# What do the big boys use?



## ThisisGabe (Apr 3, 2010)

Is there any info out there about what programs were used for songs on the billboard charts?


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## Teco (Apr 3, 2010)

ThisisGabe said:


> Is there any info out there about what programs were used for songs on the billboard charts?


 I assume giant ass studios. The programs, not so sure.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 3, 2010)

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

this is one of many pro grad apps out there


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## ThisisGabe (Apr 3, 2010)

*stares in awe*

wow, it's like a SUPER audacity. thx!


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## Duality Jack (Apr 3, 2010)

ThisisGabe said:


> *stares in awe*
> 
> wow, it's like a SUPER audacity. thx!


 I had a rig built around this beast but when I was far in the red I had to pawn it piece by piece just to pay the overdue bills D;


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## ThisisGabe (Apr 3, 2010)

The Drunken Ace said:


> I had a rig built around this beast but when I was far in the red I had to pawn it piece by piece just to pay the overdue bills D;



You couldn't just make some masterful top Billboard single to pay it off? .. i guess that's being idealistic.. 

=c dang everyones having money issues.

sounds really elaborate, I probably will stick with audacity for now. Although I'm curious if there is a USB mic better then my blue mic... I saw something that looked.. more professional and by the same company.

I'm probably living in a dream world thinking I can make something sound as good as the professionals using Sibelius/Adobe/Audition/Audacity/Blue Mic.. but I literally don't know what I need that this program has that the programs I use don't!


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## Dog Donovan (Apr 4, 2010)

*Fruity Loops Studio by Image Line*




​ 
I know for a fact it's used by a multitude of electronic music artists, prime examples being Beyonce and Basshunter. A large amount of underground artists use it from what I know.

It's an incredibly powerful studio with plenty of built in effect generators, synthesizers, pattern and beat creation tools, and the like. I've been practicing over a year with it and I still don't have all of its concepts down.

You can piece together simple pattern-focused songs with its piano roll and playlist functions as easily as you can with most other more basic song creation softwares, or with practice, study, and diligence, create orchestrated epics, progressive trance tunes, or authentic sounding rock riffs... Personally, I don't see how any other system could have more strength than FL Studio, because with enough patience and practice, its power at creating songs is more or less limitless.


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## ThisisGabe (Apr 4, 2010)

Dog Donovan said:


> *Fruity Loops Studio by Image Line*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



x3.. i have it.. it just scares and confuses me so.. I fear it... but I have a friend on skype who's willing to teach me.. so I'll eventually .. tackle it..


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## Willow (Apr 4, 2010)

The Drunken Ace said:


> http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
> 
> this is one of many pro grad apps out there


Is this free?!
(..I just have audacity...)


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## Duality Jack (Apr 4, 2010)

ThisisGabe said:


> You couldn't just make some masterful top Billboard single to pay it off? .. i guess that's being idealistic..
> 
> =c dang everyones having money issues.
> 
> ...


well reaper is more of a recording studio app that can be used for pro finish and has the ability to add audio filtters when getting the feed (so you can filter you guitars or mic feeds during record ) check my FA page for "old song - old band" for an example of what we made in a weekend with it



WillowWulf said:


> Is this free?!
> (..I just have audacity...)



to try yes, I just got a cd key somehow later


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## jinxtigr (Apr 7, 2010)

It's going to be almost entirely Digidesign Pro Tools or Apple's Logic Studio- almost nobody is at 64 bit and at least half the professional studios are not on the very latest release version.

Heavily Mac, but not because of performance so much as because Macs can be made to work like a video game console- predictable configuration without much variation.

Software's more about plugins than the DAW choice- you'll see a LOT of iLok dongles in use (I hate iLok  ), notable plugin developers at this level- Waves, UAD- there's also TC Powercore and Duende for software that runs off a separate hardware engine.

People used to be heavy into Altiverb for reverb but convolution reverb is rather static- the new top verb is another that runs off a hardware engine, Bricasti.

Mics and stuff, there's a few (SM57!) that get used at every level, but the mic pre will be your litmus test for a 'big boy' studio: you're talking Neve, API, preamps for the mics. There's a very large selection of other boutique pres also in use, most of which cost the same amount. API made things called 'lunchboxes' where you could put pres that normally went into fullsize consoles, to make them more portable- that's another possibility, especially for more flexible studio setups. The pre is critical because it's really hard and expensive to get low noise on mics like ribbon mics.

Mics that turn up in big boy studios- dynamics, SM57, SM7b, Electro-Voice RE20- ribbons, the classic is Coles 4038 but Royer R121 has been a huge hit. Condensers, Neumanns will be the most serious option but there are other possibilities- I've been pleasantly surprised by my Shure Beta 87a, certainly pro quality at least for stage use and quite recordable.

Bono used to cut vocals in the control room into a SM58 (granted, into a real pre). There's always room for an exception to any or all of this if you have a good song 

I'll shut up but if anybody has other questions I'm happy to answer. My day job is writing audio software for 'big boys' so I've gotten pretty familiar with what their setups are like, down to making plugins (like 'Golem') to do things that would seem pointless in project studios. Golem is for when you have two 57s on the same amp and speaker, one pointing directly at the dustcap and the other at 45 degrees across the first and as near coincident as you can get it, and you're balancing levels and relative phase between the two mics. This technique comes out of metal guitar engineering and might go back as far as Van Halen.

This is what you might expect from a 'big boys' store- http://www.mercenary.com/ I've got stuff from here. They're pretty much only carrying what top tier professional studios will use, minus easily available stuff like 57s and mic stands (actually Mercenary has those- I have one of the On Stage studio boom stands for drum overhead duties, they have a Latch Lake boom stand for $750 that is still more awesome)


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## ThisisGabe (Apr 7, 2010)

HOLY MOLY. so many long words i need to learn..

Sweet, thanks for the info.. basically, these are resources impractical to little ol' computer users like me. To get studio quality I need to rent studio time with experts that KNOW what they're doing. 

I'm not gonna get that "studio sound" using my audacity and blue mic? The cutting edge technology is ultimately created exclusively for a studio.


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## jinxtigr (Apr 7, 2010)

Depends on what you're recording, how it's arranged, what your room sounds like and what converter you're using (do you mean a Blue USB mic? If so, it's gonna have more noise than a real studio- preamp noise is what really costs you)

None of this makes you not able to write a good song, so it might be a moot point 

If it is a USB mic, you might try using a laptop and recording in interesting places. Or if you can get something like a Zoom H2 and you're able to lay the major tracks/vox on that in an interesting acoustic place, you might get surprising results. Flash recorders these days have pretty amazing audio quality. I have an H2 and I could easily record acoustic stuff with it- in fact I have, for some of my more random tracks.

One of the key tricks for big studio sound is get your basic sounds so good you don't have to process them at all- that's for 'old school big studio' sound, though, not 'modern everything is really small and squished and tinny' sound


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## Bittertooth (Apr 7, 2010)

ThisisGabe said:


> x3.. i have it.. it just scares and confuses me so.. I fear it... but I have a friend on skype who's willing to teach me.. so I'll eventually .. tackle it..



I use FL Studio as well.  All DAW's are confusing and scary at first, but the best way to learn how to use a program is to use it a lot, even if you don't know what you're doing at first.  You'll gradually get the hang of things, and as long as you're having fun with it, it should be pretty easy to learn how to use it.


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## Eleziek (Apr 8, 2010)

I really wish people could get it through their head that expensive programs and shiny toys =/= good music.

Music is from the heart, not the wallet.

OP, excuse my pissy attitude, but if you're struggling with programs like FL then I would not suggest looking in to studio-grade software. Learn the tools you have now, then move on to the big guns.


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## VengeanceZ (Apr 9, 2010)

Cubase 5.


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## GatodeCafe (Apr 9, 2010)

Protools
Cubase
FL Studio
Ableton live

That said, literally anything an amateur artist would need to do is in Reaper. VSTs are fucking magical, and the vast majority are free to boot.


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## protocollie (Apr 10, 2010)

fl studio gets used a lot less professionally than imageline would like you to believe, actually.

the majority of big studios where records are produced run pro tools, the bulk of music production is done in pro tools/logic with the waves suite being the big software mastering solution.

most dance musicians use ableton live though i hear a lot about cubase as well.


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## protocollie (Apr 10, 2010)

jinxtigr said:


> One of the key tricks for big studio sound is get your basic sounds so good you don't have to process them at all- that's for 'old school big studio' sound, though, not 'modern everything is really small and squished and tinny' sound



That, and fill every band with sound then limit the shit out of it, which seems to be SOP for all big budget music these days.


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## Taren Fox (Apr 10, 2010)

Protools is the shit.


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## Shaui (Apr 11, 2010)

Adobe Audition, possibly.


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## jinxtigr (Apr 12, 2010)

protocollie said:


> fl studio gets used a lot less professionally than imageline would like you to believe, actually.
> 
> the majority of big studios where records are produced run pro tools, the bulk of music production is done in pro tools/logic with the waves suite being the big software mastering solution.
> 
> most dance musicians use ableton live though i hear a lot about cubase as well.



This 

Also, pro tools is not as ubitiquous as Digidesign would like you to believe, but it's essentially that or Logic, just as video post is Avid or Final Cut (I think I have that right?)

I wasn't aware of how much Ableton was out there but I do know about the cubase/dance connection- with that, add VST plugins. Pro Tools is going to be largely TDM/RTAS plugins, tending to be pricey like the Waves stuff, Logic does AU plugins.

Everything does VST plugins but they have a rep for not sounding good or being built from SynthMaker building blocks. It's not down to the format- VST is 32-bit float just like AU, it's TDM/RTAS that drops stuff down to 24 bit fixed point over and over. It's just that there's so much amateur VST out there, some of which is a lot more concerned with graphics than the sound of the thing.

You'll also find a fair number of rock/pop/etc (live music) studios have turned to outboard summing in attempts to get away from the pro tooliness of it all, and some of them are using the computer stuff in conjunction with huge-ass old school consoles. I have a friend in Jersey who runs Big Blue Meenie, who works on a Neve 9098i, which is one of these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Note there's still a computer! He records to 2 inch tape wherever he can, but dumps that into the computer and runs Logic- not the most recent version, which he hates passionately. He runs Logic into the desk through a hell of a lot of channels of D/A conversion. The desk is fully automated, some of the outboard not so much.


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## Slyck (Apr 14, 2010)

Most people use whatever software has the highest seeders/leechers ratio when they purchase it legally with real money.


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## protocollie (Apr 15, 2010)

jinxtigr said:


> Also, pro tools is not as ubitiquous as Digidesign would like you to believe, but it's essentially that or Logic, just as video post is Avid or Final Cut (I think I have that right?)



Yup. Avid/FCP are pretty much it in video post.

However, pro tools does have pretty deep roots in the sub-millions studio range. You'll find a LOT of smaller studios running Pro Tools with something like a digi|004 connected to their patch bay and a kontrol24 or something similar as their "mixer."

In higher end studios though you do still tend to see things like that board or any of the really big SSLs because they still produce the best sound. SSL's EQ is without a doubt one of the hottest, most rich analogue EQs on the market which is why even Waves' digital recreation costs ass loads of bank. :]


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## jinxtigr (Apr 15, 2010)

Yup. Pro Tools peaked in the early/mid 2000s and is still a huge deal. It is not, as Digi likes to imply, obligatory. The bigger studios will be on a TDM architecture, project guys will be RTAS which I think goes with Pro Tools LE or M-Powered? Yeah- TDM is the architecture where stuff gets processed on DSP cards, not the host machine. LE comes pre-crippled, I believe 

One interesting high end alternative to all that is RADAR- works like a digital tape machine, boasts better sound than the usual suspects largely due to unusually good converters, extremely rare, nobody's heard of it 

SSL sound is actually really interestingly crappy compared to real desks! The one in the picture is a Neve/Amek, with the interesting characteristic that it's SO clean it tends to sound 'clinical' or 'digital'. The bussing is insanely flexible and lossless for an analog desk.

SSL gets this interesting tizziness in the top-end that can actually work like a sort of presence boost- I have an AU plugin (Logical) which gets closer to the sound than even some newer rivals. One company, Slate, put up a 'guess which is the plugin' demo. Most people with good monitoring guessed wrong because the real SSL desk sounded cheap and thin as hell 

One thing to watch out for with Waves is they'll send people to shut down your studio, audit you, and bust you if you're pirating them. This is used against bigger studios more than project guys, but it's worth looking out for. What with that and WUP (pay for updates/bugfixes) some people actively try to avoid Waves at this point, myself included (though I don't count, I'm a plugin developer so understandably I use my own stuff)


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## DolphinSpirit (Apr 15, 2010)

GatodeCafe said:


> *Protools*
> Cubase
> FL Studio
> Ableton live
> ...



Thank you. 

I thought no one was going to say that.


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## Aikho (Apr 23, 2010)

ThisisGabe said:


> x3.. i have it.. it just scares and confuses me so.. I fear it... but I have a friend on skype who's willing to teach me.. so I'll eventually .. tackle it..



I've used FL Studio since version 4 and I've kept up to date, so I now have version 9. I'd be happy to help you out! =3 (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/aikho/)

That said, I've tried Reason, Cubase and Reaper, people told me they were better, but that is not true (No, FL Studio is not better than those either though) They are all just as good if you learn to use it. but eJay is bad, ok. Stay away from it. 

I know for a fact, many "pro"s use FL Studio, many "pro"s use Logic Pro. It doesn't matter what one uses, really. Just that you know how to use it.


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## bozzles (May 9, 2010)

The audio engineers and in-house musicians at Turner use Pro Tools.


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## kamunt (May 11, 2010)

Pro Tools is too big and expensive and makes me want to cry. I stick with FL Studio, though I've been hearing Cubase is on the rise more and more. FLS makes me want to punch babies sometimes mostly because I'm too incompetent to learn how to do the stuff I need to, especially after seeing the running project file for the winning "Friday Nights" remix. (Video below.) It was around the point when he had an automated time stretch (1:52) that I realized I still have much to learn. ._.; Even after owning it for about four years now.


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## Luchs (May 11, 2010)

I'm using FLStudio as well, and I'm rather happy with it. (I'm not one of the 'big boys', though!) If you're curious, here are two projects (and old one, and my most recent one) with the matching playlist views, both within the orchestral/fantasy genres:

*


 On Wings* (May 2010)





*


 Exotic Worlds* (Feb 2010)





Regards,

Luchs


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## Tigon (May 16, 2010)

protocollie said:


> fl studio gets used a lot less professionally than imageline would like you to believe, actually.
> 
> the majority of big studios where records are produced run pro tools, the bulk of music production is done in pro tools/logic with the waves suite being the big software mastering solution.
> 
> most dance musicians use ableton live though i hear a lot about cubase as well.




Truth. Cubase FTW


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## BlackGnosis (May 18, 2010)

I could talk out my bum, but being a skunk it will just smell bad, so I'll tell you the truth....

use what you can afford and can utilize, don't worry about big expensive pro-gear, don't care about if your recording area has dampener tiles, dont care about that shiny microphone... a majority of artists with their first albums were done using crap gear, inexpensive supplies and tools, and most importantly if there was a barrier they found a cheap way around it. I feel a bit irate when I read people pushing what magazines and other such things tell them to push....use what is practical... a inexpensive 25 dollar dynamic mic is more ideal for voice then that 500 ribbon mic from sennheiser will ever be.. sometimes that inexpensive gear will be worth its weight in gold later on. Examples of this would be the Roland TB-303, cheap little bass box that spawned a whole new era of what would soon be an industry standard sound for a cheapo little battery powered box no one wanted.....
Madonna did a majority of her recordings in a stairwell and a restroom of the recording studio she did her material at.... Basshunter used a basic ripped off copy of FL Studio from a friend to make music they are now famous for.

oh and to spoil anyone who does soft music production, every DAW [FL studio, protools, logic, cubase, reaper, whatever you're lookin at] does the same bloody thing, in a different layout.. I use FL Studio cause its stupid simple to use and I can crank out tunes how I want them to sound in a matter of hours with top notch quality. I paid 150 for my Producer license, and I gave away my licenses to reason [seemed redundant to keep it] and LOGIC [no PC support anymore, FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF] so it works for me, its simple, I use it in a hybrid studio. and I use freebie soft synths more then I do overpriced paid ones....

Have fun, Sammy


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## Slyck (May 29, 2010)

Adobe Audition for mixing and Goldwave for remastering crappy recordings.


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## Akasai (May 30, 2010)

It depends on genre half the time.

Cubase is largely popular for Drum and Bass, House and Electro. Some DnB artists that use Cubase are Sub Focus, Brookes Brothers, Danny Byrd and... Myself.

FL Studio will find itself mostly producing Rave, Trance and Hardcore music. That said - due to its signature sound that isn't hugely favoured by a lot of people, it finds itself being used as an "effects box" over anything else. Spor, Deadmau5 and Pendulum have all picked into FL for its Vocoders and Delays.

Reason, being quite restrictive with no VST support, is a bit of an underdog. Even so, its incredibly powerful and simple to use with its practical layout. Guns and Bombs, The Prodigy and Owl City use Reason, most likely rewired into another DAW do unleash its potential.

Ableton Live seems to have a career making "recorded" music, where there is very little synthesis and mostly live instruments. I've tried ableton and suffered midi sync issues and connection problems with high level outboard hardware - so I doubt it finds a lot of use professionally. It is however, largely popular for home use. "Songs to wear pants to" uses Ableton Live.

Other high-end DAWs such as Protools and Logic will usually only be found in commercial studios, even then they are usually purposed for mastering rather than making complete tracks, since nearly all electronic music is produced out of a professional setting.

None of the above have a magic "make me good" button though. Regardless of what people use, the result they achieve is through knowing the program well, and utilising it efficiently.

I will point out that FL Studio in particular has an ability to make good ideas sound bad for the novice user, due to its inclusive sample packs and lacklustre synths. This is generally what perpetuates the negativity towards that particular program by people that have chosen not to use it.


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## Tovarich Volk (Jun 14, 2010)

ThisisGabe said:


> Is there any info out there about what programs were used for songs on the billboard charts?


 
Digidesign ProTools. 

Other than that, real actual Hardware, such as Mix desks by Neve, SSL, Neotek, Trident, Harrison, Helios, and Raindirk. Reverbs by TC Electronic, Lexicon, and Sony.
 Compressors by any number of Companies, but Classics like Urei 1176, Fairchild 670, and the RCA BA-6 are lauded for their abilities, and still used a lot today even they are between 40 and 60 years old.
 Let's also not forget Neumann, Akg and Telefunken condenser mics, and Ribbon mics from RCA and Coles.


Actual Hardware is prohibitively expensive for casual musicians, (Ex, a 1950's vintage Fairchild 670 will sell for over $20,000, provided that you can find one, so VST/Rtas/DX plugins that emulate the old gear are a good investment.


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## protocollie (Jun 16, 2010)

Akasai said:


> Some stuff.


 
Dude, where do you get your information? You should really find another source, there's pretty much not one single word of this that isn't wrong.



Akasai said:


> Ableton Live seems to have a career making "recorded" music, where there is very little synthesis and mostly live instruments. I've tried ableton and suffered midi sync issues and connection problems with high level outboard hardware - so I doubt it finds a lot of use professionally.



Recent estimates put 1/2 to 3/4 of recent music on beatport at having been produced with Ableton live, and it's specifically DESIGNED to connect easily to outboard hardware and host VSTis. The whole point of ableton live is it's a sequencer you can produce in that transitions easily to live shows, interacts nicely with MIDI devices and controllers and that lets you easily tackle sync and latency issues with live gear. Out of every DAW I've ever touched it's been the most midi-friendly, ever, and sees use by almost EVERY dance act including (but not limited to) big names like Deadmau5 and Pendulum (who use it not only in the studio but on stage in their live shows) as well as Sasha (one of the biggest DJs in the world, who's so dedicated to it he had a special midi controller built specifically for live that he performs with) and Richie Hawtin. 



Akasai said:


> Other high-end DAWs such as Protools and Logic will usually only be found in commercial studios, even then they are usually purposed for mastering rather than making complete tracks, since nearly all electronic music is produced out of a professional setting.



Nearly every home studio I've ever been in that's recording oriented runs Pro Tools - I'm surprised when I see people NOT running it who are recording organic instruments. Pro tools is very, very much configured for a recording and mixing workflow as well as a mastering workflow. Logic is not not intended solely for mastering (in fact it comes with a separate external application for that purpose) and was in widespread use by EDM producers a few years back before Ableton pretty much took over. Logic's been primarily a tracker/sequencer since it was originally released on Atari.

These are the two most egregious errors, but in general the whole post is wrong.


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## greg-the-fox (Jun 16, 2010)

Akasai said:


> Other high-end DAWs such as Protools and Logic will usually only be found in commercial studios, even then they are usually purposed for mastering rather than making complete tracks, since nearly all electronic music is produced out of a professional setting.


 
Lolwhat? I produce electronica ENTIRELY with Logic, most of the time using only one 3rd party synth (sylenth1) Really you can produce excellent electronica out of the box with logic, all you need is drum samples really


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