# Requesting Feedback



## Dragoneer (Jan 20, 2006)

1) Themes and Categories -- What themes and categories are missing, and what themes would you like to see? Naturally, there are not enough categories to appeal to everybody, so we need to increase and revise them in each area.

2) Also, we are considering extending the ratings system to include:
PG/General, PG-13/Teen, R/Mature, X/Adult and Extreme. Extreme would cover many of those categories whose material is considered... "WHOA!" by a lot of people.

Also, we are going to be drastically revising the species list to make the selection process much easier and encompass more accurate selections. Along with that, another revision to the sexual categories (male, female, etc.) and streamlining that.


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## Vorotaev (Jan 20, 2006)

Is R/mature meant to cover things basic softcore stuff like cheesecake/non-sexual nudity? If so, it would seem a bit odd to lump things such as vore, toilet play, birthing, et al. in with plain ol' vanilla hardcore. Redundant as it seems, it might be better to have an adult category for softcore, another for sexually explicit adult material, and a third and final for fringe material. Or just congolmerate softcore and hardcore adult art, and have a separate category for fringe material, which generally has the highest likelihood of offending people anyways.

Then again, it might be easier still just to offer filters for extreme material, since what each individual considers extreme is no doubt quite varied.

Just my $0.02.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 20, 2006)

Vorotaev said:
			
		

> Is R/mature meant to cover things basic softcore stuff like cheesecake/non-sexual nudity? If so, it would seem a bit odd to lump things such as vore, toilet play, birthing, et al. in with plain ol' vanilla hardcore. Redundant as it seems, it might be better to have an adult category for softcore, another for sexually explicit adult material, and a third and final for fringe material. Or just congolmerate softcore and hardcore adult art, and have a separate category for fringe material, which generally has the highest likelihood of offending people anyways.
> 
> Then again, it might be easier still just to offer filters for extreme material, since what each individual considers extreme is no doubt quite varied.
> 
> Just my $0.02.


Birthing, toilet play, etc. is not softcore, and would not be limited to an "R" rating. Although, vore can be handled without sex involved, so... yeah, that would work. Things eat other things. It's all based on content.

I'm of the opinion that "Extreme" should be disabled by default and be a toggle that people can set to "Yes, I want to see this". However, it can just as easily work the opposite. Most fringe material would go into extreme, and we'll have better documentation in place to support 'what is and isn't'.


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## Suule (Jan 20, 2006)

CAUSE I'M I'M EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME MOTHERF***ER!

Themes and categories - I dunno.. latex, leather... x-dressing... wierd... 

Hmmrr... the new rating system sounds nice (Especially parting PG-13 and Mature) but PLEASE include in FAQ or TOS what each ranting stands for to avoid problems with certain people.

As for sexual categories - I think checkboxes would be the BEST solution.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 20, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> CAUSE I'M I'M EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME MOTHERF***ER!
> 
> Themes and categories - I dunno.. latex, leather... x-dressing... wierd...
> 
> ...


Checkboxes is what's planned.  Also, the ratings will have proper, easily accessable explanation.


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## Kitteh (Jan 20, 2006)

*my $.02*

hmm. for themes and categories, it's a bit strange for them to snap to 'abstract' and 'cellshading' initially - perhaps have 'Select one' in both bars initially, then a break and all the other menu options, and remind the user to choose one if they hit submit and forgot to specify either?

the extended rating system seems a bit unnecessary.. the current ratings are perfectly sufficient, imho. :3

concerning species, wouldn't it be easier to use checkboxes? i only say so because it pretty much solves the issue of having two or more different species in one submission, or some strange hybrid single character - we could just check any that apply; it saves a lot of art from being forced into the vague 'unspecified/any' category when they're either of two or more listed species or a recognisable hybrid.

_edit:_ ah yes, i almost forgot to mention! since you allow gifts/trades/commissions/other renditions of your characters drawn by other artists for you to be submitted to your gallery with permission, it would be nice to have some way to flag them as guest art (with perhaps a little field to name the artist and link to their website if applicable), to remove any possible confusion and the need to thoroughly spell out that the submission is a gift, not something you drew, in caps..


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## uncia2000 (Jan 20, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> 2) Also, we are considering extending the ratings system to include:
> PG/General, PG-13/Teen, R/Mature, X/Adult and Extreme. Extreme would cover many of those categories whose material is considered... "WHOA!" by a lot of people.


Do we have a copy of the latest _guidelines_ that are being worked on? (I know I couldn't find the time to feed back to Pinkuh, very early on... )

OK, my 02 cents...

Personally, I loathe the use of an "Extreme" category.
I can see why that might be deemed a "necessary evil" over on the likes of fchan (/ah/), but on FA the perceived "need" for an "Extreme" category would be an admission that our content flags are a failure.
If those content flags are maintained properly (no more a challenge than maintaining the ratings for those submissions), it should be easy for anyone to filter out those particular image contents that might cause their eyeballs to spontaneously combust.

The whole categorisation of "Extreme" also delves into personal value judgments that go beyond the usual "what is/is not adult-rated".
For instance, the likes of JAVA's sweet image (positive emotions) http://www.furaffinity.net/view/25039/ would likely be rated "Extreme" (if fchan guidelines are applied) yet negative/violent images such as (_*picks one at random*_) http://www.furaffinity.net/view/41989/ would merely be "X-Adult", "R-Mature" or possibly even "PG13-Teen".

Far easier/better to have content properly flagged and treat adults as adults; allowing them to filter out particular personal content "dislikes", if desired.

Thanks for asking.


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## kayanamasha (Jan 20, 2006)

i agree with unica2k about keeping "tame" and "adult" for fetish sections instead of adding an "extreme" level. we already got vore, bondage, fat and other weird stuffs. 

why not . . .
-guro
-masterbation
-rape
-torture, pain
-voyeurism
-super cute stuffs/chibi
-tentacles
-toys, tools, instruments 
-snuff and necrophilia. 

and group sonic, digimon and pokemon in a single category ( anim? / etc. )


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## Xax (Jan 21, 2006)

I've always been kind of a fan of, like... "Clean", "Slight violence" "Slight sexual content", "considerable violence", "considerable sexual content", etc. Maybe with other sets for more specific tags or ones not handled under the large umbrella of gore and sex.


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## dave hyena (Jan 21, 2006)

パタ& said:
			
		

> i agree with unica2k about keeping "tame" and "adult" for fetish sections instead of adding an "extreme" level.



I agree with this comment.


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## vashdragon (Jan 21, 2006)

First of all, i would like an Animation added as its own little theme.  Many times many others and myself like to use flash to do still images.  And flash can also mean games and the like.  Anyways, my point is, sometimes i just want to see an animation without having to shift through still images.  Or find a game without having to shift through animations.  They arent in huge demand, but making them their own theme would greatly help people who are in search of these things.

Also, if you plan to broaden the rating system, plz adopt one similar to the game rating system, not the tv and video one.  Movie rating system just sucks badly.  G for everyone.  T for teen.  (Curse words, minor violence.)  M for mature.  (Un-aroused nudity, images not of a sexual manner but can contain nudity, none serious violence but can show death in a none gory way.)  A for adult. (Full nudity, arousal, sexual situations, blood, serious violence.)  (Serious violence being something like showing the full on blood splatter of an entry wound from a bullet.)  And X for extreme stuff.  (These would be the fetishes such as scat, gore (guts and stuff), hardcore vore (softcore vore can still be A.), watersports, and cub pics if they are allowed.)

But plz no PG, PG-13, R and all that stuff.

Edit:  Umm also.  Uncia has a point.  I personaly dont mind looking at pics that depict bestiality and so on and stuff.  Heck most of my pictures are of the 4 legged dragon variety.  It would be a pain to have to put my images with an extreme flag just because i dont draw them human enough.


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## ArrowTibbs (Jan 21, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> 1) Themes and Categories -- What themes and categories are missing, abd what themes would you like to see? Naturally, there are not enough categories to appeal to everybody, so we need to increase and revise them in each area.





			
				Categories from Suggested: said:
			
		

> Add category for OpenCanvas works.
> 
> Post #146: Add tutorials category.



*Categories you have now (from Submit Artwork option):* 
Visual Art
Cellshading, Desktops(take this option out because it has it's own submission screen), Current Events(why is this a category? It should be in themes.), Designs, Digital Art, Flash, Icons, Mosaics, Photography, Prose(needs to be in Readable Art), Traditional, Wallpaper(aren't Desktops and Wallpapers the same thing?).
_Please add:_ Multiple Media, Painting, Marker, Sculpture, 

Readable Art Why is this under Artwork option when there is both a poetry and story option?
Story, Poetry.
_Please add:_ Prose from the list above.

Audio Art: Why is this under Artwork when there's a music option?
Music

Downloadable:
Skins, Handhelds, Resources.

Other Stuff:
Contests, Stock Art, Screencaps(why is this here when screencaps aren't allowed?), Other, Scraps (no reason for this to be here when there is a Scraps option).



			
				Themes from Suggested: said:
			
		

> Post #100: Adding tasteful nudity option. (2)
> 
> Post #91: Ability to check off multiple species/subjects.
> 
> ...



*Themes you have:*
General Things: (take off Things, just leave it as General)
Abstract(belongs in category), Non-Anthro/Animal Related, Anime, Fan Art, Comics, Doodle, Fantasy, Human, Scenery, Portraits, Still Life, Miscellaneous.
_Please add:_ Anthro from next listing.

Fetish/Furry Specialty: (Take off Furry Speciality. I'm just combining the adult/tame lists)
General Furry Art (take off, add to General), Fat Furs (take off Furs, make it just Fat), Inflation, Muscle, Paw, Pregnancy, Transformation, Vore, Baby Fur (take off Fur), Macro/Micro, Hyper (What's hyper when you have inflation, fat, and muscle?), Fursuit, Watersports, Fetish Other,
Digimon, Pokemon, Sonic (those three should be put under FanArt as a subcategory).
_Please Add:_ Gore, remove the double tame/adult repeats of these since the ratings system would take care of that.

Music: 
Techno, Trance, House, 90's, 80', 70's, 60's, pre-60's, Classical, Game Music, Rock, Pop, Rap, Industrial, Other Music.
_Please Add:_ Take off 90's thru pre-60's and Classical (since uploading music that isn't yours is not allowed and they aren't genres of music so much as time periods of music), take off Game Music (since it's copyright (if someone composes a song like a game song, then it'd fall under other I suppose)), add Compositions (replaces Classical, since Classical is like, Mozart as opposed to something someone has composed recently).

_Other suggestions:_
Take "music" options off of anything but the music submission form.



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> 2) Also, we are considering extending the ratings system to include:
> PG/General, PG-13/Teen, R/Mature, X/Adult and Extreme. Extreme would cover many of those categories whose material is considered... "WHOA!" by a lot of people.



I think that just G-PG, PG-13, Mature/R, and X would work. There's no need for the Extreme category if you have X, because that would pretty much cover it. 



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Also, we are going to be drastically revising the species list to make the selection process much easier and encompass more accurate selections.


*
What you have now:* 
Any:
Unspecific/Any (take this entire category off, put Unspecific in "Other")
Amphibian:
Other, Frog, Newt
Mammals:
Other, Bat, Bear, Canids: General, Wolf, Fox, Dog, Cetaceans: General,  Whale, Dolphin, Felines: General, Cat, Panther, Cheetah, Leopard (Leopard and Panther are the same species, a "black panther" is a melanistic leopard), Lion, Lynx, Tiger, Ferret, Gerbil, Hampster, Horse, Hyena(hyenas are canids to the best of my knowledge), Monkey, Mink, Mouse, Panda, Racoon, Rat, Skunk.
Avian:
Other, Crow, Eagle, Pheonix.
Dragon:
Other, Eastern, Hydra, Wyvern, Western, Serpent.
Reptiles:
Other, Alligator, Gecko, Lizard, Snake, Turtle.
Marsupial:
Other, Kangaroo, Possum, Opossum.
Not Listed:
Other

_Please add:_ Okay...Some have suggested check boxes to facilitate hybrids, however this is unrealistic considering the sheer amount of species there are. To streamline it, this is my suggestion - Have a species list, but have it restricted to, for example, this (mammals because it's easier to see what I mean that way):
Mammal:
Bear/Ursine
Feline
Canine
Weasel/Mustelid
Racoon/Procyon
Whale-Dolphin/Cetacean
Ungulate/Cow-Horse
Other

Then beside the list, have an entry box for entering the actual species. All you need are select part of the taxonomy system. Classes and some Orders would do, probably.



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Along with that, another revision to the sexual categories (male, female, etc.) and streamling that.





			
				From Suggestions said:
			
		

> Post #93: Add hermaphrodite, keep transgender. (2)
> 
> Post #101: Adding sexual orientation to options (IE, lesbian, gay, heterosexual) (2)
> 
> Post #144: Fix gender options (ie, "all female, all males, males and females, others, or none" - Darkmark).



*What you have:*
Any, Male, Female, Multiple Characters, Transgender, Other.


PS: I know it seems kind of uneccesary to post what's already on the site but it was actually easier for me to see what's already there so I could make my suggestions. Maybe others will find it useful as well ^^;


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## *morningstar (Jan 21, 2006)

I posted a lengthy comment on Dragoneer's journal about this exact thing. Mainly, my gripe is that all furry art is grouped together with fetishes, like it was added just as an afterthought. Acutally, I'll just copy/paste the comment.

---

To be honest the only thing I don't like about the submission and classification system *is* the classification system itself. The categories for anthro art are extremely fetish oriented, and to be honest it puts me off a bit. I realize that yes, a large portion of the images on this site are adult and are fetish related but... having a classification system that seems to revolve around fetishes makes the site feel like a porn dump sometimes.

The system needs more categories for clean anthro art, like portraits, character sheets, fantasy, horror/gore, cel shading, kemono, badges, oekaki, etc. All of the clean anthro art is being dumped into the 'General Furry Art (Tame)' section. If nothing more than a suggestion, maybe the fetishes listed could be set as tags instead of categories. That way, it would make it a little easier to classify clean art and people could classify adult art much more accurately based on multiple tags.

I'm sorry if this comes off as a bit much, but it's one of the only major things that I disagree with about how the site runs. Having a single category for clean furry art doesn't seem right on a specialty site like this.

---

Basically, we need more categories for 'normal' clean submissions badly, and clean, general furry art needs to be moved out of the fetish category, if only for appearances.

Being able to categorize based on medium would be convenient as well, instead of dumping everything into either digital or traditional.

Like... Traditional > Mixed Media > Badge, plus species tags and whatever else.

I vote for having species and fetishes set as tags so people can flag whatever is appropriate for their submission. In addition to that, why not have an 'Other' box where they have to fill it in as a keyword.


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## WindSeeker (Jan 22, 2006)

Would it be possible for you guys to make another species category, such as Fantasy Creatures, which would hhave some of the follong categories
Humanoid 
Unicorns
Pegasus
Gryphons
Centaurs
etc.

Just an idea...


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## Kitteh (Jan 22, 2006)

ArrowTibbs said:
			
		

> Okay...Some have suggested check boxes to facilitate hybrids, however this is unrealistic considering the sheer amount of species there are.



i meant that in the way of having a list of original species, and in the case of the character being a hybrid, the user could check all that apply, such as 'lynx' and 'bat,' or whatever.. to show up if someone searches for either species; not listing all possible species combinations.
i actually like your idea concerning this, as the number of species is quite daunting.. i'm just concerned letting users type in the species makes way for many typos/misspellings/general misinformation inputted.. it may get a little messy? also, it doesn't solve the dilemma of having characters of two or more different species in a drawing (and think if one or more was a hybrid!), though it would be nifty if something like an 'Add Secondary Species' link was just under the species selector, causing a second one to pop in it's place when clicked (and replaced with 'Add Third Species,' etc. below it if more need to be inputted).

just thinking out loud.


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## Killy the Fox (Jan 22, 2006)

My say in this is that we do need a oekaki category added. Simply marking an OC session as "Digital Art" isn't quite right as i want to explain better what kind of digital art it is I'm posting.

The system used on y!Gallery definitely wouldn't be a bad thing to look at as i find that easier to navigate then the slow process DA gives you. This already got addressed here by placing it all  on 1 page. It just needs to become as clean as y! shows with check-boxes or easy click-able buttons without page reloads.

I'm not fully in favor of the rating extending more. This will only cause confusion and more time from admins to point to what degree a submission should go as it would cause a lot of wrongly categorized submissions. Especially considering that people will not reevaluate there images for a new system. It is also hard to tell what one calls "extreme" as to one giant inflation is extreme while the other won't mind but finds scat to go to far. Everyone has a different threshold on what there max is and i think you can't make a system unified enough for every ones wishes in extreme adult/fetish art.

I am glad to see that the species list will get revised. It needs to be easier and far to often there species missing. The idea is great as it was, it just needs working out.

Ooh, one last thing. It is great that Pokemon has it's own category; But it isn't a fetish. All anime should go under 1 anime/fan art flag and not be a fetish.


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## kayanamasha (Jan 22, 2006)

i agree with ya. we need oekaki.
still in digital art, you may add :
-pixelart 
-vectors ( not flash )
-3D / rendered
-paintings 

...
-ascii art ?

desktops and wallpapers ares both different things. wallpaper: you are the author of what you submit.


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## ArrowTibbs (Jan 22, 2006)

パタ& said:
			
		

> desktops and wallpapers ares both different things. wallpaper: you are the author of what you submit.



Ohhhh, okay. Thaks for explaining that to me.


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## alumasqrl (Jan 24, 2006)

all my major concerns are already being well discussed at this point - and i don't know that this has been mentioned in another thread (i scanned through and didn't see it.)  but the "gender" dropdown menu (as well as the others) should default to the most generic type for that data field.  it shouldn't be set to default to "male" when there is a selection for "unspecified" in the list.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 25, 2006)

"Cellshading" category needs to be eliminated for 2 reasons

1. It is CEL Shading, unless you're talking about shading cell phones or single celled creatures.

2. Cel Shading can be done, digitally or traditionally so therefore it is a redundant category.


I would prefer you eliminate the species list all together, again, this is really cumbersome to people who simply want to submit art. This can easily be searched for by the search engine using keywords. If someone doesn't know how to spell the species they are rendering, this really THEIR problem.

Gender flags also seem unecessary since again this can be a keyword filter.

The only thing I can see relevant about the fetishes, is that if someone who doesn't want to view things in that category can use a checkbox to eliminate it.

Keep it simple, the more complex you make the submission process, when you have peope with lower connections or problems with a connection, the more frustrated you leave them becuase the process is annoying. This is art, not a credit card or a loan application.


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