# Should young artists of the age of consent be allowed to draw NSFW and post without consequence?



## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

So this is a discussion that a Discord server and I have been having a discussion on for a while, and it honestly made me curious to see what you guys think.  Before going further into this topic, I'd like to quickly make a disclaimer.

*All opinions are open, but please do not attack others for their ideology. Be reasonable with your response as well, and be sure that you aren't overly sexual in your reply or make any overly controversial statements that could risk your post being quarantined and possibly you being muted by a forum deity. I don't want anyone to get in trouble here, and I definitely don't want to overstep any rules or lead others down that path.*

And now, we begin.

we were bringing up age of consent (in sexual favor) and possible correlation with it and art when it comes to things like artistic nudity or mature-themed artwork, and a few people have argued one of two points;


_"Yes, minors should be allowed to draw NSFW publicly because if they're legal enough to have sex, they should be able to have the responsibility to post online images featuring mature themes UNLESS it's of their own body or they're attempting to sell the pieces to an adult, then they shouldn't be allowed to post it or distribute it."_
_"No, minors should not be allowed to draw NSFW publicly because they're still legally minors until they reach the age of 17-18. The law is the law, and it states that minors could be criminally charged for illegally distributing pornographic material among peers older or younger than them. Artistic freedom and age of consent shouldn't excuse minors from this law."_


For me, personally, I find it to be in a grey area. I don't really see that much of a problem of minors at the age of consent uploading NSFW artwork as long as they don't flaunt it constantly or try to sell it to someone if they're not legally an adult. Mature artwork being drawn shouldn't be shamed, since minors are still likely to view pornographic/mature material anyway, whether you like it or not. Plus, if they're of the age of consent, they should be responsible enough with mature things at that point since they're most likely already in practice of engaging in sexual activity, and that includes them knowing what community they'd most likely be catering to.
Minors shouldn't be viewed as sexual deviants for drawing and showing these sorts of things to the public unless if it's with malicious intent or they're completely irresponsible with the content they create.

Now, in defense of the law, it would make sense to not allow minors to upload NSFW and distribute the content because of their safety and for the other party's reputation financially, and I definitely don't see that law to be that much of a problem since it isn't limiting creativity so much, but I would preferably make it where minors should be allowed to express mature themes in their publicly hosted NSFW content as long as it doesn't overstep boundaries; (unsolicited art of others without written consent, completely touching on deeply taboo topics [p*dophilia, b*stiality, n*crophilia, etc.], sending messages that should not be sent, using their content as a way to manipulate someone, etc.) And as long as they don't attempt to take commissions or sell their pieces, there really shouldn't be a problem.
There's been countless times where I've seen minors draw NSFW content that conveyed a meaning or a story, and it made me think about why people may or may not see it as a taboo thing.

tldr; people are arguing about minors drawing peepees publicly.
there's a huge grey area.
i personally don't see a problem with it as long as it's reasonably drawn and the artist is responsible with what they create and don't try to get money off of it 'till they're legal.

So tell me, what do you guys think about this controversial topic? Do you think minors at the age of consent should be allowed to do this or not? Tell me all about it!

[Side note to forum deities: If this topic is too controversial to be spoken about, feel free to move it to a better subcategory or privately message me and I'll remove the topic myself at a point in time.]


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

If the artists are under 18, they should not be allowed to post NSFW art to the internet. 

Those rules are there to prevent young people who are not fully emotionally mature yet from being exploited by older, cunning adults. 
Love between two 16 year olds in real life is fine, and I wouldn't get in the way of it. A 35 year old petitioning a 16 year old to draw pornography is definitely not on though.


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> If the artists are under 18, they should not be allowed to post NSFW art to the internet.
> 
> Those rules are there to prevent young people who are not fully emotionally mature yet from being exploited by older, cunning adults.
> Love between two 16 year olds in real life is fine, and I wouldn't get in the way of it. A 35 year old petitioning a 16 year old to draw pornography is definitely not on though.


Right, right. I definitely get what you mean.
However, hypothetically, what if a minor was smart enough to recognize potential exploits? Should it apply then?


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Skittlesthehusky said:


> Right, right. I definitely get what you mean.
> However, hypothetically, what if a minor was smart enough to recognize potential exploits? Should it apply then?



No. We're meant to be the responsible adults who can be trusted to prevent harm coming to children if we can see that there's a chance of it happening. 
We can't allow them to participate in adult sexual spaces.


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> No. We're meant to be the responsible adults who can be trusted to prevent harm coming to children if we can see that there's a chance of it happening.
> We can't allow them to participate in adult sexual spaces.


Fair point!


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (May 6, 2019)

Skittlesthehusky said:


> (Note, please transfer this topic over to the "General Discussion" subcategory. The categories upon creating this post were overlooked and I put it in 'Community Discussion' instead, in which I apologize.)
> 
> So this is a discussion that a Discord server and I have been having a discussion on for a while, and it honestly made me curious to see what you guys think.  Before going further into this topic, I'd like to quickly make a disclaimer.
> 
> ...



If they're of the 'Age of Consent'?
They're no longer Minors.

End of worry


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> If they're of the 'Age of Consent'?
> They're no longer Minors.
> 
> End of worry



But isn't anybody under the legal age of 18 considered a minor? At least by today's standards?


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Skittlesthehusky said:


> But isn't anybody under the legal age of 18 considered a minor? At least by today's standards?



Yes. 

The age of consent is younger than the age of majority in many countries.


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## NotSafeForCat (May 6, 2019)

Minors are not allowed to access porn, no matter the age of consent.
They're also not allowed to share porn or nude content with adults.

Then, of course they can draw anything they want, as we can't police this.
But, no, they are not allowed to post it online. And anyone encouraging them might encounter some trouble.


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## Fruitythebeetle (May 6, 2019)

minors should never ever draw or write porn of any kind. it's just weird. but a lot of minors still do it regardless. this fact honestly screws with me head nowadays...


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (May 6, 2019)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> minors should never ever draw or write porn of any kind. it's just weird. but a lot of minors still do it regardless. this fact honestly screws with me head nowadays...



Curiosity into the dingles and dongles is not perverse, and every child alive has at some point played the game of 'Doctor' (with various different provisions, no doubt).

One thing I've never understood (and I grew-up here), is the Western World's utter prejudice about sex/uality.

NOT advocating child porn, so don't even start.


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

NotSafeForCat said:


> Minors are not allowed to access porn, no matter the age of consent.
> They're also not allowed to share porn or nude content with adults.
> 
> Then, of course they can draw anything they want, as we can't police this.
> But, no, they are not allowed to post it online. And anyone encouraging them might encounter some trouble.





Fruitythebeetle said:


> minors should never ever draw or write porn of any kind. it's just weird. but a lot of minors still do it regardless. this fact honestly screws with me head nowadays...


I understand you two. Honestly, I can get why it can be weird.
But one thing I don't understand is why people consider them creating their own form of pornography/artistic for personal use as entirely bad or strange to people?
If it's for them and them only, there shouldn't be that much of a problem, right?


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> Curiosity into the dingles and dongles is not perverse, and every child alive has at some point played the game of 'Doctor' (with various different provisions, no doubt).
> 
> One thing I've never understood (and I grew-up here), is the Western World's utter prejudice about sex/uality.
> 
> NOT advocating child porn, so don't even start.


Double-post, but ^
This kind of supports what I'm trying to convey here.


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## zenmaldita (May 6, 2019)

You can't stop kids making NSFW (heck I did it) but you *can and should* stop them from posting it online or making their services available to adults as NSFW commissions.
It is illegal, immoral, and wrong.



Skittlesthehusky said:


> what if a minor was smart enough to recognize potential exploits? Should it apply then?


a minor will never be smart enough than an adult who's been through the dirty world far longer than they have
the real world is shitty than highschool


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## NotSafeForCat (May 6, 2019)

I don't mind kids drawing porn, we all had "inadequate" games, I just don't want them to share it with adults.


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## Fruitythebeetle (May 6, 2019)

I'm gonna be frank...i was exposed to sexual things as a child via though anime and other things. it kinda colored my perception on human sexuality and made me realize things i haven't known before (like me possibly being bisexual). does that mean i wanna have the same happen to others below my age? not really. there's gonna be a moment in a kid's life where they're first exposed to sexual content and it's the responsibility of the adults that raise them to explain to them what they mean. there's people out there who have a hard time telling the different between reality and fiction, and porn can clearly damage a persons idea of sexuality.


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

zenmaldita said:


> You can't stop kids making NSFW (heck I did it) but you *can and should* stop them from posting it online or making their services available to adults as NSFW commissions.
> It is illegal, immoral, and wrong.
> 
> //a minor will never be smart enough than an adult who's been through the dirty world far longer than they have
> the real world is shitty than highschool//


Reasonable enough. And I'd figure so, which is why I specified that it was hypothetical!




Fruitythebeetle said:


> I'm gonna be frank...i was exposed to sexual things as a child via though anime and other things. it kinda colored my perception on human sexuality and made me realize things i haven't known before (like me possibly being bisexual). does that mean i wanna have the same happen to others below my age? not really. there's gonna be a moment in a kid's life where they're first exposed to sexual content and it's the responsibility of the adults that raise them to explain to them what they mean. there's people out there who have a hard time telling the different between reality and fiction, and porn can clearly damage a persons idea of sexuality.


Right, right. Sometimes porn can ruin expectation and perception of sex/uality if a minor hasn't been exposed to those things before.
But here's the thing. I've came to realize that some families raise their kids and give them 'the talk' at a very young age, which makes it seem like the kid understands the world of sexuality much more quickly around the time the age of consent is placed on their status.

This isn't meant to boggle your statement, by the way. It's just a secondhand thought I had upon reading this. :'0


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## Freia the arctic fox (May 6, 2019)

I think you should be allowed to draw and post what ever you want no matter what age you are, as long as they do not post IRL nudes of themselves I don't care. I don't think you should take that freedom away from anyone, It's so much better than to post IRL stuff. Most people do not get hurt by art. It does indeed look silly when a 12 year old draw sexual stuff with crayons but it does not harm anyone, they should of course be told to maybe not show their classmates or teacher. They must know that those kind of things are more safe to post on websites where no one knows who they are. Personally I post lots of nude art at my Instagram but I'm 21 years old and don't really care what people think of it, most people seem to like it tho.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

Yeah, my ex draws porn and he's 16. he also posts it on adult oriented furry discord servers :/


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Freia the arctic fox said:


> I think you should be allowed to draw and post what ever you want no matter what age you are, as long as they do not post IRL nudes of themselves I don't care. I don't think you should take that freedom away from anyone, It's so much better than to post IRL stuff. Most people do not get hurt by art. It does indeed look silly when a 12 year old draw sexual stuff with crayons but it does not harm anyone, they should of course be told to maybe not show their classmates or teacher. They must know that those kind of things are more safe to post on websites where no one knows who they are. Personally I post lots of nude art at my Instagram but I'm 21 years old and don't really care what people think of it, most people seem to like it tho.



Minors shouldn't be able to view or upload pornography because their participation in adult sexual spaces will result in some adults making sexual requests of them.
Children don't have the ability to consent to those requests.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

He also has a FA..


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## Astus (May 6, 2019)

It's kind of funny, because when I traveled to Peru we stayed in a little community center on an island in the middle of Titicaca. On the wall there were crude drawings made by five year olds of men and women with accurate body parts. In other places in the world, when people become biologically able to have sex, their parents or grandparents teach them about sex and how to behave appropriately and when they should have it. In those places there seems to be less issues associated with sexual crimes, etc... Granted I read through these things when I took a sex and gender across cultures class... So accuracy of data unknown

I do know however in the United States that people are really afraid to talk about sex or really describe what it is or why/when you should have sex with someone (mainly because of our country's roots and such). What is a kid who's just gone through puberty, is having odd feelings, and doesn't have much of a place to turn to do? They go to the internet nowadays and see all that there is on there. And I'm sure you all know what you can find on the internet. On top of all that, our sex education classes are pretty much a joke. They just pass messages along like "wear xyz" and "do xyz" but no one listens or cares. 

So why the hell did I just say all of that? It's because it makes sense why teenagers of that age group would want to try to get into NSFW chats or draw lewd things. The issue for them is precisely what everyone else has been describing; that the current laws exist to protect them from making bad decisions and potentially being targeted by disgusting people. If you're underage and make NSFW stuff keep it to yourself. And if you have questions, ask trustworthy people IRL, or when you eventually have kids be more open with them about sex when they're of the age. Sex isn't a bad thing, but it can become a bad thing if not discussed at the right time by the right people.


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Cendrag Roseheart said:


> He also has a FA..



Have you reported these accounts being used to access adult content? 
If not, you probably need to.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

You can if you want, his FA account is Reptilligator


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

Same with his deviantart


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## Liseran Thistle (May 6, 2019)

As a minor who draws NSFW in my free time, I don't see a problem with it. I honestly think that minors should be allowed to draw nsfw art and even post it online, so long as that art doesn't involve other minors or themselves. 

I don't think minors should be allowed to sell NSFW artwork however. Drawing it and posting it for other people is one thing, but profiting off of it is a whole other thing. I also don't think Minors should be allowed to take NSFW requests.

Basically I think Minors should be allowed to draw and post NSFW of their own volition and adults shouldn't try to request or pay them for something that is NSFW, because that can quickly lead into other things that are far darker than just weird fetish pieces. I'm completely fine with drawing weird shit of my own free will and because I want to, but the minute someone comes to me asking me to draw something strictly NSFW for them that immediately sends red flags to me.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

Oh, it's still unnerving, you should not be doing that stuff even at your age.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 6, 2019)

Rusty_Raccoon said:


> I'm confused, should minors of the age of consent be able to draw nsfw art? If they're the age of consent, what's the issue?



well the issue arises on whether or not they should be allowed to sell that artwork or take requests for it i think.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

It's about posting it too, people see that stuff and if they found out a kid did it.. its fucking nasty in my opinion.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

Still disgusting when a kid does it, they don't know better


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Rusty_Raccoon said:


> Isn't the age of consent also the legal age of becoming an adult, at least in California where I am it is? 18? Unless they mean some states where the age of consent is 16.



In much of the world you can have sex before you're 18, yes.



Liseran Thistle said:


> As a minor who draws NSFW in my free time, I don't see a problem with it. I honestly think that minors should be allowed to draw nsfw art and even post it online, so long as that art doesn't involve other minors or themselves.
> 
> I don't think minors should be allowed to sell NSFW artwork however. Drawing it and posting it for other people is one thing, but profiting off of it is a whole other thing. I also don't think Minors should be allowed to take NSFW requests.
> 
> Basically I think Minors should be allowed to draw and post NSFW of their own volition and adults shouldn't try to request or pay them for something that is NSFW, because that can quickly lead into other things that are far darker than just weird fetish pieces. I'm completely fine with drawing weird shit of my own free will and because I want to, but the minute someone comes to me asking me to draw something strictly NSFW for them that immediately sends red flags to me.



Please don't post or view pornographic content if you're under 18. 
Perhaps you individually will say 'well I'm mature, and would refuse unwanted advances from creepy adults,'. 
But a lot of minors aren't there yet, so there has to be a set of rules that's simple to enforce that can serve to protect them.


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## Cendrag Roseheart (May 6, 2019)

Did you report him?


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Cendrag Roseheart said:


> Did you report him?



I need proof of their age to do this; their page does not list their age. If you have a private note that you have exchanged on the site with this user, you can use that to report them.


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Rusty_Raccoon said:


> I mean I don't think a minor shouldn't view any nsfw content before 18 because puberty starting and all that it's just kind of normal. I'm not saying someone who hasn't experienced puberty or some shit like that, and I'm definitely not saying they should engage with other people or adults with sexual stuff, or anything like that, but isn't just finding out about sexual stuff and all that around when puberty starts coming in pretty normal for most people?



I mean, as a teenager I did google for pictures of handsome furry guys. I'm not extremely worried about teenagers flicking through things like a scandalous set of calendar photos. 

On the internet though there are older more sexually experienced people, some of them predatory, who are just waiting for a chance to interact with teenagers who are discovering their sexuality. So that's why it's important to prevent minors from accessing the NSFW sections of websites like furaffinity, or creating f-lists and so on.


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## Illuminaughty (May 6, 2019)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> minors should never ever draw or write porn of any kind. it's just weird. but a lot of minors still do it regardless. this fact honestly screws with me head nowadays...



I mean, I'm asexual but even I think that's a little too strict, imo. While I absolutely, 100% agree that kids should not be participating in adult sexual activities or be given access to these spaces, I don't think there's anything _weird_ about minors exploring their own sexuality in the safety and privacy of their own home.

Regardless of the law, human beings usually begin experiencing sexual feelings and/or impulses when their body begins to start making the leap from sexually immature to sexually mature. This can be from anywhere around 8-13 years old, give or take- long before they're considered legal adults. Even kids of a younger age can experience this, and when human beings are at such an impressionable time in their life, I *do not* think it's healthy to stifle, shame or discourage them when they begin this process.

However, as responsible adults, it is our job to be willing to talk about these things when kids begin to have questions. We need to do our best to educate them on how to express and explore these feelings safely and appropriately. But if you make a child feel ashamed, embarrassed or unsafe about asking you the things they're _going to need to know_, you shouldn't be surprised if they _don't_. And if they _don't_, the chance that they could get tangled in unsafe situations is much higher. Basically it comes down to who you would rather educate a young person about sex and sexuality- the parents who want what's best for their child, or the internet?

The kids are going to seek out sexual content, by and large, whether we like it or not. Whether it comes in the form of finding porn on the internet, a sexual book or magazine, a game, or anything else, once someone begins sexually maturing and having those feelings, they're gonna want to know more- there's nothing unnatural about that.

Either you can be comfortable with that as a fact of reality and be willing to face it when it happens, or you can try to repress, refuse to educate, leave them entirely to their own devices and pretend that they don't have those feelings. But there's no way to stop them if they really want to make or find this content. Unless they're straight up asexual or have been so indoctrinated by shame culture that they can't enjoy their own body (which, again, seems extremely unhealthy to me), they're going to do it.

Now, that just applies for the kids. As adults, we should know better. We should always be cautious about how we enact, keep and distribute sexual content. We are the ones who need to take responsibility in this dynamic between maturing and mature.



zenmaldita said:


> You can't stop kids making NSFW (heck I did it) but you *can and should* stop them from posting it online or making their services available to adults as NSFW commissions.
> It is illegal, immoral, and wrong.
> 
> a minor will never be smart enough than an adult who's been through the dirty world far longer than they have
> the real world is shitty than highschool



^ This.

The onus is on us, not the kids, to  be aware and diligent about the safety of sexual practices.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 6, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> I mean, as a teenager I did google for pictures of handsome furry guys. I'm not extremely worried about teenagers flicking through things like a scandalous set of calendar photos.
> 
> On the internet though there are older more sexually experienced people, some of them predatory, who are just waiting for a chance to interact with teenagers who are discovering their sexuality. So that's why it's important to prevent minors from accessing the NSFW sections of websites like furaffinity, or creating f-lists and so on.



Okay well i get what you're trying to say, but clearly you and I did not grow up the same way at all. Teenagers are gonna look at porn whether you want them to or not, I think issues only arise when said teenager makes porn themselves cause then its a whole other problem. 

Idk I've been thinking about what I would want to say here but the truth is I'm just a teenager and I'm still gonna look at NSFW art whether adults think I should or not. And thats not me saying "oh but im mature" I am very well aware of the dangers of the internet, I'm not an idiot. I think its perfectly fine if teenagers wanna watch porn and draw NSFW art, but only if they are educated on the dangers of the internet and all the problems that can come from it. 

I don't think teens should be allowed to request or sell NSFW works though, thats just really shady and gross to me. Like its fine if a kid wants to draw naked people in their own free time, and its fine if they wanna share it on the internet, but they shouldn't be allowed to sell said material or give it away to others.


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## Fallowfox (May 6, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> Okay well i get what you're trying to say, but clearly you and I did not grow up the same way at all. Teenagers are gonna look at porn whether you want them to or not, I think issues only arise when said teenager makes porn themselves cause then its a whole other problem.
> 
> Idk I've been thinking about what I would want to say here but the truth is I'm just a teenager and I'm still gonna look at NSFW art whether adults think I should or not. And thats not me saying "oh but im mature" I am very well aware of the dangers of the internet, I'm not an idiot. I think its perfectly fine if teenagers wanna watch porn and draw NSFW art, but only if they are educated on the dangers of the internet and all the problems that can come from it.
> 
> I don't think teens should be allowed to request or sell NSFW works though, thats just really shady and gross to me. Like its fine if a kid wants to draw naked people in their own free time, and its fine if they wanna share it on the internet, but they shouldn't be allowed to sell said material or give it away to others.



I know teenagers are going to look at the lewds; I used to be a teenager after all! 
Not that long ago either. ;^; I'm not *that* old. No grim reaper, back away! 

Teenagers are going to sneakily look at porn- I accept this. Please don't post pornography that you have drawn on the internet though, and please avoid entering social spaces where you can exchange messages with adults in a sexual environment, such as dating websites. 
If it helps you, you already think minors giving pornography they drew away online is bad- well, uploading that content online is giving it away to anybody and everybody.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 6, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> I know teenagers are going to look at the lewds; I used to be a teenager after all!
> Not that long ago either. ;^; I'm not *that* old. No grim reaper, back away!
> 
> Teenagers are going to sneakily look at porn- I accept this. Please don't post pornography that you have drawn on the internet though, and please avoid entering social spaces where you can exchange messages with adults in a sexual environment, such as dating websites.
> If it helps you, you already think minors giving pornography they drew away online is bad- well, uploading that content online is giving it away to anybody and everybody.



I am not responsible for the actions of other people. If adults want to buy or request NSFW artwork from kids, then that's entirely on the adults. Teenagers shouln't have to safe gaurd there own artwork because some adults can't show a little decency online. If I wanna show people naked pictures of my deer fursona, I'm well within my right to do so. I am, however, not allowed to sell said picture of my naked fursona or do requests for people of any kind that involve NSFW. I'm not against the idea of teenagers expressing their sexuality through dirty pictures, and I don't see any problem with posting said pictures as long as they don't showcase any other minors or themselves. 

I don't think its fair for us to have to censor and safegaurd all of our NSFW art on the internet because dirty old pedos are on the Internet. Hell, if i based everything I posted on whether or not some dirty old pedo could get his rocks off of it, I would have never logged onto the internet at all. The only reason I did was because I realised that there was a safe and effecient way of handling such creeps. If you wanna make the internet a safe place you should focus on the people who are making it an unsafe place rather than the targets. There is a safe way for teenagers to post NSFW artwork they have without any risk, and we should focus on getting rid of the actual problem.


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## Simo (May 6, 2019)

OT, only slightly, but an amazing song, germane in aspect:

New Order: Age of Consent


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 6, 2019)

Simo said:


> OT, only slightly, but an amazing song, germane in aspect:
> 
> New Order: Age of Consent


I SHOULDN'T HAVE CACKLED.


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## Filter (May 7, 2019)

I drew adult artwork when I was a minor, but I kept it private. People shouldn't share NSFW material unless they're legally adults. For one thing, the NSFW parts of the web are an adult space. There's an expectation that adults are interacting with fellow adults. Keep the it to yourself for a few years, until you're more grown up.


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## Simo (May 7, 2019)

also

growing up


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## Jaekada (May 7, 2019)

Minors shouldn't be stiffed from getting feedback as their art develops. They should have some critique from others about improvements as they scope into NSFW territories. What if they're working on anatomies? They may need input on that. It'd be ridiculous to police what they can and can't draw. That'd be like, controlling what they can and cannot say. They're going to swear at somepoint in their early lives but people throw themselves like they're catching a bullet, to make sure they don't. You cannot be certain that a minor hasn't had a peak at porn during those years either.

Let them draw what they want. I've done business with minors before with commissions and I'm 29. I am merely amazed at the talent I see improving with some of those artists and I encourage them to continue and improve even if it's NSFW. It's not like I'm being stupid and blunt by asking them to draw NSFW of our characters or make them uncomfortable with advances they didn't ask for.

It's art. Let it be.


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## quoting_mungo (May 7, 2019)

I think there's two different conversations to be had here: 
Should teens draw/post/sell NSFW content while there's laws that can get them, their hosts, and any adult viewing their work in trouble? 
_Should_ the law be restricting minors' ability to create/share/sell this content?

As a side note, in the US, at least (or so I've been told), a minor cannot enter into a legally binding contract, so there's some barriers to minors selling or buying custom art without even factoring in the NSFW aspect.

And, like... I'm feeling a bit hypocritical having this discussion, since I probably was like 16 when I started dabbling with drawing smut and sharing it with the group of people I hung out with online at the time. Importantly (to me), though, was that I didn't have the faintest that I could have gotten my older friends into trouble by doing so, or that I was posing a legal liability to my web host. _That_ is something I think us adults have to be more proactive about: educating teens about the possible ramifications of them fiddling with their listed age to post and view porn. Ideally, that education should be coming from parents and schools, but if it isn't, we have to step up. (I'm probably-naively assuming that most kids don't want adults they communicate with thrown in jail or websites they use shut down, but that's the faith I choose to have in humanity.)

But, basically... as long as it's illegal, minors shouldn't be sharing NSFW artwork through channels where it could create a liability for someone else (number of fucks given if you giggle over your self-drawn smut in your bedroom with your similarly-aged friends: none), or buying/selling it in any form. Because putting other people at risk for your own satisfaction is rude.

As to whether the law is correct in this... *shrug* I understand and mostly agree with the points @Fallowfox makes, though at the same time I feel like... I don't know. The whole "you're seventeen today, you're an adult tomorrow" thing never sat entirely well with me. Things like that are awfully arbitrary, and if there was a convenient/plausible way to identify who was on the other end of the connection I'd be all for online Romeo & Juliet laws, for lack of a better word.



Jaekada said:


> They should have some critique from others about improvements as they scope into NSFW territories. What if they're working on anatomies? They may need input on that.


You can work on anatomy without drawing smut. Like... just omit genitals and nipples (think Barbie dolls), and you can draw all the nudes you want without crossing over into porn land. Not that hard. Hold off on drawing the NSFW until you have your anatomy figured out properly, and hold off on posting it until you're of age.


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## Freia the arctic fox (May 7, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> Minors shouldn't be able to view or upload pornography because their participation in adult sexual spaces will result in some adults making sexual requests of them.
> Children don't have the ability to consent to those requests.


It's really hard to control what kids do on the internet, Its hard to control what anyone does really. It's not illegal for people under the age of 18 to watch pornography neither is it illegal for them to upload pornography of themselves it is however illegal to watch their material. It's hard enough to find pedophiles on the internet and I believe it is much harder to find kids who upload this kinds of things. I think its wrong that some kids/teenagers do so but that is why I would rather want them to post art that is maybe pornographic. I believe every kid should be thought that there are predators on the internet and that they must be very careful. It's also important that we as a part of a community take action if we so someone acting odd around young people. I don't believe punishing young people is a good idea, I'm quite liberal when it comes to most things. I believe in education and i believe in individual responsibility.


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## quoting_mungo (May 7, 2019)

Freia the arctic fox said:


> It's really hard to control what kids do on the internet, Its hard to control what anyone does really. It's not illegal for people under the age of 18 to watch pornography neither is it illegal for them to upload pornography of themselves it is however illegal to watch their material.


I think what @Fallowfox means is that minors should not be allowed into adult spaces with open arms - if the minor lies to get access, that's very different from if FA decided to open up their NSFW filter to all users regardless of age.

And minors _have_ been charged with production and spreading of child pornography when sexting, so it's reasonable to extrapolate that it _is_ illegal for them to upload at least photographic porn of themselves at least in some states. It's also illegal in many places to distribute sexually explicit material to a minor, so while it's not strictly illegal for a minor to view porn, they are subjecting the host to a risk when they do so.


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## Freia the arctic fox (May 7, 2019)

Jaekada said:


> Minors shouldn't be stiffed from getting feedback as their art develops. They should have some critique from others about improvements as they scope into NSFW territories. What if they're working on anatomies? They may need input on that. It'd be ridiculous to police what they can and can't draw. That'd be like, controlling what they can and cannot say. They're going to swear at somepoint in their early lives but people throw themselves like they're catching a bullet, to make sure they don't. You cannot be certain that a minor hasn't had a peak at porn during those years either.
> 
> Let them draw what they want. I've done business with minors before with commissions and I'm 29. I am merely amazed at the talent I see improving with some of those artists and I encourage them to continue and improve even if it's NSFW. It's not like I'm being stupid and blunt by asking them to draw NSFW of our characters or make them uncomfortable with advances they didn't ask for.
> 
> It's art. Let it be.


I could not agree more. Young people who draw nudity might even learn from it and it might even make them more comfortable towards their own sexuality. It's a way for them to discover more about themselves. I know many young people who have a bad self image end up posting very sexual photography of themselves, it's a bad way of becoming confident about your self and your sexuality and it can give you wounds that last for many many years it might even be something that haunts you for the rest of your life. Art can't harm them, it's a much better way for them to discover their sexuality and it's a nice hobby as well.


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## Freia the arctic fox (May 7, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> I think what @Fallowfox means is that minors should not be allowed into adult spaces with open arms - if the minor lies to get access, that's very different from if FA decided to open up their NSFW filter to all users regardless of age.
> 
> And minors _have_ been charged with production and spreading of child pornography when sexting, so it's reasonable to extrapolate that it _is_ illegal for them to upload at least photographic porn of themselves at least in some states. It's also illegal in many places to distribute sexually explicit material to a minor, so while it's not strictly illegal for a minor to view porn, they are subjecting the host to a risk when they do so.


It's just that it is very hard to control what people do on the internet. Kids lie about their age all the time to get into adult communities. It's usually out of curiosity and a desire to become confident about their own sexuality, they do very often become an easy prey for this reason. Since it's so difficult to just ban kids from communities I believe people should be better to take some responsibility and try to educate the kids and try to take action when something is not right. 

Here it is legal for kids to view pornography, of course its not legal for adults to show kids pornographic material. I'm getting all heated up here, I love a good debate.


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## Skittlesthehusky (May 7, 2019)

I just want to quickly say that I appreciate how maturely everyone is handling this topic, and thank you all for providing your input! 

It's definitely nice to see people's views on this sort of thing.


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## Fallowfox (May 7, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> I am not responsible for the actions of other people. If adults want to buy or request NSFW artwork from kids, then that's entirely on the adults. Teenagers shouln't have to safe gaurd there own artwork because some adults can't show a little decency online. If I wanna show people naked pictures of my deer fursona, I'm well within my right to do so. I am, however, not allowed to sell said picture of my naked fursona or do requests for people of any kind that involve NSFW. I'm not against the idea of teenagers expressing their sexuality through dirty pictures, and I don't see any problem with posting said pictures as long as they don't showcase any other minors or themselves.
> 
> I don't think its fair for us to have to censor and safegaurd all of our NSFW art on the internet because dirty old pedos are on the Internet. Hell, if i based everything I posted on whether or not some dirty old pedo could get his rocks off of it, I would have never logged onto the internet at all. The only reason I did was because I realised that there was a safe and effecient way of handling such creeps. If you wanna make the internet a safe place you should focus on the people who are making it an unsafe place rather than the targets. There is a safe way for teenagers to post NSFW artwork they have without any risk, and we should focus on getting rid of the actual problem.



If 16 year olds share sexual drawings on the internet, some of them (most of them?) will be accosted by predatory adults. 
That will happen whether or not the images are requests or commissions. 

I hope you appreciate that I don't want to be a boorish adult trying to repress your sexuality. Preventing minors from sharing sexual images is a means to achieving better protections. 

I agree that it is the predatory adults who are at fault. I think that predatory adults should go to prison- but realistically we're never going to be able to catch all of them, so this is a pragmatic solution to make it harder for them to target minors.


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## TrishaCat (May 7, 2019)

Allowing such would be encouraging underage people to view pornography, as them drawing it and posting it means they are viewing said porn. Additionally, it would invite users to make sexual comments in response to their artwork, meaning in many cases adults would be sending sexual comments to minors.
No, underage artists should not be allowed to draw and post NSFW artwork without consequence. It invites trouble.


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## quoting_mungo (May 8, 2019)

Freia the arctic fox said:


> It's just that it is very hard to control what people do on the internet. Kids lie about their age all the time to get into adult communities. It's usually out of curiosity and a desire to become confident about their own sexuality, they do very often become an easy prey for this reason. Since it's so difficult to just ban kids from communities I believe people should be better to take some responsibility and try to educate the kids and try to take action when something is not right.
> 
> Here it is legal for kids to view pornography, of course its not legal for adults to show kids pornographic material. I'm getting all heated up here, I love a good debate.


Of course teens are gonna teen; I have no illusions that they'll let age gating stop them. That's exactly why I pointed out the difference between someone lying about their age and just throwing the doors open. It's a matter of protecting all parties.

I do think that there should be space for _some_ discussion about sexuality; not explicit stuff, but, well... talking about things like attraction, how relationships work, how porn (in the "commercially produced movies featuring fucking" sense) in the vast majority of cases is basically to "real" sex what stunt driving is to everyday regular-people driving, and so on. This is better education than furry porn with dicks the size of a bodybuilder' forearm, anyway. There's a difference between getting guidance from people with more life experience, and walking blind into a wall of unrealistic expectations. (I actually knew someone who had a penis size complex that early exposure to furry porn likely was a contributing factor in.)

The problem is that there's no real way for "minors viewing porn" to not also involve "adults providing porn to minors" with the way the Internet works. Allowing minors to turn off the NSFW filter on FA would put the site owners and anyone who produces pornographic material at risk, legally speaking. This is one area I think we have to be better at educating teens in - their curiosity can actually be a legal liability for any adult involved in serving the content they view. I know I certainly didn't know/understand this when I was in my teens, and I don't think that's an uncommon situation.


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## Godzilla (May 8, 2019)

Here's a perspective from someone who was sexually exploited from ages 13 to 14 by a sexual predator but also was a minor less than six months ago haha. 

I don't know if anyone has addressed this and they probably have I'm just not going to read through 3 pages of responses.
I feel like the mentality of a minor changes drastically from when they're younger (let's say 14) to when they are are older (let's say 16). While these are only two years in difference so much changes in a minor's thought process. 

Younger minors (fourteen and younger in my opinion) are much more impressionable to grooming from adults viewing the art. The concept of a "sexually aware" minor is basically bait for predators to groom minors into thinking that they're mature for being sexually aware. Thus, open for exploitation. This obviously being, real frickin bad. A lot of predators know what they are doing is wrong but they find ways to justify their actions in their own heads but not just telling the minor that they're mature enough to engage in sexual activity, but also telling themselves that the minor is mature enough. NSFW art a minor posts is just another thing that predators will use to justify their actions to themselves.
If there's no art, there's no justification. 

On the other hand you have older minors (15-17) who are aware of these threats and although still stupid, are more aware and cautious of grooming and impressionism. Also this is the age I personally feel that teens max out on horny juice (the average age of people losing their virginity is 16 years old) including me, who started drawing NSFW art at age 15, fucked around a whole lot at age 15, and explored my sexuality more at age 15. In a way it was extremely liberating to explore taboo subjects and also explore yourself. If people aren't allowed to explore who they are when they are younger, you're gonna get a fuck ton of identity and sexually confused adults. You often see this in more conservative areas where once people are free from whatever shackles they have (parents religion community society etc.) They don't even know who they really are internally. And living like that is just... Sad really. Being able to create NSFW art lets someone explore what they really like, and also be proud of it. 

So I guess my stance on it is let teens older than 15 be more liberal with posting NSFW art, (no selling though) 
But don't support 14 and younger artists to post their NSFW art. I know they're going to do it anyways but don't provide a safe space for it. 

I'm not going to get into the legalities of this and all the factors that could play into this thought process which could cause it to crumble down, and honestly if I did this post would be much too long but I'm speaking from my own experiences. At age 14 I got myself out of my sexually exploitative situation, and it left me not knowing who I was, what my sexuality was, and if I was worth more than what my body could provide. For a long time I did not tell anyone about what happened to me, and so I was stuck. At age 15 instead of repressing these questions I chose to explore who I was and what I was interested in first through NSFW art, and through explorations of different types of NSFW art and other media I learned about what constitutes a healthy sexual relationships. I learned that what happened to me was not my fault, and that I could recover and talk about what I had experienced. These were things my parents and my closest friends couldn't even tell me, because I was too scared to tell them. 
Inherently, NSFW art and media is sexual, that's it's purpose after all, but it also serves as a good way for teens in any situation to explore their identity, and exposure to NSFW teaches teens about healthy sexual relationships, which is something that is not taught often.


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## Freia the arctic fox (May 8, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> Of course teens are gonna teen; I have no illusions that they'll let age gating stop them. That's exactly why I pointed out the difference between someone lying about their age and just throwing the doors open. It's a matter of protecting all parties.
> 
> I do think that there should be space for _some_ discussion about sexuality; not explicit stuff, but, well... talking about things like attraction, how relationships work, how porn (in the "commercially produced movies featuring fucking" sense) in the vast majority of cases is basically to "real" sex what stunt driving is to everyday regular-people driving, and so on. This is better education than furry porn with dicks the size of a bodybuilder' forearm, anyway. There's a difference between getting guidance from people with more life experience, and walking blind into a wall of unrealistic expectations. (I actually knew someone who had a penis size complex that early exposure to furry porn likely was a contributing factor in.)
> 
> The problem is that there's no real way for "minors viewing porn" to not also involve "adults providing porn to minors" with the way the Internet works. Allowing minors to turn off the NSFW filter on FA would put the site owners and anyone who produces pornographic material at risk, legally speaking. This is one area I think we have to be better at educating teens in - their curiosity can actually be a legal liability for any adult involved in serving the content they view. I know I certainly didn't know/understand this when I was in my teens, and I don't think that's an uncommon situation.


I really do not think that things like Yiff and Hentai affects sexual education as it is cartoon and kids know that cartoons do not give a good image of how things are in real  life. They watch cartoon all the time for entertainment and they don't mistake cartoons for reality and that is a good thing about Yiff and hentai. But 

The last statement you made is a really good point. It's problematic if for example parents find out that their child is watching stuff and that can indeed be dangerous to the community. However, I believe that if someone where to start a lawsuit over something like that I'm pretty sure their conclusion would be that the minor was responsible for what he/she got her/himself into. The site would survive however those members who have maybe shared pornographic material would probably have to be banned and could probably risk to get a criminal record and be suspected for pedophilia. I definitely see that minors sharing sexual content and lying about their age online can lead to real life consequences. My views are very challenged in that matter.


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## riddles (May 8, 2019)

a little input from when i studied sexology: teens can and will participate in sex and will consume sexual material like porn.

though it's hardly studied, drawing it will likely allow some teens to explore their sexuality in a way removed from physical relationships. this is both good and bad (eg. porn can set unrealistic expectations and some areas are rife with abuse, but they're also learning about what gets them going)

drawing the material? no issues. shielding kids from that stuff does no good, which is why states with abstinence-only education have higher rates of teen pregnancy. distribution and selling is where the line should be drawn though, since it opens them to potential exploitation by adults, and is also legally dubious (depending on your country). depending on the country that's action that could potentially get them or others interacting with them slapped on a sex offender list (especially if the material is distributed to other minors), so it's something that needs to be seriously considered as it effects all people involved.


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## Freia the arctic fox (May 8, 2019)

riddles said:


> a little input from when i studied sexology: teens can and will participate in sex and will consume sexual material like porn.
> 
> though it's hardly studied, drawing it will likely allow some teens to explore their sexuality in a way removed from physical relationships. this is both good and bad (eg. porn can set unrealistic expectations and some areas are rife with abuse, but they're also learning about what gets them going)
> 
> drawing the material? no issues. shielding kids from that stuff does no good, which is why states with abstinence-only education have higher rates of teen pregnancy. distribution and selling is where the line should be drawn though, since it opens them to potential exploitation by adults, and is also legally dubious (depending on your country). depending on the country that's action that could potentially get them or others interacting with them slapped on a sex offender list (especially if the material is distributed to other minors), so it's something that needs to be seriously considered as it effects all people involved.


I've had that theory for a long time that kids are not educationally affected by cartoons as they do not represent reality but rather entertainment and fantasies. 

I have experienced that young girls who looked like they where under the age of 16 have share images of them selves in discord groups, on forums on social medias, thees images are often either half naked or naked images of them selves where they some times even touch themselves. I leave groups that contain IRL sexual material and I always try to talk to these young girls to make them think about how these images can fall into wrong hands and how it is not a good way to gain self confidence nor to explore your sexuality. 

I do not have much of a problem with young people drawing sexual art as drawing is an excellent way of learning more about yourself and it's much harder to use for blackmailing and it is also not illegal to watch sexual art made by a minor so they don't get mature people into trouble.


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## Asher Grey (May 8, 2019)

Godzilla said:


> Here's a perspective from someone who was sexually exploited from ages 13 to 14 by a sexual predator but also was a minor less than six months ago haha.
> 
> I don't know if anyone has addressed this and they probably have I'm just not going to read through 3 pages of responses.
> I feel like the mentality of a minor changes drastically from when they're younger (let's say 14) to when they are are older (let's say 16). While these are only two years in difference so much changes in a minor's thought process.
> ...



I was going to bring up grooming but I'm glad you put it eloquently like this.

When I was really young, I was obsessed with how """mature""" I was and posted random porn drawings, thought that because I was comfortable drawing it I could lie about my age and stuff. I'd get notes and comments from adults about it being good and if I did requests and it felt validating because, as a 14 year old with a "fuck anyone who says I'm not mature because I have good grammar and look 18, age is just a number and they don't understand I'm basically an adult" mentality, that's what I wanted.

As I got older and *actually* matured, I realized how illegal, misleading, gross, and ultimately embarrassing it was, I owned up to that and deleted all of it. 16 to 17, I didn't post any, and I still feel sick thinking about it.

If you think back to when you were a little kid and you were so certain you were way more mature and didn't need to listen to adults, you feel embarrassed. Every 10 year old going "you don't understand mom, I'm old enough to []!" is, in most circumstances, cringey as hell.

Posting NSFW content is like that but worse, potentially incriminating and it can actually affect your future. In this time and this community, porn is pretty commonplace, but if your future employer looks you up, it can have real life consequences. Not to mention it's unfair to any adult who consumes NSFW content while trusting that since it's in an 18+ space, it's been created by someone 18+. I don't care how much minors obsessed with the idea that they're ultra-mature don't like to hear this, but when I see a minor use that argument, it makes me feel a little sick.


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## Asher Grey (May 8, 2019)

And in response to the argument that teens need access to NSFW content to learn about sexuality-- I agree with this, but a large majority of porn(especially on FA) is not sexually accurate. It's fun to look at, and unless an artist specifies that they want minors off their page, I don't have an issue with younger folks looking at porn. I really don't.

But seeing a hyper-muscle horse ram it's 2 foot long cock into a submissive shark with two dicks without lube or condoms isn't teaching you sex ed.


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## Cat-!Cross!Sans (May 8, 2019)

I feel like minors should have the right to i wouldn't suggest it or encourage it but if they really want to they should have a right too as long as it is not harmful to others.


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## Cat-!Cross!Sans (May 8, 2019)

Cat-!Cross!Sans said:


> I feel like minors should have the right to i wouldn't suggest it or encourage it but if they really want to they should have a right too as long as it is not harmful to others.


I also feel that they shouldn't post it online though and they should keep it to themselves unless they feel like getting a pinion from a close friend or something similar 
and yes i realize i myself am a minor but i'm not going to be super immature about it I know about the problems i.e. predators and that's why i believe minors shouldn't post it online unless sent to a close friend to get a opinion or other feedback and they should make sure they know that person in real life and a similar age to said minor
I have drawn such content once and did not post it online or share it with anyone.


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## MaetheDragon (May 8, 2019)

In my personal opinion, as long as the minor is of consenting age, I think it's okay to at least draw or create their own porn, as every kid usually goes through a period of exploring their bodies, what defines healthy relationships, and their sexuality. For instance, I tried to at least look up pornographic content a few times as a minor, myself, only to find that most pornographic material really isn't interesting to me. I discovered then that I usually don't experience sexual attraction unless I've already established a relationship with someone, that's just how I am. But, for a minor to accept offers from adults or have their pornographic content monetized in any way, or to purchase said content, is another matter entirely. If minors are to create and consume their own pornographic content, then that's the extent I'd be willing to allow someone underage to consume porn. Any traded material between the minor and an adult, and having it sold or purchased is where I draw the line.

Most everyone else in this thread expressed why buying and selling pornographic content, and sharing pornography anonymously could be harmful, so I don't feel the need to restate it here.


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## Cat-!Cross!Sans (May 8, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> In my personal opinion, as long as the minor is of consenting age, I think it's okay to at least draw or create their own porn, as every kid usually goes through a period of exploring their bodies, what defines healthy relationships, and their sexuality. For instance, I tried to at least look up pornographic content a few times as a minor, myself, only to find that most pornographic material really isn't interesting to me. I discovered then that I usually don't experience sexual attraction unless I've already established a relationship with someone, that's just how I am. But, for a minor to accept offers from adults or have their pornographic content monetized in any way, or to purchase said content, is another matter entirely. If minors are to create and consume their own pornographic content, then that's the extent I'd be willing to allow someone underage to consume porn. Any traded material between the minor and an adult, and having it sold or purchased is where I draw the line.
> 
> Most everyone else in this thread expressed why buying and selling pornographic content, and sharing pornography anonymously could be harmful, so I don't feel the need to restate it here.


yes i have a similar opinion minors should have some ability to explore who they are through it but trading said material with an adult is wrong i believe that in itself is exploiting said minor and should not be allowed me myself i'm more avoiding of said material than most my age and i believe that people shouldn't really do that kinda stuff and for that reason i tend to be more focused on the emotional then sexual side of a relationship


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## Cat-!Cross!Sans (May 8, 2019)

the way i actually discovered i was a furry was be drawing pictures of cats (these were not at all sexual)as i liked animals and i thought the anthropomorphic animals looked cool/cute and became part of the fandom this only somewhat pertains to the conversation as it was not NSFW content but it dose show people can discover things about themselves through art.


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## Troj (May 8, 2019)

When I was a teen, a friend and I collaborated on a gleefully-edgy, extremely-X-rated, absolutely-juvenile comic strip about two horny teenagers and their sex robot. It was South Park meets R. Crumb all the way. Having fun creating stories or art that would make your parents and teachers blush is perfectly natural and healthy in itself. 

My core concern is that a child who draws adult art and then shares it on the Internet may end up attracting adult attention, and that's the problem we have to address here, because those interactions put minors _and_ adults at risk.

There's an additional problem here with the Internet being Forever, and kids typically having poor judgment (through no real fault of their own) about what will make them cringe in five to ten years, or what could compromise their reputation in various domains. This is where parents and adult mentors come in, I reckon.


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## Cat-!Cross!Sans (May 8, 2019)

sounds about right


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## quoting_mungo (May 9, 2019)

riddles said:


> a little input from when i studied sexology: teens can and will participate in sex and will consume sexual material like porn.
> 
> though it's hardly studied, drawing it will likely allow some teens to explore their sexuality in a way removed from physical relationships. this is both good and bad (eg. porn can set unrealistic expectations and some areas are rife with abuse, but they're also learning about what gets them going)
> 
> drawing the material? no issues. shielding kids from that stuff does no good, which is why states with abstinence-only education have higher rates of teen pregnancy. distribution and selling is where the line should be drawn though, since it opens them to potential exploitation by adults, and is also legally dubious (depending on your country). depending on the country that's action that could potentially get them or others interacting with them slapped on a sex offender list (especially if the material is distributed to other minors), so it's something that needs to be seriously considered as it effects all people involved.


I can't recall where it was, now, but a while back I saw an article about a "porn literacy" initiative for teens that was right clever (even if it had some issues, like the adult group leadership having to thread a thin line between having a frank discussion and not being too sex positive because we can't encourage teens to have sex, can we?). I think the link might have been shared on this forum? That kind of thing is a good way of letting teens figure out their own sexuality without being at risk from predatory adults (or putting non-predatory adults at risk). This is also part of why I am generally for non-explicit discussions _about_ sex and sexuality that teens are part of. Depriving them of a chance to learn from others' experience if they can isn't going to help them.

The legalities around teens lying about their age to post and/or consume porn are in many cases problematic in themselves, even if you are 100% against teens posting/consuming porn in principle. Sex offender registries, as you mentioned, is one of these problems - publicly available sex offender registries are hella sketchy in the first place, and doing things in bad judgment with no predatory intent potentially ruining someone's life forever is just... disproportionate and cruel. Another problem is that teens are gonna teen, (ie your point about how teens can and will), and that massively complicates both their online lives and the lives of site owners and adult users they interact with. 

The site owners end up having to play whack-a-mole with teens' accounts because not doing so would be a legal liability. As laws are created increasingly making hosts/services liable for user behavior, this is only going to get worse.
The teens themselves are pushed into a choice between not obtaining the smut they came for (and being teens curious about sex, this is likely not an appealing option) or violating the terms of service of whatever service they use, which I suspect trains them to have a very flippant/blasé attitude about site policies in general. The isolation imposed by not being welcome in adult spaces could conceivably also make it easier for predatory adults to connect. (That's not saying the answer is to open up 18+ spaces to minors, but rather that it's desirable to have well-moderated spaces for teens to at the very least discuss their thoughts about sexuality, so that their curiosity isn't turned into a taboo in itself, and also so that they can be taught _why_ their presence in adult spaces can be a problem for everyone involved.)
Non-predatory adults may end up not knowing that they're dealing with a minor, and could still be unknowingly committing a crime by interacting with them in a way that would be 100% appropriate between adults. I've seen artists be mortified to find out that the NSFW art they were commissioned for was purchased by a minor. 
Peers with birthdays a few months apart may face a situation where the same sharing of porn they did as 17-year-olds is suddenly illegal because one of them turned 18, and quite frankly this is _obviously_ stupid. _All_ laws regulating the interaction between minors and adults need some kind of Romeo and Juliette clause. 

And so on. I can't say the legislation is complete trash, but I _will_ say that I very much doubt anyone is overly interested in fixing any of these problems, especially in e.g. the US, which tends to be pretty sex-negative on its public face, especially where minors are in any way involved.


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## Dragoneer (May 9, 2019)

Weighing in:

Some minors are mature enough to handle drawing adult content. Others aren't. Drawing nudes, figure studies, and life drawing are essential tools to help artists learn anatomy, posing, and more. And yes, some minors no doubt draw mature content, but when it comes to FA, posting is _verboten. _We follow the laws, and the law says 18 and older. No exceptions.

Failure to adhere to the law can be problematic. Why? Laws in the United States can be... uh, let's be nice and call them "backwards". What do I mean by backwards? Example: there are laws against providing pornographic material to minors. If a minor (defined as a person under the age 18 years) uploads content to Fur Affinity, and we're hosting it in their gallery, us transmitting _their own art back to them _could be argued as us providing minors with adult content. Yes, even displaying their _own art_ back to them.  Safe harbor laws protect us so long as we take action when we're made aware of that fact.

When it comes to minors in adult scenarios, either in art or real life, the answer is always no. Wait until you're 18, then do whatever you want. The law magically stops caring on that magical birthday when you legally become an adult.

You don't have to agree with the laws but you do have to follow them.


quoting_mungo said:


> Sex offender registries, as you mentioned, is one of these problems - publicly available sex offender registries are hella sketchy in the first place, and doing things in bad judgment with no predatory intent potentially ruining someone's life forever is just... disproportionate and cruel.


Speaking of backwards laws: if a minor takes a nude photograph of themselves and sends it to their boy/girlfriend (of equal age) they can often be charged with producing pornographic content involving minor.

You read stories about this every so often. Teens sext, get caught, then get labelled as pedophiles while they're still legally minors. That sex offender status follows them through life, and fighting it is near impossible in some states.


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## quoting_mungo (May 9, 2019)

Dragoneer said:


> Speaking of backwards laws: if a minor takes a nude photograph of themselves and sends it to their boy/girlfriend (of equal age) they can often be charged with producing pornographic content involving minor.
> 
> You read stories about this every so often. Teens sext, get caught, then get labelled as pedophiles while they're still legally minors. That sex offender status follows them through life, and fighting it is near impossible in some states.


Yup; I made reference to this earlier in the thread IIRC (I know I mentioned it recently on the forums and can't think of another thread it would be in). Statutory rape between teens in states without Romeo & Juliet laws is another great example of the US trying to legislate away teenagers' sexuality. Which, yanno... not gonna work. Not even close. 

While I won't contest that there are some predatory people out there, the vast majority of would-be-illegal-if-investigated interactions are likely innocent ones (yanno, to the extent that sharing smut or whatever can be innocent) - there's no ulterior motive, just bad judgment.


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## Skychickens (May 10, 2019)

I think it’s fine to do it themselves but not publicly share. The law is the law. Sometimes in different countries it’s different but if the website is based in x country and their laws say you must be 18 to distribute nsfw materials, then that’s what it should be as a rule too. 

The thing is it doesn’t just affect the minor distributing it. It can also cause major repercussions to anyone of legal age promoting it, purchasing it, or even viewing it whether knowingly or unknowingly. All it takes is one angry parent with a lawyer.


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## riddles (May 10, 2019)

MartenFerret said:


> Here's a question...
> 
> Say you made secret NSFW art when you were a teenager, kept the art... and years later decide to upload it.
> Would the art still be 'creepy' or something? :3



nah, because you're now an adult with an adult understanding of your actions.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

Battlechili said:


> Allowing such would be encouraging underage people to view pornography, as them drawing it and posting it means they are viewing said porn. Additionally, it would invite users to make sexual comments in response to their artwork, meaning in many cases adults would be sending sexual comments to minors.
> No, underage artists should not be allowed to draw and post NSFW artwork without consequence. It invites trouble.



This person gets it. Viewing pornography (if you’re below 18) is illegal in the U.S. Kids drawing NSFW art is SUPER illegal because they are creating pornography (a child is creating pornography...it sounds bad because it is). People commenting on their work is also unsettling to say the least.

Kids who lie about their age (or neglect to tell people) and do requests or commissions anyway are doing an illegal act. This could ruin the lives of people who unknowingly requested art from them. The people requesting art from them could also take advantage of them too. The situation is just bad all the way around. Kids drawing NSFW art and posting it online should not be encouraged to do so in any shape or form. Those who say “Well I did it at their age and nothing happened to me” do not know our laws and the consequences of our laws if they get caught. This is coming from a person who drew NSFW art when I was a young by the way. The big difference between the past and present is that I NEVER posted my NSFW art until I was 18 because I wasn’t an idiot, but kids now have access to the internet and post these pictures without knowing the consequences at all.


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## _Ivory_ (May 10, 2019)

Theres nothing wrong with a minor creating and posting NSFW art. It would be impossible to sell it since a minor cant have a credit card. I am a minor and sometimes I drew some slightly or full NSFW stuff but I don't see anything wrong in it.
I dont think it's a bad thing to do as long as the minor in question keeps a discrete behaviour towards it.

Minors cant see NSFW content because society thinks it would damage them but kids are not so dumb and they know how babies are made. So they can create their own NSFW art. Theres nothing wrong with that.


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## quoting_mungo (May 10, 2019)

riddles said:


> nah, because you're now an adult with an adult understanding of your actions.


Just to add to this: if your NSFW art created when you were a minor features a character representing you, and is based on your physical body/appearance at the time, that's getting into iffy territory. How iffy depends on just how young you were at the time.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> This person gets it. Viewing pornography (if you’re below 18) is illegal in the U.S. Kids drawing NSFW art is SUPER illegal because they are creating pornography (a child is creating pornography...it sounds bad because it is). People commenting on their work is also unsettling to say the least.
> 
> Kids who lie about their age (or neglect to tell people) and do requests or commissions anyway are doing an illegal act. This could ruin the lives of people who unknowingly requested art from them. The people requesting art from them could also take advantage of them too. The situation is just bad all the way around. Kids drawing NSFW art and posting it online should not be encouraged to do so in any shape or form. Those who say “Well I did it at their age and nothing happened to me” do not know our laws and the consequences of our laws if they get caught. This is coming from a person who drew NSFW art when I was a young by the way. The big difference between the past and present is that I NEVER posted my NSFW art until I was 18 because I wasn’t an idiot, but kids now have access to the internet and post these pictures without knowing the consequences at all.



There is no law in the U.S that states a kid can't draw porn. Granted, there is a law that states that kids can't make porn of themselves or other children, but other than that its completely legal for me to draw naked pictures of my own free will as long as those pictures aren't of other kids at all. The law is there to make sure that CP is never made, which is why you hear stories of kids getting into trouble for sending dick picks to eachother, because technically that counts as CP.

There has never been a case where a kid has been charged with sexual misconduct for drawing naked pictures of their OCs or other fictional characters, but there has been charges against kids who have taken naked pictures of themselves or of other kids.

It's also quick to note that there is a law that states a person can't _show _a kid porn, but that law doesn't mention drawn images made by the child themselves. Also there's no law saying its illegal for a child to actually watch porn, just that other people can't show it to them. If a kid finds out what porn is on their own, nothing can legally be done about it unless an adult knows about whats going on. But in that case, the adult is the one at fault. If your an adult and you know a kid is watching porn and you don't do anything about it, you can get into a bit of trouble. 

So all in all, US law states that as long as the porn doesn't involve minors in anyway, its perfectly legal. Also US law varies from state to state, but where I am (which is Texas) there is no law that says I can't draw porn:

brettpodolsky.com: Texas Pornography Laws | Brett A. Podolsky | Brett A. Podolsky

But there is a law that says I have to be 18 years or older in order to buy or purchase it. Also note that the laws state that I can watch porn, but only if that porn involves people 18 years or older. There is no specific law at all that states that I, a minor, can't draw porn. 

This whole time I've been advocating against minors selling or doing requests for NSFW art pieces because where I am that can technically be stepping into horribly murky places.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> There is no law in the U.S that states a kid can't draw porn. Granted, there is a law that states that kids can't make porn of themselves or other children, but other than that its completely legal for me to draw naked pictures of my own free will as long as those pictures aren't of other kids at all. The law is there to make sure that CP is never made, which is why you hear stories of kids getting into trouble for sending dick picks to eachother, because technically that counts as CP.
> 
> There has never been a case where a kid has been charged with sexual misconduct for drawing naked pictures of their OCs or other fictional characters, but there has been charges against kids who have taken naked pictures of themselves or of other kids.
> 
> ...



But here’s the thing. The law says a child can’t view porn which means they can’t  view the porn they draw themselves if we go by the law (depending on the state). A child drawing porn for an audience of adults on the internet could lead to some bad outcomes. I’m not saying teens shouldn’t draw NSFW art (which ranges from violence to nudity). I drew that type of crap when I was young. What I’m saying is that the child should not post it online because it could attract attention from grown ass men. A child attracting adult attention from drawing  pornography is not good. We should not encourage it.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

_Ivory_ said:


> Theres nothing wrong with a minor creating and posting NSFW art. It would be impossible to sell it since a minor cant have a credit card. I am a minor and sometimes I drew some slightly or full NSFW stuff but I don't see anything wrong in it.
> I dont think it's a bad thing to do as long as the minor in question keeps a discrete behaviour towards it.
> 
> Minors cant see NSFW content because society thinks it would damage them but kids are not so dumb and they know how babies are made. So they can create their own NSFW art. Theres nothing wrong with that.



A minor can still sell it through PayPal.....and a lot do. This is what upsets me. The reason why adults do not want minors to view pornography is because children are impressionable and what they see through porn could literally effect them for the rest of their lives. For example, many fetishes develop in adolescence through the internet. Some fetishes are extremely dangerous and should not be viewed by children whose brain’s are still developing. 

I highly recommend you wait until you are older to post your NSFW art. It could attract unwanted attention and put you in dangerous situations with adults.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> But here’s the thing. The law says a child can’t view porn which means they can’t  view the porn they draw themselves if we go by the law (depending on the state). A child drawing porn for an audience of adults on the internet could lead to some bad outcomes. I’m not saying teens shouldn’t draw NSFW art (which ranges from violence to nudity). I drew that type of crap when I was young. What I’m saying is that the child should not post it online because it could attract attention from grown ass men. A child attracting adult attention from drawing  pornography is not good. We should not encourage it.



You shouldn't encourage *adult men* to be going after little kids then, and also thats not how the laws work. There isn't any law that states that if I draw porn myself that doesn't involve minors in anyway then I can be legally charged for it, at least here where i live in Texas. The law doesn't mention drawn images made by me. I can legally draw porn of a character without any legal trouble as long as the person in the drawing is 18 years or older. 

Also the law states that an adult can't show a minor porn, nothing about a minor watching porn on their own. There is no US law that says kids can't watch porn, but there is a law that says adults can't show kids porn. There is no law that says I can't draw porn, but there is a law that says I can't buy or sell porn. There is no law that says I can't draw porn, but there is a law that says I can't view porn unless that porn involves people 18 years or older. 

So in the state of Texas at least, it is one hundred percent legal for me to draw porn.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> You shouldn't encourage *adult men* to be going after little kids then, and also thats not how the laws work. There isn't any law that states that if I draw porn myself that doesn't involve minors in anyway then I can be legally charged for it, at least here where i live in Texas. The law doesn't mention drawn images made by me. I can legally draw porn of a character without any legal trouble as long as the person in the drawing is 18 years or older.
> 
> Also the law states that an adult can't show a minor porn, nothing about a minor watching porn on their own. There is no US law that says kids can't watch porn, but there is a law that says adults can't show kids porn. There is no law that says I can't draw porn, but there is a law that says I can't buy or sell porn. There is no law that says I can't draw porn, but there is a law that says I can't view porn unless that porn involves people 18 years or older.
> 
> So in the state of Texas at least, it is one hundred percent legal for me to draw porn.



What are you talking about dude? I wasn’t encouraging adult men. I have no idea what you’re talking about XD. I literally said that I *don’t* want NSFW art drawn by kids to attract adults that could prey on them. You must of misread what I said somehow. Please read it again.

Porn drawn by kids could attract adult men which can be really bad. Porn attracts adults because it’s target audience is adults. Plain and simple. I don’t think it’s right for kids to post their NSFW art online because of this. Also, I just realized I’m talking to a kid myself. I think that is why you don’t understand my perspective. You’re really young. I’ll just leave it at that. Hopefully I didn’t offend you by saying this. Just be careful kid. Be very very careful.


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## Fallowfox (May 10, 2019)

The main concern that I am getting from this thread is that the users who are minors don't seem to realise that there are good reasons they shouldn't post pornography, or appear to believe that the bad things which happen happen to other people- not them. 

This is clearly a subject that needs to be brought up in 'the conversation' that parents and teachers have with teenagers who are getting to the age that they might become interested ijn internet pornography.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> What are you talking about dude? I wasn’t encouraging adult men. I have no idea what you’re talking about XD. I literally said that I *don’t* want NSFW art drawn by kids to attract adults that could prey on them. You must of misread what I said somehow. Please read it again.
> 
> Porn drawn by kids could attract adult men which can be really bad. Porn attracts adults because it is made for adults. Plain and simple. I don’t think it’s right for kids to post their NSFW art online because of this. Also, I just realized I’m talking to a kid myself. I think that is why you don’t understand my perspective. You’re really young. I’ll just leave it at that. Hopefully I didn’t offend you by saying this. Just be careful kid. Be very very careful.



I never said you're encouraging adult men, I mean I did but I didn't really mean it that way and I couldn't find any other way to say it. I don't think you are actively encouraging adult men to go after little kids, not in that way at all. I'm sorry if it came off like that.

I've been thinking about why I've been getting pretty pissed at this one thread and its because all anyone here has anything to say is "We don't wanna encourage pedos", and idk it just comes off as victim blamey a little, because I have been the subject of many pedophiles conversations on the internet and nothing ever seems to be done about it. Like I can't play online games or even speak in some chatrooms (in games made for kids mind you) without running into one, and the only action that ever seems to be taken against them is a warning or a ban, and it never stops that person from just making another account on the game and scouting out other kids. 

I'm really tired of adults telling me I should just go somewhere else when the places I go are _supposed _to be one hundred percent safe for kids to go. And seeing how I live in a place where its perfectly legal for me to draw and post porn as long as that porn doesn't involve kids like me, I feel its perfectly within my right to post that art in places where its allowed. If some creepy guy comes into my mesagges I don't think I should be the one who has to change at all, its that creepy asshole who has to change. And if he can't change than he's the guy who ought to face legal action, not me. I think its horribly unjust to point the finger at kids who draw NSFW because you're afraid pedophiles will creep on them, than the actual pedophiles that creep on them. 

And this is coming from someone who never even actually posted anything NSFW. I have to admit that while I do draw it in my free time, I myself can't post it online because of certain circumstances, though I still stand by my opinion in that I should be allowed to do so. I feel like adults should stop patronizing kids so damn much, and actually fix the real issue at hand. The fact that I have naked pictures of my deer girl somewhere isn't the issue, the issue is that I have creepy assholes who won't leave me alone because of this. We should be finding ways to get rid of pedos on the internet, especially in places where we know kids are. 

Kids like me are gonna watch porn whether adults want us to or not, its just apart of growing up. Not only should we be teaching kids how to be safe on the internet, but also we should be trying to solve the many issues the internet has, like pedophiles in IMVU chatrooms, or creepy guys trying to get your snapchat in Avakin LIfe. If a kid is subject to a creepy pedo who won't leave them alone than I don't think we should be blaming them in anyway.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

The thing _I'm _getting from this thread is a lot of people are just really really uncomfortable with the notion that kids not only watch porn but also draw it, and are also really ingorant of actual US pornography laws because some of you actually think its against the law for kids to draw porn.


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## Fallowfox (May 10, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> The thing _I'm _getting from this thread is a lot of people are just really really uncomfortable with the notion that kids not only watch porn but also draw it, and are also really ingorant of actual US pornography laws because some of you actually think its against the law for kids to draw porn.



I'm British, so American laws aren't really what I'm concerned about in this discussion. I'm sure I would be quite ignorant about them. 

I recognise that teenagers have sex drives; I remember being in that situation. I'm not telling you that you can't draw something. I'm advising you that posting pornographic drawings on the internet will inevitably invite sexual interest from adults. 
If a thousand teenagers do this, we could easily imagine that a couple of them might go on to have very negative or even non-consensual sexual experiences as a result.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> The main concern that I am getting from this thread is that the users who are minors don't seem to realise that there are good reasons they shouldn't post pornography, or appear to believe that the bad things which happen happen to other people- not them.
> 
> This is clearly a subject that needs to be brought up in 'the conversation' that parents and teachers have with teenagers who are getting to the age that they might become interested ijn internet pornography.



Yes it should be discussed. I feel like kids are pretty ignorant to this you know. I wonder why schools aren’t teaching any of this. I remember when I was young it was drilled into our heads “stranger danger”. They need to do this with the internet. Hell the internet is a terrifying place where anybody can be tracked to their home address for god’s sake.



Fallowfox said:


> I'm British, so American laws aren't really what I'm concerned about in this discussion. I'm sure I would be quite ignorant about them.
> 
> I recognise that teenagers have sex drives; I remember being in that situation. I'm not telling you that you can't draw something. I'm advising you that posting pornographic drawings on the internet will inevitably invite sexual interest from adults.
> If a thousand teenagers do this, we could easily imagine that a couple of them might go on to have very negative or even non-consensual sexual experiences as a result.



And this is the most logical explanation you can give to this kid. I did my best to explain the situation to her but you worded it so much better.


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> Yes it should be discussed. I feel like kids are pretty ignorant to this you know. I wonder why schools aren’t teaching any of this. I remember when I was young it was drilled into our heads “stranger danger”. They need to do this with the internet. Hell the internet is a terrifying place where anybody can be tracked to their home address for god’s sake.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the most logical explanation you can give to this kid. I did my best to explain the situation to her but you worded it so much better.



I already explained why I think the whole sentiment of "Kids could attract pervy adults so we need to make sure they don't post any NSFW artwork on the internet" is wrong.

I think its wrong because it isn't at all addressing the actual problem which isn't that kids are posting NSFW artwork, but rather than kids are being harassed by pervy adults. All anyone wants to do is move the target, and thats it. You all can come up with so many solutions for limiting the amount of things children can do on the internet, but none of you seem to want to think about how to get rid of the actual problems on the internet.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> I already explained why I think the whole sentiment of "Kids could attract pervy adults so we need to make sure they don't post any NSFW artwork on the internet" is wrong.
> 
> I think its wrong because it isn't at all addressing the actual problem which isn't that kids are posting NSFW artwork, but rather than kids are being harassed by pervy adults. All anyone wants to do is move the target, and thats it. You all can come up with so many solutions for limiting the amount of things children can do on the internet, but none of you seem to want to think about how to get rid of the actual problems on the internet.



This is going to be the hard truth for you but I think it’s okay to tell you now. Perverted adults will never stop. You keep saying if only we focused on the adults. The thing is, the creepy adults will never stop. They are sick and sick people like that don’t learn. Kids on the other hand can actually learn to avoid these individuals on the internet like not posting NSFW art as a minor to attract these creeps. 

For example, a young girl shouldn’t walk the streets alone at night in a dark alley. If we applied your logic we would have a bunch of little girls walking alone in a dangerous alley way.


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## _Ivory_ (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> A minor can still sell it through PayPal.....and a lot do. This is what upsets me. The reason why adults do not want minors to view pornography is because children are impressionable and what they see through porn could literally effect them for the rest of their lives. For example, many fetishes develop in adolescence through the internet. Some fetishes are extremely dangerous and should not be viewed by children whose brain’s are still developing.
> 
> I highly recommend you wait until you are older to post your NSFW art. It could attract unwanted attention and put you in dangerous situations with adults.


Nope, all my kinks and tastes dont come from porn. It's just stuff that I like. And PayPal requires you to be 18 to have a credit card.
And I am smart about to reject unwanted attentions. Let's stop thinking that minors are total retards


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

_Ivory_ said:


> Nope, all my kinks and tastes dont come from porn. It's just stuff that I like. And PayPal requires you to be 18 to have a credit card.



No it doesn’t (if you live in the U.S). You can be 16 and have a PayPal with your parent agreeing with it. The reason I know this is because I had one pretty young. People who have a PayPal don’t even have to link it to their bank account at all before you make a transfer. Again, the reason why I know this is because I’ve used PayPal as a kid for SFW commissions. Didn’t even have a bank account but was still able to use my PayPal money online. This is why when people say it’s imporssible for children to make money with their art online... I die inside XD. It amazes me how ignorant (not stupid) people are to this. I can’t blame you for not knowing it because you’re still a kid but adults need to know that kids do sell their art through PayPal and many of them do by convincing their parents to make one. 

And again, children are impressionable when it comes to the things they view. You might not think so but when you get older you’ll realize how much the things you see shape who you are.


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## _Ivory_ (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> No it doesn’t (if you live in the U.S). You can be 16 and have a PayPal with your parent agreeing with it. The reason I know this is because I had one pretty young. People who have a PayPal don’t even have to link it to their bank account at all before you make a transfer. Again, the reason why I know this is because I’ve used PayPal as a kid for SFW commissions. Didn’t even have a bank account but was still able to use my PayPal money online. This is why when people say it’s imporssible for children to make money with their art online... I die inside XD. It amazes me how ignorant (not stupid) people are to this. I can’t blame you for not knowing it because you’re still a kid but adults need to know that kids do sell their art through PayPal and many of them do by convincing their parents to make one.
> 
> And again, children are impressionable when it comes to the things they view. You might not think so but when you get older you’ll realize how much the things you see shape who you are.


Here in Italy you need to be 18. How could I know that in us it was different?
I know that experiences shape you but applying that on everything is dumb. Porn doesn't make me change my taste. I grow, I change, I get more mature and taht what shapes my character and me as a person. Experiences do their part yes but  it's not like every single thing you see changes your mind. If things worked like that we would become crazy


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> This is going to be the hard truth for you but I think it’s okay to tell you now. Perverted adults will never stop. You keep saying if only we focused on the adults. The thing is, the creepy adults will never stop. They are sick and sick people like that don’t learn. Kids on the other hand can actually learn to avoid these individuals on the internet like not posting NSFW art as a minor to attract these creeps.
> 
> For example, a young girl shouldn’t walk the streets alone at night in a dark alley. If we applied your logic we would have a bunch of little girls walking alone in a dangerous alley way.



Well before this conversation I wasn't mad, but now I'm utterly pissed at you. 

First off, that analogy about the girl in the alleyway is the most victim blaming thing you have ever said this entire thread. How dare you say something unempathetic? It is never a victims fault if they fall at the hands of any kind of sexual assault or abuse. A girl should have the right to walk wherever the hell she damn well pleases in this world, we shouldn't try to make _her _adapt to a violent society because the people in charge can't figure out a way to make sure something awful as rape or assault happens in dark alleyways. Maybe if, and I've already said this, people started thinking of ways to solve the actual problems instead of taking the easy way out, we wouldn't have to deal with girls getting raped in dark alleyways.

Secondly, for all this talk of what minors should be allowed to do, no one here has listened to a word I've said all afternoon about trying to protect minors. We should do more than just educate them on the internet, we should try to help them and protect them from vile people on it. And the best way to do that is by removing said people from the internet.

Imagine for a moment that there was a park, and one day a pedophile showed up and started to harass kids. Everyone decides to get their kids out of the park, which is a good first step, but no one actually calls the cops. 

Thats what it feels like everytime I'm on a site and I get a creepy message from some pedo. Everyone just expects me to move, to go somewhere else, like thats supposed to solve the actual problem. The pedophile will still be there when I leave, whats to stop him from just going to another child and trying to get into their DM's?

Thats not to mention the fact that earlier I already admitted that I, as a child, have already been subject to creepy pedos, so I don't even know why people are suddenly trying to peddle this lie that if a kid draws NSFW they'll draw attention from creepy adults. Because odds are that they already _have _faced attention from pervy adults, and nothing was done about it, because the only thing anyone told them when they complained about it was to just "leave". We can't continue to ignore the actual problem in favor of quick solutions which is just telling kids not to do this or that.

Your comment about girls and dark alleyways has just really made me mad, and I can't believe someone would actually say something so awful on a subject such as this. You've gone from thinking it's illegal for a minor to draw and watch porn (which we've already established is false), to slyly trying to use victim blaming as a way to further your own argument on why kids can't draw furry porn. 

I don't think I want to talk to you ever again, you've upset me enough today, goodbye. I don't care if you have something else to add to this conversation because I'm done and I have said my piece.


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## quoting_mungo (May 10, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> The thing _I'm _getting from this thread is a lot of people are just really really uncomfortable with the notion that kids not only watch porn but also draw it, and are also really ingorant of actual US pornography laws because some of you actually think its against the law for kids to draw porn.


I give no fucks about what you do privately. A lot of us have said we drew porn as minors as well. However, I do find it selfish of minors to say "I'm going to post this porn I drew to this website" when the law is such that their porn being hosted there can potentially become a legal liability for both the site and adults who see the artwork.

It's not just about adults doing deliberately inappropriate things putting minors at risk.
It's about adults making lewd comments on NSFW art posted by minors without realizing the person they're commenting to is a minor, or sharing NSFW art with a minor on Discord etc again not realizing they're talking to a minor.
It's about websites potentially being shut down and their owners facing fines and/or prison time if they knowingly allow minors to use the site to view and post pornography.
Those non-malicious adults and those website owners are put at risk when minors try to get into adult spaces. Ignoring that because you want so badly to be in that space is selfish, nothing less.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

_Ivory_ said:


> Here in Italy you need to be 18. How could I know that in us it was different?
> I know that experiences shape you but applying that on everything is dumb. Porn doesn't make me change my taste. I grow, I change, I get more mature and taht what shapes my character and me as a person. Experiences do their part yes but  it's not like every single thing you see changes your mind. If things worked like that we would become crazy



I didn’t say everything. I meant it specifically with porn.I’m telling you dude, it does effect you. I use to be a kid that’s thought I wasn’t impressionable. I was wrong. We are all impressionable when we are kids. Porn really does have an effect on the mind when you’re young. It gives you unrealistic expectations and it leaves you with an empty hole inside your heart when you can’t tell the difference between reality and fiction. I’m just telling you to be careful of what you see because some of what you view may effect you negatively. Again, some fetishes are really dangerous and harmful. I’ve seen horrible things in this community that make me want to throw up. I can’t imagine what that would do to a kid.


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## Spicy Cheeto (May 10, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> I give no fucks about what you do privately. A lot of us have said we drew porn as minors as well. However, I do find it selfish of minors to say "I'm going to post this porn I drew to this website" when the law is such that their porn being hosted there can potentially become a legal liability for both the site and adults who see the artwork.
> 
> It's not just about adults doing deliberately inappropriate things putting minors at risk.
> It's about adults making lewd comments on NSFW art posted by minors without realizing the person they're commenting to is a minor, or sharing NSFW art with a minor on Discord etc again not realizing they're talking to a minor.
> ...



Thankyou


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## Liseran Thistle (May 10, 2019)

I realize that I was acting very rudely, and that I have been selfish in my opinions. And for that I say I'm sorry if I have upset you from discussing this topic. I have decided that maybe I was a bit misguided in what I thought and that maybe I should reconsider what I've said today. I don't want you to think of less of me because of what I said to you in this thread, and if I truly did offend you, I would like to move past it.


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## riddles (May 10, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> I give no fucks about what you do privately. A lot of us have said we drew porn as minors as well. However, I do find it selfish of minors to say "I'm going to post this porn I drew to this website" when the law is such that their porn being hosted there can potentially become a legal liability for both the site and adults who see the artwork.
> 
> It's not just about adults doing deliberately inappropriate things putting minors at risk.
> It's about adults making lewd comments on NSFW art posted by minors without realizing the person they're commenting to is a minor, or sharing NSFW art with a minor on Discord etc again not realizing they're talking to a minor.
> ...



to add onto this:

being a registered sex offender makes people's lives very difficult. it's a criminal record. it makes looking for work very difficult since it's highly stigmatised, and if it's a conviction involving minors you will straight-up never work with children. that's a lot of employment opportunities gone, from schooling to paediatrics. you will struggle with housing, since you have a criminal record, and sex offenses involving minors means you might not be able to live within x distance of schools or parks. you might not be able to visit or move to some countries due to having a record.
public registers means people will know of your conviction. you'll possibly face having neighbours and peers treating you like shit.
depending on your country you might have to regularly report in with police. you might have restrictions put on your movements or associations. you might not be able to apply for loans, meaning you will likely never be able to purchase a house or a new car.

as a teen you can post it, regardless of the law, but you need to know the consequences of your actions in order to have an informed perspective. because ignoring the law_ does_ have consequences. depending on what you distribute and to who, you could end up on a list that does all of this. or the other people could. this shit 100% ruins lives and shouldn't be taken lightly, no matter how badly people want to show off their art.


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## _Ivory_ (May 11, 2019)

Spicy Cheeto said:


> I didn’t say everything. I meant it specifically with porn.I’m telling you dude, it does effect you. I use to be a kid that’s thought I wasn’t impressionable. I was wrong. We are all impressionable when we are kids. Porn really does have an effect on the mind when you’re young. It gives you unrealistic expectations and it leaves you with an empty hole inside your heart when you can’t tell the difference between reality and fiction. I’m just telling you to be careful of what you see because some of what you view may effect you negatively. Again, some fetishes are really dangerous and harmful. I’ve seen horrible things in this community that make me want to throw up. I can’t imagine what that would do to a kid.


I understand your concern but I am disgusted as well by many of those things. My kinks are pretty standard.  Nothing exaggerate or extreme. I know porn is often completely different from reality, there is noone that lasts for 2 hours and other crazy stuff like that.


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## quoting_mungo (May 11, 2019)

I want to add onto what I said in this post, because I realize I may have been a bit harsh in how I phrased some things.

I still hold that it's disrespectful to violate a website's terms of service, rules, etc. because you want to do something those documents say not to. I understand the desire to share or access art those documents say you shouldn't, but that doesn't make it less disrespectful.

However, suggesting that it's always selfish to do so was an oversimplification. It's selfish to do so _provided you have been informed of the fact that it's a legal liability_. That is something I 100% think adults could do better on, in general. We've discussed it in this thread, but I sure didn't know when I was a teen, or I wouldn't have done some of the things I did. If we don't make sure kids know that this is _why_ they can't join adult spaces, obviously we can't call them selfish for trying. For insinuating otherwise I apologize.

But to knowingly try after being informed that their presence may pose a risk to the people they interact with? _That_ is hella selfish.



riddles said:


> being a registered sex offender makes people's lives very difficult. it's a criminal record. it makes looking for work very difficult since it's highly stigmatised, and if it's a conviction involving minors you will straight-up never work with children. that's a lot of employment opportunities gone, from schooling to paediatrics. you will struggle with housing, since you have a criminal record, and sex offenses involving minors means you might not be able to live within x distance of schools or parks. you might not be able to visit or move to some countries due to having a record.
> public registers means people will know of your conviction. you'll possibly face having neighbours and peers treating you like shit.
> depending on your country you might have to regularly report in with police. you might have restrictions put on your movements or associations. you might not be able to apply for loans, meaning you will likely never be able to purchase a house or a new car.


Just to add, another restriction that may be put on you as a sex offender: You may be banned from using certain types of Internet services, or just from using the Internet altogether. This may mean you can't even own a smart phone, and will further limit employment opportunities since everyone and their dog seem to be doing applications exclusively online these days.

Now, I personally think publicly accessible sex offender registries are shit, and shouldn't be a thing. 
But in some places they are, and my disapproval won't change the reality of that.


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## Fallowfox (May 11, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> I realize that I was acting very rudely, and that I have been selfish in my opinions. And for that I say I'm sorry if I have upset you from discussing this topic. I have decided that maybe I was a bit misguided in what I thought and that maybe I should reconsider what I've said today. I don't want you to think of less of me because of what I said to you in this thread, and if I truly did offend you, I would like to move past it.



Of course we don't think less of you. Thanks for being open to changing your mind by the way- that rarely happens on the internet! ;D


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## MAN_BURD (May 11, 2019)

Bobby Shmurda said:
			
		

> I been selling crack since like the fifth grade (Like the fifth grade)
> Really never made no difference what the shit made (What the shit made)
> Jaja taught me flip them packs and how to maintain (How to maintain)
> Get that money back and spend it on the same thang



I think these lines are particularly relatable because I've had a similar experience. I've been drawing gay toilet sex manga since the fifth grade, and my good friend (a 40 year old man that dmed me on FA) told me just how to do it by sending me pictures of his penis. Every commission I sold went right back to buying a better tablet and software.

Now with that kind of lived experience, how can I deny a child the joy of drawing tentacle hentai?


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## Fallowfox (May 11, 2019)

MAN_BURD said:


> I think these lines are particularly relatable because I've had a similar experience. I've been drawing gay toilet sex manga since the fifth grade, and my good friend (a 40 year old man that dmed me on FA) told me just how to do it by sending me pictures of his penis. Every commission I sold went right back to buying a better tablet and software.
> 
> Now with that kind of lived experience, how can I deny a child the joy of drawing tentacle hentai?



If any of this story is true, have you forwarded the messages to the police?

edit: I checked your other posts and they all seem to be silly, so probably not!


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