# Nintendo Sucks



## Judge Spear (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm going to link 3 videos from the same creator who summarizes some recent happenings more succinctly than I could. The titles explain enough, but this iceberg could sink the Eisenhower. So I ask that you watch them to really get the full picture of what's going on here if you aren't already aware of the shitstorm that took place last month into now.














The more things change, the more things stay the same. Does anyone here remember in the 80's and 90's when Nintendo would attempt to monopolize the console market? They'd threaten large retailers like Toys'R'Us and EBGames with inventory shortages on the holidays if they sold competing, but less popular games. They put ludicrous manufacturing restrictions on third parties forcing companies like Konami to make expensive shell organizations like Ultra to circumvent their chokehold practices. They jacked up their SNES prices to astronomical levels just because they could.

Then Sega and Sony come along to slap them in the mouth with Sonic and Crash forcing them to check themselves. And lawmakers took notice and said "Hey Nintendo, maybe don't be total assholes. Maybe chill with the faux Yakuza shit."

Show of hands: who remembers that? Because I do. And I'm reminded of all this because it looks like big bully Nintendo is back and they have a whole new target.
Us.

And even after all of this, they're still not done! Just last night, we have this...








						Nintendo faces backlash for prohibiting sales of Etika-themed charity controllers
					

The cease and desist was given due to the use of JoyCon on the shell.




					dotesports.com
				




Glad my Switch is a paperweight. Don't care for any of the boring ass games for it and I'm not excited for jack shit they have coming. Good because I don't think I'm in much mood to buy Nintendo stuff right now.


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## Trevorbluesquirrel (Dec 8, 2020)

Nintendo has done some questionable and unfortunate things yes, but it is protective of its copyright, much like Disney!

3rd party controllers for the Sega, Ps1, etc., rarely feature the game maker's name on the controller for that reason!

I think it really started back with the unlicensed NES game makers mostly producing subpar games!

People are still making cartridge hacks though!

Also, Nintendo allowed Phillips to make games of their IP's, and look how that turned out!

Has anyone played any of these!?

15 Amazing Fan Games Nintendo Didn't Want the World to See - Wow Gallery | eBaum's World


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## TrishaCat (Dec 8, 2020)

Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> much like Disney


being the disney of video games isn't a good thing lol
Disney is kinda awful too. Like they COULD turn a blind eye to some of these things or even support it; SEGA supports fanworks a lot as an example.


Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> Also, Nintendo allowed Phillips to make games of their IP's, and look how that turned out!
> 
> Has anyone played any of these!?


Actually yes! A fan recently remade the Zelda CDi games to be playable on Windows PC.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332345549429886979The animation for the games is kinda charming, even if it is really goofy to look at. Music isn't bad either. Gameplay sucks donkey balls though lmao. You can't tell what's a platform and what isn't and enemies will spawn in front of you as you walk


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## JuniperW (Dec 8, 2020)

Recently, it seems as if companies responsible for creating childhood-defining media have turned out to be horrible, but if we're being real, we shouldn't expect anything better from mega-corporations. Disney's uninspired, cash-grab remakes have made me extremely hesitant to support them again. I feel the same way about Nintendo after hearing how defensive they are of their intellectual properties, I mean, we're talking about NON-PROFIT works here for crying out loud! Their fans are making projects out of love for games that inspired millions and honouring the memory of Etika (and the money's going towards a good cause). Yet they act callously and without any respect. 
Fuck Nintendo. I don't care if they have a legal right to do this. Legal doesn't mean morally correct. 
I wouldn't usually say something like that on here, but this sickens me to no end.


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## MainHammond (Dec 8, 2020)

The kids/teenagers from some years ago are hitting adulthood and learning that Nintendo is a company and not their friend. Lmao


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## Imperial Impact (Dec 8, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> being the disney of video games isn't a good thing lol


The difference is, Nintendo can still make good games. Disney can't make good movies anymore.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 8, 2020)

Companies are not your friend, and never really will be. You're fooling yourself if you think that.

AAA publishers/developers are going the way of the dodo, and the Indie markets are quickly taking over where there's been very little creativity for many years.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 8, 2020)

Nintendo will kill their brand on their own.
It's gonna go the way of Konami, Ubisoft, EA, etc etc.

Or it will if they keep going the way they are.


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## TrishaCat (Dec 8, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336246347423494144


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## Stratelier (Dec 9, 2020)

JuniperW said:


> I mean, we're talking about NON-PROFIT works here for crying out loud! Their fans are making projects out of love for games that inspired millions and honouring the memory of Etika (and the money's going towards a good cause). Yet they act callously and without any respect.


You don't have to _like_ the status quo, but:

1 - Legally speaking, a "cease and desist" notice IS respect (i.e. the alternative is a lawsuit, the cost of which naturally favors the "big fish" in the pond);
2 - The Switch logo isn't just copyrighted, it's also _trademarked_ (as is the name "Joy-con") and unlike copyrights, _trademarks have no analogue for Fair Use_;
3 - Non-profit or otherwise they were still creating and offering a for-sale product with a Nintendo Switch logo (their trademark) on it.

Now I agree that it looks like a good cause, and who knows if they would have received permission if they actually had asked first.  Etika used "Joycon Boyz" as a catchphrase on his channel, and people who remember him will associate the phrase with him, but that's actually part of the problem: legally the Joycon name just wasn't his to co-opt.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 9, 2020)

All Nintendo does is punch down.
It's obvious Nintendo doesn't give a crap about their gamers.
All this "they're protecting their IP" malarkey is sickening.
These people aren't stealing code or making bootlegs. They're fans who want to enjoy games and celebrate their legacy.
But nah. Nintendo has always been like this. They fought and lost against emulation long ago and they're always looking for an excuse to lord over the community.


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## Judge Spear (Dec 9, 2020)

Want to add because I forgot this in the OP but they went the full Apple route when it came to joycon drifting. You know, the inarguable defect in their already horrible new standard controller. 

They blamed it on consumers. The problem has not been addressed still. 


MainHammond said:


> Nintendo is a company and not their friend. Lmao



^


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## TrishaCat (Dec 9, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> Want to add because I forgot this in the OP but they went the full Apple route when it came to joycon drifting. You know, the inarguable defect in their already horrible new standard controller.
> 
> They blamed it on consumers. The problem has not been addressed still.


"JoYCoN DRifT isNt A rEaL pRObLem"
My own joycons suffer this x.x
A qtip and some alcohol helped a bit but if I try to play Animal Crossing in handheld mode I'm frequently greeted with my character trying to dig in the opposite direction I tell them to thanks to it.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 9, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> "JoYCoN DRifT isNt A rEaL pRObLem"


It's literally the reason I never bought one.
I get told "just use a third party controller"
Nah. I shouldn't have to. Product should work out of the box as intended and last. Ever since what's his face died, Nintendo's build quality went to shit.
Remember when Nintendo rigorously tested every product they made by dropping it multiple times from 4 feet to simulate a child dropping it?
Remember that Game Boy that survived a bomb and can still play Tetris to this day?

Long gone those days.


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## Judge Spear (Dec 9, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> "JoYCoN DRifT isNt A rEaL pRObLem"
> My own joycons suffer this x.x
> A qtip and some alcohol helped a bit but if I try to play Animal Crossing in handheld mode I'm frequently greeted with my character trying to dig in the opposite direction I tell them to thanks to it.



Mine started drifting literally 4 months after I got my Switch. I only played Thunder Force 4. My 360 controller from 2007gives me no problems. I have never had to open it. It has seen Rivals of Aether, Call of Duty, SSF4, SkullGirls, UMvC3, tons of bullet Hell, Sonic speedrunning, and hundreds upon hundreds upon _hundreds _of hours playing hundreds of games across my 360 and 5 computers over the last 13 years. 

And that's only one of the pads that haven't failed me.


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## Tendo64 (Dec 9, 2020)

JuniperW said:


> Fuck Nintendo. I don't care if they have a legal right to do this. Legal doesn't mean morally correct.


Friendly reminder it used to be legal to own slaves in several places
This obviously isn't as serious but it still shows the "legal = morally right" mentality is bs


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## Stratelier (Dec 9, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> These people aren't stealing code or making bootlegs.



Emulators aren't as much about the emulation code itself but that they don't (and in some cases can't) run an actual authorized copy/installation of the game directly, instead requiring an intermediate copy ("ROM") of the game.  (And even when they can, the fact that consoles are closed platforms is a formidable opponent; just look at what happened to Bleem)

And as painful as it is to admit, all fan projects using a different IP are bootlegs, by definition.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 9, 2020)

Stratelier said:


> Emulators aren't as much about the emulation code itself but that they don't (and in some cases can't) run an actual authorized copy/installation of the game directly, instead requiring an intermediate copy ("ROM") of the game.  (And even when they can, the fact that consoles are closed platforms is a formidable opponent; just look at what happened to Bleem)
> 
> And as painful as it is to admit, all fan projects using a different IP are bootlegs, by definition.


Fan projects that make no money and are therefore no threat to Nintendo.
But we still have a ton of Chinese consoles being sold on Amazon that contain original code from non-abandonware Nintendo titles.

By the way, Bleem won and only had to close because Nintendo refused to give product to stores that also sold Bleem software.
Nintendo was and is still a very, very petty company.

It's indefensible.


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## Eremurus (Dec 9, 2020)

Nintendo is a succubus. There's nothing redeeming about that company.

Their games suck. Their hardware sucks. Their netcode sucks. And lastly, their PR & customer service suck.

Corporate ghouls in business suits. All the competitive Smash community has EVER done is give Nintendo FREE advertising & marketing, while asking for nothing in return, and what does Nintendo do?

Shit all over us, repeatedly, since even the MLG and Evo 2013 days.


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## KimberVaile (Dec 9, 2020)

This genuinely upsets me, considering that like most kids I grew up with Nintendo. And, I still think Nintendo makes great games, though I don't think they still hold that same universal appeal they used to. The whole shutdown of Slippi, along with cancelling the Splatoon tournament right after, then on top of that cracking down on a charity for selling joycon skins, it's like, cartoonishly evil. It's cartoon villainy levels of scummy.

To be entirely fair, I understand Nintendo not wanting to associate their family friendly image with Esports, I get that. With the amount of loud room temp IQ e sports players screaming obscenities for somebody beating them in a video game, let alone, the growing trend of smash players understanding a novels worth of character combos yet failing to understand the basic fundamentals on how to wash the thick layer of oil off their body or even understanding how basic hygiene works. I can almost understand them not liking esports much.

What I don't get is targeting re uploads of their music on YouTube that aren't monetized or shutting down a charity operations despite much larger operations making profit off the same concept.

They deserve the backlash and the worse things that will inevitably follow.


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## Trevorbluesquirrel (Dec 9, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> being the disney of video games isn't a good thing lol
> Disney is kinda awful too. Like they COULD turn a blind eye to some of these things or even support it; SEGA supports fanworks a lot as an example.
> 
> Actually yes! A fan recently remade the Zelda CDi games to be playable on Windows PC.
> ...



I was actually referring to my link at the bottom of my post!

Thanks for your link though, could have been fun, but seems he pulled them!


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## Stratelier (Dec 9, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Fan projects that make no money and are therefore no threat to Nintendo.


For sure, what you do on your own time as a hobby is your own responsibility, and so long as you keep it under a "what happens in Vegas" type rule, nobody's the wiser.  BUT "threat" isn't always about the presence of any profit, and Nintendo has a well-known interest in defending their desired brand image.  So if one of your fan hobbies goes viral on the Internet, that exclamation mark you will hear isn't necessarily coming from MGS....

And China, while an obvious example isn't necessarily a great one given they are officially immune to foreign IP laws.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 9, 2020)

This is when I wish SMT 5, the only game I'm really looking forward to on the system, could be released on ANY OTHER PLATFORM besides the Switch.  (And it's not even first-party, so they could do it!)  And also why I'm glad I finished getting everything I ever wanted on the 3DS (since I don't know when that eShop is closing).

I've become increasingly reluctant to get any new consoles since I don't live in the right areas for hardcore console gamers (I'm too isolated here) and because of the fiasco I had with the PS3.  I was never much of a Smash player even back in the N64 days and I never bothered with the WiiU.  What these companies really need to realize is... the days of stranglehold control are LONG over.

They can't keep a hold on us forever.  So many companies have already made that mistake.



.....and regarding the whole Phillips thing, one run-in with a third-party (Animation Magic, the people behind MOST of the CD-i titles in general and one PC edutainment/FPS game... who apparently brought over Russian animators for at least the Zelda stuff, and right after the Cold War no less.  THIS is how those memes came about) is no excuse for them to not try again.  There are PLENTY of people that could make an innovative and quality title with Nintendo's IPs now.


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## Meta_Tiara (Dec 9, 2020)

I have a love-hate relationship with Nintendo. I still think it’s a good software company overall despite the baffling decisions that have gone into their most recent games, most notably with Animal Crossing: New Horizons and stuff like having to craft fish bait *one by one* and how you still can’t upgrade the shop past it’s second stage even though it has been nearly nine months. It’s their overzealous attitudes about protecting their ips is what’s especially bad.

This link is relevant: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nintendo-roms-emulator-loveroms-loveretro-lawsuit


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## Judge Spear (Dec 9, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335817630972866563


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## Stratelier (Dec 10, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> There are PLENTY of people that could make an innovative and quality title with Nintendo's IPs now.


Shall we list games made in collaboration with (or by) external developers?

Good:
- Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity (with Koei Tecmo)
- Mario vs. Rabbids (with Ubisoft)
- Cadence of Hyrule (with Brace Yourself Games)

Bad (or at least polarizing):
- Metroid: Other M (with Team Ninja)
- Star Fox Zero (with Platinum Games)

Ugly:
- Zelda CD-i games (by Philips)


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 10, 2020)

Stratelier said:


> For sure, what you do on your own time as a hobby is your own responsibility, and so long as you keep it under a "what happens in Vegas" type rule, nobody's the wiser.  BUT "threat" isn't always about the presence of any profit, and Nintendo has a well-known interest in defending their desired brand image.  So if one of your fan hobbies goes viral on the Internet, that exclamation mark you will hear isn't necessarily coming from MGS....
> 
> And China, while an obvious example isn't necessarily a great one given they are officially immune to foreign IP laws.


Don't give two shits to be honest.

At this point, I'm more than fine with piracy and bootlegging.

Used to say "Hey, if you like it, give them some money"

Yeah... not any more. I don't give a shit if they crash. It's their own damn fault for not having the foresight.


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## Judge Spear (Dec 10, 2020)

More from Omni.


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## Baalf (Dec 10, 2020)

If anything, I sort of understand that Nintendo probably wants to shut down the melee community because they may think it's detracting from the sales of Super Smash Brothers ultimate. I'm not defending them, I'm just guessing what the reason is.


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## Judge Spear (Dec 10, 2020)

BennyJackdaw said:


> If anything, I sort of understand that Nintendo probably wants to shut down the melee community because they may think it's detracting from the sales of Super Smash Brothers ultimate. I'm not defending them, I'm just guessing what the reason is.


It's not.
And they gave their reason already. It was bullshit.


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## Niedlich the Folf (Dec 10, 2020)

All of Nintendo's controllers have always sucked and I question why they haven't learned with examples being: N64 controllers control stick being a hard plastic that hurts to push and eventually after a while it gets loose, the Wiimote's batterys corrode if left in, the WiiU gamepad had a bad battery life, the NES and Famicom controllers wires were too short, the SNES had this ball in the middle of the d-pad that over time would wear down, and of course the infamous JoyCon drift. The only issue I can think of with the Gamecube controller is that its right control stick was awkwardly tiny.


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## TyraWadman (Dec 10, 2020)

I personally don't understand the drama of hearing that a company doesn't want to do that one thing that a small group of people want them to do. If anything, I wouldn't expect any less. They also have an agreement for anyone wanting to partner with them. 

I know I personally wouldn't feel comfortable trusting my IP (you know, the things I spent x amount of years creating and developing from my own blood sweat and tears) with a gaming community just because they insist they can do better with it. Because if they DON'T do good with it, then that's now on MY shoulders to clean up and honestly, if it's a tiny portion of the gaming community saying it's good, but the rest of them are saying 'it's not', then I feel like they're gonna go where the bigger numbers are. 

And given the nature of esports and Nintendo, Smash doesn't need to be associated with the cringey gamers screaming on their streams and drowning in energy drinks and promoting even more unhealthy and manipulative 'hype' lifestyles. I'd prefer to at least have one gaming community where gambling isn't a thing, or if it is, it's well regulated and occasional vs ALL the time.


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## Stratelier (Dec 10, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> I know I personally wouldn't feel comfortable trusting my IP (you know, the things I spent x amount of years creating and developing from my own blood sweat and tears) with a gaming community just because they insist they can do better with it. Because if they DON'T do good with it, then that's now on MY shoulders to clean up...


Alternatively, if you created a product of your own only for a "bigger fish" to follow yours with a (possibly conveniently-timed) rival product that completely eclipses you off the market radar, what can you do.  Because that's _exactly_ how capitalism works!


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## TyraWadman (Dec 10, 2020)

Stratelier said:


> Alternatively, if you created a product of your own only for a "bigger fish" to follow yours with a (possibly conveniently-timed) rival product that completely eclipses you off the market radar, what can you do.  Because that's _exactly_ how capitalism works!



That would also suck! Especially since kickstarters usually involve explaining the entire aspect and showing progress of development. 
But seeing as Nintendo is exclusive, I feel like you could easily market on platforms like Steam, Epic, GOG, etc and do just fine. Assuming it really is the 'next big thing'.


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## Judge Spear (Dec 11, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> I personally don't understand the drama of hearing that a company doesn't want to do that one thing that a small group of people want them to do. If anything, I wouldn't expect any less. They also have an agreement for anyone wanting to partner with them.
> 
> I know I personally wouldn't feel comfortable trusting my IP (you know, the things I spent x amount of years creating and developing from my own blood sweat and tears) with a gaming community just because they insist they can do better with it. Because if they DON'T do good with it, then that's now on MY shoulders to clean up and honestly, if it's a tiny portion of the gaming community saying it's good, but the rest of them are saying 'it's not', then I feel like they're gonna go where the bigger numbers are.
> 
> And given the nature of esports and Nintendo, Smash doesn't need to be associated with the cringey gamers screaming on their streams and drowning in energy drinks and promoting even more unhealthy and manipulative 'hype' lifestyles. I'd prefer to at least have one gaming community where gambling isn't a thing, or if it is, it's well regulated and occasional vs ALL the time.


Im assuming this is referring to Melee. The main crux of the issue here is that people wanted to play a game online during a pandemic with actual good netcode.
No one asked Nintendo to host their Slippi tourney's because we know they wouldnt.
They offer no alternatives for the things their communities are trying to do which is literally just enjoy what they put out. 

They're the only company that is this adamant about it when every one of their peers either doesnt care, offers better paid solutions, or outright endorses what their fans do because everyone benefits.
Microsoft. Arksys. Capcom. Valve. Sega. Konami (yugioh). Ubisoft. Bethesda/Id. Even Blizzard among many others have all at some point or currently make life easier for folks trying to olay their games competitively. 

If Nintendo doesnt want to directly support it, fine. But why do emulator mods and tournaments things that arent infringing on their properties need to be snuffed out this aggressively? 

All that effort for a "small group of people" on the Internet?
You would think a company WOULD want a piece of that free pie.


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## Imperial Impact (Dec 11, 2020)

Lmao


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## TrishaCat (Dec 11, 2020)




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## Imperial Impact (Dec 11, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> I'm going to link 3 videos from the same creator who summarizes some recent happenings more succinctly than I could. The titles explain enough, but this iceberg could sink the Eisenhower. So I ask that you watch them to really get the full picture of what's going on here if you aren't already aware of the shitstorm that took place last month into now.
> 
> The more things change, the more things stay the same. Does anyone here remember in the 80's and 90's when Nintendo would attempt to monopolize the console market? They'd threaten large retailers like Toys'R'Us and EBGames with inventory shortages on the holidays if they sold competing, but less popular games. They put ludicrous manufacturing restrictions on third parties forcing companies like Konami to make expensive shell organizations like Ultra to circumvent their chokehold practices. They jacked up their SNES prices to astronomical levels just because they could.
> 
> ...


Good, Let Melee die already.


Judge Spear said:


> The more things change, the more things stay the same. Does anyone here remember in the 80's and 90's when Nintendo would attempt to monopolize the console market? They'd threaten large retailers like Toys'R'Us and EBGames with inventory shortages on the holidays if they sold competing, but less popular games. They put ludicrous manufacturing restrictions on third parties forcing companies like Konami to make expensive shell organizations like Ultra to circumvent their chokehold practices. They jacked up their SNES prices to astronomical levels just because they could.


Don't remember the former, But I do remember they tried to match the price to their Japanese prices witch isn't a good thing in our end because the common work hours in a Japanese job is like 8~10 hours, Everyday but Sunday (day off). Here in North American, We don't have to work -that- much, But of course, we don't get that much money like they do.


Judge Spear said:


> Then Sega and Sony come along to slap them in the mouth with Sonic and Crash forcing them to check themselves. And lawmakers took notice and said "Hey Nintendo, maybe don't be total assholes. Maybe chill with the faux Yakuza shit."


Sega was doing pretty badly back then, So it's more like Sony and NEC Corp.


Judge Spear said:


> And even after all of this, they're still not done! Just last night, we have this...


I mean, He -did- got drunk on stream and showed off the main unit of the Switch, After all.


Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> Nintendo has done some questionable and unfortunate things yes, but it is protective of its copyright, much like Disney!
> 
> 3rd party controllers for the Sega, Ps1, etc., rarely feature the game maker's name on the controller for that reason!
> 
> ...


Oh no, Nintendo tried to prevent people from playing shitty games. Those monster!


JuniperW said:


> Recently, it seems as if companies responsible for creating childhood-defining media have turned out to be horrible, but if we're being real, we shouldn't expect anything better from mega-corporations. Disney's uninspired, cash-grab remakes have made me extremely hesitant to support them again. I feel the same way about Nintendo after hearing how defensive they are of their intellectual properties, I mean, we're talking about NON-PROFIT works here for crying out loud! Their fans are making projects out of love for games that inspired millions and honouring the memory of Etika (and the money's going towards a good cause). Yet they act callously and without any respect.
> Fuck Nintendo. I don't care if they have a legal right to do this. Legal doesn't mean morally correct.
> I wouldn't usually say something like that on here, but this sickens me to no end.


You strike me as the kind of person who would say that Lion king is a total rip off of Kimba the white lion.


MainHammond said:


> The kids/teenagers from some years ago are hitting adulthood and learning that Nintendo is a company and not their friend. Lmao


It's kind of disturbing to see people to be 100% loyally, Not just Nintendo itself, But with other corporates like Cartoon Network and Steven Universe.


Judge Spear said:


> but they went the full Apple route when it came to joycon drifting. You know, the inarguable defect in their already horrible new standard controller.
> 
> They blamed it on consumers. The problem has not been addressed still.


Yeah, This wasn't very good on their behalf. But really, Who uses Joycons? Just buy a 3rd party Pro controller.


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## Imperial Impact (Dec 11, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Nah. I shouldn't have to. Product should work out of the box as intended and last. Ever since what's his face died, Nintendo's build quality went to shit.
> Remember when Nintendo rigorously tested every product they made by dropping it multiple times from 4 feet to simulate a child dropping it?
> Remember that Game Boy that survived a bomb and can still play Tetris to this day?
> 
> Long gone those days.


Phat DS and the first wave of DS lite were awful. So it's nothing new to the least.


Tendo64 said:


> Friendly reminder it used to be legal to own slaves in several places
> This obviously isn't as serious but it still shows the "legal = morally right" mentality is bs


Why are you applying old European morals to a Japanese company? Get off Twitter.


Eremurus said:


> Nintendo is a succubus. There's nothing redeeming about that company.
> 
> Their games suck. Their hardware sucks. Their netcode sucks. And lastly, their PR & customer service suck.
> 
> ...


Lmao, You're a Schizo.


KimberVaile said:


> To be entirely fair, I understand Nintendo not wanting to associate their family friendly image with Esports, I get that. With the amount of loud room temp IQ e sports players screaming obscenities for somebody beating them in a video game, let alone, the growing trend of smash players understanding a novels worth of character combos yet failing to understand the basic fundamentals on how to wash the thick layer of oil off their body or even understanding how basic hygiene works. I can almost understand them not liking esports much.
> 
> What I don't get is targeting re uploads of their music on YouTube that aren't monetized or shutting down a charity operations despite much larger operations making profit off the same concept.
> 
> They deserve the backlash and the worse things that will inevitably follow.


FINALLY, Someone understands sees the whole picture. Smash players are simply bad people.


FrostyTheDragon said:


> This is when I wish SMT 5, the only game I'm really looking forward to on the system, could be released on ANY OTHER PLATFORM besides the Switch. (And it's not even first-party, so they could do it!)


Because Atlus puts out most of the SMT games onto Nintendo systems, They been doing this for *YEARS*. Only Nine, most of the Devil summoner games, Persona are the only games that have yet to show up in anyway or form on a Nintendo system.


FrostyTheDragon said:


> And also why I'm glad I finished getting everything I ever wanted on the 3DS (since I don't know when that eShop is closing).


Because the 3DS is *DEAD.*


Judge Spear said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335817630972866563


Valve is barely a company anymore.


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## JuniperW (Dec 11, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Good, Let Melee die already.


People aren’t allowed to have fun, apparently. Radical idea here, but how about we let others play the video games they want to?


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## Imperial Impact (Dec 11, 2020)

Niedlich the Wolf said:


> the Wiimote's batterys corrode if left in, the WiiU gamepad had a bad battery life


Never happen to me, But keep in mind, I had a device that was a substitute for the batteries.


Niedlich the Wolf said:


> the NES controllers wires were too short.


They were average.


Niedlich the Wolf said:


> the SNES had this ball in the middle of the d-pad that over time would wear down


I own 2 used SNES and 1 band new (that I got back in 2001) and they work just fine.


Toby_Morpheus said:


> Don't give two shits to be honest.
> 
> At this point, I'm more than fine with piracy and bootlegging.
> 
> ...


Go outside, Take a walk, Talk to people.


Judge Spear said:


> Im assuming this is referring to Melee. The main crux of the issue here is that people wanted to play a game online during a pandemic with actual good netcode.
> No one asked Nintendo to host their Slippi tourney's because we know they wouldnt.
> They offer no alternatives for the things their communities are trying to do which is literally just enjoy what they put out.


This is sad, Since the one on WiiU was good/passable and I was hoping for the Switch's to be even better since was hoping to be a step up from the older one (Seeing that you have to pay Nintendo every month for the damn thing). And something about the emulation for the NES/SNES online being poor like fucking lag of all things.


JuniperW said:


> People aren’t allowed to have fun, apparently. Radical idea here, but how about we let others play the video games they want to?


I agree, Super Smash Bros. Melee isn't a fun nor a good game.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 11, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Go outside, Take a walk, Talk to people.


Hey, you want people to treat you respectfully?
Don't patronize them.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 11, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Hey, you want people to treat you respectfully?
> Don't patronize them.


You are justifying your illegal ways by telling us that you don't care about the law and saying we need to fuck Nintendo over? One would think that you're a Sony or a Microsoft fan.


----------



## Tendo64 (Dec 11, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Why are you applying old European morals to a Japanese company? Get off Twitter.


If you were trying to offend me, I find anyone who says "Get off Twitter" unironically to be a laughing stock. I especially can't take you seriously when you're someone who insults people for liking a game you dislike like some twelve year old kid, as someone who doesn't even like Melee. Get some sandpaper for that edge of yours before you cut someone with it.


----------



## Eremurus (Dec 11, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Hey, you want people to treat you respectfully?
> Don't patronize them.


Apparently, I'm schizophrenic. I've been involved in the competitive Smash community since 2007. 

Some people just really don't like Smash players or the games.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 12, 2020)

Tendo64 said:


> If you were trying to offend me, I find anyone who says "Get off Twitter" unironically to be a laughing stock. I especially can't take you seriously when you're someone who insults people for liking a game you dislike like some twelve year old kid, as someone who doesn't even like Melee. Get some sandpaper for that edge of yours before you cut someone with it.


I don't like Smash nor Melee and you still haven't gotten off from Twitter.

Your logic is flawed. 


Eremurus said:


> Apparently, I'm schizophrenic. I've been involved in the competitive Smash community since 2007.
> 
> Some people just really don't like Smash players or the games.


Typing in green text doesn't help your case?


----------



## Eremurus (Dec 12, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Typing in green text doesn't help your case?


This isn't green. Also, what's that got to do with what was said? Just so we are clear; I'm the schizophrenic?


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 12, 2020)

Eremurus said:


> This isn't green. Also, what's that got to do with what was said? Just so we are clear; I'm the schizophrenic?


Typing in any colour that isn't black is not acceptable. But yes, Calling Nintendo "Corporate ghouls in business suits" is schizo talk. Especially when Bandai, Blizzard, Konami, Naughty dog, Capcom are still a thing.


----------



## Eremurus (Dec 12, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Typing in any colour that isn't black is not acceptable. But yes, Calling Nintendo "Corporate ghouls in business suits" is schizo talk. Especially when Bandai, Blizzard, Konami, Naughty dog, Capcom are still a thing.



I don't like Nintendo, but that doesn't automatically mean I like other companies? Because I don't. The entire industry sucks. 

You... sure you know what schizophrenia is?


----------



## TrishaCat (Dec 12, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Oh no, Nintendo tried to prevent people from playing shitty games. Those monster!


Hey AM2R and Zelda: The Missing Link were pretty gud
The latter has a really challenging dungeon with this fascinating item that makes you travel back to the location you were a few seconds ago, resulting in some really cool puzzles. Super short though.


----------



## Stratelier (Dec 12, 2020)

Eremurus said:


> This isn't green. Also, what's that got to do with what was said?


Are you by chance running the forums on dark mode?  Because other people aren't.  Please stick with the default color (or pick something high-contrast that is easy to read on either end of the spectrum).


----------



## Eremurus (Dec 12, 2020)

Stratelier said:


> Are you by chance running the forums on dark mode?  Because other people aren't.  Please stick with the default color (or pick something high-contrast that is easy to read on either end of the spectrum).


Edit*

Too much hassle. I'll just use default.


----------



## TyraWadman (Dec 12, 2020)

Eremurus said:


> Yes, I use dark theme on every website with that option. There aren't any colours that contrast well with both. Just to humour you; I took a screenshot on the light theme. It's 100% visible, I don't know what you're talking about. It's probably just YOUR poor eyesight.
> 
> View attachment 96257
> 
> You can't read this? It looks fine. So no, I won't change it. Sorry. I like this colour.


I can read it just fine. 
I don't like the shade, but it's still 10x better than people that like to use the lightest shade of pink. XD


----------



## Eremurus (Dec 12, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> I can read it just fine.
> I don't like the shade, but it's still 10x better than people that like to use the lightest shade of pink. XD


Well, you don't have to worry about that. Not my forte.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 12, 2020)

Eremurus said:


> I don't like Nintendo, but that doesn't automatically mean I like other companies? Because I don't. The entire industry sucks.
> 
> You... sure you know what schizophrenia is?


When the fuck did I assumed that you liked those companies?

Can you even read?


TrishaCat said:


> Hey AM2R and Zelda: The Missing Link were pretty gud
> The latter has a really challenging dungeon with this fascinating item that makes you travel back to the location you were a few seconds ago, resulting in some really cool puzzles. Super short though.


Never heard of the latter and I'm very sorry for the former being lumped in with those garbage games.


----------



## Eremurus (Dec 12, 2020)

You tell me: you chewed me out for I guess like, only mentioning Nintendo? In a thread about them? Why would I even mention the others? I don't need to shit on the others to say Nintendo is a ghoulish corporation full of suits.

You are so illogical.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 13, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> You are justifying your illegal ways by telling us that you don't care about the law and saying we need to fuck Nintendo over? One would think that you're a Sony or a Microsoft fan.


I don't give two shits about either of them, either. 

Also, I never said we need to fuck Nintendo over.
Just saying that because of their shit behavior, I stopped caring about pirates. Never called for anyone doing anything illegal. Most I will outright say is maybe a boycott is in order.
*shrug*


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 13, 2020)

Eremurus said:


> You tell me: you chewed me out for I guess like, only mentioning Nintendo? In a thread about them? Why would I even mention the others? I don't need to shit on the others to say Nintendo is a ghoulish corporation full of suits.
> 
> You are so illogical.


If Nintendo was so bad then why are they where okay with fans making a English patch for Mother 3?


Toby_Morpheus said:


> I don't give two shits about either of them, either.
> 
> Also, I never said we need to fuck Nintendo over.
> Just saying that because of their shit behavior, I stopped caring about pirates. Never called for anyone doing anything illegal. Most I will outright say is maybe a boycott is in order.
> *shrug*


If you're not then we are you in this topic to begin with?


----------



## KD142000 (Dec 13, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Lmao, You're a Schizo.


It's sentences like these that makes me wonder if I'm in some sort of bizarre time warp. Don't remember it being the year 2006.
In all seriousness, refrain from using such insults and derogatory terms. It's uncalled for.

Being serious about this...
I don't know enough about Nintendo to say whether they suck or not. I don't spend 17 hours of every day of my life brown-nosing a logo, nor do I look up videos demonising said logo. I'm in the middle of those extremes.

I will say my experience with the Nintendo products I have owned and used over the years has been positive. I have owned a DS Lite and Wii. Nothing more than that. For right now, I am under the domain of Sony.

Someone brought the shutting down of the Etsy store selling JoyCon things to my attention. Point being, they were selling unofficial products and the proceeds went to charity (don't know how much, I only heard this, didn't really research exactly what).

Nintendo has the right to decide when and where the word 'JoyCon' is used. They registered the trademark and they own it. They, therefore, have the legal right to take down anything using it without their permission or using it in a way they don't like.

However, them having said store on Etsy taken down was a shitty move, I'll say that. They should have at least said: 'We didn't authorise this, but we'll talk with you about how we can make this OK in terms of law, alright?'. That's what I would have done as a CEO of Nintendo. So on this instance, I'm taking a 'Yeah, they had the right to, but it was still pretty shitty of them to flex said right cos it was for charity'.


----------



## Stratelier (Dec 13, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> If Nintendo was so bad then why are they where okay with fans making a English patch for Mother 3?


But were they actually? Fan projects tend to start and remain small, so it's generally only when one goes viral/mainstream that a company actually steps in to shut it down (or in rarer cases, officially license it).


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 14, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> I mean, He -did- got drunk on stream and showed off the main unit of the Switch, After all.
> 
> Yeah, This wasn't very good on their behalf. But really, Who uses Joycons? Just buy a 3rd party Pro controller.


That was a fake replica. Either way, the situation around the Etika Joycons is developing and apparently the ones who made them weren't the most honest people. So I'm letting that argument die. Nintendo can have that.

As for the JoyCons, there's third party controllers that are better, yes. Believe me, I know, I have *seven* of them. 

But the single richest company in Japan can do better than to release something objectively faulty and not address it. It's ridiculous to have to buy additional controllers (that can't attach to the Switch) because Nintendo doesn't want to make what you paid $300 for work properly for the long haul. If I have to play in table top mode or console mode all the time to use my _good _controllers, that effectively destroys the entire point of the damn thing.


----------



## Trevorbluesquirrel (Dec 14, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> Hey AM2R and Zelda: The Missing Link were pretty gud
> The latter has a really challenging dungeon with this fascinating item that makes you travel back to the location you were a few seconds ago, resulting in some really cool puzzles. Super short though.



Yeah, some unlicensed games do turn out OK, like Krazy Kreatures, Toobin', and Castlevania: Simon's Destiny!


----------



## Stratelier (Dec 14, 2020)

Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> Toobin'


... I guess you're probably not talking about Midway's 1988 arcade game there?


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 15, 2020)

Stratelier said:


> ... I guess you're probably not talking about Midway's 1988 arcade game there?


Was legit thinking the same thing. Had to squint for a minute.


----------



## fernshiine (Dec 16, 2020)

This is an interesting thread because I was just wondering whether or not I want to buy the Switch.

I don't think I will, knowing they're doing this, and will just stick with the consoles I have and maybe buy something like Xbox or Playstation. My father wants one and I've been thinking of buying one for us to play on along with ordering Minecraft for it.

Does suck because the system seems good but ridiculously expensive, plus all this stuff is yikes


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 16, 2020)

fernshiine said:


> This is an interesting thread because I was just wondering whether or not I want to buy the Switch.
> 
> I don't think I will, knowing they're doing this, and will just stick with the consoles I have and maybe buy something like Xbox or Playstation. My father wants one and I've been thinking of buying one for us to play on along with ordering Minecraft for it.
> 
> Does suck because the system seems good but ridiculously expensive, plus all this stuff is yikes


Eh... Its a good port machine at least. Can't stand the first party shit.
I'd wait anyway since an updated model is releasing next year. Wait on more news for that.


----------



## fernshiine (Dec 16, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> Eh... Its a good port machine at least. Can't stand the first party shit.
> I'd wait anyway since an updated model is releasing next year. Wait on more news for that.


Ahhh good call.


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 17, 2020)

Keep in mind this thread isnt some cringy call to action boycott bullshit. I've known for 15 years Nintendo has been shitty to folks around them just like any other F500 company.

*I'm* not giving them money for a bit until I see them at least calm the Hell down. But dont let this influence your own purchases. Its just something relevant to talk about.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 17, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> Keep in mind this thread isnt some cringy call to action boycott bullshit. I've known for 15 years Nintendo has been shitty to folks around them just like any other F500 company.
> 
> *I'm* not giving them money for a bit until I see them at least calm the Hell down. But dont let this influence your own purchases. Its just something relevant to talk about.


That's pretty much what a boycott is.
The only protest a big company really listens to is one that hits their pocketbook.

So if you like Nintendo and want to see them do better, just hold off on purchases until they get their head out of their ass.


----------



## ZebraDrugs (Dec 17, 2020)

Good games. Evil company,. I have no idea if this is a popular opinion or not but: Why do i have to pay for online gaming? They have more than enough money as we can all see.

i'd rather support smaller companies. Like innersloth (Not sure if they're considered small anymore tho.)


----------



## TyraWadman (Dec 17, 2020)

ZebraDrugs said:


> Good games. Evil company,. I have no idea if this is a popular opinion or not but: Why do i have to pay for online gaming? They have more than enough money as we can all see.



Or at least make online gaming free for games like animal crossing! All you're doing is visiting someone! It's not nearly as chaotic as Smash Bros or Mario Kart.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 17, 2020)

ZebraDrugs said:


> Good games. Evil company,. I have no idea if this is a popular opinion or not but: Why do i have to pay for online gaming? They have more than enough money as we can all see.
> 
> i'd rather support smaller companies. Like innersloth (Not sure if they're considered small anymore tho.)


Have you tried playing Smash online?
That netcode is not worth paying for lmao


----------



## ZebraDrugs (Dec 17, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> Or at least make online gaming free for games like animal crossing! All you're doing is visiting someone! It's not nearly as chaotic as Smash Bros or Mario Kart.


For real though. Acnh is already 60$, why do i need to add 20?


----------



## ZebraDrugs (Dec 17, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Have you tried playing Smash online?
> That netcode is not worth paying for lmao


I don't have smash anymore. I had it on my old wiiu which started failing soon after i got bought smash


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 17, 2020)

ZebraDrugs said:


> I don't have smash anymore. I had it on my old wiiu which started failing soon after i got bought smash


It hasn't gotten much better since Wii


----------



## ZebraDrugs (Dec 17, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> It hasn't gotten much better since Wii


oof. i'd rather play with bots tbh


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 17, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> That's pretty much what a boycott is.
> The only protest a big company really listens to is one that hits their pocketbook.
> 
> So if you like Nintendo and want to see them do better, just hold off on purchases until they get their head out of their ass.


I'm talking *rallying* OTHER people to join me in some major boycotting effort.


----------



## Deleted member 133545 (Dec 17, 2020)

Their latest Pokemon games and the….awful character picks to participate in smash, was already enough for me to know Nintendo is falling down to total retardation


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 18, 2020)

Marco Polio said:


> Their latest Pokemon games and the….awful character picks to participate in smash, was already enough for me to know Nintendo is falling down to total retardation


I cant stand Ultimate. The picks arent what bug me mainly (despite half the roster being same faced anime characters). Just everything else.
The roster size is impressive but I'm over it. Been over it.
I'd rather have 8 unique well synergized characters than 90 that mostly feel the same.
And literally every mode that isn't basic local sucks ass.


----------



## Mop (Dec 18, 2020)

Nintendo has always been heavy-handed towards fan material, this is not new. It sucks for the people who are really dedicated to their stuff but honestly I don't really care much, which is how the average consumer should also think.

I'll buy games if they're good, I'm not going to boycott the entire company or whatever just because of this.

Also this outrage culture in nerd-culture communities is so stupid. You act as if you're collapsing these huge companies but have you seen their stocks or profits? These big video game companies are doing pretty well, even the most hated ones like EA.


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 18, 2020)

Mop said:


> I'll buy games if they're good, I'm not going to boycott the entire company or whatever just because of this.
> 
> Also this outrage culture in nerd-culture communities is so stupid. You act as if you're collapsing these huge companies but have you seen their stocks or profits? These big video game companies are doing pretty well, even the most hated ones like EA.





Judge Spear said:


> Keep in mind *this thread isnt some cringy call to action boycott bullshit.* I've known for 15 years Nintendo has been shitty to folks around them just like any other F500 company.
> 
> *I'm* not giving them money for a bit until I see them at least calm the Hell down. But *dont let this influence your own purchases. Its just something relevant to talk about.*



No one's trying to collapse anything.
Learn how to read.


----------



## Mop (Dec 18, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> No one's trying to collapse anything.


You have literally said that you are boycotting them for the forseeable future in your own quoted message.

Also, whether this specific thread is a call to arms in boycotting Nintendo isn't what I was talking about; it's the pervasive outrage culture within threads and spaces like this about companies like EA, Blizzard, Disney (and now Nintendo, etc.) that I was criticising. Some people, observable within this thread as well as elsewhere, think that these big companies are dying due to the outrage they've generated in niche communities like this.

You said it nicely:


Judge Spear said:


> Learn how to read.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 18, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> I'm talking *rallying* OTHER people to join me in some major boycotting effort.


Eh.
People are gonna do what they want.
Anyone who is rallied was predisposed to anyways.


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 18, 2020)

Mop said:


> You have literally said that you are boycotting them for the forseeable future in your own quoted message.



Your posts imply the goofy assumption that I'm trying to jumpstart some cause when I've already stated before you came in here on the defense that isn't the purpose. It takes no effort for a person to not buy luxury hobby products. It's not an attempt to "collapse" them. I don't know where you read into me thinking that's possible as one dude on a furry forum. I certainly don't and don't want to see it happen. lol


----------



## Mop (Dec 19, 2020)

Judge Spear said:


> Your posts imply the goofy assumption that I'm trying to jumpstart some cause when I've already stated before you came in here on the defense that isn't the purpose. It takes no effort for a person to not buy luxury hobby products. It's not an attempt to "collapse" them. I don't know where you read into me thinking that's possible as one dude on a furry forum. I certainly don't and don't want to see it happen. lol


Conversations like this have been had on forums and videos all over the internet, your opinion isn't that of "one dude on a furry forum lol". And while it doesn't take effort to not buy Nintendo products, making a point of not buying their products because of their actions is the dictionary definition of boycott.

Also like I said, which was conveniently left out of my quoted message:


Mop said:


> Also, whether this specific thread is a call to arms in boycotting Nintendo isn't what I was talking about; it's the pervasive outrage culture within threads and spaces like this about companies like EA, Blizzard, Disney (and now Nintendo, etc.) that I was criticising. Some people, observable within this thread as well as elsewhere, think that these big companies are dying due to the outrage they've generated in niche communities like this.



And to be even more clear, the "you" in my initial post, when calling this behaviour out in the first place, was intended to be plural and not directed at specifically you. I was not accusing you of attempting to collapse Nintendo, I was instead criticising a wide group of people within spaces like this in general of acting as if these big companies are close to ruin (EA, Disney, Blizzard, etc.) due to online anger and boycotts. But I also think that these almost biyearly cancelling of companies by nerd-culture communities, frequently for things not even that egregious, is stupid.


----------



## Baalf (Dec 23, 2020)

Marco Polio said:


> Their latest Pokemon games and the….awful character picks to participate in smash, was already enough for me to know Nintendo is falling down to total retardation



Can I just complain about Corrin from fire emblem for a moment? Honestly, he was part of the reason I did not buy the last three characters for Smash Brothers 4, and this complaint is probably old and it's too late for me to do so, but many people kept telling me that I should like the character because he isn't human, which him being one, as well as six out of the seven characters being one, only one of which wasn't depicted in a generic anime style, was a big complaint I had with the character oh, and they kept directing me at to his Dragon form. Right now, I just want to complain about his Dragon form.





What is that? That's your dragon? This ugly, bizarre, confusing, emotionless Eldritch Horror? What is Nintendo's obsession with trying to ruin dragons? It seems like, not just in Fire Emblem, but in Pokemon as well, they have been actively trying to make their dragon's more bizarre and bogus.

Say what you want about Charizard and Dragonite oh, I personally liked their designs because they were simple and to the point. Beyond that, it just felt like Nintendo was trying to add more and more things to their dragons to make them more and more Awkward. You probably might have Dracovish on your Pokemon Showdown team, but do you have him on your team because you think he looks cool? Does anyone think he looks cool? Again, why are Dragon becoming more and more bizarre looking?


----------



## Stratelier (Dec 23, 2020)

BennyJackdaw said:


> That's your dragon? This ugly, bizarre, confusing, emotionless Eldritch Horror?





BennyJackdaw said:


> ...why are Dragons becoming more and more bizarre looking?


Hahah, I absolutely said the same thing about Sony* and Capcom* dragons during the PS1 era.



Spoiler: Guess the games I'm referring to



*Sony: _The Legend of Dragoon_
*Capcom: _Breath of Fire IV_ (and only #4)


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 26, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> I'm a Sony fan


Sony is even worse than Nintendo and their BS is more apparent.


Stratelier said:


> But were they actually? Fan projects tend to start and remain small, so it's generally only when one goes viral/mainstream that a company actually steps in to shut it down (or in rarer cases, officially license it).


Mother 3 has male/male kissing and drag queens, Something Nintendo cannot bring over due to it's policies. It's not something like Pokemon Black & White 1 where you had a gay hiker and they changed his dialog to make it less creepy.


Judge Spear said:


> That was a fake replica. Either way, the situation around the Etika Joycons is developing and apparently the ones who made them weren't the most honest people. So I'm letting that argument die. Nintendo can have that.
> 
> As for the JoyCons, there's third party controllers that are better, yes. Believe me, I know, I have *seven* of them.
> 
> But the single richest company in Japan can do better than to release something objectively faulty and not address it. It's ridiculous to have to buy additional controllers (that can't attach to the Switch) because Nintendo doesn't want to make what you paid $300 for work properly for the long haul. If I have to play in table top mode or console mode all the time to use my _good _controllers, that effectively destroys the entire point of the damn thing.


You're right on that, Seeing how the Switch was rushed out.


ZebraDrugs said:


> I have no idea if this is a popular opinion or not but: Why do i have to pay for online gaming? They have more than enough money as we can all see.


Sony and Microsoft does THE SAME THING HOW IS THIS A SURPRISE TO YOU? 


Toby_Morpheus said:


> It hasn't gotten much better since Wii


Wii U has better HD visuals, More characters, Free online and no tripping.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 26, 2020)

Marco Polio said:


> Their latest Pokemon games and the….awful character picks to participate in smash, was already enough for me to know Nintendo is falling down to total retardation


Pokemon is Gamefreak and Smash's FE wanking is Sakurai's doing.


BennyJackdaw said:


> Can I just complain about Corrin from fire emblem for a moment?


Fire Emblem is Intelligent Systems doing, Not Nintendo's.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 28, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> Wii U has better HD visuals, More characters, Free online and no tripping.


Wasn't a comment about any of those.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 28, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Wasn't a comment about any of those.


So why are you implying that it didn't matter?


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 28, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> So why are you implying that it didn't matter?


I said the NETCODE isn't any better than back during Wii.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 28, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> I said the NETCODE isn't any better than back during Wii.


You're wrong again, Since the WiiU's was great for most parts.


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 28, 2020)

Imperial Impact said:


> You're wrong again, Since the WiiU's was great for most parts.


Whatever you say.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 29, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Whatever you say.


Are you blaming Nintendo your own shitty internet setup?


----------



## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Here’s what I got to say...

Who cares at this point? Nintendo had always been Nintendo for decades and people are still treating this as something new. I always hear people saying they’ll boycott Nintendo for their business practices yet still support them for their NSO service and games. Look at the whole #FreeMelee uproar. That quickly got shot down when Sephiroth was announced and now it’s not much of a big thing anymore.

I swear, Nintendo fans are one of the worst fanbases I have ever experienced. So much that every time Nintendo breathes, there’s always something complaining at the things they had done for many years. “Nintendo hates fangames!” Yeah, we have known that for more than 200 posts about it in the fast. About how Nintendo goes after people uploading their music, homebrewing their systems, emulating pirated games, etc.

And no, they shouldn’t be like Valve or Sega. They have every right to protect their IP. People still think Nintendo is against emulators, but that’s not entirely true. It’s mostly the roms you download from sites is what Nintendo is after. I and you know that saying that you own those games is completely BS as they’re now pretty expensive to buy off from Ebay or Amazon. I am talking about Melee here. I highly doubt more than 1/4 of the community owns that game; worst is not showing any proof. Just holding a disc of it is not enough as everyone can use that pic.

Anywho, I love Nintendo and will always support them. I really don’t care what they do as long as they published good games. If it seems like I’m defending them, then so be it.


----------



## Davedd (Dec 30, 2020)

Yes


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> It’s mostly the roms you download from sites is what Nintendo is after.


Kind of funny since Nintendo, despite denial, was caught using roms found online in their virtual console games.
The copy of Super Mario Bros they used had the iNes header, which Nintendo didn't make lol


----------



## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Kind of funny since Nintendo, despite denial, was caught using roms found online in their virtual console games.
> The copy of Super Mario Bros they used had the iNes header, which Nintendo didn't make lol


No, that was proven false. The roms they used were from Animal Crossing in the GameCube. There is a source for that.









						Tomohiro Kawase might've been hired by Nintendo to put ROM headers into VC [Updated Dec. 1, 2018]
					

Update (December 1, 2018):    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Update (October 12, 2018):    and Follow-up 3: https://www.resetera.com/posts/13741800/  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...




					www.resetera.com


----------



## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> No, that was proven false. The roms they used were from Animal Crossing in the GameCube. There is a source for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











						Did Nintendo download a Mario ROM and sell it back to us?
					

Nintendo's stance on emulation has always been a rigid one. As far as the company is concerned, if you're downloading a…




					www.eurogamer.net
				





" The .NES header, originally created by Marat Fayzullin for his iNES emulator, is used to provide emulators with the necessary context needed to recreate a hardware setup that changed with each and every cartridge. Finding it in this Nintendo-published version of Super Mario Bros. felt like a sign we were heading in the right direction.

At this point I contacted Fayzullin himself, providing him with the files we'd obtained. He then compared this with various pirated Super Mario Bro. ROMs found online and discovered the ROM content was identical.

"There are minute differences between ROM dumps," explained Fayzullin. "Depending on the cartridge version and how it has been dumped. If you see that your .NES file DOES NOT match any of the ones found online, it is likely to be their own ROM dump. I have cut the ROM content out of the Wii file you sent me and it indeed matches the .NES file found online." "


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 30, 2020)

Mario is great... i have a switch


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> No, that was proven false. The roms they used were from Animal Crossing in the GameCube. There is a source for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From a rando on this forum:

"*Yep, the Virtual Console ROM does in fact originate from Animal Crossing. iNES header and all. In fact, all of the NES games in Animal Crossing have it, with the notable exception of Clu Clu Land D, which lacks a header entirely, starting with the "*NINTENDO-HVC*"*

It shows that Nintendo has been using iNes headers far longer than virtual console releases.


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Did Nintendo download a Mario ROM and sell it back to us?
> 
> 
> Nintendo's stance on emulation has always been a rigid one. As far as the company is concerned, if you're downloading a…
> ...


Eh, even if they actually did, at the end of the day, it’s their game. I don’t think it’s them being hypocritical about people downloading roms when they have every right to take them.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> Eh, even if they actually did, at the end of the day, it’s their game. I don’t think it’s them being hypocritical about people downloading roms when they have every right to take them.


Sure.
Hypocrisy is ok if...
Yeah, not buying it.


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 30, 2020)

Yeah they own the rights... they are the owners


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Sure.
> Hypocrisy is ok if...
> Yeah, not buying it.


If you want to think of it that way, then sure, go ahead, but know that these games are owned and licensed by Nintendo. They hve every right to take those sites down, like it or not. As I said before, it’s all old news and they will never stop.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> If you want to think of it that way, then sure, go ahead, but know that these games are owned and licensed by Nintendo. They hve every right to take those sites down, like it or not. As I said before, it’s all old news and they will never stop.


I don't really do the whole "Do as I say, not as I do"
It's a sign of really bad parenting.

If Nintendo doesn't like piracy, they just should have used their own headerless versions of games they've been keeping in their vault, either ripped from their own master carts or pulled from whatever storage device holding the master digital.

Using someone else's header, regardless of what it's on, is technically its own form of software piracy, considering it's code Nintendo never made but is utilizing in copies of games being sold.
It's just as bad as someone, say, selling a bootleg console with a bunch of games preloaded onto it.
Doesn't need to be of equal scale. Theft is theft.

If you really wanna go that route, at least stay consistent about it.


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> I don't really do the whole "Do as I say, not as I do"
> It's a sign of really bad parenting.
> 
> If Nintendo doesn't like piracy, they just should have used their own headerless versions of games they've been keeping in their vault, either ripped from their own master carts or pulled from whatever storage device holding the master digital.
> ...


To do that instead of taking it from sites that already did their work? I could see them taking the easy route of clamming those cites and re-releasing them. Might be wrong some people but it’s not illegal since they do own them in the first place. Plus, it’s a good business decision.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> To do that instead of taking it from sites that already did their work? I could see them taking the easy route of clamming those cites and re-releasing them. Might be wrong some people but it’s not illegal since they do own them in the first place. Plus, it’s a good business decision.


iNES emulation requires a license, per the iNES author's website.
Considering this, it can be assumed that the code in the ROMs are also under license, making the use of them dubious.


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> iNES emulation requires a license, per the iNES author's website.
> Considering this, it can be assumed that the code in the ROMs are also under license, making the use of them dubious.


It really doesn’t matter much at this point. So Nintendo had done some shady stuff and they’re also too C&D with their IP. It’s nothing new. As I said, they’ve been like that for decades and people still treated as a huge problem. We still buy and support their games in the end.

I mean, I know Nintendo isn’t perfect, as I do have a few issues at their practices, but in the end. I still like their games and services. And I think the general Nintendo audience doesn’t seem to care as well. I play fangames and even homebrew, but at least I understand the consequences of them. That’s why I don’t have any problem with Nintendo showing up and shutting them down.

I don’t blame them from protecting their IP, but what the online community should do is not advertise their sites and projects of Nintendo games, as that can lead to big issues. Seen that happened a lot. Especially AM2R, Pokemon Uranium, No Mario’s Sky, Mario 64 HD Remake, and Pokemon Prism.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> I don’t blame them from protecting their IP, but what the online community should do is not advertise their sites and projects of Nintendo games, as that can lead to big issues. Seen that happened a lot. Especially AM2R, Pokemon Uranium, No Mario’s Sky, Mario 64 HD Remake, and Pokemon Prism.


Sure.
Let's apologize for big corp punching down on fan projects made out of love and not for money.
Thumbs up.

You can love Nintendo for whatever reason, but you can't deny that more and more people are getting pissed.
Just hope Nintendo gets its head out of its ass so you don't become a minority, yeah?


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Sure.
> Let's apologize for big corp punching down on fan projects made out of love and not for money.
> Thumbs up.
> 
> ...


You do know they don’t want to risk having their IPs being jeopardized, right? Not only Nintendo, but Sony, Microsoft, and yes, even Sega. Remember that Streets of Rage 1 Remake from a fan? Yeah, Sega took that down. There was also the fanmade server and modded Halo Reach that was only for Russia on PC that Microsoft had to step in and take it down cause many people out of Russia was using it.

So yeah, it’s not just Nintendo, dude.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> So yeah, it’s not just Nintendo, dude.


Whataboutism

Nice


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Whataboutism
> 
> Nice


Pfft, whatever dude. I am done at this point. Nothing is gonna change and I highly doubt Nintendo will, so there’s that.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> Pfft, whatever dude. I am done at this point. Nothing is gonna change and I highly doubt Nintendo will, so there’s that.


lol take it easy


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> lol take it easy


I am taking it easy lol. Just not surprised how much beef people have with Nintendo.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> I am taking it easy lol. Just not surprised how much beef people have with Nintendo.


"Take it easy" is a colloquialism that means "Goodbye, have a nice day"


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> "Take it easy" is a colloquialism that means "Goodbye, have a nice day"


Could also mean that. Good talking to ya, then.


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## Stratelier (Dec 30, 2020)

LuxerHusku said:


> You do know they don’t want to risk having their IPs being jeopardized, right?


If you want the biggest example of an "IP" being jeopardized in the court of public opinion, look no further than the MPAA's old "X" rating.
No, really.
When the MPAA invented their rating system, they trademarked every label except "X", assuming at the time there couldn't _possibly_ _be any problems whatsoever_ with allowing film producers to self-apply the highest, most restrictive label in their system.  Until the pornography industry happened.  Not only did they self-apply the X rating they also expanded on it with "XX" and "XXX" labels, and over time the rating itself became culturally associated with porn films over its official intended meaning.  So the MPAA fixed it by creating a new label for the same rating (NC-17) _and trademarking it_, but it remains a poster-child story of what can potentially happen when a company doesn't apply the proper legal protections over something they created.

Now, of course the key word there is what can "potentially" happen -- the vast majority (90% and up) of fan projects just don't have the same potential to intrude on (let alone displace) the official product in the market of either customer opinion or customer wallets.  But that doesn't change the underlying legal principle of it any, does it now?

Again with respect to ROMs an emulators, Nintendo's biggest gripe is how emulators generally cannot play an authorized copy of the game straight off an official disc or cartridge (or digital purchase), instead requiring the intermediate step of "dumping" (copying) the code and assets into a separate file.  The _whole point_ of copyright is controlling who gets to make and distribute copies of something, but digital media is fundamentally different from physical media in its basic ability to be copied and distributed.


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## LuxerHusku (Dec 30, 2020)

Stratelier said:


> If you want the biggest example of an "IP" being jeopardized in the court of public opinion, look no further than the MPAA's old "X" rating.
> No, really.
> When the MPAA invented their rating system, they trademarked every label except "X", assuming at the time there couldn't _possibly_ _be any problems whatsoever_ with allowing film producers to self-apply the highest, most restrictive label in their system.  Until the pornography industry happened.  Not only did they self-apply the X rating they also expanded on it with "XX" and "XXX" labels, and over time the rating itself became culturally associated with porn films over its official intended meaning.  So the MPAA fixed it by creating a new label for the same rating (NC-17) _and trademarking it_, but it remains a poster-child story of what can potentially happen when a company doesn't apply the proper legal protections over something they created.
> 
> ...


Again, they don’t want to risk it. You see people had been leaning more to Melee and dropping Ultimate all because of the Slippi mod and better netcode to play online. Of course, you can say that Nintendo should start fixing their netcode, but I am sure it’s not as easy as it sounds. Then people pirating the game is another major issue for them cause piracy.

You can definitely have fan projects take over official titles, and it does rarely happen, but still Nintendo is very sensitive about it and doesn’t want to risk loosing money. Seems not likely, but they’re just don’t wanna let it happen.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Dec 30, 2020)

Know what happens when people aren't allowed to make fan art, games, etc?
People get angry.
And when people get angry, they stop caring about stuff.
And when people stop caring about stuff, the company loses money.

Nobody is leaving Ultimate just because Dolphin has rollback netcode in the form of Slippi AND if fans can come together in their off time and implement rollback netcode into games, Nintendo should surely see that there's a huge hole in the market and be able to fill it.

If Nintendo actually had good netcode, people'd want to play their game more.

Shit, GGPO rollback is open source and could be implemented under MIT license, which is free.





						GGPO - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Trevorbluesquirrel (Jan 4, 2021)

TrishaCat said:


> being the disney of video games isn't a good thing lol
> Disney is kinda awful too. Like they COULD turn a blind eye to some of these things or even support it; SEGA supports fanworks a lot as an example.
> 
> Actually yes! A fan recently remade the Zelda CDi games to be playable on Windows PC.
> ...


Actually, I found the proper links, and got the games to work! Thanks so much for the tip! Now I ain't got to keep fiddlin' with the real CDI!


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