# I have a weird sense of humor. Should I do more like this?



## CatterHatter (May 11, 2013)

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3323760/

I drew this years ago, but I always look back at it now again. It really stands out in my gallery since it is the only thing like it.
I think it would be pretty funny to draw more disturbing yet silly art like this. I'd just like to know if anyone agrees because honestly I don't want to put more on my plate unless there is interest in it. It does not have to stay traditional like this. I could do digital or a bit of both.

If there is interest, I'd also like some suggestions! I could go any direction with this so long as it stays in the mix-mash of creepy/funny/somehow cute/abomination range. Also, it can be inspired from any source such as anime, furry, video games, or internet garbage. Whatever.

Help me make more WTFs!

Even if it is a resounding no I will go back to this idea eventually. It is just interest will energize me to do it sooner.


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## Arshes Nei (May 11, 2013)

I think you should draw and practice more. What direction you take in themes doesn't matter so much. It's your art, your path to improvement.


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## CatterHatter (May 11, 2013)

I think I should draw and practice more too, and I am. I already have themes that I am doing that are not based on what other people want. I'm sure you mean well, but your statements are not helpful. I was asking for interest in this theme. If you have no interest your answer is no. If you have some, then it is yes and you can give me suggestions on what you'd like to see along these lines.

I actually like to do stuff to please others now and again if I do it on the side. That's why I want to know if people like this radish kid.


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## Taralack (May 11, 2013)

Not my thing, but you're welcome to do whatever you want, you're the artist.


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## Ansitru (May 11, 2013)

Personally, I don't get the joke because the picture doesn't read clearly.
What is the figure doing? What the hell is going on with what I think is the arm, but looks oddly displaced to be recognizable as one at first glance?


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## Teal (May 11, 2013)

Is his arm backwards on purpose?


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## CatterHatter (May 12, 2013)

Heh, wow... I guess not.
The picture does not read clearly? It says, Poke. :V
There is no joke really. He's just creepy and freaky yet sort of cute-ish features like a child or doll would have... in a disturbing fashion...
Some people find weird and disturbing as funny. I do sometimes. Cause you go "OH GOD what is that?" and then laugh at it.

For the actual arm placement, yes, it is backwards on purpose. I envision him able to move without  joint restriction because he's a cartoon. That way he can do weird crazy  shit to scare children and make them shovel vegetables in their mouths  out of fear of contortionist veggie monsters and being poked to death. This particular image I thought his arms could wind back all the way behind his head and he could poke people like a bull if he used both hands. I  just don't draw toony or anime shit all that well. That's why I want to go  back and do a revamp to see what happens. This is several years old  after all.

Look, he is just a radish/onion kid who appears crazy or even evil to get children to eat their vegetables. It does not have to make a ton of sense which is why I put WTF in the tags. It is supposed to be confusing. His arm is thick, and his hand looks like a misshapen radish. I could draw him with his body spinning like Taz or his head peeling open to show a tap dancing cauliflower inside.

It is actually kind of ridiculous having to explain all this considering what is out there and what some people draw...
I'm just messing around with an idea.
I really don't feel like responding to much else unless you are actually helping with a no or yes and some suggestions.
So far this has been some sort of sad opposite of help to me other than me imagining him spinning or a tap dancing cauliflower living in his head. Thanks for that I guess?


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

CatterHatter said:


> Heh, wow... I guess not.
> The picture does not read clearly? It says, Poke. Even though the o is really dark. He is just a radish kid who appears crazy/evil to get children to eat their vegetables.
> 
> As for his arm: Yes. It is backwards on purpose. I envision him able to move without joint restriction because he's a cartoon. That way he can do weird crazy shit to scare children and make them shovel vegetables in their mouths out of fear of contortionist veggie monsters and being poked to death. I just don't draw toony/anime shit all that well. That's why I want to go back and do a revamp to see what happens. This is several years old after all.



It does not read clearly because the composition is off and the arm doesn't seem like a stylistic choice, but more like a beginner's mistake.
Same goes for the hand, which lacks form and looks more like a "blob" if anything.

While it sucks to hear this, I reckon: you need a good basis in anatomy and life-drawing before you can start "bending reality" and adding stylistic alterations.
And this is coming from someone who avoided doing life-drawings and anatomy-practice for a long, long time until I noticed I only improved when I buckled down and worked on it.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Like I said, you have to knuckle down and practice more. If you have to ask what kinds of things you should be drawing, it means you haven't drawn enough.  It may sound funny, but when you realize how much stuff you need to practice on - that Art Block thing is a myth. You realize you need to do more studies and the more you do, the more you realize you have less time for a lot of everything else.


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## CatterHatter (May 12, 2013)

If I wanted critique or input on art I'd have put it in the Tutorials and Critiques subforum. 
No one has followed my OP except for Toraneko. By saying a "no" in "not my thing." I thank him for that.

I put TONS of thought into the composition and that freaking arm. I made it the best piece of art to ever grace FA or FAF. I'd say the internet if not for all the amazing memes. I am highly offended by you calling the radish hand of vicious poking a "blob". I know anatomy like the back of my hand! The proof is that I look at the back of my hand all the time, and it looks just like the radish hand of vicious poking. My style is so perfect it can never improve. Ansitru, you should be taking notes. I bet you'd learn a thing or two from how awesome my art is. Especially my older stuff because I was much better years ago. I have masterpieces from when I was 4. I know so because my mommy stuck it up on the fridge. She doesn't do that with any of my new art.


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## CatterHatter (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Like I said, you have to knuckle down and practice more. If you have to ask what kinds of things you should be drawing, it means you haven't drawn enough.  It may sound funny, but when you realize how much stuff you need to practice on - that Art Block thing is a myth. You realize you need to do more studies and the more you do, the more you realize you have less time for a lot of everything else.



You are so right. I don't know how I could ever be a good artist without two amazing advice givers like you to tell me all these things I could have never considered on my own. I'll go back to playing in my own feces now. I bet I could make some awesome art that way. It comes from real life and I practice shitting all the time I think I've gotten pretty good at it. But I might not get as good as you two Arshes and Ansitru!


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

If you post up a pic that has big fundamental flaws and need to ask "should I draw more stuff like this" It's like you coming up and asking if you look fat in this dress. But if you want to waste time coming up with banter and getting upset, I guess you can do that. Just because this forum says "Palette Town" it doesn't mean it's "Babysitting" either. It's just as likely you'll get more of a critique or a response WHY something isn't working or why it is.

I said that your question is irrelevant, and I gave you why. If you just need "yes" or "no" direction, I'm sure there's some magic 8 ball or randomizer website that can help you out.

But maybe if you actually decide to keep going you'll look back at this post and realize how juvenile you're being about the whole thing.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

CatterHatter said:


> If I wanted critique or input on art I'd have put it in the Tutorials and Critiques subforum.
> No one has followed my OP except for Toraneko. By saying a "no" in "not my thing." I thank him for that.
> 
> I put TONS of thought into the composition and that freaking arm. I made it the best piece of art to ever grace FA or FAF. I'd say the internet if not for all the amazing memes. I am highly offended by you calling the radish hand of vicious poking a "blob". I know anatomy like the back of my hand! The proof is that I look at the back of my hand all the time, and it looks just like the radish hand of vicious poking. My style is so perfect it can never improve. Ansitru, you should be taking notes. I bet you'd learn a thing or two from how awesome my art is. Especially my older stuff because I was much better years ago. I have masterpieces from when I was 4. I know so because my mommy stuck it up on the fridge. She doesn't do that with any of my new art.



You asked for input, you got input. Don't act like a child who can't handle critique.

Edit: Plus, you asked if you should do more stuff like this and I said no. 
Why? Because you lack understanding of the anatomy to actually make the piece come across as a cartoon that reads clearly. And your pieces will not come across as funny until you learn how to make them work, a.k.a by practising life-drawing and composition.


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## CatterHatter (May 12, 2013)

I did not read your responses. I don't need to. I saw critique and child and other words.
You gave me things I did not ask for. I have no problem with critique. It is just not what I'm looking for.
No more responses for either of you. Keep going all you like though. I don't care anymore.
Sorry I'm too frivolous for you bitches. I don't take myself as seriously as you two do.


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## Kalmor (May 12, 2013)

CatterHatter said:


> I did not read your responses. I don't need to. I saw critique and child and other words.
> You gave me things I did not ask for. I have no problem with critique. It is just not what I'm looking for.
> No more responses for either of you. Keep going all you like though. I don't care anymore.
> Sorry I'm too frivolous for you bitches. I don't take myself as seriously as you two do.


Cut it with that attitude. The two people you mentioned are trying to help you, and if you're going to ignore them then I see no other point in this thread.


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## CatterHatter (May 12, 2013)

Raptros said:


> Cut it with that attitude. The two people you mentioned are trying to help you, and if you're going to ignore them then I see no other point in this thread.



Gladly. Get rid of it. It is no help to me.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

CatterHatter said:


> I did not read your responses. I don't need to. I saw critique and child and other words.
> You gave me things I did not ask for. I have no problem with critique. It is just not what I'm looking for.
> No more responses for either of you. Keep going all you like though. I don't care anymore.
> Sorry I'm too frivolous for you bitches. I don't take myself as seriously as you two do.



People giving you a constructive critique are "bitches"? Oh dear god why do I even bother.
How old are you exactly? Scratch that. *MAN, YOU ARE **25. ACT LIKE IT.

*
 I mean, props for the gender-based slur. Four for you, sugartits. You go, sugartits, you go.


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## Zenia (May 12, 2013)

Well that escalated quickly. If you don't want input, don't ask for it. I would have to go along with Ansitru and don't post any more like that... it wasn't funny at all really. But as you aren't on my watch list, the drawings wouldn't show up in my Inbox so I don't really care what you do. If it makes you happy, then keep drawing them. You might improve.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Ok...

"Hey should I draw more of this"

"It's your art, do what you want, just draw more in general to improve"

"HEY MAN FUCK YOU!"


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ok...
> 
> "Hey should I draw more of this"
> 
> ...



I wonder what is up with all these types of people posting in this sub-forum lately, though.

"_I *hate* critique, better go ask for some critique!_ _*Wait*, you mean critique *isn't* asspats? *BAWWW**!*_"


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## Teal (May 12, 2013)

I feel like you're lying about the arm.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Well some topics got moved here, so....

But seriously why the hell are people getting their panties in a wad over just "Draw more" you're an artist, *that's what you should do*. I didn't even make a disparaging comment towards the work, I said it was simply that person's life, their path, do whatever is the most appealing. 

Was there a contest I missed that if the OP didn't draw more of that, they'd miss out on a scholarship or more youtube hits? Maybe their page view can go up and they can make an argument how important it is?


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

They weren't looking for asspats -_- jesus christ guys it's like you're *trying* to find a reason to mock other artists by giving them critique when it's not asked for.

They just wanted to know if this humor would actually tickle someone's fancy, that's it.

If lols, say "yes", if no lols, say "no". 

NOT

THAT

HARD


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## Schwimmwagen (May 12, 2013)

Regarding the OP's picture and if my opinion is worth anything (probably not, because it's negative) I would say that I have no idea what could possibly be funny in it. Even if it's some deep-down, subtle, and highly intelligent humour, I have to say that it's gone completely over my head.

Don't see why he bothered asking, though.


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## Kalmor (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> I wonder what is up with all these types of people posting in this sub-forum lately, though.
> 
> "_I *hate* critique, better go ask for some critique!_ _*Wait*, you mean critique *isn't* asspats? *BAWWW**!*_"


That's the state of FA now isn't it? There is hardly any critique on any of the pieces the artists I watch produce. Some goes with my own music. All I see is asspats everywhere. Is this because people are afraid of critiques? Is this because people are afraid_ to give_ critiques on the main site (through fear of causing upset)? Good job I have a few musicians in my Skype contacts that can give some at any time.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> They weren't looking for asspats -_- jesus christ guys it's like you're *trying* to find a reason to mock other artists by giving them critique when it's not asked for.



GTFO.

I didn't mock jack shit in the way you put it. 

I don't get why someone would come here and ask for and opinion and then not get happy when someone actually tells them why. That's not "oh look someone to pick on" that's someone else flipping their shit over getting more information.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> They weren't looking for asspats -_- jesus christ guys it's like you're *trying* to find a reason to mock other artists by giving them critique when it's not asked for.
> 
> They just wanted to know if this humor would actually tickle someone's fancy, that's it.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, are we reading the same thread? I told them the joke doesn't come across and I told them why.
They blew up. Hell, I could've gone much deeper in nitpick-mode, but I didn't.



Raptros said:


> That's the state of FA now isn't it? There is  hardly any critique on any of the pieces the artists I watch produce.  Some goes with my own music. All I see is asspats everywhere. Is this  because people are afraid of critiques? Is this because people are  afraid_ to give_ critiques on the main site (through fear of  causing upset)? Good job I have a few musicians in my Skype contacts  that can give some at any time.




I don't get why people would be afraid to give critiques. I love getting long, thoughtful critiques, even if they rip apart my work because it's full of flaws.
Not getting that type of critique is worse, as you don't know what to focus on and you'll plateau eventually.


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## Kalmor (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> I don't get why people would be afraid to give critiques. I love getting long, thoughtful critiques, even if they rip apart my work because it's full of flaws.
> Not getting that type of critique is worse, as you don't know what to focus on and you'll plateau eventually.


Indeed. I think that some people love their bubble of positivity and get really defensive when anything threatens it, be it a long well thought out critique or just a simple "(x) doesn't look right, try (whatever)". Generally, people don't want other people they just met to feel bad, and therefore won't give crits through fear it may be taken the wrong way. It's stupid and annoying I know.


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> GTFO.
> 
> I didn't mock jack shit in the way you put it.
> 
> I don't get why someone would come here and ask for and opinion and then not get happy when someone actually tells them why. That's not "oh look someone to pick on" that's someone else flipping their shit over getting more information.


You said "draw/practice more". That's not a yes or no answer.




Ansitru said:


> I'm sorry, are we reading the same thread? I told them the joke doesn't come across and I told them why.





Ansitru said:


> They blew up. Hell, I could've gone much deeper in nitpick-mode, but I didn't.



They didn't blow up after your initial response. After more of the same unhelpful responses to a question not asked THEN they got frustrated.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> They didn't blow up after your initial response. After more of the same unhelpful responses to a question not asked THEN they got frustrated.



They didn't get why the picture doesn't read clearly, so I told them again. The joke in the picture is not coming across and whether or not they like to hear this, it is because of underlying reasons that have been addressed, albeit shortly, in this thread and they still got their panties in a wad over it.

You can't expect someone to say "_Great joke, loved it! Do more!_" or "_Bad joke, hated it! Don't continue drawing that!_" if there's no joke to get from that piece due to a lack of a clear cartoon, which (again) has to do with the OP's lacking ability to draw a proper composition with believable anatomy.


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## Zenia (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> You said "draw/practice more". That's not a yes or no answer.


I read this thread more like "No, you don't have a weird sense of humor... or if you do, we can't tell because your picture doesn't make sense. Practice more so you can more clearly convey your idea and maybe others will understand it and also think it is weird/funny."


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> They didn't get why the picture doesn't read clearly, so I told them again. The joke in the picture is not coming across and whether or not they like to hear this, it is because of underlying reasons that have been addressed, albeit shortly, in this thread and they still got their panties in a wad over it.
> 
> You can't expect someone to say "_Great joke, loved it! Do more!_" or "_Bad joke, hated it! Don't continue drawing that!_" if there's no joke to get from that piece due to a lack of a clear cartoon, which (again) has to do with the OP's lacking ability to draw a proper composition with believable anatomy.


If there's nothing to get then say such. It's not believable anatomy because it's not supposed to be believable anatomy. Or do people now need to draw believable unbelievable anatomy in order to draw a joke?



Zenia said:


> I read this thread more like "No, you don't have a weird sense of humor... or if you do, we can't tell because your picture doesn't make sense. Practice more so you can more clearly convey your idea and maybe others will understand it and also think it is weird/funny."


They've already explained what the idea was and it still didn't make sense. Therefore it's not the drawing because even without the drawing, it wouldn't make any sense at all.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> If there's nothing to get then say such. It's not believable anatomy because it's not supposed to be believable anatomy. Or do people now need to draw believable unbelievable anatomy in order to draw a joke?



Except even unbelievable anatomy can be stretched to look "believable" in a cartoon-universe if you have a proper understanding of anatomy.
I'm not saying a joke only works when it's in full-blown realism and completely correct, but if you spend most of your time trying to figure out what the fuck is going with that arm and what looks to be a hand instead of being able to see it's a figure and then to try and get the joke, then I'm sincerely sorry but you need to practice that anatomy.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> You said "draw/practice more". That's not a yes or no answer.




I wasn't aware there was a poll demanding a "yes/no" answer.

I said it was up to the OP what to draw, but they should draw and practice more regardless. Guess this is too hard for you to understand. But then it's probably you being you again and looking for something to argue about, which is the ultimate irony in chiding others and accusing them to look for something to mock.


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Except even unbelievable anatomy can be stretched to look "believable" in a cartoon-universe if you have a proper understanding of anatomy.
> I'm not saying a joke only works when it's in full-blown realism and completely correct, but if you spend most of your time trying to figure out what the fuck is going with that arm and what looks to be a hand instead of being able to see it's a figure and then to try and get the joke, then I'm sincerely sorry but you need to practice that anatomy.


I didn't know cartoons like Adventure Time had "believable" anatomy but whatever.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> I didn't know cartoons like Adventure Time had "believable" anatomy but whatever.



Did you ever look at Adventure Time and spend half of your time wondering "_Where the fuck are the arms? Oh, I suppose that's a hand?_".

My guess is no, because the animators on that show simplified from a background of knowing proper anatomy and know what works. I also said, and I quote, since you seem to have missed that: "_"believable" in a cartoon-universe_". Meaning it's not supposed to be full-blown realism, but you should be able to recognize a hand as a hand and a leg as a leg. Which, guess what? With the drawings of Adventure Time, from what I've seen, is possible.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Did you ever look at Adventure Time and spend half of your time wondering "_Where the fuck are the arms? Oh, I suppose that's a hand?_".
> 
> My guess is no, because the animators on that show simplified from a background of knowing proper anatomy and know what works. I also said, and I quote, since you seem to have missed that: "_"believable" in a cartoon-universe_". Meaning it's not supposed to be full-blown realism, but you should be able to recognize a hand as a hand and a leg as a leg. Which, guess what? With the drawings of Adventure Time, from what I've seen, is possible.



And don't even forget with Adventure Time, they've shown in the show multiple times they can draw something more realistic. Animation simplifies itself for the point of making it easier when you got a large (or small staff) to work on numerous drawings that match up. Especially since time is a factor for producing a lot of work.  If everyone did their shit on Adventure Time in their own style, instead of understanding constraints and design simplification, that shit would be an utter mess.


People who make the excuse "cartooning isn't realism" usually bullshit themselves into taking shortcuts and not learning that animation really is a lot of work.


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Did you ever look at Adventure Time and spend half of your time wondering "_Where the fuck are the arms? Oh, I suppose that's a hand?_".
> 
> My guess is no, because the animators on that show simplified from a background of knowing proper anatomy and know what works. I also said, and I quote, since you seem to have missed that: "_"believable" in a cartoon-universe_". Meaning it's not supposed to be full-blown realism, but you should be able to recognize a hand as a hand and a leg as a leg. Which, guess what? With the drawings of Adventure Time, from what I've seen, is possible.


Right because wiggly arms is totally how arms work

maybe if someone had no bone structure.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Right because wiggly arms is totally how arms work
> 
> maybe if someone had no bone structure.



I'm sorry, did my entire post fly right over your head?
Edit: I mean, seriously. I want to believe you're joking but I fear you aren't.


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## Zenia (May 12, 2013)

But at least with the wiggly arms, you can tell they are arms. I didn't even know the white thing in the picture was supposed to be a hand until just now.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

I don't even know why Animation is being compared to a still/frame individual illustration right now. At least pictures of a still frame of work based off an animation has backing behind it where you can tell what is going on.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't even know why Animation is being compared to a still/frame individual illustration right now. At least pictures of a still frame of work based off an animation has backing behind it where you can tell what is going on.



Grasping at straws, most likely.
I'm also enjoying the delicious irony in the fact that you, Aleu my friend, are white-knighting. And I don't just mean perceived white-knighting.
You are actually excusing them of their badly drawn anatomy (though they can improve) by saying it's a style.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Well think of it this way. Even simplistic designs like Mickey Mouse, or Sonic the Hedgehog have design purpose to them. You can even say Southpark. Southpark was meant to be crude, but the reason you like it wasn't simply from one single illustration. They had a story. 

None of those designs would essentially hold up if they didn't serve the purpose elsewhere. If someone just drew Southpark without the backstory or purpose, people would probably have more of a negative reaction. If Family Circus or Calvin and Hobbes didn't have the comic strip, it wouldn't be on people's radar. Take the game away from Sonic, or the "Adventure" in Adventure time. 

But if you want to take away the motion aspect and just went with still frames like design.

Cereal mascots, keychain items. They have a purpose to them.

The OP's illustration doesn't serve the purpose intended.


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Grasping at straws, most likely.
> I'm also enjoying the delicious irony in the fact that you, Aleu my friend, are white-knighting. And I don't just mean perceived white-knighting.
> You are actually excusing them of their badly drawn anatomy (though they can improve) by saying it's a style.


Maybe to people who can't read.

I don't like their art nor do I get the joke. But I find it strange that I'm the only person who seems to understand what these "mysterious objects" were.
Also there's a difference between "white-knighting" and calling out bullshit as to what has been going on here.

pagos made an ass of himself and for some reason, people are more than willing to forgive him.

Catter posts an obtuse humored pictures asking if anyone else would find it amusing. Then people proceeded to bitch about the arm being backwards and thus the mess then proceed to blame the OP for getting mad for getting answers to a question not asked. As I said before, if the idea is dumb when explained, chances are, it's not the drawing. It's just a dumb idea.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Catter posts an obtuse humored pictures asking if anyone else would find it amusing. Then people proceeded to bitch about the arm being backwards and thus the mess then proceed to blame the OP for getting mad for getting answers to a question not asked. As I said before, if the idea is dumb when explained, chances are, it's not the drawing. It's just a dumb idea.



When people miss out on humor, often asked is "why" a scene is funny. I am not sure why this epic bullshitting you're going through is so difficult to understand. 

You're kinda all over the place, you attack me for saying "it doesn't matter, draw what you want" with this bizarre idea that the OP only presented a yes or no answer. Now if someone says "if that arm is backwards or what is that supposed to be, why is it funny" it's now bullshit for even asking in the first place.

Seriously though, why does all this matter. If the OP wants to draw it, go for it. What are we gonna do, place a ban on the pencil or whatever digital device they posses? Basically, so fucking what Aleu, move the fuck on. What purpose is this serving?


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Classical art styles are not always "better" guys. Just better at being classical art. 
When going for surrealist styles disregarding anatomy is something people do intentionally, not due to a lack of talent.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Classical art styles are not always "better" guys. Just better at being classical art.
> When going for surrealist styles disregarding anatomy is something people do intentionally, not due to a lack of talent.



Yes, but the artist disregarding anatomy often do know their anatomy to a T.
Take Picasso for example, though not a surrealist but whatever. Painted this and this.

Just because he disregards anatomy and other painting-"rules" doesn't mean he doesn't know them. In order to break the rules, you need to know the rules.
And when someone breaks the rules, but doesn't know them, more often than not it's painfully obvious in the finished work.


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## Aleu (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> When people miss out on humor, often asked is "why" a scene is funny. I am not sure why this epic bullshitting you're going through is so difficult to understand.
> 
> You're kinda all over the place, you attack me for saying "it doesn't matter, draw what you want" with this bizarre idea that the OP only presented a yes or no answer. Now if someone says "if that arm is backwards or what is that supposed to be, why is it funny" it's now bullshit for even asking in the first place.
> 
> Seriously though, why does all this matter. If the OP wants to draw it, go for it. What are we gonna do, place a ban on the pencil or whatever digital device they posses? Basically, so fucking what Aleu, move the fuck on. What purpose is this serving?


As OP stated in response to you
"I think I should draw and practice more too, and I am. I already have themes that I am doing that are not based on what other people want. I'm sure you mean well, but your statements are not helpful.* I was asking for interest in this theme. If you have no interest your answer is no. If you have some, then it is yes and you can give me suggestions on what you'd like to see along these lines*."
They also stated that they have this radical idea of drawing not only for themself but for other people. If people don't care about it, then it's likely they'll either
a. draw it and just not post it or
b. just not draw it.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Which doesn't matter.

OP should draw what he/she wants. We're not their babysitters, we're other artists. 

Isn't it amazing? It still isn't a yes/no demand.

Man, I'm gonna have to agree you're really desperate here. Was Starbucks offering a punchcard for more coffee or something?


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> As OP stated in response to you
> "I think I should draw and practice more too, and I am. I already have themes that I am doing that are not based on what other people want. I'm sure you mean well, but your statements are not helpful.* I was asking for interest in this theme. If you have no interest your answer is no. If you have some, then it is yes and you can give me suggestions on what you'd like to see along these lines*."
> They also stated that they have this radical idea of drawing not only for themself but for other people. If people don't care about it, then it's likely they'll either
> a. draw it and just not post it or
> b. just not draw it.



Except the said they'd be drawing it either way even if reactions are negative or non-existant, so ...  really, what then is the purpose of this thread besides the hope of getting asspats?


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Yes, but the artist disregarding anatomy often do know their anatomy to a T.
> Take Picasso for example, though not a surrealist but whatever. Painted this and this.
> 
> Just because he disregards anatomy and other painting-"rules" doesn't mean he doesn't know them. In order to break the rules, you need to know the rules.
> And when someone breaks the rules, but doesn't know them, more often than not it's painfully obvious in the finished work.


 if someone plans to do something that does not follow those rules and not things that do are the rules not needed?

Why learn to drive a car i one plans to only use a boat?


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> if someone plans to do something that does not follow those rules and not things that do are the rules not needed?
> 
> Why learn to drive a car i one plans to only use a boat?



Your analogy makes no sense.
Let's put it this way: "_Why should I learn drawing if I want to be drawing?_".
Your analogy, however, is more along the lines of "_Why should I learn drawing if I want to sculpt?_"

And guess what ... anatomy is still at the base of both! Anatomy and an understanding of the world as you see it, composition, light theory and colour is needed to be able to put what you see on paper, sculpt it in clay or whatever your chosen medium is.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> if someone plans to do something that does not follow those rules and not things that do are the rules not needed?
> 
> Why learn to drive a car i one plans to only use a boat?



Huh?

Learning anatomy is one of the big things when learning to be an artist. Even When you go abstract there's a reason people learn from life. They learn basically how things construct, so that one can deconstruct them. You can argue about whether or not learning bones are important. I'm pretty sure though people will state the importance of learning form and how things work so that when you break a rule it's to further learn how to deconstruct what you've learned to construct.

Most people who haven't drawn enough will still make excuses or arguments otherwise. When you start drawing a lot it starts to click and make sense why you learn certain things rather than poo-poo them.


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Huh?
> 
> Learning anatomy is one of the big things when learning to be an artist. Even When you go abstract there's a reason people learn from life. They learn basically how things construct, so that one can deconstruct them. You can argue about whether or not learning bones are important. I'm pretty sure though people will state the importance of learning form and how things work so that when you break a rule it's to further learn how to deconstruct what you've learned to construct.
> 
> Most people who haven't drawn enough will still make excuses or arguments otherwise. When you start drawing a lot it starts to click and make sense why you learn certain things rather than poo-poo them.


I'd have to disagree simply because that implies there is only one right way to learn how to produce artwork which can take infinite forms with infinite paths to get there.

In /most/ cases I would agree with you. I am just saying it is not always the case.

Mainly what I mean there is no one set path or set of requirements on how to become or be an artist.... Much modern art is built beyond the principles of conventional artwork for example focusing completely on texture, and can also be an effective median.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> I'd have to disagree simply because that implies there is only one right way to learn how to produce artwork which can take infinite forms with infinite paths to get there.
> 
> In /most/ cases I would agree with you. I am just saying it is not always the case.



And those infinite paths always start with ... *the basics.* They are called the basics for a pretty damn compelling reason.
As in: your stuff will look like shit until it gets through a person's thick skull that the basics are, well ... the basics.

And it took me a while to get that too, but at least now I'm seeing improvement in my art.


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> And those infinite paths always start with ... *the basics.* They are called the basics for a pretty damn compelling reason.
> As in: your stuff will look like shit until it gets through a person's thick skull that the basics are, well ... the basics.
> 
> And it took me a while to get that too, but at least now I'm seeing improvement in my art.


 Again, you are applying linear logic to a non-liner concept.

It depends completely on where you plan to go.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> In /most/ cases I would agree with you. I am just saying it is not always the case.



It's all philosophical hogwash because it doesn't defend the OP's problem one bit. Does it?


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Again, you are applying linear logic to a non-liner concept.
> 
> It depends completely on where you plan to go.



Let me put it this way: there are infinite ways to start making a novel. But if your grammar is atrocious and you can't spell to save your life, you're not going to achieve much.
Same with art. Sure, you can just finger-paint and throw stuff together, but it's not going to look even half-way decent unless you acknowledge that you need to start with the basics.

hell, is this such a hard concept to get? Seriously? :'D


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## Teal (May 12, 2013)

Maybe the artist was a troll and knew this would be the result.


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## Zenia (May 12, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> hell, is this such a hard concept to get? Seriously? :'D


But being an artist means you're special and can do whatever you want! Everything is art you guys, so rules don't matter! *childish optimism*


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Zenia said:


> But being an artist means you're special and can do whatever you want! Everything is art you guys, so rules don't matter! *childish optimism*



There are just some concepts that should be drilled into some people. And by "drilled" I mean "slammed".
And by "slammed" I mean "slammed with the heaviest art-books possible".


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Zenia said:


> But being an artist means you're special and can do whatever you want! Everything is art you guys, so rules don't matter! *childish optimism*









Whenever I hear people try to argue such a low percentage of success to be an artist I always have to think of the above XD


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's all philosophical hogwash because it doesn't defend the OP's problem one bit. Does it?


 Now you are dismissing without actually bringing up a point. Became a case of "thinking Vs Stubbornness" I'm done than.


Ansitru said:


> Let me put it this way: there are infinite ways  to start making a novel. But if your grammar is atrocious and you can't  spell to save your life, you're not going to achieve much.
> Same with art. Sure, you can just finger-paint and throw stuff together,  but it's not going to look even half-way decent unless you acknowledge  that you need to start with the basics.
> 
> hell, is this such a hard concept to get? Seriously? :'D


 Horrible horrible logic. Because having spelling and grammar to write is more comparable to having a paintbrush and a canvas than the techniques to use them.

But this is all besides the point really I got all ramble prone on an argument related to this but not of this.

The man asked a question and you are being functionally off topic by telling him to focus on things he was not inquiring about.
 "Is silly surreal art of this general style fun?" -> "work on technique" 
That simply is not replying to the question.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Now you are dismissing without actually bringing up a point. Became a case of "thinking Vs Stubbornness" I'm done than.



Not at all, you're from a really low percentage. Basically you're trying to say "my point is valid because there's an exception" Which is a really bad argument. That's like saying that because there's an exception it should be the rule. That's a pansy argument and utter bullshit.

For most part hard work is going to get you to learn things. We're talking about how we pick up and relate work.The exception is such a rarity, its not worth the position to argue about. Art isn't special snowflake time.


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## Zenia (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> "Is silly surreal art of this general style fun?" -> "work on technique"
> That simply is not replying to the question.


If you can't tell what the drawing is, how do you know if it is fun/funny?


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not at all, you're from a really low percentage. Basically you're trying to say "my point is valid because there's an exception" Which is a really bad argument. That's like saying that because there's an exception it should be the rule. That's a pansy argument and utter bullshit.


You are making an assumption. Very bad. 
What I am saying is "If he wants to do a specific style of art he ought to learn what he needs for that style"


> For most part hard work is going to get you to learn things. We're talking about how we pick up and relate work.The exception is such a rarity, its not worth the position to argue about. Art isn't special snowflake time.


Art is simply a median of expression which can manifest in many varied ways and techniques.

For random example: I sculpt, but learned what I know mostly from doing brass-work and clockwork, attempting to make things people have not done before, which is going... slowly, but traditional sculpting techniques would not really be of any of an aid... 

Not exactly a adjacent issue but somewhat related.

Also note using the term Hogwash makes people look stodgy, and out of touch. I'd avoid it.


Zenia said:


> If you can't tell what the drawing is, how do you know if it is fun/funny?


Edit: i could tell...


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Translation:

"I haven't read this thread and need to again argue from the logical fallacy that the exception is the rule again. Let me argue it from another way because this flawed argument is still correct"

In fact let's bring up the "What is art" and other regurgitated stupid arguments in this thread too since that's where you seem to be heading. Artmaking is different than art definitions and what the "establishment" came up with. Go read Art & Fear.


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> You are making an assumption. Very bad.
> What I am saying is _"If he wants to do a specific style of art he ought to learn what he needs for that style"_



Please don't even dare to tell me that for surrealism you don't need a basic understanding of realism. Because if so, I think I may just take my Dalí-book and smack you upside the head with it, which I mean in the best way possible. SUR-REALISM. As in, changed version of, but above all related to REALISM. As in "_You need to know your realism before you go bending the reality_".


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

I dare say whatever I damn well please.  
Given your verbiage you seem to be taking this personally so I am done.


Arshes Nei said:


> Translation:
> 
> "I haven't read this thread and need to again argue from the logical fallacy that the exception is the rule again. Let me argue it from another way because this flawed argument is still correct"
> 
> In fact let's bring up the "What is art" and other regurgitated stupid arguments in this thread too since that's where you seem to be heading. Artmaking is different than art definitions and what the "establishment" came up with. Go read Art & Fear.


 Uh. No. Nice try though. 
I will write this off as I am not seeming to communicate what I intend too.


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## Schwimmwagen (May 12, 2013)

I haven't seen a single style that didn't look like crap that wasn't grounded in realism in one way or another.

I also don't get why "draw from life" makes people think that they're being told they're meant to work their way up to this* before they can simplify. It's not quite the case at all. You study from real life to learn how things _work_ and how they're _built_ before you start "doing your own thing" or simplifying the subject. Of course, copying what you see in real life is second-to-none when it comes to helping you with this. It doesn't mean you have to be painting like a master for 10 years before you can do something disneyish without getting scoffed at, it's simply a crucial bit of framework for you.

*David John Kassan


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> I dare say whatever I damn well please.
> Given your verbiage you seem to be taking this personally so I am done.



Just because I curse doesn't mean I'm angry. It just means I like cursing. :3
Or should I riddle all my comments with random smiley-faces to indicate when I'm not being serious and when I'm joking?


But seriously though: do you draw? Have you ever drawn? Like, at all?


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## Kalmor (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> I dare say whatever I damn well please.
> Given your verbiage you seem to be taking this personally so I am done.
> Uh. No. Nice try though.
> I will write this off as I am not seeming to communicate what I intend too.


"No one is agreeing with me therefore I'll exit this thread in the most dramatic way possible".


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Raptros said:


> "No one is agreeing with me therefore I'll exit this thread in the most dramatic way possible".








Just because someone can say whatever they please doesn't validate their argument any more lol.


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## Duality Jack (May 12, 2013)

Come on now aren't moderators and staff supposed to be above cheap shots? If someone does not want to argue with you does not mean you are the high and mighty.



Ansitru said:


> Just because I curse doesn't mean I'm angry. It just means I like cursing. :3
> Or should I riddle all my comments with random smiley-faces to indicate when I'm not being serious and when I'm joking?
> 
> 
> But seriously though: do you draw? Have you ever drawn? Like, at all?


My experience is more with things that work in three dimensions, but yes I know how to draw, I know the foundations, and I took a few years in an arts school and honestly got bored of drawing. Perhaps though my reasoning is brought up from other schools of art.


EDIT: regardless I should head on my way simply because this is going no-where.


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## Schwimmwagen (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> My experience is more with things that work in three dimensions, but yes I know how to draw



drawing works in three dimensions


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## Ansitru (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Come on now aren't moderators and staff supposed to be above cheap shots?
> 
> 
> My experience is more with things that work in three dimensions, but yes I know how to draw, I know the foundations, and I took a few years in an arts school and honestly got bored of drawing. Perhaps though my reasoning is brought up from other schools of art.



So you know your basics. Awesome. So we've established that, then.
So why would you tell another artist not to learn the basics when that is, in fact, what they should be learning even if it's in between the fun-work like cartooning?

Also, as the edit-comment doesn't seem to be working: clarification that "smack you upside the head" was to be taken more in jest, but I'm not in the habit of riddling my posts with smilies everywhere so that came across harsher than I intended.


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## Arshes Nei (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Come on now aren't moderators and staff supposed to be above cheap shots? If someone does not want to argue with you does not mean you are the high and mighty.




Not at all, it's not that I think highly of myself. There's better ways to leave an argument than make 3 posts about "I'm leaving"

Drawing works in 3 dimensions. Just because the illustration itself is 2D doesn't mean people aren't learning to convey how to make their drawings show form and 3D space of their subject matter.


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## FireFeathers (May 12, 2013)

Mokushi said:


> Mainly what I mean there is no one set path or set of requirements on how to become or be an artist.... Much modern art is built beyond the principles of conventional artwork for example focusing completely on texture, and can also be an effective median.




This statement hurt my everything so much.  You do understand most capable and successful modern, surreal and abstract artists had periods of extreme realism in their past, right? Even Picasso:  http://www.artgalleryabc.com/images/picasso1.JPG   There are different ways of expressing yourself, yes. But you have to know how to express yourself in the first place.  It's often easier to think you can cut through the middle without it, but then you just get BS artists like Pollock. 

Concerning this thread and it's origins, my god. It was like a fantastic soap opera.


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## Teal (May 12, 2013)

FireFeathers said:


> Concerning this thread and it's origins, my god. It was like a fantastic soap opera.


 All that's missing is the cheating spouses and the bodies that were never found.


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## CatterHatter (May 13, 2013)

Haaaaa! At this point I am (this is not the right word but is the only thing that comes close) flattered. I wish I could troll like this on purpose, but apparently I'm only a troll by accident. Love the full-fledged debate though. Great job everyone. For a moment of sincerity I am thankful that there was some defense for my line of reasoning. Sorry for all the unintentional butthurt I have cause to others.

I was called a child and told to act my age and so therefore perfectly stymied to ever speak again to pissy people who like to call people children. Because I take insults on forums very srsly. Also, apparently I'm incapable of ignoring anyone. I still ended up reading all this... >>

My topic: BLOWN way out of proportion. I'm sad and yet impressed at the same time.
I'm totally mad bro! So who were the trolls...? And I DO want asspats Ansitru. I love when people pat me on the ass. Oh wait, that's right. I won't accept asspats if I'm not asking for them. I throw compliments away when I don't think them justified. Just like I throw critiques away (Good or bad ones! Nice or mean ones!) when they are given to me without me asking for them. I accept almost all critiques when I do *ask* for them.

Like Mokushi I also say what I damn well please, especially when people regurgitate at me and throw common courtesy out the window by insisting I accept what they give me when I DO NOT WANT. 

Also, to rub some salt in your obvious emotional wounds, I think I will draw a lot more of this. Thanks for all the yes. I am so energized now to make some WTF. By not giving me what I needed... you gave me exactly what I needed! @_@
I'll try to make it worse on purpose to further offend your artistic sensibilities. It'll be so much fun.


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## Arshes Nei (May 13, 2013)

CatterHatter said:


> Also, to rub some salt in your obvious emotional wounds, I think I will draw a lot more of this. Thanks for all the yes. I am so energized now to make some WTF. By not giving me what I needed... you gave me exactly what I needed! @_@
> I'll try to make it worse on purpose to further offend your artistic sensibilities. It'll be so much fun.



Oh NOES! You did what you want, which is what we pretty much what we said you should do. We're so hurt! You told us! 

Glad you got your Jerry's Final Thoughts out.


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## CatterHatter (May 13, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh NOES! You did what you want, which is what we pretty much what we said you should do. We're so hurt! You told us!
> 
> Glad you got your Jerry's Final Thoughts out.



Thanks! Me too! Wait, who is Jerry? I have so much closure I could sell chunks of it to the highest bidder and still have enough left over for satisfaction!

And I would not have been ABLE to do what I want without you telling me to do what I want. Thanks. I appreciate you so much.


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## Teal (May 13, 2013)

What the fuck?


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## Zabrina (May 28, 2013)

Bobcats are like cute wittle fuzz balls.

Bobcats. Just bobcats.


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## Zydala (May 28, 2013)

Wh... how did I miss this trainwreck

How did this go on for so long

Time outs for everyone


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