugh about to begin with, many of us believe.


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## BadRoy (Jan 13, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> Taking it seriously would be me arguing in the thread and being overly defensive. But I just posted the OP and left it until now.
> I've had thoughts about this off and on because it's common beyond this forum in my experience. I just saw a few threads here at the time of typing it that spurred me to say something.
> 
> I care _enough_ to do that obviously, but it's not causing me sleep costing grief or anguish.


It's one of those threads that every other newbie feels the need to make. Even years ago you'd see those "UwU Coming Out as a Fuwwy to My Pawents, Need Hewp" threads.

It doesn't make for an interesting discussion because the consensus is always "Idk dude, if you think you should then do it." It's a non-starter.


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## MaetheDragon (Jan 13, 2022)

I think the whole ‘coming out as a furry’ trend really did start with teenagers or children who have been picked on in school, for the most part. To me, that’s where I’ve seen people get judged for being a furry the most. So to say that it’s not a big deal to some would be inaccurate.

The best thing to do in this situation is to be confident in what you like! If it’s difficult to tell people about it, then simply take it one step at a time. Gradually expose your interest in the furry fandom, and once people see you’re not backing down and that having an interest in furry is harmless, I find people stop bothering you about it.

As an adult, however, I find that most furry hate is found on the internet. Outside of that, you might get passing comments of ‘that’s weird’, but they usually leave it at that. It’s very rare to find an adult in real life that’s openly outspoken against furries. Sure, you could get laughed at if you’re walking around in fursuit in public, but let’s be honest, fursuits look ridiculous. Embrace that ridiculousness! Learn humility, laugh with them instead of getting overly sensitive.

That’s all I have to say about the matter, just have confidence in what you like, and if someone doesn’t like it, just walk away. They’re not worth your time.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 14, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, as I said above, it's certainly debateable on whether it is or not....... and that's probably in the eye of the beholder. But, (based on your reply) it's *sounding like* my posting may be taken as a criticism...... and for the record - I'm not criticizing anyone specifically, and I'm not mocking someone else's (potential) mockery.
> 
> I'm merely pointing out that it *is* an important enough issue for some people to feel that they need to do this with others..... and so, even if the recipient (with whom they're coming out to) may feel it's a "cringe worthy" topic to hear about, or.... they feel it's a joke.... or, they feel it's not important enough for them to do this..... (on the flip side of that): for the person that's doing it - it is important enough..... and so, out of simple respect for the person who's coming out, if the recipient has any concern for the well-being of the person that's telling them this, then..... (there are many of us who will say): at least "humor it" enough so that this person's emotional well-being is taken into consideration.
> 
> ...


@quoting_mungo I guess silence is golden .... when I make good points, I must say. 


MCtheBeardie said:


> As an adult, however, I find that most furry hate is found on the internet.


It is; which is great because you just turn it off, when needed.


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## MaetheDragon (Jan 14, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> @quoting_mungo It is; which is great because you just turn it off, when needed.


This is true! That should be put into practice more often, as well.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 14, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> @quoting_mungo I guess silence is golden .... when I make good points, I must say.


I have better things to do than go over the same ground again. 

The advantage of being a (at least moderately intelligent) social species is that you can learn not only from your own but also other people's experiences. I can't stop anyone from approaching their parents, voice shaking with trepidation, to say they're furry. I _can_ tell them that making a big deal of it increases the risk of a negative response. It's still their choice whether they take the advice, but I reject the notion that giving the advice is, itself, in any way harmful. No matter how much "furry" is a part of your identity.

There's plenty of people who live and breathe their professional or hobbyist identities. Furries aren't unique in that regard.


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## Raever (Jan 14, 2022)

MCtheBeardie said:


> So to say that it’s not a big deal to some would be inaccurate.



**I know that you gave your two cents on this but I felt so inclined to agree that I wanted to offer mine for the newbies as well.

_*Is*_ getting picked on in school a big deal??
Does any of our childhood bullying really come up passed the age of Eighteen? Or even Fifteen?
How did these playground bullies even find out in the first place? 

I'm pretty sure after a certain age (*for me it was around senior year) everyone just stops giving a shit...about everything. You could say you believed in the flying spaghetti monster and people would just shrug or go along with it as a joke. I know that I was bullied as a preteen back when being alternative was still frowned upon and being gay was a way to be insulted instead of tokened but even then it all stopped way before I was ever an adult. I'm not saying bullying isn't bad and that we shouldn't have empathy towards those being bullied, but I do think that in hindsight...it has very little precedence to this sort of topic. Due to just how...unimportant it all winds up being in just a year or two. I dunno. Maybe I just got lucky and it all "magically" stopped when I stopped giving a shit myself, lol.


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## Kinguyakki (Jan 14, 2022)

Raever said:


> **I know that you gave your two cents on this but I felt so inclined to agree that I wanted to offer mine for the newbies as well.
> 
> _*Is*_ getting picked on in school a big deal??
> Does any of our childhood bullying really come up passed the age of Eighteen? Or even Fifteen?
> ...


Agreed.
Being bullied sucks.  It does.  I think it's probably worse now than it was when I was a kid, because Internet/Social Media/Texting was not a "thing" then.  It just wasn't.  And there was never really a fine line of who would get bullied and who wouldn't.  And I saw friend groups suddenly decide to reject one of their own, completely turn on them and bully them.  I also saw people who were bullied in the younger grades suddenly become accepted and even popular when they were older.  I don't know if there's any explanation.  Kids can be horrible to each other when they think it will benefit themselves somehow. I wish I could say that school staff has finally figured out how to handle these situations, but even now I think they just overlook incidents.

Within a year of finishing high school, I had other things going on in my life and the things that happened in high school were already a distant memory.  The people I was friends with, and the people I didn't get along with, just weren't in my life no matter how important I used to think they were.


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## Eremurus (Jan 15, 2022)

Real life interaction I had with a roommate/friend of mine:

*Browsing FaF*
"Oh, you're a furry?"
"Yeah."
"Cool, what's her species?"
"Oh you know, she's just a Tauren, from World of Warcraft."
"Neat."
"Thanks"

*Goes back on his computer*

I don't really know why you'd want to advertise it to random strangers, anyways. Or why you'd announce it. I do not think it is a big deal. It is not a core part of my identity, it is simply a hobby I enjoy.

But then again, I am not everybody. Some people are very expressive and extroverted. I am not. I tend to be collected and introverted.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 16, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> I have better things to do than go over the same ground again.


Well, TBH - your posting did smell a bit like bait to me, to begin with..... but, I did want to cover those points anyway, because I thought that - given the overall context of the discussion, I felt it was important to add these points.

In any case, I think my points are correct, in regards to the issues that the OP was bringing up.... especially in regards to adults, who live the "lifestyle".

And as far as younger people go - as I said, their personal well-being and safety is what comes first; and in those cases, it may be better to keep it to yourself, until they've moved out or... it's safe for them to bring this up.


quoting_mungo said:


> The advantage of being a (at least moderately intelligent) social species is that you can learn not only from your own but also other people's experiences.


Well, no kidding..... that's why Forums like this are important for some people to read and to be exposed to, as that way there, they can hear other points of view that they may not hear or read anywhere else.


quoting_mungo said:


> I can't stop anyone from approaching their parents, voice shaking with trepidation, to say they're furry. I _can_ tell them that making a big deal of it increases the risk of a negative response.


Well, that's kind of what I said, above:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> And anticipating rejection from the general (non-Fur) public, is probably a given..... and in terms of coming out about anything (not just Furry-ness) there's always a degree of risk involved. And the person who's expressing themselves had to gather up enough courage to do so to begin with, and...... the potential for rejection was probably in their minds when they decided to do this, and thus...... they obviously felt comfortable enough to go to this person.....


And so, if they felt comfortable enough in going to a certain person whether they're an adult or a younger person.... if they feel they need to do this for themselves, then... who are we to judge?

We ought to give them our feedback (if they read it) like on here, and then... let them make up their own minds. But I don't think the "sky is falling" mentality (which may strongly encourage people not to do this) isn't always correct, for every situation.


quoting_mungo said:


> There's plenty of people who live and breathe their professional or hobbyist identities. Furries aren't unique in that regard.


Well, again... no kidding.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 16, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, TBH - your posting did smell a bit like bait to me, to begin with..... but, I did want to cover those points anyway, because I thought that - given the overall context of the discussion, I felt it was important to add these points.


You've been here long enough, Connor, that frankly you should have picked up by now that I don't _do_ baiting, shitposting, and things of that general nature. I may be blunt at times, when I feel the situation warrants it, or lean a bit into tough love territory, but that's as far as I go.



Connor J. Coyote said:


> And as far as younger people go - as I said, their personal well-being and safety is what comes first; and in those cases, it may be better to keep it to yourself, until they've moved out or... it's safe for them to bring this up.


That's where we seem to differ; the presumption that it by default won't be safe, or will be actively harmful, to not treat an interest in furry fandom as some big secret. Obviously if you (gen) have good reason to believe it'll be received poorly, then absolutely hide it, but otherwise I will continue to advocate (particularly to young folks) "don't hide it, but don't go out of your way to actively tell people, either." Keeping secrets, especially if those secrets are something you feel is part of your identity, is stressful. That's, in my understanding, part of why queer people feel relief after coming out, sometimes even after getting a negative response.

Full disclosure, at this point in my life I do tend to mention being furry in profiles - mostly because I use the same usernames pretty much everywhere so chances are people will come across it anyway. Plus anywhere I post visual art there's going to be furry content sooner or later and I'd rather let people know up front than be surprised down the road. But that's in the same breath as I mention drawing, writing, having cats, etc., so while it's not entirely "don't hide, but don't tell," it's definitely not making a bigger deal of it than any other aspect of my life that's likely to come up sooner or later.



Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, that's kind of what I said, above:
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...





Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, again... no kidding.


I'm not going to gaslight you and dictate what you said and did not say. However, your delivery did not come across, from where I was standing, as having much in common with what I've been arguing. To me it very much read as supporting the idea of "coming out" or else keeping things secret. What you said about "anticipating rejection" being a foregone conclusion seemed more like "it's obvious that people would feel this way, and quite reasonable to expect rejection for being furry" rather than "well, if you are considering 'coming out,' you probably have the idea stuck in your head that it's going to be a rejection-worthy subject for other people."

Similarly, you did seem to me to be painting out furry lifestylers as unique among hobbyists:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> It's a part of who they are as people....... basket weaving (for example) would be a "hobby", whilst being a Furry is an *identity* for some..... and to equate one level of extracurricular interest with an identity characteristic is not really accurate, isn't appropriate, and (dare I say) - could even be considered offensive (to some).



If I was off in my reading, fair enough. Communication can be tricky like that.

I will note that with a couple of notable exceptions (like... "getting very in-your-face bodymods and been on TV" notable, or socially impaired due to neurodivergence to where they'd have trouble fitting in regardless of what hobby they dove headfirst into) all the adult lifestylers I can think of having met/interacted with have been quite "respectable" by societal standards. The "cringy" lifestylers seem to be more of an online phenomenon; part of that may honestly be because a certain segment of the online population find poking them with a stick entertaining. None of us present at our best when repeatedly provoked.


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## KippLink (Jan 16, 2022)

If you think about it's rather crazy that even with the official year of 2022 this fandom is still dealing with same amount of nonsense as it was years and years ago. So yeah we have some odds that will always seem strange to the rest of society but being around for so long its should have become mainstream by now but nope so many folks are still kicking off a fuss about it like furies landed on this planet just yesterday and shocked the world....


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 20, 2022)

quoting_mungo said:


> You've been here long enough, Connor, that frankly you should have picked up by now that I don't _do_ baiting, shitposting, and things of that general nature. I may be blunt at times, when I feel the situation warrants it, or lean a bit into tough love territory, but that's as far as I go.


Yeah, you don't strike me as the type, but... hey - I just say what's on my mind.... and that thought came across to me as I wrote my reply above, the other day.
-----------
In any case..... I stand by my points above though; especially when it comes to those that feel it's a part of their identity, regardless of their age.... (or, if they're living the lifestyle)...... and in those situations, coming out may be a necessary thing for them to do, from their vantage point.... and, they should just be supported in that process, I think.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 21, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Yeah, you don't strike me as the type, but... hey - I just say what's on my mind.... and that thought came across to me as I wrote my reply above, the other day.
> -----------
> In any case..... I stand by my points above though; especially when it comes to those that feel it's a part of their identity, regardless of their age.... (or, if they're living the lifestyle)...... and in those situations, coming out may be a necessary thing for them to do, from their vantage point.... and, they should just be supported in that process, I think.


Anyway...... (the cruxt is):  that people should just humor the kid, yo...... (if he comes to you).
It may be a little uncomfortable at first, but it's not the end of the World.


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## Troj (Jan 21, 2022)

That suiter may not have brought joy to their parents, but that image has, in a way, brought joy to millions around the world so...mission accomplished?


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## Raever (Jan 21, 2022)

I'm pretty amused so it's a success in my eyes


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 25, 2022)

Troj said:


> That suiter may not have brought joy to their parents, but that image has, in a way, brought joy to millions around the world so...mission accomplished?


@Troj Well, if he/she felt that they needed to do this for themselves, and they get some sort of emotional benefit out of it that helps them, (which in turn allows them to be more honest about who they think they are as people) then... yeah - it is mission accomplished.


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## NumbersNumbersNumbers (Jan 26, 2022)

I am not gonna lie, I have never agreed with a post more than I do rn. 

I do not understand what the obsession is with making a hobby or general interest an integral form of identity and the fact people do this at all is strange to me. As an LGBTQ person that is both Pan and trans (Nonbinary) coming out is generally something that is a major revelation in ones life, and yes can lead to you getting disowned, abused, and even killed in some places. The world is not a very nice place for LGBTQ people at large and our battle to be seen as a human has been long and hard. I have faced homophobia and transphobia before and it can be pretty brutal. And the fact that there are still laws around the world that ban people like me is pretty disheartening and quite frankly scary. 

Its ok to tell people what your interests are since being a furry and liking anthro are is an interest. I feel that is kinda why this forum exists, to help spread that interest. But you do not need to "come out" as one. Because last time I checked you do not "come out" as an artist, chess player, puppeteer, or reenactor. You just tell people you do those things and they are like "ok".  I feel like the people who do this are just thirsty for attention and want to ride off of the backs of LGBTQ people who had to come out in order to live their true authentic lives (although do not take his as meaning you cannot be LGBTQ and a furry at the same time). And as much shit as furries get on the internet at large that is not equitable to actual systemic oppression.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 26, 2022)

As an aside, I just wish that 'coming out' as gay didn't have to be inseparably convolved with the mettle of transcending systemic oppression.

But I guess that is the world for a lot of us.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 27, 2022)

OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> I do not understand what the obsession is with making a hobby or general interest an integral form of identity and the fact people do this at all is strange to me.


Well, the concept is kinda simple for many people that do this; they simply view it as *not* a hobby, but in fact, a part of their identity.... (like, being left handed, wearing glasses, and yes being GLBT).

Others are certainly free to disagree with that mind you, but... the fact that there are some people out there who feel this way about themselves, goes to show that it should probably be respected, if for anyhting that person's needs and desires to come out.

It's debateable whether this is needed, (like in my postings above said on here).... but - there *are* people that are going to do this and feel that they need to, and so..... whether the recipient agrees, understands, or even approves of them doing this - respecting their need to do so is key, people like me will say; as...... when we respect (or at least, humor) the process they are going through, we are in turn respecting the individual that's doing it.

And so, it should probably be humored, at the very least...... (many of us will say) especially when it comes to "lifestylers" who not only consider it a part of their holistic identity, but also, a part of their daily lives.



OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> It's ok to tell people what your interests are since being a furry and liking anthro are is an interest. I feel that is kinda why this forum exists, to help spread that interest.



It does, in many ways.... as forums (such as this) often times helps spread the word, certainly..... which in turn allows us to discuss issues like this in the first place amongst ourselves.... and so, whatever one may label being Furry - a hobby, an interest, and yes - a lifestyle, a venue such as this allows all points to be heard, even when they're not necessary popular or well received.


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## Baron Tredegar (Jan 27, 2022)

I personally against the whole "coming out as a furry" thing. However, in some areas people knowing you are a furry and like that stuff could get you disowned.


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## NumbersNumbersNumbers (Jan 27, 2022)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Well, the concept is kinda simple for many people that do this; they simply view it as *not* a hobby, but in fact, a part of their identity.... (like, being left handed, wearing glasses, and yes being GLBT).


I feel like you purposely fucked up the acronym because you think you are being smart by doing so. 

But to respond to the entirety of the message you sent if being a furry is disrupting your life to THAT degree where it becomes an all-encompassing lifestyle that governs any and all aspects of your life you probably have some form of dissociative disorder.

There is a stark difference between being LGBTQ and a furry. Last I checked it's perfectly legal to be a furry in all 195 countries (minus North Korea because its North Korea). People are not shot, killed, tortured, or violently beaten for being furries. Furries were not sent to camps in the 40s for existing, nor were they medically experimented on. Furries are not almost universally demonized by churches and their congregations because "the (insert book here) says they are bad". Furries did not need to fight for their right to exist. Furries are literally just a niche group on the internet that likes anthro characters and dresses up as them sometimes. And this is coming from someone who participates within that Niche community. 

The people who feel the need to come out as a furry are just insufferable attention seekers who want to equate being made fun of on the internet for liking a thing to systematic oppression. Bullying is never ok, lets make that clear now, but there is a VERY major difference between what is going on with the furry community and what is going on with marginalized groups. Plus, more often than not, I noticed that the people who often bully 'normal' furries for being furries are either: 12-year-old boys who lack discipline and bedtimes, or grown-ass adults who are willing to verbally attack anyone who is not them because their masculinity/pride is so fragile that's the ONLY way they gain self-worth. And for the 'non-normal' furries (IE people like carpet samples and those who show up to conventions in full bondage gear and diapers) if somebody calls you out for being unsanitary, creepy, or not respecting the boundaries of people around you that's not oppression. Being called out for crappy behavior is not equatable to discrimination and I think that's something fandoms, in general, need to learn and internalize.


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## Raever (Jan 28, 2022)

OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> I feel like you purposely fucked up the acronym because you think you are being smart by doing so.
> 
> But to respond to the entirety of the message you sent if being a furry is disrupting your life to THAT degree where it becomes an all-encompassing lifestyle that governs any and all aspects of your life you probably have some form of dissociative disorder.
> 
> ...



All of this x1000%
I have nothing to add- this is just basically the perfect response thus far (imho).



Baron Tredegar said:


> I personally against the whole "coming out as a furry" thing. However, in some areas people knowing you are a furry and like that stuff could get you disowned.



Generally speaking, kids can get disowned for a lot of things - like watching Spongebob, - if the parents are ignorant/crazy enough to do it. At the end of the day, most parents of Furries tend to just not understand it / not question it at worst or try to understand and support while being put off by it at best. The statistical average of ACTUALLY disowned Furries due to being Furry over something else is near impossible to track because of how rare the cases are. More often than not a lot of disowned "furries" are actually disowned kids who happen to call themselves Furry who might have done something far worse than being an art lover (*ie, illegal stuff). I don't think I need to go into detail over why that in particular would be a reason to disown someone. This isn't even going into the fact that there's some pretty abusive parents out there, and whether or not a kid is a Furry doesn't change the fact that the abuse would exist in other forms if they were/weren't. So to say "_ did _ because Furry" when it's such a niche fandom that most people over 30 don't know about anyway, is a bit sketchy if you ask me. Usually there's a LOT more layers involved.


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## Vic (Jan 28, 2022)

Than only one person in my life matters


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## Raever (Jan 28, 2022)

VictorytheWolf said:


> Than only one person in my life matters



Seems kind of intense. None of my friends "care" if I'm a furry but I still matter a whole lot to them and vice versa.
Just because people aren't interested in your fandom doesn't mean they don't care about you as an individual.


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## Vic (Jan 28, 2022)

Raever said:


> Seems kind of intense. None of my friends "care" if I'm a furry but I still matter a whole lot to them and vice versa.
> Just because people aren't interested in your fandom doesn't mean they don't care about you as an individual.


hmmmm, my parents hate me (not joking) and everyone beats me up because of it


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## Raever (Jan 28, 2022)

VictorytheWolf said:


> hmmmm, my parents hate me (not joking) and everyone beats me up because of it



Everyone physically assaults you regularly because you like anthros?
...like, everyone-everyone? Including your folks? I think this borders less on Furry hate and more on abuse. :/


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## Vic (Jan 28, 2022)

Raever said:


> Everyone physically assaults you regularly because you like anthros?
> ...like, everyone-everyone? Including your folks? I think this borders less on Furry hate and more on abuse. :/


Folks are passive and verbal about it, the people at school beat me...even ripped my shirt that came in the mail today  (It was a free art from a raffle and It was a anime version of Vic so Im really upset)


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## Raever (Jan 28, 2022)

VictorytheWolf said:


> Folks are passive and verbal about it, the people at school beat me...even ripped my shirt that came in the mail today  (It was a free art from a raffle and It was a anime version of Vic so Im really upset)



I'm sorry to hear it, unfortunately we seem to be derailing the thread a little. Best advice I can give is to either stand up for yourself or find a peaceful way to avoid the school bullies who - as mentioned above in a prior post, - are too young to really know anything beyond shoving pixie stix up their noses. As for your parents, verbal abuse is still abuse and as such should not be looked at as the norm. I hope you get to a point in life where you find people who actively care about you in the same way you care about them. Family isn't forever (*don't ever believe that lie) and friends come and go, so there's always new opportunities to grow and change as a person and find new circles to chill out in.
Edit: Also, if your friends do "care" if you're a furry...maybe they aren't your friends.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Jan 28, 2022)

OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> I feel like you purposely fucked up the acronym because you think you are being smart by doing so.


Hmmm..... I'll make a deal with you, if I may..... you don't assume things about my motivations, and I'll do the same for you, deal? (In any case, you're flat out wrong to suggest that) seeing that I simply wrote what I felt applied.

And I'm not going to apologize to you for using one type of acronym over another in the PC-based alphabet soup people love..... and so, if your skivvies are in an uproar about that, then well - that's kind of your problem. 


OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> But to respond to the entirety of the message you sent if being a furry is disrupting your life to THAT degree where it becomes an all-encompassing lifestyle that governs any and all aspects of your life you probably have some form of dissociative disorder.


Well, that's your opinion also.... (as people like me on here will contend): that a lifestyle choice that others may greatly enjoy, which reaches the point in their lives that it encompasses a part of their holistic identity, which in turn makes them want to share that with people that they're close to - isn't necessarily abnormal, or disordered behavior.

It's an identity characteristic and also a lifestyle choice that they want to tell other people about and share because it's important to them..... and so, (as I contend on here) we should just let them do so.

For you to suggest otherwise suggests that there might be something "wrong" with that; and in turn is something that may need to be discouraged..... and frankly - that logic doesn't apply to every situation.

Obviously, if personal safety is a concern - then that comes first and is paramount of course, as I wrote above also.



OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> There is a stark difference between being LGBTQ and a furry. Last I checked it's perfectly legal to be a furry in all 195 countries (minus North Korea because its North Korea). People are not shot, killed, tortured, or violently beaten for being furries. Furries were not sent to camps in the 40s for existing, nor were they medically experimented on. Furries are not almost universally demonized by churches and their congregations because "the (insert book here) says they are bad". Furries did not need to fight for their right to exist.


Well of course there's a big difference, but..... I don't think we need to be preached to for the upteenth thousandth time about how GLBT people were victimized..... when we're talking about a lifestyle fandom choice that people greatly enjoy that often times is not an innate characterisic that people can change, if they wish..... versus one's orientation which cannot.

If you wish to talk about those concerns and that topic in detail though, perhaps you should make a separate thread about it.


OttoVonBismarcksAss said:


> Furries are literally just a niche group on the internet that likes anthro characters and dresses up as them sometimes. And this is coming from someone who participates within that Niche community.
> 
> Being called out for crappy behavior is not equatable to discrimination and I think that's something fandoms, in general, need to learn and internalize.


Well.... that definition doesn't apply to everybody.... as for some, it's much more than that (as I've said throughout this thread)..... and as a community we should not judge them for this and allow them to do so if they want.

That's not "crappy behavior" as you call it...... it's simply being honest and unapologetic for one's life, one's interests, and one's beliefs.


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## x_eleven (Feb 14, 2022)

Foxy Emy said:


> *Sigh*
> 
> I wish the part about people giving you a hard time only exist on the internet is sadly not true.
> 
> ...


I have never experienced anything like that. Last November, I attended a furmeet where we paraded through an upscale shopping district with art galleries and upscale restaurants. We got comments -- all positive Such as: "The Furries are back!" (This city has been very locked-down over the cold bug) College boys (a university town) who knew who we are, and also that a local furcon hasn't taken place for two years, gave us thumbs up as they drove by. Other folks in shops and restaurants waved back. Some even coming out to say they liked our fursuits. Everyone involved had a good time.


> If you think about it's rather crazy that even with the official year of 2022 this fandom is still dealing with same amount of nonsense as it was years and years ago. So yeah we have some odds that will always seem strange to the rest of society but being around for so long its should have become mainstream by now but nope so many folks are still kicking off a fuss about it like furies landed on this planet just yesterday and shocked the world....


I find that this isn't true. Furbashing in the media ended with THAT _CSI_ episode: "Fur and Loathing". Even then, "Fur and Loathing" was going to be a good deal worse had Dark Fox and the So-Cal Furries not convinced the producer to tone it down. Contrast F&L with that Furry episode of _Lucifer_ (both had the same producer) Since then, Furdom has reverted to what it was back in the early -- mid '90s: a source of Sunday supplements about unusual people and their unusual interests.

Internet furbashing died out not too soon after. Loads of furbash web sites are long gone; furbash LJ comms with no new posts in over ten years now.

As for coming out as a Furry... Do you "come out" as a collector of stamps or coins? A builder of model ships? Those who know you already know what you like. I've gotten ESSSSS-loads of animal figurines and such, and that was _before_ I ever heard the word "furry" as anything other than a reference to that which covers the exterior of most mammals. The only thing that changed was now they had a term for it.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Feb 24, 2022)

x_eleven said:


> Furbashing in the media ended with THAT _CSI_ episode: "Fur and Loathing".
> 
> Internet furbashing died out not too soon after. Loads of furbash web sites are long gone; furbash LJ comms with no new posts in over ten years now.


Eh..... in a lot of ways that's true; but.... in regards to "furbashing" (as some label it) it does still happen in some circles, every so often I find...... and this is usually seen in some geographical or political areas - that are (shall we say): more "button down" socially. And so (personally) I wouldn't say it's all gone...... but it's certainly not as bad as it used to be.

But regardless of what the media may do..... one always needs to be mindful of one's personal surroundings, and so - whilst it sounds like you all had a great time doing what you did publicly (that you described in your posting)...... that may not always be the case for some people all the time, and so...... knowing the local environment and in turn, toning it down in the real world (if needed) may be a wise thing as well.


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