# IE8 Made critical download (you can disable it)...



## ToeClaws (May 1, 2009)

Slashdot touched on this the other day, with a bit more news today in that Internet Explorer 8 is being made a "critical" patch for XP (and likely other versions of Windows as well).  You can, however, disable it using a little utility from Microsoft, or by creating the following branch in your registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Setup\8.0

Then the following DWORD value:

Value Name: DoNotAllowIE80

Value Data: 1

Either works.  If you do wish to install IE8, then be aware that one tricky (if not evil) thing that it does is make itself the default browser without asking you.  You can, at least, undo this by having Firefox (or whatever your primary browser is) re-establish itself as the default.  If it doesn't automatically check, you can do so in Firefox by going to Tools-->Options, then Advanced, and the General tab where you'll see an option at the bottom to have it check to see if it's the default.


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## Stratelier (May 1, 2009)

Well, at least MS is kind enough to include a mutex....

Now as for the 'default browser' issue, well, that's the Web browsers' way of saying "this town ain't big enough for the two of us" and has always been.


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## Ruko (May 1, 2009)

People still use IE


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## lilEmber (May 1, 2009)

People still use IE


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## CyberFoxx (May 1, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> If you do wish to install IE8, then be aware that one tricky (if not evil) thing that it does is make itself the default browser without asking you.




Well, that rumor is completely false. I've installed IE8 on several computers now, and on each, the install asked if I wanted to set IE8 as the default browser. I agree with the other Slashdot posters, this rumor got started by somebody that was click happy.

Oh, and I'm quite impressed with IE8, it gathers dust on the HD just like IE7. All joking aside, it might be a good idea to actually update. A lot of lauchers/updaters for MMOs, Steam, etc, use IE. IE "security" might not be what it should, but you might be safer in updating it than not...


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## Pi (May 1, 2009)

Why would you want to disable the first browser update that makes IE actually a browser instead of an HTML misinterpreter?


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## net-cat (May 1, 2009)

Pi said:


> Why would you want to disable the first browser update that makes IE actually a browser instead of an HTML misinterpreter?


Because it'd break the internets. Duh.


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## ToeClaws (May 1, 2009)

CyberFoxx said:


> Well, that rumor is completely false. I've installed IE8 on several computers now, and on each, the install asked if I wanted to set IE8 as the default browser. I agree with the other Slashdot posters, this rumor got started by somebody that was click happy.



Likely true for the manual install, as it does ask.  I think it pertains only to the automatic install that's pushed down by Windows/Microsoft update.


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## LizardKing (May 1, 2009)

Critical? I just unticked it, same as the Genuine Advantage crap.


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## Eevee (May 1, 2009)

If you don't use IE, why do you care which IE version you have installed?


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## Irreverent (May 1, 2009)

Ruko said:


> People still use IE



About 80,000 instances of it on my corporate network alone......

At home?  What, are you kidding me?



net-cat said:


> Because it'd break the internet's servers. Duh.



Fixed. :razz:  The 'Net is agnostic.



ToeClaws said:


> Likely true for the manual install, as it does ask.  I think it pertains only to the automatic install that's pushed down by Windows/Microsoft update.



I used the auto-update just to see what it would do....didn't break anything on my vista boxes.


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## net-cat (May 1, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> Fixed. :razz:  The 'Net is agnostic.


You say that like people who will unwittingly download it and have their internet break care! :razz:


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## ToeClaws (May 1, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> I used the auto-update just to see what it would do....didn't break anything on my vista boxes.



Good gods... you run Vista?  In a business? :shock:  

Overall, I don't think pushing down IE is necessarily a bad idea... for the consumer world.  There are a lot of consumer users that don't even know what a browser is "I just click on the big blue E and I get on the Internet!" - you know, those folks.  If _something_ didn't force them to update the browser, they'd all still be on IE4 or 5.  

The problem tends to come from the business world were forced updates create helpdesk/support nightmares, and also compatibility issues.  I remember the update from IE6 to 7 caused a huge number of problems with VPN clients, web-management apps and other tools professionals were using in the office (well... the few who actually used IE, anyway).


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## SnowFox (May 1, 2009)

I only just upgraded to IE 7 last week at work and now all of a sudden I'm getting bullied to download IE 8. I have multiple IE's installed for testing, and I'm tempted to try IE 8 but then I wont have an IE 7 unless there's an update for that multiple IE tool/program/thing.

Also: LOL repost from you laugh you lose:






It doesn't get any less funny no matter how many times I read it.



ToeClaws said:


> The problem tends to come from the business world were forced updates create helpdesk/support nightmares, and also compatibility issues. I remember the update from IE6 to 7 caused a huge number of problems with VPN clients, web-management apps and other tools professionals were using in the office (well... the few who actually used IE, anyway).



Someone managed to accidentally get upgraded from 6 to 8 at work and it managed to "break" a shared MS access database. I didn't know that at the time but eventually I worked out it was some new security setting that was kind enough to give no warning that it was blocking it from launching and just left you thinking WTF? Of course it doesn't help that people decide to leave it a few weeks before even mentioning that something was wrong making it a lot harder to narrow down the cause of it


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## Armaetus (May 1, 2009)

Use Firefox or Opera.


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## Eevee (May 1, 2009)

SnowFox: Microsoft provides free VM images with older versions of IE installed.

You may pause to consider that this is the only way the creator of both the operating system and the browser have come up with to run multiple versions of the browser concurrently.


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## Irreverent (May 1, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Good gods... you run Vista?  In a business? :shock:



Yep.  About 20k images.  But that's desktop stuff *spits on floor*, not networking.  



> Overall, I don't think pushing down IE is necessarily a bad idea... for the consumer world.  There are a lot of consumer users that don't even know what a browser is "I just click on the big blue E and I get on the Internet!" - you know, those folks.  If _something_ didn't force them to update the browser, they'd all still be on IE4 or 5.



Or IE 2.0  



> The problem tends to come from the business world were forced updates create helpdesk/support nightmares, and also compatibility issues.  I remember the update from IE6 to 7 caused a huge number of problems with VPN clients, web-management apps and other tools professionals were using in the office (well... the few who actually used IE, anyway).



Businesses should never really be forced to upgrade, because they should already have robust software version and deployment protocols.  If you're running unscripted, ad-hoc windows update on workstations, and not some type of group policy upgrade server, yer doing it wrong.


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## ToeClaws (May 1, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> Yep.  About 20k images.  But that's desktop stuff *spits on floor*, not networking.



*chuckles* Guess it's unavoidable there.  There's a handful of copies in the ITS department at the university - like... maybe 4 or 5, but that's it.  All new systems are being purchased with XP Pro... or they get Macs, or install Linux.



Irreverent said:


> Or IE 2.0



GAH!  What a godawful browser that was.  First... the first version of IE the public ever saw was 2.0.  That was the first sign that this was going to be a bad, bad product.  I remember 2.0 didn't even show animated GIFs (which for all you youngins were the coolest thing until Flash, Java and so on came along), and didn't do a lot of HTML properly.



Irreverent said:


> Businesses should never really be forced to upgrade, because they should already have robust software version and deployment protocols.  If you're running unscripted, ad-hoc windows update on workstations, and not some type of group policy upgrade server, yer doing it wrong.



Agreed totally. :/  The drawback is that in the 1990's, there was a big decentralization movement where people thought the whole mainframe/network thing wasn't that important anymore and everyone got their own computers and servers and so on.  Of course, by the late 90's, everyone quickly realized that wasn't a great idea, and the slow migration back to a centralized system were ITS controls stuff began again.

We're in control of _most_ things now, but not ever workstation is a member of the school's various domains, which is a problem.  Slowly, that is changing, and I'm glad for it.  The more systems that are brought under domain control, the more we can moderate rollouts of major things like browsers.


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## Carenath (May 1, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> About 80,000 instances of it on my corporate network alone......


Not if it was my network..



> Fixed. :razz:  The 'Net is agnostic *unless your ISP throttles*


Fixed.



> I used the auto-update just to see what it would do....didn't break anything on my vista boxes.


Chances are it will sneak its way onto my computers soon enough.. I could care less though.


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## Irreverent (May 1, 2009)

Carenath said:


> Not if it was my network..



Ha!  What marketing does to the customer-facing network, corporate-procurement does to the internal network.....except R&D, man I swear those guys print money. 



> Fixed.



Zing!  



> Chances are it will sneak its way onto my computers soon enough.. I could care less though.



Yeah, that was sort of my position too.


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## Shino (May 2, 2009)

Am I the only one that uses IE8 as my default?
Yes, I have firefox installed, but I use that as my backup browser. Too many of the sites I visit are IE-only to bother switching between the browsers. Besides, I prefer some of the interface features.

And those of you about to lecture me about security and stability, you can shove it up your IceWeasel. Between all the different layers of security I have and the fact that I'm not stupid enough to go to malicious websites, it's not a problem.

I realize that IE isn't perfect, but none of the other browers are, either. Firefox wasn't sent from the heavens.


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## Takun (May 2, 2009)

IE only sites?  Like what? D:

Also, there is an addon for that O:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1419

Fuck yeah Greasemonkey, No-Script, Ad Block, RIP, and other stuff.  8D


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## Irreverent (May 2, 2009)

Takumi_L said:


> IE only sites?  Like what? D:



I suspect it may be corporate internal sites he's going to.  Ours all do a browser check and will log an automatic trouble ticket for follow up due to "unsupported software."  Its corporate policy.  Not that I agree with it, but the execs set the rules.

Externally, we support IE, FF, Opera and Safari on the main site and the ISP portal site.


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## Shino (May 2, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> I suspect it may be corporate internal sites he's going to. Ours all do a browser check and will log an automatic trouble ticket for follow up due to "unsupported software." Its corporate policy. Not that I agree with it, but the execs set the rules.


 
Bingo. There are other sites that render better in IE too, but that's the main reason. Also, as a off-and-on web designer, IE gives me an idea of how most of the world will see the site, as IE is far more common among average users.


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## Carenath (May 2, 2009)

Shino said:


> Am I the only one that uses IE8 as my default?
> Yes, I have firefox installed, but I use that as my backup browser. Too many of the sites I visit are IE-only to bother switching between the browsers. Besides, I prefer some of the interface features.


 



> I realize that IE isn't perfect, but none of the other browers are, either. Firefox wasn't sent from the heavens.


Probably.. but I'll have it installed when I run my next batch of updates.

IE was never about being a good browser, or even a browser.. it was purely about Microsoft wanting to control the web and lock people into using their software. It is illegal, but they got away with it.
I dont use IE on principle..
First, because Im a website designer.. and I support standards-compliance. Open Standards insure that everyone using a compliant browser, will see a website exactly as I design it, and not the way their browser /thinks/ I designed it.
Second, by supporting a compliant browser, converting others to said browser, said browser's marketshare increases, and more and more large sites are redesigned to support W3C standards (which has the knock-on effect of making your site look good in every browser.. but IE6 and below.. IE7 makes great strides but still had ways to go.. and IE8 will hopefully bridge the gap even more.. and make life less of a headache for site desginers out there..

As for IE-Only sites... this is where Firefox excels.. an extension called IETab allows you to set sites to open, and display using IE's Trident engine instead of Gecko.. allowing Firefox to support IE-Only sites like that.

And Firefox was never sent from the heavens... it rose from the ashes of Netscape.



Irreverent said:


> I suspect it may be corporate internal sites he's going to.  Ours all do a browser check and will log an automatic trouble ticket for follow up due to "unsupported software."  Its corporate policy.  Not that I agree with it, but the execs set the rules.
> 
> Externally, we support IE, FF, Opera and Safari on the main site and the ISP portal site.


That reminds me of that "WebCT" software the college used.. it would display an annoying warning every time you used it... bringing me back to the point about standards.
The whole point about open standards, like XHTML and CSS.. is that you should be able to build a site, and use it in any browser that supports these standards.. of which IE often fails miserably.



Shino said:


> Bingo. There are other sites that render better in IE too, but that's the main reason. Also, as a off-and-on web designer, IE gives me an idea of how most of the world will see the site, as IE is far more common among average users.


Other sites... who's developers dont know what they are doing, or how to properly code a website... its as bad as using txt/leet-speak.

@Irre: Please tell the guys who are responsible for your company's sites... to fix the damn things... they are a prime example of how /not/ to build a user-interface... awkward to navigate... and next to impossible to find any useful information on.

@ToeClaws: You would be surprised.. the company I work for.. is a good example of how not to do IT.


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## Irreverent (May 2, 2009)

Carenath said:


> @Irre: Please tell the guys who are responsible for your company's sites... to fix the damn things... they are a prime example of how /not/ to build a user-interface... awkward to navigate... and next to impossible to find any useful information on.



Yep.  The best coders in the world ain't worth shit when the presentation layer is run by marketing.  Its "code by committee." 

And I do tell them,_ frequently_.  A complete overhaul of bell.ca and sympatico.msn.ca would cost about 6 million CDN each; exclusive of servers and oracle11-rac  instances.  It ain't gonna happen.  Hell, change control across a half-dozen supported browsers and dozens of browser add-ins is bad enough.  I suspect most corporate sites are collapsing under their own inertia, regardless of client browser issues.  Its a catch-22.


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## Eevee (May 2, 2009)

Shino said:


> Also, as a off-and-on web designer, IE gives me an idea of how most of the world will see the site, as IE is far more common among average users.


And developing against a browser that doesn't have its head up its ass will give you _breadth_ in browsers; Firefox, Safari, Opera, Konqueror, etc etc tend to have far less egregious rendering problems than IE so they will render everything pretty similarly.

Your support of IE is just further delaying the rollout of any really interesting technology like SVG, SMIL, <canvas> and its 3D counterpart, Web storage, and someday HTML5 and CSS3.


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## Kio (May 2, 2009)

Guys, just upgrade. Seriously why stay with a browser like 8 years old (yes I am talking about you IE6 people) which is buggy, feature-less and force people to hack their page design or cut down on features so it can look good on your crappy browser. IE 7-8 fixes most of the problems and it's fast(er). Or better yet use Firefox or Chrome.


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## Stratelier (May 3, 2009)

Kio said:


> Guys, just upgrade. Seriously why stay with a browser like 8 years old (yes I am talking about you IE6 people) which is buggy, feature-less and force people to hack their page design or cut down on features so it can look good on your crappy browser. IE 7-8 fixes most of the problems and it's fast(er). Or better yet use Firefox or Chrome.



The problem isn't with the upgrade itself but with _Wirth's Law_.

Firefox3 and Inkscape are among the few real winners in that respect.


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## net-cat (May 3, 2009)

I've got IE8 on my laptop and IE6 in a virtual machine someplace. (Will be making an IE7 virtual machine for Ferrox development, I suppose.)

What can I say about IE8... it's IE.

How to develop a web page that works anywhere:


Code your site using semantic HTML. All core functionality should work without anything else.
Write style sheets and JavaScript for Gecko or WebKit. Keep them in separate files.
Add a few minor tweaks to make it work on WebKit/Gecko, Opera, and if the hype is to be believed, Trident 8.
Write some outright hacks to make it work in Trident 7. Alternatively, make your web server detect IE7 and give different style sheets and JavaScript. (Yay market share.)
Add some traps in your web server configuration to return 0-byte files when anything else requests CSS or JavaScript files.

Do that, and your site should look good in any modern browser and it should work in any browser made in the last 15 years.


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