# Microsoft talks about retiring Windows and where to go from there



## ADF (Aug 4, 2008)

Link

To be honest I don't like the idea of not physically having the stuff I own; the idea of all my data being on some outsourced server somewhere that I have to rent doesn't appeal to me.

Granted this is all years off.


----------



## TheGreatCrusader (Aug 4, 2008)

It would REALLY be interesting if they threw their weight behind Linux like Dell has.


----------



## Rhainor (Aug 4, 2008)

ADF said:


> Link
> 
> To be honest I don't like the idea of not physically having the stuff I own; the idea of all my data being on some outsourced server somewhere that I have to rent doesn't appeal to me.
> 
> Granted this is all years off.


For once, we agree on something.

If MS decides to take the Windows train down the "providing a service instead of selling software" track, then this dragon is getting off at the Vista station (or maybe Windows 7) and staying there.


----------



## Pi (Aug 4, 2008)

This has come up since about 1996. Doubtful.

Also:


> To be honest I don't like the idea of not physically having the stuff I own; the idea of all my data being on some outsourced server somewhere that I have to rent doesn't appeal to me.



Do you use gmail at all? Oops.


----------



## WarMocK (Aug 4, 2008)

Well, if you don't want it, don't use it. They can't force you to use a PC without a drive where you can start/install an OS from (yet).
But it's not a surprise Microsoft behaves like that. Even now they behave as if you only rent their OS when you install Vista, the new OS generation they are talking about is just the logical consequence. That's why XP definitely was the last operating system I used from MS for a loong time. ;-)


----------



## Rhainor (Aug 4, 2008)

Pi said:


> Also:
> 
> Do you use gmail at all? Oops.


Not the same thing.  E-mail is stored on outside servers anyway, and has always been a service and not a purchased "item".  This is about, for example, MS Word switching from something you buy once, install to your comp, and never have to pay to use; to something that is installed on a MS server somewhere, an you pay just for access to it.


----------



## Pi (Aug 4, 2008)

Rhainor said:


> Not the same thing.  E-mail is stored on outside servers anyway, and has always been a service and not a purchased "item".



Oh.

```
pi@coffeehost:~ $ du -sh Maildir
557M Maildir
```



> This is about, for example, MS Word switching from something you buy once, install to your comp, and never have to pay to use; to something that is installed on a MS server somewhere, an you pay just for access to it.



Technically you do not own your copy of MS Word, just a license to it. This isn't that different. Right now, if MS decides to, they can disable copies that, say, don't do product activation. Oh wait.

in before someone brings up steam.


----------



## Grimfang (Aug 4, 2008)

ADF said:


> To be honest I don't like the idea of not physically having the stuff I own; the idea of all my data being on some outsourced server somewhere that I have to rent doesn't appeal to me.



Same. The connection between me and my hard drive is much, much more reliable than my internet connection to some server. Not to mention other concerns, like if you're info is private, or how secure it is... :/

I guess it's inevitable, but I could break down. Is there no other way? Jump drive? Email?

There'll probably be a new breed of hermits with this, and I'll be one of them... on my 15 year old computer, refusing to move on with the world, lol


----------



## Rhainor (Aug 4, 2008)

Pi said:


> Technically you do not own your copy of MS Word, just a license to it. This isn't that different. Right now, if MS decides to, they can disable copies that, say, don't do product activation. Oh wait.


No, I own a _licensed copy_, which is both.  I could very easily install it on a computer that has no internet connection with which to register it, and it would work fine.  Besides, I was only using Word as an example.

Unless I misread the article, this thread is talking about stuff where only the very core components of the OS are installed to the local machine, and _everything else_ in the OS is loaded off the internet.


----------



## net-cat (Aug 4, 2008)

The reason I offload my mail to an outside service is the same reason I _don't_ want to do it for Word and such.

Simple fact is, my internet connection is unreliable. If I hosted my own mail server and somebody tried to send me something during one of its numerous hiccups, I'd miss it. By the same token, if I were working on an online document and it went down for a couple of minutes...

(I do, however, periodically fetchmail everything out of my Gmail account.)

And I'm also not about to pay extortionate amounts of money for the privilege of working on my own computer from, say, an airport or a coffee shop. ($2-3 for an hour or two of WiFi? $10/day? Fuck that shit.)

If something doesn't need to be tied to an online service, the for fuck's sake _don't_ tie it to an online service. (Even Steam games generally have an "offline" mode...)


----------



## Rhainor (Aug 4, 2008)

net-cat said:


> By the same token, if I were working on an online document and it went down for a couple of minutes...


I would assume that even if the program was loaded from the 'net, it would continue to operate if the 'net connection was lost, at least for a time; and it would at least have the option to save your files locally.  The big issue is, what if you need to _start_ working on a project while your 'net connection is out?


----------



## WarMocK (Aug 4, 2008)

Rhainor said:


> Unless I misread the article, this thread is talking about stuff where only the very core components of the OS are installed to the local machine, and _everything else_ in the OS is loaded off the internet.


Which is very similar to the basic idea of gOS: a rather basic operating system on your PC, the tools you need are on a server. Simply logon to that server, start your apps, and you're ready to go.
If you are willing to sacrifice most of your privacy of course. ;-)


----------



## Pi (Aug 4, 2008)

I do this anyway, really. I've got accounts on a couple of servers, and various underpowered machines, and whenever I'm using, say, the Powerbook 1400, it's just an ssh terminal with the occasional web capability.


----------



## Xenofur (Aug 4, 2008)

And willing to deal with the latency inherent in transfers over the internet.


----------



## Monarq (Aug 4, 2008)

Naah. Windows will remain.

They'd probably just come up with a new name anyway.

Microsoft Viking anyone?


----------



## Eevee (Aug 4, 2008)

Rhainor said:


> E-mail is stored on outside servers anyway


I very deliberately run my own mail daemon so I know I have sole control over my mail.



Rhainor said:


> This is about, for example, MS Word switching from something you buy once, install to your comp, and never have to pay to use; to something that is installed on a MS server somewhere, an you pay just for access to it.


Until extremely recently, the Word format was undocumented and closed.  For all intents and purposes, you _did_ pay just to access your Word documents.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 4, 2008)

> I very deliberately run my own mail daemon so I know I have sole control over my mail.


You have unrestricted port 25 access, or do you just get fetchmail to download it from your ISP's mail server to your mailbox? If the latter, you're just adding a step to the normal routine (or, at least, what used to be normal). If the former... Wow. I wish my ISP would let me do that.


----------



## Pi (Aug 4, 2008)

ISPs that arbitrarily drop connections need to be shot.


----------



## net-cat (Aug 4, 2008)

More like, ISPs who've started to replace their copper networks with fiber networks and are neglecting their remaining copper networks need to be shot.

... in my case, anyway.


----------



## icehawk (Aug 4, 2008)

isn't this just a regurgitation of 'thin clients' and 'the network is the computer' (which themselves are rehashes of dumb terminals?)


----------



## net-cat (Aug 4, 2008)

icehawk said:


> isn't this just a regurgitation of 'thin clients' and 'the network is the computer' (which themselves are rehashes of dumb terminals?)


Mmm. Data General.


----------



## Eevee (Aug 5, 2008)

Runefox said:


> You have unrestricted port 25 access, or do you just get fetchmail to download it from your ISP's mail server to your mailbox?


Neither.  I have a dedicated server.


----------



## mctanuki (Aug 11, 2008)

People used to see it as odd to have all their information on one disc, instead of having a separate floppy for each program. People used to see it as odd to store email on a web server instead of on their home computer. It now seems odd to use the internet as a mainframe, with our PCs simply being workstations, all our files and programs being stored somewhere out in the Ã¦ther, and our computers being little more than input and outpu devices with a processor and RAM. But, in a couple decades, when the technology to do it is actually there, that will seem perfectly natural. Maybe the next step after that will be to move away from single server storage of your info to cloud storage, where pieces of your info are scattered among many different places in the world, only to be brought together when you want to access it, like some kind of insane evolution of Bit Torrent.

And as far as paying subscription fees and the like, companies always try to make as much money as they can, and this idea is no different. We just have to trust in the open-source community to keep them in check, by offering free alternatives to their for-pay programs. That way, as now, the corporations will have to compete by keeping customer cost low, and by making a better product.


----------



## WoulfeMaelstorme (Aug 11, 2008)

Well said and quite true with computer technology trends. My real concern with this, is the technology they will obviously peg to support this. It concerns me greatly that it really isn't there yet.


----------



## mctanuki (Aug 12, 2008)

Oh, it most definitely isn't. But, it's not that far off. All we need is far faster wireless broadband which is ubiquitous in most if not all places, and processors an order of magnitude faster than the current ones. That may sound like a tall order, but if you look back ten years, you see we've advanced at least that much in a decade, and will likely be there a decade from now.


----------



## Hollow-Dragon (Aug 17, 2008)

Personaly, I think Windows will be around for a long time to come.  If the Windows OS train would ever stop in my lifetime, I'd be using some pretty outdated computers in the future!  Since I can't stand Apple, especialy after the torture of the Mac osx and the overated iPod.  I'm not too big of a Linux fan either, they claim it to be a "Windows alternative" or so I've heard, personaly I think that's a load of BS.

So unless some new OS that blows everything out of the water, I'll stick with Windows.


----------



## Draco_2k (Aug 17, 2008)

What the?.. Is there ANY benefit to that kind of scheme AT ALL?..


----------



## ADF (Aug 17, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> What the?.. Is there ANY benefit to that kind of scheme AT ALL?..



There are a few user benefits, like being able to access your data anywhere, but it is more about shifting power away from the user and to the companies.

Imagine a world were storage is a service like FTP space is today, you have to keep paying a subscription to access it. Stop paying them and they essentially take away your HDD, with no obligation to keep hold of your data, so you have to keep paying.

Now apply that to all applications, were you rent software like MS office.


----------



## Draco_2k (Aug 17, 2008)

ADF said:


> There are a few user benefits, like being able to access your data anywhere, but it is more about shifting power away from the user and to the companies.
> 
> Imagine a world were storage is a service like FTP space is today, you have to keep paying a subscription to access it. Stop paying them and they essentially take away your HDD, with no obligation to keep hold of your data, so you have to keep paying.
> 
> Now apply that to all applications, were you rent software like MS office.


Fuuuuck.


----------



## ADF (Aug 17, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> Fuuuuck.


There was a rather scary video of Microsoft explaining what they wanted from this a while back, if they had their way they would be renting calendar features to the user. The video was removed from YouTube; but my rant thread on it is still here.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 17, 2008)

Hollow-Dragon said:


> Personaly, I think Windows will be around for a long time to come.  If the Windows OS train would ever stop in my lifetime, I'd be using some pretty outdated computers in the future!  Since I can't stand Apple, especialy after the torture of the Mac osx and the overated iPod.  I'm not too big of a Linux fan either, they claim it to be a "Windows alternative" or so I've heard, personaly I think that's a load of BS.
> 
> So unless some new OS that blows everything out of the water, I'll stick with Windows.


It is, of course, your choice what OS you use, and I'm all for choice, diversity and interoperability in the computing arena.  Personally, I respect your choice to stay with Windows.  But I ask you kindly, please don't bash an OS such as Linux without learning a little more than hear-say about it. I'm sure you would ask the same of Windows-bashers.  Thank you.

Linux fanboys who claim that Linux does unrealistic things such as run on Ginsu knives, OTOH, the kind who give everyday Linux users a bad name, deserve bashing, but not Linux itself because of them.


ADF said:


> There was a rather scary video of Microsoft explaining what they wanted from this a while back, if they had their way they would be renting calendar features to the user. The video was removed from YouTube; but my rant thread on it is still here.


With Windows Vista, Microsoft have already shown (if only by accident) what degree of power they are able to wield by moving computing "into the cloud."

Microsoft's Windows Genuine Advantage suffered a worldwide outage last August 24th, a Friday, causing every single Windows Vista system doing so much as touching Windows Update or WGA to declare itself pirated.  As a result, they went into "Reduced Functionality Mode." In some cases, the affected system reportedly went into non-genuine RFM, while in other cases, the affected system went into out-of-grace RFM instead.  Out-of-grace RFM is the worse of the two because nothing at all runs on log-in except IE (no desktop, no Start Menu, no taskbar), it points the user by default to a place to buy yet another key, and the entire session is killed after an hour.

When Microsoft finally got WGA working again, Windows Vista systems started validating themselves and returning to normal mode, but the damage was done and the point made. Microsoft accidentally told the world, "All your computer are belong to us."


----------



## Pi (Aug 17, 2008)

Hollow-Dragon said:


> So unless some new OS that blows everything out of the water, I'll stick with Windows.



They had this back in the day. It was called BeOS. They got the finger from Apple (documentation to make BeOS run on the G3 was cut off.), they got the dick from Microsoft and Dell (Dell wanted to offer BeOS as a dual-boot option until Microsoft said "Hey dell you do that and you'll become a single-boot company 'cause we'll yank your license"), they got a second deep-dicking from Palm (who bought them and promptly sat on the technology, doing nothing with it), a third from the people who bought Palm (Access sued a German distributor of a derivative copy of BeOS into oblivion), and they faded into obscurity.


----------



## Hollow-Dragon (Aug 18, 2008)

ArielMT said:


> It is, of course, your choice what OS you use, and I'm all for choice, diversity and interoperability in the computing arena. Personally, I respect your choice to stay with Windows. But I ask you kindly, please don't bash an OS such as Linux without learning a little more than hear-say about it. I'm sure you would ask the same of Windows-bashers. Thank you.


 

XD sorry


----------



## Runefox (Aug 19, 2008)

> It was called BeOS.


Where BeOS fell then,
another arises now,
by the name Haiku


----------



## Foamy (Aug 20, 2008)

"software is a means to an end, and not an end in itself"

How philosophical...


----------



## Eevee (Aug 22, 2008)

Hollow-Dragon said:


> Personaly, I think Windows will be around for a long time to come.  If the Windows OS train would ever stop in my lifetime, I'd be using some pretty outdated computers in the future!  Since I can't stand Apple, especialy after the torture of the Mac osx and the overated iPod.  I'm not too big of a Linux fan either, they claim it to be a "Windows alternative" or so I've heard, personaly I think that's a load of BS.
> 
> So unless some new OS that blows everything out of the water, I'll stick with Windows.


?!

I..  don't think you even understand what this thread is about.  _Microsoft_ is looking to replace Windows.  You know, Microsoft, the people who make Windows?  Yeah, them.  Why are you so attached to the Windows brand specifically that you would reject an attempt _by its creator_ to replace it with something new?

I don't understand the comments about OS X or Linux at all, either.  How is OS X torturous?  And how is it a load of BS for Linux to be called a Windows alternative?  Like it or hate it, Linux *is* an alternative to Windows by any definition you care to use.


----------

