# Firearm Owners In The Fandom?



## Jarren (Aug 5, 2016)

So, how many around here are into shooting sports and/or own some boom-sticks of their own? Got any milsurp recommendations or interesting stories from the range or back woods? Looking for advice on getting started with collecting or want to show off some of your nicer specimens? Do it here.
Me? I've only got a single rifle in my collection. A little, beat up Norinco SKS. I'm looking to expand my armory, but more immediate budget concerns have prevented that.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 5, 2016)

I've got a pretty good spread.

www.furaffinity.net: (resubmission) The Arsenal @ 5/30/2016 by SSJ3Mewtwo


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## Jarren (Aug 5, 2016)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> I've got a pretty good spread.
> 
> www.furaffinity.net: (resubmission) The Arsenal @ 5/30/2016 by SSJ3Mewtwo


Lol, when I saw an admin has responded, I thought I'd violated a rule of some sort.
Nice collection. I've been debating picking up an AR, or at least a lower to build off of, but I just can't justify it, knowing how much I'll inevitably end up dumping on the build before I know it.


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## AsheSkyler (Aug 5, 2016)

I prefer archery. It's quieter. 

My cousin has a really nice hunting rifle. Never shot one before and he offered to let me try it. Owwwwwwww.

One of my neighbors has a cannon. And seems to instinctively know exactly which days I have a bad headache...


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## Julen (Aug 5, 2016)

Not yet because i'm too young but i'll get my grandfather's M1 Garand and his Mosin Nagant...one day XD
For now i just have a bunch of  ww2/Vietnam airsoft replicas :3


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## Casey Fluffbat (Aug 5, 2016)

My dad has quite a few things but I won't go into detail. I own a hunting rifle and an itty bitty 22 bolt action which is still my favorite. Don't know why, it just has charm to it. Haven't done anything with them in years, mainly because I can't camp anymore.


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## FonzieThSuperWizard (Aug 5, 2016)

I would own a lever rifle gun they use in the westerns. :3


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## Jarren (Aug 5, 2016)

FonzieThSuperWizard said:


> I would own a lever rifle gun they use in the westerns. :3


That's actually what I got started on. My dad got a little .22lr henry lever action for me to learn with back when I was about 14. Great little plinking gun, I'll have to see if he's still got it. Lever actions are cool though, but I can only imagine how much of a kick some of the larger calibre ones have.


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## KittenAdmin (Aug 5, 2016)

Own a 9 and a 20 gauge shotgun for home protection, the only gun I'd ever truly want for pleasure is an M1 Garand. That final *pink* when the last bullet is shot is too good.


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## Julen (Aug 5, 2016)

KittenAdmin said:


> the only gun I'd ever truly want for pleasure is an M1 Garand. That final *pink* when the last bullet is shot is too good.


God i love that sooooooo much as well! 
I can't wait 'till i get mine


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## Zenoth (Aug 5, 2016)

I love my Sig Sauer p238. Really miss my old lever action 30-30, was such a nice and reliable rifle.


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## Yakamaru (Aug 5, 2016)

Can't have a firearm thread without the Barret 50. caliber! For when hunting armored elephants!

Believe it or not, but you can actually buy this shit in the US. Same with a vehicle-mounted MG.


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## KittenAdmin (Aug 5, 2016)




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## Jarren (Aug 5, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Can't have a firearm thread without the Barret 50. caliber! For when hunting armored elephants!
> 
> Believe it or not, but you can actually buy this shit in the US. Same with a vehicle-mounted MG.


I'd say the vehicle mounted mg is a no go unless it was made before '86. And even then, you need a shitload of permits and need to be prepared to have the atf and fbi practically crawl up your ass with a microscope. But yeah, the Barrett is completely legal, if stupidly expensive.


KittenAdmin said:


>


Because WHY NOT?


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## Yakamaru (Aug 5, 2016)

Oh, and I am not an American btw. Nor do I own a gun. Never will own one, either.

I just find some weapons and ammunition that are in fact available commercially ridiculous. Funny as hell, but ridiculous.

Like, AP ammunition for hunting. WHY? You're not hunting armored deer. You're not "hunting Humvee's in their natural habitat".


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## Jarren (Aug 5, 2016)

If people will buy it, and it's not abused, it will be sold. That is, until someone in Washington wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and arbitrarily decides to try and ban it. I'll agree, there's no practical reason to own anything in .50bmg (or some other absurd calibres) unless you plan on fighting something heavily armored (In which case, I'm concerned), but it's good fun to go out to a friend's ranch and make some non-standard targets (like junk furniture and appliances, piles of cinder blocks, particularly menacing snowmen, etc.) cease to be. If you want a laugh, look up the .905 JDJ cartridge. The thing's almost as big as a soda can and can't be fired unbraced.


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## Ashkay Snowhunter (Aug 5, 2016)

I don't currently own any weapons, but I plan on getting a 45 handgun of some sort in January as well as at least getting an AK variant, AR15 of some form, and a good old M1 Garand at some point. I've always liked guns, though I currently just play airsoft. XD


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## Jarren (Aug 7, 2016)

Actually got some range time today for the first time in a good while. Primarily handguns and my friend's AK. Also got to put a few rounds down range from an old mosin nagant. Fired kneeling, no bench rest from just over 100 metres using iron sights, I managed a four inch group. Didn't do quite so we'll with the AK from the same range though. I need to work on my marksmanship.


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## FonzieThSuperWizard (Aug 7, 2016)

Jarren said:


> That's actually what I got started on. My dad got a little .22lr henry lever action for me to learn with back when I was about 14. Great little plinking gun, I'll have to see if he's still got it. Lever actions are cool though, but I can only imagine how much of a kick some of the larger calibre ones have.


I'll say. I've tried the lever action in Advanced Warfare and I did pretty well on it. ^w~ Though, I'm not into Call of Duty, but imagine having an actual laser gun. ^w^


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## SageTea (Aug 9, 2016)

I have a limited edition, gold plated (some of the gold plating has kind of flaked off from use though) Winchester 30-30 that I got from my grandpa! I keep it on our family land in Yoakum and mostly use it to shoot tissue boxes off hills though.


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## Jarren (Aug 9, 2016)

Ooohh, 30-30. How's the kick on that? I haven't gotten the chance to fire any lever actions larger than .22. The offerings from Henry are beautiful and have been on a wish list of mine fits a while.


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## Fopfox (Aug 9, 2016)

Don't own yet, but I intend to; sooner rather than later, in case our current PM fucks ownership rights up. Not part of his platform but...

I've gone to a few shooting ranges with rentals. Went to one in Hungary that had a lot of WWII weapons from all sides and that was fantastic (Though I found out the C96, despite looking cool, is actually shitty as hell) and when I went to Yellowstone, I got to fire a Wild West gatling gun.

I'd like to own the most infamous Canadian gun, the Ross Rifle, for history collection more than usage. Despite great range and accuracy, it's probably the worst rifle ever made during warfare.


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## SageTea (Aug 9, 2016)

Jarren said:


> Ooohh, 30-30. How's the kick on that? I haven't gotten the chance to fire any lever actions larger than .22. The offerings from Henry are beautiful and have been on a wish list of mine fits a while.


The kick is pretty hard, I'm usually a bit sore the next day if I use it too much LOL. But it's a great gun, I definitely recommend it! I also have an old pocket revolver but I can't remember the last time I used it haha.


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## Sergei Nóhomo (Aug 9, 2016)

Firearms are illegal in Canada unless you have a permit for hunting rifles and shit but why would you even want to own a firearm in the first place? Like sure in America I can understand but Canada is a nice place


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## Fopfox (Aug 9, 2016)

Sergei Nóhomo said:


> Firearms are illegal in Canada unless you have a permit for hunting rifles and shit but why would you even want to own a firearm in the first place? Like sure in America I can understand but Canada is a nice place



You can own for recreational use beyond hunting (Shooting galleries whether competitive or not.) and getting restricted (Not prohibited) rifles or handguns is just a second test a submission process. There are more restrictions than the US of course, such as magazine round caps.

And the reason? Because I enjoy shooting as a pastime.


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## SageTea (Aug 9, 2016)

Sergei Nóhomo said:


> Firearms are illegal in Canada unless you have a permit for hunting rifles and shit but why would you even want to own a firearm in the first place? Like sure in America I can understand but Canada is a nice place


Uhm we need to own them to rid the world of those horrible tissue boxes.


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## Tetrachroma (Aug 9, 2016)

My dad owns a PLR-16 and a Bullpup shotgun. I've only gone shooting twice in my life, _but God were those good times._


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 9, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> Can't have a firearm thread without the Barret 50. caliber! For when hunting armored elephants!
> 
> Believe it or not, but you can actually buy this shit in the US. Same with a vehicle-mounted MG.



Not really, no.  Different states have different regulations for different types of weapons.  Machine guns are highly restricted, as are things like .50cal rifles.  It's _possible_ to get one in some states (and in those states different counties and cities have their own restrictions), but it's not a matter of walking into a gun shop and picking one up.  There are very strict requirements to own anything like them, and the manufacture of stuff like automatic weaponry for civilian use was restricted decades ago.  Weapons manufactured before that were grandfathered, but those are largely in private collections or otherwise gradually disappearing.  They're still out there and can be purchased by people who can qualify to own them, but it's pretty limited.



Yakamaru said:


> Like, AP ammunition for hunting. WHY? You're not hunting armored deer. You're not "hunting Humvee's in their natural habitat".



Hunting is not regulated by the 2nd Amendment.  Hunting is regulated by the Department of Natural Resources and Departments of Fish and Game, and they set some pretty specific requirements on what kind of weapons can be used to legally hunt (I say weapons, because they regulate not just firearms or air-rifles, but also stuff like bows and crossbows, or live/lethal traps).  And I don't know of any region where something like armor-penetrating ammunition would be permitted for use in hunting game, and I know that in my area it's expressly forbidden (ie, if you get approached by a game warden while out in the field and they find you're carrying it, you're facing fines, loss of hunting license, and jail time).  I also can't figure where it would genuinely do any good.  Armor penetrating ammunition would make a terrible choice for either ethical hunting practice, or effective hunting practice.

Hunting ammunition is designed specifically to penetrate deeply into a body of flesh and bone while imparting a maximum amount of kinetic energy into that body, increasing the chances of a rapid and clean kill.  Armor penetrating ammunition is designed to preserve its kinetic energy, and penetrate through substances like sheets of hardened metal, concrete, or ceramic, and pass right on through.  Those are not equivalent approaches.  Firing an AP slug at something like a deer could result in the slug going right through the deer's body leaving only a tiny hole, minimal damage to vital organs, and resulting in the deer slowly and very painfully suffering for hours and hours until it expires.  This can still happen with purpose-designed hunting ammo and bad shot placement, but the hunting ammo is far more reliable in ensuring an ethical kill than something like AP, which is why it's legally required.


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## Simo (Aug 9, 2016)

Does a BB gun count? I had one, as a kid, but that's about it. And squirt guns. 

If I move back to Michigan, where my folks live, I wouldn't mind getting a dog, and some kinda very plain, 'ol basic rifle for bird-hunting, given I really love the taste of wild turkey, pheasant and grouse, and we have tons up there, due to the milder winters/global warming.

But outside of being able to take my dog out in the woods/fields, and maybe bag a bird or a rabbit for dinner, I've got no real interest in them. I don't like automatic weapons, and have no interest in handguns, and guns for protection. For me, it'd just be an adjunct to my love of nature, dogs, and cooking. But here in the city, I have absolutely no use or interest in having one.


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## nerdbat (Aug 9, 2016)

Damn, I'm afraid of Americans now


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## Yakamaru (Aug 9, 2016)

@SSJ3Mewtwo I never said those weapons and ammunition were easy to buy or even get a hold of. But the fact is, you can still get them.

My comments were meant half-way sarcastically along with being half-way serious.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 9, 2016)

Yakamaru said:


> @SSJ3Mewtwo I never said those weapons and ammunition were easy to buy or even get a hold of. But the fact is, you can still get them.
> 
> My comments were meant half-way sarcastically along with being half-way serious.



I gathered that there was some sarcasm there.  However, sarcastic or not, some of what you said was wrong, so it felt appropriate to respond fully.  Others reading the thread should get the proper context of the situation, not a parody of it.


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## Simo (Aug 9, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> Damn, I'm afraid of Americans now



Same here! In my mind, they tend to go really overboard with the 'paranoid' aspect of all this, as if at any moment, they need a gun for protection. To me, it'd be strange to live in such a psychological state, but that's just my take on matters. And after 20 years living in some iffy parts of Baltimore, near North Avenue, I still feel no need to have one.


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## Somnium (Aug 9, 2016)

Twelve gauge autoloader, .45 Long Slide with laser sighting, phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range and uzi nine millimeter. I need them all for home defense from my exes


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## ijoe (Aug 9, 2016)

Simo said:


> Same here! In my mind, they tend to go really overboard with the 'paranoid' aspect of all this, as if at any moment, they need a gun for protection. To me, it'd be strange to live in such a psychological state, but that's just my take on matters. And after 20 years living in some iffy parts of Baltimore, near North Avenue, I still feel no need to have one.



Keep in mind a lot of the gun ownership in america isn't really for home-defense in sketchy neighborhoods, so much as a giant middle finger to the federal govt. We have a pretty violent history in terms of class warfare, so the paranoia isn't going away for a while yet.



Somnium said:


> Twelve gauge autoloader, .45 Long Slide with laser sighting, phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range and uzi nine millimeter. I need them all for home defense from my exes


Isn't 40 watts a bit low (unless you have a stupidly high ROF)?


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## -Sliqq- (Aug 9, 2016)

I own some pretty fire arms 

Try not to die


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## AsheSkyler (Aug 10, 2016)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Hunting is not regulated by the 2nd Amendment.  Hunting is regulated by the Department of Natural Resources and Departments of Fish and Game, and they set some pretty specific requirements on what kind of weapons can be used to legally hunt (I say weapons, because they regulate not just firearms or air-rifles, but also stuff like bows and crossbows, or live/lethal traps).  And I don't know of any region where something like armor-penetrating ammunition would be permitted for use in hunting game, and I know that in my area it's expressly forbidden (ie, if you get approached by a game warden while out in the field and they find you're carrying it, you're facing fines, loss of hunting license, and jail time).  I also can't figure where it would genuinely do any good.  Armor penetrating ammunition would make a terrible choice for either ethical hunting practice, or effective hunting practice.
> 
> Hunting ammunition is designed specifically to penetrate deeply into a body of flesh and bone while imparting a maximum amount of kinetic energy into that body, increasing the chances of a rapid and clean kill.  Armor penetrating ammunition is designed to preserve its kinetic energy, and penetrate through substances like sheets of hardened metal, concrete, or ceramic, and pass right on through.  Those are not equivalent approaches.  Firing an AP slug at something like a deer could result in the slug going right through the deer's body leaving only a tiny hole, minimal damage to vital organs, and resulting in the deer slowly and very painfully suffering for hours and hours until it expires.  This can still happen with purpose-designed hunting ammo and bad shot placement, but the hunting ammo is far more reliable in ensuring an ethical kill than something like AP, which is why it's legally required.


Cool beans. I'd never really read into the differences in bullets before. Aside from the nastiness that is hollow points. Hunting arrows are right scary looking. They have all sorts of little razor blades sticking up on the tip so the animal will bleed out faster, for the same reasons as you listed with the bullets.



ijoe said:


> Keep in mind a lot of the gun ownership in america isn't really for home-defense in sketchy neighborhoods, so much as a giant middle finger to the federal govt. We have a pretty violent history in terms of class warfare, so the paranoia isn't going away for a while yet.


Until you get to my neck of the woods. Aside from an interest in marksmanship and hunting, most I know keep a weapon to scare off dangerous animals or kill an aggressive one. My uncle is constantly having to shoo black bears off his porch. We've had to get rid of pit vipers and coyotes on a regular basis. At least the raccoons and possums are content just to scavenge in the yard and not cause trouble. Unless you own chickens...
And then of course there are the local dogs. Most are friendly, but we've had to scare a few bad ones off that wanted to snarl and snap instead of pass on through.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 10, 2016)

ijoe said:


> Keep in mind a lot of the gun ownership in america isn't really for home-defense in sketchy neighborhoods, so much as a giant middle finger to the federal govt. We have a pretty violent history in terms of class warfare, so the paranoia isn't going away for a while yet.



The 'middle finger to the government' angle is present, yeah.  But the vaaaaaaast majority of gun ownership falls into three big catagories:

a)  Personal defense
b)  Home defense (and if it's a case where the individual/family own only one gun, sometimes it's used for both.  The person takes it with them when they head out for the day, and keep it in a fast-access safe or other location when in the house)
c)  Recreational shooting (competition too, if they do stuff like tournaments/leagues.

I'm pretty sure hunting actually comes in (and I'm talking national average, not specific states or regions where it can be much more important) as a fourth category, below the other three.  I really am not sure on the numbers there.

Probably below all of those is the whole screw the government thing.



AsheSkyler said:


> Cool beans. I'd never really read into the differences in bullets before. Aside from the nastiness that is hollow points. Hunting arrows are right scary looking. They have all sorts of little razor blades sticking up on the tip so the animal will bleed out faster, for the same reasons as you listed with the bullets.



Check out this beast:


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## Somnium (Aug 10, 2016)

Americans watch way too many movies if they believe a gun can save their lifes. I will cut my my left testicle off if they don't have a higher change of dying in a crime scene or ending in prison for a homicide or in a graveyard for a suicide.


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## Jarren (Aug 10, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Americans watch way too many movies if they believe a gun can save their lifes. I will cut my my left testicle off if they don't have a higher change of dying in a crime scene or ending in prison for a homicide or in a graveyard for a suicide.


It's like having a fire extinguisher (with regards to the self defense mentality). I'm not expecting a fire, not looking to cause one, and hope I never need to deal with one. I'm not gonna pick up a fire extinguisher and go try to save the neighbor's house, and regardless of situation the professionals will do a better job when they show up. In the mean time, why not be prepared on the off chance I need to act. It's the same reason I've got a first aid kit and BVM I'm my vehicle and always carry an EMT knife. I've got the training and equipment if ever it's needed. Barring that, it's a great conversation starter.


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## SageTea (Aug 10, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Americans watch way too many movies if they believe a gun can save their lifes. I will cut my my left testicle off if they don't have a higher change of dying in a crime scene or ending in prison for a homicide or in a graveyard for a suicide.


Guns have protected people and their homes from others with ill intent countless times. Yes, there are also times where owning a gun hasn't saved someone but it's much safer (depending on where you live) in my opinion to own one than to not. It's not just random people being influenced by movies. Also, I have no idea where you're getting these statistics from about a gun owner having a higher rate of dying at the hands of a criminal, ending up in prison for homicide, or killing themself than being protected. I think you've been influenced by stereotypes that you might have heard of or seen on TV.


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## Somnium (Aug 10, 2016)

SageTea said:


> Guns have protected people and their homes from others with ill intent countless times. Yes, there are also times where owning a gun hasn't saved someone but it's much safer (depending on where you live) in my opinion to own one than to not. It's not just random people being influenced by movies. Also, I have no idea where you're getting these statistics from about a gun owner having a higher rate of dying at the hands of a criminal, ending up in prison for homicide, or killing themself than being protected. I think you've been influenced by stereotypes that you might have heard of or seen on TV.



Honey it's all common sense to me. Yea in a perfect world guns could help, but in reality the vast majority of gun owners have no training and simply couldn't make a right decision especially when things get hot. Even professionals makes mistakes. And no one wants to kill you anyway as long as you don't appear as a treat. Having a gun makes you look pretty dangerous. Just do what you're told and things will be fine. It's much safer than getting into fight with deadly weapons imo. As for suicides, having a gun makes them too easy.


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## TeslaSkunk (Aug 10, 2016)

Im not a fan of guns in the absolute SLIGHTEST, and that way I actually feel safer in the UK where they are extremely prohibited. Im not going to bash anyone for having a belief thats different from what is mine, so here it is: I would rather see guns and the concepts of civilians wielding handheld weaponry phased out over time. To me, theres nothing more chilling than the thought that my neighbour could have a means to kill someone in their house. And from what I have seen in the news, I have seen more and more negative influences of these... now yes you can bash me for taking in the medias negativity traps, and you are right, the media like to manipulate and put a biased twist on things, but in the end of the day, all you need to do is look at the statistics and where they are from, that should be enough to show that gun crime especially in the USA is a lot more of a prominent threat than in other countries.


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## SageTea (Aug 10, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Honey it's all common sense to me. Yea in a perfect world guns could help, but in reality the vast majority of gun owners have no training and simply couldn't make a right decision especially when things get hot. Even professionals makes mistakes. And no one wants to kill you anyway as long as you don't appear as a treat. Having a gun makes you look pretty dangerous. Just do what you're told and things will be fine. It's much safer than getting into fight with deadly weapons imo. As for suicides, having a gun makes them too easy.


Firstly, the reason I responded so strongly to your previous post was because it was a bit insulting. Secondly, you're basing the ability to make a "right decision" on training and not common sense. "And no one wants to kill you as long as you don't appear as a threat" ... go tell that to all the serial killers, rapist, and burglers. None of their victims were threats. And yes, having a gun does make you look dangerous. That's the point so you can protect yourself. most gun owners aren't going and picking fights with deadly weapons. They're only keeping them for protection in a desperate situation, or for recreational uses. Also, not owning a gun won't stop someone from commiting scuicide who's truly commited to it. You'd have to lock them in a padded room to try to stop them. The best thing you can do for someone like that is let them know how much you care about them.


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## SageTea (Aug 10, 2016)

TeslaSkunk said:


> Im not a fan of guns in the absolute SLIGHTEST, and that way I actually feel safer in the UK where they are extremely prohibited. Im not going to bash anyone for having a belief thats different from what is mine, so here it is: I would rather see guns and the concepts of civilians wielding handheld weaponry phased out over time. To me, theres nothing more chilling than the thought that my neighbour could have a means to kill someone in their house. And from what I have seen in the news, I have seen more and more negative influences of these... now yes you can bash me for taking in the medias negativity traps, and you are right, the media like to manipulate and put a biased twist on things, but in the end of the day, all you need to do is look at the statistics and where they are from, that should be enough to show that gun crime especially in the USA is a lot more of a prominent threat than in other countries.


I can see what you're saying. However, that's gun crime alone. If someone wants to harm someone or break a law, not owning a gun isn't going to stop them.


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## Jarren (Aug 10, 2016)

Suicide, from a purely mechanical standpoint, is very easy considering how fragile the human body is (psyching yourself into doing it is another matter entirely). Guns don't so much make it easy as they do efficient (no need to access a high place, force down a stupid amount of pills, tie a noose, etc.). Yes, most weapon owners in the US lack the training to respond ideally to a threat with their firearm (hell, I practice regularly and I'd hardly trust myself to make the ideal decision under pressure. That's why, along with financial limitations, I don't carry yet.). That said, I've heard enough evidence from my fiends to warrant my ownership of a gun. The friend who got me seriously into the hobby was only able to force an intruder out of his house (and prevent the probable rape of his girlfriend) because he had a firearm.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 10, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Honey it's all common sense to me. Yea in a perfect world guns could help, but in reality the vast majority of gun owners have no training and simply couldn't make a right decision especially when things get hot.



Some gun owners do not have training and they should.

Many, however, do have at least basic knowledge of the weapons they own and how they should be responsibly used.  

Your phrasing did say 'the vast majority of gun owners have no training' though.  So...got some sources to back that up?  In my state there are at least some training requirements to get a handgun license.  Not as much as I feel there should be, but there are some.  That's in direct contradiction to what you said.  So, got some sources saying that "the vast majority of gun owners have no training"?



> Even professionals makes mistakes.



Correct, and they should be held accountable when they do.



> And no one wants to kill you anyway as long as you don't appear as a treat.



I think you meant 'threat'.

And sadly, no.  It's not just a US situation where people break into homes and kill the person living there in order to rob them.  That's a world-wide phenomena, and it's one of the many reason why in the US people value the right to keep and bare arms in their homes.  It's made the difference in more times than can be counted in someone who might have been killed by a violent intruder being able to defend themselves.  

And no, in a sadly large number of cases, individuals DO want to hurt those they victimize, including killing them.



> Having a gun makes you look pretty dangerous.



Agreed.  I really don't side with the open-carry that some areas in the US permit.  It just seems to invite trouble.  If you want to carry a firearm on you, keep it concealed, as long as it's legal where you are.



> Just do what you're told and things will be fine. It's much safer than getting into fight with deadly weapons imo.



It _can be safer._  But then it opens up the question of what could happen if someone who never gets opposed by victims decides to make their life by just robbing or victimizing others who won't stop them.  Yes, bad people do have guns, and some of those bad people do use them to kill.  It's not right to expect them to not kill, since if they're going to draw something like a lethal weapon on someone else it's entirely reasonable to expect them to use it.  It's okay for someone to expect police to intervene...But police or law-enforcement can only intervene _after_ a crime has commenced.  If someone's life is in danger, it's entirely in their right to make every effort to protect themselves, or protect others.



> As for suicides, having a gun makes them too easy.



Agreed.  It's one of the reasons I support the idea of background checks including mental health concerns.  I wish they were more thorough in the US.


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## Casey Fluffbat (Aug 10, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Americans watch way too many movies if they believe a gun can save their lifes. I will cut my my left testicle off if they don't have a higher change of dying in a crime scene or ending in prison for a homicide or in a graveyard for a suicide.



If you're wrong:





Pics or didn't happen.


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## Somnium (Aug 10, 2016)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> And sadly, no. It's not just a US situation where people break into homes and kill the person living there in order to rob them. That's a world-wide phenomena, and it's one of the many reason why in the US people value the right to keep and bare arms in their homes. It's made the difference in more times than can be counted in someone who might have been killed by a violent intruder being able to defend themselves.
> 
> And no, in a sadly large number of cases, individuals DO want to hurt those they victimize, including killing them.



What really!? It just doesn't make any sense. I imagine thieves are only nterested in your stuff, which you have no right to defend with deadly force, instead of your life. If someone wants your life, you will be dead before you even know even know what's going on.



SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> It _can be safer._ But then it opens up the question of what could happen if someone who never gets opposed by victims decides to make their life by just robbing or victimizing others who won't stop them. Yes, bad people do have guns, and some of those bad people do use them to kill. It's not right to expect them to not kill, since if they're going to draw something like a lethal weapon on someone else it's entirely reasonable to expect them to use it.



They will kill only if you do stupid shit. The whole point of threatening is to force to comply. 



SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Correct, and they should be held accountable when they do.



Professional are still humans, they have emotions and can't know everything. How many friendly family dogs were killed by police officers? How many professional soldiers were afraid of enemies showering bullets at them?


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 10, 2016)

Ya know, if you live in a country where you can't have firearms, why are you posting in this thread anyway? Kind of pointless. I'm ex-military that earned his combat pay, had a short stint as an LEO after the military. The wife is former LEO, too. I also have a small arsenal inside LOCKED GUN SAFES. Good luck getting your mitts on any of those. There is a .44 mag wheelgun with a pair of speedloaders and a Saiga 12 with two spare magazines available at very short notice to defend my domicile. As a point, I have defended my home against armed robbers. Without that protection, my family and I would have all died.

The second amendment: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That's what our founding fathers wanted. In those days, a militia were armed civilians that could be called up quickly to bolster the regular military. That fine tradition carries on to this day, because of the Second Amendment. Why do you think other countries haven't tried to invade the USA? It's one thing to have military popping 5.56 NATO rounds at you, it's another thing altogether to have subsistence hunters with large bore rifles and good scopes, picking you off from across the valley.

Sorry for the rant, this is a sore subject for me. Firearms don't kill people, people kill people. I understand Australia still has a high crime rate with a thriving black market for any type of firearm and ammunition. A shame, really. Does everybody believe the criminals turned in their weapons? I don't think so. Even if there were no firearms, what's next? Now you have to register your carpenter's hammer. It also becomes illegal to carry a 2x4 shorter than six feet long. Get my drift?

On a lighter note, the first day I had my new-to-me DCM issued M1 Garand at the range, my dear brother garnered himself an M1 Thumb. You have to hold the bolt open while inserting the Enbloc clip. Once it's home, the bolt will slam home with gusto if you're not holding it. that bolt bites hard.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 10, 2016)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Ya know, if you live in a country where you can't have firearms, why are you posting in this thread anyway? Kind of pointless.



This is a forum with international reach.

That is a GOOD thing, make no mistake about that.  

It means that you'll get wide perspective in response and multiple viewpoints.  

Keep your responses focused on the points of those you are addressing, not their point of origin.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 11, 2016)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> This is a forum with international reach.
> 
> That is a GOOD thing, make no mistake about that.
> 
> ...



Yeah, um, sorry for the rant earlier. I was still fired up by having to deal with an anti-gunner at my front door, wanting me to sign a petition banning just about everything in my small arsenal. I'm telling them NO, I will not sign it, still holding my .44 caliber cleaning jag (had been at the range) and the wife is cooking some of last winter's kill for dinner. After I shooed the anti-gunner away, I had to go sit in the corner for a bit to cool off. Geez, couldn't she smell the Hoppes #9 and the venison cooking?

Did I tell you about my brother's M1 Thumb? I qualified through the Department of Civilian Marksmanship "DCM" and they sent me a M1 Garand for a small pittance. 1956 IHC variant, pristine unused condition and probably my favorite military battle rifle. It came packed in lots of cosmoline so it took me a day to clean it properly. Went to the range the next day and despite my demonstrating correct form in charging the piece, my sibling thought he knew better. Took his thumbnail right off. It will hold 1 MOA at 100 yards all day long. Used it at Camp Perry the next year. I think there's a YouTube vid of some guy barking his thumb with a Garand, trying to be cool for the camera.

My oldest daughter proved you can get Russian SKS Thumb, too. That SKS is a milled receiver piece. Probably the only semi-auto rifle I might not have to register to satisfy the needs of The Peoples Republic Of Kalifornistan. Fixed magazine, you know.

Actually too many to list them all, so here's the highlights. 2 Dragunov SVD rifles, bought on sale at Traders (defunct) in San Leandro. I think I gave $300 for each one with case, cleaning kits and spare magazines. I also went to buy a third, only to find it was not a Dragunov SVD Sniper. How about a Russian Tigr Hunting Rifle for $300? Like the SVD, only with a more conventional walnut stock. Only came with 5 round magazines, though. The 7.62 X 54R ammo is getting hard to buy milsurp, btw.

I have three XM177E2 rifles (Air Force style M16) that I built from parts as semi-auto .22rf only. Nodak Spud slickside receivers, CMMG no forward assist uppers and bolt assemblies. All three carry 'Nam-era Mattel mfg'd stocks and forearms. I would guess that my family and I might never wear these out at the range.

We do subsistence hunt just about every year. We generally use either one of the various calibers of Remington 7400 Semi-auto hunting rifles or a Saiga IZ-132/133 in 7.62X39. I like the Remingtons for the smooth actions but I also like the Saiga for dependability. I dropped one in a muddy creek one year, just fished it out, used some creek water to rinse it out, blew out the water and reloaded it with fresh ammo. Took a six point buck that same day with that rifle. If you get a chance to buy one used, get it. Well worth the money. The trigger isn't all that great but it works. Be sure to get a real Izhmash scope mount for it.

The only things in my collection that seem out of place is the aforementioned MacMillan .50BMG that was rebarreled to .416 Barrett. Really too expensive to shoot. I have a Freedom Arms mini-revolver in .22 short. That thing is so small, a petite lady could hold three of them  in one hand, no problems. The last one is a Magnum Research BFR revolver in .45-70 caliber. Kinda big, sorta heavy, 'some' recoil. We ate moose that year after I worked up some hunting loads for it.

I also have a Hoyt Montega compound bow that has filled the freezer and I have been known to use a Kodiak black powder rifle to hunt in Black Powder season. Won't be hunting this season because the chest freezer is giving out and we will have to replace it before going hunting again. Just keeping an eye out for a good deal at Lowes, Sears or Airport Appliances.


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## Jarren (Aug 11, 2016)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The Peoples Republic Of Kalifornistan.


You poor bastard. 
On another note, how the hell did you get your hands on an SVD for $300? I can't find find any around me for under $1500, if I can find them at all. Are you some sort of haggling wizard?


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## Somnium (Aug 11, 2016)

@Kellan Meig'h so you were a part of the war machine by your own will? That tells me a lot. Guns saved your family? A simply security alarm would have likely done the same.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 11, 2016)

Jarren said:


> You poor bastard.
> On another note, how the hell did you get your hands on an SVD for $300? I can't find find any around me for under $1500, if I can find them at all. Are you some sort of haggling wizard?



This was the free-wheeling '70's when this was going on. Y'all have to remember-I'm old enough to be all y'all's grandfather. things were different back then.



Somnium said:


> @Kellan Meig'h so you were a part of the war machine by your own will? That tells me a lot. Guns saved your family? A simply security alarm would have likely done the same.



It was our monitored intrusion alarm that woke us up. All of the doors & windows on the back of the house were set for "Instant" and I did shout at them numerous times, warning them I was armed and my brethren were on the way. They didn't care if the alarm was going off, unlike the commercials on the boob tube that shows a burglar jamming after the alarm goes off.

Since I now work in a job that has me installing and maintaining intrusion alarms as part of my work, I can tell you that even if the alarm goes off, it's several minutes before a call is made from the monitoring company to the police. They will try to call you, the alarm owner, verifying the alarm first. The bad guys have at least fifteen minutes before they have to leave the house, goodies in hand. It's going to take that long before the constabulary finally arrive and in most cases, just one officer.

Never trust an intrusion alarm to be your sole source of protection. It just lulls you into a false sense of security. The fact is, the police can't sit down the street from your house, waiting for you to need them. They're off somewhere, doing their job. Only so many police to a city. Always have a backup play or three, just in case the long arm of the law can't get there in a few minutes. When it comes to your safety, do not be a pacifist.


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## AsheSkyler (Aug 11, 2016)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Check out this beast:


That looks really painful. And I got a kick out of the hazard sign incorporated into the head. 



Somnium said:


> Americans watch way too many movies if they believe a gun can save their lifes. I will cut my my left testicle off if they don't have a higher change of dying in a crime scene or ending in prison for a homicide or in a graveyard for a suicide.


Until you have had to chop the business end of a copperhead off with a hoe, or had to defend yourself with other farming equipment against an angry varmint that pops up out of nowhere, I reject any judgment you pass on me for wanting a projectile weapon around.

As for human attackers, well, I find alternative methods so much more satisfying.


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## Somnium (Aug 11, 2016)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> This was the free-wheeling '70's when this was going on. Y'all have to remember-I'm old enough to be all y'all's grandfather. things were different back then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



aye. I'm no burglar myself but I imagine when the alarm goes off a criminal will either flee or be in a real hurry, definitely not bother flipping beds searching for you. In fact he would be much happier if you weren't there at all.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 12, 2016)

Somnium said:


> aye. I'm no burglar myself but I imagine when the alarm goes off a criminal will either flee or be in a real hurry, definitely not bother flipping beds searching for you. In fact he would be much happier if you weren't there at all.



the problem in a lot of areas is that an alarm just tells the thief he has about fifteen minutes to do his handiwork and get out. Just last night, one of my sites had a break-in. It was monitored, the alarm is a central office monitored with audible unit, a Caddx NX-8E. They left with about fifty laptops, new still in the box. Now that had to take more than a few minutes. I tested the alarm, it works as advertised.

The burglar comes armed, just in case you are home. They know if they shoot you, the noise means nothing. Now they can finish their work and get out. As an aside, our beds are too low to fit under.

Also, if you hit an intruder with a six-cell Maglite, use the reflector end. Do not use the butt end because the courts will now interpret the flashlight as a weapon. Advice from a retired LEO.



Kioskask said:


> It's illegal to own most firearms here, so I haven't a single thing.



Not even an air rifle? We have a ton of fun shooting at 10 meters with our ancient .22 caliber Sheridan rifles.


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## Somnium (Aug 12, 2016)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The burglar comes armed, just in case you are home. They know if they shoot you, the noise means nothing. Now they can finish their work and get out.



Why would they shoot you instead of shouting get your face to the ground and don't move? Doesn't take a genius to realize a murder is far worse than a stolen loptop, plus no unnecessary noise, especially if the house didn't have an alarm. Hell they can even force you to show where's the safe at and unlock it. 



Kellan Meig'h said:


> Also, if you hit an intruder with a six-cell Maglite, use the reflector end. Do not use the butt end because the courts will now interpret the flashlight as a weapon. Advice from a retired LEO.



I would rather be in jail than dead with my whole family killed. Seriously if this is something you can consider you shouldn't be resorting to violence in the first place.


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## Jarren (Jan 7, 2017)

Seeing as reviving threads has been the thing to do lately (it would seem), I'm gonna bring this thing back to life, as I feel that more discussion can be had.

Anyway, I just picked up this gem at a local gun show today. I spent the last two hours cleaning her and making sure everything is as spotless as an old milsurp rifle can be:




1925 Mosin Nagant m91/30. Hexagonal receiver.
Complete with bayonet, ammo pouches, cleaning kit, and sling.
All serial numbers match (even the bayonet!) and the rifling is spotless.
It was an absolute steal, too.
The rubberized buttpad I just threw on there because, in my experience shooting these, they will leave a bruise if they want to.
I'll probably take it out to the range tomorrow for some test firing and see if the sights need adjusting (provided work doesn't summon me).
@Julen I think you'd appreciate this. Am I slav enough? 

In other news, does anyone know a good way to remove cosmoline from clothing?
...Or scales?


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## reptile logic (Jan 7, 2017)

Had one of those at one time; built by Westinghouse, USA in 1913, I believe. (Yes, a Russian weapon built in the US). Sold it some time ago, as well as most of my collection. I just have two pistols these days; my favorite shooter and an old revolver that belonged to my grandfather.

I don't have a clue how best to remove the cosmoline, but try a shot of automotive brake cleaner in an inconspicuous area.


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## Jarren (Jan 7, 2017)

reptile logic said:


> Had one of those at one time; built by Westinghouse, USA in 1913, I believe. (Yes, a Russian weapon built in the US). Sold it some time ago, as well as most of my collection. I just have two pistols these days; my favorite shooter and an old revolver that belonged to my grandfather.
> 
> I don't have a clue how best to remove the cosmoline, but try a shot of automotive brake cleaner in an inconspicuous area.


At first I thought you'd confused the M9130 with the M1903 when you mentioned an American built Mosin. But a quick google search left me pleasantly surprised. I didn't know we'd produced the good 'ol garbage rod here in the US. That's neat!

Also, what kind of revolver is it? I might end up inheriting my grandfather's old S&W .38 special.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 7, 2017)

Word of advice. Don't buy a Smith and Wesson M&P Bodyguard. The magazine lock is plastic and breaks. I aint even shot it yet!!! Good thing they have a lifetime warranty.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 7, 2017)

Mossberg 20 Guage and 410 Guage. Both pump action. Marlin 22. New England Arms 20 Guage, single shot. .45 Tanfoglio. 25 Barretta. 22 Ruger. Jamenez Arms 380.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 8, 2017)

Jarren said:


> In other news, does anyone know a good way to remove cosmoline from clothing?
> ...Or scales?


You remove cosmoline from clothing by throwing the articles away. Scales? Um . . .

Seriously, I have rags that still reek of cosmoline from thirty years ago. They have been washed an untold number of times.

On a somewhat sad note, the Peoples Republik Of Kalifornistan recently enacted a magazine ban. As of July 1, 2017 no removable magazines over ten round capacity, even if you owned them before the ban. Needless to say, the old warhorse is not happy. I sent the first of several boxes of magazines to my oldest daughter that lives in a more firearm-friendly state.


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## Xaroin (Jan 8, 2017)

I like guns, rarely get to shoot them though.
I'm still very decent at shooting stuff too.


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## davydonovan (Jan 8, 2017)

Guns I love gun!
JP AR15, IWI Desert Eagle 50 & 44 mag, Mossberg 500 12ga, Wilson Combat 1911 A1, Franchi spas 12, and so many more. I even do alot of my own smith work.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 8, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> You remove cosmoline from clothing by throwing the articles away. Scales? Um . . .
> 
> Seriously, I have rags that still reek of cosmoline from thirty years ago. They have been washed an untold number of times.
> 
> On a somewhat sad note, the Peoples Republik Of Kalifornistan recently enacted a magazine ban. As of July 1, 2017 no removable magazines over ten round capacity, even if you owned them before the ban. Needless to say, the old warhorse is not happy. I sent the first of several boxes of magazines to my oldest daughter that lives in a more firearm-friendly state.


And what's funny about that is all the gangbangers runnin round the ganglands with thirty round mags in their 7.62 slinging sks and aks. People never learn. God Bless 'Merica!


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 8, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> And what's funny about that is all the gangbangers runnin round the ganglands with thirty round mags in their 7.62 slinging sks and aks. People never learn. God Bless 'Merica!


I've been researching a modification of the AR & AK pattern magazines. It may be possible to make a tubular sheetmetal extension to weld onto the follower, reducing the capacity to ten rounds. By carfully TIG welding the extensions onto the corners of the follower, it would possible to use a Dremel to cut away that extension once I move out of Kommiefornia, returning full capacity to the mag. Would have to be a steel extension for a steel follower, aluminum for aluminum, etc.

Now, think of an LEO arresting you for what appears to be an illegal 30 round AK magazine, only to be owned when someone (his shift commander, maybe?) tries to get that eleventh round to go in.

Already been through this with the .22lr-only AR pattern rifles. The LEO, thinking I was a smart-@$$ at the range, got pissed when I couldn't produce the 5.56 NATO magazines for them. There were none-dedicated .22lr only. He then went to his cruiser and retrieved one of his magazines, that while it would seat in the magazine well, the bolt wouldn't strip off a round. He then tried to manually insert a round into the chamber, only to discover the bolt for .22lr only that was preventing his being a full on 'tard. He handed the rifle back to the rangemaster, took the cuffs off of me and left without saying a word.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 8, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I've been researching a modification of the AR & AK pattern magazines. It may be possible to make a tubular sheetmetal extension to weld onto the follower, reducing the capacity to ten rounds. By carfully TIG welding the extensions onto the corners of the follower, it would possible to use a Dremel to cut away that extension once I move out of Kommiefornia, returning full capacity to the mag. Would have to be a steel extension for a steel follower, aluminum for aluminum, etc.
> 
> Now, think of an LEO arresting you for what appears to be an illegal 30 round AK magazine, only to be owned when someone (his shift commander, maybe?) tries to get that eleventh round to go in.
> 
> Already been through this with the .22lr-only AR pattern rifles. The LEO, thinking I was a smart-@$$ at the range, got pissed when I couldn't produce the 5.56 NATO magazines for them. There were none-dedicated .22lr only. He then went to his cruiser and retrieved one of his magazines, that while it would seat in the magazine well, the bolt wouldn't strip off a round. He then tried to manually insert a round into the chamber, only to discover the bolt for .22lr only that was preventing his being a full on 'tard. He handed the rifle back to the rangemaster, took the cuffs off of me and left without saying a word.


Sorry to hear you got harassed.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 8, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Sorry to hear you got harassed.


I was still an LEO at the time so I went to see his shift commander the next day _*in uniform*_. We discussed his actions, specifically his failure to acknowledge my badge in its holder when he asked for ID, his cuffing me with no explanation and his exit with no explanation, even if he had been owned by his failure to listen to the rangemaster, who knew they were .22lr only. It was a 'tard single shot target shooter that had called the Sheriff, complaining about my obviously illegal rifles.

.22lr rifles in Kommiefornia (so far) do not fall under the scrutiny of being 'Assault Weapons', a term made up by the media to scare the populace. I can have a pistol grip, a flash hider and removable magazines that do not require a tool (bullet button) to remove them.

I recently had my McMillan .50BMG rebarreled/rechambered to .416 Barrett. It no longer falls under the .50 restriction laws of Kommiefornia and as an aside, it has a higher downrange knock-down number as well. Still too expensive to shoot more than once a year.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 8, 2017)

Somnium said:


> @Kellan Meig'h so you were a part of the war machine by your own will? That tells me a lot. Guns saved your family? A simply security alarm would have likely done the same.


Sorry if I missed this. I was drafted, FYI. I served my country only to come home to a town that had grown bigger and seedier. BTW, security alarms are not hardly worth the effort anymore.

Yes, two meth-heads broke into my ADT alarm-equipped house. I was woke up by the keypad in our bedroom beeping to remind me the house had just been broken into. The whole thing ended with one perp DOA and one down. That alarm was set to only sound at the keypads. It didn't stop them, though because they came through a door right by the downstairs keypad. They were making their way up the stairs when they engaged me. My brethren didn't arrive until fourteen minutes later and it was over five minutes before ADT called to verify the activation. Yeah, that.

We moved to a better part of the 'burbs the next week. Sold our old house in a huge hurry, probably left $70k on the table when we moved. By law we had to disclose the shooting and the subsequent death in the house when we sold it. So, not only did they shake us up so bad that we moved, the actions of that night reduced the value of our home.

Did I mention my brother got the imfamous M1 thumb first time out with the rifle? Gotta watch that bolt when you're loading a Garand . . .


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 9, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I was still an LEO at the time so I went to see his shift commander the next day _*in uniform*_. We discussed his actions, specifically his failure to acknowledge my badge in its holder when he asked for ID, his cuffing me with no explanation and his exit with no explanation, even if he had been owned by his failure to listen to the rangemaster, who knew they were .22lr only. It was a 'tard single shot target shooter that had called the Sheriff, complaining about my obviously illegal rifles.
> 
> .22lr rifles in Kommiefornia (so far) do not fall under the scrutiny of being 'Assault Weapons', a term made up by the media to scare the populace. I can have a pistol grip, a flash hider and removable magazines that do not require a tool (bullet button) to remove them.
> 
> I recently had my McMillan .50BMG rebarreled/rechambered to .416 Barrett. It no longer falls under the .50 restriction laws of Kommiefornia and as an aside, it has a higher downrange knock-down number as well. Still too expensive to shoot more than once a year.


Nice.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 9, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Sorry if I missed this. I was drafted, FYI. I served my country only to come home to a town that had grown bigger and seedier. BTW, security alarms are not hardly worth the effort anymore.
> 
> Yes, two meth-heads broke into my ADT alarm-equipped house. I was woke up by the keypad in our bedroom beeping to remind me the house had just been broken into. The whole thing ended with one perp DOA and one down. That alarm was set to only sound at the keypads. It didn't stop them, though because they came through a door right by the downstairs keypad. They were making their way up the stairs when they engaged me. My brethren didn't arrive until fourteen minutes later and it was over five minutes before ADT called to verify the activation. Yeah, that.
> 
> ...


Yeah, some people think they are Chuck Norris when it comes to bad guys. All the crap they think about when bitching about people owning firearms and carrying them tend to go right out the window when someone is coming at them with a knife or gun in their hands with the intention of hurting or killing them. A firearm is like a condom, I would rather have one and never need it, than need one and not have it. I have carried for 21 years now, and have only ever had to pull it one time, and that was 16 years ago. A crazed crackhead no less. Noone got shot. Sure shook me up though.


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## Sarachaga (Jan 9, 2017)

Actually I was wondering about something. I've never been to a country where owning a firearm was legal for purposes other than hunting/collecting. First question, which is maybe a bit stupid: how do people talk/interact with firearms in the US? Is it like a casual interaction, or do people avoid the topic/avoid interacting with firearms?
Also, I understand the need to have a gun to defend yourself(especially if everyone has guns), but besides that, are there lot's of people who're just into collecting?
Lastly, besides for collection purposes, can people buy things like sniper rifles or automatic rifles?
Again, sorry if my questions seem dull. That's really something I don't know/understand.


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## Julen (Jan 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> but there's nothing that makes me go all gooey like the nostalgic sentimentality and pure Americana of an M1 Garand.


This

This is beautiful


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 9, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> Actually I was wondering about something. I've never been to a country where owning a firearm was legal for purposes other than hunting/collecting. First question, which is maybe a bit stupid: how do people talk/interact with firearms in the US? Is it like a casual interaction, or do people avoid the topic/avoid interacting with firearms?
> Also, I understand the need to have a gun to defend yourself(especially if everyone has guns), but besides that, are there lot's of people who're just into collecting?
> Lastly, besides for collection purposes, can people buy things like sniper rifles or automatic rifles?
> Again, sorry if my questions seem dull. That's really something I don't know/understand.


Here in the USA you can buy justvabout anything if you have a Federal Firearms License. And plenty of people collect. My firearms serve a purpose, to protect and defend myself and my family. Responsible firearm owners don't go around being flashy with their guns. You won't ever know there is one in my pocket unless you are threatening me or someone near me with mortal harm(like holding a deadly weapon in your hand). There is a stereotype that gun owners are bloodthirsty killers who want to kill. That couldn't be farthest from the truth. I hope to God I never ever have to use it. But I am totally prepared to defend myself and my family if the need arises. I refuse to be just another victim. Sorry/not sorry.


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## Sarachaga (Jan 9, 2017)

@Okami_No_Heishi : Thanks for your reply. As I said, I totally understand the need for a firearm, especially if you need it to defend your loved ones. I don't think you should feel sorry about owning one.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 9, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> @Okami_No_Heishi : Thanks for your reply. As I said, I totally understand the need for a firearm, especially if you need it to defend your loved ones. I don't think you should feel sorry about owning one.


I ain't sorry at all brother.


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## Jarren (Jan 9, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> Actually I was wondering about something. I've never been to a country where owning a firearm was legal for purposes other than hunting/collecting. First question, which is maybe a bit stupid: how do people talk/interact with firearms in the US? Is it like a casual interaction, or do people avoid the topic/avoid interacting with firearms?
> Also, I understand the need to have a gun to defend yourself(especially if everyone has guns), but besides that, are there lot's of people who're just into collecting?
> Lastly, besides for collection purposes, can people buy things like sniper rifles or automatic rifles?
> Again, sorry if my questions seem dull. That's really something I don't know/understand.


Automatic firearms are heavily restricted (basically to the point of being unattainable in some places). Hell, some states are even trying to restrict semi auto rifles. Other than that and some odd restrictions imposing minimum barrel length, you can get your hands on most things.
As for interaction with gun owners, most of the time you'd never know someone was carrying if they've got their gun concealed (as many do). That said, not many people as you think carry a weapon in the U.S. and most gun owners are level headed enough that you wouldn't need to treat them differently from other folks. That said, "an armed society is a polite society." Or so the saying goes.


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## Sarachaga (Jan 9, 2017)

@Jarren: Thanks for the insight! I actually thought gun possession was very widespread in the US. 
It's a weird topic tho, because I know a lot of people who are passionately against guns(I'm myself completely neutral on the subject)


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## LycanTheory (Jan 9, 2017)

When the ruling elite regime of Maryland passed a bill in 2013, banning all military style semi-auto rifles and requiring anyone that wanted to purchase a handgun to first register like a criminal sex-offender, I packed my bags and left my home of 31 years after a grueling battle with the state, in which I was joined by over 4,000 others.

My right to defend myself and those I love is paramount above all else. It's a basic, natural right that should not be trifled with or obstructed in any way. I'm not a criminal, I'm not some gang member that's been in and out of the system all my life and I refuse to be treated as such.

Being able to defend oneself and one's loved ones is as important as being able to provide for them. It's just as essential and valid as any other human right on this planet and should not be extended to the government and political elite while being stripped from everyone else.

I'm not a second class citizen and I refuse to be treated as such by any one.

There are four boxes we can use to preserve liberty. The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box... well, I was down to my last box so I decided to flee instead, something I think any responsible gun owner would do.

There may come a time, however, when there is nowhere else to run and that one last box may be the only last resort. I hope that day never comes but if it does, I am ready.

The thing is, it's not just my rights I'm so passionate and adamant about defending. The same rifht that applies to me applies to everyone, should they elect to exercise it or not. Regardless, that right must be defended, along with all the others.

The second amendment is not about owning guns, it's about preserving freedom. It's about preserving basic, essential rights and liberties for everyone. It's the last line in the sand that keeps us from total enslavement from the powers that be.

It's not s liberal or a conservative issue, it's a basic human right. To be free, to be safe, to be able to defend oneself and one's family against any threat that might present itself.

Sorry for the rant...

I'm an avid target shooter and I used to hunt when there was a need to do so.

Among my arsenal is a Century C39v2, a Molot VEPR in 7.62x54r, a Swiss K-31, Mossy 500 12gage, Winchester SX-3 12gage, S&W .38, Taurus Raging Bull .454 and a Taurus 809. I honestly don't get all the Taurus hate. They may have made some bad ones but mine have run flawlessly.

Saving up for a Colt Python.


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## Sagt (Jan 9, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> @Jarren: Thanks for the insight! I actually thought gun possession was very widespread in the US.
> It's a weird topic tho, because I know a lot of people who are passionately against guns(I'm myself completely neutral on the subject)


It is very widespread, a bit over a third of Americans have guns (gun possession is at a record low right now). I think he meant that not so many Americans actually leave the house with their guns.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 9, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> @Jarren: Thanks for the insight! I actually thought gun possession was very widespread in the US.
> It's a weird topic tho, because I know a lot of people who are passionately against guns(I'm myself completely neutral on the subject)


Firearms ownership also seems to go by area or region. Here in Kommiefornia, governor Moonbeam probably caused a huge run on firearms with his various bills he did or didn't pass. As an aside, former California district 8 Senator Leland Yee was always a proponent of gun control/confiscation. He was convicted of running illegal firearms, amongst other things. King Barack the First helped that run on guns, too. What a doof.

Some areas have low ownership ratios and others have high ownership ratios. It would seem the number of people that are passionately against ownership correlates with the number of firearms owners in a given area.

It surprises me that some people are such pacifists that they don't even have a baseball bat or cane behind the front door.

What people need to get through their skulls is the fact that the Police are not here to protect you. They are Law Enforcement Officers (LEO) and they do just that; enforce the law. They are not sitting down the street, waiting for you to call them. At night, if things are busy, they might be across town and let me tell you, there is nothing more nerve wracking than racing across town, hoping everyone see your lights and hears your siren.

That's one of the reasons I retired.


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## Sagt (Jan 9, 2017)

-AlphaLupi said:


> Yes! The 2nd amendment FTW! Hoping to add a Mosin Nagant to my collection soon, those bad boys are fun as hell to shoot!
> 
> Have to say, not surprised to see that there are plenty of anti-gun arguments here.
> 
> ...


How Japan has almost eradicated gun crime
"Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. In 2014 there were just six gun deaths, compared to 33,599 in the US. What is the secret?"

I understand that gun enthusiasts like having guns for sporting, worship as well as for machismo (to each his own I suppose) but the myth that having a gun protects lives is false.

If a robber, who has a gun, breaks into your house and then sees you reaching for your own, he will shoot first and you will be dead. If you are the one to get your gun out first (unlikely), he's the one dead. Either way, someone dies and it further demonstrates that guns are merely catalysts for death.

The statistics are interesting as well:

68% of homicides involved the use of guns in 2014
11,208 homicides using guns, 21,175 suicides using guns, 505 deaths from accidental use, 73,505 non-fatal firearm injuries and 281 undetermined intent killings in 2013
Approximately 1.2 million violent crimes defined as murder, forcible rape, robbery or aggravated assault in 2014
Private citizens justifiably killed 277 people in 2014
The murder rate in USA is 3.9 per 100,000 people in 2013 while as in comparable countries that have stricter gun control laws, such as the UK, Germany, Australia, Japan, Canada and France, it ranges between 0.3 to 1.5 per 100,000 people
So, in other words:

Guns are almost never used in self-defence in the USA
The USA has a far higher murder rate than the developed nation standard
Of 1.2 million instances that guns could have supposedly been used for self-defence, it was only recorded to be used 277 times
Guns are the most popular weapon of choice for homicide
All this being said, the stats do ignore the possibility that people used the gun to scare away foes without using it, however, there's no way to find a statistic for that. It's also extremely unlikely that it's number would justify the amount of crime that the poor gun laws in the USA enable. Also, with that last bullet point, it does not account for only 1/3rd of Americans owning guns, so realistically, they cannot be used in all situations. That aside, it is still approximately 400,000 instances they could be used compared to the 277 times they were recorded to be used.


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 9, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> First question, which is maybe a bit stupid: how do people talk/interact with firearms in the US? Is it like a casual interaction, or do people avoid the topic/avoid interacting with firearms?



This is something that is largely situational. In general, it's not seen as a taboo subject, and you aren't likely to get a funny look from someone if you mention that you own a gun in casual conversation (unless you live in California or New York City). Remember, we are a nation of about 315 million people (last time I checked) and of that number, there are an estimated 80-100 million of us who own at least one firearm of some kind. There are also about 300 million plus firearms in private circulation here, and God knows how many hundreds of billions of rounds of ammo of all types. In most parts of the country, especially in more rural places, if you mention to any random person that you own or like guns, there's a very good chance that they do too. However, it's not well advised to go around announcing to everyone that you own firearms. If you make this known to the wrong person, word might spread, and you could end up with one of their deadbeat drug addict relatives or friends trying to break into your home and steal what you've got so they can sell it to some pawn shop to get money for their next fix. It's usually better to be discreet. On the other hand, I've also had water cooler talks with coworkers about firearms and hunting, and also with classmates and even strangers in bars on at least two occasions, but only because they started talking about it first. It all depends on the setting and circumstances, like anything else.



> are there lot's of people who're just into collecting?



There are many people who just collect. And there are many different facets and areas of collecting as well, dictated by a person's individual tastes. There are also many people who collect and shoot competitively or hunt. It all depends on what they like.



> (especially if everyone has guns)



That mindset is really pretty irrational. My home state (Wyoming) has the highest per capita rate of gun ownership in the union, with at least half the households here having at least one gun. We do have some social problems, but we still have the lowest crime rate of all the fifty states, and an even lower murder rate. There are other factors too, but the idea that more guns equals more violence is fallacious. It's not about the guns, it's about the CHARACTER of the people who possess them, and the culture of the society that they come from. In general,  Wyomingites are decent, responsible, civic-minded people with genuine concern for their fellow man. Considering all this, it doesn't bother me that so many of my neighbors are well armed. I actually see it as a sort of collective community defense capability and deterrent to crime. Now, if I lived in Detroit or Chicago for example, it would be a different story. Most of the guns in those cities belong to violent and lawless thugs with no regard for human life, and their guns are usually obtained illegally anyway. Crime is rampant, and in that environment I would only want to be armed that much more, realizing the dire, omnipresent threat to my life. Not because of the guns, but because of the sorts people carrying them.



> Lastly, besides for collection purposes, can people buy things like sniper rifles or automatic rifles?



"Sniper rifle" is a pretty generic and loosely defined term, which has more to do with a rifle's tactical use on the battlefield than the function/design of the weapon itself. There are some rifles that are designed and equipped specifically for sniping, but virtually any rifle could be used in that role within its technical limitations. A standard issue infantry rifle could be used for sniping, like Soviet sniper Vasiliy Zaitsev did during WWII. Just about any common hunting rifle you'd see in the hands of a deer hunter is basically the same thing as what many military snipers use. The US Army's M24 and the Marine Corp's M40 sniper rifles were both derived from the Remington Model 700, which is a civilian hunting rifle. They are basically all the same in terms of design and function.

If by "automatic rifles" you mean "machine guns", then the answer is yes. You can own a machine gun legally under federal law and in most states, but the federal laws regarding ownership of machine guns are very restrictive. Private ownership of machine guns has been regulated since 1934, when the National Firearms Act was signed into law. This law was basically a reaction by Congress to the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre in Chicago in 1929. It requires automatic weapons to be registered (not that any criminals ever bothered to do so, of course). There are also other federal laws which affect the private ownership of automatic weapons, namely the 1968 Gun Control Act and the "Hughes Amendment" to the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act. The Hughes Amendment outlawed the transfer of newly manufactured machine guns to civilians after May 19, 1986. However, any machine gun manufactured and registered prior to that date is still legally transferrable to civilians. There is a lengthy and pretty onerous process involved with legally obtaining a machine gun that I won't go into detail about here, but it involves registration and things like getting fingerprinted and photographed, paying for a $200 tax stamp from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, and having written approval from the chief law enforcement officer of the county you reside in. It can be done, but the main obstacle to owning a machine gun for most people who'd like to have one is cost. Since 1986, the availability of machine guns for sale to civilians has been more and more limited, so this means that the prices of machine guns have risen steadily as a result. Most types of automatic firearms sell nowadays for tens of thousands of dollars. There are people who have them, but they are definitely a minority among gun owners. In addition to the huge expense of buying a machine gun, most people don't want to invite the hassles and headaches of dealing with federal agencies anyway. We already have enough of that as it is, and fully-automatic guns just aren't very practical for anything, to wit, you spend enormous amounts of money burning up large amounts of ammo shooting them, for basically nothing more than entertainment. They're not practical for most realistic uses of a firearm, and imo, that would also include national defense as a member of the unorganized militia (American military doctrine has always emphasized precise, individual rifle marksmanship anyway, and this lies at the core of our shooting traditions. Riflemen have traditionally been the backbone of our national defense).

Now, with all of this being said, there is still a strong (and growing) machine gun sub-culture here. There are shooting ranges in the US where you can rent machine guns to shoot, and there are also machine gun shoots that are hosted throughout the country every year. Most of these guns are owned by businesses that have specific licenses to sell and manufacture them. These events, like all firearm events, are held under controlled and supervised conditions, and safety is always emphasized.




> Again, sorry if my questions seem dull. That's really something I don't know/understand.


Not at all. I hope this explanation wasn't too dry or tl;dr for you.


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## reptile logic (Jan 9, 2017)

Lcs said:


> How Japan has almost eradicated gun crime
> "Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. In 2014 there were just six gun deaths, compared to 33,599 in the US. What is the secret?"
> 
> I understand that gun enthusiasts like having guns for sporting, worship as well as for machismo (to each his own I suppose) but the myth that having a gun protects lives is false.
> ...



I will not contest your statistics or your sources. Just think on this for a moment: If everyone in The States were suddenly without firearms; would there be fewer homicides overall or would the killers simply make use of other weapons?

If everyone in Japan suddenly found themselves to be gun owners; would the homicide rate increase, or would a larger percentage of those homicides involve firearm use?

I don't have the answers to these questions, and there is only one sure way to test the theory.

It is my understanding that in many other countries, firearm ownership is limited to the military, the police and the criminals. People who live in those countries understand this, and are more or less comfortable in that knowledge.

People here in The States have been brought up knowing that firearms exist here in great numbers, and practically anyone may own and use them; law abiding citizens and criminals alike. Though not all who live here are comfortable with this fact, we have existed as a firearm carrying culture for hundreds of years. Firearm ownership among its citizens cannot be changed overnight without creating a very large class of lawbreakers who would hide/hoard weapons as a matter of principle.

(Edit) As an aside. Japan hasn't truly almost eradicated crimes involving firearms. My opinion is that, historically, gun-related crimes have virtually been a non-issue there since firearms have existed.


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## reptile logic (Jan 9, 2017)

Jarren said:


> At first I thought you'd confused the M9130 with the M1903 when you mentioned an American built Mosin. But a quick google search left me pleasantly surprised. I didn't know we'd produced the good 'ol garbage rod here in the US. That's neat!
> 
> Also, what kind of revolver is it? I might end up inheriting my grandfather's old S&W .38 special.



*smiles* I inherited my grandfather's .38 service revolver, a S&W. He was a law enforcement officer for many years. He bought it new in 1953; bought his own so he could have it tuned and customized to his personal tastes. It still has the sweetest trigger pull, both single action and double action, of any Smith revolver that I have fired.


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## Sagt (Jan 9, 2017)

Just a few things:



-AlphaLupi said:


> You know the world doesn't exist in a vacuum right? Crime in general is based on several factors. Two major factors are drugs and poverty, aka the people that need money and are desperate enough to obtain it illegally.
> 
> The unemployment rate in the United States (8.1%) nearly doubles Japans (4.4%)
> 
> ...


Of course unemployment and drugs have a place in violence but does a 3.7% higher unemployment rate result in a homicide rate that is 13 times higher than Japans? Practically speaking, I think not. Also, Japan has a higher percentage of its population under its relative poverty line--16.1% compared to the USA percentage of 14.8% in 2014.



-AlphaLupi said:


> So are you proposing that we take guns away from our police officers and soldiers?
> 
> Surely if guns don't protect lives, they must not need them.
> 
> Oh, and I'm fairly certain that gun worship is a myth. I mean, I only pray to my gun safe 5 times a day.


I misphrased that sentence, I should have said that the use of gun ownership by private citizens does not do much for self-defence. I would not suggest removing guns from police officers and soldiers though like you're implying. What I would like is more regulation, in-depth universal background checks and a heavy restriction on semi automatics as well as possibly handguns.

Japan is sort of the leader on gun control at the moment but even they haven't outlawed guns and they probably never will fully ban them for citizens. If you pass the written, practical and psychological assessments you can have a gun in Japan. While you see this as a hindrance of your liberties, I see this merely as sensible policies. In the UK, where I live, there are about 1.2mil gun owners and I don't have a problem with that because I know they have undergone background checks and that the primary use is for hunting.



-AlphaLupi said:


> The 277 killed doesn't account for every incident that involved legally using a firearm for self defense.


You're right it doesn't account for every time a gun is used to scare someone off, which is why I wrote that down as a criticism in my original post.



reptile logic said:


> I will not contest your statistics or your sources. Just think on this for a moment: If everyone in The States were suddenly without firearms; would there be fewer homicides overall or would the killers simply make use of other weapons?
> 
> If everyone in Japan suddenly found themselves to be gun owners; would the homicide rate increase, or would a larger percentage of those homicides involve firearm use?
> 
> ...


I think a lot of those arguments are fair. I just wanted to point out four things:


The only country I can think of with a total ban on guns for citizens is North Korea. Also, most people who want gun control do not want guns to be fully banned, they just want restrictions.
It's much easier to pull a trigger on a gun than it is to stab someone or use some other weapon.
I agree that the American gun culture is a deterrent to gun restrictions but I think at some point the USA needs to sensibly tackle the issue.
Japan has had heavy restrictions on guns since the 1600s so it's a given that gun-related crimes have been a non-issue in Japan. You do raise a good point though that perhaps there are other factors that affect the homicide rate in Japan, such as maybe the ethnic homogeneity. This aside, I would argue that Japan's culture of not needing guns and heavily restricting them has had the greater effect on its low homicide rate than outside factors.


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## reptile logic (Jan 9, 2017)

to @Lcs I appreciate your thoughtful responses. I'm also glad to learn where you reside. Speaking only for myself, I was raised in one of the most stubbornly independent gun cultures in the USA; Arizona. People there are still seen to carry weapons openly. Admittedly there are not many who do so these days, only partially due to the recent legislation allowing virtually any non-felon to legally carry a concealed weapon. I do not defend the gun culture, but I do understand why it exists here. Again for my part, from an early age I was trained to respect the deadly nature of firearms, tools specifically designed to kill, and was trained in both the safe handling and responsible ownership and use of the weapons. I used to collect them, as some people collect any number of things. Some years ago, I decided to sell off most of my collection. The primary reasons; no longer shooting them on a regular basis and, most importantly, no longer being comfortable with the notion that I could potentially be arming well over a dozen criminals if my collection were stolen. As you see, I am among those here in the middle ground; the least comfortable of any position on any subject. I've enjoyed corresponding with you. Thanks again for your input.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 9, 2017)

A few things, from a former LEO's perspective.

People kill people. A firearm is just a tool, just like a knife, a night stick, a baseball bat, a golf club, etc. is a tool. You get the idea. If a person is going to kill another being, they will look for what is the best tool for them to use.

Of the firearms I personally removed from circulation, only one was purchased by the perp. For the most part, the others were stolen in some manner. From a gun shop, a pawn shop (most common), a black market or stolen from the military piece, a neighbor or a family member.

Japan and South Korea have some of the highest suicide rates, both being in the top 25 countries for suicides. The USA was nowhere in those top 25.

Australia has a booming black market for firearms, since they decided to blanket ban them. The also have a rising crime rate, too. That ban did no good at all for the fine residents of the Land Down Under.

I noticed that gun crime followed poverty, drugs and homelessness. Those are the things that are wrong with our country right now. The Gov't really needs to focus on creating good paying jobs to give those that want a hand up and out of the hole they have found themselves in. It really hurts to see women, battered by their Old Man, the dOOd cuffed up in the back of your cruiser. You look around and you see she doesn't have squat to feed her children while her husband (if you want to call him that) spends his time doing drugs and robbery to support that habit.

He's going to jail because he was holding a baggie of Rock and a 9mm with the serial number scratched off when he made you chase him around the neighborhood on foot. You know she's going to lose her place now because she can't work and at the same time take care of these three little hellions she calls her kids. I would find myself giving her some money for food for the kids or I would come by after shift and bring her a bag of food for the little ones.

Another reason I turned in my badge. The heartbreak was just too much and my wife would hold me sometimes while I cried, once I made it home in one piece and I could let down my guard.

Fuck gun control. Let's actually fix this country. Eradicate Homelessness. There's plenty of empty homes and buildings that could be used for this. Create jobs. Let's give people a reason to be proud again when they go cash their paycheck that will support them and their family. Eradicate this influx of drugs from south of the border. Put the boots to the Cartels. Let's make this country vibrant again.

And it has nothing to do with gun control. Nothing.

Just $0.02 USD worth of thoughts from a retired LEO and former soldier. YMMV.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 9, 2017)

LycanTheory said:


> When the ruling elite regime of Maryland passed a bill in 2013, banning all military style semi-auto rifles and requiring anyone that wanted to purchase a handgun to first register like a criminal sex-offender, I packed my bags and left my home of 31 years after a grueling battle with the state, in which I was joined by over 4,000 others.
> 
> My right to defend myself and those I love is paramount above all else. It's a basic, natural right that should not be trifled with or obstructed in any way. I'm not a criminal, I'm not some gang member that's been in and out of the system all my life and I refuse to be treated as such.
> 
> ...


God Bless You Lycan! I give a toast to you!! I agree with you completely.


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## LycanTheory (Jan 10, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> God Bless You Lycan! I give a toast to you!! I agree with you completely.



Thank you, Okami! ^-^


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 10, 2017)

LycanTheory said:


> Thank you, Okami! ^-^


You're welcome!!!!


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## Timber-Dawg (Jan 11, 2017)

I collect antique shotguns


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## davydonovan (Jan 11, 2017)

Timber-Dawg said:


> I collect antique shotguns


I have an 1982 SPAS 12 it's one of my favorite guns.


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## Timber-Dawg (Jan 11, 2017)

Most interesting is a Browning A5 from the last year they were made in Belgium (1939). Also a Mossberg 385kb,  its a smoothbore, bolt action with rifle sights. I am trying to start making musket ball shells for it


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## Shane_McNair (Jan 11, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> I have an 1982 SPAS 12 it's one of my favorite guns.



I didn't know anybody actually owned one of those. I thought they were one of those guns that's so rare that you practically only see them in museums or something, sort of like the Pancor Jackhammer.


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## davydonovan (Jan 11, 2017)

Shane_McNair said:


> I didn't know anybody actually owned one of those. I thought they were one of those guns that's so rare that you practically only see them in museums or something, sort of like the Pancor Jackhammer.


I would be inclined to agree with you. I had to look actively for 2 years to find one in good enough shape to even buy. I can leave a drop box with pictures of it if you like. I am still looking for a street sweeper shotgun.


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## Shane_McNair (Jan 11, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> I would be inclined to agree with you. I had to look actively for 2 years to find one in good enough shape to even buy. I can leave a drop box with pictures of it if you like. I am still looking for a street sweeper shotgun.



I wouldn't mind taking a look, but I don't have a drop box and I'm too lazy to set up an account. 

Or can you PM them?


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## davydonovan (Jan 11, 2017)

Shane_McNair said:


> I wouldn't mind taking a look, but I don't have a drop box and I'm too lazy to set up an account.
> 
> Or can you PM them?



Dropbox - Guns

Just let me know if you would like any other angles. I also have a video of it in action.


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## Jarren (Jan 12, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> I am still looking for a street sweeper shotgun.


There's a shop near me that has one in their inventory. I'm not sure if it's for sale though, as they also rent guns out at their range. Or it might just be a display piece. Next time I'm there, I'll inquire.


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## Shane_McNair (Jan 12, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> Dropbox - Guns
> 
> Just let me know if you would like any other angles. I also have a video of it in action.



Ooh cool...and you even have an Eotech on it. And yeah, that would be cool to see.

 But what's that curved thing sticking out from the buttstock for?


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## Saylor (Jan 12, 2017)

Full auto BAR. Was my grandfather's in WW2 where he carried it across the Pacific Ocean in places like Guadalcanal, Peleilu, and Okinawa.

I've got a few others as well, but the BAR is my favorite


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## davydonovan (Jan 12, 2017)

Shane_McNair said:


> Ooh cool...and you even have an Eotech on it. And yeah, that would be cool to see.
> 
> But what's that curved thing sticking out from the buttstock for?



I was just testing the Eotech out since I got my hands on an original scope mount. 

Aaaahh the hook, I the eyes of Franchi it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. "The Hook" was used to shot the gun with one arm, like around corners for cover fire or on tactical reppel. It has many other functions. I've never played a video game that portrayed the shotgun well. It's not the end all beat all shotgun but a very odd/cool step in combat shotgun evolution. It's also more fun a ton of fun.


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## davydonovan (Jan 12, 2017)

Saylor said:


> Full auto BAR. Was my grandfather's in WW2 where he carried it across the Pacific Ocean in places like Guadalcanal, Peleilu, and Okinawa.
> 
> I've got a few others as well, but the BAR is my favorite


 That's tits dude I've got to see it "please". I was going to build one and make in semi but for now I'm still lurking.


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## Shane_McNair (Jan 12, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> I was just testing the Eotech out since I got my hands on an original scope mount.
> 
> Aaaahh the hook, I the eyes of Franchi it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. "The Hook" was used to shot the gun with one arm, like around corners for cover fire or on tactical reppel. It has many other functions. I've never played a video game that portrayed the shotgun well. It's not the end all beat all shotgun but a very odd/cool step in combat shotgun evolution. It's also more fun a ton of fun.



Oh, I see. That's cool! Thanks for sharing.


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## davydonovan (Jan 12, 2017)

Shane_McNair said:


> Oh, I see. That's cool! Thanks for sharing.


I really like my guns just ask if you have questions about a gun I own and I will give you a complete breakdown. Ciao!


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## Royn (Jan 12, 2017)

Thinks its not really suprising that more than a few Furries are strapped.  Have firearms too, but they dont ever last real long because the accelerant burns off quick.  Sure looks cool dancing around waving firearms about wildly in the dark though!


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## Jarren (Jan 12, 2017)

Royn said:


> Thinks its not really suprising that more than a few Furries are strapped.  Have firearms too, but they dont ever last real long because the accelerant burns off quick.  Sure looks cool dancing around waving firearms about wildly in the dark though!


Lol, took me a second to get it.


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## Saylor (Jan 12, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> That's tits dude I've got to see it "please". I was going to build one and make in semi but for now I'm still lurking.



Haha! Sorry, I'm kinda not so keen on posting pictures of my guns on the internet. It's nothing against you personally. But, I'll say my second favorite firearm behind the BAR is definitely my Colt M1911. I bought it stainless steel chrome with black pistol grips, then I put a chrome muzzle break on it, replaced the black grips with pearl grips, and worked around with the guts of it a little bit and it looks like a true showpiece. It is almost as accurate as my .22 that I used to shoot flies off of cow patties on my great uncle's ranch and it cycles so well that you can even dunk it in water, let it drain, and then hold it upside-down and you can pull the trigger until the magazine is empty.


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## Alex K (Jan 22, 2017)

My friend is a hunter and he lets me play with his guns on occasion when we go fish hunting


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## davydonovan (Jan 22, 2017)

Has anyone on here shot / own an FN45 technical? How does it stack up against a high end 1911?


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jan 23, 2017)

LupusFamilia said:


> am no pro, but i thing the 45 would win if maybe shortly, but i think it'll be very clear.



Please retype that.  No idea what you were trying to say, besides 'not pro gun.'

Not an insult.  I'm just saying that it was not understandable.


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## Jarren (Jan 23, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> Has anyone on here shot / own an FN45 technical? How does it stack up against a high end 1911?


With the 1911 being an older design, I'd imagine the FN 45 would handle better. That said, the 1911 is a tried and true weapon that's seen combat in every theatre of war and performed admirably. Still, the modern gun likely has the advantage in the performance department, despite the 1911s pedigree.


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## davydonovan (Jan 23, 2017)

My thoughts on that is a 1911 today is not the same as an original from 80 years ago. I do like the fact the FA45 has double stacked magazines. That probably helps with overall balance. I have a long slide 1911 and it's not a well balanced firearm but it's just for show and tell anyways. My Wilson C. on the other hand is a Cadillac. The balance is great and do to internal modifications the recoil is low. I guess the only real way to know is to "bite the bullet" and buy one. 

Here we go again


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 23, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> My thoughts on that is a 1911 today is not the same as an original from 80 years ago. I do like the fact the FA45 has double stacked magazines. That probably helps with overall balance. I have a long slide 1911 and it's not a well balanced firearm but it's just for show and tell anyways. My Wilson C. on the other hand is a Cadillac. The balance is great and do to internal modifications the recoil is low. I guess the only real way to know is to "bite the bullet" and buy one.
> 
> Here we go again


My Tanfoglio Witness is a nice well balanced sidearm. It's a .45. Holds 10+1. First time I fired it I shot twice, the trigger pull was so smooth. Both rounds hit the target. I love it!


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## davydonovan (Jan 23, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> My Tanfoglio Witness is a nice well balanced sidearm. It's a .45. Holds 10+1. First time I fired it I shot twice, the trigger pull was so smooth. Both rounds hit the target. I love it!


That looks like a smooth operator sir very nice sidearm. 
Have you ever participated in a three gun competition?


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 23, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> That looks like a smooth operator sir very nice sidearm.
> Have you ever participated in a three gun competition?


I wish!!! I don't own any high powered rifles. Yet.


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## davydonovan (Jan 23, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> I wish!!! I don't own any high powered rifles. Yet.


 Do you have one in mind?


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Jan 23, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> Do you have one in mind?


An AR style, but not one made by Smith And Wesson. Haven't really looked into it. But probably within the next year.


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## davydonovan (Jan 23, 2017)

Very nice, (thumbs up)


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## Jarren (Jan 23, 2017)

Well, I forgot to post this back when I finished it, so I'll throw it up now. Behold my latest project.


Spoiler: Large image ahead!



A little while ago, I posted a picture in Open Chat about my purchase of H&K G3 clone. Well, after a lot of searching, haggling, and adjusting I've finally got the rifle set up in an (almost) authentic historical configuration (I had to get it with the top rail because claw mounts suck and I like optics).





I put entirely too much effort into finding that wood furniture and that black grip. The leather sling was a bit easier to find and it fits wonderfully. All the parts are either military surplus straight from Germany or remade on genuine H&K machinery here in the US. I even picked up one of the old parkerized steel mags for added effect.

I'm still breaking her in, and I've had  a few malfunctions because of it, but it's nothing out of the ordinary for this rifle. Once I break the 500 round mark I should have it entirely broken in and running well. That said, she HATES Winchester ammo (>80% rate of failure with it compared to ~1% rate of failure with other .308/7.62 NATO) and I will never make that mistake again. Dirtiest gun I won though


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## davydonovan (Jan 23, 2017)

My Thompson hates Winchester ammo aswel. I think there bullet seating is poorly done. I've never had ejection problems always feed problems, how about yourself?


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## bhutrflai (Jan 23, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> An AR style, but not one made by Smith And Wesson. Haven't really looked into it. But probably within the next year.


I'm gonna have to make you choose then...

AR or FWA??


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## Jarren (Jan 23, 2017)

davydonovan said:


> My Thompson hates Winchester ammo as well. I think there bullet seating is poorly done. I've never had ejection problems always feed problems, how about yourself?


Ejection, mostly. Either the casing would catch on the edge of the port and the bolt would close on it, or the extractor would slip off the cartridge rim and it wouldn't eject properly. I had one malfunction where it fed (or at least tried to) the spent casing AND a new round into the chamber. That was a fun malfunction to clear :\ No problems with Tula or ZQI though...


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2017)

Alex K said:


> My friend is a hunter and he lets me play with his guns on occasion when we go fish hunting



Fish hunting? WTF?


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## Jarren (Jan 23, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Fish hunting? WTF?


Apparently it's a thing...





I prefer this one


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## Alex K (Jan 23, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Fish hunting? WTF?



Yeah we just shoot the water and hope we hit those fish. It's how we survived back in my day when they had no wood or string or bait.

Sometimes we gotta even shoot them ducks so that they don't come flyin in and swiping our fish right out of the lake.


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 24, 2017)

Alex K said:


> Yeah we just shoot the water and hope we hit those fish. It's how we survived back in my day when they had no wood or string or bait.
> 
> Sometimes we gotta even shoot them ducks so that they don't come flyin in and swiping our fish right out of the lake.



Did you ever go the Crocodile Dundee route and use dynamite?


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## JumboWumbo (Jan 24, 2017)

I want to get one, but I live in California :/

And as tough as the laws are now, Prop 63 is only going to make them tougher.

Hooray.


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## Alex K (Jan 24, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Did you ever go the Crocodile Dundee route and use dynamite?



No but one time we did use TNT to explode the tree to make it fall into the water to splash out all the fish


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## LycanTheory (Jan 24, 2017)

bhutrflai said:


> I'm gonna have to make you choose then...
> 
> AR or FWA??



Actually, with ARs having dropped considerably in price, perhaps both?

My opinion remains that the AR platform is... Haha... Well, there's a reason I prefer AK pattern rifles but what makes the AR nice is that you can start from a stripped lower receiver and build something decent with basic hand tools and following simple instruction.

A stripped lower, last time I checked, was around 100-200 bucks. From there, one can build it up with good components over time and save a little money.

Still, considering the value of an out-of-the-box rifle, it's hard for any AR platform to compete with a Molot VEPR.

Just my two cents.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 24, 2017)

LycanTheory said:


> Actually, with ARs having dropped considerably in price, perhaps both?
> 
> My opinion remains that the AR platform is... Haha... Well, there's a reason I prefer AK pattern rifles but what makes the AR nice is that you can start from a stripped lower receiver and build something decent with basic hand tools and following simple instruction.
> 
> ...


The problem being that right now you can't get anything new from Russia due to the current embargo.

I really would like to get another Vepr Hunter only in .308 this time instead of 7.62X54R. I'm still keeping an eye out for a Saiga IZ-132 or 133 in 7.62X39.

I've never really been into that whole AK47 pistol grip/side folder/lettin' her rip type shooting. To that end, I have an Uzi pistol (closed bolt!) with a 2" barrel. It is so innacurate, I can see it's just good for suppression fire. I'm still hanging onto it as an investment. Still prefer my Tigr and Vepr long range rifles.


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## Arwing Ace (Feb 1, 2017)

At the risk of someone accusing me of being a heretic, I'm going to profess my sincere belief that the Mosin Nagant family of rifles is highly overrated.

Yes, it was used effectively against the Germans, and yes, it has an awesome history. But on a practical, functional level, it's a really lackluster piece, and worthy of some criticism.

The 91/30 is far too long and heavy.
It's about as ergonomic as a 2x4.
Although they are rugged, they are far too sloppily put together for even halfway acceptable accuracy *as issued* (The barrels and actions of many actually move back and forth in the stocks).
The M44s and M38s are cool flame throwers at the range, but in a firefight, that muzzle flash will give away your position to the enemy like nothing else.
The straight bolt handles on the non-sniper versions are somewhat awkward and cumbersome to manipulate.
They are too slow to reload, and even the stripper clips are next to worthless imo.
Rimlock _is,_ in fact, an issue with the Mosin.
"Sticky bolt syndrome" takes all the fun out of shooting it. Wrestling with the piece and slapping the bolt handle gets old quick. (Yes, I know this can be remedied, albeit not in every case).
Cosmoline is a pain in the ass to get rid of.
Yes, I have owned and shot Mosins, so I speak from personal experience. The only thing they really have going for them (or used to anyway) is cost, and the cheap price of 7.62x54R. On the upside, the cartridge packs a real punch, and the rifle itself makes a hell of a good club, if necessary. The bayonet is also handy for roasting weenies or marshmallows over an open fire on camping trips. The main reason to own a Mosin, imo, is out of appreciation for its long and storied history, or as an expendable loaner rifle for SHTF. It works, but it is by no means preferable to anything else (except nothing).

The Finnish Mosins, on the other hand, are a much better rifle, and imo, are in a different league than their Red Army and Chicom counterparts.


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## Jarren (Feb 1, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> The 91/30 is far too long and heavy.
> 
> It's about as ergonomic as a 2x4.
> 
> ...



I disagree (granted, I'm tall/long of arm and can easily compensate for the rifle's layout).
Agreed. Sometimes it even requires a 2x4 for proper function 
Never had accuracy problems with the ones I've handled (granted, all wonderfully preserved hex receiver models that were well taken care of).
Agreed, not to mention the extra kick they bestow upon your shoulder and the much louder bang they make.
To each their own. I like it.
Some strippers clips have worked for me, but I agree with you, the majority are garbage. I don't find it much slower to reload than other bolt actions though.
Yes, that's why you load it carefully (read: slowly. Thus mostly invalidating my previous point :/ )
Yup. Again though, haven't had that issue TOO often with the ones I've handled. Guess I've been lucky.
Also, a few benefits to using a Mosin.

With the bayonet affixed, you can skewer an enemy three counties away.
If you break your leg, it's long enough to be used as a crutch. Or an over-sized splint. Or get two and make a stretcher!
It will work. It will ALWAYS work. (Provided you can cycle the bolt)
No greedy fatcat, corporate goon is getting rich off your purchase. You've got the hard-working proletariat to thank for your fine* piece of Russian engineering.
If (for whatever unholy reason) you need more cosmoline, you're in luck! There's bound to still be some on your rifle SOMEWHERE.
Your rifle was on the winning side.

:V
Also: You filthy heretic.


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## LycanTheory (Feb 1, 2017)

Ahahaha. Mosins have a place and I think it's a well deserved one, they aren't garbage but they are an acquired taste in comparison to most bolt action rifles. I kinda miss mine although I'm in love with the Swiss K31 that took it's place in my safe.


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## Arwing Ace (Feb 1, 2017)

LycanTheory said:


> Ahahaha. Mosins have a place and I think it's a well deserved one, they aren't garbage but they are an acquired taste in comparison to most bolt action rifles. I kinda miss mine although I'm in love with the Swiss K31 that took it's place in my safe.



The K31 and the Mosin are two worlds apart. Honestly, I don't really dislike the Mosin itself, I just dislike shooting it. If mine didn't have a sticky bolt and the barrel/action didn't move around in the stock, I think I would enjoy it a whole lot more. I could probably do a crude, simple bedding job to improve the accuracy, and _maybe _eliminate the bolt stick, but I just don't know if it's worth the effort.


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## LycanTheory (Feb 1, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> The K31 and the Mosin are two worlds apart. Honestly, I don't really dislike the Mosin itself, I just dislike shooting it. If mine didn't have a sticky bolt and the barrel/action didn't move around in the stock, I think I would enjoy it a whole lot more. I could probably do a crude, simple bedding job to improve the accuracy, and _maybe _eliminate the bolt stick, but I just don't know if it's worth the effort.



That's the trouble I kept having, wondering if it was really worth it. I considered re-barreling mine with a custom stock from Richards Microfit and ehhhh... For less money I picked up the K31.

I suppose if someone really had a thing for Mosins or a ton of 54r laying around, the improvements would be worth it.

All in all, they aren't bad guns and some of em have been through literal hell and still shoot...

Damn... I'm gonna buy another one now. xD


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## Arwing Ace (Feb 1, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Never had accuracy problems with the ones I've handled (granted, all wonderfully preserved hex receiver models that were well taken care of).



Funny you should mention that. The one I've got now just happens to be a 1925 dated hex. It's in pretty good overall shape, and also has a bright, shiny bore with really sharp rifling. Strange that a 92 year-old military rifle seems to have been shot so little.



Jarren said:


> No greedy fatcat, corporate goon is getting rich off your purchase. You've got the hard-working proletariat to thank for your fine* piece of Russian engineering.



True. I'm certainly no communist, but I definitely have no love for the monolithic corporate system either.


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## DennyFrontier (Feb 2, 2017)

Ive got a Remington 700, Dan Wesson .357, Beretta M9 and up until recently I had a Glock 17 that I used after I got my concealed carry permit but I ended up selling it. Im instead looking at a Springfield XDS. Its a 45 opposed to the 9 that was the Glock


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## Sagt (Feb 3, 2017)

US Gun Laws: House votes to loosen background checks rules

"The US House of Representatives has voted to scrap regulations that require background checks for people purchasing guns with mental health issues."

Thoughts?


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## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 3, 2017)

Lcs said:


> US Gun Laws: House votes to loosen background checks rules
> 
> "The US House of Representatives has voted to scrap regulations that require background checks for people purchasing guns with mental health issues."
> 
> Thoughts?


Separate thread?


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## LycanTheory (Feb 3, 2017)

Lcs said:


> US Gun Laws: House votes to loosen background checks rules
> 
> "The US House of Representatives has voted to scrap regulations that require background checks for people purchasing guns with mental health issues."
> 
> Thoughts?



I'll take a look and follow up when I have a chance but as a pro-2a activist who escaped an extremist totalitarian state (Maryland) because of a rediculas anti-2a law they passed in 2013, I can tell you that some mental health background regulation is outright preposterous and only exists as a method of control to deter/prevent people who are very much healthy, stable individuals from buying or possessing firearms.

One of the huge issues we had in Maryland, with the 2013 law was something known as "the Simmons amendment", which allowed the state police the ability to dig through juvenile mental health records, searching for a reason to deny someone.

While I'm not totally opposed to the concept, the way the amendment was written was so vague that if someone's dad passed away when they were 12, for example, and they started going to therapy because of failing school grades they could essentially be denied a constitutional right.

Most mental health background check regulation, on any state level, is little more than a nusiance of added paperwork, honestly. If someone's unstable enough to pick up a weapon and harm someone else because they are deranged or disgruntled, I doubt they'd limit themselves to choice of what the weapon was. For that matter, let's require a background check for all garden tools and kitchen utensils as well..

Criminal background checks are necessary, I agree, although even they tread into a grey area of what should prohibit one from possession.

Mental health background check laws, if they were written properly and reasonably, would be a useful tool perhaps but more often than not, they serve little purpose other than headache due to being authored by idiot politicians without enough consult from professionals in mental health.


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## Sagt (Feb 3, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Separate thread?


It's related, so it might as well go into this one.


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## Jarren (Feb 3, 2017)

Lcs said:


> It's related, so it might as well go into this one.


Agreed.


Lcs said:


> US Gun Laws: House votes to loosen background checks rules
> 
> "The US House of Representatives has voted to scrap regulations that require background checks for people purchasing guns with mental health issues."
> 
> Thoughts?


Slippery slope argument. Once we start denying the right to one group of people, a precident is set for denying it to others. While I agree that there are some mental disorders that ought to prevent you from owning a firearm I'm not sure how one could effectively, efficiently, or constitutionally implement it. If you've been involuntarily committed for violent or delusional behavior or attempts to harm yourself or others I'd argue you ought to be barred until a mental health professional clears you. But that's cumbersome and open to abuse. I'm honestly not sure where I fall on the issue.


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## Sagt (Feb 3, 2017)

LycanTheory said:


> I'll take a look and follow up when I have a chance but as a pro-2a activist who escaped an extremist totalitarian state (Maryland) because of a rediculas anti-2a law they passed in 2013, I can tell you that some mental health background regulation is outright preposterous and only exists as a method of control to deter/prevent people who are very much healthy, stable individuals from buying or possessing firearms.
> 
> One of the huge issues we had in Maryland, with the 2013 law was something known as "the Simmons amendment", which allowed the state police the ability to dig through juvenile mental health records, searching for a reason to deny someone.
> 
> ...





Jarren said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Slippery slope argument. Once we start denying the right to one group of people, a precident is set for denying it to others. While I agree that there are some mental disorders that ought to prevent you from owning a firearm I'm not sure how one could effectively, efficiently, or constitutionally implement it. If you've been involuntarily committed for violent or delusional behavior or attempts to harm yourself or others I'd argue you ought to be barred until a mental health professional clears you. But that's cumbersome and open to abuse. I'm honestly not sure where I fall on the issue.


The background checks don't automatically mean that a person is denied gun ownership; there must be some sort of disqualifying information on the filled in background check form for that to happen. I've read that the bar for denying someone for mental health issues, based on the background checks, is very high. Supposedly out of 225 million background checks since 1998, only 21,000 people have been denied based on mental health issues.

In my opinion, if someone is mentally unfit to have a gun, it's morally wrong to allow them to have one.


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## Jarren (Feb 3, 2017)

Lcs said:


> The background checks don't automatically mean that a person is denied gun ownership; there must be some sort of disqualifying information on the filled in background check form for that to happen. I've read that the bar for denying someone for mental health issues, based on the background checks, is very high. Supposedly out of 225 million background checks since 1998, only 21,000 people have been denied based on mental health issues.
> 
> In my opinion, if someone is mentally unfit to have a gun, it's morally wrong to allow them to have one.


Just finished looking further into the issue. I actually support the decision to repeal this bit of legislature. Primarily because it did nothing to stop those with dangerous or violent mental disorders (that wasn't already done) from procuring guns. It basically barred those who cannot handle their own disability paperwork *I've grossly oversimplified the issue, but that's the gist) from buying a gun. People falling into that category are not necessarily all incompetent and untrustworthy with a firearm, and those that ARE (generally) will be under the watch of a caregiver/guardian who would likely have to make the decision/purchase for them, so that in and of itself is likely enough of a barrier. I've worked with and been friends with people who would be precluded under that law and some, I feel, would be more than trustworthy with a weapon. Not that any of them were really interested in them to my knowledge. The only two benefits I feel that this law provided would be preventing a caregiver who could not themselves purchase a weapon using their charge to execute a straw purchase or to stop someone of already limited income from wasting their money on something like a $5k anti-material rifle. All in all, this particular law didn't really do anything and was just a generally useless waste of paper and it's good for it to be gone. Just my two cents. and my understanding of the law, I might have missed something.
Now, something I question quite a bit is my state doing away with the requirement of concealed carry permits to, well, carry concealed. Especially with national reciprocity on the table. Will we now be prevented from carrying (legally) elsewhere because we DON'T have permits despite ALL permits being recognized? What about the process of notifying an L.E.O. that you are armed during a traffic stop? Will that become more tense without the legitimizing paperwork or lead to some erroneous arrests? Will this encourage more people to carry without getting training (already not required in my state, but still...) and lead to more accidents? Food for thought in my corner of the country lately.


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## Jarren (Feb 15, 2017)

So, thoughts from Americans on the recent petition to repeal the NFA and how many signatures it's picked up? There's been a lot of talk in the firearm community about possible leaps forward for gun rights under this administration. You guys think it has a chance of getting repealed? What about the Hughes amendment? What former NFA items might you snag on the cheap after a rollback or repeal? What ones do you already have? Would you rather see these regulations strengthened instead? Let's chat about it.


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## Sagt (Feb 15, 2017)

Jarren said:


> So, thoughts from Americans on the recent petition to repeal the NFA and how many signatures it's picked up? There's been a lot of talk in the firearm community about possible leaps forward for gun rights under this administration. You guys think it has a chance of getting repealed? What about the Hughes amendment? What former NFA items might you snag on the cheap after a rollback or repeal? What ones do you already have? Would you rather see these regulations strengthened instead? Let's chat about it.


As you can imagine based off my previous posts, I'm not really a big fan of relaxations on gun control laws. Instead, I'm in favour of stricter regulations and such. 

Disregarding that though, there will almost certainly be some loosening of regulations. With the Republicans having leadership over two branches of government (and soon the judicial branch as well), it's very probable since it's popular with many Republican voters.

Sort of away from what you were talking about, but I'm a bit curious about the current president. He seems to have changed his views on guns pretty drastically since becoming a presidential candidate:

In 2000: Trump said he supported an assault weapon ban and longer waiting periods for gun purchases

In 2012: Trump praised Obama's calls for stricter gun control after a school shooting.

During the election: Trump said he doesn't support gun control, doesn't support a ban on assault weapons, doesn't support background check and he does want an expansion of concealed-carry permits.
So, I'm not too convinced that he's genuinely a big fan of guns despite what he said during the election. He's also definitely different from the more traditional and conservative type Republicans. So, he may be a bit quiet on the issue of guns now that he's won the election? I suppose we will just have to wait and see to know. Either way, it doesn't really matter since the president isn't the one who makes the laws.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> As you can imagine, I'm not really a big fan of relaxations on gun control laws. Instead, I'm in favour of stricter regulations and such.
> 
> Disregarding that though, there will almost certainly be some loosening of regulations. With the Republicans having leadership over two branches of government (and soon the judicial branch as well), it's very probable since it's popular with many Republican voters.
> 
> ...


Good Old Trumplestiltskin is similar to a pancake in the way he's flopped on issues over the years. Hell, there's a video floating around of quotes from the campaign trail where he argues against himself. It's quite amusing.  He was a vocal democrat for the longest time, despite his incredibly republican economic views, and really only "flipped sides" entirely to the republican ticket around the time Obama took office. But, I digress.

Honestly, I'd be most excited to see suppressors removed from the NFA registry. I've had a few noise complaints called in on myself and friends when shooting (legally and safely on our own property) by concerned/startled/annoyed citizens, and would love to avoid that again in the future. There are a fair amount of countries where (based on anecdotal evidence I've heard, so take this with a grain of salt) it's almost a faux pas to not have your weapons suppressed just for the sake of the people living near firing ranges, or others at the range. Also, they tend to be useful for hunting in that you are less likely to disturb other forest-goers during hunting season. Seeing SBRs allowed again would be nice too, just so all those "pistols" with armhole stocks can actually be shouldered without making it a felony


----------



## Sagt (Feb 15, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Good Old Trumplestiltskin is similar to a pancake in the way he's flopped on issues over the years. Hell, there's a video floating around of quotes from the campaign trail where he argues against himself. It's quite amusing.  He was a vocal democrat for the longest time, despite his incredibly republican economic views, and really only "flipped sides" entirely to the republican ticket around the time Obama took office. But, I digress.
> 
> Honestly, I'd be most excited to see suppressors removed from the NFA registry. I've had a few noise complaints called in on myself and friends when shooting (legally and safely on our own property) by concerned/startled/annoyed citizens, and would love to avoid that again in the future. There are a fair amount of countries where (based on anecdotal evidence I've heard, so take this with a grain of salt) it's almost a faux pas to not have your weapons suppressed just for the sake of the people living near firing ranges, or others at the range. Also, they tend to be useful for hunting in that you are less likely to disturb other forest-goers during hunting season. Seeing SBRs allowed again would be nice too, just so all those "pistols" with armhole stocks can actually be shouldered without making it a felony


Sort of off-topic, but I thought suppressors don't really work. I've been told that they hardly change the amount of noise at all.


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## reptile logic (Feb 15, 2017)

If the suppressor is properly designed and built, and the bullet speed kept to subsonic velocities, then suppressors work remarkably well.

A supersonic bullet will make a loud crack sound due to breaking the sound barrier [Edit: as the bullet moves through the air], and that sound cannot be muffled by a suppressor.


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## Sagt (Feb 15, 2017)

reptile logic said:


> If the suppressor is properly designed and built, and the bullet speed kept to subsonic velocities, then suppressors work remarkably well.
> 
> A supersonic bullet will make a loud crack sound due to breaking the sound barrier, and that sound cannot be muffled by a suppressor.


Interesting.

I don't remember where I heard about it, but I just remembered reading something about them not being particularly useful for silencing guns. (I think it was from a video talking about how silencers in games and movies are often unrealistic) As a result, I had thought that they were primarily used just for making the location of the gunshot less obvious to find. Just out of curiosity, do most non-military used guns fire bullets below a supersonic speed? Also, how quiet do they make guns that fire bullets below supersonic speeds?


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## reptile logic (Feb 15, 2017)

It is my understanding that very few modern weapons, firing standard rounds, send the bullet out at subsonic speeds. The cartridges must be custom made, using less powder than normal, to achieve these slower velocities. Practically the only reason to want to fire a bullet at a subsonic velocity is to enable effective use of a suppressor/silencer.

While in the military, I worked at an arsenal and often volunteered for range duty so I could fire some of the odd and experimental weapons of the period. A weapon system specifically set up to fire quietly is spooky quiet and it's a little hard to describe the sound after all these years.


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## Saylor (Feb 15, 2017)

I'm considering getting myself an M1A model. I'm having a hard time trying to decide whether I should get a Military surplus model or a MP9226.


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## Jarren (Feb 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I don't remember where I heard about it, but I just remembered reading something about them not being particularly useful for silencing guns. (I think it was from a video talking about how silencers in games and movies are often unrealistic) As a result, I had thought that they were primarily used just for making the location of the gunshot less obvious to find. Just out of curiosity, do most non-military used guns fire bullets below a supersonic speed? Also, how quiet do they make guns that fire bullets below supersonic speeds?


Depends on the bullet, frankly. If you're shooting something like .223,  5.56x45, .308, or even some hot load 9mm cartridges, you're dealing with a very fast round that is very difficult to get subsonic (and loses a lot of it's benefits in the process). Something like .22lr, .40, .45acp, or .300blk are much easier to suppress, due to them being generally slower rounds. Generally, the larger the bullet compared to the powder load, the easier a time you'll have suppressing the round. Also, the quality/style of the suppressor makes a difference. Long story short, you'll still hear a bang with a lot of guns, but it'll be more like a loud firecracker than a gunshot. There are some firearms, however, where the loudest sound you'll hear from the weapon is the bolt moving cycling, which will just be clicks, clacks, and the sound of sliding metal. Granted, this doesn't mean it's a good idea to shoot suppressed guns without ear protection, as prolonged exposure to even suppressed gunfire (in many cases) will still cause hearing loss.
Here's a decent sound comparison for a fairly standard 9mm
And here's an example of just how quiet some firearms can get


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## Arwing Ace (Feb 21, 2017)

Jarren said:


> So, thoughts from Americans on the recent petition to repeal the NFA and how many signatures it's picked up?
> There's been a lot of talk in the firearm community about possible leaps forward for gun rights under this administration. You guys think it has a chance of getting repealed? What about the Hughes amendment? What former NFA items might you snag on the cheap after a rollback or repeal? What ones do you already have? Would you rather see these regulations strengthened instead? Let's chat about it.



In the current political climate, and with the more positive overall public attitude toward firearms nowadays, I think that a loosening of restrictions on the use/ownership of suppressors at the state level is the most likely thing to be brought to the table, what with their increasing popularity and the growing perception of their practicality. This might be a stepping stone toward repealing the Hughes Amendment, and ultimately, the NFA down the road. However, I think it's unlikely that the subject of machine guns will be brought up in Congress any time soon. Until Schumer, Feinstein, all the spineless, backstabbing, good for nothing RINOs, and the rest of the disarmament crowd and their enablers are finally gone from Congress, it probably wouldn't go anywhere anyway. But I'm all for repealing both.

If the stated justification for having the NFA is that it "lowers crime" then all we have to do is note that has been in effect for 83 years, and in all of that time it has had absolutely no demonstrable effect on crime whatsoever. It's just another unnecessary "feel good" law like the '94 "Assault Weapons Ban" was. What more needs to be said? When it comes down to it, there is no logical, compelling argument for keeping it if you actually know anything about firearms and their statistical use in crime.

Now, if I, as a law-abiding American, can be trusted with a semi-auto AR/AK/fill in the blank, then why not a select-fire one? There's virtually no difference between them otherwise, and neither of them are commonly used in crimes anyway. Full auto may be impractical, but I wouldn't mind having it, just for the _very occasional_ mag dump at the range for fun.

As far as what "former NFA" items I might buy, I might get a suppressor or two, and that's probably about it. Even with significantly decreased prices after a repeal of the NFA, I would have a hard time justifying spending money on any full auto guns or full auto parts/conversions. Hell, as it is I won't even consider spending money on a bump fire stock. It's just too impractical for me to spend a lot of money on something that's not really good for anything besides burning through ammo at the range. There's no practical benefit to it. With limited exception, I feel that with every round I put down range, I should be improving my marksmanship and defensive shooting skills instead. That's what really counts.


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## Royn (Feb 21, 2017)

Have a "Little Sheriff" .22 single action revolver....  Pop Kakaclick pop.


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## Delta_Waffle (Feb 22, 2017)

I own a little 20 gauge pump action my dad bought for me to hunting with. I was 6 I think. I still have it. The things reliable as hell and pretty freaking accurate as well.


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## Vulpinetaco (Feb 23, 2017)

I'm planning on buying a Mosin-Nagant at some point. Cheap, effective, and were used to kill Nazis. What more could I want?


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## Sarachaga (Feb 23, 2017)

Vulpinetaco said:


> I'm planning on buying a Mosin-Nagant at some point. Cheap, effective, and were used to kill Nazis. What more could I want?


That's a gun with a design that I really like. If you buy it, can you post some photos of it on here, please?


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## Vulpinetaco (Feb 23, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> That's a gun with a design that I really like. If you buy it, can you post some photos of it on here, please?


It probably won't be any time soon, haha. But alright.


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## Jarren (Feb 23, 2017)

Sarachaga said:


> That's a gun with a design that I really like. If you buy it, can you post some photos of it on here, please?


I snagged one not too long ago, I've got pics a few pages back.


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## Vulpinetaco (Feb 23, 2017)

Jarren said:


> I snagged one not too long ago, I've got pics a few pages back.


Oh? What model?


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## Jarren (Feb 23, 2017)

Vulpinetaco said:


> Oh? What model?


Not entirely sure. It's either an original 1891 variant, or one of the dragoon rifles. The length suggests it being an ex-dragoon model, but the rest of it falls in line with normal 1891 to 91/30 upgrade standards.


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## Yakamaru (Feb 23, 2017)

I'd own a gun or two if Norway didn't have such low crime rates.

Oslo is the exception.


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## s_fodder (Feb 24, 2017)

Damn, until I read this thread I thought I owned a sensible number of guns. Turns out, I'm on the "worrying" end of the spectrum.

Handguns:
Beretta 92A1 9mm
Springfield SA-XD .45 ACP 4" barrel
Smith & Wesson Model 15 .38 Special 4" barrel
Smith & Wesson Model 686 .357 Magnum 6" barrel

Long guns:
Ruger 10/22 (Standard, black polymer)
1891 Argentine Mauser 7.65x53mm (Selling this one)
Mod. 98 8mm Mauser circa 1915
Mossberg 500 12 GA w/extended magazine tube
M1 Garand 30-06 circa 1950s
AR-15 5.56 w/ 16" heavy free float barrel, keymod forend, Magpul pistol grip and Fixed Carbine Stock, and an NCSTAR Sniper 3-9x
Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm (Newest baby)

I love all my children. Except for my 1891, I broke it. And I might trade my Mossberg for a semi shotgun.

I don't run across many furries who are as into guns as I am, I've found. We might be a rare breed. Or it's just not something that comes up.


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## modfox (Feb 24, 2017)

308 hunting rifle.
that's it unless you want me to list my bows?


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## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 26, 2017)

s_fodder said:


> Damn, until I read this thread I thought I owned a sensible number of guns. Turns out, I'm on the "worrying" end of the spectrum.
> 
> Handguns:
> Beretta 92A1 9mm
> ...


I find your collection worrying.
1) You only have one Ruger 10/22. I would think you would have at least four or five and none of them stock. They have to be the best modding platform for rimfire that was ever put together. I have one 10/22 that has no Ruger parts at all! All Aftermarket.
2) No Russian rifles. How can you be a proper shooting Comrade without at least one Soviet-style rifle? A Saiga or Vepr will do.
3) You only have one Garand. Not enough!
4) Your AR doesn't have "Mattel" imprinted in the forearm halves and the buttstock. Ar's with a forward assist are for wimps.

Just some casual observations.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 26, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I find your collection worrying.
> 1) You only have one Ruger 10/22. I would think you would have at least four or five and none of them stock. They have to be the best modding platform for rimfire that was ever put together. I have one 10/22 that has no Ruger parts at all! All Aftermarket.
> 2) No Russian rifles. How can you be a proper shooting Comrade without at least one Soviet-style rifle? A Saiga or Vepr will do.
> 3) You only have one Garand. Not enough!
> ...


Collecting takes cash! Believe me, I would have hundreds of firearms, if I had the cash. But as it stands, I am happy with what I do have.


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## s_fodder (Feb 26, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I find your collection worrying.
> 1) You only have one Ruger 10/22. I would think you would have at least four or five and none of them stock. They have to be the best modding platform for rimfire that was ever put together. I have one 10/22 that has no Ruger parts at all! All Aftermarket.
> 2) No Russian rifles. How can you be a proper shooting Comrade without at least one Soviet-style rifle? A Saiga or Vepr will do.
> 3) You only have one Garand. Not enough!
> ...



1. I prefer to mod my grown-up toys. 
2. I lay no claim to being a Comrade. I am a proud Mercan. But I am trying to get my dad to sell his 1952 Russian SKS to me. And get a VEPR. 
3. If you need more than one, you are doing it wrong. 
4. How would you know it doesn't have that?


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## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 26, 2017)

s_fodder said:


> 3. If you need more than one, you are doing it wrong.
> 4. How would you know it doesn't have that?


In answer to #3; You can never have too many M1 Garands. As any serious collector, I recommend the IHC variants for having a high build quality.
In answer to #4; By your own admissions.


> AR-15 5.56 w/ 16" heavy free float barrel, keymod forend, Magpul pistol grip and Fixed Carbine Stock, and an NCSTAR Sniper 3-9x


Free float barrel means free float fore end. Well, Mattel Corporation never made that type of forend. Their manufacturing was right at the start of the 'Nam war.
Fixed Carbine Stock means recent manufacture. Mattel hasn't made buttstocks since the very beginning of the 'Nam war.
I will admit that I don't know about your piece having a forward assist but that's what is so common these days. Good ammo means no need for forward assist. Only when you're firing that milsurp cr@p that seems to be floating around would you actually need that feature. None of my XM variants have forward assist, just like the rifles I trained on and carried in the USAF.

Just some more random thoughts.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 26, 2017)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Collecting takes cash! Believe me, I would have hundreds of firearms, if I had the cash. But as it stands, I am happy with what I do have.


What can I say? Forty years of buying, trading, selling. After a while, you tend to have either nothing to show for your time or a collection that will make your kids cry when they have to sell them after you die. Or fight over them when you die.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 27, 2017)

The rifle issued to me in the USAF for Security Augmentee Duty was a '60's era piece that some poor b@stard probably carried "In Country" before it came back stateside with him. You could make out the word "Mattel" behind the heat shields inside the forarms and under the buttplate. The grip had no markings but I suspect it might have been made by Mattel, too.

All of my .22lr only builds are built on Nodak Spud slicksides as you described; no forward bolt assist and no fence. All triangle forends, smooth buttstocks. One is Mattel equipped, too.


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## AustinB (Feb 27, 2017)

Me personally, I don't like guns. The fact that they can kill you in such a short amount of time where you can't even react or notice what's going on bothers me. I get nervous around guns. If you own them, good for you. I'd only get one for self defense. Like if somebody broke into my house or somebody was putting my life in danger. That's the only reason I'd buy a gun.


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## ReeseDobie (Mar 18, 2017)

I have an all-original Sears & Roebuck single shot 12-gauge shotgun. It's probably.. 70 years old? I inherited it from my biological grandfather when he died. My dad gave it to me for Christmas a few years ago. That thing is my BABY.

My partner has a Remington .22 rifle that was given as a birthday gift.

We plan on having many many more haha. I like big guns. My dad is giving me a bunch of SKS, old German Mauzers, a few muzzle loaders.. (No pun intended!)
Gonna have an armory haha.


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## ReeseDobie (Mar 18, 2017)

AustinB said:


> Me personally, I don't like guns. The fact that they can kill you in such a short amount of time where you can't even react or notice what's going on bothers me. I get nervous around guns. If you own them, good for you. I'd only get one for self defense. Like if somebody broke into my house or somebody was putting my life in danger. That's the only reason I'd buy a gun.



Guns don't inherently kill people. People kill people.
My guns sitting in my bedroom haven't gotten a wild hair and attacked us in the middle of the night. And they're not gonna.
Your best bet to calm your nervousness is to take some safety and training classes. Learn how to use, aim, clean, take care of a gun. That way, IF that situation ever arises that you have to use it, you're not shaking and thinking "OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD I'M HOLDING A GUN" instead of "Hold steady, aim, inhale, hold breath, pull trigger, wait." In order to properly defend yourself, you need to take offensive actions to prepare yourself.


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## Sagt (Mar 18, 2017)

ReeseDobie said:


> Guns don't inherently kill people. People kill people.
> My guns sitting in my bedroom haven't gotten a wild hair and attacked us in the middle of the night. And they're not gonna.
> Your best bet to calm your nervousness is to take some safety and training classes. Learn how to use, aim, clean, take care of a gun. That way, IF that situation ever arises that you have to use it, you're not shaking and thinking "OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD I'M HOLDING A GUN" instead of "Hold steady, aim, inhale, hold breath, pull trigger, wait." In order to properly defend yourself, you need to take offensive actions to prepare yourself.


Yes people kill people, but the most commonly used (at least in The States) and deadly weapon used for killing is a gun. I mean, have a look at the number of deaths and wounded from the school and mass shootings, it truly is sickening.

Honestly, if you live in an area where you need a gun for self-defence, then I would suggest you move to somewhere actually nice.


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## Jarren (Mar 18, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Yes people kill people, but the most commonly used (at least in The States) and deadly weapon used for killing is a gun. I mean, have a look at the number of deaths and wounded from the school and mass shootings, it truly is sickening.
> 
> Honestly, if you live in an area where you need a gun for self-defence, then I would suggest you move to somewhere actually nice.


The problem is that a lot of people who live in those areas don't really have the option to move, sadly.
Also, I was about to question your assertion of firearms being the most used tool (I honestly believed sharp and blunt weapons were slightly more commonly used), but I looked up the FBI stats and.... damn. Granted, firearms homicides are trending downward, which is nice, but that's true of homicides in general.

In other news, poisonings are making a comeback  Up more than 100% from the previous count.


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## ReeseDobie (Mar 18, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Yes people kill people, but the most commonly used (at least in The States) and deadly weapon used for killing is a gun. I mean, have a look at the number of deaths and wounded from the school and mass shootings, it truly is sickening.
> 
> Honestly, if you live in an area where you need a gun for self-defence, then I would suggest you move to somewhere actually nice.



But again, there's no reason to be afraid of the inanimate object unless it's being pointed AT you.
As someone who has had both family members AND exes hold a gun to my head, guns do not make me nervous. My father, as well as the Navy, taught me how to handle a gun and how to handle MYSELF with a gun in my hand. Take some classes to assure yourself.


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## Sagt (Mar 18, 2017)

ReeseDobie said:


> But again, there's no reason to be afraid of the inanimate object unless it's being pointed AT you.
> As someone who has had both family members AND exes hold a gun to my head, guns do not make me nervous. My father, as well as the Navy, taught me how to handle a gun and how to handle MYSELF with a gun in my hand. Take some classes to assure yourself.


I would disagree with that. Guns are dangerous, so I think there is reason for people to be afraid of them. In countries that have less lenient gun laws, where the population see guns much less often, it makes even more sense. If someone (even if it was a family member or friend) actually pointed a gun at me, I would be scared. 



Jarren said:


> The problem is that a lot of people who live in those areas don't really have the option to move, sadly.
> Also, I was about to question your assertion of firearms being the most used tool (I honestly believed sharp and blunt weapons were slightly more commonly used), but I looked up the FBI stats and.... damn. Granted, firearms homicides are trending downward, which is nice, but that's true of homicides in general.
> 
> In other news, poisonings are making a comeback  Up more than 100% from the previous count.


Fair point, but supposedly most people that own guns are actually middle-income, so most of them should be able to move away from dangerous areas.

While it's true that firearm homicides are going down, it should also be mentioned that firearm ownership in general is also going down.


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## -Praydeth- (Mar 18, 2017)

Ahh a thread that is somewhat suitable for me to post pics of beautiful guns on.


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## Jarren (Mar 18, 2017)

Lcs said:


> I would disagree with that. Guns are dangerous, so I think there is reason for people to be afraid of them. In countries that have less lenient gun laws, where the population see guns much less often, it makes even more sense. If someone (even if it was a family member or friend) actually pointed a gun at me, I would be scared.
> 
> 
> Fair point, but supposedly most people that own guns are actually middle-income, so most of them should be able to move away from dangerous areas.
> ...


It should also be mentioned that firearm sales and manufacture have increased greatly as well. The people who want/need guns are buying more of them (guilty  ), the public as a whole are less interested. However, keep in mind that this does not take into account private sales, which cannot be accurately documented.


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## Sagt (Mar 18, 2017)

Jarren said:


> It should also be mentioned that firearm sales and manufacture have increased greatly as well. The people who want/need guns are buying more of them (guilty  ), the public as a whole are less interested. However, keep in mind that this does not take into account private sales, which cannot be accurately documented.


From my understanding, the sales are primarily being bought by people that already own multiple guns. To elaborate on this, I recently read that 3% of all gun owners in America own about half of the guns. This meaning that there are people that own something like 18 guns each, so I would say that the increase in sales isn't particularly relevant for gun violence.


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## Jarren (Mar 18, 2017)

Lcs said:


> From my understanding, the sales are primarily being bought by people that already own multiple guns. To elaborate on this, I recently read that 3% of all gun owners in America own about half of the guns. This meaning that there are people that own something like 18 guns each, so I would say that the increase in sales isn't particularly relevant for gun violence.


Very true. I mostly bring it up because of a strange view I've seen expressed (not here, but elsewhere) that the "firearms industry is dying along with the demographic that supports it." It seems to be alive and well, despite everything and all the while the violence people seem to think is out of control is on the decline (along with most crime. It's almost like we're getting better at being nice to one another).
There are a good number of people who buy firearms and then resell them because they either don't like the gun as much as they thought, have no use for it, or need/want cash. Those people can sell to another resident without any sort of paperwork or background check. Purchases/transfers from a dealer (FFL) or transactions involving NFA items are the only ones tracked. So, depending on how the data was gathered for the 3% owning >50% (Which I don't think is too far off the mark) there is likely a  portion of the population who owns a firearm purchased this way who might not be counted in the ownership surveys and it could change the data a bit. Again though, we have no real way of knowing this statistic shy of self reporting, which would be a logistical nightmare in and of itself.


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## ReeseDobie (Mar 18, 2017)

Lcs said:


> I would disagree with that. Guns are dangerous, so I think there is reason for people to be afraid of them. In countries that have less lenient gun laws, where the population see guns much less often, it makes even more sense. If someone (even if it was a family member or friend) actually pointed a gun at me, I would be scared.



A gun is not going to randomly go off. It's just not. Not without SOME sort of provocation. (Extreme heat, someone pulling a trigger..)
If you were to come into my house right now, you'd never know I owned guns unless I told you. They don't make noise, they don't randomly "attack" people. There is nothing to be afraid of unless there's a person threatening you on the other side of the barrel.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Mar 19, 2017)

Got my first one the other day. Was about time.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 19, 2017)

I'll make this point because it's an important one. Whenever I have sold a firearm, the transaction has always been done through a gun shop or a FFL holder. That way, the firearm serial number is no longer associated with me. Later on, should that piece be part of a homicide, the Po-Po isn't knocking on my door at three in the morning, arrest warrant in hand. Also, if that person ends up being unable to own a firearm for whatever reason, I'm not at fault and that person doesn't get a weapon that might later on get them in trouble with the police, BATF, etc.

Just sayin', since firearms theft by drug users is still an issue and those stolen arms are more than likely to end up in use by strong-arm robbers.


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## Aleksion (Mar 19, 2017)

People who are afraid of home invasions, wouldn't a quality door and break-resistant windows suffice?


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## Sagt (Mar 19, 2017)

ReeseDobie said:


> A gun is not going to randomly go off. It's just not. Not without SOME sort of provocation. (Extreme heat, someone pulling a trigger..)
> If you were to come into my house right now, you'd never know I owned guns unless I told you. They don't make noise, they don't randomly "attack" people. There is nothing to be afraid of unless there's a person threatening you on the other side of the barrel.


Thing is, while you may trust others to use their weapon responsibly, I don't. Call me paranoid or whatever, but I'd rather not put my life in someone else's hands. Accidents happen all the time and even if unlikely to occur to me, I'm not interested in testing my luck.

Also, like I said earlier, some people aren't from America. Over here in the UK, most of our police don't even have guns and the citizens that do own guns primarily use them just for hunting. I've lived in The States in the past and so I'm familiar with the gun culture, but I can easily understand if others from my/another country get nervous at the thought of there being so many people with guns. Particularly since some of these gun owners may not have had the same training as you did.


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## Kezi Avdiivka (Mar 19, 2017)

While we sit infront of our computers in a safe place where we have spent countless days. One must not forget that everyday we are alive, it is a gift. We live in a horrible harsh world. People's lives change in an instant whether or not they want it too. We as humans have a personal duty to ensure our own survival no matter the cost and we do this by being aware of our surroundings, by being prepared to fight or flee like is ingrained in our DNA, and if necessary, end the threat by any means nessescary. There is no shame in owning a firearm and we who do understand that there is a great responsibility given to us when we are given one. No matter what your thoughts are on the matter, we must accept that these tools will always be present in our lives whether or not we want them to be.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 19, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> People who are afraid of home invasions, wouldn't a quality door and break-resistant windows suffice?


Um, no. While there are ways to 'harden' your windows and doors, if they can open, they can be opened by force. There is a film that can be applied to your windows to keep them together but the window proper will come out of the frame eventually. Doors are bit more secure when a stop bolt has been installed in the floor but again, the door can eventually be defeated. This knowledge comes from experience. Even a good, solid core steel clad door will succumb to a good battering ram. They stole that dOOd's entire guitar collection, worth millions, while ADT tried to call  the owner on vacation to see if it was a false alarm. They had roughly twenty minutes and one of my brethren probably passed their stolen U-Haul full of equipment on the way to the call.

If you can design it, it can be defeated. When I had meth heads break into my house, they kicked the door, steel frame and all out of the wall. They also walked right past an alarm keypad that was screaming holy hell because it had been activated by their intrusion.

It's a sad fact that some people, due to financial situations, cannot move away to a better place to live.


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## Multoran (Mar 19, 2017)

I don't actually own a gun yet, but I'd like to have a hand gun and maybe even a rifle one day.
-
While it's true that guns themselves are not responsible for murder, they certainly make murder a lot easier to commit. For that reason, they should be *reasonably* controlled, and not in such a way that prevents responsible, trained individuals from obtaining a means to defend themselves and their family.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

I don't own one YET, but I'm a pretty good shot- even then, a good set of knives is far deadlier in a home invasion than pulling a gun any day (stealth mode activated)


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Um, no. While there are ways to 'harden' your windows and doors, if they can open, they can be opened by force. There is a film that can be applied to your windows to keep them together but the window proper will come out of the frame eventually. Doors are bit more secure when a stop bolt has been installed in the floor but again, the door can eventually be defeated. This knowledge comes from experience. Even a good, solid core steel clad door will succumb to a good battering ram. They stole that dOOd's entire guitar collection, worth millions, while ADT tried to call  the owner on vacation to see if it was a false alarm. They had roughly twenty minutes and one of my brethren probably passed their stolen U-Haul full of equipment on the way to the call.
> 
> If you can design it, it can be defeated. When I had meth heads break into my house, they kicked the door, steel frame and all out of the wall. They also walked right past an alarm keypad that was screaming holy hell because it had been activated by their intrusion.
> 
> It's a sad fact that some people, due to financial situations, cannot move away to a better place to live.



With enough time and right tools even the world's safest bank vault can be opened. Most burglaries are smash and grab style, so if burglars can't enter quickly they are likely to leave.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> With enough time and right tools even the world's safest bank vault can be opened. Most burglaries are smash and grab style, so if burglars can't enter quickly they are likely to leave.


Woefully ignorant as usual, it seems


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## Simo (Mar 20, 2017)

Nope. I'd be too scared I'd shoot myself, during a depressive episode...would be too dangerous to have around. My cousin shot himself on his 21st birthday, maybe 5 years ago? It was February, in Michigan, in the snow. Then, I also had an aunt and uncle kill themselves, via an OD; my brother made some very close attempts.

So given my family history, a gun would not be wise for me; I may seem pretty well balanced, here, but IRL, I have some very extreme states.

It's curious, too: guns are used more often in suicide, than homicide...living in Baltimore, that struck me as curious.


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## Jarren (Mar 20, 2017)

Simo said:


> Nope. I'd be too scared I'd shoot myself, during a depressive episode...would be too dangerous to have around. My cousin shot himself on his 21st birthday, maybe 5 years ago? It was February, in Michigan, in the snow. Then, I also had an aunt and uncle kill themselves, via an OD; my brother made some very close attempts.
> 
> So given my family history, a gun would not be wise for me; I may seem pretty well balanced, here, but IRL, I have some very extreme states.
> 
> It's curious, too: guns are used more often in suicide, than homicide...living in Baltimore, that struck me as curious.


It is a bit unsettling to look at the number of gun homicides compared to suicides. It speaks of a massive lack of metal health support in the U.S.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Jarren said:


> It is a bit unsettling to look at the number of gun homicides compared to suicides. It speaks of a massive lack of metal health support in the U.S.


Amen, reverend... I think I understand why they don't allow guns on college campuses- it's not for the safety of others, it's for the safety of one's self


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## Sagt (Mar 20, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> Amen, reverend... I think I understand why they don't allow guns on college campuses- it's not for the safety of others, it's for the safety of one's self


More likely is that it's done not only for the safety of the owners, but also the other students.

By the way, some college campuses do allow firearms and even concealed carry permits interestingly enough.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Lcs said:


> More likely is that it's done not only for the safety of the owners, but also the other students.
> 
> By the way, some college campuses do allow firearms and even concealed carry permits interestingly enough.


I can only speak for my college... they make us lock up any weapons we have at the Police Department


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Jarren said:


> It is a bit unsettling to look at the number of gun homicides compared to suicides. It speaks of a massive lack of metal health support in the U.S.


Or that guns are sold to anyone. Ironically by having a gun you're at higher risk of dying


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> Or that guns are sold to anyone


Woefully ignorant, yet again. When you try to buy a gun, you have to pass a background check. It's not as simple as "I like gun, take my money" like you seem to want us to believe


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> Woefully ignorant, yet again. When you try to buy a gun, you have to pass a background check. It's not as simple as "I like gun, take my money" like you seem to want us to believe



oh bugger off. Anyone does not have to mean 100%, 99% is still anyone in this case


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> oh bugger off. Anyone does not have to mean 100%, 99% is still anyone in this case


*Shakes head* Mods, time to close this one- it's 3 posts away from going to sh*t


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## Jarren (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> Or that guns are sold to anyone. Ironically by having a gun you're at higher risk of dying


By the same rationale, you're much more likely to be kicked to death by a horse if you own a horse than if you don't. Also, firearm accidents don't account for much of that, it's mostly suicides, which are a choice (sometimes impulsive and always ill advised) so they're not much more dangerous than, say, chainsaws or ladders on the basis of ownership alone.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Jarren said:


> By the same rationale, you're much more likely to be kicked to death by a horse is you own a horse than if you don't. Also, firearm accidents don't account for much of that, it's mostly suicides, which are a choice (sometimes impulsive and always ill advised) so they're not much more dangerous than, say, chainsaws or ladders on the basis of ownership alone.


FINALLY, some logic in this thread. First in a while


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Jarren said:


> By the same rationale, you're much more likely to be kicked to death by a horse is you own a horse than if you don't. Also, firearm accidents don't account for much of that, it's mostly suicides, which are a choice (sometimes impulsive and always ill advised) so they're not much more dangerous than, say, chainsaws or ladders on the basis of ownership alone.



People are aware of those risk, however for many owning guns give a false sense of security.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> People are aware of those risk, however for a many owning guns give a false sense of security.


Fallacy. You're begging the question.


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> Fallacy. You're begging the question.



no.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> no.


For most of us, it's not about the sense of security- it's about the fact that a gun is badass or is fun to fire or just looks really nice. You're begging the question of "why even buy a gun"

You have yet to prove that you can out-logic me... so go ahead. Try to surprise me with a well planned and reasoned response, backed by verifiable data from a reliable source. And you'd do well not to attempt to insult me solely because I disagree


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> For most of us, it's not about the sense of security- it's about the fact that a gun is badass or is fun to fire or just looks really nice. You're begging the question of "why even buy a gun"
> 
> You have yet to prove that you can out-logic me... so go ahead. Try to surprise me with a well planned and reasoned response, backed by verifiable data from a reliable source. And you'd do well not to attempt to insult me solely because I disagree



If you buy a gun knowing it's more likely to kill you than to save you, more power to you.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 20, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> If you buy a gun knowing it's more likely to kill you than to save you, more power to you.


Attempt failed. 2 remaining

You're using the logic of a 5th grader- not going to fly in an otherwise educated discussion...

Currently muted... get back to you later (when I can talk)


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## Jarren (Mar 20, 2017)

@Crimson_Steel17 , @Aleksion  can you two please stop bickering before you get my thread locked? I like my thread, it was a nice place.


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## Aleksion (Mar 20, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> Attempt failed. 2 remaining
> 
> You're using the logic of a 5th grader- not going to fly in an otherwise educated discussion...



Since you're so educated on this subject can please tell me how many people do legally own guns and how many do commit suicides with them in the us? Then compare to adults who do not own guns and commit suicide by other methods. I'm very curious if having a gun increases the risk of successful suicide.


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## AustinB (Mar 20, 2017)

Simo said:


> Nope. I'd be too scared I'd shoot myself, during a depressive episode...would be too dangerous to have around. My cousin shot himself on his 21st birthday, maybe 5 years ago? It was February, in Michigan, in the snow. Then, I also had an aunt and uncle kill themselves, via an OD; my brother made some very close attempts.
> 
> So given my family history, a gun would not be wise for me; I may seem pretty well balanced, here, but IRL, I have some very extreme states.
> 
> It's curious, too: guns are used more often in suicide, than homicide...living in Baltimore, that struck me as curious.


Jesus dude. That's a lot to go through. I don't know what I would do if I had 3 family members commit suicide and my brother attempt suicide multiple times as well. Sorry that had to happen to you. Is depression a thing that runs through the family?


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## Simo (Mar 20, 2017)

AustinB said:


> Jesus dude. That's a lot to go through. I don't know what I would do if I had 3 family members commit suicide and my brother attempt suicide multiple times as well. Sorry that had to happen to you. Is depression a thing that runs through the family?



It is kind of odd, given I don't have a very large family, and that these deaths happened on both my mother's and father's side, and with an aunt related by marriage...and that my brother is adopted. Nature and nurture, perhaps...and yet my (immediate) family looks and seems sane enough, to all outward appearances. But yeah, it does seem depression runs through my family, in more ways than seem likely.

I also agree that the 'impulsive' nature of such states is a huge, understated part; a sure and quick means at hand has shown to be very highly correlated.

Guns and suicide: Harvard Study:This paints a decent outline; there's lot of literature out there on this, and it's not always cut and dry, by any means: www.hsph.harvard.edu: Suicide

Well, having fought at points to stay alive, I've avoided guns...I think if I took up something similar, it'd be archery; maybe become Robin Hood! I think that'd be more fun, I'd be a good Robin Hood.


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## Jarren (Mar 20, 2017)

Simo said:


> Well, having fought at points to stay alive, I've avoided guns...I think if I took up something similar, it'd be archery; maybe become Robin Hood! I think that'd be more fun, I'd be a good Robin Hood.


I don't know about archery, dude. I mean, first you've gotta buy the bow and the arrows. Then you get a taste for it, and you're picking up a compound bow. Then a longbow. Then Crossbows catch your attention and you eventually move on to a full-blown ballista. Then you buy a few more, get some friends together, and the next thing you know you end up laying siege to Carthage. I dunno. It seems like a real commitment to me 
In all seriousness, archery is really fun and arguably requires more skill to perform well at than rifle/handgun sports, and it's got a wonderful amount of history and application behind it. I've kind of regretted not pursuing it further when I was first introduced to it.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 21, 2017)

Another dumb piece of trivia. Getting called to either a home or a hospital to take a report from a person that shot himself/herself. It always seemed to start with the statement, "I was just cleaning my weapon . . ."

I always follow a rule that says check the chamber first. Even if I see you check the firearm, I will do so again once I have it in my possession.

True story; I was at the local to me indoor range with my wife and oldest daughter some twenty-odd years ago. I was shooting a Redhawk converted to .475 Linebaugh, the wife and daughter were practicing with the .38 Specials using some 110g HBWC rounds and the range master was shooting his 'tuned' AMT Longslide Hardballer in the bay next to me. I finished for the night (when my shooting glove split in the palm)  so he finished his magazine, ejected the magazine, waited until we were out of the range area to pull the trigger to drop the hammer. It still had a live round in it due to a number of flaws in his gunsmithing and general gun handling. He almost shot his right big toe off, scaring the sh!t out of himself and everyone that was in the range at that time.

The piece was confiscated at the scene and examined carefully by a local master armorer. It was very easy to repeat that same malfunction, since the slide would fail to lock back about fifty percent of the time. It lulled him into a false sense of security, that it was unloaded when in fact, it still had one more round in it, just waiting for his ignorance to strike. Lessons learned? One, If you are not a trained gunsmith, do no modifications to a firearm. Period. Two, always check the chamber, do not just assume it is clear.

An amateur gunsmith tried to lighten the trigger on a Ruger 10/22. He was Joe Clueless from Cluelessville. He decided the first magazine to use after the mods would be a 100 round drum stoked with the famous(infamous?) Yellowjacket High Velocity ammo. He pulled the trigger once, it fired 87 rounds full auto before a stovepipe jam stopped the process. He p!ssed himself. I dove for cover, just in case he swept the barrel around, looking for help. I damn near shat myself, too. The 10/22 makes a scary 'ripping' sound in full auto.

Just sayin'


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 21, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> Since you're so educated on this subject can please tell me how many people do legally own guns and how many do commit suicides with them in the us?


The exact number of owners would be difficult to ascertain, as simply looking into the legal paper trail only accounts for guns sold legally, and disregards owners with multiple firearms and criminals with guns off of the black market. The number of suicides using a firearm, regardless of ownership of said firearm, while it may seem large, only accounts for small fraction of all causes of death- approximately 0.0067% of the population annually, according to the CDC. It is worth noting that the fatality rate for injuries sustained in a collision, regardless of who was at fault and the position of the vehicle at time of impact, and regardless of number of impacts, is greater- to the tune of approximately 0.0106% of the population annually according to the CDC.


Aleksion said:


> Then compare to adults who do not own guns and commit suicide by other methods.


There is actually an additional category you must include, which actually skews the data in a way not noted by the CDC or any other major authority on the raw statistics regarding fatality rates. Because such statistics are not kept, this question is impossible to answer accurately on the basis that the raw statistic for suicide rate by method is inaccurate itself.


Aleksion said:


> I'm very curious if having a gun increases the risk of successful suicide.


Statistically, while this idea shows a glimmer of truth, no method of suicide is more or less successful than another- and the simple reason is that statistics are not kept for _unsuccessful_ attempts by method. Even if there were, it would have to be a sub-statistic of nonfatal injuries by method- and neither the CDC nor any other major authority on the raw statistics of injuries and fatalities by method tracks this. Additionally, the statistics on hand can only account for method by choice, and this only tells how often a method is preferred over others regardless of success. Overall, another argument with great potential wasted by facts.

Attempt failed, 1 remaining.
The data you requested debunked the vague position you attempted to take. Also, you attempted to take a vague position and force me to back into a corner- all while insisting that because I'm "so educated" in subject matter that I was some kind of scum or false prophet.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 25, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> *Sigh* anytime someone posts a thread about firearms, inevitably it seems that it's always going to degrade into a political/crime statistics thread. See, this is why we can't have nice things, like a nice, pleasant and enjoyable thread.
> 
> 
> 
> How in the hell does someone shoot themselves while cleaning a firearm? I've never understood that. When I'm cleaning a firearm, I've always got a cleaning rod/cable stuffed down the bore with a patch or brush on the end of it. No way is a round going to get chambered with that in the way, even if I was being negligent, which I NEVER am.


I agree. As for the bit about the physics of people shooting themselves, they're dumbasses that don't know to check the chamber visually while keeping the firearm pointed AWAY from ANY part of them


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 25, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> 1. Muzzle discipline
> 2. Trigger discipline
> 3. "ALWAYS treat EVERY firearm as if it is loaded."
> 4. "Know your target and what is beyond it."
> ...


One more for you (that I learned at BSA summer camp): "If you are unsure about ANY part of the shot you are about to take, then do NOT discharge your firearm"

And you're absolutely right... although you just managed to sum up about 30 rules in 4 points (much better than Daisy could do with their Red Ryder instruction manuals), and I doubt most people take the time to actually pay attention to AND apply them- no wonder so many dumbasses manage to handle a firearm before anyone can trust that they're not a hazard to everyone else on the range. Honestly, I feel that there's a strong argument for requiring schools to educate students on the dangers of (mis)handling firearms, and how to avoid firearm-related injuries- even though I know it will never happen (even as Driver's ed was cut long ago), I still feel it deserves recognition as a option.

But above all else, it all comes down to "Think, stay calm, and don't do anything without first thinking about the potential consequences if it goes wrong." Just my 2 cents worth, though.


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## KimberVaile (Mar 25, 2017)

I own a 70's Ruger Six Shot, and a 50's Remington 11-48  automatic 16 gauge shot gun, both were inherited. Can't say I' m a good shot, but they're good guns for what they are, might be because of how overly cautious I am about firing them, but I digress, not oppsoed to gun ownership.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 25, 2017)

Although I will not get into what was shared by said owners that shot themselves, I'm sure it was failure to safety the weapon, i.e. make damned sure it was unloaded before wiping it down. I almost never observed cleaning supplies in the vicinity when there was a idiot-induced discharge.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 25, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Although I will not get into what was shared by said owners that shot themselves, I'm sure it was failure to safety the weapon, i.e. make damned sure it was unloaded before wiping it down. I almost never observed cleaning supplies in the vicinity when there was a idiot-induced discharge.


Yeah, that's the most common scenario: safety off, didn't visually inspect the chamber, unaware of muzzle direction (towards themselves)... in all honesty, I don't know WHAT makes these people commit that mistake- but I can tell you that it's something I've never done myself (apparent from the _lack_ of bullet holes...)


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## Zenoth (Mar 26, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> Yeah, that's the most common scenario: safety off, didn't visually inspect the chamber, unaware of muzzle direction (towards themselves)... in all honesty, I don't know WHAT makes these people commit that mistake- but I can tell you that it's something I've done myself (apparent from the _lack_ of bullet holes...)



I second this. When ever i'm cleaning my gun, the safety is on, the mag is out, the chamber is triple checked, and it's disassembled.  I think the 'I was cleaning it crowd' are just embarrassed and don't want to own up to their own stupidity.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 26, 2017)

Zenoth said:


> I second this. When ever i'm cleaning my gun, the safety is on, the mag is out, the chamber is triple checked, and it's disassembled.  I think the 'I was cleaning it crowd' are just embarrassed and don't want to own up to their own stupidity.


I think some are embarrassed but I feel like the majority of said "Self shootings" were the obvious. They actually didn't feel it necessary to check the chamber. Picked up the weapon, pointed it around like an idiot, then tried to do a few fast draws. What I did notice to be a trend what the fact most injuries were to the legs or hands. Fast draw gone wrong? There seemed to be holsters in view at some of the incidents.

Story from the "beat" days; I was called to a house where there had been a domestic violence incident the previous week. As I'm rolling code 2/3, I hear an ambulance called by my brethren on scene. The wife, tired of the hubby beating her senseless, pulled his Glock 23 on the dOOd, just to frighten him off. It was loaded and she did not practice safe weapons discipline by keeping her finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot. No Bueno. She shot him in the shoulder when he grabbed the weapon and pulled on it to take it from her. Or maybe he actually shot himself by grabbing that Glock? He survived but went to jail for a while because he battered the sh!t out of her. The judge fined her $2,000 USD for discharging a weapon inside the city limits.


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## Zenoth (Mar 26, 2017)

Damn that's one hellova situation >.<, maybe next time he'll think twice before battering his wife, though probably not T.T

On the quick draw thing, I don't know if it's EVERY holster, but the ones I own, on the lil care paper that comes with they have a line that says "while breaking in this holster and getting used to it, do so with an UNLOADED firearm" with the unloaded part in big bold red letters. You know they have to be big bold red letters from people in the past shooting themselves in the leg. 

Some people should just never own or be around firearms ^^.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 26, 2017)

Zenoth said:


> Damn that's one hellova situation >.<, maybe next time he'll think twice before battering his wife, though probably not T.T
> 
> On the quick draw thing, I don't know if it's EVERY holster, but the ones I own, on the lil care paper that comes with they have a line that says "while breaking in this holster and getting used to it, do so with an UNLOADED firearm" with the unloaded part in big bold red letters. You know they have to be big bold red letters from people in the past shooting themselves in the leg.
> 
> _*Some people should just never own or be around firearms*_ ^^.


Yeah, this. Most leg shots? Dominant side. Most hand shots? Off or weak hand. I have observed that warning notice laying around with the packaging that new holster just came in. I can't remember the brand off-hand. You would think they would _*at least*_ unload the damned thing before trying to be Quickdraw McGraw.


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 26, 2017)

I really hate to say this, but I hate guns.
I think I actually have a phobia just when they're within a mere distance from me. I remember my first time near a gun when my Uncle Ben took me to a shooting gallery in a small town and I was absolutely terrified of just being within a mere distance of that handgun.

When I held that thing upon request, my hands instantly became clammy, and I began sweating uncontrollably. When I FIRED that thing at the target, I literally jumped at the sound, and dropped the gun on the floor in front of my feet, and it scared the heck out of me and my Uncle.

I absolutely hate guns, because I am a very anti-violent person.


And yet, despite my phobia of guns, I want to get one for my future house when I'm older because I'm not particularly strong, and I want to have a sense of security because I know that deep down, there will always be violent and unpredictable people. 
Talk about rhetorical irony...
 X_X


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 27, 2017)

Zenoth said:


> I second this. When ever i'm cleaning my gun, the safety is on, the mag is out, the chamber is triple checked, and it's disassembled.  I think the 'I was cleaning it crowd' are just embarrassed and don't want to own up to their own stupidity.


I just went back and re-read my post that you replied to... I meant to say "I've *never* done that"

Oops... here's to proof reading!


PoptartPresident said:


> I really hate to say this, but I hate guns.
> I think I actually have a phobia just when they're within a mere distance from me. I remember my first time near a gun when my Uncle Ben took me to a shooting gallery in a small town and I was absolutely terrified of just being within a mere distance of that handgun.
> 
> When I held that thing upon request, my hands instantly became clammy, and I began sweating uncontrollably. When I FIRED that thing at the target, I literally jumped at the sound, and dropped the gun on the floor in front of my feet, and it scared the heck out of me and my Uncle.
> ...


Hey, no problems to be had with that, man! If you don't like guns, that's cool... I know quite a few people that don't care for them either. And I can really appreciate that you _tried_ firing one before coming to the conclusion that it's not for you... something most of the rest of the anti- crowd doesn't even bother with.

As for your last point, do what you wish- and yeah, that's some pretty ironic shit right there. But all in all (and this is something both sides of the coin can take to heart in this argument), I respect your opinion and I'm not going to force mine down your throat. You're within your rights to refuse to be around guns, even as I'm within my rights to hit the range whenever possible... you went above and beyond by ruling out being around them by trying it, but that's beside the point. 

This thread is for an informed discussion, and we can have that with both sides of the argument present- the key, however, is to respect that both sides have done some kind of thinking, and each individual has come to his/her own conclusion on the matter... no amount of demanding statistics, debating cause-effect scenarios or anything else is going to "convert" a follower of one position to the other- and it's just bloody rude to that anyway.

Regardless, thanks for putting up with my wall of text, and have a good one!


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## Arwing Ace (Mar 27, 2017)

PoptartPresident said:


> I really hate to say this, but I hate guns.
> I think I actually have a phobia just when they're within a mere distance from me. I remember my first time near a gun when my Uncle Ben took me to a shooting gallery in a small town and I was absolutely terrified of just being within a mere distance of that handgun.
> 
> When I held that thing upon request, my hands instantly became clammy, and I began sweating uncontrollably. When I FIRED that thing at the target, I literally jumped at the sound, and dropped the gun on the floor in front of my feet, and it scared the heck out of me and my Uncle.
> ...



Well, you definitely don't sound like someone who was raised around guns. I guess your apprehension is understandable, but if you can find an NRA basic firearm safety course to sign up for where you'll have the opportunity to handle and learn about different firearms in a controlled and supervised environment, then I think that would do a lot to help relieve your fears. It will give you the knowledge and confidence you need to feel more comfortable around them.


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Well, you definitely don't sound like someone who was raised around guns. I guess your apprehension is understandable, but if you can find an NRA basic firearm safety course to sign up for where you'll have the opportunity to handle and learn about different firearms in a controlled and supervised environment, then I think that would do a lot to help relieve your fears. It will give you the knowledge and confidence you need to feel more comfortable around them.



Oh yeah I wasn't.
I was raised to be kind, courteous, and to give everyone a chance at participating in my life. And I was taught violence just isn't a good solution to anything.

But at the same time...ya know. There are crazy people in this world and since I'm not particularly strong (nor do I really want to be), I would still like some sense of personal security around my house.
(And if I have a future husband, I still don't want to have to rely on someone else)


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> One of the things that I've come to realize in my life is that civilization is a myth. All the little civilities and common courtesies that we are accustomed to in daily life go right along with that. The truth is that "civilization" is nothing but an artificial construct, just a thin veneer of falsehood that glosses over the reality of the world that we live in, and that reality is that we live in a naturally violent and uncertain world, and humans are just highly developed animals with inate animal instincts that we can and will revert to under the right circumstances. Just see what happens when the power or water goes off for more than a week, or there is a massive fuel shortage and the grocery store shelves go empty. "Civilization" and social order starts to quickly break down, and people begin reverting to their most base, natural survival instincts. Even the nicest, most decent people can turn violent if they become desperate for food, water, or other essentials. Simply put, it is in our nature to be violent and brutish, just like many other creatures in the natural world. Some of us are more prone to this than others, and sometimes you just have to be prepared to defend yourself from those two-legged predators out there who might view you as their prey. And of course, even under the best circumstances, you can still find yourself in a bad situation. Being aware, being self-sufficient, and being able to defend yourself is a big part of being ready to deal with these facts of life.



All true.
Partially why I plan to move to a slightly smaller town where people at least have the common courtesy to know their neighbors names. I can't take much more of this urbanized air anymore.


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> That's a very sensible decision.



Well I mean after being raised in an urban city for 17 years you start to wonder if the air could ever smell better or if there's something more visually appealing than the tended parks, and random neighbors who you'll never know the names of.


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## Jarren (Mar 27, 2017)

PoptartPresident said:


> All true.
> Partially why I plan to move to a slightly smaller town where people at least have the common courtesy to know their neighbors names. I can't take much more of this urbanized air anymore.


I live in a small town. I have for 24 years. I can't name half my neighbors 
The less urbanized you get the better your quality of life in my experience. I've got family who live in cities and they're all miserable. Sure, it's not as economically vibrant, but it makes you appreciate that life is a bit more than just amenities.


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Jarren said:


> I live in a small town. I have for 24 years. I can't name half my neighbors
> The less urbanized you get the better your quality of life in my experience. I've got family who live in cities and they're all miserable. Sure, it's not as economically vibrant, but it makes you appreciate that life is a bit more than just amenities.



Exactly!
Now I'm not gonna lie. I love technology.
And I really like nature, but I don't wanna live in it like a tree hugger.

But it would be nice to live in my own house for a smaller price (non-urban houses tend to be a LOT cheaper than urban ones), and have access to a nice greenfield or scene where I can admire the appealing part of nature


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> There most definitely is. About 20 or 30 minutes to the west of me is some very nice and scenic national forest land. Have you ever had the experience of listening to the absolute, still silence of nature? I have, and it's amazing. By contrast, just 90 miles to the south of me is the bustling metropolis of Denver, CO, and I'm very thankful to not have to deal with all the congestion, traffic, pollution, and obnoxiousness on a daily basis. On the few occasions that I go down there it's always something of a shock, and it's obvious to me why city people are always so stressed out. People just aren't meant to live together in such huge concentrations.



I have never heard pure silence before because anything I could of having as "pure silence" is really just having my head to myself with ambiance of cars going by and the house AC unit in real life.
Another thing too is I (shocker) have a driving phobia. And it doesn't help when the roads in the city aren't made properly, and you're being forced to share the skinny and disgustingly overpainted roads with cars that barely fit on the boundaries. 
I've heard that non-urban areas also tend to have bigger and less crowded roads...which sounds amazing for me

 I'd love to have an experience like that one day.


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## Jarren (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> People just aren't meant to live together in such huge concentrations.


There is experimental precedent for this among mice and rats.


Spoiler: The Universe 25 Experiment



Read about it here







Living outside of large urban centers does also make dealing with power outages and other hiccups of the modern system easier to deal with. You learn to get on fairly well on your own after the third or fourth ice storm. Plus, with all the protests/riots bubbling up around the country right now, there's less risk of damage to you or your property if you are not near those while they happen. Yet another bonus, and relevant to this thread, is that rural areas tend to have laxer firearm regulations and more open-air ranges.


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Well yeah, the roads around here definitely aren't that crowded compared to Denver. To me, driving just about anywhere along Colorado's front range corridor is an anxiety and/or anger inducing experience, and it just keeps getting worse all the time. It can actually be pretty scary. Just about every time I go down there I see crashed and rolled-over vehicles lying in the median.



Imagine being in a city where the buildings are so tall that none of the roads have much light, and the cars around you are on their phones, and not paying attention to the huge amount of traffic that is mere inches from their vehicles.

Also, there is just something I absolutely hate about the scent of downtown. It just smells so unappealing and I don't like being on those sidewalks


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 27, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> I already experience idiots with phones glued to their ears on a fairly regular basis, albeit on a smaller scale, I assume.
> 
> 
> 
> Life in the big shitty.



Lol...

So weird. A lot of you guys here are above 20 and I feel like I haven't had a conversation like this in years


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## PoptartPresident (Mar 29, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Neither have I. Strangely enough, that's what I come here for, but it doesn't happen often.




Honestly I only came here to suggest something for Furaffinity because that's usually what Forums are for in the first place. To comment and make suggestions about whatever the Forums are devoted to.


But these forums are really special...in an oddly appealing way maybe this place could be considered a new social media site


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## Jarren (Apr 24, 2017)

*Preps defibrillators*
So, let's bring this thread back to life and back on topic.
*Delivers shock*

I was bumbling around a local gun show the other day (several weeks back) and I stumbled upon this fugly looking abomination.


Spoiler: Fugly Looking Abomination Contained Within









That, my friends, is a poor, innocent, mosin nagant that's been ripped from it's original furniture and mountings and cobbled into some awkward looking bullpup monstrosity. I'm not even sure how you can actually fully cycle the bolt, truth be told, unless they somehow converted it to straight pull. I don't understand what there is to gain by making a bolt action bullpup, and I'm a fan of the platform. The guy was not really forthcoming with information, so I feel like it's some notionally functional cludge someone pawned off on him that he just can't seem to sell, but I digress. So, thoughts on sporterizing old mil-surp guns? Do you like the idea, or do you find it horrifying that people could do things like this to such time-tested hardware? Do you OWN a frankengun like this? I wanna know.



Apart from the abomination, I managed to snag a nearly mint condition ( the thing had to have been unissued) Turkish mauser. It shoots beautifully and while the action isn't quite as smooth  as you'd expect from a German made version, it runs well. They're coming into the country fairly cheap at the moment, so if you like mausers, I'd pick one up before the supply goes the way of the dodo bird.

Also, has anyone heard any news about the hearing protection act? Did it die in congress, or is it still being ironed out? I haven't heard any info for more than a month.


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## Surreal Mentality (Apr 24, 2017)

If you want the best deals on milsurp munitions buy French. Guaranteed unfired.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Apr 25, 2017)

The only firearm I've ever owned was a Gamo air rifle. This thread makes my penis feel intimidated.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Apr 25, 2017)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> I've got a pretty good spread.
> 
> www.furaffinity.net: (resubmission) The Arsenal @ 5/30/2016 by SSJ3Mewtwo


OK I've gotta ask, since you were in the Navy does that give you access to specialized artillery?


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## SniperCoon2882 (Apr 25, 2017)

Currently I've got a (new at time of posting) tactical airsoft AK 74 and an (airsoft) short barreled ar 15 (that's broken at the moment).

I would love to get:
- A Savage Arms Mk. 2 F (or G if i want wood) Savage Arms : Firearms : Model : Mark II F
- An AK 74 (preferably tactical/tacticool)
- A long-barreled AR chambered in 6.5 Grendel
- Concealed Carry Pistol (maybe a S&W M&P 9  Shield) www.smith-wesson.com: M&P®9 SHIELD™ | Smith & Wesson

But for now, just gotta focus on getting through (and paying for) college.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Apr 25, 2017)

Mr. Fox said:


> OK I've gotta ask, since you were in the Navy does that give you access to specialized artillery?



No.  Prior military service does not change the sort of firearm permitted to a citizen.

Some states do count the prior military service as meeting the their specific training requirements, so a service-member can skip a state-required training program.  Other states do not, however, and being qualified in that fashion in one state, or being issued a permit in a state that does accept that circumstance, doesn't mean it carries over to other states.

The guns in that pic?  Those aren't really specialized pieces, not by far.  All are semi-auto, pump, or some other non-automatic firearm.  And they're all very common civilian calibers.  Some (like the air-rifle), aren't even really firearms.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 28, 2017)

Jarren said:


> *Preps defibrillators*
> So, let's bring this thread back to life and back on topic.
> *Delivers shock*
> 
> ...


That poor Moisin needs to be put out of its misery. How in hell would you even cycle the bolt without dropping it from your shoulder? Whatever Bubba did that needs to be beat senseless with empty 7.62 X 54R ham cans and his tools taken away from him so he can't do that again.

I do like new/old firearms, too. My Garand was Milsurp, unissued. It also had enough cosmoline on it for three or four rifles. I scooped/scraped about a pound of grease off of it before I used up a tonne-load of Hoppes and two rolls of paper towels finishing the job.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 28, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> I've always been more of a traditionalist when it comes to firearms. This means that I tend to prefer things like GI style 1911s, AKs with nice wood furniture and standard iron sights, and AR-15s that have the classic look of fixed carry handle sights and basic polymer furniture. While I recognize and appreciate the benefits of modularity and a good red dot optic, newer configuration ARs just don't tickle my fancy the way my old Colt SP-1 did....
> 
> View attachment 18322
> 
> ...


The Air Force would have designated that an XM177E2 or an M16. What most of us called a Johnny Mattel. Slick side, no forward assist, no fence. I garnered three Oak Leaf clusters with a very similar piece back in the '70's. An honest piece that would make any "Nam Vet" proud to own it. Go get the GI cans full of 55 Gr. FMJ rounds and have at it.


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## Ramjet (May 8, 2017)

Cool thread!Here's my collection,minus the 14.5" ar colt clone..


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## Ramjet (May 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> I see you've got an S&W pistol of some kind there, what model/caliber is it?
> 
> Also, I see that you live in Canada. You should add an SKS to that collection. I wish us Yanks were still able to get a hold of a brand new SKS for less than $200.



You bet it's a S&W M&P9..
Had an SKS once already,didn't really tickle my fancy.Now if I could have a AK47 my life would be complete.


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## Arwing Ace (May 9, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> You bet it's a S&W M&P9..
> Had an SKS once already,didn't really tickle my fancy.Now if I could have a AK47 my life would be complete.



What??? What's not to like about an SKS? I feel your pain, but what about a Vz58? I know it's not quite an AK, but it's somewhat similar.


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## Ramjet (May 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> What??? What's not to like about an SKS? I feel your pain, but what about a Vz58? I know it's not quite an AK, but it's somewhat similar.



Or a Norinco type 81,if we ever get them approved up here.
The SKS is just not my cup of tea..Nothing wrong with the gun,mine was super reliable.


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## GreenZone (Jun 4, 2017)

"Stories from the range"

i have a good one

when i was going through school of infantry we were firing the Carl Gustav for the first time so your introductory shoot is just firing at these massive concrete cubes

any way here in Australia the Army can't harm animals and they know this so we have roo and Emu infestations so my mate fires the Carl set to airburst and just as the round hits the target the most both horrible and hilarious thing happens

a roo hiding in the grass jumps up in front of the block...

so the section commander is like "shhh..." and we go back to the barracks its about 4 hours now and the Company Sargent Major walks in and just screams "WHY THE F**** IS THERE ROO GUTS ALL OVER MY F****** RANGE!?"


a second one happened recently i'll keep this one short we were in a defensive position and were contacted by the Enemy  about 20 min in the PL commander gives fire control orders for the Machine Gun which is in the pit next to me we're waiting for him to open up and we just hear

...*BANG*...................."stoppage"... (meaning it jammed on the first round he was meant to fire 50)

there was a collective sigh from the position and you just hear this one voice whisper yell "oh my goooooood you retarded C***t..."


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## GreenZone (Jun 5, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> See: "things that happen only in Australia" lol.




go on you tell us one you must have something there's not likely to be a "warry" thread


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## GreenZone (Jun 5, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> You mean a range story or things that happen only in Australia? I got nothing, sorry.



range stories


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## Jarren (Jun 5, 2017)

I've got a range story that's fairly recent.

Earlier this spring (hell, it might have still technically been winter at the time) we had a massive cold snap. Like, temps went from being a comfortable 40f to -16f in the span of two days. Some friends and I had planned an outing to a local outdoor range but with the temperatures, we decided to say "fuck that noise" and hit an indoor range. On friend had just purchased his first firearm (Let's call him Bob) and he brought his fiance (Let's call her Calamity Jane) with him who was enthusiastic but had little to no gun experience. My and my other friend (Let's call him Dude) had been shooting for years by this point and had a good deal of experience under our belts, so we felt we were good chaperones. We get to the range, pay our fees, get the safety spiel and they let us in. We brought a good number of guns, but the only one that matters for this story is Dude's AR-15. So, we shoot for a bit and things are going well, despite the range being cramped and crowded. Calamity shoots a mag through the AR just fine and really enjoys it. The guy at the next station has a Kriss Vector with him and offers to let her shoot it. He has the thing set up all tacticool (holo sight, foregrip, aftermarket muzzle device, the works). Calamity, of course, says yes, and we don't see anything wrong with it. She loves the thing! Fawns over it for a little bit before handing it back and we get back to our shooting (we pay by the hour, after all). Well, she wants to shoot the AR again. No problem. Load up a mag for her and hand it over while Dude hands her the gun and runs her through loading it again. So, I'm still on the ground loading mags at this time and that's what will save me. Calamity Jane starts shooting and everything seems normal. Dude and Bob start chatting, and Dude takes his eyes off the range for a moment. I look up and notice that Calamity is walking shots up the target a bit. 
Maybe a bit too much.
Okay, off the target.
Over the target.
Shit!
(This all happened over the course of less than five seconds, so I could do little from my position, and it's probably a good thing I didn't stand up to intervene.)
Now, before I say what happened, let me say this. The she had just shot a gun with nice open, holographic optics. The AR only had carry handle iron sights. Apparently, she had forgotten that you can't just look at the front post without aligning it and expect to hit something. A shot eventually goes a bit too high and catches the cable holding the target downrange. The cable snaps. The thing's like a goddamn whip. All that tension is released and the thing whips back down the lane and past Calamity Jane's head, over mine, and finally slams into the observation glass that looks into the main store. Had I been standing at her left shoulder like I normally was, I would have lost teeth, or worse.

And that's the story of how we incurred $200 in range damages and why I will never take people to another indoor range as long as I live.


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## It'sBlitz (Jun 5, 2017)

I own a .17HMR for plinking, a .25-06 for hunting, and I eventually plan on getting a Swiss K-31 Battle rifle.


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## GreenZone (Jun 5, 2017)

Jarren said:


> I've got a range story that's fairly recent.
> 
> Earlier this spring (hell, it might have still technically been winter at the time) we had a massive cold snap. Like, temps went from being a comfortable 40f to -16f in the span of two days. Some friends and I had planned an outing to a local outdoor range but with the temperatures, we decided to say "fuck that noise" and hit an indoor range. On friend had just purchased his first firearm (Let's call him Bob) and he brought his fiance (Let's call her Calamity Jane) with him who was enthusiastic but had little to no gun experience. My and my other friend (Let's call him Dude) had been shooting for years by this point and had a good deal of experience under our belts, so we felt we were good chaperones. We get to the range, pay our fees, get the safety spiel and they let us in. We brought a good number of guns, but the only one that matters for this story is Dude's AR-15. So, we shoot for a bit and things are going well, despite the range being cramped and crowded. Calamity shoots a mag through the AR just fine and really enjoys it. The guy at the next station has a Kriss Vector with him and offers to let her shoot it. He has the thing set up all tacticool (holo sight, foregrip, aftermarket muzzle device, the works). Calamity, of course, says yes, and we don't see anything wrong with it. She loves the thing! Fawns over it for a little bit before handing it back and we get back to our shooting (we pay by the hour, after all). Well, she wants to shoot the AR again. No problem. Load up a mag for her and hand it over while Dude hands her the gun and runs her through loading it again. So, I'm still on the ground loading mags at this time and that's what will save me. Calamity Jane starts shooting and everything seems normal. Dude and Bob start chatting, and Dude takes his eyes off the range for a moment. I look up and notice that Calamity is walking shots up the target a bit.
> Maybe a bit too much.
> ...



hold my beer its time for the tale of a recruit that f***ed up so bad that an instructor was fired

so at Kapooka (basic training) this was this one Chinese guy who spoke almost no English no one knows how he was let in (we do have heavy diversity quotas though) his English was so bad that he was talking while an instructor was talking and was told 

"listen you little C*** do you want to take the class!? do you think you can do a better f****** job!?"

"yes"

"...w-what?" 

so we're doing our first famil shoot on the F88 SA2 and Chinese guy walks up to the mound now this isn't a relaxed environment we're yelled at constantly and told to quickly load shoot unload then move along (i think it was to give new shooters not enough time to be scared about shooting for the first time) 

so Chinese guy loads up and goes into a prone position he did something wrong (didn't see) and is told to stand up the instructor says something like "oi look at me!"

instead of turning his head Chinese dude turns his body... and aims a fully loaded AUG safety off (violation 1) finger on the trigger (safety violation 2) right at the instructor (safety violation 3)

what happened next was a spew of racial slurs and a punch to the face the instructor was later discharged i think and Chinese dude was back squadded (doing basic training from the start again)  and is rumored to have been discharged


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## Jarren (Jun 6, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> hold my beer its time for the tale of a recruit that f***ed up so bad that an instructor was fired
> 
> so at Kapooka (basic training) this was this one Chinese guy who spoke almost no English no one knows how he was let in (we do have heavy diversity quotas though) his English was so bad that he was talking while an instructor was talking and was told
> 
> ...


Some people are born stupid. Others perfect the art along the way.

Anywho, how do you like the AUG? I've been considering saving up for one, but they're rather expensive and I'd like to know what I'm getting into before dropping the cash on one. Have a lot of friends who just hate the bullpup design (for good and spurious reasons) and others who think it's a great idea. Me, I've always liked the design, but I hear horror stories about the triggers and ergonomics of the rifle. I've handled one, but never shot it, and the setup seems rather nice, but I'd like the opinion of someone with actual range time on it.


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## GreenZone (Jun 6, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Some people are born stupid. Others perfect the art along the way.
> 
> Anywho, how do you like the AUG? I've been considering saving up for one, but they're rather expensive and I'd like to know what I'm getting into before dropping the cash on one. Have a lot of friends who just hate the bullpup design (for good and spurious reasons) and others who think it's a great idea. Me, I've always liked the design, but I hear horror stories about the triggers and ergonomics of the rifle. I've handled one, but never shot it, and the setup seems rather nice, but I'd like the opinion of someone with actual range time on it.



actually i'll inbox you


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## GreenZone (Jun 6, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Hahaha oh shit! That's a good one man. I bet you walked away a bit shaken by that. XD
> 
> I think this is why you really have to get a beginner well acquainted with the basics before you do any live fire.
> 
> ...



to be perfectly honest i don't know why Civilians would want to own them they're just not a sporting rifle and they have a few flaws

but that's probably because you're used to an AR-15 platform to us the M4 was weird and when we did our qualifying shoot we had to use iron sights which made aiming a little easier i even got an under 150mil 15 round grouping at 400 meters

the other thing i like about the M4 is how you can do everything with it still pointing down range and in your shoulder the AUG you need to wave it round a bit


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## Arwing Ace (Jun 6, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> to be perfectly honest i don't know why Civilians would want to own them they're just not a sporting rifle and they have a few flaws



There are people here who have said the same thing about the AR-15. But the truth is, the AR is an extremely adaptable design which works well for many purposes, from hunting a variety of game to long range benchrest shooting to three gun matches. Its versatility is a big part of what has endeared it to American gun enthusiasts and made it so popular over here. They've also had a growing following in Canada in recent years as well. The AUG might have similar potential, although I can't see it ever becoming quite as popular in the US.



> but that's probably because you're used to an AR-15 platform to us the M4 was weird and when we did our qualifying shoot we had to use iron sights which made aiming a little easier i even got an under 150mil 15 round grouping at 400 meters. The other thing i like about the M4 is how you can do everything with it still pointing down range and in your shoulder the AUG you need to wave it round a bit



Really? Interesting, I would have thought that having an optic would actually make things easier compared to irons. That's how it is for most people. Yes, the ergonomics of the AR are very instinctive, and this does lend it well to rapid manipulation while still being able to keep it up and on target. I could probably get used to a bullpup design if I trained with one constantly over a period of time and built up the required muscle memory, but I find their ergonomics to be very weird and counter-intuitive. I'm thoroughly used to the the magazine being located forward of the trigger group, and that's how it's been with every rifle I've ever shot.


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## JinxiFox (Jun 6, 2017)

I'm from Texas, of course I own guns.


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## Zenoth (Jun 6, 2017)

In my humble opinion, firearms are one of the best multi-tools ever created !!  I mean.....they can be used to attain food, for protection , recreation.     Guns are fun and awesome, though I do know a few people IRL that should never be allowed around them xD


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jun 6, 2017)

Rykhoteth said:


> Did you snag a Carbine as well? I'll never understand why they're so expensive now, aside from historical value, since in my experience they're somewhat mediocre and without any practical use anymore. I've got a very nice restored Carbine that's a lot of fun, but .30 Carbine is hard to find and a bit overpriced. I still like my M14a1 over either it or my Garand


No, I didn't grab a MilSurp .30 Carbine when I had the chance. I had previously owned a beat-to-$h!t .30 Carbine when I was a kid. It was not a very good all-arounder, having less than proper punch for freezer game and five round magazines were not that plentiful. The M1 Garand is heavy but you know what? It's a real battle rifle that I've used to win at Camp Perry twice.

Another of my favorite main battle rifles is an FN-FAL. It is incredibly reliable and 7.62 Nato is easy to find ammunition. I have some hunting five round magazines for these.

My least favorite rifle? Any poor AK or AR that has been "Tacticool'd" with every crappy bolt-on piece of matte-black junk from the Midway catalog. Too much barf to get snagged on everything in sight. Give me an honest ol' slick side, no fence Johnny Mattel any day.


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## Zenoth (Jun 6, 2017)

The M1 Carbine is one of my favorites. My friend has one and was nice enough to let me send some rounds down range with it...........omg I kinda want one xD


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## GreenZone (Jun 7, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Really? Interesting, I would have thought that having an optic would actually make things easier compared to irons. That's how it is for most people. Yes, the ergonomics of the AR are very instinctive, and this does lend it well to rapid manipulation while still being able to keep it up and on target. I could probably get used to a bullpup design if I trained with one constantly over a period of time and built up the required muscle memory, but I find their ergonomics to be very weird and counter-intuitive. I'm thoroughly used to the the magazine being located forward of the trigger group, and that's how it's been with every rifle I've ever shot.



well that being said the best grouping i ever got with the AUG was a 20 round 62 mil grouping at 400 mtr but i did have a C79 scope but was that the rifle? was that the scope? was that my own skill? (probably the latter ive always been a freak with shooting at 400mtr the Army doesn't expect groupings they just expect you to hit the target) 

the AUG has a sight donut sight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  its not meant for "precision" its essentially there to show you where 300mtr is if some one fits within the circle then they're 300mtr away but after time you can make precise shots with it 


as for the Atrax yes i would get that its the export version of our new EF88 and the atrax are actually refurbed never used Military Rifles which were meant to be sent to france but at the last minute they decided to go with the HK416 leavnig Lighthow and THALES Australia all these Rifles that no one wanted so they just went "send them to America!" you guys are actually lucky Australian military small arms companies usually do not sell civilian versions


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## Arwing Ace (Jun 7, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> well that being said the best grouping i ever got with the AUG was a 20 round 62 mil grouping at 400 mtr but i did have a C79 scope but was that the rifle? was that the scope? was that my own skill? (probably the latter ive always been a freak with shooting at 400mtr the Army doesn't expect groupings they just expect you to hit the target)
> 
> the AUG has a sight donut sight
> 
> ...



Interesting, I never knew that about the Atrax. I thought they were being manufactured new, specifically for export to the US.

I wouldn't expect to have anything close to precise groups at 400 meters, or even 300 for that matter with a stock military trigger. And you can barely see a man-sized target at those ranges anyway under ideal conditions. What's the magnification of that optic? Is it fixed or variable? I'm sure it's only low power, since you really don't need more for a 5.56mm infantry rifle. 



> you guys are actually lucky Australian military small arms companies usually do not sell civilian versions



Why is that?


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## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Interesting, I never knew that about the Atrax. I thought they were being manufactured new, specifically for export to the US.
> 
> I wouldn't expect to have anything close to precise groups at 400 meters, or even 300 for that matter with a stock military trigger. And you can barely see a man-sized target at those ranges anyway under ideal conditions. What's the magnification of that optic? Is it fixed or variable? I'm sure it's only low power, since you really don't need more for a 5.56mm infantry rifle.
> 
> ...



its X3.4 its basically the predecessor to the ACOG so like with the ACOG you know how (depending on the model) the corsair shows the ranges with the C79 there's a dial that you just turn and it sets it to the range so if the sight is sighted to 200mtr but the bad guy is at 300 mtr you just turn the dial to "3" (its been a while since ive used one they were on their way out when i used it) i'm not claiming to be the best either there's plenty of guys better than me there's one guy i know who can get almost every round through the same hole using a browning high powered at 100mtr

when i was working with the Marines (cause our infantry are basically Marines its why we don't have a Marine corps) they did our tests and found them hard they reckon we focus a lot more on marksmanship skills than they do

as for why's that i don't know i think its just a kind of protest like "if Australians can't own them no one else can" we can own AR-15s SKS HK417s AK etc etc here but not AUGs


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## Ramjet (Jun 8, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> YES!!! Oh my god, yes! THIS! Glad to see I'm not the only one here who has an appreciation for the Right Arm of the Free World. But I'm just so disappointed that it's not more popular in the US and doesn't have much of a market here. I looked at one of the DSA SA-58s at a gun show once. I really liked it, but they're so _expensive!_ I'd really love to own an FAL, but I'm not sure how practical it would be for me to drop the cash for one. Aside from the cost for a DSA, mags and parts are not out there in great quantity like they used to be. It's a shame, but I'm still fascinated with the FAL and its history nonetheless.



That's another one we can't have...FAL is prohibited up here..


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## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> That's another one we can't have...FAL is prohibited up here..


what? in the states?

hell its one of the more popular sporting rifles here down under (not mine just the Australian SLR with synthetic furniture)





tends to happen with old service rifles though i know at some point every household had a 303 Enfield pretty much


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## Ramjet (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> what? in the states?
> 
> hell its one of the more popular sporting rifles here down under (not mine just the Australian SLR with synthetic furniture)
> 
> ...



Nope,Canada..
I thought all semi-autos centerfires in Australia were prohibited??

Our laws are so weird up here..
Example,an AR15 up here is Restricted.Meaning I can only shoot it at the range and go directly back home with it..On the other hand my Tavor which uses the same mags and is also a semi 5.56mm,is Non-Restricted.Meaning I can take it anywhere and shoot it anywhere it's legal to discharge firearms,like a buddy's farm or Crown land..


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## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Nope,Canada..
> I thought all semi-autos centerfires in Australia were prohibited??
> 
> Our laws are so weird up here..
> Example,an AR15 up here is Restricted.Meaning I can only shoot it at the range and go directly back home with it..On the other hand my Tavor which uses the same mags and is also a semi 5.56mm,is Non-Restricted.Meaning I can take it anywhere and shoot it anywhere it's legal to discharge firearms,like a buddy's farm or Crown land..




nah there's a lot of misconceptions about what we can and can't own here the main thing is "valid reason" if you have a valid reason to own what ever then you can get one for semi autos are mainly for pest control like boars cats and dogs but there is another way you can get one which is join a "military gun club" but i think your rifle needs to be stored at the range you can't keep it at home if you're member


but yeah that is weird here you can pretty much get a licence just for owning a large property to shoot on crown land is different i THINK you can shoot if you get permission i bow hunt in my home state and i just ring up the rangers and say "you mind if i bow hunt some pest species?" and they normally say go for it but i think its because its silent so you're not bothering anyone plus you're doing the councils "dirty work" (culling) in silence without yuppie campers and hippies noticing

deer are different we have some deer and elk species here that are extinct everywhere else in the world so its really regulated and you need a deer stalking permit there's no natual predators to control their population so they need to be hunted


this is from an Australian gun store
Cleaver Firearms Products
Cleaver Firearms Products
Cleaver Firearms Products
Cleaver Firearms Products


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## Ramjet (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> nah there's a lot of misconceptions about what we can and can't own here the main thing is "valid reason" if you have a valid reason to own what ever then you can get one for semi autos are mainly for pest control like boars cats and dogs but there is another way you can get one which is join a "military gun club" but i think your rifle needs to be stored at the range you can't keep it at home if you're member
> 
> 
> but yeah that is weird here you can pretty much get a licence just for owning a large property to shoot on crown land is different i THINK you can shoot if you get permission i bow hunt in my home state and i just ring up the rangers and say "you mind if i bow hunt some pest species?" and they normally say go for it
> ...



Huh,I guess that's the big difference..Up here I don't need to give a reason to own anything..
Once you have your P.A.L you can buy anything non-restricted/restricted.Restricted requires the firearm to be registered to you,so you usually have to wait 24/48hrs for the system to transfer the registration from the dealership/private seller to you..Non-Restricted you just walk out of the store after buying it,no registration required.


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## Ramjet (Jun 8, 2017)

Some guns are prohibited by name alone,such as the FAL and AK47...
Canada is the down syndrome of gun laws..

Keltec RFB .308 semi auto Non-Restricted in Canada






This is a Mitchell AK-22 .22lr (that's right a .22lr semi lol) Prohibited in Canada


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## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Huh,I guess that's the big difference..Up here I don't need to give a reason to own anything..
> Once you have your P.A.L you can buy anything non-restricted/restricted.Restricted requires the firearm to be registered to you,so you usually have to wait 24/48hrs for the system to transfer the registration from the dealership/private seller to you..Non-Restricted you just walk out of the store after buying it,no registration required.




yeah see Australia used to be like that guns were treated as "sporting equipment" you could just walk in buy one then walk out with it
after the port author massacre it changed a lot of things for one it showed that an armed population doesn't stop mass shootings because 3-4 of the victims were actually legitimate gun owners trying to kill the shooter but he got them first (and stole one of their cars and guns) and one store owner was lucky because he grabbed a shotgun but the shooter drove off before the store owner could load it

any way after that there were mass protests for regulations the government put it to a national vote and then the new laws came into place the government did not actually act alone like Americans and some more "red neck" Australians think at the time of the ban my uncle owned an M-16 AK-47 and a SPAS12 he along with some bolt actions and pistols

no one stormed his house and took them off him he was asked if he wants to apply for a licence and register them or hand them in for some cash he chose the latter because he hardly ever used them anymore

my grandfather was the same he kept his WW2 Enfield that he had when he did national service during the 50s and then handed everything else back

Edit: correction national service not reserves sorry


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## Ramjet (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> yeah see Australia used to be like that guns were treated as "sporting equipment" you could just walk in buy one then walk out with it
> after the port author massacre it changed a lot of things for one it showed that an armed population doesn't stop mass shootings because 3-4 of the victims were actually legitimate gun owners trying to kill the shooter but he got them first (and stole one of their cars and guns) and one store owner was lucky because he grabbed a shotgun but the shooter drove off before the store owner could load it
> 
> any way after that there were mass protests for regulations the government put it to a national vote and then the new laws came into place the government did not actually act alone like Americans and some more "red neck" Australians think at the time of the ban my uncle owned an M-16 AK-47 and a SPAS12 he along with some bolt actions and pistols
> ...




Thanks for the info..Didn't know a lot of that..
It's too bad nobody was able to smoke him before he ran off..
So your telling me a couple people were concealed carry at the scene?

Your at a big disadvantage by a surprise attack with someone with a semi-auto rifle when your only carrying a handgun..It happens to cops too.


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## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Thanks for the info..Didn't know a lot of that..
> It's too bad nobody was able to smoke him before he ran off..
> So your telling me a couple people were concealed carry at the scene?
> 
> Your at a big disadvantage by a surprise attack with someone with a semi-auto rifle when your only carrying a handgun..It happens to cops too.




nah its Australian culture people saw trouble on the news rolled up their sleeves and ran out there to help for some reason the vigilantes aren't mentioned on the Wikipedia entry (i suspect bias towards guns are good) but the cops lost track of him a couple of times members of the general public grabbed their own guns and went looking for him

the cops found their bodies with their guns near by as they were looking for him so that's how they knew 

it wasn't in one place he was just driving over half of Tasmania on a spree he was a high functioning Autistic so a lot of people still debate if the heavy restrictions were necessary or just a background check and banning people with mental health issues or learning disabilities


----------



## Ramjet (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> nah its Australian culture people saw trouble on the news rolled up their sleeves and ran out there to help for some reason the vigilantes aren't mentioned on the Wikipedia entry (i suspect bias towards guns are good) but the cops lost track of him a couple of times members of the general public grabbed their own guns and went looking for him
> 
> the cops found their bodies with their guns near by as they were looking for him so that's how they knew
> 
> it wasn't in one place he was just driving over half of Tasmania on a spree he was a high functioning Autistic so a lot of people still debate if the heavy restrictions were necessary or just a background check and banning people with mental health issues or learning disabilities



Wow that's crazy...Good on them for trying,but best to leave deadly force by civilians for self defence only..
A police force is trained to engage a deadly threat,most people aren't.


----------



## hunter-deer (Jun 8, 2017)

Have quite a selection and have worked on and fired almost any kind of firearm imaginable, have dealer and manufacture licenses, build custom "target" and collector firearms, also restore antique I raise deer and have a fondness and respect for them and do not work on firearms for hunting, I convert military firearms to legal status but do have a Class 3 license. This IS Texas so I do carry. My interest in firearms is mostly historic and an interest in the mechanical aspect, humans can find almost anything to kill each-other with, guns may be more convenient, but a truck crashed into a crowd can be as effective. I also find it comical that people from Europe and elsewhere are so quick to judge America as being gun happy lunatics, I mean the very people that invented modern warfare and a myriad of weapons and devices that kill and maim is hypocrisy. I enjoy the classic firearms, wood and metal, handcrafted and works of art, I don't need to fire them, just admire them.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

hunter-deer said:


> I raise deer and have a fondness and respect for them and do not work on firearms for hunting


lolwhat? you haven't read through the thread cause as i explained here in Australia Deer and Elk are not native and have no natural predators so they need to be hunted for the sake of them not becoming over populated and starving to death


hunter-deer said:


> I also find it comical that people from Europe and elsewhere are so quick to judge America as being gun happy lunatics,


that's not a very good attitude...


----------



## hunter-deer (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> lolwhat? you haven't read through the thread cause as i explained here in Australia Deer and Elk are not native and have no natural predators so they need to be hunted for the sake of them not becoming over populated and starving to death
> 
> that's not a very good attitude...[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

that's fine as long as you don't push your opinions onto others

i don't agree with America's gun policies but this thread aint about that we're chattin about shoot bangs... well comparing policies to a degree i guess


----------



## Jarren (Jun 8, 2017)

I'd love to see some rudimentary firearm education brought back to US schools. It would probably also cut back on the number of accidental deaths and do away with some of the fear of the things. That said, I can't see that becoming a thing again any time soon, given the current climate of US academia. 

Now, on an entirely different note, I think I've found a bit of a unicorn. One of my local gun stores just got in something I've never seen in person before, but have admired ever since I learned about them. Some dude put his all original parts, bayonet included, Belgian FN-49 up on consignment. I intend to purchase it this weekend if I can talk them down on the price a bit, but even as is I'll be getting a great deal. I'll post pics this weekend when I hopefully snag it. It'll probably be the best investment I've made.


----------



## hunter-deer (Jun 8, 2017)

Just fed my orphan fawn, she is learning to nurse and meeps when hungry, perhaps if people would take the time experience the


GreenZone said:


> that's fine as long as you don't push your opinions onto others
> 
> i don't agree with America's gun policies but this thread aint about that we're chattin about shoot bangs... well comparing policies to a degree i guess





GreenZone said:


> that's fine as long as you don't push your opinions onto others
> 
> i don't agree with America's gun policies but this thread aint about that we're chattin about shoot bangs... well comparing policies to a degree i guess



Push? You mean like forcing you to believe hat I do? Wouldn't it be best to at least entertain the opinions of others? How else can you make an intelligent decision regarding an opinion, do you just follow the crowd? If you think my comment is "forceful" then you'd probably buckle under real life pressure. Anyway, just fed the orphan fawn her breakfast, she's rapidly learning to nurse and now meeps when she hungry. The heat last year in Texas was so bad we lost 3 before we brought in 4 fans to protect them. Heat and fire ants (something else humans brought from somewhere else) can kill newborn fawns, coyotes, dogs and humans are all a threat. We actually had one idiot come on the property and kill some of our big bucks as if it was a game farm, the idiot didn't know we have video cameras that taped his crime.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Jarren said:


> I'd love to see some rudimentary firearm education brought back to US schools. It would probably also cut back on the number of accidental deaths and do away with some of the fear of the things. That said, I can't see that becoming a thing again any time soon, given the current climate of US academia.


That's not a bad idea actually even here in Australia shooting used to be part of Physical Education


Jarren said:


> Some dude put his all original parts, bayonet included, Belgian FN-49 up on consignment


That's a good find i forgot you guys buy guns as investments too how much are they asking? what about the AUG? you went quiet on that i would get the 49 over the aug they make good hunting rifles too



hunter-deer said:


> How else can you make an intelligent decision regarding an opinion, do you just follow the crowd? If you think my comment is "forceful" then you'd probably buckle under real life pressure.


Alright just calm down there bud


----------



## Jarren (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> what about the AUG? you went quiet on that


Sorry about that, forgot I hadn't responded. The AUG is still on the table, but it will be months before I can justify it if I snag the FN. It's going for $1250, I've talked them down to $1100. If I can get the shop owner to throw in some free ammo, I'm good. They seem to be going for around $1500 right now for most of the contract guns, but this is original, Belgian manufacture, so it should be a little more valuable. I should be ahead on equity the second my background check clears.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Sorry about that, forgot I hadn't responded. The AUG is still on the table, but it will be months before I can justify it if I snag the FN. It's going for $1250, I've talked them down to $1100. If I can get the shop owner to throw in some free ammo, I'm good. They seem to be going for around $1500 right now for most of the contract guns, but this is original, Belgian manufacture, so it should be a little more valuable. I should be ahead on equity the second my background check clears.



well what do you want it for? look pretty? target shooting? investment? hunting?

if i remember the 49's really accurate and it had primitive modern features like a rudimentary dust cover to me the price isn't too bad but guns in America are way cheaper than in Australia here a R700 XCR ii (what i want to get) is about $1500 USD and then you have like Remington 700 JAE which is around $3800 USD and a barrett 98B which is around $6000 USD


----------



## Jarren (Jun 8, 2017)

Well, the Barrett is actually basically the same price here, so you've got that going for you 

Anywho, in looking at it as a combination investment and occasional shooter. It's a nice piece of history and it's damned hard to find them outside of personal collections these days. Plus, I do kind of have a thing for battle rifles.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

yeah get it then but that $400 mark down doe

just make sure that all the serial numbers match and stamps are on it


----------



## Jarren (Jun 8, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> yeah get it then but that $400 mark down doe
> 
> just make sure that all the serial numbers match and stamps are on it


Oh, they are, I was in there yesterday. The only thing missing is the cleaning kit that stored in the stock, but I can live without it.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 8, 2017)

Jarren said:


> The only thing missing is the cleaning kit that stored in the stock, but I can live without it.



bad drills your entire platoon is now dead 



Spoiler



sorry bad army joke is bad



Spoiler



not sorry


----------



## Jarren (Jun 8, 2017)

So, I maaaaaaaay have caved in under the pressure of fearing that the gun would be bought by someone else (Maybe even someone from Massachusetts! *shudders*) so I managed to snag the cash today to make the purchase and sprint down to the shop after work. So, here it is, the newest addition to the hoard: 



Spoiler: Spoiler because of a big-ass picture









 It's now the jewel of my collection, far and away (with the exception of quality of finish, that award goes to my Mauser  ) . But the bore is absolutely pristine, all the numbers match, the action is smooth and all the wear and such is purely cosmetic. I can't wait to get out to the range and actually get some trigger time.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> I see. That's cool, I always find it interesting to see how doctrines and organization differs between our military and those of other countries. And yeah, I can understand your sentiments, I also think it's incredibly unfair that we can own Australian made firearms, but you guys can't.


i tend not to say this a lot since it triggers Americans but the Marines just flat out said we're way better than them there's some stuff we do during infantry training that only happens in BUDs and we're better at field craft HOWEVER the Marines self explanation made sense "you're a small Army you need to be better than everyone else if you just had training like us you wouldn't last long" the only thing is that the Marines fitness tests are a little hard (maybe not harder but different) they focus on strength we focus more on cardio


Shane McNair said:


> But I didn't know you could still own ARs, AKs, or SKSs? Interesting. I'm sure you still need more than just a Cat D license for that, though.


correct if you look at those links i provided Jarren half of them will say "AG permit required" that stand for Attorney General so he needs to approve of it so its usually granted to professional hunters or farmers with monolithic properties (we have some farms here the size of US states) the other way is to join a "military gun club" however i believe your rifle needs to kept at the club you can't take it home

its just an example to show we can own what ever we want the main thing in Australia is "Genuine Reason" so you can't say you want an AR-15 for shooting rabbits personally when i leave and move back home i want to get a Remington 700 XCR II in .308 i have no interest in semi autos really


Shane McNair said:


> No freakin' way, how is that even possible?! Best I can do with a pistol is probably 20-25 yards.


yeah he's a freak he's a pistol nut he has like 20 of them mostly semi autos for some reason he has no interest in the 1911 though to be deemed competent on the browning high power we need to get something like under 200mil grouping at 30 meters after using two mags i can't imagine getting every round through the same hole at 100mtrs  


Jarren said:


> So, I maaaaaaaay have caved in under the pressure of fearing that the gun would be bought by someone else (Maybe even someone from Massachusetts! *shudders*) so I managed to snag the cash today to make the purchase and sprint down to the shop after work. So, here it is, the newest addition to the hoard:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



great buy man its a bit weathered but i reckon you got a great deal


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jun 9, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i tend not to say this a lot since it triggers Americans but the Marines just flat out said we're way better than them there's some stuff we do during infantry training that only happens in BUDs and we're better at field craft HOWEVER the Marines self explanation made sense "you're a small Army you need to be better than everyone else if you just had training like us you wouldn't last long" the only thing is that the Marines fitness tests are a little hard (maybe not harder but different) they focus on strength we focus more on cardio



Makes sense. Quantity vs. quality and all that stuff. I'd guess that since the ADF's troop numbers are so much lower than ours, that frees up more resources to better develop each soldier?



> ...personally when i leave and move back home i want to get a Remington 700 XCR II in .308 i have no interest in semi autos really



I've thought about getting something like that. One thing my personal battery lacks is a good, centerfire bolt rifle with a good piece of glass and a short, light trigger for taking accurate shots at 400+  yards, or for being super accurate on the vitals of deer at 50-100 yds if/when I start hunting. I have an M1 Garand, but I'd be leery of taking that into the field. The trigger isn't terrible, but it's meh, and I'd never think of trying to scope it. It's also a little on the heavy side and ought-six is also quite a bit more expensive to shoot than .308.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> I'd guess that since the ADF's troop numbers are so much lower than ours, that frees up more resources to better develop each soldier?


from what im told yes our training (basic and what you guys call mos) is only like a week longer than the Marines and our reserves training is longer than your regular Army (i believe) we're also modular which was a clear advantage

now what i mean by that is you guys go in and told "you're a gunner, you're a marksmen" etc etc and you're that for your career we're everything your role within the section (squad) changes yearly or based on situation so i'm usually a Marksmen (shocker!) but ive had to fill in other roles like AT or grenadier plus for the first year the new guy gets the gunner and since when i first marched in we had what you guys a weapons squad/company i had to carry the FN Mag... not a fun experience



Shane McNair said:


> It's also a little on the heavy side and ought-six is also quite a bit more expensive to shoot than .308.


ive heard that's a good round for hunting but here in commonwealth countries our go to WW2 hunting rifle is the Enfield so that's 303

ive heard that Remington doesn't give a crap about customers though and that 1 out of 3 rifles fail my other option is the LA02 Crossover which is an Australian rifle made by Ligthow (same guys making Atrax) which might make more sense since its obviously going to be made for Australian conditions

that being said where i hunt back in my home state is like millions year old rain forest which looks like this in summer 



Spoiler










 and this in winter 



Spoiler










 so the all rounder R700 might be better for that i suspect the Ligthow is meant for majority of Australia which is dry and arid woodland/savanna type stuff


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jun 10, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> ive heard that Remington doesn't give a crap about customers though and that 1 out of 3 rifles fail my other option is the LA02 Crossover which is an Australian rifle made by Ligthow (same guys making Atrax) which might make more sense since its obviously going to be made for Australian conditions



Yeah, I'm not so sure I'd buy a _new _Remington firearm. I've heard that their quality control has slipped since they were bought out by Cerberus, about 10 years ago I think? Personally, assuming that I couldn't find a good used M700, I'd probably look at a rifle made by Savage, Ruger, Weatherby, or maybe even Howa. That LA02 sounds interesting. Sounds like it would be a good piece for around here, too. I'd think the topography of my state is similar to much of Australia - lots of wide open semi-arid plains, desertous brush country, and some forestland.



> that being said where i hunt back in my home state is like millions year old rain forest which looks like this in summer
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn, are you serious?!? It actually SNOWS in Oz??? Ffffffuuuuuu.........

I thought it was summer all year-round down there. That impression was even reinforced by a user I knew over on the main site who lives in Adelaide, who once mentioned "T-shirt and flip flop weather" year-round or some such. I didn't realize the climate was so....varied....lol.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 10, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Damn, are you serious?!? It actually SNOWS in Oz??? Ffffffuuuuuu.........
> 
> I thought it was summer all year-round down there. That impression was even reinforced by a user I knew over on the main site who lives in Adelaide, who once mentioned "T-shirt and flip flop weather" year-round or some such. I didn't realize the climate was so....varied....lol.



Adelaide is in the "outback" but it can get really cold there my home state is Victoria which is lush rainforest and snow in winter but yeah it snows here even in some cities 



Spoiler



























according to documents from the 1800s it used to snow in Melbourne every winter but without going into a long lecture it gets cold in Victoria because our southern winds come up from Antarctica the downside is insainly cold winters (ive had Canadians and Alaskans say it some how feels colder) but the pro is that during summer we get something called a cool change

it basically feels like gods turning on the AC during summer when the wind changes from a northerly to a southerly so the temp can go from 104 to 77 in a few seconds its the best thing and freaks tourists out to no end

the only real reason snow isn't more common here is because Australia is so ancient that its basically worn flat from eons of wind and rain so the moment you go a few hundred meters up suddenly snow Australia is also smack bang in the middle of a tectonic plate meaning no new mountains where as NZ is right on the edge of one so they're constantly being smashed against another plate which forms massive mountain ranges


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jun 12, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> Adelaide is in the "outback" but it can get really cold there my home state is Victoria which is lush rainforest and snow in winter but yeah it snows here even in some cities
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man, that's nuts. I think it's going to take my mind a while to absorb the fact that it actually snows in what I've always pictured as largely a hot desert/savannah country with some rainforest in the north.

Oh boy, this thread is starting to get a bit off topic, isn't it?


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 12, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Man, that's nuts. I think it's going to take my mind a while to absorb the fact that it actually snows in what I've always pictured as largely a hot desert/savannah country with some rainforest in the north.


nah bro Victoria is mostly rain forest  



Spoiler









[spoiler/] north is wet and tropical like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 south is wet and cold but can have hot summers so we still do have kinda savanna



but yeah its getting off topic


----------



## Simo (Jun 12, 2017)

This is the only gun I ever wanted!






What was Hasbro thinking????


----------



## Ramjet (Jun 12, 2017)

Simo said:


> This is the only gun I ever wanted!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lmao...Thankfully I was born with an Oozinator,no need to buy one.


----------



## Ramjet (Jun 12, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Yeah, I know, it's bullshit. One thing that I think really highlights the silliness of Canadian gun laws is the fact that, for example, you can't legally own AKs, but you can still own a Vz58 with a restricted license - two rifles that are both military designs of communist origin, semi auto, fire the same round, and are both fed by a detachable box magazine. Then there's the SKS, another commie design, also semi auto and fires the same round, but you don't even need a restricted license for that, just a standard PAL. I mean, wtf?!
> 
> I also find it rather alarming how much power the RCMP has to to just artibitrarily and unilaterally ban firearms, like they did with the Sig rifles and tried to do with the Vz58. It's also mind boggling how exceptions are made for some semi auto firearms (AR, Vz58, Tavor, SKS, etc.) but not others, such as the FN FAL and AK.
> 
> That said, if I was rich and could own any flavor of the FN FAL I wanted, I'd probably own a few types, and one of those would be a C1A1. I've always thought that the ability to top-load it with stripper clips or single rounds is a really cool and smart feature.



Your so right about the RCMP and their corrupt powers...You should have seen what happened in High River Alberta after the floods we had up here..RCMP we're breaking into homes with firearms and breaking into safes to secure them.

www.cbc.ca: RCMP watchdog raps Mounties over High River gun seizures during 2013 flood

As far as I'm concerned their the biggest criminal organized gang in Canada.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jun 12, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Your so right about the RCMP and their corrupt powers...You should have seen what happened in High River Alberta after the floods we had up here..RCMP we're breaking into homes with firearms and breaking into safes to secure them.
> 
> www.cbc.ca: RCMP watchdog raps Mounties over High River gun seizures during 2013 flood
> 
> As far as I'm concerned their the biggest criminal organized gang in Canada.



Yup, I know about the High River gun grab. I watched a documentary about it some time ago, and it pissed me off big-time. Consequently I have no respect for that organization. They remind of the despicable BATF down here.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 12, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Your so right about the RCMP and their corrupt powers...You should have seen what happened in High River Alberta after the floods we had up here..RCMP we're breaking into homes with firearms and breaking into safes to secure them.
> 
> www.cbc.ca: RCMP watchdog raps Mounties over High River gun seizures during 2013 flood
> 
> As far as I'm concerned their the biggest criminal organized gang in Canada.





Shane McNair said:


> Yup, I know about the High River gun grab. I watched a documentary about it some time ago, and it pissed me off big-time. Consequently I have no respect for that organization. They remind of the despicable BATF down here.



i don't get it did they give the guns back?


----------



## Ramjet (Jun 12, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i don't get it did they give the guns back?



They did,but that's not the point...Most of these guns were secured and stored in locked safes,and they broke into them..
It was above their power to do so.

It was their responsibility to secure the town and protect it from looting,not to confiscate property as they see fit.


----------



## GreenZone (Jun 12, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> It was their responsibility to secure the town and protect it from looting,not to confiscate property as they see fit.



oh i wasn't going to say anything but ive done that before during disaster relief we got the shitty job of body hunting and if we found unsecured firearms we had to unload them and take them with us and hand them over to police (unsecured firearms basically means you get a fine or they're taken off you) we only found about 4 and they all turned out to be stolen/illegal

like if we found a safe we didn't go "oh gee wiz lets take this bolted to concrete safe with us and or break into it"


----------



## Simo (Jun 12, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Lmao...Thankfully I was born with an Oozinator,no need to buy one.



Yep, thankfully I was born with one as well! But the range and power of this model are certainly impressive.


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 11, 2017)

Newest acquisition S&W M&P 2.0 9mm.
Improved trigger (so much better!),no lame beavertail,longer frame rails,and wicked aggressive grip texture.

Here's a couple pics with the new and the old design...
Sigh...Now if I can only get my old one to sell


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 11, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Newest acquisition S&W M&P 2.0 9mm.
> Improved trigger (so much better!),No lame beavertail,longer frame rails,and wicked aggressive grip texture.
> 
> Here's a couple pics with the new and the old design...
> Sigh now if I can only get my old one to sell..




reminds me of the HK USP 

fun fact our cops were getting the HK USP match until they found out the Combine in Half Life 2 use them so they decided to  just go with M&P 9


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 11, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> reminds me of the HK USP
> 
> fun fact our cops were getting the HK USP match until they found out the Combine in Half Life 2 use them so they decided to  just go with M&P 9




Lol I guess the M&P was a little less authoritarian.


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 11, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Lol I guess the M&P was a little less authoritarian.



probably 

it was at a time that there was some controversy (as in probably one triggered mother) already because the tallest building in Melbourne happens to look a little like the Citadel from city 17


----------



## Saylor (Jul 12, 2017)

Thinking of finally buying into the M4/M16/AR15 platform. I really just want something very versatile and accurate while being lightweight and easy to carry.


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 12, 2017)

Saylor said:


> Thinking of finally buying into the M4/M16/AR15 platform. I really just want something very versatile and accurate while being lightweight and easy to carry.




why? why do you need that


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 12, 2017)

Because there awesome!!

Wish they were non restricted here,or I'd still have one..


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 12, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Because there awesome!!
> 
> Wish they were non restricted here,or I'd still have one..



idk my personal view is civilian's have no reason to own military shit


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 12, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> idk my personal view is civilian's have no reason to own military shit



Booooooo NOT COOL,disqualified!!






There semi-auto function only,no fun switch..


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 12, 2017)

yeah but ive fired these 





at no point while fishing hunting or bow hunting have i gone "you know what i really need? an 84mm"


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 12, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> yeah but ive fired these
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I could easily rival that explosion with the amount of binary I have laying around.


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 12, 2017)

why doe?

WHY!?!?!?!?!?!

why am i the only one on this thread that just wants a 7mm or a 308


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 12, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> why doe?
> 
> WHY!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> why am i the only one on this thread that just wants a 7mm or a 308




Why?...Well it's legal here,and well fun as shit!


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 12, 2017)

incidentally while trying to find this





i also found this

(removed cause really not a good idea) 

that is a very VERY old photo


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 12, 2017)

Saylor said:


> Thinking of finally buying into the M4/M16/AR15 platform. I really just want something very versatile and accurate while being lightweight and easy to carry.



What brand are you thinking Saylor?


----------



## Saylor (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> What brand are you thinking Saylor?



Most likely, I'm going with a Colt brand carbine. I like the shorter barrel length and the ease of movement from carbines. Gonna also try saving up for eventually getting accessories on it such as an intermediate strobe flashlight, blue beam laser light, some sort of suppressor, and a Trijicon Acog on it. It's all expensive stuff. It'll be a work in progress, but once I get the rifle, I'll keep working little by little on it.


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Saylor said:


> Most likely, I'm going with a Colt brand carbine. I like the shorter barrel length and the ease of movement from carbines. Gonna also try saving up for eventually getting accessories on it such as an intermediate strobe flashlight, blue beam laser light, some sort of suppressor, and a Trijicon Acog on it. It's all expensive stuff. It'll be a work in progress, but once I get the rifle, I'll keep working little by little on it.



ok, ok i seriously need to know do you need this stuff for anything or are you just doing it cause its cool? 

i'm not picking on you i'm just interested to know cause American shooting culture is way different from other countries


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

Saylor said:


> Most likely, I'm going with a Colt brand carbine. I like the shorter barrel length and the ease of movement from carbines. Gonna also try saving up for eventually getting accessories on it such as an intermediate strobe flashlight, blue beam laser light, some sort of suppressor, and a Trijicon Acog on it. It's all expensive stuff. It'll be a work in progress, but once I get the rifle, I'll keep working little by little on it.




Can't go wrong with a colt
Sigh...Would love a suppressor..

Cultural differences @GreenZone...It's more to do about ease,low maintenance,and robustness of current tech that drives people to these types of arms...It's all still semi auto only,no difference than a Browning BAR,or a Ruger mini 14..
Just looks cooler


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Can't go wrong with a colt
> Sigh...Would love a suppressor..
> 
> Cultural differences @GreenZone...It's more to do about ease,low maintenance,and robustness of current tech that drives people to these types of arms...It's all still semi auto only,no difference than a Browning BAR,or a Ruger mini 14..
> Just looks cooler



yeah but practically its only useful for like professional pest control of wild dogs/cats maybe camels and roos

ACOGs aren't impractical though they do good make varmint scopes for 223 for things like rabbits which require snap aiming


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

@GreenZone Vortex strikefire is good too,t'is what I have on my Tavor-21 and it works really really well.

We have lots more space out here in North America for this shit...Plus our laws are more on freedom and not restricting people just solely for purpose...More for public safety,making sure guns don't go into the wrong hands sort of thing.

Think of it like,do you purposely need a 600hp sports car if you don't race professional?We value the State to serve us,not to own us..


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> We have lots more space out here in North America for this shit...


what? you know Australia has way more space than America right? there's some privately owned farms here the size of US states... 


Ramjet556 said:


> Plus our laws are more on freedom and not restricting people just solely for purpose...


if you're saying Australia isn't free you're wrong it actually ranks higher than America on the international freedom index for both personal freedoms and freedom of the press/economy


Ramjet556 said:


> More for public safety,making sure guns don't go into the wrong hands sort of thing.


well you're doing a poor job because 99% of illegal guns in Australia have come from America the rest are from NZ


Ramjet556 said:


> We value the State to serve us,not to own us..


please either reference this thread or the "net neutrality day of action" thread as to why that's a very wrong statement


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> what? you know Australia has way more space than America right? there's some privately owned farms here the size of US states...
> 
> if you're saying Australia isn't free you're wrong it actually ranks higher than America on the international freedom index for both personal freedoms and freedom of the press/economy
> 
> ...



I live in Canada..lol
Trust me we have more free space than you do...Second largest country by landmass and only 38 million people..

I'm all for net neutrality and so is Canada,we legislated for it.

I don't know if I could live in a country that classes a Slingshot as a prohibited weapon


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Trust me we have more free space than you do


Edit: i thought you said more free speech


Ramjet556 said:


> I'm all for net neutrality and so is Canada,we legislated for it.


not an Australian issue mate


Ramjet556 said:


> I don't know if I could live in a country that classes a Slingshot as a prohibited weapon


except they're not... www.outdoorswarehouse.com.au: Slingshots & Pellets: Outdoors Warehouse Australia

i got one of these for shits and gigs are couple years ago






laws here revolve around "valid reason" you can own a slingshot but if you're caught walking around with one and you don't have a valid reason you can get charged this is with anything from blades and spear guns to bows and firearms


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> you literally don't
> 
> not an Australian issue mate
> 
> ...




On that Website it specifically says:
"In some Australian states slingshots are classed as an illegal weapon"
I see you guys can't do crossbows either..

No hate my dude...I have family that lives in Melbourne and Sydney,it's a cultural difference for sure...
They don't get me either

Finally,dude seriously we have more free space then you do


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> On that Website it specifically says:
> "In some Australian states slingshots are classed as an illegal weapon"
> I see you guys can't do crossbows either..
> 
> ...



yeah i edited it

also what really bugs me about Canadians and Americans is "oh everything is illegal" no its not dude... crossbows are not illegal you need valid reasons for them and in the case of crossbows you just need to join a crossbow club i called one and they just said "you just need to show up for a couple of meets and pay $30 for a membership card"
www.ozhuntingandbows.com.au: PSE


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> yeah i edited it
> 
> also what really bugs me about Canadians and Americans is "oh everything is illegal" no its not dude... crossbows are not illegal you need valid reasons for them and in the case of crossbows you just need to join a crossbow club i called one and they just said "you just need to show up for a couple of meets and pay $30 for a membership card"
> www.ozhuntingandbows.com.au: PSE



Why though??
Here even in Canada I can just go buy one without a licence/government getting involved...
We don't have a rash of crossbow killings here...
Guns you need a Licence to own both pistol and rifle,only restricted firearms like handguns,shot barrelled rifles,and AR-15s are registered with the government..Restricteds can only be shot at a approved range,while rifles can be shot anywhere where legal to discharge (crown/private land).
No restrictions on ownership needing purposeful use or limiting number of firearms owned..
Our laws goes as such:
You get a extensive background check to make sure your not crazy,your monitored and if any violent charge against you warrants danger to the public,they pull your guns away..
Other then that you own what you want,and as much as you want...


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Here even in Canada I can just go buy one without a licence/government getting involved...
> We don't have a rash of crossbow killings here...



you don't need a licence the problem was that people were dying cause they weren't using them properly the requirement to join a crossbow club is just to say you've been taught how to use them safely with experienced users


Ramjet556 said:


> You get a extensive background check to make sure your not crazy,your monitored and if any violent charge against you warrants danger to the public,they pull your guns away..
> Other then that you own what you want,and as much as you want..


i don't know different attitudes? ours is pretty much the same as yours you just can't get a gun "just cause" or for self defense (to the Police it's implied that you have mental issues or you're involved in the underworld if you need that kind of weaponry for "self defence")  

i seriously don't get why this is an issue i agree with needing a valid reason to own a gun and its not that restrictive it can be

collector
professional shooter
sport shooting
hunting
professional shooting
work related
etc etc


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> you don't need a licence the problem was that people were dying cause they weren't using them properly the requirement to join a crossbow club is just to say you've been taught how to use them safely with experienced users
> 
> i don't know different attitudes? ours is pretty much the same as yours you just can't get a gun "just cause" or for self defense (to the Police it's implied that you have mental issues or you're involved in the underworld if you need that kind of weaponry for "self defence")
> 
> ...




That's the difference bud..We don't need a reason..We are aloud to just be,as long as we're not fucked
As far as seeing someone crazy or shady because they want a gun for self defence is just sad really.
Police can't be everywhere at once,and as far as I'm concerned their a deterrent and solver of crime,not a personal bodyguard for the entire public...


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> That's the difference bud..We don't need a reason..We are aloud to just be,as long as we're not fucked
> As far as seeing someone crazy or shady because they want a gun for self defence is just sad really.
> Police can't be everywhere at once,and as far as I'm concerned their a deterrent and solver of crime,not a personal bodyguard for the entire public...



except we have some of the lowest crime of any country sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......................................


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> except we have some of the lowest crime of any country sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......................................




We're rated about the same as far as crime per capita is concerned..

www.numbeo.com: Crime Comparison Between Australia And Canada. Safety Comparison.


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 13, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> We're rated about the same as far as crime per capita is concerned..
> 
> www.numbeo.com: Crime Comparison Between Australia And Canada. Safety Comparison.



so do you guys have a president or is it just which ever moose is strongest and has the biggest horns?


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> so do you guys have a president or is it just which ever moose is strongest and has the biggest horns?



Prime Minister...
Apparently nowadays qualifications is one with prettiest hair and best socks

www.nytimes.com: Justin Trudeau’s Sock Diplomacy


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 19, 2017)

Well it's confirmed,I still suck with a handgun..lol
On the bright side the new M&P shoots great..

10yrds,10 shots:


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 19, 2017)

like i'm not having a go at you but do you know how to hold a pistol? a lot of people actually don't 

also the fact it wasn't dead centre then you went "fuck it" and kept going triggers me


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 20, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> like i'm not having a go at you but do you know how to hold a pistol? a lot of people actually don't
> 
> also the fact it wasn't dead centre then you went "fuck it" and kept going triggers me



Lol it's probably due to the fact I haven't gone out with a Handgun since last year...I'm thinking I had my trigger finger over the blade instead of using the pad of your finger which you supposed to use.

I'll go out next week and redeem myself,pistol shooting never did come natural to me..


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jul 20, 2017)

I am dropping this right now, and I have in the past:  This thread is dedicated towards users in the fandom who want to talk about their firearms.

It is not meant to be derailed into a debate about firearm laws, ethics, or controversy.

Knock off the thread derailment.


----------



## GreenZone (Jul 20, 2017)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> I am dropping this right now, and I have in the past:  This thread is dedicated towards users in the fandom who want to talk about their firearms.
> 
> It is not meant to be derailed into a debate about firearm laws, ethics, or controversy.
> 
> Knock off the thread derailment.



who are you even talking to?


Ramjet556 said:


> Lol it's probably due to the fact I haven't gone out with a Handgun since last year...I'm thinking I had my trigger finger over the blade instead of using the pad of your finger which you supposed to use.
> 
> I'll go out next week and redeem myself,pistol shooting never did came natural to me..



if i remember the M&P is a kind of small ish pistol i think people with larger hands have a harder time aiming with them


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jul 20, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> who are you even talking to?



That would be you and Ramjet.  Bringing up stuff like net-neutrality and or licensing arguments is not the purpose of the thread.  Please keep it on topic.

That's also a final warning about it.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jul 25, 2017)

*Ahem*... Well, I see I showed up to this party late.... probably not such a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I don't believe I've ever even fired a S&W pistol, but as far as polymer-framed pistols go, I'm a firm believer in the gospel according to Gaston Glock. I whole-heartedly believe that the G19 is the closest thing to a perfect carry gun that currently exists. Not too big, not too small, perfectly balanced and proportioned with a very respectable 15+1 capacity in a small package. It's lightweight and comfortable to carry for hours at a time, yet there's little recoil, and quick, accurate follow-up shots are easily achievable. It's dead nuts reliable, tough as nails, and simple. Just draw, aim, and shoot. I personally like not having any external safeties on a carry piece. I'm so used to the 19 by now that almost every time a bring it up to eye-level, the sights are already aligned for me, and the trigger is pretty decent too. I always group pretty well with it.

But I also have a soft spot for the classics. I wouldn't mind having a nice Mk III Browning Hi-Power either.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Aug 1, 2017)

Strayer Voight Infinity .45


----------



## Junkerfox (Aug 1, 2017)

This is my favorite one. Sears and Roebuck Model 101 .20 gauge. Break action single barrel.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 1, 2017)

Junkerfox said:


> This is my favorite one. Sears and Roebuck Model 101 .20 gauge. Break action single barrel.
> View attachment 20538



good thing you changed the image cause it was really unnecessary and odd 

incidentally can anyone identify this weird round ive found back home it basically looks like a 303-308 but its red plastic and filled with bird shot it looks like some kind of novelty round where they've just some kind of weird 303-308 birdshot.... thing....


----------



## Junkerfox (Aug 1, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> good thing you changed the image cause it was really unnecessary and odd


Im just not comfortable putting pics of myself all over the web.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 1, 2017)

huh... i had to do some admin and i looked at my weapon qualifications

F88 Austeyr
EF88 Austeyr
F89 (SAW)
Maximi (SAW in 7.62)
Mag58 (FN mag)
HK417
Browning M2
Browning Hi power
USP
66mm LAW
84mm Carl Gustav
Remington 870
HK MP5
M4A1
F1 Grenade
Claymore


and i think that was it for some one who doesn't own any guns (anymore any way/yet) i get to play with a lot of toys

Edit: forgot 40mm GLA


----------



## Arwing Ace (Aug 3, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> huh... i had to do some admin and i looked at my weapon qualifications
> 
> F88 Austeyr
> EF88 Austeyr
> ...



And all the ammo is already paid for. I envy that so much...

You still thinking about getting a .308 bolt gun for yourself?


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 3, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> And all the ammo is already paid for. I envy that so much...
> 
> You still thinking about getting a .308 bolt gun for yourself?



i think we went through something like 10k worth of 5.56 during a day at the rage each according to a warrant officer 

but yeah i am once my current dramas with work and injuries are settled


----------



## Batty Krueger (Aug 3, 2017)

Shit forgot about my Supernova 12guage. I have a recoil reduction kit for when I want to go magnum. Holy fucksauce even with the kit those magnum rounds kick like a mule


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 3, 2017)

Batty Krueger said:


> Shit forgot about my Supernova 12guage. I have a recoil reduction kit for when I want to go magnum. Holy fucksauce even with the kit those magnum rounds kick like a mule


 get a pistol grip attachment my uncle had a spas 12 years ago before he had to sell it cause he moved to the states i was able to fire it comfortably at like 15 years old


----------



## Arwing Ace (Aug 4, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i think we went through something like 10k worth of 5.56 during a day at the rage each according to a warrant officer
> 
> but yeah i am once my current dramas with work and injuries are settled



10,000 rounds _each_?! Holy fuck...

I've mulled over getting a .308 bolt action at some point. I'm not too confident in the QC of new manufacture Remington guns, based on some of the things I've read, so a Savage M10/M110 looks like a probable choice for me.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 4, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> 10,000 rounds _each_?! Holy fuck...
> 
> I've mulled over getting a .308 bolt action at some point. I'm not too confident in the QC of new manufacture Remington guns, based on some of the things I've read, so a Savage M10/M110 looks like a probable choice for me.



The model 10 is hands down a way better platform then the 700,good choice!


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 4, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> 10,000 rounds _each_?! Holy fuck...
> 
> I've mulled over getting a .308 bolt action at some point. I'm not too confident in the QC of new manufacture Remington guns, based on some of the things I've read, so a Savage M10/M110 looks like a probable choice for me.



some one was telling me that on average around 1 in 3 Remingtons come with a factory fault of some kind but they're the most versatile and have the most 3rd party after market parts


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 4, 2017)

I don't like the fact that the 700's bolt handle is only copper brazed on...


They can end up doing this just by cycling the bolt normally.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 4, 2017)

i was thinking of Ligthow or a steyr scout but scouts are so fuckin expensive here 10k i think


----------



## Arwing Ace (Aug 7, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> some one was telling me that on average around 1 in 3 Remingtons come with a factory fault of some kind but they're the most versatile and have the most 3rd party after market parts



If you can find an older used 700 (made before Remington was bought out by Cerberus) that's in good condition and reasonably priced, I'd say go for it. It will likely be a good performer without issue. But I would pass on anything new.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Aug 7, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> I don't like the fact that the 700's bolt is only copper braised (spelling?) on...
> 
> 
> They can end up doing this just by cycling the bolt normally.



Wow.....

I don't even know what to say about this.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 7, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Wow.....
> 
> I don't even know what to say about this.



Yeah shitty way to attach a bolt handle to a bolt body imo...
Thing is you don't know if you have a lemon and do this in the first 10 shots,or after 10 years on shot # 5021..
Much prefer one piece bolt bodies,or like the savage 10 have the handle bolted from the rear of the bolt body itself.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 7, 2017)

to be fair i can see rust on that bolt


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 7, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> to be fair i can see rust on that bolt



That's the copper brazing residue your seeing...


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 7, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> That's the copper brazing residue your seeing...


Having knowledge of metallurgy and joining similar/dissimilar metals, that was a starved braze. A proper copper brazed joint should have a fillet of copper visible around the full perimeter of the join. If done properly, the joint should be close in strength to the metals being joined. Clearly, that join was starved and poorly prepared. Such a shame, too. To re-braze that operating handle to the bolt, it will most likely need machining afterward.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 7, 2017)

ur a copper brazing residue


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 8, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Having knowledge of metallurgy and joining similar/dissimilar metals, that was a starved braze. A proper copper brazed joint should have a fillet of copper visible around the full perimeter of the join. If done properly, the joint should be close in strength to the metals being joined. Clearly, that join was starved and poorly prepared. Such a shame, too. To re-braze that operating handle to the bolt, it will most likely need machining afterward.



I'm sure when done right it's never a problem,I never have any luck when gambling with Murphy though...Fucker always wins..


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 8, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> I'm sure when done right it's never a problem,I never have any luck when gambling with Murphy though...Fucker always wins..


Yeah, I'll agree. Murphy has some serious chops when it comes to firearms. Murph and I had some serious battles when I was building a ROMAK underfolder from a kit. I drilled the barrel to pin it in place, damned pin wouldn't go in. Closer inspection showed the hole was offset by just enough. Mind you, the receiver/barrel never left the drilling vice! That was the point where Murph decided the barrel should never turn in the block. Ever. Many bad words, thrown tools and adult beverages later, the pin was in without redrilling.

Murphy and I are on a first name basis.

that bolt repair should only be undertaken by someone that has done this before multiple times. The handle acts as an additional pseudo locking lug so the clearance in the action dictates where that bolt handle needs to be. Most gunsmiths that do this would use a fixture to hold things while the brazing was being done.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 8, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Yeah, I'll agree. Murphy has some serious chops when it comes to firearms. Murph and I had some serious battles when I was building a ROMAK underfolder from a kit. I drilled the barrel to pin it in place, damned pin wouldn't go in. Closer inspection showed the hole was offset by just enough. Mind you, the receiver/barrel never left the drilling vice! That was the point where Murph decided the barrel should never turn in the block. Ever. Many bad words, thrown tools and adult beverages later, the pin was in without redrilling.
> 
> Murphy and I are on a first name basis.
> 
> that bolt repair should only be undertaken by someone that has done this before multiple times. The handle acts as an additional pseudo locking lug so the clearance in the action dictates where that bolt handle needs to be. Most gunsmiths that do this would use a fixture to hold things while the brazing was being done.



Yup Murphy's a dick,no good intentioned deed goes unpunished

A lot of people have said screw it (literally) and just end up installing set screws through the bolt body..


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 8, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Yup Murphy's a dick,no good intentioned deed goes unpunished
> 
> A lot of people have said screw it (literally) and just end up installing set screws through the bolt body..
> 
> View attachment 20713


I have had that very same repair done to a Remington 700 in .243 because it had a starved braze. Still have it and it's been hunting several times after the repair.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 8, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I have had that very same repair done to a Remington 700 in .243 because it had a starved braze. Still have it and it's been hunting several times after the repair.



Good to hear!
The bolt is my only gripe with the 700,other then that it's a great rifle with good fundamentals..
I prefer the bolt throw and smoothness of the 700 over the savage 10.


----------



## zeroxwolfx (Aug 9, 2017)

Here's a couple in my old collection.

My PDW-esque AR pistol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Made with a neato pencil Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel.  This is my go-to home defense weapon (still waiting on a suppressor stamp...)  Loaded up with 53gr Hornady V-Max.  Honestly, this thing weights a hair under 5lbs (unloaded) and I was expecting it to recoil more, and be unpleasant, but... the difference between this and the lower AR, in terms of recoil are basically negligable, other than the flash (which is considerable) there's almost no difference.  I love the look, and feel of this thing! I don't have vast swaths of land I live on or anything... and self defense I'd be doing in or around my house would be within 50 yards, so this is A-okay for my uses.  Just need to get that dang supressor for it, and slap a red dot on it.

This just a regular ass lightweight AR, also made with a neato BA handson barrel and a 2.5x ACSS optic.  This is... the second AR I've built I think, It's quite light, and very enjoyable to shoot.





This is another AR, except this one has a coolio FN CHF barrel and shit! This is the first AR I've ever built, it's a bit heavier that I would have liked, but that being said it's still a dream to shoot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I sort of like building AR's a lot... it's so easy, cheap, and freaking FUN!  With how the market is these days... it's kind of hard to build a bad AR.  Not to mention I just like tinkering in general.

This is my old VEPR, that I paid way too much for.  Of course, I've converted it to take normal AK mags, and put a normal stock on it, and removed the pin and welded thread protector, and put a normal pistol grip on it.  This is a nice gun and everything, but truth be told I don't enjoy it much.  It's too heavy, and for where I live, I only have access to an indoor range, so no steel cased ammo... so ammo's kind of expensive for me.  Not to mention the recoil isn't too enjoyable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




This is a Ruger SR-1911 Night Watchman Comander, (nitrited finish+trijicon night sights) This is... the second 1911 I've ever had, and for the price I think this one is excellent, it's picky with magazines, but the sights are to die for, and the recoil is just fine.  Not my first choice for handguns, but it's pretty, and it's a pleasure to shoot!





This is my old Beretta 92FS, plain jane, except for steel parts upgrade, and elite hammer.  A great range gun.






I like your old War collectible guns.  But many of them are either too expensive, or I just wouldn't have a proper place to use them :/


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 9, 2017)

zeroxwolfx said:


> This is my go-to home defense weapon



i can't stand this American attitude 

"i need an AR-15 cause there's totally going to be 20 ninja's breaking into my home at some point!"

mate a .22 revolver is going to be deterrent enough for them to get out


----------



## zeroxwolfx (Aug 9, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i can't stand this American attitude
> 
> "i need an AR-15 cause there's totally going to be 20 ninja's breaking into my home at some point!"
> 
> mate a .22 revolver is going to be deterrent enough for them to get out



Probably wouldn't need a 30rnd magazine, a 20 round would probably do.  That being said, More often than not people break into houses in pairs, or in threes.  And as much as I practice, I can't garantee I'd be hitting people, in a stressful situation.  Also, if someone's breaking into your house... why NOT have more ammunition?  As far as the AR-15 goes.  Having an SBR or something like that is much easier to hit targets versus shooting with a pistol.  Anyone will tell you, shooting with a handgun is almost an art form in of itself.  You only have two points of contact, with a 5 (or less) inch barrel, the slightest bit of movement can make the difference between being an inch off, or two feet away from your point of aim.  You have at least four points of contact with that AR, and a 10.5" barrel, and an even longer sight radius, this means I'm much less likely to miss, and if I do, I have more rounds to sacrifice.  Also, the faster moving rounds are more likely to break apart in the walls due to velocity (plus the fact that they're polymer tipped) and do damage beyond that.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 9, 2017)

zeroxwolfx said:


> Here's a couple in my old collection.
> 
> My PDW-esque AR pistol
> 
> ...



Beautiful collection Bud!!!

@GreenZone You have to live and let live bud...There's more people here other then cucky Australians with smooth bore .22's
We in NA like our bad guys deader then dead

Seriously though it's a personal choice we are able to choose here if one so desires an AR15 and weapons like it...That's something your just going to have to accept and get over.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 9, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Beautiful collection Bud!!!
> 
> @GreenZone You have to live and let live bud...There's more people here other then cucky Australians with smooth bore .22's
> We in NA like our bad guys deader then dead
> ...



Watch the language.  It's fine to make quips, but making insults is not acceptable.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 9, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Seriously though it's a personal choice we are able to choose here if one so desires an AR15 and weapons like it...That's something your just going to have to accept and get over.



i don't care if they have an AR i have a couple mates with ARs but they self admit they only have it cause its cool the concept of having an AR15 for self defence is paranoid to me 


SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Watch the language.  It's fine to make quips, but making insults is not acceptable.


it's fine i'm not going to cry over it


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 9, 2017)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Watch the language.  It's fine to make quips, but making insults is not acceptable.





GreenZone said:


> i don't care if they have an AR i have a couple mates with ARs but they self admit they only have it cause its cool the concept of having an AR15 for self defence is paranoid to me
> 
> it's fine i'm not going to cry over it



I knew you could take it,you know I'm just poking fun

Oh I totally get your point,doesn't mean I have to accept it to change my own thoughts on it.

Live and let live


----------



## zeroxwolfx (Aug 10, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i don't care if they have an AR i have a couple mates with ARs but they self admit they only have it cause its cool the concept of having an AR15 for self defence is paranoid to me
> 
> it's fine i'm not going to cry over it



Everyone has there own ideas and that's okay.  That being said I certainly don't PLAN to use it in self defense, statistically, where I live, it probably won't happen.  That being said, I only live about half a mile from a fire department... I'm still gonna have a fire-extinguisher, and also wear my setbelt :>


----------



## zeroxwolfx (Aug 10, 2017)

zeroxwolfx said:


> Everyone has there own ideas and that's okay.  That being said I certainly don't PLAN to use it in self defense, statistically, where I live, it probably won't happen.  That being said, I only live about half a mile from a fire department... I'm still gonna have a fire-extinguisher, and also wear my setbelt :>



I would certainly not want to have to use a gun, or ANYTHING to defend myself... I'd much rather I never run into any situation like that.... but if a situation like that is going to run into me, I want all the gun I can handle.  Number one rule in combat, always bring air support, if you don't have air support, bring artillery, if you don't have artillery, bring a tank, if you don't have a tank, bring a technical, if you don't have a technical, bring an HMG, if you don't have an HMG, bring grenades, if you don't have grenades, bring your rifles... and your buddies, with their rifles.  And if you don't have your rifle... THEN bring your handgun.

I go under the principle of protecting myself with as much force as reasonable.  If someone breaks into my house, I don't know if they just want a free TV and don't want to hurt anyone, or if they're on meth and are looking for stuff to sell to get their fix no matter the cost, or if they're just psychotic and don't care if they kill anyone, the only thing I know is that someone has come into my house to do me harm, and as far as I'm concerned, if you're coming in here to do my body harm, you've given up your rights for any protection, and I'm going to throw everything I have at you.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Aug 10, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i don't care if they have an AR i have a couple mates with ARs but they self admit they only have it cause its cool the concept of having an AR15 for self defence is paranoid to me



You want the most effective tool for the job. A double barrel shotgun _could _suffice, but do you really want to stake your life on only two shots? Especially when you don't know how many bad guys there are, how well armed they are, what psychological state they're in, how determined they are, or how well you can make those two shots count under stress? Greater magazine capacity and ability to get shots on target quickly in a life or death confrontation can only be a good thing, and that's what an Ar-15 affords you.

The 7th Cavalry troopers at the Battle of the Little Big Horn found out the hard way how badly limited ammo capacity and slow reload-time hinders your ability to defend yourself against an attacking, numerically superior force. They were armed primarily with single-shot 1873 Springfield trapdoor carbines that were slow to reload. Many of the Indians had repeating rifles. If the 7th Cavalry had been armed with repeating rifles, I believe they would have fared much better. I also believe that if they'd had a few Gatling guns in tow that day, they could have potentially fended off the attack with limited casualties. The same basic principle might apply to a civilian defending him/herself in the home, just on a much smaller scale.

More magazine capacity and a quick-operating action like semi-auto gives you a larger margin for error with regard to shot placement, and better ability to deal with multiple threats quickly and stop them before they can get to you. And it also very often takes multiple shots to stop a bad guy, especially if he's hopped up on drugs.

That said, a pump-action 12 ga. shotgun loaded with #4 buckshot is my preferred home defense tool. But I have also kept an AR ready for that role as well.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Aug 14, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> get a pistol grip attachment my uncle had a spas 12 years ago before he had to sell it cause he moved to the states i was able to fire it comfortably at like 15 years old


Oh its got one. Also a recoil reduction kit for magnum rounds -.^


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## Yakamaru (Aug 14, 2017)

The only "gun" I've ever really shot with, is a small calibre rifle we used during grade school in 9th and 10th grade, for competitions, shooting at targets. Could shoot someone in the leg and it'd barely do any damage. Was fun, though. Two hours every Thursday. Our teacher always gave the one with the best score an icecream. Sometimes a bag of chips. Soda were always included in the prize. We were 4: Two girls and two guys. Was a LOT of fun. And I didn't have to do fucking French or German.

Quite frankly, I've always wanted to shoot with like a Kalashnikov, an M4 or even a 1911 or a 9mm Glock. Or any other weapon, really. 

The Barret M82 looks AWESOME. Feel that recoil in every cell in your body. Gives me shivers down my spine..


----------



## zeroxwolfx (Aug 14, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> The only "gun" I've ever really shot with, is a small calibre rifle we used during grade school in 9th and 10th grade, for competitions, shooting at targets. Could shoot someone in the leg and it'd barely do any damage. Was fun, though. Two hours every Thursday. Our teacher always gave the one with the best score an icecream. Sometimes a bag of chips. Soda were always included in the prize. We were 4: Two girls and two guys. Was a LOT of fun. And I didn't have to do fucking French or German.
> 
> Quite frankly, I've always wanted to shoot with like a Kalashnikov, an M4 or even a 1911 or a 9mm Glock. Or any other weapon, really.
> 
> The Barret M82 looks AWESOME. Feel that recoil in every cell in your body. Gives me shivers down my spine..



True story, a lot of the recoil of the Barrett M82 is about as shooting a magnum slug out of a 12ga because of the short recoil operated system absorbs a lot of the punch, also the gun is around 30lbs.  But with that being said... probably not a good gun to start with...


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 14, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Quite frankly, I've always wanted to shoot with like a Kalashnikov, an M4 or even a 1911 or a 9mm Glock. Or any other weapon, really.



obviously i'm going to be de sensitised to guns now but probably the most fun thing to shoot in my opinion is the FN MAG


zeroxwolfx said:


> True story, a lot of the recoil of the Barrett M82 is about as shooting a magnum slug out of a 12ga because of the short recoil operated system absorbs a lot of the punch, also the gun is around 30lbs. But with that being said... probably not a good gun to start with



not necessarily at 13.5 kg unloaded 14kg loaded you're looking at minimal recoil when fired from a prone position it shouldn't bounce around too much plus the M82 has a lot of recoil dampening

but then again  ive uploaded this for you guys to look at





so if you watch the splash your groupings are basically over 100s of mtr its a very hard weapon to control these were recruits and the M2 browning is HEAVY you're not picking that shit up


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 15, 2017)

@GreenZone You want recoil? Try firing a McMillan Signature .50 BMG bolt action rifle without the blast deflector. Just as well let a mule kick you. You can ask my brother about that. I had it rebarreled to .416 Barrett just to get around that idiot Kalifornistan law about .50 BMG.

BTW, I have fired and qualified on the "Ma Deuce".Once you get the feel of it, it's highly controllable. And, you better be able to carry it by yourself because your partner has to carry the tripod and maybe a box or two of ammo. Start barrel-up, bend your knees, rest the barrel on your dominant shoulder, grip the receiver as low as possible, stand. Pull the receiver to you, it will balance with the forward edge of the receiver on top of your shoulder. Now boogie to your next emplacement!


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## GreenZone (Aug 15, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> You can ask my brother about that. I had it rebarreled to .414 Barrett just to get around that idiot Kalifornistan law about .50 BMG.


funny thing is when i went to NZ they casually had those for sale like it was no big deal 


Kellan Meig'h said:


> And, you better be able to carry it by yourself because your partner has to carry the tripod and maybe a box or two of ammo. Start barrel-up, bend your knees, rest the barrel on your dominant shoulder, grip the receiver as low as possible, stand. Pull the receiver to you, it will balance with the forward edge of the receiver on top of your shoulder. Now boogie to your next emplacement!


OHS my boi they don't get you to carry it around anymore 

they will however make you carry a Carl Gustav rounds for it claymour rifle AND a LAW for shits and gigles


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 15, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> funny thing is when i went to NZ they casually had those for sale like it was no big deal
> 
> OHS my boi they don't get you to carry it around anymore
> 
> they will however make you carry a Carl Gustav rounds for it claymour rifle AND a LAW for shits and gigles


You won't see anything .50 BMG for sale in Kalifornistan right now. I have seen Barrett M82A1 in .416 for sale recently but only because it was a .416 Barrett.

Gotta remember; my military was not today's military. We had three females in our SP squadron. Only one could lift the Ma Deuce and I think she hurt herself when she did so. Back last century, right after 'Nam, women were in nursing, doctor. or admin positions for the most part. A female on the flightline was an oddity, not the norm.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 15, 2017)

JamesOtters said:


> Ah Americana. Sitting on my own personal island (The UK) and watching the world slowly descend into chaos across the ocean. How fun!
> 
> Watching the world burn,
> JamesOtters
> *A small otter is too scared to peek out.*



The topic of the thread is for furries to discuss firearms, not taunt or provoke argument about firearms.

If you do not have subject matter to contribute that is relevant to the topic, please do not attempt to derail the thread.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 15, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i can't stand this American attitude
> 
> "i need an AR-15 cause there's totally going to be 20 ninja's breaking into my home at some point!"
> 
> _*mate a .22 revolver is going to be deterrent enough for them to get out*_


I feel like I've had this discussion before. Here in 'Murica, we have this rather dangerous wildlife called "Speed freak," "Crack Head," "Meth Head," etc. Typically a chronically under/unemployed individual that is addicted to narcotics, be it prescription or non-prescription. Trust me, a .22 revolver means jack to him/her if they are in your house to grab what can be fenced to pay for their addiction. Just as well unload it and us it as a club. A Meth Head will soak up all the rounds from a .22 rimfire and probably do you a great deal of harm before he expires because he feels no pain from the drugs.

The very minimum I would recommend would be either a 9mm or a .38 Special +P loading. Double Action wheelguns are my preference. No safety to have to disengage, actually as fast to reload as a semi-auto if you have speedloaders. My personal preference is .44 Magnum, 4" barrel. Loaded with frangible rounds, it won't endanger your neighbors while doing what you need it to do. I have personal experience with this. Even if you don't actually wound your B&E suspect, the muzzle blast and report will sober them up in a hurry.

I guess in some parts of the world, there are no drug addicts and a brolley behind the front door is adequate protection. Not here, my friend. Not here.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 15, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> We had three females in our SP squadron.


POG Squadron*


Kellan Meig'h said:


> A female on the flightline was an oddity, not the norm.


it still is an oddity i don't know what the numbers here down under are as of writing this but to the best of my knowledge out of the 3000+ who have applied since the role opened up there's only 3 serving in infantry two reservists and 1 regular and a handful in cavalry mostly reservists

when i went through school of infantry we had 8 females with us and none of them passed most of them failed during the initial first few days citing fitness levels and general mental toughness i guess you can call it 

the thing with Australia is we may be pushing for more females and even locking positions to males to get female numbers up but one thing we'll refuse to do is lower standards and currently that's what's keeping them out

i wont elaborate further but during an exercise we could hear a female dismounted cav trooper crying over the SPR because she found patrolling too hard and they didn't even have packs or anything they only had maybe 30kg-40kg on them it wasn't only embarrassing for herself but for us as an Army cause the USMC were intermingled with us


Kellan Meig'h said:


> I feel like I've had this discussion before. Here in 'Murica,


this is a fair point but i was talking more any firearm would deter a home invader particularly not drugged up but my point still stands you don't need an AR for home invasion you're right you just need a revolver that was my point even if its a .38 hollow point double actions do have safety's by the way it depends on the model single action like the Colt 45 SAA (which i got for my 12 birthday) don't for obvious reasons


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## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 16, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> POG Squadron*
> 
> it still is an oddity i don't know what the numbers here down under are as of writing this but to the best of my knowledge out of the 3000+ who have applied since the role opened up there's only 3 serving in infantry two reservists and 1 regular and a handful in cavalry mostly reservists
> 
> ...



I'm not sure I've ever encountered a DA wheelgun with a safety. Care to name one? I'm not aware of a model being produced at the moment. I know some have a ditzy hammer lock but that's for storage. No bonehead would keep a defense weapon locked when a tense situation would make you make multiple mistakes, possibly leading to a bad ending for the gun owner.

As far as AR pattern rifles/carbines being terrible home protection pieces, I will agree. Inside your own home, there's just not enough room to maneuver a rifle effectively. I never cared for one as an entry weapon when I was in the military and had to do entry drills. Even a GAU-5/A (USAF designation Gun, Aircraft, Automatic, US Army version was called the XM177) would bump walls and whatnot with the stock collapsed all the way. Just don't say long arms are not worth dealing with too loudly around my wife. She prefers her Saiga 12 sporting variant shotgun for home patrol duty, stoked with Remington #4 Upland loads. I'm not arguing with her on that matter. Either it's that Saiga or her Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with the 18-1/2" defender barrel mounted.


----------



## GreenZone (Aug 16, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I'm not sure I've ever encountered a DA wheelgun with a safety. Care to name one?



i can't remember the name but they're the new new new things like the MP-rex and similar my mate had one the safety looked like it was a cylinder release


----------



## Austin Silver (Sep 1, 2017)

I've got an 1860 colt army. I do a lot of stuff with that, hardly fire it though.  No place by me to do so.  My dad owns several rifles....well...he doesn't know about them, they were my grandpas and he died...soooooooo...
I also enjoy blowing stuff up.  Since I'm not licensed to buy high-power explosives, I make them myself.  Educational purposes only


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 1, 2017)

Austin Silver said:


> I've got an 1860 colt army. I do a lot of stuff with that, hardly fire it though.  No place by me to do so.  My dad owns several rifles....well...he doesn't know about them, they were my grandpas and he died...soooooooo...
> I also enjoy blowing stuff up.  Since I'm not licensed to buy high-power explosives, I make them myself.  Educational purposes only



can you not...


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## Austin Silver (Sep 1, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> can you not...


Can I not what?


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 1, 2017)

Austin Silver said:


> Can I not what?



admit to illegal shit


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## Austin Silver (Sep 1, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> admit to illegal shit


It's not illegal


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Sep 1, 2017)

Austin Silver said:


> I've got an 1860 colt army. I do a lot of stuff with that, hardly fire it though.  No place by me to do so.  My dad owns several rifles....well...he doesn't know about them, they were my grandpas and he died...soooooooo...
> I also enjoy blowing stuff up.  Since I'm not licensed to buy high-power explosives, I make them myself.  Educational purposes only



I don't know to what extent you're implying anything, but I won't automatically assume the worst.  There's nothing illegal about messing around with stuff in the garage, otherwise there'd be a heck of a lot more people getting arrested for stuff on youtube (although that happens enough as is).  I know a common example is that lots of people make their own binary targets rather than pay commercial prices for them.

I'm not going to make the leap that you're admitting to doing stuff that actively violates the law, but keep your wording about such things in mind.


----------



## Austin Silver (Sep 1, 2017)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> I don't know to what extent you're implying anything, but I won't automatically assume the worst.  There's nothing illegal about messing around with stuff in the garage, otherwise there'd be a heck of a lot more people getting arrested for stuff on youtube (although that happens enough as is).  I know a common example is that lots of people make their own binary targets rather than pay commercial prices for them.
> 
> I'm not going to make the leap that you're admitting to doing stuff that actively violates the law, but keep your wording about such things in mind.


Sure thing.  No intention to offend anyone here.


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## Junkerfox (Sep 1, 2017)

Austin Silver said:


> I also enjoy blowing stuff up.  Since I'm not licensed to buy high-power explosives, I make them myself.  Educational purposes only


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## Austin Silver (Sep 1, 2017)

Junkerfox said:


> View attachment 21319


Lol.
I don't see it as being illegal to experiment scientifically, or to celebrate my country's freedom from taxated tea.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Sep 1, 2017)

Austin Silver said:


> Sure thing.  No intention to offend anyone here.



It's not a matter of offending anyone.  I can't quite understand how you would look at it that way.

It's a matter of us not permitting people to discuss or encourage illegal activity on the forums or on the main site, because it's _illegal._



Austin Silver said:


> Lol.
> I don't see it as being illegal to experiment scientifically, or to celebrate my country's freedom from taxated tea.



It's a problem if it goes into the area of illegality.

I'm just going to make a final call on the subject:  Drop it.


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## Austin Silver (Sep 1, 2017)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> It's not a matter of offending anyone.  I can't quite understand how you would look at it that way.
> 
> It's a matter of us not permitting people to discuss or encourage illegal activity on the forums or on the main site, because it's _illegal._
> 
> ...


Okay, that's cool with me.


----------



## Jarren (Sep 6, 2017)

Hey everyone, I finally got around to prying the buttplate off of my K-11 to see if it still had an intact troop tag. Lo and behold, it does!
This is why I love military surplus, nearly every gun has history.


Spoiler: Large Images Contained Herein















Stephen Albert the Second, what stories do you have? ( Probably not too terribly many, as Switzerland didn't fight in any of the 20th century wars  )


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Sep 6, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Hey everyone, I finally got around to prying the buttplate off of my K-11 to see if it still had an intact troop tag. Lo and behold, it does!
> This is why I love military surplus, nearly every gun has history.
> 
> 
> ...



That's a damn cool find!


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## GreenZone (Sep 7, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Hey everyone, I finally got around to prying the buttplate off of my K-11 to see if it still had an intact troop tag. Lo and behold, it does!
> This is why I love military surplus, nearly every gun has history.
> 
> 
> ...



that looks like an auction tag not a Dobi number


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> They have a Browning Hi-Power there that caught my eye.


mah furry




 (i took that cause my grandfather asked about what pistols we used)


Shane McNair said:


> I swear, it must have taken a 9 or 10


its 8.4 pound i think people complain about the creep and pull from the AUG as well what you kind of need to take into account is that these are firearms made specifically to kill people not tin cans or a deer the triggers and general functions tend to be very heavy and robust you may not like it but in a fire fight its a plus i can't explain how though like in the military you wouldn't want hair line triggers and shit


Shane McNair said:


> This gun also experienced quite a few misfeeds, so I had to clear jams often. This could have been due to the gun not having been cleaned,


it might be incorrect oiling these things don't actually jam all that much but you need to ONLY put drops of oil in very specific places too much it will jam up too little it will cease up causing stoppages


Shane McNair said:


> These last two groups were very difficult


you weren't in a proper stance next time hold it like you normally would aim somewhere close your eyes open your palms breath in and out close your palms again then open your eyes if you're not aiming where you originally were you don't have a correct stance


Shane McNair said:


> A retired cop and firearms instructor I know once told me that in the "real world", rifle fights take place at pistol fighting distances,


false


Shane McNair said:


> and pistol fights take place at fist fighting distances.


false its not that pistol fights take place at fist fighting distances its that you can't really hit anything under 50 mtr like if some one was aiming a pistol at me and they were 50 meters away i'd probably walk off


Shane McNair said:


> and fired somewhat rapidly at about one round per second (the range rules don't allow _really_ rapid fire). I actually did better here than I thought I would, and got a roughly fist-sized group.


that actually is known as rapid fire the reason you did better is because of the basic marksmanship principles

1. The position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.
2. The weapon must point naturally at the target without undue physical effort.
3. Sight alignment and sight picture must be correct.
4.The shot must be released and followed through without any undue physical disturbance to the position.

so what's that saying is if you have the correct position you can go "bang bang bang bang bang bang" and all the rounds will hit the same spot

as for my groupings i only shoot at work so i don't have much documentation about it i can look though

we use an automatic system so the target has sensors and your shots are displayed on a computer screen they aren't often written down anymore outside of a training environment like basic training or school of infantry


----------



## Arwing Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> its 8.4 pound i think people complain about the creep and pull from the AUG as well what you kind of need to take into account is that these are firearms made specifically to kill people not tin cans or a deer the triggers and general functions tend to be very heavy and robust you may not like it but in a fire fight its a plus i can't explain how though like in the military you wouldn't want hair line triggers and shit



I shoot very well with Glocks, and those don't exactly have hair triggers either. I'd say the majority of police officers and sheriffs deputies in the US these days are carrying them as their service weapon, and they definitely can't have weapons with "hair triggers" for safety reasons. But a standard Glock trigger is nowhere near as heavy as a Hi-Power trigger. I think it's about a four or five pound pull.



> it might be incorrect oiling these things don't actually jam all that much but you need to ONLY put drops of oil in very specific places too much it will jam up too little it will cease up causing stoppages



Could be. The rental guns at this range don't get a lot of cleaning or oiling. Several years ago I actually had one of the Argentine-made copies of the Hi-Power, and I also owned a 1911 too. The way I lubed them was I would lightly oil the barrel and inside of the slide, and a drop on each of the rails.



> you weren't in a proper stance next time hold it like you normally would aim somewhere close your eyes open your palms breath in and out close your palms again then open your eyes if you're not aiming where you originally were you don't have a correct stance



Thanks for the good tip. It's always helpful to refresh yourself on fundamentals like that, but I'm sure my stance was fine. My muscle memory with regard to stance is pretty good. Getting into a proper shooting position isn't something I really think about much, it just sort of happens. I usually like to use the modified weaver stance for pistols: dominant (right) arm straight, support arm bent and tucked in slightly, left foot forward and pointing straight, right foot behind and pointing out, knees bent slightly, leaning forward with torso angled toward the target. I am by no means an expert, but I can assure you that I'm not a novice either. Glocks are primarily what I shoot as far as handguns go. I'm just not used to the Hi-Power is all, and particularly that creepy, heavy ass trigger.



> false
> 
> false its not that pistol fights take place at fist fighting distances its that you can't really hit anything under 50 mtr like if some one was aiming a pistol at me and they were 50 meters away i'd probably walk off



I'm sure this statement was based on wisdom gained through his own experiences and training. I think this instructor spent some time in the army when he was younger. I know that he was actually the commander of the local PD SWAT team for a while before he retired, and he also did some security contracting over in Iraq after he left the PD. He definitely has the resume. Now he has his own consulting business doing firearms instruction and teaching courses for civilians and law enforcement. He also does private investigations.



> that actually is known as rapid fire the reason you did better is because of the basic marksmanship principles
> 
> 1. The position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.
> 2. The weapon must point naturally at the target without undue physical effort.
> ...



That, and I think it was also because I was able to see the sights better against the white area on that last target. This contrast probably helped with my sight alignment a bit.


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 9, 2017)

View attachment 21466 found some!

for sake of context rifle used was this minus the M203 (edit i'm uploading images so i can't really place them how i'd like)


Shane McNair said:


> I'm sure this statement was based on wisdom gained through his own experiences and training. I think this instructor spent some time in the army when he was younger. I know that he was actually the commander of the local PD SWAT team for a while before he retired, and he also did some security contracting over in Iraq after he left the PD. He definitely has the resume. Now he has his own consulting business doing firearms instruction and teaching courses for civilians and law enforcement. He also does private investigations.



mate there's a reason that modern rifles are made to punch out to 300 mtrs that's because (wink wink) its the average engagement range 
recently from Afghanistan and Iraq new rifles have been developed to punch out to 400-500mtr due to the AK i'm just telling you that i don't belive the guy i have actually come under fire and its never been within "pistol" range which is around 20-50 mtr 100 mtr if you're like an Olympic shooter its always been 300mtr+ 

as for weaver stance it depends on what you're doing it for Weaver is for cops and military because you have your body armour facing the Enemy if you fired on the side which feels more comfortable/natural you're exposing your sides to the Enemy if i didn't have body armour on i'd stand in a position that feels more natural to me 

any way i did find some shooting scores but i can't upload the images for some reason the photos are all over 1mb


----------



## Arwing Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> mate there's a reason that modern rifles are made to punch out to 300 mtrs that's because (wink wink) its the average engagement range



That's actually true of virtually any rifle, even ones that are 200 years old. Smoothbore muskets (no rifling) were pretty much 100 yard and closer weapons.



> recently from Afghanistan and Iraq new rifles have been developed to punch out to 400-500mtr due to the AK i'm just telling you that i don't belive the guy i have actually come under fire and its never been within "pistol" range which is around 20-50 mtr 100 mtr if you're like an Olympic shooter its always been 300mtr+



I'm not arguing with you or trying to take anything away from what you're saying, but I have no problem believing him because I know he has the professional background to validate his statements. I'm sure you're aware that Iraq was mostly an urban conflict, so in that instance, it wouldn't be incorrect to say that rifle fights were, in fact, taking place at pistol distances. Lots of door kicking, room clearing, house to house type stuff. His SWAT background probably has something to do with influencing his perspective as well, since they do mostly that same sort of thing. I think it comes down to different training, philosophies, and doctrines. His statement about fighting distances is rather situational though, and it could also be a bit of an exaggeration to make a point about how, generally speaking, firefights often take place at much closer distances than one might think. Vietnam would be another example. In the jungle, our troops were often engaging the Cong and the NVA at distances as close as 50 yards, and sometimes even closer.

You are correct about Afghanistan, though. I know that the environment there is very different from Iraq. Lots of high mountains, deep valleys, and wide open terrain. That was precisely the reason why the US gov't brought a bunch of our old M-14s out of storage, modernized them, equipped them with scopes, and reissued them as DMRs, because the military found that the M-4s and M-16s just didn't have the oomph to reach out and put bad guys down at 4-600 yards, which is common there. Like I said, it's all situational. Philosophies and doctrines change accordingly.



> as for weaver stance it depends on what you're doing it for Weaver is for cops and military because you have your body armour facing the Enemy if you fired on the side which feels more comfortable/natural you're exposing your sides to the Enemy if i didn't have body armour on i'd stand in a position that feels more natural to me.



I think you meant to say "isosceles stance". That's the one where you have your torso fully facing the bad guy, putting your ballistic plate directly in front of you so that it can protect you better in case you take a torso hit. Weaver stance has your body turned sideways a bit, which would expose your side and underarm.


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 9, 2017)

they both serve the same effect... 




www.google.com.au: weaver stance - Google Search


i'm talking about this 
www.google.com.au: pistol stance - Google Search

its more comfortable and natural


----------



## SlashVorezSilverfang (Sep 9, 2017)

I don't OWN it as I am only 18 and for some reason I can't buy one until I am 21 due to its ammo being considered a pistol round, but I have a Beretta ARX 160 22 lr

I am also going to buy this off of my dad as its the rifle he let me hunt with since I was 12 and he said he would sell it to me now that I am legally old enough to own it, so I will also say I have a Marlin 30-30 Winchester lever action rifle.

So that being said I own 2 firearms, but not officially just yet


----------



## Arwing Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> View attachment 21466 found some!
> 
> for sake of context rifle used was this minus the M203 (edit i'm uploading images so i can't really place them how i'd like)



Link doesn't work.

So tell me @GreenZone, in general, how good a shot would you say you are with the Hi-Powers you guys get issued?


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 9, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Link doesn't work.
> 
> So tell me @GreenZone, in general, how good a shot would you say you are with the Hi-Powers you guys get issued?



i don't actually know why there was an attachment there

any way

basically we need to get a mag and a half through roughly the same hole at around 100 feet the pistol one isn't taken too seriously since its a side weapon and when it comes to combat shooting which is doing funky ninja shit you just need to hit the target

according to my things from basic training what i was trying to upload) my first ever shoot with the AUG was a 23 mil 5 round grouping at 200 meters and a 98mil 35 round grouping at 300 mtr and the very last one is dated 3 months later at 67 mil grouping at 300 meters also 35 rounds

like we really need to be proficient with weapons here

example 




particularly at the end you can see how almost robotic it all looks

here's another one with pistols too


----------



## Arwing Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i don't actually know why there was an attachment there
> 
> any way
> 
> ...



Fuck me, are you telling me that the regular infantry guys get this kind of training?!? This looks like special forces stuff right here. Wow....


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 10, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Fuck me, are you telling me that the regular infantry guys get this kind of training?!? This looks like special forces stuff right here. Wow....


there's a reason we have very few deaths in wars and train marines before they go to the middle east

all this is part of the benefit of a small military so what happens is that stuff filters down from SASR who go over to UK, US, Israel, etc etc  train with their SF bring back new skills and pass those down to regular inf so a lot of the normal doctrine would be i guess Special forces related but this is far from our SF trust me SF does this kind of shit 




there's a course i want to get onto that's about hand to hand fighting and the final test is you're put in a room with 5 guys and all you need to do is leave the room no rules about how you do it just leave

i can't actually find any videos about our SF cause our country is secretive as fuck with that shit but there's a documentary about SAS selection (kinda like BUDs) which you can watch here's ep one if you're really that interested


----------



## reptile logic (Sep 10, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Alright guys, I'm proposing a little something new and different for this thread.
> 
> A while back, I got the the idea that we should all post pics of targets that we've shot at the range, for bragging rights or just to demonstrate our shooting skill, or whatever.
> 
> ...



I owned a Browning High Power; bought it gently used from a Marine in the mid-eighties. After firing a couple of boxes of ammo through it, I took it to a smith and had the magazine disconnect disabled. It made a big difference in trigger feel. A little more work, and it worked beautifully. Traded it for two other firearms back in the late-nineties.


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 10, 2017)

reptile logic said:


> I took it to a smith and had the magazine disconnect disabled. It made a big difference in trigger feel. A little more work, and it worked beautifully.



i don't get you two there's nothing wrong with it... my only gripe and its really just a doctoral thing is that i got small ish hands and everything needs to be done with the master hand so i have a problem releasing the slide with my master hand only and need to use my non master hand


----------



## Arwing Ace (Sep 10, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> i don't get you two there's nothing wrong with it... my only gripe and its really just a doctoral thing is that i got small ish hands and everything needs to be done with the master hand so i have a problem releasing the slide with my master hand only and need to use my non master hand



The Hi-Power is a fine design, but the trigger, as is, definitely leaves something to be desired. Believe me, removing the mag disconnect makes a noticeable difference in improving the trigger pull (although I'm sure your ADF issue sidearms still have them installed). I did that with the Argentine FM Hi-Power I had several years ago. Unfortunately, this was kind of a problem gun that was giving me extraction issues every fourth of fifth round. I tried to remedy this by changing out the the extractor and extractor spring, but that didn't really help. So, I ended up trading it. 

This thread is kind of making me feel like saving up for another Hi-Power now...lol.


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 10, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> The Hi-Power is a fine design, but the trigger, as is, definitely leaves something to be desired. Believe me, removing the mag disconnect makes a noticeable difference in improving the trigger pull (although I'm sure your ADF issue sidearms still have them installed). I did that with the Argentine FM Hi-Power I had several years ago. Unfortunately, this was kind of a problem gun that was giving me extraction issues every fourth of fifth round. I tried to remedy this by changing out the the extractor and extractor spring, but that didn't really help. So, I ended up trading it.
> 
> This thread is kind of making me feel like saving up for another Hi-Power now...lol.



ok i didn't know what the hell you people were talking about

ours don't have a magazine disconnect (the drill is to actually release the mag and let it fall to the ground) and it doesn't have a creeping trigger its got a very firm heavy trigger

maybe the issues depend on the model? we use the MK3 but i'm pretty sure that's the one you used at the range


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 11, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> I've never heard of a Hi-Power that didn't come with one from the factory.



well now you have even look back at the combat shooting video you will notice that the magazines are just falling to the ground  when i was looking up a disconnect i noticed that our pistols are different to the standard MK3 (example will be shown below) something Australia does is that we do not use imported weapons we buy models under licence and make them locally and fix what we perceive to be faults and give heavier barrels as we don't use standard ammunition we use NATO ammo that's got a heavier grain round and more explosive gun powder this is why the Army does not use the M4 more widely because we never reached an agreement with colt in changing the designs 

at any rate we're switching to the HK USP any way currently only SF are using them 

our pistols don't have this bit of metal jotting out


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 12, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> Do you know if they ever looked at possibly issuing the Canadian C8 carbine as an alternative?



i doubt it since it is made by Colt Canada so it would be the same problem and both countries were looking for a new rifle around the same time 

we tried designing two from scratch 
The Bushmaster M17 (didn't know that was Australian did you) 
and the T2 MK5 

both were not taken up for reasons that not many can find out about i know in the case of the M17 they just generally didn't like it


----------



## fluffthesergal (Sep 13, 2017)

Target shooter, military enthusiast, firearms enthusiast, but I don't own a gun to my name. I am only 21, broke, Canadian, and license-less. I haven't even a driver's license! I visit the US every year or two though, and I find that many of the gun users there aren't even as hardcore into guns as I am. I guess I am a bonafide gun-nut. I like shooting though, good for my anxiety believe it or not. After a mag or two downrange with as much precision and self-challenge as possible, I feel mellowed and happy.


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 13, 2017)

fluffthesergal said:


> I like shooting though, good for my anxiety believe it or not. After a mag or two downrange with as much precision and self-challenge as possible, I feel mellowed and happy.



well it is a sport akin to fishing or golf


----------



## fluffthesergal (Sep 13, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> well it is a sport akin to fishing or golf



For most people it is a lot like that. However, some people get a huge rush out of it. Then again, some do from fishing and golf! I suppose it depends on the person doing it.


----------



## Ramjet (Sep 13, 2017)

18 for either restricted or non-restricted..


----------



## fluffthesergal (Sep 15, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> 18 for either restricted or non-restricted..




Yep. However I have a situation in real life that makes it unviable to own a firearm at this point n' time. I am 21 as of this past May, but I still live with my family and am broke as fuck. Also, there are no ranges nearby and I've no car to my name or license to drive one either. YAY! But one day I can get my PAL and all will be chill.


----------



## Frijolero (Sep 15, 2017)

I own a couple
Chiappa Rhino 60ds - .357 mag
Beretta 92fs - 9mm
Intratec DC-9 - 9mm
Remington 870 express - 12ga

I'll add pictures later 

Also, I'm wanting to buy a S&W revolver
Does anyone have any suggestions on a good model that's chambered in a .44


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Sep 18, 2017)

Frijolero said:


> Also, I'm wanting to buy a S&W revolver
> Does anyone have any suggestions on a good model that's chambered in a .44


Forget about the S&W - they will shoot loose eventually.

Get a Ruger Redhawk, probably the most robust .44Mag in regular production. I've owned a number of S&W model 29/629 wheelguns and they do not like heavy loads. Eventually the timing gets fooked and you have to make a trip to the Gunmith. I had an 8" barrel 629 actually have to have the barrel set back to fix an excess cylinder/barrel gap. Needless to say, my 29/629s are relegated to light loads at the range.


----------



## Ramjet (Sep 18, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Forget about the S&W - they will shoot loose eventually.
> 
> Get a Ruger Redhawk, probably the most robust .44Mag in regular production. I've owned a number of S&W model 29/629 wheelguns and they do not like heavy loads. Eventually the timing gets fooked and you have to make a trip to the Gunmith. I had an 8" barrel 629 actually have to have the barrel set back to fix an excess cylinder/barrel gap. Needless to say, my 29/629s are relegated to light loads at the range.




Can second this!!
I had a 686 .357 mag and albeit iconic and purty,its nowhere near as robust of a platform as the Ruger for magnum wheelguns...


----------



## Frijolero (Sep 18, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Forget about the S&W - they will shoot loose eventually.
> 
> Get a Ruger Redhawk, probably the most robust .44Mag in regular production. I've owned a number of S&W model 29/629 wheelguns and they do not like heavy loads. Eventually the timing gets fooked and you have to make a trip to the Gunmith. I had an 8" barrel 629 actually have to have the barrel set back to fix an excess cylinder/barrel gap. Needless to say, my 29/629s are relegated to light loads at the range.



Thanks for the suggestion 
I always preferred the looks of S&W revolvers but not at the cost of quality


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 18, 2017)

you're all wrong colt 45 SSA beats everything


----------



## Ramjet (Sep 18, 2017)

The Colt has an even weaker frame then the S&W...Brand name means nothing..


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 18, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> The Colt has an even weaker frame then the S&W...Brand name means nothing..



wot? mine was from 1873 and it never had any issues


----------



## Ramjet (Sep 18, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> wot? mine was from 1873 and it never had any issues



Lol 1873 peacemaker .45 Colt??
We're not talking about single actions black powder loads,we're talking modern magnum double action revolvers..In that class nothing beats a Ruger Redhawk in that department..


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 18, 2017)

Ramjet556 said:


> Lol 1873 peacemaker .45 Colt??
> We're not talking about single actions black powder loads,we're talking modern magnum double action revolvers..In that class nothing beats a Ruger Redhawk in that department..


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Sep 19, 2017)

GreenZone said:


> you're all wrong colt 45 SSA beats everything


The real Colt .45 LC Single Actions were good with the very low pressure black powder loads of the day. Even the modern smokeless .45 LC loads can cause cumulative damage to a real SAA. An honest, actual vintage (pre-1940's) Colt SAA belongs on the wall as a display, in all honesty. If you're regularly shooting .45 Long Colt, get a Cimarron or Umberti replica. Superior metallurgy, excellent fit and finish. Plus, they will put up with continuous range and action shooting without complaint.


----------



## GreenZone (Sep 19, 2017)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The real Colt .45 LC Single Actions were good with the very low pressure black powder loads of the day. Even the modern smokeless .45 LC loads can cause cumulative damage to a real SAA. An honest, actual vintage (pre-1940's) Colt SAA belongs on the wall as a display, in all honesty. If you're regularly shooting .45 Long Colt, get a Cimarron or Umberti replica. Superior metallurgy, excellent fit and finish. Plus, they will put up with continuous range and action shooting without complaint.



well it was given to me when i was like 10-11 so i didn't understand the value of it but apart from that there was really nothing wrong with and i used to shoot it a lot the only thing is the cylinder pin snapped and i had to make a new one out of an old bolt

you need to keep in mind when i was given it, it was for doing "chores" around my mums hobby farm

i don't know if they have this deal in America but here you can buy like 1000+ acres but you can only build on something very small like 5 acres and the rest is semi national park the upside of buying these properties is that you're entrusted with managing the pest animals and stuff

one of my chores when we stayed at the farm was actually riding around on ATV or Horseback with the colt on my hip looking for pest animals and also to protect myself from poachers since there were a lot of deer and shit 

the property covered half a mountain and had a lot of rain forest and steams we found funny shit all the time


----------



## Jarren (Oct 7, 2017)

I snagged a new range toy. Yeah, this is entirely for my own amusement, no real collector's value here, just something to bring with me as a frequent shooter at the range.
It's a nice clone of the Saiga 12 gauge shotgun (an EM12B, to list what it calls itself) and it's got some of the best AK ergonomics I've ever handled.
I was planning to try and pick up and AUG or one of it's clones, but the price scared me off, as well as getting some hands on time with a few. The ergonomics aren't quite as good as I thought the first time. So, shelved that plan.


GreenZone said:


> well it was given to me when i was like 10-11 so i didn't understand the value of it but apart from that there was really nothing wrong with and i used to shoot it a lot the only thing is the cylinder pin snapped and i had to make a new one out of an old bolt
> 
> you need to keep in mind when i was given it, it was for doing "chores" around my mums hobby farm
> 
> ...


That sounds really fun, actually (apart from the dealing with 'pests'). My family has a fairly large chunk of land, but it's all private and entirely wooded so getting anywhere off the beaten path requires some bushwhacking and rock climbing. Plus, with all the moose and bear on our land, it's normally a good idea to go armed. We've had to chase a few people off our land before as well, mostly people wandering the trails, but occasionally we'd get hunters trespassing, trying to get at the critters on our land.


----------



## Yakamaru (Oct 7, 2017)

I've been wondering. How does it feel to fire an AK, a 9mm, etc?

Hey, that reminds me of this video:


----------



## Telnac (Oct 20, 2017)

I love the AK. Downsides: it has got a decent kick and it's certainly LOUD. The 7.62 round drops like a rock. Worst safety ever. Upsides: it certainly has some helt & stopping power behind it. I dunno, I just love the simple elegance of the weapon.  You can field strip it with minimal training in under 10 seconds.  Even an idiot can figure out how to use & clean an AK. 

I'm not a big fan of the AR-15. Don't get me wrong, it's a great gun and is accurate as heck but it feels like I'm shooting my son's .22. The round is laughably small. I know it still has plenty of stopping power; it's lethality is all in the round's speed.  But the gun is more plastic than metal and cleaning it is a pain in the butt! Why would they put the gas tube's exaust port right in the middle of the bolt carrier group?!  The main advantage is the round's flat trajectory gives it greater accuracy & range than the AK. That and there are more ways to customize an AR than there are ways to customize Barbie!

As for 9mm, I love the Beretta 92FS. It's a heavier gun than the Glock but that means it handles recoil better. Physics says heavier guns that shoot the same round will recoil less. The double action/single action design has a LOT of haters but I love it.  The first trigger pull is heavy & deliberate but every other round is silky smooth to put downrange. 

Want the opposite of silky smooth?  That's the 1944 Mosin-Nagant carbine. The 7.62x54 bullet is the same width as the AK-47 but the powder load is almost double for the Mosin-Nagant. The shell was designed for a full length barrel but the 1944 carbine is a military conversion of the popular hunting rifle so it has a shorter barrel & a bayonnet. The shorter barrel means the powder doesn't completely burn begore the shell is out of the barrel. That unburnt powder turns into a 4 foot wide fireball!  And talk about LOUD, the concussion wave feels almost like a grenade went off. And yes, you WILL have a nice a bruise on your shoulder after a day at the range!  The advantages?  A bullet with the helt of an AK-47 but the speed of the AR-15.  And talk about accurate!  The Mosin-Nagant is legendary as a sniper rifle and even with iron sights it's easy to hit a target a long range.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

"CLEAR!"
Bzzzt!

Well, I'm reviving this thread because I've got something relevant to post and it was mine to start with. (Plus I haven't seen a new one crop up since this one was first made).

Anywho, I'm stoked that I finally found something I've been searching high and low for at a non bank breaking price and thanks to @-..Legacy..- I was finally able to dig it up.



Spoiler: Large image here.










I finally snagged the wide handguard and the bipod for this thing so I've finally got this set up in the proper G3A3 configuration (ignoring the modern optic and welded top rail, because fuck claw-mounts). It feels so good to finally have this together. I'm like a kid on Christmas morning right now. So, guys, post your own new/favorite stuff.


----------



## -..Legacy..- (Jan 2, 2018)

Jarren said:


> "CLEAR!"
> Bzzzt!
> 
> Well, I'm reviving this thread because I've got something relevant to post and it was mine to start with. (Plus I haven't seen a new one crop up since this one was first made).
> ...



Lol you didn't waste any time snatching that handguard up


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

-..Legacy..- said:


> Lol you didn't waste any time snatching that handguard up


Nope. Lowest price I've seen on it. Had to grab it before the folks at RTG came to their senses and jacked it up.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 2, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> Can't have a firearm thread without the Barret 50. caliber! For when hunting armored elephants!
> 
> Believe it or not, but you can actually buy this shit in the US. Same with a vehicle-mounted MG.


Sadly not in CA


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Sweet! I didn't know you had one of those. Is that a PTR-91 or a G3/CETME build? How's the trigger on it? I hear that they're real heavy.


PTR. The trigger is a bit heavy (it does come from a very military and utilitarian pedigree), but the break is nice and clean. It's an incredibly hefty beast, though.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 2, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Sadly not in CA


Sadly not. Just get a helicopter with a minigun instead. Does a better job when fighting people with dildos and other sex toys.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 2, 2018)

Jarren said:


> "CLEAR!"
> Bzzzt!
> 
> Well, I'm reviving this thread because I've got something relevant to post and it was mine to start with. (Plus I haven't seen a new one crop up since this one was first made).
> ...


I’ll be picking up my new range toy next week: 7.62x54 VEPR. Background check cleared & 10 day waiting period ended today but the dealer’s in San Diego so I have to pick it up mext Saturday. I can’t wait!


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I’ll be picking up my new range toy next week: 7.62x54 VEPR. Background check cleared & 10 day waiting period ended today but the dealer’s in San Diego so I have to pick it up mext Saturday. I can’t wait!


Nice. I stumbled across a PSL at a local shop the other day, original optic and everything. I've been looking into the semi-auto 54r guns but all of them seem to have stocks that are far too short for me to use effectively.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 2, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Nice. I stumbled across a PSL at a local shop the other day, original optic and everything. I've been looking into the semi-auto 54r guns but all of them seem to have stocks that are far too short for me to use effectively.


Sweet. Did you pick it up?


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

Nah, it had sold the previous day. The guy had it on layaway and it was still on the wall. I got to handle it though.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 2, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Nah, it had sold the previous day. The guy had it on layaway and it was still on the wall. I got to handle it though.


 Too bad. At least you got to fondle the goods! 

I got to see my gun when I filled out the paperwork for the background check. It’s a beautiful gun!  Will post a pic when I bring it home!


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Yeah, but those stock PTR triggers are like a 9-10 pound pull. That's absolutely horrible. If I got one, the first thing I'd do is swap out the trigger pack with one that that has a lighter pull, say 5 or even 6 pounds. Not exactly match grade, but still much better. Closer to a stock AR trigger.
> 
> I've always really wanted an FAL, but good quality ones are expensive, hard to come by, and DSA is the only company in the US that manufactures them. Not a lot of market support for them, sadly. Then there's also the issue of magazines, which are more scarce now and pushing $30 a mag, and then you have the whole inch vs. metric problem. So, I've flirted with the idea of picking up a PTR instead. I've already got a bunch of aluminum G3 mags tucked away. Got them from Brownell's for only $3.50 each. I'm torn between the GI and the GI R models. I like the GI because it's the closest thing available to the classic Cold War era G3s, but the Picatinny rail on the GI R model would be nice for mounting an Eotech on - a vast improvement over the iron sights. But then again, do I really want to add any more weight to an already heavy rifle?


I went with the GI R specifically because I wanted to mount optics on it and I feel like I made the right choice. As it is a new production gun, I didn't feel bad departing from the original formula in that regard, as didn't have to worry about the collector's value like I do with a lot of my other guns. Plus the rail doesn't add too much weight, in the grand scheme of things. Less than a big-ass claw mount and much sturdier.


----------



## luvbourn (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm not a firearm owner but my dad is. He's got a handgun and a rifle; takes me out whenever we shoot out for fun 
;-; but i can't shoot the rile standing because i have very weak arms


----------



## Telnac (Jan 2, 2018)

luvbourn said:


> I'm not a firearm owner but my dad is. He's got a handgun and a rifle; takes me out whenever we shoot out for fun
> ;-; but i can't shoot the rile standing because i have very weak arms


My son doesn’t like shooting rifles for similar reasons. He loves shooting my 9mm Beretta tho!


----------



## Jarren (Jan 2, 2018)

Headspace being too great or too small can lead to slamfires or out of battery detonations, but for either you've gotta be a good way out of spec. Still, with how violent the action is it's good to check every so often just to make sure, and keeping the rollers lubed and smooth is a general maintenance thing. If those rollers, a high wear part, aren't rolling well, your gun won't run smoothly (or even not lock up sometimes).


----------



## -..Legacy..- (Jan 2, 2018)

Polish your triggers.  It makes a big difference if done right.


----------



## -..Legacy..- (Jan 2, 2018)

Mil spec is horribly misadvertised nowadays.  Unless it has an NSN, it's not Milspec.


----------



## Simo (Jan 2, 2018)

i only had a bb gun. Loud noises scare me, in my woods. oh, ok, shot a 22 once

didn't wanna kill bambi!

i was too soft


----------



## Simo (Jan 2, 2018)

and Bambi taste good, don't get me wrong

just is hard to hear that sound


----------



## Simo (Jan 2, 2018)

maybe bowhunting
 still ya gotta shoot 'em after, generally.....................


----------



## Crimcyan (Jan 3, 2018)

I only have pellet guns and paintball guns, might get a gun in the future but I really don't want to do all the licensing stuff.
My favorite guns that I have gotten to shoot is the barrett m107a1 and mp5


----------



## Leinad433 (Jan 3, 2018)

Damn, you furs all have guns and ammo, 

And I'm just sitting here with a rubber band, a disjointed stick and a stone from the local park. 

How is shooting guns like anyway? 
I've always loved the look of double barreled shotties & magnums.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 3, 2018)

Leinad433 said:


> Damn, you furs all have guns and ammo,
> 
> And I'm just sitting here with a rubber band, a disjointed stick and a stone from the local park.
> 
> ...


Loud!  Very loud. ALWAYS wear ear protection!

I only do target shooting. I’ve enjoyed shooting archery since I was a teen. When I started shooting a gun it surprised me because how accurate guns are out to absurd distances.  But there are some similarities with shooting a gun and a bow. Like noob archers tend to release a bowstring by jerking their hand, which throws off their aim, novice shooters tend to jerk the trigger. It’s as if they fear the gun is going to fly out of their hand if they don’t, but doing so throws the barrel off target. The key to accuracy is consistency. Gently pulling the trigger and not death-gripping the gun yields a consistent trigger pull that is essential to accurate shooting.

I know gun ownership in England is a legal nightmare but there should be gun clubs that will let you rent a gun at the range if you want to try the sport of target shooting out yourself. Make sure you find one with a new shooter class!  That will teach you the gun safety rules and how to properly use the equipment.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 3, 2018)

I have an avid collector. I study history extensively and I love the mechanics involved in firearms. So yes many of these I made myself. Except for the 1937 Izhevsk mosin and the m1891 Argentinian mauser made in 1895.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 3, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> View attachment 26066
> I have an avid collector. I study history extensively and I love the mechanics involved in firearms. So yes many of these I made myself. Except for the 1937 Izhevsk mosin and the m1891 Argentinian mauser made in 1895.


That's a nice Argentine you've got there.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 3, 2018)

Jarren said:


> That's a nice Argentine you've got there.


Numbers matching. But to purists its ruined due to it being imported in the 1950's and sportized. It was sold by Wards.  So it was a factory sporter. Crest has been ground. Thing is accurate. I really want to convert it to 7.62x39mm. However I have gathered up enough parts to possibly make a 7.62x39 bolt action using a simplified mauser action that will accept akm clips. That would be a dream rifle. The 1937 mosin shows no import marks so I suspect due to its age its a korean war take back, or vietnam war. Getting into handloading as well


----------



## chuckles_da_wolf (Jan 3, 2018)

I own multiple, sold my AK a few months ago


----------



## Leinad433 (Jan 3, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Loud!  Very loud. ALWAYS wear ear protection!
> 
> I only do target shooting. I’ve enjoyed shooting archery since I was a teen. When I started shooting a gun it surprised me because how accurate guns are out to absurd distances.  But there are some similarities with shooting a gun and a bow. Like noob archers tend to release a bowstring by jerking their hand, which throws off their aim, novice shooters tend to jerk the trigger. It’s as if they fear the gun is going to fly out of their hand if they don’t, but doing so throws the barrel off target. The key to accuracy is consistency. Gently pulling the trigger and not death-gripping the gun yields a consistent trigger pull that is essential to accurate shooting.
> 
> I know gun ownership in England is a legal nightmare but there should be gun clubs that will let you rent a gun at the range if you want to try the sport of target shooting out yourself. Make sure you find one with a new shooter class!  That will teach you the gun safety rules and how to properly use the equipment.



Definitely will be using ear protection, already losing my hearing... 

I would love to go gun shooting, although being in the UK, it is very strict around here, I'm pretty sure the last gun store I've seen here was 10 years ago, when I was 10 lmao which is pretty long ago and when I was in my prime. 

Gun handling doesn't look hard to most people, it's all about control & focus. Still want to test it out for myself. I'll try to find one if possible! 

If anything, testing shotties & pistols would be a blast.


----------



## Wolfstin (Jan 4, 2018)

The area I live everyone owns a gun including me. I use my gun for both sport and hunting and I goddamn love it.


----------



## Mabus (Jan 5, 2018)

Im from texas... if the coyotes dont getcha, the lesser population will.

Kindof need a firearm for protection ^<^;


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 5, 2018)

.50 cal. <3


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 7, 2018)

Firearms with a bit of class


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## Tao (Jan 7, 2018)

I don't own anything but my gal has several antique deer rifles for home defense. I'm saving up for a Taurus Public Defender since I tend to run into boar, gators, bears, etc. out in the woods.


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## loganltn (Jan 9, 2018)

right here! I have a PWS MK1 and a PWS summit straight .22lr rimfire.


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## Ramjet (Jan 13, 2018)

Savage A17 .17HMR semi auto,anyone have one?

Does it cycle reliably without CCI's/Savage's A17 specialty proprietary ammo?Regular 17gr-20gr (Remington,to Winchester,to Hornady),does it cycle reliably?

Personally don't like Savage's proprietary rotary magazines...Played with a B-mag .17WSM rimfire with the same mag and wasn't impressed..Not a game changer really considering its not even the same caliber,just something I keep in mind between my ultimate choice betweem a Savage A17 or a CZ 455 stainless .17HMR...

Want a accurate semi .17 over anything,just concerned about it's ability to cycle everyday off the shelf .17HMR..


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## Ramjet (Jan 13, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I don't own one, but based on a few things I've read, the A17 will cycle a variety of factory ammo. The load that was developed between Savage and CCI was _optimized_ for the rifle, but it looks like other brands will function fine in it. I think it could be one of those cases where you'd just have to try a bunch of different loads and see what the rifle likes. As you know, that's just how it is with many semi-auto guns.
> 
> Here's what I found in an article about the A17 at gunsandammo.com: www.gunsandammo.com: Savage A17 Review - Guns & Ammo
> 
> ...




Wow bud thank you so so much!!!

Yeah that's my gripe with it too,don't wanna be forced to buy A17 to get "optimal performance"...
Seems like a cop-out incase your gun FTE regularly with off the shelf .17hmr on a regular basis.

Think I'll stick with a bolt cz455...Really miss my 452 .17 varmint anyway


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## Ramjet (Jan 13, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> No problem, my man.
> 
> Unfortunately .17 HMR doesn't have the greatest track record in semi-autos, and the A17 is a relatively new rifle that has yet to really prove itself imo. I'd wait some time for the design to mature, gain a rep, and have all the teething problems fixed first before dropping $450+ dollars on it. This is a big reason why I prefer to go with long-established firearm designs and technology.



Agreed!

Yeah there was that whole Remington 597 .17hmr chaos...lol

Just so much pressure in a .17 it's prone to case fail in a direct blow back design...
Wonder why they haven't tried a short stroke piston design?Maybe not enough pressure?
Savage went with a delayed blow back with the A17,seems like a over complicated design really..

Oh well,nothing like racking a bolt gun anyway,super sexy


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 14, 2018)

Got into handloading. In the last past three days I've made over 150 45LC for my revolver and I'm making 30-30's that are actually pleasant to shoot and don't jam the guns.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jan 14, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> View attachment 26580
> Got into handloading. In the last past three days I've made over 150 45LC for my revolver and I'm making 30-30's that are actually pleasant to shoot and don't jam the guns.



I do hope the suit wasn't a safety hazard.


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## BahgDaddy (Jan 14, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> View attachment 26580
> Got into handloading. In the last past three days I've made over 150 45LC for my revolver and I'm making 30-30's that are actually pleasant to shoot and don't jam the guns.




I'm a leftist NRA-hater that supports gun control and I'm friends with this person...


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 14, 2018)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> I do hope the suit wasn't a safety hazard.


Nah too messy to ever do any handloading a suit. Just figured I'd throw on the partial for a photo


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 14, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I'm a leftist NRA-hater that supports gun control and I'm friends with this person...


You support logical safety regulations. Not bans. Many of the people were I grew up supported bans. If anything their strict anti gun nature and the criminal world where I grew pushed me to go look at firearms and the safety practices involved in them. 

I truly believe there should just be a basic safety course given to everybody. I feel this would remove the equal parts of  fear as well as remove a lot of the dangers and accidents that happen in this society.

Also some of my guns have oddball calibres. Now I can reshape 30-06  brass into 7.65x53 for my 1895 mauser :3


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## Jarren (Jan 14, 2018)

Honestly, I'm on board with safety courses and storage requirements and such. Hell, I'd even support licensing.
My gripe with both those things is twofold: 
1 it puts the hobby and right out of reach of a lot of people with more limited incomes or who just don't live in areas where they could get to the courses/registration sites easily and readily. Thus is amounts to an infringement.
2 I'm not confident that tougher restrictions wouldn't end up being used to deny ownership to marginal groups, the disadvantaged, and minorities like has been done in the past.

That said, I won't get political on here. That'll derail and open up a whole new can of worms.

On a related note, good to see people hand-loading. It's a slowly dying art that I'd like to get into one day.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 14, 2018)

keep an eye out for presses on ebay I got my entire set up for 180  with the shipping. the Lyman Spartan only required a 20 dollar part they still make to get the priming tool working. But  this kit came with scale, powder thrower, case trimmer, a bunch of dies and (However only 2 sets were complete.. I have the sizers for like 3 different calibres I don't have) So I have a complete 9mm, 38 special. and 222 remington. I bought the 45lc, 7.62x39, 7.62.54r, and I had to buy a complete 30-30 set. I also have the sizer coming in for the mauser so i can reshape easily acquired 30-06 brass. There was a few other things I needed to purchase, but I know I've already made back my money with the making of the 45LC for a 3/4 the price of a new round.

Even the 30-30 have gone up in price for ammo that's really subpar. a 17 dollar box will result in jams and sometimes doesn't shoot. My bullets I loaded with 32 grains of IMR 4350 with polymer coated 158 grain bullets was POA accuracy and loaded without an issue. I used to hate my marlin 336.. I learned now it was the ammo that was making the gun suck. I have a few amazing tack driver mosins with regular cheap ammo. I really wonder how they would be with custom ammo.

Oh yeah and the press also came with the book as well. its an older book from 1968 but the data is still viable.

I've wanted to hand load for years. its just pulling the trigger was always difficult due to upfront cost. I'd say your best bet is to go for a basic press on sale and focus on a few expensive calibres and once you get comfortable and move on. I have a friend who is going to be buying bullets from me for a bit above cost. So we're both looking at it as a way for us to have fun together.


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## Jarren (Jan 14, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> keep an eye out for presses on ebay I got my entire set up for 180  with the shipping. the Lyman Spartan only required a 20 dollar part they still make to get the priming tool working. But  this kit came with scale, powder thrower, case trimmer, a bunch of dies and (However only 2 sets were complete.. I have the sizers for like 3 different calibres I don't have) So I have a complete 9mm, 38 special. and 222 remington. I bought the 45lc, 7.62x39, 7.62.54r, and I had to buy a complete 30-30 set. I also have the sizer coming in for the mauser so i can reshape easily acquired 30-06 brass. There was a few other things I needed to purchase, but I know I've already made back my money with the making of the 45LC for a 3/4 the price of a new round.
> 
> Even the 30-30 have gone up in price for ammo that's really subpar. a 17 dollar box will result in jams and sometimes doesn't shoot. My bullets I loaded with 32 grains of IMR 4350 with polymer coated 158 grain bullets was POA accuracy and loaded without an issue. I used to hate my marlin 336.. I learned now it was the ammo that was making the gun suck. I have a few amazing tack driver mosins with regular cheap ammo. I really wonder how they would be with custom ammo.
> 
> ...


I have guns that run 7.5 swiss and 8mm mauser, so expensive calibres are my jam.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 14, 2018)

Jarren said:


> I have guns that run 7.5 swiss and 8mm mauser, so expensive calibres are my jam.


Let me check my reloading manual real quick. Yeah pretty sure the 8mm and the swiss would likely share the same powder and primers. To give you an idea when i boguht my 8 pound jug of IMR 4350 it was pricey. But 56,000 grains of powder goes a long ways. Just the 40 30-30's I made were 40 cents a round including powder bullet and primer. So literally 9 dollars for 20 compared to 17 for twenty.

Its a hard thing to grasp but once you shoot the first bullet you make its hard to forsee buying store bought ammo again. All of my bullets have gone off, and I know EXACTLY what is in them. And even then the lower end of the scale is always easier to shoot and reduces recoil.


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 14, 2018)

^^^^ That Yugo underfolder..... <3   Always love an AK.


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## Ramjet (Jan 15, 2018)

Reloading is still a desired but uncharted world for me...One day I'll learn,but for right now,so so too lazy

My gripe ATM is wondering WTF to do with this this thing...










.177 cal Webley Raider...Still considered a firearm in Canada (at aprox 1000fps with a 7.9gr)....
Got a scope ready for it but still need a HPA hand pump...

To sell or not to sell..


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## Ramjet (Jan 15, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Agreed. I'd like to start reloading too, but there's that initial cost thing to get into it. And the even bigger problem is that it's so time-consuming.
> 
> That's a pretty nice looking air rifle. I like the wood on that. I'd say that's a keeper.



I was thinking just a Lee handheld press actually just for my .308...






Other then the .308 my shooting cost is cheap as fuck....

556,9mm,22lr,and 12G is cheap to shoot with commercial off the shelf factory...The .308 at 2 bucks a pop leaves much to be desired as far as factory loads concerned

As far as the air rifle,I don't know man....The local European Starling population has already took a major hit thanks too me...No need to rub salt in the wounds with this thing

I'm still thinking about it...I'd need to get a HPA pump and rings for it....See what spring brings


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 15, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> I was thinking just a Lee handheld press actually just for my .308...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah. I'd like to start reloading if for no other reason than to make shooting my Garand more affordable, and to make loads to the old GI specs for it. .30-06 is even harder on the wallet than .308. Even the cheapest commercial stuff I see from Federal is $17.00/box.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 15, 2018)

Built that yugo myself. Unfired parts kit. Must have been in some military outpost that never saw action. Adding the scope mount people thought was insane but the 7.62x39 is the Soviet brother to the 30-30. Also I needed a 'scary' gun. Despite the fact my revolver has turned out to be my scary gun for me personally.

I was able to recreate 1800's service rounds. 30 grains of blackpowder with a cast bullet. That's a powerfull round.

With 8.2 grains of unique and the same cast bullet it's a very pleasant yet powerfull shooter. Have a friend whose highly interested in us going hunting with them.

The gun I really want to start handloading for is my mauser. Things a tack driver. Collector value is non existent as it's a factory sporter for wards during the 1950's however the work is professional and that gun is all numbers matching. The aperture redfield sight is a breeze to use.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 16, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Yeah, I don't really get why you added that scope mount either, to be honest. Maybe if you had a fixed stock rifle, but on an underfolder? It just interferes with being able to fold the stock up all the way. :0
> 
> I used to have an AKM built from a 1964 Romanian parts kit. It was a well used, beat up kit that came out of the Balkans. Had the donkey dong foregrip and someone carved the words "Kung Fu" into the buttstock. I'd love to know what the story was on that.
> 
> And I really need to start reloading/handloading. Would be a very useful skill to have. It's still on my long list of things to do.


Backpack rifle. I'm aware the stock hits it. But the distance is negligible when slung over the back . Also with not being folded up it's a quick throw down and there we go.

I'm going to either wrap it with paracord or shoe lace to create a cushion. I have reasons for my build. Would have loved to make an underfolding mosin for a scoped build. But at the time there was no good sources of the underfolding mechanism and the supply of cheap mosins dried up. My shitty t-56 carbine cost 150 and I knew that was the end of the line. A part of me regrets not getting the laminate hex head with two cross bolts but time made up for that with my sportized War take back.

Yeah I know a scoped ak is an odd thing. But ballistics like like 30-30 are hard to argue with and people do take down decent game with these.


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## -..Legacy..- (Jan 16, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> View attachment 26066
> I have an avid collector. I study history extensively and I love the mechanics involved in firearms. So yes many of these I made myself. Except for the 1937 Izhevsk mosin and the m1891 Argentinian mauser made in 1895.



Then you'd probably love my 1886 Martini Henry 2 band long lever Cavalry Rifle with all the Arabic markings down the barrel


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## Dio_the_wolf (Jan 16, 2018)

9mm Hipoint Carbine! I've had this for about 10 years now, and still shoots, and works perfectly! 
Savage .17 bolt.. Sweet rifle for decent range target shooting! Such a fun gun!

Next.. I want a bolt action .223.. Fursuit took that cash.. haha!

Plus.. I have two Samick Sage recurves.. 30lbs and 40lbs..


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## Kumali (Jan 16, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I'm a leftist NRA-hater that supports gun control



Me too...AND, I own a Canik 9mm.

As Walt Whitman said: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes."


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## BahgDaddy (Jan 16, 2018)

Kumali said:


> Me too...AND, I own a Canik 9mm.
> 
> As Walt Whitman said: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes."



I don't want to derail the 2nd amendment. And I'd like to buy a gun or two. 

But I think the NRA is run by crazy people who want everyone to be carrying a gun by the age of 9, and they've become completely insane.


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## Jarren (Jan 16, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I don't want to derail the 2nd amendment. And I'd like to buy a gun or two.
> 
> But I think the NRA is run by crazy people who want everyone to be carrying a gun by the age of 9, and they've become completely insane.


Not gonna lie, a good number of us view Mr. Lapierre in a rather questionable light. Not particularly a fan of where he's taken the organization.


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## BahgDaddy (Jan 16, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Not gonna lie, a good number of us view Mr. Lapierre in a rather questionable light. Not particularly a fan of where he's taken the organization.



Good to know. I feel like they've really just started pandering to alt-right evangelical gun-worshippers with no grasp on reality, rabidly trying to force gun propaganda on everyone and believing any and all safety regulations amount to an infringement of the 2nd Amendment.


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## Jarren (Jan 16, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Good to know. I feel like they've really just started pandering to alt-right evangelical gun-worshippers with no grasp on reality, rabidly trying to force gun propaganda on everyone and believing any and all safety regulations amount to an infringement of the 2nd Amendment.


It's gone from being an advocacy and educational organization to being basically a propaganda machine that does a very poor job of adhering to it's initial tenants. 
As I've said, I'd be on board with some of the"safety" proposals if the people enforcing then could be trusted to not use them as tools of control/oppression (requiring a license you can only get at one location, hundreds of miles away, at great cost, at really inconvenient times, banning aesthetic/ergonomic features, needing certain forms of ID that certain marginalized groups would have trouble getting simply to fill out a 44/73, etc) and that once those measures were enacted that they wouldn't snowball into California-style restrictions or worse.
The thing is, I can't say trust either of those cases to be true and, as such am still against further regulation. That said, this is straying a bit political. Gonna stop myself before the mods see.


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 16, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Would have loved to make an underfolding mosin for a scoped build.



Lol, that's an.... interesting idea, to say the least.  I won't lie, that would actually be cool to see. That sounds like something one of those tribal gunsmiths in Darra, Pakistan would come up with. 



> Yeah I know a scoped ak is an odd thing. But ballistics like like 30-30 are hard to argue with and people do take down decent game with these.



It's not necessarily that, it's just that the presence of a side rail scope mount on an _underfolder _is rather unusual and a bit awkward. But if that works for you, then more power to you. If the rifle had a fixed or even a side-folding stock, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Optics are becoming a common sight on AKs nowadays, even in some armies as a standard issue item.


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## Simo (Jan 16, 2018)

Is there such a thing as a high-power, very accurate squirt gun? I'd love such a weapon, that could shoot a stream of liquid a good distance, and wonder if some sort of hi-tech model exists. Then, I could fill it with skunk musk!

Also, due to sensory processing issues, I can't take the sudden noise/recoil a gun makes, along with motorcycles and other sounds, so an actual 'gun' like that fires bullets isn't something I'd want.

But a high tech squirt-gun, maybe.

Or maybe a paintball gun, with balls filled with skunk musk?


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## Jarren (Jan 16, 2018)

Simo said:


> Is there such a thing as a high-power, very accurate squirt gun? I'd love such a weapon, that could shoot a stream of liquid a good distance, and wonder if some sort of hi-tech model exists. Then, I could fill it with skunk musk!
> 
> Also, due to sensory processing issues, I can't take the sudden noise/recoil a gun makes, along with motorcycles and other sounds, so an actual 'gun' like that fires bullets isn't something I'd want.
> 
> ...


Find a way to get a backpack portable power washer. Have a lackey pull around a wagon with a barrel of water/your devious plan. Act like a ww1 flamethrower team. 
Also, you might be at home shooting something like a suppressed .22. low recoil and it's pretty quiet.


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## Simo (Jan 16, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Find a way to get a backpack portable power washer. Have a lackey pull around a wagon with a barrel of water/your devious plan. Act like a ww1 flamethrower team.
> Also, you might be at home shooting something like a suppressed .22. low recoil and it's pretty quiet.



Huh, the powerwasher is an idea!

Though I have looked at the world of squirt-guns, and noted that the Water Warriors Colossus 2 Water Blaster has a range of 40 feet...not bad for $20. : P

But makes me curious, as to advances in squirt-gun technology, to advance my nefarious schemes!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 16, 2018)

Simo said:


> Huh, the powerwasher is an idea!
> 
> Though I have looked at the world of squirt-guns, and noted that the Water Warriors Colossus 2 Water Blaster has a range of 40 feet...not bad for $20. : P
> 
> But makes me curious, as to advances in squirt-gun technology, to advance my nefarious schemes!



Get the pressure pump of for one of those sprayers for paint. The type that doesn't need a compressor. Get an alluminum tank of some sort. Connect it to a valve. One of those hose sprayers for compressed air would work. Have it sent up like a pump air rifle. With a psi gauge. Basically the pump would pressurize the tank. Pull the trigger pressure goes out the barrel with the liquid.

Always wanted to build a rifle out of pipe fittings fallout style. Considering the Germans made a mauser out of sheet metal I think a 7.62x39 bolt action is doable


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jan 17, 2018)

Simo said:


> Is there such a thing as a high-power, very accurate squirt gun? I'd love such a weapon, that could shoot a stream of liquid a good distance, and wonder if some sort of hi-tech model exists. Then, I could fill it with skunk musk!
> 
> Also, due to sensory processing issues, I can't take the sudden noise/recoil a gun makes, along with motorcycles and other sounds, so an actual 'gun' like that fires bullets isn't something I'd want.
> 
> ...


You would be surprised at the low recoil and report from a Ruger 10/22 .22lr rifle. It's almost like it has none. Same goes for my dedicated .22lr only AR builds. I put those together to look like the early USAF model M16 or Colt 604 that I carried in the service. Zilch for recoil and pretty low noise, too. Earplugs, then Mickey Mouse ears over the top will make the noise a non-issue.


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## Black Burn (Jan 17, 2018)

I with I could own a gun to protect myself but having a gun here where I is harder than owning a villa, you have to go through psychic tests etc. They have to check your house, and after two eternities maybe police will give you license for a gun, but most of the times they don't give you it, and then you can buy a pistol, so you've to spend a lot of money and time to have license for it, and then you still can only buy a little pistol thst cost a lot probably, so it's not profitable...


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 18, 2018)

Black Burn said:


> I with I could own a gun to protect myself but having a gun here where I is harder than owning a villa, you have to go through psychic tests etc. They have to check your house, and after two eternities maybe police will give you license for a gun, but most of the times they don't give you it, and then you can buy a pistol, so you've to spend a lot of money and time to have license for it, and then you still can only buy a little pistol thst cost a lot probably, so it's not profitable...


Black powder cap and ball revolver. Get a remington 1858 clone. The colts are a bit finicky I've noticed and the sights leave even less to be desired. 

The beauty of such a gun is its antiquated nature. However with a simple conversion cylinder you can change it from a 454 ball to a 45 colt with a cylinder swap. My pride of joy is an Uberti 1858 I made from a parts kit.

Granted if you live in New Jersey or one of those whack job states which views any pistol as a saturday night special I feel sorry for you.

Also the main thing about a cap and ball revolver is it doesn't meet firearm regulations. So it can be mailed to your door. Same with the conversion kit.

Its not until it can take metallic cartridges is it a firearm. Even then a 30 grains of blackpowder propelling a .454 is ballistically the same as a .357 magnum.

Also if you're a minor you can theoretically purchase it. Its just getting the powder may be difficult. My friend liked my revolver so much he wanted me to build him one as well.


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## Jarren (Jan 18, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Black powder cap and ball revolver. Get a remington 1858 clone. The colts are a bit finicky I've noticed and the sights leave even less to be desired.
> 
> The beauty of such a gun is its antiquated nature. However with a simple conversion cylinder you can change it from a 454 ball to a 45 colt with a cylinder swap. My pride of joy is an Uberti 1858 I made from a parts kit.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure he lives in Poland...


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 18, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Pretty sure he lives in Poland...


You're shit out of luck. Unless you go to the syndicate and pick up a black market pistol. But that point if you're breaking the law make an open bolt SMG.


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## Black Burn (Jan 19, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> You're shit out of luck. Unless you go to the syndicate and pick up a black market pistol. But that point if you're breaking the law make an open bolt SMG.


Well funmy thing is that in Poland there are no law about blackpowder weapons so if I wouls find a good modification...


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 19, 2018)

Must repress the urge to show shooting statistics with a strong correlation to how many firearms there are and how pro-gun the laws are...


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## BahgDaddy (Jan 19, 2018)

Black Burn said:


> I with I could own a gun to protect myself but having a gun here where I is harder than owning a villa, you have to go through psychic tests etc. They have to check your house, and after two eternities maybe police will give you license for a gun, but most of the times they don't give you it, and then you can buy a pistol, so you've to spend a lot of money and time to have license for it, and then you still can only buy a little pistol thst cost a lot probably, so it's not profitable...



Well, I'm not big on the NRA here trying to shove a gun in everyone's throat, but you should have the freedom to buy a gun if you want. 

Maybe not at your age, but certainly, say, 18 or so. 

Then again Japan's crime is super low, and they really do the same thing as you.


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## Black Burn (Jan 19, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Well, I'm not big on the NRA here trying to shove a gun in everyone's throat, but you should have the freedom to buy a gun if you want.
> 
> Maybe not at your age, but certainly, say, 18 or so.
> 
> Then again Japan's crime is super low, and they really do the same thing as you.


Maybe when older generations will die, and maybe then we will have it beacuse I know a lot of young poles that want gun owning rights, but I think that our goverement will not do it beacuse well our parlamentary system is thst stupid when some senators will want it and some maythem not, and they need to vote for it so.. And process of changing constitution in Poland is very hard... And when we could have a gun we probably just could win with our own shitty militsry xD


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 19, 2018)

The way Americans tout the 2nd amendment like it's a god given right is totally hilarious. A right is something you're born with. Tell me when you see a baby pop out with a gun in his hand then we can talk. It's just the dumbest thing. Yeah let's look back to soem 200+ yr old document for how our country should be today. *facedesk* There is so many reasons people laugh at Americans but the 2nd Amendment is one of the dumbest things. If you read it it says that it was made so the states could have a "well regulated militia". What the hell does some random hick owning a gun have to do with a well regulated militia? Ugh. Thank god I'll be leaving this dumb country soon so I won't have to hear about shootings every other day.


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## Black Burn (Jan 19, 2018)

Well when people can have guns, enrmy eill have more difficulties, beacuse the people can form their militias, and I could use a little pistol under my coat beacuse you don't always have time to call the police and wait for it ...


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## Black Burn (Jan 19, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Like the man said, this is not a political thread, guys. Please take that shit somewhere else...


Ok, sorry


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## Jarren (Jan 19, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Like the man said, this is not a political thread, guys. Please take that shit somewhere else...


As much as I love debating that stuff and love seeing it discussed, I am afraid it might get my thread locked. Perhaps we could start a thread dedicated to that topic? Though I don't think it'd last long.


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## Arwing Ace (Jan 19, 2018)

Jarren said:


> As much as I love debating that stuff and love seeing it discussed, I am afraid it might get my thread locked. Perhaps we could start a thread dedicated to that topic? Though I don't think it'd last long.



And that's one area where you and I differ. You know, I just hate trying to debate people on this issue, or really anything else political for that matter. I'll admit I've done it here on this forum, even though I probably shouldn't have, but I already have enough reasons to be sore as it is, and really, I feel I personally gain nothing positive from it.

If you want, I guess that's your call, but don't expect me to participate.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 19, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Like the man said, this is not a political thread, guys. Please take that shit somewhere else...


Funny. The supreme leader mod gets to control everything. You people and your stupid fascination with guns. I'm so sick of seeing shooting after shooting in my country and you guys are whining that there are dessenters among you.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 19, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Funny. The supreme leader mod gets to control everything. You people and your stupid fascination with guns. I'm so sick of seeing shooting after shooting in my country and you guys are whining that there are dessenters among you.


Look up the U.K.pistol crime statistics after they banned hand guns. In London you're more likely to get mugged at gun point than Chicago and Washington DC combined.

You want to start an anti gun thread go ahead. But please do us a favor and don't let the door hit your rear end on the way out. 

Banning hardly ever solves anything.

If you want to bad mouth this go start your thread. Keep this one on topic and keep petty bullshit politics to a minimum.


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## BahgDaddy (Jan 19, 2018)

Black Burn said:


> Maybe when older generations will die, and maybe then we will have it beacuse I know a lot of young poles that want gun owning rights, but I think that our goverement will not do it beacuse well our parlamentary system is thst stupid when some senators will want it and some maythem not, and they need to vote for it so.. And process of changing constitution in Poland is very hard... And when we could have a gun we probably just could win with our own shitty militsry xD



Yeah, our constitution is extremely hard to change as well. To only ways around it are a corrupt Senate and a corrupt Court, and we seem to have both that are willing to simply ignore the Constitution when it's convenient. 

The Senate simply makes laws however they want half the time, and the Supreme Court simply reinterprets the constitution. Next thing you know, it doesn't matter any more!

I know a lot of people don't like the Constitution anymore, but it is a very valuable document that serves a very important social and legal function.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 19, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Look up the U.K.pistol crime statistics after they banned hand guns. In London you're more likely to get mugged at gun point than Chicago and Washington DC combined.
> 
> You want to start an anti gun thread go ahead. But please do us a favor and don't let the door hit your rear end on the way out.
> 
> ...


Well when people are killed all the time because you guys love your guns so much and don't want to give up anythigg for the good of everyone else, you tend to get pissed. I'm so damn sick of seeing people die everyday in my country because you guys have a crazy love for guns.


----------



## Black Burn (Jan 19, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Well when people are killed all the time because you guys love your guns so much and don't want to give up anythigg for the good of everyone else, you tend to get pissed. I'm so damn sick of seeing people die everyday in my country because you guys have a crazy love for guns.


People use guns to kill people, guns don't kill on their own, and people will not stop dying even when there would be mo guns, in Poland there are no shooting but they are killing with other things, machetes, knifes, baseball bats...


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 19, 2018)

Black Burn said:


> People use guns to kill people, guns don't kill on their own, and people will not stop dying even when there would be mo guns, in Poland there are no shooting but they are killing with other things


Really hard to kill double digits when you just have a knife.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jan 19, 2018)

Black Burn said:


> People use guns to kill people, guns don't kill on their own, and people will not stop dying even when there would be mo guns, in Poland there are no shooting but they are killing with other things, machetes, knifes, baseball bats...



Guns don't kill on their own, they just make it really easy to kill a lot of people all at once.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 22, 2018)

Thinking this guy right here for a .17hmr...
Extra bonus that these are made in Canada


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jan 22, 2018)

Personally I don't want a gun, I want a tank.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 22, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Personally I don't want a gun, I want a tank.


British ferret  tanks can be bought for 12-14k in the us.
Daimler Ferret Scout Car Daimler - IronPlanet


Edit mentioned the wrong animal sorry.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Jan 22, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> British ferret  tanks can be bought for 12-14k in the us.
> Daimler Ferret Scout Car Daimler - IronPlanet
> 
> 
> Edit mentioned the wrong animal sorry.



Well if I ever have 14k sitting around doing nothing (hahaha), I'll pick myself up a tank.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 22, 2018)

Here, this one is perfect for this thread.

Guns, guns and more guns! <3


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 22, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Well when people are killed all the time because you guys love your guns so much and don't want to give up anythigg for the good of everyone else, you tend to get pissed. I'm so damn sick of seeing people die everyday in my country because you guys have a crazy love for guns.


Guns kill the same way your spoon make you fat, bombs blow themselves up, cars drive themselves into accidents and trucks drive themselves into dozens of people.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It's how you wield them. And some are irresponsible with them and shouldn't be allowed to use let alone keep them.

When EVERYONE have guns, you don't take away people's legal right to defend themselves. Criminals can and will get them regardless. They will simply have to hit the black market. You are simply making legal citizens incapable of defending themselves.

Also:


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Thinking this guy right here for a .17hmr...
> Extra bonus that these are made in Canada


Beautiful gun!

I promised pics of my 7.62x54r VEPR when it arrived.  It's a bit late b/c it's harder than you think to host images online that don't ultimately link back to Facebook or Google somehow  but I finally found an anonymous image hosting solution, so here's the gem of my gun collection:
















The wood is even more beautiful than I dared hope.  This was well worth the investment!


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Beautiful gun!
> 
> I promised pics of my 7.62x54r VEPR when it arrived.  It's a bit late b/c it's harder than you think to host images online that don't ultimately link back to Facebook or Google somehow  but I finally found an anonymous image hosting solution, so here's the gem of my gun collection:
> 
> ...



Very nice!!!

Take's AK mags I presume?

As for web hosting IMGUR is the way to go!!!


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Very nice!!!
> 
> Take's AK mags I presume?
> 
> As for web hosting IMGUR is the way to go!!!


Thanks!

No AK mags are 7.62x39.  This is 7.62x54r.  I have guns that shoot both rounds so here's the difference:



The smaller one's the AK round!

The7.62x54r  VEPR is a hunting/sniping gun.  The magazines that came with it are 5 round magazines.  They make 10 round magazines but they're banned for import so getting my hands on one is hard & expensive.  It's basically the civilian version of the Dragunov sniper rifle.  The stocks are different (I like the VEPR's stock better IMO) but both have inner workings that resemble a very beefed up AK.

Thanks for the tip on IMGUR.  I'll check it out!  I looked at Instagram but that's so tightly bound with Facebook you might as well just post to Facebook.


----------



## Black Burn (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Thanks!
> 
> No AK mags are 7.62x39.  This is 7.62x54r.  I have guns that shoot both rounds so here's the difference:
> 
> ...


Dragunov? Boris approves, basic part of gopnik's equipment


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Thanks!
> 
> No AK mags are 7.62x39.  This is 7.62x54r.  I have guns that shoot both rounds so here's the difference:
> 
> ...



Oops didn't see that it was 7.62x54R..lol

Cool!!!Probably prohibited in Canada...I'l have to check


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

Black Burn said:


> Dragunov? Boris approves, basic part of gopnik's equipment


Well my VEPR is Russian-made so I'm not surprised.  

Unfortunately, we're pissy at Russia (IMO for political reasons I won't go into here for fear of disrupting this thread any more than it already has been with political cross-talk) so no more Dragunovs, VEPRs or parts for either will be entering this country.    I was lucky to get my hands on this one before the ban went into effect!


----------



## Jarren (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Well my VEPR is Russian-made so I'm not surprised.
> 
> Unfortunately, we're pissy at Russia IMO (for political reasons I won't go into here for fear of disrupting this thread any more than it already has been with political cross-talk) so no more Dragunovs, VEPRs or parts for either will be entering this country.    I was lucky to get my hands on this one before the ban went into effect!


Ooooh, the wood is pretty on that one. Atlantic firearms sold a furniture set that approximated the dragunov look more closely until recently. 
That said, if you're looking for a dragunov lookalike, the PSL is a decent compromise. Length of pull is freaking tiny on them though. Got hands on with one at a local store recently and my eye rests against the scope glass if I shoulder it properly. Pretty gun though.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Thanks!
> 
> No AK mags are 7.62x39.  This is 7.62x54r.  I have guns that shoot both rounds so here's the difference:
> 
> ...


Congrats on the SVD in civilian's clothes

I love 7.62x54r it's one of my favorite rounds. I just wish I could find a good source of reloadable brass for it.

I have four mosins. (3 Soviet and a Chinese t-56 that's more or less a jungle gun.)

I've always been impressed by the Soviet guns. I fixed my ak with a hammer and not being gentle with it.

The mosin is the only gun I know with a bolt that you can use to disassemble itself.

All of my friends are terrified by my mosins. I'm Really accurate with them. Had to hit a raccoon at 75rds in a tree damn thing kept on killing our chicks and killed a really good hen. Well two 7.62x54rs in a 3 inch groping from a 1943r mosin that's been left untouched. (Also it is kind of haunted....) using iron sights.

I have a 1939 izzy with Tula receiver that I went ballistic on. Peep sight shimming stained the wood black, found a copper riveted foreguard, and I put on a smiths sight target sight and his dual stage trigger.

I have a 1937 izzy with no import marks that I full heartedly believe was a war take back. It has a Remington bolt that was bent down and it shows it's age. There's surface rust and it was sportized. The original stock and barrel were cut down, but it was recrowned and I got it for 99 dollars. Things a fucking tack driver. I added in timney trigger which gives it a quick pull of the trigger.


One of  The guns on my wishlist is a rifle in 45 lc


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Congrats on the SVD in civilian's clothes
> 
> I love 7.62x54r it's one of my favorite rounds. I just wish I could find a good source of reloadable brass for it.
> 
> ...


VERY nice! Yeah I love the Soviet guns too. When I “inherited” my father’s AR-15, I was flabbergasted by some of the design decisions.  Why does the gas vent go through the bolt carrier group?! That makes that part, arguably the most critical part, a NIGHTMARE to clean!  Typical American over-engineered crap solution IMO.

The AK, on the other hand, is a snap to clean!  Nothing beats Russian simplicity!

*my father is still alive but he wanted to transfer the AK into my name while doing so was still legal.


----------



## Black Burn (Jan 22, 2018)

i love russian and communist military equipment too, but I don't have any and probably never will, welp I have airsoft


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 22, 2018)

Yeah I really wish I could have gotten a TT clone in 9mm, instead I built a glock. Still feel like the TT clone would hold up better though...

Realistically I would love a Luger or a 9mm revolver. I've had thoughts of making one using a 357 magnum barrel and modifying a steel framed Remington clone. Remove the barrel drill holes for pins. See what can be done about the cylinder. Probably cut it down for 9mm. Get a stack of washers weld drill a hole take out hammer put a weld on it. Cut the frame to fit the new cylinder weld it up. Heat it up quench it anneal for four hours at 400 degrees take out  hammer in barrel assemble and see what happens.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Mmm, I would somewhat disagree with you on that. I've never found the AR overly difficult to clean, except around the chamber area. But I clean diligently after every range session, and typically don't put more than maybe 5 or 6 mags through it at a time. On the other hand, the thing I dislike about cleaning the AK is trying to scrub carbon out of the inside of the rear sight block after shooting a few mags worth of dirty Russian ammo.
> 
> I am quite the AK aficionado though. Right now there's no other Kalashnikov variant I'd love to get my hands on more than an Arsenal SLR-107FR. Closest thing you can get to an AK-103.


Well I must have a crap AR then. I’ve never found scrubbing out the carbon of my AK to be all that hard.  

Yeah my AK is a cheapo Century Arms one. For all their bad reputation mine hasn’t given me problems, though I’ve only put 400 rounds through it so far.


----------



## KiokuChan (Jan 22, 2018)

I have a hand gun, and sort of have a shot gun. My dad got it for me but I think it's kind of his for the time being. I've done both range shooting and sporting clays. I suck though.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Well I must have a crap AR then. I’ve never found scrubbing out the carbon of my AK to be all that hard.
> 
> Yeah my AK is a cheapo Century Arms one. For all their bad reputation mine hasn’t given me problems, though I’ve only put 400 rounds through it so far.



Nothing necessarily wrong with a Century gun, as long as it's put together right. And they've shown a lot of improvement with their quality control in recent years. I'd like to pick up a new WASR-10, just because I want an AKM, and because I have a nice Polish laminated wood stock set that I'd like to put on one. Though I hear the current WASRs are actually being manufactured in Romania from all new parts now. Century doesn't build them from imported surplus kits anymore, as far as I know.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

KiokuChan said:


> I have a hand gun, and sort of have a shot gun. My dad got it for me but I think it's kind of his for the time being. I've done both range shooting and sporting clays. I suck though.


Everyone sucks at first. Keep practicing!


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Nothing necessarily wrong with a Century gun, as long as it's put together right. And they've shown a lot of improvement with their quality control in recent years. I'd like to pick up a new WASR-10, just because I want an AKM, and because I have a nice Polish laminated wood stock set that I'd like to put on one. Though I hear the current WASRs are actually being manufactured in Romania from all new parts now. Century doesn't build them from imported surplus kits anymore, as far as I know.


That explains a lot. Mine is pretty new.


----------



## Black Burn (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Everyone sucks at first. Keep practicing!


Yeah I'll practi.. Oooohhh I forgot


----------



## KiokuChan (Jan 22, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Everyone sucks at first. Keep practicing!


Thank you!


----------



## striker479 (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm a firearm owner and enthusist within the fandom not only as a hobby but due to my job.
Currently in my inventory.
Bulgarian Ak74 5.45x39
1903A3 Springfield
7 Mosin Nagants ranging between 1894 and 1942 in age
IWI Jericho 941 9mm
Lebel Berthier
No 4 MK1 Savage Enfield
Venezuelan FN49 7mm
T99 Arisaka
VZ52 7.62x45
T38 Carbine Arisaka
Glock 19
1891/11 Schmidt Rubin

One Mosin Nagant I have was specifically used by the Okhrana to protect the Russian Tzar Nicholas and the Romanov family.


----------



## Black Burn (Jan 22, 2018)

*sighs*


----------



## Jarren (Jan 22, 2018)

striker479 said:


> I'm a firearm owner and enthusist within the fandom not only as a hobby but due to my job.
> Currently in my inventory.
> Bulgarian Ak74 5.45x39
> 1903A3 Springfield
> ...


Okay a few questions: 
How'd you figure out who was issued that particular Mosin? Special markings or something on it? Because that's actually really cool. Most of the material I've read says it's basically impossible to trace where most Russian mosins were sent/who used them with a few notable exceptions (Finnish guns, however, are actually well documented, from what I hear). Also, where did you manage to find it?

Second, have you had any problems with the FN49 you've got? I've got one of the Luxembourg contract guns and it seems to have a problem with reliable ejection.

Third, is that Springfield of yours one of the "Exploding" low serial number models or a later production?

Nice collection by the way. You have some very good taste.


----------



## striker479 (Jan 22, 2018)

The Mosin is stamped Oxp which after extensive research shows it belonged to a police/guard outfit known as the Okhrana. I've only found 6 others with the stamp. I literally picked it out of a crate of mosin Nagants. The 1903 is a National Ordnance which I'm restoring and it has mainly Remington parts cept the receiver. I haven't shot my FN49 but there are issues documented of firing pins snapping. With yours it sounds like it's a gas issue. The rifle gas system hasn't been adjusted to the ammo you're using. There is a difference between military ball and commercial loads as with the type of bullet used which all effect the gas system.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 22, 2018)

striker479 said:


> The Mosin is stamped Oxp which after extensive research shows it belonged to a police/guard outfit known as the Okhrana. I've only found 6 others with the stamp. I literally picked it out of a crate of mosin Nagants..


Now that's a hell of a collector's item if ever I did hear of one.


striker479 said:


> With yours it sounds like it's a gas issue. The rifle gas system hasn't been adjusted to the ammo you're using. There is a difference between military ball and commercial loads as with the type of bullet used which all effect the gas system.


That was the fix I eventually worked out. Last person to shoot it has basically closed the gas vent entirely so everything was hitting the piston. The extractor ripped little chunks off the cases more often than not rather than doing it's job. Plus I was shooting Privi hunting loads, so those are loaded a bit hot to begin with. Opened up the gas system and that's mostly fixed the problem. Had the pleasure of running into the previous owner by chance and asked him about it. Claimed he had never fired the thing in 20ish years of owning it. So either he's a liar or whoever owned it before him was shooting military loads/really light handloads. Just figured I'd ask in case there were some issue with the rifles as a whole that you were privy to.


----------



## striker479 (Jan 22, 2018)

The FN49s tend to snap firing pins a lot and if you don't adjust the gas system it can give problems. The fix for the firing pins is switch from a 1 piece to a 2 piece.


----------



## Stealtheart (Jan 22, 2018)

I own a Benelli Supernova shotgun, Henry Goldenboy and a custom built AR-15. I hope to own a Colt Trooper and 1911 .45 someday.
Love to go up in the woods on the mountains near my dad's place north of Vancouver, Washington and blast shit.
Sadly Iowa doesn't have the same opportunity so I'm stuck to ranges at home. Even worse I'm in the Navy now so I have no time to see my babies. :'(


----------



## Telnac (Jan 22, 2018)

Stealtheart said:


> I own a Benelli Supernova shotgun, Henry Goldenboy and a custom built AR-15. I hope to own a Colt Trooper and 1911 .45 someday.
> Love to go up in the woods on the mountains near my dad's place north of Vancouver, Washington and blast shit.
> Sadly Iowa doesn't have the same opportunity so I'm stuck to ranges at home. Even worse I'm in the Navy now so I have no time to see my babies. :'(


Thank you for your service!


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 22, 2018)

I always wanted a pre 1898 mosin.

Gods just having a Remington bolt handle  on my 1937 and a early arrow izzy trigger on the 1943 makes me wonder.

Always wanted a hex head. A non FFL mosin would be a dream.


----------



## striker479 (Jan 23, 2018)

The Mosin Nagants I do have by date and features

1894 Chatellerault Austro-Hugarian Captured
1895/1922/47/53 Izhevsk Imperial Guard
1925 Tula
1928 Izhevsk Spliced Stock
1934 Tula Spanish Civil War
1942 Izhevsk
1942 Izhevsk Ex Sniper Splice Stock

I used to have a M91 dragoon that was captured by the German Army during World War 1 then used by the Finns during their war for independence. Other Mosins I had were a 1934 M28/30, 1944 M39 VKT, 1944 Izhevsk Sniper, a couple Hungarian M44s and a Russian Izhevsk m44. Been using them them to trade in and up to what I have now as with selling a few to pay for bills cause life.

Currently I have a Remington M91 on layaway that I'm paying on.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 23, 2018)

striker479 said:


> The Mosin Nagants I do have by date and features
> 
> 1894 Chatellerault Austro-Hugarian Captured
> 1895/1922/47/53 Izhevsk Imperial Guard
> ...


That chatellerautlt would be a dream gun of mine.

I'd also kill for. Nagant revolver. There's one up for sale at a local gun range. But I just can't justify the 400 dollar price tag


----------



## striker479 (Jan 23, 2018)

Look around at communities outside of where a you're at. The ones ive seen around the Ozarks have been price out around 300. One shop up north has been making silencers for them. A couple sites I frequent is Gunbroker and Armslist.


----------



## Stealtheart (Jan 23, 2018)

Oh man if I had the money my house would be a historical armory.


----------



## Black Burn (Jan 23, 2018)

Stealtheart said:


> Oh man if I had the money my house would be a historical armory.


Same, but I need also rights to have a gun


----------



## striker479 (Jan 23, 2018)

Stealtheart said:


> Oh man if I had the money my house would be a historical armory.



I'm currently in the process of turning my office in my home into a small museum of war memorabilia from ww1, ww2, Korea, and of East German stuff before the Berlin Wall fell.


----------



## Stealtheart (Jan 23, 2018)

striker479 said:


> I'm currently in the process of turning my office in my home into a small museum of war memorabilia from ww1, ww2, Korea, and of East German stuff before the Berlin Wall fell.


That's how my room was before I shipped out. Though my collection was mainly DDR and WWII stuff. 
Lots of books from the 19th and early 20th Century as well.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 23, 2018)

My room is mostly filled with antiques would like to get a Soviet flag to hang inside my gun case. Considering 80% of my collection is Soviet.

Still surprised nobody else has made a gas seal revolver. I mean if you rebate the cylinder to slide over the forcing cone it should in theory do the same thing as the ammo expanding in the Nagant revolver.

Yes my brain randomly tries to figure out solutions to problems that don't exist.

Really wish I could also get a Webley revolver. The 45 acp one is a curious oddity I like the thoughts of.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

@Shane McNair 

Sigh....A Canadian dealer up here has Russian SKS's for $209CDN/168USD with free shipping...

Talk me out of it


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Talk me out of it



For that kind of money?


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> For that kind of money?




Ordered


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Ordered



Great!

I envy the fact that you can get an SKS up there for that kind of money.

Hell, down here the Norincos are going for _at least _$350 nowadays. And usually, guys are trying to sell them for 4-500.  It's bullshit.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Great!
> 
> I envy the fact that you can get an SKS up there for that kind of money.
> 
> Hell, down here the Norincos are going for _at least _$350 nowadays. And usually, guys are trying to sell them for 4-500.  It's bullshit.



Dude that blows...


I'll sell you mine
250 USD


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Dude that blows...
> 
> I'll sell you mine
> 250 USD



I wish...

That's what happens when Chinese SKS imports have been banned for almost a quarter century. You end up with a dwindling supply and rising prices. I've gone to pawn shops and seen bubba'd SKSs for over $400. No thanks. If I'm going to pay anything in that range, it has to be Russian and it better be pristine.

I wish I had a time machine. I'd go back to 1993, when they were selling new for $80 a piece, or $130 with a tin of ammo, a chest rig, stripper clips, and all the other accoutrements.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I wish...
> 
> That's what happens when Chinese SKS imports have been banned for almost a quarter century. You end up with a dwindling supply and rising prices. I've gone to pawn shops and seen bubba'd SKSs for over $400. No thanks. If I'm going to pay anything in that range, it has to be Russian and it better be pristine.
> 
> I wish I had a time machine. I'd go back to 1993, when they were selling new for $80 a piece, or $130 with a tin of ammo, a chest rig, stripper clips, and all the other accoutrements.



Don't worry our supply is drying up too,and once there gone there gone..

They got over 100 in stock and they'll try to grant your preference...

I asked for a chrome lined laminate...I've had the dark stained hardwood stock version,I want a light colored laminate...

Like this one:


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Don't our supply is drying up too,and once there gone there gone..
> 
> They got over 100 in stock and they'll try to grant your preference...
> 
> ...



That's a beautiful carbine. 

Dammit, this is really making me want another SKS now. I've already been having some passive thoughts about it lately. If I see one at the club gun show this next weekend, I might just have to pick it up if the price is right. I don't care what it is, Russian, Chinese, Yugoslavian, just as long as it's in nice shape and reasonably priced.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 23, 2018)

I wish I could have gotten a Nagant revolver for 99 dollars... but I was too young


----------



## Jarren (Jan 23, 2018)

Guys.... seeing and SKS at that price makes me horrifically sad. I haven't seen one for under 350 in years ;_;
Sucks that they can't ship over the border to us. Damned Norinco import ban.

That said, I did pick one up from a friend for 250 a while back, but I would love to get my hands on another. Maybe someday...


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Don't worry our supply is drying up too,and once there gone there gone..



But you guys are still getting newly manufactured Norincos, aren't you?


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> But you guys are still getting newly manufactured Norincos, aren't you?



Yup we sure are,as far as I know...


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

I'll post pics as soon as I get it in and clean the 2 metric tons of cosmoline off it


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 23, 2018)

www.midwayusa.com: SGM Tactical Mag Vepr 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian - MPN: SGMT76254R

Who owns the vepr


----------



## Jarren (Jan 23, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> www.midwayusa.com: SGM Tactical Mag Vepr 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian - MPN: SGMT76254R
> 
> Who owns the vepr


@Telnac I think you've been summoned.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> I'll post pics as soon as I get it in and clean the 2 metric tons of cosmoline off it



Yeah, that cosmoline is nasty shit to deal with. Not fun.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Yeah, that cosmoline is nasty shit to deal with. Not fun.



It's so stubborn to get off,you need decreasing agent to do it...

Last one took me two hours


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 23, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> It's so stubborn to get off,you need decreasing agent to do it...
> 
> Last one took me two hours



How do you go about it? If I was going to undertake that, I'd probably get a 55 gal barrel, dump in a few gallons of mineral spirits, and let the rifle soak for a few days. Then remove the stock and repeat as necessary.

Also, make sure the firing pin channel is clear and the firing pin moves freely. I've heard of SKS firing pins getting stuck because of lingering cosmoline in the bolt and slamfires occurring as a result.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> How do you go about it? If I was going to undertake that, I'd probably get a 55 gal barrel, dump in a few gallons of mineral spirits, and let the rifle soak for a few days. Then remove the stock and repeat as necessary.



Decreasing agent and lot and lots of paper towel

Oh and don't forget about time you'll never get back,can't forget about that...lmao


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

Pledge actually works good for the wood btw...
There was another reason I wanted a laminate,less absorption...


----------



## Telnac (Jan 23, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> www.midwayusa.com: SGM Tactical Mag Vepr 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian - MPN: SGMT76254R
> 
> Who owns the vepr


Squeeee!!!!

THANK YOU!!!

Ordered 2 of ‘em.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 23, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Squeeee!!!!
> 
> THANK YOU!!!
> 
> Ordered 2 of ‘em.


Now does anybody know a source of 7.62x54r brass?! I tried using the steel cases yet they won't chamber again.  So I'm off to hunt for brass issue is nobody wants it? yet its in high demand. GO FUCKING FIGURE.

I really need reloadable brass for a 7.62x54r. I can find the freaking revolver ammo which is 7.62x38r and its apparently cheaper than dirt to reload... (Brain is tempted by tula at that shooting range... MUST NOT GIVE IN!!!!)


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 23, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Now does anybody know a source of 7.62x54r brass?! I tried using the steel cases yet they won't chamber again.  So I'm off to hunt for brass issue is nobody wants it? yet its in high demand. GO FUCKING FIGURE.
> 
> I really need reloadable brass for a 7.62x54r. I can find the freaking revolver ammo which is 7.62x38r and its apparently cheaper than dirt to reload... (Brain is tempted by tula at that shooting range... MUST NOT GIVE IN!!!!)



I don't know if this is a good price or not...

www.grafs.com: 7.62x54R Russian - Rifle Brass - Metallic Reloading - Graf & Sons


----------



## Telnac (Jan 23, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Now does anybody know a source of 7.62x54r brass?! I tried using the steel cases yet they won't chamber again.  So I'm off to hunt for brass issue is nobody wants it? yet its in high demand. GO FUCKING FIGURE.
> 
> I really need reloadable brass for a 7.62x54r. I can find the freaking revolver ammo which is 7.62x38r and its apparently cheaper than dirt to reload... (Brain is tempted by tula at that shooting range... MUST NOT GIVE IN!!!!)


Sorry I don’t reload. I shoot the steel case stuff unless I go to an indoor range, which is when I shoot their ammo which is brass but they keep the cases.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 24, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> I don't know if this is a good price or not...
> 
> www.grafs.com: 7.62x54R Russian - Rifle Brass - Metallic Reloading - Graf & Sons


Its the highest price around. Unfornately they may have me by my furry nutsack in this situation. I found a cheaper source thats used once fired brass. 25 rounds for 16.

Every place is sold out. I am considering buying ammo online for the brass.

if not at least I can reshape 30-06 into mauser ammo.  I have horded mosin ammo for years now. Still I'd like to be able to make bullets for it.

Would still love a rifle in 45lc.

An uberti revolving carbine would be great.





*drools*


----------



## striker479 (Jan 24, 2018)

I deal with cosmoline by wiping it off with a rag then save the rag for later if the rag is completely coated in the stuff. After using the rifle I then I reuse the cosmoline when I put the rifle back into storage or in a display case to keep it from rusting. Just a quick wipe to get a thin coating on it. Its nasty stuff but it does the job in preserving the milsurps.

If you guys are looking for brass 54r you can check out Gunbroker as with ammoseek. I've been shooting the Albanian brass in my 91/30s with pretty good groupings. They're Berdan primed though. The best commercial reloadable brass case I know of is the Seller & Bellot Red Box 54r. Shooters been getting just under 1 MOA out of Mosins and PSLs with it.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 24, 2018)

It is sad that the military surplus has dried up. Won't get into reasons why, but I'll just say of course when I think of Saturday night specials I think of gang bangers doing drive by's woth ww2 bolt action rifles,

Really miss being able to go pick up a mosin from a store and having choice.


There's a scoped mosin at a pawn shop for 200 that's been taunting me for ages.


----------



## striker479 (Jan 24, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> It is sad that the military surplus has dried up. Won't get into reasons why, but I'll just say of course when I think of Saturday night specials I think of gang bangers doing drive by's woth ww2 bolt action rifles,
> 
> Really miss being able to go pick up a mosin from a store and having choice.
> 
> ...



Getting on good terms with the dealers has helped in me getting a steady supply of milsurp ammo and rifles. You can do the option of finding what you want online and have it shipped to your closest FFL. If you put in for a Class III Curio FFL you can have it shipped to your doorstep. With it you can set up accounts with distributors and not have to pay "Retail" price. The form costs I think between $50 to $100 and a wait time of around a few months to get things cleared by the BATF.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 24, 2018)

My Mosin has been sans cosmoline since WWII, sitting in my grandfather’s closet for nearly 70 years. When I inherited it I took it to a gunsmith to have it restored to firing condition. Gunsmith did a basic cleaning, replaced gunked up WWII lubricant with modern stuff, test fired it and said it was good to go. *shrugs*


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 24, 2018)

I just wiped down the stock of the only mosin I had to deal with cleaned out the bolt then I just shot ten rounds through it in the middle of winter. 10 degrees prone in the snow turning empty Mountain Dew cans into rockets.

Let heat naturally leak out the stuff then I dissembled her for a cleaning. There's still evidence of cosmoline in the wood. The only way to remove that is to apply heat to it. But you might mess up the shellac finish. My 1939 had spotty finish so I stripped it using non chlorinated break cleaner let it soak for a bit.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 24, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Very nice!!!
> 
> Take's AK mags I presume?
> 
> As for web hosting IMGUR is the way to go!!!


Oy. Tried Imgur. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope!

I ask for one and only one thing from an image hosting site: the “share” option shares the URL of the image. NOTHING else. Imgur doesn’t do that.

Anyway, here is my mosin after 70+ yesrs w/o cosmolime:


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 24, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Oy. Tried Imgur. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope!
> 
> I ask for one and only one thing from an image hosting site: the “share” option shares the URL of the image. NOTHING else. Imgur doesn’t do that.
> 
> Anyway, here is my mosin after 70+ yesrs w/o cosmolime:


Ohhh laminate stock. What year is she? 

I nearly bought a 1932 Tula hexhead in a double crossbar laminate stock it was a toss up between the t-56 and the hex head... I picked t56 a dream mosin would be a hexhead modified to have a carbine bayonet on it


----------



## Telnac (Jan 24, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Ohhh laminate stock. What year is she?
> 
> I nearly bought a 1932 Tula hexhead in a double crossbar laminate stock it was a toss up between the t-56 and the hex head... I picked t56 a dream mosin would be a hexhead modified to have a carbine bayonet on it


1944


----------



## striker479 (Jan 24, 2018)

For a funny bit of history and irony. The country of Isreal used captured Nazi K98s to free and protect their county. The same weapons used against them before and during ww2.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 24, 2018)

striker479 said:


> For a funny bit of history and irony. The country of Isreal used captured Nazi K98s to free and protect their county. The same weapons used against them before and during ww2.


Lets face it the nazi's were good at engineering death. Even their last ditch weapons were brilliantly made.
www.forgottenweapons.com: RIA: Spreewerke VG-2





This is one of my favorite examples. Its a mauser clone made from a stamped sheet receiver using Luftwaffe aircraft MG barrels that were useless as making airplanes was impossible/ idiotic.

This also proves me that a basic construction will work for making a bolt action using pipe. Main thing is having a solid locking lug surface and a good headspace.

I have a collection of parts and I do hope to build a 7.62x39 bolt action that takes ak mags that is patterned off of the Spreewerke VG 2


----------



## striker479 (Jan 24, 2018)

Take a peek at the firearms that the Vietcong used and fashioned together in the tunnels and sheds. Some are literally a pipe, a nail, a bit of wood, duct tape, and bailing wire.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 24, 2018)

striker479 said:


> Take a peek at the firearms that the Vietcong used and fashioned together in the tunnels and sheds. Some are literally a pipe, a nail, a bit of wood, duct tape, and bailing wire.


yeah zip guns don't really interest me. You can make slam fire shotguns with ease. I'm more of a homebrew engineering type of fellow. Seeing what people are able to make is amazing. Even the stuff you see from third world nations with local gunsmiths a can be amazing.

I'd love to make a rifling machine. That would open up so many possibilities.


----------



## Old Fashioned (Jan 25, 2018)

This might be a bit unorthodox, but do you guys have any idea on what this might be? The tag said it is a gun sight, but I'm not entirely sure. The only other info I've found is that it was made by Bausch and Lomb.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 25, 2018)

Looks like something from an AA gun or field gun. Either way, that's a stupid serious piece of aiming hardware.


----------



## Old Fashioned (Jan 25, 2018)

Looking at it again, I think you're right, it looks like it's missing a piece. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 25, 2018)

Old Fashioned said:


> Looking at it again, I think you're right, it looks like it's missing a piece. Thanks for the help.


Looking at it, you've also got it somewhat upside down. Orient it so that the numbers are all right-side-up and take a picture of that. That might give me a better idea of what I'm looking at. Bausch and Lomb is an eyeglass and optics company that got a navy contract in the second world war so I think it's something from a naval gun or an AA emplacement. Any other markings on it apart from Bausch and Lomb?


----------



## Old Fashioned (Jan 25, 2018)

There are some crude die marks or casting marks on the height adjust which I believe are UG-CE-C, but other than the B&L logo there are no other markings that I've noticed.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 25, 2018)

Well, been searching for 20ish minutes. Found a few guns that look like they've got similar equipment, but can't find anything specific to Bausch and Lomb. Aw well. Where'd you get it from?


----------



## Old Fashioned (Jan 25, 2018)

A local flee market, there were two of them, but just bought the one. I figured it'd make a good present for my oldest brother.

Edit: It's part of some kind of projector. lol


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 26, 2018)

I have a hunger for a 1911 .45

What do you gents recommend within reason?.
Les Bar,Kimber ect do not apply


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 26, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> I have a hunger for a 1911 .45
> 
> What do you gents recommend within reason?.
> Les Bar,Kimber ect do not apply


Original one from ww2 or ww1.

I'd love to get my hands on a Russian contract one.

The older ones are tighter and more tough. Avoid an aluminum frame. I don't trust them. Granted they should be fine it's just my brain says steel riding on aluminum rails isn't going to last long. And I doubt the companies are using the alloy FEG uses to make it last longer.

Look for an old one that's a bit dinged up with cracked guards that's obviously old. You can replace grips. Check the barrel and rifling.

I've seen somebody jiggle the slide of a modern Springfield and there's a lot of slack versus a marine issue one from one of the wars before Vietnam. That gun was beat to fuck yet was tighter than the lips of a 1930s mob boss' left hand man.

Do research these things are pricey as piss.thats why I say get a military one.

www.google.com: Army Expected to Sell Off Thousands of Surplus 1911 Pistols


Might be easier than you think now! Start saving money


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 27, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Well guys, this morning I broke down and succumbed to temptation...
> 
> 
> View attachment 27083
> ...



Very very nice!


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 27, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Very very nice!



Somehow I just _knew _I was going to run into one for the right price.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 27, 2018)

Hope mine looks half as good as that one!!

Mine still hasn't even shipped yet


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 27, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Hope mine looks half as good as that one!!
> 
> Mine still hasn't even shipped yet



The suspense is too much, huh? I'm looking forward to seeing it. 

Mine has all matching numbers too, so far as I can see.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 27, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Well guys, this morning I broke down and succumbed to temptation...
> 
> 
> View attachment 27083
> ...


Even still in the cosmoline, that's a pretty Yugo. I like the blade bayonet more than the spike on my Norinco.


----------



## Arwing Ace (Jan 27, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Even still in the cosmoline, that's a pretty Yugo. I like the blade bayonet more than the spike on my Norinco.



I prefer them too. For some reason I've always liked the contour of the stock around the bayonet recess on the blade-type rifles. It's just more pleasing to my eye.

Of the SKSs I've encountered, I think the Yugos are my favorite. They just seem more refined and polished than the Russian and Chinese ones. They have a touch of European craftsmanship.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 28, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I prefer them too. For some reason I've always liked the contour of the stock around the bayonet recess on the blade-type rifles. It's just more pleasing to my eye.
> 
> Of the SKSs I've encountered, I think the Yugos are my favorite. They just seem more refined and polished than the Russian and Chinese ones. They have a touch of European craftsmanship.


Even my yugo underfolder ak is nice. Except for the receiver I hammered together. Seems to be holding up however.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 28, 2018)

I don't really like guns but I think going here would be the best place to ask this question. Why did the M1 Garand have to be given the bite-your-finger feature? Here's a video that shows what I'm confused about.


----------



## Jarren (Jan 28, 2018)

I honestly don't know that if that "feature" was a conscious decision or just something that they didn't think was worth addressing at the time. I think it's just some hot of an ergonomics oversight. Once the follower is pushed down there's nothing to stop the bolt from sliding forward at the lightest provocation. This can be pretty easily avoided by holding back the charging handle while loading a new clothes, but sometimes people fumble it or forget when under constraint and get garand thumb for their trouble. It is kinda an obnoxious thing to worry about though.
Edit: lol, didn't watch the video first and Ian basically said what I did. Like I said, I just think it was something they didn't feel was worth fixing as long as there was a consistent way to avoid it.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 28, 2018)

Jarren said:


> I honestly don't know that if that "feature" was a conscious decision or just something that they didn't think was worth addressing at the time. I think it's just some hot of an ergonomics oversight. Once the follower is pushed down there's nothing to stop the bolt from sliding forward at the lightest provocation. This can be pretty easily avoided by holding back the charging handle while loading a new clothes, but sometimes people fumble it or forget when under constraint and get garand thumb for their trouble. It is kinda an obnoxious thing to worry about though.
> Edit: lol, didn't watch the video first and Ian basically said what I did. Like I said, I just think it was something they didn't feel was worth fixing as long as there was a consistent way to avoid it.


Okay. Thanks for the explanation. I just found it quite confusing that they'd not have something to stop it from slamming down on your finger.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 29, 2018)

I got bit pretty badly by my Beretta 92FS when I made the noob mistake of grabbing the front of the slide rather than the rear of the slide to rack it after first loading the magazine. The fleshy part under your thumb fits quite nicely into the ejector port just before you let go of the slide. 

*OW!* 

That’s a painful mistake I won’t be making again!


----------



## Jarren (Jan 29, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I got bit pretty badly by my Beretta 92FS when I made the noob mistake of grabbing the front of the slide rather than the rear of the slide to rack it after first loading the magazine. The fleshy part under your thumb fits quite nicely into the ejector port just before you let go of the slide.
> 
> *OW!*
> 
> That’s a painful mistake I won’t be making again!


*_CHOMP_!*


----------



## Telnac (Jan 30, 2018)

VEPR 10rd 7.62x54r magazine arrived today. I was surprised how big it is!






My rifle with the mag in place:


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Jan 31, 2018)

Telnac said:


> VEPR 10rd 7.62x54r magazine arrived today. I was surprised how big it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're welcome 


I ported the barrel of my 45 LC revolver last weekend. Now I am debating on if I should scope it for hunting. I going to take it deer hunting. The iron sights on it are iffy at best they're hard to see with. 

Anybody know of any good yet cheap handgun scopes?


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 1, 2018)

Telnac said:


> VEPR 10rd 7.62x54r magazine arrived today. I was surprised how big it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Here I am still waiting for confirmation of shipping of sks ordered almost 2 weeks ago...

Looks awesome
Nothing beats higher capacity


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 1, 2018)

Here's some pictures of the ported barrel. Not bad at all considering I have the not correct tools for such a job.

Should help with the tiny amount of muzzle flip. My ported glock is really enjoyable to shoot.

But this revolver takes the cake in power. Especially with military black powder 45 colts round. Cast bullet 255 grain bullet 30 grains of powder.  It's devastating.


 
Military reload. 30 grains black powder. Hardly any recoil.


 
And then you have these guys. These guys kick like mules. 30 grains black powder two lead .452 balls in a single case compressed.
So yes two projectiles one case. Made these for hunting. They start losing accuracy at 50 yards.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 1, 2018)

Nice!


----------



## Kiaara (Feb 1, 2018)

I don't have a firearm but I do have a bow

This is what it looks like


----------



## Jarren (Feb 1, 2018)

So, I was gonna go pick up an AKM today, but then I looked at my finances and realized I really should start being a bit less impulsive until I get my next paycheck 
Anywho, kalashnikov  suggestions?


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 1, 2018)

www.classicfirearms.com: Hungarian AMD 65 AK-47 Type 7.62x39 Semi-Auto Hi-Cap Rifle w/ Original Polymer Grips
One of these mother fuckers.





They also sell parts kit as well. If you want to build one. I was lucky and managed to score the last Zastava underfolding part kit right before the Las vegas shooting happened. My gut was screaming at me to BUY IT NOW so I did. Next thing I know they're gone.

Making the receiver wasn't hard. Just welding on the rails was a pain as pathetic as it is for a welder by trade I have no working welders that can do sheet metal. So thats why it looks like it was pounded together in an afghan cave... because for the most part it was.

Also I found a scope mount for a pistol. Its 1 inch stainless steel or brushed finish (Owner isn't sure wtf its for but its cheap!) It has a flat base that is slightly rounded on the inside.... screw it I'll show picture instead.











1 inch size rings. 

I have an idea of instead of getting a rifle scope its something I've wanted to do for other guns. I want to test a theory of a video game which everybody complains about.  I can see the benefits of such a sight. It's crude, but if done right could be fully adjustable  and give me a sight picture of my favorite scope reticle of all time. Nobody makes the bloody things anymore!


----------



## Rochat (Feb 1, 2018)

Guns and furries? Is this heaven?


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 1, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Guns and furries? Is this heaven?


You I like you. Also I recognize your icon


----------



## Telnac (Feb 2, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Guns and furries? Is this heaven?


We need to organize a fur con event where we meet at a gun range


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 2, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> You're quite the tinkerer, aren't you?





Shane McNair said:


> A Russian PU 91/30 scope?


Yupe that reticle is a German Post Number 1 an old reticle style that nobody repops. Issue is original scopes are hard to come by, and repops don't last long. Skinny scope lines can disappear quickly. I'm used to fixed magnification scopes. The scope on my ak is a 4x fixed.
My thoughts are to take a tube and make the same 'Reflex' sight you see in the game fallout 4. An idea that many complained about in that game, yet I see value in it. Each part of the reticle would be adjustable for windage and elevation and once you get it dialed in it'd be great for POA since unlike a scope theres no issues with eye relief as well as no chances of fogging or getting destroyed by recoil, etc, etc. Also it wouldn't reveal your location in a stand. Told my friend about my idea and he thinks it'd be great.

Yupe. Most people can't think outside of the box. I lost the box years ago. I theorize it is 100 miles away.. somewhere. Not really in a rush to find it. 

One the things I'd love to do is convert a remington 1858 clone into a shooting 9mm luger. An odd task, but I figured out an easy way to do so.. Well EASY as defined by me a tinkerer. Get a .357 magnum barrel. Remove blackpowder barrel sell on ebay for profit on the .357 magnum barrel (literally they're dirt cheap). Take the BP cylinder drill out the holes completely through then grind them flush. Weld up some washers in a stack laminate style. drill a hole in the centre top remove hammer drill a hole thread stick in a headless screw. This would get your mechanism basics. Now the fun part getting 9mm to fit in a .451 hole. You'd need to find a piece of steel piping that would fit in there to shim it. Even if its thicker and you need to drill it out that'd be fine. Once the cylinder is set up you'd align the .357 magnum barrel drill two holes and pin it.

Oh right and I'd use a coal forge to heat up the stripped frame till its red hot then dunk it in oil then anneal it at 400 degrees for 4 hours.  That should temper it nicely. Of course doing this AFTER you drill your holes for everything would be best.

The result would be a 9m luger single short barrel action revolver. Something I want but doesn't exist.

Yeah I'm a tinkerer. Also my easy and simple are most people's "Um wait what?"

I have an issue where if I look at something my brain can disassemble it and see it how it works. Literally blowing out like a parts diagram.  I've repaired everything from my cars to laptops.

It's easy taking something apart. Putting it back together... welp!  that's where the luck- I mean true skill and talent comes in. Yes talent. Not sheer dumb luck. ITs all 100% according to plan. I so meant for that happen.

Thinking about getting my conceal and carry.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 2, 2018)

Telnac said:


> We need to organize a fur con event where we meet at a gun range


I'll make the bullets!


----------



## BahgDaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Guns and furries? Is this heaven?



Oh look, someone with a vintage furry porno as his avatar. Come a little closer...


----------



## Rochat (Feb 2, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Oh look, someone with a vintage furry porno as his avatar. Come a little closer...


I'm sorry, I don't follow?


----------



## striker479 (Feb 2, 2018)

Just got this today for my collection.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 2, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Hahaha!! XD That'd be nuts. Man you have all kinds of interesting ideas. 9mm Luger single action revolvers, underfolder Mosins. You sound like some sort of post-apocalyptic gunsmith from the Mad Max universe.


You'd probably like my idea my brain just came up with today for another backpack rifle. Take remington 1858 carbine.  Remove the stock Take a regular pistol grip. An underfolding mechansim. You know have a pistol gripped under folding 45 LC rifle that could do both blackpowder and smokeless.

I also have a design for a single action 45 LC pistol that uses magazines. It'd be interesting to see if its doable. Basically the design is taking the same bolt design used in lever actions but applying it to a pistol. Fixed barrel single stack magazine. Single action pistol that would be accurate.

I also have a design for a straight pull back bullpup sniper rifle that I estimate would allow for insane barrel length in a compact package. I also always wanted to make a pump action rifle.  if you combined the two ideas above you'd get a pretty easy to use rifle. Just add a biped and you could chew through ammo pretty quickly.

One crazy idea I'd like to see if possible would be to make a double barreling revolving rifle. It'd be like a double barrel shotgun. Even make it top break for speed loading. You'd need to set it up so the cylinders would be rotating in opposite directions and slightly offset. Would be a bit complicated to make, but would be a hoot to see operational however.

I love seeing oddball antique guns. One of my personal favorites.




Yes your eyes are not playing tricks on you. That is a revolver sword.




Yupe revolver in the hilt of a calvary sword. I saw one example somewhere of somebody doing this with a sword cane. Now that's a rich bastard who feared little.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Rochat said:


> I'm sorry, I don't follow?



Oh, maybe you're going off the comic, the Fritz the Cat movie is a very ummm risqué cartoon movie.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 2, 2018)

striker479 said:


> Just got this today for my collection. View attachment 27266


There's a store near me that's trying to sell one of those for $2000 and it's not even in as nice a shape as the one you found.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 2, 2018)

Jarren said:


> There's a store near me that's trying to sell one of those for $2000 and it's not even in as nice a shape as the one you found.


Yeah I'd never pay that much for what that is. Damn that's like thompson with violin case money.


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 2, 2018)

Whoa hoo!!!

Sks is in Calgary,should have it by Monday


----------



## Val_Redwolf (Feb 2, 2018)

I own a pistol, a Glock 19 to be exact. Good fire arm, reliable. I don't need much. I was military so I am no stranger to weapons considering how many I was trained on and used.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 2, 2018)

Val_Redwolf said:


> I own a pistol, a Glock 19 to be exact. Good fire arm, reliable. I don't need much. I was military so I am no stranger to weapons considering how many I was trained on and used.


Glocks are good guns.  It came down to the Glock 19 vs the Beretta 92FS when I was choosing a handgun. After some time at the range with both guns I finslly settled on the Beretta simply because it’s a heavier gun and I love the light singje action trigger pull. But I think I’ve benn happy with the Glock too.


----------



## Val_Redwolf (Feb 2, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Glocks are good guns.  It came down to the Glock 19 vs the Beretta 92FS when I was choosing a handgun. After some time at the range with both guns I finslly settled on the Beretta simply because it’s a heavier gun and I love the light singje action trigger pull. But I think I’ve benn happy with the Glock too.


At the end of the day its all up to how the weapon feels to you.  Cheers!


----------



## Latur Husky (Feb 2, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Guns and furries? Is this heaven?


I've been asking myself the same question. Unfortunately I don't own any wepons myself because I have no conditions to store them


----------



## Telnac (Feb 2, 2018)

Latur Husky said:


> I've been asking myself the same question. Unfortunately I don't own any wepons myself because I have no conditions to store them


I believe you can still join a shooting club & enjoy time at the range with rented firearms.


----------



## Rochat (Feb 2, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Oh, maybe you're going off the comic, the Fritz the Cat movie is a very ummm risqué cartoon movie.


I was?  lol I didn't even know there was a comic strip, I might have to buy some comics now. I wasn't trying to be edgy or anything, I just enjoyed the movie. Nothing wrong with being a little risque.


Latur Husky said:


> I've been asking myself the same question. Unfortunately I don't own any wepons myself because I have no conditions to store them


Sorry to hear that. I'm fortunate enough to live in one of the states that's more liberal in regards to guns.


----------



## Latur Husky (Feb 2, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Sorry to hear that. I'm fortunate enough to live in one of the states that's more liberal in regards to guns.


No worries, every time I visit my home country I try to visit shooting range to throw some lead downrange  So far it works for me as an replacement


----------



## Telnac (Feb 2, 2018)

Latur Husky said:


> No worries, every time I visit my home country I try to visit shooting range to throw some lead downrange  So far it works for me as an replacement


“Visiting your home country...” I feel that way every time I leave CA.


----------



## Latur Husky (Feb 2, 2018)

Telnac said:


> “Visiting your home country...” I feel that way every time I leave CA.


To clarify few things. I live in UK but I was born and lived for 25 years in Poland where (following my patriotism and my army service out there) I've learned how to shoot, and it caught me as an infection  But honestly I really don't know how I would react if I would have to soot living person in case of war. It honestly scares me. maybe that's why I haven't stayed in the army.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 2, 2018)

Latur Husky said:


> To clarify few things. I live in UK but I was born and lived for 25 years in Poland where (following my patriotism and my army service out there) I've learned how to shoot, and it caught me as an infection  But honestly I really don't know how I would react if I would have to soot living person in case of war. It honestly scares me. maybe that's why I haven't stayed in the army.


Oddly enough I could shoot a person who’s threatening me or my family & sleep easy that night. But hunting... I can’t bring myself to shoot an innocent animal.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Rochat said:


> I was?  lol I didn't even know there was a comic strip, I might have to buy some comics now. I wasn't trying to be edgy or anything, I just enjoyed the movie. Nothing wrong with being a little risque.
> 
> Sorry to hear that. I'm fortunate enough to live in one of the states that's more liberal in regards to guns.



Not at all, I need to watch it, wasn't putting you down or anything.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Feb 3, 2018)

JackieR said:


> I find gas to be more practical than guns



Nothing sexier than a nicely tuned gas chamber, eh?


----------



## Telnac (Feb 3, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> Nothing sexier than a nicely tuned gas chamber, eh?


Downside of blocking someone: statements like this are really confusing without the context!


----------



## BahgDaddy (Feb 3, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Downside of blocking someone: statements like this are really confusing without the context!



You're really not missin anything. I'm just having fun.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 3, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> You're really not missin anything. I'm just having fun.


Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 3, 2018)

Went to the range gun that sells gun. They had there a freaking sportizered nazi mauser sniper rifle. god that mauser had a weird energy too. Kind of actually creepy. It was pretty cheap for a mauser of that condition and it had a leupold scope, but even my friend had a bad reaction to it when he held it.

Was going there to hopefully pick up a circuit judge in 45LC but they sold it yesterday! >:C.

HOWEVER the nagant revolver is still there, and it dropped in price. Its now 275 *Bites finger*

Oh dear gods I have to go get my permit to purchase to go purchase it that has been a gun I've always wanted.  Its a double action, but its pull is pretty nice and the sight picture is alot better than my remington. And it comes with the hostler and cleaning rod.

Oh dear gods I want the soviet gas seal revolver badly with wooden grips.. GAAAH its a tula tooo!


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 3, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> You live in Minnesota, right? I don't know anything about that state's gun laws, but can you put a down payment on that Nagant and get them to put it on layaway for you?


In mn you need to get a permit to purchase for a handgun. I could have bought it and had them hold it until I get the permit to purchase but that seems vaguely a dump  of money without getting the gun. In my hand.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Yeah I'm seeing what it takes for a permit to purchase.  I'm also looking at permit to carry as that nagant revolver would be a lovely little coat gun.

Sure its rounds aren't a .454 casull HOWEVER, its less what you use and more how you use it.

Went there put a deposit on it.

Inspected it deeply. 1941 Tula, original hostler. Awesome with the cleaning rod exactly like 2010 for 109.

Nope deeper inspection. Original lanyard and screwdriver! Basically issue kit. 100% there.

So yes I will be able to look like that drawing. Also I want to get my permit to carry and make 155 grain loads for it.


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## Telnac (Feb 4, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Yeah I'm seeing what it takes for a permit to purchase.  I'm also looking at permit to carry as that nagant revolver would be a lovely little coat gun.
> 
> Sure its rounds aren't a .454 casull HOWEVER, its less what you use and more how you use it.
> 
> ...


I hope you can get you permit quickly. Sounds like a sweet gun!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I hope you can get you permit quickly. Sounds like a sweet gun!


It can take up to two weeks I need to go the sheriffs office in person and file it there on Friday once I get the gun I'll schedule a permit to carry class. There's a local place that does courses so it'd probably be 200-300 with everything said and done to get a permit to carry

However these little guy with handloads and how I naturally shoot,  also it fits what I collect


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 4, 2018)

For those who don't know what I'm excited about here it is. Or one of over 18,000 they cranked out that year alone.





















Also glad the importation marking on mine isn't as bad as this.












I think mine has wooden grips. I'll find out hopefully some time next week.

These guys are infamous here for being A) Inaccurate B) Wimpy C) <Insert bald eagle screeching and american saying they're foreign so screw them with the america fuck yeah theme song playing in the background>

All of these points are due to the simple fact of the ammo. Factory commerical ammo is target loads which means they're very weak. The gun itself is actually very stout and people are able to run 32 ACP through them. As well as 32 H&R magnum through them. Which pressure rating is about TWICE what the normal factory ammo produced.

So these guns are tough as nails. Handed out to officers and tank drivers.

So the wimpy and inaccurate ammo is something I can fix. Starline is making new brass for them and since the diameter size is what I'm loading for everything from 30-30 and to argentine mauser I bet I can use the same 155 grain polymer coated bullet I have.  I bet that 2.5 grains of unique would produce a pretty hard hitting round.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 5, 2018)

turns out the gods are guiding me towards this revolver. I just found out the Serbian brass was onsale for them half off at grafs and they even had the reloading dies. So I bought 3 bags of 100 unprimed cases. And they take the same primer I bought for my 9mm yesterday. Funny how the universe seems to go.

You don't need this... but I'm going to dump enough sugar on this deal to give you type 2 diabetes and die with a smile. I think the only way this could get better is if a cute ukranian gal delivered it to me by hand  and stayed for a cup of caravan.Don't judge me.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 5, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Sure its rounds aren't a .454 casull HOWEVER, its less what you use and more how you use it


A .454 Casull is really not that big of a deal these days. The .475 Linebaugh is the most powerful production loaded cartridge out there. Ungodly recoil and muzzle climb, not for the weak of wrist and faint of heart. It will put the hurt on you is you decide to take it to the range one day. My converted Super Redhawk has had eleven rounds put through it. Ten rounds to regulate the optics (Leupold VX) and one round to drop this massive moose that fed us for about six months. Shot was about sixty yards out, uphill by at least seventy-five feet. Yielded about seven hundred pounds of meat.


----------



## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 5, 2018)

I want to own a gun, but owning a weapon on base is a hassle; you can't have it in your residence, you can only have it in the armory at some location down the way, which kinda defeats the purpose of a firearm for me since I would buy one to protect myself with it.


----------



## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 5, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Have you considered trying to get a place off base?



Not really in the financial point to go off base.  On base housing is free and that saves me a lot of money.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 5, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Not really in the financial point to go off base.  On base housing is free and that saves me a lot of money.


What about a small storage space?


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 5, 2018)

Just came in...

1952 Tula.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 5, 2018)

Telnac said:


> What about a small storage space?


No easier solution just mail the guns to me I'll take care of them until you get your situation sorted out! 


Ramjet556 said:


> Just came in...
> 
> 1952 Tula.


Nice!

Speaking of Tulas I applied for the permit today. Work was let out two hours earlier due to issues of supplies.


However that allowed me to apply for the permit today instead of Friday!

Yay! And where I live is really good at getting out the permits.


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 5, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Congratulations! Your re-initiation into the holy Church of Simonov is now officially complete. Peace be with you brother!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hehehe...

She's pretty rough but funcions flawlessly...I didn't expect a beauty at this price...

I'll clean her up further...Might even redo the stock...


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 5, 2018)

@DarkoKavinsky - I caution you NOT to fire H&R 32 Magnum rounds in your Nagant! No! H&R Magnum has roughly double the C.U.P. of the original 7.62 Nagant. Good way to blow up a cylinder, if you ask me. And hurt yourself. Load only jacketed rounds into Moisin-Nagant brass, preferably new brass. Even hard cast rounds will cause lead fouling and tie up the revolver.

Also, a PSA to all reloaders; when reloading, be sure to weigh all rounds after charging with powder to ensure you have not under or overcharged the case. If you're using an automated press, occasionally weigh a charge to make sure it's throwing the correct charge. Check to make sure you have room for the bullet at full seating depth and you don't under or overcrimp the case mouth for revolvers and pistols.

I posted this PSA because I have a friend that liked to shoot .500 S&W Magnum. His Dillon press started overcharging the cases due to a malfunction of some kind that I could not replicate. Blew the cylinder in half, split the revolver at the breech face (backstrap, frame) and took off his right trigger finger, half of his middle finger, part of his thumb, half of his left index finger and severe damage to his left middle finger. I was in the next bay and received bits of shrapnel in the side of my face.

We both went to the hospital that night and I had to answer more than my fair share of questions from LEO that had no clue about reloading, all while a doctor picked steel out of my face. My personal forensics the next day showed what may have been a 50% overcharge-the powder, once the bullet was pulled, showed no room below the bullet at full seat. Maybe a slight compression of powder, even. Dillon could not duplicate the overcharge, since my buddy shipped it to them for inspection. They sent min a new, upgraded press in return. Kinda fishy, eh?

Oddly enough, because it was firearms related, our Kaiser insurance would not cover our emergency room visit. Strange, eh? Considering what I give for our family health insurance is more than most people make in a month.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 5, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> @DarkoKavinsky - I caution you NOT to fire H&R 32 Magnum rounds in your Nagant! No! H&R Magnum has roughly double the C.U.P. of the original 7.62 Nagant. Good way to blow up a cylinder, if you ask me. And hurt yourself. Load only jacketed rounds into Moisin-Nagant brass, preferably new brass. Even hard cast rounds will cause lead fouling and tie up the revolver.
> 
> Also, a PSA to all reloaders; when reloading, be sure to weigh all rounds after charging with powder to ensure you have not under or overcharged the case. If you're using an automated press, occasionally weigh a charge to make sure it's throwing the correct charge. Check to make sure you have room for the bullet at full seating depth and you don't under or overcrimp the case mouth for revolvers and pistols.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'd never throw a magnum round into one of these guys. I've just seen people firing them off numerous times and no explosions YET its like loading a brass frame bp gun with 30 grains of BP every time. Its going to add stress and eventually destroy things. I'm paranoid about powder charges. If I even have a hesitation I dump the powder back in and start over.  I also inspect and weigh the powder levels and check their height in the case.  

Yeah double charging is a real risk and its one I take seriously. My equiptment is bought second hand. Its a lyman spartan with a pacific powder thrower. The powder thrower is accurate but once and awhile you do have what I think is static causing things to cling. So when ever that happens I watch carefully. I've had a few double charges which I've caught by being cautious and double checking everything. I always load on the low end scale. I don't see the damn point of max hot loads. The min is more economical and saves on stress on brass.

whats crazy is there is no real data on the Nagant revolver a 32-30 will work in them with no issues and thats 16,000 CUP but the target ammo that is being manufactured now is rated at 11,000 cup but it all has a velocity of around 800 or so, where as the soviet military ammo is cranking out 1000 fps.

Theres very little data on these guys. So I am going to start off with 2.5 grains of unique and go from there.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 6, 2018)

A further PSA; Wear wraparound impact-rated shooting glasses when you go shooting. No cheap ones, either. I wear WileyX PT-1 military style wraparound glassses with the PTX prescription lens carrier. Meets military specs,too. I still have the rust-color lens with the steel imbedded into it. Would have lost an eye otherwise. The PT-1 style goes backorder every once in a while because the troops order that model for use overseas.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 7, 2018)

I think when I get my permit I'll be picking up another pistol when I buy my Tula. They have a 9mm zastava TT clone which I think needs to come home with me.

It's only 225 and that's s pretty decent
Deal for a Serbian made pistol that will match my ak!

капита́н Дарко Кавинскы

I like the sounds of that.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 7, 2018)

checked the mail and not going to lie this was me.





I know I probably won't get it by friday it has till monday to get to me. but still.





Anyways lets post up some more soviet weapons in the mean time.




Zastava 9mm They have one of these at the same gun store where I'm buying the tula.

A Feg PA-63 another handgun I'd wish to purchase.




Always wanted to get one theres a guy who makes custom grips for these in any material you want for 60 dollars. One of the options is black carbon fiber. Which I think would look stunning on that gun.

Heres a fun one for you people.




Russian contract 1911 colts.

And heres one gun thats insane to think about.  What happens when a drunken mosin nagant has a fling with a cute Winchestor




Winchester m1895 in 7.62x54r

Yupe. Made for ww1 for the Tsar!

Also theres another cheap gun at the store its a davis  p-380 for a whooping 89 dollars.





Called it a saturday night special... Most accurate description ever.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 8, 2018)

Good news my 300 cases of 7.62x38r arrived same with the dies. 

However the permit to purchase the gun these go to has not.




Normally I'd be making ammo but I've heard that handloading for these revolvers is a bit of a personal experience between each gun.it would suck to make a bunch of rounds and not having them chamber in the gun.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 9, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I always did think those M1895 Winchesters were cool. It's like a lever action that wants to be a bolt action. One of my characters uses one in .30-06.
> 
> I guess I'll go ahead and post it again, just for the hell of it. Here are some pictures of a retro 1970s AR-15 I used to own; a Colt SP-1. The barrel had a 1:12 rifling twist. These rifles are wonderfully lightweight! And the A1 style buttstock is just about the perfect length, a bit shorter than the slightly cumbersome A2 stocks. This is basically an XM-16E1 with an A1 birdcage flash hider and chromed chamber and bore. It also had the buttstock storage compartment. I believe this one was made in 1976, or possibly '77.
> 
> ...


Looking good. How well does it fire?


----------



## Br3a (Feb 9, 2018)

I own a semi auto 22 and a 30-30 lever action merlin


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 9, 2018)

Br3a said:


> I own a semi auto 22 and a 30-30 lever action merlin


Marlin? I remember my Marlin.


----------



## Br3a (Feb 9, 2018)

Uh yes oops


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 9, 2018)

Br3a said:


> Uh yes oops


My first firearm was a .22 semi auto Marlin rifle. Bought it at Service Merchandise when I was 17.


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## Jarren (Feb 9, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> My first firearm was a .22 semi auto Marlin rifle. Bought it at Service Merchandise when I was 17.


My first was a little Henry .22 lever gun. My dad still has it. That was a fun little plinker.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 9, 2018)

Jarren said:


> My first was a little Henry .22 lever gun. My dad still has it. That was a fun little plinker.


I really want a Henry. Love that brass!


----------



## Br3a (Feb 9, 2018)

My first was a winchester .22 ! Passed down from my father


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 9, 2018)

Jarren said:


> My first was a little Henry .22 lever gun. My dad still has it. That was a fun little plinker.


I had to pawn that .22 years ago. But I ended up buying another just like it. My kids love shooting that thing. So fun!


----------



## Jarren (Feb 9, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> I really want a Henry. Love that brass!


If I can budget the money I'd love to get one of their special edition ones. The Eagle Scout commemorative one specifically. Would look nice hanging on the wall next to the award plaque itself.


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 9, 2018)

Jarren said:


> If I can budget the money I'd love to get one of their special edition ones. The Eagle Scout commemorative one specifically. Would look nice hanging on the wall next to the award plaque itself.


If I were a millionaire, my gun room would be nice .


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## Telnac (Feb 9, 2018)

The first gun I fired was a bolt action .22 at a boy scout range. First gun I owned was my 7.62x54R 1944 Mosin-Nagant carbine I inherited from my grandfather. Also bolt action but that gun’s no plinkster!


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 9, 2018)

Some vintage single shot Cooey was my first gun I fired...

Love at first squeeze


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 12, 2018)

Went to the gunstore paid for both of the guns. The tt-33 clone is a Serbian zastava clone asked to see it threw it into my hand and felt it like belonged. Sights are rudimentary but quick for me to lock on with. Only issue is magazines are hard to come by. However somebody figured out that p38 mags can be modded to fit. A guy was selling two 10 round mags on eBay. I threw him an offer of 43 dollars he took it. 

So that's going to be fun.  People bitch a lot about these pistols how they feel odd in the hand? I've noticed soviet guns fit well in my left hand. I wonder if it's somewhere in communist military design to take in account left handed shooters.


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 12, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> If I were a millionaire, my gun room would be nice .




Mine would look something like this...







I'd call it the "Situation Room"


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 12, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Mine would look something like this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes!!!!


----------



## Telnac (Feb 12, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Mine would look something like this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I were a millionare CEO this would be the executive board room.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 12, 2018)

Telnac said:


> If I were a millionare CEO this would be the executive board room.


Nah I say HR department.




This is the board room. Just be sure to make sure its sound deadened and you put a loaded gun on the table with a round chambered.

make it clear you call the shots.

(This is why I'm not a CEO of a Fortune 500 company)


Also speaking of things I don't have. My permit hasn't arrived yet. Hopefully it arrives tomorrow. I really would like to pick up my freaking pistols.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 12, 2018)

You know this isn't a place to speak about politics but it's been a week and I don't have my pistols yet. Yet people make it seem like you can walk in and out with fifty handguns in under five minutes. 



Idk just had to say that


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 12, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> You know this isn't a place to speak about politics but it's been a week and I don't have my pistols yet. Yet people make it seem like you can walk in and out with fifty handguns in under five minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> Idk just had to say that


When you have a clean record and a concraled weapons permit, it is usually that easy.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 12, 2018)

Don't even need a handgun permit in my state, even for concealed carry. Background checks just take longer for pistols, for whatever reason. Typically in and out within an hour though.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 12, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> When you have a clean record and a concraled weapons permit, it is usually that easy.


yeah but most people  say *anybody* can walk in show cash get a pistol and go shoot up a place.

Keep in mind these aren't amazing death machines one was made in 1941, and one is basically from 1940's as well.

If I had a conceal and carry which in itself is a bunch of hoops to jump through I could have done so. Because of the background checks already done etc etc.

It's just a part of me is laughing because think if I was some deranged maniac trying to kill somebody I feel with over a week I would have cooled off or strangled the person to death by now.

I'm not upset I just snort when I hear oh yeah you can walk into a gunstore and walk out with a full auto uzi with armor piercing rounds.

Unless your gunstore is Dmitri Dranovich's alleyway I doubt that's going to happen!


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 12, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Don't even need a handgun permit in my state, even for concealed carry. Background checks just take longer for pistols, for whatever reason. Typically in and out within an hour though.


With my permit, no background check.


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## Jarren (Feb 12, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> With my permit, no background check.


O.=.o I need one of these permits, not that handguns are my thing in particular but it could be handy for not keeping the poor shop owner stuck at the counter a half hour after closing waiting on NICS to get back to him when I stop in at 4:45 in the evening : P


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 12, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> yeah but most people  say *anybody* can walk in show cash get a pistol and go shoot up a place.
> 
> Keep in mind these aren't amazing death machines one was made in 1941, and one is basically from 1940's as well.
> 
> ...


Well here in Georgia, it is rather easy to get a weapon in about an hour. Even at the gun show. As long as your record is clean, you are good to go. They do the background check right there. I could go in, buy an AR-15, several 30 round magazines, and however many ammo cans of reloads I wanted, with a nice Colt or Glock handgun, and walk out of there with guns and ammo in hand, and be out within an hour. 'Merica!!!


----------



## bhutrflai (Feb 12, 2018)

Case in point...when we bought our first guns together, I already had my ccp, Okami didn't. Took me all of 5mins to have mine done, took him over an hour. Its a very nice thing to have.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 12, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Well here in Georgia, it is rather easy to get a weapon in about an hour. Even at the gun show. As long as your record is clean, you are good to go. They do the background check right there. I could go in, buy an AR-15, several 30 round magazines, and however many ammo cans of reloads I wanted, with a nice Colt or Glock handgun, and walk out of there with guns and ammo in hand, and be out within an hour. 'Merica!!!


 Yeah my communist state isn't as liberating.

You have people scared of guns here and think banning them from citizens will somehow stop the gangbangers buying them from the cartels or stop the Russian syndicate from importing them in and offloading them directly from the ship.

People were so happy when surplus got fucked over 
Right because when I think gang bangers I think ww2 bolt actions and ww1 revolvers. And not mac10's imported in from the IRA and sold to the hells angels for profit which then get sold with heroin 

What's funny is all of this anti gun sentiment made me like them  because I actually learned about them.


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 12, 2018)

I consider myself to be a law abiding citizen. I aint a criminal. I believe I should be able to have ready access to deadly weapons. Never know when the shits gonna hit the fan. And as seen in the LA riots, Katrina, and other disasters, YOU are sometimes the only defense. And you have a right to protect yourself, your loved ones, innocent bystanders, and your property, even with the use of deadly force, which should really only be used as a last resort.


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 12, 2018)

A firearm is an efficient tool. Nothing more. But they can be fun too. So can tools.


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 13, 2018)

Funny story. In The Marine Corp I was taught about the use of deadly force by a Navy Lt. Commander. He was also the Navy Chaplain on Parris Island. It just reinforced my belief that religion is total horseshit. And after reading the Old Testament, and how its all about conquering and enslaving non believers, and that God says it is alright to kill and conquer and enslave, I gave up on fairytales right then. That was.....24 years ago.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 13, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Funny story. In The Marine Corp I was taught about the use of deadly force by a Navy Lt. Commander. He was also the Navy Chaplain on Parris Island. It just reinforced my belief that religion is total horseshit. And after reading the Old Testament, and how its all about conquering and enslaving non believers, and that God says it is alright to kill and conquer and enslave, I gave up on fairytales right then. That was.....24 years ago.



This is why I like being a pagan our gods are all drunk screw each over and occasionally attack each other with axes.


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 13, 2018)

Remington files for Chapter 11

www.reuters.com: U.S. gunmaker Remington reaches deal with creditors to file for...


----------



## Telnac (Feb 13, 2018)

Guys can we keep religion out of this thread please. Bad enough when ppl try to turn this thread into a political debate thread. We don’t need it to be a religious debate thread too. 

Back on topic, I finally managed to get the dust cover off of my VEPR. They put that thing on there TIGHT!  I didn’t want to take it to the range ‘til I knew I could clean it since 7.62x54R ammo tends to be corrosive. I couldn’t find anyone on YouTube that showed how to take the dust cover off and all I found on gun forums was ppl saying how hard it is to take off. The secret is pulling up and back on the dust cover while pushing in the button that releases it.  PITA!


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 13, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Guys can we keep religion out of this thread please. Bad enough when ppl try to turn this thread into a political debate thread. We don’t need it to be a religious debate thread too.
> 
> Back on topic, I finally managed to get the dust cover off of my VEPR. They put that thing on there TIGHT!  I didn’t want to take it to the range ‘til I knew I could clean it since 7.62x54R ammo tends to be corrosive. I couldn’t find anyone on YouTube that showed how to take the dust cover off and all I found on gun forums was ppl saying how hard it is to take off. The secret is pulling up and back on the dust cover while pushing in the button that releases it.  PITA!


Sounds like the zastava aks. Hence why I modded an original soviet stamped one to fit that I bought from an old Vietnam vet at a garage sale for 2 bucks.

So yeah my akm not only looks like it cobbled together from parts in. Rainforest, but one of the actual parts is from one.

Still don't got my permit. Stature states 7 days it's now 8 if I do  not get it this fucking week then I can't get the guns until past the 26 of this month due to the range and store shutting down.
At least I'm not in st.paul there its normal to take your permit to purchase 68 days instead of the mandated fucking 7.

Granted down there legally abiding firearm owners are treated like scum of the earth.

I just want my damn guns I paid for.

I literally built my glock 19 in less time.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 13, 2018)

Sorry to hear that. That’s why I hate permits. It’s just another way the government to screw with you.


----------



## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 13, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Sorry to hear that. That’s why I hate permits. It’s just another way the government to screw with you.


So true!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

One of my friends told me how it doesn't really affect me. Having to wait extra long to get something I bought?  I literally paid for and passed the background check for!

How does that not affect me?

I think the thing I'm most peeved at is I've seen a person who by all accounts should have not gotten his permit to purchase at all, got his is 3 days and was wielding a mill spec AR in that time. A guy who tried to joining the military was kicked out due to mental reasons and literally thinks halo is real life. A guy who the fact he owns one scares us.

What worries me most is there's a bullshit option because of a clause that can extend the waiting period by five more days for shits and ducking giggles. If you are approved for the permit.

For no reason.

I'm fearing I got hit with that which is bullshit.

So a combination of factors if I don't get it tomorrow I'll won't have my pistols until march which sucks because I really wanted to have them so me and friend could go target shooting with them on his birthday on the 20th


Which is another thing. He's looking forward to trying out new guns. And it's his birthday damnit.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I'm not surprised, considering all the things I've heard about Remington's shitty quality control and customer service since they got bought out by Cerberus/Freedom Group back in 2007, or whenever it was. It's a big reason for why I've had no interest in buying anything from them.


Remington owns Marlin which honestly after buying two modern leveractions I'm not impressed at all.

On one of them the loading gate screw sheered and broke causing the gun to jam and break. It was a simple fix but 12 rounds in.

The other gun the front forescrew sheered itself meaning the wood piece is just free floating and can be removed.

I was so appalled I hear people tell me how modern guns are more reliable. I fed a Chinese carbine t-56 corroded ammo and it didn't fail to eject, fire or anything. A new marlin jams and breaks within a box of rounds?

This is why I go for military surplus. They have a bunch of ex police Remington 700 sniper rifles at the range. If I was in the market for such a beast I'd pick one up. They're pricey at 998 dollars but they come with the biped and scope so they're ready to go.

I've heard many good things about those.

But I'd probably opt for a scoped Mosin at a pawn shop for 200 instead.


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## stimpy (Feb 14, 2018)

guns aren't very common in Australia any more. but one of  my m8's has a gun licence and has a few. couldn't tell what they are tho


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I'll stick to Mossberg for shotguns and Savage or Ruger for scoped bolt rifles.


My Mosins have yet to ever let me down. 2 holes into a raccoon at 75 yards  over twenty feet in a tree at midnight with iron sights speaks volumes to me.

Also never having a mechanical failure..  unlike my modern guns.

Idfk not a fan of modern store bought rifles.


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## Telnac (Feb 14, 2018)

Yeah my Mosin is more than 70 years old. I had it professionally cleaned for 50 bucks by a gunsmith when I inherited it from my grandfather to replace gunked up WWII era lubricant with modern stuff. It’s shot reliably ever since. They may be cheap old guns but they just work when you need them every time.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Yeah my Mosin is more than 70 years old. I had it professionally cleaned for 50 bucks by a gunsmith when I inherited it from my grandfather to replace gunked up WWII era lubricant with modern stuff. It’s shot reliably ever since. They may be cheap old guns but they just work when you need them every time.


Actually somebody ran the numbers to build them today would cost 800 dollars a pop. They're cheap due to surplus not because of quality.


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## Telnac (Feb 14, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Actually somebody ran the numbers to build them today would cost 800 dollars a pop. They're cheap due to surplus not because of quality.


Nice!  Do you have a link to the article?


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

Smith-Sights for the Mosin-Nagant


Just a quick blurb here.

But still.


Also I still don't have my  permit which is supposed to be in my hands at most 7 days.
Edit: I called up the sherif he redirected me to the people who do the permits. It was approved they just forgot to mail it. So I went up and picked it up!


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## Telnac (Feb 14, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Smith-Sights for the Mosin-Nagant
> 
> 
> Just a quick blurb here.
> ...


They forgot to mail it. SMH

At least you have it now. Go get your guns!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

Telnac said:


> They forgot to mail it. SMH
> 
> At least you have it now. Go get your guns!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 14, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Beautiful guns! They look like they're in really nice shape. I'm really liking that Tokarev especially


its a zastava  9mm m70a slide safety and it has a 'broken' mag safety. Well by broken I mean removed which is a normally a complaint on these guys. The mag safety stops the mag from dropping when ejected not this guy. I press the eject button and it's like Hollywood! Also colt 1911 hustlers work with these guys so I can get a shoulder rig with ease.

Another issue is mags are hard to find however p38 mags will fit with a bit of modification. I found a guy on eBay selling two aftermarket 10 round p38 mags. He took my offer.

The Nagant is an aresnal bastard. However the parts are interesting. Izzy hammer and trigger imperial Tula trigger guard barrel looks to be late 40's with no wear and it has an arsenal refurbish mark.

Action is smooth as butter. People bitch about the trigger pull but maybe I'm just used to antique weapons.  Both guns fit wonderfully in my hand and are comfortable  Nagant I know will shoot well in my hands. It feels like it was tailored same with the m70a


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## Rochat (Feb 20, 2018)

Trump is about to ban all the guns! Everyone panic buy!! :\/


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## Junkerfox (Feb 20, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Trump is about to ban all the guns! Everyone panic buy!! :\/


No hes not hes going after the special stocks. Its like obama all over again "oh shit everyone piss yourselves the president has dictater powers now"


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## Rochat (Feb 20, 2018)

Junkerfox said:


> No hes not hes going after the special stocks. Its like obama all over again "oh shit everyone piss yourselves the president has dictater powers now"


Yeah. I just get the feeling a Clinton style AWB wouldn't be out of the question. People are pretty fired up right now.


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## Junkerfox (Feb 20, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Yeah. I just get the feeling a Clinton style AWB wouldn't be out of the question. People are pretty fired up right now.


Its not gonna fix a goddam thing in the end.


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## Kumali (Feb 20, 2018)

Emma Gonzalez is my new hero.


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## Rochat (Feb 20, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Guys, can we please not turn this into a gun politics thread? There's already been another one made for that purpose.


Sorry, man. I honestly wasn't trying to argue this or that point, I was just speculating on future legislation.


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## ShadowofBucephalus (Feb 23, 2018)

Avid gun owner.
Bought my first rifle (Marlin .22), when I was 15 years old.  Had to have my Mom with me, to authorize the purchase.  Was at a Kmart in Palm Desert, CA.  That rifle, and a brick (500 rounds) of ammo cost me $85.00.  Money I earned by my own sweat and effort.  I still own this rifle (and a twin, 'cause I love 'em so much).
I've been buying/selling firearms for nearly 3 decades now. (yes, I'm old.  shut-up).
I've owned as many as 40+ at one time, now down to 9.
Love the sport, hunting, self-defense aspects.
Qualified as 'Expert' during my time in the Corps., and have continued my training and education since (over 30 years now.  shush.  I did admit to being olde).


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## Jarren (Feb 23, 2018)

ShadowofBucephalus said:


> I've been buying/selling firearms for nearly 30 decades now.


Damn, dude. You predate the second amendment XP

(I know what you meant by this, but I couldn't resist.)


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 23, 2018)

got a new base for my reloading press coming in. I exploded the wood one when trying to resize 30-06 brass... sheered the screws right out of the wood. Got a metal one coming that should really help with making ammo.

Also I made a test round of nagant ammo. Fired it into the ground because it wouldn't fully seat and was live. But once there was an issue i kept the muzzle down and away from my feet. the 155 grain bullet with 2.5 grains of unique powder produced no recoil. Subsonic. Curious to see how that recipe works. really like that little revolver. 

My friend's 45 LC conversion came in for his revolver I set up for him. He's a natural with it. We loaded up some ammo for him.

Really enjoying the Zastava pistol. Its really accurate in my hands. The p38 mags would work if they were longer. I'm thinking about getting an extra mag to make two extended magazines.

still nervous though with all of the shit thats going on.


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## Jarren (Feb 23, 2018)

So, I'm giving in to the panic buy and I'll be going shopping for an AR or AK this weekend (possibly today if I've got the time). Here's hoping the local shops haven't been cleaned out.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> People are panic buying again? Exactly how crazy is this shit starting to get now?


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## Ramjet (Feb 23, 2018)

I'm not worried about any new firearm purchases as I have basically everything I want,but I'll be picking up as much .223/9mm/.22lr/.308/12G as I can...


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## Rochat (Feb 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> People are panic buying again? Exactly how crazy is this shit starting to get now?


Pretty crazy, I saw a binary trigger on the local forum yesterday for $800.  lol


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 23, 2018)

This is why I got into handloading. I think I'll go pick up some more unique powder and that's it.

I bought bullets not ammo. I like making my own as it does allow for a good amount of freedom and control. I've noticed factory ammo has gone down in quality. Especially the 9mm.


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## ShadowofBucephalus (Feb 23, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Damn, dude. You predate the second amendment XP
> 
> (I know what you meant by this, but I couldn't resist.)


lol

'Ooops?'

;-)

:: Edited OP.  Thx for the heads-up, and chuckles!  ::   (I'd be dust after 30 decades... eeshh)


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## ShadowofBucephalus (Feb 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> 30 decades? Damn, you're over 300 years old? Wow, you're even older than the Marine Corps you served in.


Pffft...

Don' you talk-back to yer Elder's! 

:-D

::Shakes walking-cane in yer general direction.. ::


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## Ramjet (Feb 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Guns are one thing, but ammo is certainly always something you're going to need more of. Buy cheap, stack deep.



Damn tootin....


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## Telnac (Feb 23, 2018)

I finally found a gun case big enough to fit my VEPR!  I had no idea that gun was too long to fit in most rifle cases!  Now I can finally take the beast to the range!


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## Jarren (Feb 23, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I finally found a gun case big enough to fit my VEPR!  I had no idea that gun was too long to fit in most rifle cases!  Now I can finally take the beast to the range!


I've got the same issue with my Mauser and PTR. Finally broke down and bought a full pelican case kinda deal to hold them. Works well, but damn is it awkward at times.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 23, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Guns are one thing, but ammo is certainly always something you're going to need more of. Buy cheap, stack deep.


Make your own trust me. You'll be able to make top shelf shit for bottom prices. I can make polymer coated match grade nickel plated brass 9mm for the price of okay quality fiocchi.

You can also tailor bullets. There's no gas seal 155 grain polymer ammo made for the m1895... until I made it. That little guy now has some bark.
It's the same bullet used in the 30-30's I make.

A good place to get bullets is SNScasting polymer coated bullets require no lube.

Here's some photos I posted up in the shit show dumpster fire screeching ban all guns thread.



 



 I made that pistol.
polymer 80 lower with aggressive texturing. For when your hands get 'sweaty' and extended mag release
anodized Stainless slide with anodized stainless ported barrel with billet TiN coated extractor
Arsenal Democracy bang switch trigger and matching safety plunger. Its the most expensive trigger I've bought, but its worth every penny. Its designed to literally be like a light switch and the safety is absurd. You can't trigger it accidentally. I've literally thrown both fingers on the trigger without touching the safety and pulled with all my strength and it doesnt budge. I did get one hell of a cramp in my arms from doing that.

But when you want to pull the trigger its instant. No travel pull and its consistent. 100% the same. All the time.
Advantage tactical sights Here's a picture from the web.




too show sight picture.

Ammo is 9mm reload with 4.3 grains of unique and a Hornady hollow point fmj. Slowly working out the bad brass from the system. There was a box of Remington and Winchester I bought on sale that was utterly disgusting.

3 fifteen round glock magazines

My friends call me "John Wick" after building this gun and showing it to them.




I took a few pictures of me dressed up as a response. 


 

They loved them.

I can't wait for that to be used against me in the anti gun threads. 

I also dress up in my soviet outfit when I'm shooting off my russian guns. I like dressing up. Do get odd looks at a shooting range when you show up in a tweed suit with a matching tweed cap and pull out black gloves and start throwing down the target to the end of the range and lighting it up with an AKM. Did that with a friend when we rented an AK. People were chuckling at him.  He was shooting standing perfectly straight. It was when I stepped up threw the underfolder into my hand  slapping in the magazine. Lighting it up with my feet staggered apart. Calling out Live, Jam, clear. first time I fired an AKM.

I got some odd looks that day at the range. I guess this crap just comes natural to me.

Wonder how many of them thought I was a criminal or something.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 23, 2018)

Thought I'd upload this gem here as well! I call it 'dumpsterfire'


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 26, 2018)

My new stand for my reloading press came in. I would have been making bullets while I'm sick but I had to drill 4 holes into it for my press. Apparently a Lyman spartan from the 1960's doesn't exactly follow modern day press bolting patterns. Who would have thunk?!



 
Here's an image of what I got. It's smaller than I expected but damn is well built.  It'd cost me more to weld up something like this. And it's all welded up with GMAW really impressive. Really like the die holders that's just an awesome touch.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 27, 2018)

Feels like I'm the only one posting here anymore! 
Made ammo for my 1941 tula m1895!


 
These bullets are the oddest thing.  I think you can see why. Yes your eyes are not deceiving you those aren't empty cases. You are not drunk. question now is why aren't you?


 
Reloading these was hard as theres no reloading data available.  Only people experimenting. So what does The Bat Tsar Kavinsky do? He wings it of course!
Thanks to soviet ammo always being 7.62mm I was able to use my perfectly red polymer coated bullets that are sized at .309! 

These are 158 grains. the factory ammo is 96 grains. These are bigger, better, and _redder_! Perfect for side arm of red army! 

Now Bat tsar is no fool despite the fact what vodka says about him. Starting to regret telling vodka deep and personal secrets! _I thought I could trust you vodka!_

Anyways! 

At first loading this ammo was difficult. With no instructions and winging of it of course things become uncharted Territory. But nothing is gained by idle work! We go head first into victory! Or stumble drunkenly to somewhat blurry victory and pass out halfway! We take what we can get,  and do not complain.
Unlike any other bullet the Nagant 7.62x38mmR is an odd beast. Unique one of a kind and not appreciated by the world.   The biggest thing  is this round uses low powder charges and you have to lube it up before sizing and before inserting the bullet (also before putting in the powder, but that is common sense.... we hope.) , and the bullet is inset deeply. Which at first makes your heart jump into your throat when you look down and see the bullet gone and dropped into casing.

With any round that's bad news bears! But here it is how Nagant likes it. We shall not question its dubious tastes as we are furries and its like we have any right to judge.

Recipe for this round is.

158 grn coated lead bullet from SNScasting
2.5 grains of unique
7.62x38mmr Prvi Partizan cases
1 small pistol primer. I bought bulk. I do not care about brand. Why buy expensive that cuts into vodka money! Thats the whole point of reloading is to trick yourself into thinking you're saving money.


Results are a very nice round for a rather unappreciated handgun thats seen more as a novelty than an actual sidearm.  The accuracy is consistent and I can tell these have some punch now with the heavier bullet. They also have a tiny bit of kick.

The revolver itself is no issues to me. Others complain about its heavy trigger pull. My friends can't pull its trigger in double action. Others complain about the sights. I have no issues with them. 

Any complaint and issue brought up about this pistol is moot point in my odd furry hands. Why its an odd ball gun for an odd ball bat!.

Tis fitting orphan and I give it loving home!


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## Telnac (Feb 27, 2018)

I will be posting an update soon. Just busy at work.


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## Jarren (Feb 27, 2018)

So......remember when I said I was probably gonna panic buy...?
I panic bought a bit harder than I should probably have.
That said, I'm now the proud owner of an International Arms (IO) AKM and a Bushmaster XM series AR-15. Pics eventually.

I was chatting with the shop owners when I was out that day and everyone I talked to told me how much prices are already spiking on ARs, and I'm pretty sure that's gonna spread to all the semi auto "black guns" out there. Happy I got what I did when I did.
Downside: While I was making my purchases I was forced to pass up a very nice Yugo SKS and a Chinese TU-90 (Tokarev clone). That said, I think that I'll be slipping back into my surplus collecting routine once things calm down again, and hopefully they're still hanging around somewhere.


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## reptile logic (Feb 27, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Ooohh, 30-30. How's the kick on that? I haven't gotten the chance to fire any lever actions larger than .22. The offerings from Henry are beautiful and have been on a wish list of mine fits a while.



Just in case you haven't found the answer for yourself, a 30-30 carbine with a solid butt plate can get uncomfortable after just a few rounds fired. I also owned a Winchester carbine, 44mag, in classic '94 styling, for a while. With that straight grip; it was awkward to hold and I found it hard to keep on target. The kick told me the rest of the story. Beautiful to look at, but not worth my time to use.

I sold it without a moment of remorse.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 28, 2018)

reptile logic said:


> Just in case you haven't found the answer for yourself, a 30-30 carbine with a solid butt plate can get uncomfortable after just a few rounds fired. I also owned a Winchester carbine, 44mag, in classic '94 styling, for a while. With that straight grip; it was awkward to hold and I found it hard to keep on target. The kick told me the rest of the story. Beautiful to look at, but not worth my time to use.
> 
> I sold it without a moment of remorse.



Try a mosin with steel butt plate designed for cracking helmets.
 You want kick? Try the carbine version!


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## reptile logic (Feb 28, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Try a mosin with steel butt plate designed for cracking helmets.
> You want kick? Try the carbine version!



Owned one, long barrel; ran about 500 rounds through it.  (page 5 or 6 if this thread, I think). Also old Springfield 30-06. Old 10ga shotgun with hard rubber butt plate, yep. I do understand.


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## Telnac (Feb 28, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Try a mosin with steel butt plate designed for cracking helmets.
> You want kick? Try the carbine version!


Yup, got one of those. Had a nice sized bruise after the first 20 rounds. I have a nice modern recoil pad on it now!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Feb 28, 2018)

reptile logic said:


> Owned one, long barrel; ran about 500 rounds through it.  (page 5 or 6 if this thread, I think). Also old Springfield 30-06. Old 10ga shotgun with hard rubber butt plate, yep. I do understand.





Telnac said:


> Yup, got one of those. Had a nice sized bruise after the first 20 rounds. I have a nice modern recoil pad on it now!


i think I'm the only one who doesn't have issues with the mosin. I can shoot a shortened rifle in a business suit.

My friends are terrified of the mosins.


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## Telnac (Feb 28, 2018)

First time out with the VEPR!  My son was shooting my 9mm Beretta. I'm impressed he didn't shoot the hostage!

My thoughts on the VEPR: still kicks like a mule but nowhere near as bad as the Mosin-Nagant, even though they shoot the same round. After 80 rounds I had to stop b/c my shoulder hurt too much. I  had 2 bad feeds which surprised me. One was with the after market 10rd magazine and the other was with a factory mag. I don't know if CA's ban on thumb hole stocks is to blame or not. It's basically impossible to hold the gun correctly with the thumb hole plugged up so my shoulder is catching ALL the recoil and I know that affect how much energy goes into cycling the next round. Still think it's worth the purchase price just because I know I'll be moving out of this godforsaken place eventually.


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## ShadowofBucephalus (Feb 28, 2018)

reptile logic said:


> Just in case you haven't found the answer for yourself, a 30-30 carbine with a solid butt plate can get uncomfortable after just a few rounds fired. I also owned a Winchester carbine, 44mag, in classic '94 styling, for a while. With that straight grip; it was awkward to hold and I found it hard to keep on target. The kick told me the rest of the story. Beautiful to look at, but not worth my time to use.
> 
> I sold it without a moment of remorse.





DarkoKavinsky said:


> Try a mosin with steel butt plate designed for cracking helmets.
> You want kick? Try the carbine version!



Yep.  
My M1Garand has a steel buttplate, and after 20 clips my shoulder is telling me just how much it doesn't want to play anymore!  While I do have a shooting vest with padded shoulder, unless I'm skeeting for an afternoon, I don't use it.  I'd prefer to wear everyday clothing when practical shooting, so I'm more attuned to 'Muscle memory' and stuff should SHTF.  Normally it's just a t-shirt, for instance.
The older I get, the more my joints do not appreciate the postures/extended range days!  dammit...  I suppose that's one way to help me save my $$$ on ammo, at least?  :-D


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## DarkoKavinsky (Mar 1, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Lol @ you guys complaining about recoil. Shotguns and high-powered rifles don't seem to affect my shoulder one bit.


I don't get the pain from a mosins unless I'm bear chesting it.

I just heard people squawk about its recoil. Also an AKM if you can't handle the recoil of an AKM I don't know what to say.


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 5, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> i think I'm the only one who doesn't have issues with the mosin. I can shoot a shortened rifle in a business suit.
> 
> My friends are terrified of the mosins.



I own a couple of M91/30's and an M44 carbine, and I actually _prefer_ the M44 carbine.  The recoil came off as stout when I was in my early 20's and physically weaker than I am now, but even back then, I was still enjoyed shooting it.  



ShadowofBucephalus said:


> Yep.
> My M1Garand has a steel buttplate, and after 20 clips my shoulder is telling me just how much it doesn't want to play anymore!  While I do have a shooting vest with padded shoulder, unless I'm skeeting for an afternoon, I don't use it.  I'd prefer to wear everyday clothing when practical shooting, so I'm more attuned to 'Muscle memory' and stuff should SHTF.  Normally it's just a t-shirt, for instance.
> The older I get, the more my joints do not appreciate the postures/extended range days!  dammit...  I suppose that's one way to help me save my $$$ on ammo, at least?  :-D



I have been handloading and reloading .30-06 ammunition, given that the supplies of relatively affordable surplus ammunition have dwindled.  Unfortunately, I only have a single stage press, so this is time consuming.


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (Mar 6, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Lol @ you guys complaining about recoil. Shotguns and high-powered rifles don't seem to affect my shoulder one bit.


When I go to the range/Ntl. Forest to shoot, I'm firing over 1,000 rounds/trip.  Isn't at all unusual for me to have bruises the following day, and be quite sore for awhile.  Plus, if you're shooting 'Vintage/Authentic' WWI/II rifles?  They don't come with rubber shoulder pads (in most cases.  Some sniper variants have leather), to ease the recoil.

In this instance, 'Volume' (fired), matters.


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## Jarren (Mar 6, 2018)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> When I go to the range/Ntl. Forest to shoot, I'm firing over 1,000 rounds/trip.  Isn't at all unusual for me to have bruises the following day, and be quite sore for awhile.  Plus, if you're shooting 'Vintage/Authentic' WWI/II rifles?  They don't come with rubber shoulder pads (in most cases.  Some sniper variants have leather), to ease the recoil.
> 
> In this instance, 'Volume' (fired), matters.


Indeed. I can run ten or fifteen stripper clips through my Mosin or Mauser without much issue. Any more than that and I'll probably have a slight bruise the best day, even though I won't really feel it. The only gun I own where the recoil actually feels bothersome would be my k11. The Swiss didn't stay peaceful for any Noble reason, I've come to conclude from shooting that thing, they just were afraid their rifles would hurr them...


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (Mar 7, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Well here in Georgia, it is rather easy to get a weapon in about an hour. Even at the gun show. As long as your record is clean, you are good to go. They do the background check right there. I could go in, buy an AR-15, several 30 round magazines, and however many ammo cans of reloads I wanted, with a nice Colt or Glock handgun, and walk out of there with guns and ammo in hand, and be out within an hour. 'Merica!!!



And that is exactly as it should be.


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Mar 7, 2018)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> I consider myself to be a law abiding citizen. I aint a criminal. I believe I should be able to have ready access to deadly weapons. Never know when the shits gonna hit the fan. And as seen in the LA riots, Katrina, and other disasters, YOU are sometimes the only defense. And you have a right to protect yourself, your loved ones, innocent bystanders, and your property, even with the use of deadly force, which should really only be used as a last resort.





Okami_No_Heishi said:


> A firearm is an efficient tool. Nothing more. But they can be fun too. So can tools.



*Nodnods* 

You gonna give me whiplash, I keep readin' yer posts!  ;-)


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## Shadow of Bucephalus (Mar 7, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Remington owns Marlin which honestly after buying two modern leveractions I'm not impressed at all.
> 
> On one of them the loading gate screw sheered and broke causing the gun to jam and break. It was a simple fix but 12 rounds in.
> 
> ...



This is one of the reasons I favor the surplus/military-grade weaponry.
While all firearms made/designed by the military are NOT superior (France anyone, *coughcough*)?
Those that have a reputation for durability/reliability (and ease of finding spare parts!), counts for gold in a SHTF situation.


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 7, 2018)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> This is one of the reasons I favor the surplus/military-grade weaponry.
> While all firearms made/designed by the military are NOT superior (France anyone, *coughcough*)?
> Those that have a reputation for durability/reliability (and ease of finding spare parts!), counts for gold in a SHTF situation.



Same here.  Many of the firearms I own are milsurps, semi-auto AK variants, AR-15, and handguns with proven track records (Glock, Sig Sauer P220 series, etc.).

Do you remember when military surplus ammunition was cheap and widely available? Pepperidge Farm remembers!


----------



## Izzy4895 (Mar 7, 2018)

At worst, I may end up with some slight red marking on my shoulder after extended range sessions of firing hundreds of centerfire rounds through rifles.  Granted, I never feel anything as a result of it.  

Most of my rimfire shooting is done with a Ruger Mk. III pistol.  The field strip process on this gun proved to be quite irritating at first, but I have gotten used to it.  Granted, the Mk. IV is how they should have designed this gun in the first place.


----------



## Rochat (Mar 14, 2018)

Ok - odd question - has anyone used electronic hearing protection in a fursuit to enhance your hearing?


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## Rochat (Mar 15, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Why?


So, it seems that one problem fruiterers have is that it impairs vision and hearing. Electronic earpro can "enhance" hearing. Seems like it would offer a solution.


----------



## Rochat (Mar 15, 2018)

Maybe it was a dumb idea, lol


----------



## Izzy4895 (Mar 15, 2018)

Rochat said:


> Ok - odd question - has anyone used electronic hearing protection in a fursuit to enhance your hearing?



I neither use electronic hearing protection nor wear a fursuit. 

I glanced at some Gen. 5 Glocks earlier today, but aside from the fact that people finally have the option of getting tritium sights from the factory, I never found them particularly appealing.  What can they do that the earlier generation Glocks I own can't?


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 16, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> What the hell is the deal with Gen 5 anyway? Glock only started making the Gen 4 models like two weeks ago.



I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to be some sort of marketing gimmick.  It uses a different barrel (this "Marksman Barrel" is allegedly something like 50% more accurate, but the older Glocks are already mechanically accurate), and internally, many of the parts are different than those of previous generations.  The magazine well is flared, and  I suppose the ambidextrous slide catch is nice for left-handed people who use such a thing, but I personally "slingshot" the slide (granted, I am right-handed, but I would still do the same thing if I were left-handed) when reloading (I would probably lose fine motor control in a defensive handgun situation due to an adrenaline dump; I am not going to trust hitting that small piece of metal with my thumb in such as situation), but was it really necessary to redesign the internal parts?  Aside from the Gen 4 models being out since 2010, Glock's entry for the US Army's MHS program to replace the Beretta M9 was rejected (the new Glock 19X they are marketing is clearly based on their rejected MHS entry).  I _do_ like Glock handguns, although I am not blindly devoted to them.  Glock was late to the party with a single stack, subcompact 9mm carry gun (IMO, the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield is more gun for less money in this category), and I don't see any compelling reason to jump on getting a Gen. 5.


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 17, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> That's another thing that bothers me. The non-interchangeability of parts and the addition of new ones with the unnecessary complexity that adds to the overall design. There's no way I'd be interested in getting the supposed "latest and greatest" thing from Glock if they don't have a standard for parts and I can't swap between different generations. That was one of the reasons I was never interested in the Gen 4s



Toward the end of 2010, I obtained a concealed carry permit, and I didn't want to "dress around" my Gen. 3 Glock 17 in order to carry it.  After comparing the Glock 19 to the Glock 26, I went for the Glock 19.  In the process, I decided to buy one of the then newly designed Gen. 4 Glock 19's.  Like many other owners of those early Gen. 4 9mm variants, I ended up with a gun that would occasionally jam with more weakly loaded target ammunition.  Fortunately, it ran flawlessly with "hotter" self-defense loads, but it took two recoil spring assembly recalls (Glock, of course, did not call them recalls) and the installation of a different ejector to get the gun to run reliably with all types of ammunition.  In their pursuit of "perfection", Glock originally put recoil spring assemblies designed for .40 S&W in these guns.  The problems were later ironed out (this Glock 19 is still my carry gun), but it just showed that Glock got complacent by leading the industry for so long.  The Gen. 4 recoil spring assembly is said to reduce recoil more than the Gen. 1-3 ones, and they are rated to last longer.  However, the recoil on these guns is negligible as it is. 



> I'm perfectly okay with the Gen 3s. I really don't get the newer gen models at all. What do they _really_ bring to the table that makes them such an improvement over a Gen 3? If the company's slogan is "Glock Perfection", then why do they keep trying to "perfect" the design? The Gen 3s are more than adequate and will go bang every single time, all day, every day, with the utmost simplicity and no frills, and perfectly acceptable accuracy. The only real improvement that I can see with the newer gen guns is the larger mag release button, and that's about it



Now that I think of it, I could see some purpose in buying a Gen. 5, _assuming that the buyer in question cannot stand the finger grooves on Gen. 3 and Gen. 4._



> The only thing that really _needs_ to be improved on with Glocks, imo, is some good, durable steel sights as the factory standard, instead of the cheap plastic ones they throw on.



Indeed.  Truthfully, I never had a problem with the "bucket and post" sighting system in itself, but I swapped out the plastic sights for steel sights with tritium inserts (they are of the typical three dot type).  For what one pays for a Glock, those guns should come with steel sights at the very least (Smith & Wesson still makes a profit on selling their polymer framed M&P line with steel sights from the factory for less than Glock's offerings).  IMO, it would be nice if Glocks were a bit more ergonomic, but I don't have a problem with holding them (there are other guns out there that feel better in my hand, viz. the CZ-75).


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 17, 2018)

My favorite CCW weapon is a mil-surp Makarov PMM. A great little Russian pistol that you just can't break.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 18, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> You live in California though, are you saying that you actually carry there with one of those very hard-to-get Cali concealed carry permits? I thought it was almost impossible for most people to get one.


Former LEO. My converted to civilian CCW is still valid and I also hold a card (and I'm bonded) for work as an armed CCW plainclothes bodyguard.

BTW, if you're going to concealed carry weapons, I'm going to strongly suggest you get an insurance policy that will cover you up to about $10M, just in case you do use your weapon in self defense and the decedent's family gets real pissy and sues you for wrongful death. Mine costs $278 per year although if I let it lapse, they will not reinstate me because they actually want out of the biz of insuring shootists. I'm not sure how cheap the NRA Carry Guard or USCCA Self-Defense Shield insurance policies are or how much they will cover.


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## striker479 (Mar 18, 2018)

Personally I hate Glocks, even though I'm issued a G19 Gen4. Doesn't fit my hands right and too small. I prefer to use my off duty pistol which is my IWI Jericho 941/Baby Eagle when I can. I didn't see much of any differences between the gen 4 and 5 for glocks when I put them side by side.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 18, 2018)

striker479 said:


> Personally I hate Glocks, even though I'm issued a G19 Gen4. Doesn't fit my hands right and too small. I prefer to use my off duty pistol which is my IWI Jericho 941/Baby Eagle when I can. I didn't see much of any differences between the gen 4 and 5 for glocks when I put them side by side.


I carried that Gen-1 Glock 19 on duty. I was not happy with it from the word go due to that trigger-mounted safety and the general crap-tastic ergonomics. One noob patrolman shot himself in the thigh and another vented the floorboard of his Chebbie Crap-price cruiser. That was in the first ninety days of issue. I finally got clearance to carry a Para-Ordinance (now PARA) .45 Auto with a double stack 14 rd. magazine to replace that Glock. Something I felt was more familiar and I was proficient with. Besides, why carry 9mm when you can carry .45 ACP, a major power round?


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## striker479 (Mar 18, 2018)

For handguns I've shot and personally liked it's of course the Jericho then the standard M9 followed by the FNX45. I get a chuckle at the reactions i get from Glock enthusiasts when I tell them that I hate Glocks. However it doesn't get you on good terms much when your supervisors are Glock enthusiasts too.


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 18, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Former LEO. My converted to civilian CCW is still valid and I also hold a card (and I'm bonded) for work as an armed CCW plainclothes bodyguard.
> 
> BTW, if you're going to concealed carry weapons, I'm going to strongly suggest you get an insurance policy that will cover you up to about $10M, just in case you do use your weapon in self defense and the decedent's family gets real pissy and sues you for wrongful death. Mine costs $278 per year although if I let it lapse, they will not reinstate me because they actually want out of the biz of insuring shootists. I'm not sure how cheap the NRA Carry Guard or USCCA Self-Defense Shield insurance policies are or how much they will cover.



It may not be a bad idea to look into that. Hopefully I will NEVER have to even draw my carry gun, but one can still end up in court if he/she turns out to be legitimately using self-defense. Obviously, I wouldn’t trust an overworked public defender; I would need my own attorney. I have heard that such insurance would cover legal fees like that (I am already bogged down with making payments on a virtually worthless college degree; I don’t need even more debt). 




Kellan Meig'h said:


> I carried that Gen-1 Glock 19 on duty. I was not happy with it from the word go due to that trigger-mounted safety and the general crap-tastic ergonomics. One noob patrolman shot himself in the thigh and another vented the floorboard of his Chebbie Crap-price cruiser. That was in the first ninety days of issue. I finally got clearance to carry a Para-Ordinance (now PARA) .45 Auto with a double stack 14 rd. magazine to replace that Glock. Something I felt was more familiar and I was proficient with. Besides, why carry 9mm when you can carry .45 ACP, a major power round?



Advances in bullet technology have made 9mm more viable (we have come a long way since the late ‘80’s). Furthermore, as a civilian, I can’t easily conceal a double stack .45 (the .45’s I own are single stacks: a 1911 and a Sig Sauer P220). The Glock 19 fits my hand well enough to be acceptable (I can also conceal 15+1 of Federal HST), but I will readily admit I shoot better with some other guns that also fit my hands better. 



striker479 said:


> For handguns I've shot and personally liked it's of course the Jericho then the standard M9 followed by the FNX45. I get a chuckle at the reactions i get from Glock enthusiasts when I tell them that I hate Glocks. However it doesn't get you on good terms much when your supervisors are Glock enthusiasts too.



Even though I use Glocks, I understand they don’t fit everyone’s hands; I consider that a valid criticism. I am not a blind Glock fanatic, but I am unable to take some of the common complaints against them seriously, e.g. “plastic gun” or NIH (Not Invented Here). 

I am enamored with Sig Sauer’s P220 series, but I can’t swallow the price tag on a new gun in that family ($800-$1000+). One can get a Glock, M&P, Beretta, or CZ for almost half the price!


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## Simo (Mar 18, 2018)

I still just want a very ultra-high power gun, that emits a stream of skunk musk, which one can, in fact, buy. (the skunk musk, not the gun!) I have looked into this idea, but it does not seem such a weapon really exists, that would be small enough, with enough pressure, to work! Maybe somebody will invent one.

But never owned a gun; have had too many dark moods/spells/episodes, where, if I had one, I might not be here, typing this. So I've avoided it, just for practical reasons, in my case, and not to judge others.


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## Ramjet (Mar 19, 2018)

Bracing for impact up here in Canada...

A bill is being tabled this week,and word on the street is giving the RCMP full power of moving firearms from any class to prohibited...

Will update...


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## Ramjet (Mar 20, 2018)

We're good

Nothing too radical...

Firearms Legislation to Make Communities Safer - Canada.ca


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## Jarren (Mar 20, 2018)

Simo said:


> I still just want a very ultra-high power gun, that emits a stream of skunk musk, which one can, in fact, buy. (the skunk musk, not the gun!) I have looked into this idea, but it does not seem such a weapon really exists, that would be small enough, with enough pressure, to work! Maybe somebody will invent one.
> 
> But never owned a gun; have had too many dark moods/spells/episodes, where, if I had one, I might not be here, typing this. So I've avoided it, just for practical reasons, in my case, and not to judge others.


Could probably fabricate one like a paintball pistol... CO2 propellant, "paintballs" full of the skunk odor...
Could be doable. And, depending on the pressure you can get in the CO2 tank you could get one of those things cooking pretty fast.


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## Simo (Mar 20, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Could probably fabricate one like a paintball pistol... CO2 propellant, "paintballs" full of the skunk odor...
> Could be doable. And, depending on the pressure you can get in the CO2 tank you could get one of those things cooking pretty fast.



Ooooh, the paintball idea is good...with the 'paintballs' full of skunk musk! Geez, I might even take up paintball, if I had those! Ooooooooh, the fun that could be had


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 20, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> We're good
> 
> Nothing too radical...
> 
> Firearms Legislation to Make Communities Safer - Canada.ca



It may not be as bad as you thought, but I do not believe that unelected bureaucracies and organizations should be able to draft restrictions in the first place. The NRA is playing a very dangerous game by working to give the unelected BATFE the authority to regulate bump stocks _and other methods affecting the firing rate of semiautomatics_; a shooter’s finger or trigger weight can technically fall under such classifications. This has the potential to give gun ban politicians all sorts of ways to further restrict semiautomatics. Perhaps any trigger with a pull weight of under 10 pounds would become an “assault trigger”. 



Simo said:


> Ooooh, the paintball idea is good...with the 'paintballs' full of skunk musk! Geez, I might even take up paintball, if I had those! Ooooooooh, the fun that could be had



Thus a skunk gives new meaning to “pray and spray”.


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## Simo (Mar 20, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> Thus a skunk gives new meaning to “pray and spray”.



Say yer prayers, fox!


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## Ramjet (Mar 20, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> It may not be as bad as you thought, but I do not believe that unelected bureaucracies and organizations should be able to draft restrictions in the first place. The NRA is playing a very dangerous game by working to give the unelected BATFE the authority to regulate bump stocks _and other methods affecting the firing rate of semiautomatics_; a shooter’s finger or trigger weight can technically fall under such classifications. This has the potential to give gun ban politicians all sorts of ways to further restrict semiautomatics. Perhaps any trigger with a pull weight of under 10 pounds would become an “assault trigger”.
> 
> 
> 
> Thus a skunk gives new meaning to “pray and spray”.




Parliament still classes firearms....The RCMP just gets to enforce what's already on the books,so no harm no fowl...

This legislation is more about better background checks for new licence holders which I have no problem with...


Maybe the ATF will ban beltloops or rubber bands next??


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 20, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Parliament still classes firearms....The RCMP just gets to enforce what's already on the books,so no harm no fowl...
> 
> This legislation is more about better background checks for new licence holders which I have no problem with...
> 
> ...



I see. I wasn’t aware that parliament was behind classification. Granted, that hasn’t stopped them from restricting civilian ownership; Canadian gun laws are quite draconian by American standards (no concealed carry, no handgun magazines holding more than 10 rounds, most rifle magazines can’t hold more than five, etc.). I do envy the cheap SKS’s and SVT-40’s you can obtain, but there aren’t any welded plugs in my SKS magazines. Of course, those who wish to disarm civilians in the USA are playing dirty right now. Time will tell if my AK, AR-15, “high capacity” magazines, etc. remain legal in the not-too-distant future. There won’t be a sunset provision to the next “assault weapons” ban if it passes. It would be a dark day for millions of American gun owners who don’t use their guns for criminal purposes. Only the criminals and oligarchs would win.


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 20, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I was going to say something along those lines, but you beat me to it. I've always been a little concerned for Canadian gun owners that whether or not they can own an AR-15 or an SKS or a VZ-58 or whatever else basically hinges on what the RCMP (not exactly a pro-gun organization) decides to do. This is downright scary. It seems they are basically given carte blanche to classify, reclassify, ban, and confiscate whatever they want with the stroke of a pen. This opens the door wide for all kinds of abuse of power. I really believe that Canada should have something similar to our '86 FOPA, which tightened the leash on the BATF and hinders them in harassing and violating gun owners and going crazy with extralegal regulation. But sadly something like that has no chance of ever materializing as long as Trudeau and the Liberals are in power, and seems to still be iffy even with a Conservative government.



The arbitrary nature of Canada's gun laws is clearly shown by the Vz. 58 and the Chinese Type 81 being widely available, yet the Kalashnikov being classified as some sort of restricted firearm (correct me if I am wrong, Ramjet556).  The former two guns _look_ similar to the AK, are semi-automatic, and even fire the same cartridge.  Yet, the AK makes the "restricted" list.  It also apparently took _years_ for Canadian politicians to determine that the Type 81 was not some sort of AK variant. 



> I too have noticed these recurrent apparent signs of the NRA waffling when the political pressure starts to reach a certain level, and beginning to cave. They start yapping implicitly about throwing something to the gun-grabbers as a sacrificial lamb with the fool notion that they can somehow appease them or that they need to say something conciliatory to cover their ass from the emotional tide of popular opinion immediately following a shooting. I think the NRA needs new leadership, by people who have some steel in their backbone and the courage of their convictions to stand firm against the anti-gun temper tantrums that follow mass shootings. I have no confidence in the NRA as long as LaPierre is EVP. I don't trust the NRA today to be a reliable and stalwart defender of the 2A. This is the reason why I support the GOA instead.



The NRA has a corporate structure, and their coffers fill more quickly (the same is true of the manufacturers they represent) if there is some sort of perceived threat to civilian firearm ownership (while Obama talked about restrictions during his second term, a cursory glance showed the votes weren't there for one at the federal level.  This didn't stop them from whipping up a panic to drive demand and profitability through the roof.  Ammunition shelves were largely empty for the better part of a year after the Sandy Hook panic they fomented!).  The 2016 election didn't turn out as they were probably thinking it would, and as a result, the gun and ammunition industries are in a slump right now.  Opportunism is being put in place of principle.  Furthermore, the gun ban lobby does not simply want "common sense" gun control; _*they ultimately want a complete ban on civilian gun ownership.*_  If we give them an inch, they will take a mile.  California has had "common sense" gun control for years.  And yet, their laws keep getting increasingly restrictive (so much for stopping at "common sense"!).  Many of the politicians saying such stuff will openly praise the UK and Australia as shining models to follow while calling for "common sense" gun control in the same breath.  The United Kingdom virtually banned civilian gun ownership in 1996, and one has to go through quite a bit of red tape over there to legally acquire the little they will let one have.  Australia's infamous ban and confiscation scheme have also not been forgotten by those of us who have been paying attention.  AR-15's and "high capacity" magazines are simply the low-hanging fruit, given that years of defamatory propaganda from the gun ban lobby has made such things seem scary in the eyes of those who are not familiar with firearms or gun homicide statistics (consistent ones, not cherry-picked ones fed to us on various media outlets).  The gun ban lobby won't openly call for a ban on handguns, as that would be political suicide (the mass support for the vague term, "more strict gun control", dissipates once you get beyond universal background checks, "assault weapons", and "high capacity" magazines).


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## Ramjet (Mar 20, 2018)

Hey hey you two play nice,we do have CCW here...Well kinda

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca: Authorizations to Carry Restricted Firearms and Certain Handguns Regulations

ATC for wilderness protection gets approved in alot of cases but true CCW is very very seldom approved...

It'll never happen here like you guys have down there...The majority of the population would be highly against it,none the less our politicals... 

Yeah the mag laws suck here,
rimfire auto rifle has no limits at least.Pistol is 10,semi auto centerfire rifle limit (restricted or non-R) is 5....
...Unless your rifle (restricted or non-R) can fire an equivalent pistol mag that also fires in a rifle,then you can have 10...
Don't ask me about that logic......I know

Thanks to the LAR ar15 pistol any rifle that fits STANAG magazines can shoot 10 round pistol mags,so my Tavor is pretty fun


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## Ramjet (Mar 20, 2018)

One thing that will happen with C-71 (if it gets passed as is) is that it will fuck over some gun owners up here...

The previous conservative government overruled an RCMP decision to prohibit the CZ 858 and the Swiss Arms CG.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ps-ban-on-two-rifle-brands-on-eve-of-election

This will bring back the prohibited status,but they will grandfather anybody in up to royal asset that has/will have one to keep it...


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 21, 2018)

Sort of off topic, but . . .

Interesting that Feinstein's name should come up. She's in her '80's and needs to retire from politics, for fuck's sake. Her .50 cal ban was the very reason I had my McMillan rebarreled to .416 Barrett. Screw her and the cronies she hangs out with. My big rifle is perfectly legal, now. Still takes at least $5 USD for every trigger pull. Ammo for a .416 ain't cheap, even if you roll it yourself.

Remember boys and girls, the Feds won't be happy until they make all of us criminals by blanket banning our firearms.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Mar 21, 2018)

Get yourselves polymer 80's you'll be glad you did!


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 21, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Hey hey you two play nice,we do have CCW here...Well kinda
> 
> laws-lois.justice.gc.ca: Authorizations to Carry Restricted Firearms and Certain Handguns Regulations
> 
> ...



I wasn't aware of that.  Like some of the more restrictive states in the USA, concealed carry technically exists, but it is seldom approved.  Fortunately, I live in a "shall issue" state for concealed carry (unless a legally valid reason can be found to deny you a permit, the county sheriff *must* issue someone a carry permit who clears a background check and has proof of passing a concealed carry course).  That loophole about an AR-15 pistol magazine being put into a rifle is interesting, even though far from ideal.  Hopefully we won't end up getting stuck with 10 round magazine limits over here in the United States.  We can't rule that out in the perhaps not-too-distant future with the anti-gun hysteria being whipped up nowadays.  I am not the oldest guy in the world, but I have honestly never seen such vitriol directed against gun owners before.  YouTube has changed its Terms of Service to make it harder for gun channels to post videos, and this was deliberately done to start denying us a platform to reach out to people in the "middle" while they are browsing YouTube on their tablets and smartphones (good luck finding a widely viewed alternative to Google/Alphabet's virtual monopoly, YouTube). 



Shane McNair said:


> I made many of the same points in this thread, see my long ass post there: forums.furaffinity.net: Failure to act on gun control costing us lives
> 
> I do have to strongly disagree on one thing, though. The NRA didn't have to "whip up panic" after Sandy Hook. It was not the NRA that caused the mass, nationwide panic-buying sprees. After Sandy Hook, there was a very strong and concerted effort to shove sweeping gun control laws down our throats, at a time when the Dems had majorities in both houses of Congress and Reid was in charge of the Senate. After that shooting happened, the political mood and media shitstorm was such that Feinstein and Schumer must have been giddy with delight at having their first major opportunity to push and possibly get their gun control agenda through in nearly two decades. Even if the votes ultimately weren't there, that doesn't mean that they couldn't have been successful that time. It is well known that Obama has always been fervently anti-gun and that he was always ready to push hard to advance the disarmament agenda. Everything from his post Sandy Hook gun control rhetoric and fake crocodile tears, to banning the re-importation of surplus rifles from Korea by EO, to his DoJ's Operation Fast and Furious shenanigans were more than enough to elevate my concern. The NRA has never had to do or say anything to encourage me, a politically aware gun owner, to buy another gun or be worried, and they never did. Obama, Holder, et al and all the crap that went on during the '08 election and his presidency was enough to do that.
> 
> ...



If a few associates and myself were able to do basic research and conclude that the votes were not there while the Sandy Hook panic started, the NRA could have done the same thing with all of their legislative experience.  They could have very easily pointed out that what was being proposed by the Obama administration at the time was political grandstanding designed to divert people's attention away from other, more pressing issues (Obama's "honeymoon period" was fizzling out at this time; every politician needs a scapegoat for diversionary purposes).  There was also a big panic during Obama's first term, even though he said very little about gun control at the time.  Regardless of what one thinks on this, I also feel the NRA is making a mistake by making firearm ownership seem like such a partisan issue.  Ronald Reagan and George Bush, Sr. were some of the biggest gun grabbers in the course of my lifetime; it's not a simple "liberal vs. conservative" issue ,even if many prominent gun ban politicians and media figure happen to be liberals (and some gun owners like me are neither of those two things).  I would prefer a united front approach where the main criterion is: do you support civilian firearm ownership, including things like the AR-15?  It should come off as more of a "Yes or no" question regardless of one's political affiliation.  We have an immensely powerful, ruthless, and downright dishonest common enemy here. 



> Maybe not now, but they certainly have in the past. Decades ago, before the anti-gunners turned their attention to black rifles and scary looking semi auto guns, restricting and banning handguns was at the top of their agenda. The Brady Campaign's initial focus after being established was to go after handguns. Today, it is still an agenda item, but now it is only second on the list, after a certain rifle designed by Eugene Stoner and other similar designs.



I am not doubting that in the slightest.  I am simply saying they have focused their main target away from handguns _for the time being_, as the support for such a thing isn't there (it would take a protracted propaganda campaign following a successful "Assault Weapons Ban", and even then, it probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster based on the legal precedent of _District of Columbia v. Heller_.  It's much easier to go after "assault rifles" like the AR-15 and the Kalashnikov at this point.  For a lesson on this, let us take a look at What people like Schumer wanted to add to the 1994 restrictions that were put in place.

Key examples include:


Requiring anyone possessing more than 20 firearms or over 1000 rounds (Yes, over a thousand rounds, you read that correctly!) to obtain an _arsenal license_.  This would have required fingerprinting, a $300 tax for three years, a $100K insurance policy, and meeting zoning requirements.
Registration of _all_ handguns. 

Requiring anyone planning on purchasing a handgun to have a state issued license to purchase them.  A safety course was a planned requirement, and this license was only good for two years. 



Kellan Meig'h said:


> Sort of off topic, but . . .
> 
> Interesting that Feinstein's name should come up. She's in her '80's and needs to retire from politics, for fuck's sake. Her .50 cal ban was the very reason I had my McMillan rebarreled to .416 Barrett. Screw her and the cronies she hangs out with. My big rifle is perfectly legal, now. Still takes at least $5 USD for every trigger pull. Ammo for a .416 ain't cheap, even if you roll it yourself.
> 
> Remember boys and girls, the Feds won't be happy until they make all of us criminals by blanket banning our firearms.



I wish I could refrain from mentioning her, but after all of these years, she is still a key player in the gun prohibition movement.  Her agenda is a "death by a thousand cuts" approach that culminates in a complete ban on civilian firearm ownership (well, with the exception of the wealthy and well-connected).



DarkoKavinsky said:


> Get yourselves polymer 80's you'll be glad you did!



My Glocks already have the factory polymer frames.  Additionally, I still have a stripped AR-15 lower receiver sitting around (I don't have any builds planned at the moment, but it was hard to resist buying it for something like $50.00).


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## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 23, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> For a lesson on this, let us take a look at What people like Schumer wanted to add to the 1994 restrictions that were put in place.
> 
> Key examples include:
> 
> ...


Yeah, I would have been filling out paperwork for weeks if this cr@ptastic POS idea had passed into law. Hell, I have at least 10K rounds of Winchester Super-X .22lr ammo on hand at any given time. If I shoot it up, I replenish it. They don't need my fingerprints, the DEA and the ATF both have copies already. Insurance policy, I have that covered, too. Not sure about zoning, though. I'm going to be moving right next (across the side street) to a church so what were the zonings suggested? I might have failed that although being former LEO gave me a few benefits. Zoning exempt mighta been a thing . . .

I am not for firearms registration of any type with the exception of fully automatic weapons. Those have been regulated since 1968 so let that one ride. I do believe a handgun permit should be a requirement. Go to a class, take a written test, do a practical with each type of firearm you own or want to purchase. Make it expire every five years so you have to say current. California already does something to this effect. Might keep a few loose screws from getting a weapon that they really don't need.

And the possibility exists that greater than 10 round magazine ban may stick here in Cali. A judge blocked the new law last year but the state is still gearing up to fight tooth and nail for it. Thankfully, my big capacity magazines are waiting for me in the Hoosier State. I'm tellin' ya, I can't wait to leave this screwed up state run by Gov. Moonbeam and the corrupt gun grabbers in office.


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## Telnac (Mar 26, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I am not for firearms registration of any type with the exception of fully automatic weapons. Those have been regulated since 1968 so let that one ride. I do believe a handgun permit should be a requirement. Go to a class, take a written test, do a practical with each type of firearm you own or want to purchase. Make it expire every five years so you have to say current. California already does something to this effect. Might keep a few loose screws from getting a weapon that they really don't need.
> 
> And the possibility exists that greater than 10 round magazine ban may stick here in Cali. A judge blocked the new law last year but the state is still gearing up to fight tooth and nail for it. Thankfully, my big capacity magazines are waiting for me in the Hoosier State. I'm tellin' ya, I can't wait to leave this screwed up state run by Gov. Moonbeam and the corrupt gun grabbers in office.


I'm all for making it a requirement to pass a gun safety class a purchase a firearm. Far too many ppl think hiding your gun keeps it safe from kids.  Bad news: remember how easy it was to find your father's porn collection? Your kids will find your hidden guns just as easily. Lock those things up!

In CA it's still legal to disassemble your high capacity mags & keep all the parts in a plastic bag. That's what I'm doing until I can move to a sane state.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 29, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I'm all for making it a requirement to pass a gun safety class a purchase a firearm. Far too many ppl think hiding your gun keeps it safe from kids.  Bad news: remember how easy it was to find your father's porn collection? Your kids will find your hidden guns just as easily. Lock those things up!
> 
> In CA it's still legal to disassemble your high capacity mags & keep all the parts in a plastic bag. That's what I'm doing until I can move to a sane state.


The Peoples Republic of Kalifornistan has literally fallen down the wrong rabbit hole with the firearms regulations. While some say it's safe to keep the hi-cap magazines disassembled, there is just too much risk in doing so. I don't care if a judge did file an injunction to that stoopid piece of legislature, I was concerned about Johnnie The Misguided Lawman arresting me for said hi-cap magazines should he ever have reason to enter my residence with a warrant. And that's disregarding the fact I'm former LEO.

Just last weekend, I'm at the range with my daughter, busting a few .22lr caps just to stay proficient. That means we're using the .22lr only AR-pattern rifles for this purpose. To be precise, built with Nodak Spud lowers marked ".22lr only" for caliber. I *do not have* 5.56 NATO bolt assemblies or magazines for them. The were built to replicate the no forward assist slick sides (designation XM16E1) I carried in the USAF but be cheap to shoot. We had a misguided County Sheriff's Deputy question them and almost arrest me until he reasoned neither one would not chamber a 5.56 NATO round. He didn't try to load a magazine but they only hold ten rounds. They are the same outside dimensions as a normal 20 round NATO magazine. Not a real big deal on the surface since I would have been released when we got to the station had he not noticed the little rimfire only issue. On the other hand, it could have ended with a warrant to search my house for whatever they thought they could find if I couldn't be booked for the two rifles in question.

I can't wait to leave this gods-forsaken state. I'm out in October so then it will be Mid-West, here I come!


----------



## Jarren (Mar 29, 2018)

Got the new 'girl' some new 'clothes' 
I think she looks good in green. Plus, I finally got to break her in at the range, and she runs like a dream. Especially once I got that red-dot zeroed. I'll also say, Magpul makes a mighty fine grip. It's so comfortable.


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 29, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Got the new 'girl' some new 'clothes'
> I think she looks good in green. Plus, I finally got to break her in at the range, and she runs like a dream. Especially once I got that red-dot zeroed. I'll also say, Magpul makes a mighty fine grip. It's so comfortable.





Very very nice!!!

Love Magpul furniture.
When I had my DDM4V5 she was decked out with a CTR and MOE pistol grip...

How do you like the MOE SL?
Is it just a different style to the original MOE?Or does it have a stock lock like the CTR?

I do miss my AR15's
Wouldn't trade the Tavor for one though,but all this BS ban crap makes me want to get another one just out of spite

Btw good taste in optics,Vortex Sparc right?
Love my strikefireII...


----------



## Jarren (Mar 29, 2018)

No stock lock, it's fully adjustable, I just run it fully extended because I need a length of pull a mile long if I wanna be comfortable. As for how I like it, it's all so much more comfortable than the stock M4 style furniture. Better ergonomics all around and much more comfortable/controllable. Probably gonna grab a foregrip for her and a flashlight and she'll be set up just how I want. Question is, is there really that much of a benefit to an angled foregrip over a vertical one? I can't imagine the angled one is much more comfortable or steady...


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 29, 2018)

Jarren said:


> No stock lock, it's fully adjustable, I just run it fully extended because I need a length of pull a mile long if I wanna be comfortable. As for how I like it, it's all so much more comfortable than the stock M4 style furniture. Better ergonomics all around and much more comfortable/controllable. Probably gonna grab a foregrip for her and a flashlight and she'll be set up just how I want. Question is, is there really that much of a benefit to an angled foregrip over a vertical one? I can't imagine the angled one is much more comfortable or steady...



I preferred the angled magpul AFG over the vertical one that came with my DD...Much easier to bench or rest on objects too...

Hard to say though.I'd try both first...
Moving from target to target was faster/easier with the straight vertical for me,still prefer an angled grip though...


----------



## Izzy4895 (Mar 30, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Well, I don't know about that. You may have been correct in your finding that the votes in congress were not there to pass sweeping gun control legislation, and you are correct that Obama was grandstanding, but that still doesn't mean that there wasn't a real threat. I believe that the reason why the votes were not there was largely because members of congress were having their offices flooded with such a torrent of emails and calls from their constituents demanding that they back away from gun control that they thought better of the idea after fully realizing the dire threat to their political careers if they did the opposite



I still don't see how a massive organization like the NRA could have failed to see what a few people and myself managed to see (we are talking a massive organization with decades of legislative experience vs. a few working class guys on the internet).  There has always been a threat to civilian firearm ownership; such a thing is undeniable.  However, we must appraise that threat as it is instead of playing it up to be something more than it actually is at a given moment.  It's one thing to keep pressure on politicians, but it is quite another to overplay a threat.  Nothing sells guns like a panic, so the NRA and the manufacturers they represent have a vested interest in playing up such things (let us keep in mind that the profiteering NRA revoked the invitation of the USCCA to attend an annual NRA meeting; USCCA's insurance is competition to theirs).  Ordinary gun owners, on the other hand, lose out by paying panic prices.  In a certain sense, it also blew up in manufacturers' face, given that all of that ramped up panic production resulted in a glut of firearms and parts that persists to this day.



> Another thing, though. Why should the NRA (or anybody else) downplay or trivialize the threat? This is totally counterproductive to efforts to preserve the 2A, and would be irresponsible for them as an organization that is in the lead position in the cause to defend it. Whenever the antis have momentum and start yapping on national TV about what they want to do, we all need to be on our toes. The last thing we need to be doing is underestimating the threat and becoming complacent. That is how you get beat.



Giving a realistic appraisal of a threat isn't the same thing as downplaying it.  The votes simply weren't there while Obama was in office.  It was one thing to inundate congress with messages of opposition to the ban, but it was quite another to make it seem like the sky was falling.  Things are obviously different now, given that the antis have been able to mobilize hundreds of thousands of people in a rally.  Midterm grandstanding is a part of it, but it also remains to be seen how the midterms progress.  It may be too early to tell how things will progress with any certainty, but things are definitely more dangerous now than they were during Sandy Hook.  Pushing for the ATF to regulate "rate increasing devices" is also so vague that gun ban bureaucrats will certainly try to find ways to use it in their favor.  I am much more worried about what we are seeing now than Sandy Hook.  



> I absolutely agree with you on this. Gun rights really shouldn't be a partisan issue, and they don't have to be. It really should just be universally recognized that the Second Amendment only acknowledges the fact that everyone has an equal, natural right to defend their life, liberty, and property, and that means with the most effective tool to do so. In a nutshell, that is why it is in our Bill of Rights. You are your first and only true self defense, and ultimately you alone are responsible for your safety and that of your family. Nobody else is going to protect you, and nobody else_ can_ protect you.



Even if a bipartisan effort at promoting civilian firearm ownership managed to sway something like 10% of independents and 10% of Democrats in its favor, that would probably be sufficient to swing any election to the detriment of any politician pushing for gun bans.  Seeing gun ban talking points become political suicide would be a dream come true, but it is also easier said than done.



Jarren said:


> Got the new 'girl' some new 'clothes'
> I think she looks good in green. Plus, I finally got to break her in at the range, and she runs like a dream. Especially once I got that red-dot zeroed. I'll also say, Magpul makes a mighty fine grip. It's so comfortable.



I have been toying with the idea of checking out one of those Magpul grips, mainly because I am not a huge fan of the standard A2 grip that is on my AR-15.  The A2 grip is a bit narrower than I would like it to be (I can manage to get by with it, as I can with a standard "peg grip" on an AK, but I would prefer something wider).


----------



## Telnac (Mar 30, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The Peoples Republic of Kalifornistan has literally fallen down the wrong rabbit hole with the firearms regulations. While some say it's safe to keep the hi-cap magazines disassembled, there is just too much risk in doing so. I don't care if a judge did file an injunction to that stoopid piece of legislature, I was concerned about Johnnie The Misguided Lawman arresting me for said hi-cap magazines should he ever have reason to enter my residence with a warrant. And that's disregarding the fact I'm former LEO.
> 
> Just last weekend, I'm at the range with my daughter, busting a few .22lr caps just to stay proficient. That means we're using the .22lr only AR-pattern rifles for this purpose. To be precise, built with Nodak Spud lowers marked ".22lr only" for caliber. I *do not have* 5.56 NATO bolt assemblies or magazines for them. The were built to replicate the no forward assist slick sides (designation XM16E1) I carried in the USAF but be cheap to shoot. We had a misguided County Sheriff's Deputy question them and almost arrest me until he reasoned neither one would not chamber a 5.56 NATO round. He didn't try to load a magazine but they only hold ten rounds. They are the same outside dimensions as a normal 20 round NATO magazine. Not a real big deal on the surface since I would have been released when we got to the station had he not noticed the little rimfire only issue. On the other hand, it could have ended with a warrant to search my house for whatever they thought they could find if I couldn't be booked for the two rifles in question.
> 
> I can't wait to leave this gods-forsaken state. I'm out in October so then it will be Mid-West, here I come!


I envy you.  I'm stuck here until my son hits 19 in 5 years.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Mar 31, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I envy you.  I'm stuck here until my son hits 19 in 5 years.


Let me tell you this; we started our exodus plans about four years ago. At first, it seemed like we would never get there but now, not only can we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we can see the outline of the tunnel end, and small bits of a Mid-West landscape beyond. It sure looks pretty from where I'm standing. Even that small bit of snow that was on the ground a few weeks back. Looked mighty nice to this Old Warhorse.

(grandfather sage advice mode)

Set some goals, mark them down, start saving & planning for your own exodus. Make a few trips, be sure you're happy with the place you're going to. Take some pictures and hang them where you can see them every day. Give yourself some inspiration and hope. Keep reminding yourself, "I'm going to leave this gods-forsaken state for better digs elsewhere." The time will pass before you know it.

(/grandfather sage advice mode)

Food for though; it's expensive to move six very large Browning gunsafes 2,400 miles. U-Haul truck wasn't that cheap, since there is a current exodus in effect from Cali. Reports say for every one person coming into California, six are leaving. Also, it took four people to push the safes on a dolly up the loading ramp. And, the first dolly gave out on the last safe up the ramp. U-Haul was not impressed. And, we broke down twice.

First time was within sight of Gallup, New Mexico. A Mobile Maintenance guy contracted by U-Haul fixed the leaking radiator hose on the spot. Second breakdown, the transmission gave up near the Oklahoma/Missouri border. Had to be towed to Joplin, Missouri where they gave us another truck. Also bent the ramp on the first truck when we moved the safes from one truck to the other. Again, U-Haul was not impressed.

Truck was $2,800 for the 20' truck (needed weight capacity), fuel was about $1,000 USD for the thirsty Triton V10 and $418 for the flight home for me and the Tigress. Also, food for the loaders here, the two guys we hired to help switch trucks in Joplin plus food for the family and friends that helped unload at our destination. Not to mention the rental car (a Ford Fusion with 9 miles on it!) for two days in the Hoosier State. Somewhere just North of $5,000 USD for the total damages. Not cheap.

As a side note, that same truck from Indiana to California (the return direction) would have been $900 USD cheaper. Thank you exodus.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Mar 31, 2018)

I'm an ak guy. Not really a fan of the AR just doesn't feel right in my hands.


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## Izzy4895 (Mar 31, 2018)

I like shooting both platforms, but I do prefer the AK myself. Granted, I do prefer my nontraditional AK over other AK’s (Arsenal SAM7SF), as Warsaw butt-stocks are a bit short for my liking.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 1, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Let me tell you this; we started our exodus plans about four years ago. At first, it seemed like we would never get there but now, not only can we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we can see the outline of the tunnel end, and small bits of a Mid-West landscape beyond. It sure looks pretty from where I'm standing. Even that small bit of snow that was on the ground a few weeks back. Looked mighty nice to this Old Warhorse.
> 
> (grandfather sage advice mode)
> 
> ...


Oh I've make the exodus once before. That's why my son was born in Wisconsin. But I married a Kalifornistanian and her heart never left the People's Republik. My divorce is why I'm back in Kalifornistan but when my son is out of high school he gets to choose where he lives and he hates it here as much as I do.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 1, 2018)

This is why I'm shooting for Texas. Where I live is lax enough but the anti gun culture is high.

They were trying to pass a bill here which allow police to breech homes _suspected_ of having firearms.

No warrant no nothing. Thank gods that got shot down but I want out of this fucking state.


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## Izzy4895 (Apr 1, 2018)

I am going to begin the laborious process of preparing some 7.62X51 brass for reloading.  How I miss the days of cheap 7.62X51 surplus (around eight to ten years ago, it was cheaper than what most .223/5.56 sells for today)!


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 1, 2018)

I'd kill for affordable 7.62x54r brass.


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 1, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> I'd kill for affordable 7.62x54r brass.



I managed to stockpile a good deal of 7.62X54R surplus ammunition back when it was cheap and readily available.  Fortunately, I still have around 2000 rounds of it left, but sooner or later, I suppose I will have to start looking for such brass myself.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 1, 2018)

All the 7.62x54r ammo I have is steel case surplus ammo. Worthless for reloading.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 1, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> I managed to stockpile a good deal of 7.62X54R surplus ammunition back when it was cheap and readily available.  Fortunately, I still have around 2000 rounds of it left, but sooner or later, I suppose I will have to start looking for such brass myself.




2k of 7.62x54R?
That's quite the stockpile of that rare ammo!

You should talk to @DarkoKavinsky...I'm pretty I know what he'd be willing to do for some.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 1, 2018)

Go to the older, more established gun shops and ask if they have some 7.62X54R in  the back, on a dusty shelf. That's where I've found it from time to time. Also, Graf and Sons has Prvi Partizan brass for $24.99 USD for 50 rounds. That is cheap for Russian brass right now. I have some Prvi brass and it's good stuff.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 1, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Go to the older, more established gun shops and ask if they have some 7.62X54R in  the back, on a dusty shelf. That's where I've found it from time to time. Also, Graf and Sons has Prvi Partizan brass for $24.99 USD for 50 rounds. That is cheap for Russian brass right now. I have some Prvi brass and it's good stuff.


They've been sold out of that forever now! Holy shit!


Edit I bought five bags :v

Anyways. Took out my revolver pissed off an anti gun friend today by sharing this photo!


 
 Some people just can't have fun.

Anyways my 158 grain .309 diameter bullets backed by 2.5 grains of unique worked well. I'm trying to upload a photo but argh! Moved to Imgur :v





A bunch of shots were POA however the ammo had troubles cycling. I think I need to trim down the cases some more there's a visible ring and some of the cases cleanly blew off a small chunk in that area as the round was forced into the cone. 

I need to purchase shell holders for my loading tool. My press loading lever lost the cup for the small primers it fell to the floor and frankly I'm tired of that happening. The Lyman style is held in by an Allen key screw but it keeps on popping loose. RCBS priming arm is screw in so I'm debating do I buy the shell holders or do I buy the RCBS priming arm .


I've learned however single action is instinctual for me. I am much more comfortable and quicker with a single action than a double action.

Funny how that works!


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 1, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> 2k of 7.62x54R?
> That's quite the stockpile of that rare ammo!
> 
> You should talk to @DarkoKavinsky...I'm pretty I know what he'd be willing to do for some.



I need that stash of 7.62X54R to feed my Mosins in the long-term.  As long as I have this steel cased surplus stuff (mostly Russian and Bulgarian), I don't have to worry about processing 7.62X54R brass in addition to the 7.62X51 or .30-06 brass. 

I finally got around to replacing my AR-15's grip with a Magpul MOE; it proved to be a major improvement over the A2 grip I had beforehand. 

I am still sniffing around for concealed/carry self-defense insurance, but I also picked up a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB holster for my Glock 19 (my old Blackhawk leather CQC holster still works, but I decided do try something different.).  The cant on this holster still keeps the gun concealed, but it makes for a faster draw as well.  The holster was a bit on the expensive side, but it was worth every penny.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 1, 2018)

I really need a shoulder holster for my guns.

Issue is only one has a commercial holster and that's my zastava. :v


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 5, 2018)

The Beretta 92FS shoots decently, but I have always been somewhat irritated by its safety.  Admittedly, I prefer a handgun lacking a manual safety,  but if I had to choose a safety, I would rather have something analogous to what the 1911 has (frame mounted and easy to deactivate with a downward motion of one's thumb).  What's even more vexatious is how the safety automatically decocks the gun once you activate it.  Again, if I were going to mess around with a safety, I would prefer to be able to carry a gun "cocked and locked".  I don't mind firing the Beretta, but I have never gotten around to owning one of them (when it comes to a full-size 9mm, I prefer my Glock 17, and if money weren't an issue, I would get a Sig Sauer Mk. 25 for a full-size 9mm with DA/SA).


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 7, 2018)

At last finally found a rimfire bolt worthy of purchase!!!

Tikka just dropped the T1X at 2018 Shot Show.Loving the specs,this thing will give the CZ455 a run for its money me thinks..











Preordered one in .17hmr,should be about June or July...


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 7, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Can't go wrong with a Tikka. The Finns make some fine rifles.




Finn for the win!!

Yup Sako/Tikka really are a class of their own...


----------



## Dongding (Apr 8, 2018)

Wow Greenzone. You're back!


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 8, 2018)

Dongding said:


> Wow Greenzone. You're back!



my job makes me poof from the internet for short to long periods i only use facebook when i'm away


----------



## Dongding (Apr 8, 2018)

How many did you kill this time?


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 8, 2018)

1.8 million


----------



## Dongding (Apr 8, 2018)

Oh well. Get the rest of em next time I guess.

It's a good thing god is sorting them out or it would be very difficult to ascertain if you were killing good people or bad people. Killing them all is definitely the best policy.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 8, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> here's a video of me being fucking retarded as hell



Nice EF88


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 8, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Finn for the win!!
> 
> Yup Sako/Tikka really are a class of their own...


The finish target mosins are insane. I'd love to own one of them. Basically sub MOA rifle as it sits with surplus ammo. With handloads and a bit of tinkering they will give you groupings that make you think you missed the target


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 8, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Nice EF88



nah its just an F88SA2 

still think they should have gone with the hk416 just because something is so space age looking it was used in an alien movie doesn't make it good its really just a slightly better AUG at the end of the day


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 11, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Well, well.... look who's back. I was wondering what happened to you. Being absent for six months, I figured you got tired of this place and moved on.
> 
> Cool video. What game is that? Those graphics look amazingly realistic!



i wasn't home much for the past 6 months cause of work a week end here or there but that was about it 

the games called pineapple simulator


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 11, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> nah its just an F88SA2
> 
> still think they should have gone with the hk416 just because something is so space age looking it was used in an alien movie doesn't make it good its really just a slightly better AUG at the end of the day




Well at least H&K threw in a short stroke piston design in the 416 over direct impingement of a M4/M16/AR15.

Can't say much about their advertising though






No Compromise!

Hahahahaha


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 12, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Well at least HK threw in a short stroke piston design in the 416 over direct impingement of a M4/M16/AR15.
> 
> Can't say much about their advertising though
> 
> ...



nah we already use the H&K USP the browning is getting phased out


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 12, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Well at least HK threw in a short stroke piston design in the 416 over direct impingement of a M4/M16/AR15.
> 
> Can't say much about their advertising though
> 
> ...



Someone at H&K is clearly an expert at loading magazines. 

I don't have extensive experience with H&K, but I once tried a VP9.  The gun felt superb in my hand, and it has an outstanding trigger.  However, I grip high on my handguns (I cut my teeth on the Glock 17), and as a result, the slide stop kept "biting" my hand as I fired the gun.  The magazine release by the trigger guard wasn't that difficult to use, but I prefer the American "button" type of magazine release found on most handguns.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 12, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> nah we already use the H&K USP the browning is getting phased out




What's the fps/energy of the primer out of the muzzle?

Jokes...lol
H&K makes good shit.
They have a rep in the West though,

"H&K,because you suck and we hate you"


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 12, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> What's the fps/energy of the primer out of the muzzle?



fuck tab data that shits gay also primer out of the muzzle? hahaha


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 12, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> fuck tab data that shits gay also primer out of the muzzle? hahaha



Lmfao...

Look very closely at that pic in my last post


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 12, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> Someone at H&K is clearly an expert at loading magazines.
> 
> I don't have extensive experience with H&K, but I once tried a VP9.  The gun felt superb in my hand, and it has an outstanding trigger.  However, I grip high on my handguns (I cut my teeth on the Glock 17), and as a result, the slide stop kept "biting" my hand as I fired the gun.  The magazine release by the trigger guard wasn't that difficult to use, but I prefer the American "button" type of magazine release found on most handguns.




Lmao

I think they got this guy for the job:






Yup much prefer a button over a lever in the trigger guard.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 12, 2018)

I still prefer wheel guns. I need to perfect the ammo for my little Nagant revolver. 

I'd love to get my hands on an old school police 38 special. That whole detective gun. I also have the dies to load 38 special and 38 special is the same bullet size as a 9mm which I have a box of polymer coated bullets for.

Oh my Nagant brass came in! Now I can start figuring out that recipe.  

Handloading is a lot of fun xD.

Had a friend buy me out of 45 LC rounds I sold them to him at a 5 cent mark up per round nothing much just enough to cover the costs of and a tiny bit for my time. Still cheaper than the buck a round at the store for shitty ammo.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 12, 2018)

Switched out my (can't remember brand) old hollow points for my home defensive 9mm with some Winchester SXZ 115gr hollows.

I think the black coating is the new atmospheric reentry ready/heat seeking/body armor piercing model

All jokes aside hollow point handgun ammo is pretty hard to find up here in Canada in regular supply,so I was pretty pleased that I could find these Lubalox coated hollows at my local BassPro


----------



## Jarren (Apr 12, 2018)

I need to get myself a new 9mm. Just traded my Sigpro (bought dirt cheap from a friend, so I didn't lose money on the trade) for a really nice Tula M44. Will post pics later.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 13, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Doing advertising for H&K would certainly be a step up from hiding weed in the handles of stolen shopping carts.



Hahahaha you know about TBP's, that's awesome!

Yeah I'd love me some Gold Dots,so damn hard to find up here though...Saw them on a shelf at another gun store about a year ago and passed on them,wish I didn't


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 13, 2018)

i still don't get this "self defence" obsession it just comes off as paranoid like doomsday preppers in my 26 years of life i have only ever been robbed once and the guy actually dropped his firearm and ran off when i said "what the fuck are you doing!?"

i can understand having a gun for personal defence but when you're talking about getting specific bullets for a 3 month period that just comes off as crazy i'm sorry not to mention its a bad idea to have a loaded gun in the house any way


you don't need guns i don't know if they have them in US and CAN but just get roller shutters and a security door...


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 13, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Switched out my (can't remember brand) old hollow points for my home defensive 9mm with some Winchester SXZ 115gr hollows.
> 
> I think the black coating is the new atmospheric reentry ready/heat seeking/body armor piercing model
> 
> All jokes aside hollow point handgun ammo is pretty hard to find up here in Canada in regular supply,so I was pretty pleased that I could find these Lubalox coated hollows at my local BassPro



It’s unfortunate that hollow point ammunition is harder to find in Canada, given that it is safer to use in a self-defense situation (lower risk of overpenetration). I use 124 grain Federal HST in my Glock 17, Glock 19, and M&P Shield for defensive purposes.



GreenZone said:


> i still don't get this "self defence" obsession it just comes off as paranoid like doomsday preppers in my 26 years of life i have only ever been robbed once and the guy actually dropped his firearm and ran off when i said "what the fuck are you doing!?"
> 
> i can understand having a gun for personal defence but when you're talking about getting specific bullets for a 3 month period that just comes off as crazy i'm sorry not to mention its a bad idea to have a loaded gun in the house any way



Having s method of self-defense doesn’t constitute an obsession. Have I ever needed to use a gun in self-defense? No, and hopefully it will stay that way. Similarly, I have never had my home burn down or burglarized, but I still have renter’s insurance. As for your encounter with the armed robber, it was the _ineptitude of the attacker_ that turned things in your favor. Numerous people in the USA also legally carry loaded and concealed firearms without any issues. Regarding Hornady’s use of a polymer plug in the Critical Defense and Critical Duty lines of ammunition, I am not convinced it is necessary. I have not seen any widespread reports of police issue hollow points (Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, etc.) being severely hampered by clothing getting into the hollow point.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 13, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> Having s method of self-defense doesn’t constitute an obsession.



its an obsession when every time ones on here they just talk about their "self defence" weapons talking about it as if its a moment ones waiting/hoping for and you need to ask are you actually prepared for it? are you going to hesitate? have you learnt controlled aggression to stay calm and collected in that kind of situation?

to me it comes off as very odd behaviour particularly when you think the only other countries that allow guns for self defence are third world countries

i like guns ive used many ranging from black powder to 84mm anti tank recoiless rifles but at no point have i ever felt the need to own one of these for my own protection


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 13, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> its an obsession when every time ones on here they just talk about their "self defence" weapons talking about it as if its a moment ones waiting/hoping for and you need to ask are you actually prepared for it? are you going to hesitate? have you learnt controlled aggression to stay calm and collected in that kind of situation?
> 
> to me it comes off as very odd behaviour particularly when you think the only other countries that allow guns for self defence are third world countries
> 
> i like guns ive used many ranging from black powder to 84mm anti tank recoiless rifles but at no point have i ever felt the need to own one of these for my own protection




Can you not bring this stupid shit in this thread again?

We've gone down this road before in this thread...
forums.furaffinity.net: Firearm Owners In The Fandom?


Conclusion=
Some people want to have a firearm for self protection,some wish not too...

End of discussion...


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 13, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I know it's not a comfortable point of discussion for a lot people.



i guess that's my main point its uncomfortable


Shane McNair said:


> and that you should be prepared for the possibility of it happening to you



as i said i got roller shutters and security doors i did some googling you guys don't seem to have roller shutters or at least know what they're actually for (one site was calling them European style shutters AUS is not part of Europe if anything we're part of Asia...)  they're basically these shutters made up of segments kind of like a plane wing they're hollow but made out of tough alloys they're basically only for home security the ones i got are rated up to stopping 7.62 and the two security doors i got needed a background check because police can't breach them i'd be easier to just hammer through the brick wall then get through the front or back door

i'm just saying instead of allowing that situation to happen where you may have to take another life secure your house better cause it just cost me $3500 i think to turn the house into fort knox when i'm away for long periods when i came back just recently some one had taken a hammer to one of the shutters and all they did was scratch it up a bit



Shane McNair said:


> I also know that I can't just load up a magazine with any old bullet and call it good.



this isn't a pick at you i'm just sharing personal experience but to me its your weapon handling ability a bullet is a bullet i saw some one take out a badguy at 380 meters with a practice round (the cheap surplus shit they give you when you do your competency shoots we were accidentally given surplice not matchgrade) 


ok put it this way slow is smooth smooth is fast you can have all the best gear but it wont make you a better shot you need to get to the basics first and know your weapon well fuckin oswald hit JFK with a rifle that was renowned to be shit you're really over thinking this shit a bullet is going to go through a meth addict dude they're not in state of the art body armour


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 13, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> its an obsession when every time ones on here they just talk about their "self defence" weapons talking about it as if its a moment ones waiting/hoping for and you need to ask are you actually prepared for it? are you going to hesitate? have you learnt controlled aggression to stay calm and collected in that kind of situation?



Self-defense comes up from time to time, but that doesn’t constitute an obsession in and of itself (so far, my guns have been fired exclusively at gun ranges). If millions of Americans owning such arms for defense were a serious problem, we would know about it.



> to me it comes off as very odd behaviour particularly when you think the only other countries that allow guns for self defence are third world countries



I am going to need to see some evidence to substantiate this claim. Off the top of my head, I know the Czech Republic has legal concealed carry. Aside from not being a “third world” country, it also has a very low rate of violent crime to boot.



> i like guns ive used many ranging from black powder to 84mm anti tank recoiless rifles but at no point have i ever felt the need to own one of these for my own protection



That doesn’t automatically make you an expert on self-defense with firearms. Shane McNair has already made a detailed post showing that your contentions are predicated on misinformation.

As for the roller shutters you mentioned, renters like myself aren’t allowed to install such things. Yes, rentals in the US have become so expensive that one can mortgage a modest house for the same, if not less. However, lifelong employment is a thing of the past over here as well (I am not willing to bet that I will have stable employment in the same neighborhood for the next three decades, and it will take years before I pay off college debts and have money for a downpayment). I also can’t take those rollers and doors with me when I am out of the home.


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## GreenZone (Apr 13, 2018)

i don't care about self defence bullshit anymore ay

@Shane McNair  also some of what you said makes no sense US cops are actually very poorly trained in using firearms i know that might seem like a massive insult but it's true i think most counties don't even require a grouping you just need to be able to hit the target with an entire mag

where as here the cops need to get a i think its a 7 inch grouping from 10 yards and at work we need to get a 5 inch grouping from 32 yards from two and a half mags


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 13, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> @Shane McNair  also some of what you said makes no sense US cops are actually very poorly trained in using firearms i know that might seem like a massive insult but it's true i think most counties don't even require a grouping you just need to be able to hit the target with an entire mag
> 
> where as here the cops need to get a i think its a 7 inch grouping from 10 yards and at work we need to get a 5 inch grouping from 32 yards from two and a half mags



Not all cops over here are poorly trained with their firearms. Some are actually very proficient and dedicate a lot of their own time and money to practicing. But you're correct that many, many cops in the US are kind of lackadaisical about it and not as well trained with their service weapons as they should be. I don't find it insulting, it is the truth. A lot of cops only fire their weapons once a year for qualifications and just get a passing score. The rest of the year their pistol barely ever comes out of its holster. A lot of departments would probably do well to set the bar higher, especially when an officer might have to draw and use his weapon in a public place where there are bystanders around.[/QUOTE]


i was talking to a mate of mine in the police force about why here people get traumatised at shooting some one he said that its because you're never expected to ever have to even draw your weapon here i think police in general and i'm talking world wide are not as trained as they should be on weapons my mate doesn't even know what his side arm is called just the calibre

however i believe they are getting an updated training package based on our combat shooting package which was put together by special forces so hopefully they get some good training


----------



## Jarren (Apr 13, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> US cops are actually very poorly trained


I'd agree in general, when comparing to most of the rest of the world. The training time is rather short, and some jurisdictions don't really put you through a lot of extra training before sending you out )or so I've heard from many L.E.O. friends).


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 13, 2018)

Jarren said:


> I'd agree in general, when comparing to most of the rest of the world. The training time is rather short, and some jurisdictions don't really put you through a lot of extra training before sending you out )or so I've heard from many L.E.O. friends).



It's an open secret that many police officers don't train sufficiently with their handguns, but the ballistic advantages of hollow point ammunition still apply.  While we are on this subject, the US Supreme Court infamously ruled in 2005 that the police do *not* have an obligation to protect you, so that in itself is a powerful argument in favor of civilians arming and training for defensive purposes. 



Shane McNair said:


> They're hard to find in the stores around here too. One of the big box places here used to always have them in stock, but they don't anymore for some stupid reason, which pissed me off because it was such a reliable source for them. Now pretty much the only way I can get them is to order online, and it would be a pain in the ass to have to pay shipping costs on a few boxes of ammo that are already expensive to begin with. I don't think I'd ever try to buy the stuff in bulk, if anyone sells cases of it. Way too hard on the wallet imo.



I have been able to find Speer Gold Dot ammunition at a big box store not too far from where I live, but they don't have the widest variety of it (I believe they only have a standard pressure 115 grain load in 9mm and a standard pressure 165 grain load in .40 S&W).  I haven't used Gold Dot in 9mm, but I have some of it in .40 S&W.  Oddly enough, I wasn't planning on getting into .40 S&W, but I did find a police trade-in Sig Sauer P229 for a little shy of $400.  Yes, I would have preferred a 9mm, but it's hard to pass up a Sig P220 series handgun for that (a new one will retail for $800-$1200+).  The gun is a bit of an oddball in that it is a Double Action Kellerman (DAK) variant (it has a long DAO trigger pull at a lighter weight of 6.5 pounds.  It also has a heavier pull of something like 8 to 9 pounds at an intermediate point to help prevent short stroking the trigger in a stressful situation), but I do enjoy shooting it.  Furthermore, I distinctly remember .40 S&W ammunition still being on the shelves during the Sandy Hook panic, so it may be useful to have a .40 S&W variant in the event of a future panic.  As for bulk purchases, I did make a bulk purchase of 9mm Federal HST with a portion of my tax return, but that case will last me quite a long time.  It isn't something I would probably do in normal circumstances (it would be a different story if  weren't bogged down with student loans.).


----------



## Jarren (Apr 14, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> the police do *not* have an obligation to protect you, so that in itself is a powerful argument in favor of civilians arming and training for defensive purposes.


Amen to that!
All the officers I know I would trust with my life to intervene and do the right thing. But there are a few I've met who concern/scare me.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 14, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> While we are on this subject, the US Supreme Court infamously ruled in 2005 that the police do *not* have an obligation to protect you, so that in itself is a powerful argument in favor of civilians arming and training for defensive purposes



yeah in the US maybe


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 15, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Sort of off topic, but . . .
> 
> Interesting that Feinstein's name should come up. She's in her '80's and needs to retire from politics, for fuck's sake. Her .50 cal ban was the very reason I had my McMillan rebarreled to .416 Barrett. Screw her and the cronies she hangs out with. My big rifle is perfectly legal, now. Still takes at least $5 USD for every trigger pull. Ammo for a .416 ain't cheap, even if you roll it yourself.
> 
> Remember boys and girls, the Feds won't be happy until they make all of us criminals by blanket banning our firearms.



California's illegal restrictions is also the reason Barret stopped selling their product through licensed FFL Dealers in that State.

Good on you, CA, for continuing to lose revenue from a legal, 'Bill of Rights' promised industry.  I mean, it isn't like the State of California isn't slipping into total bankruptcy because of their idiotic regulations/taxation now.  Oh, wait...


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 15, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Got the new 'girl' some new 'clothes'
> I think she looks good in green. Plus, I finally got to break her in at the range, and she runs like a dream. Especially once I got that red-dot zeroed. I'll also say, Magpul makes a mighty fine grip. It's so comfortable.



Heh...
Dressing-out my new Ruger 556, now.  Waiting for my new charging-handle and fore-grips to arrive, then I can finally take it out and break it in.
I truly love this rifle, and am saving-up to purchase a second while they're still so affordable.

Good shooting!


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 15, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Let me tell you this; we started our exodus plans about four years ago. At first, it seemed like we would never get there but now, not only can we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we can see the outline of the tunnel end, and small bits of a Mid-West landscape beyond. It sure looks pretty from where I'm standing. Even that small bit of snow that was on the ground a few weeks back. Looked mighty nice to this Old Warhorse.
> 
> (grandfather sage advice mode)
> 
> ...




Hey, Kellan!

Also an Olde Warhorse (and utili-kilts are AWESOME!)  *ahems*

I abandoned CA 13 years ago, and will never go back.  What few friends and the one family member I stay in touch with down there, keep asking me to visit.  I'm like, 'Hell no!  Oregon is MUCH prettier/nicer, YOU come up HERE!'  

'Exodus' is such an appropriate word.  Its a shame California (and so many other States!), has taken such a horrible stance on our 2nd Amendment.  They're going to reap the rewards of it, I've no doubt.  I don't mean that in a positive/supportive tone, either.

I used to open-carry along the American River parkway, from Folsom down to Discovery Park (very lovely day of hiking/walking).  I used to open-carry when walking around my neighborhood in S. Sacramento (for personal protection reasons.  I wasn't brandishing a 'Pro-2nd-Amendment!' sign or anything.  It was merely what I (and a few others), did.

Then, Purdy massacred those kids in Stockton, CA.  That's when I saw the 'SHTF' mentality behind California's political body.  It has never recovered and returned to proper center on the topic of our 'Right to bear arms'.  

When I lived in S. California, south of Joshua Tree, me and my buddies used to LOVE camping over the weekends/holidays, and plinking targets to the full extent our incomes could manage.  It was not unreasonable to burn-through 4k rounds during these forays.  Of course, back then you could buy a brick of .22LR for $5.00.  Eesh...

I guess I am Olde, because I look back on those days with  sincere fondness and nostalgia.  

Here in Oregon, kids STILL enjoy these activities, and we don't have any problem with it so long as they're doing it safely and respectful of their neighbor's property and livestock.

Good luck in your escaping the 'State of Insanity', and I hope you and yours enjoy your new lives and the Freedoms we should all express!


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 15, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> its an obsession when every time ones on here they just talk about their "self defence" weapons talking about it as if its a moment ones waiting/hoping for and you need to ask are you actually prepared for it? are you going to hesitate? have you learnt controlled aggression to stay calm and collected in that kind of situation?
> 
> to me it comes off as very odd behaviour particularly when you think the only other countries that allow guns for self defence are third world countries
> 
> i like guns ive used many ranging from black powder to 84mm anti tank recoiless rifles but at no point have i ever felt the need to own one of these for my own protection



It's a mind-set, GreenZone.
Most folks I know and have shot with enjoy *PLINKING* just for its own sake.  It's FUN to shoot targets, and hit them!
Most folks I know are also former military, or law enforcement, so when we shoot and then talk about stuff at the end of the day, cleaning our weapons and enjoying the camaraderie of friends/buddies, the discussion of 'Self Defense' is often a topic.

There's nothing wrong with either of those subjects.

I have met folks who are focused ONLY on the 'Self Defense/Kill 'em all!' perspective.  Most of those I avoid with enthusiasm.

I don't look forward to shooting someone and killing them.  If they gave me reason to, I'd have no problem doing it.  I don't see it as 'Me doing something wrong'.  I see it as 'They did something SO wrong, they left me no choice.'

It's my life.  I have a Right to defend it.  If I'm present when someone else is being threatened, I feel it is my obligation to step-in and offer help/cover.  It's a high moral responsibility to accept, and not everyone can.  That's alright, too.


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 15, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Amen to that!
> All the officers I know I would trust with my life to intervene and do the right thing. But there are a few I've met who concern/scare me.



Even when they are willing to come to your assistance, they are minutes away when seconds count.  It is nice to have a firearm in case something like that happens, just as it is to have rental or homeowner's insurance (even though fires and burglaries are statistically unlikely).  Taking such a firearm to the range is also quite enjoyable in itself.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 16, 2018)

As a former LEO, I can tell you this; we are just there to uphold the law. We are not your personal protection service.

Here's the deal; If I show up at a home and it's very obvious Joe Scumbag is beating on Mrs. Scumbag, I would have taken Joe to jail, no questions asked. However, if Betty Scumbag calls me out, saying Joe is gonna beat her @$$ and Joe seems straight/not loaded/not intoxicated/not aggressive, I can't just arrest Joe. He has rights you know. I can suggest I will be back if he does hurt Betty but I can't arrest him until he does.

So, you call the dispatcher, saying someone's in your backyard, trying to get in. That isn't priority. The dispatcher will send a unit (me) to check the neighborhood. I'll cruise with my lights on, shining my spotlight around a bit to scare off the kids. Now, you call back. the kids have broken a window and are in the house armed, that becomes a priority. Me and my buddies will show up in force. Still, if forensics can't lift a print, I can't just run in all my homies for questioning, you know?

And, most people that say they would shoot to stop an armed intruder, they probably won't. I have regrettably taken a life from a meth-head that shot first in  my home after being repeatedly warned I was armed and I would shoot back if he shot first. It's not a good feeling at all. I had the dry heaves for hours after puking right in the hallway outside my bedroom door. What really bothered me was the fact they had no sense of what might happen to them if they proceeded and didn't heed my warnings. The dead perp's buddy stepped over his body to shoot at me with a little Browning .25 ACP. Really!?! I hit him high in the shoulder, then the wife unit administered first aid until the paramedics arrived. The bastard lived, tried to sue me. We sold the house a few weeks later, leaving a bunch of $$$ on the table because we had to disclose the shooting in the paperwork. As an aside, my brethren didn't arrive until seven minutes after the shootings. I lived less than three miles from the station.

BTW, if you really think you might shoot an intruder, make sure you have about $10 million in insurance to cover you in a prolonged court trial that you might lose. My day (weeks) in court cost me 1/2 million. Would have broke me if we didn't have insurance for that purpose.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> LEO


whats a LEO


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> whats a LEO


Um, Law Enforcement Officer?


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Um, Law Enforcement Officer?



ok so say cop then i have never heard the term LEO by either civilians or several cops i'm friends with so don't try to make out i'm some kind of retard for not knowing an acronym ive never heard of before


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 18, 2018)

It's a well known term this side of the pond...


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> It's a well known term this side of the pond...




you are a pond


----------



## TXfur (Apr 18, 2018)

A little off the current speaking stuff but I’m actually a gunsmith. I guess that makes me a pro gun person lol. I mostly do NFA work.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

TXfur said:


> View attachment 30637 A little off the current speaking stuff but I’m actually a gunsmith. I guess that makes me a pro gun person lol. I mostly do NFA work.



where'd that come from


----------



## TXfur (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> where'd that come from


Used to be mine


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

TXfur said:


> Used to be mine



is it real? ive held MG3's before they don't look like that unless its an MG42


----------



## LogicNuke (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> ok so say cop then i have never heard the term LEO by either civilians or several cops i'm friends with so don't try to make out i'm some kind of retard for not knowing an acronym ive never heard of before


Americans really started using the term after 9/11.


----------



## TXfur (Apr 18, 2018)

It’s a 44 dated MG42. Love this gun.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

TXfur said:


> It’s a 44 dated MG42. Love this gun.



that's pretty late into the war it explains why it looks like that i hope the new owner appreciates it



LogicNuke said:


> American really started using the term after 9/11.


plot twist they're both Canadians


----------



## TXfur (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> that's pretty late into the war it explains why it looks like that i hope the new owner appreciates it
> 
> 
> plot twist they're both Canadians


They do, the best part is I still work on it and shoot it


----------



## LogicNuke (Apr 18, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> that's pretty late into the war it explains why it looks like that i hope the new owner appreciates it
> 
> 
> plot twist they're both Canadians


They stole it.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

TXfur said:


> They do, the best part is I still work on it and shoot it



it adds to its value but its one of those things that's like do i want to fire something like this that as a limited lifespan we found a luger cleaning up a house and we didn't even want to see if it could fire 



LogicNuke said:


> They stole it.



Execute order 66


----------



## TXfur (Apr 18, 2018)

This is a postie, we shoot the hell out of it. It is an awesome weapon to fire


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

TXfur said:


> This is a postie, we shoot the hell out of it. It is an awesome weapon to fire




nah man these two are


----------



## TXfur (Apr 18, 2018)

240 is good but kind of a brick. Ma deuce is awesome, love that gun. 
My favorite is the mg34. Pain in the ass to work on but love theloiks


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 18, 2018)

TXfur said:


> 240 is good but kind of a brick.




that's the point for an actual machine gun (not automatic rifle like Minimi) its fucking really accurate


----------



## Phr0ggy_Phangs (Apr 18, 2018)

Been hunting since I was around 12, with both bows and rifles. Bows are, theoretically, more cost effective in the long run. However, I prefer to hunt big game with rifles. Arrows may not always kill on impact and it takes time to grab another arrows, take aim, and shoot again. It'll kill peasant and hare instantly, assuming you hit them. But deer? A bit more risky. I hunt for food and other material use, so I prefer to make it as humane as possible, when I hunt. I don't like the idea of them suffering, while I'm walking over to them.

I also do have a personal shooting range I practice at, from time-to-time. Yeah, it's fun. But it can be a costly sport, considering how much ammo is, nowadays. So, I mostly keep it seasonal, outside the occasional sharp-up, at my range. Not into that clay pigeon shit, n'nat.


----------



## TXfur (Apr 19, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> that's the point for an actual machine gun (not automatic rifle like Minimi) its fucking really accurate


True but hard to lay suppressing fire on move. Not a biggie but I fire the PKM a lot and it’s so much easier to lug around lol


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 19, 2018)

TXfur said:


> True but hard to lay suppressing fire on move. Not a biggie but I fire the PKM a lot and it’s so much easier to lug around lol



the FN mag has definitely made people take a knee during patrols its not the lightest thing to lug around even the #2 gunner sometimes has 1200 rounds on him

Carl Gustav is even worse though there's no real good way to carry it


----------



## TXfur (Apr 19, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> the FN mag has definitely made people take a knee during patrols its not the lightest thing to lug around even the #2 gunner sometimes has 1200 rounds on him
> 
> Carl Gustav is even worse though there's no real good way to carry it



True, I’d like to get hold of the mk48


----------



## Dreva (Apr 19, 2018)

I have no idea what the gun is. All I know is that it is a bolt action rifle, it fires 5.56 mm bullet and it deals nasty wound (if not instant death) to its target.

My friend owns it and I was offered to give it a shot during a game. However, I chickened out anyway and contented with firing powerful beam from spotlight to blind our prey while he took the shot at it with the gun.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 19, 2018)

Dreva said:


> it fires 5.56 mm bullet and it deals nasty wound (if not instant death) to its target.




its not military so it would be a .223 but the .223 isn't that big of a round mate its a small bullet i don't think you're even allowed to shoot deer beyond 150 meters with one


----------



## Dreva (Apr 20, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> its not military so it would be a .223 but the .223 isn't that big of a round mate its a small bullet i don't think you're even allowed to shoot deer beyond 150 meters with one



We killed some wild boars with the range up to 1000 metres but you have to aim for head shot or its heart for an instant kill (my friend told me that he once killed with a head shot from the range nearly 1500 m). Otherwise you would have to deal with an angry wounded boar charging at you and attempting to kill you with its tusks.

In my country though, some silly villagers made firearms using hollow shaft from steering column from old jeeps and land rovers. They stuffed gunpowder and a big bolt as the bullet. Even up to the range of 500 meters, the bullet would sever any limb it hit and delivered instant death if you hit the torso. However, as good as custom gun is, it risk blowing up on yourself. I heard that a poor folk who shattered his skull when the musket blew up.


----------



## Decem (Apr 20, 2018)

I've actually been wanting to purchase a firearm recently.  I want something to take to a range and something for self defense.  As it would be my first I wouldn't want anything too crazy or expensive to purchase and the ammunition won't bleed me either.  I'm welcome to any suggestions as well as reading material.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 20, 2018)

Dreva said:


> We killed some wild boars with the range up to 1000 metres but you have to aim for head shot or its heart for an instant kill




i highly doubt that happened you need a lot of skill at 1000 meters and i think the max effective range of 223 is 600 meters anything beyond that wont kill anything also head shots don't work on boars their skull is too thick because they're on an angle and the bullets tend to bounce off the brain cavity which is really small in the first place its like trying to hit a coke can cut in half from 1km away 



Decem said:


> I've actually been wanting to purchase a firearm recently.  I want something to take to a range and something for self defense.  As it would be my first I wouldn't want anything too crazy or expensive to purchase and the ammunition won't bleed me either.  I'm welcome to any suggestions as well as reading material.



a few of the guys on here can help with that


----------



## Telnac (Apr 20, 2018)

Decem said:


> I've actually been wanting to purchase a firearm recently.  I want something to take to a range and something for self defense.  As it would be my first I wouldn't want anything too crazy or expensive to purchase and the ammunition won't bleed me either.  I'm welcome to any suggestions as well as reading material.


Do what I did and go to a range that rents guns. Take a basic training course and then rent various guns until you find one you like and meets your needs. A lot of ppl make the mistake of buying a hand cannon as their first gun, never train with it and are so intimidated by its recoil they never take it to the range. The right weapon is the one you'll be ready to use should you need to.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 20, 2018)

Telnac said:


> Do what I did and go to a range that rents guns. Take a basic training course and then rent various guns until you find one you like and meets your needs. A lot of ppl make the mistake of buying a hand cannon as their first gun, never train with it and are so intimidated by its recoil they never take it to the range. The right weapon is the one you'll be ready to use should you need to.



correct i still don't know why firearm competency courses are not mandatory in the US or Canada we need to do one prior to getting a licence along with the safety courses


----------



## Jarren (Apr 20, 2018)

Decem said:


> I've actually been wanting to purchase a firearm recently.  I want something to take to a range and something for self defense.  As it would be my first I wouldn't want anything too crazy or expensive to purchase and the ammunition won't bleed me either.  I'm welcome to any suggestions as well as reading material.


A sturdy 9mm handgun is never a bad choice. Glock and Kel Tec (and let's all be honest here, Hi Point) have some cheap options that are both practical to own and great to learn with. Plus, 9mm some make you go broke shooting it.


Telnac said:


> go to a range that rents guns. Take a basic training course and then rent various guns until you find one you like and meets your needs. A lot of ppl make the mistake of buying a hand cannon as their first gun, never train with it and are so intimidated by its recoil they never take it to the range. The right weapon is the one you'll be ready to use should you need to.


^Also this. This, this, this.^
Not only will it get you used to a few platforms, but you'll get some good, general training before you commit.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 20, 2018)

Jarren said:


> A sturdy 9mm handgun is never a bad choice. Glock and Kel Tec (and let's all be honest here, Hi Point) have some cheap options that are both practical to own and great to learn with. Plus, 9mm some make you go broke shooting it.




i wouldn't overlook the jericho may or may not have had a cheeki one any way i'd say that would be a good defence pistol i would prefer that over an M9 or a glock but will admit have never fired a glock


----------



## TXfur (Apr 20, 2018)

Decem said:


> I've actually been wanting to purchase a firearm recently.  I want something to take to a range and something for self defense.  As it would be my first I wouldn't want anything too crazy or expensive to purchase and the ammunition won't bleed me either.  I'm welcome to any suggestions as well as reading material.


+2 on the range rentals first. You may even be able to find a local place that has some familiarization courses. Just remember it’s a big responsibility owning one. 
That having been said if you want something for range use and home protection I wouldn’t go any smaller than a 9mm. Feel free to PM me here for more info.


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 21, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> its not military so it would be a .223 but the .223 isn't that big of a round mate its a small bullet i don't think you're even allowed to shoot deer beyond 150 meters with one



Uhm,,,,
Maybe you're talking about other Countries?
Here in the States, there are few 'Laws/Regulations' on what caliber you can hunt a given type of game with.   Sure, bird, vs bow, vs pistol/rifle vary.
Caliber?
I can take a moose with my 5.56 (which is basically a .223 but with more velocity).  WOULD I?  Not unless I was starving to death, or had to shoot a crippled animal to put it out of its misery (say, hit by something on the road, and suffering but unable to run away.  I could get close enough to ensure a head shot, so wouldn't worry about mucking it up).  Honestly, I'd probably use my .44 magnum (Ruger pistol), but still...
Ethics apply when hunting (or, they sure's hell SHOULD!).  Use the appropriate round for the game you're going after.
There are no deer in N. America I wouldn't hunt with my 5.56.  Placement is key, not caliber (in my mind).  If I don't have a good shot?  I don't fire.  Ethics.


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 21, 2018)

Decem said:


> I've actually been wanting to purchase a firearm recently.  I want something to take to a range and something for self defense.  As it would be my first I wouldn't want anything too crazy or expensive to purchase and the ammunition won't bleed me either.  I'm welcome to any suggestions as well as reading material.



You're very wise in taking care to choose what type of firearm and caliber to purchase.  Most just go for whatever Hollywood/popular opinion is heralding at the moment.

If you have access to a range that rents firearms?  Go there.  Talk with people and rent a few different firearms and narrow your search.

Accuracy is literally the most important thing, unless you're simply going for a .12 and only expect to use it at close quarters. (You'd still better get-in a LOT of practicing firing the thing, 'cause they kick like a mule!).

Don't go for 'Bigger is better', either.  Same with hyper-velocity.  You have to consider what is going to happen if you miss.  Believe me, I don't care how good/experienced you are-  you can still miss what you're aiming at.  Shit happens.  Make sure if you DO?  You're firing a caliber/type of round, that won't likely pass through the wall(s) of your home and hit a friendly inside, OR someone outside.  Nothing is guarantee'd, but do your homework and make as wise a choice possible.

Practice, practice, practice!  'Muscle Memory' is a real thing!  You need to have it become instinctual.  If you have to pause to think, "Where's the safety, is it 'On/Off'?  How to operate the firearm?"...  You're in trouble in a crisis situation.
Training, and education.  Know the laws of your State, Country, city/town, etc..  You can easily become your own worse enemy if you do the wrong thing, even if you're doing it for the right reasons (to protect yourself/others).

I wish you all the best in your endeavor, and pray you never, ever, have to use your skills to end another's life.

If you do?

End the criminal's.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 21, 2018)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> which is basically a .223 but with more velocity



yeah... i know what 5.56 is i am very familiar with that round...


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 21, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> correct i still don't know why firearm competency courses are not mandatory in the US or Canada we need to do one prior to getting a licence along with the safety courses


To buy a firearm in California, it's mandatory to take a firearms safety course and you have to demonstrate safety and proper handling.


> Under _California_ law, commencing January 1, 2015, a person must _obtain_ a _Firearm_ Safety Certificate (“FSC”)1 and present the FSC—or, in the case of a _handgun_, an unexpired _Handgun_ Safety Certificate (“HSC”)—to a _licensed firearms_ dealer prior to purchasing or receiving a _firearm_


NO free rides here, mate.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 21, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> To buy a firearm in California, it's mandatory to take a firearms safety course and you have to demonstrate safety and proper handling.
> 
> NO free rides here, mate.




wrong within 5 minutes of being in a gunstore in cali i was able to buy this AK-16 assault grenade gun rifle


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 21, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> wrong within 5 minutes of being in a gunstore in cali i was able to buy this AK-16 assault grenade gun rifle


The needle just flew off the BS meter on that post! That's a Cruise missile launcher! Can't you tell by the lack of a caliber stamping on the trigger?

As an aside, I have a .44 Magnum American Derringer model M-1. Something like 2-1/2" barrel block, totally unsafe to fire anything of a reasonable load. It's kinda scary at that shooting Glaser Silver Tip Safety Slugs. They're 135g of #6 shot in a copper jacket with a polymer tip. They will hot penetrate two layers of sheetrock (a common house wall) to any appreciable degree so the neighbors are safe.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 21, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The needle just flew off the BS meter on that post! That's a Cruise missile launcher! Can't you tell by the lack of a caliber stamping on the trigger?
> 
> As an aside, I have a .44 Magnum American Derringer model M-1. Something like 2-1/2" barrel block, totally unsafe to fire anything of a reasonable load. It's kinda scary at that shooting Glaser Silver Tip Safety Slugs. They're 135g of #6 shot in a copper jacket with a polymer tip. They will hot penetrate two layers of sheetrock (a common house wall) to any appreciable degree so the neighbors are safe.




my mum had a derringer that looked a lot like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the cops found it and took it 

they didn't charge her luckily but they just said "don't do that again..."


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 21, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> my mum had a derringer that looked a lot like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about the confiscation. Perfectly legal in California. For now. Until the DOJ gets another wild hair up their butt. My .44Mag is about that size.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 21, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Sorry to hear about the confiscation. Perfectly legal in California. For now. Until the DOJ gets another wild hair up their butt. My .44Mag is about that size.



well it wasn't registered it had no serial since it was home machined by some one she didn't have a licence and she had a criminal history


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 21, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> well it wasn't registered it had no serial since it was home machined by some one she didn't have a licence and she had a criminal history


Even in California, no serial number is a daunting issue. And, a criminal record would be a trip to jail. It is legal to make your own firearm in the USA as long as you give it some kind of a serial number that would allow it to be tracked or registered. The DOJ (Department Of Justice) website used to have some suggestions for serial numbers but I can't seem to find that page now.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 21, 2018)

I like my ghost guns. Oddly perfectly legal in MN. Just illegal if I ever sell them.


----------



## Decem (Apr 21, 2018)

Thanks to the lads who gave me a bit of guidance in this thread.  I'm going to a gunshow soon with a friend who knows quite a lot about guns.  I may purchse a shotgun while I am there, but I am not sure yet.  Does anyone know of any articles, lessons, etc for general safety, terms, and so on?

Thanks.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 21, 2018)

Decem said:


> Thanks to the lads who gave me a bit of guidance in this thread.  I'm going to a gunshow soon with a friend who knows quite a lot about guns.  I may purchse a shotgun while I am there, but I am not sure yet.  Does anyone know of any articles, lessons, etc for general safety, terms, and so on?
> 
> Thanks.



If your thinking home protection, nothing wrong with a shotgun...

I'd seriously look at 20 gauge over 12 gauge as a first time shooter though...


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 21, 2018)

Regarding rimfire handguns, I am going to replace my Ruger Mk. III with a Ruger Mk. IV. While I am adept at field stripping and reassembling the Mk. III, it is nice to not need a mallet and a paperclip to field strip a gun. The Mk. IV I am going to purchase is also a target model with a bull barrel and an adjustable rear sight (my Mk. III is a standard model).


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 21, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> Regarding rimfire handguns, I am going to replace my Ruger Mk. III with a Ruger Mk. IV. While I am adept at field stripping and reassembling the Mk. III, it is nice to not need a mallet and a paperclip to field strip a gun. The Mk. IV I am going to purchase is also a target model with a bull barrel and an adjustable rear sight (my Mk. III is a standard model).




get a leatherman MUT


----------



## Telnac (Apr 22, 2018)

Decem said:


> Thanks to the lads who gave me a bit of guidance in this thread.  I'm going to a gunshow soon with a friend who knows quite a lot about guns.  I may purchse a shotgun while I am there, but I am not sure yet.  Does anyone know of any articles, lessons, etc for general safety, terms, and so on?
> 
> Thanks.


There's plenty of good gun channels on YouTube but I'd still recommend a gun basic training course. Most gun ranges offer something like that.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 22, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> The NRA basic pistol course also meets the minimum training requirements to obtain a concealed carry permit in my state.
> 
> View attachment 30907
> 
> View attachment 30908



you know what this just made me realise? i'm literally an advanced small/side arms operator having done all the basic shooting courses advanced shooting courses and the new combat shooting package but if i want to get a pistol licence none of that matters i still have to jump through all the hoops and prove i wont shoot my foot off


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 22, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> What is the process to get a pistol/pistol license like over there?



put it this way the only people i know who have personal pistols are cops... there is a lot of shit you have to jump through to get one you need to be a member of a pistol club anything auto is almost always cop only clubs you need to do safety and competency courses and then you need to get approval from the attorney general


----------



## haillin (Apr 23, 2018)

Glock 19, that’s it


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 23, 2018)

haillin said:


> Glock 19, that’s it



wot


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 23, 2018)

haillin said:


> Glock 19, that’s it


Huh? Whachu talkin 'bout a Block 19 for, homie?

.475 Linebaugh all the way!


----------



## haillin (Apr 23, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Huh? Whachu talkin 'bout a Block 19 for, homie?
> 
> .475 Linebaugh all the way!




He asked what guns we have/recommend/sports shootings stories. 
Ain’t got no stories, and the only gun I have/want is my glock 19. Why? Because it’s a solid, reliable,  hand gun,  used by thousands  of law enforcement agencies, and is fun to a blow off steam at the range with


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 23, 2018)

haillin said:


> Because it’s a solid, reliable, hand gun, used by thousands of law enforcement agencies,



see i hear people say this a lot but i don't actually know any police agencies who use it if i'm honest more seem to use the .45 Hk USP


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 23, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> see i hear people say this a lot but i don't actually know any police agencies who use it if i'm honest more seem to use the .45 Hk USP



Roughly 60% of American police officers are armed with Glocks.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 23, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> Roughly 60% of American police officers are armed with Glocks.



i know in America i mean world wide its not all that widely used i know no one here uses it


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 23, 2018)

haillin said:


> Glock 19, that’s it


P80 then you can make your glock all by yourself.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 25, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> That's a damn good choice for a one gun kinda guy/gal if you ask me. If I could only have one pistol that would be it, specifically a Gen 3 model. Also, I truly believe the 19 is as close to a perfect concealed carry piece as you can get, and many seem to agree. I've known a few other people who carry 19s. It has just about the perfect balance of small size, light weight, ammo capacity, simplicity, and is superbly reliable and solid.
> 
> You can't go wrong with a Glock 19.


A much as most people seem to be Glock fans, you will never hear a 1911 pattern semi-auto owner complain his dog used his firearm as a chew toy.

"Plastic may be fantastic but steel is the real deal."


----------



## Izzy4895 (Apr 25, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> A much as most people seem to be Glock fans, you will never hear a 1911 pattern semi-auto owner complain his dog used his firearm as a chew toy.
> 
> "Plastic may be fantastic but steel is the real deal."



You also won't hear very many Glock owners complain about a dog using the gun as a chew toy, as most of them don't put their guns in places where dogs can easily get to them in the first place.  Not to mention that the "chew toy" argument could very easily be used against against any rifle with a wooden or fiberglass stock.

Regarding metal framed handguns, I prefer Sig Sauer's offerings (P220, P226/Mk. 25, P229, etc.).


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 25, 2018)

I prefer wheel guns. Granted I think a snub nose 45 LC is overkill for anything


----------



## Skychickens (Apr 25, 2018)

I used to. Target practice is fun and I always like having a healthy respect for them. I sometimes miss my simple 22 or my snubnose 38. Okay technically the latter was never officially mine...I don’t get it until my grandmother passes away. (It was my great grandmothers and my grandmother promises it goes to me in the will so.) I do prefer my knives though. 

Guns are statistically more of a fear show. It’s the people with knives you have to worry about. They’re the ones who are serious.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 25, 2018)

Skychickens said:


> Guns are statistically more of a fear show. It’s the people with knives you have to worry about. They’re the ones who are serious.


^ this is why I want an NR 40






Looks like nothing to the "must be kbar or Bowie" crowd but it's a fighting knife made for reverse gripping and having the blade point towards you.

If one knows how to use a knife in close quarters a pistol is useless. That's why militaries have knives as side arms. Other nations have fighting knives the us has the kabar which is due to soldiers using the knife to pry open stuff.  

A good combat blade is terrifying in the right hands. A well balanced knife with quick recovery is really a scary thing to deal with.

Then again a dumbass with a scary knife is still a dumbass.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 25, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> Nick Young GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY







How do you not understand the importance of a close combat knife?

I grew up in a ghetto and frankly a knife can do so much more. Close quarters combat does happen.


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 25, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> How do you not understand the importance of a close combat knife?
> 
> I grew up in a ghetto and frankly a knife can do so much more. Close quarters combat does happen.



i deleted it cause i couldn't get the FUCKING GIF TO FUCKING WORK!

any way


DarkoKavinsky said:


> If one knows how to use a knife in close quarters a pistol is useless.



do not agree with that statement at all in any way actually we're trained to bash knives out of peoples hands with a pistol 


DarkoKavinsky said:


> That's why militaries have knives as side arms.



we have pistols as side arms knives are for cutting ropes

knife kills are so rare in this day and age that people who do them are usually awarded purple hearts or Victorian crosses


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 25, 2018)

this thing gets more use than my Tanto


----------



## Jarren (Apr 25, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> this thing gets more use than my Tanto


That reminds me!
I need a new leatherman.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 25, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i deleted it cause i couldn't get the FUCKING GIF TO FUCKING WORK!
> 
> any way
> 
> ...


Yes but you're elite military most people aren't trained to deal with that shit and most backyard thugs who pull out a pistol in an alleyway do so at range that is lower single digit meters at the most. Even then for most people to unhostler a gun and fire isn't possible by the time the knife reaches you.

So in an urban environment filled with idiots a knife will do wonders especially if you don't hold it like a fucking idiot.

I'm not alone in this thought and there's data to back it up.

Military knife kills today may be rare but there are advantages to a blade. I'm not going to argue with you in a modern military engagement in the civilized world such things arent rare.  As close quarters is not a thing you want to be in.

But in a self defense scenario it has merits.


----------



## TXfur (Apr 25, 2018)

If you are close enough to get in a knife fight in a modern battlefield all kinds of shit has gone wrong


----------



## GreenZone (Apr 25, 2018)

Jarren said:


> That reminds me!
> I need a new leatherman.



these are pretty good





i only got the MUT cause its got a lot of job specific tools




DarkoKavinsky said:


> Yes but you're elite military



i'd say like... half elite on par with Royal Marines, Force Recon/Rangers




DarkoKavinsky said:


> people aren't trained to deal with that shit



but we weren't talking about "normal people" we were talking about combat


DarkoKavinsky said:


> Even then for most people to unhostler a gun and fire isn't possible by the time the knife reaches you.



its not actually unholstering that is the problem 99% of the time its hesitation if you hesitate to fire some one can close the gap pretty quickly on you




DarkoKavinsky said:


> As close quarters is not a thing you want to be in.



but we are still trained for that





(this next one isn't AUS but we do something basically the same for unarmed stuff)


----------



## AppleButt (Apr 26, 2018)

I don’t have any guns myself.  My parents do though.  They’re pretty fun to shoot, but I’ve never felt too much thrill from shooting them. 

Though after I’m pretty sure I narrowly avoided getting mugged at a Wal Mart one night, I’ve been heavily considering taking a class to get a CCW.


----------



## AceofHearts (May 4, 2018)

At the typical distance of 7m #l, it's not out of the question a knife -could- be useful as a pistol. #2 If you can close the distance, anything is possible. U.S. Army Soldier & CPL HOLDER


----------



## Blue Fire (May 4, 2018)

Jarren said:


> So, how many around here are into shooting sports and/or own some boom-sticks of their own? Got any milsurp recommendations or interesting stories from the range or back woods? Looking for advice on getting started with collecting or want to show off some of your nicer specimens? Do it here.
> Me? I've only got a single rifle in my collection. A little, beat up Norinco SKS. I'm looking to expand my armory, but more immediate budget concerns have prevented that.


I happen to own a 2017 Mark 2 Savage 22lr rifle. I enjoy shooting it quite often and I always keep it by my side! Handy for shooting coons in the barn! Lol


----------



## Blue Fire (May 4, 2018)

Sergei Nóhomo said:


> Firearms are illegal in Canada unless you have a permit for hunting rifles and shit but why would you even want to own a firearm in the first place? Like sure in America I can understand but Canada is a nice place


You can still be stocked, raped, or murdered just the same in Canada. Sorry if that was dark.


----------



## Ramjet (May 4, 2018)

Blue Fire said:


> You can still be stocked, raped, or murdered just the same in Canada. Sorry if that was dark.



He's quite misinformed...

We can own quite a few cool toys up here


----------



## Whimsycal (May 5, 2018)

Well I don't really own it yet, but I use a rifle .22 for shooting competitions, my uncle lend me the rifle to participate and is going to sell it to me, but I have to finish paying it.


----------



## Izzy4895 (May 5, 2018)

I managed to replace the precision screwdriver I lost, so I should be able to zero my new Ruger Mk. IV Target pistol when I get to the range on the weekend.


----------



## GreenZone (May 5, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> I managed to replace the precision screwdriver I lost, so I should be able to zero my new Ruger Mk. IV Target pistol when I get to the range on the weekend.



that happened with one of my bows i lost the very specific tool to adjust sights and the thing slipped a bit so i had to guestimate for a while

at work with the old rifles we used to use a plastic disk thing i still got it somewhere but it was a good little tool it would audibly click as you turned it so you knew how many mils you were adjusting


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 5, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> at work with the old rifles we used to use a plastic disk thing i still got it somewhere but it was a good little tool it would audibly click as you turned it so you knew how many mils you were adjusting


That's why Eugen Stoner designed the detents on the Armalite (now AR/M-series) sights - one click on the rear sight equates to 1/2 MOA @ 100 yards IIRC for the old GAU Slab-side I carried in the military. Front sight was 1-1/2" @ 100 yards, supposedly. Gah, it's only been 36 years since I've had to deal with running the recert training class for my section. Anyone confirm or correct my information? I'm sure the M4 must be more severe in change due to the short sight radius.


----------



## Decem (May 5, 2018)

I got a Mossberg Maverick 88 for $180. It was in pretty great condition.  I was going to get a 500, but I couldn't find any good deals.


----------



## Decem (May 5, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Is that 12 or 20 gauge?


12


----------



## Izzy4895 (May 7, 2018)

My Ruger Mk. IV is now zeroed. 

I wouldn’t mind selling some guns to buy different ones, but I may wait to see how the midterms play out before doing that (I would get more by selling during a panic, assuming one broke out in the event of the Democrats sweeping the House and/or Senate).


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 9, 2018)

Get a Mosin. Worst/Best 250$ I ever spent..... Has turned into a project rifle, much to the tears of purists. Just make sure you get properly trained if you intend to carry a weapon, and actually understand use of force laws, and ethics. Keep in mind that half of human beings can't shoot to kill, even when being fired upon, without intense training. So know your limits and be responsible and moral. Also, swords are underrated.


----------



## GreenZone (May 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Went to a gun show in Denver last weekend. There was a class III dealer there with a very interesting item on their table. They said that for $800, I could take it home with me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i believe the training rounds enable the launcher to fire 7.62×39mm effectively turning it into a novelty shoulder mounted single shot rifle


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (May 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Went to a gun show in Denver last weekend. There was a class III dealer there with a very interesting item on their table. They said that for $800, I could take it home with me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’d rather run over AKM’s from over there than rpg’s but hey what’s a three letter word in a four letter ruled region?

I got two polish AKM mags for 3.99 each and I bought a 33 round magazine for my glock 19. Because the pistol doesn’t look like it belongs to John wick as is. 

Took my zastava 9mm and I’m stunned at how accurate that cheap gun is. For some reasons the Soviet guns are accurate in my hand.


----------



## GreenZone (May 10, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> For some reasons the Soviet guns are accurate in my hand.



i swear everything you say in this thread is "pro soviet this pro soviet that" saying soviet weapons are more accurate than western weapons is objectively wrong Russian weapons are not made for accuracy even the SVD is shit when i was getting qualified on Enemy weapons systems for the SVDs we didn't even bother with groupings because no one was getting a decent grouping with 10 separate rifles we clamped them down to a bench and tested them at 100 meters and it would always go first round was half decent on target but the rest were just doing what ever they wanted you'd then have to wait 20 meters for the barrel to cool down again to get any kind of accuracy 

Russian guns are not more accurate in your hands you are just saying they are being more accurate with a Russian weapon than a western equivalent makes no sense


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 10, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i swear everything you say in this thread is "pro soviet this pro soviet that" saying soviet weapons are more accurate than western weapons is objectively wrong Russian weapons are not made for accuracy even the SVD is shit when i was getting qualified on Enemy weapons systems for the SVDs we didn't even bother with groupings because no one was getting a decent grouping with 10 separate rifles we clamped them down to a bench and tested them at 100 meters and it would always go first round was half decent on target but the rest were just doing what ever they wanted you'd then have to wait 20 meters for the barrel to cool down again to get any kind of accuracy
> 
> Russian guns are not more accurate in your hands you are just saying they are being more accurate with a Russian weapon than a western equivalent makes no sense


Whilet he SVD and SKS are objectively bad, Russian guns aren't as inaccurate as you would expect. The AKM fires a round that loses it's accuracy at a shorter distance, but within its effective range it can be surprisingly accurate on semi. Despite the ass sights, Mosins in good condition can give experienced shooters groups you would expect out of a modern DMR. Not to mention the odd but effective and potent Degtyaryov LMG if you can find one. Sadly, the Pecheneg is a strictly military gun.


----------



## GreenZone (May 10, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Mosins in good condition can give experienced shooters groups you would expect out of a modern DMR.



Mosins were made under Imperial Russia not soviet Russia there was a distinct lack of quality after the Tsar was murdered




Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> The AKM fires a round that loses it's accuracy at a shorter distance,



i'm assuming you're talking from experience? try aiming down a bit bullet arcs aren't a curve like they're depicted they kind of go down then up then down


----------



## GreenZone (May 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> and Steyr cold hammer forged barrels.



as much as i think the AUG is an outdated piece of shit i will admit its fucking accurate ive hit out way past what the rifles effective range is supposed to be


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 10, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> Mosins were made under Imperial Russia not soviet Russia there was a distinct lack of quality after the Tsar was murdered
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Mosin Nagant was produced from 1891-1965ish, and was the soviet mainstay rifle during WWII. I'm not talking about Imperial Mosins when I'm talking about that accuracy by the way. Mosins had the same core problems in raw design before and after the Russian Revolution. Notably, the lack of any reset fort he trigger. Leading up to and during WWII, the focus was on producing as large an amount of functional rifles as possible, in order to stockpile and supply for one of the largest land wars in history. Because of this, tolerances where often sacrificed in favor of meeting production deadlines. 

The result was a few noted flaws in the rifle. First, the trigger pull was not the same between any two rifles, in a rifle that had an inconsistent trigger to begin with. Second, the tolerances for he bolt where inconsistent, which made the bolt too loose or too tight on some rifles. The sights were also ghastly to look at, if usable. 

The Fins addressed many of the above issues, and went the step further of free-floating the barrel. Finnish Mosins did not usually have original production receivers, but instead refurbished captured or stockpiled rifles. 

When buying a Mosin, you can typically expect to get a rifle made by the soviets. If the barrel has been re-bored, the accuracy will suck. Carbine models of the rifle sacrifice accuracy in exchange for their shorter barrel, which is to be expected. The trigger pull may be inconsistent, which most experienced shooters might ignore, but new shooters will struggle with. The sights are disgusting to look upon, but get the job done unless they have been worn or damaged. The bolt may need to be replaced or introduced to some 3m rubbing compound in order to address any mating issues with the receiver. You can modernize the stock, but expect purists and collectors to literally lose their minds at that. The barrel can be free floated in either a new stock, or by sanding the inside of the old stock along where the barrel rests. The rifle was usually zeroed with the bayonet on, so you will either have to adjust your aim, or drift the front site, which will be no easy task. The original sight markings on rifles from this period are not perfectly accurate, as the bullet follows a different trajectory than they would suggest. Because the rifle is zeroed for 300 yards, shots fired below that range with the sight properly adjusted will hit high. Shots fired passed that range with the sights properly adjusted will hit slightly low. Provided the barrel isn't corroded or damaged, the shots will still go to the same place, just not necessarily where you want them to go when first finding your zero. If have are a trained shooter, who has trained with a specific Mosin, you can easily accomplish some impressive feats of marksmanship. 

TLDR; Mosin good, but not for new shooters.


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## Izzy4895 (May 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Since we're on the subject now of the accuracy of Soviet and Eastern Bloc weapons, I'll say that I have found Arsenal's Bulgarian-made SAM7R milled receiver AKs to be noticeably accurate for Kalashnikov pattern rifles. I think there's something to be said for the milled receivers and Steyr cold hammer forged barrels.



While the Kalashnikov isn't a precision weapon, it is more accurate than many people give it credit for being:






In that video, the shooter used a 7.62X39mm AKM variant and hit a steel target seven out of ten times at 500 yards while using _iron sights_.

I am quite satisfied with my Arsenal SAM7SF.


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## GreenZone (May 10, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> While the Kalashnikov isn't a precision weapon, it is more accurate than many people give it credit for being:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




that's not the point of the video though he's saying to push ones self he's talking about how you can develop your own shooting abilities to the point where you can become accurate at long range with inaccurate rifles you're kinda taking away the guys personal skill and saying its all the rifle


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 11, 2018)

5.56 Nato as a round holds out better at longer distances than 7.62x39, because of the shape of the round. But the gun itself is fine. There is a reason the Russians replaced the 7.62x39 ammo, but kept the same design pattern of rifle.


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## Izar (May 11, 2018)

All I have is a simple Glock 19 for home defense. I'm looking into getting my first riffle. Any recommendations?


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## striker479 (May 11, 2018)

The 5.45 was designed as the answer to the NATO 556. For a smaller round it does some serious damage to soft tissues more so than a 556. The mujahadeen called the round the "poison bullet" due in part that when the bullet hits soft tissue it flattens out into a leaf as it tumbles and squeezing out both the lead and steel core inside. The 7.62 does significantly more damage but it has a tenacity of being uncontrollable with sustained fire. With soft tissue the round will over-penetrate doing a through and through in close ranges. The 5.45 doesn't as it is stable in flight but its tail heavy and when it hits its dumping all of its energy.


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> 5.56 Nato as a round holds out better at longer distances than 7.62x39, because of the shape of the round. But the gun itself is fine. There is a reason the Russians replaced the 7.62x39 ammo, but kept the same design pattern of rifle.




massive flaw in that video

A) its a youtuber 
B) the buttock is straight stock standard AK doesn't have a straight buttsock which causes most of the inaccuracy and recoil issues 




striker479 said:


> The 7.62 does significantly more damage but it has a tenacity of being uncontrollable with sustained fire.




in reality firefights are 300mtr+ you're not just sitting there going full auto you're going *bang!* 1,2,3 *bang!* 1,2,3


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 11, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> massive flaw in that video
> 
> A) its a youtuber
> B) the buttock is straight stock standard AK doesn't have a straight buttsock which causes most of the inaccuracy and recoil issues
> ...


A. Genetic Fallacy
B. There are a lot of reasons the AK isn't a precision rifle, but that isn't one of them. The biggest factor in the AK's accuracy is the overall looseness of the construction. The rifle bucks, flexes, and kicks around during firing, which makes firing in bursts less manageable. 
C. Burst fire and semi automatic fire are typical for most engagements, but actual firefights usually take place at 300 meters or less. While engagements in the desert, or wide open plains can occur at longer ranges, your average infantry scuffle takes place around 100 meters. This is why the Soviets started to abandon the Mosin in favor of the Ppsh-41 during the last years of the war, and why the M16 replaced the M14 during 'Nam. More bullets >>>> than range when you start crunching numbers across an entire army. 

The problem nowadays for a modern military  is that body armor has greatly reduced the effectiveness of mid-sized ammunition,  so more penetrative rounds need to be developed, while trying to maintain the advantage of smaller rounds if possible. The actual lethal effect on target can't be sacrificed either. 

For the typical engagement, the AK is perfectly accurate, but lacks in terms of its ability to fire bursts, and has a slow rate of fire. It also has a lower maximum engagement range, meaning that in the open plains, it can be out-ranged by the M16. Proportionally fatter bullets just don't hold true after a certain distance, compared to proportionally skinnier bullets.


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 11, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i swear everything you say in this thread is "pro soviet this pro soviet that" saying soviet weapons are more accurate than western weapons is objectively wrong Russian weapons are not made for accuracy even the SVD is shit when i was getting qualified on Enemy weapons systems for the SVDs we didn't even bother with groupings because no one was getting a decent grouping with 10 separate rifles we clamped them down to a bench and tested them at 100 meters and it would always go first round was half decent on target but the rest were just doing what ever they wanted you'd then have to wait 20 meters for the barrel to cool down again to get any kind of accuracy
> 
> Russian guns are not more accurate in your hands you are just saying they are being more accurate with a Russian weapon than a western equivalent makes no sense



Depends on the shooter frankly. I'm a lefty. Which might not mean squat to you, but I've noticed certain guns do not fit my hand at all. The soviet weapons seem to be more universal nature from my experience. And for me, I've been very accurate with them. 

Sorry this brought up apparently cold war vibes because holy shit you lost your shit.

Different people are better at different things. I'm very accurate with single action black powder revolvers where as my friends can't hit fucking squat with them. Some people have natural dispositions for certain types of things. 

Soviet weapons seem to be more accurate for _ME_   Because oddly enough I was able to hit 50 yards out with shitty under folder  AKM with a magazine that looked like it was used to open a crate of other akms. My tula 1941 nagant revolver is something I've had very good luck with when shooting it. 

And my mosin nagants put my friends hunting rifles to shame. So yeah maybe i'm the odd duck out there.

Just like how there's people who can hit sniper distances accurately with a sharps rifle, and how there's musket people who can take long shots using only kentucky windage. But are most people doing this crap? No. But hey what do I know? All I know is i can whip out the zastava quickly empty its rounds and make the target go ping at distances realistic to most self defense scenarios without thinking.


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> A. Genetic Fallacy
> B. There are a lot of reasons the AK isn't a precision rifle, but that isn't one of them. The biggest factor in the AK's accuracy is the overall looseness of the construction. The rifle bucks, flexes, and kicks around during firing, which makes firing in bursts less manageable.
> C. Burst fire and semi automatic fire are typical for most engagements, but actual firefights usually take place at 300 meters or less. While engagements in the desert, or wide open plains can occur at longer ranges, your average infantry scuffle takes place around 100 meters. This is why the Soviets started to abandon the Mosin in favor of the Ppsh-41 during the last years of the war, and why the M16 replaced the M14 during 'Nam. More bullets >>>> than range when you start crunching numbers across an entire army.
> 
> ...


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 11, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> A. Genetic Fallacy
> B. There are a lot of reasons the AK isn't a precision rifle, but that isn't one of them. The biggest factor in the AK's accuracy is the overall looseness of the construction. The rifle bucks, flexes, and kicks around during firing, which makes firing in bursts less manageable.
> .



Makes me wonder how a welded AK performs versus a riveted AK. the actions of an ak are rather violent.  Its simple, crude, but effective. And thats probably why you find being made in regions in huts. Because its a simple design. A moron can get a parts kit and build a semi auto AKM here. Or even take a demilled AKM parts kit reweld the receiver back together and blam it works.

Any gun can be made more accurate anybody who gets used to a certain weapon will be proficient at using it.


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Soviet weapons seem to be more accurate for _ME_ Because oddly enough I was able to hit 50 yards out with shitty under folder AKM



yeah cause that's point blank range dude... a 3 round bolt adjust is at 100 meters 45 meters is nothing for work one of the competencies we need to get is a 20 round 2 inch grouping at 400 meters on the HK417 with only iron sights



DarkoKavinsky said:


> All I know is i can whip out the zastava quickly empty its rounds and make the target go ping at distances realistic to most self defense scenarios without thinking.



that doesn't matter if you can't get a fucking decent grouping with the fucking thing

fuck... if you want to be like John wick and do all that gay tactical shit that has no use outside of the military go and professionally do it with an instructor


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 11, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> yeah cause that's point blank range dude... a 3 round bolt adjust is at 100 meters 45 meters is nothing for work one of the competencies we need to get is a 20 round 2 inch grouping at 400 meters on the HK417 with only iron sights


Around here getting anything to that distance is impossible. Ranges here suck, and realistically any shooting around here is done for hunting. At 50 yards or less through brush. Which honestly an AKM is great for!


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Around here getting anything to that distance is impossible. Ranges here suck, and realistically any shooting around here is done for hunting. At 50 yards or less through brush. Which honestly an AKM is great for!



i don't see how there's a gun range with less than 100 meters...


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 11, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i don't see how there's a gun range with less than 100 meters...


Come to minnesota. Maximum range is around 50-75 yards out. theres a few outdoor ranges that can reach maybe 80 theres some that can do 100 at the most, but anything more than that you're gonna have to befriend a farmer.


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

then befriend a farmer 100 meters is so short range that you should be getting every round through the same hole its not a challenge


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 11, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Come to minnesota. Maximum range is around 50-75 yards out. theres a few outdoor ranges that can reach maybe 80 theres some that can do 100 at the most, but anything more than that you're gonna have to befriend a farmer.


I've competed in a DCM event at a range in good ol' Minnesota. 600 yards was possible, if I remember right. I don't remember hearing the locals complaining about the targets being too far away, to my best recollection.

Just sayin', beings as Minnesota is crawling with long distance ranges all up and down the center of the state. You should feel privileged to have that many ranges, unlike Kalifornistan. We are losing ranges right and left.


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I've competed in a DCM event at a range in good ol' Minnesota. 600 yards was possible, if I remember right. I don't remember hearing the locals complaining about the targets being too far away, to my best recollection.
> 
> Just sayin', beings as Minnesota is crawling with long distance ranges all up and down the center of the state. You should feel privileged to have that many ranges, unlike Kalifornistan. We are losing ranges right and left.




thought so 100 meters is necessary to sight in the thing


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## Telnac (May 11, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> The Mosin Nagant was produced from 1891-1965ish, and was the soviet mainstay rifle during WWII. I'm not talking about Imperial Mosins when I'm talking about that accuracy by the way. Mosins had the same core problems in raw design before and after the Russian Revolution. Notably, the lack of any reset fort he trigger. Leading up to and during WWII, the focus was on producing as large an amount of functional rifles as possible, in order to stockpile and supply for one of the largest land wars in history. Because of this, tolerances where often sacrificed in favor of meeting production deadlines.
> 
> The result was a few noted flaws in the rifle. First, the trigger pull was not the same between any two rifles, in a rifle that had an inconsistent trigger to begin with. Second, the tolerances for he bolt where inconsistent, which made the bolt too loose or too tight on some rifles. The sights were also ghastly to look at, if usable.
> 
> ...


I dunno, my 1944 Mosin-Nagant carbine was the first gun I've owned, because I inherited it from my grandfather. It's still one of my favorites. The serial numbers don't match so it's worthless for collectors but it's a solid gun that consistently shoots a group of 5cm at 100 meters. If I wasn't such a crap shot in sure it could do better.


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## GreenZone (May 11, 2018)

Telnac said:


> consistently shoots a group of 5cm at 100 meters. If I wasn't such a crap shot in sure it could do better.



depending on how many rounds you're using that's fairly decent i know people who can't get below 10cm at 100 meters


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## Telnac (May 11, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> depending on how many rounds you're using that's fairly decent i know people who can't get below 10cm at 100 meters


Thanks!

I guess I think I'm a crap shot because my brother's a ex-Army sniper. He can put a bullet on the bridge of a target's nose almost every time at 100m.  I can't do that!


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## Izar (May 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Do you want a .22 rimfire of some type, or are you interested in a centerfire rifle?




Sorry, I’m not going to pretend I know the difference between the two! Looking for something affordable, reliable, and easy/forgiving to use


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## GreenZone (May 12, 2018)

Izar said:


> Sorry, I’m not going to pretend I know the difference between the two!



in all honesty bud from a safety perspective that's probably an indication you're not ready for a firearm yet but im slightly worried cause didn't you say you have a glock?


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## Izar (May 12, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> in all honesty bud from a safety perspective that's probably an indication you're not ready for a firearm yet but im slightly worried cause didn't you say you have a glock?



Oh really? I’m concerned now too lol. Yeah I have my Concealed Weapons Permit..for a couple years now. Would you elaborate?


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## GreenZone (May 12, 2018)

Izar said:


> Oh really? I’m concerned now too lol. Yeah I have my Concealed Weapons Permit..for a couple years now. Would you elaborate?




cause its kind of a big thing to not know the difference between rimfire and centre fire i mean ive known that since i was 5 and i didn't even touch a gun until i was around 9-10

all i'm saying is you should do lots and lots of research there's a semi automatic .22 that has a well known and by some people abused fault that can turn it fully automatic essentially there's a lip that wears away with use and once its gone it just goes full automatic

that might sound cool but its also a dangerous safety hazard like that's what i'm getting at you need to know different munition types different weapons and so on that being said if you want to get into rifles i'd start with either a .22 or a 223

actually ive used everything from pistols and single shot .22s to rocket launchers and barrett .50 cal if you need help you can inbox me


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## Telnac (May 12, 2018)

Izar said:


> Oh really? I’m concerned now too lol. Yeah I have my Concealed Weapons Permit..for a couple years now. Would you elaborate?


Did you have to go through a training course to get your CCW?

If you're looking for a range rifle or a rifle for hunting small game I'd recommend a Mossberg semi-auto 22 rifle. They're nothing special but they're reliable, have almost no recoil and you can likely find one the under $200. It's a great starter rifle. Once you're familiar with shooting a rifle then you can look into some of the heftier rifles or shotguns that can bring down larger game.

But if you're honestly asking what the difference between a rimfire and a centerfire round please first consider taking a course at your local gun range to familiarize yourself with these weapons and how to properly shoot and take care of them. Not all states require them but any responsible gun owner should be familiar with any weapon they own or are considering owning.


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## GreenZone (May 12, 2018)

Telnac said:


> If you're looking for a range rifle or a rifle for hunting small game I'd recommend a Mossberg semi-auto 22 rifle. They're nothing special but they're reliable, have almost no recoil and you can likely find one the under $200. It's a great starter rifle. Once you're familiar with shooting a rifle then you can look into some of the heftier rifles or shotguns that can bring down larger game.



i'm a bit reluctant to tell budding hunters to start with a .22 cause what happens? they git gud take down a couple rabbits then one day Bambi walks into the picture the shooter gets too cocky then suddenly Bambi's walking around missing an eye and half his face is infected


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## Telnac (May 12, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i'm a bit reluctant to tell budding hunters to start with a .22 cause what happens? they git gud take down a couple rabbits then one day Bambi walks into the picture the shooter gets too cocky then suddenly Bambi's walking around missing an eye and half his face is infected


That's why I said small game. Bambi isn't small game!  Rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks.  A 22 is appropriate for animals that size and no bigger.  Shooting a deer with a 22 isn't hunting. It's animal abuse.


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## Telnac (May 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> But isn't the Ruger 10/22 pretty much considered the gold standard of semi-auto .22 rifles? Personally, if I was going to recommend a first rifle to someone, it might have to be that one. Seems like nearly everybody has one.


There's nothing wrong with a Ruger 10/22 but they are a bit more pricey. If it's worth the extra money for you then sure go for it but he did mention cost being a factor. That's why I recommended a Mossberg.


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## GreenZone (May 12, 2018)

Telnac said:


> That's why I said small game. Bambi isn't small game! Rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks. A 22 is appropriate for animals that size and no bigger. Shooting a deer with a 22 isn't hunting. It's animal abuse.




yeah i know but some one who can't tell the difference between rimfire and centrefire is probably going to be of the mentality any gun can kill anything




Shane McNair said:


> I've actually heard of people taking deer successfully with a .22 before. Not that I would recommend it, for the reason you touched on. At bare minimum I think you should be using a .30-30 or a .243 for deer.



if you were going for smaller species like hog deer you could probably use .223 but i'd try finding a rifle that can chamber 5.56 without damaging it

that being said surplice 5.56 is shit unless you can get a hold of match grade i wouldn't use it for anything that requires precision


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## Telnac (May 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I've actually heard of people taking deer successfully with a .22 before. Not that I would recommend it, for the reason you touched on. At bare minimum I think you should be using a .30-30 or a .243 for deer.


Yes it's possible to bring down a deer with a 22 but unless you're an experienced hunter and a crack shot you're more likely to wound the creature than kill it outright.


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## Telnac (May 12, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> yeah i know but some one who can't tell the difference between rimfire and centrefire is probably going to be of the mentality any gun can kill anything


True but he already has a Glock. Someone with the mentality that any gun can kill anything might try deer hunting with a Glock too. (Again, technically possible but NOT recommended!)

I recommended the 22 because it's easier to learn the basics of rifle shooting on a 22 than it is on a larger rifle. But my earlier point still stands that he should be taking a training course before buying any more weapons.


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## Telnac (May 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Even if you're an experienced hunter, I wouldn't use a .22. That bullet has to have enough oomph to penetrate hide and tissue, and reach far enough to get to the vitals _and _cause sufficient tissue damage for rapid blood loss and a quick, humane kill. If I'm going to hunt an animal, ethics are an important consideration.


Yeah I agree. Best to use the right tool for the job.


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## GreenZone (May 12, 2018)

Telnac said:


> I recommended the 22 because it's easier to learn the basics of rifle shooting on a 22 than it is on a larger rifle.


i'd say so but then again it seems to be a different attitude of marksmanship principles between countries

when i did my recon course 3 years (i think) years ago now one of the requirements for passing selection for my country requires getting more than 5 rounds through the same hole at 400 meters with only iron sights there's a lot of different aspects that are involved (to be clear its Recon not Sniper Selection the difference between Recon and Snipers isn't actually the accuracy of shots but more about Intel gathering holding a concealed position for longer and all that good stuff)

recoil shouldn't matter if your position and hold of the weapon is correct your sights should ALWAYS return to the exact point of aim every time without using any force what so ever you should almost be able to have your hands open when you fire 

you fire a round it should bounce then return to your original point of aim i find Americans tend to just want to fire as quickly as they can and kind of brute force the rifle to stay where they're aiming


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> I've actually heard of people taking deer successfully with a .22 before. Not that I would recommend it, for the reason you touched on. At bare minimum I think you should be using a .30-30 or a .243 for deer.


Generally, it is illegal in many jurisdictions to hunt medium and large game with a .22 lr rimfire. I have a 6mm Sheridan air rifle that's legal to hunt game with but I still won't try, knowing I need to have a quick, efficient kill. No sense in making your game die a very long, protracted death. What happens is the poor victim ends up full of Adrenalin, making the meat taste off. Besides, I can't watch an animal suffer. That's just the way I am. If I know it's not going to be a good, clean shot, I don't take it.

.243 or for you lever rifle addicts, .257 Roberts is the minimum chambering for medium game hunting. Moose and Elk? Use a .300 magnum. Make that shot count.


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## Izzy4895 (May 13, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> that's not the point of the video though he's saying to push ones self he's talking about how you can develop your own shooting abilities to the point where you can become accurate at long range with inaccurate rifles you're kinda taking away the guys personal skill and saying its all the rifle



The point about pushing oneself applies to attaining proficiency with the use of _any_ firearm; that YouTube channel simply focuses largely on the AK. As Misha and myself have proven, the AK is more accurate than people give it credit for being, even though it is not a precision weapon (Soviet conscripts also had to qualify out to 300 meters with them, and some AK myths depict the gun as having extreme difficulty hitting anything at 200+). Just like the extreme unreliability myth associated with the M16 (the problems with the early M16 had a lot to do with the powder being switched, no cleaning kits being issued with the rifles, and poor corrosion resistance), the AK inaccuracy myth stubbornly refuses to die.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 13, 2018)

I think the funniest propaganda I have ever seen is an accuracy comparison of the AK and M-16 where the AK somehow scores 0 hits on a man sized target at 200 meters.


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## GreenZone (May 13, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> The point about pushing oneself applies to attaining proficiency with the use of _any_ firearm; that YouTube channel simply focuses largely on the AK. As Misha and myself have proven, the AK is more accurate than people give it credit for being, even though it is not a precision weapon (Soviet conscripts also had to qualify out to 300 meters with them, and some AK myths depict the gun as having extreme difficulty hitting anything at 200+). Just like the extreme unreliability myth associated with the M16 (the problems with the early M16 had a lot to do with the powder being switched, no cleaning kits being issued with the rifles, and poor corrosion resistance), the AK inaccuracy myth stubbornly refuses to die.



i'm sick of arguing with you guys because you're really starting to piss me off you're arguing with some one who's been in the infantry for 7 years and has been on operations 

i was laughing really hard at Misha for saying that the 5.56 has more range than the 7.62 that kind of says something about all of your knowledge about firearms

a lot of Western doctrine for infantry is specially about closing the gap of the 7.62 because 5.56 cannot punch out that far 

secondly all nations need to be proficient out to 300 meters that's the average engagement distance in a firefight has been since Vietnam the M16 was specifically designed for this as the M14 was decided as being too powerful and too long range for standard infantry

thirdly no Russian weapons are not accurate why the fuck are you even arguing with me about this Russian soldiers are not trained well they even know this their weapons are more for area effect their doctrine is vastly different to western doctrine theirs is more about pinning the enemy down and lobbing artillery before they can get any closer i mean fuck if they lose contact with a patrol the first thing they do is launch artillery on their last known position 

one of our section commanders in Afghanistan was a vet from the Soviet Afghan war we just compared east west doctrine the entire time 

why do you guys need to argue about everything where the fuck did you even hear that the 5.56 can hit out further than 7.67


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## GreenZone (May 13, 2018)

"oooh i fired a gun at a range one time i know everything about warfare now"


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## Telnac (May 14, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I think the funniest propaganda I have ever seen is an accuracy comparison of the AK and M-16 where the AK somehow scores 0 hits on a man sized target at 200 meters.


Yikes. Even with random chance you should be able to score at least one hit on a man-sized target at that range with a full magazine!


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 14, 2018)

7.62x54r≠7.62x39. The AK chambers 7.62x39. 7.62x39 is a slower but heavier round that loses its lethal potential and accuracy at a shorter distance than 5.56, it just isn't as shit as it is being made out to be. 7.62x54r is what comes out of a Mosin. This shit has great ballistics. 7.62x51mm NATO is a roughly equivalent round with a lower muzzle force, but retains its power across a slightly greater distance due to the different proportions compared to 54r. Bore isn't everything.


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## GreenZone (May 14, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> 7.62x54r≠7.62x39. The AK chambers 7.62x39. 7.62x39 is a slower but heavier round that loses its lethal potential and accuracy at a shorter distance than 5.56, it just isn't as shit as it is being made out to be. 7.62x54r is what comes out of a Mosin. This shit has great ballistics. 7.62x51mm NATO is a roughly equivalent round with a lower muzzle force, but retains its power across a slightly greater distance due to the different proportions compared to 54r. Bore isn't everything.


suppressive and harassing fire


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## Telnac (May 14, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> "oooh i fired a gun at a range one time i know everything about warfare now"


That's why I'm staying out of that discussion. I've had zero military training and I'm not going to pretend that I do. I own a semi-auto AK47 clone and a semi-auto AR-15 clone. I think both are capable weapons but I don't have the training or the experience to say which is better in a tactical firefight, much less their full auto military counterparts.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 14, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> suppressive and harassing fire


The AK is worse at suppression fire than the M16, due to its inferior rate of fire.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 14, 2018)

Deep operation - Wikipedia
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a022998.pdf
balagan.info: Soviet Order of Battle and Doctrine in the Cold War
Suppressing an enemy position and calling in an air/artillery strike is the oldest and most well used trick in every infantryman's book. There is a reason the US still has the Warthog around. Also, read yourself some shit.

Finally and most importantly, this is my dream rifle: www.springfield-armory.com: M1A™ Loaded - 6.5 Creedmoor - Springfield Armory


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 14, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I've competed in a DCM event at a range in good ol' Minnesota. 600 yards was possible, if I remember right. I don't remember hearing the locals complaining about the targets being too far away, to my best recollection.
> 
> Just sayin', beings as Minnesota is crawling with long distance ranges all up and down the center of the state. You should feel privileged to have that many ranges, unlike Kalifornistan. We are losing ranges right and left.


If it requires driving through the cities than it’s more dangerous than you’d think. Cops harass you here. And the cities are very anti gun.


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## GreenZone (May 14, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> uppressing an enemy position and calling in an air/artillery strike is the oldest and most well used trick in every infantryman's book.


i'm growing really tired of this 

if you're taking a position yes if you get contacted by 2 people no 




Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Finally and most importantly, this is my dream rifle



what does that have to do with anything


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## Izzy4895 (May 14, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i'm sick of arguing with you guys because you're really starting to piss me off you're arguing with some one who's been in the infantry for 7 years and has been on operations



That doesn’t automatically render your argument profound, especially when you simply ignore any concrete evidence that undermines your argument (Rob Ski in that AK Operators Union video is also active duty in the US Army if you are going to play that game).



> iwas laughing really hard at Misha for saying that the 5.56 has more range than the 7.62 that kind of says something about all of your knowledge about firearms
> 
> a lot of Western doctrine for infantry is specially about closing the gap of the 7.62 because 5.56 cannot punch out that far



Misha was comparing the _effective range_ of the Russian *7.62X39mm* cartridge to 5.56X45mm. 



> secondly all nations need to be proficient out to 300 meters that's the average engagement distance in a firefight has been since Vietnam the M16 was specifically designed for this as the M14 was decided as being too powerful and too long range for standard infantry



The point remains that the Kalashnikov is more accurate than prople give it credit for being.



> thirdly no Russian weapons are not accurate why the fuck are you even arguing with me about this Russian soldiers are not trained well they even know this their weapons are more for area effect their doctrine is vastly different to western doctrine theirs is more about pinning the enemy down and lobbing artillery before they can get any closer i mean fuck if they lose contact with a patrol the first thing they do is launch artillery on their last known position
> 
> one of our section commanders in Afghanistan was a vet from the Soviet Afghan war we just compared east west doctrine the entire time
> 
> why do you guys need to argue about everything where the fuck did you even hear that the 5.56 can hit out further than 7.67



Once again, you are dancing around the evidence presented: the Kalashnikov, while not being a precision weapon, is more accurate than people typically give it credit for being.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 14, 2018)

GreenZone said:


> i'm growing really tired of this
> 
> if you're taking a position yes if you get contacted by 2 people no
> 
> ...


A: I also included information about soviet soviet doctrine that debunks your claim, and you have now doubled down on the ludicrous idea that soviet combat doctrine is to do nothing but supress or provide harassing fire, even in the encounter of two combatants. 
B: This thread isn't originally a thread discussing the qualities of the AK- style rifles. It's a thread about firearm owners snd firearms within the fandom.


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 14, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> There is a reason the US still has the Warthog around


The A-10 Thunderbolt II, aka "The Warthog" has a specific role and it ain't suppression fire. It's role is to kill tanks and other mobile items such as convoy trucks. It's used to get in, destroy it's target and get the pilot back in one piece.

Suppression fire is done with small arms, rockets, mortars and grenades. You ain't calling in A-10's for suppression. You want big suppression? Call in the Army Howitzers. That, my friend,_* is*_ suppression.

And, for the record, I've won DCM events with AK-pattern rifles. The first time, it was a CMP Match Rifle event that I competed with a Tigr Hunter in 7.62X54R and the next year, in the CMP Alternative Rifle class with a bone-stock Saiga IZ-214 Sporting Rifle  in .223/5.56 chambering.

@Misha Bordiga Zahradník - At the CMP Match Rifle event, I beat up on a number of Tacti_COOL_-equipped rifles just like that Springfield you covet and I did the deed with a dead stock Tigr Hunter - a Russian rifle. In fact, the guy that placed second at the event shot it with a pretty much original WW2 era M1 Garand.

The event where I shot the Saiga, I psyched out a few guys by smacking the receiver three times on the right side before I would start my group of shots. Someone asked me why I did that so I told them I was making sure the bolt was over to the left for accuracy. That psych job worked on one guy, I think. And for the record, there's about .010" clearance, side to side on that bolt. It's not that an AK action is loose, it's the fact it has plenty of open area around the pads that guide the bolt for dust and unburned powder to accumulate and not foul the bolt. Most people wouldn't know this unless they have owned or carried an AK-pattern rifle for extended periods of time.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 14, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The A-10 Thunderbolt II, aka "The Warthog" has a specific role and it ain't suppression fire. It's role is to kill tanks and other mobile items such as convoy trucks. It's used to get in, destroy it's target and get the pilot back in one piece.
> 
> Suppression fire is done with small arms, rockets, mortars and grenades. You ain't calling in A-10's for suppression. You want big suppression? Call in the Army Howitzers. That, my friend,_* is*_ suppression.
> 
> ...


I was talking about calling in CAS on a suppressed position. 




I'm not saying that M1A is magic, it's just a good rifle. That specific one fires an amazing caliber I'm interested in for its flat trajectory. Won't make me any better of a shot, because at the end of the day, the shooter matters a hell of a lot more. Only practice does that. I actually prefer the version with the rifle grip. Outside of a rangefinder, and MAYBE a long range optic;


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 15, 2018)

I ended up blocking somebody as I’m sick of being attacked. Anyways! I got my polish magazines in for my apparently useless AKM.

3.99 each two polish magazines! These things are chunky and nice!

And I also picked up a Korean 33 magazine for my glock 19. The polish magazine require the magwell to be adjusted a bit. But it’s not much. Also I need to weld up the gun anyways! Oh the joys of kit building xD


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 15, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I was talking about calling in CAS on a suppressed position.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was nothing "Suppressed" about that situation; we had baddies hiding in a compound in the trees. A-10 was called in to take them out. Job done.

Suppression fire is a harassing fire, meant to force your enemy to keep his head down, reducing his opportunities for firing back at you and if done right, drive the antagonist back from his position. This A-10 action was clearly a neutralization effort.

And, for the record, 6.5 Creedmore ain't no magic round for shooting. You have to reload for the round to be effective in your rifle and a semi-auto bangs up the cases something nasty. Not conducive to reloading. You're better off with a rifle in .308/7.62 Nato, since you can buy match ammo right off the shelf that will perform stellar in most auto-loaders.

On a side note, Springfield Armory is overpriced for what they sell. Go shoot a DCM match, get your cert, get a mil-surp M1 Garand for a pittance. Don't mess around with weird calibers because it only causes heartache in the pocketbook. I have exactly three firearms in an odd caliber; a Winchester Wrangler lever rifle in .32 Winchester Special, a Makarov PMM in 9mm Makarov and a McMillan Long Range bolt-action rifle in .416 Barrett. Other than those three, I can buy ammo for anything else I own at Wally*Mart or any place that sells Soviet rounds.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 15, 2018)

6.5 Creedmore has flatter ballistics than 7.62. It performs better at a distance. I wasn't putting the video up as an example of suppression followed by CAS, but as a cool video of the warthog providing CAS. I passed over a video with that exact situation because it was boring to watch.


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 15, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> 6.5 Creedmore has flatter ballistics than 7.62. It performs better at a distance. I wasn't putting the video up as an example of suppression followed by CAS, but as a cool video of the warthog providing CAS. I passed over a video with that exact situation because it was boring to watch.


I guess the point I was trying to make is the impracticality of the 6.5 Creedmore, _*a bolt action benchrest round*_. Yeah, flatter trajectory but with less knockdown ft-lbs at distance. And, it's not exactly reloadable from any autoloader. Cases get dented in the body during extraction, making it not suitable for reloading. I can buy ammo anywhere for my service pieces, so that means if the world ever goes to a SHTF situation, I can "obtain" rounds for one of my rifles just about anywhere. With the Creedmore, once you have blown through the rounds on hand, you now have a club to hit people with. A not-so-practical tacti_COOL_ club, too. You don't see 6.5 Creedmore in any big quantity on the shelves.

As an aside, my Armalite AR-10 in .308/7.62 Nato dents the pee out of cases. Can't reload 90% of them.


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## Ramjet (May 15, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I guess the point I was trying to make is the impracticality of the 6.5 Creedmore, _*a bolt action benchrest round*_. Yeah, flatter trajectory but with less knockdown ft-lbs at distance. And, it's not exactly reloadable from any autoloader. Cases get dented in the body during extraction, making it not suitable for reloading. I can buy ammo anywhere for my service pieces, so that means if the world ever goes to a SHTF situation, I can "obtain" rounds for one of my rifles just about anywhere. With the Creedmore, once you have blown through the rounds on hand, you now have a club to hit people with. A not-so-practical tacti_COOL_ club, too. You don't see 6.5 Creedmore in any big quantity on the shelves.
> 
> As an aside, my Armalite AR-10 in .308/7.62 Nato dents the pee out of cases. Can't reload 90% of them.




Actually 6.5 creed will out perform the .308 in ftlbs once past 600 yards.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 15, 2018)

A. If things are ever bad enough I can't get 6.5, I can just use my Mosin.
B. The US military is adopting 6.5 in their new lmg.
C. A thinner cartridge at higher velocity penetrates a hell of a lot better.
D.The M1 Garand is relatively innacurate compared to an M1A. It is also more complicated, and magazines are relatively rare. It is also a mess of moving parts, which all have to be cleaned when you clean the rifle. Replacement parts won't be easy to come by either.
E. .30 is on its way out technologically.
F. Muzzle energy of 6.5 is comparable to that of 7.62, but it maintains that energy over a greater distance.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 16, 2018)

Have yall heard about 6.5 creedmore gaining traction?


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> A. If things are ever bad enough I can't get 6.5, I can just use my Mosin.
> B. The US military is adopting 6.5 in their new lmg.
> C. A thinner cartridge at higher velocity penetrates a hell of a lot better.
> D.The M1 Garand is relatively innacurate compared to an M1A. It is also more complicated, and magazines are relatively rare. It is also a mess of moving parts, which all have to be cleaned when you clean the rifle. Replacement parts won't be easy to come by either.
> ...


A. Don't ask to borrow any of my 7.62x54R - not gonna happen. I might have a ham can or twelve(!) of Russian mil-surp 54R for sale or barter, though.
B. Yeah, the US Army has been known to make mistakes. .50Beowulf was one. The CAR-9 was another. The Beretta was a real mistake. 9mm is the pits for lack of energy compared to a .45ACP.
C. Sorry, I'm Old School about this. .7mm-06 for the win. Reasonable recoil from the round, high velocity, keep hunting targets to realistic distances. If I have to go long and flat, that would be .25-06. Good velocity, can make the cases from stuff I have on hand. Just happen to have a Remington 700 in said chambering for use where there isn't a lot of trees or brush for hunting.
D. Don't badmouth my Garand. I have won a Match Rifle event with it against M1A's, Armalite AR-10's, etc. It was brand-effing-new when I received it, covered in enough cosmoline for twenty rifles. Proof fired only, never issued. Got plenty of brand-new clips (yes, it's called a clip) and it's not likely to wear our in my grandson's lifetime. It's not quite a pound heavier than an M1A, until you put a magazine in the M1A. Now we're even weight. Ain't no more fiddly than any other battle rifle as far as I'm concerned. It just looks that way because you're not used to field stripping one.
E. .30 caliber, either .308 or .30-06 and their derivatives will be around long after you've left this mortal coil. Two of the most popular sporting/hunting rounds. Can't say that about 6.5 anything.
F. Wanna put that 6.5 up against a .300 Win Mag with a 165gr Spirepoint Boattail? For safety purposes, I'm not quoting the powder and weight, but I have more kinetic energy at 600 yards than that 6.5's got. And that's out of a Thompson Contender pistol. 14" barrel. 3,150 ft/sec, something like 3,400 ft/lbs of energy. That's faster/more punch than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Keep in mind, the 6.5 Creedmoor is a benchrest round. That lighter bullet loses energy quicker than a heavier round.

Come on out some Saturday. We'll go to the range and bust a few caps with my TC. Just gotta promise not to drop it when it goes off and scream "My wrist is broken!" Remember, the only one shooting at 600 meters is the sniper in the squad. Everyone else is probably carrying an M4 in 5.56Nato. Realistically, 5.56Nato and 5.45X39 Russian rounds are really only good out to 100 meters. after that, the accuracy begins to drop off. I should know, being a former soldier, an LEO and avid hunter of both game and targets.


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 16, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Have yall heard about 6.5 creedmore gaining traction?


Just a few years ago, the same was said about the .50 Beowulf. Where is it now? SOCOM abandoned that bad idea pretty quickly.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 16, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Just a few years ago, the same was said about the .50 Beowulf. Where is it now? SOCOM abandoned that bad idea pretty quickly.


Well I bet many didn't think the 30-06 would be replaced back awhile ago. Only time will tell if it is a better round or not.


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 16, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Well I bet many didn't think the 30-06 would be replaced back awhile ago. Only time will tell if it is a better round or not.


Naw, it was only a matter of time for the .30-06 round. Too many of our troops in WW1 had trouble with the -03 Springfield beating the cr@p out of them. The M1 Garand was an attempt to increase firing rate and decrease recoil. It was good on both parts but it was said the "Ping!" when the last round was fired and the enbloc clip was kicked out of the rifle was letting the antagonists know you were not stoked. No Bueno. The switch to the .308/7.62 Nato was a logical step, considering the weight difference of .30-06 and .308, when an infantry trooper was carrying 200 to 300 rounds with him, some of that already loaded into magazines for his M1A. Also, the .308 has a much lighter recoil in the M1A.

The AR rifle and the 5.56 Nato round was an idea I'm still not real good with, even after carrying a USAF GAU slickside with no forward bolt assist. We even had ball ammunition issued to us long after it was deemed a problem. The GAU Slicks were great with extruded powder ammunition, run all day if you want. Not with that crappy Winchester-mfg'd stuff in the white boxes we were issued as late as 1980. Most were marked 1968 or 1969 for date of manufacture.

So yeah, we shall see if the Creedmoor gets dropped just as quickly by SOCOM as their other favorite children were.

As an aside, Bass Pro Shop has Federal American Eagle .223/55gr Boattail FMJ for $7.99USD per 20 rds. Not a bad price for non-mil surp.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 16, 2018)

A. I don't put that shit through my rifle if I can help it anyway. Winchester has the best consistency as far as bullet trajectory goes, and is less cruel to the barrel.
B. Yes, but the 9mm compared to the .45 in actual effect on target isn't that far off. In terms of actual statistics for rounds to stop a target, they aren't that far apart. Personally, .40 is where it is at.
D. The Garand is no slouch, but it's still out-performed in terms of modern tech. As a platform, it just simply isn't as accurate as modern weapons. The feeding mechanism in the Garand is an engineering failure, and parts can become bent, resulting in early ejection of the clip. Not something I want to happen in a SHTF situation. It also isn't the first thing I'd hand to a random ally, because someone is going to fuck their thumb up if they aren't familiar with it. When the Garand first hit the fields, it was probably THE best infantry rifle available. Not so anymore. Anecdotal evidence means little when comparing technical specifications. Marksmanship matters more when competing, but technical function matters more when trying to get the most performance from yourself. Still, shit marksmanship ruins any rifle.
F. I need to be able to kill food and people if my, or someone else's, life has been put at risk. Not fucking grizzly bears. 6.5 flies straighter, and delivers only slightly less punch than the excessive loads of .300 win mag. Both rounds can kill someone, and 6.5 has a better chance of penetrating body armor and hard surfaces due to having a lower surface area. When you are counting rounds, hitting the target is more important than overkill. I'm also pretty damn sure you are overstating those velocities/energies, unless you've loaded the round WAY too hot.

I've shot a Desert Eagle and been fine, and while I'm knowledgeable on stats I am still inexperienced. My job is also literally hell, and I work every damn weekend, as much as an excuse to shoot a TC interests me.

You can't realistically hear the ping in an actual warzone, and the speed with which a functioning Garand can be reloaded is too fast for someone to properly capitalize if they do somehow hear it over everything else going on.


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## DarkoKavinsky (May 16, 2018)

Honestly in a shtf scenario I’m fine with my 45LC. Adaptibility powders with the ability to hunt, and it’s light weight. Yeah not a high rate of fire but for its power it’s not loud.


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I'm also pretty damn sure you are overstating those velocities/energies, unless you've loaded the round WAY too hot


Nope, not overstated, so sayeth the Oehler SkyScreen. I've been reloading for over 40 years, I know how to work up a round and I do know what overpressure looks like. The .300 Win Mag casings fall out when I open the TC's action so there is some tiny tenth or two tenths of a grain left in them. I don't state the powder or load because that particular load would most likely destroy a rifle and probably main the shooter, even though it's only 61,000 cup as tested for me by a reputable lab in SoCal. Somebody actually broke a few small bones in their shooting hand with that TC.



Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> A. I don't put that shit (mil-surp 7.62X54R) through my rifle if I can help it anyway. Winchester has the best consistency as far as bullet trajectory goes, and is less cruel to the barrel


That's why it's still in the ham cans in the bottom of my #2 ammo safe. I don't like the stuff either but you know what, if SHTF happens, we won't worry who made that ammo, we'll shoot it regardless. I have a tonne-load of 54R that I made up out of Norma brass and some Prvi Partizan 182 FMJ Boattail ammo that I bought on sale.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 16, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Now I'm a little skeptical of that. Maybe it was true in _some _cases, but are the bad guys really going to hear that ping over the din of battle? And if they do, is it really going to matter when the guy who just ran empty has an entire squad or platoon backing him up?


People have actually tested this, and no. You can't really hear it under such conditions. It's easier to hear the clip hitting concrete ground during a brief moment of silence.


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## Astus (May 16, 2018)

After reading through all of this... I really need to go out and get my firearms ID >.> I've got an old Mossberg from my grandfather and my dad has a Smith and Wesson .357 and a .38 cheif special that I'd love to take to the range


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 16, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> People have actually tested this, and no. You can't really hear it under such conditions. It's easier to hear the clip hitting concrete ground during a brief moment of silence.


Actually, my Garand makes a rather loud "Ping!" when that enbloc clip leaves the action. I suspect the sound is that of the clip and the last round hitting one another on the way out of the action. It seems louder than a M1A magazine hitting the pavement. Yeah, we tested it at the range one day, during the week when it was quiet. I think it's probably a moot point in a hot battle but a sniper, trying to be quiet, would have rather had the sniper variant of the -03 Springfield instead. Nice and quiet.

The other thing is, there's really no way to catch that clip as it exits the action, unless you want a palm-full of hot brass, too. Tried using a glove but that the trigger hand. Oh well . . .


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 16, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Actually, my Garand makes a rather loud "Ping!" when that enbloc clip leaves the action. I suspect the sound is that of the clip and the last round hitting one another on the way out of the action. It seems louder than a M1A magazine hitting the pavement. Yeah, we tested it at the range one day, during the week when it was quiet. I think it's probably a moot point in a hot battle but a sniper, trying to be quiet, would have rather had the sniper variant of the -03 Springfield instead. Nice and quiet.
> 
> The other thing is, there's really no way to catch that clip as it exits the action, unless you want a palm-full of hot brass, too. Tried using a glove but that the trigger hand. Oh well . . .


Ya, I wouldn't pick most WWII rifles for sniping on the flash hider thing alone. The clip was supposed to be cheap enough that losses didn't matter, but I don't have a supply chain behind me like the US military did.


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2018)

Can't have a gun thread without some occasional gun videos. OwO

Now I want to hit the States and try shooting some of these bad boys..


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## Ramjet (May 17, 2018)

Astusthefox said:


> After reading through all of this... I really need to go out and get my firearms ID >.> I've got an old Mossberg from my grandfather and my dad has a Smith and Wesson .357 and a .38 cheif special that I'd love to take to the range


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## Ramjet (May 17, 2018)

I think moving to the M14 was more for an increase in magazine size...

8 rounds in battle don't last very long...


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2018)

I've been looking into gun laws over here in Norway, and unfortunately, the category I like the most(assault rifles) are banned. 

Bolt-action, semi-automatic and smaller caliber weapons however are allowed, though you kind of need a reason for it: Hunting and/or sports shooting.


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## Jarren (May 17, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> I've been looking into gun laws over here in Norway, and unfortunately, the category I like the most(assault rifles) are banned.
> 
> Bolt-action, semi-automatic and smaller caliber weapons however are allowed, though you kind of need a reason for it: Hunting and/or sports shooting.


Well, a lot of assault rifles have semi-automatic counterparts. True assault rifles are even restricted in the US (No full auto without a LOT of paperwork and hoops to jump through). You could probably get something close to what you're looking for if they allow semi autos.


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## Rochat (May 17, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Well, a lot of assault rifles have semi-automatic counterparts. True assault rifles are even restricted in the US (No full auto without a LOT of paperwork and hoops to jump through). You could probably get something close to what you're looking for if they allow semi autos.



You can get full auto here without paperwork. Just need a drill and some ebay trigger groups. :V


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 17, 2018)

Rochat said:


> You can get full auto here without paperwork. Just need a drill and some ebay trigger groups. :V


Sssssssssssh, that's an illegal.


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Well, a lot of assault rifles have semi-automatic counterparts. True assault rifles are even restricted in the US (No full auto without a LOT of paperwork and hoops to jump through). You could probably get something close to what you're looking for if they allow semi autos.


Indeed. I won't guarantee that I'll ever pick up a gun though.

But shooting with Ramjet's TAVOR, an SG 550 or an ARAK? OwO

Damn those guns look sexy!


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## Ramjet (May 17, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Well, a lot of assault rifles have semi-automatic counterparts. True assault rifles are even restricted in the US (No full auto without a LOT of paperwork and hoops to jump through). You could probably get something close to what you're looking for if they allow semi autos.




Not to mention crazy expensive as no new manufactured full auto can be acquired...Anything newer then 1986 is a no no,anything prior needs a class 3 and a $200 dollar tax stamp I believe...

With supply getting increasing lower by the year,expect to pay 15k plus for just a full auto M16 lower


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2018)

The ARAK looks like a beauty. 10/10 would try shooting with.

10 shots at a standard body armor.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 17, 2018)

Yakamaru said:


> The ARAK looks like a beauty. 10/10 would try shooting with.
> 
> 10 shots at a standard body armor.


Still a sucker for bigger bullets/longer rifles.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 17, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Save up your dough, get/renew your passport, and plan a trip to Kentucky for a truly American experience. Here are some Slovenians having themselves a time in 'Murica.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If it ain't innawoods, it ain't american.


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## Kellan Meig'h (May 18, 2018)

Ya know, getting a Class III ain't that hard. As long as you have never had a run in with the law as an adult. Ever. Or had your taxes audited. Or mebbe had your drivers license revoked. Or didn't make rank in the military. Just remembering what was said when I applied for my Class III.

Just as a lark, really, I applied for a Class III tax stamp once upon a time. I though I had a snowball's chance in Hades of getting one but lo and behold, one came in the mail one day, about a year after I applied. Now, why don't I have a Class III weapon in hand if I have a tax stamp? Well, first, I haven't found one that I really liked. Everything I've looked at was either way more than I wanted to spend or it was beat to $h!t. Second, Sheriff Plummer retired and his new replacement said he wouldn't sign for my purchase. Third, now the BATF and the FBI know more about me than I do. That part I'm not cool with. I thought, my Cali address would kill that Class III application right off the bat. I was an LEO at the time so mebbe that was why I was approved. No biggie, though. Where I'm moving this fall, they're pretty lenient with their gun laws. The last time I was there, I talked with the County Sheriff. He's cool with me having a Class III at my home as long as I follow the rules. Still have that tax stamp to use . . .

Thompson or BAR? Hmm?


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 18, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Ya know, getting a Class III ain't that hard. As long as you have never had a run in with the law as an adult. Ever. Or had your taxes audited. Or mebbe had your drivers license revoked. Or didn't make rank in the military. Just remembering what was said when I applied for my Class III.
> 
> Just as a lark, really, I applied for a Class III tax stamp once upon a time. I though I had a snowball's chance in Hades of getting one but lo and behold, one came in the mail one day, about a year after I applied. Now, why don't I have a Class III weapon in hand if I have a tax stamp? Well, first, I haven't found one that I really liked. Everything I've looked at was either way more than I wanted to spend or it was beat to $h!t. Second, Sheriff Plummer retired and his new replacement said he wouldn't sign for my purchase. Third, now the BATF and the FBI know more about me than I do. That part I'm not cool with. I thought, my Cali address would kill that Class III application right off the bat. I was an LEO at the time so mebbe that was why I was approved. No biggie, though. Where I'm moving this fall, they're pretty lenient with their gun laws. The last time I was there, I talked with the County Sheriff. He's cool with me having a Class III at my home as long as I follow the rules. Still have that tax stamp to use . . .
> 
> Thompson or BAR? Hmm?


Bren gun.


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## Yakamaru (May 18, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Save up your dough, get/renew your passport, and plan a trip to Kentucky for a truly American experience. Here are some Slovenians having themselves a time in 'Murica.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks pretty damn fun.

I don't really drink anything with a heavy alcoholic aftertaste tho, so will have to pass on the bourbon I am afraid.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 19, 2018)

Okay, if Gunny Ermey said the Bren is a keeper, I'll agree.




Still not a cheap rifle. I'll have to put that on my list.

Here's a bit of info about M1 Garands. He ejects a clip that you can clearly hear. 



M1 Thumb warnings galore.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 19, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Okay, if Gunny Ermey said the Bren is a keeper, I'll agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Kurgarra Lilitu (May 19, 2018)

I don't have any guns but I hope to eventually. I'm mostly interested in antique and early pistols when it comes to guns. Primarily pepper boxes, flintlocks, and derringers.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 19, 2018)

@Misha Bordiga Zahradník - what a pair of bozos! Not credible, particularly with the bumbling marksmanship going on. I was so waiting for him to get M1 Thumb.

Let them go back to playing Call To Duty. Really.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (May 19, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> @Misha Bordiga Zahradník - what a pair of bozos! Not credible, particularly with the bumbling marksmanship going on. I was so waiting for him to get M1 Thumb.
> 
> Let them go back to playing Call To Duty. Really.


So literally not being able to here the ping in what is arguable better than battlefield conditions isn't credible?
http://armamentresearch.com/myths-misconceptions-the-m1-ping/








warisboring.com: The M-1 ‘Ping’ – Myth or Fact?


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 19, 2018)

Now you're just getting annoying.

@Misha Bordiga Zahradník - I believe I already stated the point an enbloc clip might not be heard in battle (once your hearing was shot) but a sniper had to deal with that issue while trying to stay quiet and stealthy. A sniper would probably prefer an -03 Springfield long range rifle instead.

Now drop it and move on.


----------



## Telnac (May 21, 2018)

Kurgarra Lilitu said:


> I don't have any guns but I hope to eventually. I'm mostly interested in antique and early pistols when it comes to guns. Primarily pepper boxes, flintlocks, and derringers.


Nice! You should look into getting a curio & relic license. You can only use it to buy authentic guns more than 50 years old (not replicas) but you don't have to put up with a lot of the more cumbersome laws when buying these weapons, such as prohibitions against buying guns across state lines and the like.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (May 22, 2018)

Kurgarra Lilitu said:


> I don't have any guns but I hope to eventually. I'm mostly interested in antique and early pistols when it comes to guns. Primarily pepper boxes, flintlocks, and derringers.


While pricey those guns should be able to be shipped to your door. Since you don't live in New Jersey.

Anything pre 1898 is not considered a firearm. And mainly why i really want a mosin of that vintage as it'd be amazing!

Also getting into black powder guns you can get kits and make them yourself. Which is really fun actually. Percussion cap guns can be bought for very cheap and are really fun plinkers.


----------



## mcm730 (May 27, 2018)

I have a carry license. Revolvers make me happy.


----------



## Jarren (Aug 11, 2018)

GOOOOOOOOOOOOD Morning, FAF! I've got some new stuff to post and it seems that people are taking an interest in firearms again (given the gun control thread). 
So, with that said, welcome back to the firearms thread!





Got myself a new pistol. Gonna be my new practice  and eventually carry gun. It's a bit heavy, given the steel frame, but I actually like that. 
CZ75 Compact, chambered in 9mm. I really like how this one shoots.






Found this at a local shop and, honestly, I kinda wanted to buy it....
Couldn't at the time though. Kicking myself now XD Would have been a great excuse to build a binary setup.

So, what've you guys been up to, and what do you have to show off/chat about?


----------



## Jarren (Aug 11, 2018)

Oh, also, @Shane McNair your wish is granted.


----------



## Tao (Aug 11, 2018)

I now own a couple revolvers for when I’m deep in the woods. I’ve got my .22 heritage rough rider and my beauty is a Colt Walker .44 black powder revolver. It’s bulky and slow to load but I love it.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 11, 2018)

Still waiting on my pre-ordered Tikka T1X in .17hmr

Word on the street is they produced 300 for worldwide production before taking their month long summer break...Fuckers!!
Was supposed to land in June.

Nice CZ75C @Jarren!!!
Love me them Czech guns


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 11, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> You're still waiting for that? Wow.



Yes

I'm in good company though, as no one has one as of yet...


----------



## Jarren (Aug 11, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> How's the trigger on it?


It's DA/SA. 10 and 6 pounds respectively. Very smooth though


----------



## Naheta Doe (Aug 11, 2018)

I think living in Wyoming its required. Lol I have 4 rifles and my "hooker" pistol. Lol its a little 2 shot mag .22 that fits in a eye glass case. 

I'm working on my conciled carry. Bit Wyoming is an open carry state.


----------



## Naheta Doe (Aug 11, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Oh look, another Wyo fur. Welcome!




Lol thank you I have met a few over the years but we are few and far between


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 11, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Took one of my ARs out today and checked the zero of the scope after remounting it. Very nice piece of glass, and a very nice mount - a Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 sitting in a LaRue LT-104 QD mount. Very solid, quality setup, and the mount still held zero as advertised. The scope is 1.5 - 4x, and I really like the fact that it can be dialed down to where it'll function almost like a red dot, so it's a pretty good choice for a home defense carbine setup as well.
> 
> View attachment 37235
> 
> View attachment 37234




Nice Stag

Love that scope setup actually...hmmmm

Love my Vortex strikefire setup, but might have to look at something like this with QD for quick switch over on the Tavor.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Took one of my ARs out today and checked the zero of the scope after remounting it. Very nice piece of glass, and a very nice mount - a Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 sitting in a LaRue LT-104 QD mount. Very solid, quality setup, and the mount still held zero as advertised. The scope is 1.5 - 4x, and I really like the fact that it can be dialed down to where it'll function almost like a red dot, so it's a pretty good choice for a home defense carbine setup as well.
> 
> View attachment 37235
> 
> View attachment 37234


Trust me, you won't need that scope if it's a home break-in situation. My preference would be an under slung Mini-Mag with a Nite-Eyz push button on-off switch and led conversion, if it didn't start off as an led to begin with.

I'm kinda old school when it comes to AR platform rifles. The last two AR builds, albeit they were .22lr only, were Nodak Spud no fence Slabsides and no forward bolt assist uppers. They were to mimic the piece I carried in the Air Force for 2-1/2 years at Nellis AFB. CMMG supplied the bolt carrier group and barrels, 20" 16:1 twist. I found 2 sets of furniture for them, Mattel manufactured. We built them just so we could go to the range and practice with the same platform we would have during a (heaven forbid) SHTF situation. Iron sights only, since a SHTF situation might preclude batteries being readily accessible. If you do your part right, both rifles will do 10 rings all day long at 100 yards. That's with Lapua Center X ammunition.

It's kind of fun, showing up at a range with what looks like a Cali prohibited weapon, only to have the local Police be embarrassed when the range master calls them and they show up only to find the weapons in question are .22lr.

I will make a comment; practice with the iron sights. You never know when the batteries might take a dump on you or when replacement batteries might be unavailable.

On the other hand, I use a .44 Mag revolver, At the moment I have a Ruger Redhawk with a custom 4" barrel along with a six D cell LED conversion Mag-lite for home protection. The wife unit backs me up a Mossberg 500 12 gauge/18" cylinder bore barrel that has a side mounted Mini-mag on it. Her load is 1-1/2 oz #2 Federal Upland game load and I use Glaser Safety Slugs - 135Gr Blue tip in the Ruger.

And, if you think you might at one point actually do self defense in a home, like during a break-in, do yourself a favor. Go to a range and bust a few caps without hearing protection. Be aware of how loud the sound is. That intense sound can throw you off, leaving yourself vulnerable. That's how I have six lovely little .25 ACP scars in my hide. I was stunned by setting off that .44 Mag in a tight upper hallway, right next to a wall. It was a double tap, just like I had trained for years as a badge wearing LEO. If they will allow it at your range, shut off the lights and use a flashlight to illuminate the target. Don't be surprised when the muzzle flash temporarily blinds you. Seemingly little things like these can be the difference in a trip to the hospital (or worse) and surviving a break-in by an armed intruder.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 12, 2018)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Trust me, you won't need that scope if it's a home break-in situation. My preference would be an under slung Mini-Mag with a Nite-Eyz push button on-off switch and led conversion, if it didn't start off as an led to begin with.
> 
> I'm kinda old school when it comes to AR platform rifles. The last two AR builds, albeit they were .22lr only, were Nodak Spud no fence Slabsides and no forward bolt assist uppers. They were to mimic the piece I carried in the Air Force for 2-1/2 years at Nellis AFB. CMMG supplied the bolt carrier group and barrels, 20" 16:1 twist. I found 2 sets of furniture for them, Mattel manufactured. We built them just so we could go to the range and practice with the same platform we would have during a (heaven forbid) SHTF situation. Iron sights only, since a SHTF situation might preclude batteries being readily accessible. If you do your part right, both rifles will do 10 rings all day long at 100 yards. That's with Lapua Center X ammunition.
> 
> ...




Agree 100%, you should always have reliable old school irons for backup...

Lucky for me the setup I have with the Tavor allows the factory fold down irons hidden in the rails to co-witness with the Strike Fire red dot.Don't even have to take it off.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 10, 2018)

I have my CCW....and no money to buy my own handgun. I carry my Ka-Bar for personal protection and utility. I could legall carry my rifle everywhere, but I don't want to be one of those assholes. Definitely a priority to get a good M&P full size atm, but that's after student debt, rent, food, lube, etc.


----------



## AppleButt (Dec 10, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> So, any of you doing any shooting this winter, or new acquisitions?



Only if some idiot decides to break into my house!


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

AppleButt said:


> Only if some idiot decides to break into my house!


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 10, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


>



I hate people who are like this IRL. It's one thing to be prepared for a home invasion, it's another to be gleefully looking for an opportunity to shoot someone. 

Like some people don't seem to realize having to kill someone for your own safety is heavy shit, not to mention the people who don't actually understand the use of force laws.

It's the sand in my action of the gun community.


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I hate people who are like this IRL. It's one thing to be prepared for a home invasion, it's another to be gleefully looking for an opportunity to shoot someone.
> 
> Like some people don't seem to realize having to kill someone for your own safety is heavy shit, not to mention the people who don't actually understand the use of force laws.
> 
> It's the sand in my action of the gun community.



Someone doesn't understand satire


----------



## Izzy4895 (Dec 10, 2018)

I am gradually processing a batch of .30-06 brass (perhaps around 200-300 cases) for reloading. Thankfully, the trimming is now out of the way (I just need to chamfer and deburr the case mouths and clean out the primer pockets before reloading begins). It takes a good deal of time to process and reload this stuff, but it doesn’t take long for my Garand to turn it into empty brass again.


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Izzy4895 said:


> I am gradually processing a batch of .30-06 brass (perhaps around 200-300 cases) for reloading. Thankfully, the trimming is now out of the way (I just need to chamfer and deburr the case mouths and clean out the primer pockets before reloading begins).




Very nice!
I really need to get a reloading press.

How many reloads are you getting off 06 brass before you start to see splitting?


----------



## Izzy4895 (Dec 10, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Very nice!
> I really need to get a reloading press.
> 
> How many reloads are you getting off 06 brass before you start to see splitting?



Some of this brass is on its third time being reloaded, and I haven’t seen any splits yet. I will be keeping an eye in it, though, as I have been told it isn’t uncommon to get four reloads at most when it comes to cases fed through an M1.


----------



## ТВИУО4570 (Dec 10, 2018)

I don’t have the arsenal that I would like to have yet, but I share a lot of guns with my father.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 10, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Someone doesn't understand satire


I get satire, I'm bitching about the people the video is poking fun at.


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Hmmm.. it's a shame that poor yote couldn't return fire onto the rednecks that were shooting at him..




Not gonna lie, that would make shit interesting


----------



## ТВИУО4570 (Dec 10, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Not gonna lie that would make shit interesting


Hunting season would literally make miniature war zones appear all over the place.


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> www.furaffinity.net: Heading Out (Commission) by DesertYote



Pfffft AK47...I got nothing to worry about then...

No match for a Tavor-21


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


>








I mean.....I could hide behind a barn door in the hope that an assailant with an AK could at least hit my cover

(Jk, I'm just jealous because I can't own one)


----------



## ТВИУО4570 (Dec 10, 2018)

Shots fired!!


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 10, 2018)

I'm posting pics of my Mosin when I get home from he...I mean work.


----------



## Jarren (Dec 10, 2018)

Oh, wow, this is alive again! 

I'll have more pics tomorrow for people. My collection has grown notably since my last update here ^.=.^


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I'm posting pics of my Mosin when I get home from he...I mean work.




Nice!

Nothing wrong with some good old surplus Russian weapons...

Love my 1952 Tula SKS..


----------



## ТВИУО4570 (Dec 10, 2018)

The oldest gun I have is a Browning .22 auto loading rifle made in the ‘20s


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


>



Fake news!!
That AK is a paid actor

(That's actually fucking awesome shooting)


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

ТВИУО4570 said:


> The oldest gun I have is a Browning .22 auto loading rifle made in the ‘20s



OwO

Load the shells via a hole in the stock?
Browning SA-22?


----------



## ТВИУО4570 (Dec 10, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> OwO
> 
> Load the shells via a hole in the stock?


Indeed, casings also eject downwards. It’s a pretty neat little gun!


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

ТВИУО4570 said:


> Indeed, casings also eject downwards. It’s a pretty neat little gun!




They are!
Still made to this day actually


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 10, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Are you alleging that AK is a paid Russian troll trying to sway the argument in favor of Russian-designed small arms?


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 10, 2018)

Not Pictured: Vest lacking plates, old stock and sling. 


 


 
Old and new Clips. Old clips are a pain in the ass to feed, scratch up the brass, and don't feed consistently. New clips hold rounds loosely, but tightly enough to work. New clips feed fine, but don't spring out like the old clips after the last round is fed. 


 
Rifle has very possibly seen shit.


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 12, 2018)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I have my CCW....and no money to buy my own handgun. I carry my Ka-Bar for personal protection and utility. I could legall carry my rifle everywhere, but I don't want to be one of those assholes. Definitely a priority to get a good M&P full size atm, but that's after student debt, rent, food, lube, etc.




You'll love the M&P btw...
Got a full size 9mm 2.0 (and have had the old one).
The 2.0 has a more aggressive grip texture then the original M&P, and cuts the ugly beaver tail off the rear...

I'd hold both irl to see which one you like better imo...Some people don't like the grip on the new one, and find it too aggressive for their hands..

New one





Old one





Side by side.


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 12, 2018)

For you precision rifle lovers out there, here's a couple good pic of my beast .308


----------



## AppleButt (Dec 12, 2018)

This thread makes me want to learn more about guns haha.   I don’t have any fancy guns lol.  I’ve never really had an interest in them other than for self defense.

I just have a 9mm Smith and Wesson.

Well it’s my moms but she lets me use it.  It’s nice and shoots fine, so it works well for a non gun enthusiast like me 

My Dad has a 30.06, a 10 gauge shotgun,  and a .22.  I don’t know what brands they are lol.  He’s had them for a long time, though. 

That’s it for me haha. 

My uncle has a lot of them though, but I don’t know what he has other than an AR-15 he let me shoot once.


----------



## Jarren (Dec 12, 2018)

Well, the hoard has grown since last I showed it off.... Ladies and gentlemen, behold!


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 12, 2018)

Jarren said:


> Well, the hoard has grown since last I showed it off.... Ladies and gentlemen, behold!




Nice new acquisitions!!
As always that Keltec RDB is smexy
Gonna have to take a look at one, as long as the Tavy doesn't get to jealous

Oh and Tis the season fella's..


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 12, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> This was found somewhere in Africa. It still worked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Worked and accurate are different words, but damn. 





This gun was made in protest of British Firearms legislation, out of hardware parts, by a man named P.A. Luty. It was made with minimal tools, and is the best example of a "Pipe Gun".


----------



## Ramjet (Dec 12, 2018)

Yup, just goes to show that banning then will not stop someone determined enough to get their hands on one...Hell there's enough in circulation now to supply the next 3 generations of black market supply...

Not to mention someone with enough skill can make an AK receiver out of a shovel, or even a full 1911 from scratch...





www.northeastshooters.com: DIY: Shovel AK - photo tsunami warning!


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Dec 12, 2018)

Ramjet556 said:


> Nice new acquisitions!!
> As always that Keltec RDB is *smexy*


You called?

Joke aside, I don't have a gun, purely because even if I did, not much use of it in the UK. As in no shooting range / good spot to shoot for miles.
Other than for display, but even so the licence to get a gun AND to even store it is hell.
I might get one if I decide to move to America with my BF, but otherwise can't be a gun owner for now. :c

Nice to see those beautys anyway.


----------



## Turisgu (Jan 13, 2019)

I have crossbow hand made and normal bow well I'm living in middle ages eh but these equipment are soo useful for hunting birds and also Crow meat is so delicious why I'm using these things the ammo is so expensive and also the rifle too so I made my own weapons and also no one can stop me because middle age weapons are not expensive and also I don't need license for using these weapons and is not expensive and you don't need to buy a new ammo because you can take back the arrow from bird or other animals like squirrel well it was weird but do I use firearm yes I used but I nearly broke my arm but the weapons I made are doesn't have these problems


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jan 13, 2019)

Turisgu said:


> I have crossbow hand made and normal bow well I'm living in middle ages eh but these equipment are soo useful for hunting birds and also Crow meat is so delicious why I'm using these things the ammo is so expensive and also the rifle too so I made my own weapons and also no one can stop me because middle age weapons are not expensive and also I don't need license for using these weapons and is not expensive and you don't need to buy a new ammo because you can take back the arrow from bird or other animals like squirrel well it was weird but do I use firearm yes I used but I nearly broke my arm but the weapons I made are doesn't have these problems


You might want to double-check your laws, because even bows are regulated in some countries/provinces.


----------



## furryswag (Jan 13, 2019)

I have:
A custom Ar Pistol
MPA defender
S&W shield 
Ruger Mark IV
and... some other stuff

God Bless America XD


----------



## Turisgu (Jan 13, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> You might want to double-check your laws, because even bows are regulated in some countries/provinces.


there is no problem in my country's law system except the education judge military employment and broken secularism or religious propaganda to young children and killing the questioning and thinking and also other wrong politic actions and also economic diplomatic problems but luckily they won't care the weapons I told the last post


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Feb 14, 2019)

Nice to see some Mosins and Simonovs on here. I have an M44 Romanian Mosin and a Yugo m59/66 SKS myself. Also got a Mossberg 500 and a Ruger LC9.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 14, 2019)

LordChestnut said:


> Nice to see some Mosins and Simonovs on here. I have an M44 Romanian Mosin and a Yugo m59/66 SKS myself. Also got a Mossberg 500 and a Ruger LC9.


Snagged a 59/66 myself recently. I'll post some pics when I get home.


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Feb 14, 2019)

The only guns I have and need are the ones under my sleeves PogChamp


----------



## Jarren (Feb 14, 2019)

So, as promised, here are the 59/66 pics I mentioned, with some cool trench art/markings.


Spoiler: Large pics within


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Feb 14, 2019)

I don't know if the guys still around since i got mine about 12 years ago off some guy on the old surplusrifle.com forum but there's an upgraded stainless steel gas port cylinder for the yugos that makes it more reliable and easier to clean.


----------



## davydonovan (Feb 24, 2019)

Gentleman I'm proud to say I have accomplished a goal today. I'm now the proud owner of an AR-50.


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 18, 2019)

Gonna bump because I don't want to make a thread of my own.

Here's an old family photo.  I haven't been able to get everything together for a new one in some time due to lending them out and living away from where they're stored.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 18, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> Gonna bump because I don't want to make a thread of my own.
> 
> Here's an old family photo.  I haven't been able to get everything together for a new one in some time due to lending them out and living away from where they're stored.
> View attachment 59889


Mosin Comrade!


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 18, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Mosin Comrade!


Got that bastard for $150 even after the inflation where they were hitting $400+.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 18, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> Got that bastard for $150 even after the inflation where they were hitting $400+.


~250$
Got a modern archangel stock. Need to comission a new classic style wood one.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 18, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> ~250$
> Got a modern archangel stock. Need to comission a new classic style wood one.


Reposting pics.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 18, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> Gonna bump because I don't want to make a thread of my own.
> 
> Here's an old family photo.  I haven't been able to get everything together for a new one in some time due to lending them out and living away from where they're stored.
> View attachment 59889




Nice collection!

Love that AUG on the far left


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Apr 18, 2019)

I Think my Romanian M44 was $65 back in 04.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 18, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> Gonna bump because I don't want to make a thread of my own.
> 
> Here's an old family photo.  I haven't been able to get everything together for a new one in some time due to lending them out and living away from where they're stored.
> View attachment 59889


Never thought I'd see an Aug/Msar next to a Hi point XD
Nice collection, though!


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 19, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Reposting pics.


Holy shit.  I always forget that the action is what makes the gun.  Was shooting my M1A at the range next to some dude with one in an EBR chassis and I had no idea it was the same gun until he told me.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 19, 2019)

Shane McNair said:


> Ah, it's the gun thread that refuses to die again! Just when you thought it was done, someone brings it back.


It liiiiiiives!
I'll have a few updates for it tomorrow


----------



## Telnac (Apr 19, 2019)

No pics (in case the 9th Circus makes them illegal to possess) but I took advantage of Freedom Week here in Kalifornistan to rebuild 4 standard capacity mags (what the Nazis here call "high capacity") that I brought into this state as boxes of parts back when that was still legal. I also ordered standard capacity mags for my AK-47 and my AR-15.

They say more than a million standard capacity mags were rebuilt or ordered in that week alone, something the gun grabbers lament as undoing 20 years of gun control laws. They can lament all they like. All I care is that I'm finally properly armed.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 19, 2019)

That post both technically violates the CoC about breaking the law, and could be used against you in court my blue draconic friendo. Best delete it. Not faulting you, but giving advice.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 19, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> That post both technically violates the CoC about breaking the law, and could be used against you in court my blue draconic friendo. Best delete it. Not faulting you, but giving advice.


I’m not breaking the law. I've never broken the law with respect to guns and I'm not encouraging anyone else to do so.

On March 29th, 2019 the California ban on "high capacity" magazines was struck down. The CA district attorney filed for a stay of that ruling, which was granted a week after the original ruling (effective April 5th, 2019.) During that week it was legal to assemble or import "high capacity" magazines. After the ruling was stayed the judge ruled that magazines that were manufactured or imported during that week wee legal to keep and use.

Nothing I did during that week  violates the law and thus I'm not in violation of the CoC. Keeping those magazines is legal (for now.) I'm not posting pics because the 9th Circuit Court of appeals may set aside that original ruling at any time, which could ex post facto make the magazines illegal (which is itself a violation of the Constitution, but that's not stopped the 9th Circus before...) If that happens, I'll read over the exact text of the ruling and make sure that I remain in compliance with the law (however unconstitutional it may be.)


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 19, 2019)

Telnac said:


> I’m not breaking the law. I've never broken the law with respect to guns and I'm not encouraging anyone else to do so.
> 
> On March 29th, 2018 the California ban on "high capacity" magazines was struck down. The CA district attorney filed for a stay of that ruling, which was granted a week after the original ruling (effective April 5th, 2019.) During that week it was legal to assemble or import "high capacity" magazines. After the ruling was stayed the judge ruled that magazines that were manufactured or imported during that week wee legal to keep and use.
> 
> Nothing I did during that week  violates the law and thus I'm not in violation of the ToS. Keeping those magazines is legal (for now.) I'm not posting pics because the 9th Circuit Court of appeals may set aside that original ruling at any time, which could ex post facto make the magazines illegal (which is itself a violation of the Constitution, but that's not stopped the 9th Circus before...) If that happens, I'll read over the exact text of the ruling and make sure that I remain in compliance with the law (however unconstitutional it may be.)


This post could be held against you if they do.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 19, 2019)

_A distant cackling can be heard from the free state of New Hampshire

...followed by gunfire, the sound of exploding tannerite, and shocked redneck noises..._


----------



## Telnac (Apr 19, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> This post could be held against you if they do.


It's a post describing the law and describing how I'm in compliance with the law. You can't made a formerly legal activity illegal and then go after someone for doing something that was legal at the time. If that were the case we'd always be in legal jeopardy because something you do & post about today may be banned tomorrow.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 19, 2019)

I'll leave it be fir now because vI'm wasyed.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 19, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I'll leave it be fir now because vI'm wasyed.


Watch out.  That post might be used against you in a court of law. 

Don't forget to drink plenty of water!


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 19, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Watch out.  That post might be used against you in a court of law.
> 
> Don't forget to drink plenty of water!


I don't mix guns and alchohol, I just mix drinks.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 19, 2019)

Jarren said:


> _A distant cackling can be heard from the free state of New Hampshire
> 
> ...followed by gunfire, the sound of exploding tannerite, and shocked redneck noises..._




Man that reminds me, I'm gonna have to make some effort to let off some of my binary this year


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 20, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> Man that reminds me, I'm gonna have to make some effort to let off some of my binary this year


Hey! That looks like a Stack-On gun safe! Ya know, in Kalifornastan the green ones aren't legal, only the black Stack-On cabinets. Yeah, that whole finish color thing for the Cali DOJ.

Nice stash of Binary, there.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 20, 2019)

I should prolly get some art with my sona with my shit at some point when I'm neither drunk nor broke.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 20, 2019)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Hey! That looks like a Stack-On gun safe! Ya know, in Kalifornastan the green ones aren't legal, only the black Stack-On cabinets. Yeah, that whole finish color thing for the Cali DOJ.
> 
> Nice stash of Binary, there.




Lmao

I have another 8 gun one as well as this one pictured...

8 guns my ass.....More like 5


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> Lmao
> 
> I have another 8 gun one as well as this one pictured...
> 
> 8 guns my ass.....More like 5


You people and your guns..

*not-so-secretly wants to visit and fire some of the guns you gits have*

The TAVOR looks undeniably fun to shoot with. M16 too.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 20, 2019)

I just realized we hit 50 pages! Yay! ;p

Anywho, I promised an update today and an update you shall get!

My quest for a K-31 has FINALLY come to an end as of today. I paid a bit more for it than I planned on when I set out on the hunt, but hey, when people are expecting $800+ for a shooter grade example, suddenly $695 shipped doesn't sound so bad...
Here she is between my two other recent acquisitions! A No.5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine and a Type 38 Arisaka.





More images of each behind the spoiler tags because I don't wanna crowd the page.


Spoiler: K-31 and pioneer bayonet

























Spoiler: Jungle Carbine

















Spoiler: Type 38


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 22, 2019)

I love my Tavor


----------



## MaetheDragon (Apr 22, 2019)

I’ve been hunting with my dad for a couple of years now, and have handled shotguns and muzzleloaders quite a bit (rifles are illegal to use for hunting in my state).

I use a 20 gauge Remington model 1187 shotgun regularly, and I use a Thompson Center muzzleloader, I can’t remember the exact model. My dad also purchased a Ruger LC9s handgun for me to purchase off him in the future, when I get a license to carry.

I’ll have to take some pictures of them later. I still live with my parents, and my mom doesn’t trust me with the key to the gun safe yet.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 23, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> I’ve been hunting with my dad for a couple of years now, and have handled shotguns and muzzleloaders quite a bit (rifles are illegal to use for hunting in my state).
> 
> I use a 20 gauge Remington model 1187 shotgun regularly, and I use a Thompson Center muzzleloader, I can’t remember the exact model. My dad also purchased a Ruger LC9s handgun for me to purchase off him in the future, when I get a license to carry.
> 
> I’ll have to take some pictures of them later. I still live with my parents, and my mom doesn’t trust me with the key to the gun safe yet.


Rifles are illegal for hunting in your state?! Yikes. I thought rifles were legal for hunting everywhere in the USA.


----------



## MaetheDragon (Apr 23, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Rifles are illegal for hunting in your state?! Yikes. I thought rifles were legal for hunting everywhere in the USA.



Yup, they’re mostly illegal here in Massachusetts for hunting. This state is pretty bad about their gun laws, so we can only use rifles for sport shooting and self defense, as long as you have the proper license. Rifles can be used still, but not in the zone in which I live.

Massachusetts is crowded, so their use is limited. I just checked to make sure.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 23, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> Yup, they’re mostly illegal here in Massachusetts for hunting. This state is pretty bad about their gun laws, so we can only use rifles for sport shooting and self defense, as long as you have the proper license. Rifles can be used still, but not in the zone in which I live.
> 
> Massachusetts is crowded, so their use is limited. I just checked to make sure.


As a NH resident, you have my condolences about those gun laws, but given how densely packed it is down there, it doesn't surprise me they did that :/


----------



## MaetheDragon (Apr 23, 2019)

Jarren said:


> As a NH resident, you have my condolences about those gun laws, but given how densely packed it is down there, it doesn't surprise me they did that :/



Yeah, I can’t say I’m surprised, either. Had I still lived in Iowa, I probably would have had more opportunities to rifle hunt. But, you gotta go where the jobs are, at the end of the day.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 23, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> Yeah, I can’t say I’m surprised, either. Had I still lived in Iowa, I probably would have had more opportunities to rifle hunt. But, you gotta go where the jobs are, at the end of the day.


Or make your own ;p
I almost moved down to Mass a few years back for a job, but someone else hired someone from the West coast to dofi the position before I could sign on officially so I got screwed out of that. That said, I couldn't live in Mass. So I kinda dodged a bullet there  (pun intended)


----------



## MaetheDragon (Apr 23, 2019)

Jarren said:


> Or make your own ;p
> I almost moved down to Mass a few years back for a job, but someone else hired someone from the West coast to dofi the position before I could sign on officially so I got screwed out of that. That said, I couldn't live in Mass. So I kinda dodged a bullet there  (pun intended)



Haha, true! You dodged one with that.

Even if I can’t use rifles often, at least they let me keep my friend Ruger around for when things get hairy.


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Apr 23, 2019)

The LC9s is surprisingly accurate for its size. I want to get tritiums on mine.


----------



## MaetheDragon (Apr 23, 2019)

Tritiums are nice... maybe I should consider getting some on mine, too. I only got the LC9s recently.

That means I get to have fun customizing it!


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 23, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> I love my Tavor


Met a Master Chief at my local open range who had an $1800 Tavor and $1800 worth of glass on it.  EOTech holo sight and magnifier.  Allowed me to shoot a full mag but I was polite and only shot 3 rounds.  Fantastic weapon.


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 23, 2019)

Telnac said:


> standard capacity mags (what the Nazis here call "high capacity")


Fucking Christ.  I thought I was the only one who thought like this.


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 23, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> Fucking Christ.  I thought I was the only one who thought like this.


MSM and ignorant, lying, corrupt politicians (and all the judges/lawyers who support them), LOVE slapping stupid names/labels/titles on shit, just to push their own agenda.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 23, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> Fucking Christ.  I thought I was the only one who thought like this.


Yeah you're hardly alone. When the magazines that the manufacturers design for the weapon are considered "high capacity" by the idiots who write the laws, you live in a fucked up state.

Sadly, I live in a fucked up state.

"High capacity" should mean just that - magazines that accept more rounds than your weapon was designed to hold. A 50 round drum magazine for a Glock is a high capacity magazine. I think can all agree on that. Granted, I still wouldn't support banning it but at least the definition is an accurate one. This push to define "high capacity" as anything greater than a small, arbitrary number is an insult to basic logic IMO.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 23, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Yeah you're hardly alone. When the magazines that the manufacturers design for the weapon are considered "high capacity" by the idiots who write the laws, you live in a fucked up state.
> 
> Sadly, I live in a fucked up state.
> 
> "High capacity" should mean just that - magazines that accept more rounds than your weapon was designed to hold. A 50 round drum magazine for a Glock is a high capacity magazine. I think can all agree on that. Granted, I still wouldn't support banning it but at least the definition is an accurate one. This push to define "high capacity" as anything greater than a small, arbitrary number is an insult to basic logic IMO.


Some redneck like me would just invent a drum magwell glock.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 23, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Yeah you're hardly alone. When the magazines that the manufacturers design for the weapon are considered "high capacity" by the idiots who write the laws, you live in a fucked up state.
> 
> Sadly, I live in a fucked up state.
> 
> "High capacity" should mean just that - magazines that accept more rounds than your weapon was designed to hold. A 50 round drum magazine for a Glock is a high capacity magazine. I think can all agree on that. Granted, I still wouldn't support banning it but at least the definition is an accurate one. This push to define "high capacity" as anything greater than a small, arbitrary number is an insult to basic logic IMO.




Just be glad you don't live up here...

10rd pistol and 5rd for semi-auto centerfire rifle, no limit for repeating actions (rifles) or semi rimfire rifle.

We have loopholes though for centerfire rifle...
If your weapon can accept a pistol mag, then you can use 10.
For example in the case of rifles that use AR mags, you can have 10 rounders as long as the mag has RRA LAR pistol magazine printed on it...






Sooooo fucking stupid....


----------



## Jarren (Apr 23, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> Just be glad you don't live up here...
> /snip/
> Sooooo fucking stupid....


Buy a .50 Beowulf mag. You can cram up to 20 in there I hear and they fit standard magwells. And they're "5 round" mags.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 23, 2019)

Jarren said:


> Buy a .50 Beowulf mag. You can cram up to 20 in there I hear and they fit standard magwells. And they're "5 round" mags.



They actually did crack down on those ones...

No store dares to sell them anymore.


----------



## modfox (Apr 23, 2019)

reason why us aussies say we hate guns is because like 90% of us are jealous about our nanny state gun laws, and we envy the americans. trust me i have been doing our research


----------



## Rochat (Apr 23, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> They actually did crack down on those ones...
> 
> No store dares to sell them anymore.



It's time to buy a 3D printer


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 23, 2019)

Rochat said:


> It's time to buy a 3D printer


Unless it prints in metal, you'd better not unless you want to blow your hand off.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 23, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Unless it prints in metal, you'd better not unless you want to blow your hand off.


Magazine malfunctions would likely result in gun jams, not your hand being blown off. Still, you'd need a REALLY expensive 3D printer to print anything durable enough to be usable.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 23, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Magazine malfunctions would likely result in gun jams, not your hand being blown off. Still, you'd need a REALLY expensive 3D printer to print anything durable enough to be usable.


I misread that as him talking 3D printing guns. My bad.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 23, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Magazine malfunctions would likely result in gun jams, not your hand being blown off. Still, you'd need a REALLY expensive 3D printer to print anything durable enough to be usable.




Defence distributed has the cuomo available for download...







I know next to nothing about 3d printers, or the plastics that would be needed to do it.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 24, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I misread that as him talking 3D printing guns. My bad.


Oh! Yeah, there's a plan for a 3D printable .22 pistol out there but I'm pretty sure there's not a 3D printable rifle for a .50 Beowulf round. If there is, be sure to have your last will and testament filled out before firing it!


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 24, 2019)

I am considering building an AR....

Probably going for Magpul fore/grip/stock. Not sure who I want for the guts though.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 24, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Oh! Yeah, there's a plan for a 3D printable .22 pistol out there but I'm pretty sure there's not a 3D printable rifle for a .50 Beowulf round. If there is, be sure to have your last will and testament filled out before firing it!








The realistic outcome.


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 24, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Yeah you're hardly alone. When the magazines that the manufacturers design for the weapon are considered "high capacity" by the idiots who write the laws, you live in a fucked up state.
> 
> Sadly, I live in a fucked up state.
> 
> "High capacity" should mean just that - magazines that accept more rounds than your weapon was designed to hold. A 50 round drum magazine for a Glock is a high capacity magazine. I think can all agree on that. Granted, I still wouldn't support banning it but at least the definition is an accurate one. This push to define "high capacity" as anything greater than a small, arbitrary number is an insult to basic logic IMO.


I consider it to be 'High Capacity', when it's just beyond my ability to AFFORD to shoot it.
Hence, I no longer own a fully automatic rifle.  Fun as hell, expensive as SHIT to enjoy.
And I now a poor Equine Fur, so...
:: Loads the rubber-band pistols, goes hunting the cat... ::

:-D


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 24, 2019)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> MSM and ignorant, lying, corrupt politicians (and all the judges/lawyers who support them), LOVE slapping stupid names/labels/titles on shit, just to push their own agenda.


True dat.  Gotta give a persuasive speech tomorrow for class and I chose anti-assault weapon ban in WI.  Instead of going full SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED on the class of mostly women for 7 minutes, I'm just gonna talk about already established laws (NY, CA, and expired Federal AWB laws on how only semi-auto + detachable mags [mechanical features] make sense instead of all the cosmetic bullshit tacked onto it), how assault weapons are not that bad compared to manual actions (smaller calibers, statistically less-fatal, higher level of knowledge required to operate/clear jams), and why a ban or confiscation will monetarily impact WI business and owners of these weapons (1/3 of residents own firearms, sport shooting is business, and people will be out $500-2,000 per weapon with little to no compensation).


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 24, 2019)

jffry890 said:


> True dat.  Gotta give a persuasive speech tomorrow for class and I chose anti-assault weapon ban in WI.  Instead of going full SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED on the class of mostly women for 7 minutes, I'm just gonna talk about already established laws (NY, CA, and expired Federal AWB laws on how only semi-auto + detachable mags [mechanical features] make sense instead of all the cosmetic bullshit tacked onto it), how assault weapons are not that bad compared to manual actions (smaller calibers, statistically less-fatal, higher level of knowledge required to operate/clear jams), and why a ban or confiscation will monetarily impact WI business and owners of these weapons (1/3 of residents own firearms, sport shooting is business, and people will be out $500-2,000 per weapon with little to no compensation).







Ignore that last bit of the image at the bottom, but the general problem with how assault weapon bans aren't physically effective and are just a political rallying cry for the Democrat voter base should come up. 

Also, can we ban phallus shaped grips and parts since they don't contribute any militaty benefit, and are cancer.


----------



## Angelcakes (Apr 24, 2019)

I have a 9mm, a Glock 38, a couple of hunting rifles I inherited from my grandfather, a pump-action shotgun and an antique colt 45 revolver. 

My view on gun control: I believe guns should be treated the same way as cars. If you wish to own a license to carry a gun, you should be required to take a safety course, take a written test, and take full responsibility for the upkeep and storage of your firearms (no excuses).  I absolutely believe that the workers of the world have the inalienable right to own and carry a firearm, but their are responsibilities that go with that right. I also believe that the gun debate in the US often leaves out black people in the debate.


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 24, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Also, can we ban phallus shaped grips and parts since they don't contribute any militaty benefit, and are cancer.


I'm waiting for my older brother to get a rifle with an undermount rail so I can get him a TacSac, but I might just get it for my little brother who's into airsoft instead.


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 24, 2019)

Might as well jump in on this thread.



 

Gotta dig up some other pictures, but I've got this overpriced piece of junk in the works


----------



## Rochat (Apr 24, 2019)

Leadhoof said:


> Might as well jump in on this thread.
> 
> View attachment 60412
> 
> Gotta dig up some other pictures, but I've got this overpriced piece of junk in the works


Needs a third pinhole.


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 24, 2019)

Rochat said:


> Needs a third pinhole.



Nice try ATF.


----------



## Rochat (Apr 24, 2019)

Leadhoof said:


> Nice try ATF.



Does the ATF hire cats? Because if they did I'd take a dump on an application and mail it to them.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 24, 2019)

Angelcakes said:


> I have a 9mm, a Glock 38, a couple of hunting rifles I inherited from my grandfather, a pump-action shotgun and an antique colt 45 revolver.
> 
> My view on gun control: I believe guns should be treated the same way as cars. If you wish to own a license to carry a gun, you should be required to take a safety course, take a written test, and take full responsibility for the upkeep and storage of your firearms (no excuses).  I absolutely believe that the workers of the world have the inalienable right to own and carry a firearm, but their are responsibilities that go with that right. I also believe that the gun debate in the US often leaves out black people in the debate.


So long as licenses are "shall issue" I have no problem with requiring those who carry weapons outside of the home/range to prove competency and safe operation of their weapons. CA requires you to pass a firearm safety certification test to buy a gun (one of the few CA gun control laws I support.)

However guns and cars have a huge difference: you have a right to keep and bear a firearm (in the USA anyway) but you don't have the right to drive a car. As s result, licensing requirements should never be a "may issue" thing, because then whoever in the licensing agency who decides your case may decide to deny you your license for any reason, or no reason at all. If you meet the requirements you should be issued the license, period.

As for guns and African-Americans, there's a good reason the gun grabbers never want to bring that up: because of the history of gun control being used to keep guns out of the hands of blacks so that they had no defense against the KKK and tyrannical local governments. Gun control is too often used for population control. It's hard to commit a hate crime when your intended victims are armed.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 25, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I am considering building an AR....
> 
> Probably going for Magpul fore/grip/stock. Not sure who I want for the guts though.


Nodac Spud is always a good choice. They do have occasional long waiting lines for a part, such as the upper and lowers to build a Colt/Armalite 601 clone like I carried in the Air Force. Their machining is top notch and the various finishes the have done for them is just perfect.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 25, 2019)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Nodac Spud is always a good choice. They do have occasional long waiting lines for a part, such as the upper and lowers to build a Colt/Armalite 601 clone like I carried in the Air Force. Their machining is top notch and the various finishes the have done for them is just perfect.


Not the worst I've ever seen, but I do want something with a rail so I can have the option for a scope.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 25, 2019)

Which rifle to get? - Strawpoll.com
Strawpoll: Should I build this AR, or get an M1A?


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 25, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Not the worst I've ever seen, but I do want something with a rail so I can have the option for a scope.



If you're looking to build, Brownells sells a pretty nice railed upper receiver. I've used two of them, and they're high quality.


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 25, 2019)

As seen at the 2286 Nuka World furry convention.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 25, 2019)

Leadhoof said:


> View attachment 60466
> 
> As seen at the 2286 Nuka World furry convention.



I cringe when I see an AK without a dust cover.


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 25, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> I cringe when I see an AK without a dust cover.



Me too, but I wanted to keep it as game-accurate as possible. Doesn't affect the function, and Yugos at least have a locking guide rod.


----------



## Tayoria (Apr 25, 2019)

*raises my hand enthusiastically* I've got a handgun. It's a Sig Sauer p238 HD.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 26, 2019)

Tayoria said:


> *raises my hand enthusiastically* I've got a handgun. It's a Sig Sauer p238 HD.


Pics?


----------



## Angelcakes (Apr 26, 2019)

Telnac said:


> However guns and cars have a huge difference: you have a right to keep and bear a firearm (in the USA anyway) but you don't have the right to drive a car.



Slight correction, but the Second Amendment only says 'Arms', not firearms. It also does not protect the right to manufacture or sell a firearm as well. Obviously, original intent could come into play here, but the Second Amendment on surface is far more vague.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 26, 2019)

Tayoria said:


> *raises my hand enthusiastically* I've got a handgun. It's a Sig Sauer p238 HD.


Well look who it is! ;P

I went with the 938 myself as it for my hands a bit better and 9mm was easier on the wallet. But a great guy either way. Also, what Telnac said, pix plox.


----------



## Tayoria (Apr 26, 2019)




----------



## Tayoria (Apr 26, 2019)

*waves* hiya Jarren! How've you been?


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 26, 2019)

Leadhoof said:


> Might as well jump in on this thread.
> 
> View attachment 60412
> 
> Gotta dig up some other pictures, but I've got this overpriced piece of junk in the works


Whelp, NOW you've given me an idea to keep me busy over the nice warm (DRY!), summer months:
Custom-painting mah mags!


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 26, 2019)

Shadow of Bucephalus said:


> Whelp, NOW you've given me an idea to keep me busy over the nice warm (DRY!), summer months:
> Custom-painting mah mags!



I actually had that one and a few others custom printed. Wouldn't trust myself with that kind of detail.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 26, 2019)

Tayoria said:


> *waves* hiya Jarren! How've you been?


Been quite well! You?


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 26, 2019)

I've settled on building an AR over the M1A. I'm still deciding on 5.56 vs .308


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 26, 2019)

Current Parts I've found so far:
www.magpul.com: MOE® Rifle Stock

www.magpul.com: MOE® M-LOK® Hand Guard, Rifle-Length – AR15/M4

www.magpul.com: MOE-K2+® Grip – AR15/M4

www.magpul.com: M-LOK® Aluminum Rail, 9 Slots

BROWNELLS BRN-4 STRIPPED LOWER RECEIVER | Brownells

BROWNELLS M16 5.56 BOLT CARRIER GROUP NITRIDE MP | Brownells

DPMS AR-15 LOWER PARTS KIT | Brownells

AERO PRECISION AR-15 UPPER PARTS KIT | Brownells

BROWNELLS AR-15/M16 MIL-SPEC BUFFER TUBE ASSEMBLY | Brownells

BROWNELLS AR-15 M4 STRIPPED UPPER RECEIVER BLACK | Brownells

RADIAN WEAPONS AR-15 RAPTOR CHARGING HANDLE 5.56 | Brownells

COLT AR15A4 BOLT RING, 3 PACK | Brownells

Need a gas system and barrel, as well as front optics. Feedback appreciated.


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 26, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Current Parts I've found so far:
> www.magpul.com: MOE® Rifle Stock
> 
> www.magpul.com: MOE® M-LOK® Hand Guard, Rifle-Length – AR15/M4
> ...



I used Del-Ton chrome lined barrels on my last two full length builds, and went with Faxon on my RD race gun.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 26, 2019)

Leadhoof said:


> I used Del-Ton chrome lined barrels on my last two full length builds, and went with Faxon on my RD race gun.


I'm going for longevity on the barrel.


----------



## Leadhoof (Apr 26, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I'm going for longevity on the barrel.



Chrome lined would be the way to go, but I haven't put enough rounds downrange to recommend a manufacturer.

I could also direct you to another forum with much more knowledgeable people than me if you can't get answers here.


----------



## Tayoria (Apr 26, 2019)

Jarren said:


> Been quite well! You?



I've been doing pretty well myself.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Apr 26, 2019)

www.del-ton.com: 20'' Heavy Profile Barrel Kit

And that's a wrap just need a rear sight.

I decided on a Magpul rear iron.


----------



## Saurex (Apr 27, 2019)

I own strange guns, which include a Carcano (6.5 mm), a Ruger Mk I (.22), a Chiappa "Little Badger" (.17 HMR), and a Kel Tec Sub 2000 (9 mm)


----------



## Julen (Jul 24, 2019)

Mang it's a shame I'm always traveling and studying abroad, doesn't leave me much time to focus round getting a license and whatnot.

Few weeks ago buddy of mine and my gf went down to range for a while, had a pretty good time ngl. Friend's a gunsmith and has a metric ton of firearms in his house, a lot of historical ones too (which make me salivate since I'm all over this shit) some of which we took down to the range with us, among them an arisaka (1944 contract from thailand) in 6.5, because fuck finding 7.7 jap, a G98 turned 98k, but retaining the straight bolt and sling attachment points of the G98 (quite baffling if you ask me, and apparently used during the invasion of france), and a 1886 Lebel turned into a sporterized hunting carbine, which was done back in the day and makes it look quite like a berthier carbine tbh (8mm Lebel out of a carbine sized gun real fun, and surprisingly it had excellent sights).

Shamefully the only thing I have kinda have time for is airshit, which seems to be the laughing stock of a good chunk of the firearms community and makes you the "haha yuropoor can't get guns :-DDDDD", but eh, got over it a while ago.

Now as far as that go I'm pretty happy, sine I got a new piece of equipment, thus finishing my second 'nam kit (first one being Squad Leader, around 1968, carrying an A1 and sidearm and about 17 magazines because fuck you).







Got it for a pr decent price, basically half of the current selling price, main drawback is that the bipod is smashed and fat chance finding one decently priced that isn't chink pot metal that fucking snaps if you decide to rest the weight of the gun on it. Had to retighten every, single, fucking screw thus reducing any wobble on this thing, and giving it a good clean. The gb connections were all kindsa fucked and the tamiya plugs that connected it to the mosfet were fubar, had to solve it using a bypass plug and rewiring some shit, now runs just fine, thankfully. Still got some work to do with this whore of a gun, change of springs, reshimming, etc, boring techie shit.






There are still some things that I might change in the future to make it more "Nam", because, for some reason, the dumb motherfuckers over A&K have put a pistol grip and a rear sight that doesn't correspond with the E1 model, but are actually E3 parts.

Apparently my previous kit wasn't heavy enough at about 60+lbs, so now it's bubbling up to 80+lbs because I'm dumb enough to run with all this garbage on me during matches (if it wasn't clear enough I'm going for MG gunner, same time frame). Thing's surprisingly heavy for it being airshit, granted, not as much as the real pig, but 8.8kgs is no slouch, and it only gets heavier when you throw ammo and a few belts of 7.62 around, and the flak jacket doesn't really help much either. 





now that was me nerding out on some fairly unrelated topic, resume tacticoolposting


----------



## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

I don't own a gun but I use a K98k relatively often. It's nothing special, not even a historic one, I think. It's got open sights and nothing else. Shoots pretty well tho.


----------



## Jarren (Jul 24, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I don't own a gun but I use a K98k relatively often. It's nothing special, not even a historic one, I think. It's got open sights and nothing else. Shoots pretty well tho.


Sporterized, I'd imagine. A shame, but if it works it works. They are tools, after all.


----------



## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

_Deagle is love, Deagle is life._


----------



## Moar Krabs (Jul 24, 2019)

Dont own a firearm myself, but I sure do want one of them medieval crossbows (if that counts)


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## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

Jarren said:


> Sporterized, I'd imagine. A shame, but if it works it works. They are tools, after all.



I think it's actually a remanufacture or anything. It's not an actual K98k from WWII. My friend bought it new I think.

I have shot with a historic one at a competition. it's really all the same. It's a gun. it goes poof. As long as the target is far far away, I'm happy, and really don't care about the gun type. (although I am partial to good ammunition and calibers.)


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## Jarren (Jul 24, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I think it's actually a remanufacture or anything. It's not an actual K98k from WWII. My friend bought it new I think.
> 
> I have shot with a historic one at a competition. it's really all the same. It's a gun. it goes poof. As long as the target is far far away, I'm happy, and really don't care about the gun type. (although I am partial to good ammunition and calibers.)


I'm one of those people who is VERY much a historicity fan and it does hurt me to see old rifles sporterized. That said, at least it was a repro/new manufacture.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> _Deagle is love, Deagle is life._


Having shot one;


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## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

Jarren said:


> I'm one of those people who is VERY much a historicity fan and it does hurt me to see old rifles sporterized. That said, at least it was a repro/new manufacture.



I can understand that, I have the same issue on some cars. I'm not a gun nerd per se, I like certain guns, sure (H&K G3 for instance) but I only shoot because it helps me calm down and focus, and because I'm good at it. Therefor I don't mind as long as it's a rifle cartridge and not smaller stuff. I don't like smaller stuff. I don't like pistol shooting too. I can do it, I just don't get satisfaction out of it.



DepressionMachine said:


> _Deagle is love, Deagle is life._



I agree with Misha. I shot one of those things and it really serves no proper purpose except to go boom. a good Sig or H&K handgun will outperform it.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I agree with Misha. I shot one of those things and it really serves no proper purpose except to go boom. a good Sig or H&K handgun will outperform it.


Nah, .50 is still sexier, buddy.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> Nah, .50 is still sexier, buddy.


The problem is anything less than perfect stance invites a jam. Life or death situations where you might actually need to use a firearm are rarely obliging in allowing you a perfect stance, which means the Deagle isn't exactly great to have in a high stress scenario of actual self defense. 

For shooting paper it is fine, and really accurate. I just wouldn't want it for a carry or bear gun.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> The problem is anything less than perfect stance invites a jam. Life or death situations where you might actually need to use a firearm are rarely obliging in allowing you a perfect stance, which means the Deagle isn't exactly great to have in a high stress scenario of actual self defense.
> 
> For shooting paper it is fine, and really accurate. I just wouldn't want it for a carry or bear gun.


Well, no one is really understands, what "Desert Eagle" really is...
Those just see, that this gun is a problem itself, nothing to do with it.
I'm risky boy, this is why I like this gun... Like high-caliber sniper rifles...


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> Well, no one is really understands, what "Desert Eagle" really is...
> Those just see, that this gun is a problem itself, nothing to do with it.
> I'm risky boy, this is why I like this gun... Like high-caliber sniper rifles...


High caliber sniper rifles don't jam, and have vastly superior ballistics. I'd rather not carry one in public for reasons of practicality, but if I had to in a pinch I'd be confident that it would go bang and cycle every time.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> High caliber sniper rifles don't jam, and have vastly superior ballistics. I'd rather not carry one in public for reasons of practicality, but if I had to in a pinch I'd be confident that it would go bang and cycle every time.


Don't tell me Deagle jams like every 10 seconds...
And why should you carry your sniper in public? Sniper rifle made for long-range shooting, it is obvious. It's not your innacurate AK-47.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

But I personally like some AK's... I'm not saying automatic rifles are bad... So you can chill.


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## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> Well, no one is really understands, what "Desert Eagle" really is...
> Those just see, that this gun is a problem itself, nothing to do with it.
> I'm risky boy, this is why I like this gun... Like high-caliber sniper rifles...



Now, I want to disgress here. I'm not a military or self-defense shooter. I don't carry a gun (would be illegal in germany anyhow) I just shoot. I do shooting under stress as well (with people stepping on my ankles and something to improve concentration and focus). 

I don't see where the desert eagle would be of any advantage to me when shooting against enemy combatants. Most 9mm Luger handguns will be as lethal as a deagle, and even if you mess up the opening shots, placing follow-up shots is easier if you have to do less recoil management. You have the advantage of a lighter(even on a full size handgun) easier to carry and to handle handgun, and you have more ammunition. 

I don't see the advantage of shooting vs. game/survival situations gun. I'd always go for a revolver with decently sized ammunition in those cases. Revolvers are mechanically simple, and are harder to break. The Deagle is afaik a gas actuated gun, which adds complexity and risk of breakage, something I wouldn't want in a survival situation.

From what I'm seeing it, it's more a sports gun you fire for fun - which is not necessarily a bad thing. Sports cars are awsome too. For someone who's more a form follows function person the Deagle has no appeal to me

Sniper rifles are an entirely different piece of cake.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> Now, I want to disgress here. I'm not a military or self-defense shooter. I don't carry a gun (would be illegal in germany anyhow) I just shoot. I do shooting under stress as well (with people stepping on my ankles and something to improve concentration and focus).
> 
> I don't see where the desert eagle would be of any advantage to me when shooting against enemy combatants. Most 9mm Luger handguns will be as lethal as a deagle, and even if you mess up the opening shots, placing follow-up shots is easier if you have to do less recoil management. You have the advantage of a lighter(even on a full size handgun) easier to carry and to handle handgun, and you have more ammunition.
> 
> ...


You want to say Deagle is weak against some 9mm handguns?

I also want to remind you, that Deagle is using .50 Action Express, .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum.

Yes, Deagle has 7/8/9 rounds, but this is not a trouble, because of caliber.

It's big and heavy, with big recoil... But the shooting distance and accuracy is bad?

It jams sometimes... _Did you forgot about caliber?_

You sounded like Deagle is nothing for handguns, like 9mm Glock with 20 rounds, doesnt matter if its _semi_ or _auto_.

Desert Eagle in a hands of person, who can handle this big recoil and shoots accurately - *dangerous thing.*

Whatever, if you hate it or like it - you can shut this topic, and then I will do the same, I'm not just sitting and reading somebody saying that it's bad...

As you said that you are not expert of it - I'm same, but I always analysing advantages and disadvantages. I'm not saying it's a best handgun, but it still has advantages against 9mm handguns.

Sorry, I have to watch anime... x|


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

I like handguns like Colt 1911, Glock 17/18, Five Seven, H&K USP and some revolvers... If somebody says Deagle (or whatever) is bad - It's their opinion. I'm not mind against it.


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## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> You want to say Deagle is weak against some 9mm handguns?
> 
> I also want to remind you, that Deagle is using .50 Action Express, .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum.
> 
> ...




But the caliber isn't worth jack if you know how to shoot. It's always going to be lethal. 9mm to the head or .50AE to the head of an enemy combatant is going to end in the same result. The .50AE is going to require more training, more recoil control, and will have a harder time placing a follow-up shot should the first miss. The caliber is worthless too if the gun doesn't shoot or runs out of ammo. There's only one thing that can substitue ammunition and that's more ammunition. We're not comparing it to cartridges like .22LR or something, 9mm Luger is a powerful cartridge.

I'm giving the point on the accurracy and the range, that's superior to 9mm Luger - albeit any gun will be dangerous in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot.

I'm merely pointing out that I'm no expert to tactical shooting/self defense tactics. I have shot a lot of guns in my time, and I know which guns I can shoot well with and which annoy me. The Deagle was not pleasant to shoot, and from where I'm standing it simply doesn't do anything in reality that a 9mm will not do the same.

It can still be an enjoyable gun and one can still like it - that's past the point. Personal tastes are just that, personal, and fortunately most of us don't have to carry a gun and rely on it for a day-to-day purpose, so we can afford to even like guns that might be slightly impractical but fun.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> But the caliber isn't worth jack if you know how to shoot. It's always going to be lethal. 9mm to the head or .50AE to the head of an enemy combatant is going to end in the same result. The .50AE is going to require more training, more recoil control, and will have a harder time placing a follow-up shot should the first miss. The caliber is worthless too if the gun doesn't shoot or runs out of ammo. There's only one thing that can substitue ammunition and that's more ammunition. We're not comparing it to cartridges like .22LR or something, 9mm Luger is a powerful cartridge.
> 
> I'm giving the point on the accurracy and the range, that's superior to 9mm Luger - albeit any gun will be dangerous in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot.
> 
> ...


The same result of 9mm and .50AE - true, but you forgot about kelvars and helmets.
9mm isn't problem for these, besides .50AE. 

9mm Luger is a powerful cartridge... but .50AE is weak, as you want to say, right?
Comparing bullet energy of these calibers:
9mm = 450-650 J; .50AE = 1600-2200 J.
.50AE is just a mini version of .50 Caliber (18942 J) made for handguns.

Also, as you say that "The caliber is worthless if the gun doesn't shoot or runs out of ammo." I want to mention P90, MAC-10, MP5, any guns that has high rpm and low magazine... Are they worthless? They run out of ammo fast.
Deagle could shoot fast, but it will be painful... because of high recoil. 

I don't think Desert Eagle is worthless... But sometimes you could get troubles with it, if you're not mastered with that handcannon.


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## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> The same result of 9mm and .50AE - true, but you forgot about kelvars and helmets.
> 9mm isn't problem for these, besides .50AE.
> 
> 9mm Luger is a powerful cartridge... but .50AE is weak, as you want to say, right?
> ...



Want to get that out of the way first - I didn't say .50AE is less powerful than 9mm Luger - It's absolutely more powerful. I wouldn't argue that ever.

When facing opponents wearing body armour - you should switch to using armour-piercing rounds like 5.7x28 or similar - or you should use rifle cartridges like 5.56 NATO or 7.62NATO 

Also, the P90 has~ 50 rounds, the MP5 ~30 (I don't know the MAC-10's ammunition capacity.) That's way way more than a Desert eagle's 7 rounds. Even fully automatic guns have a semi-automatic mode and it should be used most of the time. 

Thing is with "getting into trouble" is that life's not a videogame, if someone is attacking you and you need to use lethal violence to protect yourself you'd want the gun to work in your favour. it's like with race cars. They're supposed to be controllable, because you need to work with your car to win.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

I think let's shut this topic and keep this thread clear for others, this is not going to be good.


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## ConorHyena (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> I think let's shut this topic and keep this thread clear for others, this is not going to be good.



I was under the impression this thread was for talk about gun topics but sure, no problem!


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I was under the impression this thread was for talk about gun topics but sure, no problem!


I didn't forgot about the real topic... And I want to watch anime in peace...


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

Things are not always perfect... They are good and bad. And people's opinions didn't fit with each other opinions... So anybody can like or hate a thing, where they found something that condratict with their opinion.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 24, 2019)

Just a general statement that no pistol caliber, including .50ae, can penetrate anything but LV I body armor with anything resembling consistency.


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Just a general statement that no pistol caliber, including .50ae, can penetrate anything but LV I body armor with anything resembling consistency.


Hey, I said to shut this topic...
But did I say that .50AE can penerate anything?
Yes or no, don't argue about this topic please.


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## volkinaxe (Jul 24, 2019)

my  5.5mm  air gun 


https://imgur.com/XGshTMS


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## Ringo the Wolf (Jul 24, 2019)

volkinaxe said:


> my  5.5mm  air gun
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/XGshTMS


Do you snipe somebody with it?


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## volkinaxe (Jul 24, 2019)

DepressionMachine said:


> Do you snipe somebody with it?


I use it for  hunting possum and rats


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 24, 2019)

I wouldn't mind having a short-barrel Ruger Standard, but shooting ranges are full of gun nuts, and gun nuts creep me out.


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## Jarren (Jul 24, 2019)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I wouldn't mind having a short-barrel Ruger Standard, but shooting ranges are full of gun nuts, and gun nuts creep me out.


We're a strange bunch XD




volkinaxe said:


> I use it for  hunting possum and rats


Had a friend who used his air rifle to take care of woodchucks that were marauding in his garden. Eventually, one of them got wise and started presenting a harder and harder target and got fatter and fatter. This woodchuck eventually got to the point where his sheer amount of fat allowed him to shrug off a hit from the air rifle (or maybe it was just a bad shot. More likely, but I like my version XD) So he stepped it up to a .308 rifle. But the woodchuck, inexplicably, began to only stop in front of valuable lawn equipment whenever he was around, and my friend didn't wanna damage his yard stuff. However, after a few weeks, the woodchuck stopped in front of a broken ride-on mower. Not caring about what happened to the broken piece of machinery, my friend finally put the woodchuck to rest, ending a two year feud XD


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## volkinaxe (Jul 24, 2019)

Jarren said:


> We're a strange bunch XD
> 
> 
> 
> Had a friend who used his air rifle to take care of woodchucks that were marauding in his garden. Eventually, one of them got wise and started presenting a harder and harder target and got fatter and fatter. This woodchuck eventually got to the point where his sheer amount of fat allowed him to shrug off a hit from the air rifle (or maybe it was just a bad shot. More likely, but I like my version XD) So he stepped it up to a .308 rifle. But the woodchuck, inexplicably, began to only stop in front of valuable lawn equipment whenever he was around, and my friend didn't wanna damage his yard stuff. However, after a few weeks, the woodchuck stopped in front of a broken ride-on mower. Not caring about what happened to the broken piece of machinery, my friend finally put the woodchuck to rest, ending a two year feud XD


my air gun go`s  up to 1000 fps  I will be making a video on it on my youtube channel www.youtube.com: tjtv


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## MaelstromEyre (Jul 25, 2019)

We own, and hoping that our state soon becomes another that does not require a special license for conceal carry.

No, we're not "gun totin' lunatics."  We haven't had one out of the safe in months.

But, we camp, and we spend time in the woods, and you can't depend on a park ranger to come to your rescue if you get into trouble.  ANd by trouble, I mean park creepers.  Yes, they exist.  We have encountered them.  People on drugs, people growing drugs, people who just make the hair on your neck and arms stand up because there's something "not right" about them.

And, we have also been victims of a break in in the past.  We live in a rural area.  If someone comes in the house, even if I call the police right away it may be ten or fifteen minutes before they arrive.


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## Catdog (Jul 25, 2019)

I don't have any I just borrowed my roommate's to look cool online


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## Telnac (Jul 25, 2019)

Catdog said:


> View attachment 66508
> 
> I don't have any I just borrowed my roommate's to look cool online


Bah. I'm certain you'll own your own soon enough.


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## Jarren (Jul 25, 2019)

I mean, the thread was fine for the longest time, and it's just appreciation and discussion of the devices themselves, not the politics or legality of them.
Plus,  @Connor J. Coyote , moving it there would invite discussion/topics I never intended to appear in this thread. As the OP, I'd much rather that not happen.


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## Catdog (Jul 25, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Bah. I'm certain you'll own your own soon enough.


I hope so! When I lived in rural Georgia my family owned mostly heirloom firearms so it'd be cool to finally have something to take to the range. Probably not an AR though. Rather have something I could also feasibly hunt with lol.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 25, 2019)

Catdog said:


> I hope so! When I lived in rural Georgia my family owned mostly heirloom firearms so it'd be cool to finally have something to take to the range. Probably not an AR though. Rather have something I could also feasibly hunt with lol.


An AR would be fine for smaller game, and you could get an AR style rifle in .308/6.5 Creedmore if you're willing to pay a bit.


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## Catdog (Jul 25, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> An AR would be fine for smaller game, and you could get an AR style rifle in .308/6.5 Creedmore if you're willing to pay a bit.


Tbh after handling my roommate's AR-15 and AR-18 I just felt kind of meh compared to handling the like 30 year old Winchester my dad had. Maybe I'm just a blithering sentimentalist though. I know they're not "better" but I love the nostalgia of older models and antiques lol.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 25, 2019)

Catdog said:


> Tbh after handling my roommate's AR-15 and AR-18 I just felt kind of meh compared to handling the like 30 year old Winchester my dad had. Maybe I'm just a blithering sentimentalist though. I know they're not "better" but I love the nostalgia of older models and antiques lol.


Oh I'm the same way, I was just putting options on your table. I wish the M1 Garand and M1A weren't so fiddly with their gas systems, because I would be all over those guns.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 25, 2019)

MaelstromEyre said:


> We own, and hoping that our state soon becomes another that does not require a special license for conceal carry.
> 
> No, we're not "gun totin' lunatics."  We haven't had one out of the safe in months.
> 
> ...


Yours might be one of the few arguments for gun ownership where I'd lean heavily in favor. Not looking for trouble or a thrill, but legitimacy concerned for your safety.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jul 25, 2019)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> @SSJ3Mewtwo @Scrydan
> I'm going to go ahead and flag this thread; as I think - as a lot of other people do, I'm sure - that *this should probably be moved to the Politics section*.... as it's a divisive, somewhat polarizing topic - that has some (potentially) controversial statements, photos, and elements to it.
> 
> Yay, or no?


I'm fine with this thread remaining where it is.  Gun ownership itself is not a political topic.  Admitedly there are political topics brought up, but those aren't the thread's focus.  A more dedicated gun politics thread can be made in the Politics and News section though.


----------



## Willow (Jul 25, 2019)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> It's a fair enough concern I brought up, regardless...... I mean - if we have a thread about chihuahua's next to a thread about Uzi's - it does give some us on here, some pause...


The cool thing about general discussion is that the range of topics people talk about is pretty broad. If you personally don't like guns that's fine, but isn't it a bit childish to try and instigate a debate if all people are doing is discussing the guns they own?


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## Jarren (Jul 25, 2019)

^This. Keeps it all nice and collected in one corner, not bleeding into other threads.


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## Xitheon (Jul 26, 2019)

I don't like guns.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 26, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> I don't like guns.
> [Redacted Image]


You might want to delete that because it could be construed as endorsing suicide. That and as someone who used to suffer from depression and almost used a hobby knife to take their own life, and who had a friend blow their own chest open with a shotgun it comes off as painfully tasteless.


----------



## ConorHyena (Jul 26, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> You might want to delete that because it could be construed as endorsing suicide. That and as someone who used to suffer from depression and almost used a hobby knife to take their own life, and who had a friend blow their own chest open with a shotgun it comes off as painfully tasteless.



I don't find it funny either.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jul 26, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> You might want to delete that because it could be construed as endorsing suicide. That and as someone who used to suffer from depression and almost used a hobby knife to take their own life, and who had a friend blow their own chest open with a shotgun it comes off as painfully tasteless.



It's in poor taste, but not a big deal overall.  

Posting in a gun owners thread with the line that they don't like guns is the weirder choice.


----------



## Xitheon (Jul 26, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> You might want to delete that because it could be construed as endorsing suicide. That and as someone who used to suffer from depression and almost used a hobby knife to take their own life, and who had a friend blow their own chest open with a shotgun it comes off as painfully tasteless.



Talking about and promoting gun ownership is tasteless.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 26, 2019)




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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 26, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> Talking about and promoting gun ownership is tasteless.


----------



## Catdog (Jul 26, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> Talking about and promoting gun ownership is tasteless.


arm trans people tho

to clarify: in a military state ofc im gonna own a gun lmao why would i wanna disarm people murdered in swathes by the state


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 26, 2019)

Catdog said:


> arm trans people tho
> 
> to clarify: in a military state ofc im gonna own a gun lmao why would i wanna disarm people murdered in swathes by the state






www.facebook.com: Armed Equality


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jul 26, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> Talking about and promoting gun ownership is tasteless.



I mentioned this just prior.  It's a weird choice to enter a gun ownership thread and post stuff like 'guns are bad'.

I'll take it a step up from just mentioning it though, and lay it out more clearly:

If you do not intend to participate in the thread's intended discussion topic, please stay out of the thread.  

If you continue to make posts which appear to be deliberately ignoring the thread's intended purpose, or stir up drama, you will have administrative action taken against your account.


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## Garfieldthefatkittey (Jul 26, 2019)

Y'all better bring these to the area 51 raid


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## Garfieldthefatkittey (Jul 26, 2019)

Yakamaru said:


> Can't have a firearm thread without the Barret 50. caliber! For when hunting armored elephants!
> 
> Believe it or not, but you can actually buy this shit in the US. Same with a vehicle-mounted MG.


Yes I have seen it in a mrbeast video


----------



## Xitheon (Jul 27, 2019)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> I mentioned this just prior.  It's a weird choice to enter a gun ownership thread and post stuff like 'guns are bad'.
> 
> I'll take it a step up from just mentioning it though, and lay it out more clearly:
> 
> ...



I'll stop. But I'd be proud to be banned for objecting to the glorification of murder weapons.


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## Infrarednexus (Jul 27, 2019)

Last month I visited my grandfather who let my test his new .44 magnum at his private range in the woods. It has one heck of a kick to it.


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## Bink (Jul 27, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> I'll stop. But I'd be proud to be banned for objecting to the glorification of murder weapons.


Have a problem with swords? Those have killed plenty of people in history too..

People are murderous, not objects 

Also_ giggles hysterically _


----------



## ConorHyena (Jul 27, 2019)

I have to go to the range again soon. 

I haven't fired a gun in too long.


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## Stag_In_Padding (Jul 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Just a general statement that no pistol caliber, including .50ae, can penetrate anything but LV I body armor with anything resembling consistency.


You obviously don't know enough about pistol calibers, to make such an ignorant statement.


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## Stag_In_Padding (Jul 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> An AR would be fine for smaller game, and you could get an AR style rifle in .308/6.5 Creedmore if you're willing to pay a bit.


I take-down Elk and Moose with my AR 5.56.
How much 'Smaller Game' are you referring to?
Kodiak Bears?


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## Stag_In_Padding (Jul 27, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> Talking about and promoting gun ownership is tasteless.


Every violent criminal and homicidal maniac would agree with you.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 27, 2019)

Please don't hunt large game with intermediate cartridges. They have insufficient penetration and terminal effect, which can lead to slow and gruesome kills or just flat out maiming of an animal. The goal of a hunter is to kill humanely and successfully, and using cartridges designed to kill a man sized target on something the size of two is tempting a brutal fate no honest hunter should stand.


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## Stag_In_Padding (Jul 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Please don't hunt large game with intermediate cartridges. They have insufficient penetration and terminal effect, which can lead to slow and gruesome kills or just flat out maiming of an animal. The goal of a hunter is to kill humanely and successfully, and using cartridges designed to kill a man sized target on something the size of two is tempting a brutal fate no honest hunter should stand.


Only if you're that poor of a Marksman.

Try harder.


----------



## ConorHyena (Jul 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Please don't hunt large game with intermediate cartridges. They have insufficient penetration and terminal effect, which can lead to slow and gruesome kills or just flat out maiming of an animal. The goal of a hunter is to kill humanely and successfully, and using cartridges designed to kill a man sized target on something the size of two is tempting a brutal fate no honest hunter should stand.



I agree with Misha. There's really no reason not to use proper hunting rifles while hunting. AR15's not really suited to that. 
"the right tool for the right job" springs to mind.


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## Vamux (Jul 27, 2019)

An armed society is a polite society.

Sadly, though, I don't personally own a firearm. But my experiences with the M4A1 gave me a pretty good taste of what it'd be like, and I dream to own at least one handgun sometime in the future.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 27, 2019)

Using a smaller round for large game guarantees the kill will be slower, and is thus unethical. Smaller bullets simply make smaller holes. Using an oversized round for small game can also be problematic due not enough kinetic energy being transferred to the target to cause substantial tissue damage as the result of over-penetration; if it doesn't just reduce the critter to an unusable mess rendering one of the key tenents of not wasting what you kill moot.

If you hunt, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure quick kills and make full use of what you kill. I find wilfully ignoring that duty disturbing and mercifully uncommon among hunters.


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## ConorHyena (Jul 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> If you hunt, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure quick kills and make full use of what you kill. I find wilfully ignoring that duty disturbing and mercifully uncommon among hunters.



I have seen too many hunters in Germany shoot sloppy because they are afraid of their gun's recoil tho


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 27, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I have seen too many hunters in Germany shoot sloppy because they are afraid of their gun's recoil tho


Tell 'em to go back to the range, buy a crate of ammo, and get used to it first.


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## ConorHyena (Jul 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Tell 'em to go back to the range, buy a crate of ammo, and get used to it first.



Some of them have been shooting for quite a while


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 27, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> Some of them have been shooting for quite a while


Sounds like learned bad habits. For one, they shouldn't hunt. For two, they are going to want to look into drills or training to unlearn those habits.


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## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 27, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Using a smaller round for large game guarantees the kill will be slower, and is thus unethical. Smaller bullets simply make smaller holes. Using an oversized round for small game can also be problematic due not enough kinetic energy being transferred to the target to cause substantial tissue damage as the result of over-penetration; if it doesn't just reduce the critter to an unusable mess rendering one of the key tenents of not wasting what you kill moot.
> 
> If you hunt, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure quick kills and make full use of what you kill. I find wilfully ignoring that duty disturbing and mercifully uncommon among hunters.


'Gun Control', is putting your round exactly where it needs to go.
Don't try to educate me about the lethality of the 5.56.
If I don't have the shot?  I don't take it.
Simple as that.
'Responsibility'.
Something that is sorely lacking in today's society.


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## Revolver_Thotcelot (Aug 27, 2019)

I own a Brown Bess for Rev War reenacting. Definitely one of the best guns I’ve used in my life.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 27, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> 'Gun Control', is putting your round exactly where it needs to go.
> Don't try to educate me about the lethality of the 5.56.
> If I don't have the shot?  I don't take it.
> Simple as that.
> ...


And you sir are the best example of that seeing as you can't be assed to use an appropriate round for game when hunting.


Stag_In_Padding said:


> You obviously don't know enough about pistol calibers, to make such an ignorant statement.














Pistols suck at defeating body armor. That isn't even body armor in good quality in these videos. Some of it is probably past it's use by date.

The laws that banned armor piercing ammo for civilian sale had to use expired soft body armor to make their little pistol demonstration convincing for the courts.

Pistol rounds aren't great, with their true advantage being that they can be fired from a convenient and compact platform as a practical "oh shit!" gun. Never overestimate their capabilities. 

Guns are real mechanical devices that follow the laws of physics. They aren't magic "push button kill a thing" devices. Gas that burns at a high rate pushes a metal slug down a tube, maybe with some spin to stabilize their flight. That slug only has so much force and so much precision. It pushes against air resistance and wind. It then (ideally) hits a target, deforming as it penetrates and/or transfers it's kinetic energy to the target. This causes damage to the target, depending on the type of round fired. A round that fires with more energy has a greater amount of energy to expend into or through a target. 

This can especially be a concern where terminal effect is involved in hunting. 

5.56 NATO hits at around the 1755J. 

7.62 NATO delivers around 3500J under the same conditions, and carries more energy over greater distances. 

Why you would ever think it a good idea to use half as much force to hunt the same animal is beyond me. The wound is going to be half as severe at testing ranges and even worse further out. That reduces shock, and prolongs the death of your quarry. 

5.56 is great from a military perspective because you only need to wound the enemy bad enough he is unable to fight, and needs a medic. Because the goal is to win the war, not exterminate the enemy military. That soldier you hit has a family, and with (a lot of) luck he may still go home to it. So the logic goes. 

5.56 can kill, but it's not as good at it as larger cartridges. What it is good at is being light and smaller so more rounds can be carried, and having a low recoil allowing more accurate sustained fire and effective suppression. Round for round it's also cheaper. Perfect for putting a lot of debilitating or lethal holes in the enemy, or keeping them pinned 'till air support can do it's job. 

But when hunting you want your quarry dead as dead gets, and fast. Something the 5.56 isn't great at compared to full size rounds.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 28, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> Only if you're that poor of a Marksman.
> 
> Try harder.



Illegal, actually.  Hunters are required to use ammunition and firearms of certain designs for certain game.  That changes based on region, since different regions have different laws.  But taking shots at a deer with a .22lr will get game wardens arresting you.


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## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> And you sir are the best example of that seeing as you can't be assed to use an appropriate round for game when hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have no idea what I'm talking about/doing.
You caught me, Misha.
YOU know me and my skills/hunting/kills/freezers full of meat from various animals, better than I do.
Did I say I never hunted with other calibers?  No, I did not.  I know for a fact my 5.56 is very suitable for taking down anything up to Elk/Bear/Moose/Hog, unless I manage a sniped shot (which I am not particularly fond of for hunting animals).  For those larger animals yes, I use a much more powerful cartridge range.
You, my self-deluded little Man(?), are full of yourself.  
Mind peering into deep, still pools of water now.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> And you sir are the best example of that seeing as you can't be assed to use an appropriate round for game when hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're addicted to videos that promote whatever stance you happen to believe.  Even if said stance is utter garbage.  I don't particularly have a problem with videos, except that you try to use them as a visual club against anyone that doesn't share your ideals.
Do you know why pistol calibers are great at defeating body armor?
You don't aim center mass at the armored assailant.
I know, what a revelation.
Only if you're just a keyboard warrior that's never actually been in a real fire-fight against people trying to kill you, first.
Now, I see a fully armored assailant decked-out in plate/mail?  I'm going to have a field day at King Arthur's Court!


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Aug 28, 2019)

Gun control isn't putting your round where it needs to go, that's a function of breathing while aiming.  It is a political initiative to remove military assault weapons from civilian hands.

Responsibility is lacking, but that is the safe handling, usage, and care of a firearm under personal control.

My question is this, and it comes from combat experience:
Why the 5.56 round for hunting?  It is designed to cause an entry and exit round of roughly the same size.  I mean, you are correct it is cheaper and lighter.  I just see it causing more injury than killing.

The 7.62 tumbles on initial impact, so I don't see a trophy kill coming from it.  Wouldn't a .203 bolt action be better?

And why do you need a magazine fed weapon?

Now, for the .50as action express, it was not designed by the Israelis for penetrating armor.  It was designed to be a sizable round to be stopped by armor and transfer kinetic damage to the person wearing said armor.

Also, military training,  yes, we are indeed trained center mass. So is law enforcement.  Biggest target is the torso.

Rifles, iron sights or red dot, shoulders up at 300meters.  still, center mass prefered.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 28, 2019)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Illegal, actually.  Hunters are required to use ammunition and firearms of certain designs for certain game.  That changes based on region, since different regions have different laws.  But taking shots at a deer with a .22lr will get game wardens arresting you.


There are ordinances/regulations on certain types of ammo being mandated for a given style of hunting.  Mostly in the usage of lead shot vs steel/alternate.
I know of no 'Limitation' on any game I've hunted, regarding the cartridge(s) I choose.  I am totally aware that States and hunting areas have rules and stipulations for enjoying that pursuit.  I've no problem with this in most of the instances.
Pause for a moment and rethink what you said.
Bow hunting is still a very legal/considered 'Humane' manner of taking down the largest of game animals. 
An arrow.
I'll pit my .22 LR placed through the eye socket into the cranium as a very lethal manner of killing a large game animal.  Same with a direct hit square-on to the forehead if they're close enough.  We regularly put down herd animals in exactly that manner.  Bulls weighing a ton, Bison, Hogs, etc..  
Would I use the .22 LR to hunt large game?  No.  What can be done, doesn't always mean that's what/how it should be done.
Stop trying to tell me what will or will not work.  The skill-set of the Hunter matters as much as the type of weaponry/caliber-of-firearm they're wielding.
Bottom line in every instance is simple-
If you're not sure you're going to hit and put down the animal you have in your sights?
Don't squeeze the damn trigger.
That's the one rule for humane hunting that is beyond dispute.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 28, 2019)

Minerva_Minx said:


> Gun control isn't putting your round where it needs to go, that's a function of breathing while aiming.  It is a political initiative to remove military assault weapons from civilian hands.
> 
> Responsibility is lacking, but that is the safe handling, usage, and care of a firearm under personal control.
> 
> ...



Gun Control is exactly being able to put your round where you want it to go.  Everything else is a mere 'How To' manage it.  We can agree to disagree.
You bring up a few things of interest (to the discussion), so I'm happy to answer them in the order presented.
Why the 5.56?  I know it very well.  I've been using it for over 30 years (or thereabouts?  I honestly can't remember the first AR I bought that was chambered in the 5.56, which has superior ballistics to the usual .223).  I've also used them in single-shot, break barreled pistols but admit I'm not as fond of hunting large game with pistols if I can avoid it.  I prefer rifles, but always have a pistol or two as back-up depending on where I'm at and what's around me.
Here's another reason I carry/use my AR rifles so often.  It keeps me in practice and my muscle-memory for operating the damn things could probably be done in my sleep at this point (not a wise option for responsible firearm usage!).
You have to know the limitations of your equipment.  Would I try to take-down a Bull Elk at 500 yards with my 5.56?  Hell no.  It loses far too much velocity (and the g-damned drop is ridiculous).  Anything up to 200 yards if the profile is correct?  Hell yes.  I'd rather see it no further than 100 yards.  Damn getting old and eyesight being compromised!  lol
Would I prefer to use my 30.06/7mm Magnum/other larger (than the 5.56) cartridges?  Hell yes.
What so many people don't know or refuse to accept?  The .223/5.56 rifle round is traveling at hyper velocities.  That is why they're so damned lethal.  They put a small hole IN the hide/skin of your target, and depending on how you aimed/their body profile/anatomy/type of projectile being used, that round is going to render soft tissue inside the body cavity to mush.  The wound cavities can be very impressive (though not always so!).  Heart shots result in the heart exploding, resulting in instant death to the animal, little to zero suffering.
If the animal is small (think white tailed, black, mule deer tend to run medium-to-larger), you CAN see a round travel right through the body.  It happens, but again if you land your shot where it needs to go (heart), the heart is not going to function even with a go-through hit.
I'm getting too gruesome for a Furry Site.  I'm a meat eater and proud of the fact I hunt/raise/barter nearly all the meat I consume.  I loathe factory farms for instance.

I have dropped elk and once a moose with my 5.56.  They gave me a perfect shot, I took it, they didn't even start to run:  they dropped in place.  

Why a magazine-fed weapon?  Simple.  Faster follow up shots, and if you happen to stumble across a pissed off bear/cougar/feral pig?  You're going to pray you have more than one round if it's needed.  From my AR's, Garands, BAR's, all of them are semi auto (I do own a few bolt/break action but those are mostly for target shooting now) and provide me with a minimum of 4 shots (my BAR in 7mm Magnum), up to and including my AR's that have the standard capacity 30 round mags (though I usually just outfit with the 20 rounds due to a better posture if firing from the prone position.)


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 28, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> There are ordinances/regulations on certain types of ammo being mandated for a given style of hunting.  Mostly in the usage of lead shot vs steel/alternate.
> I know of no 'Limitation' on any game I've hunted, regarding the cartridge(s) I choose.  I am totally aware that States and hunting areas have rules and stipulations for enjoying that pursuit.  I've no problem with this in most of the instances.
> Pause for a moment and rethink what you said.
> Bow hunting is still a very legal/considered 'Humane' manner of taking down the largest of game animals.
> ...





 
Do you see that wound channel? Bullets put neat little holes through things with tearing due to cavitation. Arrows achieve similar decimation through cutting the everliving fuck out of whatever they hit. An arrowhead use on appropriate game can easily do the same job as a bullet, but requires a different skill set and closer range. 


Stag_In_Padding said:


> Gun Control is exactly being able to put your round where you want it to go.  Everything else is a mere 'How To' manage it.  We can agree to disagree.
> You bring up a few things of interest (to the discussion), so I'm happy to answer them in the order presented.
> Why the 5.56?  I know it very well.  I've been using it for over 30 years (or thereabouts?  I honestly can't remember the first AR I bought that was chambered in the 5.56, which has superior ballistics to the usual .223).  I've also used them in single-shot, break barreled pistols but admit I'm not as fond of hunting large game with pistols if I can avoid it.  I prefer rifles, but always have a pistol or two as back-up depending on where I'm at and what's around me.
> Here's another reason I carry/use my AR rifles so often.  It keeps me in practice and my muscle-memory for operating the damn things could probably be done in my sleep at this point (not a wise option for responsible firearm usage!).
> ...







First and foremost, detachable box magazines are not required for semi-automatic fire. From the SKS to the M1 Garand, Semi Automatic Rifles have been using other methods than box magazines to carry decent amounts of ammunition. 

Detachable Box Magazines are useful because they can be changed quickly, especially during a firefight. For 2A purposes that matters, but in a "Wild Hog" related situation, even a half decent bolt action rifle will do you just fine as long as it holds more than one round. Hell, with your marksmanship, one round should be all you need right? 

Which takes me to my next question, have you ever actually been in combat? Because if you have you damn well know there is no "aiming at their head because their wearing body armor" in a combat zone. You put the enemy in a good enough sight picture and squeeze. The only time you get that kind of discretion without putting your own ass and your teams at needless risk is when you get to shoot first in an ambush or when sniping the enemy. And that's nowhere near as common in recent military engagements in US history. 

The time you spend aiming for the head with a pistol against someone in body armor could be spent putting more rounds on that individual. Again, pistols aren't useless, but they aren't great in terms of ballistics. 



Stag_In_Padding said:


> What so many people don't know or refuse to accept?  The .223/5.56 rifle round is traveling at hyper velocities.


I am going to stop the pseudoscience screed here. Hyper-velocity is over 3000 m/s. 5.56 travels *maybe* 1000 with some really hot loads. Do you know what travels a similar velocity? Literally every rifle caliber bullet. The difference in speed does not nearly make up the fact the 5.56 round has less than half the weight of full size calibers. The result is that it has dispenses half the energy of said rounds in a target. 5.56 isn't a magic scifi laser death gun, it's an accurate midsize caliber suitable for military use in typical engagements where it's low recoil allows it to be use as a pocket mg. They tried doing that with larger calibers with the M14 and...we'll just say it wasn't exactly a success. 



Minerva_Minx said:


> Gun control isn't putting your round where it needs to go, that's a function of breathing while aiming.  It is a political initiative to remove military assault weapons from civilian hands.


For you I have nicer replies. While I don't agree with gun control, gun control is not merely assaults weapons bans, but any government policy that seeks to control the sale or distribution of weapons with the populace of a nation beyond the scope of enforcing quality standards and consumer protections (a gun should ideally not explode in the hand upon use despite what certain companies think). 


Minerva_Minx said:


> Why the 5.56 round for hunting?  It is designed to cause an entry and exit round of roughly the same size.  I mean, you are correct it is cheaper and lighter.  I just see it causing more injury than killing.


It's great for smaller game. 


Minerva_Minx said:


> The 7.62 tumbles on initial impact, so I don't see a trophy kill coming from it.  Wouldn't a .203 bolt action be better?


7.62x51, not 7.62x39


Minerva_Minx said:


> Now, for the .50as action express, it was not designed by the Israelis for penetrating armor.  It was designed to be a sizable round to be stopped by armor and transfer kinetic damage to the person wearing said armor.


While the Desert Eagle was developed by IMI, the .50AE round was developed separately, and only adopted in later models of the Firearm. The original intended rounds for it were the .357 and .44 magnum rounds. The .50AE version was an afterthought, and not entirely a practical one at that. Israel has always had a demand for compact weapons with a high power due to the type of fighting they do.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 28, 2019)

@Stag_In_Padding
There is this thing called science and evidence, where presumptions should be practically tested. I work a full time job with the afternoon shift and have other budget priorities, so I'm not going to splurge on a few kevlar vests and a safe full of handguns to prove a point. Some people however have more money and time on their hands to grab a kevlar vest and put rounds in it to see how they do, and like the internet fame. That's nothing to speak of how body armor is rated to begin with. 

I back up my claims with evidence because that's the appropriate thing to do when making a claim. I really don't understand why you are so hostile to that concept.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Aug 28, 2019)

Thanks to both for clarifying.  Most of the time I find issue, it is a difference of opinion, and I am good with that.  In the case of gun control, differing terminology and definition.  Easily corrected.

However, I could not follow this thread as what I know seemed to clash with the arguments presented on both sides.  It seems like different hunting styles and techniques and philosophies.  

Again, just genuine curiosity given ballistics and how I have experienced the 5.56 and 7.62 rounds behave based on impacts.  Thanks for clarifying on the x39.  I thought about it but wasn't sure given the size of the game being discussed.

And, hey, don't have to spare my feelings.  I don't fear information, just not asking the question and assuming the answer.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 28, 2019)

Minerva_Minx said:


> Thanks to both for clarifying.  Most of the time I find issue, it is a difference of opinion, and I am good with that.  In the case of gun control, differing terminology and definition.  Easily corrected.
> 
> However, I could not follow this thread as what I know seemed to clash with the arguments presented on both sides.  It seems like different hunting styles and techniques and philosophies.
> 
> ...


It's less about sparing feelings and more that you haven't been a dick about your opinions and positions.


----------



## MaetheDragon (Aug 28, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> There are ordinances/regulations on certain types of ammo being mandated for a given style of hunting.  Mostly in the usage of lead shot vs steel/alternate.
> I know of no 'Limitation' on any game I've hunted, regarding the cartridge(s) I choose.  I am totally aware that States and hunting areas have rules and stipulations for enjoying that pursuit.  I've no problem with this in most of the instances.
> Pause for a moment and rethink what you said.
> Bow hunting is still a very legal/considered 'Humane' manner of taking down the largest of game animals.
> ...



I was a little hesitant to enter this conversation, but I can confirm that @SSJ3Mewtwo is absolutely right. Regardless if it’s just skill required to make a firearm lethal, it is totally illegal in quite a few states. My state, for example, won’t even let people use rifles, period to hunt deer with. I can site the exact regulations that state this. You may have the skill, but if a game warden finds you, you’re absolutely in trouble. As for using the three types of weapons you can use, my state has regulations on what calibers or shotgun sizes/shot sizes you can use, and there’s only specific types of arrows you can use and a minimum draw weight on bows in order for it to be legal to hunt with a bow and arrow. I’ll site my source below.

www.mass.gov: Deer hunting regulations

I’m no expert on the ballistics testing behind these regulations, the fact of the matter is that it’s illegal! We’re not trying to tell you what does and doesn’t work, we’re just telling you how not to be fined or arrested for illegal activity. That’s all there is to it, fren.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 28, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> View attachment 69590
> Do you see that wound channel? Bullets put neat little holes through things with tearing due to cavitation. Arrows achieve similar decimation through cutting the everliving fuck out of whatever they hit. An arrowhead use on appropriate game can easily do the same job as a bullet, but requires a different skill set and closer range.
> 
> 
> ...



Again you try preaching to the choir.
You blew it with your false claim my 5.56 rounds travel 'Maybe' 1,000fps.  If you knew anything about what you were trolling you'd have caught that mistake before typing it.  My standard loads average 3,100fps, just for starters.

Don't try telling me what can't be done, when I've done it and done it repeatedly.
That is all.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 28, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> Again you try preaching to the choir.
> You blew it with your false claim my 5.56 rounds travel 'Maybe' 1,000fps.  If you knew anything about what you were trolling you'd have caught that mistake before typing it.  My standard loads average 3,100fps, just for starters.
> 
> Don't try telling me what can't be done, when I've done it and done it repeatedly.
> That is all.


You didn't read. I wrote METERS PER SECOND. For both the speed of the bullet and the qualification for hypervelocity.

To convert btw, your round would have to be traveling ~9842.52 fps to be traveling at hypervelocity.


----------



## Jarren (Aug 28, 2019)

Can you guys take your quarrel elsewhere before you get my thread locked?


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 28, 2019)

Jarren said:


> Can you guys take your quarrel elsewhere before you get my thread locked?


I'll drop it.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Aug 28, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> I know of no 'Limitation' on any game I've hunted, regarding the cartridge(s) I choose. I am totally aware that States and hunting areas have rules and stipulations for enjoying that pursuit. I've no problem with this in most of the instances.


Irrelevant.  Different regions have regulations on what ammunition, firearm, and cartridge types can be used for certain game.

Follow those laws, and don't encouage anyone to break them.  If you do so on this forum, you will receive an infraction for encouraging illegal activity.

I'll let slide the prior comments because they appear to be more discussion on ethics and the instances surrounding how those laws and regulations were drafted. 

But don't go over the line.  I would expect any licensed hunter to know of these requirements and abide by them.



Stag_In_Padding said:


> Stop trying to tell me what will or will not work. The skill-set of the Hunter matters as much as the type of weaponry/caliber-of-firearm they're wielding.



I'm not.  I'm reminding you of the law.



Stag_In_Padding said:


> If you're not sure you're going to hit and put down the animal you have in your sights?
> Don't squeeze the damn trigger.



And don't break the law.



Stag_In_Padding said:


> Gun Control is exactly being able to put your round where you want it to go.



No.  Gun control is the regulation of firearms and their sale by the government.  Putting your round where you intend for it to go is called 'marksmanship'.

Trying to redefine it is just an attempt to muddy the waters of the discussion, or at best being overly passionate.  Don't do that.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 29, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> I was a little hesitant to enter this conversation, but I can confirm that @SSJ3Mewtwo is absolutely right. Regardless if it’s just skill required to make a firearm lethal, it is totally illegal in quite a few states. My state, for example, won’t even let people use rifles, period to hunt deer with. I can site the exact regulations that state this. You may have the skill, but if a game warden finds you, you’re absolutely in trouble. As for using the three types of weapons you can use, my state has regulations on what calibers or shotgun sizes/shot sizes you can use, and there’s only specific types of arrows you can use and a minimum draw weight on bows in order for it to be legal to hunt with a bow and arrow. I’ll site my source below.
> 
> www.mass.gov: Deer hunting regulations
> 
> I’m no expert on the ballistics testing behind these regulations, the fact of the matter is that it’s illegal! We’re not trying to tell you what does and doesn’t work, we’re just telling you how not to be fined or arrested for illegal activity. That’s all there is to it, fren.



This took me all of maybe 60 seconds to find.  There are literally thousands of other similar sites with info., so don't take this single one as Gospel-

www.thefirearmsforum.com: Minimum legal calibers for big game hunting

Yes, States/Counties often have a shit load of rules and regulations.  They can be a royal pain the ass, and change more often than should be necessary.
I have air rifles that fire the .177/.22 caliber PBA pellets at a screaming 1,200fps.  I could take down a white/black/mule deer with these suckers (but wouldn't, because they do not have a fast follow-up shot I enjoy).  The other problem with them is they're not jacketed (ie no copper covering to strengthen the projectile enough to pierce bone/deep tissue.  They literally flatten out if you hit something hard.  (great for paper targets though!  and infestations of rodentia on my property).

I know my State's and Sheriff's Dept. Personnel, and usually meet with more than one of them each year.  The encounters I've had with Game Wardens have always gone well, even if they were ignorant about some issues they were trying to forward.  A lot of it IS 'Attitude'.  If you've got a laid-back manner and aren't behaving like a douchebag, you're at the worse going to get warning/citation.  They're not going to seize your weapon(s) and jail you unless you're a stinking poacher.

I wish they had a 'Poacher Season'.  I'd buy a dozen tags!  Maybe I should move to Africa and assist the game preserves?  Maybe get eaten by a lion.  That'd be a helluva way to go.

I'm not arguing with you/anyone.
I merely stated that I use a particular caliber and have for years w/o any issue.
Others seem to have taken that as an excuse to jump on the 'Bad!  Very bad!' band wagon, complete with figurative finger-waggling like a lecturing Nun?


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 29, 2019)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Irrelevant.  Different regions have regulations on what ammunition, firearm, and cartridge types can be used for certain game.
> 
> Follow those laws, and don't encouage anyone to break them.  If you do so on this forum, you will receive an infraction for encouraging illegal activity.
> 
> ...



*"Follow those laws, and don't encouage anyone to break them.  If you do so on this forum, you will receive an infraction for encouraging illegal activity."
*
I haven't 'Encouraged' anyone to do a g-damned thing.  Jesus H. Crisco...

I posted a link found that outlines the mandated calibers for given game through the States.  There's hundreds/thousands more out there for anyone with an interest to peruse.  Are they promoting illegal activities, simply because you/others here don't agree?

Take it up with the States, then.

I can't believe you actually went there.  I really shouldn't be surprised.  

I'm done with this.  Have a good life.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 30, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> You didn't read. I wrote METERS PER SECOND. For both the speed of the bullet and the qualification for hypervelocity.
> 
> To convert btw, your round would have to be traveling ~9842.52 fps to be traveling at hypervelocity.



I'm returning to comment to you this last time for these two reasons-
1) You're correct.  I did not catch your clarification of 'Meters-per-second'.  My mind doesn't think in those terms when discussing ballistics.  I apologize for not reading what you abbreviated more closely.

2) What is your definition of hyper-velocity then?  In every circle I've viewed/participated in, that means faster than the speed of sound.  Every cartridge I hunt with is hyper-velocity.  I only used shorties/sub-sonic in special circumstances. 
If you're referring to astronomical incidents?  No, I am not referring to a screaming meteor/comet.

I'll agree to disagree with you, though you seem to hold the 'Scientific Definition of that phrase.
In shooting parlance/circles, 'Faster than the speed of sound', equates to hyper-velocity.

That is all.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Aug 30, 2019)

US Army definition of hypervelocity, if I am tracking.  If that is correct, then for small arms it is projectile traveling at 5,000fps or greater.

If so, the standard 5.56NATO round is clocked at 3,250fps.  That's maximum powder.

The 7.62x54 is 2,715fps.  I've seen some hotter loads which may actually be slightly faster.  Projectile is heavier than 5.56.

7.62x39 is 2350-2375fps, depending on manufacturer.  These appear more regulated for US code.

So someone's math is off or the source used meters per second when it should have been feet per second which gave a weird number.  I would be shocked to find a hunter using a 5,000fps bullet.  it would have to look bloated in the casing to get enough black powder to get the projectile to that speed.  your rifle would be a cannon, for lack of better term.

Insomnia and energy transfer calculations somehow go together in my head.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 30, 2019)

Minerva_Minx said:


> US Army definition of hypervelocity, if I am tracking.  If that is correct, then for small arms it is projectile traveling at 5,000fps or greater.
> 
> If so, the standard 5.56NATO round is clocked at 3,250fps.  That's maximum powder.
> 
> ...



I believe my problem is?...
(don't even try, Misha.)
In modern parlance/nomenclature, amongst the gun-toting population?
We meld 'Hyper-sonic', with 'Hyper-velocity'.
I'll give you/Misha (and others), this-
Semantics aside?
You hit something with a projectile traveling at hyper-SONIC velocities, and sufficient mass (projectile weight)?
You're going to cause severe damage.

God's, wasn't this OP about 'Terrorism'?

Why aren't we discussing box cutters, fertilizer/diesel bombs, and pressure cookers?


----------



## ConorHyena (Aug 30, 2019)

Stag_In_Padding said:


> God's, wasn't this OP about 'Terrorism'?
> 
> Why aren't we discussing box cutters, fertilizer/diesel bombs, and pressure cookers?



Whilst I find it fitting that you refer to "Terrorism" in the "Firearm Owners in the Fandom" thread, I don't think anyone in here is planning to go hunting with a pressure cooker or a diesel bomb.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Aug 30, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> Whilst I find it fitting that you refer to "Terrorism" in the "Firearm Owners in the Fandom" thread, I don't think anyone in here is planning to go hunting with a pressure cooker or a diesel bomb.


Apologies.
Multiple windows, mistakes happen.
Moving-on.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Aug 31, 2019)

Hypersonic is generally mach 5 and higher, which is 1715 meters per second. Still almost double the velocity of the hottest 5.56 you can find.


----------



## Tapper (Aug 31, 2019)

Deer are successfully hunted with 5.56/.223, very few States allow it though.

Personally if you have to use that caliber, stick with heavier (65grain+) controlled expansion ammo designed for such purpose, and keep your shots under 150yrds.
Past 300 the 5.56/.223 is more or less a  glorified 22mag/hornet once it gets there, it loses it's energy fast.

Personally anything bigger then a yote you should be looking at 6mm (.243 6.5 Creed) as your minimum.


----------



## Stag_In_Padding (Sep 1, 2019)

Tapper said:


> Deer are successfully hunted with 5.56/.223, very few States allow it though.
> 
> Personally if you have to use that caliber, stick with heavier (65grain+) controlled expansion ammo designed for such purpose, and keep your shots under 150yrds.
> Past 300 the 5.56/.223 is more or less a  glorified 22mag/hornet once it gets there, it loses it's energy fast.
> ...


Careful now.  You're in danger of being threatened with punitive actions by one of this site's Mods, for typing such common sense!
I always chuckle and go right back to the comparison with bow hunting vs the 5.56 projectile.  Native American People(s) were dropping Elk, Moose, Bear (hell, everything they went after), using simple bows with a draw weight of MAYBE 60 lbs.
I'll pit my 5.56 properly placed against a Stone/Flint-knapped Point, any day of the century.


----------



## AppleButt (Sep 12, 2019)

Just bought myself a 9mm Sig Saur P938



 

I intend to use it for conceal carry purposes.  

Ready to break it in when I get the time.


----------



## Revolver_Thotcelot (Sep 12, 2019)

About to get my deceased grandpa’s old Winchester Model 54, chambered in .30-06.

He was the best guy I’ve ever known, and I’ll think of him each time I take it out to the range.


----------



## Jarren (Sep 13, 2019)

AppleButt said:


> Just bought myself a 9mm Sig Saur P938
> 
> View attachment 70820
> 
> ...


I've got one myself. Lovely little pocket pistol. I have a feeling you'll be quite happy with your purchase.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Sep 13, 2019)

My arms are on fire and I own them, if that counts


----------



## AppleButt (Sep 13, 2019)

Jarren said:


> I've got one myself. Lovely little pocket pistol. I have a feeling you'll be quite happy with your purchase.



This is the first gun I've ever bought.   I've shot Sigs before and always liked em so that's what I went with!


----------



## Glossolalia (Sep 13, 2019)

I've never seen a gun in person (aside from holstered guns on police officers, and airsoft guns). This thread is making me feel like a sheltered Canadian!


----------



## Foxosh (Sep 13, 2019)

AppleButt said:


> Just bought myself a 9mm Sig Saur P938
> 
> View attachment 70820
> 
> ...


Smol owo


----------



## Foxosh (Sep 13, 2019)

All my guns are long hunting guns


----------



## Telnac (Sep 14, 2019)

Foxosh said:


> All my guns are long hunting guns


Nothing wrong with that!


----------



## Izzy4895 (Sep 14, 2019)

My most recent firearm purchase is a CZ-75 SP-01 Tactical:







(Not my picture)

It’s definitely more ergonomic than any other handgun I have fired. It isn’t easy on the wallet, though, as it’s easy to fire hundreds of rounds through it in a single range session.


----------



## Ramjet (Oct 23, 2020)

I thought this could use a bump






Just set up a Cadex R7 Sheepdog in 6.5 CM
Atlas BT10 bipod
Vortex Viper PST gen 2 5-25×50 FFP MOA scope


----------



## Jarren (Oct 23, 2020)

Aha, the thread lives! I may have to share some of my new acquisitions soon.


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (Oct 23, 2020)

Knick-knack the banned boy is back. Quick, use your second amendment on those who dare oppose your return!


----------



## aomagrat (Oct 23, 2020)

Let me see...
I own...
Ruger P85 9mm
Ruger Mk II 22/45 .22LR
Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum
Ruger Speed Six .38 Special 
Ruger Single Six .32 H&R Magnum
Ruger Super Blackhawk. 44 Magnum
Colt Commander 1911A1 .45ACP
Colt 1911A1 .38 Super
Smith & Wesson 1911A1 .45ACP
Smith & Wesson Model 10 .38 Special
Remington Rand 1911A1 .45ACP
AMT Automag III .30 Carbine
Walther PPK .380ACP
Star Model A 9mm Largo
Glock 22 .40 S&W
Glock 32 .357 SIG
Winchester 94 30-30
Winchester 94 .44 Magnum
Winchester 94 .32 Special
Winchester 9422 .22 S, L & LR
Marlin 1895 45/70
Marlin 1894 .357 Magnum
Marlin 1892 .32RF
Marlin 25N .22LR
Marlin 62 .30 Carbine 
Marlin 336 .35 Remington 
Smith & Wesson MP15 5.56mm
PSA AR15 5.56mm
YHM AR15 7.62x39mm
Norinco AK-47 7.62x39mm
Springfield M1 Garand 30-06
Inland M1 Carbine .30 Carbine
Mossberg 500 12ga
Stevens SBS 12ga

And probable a few others I can't remember off the top of my head right now.


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (Oct 24, 2020)

You know what, y'all pussies have your guns. I'm coming at y'all with my Panzerkampfwagen!!!








Spoiler



As soon as I can get it started...


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Oct 24, 2020)

Mr. Fox said:


> Knick-knack the banned boy is back. Quick, use your second amendment on those who dare oppose your return!


Wouldn't put it past the person who said he'd shoot any cops that tried to take his guns.


----------



## Mike_Wolf (Oct 24, 2020)

I may or may not have a couple firearms.


----------



## TemetNosce88 (Oct 24, 2020)

I have a few. My favorite is my .308 Ruger Scout rifle. I also have a 9mm pistol and 5.56 rifle (not an AR type) that I can't get ammo for anymore but used to like shooting.

I didn't to with an AR platform because there's such a thing as too much choice in a market. It was like trying to build a PC- every single part had 30 different options for style or manufacturer and they all had conflicting reviews on quality, which made it seem like kind of a gamble no matter what I did. So I just went with a different pre-built rifle and avoided it entirely.


----------



## Mike_Wolf (Oct 24, 2020)

TemetNosce88 said:


> I have a few. My favorite is my .308 Ruger Scout rifle. I also have a 9mm pistol and 5.56 rifle (not an AR type) that I can't get ammo for anymore but used to like shooting.
> 
> I didn't to with an AR platform because there's such a thing as too much choice in a market. It was like trying to build a PC- every single part had 30 different options for style or manufacturer and they all had conflicting reviews on quality, which made it seem like kind of a gamble no matter what I did. So I just went with a different pre-built rifle and avoided it entirely.



You can't find 5.56 ammo? Dang, I'm almost swimming in it. Lol


----------



## TemetNosce88 (Oct 24, 2020)

Mike_Wolf said:


> You can't find 5.56 ammo? Dang, I'm almost swimming in it. Lol



I haven't seen 9mm or 5.56 on shelves since April, anywhere.  I have a supply on hand, but I don't want to shoot what I can't replace.

Swimming in .308, though, so that's nice at least.


----------



## Mike_Wolf (Oct 24, 2020)

Damn thats crazy. I'm in Texas an we got tons of 9mm, .223 and 5.56. .40 and.45 are running a little low though but you can find it. Prices are out-freakin-ragous tho.


----------



## Ramjet (Oct 24, 2020)

Mike_Wolf said:


> You can't find 5.56 ammo? Dang, I'm almost swimming in it. Lol



Same.

Don't know why people are suprised supply is low right now.


----------



## Ramjet (Oct 24, 2020)

Ovidia Dragoness said:


> Wouldn't put it past the person who said he'd shoot any cops that tried to take his guns.



A discussion on topics of laws surrounding firearms would digress into political talk, which unfortunately has been removed on the forums.

Your more then welcome to come on discord with me to discuss this, but considering you've raged quit almost every server you've been on, I don't imagine a constructive dialog could be had.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Oct 24, 2020)

Ramjet556 said:


> A discussion on topics of laws surrounding firearms would digress into political talk, which unfortunately has been removed on the forums.
> 
> Your more then welcome to come on discord with me to discuss this, but considering you've raged quit almost every server you been on, I don't imagine a constructive dialog could be had.


Nah. Didn't rage quit. Banned from servers would be more percise.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Oct 24, 2020)

Ramjet556 said:


> A discussion on topics of laws surrounding firearms would digress into political talk, which unfortunately has been removed on the forums.
> 
> Your more then welcome to come on discord with me to discuss this, but considering you've raged quit almost every server you been on, I don't imagine a constructive dialog could be had.


The only one I really "rage quit" was some server that had "former" alt-furs who started being transphobic. So yes I guess you could say that for that instance.


----------



## Mike_Wolf (Oct 24, 2020)

Ramjet556 said:


> Same.
> 
> Don't know why people are suprised supply is low right now.



Right?!
When shit goes sideways like it has lately people buy it up. Happens every time.


----------



## JuniperW (Oct 24, 2020)

Guns are illegal in my country, lol, so I can’t own one even if I wanted to. I honestly wouldn’t really have any use for one, either.


----------



## volkinaxe (Oct 24, 2020)

it may not be a gun but boy is it fun to use cobra r9 crossbow


----------



## Halligan322 (Oct 24, 2020)

I’ve got a boomy boi or two...

Spikes Tactical AR 
CZ Scorpion 9mm w/ SBT “Brace”
Ruger RPR .243 Win. w/ Vortex Diamondback 
Winchester 1894 cir. 1910
Glock 22 
Remington R-1 1911 

I used to have more but I actually scaled back a smidge.


----------



## Zenoth (Oct 26, 2020)

It lives again, nice. Sense my last posting from long ago a few new pew pews have been added. Picked up a Walther PPQ 9mm for my boyfriend. A M400 Tread (AR pistol) in 5.56 223 for myself. And he got a Ruger RPR in 308. We also picked up a old L1A2 Lee EnField.


----------



## Mike_Wolf (Oct 26, 2020)

Halligan322 said:


> I used to have more but I actually scaled back a smidge.



* hold put hand * 
Hand over your man card!
 Lol I only kid.


----------



## Zenoth (Oct 26, 2020)

The Tread is damn fun at the range


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 15, 2021)

Time for another bump with a new acquisition
















S&W model 29 6.5" .44 magnum

These don't make it up here very often...
Now if only I can find ammo for this beast:'D


----------



## Jarren (Jan 15, 2021)

Ooooh, very nice. 
I may be snagging a Remington Model 8 later this weekend. Been eyeing it for a while and the price is right. Just gotta do some more research first.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 15, 2021)

Jarren said:


> Ooooh, very nice.
> I may be snagging a Remington Model 8 later this weekend. Been eyeing it for a while and the price is right. Just gotta do some more research first.



A 110 year old semi!

What condition?


----------



## Jarren (Jan 15, 2021)

Ramjet556 said:


> A 110 year old semi!
> 
> What condition?


Damn good. A little finish wear, but otherwise nice. Has a sporting optic on it. Just need to find out if it's period appropriate or not.


----------



## Hogo (Jan 15, 2021)

Just a handy and trusted Glock-22 I had to learn how to use very well in a past career. Never had to use it on a person yet, thankfully.


----------



## the sleepiest kitty (Jan 15, 2021)

I don't own one, but my mom just bought  herself one after moving all the way to Arizona!


----------



## Sairn (Jan 15, 2021)

I have several (5 in total) - nothing fancy mind you but they are all equally fun to shoot in their own regard. (At a range of course )


----------



## Telnac (Jan 16, 2021)

sleepy kitty said:


> I don't own one, but my mom just bought  herself one after moving all the way to Arizona!


I bought my first gun when I lived in Arizona too. Just about everyone I knew there were gun owners. It's just part of the culture of the state. It's very different in California, even though it's right next door!

Beautiful gun @Ramjet556 !  One of these days I'll pick up a revolver too. But alas, I need to do other things with my money first.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 16, 2021)

I found ammo!
$74 for 60 rounds lol


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 16, 2021)

Ramjet556 said:


> I found ammo!
> $74 for 60 rounds lol


That's really fucking expensive.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 16, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> That's really fucking expensive.



.44 ain't cheap to shoot unfortunately


----------



## Zenoth (Jan 25, 2021)

Tuned her up a bit with some new parts, don't mind the open dust cover, it's open because she was just cleared for sake of taking a photo.  It's not a lefty the camera did some weird flipping, and rather than take a new photo I just flipped it so it's not upside down lol.


----------



## Zenoth (Jan 25, 2021)

That's damn smexy @Ramjet556


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 27, 2021)

Zenoth said:


> View attachment 100040
> Tuned her up a bit with some new parts, don't mind the open dust cover, it's open because she was just cleared for sake of taking a photo.  It's not a lefty the camera did some weird flipping, and rather than take a new photo I just flipped it so it's not upside down lol.



Nice AR, love the flip up magnifier.

Mines a safe queen for right now unfortunately.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 27, 2021)

What's your most hated gun in your inventory?

Mines this Turkish shorty 12G..





Really cool looking, but with a 12" barrel it's about as much fun to shoot as getting kicked in the dick with steel toes.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 28, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> What's your most hated gun in your inventory?
> 
> Mines this Turkish shorty 12G..
> 
> ...


Most hated gun? I have my least favorite gun but picking my most hated gun would be like picking my most hated favorite food. It's a bit of an oxymoron.

As for my least favorite gun, I'll have to say my 12 gauge shotgun as well. It's something that my father gave me but I don't really have a use for it since I have much better guns than that.  It's basically just taking up space in my gun safe.


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (Jan 28, 2021)

All this talk of freedom still makes my PP feel small. But here's my firearm.






Pew-pew bby!


----------



## TemetNosce88 (Jan 28, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> What's your most hated gun in your inventory?
> 
> Mines this Turkish shorty 12G..
> 
> Really cool looking, but with a 12" barrel it's about as much fun to shoot as getting kicked in the dick with steel toes.


Is it weird that the most hated gun I own is also my favorite? I guess it has more to do with the other two I own being 'just fine'.





I love shooting this, and it was my first firearm so it's special that way. It's easy to handle and operate, and I like that it has iron sights because I'm dumb that way. The downside is Ruger's proprietary mags are stupidly expensive, and with the short barrel for .308, it not only kicks kind of hard but startles everybody else at the range, to the point that a number of people didn't believe me that it was only .308 when they asked.


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 28, 2021)

TemetNosce88 said:


> Is it weird that the most hated gun I own is also my favorite? I guess it has more to do with the other two I own being 'just fine'.
> 
> View attachment 100295
> 
> I love shooting this, and it was my first firearm so it's special that way. It's easy to handle and operate, and I like that it has iron sights because I'm dumb that way. The downside is Ruger's proprietary mags are stupidly expensive, and with the short barrel for .308, it not only kicks kind of hard but startles everybody else at the range, to the point that a number of people didn't believe me that it was only .308 when they asked.



Apsolutly beautiful scout rifle there!

I think the Ruger M/77 gunsite scout uses AICS mags, so you should be gtg with using magpuls AICS, alot cheaper too.


----------



## Telnac (Jan 28, 2021)

TemetNosce88 said:


> Is it weird that the most hated gun I own is also my favorite? I guess it has more to do with the other two I own being 'just fine'.
> 
> View attachment 100295
> 
> I love shooting this, and it was my first firearm so it's special that way. It's easy to handle and operate, and I like that it has iron sights because I'm dumb that way. The downside is Ruger's proprietary mags are stupidly expensive, and with the short barrel for .308, it not only kicks kind of hard but startles everybody else at the range, to the point that a number of people didn't believe me that it was only .308 when they asked.


My Mosin-Nagant has similar issues with startling people at the range. It's 7.62x54r, which is close to the size and powder load of a .308 Winchester round and like your gun the 1944 Carbine model has a shortened barrel so it makes a hell of a bang and kicks like a mule when I'm at the range. The magazine is internal, though.  There are ways to modify it to take an external magazine but I don't see any reason to do that to what's essentially a family heirloom.

Because of its age and history I don't shoot it often but I love that gun. It's extremely accurate and the bolt action is butter smooth. Not bad for something that saw action in WWII!


----------



## Fallowfox (Jan 29, 2021)

Hello. I heard this was the thread for people with fiery arms. 

I have a permit to conceal them but I prefer to exercise my constitutional right to bare arms.  

My collection is pretty small compared to most of you, because I only have 2.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 29, 2021)

Telnac said:


> My Mosin-Nagant has similar issues with startling people at the range. It's 7.62x54r, which is close to the size and powder load of a .308 Winchester round and like your gun the 1944 Carbine model has a shortened barrel so it makes a hell of a bang and kicks like a mule when I'm at the range. The magazine is internal, though.  There are ways to modify it to take an external magazine but I don't see any reason to do that to what's essentially a family heirloom.
> 
> Because of its age and history I don't shoot it often but I love that gun. It's extremely accurate and the bolt action is butter smooth. Not bad for something that saw action in WWII!


When mule kicks is a form of measurement.


----------



## Pomorek (Jan 31, 2021)

If I was in America, I'd probably end up having a small collection of them. But I'm not, so it doesn't apply.

Managed to get a repeating airgun in "military layout" (as opposed to the most common "hunting rifle" style). Additionally tuned for accuracy. And I'm _*mostly*_ reliably taking down beer cans from 20 meters distance, standing position, no support, no magnification. Love red dot sights too.
Didn't get much training last year though, as the place I'm using as my range was overtaken by a cat family!


----------



## Ramjet (Jan 31, 2021)

Pomorek said:


> If I was in America, I'd probably end up having a small collection of them. But I'm not, so it doesn't apply.
> 
> Managed to get a repeating airgun in "military layout" (as opposed to the most common "hunting rifle" style). Additionally tuned for accuracy. And I'm _*mostly*_ reliably taking down beer cans from 20 meters distance, standing position, no support, no magnification. Love red dot sights too.
> Didn't get much training last year though, as the place I'm using as my range was overtaken by a cat family!



Nothing wrong with an air rifle!
They make great cheap practice, and some big bores are even powerful enough to take out big game.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 1, 2021)

Telnac said:


> My Mosin-Nagant has similar issues with startling people at the range. It's 7.62x54r, which is close to the size and powder load of a .308 Winchester round and like your gun the 1944 Carbine model has a shortened barrel so it makes a hell of a bang and kicks like a mule when I'm at the range. The magazine is internal, though.  There are ways to modify it to take an external magazine but I don't see any reason to do that to what's essentially a family heirloom.
> 
> Because of its age and history I don't shoot it often but I love that gun. It's extremely accurate and the bolt action is butter smooth. Not bad for something that saw action in WWII!


My Tigr classic, the one with the conventional wood stocks fires 7.62 X 54R and it seems to make a butt-tonne more noise than my M1 Garand in 7.62 X 63. I had it at the range last fall and one dOOd asked me to quit firing it so much. It was hurting his wimpy ears. Mind you, both rifles are gas-actuated but maybe the longer stroke of the Garand helps mitigate the racket a bit. Also, the Garand will kick you to death during a range day. Not so much for The Tigr.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 1, 2021)

So, I snagged a new thing ^.=.^





CZ PO 9, my first full size handgun. Everything else I've had has been a compact/subcompact. Can't wait to get some range time in with this, especially since I finally found a reliable source of 9mm in these trying times. 
The collection has grown notably since I started the thread, so I'll need to post an updated "family photo" soon XD


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 1, 2021)

Jarren said:


> So, I snagged a new thing ^.=.^
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nioce, CZ makes nice everything.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 1, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> Nioce, CZ makes nice everything.


Very much agreed. Never handled a CZ that I didn't like.


----------



## TemetNosce88 (Feb 1, 2021)

Jarren said:


> So, I snagged a new thing ^.=.^
> 
> 
> CZ PO 9, my first full size handgun. Everything else I've had has been a compact/subcompact. Can't wait to get some range time in with this, especially since I finally found a reliable source of 9mm in these trying times.
> The collection has grown notably since I started the thread, so I'll need to post an updated "family photo" soon XD


Ahh, another member of Chonky Pistol club! I have the Taurus clone of the Beretta M9.


----------



## Telnac (Feb 1, 2021)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> My Tigr classic, the one with the conventional wood stocks fires 7.62 X 54R and it seems to make a butt-tonne more noise than my M1 Garand in 7.62 X 63. I had it at the range last fall and one dOOd asked me to quit firing it so much. It was hurting his wimpy ears. Mind you, both rifles are gas-actuated but maybe the longer stroke of the Garand helps mitigate the racket a bit. Also, the Garand will kick you to death during a range day. Not so much for The Tigr.


Nice.  I have a VEPR in 7.62.54r that's pretty similar to a Tigr.  I love that gun!


----------



## Flamingo (Feb 1, 2021)

Fallowfox said:


> Hello. I heard this was the thread for people with fiery arms.
> 
> I have a permit to conceal them but I prefer to exercise my constitutional right to bare arms.
> 
> My collection is pretty small compared to most of you, because I only have 2.



This is fantastic.


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 2, 2021)

Flamingo said:


> This is fantastic.


Unfortunately...I have more. :}


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Feb 2, 2021)

I live in a place where it's incredibly difficult to obtain a firearm.

On the other hand there are no restrictions at all for airsoft guns - they can look as realistic as they want to, and they can go up to 2.6 J - at least that's the highest I've seen.

This colt-1911 replica is made from a full metal construction, and supports both green gas as well as CO2 - I should get the CO2 insert because having to bleed my current one is a pain in the ass.

If money allows it, I want to get a whole bunch of realistic looking replicas - there are AKs, M4s, P90s, Deagles, snipers... All the fun stuff.

If I could have a real pistol - I want a golden deagle because it looks cool.


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (Feb 2, 2021)

Fallowfox said:


> Hello. I heard this was the thread for people with fiery arms.
> 
> I have a permit to conceal them but I prefer to exercise my constitutional right to bare arms.
> 
> My collection is pretty small compared to most of you, because I only have 2.


This is my new meme.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 2, 2021)

Rimna said:


> If I could have a real pistol - I want a golden deagle because it looks cool.


I actually saw one for sale a few weeks back on a local shop. Gaudiest thing I've ever held XD


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 2, 2021)

Telnac said:


> Nice.  I have a VEPR in 7.62.54r that's pretty similar to a Tigr.  I love that gun!


Basically they're both SVD design under the hood. Sure wish our new POTUS would normalize relations with Russia. I'm jonesing for a new Ak-pattern rifle, something in 5.45 this time.


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Feb 2, 2021)

Jarren said:


> I actually saw one for sale a few weeks back on a local shop. Gaudiest thing I've ever held XD


Was it a fingerprint magnet? The idea of a golden deagle is ridiculous. It's already a ridiculous pistol even when it's just "normal".

And, are they really gold-plated, or is it just PVD coating / high polished brass?


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 2, 2021)

Rimna said:


> And, are they really gold-plated, or is it just PVD coating / high polished brass?



Titanium nitride PVD


----------



## Jarren (Feb 3, 2021)

Rimna said:


> Was it a fingerprint magnet? The idea of a golden deagle is ridiculous. It's already a ridiculous pistol even when it's just "normal".
> 
> And, are they really gold-plated, or is it just PVD coating / high polished brass?


Just a coating, and yeah, they pick up fingerprints life nobody's business.


----------



## Charleslr'93 (Feb 3, 2021)

Shotgun owner and fanatic.  Slavo12 on a mossberg,


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 4, 2021)

Charleslr'93 said:


> Shotgun owner and fanatic.  Slavo12 on a mossberg,



How much does it dampen the report?


----------



## A c e (Feb 4, 2021)

Eh, what you really want is the .45 acp, it kills the soul, and you gotta prevent your enemies from coming back as a lich


----------



## Jarren (Feb 6, 2021)

So, finally got around to taking that "family photo" I mentioned a little while back and, well..... things have grown significantly since my first post in this thread, to put it ever so lightly XD




If anyone's got questions as to what any of the stuff here is, I'd be happy to answer them! Also, somewhat related.... if ANYONE can find me a stock and handguard set for a Greek 1903 Mannlicher/Shonauer carbine (an 03/14 built on a 1930 MS System receiver if we're gonna be specific, and NOT one of the commercial rifles) I will pay handsomely for it! Previous owner of mine, for some reason, bubba'd the stock of a 1903 long rifle to fit the carbine. Looks nice, but if you know what you're looking for, you can tell what's wrong.


----------



## TemetNosce88 (Feb 15, 2021)

Do we have anyone who shoots black powder in here? I've been thinking of trying to get in to it for some time and was curious what peoples' experiences were. Also, flintlock vs percussion cap?


----------



## Yakamaru (Feb 15, 2021)

Jarren said:


> So, finally got around to taking that "family photo" I mentioned a little while back and, well..... things have grown significantly since my first post in this thread, to put it ever so lightly XD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aye. The user have no shotguns. 

_a ":3" appears on its visor_


----------



## aomagrat (Feb 15, 2021)

Here's a couple of my Colt 45's.


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Feb 15, 2021)

I got a MAS-36 I really want to take to the range, but ammo is almost impossible to find for it. I Think Partizan is the only manufacturer. Seriously, what else is chambered in *7.5×54mm French?*


----------



## Regret (Feb 15, 2021)

ManicTherapsid said:


> I got a MAS-36 I really want to take to the range, but ammo is almost impossible to find for it. I Think Partizan is the only manufacturer. Seriously, what else is chambered in *7.5×54mm French?*


MAS-49 

lol


----------



## Telnac (Feb 15, 2021)

TemetNosce88 said:


> Do we have anyone who shoots black powder in here? I've been thinking of trying to get in to it for some time and was curious what peoples' experiences were. Also, flintlock vs percussion cap?


I don't but I'd like to someday. I'd do percussion cap tho. Not hardcore enough to go flintlock!


----------



## Jarren (Feb 16, 2021)

ManicTherapsid said:


> I got a MAS-36 I really want to take to the range, but ammo is almost impossible to find for it. I Think Partizan is the only manufacturer. Seriously, what else is chambered in *7.5×54mm French?*


The MAS 44 and 49  and probably some machine guns. As a MAS 49 owner, I actually have a local supply of ammo for it XD just keep your eye out for surplus.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 16, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Aye. The user have no shotguns.
> 
> _a ":3" appears on its visor_


... I've got *one* ;p


----------



## Yakamaru (Feb 16, 2021)

Jarren said:


> ... I've got *one* ;p


And you call yourself an American?


----------



## Jarren (Feb 19, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> And you call yourself an American?


>.=.>
I may need to remedy things.... XD


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 21, 2021)

Julen said:


> This
> 
> This is beautiful


I own Papa's.  He carried it in 'Nam (I apologize.  I was thinking one conflict, and typed another.  That's on me.)
I told my three older brothers I would fight each of them for it, after Papa died (he left his Will a tad open about some things).
None of my brothers even tried to deny me this.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 21, 2021)

Telnac said:


> It's a post describing the law and describing how I'm in compliance with the law. You can't made a formerly legal activity illegal and then go after someone for doing something that was legal at the time. If that were the case we'd always be in legal jeopardy because something you do & post about today may be banned tomorrow.


It is a shame sites ban folks who have broken no law, because of a maligned/perceived criminal act others have done.
Then again, what's new in this day-and-age?
It's almost like the Socialists have won?


----------



## BronzeHeart92 (Mar 22, 2021)

Even if I was American, I wouldn't touch firearms at all. So, nope.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Mar 22, 2021)

AniwayasSong said:


> It is a shame sites ban folks who have broken no law, because of a maligned/perceived criminal act others have done.
> Then again, what's new in this day-and-age?
> It's almost like the Socialists have won?


Where did you get the impression that their post would get them banned?  They were talking about real life activity and law changes.


----------



## Telnac (Mar 22, 2021)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Where did you get the impression that their post would get them banned?  They were talking about real life activity and law changes.


It's not my post that I think they were ultimately replying to but this post in that discussion:


Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> That post both technically violates the CoC about breaking the law, and could be used against you in court my blue draconic friendo. Best delete it. Not faulting you, but giving advice.


And to set the record straight for @AniwayasSong : I wasn't banned or even warned for any of those posts. I was not in violation of the CoC or any law. If I had been in violation of the CoC I'm sure a mod would have set me straight.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 23, 2021)

Telnac said:


> It's not my post that I think they were ultimately replying to but this post in that discussion:
> 
> And to set the record straight for @AniwayasSong : I wasn't banned or even warned for any of those posts. I was not in violation of the CoC or any law. If I had been in violation of the CoC I'm sure a mod would have set me straight.


I do not need you to set the record straight for me.  I was not insinuating you got banned for anything.  The warning that what someones says, even if it doesn't actually violate any law, struck a cord in me so I posted.
I'm aware that private sites don't need a valid excuse to ban someone. Hell, not even public domains/'Social Platforms' hiding behind that wonderful '230' shield do either, but that hasn't stopped them.

That's just the way it works in this day and age.


----------



## Telnac (Mar 23, 2021)

AniwayasSong said:


> I do not need you to set the record straight for me.  I was not insinuating you got banned for anything.  The warning that what someones says, even if it doesn't actually violate any law, struck a cord in me so I posted.
> I'm aware that private sites don't need a valid excuse to ban someone. Hell, not even public domains/'Social Platforms' hiding behind that wonderful '230' shield do either, but that hasn't stopped them.
> 
> That's just the way it works in this day and age.


I meant no offense.  Based on your previous posting I wasn't sure you'd read the context behind what you were responding to originally.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 23, 2021)

Telnac said:


> I meant no offense.  Based on your previous posting I wasn't sure you'd read the context behind what you were responding to originally.


I read every page, and I only got madder as I went along.  I apologize.  I never should have posted anything.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 23, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> That's really fucking expensive.


Most of what I'm finding now is going for $2.00/round.  And that's for the usual calibers.  If you're shopping for anything unusual?
I've never seen it this bad, and I go back to the late 80's, with CA's first 'Assault Weapons' bullshit.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 23, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> Apsolutly beautiful scout rifle there!
> 
> I think the Ruger M/77 gunsite scout uses AICS mags, so you should be gtg with using magpuls AICS, alot cheaper too.


Just bought a Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creed.  Can't wait to get it and furniture/optics, then reach out to 1,000 yards and more with ease.
:-D


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 23, 2021)

Jarren said:


> So, finally got around to taking that "family photo" I mentioned a little while back and, well..... things have grown significantly since my first post in this thread, to put it ever so lightly XD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like you, and would be willing to have your puppies! (you obviously know how to protect your pack!)
;-P
(j/k, 'cause I can no longer haz puppies... Imma good snuggler though!)


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 24, 2021)

AniwayasSong said:


> Just bought a Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creed.  Can't wait to get it and furniture/optics, then reach out to 1,000 yards and more with ease.
> :-D


Nice, you'll like the cartridge.
.308 still serves it's purpose, but the 6.5 does it better.

I can highly regard the Atlas BT10 for a bipod!Little pricey, but you'll like the pan feature, makes the Harris look like a meme in comparison.
What are you looking at for optics Btw?


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 24, 2021)

My involvement and position in this fandom is um, questionable, but I own guns yes.


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 24, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> Oh wow, this thread is still going on?
> 
> How about that...



Yeah, post more


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 24, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> Yeah, post more



I've literally made a threat not knowing this one was even a thing, lol.


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 24, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> So I see the honeymoon is over between you and the .44 mag.
> Bummer.



I replaced it with something I'll actually keep.


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 24, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> I replaced it with something I'll actually keep.


Noice. 

You're just an American in disguise. Less maple syrup and more guns please. xD


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 24, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Less maple syrup and more guns please. xD



Why not both?








Too many damn projects on the go, this one's gonna be fun though.


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 25, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> Speaking of projects, you might remember that I'm a sucker for military AR clones, especially classic/retro ones with some historical significance, and one thing I always wanted was a clone of an M-16A2 like the troops carried in Desert Storm and Somalia.
> 
> Previously I had something about 90% close to this, using a complete 20" upper from Windham Weaponry with a detachable carry handle, but being the purist that I am, I was never totally satisfied with it just because of the detachable carry handle and flattop upper receiver. A real A2 has a fixed carry handle.
> 
> ...



Now that is just sexy!
1:12 twist?


----------



## AniwayasSong (Mar 26, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> Nice, you'll like the cartridge.
> .308 still serves it's purpose, but the 6.5 does it better.
> 
> I can highly regard the Atlas BT10 for a bipod!Little pricey, but you'll like the pan feature, makes the Harris look like a meme in comparison.
> What are you looking at for optics Btw?


Oh, I'm having a field day shopping/researching/talking to folks who know more'n me about such things!  I've seen a few of the Atlas mounts, and I agree with you:  they look damned fine and have some excellent features.
The only optic I use is a 'Vortex', and that is mounted to my Ruger MPR (for reaching out to 800 maybe 1,000 if I keep practicing!). The one I've got is their 'Strike Eagle' (5-25x56), and I luvluvluvluv it! I thought about buying another for the 'Precision', and I might just do that. Lots of folks at the range have optics, so as soon as the weather improves I'm going to be headed there to pester and learn more!
Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 26, 2021)

AniwayasSong said:


> Oh, I'm having a field day shopping/researching/talking to folks who know more'n me about such things!  I've seen a few of the Atlas mounts, and I agree with you:  they look damned fine and have some excellent features.
> The only optic I use is a 'Vortex', and that is mounted to my Ruger MPR (for reaching out to 800 maybe 1,000 if I keep practicing!). The one I've got is their 'Strike Eagle' (5-25x56), and I luvluvluvluv it! I thought about buying another for the 'Precision', and I might just do that. Lots of folks at the range have optics, so as soon as the weather improves I'm going to be headed there to pester and learn more!
> Thanks for the suggestion!



Can't go wrong with Vortex!
I got the Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50 on my 6.5, but the Strike Eagle is really nice though.I like the Eagle's locking turrets, beats having to worry about your zero if you so happen to bump your rifle in the field.Wish that feature was on the Viper.


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 26, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> No, the barrel is 1:7. The Vietnam era M-16 variants were the ones that had the 1:12 twist. 1:7 came about in the early '80s when NATO adopted the 62 grain SS109 round as their new standard rifle cartridge.



I can't believe the very first series was 1:14 lmao, what's that supposed to stabilize?A 20 grain sabot?xD


----------



## nerv (Mar 27, 2021)

I used to have a 30'06 but the bolt broke. Now I just have a .22. I was trying to get back into clay pigeon shooting during the lockdowns but I live in CA and there was an ammo shortage when the riots hit... and when the weather was good enough to go shooting... I also used to reload ammo. It was pretty relaxing.


----------



## Telnac (Mar 27, 2021)

nerv said:


> I used to have a 30'06 but the bolt broke. Now I just have a .22. I was trying to get back into clay pigeon shooting during the lockdowns but I live in CA and there was an ammo shortage when the riots hit... and when the weather was good enough to go shooting... I also used to reload ammo. It was pretty relaxing.


I'm getting into reloading to get around both the ammo shortage and the stupid ammo background check hidden tax thing that CA introduced recently.


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 27, 2021)

Now to go see if she can shoot


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 28, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> That gun looks like the perfect companion to your 10/22.


Dumped a good 400 rounds through her first outing, I've forgotten how much fun a rimfire pistol really is.
First handgun I've ever played with that's sported an optical site too, and now I want one for the 9mm xD


----------



## Netanye Dakabi (Mar 30, 2021)

I got one of those fancy limbless crossboys recently.

It's okay but the gas-powered autofire arrow launcher thing i already got from Panau is still better.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 2, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> I wish I could just dump 400 rounds of .22 lr like that. That's another one of the few things I envy about you guys in Canada right now, I've heard the ammo shortage down here hasn't really affected you that much. Here, you can't find .22 lr anywhere, or virtually anything else for that matter. I haven't seen a box of 9mm on the shelf at any of the stores here for several months.



It's starting to get bad up here too!
I've got over 15k .22lr though, and I never stop buying when I see it.
Actually just scored two more box's of 525 Federal to replace the 400 I zapped downrange


----------



## Rassah (Apr 2, 2021)

Dangit, I'm just finishing up my 3D printed Glock build and seems I won't be able to test it due to lack of ammo too. Sounds like pretty soon I'll just have to resort to 3D printing a ton of guns and just throwing them instead.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 2, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> I've got a fairly good stash myself, but I don't like digging into it unless I really, _really_ need to for some reason. I like to keep my reserve ammo separate from my shooting ammo so I'm not depleting my stocks.



Oh I hear yeah, that's why I make sure I can replace what I do shoot before I go out, hence why I haven't shot my 9mm for a while.
Got tons of it too, but I can't replace it right now.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Apr 3, 2021)

My brother has his AR ready, we're going to target practice with metal targets soon.


----------



## Rassah (Apr 4, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> I'm thinking that I might need to buy a 3D printer of my own some time soon. I'd like to be able to print AR lowers, but those don't seem to hold up very well and break after a few shots from what I've seen, unless someone has figured out way to make them stronger so they don't do that.


The one I have (U-bolt model) has held up to over 1000 rounds. Don't know how long it holds up because it has yet to break. There are a few others I'm testing, but they all last a long time.


----------



## Jarren (Apr 4, 2021)

Rassah said:


> The one I have (U-bolt model) has held up to over 1000 rounds. Don't know how long it holds up because it has yet to break. There are a few others I'm testing, but they all last a long time.


The print material also matters quite a bit too. A lot of the people who say "It's fragile" are using/thinking of the wrong print medium.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 5, 2021)

Yes


----------



## Telnac (Apr 5, 2021)

Ramjet said:


> Yes


I'll just pick one of those up with my next paycheck. 

(I wish!)


----------



## Deleted member 134556 (Apr 5, 2021)

Wow, all of you have some pretty cool examples! I don't have much to offer other than the 10mm I have, but still, It's awesome seeing so many well armed furs here in the fandom.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 5, 2021)

Went to the range with our Armalite/Colt 601 clones that are chambered in .22lr and blew through about a thousand rounds. Those rifles cease to amaze me. Not a single jam, fail to feed or stovepipe all day. The range d00d was amazed we were having a blast just ripping targets to shreds but ya know, it helps to keep familiar with the rifles you might use in a SHTF situation. I'm not convinced it will happen in what remains of my lifetime but it could for my daughters or grandchildren.

Finished the day with the Lynx 12 ga (new) and the Saiga 12 sporter. 1oz #6 over an undisclosed amount of Red Dot in a blue magic hull with cardboard wads. Se3veral rounds later, what targets? Still thinking about buying one more Lynx while the gummint says we can still buy them. I think the only drawback to them is the twenty round magazine is HEAVY once it's loaded. Makes the shotgun kinda awkward until it's half-empty.

Also contemplating another revolver, a BFR in .475 Linebaugh. I keep hearing these rumors of a 16" barreled 1894 pattern rifle in .475 Linebaugh. The pair would make a fine hunting duo.


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 9, 2021)

This is my coronavirus haul.  Paid for by the government.

Got into black powder over the last year and it's fucking awesome.  Do recommend.  Bought the two shotguns like two weeks ago for clay shooting.  Range near me has a thrower.  Gonna invite the boys out next weekend for a grand ol' time.


----------



## Netanye Dakabi (Apr 13, 2021)

jffry890 said:


> This is my coronavirus haul.  Paid for by the government.
> 
> Got into black powder over the last year and it's fucking awesome.  Do recommend.  Bought the two shotguns like two weeks ago for clay shooting.  Range near me has a thrower.  Gonna invite the boys out next weekend for a grand ol' time.
> 
> View attachment 107082


aw gawd!

flintlocks are so damn sexy.


----------



## jffry890 (Apr 13, 2021)

NetanDakabi said:


> aw gawd!
> 
> flintlocks are so damn sexy.


They're percussion, not flintlock.  Note the hammer and nipple vs a flint and steel.  I'm just not comfortable with a flash pan going off right next to my face.  They're also rifled and not smoothbore.  Might get some minnie balls for the rifle.

Fun fact:  That muzzleloader pistol is my new home defense gun because if I get to kill a motherfucker with a .50 caliber slug from a fucking pirate(ish) gun, I'm gonna laugh my fucking ass off all the way to prison.  The .357 I was using before is still there, by the way.  That's the second line of defense.


----------



## Netanye Dakabi (Apr 14, 2021)

pneumatic SMG's are weird.

they got low recoil and high penetration.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Apr 19, 2021)

I own a firearm but it's likely not fired anything in a few centuries


----------



## Jarren (May 7, 2021)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I own a firearm but it's likely not fired anything in a few centuries


Old musket, I'm assuming? Did some work for a guy who had an old, Tower Armory brown Bess. It was in terrible condition, but was still a cool relic to see.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (May 7, 2021)

Jarren said:


> Old musket, I'm assuming? Did some work for a guy who had an old, Tower Armory brown Bess. It was in terrible condition, but was still a cool relic to see.


A navy pistol from the late 18th century, also in poor condition


----------



## Jarren (May 7, 2021)

Frank Gulotta said:


> A navy pistol from the late 18th century, also in poor condition
> View attachment 109356


Hey, at least the brass is still in good shape!


----------



## Frank Gulotta (May 8, 2021)

Shane McNair said:


> That thing is cool af. I'm getting some major Pirates of the Caribbean vibes. If only it could talk, it might have quite a story to tell.


Haha, who knows


----------



## Yakamaru (May 8, 2021)

Frank Gulotta said:


> A navy pistol from the late 18th century, also in poor condition
> View attachment 109356


Okay, now that is just awesome.


----------



## Rimna (Jun 10, 2021)

Airsoft replicas is as close as I can get to a firearm. At least they're beautifully made.















It even has bullet decorations... the p90 weighs almost 5 lbs. The pistol is full metal constructions so quite heavy too - about 2.5 lbs


----------



## Jarren (Jun 10, 2021)

Rimna said:


> Airsoft replicas is as close as I can get to a firearm. At least they're beautifully made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ngl, the airsoft P90 and the real thing probably have just about as much plastic as each other XD
Those do both look mighty nice.


----------



## JacobFloofWoof (Aug 12, 2021)

Did anyone ever hold or own a Barrett M82/M107? Those seem pretty cool.


----------



## davydonovan (Aug 12, 2021)

I own an Armalite AR50,


----------



## Flamingo (Aug 12, 2021)

Hi-FiWolf95 said:


> Did anyone ever hold or own a Barrett M82/M107? Those seem pretty cool.



They're okay.


----------



## O.D.D. (Aug 12, 2021)

Flamingo said:


> They're okay.


I think they require a Destructive Device stamp because of their caliber and they're pretty impractical/expensive


----------



## FlooferWoofer (Aug 12, 2021)

I've got two friends named Smith and Wesson, and they always fight with me. M & P Shield. Not too absurdly powerful for a lady to handle, easily conceals in a purse, and will still get the job done as well as anything bigger if you aim center mass. This model EXACTLY:


----------



## davydonovan (Aug 12, 2021)

O.D.D. said:


> I think they require a Destructive Device stamp because of their caliber and they're pretty impractical/expensive


Not that I'm aware of or at least not in my state. The Armalite AR50 is a .50 BMG and you can order API, SLAP, tracers, ect rounds through the mail.


----------



## davydonovan (Aug 12, 2021)

O.D.D. said:


> I think they require a Destructive Device stamp because of their caliber and they're pretty impractical/expensive


I know that some firearms for example "The Street Wiper" require a Destructive Device stamp due to the NFA requirements.


----------



## Regret (Aug 13, 2021)

Hi-FiWolf95 said:


> Did anyone ever hold or own a Barrett M82/M107? Those seem pretty cool.



Sure, family member has one and I have fired some rounds downrange. Ultimately, I felt it was more of novelty than anything and I can't justify the annoyance of finding a good shooting spot along with price of feeding them to justify it. I just don't find 50 and up caliber rifles to be that fun to shoot, but if you want one for whatever reason, have at it.


----------



## JacobFloofWoof (Aug 13, 2021)

Regret said:


> Sure, family member has one and I have fired some rounds downrange. Ultimately, I felt it was more of novelty than anything and I can't justify the annoyance of finding a good shooting spot along with price of feeding them to justify it. I just don't find 50 and up caliber rifles to be that fun to shoot, but if you want one for whatever reason, have at it.


I think it's neat, and yes def the novelty thing. I love how the look of how the barrel retracts when it's fired.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Aug 14, 2021)

My dad owns a bunch guns. The most prominent one is the Saiga in 7.62x39. Though when I get my own place I'm looking forward to getting a .308 Desert Tech MDR. In my opinion, the .223 is starting to become obsolete as possible attackers could have body armor nowadays. While the bullet doesn't have to penetrate, it just needs to have enough energy to cause trauma from the shock released on impact.


----------



## O.D.D. (Aug 14, 2021)

Uh 5.56x45 will blow right through anything but plates.  Your average Kevlar vest will be hard-pressed to stop them.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Aug 14, 2021)

O.D.D. said:


> Uh 5.56x45 will blow right through anything but plates.  Your average Kevlar vest will be hard-pressed to stop them.


The plates, that's what I'm concerned about, and it's the main reason why the Army is switching back to full-power cartridges. Plus I may be based but I find battle rifles cool.


----------



## O.D.D. (Aug 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> The plates, that's what I'm concerned about, and it's the main reason why the Army is switching back to full-power cartridges. Plus I may be based but I find battle rifles cool.


They're cool until you have to carry one and enough ammo to keep it fed.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Aug 14, 2021)

O.D.D. said:


> They're cool until you have to carry one and enough ammo to keep it fed.


Unless you're referring to older models, with advances in materials technology they can be carried rather comfortably.


----------



## O.D.D. (Aug 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Unless you're referring to older models, with advances in materials technology they can be carried rather comfortably.


If you've found a way to make a standard complement of 7.62x51 weigh as little as a standard complement of 5.56x45 the MIC would love to have you aboard I'm sure, never mind keeping recoil on 7.62 as low as that of 5.56, that's some straight up magic right there

also decrease the weight of the gun and you'll make that 7.62 HARDER to handle, not easier


----------



## Parabellum3 (Aug 14, 2021)

O.D.D. said:


> If you've found a way to make a standard complement of 7.62x51 weigh as little as a standard complement of 5.56x45 the MIC would love to have you aboard I'm sure, never mind keeping recoil on 7.62 as low as that of 5.56, that's some straight up magic right there
> 
> also decrease the weight of the gun and you'll make that 7.62 HARDER to handle, not easier


There's this: https://www.tvammo.com/


----------



## O.D.D. (Aug 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> There's this: https://www.tvammo.com/


if we're talking your personal use, knock yourself out

military acquisitions will never touch this


----------



## Parabellum3 (Aug 14, 2021)

O.D.D. said:


> if we're talking your personal use, knock yourself out
> 
> military acquisitions will never touch this


We’ll see.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 16, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> There's this: https://www.tvammo.com/


I've fired some True Velocity .50 BMG in my McMillan TAC50 A-1, the older style one that looks more like a hunting rifle. That ammo is utter crap. Poor feeding from my box magazines, all four of them, rim ripped off more than a few rounds on extraction. Even had the audacity to leave behind the neck of one round in the chamber, forcing a one hour fight to get it out of the rifle. Accuracy was probably the worst of any factory-loaded ammo that has ever been through my rifle. I was not impressed, especially after dealing with trying to get the ammo, then spending over $220 USD(!) for just forty rounds. I can usually get Lake City 660gr FMJ for just a bit over $3 per round. I'll probably pull the bullets on the remaining TVA stuff and dump the powder, since I have no idea what they use to load with. Dump the empties in a bucket of motor oil to kill the primers, then pitch the casings.


----------



## O.D.D. (Aug 16, 2021)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I've fired some True Velocity .50 BMG in my McMillan TAC50 A-1, the older style one that looks more like a hunting rifle. That ammo is utter crap. Poor feeding from my box magazines, all four of them, rim ripped off more than a few rounds on extraction. Even had the audacity to leave behind the neck of one round in the chamber, forcing a one hour fight to get it out of the rifle. Accuracy was probably the worst of any factory-loaded ammo that has ever been through my rifle. I was not impressed, especially after dealing with trying to get the ammo, then spending over $220 USD(!) for just forty rounds. I can usually get Lake City 660gr FMJ for just a bit over $3 per round. I'll probably pull the bullets on the remaining TVA stuff and dump the powder, since I have no idea what they use to load with. Dump the empties in a bucket of motor oil to kill the primers, then pitch the casings.


there's a number of damned good reasons most ammo still uses brass casings, and a 30 percent weight savings that trades away a number of the benefits of brass at a cost premium is a bad deal

a lot of people don't realize one of the biggest reasons caseless will never take off in the military is not just because caseless is expensive, unproven tech - caseless ammo firing weapons have SERIOUS issues with heat, the brass carries a lot of heat away from the chamber as it's ejected

armorers would tell you to pound sand and likely resign if you tried ramming through a caseless-using rifle as an infantry weapon via administrative fiat


----------



## 010120qwerty (Sep 27, 2021)

I'm tryna add one of each "category?" to my collection. Got my 9mm, a 12ga, and a .22 plinking rifle. Need to add an AR and maybe a bow/arrow...


----------



## Jarren (Sep 29, 2021)

010120qwerty said:


> I'm tryna add one of each "category?" to my collection. Got my 9mm, a 12ga, and a .22 plinking rifle. Need to add an AR and maybe a bow/arrow...


Can't forget black powder! ;P


----------



## KimberVaile (Feb 10, 2022)

Revolvers are tons of fun to shoot, especially single actions. I'm definitely more an enthusiast when it comes to shooting of course. That said, revolvers, especially single actions are quite enjoyable to fire. It's a more involved process, pulling the trigger back then firing, helps encourage careful aiming. And reloading it is pretty fun. Practically, I'll probably find a semi automatic pistol for self defense, but a good Rueger, Smith and Wesson or a good me (Kimber) would be what I use to shoot for fun with. The historian in me would love to get my hands on an authentic Colt Single Action Army. I'd love chance to fire a nice .45 Colt Single action army, it's a beautiful gun. Something that revolvers will always have over semi autos. You can get some pretty powerful caliber rounds in a revolver.


----------



## Yakamaru (Feb 10, 2022)

.50 BMG handgun anyone? Tune in at 5 for more whack ideas!


----------



## Regret (Feb 10, 2022)

If we are talking about powerful firearms that have a fun action, a powerful round, and is historical.  I'd have to go with a 1873 or 1884 trapdoor.  Not the most practical but so much fun to shoot.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> Did anyone ever hold or own a Barrett M82/M107? Those seem pretty cool.


For those who have the body mass to handle that rifle?
Congrats.
I fired one.
Once.
That's enough for me.  Also, the main reason I choose the 6.5 Creed for my RPR, over any of the higher calibers.  (I happen to love my shoulder being intact)

:-D


----------



## JacobFloofWoof (Feb 10, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> For those who have the body mass to handle that rifle?
> Congrats.
> I fired one.
> Once.
> ...


I heard it can make your nosebleed from the shockwave.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> .50 BMG handgun anyone? Tune in at 5 for more whack ideas!


I have also fired the Desert Eagle in .50bmg.
Once.
After retrieving this semi-automatic cannon from roughly fifteen feet BEHIND ME?
I'm done.
I'll stick to my venerable Ruger SuperRedHawk in .44 Magnum, which I can only fire single action ('cause, mah short phalanges won't LET ME CYCLE this monster double-action!), simply 'cause I can nail anything I can see out to 100 yards, accurately.
I prefer hitting what I want to perforate, over sheer cannonades, any day!
(I'm weird that way)

I need moar ketchup.

an' another bib.

;-)


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> I heard it can make your nosebleed from the shockwave.


Not mine.
Anyone standing/sitting/laying off to the side(s) however?

Yeah.


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 10, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> For those who have the body mass to handle that rifle?
> Congrats.
> I fired one.
> Once.
> ...



6.5 Creed really is a pussy cat of a round, especially in a heavier bench type rifle.


----------



## Xitheon (Feb 10, 2022)

I don't like guns irl, but I love video game guns.

I like the AK-47 in Left 4 Dead 2.






And the Overwatch Standard Issue Pulse Rifle in Half-life 2





It sucks but I love it.

(Guns suck, don't shoot people please.)


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Feb 10, 2022)

Don't have any photos saved on my computer but I've got a few. A very nice .22 rifle, a custom AR build (lightweight and very pretty with a mix of sandy tan and black parts), a Glock 23 converted to 9mm (matches the AR), a battered Krag–Jørgensen Rifle that was used in the Spanish-American war, and a Winchester model 94 that has been passed down through my family. My great-great grandmother used that Model 94 to kill her first deer while out hunting


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

Xitheon said:


> I don't like guns irl, but I love video game guns.
> 
> I like the AK-47 in Left 4 Dead 2.
> 
> ...


Firearms don't hurt/murder innocent people.
Bad/Ignorant/Stupid/Homicidal people, do.


----------



## Xitheon (Feb 10, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Firearms don't hurt/murder innocent people.
> Bad/Ignorant/Stupid/Homicidal people, do.


I'm not going to argue.

I like video game guns but I hate real guns. End of story, please?


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

Xitheon said:


> I'm not going to argue.
> 
> I like video game guns but I hate real guns. End of story, please?


I respect anyone's personal choice to bear/not bear, 'Arms.'


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Feb 10, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> I respect anyone's personal choice to bear/not bear, 'Arms.'


You could say they're...     'armless
*audience booing*


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> You could say they're...     'armless
> *audience booing*


*PUMMELS* you with a hefty down-feathered pillow!


----------



## Xitheon (Feb 10, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> I respect anyone's personal choice to bear/not bear, 'Arms.'



(FYI, I live in Britain so I can't even carry pepper spray.)


----------



## JacobFloofWoof (Feb 10, 2022)

Xitheon said:


> (FYI, I live in Britain so I can't even carry pepper spray.)


What can you own in the UK for self-defense?


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> What can you own in the UK for self-defense?


I think axes and crossbows are legal lol


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

Xitheon said:


> (FYI, I live in Britain so I can't even carry pepper spray.)


:: Opens 'Closet-of-Arms', and reveals broad selection of staves, mauls, daggers/dirks/swords/rapiers/bows/flails, and a fairly stout quantity of caltrops, neatly packaged in sacks of 50 count... ::
Just don't ask me to delve into my chemical weapons stash!  (That, would get me so *DISAPPEARED* from existence...)


----------



## Rimna (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> What can you own in the UK for self-defense?



Cyrillic writing scares uk people >:3
Just show them  ЯвертъщюьЙьБЖФлДГ and they'll run off

Just kidding I have no idea


----------



## Xitheon (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> What can you own in the UK for self-defense?


We fart at each other.


----------



## JacobFloofWoof (Feb 10, 2022)

Are butter knives legal to carry in the UK?


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> Are butter knives legal to carry in the UK?


Narwhal horns for the win!


----------



## Ramjet (Feb 10, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> Are butter knives legal to carry in the UK?



Only with a liocense mate.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 10, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> I have also fired the Desert Eagle in .50bmg.
> Once.
> After retrieving this semi-automatic cannon from roughly fifteen feet BEHIND ME?
> I'm done.
> ...


Thad D-Eagle was probably chambered in .50 Action Express, a round made for the Desert Eagle. A .50 BMG round would blow up that barrel and frame. I have a Redhawk (not Super Redhawk) that was converted by Hamilton Bowen Firearms to .475 Linebaugh. Enough grunt to split the palm of my favorite shooting glove. Everyone only shoots 'just' one round before they just lay it back down.


----------



## Yakamaru (Feb 10, 2022)

Right to bear arms. So, my arms are now bear?


----------



## Punji (Feb 10, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Right to bear arms. So, my arms are now bear?


Bare arms OwO


----------



## Yakamaru (Feb 10, 2022)

Punji said:


> Bare arms OwO


*bear noises*


----------



## Xitheon (Feb 11, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> *bear noises*







I found this lol.


----------



## Raever (Feb 11, 2022)

I used to have a gun for protection purposes (*context: I've had my house broken into before) but I don't have it anymore since it was actually an SO's at the time. He just gave it to me to help me during that more intense moment of life. I've debated on getting another but I haven't felt the need to have one since I've been in much safer areas since then. If I wind up living in a more dangerous area I'll invest in one. For now, my taser does just fine in most scenarios. No one likes the sound of *Kchtszzzzttkghgzzzt* when approaching a target. Scares most right in the other direction, lol.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Feb 11, 2022)

Real men have a home defense trebuchet


----------



## Hoodwinks (Feb 11, 2022)

I've shot more kinds of rifles than I care to remember at shooting ranges. I would never own a gun, personally, though.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Feb 11, 2022)

Hoodwinks said:


> I've shot more kinds of rifles than I care to remember at shooting ranges. I would never own a gun, personally, though.


Shot a Mosin-Nagant?
That's a fun one lol


----------



## Hoodwinks (Feb 11, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Shot a Mosin-Nagant?
> That's a fun one lol


Dude I haven't the foggiest. I remember one of them was called a Dolphin, the rest is a blur. I'm not really a gun person XD


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Feb 11, 2022)

Hoodwinks said:


> Dude I haven't the foggiest. I remember one of them was called a Dolphin, the rest is a blur. I'm not really a gun person XD


Russian bolt action rifle that was used in WW1, and it k i c k s lol. Fun to shoot but you'll be very sore

Now if I could only get my hands on a toggle lock rifle... those are cool but very rare to find. Gonna get myself a Luger soon though, so at least I'll have a pistol of that type


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 12, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Russian bolt action rifle that was used in WW1, and it k i c k s lol. Fun to shoot but you'll be very sore
> 
> Now if I could only get my hands on a toggle lock rifle... those are cool but very rare to find. Gonna get myself a Luger soon though, so at least I'll have a pistol of that type


Want to really get kicked by a firearm? I have a McMillan .50bmg bolt action repeating rifle - looks like a big Remington hunting rifle. With the big tank-style blast deflector, about fifteen to twenty rounds will bruise your shoulder up real good. If I put the small blast deflector on it, about three rounds is anyone's limit. Each trigger pull is about $2.50 to $4.50 USD per round if I buy new ammo. I can reload for about $2.00 sometimes if I luck out on powder and primers on sale. The constant in that equation is the bullet, 630 gr. solid bronze boat tail spire point. those are $0.90 USD if I buy a thousand of them at once. Not cheap. I don't fire it much, no place close by in the Midwest to shoot it.


----------



## Jarren (Feb 12, 2022)

Actually gonna be getting in some "gunpowder therapy" today for the first time in a long while. Just got a CZ scorpion recently and I'll be putting first rounds through it today.
Happy shooting to anyone what getting some range time soon ^.=.^


----------



## AniwayasSong (Feb 26, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Thad D-Eagle was probably chambered in .50 Action Express, a round made for the Desert Eagle. A .50 BMG round would blow up that barrel and frame. I have a Redhawk (not Super Redhawk) that was converted by Hamilton Bowen Firearms to .475 Linebaugh. Enough grunt to split the palm of my favorite shooting glove. Everyone only shoots 'just' one round before they just lay it back down.


Yes, thank you for the correction!  (it's been a long time since I abused my poor wrist(s) firing that beast!)
It was the AE caliber.
I have also fired the Barret in .50 BMG, which is why/how I probably got that chambering a tad skewed?


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Feb 26, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Yes, thank you for the correction!  (it's been a long time since I abused my poor wrist(s) firing that beast!)
> It was the AE caliber.
> I have also fired the Barret in .50 BMG, which is why/how I probably got that chambering a tad skewed?


The Barrett is a pussycat compared to my McMillan. The Barrett M82/M107 semi-auto action soaks up a lot of the grunt (big springs) whereas my bolt action McMillan relies on the muzzle brake and your shoulder to do the same. The Cali-friendly .416 Barrett chambering (necked down .50 BMG) actually has less perceived recoil, even though it has more down-range ballistic energy. I returned my McMillan back to .50 so I now have a .416 Barrett chambered barrel as a spare. LOL.


----------



## AlexTheMule99 (May 22, 2022)

I have several antique American Civil War era musket rifles, and WW1 British revolvers. All still work.


----------



## Jarren (May 22, 2022)

AlexTheMule99 said:


> I have several antique American Civil War era musket rifles, and WW1 British revolvers. All still work.


ngl, that's mighty impressive for the muskets!


----------



## AlexTheMule99 (May 22, 2022)

Jarren said:


> ngl, that's mighty impressive for the muskets!


Thanks. They aren't rare actually. Most antique malls, certain antique shops, and pawn shops usually have some. And because of their age they don't need to be registered.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (May 22, 2022)

AlexTheMule99 said:


> Thanks. They aren't rare actually. Most antique malls, certain antique shops, and pawn shops usually have some. And because of their age they don't need to be registered.


On old guns, one day I want to get my hands on a Spencer Repeating Rifle. I love the action and unique magazine on that


----------



## AlexTheMule99 (May 22, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> On old guns, one day I want to get my hands on a Spencer Repeating Rifle. I love the action and unique magazine on that


My friend in Florida owns 2 of those. One for display (because it doesn't fire anymore as it's missing the trigger) and the other for shooting barbie dolls at the range. LOL


----------



## NutmegsBigAdventure (May 24, 2022)

Always love to expand my collection, so far it's mostly budget options but i love them all! So far in my locker I have a M1 Garand, 1860 Richards Transition .38, Mossberg Maverick Security, Hi point Carbine .45, Rock island M14Y, and a Heritage Rough Rider. I absolutely love taking all of my friends out to shoot too, especially those who are new to firearms, teaching people about the fun and safety of it all is so much fun to me


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 25, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Shot a Mosin-Nagant?
> That's a fun one lol


I remember back in the last century, around 1985 or so, a gun shop had literal "Barrels" full of "_Vintovka Mosina_" 1891 Mosin-Nagants in various conditions, from real decent (8 out of 10) all the way to WTF?!? (1 out of 10) condition. The best ones were $90 USD. I found a very nice one with bayonet for that price, I still shoot it from time to time. I had another one that I sporterized for my brother. It was always a good shooter. The 7.62 X 54R ammunition for it is slowly drying up as we speak, unfortunately. That's a bad thing because I have Dragunov, Tigr and Vepr rifles that all feed that round. Can't have fun at the range if you don't have go-pop goodies to go with the bang sticks.

Just make sure you have your booger hook off the bang switch!


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (May 26, 2022)

Nothing yet. Still waiting for my license approval.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 26, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Nothing yet. Still waiting for my license approval.


Sorry to hear that. Back when I still lived in California, a sheriff there decided to buck the trend and approve ALL carry permits sent his way. I remember the scramble by the State DOJ to overturn the carry permits and at one point it grew to a three ring circus. Permits were rescinded in the end.

As a former LEO, I still had my permit that the new county sheriff tried to revoke. I had my former Chief call him and explain it as rescind ANY former LEO carry permits from my department, don't expect reciprocal assist at any point past that date he had chose to have us turn in our permits. It was not only mine, but maybe one hundred other permits. Yeah, still have mine, even though I don't live in California anymore.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (May 28, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Sorry to hear that. Back when I still lived in California, a sheriff there decided to buck the trend and approve ALL carry permits sent his way. I remember the scramble by the State DOJ to overturn the carry permits and at one point it grew to a three ring circus. Permits were rescinded in the end.
> 
> As a former LEO, I still had my permit that the new county sheriff tried to revoke. I had my former Chief call him and explain it as rescind ANY former LEO carry permits from my department, don't expect reciprocal assist at any point past that date he had chose to have us turn in our permits. It was not only mine, but maybe one hundred other permits. Yeah, still have mine, even though I don't live in California anymore.


NBD, the next round of approvals starts tomorrow, and is for applications submitted during the time I put mine in.


----------



## Jarren (May 29, 2022)

Fingers crossed you get yours back quickly and without issues.


----------



## Fallowfox (May 29, 2022)

JacobFloofWoof said:


> Are butter knives legal to carry in the UK?


My neighbour has a licensed shotgun. 

To be honest not really sure he should have it, given he tried to trick a doctor into endorsing his license the first time. 
He presented the form to the GP without telling them what it was for.



The_Happiest_Husky said:


> I think axes and crossbows are legal lol



Laws vary across the UK. Typically weapons licenses can be granted by local police for sports or hunting pursuits- such as a shotgun to shoot clay pigeons. 
This process is under review after police in Plymouth approved a license for a man who had been accused of assault, who went on to murder 5 people. 

In Northern Ireland it is legal to have a licensed handgun for self-protection. 
Northern Ireland has a whole collection of unique systems of law within the United Kingdom, as a result of a peace accord that was signed to end 30 years of sectarian paramilitary warfare.


----------



## Vulpus_vulpes (May 31, 2022)

Xitheon said:


> I found this lol.





Spoiler: Just big image of bear holding gun








lol I made something like this after seeing this meme <3 (cannot join conversation but I love guns)


----------



## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

I bought a Turkish handgun and I have to say they make some good shit sometimes


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I bought a Turkish handgun and I have to say they make some good shit sometimes


Kope, I'm worried, given that you're quite open on the forum about having suicidal thoughts.
Are you fully aware of the risk to yourself this represents? 

If you are absolutely set on owning a weapon, please make sure it is stored in a locked safe and that the key is in a different part of the house to the safe.


----------



## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Kope, I'm worried, given that you're quite open on the forum about having suicidal thoughts.
> Are you fully aware of the risk to yourself this represents?
> 
> If you are absolutely set on owning a weapon, please make sure it is stored in a locked safe and that the key is in a different part of the house to the safe.


I’m fine I don’t have to will to do it


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I’m fine I don’t have to will to do it


Are you willing to store the weapon in a safe as a precaution? 

If I had a weapon I'd do that even if I felt in a good state of emotional health.


----------



## Flamingo (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I bought a Turkish handgun and I have to say they make some good shit sometimes


What'da buy?


----------



## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

ok,i gotta ask because it's been bugging me ever since i found out that wendigoon was into them: why guns? like,i'm not trying to sound judgy or anything: i am honestly curious (as a canadian who's not really ALLOWED to have a gun collection in the first place because our gun laws are quite different here) what exactly the appeal is. is it because they are dangerous and that makes them cool? is it because they just look nice? is it because it's fun to shoot stuff? i really can't understand the appeal of them so someone help a canadian out.>_<


----------



## Flamingo (Jun 3, 2022)

As a foreword, participants in answering this are reminded to keep it apolitical.


----------



## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

agreed. last thing i want is to get caught up in some political nonsense: i'm just asking about the attraction as a collector's item and nothing more.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 3, 2022)

Too add on to what Fallow said.
It's generally a good precaution in general to keep the firearms out of reach or properly stored in a locked cabinet or something similarly secure and not a synch to reach.
Ofc, I'm not an expert, I've only ever had two guns, an automatic shotgun and a little .22 revolver, #NotAnExpert.
But you know, good general practice to ensure your firearms are not easily accessible.


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I’m fine I don’t have to will to do it


Being real, since you've had suicidal thoughts, you shouldn't have a firearm in your home. If you have someone you can trust you lives in a separate residence, you should hand your gun over to them in a lockbox and give the key to someone else for safe keeping. If you don't have someone like that available, have the police take custody of your firearm so it's out of your reach.

I don't want you do to something you won't be around to regret.


----------



## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

Flamingo said:


> What'da buy?


It’s called a tp9 sfx (not sure if pics are allowed here)


----------



## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Being real, since you've had suicidal thoughts, you shouldn't have a firearm in your home. If you have someone you can trust you lives in a separate residence, you should hand your gun over to them in a lockbox and give the key to someone else for safe keeping. If you don't have someone like that available, have the police take custody of your firearm so it's out of your reach.
> 
> I don't want you do to something you won't be around to regret.


I don’t have the will so chill


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I don’t have the will so chill


I'm not going to belabor this, but sometimes talking to you, I don't know that and I rather you remove the possibility of that happening altogether.

That's all I'm saying.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> ok,i gotta ask because it's been bugging me ever since i found out that wendigoon was into them: why guns? like,i'm not trying to sound judgy or anything: i am honestly curious (as a canadian who's not really ALLOWED to have a gun collection in the first place because our gun laws are quite different here) what exactly the appeal is. is it because they are dangerous and that makes them cool? is it because they just look nice? is it because it's fun to shoot stuff? i really can't understand the appeal of them so someone help a canadian out.>_<


Makes boom :3


Also self defense but that's not the fun part


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## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> ok,i gotta ask because it's been bugging me ever since i found out that wendigoon was into them: why guns? like,i'm not trying to sound judgy or anything: i am honestly curious (as a canadian who's not really ALLOWED to have a gun collection in the first place because our gun laws are quite different here) what exactly the appeal is. is it because they are dangerous and that makes them cool? is it because they just look nice? is it because it's fun to shoot stuff? i really can't understand the appeal of them so someone help a canadian out.>_<


Self defense of myself and others is the only reason I have one. If I want to experience every gun out there, cause I find the engineering interesting, I’d play hot dogs horseshoes and handgrenades again.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Makes boom :3
> 
> 
> Also self defense but that's not the fun part


is it just the boom,though?


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> is it just the boom,though?


For me there are two main things
-I love the bang, the muzzle flash and smoke, the kick, all of that
-the mechanical action, from mundane things like bolt action to rare types like toggle-lock


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## Punji (Jun 3, 2022)

It's also fun to watch things pop and explode when shot, or to hit a bullseye.


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## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> For me there are two main things
> -I love the bang, the muzzle flash and smoke, the kick, all of that
> -the mechanical action, from mundane things like bolt action to rare types like toggle-lock


Get a room jeez


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 3, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> For me there are two main things
> -I love the bang, the muzzle flash and smoke, the kick, all of that
> -the mechanical action, from mundane things like bolt action to rare types like toggle-lock



Oh yesss, mechanical things ..,,  
*squeaks*


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> Get a room jeez


_pulls a Spencer repeating rifle into my room and shuts the door_


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

so what i'm gathering is that guns are to ya'll what cars are to other folks (that is,a sort of weird kinship to a type of machine) with the added advantage of it being sort of flashy with the boom and such,correct?


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> so what i'm gathering is that guns are to ya'll what cars are to other folks (that is,a sort of weird kinship to a type of machine) with the added advantage of it being sort of flashy with the boom and such,correct?



I like cars and guns. Oh, and baking bread.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 3, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> I like cars and guns. Oh, and baking bread.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> I like cars and guns. Oh, and baking bread.


i see. ok,i think i'm starting to get a better idea of it.


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> i see. ok,i think i'm starting to get a better idea of it.



If you need anything built out of wood, I got you covered.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> If you need anything built out of wood, I got you covered.


i mean...i wouldn't say no to a wooden cat totem necklace i could wear but i'm also not sure if you're kidding or not.XD


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> i mean...i wouldn't say no to a wooden cat totem necklace i could wear but i'm also not sure if you're kidding or not.XD


Oh, uh, totems are… how about a nice 2x4 cut in half?


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> ok,i gotta ask because it's been bugging me ever since i found out that wendigoon was into them: why guns? like,i'm not trying to sound judgy or anything: i am honestly curious (as a canadian who's not really ALLOWED to have a gun collection in the first place because our gun laws are quite different here) what exactly the appeal is. is it because they are dangerous and that makes them cool? is it because they just look nice? is it because it's fun to shoot stuff? i really can't understand the appeal of them so someone help a canadian out.>_<



I get this feeling. Part of me is like 'well some people have them for self defense' and I can believe that. I wouldn't mind having one for that same reason but at the same time, I am super clumsy and don't need to accidentally shoot myself.

I don't understand the fascination with guns, but after using explosives in video games I can't deny the fun of kaboomies. And it would probably be really cool to try detonating something if I ever had the chance. 

But everyone keeps telling me* 'That's ILLEGAL'. *>:c


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 3, 2022)

Build a potato cannon. Nobody is watching.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> Oh, uh, totems are… how about a nice 2x4 cut in half?


add a few rusty nails in one end and you've got a deal.>:3


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 3, 2022)

TyraWadman said:


> I get this feeling. Part of me is like 'well some people have them for self defense' and I can believe that. I wouldn't mind having one for that same reason but at the same time, I am super clumsy and don't need to accidentally shoot myself.
> 
> I don't understand the fascination with guns, but after using explosives in video games I can't deny the fun of kaboomies. And it would probably be really cool to try detonating something if I ever had the chance.
> 
> But everyone keeps telling me* 'That's ILLEGAL'. *>:c


ya,i've never exactly been a huge fan of guns as a whole (even the concept kinda turns me off. #teamblade) but i'm TRYING not to just assume that everyone that likes them is a lunatic and thus my attempts to understand the source of the attraction. i'm finding it to be a weirdly common thing for humans to get strong attachments to machines (cars,robots,computers,their damn phone ect) and that,alone i think is worth digging into.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 3, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> Oh, uh, totems are… how about a nice 2x4 cut in half?


Boroph chainsaw sculpture when?


----------



## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> ya,i've never exactly been a huge fan of guns as a whole (even the concept kinda turns me off. #teamblade) but i'm TRYING not to just assume that everyone that likes them is a lunatic and thus my attempts to understand the source of the attraction. i'm finding it to be a weirdly common thing for humans to get strong attachments to machines (cars,robots,computers,their damn phone ect) and that,alone i think is worth digging into.


I kinda wish we could go back to medieval style of combat it seemed more honorable than a gunfight


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I kinda wish we could go back to medieval style of combat it seemed more honorable than a gunfight


I'm perfectly capable of gutting someone with a spear instead of just shooting them for self defense but really, which is better?


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## KimberVaile (Jun 3, 2022)

Ah, the good old days of staring in somebody's eyes as you perforate their vital organs. Those were the times, nobody knows how to kill each other right anymore.


----------



## Kara Kusa (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I kinda wish we could go back to medieval style of combat it seemed more honorable than a gunfight


I dunno, flails seem tough to use ..and prone to backfire.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I kinda wish we could go back to medieval style of combat it seemed more honorable than a gunfight


I rike sword! Dassa personal weapon!


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## Kope (Jun 3, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> I'm perfectly capable of gutting someone with a spear instead of just shooting them for self defense but really, which is better?


I would have like  to have one handed the  (two handed great sword) Zweihänder along with a dagger ,but practically I probably would go with a classic sword and shield. (Also crossbows would have been the equivalent of a gun back then, huh)


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 4, 2022)

Kope said:


> I would have like  to have one handed the  (two handed great sword) Zweihänder along with a dagger ,but practically I probably would go with a classic sword and shield. (Also crossbows would have been the equivalent of a gun back then, huh)


Heavy af tho, can't really carry one around. And it's basically a spear with sharp edges on the shaft if you're in tight quarters. Better as a battlefield weapon

If we're talking about favourite swords now tho, gotta say there isn't enough love out there for the spadone. Ultimate skirmisher's sword


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## Rimna (Jun 4, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> ok,i gotta ask because it's been bugging me ever since i found out that wendigoon was into them: why guns? like,i'm not trying to sound judgy or anything: i am honestly curious (as a canadian who's not really ALLOWED to have a gun collection in the first place because our gun laws are quite different here) what exactly the appeal is. is it because they are dangerous and that makes them cool? is it because they just look nice? is it because it's fun to shoot stuff? i really can't understand the appeal of them so someone help a canadian out.>_<



Because guns are cool. It feels nice to hold them, it feels nice to look at them, it feels nice to maintain them, feels nice to load them and it feels great to shoot them.
Going to a range or shooting at targets is amazing. No wonder it's a sport. 

You can customize guns too - make them more functional, or make them more cool or downright silly like a gold-plated Desert Eagle. The Deagle is already a ridiculous gun on its own, but having one in gold makes it even more ridiculous. And I really like that.




Borophagus Metropolis said:


> If you need anything built out of wood, I got you covered.



Can you build guitars too? :O


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 4, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> ya,i've never exactly been a huge fan of guns as a whole (even the concept kinda turns me off. #teamblade) but i'm TRYING not to just assume that everyone that likes them is a lunatic and thus my attempts to understand the source of the attraction. i'm finding it to be a weirdly common thing for humans to get strong attachments to machines (cars,robots,computers,their damn phone ect) and that,alone i think is worth digging into.


Are robot boyfriends okay? c: 

And totally understandable. I am a curious bean that wants to understand fixations. It can be fascinating but it usually ends up being something like 'i dunno I just do'. Very unsatisfying XD


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## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Heavy af tho, can't really carry one around. And it's basically a spear with sharp edges on the shaft if you're in tight quarters. Better as a battlefield weapon
> 
> If we're talking about favourite swords now tho, gotta say there isn't enough love out there for the spadone. Ultimate skirmisher's sword


Lol yeah I need to be a big buff boi like guts or something


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## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

Rimna said:


> Because guns are cool. It feels nice to hold them, it feels nice to look at them, it feels nice to maintain them, feels nice to load them and it feels great to shoot them.
> Going to a range or shooting at targets is amazing. No wonder it's a sport.
> 
> You can customize guns too - make them more functional, or make them more cool or downright silly like a gold-plated Desert Eagle. The Deagle is already a ridiculous gun on its own, but having one in gold makes it even more ridiculous. And I really like that.
> ...


Doesn’t the desert eagle jam a lot too?


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## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Kope, I'm worried, given that you're quite open on the forum about having suicidal thoughts.
> Are you fully aware of the risk to yourself this represents?
> 
> If you are absolutely set on owning a weapon, please make sure it is stored in a locked safe and that the key is in a different part of the house to the safe.


Yeah, I self-deleted my entire reply to your comment.
I can't process that much stupidity and put it in a way FA's 'P.C.' wordage requires.
whoops...


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## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Too add on to what Fallow said.
> It's generally a good precaution in general to keep the firearms out of reach or properly stored in a locked cabinet or something similarly secure and not a synch to reach.
> Ofc, I'm not an expert, I've only ever had two guns, an automatic shotgun and a little .22 revolver, #NotAnExpert.
> But you know, good general practice to ensure your firearms are not easily accessible.


Only if you're a supporter of being murdered because you couldn't wield the Second Amendment in the scant seconds most IRL situations mandate.
You don't possess the most lethal/effective tool in your collection in a manner that renders it worthless for said purpose.
Unless of course, you're fond of having your carcass outlined in chalk?


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## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Only if you're a supporter of being murdered because you couldn't wield the Second Amendment in the scant seconds most IRL situations mandate.
> You don't possess the most lethal/effective tool in your collection in a manner that renders it worthless for said purpose.
> Unless of course, you're fond of having your carcass outlined in chalk?


We're talking, an extra five seconds to reach for your gun inside your house and unlock it, which you know. All the doors to your house should be locked by default. You're really telling me an extra five seconds is going to kill you? That's ludicrous. The supposed burglar or murder has to still break through your door.


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## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Yeah, I self-deleted my entire reply to your comment.
> I can't process that much stupidity and put it in a way FA's 'P.C.' wordage requires.
> whoops...


You okay dude?


----------



## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> Are you willing to store the weapon in a safe as a precaution?
> 
> If I had a weapon I'd do that even if I felt in a good state of emotional health.


i missed this, but yeah I would just need to find the right one.


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 4, 2022)

Rimna said:


> Because guns are cool. It feels nice to hold them, it feels nice to look at them, it feels nice to maintain them, feels nice to load them and it feels great to shoot them.
> Going to a range or shooting at targets is amazing. No wonder it's a sport.
> 
> You can customize guns too - make them more functional, or make them more cool or downright silly like a gold-plated Desert Eagle. The Deagle is already a ridiculous gun on its own, but having one in gold makes it even more ridiculous. And I really like that.
> ...


or do what that one guy did and rush a stage with a fake gun but attach a real knife to it.XD


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## QueenSekhmet (Jun 4, 2022)

TyraWadman said:


> Are robot boyfriends okay? c:
> 
> And totally understandable. I am a curious bean that wants to understand fixations. It can be fascinating but it usually ends up being something like 'i dunno I just do'. Very unsatisfying XD


robot lovers of all kind are always ok. #isupportrobolove

and ya,there are some things i just can't wrap my head around and "i just do" ain't gonna cut it for me so i need to dive right down the rabbit hole and see what i find.


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## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> We're talking, an extra five seconds to reach for your gun inside your house and unlock it, which you know. All the doors to your house should be locked by default. You're really telling me an extra five seconds is going to kill you? That's ludicrous. The supposed burglar or murder has to still break through your door.


You are an ignorant person.  That's not an insult.  Merely an observation gleaned from the choice of words, sentiment, and dare I say 'Advise/Wisdom' you're struggling oh-so-very-hard to present (and failing).
I hope you educate yourself on forceful entry technique, and the ludicrous construction most civilian doors are made of, and their locks/jam construction.  I hope you educate yourself on how fast anyone with evil intent can close the scant distance between themselves, and whoever is inside the place their breaking into.  Since they are armed, and awake, hyper-charged with adrenaline, while you/their victims are most likely asleep and as befuddled as a person can be, I'm counting every 1/10th of a second as life-saving.
You do you.  I wish you well.
Don't dare try and tell me/anyone else, that's already dealt with this (and we're still alive), that we should follow your ignorant example.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

Kope said:


> You okay dude?


No, actually. 
Also, not a 'Dude.'
 
I am and have been enraged, since this latest mass murder event at yet another public school, and the utter cowardice and failure of the Tax Paid Parasites 'We, the Fools' (uh, People) fund, to 'Protect and Serve' us, choose to embrace.
To see this whole anti-self-defense BS sweep across yet another platform, and all the gleeful Village Idiots embrace this doctrine that makes them/anyone who suffers under this stupidity, easier victims/casualties, angers me still more.
I SWORE I wouldn't enter into this Forum again, after the BS I already enjoyed, and the Mods/Owner's utter ridicule/indifference of it.
Yet this topic is literally life-or-death, and if people don't speak up when they can, the message and harsh lessons learned may not ever be read and considered.
So by all means, FA, delete me/my comments, if that's your real agenda.
I can't stop you from hanging yourself from this idiotic rope-of-insanity, if that's truly your intent.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> You are an ignorant person.  That's not an insult.  Merely an observation gleaned from the choice of words, sentiment, and dare I say 'Advise/Wisdom' you're struggling oh-so-very-hard to present (and failing).
> I hope you educate yourself on forceful entry technique, and the ludicrous construction most civilian doors are made of, and their locks/jam construction.  I hope you educate yourself on how fast anyone with evil intent can close the scant distance between themselves, and whoever is inside the place their breaking into.  Since they are armed, and awake, hyper-charged with adrenaline, while you/their victims are most likely asleep and as befuddled as a person can be, I'm counting every 1/10th of a second as life-saving.
> You do you.  I wish you well.
> Don't dare try and tell me/anyone else, that's already dealt with this (and we're still alive), that we should follow your ignorant example.


I dare say you suffer a lot from the Dunning-Krueger effect. You blanketly assume the construction and durability of the construction of Kope's living spaces and presume it's made of shoddy construction. You didn't once ask the construction of the guy's windows or door, btw. Beleive it or not, door and window construction isn't cleanly standardized. As I recall Kope has A. Expressed suicidal tendencies and B.lives in a college dorm. That or he lives in an apartment Could entirely be wrong but that's what I gleaned from what he has said so far. If you really think a lock on the gun safe is going to prevent you from retrieving your gun, you're lost beyond reason. I'm giving reasonable advice catered to this person's living situation.

Don't come to me with your foaming at the mouth horseshit and act like I'm giving the 'ignorant' advice.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> I dare say you suffer a lot from the Dunning-Krueger effect. You blanketly assume the construction and durability of the construction of Kope's living spaces and presume it's made of shoddy construction. As I recall Kope has A. Expressed suicidal tendencies and B.lives in a college dorm. That or he lives in an apartment Could entirely be wrong but that's what I gleaned from what he has said so far. If you really think a lock on the gun safe is going to prevent you from retrieving your gun, you're lost beyond reason. I'm giving reasonable advice catered to this person's living situation.
> 
> Don't come to me with your foaming at the mouth horseshit and act like I'm giving the 'ignorant' advice.


You are entitled to your opinion(s).  I will never gainsay that.
I have been a survivor of domestic violence, and those attempting to harm/murder me.  I live with severe depression and suicidal ideation, and am an avid 2A supporter to my marrow.  You believe owning a firearm, and/or having them taken from me, can prevent suicide?  You are a Fool if you answered 'Yes.'
I now live with the experiences and the wisdom they've granted me.  I sleep with a fully loaded .12, .44 magnum, AR-15, .22 rifle and pistol, 9mm, and my EDC Ruger 57 still attached in its holster on my web belt, bear spray, and an assortment of bladed weaponry, staves and spears, within arms' reach of my bed, every single night.  Does any of this guarantee I'll survive being attacked in the dead of night, while sleeping?  No, no it doesn't.  What they do give me is a serious advantage to any person or group of, breaking into my residence and trying to cause further harm.  (Been there, done that, know the joy of cleaning-up the mess left, after).  This doesn't even count on my Doggo being the best 'First Alert' system known to humanity, and all the damage he can do once I utter the Command.
You're free to make your own mistakes.  I wish you well.
btw, unless you're a Certified Psychologist/Psychiatrist (I always get the two confused, and honestly can't give a f*ck), it's ludicrous for YOU to try and make a Dx based on the scant words I've typed.
You want to try and slander me with your 'Foaming at the mouth' quip?   Oh, sweetheart!  You're so CUTE when you try to talk salty to your betters!  
Thx for the chuckles though!  I always enjoy Fools proving themselves!


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> You are entitled to your opinion(s).  I will never gainsay that.
> I have been a survivor of domestic violence, and those attempting to harm/murder me.  I live with severe depression and suicidal ideation, and am an avid 2A supporter to my marrow.  You believe owning a firearm, and/or having them taken from me, can prevent suicide?  You are a Fool if you answered 'Yes.'
> I now live with the experiences and the wisdom they've granted me.  I sleep with a fully loaded .12, .44 magnum, AR-15, .22 rifle and pistol, 9mm, and my EDC Ruger 57 still attached in its holster on my web belt, bear spray, and an assortment of bladed weaponry, staves and spears, within arms' reach of my bed, every single night.  Does any of this guarantee I'll survive being attacked in the dead of night, while sleeping?  No, no it doesn't.  What they do give me is a serious advantage to any person or group of, breaking into my residence and trying to cause further harm.  (Been there, done that, know the joy of cleaning-up the mess left, after).  This doesn't even count on my Doggo being the best 'First Alert' system known to humanity, and all the damage he can do once I utter the Command.
> You're free to make your own mistakes.  I wish you well.
> ...



I'm sorry for telling the suicidal guy to use a gun safe? You whipped up this manic seething post about how I shouldn't tell this guy who struggles with suicide who likely lives in a safe area that he should start carrying his gun to his bed. What else do I call that other than unhinged? You know sorry about your life experiences, but no that doesn't change that this is dogshit advice. Maybe if he lived in a bad area and wasn't suicidal, sure, I'd have a different tune.

Literally look at your replys, it's unhinged rambling about how everyone is in danger for not owning a gun, Second A that. Which is ironic, I'm a supporter of the Second A, despite how much you like to screech about it to me.
And I mean, if the shoe fits Aniwayas. Every reply you made sells the case that you're a foaming at the mouth nutter. No rational person would act out over something so minor, yet here you are. Half expecting your next rant to be about lizard men.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> I'm sorry for telling the suicidal guy to use a gun safe? You whipped up this manic seething post about how I shouldn't tell this guy who struggles with suicide who likely lives in a safe area that he should start carrying his gun to his bed. What else do I call that other than unhinged? You know sorry about your life experiences, but no that doesn't change that this is dogshit advice. Maybe if he lived in a bad area and wasn't suicidal, sure, I'd have a different tune.
> 
> Literally look at your replys it's unhinged rambling about how everyone is in danger for not owning a gun, Second A that. Which is ironic, I'm a supporter of the Second A, despite how much you like to screech about it to me.
> And I mean, if the shoe fits Aniwayas. Every reply you made it sells the case your a foaming at the mouth nutter. No rational person would screech act out over something so minor, yet here you are. Half expecting your next rant to be about lizard men.


If you say so, Darlin'.
I value my life more than you.
That's your onus to bear.  I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.


----------



## QueenSekhmet (Jun 4, 2022)

well THAT escalated quickly.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> If you say so, Darlin'.
> I value my life more than you.
> That's your onus to bear.  I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.


Advice curated to the individual user. Not blanket advice. Lol


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> well THAT escalated quickly.


Well, yeah.
I take it a tad personal when people try to deny others their ability to defend themselves, just to promote a BS political agenda.
Sue me?  I warn you ahead of time, I'm an extremely poor B*tch!
;-)


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

What's a nuance? Is that a new pistol I can buy?


----------



## QueenSekhmet (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Well, yeah.
> I take it a tad personal when people try to deny others their ability to defend themselves, just to promote a BS political agenda.
> Sue me?  I warn you ahead of time, I'm an extremely poor B*tch!
> ;-)


i honestly have zero interest in political anything. this is all just more internet drama to me.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jun 4, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> i honestly have zero interest in political anything. this is all just more internet drama to me.


Fair enough.


----------



## Hollowsong (Jun 4, 2022)

Ignore anything above: technical issues.


SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> Not really, no.  Different states have different regulations for different types of weapons.  Machine guns are highly restricted, as are things like .50cal rifles.  It's _possible_ to get one in some states (and in those states different counties and cities have their own restrictions), but it's not a matter of walking into a gun shop and picking one up.  There are very strict requirements to own anything like them, and the manufacture of stuff like automatic weaponry for civilian use was restricted decades ago.  Weapons manufactured before that were grandfathered, but those are largely in private collections or otherwise gradually disappearing.  They're still out there and can be purchased by people who can qualify to own them, but it's pretty limited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have two words for you: neil gaye


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## Hollowsong (Jun 4, 2022)

Simo said:


> In my mind, they tend to go really overboard with the 'paranoid' aspect of all this, as if at any moment, they need a gun for protection. To me, it'd be strange to live in such a psychological state, but that's just my take on matters.


Most Americans don't think like that. From what I can tell I'm weirdly paranoid for keeping a knife on me and knowing how to use it if I need to.


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## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

Hallowsong said:


> Most Americans don't think like that. From what I can tell I'm weirdly paranoid for keeping a knife on me and knowing how to use it if I need to.


Hallow, my dude, you're replying to posts that are over 5 years old.


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## Hollowsong (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Hallow, my dude, you're replying to posts that are over 5 years old.


Whups, why do I always forget to check?


----------



## Yakamaru (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Too add on to what Fallow said.
> It's generally a good precaution in general to keep the firearms out of reach or properly stored in a locked cabinet or something similarly secure and not a synch to reach.
> Ofc, I'm not an expert, I've only ever had two guns, an automatic shotgun and a little .22 revolver, #NotAnExpert.
> But you know, good general practice to ensure your firearms are not easily accessible.


Like having a knife in the drawer you keep guns in a gun locker. If you have kids in the house it's paramount that the guns are not reachable by them. Items require different but appropriate ways of storing them. Everyone who owns guns over here have their own locker that they are required to have and store their firearms in.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jun 4, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Like having a knife in the drawer you keep guns in a gun locker. If you have kids in the house it's paramount that the guns are not reachable by them. Items require different but appropriate ways of storing them. Everyone who owns guns over here have their own locker that they are required to have and store their firearms in.


I'd actually like to add that a worrying number of gun storage solutions are absolutely _terrible_ at keeping them secured from even a curious attempt at access.

Or maybe I'm just watching too many YouTube videos from that one lawyer.


Anyways, I'm familiar enough with guns, but won't want to have one when I have my own place.  I do _not_ trust my mind at times.

If I take up hunting, it'll be with a crossbow (I think the legal requirement is like 100-150 pound pull here?).  I'm told they're _more_ dangerous than a firearm, but I'd have a chance of actually hearing my surroundings after the first shot. (Hearing protection is kind of a no-no with hunting.)


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> I'd actually like to add that a worrying number of gun storage solutions are absolutely _terrible_ at keeping them secured from even a curious attempt at access.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just watching too many YouTube videos from that one lawyer.
> 
> ...


Most people don't know how to pick a lock. That said, it just reinforces how important it is to buy a lock/cabinet worth it's salt. As with most things, you need to do your research to make an informed decision. It's usually rather poor form to invest in security measures without some research involved.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jun 4, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> I'd actually like to add that a worrying number of gun storage solutions are absolutely _terrible_ at keeping them secured from even a curious attempt at access.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just watching too many YouTube videos from that one lawyer.
> 
> ...


And what solutions are you referring to, specifically? A simple lock and key tend to work wonders. A decent amount of lockers come with a code lock. Feeling extra paranoid and/or want to be more secure? Several different lock systems can be used and a lot of lockers come with that option.

And are you referring to the lawyer I think you're referring to? The dude have picked locks his entire life. Lockpicking isn't a common skill either for that matter. Just because someone may have a lockpicking skill it makes the solution itself terrible?


----------



## Firuthi Dragovic (Jun 4, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> And what solutions are you referring to, specifically? A simple lock and key tend to work wonders. A decent amount of lockers come with a code lock. Feeling extra paranoid and/or want to be more secure? Several different lock systems can be used and a lot of lockers come with that option.
> 
> And are you referring to the lawyer I think you're referring to? The dude have picked locks his entire life. Lockpicking isn't a common skill either for that matter. Just because someone may have a lockpicking skill it makes the solution itself terrible?


Yeah, it's that lawyer.

From what I've noticed of his content, where I usually see 'trashy' with gun storage solutions isn't so much the code locks on the lockers as either (a) their mechanical backup locks being the cheapest ones possible (wafer locks with poor tolerances, rather than pin-tumbler or disc-detainer), or (b) the lockers are built in a way that their code reset buttons can be reached by sticking an object inside the body of the locker while it's closed.

There's a reason I acknowledged the possibility I'd watched too much of his content to recognize the realities of gun storage.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jun 4, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Yeah, it's that lawyer.
> 
> From what I've noticed of his content, where I usually see 'trashy' with gun storage solutions isn't so much the code locks on the lockers as either (a) their mechanical backup locks being the cheapest ones possible (wafer locks with poor tolerances, rather than pin-tumbler or disc-detainer), or (b) the lockers are built in a way that their code reset buttons can be reached by sticking an object inside the body of the locker while it's closed.
> 
> There's a reason I acknowledged the possibility I'd watched too much of his content to recognize the realities of gun storage.


Hahahaha, yeah. I understand. People with a lot of experience in this field can make it look a hell'uva lot easier than what it actually is. Comes with the territory of knowledge and understanding in the field you're in. In the vast majority of cases though having just a lock and key tend to work. Though it's often useful to have two or more different lock systems to add more layers of protection/safety on top of what you already have.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 4, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> I'd actually like to add that a worrying number of gun storage solutions are absolutely _terrible_ at keeping them secured from even a curious attempt at access.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just watching too many YouTube videos from that one lawyer.
> 
> ...



The only time in my life where I've felt genuine need of a gun was when I was hiking in Svalbard, because they have polar bears. 
As Yakamaru mentioned, the rifle (I think it was bolt action; it looked pretty primitive) was stored in a secure locker- and carried by a man in our group who had completed a safety course.


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## Flamingo (Jun 4, 2022)

I shoot competitively and I use firearms for my profession. I enjoy the sport and practice regularly to maintain proficiency for military stuff.


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## Flamingo (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> I SWORE I wouldn't enter into this Forum again, after the BS I already enjoyed, and the Mods/Owner's utter ridicule/indifference of it.


It's okay, the siren's call of FAF (and Fur Affinity itself) is difficult to avoid.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 4, 2022)

Wow I missed a lot. Well, my two cents real quick


KimberVaile said:


> You blanketly assume the construction and durability of the construction of Kope's living spaces and presume it's made of shoddy construction.


You've got no clue how easy it is to break into even a decently well secured home, mate.


----------



## Baron Tredegar (Jun 4, 2022)

Kope said:


> I kinda wish we could go back to medieval style of combat it seemed more honorable than a gunfight





KimberVaile said:


> Ah, the good old days of staring in somebody's eyes as you perforate their vital organs. Those were the times, nobody knows how to kill each other right anymore.





Kope said:


> I would have like  to have one handed the  (two handed great sword) Zweihänder along with a dagger ,but practically I probably would go with a classic sword and shield. (Also crossbows would have been the equivalent of a gun back then, huh)





The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Heavy af tho, can't really carry one around. And it's basically a spear with sharp edges on the shaft if you're in tight quarters. Better as a battlefield weapon
> 
> If we're talking about favourite swords now tho, gotta say there isn't enough love out there for the spadone. Ultimate skirmisher's sword


If we are talking about blades now I have a tanto and a small short sword. I really like glaives and naginata polearms. My favorite sword might be the shamshir.


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 4, 2022)

Rimna said:


> Can you build guitars too? :O



Actually… that is a thing that I have dabbled in.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jun 4, 2022)

Baron Tredegar said:


> If we are talking about blades now I have a tanto and a small short sword. I really like glaives and naginata polearms. My favorite sword might be the shamshir.


Have any pictures of the tanto and short sword? Are they authentic?


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 4, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Have any pictures of the tanto and short sword? Are they authentic?



I have a picture of my short sword….


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Wow I missed a lot. Well, my two cents real quick
> 
> You've got no clue how easy it is to break into even a decently well secured home, mate.


The argument wasn't how easy is it to break into somebody's home. The argument was: Do you have 5 seconds to unlock your gun cabinet? Yes, you can usually do that if you're aware somebody is trying to break in. No, the materials are not going to crumble in 5 seconds due to brute force, that's ridiculous, nor are any other methods going to achieve a break so quick that you won't be able to retrieve your weapon. That's rather ridiculous. We are assuming that the method of break in is through the door (many apartments don't have windows), we can stop acting like criminals are literal ninjas.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> The argument wasn't how easy is it to break into somebody's home. The argument was: Do you have 5 seconds to unlock your gun cabinet? Yes, you can usually do that if you're aware somebody is trying to break in. No, the materials are not going to crumble in 5 seconds due to brute force, that's ridiculous, nor are any other methods going to achieve a break so quick that you won't be able to retrieve your weapon. That's rather ridiculous. We are assuming that the method of break in is through the door (many apartments don't have windows), we can stop acting like criminals are literal ninjas.


Oki, we can chillax a lil, I missed the small details of the argument aight?


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Oki, we can chillax a lil, I missed the small details of the argument aight?


's all good.


----------



## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> No, actually.
> Also, not a 'Dude.'
> 
> I am and have been enraged, since this latest mass murder event at yet another public school, and the utter cowardice and failure of the Tax Paid Parasites 'We, the Fools' (uh, People) fund, to 'Protect and Serve' us, choose to embrace.
> ...


I call everyone dude : p


----------



## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> I'm sorry for telling the suicidal guy to use a gun safe? You whipped up this manic seething post about how I shouldn't tell this guy who struggles with suicide who likely lives in a safe area that he should start carrying his gun to his bed. What else do I call that other than unhinged? You know sorry about your life experiences, but no that doesn't change that this is dogshit advice. Maybe if he lived in a bad area and wasn't suicidal, sure, I'd have a different tune.
> 
> Literally look at your replys it's unhinged rambling about how everyone is in danger for not owning a gun, Second A that. Which is ironic, I'm a supporter of the Second A, despite how much you like to screech about it to me.
> And I mean, if the shoe fits Aniwayas. Every reply you made it sells the case your a foaming at the mouth nutter. No rational person would act out over something so minor, yet here you are. Half expecting your next rant to be about lizard men.


Lizard men are hot af though…


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 4, 2022)

Baron Tredegar said:


> If we are talking about blades now I have a tanto and a small short sword. I really like glaives and naginata polearms. My favorite sword might be the shamshir.


Gib me Gladius. Or a Cavalry Sabre. Cause you know, I'm a dork like that.


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 4, 2022)

Kope said:


> I call everyone dude : p



Dude…


----------



## Firuthi Dragovic (Jun 4, 2022)

Baron Tredegar said:


> If we are talking about blades now I have a tanto and a small short sword. I really like glaives and naginata polearms. My favorite sword might be the shamshir.


If we're going to mention blades, I'm actually a fan of the spatha myself.

Not a fan of Japanese swords but that's because I found out about the history of them and that they... weren't exactly stellar blades in their heyday due to raw materials issues.

I don't dare own a real sword yet though.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 4, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Not a fan of Japanese swords but that's because I found out about the history of them and that they... weren't exactly stellar blades in their heyday due to raw materials issues.


They were actually on par with European swords as the metal folding technique helps homogenize the metal and remove the impurities that were present due to the inferior iron available


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jun 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> They were actually on par with European swords as the metal folding technique helps homogenize the metal and remove the impurities that were present due to the inferior iron available


I probably should read up on their history a bit more.  But yeah, the inferior iron was what was on my mind.

Let's see... how to put this topic back on the 'firearm' rails....


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 4, 2022)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> I probably should read up on their history a bit more.  But yeah, the inferior iron was what was on my mind.
> 
> Let's see... how to put this topic back on the 'firearm' rails....


----------



## Kope (Jun 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


>


Oh I love that channel


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## Jarren (Jun 5, 2022)

Well, this got a lot more active when I wasn't looking XD
Good to see some spirited and lighthearted discussion ^.=.^


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## Frank Gulotta (Jun 5, 2022)

I'm considering getting into this, gun training is on the rise due to all the happenings and it can be a good skill to have


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## Kope (Jun 5, 2022)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I'm considering getting into this, gun training is on the rise due to all the happenings and it can be a good skill to have


I think your people (The French) made a gun that shot out a white flag of surrender if I remember right?


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## Frank Gulotta (Jun 5, 2022)

Kope said:


> I think your people (The French) made a gun that shot out a white flag of surrender if I remember right?


And muricans created a rapid fire stale boring joke Gatling gun


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## Fallowfox (Jun 5, 2022)

So I hadn't looked at this thread for a million years,
but now that I have I noticed some behaviours are described that would, without specific police approval, be illegal in the territories of the users making them.

Always check with law enforcement before having a firearm modified in any way.
Do not attempt to buy a weapon you envision using against other humans if you live in the Schengen area; depending on your country you either need police approval recognising you're are a target of violent crime or a record of military service to demonstrate it is in the interest of national defence.


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## Mike Lobo (Jun 5, 2022)

Yes, I have a few guns. For hunting, mostly. A rifle, a shotgun, and a revolver. Revolver is for target practice.


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## Kope (Jun 5, 2022)

Can anyone explain to me why I’m a better shot with revolvers than pistols?


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## Baron Tredegar (Jun 5, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Have any pictures of the tanto and short sword? Are they authentic?


The short sword was given to me by my dad after a random Union member gave it to him at a work conference. My brother went with him on that trip and had to ask my dad why there was a sword in the back seat. The tanto was a random buy that my dad made on Amazon on a whim. He gave it to me when he realized he had no use for a USMC branded tanto.


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## Punji (Jun 5, 2022)

Kope said:


> Can anyone explain to me why I’m a better shot with revolvers than pistols?


Your comfort with a given firearm will dramatically improve accuracy.

If you're more excited or more confident using revolvers, or if the grip and weight of the gun in your hand is literally more comfortable you will easily achieve better performance.

It's very important to find a firearm that's right for you, or you might not enjoy using it as much.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 5, 2022)

Punji said:


> Your comfort with a given firearm will dramatically improve accuracy.
> 
> If you're more excited or more confident using revolvers, or if the grip and weight of the gun in your hand is literally more comfortable you will easily achieve better performance.
> 
> It's very important to find a firearm that's right for you, or you might not enjoy using it as much.


Also, with a revolver and a semi-auto of the same calibre, the revolver will have less recoil due to not having a slide


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 5, 2022)

Baron Tredegar said:


> If we are talking about blades now I have a tanto and a small short sword. I really like glaives and naginata polearms. My favorite sword might be the shamshir.


I have an authentic talwār and shamshir from 1800s India (mostly a difference of hilt), but I won't use them for anything.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 5, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I have an authentic talwār and shamshir from 1800s India (mostly a difference of hilt), but I won't use them for anything.


So not me lol. If I own something I will use it.
I've got a Springfield Model 1896 that was used by one of my ancestors in the Spanish-American War, and I take it out shooting. Same with my great grandma's Winchester 1894


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 5, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> So not me lol. If I own something I will use it.
> I've got a Springfield Model 1896 that was used by one of my ancestors in the Spanish-American War, and I take it out shooting. Same with my great grandma's Winchester 1894


Instead, I have a beater sword made by Condor that I use for brushwork.


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## Kope (Jun 5, 2022)

Punji said:


> Your comfort with a given firearm will dramatically improve accuracy.
> 
> If you're more excited or more confident using revolvers, or if the grip and weight of the gun in your hand is literally more comfortable you will easily achieve better performance.
> 
> It's very important to find a firearm that's right for you, or you might not enjoy using it as much.


The only thing is that revolvers have very low capacity


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 5, 2022)

Kope said:


> The only thing is that revolvers have very low capacity


I was gonna say 6-7 rounds isn't that low compared to semi-autos, but then I remembered that people not living in California are gonna have bigger than 10 round magazines



You could get a pepperbox revolver tho if you want more shots


----------



## Kope (Jun 5, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> I was gonna say 6-7 rounds isn't that low compared to semi-autos, but then I remembered that people not living in California are gonna have bigger than 10 round magazines
> 
> 
> 
> You could get a pepperbox revolver tho if you want more shots


Hmm yeah California can have stupid gun laws some times, but some of the things they implement do work according to the NY times their policies have reduced gun violence by 60%


----------



## KimberVaile (Jun 5, 2022)

Oh no.


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 5, 2022)

No gun law effectiveness debates for the love of all that is holy
I am not getting into this shit here and it's not allowed anyways


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## Kope (Jun 6, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> No gun law effectiveness debates for the love of all that is holy
> I am not getting into this shit here and it's not allowed anyways


Was just repeating what I saw earlier no debating necessary


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## ben909 (Jun 6, 2022)

Kope said:


> Can anyone explain to me why I’m a better shot with revolvers than pistols?


possibly more careful as you don't think you have as many shots, or the lack of moving parts
sort of applies to me

always applies in video games, but i am surprised it applies in rl at all


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## Kope (Jun 6, 2022)

ben909 said:


> possibly more careful as you don't think you have as many shots, or the lack of moving parts
> sort of applies to me
> 
> always applies in video games, but i am surprised it applies in rl at all


True I never though about the recoil of the slide affecting my aim before.


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## ben909 (Jun 6, 2022)

Kope said:


> True I never though about the recoil of the slide affecting my aim before.


i have no idea if it does or not, but for a second it can probably change the center of mass, but i don't know if it's important


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Jun 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> Can anyone explain to me why I’m a better shot with revolvers than pistols?


It might have a lot to do with balance of the weapon, trigger pull weight and trigger reach. Most people don't care for a Desert Eagle because of the huge grip and long trigger reach. It fine for me, I have big hands and long fingers. conversely, I don't like little handguns like .32 and .25 auto pocket semi-autos because they're just too small for my hands. Recoil also has a lot to do with how you like a pistol or revolver. My Desert Eagle has less perceived recoil that my Redhawk, both in .44 Mag. However, the Redhawk will come back on target faster than the DE.

I have a North American Arms .22 short revolver that fits into a specially made belt buckle. Yeah, not legal to wear if it's loaded in a bunch of states, I have a dummy cylinder for it. Anyway, it's really too small to fire effectively, being so darn tiny. That .22 short rimfire is also not a very effective round, either. Some pellet pistols have more grunt than that.

And a comment; If you need more than one magazine full or one reload of a revolver, you're no longer in a self-defense mode, you're in a firefight. Not a place you want to be.

That reminds me; need powder and bullets for 5.56 NATO. Oh well, trip to the gun shop tomorrow. Maybe they might have a Glock 44 in stock this time. I've been wanting a .22lr pistol that we can use as a practice piece without going through a bunch of .45ACP ammo in the Glock 21.


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## Kope (Jun 8, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> It might have a lot to do with balance of the weapon, trigger pull weight and trigger reach. Most people don't care for a Desert Eagle because of the huge grip and long trigger reach. It fine for me, I have big hands and long fingers. conversely, I don't like little handguns like .32 and .25 auto pocket semi-autos because they're just too small for my hands. Recoil also has a lot to do with how you like a pistol or revolver. My Desert Eagle has less perceived recoil that my Redhawk, both in .44 Mag. However, the Redhawk will come back on target faster than the DE.
> 
> I have a North American Arms .22 short revolver that fits into a specially made belt buckle. Yeah, not legal to wear if it's loaded in a bunch of states, I have a dummy cylinder for it. Anyway, it's really too small to fire effectively, being so darn tiny. That .22 short rimfire is also not a very effective round, either. Some pellet pistols have more grunt than that.
> 
> ...


I feel like one gun should be enough unless you have an army after ya lol


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Jun 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> I feel like one gun should be enough unless you have an army after ya lol


That is true.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> I feel like one gun should be enough unless you have an army after ya lol


I can't be happy without a minimum of two guns:
One that's nice to shoot, and one that makes a big bang and hurts to shoot


----------



## Kope (Jun 8, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> I can't be happy without a minimum of two guns:
> One that's nice to shoot, and one that makes a big bang and hurts to shoot


Trying to break your wrists or something?


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> Trying to break your wrists or something?


maybe


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 8, 2022)

If I could have one thing for my birthday...


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## Kope (Jun 8, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> If I could have one thing for my birthday...


Put a suppressor on it


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> Put a suppressor on it


If you took off the muzzle break, the gun would break when you fired it


----------



## Kope (Jun 8, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> If you took off the muzzle break, the gun would break when you fired it


But far cry games have them suppressed  
   >~<


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 8, 2022)

My license came in yesterday! Going on a shopping trip tomorrow


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## Kope (Jun 8, 2022)

I had a dream where I bought all the guns


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jun 9, 2022)

Kope said:


> I feel like one gun should be enough unless you have an army after ya lol


Do you work on anything mechanical/electrical?  Art?  Photography?
You cannot do most things with 'One tool.'  It requires a collection.
Most folks do many things that require (or strongly recommend) other tools to achieve the task.  Bird hunters are doing their thing.  Target/Competitive shooters, quite another.  Self defense?  Where do you live (city or rural)?  Do you have neighbors living on the other side of your walls?  How about on the other side of your lawn?  Bit further, but still within the path of any projectile fired?
What are the infringements your State/County/City may have to make you an easier victim to criminals that don't give a g-damned about any law?
You can pick 'One' firearm, and become Expert with it.  That alone can accomplish much, but it will never cover every contingency.  It pays to broaden your skills and 'Tools' so you can choose which will best do what needs to be done.


----------



## Kope (Jun 9, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Do you work on anything mechanical/electrical?  Art?  Photography?
> You cannot do most things with 'One tool.'  It requires a collection.
> Most folks do many things that require (or strongly recommend) other tools to achieve the task.  Bird hunters are doing their thing.  Target/Competitive shooters, quite another.  Self defense?  Where do you live (city or rural)?  Do you have neighbors living on the other side of your walls?  How about on the other side of your lawn?  Bit further, but still within the path of any projectile fired?
> What are the infringements your State/County/City may have to make you an easier victim to criminals that don't give a g-damned about any law?
> You can pick 'One' firearm, and become Expert with it.  That alone can accomplish much, but it will never cover every contingency.  It pays to broaden your skills and 'Tools' so you can choose which will best do what needs to be done.






The ultimate pistol that can be all the guns >:3


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 9, 2022)

I just bought my first gun! 



Norinco SKS Sporter. Once my NICS check clears I can physically take it


----------



## Kope (Jun 9, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I just bought my first gun!
> View attachment 133299
> Norinco SKS Sporter. Once my NICS check clears I can physically take it


The Russians do make beautiful wooden guns


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 9, 2022)

Kope said:


> The Russians do make beautiful wooden guns


This one is actually Chinese. China took the design further than Russia, who phased it out in favor of the AK-47.
They let me take the mags that came with it home (a 30rd and two 10rd), so it's just a matter of waiting a few days.


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 9, 2022)

Kope said:


> The Russians do make beautiful wooden guns



My Mosin Nagant was ugly until I put a fiberglass stock on it. It was not made to be beautiful. Or maybe it was. Who am I to judge?


----------



## Kope (Jun 9, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> My Mosin Nagant was ugly until I put a fiberglass stock on it. It was not made to be beautiful. Or maybe it was. Who am I to judge?


Hmm usually they look pretty good


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 9, 2022)

Kope said:


> Hmm usually they look pretty good



Mine was pretty beat up


----------



## Kope (Jun 9, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> Mine was pretty beat up


Don’t beat up your gun :0


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 9, 2022)

Kope said:


> Don’t beat up your gun :0



I didn’t do it. The Russians did it.


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## Kope (Jun 9, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> I didn’t do it. The Russians did it.


Time to invade boys let’s go (get that oil! Uh I mean freedom!)


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 9, 2022)

Gimme one sec. I'm going to give everyone here an aneurysm


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 9, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Gimme one sec. I'm going to give everyone here an aneurysm


----------



## Kope (Jun 9, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


>


What the grill is that


----------



## NutmegsBigAdventure (Jun 10, 2022)

my hands started nervously shaking as soon as I saw a Zip on this thread


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## ben909 (Jun 10, 2022)

i agree with kope here what is that

is it an attempt to bipass some rule or something, or an obscure weapon for some military unit that wants to try something new?


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## NutmegsBigAdventure (Jun 10, 2022)

Had a nice easy range day, spent half the day shooting steel and the other half picnicking in my truck bed looking at the scenery. Gotta get out there again soon!


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## NutmegsBigAdventure (Jun 10, 2022)

ben909 said:


> i agree with kope here what is that
> 
> is it an attempt to bipass some rule or something, or an obscure weapon for some military unit that wants to try something new?


it's supposed to be a genius personal carry weapon but it's such a raw piece of hot garbage it caused the company that made them to go bankrupt, it's a Zip .22


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## ben909 (Jun 10, 2022)

NutmegsBigAdventure said:


> it's supposed to be a genius personal carry weapon but it's such a raw piece of hot garbage it caused the company that made them to go bankrupt, it's a Zip .22


ok, seems a bit large of a magazine for a weapon you can conceal...


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## NutmegsBigAdventure (Jun 10, 2022)

ben909 said:


> ok, seems a bit large of a magazine for a weapon you can conceal...


it takes Ruger 10/22 rotary magazines, ususally it takes the small ones that fit flush with the grip but that also means it can also take the massive banana mags the Ruger can. 0 functionality but mechanically it can happen


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## Kope (Jun 10, 2022)

Anyone ever mess around with this gun in h3vr It’s pretty wild.


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## NutmegsBigAdventure (Jun 10, 2022)

Kope said:


> Anyone ever mess around with this gun in h3vr It’s pretty wild.


It's such an interesting piece, i mean it's not a bad firearm but sadly i can kinda understand why it didn't catch on


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## AniwayasSong (Jun 10, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> Nice, you'll like the cartridge.
> .308 still serves it's purpose, but the 6.5 does it better.
> 
> I can highly regard the Atlas BT10 for a bipod!Little pricey, but you'll like the pan feature, makes the Harris look like a meme in comparison.
> What are you looking at for optics Btw?


Just stumbled across this beautiful little range/ordinance testing on YT-





Now that I've got the optics, will soon own an Atlas, and stocked-up on the ammo, I can finally visit a nearby outdoor range open to the public and see for myself what this caliber (6.5 Creed) will do to melons, at distance!  (don't worry, these melons have it coming to them!)
;-)


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## Jarren (Jun 14, 2022)

Kope said:


> Anyone ever mess around with this gun in h3vr It’s pretty wild.


A local shop actually had one of these and a gyrojet in a collectors case a few years back.


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## Kope (Jun 14, 2022)

Jarren said:


> A local shop actually had one of these and a gyrojet in a collectors case a few years back.


No way it must have been expensive then


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## Zenoth (Jun 14, 2022)

Upgraded my edc the other day ^^. Scored a CZ P-01 Omega. Nice bit of Czech engineering.


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## Jarren (Jun 14, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> Upgraded my edc the other day ^^. Scored a CZ P-01 Omega. Nice bit of Czech engineering.


Glad to have been a source of peer pressu-  I mean, advice in this purchase!


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## Zenoth (Jun 14, 2022)

Jarren said:


> Glad to have been a source of peer pressu-  I mean, advice in this purchase!


May have embellished a little at the shop and told them "my friend that works at Sig Sauer that knows quality pistols recommended me to check these out" and busted out the list I had on my phone lol.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 14, 2022)

Once I pick up my SKS, I think I'll decide on a handgun. Beretta 92 is pretty high on my list


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## Kope (Jun 14, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Once I pick up my SKS, I think I'll decide on a handgun. Beretta 92 is pretty high on my list


I almost bought one, but went with my canik for the customization options. (It feels amazing to handle though)


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## Ramjet (Jun 15, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Just stumbled across this beautiful little range/ordinance testing on YT-
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Decent wound channel in those blocks even at that distance, cool to see that kinda data at range.

Hope you can get your setup in a timely matter and have better luck with the ammo then we do up here, haven't been able to grab my preferred 6.5 load for over 6 months! I'm just glad I picked up bulk before these shortages, but still hesitate to burn up what 6.5 I have when no replacement can be had atm.

Last time I went out I shot this at 300yrds, 4 shot cluster just under half MOA center to center (5th shot oopsies to fuck it up of course).







I know you said you had some airguns too, I just ended up picking up a Diana 280 in .177cal for cheap practice in the back 40.
I forgot how much I missed having a good accurate spring powered airgun.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 16, 2022)

Never mind the Beretta 92; I just purchased a Mauser HSC. Pretty little thing. Same story as the SKS though; delayed NICS verdict. Gotta wait a week.
Speaking of the SKS, I brought it home today


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 16, 2022)

I have never fired a Beretta, but I have driven one.


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## Kope (Jun 16, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Never mind the Beretta 92; I just purchased a Mauser HSC. Pretty little thing. Same story as the SKS though; delayed NICS verdict. Gotta wait a week.
> Speaking of the SKS, I brought it home today


Ok i don’t want to give you buyers remorse but a Mauser is quite harder to reload with those stripper clips


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 17, 2022)

Kope said:


> Ok i don’t want to give you buyers remorse but a Mauser is quite harder to reload with those stripper clips


its technique mostly. You'll get used to stripper clips if you use them enough


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## Kope (Jun 17, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> its technique mostly. You'll get used to stripper clips if you use them enough


Yeah but I prefer clips/magazines myself they’re more convienent to swap ammo and said magazines/clips


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 17, 2022)

Kope said:


> Ok i don’t want to give you buyers remorse but a Mauser is quite harder to reload with those stripper clips


The HSC isn't like the C96; it's closer to the Walther PPK.


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## Kope (Jun 17, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> The HSC isn't like the C96; it's closer to the Walther PPK.


Oh yeah I just looked it up. Looks neat


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 17, 2022)

I'm hoping to try out my SKS at the local range this weekend.


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## Yakamaru (Jun 20, 2022)

Been watching Colion Noir for a while and the M1A SOCOM 16 looks hella fun to shoot with, same for the SG551P. If or when I get the chance to visit the States in the near future again I would love to take these out on the shooting range and have some fun with them.


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## Kope (Jun 21, 2022)

I'm gonna trade in my pistol for a revolver cause I'm a better shot with them. I might have been a cowboy in a previous life or something.


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## Kope (Jun 23, 2022)

Anyone got a CZ scorpion Evo 3? I want to a 9mm semi auto sniper rifle lol


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 23, 2022)

I brought home the HSc today.


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## Kope (Jun 24, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I brought home the HSc today.
> View attachment 134278
> View attachment 134279
> View attachment 134280


Very pretty


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## Kope (Jun 24, 2022)

I bite the bullet and bought an AR to use it as a sniper


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 24, 2022)

Kope said:


> I bite the bullet and bought an AR to use it as a sniper


ARs do not make the best marksman rifles. I mean you can, my friend does precision AR, but it's not the best choice if you really want to have fun with long distance shooting, like 200+ metres


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## Kope (Jun 24, 2022)

I don’t need more than that I don’t think


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 24, 2022)

Kope said:


> I don’t need more than that I don’t think


What cartridge is it chambered for?


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## Kope (Jun 24, 2022)

5.56 of course


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## Kope (Jun 25, 2022)

Now I need to find a blue state that would allow an ar


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jun 25, 2022)

Kope said:


> Now I need to find a blue state that would allow an ar


That's most of the states. Exceptions are California, Massachusetts, New York state, New York city, Connecticut & New Jersey. There may be more that I'm not aware of.
California has an "Evil Features" thing; flash hider, detachable magazine, forward vertical grip, pistol grips are evil. Your rifle can't have more than two of these things. Choose wisely, grasshopper. The only easy ways around this is to build a bastardized AR that has a fixed magazine & no forward vertical grip, or add a kydex wrap so the pistol grip is not able to get your thumb around anything or install a grip that keeps the web of your thumb above the trigger guard opening & no forward grip. The pistol grip mod is the best option. Second best option is the Thordsen Customs enhanced stock. I have one and it's probably the best you can do for shooting ergonomics in Cali.
New Jersey is an outright ban on AR platforms. 'Nuff said.
Massachusetts is also an outright ban on all assault rifles and clones/lookalikes. Yeah.
New York State bans "Hi Capacity" magazines. You can own a 10 round magazine but if you're not at the range, it's illegal to load over 7 rounds. Must register rifle.
New York City - AR platforms are banned.
Connecticut banned all assault rifles and their clones.

I think I covered everything for ya.


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## Kope (Jun 25, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> That's most of the states. Exceptions are California, Massachusetts, New York state, New York city, Connecticut & New Jersey. There may be more that I'm not aware of.
> California has an "Evil Features" thing; flash hider, detachable magazine, forward vertical grip, pistol grips are evil. Your rifle can't have more than two of these things. Choose wisely, grasshopper. The only easy ways around this is to build a bastardized AR that has a fixed magazine & no forward vertical grip, or add a kydex wrap so the pistol grip is not able to get your thumb around anything or install a grip that keeps the web of your thumb above the trigger guard opening & no forward grip. The pistol grip mod is the best option. Second best option is the Thordsen Customs enhanced stock. I have one and it's probably the best you can do for shooting ergonomics in Cali.
> New Jersey is an outright ban on AR platforms. 'Nuff said.
> Massachusetts is also an outright ban on all assault rifles and clones/lookalikes. Yeah.
> ...


Yeah in cali you have to turn an ar into an m14 basically lmao


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## Kope (Jun 26, 2022)

It feels like a toy to me for some reason unlike my revolver


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 26, 2022)

Kope said:


> Now I need to find a blue state that would allow an ar


Pre-ban is your friend. I live in MA and you can still get "assault weapons" if you're willing to pay a bit of a premium.
On that note, here's my SKS


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## Kope (Jun 26, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Pre-ban is your friend. I live in MA and you can still get "assault weapons" if you're willing to pay a bit of a premium.
> On that note, here's my SKS
> View attachment 134454


Oh my god I love that wood! (Yeah I was looking for a pre ban FN Fal but had no luck sadly)


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## Zenoth (Jun 27, 2022)

Kope said:


> I bite the bullet and bought an AR to use it as a sniper


For long range stuff i'd say go for a Rugar Precision Rifle, .308 reaches out farther than 5.56.  AR is for 400 yards and closer.  Though I have seen people hit steel at 900 yards with a AR pistol, but that took custom loaded match grade ammo.


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## Kope (Jun 27, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> For long range stuff i'd say go for a Rugar Precision Rifle, .308 reaches out farther than 5.56.  AR is for 400 yards and closer.  Though I have seen people hit steel at 900 yards with a AR pistol, but that took custom loaded match grade ammo.


A pistol? Wtf


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## Kope (Jun 27, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> For long range stuff i'd say go for a Rugar Precision Rifle, .308 reaches out farther than 5.56.  AR is for 400 yards and closer.  Though I have seen people hit steel at 900 yards with a AR pistol, but that took custom loaded match grade ammo.


Maybe I’ll get a bolt action if I ever need to snipe someone (not sure that’s really a defensive purchase lol)


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## Zenoth (Jun 27, 2022)

Kope said:


> A pistol? Wtf


AR Pistols are not your average pistol. I have a picture of mine in this thread if you wanna search it up. 


Kope said:


> Maybe I’ll get a bolt action if I ever need to snipe someone (not sure that’s really a defensive purchase lol)


The RPR is a very nice 308 bolt action rifle with an amazing trigger. It even comes with a tool built into the bolt to adjust trigger weight all the way down to 1 lb. I think stock it's a 3 lb trigger anyways.  Very nice rifle to hit the long range ranges with.  I'll drop a picture of the RPR here for ya.


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## Punji (Jun 27, 2022)

Kope said:


> Maybe I’ll get a bolt action if I ever need to snipe someone (not sure that’s really a defensive purchase lol)


Bolt-actions are plenty of fun for sport-shooting, no need to view them as anything more than sporting equipment.

Getting those nice long shots is a blast, and bolt-actions will have highest performance at range if that's what you're looking for in one.

I second Zenoth, .308s are awesome.


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## Zenoth (Jun 27, 2022)

Kope said:


> A pistol? Wtf


Realized the AR Pistol is a few dozen pages back now, so to save some time I'll post another pic here xD.   AR Pistols are def not your average pistol.


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## Kope (Jun 27, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> Realized the AR Pistol is a few dozen pages back now, so to save some time I'll post another pic here xD.   AR Pistols are def not your average pistol.
> View attachment 134535


Yeah I saw one at my local gun store and the guy told me it wouldn’t shoot as far as the rifle so I didn’t get it (plus it was 100$ more) That bolt action looked slick btw


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## Zenoth (Jun 27, 2022)

Kope said:


> Yeah I saw one at my local gun store and the guy told me it wouldn’t shoot as far as the rifle so I didn’t get it (plus it was 100$ more) That bolt action looked slick btw


Sig say's it's accurate up to 400 yards, but that really depends on ammo.  Yea the RPR is built hella nice, and Ruger claimes "1400 yards, nuff said", which with .308 I can believe.


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## Flamingo (Jun 27, 2022)

Kope said:


> Can anyone explain to me why I’m a better shot with revolvers than pistols?


I assume you're firing the revolver in single action, with the hammer pre-cocked?


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## AniwayasSong (Jun 27, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> For long range stuff i'd say go for a Rugar Precision Rifle, .308 reaches out farther than 5.56.  AR is for 400 yards and closer.  Though I have seen people hit steel at 900 yards with a AR pistol, but that took custom loaded match grade ammo.


Agreed!
My 6.5 Creed hits targets out to 500 yards so easily, it's lost all semblance of 'Challenge' for me!  
Thankfully, I'll be visiting a special shooting range in August that has 1,500 yard ranges (I'm going for the 1,000 yard), and then I'll feel like it's worth the effort!


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## Kope (Jun 28, 2022)

Flamingo said:


> I assume you're firing the revolver in single action, with the hammer pre-cocked?


Yep I think that's part of it while there are less moving parts as well


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## Kope (Jun 28, 2022)

I think the US military is switching to 6.8  mm and was wondering your guys thoughts on it


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## TyraWadman (Jun 28, 2022)

Pewpew~


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## Flamingo (Jun 28, 2022)

Kope said:


> Yep I think that's part of it while there are less moving parts as well


That's probably why. Less trigger pull compared to a semi-automatic.



Kope said:


> I think the US military is switching to 6.8  mm and was wondering your guys thoughts on it


The Army is for combat troops. Big fan. The MCX is a fantastic weapon and 6.8mm is a stellar round.


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## Kope (Jun 28, 2022)

Flamingo said:


> That's probably why. Less trigger pull compared to a semi-automatic.
> 
> 
> The Army is for combat troops. Big fan. The MCX is a fantastic weapon and 6.8mm is a stellar round.


Hmm


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 28, 2022)

Kope said:


> I think the US military is switching to 6.8  mm and was wondering your guys thoughts on it


Don't have any, really. The only military rifle cartridge I've ever shot is 7.62×39
Is 6.8 Creedmoor like a compromise between NATO's 5.56 and 7.62 rounds?


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## Kope (Jun 29, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Don't have any, really. The only military rifle cartridge I've ever shot is 7.62×39
> Is 6.8 Creedmoor like a compromise between NATO's 5.56 and 7.62 rounds?


Yeah I think so and all it took was (insert  political gibirish here)


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## Ramjet (Jun 30, 2022)

6.8 has quite a bid higher BC (ballistic coefficiency) then 5.56 and would be better suited for barrier penetration as well as longer range ability (5.56/.223 is pretty much a glorified .22mag past 300yrds).
Little bit more weight to carry for a standard load-out is the only drawback I can think of.

USSOCOM choose 6.5 Creedmore to replace the 7.62 NATO/.308 for their precision rifle couple years back.Better BC, and higher consistency of hits at range.
Can confirm this myself as I run both, the 6.5 blows the .308 away in all aspects that matter.




Funny when you think about all the 6mm's now taking over as the new hotness for US military roles....
It's not at all a new concept for a fighting caliber.








						6.5×55mm Swedish - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Kope (Jun 30, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> 6.8 has quite a bid higher BC (ballistic coefficiency) then 5.56 and would be better suited for barrier penetration as well as longer range ability (5.56/.223 is pretty much a glorified .22mag past 300yrds).
> Little bit more weight to carry for a standard load-out is the only drawback I can think of.
> 
> USSOCOM choose 6.5 Creedmore to replace the 7.62 NATO/.308 for their precision rifle couple years back.Better BC, and higher consistency of hits at range.
> ...


I was thinking about getting a sniper rifle so 6.5 would be perfect for longer ranges than 308 huh


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jun 30, 2022)

Kope said:


> I was thinking about getting a sniper rifle so 6.5 would be perfect for longer ranges than 308 huh


6.5 stinky, embrace 30-30


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## Ramjet (Jun 30, 2022)

Kope said:


> I was thinking about getting a sniper rifle so 6.5 would be perfect for longer ranges than 308 huh



Absolutely nothing wrong with a .308 for long range, 6.5 just does it better albeit at a higher cost and lower ammo availability.
You'll always find .308 wherever you go.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jul 1, 2022)

Long range? Let's go "Ring The Gong" at 5,280 feet. That's 1.609 kilometers for you metric types. I'll take my McMillan in .50BMG and my crazy .224 Weatherby Magnum. Yeah, designed to fire an 55gr Spirepoint Boattail round. The barrel is good for about two thousand rounds, then it's cooked.

Recently, a guy my daughter knows (hopefully to be a son-in-law) tried to ring the gong with his 6.5 Creed. Ten rounds, finally nicked the bottom of the 18" gong on shot #9. No ring to be heard. The consensus is the 6.5 Creed is running out of gas at a mile. The .224 WM was ringing it loud enough to be heard at the firing line, so . . .

Every time a new round comes along, "It's the Best, Bruh!" Ten years later, can't find ammo because it's went by the wayside. I still have enough new Norma cases for my .224 WM to last me my lifetime. The only way to get cases for .32 Winchester Special (another fav of mine) is to fireform, then size and trim .30-30 cases. Might be a caution for 6.5 Creed shooters.


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## AniwayasSong (Jul 1, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Long range? Let's go "Ring The Gong" at 5,280 feet. That's 1.609 kilometers for you metric types. I'll take my McMillan in .50BMG and my crazy .224 Weatherby Magnum. Yeah, designed to fire an 55gr Spirepoint Boattail round. The barrel is good for about two thousand rounds, then it's cooked.
> 
> Recently, a guy my daughter knows (hopefully to be a son-in-law) tried to ring the gong with his 6.5 Creed. Ten rounds, finally nicked the bottom of the 18" gong on shot #9. No ring to be heard. The consensus is the 6.5 Creed is running out of gas at a mile. The .224 WM was ringing it loud enough to be heard at the firing line, so . . .
> 
> Every time a new round comes along, "It's the Best, Bruh!" Ten years later, can't find ammo because it's went by the wayside. I still have enough new Norma cases for my .224 WM to last me my lifetime. The only way to get cases for .32 Winchester Special (another fav of mine) is to fireform, then size and trim .30-30 cases. Might be a caution for 6.5 Creed shooters.


My dream rifle for that kind of range would be the Barrett .50BMG, but I have to accept I just don't have that kind of $$$, and since I have fired this beast (once), it's literally just too damned much 'Gun' for me.
 
I still look at them with a bit of envy/lust, and am not ashamed to admit it:  It's one damned fine looking/behaving beast in the right hands!


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## Kope (Jul 1, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Long range? Let's go "Ring The Gong" at 5,280 feet. That's 1.609 kilometers for you metric types. I'll take my McMillan in .50BMG and my crazy .224 Weatherby Magnum. Yeah, designed to fire an 55gr Spirepoint Boattail round. The barrel is good for about two thousand rounds, then it's cooked.
> 
> Recently, a guy my daughter knows (hopefully to be a son-in-law) tried to ring the gong with his 6.5 Creed. Ten rounds, finally nicked the bottom of the 18" gong on shot #9. No ring to be heard. The consensus is the 6.5 Creed is running out of gas at a mile. The .224 WM was ringing it loud enough to be heard at the firing line, so . . .
> 
> Every time a new round comes along, "It's the Best, Bruh!" Ten years later, can't find ammo because it's went by the wayside. I still have enough new Norma cases for my .224 WM to last me my lifetime. The only way to get cases for .32 Winchester Special (another fav of mine) is to fireform, then size and trim .30-30 cases. Might be a caution for 6.5 Creed shooters.


I just point at things and shoot them.  That’s why I like the Swiss Army knife of the gun world the AR (the school shooting thing is horrible and I would gladly give up mine to stop them though)


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## Kope (Jul 2, 2022)

I want a Desert Eagle UwU


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## The_Happiest_Husky (Jul 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> I want a Desert Eagle UwU


I want this


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jul 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> I want a Desert Eagle UwU



I want a new wrist


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jul 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> I just point at things and shoot them.  That’s why I like the Swiss Army knife of the gun world the AR (the school shooting thing is horrible and I would gladly give up mine to stop them though)



There are many nice rifles out there, but the “AR” is not one of them. It is extremely utilitarian.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> I want a Desert Eagle UwU


Shot one at the range. Not a fan.
Pain in the ass to re-center after each hard kick from the .50AE
My groupings with my SKS at 30 yards were twice as tight as with the Deagle at 10


----------



## Kope (Jul 3, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Shot one at the range. Not a fan.
> Pain in the ass to re-enter after each hard kick from the .50AE
> My groupings with my SKS at 30 yards were twice as tight as with the Deagle at 10


Yeah I changed my mind after the price lol 2000$ is way too much for the quality.


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## Kope (Jul 3, 2022)

Now after I get my saiga 12 clone I'm gonna buy one more gun before I stop with my gun shopping frenzy. That will be the CMR 30 make by kel tec


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jul 3, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> My dream rifle for that kind of range would be the Barrett .50BMG, but I have to accept I just don't have that kind of $$$, and since I have fired this beast (once), it's literally just too damned much 'Gun' for me.
> 
> I still look at them with a bit of envy/lust, and am not ashamed to admit it:  It's one damned fine looking/behaving beast in the right hands!


The Barrett .50 is a great semi-auto .50 BMG lead chucker but nowhere as accurate as a bolt action McMillan. I mean, yeah, you could stay on an 18" gong at a mile if you were careful, it's just so much easier with a bolt action rifle.


Kope said:


> I just point at things and shoot them.  That’s why I like the Swiss Army knife of the gun world the AR (the school shooting thing is horrible and I would gladly give up mine to stop them though)


It's a Swiss army knife only in the respect you can buy a bunch of junk to hang on the thing, weighing it down. don't do that, enjoy the lightweight sporting rifle as it was meant to be used.


Borophagus Metropolis said:


> I want a new wrist


Here's a new one. Let's go shoot my .454 Casull with full house hunting loads. Still have wrist left? Let's go shoot a BFR in 45-70 Gov't.


Borophagus Metropolis said:


> There are many nice rifles out there, but the “AR” is not one of them. It is extremely utilitarian.


See my comment to @Kope above. Any AR that's Tacti-COOL'd out weighs at least a few pounds more than my Slick Side Johnny Mattels.


Kope said:


> Now after I get my saiga 12 clone I'm gonna buy one more gun before I stop with my gun shopping frenzy. That will be the CMR 30 make by kel tec


MY Saiga 12's are all the sporting style from the pre-embargo days with Russia. Been looking at the Kalashnikov USA models with the fixed stock just so my good Saigas don't get beat up from shooting trap at the range.

*The following is for those that may be thinking about owning a full auto rife in the USA. Read on*

Just had my first ATF Meet And Greet in Indiana last Friday because I have a Class III tax stamp for an NFA rifle that I still haven't bought yet. About five hours or so, digging through all my collection, checking a serial number here and there, cross checking my documents, drinking my coffee and the wife even went and grabbed some donuts for us. Interesting conversation at times: "What's this barrel for?" Agent Caldwell (not his real name) asks, holding my .416 Barrett barrel for my McMillan. I had to explain the Cali rules against .50 BMG so the subsequent rebarrel to .416 Barrett and the return to .50 after we moved away from the west coast. They chuckled, shaking their heads.
Got around to the black powder firearms safe, they still had to touch them all to ensure they really were black powder. They thought my Blunderbuss was a riot and they were surprised by the number of cylinders I have for my Remington 1858 replicas. I use them as pseudo speed loaders. They even shot a few rounds of .22 pellets through my CO2 pellet pistols as I have a short range with a pellet trap in my basement. 25 feet to be exact.
All in all, these guys were different from the "ATF Goons" that I had a meeting with in Cali. These agents were polite, didn't handle anything rough, allowed me to help them find a rifle in question (Yeah, they do know what you have. Don't try to bull-shit them) and surprised me by giving me the names of a few guys that have full rock and roll rifles for sale. One guy has a full-auto Uzi compact pistol(!) for $2,500 USD. I have the semi-auto version and it barely prints paper at 50 feet. We finished by updating my information for the ATF, actually just checking and confirming info and they took some coffee with them when they left. Very surreal. I was actually plannning on going to the range so I already had my S&W Model 10 in my shoulder holster when they arrived. They never once questioned it other than to ask to see the serial number. I unloaded it, gave it to Agent Hilton (also not his real name), he read the number off and gave it back to me. I reloaded it and holstered it. No questions. made for a very interesting day, overall. So, that's what you can expect if you have a NFA rifle or pistol.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 8, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> The Barrett .50 is a great semi-auto .50 BMG lead chucker but nowhere as accurate as a bolt action McMillan. I mean, yeah, you could stay on an 18" gong at a mile if you were careful, it's just so much easier with a bolt action rifle.
> 
> It's a Swiss army knife only in the respect you can buy a bunch of junk to hang on the thing, weighing it down. don't do that, enjoy the lightweight sporting rifle as it was meant to be used.
> 
> ...


My first rifle was a bolt action Winchester, in .22LR.  I ADORED this rifle, for its accuracy/reliability!  (brought home many rabbits/pheasant/quail for the family dinner!)
As I grew up, I started to lean into the semi-auto for their quick follow-up shots ('cause, we don't always hit and stop the game with the first round, now matter how much we try).  I admit, semi's have been a fondness to myself, ever since.
One thing that attracts me so much to the 'Heavy Artillery' that is the .50BMG is its sheer stopping power.  Sure, there are other calibers out there, and for 'Accuracy's' sake, some that are even better at landing that round exactly where it needs to go.
I just can't get over that 'Follow-up shot' mentality, for better or worse.
Take all that, and then go here-
I recently (well, last year!), bought a Ruger Precision, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.  So far, I ADORE this rifle, because I can reach out and nail anything out to 800 yards, and hope to increase this to 1,000(+?) later this Summer.
No, it is not nearly as heavy, or holds the ballistics of heavier projectiles.  I know this, and use it accordingly.
For myself?
I cherish landing the rounds exactly where I want them to go.
Thus far, my choice of Marksmanship has yet to fail me.

I am a happy B*tch, wielding any of my various firearms!

;-)


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 8, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> 6.5 stinky, embrace 30-30


uhmmmmmm...
I own Papa's M1 Garand, in 30.06.  I trust this 'Tank' of a rifle, for anything inside 500 yards, to stop anything living (and I have 7 more rounds to follow, should the first fail in that endeavor?!)
I'll take my 6.5 over the Garand, past 500 yards, any day of the year.  
Sue me.
;-)


----------



## Kope (Jul 8, 2022)

Idk why, but I can’t help feeling disgusted I bought an ar15 considering it’s what has been used in these mass shootings.  I never should have bought it


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Jul 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> Idk why, but I can’t help feeling disgusted I bought an ar15 considering it’s what has been used in these mass shootings.  I never should have bought it


Its literally just a gun, and not even a great one at that


----------



## Kope (Jul 8, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Its literally just a gun, and not even a great one at that


I know I’m just more sensitive than most people for better or worse.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> Idk why, but I can’t help feeling disgusted I bought an ar15 considering it’s what has been used in these mass shootings.  I never should have bought it


If you're blaming the rifle, instead of the homicidal maniac?
Rethink your perspective(s).
Please.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 8, 2022)

Kope said:


> Idk why, but I can’t help feeling disgusted I bought an ar15 considering it’s what has been used in these mass shootings.  I never should have bought it


It's the most popular style of semi-automatic rifle in the US, so naturally you're going to see them used more in crime than others.
The common factor in these events that people should be focusing on is the ideology, not the tool of choice.
At the very least, people who blame the tool could bother to read up on the most basic terminology. It's not a "machine gun", it's not a "weapon of war", and it is *certainly* not a "weapon of mass destruction."


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2022)

The AR platform is also stupidly easy and comfortable to use compared even many handguns. People make it seem like its some tank busting LMG with an infinite drum mag.

Its a meme because its easy and reliable. 
If you arent planning to add to the list of mass shooters, enjoy your rifle.


----------



## Kope (Jul 8, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> The AR platform is also stupidly easy and comfortable to use compared even many handguns. People make it seem like its some tank busting LMG with an infinite drum mag.
> 
> Its a meme because its easy and reliable.
> If you arent planning to add to the list of mass shooters, enjoy your rifle.


I guess


----------



## Punji (Jul 8, 2022)

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


----------



## Chaosmasterdelta (Jul 8, 2022)

Punji said:


> Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


Guns can go off on their own, though.


----------



## Punji (Jul 8, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> Guns can go off on their own, though.


I mean, no, not really.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> Guns can go off on their own, though.





Even if they_ did_, someone could still be blamed for negligence if it injured someone...


----------



## Rimna (Jul 8, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> Guns can go off on their own, though.


A gun can load its mag, pull the safety down, chamber a round by itself and then go off on its own?

I am finding this very difficult to believe.


----------



## Chaosmasterdelta (Jul 8, 2022)

Punji said:


> I mean, no, not really.





Judge Spear said:


> View attachment 135171
> 
> Even if they_ did_, someone could still be blamed for negligence if it injured someone...





Rimna said:


> A gun can load its mag, pull the safety down, chamber a round by itself and then go off on its own?
> 
> I am finding this very difficult to believe.


I looked it up and the answer turns out to be kind of both yes and no.








						Do Guns Accidentally Go Off?
					

Accidental or negligence? Generally, guns do not go off by themselves but there are rare instances when this can happy.




					www.usacarry.com


----------



## Kope (Jul 8, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> Guns can go off on their own, though.


Especially when children get a hold of them.


----------



## Rimna (Jul 8, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> I looked it up and the answer turns out to be kind of both yes and no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But it went off after the person tried to switch the safety on. it didn't produce the shot on its own - something happened after the safety lever was moved.

Besides, the guy could have taken off the mag and cleared the chamber first.

A gun can malfunction and break, but for a round to magically go off on its own - I just don't see how it can happen without external factors or negligence.


----------



## Punji (Jul 8, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> I looked it up and the answer turns out to be kind of both yes and no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Accidental or negligence? Generally, guns do not go off by themselves but there are rare instances when this can *happy*."

This site doesn't seem the most accurate and professional. :/

It's also a single anecdotal incident told from a single individual. A bit hard to really believe, in my opinion.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 8, 2022)

Rimna said:


> But it went off after the person went to switch the safety on. it didn't produce the shot on its own - something happened after the safety lever was moved.
> 
> Besides, the guy could have taken off the mag and cleared the chamber first.
> 
> A gun can malfunction and break, but for a round to magically go off on its own - I just don't see how it can happen without external factors or negligence.


It's almost like there's a specific reason I chose the words I did, right? lol


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Jul 10, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> I looked it up and the answer turns out to be kind of both yes and no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Geez, I have to call BS on this pile of horse excrement. Being intimate with the ins and outs of a Kalashikov action, his safety might have been fractured, but that in itself will not cause the trigger to move, causing the sear to disconnect and allow the hammer to fall. In the case discussed, the n00b had a round in the chamber(!), was most likely holding the rifle by the pistol grip with his right hand, finger on the trigger while he reached over the receiver with his off (left) hand to engage the safety. fractured safety didn't move properly, so he gave it a yank, instinctively grasping the weapon with his right hand, pulling the trigger.

There was all kinds of wrong in that scenario and at the very least, the instructor should have been let go for not giving the AK n00b some further initial instruction about not "crossing the rifle" to operate the safety. You can reach the AK safety with the tip of your right index finger. Not very ergonomic but hey, it's an AK design. You can also hold the rifle by the forearm and use your right hand to engage said safety. This was also a bad mark against the AK n00b, since with the receiver cover off and the bolt removed, you can see EVERY ASPECT of the trigger group. He obviously did not inspect his rifle beforehand very closely.

As far as the Kakashnikov safety design, it is located behind the sear, actually independent of the trigger assembly, merely preventing the sear from moving toward the buttstock, allowing the hammer to impact the firing pin. Even with the safety completely missing, it would not fire unless the trigger was pulled.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Jul 10, 2022)

Chaosmasterdelta said:


> I looked it up and the answer turns out to be kind of both yes and no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's unlikely




It would be up there with mortaring an AR.  A lot would be going wrong.

I am by no means an expert, but I tend to have to note a few things which call into question the story:
1) there was no clearing procedure which is ALWAYS step f'ing 1 when teaching firearm safety. So there was a chambered round.
2) mixed weapons training is really bad as ARs and AKs have differences is how they approach the safety trigger
3) owner was negligent because of a cracked safety.
4) given above, the student had their finger on the trigger.  
Why would they have their finger on the trigger?  Because both the AK and AR platforms have a trigger squeeze as a function check.

Super unlikely it went off without human intervention.


----------



## ben909 (Jul 10, 2022)

wasn't there a specific battle rifle thats fireing pin could bounce around and cause it to go off without the trigger?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 10, 2022)

Kope said:


> Especially when children get a hold of them.


That still isn't the gun magically firing on it's own. 
That's a child getting hold of a deadly weapon they don't know how to use and firing it by mistake because the adult *neglected *to keep it out of their reach.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 10, 2022)

ben909 said:


> wasn't there a specific battle rifle thats fireing pin could bounce around and cause it to go off without the trigger?


Well, the SKS is kind of "known" for the firing pin sticking in the bolt body, due to improper cleaning, bolt body having an issue with the firing pin hole... it's part of the "why we do this first" mythos. If the pin doesn't rattle.when you shake the rifle, the firing pin is probably stuck in the forward position. Both issues are readily addressed.


----------



## Kope (Jul 10, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> That still isn't the gun magically firing on it's own.
> That's a child getting hold of a deadly weapon they don't know how to use and firing it by mistake because the adult *neglected *to keep it out of their reach.


We could talk about the incidents where guns triggers get caught in clothing and misfire too


----------



## Shyy (Jul 10, 2022)

I like the ones with the idiots that shoot themselves after making stupid statements about how "they are the only one in this room professional enough to handle a gun." Love those idiots...


----------



## Kope (Jul 10, 2022)

Shyy said:


> I like the ones with the idiots that shoot themselves after making stupid statements about how "they are the only one in this room professional enough to handle a gun." Love those idiots...


I saw one where an "outdoor gun instructor" walks across the firing line after giving the go ahead to fire


----------



## Shyy (Jul 10, 2022)

The cop that tries to reholster his glock, and, damn near kneecaps himself, in a room full of kindergarteners.


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## Kellan Meig'h (Jul 11, 2022)

when I was still serving as an LEO, I watch my watch captain shoot himself in the thigh with a Glock 17 during quals. They were new to the department, you had a choice to keep your current sidearm or go with a new Glock. He didn't pass quals that day, BTW.


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## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> when I was still serving as an LEO, I watch my watch captain shoot himself in the thigh with a Glock 17 during quals. They were new to the department, you had a choice to keep your current sidearm or go with a new Glock. He didn't pass quals that day, BTW.


Ouch


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 11, 2022)

Kope said:


> We could talk about the incidents where guns triggers get caught in clothing and misfire too


I'm assuming you're trolling now so I dont care anymore.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 11, 2022)

Jarren said:


> So, how many around here are into shooting sports and/or own some boom-sticks of their own? Got any milsurp recommendations or interesting stories from the range or back woods? Looking for advice on getting started with collecting or want to show off some of your nicer specimens? Do it here.
> Me? I've only got a single rifle in my collection. A little, beat up Norinco SKS. I'm looking to expand my armory, but more immediate budget concerns have prevented that.


Well, this was unexpected, but hell, how can I pass?
I bought my first Mossberg Model 590 (just caught this typo.  sowwy) .12 'Tactical' nearly thirty years ago (don't quote me, I'm tired and ran outta fingers to count-back accurately), for $500.00.
JUST saw a brand new one for LESS?
*SOLD!*
Damn.  Now I gotta buy another Ontario bayonet, and 3,000 rounds, sling, replacement front sight, and more cleaning supplies...
Ahhh, well...
Some women buy shoes.
I invest in 2A accessories!
(Gotta put my new Atlas bipod on the back-burner, but heck,,, I still have the sandbags!)
;-P


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Judge Spear said:


> I'm assuming you're trolling now so I dont care anymore.


I was serious, but I do enjoy tactical trolling on occasion.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

So, you pocket carry? That's got to get "interesting" at times... *looks at NA .22mag revolver in beltbuckle*


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## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Shyy said:


> So, you pocket carry? That's got to get "interesting" at times... *looks at NA .22mag revolver in beltbuckle*


Jokes on you I pocket carry a 50 Cal desert eagle as it is super practical *nods*


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

>w>


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Cross chest rig


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## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Shyy said:


> View attachment 135282Cross chest rig


You got me thinking about the 2011 now and wondering if it is better than the 1911


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Mixed thoughts, personally.  Most of my "pass" comes from being invested in parts and tooling for standard (?) 1911 chassis.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Also, define "better"...


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Honestly, I don't see the appeal for another double stack 9mm. I've got Hi-Powers, Berettas, 9mm Tokorovs, etc...


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Is there any advantage to single stacked like somehow less chance to jam or something?


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Normally, no. The biggest reason for the popularity of a double stack is capacity.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

I've got big paws, however, due to the way they are, a double stack is an awkward thing for me to hold. This is also why I tend to stay with single stacks.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Not to mention, industry standards, SAMI, and the general population accepting double as a "normal" thing.


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Wait till they make triple stacked UwU


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## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Nah, I'm good with a Freedom Arms 9mm belt fed upper with a 7" barrel on a braced pistol lower...


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Punji said:


> I mean, no, not really.


Dropping them or otherwise them falling on the ground causes them to go off as well


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Nah, I'm good with a Freedom Arms 9mm belt fed upper with a 7" barrel on a braced pistol lower...


Wtf


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Kope said:


> Dropping them or otherwise them falling on the ground causes them to go off as well


Eeew!!!! Sig-Sauer. P320 or 325, I think it is. They still will not correct a known defect unless either you send it back or it is/was part of the fed contract.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Kope said:


> Wtf


Is also equipped with a Franklin "Echo".
My apologies, freedom ordnance.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

I <really> need to pay better attention to "who made what" that is in my collection. I like it, I get it. *looks at pile of stuff dragged home from working in surplus warehouse*


----------



## Punji (Jul 11, 2022)

Kope said:


> Dropping them or otherwise them falling on the ground causes them to go off as well


They really don't. If they did, wouldn't this be a primary concern of gunsmiths? Creating a practical and comfortable firearm with above-average safety measures would be a new industry standard.

I tried to find the Mythbusters episode about this on YT but the greedy assholes (YT) want you to pay for it. The episode is 189: Hollywood Gunslingers.




[Source: https://mythresults.com/hollywood-gunslingers]

This just doesn't happen. That's not how the internal mechanisms of a firearm operate. I'd never suggest anyone do anything dangerous, and I'll tell you the worst that would come of throwing a loaded gun onto a hard surface on the ground is that you might scrape the paint on it.


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jul 11, 2022)

I want to make a mini gun-range in my basement. I can get about a 40 foot length, but miss and the water pipes explode.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 11, 2022)

Kope said:


> Is there any advantage to single stacked like somehow less chance to jam or something?


Well, if you've got small hands, single-stack can help with that.  If you conceal carry single stacks favor a slimmer frame which equates to more comfort/concealability (In general.  There are always exceptions.)
It's for this reason I switched from carrying my trusty-dusty Ruger P85 (9mm, double-stack), to the slightly larger Ruger 57 pistol (height/length, but not width).  Of course, I no longer conceal carry due to refusing to pay governments extortion/racketeering fee(s) and historical colonoscopy of my life every two years, for their permission to enjoy my Right(s).
(That, and the fact the '57' has a twenty round capacity/mag.!)
;-)


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 11, 2022)

Punji said:


> They really don't. If they did, wouldn't this be a primary concern of gunsmiths? Creating a practical and comfortable firearm with above-average safety measures would be a new industry standard.
> 
> I tried to find the Mythbusters episode about this on YT but the greedy assholes (YT) want you to pay for it. The episode is 189: Hollywood Gunslingers.
> 
> ...


pffffft@'True Lies'
I got up and left the theater when THAT scene was shown, and have refused to watch the movie/its ending, ever since.


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Well, if you've got small hands, single-stack can help with that.  If you conceal carry single stacks favor a slimmer frame which equates to more comfort/concealability (In general.  There are always exceptions.)
> It's for this reason I switched from carrying my trusty-dusty Ruger P85 (9mm, double-stack), to the slightly larger Ruger 57 pistol (height/length, but not width).  Of course, I no longer conceal carry due to refusing to pay governments extortion/racketeering fee(s) and historical colonoscopy of my life every two years, for their permission to enjoy my Right(s).
> (That, and the fact the '57' has a twenty round capacity/mag.!)
> ;-)


I hate when I have to pay taxes to  carry around  my personal tactical nuke >:/


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

Punji said:


> They really don't. If they did, wouldn't this be a primary concern of gunsmiths? Creating a practical and comfortable firearm with above-average safety measures would be a new industry standard.
> 
> I tried to find the Mythbusters episode about this on YT but the greedy assholes (YT) want you to pay for it. The episode is 189: Hollywood Gunslingers.
> 
> ...











						Unintentional Shootings - The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence
					






					efsgv.org


----------



## Punji (Jul 11, 2022)

Kope said:


> Unintentional Shootings - The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what your argument here is. Did you have a specific section you want to highlight?

"Unintentional shootings" is exactly as it sounds. Accidentally shooting oneself or another. Ya' know, pulling the trigger.





I skimmed but no where that I saw ever mentioned firearms just going off without a human actively firing the gun themselves.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 11, 2022)

Are we at the part of the thread where people want to debate gun control laws again? Lol.


----------



## Rimna (Jul 11, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Are we at the part of the thread where people want to debate gun control laws again? Lol.



Not yet, we're currently going on about guns loading themselves and firing directly at people, completely on their own with no human interaction at all.


----------



## Thrashy (Jul 11, 2022)

I have this gun here:


----------



## Kope (Jul 11, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Are we at the part of the thread where people want to debate gun control laws again? Lol.


I’m too tired and broken (literally) to argue


----------



## Shyy (Jul 11, 2022)

Nope. *leaves*


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 12, 2022)

Kope said:


> I hate when I have to pay taxes to  carry around  my personal tactical nuke >:/


::snirks::
Personally, I hate the way they chafe while CC'ing them.
;-P


----------



## Kope (Jul 12, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> ::snirks::
> Personally, I hate the way they chafe while CC'ing them.
> ;-P


That’s fair lol


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Jul 14, 2022)

Shyy said:


> So, you pocket carry? That's got to get "interesting" at times... *looks at NA .22mag revolver in beltbuckle*


I have one of those NAA belt buckle revolvers in .22lr - I also have the optional at the time blank cylinder that can't be loaded for "Safe Carry." Not practical at all. Not much better than throwing rocks. In a way, better to throw rocks, at least you won't hurt yourself trying to quick draw that little beggar and shooting your weak hand instead.


Kope said:


> Dropping them or otherwise them falling on the ground causes them to go off as well


Old Colt SAA and the ilk and any older design DA revolver with the firing pin fixed to the hammer (example, S&W Model 10 or 13) were the reason to short load by one, then keep the hammer down on the empty chamber. If you dropped it, it didn't go off. That's the reason for transfer bar safeties on modern revolvers.


KimberVaile said:


> Are we at the part of the thread where people want to debate gun control laws again? Lol.


Nope, not here. If you feel a need, PM me.

Aaaand, Back when I was an LEO, on occasion responded to a (self) shooting call. "I was cleaning it and it went off." No cleaning supplies in sight. Or, shot in the foot/leg on the strong side, a holster on a belt laying nearby that suspiciously fits the handgun in question. Or shot in the weak hand, same scenario. Yeah, playing fast draw. Here, hold my beer, watch this. One guy came pretty close to shooting his junk off. It did not help when department policy required pictures of the wounds for the report. 8 X 10 full color images of damaged, stitched back together fat white d00d junk. Eewww!


----------



## Shyy (Jul 14, 2022)

Yeah, idiots exist as a warning to the rest of the us for a reason.


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 14, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Nope, not here. If you feel a need, PM me.


Was being facetious. We'd likely agree on the topic, if I had to hazard a guess on it.


----------



## Kope (Jul 14, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Was being facetious. We'd likely agree on the topic, if I had to hazard a guess on it.


Tbh I’d give up my gun if it even saved one child’s life but that’s just me


----------



## KimberVaile (Jul 14, 2022)

Kope said:


> Tbh I’d give up my gun if it even saved one child’s life but that’s just me


Man, you don't know when to quit, do you?


----------



## Kope (Jul 14, 2022)

KimberVaile said:


> Man, you don't know when to quit, do you?


I’ll quit when I die of a broken leg


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 14, 2022)

Kope said:


> I’ll quit when I die of a broken leg


So, horsieh-death?  Or would you prefer the Elmer Factory, and becoming glue?  Jello?
This went morbid, fast!
;-P


----------



## Kope (Jul 14, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> So, horsieh-death?  Or would you prefer the Elmer Factory, and becoming glue?  Jello?
> This went morbid, fast!
> ;-P


I’d love to be Jello it would probably feel cool


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jul 14, 2022)

My guns are bored.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 23, 2022)

Shyy said:


> View attachment 135282Cross chest rig


Papa's Ruger SuperRedHawk, in .44 magnum, is good 'nuff for ME, thx!
Kee-riste,,,, a .45-.70 hand cannon?...
(mah wrists are already complaining)


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 23, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> My guns are bored.


But are they chrome-lined?
Suppressed?
Buffered?
(I could go on forever, but won't...  'cause it's damned late/early in the morning, and I'm 'bout to imprint the QWERTY on mah forehead!)

;-)


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Nah, his are just plain-jane Melonite treated, probably- no super dooper CHF for him.
*grins in Creiger and Criterion*


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 23, 2022)

Melonite/tennifer is superior to chrome-lining imo.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Less chance of it being uneven or "spotty", at least.


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 23, 2022)

That and usually more accurate, as Chrome-lined barrels have to be over-bored during manufacturing to allow the chrome lining to bring it up to proper caliber dimensions.
Not to mention Melonited barrels treat the whole barrel inside and out, so you get the added benefit of the surface treatment for rust prevention throughout.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Actually, in this instance, CHF is referring to Cold Hammer Forged, not chrome lined. 
Yes, I do agree with you, regarding the extra involvement with doing chrome lining.


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 23, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Actually, in this instance, CHF is referring to Cold Hammer Forged, not chrome lined.
> Yes, I do agree with you, regarding the extra involvement with doing chrome lining.



Yup I already corrected before your reply xD.

Way too early in the morning and no coffee in me yet.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Wish that the site wasn't screwing with my being able to post pictures, again 

I would post up my C96...


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 23, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Wish that the site wasn't screwing with my being able to post pictures, again
> 
> I would post up my C96...



Huh, I see you can't imbed imagines anymore.
Lame.
You can always post it on Imgur if you have an account and link it here.

Btw have you ever seen a Chrome-lined shotgun barrel?lol


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

So, you bought one of those $199 "Cheetah" shotguns from Centirefire, as well?
Cool.
 Had to clean, basically remachine the bolt group before it would run. Was extremely rough


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 23, 2022)

Churchchill 12" tactical Turkish 870 clone, just seemed odd to me to chrome line a shotgun barrel.
Corrosion resistance I guess.


----------



## Kope (Jul 23, 2022)

Why can’t we have mass effect 1 guns already. Ammo is so expensive >_<


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Technology isn't publicly available. 
Yet


----------



## Kope (Jul 23, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Technology isn't publicly available.
> Yet


Hmm should w e storm Area 51 then


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 23, 2022)

I experienced slide bite for the first time today. Made a bit of a mess in the booth for the RSO to clean up...
....and my HSc jams a lot >_>


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Well, that bites...


I feel you, my friend. I have really thick paws, irl, and I constantly get slide bite from low bore handguns. I've actually got a rather thick scar between my thumb and index finger due to the multiple times I've been "bitten".


----------



## Kope (Jul 23, 2022)

I unjammed my dad's old gun by putting my finger in the slide to force the stuck magazine out and then it bit me.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 23, 2022)

Personally, that is where I would use a wooden dowel, soft vise jaws and some penetrating oil. Saves the fingers.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 24, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Well, that bites...
> 
> 
> I feel you, my friend. I have really thick paws, irl, and I constantly get slide bite from low bore handguns. I've actually got a rather thick scar between my thumb and index finger due to the multiple times I've been "bitten".


My thumb literally has a scar, from Papa's M1 Garand.  Yes, that sucker can (and will) BITE if you're not careful!  I earned this at the tender age of,,, 13, 14?  He DID teach/warn me about it, but, ya know, kids don't always remember such things, till they're reminded!
To this day, I always threaten to bury the thing every time I take it out and enjoy a day of shooting, if it does it again! (It knows I'm lying, but it makes ME feel better!)


----------



## Shyy (Jul 24, 2022)

Ah, yes... "Garand Thumb". Teaches you (maybe) to pay attention to the damn bolt, a little bit more... also, no farking way that anyone, including you, is going to hear that tiny little "ping" as the En Blanc clip ejects in the middle of a fire fight... especially at 100 yds...


----------



## Kope (Jul 24, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> My thumb literally has a scar, from Papa's M1 Garand.  Yes, that sucker can (and will) BITE if you're not careful!  I earned this at the tender age of,,, 13, 14?  He DID teach/warn me about it, but, ya know, kids don't always remember such things, till they're reminded!
> To this day, I always threaten to bury the thing every time I take it out and enjoy a day of shooting, if it does it again! (It knows I'm lying, but it makes ME feel better!)


Don’t you just push it down until it clicks?


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 24, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Ah, yes... "Garand Thumb". Teaches you (maybe) to pay attention to the damn bolt, a little bit more... also, no farking way that anyone, including you, is going to hear that tiny little "ping" as the En Blanc clip ejects in the middle of a fire fight... especially at 100 yds...


Well, to my own credit, I was literally quite young (and I'm not a hefty guy, so wasn't particularly strong, finger-wise, at that time!).
It was all my own fault, yes.  I just focused too damned hard seating the clip, and neglected to keep my thumb outta the way (the damned bolt USUALLY stays back, even once the clip is seated, and requires a good *SMACK* to send it home.  It's a sneaky little bastard that way!
;-)
Agreed about the *PING*.  I've rarely fired this thing w/o two levels of hearing protection, and no way'n hell could anyone shooting a full clip w/o that would hear the little 'Ping'!  (it does make for an interesting talking point, esp. amongst the clueless/ignorant!)
:-D


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 24, 2022)

Kope said:


> Don’t you just push it down until it clicks?


That's the text-book proceedure, yes.  Most of the time, once that clip is seated, the bolt WILL slam forward/home, which is why you learn to get your thumb outta the path!  Sometimes, it won't, and requires a firm *SMACK* to seat it.  Papa's is prone to sticking open.  Sometimes, however, it just wants to be a jerk?!


----------



## Kope (Jul 25, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> That's the text-book proceedure, yes.  Most of the time, once that clip is seated, the bolt WILL slam forward/home, which is why you learn to get your thumb outta the path!  Sometimes, it won't, and requires a firm *SMACK* to seat it.  Papa's is prone to sticking open.  Sometimes, however, it just wants to be a jerk?!


I’ve seen videos where they show how to do it


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 25, 2022)

Kope said:


> I’ve seen videos where they show how to do it


I hit it much harder.
Sorta like any drunk trying to hit on me at the bar! 
(Which is a major reason I no longer visit bars!)
;-)


----------



## Kope (Jul 26, 2022)

Why do I have an urge to buy more guns


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Jul 26, 2022)

Kope said:


> Why do I have an urge to buy more guns


Just remember, never buy more than one firearm at a time, unless you want the ATF to show up at your door, wanting to see your latest purchases. This purchase action will prompt the FFL dealer to fill out ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles. The ATF will only like to see them to ensure you didn't perform a "Straw Purchase" for another individual that cannot possess a firearm.

In all honesty, coming from a former LEO, don't prompt the AFT to show up at your door. They are not your friend, ever. They will not have a warrant and act like it's no big deal. Trust me, it is.


----------



## Kope (Jul 27, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Just remember, never buy more than one firearm at a time, unless you want the ATF to show up at your door, wanting to see your latest purchases. This purchase action will prompt the FFL dealer to fill out ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles. The ATF will only like to see them to ensure you didn't perform a "Straw Purchase" for another individual that cannot possess a firearm.
> 
> In all honesty, coming from a former LEO, don't prompt the AFT to show up at your door. They are not your friend, ever. They will not have a warrant and act like it's no big deal. Trust me, it is.


Makes sense thanks for the heads up would trading in a rifle (it grants you a discount) for another one count also?


----------



## AniwayasSong (Jul 27, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> Just remember, never buy more than one firearm at a time, unless you want the ATF to show up at your door, wanting to see your latest purchases. This purchase action will prompt the FFL dealer to fill out ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles. The ATF will only like to see them to ensure you didn't perform a "Straw Purchase" for another individual that cannot possess a firearm.
> 
> In all honesty, coming from a former LEO, don't prompt the AFT to show up at your door. They are not your friend, ever. They will not have a warrant and act like it's no big deal. Trust me, it is.


I just snipped my reply, because I know our illustrious FA OverSeers will hammer it (and me/my accnt.) for skirting into the forbidden subject(s) realm.  I even thought about sending you a PM, but then reconsidered, because I'm certain they watch those, too.


----------



## Kope (Jul 27, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> I just snipped my reply, because I know our illustrious FA OverSeers will hammer it (and me/my accnt.) for skirting into the forbidden subject(s) realm.  I even thought about sending you a PM, but then reconsidered, because I'm certain they watch those, too.


You can pm peeps whatever as long as you don’t conspire to kill atf members or something weird like that


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## Shyy (Jul 27, 2022)

Well, you're not wrong...


----------



## Kope (Jul 28, 2022)

Any guns better than an ar15 I could take to a blue state?


----------



## Shyy (Jul 29, 2022)

Large bore, straight shoulder cartridge lever style... 45-70 Gov't covers just about <anything> on the North American continent...


----------



## Kope (Jul 29, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Large bore, straight shoulder cartridge lever style... 45-70 Gov't covers just about <anything> on the North American continent...


Hmm that’s a good recommendation, but what about a bolt action?


----------



## Shyy (Jul 29, 2022)

Something in the .30 cal range, perhaps? I happen to have those covered in .308 and 30-06, as well as in 45-110.


----------



## Jazefex (Jul 29, 2022)

I want to own a pistol. I am all for gun rights ~libertarian wolf


----------



## Shyy (Jul 29, 2022)

So, what is stopping you? You're listing as old enough...


----------



## Kope (Jul 29, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Something in the .30 cal range, perhaps? I happen to have those covered in .308 and 30-06, as well as in 45-110.


I do wonder if it’s too slow compared to a semi auto, but I hear that some experts can get close to their firing rate


----------



## Shyy (Jul 30, 2022)

I would be interested in reading that particular statistic, as the function of the 2 extremely different designs do not allow a bolt gun to be nearly as fast, especially with the reloading. I am very, very quick with reloading my SKS, to the point where alot of people think I do "mag swaps". Nope, stripper clips and a <lot> of practice. Bolt guns, unless they use a detachable mag are, by nature, considerably slower.


----------



## Shyy (Jul 30, 2022)

That being said- Ruger and several other manufacturers DO offer bolt guns that accept detachable box mags.
However, even getting to 300 RPM is a hell of a challenge. My best is with a Savage, with 5 rd mags, and I can approach 250 RPM. Your average semi can be around 350-450 RPM, in the hands of someone well-versed on its useage.


----------



## Kope (Jul 31, 2022)

I think I’m gonna go with a 5.7 pistol it’s got the best penetration out of something that can be concealed in a holster


----------



## Kope (Jul 31, 2022)

I just hope my Tarus judge is allowed in New York lol


----------



## Shyy (Jul 31, 2022)

May whomever you pray to watch, protect you while you are there, my friend!


----------



## Borophagus Metropolis (Jul 31, 2022)

Kope said:


> I think I’m gonna go with a 5.7 pistol it’s got the best penetration out of something that can be concealed in a holster



Have you seen ammo prices, lately? Penetration doesn’t matter if you can’t afford to practice shooting.


----------



## Ramjet (Jul 31, 2022)

Gotta start rolling your own.


----------



## Kope (Jul 31, 2022)

Borophagus Metropolis said:


> Have you seen ammo prices, lately? Penetration doesn’t matter if you can’t afford to practice shooting.


Lol true


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Would a 22lr be a good concealed carry gun?


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> Would a 22lr be a good concealed carry gun?



No.

The main concern is rimfire ignition has a much higher failure rate then centerfire, and the power level is too low for reliable stopping force agaisnt a threat tbh.

If someone had to carry a .22lr (as an anything is better then nothing argument) I'd say go for a double action revolver.That way if you have a FTF, you could just pull the trigger again for the next round vs having to fumble with a slide to eject a failed round out of a semi in a life or death situation.

Just use your 9mm.


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> No.
> 
> The main concern is rimfire ignition has a much higher failure rate then centerfire, and the power level is too low for reliable stopping force agaisnt a threat tbh.
> 
> ...


Dang I really like the look of the Ruger mark 4 though


----------



## Shyy (Aug 2, 2022)

If you are wanting something to CC, I would recommend at least a 2 round capacity, minimum! (Has .45Colt 2 shot Derringer for those times) There are quite a few small frame, sub compact decent capacity choices out there. I have a Kel-Tec PF9, Skyy CPX2, Officer Model sized 1911, to name a few.


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Maybe I should get a 2011


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 2, 2022)

I've been known to pack a derringer in .44 Magnum. The Winchester 185gr hollow points (may no longer be made, I'm not sure)  are somewhat controllable. A derringer should be practiced with until it's an extension of your hand if you're going to carry one for CCW. Like, be able to center of mass at twenty feet accurate. Well, close enough to get their attention as the muzzle blast sets their hair on fire. The downside to an extremely short barrel is the muzzle flash.

As far as rimfire ammo being "Notoriously Prone" to misfire, I call BS. I've shot a full 525 economy box of .22lr with NO misfires. The misfires are not in the ammo, they are in the firearm. Honestly, you should only carry a DA revolver or a single action, exposed hammer semi-auto (Colt 1911 pattern or Browning High-Power or similar) for CCW. Any firearm should be thoroughly tested so you know what ammo it "Reliably" fires with no misfires, failure to feed, failure to eject, etc. .22lr is a little light on power as far as a defense piece but a .22 WMR has enough punch to be used. This would be in a wheelgun or one of the few semi-autos that fire the round. I have a Colt Trooper Mk III that is a dual cylinder .22lr/.22 WMR. After extensive shooting, it has never given me a misfire with good fodder. It really pinches the rim when you fire it and with good ammo, it's stone reliable. The downside is the 6" barrel. A 2.5" or 4" barrel clone (Taurus?) of that revolver would be an ideal carry weapon.


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> I've been known to pack a derringer in .44 Magnum. The Winchester 185gr hollow points (may no longer be made, I'm not sure)  are somewhat controllable. A derringer should be practiced with until it's an extension of your hand if you're going to carry one for CCW. Like, be able to center of mass at twenty feet accurate. Well, close enough to get their attention as the muzzle blast sets their hair on fire. The downside to an extremely short barrel is the muzzle flash.
> 
> As far as rimfire ammo being "Notoriously Prone" to misfire, I call BS. I've shot a full 525 economy box of .22lr with NO misfires. The misfires are not in the ammo, they are in the firearm. Honestly, you should only carry a DA revolver or a single action, exposed hammer semi-auto (Colt 1911 pattern or Browning High-Power or similar) for CCW. Any firearm should be thoroughly tested so you know what ammo it "Reliably" fires with no misfires, failure to feed, failure to eject, etc. .22lr is a little light on power as far as a defense piece but a .22 WMR has enough punch to be used. This would be in a wheelgun or one of the few semi-autos that fire the round. I have a Colt Trooper Mk III that is a dual cylinder .22lr/.22 WMR. After extensive shooting, it has never given me a misfire with good fodder. It really pinches the rim when you fire it and with good ammo, it's stone reliable. The downside is the 6" barrel. A 2.5" or 4" barrel clone (Taurus?) of that revolver would be an ideal carry weapon.


I agree with what you said here. Why exposed hammer for CCW as opposed to striker fired ones?


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 2, 2022)

Kellan Meig'h said:


> As far as rimfire ammo being "Notoriously Prone" to misfire, I call BS. I've shot a full 525 economy box of .22lr with NO misfires. The misfires are not in the ammo, they are in the firearm.


"Notoriously prone" and higher failure rate are two different things altogether.

The priming compound for rimfire is put in as a thick liquid that's distributed around the inside of the rim through centrifugal force.Sometimes that priming compound doesn't distribute evenly in the rim, all luck of the draw with QC.
I've had bulk boxes myself that have had 0 failure, and I've also had bulk  boxes with as high as 10 or so ftf's with the same brand.Not something I would wanna bet my life on when centerfire has a failure rate somewhere close to 1 in a million.

Although i agree with you if you’re dealing with excessively high failures, then the problem is most likely the gun itself (peened firing pin, weak striker spring, or excessively dirty gun ect)


----------



## Punji (Aug 2, 2022)

I maintain the best weapon for self-defence is one you're most comfortable with.

If you're comfortable with a specific model you'll be faster on the draw, faster to shoot, and more accurate. It could be a good idea to go down to a range and rent out a variety of potential models to see which one works best for you.

Ideally you'll know you like using it before you buy one.


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Punji said:


> I maintain the best weapon for self-defence is one you're most comfortable with.
> 
> If you're comfortable with a specific model you'll be faster on the draw, faster to shoot, and more accurate. It could be a good idea to go down to a range and rent out a variety of potential models to see which one works best for you.
> 
> Ideally you'll know you like using it before you buy one.


I know of no place that lets you rent guns


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

I just need a semi auto with an easy trigger and good capacity at this point


----------



## Punji (Aug 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> I know of no place that lets you rent guns


This is a fairly common feature of gun ranges, at least so here in Canada. Maybe you could check around on the websites of any nearby clubs or ranges?


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Punji said:


> This is a fairly common feature of gun ranges, at least so here in Canada. Maybe you could check around on the websites of any nearby clubs or ranges?


Maybe but America isn’t as cool as Canada so idk


----------



## Shyy (Aug 2, 2022)

Alot of ranges here in the states do the "rent before you buy" thing. And, alot of them will also give you around 30 minutes of free range time with a purchase, so that you can start to work on getting to know, be comfortable with your new to you firearm.


----------



## Shyy (Aug 2, 2022)

Of course, your state of residence might be an issue...


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

I guess so *becomes depressed*


----------



## Shyy (Aug 2, 2022)

My condolences, friend. *hugs*


----------



## Shyy (Aug 2, 2022)

Heck, the Volunteer State should have something friendly to offer you... Bud's gun shop down there is the second store in the chain, should be a mirror the one here in Kentucky. They have a rental rack for you to peruse...


----------



## Kope (Aug 2, 2022)

Shyy said:


> Heck, the Volunteer State should have something friendly to offer you... Bud's gun shop down there is the second store in the chain, should be a mirror the one here in Kentucky. They have a rental rack for you to peruse...


Buds gun shop huh


----------



## Regret (Aug 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> Maybe but America isn’t as cool as Canada so idk


Every gun shop with a range that I’ve been to across multiple states allows for rentals before purchase.


----------



## Shyy (Aug 2, 2022)

Yes. I tend to use them for "test drives" of something that has my attention, but, I'm not quite ready to "pull the trigger", if you will.


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (Aug 2, 2022)

Kope said:


> I just need a semi auto with an easy trigger and good capacity at this point


The S&W .380EZ has a slide that easier to rack than most and a decent trigger pull.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Aug 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I agree with what you said here. Why exposed hammer for CCW as opposed to striker fired ones?


I 'Liked' your comment, because I feel this is a very important question anyone who is thinking about conceal-carrying needs to be aware of, and then make as educated a decision as they can on it.
I've done both, and the reason I finally settled on exposed hammer over 'Inside/Hidden' options was simple-
With an exposed hammer, 'I' have the option of cocking the firearm before squeezing the trigger.  This allows me a far softer/easier trigger spring tension/pressure, and for me, I've found that greatly improves my accuracy.  In a IRL 'Life or Death' situation, I want my accuracy to be at its highest.
In both revolvers and semi-autos, this 'Cocking' method applies, but of course with revolvers, you then must re-cock the pistol to achieve the same trigger-pull, OR you're then going to have to manually 'Cock' the hammer/pistol back via the trigger alone, and THEN once it hits its 'Break point', it will fire. Again, I've always had the most trouble trying to rapid fire any revolver via trigger-pull solely, and being as accurate as I want to be. Yes, some folks have the skills/finger strength to manage this feat, and yes I am all the jealous because of mine own lack of it!  
With semi-autos, once you manually cock the hammer back, and then fire, the pistol automatically cycles the slide, re-cocks the pistol, and you're firing quickly with the same (easier) trigger-pull pressure.  That consistency matters to me, very, very much, which is why I choose to EDC semi-autos as my primary sidearm, and when I bent over/knelt down/kissed Govts.' ass/es to obtain their cute little 'CCP' bit of paper (ie CCP 'Permit'), also carried an ankle pistol, but THAT was a revolver, for absolute reliabilty in CQC (Close Quarter Combat) situations.  Semi's can be compromised if you're hand-to-hand, face-to-face with someone trying to cause you harm.  That semi MAY fire properly the first time, if you happen to have the muzzle pressed hard into the assailant's body, but the second time?  I'm not willing to risk my life on that chance.  Revolvers will function damn near always, even if the muzzle is being rammed hard into the body of another.
The single greatest argument I see for 'Conceal Hammer' pistols in CC situations is obvious-  that exposed hammer spur can be a problem with catching on clothing as you try to draw it.  Constant training and muscle memory will cure most of this, IMHO.

Hope this helps you/others?

Please, please, PLEASE, to all-  Train, train, train, and then train more!  Training/Practice is the one thing we can never get enough of, or become too good to never need!


----------



## AniwayasSong (Aug 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I know of no place that lets you rent guns


Sadly, there used to be many ranges that did so.
I saw ALL of California's Ranges, indoor and out, cease doing this.  What a shame.


----------



## Kope (Aug 3, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Sadly, there used to be many ranges that did so.
> I saw ALL of California's Ranges, indoor and out, cease doing this.  What a shame.


Hmm I wonder why


----------



## AniwayasSong (Aug 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> Hmm I wonder why


Politicians and their Judicial/Law Enfarcement cohorts, that choose to wipe their asses with our Constitution/Bill of Rights.

I just can't say it with more clarity.


----------



## Kope (Aug 3, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Politicians and their Judicial/Law Enfarcement cohorts, that choose to wipe their asses with our Constitution/Bill of Rights.
> 
> I just can't say it with more clarity.


Well none of us are a well regulated militia so idk about that


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Aug 3, 2022)

Please, neither of you start another 2nd Amendment argument. Just don't


----------



## Kope (Aug 3, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Please, neither of you start another 2nd Amendment argument. Just don't


 if words are banned then we’ll have to settle this the old fashioned way *cowboy music plays*


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Aug 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> if words are banned then we’ll have to settle this the old fashioned way *cowboy music plays*


----------



## Kope (Aug 3, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


>


I love that song


----------



## Zenoth (Aug 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I just need a semi auto with an easy trigger and good capacity at this point


I'd recommend a CZ P-01, or the D.  15+1 capacity, the omega varient of the 01 is DA , the first pull is a little tight but the subsequent SA shots the trigger is amazingly crisp.  Or if you don't mind .380 the Sig P238 is a great little pistol but it's capacity is a little low with 7 round mags being the highest count, but on the upside they take a colt mustang mag so you can get extras on the cheap.  Though with something like a Clinger or Henry's holster you can CC a full size pretty easily.


----------



## Zenoth (Aug 3, 2022)

Kope said:


> I just hope my Tarus judge is allowed in New York lol


Really depends on where in the state, Upstate probably, anywhere in or close to the City and nope you're sol there.  NY is not a firearms friendly state at all. 

As for finding shops with ranges that let you try before you buy, USCAA has a good search option for that. And there's good ol DuckDuckGo as well.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 3, 2022)

Good pews news:
-I think I solved my SKS-NR's feeding issue by taking the thing apart, cleaning and oiling it, putting it back together again, and loading the mag with brass-casing Norma ammo instead of rough steel-casing Red Army Standard.

-My new over-tensioned HSc magazine springs just arrived from Wolff, which should solve THAT gun's feeding issue.

-I'm having a Tokarev TX3 shipped to my FFL; pretty badass-looking pump-action shotgun styled after old trench guns.

Bad pews news:
-I just saw a "smart gun" for the first time, and it's an ugly, fragile-looking plastic abomination.
-The Chiappa Rhino isn't on the MA approved firearms list 
I'll probably just go for your generic S&W revolver.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Aug 4, 2022)

Kope said:


> Well none of us are a well regulated militia so idk about that


Speak for yerself, Cowboy!
;-)


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 4, 2022)

@AniwayasSong

I remember you mentioning you had a couple airguns, what'd ya got?

Lovin' this Diana 280, should've picked one up years ago just for the cheap practice alone.
Not a bad little pest getter either.


----------



## Kope (Aug 4, 2022)

How do you guys feel about shotguns as home defense weapons


----------



## ben909 (Aug 4, 2022)

depends of the pellet size, but they are usually good from what i have heard


----------



## Kope (Aug 4, 2022)

Hmm I’m just wondering if there is any practical application to having a .410 shotgun revolver lol. Maybe with buckshot slugs I’d do some damage.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Aug 4, 2022)

Shotguns are good because you're generally going to only need one shot (vs a handgun where two shots is the reccommended), and buckshot doesn't have the risk of penetrating through multiple walls and possibly injuring an innocent


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Aug 4, 2022)

Kope said:


> Hmm I’m just wondering if there is any practical application to having a .410 shotgun revolver lol. Maybe with buckshot slugs I’d do some damage.


Oml I didn't even know those were a thing. Thank you for enlightening me, that looks so cool


----------



## Kope (Aug 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Oml I didn't even know those were a thing. Thank you for enlightening me, that looks so cool


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 4, 2022)

The_Happiest_Husky said:


> Shotguns are good because you're generally going to only need one shot (vs a handgun where two shots is the reccommended), and buckshot doesn't have the risk of penetrating through multiple walls and possibly injuring an innocent


Eh, handguns are better for home defense because of the better accuracy and precision you have; a shotgun is more of an outdoor weapon that you don't want to use in tight spaces or if people you're not aiming at are nearby. Ricochet is also concern too in close quarters like hallways. 

If someone is unfamiliar with shotguns, they should stick to a handgun for their home defense needs.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Aug 4, 2022)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Eh, handguns are better for home defense because of the better accuracy and precision you have; a shotgun is more of an outdoor weapon that you don't want to use in tight spaces or if people you're not aiming at are nearby. Ricochet is also concern too in close quarters like hallways.
> 
> If someone is unfamiliar with shotguns, they should stick to a handgun for their home defense needs.


Fair point, thank you


----------



## Punji (Aug 4, 2022)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Eh, handguns are better for home defense because of the better accuracy and precision you have; a shotgun is more of an outdoor weapon that you don't want to use in tight spaces or if people you're not aiming at are nearby. Ricochet is also concern too in close quarters like hallways.
> 
> If someone is unfamiliar with shotguns, they should stick to a handgun for their home defense needs.


I have to disagree. Most people don't have large homes with large and expansive rooms or hallways where a pistol's accuracy over a shotgun would be impactful. Outdoor usage would depend on the model of the shotgun and type of ammunition, but I know I'd rather not have a shotgun at 20 meters over a pistol.

Some shotguns are also very compact and are arguably more practical in certain tight confinements as they are held at the shoulder compared to a pistol held at an arm's length. Personally speaking, I have long arms. Holding a compact tactical shotgun in a firing position is just a few centimetres shorter than the tip of my fingers in an outstretched hand. Therefore, a compact shotgun would have a shorter effective length than my extended arms holding a pistol of almost any length.

Furthermore, as Happiest Husky said one shell is often more than enough which cannot always be said of handguns. There is also something to be said of the potential intimidation factor of a shotgun, and the variety of less lethal ammunition types for shotguns to avoid unnecessarily killing an intruder, such as bean bag or rock salt shells. (Or more lethal, I guess).

The only real disadvantage for personal defence is the limitations of magazine size, but for the vast majority of situations even a single-barrelled break-action shotgun can be enough. Shells can be loaded directly into the chamber of many different models for second or shorter reloads.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 4, 2022)

The barrier penetration is similar with 00 buck out of a shotgun vs a .38/40/45 caliber bullet out a handgun (both are capable of going through many layers of interior drywall).So it'd come down to which ever someone is more comfortable with.
The shotgun would be easier for most new shooters to get on target, especially in a high stress scenario.


----------



## The_Happiest_Husky (Aug 4, 2022)

Worth mentioning that there's no all for all best option. It comes down to, what are you the most comfortable with, what will you be able to use most effectively in a life or death situation.
For me, that will always be a 9mm handgun or something right around that. Glocks, especially. Why? Because I have hundreds of hours of training with one. The amount of time I have spent doing self defense training with a handgun is many times more than the average police officer


----------



## ben909 (Aug 4, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> The barrier penetration is similar with 00 buck out of a shotgun vs a .38/40/45 caliber bullet out a handgun (both are capable of going through many layers of interior drywall).So it'd come down to which ever someone is more comfortable with.
> The shotgun would be easier for most new shooters to get on target, especially in a high stress scenario.


also matters were you are shooting from, more pellets is a risk in a city setting, while its probably to your advantage in a rural house

... does anyone know if there are fragementing or 'non penetrating' shotgun pellets?


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 4, 2022)

ben909 said:


> also matters were you are shooting from, more pellets is a risk in a city setting, while its probably to your advantage in a rural house
> 
> ... does anyone know if there are fragementing or 'non penetrating' shotgun pellets?



You won't get much spread from a shotgun at defensive range within a home setting where distance is going to be anywhere from 0-10yrds.

The only way you're going to prevent barrier penetration of interior walls (and even exterior walls) is if you fancy taking your chances with birdshot.


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 4, 2022)

Punji said:


> I have to disagree. Most people don't have large homes with large and expansive rooms or hallways where a pistol's accuracy over a shotgun would be impactful. Outdoor usage would depend on the model of the shotgun and type of ammunition, but I know I'd rather not have a shotgun at 20 meters over a pistol.
> 
> Some shotguns are also very compact and are arguably more practical in certain tight confinements as they are held at the shoulder compared to a pistol held at an arm's length. Personally speaking, I have long arms. Holding a compact tactical shotgun in a firing position is just a few centimetres shorter than the tip of my fingers in an outstretched hand. Therefore, a compact shotgun would have a shorter effective length than my extended arms holding a pistol of almost any length.
> 
> ...


Since most people don't have large homes ... shotguns are less desirable because handguns allow for more maneuverability and compact spaces have a higher chance of ricocheting shotgun shot. Furthermore, if you're experienced with handguns, you shouldn't have to extended your arms fully in every situation when aiming and shooting, which overrules what you about shotgun having a shorter radius. Plus, a handgun allows you fire multiple rounds, if necessary, quicker, generally. You also noted the ammunition issue, which isn't a concern with handguns. If I'm at the point where I'm drawing down on someone in self-defense, I'm not looking to have to worry about reloading or fishing out shells to load.

But accuracy matters as well too, especially when you live with other people in the home who may be in close proximity to the person you're shooting at. If you're experienced with the handgun you own, which if you own it you should be since it's a weapon that can kill people, then you should be able to put someone down with one, maybe two, shots.


----------



## Punji (Aug 4, 2022)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Since most people don't have large homes ... shotguns are less desirable because handguns allow for more maneuverability and compact spaces have a higher chance of ricocheting shotgun shot. Furthermore, if you're experienced with handguns, you shouldn't have to extended your arms fully in every situation when aiming and shooting, which overrules what you [said] about [shotguns] having a shorter radius. Plus, a handgun allows you fire multiple rounds, if necessary, quicker, generally. You also noted the ammunition issue, which isn't a concern with handguns. If I'm at the point where I'm drawing down on someone in self-defense, I'm not looking to have to worry about reloading or fishing out shells to load.
> 
> But accuracy matters as well too, especially when you live with other people in the home who may be in close proximity to the person you're shooting at. If you're experienced with the handgun you own, which if you own it you should be since it's a weapon that can kill people, then you should be able to put someone down with one, maybe two, shots.


A handgun must still be held outwards in front of the body to fire, even if one's arms aren't fully extended. The difference is not significant at best and the strongest firing stance will most often be with fully extended arms. This is also not a concern when firing from a defensive ambush position regardless. I've personally never had even a single pellet ricochet, they tend to stick into targets unless hitting solid steel.

I'm personally not _amazingly _experienced with shotguns but even I can cycle the pump very quickly while maintaining accuracy. I actually have a video of me doing exactly so shooting some clay pigeons! Regardless though, as stated "ideally" one shell will be enough anyway. Even a short-barrelled tactical shotgun isn't going to give a half-meter cone of pellets at the maximum length of a room unless it's loaded with birdshot.

Though once again as Happiest Husky said, the best option is going to be a personal choice. I only disagree with handguns being the defacto leader of home defence, as there are a number of legitimate legal options.


----------



## Kope (Aug 4, 2022)

Ok so how about a gun that shoots knives


----------



## Zenoth (Aug 5, 2022)

Youth shotguns can be decent for homes as they are shorter so not bad at maneuverability in smaller rooms. But situation and home size dictates what's best for you.


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 5, 2022)

Should I get an H&K USP 9mm before they close the market for handguns up here for good?


----------



## Kope (Aug 5, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> Should I get an H&K USP 9mm before they close the market for handguns up here for good?


HK make bomb proof guns right? Yeah I’d grab it if I had the money


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 5, 2022)

Sigh...I bought it...

Now I guess to see how long the transfer takes, huge backlog with everything going on.


----------



## Kope (Aug 5, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> Sigh...I bought it...
> 
> Now I guess to see how long the transfer takes, huge backlog with everything going on.


Do show pics when it gets home UwU


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 5, 2022)

Kope said:


> Do show pics when it gets home UwU



Will do ^w^


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 10, 2022)

I kinda want a nice, shiny, nickel-plated revolver, but that would throw off my collection aesthetic.


----------



## AniwayasSong (Aug 15, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> @AniwayasSong
> 
> I remember you mentioning you had a couple airguns, what'd ya got?
> 
> ...


Oh, wow!!!
I could've sworn I'd replied to your post, DAYS ago?!  (RL is quite hectic atm)
That's a LOVELY group, and beautiful looking rifle/optic!
Sadly, I'm not nearly so suave!  LOL  I had a beautiful Sheridan as a kid.  Sadly, it was stolen some years ago.  
I bought a 'Gamo' break-barrel contraption, and while ballistically it is pretty stout?  I HATE the insane trigger pull, and when it 'Cycles' it feels like a damned tank (that spring?  omgs...)  I hate it.
My usual arsenal in the pneumatics are just simple Crosman (two .177 pistols), and one Rifle that holds a hefty amount of BB's, or I can load pellets as desired.   No optics on any of them, but any squirrel/chipmunk/mouse inside 25-50' is going to rodent heaven, all day long!
My longest shot with the rifle was at a ground hog (think gopher on steroids), who decided our cow pasture was a good place to dig its burrows/holes (which are a bad combination with livestock and their legs/bones).  This little cretin was quite bold in spite of the ranch doggos trying to dislodge/chase him away, so I had to take matters into my own hands one afternoon.  He was perched at roughly 100' and I was already set up with my portable bench/table, waiting.   That olde Saying 'One shot, one kill?'   Yep.  He went down like a sack of potatoes, and I earned a 12 pack we had as his 'Wanted:  DEAD!' poster we'd agreed on to end his danger/threat.
I'd considered using my .22LR's (Two Marlins, two Ruger 10/22's, or pistols) options, but thought they wouldn't be necessary for this task, and why use them and then deal with the required tear-down/cleaning, after, for one shot?

I'm very intrigued with modern pneumatics, but don't want something that requires an external source (as so many of these pressurized models have, needing external pumps/tanks to refill).  I'm still looking, and that Diana has now caught my attention!


----------



## Ramjet (Aug 16, 2022)

AniwayasSong said:


> Oh, wow!!!
> I could've sworn I'd replied to your post, DAYS ago?!  (RL is quite hectic atm)
> That's a LOVELY group, and beautiful looking rifle/optic!
> Sadly, I'm not nearly so suave!  LOL  I had a beautiful Sheridan as a kid.  Sadly, it was stolen some years ago.
> ...



I've had a couple of those PCP's that require that external air source, you don't really need a tank or compressor, they do have hand pumps avaliable that will reach 200-250bar.
Really sucks the joy outta of it though, much prefer totally self contained where you just need a pack of pellets and some elbow grease to get going.


----------



## Ramjet (Sep 28, 2022)

Anyone wanna see my big black Koch?

I did promise Kope I'd post it once it came in (RIP)


----------



## Jarren (Sep 29, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> Anyone wanna see my big black Koch?
> 
> I did promise Kope I'd post it once it came in (RIP)


Hey, glad you snagged it before the sale ban. Also... I, like any good H&K fan, see what you did there. XD


----------



## Ramjet (Sep 29, 2022)

Jarren said:


> Hey, glad you snagged it before the sale ban. Also... I, like any good H&K fan, see what you did there. XD



I was waiting for someone to notice xD






H&K, because you suck and we hate you.
-_No Compromise _


----------



## Ramjet (Oct 2, 2022)

TyraWadman said:


> I don't understand the fascination with guns, but after using explosives in video games I can't deny the fun of kaboomies. And it would probably be really cool to try detonating something if I ever had the chance.
> 
> But everyone keeps telling me* 'That's ILLEGAL'. *>:c



It's not actually.


----------



## Shyy (Oct 2, 2022)

Yeah, binary explosives are actually legal to own, as AFT doesn't really start to crawl up your tail until you get past a certain quanity on hand. State level, well, <that> depends on your state, obviously. Kentucky doesn't give a fox- if you can "legally" own it from a federal point of view, enjoy!


----------



## Zenoth (Oct 3, 2022)

Ramjet said:


> It's not actually.


Tannerite is fun stuff.   As for the H&K, it's not a print error it's  "pristine german engeneering" ;3


----------



## Shyy (Oct 3, 2022)

137 lbs of T-rite made a jeep "get rite"...


----------



## Ramjet (Oct 4, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> Tannerite is fun stuff.   As for the H&K, it's not a print error it's  "pristine german engeneering" ;3


Insert "because you suck and we hate you" H&K copypasta xD


Shyy said:


> 137 lbs of T-rite made a jeep "get rite"...


It's super fun stuff, haven't set off any for ages though.


----------



## Shyy (Oct 4, 2022)

I tend to collect it, monthly...


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 19, 2022)

I just made a down payment on a Swiss K11 rifle. Looks great, but ammo could be tough to find.


----------



## Shyy (Dec 20, 2022)

Very nice. Ammoseek...


----------



## Punji (Dec 20, 2022)

Ammo in general can sometimes be hard to find, I don't envy the task of that one.

A local Canadian Tire I've stopped in a few times never has any ammo I want. Every time I'm in there for something I take a glance over their stocks and it's barren as can be. Shouldn't have to go to a Cabela's or a dedicated gun store just to grab some very common stuff!


----------



## Some Sergal (Dec 20, 2022)

I currently own a .357 revolver and a .22 pistol, as well as a .22 rifle. A couple years back I also used to have a .45 handgun, but sold it. I've shot various other calibers I don't own, like 5.56, 12 gauge (I really need to get a shotgun), whatever. Funny enough one of the weapons I'm the best shot with is a 7.62 rifle I don't even own.


----------



## Jarren (Dec 21, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I just made a down payment on a Swiss K11 rifle. Looks great, but ammo could be tough to find.


As a K11 owner, you won't regret it. Very nice rifles.
Also, NGL, despite not posting here often anymore, I'm gonna miss this place and this thread when it goes read only.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 21, 2022)

So glad this thread is gonna die with the site.

I hate guns so, so much.


----------



## Jarren (Dec 21, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> So glad this thread is gonna die with the site.
> 
> I hate guns so, so much.


Good for you. ^.=.^
They're very much not something everyone will enjoy or appreciate, so I can understand the distaste.
There are, and will be, plenty more threads and conversations and servers for the topic once this is gone, though. Just gonna miss my little hobbyists corner here.


----------



## redhusky (Dec 21, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> So glad this thread is gonna die with the site.
> 
> I hate guns so, so much.


As someone who almost needed to use one, I don't hate guns. What I DO hate are stupid people with guns.


----------



## Zenoth (Dec 21, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> So glad this thread is gonna die with the site.
> 
> I hate guns so, so much.


It's the Internet. Nobody ever forced you to read this thread. Save it for Twitter lol


----------



## Rimna (Dec 21, 2022)

Aw man, no more pew pew talk on a forum.

Where will I ever post scientific research like this


----------



## Servyl (Dec 21, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> So glad this thread is gonna die with the site.
> 
> I hate guns so, so much.


Well that one's thing we don't have in common.

Me? I love em xD


----------



## Yakamaru (Dec 21, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> So glad this thread is gonna die with the site.
> 
> I hate guns so, so much.


You are entitled to your opinion. The same way I am entitled to say how fucking stupid it is.


----------



## redhusky (Dec 21, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> It's the Internet. Nobody ever forced you to read this thread. Save it for Twitter lol





Yakamaru said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. The same way I am entitled to say how fucking stupid it is.


Aw, be nice! I'm standing my ground on this! >:I


----------



## Yakamaru (Dec 21, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Aw, be nice! I'm standing my ground on this! >:I


Ah, but I am. 

However, this is the equivalent of going to a car show and yelling "I HATE CARS!". You could like, I don't know, just not?


----------



## redhusky (Dec 21, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Ah, but I am.
> 
> However, this is the equivalent of going to a car show and yelling "I HATE CARS!". You could like, I don't know, just not?


I know but no need to get triggered over it!~


----------



## Yakamaru (Dec 21, 2022)

redhusky said:


> I know but no need to get triggered over it!~


Pffft. I see what you did there and I love it.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Aw, be nice! I'm standing my ground on this! >:I


The amount of people losing their shit over this is funny as hell. 

Sure not gotta miss these losers, either.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

Servyl said:


> Well that one's thing we don't have in common.
> 
> Me? I love em xD


Booooo! 

Knives are where it's at.

Sweet, sweet knives.


----------



## Regret (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> The amount of people losing their shit over this is funny as hell.
> 
> Sure not gotta miss these losers, either.


They are not "losing their shit" and it is quite obvious why some are disgruntled with you. Firstly, you come to thread sounding almost jovial that it will be shutdown along with these forums, the closure of which is sensitive for many members. Secondly, you posted on a thread about people who own and or at least interested in firearms only to state that you hate them. Why come here and state that, what purpose does that serve other than deliberately upset people? That would be the equivalent of going onto a thread about Marvel movies, certain genres of music, or a car thread just to say you are glad the thread will be closed with the forums and hate that other people find interest in things that you do not. Only to feign surprise that you are subject to some minor blow-back.

Come now, why stoop to this level on what is the last week of the forum?


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Booooo!
> 
> Knives are where it's at.
> 
> Sweet, sweet knives.


I'm more of blunt weapon myself person, really. Hammers and such have so many more uses outside of weaponry!


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Regret said:


> They are not "losing their shit" and it is quite obvious why some are disgruntled with you. Firstly, you come to thread sounding almost jovial that it will be shutdown along with these forums, the closure of which is sensitive for many members. Secondly, you posted on a thread about people who own and or at least interested in firearms only to state that you hate them. Why come here and state that, what purpose does that serve other than deliberately upset people? That would be the equivalent of going onto a thread about Marvel movies, certain genres of music, or a car thread just to say you are glad the thread will be closed with the forums and hate that other people find interest in things that you do not. Only to feign surprise that you are subject to some minor blow-back.
> 
> Come now, why stoop to this level on what is the last week of the forum?


We just deescalated this, don't keep it going. :/ 

So do you own any weapons yourself? If so, what kind?


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> I'm more of blunt weapon myself person, really. Hammers and such have so many more uses outside of weaponry!


Blunt weapons are good in a pinch but it takes a bit more effort to make the kill and it's hard to hide a hammer.

A knife, however is slick, easy to hide and just takes a few well placed slashes to get the job done.

They are VERY messy, though.


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Blunt weapons are good in a pinch but it takes a bit more effort to make the kill and it's hard to hide a hammer.
> 
> A knife, however is slick, easy to hide and just takes a few well placed slashes to get the job done.
> 
> *They are VERY messy, though.*


I guess they both are in some ways! X3


----------



## Rimna (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> So do you own any weapons yourself? If so, what kind?



Sorry if this wasn't addressed as a general question x3

I only own two airsoft replicas cos it's very difficult to get a firearm permit where I live. The replicas are of a Colt 1911 pistol and P90 special forces SMG.

If I could get firearms, I'd love to have a .45 pistol for sure, a desert eagle, an MP5, an AK47 and who knows... maybe a good shotgun, maybe an M4 AR of some sort... but honestly I prefer pistols cos if I were to use a gun, it'd be for target practice and not for self-defense.
There's something incredibly satisfying to pistols to me.


----------



## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

Does this count?


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Rimna said:


> Sorry if this wasn't addressed as a general question x3
> 
> I only own two airsoft replicas cos it's very difficult to get a firearm permit where I live. The replicas are of a Colt 1911 pistol and P90 special forces SMG.
> 
> ...


Impressive! I know my dad owned a 9 mm but I'm not sure if he still has it. At the most right now I have knife and used to own a taser. Despite what some people might feel, tasers must be treated as if they were a firearm even though they are not considered as such in my state. It's why inferred that I had one earlier. Nothing good will ever come from disrespecting a weapon.


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

ToddVixelle said:


> Does this count?


Yes.


----------



## Rimna (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Impressive! I know my dad owned a 9 mm but I'm not sure if he still has it. At the most right now I have knife and used to own a taser. Despite what some people might feel, tasers must be treated as if they were a firearm even though they are not considered as such in my state. It's why inferred that I had one earlier. Nothing good will ever come from disrespecting a weapon.



Hell I treat my airsoft replicas as if they're real firearms. It's not worth getting shot in the eye, nose or teeth with it by trying to be cool.


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Rimna said:


> Hell I treat my airsoft replicas as if they're real firearms. It's not worth getting shot in the eye, nose or teeth with it by trying to be cool.


Good for you! My dad and brother used to paintball and I saw some surprising injuries there. That's how I learned that sometimes "not nice people" put them in the freezer and shoot them at people later.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> I guess they both are in some ways! X3


True.

Killing people can get pretty messy depending on your weapon of choice. 

*But the blood is so good...*


----------



## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> True.
> 
> Killing people can get pretty messy depending on your weapon of choice.
> 
> *But the blood is so good...*


Typical serial killer, doesn't like guns because she can't roll-around in their blood.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

ToddVixelle said:


> Typical serial killer, doesn't like guns because she can't roll-around in their blood.


This one get's it.


----------



## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> This one get's it.


So brave, willing to kill, gut and bleed her enemies, without any fear of staining that brilliant white fur. I'm envious.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

ToddVixelle said:


> So brave, willing to kill, gut and bleed her enemies, without any fear of staining that brilliant white fur. I'm envious.


Nothing a nice, hot bath can't fix. Getting it out of the CARPET is the real struggle.

Besides: it's all worth it to taste that sweet, sweet blood. 

Absorb the power of your enemies.


----------



## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

This thread's getting dark! 





Yet, oddly intriguing at the same time....


----------



## Nexus Cabler (Dec 23, 2022)

Imagine walking in a thread to comment about how you hate guns and then talking like a serial killer. Way to show those gun enthusiasts who's really the hard core furry huh?  Seriously though, some of these things being said can have authorities visiting your door.

Think before you post this stuff.


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> This thread's getting dark!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's my MO.>;3


----------



## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> Imagine walking in a thread to comment about how you hate guns and then talking like a serial killer. Way to show those gun enthusiasts who's really the hard core furry huh?  Seriously though, some of these things being said can have authorities visiting your door.
> 
> Think before you post this stuff.


Homie, I've been posting this stuff since I got here and LONG before that.

I'm not actually threating anyone or going out killing people (as far as can be proven) so I'm fine.


----------



## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> Imagine walking in a thread to comment about how you hate guns and then talking like a serial killer. Way to show those gun enthusiasts who's really the hard core furry huh?  Seriously though, some of these things being said can have authorities visiting your door.
> 
> Think before you post this stuff.


Imagine taking the time to point it out.


----------



## Punji (Dec 23, 2022)




----------



## Nexus Cabler (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Homie, I've been posting this stuff since I got here and LONG before that.
> 
> I'm not actually threating anyone or going out killing people (as far as can be proven) so I'm fine.


Still, what you are saying can be interpreted as dangerous and there are lists people get put on for these things.



ToddVixelle said:


> Imagine taking the time to point it out.



It's a forum. People post a topic, read replies, and comment their thoughts.
Your reply would hold more ground on a twitter tweet, but I take it you are one of their friends, so I won't drag this out any further for the sake of the thread.


----------



## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> Still, what you are saying can be interpreted as dangerous and there are lists people get put on for these things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No worries hun, it's just nice to see how worked-up you got over it, also stating your point then walking away before others react is what children do.


----------



## Rimna (Dec 23, 2022)

This thing is a beauty


----------



## Nexus Cabler (Dec 23, 2022)

ToddVixelle said:


> No worries hun, it's just nice to see how worked-up you got over it, also stating your point then walking away before others react is what children do.


13-year-old tier reply right there.


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## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> 13-year-old tier reply right there.


My apologies, I thought you were leaving?


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> 13-year-old tier reply right there.


Come on, we just got past another spat. Don't flare it up again.

So what are your opinion weapons? Do you own any yourself?


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## ToddVixelle (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Come on, we just got past another spat. Don't flare it up again.
> 
> So what are your opinion weapons? Do you own any yourself?


I kinda want a Desert Eagle, but I heard the recoil might mess-up my wrist?


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

ToddVixelle said:


> I kinda want a Desert Eagle, but I heard the recoil might mess-up my wrist?


I depends on the weapon, I remember firing a pistol at a range years ago when I was a teen and my hand was kinda sore afterwards.


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Rimna said:


> This thing is a beauty


When I see things like this I am reminded of the beauty that is of engineering. <3


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## Nexus Cabler (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Come on, we just got past another spat. Don't flare it up again.
> 
> So what are your opinion weapons? Do you own any yourself?


Glock G20 I had a friend lend me after he upgraded. I also keep a Beretta A300 with a mediocre camo finish X3.


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

To elaborate more, it's all about the technology that "passively" goes into things like this that allows ordinary people to so easily use things like this. A TON of smart people poured so much time to make it accessible to average people. It doesn't even have to be guns. Just anything technical. Make senses?


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## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

Nexus Cabler said:


> Still, what you are saying can be interpreted as dangerous and there are lists people get put on for these things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With all the death threats being sent by half the internet on a daily bases, I highly doubt any cops are paying attention to whatever random thing I say on a soon to be dead furry site. I know you think I'm that important that I'm already on their radar and as flattering as it is, it's sadly not true and I'm someone that gave a real life death threat back in high school (long story short: I was play fighting with a kid back in high school while we waited for the bus and he got me in the nose by mistake. Is was very unintended and we got it all sorted out without too much damage done but in the heat of the moment I was *PISSED* and legit just yelled out in front of half the school that I was going to kill him. If the cops haven't put me on their watchlist after THAT than chances are no half kidding thing I say online is going to matter).

And btw, me and ToddVixelle have only talked like...this time so we're not friends (at least not prier to this thread): they are just a chill person that knows how to turn attention away from an argument.


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## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

ToddVixelle said:


> No worries hun, it's just nice to see how worked-up you got over it, also stating your point then walking away before others react is what children do.


I'ma miss you when this place is dead.XD


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Anyone else make "finger siege weapons" in the Boy Scouts or something similar? Erector sets and Popsicle sticks can be weapons of mass destruction one day!


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## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Anyone else make "finger siege weapons" in the Boy Scouts or something similar? Erector sets and Popsicle sticks can be weapons of mass destruction one day!


Do I look like someone that was ever in anything remotely close to that?XD


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Do I look like someone that was ever in anything remotely close to that?XD


I supposes it's more of a "boy thing". X3


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Do I look like someone that was ever in anything remotely close to that?XD


Perhaps these are more to your "girly" tastes! X3 






			https://www.amazon.com/Bubble-Machine-Gun-Launcher-Generation/dp/B09X1FL6MF?th=1
		















						2021 Newest Gatling Bubble Machine Gun Kids Automatic 15-Hole Huge Amount Gatling Bubble Maker Gun ,Strong Tightness, Children's Bubble Gun for Summer Outdoor Activities (Pink, 13.78 inch) - Newegg.com
					

Buy 2021 Newest Gatling Bubble Machine Gun Kids Automatic 15-Hole Huge Amount Gatling Bubble Maker Gun ,Strong Tightness, Children's Bubble Gun for Summer Outdoor Activities (Pink, 13.78 inch) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


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## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Perhaps these are more to your "girly" tastes! X3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excuse you: I'm non-binary (female leaning but still). 

I'm taking that bubble gun and clubbing you on the head with it until either it breaks or your skull does.>:.O


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Excuse you: I'm non-binary (female leaning but still).
> 
> *I'm taking that bubble gun and clubbing you on the head with it until either it breaks or your skull does.>:.O*


I told you blunt weapons were the way to go. ;3


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## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> I told you blunt weapons were the way to go. ;3


Still not as good as a knife.>:T


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Vanessa Howl said:


> Still not as good as a knife.>:T


Yet, look what the first you reached for first!~ X3


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## Vanessa Howl (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Yet, look what the first you reached for first!~ X3


That's just cause a real ninja can turn anything into a weapon.

I'd have used yo mama if she had been within range.>:T


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## Yakamaru (Dec 23, 2022)

Good idea to bring oversized cutlery to a yeet cannon boogaloo.


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## redhusky (Dec 23, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Good idea to bring oversized cutlery to a yeet cannon boogaloo.


It can be if you can dodge the first shot! Unless the operate has cutlery too!  
I suppose that'll make a fair fight and where's the fun in that, yes? :/


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## Punji (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Perhaps these are more to your "girly" tastes! X3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope Santa can make a last-minute request this year.


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## Zenoth (Dec 23, 2022)

Welp, to dust away the teenaged edgey cringe, have some good on topic videos to enjoy.  Mike Jones is an American Treasure, and a all around chill dude.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 23, 2022)

redhusky said:


> Perhaps these are more to your "girly" tastes! X3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay. I didn't see this until now but this looks fun to use at a party.


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## Zenoth (Dec 23, 2022)

Science


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## Zenoth (Dec 23, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Okay. I didn't see this until now but this looks fun to use at a party.


Broski those things are a blast at parties ^^  Put a little black light ink in the bubble mix and they are epic at raves too.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 23, 2022)

The bubbling Gatling gun is the first thing in this thread I actually want lol.


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## Punji (Dec 23, 2022)

Imagine walking around a corner at a party and just bubble-blasting someone.

Like one of those air cannons, except wet.


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## reptile logic (Dec 23, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> The bubbling Gatling gun is the first thing in this thread I actually want lol.


Yeah, but bump it up a notch. Hook up a propane hose to the air intake, and fire away at a line of sparklers.


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## Zenoth (Dec 23, 2022)

Punji said:


> Imagine walking around a corner at a party and just bubble-blasting someone.
> 
> Like one of those air cannons, except wet.


squirt guns filled with broken open glowstix are fun to. just avoid the eyes, that shit stings.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 23, 2022)

Zenoth said:


> Broski those things are a blast at parties ^^  Put a little black light ink in the bubble mix and they are epic at raves too.


I can only imagine. Looks fun


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## redhusky (Dec 24, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> The bubbling Gatling gun is the first thing in this thread I actually want lol.


And just in time for Christmas!~ :3


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## redhusky (Dec 24, 2022)

Punji said:


> Imagine walking around a corner at a party and just bubble-blasting someone.
> 
> Like one of those air cannons, except wet.


I just get TF2 "Meet the Heavy" flashbacks!


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## Punji (Dec 24, 2022)

redhusky said:


> I just get TF2 "Meet the Heavy" flashbacks!


I am heavy weapons guy. 

*Suffocatingly intense stream of bubbles*


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## Jarren (Dec 24, 2022)

Fallowfox said:


> The bubbling Gatling gun is the first thing in this thread I actually want lol.


Not gonna lie, I kinda want one too XD


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## Jarren (Dec 24, 2022)

I've got an RDB, I could build this....


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 31, 2022)

Jarren said:


> As a K11 owner, you won't regret it. Very nice rifles.
> Also, NGL, despite not posting here often anymore, I'm gonna miss this place and this thread when it goes read only.


Trying to find the ammunition for it seems like a pain in the ass, though. It's readily available online, but almost none of the online retailers will ship to my state. I may have to go to GunBroker to have it shipped to my FFL.


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## Jarren (Dec 31, 2022)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Trying to find the ammunition for it seems like a pain in the ass, though. It's readily available online, but almost none of the online retailers will ship to my state. I may have to go to GunBroker to have it shipped to my FFL.


Privi makes it, and you can sometimes find bricks of GP11 at gun shows. Just keep an eye out at whatever shops you frequent and you might stumble across some.


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