# FIAWOL vs FIJAGH (lifestylers vs hobbyists)



## bearetic (Apr 7, 2009)

Fandom is a way of life!
vs
Fandom is just a God-damned hobby! (I apologize, but that's the acronym.)

http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/FIAWOL
http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/FIJAGH

IF you had to pick one or the other to describe your involvement with the furry fandom, which one would you pick? Sure, there are more than two ways to approach the fandom, but just for fun, let's all pick a side!

I stopped deluding myself a few days ago and accepted that I'm a lifestyler. Either that, or it's a pretty damn big hobby, lol.

I strongly identify as a furry, and it's a pretty big part of my identity as a whole. I love to talk about it, but try not to be obnoxious. I wear subtle things, like animal shirts, and not so subtle things, like a makeshift collar.

It's had a big influence on my life. It's a big reason why I'm in, and continue to stay in, college for art. I've taken to drawing more, and am even starting on my friends.

And, there's probably more.

Now, I'm a sane, balanced, well-adjusted, increasingly socially adept person, but if I had to pick a side, I'd say that the fandom is a way of life for me.


What about you? Tell your story!


EDIT: Changed my answer, lol. FIJAGH now. Weak? nah.....


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## Xipoid (Apr 7, 2009)

I would say my involvement is a hobby because it is merely one piece in the puzzle that is me. However, even if it was a more core unit, I still would not say lifestyle as I do not feel there is any real ideology in which to identify with. There are too many broad views and dissensions for any cohesive categorization, and I hate categorizing myself without a near perfect correlation.


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## PriestRevan (Apr 7, 2009)

Hobby. 

/thread


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## bearetic (Apr 7, 2009)

If anything's unclear, I'm tired. I'm sorry.



Xipoid said:


> I would say my involvement is a hobby because it is merely one piece in the puzzle that is me.


That's one way to think about it. I'm glad you said it.
But, then again, would _anything_ fit the definition of "lifestyle?" Even the biggest part of you is just once piece of the puzzle, unless you count existence and being human as "lifestyles."



Xipoid said:


> However, even if it was a more core unit, I still would not say lifestyle as I do not feel there is any real ideology in which to identify with. There are too many broad views and dissensions for any cohesive categorization, and I hate categorizing myself without a near perfect correlation.


I guess this answers my question. An ideology would be one thing that could be considered a "lifestyle". Pick any example. Maybe I should have more carefully considered the meaning of the word "lifestyle". Maybe the word is more specific than common usage would tell us.

Not to insult or be condescending at all, but I guess I should have looked at a dictionary before posting. I apologize for tl;dr dictionary quoting. I'm a bit tired. I'm up doing homework, but about to go to sleep.




> lifeÂ·style also life-style or life style (lÄ«fî€ŸstÄ«lâ€²)
> n.
> 
> A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group: "It was a millionaire's lifestyle on the pocketbook of a hairdresser" (People).
> ...


On the other hand:




> hobÂ·by1 (hÅbî€ŸÄ“)
> n. pl. hobÂ·bies
> 
> An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.


Having that kind of perspective, I'd say that being a college student is more of a way of life for me right now than furry (not my regular occupation) is, but I might still be involved enough to call it a way of life. I do aim to do it well enough and regularly enough to maybe make money from it someday, at least as part of all the art I'd do in my spare time.

I'm not totally sure on what side I'd fall on, although it's going to be imperfect. After all, I set it up so that we're picking from two extremes.


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## Werevixen (Apr 7, 2009)

It's a hobby that's stuck in the 'ON' position all the time. So it's both and neither. :v


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## ToeClaws (Apr 7, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> It's a hobby that's stuck in the 'ON' position all the time. So it's both and neither. :v



^-- This.  I don't live it as a lifestyle or anything, nor do I hit up cons or do IM's, Mucks and so on.  But I do love the art and the nice folks, and do enjoy producing art and stories to give back to the fandom.  It's enough of an influential mindset that I could never have a mate who was not furry themselves, or at least 100% accepting of the idea.


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## Salrith (Apr 7, 2009)

It's not a hobby for me, it is an integral part of me, so -- lifestyle. I don't go to cons or such either, mostly because there aren't any accessible to me, but it influences me to a large degree. I agree, Toe, I doubt I could have a serious boyfriend if they didn;t at least accept it, either...


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## HoneyPup (Apr 7, 2009)

Hobby.


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## Attaman (Apr 7, 2009)

Hobby, but mostly because I like debating with people and this forum provides lots of arguments with logical fallacies just waiting to have their glaringly big holes pointed out.  The fandom sure as hell doesn't represent my values or style of living either.  

If any hobby has influenced my lifestyle, it's 40K.  And being a canon nut, that means there is no chance of this fandom ever becoming more than a 'hobby' for me.


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## Ozriel (Apr 7, 2009)

Hobby, nothing more or less.

Being an artist is more of a lifestyle for me.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 7, 2009)

I would say it is a hobby for me. I don't involve the fandom much at all outside the internet (Unless watching the odd cartoon and collecting a few squirrely plushies would count). Other than those i just stated, most of my furry activities as it were are concentrated online.


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## Irreverent (Apr 7, 2009)

I reconnected with the fandom late last year.  I was searching for something then but I didn't know what I was looking for.  I still don't.  I love the art, the stories, the yiff. I enjoy the camaraderie and the diversity that the FA/FAF community brings.  There's a sense of connection, a tenuous single thread that may lead me to something else.

And through FA/FAF I've met some great people!  Connected with some "like minds," and some not so like minds too.  Damn, there _are _people like me out there. Its been one hell of a ride.

The fandom _is_ a hobby, but its becoming more than that too; its just not a lifestyle....yet.  My mate (for now) is non-furry; there's a challenge.  I've sort of got a lot on my plate right now IRL, both at home and at work.  There may be time to explore more later, time will tell.


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## Doubler (Apr 7, 2009)

'Furry is whatever you make of it, damnit!' or: FIWYMOID 
But at this time it is a hobby for me.


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## Xipoid (Apr 7, 2009)

character said:


> That's one way to think about it. I'm glad you said it.
> But, then again, would _anything_ fit the definition of "lifestyle?" Even the biggest part of you is just once piece of the puzzle, unless you count existence and being human as "lifestyles."
> 
> ...
> ...



Possibly, but for me, a way of life is simply a way I conduct my life to follow a specific ideal. I guess you could say it is the personal choices I make regarding my system of values.

I have not yet come close to finishing my self-identity (not that I can ever truly finish), but if there was to be a part of me that I would classify myself under a lifestyle, I have two to name. The Gentleman and the Health Nut. Though, I still have much left to refine before I may accept the title of either.


The Health Nut is rather simple. It is just optimizing and maximizing your health and fitness through what you eat as well as touching on physical activity to keep yourself toned, conditioned, and well-balanced. While I have accomplished much of this, but my current problems revolves around having to inform myself on more advanced and esoteric information.

The Gentleman is a world of its own. My work in this endeavor will never be complete even when I die. It is a complex and yet simple ideal all at the same time. There is no easy way to state what a gentleman is in a single, fluid sentence (at least for me).


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## Panzermanathod (Apr 7, 2009)

I guess hobby. I've said times before that I'm not really a "furry", as my "fandom" doesn't go beyond drawing and looking up anthro art.


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## StainMcGorver (Apr 7, 2009)

Where's 'F'ISIREPITINEAH?
('Furry' is Something I Rarely Ever Participate in That it's Not Even a Hobby.)


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## Gavrill (Apr 7, 2009)

It's whatever you want it to be. If you think of it as a hobby, it's a hobby. 

That's like saying video games are a hobby all the time, which isn't true. Some people make it into a career. IMO, that's when it starts transcending "hobby" stage.


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## Aden (Apr 7, 2009)

FIJAGGGHHHHGHHH *flails*


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## Dahguns (Apr 7, 2009)

im neither
dont consider this a hobby at all just an interest i have


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## bearetic (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm feeling "snippy" today. Taking a break from last minute homework. Click on the arrow to read the original post.



Irreverent said:


> *snip*



This, and other examples like it, are what makes this question complicated, this thread interesting, and life (and the fandom) great. 

Just taking a stab at what you, and others like you, are looking for. Love? Fun? Companionship? A certain mixing of chemicals in your brain that make you feel just right? lol



Xipoid said:


> *snip*


This inspires me to center my life more around my goals. Call myself a "this" or "that" and work towards it. I was headed in that direction anyway, but this just gave me another push. Thanks!



Placebo said:


> Some people make (video games) into a career. IMO, that's when it starts transcending "hobby" stage.


QFT.



Aden said:


> FIJAGGGHHHHGHHH *flails*


lawl


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## south syde dobe (Apr 7, 2009)

Its a hobby for me, I can't draw and I don't have time to do anything even if I wanted to and yeah its just some parts just don't want any part of it.  I am happy that I've met some cool people here and stuff though but I'm not really into telling people or even leaving clues I'm in the fandom :\


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## Irreverent (Apr 7, 2009)

character said:


> Love? Fun? Companionship? A certain mixing of chemicals in your brain that make you feel just right? lol



Maybe.  For sure!  Absolutely!  Perhaps, no doubt there is a serotonin reaction of some sort. 

You can wander through a museum and enjoy the art.  But that's solitary.

Do it with a like-minded bunch of individuals with common tastes and maybe go out for coffee afterward and it becomes that much more richer an experience.  It becomes communal; even though the main media of the fandom (this site, the web) it can be virtual and vicarious.


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## virus (Apr 7, 2009)

FUUUUUUUUUUUU. Its neither. _Its a state of mind_.  Hobbies involve something physical. Lifestyles you have to base your entire day around it. Well I am sure there ARE examples of such. Most people just take it as a state of mind, its always on, always in the back burner and will get swapped around according to the persons day.

You have to be delusional to have furry as a hobby or lifestyle.


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## Shino (Apr 7, 2009)

Hmm... lifestyle. Definitely lifestyle. Being a furry is so ingraned into me that oftentimes I _do_ believe I am my fursona. More than once I've caught myself staring at my hands expecting paws. That, and I'd like to think I'm strongly involved with the community. Of course, I wasn't aware of furries until about a year ago, so I'm still getting used to the idea that I don't have to supress the furry feelings I've had my whole life.

*Looks over what I've wrote*

Hmm... maybe I need to see a therapist. Nah, I'd just end up scaring her.


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## Icky (Apr 7, 2009)

virus said:


> FUUUUUUUUUUUU. Its neither. _Its a state of mind_. Hobbies involve something physical. Lifestyles you have to base your entire day around it. Well I am sure there ARE examples of such. Most people just take it as a state of mind, its always on, always in the back burner and will get swapped around according to the persons day.
> 
> You have to be delusional to have furry as a hobby or lifestyle.


This was the most accurate post for me so far. Being furry is always there, and sometimes I think about it and become involved in it, other times I just put it to the side to work on other things.


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## Juna (Apr 7, 2009)

Hobby. The art has always been my thing, nothing else really floats my boat. Actually a lot of the stuff beyond the art really creaps me out >:


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## Ratte (Apr 7, 2009)

Hobby, currently.


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## Nargle (Apr 7, 2009)

But my hobbies are my life =C They're like.. a huge part of who I am!

I'm an artist, I'm a dog lover, and I'm a quirky girl that likes to run around in a tail.

Where's that option?


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## bearetic (Apr 8, 2009)

virus said:


> FUUUUUUUUUUUU. Its neither. _Its a state of mind_.  Hobbies involve something physical. Lifestyles you have to base your entire day around it. Well I am sure there ARE examples of such. Most people just take it as a state of mind, its always on, always in the back burner and will get swapped around according to the persons day.
> 
> You have to be delusional to have furry as a hobby or lifestyle.



I can agree with your assertion that it's a state of mind, but that's it. It can be a hobby and a lifestyle, and you don't have to be delusional for it to be either one. Your definitions are too strict, and wrong.

I'd say more, but I have to go to sleep soon.



Juna said:


> Hobby. The art has always been my thing, nothing else really floats my boat. Actually a lot of the stuff beyond the art really creaps me out >:



It all started with the art for me... but I eventually got into other things. I'm not (just) talking about yiff. Keep an open mind and you might just find you'll enjoy yourself more! Or maybe you won't. Whatever floats your boat. 

And yes, we all know there's a lot of creepy shit out there. Even within the art @_@



Irreverent said:


> Maybe.  For sure!  Absolutely!  Perhaps, no doubt there is a serotonin reaction of some sort.
> 
> You can wander through a museum and enjoy the art.  But that's solitary.
> 
> Do it with a like-minded bunch of individuals with common tastes and maybe go out for coffee afterward and it becomes that much more richer an experience. It becomes communal; even though the main media of the fandom (this site, the web) it can be virtual and vicarious.



This post helped me take the plunge into arranging to meet an irl fur I met online. Hope it happens, and hope it goes well!



Nargle said:


> But my hobbies are my life =C They're like.. a huge part of who I am!
> 
> I'm an artist, I'm a dog lover, and I'm a quirky girl that likes to run around in a tail.
> 
> Where's that option?



...and around the corner.
lol j/k

Once again demonstrating the inadequacy of this question. It's a false dichotomy intended to start TALKY TALKY. It's for fun! Pick a side anyway! Or, don't pick a side, start discussion, sit back and listen, and make a new side! Whatever!

To all: I know there are more than two ways to approach the fandom. I'm glad y'all are seeing that. Awesome discussion!


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## Charrio (Apr 8, 2009)

Its a way of life for me, lol seems to be all i draw or choose lol


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 8, 2009)

Shino said:


> Hmm... lifestyle. Definitely lifestyle. Being a furry is so ingraned into me that oftentimes I _do_ believe I am my fursona. More than once I've caught myself staring at my hands expecting paws. That, and I'd like to think I'm strongly involved with the community. Of course, I wasn't aware of furries until about a year ago, so I'm still getting used to the idea that I don't have to supress the furry feelings I've had my whole life.



Most likely something of this nature. Except I'm still learning how to draw .


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## pheonix (Apr 8, 2009)

Furry is neither of the above options. Furry is just one more part of you.  Being gay or bi isn't a way of life or a hobby it's just what you are. If you can't understand that then just GTFO.


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## Kanin (Apr 8, 2009)

pheonix said:


> Furry is neither of the above options. Furry is just one more part of you. Being gay or bi isn't a way of life or a hobby it's just what you are. If you can't understand that then just GTFO.


 
^This


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 8, 2009)

pheonix said:


> Furry is neither of the above options. Furry is just one more part of you.  Being gay or bi isn't a way of life or a hobby it's just what you are. If you can't understand that then just GTFO.



He only gave us 2 choices .


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## Salrith (Apr 8, 2009)

This is a good point, Earth *grins*
But I agree with Pheonix, if I can... said much the same in... some topic around here... somewhere! }:=8P


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## HotActionYiffFur (Apr 8, 2009)

Hobby for me.

Wouldn't change my life without it; wouldn't ever deny it as well.


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 8, 2009)

Salrith said:


> This is a good point, Earth *grins*
> But I agree with Pheonix, if I can... said much the same in... some topic around here... somewhere! }:=8P



Yeah what Phoenix is true .


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## Jashwa (Apr 8, 2009)

I answered way of life, because it's a part of who I am.  Even if it isn't really a way of life, it's closer to that than to just being a hobby.


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## ilobmirt (Apr 8, 2009)

Furry is a hobby, activity, and social ecosystem to me :3

/post


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## Trpdwarf (Apr 8, 2009)

I will always fail to see why anyone who calls it is a lifestyle is taking it a bit too far. It's a hobby and when a hobby becomes a lifestyle something is wrong. How do you make a lifestyle out of liking a form of art? Makes no sense. A hobby makes sense...but a lifestyle? Eh....sounds like a people are taking it a bit too far, like Stalkingcat did with his whole misanthropy and wanting to be a real tiger.

I'm sorry, being a fur is not supposed to be that much a part of you that it becomes a lifestyle. It's an entire fandom with art at it's core. That's that. How can that be a lifestyle? How?

EDIT:

*lifeâ‹…style*

â€‚   		

 â€‚/ËˆlaÉªfËŒstaÉªl/ 

  Show Spelled Pronunciation  [lahyf-stahyl] 

  Show IPA     â€“noun   the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.

English, I have it. What about the rest of you?


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## Jelly (Apr 8, 2009)

Aside from this forum, and possibly my Second Life avatar, I have no involvement with furry.
That being said, furry is a disturbing fetish and a semantic nightmare.


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## bearetic (Apr 8, 2009)

MUST READ:
http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/FIAWOL
http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/FIJAGH
I hope this sheds some light here. It's what I had in mind when I created this thread.



pheonix said:


> Furry is neither of the above options. Furry is just one more part of you.  Being gay or bi isn't a way of life or a hobby it's just what you are. If you can't understand that then just GTFO.



Makes a ton of sense (I disagree with "neither," though). The gay/bi analogy puts things in perspective. Yes, it's just one more part of you, not all of who you are. That's what I take from that post.

I guess the question is, is it one of the smaller things, or a really really big part of you?

 Maybe the question could be "Hobby... or BIG hobby?" But that wouldn't be any fun, now would it?

I was intending this question to be more of a self-analysis, and less of a semantics battle, but that's a part of the whole package.



Jashwa said:


> I answered way of life, because it's a part of who I am. Even if it isn't really a way of life, it's closer to that than to just being a hobby.



This is what I was thinking people would do. Think about themselves and pick a side closest to the way they feel.



Trpdwarf said:


> I will always fail to see why anyone who calls it is a lifestyle is taking it a bit too far. It's a hobby and when a hobby becomes a lifestyle something is wrong. How do you make a lifestyle out of liking a form of art? Makes no sense. A hobby makes sense...but a lifestyle? Eh....sounds like a people are taking it a bit too far, like Stalkingcat did with his whole misanthropy and wanting to be a real tiger.
> 
> I'm sorry, being a fur is not supposed to be that much a part of you that it becomes a lifestyle. It's an entire fandom with art at it's core. That's that. How can that be a lifestyle? How?
> 
> ...



Imperfect extremes, although it could be a bit of an unhealthy obsession for me, or at least was at one time.

But see my original (tl;dr) dictionary quote on the controversy over the trivialization of this word, and you'll understand half this thread.



> lifeÂ·style also life-style or life style (lÄ«fî€ŸstÄ«lâ€²)
> n.
> 
> A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group: "It was a millionaire's lifestyle on the pocketbook of a hairdresser" (People).
> ...


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## Ozriel (Apr 8, 2009)

Furry lifestylers are the cancer that is killing the fandom.
Let's just keep it as an interest/Hobby.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Apr 8, 2009)

Hobby.  I don't keep in touch with the fandom much.  Just FA and here in general.


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## Bellini Tabloid (Apr 8, 2009)

It's like a club, so I guess both. Though I don't keep much in touch, except chatting on FAF. So I guess a hobby now, I'll see where it takes me :/


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## Arcadium (Apr 8, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> It's a hobby that's stuck in the 'ON' position all the time. So it's both and neither. :v



I second. I never stop being a furry, as i am one all the time. But, i don't make me to obvious. If someone wants to have a conversation on it, i'm there, and i constantly ponder about it. BUT, i do have tons of other things i dig, and am associated with, such as my techie'ness, and my Love for music.


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## Trpdwarf (Apr 8, 2009)

> Imperfect extremes, although it could be a bit of an unhealthy obsession for me, or at least was at one time.
> 
> But see my original (tl;dr) dictionary quote on the controversy over the trivialization of this word, and you'll understand half this thread.


Not really considering all sorts of furries cream their pants over a guy who further degrades the image of the fandom even though he half admits he's not really a furry.

I already understand this thread without to having shift through the posts. Furry is not a lifestyle period. You have people who get it, and people who don't. For the ones who don't they don't understand the intended connotations of the word "Lifeystle". but then again most don't.

At the end of the day the way you dress is not going to be attached to the furry fandom because we don't have furry clothes. You cannot call wearing a tail and ears furry, or wearing a collar furrie because several other groups did both first, or at least the latter, the former was originally picked up by Anime.

There is no such thing as a "Furry Attitude" and economy does not even begin to fit into the picture. We don't have habits either. We have nothing to distinguish us as exclusively different to the point of having our own life-style. If anything we have a fandom, a sub-culture beginning to form, and some people who are really obsessed but as of now it has not socially developed into a "Lifestyle". Nothing more needs to be said.

The world Lifestyle has been watered down over the years but even at it's weakest it does not define us where we are today. Regardless most people are going to be against it becoming a lifestyle because in the process of it meeting the requirements to fit the defination the fandom will implode and lose everything that makes it what it is. We lose everything we have if we allow it to become a lifestyle.


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## Trpdwarf (Apr 8, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Furry lifestylers are the cancer that is killing the fandom.
> Let's just keep it as an interest/Hobby.



Agreed.


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## JakXT (Apr 10, 2009)

.


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## Chronic (Apr 10, 2009)

It's a little bit of both, depending on how much of a socially unacceptable faggot you are.


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 10, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Not really considering all sorts of furries cream their pants over a guy who further degrades the image of the fandom even though he half admits he's not really a furry.
> 
> I already understand this thread without to having shift through the posts. Furry is not a lifestyle period. You have people who get it, and people who don't. For the ones who don't they don't understand the intended connotations of the word "Lifeystle". but then again most don't.
> 
> ...



Mmm... I agree with you on the most part. That's a real eye-opener :3.


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## Verin Asper (Apr 10, 2009)

...this gotta be the oldest argument amoug furries...other than the fetishes ones


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## ShadowCoon (Apr 10, 2009)

It's just a fandom/hobby for me. Being a furry is about as high on my list of importance as liking anime. 

I personally would never consider it to be a "lifestyle" and think that those who would are on the same level as "otaku." Trying to make a fandom you take part in into a way of life is probably not the best of ideas.

That's just my opinion, though.


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## PaulShepherd (Apr 10, 2009)

I don't really see it as a lifestyle.

But it's a superb hobby for me.


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## Trpdwarf (Apr 10, 2009)

ShadowCoon said:


> It's just a fandom/hobby for me. Being a furry is about as high on my list of importance as liking anime.
> 
> I personally would never consider it to be a "lifestyle" and think that those who would are on the same level as "otaku." Trying to make a fandom you take part in into a way of life is probably not the best of ideas.
> 
> That's just my opinion, though.



That's actually hits it on the head....to consider it a lifestyle is a lot like a person who is an Otaku. Although it's funny you bring it up because the word literally translates into "Reject".

The similarities are there. Furry fandom has a core of Anthro anmal art.
Anime Fandom (if I can call it that for lack of a better phrase) is centered around a style of animation, which is a form of art.
If either side turns what they are into into such as obsession that they try to build a lifestyle, regardless of which side it is, it will not end well.


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## Jack (Apr 10, 2009)

It's a hobby that can be life integrated.
but still just a hobby none the less.


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## Defcat (Apr 10, 2009)

nothing short of a simple hobby. I have too many things in my life that are not just the furry fandom. If I focused to much attention of the fandom everything else that I work so hard at acheiving would all be for nothing.


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## Defiant (Apr 10, 2009)

If you think FUrry is a lifestyle then YOU DO NOT live in the real dam world. Plain and simple.
   Being physically handicapped , being jewish. Those are lifesyles. They WILL affect everyday things you do in life. Being furry is a hobby. YOU choose to be a furry and you only do it when NOT working and surviving in the real world. WHat the hell is wrong with you wanna-be lifestylers? You people ARE delusional!!!!!!!!!!!


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## velan_wolf (Apr 11, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> It's a hobby that's stuck in the 'ON' position all the time. So it's both and neither. :v



I think I would have to agree with you. It's mainly a hobby for me but I can also relate to some of the lifestyle aspects of it as well.


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## Aden (Apr 11, 2009)

Defiant said:


> If you think FUrry is a lifestyle then YOU DO NOT live in the real dam world. Plain and simple.
> Being physically handicapped , being jewish. Those are lifesyles. They WILL affect everyday things you do in life. Being furry is a hobby. YOU choose to be a furry and you only do it when NOT working and surviving in the real world. WHat the hell is wrong with you wanna-be lifestylers? You people ARE delusional!!!!!!!!!!!



Love the sentiment, hhhhate the presentation.


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## bearetic (Apr 11, 2009)

FINE. FIJAGH. 



Aden said:


> FIJAGGGHHHHGHHH *flails*


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## Bellini Tabloid (Apr 11, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> *Otaku*



That word is forbidden, FORBIDDEN I SAY!!!


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 11, 2009)

Ark said:


> That word is forbidden, FORBIDDEN I SAY!!!



Otaku .


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## JakXT (Apr 11, 2009)

.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 11, 2009)

Defiant said:


> If you think FUrry is a lifestyle then YOU DO NOT live in the real dam world. Plain and simple.
> Being physically handicapped , being jewish. Those are lifesyles. They WILL affect everyday things you do in life. Being furry is a hobby. YOU choose to be a furry and you only do it when NOT working and surviving in the real world. WHat the hell is wrong with you wanna-be lifestylers? You people ARE delusional!!!!!!!!!!!



Whoa dude, chill out a bit. Agreed, i don't see how anyone can consider it a lifestyle either.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Apr 11, 2009)

Ark said:


> That word is forbidden, FORBIDDEN I SAY!!!



Fuck you, I'm a pure dragon! (jking)

I overturn your words. Otaku is no longer forbidden to be said! But Furry Lifestyle is...there is no such thing!

Now...Otaku Otaku Otaku Otaku!


----------



## bearetic (Apr 11, 2009)

RandyDarkshade said:


> Whoa dude, chill out a bit. Agreed, i don't see how anyone can consider it a lifestyle either.



When people don't understand what the word "lifestyle" means. Or, when they're a bit obsessed. Or, when they make a living of it, like I'm sure some artists/musicians here do.

Defining myself a bit more in this thread has been good for me. I have college. I have friends. I have family. I have other interests (metal, for one \m/). And there's much much more to me than even these things. I've got a sharper picture of who I am now, and I'm better off for it. Thanks, y'all.

This thread has just been one huge therapy session for ME. You can all stop posting now. j/k.

PS: Listening to Liquid Metal/(temporary) "Mandatory Metallica" on Sirius Radio. Just heard Kirk Hammett from Metallica call Metallica a "lifestyle" for them.


----------



## Dexiro (Apr 11, 2009)

i don't see being furry as something i could just get bored of and forget about so i guess it's more of a lifestyle to me


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 11, 2009)

Dexiro said:


> i don't see being furry as something i could just get bored of and forget about so i guess it's more of a lifestyle to me[/QUOTE
> 
> Thats like saying i don't get bored of watching action movies, so  it is a lifestyle. o.o
> 
> I mean, i am a serious collector of lego (shoot me, i'm a big kid ) I don't get bored of it, but it is still a hobbie.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Apr 11, 2009)

Dexiro said:


> i don't see being furry as something i could just get bored of and forget about so i guess it's more of a lifestyle to me



I don't think I could ever get bored of reading books by my favorite authors but does not make being a fan of Redwall Abbey a lifestyle. :-|


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## SnickersTheCat (Apr 11, 2009)

Well if it becomes an obession, yeah, it can be a way of life. But if it's more of a "weekend" thing well then it's a hobby. Y'know, it's never good to have obessions or anything. But it can easily become that XP. 
So it can go either way.


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## Defiant (Apr 11, 2009)

Aden , so be it if the presentation is off , but the key points were stated.
And I know lifestyler furries. They are total douchebags too. Not that all are , but the lifestyler people are delusional. This is a fact.
  Jak , thank you for agreeing. Randy , I don't like a lot of the furs I know. They have formed my opinion into what it is.


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## Elv02 (Apr 11, 2009)

I had to pick FIJAGDH, simply because I don't consider it a life style. It's definitely a tad more then a hobby, however, to say it is a _lifestyle_ would probably imply that I would do almost everything a real anthropomorphic animal would do. Which is a tad extreme...


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 11, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Fuck you, I'm a pure dragon! (jking)
> 
> I overturn your words. Otaku is no longer forbidden to be said! But Furry Lifestyle is...there is no such thing!
> 
> Now...Otaku Otaku Otaku Otaku!



Furry lifestyle.... I'll stop now .


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## Earthwyrm (Apr 11, 2009)

An obsession doesn't necessarily have to mean its a "way of life".


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## UKtehwhitewolf (Apr 12, 2009)

Uhm. Either/or really.

Furry in of itself is a hobby/interest, or a fashion, depending on if you wear a collar/tail/etc.
BUT some people do make money out of it by drawing or making suits and regularly visit a lot of conventions, making it seem more like a lifestyle.

Difference is, once you start making money from art/suits...surely that just makes you a person who is also into furry and happens to work as an artist?
Therefore making furry a lifestyle is redundant because it's something else whilst furry remains an interest/hobby.


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## Ozymandias_ii (Apr 12, 2009)

Hobby mostly. Sometimes I have off periods where I don't bother with the fandom in the slightest. They're rare however. Normally, I take a casual involvement with the fandom and try to strike a balance; not too hardcore, not too uninvolved.


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## Martin Canine (Sep 28, 2013)

Definitely lifestyle.
I think about it almost nonstop, I got a pawprint logo as my screen saver and love painting it on desks at my school, I have a collar I like to wear, I have a strong doggy-ish behavior towards my friends, and I also have some therian elements, I'd like to be an anthro.
I think my life would be all different without my furriness.
I'm weird. Deal with it.


----------



## Icky (Sep 28, 2013)

Oh damn, I think I remember when this was actually a relevant thread. The acronyms mystified me as much _four fucking years ago_ as they do today.


----------



## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Holy shit look at how old this thread is.

Hey do you think the poll results are legit or trolling?


----------



## Batty Krueger (Sep 28, 2013)

I voted even though this thread is 4 years old.  I feel proud.


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Sep 28, 2013)

For some reason I feel like this thread needs to be studied as archaeological evidence.


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 28, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> For some reason I feel like this thread needs to be studied as archaeological evidence.


I've seen older threads raised from hell.  Shit, one time before I signed up and was a lurker I saw one dogged up from when this forum first started.  Speaking of which you cray mofukas where just like how sofurry is now back in da day.


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## Hewge (Sep 28, 2013)

Icky said:


> Oh damn, I think I remember when this was actually a relevant thread. The acronyms mystified me as much _four fucking years ago_ as they do today.



I know! I saw the guy's avatar and thought "Hey that dude is back!", but then I saw the date and thought "That crazy red dog must have revived the thread." And I was right! Yay!

_I mean... _I only joined in 2013. I don't know anything of the past.


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 28, 2013)

Hewge said:


> I know! I saw the guy's avatar and thought "Hey that dude is back!", but then I saw the date and thought "That crazy red dog must have revived the thread." And I was right! Yay!
> 
> _I mean... _I only joined in 2013. I don't know anything of the past.


Your a silly ghost otter.  SILLY BILLY!


----------



## Hewge (Sep 28, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Your a silly ghost otter.  SILLY BILLY!



Well I couldn't find a shifty eyed otter video! >:[


----------



## M. LeRenard (Sep 28, 2013)

Oy, guys.  Reviving a dead thread is okay (see the rules), but it's not okay to just start spamming bullshit all over it once it's revived.  If you want it to die again, stop posting in it; otherwise, keep it on topic.


----------



## Troj (Sep 28, 2013)

Is lifestyle vs. hobby a meaningful distinction, even?

It's like the ship of Theseus---how much time and thought do you have to devote to a hobby, before it becomes your "lifestyle?" 

What's it mean, really, for an interest or hobby to become a "lifestyle," especially when you're talking about furries.

The vocal "Fandom is Just a God-damned Hobby" movement seems to me to be a defensive reaction to the self-described lifestylers who were just plain obsessive, spergy, and creepy. 

My sense is that a lot of the FIJAGHers are being more than a trifle disingenuous, because a lot of them seem to invest just as much time, money, and interest into being furry as some of the FIAWOLs, when you get down to it. It's just that lifestylin' has developed a bad rap, so people understandably want to distance themselves from it.

And, where FIAWOLers become crazy and creepy is when they fixate on furry at the exclusion of everything else in their lives, and lose sight of the boundary between fantasy and reality. If you're stalking Tress MacNeille because you want to fuck Minerva Mink, or you want to change your name to that of your character, or if you begin to feel actively depressed or anxious due to your "species dysmorphia," or you _completely freak out_ when people call you by your given "human" name, you've definitely crossed over into the realm of unhealthy obsession.

But, I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that furry plays an important and influential role in one's life, and that it does comprise some portion of one's overall "lifestyle." But, you need to recognize and nourish the other areas of your life and facets of yourself, too.


----------



## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

Agreed for the most part, although I don't see what's wrong with going by your character name, especially since a lot of people have niknames.  Personally I only go by Arcto with my furry friends and would feel weird asking others to call me that, but whatever floats your boat.  However if you're freaking out when you are called by your real name I'd say you've probably gone too far.
My personal opinion is that it becomes unhealthy when it causes you not to be able to function in everyday life, such as if you couldn't do your job or be able to have friends or whatever.  People tend to heap scorn on therians and otherkin because of their beliefs, but really I don't see what's wrong with people having beliefs that are outside the norm unless said beliefs impair their ability to live their day-to-day life.


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## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

Troj said:


> What's it mean, really, for an interest or hobby to become a "lifestyle," especially when you're talking about furries.


I think when you feel the need to inject furry into every little thing you do is when it becomes a lifestyle. And more or less annoying for everyone around you.
Kind of like with otaku/hikikomori culture. 



> The vocal "Fandom is Just a God-damned Hobby" movement seems to me to be a defensive reaction to the self-described lifestylers who were just plain obsessive, spergy, and creepy.


It pretty much is.


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## Martin Canine (Sep 28, 2013)

Willow said:


> I think when you feel the need to inject furry into every little thing you do is when it becomes a lifestyle. And more or less annoying for everyone around you.
> Kind of like with otaku/hikikomori culture.
> 
> 
> It pretty much is.



One definition that would fit for me fron Wikifur:
" Lifestylers tend to identify more strongly than typical furries with their furry avatars, and often act out animalistic behaviors of them. For example, a wolf furry lifestyler might go out barefoot to howl at the moon, and an otter lifestyler might spend much of the day swimming."
...
Somehow I know I'll get bashed for this...


----------



## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

Martin Canine said:


> One definition that would fit for me fron Wikifur:
> " Lifestylers tend to identify more strongly than typical furries with their furry avatars, and often act out animalistic behaviors of them. For example, a wolf furry lifestyler might go out barefoot to howl at the moon, and an otter lifestyler might spend much of the day swimming."
> ...
> Somehow I know I'll get bashed for this...


This. This right here. This is exactly what I'm talking about. 

Admittedly one of these things is a little more normal but the other kind of screams mental illness to most people.


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## Schwimmwagen (Sep 28, 2013)

Willow said:


> This. This right here. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
> 
> Admittedly one of these things is a little more normal but the other kind of screams mental illness to most people.



I agree, swimming is stupid.


----------



## Zabrina (Sep 28, 2013)

For me it's simply a hobby that I wish I never had.


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## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

Some people might think it was mentally ill but why should they care what you do in your own home or with friends or whatever?  Of course it's definitely a good idea not to throw your furry lifestyle in people's face and to realize that there's a time and a place to relax and do whatever unusual thing you want to do.  When people don't realize that, that's when you get in trouble.  

BTW I wonder what a teddy bear lifestyler does.  Guess we just like to give hugs, lol.


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Martin Canine said:


> One definition that would fit for me fron Wikifur:
> " Lifestylers tend to identify more strongly than typical furries with their furry avatars, and often act out animalistic behaviors of them. For example, a wolf furry lifestyler* might go out barefoot to howl at the moon*, and an otter lifestyler might spend much of the day swimming."
> ...
> Somehow I know I'll get bashed for this...


 Around here people would think you're a gang member or mentally ill.





arctobear said:


> Some people might think it was mentally ill but why should they care what you do in your own home or with friends or whatever?  Of course it's definitely a good idea not to throw your furry lifestyle in people's face and to realize that there's a time and a place to relax and do whatever unusual thing you want to do.  When people don't realize that, that's when you get in trouble.


 If you're making all that noise at night I'm calling the cops.


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## Armaetus (Sep 28, 2013)

Why the hell was this bumped up from the forum catacombs?


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## Fallowfox (Sep 28, 2013)

Well, I'm just a furry fetishist. You hobbyist people are weird and sad. :v


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## Martin Canine (Sep 28, 2013)

Teal said:


> Around here people would think you're a gang member or mentally ill.



Around here, teenagers do crazier things


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Glaice said:


> Why the hell was this bumped up from the forum catacombs?


 Because some people wish they where an animal or something.




Martin Canine said:


> Around here, teenagers do crazier things


And around here they'd get the cops called on them.

And most of them are gang members.


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## Kalmor (Sep 28, 2013)

Glaice said:


> Why the hell was this bumped up from the forum catacombs?



Ahem:



M. LeRenard said:


> Oy, guys. Reviving a dead thread is okay (see the rules), but it's not okay to just start spamming bullshit all over it once it's revived. If you want it to die again, stop posting in it; otherwise, keep it on topic.


----------



## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

Lol, I'd never howl at the moon unless I was with my buddy and we were being goofy, but probably we'd just play instruments instead.


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## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

Zabrina said:


> For me it's simply a hobby that I wish I never had.


Hotel California. 
Ya stuck.


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## Armaetus (Sep 28, 2013)

It's a bloody hobby for me, period.


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## Martin Canine (Sep 28, 2013)

I also wouldn't howl at the moon.
It's night. I'd want to sleep.


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Wither said:


> Hotel California.
> Ya stuck.


 _Once you're in the fandom you can never leave..._

I changed my avatar because of this thread.


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## RatCoffee (Sep 28, 2013)

Just a hobby for me. When I first got into furry, I acted like your typical 13 year old ~*~*~furreh 4 life :3 ~*~*~ person, but thankfully I grew out of it.


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## Iudicium_86 (Sep 28, 2013)

Just going to copypasta something I recently posted in response to another similiar thread.

"Fandom and hobby aren't exactly 1-to-1 synonyms. In normal usage, hobby is often a singular activity and far less a presence in one's life, like puzzles or knitting. While fandom is almost closer to a sub-culture with mass gatherings and 'icons' within the group.

To link fandom and hobby in such a mutual way is basically telling else how important a thing is in their lives. Would you really say Star Trek to a Trekkie is the same level of importance as a jigsaw puzzle to the random joe?"

as for my own vote, I said lifestyle. It's been a part of me for about 10 solid years now and still going, and is a thing I identify with and take part in by some degree daily, whether it be drawing something for myself, completing a commission, discussing a new commission, uploading, browsing, or posting on a relevant forum. In my life and schedule, _hobbies_ include reading, shopping, sometimes drinking, video games, and other things that I almost have to find the time for and aren't every day.


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## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

I chose lifestyle because fuck you. 
My hobby _is_ my life. 

That's what you guys sound like. It's not normal.


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Iudicium_86 said:


> as for my own vote, I said lifestyle. It's been a part of me for about 10 solid years now and still going, and is a thing I identify with and take part in by some degree daily, whether it be drawing something for myself, completing a commission, discussing a new commission, uploading, browsing, or posting on a relevant forum. In my life and schedule, _hobbies_ include reading, shopping, sometimes drinking, video games, and other things that I almost have to find the time for and aren't every day.


 Call it a lifestyle if you want but doing commissions is just business.


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## Fallowfox (Sep 28, 2013)

Teal said:


> Call it a lifestyle if you want but doing commissions is just business.



I'm a vegetarian, but you know, it's just diet.


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I'm a vegetarian, but you know, it's just diet.


 What?
Are you comparing doing art for money to eating certain things?
Why?


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## Fallowfox (Sep 28, 2013)

Teal said:


> What?
> Are you comparing doing art for money to eating certain things?
> Why?



Because your comment was silly. Iduicium wasn't claiming that everyone else who gets money drawing furries is a lifestyler. You've no grounds to imply that his activities are actually just business, whatever he might call them. I think he gets to decide what they are for himself.


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Because your comment was silly. Iduicium wasn't claiming that everyone else who gets money drawing furries is a lifestyler. You've no grounds to imply that his activities are actually just business, whatever he might call them. I think he gets to decide what they are for himself.


 A huge chunk of his post is about commissions. Why would that make him "more" of a lifestyler?


----------



## Fallowfox (Sep 28, 2013)

Teal said:


> A huge chunk of his post is about commissions. Why would that make him "more" of a lifestyler?



Was he implying that it means anybody else involved in commissioning is automatically a lifestyler? No, so don't get all defensive about it. 

This is what I hate about the 'whatever you say, it's a hobby' people. They think everything is about them, and that other furries being lifestylers or fetishists or whatever automatically means that they are guilty by association. 

How about it's _not _your job to be the fucking PR for all furries?


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## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

He can call it whatever he likes. 
It doesn't make it necessarily true for everyone else. 

But there is truth behind FF's post. 
It is what you goddamn make it for yourself.


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## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Because your comment was silly. Iduicium wasn't claiming that everyone else who gets money drawing furries is a lifestyler. You've no grounds to imply that his activities are actually just business, whatever he might call them. I think he gets to decide what they are for himself.


Well I mean, if you do something for profit most would consider that a business in some regard. Even if Iudicium adds lifestyler to it. In the grand scheme of things, most would just consider commissioning a business.

Also you're the one who's getting pretty defensive here.


----------



## Fallowfox (Sep 28, 2013)

Willow said:


> Well I mean, if you do something for profit most would consider that a business in some regard. Even if Iudicium adds lifestyler to it. In the grand scheme of things, most would just consider commissioning a business.




I'm sure most would. But it's everyone's personal prerogative to consider their profession a lifestyle too. For example being a musician or a dancer might be just business to many, but some of them might feel that it is a lifestyle of performance.


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## Iudicium_86 (Sep 28, 2013)

The business aspect of the fandom came long after accepting it a lifestyle to myself. It was just an added bonus, which is now growing and how I support my actual hobbies that don't take up a chunk of my daily life (reading, shopping, games). 

My main point I was always trying to make is a repeat of what others have already brought up. Making it what you make for yourself. Too often I see people not just defining it as a hobby to them, which is totally fine, but also trying to define it as just a hobby _for other people too._


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## Kitsune Cross (Sep 28, 2013)

Wither said:


> I chose lifestyle because fuck you.
> My hobby _is_ my life.
> 
> That's what you guys sound like. It's not normal.



Anyone here is normal, some are just weirder


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## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> Anyone here is normal, some are just weirder


That didn't really make sense but I get what you're trying to say. 

Normal by furry standards.


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## Dire Newt (Sep 28, 2013)

Furry. Lifestyle? Now that's just silly.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 28, 2013)

Well, I should be cleaning the kitchen now to attempt to resolve a  significant ant problem, but I'll go with 'the next shiny object'  instead. I also have some excellent thoughts on the matter.

1.)  When I hear 'lifestyler', I typically think of 'spiritual' furries, also  known as therians. However, I don't normally use the term to describe  furrydom. I have labelled it a subculture. Furrydom to me is a  subculture. Therefore, when someone asks about my tail, I explain to  them it is a cultural expression as well as a fashion accessory.  'Lifestyle' is just too subjective to me and is often used pejoratively,  anyway.

2.) I chose 'lifestyler', but I feel I'm a bit below  that. I consider furrydom a critical support system for me. I call my  hands paws in front of everyone, and I have some animalistic mannerisms,  such as a proneness to growl when agitated or frustrated and having an  affinity for washing dishes (I'm a 'coon). Everyone knows upon sight  that I at the very least really like raccoons. However, I also don't  believe my soul is procyonine (it might be: it's something I can't  really determine either way) and don't have an immense spiritual bond  with animals.

Nevertheless, I become defensive when I see  lifestylers/therians/whatever come under attack. Some are indeed  socially incompetent and others take the zoophilia thing too far, but I  think it's rather unjustified to insult someone or call them deranged  simply for barking or identifying with a totem animal. And, of course,  I'm very openly and proudly a furry, so it's also somewhat personal with  me. Which, leads me to...

3.) This is not the most supportive  environment for lifestylers/whatever. It's unfortunate, but FAF has a  history of critics and malcontents dominating things. I guess you could  call this a stronghold of the 'conservative' furries or something. I  would suggest to the hyped-up teenage canine lifestyler that you look  for support elsewhere. InkBunny has a far less troublesome userbase, and  I'm sure there are lifestyler and lifestyler-friendly forums out there.  If you still decide to fly the colors openly here, expect a lot of flak  and ridicule.

4.) So, to close, I would say, furrydom is a very,  very broad subculture. It's akin to Christianity in a sense. Everyone  from the Southern Baptists to the Evangelical Lutherans are members of  Christianity. And, in furrydom, we have everyone from those who  occasionally pop in to fap to porn and RP, all the way to tail-wearers  who howl at the moon. I forget who said it, but, he said basically,  "Furry is what you make of it." That definition I agree with.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> 1.)  *When I hear 'lifestyler', I typically think of 'spiritual' furries, also  known as therians. *However, I don't normally use the term to describe  furrydom. I have labelled it a subculture. Furrydom to me is a  subculture. Therefore, when someone asks about my tail, I explain to  them it is a cultural expression as well as a fashion accessory.  'Lifestyle' is just too subjective to me and is often used pejoratively,  anyway.



No.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 28, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> No.



I'm sorry my definition of 'lifestyler' displeases you. Would you care to give your own definition, as opposed to blurting out two-letter rejections?


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> I'm sorry my definition of 'lifestyler' displeases you. Would you care to give your own definition, as opposed to blurting out two-letter rejections?



As a person who has friends involved in the therian community and also a Therian, your definition is so far south that it hit the center portion of Antarctica. Calling a therian a spiritual furry is like calling a Mexican an Arab because they live in a desert-like region and have the same skincolor. The two communities are very different and not a like. However, you do get some Therians in the furry community for various reasons, but Therians do despise furries that think the two subcultures are synonymous.

If you didn't understand it, that's fine. It's strange to an outsider and if you said you didn't know, it can be explained. But being condescending to the point of glib ignorance when you are wrong is not.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> I'm sorry my definition of 'lifestyler' displeases you. Would you care to give your own definition, as opposed to blurting out two-letter rejections?


A lifestyler is someone like me.  My life revolves around the fandom.  All my friends are furries and furry friendly.  I live with 2 other furs, I goto as many cons as possible and fursuit my ass off(not that having a fursuit makes you a lifestyler). I play video games with other furries, I network with other furries.  Even one of my coworkers is a furry.  

Thats a basic example of a lifestyler.


----------



## Aulendra (Sep 29, 2013)

It also inhabits a nebulous middle ground to me, as a hobby but more serious one than my others. I only do it online via browsing art sites, rping, or go to a con once every couple of years if a local one springs up. However the fandom's had a huge influence on my personal art, writing, dreams and imagination. 

Does this mean I murr and purr and wear suits and shove my furriness in people's face? No. Only my best friend and boyfriend have any idea, in fact. I don't wear shit or talk about it IRL at all unless in the company of other known furs. So yes it's a hobby, but one on a higher plane to me than something like playing card games.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> As a person who has friends involved in the therian community and also a Therian, your definition is so far south that it hit the center portion of Antarctica. Calling a therian a spiritual furry is like calling a Mexican an Arab because they live in a desert-like region and have the same skincolor. The two communities are very different and not a like. However, you do get some Therians in the furry community for various reasons, but Therians do despise furries that think the two subcultures are synonymous.
> 
> If you didn't understand it, that's fine. It's strange to an outsider. But being condescending to the point of glib ignorance when you are wrong is not.



Ahh, now, if you had explained this right away, we would have saved time and neither of us would have felt insulted. 

As for the explanation... I do apologize for any errors or miscommunications I have made. I do not have any Therian/whatever friends and all I had to go on was memories of a few things I read about Therians and 'lifestylers'. I haven't done all that much research, and didn't feel the need to. Apparently that decision was a significant fuckup.

*grimaces and rubs his muzzle* Could you explain your subculture/community to me and the conflict it has with furrydom, now that we're on the matter and I'm having to correct my mistake? Now I'm very curious and wish to understand better. I was under the impression Therians believe they are in some way an animal, which prompted me to describe them as 'spiritual'. The FAQ I just read to prevent me from inserting my hindpaw into my muzzle again confirms that. I was also under the impression Therians were usually into the furry fandom and would be very compatible with it, but apparently that impression is mistaken.



Teal said:


> That is so wrong I wanna hurt you.



Stand in line. *points towards the long queue*



> I have no words.



You're in awe of my greatness. Or my supreme arrogance.



> They'll think the person has some sort of mental disorder.  Randomly barking is not something you just do in public (unless you're  at a furry convention or 5 years old).



So? If I was that concerned about the judgements of fools I would have killed myself long ago.



> It's not the lifestylers that bother us, it's those that post  nothing but furry puns and whine about fursecution when the world  doesn't accept their "furriness", act like everything has to be furry  and that the fandom is some sacred thing.-_-



That would anger me as well, honestly. I find people like that creepy and deterring.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 29, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Ahh, now, if you had explained this right away, we would have saved time and neither of us would have felt insulted.
> 
> As for the explanation... I do apologize for any errors or miscommunications I have made. I do not have any Therian/whatever friends and all I had to go on was memories of a few things I read about Therians and 'lifestylers'. I haven't done all that much research, and didn't feel the need to. Apparently that decision was a significant fuckup.
> 
> *grimaces and rubs his muzzle* Could you explain your subculture/community to me and the conflict it has with furrydom, now that we're on the matter and I'm having to correct my mistake? Now I'm very curious and wish to understand better. I was under the impression Therians believe they are in some way an animal, which prompted me to describe them as 'spiritual'. The FAQ I just read to prevent me from inserting my hindpaw into my muzzle again confirms that. I was also under the impression Therians were usually into the furry fandom and would be very compatible with it, but apparently that impression is mistaken.




Therianthropy started out from the alt.horror.werewolves community in the early to mid-nighties as part of the horror genre before it split off to more or less spiritual lycanthropy and a spiritual connection to animals, not "furry" which is a subculture dedicated to animal headed people in cartoons. The ones who believe that there are an animal trapped in a human body stemmed from the otherkin community.

Those that have a totemic belief are either the "White guilt" folks that have little to no understanding of totems aside from the magical "injun myth", or "pagan".


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 29, 2013)

Please keep it civil or I am going to have to go through and nuke some posts.


----------



## Aetius (Sep 29, 2013)

Are we going to send the lifestylers to camps yet or what? :v 

#Hobbyistmasterace


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Sep 29, 2013)

I fully support the use of chemical weapons against lifestyles


----------



## Martin Canine (Sep 29, 2013)

So... the difference between Therians and furry lifestylers:
http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Therian#Therian_and_furry_lifestylers


----------



## Neon Poi (Sep 29, 2013)

Being furry is just a hobby for me. 

Being myself is my way of life.


----------



## Bonobosoph (Sep 29, 2013)

Eh just another type of art that I like to observe. I'm not really active but I imagined the animals I'd like to see depicted and thought "why the heck not!". 
I don't yet have much confidence in my own drawing skills to make anything of my imagined characters, so I use the main site to talent scout hoping to get a commission or request done. Then I'll use that commission as a spring board to dive into the hobby properly.

So right now it's neither.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Sep 29, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> I fully support the use of chemical weapons against lifestyles


You want to use mustard gas on lifestyles?  Wat


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

d.batty said:


> A lifestyler is someone like me.  My life  revolves around the fandom.  All my friends are furries and furry  friendly.  I live with 2 other furs, I goto as many cons as possible and  fursuit my ass off(not that having a fursuit makes you a lifestyler). I  play video games with other furries, I network with other furries.   Even one of my coworkers is a furry.
> 
> Thats a basic example of a lifestyler.



My ex-boyfriend  stated last night I am indeed a lifestyler and not somewhere in the  middle, and you're saying basically the same thing. Yay, I'm a  lifestyler! *waves the colors around provocatively* I never expected to  win any popularity contests in FAF, anyway.



Ozriel said:


> Therianthropy started out from the  alt.horror.werewolves community in the early to mid-nighties as part of  the horror genre before it split off to more or less spiritual  lycanthropy and a spiritual connection to animals, not "furry" which is a  subculture dedicated to animal headed people in cartoons. The ones who  believe that there are an animal trapped in a human body stemmed from  the otherkin community.
> 
> Those that have a totemic belief are either the "White guilt" folks that  have little to no understanding of totems aside from the magical "injun  myth", or "pagan".



1.) I was an adult when those things were still being used. I feel like a greymuzzle. *whines*

2.) I had mistakenly assumed Therians were a type of furry generally, because the two cultures have an affinity for animals in common. It was inconceivable to me many Therians would not be furry. Aside from the greater identification with animals Therians have, it seems to me furrydom would be a good fit for them. Which leads to...

3.) I have read of there being some level of animosity towards furries by Therians. Could you explain why this is the case? Also, is it considered disrespectful to not capitalize 'Therian'? 

4.) I was under the impression that 'otherkin' are Therians, only their animal is mythical as opposed to an Earth-born one. 

5.) I did associate mentally 'totem animals' very heavily with Native American spirituality. But, seeing as I had done no study of the matter, I had no reason to think otherwise. 

6.) *appears deep in thought and rubs his snout* Do you think there is any real possibility I am a Therian? While I do not believe or have a strong suspicion that my soul is procyonine and do not get on all fours or climb trees, I have a heightened affinity for raccoons. I growl when agitated, I am the one who prefers to wash all the dishes and silverware, I am not a picky eater, and I have some other mannerisms and traits that are raccoon-like. I don't know if that is enough by Therian standards or if I'm better off identifying as a furry lifestyler. 

Of course, you've made your hatred of my kind clear in other posts of yours in this thread (hopefully you've changed your views), so I guess if I received a negative reaction to this I shouldn't be upset.



Teal said:


> So you're gonna have that attitude.
> 
> So people are gonna completely accept a random stranger that starts barking at them as acceptable?
> Are you high or something?
> ...



1.) I am actually an extraordinarily arrogant person. However, I am  also not above admitting when I was in error, as I demonstrated with  Ozriel. 

2.) Barking right away at people? Well, that would cause  understandable concern. I was more thinking of mannerisms that were  less startling, like using furry jargon and growling when angry and  howling at the moon with other furries. But, if someone finds fault with  my terminology or raccoonish behaviors, fuck them. They are inferior  people who I brush aside. I don't fret over their disapproval unless  they have the ability and desire to harm me.

3.) Sure seems like it, coming out as a cub enthusiast and a lifestyler on FAF. However, I would say no. 

As for the thing that prompted that reply from you, I will remind you I just had gotten done dispelling the 'fursecution' myth and explained that that usually only happens when someone's creepy and intrusive about it. So, no, I'm not trolling my own kind, no.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 29, 2013)

I feel like a jerk because of how the second choice is worded, but I view it as a hobby. For. My. Self. I'm not going to sit here and tell people that they can't treat furry as a lifestyle. What's the harm if they aren't being oversensitive about it?


----------



## Bonobosoph (Sep 29, 2013)

Teehee just noticed someone compared furries to christianity, I'm as richard dawkins as you can get but I know christianty is a much bigger deal and better comparisons could be made.
It tickled me.

Anyway carry on your little discussion...


----------



## Willow (Sep 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I feel like a jerk because of how the second choice is worded, but I view it as a hobby. For. My. Self. I'm not going to sit here and tell people that they can't treat furry as a lifestyle. What's the harm if they aren't being oversensitive about it?


I don't think it's so much people have a problem with lifestylers that are just really into the fandom like d.batty. It's the people who do the whole furry pride thing and make it seem like it's some life altering decision. Because then you're marginalizing actual identities and lifestyles that tend to be life changing in a way. 

And then you have those guys who like to run around wearing animal tails and barking at people.


----------



## Fallowfox (Sep 29, 2013)

Willow said:


> I don't think it's so much people have a problem with lifestylers that are just really into the fandom like d.batty. It's the people who do the whole furry pride thing and make it seem like it's some life altering decision. Because then you're marginalizing actual identities and lifestyles that tend to be life changing in a way.
> 
> And then you have those guys who like to run around wearing animal tails and barking at people.



Being weirdos is, frankly, their prerogative. They marginalise gay pride as much as tinfoil hat wearing crop circle enthusiasts marginalise the hubble telescope.


----------



## Willow (Sep 29, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Being weirdos is, frankly, their prerogative. They marginalise gay pride as much as tinfoil hat wearing crop circle enthusiasts marginalise the hubble telescope.


I dunno, man. When you go around acting like you didn't choose to be a furry, or you didn't choose to be attracted to six foot dog men, yeah. Not to mention equating the whole thing to being gay or whatever you. It kind of makes queer identities in general look like some sort of joke to a lot of people. So it's not really comparable to whatever analogy that was.


----------



## Fallowfox (Sep 29, 2013)

Willow said:


> I dunno, man. When you go around acting like you didn't choose to be a furry, or you didn't choose to be attracted to six foot dog men, yeah. Not to mention equating the whole thing to being gay or whatever you. It kind of makes queer identities in general look like some sort of joke to a lot of people. So it's not really comparable to whatever analogy that was.



Most in my country have not even _herd_ of furries, let alone presume that gay rights is undermined by occasional furry lifestylers who happen to also be weirdos. 

Mountain out of a mole hile.


----------



## Alexxx-Returns (Sep 29, 2013)

Hobby hobby hobby.

This involvement with the fandom only really manifests itself as a preference to drawing animal people more than anything else - and indulging in the craft of fursuit making. And maybe paying a little more attention to a TV show/movie/game if there is an anthro in there.

Not bothered by lifestylers. Unless they're hurting anyone, why shouldn't they be allowed to do what makes them happy?


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Willow said:


> I don't think it's so much people have a problem with lifestylers that are just really into the fandom like d.batty. It's the people who do the whole furry pride thing and make it seem like it's some life altering decision. Because then you're marginalizing actual identities and lifestyles that tend to be life changing in a way.
> 
> And then you have those guys who like to run around wearing animal tails and barking at people.



Think I'll add some more commentary while I'm enjoying dinner (I actually did get to the kitchen cleaning chore I put off so long- I blame FAF completely). 

1.) I am not a 'proud' bisexual. I am not because that is merely an orientation. I was blessed to have been born that way, but it by itself means nothing. I *am*, however, a proud furry. I could be described as a 'furry supremacist', actually. Furrydom is more than a collection of people who like anthros and animals. It's a whole subculture. It is relaxed and tolerant and creative (FAF is harsher than usual, so don't think the inevitable counterfire is evidence I'm full of crap). It IS pretty much an LGBT culture. It's better than average society. Furrydom is, in generally, superior to at least Southern American society morally, intellectually, and aesthetically. I far more readily identify with the furry subculture than average people and society.

Now, that is not to say I am incapable of hating other furries, or I believe this is some magical place where people shit rainbows and everyone's at peace with each other. However, I never felt comfortable trying to befriend people not in this or another subculture I'm a part of (it would simply distract people if I mentioned that one). 

2.) It actually IS a life-altering decision/discovery for people. It certainly was for me when I was 17. Hell, some, especially cubs, have had to fret over being identified as a furry because their parents are either misinformed or philosophically retarded (that's gotten a lot better now since the hysteria about LGBT people is dying out). Who are you to tell me my discovery of the fandom was any less significant than a homo/bisexual or transgendered person's discovery of forces that are pro-LGBT? Of course, for a 'hobbyist', it likely wouldn't be such a massive event. However, for an autistic person who has an affinity for animals and anthros and a hatred of inferior societies, that would be earth-moving. 

3.) Again, I would like to think I am a good representative of furrydom. Sure, I look strange and also effeminate, but my behaviors and mannerisms and appearance are benign. Now, if you pointed to a person who gets on all fours or starts randomly talking to people about dogs and asked what I thought, I would concur with you and state that is not benign and is embarrassing.


----------



## Willow (Sep 29, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Who are you to tell me my discovery of the fandom was any less significant than a homo/bisexual or transgendered person's discovery of forces that are pro-LGBT? Of course, for a 'hobbyist', it likely wouldn't be such a massive event. However, for an autistic person who has an affinity for animals and anthros and a hatred of inferior societies, that would be earth-moving.


I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not because while I didn't read your entire reply, I can only assume the rest can surmount to audible farts.

To humor you though, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Lifestyler or hobbyist is moot here. I take issue however, with people who act like being a furry is so hard and all that nonsense.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Teal said:


> Probably because they often get lumped together with the "FURRY FOR LIFE GONNA TELL EVERYBODY!!!!1" people.
> 
> Doing it with friends is different than with strangers.
> 
> So people are inferior if they have a problem with someone acting like they may have a mental problem. That's cute.



1.)  I don't see the problem with that kind of thing in the first place,  honestly. If you mean they get lumped in with the socially incompetent  furry lifestylers and that's what they resent, that's another matter.

2.)  True, but I'm not going to absolutely conform to societal standards  100% of the time. Until I start running around on all fours or raiding  people's trash, people don't have justification for antipathy.

3.)  Yeah, I guess. Enlightened people that I would seek interaction with  would not recoil from most of what I say or do. Of course, I DO keep  some things to myself and within furry venues (announcing I get off on  13-year-old minkbois  is going to shock and confuse a lot of people, for  example, so I don't generally state that).



Willow said:


> I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not because while I didn't read your entire reply, I can only assume the rest can surmount to audible farts.
> 
> To humor you though, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Lifestyler or hobbyist is moot here. I take issue however, with people who act like being a furry is so hard and all that nonsense.



Well, that's nice. I will state for the record that your opinions have a minimal level of importance to me as well, so we're even. 

Also, you did have the courtesy to state you didn't read my posts thoroughly. I had covered what you just said in another thread (which you were also keeping up with). I had made a long, detailed post explaining why the cry of fursecution is bullshit. http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/331955-Stop-the-furry-wars!?p=3563850&viewfull=1#post3563850 

Any other objections you want me to refute?


----------



## Willow (Sep 29, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Well, that's nice. I will state for the record that your opinions have a minimal level of importance to me as well, so we're even.
> 
> Also, you did have the courtesy to state you didn't read my posts thoroughly. I had covered what you just said in another thread (which you were also keeping up with). I had made a long, detailed post explaining why the cry of fursecution is bullshit. http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/331955-Stop-the-furry-wars!?p=3563850&viewfull=1#post3563850
> 
> Any other objections you want me to refute?


So then you would agree that putting furry on the same level as LGBT is also bullshit?


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Teal said:


> They shove it down others throats.
> 
> Saying "enlightened" makes it seem like furry is a cult.
> 
> ...



1.) Define that. If you would define me going around in furry regalia 100% of the time and describing my hands as 'paws' as such, I would disagree with your definition. My definition would be people discussing the fandom all the time with non-furries, or going apeshit when one or two people don't seem enthused about their 'lifestyle'. 

While people see I am indeed a member of this subculture (and can probably also tell I'm not 100% heterosexual), I generally have conversations about other matters. If it is about furrydom, it is generally because I was asked first.

2.) I should make a furry cult. *giggles moronically at his own retarded ideas*

3.) Yes, there are reasons. A couple. First, it's a dramatic example, something I can point to and say, "Like THAT for example! Some things one should not be open IRL about!". Second, it serves to communicate to people I am self-confident, logical, and aware of at least minimal social norms and limitations outside of furrydom. I have opened myself up to trolling knowingly, while also communicating to people that I am prudent.

If you mean generally and outside just this thread, again, it communicates a sense of confidence and self-assuredness. I'll get trolled, and it doesn't affect me. I don't need a lot of 'asspats' to be sure of myself. It also has the purpose of showing to people like me that at least one other person here is not against them. And, finally, well, it amuses me.

4.) No. It's because you're being casually insulting and dimwitted, so I was returning the favor.

5.) I see few furries crying discrimination like that.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Willow said:


> So then you would agree that putting furry on the same level as LGBT is also bullshit?



As  far as general hardships and civil rights struggles? Yes, I would. It  was never illegal to pretend to be a teenage raccoon or look at porn or  wear tails and such. Not in America, anyway. However, that does not mean  someone's discovery and enjoyment of furrydom would be insignificant.  That's what I was talking about- the significance of the discovery and  the culture. I was never suggesting we faced the same kind of  persecution and legal disenfranchisement that LGBT people have and still  do.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Teal said:


> The people who insist everything must be furry and get mad when others don't see it that way.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> ...



1.) That's retarded. Who would demand everyone act furry around them? Sure, I'd love to be in a 'furry' society, but I'm not going to enforce that and make non-furries wear ears and whatever. There are furries who are that bad?

2.) Yay, someone agrees I'm not a complete embarrassment to furrydom!

3.) Stop telling me not to do things. It makes me want to do them even more. *trills evilly*

4.) There are several reasons for my judgement, but I need to get back to my chores soon and can't be bothered to state and source them all.


----------



## Kalmor (Sep 29, 2013)

3. RP isn't allowed here.


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## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

Raptros said:


> 3. RP isn't allowed here.



See, you're a staff member, so I have to assume you're correct about  that. It's a stupidly restrictive rule, but, whatever. So, you I'll  listen to. 




Teal said:


> A kid whined that he wasn't  allowed to wear ears+tail to a school with a dresscode and goes on to  rant about fursecution.
> Another wished that something would _kill off _all non-furries.
> 
> It's annoying and childish. And role playing is not allowed on FAF.



1.) I would be pissed about the first one as well. However, those  are two people. That's not worth even contemplating. It would be like me  saying, "Oh, conservative Christians are predisposed to violence,  because this one guy killed an abortion doctor." Show me a trend and I  may be more swayed.

2.) Again, your impressions are of minimal  importance to me. Also, I suggest you are given a title before ordering people around.


----------



## Conker (Sep 29, 2013)

Skimmed the last couple of pages. This got silly.

As to the poll, people make what they want to out of the fandom. I think it SHOULD be a hobby because taking your hobbies and making them lifestyles is daft and obsession is unhealthy, but some people have done so as indicated by the thread and poll. 

I don't even really treat it as a hobby; I just find this forum entertaining.


----------



## benignBiotic (Sep 30, 2013)

This is an ooooold thread. 

I am a furry hobbyist. It's a big hobby, like most of my interests revolve around it, but it's still just a hobby. If you took furry out of my life I'd still have a lot going on.



			
				Teal said:
			
		

> We usually get a thread of that type one a week or so.


Yeah we do -_-


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 30, 2013)

Kantress said:


> 2.) Again, your impressions are of minimal  importance to me. Also, I suggest you are given a title before ordering people around.




Until the caffeinated and twichy Death knight comes in and threatens to give your account a beheading with the *[Blackblade, Account Executioner]*. Raptros already asked you to stop, and if you refuse to adhere to his request, you will go onto the chopping block.


Even if a user denotes the rules to you, 98.9999999999% they are correct. If you are unsure of them, either read the rules or ask a mod for a second opinion. Reading the rules gets you more points.


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## Hinalle K. (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm more like an IAAA



I abhor asinine acronyms


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## Kantress (Sep 30, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Until the caffeinated and twichy Death knight comes in and threatens to give your account a beheading with the *[Blackblade, Account Executioner]*. Raptros already asked you to stop, and if you refuse to adhere to his request, you will go onto the chopping block.
> 
> 
> Even if a user denotes the rules to you, 98.9999999999% they are correct. If you are unsure of them, either read the rules or ask a mod for a second opinion. Reading the rules gets you more points.



Not sure why this is being told to me. I ceased the offending behavior immediately upon Raptros's command. Also, I have read the rules, and I remember there being a ban on backseat modding. I also see no prohibition against what is in this post of mine right now.

Anyway, it's clear to me this thread has outlived its usefulness. If someone got something out of my observations and commentary, great. If not, well, it's unfortunate. Having endless and pointless debates with those hostile to me is a luxury I cannot afford right now. It's also unfortunate you would not give more of your thoughts on the topic of Therianism and their relations with furrydom, but your antipathy towards me was made clear before I even opened my muzzle, so it was not a surprise. I will research that more on my own after chores are done.

If I see any posts that impress me I may chime in again, but for now this will be my last reply on this thread. Also, I see someone sigged my quote. Yay, more name recognition!


----------



## benignBiotic (Oct 1, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Not sure why this is being told to me. I ceased the offending behavior immediately upon Raptros's command. Also, I have read the rules, and I remember there being a ban on backseat modding. I also see no prohibition against what is in this post of mine right now.


There is a difference between making someone aware that roleplay is not allowed on FAF and 'backseat modding.'



			
				Kantress said:
			
		

> Also, I see someone sigged my  quote. Yay, more name recognition!


----------



## Calemeyr (Oct 3, 2013)

Furry cannot be a lifestyle for me because I already have a lifestyle of physics textbooks and GREs that gets in the way.


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## Batty Krueger (Oct 3, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> Furry cannot be a lifestyle for me because I already have a lifestyle of physics textbooks and GREs that gets in the way.


When your done with colladge gim me kal


----------



## horndawg (Oct 4, 2013)

I see there's no option for "It's just a sex thing/I like to learn about furries to further understand my psychosexuality."


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Oct 4, 2013)

Anyone who builds their life around a fandom is a complete loser. Unless Furry is a religion...


----------



## Kitsune Cross (Oct 4, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> Anyone who builds their life around a fandom is a complete loser. Unless Furry is a religion...



A furry religion would be funny as fuck, all hail the weird porn god


----------



## Troj (Oct 4, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> A furry religion would be funny as fuck, all hail the weird porn god



Hey, at least it's a deity that actually delivers something people enjoy. Other gods would do well to follow that kind of example.


----------



## Kitsune Cross (Oct 4, 2013)

Troj said:


> Hey, at least it's a deity that actually delivers something people enjoy. Other gods would do well to follow that kind of example.



The furry god is better than the catholics one, it has a lot more genitals


----------



## Attaman (Oct 5, 2013)

Kantress said:


> I could be described as a 'furry supremacist', actually.


 Protip: If you can ever describe your involvement in a fandom as "supremacist", you need to take a break from that fandom as your interest is dangerously high_._



Kantress said:


> Furrydom is more than a collection of people who like anthros and animals.


 No, it really isn't.



Kantress said:


> It is relaxed and tolerant and creative


 No, it is not, and let me show the ways~

Furry is not relaxed. Look at the drama that will spark if someone disagrees with a favored artist. Or if a person agrees to speak on a television show / documentary / whatever about the fandom. Look at the outright vilification some websites and users have received that should not exist in a community that is exceptionally relaxed and leisurely about things. If the fandom were relaxed it would not have the belief that it is unjustly persecuted (let alone when the fandom is treated nigh-infinitely better than those such as D&D, Rock n' Roll, Comics, and so-on were at their peak of distrust) with people being outright paranoid about speaking with non-fandom members.

Furry is not tolerant. If you are trying to toot your horn about how you are so totally more tolerant than other people, you are already showing some worrying signs. Combine this with "furry supremacist", the proportion of furries who cannot properly trust or socialize with someone who is not of the fandom (which, it should be noted, is much higher in the lifestyler demographic than the hobbyist demographic), the vitriol that will be spat towards Furries who are seen as "betraying" the fandom (which in some cases is merely going so far as to _not blatantly lie to a non-fandom member_ or _turning someone in for illegal activity _because they find the law more important than fandom politics), calling the fandom especially tolerant is a hilarious example of whitewashing and / or disconnection from reality.

The fandom is not, in the way you're attempting to portray it (as in especially / to a degree higher than other communities) creative. The Furry fandom does offer a fairly great variety of art, yes. But so too does the _Star Wars_ fandom. And the _One-Punch Man_ fandom. And the _Megaman_ fandom. And...

People create art. It is, simply, a fact of life. And if you are going to stay on an artistic website, you are going to see more art than if you don't. Nothing I have seen points in any way towards Furry artists (as there is a vast swathe of FA, Inkbunny, SF, and so-on who have accounts only for viewing purposes, not creation) being more or less creative than other fandoms (or even fandom-disassociated) artists. To claim them as exceptionally artistic is another attempt to basically tout the fandom's horn at best and at worst shows another disconnection from reality and obsessive interest in the fandom.



Kantress said:


> It IS pretty much an LGBT culture.


 If you mean this insofar as tolerating them, then yes. The fandom does have a relatively high proportion of people who fall in the LGBT demographic, and since very few people (fandom or not) hate themselves it tends to work favorably for the fandom not looking down negatively on other LGBT.

If you mean this insofar as equating one's "Furriness" as comparable to things like sexual orientation, reassignment, and so-on? You are _insane_, no less so to me than if you tried to equate being a fan of _Tomb Raider_ with being a way of life.



Kantress said:


> It's better than average society.


 Average society keeps people fed and also has to deal with the politics involved keeping nearly seven billion people alive, with resources to use, etcetera. You cannot properly equate a fandom with society because _they are two entirely different things_, the first of which _is entirely reliant on a pre-existing second_. 



Kantress said:


> Furrydom is, in generally, superior to at least Southern American society morally, intellectually, and aesthetically.


 Your tolerance is showing. :V



Kantress said:


> I far more readily identify with the furry subculture than average people and society.


 You may want to seek mental help if you find yourself able to empathize only with those who directly share the same interests with you. Like, a lot of it.



Kantress said:


> However, I never felt comfortable trying to befriend people not in this or another subculture I'm a part of (it would simply distract people if I mentioned that one).


 Yes, you definitely want to seek mental help, or at least step away from the computer and purposefully isolate yourself from the fandom and attempt to get some basic social interaction under your belt.



Kantress said:


> 2.) It actually IS a life-altering decision/discovery for people.


 And that is because those people tend to be a few bats short a belfry. The fandom has _zero_ philosophical or life-impacting qualities to it outside - very arguably - a greater fascination with animals and / or slight leans of transhumanism. The first of which shouldn't change one's life that heavily and the second of which means you're looking at a transhuman lifestyle instead of Furry.



Kantress said:


> It certainly was for me when I was 17. Hell, some, especially cubs, have had to fret over being identified as a furry because their parents


 May I ask just what you're smoking / drinking / consuming that you think parents are going about assigning "FURRY!" labels to their children, let alone that many non-fandom parents even know (or care) what furry is? Also, children. The term you're looking for is _children_, not cub. 



Kantress said:


> are either misinformed or philosophically retarded (that's gotten a lot better now since the hysteria about LGBT people is dying out).


 Do I even want to know what LGBT hysteria you think magically applies to the Furry fandom?



Kantress said:


> Who are you to tell me my discovery of the fandom was any less significant than a homo/bisexual or transgendered person's discovery of forces that are pro-LGBT?


 The fact that your fandom is _simply a fandom? 
_
Seriously, it is outright _insulting_ to equate someone's participation in the Furry fandom - even if to the degree of a lifestyler - with that of what someone has to go through with LGBT. Let alone if one tries to compare "outspoken Furry enthusiast" with "outright LGBT supporter" (especially considering just what kind of mud the latter was dragged through over the last few decades).



Kantress said:


> and a hatred of inferior societies,


 Tolerance!



Kantress said:


> but my behaviors and mannerisms and appearance are benign.


 "Hatred of inferior societies", "furry supremacist", "I never felt comfortable trying to befriend people not in this subculture", your behaviors and mannerisms are as benign as a rusty nail in one's foot.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 5, 2013)

People are still replying to posts Kantress made nearly a week, or even longer ago? Do you not think that someone else _already_ replied in exhaustive detail? 

This is futile; the only person who will actually read your post through is yourself.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 5, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> Anyone who builds their life around a fandom is a complete loser. Unless Furry is a religion...



Wow, what a prick...



Attaman said:


> Attaman's post



Jesus H. Christ. 

Ya hit a character limit there?!!?!?


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## Ozriel (Oct 5, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> People are still replying to posts Kantress made nearly a week, or even longer ago? Do you not think that someone else _already_ replied in exhaustive detail?
> 
> This is futile; the only person who will actually read your post through is yourself.



Indeed, but as long as the topic is still open, people can reply to whatever comments as they wish.


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## Iryno (Oct 5, 2013)

On the original topic... I got really interested in the fandom earlier this year and wondered where I fit on this spectrum. When I was younger it was more of a roleplay/porn thing, and now ten years later I feel very different about the "real-life" aspect of it. I think it's very interesting going on FA and reading more about the artists/musicians/comics/fursuiters that I've seen and learning about what they do for a living in the "Really-Real," the groups they identify with, their hobbies and interests other than furry, etc.

I think the whole FIAWOL v. FIJAGDH thing is stupid and most furs are somewhere in the middle. I haven't been to a con yet, but I would imagine that sharing your interests and hobbies with other people will probably change your life in some way by making new friends, having new experiences, and so on. Because that's how life works. People who take it to extremes and who would die to have their furry side brought into criticism one way or another are clearly mentally perturbed and just fucking nuts. For me it's easiest to say, "It's just what I like."


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## Batty Krueger (Oct 6, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> Anyone who builds their life around a fandom is a complete loser. Unless Furry is a religion...


I didn't build my life around the fandom.  The fandom built its life around me.


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## PsychicOtter (Oct 6, 2013)

For me it isn't (and never will be) anything more than a simple hobby.  But if it means a little more than that to somebody, it makes no difference to me.  As long as it's not taking over someone's life, I don't see why I should care.


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