# ALRIGHT EVERYONE! DEFINITION TIME!(please reply promptly!)



## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Alright.

I am doing a cultural research paper on Furries, considering they are a subculture. I have my first draft written, and tomorrow I need my second one done.

One thing that my "writing partner" asked for is a definition. This is what I need from you. This is a tall order, but I am sure you all can come up with very well-done definitions for me.

Playing around is okay, but realize that this is an assignment and I also need at least a few proper ideas!

How would you describe a Furry? Define what it is to be Furry for me.


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## Littlerock (Oct 30, 2011)

_*NO.*_


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Ermm...
What to say...

*Furry:* (_noun_) 1. Person who makes part of the furry fandom, which is a group of people that identify themselves as such and are joined by their enjoyment of anthropomorphic animals.

I wonder whether there are professional studies on furries.


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## ramsay_baggins (Oct 30, 2011)

You cannot get a definition that will be agreed upon.

The one that is used most often, and that I use, is "a fan of anthropomorphic animals".


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## Ames (Oct 30, 2011)

Furries are sick fucks who screw animals and dress up as disney characters at sex conventions.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Students that write stories about their uninteresting hobby.


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## Calemeyr (Oct 30, 2011)

WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?! Wahhhh! 

EDIT: wow, I wrote this as a snarky comment, but now I realise it _also_ applies to many furries in general! It's a win-win!


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## DW_ (Oct 30, 2011)

JamesB said:


> Furries are sick fucks who screw animals and dress up as disney characters at sex conventions.



hurr.


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## Sar (Oct 30, 2011)

I prescribe 300 hours of lurking to the op.


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## Aetius (Oct 30, 2011)

Please! No more of these threads!

My brain cannot handle these many beatings.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh, I have several hours of lurking under my belt, but I prefer to hear others opinions to a directly posed question, as is dictated by my assignment.

Thank you to the few who replied with some semblance of sincerity. My applause goes to you.


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## dinosaurdammit (Oct 30, 2011)

furries- whiny man children who beg for money, spend it on porn, the freeze to death complaining they are being fursecuted


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## Cyril (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrow, my advice:

Change your paper topic.

EDIT:





dinosaurdammit said:


> furries- whiny man children who beg for money, spend it on porn, the freeze to death complaining they are being fursecuted


Yeah Allan is a good case study for the average furry isn't he <_<


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## LizardKing (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh for fuck sake.

Just go learn how the search function works and bugger off.


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## dinosaurdammit (Oct 30, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Oh for fuck sake.
> 
> Just go learn how the search function works and bugger off.




That feature is more broken than my mental health ever since the update that thing refuses to work well with others


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## Volkodav (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh god, for real? Why couldn't you choose something else? ]:
You're gonna get called a dogfucker or "oneof those gross guys who fucks in suits" now at school


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## LizardKing (Oct 30, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> That feature is more broken than my mental health ever since the update that thing refuses to work well with others



You're just lacking in search-fu.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Oh god, for real? Why couldn't you choose something else? ]:
> You're gonna get called a dogfucker or "oneof those gross guys who fucks in suits" now at school



Really? Honestly, do you think I possibly care what others call me? It is the song of ignorance that makes me laugh, Clayton.


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## Evan of Phrygia (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Really? Honestly, do you think I possibly care what others call me? It is the song of ignorance that makes me laugh, Clayton.



So, are you making the implication that you are a troll?

If so, welcome home


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Nah. I just don't have a care in the world what others think of me.


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## Volkodav (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Really? Honestly, do you think I possibly care what others call me? It is the song of ignorance that makes me laugh, Clayton.



You're gonna care when you get alienated and possibly have your ass kicked because people *think* you're X, Y or Z.
Hell, kids have killed themselves because of bullying from people who think they're gay


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Nah. I just don't have a care in the world what others think of me.



Regardless, why are you interested in making this? Why not choose something more... fascinating, to put it lightly? What could possibly come out of this? 
We furries (sane furries) are rather shallow regarding our fandom's motivations and prefer to leave it as such. We just like anthros and are not fans of a medium with a clear evolution and history, unlike, say, hardcore gamers, anime fans, whoever is into the lifestyle proposed by a certain musical culture... in comparison to that, furries are like a woman who chooses ornaments for her house becuase they look pretty and has no ulterior aesthetical motivations to do so.


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## dinosaurdammit (Oct 30, 2011)

Why not do a report on the killing habits of south american orcas as that is much more "better" than furry.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Do I really sound that weak to you? Enough to kill myself? Don't judge like that. It's poor.

Those who alienate do so out of ignorance. That kind of ignorance is not welcome around me. I test people on this to see if they will annoy me with such ignorance, and decide if I want to be around them. It makes my choosing of those I hang out with much easier.

And really, I highly doubt some group of people will come to my college dorm and "kick my ass" just because I am a Furry and have said so to my Honors English class. Worst case people will leave me alone, how I like it.

(edit for all the ninja reply-ers up there)

AristÃ³crates Carranza, 
I do this simply because I can. It is something that interests me from both a psychological and artistic standpoint, and I have a lot to say about it. I could easily fill the 5 page requirement of the essay with it.

DinosaurDammit,
It's a cultural essay, dearie. XD http://forums.furaffinity.net/members/26306-AristÃ³crates-Carranza


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## Evan of Phrygia (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Nah. I just don't have a care in the world what others think of me.



Well, I mean just hold off on the furs though. It's some ugly stuff if you go for the darker, more interesting side of furs.

The burned furs versus most furries for instance. 

Just don't explore something so brightly divided between hobby and morphed fetishism/the persecutors of that fetishism. it's not a culture you want to interpret.
Aristocrates probably phrased it better than me.



			
				Sparrowkin said:
			
		

> *Do I really sound that weak to you? Enough to kill myself? Don't judge like that. It's poor.*


You disgust me. That alone was enough to make me hate you.





> Those who alienate do so out of ignorance. That kind of ignorance is not welcome around me. I test people on this to see if they will annoy me with such ignorance, and decide if I want to be around them. It makes my choosing of those I hang out with much easier.
> 
> And really, I highly doubt some group of people will come to my college dorm and "kick my ass" just because I am a Furry and have said so to my Honors English class. Worst case people will leave me alone, how I like it.



I'm really not sure how to react to your logic, because in some ways it is twisted, yet in some ways it is mildly realistic.


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## Volkodav (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Do I really sound that weak to you? Enough to kill myself? Don't judge like that. It's poor.
> 
> Those who alienate do so out of ignorance. That kind of ignorance is not welcome around me. I test people on this to see if they will annoy me with such ignorance, and decide if I want to be around them. It makes my choosing of those I hang out with much easier.
> 
> And really, I highly doubt some group of people will come to my college dorm and "kick my ass" just because I am a Furry and have said so to my Honors English class. Worst case people will leave me alone, how I like it.


Okay enjoy having your ass kicked because you're desperate to educated the IGNORANT MASSES HURRR about your precious fucking furry fandom.

When you end up being called a dogfucker, come back here, grovel at my feet and let me know, so I can sit here and rub my nipples about how right I am like usual.


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## Heliophobic (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Alright.
> 
> I am doing a cultural research paper on Furr-



Alright. Troll thread. Move along, people. Nothing to see here.


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## Tomias_Redford (Oct 30, 2011)

K well, how about instead of getting us to do your homework for you, you actually go and research, and whatnot yourself?  

Just sayin...


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Tides, I wish you could meet my significant other. His logic... it is like mine but a little more apathetic. Hating me is okay with me, and usually I respond with "Join the club!"

Clayton, I will not come crying to you and groveling! I have had others do so to me, and it is quite demeaning to watch. I have to wonder how demeaning it would be to do so? So go rub yourself anyways, just for fun.

(edit) This is part of my research, Tomias. A small part.


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## Tomias_Redford (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Clayton, I will not come crying to you and groveling! I have had others do so to me, and it is quite demeaning to watch. I have to wonder how demeaning it would be to do so? So go rub yourself anyways, just for fun.
> 
> (edit) This is part of my research, Tomias. A small part.



Don't you say a fucking bad word about Clayton...only forum regulars and cool people can take the piss out of him...not newbies like you.

Also, by research I meant a little more than going onto a forum and asking for the answer.  Hell dude, if you wanted to do that, just go onto Yahoo Answers and ask there or something.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh! *slaps her own hand* Shame on me! 

I have a shitload of research other than this, as I said before. And really, I am glad I asked on here, too.


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## DW_ (Oct 30, 2011)

Tomias_Redford said:


> Don't you say a fucking bad word about Clayton...only forum regulars and cool people can take the piss out of him...not newbies like you.
> 
> Also, by research I meant a little more than going onto a forum and asking for the answer.  Hell dude, if you wanted to do that, just go onto Yahoo Answers and ask there or something.



LOL Yahoo Answers.

OP'd probably get just as much trolling there as here.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

I get more prompt replies and trollings on here too.


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 30, 2011)

What you should take from this discussion, Sparrowkin, is that we get a lot of these kinds of threads here ("I'm doing a paper/survey/research project/presentation about furries..."), and people are quite tired of them.  So don't take any personal offense to peoples' reactions.
Anyway, maybe explain why you want a definition from us here instead of just picking it off Wikipedia?  It's not exactly a philosophical topic.


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## Cyril (Oct 30, 2011)

The only possible troll in this thread is you, OP, so please, come again. I love this sort of entertainment :3


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

I understand, M. Le Renard. I got that from the beginning, and take no offense. Actually, I am enjoying myself with this one. My heart-rate and my happiness have gone up, even though I currently have a migraine. Y'all have made me a happy person.

I thought it might be clear from my original post that I would like a definition for my essay. The "writing partner" who edited the essay still does not have a definitive idea of what a Furry is. It seems that this culture is very difficult to define, and from that I receive little nips in the rear from those who hop on and reply here. 

What I take away from this thread is that Furries have a distinct dislike of being defined, as does every other culture. Heh, I seem to be taking philosophy out of nothing again! 

I am here to hear something "from the horse's mouth." I guess the horse wishes  to bite me instead XD

(edit) Cyril, I would happily become entertainment. *bow*


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:
			
		

> What I take away from this thread is that Furries have a distinct dislike of being defined, as does every other culture.


Not so much that we don't like being defined as that the definition seems plain obvious to us.  I would define a gamer as someone who plays video games and gets involved in gaming communities.  I would define a furry as someone who likes anthropomorphic animals and gets involved in communities that center around those.  The only real difference between us and other fandoms is that we generate most of our own content.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

You make me smile without sadistic undertone, M. Le Renard. Thank you for the definition. It is in simple enough terms for those who are ignorant to understand. *sigh* so much work for a definition! You all are going to teach me a lot of things! 

I think I will like it here.


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## Volkodav (Oct 30, 2011)

You're not going to get a definition here, it's best to get out of the forums.

_Or I will release the Deovaccus_


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

*points up* please read the nice things M. Le Renard wrote for me. Thank you.


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## Volkodav (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> *points up* please read the nice things M. Le Renard wrote for me. Thank you.


I'm assuming you're pointing at "a person who likes animals a lot"

you couldnt think of that yourself? sweet jesus ballsuckin christ


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Proving I could get a definition out of you all, no matter how many teeth I had to pull.


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## Aidy (Oct 30, 2011)

why would you write a paper on furries anyway


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Post paper on this forum. So many crazies write about the fandom for school, but they never post the paper. I DEMAND YOUR FIRST DRAFT OP


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

XD I will post the final copy for you all to rip apart as if you all had rabies. I promise. Gotta feed y'all with something.


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> XD I will post the final copy for you all to rip apart as if you all had rabies. I promise. Gotta feed y'all with something.


That's what they all say :\ All of them lie like dirty liars.


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm supposed to be nice.  I'm a moderator.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Why the fuck should we do your homework for you? And if you use any words, I demand you cite us in proper MLA format. I'd like to be listed as "FoxCocks McLickerDicks" as my formal name in your works cited. I hope your teacher also reads your works cited page.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry, Deo. I don't have to have such a page. But I will properly cite everyone in my paper anyway by their Forum name. 

No, Conker, I am not lying to you. It will be posted. Cross my heart and prepare for my imminent doom when I do post it.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> _Or I will release the Deovaccus_


*Ooh I got chills.*




Anyways,  why the fuck are you writing on furries? We're not a culture, a  subculture or anything of the sort. We're a loose almagamation of people  with varying levels of interest in talking animals. WOOOP DE FUCKIN  DOO. Try writing a paper on that. _There are these nerds, *on the internet*, and they may or may not like animal headed people!_  Anyways, coming into our forum and DEMANDING that we supply you with a  definition you should be writing yourself (oh plagiarism!) in a short  timeline? Yeah, you're not very good at this whole culture thing are  you? Because you just ostracized all of us in one big pull asshole. HEY  YOU STRANGE PEOPLE I AM WRITING ABOUT, DEFINE YOURSELVES IMMEDIATELY FOR  ME SO THAT I HAVE LESS EFFORT TO EXPEND! ASAP 

Smarmy entitled  egotistical little fucker aren't cha? Fuck off, write your paper if you  want, and I hope to god you get the social beat down of a lifetime in  the laughter and contempt from your peers and teachers. 


You don't have to have a works cited page? Bull fucking shit. No educational paper written outside of fourth grade forgoes your research citations. Bull fucking shit you goddamn liar. Either you have the worst education in the western hemisphere or you're blowing smoke out of your ass.



Sparrowkin said:


> Sorry, Deo. I don't have to have such a page.  But I will properly cite everyone in my paper anyway by their Forum  name.


No, you will cite me as I've asked you to or you won't use my words at all motherfucker. Quid pro Quo, Clarisse.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Deo said:


> Why the fuck should we do your homework for you? And if you use any words, I demand you cite us in proper MLA format. I'd like to be listed as "FoxCocks McLickerDicks" as my formal name in your works cited. I hope your teacher also reads your works cited page.


Oh! Oh!

McLickerDicks, FoxCocks. "ALRIGHT EVERYONE! DEFINITION TIME! (please reply promptly!)." Furaffinity Forums. VBulletin Boards. 30 oct. 2011 <http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/109543-ALRIGHT-EVERYONE!-DEFINITION-TIME!(please-reply-promptly!)?p=2730753&viewfull=1#post2730753>


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## Ad Hoc (Oct 30, 2011)

Doing a report on furries is not unlike doing a report on anime fans, Trekkies, Whovians, etc., It's just kind of boring and about as ambitious as shooting fish in a barrel. You'd have to be damn clever to make it work at all.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Oh! Oh!
> 
> McLickerDicks, FoxCocks. "ALRIGHT EVERYONE! DEFINITION TIME! (please reply promptly!)." Furaffinity Forums. VBulletin Boards. 30 oct. 2011 <http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/109543-ALRIGHT-EVERYONE!-DEFINITION-TIME!(please-reply-promptly!)?p=2730753&viewfull=1#post2730753>



You get a cookie. This, dear OP, is MLA. Bask in it's properly cited glory. Isn't it lovely? You'll be laughed and flunked if you don't do this.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

I didn't lie, Deo. No formal works cited page is required. It's the beauty of my class. My professor hates going through and reading all the crap so she allows us to forego the process.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Do I really sound that weak to you? Don't judge like that. It's poor.
> 
> I test people on this to see if they will annoy me  with such ignorance, and decide if I want to be around them.
> 
> It's a cultural essay, *dearie. *XD


Lesson one of learning about cultures and anthropological field studies amongst the peoples you intend to study:
*DON'T PATRONIZE THEM, ASSHAT*



Sparrowkin said:


> my college


Have fun failing your essay due to plagiarism and a lack of a proper MLA works cited page. I hope you don't fail the class. But you probably will. As people have not yet found a cure for stupidity.

NO college or university worth half its salt would forgo the works cited page. I call major bullshit. That or your "college" is a scam. Poor you. Big kyoo kyoo, QQ, sob sob, cries, ;~;


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Sorry, Deo. I don't have to have such a page. But I will properly cite everyone in my paper anyway by their Forum name.
> 
> No, Conker, I am not lying to you. It will be posted. Cross my heart and prepare for my imminent doom when I do post it.


Since history repeats itself, by the time this thread has ended, you'll no longer be using the forum :\ 

Post what you have now. Hell, most of us are pretty smart, or smarter than we act usually, and we could even offer help.

Or I just want to see if a paper on the furry forum is as shitty as it sounds. But you claim Honors English. 

This really all boils down to PIX OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN since all the claims of you being a troll are fairly sound. Your "no works cited page" also screams bullshit.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/members/26306-AristÃ³crates-Carranza*


			
				AristÃ³crates Carranza[/B said:
			
		


			]


 McLickerDicks, FoxCocks. "ALRIGHT EVERYONE! DEFINITION TIME! (please reply promptly!)." Furaffinity Forums.  VBulletin Boards. 30 oct. 2011  <http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/109543-ALRIGHT-EVERYONE!-DEFINITION-TIME!(please-reply-promptly!)?p=2730753&viewfull=1#post2730753>
		
Click to expand...

I think the newest MLA guidebook says to use italics instead of underlines now, and having a URL is now optional. Though I suppose in the case of citing a forum, one should be used. Hmm. Depends on the professor.*


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> I didn't lie, Deo. No formal works cited page is required. It's the beauty of my class. My professor hates going through and reading all the crap so she allows us to forego the process.



Ah, too bad, I wanted to see myself cited in your bibliography :V

Listen to Deo, colleges tend to be very strict about citing. In some (like mine), you may even be expulsed.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Listen to Deo, colleges tend to be  very strict about citing. In some (like mine), you may even be  expulsed.


You will fail, and or be expelled and possibly black listed from other higher education places. Have fun OP. Use protection. :y

And besides, if you use us as a font of knowledge and we specifically through written request demand you properly cite us, you must. That's how the real world works, and you're in college now so put your big boy pants on.

Again, Quid Pro Quo Clarisse. You want our words, we want the proper and full establishment of ownership and full disclosure of our intellectual property through full works cited and proper quotation according to the MLA standard.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Deo said:


> Lesson one of learning about cultures and anthropological field studies amongst the peoples you intend to study:
> *DON'T PATRONIZE THEM, ASSHAT*



And I combat you with this:

When someone decides to write something trying to clear up the misconceptions of your culture, don't decide to attack them and re-affirm the stereotypes they are trying to snuff out or separate.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Conker said:


> I think the newest MLA guidebook says to use italics instead of underlines now, and having a URL is now optional. Though I suppose in the case of citing a forum, one should be used. Hmm. Depends on the professor.



I don't know, that's what my guide says for web pages and databases. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the MLA changed too often.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Hey I just remembered I have a Turnitin account. I will be checking the words in this forum for your paper on there OP to keep you honest. If I find you plagiarized us or used our words without citation I'll be in contact with your professor. :3c


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## Aidy (Oct 30, 2011)

this thread makes me wish i wrote about furries for my english literature exam :v


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Conker said:


> Since history repeats itself, by the time this thread has ended, you'll no longer be using the forum :\
> 
> Post what you have now. Hell, most of us are pretty smart, or smarter than we act usually, and we could even offer help.
> 
> ...


*

MLA has been pushing for an italics over underline format. Underline was a system used with typewriters. So you'll find a fair number of people that prefer italics over underline now that typewriters are out of the picture. 

Now guys, don't get too angry with the OP. A person can literally write a paper about anything. I mean hell, I wrote a paper on left 4 dead and anonymous and did research on it, and only half of you think I'm retarded. It can be done. It's just mostly those that need a forum to help them do not have enough foundation to make it interesting. 

The biggest red flag OP is that you can't define what you are talking about on your own. That is step 1. Any decent writer should be able to define the terms they are using in a paper, that is the first thing you do, otherwise the paper is relatively useless because it is unclear to the reader what you're going on about. 
this is the same thing as clearly stating a thesis in the first page. 

Honestly I don't really care that it's an honors english class. I've been there and done that and it doesn't impress me. If you're writing a five page paper without a works cited page then it's nothing to really be proud of and calling people ignorant over. 

If you really want help then I suggest posting your draft because I promise you there's a fair number of people here that know how to write and know how to work at a level much higher than one that you are currently working with. It might not seem like it, but there are a lot of intelligent people here that could help you turn a furry paper into something decent and interesting.*


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## Aidy (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> help you turn a furry paper into something decent and interesting.



Would that really happen, though?


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V:
My only issue is that this is the second draft I am writing and it is not in any way presentable, especially to those on here who are posting most of the stuff in this particular thread and would likely only troll me rather than offering help. Hence why I wished to wait until the final paper is finished before throwing it and myself to the dogs.


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## Aidy (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> especially to those on here who are posting most of the stuff in this particular thread and would likely only troll me rather than offering help.



You surely must have seen it coming, you're asking a bunch of furries to define furries, and that you're writing a paper on furries. :|


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## Cyril (Oct 30, 2011)

*grabs popcorn*

Man, this troll is REALLY hungry, guys. I wanna see what he'll do next.


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 30, 2011)

Honestly, what people should be asking about on forums like these is where to find resources about the fandom that are legitimate.  I know I only ever see anything about furries on entertainment TV shows or in popular magazines with no academic value.  I feel like, given the current resources on the subject, the only decent paper one might write about the fandom is either a personalized essay about one's own involvement, a journalistic approach gleaned from various interviews, or something really off the wall, like applying Freudian psychoanalysis or modern biological theories to the physical attraction to canine genitalia.  But certainly not a _research_ paper about the fandom.
So in the end, I think people who attempt this sort of thing run into the same brick wall, so they come here for help.  I guess it's okay for an undergraduate honors English class that doesn't even require citing sources (and if you really don't have to cite sources, I question the value of the education you're getting out of this 'honors' class), but not much else.


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Fay V:
> My only issue is that this is the second draft I am writing and it is not in any way presentable, especially to those on here who are posting most of the stuff in this particular thread and would likely only troll me rather than offering help. Hence why I wished to wait until the final paper is finished before throwing it and myself to the dogs.


Those of us capable of offering help know the drafting process and that a second draft is in no way a finished piece of work. That doesn't mean we can't offer anything for you, or just gauge your writing level by it. 



			
				aristoas;ldfiqpoi4u said:
			
		

> I don't know, that's what my guide says for web pages and databases.  Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the MLA changed too often.


They release a new one every year. My old department chair would get a woody when it was that time of year, and then he'd start telling us that we'd need the new guide next year. I never bought any of the newer ones though; I think mine is from 2009.


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## Aetius (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Sorry, Deo. I don't have to have such a page. But I will properly cite everyone in my paper anyway by their Forum name.



Yay! I am going to be a popufur! :V


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Fay V:
> My only issue is that this is the second draft I am writing and it is not in any way presentable, especially to those on here who are posting most of the stuff in this particular thread and would likely only troll me rather than offering help. Hence why I wished to wait until the final paper is finished before throwing it and myself to the dogs.


Why wait until it is finished and your points are docked before getting help and fixing it? That's sort of like saying "Oh, doctor, you can set my broken leg after it heals wrong". Fixing something after you've "finished" it won't help you at all.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

*hangs head* I admit it, I expected it.  I think I managed to write something to that effect in my original post. 

Lemme throw out a bunch of excuses before I give you the scrap of the paper I have typed so far and an email address to contact me at for your suggestions on how to edit portions of it. Yeah, contact me by email. That sounds nice.

I haven't even gone through to format it yet, guys. That is how unfinished it is. I have not finished writing it yet. It sounds like shit because I have not re-written the portions of it that I read and found terribly below-par for the level of English that I am at.

Email: for_two_lifetimes@yahoo.com.

By the way, would it be more appropriate to just paste it here or in a different thread?


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## Aetius (Oct 30, 2011)

OP, just to make your life easier why don't you just make your research  paper about an actual interesting culture so you don't have to deal with  this? 
Let me help you out there by giving you some examples of REAL cultures: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_cultures#Mesoamerica

Your grade will thank me.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Crusader Mike, 

Simply because I don't wanna.

 I thrive on this stuff, this criticism.... my personality is warring with itself on whether to embrace you guys and your bullcrap or to be scared of what you all will say.


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## Aetius (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Crusader Mike,
> 
> Simply because I don't wanna.


Have fun failing.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Don't worry about it. I know the drafting process. In fact if I were to show someone my first draft of my thesis I'd lose all credibility in anything, ever. 
We're not expecting the work of a Nobel laureate. It's a five page paper without citations. That's a bit like expecting great architecture out of legos. 

However it is always more helpful to get major problems dealt with early so you can spend later drafts working with words and style to present the best paper. 

The best thing to do would be to upload to google docs and just post a link to us.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Thank you, Fay V.

*throws self off bridge*

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t7lO4X1LwJvxTGQZCcmMTt_GYzYleCOjXCbjx4LN19k/edit

Advanced thanks for the help. Tell me if the link is faulty so I can fix that.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Simply because I don't wanna.


How fitting of your claims to intelligence. à² _à² 



Sparrowkin said:


> I thrive on this stuff, this criticism.... my personality is warring with itself on whether to embrace you guys and your bullcrap or to be scared of what you all will say.


So you're a masochist when it comes to academic failure? Good luck with that _AntinoÃ¶s._


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

.... there are people writing about "procrastinators" as a culture.... 

and I have no idea what the most unintelligent person in our class is writing about.... she tried to defend Justin Bieber to everyone last week, so I am scared.


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## Aidy (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> she tried to defend Justin Bieber to everyone last week, so I am scared.



In a cultural paper?


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

In a discussion of respectable people. I fear her cultural paper for that reason alone.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

I love how Google docs allows comments.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

.... I don't care if that was sarcasm, Deo.... I kinda like this. But by saying it, you would be more inclined to ruin it for me, right? 

*is slowly killing herself by keeping this up*


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> .... I don't care if that was sarcasm, Deo.... I kinda like this. But by saying it, you would be more inclined to ruin it for me, right?
> 
> *is slowly killing herself by keeping this up*


I just gave you a ton of help. So no bitching from you.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

*bitches all over the place to purge herself of it*

Mkay, purged. 

*sits there like a good girl*


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

So you're a girl...

Anyway, I agree with what others have said. Regarding the introduction, I'd incorporate the definitions of "Furry", and "Fandom" into the main body (you're trying to define furry as a fandom, a term that applies to many communities as well, so you should start by defining both terms before proceding to define "Furry fandom"). I don't know about your college's standards, but I think the first person approach is acceptable; unless you want to be more formal, in which case you should choose a more impersonal style. I'd also ommit "flaming" and change terms like "fur" to "furry", considering you must keep formalities and "fur" is just an apocope...

More later.

EDIT: The article's tone-and-content is more on the side of the informative, especially when considering the title. Change it, you're not saying how furries fit in the definition of "fandom" you're describing it and trying to represent it in a positive matter. 
Unless the word "as" allows for this kind of versatility.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

try to keep it down on the RP. You're not really impressing anyone by telling the forum about how much you can take the abuse. "the lady doth protest too much, me'thinks" and all that. Beside RPing is against forum rules. 

anyway the difference between and intelligent and an unintelligent argument is the ability to back it up with facts. As I said, you can write a paper about anything. it's the how that matters. 
Professionals can write about procrastination, but they are also not you, and anyway there's legitimate neurological and psychological research into the issue of procrastination.


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## dinosaurdammit (Oct 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> You're not going to get a definition here, it's best to get out of the forums.
> 
> _Or I will release the Deovaccus_



Oh hey


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Woops... sorry 'bout the RP stuff. That's a noob thing to do.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Anyway the difference between and intelligent and an unintelligent argument is the ability to back it up with facts. As I said, you can write a paper about anything. it's the how that matters.
> Professionals can write about procrastination, but they are also not you, and anyway there's legitimate neurological and psychological research into the issue of procrastination.


This is true. I once for Anthropology wrote a 20 page paper on nonverbal communication via blinking. 20 pages. On. Blinking.



dinosaurdammit said:


> Oh hey


Hey Hey Hey


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Do you still have that? I would like to read it...


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Do you still have that? I would like to read it...


I've got it on back up on the family computer about 400 miles away from me. My shitty laptop can only hold so much.

It was awesome. I picked it because I hated the professor. So he assigned us an essay on nonverbal communication, probably getting like 300 essays on body language, 300 on facial expression, and then bam eye blinking. I made sure to tell him before hand too and he went green. I MADE him interested in that shit. He emailed me after to tell me it was the first paper he'd ever gotten on blinking and that he'd personally liked it. Aced the class. FELT GOOD MAN.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Damn. I bet I could learn so much on how to properly bullshit my way to A's with that paper. Ohwell.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Deo said:


> It was awesome. I picked it because I hated the professor. So he assigned us an essay on nonverbal communication, probably getting like 300 essays on body language, 300 on facial expression, and then bam eye blinking. I made sure to tell him before hand too and he went green. I MADE him interested in that shit. He emailed me after to tell me it was the first paper he'd ever gotten on blinking and that he'd personally liked it. Aced the class. FELT GOOD MAN.



Lots of quotes, Times New Roman 12, twice the space between lines and lots of "bullshit"? 

Seriously, though, how did you fill twenty pages with "just" blinking? The most I've seen is students pulling five pages on a single phrase of a novel.


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Well, you seemed to have gotten my comments so there ya go. Don't worry about grammar and such right now, just get the content down first. It's really up to you in how you want to handle what you put in there. I do think you should mention the negative aspects of the fandom, as I said in the comments. 1) they are more interesting than a five page paper on how normal a fandom is 2) if you have to write about a culture, you should include aspects of the entire culture. In this case, stereotypes and whatnot apply. 3) if you don't include it and someone gets curious and googles "furry" in images, they might wind up with more porn than they wanted to see. A warning would be nice to those that might become interested in the topic/fandom.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

I will give them a proper disclaimer then. I thank you all profusely for your comments, but now I have a major overhaul to do on my paper, and some other things to take care of before tomorrow. I'll post the draft after I finish it, and give you all something to look at before I polish it for turning in.


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## Evan of Phrygia (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> I will give them a proper disclaimer then. I thank you all profusely for your comments, but now I have a major overhaul to do on my paper, and some other things to take care of before tomorrow. I'll post the draft after I finish it, and give you all something to look at before I polish it for turning in.



Just remember

If you don't

We'll come after you


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

And if you all come after me, I will wish that I were capable of out-running a mob.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Okay...I just read through it and I have three major issues with the paper. 

1. You write a lot of fluff. I don't really care if you're not going to get counted off for it, you need to start training yourself to be far more concise in your papers. You need to learn something called the "Hemingway rule" once you have a draft, go through and start to cut out every word which is not essential to the meaning of the sentence. 
Right now it looks like you're just adding in a load of fluff because you can't fill a five page paper. 

2. Learn how to quote, learn how to define. The definitions in the beginning are lazy and an immediate turn off. Perhaps your 101 class did not teach you this yet, but a catchy introduction is essential. You want someone to read the first paragraph and thing "well wow, this is interesting" I suggest you start with a catchy general statement about the fandom, lure people in, then weave the definition in, then do the whole, personal experience thing. 

2 B. seriously, learn how to quote. You have a page of a quote. That's just goddamn lazy. I'm not going to read that. The way to quote things is to pick out the important parts and then follow up with your own interpretation/explanation so the reader know why it is important. 
If I am writing a paper about fmri studies I would say
"Joshua Greene performed his own set of studies on the trolley problem, hypothesizing blah blah blah, he explains his results, " blah blah blah." The results of the test showed that emotion is the first response in both experiments" 

3. Why the hell are you posting prices? it really screws with the flow of the writing and there seems little point to it. If you're trying to show how talented people are? Because the money thing is just really not the way to go. It's rather crass. Like saying "look look, furries have a fuck ton of money." 
The better method would be to describe the professional quality. Talk about how fursuits are tailored, highly realistic at times, higher quality than what you find at themeparks and such. 

I had four but I can't think of it. it'll hit me later.


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## Evan of Phrygia (Oct 30, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> And if you all come after me, I will wish that I were capable of out-running a mob.


 
Well, we're talking about people who spend their day talking to furries on the internet, so on second thought don't be too concerned :V


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Deo said:


> I've got it on back up on the family computer about 400 miles away from me. My shitty laptop can only hold so much.
> 
> It was awesome. I picked it because I hated the professor. So he assigned us an essay on nonverbal communication, probably getting like 300 essays on body language, 300 on facial expression, and then bam eye blinking. I made sure to tell him before hand too and he went green. I MADE him interested in that shit. He emailed me after to tell me it was the first paper he'd ever gotten on blinking and that he'd personally liked it. Aced the class. FELT GOOD MAN.



Fuck yes! reminds me of the time I included "shark week" as many times as possible in a Thoreau project. I love just picking a subject to make the professor double take. Though the joke has been on me a few times.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V, 

Yeah... THank you.


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## Deo (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Lots of quotes, Times New Roman 12, twice the space between lines and lots of "bullshit"?
> 
> Seriously, though, how did you fill twenty pages with "just" blinking? The most I've seen is students pulling five pages on a single phrase of a novel.


JUST blinking? OH HELLL NAWWW
Blinking, the time in microseconds of the blink, the rate, which eye blinks first, or single blinking, can all have huge implications to nonverbal communication. Also there is a rate of blinking that we subconciously percieve as "this person is paying attention to me". Also there are social connotations that blinks may affect the other person's impression, like if someone blinks often we percieve it as "nervous" or slow blinks as "dumb". Not overt, but these play a crucial role in first impressions and nonverbal communication. Then the blink rate also has tons of connections to verbal language as well. It was actually difficult to wrestle my paper into 20 pages, it wanted to be a 22 or 23 page paper really badly, but I word culled and kept the remaining words accurate and concise.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Deo said:


> JUST blinking? OH HELLL NAWWW
> Blinking, the time in microseconds of the blink, the rate, which eye blinks first, or single blinking, can all have huge implications to nonverbal communication. Also there is a rate of blinking that we subconciously percieve as "this person is paying attention to me". Also there are social connotations that blinks may affect the other person's impression, like if someone blinks often we percieve it as "nervous" or slow blinks as "dumb". Not overt, but these play a crucial role in first impressions and nonverbal communication. Then the blink rate also has tons of connections to verbal language as well. It was actually difficult to wrestle my paper into 20 pages, it wanted to be a 22 or 23 page paper really badly, but I word culled and kept the remaining words accurate and concise.


I read somewhere that people will subconsciously begin blinking a lot in order to appear cute or innocent because it will make the eyes more watery. 
comment!


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## Aetius (Oct 30, 2011)

You people and your filler paragraphs :V


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> You people and your filler paragraphs :V



?


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Deo:... talk about the importance of small details.



Fay V said:


> I read somewhere that people will subconsciously begin blinking a lot in order to appear cute or innocent because it will make the eyes more watery.
> comment!



If anything, cartoon artists caught on this pretty quickly.


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## Aetius (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> ?



Long paragraphs that take up space in essays, I don't know, that's what I call them.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Deo:... talk about the importance of small details.
> 
> If anything, cartoon artists caught on this pretty quickly.


Small details will make or break a paper. I spent far too much time in my drafts working on words to get the right connotation I wanted. 

Also, cartoonists are very good and noticing the tiny actions of people, then exaggerating them.



Crusader Mike said:


> Long paragraphs that take up space in essays, I don't know, that's what I call them.


ah right. I thought you were talking to the rest of the forum members.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Small details will make or break a paper. I spent far too much time in my drafts working on words to get the right connotation I wanted.
> 
> Also, cartoonists are very good and noticing the tiny actions of people, then exaggerating them.



Oh, not those small details, I'm talking about small details in non-verbal language.

Good point. If I'm not mistaken, that was one the original principles of Disney's 9 men.

EDIT: This reminds me of something we were talking about in english class.
We had a series of short expositions on non-verbal language (coincidence). My topic was "Touching", in order to exemplify it, I choose the "Mother Knows Best" sequence in *Tangled*. The example turned out to be much more useful than I thought it was going to be. Proof that Disney artists are geniuses at representing all kinds of expressions (however subtle they may or not be).


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Oh, not those small details, I'm talking about small details in non-verbal language.
> 
> Good point. If I'm not mistaken, that was one the original principles of Disney's 9 men.
> 
> ...


I got into a long conversation with a friend while watching 80's animation over the quality of animation and non verbal expression. There where parts in the show where people would just widen their eyes and "sound" shocked which came off a really fucking creepy. We started talking about shows like futurama and family guy and the way the animation in done and how you see the quality improve (or not) based on how fluid the gestures are in the animation. 
Disney animation is fucking astounding at that, they got their gestures and facial expressions down, it's brilliant.


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> Long paragraphs that take up space in essays, I don't know, that's what I call them.


Sometimes paragraphs need to be long because there's a lot to say. Doesn't make them filler.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

Conker said:


> Sometimes paragraphs need to be long because there's a lot to say. Doesn't make them filler.


Depends on if they're long for the sake of being long. Like answering a yes or no question with a page of writing.


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## Conker (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Depends on if they're long for the sake of being long. Like answering a yes or no question with a page of writing.


True enough. When I had to write papers like that, I did try and keep the paragraphs to a certain length, because really long paragraphs are just daunting to read. Kinda funny in a way, I'm totally fine with reading two paragraphs that take up a page, but one paragraph that takes up a page and I get that "ah fuck this" feeling.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I got into a long conversation with a friend while watching 80's animation over the quality of animation and non verbal expression. There where parts in the show where people would just widen their eyes and "sound" shocked which came off a really fucking creepy. We started talking about shows like futurama and family guy and the way the animation in done and how you see the quality improve (or not) based on how fluid the gestures are in the animation.
> Disney animation is fucking astounding at that, they got their gestures and facial expressions down, it's brilliant.



In that regard, my favorites among their characters are Ariel and the Beast. Ariel for demonstrating that body language can be just as subtle and effective as words (her romantic face at the end of "Kiss the girl"? I've adored it since I was a child) and the Beast for showing clearly through his gestures how one goes from being bitter to socially akward to genuinely caring. There's a part in which he points Belle. Thing is, they're arguing, Belle is behind a door and he also looks away in an accusing manner: one of the epitomes of inmaturity, he's practically just a spoiled child at that point, however menacing.


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> In that regard, my favorites among their characters are Ariel and the Beast. Ariel for demonstrating that body language can be just as subtle and effective as words (her romantic face at the end of "Kiss the girl"? I've adored it since I was a child) and the Beast for showing clearly through his gestures how one goes from being bitter to socially akward to genuinely caring. There's a part in which he points Belle. Thing is, they're arguing, Belle is behind a door and he also looks away in an accusing manner: one of the epitomes of inmaturity, he's practically just a spoiled child at that point, however menacing.


They really are brilliant at that, the innovators are. 
It's like when I was watching princess mononoke. He sticks his hand in a river and you can see the goddamn dirt trail through the water, even after he takes his hand out it slowly swirled out to fade. Fucking god damn amazing.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh yes, Ghibli's men are brilliant at that too. Their average level of detail is even higher than Disney's, and they're just as effective at portraying emotions (by virtue of incredibly fleixble face, I've got to say), especially when it comes to children and women/girls (in fact, I'd dare to say that they're even more effective than Disney just on their children and females alone).


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Oct 30, 2011)

Popped back in for a question.

Do you think that instead of the whole pricing thing on fursuits I should say something about the hours of work put in?


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Oh yes, Ghibli's men are brilliant at that too. Their average level of detail is even higher than Disney's, and they're just as effective at portraying emotions (by virtue of incredibly fleixble face, I've got to say), especially when it comes to children and women/girls (in fact, I'd dare to say that they're even more effective than Disney just on their children and females alone).



As far as I am aware, they are one of the only studios which has less than 5% of the work done by computers. Also, those backgrounds, and the details, and the goddamn everything. Miyazaki is a true master of his craft. 
Hell they even have disney beat in terms of writing, in some respects. They allow for a lot more subtlety in the dialogue. In Howl's moving castle there's a lot of background commentary about the prince and a bunch of other stuff that they just never draw that much attention to...you know, like a normal person wouldn't randomly point out things about a war. It's....Ah, it's just so amazing.

edit: I think pricing should be removed entirely from the piece. Focus on professional commissions (with research you'll find artists which have been contracted as professionals) for fursuits do both professional commissions (I believe clockwork creatures has done some, and lion in the sun has. explaining the complex animatronics that can be used, and adding the number of hours put into such a piece can help yes.


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## Ariosto (Oct 30, 2011)

Fay V said:


> As far as I am aware, they are one of the only studios which has less than 5% of the work done by computers. Also, those backgrounds, and the details, and the goddamn everything. Miyazaki is a true master of his craft.
> Hell they even have disney beat in terms of writing, in some respects. They allow for a lot more subtlety in the dialogue. In Howl's moving castle there's a lot of background commentary about the prince and a bunch of other stuff that they just never draw that much attention to...you know, like a normal person wouldn't randomly point out things about a war. It's....Ah, it's just so amazing.
> 
> edit: I think pricing should be removed entirely from the piece. Focus on professional commissions (with research you'll find artists which have been contracted as professionals) for fursuits do both professional commissions (I believe clockwork creatures has done some, and lion in the sun has. explaining the complex animatronics that can be used, and adding the number of hours put into such a piece can help yes.



They definitely wipe the floor with Disney in terms of subtlety and writing. *My Neighbor Totoro* and *Kiki's Delivery Service* have such engrossing leads that they alone would be enough to carry their movies without the more "gimmicky" aspects (the Totoros and Kiki's status as a witch, which neverthless add a few layers of meaning themselves).
As a side note, I still hold *The Hunchback of Notre Dame* as the Disney movie with the overall most complex cast (especially Frollo, God if he isn't one of Disney's biggest bastards).


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## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> They definitely wipe the floor with Disney in terms of subtlety and writing. *My Neighbor Totoro* and *Kiki's Delivery Service* have such engrossing leads that they alone would be enough to carry their movies without the more "gimmicky" aspects (the Totoros and Kiki's status as a witch, which neverthless add a few layers of meaning themselves).
> As a side note, I still hold *The Hunchback of Notre Dame* as the Disney movie with the overall most complex cast (especially Frollo, God if he isn't one of Disney's biggest bastards).



Okay, this is super off topic so I am going to make a new topic and please for the love of god follow me there because I want to talk about more animation stuff


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 2, 2011)

Alright, essay draft two is posted! 

I need to add another page to it, including a conclusion. Any help in that manner would be more than appreciated!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pPWr6AprUTXCFCZsmNvx4ZjT5V2eO6MsdEhHAke_0SA/edit


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## LizardKing (Nov 2, 2011)

Your abuse of capital letters makes me sad.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 2, 2011)

>.< Fixed those.


Ummm is bumping allowed? I am bumping this, I think.


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## Conker (Nov 2, 2011)

Some things to consider. The date up in the corner should display the due date and not the current date. Double space between the title and the first line of your first paragraph.

Do you need just content, or should I look for grammar mistakes as well? I see a comma splice in the first line already. Remove the comma before "but". I'm seeing some errors in your first paragraph already. What prompted you to just research the fandom? You don't say. You say you met a furry in a class who "reintroduced" you, but you don't talk about your general introduction: what caused you to actually google the fandom. I'd also change "very interesting people" to "eccentric people" as its less wordy and might describe the class better. 

Your second paragraph seems kind of fluffish. You repeat yourself a bit. What you might want to consider is to keep the definition as a short two sentence paragraph and bring down the "funny animal" part into the start of the third paragraph adn just put the "history of furs" in one area. I'm not sure you need to bring in dA, since it's not that relevant. Most people don't know what dA is, and your simple definition doesn't explain why them having their own area for furry art is important or groundbreaking. I think if you really wanted to get the whole "there's a fuckload of art" across, you'd mention other sites devoted specifically to furry art, like FA or SoFurry. Maybe bring in dA, but explain why having this section is actually important. 

"A few examples of the excellent and popular fursuit-building artists are" get rid of "excellent" unless you plan on backing the claim up with something more than your opinion.

Don't feel like thinking about a conclusion for you. TV calls instead.


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

I warn you now I am going to go into bitchy TA mode. If you don't want it nitpicked then ignore my post. 
1. "For a while", not awhile. it's a prepositional phrase thing.
2. Personally I believe a fandom is a single unit, so the pronoun should be "it" but maybe someone can argue for plural. It would sound better with "furries" if you wanna use it. 
3. The intro has a lot of odd filler. It seems like you drag it out talking about the research and stuff. Again introductions must be catchy. Start at the interesting bit where this guy talks about his cool hobby. In Medias Res!
4 Okay, fursuit part. do more research, mention things that people will actually know. The adult swim one is fine but "Bitter Lake" is a fan creation. That doesn't mean much outside of the fandom. Did you look into who's done professional work outside the fandom at all? did you know lion of the sun has made suits for greenpeace? I won't tell you which, look it up yourself, but you shouldn't use examples from inside the fandom, that's circular. 
5. Maybe it's me but I always thought there's a difference between a furmeet and convention. Furmeets being small and unofficial in many ways. 
6. you imply that a vast majority of convetion goers and furries are fursuiters, you should make it clear they aren't a majority in the fandom. 
7.Seriously this article doesn't really talk about furry culture. it's mostly fursuits. You are underrepresenting all the art lovers, those that interact online, the forums, the writing...you fell into the same trap as everyone else. you focused on fursuits and didn't mention everything else.


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## Commiecomrade (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> 7.Seriously this article doesn't really talk about furry culture. it's mostly fursuits. You are underrepresenting all the art lovers, those that interact online, the forums, the writing...you fell into the same trap as everyone else. you focused on fursuits and didn't mention everything else.



Yes yes yes YES.

Seriously. I don't like them. I have plenty of furry friends who don't like them. Fursuits are to this fandom what cosplay is to the anime fandom. It's somewhat of a part, but nowhere near the focus.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> DinosaurDammit,
> It's a cultural essay, dearie. XD




Thought you should know furry isnt really a culture though orcas DO have culture and only certain ones in SA actually beach themselves to attack seals as it is a taught thing, no other orcas do this.


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Thought you should know furry isnt really a culture though orcas DO have culture and only certain ones in SA actually beach themselves to attack seals as it is a taught thing, no other orcas do this.


eh it's a subculture. This seems like a very...lax class anyway.
Pity though, there were so many amazing cultures out there. 

Did you know there is a group that speaks latin as their primary language? It's in some remote mountains so they've been speaking latin straight from ancient latin. Isn't that bitchin?! 
Latin as a language never actually died


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Did you know there is a group that speaks latin as their primary language? It's in some remote mountains so they've been speaking latin straight from ancient latin. Isn't that bitchin?!
> Latin as a language never actually died



_Nostra... Ea cultura erat arcana! Ubi apprehendisti circa illam?_ (Correct if incorrect, please).


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> _Nostra... Ea cultura erat arcana! Ubi apprehendisti circa illam?_ (Correct if incorrect, please).


I don't know Latin


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I don't know Latin



Uh? Sorry, I assumed that your classes included latin courses (some colleges make them mandatory for their philosophy programs, I think).
Anyway, what I meant to say was:
"Our... that culture was secret! Where did you learn about it?".


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

AristÃ³crates Carranza said:


> Uh? Sorry, I assumed that your classes included latin courses (some colleges make them mandatory for their philosophy programs, I think).
> Anyway, what I meant to say was:
> "Our... that culture was secret! Where did you learn about it?".


Nah, much to the chagrin of one of my professors. We have a language requirement, but yeah....

Anyway. back on topic. OP do you actually use an outline and plan papers at all?


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## Aetius (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> eh it's a subculture. This seems like a very...lax class anyway.
> Pity though, there were so many amazing cultures out there.
> 
> Did you know there is a group that speaks latin as their primary language? It's in some remote mountains so they've been speaking latin straight from ancient latin. Isn't that bitchin?!
> Latin as a language never actually died



Some ultra-Orthodox sects of the Catholic Church still only speak in Latin...its weird D:


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> Some ultra-Orthodox sects of the Catholic Church still only speak in Latin...its weird D:


Vulgar latin. The language fell out of use then people picked it up later in medieval europe for church use. The issue is they lost the idea of pronunciation and also forced Germanic rules onto it.
with this group of 3000 people they never stopped using it so it grew like a living language.  It is noticeably latin but different. Like english is not middle english or old english but it is still english.


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## Aetius (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Vulgar latin. The language fell out of use then people picked it up later in medieval europe for church use. The issue is they lost the idea of pronunciation and also forced Germanic rules onto it.
> with this group of 3000 people they never stopped using it so it grew like a living language.  It is noticeably latin but different. Like english is not middle english or old english but it is still english.



Hmm interesting, I usually find most cultures like these the most fascinating. Lost cultures and their orgins are usually the best to hear about.

Back onto topic: So, did you get your paper graded yet OP?


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Conker, thank you.

Fay V, by posting here I know I am going to get nitpicked. I want to go for an amazing grade, so I am going to take each of your nitpicking things to mind. The whole fursuit thing.... may have been me over-writing after researching them. That tends to happen. >.<


The most complete draft will be posted this afternoon. It will be fixed! I swear of it! I don't promise that there will not be ANY mistakes, though. 

Edit: No, it's due tomorrow. That was only a draft.


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## Aidy (Nov 3, 2011)

To be honest if you want an amazing grade I'm not sure the furry fandom is the way to go, but that's just me.


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> To be honest if you want an amazing grade I'm not sure the furry fandom is the way to go, but that's just me.



Frankly, I think anything that is properly researched, argumented,redacted and backed up can win an amazing grade inspite of a person's skepticism.


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## Fenrari (Nov 3, 2011)

Fandoms are not meant to be examined. They should be lived or viewed, but not pondered over.


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Fenrari said:


> Fandoms are not meant to be examined. They should be lived or viewed, but not pondered over.



But what about the fandom in general? Nerds in their compuetrs, I know; but the surprising level of organization some can achieve is mind-numbling (bronies in general and otaku, especially Touhou fans). Then again, there's probably a psychological term for this that I still don't know and this behaviour is probably not new, or at least not completely.

Edit: 
Bleh, forget it; I'd need to know more about sociology to rise an actual opinion on this.


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## Aidy (Nov 3, 2011)

Well it's a fair point but there isn't _that_ much you can really say about furries, you can only really note that some of them have done work for things that people may have heard of, and that some of them are incredible artists, authors, musicians and so on but furries haven't really had an impact on the world, unlike cultures such as the Romans or something. It's just my personal opinion, it'd be better going for something that people have heard of and something where it's easy to find the info so you don't need to ramble on about fursuits or use massive filler spaces. I wrote a 6 page essay on the change of British culture from the 40s to the 60s, sure it was boring as hell but it was easier to find the info.


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> Well it's a fair point but there isn't _that_ much you can really say about furries.



I've got to give this to you. While I was writing my post I thought that furries seemed strangely anomalous in comparison to most fandoms. In a sense, they're the most "closed" of them, since their hobbie refers to something without proper academic or artistic material. Otaku have anime, harcore gamers have whatever game they're obsessed with, Twitards have Twilight, trekkies have Star Trek, bronies have MLP and so on. Furries have the broadest of these "objects of adoration" and the one that can fit the easiest into any other fandom because it's a shallow device, not an entirely formed medium with traceable dynamics. 

Plus with a lack of anything especific and external to adore comes the fact the fandom tends to favor those who are already into it and make a name ONLY on it, not an artist/business that is easily accesible to a general audience (and the amount of porn only ensures that even more)... point being, furries are probably the most disorganized and divided fandom because they haven't an especific "what", and thus can't really analize the dynamics of their object of adoration because it: 1) covers an apallingly wide spectrum, 2) is usually not given much importance and is instead used as a mere device without clear aesthetical reasons behind other than being appealing. All of the above media have their own internal logic and fans can trace their enjoyment of the fina product back to that logic, we have none, we just like anthros because they're cool and that's it. 

In sum, we're the only fandom (or one of the few) without a proper aesthetic behind, thus we can't really analyze ourselves because there's nothing truly deserving of analysis.

EDIT: I really need to work in this kind of stuff, I'm so redundant.


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## Aidy (Nov 3, 2011)

Couldn't have put it any better myself to be honest, it's pretty difficult to do furries, so it would explain why you're having trouble with it OP.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

:/ Another reason why I am struggling, but another reason why I picked such a thing.

I guess I view difficult subjects as challenges. It might be the Psychologist in me doing this to prepare myself for difficult diagnoses or such... training myself to think even when I know that it is a difficult subject to properly portray to someone who has a need to dislike and/or ostracize certain groups or things because they don't understand the reasons people do these things. I feel as if I am a very open person to new and fantastic ideas and people but I have this horribly misguided wish to make people more open to other new ideas or such things... 

>.< Rambling.


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> :/ Another reason why I am struggling, but another reason why I picked such a thing.
> 
> I guess I view difficult subjects as challenges. It might be the Psychologist in me doing this to prepare myself for difficult diagnoses or such... training myself to think even when I know that it is a difficult subject to properly portray to someone who has a need to dislike and/or ostracize certain groups or things because they don't understand the reasons people do these things. I feel as if I am a very open person to new and fantastic ideas and people but I have this horribly misguided wish to make people more open to other new ideas or such things...
> 
> >.< Rambling.



Then how about an analysis on how furries fit and don't fit within the spectrum of "fandoms"? Oh, right, you probably can't change your thesis at this point, or can you?


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## NerdyMunk (Nov 3, 2011)

Something that is covered in lots of hair.

Example: Wolf


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

I have to describe a culture and include a brief bit of how I either fit in to the culture or discovered the culture.

:/ so if it were a debate-type paper I could have done that.


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

do you use outlines y/n ?


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Yes, but I had to condense my outline to fit 5 pages.


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Yes, but I had to condense my outline to fit 5 pages.


An outline should not be more than 1 page per 10 pages of writing. 

Write an outline and figure out the information you want to put into your paper, the basic idea of each paragraph
write the first draft, ignoring paper size limits, just get all the thoughts on paper. 
Once that is done review the ideas and see how close you hit the mark for the paper page limit. Figure out what ideas been to be expounded on, and what needs to be removed. 

If you can't completely cover the topic in the space given, then focus on an aspect. If you can only talk about fursuits, then only talk about fursuits. If you want to talk about furries then you need to cull your fursuit section. 
Again I return you to fluff. If you have a problem keeping to a limit then you're writing with too much fluff.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Nonononono. My outline was one page, but it had enough to fill over five pages. XD

I have to outline the culture, and the suits are a more popular part of this culture so I feel a need for them in my paper.

You have no clue how much culling is happening right now here in Microsoft Word XD


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## Ariosto (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Nonononono. My outline was one page, but it had enough to fill over five pages. XD
> 
> I have to outline the culture, and the suits are a more popular part of this culture so I feel a need for them in my paper.
> 
> You have no clue how much culling is happening right now here in Microsoft Word XD



Are they? Didn't Fay say a few pages ago that they weren't all that popular?


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

There is a difference between focusing on something and completely eclipsing the culture to talk about it.

It's like saying you're going to write a paper on chinese culture then just write about kung fu. It's certainly an interesting aspect, but it is not a hegemonious example.

It's a visible part of the fandom. Again fursuits are not that common. Out of people that go to cons only 10-20% of people will be in suit. Consider all the furries that don't go to conventions and don't suit and you get maybe 10% of the fandom suiting. 

You have made a critical error in your writing.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Any error is critical, eh Fay?


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## Aidy (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Any error is critical, eh Fay?



It is when you're writing about something like this :c


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Any error is critical, eh Fay?


No not really, the gramma, fluff, style issues and voice problems aren't critical. Those are all just a product of learning. 

What you've done is worked against the point of your paper. You want to write about a culture and wrote on an aspect, which shows you either A. Don't understand the subject or B. Don't understand how to write. 
I personally think it's the first, there's a reason we all take the writing 101 classes and no one is perfect. However again, you can't say you're trying to work against misinterpretations of the fandom, then turn around and just reinforce the idea that fursuits are a big deal.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Like I said, I am culling. I am down to a little over 2 1/4 pages.


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## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Well that's good. Keep it up, it gets easier with time. You learn how to use a direct voice and the flow of an essay comes naturally.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

I am going to have a ton of time! 

Now, for my favorite part: Analyzing why someone would want to be a Furry.


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## Conker (Nov 3, 2011)

If you plan on getting another draft up tonight, I'll try and give it another go over for ya. No promises, but I'm curious as to how this will all turn out now.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

I hope to have it up tonight sometime. I will be down-to-the-wire, but it will be up


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## Smelge (Nov 3, 2011)

I would like to contribute if at alll possible. I've known both the good and seedy sides of furry and can disclose loads of information that you may find relevant. Contact me via my livejournal: http://insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com/


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Well, I feel as if I am going to post this on my Google Docs as I continue to write it. Please give me errors to fix as I type.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/116Si2OP8qmmjH9p41g6QJ0Lllc4a7_Xc0casSMH95Tw/edit


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## greg-the-fox (Nov 3, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Well, I feel as if I am going to post this on my Google Docs as I continue to write it. Please give me errors to fix as I type.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/116Si2OP8qmmjH9p41g6QJ0Lllc4a7_Xc0casSMH95Tw/edit



Well it's honestly not as bad as I was expecting


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 3, 2011)

Umm Greg, I don't know if that's good or bad.


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## Conker (Nov 4, 2011)

Ye plan on posting your grade when it finally arrives?


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 8, 2011)

Yeah. I don't expect it to arrive very soon, though.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 18, 2011)

I only double-posted to bump this back to the top of the list. >.<

I got a 92% on my paper, y'all. This is an A-. Seems the only thing she marked me down on was my "prose style," which was the only thing I was worried about after all of your help. 'Seems like I have to take another look at the thesaurus and do some copying. XD 

She actually told me that she really enjoyed my paper and she looks forward to reading the argumentative paper I have due on the 12th of December, which I have yet to choose from the topics she has given us... though I am leaning toward one on the importance of varied diction and proper spelling in writing. Maybe that will help me to get a better "prose style."


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## Ariosto (Nov 18, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> I only double-posted to bump this back to the top of the list. >.<
> 
> I got a 92% on my paper, y'all. This is an A-. Seems the only thing she marked me down on was my "prose style," which was the only thing I was worried about after all of your help. 'Seems like I have to take another look at the thesaurus and do some copying. XD
> 
> She actually told me that she really enjoyed my paper and she looks forward to reading the argumentative paper I have due on the 12th of December, which I have yet to choose from the topics she has given us... though I am leaning toward one on the importance of varied diction and proper spelling in writing. Maybe that will help me to get a better "prose style."



Congrtulations! Did she say anything else regarding the topic or your arguments? Just out of curiosity.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 18, 2011)

She didn't, but I could tell she wanted to considering she gave me many compliments on my doodling today in class... I was doodling anthros again. >.< We just didn't have the time to talk today. I am sure I will talk to her next class, though, if only to get improvement tips. I will hear from her then about my arguments too, I am sure.

<3 and thank you for the congrats!


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## Scotty1700 (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Alright.
> 
> I am doing a cultural research paper on Furries,



[yt]Ays5DP1m1JQ[/yt]



Sparrowkin said:


> This is a tall order, but I am sure you all can come up with very well-done definitions for me.



[yt]x_R7dushO9U[/yt]


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 19, 2011)

Not a brony... not a big MLP FiM fan.... 


and dear, please read the thread. I got what I needed. I also got a wonderful grade. This thread is what... a few weeks old now?

Dude, go away.


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## Conker (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> I only double-posted to bump this back to the top of the list. >.<
> 
> I got a 92% on my paper, y'all. This is an A-. Seems the only thing she marked me down on was my "prose style," which was the only thing I was worried about after all of your help. 'Seems like I have to take another look at the thesaurus and do some copying. XD


Hmm. Grats, though I was hoping you'd do better than that, seeing as a handful of us helped you. What does she mean by "prose style" by the way? It's not like your paper was overly flowery or anything like that. Seems odd that you'd get docked 8% simply because she didn't like your style of writing.


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## Leafblower29 (Nov 19, 2011)

Am I too late for this thread?


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 19, 2011)

Conker said:


> Hmm. Grats, though I was hoping you'd do better than that, seeing as a handful of us helped you. What does she mean by "prose style" by the way? It's not like your paper was overly flowery or anything like that. Seems odd that you'd get docked 8% simply because she didn't like your style of writing.




Yeah, I think she is used to me writing with flourishes and long words instead of getting to the point concisely. She is a poet and likes pretty words. I found an extra period and a capitalization I missed, but those are the only two marks on the entire paper. I can't know exactly what she meant.  

Oh, and yeah you are too late, Leafblower.


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## Scotty1700 (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Dude, go away.



Umad? :v

Nah, but srsly we get enough people asking us questions...it was a turrible idea to write about furfags for a grade xD

Also, the fact that the thread's a few weeks old shows me how little I pay attention to the Den...


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## najee010 (Nov 19, 2011)

I wrote a paper on furries about a month ago with a crap load of info i  got from just looking at random threads everyday. I got 92% on it, made a  few friends and taught my class andn teacher what furries are since we  had to read it aloud(nobody actually knew what they were and im in  Raleigh NC, st Augustine's college lol.) They were kinda grossed out by  the stereotypes but i went to the bad before the palate cleansing part  of the essay. Some were like "OH thats why u wear a wolf pendant and  wolf rings" I chose a whored animal as my fursona i know, but hey in the  end my teacher respected me more and i gained friends intrested in my  drawings so... was kind of a triple win for me. Glad yours was a success  as well


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## Conker (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Yeah, I think she is used to me writing with flourishes and long words instead of getting to the point concisely. She is a poet and likes pretty words. I found an extra period and a capitalization I missed, but those are the only two marks on the entire paper. I can't know exactly what she meant.
> 
> Oh, and yeah you are too late, Leafblower.


Poorly written papers are filled with pretty words and are not concise, if she's taking points off because you didn't write it like a poet would, then fuck her.


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## Ariosto (Nov 19, 2011)

Edit: double post, sorry.


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## Ariosto (Nov 19, 2011)

Conker said:


> Poorly written papers are filled with pretty words and are not concise, if she's taking points off because you didn't write it like a poet would, then fuck her.



Well, her not asking for references was probably a sign of something like this.

EDIT: Initially I had just skimmed over Sparrowkin's post, but now I read the part about her teacher being a poet... *wallbang _ad infinitum_*


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 19, 2011)

Yeah....\

Oh, and this also shows you that you do a lot of that tl;dr stuff, Scotty!


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## Onnes (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Yeah....\
> 
> Oh, and this also shows you that you do a lot of that tl;dr stuff, Scotty!



Make sure you ask her about what kinds of changes she'd make to the prose. Just saying that it needs work doesn't even point you in the right direction.


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 19, 2011)

Onnes said:


> Make sure you ask her about what kinds of changes she'd make to the prose. Just saying that it needs work doesn't even point you in the right direction.


 

I am gonna be a psychologist, so I will definitely really really ask questions. I honestly think that she wants me to write more flourish-y and less concise


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## Scotty1700 (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparrowkin said:


> Yeah....\
> 
> Oh, and this also shows you that you do a lot of that tl;dr stuff, Scotty!



Short, sweet, and to the point. I don't want to read for 10 minutes realizing you only cover your topic at the ass end of your post lol. (Not saying it was the case for you but it's usually like that for most people who post in the den)


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## Grae Sparrowkin (Nov 19, 2011)

So true. So true. 

Usually I either read because A) people make me laugh and I want to see them fall on their asses or B) to see if someone already said something that I wanted to. 

I guess for those TL;DR people you could just skim


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