# Fur Affinity/Furocity Joining Forces



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

Fur Affinity and Furocity are joining  forces! Our two communities are coming together and pooling our  resources to provide the largest, most in-depth online Furry community  on the internet!

    Along with additional coding  expertise, Furocity is bringing improved administrative structure and  coordination to Fur Affinity's vast wealth of users.

    Dragoneer (FA) and Daemonshyai  (Furocity) will share responsibilities of the sites as equals  (co-owners). We'll be working together to expand the community and offer  a long-term, structured plan to improve the sites, re-aligning our  responsibilities and improving end-user support.

    It's been a long time coming, but  together we feel we will be able to reinvigorate the Furry  communities and bring much needed improvement all around, allowing us to  grow and share in ways that were previously unimagined.

    We're sorry that we had to be so  secretive of things up until now; we've been in talks for over a year,  but we had to make sure that all sides were ready, willing, and able  before we announced anything to the public.  We know that many of you  have been asking for (and demanding) change -- it was quite difficult to  keep this under our respective hats!

    More details are coming soon regarding our announcement. Stay tuned!

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*There are currently no plans to physically merge the FurAffinity.net and Furocity.com sites, and the two will remain functioning independently of each other. User accounts and submissions on one site will not carry over to the other site, and rules for submissions will be unchanged.* Staff will be coming over and sharing resources, however.

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Thread has been locked, discussion continues at http://goo.gl/C6exL


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## Taralack (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I have no idea what Furocity is. Should I be happy or afraid, or both?


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## LizardKing (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

So what's actually changing that we'll notice? Are any sites merging? User bases coming together? Is one switching hosting? Just a sharing of talent but the sites remain separated? There's a lot of words but I don't understand what is actually happening.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



LizardKing said:


> So what's actually changing that we'll notice? Are any sites merging? User bases coming together? Is one switching hosting? Just a sharing of talent but the sites remain separated? There's a lot of words but I don't understand what is actually happening.


 We're still hammering out some of the finer details, but we will be sharing and posting them once we're 100% on how things are going to go.

In the mean time you'll be seeing new admins and staff coming on board, revised, improved rules and policies and more.


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## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Well this is quite the announcement.  I didn't expect to read this.  Not sure if I should be pleased or nervous, yet.  Thanks for letting us know, either way. _Please_ keep the info coming, as this is something that seems like it will affect everyone quite a bit. 

Actually, I'm interested in seeing how the merger will affect everyone, especially those with accounts on both sites (and even more curiously, those who are banned on one website and not the other).


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## gunnersquad (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

is this having an impact on the summer update? because we still haven't really heard much about that beyond the announcement and the screenshots


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



gunnersquad said:


> is this having an impact on the summer update? because we still haven't really heard much about that beyond the announcement and the screenshots


 We'll have some further news on that soonish. I don't have an ETA on that. We're getting some feedback/suggestions on the design to improve it.


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## thebeast76 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Not sure if want.


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## Kelpie (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Do not want.


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## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Very cool. I am also with Eske. I wonder how this will effect accounts/user names?


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## Honey King (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

There's a reason I joined FA and *not* Furocity.  Definitely do not want.


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Honey King said:


> There's a reason I joined FA and *not* Furocity.  Definitely do not want.


 I don't think it's going to turn FA into Furocity.

Dragoneer, are there going to be any rules dragged over from Furocity to here?


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## Thaily (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Furocity is a site that predates FA, lot of people have RP profiles there.

Not sure if want, for Furocity's sake.
I like their "no bestiality" rule.


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## Shikaro (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

however i do want! merging is always good as long as the relations remain calm.
i have to ask however!! if for example there are names in furocity that are already in FA, how will it be fixed? will you guys put an atherisk 
[*] on their names? thats what usually happens on MMO's at least


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> I don't think it's going to turn FA into Furocity.
> 
> Dragoneer, are there going to be any rules dragged over from Furocity to here?


 Some may, but for the most part the rules will stay the same. If you created it... you can post it. Human art will continue to be posted. Some things may be tightened down, some may be loosened, but some of those changes we had planned on our own reviewing how the community works over time.


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Some may, but for the most part the rules will stay the same. If you created it... you can post it. Human art will continue to be posted. Some things may be tightened down, some may be loosened, but some of those changes we had planned on our own reviewing how the community works over time.


 Alright, thanks.

Another question.
Are you guys just sending mods/admins over to each site? Is FA's upcoming UI going to be affected by this?


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## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Please tell me the "no cub-porn" rule stays.


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## Fauz (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

How about their no "bestiality" rule that would ban large portion of the artwork on FA, I assume this is being trashed...


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

This, is one big surprise to me, don't know if want or do not want, more leaning towards do not want >.>


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## Larry (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Honey King said:


> There's a reason I joined FA and *not* Furocity.  Definitely do not want.


 
What's wrong with Furocity? (Never heard of the site)


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Fauz said:


> How about their no "bestiality" rule that would ban large portion of the artwork on FA, I assume this is being trashed...


 I do hope you realize.... that... Furocity is a furry site, and I'm pretty sure they allow furry porn.

"No bestiality" [IIRC.. it's been a long while since I've been on Furocity] refers to human + feral animal.

And I, for one, welcome our new Furocity overlords.


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## Thaily (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Rhazafax said:


> Please tell me the "no cub-porn" rule stays.



Furocity never allowed cub porn.



larry said:


> What's wrong with Furocity? (Never heard of the site)



Some of the people (mostly roleplayers) are kinda dumb and so there's some art reposting as well.
But for the most part it's a fairly quiet site.


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## Kelpie (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Honestly I hate when websites merge, they're two different things and  should remain that way.  I think the question about usernames is a valid  one and it'd be nice if it got answered.  I don't think it's exactly  right at all for people to be able to have the same username as others  but maybe with a little asterisk or period or something to set them  apart so it'd be cool to get an answer on at LEAST what the thoughts are  about usernames.

Also when will this even happen?  We've been hearing about the UI  forever, so is that going to get pushed back or is all this crap already  being implemented into it?  And way to even hint or ask FA members  about it.  What if the overwhelming majourity of the website is against  this merge?  Then what.  Whoops?

Sigh.  Oh well.


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## Prisma_Lin (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Potential down times for the merge? More admins? More mods? what will the new userface look like? Is fender outta the job as the site mascot? or did he just gain a companion? 

Either way, here is to the new companionship of these fur communities being pulled together into one conglomeration. 


also new website name?


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I don't care for cub porn, or beastiality, is what sites like e621 exist for you know, if you want it that bad.

I just don't see why or how this is gonna affect FA or Furocity in any way, are you really planning on merging the both sites?


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## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Hmm...I don't know what Furocity is but...it seems there's quite the upset among users here. Sure you guys had to take to make sure it was ready to happen...but didn't either sides ever ask the USERS, that make up the site, if they wanted this or not? (Obviously not). You think you're creating the "largest, most in-depth online Furry community on the internet", but in all reality, you can't really do that. The community IS the furry community. You're making a HUGE site for furries, yes, but again it comes back to if the COMMUNITY wants that. You cannot physically or theorically enlarge the community because, again, the community refers to its entity as, both as a size and a communitication way, which you, the site admins and mods, did not. This is not a end-user move that's made with said end-user support.


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## Fenrari (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm really not sure how I feel about this merger... Though I doubt anything fundamental would happen that makes me detest FA to the point of resigning from the furry art world, at the same time I'll have to review Furocity's policies to see if they're of interest to me.


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## Erethzium (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

So basically these two sites are going to share admins/mods.

...maybe now my trouble tickets will get answered quicker than 2 months.


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## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Honestly I don't think they'll become "one" site, I just think the furocity staff is gonna be active on FA to help neer finally fix his security shit and get a staff that actually does things. If that is the case then i'm happy that this is happening, IF however the sites are gonna be turned into one site, then screw that.


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## Jaz (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I don't visit Furocity but I'm sure the merging of communities will help for the fandom. I'll be interested to know which rules will come and which will go.

I'm very much against cub porn and beastiality in these websites (go for e621 for that), not to mention other fetishes such as rape, so I hope to hear the changes.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

How will this affect mods on here as well as main site? Will there be more communication after the merger? I would hate to know there are new people but never get a chance to say hi or otherwise get to know them.


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Kelpie said:


> Honestly I hate when websites merge, they're two different things and  should remain that way.  I think the question about usernames is a valid  one and it'd be nice if it got answered.  I don't think it's exactly  right at all for people to be able to have the same username as others  but maybe with a little asterisk or period or something to set them  apart so it'd be cool to get an answer on at LEAST what the thoughts are  about usernames.



I don't understand what this username stuff is all about. If the users will be coming to FA, it would make sense for THEM to find a username that fits, correct? I'm gonna be pretty pissed if I have to change my username. It's quite an amazing name if I do say so myself.
I don't get the asterisk thing either. Asterisk for what? So you can tell two users with the same usernames apart? I think that would cause a bunch of trouble tbh, and extra coding to distinguish the two users.


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## fluffdance (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

"We know that many of you have been asking for (and demanding) change -- it was quite difficult to keep this under our respective hats!"

...But oh so easy to continue allowing the "administrative structure" to operate on the will of its individual counterparts rather than as a team, ignoring the ToS as posted, playing favorites, targeting users based on personal conflicts, lying to the "vast wealth of users," ignoring security issues, wasting donation money without considering alternatives, providing no traceable records of money spent, etc. etc. etc.  If the administration of FA cared about anything to do with the site other than a place to feel good about their blatant abuse of a position of power, it would not take a site merger to make changes, and if anyone is thinking that this merger will bring about changes, so long as the administration team continues to be the sum of its individual parts, then there will be no change; only a larger group of individuals acting on their own will with complete disregard to the community.

Also, what the hell is "Furocity?"


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## Kelpie (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> I don't understand what this username stuff is all about. If the users will be coming to FA, it would make sense for THEM to find a username that fits, correct? I'm gonna be pretty pissed if I have to change my username. It's quite an amazing name if I do say so myself.
> I don't get the asterisk thing either. Asterisk for what? So you can tell two users with the same usernames apart? I think that would cause a bunch of trouble tbh, and extra coding to distinguish the two users.



That's my point. I think adding in anything to set a name apart is retarded and shouldn't be done.  Since Dragoneer isn't being clear at all as to whether this is two sites merging into one or just some mods coming over to help him get things done, then we don't really know if it's going to bork usernames.  I would agree that they should make their own, new usernames, and be sol if it's already taken but who knows.


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## Kujiiro (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I've never heard of Furocity, and I like the setup FA already has, *but* I am definitely prepared for change.

The only question on my mind right now is; Will the two userbases merge, meaning we'll receive a very large influx in users?


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## Jaz (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

It's a merger. If I'm not mistaken, whether or not Furocity will be merging with FA is unknown at this time.

In either case - one database of users will be merged with the other, so usernames *will* have to be updated. The merging users will have to choose a new username, or have a prefix or suffix appended.


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Kelpie said:


> Also when will this even happen?  We've been hearing about the UI  forever, so is that going to get pushed back or is all this crap already  being implemented into it?  And way to even hint or ask FA members  about it.  What if the overwhelming majourity of the website is against  this merge?  Then what.  Whoops?
> 
> Sigh.  Oh well.


 
This, I think it would have been nice of Dragoneer if he wanted to keep his fanbase/userbase happy to at least ASK opinions on the whole thing, not just shove it in our faces, it comes with being a fair and judge administrator to a site. 

Hear me out though, I understand that a lot of people would troll and what not when asked but at least still ask, I know the 7/8 of us will still stay here on FA/Furocity and go about our stuff as normal, all I'm really wondering is what and how this would affect us in any way.


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## Jaz (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

The point about being fresh programmers to FA is a nice thought, I might add.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Are you guys just sending mods/admins over to each site? Is FA's upcoming UI going to be affected by this?


Several of their mods/admins may be coming over. I believe we have confirmation on two so far.

And the Summer Update will not be affected by this.



Rhazafax said:


> Please tell me the "no cub-porn" rule stays.


 Not changing.



Fauz said:


> How about their no "bestiality" rule that would ban large portion of the artwork on FA, I assume this is being trashed...


 We we have not discussed this policy at this time. Currently, art is still art, but RL discussion of bestiality is still banned.


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## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm assuming that the Forums will remain unchanged.

Anyway, serious question, do you think you will be sharing the site, or do you think it'll play out like FA consuming their staff, users, and resources, while still retaining it's name? Do you think that both site's staff will be able to get along alright? I know you've kept off of this point, but is there any sort of rough time estimate for this?

And there are worse sites you could have decided to merge with, so I'm fine with this.


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## Sciggles (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

People are going to be mad no matter what Neer tries to do with the site. *shrug* I am very excited for this though :3 I love Furocity, been posting off and on there since December 2009, doesn't get a lot of traffic but its much better than some other furry sites :|


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## darkr3x (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Does the co-ownership mean FA will have to follow UK law as well <.<?


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## Thaily (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> Do you think that both site's staff will be able to get along alright?



Quite frankly, if you volunteer for a position which requires you to act like an adult, you need to either do so or resign.
And I've found Furocity's staff to be quick to respond and capable.


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## Taasla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I am excited.  I really do like Furocity, and it was always a shame that the userbase was always so small.

C:  Are some of the nifty features from there going to be brought here?  Their commissions docket is pretty fantastic.


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Thaily said:


> Quite frankly, if you volunteer for a position which requires you to act like an adult, you need to either do so or resign.


 

Haha, I love that quote, that is so true


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## CaptainCool (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> In the mean time you'll be seeing new admins and staff coming on board, revised, *improved rules and policies and more.*


 
thank GOD. i also hope that they will be enfored in a more efficient way from then on.


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## fenrirs_child (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

brb, claiming my username on Furocity, just in case


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## Ta5tele55 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

What if a user was banned on one site but its still registered with the other?  Will they get a free pass or will they be banned either way?


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## Prisma_Lin (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

People are gonna cry about it no matter what happens. I'm actually lookin forward to this update to the site


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



darkr3x said:


> Does the co-ownership mean FA will have to follow UK law as well <.<?


 Negative. Daemonshyai and myself are both US citizens.


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Ta5tele55 said:


> What if a user was banned on one site but its still registered with the other?  Will they get a free pass or will they be banned either way?


 
This is what I'm wondering, and was just about to ask


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## ali (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

as a user of furocity for the sole purpose of keeping profiles and fanart of my characters, i have to say: please tell me the already existing things on furocity will not be wiped and have to be redone.

i have profiles, as well as my friends, and we would really appreciate to know that even if usernames would have to change (which is stupid, we were here first, and just because there's now a merge shouldn't force us to change anything like people may be claiming it'll happen) but i just want to be sure so i can at least prepare a backup?? <___> ty

aside from that worry, uh, i guess i don't really care. i agree that they're two separate things and shouldn't merge, but whatever helps fa prosper i guess, derp


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## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Sciggles said:


> People are going to be mad no matter what Neer tries to do with the site. *shrug* I am very excited for this though :3 I love Furocity, been posting off and on there since December 2009, doesn't get a lot of traffic but its much better than some other furry sites :|


 
Exactly, no matter WHAT happens, theres ALWAYS going to be someone out there who will complain! People just generally don't like change.


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## Vizza (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

..So who's name is going to stick? We're not going to have to say something silly like "Oh check out my furafficity page" right? .... Right? XD

I've never heard of Furocity before, but it's always good to merge two communities. My only question is if Ferocity is going to disappear and they tell their members to join FA, or vise versa? I'm curious to how this is planned out.


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## RTDragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I really don't understand this i never heard of furocity before? So what is the difference considering this sounds like a very huge announcement.


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## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm actually quite curious about how the 'username' issue will pan out. Any idea, 'Neer, or is that something to be discussed still?


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Ta5tele55 said:


> What if a user was banned on one site but its still registered with the other?  Will they get a free pass or will they be banned either way?


 Both sites will remain indepdent. Staffers will share resources, but as long as your account is in good standing on FA... I see no reason for that to change.


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## Kelpie (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

And I'm going to stop paying attention to this whole dumb thing since,  like usual, questions get skipped over instead of answering them, despite several people wondering.  Good luck with your shit FA.


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## insane_kangaroo (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Furocity has many of the basic features which should be in FA, and even a pay structure for artists wanting to use a commission. All these features, very easy to implement, are in Furocity. Is there a possibility of having the commission and pay queue features ported over from Furocity in to FA, possibly earning actual revenue from the site?

My only concern is the payment processor of Furocity. Who says someone won't pull what they did last year to FurAffinity. Will this "merger" put Furocity's payment processor at risk?


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Rhazafax said:


> I'm actually quite curious about how the 'username' issue will pan out. Any idea, 'Neer, or is that something to be discussed still?


 Both sites are going to stay open and separate. We won't be merging accounts.


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## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> This, I think it would have been nice of Dragoneer if he wanted to keep his fanbase/userbase happy to at least ASK opinions on the whole thing, not just shove it in our faces, it comes with being a fair and judge administrator to a site.
> 
> Hear me out though, I understand that a lot of people would troll and what not when asked but at least still ask, I know the 7/8 of us will still stay here on FA/Furocity and go about our stuff as normal, all I'm really wondering is what and how this would affect us in any way.


 
So you'd like the mostly uneducated* masses to weigh in on what can be called an important business decision?

No.

(*uneducated in this matter)


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Kelpie said:


> And I'm going to stop paying attention to this whole dumb thing since,  like usual, questions get skipped over instead of answering them, despite several people wondering.  Good luck with your shit FA.


 Dude, calm down.
There are around 1500 people viewing this thread and the number is growing. There are people commenting every minute. Dragoneer is not going to be able to read and reply to every single comment.


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Both sites will remain indepdent. Staffers will share resources, but as long as your account is in good standing on FA... I see no reason for that to change.


 
Whoop whoop!

than why call this a merge? This entire thread is going haywire cause of that word


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## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> So you'd like the mostly uneducated* masses to weigh in on what can be called an important business decision?
> 
> No.
> 
> (*uneducated in this matter)


 
I never said that, are you calling yourself uneducated? Sometimes you gotta hear the people's voice too.


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## dastiger (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm not sure I like this idea. I have nothing against either site, even with the problems that both admittedly have. I just have the apprehensive edge to this because of the failures the last few mergers became. Specifically Yiffy.tk...But yeah. Not sure if want.


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## Taasla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

They're merging staffers and resources.  I thought this was pretty obvious?  Nowhere did they say they were merging databases or anything.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I was going to ask what will happen to those members who paid for a Furocity account and how will that affect FA, but if the sites are not going through a physical merger then that is fine. 

It's a resource merger then, not so much a site merger. Basically utilizing staff and their resources than just simply merging different websites.


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## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Both sites are going to stay open and separate. We won't be merging accounts.


 
Signal boost. I think this might be a good thing to add to the original post.


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## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Taasla said:


> They're merging staffers and resources.  I thought this was pretty obvious?  Nowhere did they say they were merging databases or anything.


 Is what I said in my reply, people need to stop getting their panties all tangled up over nothing.


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## T-W (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

To be truthful, lets just the complaining and ask the users of the sites to take a mutual IP based vote. It seems the simplest way of doing things. As for the rules, I'd be vary upset if they changed at all. I'm up for the merge and new users, but I'd debate leaving the site if any more restrictions were placed. Art is sapost to be an expression of ones self, and unrestricted. I don't personally do bestiality, rape, or cub art. Yet everyone is allowed a voice and that is what we've fought for as a fandom since the beginning. Because is wasn't too long ago that we as furries were considered just as bad as such things. So no any rule change would likely make many true artist leave FA.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> I never said that, are you calling yourself uneducated? Sometimes you gotta hear the people's voice too.


 
The people's voice largely doesn't know about the workings of the site, and their opinions don't really mean squat.

They could easily vote down something which would help the site because of stupid reason like "I don't want FA to change".

If you're point is that this move was risky because a lot of people could have been upset by this and left FA, you're wrong. FA has a largely ingrained community which isn't going anywhere for a while.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> Whoop whoop!
> 
> than why call this a merge? This entire thread is going haywire cause of that word


 
I don't believe either side has ever gone through a merger, thus used the word incorrectly.

Reading Dragoneer's responses, what they're creating is a "co-op," like a farmers' co-op except for two web organizations.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> Is what I said in my reply, people need to stop getting their panties all tangled up over nothing.


 
but it's fun to get panties in a bunch


----------



## Taasla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> Is what I said in my reply, people need to stop getting their panties all tangled up over nothing.


 
We're talking about furries here.  It's kind of their specialty.

"What, we're merging sites?  I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS PLACE, BUT I AM ALREADY OUTRAGED!!"


----------



## Droseattack (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Toraneko said:


> I have no idea what Furocity is. Should I be happy or afraid, or both?



lol i was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Rhazafax said:


> Signal boost. I think this might be a good thing to add to the original post.


There has been one in the original post for some time now.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



> We we have not discussed this policy at this time. Currently, art is still art, but RL discussion of bestiality is still banned.


 So you've been in discussion about this for a YEAR and this didn't come up?

So long as this is just a staffing merger, fine, I don't think most people will care. So long as you don't start fucking with the rules, I'm all for this. Some actual clarification would be really helpful, though, instead of vague replies.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Hmm...I don't know what Furocity is but...it seems there's quite the upset among users here. Sure you guys had to take to make sure it was ready to happen...but didn't either sides ever ask the USERS, that make up the site, if they wanted this or not? (Obviously not). You think you're creating the "largest, most in-depth online Furry community on the internet", but in all reality, you can't really do that. The community IS the furry community. You're making a HUGE site for furries, yes, but again it comes back to if the COMMUNITY wants that. You cannot physically or theorically enlarge the community because, again, the community refers to its entity as, both as a size and a communitication way, which you, the site admins and mods, did not. This is not a end-user move that's made with said end-user support.


 
I've looked at the site a bit and for my own opinion, I honestly, aside from the dark look, do not like it. So again, this so called "end-user" support is not being taken account of by means of asking the community itself if it wants this. There's a REASON why some furries like this- they don't like the other site. That's why they're where they are. As much as the site is run like one, its not a complete dic(k)tatorship. The users make the sites and support it. Give us our right to choose.


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Both sites are going to stay open and separate. We won't be merging accounts.


 EDIT: nevermind! Just saw the updated original post.
Neer, if you could add that in the original message, perhaps this would avoid confusion/reduce the amount of questions?


----------



## Ta5tele55 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Does furocity have a mascot that Fender and Rednef can hug?


----------



## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I've looked at the site a bit and for my own opinion, I honestly, aside from the dark look, do not like it. So again, this so called "end-user" support is not being taken account of by means of asking the community itself if it wants this. There's a REASON why some furries like this- they don't like the other site. That's why they're where they are. As much as the site is run like one, its not a complete dic(k)tatorship. The users make the sites and support it. Give us our right to choose.


 
Calm down and read the OP again.  The sites are remaining independent.  

Also, why are you quoting yourself?



Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> Neer, if you could add that in the  original message, perhaps this would avoid confusion/reduce the amount  of questions?


 
It _is_ in the original message.


----------



## Syrae-Universe (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm not entirely a fan of Furocity, but many commissioners I've met (including Sable), has one. With this merge, it can be proven useful. Though, I hope I have an option to use only the Furaffinity part of the merging and not forced to use both.

Anyways, this is a good thing. I hope the merge is productive and useful for many people. C:

And yes, there will be a shitton of negative people and those who don't want it. Not everyone likes CHANGE.


----------



## Shikaro (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Both sites will remain indepdent. Staffers will share resources, but as long as your account is in good standing on FA... I see no reason for that to change.


 
this pretty much solves the username question.


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> Neer, if you could add that in the original message, perhaps this would avoid confusion/reduce the amount of questions?


 It has been there for some time now. You just didn't read the bottom of it.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I've looked at the site a bit and for my own opinion, I honestly, aside from the dark look, do not like it. So again, this so called "end-user" support is not being taken account of by means of asking the community itself if it wants this. There's a REASON why some furries like this- they don't like the other site. That's why they're where they are. As much as the site is run like one, its not a complete dic(k)tatorship. The users make the sites and support it. Give us our right to choose.


 
Thank you for that.


----------



## Deleted member 3615 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Will there be thousands upon thousands of new artwork/traffic because of this?


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> The people's voice largely doesn't know about the workings of the site, and their opinions don't really mean squat.
> 
> They could easily vote down something which would help the site because of stupid reason like "I don't want FA to change".
> 
> If you're point is that this move was risky because a lot of people could have been upset by this and left FA, you're wrong. FA has a largely ingrained community which isn't going anywhere for a while.



The people's voice sure does matter, sure it's Dragoneer's site but without his users he's nothing, everyone should be allowed to voice his opinion, certainly about something as big as this. People thought the two sites would become one, wich would be stupid since furocity is largely dead and horribly structured, ALOT of people would leave if this happened, contrary to what you think, the two sites becoming one would be a very, very bad move for furaffinity's sake.


----------



## Vizza (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Think of all the business budding artists would get. If I was good enough to open commissions, I'd be thrilled at the thought that theres gonna be a ton more people that might be interested in hiring me for work.


----------



## Taasla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Give us our right to choose.


 This isn't a democracy.  Last I checked FA is a privately owned site...


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> It has been there for some time now. You just didn't read the bottom of it.


 
I just saw. Thanks.


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

For what seems to be happening, "merger" is a bit misleading of a term to use, I'd think.
That said, I honestly have no clue what to expect, though from what's been said it just seems like the site will be running better in the near future, which is not a problem in the slightest.


----------



## Shikaro (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



DJ-Moogle said:


> Will there be thousands upon thousands of new artwork/traffic because of this?


not actually! if you read the posts above these current ones, both sites will remain independent meaning the artwork posted in furocity may not be posted on FA.. this totally depends on the users if they want to post it in both sites or not.


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



DJ-Moogle said:


> Will there be thousands upon thousands of new artwork/traffic because of this?



No, furocity is lifeless compared to FA's traffic, and new artwork? all the artwork that gets posted there is reposts of stuff that's already on FA.


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

You state the sites will be independant yet you also state that rules may change/are unknown at the moment. Why would sharing staffers have to affect either sides rules? This sounds like a temporary thing to help both sides then go back to normal for both, but hey what do I know.


----------



## reian (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

But a database could be considered a resource.  Thus the confusion and lack of clarity on the subject.  When you sat Site Merger it automatically describes includes the things that are used to create a site.  

This is not a website merge, it is merely a staff merge...Like one company owning two different sites/sections of the same thing, from what I can understand


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Eske said:


> Calm down and read the OP again.  The sites are remaining independent.
> 
> Also, why are you quoting yourself?



I have, and a merger is still a merger. It will affect something one way or another. I am just expressing my opinion as a user. And to point back to what I said before for reference.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Taasla said:


> This isn't a democracy.  Last I checked FA is a privately owned site...


 
Yes, but it's also a user-based supported site. Notice how it needs donations to run? I'm pretty sure Dragoneer wouldn't pay for this thing entirely himself year after year. It's a government. Without the people, it collapses.


----------



## Taasla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Yes, but it's also a user-based supported site. Notice how it needs donations to run? I'm pretty sure Dragoneer wouldn't pay for this thing entirely himself year after year. It's a government. Without the people, it collapses.


 
You do realize there were periods where he has paid for it all of his own?  I've donated before, but that doesn't make me feel I'm entitled to anything.

Edit:  And by this logic, then only donators should have a say.    And this donator fully supports the idea.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Taasla said:


> This isn't a democracy.  Last I checked FA is a privately owned site...


 
It is indeed, but the site still runs on users, you need to keep the users happy, last I know FA takes an insane amount of money to run on, doubtingly he would ever scrape up that much at the end of the year every year without donations.

Users not happy = leaving = boycotting = donations drop = FA gonna die sooner or later


----------



## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I have, and a merger is still a merger.  It will affect something one way or another. I am just expressing my  opinion as a user. And to point back to what I said before for  reference.



No company owner is expected to take a poll asking every last one of his  employees whether a merger would be a good idea or not -- let alone his customers.  You do not get  special rights of power and opinion when joining a website.  You're  free to express yourself however you like, but that doesn't mean anyone  has to listen.

Now out of sheer curiosity; I'd like to know why you find Furocity so horrifying?  Are there tangible reasons for your dislike, or is it simply another excuse to rage over this whole situation?


----------



## Cain (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Are the just the mainsites merging? Or will each site's forum merge together?  (Please no :c)


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> The people's voice sure does matter, sure it's Dragoneer's site but without his users he's nothing, everyone should be allowed to voice his opinion, certainly about something as big as this. People thought the two sites would become one, wich would be stupid since furocity is largely dead and horribly structured, ALOT of people would leave if this happened, contrary to what you think, the two sites becoming one would be a very, very bad move for furaffinity's sake.


 
1) Read what I said about an ingrained community. Look back at past "scandals" and see how that affected the userbase. It's a phenomenon in business where they can literally do whatever they want and still be successful. Even if 'Neer chose an option which most people didn't like, the userbase isn't going anywhere.

2) Businesses cannot function properly if it's customers are calling all the shots. They know what _they_ would like to see the company do from an outward perspective, but they don't understand how it affects things from an inward perspective. Let's say there was a branch of a chain store in your town. Everyone loves it. Now let's say that despite that, it isn't getting enough business to stay profitable and the company wants to close it down. By the customer's decision, the company would have to keep open this ailing branch. Bad for business.

3) Since it sounds like FA is _not_ adopting Furocity's community and structure, that's exactly what I'm talking about with the user's not having enough knowledge on the subject to make a decision. That assumption alone could get FA all riled up and stop what could easily be a very good step forward for FA. So, uhh, yea... thanks for proving my original point.


----------



## Foxenawolf (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Do Want DO WANT! I dont quite know what this will mean in the long run, but i HOPE one thing will come of it is designated chatrooms. Hopefully with the pooling of minds we might get something akin to (dare i say it) Deviantart's chat system. I was always sad to see that lacking and i think it would be a great idea to have chatrooms for multiple categories, one section for various roleplay chats, (for the roleplayers) One for plain old artist discussions maybe divided into subcategories, and one for Startup, intermediate, and advanced artists to interact with potential clients in real time and get more exposure based on skill level. 

of course this is just my 2 cents, i see how beautifully furocity's galleries are laid out as well and i can see only bright things.

*gets on knees* are chatrooms likely in the future Dragoneer? please please PLEEAAAASE? (OH HEY an app for us iphone and ipad users would be awesome too.... okay im pushing it, i'll shut up now) 

im so excited for the changes to those of you who fear change just think of the potential of how it will IMPROVE FA.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Ta5tele55 said:


> Does furocity have a mascot that Fender and Rednef can hug?


 Furocity's got a really cool robo-vixen mascot. I wonder if this will make a robo-Fender..

http://en.wikifur.com/w/images/3/3d/Furocity.png


----------



## Sciggles (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Yes, but it's also a user-based supported site. Notice how it needs donations to run? I'm pretty sure Dragoneer wouldn't pay for this thing entirely himself year after year. It's a government. Without the people, it collapses.



Have YOU donated lately? The only donations they take are mail in. The rest comes from adds and Neer's pocket >:|


----------



## Daemonshyai (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I suppose I really should throw my hat in the ring here, just to clear up as much as I possibly can.

First, the sites themselves are staying completely separate.  What we are doing is combining our respective resources.  FA will still be FA.  Furocity will still be Furocity.

FA is gaining a group of excellent administrators, which will bring fair, impartial, and timely moderation.  FA is also gaining a new programming staff, intent on finding and fixing problems, as well as working on a true update (read: recode) for FA, including many of the features that everyone has been clamoring for (journal favoriting, commission tracking, and more).

No one on FA or Furocity will have to change their usernames.  The only real change that users will most likely see (at least until the real coding begins) is an decreased turnaround time when they have problems.

Hopefully this will assuage a few of your fears.


----------



## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> It is indeed, but the site still runs on users, you need to keep the users happy, last I know FA takes an insane amount of money to run on, doubtingly he would ever scrape up that much at the end of the year every year without donations.
> 
> Users not happy = leaving = boycotting = donations drop = FA gonna die sooner or later


 

I sincerely  doubt this kind of thing will happen. Users are on FA because they like FA. And since the two sites are remaining independent, it's not an issue. In my humble opine, I think "what if"ing should be kept to a minimum for now. There's obviously a lot for the two Owners to discuss still.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Eske said:


> No company owner is expected to take a poll asking every last one of his  employees whether a merger would be a good idea or not.  You do not get  special rights of power and opinion when joining a website.  You're  free to express yourself however you like, but that doesn't mean anyone  has to listen.
> 
> Now out of sheer curiosity; I'd like to know why you find Furocity so horrifying?  Are there tangible reasons for your dislike, or is it simply another excuse to rage over this whole situation?


 
Gotta love being ganged up on for opinions..
Never said I demanded I be listened to (though that would be great, being a user, but one among thousands)

It's my, again, opinion, that I don't like the site. Great thing is, like you said, I don't have to listen


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> I suppose I really should throw my hat in the ring here, just to clear up as much as I possibly can.
> 
> First, the sites themselves are staying completely separate.  What we are doing is combining our respective resources.  FA will still be FA.  Furocity will still be Furocity.
> 
> ...



That's not called a merger, that's called a co-op... sharing resources (people, property)


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Rhazafax said:


> I sincerely  doubt this kind of thing will happen. Users are on FA because they like FA. And since the two sites are remaining independent, it's not an issue. In my humble opine, I think "what if"ing should be kept to a minimum for now. There's obviously a lot for the two Owners to discuss still.


 
Of course, I know their not going to merge, but for future reference, I'm just saying, I like that FA is going to get better with the staff of Furocity coming over.

All I'm wondering is why this took an entire year to agree upon....


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Sciggles said:


> Have YOU donated lately? The only donations they take are mail in. The rest comes from adds and Neer's pocket >:|


 
have you sucked up enough? I don't give a crap about your hurt ego because I said something RESPECTABLY SMART about your boyfriend. Get off you're high horse and stop reading my posts as attacking. But yea, I have AND noticed its ADS. Not entirely his pocket.


----------



## Vexor Shadewing (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm not sure whether or not I should be pissed or not,I mean,we were never asked if we wanted this,so,utter disregard for users of both sites,but,I'll agree this could be a positive change for both sites...Just so long as moderators and users aren't going to be confused by new rules.


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> 1) Read what I said about an ingrained community. Look back at past "scandals" and see how that affected the userbase. It's a phenomenon in business where they can literally do whatever they want and still be successful. Even if 'Neer chose an option which most people didn't like, the userbase isn't going anywhere.
> 
> 2) Businesses cannot function properly if it's customers are calling all the shots. They know what _they_ would like to see the company do from an outward perspective, but they don't understand how it affects things from an inward perspective. Let's say there was a branch of a chain store in your town. Everyone loves it. Now let's say that despite that, it isn't getting enough business to stay profitable and the company wants to close it down. By the customer's decision, the company would have to keep open this ailing branch. Bad for business.
> 
> 3) Since it sounds like FA is _not_ adopting Furocity's community and structure, that's exactly what I'm talking about with the user's not having enough knowledge on the subject to make a decision. That assumption alone could get FA all riled up and stop what could easily be a very good step forward for FA. So, uhh, yea... thanks for proving my original point.


 
1) Trust me, people would leave if something like this would happen.

2) FA isn't a business and neer relies on donations, without users there's no donations, without donations there's no FA

3) I know it's not merging, i'm just saying if it "were" merging, and no, again, this would be a very bad choice for FA, not a "good step forward".


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Agreed, 'merger' is the incorrect term for this. It is a coop in which resources are shared. You know what I have yet to see? What furocity gaining from this.


----------



## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> You know what I have yet to see? What furocity gaining from this.


 
Traffic.


----------



## VanillaDoggo (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

in during shitstorm of manchildren who don't know how to accept change and adjust.


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> Agreed, 'merger' is the incorrect term for this. It is a coop in which resources are shared. You know what I have yet to see? What furocity gaining from this.


 free publicity, duh.


----------



## wolfbeast (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

If this means that FA will actually get the website/web programming expertise I've seen over on Furocity, then it's definitely a good thing.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> have you sucked up enough? I don't give a crap about your hurt ego because I said something RESPECTABLY SMART about your boyfriend. Get off you're high horse and stop reading my posts as attacking. But yea, I have AND noticed its ADS. Not entirely his pocket.


 
1) Keep it civil.

2) She is right, The Donations from FA are sent by mail. And since not a lot of users donate to FA it, most comes out of the head Admin's pocket. With Ads, it is still not enough to cover the cost of the necessities that keep the site afloat.


So chill.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> I suppose I really should throw my hat in the ring here, just to clear up as much as I possibly can.
> 
> First, the sites themselves are staying completely separate.  What we are doing is combining our respective resources.  FA will still be FA.  Furocity will still be Furocity.
> 
> ...


 Only thing I haven't had answered: are rules carrying over? Yes or no. If yes, what ones?


----------



## Zaelfoxxie (Jul 14, 2011)

*Do Not Want!*

I love how this is the first news of this and that there was no voting or asking of anykind 


This just sounds like a Dying site (Furocity) is just trying to hang on by joing forces with a much more successful site.

Cant wait for the Flood of pissed off people to flood my journal box 
thank god for a nuke button!

IMO the only thing this will bring to the table is more rules and more personal conflict between admins and more down time for the website!


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



fluffdance said:


> "We know that many of you have been asking for (and demanding) change -- it was quite difficult to keep this under our respective hats!"
> 
> ...But oh so easy to continue allowing the "administrative structure" to operate on the will of its individual counterparts rather than as a team, ignoring the ToS as posted, playing favorites, targeting users based on personal conflicts, lying to the "vast wealth of users," ignoring security issues, wasting donation money without considering alternatives, providing no traceable records of money spent, etc. etc. etc.  If the administration of FA cared about anything to do with the site other than a place to feel good about their blatant abuse of a position of power, it would not take a site merger to make changes, and if anyone is thinking that this merger will bring about changes, so long as the administration team continues to be the sum of its individual parts, then there will be no change; only a larger group of individuals acting on their own will with complete disregard to the community.
> 
> Also, what the hell is "Furocity?"



i so agree with you on that...its just crazy how that is though when you see others breaking the rules doing that all the time but when you try to do it like say post a sl mod you did on sl, then you got trolls on your rear and an admin "asking" you to remove it because you didn't make the avatar though just the mod for it.... >.> fun fun fun


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



wolfbeast said:


> If this means that FA will actually get the website/web programming expertise I've seen over on Furocity, then it's definitely a good thing.



That's funny because they got no programming expertise, they got all their stuff coded by a company, none of what they have is coded by their staff.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> 1) Keep it civil.
> 
> 2) She is right, The Donations from FA are sent by mail. And since not a lot of users donate to FA it, most comes out of the head Admin's pocket. Even with Ads, it is still not enough.
> 
> ...



I am chill, it's everybody else flipping on people like me for giving their opinions like they are. Yea, I know its by mail, it wasn't before though. I don't need to be attacked by a bunch of raging furries posting their opinions attcking me for posting mine. You guys are acting up as much as I am.


----------



## darkr3x (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Negative. Daemonshyai and myself are both US citizens.


 Oh. I thought Furocity was UK based >.<


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> 1) Trust me, people would leave if something like this would happen.



Past events, userbase trends, and most of the posts in this thread indicate otherwise.



> 2) FA isn't a business and neer relies on donations, without users there's no donations, without donations there's no FA



FA _is_ a business. It just doesn't work for profit. The point about donations is moot, read the point above this.



> 3) I know it's not merging, i'm just saying if it "were" merging, and no, again, this would be a very bad choice for FA, not a "good step forward".


 
But it's not merging, why are you bringing a hypothetical into a thread about a real event? It's stupid.

And I sincerely hope you're not saying that a more experienced coding team and a better-run administration are "not a good step forward".


----------



## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Gotta love being ganged up on for  opinions..
> Never said I demanded I be listened to (though that would  be great, being a user, but one among thousands)
> 
> It's my, again,  opinion, that I don't like the site. Great thing is, like you said, I  don't have to listen





> Give us our right to choose.



No one is ganging up on you for having an opinion.  Don't be so dramatic, please.

I don't believe I said that you were demanding anything, I said you thought you had a right to make decisions on behalf of FA (see above quote).  Which I disagreed with.

You're free to have an opinion based on absolutely nothing at all, but that isn't very helpful in this situation.  I just wanted to know your reasoning behind hating something you checked out five minutes ago, that is all.


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Do Not Want!*



Zaelfoxxie said:


> I love how this is the first news of this and that there was no voting or asking of anykind
> 
> 
> This just sounds like a Dying site (Furocity) is just trying to hang on by joing forces with a much more successful site.
> ...



You're an idiot, learn to read a thread.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I am chill, it's everybody else flipping on people like me for giving their opinions like they are. Yea, I know its by mail, it wasn't before though. I don't need to be attacked by a bunch of raging furries posting their opinions attcking me for posting mine. You guys are acting up as much as I am.


 
You are not being attacked. people are stating their opinions. If you do not like their opinions, then ignore their posts and move on. There is no need to flip a lid (or table) because a lot of people are replying to your post. Not everyone will agree, and people will state why they do not.


----------



## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> I suppose I really should throw my hat in the ring here, just to clear up as much as I possibly can.
> 
> First, the sites themselves are staying completely separate.  What we are doing is combining our respective resources.  FA will still be FA.  Furocity will still be Furocity.
> 
> ...




Thank you very much for the clarification.  This leads me to one question, however: policy changes have been hinted at, earlier in the thread.  If this is pretty much strictly a staff merging, why would that be necessary?


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> And I sincerely hope you're not saying that a more experienced coding team and a better-run administration are "not a good step forward".



....They don't have a better experienced coding team.....nothing they have is coded by them.


----------



## Sciggles (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> have you sucked up enough? I don't give a crap about your hurt ego because I said something RESPECTABLY SMART about your boyfriend. Get off you're high horse and stop reading my posts as attacking. But yea, I have AND noticed its ADS. Not entirely his pocket.



My ego isn't hurt. I just see what goes into FA and he has paid a lot out of his own pocket, and I was saying this long before we were a couple. I'm saying he hasn't gotten any/a lot of donations lately


----------



## Zercompf-Sanika (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

So, basically, this isn't a merger at all.
You're just going to be sharing mods.

Way to use such a serious a buzzword incorrectly.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Sciggles said:


> My ego isn't hurt. I just see what goes into FA and he has paid a lot out of his own pocket, and I was saying this long before we were a couple. I'm saying he hasn't gotten any/a lot of donations lately



if people got to sit behind the scenes to see how it is run, then people would change their tune. For now, people will complain that the site is not running by "their standards". :V


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> You know what I have yet to see? What furocity gaining from this.


 A better question would be what is the furry community gaining from this.

Daemonshyai's a solid guy, and I'd vouch for him in a heartbeat. He's worked with us on FA United pretty much since the convention began, and we've been working together for years no. That's back in 2007. The merger will benefit the community, giving more resources and tools and more.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Eske said:


> No one is ganging up on you for having an opinion.  Don't be so dramatic, please.
> 
> I don't believe I said that you were demanding anything, I said you thought you had a right to make decisions on behalf of FA (see above quote).  Which I disagreed with.
> 
> You're free to have an opinion based on absolutely nothing at all, but that isn't very helpful in this situation.  I just wanted to know your reasoning behind hating something you checked out five minutes ago, that is all.


 
Dramatic? That's all we can do, honestly. It's furries.

Then disagree, don't belittle and say I don't have a right for a voice, weather it's listened to or not. It's like watching a video of a dog being beaten, you say what you want to extert your opinion even though you know it probably won't do a thing.

It doesn't take long to explore a typical image/text posting website.


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> A better question would be what is the furry community gaining form this.
> 
> Daemonshyai's a solid guy, and I'd vouch for him in a heartbeat. He's worked with us on FA United pretty much since the convention began, and we've been working together for years no. That's back in 2007. The merger will benefit the community, giving more resources and tools and more.


 So are you talking about FA's community or Furocity's? Since the "furry community" can't be gaining anything from this if they're not a member on either of the sites.


----------



## marai1234 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Well, apparently some people don't like this.

I've never been to Furocity before today, let alone heard of it. And, judging form past posts of transfering the 'no-beastiality' rule, I thought FA already had that.


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Well that is good to hear 'neer.


----------



## thedarkwolfzearoth (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Plain and simple if the "no bestiality" rule carries over it's going to KILL any artists that draw feral characters or anthro on feral stuff.  In the name of God PLEASE don't carry over that rule...


----------



## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Dramatic? That's all we can do, honestly. It's furries.


 
Break free of the stereotype pressed upon you.


----------



## T-W (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Again I state, everyone should be cool with this. Just DON'T Change the rules. Art is Art, and shouldn't be censored.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



thedarkwolfzearoth said:


> Plain and simple if the "no bestiality" rule carries over it's going to KILL any artists that draw feral characters or anthro on feral stuff.  In the name of God PLEASE don't carry over that rule...


 
.....
Wat?


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Sciggles said:


> My ego isn't hurt. I just see what goes into FA and he has paid a lot out of his own pocket, and I was saying this long before we were a couple. I'm saying he hasn't gotten any/a lot of donations lately


 
I wouldn't doubt that. But what I'm saying is it's still user based, one way or another. Like any other site, once in a while a donation notice is put up and people put out. I respect him for helping out of his own pocket, but it's STILL user based and they need to be included on decisions that affect them sitewide.


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> That's funny because they got no programming expertise, they got all their stuff coded by a company, none of what they have is coded by their staff.


 ...would you mind sharing where you got this information from?


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I haven't read any part of this thread yet, I just wanted to let you know that I shit myself upon reading the thread title. Okay.


----------



## Zercompf-Sanika (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> A better question would be what is the furry community gaining form this.
> 
> Daemonshyai's a solid guy, and I'd vouch for him in a heartbeat. He's worked with us on FA United pretty much since the convention began, and we've been working together for years no. That's back in 2007. The merger will benefit the community, giving more resources and tools and more.


BOY you sure can deflect a question.

Seriously though. What's Furocity getting out of this?
(Also draken can you duke this out somewhere else, you're shitting up the thread thx)


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



T-W said:


> Again I state, everyone should be cool with this. Just DON'T Change the rules. Art is Art, and shouldn't be censored.



True on that for sure! but then again you still get trolls that try to claim some things are not art....


----------



## Stitches74 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

*RE: So is it a merge or not?* 
Sent By: dragoneer to Stitches74 On: July 14th, 2011 10:32 

                We've got a HUGE announcement today (one of the biggest in FA history!). Fur Affinity and Furocity are merging!



Quote Originally Posted by Dragoneer View Post
Both sites will remain indepdent. Staffers will share resources, but as long as your account is in good standing on FA... I see no reason for that to change.



So, um how is that a merge?

merge/mÉ™rj/Verb
1. Combine or cause to combine to form a single entity, esp. a commercial organization.
*Both. It's going to start as a co-op, but will change later.*


----------



## dopy (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Cyril Daroun said:


> ...would you mind sharing where you got this information from?


 
http://www.psumonix.com/ right here.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> ....They don't have a better experienced coding team.....nothing they have is coded by them.



First off, classy. Deflect my real points by focusing on an insignificant one.

Second,



Daemonshyai said:


> FA is also gaining a new programming staff, intent on finding and fixing problems, as well as working on a true update (read: recode) for FA, including many of the features that everyone has been clamoring for (journal favoriting, commission tracking, and more).


 
I'm more inclined to believe this chap over you. And from what I've been reading on their site, even if they didn't design it, they still have to retain programming staff to maintain it.


----------



## ANGRY OFFENSIVE PERSON (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zercompf-Sanika said:


> BOY you sure can deflect a question.
> 
> Seriously though. What's Furocity getting out of this?
> (Also draken can you duke this out somewhere else, you're shitting up the thread thx)


I would assume we'll figure out a way to give Furocity more coverage. The site has been getting quieter for the past year, after all the attention from the new launch died down.


----------



## T-W (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



TsukinoOokami26 said:


> True on that for sure! but then again you still get trolls that try to claim some things are not art....


 
Yes and it is people whom try to censor art on a site based on ART that should be censored.


----------



## Rhazafax (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I wouldn't doubt that. But what I'm saying is it's still user based, one way or another. Like any other site, once in a while a donation notice is put up and people put out. I respect him for helping out of his own pocket, but it's STILL user based and they need to be included on decisions that affect them sitewide.


 
Last I checked, users have never been consulted for administrator and moderator choosing. That "right" belongs to the existing admins and mods, and rightfully so. As admins and mods, they know what they need and what they're looking for.

As for pooling resources, awesome. I think with new ideas and fresh minds, FA and Furocity might actually both come up with great things.


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> http://www.psumonix.com/ right here.


 oh goody. So it's just that FA is getting more staff. Eh, that's still not a bad thing, but.


----------



## Skoon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I must fail as a furry since I have literally never heard of Furocity.

Anything to restore my faith in the staff of FA is welcome in my book. As lately, to be honest, I've been disappointed. And I used to defend the staff from anybody who spoke ill. 

So, I'm interested. With a grain of salt, but very interested.


----------



## Daemonshyai (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Eske said:


> Thank you very much for the clarification.  This leads me to one question, however: policy changes have been hinted at, earlier in the thread.  If this is pretty much strictly a staff merging, why would that be necessary?


 
We are actually still discussing what changes we will be making.  Most likely, not much will change, rule-wise.  For a while now, we've been seeing FA's rules coming closer and closer to Furocity's rules as it is, so there is little reason to get worried.  No, we're not banning furry porn (as was previously hypothesized  ).


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> Only thing I haven't had answered: are rules carrying over? Yes or no. If yes, what ones?


 It was answered. Go look a few pages back
Basically, he said that they're still discussing some rules and that one rule which is sticking is "no under 18 porn"



thedarkwolfzearoth said:


> Plain and simple if the "no bestiality" rule carries over it's going to KILL any artists that draw feral characters or anthro on feral stuff.  In the name of God PLEASE don't carry over that rule...


 ......
"no bestiality" means no human + nonanthro/feral porn. Look at the AUP of Furocity.



Ben said:


> I haven't read any part of this thread yet, I just wanted to let you know that I shit myself upon reading the thread title. Okay.


 I knew you'd shit your pants. As soon as I read "Furocity" I thought
"Ben will shit his pants"



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I love you too, but sorry I'm apparently getting more attention than your trolling


 He isn't trolling. Please at least TRY to learn what the word "trolling/troll" means before you start flinging haphazardly it at people like a chimp throwing it's shit in a zoo


----------



## Fauz (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



> *Unacceptable Content*
> 
> Any content which falls within the following guidelines may not be submitted to Furocity:
> 
> ...


Doesn't say anything about humans, and even if it did that is still something currently allowed on FA.


----------



## Kayla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Hm...Don't know if want, but we'll see.


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



T-W said:


> Yes and it is people whom try to censor art on a site based on ART that should be censored.



ok its sort of upsetting that when people who do mods for avatars on sl get bitched out by trolls saying well if you didnt create the avatar then you cant post it period. Which i can understand the sl pictures to a point but when someone makes a mod for one then how does one post pics for the mod? because if you post it like how textures are done then anyone can steal it from ya on the site but if you put it on a avatar you didnt create and try to post trolls are everywhere on your rear!


----------



## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> We are actually still discussing what changes we will be making.  Most likely, not much will change, rule-wise.  For a while now, we've been seeing FA's rules coming closer and closer to Furocity's rules as it is, so there is little reason to get worried.  No, we're not banning furry porn (as was previously hypothesized  ).


 
No, no, no, haha, I wasn't worried at all.    I was just curious; a merger of the sort described in the OP doesn't seem like it would need to touch policies or rules at all.  However, now I'm getting the sense that it might be a full merger some day down the line?  If so, that would explain the need to bring FA's policies up to Furocity's standards.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Fauz said:


> doesn't say anything about humans


 
loop hole? LOOP HOLE?!

Sorry I laughed too hard


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Rhazafax said:


> Last I checked, users have never been consulted for administrator and moderator choosing. That "right" belongs to the existing admins and mods, and rightfully so. As admins and mods, they know what they need and what they're looking for.
> 
> As for pooling resources, awesome. I think with new ideas and fresh minds, FA and Furocity might actually both come up with great things.


 
I'm not saying anything about mods being chosen, no no. That's fine. But when anything that affects the site directly, non-personel-ly, we should still hear SOMETHING about it, even if indirectly like "what would you guys think of more resources? *innocent whistle*". Yea I get we have " no rights" but what we're asking for isn't much, is it?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Fauz said:


> Doesn't say anything about humans, and even if it did that is still something currently allowed on FA.


 I'm pretty damn sure it was human + nonanthro when I was on there.


----------



## Daemonshyai (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> I'm more inclined to believe this chap over you. And from what I've been reading on their site, even if they didn't design it, they still have to retain programming staff to maintain it.


 
Just an FYI, because this is hilarious: we created, designed, and coded all of Furocity.  From the ground up.


----------



## T-W (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



TsukinoOokami26 said:


> ok its sort of upsetting that when people who do mods for avatars on sl get bitched out by trolls saying well if you didnt create the avatar then you cant post it period. Which i can understand the sl pictures to a point but when someone makes a mod for one then how does one post pics for the mod? because if you post it like how textures are done then anyone can steal it from ya on the site but if you put it on a avatar you didnt create and try to post trolls are everywhere on your rear!


I've never play'd SL so I can't really say on that factor. But in basic's their will be tolls everywhere you go because there will always be closed minded people.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> We are actually still discussing what changes we will be making.  Most likely, not much will change, rule-wise.  For a while now, we've been seeing FA's rules coming closer and closer to Furocity's rules as it is, so there is little reason to get worried.  No, we're not banning furry porn (as was previously hypothesized  ).


 Its not the furry porn I'm concerned about. All of this 'maybe' and 'most likely' is pretty worrisome, especially when the rules of some tiny-ass site might change something in a far larger one. Absolutely NO rules should be changed, period. I'm quite sure most everyone is at least okay with the way FA's rules are now.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> Just an FYI, because this is hilarious: we created, designed, and coded all of Furocity.  From the ground up.


 
So are you saying you work for Psumonix?


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Well seems like now it applies to Anthromorphics as well as humans. They fixed that loophole. Still no clarification yet on rule exchange, just seems like staff for now so don't all get your panties in a bunch over that. 

Seems like rules probably won't be exchanged since both sites are staying independent.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I'm not saying anything about mods being chosen, no no. That's fine. But when anything that affects the site directly, non-personel-ly, we should still hear SOMETHING about it, even if indirectly like "what would you guys think of more resources? *innocent whistle*". Yea I get we have " no rights" but what we're asking for isn't much, is it?


 
Have some reading material, because I love you.




Xenke said:


> The people's voice largely doesn't know about the workings of the site, and their opinions don't really mean squat.
> 
> They could easily vote down something which would help the site because of stupid reason like "I don't want FA to change".
> 
> If you're point is that this move was risky because a lot of people could have been upset by this and left FA, you're wrong. FA has a largely ingrained community which isn't going anywhere for a while.


 


Xenke said:


> 1) Read what I said about an ingrained community. Look back at past "scandals" and see how that affected the userbase. It's a phenomenon in business where they can literally do whatever they want and still be successful. Even if 'Neer chose an option which most people didn't like, the userbase isn't going anywhere.
> 
> 2) Businesses cannot function properly if it's customers are calling all the shots. They know what _they_ would like to see the company do from an outward perspective, but they don't understand how it affects things from an inward perspective. Let's say there was a branch of a chain store in your town. Everyone loves it. Now let's say that despite that, it isn't getting enough business to stay profitable and the company wants to close it down. By the customer's decision, the company would have to keep open this ailing branch. Bad for business.
> 
> 3) Since it sounds like FA is _not_ adopting Furocity's community and structure, that's exactly what I'm talking about with the user's not having enough knowledge on the subject to make a decision. That assumption alone could get FA all riled up and stop what could easily be a very good step forward for FA. So, uhh, yea... thanks for proving my original point.



Follow the quote links if you don't understand the context.


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> Just an FYI, because this is hilarious: we created, designed, and coded all of Furocity.  From the ground up.


 Then either you work for this company or they're claiming your site's work as their own. Which is it?


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> Well seems like now it applies to Anthromorphics as well as humans. They fixed that loophole. Still no clarification yet on rule exchange, just seems like staff for now so don't all get your panties in a bunch over that.
> 
> Seems like rules probably won't be exchanged since both sites are staying independent.


 
Actually Dragoneer did state that they are in the discussion of rules, so I'm sure there will be some rule changes, major or not.


----------



## T-W (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> Its not the furry porn I'm concerned about. All of this 'maybe' and 'most likely' is pretty worrisome, especially when the rules of some tiny-ass site might change something in a far larger one. Absolutely NO rules should be changed, period. I'm quite sure most everyone is at least okay with the way FA's rules are now.


 Agreed. I'd likely leave the site along with most other Artist.


----------



## Vexor Shadewing (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I'm not saying anything about mods being chosen, no no. That's fine. But when anything that affects the site directly, non-personel-ly, we should still hear SOMETHING about it, even if indirectly like "what would you guys think of more resources? *innocent whistle*". Yea I get we have " no rights" but what we're asking for isn't much, is it?


 
You've basically described the internet as communist oriented.


----------



## -Ko- (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm quite interested in seeing how all of this will pan out. I'm glad to hear the databases aren't merging and that our accounts will not be jeopardized in any way.

I'm assuming that FurAffinity will remain free to use? I've been reading that Furocity is a pay-to-use website. I don't want to have to dish out money to upload something here on FA or pay to have full access to the site when I've been doing it for years for free.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'd like to take time to let you know to please keep it civil before I start swinging my Mage Banstaff like Willow Smith Whipping her hair. :V

That is all. :V


----------



## Armaetus (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> FA is gaining a group of excellent administrators, which will bring fair, impartial, and timely moderation.  FA is also gaining a new programming staff, intent on finding and fixing problems, as well as working on a true update (read: recode) for FA, including many of the features that everyone has been clamoring for (journal favoriting, commission tracking, and more).


 
Good, it's about damn time...FA has been leaving us in the dark on communication on certain things like security and code updates(lacking a PR or two members!), not to mention not enough communication between each other, particularly the normal mods! I really hope this does whip their asses in gear since quite a few are sick of this circus and inaction over here.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Cyril Daroun said:


> Then either you work for this company or they're claiming your site's work as their own. Which is it?


He owns the company.



Syntex said:


> Actually Dragoneer did state that they are in the discussion of rules, so I'm sure there will be some rule changes, major or not.


 We are actually working on an AUP revision right now based on feedback, and were discussing changes before the merger was finalized.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I'd like to take time to let you know to please keep it civil before I start swinging my Mage Banstaff like Willow Smith Whipping her hair. :V
> 
> That is all. :V


 
WHY DID YOU REMIND ME OF THAT SONG GOD DAMMIT


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> Have some reading material, because I love you.....


 
Ok? You're merely telling me that like any business, its corrupt and the point that if something was entirely user based, it would fail; just as it would owner-based. It needs to be a mixture. I'm not asking for the keys to the city here, I'm asking for a vote. It's a business and government. Both of them require a system of check and balances.


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> WHY DID YOU REMIND ME OF THAT SONG GOD DAMMIT


 
because maybe he is jelling like a felon? XD idk....


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



-Ko- said:


> I'm assuming that FurAffinity will remain free to use? I've been reading that Furocity is a pay-to-use website. I don't want to have to dish out money to upload something here on FA or pay to have full access to the site when I've been doing it for years for free.


I have no plans on directly changing the way that works any time soon. But, I will say that /if/ we ever do subscriptions (read: if) it won't be like DeviantArt. They make the site impossible to use unless you pay. My theory is offer perks (ala LiveJournal).

But if we had planned to do subscriptions we'd have done them long ago.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> WHY DID YOU REMIND ME OF THAT SONG GOD DAMMIT


 
Because a patron's blasting it...and it is stuck in my head.

Ahem..
*BEHAVE OR BEHEAD*


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> He owns the company.


 Then there is no problem and this is all based on a misunderstanding. Carry on then.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Vexor Shadewing said:


> You've basically described the internet as communist oriented.


 
Oh shi-. I've been exposed!
But seriously, what's wrong with it? It's a site on the internet. Being communist on a website won't destroy the economy.


----------



## darkdoomer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

why not merging both into one solid site? been using furocity since a long time, so i know how it is, the staff is pro and it's made by a webdedsigner who knows his job. it can be a benefit for both sites. think about it.

in before: hurf i'm a troll i'm on the big trol list


----------



## fwbrown61 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Remarkable.

(Newbie is glued to screen, skimming posts)

Really, remarkable. As a snapshot into fur/FA politics,
this thread *is* something to watch.

(Newbie smacks self in head, struggles to turn off
computer, else no other work gets done today)

An observation: in politics, semantics is everything. 

To the people involved here, and after a years work, it 
feels like a merger.

Natural, then, to call it that.

Except that in a political sense, it's more properly
an *alliance.*

(Newbie grabs for old political science textbook to
dig out definition... then smacks muzzle with it. 
Work, work to do...)

Alliance. ALLIANCE. Alli-an-ce. Or if you're dsylexic, Encailla
Say, that word sorta sounds good, doesn't it?

Merger carries the connotations of change or loss
of identity for one or both sides.

Alliance implies stability of identity, if not enhancement
of it. At the least, more of a win-win situation in terms
of shared goals.

(Newbie just had to read the pages that fell open, damn it)

From reading between lines here, strikes me that 
what's going to be happening looks more like an alliance
than a merger. 

This opinion will, I'm sure, have a profound effect on the 
further course of this thread. And the temperature of the 
firestorm. :- /

(Work, work, work, screams the Newbie, about to
dump his coffee on the keyboard as a last resort.)

And I remain,


Flashing on: 'Sir, sir, Rebel Alliance sortie in sector 12!! Scan is giving targetting images... Wait: tails?' :- )

Fred Brown.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> I have no plans on directly changing the way that works any time soon. But, I will say that /if/ we ever do subscriptions (read: if) it won't be like DeviantArt. They make the site impossible to use unless you pay. My theory is offer perks (ala LiveJournal).
> 
> But if we had planned to do subscriptions we'd have done them long ago.


 
dA isn't impossible to use unless you pay, I use it, true the site is too egotistical on the whole is why I hate it, but dA also offers perks to it's subscribers.

But it's a good idea, I always wondered why you never did this, even on the forum, you should offer perks, I've seen it on a lot of other forums, including my own, it'll help boost donations up for you a lot, should probably throw that into your discussions as well.


----------



## Zercompf-Sanika (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

seriously, can we get draken out of this thread?
i wanna read about the merger admin co-op without seeing him say the words that he says every 4 posts.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> He owns the company.
> 
> 
> We are actually working on an AUP revision right now based on feedback, and were discussing changes before the merger was finalized.


 Great. Please be honest: are there ANY plans on banning any more types of artwork? If its going to be changing like Furocity is, I'm going to have to find another site, as much as I'd really rather not have to.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zercompf-Sanika said:


> seriously, can we get draken out of this thread?
> i wanna read about the merger admin co-op without seeing him say the words that he says every 4 posts.


 
Use the ignore feature.


----------



## reian (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



fwbrown61 said:


> Remarkable.
> 
> (Newbie is glued to screen, skimming posts)
> 
> ...


 
I love you Fred...You always say things so eloquently


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> Great. Please be honest: are there ANY plans on banning any more types of artwork? If its going to be changing like Furocity is, I'm going to have to find another site, as much as I'd really rather not have to.


 
that would really suck if they did that.... i would go back to Furry 4 life and facebook if they did that though to be honest


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



reian said:


> I love you Fred...You always say things so eloquently


It looks like Cho'gall came in here to state his opinion...with less death and destruction-y stuff. :V



TsukinoOokami26 said:


> that would really suck if they did that.... i would go back to Furry 4 life and facebook if they did that though to be honest


 
I doubt you have to worry about that unless some other site thingy chooses to drop FA because of "X" artwork. :V


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zercompf-Sanika said:


> seriously, can we get draken out of this thread?
> i wanna read about the merger admin co-op without seeing him say the words that he says every 4 posts.


 
I love you too. <3


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

So the two sites will share staff and coding resources yet remain separate? ...I am okay with this. At least something might get done now.



fwbrown61 said:


> Remarkable.
> 
> (Newbie is glued to screen, skimming posts)
> 
> ...



This post reads like prog metal lyrics


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> I love you too. <3



LOL :'D


----------



## yiffytimesnews (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I have no idea what Furocity is, but I did check the site. It does look rather cool.


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Also cheers for using the site-wide announcement thingie instead of Twitter~


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Aden said:


> This post reads like prog metal lyrics


 I didn't think of this until you said it, but I see it now and it's so true .-.

Also how many times are they going to have to say that the sites aren't doing much more than sharing staff? FA is still going to be FA and Furocity is still going to be Furocity, though there may or may not be rule changes. Though honestly I highly doubt any minor rule change is going to affect the majority of users anyways.


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Aden said:


> Also cheers for using the site-wide announcement thingie instead of Twitter~



i hate Twitter! I dont get the point really when you can DO THE SAME DAMN THING ON YOUR FACEBOOK OR MYSPACE PAGE! twitter is just....grrrrrrrr


----------



## reian (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Aden said:


> Also cheers for using the site-wide announcement thingie instead of Twitter~


Speaking of which...when if FA going to have a google +?  get with the times already XD


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> It looks like Cho'gall came in here to state his opinion...with less death and destruction-y stuff. :V
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt you have to worry about that unless some other site thingy chooses to drop FA because of "X" artwork. :V


 I really hope you're right. I'm all for FA getting more people to help work on coding and whatnot, but all this shit about the AUP being updated right after Furocity pops up like this is worrisome. Some concrete statement from someone that they're not going to be banning ANY other types or artwork would go a long way to calming some peoples nerves.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Ok? You're merely telling me that like any business, its corrupt and the point that if something was entirely user based, it would fail; just as it would owner-based.



Just like any business: yes
Corrupt: no, unless you think that the people in charge making decisions is corrupt, in which case I'd label you as having severe problems with authority.
User-based Fail: yes, the users frankly don't know shit about running FA.
Owner-based Fail: in some instances I would agree that this is possible, but this seems like a genuinely good idea and I don't understand why you seem to think otherwise.



> It needs to be a mixture. I'm not asking for the keys to the city here, I'm asking for a vote. It's a business and government. Both of them require a system of check and balances.


 
It's not a government, that's a retarded thing to say. Regardless, a businesses checks and balances come mostly internally.

So like I've been hinting at, it's not that your opinion doesn't matter, it's just that it isn't relevant in any way.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> Just like any business: yes
> Corrupt: no, unless you think that the people in charge making decisions is corrupt, in which case I'd label you as having severe problems with authority.
> User-based Fail: yes, the users frankly don't know shit about running FA.
> Owner-based Fail: in some instances I would agree that this is possible, but this seems like a genuinely good idea and I don't understand why you seem to think otherwise.
> ...


 
*Nods* I can agree with what you said to a point, as you are with me. In the end it's opinions and fate, so to speak.

Also, it seems this thread is slowly going off topic now..


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> I really hope you're right. I'm all for FA getting more people to help work on coding and whatnot, but all this shit about the AUP being updated right after Furocity pops up like this is worrisome. Some concrete statement from someone that they're not going to be banning ANY other types or artwork would go a long way to calming some peoples nerves.


 
If that happens, there are other sites to find what you are looking for. You do not have to worry because it will not happen for a long time.


----------



## thedarkwolfzearoth (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> .....
> Wat?



I don't mean actually kill I mean that they will have to remove their art and won't be able to do it draw it anymore.


----------



## Zercompf-Sanika (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



TsukinoOokami26 said:


> i hate Twitter! I dont get the point really when you can DO THE SAME DAMN THING ON YOUR FACEBOOK OR MYSPACE PAGE! twitter is just....grrrrrrrr


i hate this information system! why can't they use the information systems i prefer! argh!



Xenke said:


> [That whole draken reply]


xenke, arguing with this dude is like tossing logs on a fire that nobody wants. just stop replying lmao



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Also, it seems this thread is slowly going off topic now..


you really think so?


----------



## 74WolfRam (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Do not want. At all.
Do not want change, has questionable confidence in leaders after the last messup.
Do not want.
See no reason.
Do not want.


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zercompf-Sanika said:


> i hate this information system! why can't they use the information systems i prefer! argh!


 
I just dont understand this weird thing with twitter that everyone like. Who in the hell wants to know what you are getting for breaskfast at that moment? not me! lol



			
				xenke said:
			
		

> lol one thing i have learned that if someone is bothering you that much, there is this little x thingy in the cover of the screen. Trolls only really have power if you keep feeding them XD not trying to say anyone in this  forum is a troll just saying lol
> 
> (there that is more like it!) lol


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

What are the reasons for the merger? Business move? Who's benefiting?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> dA isn't impossible to use unless you pay, I use it, true the site is too egotistical on the whole is why I hate it, but dA also offers perks to it's subscribers.


 dA is good if you like trojans n shit

Just curious...Dragoneer.. will you be making an announcement if/when you do decide to change the AUP to gather user support/votes/whatever?
Cause I for one, will be kinda irritated if the "no depictions of illegal activities" art rule gets put into place without consulting the users first, cause I think that will ban all marijuana-related art..
but if it does, meh.


74WolfRam said:


> Do not want. At all.
> Do not want change, has questionable confidence in leaders after the last messup.
> Do not want.
> See no reason.
> Do not want.


 ..... They want to let Furocity admins/owner join FA...
I think it will benefit FA greatly.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> If that happens, there are other sites to find what you are looking for. You do not have to worry because it will not happen for a long time.


 Perhaps, but I really do enjoy FA, for all its 'quirks'. Having to jump ship because some half-dead little site decided to cling to FA for life support would just be sad.


----------



## DragonTalon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Oh thank god.

I remember when HP and Compaq merged.  I used both equipment from both and it was YEARS before the merged website became even remotely useful again.

Phew!


----------



## Crossdog367 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Wait, please tell me the site name isn't changing. Because FurAffinity sounds ten times cooler than Furocity.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



thedarkwolfzearoth said:


> I don't mean actually kill I mean that they will have to remove their art and won't be able to do it draw it anymore.


 
With the situation that happened a few months ago; if that happens, they can still draw it, it is just that they will have to find another furry site to host it. There are plenty of sites that will cater to what you are looking for, it is just that you have to look for it.



FennyK said:


> Perhaps, but I really do enjoy FA, for all its 'quirks'. Having to jump ship because some half-dead little site decided to cling to FA for life support would just be sad.



I doubt it. If it is a minority, there will not be that much damage done to the site unless porn is "Banned" as a whole. Then you have something to worry about. :V


----------



## anero (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

what is furocity


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



anero said:


> what is furocity


 
i dont know what it is either and honestly i dont see myself using it anytime soon...


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> dA is good if you like trojans n shit
> 
> Just curious...Dragoneer.. will you be making an announcement if/when you do decide to change the AUP to gather user support/votes/whatever?
> Cause I for one, will be kinda irritated if the "no depictions of illegal activities" art rule gets put into place without consulting the users first, cause I think that will ban all marijuana-related art..
> ...


 
Then I guess I'm just one of those people who know of adblockplus

If the rule ''no feral porn'' gets carried over as well, then I would see a lot of people getting pissed off, I know a GREAT amount of people who indulge in feral porn, mostly dragon wise people but that is besides the point, and I know it would get them railed up a lot.

But drug related art also has a big share amount as feral porn, so I don't know....Dragoneer stated that art is art, but cub art is cub art as well and it got removed.


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

So -this- is what Gavin couldn't tell me about under any circumstances. Bravo to him for keeping this from literally everyone not immediately involved with this merger, I can only imagine how much restraint that took, considering this was a year in the making.

Needless to say, this is the exact last thing I expected to happen, and probably the best thing you could have ever done. I honestly thought FA was going to go the way of Myspace with the way things had been going, but I have to say that Gavin really is a stellar programmer and manager, and you should all definitely give him as warm a welcome as possible. I've known the guy for two years now, and he's been fantastic during the time I've known him.

And honestly, I have to commend Dragoneer too for allowing somebody else to share the reins with him (and especially someone as competent). A new outlook and direction is definitely what the site needs, and I'm more than happy to see that's what it's getting.


----------



## TehSean (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Whatever paves the way for getting back to rebuilding the site so that old features can be re-implemented and features planned from ages ago without worry about the legacy code getting in the way.


----------



## TsukinoOokami26 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> Then I guess I'm just one of those people who know of adblockplus
> 
> If the rule ''no feral porn'' gets carried over as well, then I would see a lot of people getting pissed off, I know a GREAT amount of people who indulge in feral porn, mostly dragon wise people but that is besides the point, and I know it would get them railed up a lot.
> 
> But drug related art also has a big share amount as feral porn, so I don't know....Dragoneer stated that art is art, but cub art is cub art as well and it got removed.



but there is still cub art just not cub pronz of it as much....


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> Then I guess I'm just one of those people who know of adblockplus
> 
> If the rule ''no feral porn'' gets carried over as well, then I would see a lot of people getting pissed off, I know a GREAT amount of people who indulge in feral porn, mostly dragon wise people but that is besides the point, and I know it would get them railed up a lot.
> 
> But drug related art also has a big share amount as feral porn, so I don't know....Dragoneer stated that art is art, but cub art is cub art as well and it got removed.


 
I have adblock, noscript, etc

I legit don't care if feral porn gets banned.
I just don't see a reasonable explanation for drug art being banned. [if it's even in consideration]


----------



## Bobskunk (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> if people got to sit behind the scenes to see how it is run, then people would change their tune. For now, people will complain that the site is not running by "their standards". :V


 
You do realize that, while it may very well be true if people got to see what was really going on their criticism would be less strident, there is insistence on secrecy that makes sure people have no idea what's actually going on "behind the scenes."  It's kinda funny hearing complaints that "if only people knew what it was really like" or "if only people would stop speculating about what they didn't know" or "if only people would stop trying to find out what was actually going on."  If you fight against people knowing what's going on "behind the scenes." that's a choice to accept the consequences of speculation and not living up to "their standards" just as openness has its own consequences.  Cry more. :V

But yeah, staff sharing isn't a merger, and it's not a co-op like IK keeps trying to claim it is, because these words have specific definitions.  It's just some degree of staff sharing and loose-affiliation website-wise.  It's like how The Furry Pound used to have its own link in the navbar, but in a semi-partnership.  Kinda surprised that Furocity was the post FA's hitching itself to, though.  Its only significance was "that thing Benchilla would never shut the fuck up about."


----------



## ShadowSparkle (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

The main questions,
_Is Furaffinity gonna change alot? If so, what will happen? What is allowed? What if someone has the same name? Will ours change? _

*I THINK: *We should not merge. 

*ALSO, If *some fur went on vacation or something and came back, they would not know what happened because FA is gone. The name will be changed possibly. ~Shadow


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> With the situation that happened a few months ago; if that happens, they can still draw it, it is just that they will have to find another furry site to host it. There are plenty of sites that will cater to what you are looking for, it is just that you have to look for it.
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it. If it is a minority, there will not be that much damage done to the site unless porn is "Banned" as a whole. Then you have something to worry about. :V


 Well, I know plenty of people who indulge in feral porn (myself included), so this whole buisness has me worried. I just want Dragoneer to make a definitive comment on it so I can a.)stop worrying or b.) find a new site to frequent.


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Haha, god dammit, of course my seriouspost ends up at the very bottom of a page. I have such great luck, it's amazing.

EDIT: Or I guess not. Deleted posts, woo woooo.



			
				Bobskunk said:
			
		

> Kinda surprised that Furocity was the post FA's hitching itself to, though. Its only significance was "that thing Benchilla would never shut the fuck up about."



Thems fighting words, boy.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> I have adblock, noscript, etc
> 
> I legit don't care if feral porn gets banned.
> I just don't see a reasonable explanation for drug art being banned. [if it's even in consideration]


 
I was just drawing reference, I see no reason for any other kind of fetish to get removed either.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Bobskunk said:


> You do realize that, while it may very well be true if people got to see what was really going on their criticism would be less strident, there is insistence on secrecy that makes sure people have no idea what's actually going on "behind the scenes."  It's kinda funny hearing complaints that "if only people knew what it was really like" or "if only people would stop speculating about what they didn't know" or "if only people would stop trying to find out what was actually going on."  If you fight against people knowing what's going on "behind the scenes." that's a choice to accept the consequences of speculation and not living up to "their standards" just as openness has its own consequences.  Cry more. :V



Secrecy aside, it is true. It's not so much of a complaint, but it is true. If we didn't have that secrecy, people would either calm down a bit or bitch more because it is not what they asked for in the first place, or just bitch for the sake of bitching. Some have a hard-on for that. 
So QQ MOAR and go back to your conspiracy theories, Bobby.


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



ShadowSparkle said:


> The main questions,
> _Is Furaffinity gonna change alot? If so, what will happen? What is allowed? What if someone has the same name? Will ours change? _
> 
> *I THINK: *We should not merge.
> ...



Did you read the updated original post? Both sites are remaining independant.


----------



## Night-san (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Not sure if want. :|

I've never been on Furocity, so I can't really give an educated opinion.


----------



## Shikaro (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

in my opinion no fetish should be removed, if we talk about that
but if they do, well, deal with it! im a feral/bestiality porn lover as long as its art, no real stuff, no breaking laws etc. but if they ban it well i'll deal with it and just look for it in another site.
in general not much will change really!


----------



## Taasla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> Then I guess I'm just one of those people who know of adblockplus
> 
> But drug related art also has a big share amount as feral porn, so I don't know....Dragoneer stated that art is art, but cub art is cub art as well and it got removed.


 
Cub porn got removed because Alert Pay dropped FA for it.  They didn't care about anything but cub art.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Shikaro said:


> in my opinion no fetish should be removed, if we talk about that
> but if they do, well, deal with it! im a feral/bestiality porn lover as long as its art, no real stuff, no breaking laws etc. but if they ban it well i'll deal with it and just look for it in another site.
> in general not much will change really!


 
I'm guessing the only true people would get angry and upset enough to leave and bad talk the site would be either

1) too lazy to look for other sites
2) Artists who used such porn to get their fame to where they are today, taking into consideration that if they couldn't upload it anymore, their account would grow dead, just like the cub porn artists.


----------



## dineegla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

PLEASE NOTE:

We also have a legal entity called *Furocity Gym*. It is also online. _We have no association with Furocity.com._

Just some clarification just in case someone may think that it's us.

Dineegla and MuscleWolf, owners of Furocity Gym


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dineegla said:


> PLEASE NOTE:
> 
> We also have a legal entity called *Furocity Gym*. It is also online. _We have no association with Furocity.com._
> 
> ...


 
I don't think there was any confusion about that in this thread, but good to know I guess!


----------



## 74WolfRam (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> dA is good if you like trojans n shit
> 
> Just curious...Dragoneer.. will you be making an announcement if/when you do decide to change the AUP to gather user support/votes/whatever?
> Cause I for one, will be kinda irritated if the "no depictions of illegal activities" art rule gets put into place without consulting the users first, cause I think that will ban all marijuana-related art..
> ...


 
You're free to think that.


----------



## Enkai (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

What about the fact that Furocity is full of art and character thieves?


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Aden said:


> Also cheers for using the site-wide announcement thingie instead of Twitter~


 I learned my lesson


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Enkai said:


> What about the fact that Furocity is full of art and character thieves?


 
Not relevant?


----------



## Armaetus (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dineegla said:


> PLEASE NOTE:
> 
> We also have a legal entity called *Furocity Gym*. It is also online. _We have no association with Furocity.com._
> 
> ...


 
You should change the domain name to prevent confusion then.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Shikaro said:


> in my opinion no fetish should be removed, if we talk about that
> but if they do, well, deal with it! im a feral/bestiality porn lover as long as its art, no real stuff, no breaking laws etc. but if they ban it well i'll deal with it and just look for it in another site.
> in general not much will change really!


 As long as it's art... it will be protected as best we can.


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

will this take months upon months with you constantly reminding us taht the merge gonna happen like...everything else :V


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> Not relevant?


 
just what I was thinking.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Enkai said:


> What about the fact that Furocity is full of art and character thieves?


 Uhhh those are roleplayers and roleplayers are everywhere on every furry site. :\
If you see someone stealing art on FA... report them?


----------



## Zercompf-Sanika (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Glaice said:


> You should change the domain name to prevent confusion then.


oh you're serious.



~ ~ ~ Can we make it clear somehow (without the PR garbage, 'neer) that this isn't a "merger" because that's the word people are freaking out about?


----------



## HOOT (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Syntex said:


> I'm guessing the only true people would get angry and upset enough to leave and bad talk the site would be either
> 
> 1) too lazy to look for other sites
> 2) Artists who used such porn to get their fame to where they are today, taking into consideration that if they couldn't upload it anymore, their account would grow dead, just like the cub porn artists.


 
Honestly, that's exactly why artist's need to be flexible. Drawing one thing of one topic can get you popular with one spectrum of people, but you could honestly do a lot better if you give your talent different situations to be drawn in :U.

On a side note, though, I do support and look forward to what can be/will be done when Furaffinity merges. More staff means less trouble and trouble can be quickly dealt with. And maybe they'll both collaborate to improve on fixing safety issues that may occur in the future.
I just hope that both owners are firm about this, and truly don't have their differences and should negotiate all of this (if they haven't already), including both of their rules, and keep us updated with their agreements and so forth. It would be really upsetting to see this called off if a disagreement on a subject comes at hand. I'm pretty sure that almost happened to United and Continental airlines xD.
But it may just be my curiosity of the happenings that got me a bit more excited about this than most.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> As long as it's art... it will be protected as best we can.


 As best as you can? Its shit like that that worries me. This is your site, why bother changing anything to the AUP because of Furocity?


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Crysix Fousen said:


> will this take months upon months with you constantly reminding us taht the merge gonna happen like...everything else :V


 Nope. You'll be seeing changes within the month. Maybe not cosmetic, but staffing wise. Other changes will take longer to enact, but we're pushing forward with this as of today.


----------



## HOOT (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> As best as you can? Its shit like that that worries me. This is your site, why bother changing anything to the AUP because of Furocity?



Because it's not like Furocity is forcing him to change his site. They agreed to merge because it may be better for the both of them in the future, I'm sure. I don't think they'd just wanna be cute and be like "hey welp guys. We're just gonna stitch these sites together for fun and see what comes out of it."


----------



## Oasus (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I'm giving this change a chance. Who knows, this could work out.  It might not. We don't know till it happens.

But no matter what happens, I shall move with my cheese. x3


----------



## FireFeathers (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Sounds interesting. I'm not really on the site for the porn aspect, so whatever happens works for me, lol.  I'd just be concerned about usernames changing in any way, which there seems to be a system in place already.


----------



## LizardKing (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Instead of "merger", how about "combining forces", like furry Power Rangers or something.

Because it's not really much of a merger, and it's giving out the wrong impression.


----------



## Oasus (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FireFeathers said:


> Sounds interesting. I'm not really on the site for the porn aspect, so whatever happens works for me, lol.  I'd just be concerned about usernames changing in any way, which there seems to be a system in place already.


 
Since both sites are remaining intact, this is a non-issue. :3


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



LizardKing said:


> Instead of "merger", how about "combining forces", like furry Power Rangers or something.
> 
> Because it's not really much of a merger, and it's giving out the wrong impression.


 
Pretty much. I'm all for what you guys are doing, but the word "merger" seems to be confusing some people who don't want to read the whole thread.


----------



## dineegla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



insane_kangaroo said:


> I don't believe either side has ever gone through a merger, thus used the word incorrectly.
> 
> Reading Dragoneer's responses, what they're creating is a "co-op," like a farmers' co-op except for two web organizations.


 I have to agree with you there. I see Furocity as VASTLY different than FA. And frankly, Dragoneer needs them more than they need FA. Just my opinion.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



HOOT said:


> Because it's not like Furocity is forcing him to change his site. They agreed to merge because it may be better for the both of them in the future, I'm sure. I don't think they'd just wanna be cute and be like "hey welp guys. We're just gonna stitch these sites together for fun and see what comes out of it."


 If they're not forcing him to, then why did he even bring it up at all? I doubt this is the case, but paranoid-FA-user in me thinks this is gonna be "Well, we'll give you some coders so long as you get rid of feral porn".


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



LizardKing said:


> Instead of "merger", how about "combining forces", like furry Power Rangers or something.
> 
> Because it's not really much of a merger, and it's giving out the wrong impression.


 
From what I gather, it's a slow merger. Right now they're just combining forces, but in the future they might fuse as one.

But, iirc, that was just one person's post quoting a note or something. Information is questionable.


----------



## Draken_The_Dragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

*Catches up after drive home*
New staff and resources, I'm ok with, glad even I daresay. As much as he's been a nusiance, Zercompf-Sanika says something else I do agree with, which Neer, is an easy mistake, small but with a wide backlash effect (obviously), naming it a full on merger wasn't a good move. Furocity in my opinion is ok, but I would never agree to a database and site merge if that was going to/is going to ever happen. FA the way it is in its look and workings is great to me. I don't like the idea of changing FA like that. We are who we are, not what we want to be (that sounds off, just not sure how else to describe it). I support the support for the site though  My only question is I guess, which I'll have to wait in time I suppose, is what exactly will change. Probably not much that will affect me but it's good to know.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> If they're not forcing him to, then why did he even bring it up at all? I doubt this is the case, but paranoid-FA-user in me thinks this is gonna be "Well, we'll give you some coders so long as you get rid of feral porn".


Holy crap
I..
Nobody said FA is getting rid of feral porn.
Nobody said FA is getting rid of *anything*


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Holy crap
> I..
> Nobody said FA is getting rid of feral porn.
> Nobody said FA is getting rid of *anything*


No, but nobody also said that it's not going to happen either. It's _uncertain_ so it worries him and a few others.


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Merger could be the wrong words used, as after all you just including several things they have onto FA to improve upon it. I would take it that it was the Furocity coding talent you keep on telling us you were getting then.


----------



## HOOT (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> No, but nobody also said that it's not going to happen either. It's _uncertain_ so it worries him and a few others.


 
and what if it does? I always viewed FA as more of an art site rather than a porn exploitation site, in all honesty. :/ 
But I really don't think it would happen for the sake of the fact that FA would lose 90 percent of it's users and it's a huge part of FA as a whole, and alot of GOOD art is revolving around the porn, too.


----------



## dineegla (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Glaice said:


> You should change the domain name to prevent confusion then.


 Actually, Furocity.com is well aware of this and we co-exist nicely. FA patrons may not know.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Holy crap
> I..
> Nobody said FA is getting rid of feral porn.
> Nobody said FA is getting rid of *anything*


'neer mentioned AUP changes are coming. Furocity suddenly pops in and has a policy against it. 
You're right that nobody has said anything is getting removed, but 'neer isn't giving any straight answers on it, so I'm just concerned, thats all. I'm hoping you're right and nothing does happen, and I'm pretty sure thats the case...but until we get a straight answer from 'neer or someone else, I'll be concerned.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> No, but nobody also said that it's not going to happen either. It's _uncertain_ so it worries him and a few others.


 Why worry about removing things when you don't even know if it's going to happen?

MFW



FennyK said:


> 'neer mentioned AUP changes are coming. Furocity suddenly pops in and has a policy against it.
> You're right that nobody has said anything is getting removed, but 'neer isn't giving any straight answers on it, so I'm just concerned, thats all. I'm hoping you're right and nothing does happen, and I'm pretty sure thats the case...but until we get a straight answer from 'neer or someone else, I'll be concerned.


 If you're really that bent out of shape over losing feral porn, go to e621. If they ban drug-related art.. that won't make me rush off to e621, I just won't post drug-related art to FA. I don't see what the big deal is.


----------



## ADF (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Dunno what Furocity is. My main concern is the inevitable downtime, and issues, that such a merger would cause. Should we be backing stuff up; just in case?


----------



## theLight (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



HOOT said:


> and what if it does? *I always viewed FA as more of an art site rather than a porn exploitation site, in all honesty. :/ *
> But I really don't think it would happen for the sake of the fact that FA would lose 90 percent of it's users and it's a huge part of FA as a whole, and alot of GOOD art is revolving around the porn, too.


 
Actually, wait a minute. Looking at yak's map now. Might be wrong.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



ADF said:


> Dunno what Furocity is. My main concern is the inevitable downtime, and issues, that such a merger would cause. Should we be backing stuff up; just in case?


 
Read the thread, there really shouldn't be any downtime associated with _gaining new admins and coders_.



theLight said:


> Mature/Adult submissions out-number clean stuff by an almost 2:1 margin :V


 
It's been a while since I've seen the numbers, but no they don't...? 

Unless your colonvee was to express that you were in fact stating a lie.


----------



## cougar1823 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

The FA users a like passengers on a ship, going on a free ride. The captain has announced a course change, and has assured them that while he's not sure what the new heading will be, that the passengers will like where they're going. Add to this the fact that previous course changes, while needed to avoid running aground, have resulted in losing some of the passengers overboard, and that over time some of the crew have taken to throwing passengers overboard for questionable reasons. Does that sound like a fun boat ride to you? Wouldn't you feel more assured if you got a say in where the ship was heading, or at least got to listen in on the discussions? Wouldn't you be tempted to bail out at the first sign of a ship with a saner crew?


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



HOOT said:


> and what if it does?


Don't ask me I haven't a clue. Furocity allows porn though, they aren't going to get rid of porn thats for sure. I think you overlooked that we were talking about one specific rule from Furocity and the possibility of it appearing here.

Also Clayton, not worrying over it just stating that it is something that could have been decided prior to prevent this.


----------



## Oasus (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



ADF said:


> Dunno what Furocity is. My main concern is the inevitable downtime, and issues, that such a merger would cause. Should we be backing stuff up; just in case?


 
regardless if there is downtime or not, you should ALWAYS have backups. <_<


----------



## ginzburg (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

In my long history online all merges do is kill both sites and groups. I really think this is the worst option to do with FA and you should find a way to keep it on it's own separate from the rest of the fandom because in all honesty all other furry sites are shit and merging is just going to bring down the quality of FA. Really hope it doesn't happen but I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up killing fa.


----------



## HOOT (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



theLight said:


> Mature/Adult submissions out-number clean stuff by an almost 2:1 margin :V


 
*But I really don't think it would happen for the sake of the fact that  FA would lose 90 percent of it's users and it's a huge part of FA as a  whole, and alot of GOOD art is revolving around the porn, too.*


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> No, but nobody also said that it's not going to happen either. It's _uncertain_ so it worries him and a few others.


 The discussion has never even come up.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



theLight said:


> Mature/Adult submissions out-number clean stuff by an almost 2:1 margin :V


 
It's the other way around. :V

Clean material out-numbers the Mature/Adult. Adult/mature gets more views.


----------



## gunnersquad (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

guys stop crying about the possibility of your feral porn disappearing, seriously it's not an issue at this point and you are over reacting.


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Why worry about removing things when you don't even know if it's going to happen?
> 
> MFW
> 
> ...


 thats how usually things work really
FA is just saying "Dont post it here" doesnt mean you cant go somewhere else to get your fix


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Why worry about removing things when you don't even know if it's going to happen?
> 
> MFW
> 
> ...


That iss exactly what I'll be doing if they do. I'm just wanting an answer one way or the other, not a bunch of wishy-washy statements from neer.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

What makes me lose faith in hy00manity is the fact that you all are obsessing over losing porn 



FennyK said:


> That iss exactly what I'll be doing if they do. I'm just wanting an answer one way or the other, not a bunch of wishy-washy statements from neer.


 Neer hasn't made wishy-washy statements on removing art. He has simply stated that they may revise the AUP to cooperate with Furocity's AUP.
That they may bring over AUP rules from Furocity. "May" does not mean for sure. It's just that they're thinking about it.

"thinking about it" does not mean "they will"
:S


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



theLight said:


> Mature/Adult submissions out-number clean stuff by an almost 2:1 margin :V


 Nope, sorry! It's about 1/3rd adult/mature and 65% clean (may be higher)


----------



## theLight (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Yeah, sorry guys. Could have sworn it was different and in my favour, but yes I'm wrong. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1932796#cid:14580554
And I can't find the lulz thread that linked to an artist with like 2k submissions, all clean but.. well, quite honestly they were nightmarish. I would think it's the treatment of FA as a photobucket and dumping tons of no-effort sketches/crayon-drawings on the site that might cause the number. Who knows though.


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*






 Originally Posted by *Fauz* 
How about their no "bestiality" rule that would ban large portion of the artwork on FA, I assume this is being trashed...



  We we have not discussed this policy at this time. Currently,  art is still art, but RL discussion of bestiality is still banned.

Page 2 Mr. Neer
Not really clarified if you just never got around to talking about it or just not bothering with any rule changes there.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> That iss exactly what I'll be doing if they do. I'm just wanting an answer one way or the other, not a bunch of wishy-washy statements from neer.


 If I was going to ban that particular content I'd have done so /yeeeeears/ ago. The only plans we have, right now, on policing further is photography.


----------



## ADF (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> Read the thread, there really shouldn't be any downtime associated with _gaining new admins and coders_.



Long thread is...  

Thanks for the clarification, just found this recently.


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> The discussion has never even come up.


 THANK YOU. That's all I wanted to hear. Much appreciated. 
If it does (which I would reckon it won't) I get the feeling you'll stick up for our current AUP. If thats the case, thank you in advance :3


----------



## FennyK (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> What makes me lose faith in hy00manity is the fact that you all are obsessing over losing porn
> 
> 
> Neer hasn't made wishy-washy statements on removing art. He has simply stated that they may revise the AUP to cooperate with Furocity's AUP.
> ...


 Well, porn is the big reason I'm here  But Dragoneer has clarified that he's not going to be messin' wif our pr0n, so I'm at ease. You were right, unsurprisingly  Didn't mean to sound snarky, if thats how I was coming across.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> If I was going to ban that particular content I'd have done so /yeeeeears/ ago. The only plans we have, right now, on policing further is photography.


_ "Multiple photographs (more than a total of 3 in your gallery) of â€œsimilar contentâ€ (same subject, location, and photo session) is not allowed (single montage-submissions are allowed)."_
Oh golly. I hope this one doesn't get enforced strictly. Where will I post photos of my super cool cats now?!?!!!?!!?


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Lols suprising how bent out of shape everyone is over basically a staffing merger, Although I wouldn't be too upset if the sites did eventually merge since my name is the same on both. X'D

For everyone else just go to Dragoneer's post on the 3rd page  of this topic, he said that the sites will remain separate, they're just sharing resources/staff (for now atleast) lol .


----------



## Oasus (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Werewolfhero said:


> Lols suprising how bent out of shape everyone is over basically a staffing merger, Although I wouldn't be too upset if the sites did eventually merge since my name is the same on both. X'D
> 
> For everyone else just go to Dragoneer's post on the 3rd page  of this topic, he said that the sites will remain separate, they're just sharing resources/staff (for now atleast) lol .


 
I believe its on the first post as well


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



FennyK said:


> THANK YOU. That's all I wanted to hear. Much appreciated.
> If it does (which I would reckon it won't) I get the feeling you'll stick up for our current AUP. If thats the case, thank you in advance :3


 
"Current AUP" is under revision, FYI.


----------



## BadDogAnimations (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

From what ive gathered this isn't going to make too much of a difference for the day to day viewer so im not too concerned about the "merger". For Dragoneers sake i really hope that this is just s sharing resources and staff deal here. I really don't know any of the background information about this whole deal so what i say has no real weight. The Co-Owner statment confuses me a little because there is no way 50% of Furocity is worth anywhere near 50% of FA but since we dont know all the details who knows.

Either way I know Neer has had a lot more time than anyone else on this thread to think this over and has more information to work with so im sure hes looked over most of the details and made the decision he though was best for FA.

Good luck with the merger Dragoneer. Hopefully things go smoothly and work out for the best.


----------



## MrWolfeh (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Hmm...will be interesting to see how the staff from furocity interact with FA regulars and staff.


----------



## Browder (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



MrWolfeh said:


> Hmm...will be interesting to see how the staff from furocity interact with FA regulars and staff.


 I'm incredibly excited about it to tell the truth. I think this is gonna be awesome.


----------



## silverbatmarch (Jul 14, 2011)

Don't even know what Furocity is 
REGARDLESS
I hope everything turns out well and you guys make an awesome furry art/community |3
I swear to god if it looks like deviantart I will cry ;_;


----------



## maddogairpirate (Jul 14, 2011)

I can neither feel positive nor negative without knowing what this really entails. More coders, I'm all for that. Rule changes, fine.

But what I want, more than anything, is a pretty measurable AUP and code of conduct where offenses are handled in the same way so that favoritism doesn't leak in. I still see a lot of self-tailored punishments by admins, and it bothers me. Some are meted out fairly, and then you see a lot where it's clear enough that someone has a vendetta.

I can think of one recent example where someone was tempbanned for 10 years, with no specifics given, only references to being warned repeatedly about skirting the rules. Not the piece in question, not mention of recent or any examples... just a nice 10 year temp ban.

So, priority one in all this if you ask me is coming up with quantifiable disciplinary measures for the AUP.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Browder said:


> I'm incredibly excited about it to tell the truth. I think this is gonna be awesome.


 
It's like Christmas all over again. Either you get what you want, or you don't and someone sets fire to the tree. :V
I am excited though.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

maddogairpirate said:


> I can neither feel positive nor negative without knowing what this really entails. More coders, I'm all for that. Rule changes, fine.
> 
> But what I want, more than anything, is a pretty measurable AUP and code of conduct where offenses are handled in the same way so that favoritism doesn't leak in. I still see a lot of self-tailored punishments by admins, and it bothers me. Some are meted out fairly, and then you see a lot where it's clear enough that someone has a vendetta.
> 
> ...


Yeah close to FA mods actually buying the excuse of what people say that some of their cub looking characters are *chronologically over the age of 18 years old*. lol


----------



## Ley (Jul 14, 2011)

I hope to christ that I don't have to change my name, it's pretty cool >_> 

What the hell is Furocity?


----------



## DuoVandal (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm the same with a few other people, I've never even heard of Furocity so I can't tell if I should be happy or not.

Though I do have to say this being forced down everyones throuts seems a little unfair. I thought atleast we'd get a vote on it. I hope not too much changes or I might have to bail.


----------



## Quickwing (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I don't do a great deal on FA anymore save for browsing, but I thought I might at least voice a small opinion in regards to previous posts that basically state, "If the stuff you like gets banned, go somewhere else to get your fix". While it is nice that you can find whatever you're looking for somewhere on the internet, one of the things that drew me to FA initially was the broader rage of art types that could be found there. I know it's always primarily been about furry misc. but it always felt good to find the occasional non-anthro bit of art and/or artist making their mark on the site. I know revisions to the rules and AUP were made in the best interests of the general user base, and I appreciate the benefits they entail... but nevertheless I have to sigh as I consider how art banning and/or limiting means that human porn, or anything that can be construed as such, may eventually have me going to another site with just as narrow a spectrum of acceptable art types where I can't view furry porn... as an example, mind you.

TL;DR Yeah, you can go somewhere else for beastiality, but it would be nice if I could keep it and all the other stuff in one place. Just sayin.


----------



## Kattywampus (Jul 14, 2011)

Ahhh, hahahahaha, April fool's! April foo--- wait.  WAIT a sec... this is JULY....!  D:

P.S.  ITT:  People bitching about services they never paid for.


----------



## teckworks (Jul 14, 2011)

Ehhh, not too keen on the idea.   The two sites were existing just fine by themselves.
Then again, the whole bestiality/feral porn thing makes me cringe, so let's hope they get rid of that.
Just my opinion, anyway.


----------



## Bobskunk (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Secrecy aside, it is true. It's not so much of a complaint, but it is true. If we didn't have that secrecy, people would either calm down a bit or bitch more because it is not what they asked for in the first place, or just bitch for the sake of bitching. Some have a hard-on for that.
> So QQ MOAR and go back to your conspiracy theories, Bobby.




Incredulity aside, what conspiracy theories was I even talking about or espousing?  You complain that some people are never happy with whatever you do, so..  Fuck 'em anyway?  I don't get what you're trying to say here, it just seems naive and reeks of "because they hate our freedom" justification.

The choices aren't "complete silence, lock everything down ever" (which is impossible because leaks happen) and "just give everyone our passwords."  Improving communication with the userbase will go a long way, and the fact that this forum post exists AND was linked on the main site is a step toward that.  The PR release content may not be up to par because of a mini-panic caused by the words "merger," as well as clarification happening way down on the first and second pages but not amending the original post for clarity.

It boils down to informing the userbase when something happens with as much detail as is reasonable.  That doesn't mean you can't have private information and discussions and does not _entitle_ every random dude and dudette to know what's going on, but it does mean people can't be left guessing.  It's a matter of managing perceptions and quelling rumors, and I mean that in a deeper way than saying "that's just a rumor and you don't know the facts."

Or you could continue whining.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

DuoVandal said:


> I'm the same with a few other people, I've never even heard of Furocity so I can't tell if I should be happy or not.
> 
> Though I do have to say this being forced down everyones throuts seems a little unfair. I thought atleast we'd get a vote on it. I hope not too much changes or I might have to bail.


The word "Community" left the building like years ago, but this change may, or may not bring said community back it depends.


----------



## voreo (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Ok so i just went through all the pages of this.

The whole feral porn thing, i know it was not discussed or anything....but do not remove it, i mean cmon ...why would i stay to FA then? I like seeing Feral dragons  

And the "merge" , as people have said IS more like a co op than an actual merge, but i agree with a lot of the users here that if a new AUP comes around, PLEASE let us see it before just posting it, and be all like, YOU CANT DO THIS NOW CAUSE WE SAID SO

I will agree that art with humans and ferals doing them, shouldnt exist...but feral on feral...how is that in anyway supporting that word? ITS NATURE RUNNING ITS COURSE...in art

I for one think the whole recoding *if there will be* will be interesting to see, especially if this recode carries through the update, i know many dont like the idea of the whole thing , but face it.... FA's code is somewhat out of date, im pretty sure Neer would agree to that too (though i honestly, have no idea if it is !) 

And like the majority of the people here ive never heard of Furocity but from what i was seeing in this forum by the guy who runs it.... seems like a solid idea to me with bringing more help to run our awesome setup 

So long as FA's rules , stay mostly as is , i think they should be a little more, clear and detailed however , to shut up some people 

Oh and about the whole DA thing...da just is crap...i hate it

That is all, for now...that i can remember

PS: can someone define the feral thing in more detail to me over a message or something...so im not misunderstanding its concept ^^ , much appreciated.... ^^


----------



## omegasama (Jul 14, 2011)

I sure hope those of us that draw mostly human art will still be able to post our stuff here. I am here because FA allow both furry and human stuff (Especially porn) and I would like for that to continue.


----------



## NewLeopard (Jul 14, 2011)

teckworks said:


> Ehhh, not too keen on the idea.   The two sites were existing just fine by themselves.
> Then again, the whole bestiality/feral porn thing makes me cringe, so let's hope they get rid of that.
> Just my opinion, anyway.


 
I don't know why everyone is freaking out about feral/bestiality. The art in and of its self is just art, some people would say the same thing on how its wrong and gross about regular porn so its all about personal opinion. If you truly look at it, bestiality irl is a union between you and your animal. The people that actually take the time to love and nurture their pet like a child or something close to you and let the course happen naturally. The other like 80 percent of the beasty  community just need to visit bad dragon or a similar place to satisfy their desires.
    As far as the site merger, i am more than happy to see it. Although i have never heard of the other site, extra server space and more personal is always for the best. Less downtime and more updates are possible with this merger.


----------



## Jashwa (Jul 14, 2011)

Never heard of Furocity. 

By co owners, do you mean LITERALLY co-owners? Because that seems like a shitty deal for you, Neer, seeing as FA is giant.


----------



## ShadowDragon00000 (Jul 14, 2011)

I really don't see anything good coming from this.

Do not want.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Bobskunk said:


> Or you could continue whining.


 
My feelings are so hurt, Bobby. :V
I think I am going to go cry in a corner somewhere and write in my journal how you are being so mean to me. :V
My unsername, gibness, and bravado aside, Watch it buddy.



> Incredulity aside, what conspiracy theories was I even talking about or espousing? You complain that some people are never happy with whatever you do, so.. Fuck 'em anyway? I don't get what you're trying to say here, it just seems naive and reeks of "because they hate our freedom" justification.



In a simplistic sense: The customer doesn't always know what he/she wants. 



> The choices aren't "complete silence, lock everything down ever" (which is impossible because leaks happen) and "just give everyone our passwords." Improving communication with the userbase will go a long way, and the fact that this forum post exists AND was linked on the main site is a step toward that. The PR release content may not be up to par because of a mini-panic caused by the words "merger," as well as clarification happening way down on the first and second pages but not amending the original post for clarity.



I agree that communication could be a bit better, and it is better to talk to the consumers than to heep everything under "lock and key".
People are afraid of what it may entail as either new AUP changes to the current one that we have, or something that may "Kill FA". It is understandable for people's feelings on this, but in due time it will change. 



> It boils down to informing the userbase when something happens with as much detail as is reasonable. That doesn't mean you can't have private information and discussions and does not entitle every random dude and dudette to know what's going on, but it does mean people can't be left guessing. It's a matter of managing perceptions and quelling rumors, and I mean that in a deeper way than saying "that's just a rumor and you don't know the facts."



With certain issues, it is better to keep it under lock and key unil things get finalized. If you get people's hopes up too early, then people will get angry. Users can ask questions pertaining to certain issues to the site, and (hopefully) admins can answer to the best of their abilities without giving the whole enchillad (so to speak). 

Most things are better left unsaid with certain issues until they have been finalized. When it is ready, then you can announce it on a wide spectrum like this thread.



NewLeopard said:


> I don't know why everyone is freaking out about feral/bestiality. The art in and of its self is just art, some people would say the same thing on how its wrong and gross about regular porn so its all about personal opinion. If you truly look at it, bestiality irl is a union between you and your animal. The people that actually take the time to love and nurture their pet like a child or something close to you and let the course happen naturally. The other like 80 percent of the beasty  community just need to visit bad dragon or a similar place to satisfy their desires.


 
Ehh...let's just drop the feral/bestiality porn thing for now...


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

ShadowDragon00000 said:


> I really don't see anything good coming from this.
> 
> Do not want.


 
I see so many of these posts without explanation.

What gives?


----------



## Eske (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> I see so many of these posts without explanation.
> 
> What gives?


 
Knee-jerk reaction to change, is my best guess.  

It would be nice if there was at least _some_ kind of explanation for _why_ it seems like a bad idea.


----------



## Alstor (Jul 14, 2011)

Looks like a lot of people are just going to the last page and posting without seeing if their question hasn't already been answered. >: |

Anyways, I think that Neer used the term "merge" since it's an easier term to grasp than "cooperation deal." Right?


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 14, 2011)

Ley said:


> I hope to christ that I don't have to change my name, it's pretty cool >_>
> 
> What the hell is Furocity?


 
Furocity.com is an art community much like FA that sprang up a few years ago when FA was down for several months (although some have said FC has been around longer than that)

Features include, actual groups (not just regular pages that act as groups), working commission pages, character rp page info for those who are into that type stuff, as well as the folder system.



Jashwa said:


> Never heard of Furocity.
> 
> By co owners, do you mean LITERALLY co-owners? Because that seems like a shitty deal for you, Neer, seeing as FA is giant.



Not really since he gains access to their coders and resources.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I don't think they could successfully merge, taking consideration of usernames. Having duplicates, that stuff.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> I see so many of these posts without explanation.
> 
> What gives?



People just bitching for the sake of bitching? A lot of these people have very few posts and I'm positive some joined the forum just to complain on this thread (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). It wouldn't be nearly as annoying if they had something meaningful to add to the discussion. It seems like a lot of these pages in this thread are filled up with useless comments. 

To add to the debate, I think this could go either way. A lot of us here have not heard of Furocity or have little experience with that site. Give it a chance, for all we know this is exactly what both sites need to be more successful. Or it could crash and fail due to either faults on behalf of the staff (new and old) and/or the "pickyness" of users.


----------



## ShadowDragon00000 (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> I see so many of these posts without explanation.
> 
> What gives?


 
Let me answer your question with a question of my own.

If the admins of FA and Furocitiy are simply going to collaborate and share resources without the benefit of a total merger, then what's the point? Does this not directly imply that there's more going on behind the scenes, which Dragoneer has indirectly admitted to, without asking us ( his financial and motivational supporters ) if we consider it to be balanced? If not, and FA starts incorporating Furocity's policies and guidelines, then what does that mean to the users who will be ostracized as a result?


----------



## RailRide (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> I see so many of these posts without explanation.
> 
> What gives?



1: See announcement with 13 pages of comments

2: Do not engage brain ("CUZ TINKING HARD")

3: Jump to conclusion and start typing immediately ("MUST OPINION NAO")

That's how it usually works.

---PCJ


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



TyraWadman said:


> I don't think they could successfully merge, taking consideration of usernames. Having duplicates, that stuff.


 
It's not a full "merge", just a "Business Alliance". Merge was the wrong word to use in this situation if FA is still remaining the same, just with more Admins and coders.


----------



## GTHusky (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



thebeast76 said:


> Not sure if want.



Me neither. I know that the majority of the Furry fandom is very respectful, and specially FA is one of the most respectful and like 97% troll and art theft free communities there is (unlike DA, for example). So IÂ´m concerned of what this merging might bring over to FA.


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 14, 2011)

What I would like to know, with the "merger" as you call it happens, will there be solid guidelines for admins (both here and on the main site), to follow when reviewing submissions, threads, etc ensuring that every member is given fair and honest treatment. Not to mention that admins will be held accountable for violating the TOS, AUP and (knowingly and unknowingly) guidelines as there is far too many instances of double standards (i.e. do as I say NOT as I do).


----------



## DuoVandal (Jul 14, 2011)

I was merely posting my own opinion on the topic because it just sudden showed up. A bit more detail is usually nice so things aren't always jumping to conclusions but I still feel a little edgy on this beside the fact that its kinda just 'happening' and we get no say sort of thing.

Merging and 'sharing' responsibility could really cause harm should something happen and the co-owners stop liking each other. I've seen this a million times from my own experiences on web forums.

I've looked at Furocity and it doesn't look bad, I will have to do a bit of exploring but if things are done correctly and hope to god no body starts a war it could be a good merge. It's pretty much the waiting game now.



> It's not a full "merge", just a "Business Alliance".


 
Never mind, if its like that that sounds nice.


----------



## kayfox (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> We are actually still discussing what changes we will be making.



You should come visit #furaffinity-dev on Furnet and talk to all the security engineers Dragoneer et al have banned from this place.

I might be helpful to know what needs to be fixed and avoided.


----------



## chronoteeth (Jul 14, 2011)

Can we have the fa redesign already instead.


----------



## ActiveXXX (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I hope they take a look at the Website. It's about time someone chucked the FA's ancient CSS away.


----------



## ShadowDragon00000 (Jul 14, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> What I would like to know, with the "merger" as you call it happens, will there be solid guidelines for admins (both here and on the main site), to follow when reviewing submissions, threads, etc ensuring that every member is given fair and honest treatment. Not to mention that admins will be held accountable for violating the TOS, AUP and (knowingly and unknowingly) guidelines as there is far too many instances of double standards (i.e. do as I say NOT as I do).


 
This is exactly one of the things I'm concerned about. There are differences between FA's and Furocitiy's AUP. If we start bringing admins over here, then that increases the risk of unwarranted submission removal and account action. The only real way to prevent this would be to alter both sites' submission policy. Regardless of the end case result, neither of the two outcomes is what could be considered "favorable".


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

ShadowDragon00000 said:


> If the admins of FA and Furocitiy are simply going to collaborate and share resources without the benefit of a total merger, then what's the point?


 
You mean besides a good possibility that FA's code will start to get up to spec and that TTs will start moving along faster?


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> What I would like to know, with the "merger" as you call it happens, will there be solid guidelines for admins (both here and on the main site), to follow when reviewing submissions, threads, etc ensuring that every member is given fair and honest treatment. Not to mention that admins will be held accountable for violating the TOS, AUP and (knowingly and unknowingly) guidelines as there is far too many instances of double standards (i.e. do as I say NOT as I do).


I agree with this post alot. Mods letting users get their way when the users are not supposed to get their way when doing something they are not supposed to be doing according to the AUP, and TOS is messed up.


----------



## ShadowDragon00000 (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> You mean besides a good possibility that FA's code will start to get up to spec and that TTs will start moving along faster?


 
Why do we need new _admins_ to share website coding? We can do that without having to bring in new admins that may not be familiar with FA's community and submission structure.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> I agree with this post alot. Mods letting users get their way when the users are not supposed to get their way when doing something they are not supposed to be doing according to the AUP, and TOS is messed up.


 
With that, if a User's skirting around the rules and it is still up, report it.



ShadowDragon00000 said:


> Why do we need new _admins_ to share website coding? We can do that without having to bring in new admins that may not be familiar with FA's community and submission structure.


 
Hopefully they will get the run-down on how everything works before jumping into it.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

ShadowDragon00000 said:


> Why do we need new _admins_ to share website coding? We can do that without having to bring in new admins that may not be familiar with FA's community and submission structure.


 
We're not sharing coding, we're sharing _coders_.

The difference being that the site will have it's own code, and it will be maintained independently.


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 14, 2011)

ShadowDragon00000 said:


> This is exactly one of the things I'm concerned about. There are differences between FA's and Furocitiy's AUP. If we start bringing admins over here, then that increases the risk of unwarranted submission removal and account action. The only real way to prevent this would be to alter both sites' submission policy. Regardless of the end case result, neither of the two outcomes is what could be considered "favorable".


 
At this point in time there wont be any change since its not a full site merger, but a staffing merger. The only thing Dragoneer's mentioned throught this entire discussion is reevaluating the photography aup (probably since some are still uploading several pics of individual items from their collections instead of just a few pics of grouped items like the aup suggests) and i would imagine further tightening of screencap uploads like SL and other game screenshots.


----------



## DuoVandal (Jul 14, 2011)

This is somewhat on topic, might want to edit the header announcement to not say 'merge' so much as what you said, 'buisness alliance'.


----------



## ShadowDragon00000 (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Hopefully they will get the run-down on how everything works before jumping into it.


 
Which is well and fine. But does it make sense to task an admin to be familiar and keep up to date with not one, but _two_ sets of AUPs for not one, but _two_ websites? Not everyone is going to be mindful of the rules when going through the site, and I guarantee you that there are going to be submissions removed and accounts action without warrant. Sure, the number of occurrences may be slim, but it's not something that should even have the potential of happening in the first place.


----------



## Williamca (Jul 14, 2011)

DuoVandal said:


> This is somewhat on topic, might want to edit the header announcement to not say 'merge' so much as what you said, 'buisness alliance'.


It's already been done to say that, refresh that page you will see  and the FA announcement was updated as well.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 14, 2011)

DuoVandal said:


> This is somewhat on topic, might want to edit the header announcement to not say 'merge' so much as what you said, 'buisness alliance'.


 
are you talking about the header notice on the FA homepage? because that's been changed to say joining forces, as well as this thread title. And the OP.


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> We're not sharing coding, we're sharing _coders_.
> 
> The difference being that the site will have it's own code, and it will be maintained independently.


 
Exactly, as its been mentioned by dragoneer ( page 3 I believe ) the sites will remain separate from each other. Further merging may/may-not happen further down the road but for now there will be more coding staff on hand to help with addressing the many security issues FA has and may help in speeding up implementation of the "Summer of Code" stuff, most of which was supposed to be added in fall of last year. lol


----------



## Heimdal (Jul 14, 2011)

Why was there any secrecy at all? "Just because"? The bitching and complaining was going to happen either way, the only difference is that people really don't know what's going on or what to prepare for now. We're talking about communities here, and leaders of communities don't necessarily have to listen to every person, but every person is listening to them. In the context of community, secrecy is appalling. It doesn't matter how FA reaches it's decisions, but it's disappointing and irresponsible that the leaders don't seem to realize they are leading people. Communication good, yes? ...This is not surprising, but, as always, retarded.

Equally unsurprising, a lot of weirdos jump into the thread to discuss how bestiality is okay.

Anyways, it's good that FA is getting more people into the fold to help. Although, if this level of secrecy and non-communication is a constant of anything, there's just going to be more people in charge not knowing what's happening/lacking the power to do anything. It would truly be nice if I am wrong.


----------



## Kittycoon (Jul 14, 2011)

There is lots of ass to kick in  both these sites.

So you all better get kickin.


----------



## kayfox (Jul 14, 2011)

kayfox
This message has been deleted by Browder. 
Reason
Offtopic.

Okay, so, the question is: Will the combined FurAffinity/Ferocity actually talk to the people who have been uncovering security issues with FurAffinity and actually fix these issues, or will the _professional_ security people in the furry fandom be ignored and banned as usual?


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> Why was there any secrecy at all? "Just because"? The bitching and complaining was going to happen either way, the only difference is that people really don't know what's going on or what to prepare for now. We're talking about communities here, and leaders of communities don't necessarily have to listen to every person, but every person is listening to them. In the context of community, secrecy is appalling. It doesn't matter how FA reaches it's decisions, but it's disappointing and irresponsible that the leaders don't seem to realize they are leading people. Communication good, yes? ...This is not surprising, but, as always, retarded.
> 
> Equally unsurprising, a lot of weirdos jump into the thread to discuss how bestiality is okay.
> 
> Anyways, it's good that FA is getting more people into the fold to help. Although, if this level of secrecy and non-communication is a constant of anything, there's just going to be more people in charge not knowing what's happening/lacking the power to do anything. It would truly be nice if I am wrong.


 
Flip side on the issue of secrecy: If it was announced when talks began a year ago (I think it was mentioned this was a year in the making, could be wrong) be would have been bitching all this time about WHEN WILL IT HAPPEN, LIARS.

And honestly, there's not really anything changing user-side at the moment anyway.



kayfox said:


> Okay, so, the question is: Will the combined FurAffinity/Ferocity actually talk to the people who have been uncovering security issues with FurAffinity and actually fix these issues, or will the _professional_ security people in the furry fandom be ignored and banned as usual?


 
Depends on how polite they are.


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 14, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> Why was there any secrecy at all? "Just because"? The bitching and complaining was going to happen either way, the only difference is that people really don't know what's going on or what to prepare for now. We're talking about communities here, and leaders of communities don't necessarily have to listen to every person, but every person is listening to them. In the context of community, secrecy is appalling. It doesn't matter how FA reaches it's decisions, but it's disappointing and irresponsible that the leaders don't seem to realize they are leading people. Communication good, yes? ...This is not surprising, but, as always, retarded.
> 
> Equally unsurprising, a lot of weirdos jump into the thread to discuss how bestiality is okay.
> 
> Anyways, it's good that FA is getting more people into the fold to help. Although, if this level of secrecy and non-communication is a constant of anything, there's just going to be more people in charge not knowing what's happening/lacking the power to do anything. It would truly be nice if I am wrong.


 
Probably was done to help keep the drama llama's to a minimum but drama seems to be an inescapable force among the furry community, since there are so many in this thread jumping to conclusions without actually taking the time to read through everything and see what's already been said, what was already answered, what's been debunked, etc.


----------



## kayfox (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Depends on how polite they are.



The security industry does not recognize politeness as a requirement for anything.

The new people have a golden oppertuninty to approach these people fresh and new to the situation, and maybe if they are polite, Pi, Eevee, et al will be polite back.  It would be fantastic if we could stop fighting about who's being impolite and actually fix things.


----------



## StainMcGorver (Jul 14, 2011)

I really don't understand why people are complaining so much. If anything we'll see slight improvements to FA when this eventually happens. And hey, Furocity gives me a good laugh every time I press Random Profile.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> With that, if a User's skirting around the rules and it is still up, report it.


You might need to reread my post. What part of *Mods letting users get their way* did you not get?

report it? the deed would have been done before any mod would have seen it.

To this day I still have not gotten my trouble tickets answered yet.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

kayfox said:


> It would be fantastic if we could stop fighting about who's being impolite and actually fix things.


 
My understanding of the current situation: we are, albeit without the previously mentioned individuals.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> You might need to reread my post. What part of *Mods letting users get their way* did you not get?


 
Oh, I got it pretty clear.
Different mods m'dear. Not all are going to let that go by.


----------



## Bobskunk (Jul 14, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> Why was there any secrecy at all? "Just because"? The bitching and complaining was going to happen either way, the only difference is that people really don't know what's going on or what to prepare for now. We're talking about communities here, and leaders of communities don't necessarily have to listen to every person, but every person is listening to them. In the context of community, secrecy is appalling. It doesn't matter how FA reaches it's decisions, but it's disappointing and irresponsible that the leaders don't seem to realize they are leading people. Communication good, yes? ...This is not surprising, but, as always, retarded.
> 
> Equally unsurprising, a lot of weirdos jump into the thread to discuss how bestiality is okay.
> 
> Anyways, it's good that FA is getting more people into the fold to help. Although, if this level of secrecy and non-communication is a constant of anything, there's just going to be more people in charge not knowing what's happening/lacking the power to do anything. It would truly be nice if I am wrong.


 
Hey, watch it, pal.  Don't you know FA is a free service?  That means you had better shut your pie hole and stop complaining and DEAL WITH IT 'cause we've got more ATTITUDE than a mid-90s video game mascot, or something.  I have no idea how these are positive traits, or reflect upon FA in any good way.  Twitter's exploding with that shit.

I guess they conflate "telling people what's going on" with "binding themselves to user input?"  Sure you get a bunch of retards saying "It's our site too let us vote on it!"  Nobody takes them seriously.  Sure, their concerns should be heard, but that is neither a compulsion for staff to listen, nor is it entitlement for those users to be heard.  Any time someone pipes up with "freedom of speech," I just want to shoot them out of a cannon or something.

It's just a shame that policy seems to be thought of in terms of "we aren't obligated to do this, so we won't," no matter how positive or negative the outcomes are.  Not saying it's not entirely within their right to do all this, but just because they can do something doesn't automatically make it good or right.  Some people can't grasp that.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Oh, I got it pretty clear.
> Different mods m'dear. Not all are going to let that go by.


Yeah I will sorta take your word for, or not at all. Chronologically over the age of 18 years old. Fools all mods.


----------



## iconmaster (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I took a look at Furocity, and it seems pretty nice. I approve of any sharing between their system and ours.


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 14, 2011)

What about Mods letting Mods misbehave?


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jul 14, 2011)

Seems very nice to me. Just that I don't know how it'll work in practice.
In case they merge, will Furaffinity cease to be Furaffinity? Or will Furocity disappear from the map and blend in here? 

Either way, I love FA and FAF the way they are. The staff should probably strive for minimal changes in what our current users enjoy the most.

I, and probably many others, would not like dozens of people that come from a relatively different enviroment, to settle in the main site or the forums and cause havoc by manipulating the rules to be as they were in Furocity. We have user guidelines and changing them again would only cause confusion.

Quality over quantity. It'd be better if FA was not the biggest, but the most balanced.
The first few monthes will still feel like there's a division between people from Furocity and people from here.

Well, even though I really don't like it, the end result might not be so bad. I don't know anybody from that site even though I'm pretty sure I've heard the name.
If their userbase is so small, there isn't any reason to break jaws over it.



///////////////////


Well, since both sites are independent, and will stay open, what do you exactly mean by merging the sites? Seems like a socially productive trade route to me.


----------



## Heimdal (Jul 14, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Flip side on the issue of secrecy: If it was announced when talks began a year ago (I think it was mentioned this was a year in the making, could be wrong) be would have been bitching all this time about WHEN WILL IT HAPPEN, LIARS.



Oh I know that. There may be no technical difference at all. But that's fully the reason why communication should have just been the default. Lack of trust and respect are the only reasons it wouldn't realistically be a default, and it's kind of an unfitting way to regard one's own community.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> What about Mods letting Mods misbehave?


I want to agree with this more, and more.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> Yeah I will sorta take your word for, or not at all.


 
You don't have to. I've heard it all before from users who have gotten away with shit or complain that X user has gotten away with Y.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> You don't have to. I've heard it all before from users who have gotten away with shit or complain that X user has gotten away with Y.


Yet do you pay attention to the complaining if yes then keep it up ^^


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Kelpie said:


> Do not want.


 
Do not want either


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Jul 14, 2011)

As long as there is EXCESSIVE amounts of communication between ALL staff, I think I'm cool with it.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> Yet do you pay attention to the complaining if yes then keep it up ^^


 
I try not to see things in black and white if that's what you want to know. :V


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



zachhart12 said:


> Do not want either


 
Why?

Please, enlighten us.


----------



## SniffHeinkel (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I think its a very bad idea. I believe that Neer would just abuse the situation and ban people on Furocity who he kicked from FA.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



SniffHeinkel said:


> I think its a very bad idea. I believe that Neer would just abuse the situation and ban people on Furocity who he kicked from FA.


 
The sites are separate, users banned on one will not be banned on the other.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I try not to see things in black and white if that's what you want to know. :V


But the thing that's in black in white might actually be the most important thing. they tell YOU what's wrong, and you have to make that judgement call cause it's your job.

But, like I always say Mods will mod.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Xenke said:


> Why?
> 
> Please, enlighten us.


They want to keep it simple, and sweet lol


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey could we get things back on topic? Those of you who bring axes to grind when entering the topic...leave them at the front door. It's not appropriate or necessary here.


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 14, 2011)

Satellite One said:


> Seems very nice to me. Just that I don't know how it'll work in practice.
> In case they merge, will Furaffinity cease to be Furaffinity? Or will Furocity disappear from the map and blend in here?
> 
> Either way, I love FA and FAF the way they are. The staff should probably strive for minimal changes in what our current users enjoy the most.
> ...


 they are merging the teams behind each site to benefit each other


----------



## CannotWait (Jul 14, 2011)

Well I had some questions but over the course of 15 pages they were all answered.


----------



## Kaeko (Jul 14, 2011)

as long as the layout remains the same..i think i'll be fine with things..

i really hate change. so i dunno my full views on things at this moment. i'll wait to hear updates


----------



## SniffHeinkel (Jul 14, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> Hey could we get things back on topic? Those of you who bring axes to grind when entering the topic...leave them at the front door. It's not appropriate or necessary here.



Have you been paying any attention to the way Dragoneer runs FA? Hes has promised site fixes and updates for years now and not 1 thing has been fixed. The site gets hacked every other month like its a stick of butter. People who offered to help make the site more secure were ignored. He bans people who don't even break the rules. Summercat is out of control and does whatever he wants. He was commissioned to draw art for people and has yet to do it all. He protected Adam Wan when that note was leaked about him raping that girl Ferality. What make you think it would be any different if he became an admin for Furocity?


----------



## CynicalCirno (Jul 14, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> they are merging the teams behind each site to benefit each other


 
Exchanging control... Well, as long as it's monitored right, it can lead to interesting results and pleasant experience.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Jul 14, 2011)

SniffHeinkel said:


> Have you been paying any attention to the way Dragoneer runs FA? Hes has promised site fixes and updates for years now and not 1 thing has been fixed. The site gets hacked every other month like its a stick of butter. People who offered to help make the site more secure were ignored. He bans people who don't even break the rules. Summercat is out of control and does whatever he wants. He was commissioned to draw art for people and has yet to do it all. He protected Adam Wan when that note was leaked about him raping that girl Ferality. What make you think it would be any different if he became an admin for Furocity?


 
I thought summer was a girl, also what proof do you have that they are out of control? That seems like hearsay and butthurt. Also this doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand so please take your issues elsewhere considering this isn't constructive.


----------



## SniffHeinkel (Jul 14, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I thought summer was a girl, also what proof do you have that they are out of control? That seems like hearsay and butthurt. Also this doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand so please take your issues elsewhere considering this isn't constructive.



I don't know if Summercat is a girl or not. Why does that even matter? And the proof is right there on FA. Just look for it. I am not spreading rumors I am speaking out against the bullshit that Neer and his admin Summer pull. I could give a lesser shit if its constructive or not. Guess why I was banned from FA? Because I made one of Neers buddies Silverautomatic mad offsite. I didn't even break the goddamn rules and was banned for life. What the hell kind of bullshit is that? Ever heard of SilverJackal? He was banned just for asking where the FA donation money goes. Rumor my ass.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



SniffHeinkel said:


> I think its a very bad idea. I believe that Neer would just abuse the situation and ban people on Furocity who he kicked from FA.


 I remember you. I banned you on the site for the sheer amount of drama you created, and then you left some death threats in my voicemail when my number got leaked. =D

Excuse me while I fix that "not banned from the forums" thing.

Edit: Oh, I see you're ban evading on the site again, too.

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/derpywolf


----------



## LizardKing (Jul 14, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I thought summer was a girl



You wouldn't be the first.


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> I remember you. I banned you on the site for the sheer amount of drama you created, and then you left some death threats in my voicemail when my number got leaked. =D
> 
> Excuse me while I fix that "not banned from the forums" thing.


 
LOLOLOL ^^


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> But the thing that's in black in white might actually be the most important thing. they tell YOU what's wrong, and you have to make that judgement call cause it's your job.
> 
> But, like I always say Mods will mod.


 
Not always. 
The downside of seeing both in black and white is that you will not always look at the evidence that has been provided, and personal opinions my get in the way of Making a descision that pertains to a problem..
People do not like mods for the sake of power abuse, corruption, and killing kittens. It is also a shame that the good ones who try to communicate and look at both sides get shunted by the users as well because there is no trust because of what the corrupt ones do. 
No matter, mods will always be the bad guys. :V




Dragoneer said:


> I remember you. I banned you on the site for the sheer amount of drama you created, and then you left some death threats in my voicemail when my number got leaked. =D
> 
> Excuse me while I fix that "not banned from the forums" thing.
> 
> ...


 

Who didn't see that coming? :V



LizardKing said:


> You wouldn't be the first.


 
I thought summer was a guy! :0


----------



## CerbrusNL (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Who didn't see that coming? :V


 I didn't.

The ban-hammer must've been moving at maximum warp. :V


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Not always.
> The downside of seeing both in black and white is that you will not always look at the evidence that has been provided, and personal opinions my get in the way of Making a descision that pertains to a problem..
> People do not like mods for the sake of power abuse, corruption, and killing kittens. It is also a shame that the good ones who try to communicate and look at both sides get shunted by the users as well because there is no trust because of what the corrupt ones do.
> No matter, mods will always be the bad guys. :V


They will always be badguys cause they themselves make the wrong decisions sometimes doesn't matter if good, or bad. because when it comes to your jobs when deciding whos right it is most likely a 50/50 thing.

I don't blame you guys all the time it's just that more of you are falling apart even the strongest of you even tumble down, but hey we are all just people, and that is that.

Now let me stop pulling this thread off topic cause I am getting there. : P


----------



## Mikau (Jul 14, 2011)

Sorry, but no, this is a bad idea, Dragoneer. Merging with a website that's mostly unknown to us on FA? Hell, why not add a merge with Pounced while you're at it? Or how about The Rabbit Hole, and maybe even F-List, to boot?

The point is: Website merging is not a hot idea at all. Leave the two sites as-is.


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> The downside of seeing both in black and white is that you will not always look at the evidence that has been provided, and personal opinions my get in the way of Making a decision that pertains to a problem..
> People do not like mods for the sake of power abuse, corruption, and killing kittens. It is also a shame that the good ones who try to communicate and look at both sides get shunted by the users as well because there is no trust because of what the corrupt ones do.
> No matter, mods will always be the bad guys. :V


 
Zeke, I have respect for admins, WHEN they are properly doing their job, if I have issues with mods, I will PM them to talk so that our issues won't be made public. A good mod, in my opinion, will give warnings and investigate problems before taking drastic action. Communication is teh key here, not the lack thereof.


----------



## Alstor (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Edit: Oh, I see you're ban evading on the site again, too.
> 
> http://www.furaffinity.net/user/derpywolf


 This is something that should be more private, but there's PhillipJFry, too.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> Zeke, I have respect for admins, WHEN they are properly doing their job, if I have issues with mods, I will PM them to talk so that our issues won't be made public. A good mod, in my opinion, will give warnings and investigate problems before taking drastic action. Communication is teh key here, not the lack thereof.


(clap) (clap) (clap)


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> They will always be badguys cause they themselves make the wrong decisions sometimes doesn't matter if good, or bad. because when it comes to your jobs when deciding whos right it is most likely a 50/50 thing.
> 
> I don't blame you guys all the time it's just that more of you are falling apart even the strongest of you even tumble down, but hey we are all just people, and that is that.
> 
> Now let me stop pulling this thread off topic cause I am getting there. : P


 
The moral of this story is that "You can't make people happy whatever you do." :V 

I agree, back to the topic at hand.


----------



## Kattywampus (Jul 14, 2011)

Here, I made you guys a new banner.  I hope you LIKE IT.  http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6119165/


----------



## Delta (Jul 14, 2011)

All I'm concerned with is how long this will take to dissolve and send both sites down the drain.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 14, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> Zeke, I have respect for admins, WHEN they are properly doing their job, if I have issues with mods, I will PM them to talk so that our issues won't be made public. A good mod, in my opinion, will give warnings and investigate problems before taking drastic action. Communication is teh key here, not the lack thereof.


 
As far as I know the current mods and admins do take the time to investigate issues and give warnings when necessary. We communicate plenty. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that the mods on FA or the Admins on the main side don't communicate and talk things out and look over evidence. The reality it is that is far from it and I wish people would stop introducing wishful thinking or speculation because they have axe to grind or may still be upset about past issues.

Now perhaps communication between mods/admins and the site itself needs some improvement and that is something that too is being talked about, discussed, and worked on. As we get in new people on staff we will definitely ensure that this idea of communication both ways is presented as something that has to happen and has to be improved.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

Mikau said:


> Sorry, but no, this is a bad idea, Dragoneer. Merging with a website that's mostly unknown to us on FA? Hell, why not add a merge with Pounced while you're at it? Or how about The Rabbit Hole, and maybe even F-List, to boot?
> 
> The point is: Website merging is not a hot idea at all. Leave the two sites as-is.


Gavin/Daemonshyai may be unknown to most of FA, but he's well known in the community. He's the registration director at FurFright, assists with FA United and has previously expressed interest in coding. Saying "he's/it's unknown to us" is not a good excuse. We need to move the site forward, get a better administration team put together and get new ideas in the team to improve. I've worked with them for years, and Furocity is not an unknown element to the community. 

And technically, we could pull in the guys from Pounced. They're literally about 20 miles down the road from where I am. =P

The point is, I recognize where my shortcomings are and I understand the kind of people I need to get where we're going. Where we need to be. And I'm taking the action I need to get us there. Not everybody may agree with the what's or the why's, but if I only went with people/sites who are known or popular... well, we wouldn't get too far.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

Winds said:


> All I'm concerned with is how long this will take to dissolve and send both sites down the drain.


 Fur Affinity has survived hackings, rogue admins, leaks, DDOS assaults, ninjas, catastrophic hardware failure, being hit by lightning, more ninjas and a slew of other horrors. This is not going to be what kills the site.


----------



## Pine (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of new murry-purry idiots get into drama with the regulars. Maybe this is what FAF needs, _more_ drama.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Jul 14, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Fur Affinity has survived hackings, rogue admins, leaks, DDOS assaults, ninjas, catastrophic hardware failure, being hit by lightning, more ninjas and a slew of other horrors. This is not going to be what kills the site.


 This.

And with all of that, it's still got some nice up-time stats. 97%, or what was it?


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> went with people/sites who are known or popular... well, we wouldn't get too far.


were not getting far as it is now hopefully this stuff will actually be put in place right because puzzle pieces are missplaced, and these new pieces will actually fit to make this whole puzzle finally.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Fur Affinity has survived hackings, rogue admins, leaks, DDOS assaults, ninjas, catastrophic hardware failure, being hit by lightning, more ninjas and a slew of other horrors. This is not going to be what kills the site.


yah never know anything can happen.


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> And with all of that, it's still got some nice up-time stats. 97%, or what was it?


 
97% uptime is p mediocre-to-low-grade in hosting really


----------



## Azure (Jul 14, 2011)

Oh man haha. Can of worms. Can't wait to see this go down.


----------



## FyrenD (Jul 14, 2011)

As someone using a wierd custom OS thingie ^,,^;
Uhm...Will the FA interface stay? It works fine in my browser
I think this wierd web browser was considered the equal of "IE5" whatever that is ^,,^;;


----------



## raptonx (Jul 14, 2011)

Just love how people panic over this.


----------



## Spottycat (Jul 14, 2011)

Mikau said:


> Merging with a website that's mostly unknown to us on FA? Hell, why not add a merge with Pounced while you're at it? Or how about The Rabbit Hole, and maybe even F-List, to boot?


At least I've heard of Pounced, Rabbit Hole and F-List.
----

If you guys are just merging administration and cross promotion, probably should have just said that instead of leaving it so broad.  Pretty sure the first things people thought was 1. What the hell is Furocity and 2. Am I going to fight to keep my username?   It could be helpful to add clarifying notes to the original post so these things are lined out and crystal clear in order to get people to relax a little before they delve into the thread.

To be honest, when I heard `merger` and saw Furocity's site, the only thing I got excited about was "Hey!  Maybe we'll get usergroups finally." but now it sounds like databases aren't being merged or anything of that sort either anyhow...  so..   yeah.   If it's just more admins and mods, then there's very little reason for most of us to even be informed about this stuff...


----------



## Chronidu (Jul 14, 2011)

I won't lie, I don't see what the uproar is about 8|  Are people just desperate for something to be upset about, or are there any actual real issues with FA becoming partners with Furocity.


----------



## Fay V (Jul 14, 2011)

Actually I'm quite glad something is being done. We needed more admins and coders and we indeed have them. I am personally carefully optimistic.


----------



## 2ndVenus (Jul 14, 2011)

Dont rly care much bout beastiality, human porn and furry porn is allowed on here, and i dont care if 2 are 'drawn' together as its not real meterial. But i agree on keeping the no-cub rule. Beast ART is not written clear in uk law...however,

being that i and many of us are in the UK we must obide by the law, if cub-pron gets turned back on, we sadly would not be allowed to stay on this site.

The UK fur-population would be at risk, please keep us in mind. <3


----------



## Mcwerefoxx (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Negative. Daemonshyai and myself are both US citizens.


 
Actually it has nothing to do with where the Admins are from, or located, Each person must follow the laws of their own nation/current location. Where the Incorporated Entity is located is the only thing that counts for what the site policies are limited to.  Ferrox Art LLC is incorporated in the US if I am not mistaken.


Ex: If you live in the UK you must follow US and UK Laws in regards to the site.
If you live in Germany, where Nazi stuff is banned, don't go looking at Nazi furs.

Though generally people know that already, I was just clarifying.


----------



## Teelie (Jul 14, 2011)

Chronidu said:


> I won't lie, I don't see what the uproar is about 8|  Are people just desperate for something to be upset about, or are there any actual real issues with FA becoming partners with Furocity.


 
Probably just looking for something to be offended over. It's been my experience that typically the less people know about something the more they find it is going to be this major upheavel of death and destruction to their lives (or so they think).


----------



## LeverPuller (Jul 14, 2011)

"...but together we feel together we will..."

Oh please just fix this one thing.
No real opinion on the rest except my first thought was "Cool." :I

Yay thank you. ; ;


----------



## Spottycat (Jul 14, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Actually I'm quite glad something is being done. We needed more admins and coders and we indeed have them. I am personally carefully optimistic.


 
If the only thing being merged is admins, mods and coders, so both sites can see some development - then cool.  Cross promotion is also cool, and makes plenty of sense.  Hell, being able to log in at one site and browse/post/comment on the other would even be cool -  able to submit/journal on your site of orgin, since your Username is registered there, but being able to comment and watch for new submissions/journals by people made on either site (with obvious prefixes/suffixes for your username saying where you're from if you're visiting a site other than the one you registered with.)


----------



## FyrenD (Jul 14, 2011)

I'll be happy as long as I can still get on here without having to jump between computers for the site to work right, that's why I left deviantArt, they did something to how the site worked and suddenly I was able to start a page loading, go to work for 8 hours, and come home in time to see a "No memory"(?) error box appear ^,,^;;;


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> This.
> 
> And with all of that, it's still got some nice up-time stats. 97%, or what was it?


Nope. we've never gone below.







This is the site's entire history of outages/downtime since we started recording April 1st, 2010. There's a lot of micro-outages, and the number of downtime records anything from genuine offline time, maintenance, etc. The outages and downtime including the hacking from December + the DDOS attacks. Factor all that in it's not really that bad. Could be better, but we've weathered some severe storms and still come out 99%+.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2011)

2ndVenus said:


> Dont rly care much bout beastiality, human porn and furry porn is allowed on here, and i dont care if 2 are 'drawn' together as its not real meterial. But i agree on keeping the no-cub rule. Beast ART is not written clear in uk law...however,
> 
> being that i and many of us are in the UK we must obide by the law, if cub-pron gets turned back on, we sadly would not be allowed to stay on this site.
> 
> The UK fur-population would be at risk, please keep us in mind. <3


......
This has already been addressed numerous times on different pages.


----------



## LizardKing (Jul 14, 2011)

I see you've changed it to "joining forces" here and in the admin notice on FA, but Fender's post in the news section still says merger.

Hopefully that'll be the end of the "OMG THEY'RE MERGING?!" posts.


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

Since reading is hard:

*The two sites will remain the same for the foreseeable future. The change is that FA and Furocity will share staff.*

Just link to this post when someone starts the rampant unfounded speculation machine again


----------



## Granny (Jul 14, 2011)

so wait a bunch of people made furocity accounts while they were having a severe outage here on FA if i recall correctly

if the merge includes bringing furocity accounts over to FA then that means a bunch of people are going to have extra accounts they don't need, or in my case have even completely forgotten about. are you guys going to do anything about that if it is the case or are all the furocity-only users going to have to make new accounts and start over?

and is this merger going to have some impact on the release of that new user interface you've been promising us for so long?

and what about staffing? furaffinity is already so bloated in terms of userbase, so merging with furocity is just going to bring in more people. are the administrators of furocity going to keep their power and help out furaffinity or are they just gonna be dropped?

also this merger might end up causing even more security/stability problems. i only know what i've heard about furaffinity's coding and i don't know jack about furocity's. are you guys planning on making any real SOLID promises on that one? with all due respect, my faith in furaffinity's security has been shaken more than once.

as for a straight up opinion i'm more curious than excited for or against the merger, but i'll probably throw a fit just like everyone else if it ends up not turning out for the better.

and to echo a comment a lot of people have already made, it seems strange that furocity of all places is who you're merging with.people went over there when FA was down and left as soon as it came back up. why this website, of all the other furry art websites you could have proposed a merger with?


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 14, 2011)

Granny said:


> so wait a bunch of people made furocity accounts while they were having a severe outage here on FA if i recall correctly
> 
> if the merge includes bringing furocity accounts over to FA then that means a bunch of people are going to have extra accounts they don't need, or in my case have even completely forgotten about. are you guys going to do anything about that if it is the case or are all the furocity-only users going to have to make new accounts and start over?
> 
> ...


 
As it stands FA and Furocity is not merging completely into one site. We are however sharing resources and staff as sort of a mutual benefit if you want to call it that.


----------



## Zentrin (Jul 14, 2011)

Interesting.... I don't mean to compare this union with something in real life but there is something to be said that I do see regularly in the real life military.

Sure Generals and high ranking officials get along in all branches of the military. But in reality the marine corps don't get along with the army, which don't get along with the air force, which don't get along with the navy. Even when working together it never mixes well. There is always this substance that stands between them all.

I don't know what furocity is and I don't use it. FA is literally all I use. What will the physical changes be like on the website? I like it the way it is. But I suppose if the administrators are doing this we have to remember it is their website. What choice do we really have as far as the decision making behind the people responsable for the site. All we can do is follow it and see what happens or move on.... I honestly like FA now the way it is


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

Granny said:


> if the merge includes bringing furocity accounts over to FA then that means a bunch of people are going to have extra accounts they don't need, or in my case have even completely forgotten about. are you guys going to do anything about that if it is the case or are all the furocity-only users going to have to make new accounts and start over?
> 
> and is this merger going to have some impact on the release of that new user interface you've been promising us for so long?
> 
> and what about staffing? furaffinity is already so bloated in terms of userbase, so merging with furocity is just going to bring in more people. are the administrators of furocity going to keep their power and help out furaffinity or are they just gonna be dropped?


 
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...ining-Forces?p=2618911&viewfull=1#post2618911


----------



## Littledoll (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm actually glad to see that work is being done to better the site. Now to see how well it goes.


----------



## Accountability (Jul 14, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Nope. we've never gone below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, Pingdom doesn't take into account things like the times earlier this year when 503 errors would display for hours, when most users do. 



Sciggles said:


> Have YOU donated lately? The only donations they  take are mail in. The rest comes from adds and Neer's pocket >:neutral:


 
This is arguably by choice, and this is where I'd give ideas, but Dragoneer already mentioned what I had in mind earlier in the thread.

That out of the way, I don't see a problem with all this, as long as communication improves and things actually start getting done. I don't agree with how this was first announced, "Merger" was a bad way to phrase it, and perhaps it would have been better to wait to announce it until everything that needs hammering out was hammered out. While this is probably a good thing for FA, the botched announcement seems to have confused a lot of people into thinking something terrible is about to happen. Perhaps a "Frequently Asked Questions about the partnership" could be posted to clear up people's doubts?


----------



## Panda_Driskal (Jul 14, 2011)

Mm, I am beginning to think this will be full of fail...

I'm sure joining the two powers would be a _good_ thing in the long run, but I hope you're easing us into it. Too many new rules, or two many newcomers might offset a lot of the current FurAffinity users. 

If the user population has a high increase, there might be more of the "running out of space" issue. That is to say, unless you're combining the memory/storage and servers of both sites?

I'm just saying, this is going to bring a lot of hate, and a lot of agreement.

I don't hate the idea, I'm just not sure how well it'll work.


----------



## Devious Bane (Jul 14, 2011)

Thread should be retitled "_The REAL Summer Update: FA merging with Furocity_"


----------



## Ta5tele55 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Furocity's got a really cool robo-vixen mascot. I wonder if this will make a robo-Fender..
> 
> http://en.wikifur.com/w/images/3/3d/Furocity.png


 
Heheh awesome.  I wonder if she would look good with a blue tie


----------



## sorryinSPACE (Jul 14, 2011)

Well hell, as long as we get more staff and stuff starts getting done, i'm a happy camper.


----------



## Rukh_Whitefang (Jul 14, 2011)

Panda_Driskal said:


> Mm, I am beginning to think this will be full of fail...
> 
> I'm sure joining the two powers would be a _good_ thing in the long run, but I hope you're easing us into it. Too many new rules, or two many newcomers might offset a lot of the current FurAffinity users.
> 
> ...



Does anyone read...The sites are not merging. Each place will keep its own website and the user database will be separate. Things will be shared across both entities. But its not like the sites are combining into one big one.


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 14, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> Zeke, I have respect for admins, WHEN they are properly doing their job, if I have issues with mods, I will PM them to talk so that our issues won't be made public. A good mod, in my opinion, will give warnings and investigate problems before taking drastic action. Communication is teh key here, not the lack thereof.


 


Trpdwarf said:


> As far as I know the current mods and admins do take the time to investigate issues and give warnings when necessary. We communicate plenty. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that the mods on FA or the Admins on the main side don't communicate and talk things out and look over evidence. The reality it is that is far from it and I wish people would stop introducing wishful thinking or speculation because they have axe to grind or may still be upset about past issues.
> 
> Now perhaps communication between mods/admins and the site itself needs some improvement and that is something that too is being talked about, discussed, and worked on. As we get in new people on staff we will definitely ensure that this idea of communication both ways is presented as something that has to happen and has to be improved.


 
I have seen as well as others, how mods play favorites with members. Many times w have seen admins pull art that is well within the TOS and AUP, yet leave art that clearly violates the TOS & AUP.  I won't mention names  but is seems that if an artist is popular, he/she/it can get away with violating the rules. I have seen artists who submit heavily censored underage art and linking their IB account that has the uncensored pic, have their clean and censored pics pulled and in some cases suspended for playing by the rules. I would love to see the admin teams both here and on the main site have a defined set of guidelines that they must follow when it comes to trouble tickets concerning art submissions, verifying that art submissions are following the TOS & AUP, as well as how to behave. Not to mention communication between admins. 

When it comes to the TOS & AUP, there needs to be a guideline that CLEARLY dictates what is and is not allowed, what the penalties are for violating the rules set down as the way the TOS & AUP stands, there is nothing that defines what violates the TOS & AUP (maybe visual examples to help clarify what is and is not allowed)


----------



## Melazzee (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah I have no idea what Furocity is, but awesome news anyways


----------



## Armaetus (Jul 14, 2011)

I will be happy IF this _actually gets shit done_ codewise to plug up all those holes that Eevee has mentioned so many times.


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 14, 2011)

signed up on Furocity. expected it a free site then see upgrades for profile. Free users don't get ANYTHING good. I will never in my life pay to be a member of a website then use my money to buy art.


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## NennaMeerkat (Jul 14, 2011)

I am intrigued.  And as long as I can continue to post my stories with its range of various fetishes and non-furry cast (at times) then I am more than willing to try out this new site.  FA has been about the only place I can post my work...all of my work...and I want that to continue.  I will be a very sad meerkat if I have to limit what I write because of new site rules.

Hopefully this other site can understand the difference between art and real life like FA does.

Also as long as these new admins can be trusted NOT to screw up the site, or screw with it, then good to have new admins.  However I have seen in the past where someone "trusted" came in and deliberately screwed everything up on the site before vanishing back to their original site.


----------



## CoonArt (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Errr... is this a GOOD thing or a BAD thing? If it's a GOOD thing then we could become the biggest on the internet! If it's BAD... I dunno... It's bad then...


----------



## Syntex (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



sunwolfholland said:


> Errr... is this a GOOD thing or a BAD thing? If it's a GOOD thing then we could become the biggest on the internet! If it's BAD... I dunno... It's bad then...


 
not even close to being the biggest site on the internet........


----------



## Gavrill (Jul 14, 2011)

Joining the "not sure if want" crowd but if improves the current coding and modding, then hell, sign me up.


----------



## Growly (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Just as long as Furocity's strange rules regarding porn aren't enforced on FA. I like freedom to post what I like.


----------



## Stargazer Bleu (Jul 14, 2011)

Hope it turns out to be good. I am willing to give it a chance tho I am still skeptical about it.

One of my biggest concerns is, will we have to pay a a membership when all is combined?


----------



## Fay V (Jul 14, 2011)

alright, problem solved, back to the topic at hand.



Stargazer Bleu said:


> Hope it turns out to be good. I am willing to give it a chance tho I am still skeptical about it.
> 
> One of my biggest concerns is, will we have to pay a a membership when all is combined?



probably not, we're combining staff, not the actual sites


----------



## LexGoyle (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm not so sure how I feel about this. Especially when new rules are going to be put in to place. One thing I'm not a fan of is censorship or restrictions to a reasonable extent. I was against the No Cub porn ban for the simple argument ... they're just drawings of FICTIONAL characters. While not needing to rehash that issue and why that rule was implemented I worry about what other content will be restricted as a result of this "merger." If that "No bestiality" rule means no RL photos/video of humans with animals, then sure I get it. But I suppose I worry that will end up being a restriction on the art displayed on FA. that's one thing I feel FA has done reasonably decent with is not really restricting the content of art so much where most other sites do so including mere drawings of acts others find offensive. Some furry getting rammed by a quadraped realistic style horse, may not exactly my cup of tea but I can choose not to view images I do not agree with. Sure accidents happen.  Oh well. 

Basically, I just worry what these tighter rules are gonna end up being and if FA gets too big, then what? I see Furocity has a "premium" account feature, not a good thing in my opinion. Their bestiality rule is quite vague and with the way it's worded basically says anything that walks on all fours in a sexual situation is not allowed. Under that rule alone that would technically give them power to prohibit submissions of non anthro style dragons or canines, horses, bulls, and so on. With the way another rule regarding depictions of illegal activities such as rape, that would eliminate the non-consensual art. Kinda can't forget this is all just fantasy art and shy of the rule of no cub porn FA has been a nice place to find pretty much anything you want in a nice organized fashion that doesn't disappear because some thread isn't constantly bumped.  Some admins and companies seem to have this idea that a drawing of something that would otherwise be illegal is illegal in of itself. Please just remember when you are hashing out the revised rules why FA has been so greatly successful in being an open and free minded community. Those who find content offensive should not dictate what can be posted when like those who try to get TV shows banned forget they can simply "change the channel" or in this case, ignore the pic and the user's gallery since it's not being forced in your face  

Anyway, thanks for reading!


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

LexGoyle said:


> I'm not so sure how I feel about this. Especially when new rules are going to be put in to place. One thing I'm not a fan of is censorship or restrictions to a reasonable extent. I was against the No Cub porn ban for the simple argument ... they're just drawings of FICTIONAL characters. While not needing to rehash that issue and why that rule was implemented I worry about what other content will be restricted as a result of this "merger." If that "No bestiality" rule means no RL photos/video of humans with animals, then sure I get it. But I suppose I worry that will end up being a restriction on the art displayed on FA. that's one thing I feel FA has done reasonably decent with is not really restricting the content of art so much where most other sites do so including mere drawings of acts others find offensive. Some furry getting rammed by a quadraped realistic style horse, may not exactly my cup of tea but I can choose not to view images I do not agree with. Sure accidents happen.  Oh well.
> 
> Basically, I just worry what these tighter rules are gonna end up being and if FA gets too big, then what? I see Furocity has a "premium" account feature, not a good thing in my opinion. Their bestiality rule is quite vague and with the way it's worded basically says anything that walks on all fours in a sexual situation is not allowed. Under that rule alone that would technically give them power to prohibit submissions of non anthro style dragons or canines, horses, bulls, and so on. With the way another rule regarding depictions of illegal activities such as rape, that would eliminate the non-consensual art. Kinda can't forget this is all just fantasy art and shy of the rule of no cub porn FA has been a nice place to find pretty much anything you want in a nice organized fashion that doesn't disappear because some thread isn't constantly bumped.  Some admins and companies seem to have this idea that a drawing of something that would otherwise be illegal is illegal in of itself. Please just remember when you are hashing out the revised rules why FA has been so greatly successful in being an open and free minded community. Those who find content offensive should not dictate what can be posted when like those who try to get TV shows banned forget they can simply "change the channel" or in this case, ignore the pic and the user's gallery since it's not being forced in your face
> 
> Anyway, thanks for reading!


 
I'm just going to keep this link open in textedit for the next few days for ease of copying


----------



## GamerD (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Hmm never heard of them either..


----------



## Growly (Jul 14, 2011)

Okay, after reading more of this thread, I have to say the announcement is confusing and poorly written.

A simple _resource_ merger is a big deal to the admins running the site, but to the userbase, it will be pretty much invisible. So this isn't "one of the biggest [announcements] in FA history", and because the announcement post was so ambiguous, you're upsetting a lot of people because they don't understand what's going on. And your selective answering of comments is only adding to people's alarm.
I think the point needs to be stressed in the original posting that you're merely sharing admins and the site has a new co-owner.


----------



## GreenReaper (Jul 14, 2011)

Personally I'd be interested to know whether Gavin got any of the rights of co-ownership to go along with the responsibilities - though it's not really anyone's business but the directors of Ferrox Art, LLC.


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

Growly said:


> Okay, after reading more of this thread, I have to say the announcement is confusing and poorly written.
> 
> A simple _resource_ merger is a big deal to the admins running the site, but to the userbase, it will be pretty much invisible. So this isn't "one of the biggest [announcements] in FA history", and because the announcement post was so ambiguous, you're upsetting a lot of people because they don't understand what's going on. And your selective answering of comments is only adding to people's alarm.
> I think the point needs to be stressed in the original posting that you're merely sharing admins and the site has a new co-owner.


 
Seconded.

But I wouldn't say that this change will be nearly invisible to the users in the long run - hopefully with the new talented coding staff we'll get some good upgrades and changes much much sooner, not to mention administrative things FA-side will be speedier. Long-term big deal, not short-term. And yeah, that should be stressed.


----------



## timoran (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> I learned my lesson


 
After all, you never make the same mistake more than seventeen times.


----------



## Deo (Jul 14, 2011)

Okay, I waited to post until I strolled through Furocity to see what it was. And it's just a giant dump of roleplay character profiles so far as I can see. Tell, me of what value is listings of roleplay characters to FA? I'm all for fresh coders and more mods, I'd even welcome a bestiality ban. But turning FA, the leading furry ART site into a LOLwulfabooRP site is saddening, and I hope that this combining of forces does not lead to such a thing. Furocity also has "blogs" which are the equivalent of FA's user journals, and just as ill-written. So FA has a better user interface for showing/holding/idfk with art, has the same user journal capability, and lacks the useless pile ups of long forgotten lists of character stats for long dead RP characters.... hmmm... What benefit is there in this again? Oh right, possible new coders and mods. Worth it? Possibly.


EDIT: The obvious was obvious and blatantly stated time and time again, the sites are not changing or meshing into one site.


----------



## Cyril (Jul 14, 2011)

They're sharing mods and coding. I think the thread went over that point several times, but the announcement is decidedly vague.


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## LexGoyle (Jul 14, 2011)

Aden, Interesting. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing but okay


----------



## timoran (Jul 14, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> The point is, I recognize where my shortcomings are and I understand the kind of people I need to get where we're going. Where we need to be. And I'm taking the action I need to get us there. Not everybody may agree with the what's or the why's, but if I only went with people/sites who are known or popular... well, we wouldn't get too far.


 
So did you realize this just recently or four years ago when you should've?


----------



## keeshah (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> Several of their mods/admins may be coming over. I believe we have confirmation on two so far.
> 
> And the Summer Update will not be affected by this.
> 
> ...


 
This policy had better NOT be touched on FA,  things are repressive enough.  
Furry doesn't need a resurgent of the Burned furs.  
(if you can't  draw like the top 10% of artists you shouldn't post it.)
(You must draw human bits on everything, else it's bestiality.)
(if you draw animal cock, you must be an animal rapist!) 

We don't need this stuff being dragged into FA.   No way, No how! 

PS.  also need a disagree/dislike with this post button to go with the like one.


----------



## Wrathling (Jul 14, 2011)

To be honest. I'm not sure how I feel. I'm still stuck in between if this would be a great idea or not.. I really hope they'll use the no bestiality rule, but that would rule out a lot of users.
I'll just have to wait and see how things go and hopefully this is for the better.


----------



## Zodiac (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Thaily said:


> Furocity is a site that predates FA


 
Indeed.

I don't think any amount of convincing will make me happy about this.  I liked my furocity being separate from FA. And if they plan on merging the websites, they are then going to have to merge accounts and account names somehow, which i will also be unhappy about.

Thumbs down on this one.


----------



## timoran (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zodiac said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I don't think any amount of convincing will make me happy about this.  I liked my furocity being separate from FA. And if they plan on merging the websites, they are then going to have to merge accounts and account names somehow, which i will also be unhappy about.
> 
> Thumbs down on this one.


 

Or.
You could read the ONE Frequently Asked Question on the original post.


----------



## Delta (Jul 14, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Fur Affinity has survived hackings, rogue admins, leaks, DDOS assaults, ninjas, catastrophic hardware failure, being hit by lightning, more ninjas and a slew of other horrors. This is not going to be what kills the site.


 
A castle is much more resilient than its occupants.


----------



## Zodiac (Jul 14, 2011)

What exactly did you expect for free that you don't get?


----------



## Zodiac (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



timoran said:


> Or.
> You could read the ONE Frequently Asked Question on the original post.


 
Sorr-ee. I had the page open from before I left for work and didn't refresh it when i replied.


----------



## Bobskunk (Jul 14, 2011)

Instead of self-flagellation over how difficult it is to correct multiple people after they've read a PR release, why not amend the first post in the thread to be more clear?  You say "why can't people read," but the actual form of this 'merger' doesn't come out until somewhere along page five, and that's after someone had to ask Dragoneer what this really meant.  That doesn't belong on page five, that belongs in the initial release.  I see that the OP was amended at the end, but that should have been considered before the announcement was written up.  Before that addition, the expectation was to read through a few hundred posts to find out what's really going on, with most of THAT posting being completely reactionary noise drowning out whatever signal there is, making in-thread clarification practically useless.  See also: the demolition order of Arthur Dent's house.

The problem is not that people "don't read," they're reading it and finding it vague enough to go all paranoid.  They read "merger" just fine, and interpreted it like most people would interpret it.  Turns out, "merge" wasn't the right word to use, but it was still used to describe what was happening.  That was fixed in the site announcement, and it was tacked onto the bottom of this thread, but..  The announcement still amounts to "we're working together to do a thing and this synergy will be better for us both to go beyond the impossible p.s. we kept this a secret for a year."  It doesn't say what will actually happen, and the most specific thing is practically afterthought.  If the announcement stays as is, there should be other FAQ style things, like "Q: What about FA will change for me?" "A: FA will have more staff to deal with tickets, and policies X, Y and Z will/will not change."

PR-wise, you really have to make sure the first thing they read is clear and accurate.  If you keep having to correct people after they've read your release, you've had a PR failure.  Corrections and clarification made in a place where most users aren't going to read might as well not count- it has to be up front.  Otherwise, you're either letting people get confused and practically begging for rumors or wasting your time correcting perceptions on an individual basis.  This is on top of the problem of more people reading the announcement and also getting confused, so you have an endless line of people who don't know what you mean and didn't read what you mean because it's apparently not important enough to be in the first post.  That's a waste of everyone's time- them panicking and staff correcting them.  The actual partnership isn't the problem, since most people stop hyperventilating and go 'oh' when they understand, it's the announcement.

A year of super secret talks over a fairly simple yaff site alliance and this is how it turns out?  seinfeldleavingtheater.gif


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Zodiac said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I don't think any amount of convincing will make me happy about this.  I liked my furocity being separate from FA. And if they plan on merging the websites, they are then going to have to merge accounts and account names somehow, which i will also be unhappy about.
> 
> Thumbs down on this one.


 
We really do need to just put this in bold in the first post


----------



## Silvernova (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

Hey, I have an idea.  Is it possible to add a filter into the forums where you can only view the posts from admins/mods/staff?  Because it'd be awesome to narrow down 19 pages worth of bickering, rumors, and bullshit and just be able to read what the staff actually said.


----------



## Ozzy_the_Roo (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

may be good in regards to size and hell perhaps the fur community as a whole will grow...
but i am not sure if want...but, may turn out epic :3


----------



## Gothhana (Jul 14, 2011)

This is amazing, I hope you guys can merge my username and watchers and stuff. 

I love furocity and FA. furocity has a better layout, but i like the fave option of FA. i'm curious to see how it comes together.

It'd be cool if you had the fave option and the option for ratings on there as well.
Either way it'll be fun and awesome.


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## Bobskunk (Jul 14, 2011)

^^^ This is what happens.  The announcement is still unclear, and the FAQ part is so small that it almost looks like part of a signature.  It should be bolded or something at the very least.  Made with GIANT FONT.  Call attention to the fact that the sites are staying separate, or you'll keep dealing with people thinking the sites are being combined into one! :c

vvv After a certain point, especially if so many people are getting the wrong idea or reading it incorrectly, there's a _slight possibility_ that the problem is not reading comprehension but.. writing... comprehendibility....  :V


----------



## serpenttao (Jul 14, 2011)

The last few posts were semi-rages about usernames and merges. Read the initial posts people; the websites aren't going to merge, no people are transferring so there's no problem with the usernames nor the UI changing. The sites will stay separate, only the "Behind-the-screens" are changing.


----------



## marirosa (Jul 14, 2011)

I like seeing change and innovation. When it comes to web stuff, always gotta stay on top of things, especially in functionality and streamline. I'd love to see what happens. 
I'm disappointed in people who just like to find something to whine bitch & moan about. You FA webmasters who have built this from the ground up and put so much dedication, time, money and effort into keeping this site running and I'm pleased to see it running for so long and continuing to grow. Yet people are still ungrateful...the moment they hear anything about change they loose their minds... Good luck and hope for the best.


----------



## dragonlover81 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*

I am a premium member of DeviantArt; I was a non-premium member for about six months before I upgraded. I like some of the features allowed on the premium membership, such as polls and advanced critique (I have never actually used the latter). I actually considered either deactivating my DeviantArt account or simply not logging in anymore when I found out that viruses were spreading through banner ads on the site; this was a factor in my decision to upgrade (for those who do not use DeviantArt, a premium membership over there costs about $30 per year if paid annually; it is a bit more if you pay in shorter increments). I got Windows Recovery Virus in May and had to take my computer in for repairs; I believe this came from MegaUpload, which makes DeviantArt seem like Fort Knox by comparison.

DeviantArt has not impressed me in terms of overall site security. It is very bug ridden. They also have a nasty habit of creating secret rules, secret exceptions (everyone thinks a submission is a TOS violation but it isn't because of something they refuse to mention in the rather lengthy FAQ section) and in some cases just not enforcing stuff. I have heard staff members over there (especially one named chix0r) make fun of people's concerns. One of the administrators once said that the de minimus provision of copyright law means that small works are not covered. I have seen users over there get dozens of obviously stolen submissions deleted with no other penalty and then just submit more stolen stuff. Because of this, a lot of groups have popped up devoted to dealing with copyright, and the response from administrators has apparently been to tell them to stop harassing art thieves. They do, however, have some features I like that are not available here, such as categorising favorites and, for premium members, polls and advanced critique.

I haven't used LiveJounral since about 2004 and my account over there may be under an e-mail account that no longer exists. I don't know anything about premium accounts over there. I've never used Furocity so I am not familiar with their premium accounts either. However, I like the idea of offering premium accounts. Requiring premium accounts might scare people off, but I doubt anyone will quit over them being brought into existences, unless this corresponds with some sort of downgrade in features on the free account, like, say, requiring a premium account to view certain content (DeviantArt does not do this).

I don't know how many users will opt for premium accounts; it will depend in large part on the features and cost. The percentage using premium accounts on DeviantArt is apparently large, though I cannot provide precise numbers. This may, however, be because of the site's poor security.


----------



## marirosa (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dragonlover81 said:


> I am a premium member of DeviantArt; I was a non-premium member for about six months before I upgraded. I like some of the features allowed on the premium membership, such as polls and advanced critique (I have never actually used the latter). I actually considered either deactivating my DeviantArt account or simply not logging in anymore when I found out that viruses were spreading through banner ads on the site; this was a factor in my decision to upgrade (for those who do not use DeviantArt, a premium membership over there costs about $30 per year if paid annually; it is a bit more if you pay in shorter increments). I got Windows Recovery Virus in May and had to take my computer in for repairs; I believe this came from MegaUpload, which makes DeviantArt seem like Fort Knox by comparison.
> 
> DeviantArt has not impressed me in terms of overall site security. It is very bug ridden. They also have a nasty habit of creating secret rules, secret exceptions (everyone thinks a submission is a TOS violation but it isn't because of something they refuse to mention in the rather lengthy FAQ section) and in some cases just not enforcing stuff. I have heard staff members over there (especially one named chix0r) make fun of people's concerns. One of the administrators once said that the de minimus provision of copyright law means that small works are not covered. I have seen users over there get dozens of obviously stolen submissions deleted with no other penalty and then just submit more stolen stuff. Because of this, a lot of groups have popped up devoted to dealing with copyright, and the response from administrators has apparently been to tell them to stop harassing art thieves. They do, however, have some features I like that are not available here, such as categorising favorites and, for premium members, polls and advanced critique.
> 
> ...


 

Who said anything about premium accounts? What does DA have to do with FA? Why is this even a concern?


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

He left the thread open from a while ago without considering he should refresh and see what was said. Thus the subject line being the old title.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dragonlover81 said:


> stuff


 
I have said in the past that I would get a membership if it ment I was going to get something cool out of it, as well as bringing the site more money. If this becomes available I would expect the following:

Unlimited upload 
A premium tag
A commission bar
Polls
Extras like you can add different boxes to fill with different things
A gallery set up IE folders to put your stuff in
A friends list rather than a watch list so I can keep up with everyone without my inbox getting 2374923874293874 messages based on submissions.

What I would like fixed:
When someone deletes something for it to not show up in my inbox- I hate it and it is annoying.
The commission thing because I hate rifling through journals or asking an artist to only be rudely insulted and denied.
A report button because filing a TT is more work that it is worth IMO

If the new merger does anything at least share ideas because that is how FA is going to grow.


----------



## dragonlover81 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Clayton said:


> Why worry about removing things when you don't even know if it's going to happen?


 
I don't know about you, but I don't usually wait for something to happen before worrying about it. Also, I seem to remember Dragoneer saying that the site is working on AUP changes.


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

Bobskunk said:


> ^^^ This is what happens.  The announcement is still unclear, and the FAQ part is so small that it almost looks like part of a signature.  It should be bolded or something at the very least.  Made with GIANT FONT.  Call attention to the fact that the sites are staying separate, or you'll keep dealing with people thinking the sites are being combined into one! :c


 
I hope Dragoneer doesn't mind, but since he's not here and this whole thing is getting out of hand I just rewrote the last paragraph of the OP and bolded it. The announcement doesn't look as pretty anymore, but hopefully this'll clear up the thread a bit.


----------



## lionsilverwolf (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dinosaurdammit said:


> I have said in the past that I would get a membership if it ment I was going to get something cool out of it, as well as bringing the site more money. If this becomes available I would expect the following:
> 
> Unlimited upload
> A premium tag
> ...


 
I would be willing as well. Bolded for emphasis.

Also, I opened this thread when the announcement was made, went to bed and read through 19 pages of a lot of nothing. I am satisfied with the current level of information we have been provided and can see only good coming from this, especially if it involves any sort of house-cleaning regarding bans and mods, TOS and all related content.

I do think that the original announcement could have been far better worded but in the previous pages every question I had has been answered satisfactorily. 

*THANK YOU*


----------



## VioletTiger (Jul 14, 2011)

To be honest, a merger would be pretty cool, and a great incentive for contests and fun.  Sure keep both sites seperated if you want, but create something huge and new, something that could rival DeviantArt, with better rules, contests, events, a shop, etcetera.

I just think if you claim to be making a significant change, you should actually make something tremendous and significant to the fandom^^

Though i am only one user, why not make a site wide poll for both sites and ask what other users would think about such a huge movement in the fandom^^

Thats my two cents on that, however, Dragoneer, I really think it would be cool if FA would implement a shop.  FA shirts would be so cool!  A site shop that users could sell through would be intense! ^^


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Jul 14, 2011)

Just throwing in my own two cents...

What ever happened to having websites compete against one another?

If there are two sites merged together, then the competition between the two sites is voided, and the new site has less of a reason to innovate in terms of site design and structure, and it will have less of a reason to actually read the complaints of its users. Since everything becomes bigger, everything will be filled with more and more red tape, or will become so streamlined that it no longer deals with the needs of its clientele directly.


----------



## Panda_Driskal (Jul 14, 2011)

Rukh_Whitefang said:


> Does anyone read...The sites are not merging. Each place will keep its own website and the user database will be separate. Things will be shared across both entities. But its not like the sites are combining into one big one.


 
Oh, I read. I was asking them to clarify much more of this plan. I understood "Joining". I know they aren't "merging". I was simply stating if it was going to be an extremely good idea to integrate the user populations, together. Not merge them, just using their admins and forms of rules. 

I guess I should have tried to explain my PoV better, but, that's what happens when you think faster than you type. ^^;


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dragonlover81 said:


> I don't know about you, but I don't usually wait for something to happen before worrying about it. Also, I seem to remember Dragoneer saying that the site is working on AUP changes.


 
We are working on AUP changes, and have been for several months. These changes do no reflect anything that has do with Furocity's AUP. Much of it is clarification on certain things and a few things here and there than need to be done.


----------



## dragonlover81 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



GTHusky said:


> Me neither. I know that the majority of the Furry fandom is very respectful, and specially FA is one of the most respectful and like 97% troll and art theft free communities there is (unlike DA, for example). So IÂ´m concerned of what this merging might bring over to FA.



I agree totally about DeviantArt. I am an active member over there, and the administrators do not seem to take art theft seriously. There are about a dozen (perhaps more) groups devoted to the issue because of how badly it is handled. Someone will have dozens of obviously stolen images in their gallery, get reported, their gallery gets wiped, and then they just start posting it all again. I'm not familiar with Furocity, so I don't know if they have these issues. A lot of DeviantArt's problem is administrators who don't care. People over there sell pageviews and run scripts to add everything in sight to their favorites. Administrator realitysquared posted a journal stating that favorites, pageviews and the blocking system cannot be abused. There was a user who would announce that he was blocking people because they said they don't like coffee (he eventually got banned after spamming the pages of the administrators). A user got banned because his favorite generating script crashed the site. Also, according to DeviantArt, tracing isn't theft.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 14, 2011)

JesusFish said:


> Just throwing in my own two cents...
> 
> What ever happened to having websites compete against one another?
> 
> If there are two sites merged together, then the competition between the two sites is voided, and the new site has less of a reason to innovate in terms of site design and structure, and it will have less of a reason to actually read the complaints of its users. Since everything becomes bigger, everything will be filled with more and more red tape, or will become so streamlined that it no longer deals with the needs of its clientele directly.


 
In this case, it's more of a leg up for FA over some of it's other, more well-known and popular, competitors.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dragonlover81 said:


> I agree totally about DeviantArt. I am an active member over there, and the administrators do not seem to take art theft seriously. There are about a dozen (perhaps more) groups devoted to the issue because of how badly it is handled. Someone will have dozens of obviously stolen images in their gallery, get reported, their gallery gets wiped, and then they just start posting it all again. I'm not familiar with Furocity, so I don't know if they have these issues. A lot of DeviantArt's problem is administrators who don't care. People over there sell pageviews and run scripts to add everything in sight to their favorites. Administrator realitysquared posted a journal stating that favorites, pageviews and the blocking system cannot be abused. There was a user who would announce that he was blocking people because they said they don't like coffee (he eventually got banned after spamming the pages of the administrators). A user got banned because his favorite generating script crashed the site. Also, according to DeviantArt, tracing isn't theft.



I can tell you here that we do care. If we have a user who becomes guilty of art theft it is in the rules they get banned for 30 days after it is proven. Then if they commit it again it's a perm suspension. The thing is you have to prove it first, and often times when users start harrassing a person and they take it down before an admin get a chance to look it over it becomes problematic.


----------



## RTDragon (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dragonlover81 said:


> I agree totally about DeviantArt. I am an active member over there, and the administrators do not seem to take art theft seriously. There are about a dozen (perhaps more) groups devoted to the issue because of how badly it is handled. Someone will have dozens of obviously stolen images in their gallery, get reported, their gallery gets wiped, and then they just start posting it all again. I'm not familiar with Furocity, so I don't know if they have these issues. A lot of DeviantArt's problem is administrators who don't care. People over there sell pageviews and run scripts to add everything in sight to their favorites. Administrator realitysquared posted a journal stating that favorites, pageviews and the blocking system cannot be abused. There was a user who would announce that he was blocking people because they said they don't like coffee (he eventually got banned after spamming the pages of the administrators). A user got banned because his favorite generating script crashed the site. Also, according to DeviantArt, tracing isn't theft.


 
Not the mention the viruses that come from their ads this is why i had to start getting premium subscriptions because of it. But let's not forget the bases that are all over the place. DA really encouraged unoriginality of artists. There are so much bases a majority of them are traced that it's ridiculous along with the groups supporting it.


----------



## Accountability (Jul 14, 2011)

Aden said:


> I hope Dragoneer doesn't mind, but since he's not here and this whole thing is getting out of hand I just rewrote the last paragraph of the OP and bolded it. The announcement doesn't look as pretty anymore, but hopefully this'll clear up the thread a bit.


 
I think it needs to be in 60pt bold red flashing text with those blinking siren GIFs around it at this point.


----------



## Ben (Jul 14, 2011)

JesusFish said:


> Just throwing in my own two cents...
> 
> What ever happened to having websites compete against one another?
> 
> If there are two sites merged together, then the competition between the two sites is voided, and the new site has less of a reason to innovate in terms of site design and structure, and it will have less of a reason to actually read the complaints of its users. Since everything becomes bigger, everything will be filled with more and more red tape, or will become so streamlined that it no longer deals with the needs of its clientele directly.


 
Except there was never really any competition between the two. FA's closest competitors are SoFurry and InkBunny, and FA is currently running laps around those two as far as traffic goes. Believe me, as good as it is, Furocity merging with FA is by no means an end to competition.


----------



## NommingShark (Jul 14, 2011)

The only thing I wanna know is if this will take and change the activity of staff correcting things and doing updates and such on the main site. If it doesn't do that I fear then this may not be so good in my opinion. I mean updates we get one way or another but the problem taking care of members issues still seems to take forever.


----------



## Aden (Jul 14, 2011)

JesusFish said:


> If there are two sites merged together, then the competition between the two sites is voided, and the new site has less of a reason to innovate in terms of site design and structure


 
Because we know how much motivation that FA had to innovate before this, amirite


----------



## GreenReaper (Jul 14, 2011)

Ben said:


> Except there was never really any competition between the two. FA's closest competitors are SoFurry and InkBunny, and FA is currently running laps around those two as far as traffic goes. Believe me, as good as it is, Furocity merging with FA is by no means an end to competition.









Yeah. See the horizontal line at the bottom? That's where Furocity was when I graphed it.

(Caveat: Alexa kinda sucks. Threw e621 in because it's a competitor in terms of viewers, if not artists.)


----------



## Sladegurl (Jul 14, 2011)

Hrrmmm...hmmm... uhhh... mmm...
Not sure if want? I'ma go with that. On the fence all up in here.


----------



## dragonlover81 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



marirosa said:


> Who said anything about premium accounts? What does DA have to do with FA? Why is this even a concern?



The reason I brought it up is because Furocity has premium accounts and I thought the idea might be imported over here. I am not familiar with Furocity but I am very familiar with DeviantArt so I mentioned their premium accounts as an example. Actually, the comment was supposed to be a reply to something Dragoneer said way upthread about premium accounts and Deviant Art; if I had remembered to reply with quote rather than simply reply the relevance of this post would have been clearer. Here is what he said, on page 8 of the replies:

"I have no plans on directly changing the way that works any time soon.  But, I will say that /if/ we ever do subscriptions (read: if) it won't  be like DeviantArt. They make the site impossible to use unless you pay.  My theory is offer perks (ala LiveJournal).

But if we had planned to do subscriptions we'd have done them long ago." http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...ining-Forces?p=2618361&viewfull=1#post2618361


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## Torrijos-sama (Jul 14, 2011)

Ben said:


> Except there was never really any competition between the two. FA's closest competitors are SoFurry and InkBunny, and FA is currently running laps around those two as far as traffic goes. Believe me, as good as it is, Furocity merging with FA is by no means an end to competition.



No. It's just one more person out of the way. Eventually, more and more things will merge, until you only have two big sites, and a couple dozen, smaller sites. Think Cola wars, but with less innovation.



Aden said:


> Because we know how much motivation that FA had to innovate before this, amirite


 
I'm sure that agreeing with this statement is grounds for an arbitrary ban... So I abstain from any comment that denotes my actual opinions on the truth of this comment.

Also, i'm not saying that arbitrary bans ever occur on these forums... I'm just bringing up a hypothetical situation wherein a select group of people chooses to ban individuals not for violating the ToS, but just for having contrary opinions.


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## Lobar (Jul 14, 2011)

Well now we know why anyone with technical questions and critique had to suddenly be banned en masse, they might have put a damper on this announcement.


----------



## Garuru_Wolf (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Daemonshyai said:


> I suppose I really should throw my hat in the ring here, just to clear up as much as I possibly can.
> 
> First, the sites themselves are staying completely separate.  What we are doing is combining our respective resources.  FA will still be FA.  Furocity will still be Furocity.
> 
> ...


 
This all sounds great. Hopefully the staff can get along and get things done and not let egos get in the way.


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## Traediras (Jul 14, 2011)

How about a little analogy.

Take an old-ish car, a generic car with a (somewhat) crappy engine. From what I see, this collaboration between FA and Furocity is like replacing the old, crappy engine with a brand new Chevy V8. Or, if you don't know your cars, it'd be like replacing a crappy Intel Pentium processor with an Intel Sandybridge i7. Or even going from a single-core processor to dual-core.

That would essentially be the premise of this collaboration, ensuring much greater *efficiency* and *power* to boot, because the more staff, the better. Not everyone is going to agree with it, because chances are they're too busy fapping away and just assuming that FA is going to go south real quick. (Which, I'm sure we might have already established, but after reading 20-odd pages of things going in circles, I really don't know where the hell I am anymore~)

Anyway, good on Neer for taking initiative. I'm sure everyone will be expecting good to come out on this, and I trust the FA administration that it'll be done.


----------



## fwbrown61 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Cyril Daroun said:


> I didn't think of this until you said it, but I see it now and it's so true .-.



Well, sonofabitch. Have I missed my calling?

And here I was thinking I was going to have to
write for a living. Doh.

And I remain,


Trying that post as a song, <Crang! Clash! Crunch!> Oh wait, these are my bagpipes, lemme get my guitar, :- )

Fred Brown.

(Yes, yes, way off topic; see posts #197 and 201, mea culpa max)


----------



## Angelischiel (Jul 14, 2011)

Oi! People, calm down. Seriously. This is not the end of the world, though you may think it is. I think you(the offending parties that are getting outrageously upset), need to calm down and just chill out. This is an online community, which is like a Hydra. As much as one would think that cutting off a head, would make it die, that's not that case. No matter how many users drop from Furaffinity, it will still exist. Unless somehow you manage to get ALL of the users(staff included) to quit, you have no true way of ending this site. 

Merger or co-op, this doesn't matter. The fact is, FA is going to be attaining new staff. You should all just shut up(once again directed at those complaining) and put up with it. Because guess what? The issues that people have, tickets not being answered and the like, will be taken care of. As a general rule, when Admins make a decision it's best as a member to take it. Admins are like parents, they don't have to make their reasons fully known to you. You as a member are supposed to listen to them. But as I've noticed with recent generations, that isn't the case. Just rest assured that your admin and his team are doing this because it's what they feel is best. 

They shouldn't have to ask your opinion about every little decision that they make. Take this as you will, I'm just speaking out my opinion on the situation. 

Generally as a rule, in the past, when I am Admining or moderating on a large forum or website of any sort, I do not ask the users permission or opinions for site matters that they do not need to know about. This is because they are not the ones doing all the work to keep the site going. The job of an Admin, or any sort of staff member, is a very laborious task. They do this because they care about how the site runs. You as a member shouldn't complain, or gripe, or bitch, because it's not a decision you may or may not like. 

If you are going to complain about how the site is run, then maybe you should consider why you are here. You are a member of a forum, that means your sole task is to be a member on that forum. Putting forward a few ideas here and there, that may or may not be helpful, is a useful thing. But remember that you as a member, a singular member, do not hold sway over a whole forum. Keep this in mind, the next time you decide to complain about something the staff is doing.

Take the time out of your day, to try and even do a tenth of what they have to do. Most of you that are complaining, have never been staff or administration on a forum. I have eleven years of experience as a Administrator and Staff member on forums. Having run many of my own roleplaying sites, and even having gotten a small Online gaming community going. None of this is relevant in the long run, as I am just a normal member on Furaffinity. But honestly, that does give you some insight as to why I am speaking the way I am. 

Act like the adults you are, and stop complaining that the staff is not running the site the way that *you* want it to be run. 

Feel free to comment on my post however you will, but I for one support this decision. Because it's a good one, and if you think that I'm supporting it to be contrary to the masses then you have a serious problem. Do as you will, let it harm none. That's my motto.


For those of you who are afraid of large posts, the TL: DR version:

Shut up, stop complaining. Be adults, and shut your pie holes. For those of you that aren't complaining, thank you. :3 You make the lives of your administration so much easier.


Have a lovely day.


----------



## Shadow (Jul 14, 2011)

I hope this will fix the broken moderating team that frolics about the main FA site playing favoritism. I've seen it and I believe, though this isn't law being a site, justice is blind and by association so should those who moderate know where to draw the line. I recall a certain _feline_ relating to _summer_ telling me of a few rules but being unable to pull up said rules other than saying "that's the way it is." I'm willing to understand, but I prefer appropriate referencing rather than verbal/textual tidbits.

Also, regarding this issue, I sent you *two notes* on the main site, Dragoneer. Last I checked when I sent those in March earlier this year, not only did you not read them based on their appearance in my outbox, you never responded.

Update: I just checked on FA, you STILL haven't read them. Please tell me you didn't go out of your way as an administrator to ignore me or at the very least you didn't receive them.


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 14, 2011)

Shadow said:


> I hope this will fix the broken moderating team that frolics about the main FA site playing favoritism. I've seen it and I believe, though this isn't law being a site, justice is blind and by association so should those who moderate know where to draw the line. I recall a certain _feline_ relating to _summer_ telling me of a few rules but being unable to pull up said rules other than saying "that's the way it is." I'm willing to understand, but I prefer appropriate referencing rather than verbal/textual tidbits.
> 
> Also, regarding this issue, I sent you *two notes* on the main site, Dragoneer. Last I checked when I sent those in March earlier this year, not only did you not read them based on their appearance in my outbox, you never responded.
> 
> Update: I just checked on FA, you STILL haven't read them. Please tell me you didn't go out of your way as an administrator to ignore me or at the very least you didn't receive them.


 
I have the same issue with admin not reading PMs on the main site as well.


----------



## Dregna (Jul 14, 2011)

I am already satisfied with the management and the function on FA here. I hope the merging won't create the impact to these management especially artwork posting or the main rules here.


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## That_Damn_Wolf (Jul 14, 2011)

Oh furries, one minute you're all "_Hurr we want change!_", then the next you're all "_What? I don't want change_!"

Make up your minds, will ya?

I for one think it's a good step forward for FA. Congrats Dragoneer, I really hope this actually does some good for the site. Gods know it needs it.


----------



## Traediras (Jul 15, 2011)

Shadow said:


> I hope this will fix the broken moderating team that frolics about the main FA site playing favoritism. I've seen it and I believe, though this isn't law being a site, justice is blind and by association so should those who moderate know where to draw the line. I recall a certain _feline_ relating to _summer_ telling me of a few rules but being unable to pull up said rules other than saying "that's the way it is." I'm willing to understand, but I prefer appropriate referencing rather than verbal/textual tidbits.
> 
> Also, regarding this issue, I sent you *two notes* on the main site, Dragoneer. Last I checked when I sent those in March earlier this year, not only did you not read them based on their appearance in my outbox, you never responded.
> 
> Update: I just checked on FA, you STILL haven't read them. Please tell me you didn't go out of your way as an administrator to ignore me or at the very least you didn't receive them.





Ainoko said:


> I have the same issue with admin not reading PMs on the main site as well.


 
If you had thousands upon thousands of unread notes, had a whole site + community to look after, AND you also needed to work in order to keep said site going, then chances are you'd probably not be able to get through all the unread notes. Just because you feel like you're being "ignored" doesn't mean you should get special treatment over every other person who would probably be waiting for their notes to be answered.


----------



## Sparxx (Jul 15, 2011)

Well, there are some things that Furocity has that Fur Affinity does not have that I'm sure they were planing to get sometime in the future such as the ability to choose a mature avatar and a clean avatar. I know from seeing the reaction the day the new avatar policy was made that there were a lot of angry users when that came, but perhaps with this merge, that could be a benefit for those of you who wish to use such content for icons and avatars and such related things. Just give it a chance is all I'm basically saying because you never know, you just may like it, you may not. You won't know unless you give it a chance and I'm sure that's a risk worth taking right?

TL;DR
Give the merge a chance. You won't know until you try it. It's not like something bad will happen from this. Assuming is never good. There's some interesting things on both websites that you may like and they may like.


----------



## theLight (Jul 15, 2011)

Lobar said:


> Well now we know why anyone with technical questions and critique had to suddenly be banned en masse, they might have put a damper on this announcement.


 
Isn't it just wonderfully Orwellian?


----------



## Girla PurpleHeart (Jul 15, 2011)

Question: Will this'll affect the non-furry art because I really don't know if Furocity's policy is against any human-related art nor pornography? I need to know because I really don't know and never trust of these sites that were against human-related art. Not to be offensive or anything.


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## Trpdwarf (Jul 15, 2011)

Girla PurpleHeart said:


> Question: Will this'll affect the non-furry art because I really don't know if Furocity's policy is against any human-related art nor pornography? I need to know because I really don't know and never trust of these sites that were against human-related art. Not to be offensive or anything.


 
No it will not. Remember that FA and Furocity are not combining into one site. Fa is staying Fa, and Furocity is staying Furocity. There is now way we'd ever ban human related art here on FA. That's silliness.


----------



## Girla PurpleHeart (Jul 15, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> No it will not. Remember that FA and Furocity are not combining into one site. Fa is staying Fa, and Furocity is staying Furocity. There is now way we'd ever ban human related art here on FA. That's silliness.


 
Ah! OK then, that explains anything. It's like sharing networks with each other except the websites are really different. I guess I worried to much then. :V


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## Shadow (Jul 15, 2011)

Traediras said:


> If you had thousands upon thousands of unread notes, had a whole site + community to look after, AND you also needed to work in order to keep said site going, then chances are you'd probably not be able to get through all the unread notes. Just because you feel like you're being "ignored" doesn't mean you should get special treatment over every other person who would probably be waiting for their notes to be answered.


 
When did I say I was wanting special treatment, albeit it is administration related? I'm not stupid when I know people work, but I'd think prioritization would come into to play as it's not some social PM. Also, you're not Dragoneer so you can't vouch for him or his inbox. I'd rather hear it from the person my post was directed toward.


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## RedReynart (Jul 15, 2011)

Do you have a bigger picture of that graph??

Also I don't see Furocity on that graph ... Only IB,FA,SF,e621 and VCL 
Im curious about Ychan and Fchan too.



GreenReaper said:


> Yeah. See the horizontal line at the bottom? That's where Furocity was when I graphed it.
> 
> (Caveat: Alexa kinda sucks. Threw e621 in because it's a competitor in terms of viewers, if not artists.)



I ment to quote this


----------



## Williamca (Jul 15, 2011)

RedReynart said:


> I ment to quote this


 Furocity is the black border line on the bottom, aka nothing on Alexa's ranking system.


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## Ringo (Jul 15, 2011)

I love the "additional coding expertise" in the OP. "Additional" implies there was any to begin with.


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## RedReynart (Jul 15, 2011)

On another note Furocity I just looked up to see what it is and its extreamly small almost remindes me of furnation the way they have the gallery set up.. This can be a good or bad thing this so called "merge" But knowingly I say it will be a bad thing for Furocity and a good thing for Furaffinity. 

How? Simple we all know what happend to Universal Productions when the Merged with Activision to become Activision Blizzard. Activision merging with Vivendi Universal killed Universal and put off more than 350 workers and employees shuting down all the sub groups claiming they wanted to move in a new direction.. And look at all the rubbish they came out with ...

So it is good that FA is merging for it probally knows that with the competion of the new springing sites they need to "go in a new direction" to keep afloat..  Though will probally like activision kill off Furocity with the merge..  So expect some dramatic changes.. (other than all the rubbish fa has already done) 

And that is my two cents.


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## RedReynart (Jul 15, 2011)

Williamca said:


> Furocity is the black border line on the bottom, aka nothing on Alexa's ranking system.



That is VCL the black line, IB is in blue,FA is red, e621 is green, SF is yellow look at the legend (key)


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## Williamca (Jul 15, 2011)

RedReynart said:


> That is VCL the black line, IB is in blue,FA is red, e621 is green, SF is yellow look at the legend (key)


 You don't seem to understand what I am saying. Furocity has no ranking with Alexa, so it is the black border line on the bottom. Even VCL has more of a ranking than Furocity. I hope you can understand this now. 
Furocity rank almost 3 million
VCL rank about 300k


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## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2011)

Who the fuck cares where Furocity is on some sorta jumbled nonsense map
Dragoneer is bringing over ADMINS
PEOPLE TO ENFORCE RULES.
ADMINS FROM FUROCITY TO COME ONTO FA AND BECOME ADMINS HERE AS WELL AND ENFORCE RULES
Is it clear enough? I mean cmon dudes, cmon. Read it.


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## Devious Bane (Jul 15, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Who the fuck cares where Furocity is on some sorta jumbled nonsense map
> Dragoneer is bringing over ADMINS
> PEOPLE TO ENFORCE RULES.
> ADMINS FROM FUROCITY TO COME ONTO FA AND BECOME ADMINS HERE AS WELL AND ENFORCE RULES
> Is it clear enough? I mean cmon dudes, cmon. Read it.


 It's as clear as the fact he's too lazy to find any decent ones and fire the ones he already has.


----------



## keeshah (Jul 15, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> No it will not. Remember that FA and Furocity are not combining into one site. Fa is staying Fa, and Furocity is staying Furocity. There is now way we'd ever ban human related art here on FA. That's silliness.


 
The worry is getting new mods an admins from Furocity, who thinks drawing animal cock = Bestiality.
That we don't need on FA.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> It's as clear as the fact he's too lazy to find any decent ones and fire the ones he already has.


 from what i hear the Furocity admin/mod/owner w/e is good

You're too bitter :]


----------



## Stealthy (Jul 15, 2011)

This, I'm sure, would be awesome if I had any idea what Furocity actually was (past it being a furry art site).


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 15, 2011)

Growly said:


> Okay, after reading more of this thread, I have to say the announcement is confusing and poorly written.
> 
> A simple _resource_ merger is a big deal to the admins running the site, but to the userbase, it will be pretty much invisible. So this isn't "one of the biggest [announcements] in FA history", and because the announcement post was so ambiguous, you're upsetting a lot of people because they don't understand what's going on. And your selective answering of comments is only adding to people's alarm.
> I think the point needs to be stressed in the original posting that you're merely sharing admins and the site has a new co-owner.



No shit growly...Love ya at AC


----------



## min (Jul 15, 2011)

Cool story, bro.
so, when does the new UI launch?


----------



## Kelpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Don't feel like reading through everything and while I left before I just wanna say...

If ALL that is -actually- happening, is that we're getting some of their admins to help over here since apparently Dragoneer can't get some better ones or make the ones he has do their jobs... why is this being called a MERGE.

It's just confusing people and pissing people off because it doesn't look like that many people want what the definition of a merge is.  I'm all for more admins as long as they actually DO their jobs and don't just abuse their power or slack off all the time.

But maybe that's what this should be called.  Even if it's "FA is getting mods from a pretty obscure furry website that it seems like most of you don't care for" instead.


----------



## Anepo (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> 1) Trust me, people would leave if something like this would happen.
> 
> 2) FA isn't a business and neer relies on donations, without users there's no donations, without donations there's no FA
> 
> 3) I know it's not merging, i'm just saying if it "were" merging, and no, again, this would be a very bad choice for FA, not a "good step forward".



nr1. There were huge security leaks which caused A LOT of data being stolen including tons of personal messages (a few of mine included) which has left me not doing anything but posting comments anymore (and I don't touch the ads)

nr2. It is always good to atleast make a poll and get to HEAR the customers opinion. Doing that does TWO things: It shows the admin does care about it's customers. And getting feedback is ALWAYS a positive thing. (Kitchen nightmares enough said lol)
Another perfect example is when a business is struggling like a store and other it is always good to ask the LOWEST staff (aka the staff at the bottom) WHAT could go better and what could be fixed. (there is one guy who does this and gets millions of dollars for just talking to the staff and fixing what they think is the problem because they are usually right) Not saying that the users are right however but they do need to get a sense of security that nothing is gona fuck it all up.

nr3. staff merging is still something that worries me. That and a new design. if it will be a new design that I do not like then I  will stop using FA. It is like an MMORPG. If they change the  look and feel of the system (star wars galaxies is a perfect example) and I or other people don't like it then they stop using it.
The staff worries are: Security issues and knowing that there will be another person whom I have no idea who is and never heard of will have the same power as Dragoneer.
Along with a lot of staff I have NO idea who are which could in the future screw FA over or the other way around.
This does worrie me quite a bit. As we do NOT want more security breaches or leaked out information.


----------



## Anepo (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Draken_The_Dragon said:


> Gotta love being ganged up on for opinions..
> Never said I demanded I be listened to (though that would be great, being a user, but one among thousands)
> 
> It's my, again, opinion, that I don't like the site. Great thing is, like you said, I don't have to listen


 
It's just another way to say "gangbang" And they do it because they love you 

Making a poll does two things: It tells the consumer that the Admins DO care about they're opinion and it does give the consumer a bit of peace knowing that the admins are listening even though they might not agree with the consumer.
But it is still something that is highly reccomended when it comes to big decisions.
Listening to the customer's worries is just considered good business.
Just like Gordon Ramsay knows =P
(as in kitchen nightmares tv show)


----------



## rodox_video (Jul 15, 2011)

None of this makes any sense. No, really, there is no real reason for this to be happening. I just don't get it.


----------



## Traediras (Jul 15, 2011)

I think the fact that Furocity was built *from the ground up* (#) really speaks for itself. Yes, there may be quite a few people who know how to code, but in the end it's the experience that truly matters. Neer is vesting his trust into the Furocity programming team to help with the reconstruction of FA (whether some parties agree with this or not is probably going to be redundant in due course).

Besides, if the Furocity mods (those who do come over to FA) step out of line, they'll be gone bloody quick.


----------



## Syntex (Jul 15, 2011)

rodox_video said:


> None of this makes any sense. No, really, there is no real reason for this to be happening. I just don't get it.


 
FA is indeed, an insanely huge site, and they realized they need to get their act together so their seeking help, what's there not to get?


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 15, 2011)

rodox_video said:


> None of this makes any sense. No, really, there is no real reason for this to be happening. I just don't get it.


 
Well, nothing is happening with FA, not even coding. The site is still vulnerable to attack, nobody on FA's team are programmers. You can't count a person as a programmer when they make no changes. The coop will bring in programming skills.

I'm happy there will be programmers who have done something like FA before unlike the wannabe programmers who hang out in #hackerfurs. They couldn't code their way out of a CSV file even if they wanted.


----------



## imnohbody (Jul 15, 2011)

Who do I sue to get back the hour or so I've wasted in this thread? 

No, really. There was like a handful of actually important questions, while like 3/4ths (guesstimate) of the people posting (not individual posts, individual post*ers*) keep asking the same questions that had gotten answers multiple times, posting content-free "do not want" crap without actually explaining anything, or were using the thread for yet another venue for airing long-standing grudges against the FA staff in general and Dragoneer in particular that were irrelevant to the thread topic.

As to the thread subject itself, considering I'd not even _heard_ of Furocity before now and haven't had any direct need of mods or admins (vice indirect stuff like maintaining the site), I can't really offer anything constructive about the issue.


----------



## Shadow (Jul 15, 2011)

Ringo said:


> I love the "additional coding expertise" in the OP. "Additional" implies there was any to begin with.


 
We all know how many exploits have proven that fact. XD From note leaking to auto-journal posting to prove a lack of secure coding.


----------



## wolfbeast (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



dopy said:


> That's funny because they got no programming expertise, they got all their stuff coded by a company, none of what they have is coded by their staff.


That's news to me because I worked with Gavin over there to pinpoint an apparently long-standing thumbnail layout issue, which WAS fixed by the staff after finding the source of it. So there's definitely plenty of expertise there as far as web layout and coding goes


----------



## kgraleopard! (Jul 15, 2011)

In regards to the furor over the mods and what asshats they might be, let me just say, as a Furocity user, that I've had nothing but polite and prompt contact from the Furocity mods.  They were efficient and answered my questions quickly (same day or within 24 hours!).  I've heard all kinds of horrible things about the mods here on FA, about issues with favoritism and problems not being even acknowledged for weeks or months or sometimes ever, and, based on my personal experience, the Furocity mods will fix those customer service issues.  I have also met most all of them in person at various events and they're very nice in real life too, which can only add to my comfort knowing they're getting stuff done properly.  And I'm sure, once everything's in place, that the mods will introduce themselves to everyone and will be happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have about the changes or submissions or whatever!

One Furocity feature that I love is the submission reporting button.  Just click on it, fill out a simple form about why you want this image/writing brought to the mods' attention, and voila!  I would love to see that brought over to FA.

I'm very excited about this change.  It's been a long time coming.  Especially with so much unnecessary drama so easily flamed into a roaring inferno.  It's okay, everyone.  Nothing is screwed.

*hugs*


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 15, 2011)

kgraleopard! said:


> I've heard all kinds of horrible things about the mods here on FA, about issues with favoritism and problems not being even acknowledged for weeks or months or sometimes ever, and, based on my personal experience, the Furocity mods will fix those customer service issues.


 
Dragoneer needs to set guidelines for the support admins. There is a support admin on the FA side which suspended a user for 6 hours for making a Jew joke with the comment of "I'm jewish"(summarized). Such action is unacceptable when the comment didn't involve the admin nor was the joke directly anti-Semitic. Such admins need to be corrected or leave FA staff, this is not 1943 Germany.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 15, 2011)

Kelpie said:


> Don't feel like reading through everything and while I left before I just wanna say...
> 
> If ALL that is -actually- happening, is that we're getting some of their admins to help over here since apparently Dragoneer can't get some better ones or make the ones he has do their jobs... why is this being called a MERGE.
> 
> ...



It's not being called a merge anymore. It's been changed to "joining forces". You can see that in the thread title, the OP, the FA top banner notice, and Fender's most recent update in the news section of the fA home page.


----------



## timoran (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Trpdwarf said:


> I can tell you here that we do care. If we have a user who becomes guilty of art theft it is in the rules they get banned for 30 days after it is proven. Then if they commit it again it's a perm suspension. The thing is you have to prove it first, and often times when users start harrassing a person and they take it down before an admin get a chance to look it over it becomes problematic.


 
Admins should be able to see deleted evidence. Deleting a submission should not delete the file.


----------



## kgraleopard! (Jul 15, 2011)

Absolutely not! (this being 1943 Germany, that is)  Yes, all mods need to be modded themselves by the admins, and if they aren't doing their jobs right, they should be released from their duties, at any level.

And, yes, that's some of the stuff I've heard of too (about people being banned, artwork removed, etc. unjustly), but I have confidence that cooler heads will prevail and incidences like this will be much reduced, if not eliminated.

*hugs*



insane_kangaroo said:


> Dragoneer needs to set guidelines for the support admins. There is a support admin on the FA side which suspended a user for 6 hours for making a Jew joke with the comment of "I'm jewish"(summarized). Such action is unacceptable when the comment didn't involve the admin nor was the joke directly anti-Semitic. Such admins need to be corrected or leave FA staff, this is not 1943 Germany.


----------



## Bobskunk (Jul 15, 2011)

Yes, because the Nazis in 1943 Germany were all about punishing people who made jokes at the expense of Jewish people. :V


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Jul 15, 2011)

Since I was away and missed the whole thread, the 'HUGE announcement' is just that FA doesn't have enough admin to cope and instead of finding decent people in it's own userbase has decided to just import the mods from a working site? I guess that's huge in the FA getting stuff to work sense but it sounds very exaggerated (maybe to divert attention?). And why do we really care about Furocity anyway? If you're just getting new admins and resources why not just say that instead of talking about a merger when the sites aren't merging at all? I've also seen some other questions I want answered but I can't look through the few hundred posts. Can't there be an FAQ or decent news post as the OP?


----------



## MrEvers (Jul 15, 2011)

What the Frak, what about all the data, the comments, the submissions, the journals, the watchers, the communities, the favourites, what the Frel's going to happen?


----------



## Xenke (Jul 15, 2011)

MrEvers said:


> What the Frak, what about all the data, the comments, the submissions, the journals, the watchers, the communities, the favourites, what the Frel's going to happen?


 
THE SITE'S DATABASES ARE REMAINING SEPARATE.

RIGHT NOW, WE ARE ONLY SHARING ADMINS AND CODERS.

READ.


----------



## Eske (Jul 15, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Since I was away and missed the whole thread, the 'HUGE announcement' is just that FA doesn't have enough admin to cope and instead of finding decent people in it's own userbase has decided to just import the mods from a working site? I guess that's huge in the FA getting stuff to work sense but it sounds very exaggerated (maybe to divert attention?). And why do we really care about Furocity anyway? If you're just getting new admins and resources why not just say that instead of talking about a merger when the sites aren't merging at all? I've also seen some other questions I want answered but I can't look through the few hundred posts. Can't there be an FAQ or decent news post as the OP?


 
Honestly, I think it's more than that, but who knows.  A few pages back, someone copy/pasted a PM saying that there is a chance that it will be an actual merger later on, but no one's really sure whether that was actual information or not.  So... we have no idea.  The 'why Furocity' question hasn't really been answered, aside from the fact that it will somehow help expand the furry community as a whole (not sure how, that's all he said).

Supposedly, we will be getting more info soon (I think I remember hearing that there would be more on Tuesday.. I'm not sure), but there has been a  bit of information covered in this thread as well.  So you might as well ask your other questions, just in case someone can answer them.  As long as it's not covered in the first/last few pages or in bold on the very first page (_-ahem-_), you're probably good to go.  Otherwise, you can always use the search tool (click the magnifying glass to get to advanced search, if you didn't know).  

I'm just glad they're telling us something, and looking at bringing in  new staff.


----------



## Aden (Jul 15, 2011)

MrEvers said:


> What the Frak, what about all the data, the comments, the submissions, the journals, the watchers, the communities, the favourites, what the Frel's going to happen?


 
I made it bold and everything :c


----------



## DraculKuroHemming (Jul 15, 2011)

Does this mean that FA will now have stuff we have to pay for to get full use out of FA? If so, I disprove this joining. If not, then full throttle ahead!!!


----------



## Xenke (Jul 15, 2011)

Aden said:


> I made it bold and everything :c


 
I really think the problem is that they read the little blurb on FA, follow the link and then instantly post without actually even reading the OP.

Honestly, it's the only explanation I can think of for the sheer lack or literacy.

See? vvv



DraculKuroHemming said:


> Does this mean that FA will now have stuff we have to pay for to get full use out of FA? If so, I disprove this joining. If not, then full throttle ahead!!!


----------



## Syntex (Jul 15, 2011)

timoran said:


> Admins should be able to see deleted evidence. Deleting a submission should not delete the file.



Nothing is ever truly deleted from a site, when someone deletes a submission from FA, it's not deleted, we don't got that kind of power, you just basically remove the url, it's still int he system, gonna take a lot of digging but you'd find it.



DraculKuroHemming said:


> Does this mean that FA will now have stuff we have to pay for to get full use out of FA? If so, I disprove this joining. If not, then full throttle ahead!!!



This question was already answered on every single page including the first post.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 15, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> you're just getting new admins and resources why not just say that instead of talking about a merger when the sites aren't merging at all? I've also seen some other questions I want answered but I can't look through the few hundred posts.



The thread title, OP, fA homepage notice banner, and Fender's news post on the fA homepage all say "joining forces", not mergers. And yes, from the looks of it fA and Furocity will be sharing staff and resources. The sites will be two separate sites. No one will need to worry about having duplicate usernames because of the fact the sites are separate. The AUP may be updated. People banned on one site will not be banned on the other.

Hopefully that answers any other questions you have.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Jul 15, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:
			
		

> The thread title, OP, fA homepage notice banner, and Fender's news post  on the fA homepage all say "joining forces", not mergers. And yes, from  the looks of it fA and Furocity will be sharing staff and resources. The  sites will be two separate sites. No one will need to worry about  having duplicate usernames because of the fact the sites are separate.  The AUP may be updated. People banned on one site will not be banned on  the other.



The OP was reworded and FA homepage banner has the title "*Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement"*. Practically every paragraph of the OP suggests the two sites coming together, if not now then in the future. Indeed if they aren't planning to merge then the announcement makes almost no sense whatsoever and is certainly not big news. FA hasn't ever announced new admins quite this way. It also doesn't make sense why the biggest furry site needs to go buddy up with a nobody to try and get people to help run it. The benefits to FA are obvious but all the necessary skills were already in the FA community now we're just getting outsiders joining up and being put in charge. Even if it's just resources and people that is a strange, and unsettling, thing to do.


----------



## Xenke (Jul 15, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> The OP was reworded and FA homepage banner has the title "*Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement"*. Practically every paragraph of the OP suggests the two sites coming together, if not now then in the future. Indeed if they aren't planning to merge then the announcement makes almost no sense whatsoever and is certainly not big news. FA hasn't ever announced new admins quite this way. It also doesn't make sense why the biggest furry site needs to go buddy up with a nobody to try and get people to help run it. The benefits to FA are obvious but all the necessary skills were already in the FA community now we're just getting outsiders joining up and being put in charge. Even if it's just resources and people that is a strange, and unsettling, thing to do.


 
If it puts an end to the site's stagnation, who gives a crap?


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 15, 2011)

Xenke said:


> If it puts an end to the site's stagnation, who gives a crap?


 
^ This right here. (This isn't working for me, permissions error)


----------



## craftyandy (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Rhazafax said:


> Please tell me the "no cub-porn" rule stays.


 Please tell me it doesn't I like seeing people like you all squirm with discomfort over lines on paper.


----------



## craftyandy (Jul 15, 2011)

Never heard of this site until now, but bigger site, staff, space, etc. sounds good to me.


----------



## timoran (Jul 15, 2011)

Syntex said:


> Nothing is ever truly deleted from a site, when someone deletes a submission from FA, it's not deleted, we don't got that kind of power, you just basically remove the url, it's still in the system


 
If that were the case, it would not be "problematic" for someone like Trpdwarf to deal with art theft when the submission is deleted.


----------



## kayfox (Jul 15, 2011)

Syntex said:


> Nothing is ever truly deleted from a site, when someone deletes a submission from FA, it's not deleted, we don't got that kind of power, you just basically remove the url, it's still int he system, gonna take a lot of digging but you'd find it.



No, it deletes the file and the database entry.  Sometimes the database entries can be recovered through backups, but currently not the files.


----------



## eltoroguaco (Jul 15, 2011)

well this sounds cool.

However, I dunno what Furocity is and what changes may appear xD

Just as long as I'm able to keep the features fur affinity already has  most important is to uplaod the art, the categories on uploading, the user profile (May like changes on that.), mature/adult filters... etc.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



timoran said:


> Admins should be able to see deleted evidence. Deleting a submission should not delete the file.


 
At this current time that is how it works. If you remove a submission the data is gone, the file is gone. Please do not assume otherwise.


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



craftyandy said:


> Please tell me it doesn't I like seeing people like you all squirm with discomfort over lines on paper.


 I do like how cubporn furs are still bawwing after it was a legal reason we removed it :V


----------



## Bluflare (Jul 15, 2011)

To anybody watching this trolls, idiots, smart asses or good guy this is indeed 100% furaffinity.net Furry drama *at its finest nuff said period.*

*Furaffinity.net*

_Furry Community? ask me when we get somewhere when the drama actually ends._


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 15, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> _Furry Community? ask me when we get somewhere when the drama actually ends._



With a community as large as FA/FAF, it's kinda hard to not have drama :/


----------



## Aaros (Jul 15, 2011)

Seems I'm late to the party on this thread. Gotta say though, I'm kind of excited to see what will come from this. I've run across Furocity a bit in the past and even after just looking briefly through it the site seems more well-designed and better coded than FA, so I'm curious what use FA can make of the programmers who built Furocity. And it seems like everyone who is informed about the staff on both sides wants it to happen and can vouch for Furocity's staff, so I'm all the more eager to see what comes of this. Change is something to look forward to!


----------



## Syntex (Jul 15, 2011)

kayfox said:


> No, it deletes the file and the database entry.  Sometimes the database entries can be recovered through backups, but currently not the files.


 
Aha, well, I was only running on what a moderator told me, guess they were wrong.


Anyways, why are people discussing this on here now?


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 15, 2011)

Syntex said:


> Anyways, why are people discussing this on here now?


 
I keep bringing the issues up because auditing is a lacking feature in FA. Yes I've offered to code, but Dragoneer rejected even though I can do more than most people combined. When Dragoneer makes a decision like that, everyone who uses FA is a loser.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 15, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> To anybody watching this trolls, idiots, smart asses or good guy this is indeed 100% furaffinity.net Furry drama *at its finest nuff said period.*
> 
> *Furaffinity.net*
> 
> _Furry Community? ask me when we get somewhere when the drama actually ends._



This drama is considered small change in comparison to the other issues that we've had in the past.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 15, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> This drama is considered small change in comparison to the other issues that we've had in the past.


 
I can't remember a single change involved discussion that didn't have a whole bunch of drama. Drama and furries will always be butt buddies I guess.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 15, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> I can't remember a single change involved discussion that didn't have a whole bunch of drama. Drama and furries will always be butt buddies I guess.


 
Well...in comparison to the two other drama incidents, this one is considered "Civil". :V


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Jul 15, 2011)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Well...in comparison to the two other drama incidents, this one is considered "Civil". :V


 
Yeah, I was laughing at the mention of calling this thread drama. This thread has been VERY civil in comparison. Though, it could be the forum mods keeping everyone in check.


----------



## Charrio (Jul 15, 2011)

I just hope the Furocity people have some sense of professional manner and can show the FA admins how to operate as such. 
Seeing how things have been handled here at FA, which is very unprofessional at times. 

If things like this can solved even to a minor degree it could be an improvement.


----------



## Lei-Lani (Jul 15, 2011)

Coming up next, an IPO on the NASDAQ stock exchange, symbol "FURRY". ^^


----------



## RedReynart (Jul 15, 2011)

I love reading what everyone else says, I find it all rather amusing.

FA is one of the biggest furry corporations out there selling its TB's for us to use to upload all of our pornography for no cost but our rights to free speach and press. 

When other websites that aren't so big such as IB and E621 pop up they don't seem like a threat, But then FA realizes more and more of these are poping up and it is losing its clients a bit everyday... 

Thus the only thing to do is Merge and buy out smaller companies to have under its belt. All in hope you bring in another comunity to make the numbers go back up. Eventrully though..

Fa will regain its numbers and Kill off Furocity for good as they to are looking for "New alternatives and a New Direction" To keep afloat once more.. 

You read about this behavior all the time in the newspapers.. Just dont' put to much "stock" in the site..


----------



## Dr. Durr (Jul 15, 2011)

RedReynart said:


> FA is one of the biggest furry corporations out there selling its TB's for us to use to upload all of our pornography for no cost but our rights to free speach and press.


Some of the limits, are against subjects that are seriously frowned upon.



> When other websites that aren't so big such as IB and E621 pop up they don't seem like a threat, But then FA realizes more and more of these are poping up and it is losing its clients a bit everyday...


I have never seen proof of that other the "I quit!" journal every once in a while.

Just sayin'.


> Thus the only thing to do is Merge and buy out smaller companies to have under its belt. All in hope you bring in another comunity to make the numbers go back up. Eventrully though..


If you read this thread right, you would know it's just administration merging. Not whole sites.


> Fa will regain its numbers and Kill off Furocity for good as they to are looking for "New alternatives and a New Direction" To keep afloat once more..


FA gets it's money though advertising and donations.


> You read about this behavior all the time in the newspapers.. Just dont' put to much "stock" in the site..


FA is almost microscopic compared to companies like Microsoft or Apple.
Like I said, FA gets money through ads and donations.

Sorry to come off as a jerk, but that isn't what is happening


----------



## timoran (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Trpdwarf said:


> At this current time that is how it works. If you remove a submission the data is gone, the file is gone. Please do not assume otherwise.


 
I meant the "should" in a "FA needs to fix it" way.


----------



## Enkai (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Dragoneer said:


> I remember you. I banned you on the site for the sheer amount of drama you created, and then you left some death threats in my voicemail when my number got leaked. =D
> 
> Excuse me while I fix that "not banned from the forums" thing.
> 
> ...


 
Dragoneer sees all.


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 15, 2011)

Its surprising how many are still thinking the Sites are merging or FA is trying to devour all of its competitors and such. Also surprising how many are still unsure of what Furocity is. Well the link has been posted so all those too lazy to read back, let me introduce you to Google. :3

Okay one more time... Debunking 101

1.) THE SITES ARE NOT MERGING! THE STAFF ARE!
2.) THERE IS NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT USER ACCOUNTS CONFLICTING SINCE THE SITES ARE NOT MERGING!
3.) IF YOUR BANNED ON ONE YOU WILL NOT BE AUTOBANNED ON THE OTHER UNLESS YOU CAUSE TROUBLE THERE WARRANTING THE BAN!
4.) FA HAS NO INTENTION OF BANNING HUMAN ART
5.) FA HAS NO INTENTION OF BANNING HUMAN/ANTHRO ARTS
6.) CUB PORN IS STILL BANNED DUE TO LEGAL REASONS! DON'T LIKE IT, WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN! (lols)
7.) FUROCITY(dot)com IS A SMALLER FURRY ART COMMUNITY! W/GALLERY FOLDERS, WORKING COMMISSION PAGES, ACTUAL GROUPS (not user pages pretending to be groups), ETC!

And for all those whining about why not bring back old admins, would you prefer they bring back the one who held FA hostage by redirecting the IP, holding it ransom till he was bought out? (which happened a few years ago and resulted in an extended length of downtime) Seriously folks. There are reasons old admins are rarely (if ever) brought back.


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## dragonlover81 (Jul 15, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Trpdwarf said:


> At this current time that is how it works. If you remove a submission the data is gone, the file is gone. Please do not assume otherwise.



I wonder if this poses any legal issues. Suppose, for instance, that someone uploaded actual child porn as defined in 18 USC 2256, then promptly removed it. Would there be any legal issues over the evidence being so easily deleted?


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## Werewolfhero (Jul 15, 2011)

There would still probably be traces, left on redundant backup drives and such. And just because you delete something doesnt completely erase it from the harddrive. (sometimes file recovery programs can retrieve deleted images, videos, etc, which FBI/Police use quite often, and of course there are 3rd party programs that can be downloaded for free or pay off the net for general consumer use.)  So yeah there'd still be legal issues.


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## GreenReaper (Jul 15, 2011)

Not sure about FA, but Inkbunny's policy is to purge work involving humans in sexual situations from the server upon discovery.



> 6.) CUB PORN IS STILL BANNED DUE TO LEGAL REASONS! DON'T LIKE IT, WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN! (lols)


No, it isn't. It was banned because payment processors dropped FA due to it. To my knowledge, they did not provide an actual legal reason for doing so, but then they were not required to.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 15, 2011)

GreenReaper said:


> Not sure about FA, but Inkbunny's policy is to purge work involving humans in sexual situations from the server upon discovery.
> 
> 
> No, it isn't. It was banned because payment processors dropped FA due to it. To my knowledge, they did not provide an actual legal reason for doing so, but then they were not required to.


 they didnt mention why they dropped us but it may deal with Canada (where alertpay is located) having this thing about drawings of underage children in adult situations. I would assume that the Furry Fandom's Cub porn is on par with Anime's Loli to which known of two men being arrested for having it while in canada (specially the one that was crossing INTO canada).


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## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2011)

Bluflare said:


> To anybody watching this trolls, idiots, smart asses or good guy this is indeed 100% furaffinity.net Furry drama *at its finest nuff said period.*
> 
> *Furaffinity.net*
> 
> _Furry Community? ask me when we get somewhere when the drama actually ends._


Good god. You care too much about dumb shit. You care too much about people saying things you don't agree with [retards definition of a troll]


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## GreenReaper (Jul 16, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> they didnt mention why they dropped us but it may deal with Canada (where alertpay is located) having this thing about drawings of underage children in adult situations.


As I said to you privately (not wanting to derail this thread), _Softpaw_ was printed there, and there was plenty of opportunity for Canadian or U.S. customs to object.

AlertPay's decision was based on the legal cost that would be incurred in the event that it became an issue; regardless of merit, a lawyer might cost more in an hour than they made from FA, Inkbunny and SoFurry put together in a year. Not nice, but a logical business decision.


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## Pinstriped Tiger (Jul 16, 2011)

Okay, so. TL;DR for those a dizzied by the misconceptions/drama/whining as I was.

This is not an actual merger. The two sites are not consolidating. Rules are probably not changing. What is actually happening is the staff of both sites are sharing responsibilities.

The owners of Furocity DID in fact program their own site; they own the company that programmed it. They "built it from the ground up."

'Neer probably did not "consult" the userbase considering everyone's been bitching at him for years to man up and get some more help with programming and administrating.

In other words, this is what the majority has been asking for for a long time. If you don't like that, too bad. :U

Don't bitch about rule, site, or account changes until they are discussed/happen. Ask, sure. Bitch, no.


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## Shadow (Jul 16, 2011)

kgraleopard! said:


> In regards to the furor over the mods and what asshats they might be, let me just say, as a Furocity user, that I've had nothing but polite and prompt contact from the Furocity mods.  They were efficient and answered my questions quickly (same day or within 24 hours!).  I've heard all kinds of horrible things about the mods here on FA, about issues with favoritism and problems not being even acknowledged for weeks or months or sometimes ever, and, based on my personal experience, the Furocity mods will fix those customer service issues.  I have also met most all of them in person at various events and they're very nice in real life too, which can only add to my comfort knowing they're getting stuff done properly.  And I'm sure, once everything's in place, that the mods will introduce themselves to everyone and will be happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have about the changes or submissions or whatever!
> 
> One Furocity feature that I love is the submission reporting button.  Just click on it, fill out a simple form about why you want this image/writing brought to the mods' attention, and voila!  I would love to see that brought over to FA.
> 
> ...


 
I assume you saw my comment on the previous page.

In general, I hope this does indeed fix the broken down website that is FA since it's only been the same for the past few years. Poor mods haven't helped. May as well call it the furry website version of Duke Nukem Forever. "You'll get the new UI..._when it's done._"



insane_kangaroo said:


> I keep bringing the issues up because auditing is a lacking feature in FA. Yes I've offered to code, but Dragoneer rejected even though I can do more than most people combined. When Dragoneer makes a decision like that, everyone who uses FA is a loser.


 
I think you can call that lack of interest within your own community, where the lead guy will look to other websites, but in his defense, what do you have, for a lack of better words, in knowledge that makes you able to walk the walk with your talk?



Enkai said:


> Dragoneer sees all.


 
He still hasn't responded to an administration issue I came across in March this year. Those notes are still unread. :/


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## zizii (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm down with this.


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## Syntex (Jul 16, 2011)

Shadow said:


> He still hasn't responded to an administration issue I came across in March this year. Those notes are still unread. :/



I can understand he's a horribly busy guy running a horribly huge site with horribly whiney/bitchy furs and administrating gets out of hand, he's seeking help, to get shit done, I think that's the purpose of this thread, no? Also he responds to emails more well off to notes, at least that's what I came to realize, since I got my emails answered by him, about anything, in a prompt time, try that if your issues are that bad (next time).

support@furaffinity.net


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## Riyeko (Jul 16, 2011)

Eh this is interesting.
After reading nine pages (gah i have better things to do sorry FAF), I think that as long as things dont change overall and folks are happy about it (im talking about the folks running the entire system, NOT the users), then whatever.

Changes will come.
Things will happen.
If you do it slowly and have a smile on your face then ... everything should be hunky dory.


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## Shadow (Jul 16, 2011)

Syntex said:


> I can understand he's a horribly busy guy running a horribly huge site with horribly whiney/bitchy furs and administrating gets out of hand, he's seeking help, to get shit done, I think that's the purpose of this thread, no? Also he responds to emails more well off to notes, at least that's what I came to realize, since I got my emails answered by him, about anything, in a prompt time, try that if your issues are that bad (next time).
> 
> support@furaffinity.net


 
At the time, I had gone based off of what rules had stated and the common sense thing to do, which was contact Dragoneer specifically. I'd otherwise want to know for sure how full said inbox is.


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## Syntex (Jul 16, 2011)

Shadow said:


> At the time, I had gone based off of what rules had stated and the common sense thing to do, which was contact Dragoneer specifically. I'd otherwise want to know for sure how full said inbox is.



From what I've seen, thousands at a time


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## SpaceFoxy (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: Fur Affinity/Furocity Merger Announcement*



Williamca said:


> You state the sites will be independant yet you also state that rules may change/are unknown at the moment. Why would sharing staffers have to affect either sides rules? This sounds like a temporary thing to help both sides then go back to normal for both, but hey what do I know.


 

If you think for a moment this is clearly done so that the staff of both sites as they will be working on both of them have a unified code on how to react to certain issues without having to dig into the separate sites rules before knowing what to do. This will speed up the process of issues getting resolved.


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## Linney (Jul 16, 2011)

Werewolfhero said:


> Okay one more time... Debunking 101
> 
> 1.) THE SITES ARE NOT MERGING! THE STAFF ARE!
> 2.) THERE IS NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT USER ACCOUNTS CONFLICTING SINCE THE SITES ARE NOT MERGING!
> ...


 
This. ^ THANK YOU.

Now everyone untwist your panties and get back to uploading your arts. Not much is really changing.


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## Iritas (Jul 16, 2011)

I never heard about Furocity before but their site looks pretty clean it has a better layout than FA i think.


I am actually very interested in the recoding of the site, are you planning on using a framework and will you change/optimize the database layout (e.g. not store the mood as a string within the data of the userprofile)?

How long do you think it will take to recode FA ?

Will furocity get to use the hardware of FA and will there be anyway to join accounts over the sites ?


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 16, 2011)

Iritas said:


> Will furocity get to use the hardware of FA and will there be anyway to join accounts over the sites ?



What do you mean joined? Like what is uploaded on an fA account will also be uploaded on Furocity at the same time? I can't say I know that for sure, but I do know that accounts on fA are completely separate from Furocity accounts, so no worries about account names on either site being in jeopardy.


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## Iritas (Jul 16, 2011)

What i had in mind was that for example i have an FA account and then i create an account on furocity and i am able to post stuff on both if i wish to, without having to go to both sites. Something like that.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 16, 2011)

Iritas said:


> What i had in mind was that for example i have an FA account and then i create an account on furocity and i am able to post stuff on both if i wish to, without having to go to both sites. Something like that.



I think that you'd have to upload the picture on each site separately, since fA and Furocity are still remaining as individual sites.


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## Excess-0 (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm honestly a bit concerned about how this will affect those of us who are primarily commission artists. I currently find most of my clients by advertising and communicating via FurAffinity, and I'm wondering how this will affect things like: My clients' ability to contact me, changes in advertising rates/rules, any rules concerning the selling/trading and purchasing of art through use of the site's resources, etc. FurAffinity has long been a haven for this kind of business, and whilst I am fairly new to it, others are not, and many artists make their living(in part or in whole) by taking commissions that are channeled through the site.
While I feel I could easily adapt my personal use of the site to any changes that come about due to this merge... My business applications and clients might be less easily adapted.
I don't know anything about Furocity, having never used it before, so perhaps this is not a concern at all. I just hope that as someone who has always appeared to understand the importance of FurAffinity in the lives of those of us who offer commissions, that you will consider this angle while working out the details of your site merger.

Thank you very much!

-Excess


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## Syntex (Jul 16, 2011)

Excess-0 said:


> I'm honestly a bit concerned about how this will affect those of us who are primarily commission artists. I currently find most of my clients by advertising and communicating via FurAffinity, and I'm wondering how this will affect things like: My clients' ability to contact me, changes in advertising rates/rules, any rules concerning the selling/trading and purchasing of art through use of the site's resources, etc. FurAffinity has long been a haven for this kind of business, and whilst I am fairly new to it, others are not, and many artists make their living(in part or in whole) by taking commissions that are channeled through the site.
> While I feel I could easily adapt my personal use of the site to any changes that come about due to this merge... My business applications and clients might be less easily adapted.
> I don't know anything about Furocity, having never used it before, so perhaps this is not a concern at all. I just hope that as someone who has always appeared to understand the importance of FurAffinity in the lives of those of us who offer commissions, that you will consider this angle while working out the details of your site merger.
> 
> ...



Um, what the hell are you talking about? What does this thread have to do with yours and your commissioner's business?


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## Armaetus (Jul 16, 2011)

Excess, stop worrying about it.


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## Werewolfhero (Jul 16, 2011)

Excess-0 said:


> I'm honestly a bit concerned about how this will affect those of us who are primarily commission artists. I currently find most of my clients by advertising and communicating via FurAffinity, and I'm wondering how this will affect things like: My clients' ability to contact me, changes in advertising rates/rules, any rules concerning the selling/trading and purchasing of art through use of the site's resources, etc. FurAffinity has long been a haven for this kind of business, and whilst I am fairly new to it, others are not, and many artists make their living(in part or in whole) by taking commissions that are channeled through the site.
> While I feel I could easily adapt my personal use of the site to any changes that come about due to this merge... My business applications and clients might be less easily adapted.
> I don't know anything about Furocity, having never used it before, so perhaps this is not a concern at all. I just hope that as someone who has always appeared to understand the importance of FurAffinity in the lives of those of us who offer commissions, that you will consider this angle while working out the details of your site merger.
> 
> ...


 
Once again....
*it should have little if any effect since FA and Furocity are remaining separate - independent sites. FA and FC Databases are not merging!* At this point in time there is only a merging of staff and Dragoneer has already stated that the only AUP changes hes wanting to do atm are revisions to photography uploads and such. (skim through page 3 for his posts for that)


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## Dr. Durr (Jul 16, 2011)

Since people don't seem to get it:
*FA and Furocity are only sharing moderation and administration.*
The rules will be the same.
If you are banned from one, you will still have the other.
FA will keep human art.


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## Summercat (Jul 16, 2011)

Heyas -

Since we're chasing our own tails here, let's discuss things over at http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/103782-Furaffinity-Furocity-Joining-Forces-Discussion-Thread , where the original post is an FAQ. Hopefully this solves some things.


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