# Tips for Attracting Attention



## M. LeRenard (Dec 16, 2009)

Seems like a lot of folks have been complaining lately about not being able to garner many views or critiques by using the stickied threads.  I just wanted to point out that this may not be caused entirely by the setup of those threads.  Here are some tips for getting people to look at your work.

1.) Use proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation.
When you request a critique, you're saying, "Please help me improve my writing!"  That said, if you don't even bother to proofread your post asking for a critique on a piece, people are going to naturally assume that your piece is going to look a lot like your post.  This is a turnoff, because it implies immediately that you barely spent any time on your work, and now you're asking for others to fix it.  Give a good first impression.

2.) Don't be too wordy.
You might think it's safe to assume that writers are also readers, and so any length request is going to be okay, because writers just love to read.  Well, it's not true.  If your post requesting a critique is long, people will skip over it out of laziness.  They just will; no question about it.  So by keeping it short, more people will catch more information at a glance, and this will attract more readers, statistically speaking.

(From Stratadrake) 2b) Avoid copy/pasting actual novel text into your post. Submit it to your art gallery and provide a URL for convenience. This keeps your forum post shorter and cleaner, avoids confusion over what is or is not part of the material you want critiqued, and allows the work to be seen across more than just the forums exclusively.

3.) Pretend to be a novice.
Or just be a novice.  Seriously... people love to give advice to others less experienced than they are, so if you imply that you're very new to writing, people will be sympathetic and try to help you out.  Of course, this won't work all the time, but if you think you can get away with it, try.

4.) Have an interesting story.
This one is kind of a no-brainer, but it's not easy to get right.  Fact is, with any piece of writing that you want others to read, for any reason at all, you will get more attention if your work stands out.  Avoid clichÃ©s in your genre, come up with fascinating characters, give it an unusual writing style, whatever.  Do something you think will make it more intriguing.

4b.) Have an interesting post.
The same applies to your request.  Make your writing stand out right from the get-go.  If people like how you write on the forums, imagine how much they're going to like your actual writing!

5.) Be patient and be persistent.
We're restarting the critique thread every two months now, so if you feel that your story didn't get enough critiques for its first run, post another request.  If you think two months is a long time to wait, you've obviously never tried to get anything published.

6.) Give other people critiques.
Yes, you who complain about not getting enough attention: have you asked yourself how much attention you give others?  If you critique enough stories, your name will become more familiar, and by association your work will get more attention.  Make it a habit to look over others' work every time you post a request yourself.

7.) Don't ask for critiques of long works.
Fact is, if you start your post saying, "I want someone to critique my 150,000 word novel," you will get no critiques.  We aren't professionally paid for this, guys, so we don't want to spend weeks or months on something that isn't ours.

(From PT) 8.) Post in plain text and not as an attachment, so people can see what they're getting with one click on the link.

(The following 4 from Murphy Z) 9.) Write lots of stuff. The more you write, the more likely you'll connect with someone.

10.) Find other people with similar interests. Furry fiction has lots of sub-genres and you should find another author who likes the same things and you might get a back and forth between each other with your stories. (it also gives you a heads up on the competition)

11.) Use lots of relevent keywords so people can find your story when searching

12.) When you submit a story, find a neat looking jpeg. It might grab someone's attention on the "new story" section of FA. 

(Next two from SSJ3) 13.) Check that the formatting you plan to submit in is compatible with the site or forum you are submitting on in advance.

14.) Respond to feedback and (if it's consistently poignant and accurate) correct the things that are suggested.

Edit: I've added suggestions from other posters.


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## Atrak (Dec 16, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> 7.) Don't ask for critiques of long works.
> Fact is, if you start your post saying, "I want someone to critique my 150,000 word novel," you will get no critiques.  We aren't professionally paid for this, guys, so we don't want to spend weeks or months on something that isn't ours.
> 
> That's all I've got.  I'd like others to add to this list, if they would.




If you have this problem, you could break it down by chapters or segments. They won't get turned off reading the first chapter/segment, and if it's interesting enough, they'll feel the need to keep reading. If it's not, they'll explain why it's not, and you may need to rewrite it to make it better, but don't do that for just one or two people. Personally, if it got to that point, I'd leave it as is and take what I learned and apply it to my next story ^^ .


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## TakeWalker (Dec 16, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> 8.) Give other people critiques.





M. Le Renard said:


> 9.) Give other people critiques.





M. Le Renard said:


> *10.) Give other people critiques.*



If you're all take and no give, don't expect to get jack.

And also don't assume that if you give out a single response to someone, that person is going to respond in kind. Spread yourself out. Get to know the writing community here, it's fairly large and there are a number of groups within it. Ain't nobody else gonna care enough about your writing to comment on it.


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## Xipoid (Dec 16, 2009)

TakeWalker said:


> If you're all take and no give, don't expect to get jack.
> 
> And also don't assume that if you give out a single response to someone, that person is going to respond in kind. Spread yourself out. Get to know the writing community here, it's fairly large and there are a number of groups within it. Ain't nobody else gonna care enough about your writing to comment on it.



He's right you know. You don't want to end up like me.






M. Le Renard said:


> 6.) Give other people critiques.


 
 This is my problem. I don't believe myself to be qualified enough to give any sort of meaningful critique. Not to mention, I tend to be very picky with what I read. It has sort of left me as an island, yet I am not entirely dismayed. Perhaps it is because I only see my writing as a fun little thing to do on the side or that I've built myself this specious Xanadu.


 I believe I shall make plans for the apocalypse. I just need to find the harbinger.


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## Atrak (Dec 17, 2009)

I could be the harbinger  . Btw, buy lots of beans. You'll get sick of them, but they last a long time ^^ . Want an MRE?

Btw, Xanadu was a good movie, but I haven't seen it in years, probably a decade  . I need to watch it again, as a decade is over half my life ^^ .


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## Duality Jack (Dec 17, 2009)

I only ask critques for something that would be under 3 pages.


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## Poetigress (Dec 17, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> Make it a habit to look over others' work every time you post a request yourself.



I hope it's made clear enough in the rules of the Critique Thread, but I do want to state yet again that when you put a story up for critique, you need to be critiquing 2 other works from that thread. That's the only way it's going to work. Otherwise, we're just going to have everybody posting and nobody critting.

And yes, #1 is very important, for critique and otherwise -- and don't expect to find an "editor" who's going to fix all your mistakes for you. Learn it yourself. I wish more brand-new writers who want to get published were as concerned about learning the basics of the craft as they are about being "original" and coming up with a great story premise. There are some readers on FA who will overlook major grammar and spelling issues if your story itself is good (I'm not one of them, BTW). There are _no_ editors or agents who will do this.

And if someone tells you in a crit that your story has a number of grammar or punctuation issues or the like, don't expect or request them to point every single instance out. Do your homework.

I would also suggest posting in plain text, not as an attachment, so people can see what they're getting with one click on the link.


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## Stratelier (Dec 17, 2009)

I would like to add:

2b - Avoid copy/pasting actual novel text into your post.  Submit it to your art gallery and provide a URL for convenience.  This keeps your forum post shorter and cleaner, avoids confusion over what is or is not part of the material you want critiqued, and allows the work to be seen across more than just the forums exclusively.


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## PheonixStar (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't think you need to be all that 'qualified' to do critiques. Just because I don't see ALL grammar or whatever issues doesn't mean that I can't be helpful about what I DO see. And you know, sometimes something can be better than nothing.

I don't really want critiques, I'll buy the services of a pro if I ever decide to publish. My ONLY point in posting stories is to give people something to enjoy and to share my passion (and the stories themselves). But I give a critique or two per day, just because I know how it feels to know that someone cares enough to at least try to help you out.

It's a form of encouragement, even though it might not seem like it on the surface. How can telling someone that they did something wrong be encouragement? It's also telling them that you care enough about them to pay attention, give them what they asked for, and do your best to help. It says, "somebody at least gives a shit" and it says, "somebody is willing to take a little time to try to help me."

You don't have to be all too 'qualified' to say, "i give a damn, maybe only a little bit, but I do."

And there's always something positive about a writing. Post that positive with your negative, even if it's only, "Your character Joebob made me laugh." A mix of "you could improve here," and "that part there was cool, though" can really make a person's day.

Not mine, though. LOL. I'm sensitive, so if the time ever comes, I only want to go through the wringer ONCE.

But not everyone feels that way, you know?


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## Xipoid (Dec 17, 2009)

I meant more about how I don't feel qualified to give qualitative critique. More of something like "____ was awkward. Try ____."

It's sort of a blind leading the blind moment. Grammar, however, I am perfectly fine with, but I don't see correcting grammar as a critique. It's more of just helpful proofreading to me.


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## PheonixStar (Dec 17, 2009)

Xipoid said:


> I meant more about how I don't feel qualified to give qualitative critique. More of something like "____ was awkward. Try ____."
> 
> It's sort of a blind leading the blind moment. Grammar, however, I am perfectly fine with, but I don't see correcting grammar as a critique. It's more of just helpful proofreading to me.



Well, I guess it's all relative. Some folks are great at it, some are... meh, not so hot. And I've noticed that a fair number of critique requests actually involve a bit more of the technical aspects than the "can you think of a way I could improve X or Y part of my story?" type requests.

I think everyone has their idea of what a critique is about, of course.


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## TakeWalker (Dec 17, 2009)

PheonixStar said:


> I think everyone has their idea of what a critique is about, of course.



Actally, grammar/spelling is editing at best, nitpicking at worst, and generally not considered to be critique. Fundamental structural issues are best left for final drafts, i.e., publication. If that's all you do when you critique, you're not being helpful.


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## PheonixStar (Dec 17, 2009)

TakeWalker said:


> Actally, grammar/spelling is editing at best, nitpicking at worst, and generally not considered to be critique. Fundamental structural issues are best left for final drafts, i.e., publication. If that's all you do when you critique, you're not being helpful.



I do that when that's what they ask about. Like, "people tell me that I have grammar and punctuation issues, and I would like help with that." From that person's standpoint, that's what they want for their 'critique.' 

I try to give what's asked when specifically asked. I won't break down all their errors, but I will tell them if there's something that they seem to be habitually violating.

I only give requested critiques in general, anyway. I would really hate to run someone off by telling them something could be done another way. Not all of us have flame-retardant suits on when we haven't asked for the flames, lol.

So again, I think people have different opinions on what a 'critique' is, as far as asking for one in such an arena as this. Yes, some people want grammar or structural help. That's their idea of a critique, and I don't mind at all helping them in that way, provided I can.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 17, 2009)

I like how this became a discussion about how to critique.


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## PheonixStar (Dec 17, 2009)

Hey, I'm focused!

What were we talking about, again?


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## foozzzball (Dec 17, 2009)

I'd like some attention whoring tips for gaining the attention of the general public. This seems mostly aimed at attention whoring with writers.


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## Atrak (Dec 17, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> I'd like some attention whoring tips for gaining the attention of the general public. This seems mostly aimed at attention whoring with writers.



You're right, we're not the general public, we're the 'Special Public.' ^^


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 17, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> I'd like some attention whoring tips for gaining the attention of the general public. This seems mostly aimed at attention whoring with writers.


So start a new thread to discuss it.


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## Duality Jack (Dec 17, 2009)

I usally just ask my pals on facebook now. Fuck you guys .
_

/this is my sense of humor if you are too thick to figure that_


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 17, 2009)

One of these days, I'll get around to critiquing your piece, Ace.


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## Duality Jack (Dec 17, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> One of these days, I'll get around to critiquing your piece, Ace.


 Its cool man. I actually would suggest waiting a bit I may have more of the concept draft done later.

On that note if I get board I think I will read some other peoples stuff.


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## Poetigress (Dec 17, 2009)

foozzzball said:


> I'd like some attention whoring tips for gaining the attention of the general public. This seems mostly aimed at attention whoring with writers.



Well, numbers 1, 4, and 5 still very much apply. And so does 6, sort of -- at least where sites like FA are concerned. People have to know you exist before they can want to read your stuff, and going where your audience is and interacting with them is the only way they'll know you're there.


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## TakeWalker (Dec 17, 2009)

PheonixStar said:


> I do that when that's what they ask about. Like, "people tell me that I have grammar and punctuation issues, and I would like help with that." From that person's standpoint, that's what they want for their 'critique.'



Well, then you hit the wall of, "They should fucking know better/know that writing _proper_ and writing _well_ are two different beasts." 

Of course, if they're still learning structure... Fuck that, they should be in English class, I don't care if it's L1 or ESL. >:[ That's my fucking job, they can pay me $14/hr and I'll teach 'em how to use standard English grammar and spelling.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't expect anyone to know grammar these days, honestly.  Fact is... it's not taught.  It's considered 'out of style', and is shoved aside so that students can 'be free to express themselves' and other hippie bullshit.  So if people want grammar help, I give it to them, because I know they're not gonna' get it anywhere else.
Or I tell them which books to read so they can study it themselves.  It's much easier that way.  But context still helps much more than just reading a book about it.


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## Atrak (Dec 18, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> I don't expect anyone to know grammar these days, honestly.  Fact is... it's not taught.  It's considered 'out of style', and is shoved aside so that students can 'be free to express themselves' and other hippie bullshit.  So if people want grammar help, I give it to them, because I know they're not gonna' get it anywhere else.
> Or I tell them which books to read so they can study it themselves.  It's much easier that way.  But context still helps much more than just reading a book about it.



You serious? I learned grammar!!  You saying all those years learning grammar rules, only to have them change them the next year were all for nothing? NOooooooooooooooooooo................

Public School Systems lied to me...again!


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## Murphy Z (Dec 18, 2009)

Some more suggestions:

Write lots of stuff. The more you write, the more likely you'll connect with someone.

Find other people with similar interests. Furry fiction has lots of sub-genres and you should find another author who likes the same things and you might get a back and forth between each other with your stories. (it also gives you a heads up on the competition)

Use lots of relevent keywords so people can find your story when searching

When you submit a story, find a neat looking jpeg. It might grab someone's attention on the "new story" section of FA. 

I heard red borders attract lots of attention


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 18, 2009)

I ought to do an experiment one of these days, and write a story that I post to FA under general rating, but give it an icon with a red border that's painted on.  See how many views it gets.


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## Xipoid (Dec 18, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> I ought to do an experiment one of these days, and write a story that I post to FA under general rating, but give it an icon with a red border that's painted on.  See how many views it gets.




You'll just make yourself sad.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 18, 2009)

Xipoid said:


> You'll just make yourself sad.


Probably, but in the end I would get more pageviews, so I would win in that respect.
Also, apparently I need to watch what I write, or I might just get quoted in somebody's signature saying something that's hilarious out of context.


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## Xipoid (Dec 18, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> Probably, but in the end I would get more pageviews, so I would win in that respect.




If you mislead people, they might feel cheated when they realize your story don't contain any adult material and possibly resolve themselves never to return (which might not be bad considering the audience you are trying to appeal to). I suppose you might actually hook a few who realize there is some well written thing before them that impossibly contains no smut.




M. Le Renard said:


> Also, apparently I need to watch what I write, or I might just get quoted in somebody's signature saying something that's hilarious out of context.



I believe we had a conversation about this regarding your use of Hoopernanny, though this one is far more inappropriate outside of its context.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 18, 2009)

I think the thumbnails for stories in general are a problem with advertising.  The generic 'Story' thumbnail doesn't do anything for you and using some piece of art doesn't really work as a 'cover' because 120x120 to work with.  So when someone does use a thumbnail, you see either tiny unremarkable furry art (And often stolen from other artists, though this more frequently afflicts the music thumbnails) or an iron that uses large clear text to list off the included fetishes.  From an advertising perspective the fetish list thumbnails are the only ones that seem to really work but that doesn't work if your not listing pokemon inflation child sex stories.

That's probably the same reason I see some effectiveness with these thumbnails that I use:






Honestly, it catches a potential reader's attention than some 120x120 image of a talking dog wearing a hat or something.  It'd be cooler if you could attach larger art to text submissions and do real 'cover art' for your stories.  When the viewer is 'rewarded' with a piece of art, he could be more likely to read the text to find out what the characters in the art are all about.


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## duroc (Dec 18, 2009)

This really isn't a tip, it's more of a personal observation, but one thing that will turn me off of reading somebody's stories faster than a greased cheetah strapped to a bullet train, is a person who whines and complains about people not reading their stories. 

If you post in forums, or in journals, or wherever, and you constantly complain or come across as negative about the fandom being a visual medium and that nobody reads anything around here, that(at least for me)comes across as a huge turn off.  I will avoid your work like the plague if you do that.  

Be positive, and above all, please have patience.  If you put in the effort and become an active member of the writing community in all possible areas, that will go a heck of a long way.  That's because it's not only about doing things to help yourself, but helping others and the writing community as a whole.  

Poetigress wrote a journal that touched on this subject some time ago, and it covers the idea a lot better.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/622287/


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 18, 2009)

On the topic of getting attention.  Has anyone considdered looking into not doing TEXT for your story submissions?  With the furry fandom being a media savy fandom I've been considdering the practicalities of audio books.


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## Poetigress (Dec 18, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> On the topic of getting attention.  Has anyone considdered looking into not doing TEXT for your story submissions?  With the furry fandom being a media savy fandom I've been considdering the practicalities of audio books.



A number of people do. Easiest way to find things is to have a look here:

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/audio-stories

Most of the faves lately are Will Sanborn's Anthro Dreams podcast, but there other audio submissions (fiction and poetry, I believe) faved there as well. And although I haven't had time to listen to any of it, I know robotechtiger has been doing a podcast novel, which is also listed on Podiobooks.com.

IMO it's a good way to expand your audience, but there are people who don't like audio, so I don't know that I would rely on it exclusively. I think it's also very important to find a good reader. The listener is going to be spending quite a bit of time with them, and if something about them is cheesy or irritating somehow, you run the risk of the listener ditching your story no matter how good the text is.


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## Poetigress (Dec 18, 2009)

duroc said:


> Poetigress wrote a journal that touched on this subject some time ago, and it covers the idea a lot better.
> 
> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/622287/



Wow, that was a blast from the past.  I was curious to see if my opinions had shifted any from when I first wrote it, and with the exception of getting completely fed up with the Ursa Major structure and process, I think everything else I said there pretty much still stands.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 18, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:
			
		

> It'd be cooler if you could attach larger art to text submissions and do real 'cover art' for your stories.


I would totally be all for that.  I suppose you could do that kind of thing now, in a way, but your story would have to be .doc or .pdf format, which means people would have to download it, which would defeat the purpose.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 18, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> I would totally be all for that. I suppose you could do that kind of thing now, in a way, but your story would have to be .doc or .pdf format, which means people would have to download it, which would defeat the purpose.


 
Right now when you click on a text submission it shows that 120x120 thumbnail at the top of the page.  It possibly wouldn't be too hard to get FA to show higher resolution images at that page.  ...You'd just need FA to impliment a new feature.  ...Oh wait, that'll never happen...


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 18, 2009)

I'll ask them to start implementing new features as soon as they get the old ones to start working again.
*cough*commission info*cough*


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## PheonixStar (Dec 18, 2009)

Gosh, I wish I could create my own professional level bookcovers.


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## Poetigress (Dec 18, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Right now when you click on a text submission it shows that 120x120 thumbnail at the top of the page.  It possibly wouldn't be too hard to get FA to show higher resolution images at that page.  ...You'd just need FA to impliment a new feature.  ...Oh wait, that'll never happen...



Someone requested that fairly recently, and it was turned down because of the increased bandwidth larger thumbnails would use. Although I'm not sure it was fully understood that the poster meant larger art simply on that page as opposed to larger thumbnails everywhere.

Honestly, I don't think having "cover art" for FA submissions is really going to do all that much more than a thumbnail does already. I can see having full-fledged art for something more like a true e-book, but on FA... eh. (I guess I tend to not get excited about the thumbnails because I've found that, for whatever reason, often the cooler the thumbnail art is, the more the story itself sucks.)

Regarding MLR's idea of putting a fake red border... I think the question we have to ask is, do we just want eyes on our submissions, or do we want _readers_? Is it really worth it to try to catch the attention of those types of FA users who have no attention span and/or only seek out work to masturbate to? For my part, if somebody's not going to be interested in looking at something of mine unless there's a big piece of eye-catching art with it (or unless they're tricked into it), I really don't think they're part of the audience I'm writing for, frankly. 

My thoughts on art and thumbnails boil down to this: I understand that we're all trying to get people's attention directed toward our work. Getting their attention is certainly the first step toward building an audience. But I think we also have to remember that you can use all kinds of flashy or snarky gimmicks to get somebody to click on something, but in the end, whether they stick around and read is going to come down to the story itself. Keeping their attention is just as important as getting it in the first place.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 18, 2009)

Poetigress said:
			
		

> For my part, if somebody's not going to be interested in looking at something of mine unless there's a big piece of eye-catching art with it (or unless they're tricked into it), I really don't think they're part of the audience I'm writing for, frankly.


No no, I agree with you.  I was just saying, hypothetically, I wonder how many more views a piece like that would get.  If I were to do it, it would be as an experiment rather than as a way to attract readers.
Because I don't think it would actually attract readers.


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## nybx4life (Dec 19, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> No no, I agree with you.  I was just saying, hypothetically, I wonder how many more views a piece like that would get.  If I were to do it, it would be as an experiment rather than as a way to attract readers.
> Because I don't think it would actually attract readers.



Nothing better to do than to try. After all, if it works, it might give an entirely different way people might want to upload their stories.


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## VÃ¶lf (Dec 19, 2009)

nybx4life said:


> Nothing better to do than to try. After all, if it works, it might give an entirely different way people might want to upload their stories.



You never know... you should definitely try it Renard.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 19, 2009)

Poetigress said:


> I understand that we're all trying to get people's attention directed toward our work. Getting their attention is certainly the first step toward building an audience. But I think we also have to remember that you can use all kinds of flashy or snarky gimmicks to get somebody to click on something, but in the end, whether they stick around and read is going to come down to the story itself. Keeping their attention is just as important as getting it in the first place.


 
Renard's plan itself wouldn't work to increase his readerbase.  It's basically a bait and switch and while it'll earn page views I doubt it'll get many, if any, actually stopping to read.

Maybe my icon is snarky but it actually has been effective in getting readers.  It stands out and basicaly says 'Hey you, a gay furry story that isn't some angsty kids masturbatory fantasy and I have a sense of humor about it! '  So it works in actually getting people who'd be interested in that kinda thing.

Similarly, I think if higher resolution art were possible it could work for advertising.  With the art on topic, maybe and interesting image of the main characters, people could be more interested in finding out about those characters by reading the stories.

THen agian, I'd be happy as a clam if I just had an artist to PROVIDE a piece of art for every chapter.


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## ScottyDM (Dec 21, 2009)

Someone mentioned finding art to use with your stories.

If you aren't an artist, or don't have one in your back pocket, where can you find a legal source of photos?

Go to Flickr's advanced search page. Down near the bottom check the boxes for "Only search within *Creative Commons*-licensed content" and "Find content to modify, adapt, or build upon" (since you'll most likely be cropping, scaling, and adding text--which is modification). Of course fill out the search terms and click "SEARCH". Note that some CC licenses require attribution of the photographer, so it's best if you keep track of where you got your photos.

Anyway, check out Flickr. And I'm sure there are other artwork "warehouses" that have search with CC license criteria.


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## Raska (Dec 21, 2009)

Won't some people just _not_ read a story if they have to download it, whether it's DOC, PDF, or whatever besides TXT? Wouldn't this account for a lot of non-readership?

Personally, though, my stories don't look right in TXT format, 'cause ASCII doesn't do accented characters (if it does, I don't know how to format it or set things up so it does), so I use PDF. I'm just wondering if the format makes an appreciable difference in readership.


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## Xipoid (Dec 21, 2009)

Raska said:


> Won't some people just _not_ read a story if they have to download it, whether it's DOC, PDF, or whatever besides TXT? Wouldn't this account for a lot of non-readership?
> 
> Personally, though, my stories don't look right in TXT format, 'cause ASCII doesn't do accented characters (if it does, I don't know how to format it or set things up so it does), so I use PDF. I'm just wondering if the format makes an appreciable difference in readership.




Use UTF-8. It should include any character you could possibly need without some very specialized writing.

In Notepad:
Go to save as. There should be a drop down box that says "Encoding:" next to it. One of the options should be UTF-8.

In Word:
Go to save as and change the file type to plain text. Hit save as, and then it should pop up a box that asks for some details. The top one should say "Text encoding:"; look for Unicode (UTF-8).

This method is essentially the same for most programs that I am mildly familiar with or aware of.


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## Raska (Dec 21, 2009)

Xipoid said:


> Use UTF-8. It should include any character you could possibly need without some very specialized writing.
> 
> In Notepad:
> Go to save as. There should be a drop down box that says "Encoding:" next to it. One of the options should be UTF-8.
> ...


 
duly noted...but PDF looks so pretty...back to my original question: _does_ format make an appreciable difference in readership?

EDIT: I just tried this...and thanks for the advice! All the rest of my stories are in PDF, though, and I stupidly deleted the original DOC formats, so I can't go back through and change 'em, but I figure that if someone likes the story I'm working on now and/or my future stories enough, they won't mind having to download the older ones.


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## ScottyDM (Dec 21, 2009)

Raska said:


> All the rest of my stories are in PDF, though, and I stupidly deleted the original DOC formats, so I can't go back through and change 'em....


Dude, don't _do_ that. It's no different than a programmer deleting the source code after compiling his program.


Well, you're not the only one. I don't understand this "burn your bridges" mentality when it is dead simple to save your old files.


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## Raska (Dec 21, 2009)

ScottyDM said:


> Dude, don't _do_ that. It's no different than a programmer deleting the source code after compiling his program.
> 
> 
> Well, you're not the only one. I don't understand this "burn your bridges" mentality when it is dead simple to save your old files.


 
That's why I said 'stupidly'. I don't normally delete stuff, and the only reason I can come up with for why I did it then was that a lot of people on FA seemed to really hate DOC files, so it didn't seem there was a reason to keep them.  

And just to point out, it's a little bit different than a programmer deleting his source code. At the end of _that, _he only ends up with the executable version that can't be edited (unless you know bytecode / machine language). Deleting older formats of one's story is different, because you can still edit the stuff in whatever new format you've got.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 21, 2009)

Raska said:


> I just tried this...and thanks for the advice! All the rest of my stories are in PDF, though, and I stupidly deleted the original DOC formats, so I can't go back through and change 'em, but I figure that if someone likes the story I'm working on now and/or my future stories enough, they won't mind having to download the older ones.


 
Why not go into Adobe Acrobat or whatever your viewer is and do the ol 'Copy-Paste' between that and a text editor?  You'll likely need to do some reformatting to clean it up but you'll get all of the TEXT.


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## Raska (Dec 21, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Why not go into Adobe Acrobat or whatever your viewer is and do the ol 'Copy-Paste' between that and a text editor? You'll likely need to do some reformatting to clean it up but you'll get all of the TEXT.


 
I feel stupid now. Still, the reformatting's gonna be a bitch. I just tried this out, and it's not 'some' reformatting, it's 'a bunch of' reformatting.


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## Xipoid (Dec 21, 2009)

Raska said:


> duly noted...but PDF looks so pretty...back to my original question: _does_ format make an appreciable difference in readership?




The general consensus seems to be that if you provide your story on the page as opposed to a downloadable file, more people will actually read the thing.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 22, 2009)

There's no reason you can't post the story in .pdf format, but with the .txt version in the description.  That way people can start to read without having to download, but if they're interested they can get the nice version.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 22, 2009)

Xipoid said:


> The general consensus seems to be that if you provide your story on the page as opposed to a downloadable file, more people will actually read the thing.


 
Honestly, I've never done that and I've never had a problem with having what I think is a healthy reader base.  (Healthy when you considder what I'm posting and where).  Though I don't use PDFs I use RTFs for accessability.


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## Raska (Dec 22, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> There's no reason you can't post the story in .pdf format, but with the .txt version in the description. That way people can start to read without having to download, but if they're interested they can get the nice version.


 
If they can read the TXT version in the description, why would they bother downloading the PDF, except to see how I format when not constrained by TXT's drawbacks?


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Dec 22, 2009)

New rule to add:

-Check that the formatting you plan to submit in is compatible with the site or forum you are submitting on in advance.

Ignoring this has ruined potentially very entertaining selections of reading material, or at the very least caused a real headache for the writers when the problem has arisen after they've submitted.

Using forums as an example of *one* issue that comes up often (by no means the only one), check through the posts and see how spacing works.

Some forums support proper tabbing, so discerning the separate paragraphs within posts is easy and much more consistent with standard writing.  But many forums do not.  Instead they squish everything over to the left margin.  In order to start a new paragraph you have to double-space, then continue writing.  If you don't your post ends up looking like a jumbled mess that is very difficult for others to read.

Concerning stuff like the main site (and not just FA, but a legion of others), watch out for the format you submit in there as well.  You see this very often in stories where the text is displayed right on the submission page, and instead of a neat and orderly piece of reading material you find your eyes drawn to numerous little question-marks in black boxes through-out the text.

They're not there because the digital-media gods messed up.  They're caused by a formatting conflict between FA's system and 'smart-quotes'.

Smart-quotes are an effect created by many word-processing programs that curl apostrophes and quotation-marks to better bracket the text they're placed in and look more aesthetic for the readers.  But FA cannot display them properly, so you get an incorrect and distracting symbol instead.  

Many a submission that could otherwise have been a highly entertaining story gets marred by these little buggers.  Before you submit, highlight your text, go into your formatting option, and turn the little things off.

This leads into another rule I suggest be added:

-Respond to feedback and (if it's consistently poignant and accurate) correct the things that are suggested.

If you disagree with how someone feels something should be described, or what wordage to use, very well.  There's ALWAYS going to be stylistic differences between writers and readers, and you can never, flat out never, please everyone.  Tell the other person that (_politely_), and thank them for the opinion.

If you get a good number of comments all suggesting a similar change though, you might want to consider it as being genuinely good advice.  You're not asking for critique for no reason, after all.  Thank the users for pointing out what they pointed out.

Those responses are critical.  People don't like feeling as though they're talking to a ghost.  Acknowledge what is said and you'll encourage further dialog with whomever you're speaking with and others.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 22, 2009)

I'd say it's not exactly necessary to tell people which parts of their critique you're not going to use.  Sometimes it can be off-putting to do so, actually, no matter how polite you are about it.  I've found that the best policy is just to say, "Thanks for the critique.  I'll take your thoughts into consideration," and leave it at that.


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## GraemeLion (Dec 23, 2009)

I think I have to agree with an author friend of mine who stated that bad reviews and good reviews can both be helpful, but that it's not a good idea to respond to the negative reviews publicly.  It can burn you a lot more than not.    Learn from them, yes, absolutely.  But responding to them can put you into a piling on situation where you're on the receiving end.  Watch the reviews on Amazon for example.  Good reviews come in droves.. then one bad review comes in.  Suddenly, the bad reviews come in.

And ultimately, do not do as one author recently did.  When she saw her book was negatively reviewed she created a sockpuppet to respond to the negative reviews.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Dec 23, 2009)

That's one of the more extremely negatively done responses, yes.

But I agree with MLR's stance more.  I myself usually respond and at least say what comments are helpful and why, but if someone doesn't do that it's still better to just say 'thank you for the feedback'.


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## Atrak (Dec 23, 2009)

SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> That's one of the more extremely negatively done responses, yes.
> 
> But I agree with MLR's stance more.  I myself usually respond and at least say what comments are helpful and why, but if someone doesn't do that it's still better to just say 'thank you for the feedback'.



Exactly, because then you at least know it was interesting enough to read in the first place.


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