# Alien civilisations would probably not be humanoid



## Faexie (Mar 15, 2019)

There's a tendency in fictions and conspiracy theories to portray civilised aliens as very human like, and I honestly highly doubt that they really would look like that. Evolution can go in so many different ways!

I believe that there are only three major traits that are necessary for a species to create civilisations. These would be intelligence (curiosity, the ability to think abstractly and about the future, to use knowledge in new ways...), being social (so older ones can teach the younger ones, and the younger ones can build on top of the knowledge of the older ones) and being able to easily manipulate objects.

For example, I believe that if octopuses were social or that dolphins and other cetaceans were able to manipulate things well, they might have been on par with us today or in the future, or maybe even be more advanced than us!


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2019)

There's only one way to find out. ;]


----------



## Infrarednexus (Mar 15, 2019)

They helped build the pyramids >w>


----------



## CrookedCroc (Mar 15, 2019)

I always wondered, if there's life in other planets have they discovered art and music? How would it look and sound? Would it be similar to what we make? 



Spoiler



Do they make fursuits?


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> I always wondered, if there's life in other planets have they discovered art and music? How would it look and sound? Would it be similar to what we make?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Humans have a pretty wide gamut of art styles, so it's hard to imagine there would be no overlap.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 15, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> I always wondered, if there's life in other planets have they discovered art and music? How would it look and sound? Would it be similar to what we make?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe they even invented cultural things we never even thought about? Something that plays with senses that we don't have, for example


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Maybe they even invented cultural things we never even thought about? Something that plays with senses that we don't have, for example


Like the spidey sense.


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Mar 15, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> *There's a tendency in fictions and conspiracy theories to portray civilised aliens as very human like*


Well there is reason for that if you know what I mean........


Infrarednexus said:


> They helped build the pyramids >w>


Yeah to bad they became fat and domesticated before their evil plan came to fruition.......


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 15, 2019)

There's no guarantee that they would be humanoid, no. Being humanoid isn't a requirement for being technologically advanced.


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Mar 15, 2019)

I highly doubt they would all be between 4-7 feet tall as well.


----------



## Canis Dirus (Mar 15, 2019)

(Sigh) Congratulations. You have just discovered a dispute between “Yefremovists” (aliens have humanoid appearance and thinking due to evolutionary convergence) and “Lemists” (aliens are fundamentally non-humanoid, and their thinking is so different that any contact is impossible). Unfortunately, at the current moment we have not reach Terra Australis Incognita, so any disputes, whether it is inhabited by Cynocephali or just some body part of the local women is square and across, just an empty scholastic. The author simply chooses the arguments that fit his story (or whatever).


----------



## Faexie (Mar 15, 2019)

Canis Dirus said:


> (Sigh) Congratulations. You have just discovered a dispute between “Yefremovists” (aliens have humanoid appearance and thinking due to evolutionary convergence) and “Lemists” (aliens are fundamentally non-humanoid, and their thinking is so different that any contact is impossible). Unfortunately, at the current moment we have not reach Terra Australis Incognita, so any disputes, whether it is inhabited by Cynocephali or just some body part of the local women is square and across, just an empty scholastic. The author simply chooses the arguments that fit his story (or whatever).


Dude it's just fun to talk about... .-.

You did provide interesting things to look up though. Thanks for that!


----------



## larigot (Mar 15, 2019)

Canis Dirus said:


> Unfortunately, at the current moment we have not reach Terra Australis Incognita


And we never will, because Australia doesn't exist.


----------



## Sarachaga (Mar 15, 2019)

Totally agree. I'm writing some fictional alien civilizations for a game and it's cool mind gymnastics to try to come up with original stuff


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 15, 2019)

I like Lovecraft's take when he isn't beeing a racist twat.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 15, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I like Lovecraft's take when he isn't beeing a racist twat.


Same. Lovecraft was a piece of shit, but he was a very creative piece of shit


----------



## PercyD (Mar 15, 2019)

If octopus became social, that would be the end of us-


----------



## Faexie (Mar 15, 2019)

Sarachaga said:


> Totally agree. I'm writing some fictional alien civilizations for a game and it's cool mind gymnastics to try to come up with original stuff


Oooh, what game?


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Mar 15, 2019)

PercyD said:


> If octopus became social, that would be the end of us-


I think that's was what Splatoon's warning was.


----------



## Sarachaga (Mar 15, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Oooh, what game?


Making my own MUD 
(It's a text only MMO ^^)


----------



## Peach's (Mar 15, 2019)

On this note, the most fascinating alien design I have come across

povorot on DeviantArt


----------



## Faexie (Mar 15, 2019)

Peebes said:


> On this note, the most fascinating alien design I have come across
> 
> povorot on DeviantArt


So weird. I like it!


----------



## AriesFox (Mar 16, 2019)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> Well there is reason for that if you know what I mean........
> 
> Yeah to bad they became fat and domesticated before their evil plan came to fruition.......
> View attachment 57100


Who says it never came to fruition? Think about it:

Cats become “domesticated” by humans, what the hmans don’t realize is cats simply realized rhat we are larger and have more dexterity than their species and thus decided to use us for their own purposes.

We feed them, take care of them, pay for their medical bills, worship them on the internet, for they are practically Gods in that respect.

Cats just created stuff like the pyramids or the stonehedge as a giant distraction for us to keep ourselves occupied while they wait for us to invent deep space travel so they can conquer other planets.


----------



## SSJ3Mewtwo (Mar 16, 2019)




----------



## Minerva_Minx (Mar 16, 2019)

Ah, the Fermi Paradox.  I know it well.

What it doesn't take into account are resource management, general stupidity, politics, or militaristic tendency. Or that it isnt in anyone's best interest to contact another world for the same risk of accidental annihilation as actually getting invaded, or setting off the accidental invasion...

Or that water bears are proof of extraterrestrial life.


----------



## Furrium (Mar 16, 2019)

But their brain is already developed differently, they just can not guess. People, unlike other animals, understand this, although not always. I agree with you that the species must be social, I would call it the meaning of life. A man asks questions "Why do I live?" and he must pass on his knowledge to the next generation, so that they can further search for an answer to this question. 

I hope that I understood your question correctly.


----------



## Telnac (Mar 16, 2019)

I believe that the Earth currently has two broad families of intelligent species: simians (including monkeys and the great apes) and toothed whales (including dolphins and porpoises). Species of both of these animal groups have very advanced brains and some can communicate with complex languages that are comprised of more than hundreds of different type of expressions.

Yet only one of these species has a technological civilization: humans. This is despite the fact that we're relative newcomers on the scene and other species have been around many millions of years before we have. Why?

The answer is that our rise to intelligence was matched with physical characteristics that allowed for the development of technology. Chief among these are flexible wrists and fingers and bipedalism. There are many species who make and use simple tools but being bipedal means we can carry our tools and use them as weapons when we hunt. It's critical in our unique use of fire as a tool and as a weapon. You can't carry fire in your mouth and it certainly can't exist underwater (aside from fires from exotic fuels that are both fuel and oxidizer, something that can't easily be tamed.)

Fire lets us cook our food, allowing for more dietary options and a smaller digestive tract, freeing up energy to go toward a much larger and more complex brain. Big brains are metabolically expensive. Without fire and the technologies it allows, we would surely starve.

I believe intelligence doesn't inevitably lead to technology because there are key technologies that are necessary for a technological civilization, and chief among them is fire. Second only to fire is farming and third is writing. With these three technologies, I believe a technological civilization is inevitable. Without them, a technological civilization is impossible.

If humanity were to disappear tomorrow, would another one of the great apes develop fire, farming and writing? Likely, yes. But I'd argue they'd only be able to do so if they were bipeds. Would a dolphin develop those three key technologies? No. Some form of farming may be possible. We see that in other species, such as ants. Maybe even writing is possible. But without fire, sea-based intelligence simply can't unlock the type of energy revolution that fire allows.

So as we spread out across the stars, I think we'll see this pattern repeat itself: life is common. Multi-cellular life is far less so. Animal life is less so than that. Intelligent life is truly rare. Technological life is either unique (we're the first) or so vanishingly rare that the only signs of it we find are the ruins of technological civilizations that have already gone extinct.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 16, 2019)

Telnac said:


> I believe that the Earth currently has two broad families of intelligent species: simians (including monkeys and the great apes) and toothed whales (including dolphins and porpoises). Species of both of these animal groups have very advanced brains and some can communicate with complex languages that are comprised of more than hundreds of different type of expressions.
> 
> Yet only one of these species has a technological civilization: humans. This is despite the fact that we're relative newcomers on the scene and other species have been around many millions of years before we have. Why?
> 
> ...


You can add corvids to that list, crows especially. Some species of crows even build tools themselves, and they're the only known species after humans to do that (other animals just use whatever they find and don't make their own)

There's a bird species (black kites) that uses fire to hunt, causing wildfires and catching animals when they run away, but they can't create fire, they merely use it when they can find it


----------



## Telnac (Mar 16, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> You can add corvids to that list, crows especially. Some species of crows even build tools themselves, and they're the only species after humans to do that (other animals just use whatever they find and don't male their own)
> 
> There's a bird species (black kites) that uses fire to hunt, causing wildfires and catching animals when they run away, but they can't create fire, they merely use it when they can find it


Good point! I forgot about them. But yes, there's a huge difference between using fire and being able to create it.


----------



## Connor J. Coyote (Mar 16, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> I believe that there are only three major traits that are necessary for a species to create civilisations. These would be intelligence (curiosity, the ability to think abstractly and about the future, to use knowledge in new ways...), being social (so older ones can teach the younger ones, and the younger ones can build on top of the knowledge of the older ones) and being able to easily manipulate objects.


 ... and being able to fry bacon in the mornin'.

Seriously though - who really knows... I've always kinda believed it's a bit of a mix; with both humanoid and non, as there's (the potential at least) for millions of different life forms to exist out there... and - that'd probably be in many different shapes and sizes, I would imagine.

Unless of course, we humans are completely alone in the Universe.........


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Mar 16, 2019)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Unless of course, we humans are completely alone in the Universe.........



We're not.  even a .000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance means about 100,000 technologically advanced species exists just in what little we see with the naked eye.  take it to as far as you want, you will still be left with exactly 1 more advanced species.  the problem is the limits of current technology.  we still operate with the speed of light limit on communications (quantum, spooky action at a distance communications technology being limited) which means waiting 2-3 thousand years for most replies, in the local group.  assuming they don't take us for an invasive species, or hoping we stumble on communications within the noise floor of the universe (thanks Rayleigh scatter) that is not encrypted and can be traced to source.

Good news, likely furry.  go blue dwarfs...


----------



## PercyD (Mar 16, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4™ said:


> I think that's was what Splatoon's warning was.


Probably.
_Keep the cephilopods from organizing-_


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 17, 2019)

Depends. You know how some people try to use the fact both Mayans and Egyptians built pyramids to prove that they have the same origin? it's bullshit, a pyramid is just a very easy structure to invent, it's absolutely not surprising that widely different civilizations would build pyramids despite never knowing the existence of each others.
Inversely, how far-fetched is it to think that a species that would've followed a very similar evolution as humans, and thus looking like them, would be WAY more likely to build what we would consider a civilization?

This being said there's also ants, they fit all your requirements (they're all damn stupid) and yes, they found impressive empires


----------



## Anon Raccoon (Mar 17, 2019)




----------



## Abilify (Mar 17, 2019)

I’m too far down the rabbit hole with cryptoterrestrials and astral beings to participate in this discussion. That being said, I agree with the premise of OP. It’s highly unlikely that anything intelligent we find will look like us unless the condititions for intelligence and social organization necessary for space travel require a form and brain structure similar to that of humans.


----------



## PercyD (Mar 17, 2019)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Depends. You know how some people try to use the fact both Mayans and Egyptians built pyramids to prove that they have the same origin? it's bullshit, a pyramid is just a very easy structure to invent, it's absolutely not surprising that widely different civilizations would build pyramids despite never knowing the existence of each others.
> Inversely, how far-fetched is it to think that a species that would've followed a very similar evolution as humans, and thus looking like them, would be WAY more likely to build what we would consider a civilization?
> 
> This being said there's also ants, they fit all your requirements (they're all damn stupid) and yes, they found impressive empires


A lot of people who go on about aliens helping Egyptians and Mayans to build things are kinda racist. Like, oh, its impossible for a non-European culture to know how to science, math, and engineer enough to build a pyramid. *Dull look.*
So any way, a lot of knowledge was lost because of war, imperialism, and straight on just racial bias. You can @ me on this.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 17, 2019)

PercyD said:


> A lot of people who go on about aliens helping Egyptians and Mayans to build things are kinda racist. Like, oh, its impossible for a non-European culture to know how to science, math, and engineer enough to build a pyramid. *Dull look.*
> So any way, a lot of knowledge was lost because of war, imperialism, and straight on just racial bias. You can @ me on this.


This is more of a metaphore, implying that just like pyramids are common because they're easy structures to build, maybe humanoid shapes and minds create civilizations more easily.

He said the opposite of what you thought he said, actually ^^'


----------



## PercyD (Mar 17, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> This is more of a metaphore, implying that just like pyramids are common because they're easy structures to build, maybe humanoid shapes and minds create civilizations more easily.
> 
> He said the opposite of what you thought he said, actually ^^'


Oh- I didn't mean to imply that thats what he said. I was sort of agreeing and pointing out the really racist/imperialist view of 'aliens actually built these feats of engineering'.


----------



## Keefur (Mar 17, 2019)

The fact that we look like we do is an accident.  There have been several great extinction events on this planet which pretty randomly allowed life to develop as we know it now.  For example, if dinosaurs hadn't become extinct, then there could have easily had a dinosaur that developed intelligence as a weapon over their rivals.  Intelligence is the ultimate survival weapon in promoting your species over others.  Of course lower life forms come around and attack higher life forms, but we are talking about intelligent life.  That being said, life on this planet has been an experimental stew, so I don't believe that the "forms" of life would be that much different.  I believe that certain configurations, such as bipedalism and minipulative hands would eventually be essential.  These tools are too efficient not to have, and life is really about efficiency in one's environment.  Large brains, too, are essential, and eventually would give way to artificial intelligence.  AI is a more rapid and efficient way to evolve.  Perhaps man can span the universe in the future with AI robots that incubate humans and supporting life forms upon landing on alien worlds.  Perhaps that is how we got here on earth to begin with.


----------



## PercyD (Mar 17, 2019)

Keefur said:


> The fact that we look like we do is an accident.  There have been several great extinction events on this planet which pretty randomly allowed life to develop as we know it now.  For example, if dinosaurs hadn't become extinct, then there could have easily had a dinosaur that developed intelligence as a weapon over their rivals.  Intelligence is the ultimate survival weapon in promoting your species over others.  Of course lower life forms come around and attack higher life forms, but we are talking about intelligent life.  That being said, life on this planet has been an experimental stew, so I don't believe that the "forms" of life would be that much different.  I believe that certain configurations, such as bipedalism and minipulative hands would eventually be essential.  These tools are too efficient not to have, and life is really about efficiency in one's environment.  Large brains, too, are essential, and eventually would give way to artificial intelligence.  AI is a more rapid and efficient way to evolve.  Perhaps man can span the universe in the future with AI robots that incubate humans and supporting life forms upon landing on alien worlds.  Perhaps that is how we got here on earth to begin with.


Eh, intelligence takes a lot of energy. Thats why a lot of other forms of life just don't pursue that strategy. Human beings just apparently made it work with social survival and collective intelligence. 
You might have a lot of other life out there that doesn't pursue intelligence like we have. Insert some speculation about the great filter here.


----------



## Keefur (Mar 17, 2019)

PercyD said:


> Eh, intelligence takes a lot of energy. Thats why a lot of other forms of life just don't pursue that strategy. Human beings just apparently made it work with social survival and collective intelligence.
> You might have a lot of other life out there that doesn't pursue intelligence like we have. Insert some speculation about the great filter here.


As you said, intelligence is a strategy.  Ancient man may have gotten backed into a corner survival wise.  Maybe it was loss or change of habitat, or too much competition for meager food supplies.  Animals normally strive to migrate, herd, and/or evolve means to best reach their food supplies, such as flight.  Apparently, intelligence became great enough to make a difference in survival or man would have died out.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 17, 2019)

Keefur said:


> As you said, intelligence is a strategy.  Ancient man may have gotten backed into a corner survival wise.  Maybe it was loss or change of habitat, or too much competition for meager food supplies.  Animals normally strive to migrate, herd, and/or evolve means to best reach their food supplies, such as flight.  Apparently, intelligence became great enough to make a difference in survival or man would have died out.


We humans (and our ancestors) are pretty low tier in most things. We're not especially fast or strong, and we're not equipped with "weapons"  in our body, like fangs or claws, our skin is soft and easy to pierce through, we're too big to hide and too small to be intimidating and we don't reproduce like crazy either. Our cleverness is the only thing we had going for us when it comes to spreading our genes, so I guess we're so smart because we suck at everything else?


----------



## Faexie (Mar 17, 2019)

PercyD said:


> Eh, intelligence takes a lot of energy. Thats why a lot of other forms of life just don't pursue that strategy. Human beings just apparently made it work with social survival and collective intelligence.
> You might have a lot of other life out there that doesn't pursue intelligence like we have. Insert some speculation about the great filter here.


Species that don't evolve towards intelligence are very unlikely to create a civilization though 

But yeah intelligence is not the end goal of evolution, primarily because evolution has no goal.


----------



## Keefur (Mar 18, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Species that don't evolve towards intelligence are very unlikely to create a civilization though
> 
> But yeah intelligence is not the end goal of evolution, primarily because evolution has no goal.


Intelligence is pobably the end result of evolution as with intelligence you conquer all competitors.  With intelligence, you no longer have to worry about survival (normally) and many diseases.  The goal of evolution is survival, after all. As said above, intelligence requires a lot of energy from an animal, yet that intelligence frees up so much energy for other pursuits later on in the existance of the species. These pursuits reinforce the choice for the evolution of bigger brainpower.


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Mar 18, 2019)

Aliens could very well be like the Zerg. And that's terrifying.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 18, 2019)

PercyD said:


> A lot of people who go on about aliens helping Egyptians and Mayans to build things are kinda racist. Like, oh, its impossible for a non-European culture to know how to science, math, and engineer enough to build a pyramid. *Dull look.*
> So any way, a lot of knowledge was lost because of war, imperialism, and straight on just racial bias. You can @ me on this.


Nope, the people I'm referring to are speaking of things like Atlantis and/or pre-Columbian pre-Eriksson travel through the Atlantic ocean, and insist that there once was a world-wide civilization. I have no clue who you're talking about.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 18, 2019)

PercyD said:


> Oh- I didn't mean to imply that thats what he said. I was sort of agreeing and pointing out the really racist/imperialist view of 'aliens actually built these feats of engineering'.


I don't think that's the case honestly, to me it's people who are understandably clueless about how for instance the Incans put together such huge stones as in Machu Picchu in an almost airtight arrangement without modern equipment or even metallic instruments. Even modern archeologists are puzzled by it, not because they're racist, but because NOBODY seemingly could do that no matter their skin tone. To go back to whacky ancient aliens folks, they're then seeing weird hieroglyphs and petroglyphs and interpret them as spaceships. The same sort of people will say that ancient Egyptians were much more advanced than we think and mastered electricity. There are other weird things, like how you can only see what Nasca lines represent from the sky. To some, this means "aliens". There's probably another weird meaning to this, but saying it's aliens is not racism, just an easy answer to something really puzzling.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 18, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> This is more of a metaphore, implying that just like pyramids are common because they're easy structures to build, maybe humanoid shapes and minds create civilizations more easily.


Thanks for the clarification! i thought it wasn't ideally worded. Especially the last part, it's very interesting to think of other ways a civilization can exist, different from what our definition of a civilization is. That's why I mentioned ants, they don't need to have individual intelligence, if they could just have dynasties of queens instead of just a one-off maybe they could evolve to be ever more elaborate and incredibly powerful... many works of fiction did a great job at inventing civilizations as could be developed by creatures with very different characteristics.


----------



## Joeyyy (Mar 18, 2019)

if the aliens built the pyramids and the Egyptians depicted them as their gods, then this is VERY relevant for the furry community.  

beam me up pls.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 18, 2019)

Joeyyy said:


> if the aliens built the pyramids and the Egyptians depicted them as their gods, then this is VERY relevant for the furry community.
> 
> beam me up pls.


Humanity has always loved anthro animals. There were people dressing up as animals even before the begining of civilizations, though the reasons behind it were more spiritual.

Aztec warriors of a certain level wore fursuits into battle :V


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Mar 18, 2019)

Rimna said:


> Aliens could very well be like the Zerg. And that's terrifying.


Either that or Brethren Moons from Dead Space....... (Or worse a unholy fusion of Zerg, Tyranids, Void, and Chaos..........)


----------



## Garfieldthefatkittey (Mar 18, 2019)

Yah science


----------



## Baalf (Mar 18, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> There's a tendency in fictions and conspiracy theories to portray civilised aliens as very human like, and I honestly highly doubt that they really would look like that. Evolution can go in so many different ways!
> 
> I believe that there are only three major traits that are necessary for a species to create civilisations. These would be intelligence (curiosity, the ability to think abstractly and about the future, to use knowledge in new ways...), being social (so older ones can teach the younger ones, and the younger ones can build on top of the knowledge of the older ones) and being able to easily manipulate objects.
> 
> For example, I believe that if octopuses were social or that dolphins and other cetaceans were able to manipulate things well, they might have been on par with us today or in the future, or maybe even be more advanced than us!



Well I feel like anthro aliens are just as unlikely, human looking aliens are a huge pet peeve of mine. I especially hate it when good guy aliens look like that, what bad guy aliens can be more diverse than that. It is one of the reasons I only had Star Ocean 4 for about a week before returning it. (That, and ridiculously shallow and unlikable protagonist characters and the worst motion blur I've ever seen.)


----------



## Peach's (Mar 18, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Humanity has always loved anthro animals. There were people dressing up as animals even before the begining of civilizations, though the reasons behind it were more spiritual.


We need to bring back some ancient spirituality, its cool and makes a connection to the environment and natural world.


----------



## Faexie (Mar 19, 2019)

Peebes said:


> We need to bring back some ancient spirituality, its cool and makes a connection to the environment and natural world.


Ancient cultures and religions (as well as the exotic ones) tend to be idealized and romanticicized a lot, and are not as great as you might think. Every culture has gruesome practices and toxic aspects to it.

Though I agree that we should go back to thinking about nature as something that has inherent value, that we are a part of and that is part of us, and that should be respected and protected, rather than merely seeing it as ressources to exploit.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Mar 19, 2019)

PercyD said:


> A lot of people who go on about aliens helping Egyptians and Mayans to build things are kinda racist. Like, oh, its impossible for a non-European culture to know how to science, math, and engineer enough to build a pyramid. *Dull look.*
> So any way, a lot of knowledge was lost because of war, imperialism, and straight on just racial bias. You can @ me on this.


It's amazing what you can do in the absence of labor laws or workers' rights


----------



## The Matte-Black Cat (Mar 19, 2019)

All I know is that if aliens exist and wanted to take over the world...I'd abandon the human race to join them! >:3

...except for my family..and friends..and my boyfriend..
They all gonna have to come with me.


----------



## Keefur (Mar 19, 2019)

The Matte-Black Cat said:


> All I know is that if aliens exist and wanted to take over the world...I'd abandon the human race to join them! >:3
> 
> ...except for my family..and friends..and my boyfriend..
> They all gonna have to come with me.


If alien races were advanced enough to get to earth, they would be vastly superior knowledge-wise.  I wouldn't blame you.


----------



## The Matte-Black Cat (Mar 19, 2019)

Keefur said:


> If alien races were advanced enough to get to earth, they would be vastly superior knowledge-wise.  I wouldn't blame you.



Yeah, and teach all these human "geniuses" a lesson!!! >:3

...I'm a very salty person.


----------



## Keefur (Mar 19, 2019)

I know I'm not young enough to realize it in my lifetime, but I truly believe that very soon, humanity will discover anti-gravity and plasma energy.  They may also unravel the mysteries of magnetism.  Hopefully this will propel us to the stars and alleviate the energy problems here on earth.


----------



## PercyD (Mar 19, 2019)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> It's amazing what you can do in the absence of labor laws or workers' rights


Yea! Thats how America became a thing.


----------



## Fruitythebeetle (Apr 8, 2019)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Well I feel like anthro aliens are just as unlikely, human looking aliens are a huge pet peeve of mine. I especially hate it when good guy aliens look like that, what bad guy aliens can be more diverse than that. It is one of the reasons I only had Star Ocean 4 for about a week before returning it. (That, and ridiculously shallow and unlikable protagonist characters and the worst motion blur I've ever seen.)




It's something that's always bothered me for years now. it's kinda why i just flat out hate star wars and star trek for the longest time. half of their alien designs are jsut boring humans with makeup slapped on them. i'm more of  a middle ground person so i like my aliens to look alien but with some human features.

now i kinda feel like shit for making the gezai and my Goliatians human but there's a justifiable reason for that (cuz they kinda are)


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Apr 8, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Humanity has always loved anthro animals. There were people dressing up as animals even before the begining of civilizations, though the reasons behind it were more spiritual.


Or sometimes the spiritual was downright just an excuse to go wild



  "Hehe look at me, I'm a dignified priest of Pan!"


----------



## Telnac (Apr 8, 2019)

Keefur said:


> I know I'm not young enough to realize it in my lifetime, but I truly believe that very soon, humanity will discover anti-gravity and plasma energy.  They may also unravel the mysteries of magnetism.  Hopefully this will propel us to the stars and alleviate the energy problems here on earth.


We have a pretty good handle on magnetism. If we didn't the modern world couldn't exist. Gravity, on the other hand, is a head-scratcher. It was the first force we discovered and yet we still don't have a good theory of where it comes from and why it behaves the way it does. We need to know that before we'll be able to build anything like an anti-gravity machine (assuming such a machine is possible to build in the first place!)

If aliens has such technology they'd have surely colonized the galaxy by now. Given the age of the Universe I find it fascinating and more than a little unsettling that we haven't made first contact by now.


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 8, 2019)

Telnac said:


> We have a pretty good handle on magnetism. If we didn't the modern world couldn't exist. Gravity, on the other hand, is a head-scratcher. It was the first force we discovered and yet we still don't have a good theory of where it comes from and why it behaves the way it does. We need to know that before we'll be able to build anything like an anti-gravity machine (assuming such a machine is possible to build in the first place!)
> 
> If aliens has such technology they'd have surely colonized the galaxy by now. Given the age of the Universe I find it fascinating and more than a little unsettling that we haven't made first contact by now.


Artificial gravity would be useful as hell for space travel. Not only for space travel, but in general too. We could make orbital farms, for instance, which would increase the amount of farming space immensely. 

Would be very useful for space stations too for that matter. Don't need to spin around its own axis in order to create a crude form of gravity(centrifugal force).


----------



## Keefur (Apr 8, 2019)

Telnac said:


> We have a pretty good handle on magnetism. If we didn't the modern world couldn't exist. Gravity, on the other hand, is a head-scratcher. It was the first force we discovered and yet we still don't have a good theory of where it comes from and why it behaves the way it does. We need to know that before we'll be able to build anything like an anti-gravity machine (assuming such a machine is possible to build in the first place!)
> 
> If aliens has such technology they'd have surely colonized the galaxy by now. Given the age of the Universe I find it fascinating and more than a little unsettling that we haven't made first contact by now.


I don't think we really have a good handle on magnetism.  We understand that it is a force, but we really don't understand what it is.  Magnetism does strange things, like when you drop a magnet down a copper tube, it doesn't free fall.  As far as understanding gravity, we don't really understand it either, but I think a breakthrough will come through some "happy accident" during experimentation somewhere.

If aliens had that technology, they wouldn't necessarily have colonized the galaxy by now.  There are untold billions of stars and planets.  You could put every single human being alone on their own planet and not even scratch the surface of the number of planets remaining.  Why would space aliens need to colonize every planet?


----------



## Faexie (Apr 8, 2019)

Telnac said:


> We have a pretty good handle on magnetism. If we didn't the modern world couldn't exist. Gravity, on the other hand, is a head-scratcher. It was the first force we discovered and yet we still don't have a good theory of where it comes from and why it behaves the way it does. We need to know that before we'll be able to build anything like an anti-gravity machine (assuming such a machine is possible to build in the first place!)
> 
> If aliens has such technology they'd have surely colonized the galaxy by now. Given the age of the Universe I find it fascinating and more than a little unsettling that we haven't made first contact by now.


Who knows, maybe they already discovered us, but we're actually the only civilised species that didn't made contact with an alien species.

Maybe they want to keep it that way, to study how a civilisation evolves without the help of a more advanced one. 

Or maybe we're not ready yet, since we would most likely freak out if they showed up, and react agressively.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 8, 2019)

Or we are just too violent and they dont want to take the risk.

Even accounting for not going the speed of light, it is unusual by mathematics, that no one has an empire out there.

What boggles me is why we xpect to see a signal when most military signals from any given country are encrypted and set inside the galactic noise floor


----------



## Telnac (Apr 8, 2019)

Keefur said:


> I don't think we really have a good handle on magnetism.  We understand that it is a force, but we really don't understand what it is.  Magnetism does strange things, like when you drop a magnet down a copper tube, it doesn't free fall.  As far as understanding gravity, we don't really understand it either, but I think a breakthrough will come through some "happy accident" during experimentation somewhere.
> 
> If aliens had that technology, they wouldn't necessarily have colonized the galaxy by now.  There are untold billions of stars and planets.  You could put every single human being alone on their own planet and not even scratch the surface of the number of planets remaining.  Why would space aliens need to colonize every planet?


Yes it may be strange that a magnet slows down when you drop it in a copper tube but we know why that happens. We know the force carrier particle (the photon.) We know that electric and magnetic fields are essentially one and the same, but perpendicular to each other. We know how to generate electric and magnetic fields. We also know that at high enough temperatures and pressures, the electro- magnetic force merges with both the strong and weak nuclear forces. Yes there are some things we still don't know but we know far more about magnetism than we do gravity.

Gravity seems to behave very differently than the other known forces. We know how objects behave in a gravitational field very well but that's about where our understanding of it ends. We have yet to detect the force carrier particle (the theoretical graviton) and a force carrier particle might not even exist. The dominant theory of gravitation (general relativity), which describes gravity as not a true force but a curve in space-time, is irreconcilable with quantum mechanics. There are many theories on how the two concepts can be reconciled but none have been proven and several may be unprovable.

As for why would aliens would colonize the galaxy, there's no real good reason why they wouldn't. Even if they decide to stay at home all it takes it one small group of genetically diverse individuals who decide to break away and form a colony and before those on the home system can find out about it, the species dominates two star systems. Even if it takes 100,000 years to go from small colony to sending out more colonies, the wave of colonization would spread over the whole galaxy in a geological blink of an eye. Even without faster than light travel, even if it takes a billion years to colonize a galaxy, the galaxy has been around for more than 13 billion years. That's plenty of time for a few rogue colonists to have multiplied and spread and spread and spread to cover every rock you can possibly put a colonist onto.

The idea that we haven't seen aliens yet because they don't want us to may be popular in science fiction but it doesn't seem very realistic. We're getting better and better and finding the chemical signatures of both life and technology in the atmospheres of worlds in distant star systems. We can already tell how fast an alien world is spinning by its heat signature. Advanced civilizations would emit lots of waste heat. If they're hiding it's likely we'll see them before long.

The only two viable theories I see for aliens are equally frightening: they all ultimately destroy themselves or we're the first one (at least in this galaxy.)


----------



## Bluefiremark II (Apr 8, 2019)

Well, the thing is humans ALSO got where we are duo to our opposable thumbs, being able to grasp, and not only graso but use that grasp to do things. Tentacles while can grasp, can't hit with a hammer as hard as a human can. So i think part of the reason aliens are always shown as humanoid is because the humanoid form is the dominant traits that allow for civilization building.


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 8, 2019)

I think most aliens are shown as humanoid because it means making costumes is easier! ;]


----------



## Attaman (Apr 8, 2019)

On the subject of non-humanoid aliens, insert a requisite plug for Abiogenesis here.


----------



## PercyD (Apr 8, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> I think most aliens are shown as humanoid because it means making costumes is easier! ;]


Such weakness-
GIVE ME CELPHILOPOD COW CREATURES WHO ARE SENSITIVE AND CREATIVE!


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 8, 2019)

PercyD said:


> Such weakness-
> GIVE ME CELPHILOPOD COW CREATURES WHO ARE SENSITIVE AND CREATIVE!



You just reminded me of the alien race of 'mummy cows' in Stephen Baxter's novels lol.


----------



## PercyD (Apr 8, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> You just reminded me of the alien race of 'mummy cows' in Stephen Baxter's novels lol.


Stephen Baxter sounds strong and willing.


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 8, 2019)

If aliens looked like cattle, would we be _udderly _surprised?


----------



## Keefur (Apr 8, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Yes it may be strange that a magnet slows down when you drop it in a copper tube but we know why that happens. We know the force carrier particle (the photon.) We know that electric and magnetic fields are essentially one and the same, but perpendicular to each other. We know how to generate electric and magnetic fields. We also know that at high enough temperatures and pressures, the electro- magnetic force merges with both the strong and weak nuclear forces. Yes there are some things we still don't know but we know far more about magnetism than we do gravity.
> 
> Gravity seems to behave very differently than the other known forces. We know how objects behave in a gravitational field very well but that's about where our understanding of it ends. We have yet to detect the force carrier particle (the theoretical graviton) and a force carrier particle might not even exist. The dominant theory of gravitation (general relativity), which describes gravity as not a true force but a curve in space-time, is irreconcilable with quantum mechanics. There are many theories on how the two concepts can be reconciled but none have been proven and several may be unprovable.
> 
> ...



We actually don't know why magnetism happens.  It is described as as follows: *Magnetism* is one aspect of the combined electromagnetic force. It refers to physical phenomena arising from the force caused by magnets, objects that produce fields that attract or repel other objects.
Phenomena are things that have no definite description of why they occur. As far as being able to colonize the universe with one species, I can't see that happening any time soon.  It takes several billion years for planets to form and stabelize.  Earth is a little over 4 billion years old.  The initial suns would have to burn out/turn super nova to generate the materials that could create life.  That could take several billion years.  Then life would have to evolve to the point where star travel would be possible.  Another billion years or so.  Then you have to figure that this race would have to propogate themselves to be able to fill all those billions of planets after they spent who knows how long to find the planets by exploration.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 8, 2019)

Telnac said:


> Yes it may be strange that a magnet slows down when you drop it in a copper tube but we know why that happens. We know the force carrier particle (the photon.) We know that electric and magnetic fields are essentially one and the same, but perpendicular to each other. We know how to generate electric and magnetic fields. We also know that at high enough temperatures and pressures, the electro- magnetic force merges with both the strong and weak nuclear forces. Yes there are some things we still don't know but we know far more about magnetism than we do gravity.
> 
> Gravity seems to behave very differently than the other known forces. We know how objects behave in a gravitational field very well but that's about where our understanding of it ends. We have yet to detect the force carrier particle (the theoretical graviton) and a force carrier particle might not even exist. The dominant theory of gravitation (general relativity), which describes gravity as not a true force but a curve in space-time, is irreconcilable with quantum mechanics. There are many theories on how the two concepts can be reconciled but none have been proven and several may be unprovable.
> 
> ...



I cast my vote to the great filter being the reason why.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 8, 2019)

Keefur said:


> We actually don't know why magnetism happens.  It is described as as follows: *Magnetism* is one aspect of the combined electromagnetic force. It refers to physical phenomena arising from the force caused by magnets, objects that produce fields that attract or repel other objects.
> Phenomena are things that have no definite description of why they occur. As far as being able to colonize the universe with one species, I can't see that happening any time soon.  It takes several billion years for planets to form and stabelize.  Earth is a little over 4 billion years old.  The initial suns would have to burn out/turn super nova to generate the materials that could create life.  That could take several billion years.  Then life would have to evolve to the point where star travel would be possible.  Another billion years or so.  Then you have to figure that this race would have to propogate themselves to be able to fill all those billions of planets after they spent who knows how long to find the planets by exploration.



50 million years at our fastest speed, 2 billion years at .005% the speed of light, which is achievable.  Also why the Fermi Paradox is a thing.

I am going with our technology isn't mature enough and we use light speed transmission and not superluminal.  It's impractical to get a signal to the nearest stars


----------



## Foxy Emy (Apr 8, 2019)

I like the idea of non traditional forms of life which adds a whole new aspect to things.

For example, thought creatures that lack any physical form and simply occupy their hosts mind for a while before the host communicates the thought, and it replicates itself and mutates into a slightly new version of itself.

In other words, sentient memes.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 8, 2019)

All human broadcasts cover the blue dot.  now think of how long to receive a reply.


----------



## PercyD (Apr 8, 2019)

Minerva_Minx said:


> All human broadcasts cover the blue dot.  now think of how long to receive a reply.


The problem is that neither us nor the aliens are using that sweet, low latency, fiber optic network.
Or at least, we aren't. We're probably getting all sort of light messages but we don't have the tech yet.


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Apr 8, 2019)

What if aliens existed on other planets nearby like Mars, but they were invisible as we cannot see them due to our eyes not being able to see them for some reason?

I wanted to say "What if there were anthro furry aliens" But I'm sure we'd all know Elon Musk would go straight after those cat girls.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 8, 2019)

No, problem is they dont play CoD.  but then again, it could be Cthulu lol


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 8, 2019)

PercyD said:


> The problem is that neither us nor the aliens are using that sweet, low latency, fiber optic network.
> Or at least, we aren't. We're probably getting all sort of light messages but we don't have the tech yet.



Radio waves travel at the speed of light in the vacuum of space, only way around that speed barrier would be quantum communication.


----------



## Telnac (Apr 8, 2019)

Keefur said:


> We actually don't know why magnetism happens.  It is described as as follows: *Magnetism* is one aspect of the combined electromagnetic force. It refers to physical phenomena arising from the force caused by magnets, objects that produce fields that attract or repel other objects.
> Phenomena are things that have no definite description of why they occur. As far as being able to colonize the universe with one species, I can't see that happening any time soon.  It takes several billion years for planets to form and stabelize.  Earth is a little over 4 billion years old.  The initial suns would have to burn out/turn super nova to generate the materials that could create life.  That could take several billion years.  Then life would have to evolve to the point where star travel would be possible.  Another billion years or so.  Then you have to figure that this race would have to propogate themselves to be able to fill all those billions of planets after they spent who knows how long to find the planets by exploration.


www.merriam-webster.com: Definition of PHENOMENON

*Definition of phenomenon*

1 plural phenomena : an observable fact or event
2 plural phenomena

a: an object or aspect known through the senses rather than by thought or intuition
b: a temporal or spatiotemporalobject of sensory experience as distinguished from a noumenon
c: a fact or event of scientific interest susceptible to scientific description and explanation

3 a: a rare or significant fact or event
bplural phenomenons : an exceptional, unusual, or abnormal person, thing, or occurrence

In the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition, the preferred definition of phenomenon is simply an observable event. Describing something as a phenomenon, especially when one is describing something in science, doesn't imply that the cause of the phenomenon is in doubt. No, we don't know everything there is to know about magnetism but that doesn't mean we don't know a heck of a lot about it.  We certainly understand magnetism far better than we do gravity.  We have been able to make artificial magnets for hundreds of years.  True artificial gravity continues to elude us.  And no, spin gravity doesn't count.

You are correct in observing that rocky worlds took billions of years to come into being and and billions more to create an intelligent, technological, species on this world. Given that the stellar era is expected to last 100 trillion years or so, it is entirely possible that we're the first to arise (in this galaxy, at least.) Frankly, that scares me more than finding out were just latest of billions of intelligent species. If we're the first and we avoid killing ourselves, we'll be the ones colonizing the galaxy. We'll set the standard for all the intelligent species who emerge after us to follow.

May God help us all if that's the case!


----------



## PercyD (Apr 8, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> Radio waves travel at the speed of light in the vacuum of space, only way around that speed barrier would be quantum communication.


_Obviously, we need that sweet sweet, low latency, quantum optic fiber-_


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Apr 8, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> Radio waves travel at the speed of light in the vacuum of space, only way around that speed barrier would be quantum communication.


That picture followed by what you said gives me 4chan vibes and it's weird.
Only 4chan can be so silly yet be so intelligent.


----------



## Ramjet (Apr 8, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4™ said:


> That picture followed by what you said gives me 4chan vibes and it's weird.
> Only 4chan can be so silly yet be so intelligent.




Who is that hacker named 4chan?We always hear so much about him/her



To be serious though if a species was intelligent enough to break through the great filter and start using other worlds and stars to increase their carrying capacity, would they even keep their carbon based life form at that point?Or would they opt to go digital?
Maybe even being one with the universe in the form of information itself as some theories suggest might be at the root of our universe.

I love these sort of thought experiments.


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Apr 9, 2019)

Ramjet556 said:


> Who is that hacker named 4chan?We always hear so much about him/her
> 
> 
> 
> ...







To be honest I think it'd be a complex choice, as they'd be intelligent enough to be able to debate whenever or not it's a good idea to. After all intelligence would allow them to decide if it's benefical or not, but they may not have the emotions nor feelings that say despite it being a bad idea in terms of being benefical, it'll be great fun and allows more freedom than the real world. 
After all, some people seek knowledge, other people want to have fun.

Therefore, I propose we start the development on uploading the human brain into the digital world and be able to manlipilate code to create stuff. 
And I'll be able to create my furry husbandos so I can have people who'll actually love me.

Part of me thinks that one day we'll go digital, I'm not saying it'll be anytime now nor soon, but we'll eventually get there and we'll all live online and have robots that create more servers and disk space for us.
But by the god I hope we don't get server lag.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 9, 2019)

What if we're in like galactic jail and that's why our civilization is run by idiots?

What if Earth just dropped the soap, too, while we were at it?


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Apr 9, 2019)

Minerva_Minx said:


> What if we're in like galactic jail and that's why our civilization is run by idiots?
> 
> What if Earth just dropped the soap, too, while we were at it?


That... That explains alot.

The day the sun explodes is the day we drop the soap. Or when another universe collides and we all violently die.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 9, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4™ said:


> That... That explains alot.
> 
> The day the sun explodes is the day we drop the soap. Or when another universe collides and we all violently die.



No, that's when the human race finally gets the keys to the universe and we take it for a road trip to celebrate..


----------



## Fruitythebeetle (Apr 9, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4™ said:


> What if aliens existed on other planets nearby like Mars, but they were invisible as we cannot see them due to our eyes not being able to see them for some reason?
> 
> I wanted to say "What if there were anthro furry aliens" But I'm sure we'd all know Elon Musk would go straight after those cat girls.




that's an interesting as heck premise that i'm gonna steal now.


----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Apr 9, 2019)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> that's an interesting as heck premise that i'm gonna steal now.


You seem to of not noticed the glock.
Allow me to cock it so you notice it.


----------



## Fruitythebeetle (Apr 9, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4™ said:


> You seem to of not noticed the glock.
> Allow me to cock it so you notice it.


i meant the former actually but the latter is good too.


----------



## Foxy Emy (Apr 9, 2019)

The day we can truly explore the universe is the day we realize that what makes us us is not our bodies, but our information.

Then we can transmit that information faster than light through a quantum entanglement data stream and download ourselves to distant places.

The only cost is that our old bodies are vaporized and new ones take their places wherever we teleported to.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 9, 2019)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> The day we can truly explore the universe is the day we realize that what makes us us is not our bodies, but our information.
> 
> Then we can transmit that information faster than light through a quantum entanglement data stream and download ourselves to distant places.
> 
> The only cost is that our old bodies are vaporized and new ones take their places wherever we teleported to.




Oooh, existential self destruction.  is the teleported you really you?


----------



## Faexie (Apr 9, 2019)

Minerva_Minx said:


> Oooh, existential self destruction.  is the teleported you really you?


If the desintegration part of the process fails but the reconstruction part succeeds (meaning that you didn't get disintegrated but a copy of you has been created somewhere else), would the two of you actually be you, or would the reconstructed person simply be a clone?


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Apr 9, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> If the desintegration part of the process fails but the reconstruction part succeeds (meaning that you didn't get disintegrated but a copy of you has been created somewhere else), would the two of you actually be you, or would the reconstructed person simply be a clone?


What if it messed up because an animal was caught in the beam with you and you became a furry representative of Earth?

Or, if you and you partner became that world's Adam and Eve?


----------

