# installing ubuntu



## DJ BassLion (Jul 4, 2009)

i was thinking about making a 10gb partision on my hard disk and installing ubuntu to it. i was wondering what could i get out of it? will i learn any new things? or should i use somthing else and not ubuntu?


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## ToeClaws (Jul 4, 2009)

Well first, be sure you read about the various alternate OS choices here: http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=854560&postcount=5

That explains some of the biggest and/or most popular choices, as well as provides all sorts of handy links to other info.  

10g is okay if you're just experimenting, but certainly not enough if you want it to become your main OS.  If you have room to spare, give it lots.  If you plan on installing it alongside Windows just for the sake of learning how to use it, then you might want to try the WUBI installer which can install the latest Ubuntu right on the native Windows partition.

If you're installing it separately, then I would recommend reading carefully as you do so you don't end up over-writing your Windows partition (seriously... I have seen people do it accidentally).

As for what you'll get out of it... well, I don't know - you'll just have to find out.  Operating systems are very much like religion in that everyone finds different reasons to like or dislike them.  What you may end up liking, for example, is the vast size of the repositories and how many apps there are for certain things (and how easy they are to install).  On the other hand, you could dislike something like the lack of a specific driver for something you own like a printer or scanner (though overall Ubuntu's support for stuff is pretty mind-boggling).

If there is but one thing I can suggest, it's just to be patient - and I say that regardless of whether it's Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora or even a different OS like Unix or the MacOS.  It takes time to get used to a completely different OS.  Windows has been around for a long time, and is SO common that most people have just grown up knowing it.  Remember that, at one point, you had to learn Windows too, so don't get too frustrated if things don't always work as you think they should - it's just that they work differently.


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## DJ BassLion (Jul 5, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Well first, be sure you read about the various alternate OS choices here: http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=854560&postcount=5
> 
> That explains some of the biggest and/or most popular choices, as well as provides all sorts of handy links to other info.
> 
> ...


mmmm sounds interesting. is there any chance i could install and boot it from a usb hard drive?


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## Irreverent (Jul 5, 2009)

DJ BassLion said:


> mmmm sounds interesting. is there any chance i could install and boot it from a usb hard drive?



Absolutely.  Grab this utility here http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/  it will download the ISO's for your fav linux distro and then make a bootable key.


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## yiffytimesnews (Jul 6, 2009)

The one thing I would advise anyone BEFORE installing any version of Linux, try out a Live CD first.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 6, 2009)

yiffytimesnews said:


> The one thing I would advise anyone BEFORE installing any version of Linux, try out a Live CD first.



^Ooo, this - yes, should have said that.  The links to each of the distributions in my first post to you will have the ISOs that you can download and burn to a CD (or to USB).  When you load it in the live CD, make sure stuff works okay, like your wireless, sound, video - etc.  Needless to say, if the liveCD doesn't boot or has big issues, then you best not proceed with the install.  These are very rare though.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 6, 2009)

yiffytimesnews: I think they all come on Live CDs now. Archlinux, Kubuntu, and Linux Mint do, at least.

OP: My advice is to skip Ubuntu and use Mint instead.

As ToeClaws (I think) put it in another thread, Mint is more polished. Ubuntu has plenty of rough edges yet, and...yeah.

10 GB is a pretty measly amount of space for an OS install. Go for the Wubi thing someone else mentioned if you wanna try it.

...hm. I've contributed nothing to the thread :/


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## Carenath (Jul 6, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> *...10 GB is a pretty measly amount of space* for an OS install. Go for the Wubi thing someone else mentioned if you wanna try it.


And this is why I loved Debian... full and complete server OS taking up just 500MB of space. Why is it, that just because hard drives have become more capacious, operating systems should eat up larger chunks of it?

Case in point:
Barebones Debian: ~500MB
Barebones Red Hat: ~800MB
Barebones Fedora: ~1.5GB
Barebones Vista: ~15GB

Something to be said for something that doesnt need the latest and greatest of hardware to run and do the same job.

On Topic: I cant add anything new that ToeClaws has not already said.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 6, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> OP: My advice is to skip Ubuntu and use Mint instead.
> 
> As ToeClaws (I think) put it in another thread, Mint is more polished. Ubuntu has plenty of rough edges yet, and...yeah.



Aye, that was me.  Mint is definitely the more polished of the two.  Mint is what you get if you take the time to add all the restricted repositories and medibuntu repositories to Ubuntu, then spent an hour (or more) tweaking it.  Ubuntu updates a bit more often, but Mint can be enabled to use the regular Ubuntu updates in addition to it's own, so it's a non-issue.  I use Mint on my own systems.



Satan Q. Jones said:


> 10 GB is a pretty measly amount of space for an OS install. Go for the Wubi thing someone else mentioned if you wanna try it.
> 
> ...hm. I've contributed nothing to the thread :/



You've verified the ideas already proposed, that or verified that you are equally insane as the rest of us.


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## Irreverent (Jul 6, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> 10 GB is a pretty measly amount of space for an OS install. Go for the Wubi thing someone else mentioned if you wanna try it.



I'm running Mint 7 and a fair selection of its add-ons off a 10 gb partition right now.  Added Skype and Filezilla, a few utilites and the whole thing is under 2.9gb so it can be done.  Mind you, I am running dedicated partitions for Grub (1gb - just because) and 2gb for swap.  So with cylindar rounding, I'm using about 14gb total for the Linux partitions.

Use the unebootin utility to make a bootable Mint live USB key and have at it.

Gparted will easily resize an NTFS partition down, but it has to be in perfect health.  Follow the instructions and run chkdsk /f/r before you start.  A defrag is a very good idea too.  GParted wont let you resize damaged ntfs partitions, only choice then is to blow it away and start over, so pay careful attention.

I installed MINT on a brand new work imaged XP machine.  Total time start to finish, including testing XP after the resize (it will run chksdsk at this time too, automatically) was about 30 minutes.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Aye, that was me.  Mint is definitely the more polished of the two.  Mint is what you get if you take the time to add all the restricted repositories and medibuntu repositories to Ubuntu, then spent an hour (or more) tweaking it.  Ubuntu updates a bit more often, but Mint can be enabled to use the regular Ubuntu updates in addition to it's own, so it's a non-issue.  I use Mint on my own systems.


I had to blow it out and put ArchLinux on after all...Mint kept borking when I ran it from my external drive, but Arch somehow didn't...

Though I have a hard drive in my comp now, so it's all good.



> You've verified the ideas already proposed, that or verified that you are equally insane as the rest of us.


All right! 



			
				Irreverent said:
			
		

> I'm running Mint 7 and a fair selection of its add-ons off a 10 gb partition right now. Added Skype and Filezilla, a few utilites and the whole thing is under 2.9gb so it can be done. Mind you, I am running dedicated partitions for Grub (1gb - just because) and 2gb for swap. So with cylindar rounding, I'm using about 14gb total for the Linux partitions.


Huh, I stand corrected ^_^;


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## Irreverent (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> I stand corrected ^_^;



I tend to run my linux configs lean, so it can be done.  The smallest linux footprint I've ever seen is Puppy or one of the pupplets.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> I tend to run my linux configs lean, so it can be done.  The smallest linux footprint I've ever seen is Puppy or one of the pupplets.


Puppy was pretty neat, but I never got it to work right. I think DSL was smaller, but it died a long time ago in any case.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> Puppy was pretty neat, but I never got it to work right. I think DSL was smaller, but it died a long time ago in any case.



Aye - DSL was intentionally kept at 50M so that it would fit on a business card CD.  That was the first micro-sized Linux I ever used.  Puppy is a vastly more polished product.  There also used to be one called Feather Linux, but I think it died too.

Currently, the smallest Linux I know of was one WarMock showed me - Tiny Core.  Basically it's nothing but the bare essentials needed to get you online so that you can download more.  Check out the size of the ISO. :mrgreen:


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Currently, the smallest Linux I know of was one WarMock showed me - Tiny Core.  Basically it's nothing but the bare essentials needed to get you online so that you can download more.  Check out the size of the ISO. :mrgreen:


My dad's a big fan of SliTaz, so that was the smallest one I knew for some time...but I must say, Tiny Core definitely has it beaten for size.

Just...wow. 7MB o_o


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

i used ubuntu for a little bit, but it was not quite what i was after. in the end i settled on a more mainstream distribution !


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> i used ubuntu for a little bit, but it was not quite what i was after. in the end i settled on a more mainstream distribution !


Have fun in the botnet, Appletard~


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> Have fun in the botnet, Appletard~


haha ! don't you mean that we ought to sit and enjoy the windozers in the botnet? my install is from a retail disk; there will be no botnet for moi.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> haha ! don't you mean that we ought to sit and enjoy the windozers in the botnet? my install is from a retail disk; there will be no botnet for moi.


http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/04/evidence-suggests-first-zombie-mac-botnet-is-active.ars

Notice the part where it says there will probably be "a new, modified variant in the future."

In the meantime, have fun with your shiny aluminum toy. Those of us who actually know how to use a computer will be here laughing at your naivety.


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/04/evidence-suggests-first-zombie-mac-botnet-is-active.ars
> 
> Notice the part where it says there will probably be "a new, modified variant in the future."
> 
> In the meantime, have fun with your shiny aluminum toy. Those of us who actually know how to use a computer will be here laughing at your naivety.


i would rather my 'first botnet' over the thousands (millions?) that plague windows users :3 congrats on disregarding relevant facts of comparison, though! well played i guess. next time you can try saying "a person without AIDS died today! that means not having AIDS is far more dangerous than having AIDS because people without it die as well". fascist reasoning takes me back, though! thanks for the memories      â™¥

i guess it is unreasonable to figure that a "have not" would see the point of paying for a better product, however :3


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## Irreverent (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> i used ubuntu for a little bit, but it was not quite what i was after. in the end i settled on a more mainstream distribution !



NetBSD isnt bad, but I don't like the fruity-white theme that gets packaged with that distro.


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> NetBSD isnt bad, but I don't like the fruity-white theme that gets packaged with that distro.


haha ! well put. i thought it was based on freeBSB, tho.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> i would rather my 'first botnet' over the thousands (millions?) that plague windows users :3 congrats on disregarding relevant facts of comparison, though! well played i guess. next time you can try saying "a person without AIDS died today! that means not having AIDS is far more dangerous than having AIDS because people without it die as well". fascist reasoning takes me back, though! thanks for the memories      â™¥



So I'm a _fascist_ for _not liking Apple?_
Christ, and here I thought certain gays were being ridiculous by comparing themselves to the other Holocaust victims.
This, however, completely takes the cake.

Hey, did you know that Apple is more "fascist" and anticompetitive than Microsoft?
It's true.
Apple sued Psystar for the "crime" of putting Mac OS on something that wasn't made by an Apple factory.
Microsoft, on the other hand, doesn't care if you put Windows on a Mac.



> i guess it is unreasonable to figure that a "have not" would see the point of paying for a better product, however :3


This may come as a shock, but being a rich kid doesn't make you right, no matter how much of a cunt you are about it.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 7, 2009)

Appletard... *snickers* Awesome, now I know what to call a co-worker that insisted on getting a MacBook Pro instead of a PC when we had to get new stations.  3 weeks on he's still trying to figure out how to get certain special apps installed - apparently the moment you go outside Apple's little reality box, things get ugly.  He's now trying to figure out how to get Ubuntu on it. :roll:


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> So I'm a _fascist_ for _not liking Apple?_
> Christ, and here I thought certain gays were being ridiculous by comparing themselves to the other Holocaust victims.
> This, however, completely takes the cake.


no. i said your _reasoning_ was fascist. you now have 10 seconds to cease your strawman argument nonsense.
...and 10. thank you. see? you can learn, too!
 


Satan Q. Jones said:


> Hey, did you know that Apple is more "fascist" and anticompetitive than Microsoft?
> It's true.
> Apple sued Psystar for the "crime" of putting Mac OS on something that wasn't made by an Apple factory.
> Microsoft, on the other hand, doesn't care if you put Windows on a Mac.


Microsoft sell an operating system. Apple sell a platform that incorporates both software and hardware; what Psystar did was in breach of the EULA of OSX and breaks the law. It would be the same as selling a version of Windows without the heinous activation process in-tact.



Satan Q. Jones said:


> This may come as a shock, but being a rich kid doesn't make you right, no matter how much of a cunt you are about it.


you don't have to be a rich kid to make smart financial decisions.


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## WarMocK (Jul 7, 2009)

Oh please, ladies and gentlemen. No OS bashing in this thread, ok? The topic is about installing ubuntu (or another linux distri, depending on the hardware configuration). ;-)

Btw: I accidently stumbled over another interesting puplet yesterday, when I was searching for a tiny IRC client for my K-9 project (I don't want to waste 1+ Megs for just showing an IRC chat on the command line ):

http://blueflops.sourceforge.net/?q=node/8

Anyone got a few spare floppies for me (and a floppy drive)?


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

WarMocK said:


> Oh please, ladies and gentlemen. No OS bashing in this thread, ok? The topic is about installing ubuntu (or another linux distri, depending on the hardware configuration). ;-)
> 
> Btw: I accidently stumbled over another interesting puplet yesterday, when I was searching for a tiny IRC client for my K-9 project (I don't want to waste 1+ Megs for just showing an IRC chat on the command line ):
> 
> ...


i entertained the notion of trying to boot linux from a 5.25" floppy, once! haha


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## ToeClaws (Jul 7, 2009)

WarMocK said:


> Oh please, ladies and gentlemen. No OS bashing in this thread, ok? The topic is about installing ubuntu (or another linux distri, depending on the hardware configuration). ;-)
> 
> Btw: I accidently stumbled over another interesting puplet yesterday, when I was searching for a tiny IRC client for my K-9 project (I don't want to waste 1+ Megs for just showing an IRC chat on the command line ):
> 
> ...



Damn!! I didn't think you could still do much via floppies.  There used to be Floppy-based Linux stuff and Minux stuff over a decade ago, but hadn't heard of anything recent.  Neat find WarMock.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:
			
		

> apparently the moment you go outside Apple's little reality box, things get ugly.


<3
It seems the discussions do, too.



Sassy said:


> no. i said your _reasoning_ was fascist. you now have 10 seconds to cease your strawman argument nonsense.



You're still using reductio ad Hitlerium over this.
Care to explain how reasoning can be fascist, also?
Last I checked, I wasn't calling for the mass slaughter of Apple users.

...though I must say, it's a pretty tempting idea.
We can put 'em in a grinding machine a la Pere Ubu and make Applesauce :twisted:



> Microsoft sell an operating system. Apple sell a platform that incorporates both software and hardware; what Psystar did was in breach of the EULA of OSX and breaks the law.



Thank you for proving my point.




> you don't have to be a rich kid to make smart financial decisions.


_I_ know that. That's why I bought a real computer instead of an Apple.

However, it's generally safe to assume one is a spoiled rich kid if 
he chooses to call somebody a "have-not".


So. On-topic: How 'bout that Ubuntu, eh?


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## ToeClaws (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> ToeClaws said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OS's tend to be about as personal as religion nowadays.  That and furries love drama.


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## WarMocK (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Damn!! I didn't think you could still do much via floppies.  There used to be Floppy-based Linux stuff and Minux stuff over a decade ago, but hadn't heard of anything recent.  Neat find WarMock.


Hehe, thanks. 
I still have a few one- or two-floppy linux distris collecting dust on some of my older machines (never tried them, though).
It's unbelievable what you can get out of less than 3 megs of space. Now I gotta find out where to get those svgalibs and install them, they could probably useful on my system whenever I leave X mode and work in my alternative environment. ^_^
BTW: if you need a tiny IRC client, try rhapsody. Only 70 kb, yet it comes with a real menu structure comparable to mp.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 7, 2009)

WarMocK said:


> Hehe, thanks.
> I still have a few one- or two-floppy linux distris collecting dust on some of my older machines (never tried them, though).
> It's unbelievable what you can get out of less than 3 megs of space. Now I gotta find out where to get those svgalibs and install them, they could probably useful on my system whenever I leave X mode and work in my alternative environment. ^_^
> BTW: if you need a tiny IRC client, try rhapsody. Only 70 kb, yet it comes with a real menu structure comparable to mp.



Nah - I've not used IRC for over a decade.  To be honest, I was surprised to see it was even still in use.


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## WarMocK (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Nah - I've not used IRC for over a decade.  To be honest, I was surprised to see it was even still in use.


Show me a substitution that is as easy to implement into browsers, stand-alone clients, or even widgets as IRC. 
Whenever you have a problem with your linux distri, the specific IRC channel is still the best and fasted way to get an answer (unless the guys in the channel  know even less than you and look for answers themselfs xD).


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> OS's tend to be about as personal as religion nowadays.  That and furries love drama.


Hm.
I have no particular love for Windows, but I despise Mac OS. What does that make me?


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> Hm.
> I have no particular love for Windows, but I despise Mac OS. What does that make me?


One of those people who hate anything that is trendy at any given point in time?


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## WarMocK (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> Hm.
> I have no particular love for Windows, but I despise Mac OS. What does that make me?


Normal. xD


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> One of those people who hate anything that is trendy at any given point in time?


Nah, I love my iPod.
If Apple just made iPods and maybe TVs or something, I'd like them a lot better.

But they don't. They brandlock people into using a computer platform designed for idiots, and employ all kinds of intellectual dishonesty to do so.

For example, they made a big deal out of this oh-so-cheap "Snow Leopard" upgrade--but they never bothered to mention that a tiny,_ tiny _fraction of Mac owners were eligible.

And then, after running their attack ads for years, they complained that Microsoft's campaign for PCs "wasn't about Windows". Funny, I don't recall their ads being called Mac vs. _Windows_.

Oh, and let's not forget the infamous iTunes updater, which downloads Safari and other things that Windows users could easily just install if they actually wanted them in the first place.

Apple's not _all_ bad. There are several advantages to their methodology--for example, the OS is all-but-guaranteed to work on any Mac, since there's much less variability in the configuration. There are, of course, cases of a Mac being defective--but that's the same with any other computer.

However, in addition to various incompatibilities with current software (almost nobody does open-source for the Mac, for example), they act more like politicians than computer manufacturers. Personally, I prefer to see attack ads for no more than one season every two years.

Plus, let's face it: You Appletards are more elitist than any Democratic candidate's been accused of being.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 7, 2009)

WarMocK said:


> Normal. xD


^ This. 

And good point WarMock.  I guess if you need an insta-answer, that's really the only way to get it.  Just never got back into IRC after I left it - was too much of a time-burner.


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> They brandlock people into using a computer platform designed for idiots, and employ all kinds of intellectual dishonesty to do so. For example, they made a big deal out of this oh-so-cheap "Snow Leopard" upgrade--but they never bothered to mention that a tiny,_ tiny _fraction of Mac owners were eligible.


A tiny fraction? Like..everybody who owns Mac OSX Leopard; which was a grand-success upon release and which has been included with every Apple PC since that date at no additional cost? Seems to be that as Snow Leopard doesn't support PPC and has a minimum requirement similar to Leopard (866Mhz CPU) then existing Leopard users will be the only ones that will be using it to begin with; so the $29 upgrade price applies to the vast majority of the people who'll need to pay for it. Some _proper_ examples of this dishonesty would help your argument more.



Satan Q. Jones said:


> Oh, and let's not forget the infamous iTunes updater, which downloads Safari and other things that Windows users could easily just install if they actually wanted them in the first place.


Is that similar to the Windows Updater that brands a vast number of legitimate users as "Pirates"; and disables features of the Operating System they paid for?


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## WarMocK (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> ^ This.
> 
> And good point WarMock.  I guess if you need an insta-answer, that's really the only way to get it.  Just never got back into IRC after I left it - was too much of a time-burner.


This is why I install an IRC client on all my linux distris in the first place. ;-)
they don't have to be fance, but they have to be there if I need help. Just select the server, enter your nickname, connect, and you're ready to go.
On the other hand: I barely ever needed the support crew's help, for some reason all the important stuff worked out of the box (and the rest followed after using some of the wizards or simply asking aunt google for help xD). The only times when I needed IRC was when I set up a firewall and when I used an earlier version of sane for my scanner.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> A tiny fraction? Like..everybody who owns Mac OSX Leopard; which was a grand-success upon release and which has been included with every Apple PC since that date at no additional cost? Seems to be that as Snow Leopard doesn't support PPC and has a minimum requirement similar to Leopard (866Mhz CPU) then existing Leopard users will be the only ones that will be using it to begin with; so the $29 upgrade price applies to the vast majority of the people who'll need to pay for it. Some _proper_ examples of this dishonesty would help your argument more.


I already mentioned Mac vs. PC. There's also the argument that the Mac OS kernel is open-source--which doesn't really fit in with the idea of an EULA.

Let's see, what else...? Oh, yeah.

About six or seven years ago, they were trying to run a campaign saying that Macs were faster than PCs because their CPUs used about three fewer steps to solve some kind of problem than a PC's. The number of steps is pretty irrelevant, however, if each one takes sufficiently longer on the PPC core than on the x86--and in any case, the differences were probably _not_ human-perceptible to begin with.

Also, Appletards are always harping on and on about how much more secure Apple is than Windows, but the end result--as shown by various Pwn2Own competitions and the Mac botnet*--is that their only solid defense comes from the Mac's smaller marketshare. If you're throwing tomatoes, it's easier to hit a barn than a motorcycle.

Let's see...while perhaps not intellectually dishonest, there's also their anticompetitive behavior to discuss. For example, did you know that iPod Shuffle headphones have a proprietary chip in them? So you have no choice _but_ to use Apple's headphones for those. Now, they don't seem to have done it to the other iPods yet--at least, they haven't done it to my Nano--but what's there to stop them?




> Is that similar to the Windows Updater that brands a vast number of legitimate users as "Pirates"; and disables features of the Operating System they paid for?


Not in the least.
For one thing, I've run pirated Windows and gotten access to all the features 
For another, it's an easy problem to solve with a quick call to tech support.
And finally, this is a fairly rare problem--unlike the Apple Updater's habit of installing _wholly-unsolicited_ software on computers, which is there by design.

* By the way, it came from pirated copies of Photoshop and iWork, not from pirated OS X itself.


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## Irreverent (Jul 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Damn!! I didn't think you could still do much via floppies.



Qnix from a long dead Ottawa software bottling company made a floppy version for x86.  You can still find it. It ran on 8086, 80286 and 8038x and may still be used on some embedded controlers/gumsticks.  512kb for the win!



ToeClaws said:


> Nah - I've not used IRC for over a decade.  To be honest, I was surprised to see it was even still in use.



Yeah, but you're old!   Come play on #holegan old man!  

And as noted by WarMock....the rest of you fanboi's BEHAVE! :evil:

You want to sling facts and muck, start another Apple vs. Windows vs. Linux thread and I'll sticky it.  Last one got nuked by the board crash.  But no name calling or insults please!


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> I already mentioned Mac vs. PC. There's also the argument that the Mac OS kernel is open-source--which doesn't really fit in with the idea of an EULA.


the obligation Apple have to the FOSS community under this arrangement is to release a certain percentage of their changes back to free source, which they do. deriving code from FOSS does not preclude you from having a fair and reasonable EULA on what is intended to be a closed and commercial product.
 


Satan Q. Jones said:


> About six or seven years ago, they were trying to run a campaign saying that Macs were faster than PCs because their CPUs used about three fewer steps to solve some kind of problem than a PC's.


flash forward to now, and how did intel take the performance crown back after they'd lost it with the Pentium 4? by reducing the length of the pipeline and simplifying the CPU process itself. yes, by reducing the number of steps.



Satan Q. Jones said:


> The number of steps is pretty irrelevant, however, if each one takes sufficiently longer on the PPC core than on the x86--and in any case, the differences were probably _not_ human-perceptible to begin with.


actually, it is fairly well benchmarked and proven that a CPU with a smaller pipeline will be efficient in a far wider variety of scenarios than one with a larger, more complex pipeline, as was the case when those ads were being run. as for the difference? perhaps you ought to compare running Mac OSX Leopard on a 1.2Ghz G4 and compare it to Windows Vista on a 1.2Ghz Pentium 3 or 4 and do some heavy photoshop work?



Satan Q. Jones said:


> Also, Appletards are always harping on and on about how much more secure Apple is than Windows, but the end result--as shown by various Pwn2Own competitions and the Mac botnet*--is that their only solid defense comes from the Mac's smaller marketshare. If you're throwing tomatoes, it's easier to hit a barn than a motorcycle.


the apple exploit in question was a combination of phishing (requiring a user to follow a provided link) and reliance on the fact that the user would enter their password when prompted. the weakest link of any software is the user, so this example is null and void. it is also worth noting that IE8 was also hacked on that day.



Satan Q. Jones said:


> Let's see...while perhaps not intellectually dishonest, there's also their anticompetitive behavior to discuss. For example, did you know that iPod Shuffle headphones have a proprietary chip in them? So you have no choice _but_ to use Apple's headphones for those. Now, they don't seem to have done it to the other iPods yet--at least, they haven't done it to my Nano--but what's there to stop them?


have you _used_ the new shuffle? the headphones have the controls integrated into the cable. that is the only thing that makes them propriatry; and there are adapters available from third parties already.



Satan Q. Jones said:


> Not in the least.
> For one thing, I've run pirated Windows and gotten access to all the features
> For another, it's an easy problem to solve with a quick call to tech support.
> And finally, this is a fairly rare problem--unlike the Apple Updater's habit of installing _wholly-unsolicited_ software on computers, which is there by design.


so therefore you need to breach your software's EULA in order to make use of it? by "rare problem" did you mean "effects millions"?



Satan Q. Jones said:


> * By the way, it came from pirated copies of Photoshop and iWork, not from pirated OS X itself.


the lesson here is simple: pay for the software you use. of course, let us all conveniently ignore and forget all the Windows pirated software out there crawling with disease, shall me?


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Jul 7, 2009)

Sassy said:


> the obligation Apple have to the FOSS community under this arrangement is to release a certain percentage of their changes back to free source, which they do. deriving code from FOSS does not preclude you from having a fair and reasonable EULA on what is intended to be a closed and commercial product.
> 
> 
> flash forward to now, and how did intel take the performance crown back after they'd lost it with the Pentium 4? by reducing the length of the pipeline and simplifying the CPU process itself. yes, by reducing the number of steps.
> ...


tl;dr.
Did you know that arrogance is a _bad_ thing?

Now, look. I'd love to stick around, but I have far more enjoyable and useful things to do than trying to educate your ADD-ridden spoiled-brat ass, such as pounding sand. So, I'll just be ignoring you from here on out, mkay?


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## Sassy (Jul 7, 2009)

Satan Q. Jones said:


> I've ran out of anything to say, because obviously you're more intelligent than me and I like to pretend I know everything - until facts are provided!


fix'd. no need to thank me :3


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## Irreverent (Jul 7, 2009)

Alright, locked.  :evil:


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