# Petition Baylor university to allow glbt group on campus-



## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

In Texas, Baylor universities are THE colleges that cause anti-gay sentiments.  Basically they teach their students to hate anyone gay, bi, pan, lesbian, transgender to the point it is a witch hunt and even those who aren't are thrown out.
To them if a guy isn't wearing overalls, fixing his car and talking about football then that's reason enough to suspect he's gay.
To them if a woman doesn't get married, doesn't work and continuously pop out babies like a pez dispenser that's reason enough to supect she's a lesbian.
My local city's glbt groups and churches are petitioning like fucking crazy to get this college to allow a gsa.
Think about it for a second when you think of your average Texan hating gays, well this college is the college that breeds the bigots.
They teach their students to hate gays.
http://news.change.org/stories/baylor-university-blocks-lgbt-group-from-forming-on-campus
and yes the petition is still open.


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## Xenke (Mar 3, 2011)

The strange thing is that I can't relate because I've never met a Texan that hates gays. :/


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

Xenke said:


> The strange thing is that I can't relate because I've never met a Texan that hates gays. :/


 Then you have never met someone that goes to baylor.
tl;dr they're fucking nuts.


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## Aethze (Mar 3, 2011)

So what I gather from this is that many people that go to Baylor are basically stereotypical redneck Texans.


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## Tycho (Mar 3, 2011)

LGBTs: don't enroll at Baylor and discourage everyone you know from doing so.  You've got about as much of a chance of achieving anything resembling tolerance at Baylor as I do of winning a Nobel Prize.

Universities are businesses, attack them like they're businesses.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

Aethze said:


> So what I gather from this is that many people that go to Baylor are basically stereotypical redneck Texans.


 Where do you think the stereotype originated from?


Tycho said:


> LGBTs: don't enroll at Baylor and discourage everyone you know from doing so.  You've got about as much of a chance of achieving anything resembling tolerance at Baylor as I do of winning a Nobel Prize.
> 
> Universities are businesses, attack them like they're businesses.


 GLBT already do this, however Baylor universities are for profit schools that charge 10k a year.  So they have plenty of money.


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## Skittle (Mar 3, 2011)

My only issue is if they have a GSA, the meetings are going to be prime pickings for people to figure out who to go after.

I might be extremely paranoid though.


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## Tycho (Mar 3, 2011)

Skittle said:


> My only issue is if they have a GSA, the meetings are going to be prime pickings for people to figure out who to go after.
> 
> I might be extremely paranoid though.


 
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there AREN'T people out to get you.  Or them.


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## CAThulu (Mar 3, 2011)

Is Baylor affiliated with any religious organizations/ people (Focus on the Family, Harvest Ministries, etc)?  If so, then it's falling on deaf ears and that petition's going to do diddly-squat.

If it's only going to be heard by the state of Texas that petition is going to be filed under 'trash'.

If it goes federal...then maybe it has a chance.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

CAThulu said:


> Is Baylor affiliated with any religious organizations/ people (Focus on the Family, Harvest Ministries, etc)?  If so, then it's falling on deaf ears and that petition's going to do diddly-squat.
> 
> If it's only going to be heard by the state of Texas that petition is going to be filed under 'trash'.
> 
> If it goes federal...then maybe it has a chance.


Baylor schools are southern baptist recognised, if you aren't southern baptist they won't let you go to school there.
 Also when Texas made the law against gay marriage they gave a ton of money to the lobbyists.
They officially support Focus on the Family, and Harvest Ministries as well as one ministry specifically towards jews saying that they don't go to heaven.
Honestly just having *one *baylor university allow a glbt group would put a massive hole in the anti-gay rights movement in Texas.
It may not change anything in the short run, but it'd get the ball moving metaphorically.


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## Tycho (Mar 3, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Baylor schools are southern baptist recognised, if you aren't southern baptist they won't let you go to school there.
> Also when Texas made the law against gay marriage they gave a ton of money to the lobbyists.
> They officially support Focus on the Family, and Harvest Ministries as well as one ministry specifically towards jews saying that they don't go to heaven.
> Honestly just having *one *baylor university allow a glbt group would put a massive hole in the anti-gay rights movement in Texas.
> It may not change anything in the short run, but it'd get the ball moving metaphorically.


 
A paper cat chasing an asbestos mouse through Hell has better odds than GLBTs fighting with Baylor.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

Tycho said:


> A paper cat chasing an asbestos mouse through Hell has better odds than GLBTs fighting with Baylor.


 Even if it's a unwinnable fight I still fight for glbt rights.


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## CAThulu (Mar 3, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Baylor schools are southern baptist recognised, if you aren't southern baptist they won't let you go to school there.
> Also when Texas made the law against gay marriage they gave a ton of money to the lobbyists.
> They officially support Focus on the Family, and Harvest Ministries as well as one ministry specifically towards jews saying that they don't go to heaven.
> Honestly just having *one *baylor university allow a glbt group would put a massive hole in the anti-gay rights movement in Texas.
> It may not change anything in the short run, but it'd get the ball moving metaphorically.




Oh F**k.  You're dealing with the very assholes I won't touch with a ten foot pole (or will punch in the face, depending on mood).  I fight for GBLT rights, but not against these idiots.  Any plea for treating GBLT like the human beings they are gets ignored by this group, and they can do so under freedom of religion.   Until human rights start trumping religious rights, Baylor's not going to change.

But I wish you the best of luck in this.   Prove me wrong, Cannon ^^;


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

CAThulu said:


> Oh F**k.  You're dealing with the very assholes I won't touch with a ten foot pole (or will punch in the face, depending on mood).  I fight for GBLT rights, but not against these idiots.  Any plea for treating GBLT like the human beings they are gets ignored by this group, and they can do so under freedom of religion.   Until human rights start trumping religious rights, Baylor's not going to change.
> 
> But I wish you the best of luck in this.   Prove me wrong, Cannon ^^;


 That's just the sort of person I am, even against these people I still fight for glbt rights.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Mar 3, 2011)

Yeah, good luck with getting a private Baptist university to do that.


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## Fay V (Mar 3, 2011)

As much as I dislike Baylor (my sister went there and I think it fucked her up) I'm not sure you'll get anywhere with this. Baylor is not a state school, it's private, not only is it private but it is very religious. I recall my sister became firmly baptist from going there. 

My point is, a petition doesn't seem like the best solution here, the school has a religious atmosphere that does not accept gays, either they allow LGBT and those poor kids are stuck in this place with little to no support, or they say "no fuck you" 

Making people aware of this problem and not giving money to the school or enrolling is the better option. Seriously administration doesn't give a shit about kids, they want money. If you make a big show of not giving money to the school, others will not give them money, and things will change.


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## HyBroMcYenapants (Mar 3, 2011)

How many universities does this country have again?


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## Fay V (Mar 3, 2011)

HyBroMcYenapants said:


> How many universities does this country have again?


 10


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> As much as I dislike Baylor (my sister went there and I think it fucked her up) I'm not sure you'll get anywhere with this. Baylor is not a state school, it's private, not only is it private but it is very religious. I recall my sister became firmly baptist from going there.
> 
> My point is, a petition doesn't seem like the best solution here, the school has a religious atmosphere that does not accept gays, either they allow LGBT and those poor kids are stuck in this place with little to no support, or they say "no fuck you"
> 
> Making people aware of this problem and not giving money to the school or enrolling is the better option. Seriously administration doesn't give a shit about kids, they want money. If you make a big show of not giving money to the school, others will not give them money, and things will change.


 GLBT already for the most part don't go there.  Even if we can't win this, why not?


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## Fay V (Mar 3, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> GLBT already for the most part don't go there.  Even if we can't win this why not?


 Because like I said, what do you have to gain? they allow LGBT, are they going to support anyone? I doubt it. 

Honestly, and this will make me sound like a bitch, but I don't think they care is GLBT people don't go to the school. You want to really hurt them and that means you need to get the general population on your side. Make a fuss, get some state and national attention. Show how they are bastards. 
when the general public thinks "wow those are bastards" that is a hit to the university they do not want. it shines poorly on them and their alumni.


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## Tycho (Mar 3, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> GLBT already for the most part don't go there.  Even if we can't win this, why not?


 
You'd be basically squaring off with the Baptist churches and the entirety of evangelical Christianity.  You might as well try to sink an aircraft carrier with a thrown rock.  Read: waste of effort and time.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Because like I said, what do you have to gain? they allow LGBT, are they going to support anyone? I doubt it.
> 
> Honestly, and this will make me sound like a bitch, but I don't think they care is GLBT people don't go to the school. You want to really hurt them and that means you need to get the general population on your side. Make a fuss, get some state and national attention. Show how they are bastards.
> when the general public thinks "wow those are bastards" that is a hit to the university they do not want. it shines poorly on them and their alumni.


 The general population does think they're bastards, here generally if someone's grandpa went to baylor, then the dad went to baylor and the son went to baylor.
If someone in their family doesn't they'll harass them until they do.


Tycho said:


> You'd be basically squaring off with the Baptist churches and the entirety of evangelical Christianity.  You might as well try to sink an aircraft carrier with a thrown rock.   Read: waste of effort and time.


 "What is faith but persistent hope in the fact of relentless doubt?"
Actually advocacy and fighting for equality is in my blood, it's just that my grandma fucked it up and stopped the trend cause rather than spend her inherited wealth on helping others she went, "Ahhh yeah, time to buy some shit"
I know realistically speaking we won't win this fight, but I'm not the sort of person to call it quits cause I know I'll lose.


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## Aethze (Mar 4, 2011)

Sometimes the battles that need to be fought are losing battles. Simply fighting may bring the attention necessary to move things forward.

However, it makes me wonder, how many colleges in the U.S. are almost the same as Baylor? If it's a lot then there will most likely need to be many more petitions like this at those places and that will possibly take more support than there is to offer.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Aethze said:


> Sometimes the battles that need to be fought are losing battles. Simply fighting may bring the attention necessary to move things forward.
> 
> However, it makes me wonder, *how many colleges in the U.S. are almost the same as Baylor?* If it's a lot then there will most likely need to be many more petitions like this at those places and that will possibly take more support than there is to offer.


 A whole fucking bunch.


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## Lobar (Mar 4, 2011)

IIRC Baylor is also home to one of the two biggest "Intelligent Design" cranks in the country (I forgot which though, Behe or Dembski).  So yeah, shining beacon of wisdom, that lot.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Lobar said:


> IIRC Baylor is also home to one of the two biggest "Intelligent Design" cranks in the country (I forgot which though, Behe or Dembski).  So yeah, shining beacon of wisdom, that lot.


 Dembski


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## Aethze (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> A whole fucking bunch.



That's what I figured. Well, good luck with this, I hope you get what looking to get.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Aethze said:


> That's what I figured. Well, good luck with this, I hope you get what looking to get.


 The problem is cowards that only metaphorically fight battles they know they can win.
The gay right movement doesn't need people that turn tail at any loss, but leaders with balls of steel.


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## Aethze (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> The problem is cowards that only metaphorically fight battles they know they can win.
> The gay right movement doesn't need people that turn tail at any loss, but leaders with balls the size of bowling balls.



That's the problem with any movement or revolution, a lack of leadership and dedicated support will bring about the defeat of any group. And that's why I'm saying good luck because for however much I want you to succeed, a lack of support, simply because this may obviously be a losing battle, may doom it to fail.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Aethze said:


> That's the problem with any movement or revolution, a lack of leadership and dedicated support will bring about the defeat of any group. And that's why I'm saying good luck because for however much I want you to succeed, a lack of support, simply because this may obviously be a losing battle, may doom it to fail.


 Which is sad to think about it, the gay rights movement's worst enemy is themselves.
"We have seen the enemy and it is us."


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## Adelio Altomar (Mar 4, 2011)

Hehehe, if you can get Baylor to even look at that petition, let alone allow a gay rights club, I'd have massive respect for you, man. Balyor's pretty notorious as a religious, right-wing school (funny that last year I kept getting brochures to go there).


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Adelio Altomar said:


> Hehehe, if you can get Baylor to even look at that petition, let alone allow a gay rights club, I'd have massive respect for you, man. Balyor's pretty notorious as a religious, right-wing school (funny that last year I kept getting brochures to go there).


 We got them to look at it, we have enough support they *had *to take us seriously.
We're being a pain in their ass.
The waco glbt community is completely united.
Basically my school has a gsa, which is affiliated and works with on a regular basis MCC and we both do so with metropolitan community church and we do so wit the high school's gsa... Well you get the point.


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## Adelio Altomar (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> We got them to look at it, we have enough support they *had *to take us seriously.
> We're being a pain in their ass.


 
Methinks you're not a big enough pain in their ass. Want lessons?


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Adelio Altomar said:


> Methinks you're not a big enough pain in their ass. Want lessons?


 I just moved to waco two months ago.
I'm helping them brainstorm, right now the idea I am putting forth is to make a unofficial off campus gsa club for baylor within walking distance.  The second part of the plan is so that if the members get kicked out they'll be able to sue the school.


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## Aethze (Mar 4, 2011)

So you have actually made some headway in this? Good job, that's not something that's easy to accomplish with sooper Christians.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

In the last three hours we've had 23 people sign it.
Come on guys, let's lift a dream.


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## Adelio Altomar (Mar 4, 2011)

Sounds like you've already got a decent plan set up to circumvent them for the time being. Good luck with this, then. Hopefully the struggle won't be too great. By the way, signed the petition (not surprising for a guy from Austin :V). :3


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> In the last three hours we've had 23 people sign it.
> Come on guys, let's lift a dream.


 
What dream?  Forcing a private institution to do something to make you feel better about yourself?

Petitioning a private school to let people in that they don't want is just as selfish as the people you're petitioning against.

Take your 23 people, build a bridge, and get over it.

If you really want to get up in arms about something, be pissed off at Brigham Young for expelling a student athlete for admitting he had consensual sex with his girlfriend (not allowed on campus).


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## Airborne_Piggy (Mar 4, 2011)

Why the hell would you want to petition to go on campus? Who the fuck would want to go there?

Let religious nut-fucks be religious nut-fucks. The petition is only going to make them think "ARGH them gays and atheists are just trying to take our right to be fag-free, just like when they banned prayer!" It's not like any homo/bisexual would want to go there.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> If you really want to get up in arms about something, be pissed off at Brigham Young for expelling a student athlete for admitting he had consensual sex with his girlfriend (not allowed on campus).


 So you are telling me to stop caring about something that I could change and care about something I can't change?


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## Lobar (Mar 4, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Petitioning a private school to let people in that they don't want is just as selfish as the people you're petitioning against.


 
Brown v. BoE forced a lot of schools to let in people they didn't want.

edit: though there is a point in asking why we should fight to force a place like Baylor to stay relevant in the modern world


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## Aethze (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> So you are telling me to stop caring about something that I could change and care about something I can't change?



The point they're making is that Baylor is private for a reason, they couldn't get away with being the way they are if they were public.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Lobar said:


> Brown v. BoE forced a lot of schools to let in people they didn't want.
> 
> edit: though there is a point in asking why we should fight to force a place like Baylor to stay relevant in the modern world


 Just because you don't win doesn't it wasn't important.


Aethze said:


> The point they're making is that Baylor is private for a reason, they couldn't get away with being the way they are if they were public.


 Still no reason why not to try.

Cowards only fight battles they can win.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> So you are telling me to stop caring about something that I could change and care about something I can't change?



Explain to me how you can change Baylor any more than you can change Brigham Young.  Because that seems like a pretty arbitrary decision.



Lobar said:


> Brown v. BoE forced a lot of schools to let in people they didn't want.


 
Yeah, except Brown v. BoE dealt with a PUBLIC SCHOOL paid for by TAX-PAYER MONEY.

Baylor is a PRIVATE INSTITUTION of OPTIONAL HIGHER LEARNING.

Therefore Brown v. BoE has very little relevance to their policies and this thread.


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## Tycho (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> So you are telling me to stop caring about something that I could change and care about something I can't change?


 
Might be better to focus your efforts somewhere more likely to result in positive change.  Make sure everyone knows what kind of bigots run Baylor.  They're a business - get people to view them as BAD business and take their money elsewhere.  None of this is going to be terribly new to most people, though.

Baylor will ultimately doom itself as the rest of society progresses into a more tolerant age (hopefully), as immutable as religiously-backed hatred tends to be.  The bigots will hopefully (but not likely, given how history seems to pan out) dwindle, and Baylor will become irrelevant.  Either way they're pretty much beyond any kind of direct assault you can make on their ethics.


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## Aethze (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Still no reason why not to try.
> 
> Cowards only fight battles they can win.



Unfortunately, it's not so much that you can't win it's the point of forcing things on people who have privately organized an institution and are against you.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Explain to me how you can change Baylor any more than you can change Brigham Young.  Because that seems like a pretty arbitrary decision.


 Because the possible plan is a off-campus unofficial gsa that if members were expelled they would be able to sue the school for a shit ton of money.


Tycho said:


> Might be better to focus your efforts somewhere  more likely to result in positive change.  Make sure everyone knows what  kind of bigots run Baylor.  They're a business - get people to view  them as BAD business and take their money elsewhere.  None of this is  going to be terribly new to most people, though.
> 
> Baylor will  ultimately doom itself with the progression of society into a more  tolerant age (hopefully), as immutable as religiously-backed hatred  tends to be.


Except everyone knows they are bigots, it's that if your grandpa went to baylor, then your dad went to baylor and if you don't go to baylor you are going to be harassed until you do.


In short, I've done more than you, cause all you are doing is bitching.
Bitching =/= helping


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Because the possible plan is a off-campus unofficial gsa that if members were expelled they would be able to sue the school for a shit ton of money.


 
But there wouldn't be, because Baylor is a PRIVATE SCHOOL that sets their own rules.  You can't change who they do business with no different then you can force a car dealer to sell a car to someone with poor or no credit.  To do so goes against the very fact that they are a private institution with their own business plan.


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## Tycho (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Because the possible plan is a off-campus unofficial gsa that if members were expelled they would be able to sue the school for a shit ton of money.


 
On what grounds? If Baylor can say that they have violated a code of conduct that was laid out when they enrolled in the first place, it's a simple matter of "reserving the right to refuse service to anyone".  If they don't have something in their contract that says "We disapprove of this, and if you do it you will be expelled" regarding the GLBT expulsions you might have something to stand on, but I honestly doubt it.  They're bigots but they probably know all the legal crap they'll ever need to keep themselves from getting nailed for that kind of thing.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

So you are saying to be a coward?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> So you are saying to be a coward?


 
The fuck are you talking about?

Do you even know?


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## Tycho (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> So you are saying to be a coward?


 
Nope.  Just pick your battles wisely.  Nothing cowardly about that.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> The fuck are you talking about?
> 
> Do you even know?


 


Tycho said:


> Nope.  Just pick your battles wisely.  Nothing cowardly about that.


 Only a coward picks battles they know they can win.
Nothing worth having in life is easy, that includes glbt rights.


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## Xenke (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Only a coward picks battles they know they can win.
> Nothing worth having in life is easy, that includes glbt rights.


 
Win the easy battles first, then the hard ones. :/

Seems like common sense.


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## Lobar (Mar 4, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Yeah, except Brown v. BoE dealt with a PUBLIC SCHOOL paid for by TAX-PAYER MONEY.
> 
> Baylor is a PRIVATE INSTITUTION of OPTIONAL HIGHER LEARNING.
> 
> Therefore Brown v. BoE has very little relevance to their policies and this thread.


 
Legally, the distinction is obvious.  But you made a moral appeal to the selfishness of forcing a school to take in students it doesn't want, to which the matter of it being public or private makes little difference.


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Nope.  Just pick your battles wisely.  Nothing cowardly about that.



Absolutely this.  There is nothing wrong with choosing your battles carefully.  Going up against a huge private religious 'school' isn't bravery, nor is deciding not to go up against it cowardly.  

Instead of focusing your energy on a no win scenario (because the battleground isn't ready for this), focus on petitions that will help GBLTs in your state.  All across America people are fighting for same sex couples to marry, or even to have the same rights as heterosexual couples.  That has not been taken care of yet.  And it is far from a winnable fight, but it is gaining ground.   Does it make the people involved with it cowardly for not choosing what you perceive is a harder battle to fight?  No.  Nor does it make you any less brave to want to take on Baylor.

But you're ready for the battle of Gettysburg before the armies get there.  There's not much point at this time, especially with a privately run religious institution with damn good laywers who know how to twist the system for their own gain.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Win the easy battles first, then the hard ones. :/
> 
> Seems like common sense.


 Not when winning the easy battles and running from the hard battles makes you lose the war.


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## Xenke (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Not when


 
That when isn't now, nor will it be later.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Only a coward picks battles they know they can win.
> Nothing worth having in life is easy, that includes glbt rights.


 
And again, this is about you being self-righteous, not glbt rights.

No one is forcing gays to either attend college or are they forcing them to attend Baylor.  

If a state school were doing this or if this were a universal policy for Texas universities you'd have more ground to stand on when proclaiming this to be a battle about rights.

But at the end of the day, you're trying to invade a private business and force them to follow your personal code of ethics.  You are denying them their right to maintain a private institution, so take that into account before you start spouting off about "rights" as opposed to "privileges".

And in case you didn't know, going to college isn't a right.



Lobar said:


> But you made a moral appeal to the selfishness of forcing a school to take in students it doesn't want, to which the matter of it being public or private makes little difference.



In the context of the fact that Baylor is a private institution that can set its own rules as it pleases.


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## Tycho (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Only a coward picks battles they know they can win.


 
You know who says that? The jerks who get their asses kicked by "cowards".



CannonFodder said:


> Not when winning the easy battles and running from the hard battles makes you lose the war.


 
Now that's just nonsense.


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## Bambi (Mar 4, 2011)

Tycho said:


> *"1We disapprove of this, and if you do it you will be expelled" regarding the GLBT expulsions you might have something to stand on,* but I honestly doubt it.  *2They're bigots but they probably know all the legal crap they'll ever need to keep themselves from getting nailed for that kind of thing.*


*1.* And to expand on that: 

What most people forget is that a basic COC is all the legal networking a campus needs to determine, in a court, whether or not it's actions were a direct violation of someones constitutional liberties versus it's own student contracts. Regardless of consent, signature from the student or (have read/have not read/was not made aware/parents/co-signers, etc.) not, Baylor would win in a court of law on grounds that it did not violate someones constitutional rights because a student was served a campus handbook, a contract, etc., and voided them exclusively when they agreed to or accepted such terms upon enrollment.

On the other hand, you don't necessarily need something directly mentioned in order to invoke a punishment, so long as you're willing to draw out gray areas or basic outlines that are palatable to that universities viewpoints.

*2. *I disagree on this one point because Baylor, in any situation, would attempt to defend itself with it's social and student repertoire first, which means it has to justify it's actions through the presence of a supporting/non-supporting community.

EDIT: Reason being?

University+state+tax+county+other crap=good ole' boy system, plus an excellent defense against a successful litigation. See, mathematical models of game theory.

Continued: Assuming it had no grounds to remove a student simply due to their sexuality, or block a group from forming, than it will almost always appeal to the community, and that can be thwarted -IF- the appropriate stiles have been laid.


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

I think we're all in agreement here on how we feel about this petition, and we've said as much to CannonFodder who insists that anyone who does not see it her way is a coward.

I call for a thread lock before someone says something they're going to regret in the morning


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

Bambi where the fuck have you been dude?


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

No kidding!   Bambi, good to see ya!


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## Bambi (Mar 4, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Bambi where the fuck have you been dude?


I've been ... places. >.>


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Xenke said:


> That when isn't now, nor will it be later.


 Lemme rephrase this the coward way out would be for the gay community to only seek gay marriage in the west coast, the cowards way out would've been fine with don't ask don't tell, the cowards way out would have not to try and legalize gay marriage at all and just have all gays move to the states where it's already legal.
The gay rights movement is a long term goal, not some thing you buy a wristband for and all of a sudden magically there's gay rights.  The gay rights movement is a series of difficult next to impossible battles one after the other.


Term_the_Schmuck said:


> And again, this is about you being self-righteous, not glbt rights.


 It's about equality damnit.


CAThulu said:


> I call for a thread lock before someone says something they're going to regret in the morning


My thread.

It stays open.


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

Kay.

So Bambi...are you gonna leave us all in the dark on where you've been? ^^;


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## Xenke (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Lemme rephrase this the coward way out would be for the gay community to only seek gay marriage in the west coast, the cowards way out would've been fine with don't ask don't tell, the cowards way out would have not to try and legalize gay marriage at all and just have all gays move to the states where it's already legal.
> The gay rights movement is a long term goal, not some thing you buy a wristband for and all of a sudden magically there's gay rights.  The gay rights movement is a series of difficult next to impossible battles one after the other.


 
But why not fucking win the easier battles, shifting more of the publics opinion, winning people over to your side, etc., AND THEN go try changing the views of people deadset on opposing you.

Wouldn't you agree that makes A LOT more sense?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> It's about equality damnit.


 
What equality?

We've already established that people don't have a right to go to college, especially not one that's privately run.

So how is this a fight for equality?

And while we're on the subject of equality, stop going after just Baylor for not accepting GLBT students and add on every single private school that's all girls, all boys, and so on and so forth.

And Bambi stop being mysterious.  WTF happened bro?


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## Bambi (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Lemme rephrase this the coward way out would be for the gay community to only seek gay marriage in the west coast, the cowards way out would've been fine with don't ask don't tell, the cowards way out would have not to try and legalize gay marriage at all and just have all gays move to the states where it's already legal.


You know what's completely ironic? There were a lot of cowards that resorted to accepting those things, but maybe people weren't so much cowards as they were patient. Remember, if you're trying to fight for something which is by no means unethical, you want to lay the social groundwork to where when people consider your struggle, you have some credulity.

Part of that can be earned by what seems to be cowardice, but is instead, more or less an appreciation of things moving forward, however slow. I do appreciate what you're doing.


CannonFodder said:


> If you want glbt equality not all battles are easy, nor is everyone accepting, there is a chance of getting harassed.  The gay rights movement is a long term goal, not some thing you buy a wristband for and all of a sudden magically there's gay rights.  The gay rights movement is a series of difficult next to impossible battles one after the other, there is no "easy" battles


Actually, they're about to get easier. One thing people fail to see is that while the internet can strangely be a place for all of the worlds sociopaths, it's still home to sound rapid-fire ideas, opinions, raves, and tirades from all corners of the worlds most bright or least bright; all of the things necessary to create dialogue where conversation was usually reserved to the powerful and rabidly partisan, is actually what brought the Bush Administration to make some social compromises, however limited, and is/was/still is responsible for Obama being a more socially integrated president than others past.

You can thank a lot of people out there, not just on the internet, but out on the streets as well, for taking advantage of this new social climate to successfully argue to power a review of it's previous policies of DADT. More or less, and to correct myself a bit, all of that was a demonstration of how where we think cowardice is in place, it's actually just creeping action.

EDIT:



CAThulu said:


> Kay.
> 
> So Bambi...are you gonna leave us all in the dark on where you've been? ^^;


Work, drawing, gaming, paint-balling ... stuff, but yeah. School. Can't pay for college given the economic situation now, but I didn't quit myself. Bought up some books and now I'm tutoring myself with the help of others (financial reasons) while I wait for a few goodies to go through.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

...holy shit 294 guests wtf?


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## Bambi (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> ...holy shit 294 guests wtf?


No log-ins, I'm assuming.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Bambi said:


> No log-ins, I'm assuming.


 guests
Where did they come from?

Hey one of you people browsing can you tell me what in the world is going on?


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## Xenke (Mar 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> guests
> Where did they come from?


 
FA is down.

People are bored without their porn.


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

Bambi said:


> Work, drawing, gaming, paint-balling ... stuff, but yeah. School. Can't pay for college given the economic situation now, but I didn't quit myself. Bought up some books and now I'm tutoring myself with the help of others (financial reasons) while I wait for a few goodies to go through.



Nice *G*.  Glad to hear you're keeping up with your studies even if you can't go to school at the moment.   I hope that changes soon.  By goodies I think you mean commission sales, yes?


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

Xenke said:


> FA is down.
> 
> People are bored without their porn.


 Good point





Hey guests sign the petition.


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

Oh yeah....the 300 guests thing.   FA is having issues.  The same numbers are popping up all over the board.  I wouldn't worry.  Like Xenke said, people are probably bored with their porn


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## Bambi (Mar 4, 2011)

CAThulu said:


> Nice *G*.  Glad to hear you're keeping up with your studies even if you can't go to school at the moment.   I hope that changes soon.  By goodies I think you mean commission sales, yes?


LOL commissions on my retarded crap? NAH!!

@Guests lurking: You know, you can post with the rest of us now, right?


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## CAThulu (Mar 4, 2011)

Bambi said:


> LOL commissions on my retarded crap? NAH!!
> 
> @Guests lurking: You know, you can post with the rest of us now, right?



I was going to go see for myself what kind of stuff you do, but FA is down :/


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## CannonFodder (Mar 4, 2011)

And not a single one of them signed the petition...
godamnit


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