# Let's talk about electronic cigarettes



## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 24, 2013)

We all know the social stigma that has built up around smoking tobacco cigarettes. They smell bad, the secondhand smoke terrible for people other than yourself, they cause all kinds of nasty health issues if used long term, they're a huge drain on the wallet, and they don't even taste that good. However, as some of you may already know, electronic cigarettes are giving smokers a way out of stranglehold tobacco has on them. 

Personally, I love electronic cigarettes. The e-liquid you fill them with can be made in any flavor desired, there is no definitive proof of any health detriments(especially when compared with tobacco), they're cheaper in the long run, the level of nicotine is variable(from 0mg up to 24mg), variable voltage/variable wattage devices can customize the feel of the vapor for your own satisfaction, and there are none of the restrictions that tobacco cigarettes have on the location you can enjoy one(legally speaking in the US, of course - common courtesy still applies though). 

For those of you that are curious or concerned about the contents of the e-liquid, there are four primary ingredients: 

Propylene Glycol: This is a common additive in many foods - found in chips, candy, twinkies, and a host of others. As such, obviously, it is considered to be safe for humans. 

Vegetable Glycerin: Again, entirely safe for consumption. If this is a concern, then you might want to be on the lookout for those sneaky cucumbers that are out to get you as well.

Food Flavorings: As harmful as a bag of skittles, minus the sugar and calories. The same stuff that's in the coke you drink, fruit juice you purchase, frozen pizza you eat, and so forth. 

Nicotine: The only part that could be considered "harmful" of the four, and that's primarily due to the addictive nature of the chemical. Of course, as someone switching from tobacco to electronic, this is what you're after anyway. It is not a carcinogen, and in and of itself, is about as harmful as caffeine. Remember, it's the 400+ other chemicals(which balloons to over 6,000 when lit) in tobacco cigarettes that cause the myriad of health problems for users and those around them.

Here's an article with a lot more specific information.

I've been off tobacco cigarettes entirely for about two or three weeks now, and I feel so much better than before. I had smoked for 14 years, a pack a day or more, and these devices have kept me from going back. I don't like the smell of tobacco smoke any more.

For those of you that may be interested in trying them - do not purchase the Blu e-cigs. They are shit and their marketing is shit. You've no doubt seen their commercials with the gist of the tagline being that you can use them anywhere. While they're legally correct, not all e-juice smells that great. There is still common courtesy that should be respected. You shower because you don't want your body odor to offend others, don't you? Think of your e-cig the same way. Make sure the people around you are cool with the smell of it. 

If there is interest, I'll add in a few sites I've had good experiences with as well as make recommendations - I'm just not adding them currently since I believe it would be considered advertising/spam under the forum's current rules. Although if you want to ask google about it, my particular set up is a Kanger Protank 2 with an eGo-V battery, and my e-juices are so flavory and delicious.

Unfortunately, there are many organizations that are pressuring the FDA to regulate e-cigs and e-liquid in the same manner as tobacco(despite there being NO tobacco used in e-cigs), citing supposed health risks that have been disproven, that the e-liquids are being made in sweet and fruity flavors to be marketed to children. My opinion on the latter claim is that while we should not be allowing children access to e-cigs(and every vendor I've come across will not sell to those under 18, and yes I'm aware that doesn't stop it from happening completely), getting rid of the sweet and fruity flavors just because children enjoy them is simply ridiculous. Just because I'm and adult, that doesn't mean that I don't like fruit or sweets with my nicotine. Honestly, I find many of the tobacco flavor blends outright disgusting compared to the various fruit and candy flavors of e-liquids out there. It's a large factor(but not the only one) in what helps keep me from picking up tobacco cigarettes again. For me, the fact is that I've found something to replace tobacco cigarettes that I enjoy more, does not harm the people around me, does not harm myself, and gives a greater latitude of freedom. Limiting the flavors it can come in will just drive many people back toward tobacco. Much of the backing for this anti-vaping movement is due to those that listen to mass media using outright lies and sensationalism to bring the public to a frenzy, knowing that most of them are too lazy to do their own extended research on the subject before committing to a side, as well as Big Tobacco providing funding for this to help keep their sales from decreasing as e-cig popularity rises. 

So, FA, what are your thoughts, questions, comments, or whatever else you have to say on the subject?


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## AlexInsane (Sep 24, 2013)

Here's what I say about the subject:

Smoking is bad for your health, addictive, and costly. DON'T FUCKING DO IT, DUMBASS. DON'T DO IT AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO BUY E-CIGARETTES AND LOOK LIKE A JACKASS.


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## Ikrit (Sep 24, 2013)

nothing will make you look like a homeless addict more then an e-cig


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## Dire Newt (Sep 24, 2013)

The crusade against e-cigarettes is kind of baffling. Oh no, how dare they find a healthier alternative for both themselves and the people around them.


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## Lobar (Sep 24, 2013)

I'd be interested, but what I'd want to use it for isn't soluble in polar solvents like PG or glycerin.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 24, 2013)

Ikrit said:


> nothing will make you look like a homeless addict more then an e-cig



Not entirely sure how this screams "homeless" to you, but all right.


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## Jabberwocky (Sep 24, 2013)

e-cigs make people look like desperate little shits.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 24, 2013)

Batsy said:


> e-cigs make people look like desperate little shits.



Could you elaborate on your stance?


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## PastryOfApathy (Sep 24, 2013)

I don't see the issue with 'em so long as they don't look too stupid and are actually relatively "healthy" as opposed to just being allegedly non-toxic until we find out they're filled with carcinogenic puppy tears 5 years down the line.


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## Aleu (Sep 24, 2013)

Personally I don't think they should be marketed to kids because of the nicotine but it shouldn't be TREATED and REGULATED like cigarettes if it has no tobacco. That makes about as much sense as treating and regulating coffee.


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## Jabberwocky (Sep 24, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Could you elaborate on your stance?


it can give people the wrong impression. a person with an e-cig which is obviously a fake cigarette might come across as so completely obsessed with smoking they would need a cig that can never run out. Also, it can make the person seem cheap.
That's what I meant.


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## AlexInsane (Sep 24, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Could you elaborate on your stance?



"I can't afford real cigarettes but GODDAMN I NEED MY FIX SO I'LL JUST SUCK THIS NICOTINE FLAVORED MIST THINGY. MMM-MM, BITCH. MAKES ME LOOK ALL MODERN AND HIP AND SHIT. PLUS, I BREATHE OUT AND IT'S LIKE I'M STANDING OUTSIDE IN WINTER, ONLY I'M INDOORS BECAUSE IT'S WATER VAPOR NOT SMOKE. SUCK IT!"

And the upshot is that most people that use these things go back to regular cigarettes anyway.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm kind of curious about them. 
The flavors are intriguing (it's like a little hookah wand), and I like that they're a healthier alternative.
I only smoke out of enjoyment, anyway. Not for the sake of addiction. So "weaning off cigarettes" doesn't do much for me.

Do they still create a nicotine high, and would it be cost effective for someone who only smokes a pack every 3 months or so?


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 24, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Personally I don't think they should be marketed to kids because of the nicotine but it shouldn't be TREATED and REGULATED like cigarettes if it has no tobacco. That makes about as much sense as treating and regulating coffee.



I absolutely agree. If you ask pretty much any e-cig vendor out there, which the majority of them are small, locally-owned businesses, they'll agree as well. With the exception of Blu, I've yet to even see a commercial for an e-cig, much less one targeted toward children. 



Batsy said:


> it can give people the wrong impression. a person with an e-cig which is obviously a fake cigarette might come across as so completely obsessed with smoking they would need a cig that can never run out. Also, it can make the person seem cheap.
> That's what I meant.



I'm not sure where you got the "it can never run out" idea, as the e-liquid is expended as the e-cig gets puffed on. It's just rechargeable and refillable. But either way, I'd rather be looked at as cheap while enjoying my now flavory addiction that does have lung cancer or a number of other diseases attached to it, than have to continue putting up with the stigma of being automatically judged as rude, smelly, and toxic.



AlexInsane said:


> "I can't afford real cigarettes but GODDAMN I NEED MY FIX SO I'LL JUST SUCK THIS NICOTINE FLAVORED MIST THINGY. MMM-MM, BITCH. MAKES ME LOOK ALL MODERN AND HIP AND SHIT. PLUS, I BREATHE OUT AND IT'S LIKE I'M STANDING OUTSIDE IN WINTER, ONLY I'M INDOORS BECAUSE IT'S WATER VAPOR NOT SMOKE. SUCK IT!"
> 
> And the upshot is that most people that use these things go back to regular cigarettes anyway.



Thanks for the trollbait, but I'm good for today. :3



Vaelarsa said:


> I'm kind of curious about them.
> The flavors are intriguing (it's like a little hookah wand), and I like that they're a healthier alternative.
> I only smoke out of enjoyment, anyway. Not for the sake of addiction. So "weaning off cigarettes" doesn't do much for me.
> 
> Do they still create a nicotine high, and would it be cost effective for someone who only smokes a pack every 3 months or so?



Yes, you can easily get a nicotine high off of them, especially if you get juices with higher levels of nicotine in them, such as the 18mg-24mg range. I love it.

As for being cost effective though, I'd have to say both yes and no:

The e-liquid is much cheaper than a pack of cigarettes for how long it lasts, however getting your tank and battery set up is an initial investment that is well over the cost of just grabbing a Bic and pack of Marlboros(or whatever brand you like). Mine was in the $50 range, but with care and maintenance, the savings over tobacco will pay for it. The less you smoke, the slower those savings will build up.


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## Saga (Sep 24, 2013)

AlexInsane said:


> "I can't afford real cigarettes but GODDAMN I NEED MY FIX SO I'LL JUST SUCK THIS NICOTINE FLAVORED MIST THINGY. MMM-MM, BITCH. MAKES ME LOOK ALL MODERN AND HIP AND SHIT. PLUS, I BREATHE OUT AND IT'S LIKE I'M STANDING OUTSIDE IN WINTER, ONLY I'M INDOORS BECAUSE IT'S WATER VAPOR NOT SMOKE. SUCK IT!"
> 
> And the upshot is that most people that use these things go back to regular cigarettes anyway.


HEY NO LOOKLOOKLOOK RANTING IN ALL CAPS AND FUCKING WITH OP IS FUN, RIGHT? LOLOLOL I LIKE THESE CRUISE CONTROL MAKING AN ASS OF MYSELF POSTS, THEN I CAN MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO BE MORE COURTEOUS ANYWAYS. LOL! MMM MM MMMMM LOVE THE TASTE OF THAT BAIT, CANT FORGET TO THROW IN A "QUOTE THAT ISNT ACTUALLY FROM ANYONES WRITING EVER" HERE AND THERE TOO.

kk.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 24, 2013)

Saga said:


> HEY NO LOOKLOOKLOOK RANTING IN ALL CAPS AND FUCKING WITH OP IS FUN, RIGHT? LOLOLOL I LIKE THESE CRUISE CONTROL MAKING AN ASS OF MYSELF POSTS, THEN I CAN MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO BE MORE COURTEOUS ANYWAYS. LOL! MMM MM MMMMM LOVE THE TASTE OF THAT BAIT, CANT FORGET TO THROW IN A "QUOTE THAT ISNT ACTUALLY FROM ANYONES WRITING EVER" HERE AND THERE TOO.
> 
> kk.



I like the part where he tried to step up his game after I didn't bite the first time. Think he'll go for number 3?


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## Saga (Sep 24, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> I like the part where he tried to step up his game after I didn't bite the first time. Think he'll go for number 3?


Wouldnt be surprised


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## Inciatus (Sep 24, 2013)

I would much rather people the e stuff rather than normal cigarettes.

I can see the issue about the marketing to kids but for the most part no.


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## Conker (Sep 24, 2013)

I don't smoke, and I've no plans to start, but I like these electronic cigarettes just because they seem like cool technology, and it's nice to finally see a healthier alternative to those with nicotine habits. 

I'd like to get my neighbor to try em, since he smokes a fuckload and these would be healthier, but he doesn't want to. Technology is so you can look at porn on your iPhone, not smoke out of computer!


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## LadyToorima (Sep 25, 2013)

My little brother tried the e-cig for a while. He liked it cause he got the pepsi flavor, but eventually he lost it and went mach to his normal cigarettes. (I myself have never, and will never smoke.) 

I think they are much better then regular cigarettes on a non-smoker stand point. It's healthier for me, as well as you to not smoke regular cigs. 

I'm also not sure where people are getting that they market to kids?


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 25, 2013)

Conker said:


> I don't smoke, and I've no plans to start, but I like these electronic cigarettes just because they seem like cool technology, and it's nice to finally see a healthier alternative to those with nicotine habits.
> 
> I'd like to get my neighbor to try em, since he smokes a fuckload and these would be healthier, but he doesn't want to. Technology is so you can look at porn on your iPhone, not smoke out of computer!



They're a very cool technology, in my opinion. The batteries and tanks look sleek, they're customizable, and the e-juices are delicious. Hopefully your neighbor will change his mind eventually.



LadyToorima said:


> My little brother tried the e-cig for a while. He liked it cause he got the pepsi flavor, but eventually he lost it and went mach to his normal cigarettes. (I myself have never, and will never smoke.)
> 
> I think they are much better then regular cigarettes on a non-smoker stand point. It's healthier for me, as well as you to not smoke regular cigs.
> 
> I'm also not sure where people are getting that they market to kids?



If you have any interest in trying it just for the flavors, you can get the e-liquids with no nicotine - then you're just puffing away for the flavor/smell with no worries about your health.

As for the marketing to kids thing, you remember how Camel cigarettes had the cartoony Joe Camel and Marlboro had the cowboy? Some stores come up with crazy colorful names/logos for their e-liquids and combined with the fruity and candy flavors that can be had, "all corporations are evil" logic dictates that this means they're marketing to kids rather than the people in their 20's that are the biggest group of smokers and more likely to find a healthier alternative more attractive than tobacco.


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## Minako2012 (Sep 25, 2013)

My sis uses one called EGO and she likes this one fluid called Zombie Zone it smells so lovely. I want incense that smells like it. She hasn't smoked a cigarette since getting it and it doesn't look bad a simple tank made of clear glass and the electronic bit is just a black cylinder with a light on the end. She tried the ones advertised and she hated it it even gave her headaches. This one she doesn't have nicotene withdrawls and is lowering the nicotine amount in her e-fluid


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## Umbra.Exe (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm not a smoker, but I do like the idea of e-cigs. They have far less harmful things in them, plus they actually smell kind of nice. And the user isn't left all stinky afterwards. (Even if you go outside to smoke a regular cigarette, you still bring the smell back in with you...)
I've seen a few people on campus with them this semester, I think it's a good idea. Like I said, they actually tend to smell rather sweet, if I can smell them at all.

I don't get how using one makes you look "cheap" though. Aren't they kind of expensive?


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 25, 2013)

Umbra.Exe said:


> I'm not a smoker, but I do like the idea of e-cigs. They have far less harmful things in them, plus they actually smell kind of nice. And the user isn't left all stinky afterwards. (Even if you go outside to smoke a regular cigarette, you still bring the smell back in with you...)
> I've seen a few people on campus with them this semester, I think it's a good idea. Like I said, they actually tend to smell rather sweet, if I can smell them at all.
> 
> I don't get how using one makes you look "cheap" though. Aren't they kind of expensive?



They can be, yes. A decent tank + battery will run at least $50 for anything more than a simple starter kit. People that build their own usually spend a few hundred dollars, at least, to purchase parts for experimenting, customizing, rebuilding, and such. 

If you were previously a smoker though, switching over to vaping will eventually pay for itself though - it's just getting the funds for that initial investment that most people have trouble getting past.


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## Rilvor (Sep 25, 2013)

I don't smoke myself. Tried the whole deal once upon a time and decided it wasn't for me.

But all the same this was a fascinating read, despite the horse rears attempting to block the view.


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## HipsterCoyote (Sep 25, 2013)

e cigs make people look like timelords because they look like sonic screwdrivers and other accessories. 

Also I'm pretty sure I can come up with a list of things that make you look way more like a homeless addict than an e-cig, like, 
- Wearing six layers of clothing in 80+ degree weather
- Advanced neck-beard from no opportunity to shave for days 
- Bloody knuckles and stains on fingers 
- Burns on the fingers and mouth 
- Collapsed nasal bone or screwed up nostrils 
- Living in a cheap hotel because you're on probation and can't afford actual rent


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 25, 2013)

Some of the responses here make me want to laugh and/or bitch slap the people that made them.
Ecigs have been around a lot longer than people realize.  It's just recently they have become more efficient and affordable.  I smoked tobacco for about 13 years, then ecigs came to be more abundant so I started using them.  It took me about 6 months to completely switch from tobacco cigs to ecigs.  I couldn't be happier since then because I can still get my nic fix without all the nasty shit inside a normal cig.  

Oh, then people say nicotine is still poisonous.  Bullshit, nicotine by itslelf is no more harmful or addictive than caffeine.  Its all the chemicals and carcinogens that makes smoking destroy ones body.  All ecigs use a pg/vg mix as the base with flavoring and different percentages of nicotine.  The only byproduct of an ecig is water vapor and nothing more.  And to the people that shall remain unnamed saying using a ecig makes you look desperate, homeless, and whatever bullshit spewed from your feeble ignorant brains...





Go fuck yourselves, you insufferable cunts.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Sep 25, 2013)

As long as you're not one of those insufferable cunts who smokes them inside restaurants just to prove that they can, I have no problem with them.  Although the vape that I've smelled hasn't been too pleasant, it doesn't make me physically ill like real cig smoke does.


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## CaptainCool (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm fine with them. Then again, I am also fine with regular cigarettes.


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## Wither (Sep 25, 2013)

Healthier alternative to smoking for everyone? Fuck that. I want to gag on people's smoke _moar_. :I

E cigs look cool as shit too


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## Hewge (Sep 25, 2013)

So basically these have no drawback (yet), and the only argument behind people not liking these things is; "They make them look like douchebags!" ?

Sounds about right, actually.


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## Inpw (Sep 25, 2013)

AlexInsane said:


> Here's what I say about the subject:
> 
> Smoking is bad for your health, addictive, and costly. DON'T FUCKING DO IT, DUMBASS. DON'T DO IT AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO BUY E-CIGARETTES AND LOOK LIKE A JACKASS.



This reminds me so much of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUEjnoWpdao


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Sep 25, 2013)

I'd rather have everyone smoke E-cigs. 
As far as my knowledge goes, they are healthier, reusable and don't mess up the streets with their filters.

Overall smoking is pretty dumb. I tried it, gave it up pretty soon because I saw it pointless.
But if I HAD to smoke, it'd be E-cigs or a pipe.


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## Jabberwocky (Sep 25, 2013)

I can see the benefits of them health wise. I cannot smoke, never planned to, and I cannot be around smoking people because it triggers my asthma more quickly than I would like. I apologize for my bullshit comment earlier, I was in a foul mood and I was an ass.


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## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2013)

After seeing 3 cig fires in the garbage cans outside of the library, I prefer them to actual cigarettes.


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## DrDingo (Sep 25, 2013)

Even if E-Cigs become absolutely huge, there will still be people that smoke regular ones. I can't imagine a bunch of hooded teenagers in an alley peer-pressuring someone into doing it, saying 'Hey, don't be a wuss, smoke this e-cig.' There's always going to be the rebellious type of people, as well as the sort of people that just prefer the classic. Like drinking Coca-cola over Coke zero.


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## Kosdu (Sep 25, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> Even if E-Cigs become absolutely huge, there will still be people that smoke regular ones. I can't imagine a bunch of hooded teenagers in an alley peer-pressuring someone into doing it, saying 'Hey, don't be a wuss, smoke this e-cig.' There's always going to be the rebellious type of people, as well as the sort of people that just prefer the classic. Like drinking Coca-cola over Coke zero.



Off topic: 
I would never drink something with artificial sweeteners given the choice. It is my belief those are far worse for you than simple straight sugar.

Which is why I like mexican cola so much.


On topic:
Nicotine is still bad for you and best to avoid it, but it is a far wiser choice to simply use an e-cig and remove all that nasty crap.

Do they have similar for weed?


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## TheMetalVelocity (Sep 25, 2013)

AlexInsane said:


> Here's what I say about the subject:
> 
> Smoking is bad for your health, addictive, and costly. DON'T FUCKING DO IT, DUMBASS. DON'T DO IT AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO BUY E-CIGARETTES AND LOOK LIKE A JACKASS.


 I know right. If you're gonna smoke something then why not weed? at least it has health benefits. Since electronic cigarettes are out, why do people continue to smoke the regular ones?


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 25, 2013)

People acting like you can just buy weed from Amazon or Walmart or something.
NO.

I kind of want one of these now, but they're like $65. That's probably a pretty prominent reason not to rush out and get one. Ouch.
I pay $5 for a pack of Marlboros maybe once in 3 - 4 months.
But you can get fucking cappucino flavored liquid. So I'm really tempted.

The "homeless addict" comment kind of makes me WTF because what kind of homeless addict can afford $70 for an electronic device version of something they can walk to the store and buy for $3 instead?
What kinda fucking homeless are we talking about, here?
They sound better off than me.


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## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2013)

TheMetalVelocity said:


> I know right. If you're gonna smoke something then why not weed? at least it has health benefits. Since electronic cigarettes are out, why do people continue to smoke the regular ones?



Because cigarettes are still cheaper than e-cigs, that's why. Once the price drops for the device plus the refills, you may see more people using them than cigarettes.

At business that cater to smoking paraphernalia, you can buy single cigs for 50 cents a piece, about 60-65 for the flavored tobacco ones.


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## Teal (Sep 25, 2013)

I like it when people use e-cigs because they don't trigger my asthma.


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## AlexInsane (Sep 25, 2013)

The people in this thread saying they spend $5 a month on cigarettes are not smokers, in the same way that people that play golf a couple times a year are not golfers. 

To be a smoker, smoking has to permeate your entire existence, your clothing, your teeth, the furniture you habitually smoke on. To be a smoker, you must be able to smoke a pack of cigarettes in under an hour, and, having smoked one pack, immediately move onto another. Your ideal Christmas present is a carton of Marlboros or, if you have friends that aren't cheap, five cartons of Marlboros. You have a cough that is so bad it sounds like someone hitting a brick wall with a sock full of cooked oatmeal.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 25, 2013)

And now I can't tell if Alex hates cigarettes with a level that Rob Reiner from the South Park episode would envy,
or if he loves the absolute hell out of them.

This turned into some creepy fetishistic shit.


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## GovernmentProperty (Sep 25, 2013)

AlexInsane said:


> Here's what I say about the subject:
> 
> Smoking is bad for your health, addictive, and costly. DON'T FUCKING DO IT, DUMBASS. DON'T DO IT AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO BUY E-CIGARETTES AND LOOK LIKE A JACKASS.



Some people still find pleasure in smoking. I myself have always enjoyed it, it's just such a pleasant feeling. 
I only smoke cigarettes socially now (so maybe about 2 packs in a year, give or take) so I still get a nice nicotine buzz. Brings me back to when I was 16 and I'd just smoke cigarettes on the porch at night during the cool autumn nights. Sure it's terrible for you, that's why I stopped..but what's life if you can't enjoy it ? I know some people who even have a fetish for cigarettes, they find the act of smoking quite attractive.




Vaelarsa said:


> People acting like you can just buy weed from Amazon or Walmart or something.
> NO.



Actually, you can buy illegal substances conveniently over the internet and get them mailed to you, you just have to know where to look.


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## AlexInsane (Sep 25, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> And now I can't tell if Alex hates cigarettes with a level that Rob Reiner from the South Park episode would envy,
> or if he loves the absolute hell out of them.
> 
> This turned into some creepy fetishistic shit.



Oh, I hate cigarettes, and since my immediate family are smokers, I've had plenty of time to observe their habits and the effect smoking has on them. 

I've never smoked and never will. I'd rather blow money on cracking packs of Magic: The Gathering than on cigarettes.


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## Lobar (Sep 25, 2013)

Kosdu said:


> Do they have similar for weed?



No, THC is a very large and mostly non-polar molecule, so it's insoluble in e-liquid.


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## powderhound (Sep 25, 2013)

This thread is timely and important.

I have started actually recommending e-cig alternatives to every smoker. It's part of my schpeel now. The feedback has been mixed and it seems people's success in switching over is proportional to their ability to afford a good one and find cartridges with high enough concentrations of nicotine. Unfortunately most don't have the where with all to operate the Internet and can not afford $50 for something (even if it is cheaper in the long run).

I would be very pleased if you could reccomend something cheap, easily available, that works well which I can point people towards. 

I see more disease caused by tobacco smoking than perhaps any other entity. More people end up on ventilators  every day in the US from COPD probably than all other medical problems combined. I feel that e-cigs are a dramatically better alternative if one chooses to smoke. The nicotine alone causes a slew of cardiovascular and cancer related problems so e-cigs are certainly not without their drawbacks. I just think they are an order of magnitude better health wise even if you are getting other chemicals and plasticines from a cheap one.

I have also found a number of younger people who quit by weaning themselves off with e-cigs that failed many other programs.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 25, 2013)

AlexInsane said:


> Oh, I hate cigarettes, and since my immediate family are smokers, I've had plenty of time to observe their habits and the effect smoking has on them.
> 
> I've never smoked and never will. I'd rather blow money on cracking packs of Magic: The Gathering than on cigarettes.


A lot of my family, too, are smokers. My mom is a smoker.
A lot of my friends are smokers.

I have never seen smokers to the level which you describe.
Ever.
Maybe a pack a day. Not that kind of crack addict level shit.

What even in the fuck.

By your logic, my mother is a "casual", because she doesn't obsess with cigarettes with absolutely every fiber of her being, every second of the day.
And let me assure you, she is not. She's tried to quit several times.


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## powderhound (Sep 25, 2013)

Kosdu said:


> Do they have similar for weed?




Sort of, although they are not the same in principle. There are lots of marajuana vaporizors. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_(inhalation_device)



Lobar said:


> THC is a very large and mostly non-polar molecule, so it's insoluble in e-liquid.



But as Lobar said THC is non-polar so it dissolves in fats well. THC butter is a potent and great alternative. All the talk about medical marajuana and legalizing it. I think traditionaly smoking it is a bad idea when, if needed, you can get high in other ways with less health drawbacks.


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## Aleu (Sep 25, 2013)

Kosdu said:


> Off topic:
> I would never drink something with artificial sweeteners given the choice. It is my belief those are far worse for you than simple straight sugar.
> 
> Which is why I like mexican cola so much.
> ...


Nicotine isn't BAD for you any more than caffeine is. 

I don't see why they'd have anything similar for weed given that the weed is illegal and the THC is what makes it illegal...which is the point of smoking weed for a lot of users.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 25, 2013)

Weed's not illegal, here. 
Not right now.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 25, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> Even if E-Cigs become absolutely huge, there will still be people that smoke regular ones. I can't imagine a bunch of hooded teenagers in an alley peer-pressuring someone into doing it, saying 'Hey, don't be a wuss, smoke this e-cig.' There's always going to be the rebellious type of people, as well as the sort of people that just prefer the classic. Like drinking Coca-cola over Coke zero.



Actually, right now, analysts are predicting that e-cig sales will overtake tobacco sales by 2021, assuming they remain free from being lumped in with tobacco products for the purposes of regulation - but even then, that would only slow the progress of the industry rather than stop it all together.



powderhound said:


> This thread is timely and important.
> 
> I have started actually recommending e-cig alternatives to every smoker. It's part of my schpeel now. The feedback has been mixed and it seems people's success in switching over is proportional to their ability to afford a good one and find cartridges with high enough concentrations of nicotine. Unfortunately most don't have the where with all to operate the Internet and can not afford $50 for something (even if it is cheaper in the long run).
> 
> ...



If you're looking at stop-smoking aids, pretty much your only options at this point are gum, patches, Chantix, or e-cigs(with or without nicotine). I saw in a study somewhere recently that because of the variability and customization e-cigs offer, they have a higher success rate of getting people off of tobacco, but even then it isn't perfect. There are still people that "fall off the wagon" as it were. 

This is only my opinion, but I think the biggest reason behind that is that the industry is so small right now, it's kind of hard to find the proper information on what set-up you should get for your e-cig. Looking through a vendor site full of different tanks and batteries can be a little intimidating at first simply because the technology is so new and unheard-of. You have to do research and a bit of trial-and-error. 

For me? Cartridges, or cartomizers as they're called, are not the way to go. I tried them and hated them. I got what they call a glassomizer. It's a glass tank that I manually refill with my e-liquid rather than a replaceable cartridge. It gives me better flavor, better latitude on voltage adjustment(which means I can freely adjust the throat hit I want), and I just generally find it easier to squirt a bit of liquid in the tank rather than having to fiddle with replacing a cartridge and finding a place to throw out the old one.


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## Daryx (Sep 25, 2013)

The amount of hostility in this thread is baffling. I seriously don't understand what anyone would have against electronic cigarettes. I mean, it's not like real cigarettes are better...


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## powderhound (Sep 25, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Nicotine isn't BAD for you any more than caffeine is.
> .



This is not really correct. In terms of lethal doses nicotine is much more toxic than caffeine. 

However in the setting of recreational use, nicotine causes perminant disease while caffeine's health effects are more transient. Much of the detrimental effects of nicotine are related to its ability to severely dammage and change the structure of blood vessels through a variety of pathways thus setting you up for vulnerable plaque formation and rupture, stroke, heart attack, organ dysfunction, infections, major problems with tumor growth and proliferation... Thus an e-cig is still expected to contribute significantly to atherosclerosis and other problems. Less than a regular ciggerette though.

However much of this data, while very good, is from animal studies and is not epidemiological. This research is new. Previously many of the adverse affects of nicotine where thought to be secondary to endorphin release/ sympathetic up regulation and thus similar to other stimulants like caffeine. 

In simple terms, your sudden drop dead heart attack is caused by a tiny tare in the wall of the blood vessel that causes a clot to instantly form over it plugging up the vessel. The vessel tares because its weak and friable because the inside of the vessel has been weakened and dramaticaly changed by a cascade of biophysical changes that nicotine accelerates. In addition stimulants/stress create flow conditions that instantly put higher strain on such weak points finally causing rupture which is why on TV they guy has a heart attack after stressed.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 25, 2013)

Daryx said:


> The amount of hostility in this thread is baffling. I seriously don't understand what anyone would have against electronic cigarettes. I mean, it's not like real cigarettes are better...



The amount of hostility toward e-cigs in general is pretty baffling, honestly. I can see where Big Tobacco and Big Pharmaceuticals is coming from since the presence of e-cigs hurts the sales of both tobacco and nicotine gum/patches, but even a surprising number of nonprofit anti-smoking groups are against e-cigs as well, lobbying to get them lumped in with and subject to the same regulations tobacco and tobacco users must adhere to.


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## Lomberdia (Sep 25, 2013)

I've seen and been around people at my last job that smoked e-cigs. I'm sure if the smoke that they blow out has any harmful effects to others that breath it in like normal cigs but I still continue to avoid people that are smoking, e-cig or not. I have gotten a few whiffs of the flavor from the e-cig smoke and though some does smell good, so does a cherry cigarillo and that doesn't make it any less harmful to me to breath in just because it smells nice.

So is the smoke e-cig users breath out actually smoke or is it a harmless mist?


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## Conker (Sep 25, 2013)

Lomberdia said:


> I've seen and been around people at my last job that smoked e-cigs. I'm sure if the smoke that they blow out has any harmful effects to others that breath it in like normal cigs but I still continue to avoid people that are smoking, e-cig or not. I have gotten a few whiffs of the flavor from the e-cig smoke and though some does smell good, so does a cherry cigarillo and that doesn't make it any less harmful to me to breath in just because it smells nice.
> 
> So is the smoke e-cig users breath out actually smoke or is it a harmless mist?


It's harmless mist: water vapor.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 25, 2013)

Lomberdia said:


> I've seen and been around people at my last job that smoked e-cigs. I'm sure if the smoke that they blow out has any harmful effects to others that breath it in like normal cigs but I still continue to avoid people that are smoking, e-cig or not. I have gotten a few whiffs of the flavor from the e-cig smoke and though some does smell good, so does a cherry cigarillo and that doesn't make it any less harmful to me to breath in just because it smells nice.
> 
> So is the smoke e-cig users breath out actually smoke or is it a harmless mist?



While it looks similar to smoke, it is not smoke at all. It is harmless vapor. In the OP, I included an ingredient list and short breakdown of each one, all of which are harmless - especially secondhand. There is no tobacco involved, therefore no tobacco smoke.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 25, 2013)

What brands would you recommend?

Considering this, but it won't be this upcoming month. Maybe November. Maybe.

Not looking for anything super expensive, but I also don't want super cheapy, crappy, "gonna break in a week" types.
I like the way the pen style ones look.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Sep 25, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> What brands would you recommend?
> 
> Considering this, but it won't be this upcoming month. Maybe November. Maybe.
> 
> ...



Generally, it's recommended that you begin with a starter kit. I've heard good things about the Kanger E-Smart kit, which is fairly inexpensive. As far as juices, that's mostly trial and error, but I've heard excellent reviews of The Vapor Chef. There are also many other sites out there - I generally go off the recommendations of Reddit's /r/electronic_cigarette subreddit. 

If you want something a little more advanced, I have a Kanger Protank 2 and an eGo-V battery.

If the flavors on The Vapor Chef site or that start kit don't appeal to you, PM me and I'll drop a handful of other links on you.


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## Fallowfox (Sep 26, 2013)

AlexInsane said:


> The people in this thread saying they spend $5 a month on cigarettes are not smokers, in the same way that people that play golf a couple times a year are not golfers.
> 
> To be a smoker, smoking has to permeate your entire existence, your clothing, your teeth, the furniture you habitually smoke on. To be a smoker, you must be able to smoke a pack of cigarettes in under an hour, and, having smoked one pack, immediately move onto another. Your ideal Christmas present is a carton of Marlboros or, if you have friends that aren't cheap, five cartons of Marlboros. You have a cough that is so bad it sounds like someone hitting a brick wall with a sock full of cooked oatmeal.



And you aren't a true scot if you don't wear a kilt.


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## Arianna Dragoness (Dec 11, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Generally, it's recommended that you begin with a starter kit. I've heard good things about the Kanger E-Smart kit, which is fairly inexpensive. As far as juices, that's mostly trial and error, but I've heard excellent reviews of The Vapor Chef. There are also many other sites out there - I generally go off the recommendations of Reddit's /r/electronic_cigarette subreddit.
> 
> If you want something a little more advanced, I have a Kanger Protank 2 and an eGo-V battery.
> 
> If the flavors on The Vapor Chef site or that start kit don't appeal to you, PM me and I'll drop a handful of other links on you.



I tried to PM you. It didn't go through. Guess PMing doesn't work in read only mode. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that Vape Dojo is all restocked now. I just ordered that starter kit you recommended along with some juice sample packs. I'll  let you know how it all works out.


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## Aleu (Dec 11, 2013)

Arianna Dragoness said:


> I tried to PM you. It didn't go through. Guess PMing doesn't work in read only mode. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that Vape Dojo is all restocked now. I just ordered that starter kit you recommended along with some juice sample packs. I'll  let you know how it all works out.



PMs work here :/
Also we still had the Vape thread. Why was bringing up this thread necessary?


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Dec 12, 2013)

The teacher I had two years ago for English class was a big chain smoker, but I've heard he's gone on to electric cigarettes now. I'm not 100% sure though because he isn't my teacher anymore.


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## Cocobanana (Dec 12, 2013)

My brother uses e-cigs. It doesn't bother me much except one of the flavors smelled like spit so that was kind of gross.


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## pigscale (Dec 13, 2013)

People using a more healthy and more safe alternative, which also doesn't smell gross makes me so mad!! wow i am sure very angry at this!!


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## Student (Dec 13, 2013)

I recently purchased a couple nicotine-free disposable ecigs. The flavour is pleasant and the "smoke" is kind of relaxing to see. However I noticed that if I use them too much I get a sore throat and my mouth gets a longterm aftertaste. I definitely don't think the things are harmless as inhaling polypropylene glycol and whatever they use to flavour it probably interferes with the tissues in the lungs, but I also cannot imagine that being any worse than inhaling burning plant material.



Conker said:


> It's harmless mist: water vapor.



Nope. It is not water vapour. As I said above, it's a mixture of propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and whatever they use to flavour it. The "smoke" is just those ingredients that have been atomized. The first two ingredients have been used in commercial smoke machines for many years without any observed health effects under regular use, however the effect of the flavours on lung tissues is currently unknown.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 13, 2013)

Student said:


> I recently purchased a couple nicotine-free disposable ecigs. The flavour is pleasant and the "smoke" is kind of relaxing to see. However I noticed that if I use them too much I get a sore throat and my mouth gets a longterm aftertaste. I definitely don't think the things are harmless as inhaling polypropylene glycol and whatever they use to flavour it probably interferes with the tissues in the lungs, but I also cannot imagine that being any worse than inhaling burning plant material.



The reason for your aftertaste and the sore throat could be caused by a couple of things(mild PG or VG allergy, perhaps, among others) but chances are it's mostly due to the fact that the vast majority of the disposable e-cigs out there are just generally shitty quality. Their food grade flavorings are likely below par, the equipment is made as cheaply as possible, and it's just all around a pretty crappy product. If you look around in your town, you can probably find a local B&M vape shop, and they'll be able to show you what a proper e-cig can do and what it's supposed to taste like. 

As far as propylene glycol, there have been several studies showing that, even when inhaled, it causes no detrimental effects to the body. It's also an ingredient recognized as safe for human consumption by the FDA. It's in quite a bit of mass manufactured snacks and foods - next time you buy a bag of chips, take a look at the ingredients list. If your vape has *poly*propylene glycol in it, though, you need to put that shit down and warn anyone else you see using that product - it is not safe, and actually classified as hazardous by inchem.org.


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## WolfsFang (Dec 15, 2013)

Glad i found this. Been using hookah pens for awhile now. Just got into the mechanical mods and sub ohm vaping. Just purchased a nzonic with a igo-w, fitted a dual micro vert style coil with cotton wick. Here is a video of my friends and my build.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Wv2AzmsOoNekxvNHZLdXRwcG8/edit?usp=sharing


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 15, 2013)

WolfsFang said:


> Glad i found this. Been using hookah pens for awhile now. Just got into the mechanical mods and sub ohm vaping. Just purchased a nzonic with a igo-w, fitted a dual micro vert style coil with cotton wick. Here is a video of my friends and my build.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Wv2AzmsOoNekxvNHZLdXRwcG8/edit?usp=sharing



Glad you found your way into it! Can you post a couple pictures of your coil set up? Are you sub-ohming? Looks like you're getting some pretty good clouds there.


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## WolfsFang (Dec 15, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Glad you found your way into it! Can you post a couple pictures of your coil set up? Are you sub-ohming? Looks like you're getting some pretty good clouds there.


I am at .24 ohms (14.667 amps and 66.667 watts). I just got some xc116 wick which is super crazy. Can heat it to 2000 degrees and it just turns white. If I want to change the flavor all I need to do it take a match and light the xc116 on fire and just add new flavor. Xc116 is not even allowed outside of the united states since it is a military grade ceramic.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 16, 2013)

WolfsFang said:


> I am at .24 ohms (14.667 amps and 66.667 watts). I just got some xc116 wick which is super crazy. Can heat it to 2000 degrees and it just turns white. If I want to change the flavor all I need to do it take a match and light the xc116 on fire and just add new flavor. Xc116 is not even allowed outside of the united states since it is a military grade ceramic.



If you're running your vape hot enough that you need military grade ceramic so it doesn't burn, you may need to consider adjusting your watts and/or volts on it, dude. Going as low as 0.24 ohms is kind of pushing the safety limit anyway, even for sub-ohming. 

Have you tried grabbing up some kanthal and wrapping up to around 0.6-0.8, and switching to straight sterilized cotton for your wick? I hear great things about that kind of set up all the time. 

As long as it works for you and the battery doesn't explode, more power to ya though.


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## Loki's Right Hand (Dec 16, 2013)

E-cigs are pretty cool. There's one that came out that has regular, low, and no nicotine options, AND looks super rad (one has a blue gem at the tip that glows and one has a red one), comes in black and white, and I think a metallic color? Idfk... but I'd totally buy a black one with a blue glowy tip because I'm stupid and like glowy things.

Never mind I don't smoke, although sometimes I want to because I am stupidly stressed out. Buuuuuut I'd probably just get the one with the no nicotine and then use it with Tron cosplay.

P.
S.
I think they're fine, though they shouldn't be marketed to kids as has been pointed out. I also think they don't need to be regulated the same way as regular cigs. Also lol at the people who say it makes you look desperate. _Here's a hint- _You clearly have no idea what addiction is if you think it's simple to get past. Secondly- better e-cigs than something that might kill 2/3 of the people in the room with it's stealthy chemicals. Except some people seem of this idea that it's okay for cig smokers to die because they suck amirite? >_>


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## taras hyena (Dec 16, 2013)

Just going to put my two cents in.

I'm actually on the nicotine patch right now, trying to put the habit down for the - oh who the fuck knows the number - time. But the bottom line is this; will I recommend a healthier alternative to a current smoker? Always. And straight up dropping the habit is fine, too. Nicotine does nothing to improve health, but the switch over to electronic cigarettes from conventional tobacco products is apparently beneficial to health and lung capacity. But keep in mind, this is a new thing and new information could come to light at any time. So you really need to be cautious.

Now, would I recommend that a non-smoker start smoking e-cigs or using any kind of nicotine product? No. I can't think of anyone who would. There is not one single benefit to it. You can say "it relieves stress." No more than a few doses of motrin would relieve the pain of a pulled muscle. It would be temporary. The only thing that would fix the problem with your stress is getting to what's causing it, not self medicating and building an addictive habit.

People say that e-cigarettes look cool and all that jazz, some people do. Personally, I think it makes you look like a product sponge twat. But whatever, who am I to judge? Does this "look cool" appeal to the youth? I don't think it appeals to the youth as much as doing what they're not told to do. So I'm just sitting on the sidelines in support or admonishment of e-cigs, watching people make their own decisions. It's not my life, I can't make people choose one way or the other - and I don't want to.

Just know what you're doing to your body, and if you feel it's worth any inherent risk, then alright.


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## WolfsFang (Dec 16, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> If you're running your vape hot enough that you need military grade ceramic so it doesn't burn, you may need to consider adjusting your watts and/or volts on it, dude. Going as low as 0.24 ohms is kind of pushing the safety limit anyway, even for sub-ohming.
> 
> Have you tried grabbing up some kanthal and wrapping up to around 0.6-0.8, and switching to straight sterilized cotton for your wick? I hear great things about that kind of set up all the time.
> 
> As long as it works for you and the battery doesn't explode, more power to ya though.


I have a sony 18650 which can handle up to 30amps so I have a very long way to go before it will pop


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 16, 2013)

taras hyena said:


> Just going to put my two cents in.
> 
> I'm actually on the nicotine patch right now, trying to put the habit down for the - oh who the fuck knows the number - time. But the bottom line is this; will I recommend a healthier alternative to a current smoker? Always. And straight up dropping the habit is fine, too. Nicotine does nothing to improve health, but the switch over to electronic cigarettes from conventional tobacco products is apparently beneficial to health and lung capacity. But keep in mind, this is a new thing and new information could come to light at any time. So you really need to be cautious.
> 
> ...



I agree with most everything you're saying here, just a couple of points I feel need to be touched on here:

E-cigs are both a nicotine product and not at the same time - meaning you can, in fact, vape without getting any nicotine at all. Nearly every vendor does offer 0mg nicotine juice. Why do it at all if there's no nicotine? Some people weaned themselves down to 0mg and the physical act of vaping is enough of a placebo at this point, others like the huge selection of flavors, some like to play with the various gear that's coming out, and a few people just like to play with the vapor(like when you were a kid and it was really cold, and you'd pretend the condensation from your warm breath in the freezing air was cigarette smoke). That being the case, I won't tell non-smokers never to pick up an e-cig, I'll just recommend that if they do, they stick to 0mg juice so it never forms an addiction.

Saying e-cigs make you look like a "product sponge twat" could be said for practically any commercial product out there - iPads, any given cell phone, your car, even the clothes you wear. It's really not good or fair comparison. 

The appeal to youth is a touchy subject. You won't find a vendor that will knowingly sell to a minor, though. While that's easier to prevent in B&Ms than it is online, the key component here is the parents that should be doing their duty in looking at what their child is getting ahold of. It's been too long since I've been in high school for me to think like a teenager, so I can sit here and give conjecture about the appeal of it to today's youths all day, but that wouldn't make me necessarily correct(which my best guess is either the "because we're told not to" appeal or "it's a new tech gadget and it's shiny" appeal). 

I do agree that if you get into this, you should keep up with the information being revealed about it, as there are tests being conducted every day on it, and there hasn't been enough time to determine long term side effects, if there are any at all. The entirety of the credible data available, however, shows that properly mixed and inhaled juice(that is, juice sticking to the formula of only PG, VG, nicotine, and food grade flavorings) poses no health risk currently. Unfortunately, there are several scare articles out there making outrageous claims, but they have nothing to back them up - the key is to always look for a source of information. As an example: a few years ago, it was discovered that some vendors were using diacetyl as a food flavoring. Diacetyl was used as a buttery flavoring for popcorn for a while, but workers in the factories would inhale it during the normal course of their day and many ended up getting bronchiolitis(for which there isn't a known cure yet). It has since been banned as an ingredient in popcorn, and e-cig vendors will not use it in their juice any longer either.


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## lukefrost (Dec 18, 2013)

Kids on my bus use them to look cool....just why?


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 18, 2013)

So they can look cool.


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## WolfsFang (Dec 18, 2013)

Just rebuilt my piece. Used 26g wire, 3 wraps around my xc116. Running .2ohms @80 watts @20amps
https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1471249_10201345891189023_1765583852_n.jpg


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## Kosdu (Dec 18, 2013)

I huffed my friend's e-cig at his offer, and am considering buying one when I can.

My reasons being that I believe it would be good for my lungs, sometimes they have issues especially at high altitudes. I would simply buy a non-nicotine product after I examine the ingrediants, or just plain water.

I also might look into making herbal solutions aswell, but would have to do a good deal of research on it first.


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## Newol Fate (Dec 18, 2013)

Let me start off with saying that I'm a user of Dip tobacco, so I doubt I  will be taken seriously in this matter. Take that for what you will,  but for me there is no stigma about E-cigs. I'm not particularly fond of  smoking. I'm not a smoker, I stick to my dip. There are completely  non-tobacco and non-nicotine dip alternatives too, Most of them are made  from corn silk. I believe that E-cigs should be sold from the same  stance as products like Smokey Mountain, where in it should be marketed  the same way as tobacco products, requiring the consumer to be of a  certain age so as to avoid the product from being used as a trainer for  the next tier up. And from there, I personally have no trouble at all  with E-cigs once that criteria is met. Though I am no smoker, I have smoked. I have smoked E-cigs before as well, and I won't lie and say that I didn't enjoy them. They actually can be rather tasty, and again, it has several benefits over smoking actual cigarettes with no stink and just being water vapor. I would take a similar approach to them as I would say, when a teacher gets onto me and a friend of mine playing Yu-Gi-Oh in the class room of my auto tech class after we've finished our work. Is it your think? No, perhaps not. But are we breaking any rules? No. Are we causing any trouble? No. Are we enjoying ourselves? Yes. 

So the only real problem here is the one that you make of it all. I can understand if its not your thing, but frankly E-cigs really just aren't destructive so the hate Vibing really isn't that necessary. But again, I dip, so I don't really expect my point to really have actual thought put into it. Also, 



DrDingo said:


> Even if E-Cigs become absolutely huge, there will still be people that smoke regular ones. I can't imagine a bunch of hooded teenagers in an alley peer-pressuring someone into doing it, saying 'Hey, don't be a wuss, smoke this e-cig.' There's always going to be the rebellious type of people, as well as the sort of people that just prefer the classic. Like drinking Coca-cola over Coke zero.



I find myself having to agree with this statement, because as I said I have used alternative options for dip, and I Much prefer the real thing over it. Especially Stokers. Stokers is good.


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## WolfsFang (Dec 18, 2013)

Newol Fate said:


> Let me start off with saying that I'm a user of Dip tobacco, so I doubt I  will be taken seriously in this matter. Take that for what you will,  but for me there is no stigma about E-cigs. I'm not particularly fond of  smoking. I'm not a smoker, I stick to my dip. There are completely  non-tobacco and non-nicotine dip alternatives too, Most of them are made  from corn silk. I believe that E-cigs should be sold from the same  stance as products like Smokey Mountain, where in it should be marketed  the same way as tobacco products, requiring the consumer to be of a  certain age so as to avoid the product from being used as a trainer for  the next tier up. And from there, I personally have no trouble at all  with E-cigs once that criteria is met. Though I am no smoker, I have smoked. I have smoked E-cigs before as well, and I won't lie and say that I didn't enjoy them. They actually can be rather tasty, and again, it has several benefits over smoking actual cigarettes with no stink and just being water vapor. I would take a similar approach to them as I would say, when a teacher gets onto me and a friend of mine playing Yu-Gi-Oh in the class room of my auto tech class after we've finished our work. Is it your think? No, perhaps not. But are we breaking any rules? No. Are we causing any trouble? No. Are we enjoying ourselves? Yes.
> 
> So the only real problem here is the one that you make of it all. I can understand if its not your thing, but frankly E-cigs really just aren't destructive so the hate Vibing really isn't that necessary. But again, I dip, so I don't really expect my point to really have actual thought put into it. Also,
> 
> ...


You have be to 18+ in order to buy any kind of product related to e-cigs. I know the local store for me will kick anyone out under 18 since they cant sell them anything. Also for your last statement, alot of the people i hang around with switched to e-cigs after showing them.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 18, 2013)

Newol Fate said:


> Let me start off with saying that I'm a user of Dip tobacco, so I doubt I  will be taken seriously in this matter. Take that for what you will,  but for me there is no stigma about E-cigs. I'm not particularly fond of  smoking. I'm not a smoker, I stick to my dip. There are completely  non-tobacco and non-nicotine dip alternatives too, Most of them are made  from corn silk. I believe that E-cigs should be sold from the same  stance as products like Smokey Mountain, where in it should be marketed  the same way as tobacco products, requiring the consumer to be of a  certain age so as to avoid the product from being used as a trainer for  the next tier up. And from there, I personally have no trouble at all  with E-cigs once that criteria is met. Though I am no smoker, I have smoked. I have smoked E-cigs before as well, and I won't lie and say that I didn't enjoy them. They actually can be rather tasty, and again, it has several benefits over smoking actual cigarettes with no stink and just being water vapor. I would take a similar approach to them as I would say, when a teacher gets onto me and a friend of mine playing Yu-Gi-Oh in the class room of my auto tech class after we've finished our work. Is it your think? No, perhaps not. But are we breaking any rules? No. Are we causing any trouble? No. Are we enjoying ourselves? Yes.
> 
> So the only real problem here is the one that you make of it all. I can understand if its not your thing, but frankly E-cigs really just aren't destructive so the hate Vibing really isn't that necessary. But again, I dip, so I don't really expect my point to really have actual thought put into it. Also,
> 
> ...



Your opinion is just as valid as the next person's here - e-cigs aren't exclusively for people that smoke, you know. I've seen a few people that want to get away from using dip turn to vaping as well. It certainly has some advantages over even dipping - avoiding mouth diseases(I'm sure you've seen pictures/heard stories about people having to have parts of their jaw/cheek/tongue removed and such), and not having to carry a gross spit bottle around with you, just to name a couple. I won't deny that it's likely easier for a smoker to make the switch though, as one of the hardest things to let go of isn't necessarily nicotine, but the sensation of your preferred ingestion method - for smokers, it's the throat hit, and I imagine that for dippers, there's a similarly enjoyable sensation when putting the wad of tobacco in your lip or cheek.

As I've stated a few other times in this thread alone, I've yet to come across a vendor that will sell to anyone that isn't of legal age to smoke. And with the exception of Blu(which is garbage in the e-cig world), they're largely not advertised except in vaping communities to begin with. In regards to things like who they're sold to and advertising, you them being largely treated like tobacco products begin with already.


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## Arianna Dragoness (Dec 20, 2013)

Ok, I've been a two pack a day Marlboro smoker for the past 20 years. ( yeah, I know. I'm lucky to be alive with no lung problems. Please hold comments  )

Sooooo... after reading this thread about the wonders of vaping I decided to give it an honest try. ( previously I HAVE tried a few e-cigs like blue, but in my opinion they were crap which gave me NO satisfaction at all. ) So after a PM conversation with Cyanide_Tiger, who was very eager to offer some suggestions ) I decided to get my first vape starter kit. I went with the Kanger mini Protank 2.

I received it in the mail yesterday. Here's what I have to say.

The instructions that came with it were totally useless, especially to a noob like me. Thank god for youtube and their many instructional videos. If not for that I probably would have tossed this thing out my window in frustration.

So I finally got it together and had my first vaping experience. I have to say that as a heavy smoker, I was pretty impressed with it. The throat hit was RIGHT on. Also produced a real nice puff of "smoke" equal to if not better than a real Marlboro. Since I am a heavy smoker I went with a tobacco flavored e-juice with high nicotine. That met my satisfaction as well as I experienced the same "calming feeling" I get from a real cig and I need a nicotine "fix". Only thing here I feel I will have to get used to is that a real cig burns down and I know when to put it out. Kind of hard to know when to stop puffing on my Kanger as I can do it till the juice runs out or the battery dies. 

Another thing I noticed is that my nicotine craving comes back quicker with the Kanger and I find myself reaching to puff it more frequently than I would light up another smoke. No big deal though as at least I'm NOT polluting my lungs and can vape all I want with no ill affects. But overall, I just want to say that so far it's been 24 hours and I have NOT had a real cigarette. For ME, that's a miracle. Furthermore when I'm puffing the Kanger I AM satisfied and don't find myself wishing I HAD a real cigarette. I'm glad I decided to give this a shot. I honestly feel that I may never need to smoke a real cigarette again. I may WANT to from time to time, but it feels so good to feel that I will never NEED to again.

SO one question to ex smokers who now vape insted. Tobacco flavor. I know it may be hard to find a juice that is an exact match to the flavor of a real cig because obviously a real cig has a BURNING flavor ( because it burns ) and there is no burning with an e-cig. But does anybody know of a good tobacco e-juice that comes as close as possible to the taste of a burning cigarette? ( no menthol please ).


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## WolfsFang (Dec 20, 2013)

Arianna Dragoness said:


> Ok, I've been a two pack a day Marlboro smoker for the past 20 years. ( yeah, I know. I'm lucky to be alive with no lung problems. Please hold comments  )
> 
> Sooooo... after reading this thread about the wonders of vaping I decided to give it an honest try. ( previously I HAVE tried a few e-cigs like blue, but in my opinion they were crap which gave me NO satisfaction at all. ) So after a PM conversation with Cyanide_Tiger, who was very eager to offer some suggestions ) I decided to get my first vape starter kit. I went with the Kanger mini Protank 2.
> 
> ...


This is just flavoring so i believe you can add this to any flavor you have in your tank.
http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/product&path=79_96&product_id=211


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 20, 2013)

Arianna Dragoness said:


> Ok, I've been a two pack a day Marlboro smoker for the past 20 years. ( yeah, I know. I'm lucky to be alive with no lung problems. Please hold comments  )
> 
> Sooooo... after reading this thread about the wonders of vaping I decided to give it an honest try. ( previously I HAVE tried a few e-cigs like blue, but in my opinion they were crap which gave me NO satisfaction at all. ) So after a PM conversation with Cyanide_Tiger, who was very eager to offer some suggestions ) I decided to get my first vape starter kit. I went with the Kanger mini Protank 2.
> 
> ...



I honestly can't tell you how good it makes me feel to see that I've converted another person to vaping. You've got a great journey ahead of you with all the gear and juices out there to check out, and a new community full of really cool people and supportive that you can relate to as well!

I'm not big on tobacco flavors myself, even though I did convert from tobacco cigarettes as well. The best recommendation I can give is to perhaps poke around a few different vendors, getting some various tobacco flavors in small bottles(~6ml), and play with the PG/VG ratio on them with the vendors that will let you. More PG will also offer a bit more harsh of a throat hit. I'd try going to 60/40, but if that isn't doing it for you, 70/30 or 80/20 is something to try as well. 

I haven't bothered checking out their site, mainly because it's a B&M shop local to me so I just go down there if I need something, but you can also contact the guys at createacig.com and ask for some custom flavors(which won't be any more expensive than their normally offered ones). They do a really good job of making flavors to specification.


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## dialup (Dec 20, 2013)

Ugh, I probably need one of those things since I started smoking not just socially recently due to some stresses in my life. One pack lasts me about 1 week, unless I'm really stressed out then it's a couple of days, but my teeth are extremely sensitive and I'm noticing more staining than usual and I really don't want that.


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## Arianna Dragoness (Dec 21, 2013)

dialup said:


> Ugh, I probably need one of those things since I started smoking not just socially recently due to some stresses in my life. One pack lasts me about 1 week, unless I'm really stressed out then it's a couple of days, but my teeth are extremely sensitive and I'm noticing more staining than usual and I really don't want that.



Get a vape mod now. Stop the cigs before it's too late. TRUST me. That's how I started. First a pack lasts a week... then a few days... then a day...then a few HOURS. And nicotine is like CRACK. Once that gets into your system Your cravings will grow and grow. And when you get hooked on cigs, when you get that crave you will stress out like you can't imagine. As a 20 year smoker, I know I sound like a hypocrite in telling you not to smoke. I tried so many times to quit and failed. So far vaping seems to be working and it's my last hope of quitting.


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## TheMetalVelocity (Dec 21, 2013)

Bloomberg is a retarded fascist douche once again http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...add-e-cigarettes-to-citywide-smoking-ban.html


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## Vaelarsa (Dec 21, 2013)

You guys are weird.
I smoke maybe like 2 - 4 cigs a month.
Maybe.
If that.


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## Daryx (Dec 21, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> You guys are weird.
> I smoke maybe like 2 - 4 cigs a month.
> Maybe.
> If that.


You don't inhale, do you?


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## Rinz (Dec 21, 2013)

Honestly, as an ex-smoker, I've considered getting ecigs with 0 nicotine, because I frequently get that urge to have a smoke, but the introductory costs are incredibly off-putting (especially considering that unlike a smoker converting, I'm saving nothing by making the switchover)


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 24, 2013)

Rinz said:


> Honestly, as an ex-smoker, I've considered getting ecigs with 0 nicotine, because I frequently get that urge to have a smoke, but the introductory costs are incredibly off-putting (especially considering that unlike a smoker converting, I'm saving nothing by making the switchover)



I'd imagine that they'd work great as a placebo. Or if you're still getting cravings, you can start getting juice with nicotine in it and slowly wean yourself back down to 0mg. 

As I've done for a few other people, I can shoot you a PM with some basic information and recommendations, if you'd like. It very well can be very expensive to get into(especially if you get sucked in by the wrong vendors), but many starter kits are more affordable than you may think - there are some decent quality ones for as low as $15(USD) if you know where to look.


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## Arianna Dragoness (Dec 26, 2013)

TheMetalVelocity said:


> Bloomberg is a retarded fascist douche once again http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...add-e-cigarettes-to-citywide-smoking-ban.html



Bloomberg can kiss my ass. All I know is I bought a Kanger mini protank 2 a week ago today and I have not touched a real cigarette since. I don't even miss them and as a former 2 pack a day smoker for 20 years, that's a miracle. I don't wake up in the morning hacking my lungs out, and my tongue is going back to a normal fleshy color instead of a brown stain. I can TASTE all my food again, and I've been happily complimented that I no longer taste like a dirty ash tray when kissing. NOT to mention all the money I'm now saving since Mayor douche bag managed to get an obnoxious tax making a pack of smokes cost between $11.00 and $13.50 for a pack. Screw him. I'm gonna huff this thing wherever I want and as much as I want. And I hope I get arrested so I can start a public outcry him. Wish me luck.


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## Mayfurr (Dec 26, 2013)

Arianna Dragoness said:


> NOT to mention all the money I'm now saving since Mayor douche bag managed to get an obnoxious tax making a pack of smokes cost between $11.00 and $13.50 for a pack.



That's exactly WHY Mayor "douche bag" - and every other Western government that I can think of - put high taxes on smokes: to give people like you another incentive to quit smoking cigarettes that are a frickin' health hazard.

Hardly a "douche bag" in that respect.


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## Arianna Dragoness (Dec 26, 2013)

Mayfurr said:


> That's exactly WHY Mayor "douche bag" - and every other Western government that I can think of - put high taxes on smokes: to give people like you another incentive to quit smoking cigarettes that are a frickin' health hazard.
> 
> Hardly a "douche bag" in that respect.



Exactly my point. And NOW that I found a clean, healthy, and NON offensive alternative to cigarettes he wants to make it just as much of a hassle. He has a problem with cigarettes ( ok, understandable. I ACTUALLY agree with that ), he has a problem with NON diet soda, ( Wants to put a tax on NON diet soda ) he has a problem with what SIZE soda you can buy  ( No fountan sodas more than 16 oz ). I can't help but notice that the ONLY thing it seems he hasn't put a hassle on is booze. PROBABLY because HE, HIMSELF enjoys a good stiff drink once in a while. HE is on a mission to stamp out ONLY things HE doesn't personally like.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 27, 2013)

Arianna Dragoness said:


> Bloomberg can kiss my ass. All I know is I bought a Kanger mini protank 2 a week ago today and I have not touched a real cigarette since. I don't even miss them and as a former 2 pack a day smoker for 20 years, that's a miracle. I don't wake up in the morning hacking my lungs out, and my tongue is going back to a normal fleshy color instead of a brown stain. I can TASTE all my food again, and I've been happily complimented that I no longer taste like a dirty ash tray when kissing. NOT to mention all the money I'm now saving since Mayor douche bag managed to get an obnoxious tax making a pack of smokes cost between $11.00 and $13.50 for a pack. Screw him. I'm gonna huff this thing wherever I want and as much as I want. And I hope I get arrested so I can start a public outcry him. Wish me luck.



Unfortunately, there's more opposition to e-cigs than I ever thought there would be out there. It seems like every week or two, you'll see some scare article pop up(which doesn't cite any sources) and people buy into it. A few years ago, there was court case trying to get e-cigs ruled as medical devices, but we had to settle for classifying them as tobacco products, despite tobacco being used in any stage of production or consumption. That label alone automatically not only lets the government legally treat them in the same manner as all other tobacco(cigarettes, chewing tobacco, etc), but also carries the same negative connotations that make people that are too lazy to do any research automatically associate e-cigs with all the nastiness that comes with tobacco cigarettes, and the combination of these factors is what makes these scare articles something we actually need to contend against.

I am happy to see the kit I recommended to you is working, though! If you feel like you're going to stay with it for a while, you may want to consider upgrading your tank to a full size Protank 2. It uses the same atomizer heads that your Protank 2 mini takes, but has more juice capacity; don't spend more than $20 on it, though, average retail is $15-20 online(sometimes cheaper), ~$25 in B&M stores. You also may want to consider looking into upgrading your battery as well - I have an iTaste MVP v2 and I fucking love it. It lasts me for about 3-4 days before needing a charge, I can vape on it while it's charging, the port is a micro USB(so you can use a cell phone charger on it), and it has built in protection against overcharging so you can plug it in before you sleep and don't have to worry about fucking it up. It usually runs about $70 though. There are other really good mods and tanks out there too, these are just what I've had a really good experience with so far.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 27, 2013)

I just picked up this bad boy after my mvp took a shit.
http://imgur.com/whsfMRY
So far its lovely.


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 27, 2013)

d.batty said:


> I just picked up this bad boy after my mvp took a shit.
> http://imgur.com/whsfMRY
> So far its lovely.



Niiiiiiice. I've heard nothing but really good things about the VTR. It's got some good weight to it too. I just wish they'd make one in a finish that isn't such a damn fingerprint magnet.


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## Batty Krueger (Dec 27, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Niiiiiiice. I've heard nothing but really good things about the VTR. It's got some good weight to it too. I just wish they'd make one in a finish that isn't such a damn fingerprint magnet.


Hehehe, I know what you mean. I carry a soft cloth that i use for my glasses around and when the vtr gets to fingerprinty I wipe it down. Im planning on getting a trufiber wrap for it though for that very reason.

It takes rechargable 18650 batts, so instead of tossing a unit because the unreplaceable battery(like the mvp)it the batt shits you just get a new battery, which I have 6 of.


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## Arianna Dragoness (Dec 27, 2013)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> Unfortunately, there's more opposition to e-cigs than I ever thought there would be out there. It seems like every week or two, you'll see some scare article pop up(which doesn't cite any sources) and people buy into it. A few years ago, there was court case trying to get e-cigs ruled as medical devices, but we had to settle for classifying them as tobacco products, despite tobacco being used in any stage of production or consumption. That label alone automatically not only lets the government legally treat them in the same manner as all other tobacco(cigarettes, chewing tobacco, etc), but also carries the same negative connotations that make people that are too lazy to do any research automatically associate e-cigs with all the nastiness that comes with tobacco cigarettes, and the combination of these factors is what makes these scare articles something we actually need to contend against.
> 
> I am happy to see the kit I recommended to you is working, though! If you feel like you're going to stay with it for a while, you may want to consider upgrading your tank to a full size Protank 2. It uses the same atomizer heads that your Protank 2 mini takes, but has more juice capacity; don't spend more than $20 on it, though, average retail is $15-20 online(sometimes cheaper), ~$25 in B&M stores. You also may want to consider looking into upgrading your battery as well - I have an iTaste MVP v2 and I fucking love it. It lasts me for about 3-4 days before needing a charge, I can vape on it while it's charging, the port is a micro USB(so you can use a cell phone charger on it), and it has built in protection against overcharging so you can plug it in before you sleep and don't have to worry about fucking it up. It usually runs about $70 though. There are other really good mods and tanks out there too, these are just what I've had a really good experience with so far.



That's really ironic that you made this upgrade suggestion to me. I already upgraded before I read it. Not the protank device, but the battery. I actually looked at the iTaste v2 but didn't really care for the "box design" and saw that they have a newer version that has an elongated shape I prefer. So I got this one:

http://www.vapedojo.com/products/itaste-vv-v3-0-by-innokin  ( link is to show battery, not endorse the shop ). 

ordered it a day ago so I didn't receive it yet. But what do you think?


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## WolfsFang (Dec 27, 2013)

Ill just leave this here 

http://i.imgur.com/j80qcST.jpg


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## Cyanide_tiger (Dec 27, 2013)

Arianna Dragoness said:


> That's really ironic that you made this upgrade suggestion to me. I already upgraded before I read it. Not the protank device, but the battery. I actually looked at the iTaste v2 but didn't really care for the "box design" and saw that they have a newer version that has an elongated shape I prefer. So I got this one:
> 
> http://www.vapedojo.com/products/itaste-vv-v3-0-by-innokin  ( link is to show battery, not endorse the shop ).
> 
> ordered it a day ago so I didn't receive it yet. But what do you think?



I've only ever gotten to use the iTaste VV for juice sampling at a B&M local to me, but it's a pretty decent battery. Personally, I'm a fan of the digital display for adjusting the voltage and checking the remaining battery life. Honestly, it's hard to say anything particularly bad about anything that Innokin puts out, I've become a bit of a fan of their gear(not that they're flawless, but they haven't done anything to make me hate them or any of their products yet). Being only 800mAh, it won't last nearly as long as an MVP(which is 2600mAh), but it's still a damn good little battery. The buttons feel a little cheap(though I haven't heard of anyone complaining about them coming off or breaking) to me, and they stick out enough that if you just shove it in your pocket or a crowded purse, you should check the voltage before you take a hit from it afterwards. Other than that, not much I can really say on the negative side about it. 

For future reference, if you come across anything with the "Elago" brand on it, it's the exact same thing as Innokin - they're actually a subsidiary - and put out the same devices for cheaper prices. It's literally the exact same gear, just with a different label stamped on. 

If the size of the MVP is what's driving you away from it, it's actually a lot smaller than it looks in the pictures. It's roughly about as long as the iTaste VV you're getting, but about 2 1/2 to 3 times as wide. It fits really nicely in the hand, despite looking like it wouldn't.


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