# Help Stop Wolf Killing in Oregon State!!!



## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

There is a petition to stop the current wolf killings in Oregon State. There is an ongoing struggle between wolf advocates and cattle farmers in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Washington and Oregon. This past year the Gray wolf was de-listed as a protected species in Idaho and Montana. For a mere $12 you can guy a hunting license for a wolf. Washington and Oregon are still fighting to repopulate the animals in areas were they once were frequent. As settlers moved west and ranged cattle farming grew, ranchers began decimating the packs that had once resided on what is now range land. In Oregon there are now only 14 known wolves in the ENTIRE state. 

The petition only needs about 3,000 more signatures of the initial 20,000 to make it pass. It only take a couple of minutes to help make Oregon re-evaluate their wolf management program! 

Again you can find the Petition here:  [url]www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/210/779/093/
[/URL]


Thank you all for your time.


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

Not entirely directed at the OP, but why are furries often so hell-bent on saving wolves and nothing but wolves? Why not every other endangered species out there with them? Aside from being in 99% of all furry porn, what makes wolves so fucking special compared to stuff like tigers, pandas, and tasmanian devils?


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## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

What is the current population of the wolves? I do not think a pre-settler wolf population would be sustainable in today's environment; they would run out of natural sources of food and either starve or be forced turn to domestic animals for sustenance. (I know that livestock predation by wolves is blown out of the proportion, but if they have nothing else to eat, come on.) Not to mention space issues. It is unfortunate but some culling may be necessary.

EDIT: Oh, I see the 14 thing now. That is really very dubious, please provide a your source for that information.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

I sure hope this isn't a "don't hunt wolves because they're hot and saxxy" petition.
I don't believe the 14 wolves in one state thing.


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## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

Saw the words "Help stop..." in the title and guessed it was an online petition.

Bingo.


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## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

Gibby: I believe that there are all kinds of species that should be helped, not just the wolves. I'm just bringing to the attention one current petition that it going on right now. Animals are very important to habitats all over the world. Wolves have been over hunted in the pacific northwest to the point of being wiped out. One man poached all but  the alpha male and another male pup from a very promising pack in Washington state. Those two wolves now have a very unlikely chance of surviving as it takes a pack to bring down large pray. Wolves are not very successful hunters to begin with. They only make about 1 in 10 kills successful. There are non lethal ways of dealing with conflict. 

Look at how coyotes are hunted for instance: do you think this kind of killing of any is necessary? 

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s28/derbyacresbob/IMG_0137.jpg


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

Are you familiar with the concept of population control and why it's done? 

At least people are already working to preserve wolves.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> Gibby: I believe that there are all kinds of species that should be helped, not just the wolves. I'm just bringing to the attention one current petition that it going on right now. Animals are very important to habitats all over the world. Wolves have been over hunted in the pacific northwest to the point of being wiped out. One man poached all but  the alpha male and another male pup from a very promising pack in Washington state. Those two wolves now have a very unlikely chance of surviving as it takes a pack to bring down large pray. Wolves are not very successful hunters to begin with. They only make about 1 in 10 kills successful. There are non lethal ways of dealing with conflict.
> 
> Look at how coyotes are hunted for instance: do you think this kind of killing of any is necessary?
> 
> http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s28/derbyacresbob/IMG_0137.jpg



How do you feel about deer hunting?
Why not petition to stop African Elephant poaching? What about Gorillas?


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

You do know yote control is REALLY NEEDED. Like where I am from there are more yotes than people and domesticated animals. YES blah blah they were here first blah blah BUT people now live there and you cant have yotes attacking people because there isnt enough wild food for them. Here on base even I am hired out to do critter control. Rabbits and yotes breed like rats so once a year I am now hired to control the breeding population with a 12 gauge. Do I like that its done? Not really. Is it needed to keep the population in check, keep people safe, and keep the critters from contracting massive diseases? GOOD LORD YES.


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## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wolves/docs/oregon_wolf_program/October_2011_Wolf_Report.pdf


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> You do know yote control is REALLY NEEDED. Like where I am from there are more yotes than people and domesticated animals. YES blah blah they were here first blah blah BUT people now live there and you cant have yotes attacking people because there isnt enough wild food for them. Here on base even I am hired out to do critter control. Rabbits and yotes breed like rats so once a year I am now hired to control the breeding population with a 12 gauge. Do I like that its done? Not really. Is it needed to keep the population in check, keep people safe, and keep the critters from contracting massive diseases? GOOD LORD YES.



mail me that shit


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Why I support re-population of wild animals-
50 years ago-
Mentality of society- "It's just one species going extinct, no big deal"
"It's no big deal, it's just another species going extinct"
"Just another species going extinct"
Today-
"Wolves are just another species going extinct, no big deal"
What I'm expecting is 200 years from now-
"Mr. President, the last species of animals went extinct"
"Well fuck"

We've done more to destroy this world than we have done good, in the last 200 years we have killed off millions of species, honestly I'm wondering if we're trying to beat the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs record of killing.

So yes, population control is needed, but not to the point that we're trying to wipe out every last animal on earth.


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## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

As far as deer hunting--if you are using the animals, fine. I come from a family of hunters and I've eaten what has been killed--deer, elk, moose, duck, and so on. I also build and sell high powered rifles (AR-15 specifically) for hunting. I understand the importance of population control. But I also work with people who just load up the SUV on a weekend and drive to the middle of no-where just to slaughter as many animals as they can. They don't even do anything with the bodies--just leave them there. I can sympathize with ranchers to an extent--your cows are your lively hood. You kill one breeding cow, and you may have lost another 5 new cows over it's lifetime. But can't we find some kind of middle ground here? :\


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## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wolves/docs/oregon_wolf_program/October_2011_Wolf_Report.pdf



Okay great, now how about telling what the hell you're actually linking to? I guarantee no one will click on that shit (especially a bloody pdf) without providing us with a reason to do so. What is it about? What's the point? What page should we check out? How does it help your case? What _is_ your case?


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## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Why I support re-population of wild animals-
> 50 years ago-
> Mentality of society- "It's just one species going extinct, no big deal"
> "It's no big deal, it's just another species going extinct"
> ...


No one wants them extinct--it's just that a pre-settler population is not realistic anymore. Some culling is necessary to keep the population at a sustainable level, otherwise you're going to start having issues with starvation/disease/livestock predation.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> As far as deer hunting--if you are using the animals, fine. I come from a family of hunters and I've eaten what has been killed--deer, elk, moose, duck, and so on. I also build and sell high powered rifles (AR-15 specifically) for hunting. I understand the importance of population control. But I also work with people who just load up the SUV on a weekend and drive to the middle of no-where just to slaughter as many animals as they can. They don't even do anything with the bodies--just leave them there. I can sympathize with ranchers to an extent--your cows are your lively hood. You kill one breeding cow, and you may have lost another 5 new cows over it's lifetime. But can't we find some kind of middle ground here? :\


If you are witnessing people killing animals for fun, perhaps you should report them to Fish & Wildlife? 

and don't give me that "you don't use coyotes!!" bullshit. I can use a fucking pelt and skeleton for $$


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## Tiger In A Tie (Nov 12, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Okay great, now how about telling what the hell you're actually linking to? I guarantee no one will click on that shit (especially a bloody pdf) without providing us with a reason to do so. What is it about? What's the point? What page should we check out? How does it help your case? What _is_ your case?



I clicked and [tried] to read. From what I'm getting, unless you are very knowledgeable about the counties and forests in Oregon along with the names of the wildlife department agencies, there's nothing there to read.


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## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

This breaks down the count:

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/09/states_largest_wolf_pack_on_mo.html


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> and don't give me that "you don't use coyotes!!" bullshit. I can use a fucking pelt and skeleton for $$



Not to mention previous points brought up by DD. Killing animals has its use, food reasons, safety reasons, economical reasons. It just needs to be done in moderation.

Seriously, a lot of the people against hunting don't even know what the fuck they're talking about.


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## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> If you are witnessing people killing animals for fun, perhaps you should report them to Fish & Wildlife?
> 
> and don't give me that "you don't use coyotes!!" bullshit. I can use a fucking pelt and skeleton for $$



it's amazing what people will do for money, yes? :\


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> it's amazing what people will do for money, yes? :\



Yeah, like, kill cows to sell their meat. So evil and wrong.

It's a friggin' natural thing, it's done in the wild all the time. The only difference is that we as humans have money in there somewhere. We're not all that different.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> If you are witnessing people killing animals for fun, perhaps you should report them to Fish & Wildlife?
> 
> and don't give me that "you don't use coyotes!!" bullshit. I can use a fucking pelt and skeleton for $$



Heck you can eat them. They are really stringy though and need a lot of dry aging and marinating.


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## Neuron (Nov 12, 2011)

Wolfaboos to the rescue!

is this even necessary? Look all I'm saying is putting them on the endangered species list makes them convenient targets and not doing so will get them killed if they go after livestock. Not a whole lot you can do.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> it's amazing what people will do for money, yes? :\


Where I live, the deer population is extremely over the limit, so people have to go out and cull them

Do you support this? Some of the people don't eat the deer 'cause there's too much of it, they just cull em


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Where I live, the deer population is extremely over the limit, so people have to go out and cull them
> 
> Do you support this? Some of the people don't eat the deer 'cause there's too much of it, they just cull em



Can't we hire the wolves to do it?


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## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> it's amazing what people will do for money, yes? :\


Would it be better to discard the carcass? Some have to be culled. It's unavoidable in the modern world.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Where I live, the deer population is extremely over the limit, so people have to go out and cull them
> 
> Do you support this? Some of the people don't eat the deer 'cause there's too much of it, they just cull em



When I get back home I also get paid to whip the deer population into shape. I cull mostly does and bucks with fucked up racks to ensure the genetics of the herd arnt fucked up. 

I promise to save you animal parts :>


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Can't we hire the wolves to do it?


The coyotes eat them but there's just too many deer, the coyotes are over-run by deer and the deer destroy rare vegetation/homes for endangered species of bird



dinosaurdammit said:


> When I get back home I also get paid to whip the deer population into shape. I cull mostly does and bucks with fucked up racks to ensure the genetics of the herd arnt fucked up.
> 
> I promise to save you animal parts :>


 
oh thank you DD~
*faints and fans myself*


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## Kizmit (Nov 12, 2011)

From the amount of redundant questions, I'm pretty certain that Clayton and Gibby have stopped reading at this point.


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## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

Fuck the wolves. We didn't become the dominant species on the planet by being nice to other predators.

No wolf gonna steal my baby >:c


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> No one wants them extinct--it's just that a pre-settler population is not realistic anymore. Some culling is necessary to keep the population at a sustainable level, otherwise you're going to start having issues with starvation/disease/livestock predation.


Short version, your grandchildren are going to inherit a planet with so few animals that if a frog jumped on them they'd have a panic attack not understanding what it is.


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> When I get back home I also get paid to whip the deer population into shape. I cull mostly does and bucks with fucked up racks to ensure the genetics of the herd arnt fucked up.
> 
> I promise to save you animal parts :>


 
That's gotta be the funnest way to get paid ever. I wish I could get paid to shoot things.



Kizmit said:


> From the amount of redundant questions, I'm pretty certain that Clayton and Gibby have stopped reading at this point.



I don't think anybody here can be fucked to read everything.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Gibby said:


> That's gotta be the funnest way to get paid ever. I wish I could get paid to shoot things.



Its so bad where my dad lives deer are desperate enough to come in your yard and attack you over a spit full amount of grass. Wild boar have become so over populated they have eaten pretty much everything that the deer eat and attack people. People have now bred pit bulls and I mean MEAN ones, give them a kevlar vest and send them to kill every boar they can find. The state pays you for however many you kill. The meat is then given to the homeless shelters near by and turned into food for them.


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## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Its so bad where my dad lives deer are desperate enough to come in your yard and attack you over a spit full amount of grass. Wild boar have become so over populated they have eaten pretty much everything that the deer eat and attack people. People have now bred pit bulls and I mean MEAN ones, give them a kevlar vest and send them to kill every boar they can find. The state pays you for however many you kill. The meat is then given to the homeless shelters near by and turned into food for them.



KILL ALL THE THINGS


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## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Short version, your grandchildren are going to inherit a planet with so few animals that if a frog jumped on them they'd have a panic attack not understanding what it is.



Oh thank god you're here, Captain Hyperbole!

I love how Kizmit actually agrees with this statement. Actions speak louder than words and all that.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> People have now bred pit bulls and I mean MEAN ones, give them a kevlar vest and send them to kill every boar they can find.


Those are usually American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentino or Curs, too. It's not that they're mean, it's just that they're doing what they were breed to do wayyy back when.

[yt]RuBRGXxHvwo[/yt]

Hog dogs are important when controlling hog populations because as you can see in the video, the brush and weeds and shit is just too thick to walk around in and shoot at a hog. Not to mention they're extremely fast and very dangerous, so they get fast dogs to go in and grab the pig and hold it down until the hunters can get them. The vests are so the hog's tusks don't stab into them

It's kinda gruesome to watch but it's an interesting kinda deal
Here is an APBT all geared up:


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Its so bad where my dad lives deer are desperate enough to come in your yard and attack you over a spit full amount of grass. Wild boar have become so over populated they have eaten pretty much everything that the deer eat and attack people. People have now bred pit bulls and I mean MEAN ones, give them a kevlar vest and send them to kill every boar they can find. The state pays you for however many you kill. The meat is then given to the homeless shelters near by and turned into food for them.



It's the same way here in Texas and we're hemorrhaging money because feral hogs are so bad. Texas authorized boar hunting from helicopters as of September 1st this year as both a response to the feral hog issue and another attempt at a cash grab to prop up our mostly bankrupt ag department.

http://hunting.outdoorzy.com/hunting-feral-hogs-from-a-helicopter-in-texas/


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Oh thank god you're here, Captain Hyperbole!
> 
> I love how Kizmit actually agrees with this statement. Actions speak louder than words and all that.


Actually we're getting close to how all the animals going extinct to be considered a extinction event.

In the last two hundred years millions of species have gone extinct, if we keep this up soon we'll be on par with the permian mass extinction.


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## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Actually we're getting close to how all the animals going extinct to be considered a extinction event.
> 
> In the last two hundred years millions of animals have gone extinct, if we keep this up soon we'll be on par with the permian mass extinction.



Seeing how this is just how things work, it's not that big a deal. Mass extinction leads to a mass growth in new life.

Circle of life.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Actually we're getting close to how all the animals going extinct to be considered a extinction event.
> 
> In the last two hundred years millions of species have gone extinct, if we keep this up soon we'll be on par with the permian mass extinction.



According to an aquarium I once visited, if things keep going as they are there will be no fish in the oceans by 2038.


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## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

ShÃ nwÃ ng said:


> It's the same way here in Texas and we're hemorrhaging money because feral hogs are so bad. Texas authorized boar hunting from helicopters as of September 1st this year as both a response to the feral hog issue and another attempt at a cash grab to prop up our mostly bankrupt ag department.
> 
> http://hunting.outdoorzy.com/hunting-feral-hogs-from-a-helicopter-in-texas/


My state is so freaked out over feral hogs that they ask hunters to shoot them on sight, no matter what the season. So far it's worked well, we've only got a few pocket populations of them, but hooey the DNR is just shaking in their boots about the chance of them getting out of control. 

(For anyone who finds this upsetting, feral hogs are extremely invasive and destructive animals and have have the ability to wipe out native plants and animals.)


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Nov 12, 2011)

~secret~ said:


> Seeing how this is just how things work, it's not that big a deal. Mass extinction leads to a mass growth in new life.
> 
> Circle of life.



Yeah, new life without humans. And that's the part that worries me.


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

ShÃ nwÃ ng said:


> boar hunting from helicopters



I'm moving to texas.


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## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Actually we're getting close to how all the animals going extinct to be considered a extinction event.
> 
> In the last two hundred years millions of species have gone extinct



And they all vanished because of evil humans, right? And I bet 90% of those are just different varieties of insects or mushrooms or mould with minor genetic fluctuations or some shit.



CannonFodder said:


> if we keep this up soon we'll be on par with the permian mass extinction.



If this keeps up? Yes sure, let's find some more countries to explore so we can decimate their native populations. Oh wait, there aren't any.


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## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Yeah, new life without humans. And that's the part that worries me.


Haha, what? We're talking an extinction event that happens every hundred million years or so. Barring some planetary disaster, humans aren't going anywhere for a while yet.



LizardKing said:


> And they all vanished because of evil humans, right? And I bet 90% of those are just different varieties of insects or mushrooms or mould with minor genetic fluctuations or some shit.



People always forget the new species that evolve to fill their ecological niches :c


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## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> ...if we keep this up...


 


Tiger In A Tie said:


> ...if things keep going as they are...


 
http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2398


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## Smelge (Nov 12, 2011)

If I pay  $12 for a licence, then shipping costs, will anybody be willing to go out and shoot a wolf then send the meat to the UK?

I've always wanted to eat one. I'm thinking wolf stir-fry with sweet chilli and garlic.


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## Dreaming (Nov 12, 2011)

Why does this petition look so familiar. I'm pretty sure I signed the same petition months ago.....on another site.


Kizmit said:


> In Oregon there are now only 14 known wolves in the ENTIRE state.


Yikes.

A somewhat useful link


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Nov 12, 2011)

Why should we bother to give shits for this petition?


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## Lunar (Nov 12, 2011)

There's a blank space on my wall where a timberwolf pelt should be.


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

~secret~ said:


> Seeing how this is just how things work, it's not that big a deal. Mass extinction leads to a mass growth in new life.
> 
> Circle of life.


That takes millions of years, not a few years.
This isn't pokemon where in the next game 150 more species and a entirely new area pops into existence.


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## Cain (Nov 12, 2011)

Gibby said:


> Not entirely directed at the OP, but why are furries often so hell-bent on saving wolves and nothing but wolves? Why not every other endangered species out there with them? Aside from being in 99% of all furry porn, what makes wolves so fucking special compared to stuff like tigers, pandas, and tasmanian devils?


Don't forget Snow Leopards! Those beautiful things have only a population of 3500-7000 left :c


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## Deo (Nov 12, 2011)

Kizmit said:


> it's amazing what people will do for money, yes? :\


The horror! Some people cull animal populations so that they don't over populate and die terrible long drawn out deaths from starvation or due to disease. Obviously letting them overpopulate and suffer is much more humane. Also, how dare these vagrants make money to feed their families through the tanning of the hide and cleaning of the bones! They should starve too, just like the coyotes! It's only fair. Let the whole damn state starve to death slowly in blinding agony.


I should probably add that I used to work for a zoo, so I know all about the Department of Fish and Wildlife and the way wild animal populations are kept stable. Oh an an animal hospital, too. So working with exotics, studying them, and getting the information first hand.

I still support the culling of species to prevent overpopulation.


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Jagged Edge said:


> Don't forget Snow Leopards! Those beautiful things have only a population of 3500-7000 left :c


Snow Leopards are going extinct not cause of population control, but because people are dicks, snow leopards have enough food and aren't suffering from disease.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Smelge said:


> If I pay  $12 for a licence, then shipping costs, will anybody be willing to go out and shoot a wolf then send the meat to the UK?
> 
> I've always wanted to eat one. I'm thinking wolf stir-fry with sweet chilli and garlic.


As long as I can keep everything else


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

The wolf thing is better than what we do to hogs back home, we build large tall fences in a circle and bait it, the hogs can get in but not out, then you go in and make them dead. With the amount of over breeding hogs have done I condone ak47 as a useful tool in wiping out a whole herd of them. Sometimes you have to. Though with wolves I dont really see them much as a problem, they dont eat that much compared to hogs and are a native species. Only problem I see with mass wolf culls is you then need to mass cull yotes then deer and rabbits because you knock the system out of whack.


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Speaking of extinction-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUCN_Red_List


dinosaurdammit said:


> The wolf thing is better than what we do  to hogs back home, we build large tall fences in a circle and bait it,  the hogs can get in but not out, then you go in and make them dead. With  the amount of over breeding hogs have done I condone ak47 as a useful  tool in wiping out a whole herd of them. Sometimes you have to. Though  with wolves I dont really see them much as a problem, they dont eat that  much compared to hogs and are a native species. Only problem I see with  mass wolf culls is you then need to mass cull yotes then deer and  rabbits because you knock the system out of whack.


So the solution is to kill everything in sight?


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## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> You do know yote control is REALLY NEEDED. Like where I am from there are more yotes than people and domesticated animals. YES blah blah they were here first blah blah BUT people now live there and you cant have yotes attacking people because there isnt enough wild food for them. Here on base even I am hired out to do critter control. Rabbits and yotes breed like rats so once a year I am now hired to control the breeding population with a 12 gauge. Do I like that its done? Not really. Is it needed to keep the population in check, keep people safe, and keep the critters from contracting massive diseases? GOOD LORD YES.



I'm THISing this statement to be ironic, and because it's true. 

Coyotes, despite having an all year hunting season, being encroached on by human society, and being poisoned and shot at nearly every chance, _STILL_ manage to be one of the only animals in North America that _haven't decreased in population_ since human settlement. 

Read: Coyotes don't give a fuck, and if one were to read your posts OP, he'd probably say something like, "HA, wolves. What pussies. Natural selection, bitches! Adapt or get fucked."



CannonFodder said:


> So the solution is to kill everything in sight?



I believe DD's statement is what we call "a fucking hyperbole".


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## Mayfurr (Nov 12, 2011)

~secret~ said:


> No wolf gonna steal my baby >:c



That's dingos, not wolves.


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## Tycho (Nov 12, 2011)

>sees bleeding heart "save teh poor wolfies" thread

Another one? Is it like some rule that we have to have one every few months? They always turn out the same.

Wolves are charismatic and mysterious and such.  Works for them when it comes to human involvement, works against them too.  Many other critters are not possessed of the same mystique and are almost completely ignored, and unfairly.

That said, INTERNET PETITIONS DON'T DO A DAMN BIT OF GOOD.  I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE THAT HAS PANNED OUT IN FAVOR OF THE CAUSE I CHOSE TO SIGN FOR.

also: Giant pandas are hosed.  Even captive breeding programs are not brightening their future much.  Blame the fuckhead Chinese.


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## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

Tycho said:


> also: Giant pandas are hosed.  Even captive breeding programs are not brightening their future much.  Blame the fuckhead Chinese.



On a separate tangent, I cannot respect a species that _won't have sex_ to save its own species. Pandas are wildlife's equivalent of the lvl 85 WOW players. Fat, lazy, and virgins for life. :V


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## Deo (Nov 12, 2011)

The population of tasmanian devils has dropped 90-80% since 1996. There are only an estimated 10,000-15,000 individuals left in the wild and Tasmanian Devil Facial Tumor Disease is still prevalent in the wild despite culling efforts.

*SAVE THE TASMANIAN DEVIL*

http://www.tassiedevil.com.au/tasdevil.nsf/How-you-can-help/85007C2726F401E6CA2576F0001E8998


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Speaking of extinction-
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUCN_Red_List
> 
> So the solution is to kill everything in sight?


Food chain is like this.
Wolf
Coyote
Rabbit
Grass

We kill wolves, now the coyotes are in charge! They don't have to be held down by the man[wolf] and get all the food they want! Coyotes are rampant
Coyotes are eating all the rabbits now  uh ohh
Kill coyotes
Wooo!! Rabbits are in charge now! Fucking like crazy, eating all the vegeta--wait..
thats not what we want either :S Oh shit.
Kill rabbits

Culling down the chain keeps it balanced/


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

Deo said:


> http://www.tassiedevil.com.au/tasdevil.nsf/How-you-can-help/85007C2726F401E6CA2576F0001E8998



HEY! LOOK!

A site that actually asks for _donations_ to go to the relief effort, instead of just asking for digital signatures!

_*THIS IS WHAT TRUE LEGIT LOOKS LIKE.*_



Clayton said:


> Food chain is like this.
> Wolf
> Coyote
> Rabbit
> ...



AND THEN THE PLANTS GROW LIKE CRAZY AND START FEEDING OFF HUMAN FLESH

You know what we have to do then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_l4ZVNeU8

But seriously, this is what happens when grass and shrubs over grow. They strangle out everything. We're left with two choices: Do a controlled burn, or wait until it catches fire on its own.


----------



## Onnes (Nov 12, 2011)

Generally speaking, states will tend to set target wolf populations as close to zero as they can get away with. This is because wolves can't vote, whereas farmers and hunters can. I don't think the concept of sustainability is even considered here; it's simply a matter of keeping the smallest wolf population possible without risking a federal takeover.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Onnes said:


> states will tend to set target wolf populations as close to zero as they can get away with. This is because wolves can't vote, whereas farmers and hunters can



Dumbest thing ever uttered


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

Onnes said:


> Generally speaking, states will tend to set target wolf populations as close to zero as they can get away with. This is because wolves can't vote, whereas farmers and hunters can. I don't think the concept of sustainability is even considered here; it's simply a matter of keeping the smallest wolf population possible without risking a federal takeover.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Food chain is like this.
> Wolf
> Coyote
> Rabbit
> ...


You kill rabbits and their food source grows out of control all well, but the problem is you already killed off the animals causing the food chain to be fucked up anyhow.
The animals excrement and dead bodies is used by bacteria, the nutrients produced by the bacteria is used by plants, the plants are eaten by herbivores, the herbivores are eaten by the predators.
With no animals the ecosystem can't function.


----------



## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> That takes millions of years, not a few years.
> This isn't pokemon where in the next game 150 more species and a entirely new area pops into existence.



Oh you did not just insult my intelligence. 

You're thinking short-term, which when comes to extinction of species matters for fuck all. You're focusing on one part of the process and ignoring the rest.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Dumbest thing ever uttered





CoyoteCaliente said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0


Come on guys, keep it civil. 

I did some googling and it does turn out it's true that there are only about one or two dozen wolves in Oregon by the last count. If so, Oregon's situation actually might not be about population control, Onnes may have a point in this particular instance. That said, Onnes, that was quite a blanket statement. Wisconsin, for example, has nearly 1,000 wolves and is actually getting to overpopulation levels.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

~secret~ said:


> Oh you did not just insult my intelligence.
> 
> You're thinking short-term, which when comes to extinction of species matters for fuck all. You're focusing on one part of the process and ignoring the rest.


What you are prescribing is to kill everything to promote evolution.
Animals and plants evolve on their own, mass extinction is a unnecessary step.

This isn't pokemon where you kill enough animals and evolve.


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> Wisconsin, for example, has nearly 1,000 wolves and is actually getting to overpopulation levels.



We should take all the wolves in Wisconsin and _push them_ to Oregon!



CannonFodder said:


> This isn't pokemon where you kill enough animals and evolve.



What is with the pokemon references? 

Since when is _anything_ in real life like pokemon?

I mean, hell, I'd love to fit a full sized bike in my normal sized backpack, but that shit just ain't possible.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 12, 2011)

Save the Coconut Crabs.

20% cooler than your lame mammals.


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Save the Coconut Crabs.
> 
> 20% cooler than your lame mammals.



Oh my god that thing is monstrous and totally amazing.

*edit* also this: http://graphics1.snopes.com/photos/animals/graphics/coconutcrab.jpg


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 12, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> Oh my god that thing is monstrous and totally amazing.



And endangered.  :[


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> And endangered.  :[



These things are too awesome to die. 

SAVE THE COCONUT CRABS!


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> What is with the pokemon references?
> 
> Since when is _anything_ in real life like pokemon?
> 
> I mean, hell, I'd love to fit a full sized bike in my normal sized backpack, but that shit just ain't possible.


Well ~secret~ is proposing saying that mass extinctions promote increasing biodiversity.
The analogy I used is that in the original pokemon games in japan you actually killed your opponents' pokemon to make them evolve.
The joke is comparing ~secret~'s argument to killing other pokemon to make them evolve is similar to his argument of animal species going extinct to promote them to evolve.

I'm drawing a analogy to show how silly his idea of extinction promotes evolution is.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

Save the bees

Seriously save the bees. Some areas are experiencing up to an 85% population loss. Quite a lot of flora (wild and cultivated) relies on bees for pollination, the loss of that flora could have devastating rippling impacts on the ecosystem, and the impacts on agriculture are predictable.


----------



## Deo (Nov 12, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> And endangered.  :[


But I want to eat it. LOOK AT THOSE LEGS. YUUMMMMM.


In other news, I ever tell you guys I ate a really good African Lion steak? And lion burgers? Delish.



Ad Hoc said:


> Save the bees
> 
> Seriously save the bees. Some areas are experiencing up to an 85% population loss.  Quite a lot of flora (wild and cultivated) relies on bees for  pollination, the loss of that flora could have devastating rippling  impacts on the ecosystem, and the impacts on agriculture are  predictable.


On our farm we have bat and bee nest sites that  we built to attract them (in the portion where the old barns and house  used to be so they don't get disturbed by farming). We have a bat box in  our home yard, but since my dad and I are deathly allergic of bees we  can't have a bee area near our house. 

There are small things that everyone can do to help conservation efforts. Find out what native species are supposed to be in your area and make your yard a little more hospitable.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 12, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> These things are too awesome to die.
> 
> SAVE THE COCONUT CRABS!



inorite?

Their numbers have dwindled almost as much as the Iraq Lobster.

[yt]6CbqNbo_1kY[/yt]


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

Deo said:


> The population of tasmanian devils has dropped 90-80% since 1996. There are only an estimated 10,000-15,000 individuals left in the wild and Tasmanian Devil Facial Tumor Disease is still prevalent in the wild despite culling efforts.
> 
> *SAVE THE TASMANIAN DEVIL*
> 
> http://www.tassiedevil.com.au/tasdevil.nsf/How-you-can-help/85007C2726F401E6CA2576F0001E8998



I heard one of the ways they're going to try and save devils is to take the most gentically diverse ones then just wait out the cancer and let those captured ones go again. The population is so fucked up with incest that they actually transfer the cancer through bites, wtf man

As for wolves, I actually do work to protect the wolves, but then again I actually live here and can do shit. I've been part of studies and finding counts for the local populations of coyotes and wolves. Not that I'm against culling. I'm just against ranchers going "but they are overpopulated!" when they aren't


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I heard one of the ways they're going to try and save devils is to take the most gentically diverse ones then just wait out the cancer and let those captured ones go again. The population is so fucked up with incest that they actually transfer the cancer through bites, wtf man
> 
> As for wolves, I actually do work to protect the wolves, but then again I actually live here and can do shit. I've been part of studies and finding counts for the local populations of coyotes and wolves. Not that I'm against culling. I'm just against ranchers going "but they are overpopulated!" when they aren't


And here's a problem with the killing of wolves, reducing the population also reduces the biodiversity.


----------



## Onnes (Nov 12, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> I did some googling and it does turn out it's true that there are only about one or two dozen wolves in Oregon by the last count. If so, Oregon's situation actually might not be about population control, Onnes may have a point in this particular instance. That said, Onnes, that was quite a blanket statement. Wisconsin, for example, has nearly 1,000 wolves and is actually getting to overpopulation levels.



First, let's consider attitudes toward hunting wolves. There is a reason why wolves ended up on the endangered species list in the US: people have an extremely negative view of them. Hunters in particular hate wolves, and they are certainly aren't aiming for any sort of realistic wolf populations. Keep in mind that wolves are predators. Their population is naturally  limited by the availability of prey; in this sense a natural wolf  population would correspond to much lower populations of prey animals than in the past.

Second, who defines when wolves are overpopulated? There are measures for minimum populations, around 350, but those simply ensure stability and genetic health. I'm having trouble finding any sort of study that lays out the logic for Wisconsin target wolf populations.


----------



## Mayfurr (Nov 12, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Save the Coconut Crabs.
> 
> 20% cooler than your lame mammals.



_Please_ tell me this is a Weta Workshops creation... 

...oh fuck, it's not. 

Holy shit, that's a weird-ass creepy looking crab


----------



## Shay Feral (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> You do know yote control is REALLY NEEDED. Like where I am from there are more yotes than people and domesticated animals. YES blah blah they were here first blah blah BUT people now live there and you cant have yotes attacking people because there isnt enough wild food for them. Here on base even I am hired out to do critter control. Rabbits and yotes breed like rats so once a year I am now hired to control the breeding population with a 12 gauge. Do I like that its done? Not really. Is it needed to keep the population in check, keep people safe, and keep the critters from contracting massive diseases? GOOD LORD YES.



Here in West Virginia coyotes are/were really out of control; to the point the state actually paid hunters for every verifiable kill. I don't know the status of the population today, but I have considered fixing my ol scattergun and earnin' me a few dollars.


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> And here's a problem with the killing of wolves, reducing the population also reduces the biodiversity.


If you're an idiot...I don't think people are talking about culling in terms of "hey let's make it so there are only like ten of these guys". I guess this is hard to understand but wolf populations do overpopulate, which means they do start dying slowly of starvation and what is worse, they come out of the mountains and fuck shit up with people. If someone is culling to the point that they are inbreeding then they are doing it wrong.

biodiversity is an interesting thing but it would take a hell of a lot to really fuck up the biodiversity of a species and regular culling will not do that unless you actively start to kill specific phenotypes (like deer with genetic problems) 

There's actually a lot of species that go through a bottlenecking in terms of genetic diversity. Human beings are one. Foxes have it happen once in a while. Other species have it happen as well without any big problems. Problems arise when something happens during that bottlenecking time. Like with tazzy devils transferring cancer to one another. 

To be honest not dealing with a big overpopulation problem can be way more troublesome than culling on a species.


----------



## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> What you are prescribing is to kill everything to promote evolution.
> Animals and plants evolve on their own, mass extinction is a unnecessary step.
> 
> This isn't pokemon where you kill enough animals and evolve.



I did not, for one minute, advocate killing everything. If you'd bother to read and understand what I said you'd get that.



CannonFodder said:


> Well ~secret~ is proposing saying that mass extinctions promote increasing biodiversity.
> The analogy I used is that in the original pokemon games in japan you actually killed your opponents' pokemon to make them evolve.
> The joke is comparing ~secret~'s argument to killing other pokemon to make them evolve is similar to his argument of animal species going extinct to promote them to evolve.
> 
> I'm drawing a analogy to show how silly his idea of extinction promotes evolution is.



Extinction clears out the food chain, giving species that were previously unable to expand their population the chance to spread out and diversify. Over time, this leads to speciation. It's how mammals were able to fill empty environmental niches after the K-T extinction.

It's not 'silly', it's science.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> You kill rabbits and their food source grows out of control all well, but the problem is you already killed off the animals causing the food chain to be fucked up anyhow.
> The animals excrement and dead bodies is used by bacteria, the nutrients produced by the bacteria is used by plants, the plants are eaten by herbivores, the herbivores are eaten by the predators.
> With no animals the ecosystem can't function.


You don't kill enough rabbits for weeds adn shit to go rampant.
"Cull" =/= exterminate all animals, it means to cut back apopultaion 


coconut crabs are fucking ugly, i dont want them protected and theres a reason theyre extinct.t heyre fyucking ugly
no prortection for coconut crabs


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

~secret~ said:


> I did not, for one minute, advocate killing everything. If you'd bother to read and understand what I said you'd get that.
> Extinction clears out the food chain, giving species that were previously unable to expand their population the chance to spread out and diversify. Over time, this leads to speciation. It's how mammals were able to fill empty environmental niches after the K-T extinction.
> It's not 'silly', it's science.


Again, speciation takes MILLIONS of years, not years.


Clayton said:


> You don't kill enough rabbits for weeds adn shit to go rampant.
> "Cull" =/= exterminate all animals, it means to cut back apopultaion


On the first few weeks that wolves were taken off the endangered list hunters went on a killing spree that killed hundreds, you can't expect people to cull them appropriately.


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## Lunar (Nov 12, 2011)

Sarah Palin should see this thread.


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

lunar_helix said:


> Sarah Palin should see this thread.


She'd feel at home.


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## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Again, speciation takes MILLIONS of years, not years.



Bullshit.

Allopatric speciation can occur in a few thousand years. Populations separated by a physical boundary may experience different selection pressures, undergo genetic drift, or different mutations from the parent group. See practically everything on the Galapagos Islands for examples.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

~secret~ said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Allopatric speciation can occur in a few thousand years. Populations separated by a physical boundary may experience different selection pressures, undergo genetic drift, or different mutations from the parent group. See practically everything on the Galapagos Islands for examples.


Still not years.
You can't just separate a group of animals from the rest and expect a whole new species to pop up in a single year.


----------



## Xipoid (Nov 12, 2011)

While we're on the topic of species conservation, I always thought the soon-to-be mass extinction of marine life was pretty important. I'm still looking up more information though, so I'm not drawing any conclusions just yet.


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## ~secret~ (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Still not years.
> You can't just separate a group of animals from the rest and expect a whole new species to pop up in a single year.



You clearly do not get anything I'm saying to you.

Pick up a fucking book sometime.


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## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

You and secret are arguing two different things CF. You're going "holy fuck the animals will all die" and thinking shorter term, you're thinking in terms of human beings. 

Secret is talking about life in general. there may not be humans, or wolves in the future, but something will be there. 
We have mold growing in Chernobyl. I uses melanin to get energy from radioactivity. That took less than 100 years to exist, and it's fucking awesome. life finds a way, just not the kind you're rooting for.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> You and secret are arguing two different things CF.  You're going "holy fuck the animals will all die" and thinking shorter  term, you're thinking in terms of human beings.
> 
> Secret is talking about life in general. there may not be humans, or wolves in the future, but something will be there.
> We have mold growing in Chernobyl. I uses melanin to get energy from  radioactivity. That took less than 100 years to exist, and it's fucking  awesome. life finds a way, just not the kind you're rooting for.


But still if the ecosystem took a hit it would effect us as well.

If the marine extinction Xipoid linked to happens, then countless people would starve cause of how many people are dependent on fishing regardless if new species sprouted up.


----------



## israfur (Nov 12, 2011)

-inserts "save the white rhino" petition-


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> We have mold growing in Chernobyl.



And radioactive wolves :3

(I assume you mean the mould growing inside the actual NPP, which is pretty bitchin)


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> But still if the ecosystem took a hit it would effect us as well.
> 
> If the marine extinction Xipoid linked to happens, then countless people would starve cause of how many people are dependent on fishing regardless if new species sprouted up.



again, you're thinking in terms of people. In all likelyhood most of the human population would collapse with total world ecosystem annihilation. That doesn't negate that it will not kill off all species ever. 
Again, life finds a way, just not the kind you're rooting for.



LizardKing said:


> And radioactive wolves :3
> 
> (I assume you mean the mould growing inside the actual NPP, which is pretty bitchin)


i thought that would be a zombie dog joke...this is fucking amazing


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> again, you're thinking in terms of people. In all likelyhood most of the human population would collapse with total world ecosystem annihilation. That doesn't negate that it will not kill off all species ever.
> Again, life finds a way, just not the kind you're rooting for.


Again, what if the species has no problem with food supplies and has no indication of disease?
For example the Snow Leopards don't have food supply problem, disease or problems with them attacking people, and yet they are culled anyhow.
For species like this, should they be culled anyhow like they are?


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Again, what if the species has no problem with food supplies and has no indication of disease?
> For example the Snow Leopards don't have food supply problem, disease or problems with them attacking people, and yet they are culled anyhow.
> For species like this, should they be culled anyhow like they are?



I do not believe that snow leopards are culled. Poached maybe (which is not the same thing) but if you can show me a single source that says they're being culled then I'll believe you. 
No it is unethical to cull a creature that is not having a major negative impact and isn't having issues with disease or supplies. 

But again, I don't believe you that snow leopards are being culled. I think you equating things to culling, like trying to exterminate foreign invaders (like the wild boars) or poaching. It's not even close to the same thing.


----------



## Ames (Nov 12, 2011)

lolwolfaboos.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I do not believe that snow leopards are culled. Poached maybe (which is not the same thing) but if you can show me a single source that says they're being culled then I'll believe you.
> No it is unethical to cull a creature that is not having a major negative impact and isn't having issues with disease or supplies.
> 
> But again, I don't believe you that snow leopards are being culled. I think you equating things to culling, like trying to exterminate foreign invaders (like the wild boars) or poaching. It's not even close to the same thing.


It's not legal, but they're being killed off anyhow.
Hunters will kill them off regardless if it's legal or not.

The hunters when wolves were taken off the protected list were killed just above the point of endangered.
They're not going to be humane about it obviously.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> It's not legal, but they're being killed off anyhow.
> Hunters will kill them off regardless if it's legal or not.



Then that is poaching not culling. Get pissed off at poachers not people who kill only to keep the population in check and healthy. Poaching is poaching there is nothing good that comes of it.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Then that is poaching not culling. Get pissed off at poachers not people who kill only to keep the population in check and healthy. Poaching is poaching there is nothing good that comes of it.


What about the hunters that kill them to keep their population in check whether or not it's legal?


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> What about the hunters that kill them to keep their population in check whether or not it's legal?



Believe me if it was needed then the wildlife fish and game would be all on it like white on rice.


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> It's not legal, but they're being killed off anyhow.
> Hunters will kill them off regardless if it's legal or not.



CF that's called poaching, that's fucking illegal and unethical. Culling =/= poaching. Equivocation is a fallacy you know...

Poaching and culling are not the same at all. Culling is a practice of looking at a group of animals and removing the genetically problematic, or reducing overpopulation. There are many different reasons to do this, in terms of genes, it prevents a group from being hit hard with genetic defects and spreading them. It promotes the health of future populations. 
In terms of overpopulation. When a group gets overpopulated, it runs out of resourses, and it runs out of space. they get overcrowded. Then they get sick, and due to overcrowding they all get sick. Disease rips through the population and instead of having a population of 60% of the original numbers, you have 10% which fucks up the ecosystem. 

Poaching is just a jackass saying "I want that" and killing an animal. It is not ethical, it is not legal, it is not okay in any sense of the word. 

Equating those two means you don't understand either of them. You may as well say that hunting deer for food is like poaching rhinos for ivory. It's completely different.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Believe me if it was needed then the wildlife fish and game would be all on it like white on rice.


http://westinstenv.org/wp-content/postimage/Private_forests_and_At-risk_species.jpg
What about this seems needed?
http://madmikesamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/USDA_Wolves_WS_KilledKids.jpg
Wolves: America's favorite target practice.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> What about this seems needed?
> http://madmikesamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/USDA_Wolves_WS_KilledKids.jpg
> Wolves: America's favorite target practice.



Old pic is OLD AS FUCK and you still dont get it, those people are poachers. They did not cull them. You do not take pride in culling animals. What they did wasnt right and they would be arrested by the F&G. I was going to write it out (fish and game but that came out as FAG)


----------



## Shay Feral (Nov 12, 2011)

*deleted, misunderstood post*


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## CannonFodder (Nov 12, 2011)

Shay Feral said:


> Anyone can hunt, CF. Hell, I went deer hunting for the first time when I was 10.


Obviously, but it shouldn't be when the species is on the brink.


----------



## Aetius (Nov 12, 2011)

Poachers are the biggest douchebags in the world, I hate them with a fiery passion.


----------



## Shay Feral (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Obviously, but it shouldn't be when the species is on the brink.



I misunderstood the context of the picture...


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Obviously, but it shouldn't be when the species is on the brink.



Are you extra thick today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaching


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

What is up with the PETA~esque propganda imamges? 

What is this? The mid-nineties?


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

CoyoteCaliente said:


> What is up with the PETA~esque propganda imamges?
> 
> What is this? The mid-nineties?



Id say late 70s to mid 80s


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> http://westinstenv.org/wp-content/postimage/Private_forests_and_At-risk_species.jpg
> What about this seems needed?
> http://madmikesamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/USDA_Wolves_WS_KilledKids.jpg
> Wolves: America's favorite target practice.



1. A picture of 5 dead wolves means fuck all. How are we to know that the area isn't completely overpopulated? Here's a hint, just because animals might be doing poorly overall does not mean they will be underpopulated absolutely everywhere? How do we know this wasn't a pack that was human aggressive? 
2. What does the number of at risk species on private land have to do with anything at all. It doesn't say people are killing them. In florida there are many at risk species, that doesn't mean that people are going out of their way to kill them. Someone with private land might have florida panthers on their land but decide to cull their deer population. 

Bring better sources or stfu.

And you know, since you're being dense. Some furries fuck animals, let's ban all of furry forever because some douchebag. Obviously everyone that goes to a furry con also fucks animals, they're all the same. ethical practices be damned. If one douchebag does something wrong everyone in that group must do it. 
it makes total fucking sense.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Id say late 70s to mid 80s



I'd go with mid-80s since I'm seeing the beginning of a she-mullet on the woman to the far right.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I'd go with mid-80s since I'm seeing the beginning of a she-mullet on the woman to the far right.



Only reason I thought late 70s is because of the type of film, could be right with it being mid 80s with an older camera


----------



## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

Commie Bat said:


> This is a little off from the current discussion; but I seemed to fail finding what species of wolves they are.  Anyone here know?  Cause if they're grey wolves, then this petition is pointless.



In oregon? yeah they're grey wolves.


----------



## Recel (Nov 12, 2011)

If killing animals to keep their number in check is culling, than why is killing people to keep their number in check called murder? :V


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## Shay Feral (Nov 12, 2011)

Recel said:


> If killing animals to keep their number in check is culling, than why is killing people to keep their number in check called murder? :V



It's not called murder, it's called genocide.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Shay Feral said:


> It's not called murder, it's called genocide.



Only if killing a certain type of people based on religion, or race.


----------



## Shay Feral (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Only if killing a certain type of people based on religion, or race.



Good call, I forgot about euthanasia.


----------



## Recel (Nov 12, 2011)

Shay Feral said:


> It's not called murder, it's called genocide.



Ok. But why is culling good while genocide is bad if they do the same thing? We need to clean up our gene-pool too! We cant be this selfless! :V


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## Ad Hoc (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Only if killing a certain type of people based on religion, or race.


Or genetic irregularities. That might be better called eugenics though.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Commie Bat said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Then like I said previously this petition is ridiculous.  America has over 10,000 grey wolves, and the second fastest growth rate in the world.  A lot of places have severe overpopulation, and they're starting to spread from state to state, which is a good thing.
> Let Oregon do what it wants; they'll eventually have to deal with more and more of them.



I am only pissed because I know this is a political thing and not to do with the actual health of the population.


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## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

Recel said:


> If killing animals to keep their number in check is culling, than why is killing people to keep their number in check called murder? :V



Because humans are considered to have the ability to reason, and you can't cull reason. 

Also, there's a correlation between war and a large population of young men. I think people naturally cull themselves >.>


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## Shay Feral (Nov 12, 2011)

Recel said:


> Ok. But why is culling good while genocide is bad if they do the same thing? We need to clean up our gene-pool too! We cant be this selfless! :V



Unless you plan to volunteer, it wouldn't be a good idea to suggest this. lol


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## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

Commie Bat said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Then like I said previously this petition is ridiculous.  America has over 10,000 grey wolves, and the second fastest growth rate in the world.  A lot of places have severe overpopulation, and they're starting to spread from state to state, which is a good thing.
> Let Oregon do what it wants; they'll eventually have to deal with more and more of them.



I could see barring wolf hunting in oregon as it does seem to be severely underpopulated. I don't necissarily agree with it for states that do have a solid population. Let oregon get their numbers up, but don't start going "nooo the wolvies!" with states that are fine.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

China is doing selective breeding of sorts. They allow abortions until time of birth on girls but cut short the time allowed to abort a boy. I cant remember where I read it but its saying now only like 1 in 5 men in china will ever have a wife.


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## Aetius (Nov 12, 2011)

Recel said:


> If killing animals to keep their number in check is culling, than why is killing people to keep their number in check called murder? :V



People complain.

Its too expensive.


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## Recel (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Because humans are considered to have the ability to reason, and you can't cull reason.
> 
> Also, there's a correlation between war and a large population of young men. I think people naturally cull themselves >.>



But not enough. 
I dont want to over cull them ofcourse a minor... 4 billion would do! :V



Shay Feral said:


> Unless you plan to volunteer, it wouldn't be a good idea to suggest this. lol



Ill stay last, just to make sure the other unsuspecting victi... uhm... voulenteers dont back off if im not there. :V


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> And radioactive wolves :3
> 
> (I assume you mean the mould growing inside the actual NPP, which is pretty bitchin)



I wanna watch this, but I can hardly understand what the dude's saying. Could anyone put it in a nutshell for me?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> China is doing selective breeding of sorts. They allow abortions until time of birth on girls but cut short the time allowed to abort a boy. I cant remember where I read it but its saying now only like 1 in 5 men in china will ever have a wife.



It's going to get mad prison gay in China.


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## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

Gibby said:


> I wanna watch this, but I can hardly understand what the dude's saying. Could anyone put it in a nutshell for me?


People got the hell out of radioactive land, with an absence of people animals moved in. the area is extremely toxic, but large animals are thriving and there are wolves that now live and thrive around Chernobyl


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> It's going to get mad prison gay in China.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508...apples-legacy-its-missing-girls/#.Tr705RzLca4


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## Schwimmwagen (Nov 12, 2011)

Fay V said:


> People got the hell out of radioactive land, with an absence of people animals moved in. the area is extremely toxic, but large animals are thriving and there are wolves that now live and thrive around Chernobyl



Well that sounds pretty awesome.

It's also cool to think about animals inhabiting urban areas. You know, I have a friend who visited Chernobyl and toured it with a couple of guides and a couple of friends, and he said it was one of the most incredible, thrilling, and fantastically haunting trips he has ever taken. I'm so jelly.


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## LizardKing (Nov 12, 2011)

Gibby said:


> I wanna watch this, but I can hardly understand what the dude's saying. Could anyone put it in a nutshell for me?



Long story short: there are indeed multiple (radioactive!) wolf packs within the Chernobyl exclusion zone, and they seem to be doing okay, along with the rest of the wildlife there. They like eating the beavers. I think that's the rough gist of it; it's a little while since I watched it.

Edit: Oh, Fay already gave you an answer. Well, now you have 2.


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## Leafblower29 (Nov 12, 2011)

As long as they aren't being over-hunted, I really don't see why this would be needed.


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## dinosaurdammit (Nov 12, 2011)

Leafblower29 said:


> As long as they aren't being over-hunted, I really don't see why this would be needed.



tardy to the party


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## Smelge (Nov 12, 2011)

Leafblower29 said:


> As long as they aren't being over-hunted, I really don't see why this would be needed.


Stop trying to tell people that they can't oppose wolf hunting.

Christ, you're terrible.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

Shay Feral said:


> It's not called murder, it's called genocide.


"Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

No it's not.  Genocide is racist killing



Shay Feral said:


> Good call, I forgot about euthanasia.


 Euthanasia.. you mean like when they give a needle to dying people?

You may not know this, but what sets humans apart from other animals is the fact that we can control urges and reason. Animals cannot. Animals cannot choose to be abstinent to avoid over-population. Humans can.
There is no need for human-culling


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## Deo (Nov 12, 2011)

Oh god. so many people do not know about conservation. :[

Well, the wolf culling I think is fine, the decision to de-list wolves was not something that was taken lightly. But I'll email my buds at the International wolf Center if it will make you all relax. My fellow BPMI majors and I sent them some art for their showcase, so I'll ask. But I think this is all being blown out of the water with hyperbole and I won't put out my specific views on the situation until I ask some people over at AZA through my zoo contacts and FWS. I suggest you all look for legitimate sources if you want to argue on this.


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## RedSavage (Nov 12, 2011)

And then Deo came and cock slapped everyone with common fucking sense.(Or at least she will soon amyhow)


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## Recel (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> You may not know this, but what sets humans apart from other animals is the fact that we can control urges and reason. Animals cannot. Animals cannot choose to be abstinent to avoid over-population. Humans can.
> There is no need for human-culling



There are a lot of things humans can do, but they wont. Like avoiding over-population for instance.  Also, needs come from situations. If humans have over-populated the world than there is a need for human-culling. We can do that, but again, its in the things we just wont do. Controling urges, reason, and being able to chose what to do is a two edged balde.

Aaaaanyway, Ill stop derailing the thread now, and agree with Deo that legimate sources are needed. (About the OP ofcourse. Not the human-culling. :V)


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## ryanleblanc (Nov 12, 2011)

The linked website is pretty much broken and blank, all that shows is the title bar of the website. FYI.


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## Volkodav (Nov 12, 2011)

I found this today, its very relevant to this thread!!

http://fatpita.net/images/image (12226).jpg?11669

Please dont jump to "hunting is bad" without thinking about overpopulation in animals!


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## Fay V (Nov 12, 2011)

Clayton said:


> I found this today, its very relevant to this thread!!
> 
> http://fatpita.net/images/image (12226).jpg?11669
> 
> Please dont jump to "hunting is bad" without thinking about overpopulation in animals!



Poor reindeer 

Yeah overpopulation is a bitch. Yellowstone Bison were actually getting overpopulated for a while and hoof and mouth or whatever that disease was spreading through the herd, then to the nearby ranches. sucked.

a lottery hunt was proposed and people bitched that it would be like the pioneers stacking up mountains of skulls. No. No it would not be like that at all.


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## TreacleFox (Nov 13, 2011)

The wolves in America are hardly overpopulating though.


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## Fay V (Nov 13, 2011)

TreacleFox said:


> The wolves in America are hardly overpopulating though.


Wolves do not span America. They don't say "oh this place is overcrowded" and hop into a car to head west. Wolves actually tend to stay in an area and move out slowly. So while overall the wolf population may be stable, the wolves in certain areas are certainly overcrowding in some places. There may be 1000 wolves in an area that can't sustain them, and 4 in another area. That doesn't mean that you should just average it out between the two and say "no you can't do anything"
If the population overall were so low that they are endangered then it makes sense to disallow any killing, but when the species is stable overall, then areas need to consider the population and the needs of the area, not whether or not the average national population is high.


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## Smelge (Nov 13, 2011)

I love the implications in this thread that the wolves stick to state lines.

"Hey, we can't go that way or we won't be Oregon wolves anymore."


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