# Alternative programs/services



## Seekrit (Jun 14, 2013)

All this talk of PRISM and Microsoft being colossal dicks has got me spooked. It doesn't really, but it gave me an excuse to make this thread.

What are some viable alternatives to things like Outlook.com and Gmail? I am a little concerned about how these companies handle my data, but can't think of any alternatives (that will still be around in 5 years). At the minute I use outlook as my srs business address and skydrive for file storage, so it feels like I can't get away from Microsoft. It would be nice to completely ditch them, but the most popular alternative is just as bad.

So, gimme some options plsthx. If you know of any alternatives to commonly used software that might be better too, post them as well.


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## Runefox (Jun 15, 2013)

Honestly, the only alternative I can think of to GMail and Outlook.com might be Yahoo, which... Yeah. Is also under the umbrella. You could always host your own mail server, but that's not very much fun. Plus, mail can in theory be intercepted at the SMTP stage anyway, so it's difficult to say any solution is secure for mail.

I actually recently (well, a few months ago) moved my e-mail over to Outlook.com for the convenience factor of it not sucking with Outlook, since Outlook 2013 is the best mail client I've found on Windows, but has exceptionally shitty IMAP support. That said, Outlook.com doesn't do IMAP either, but most of my devices are fine with ActiveSync. Macbook uses mBoxMail to get IMAP access.

Between the two, I'm not sure which is more evil. Both of them are going through your mail and ostensibly MSFT doesn't do it for advertising purposes, but that's up for debate. Supposedly Apple's never heard of PRISM, so iCloud might be a decent choice (works cross-platform, too), but that's also up for debate. Really, it's impossible to know how deep a lot of this PRISM stuff *really* runs... You'd more or less have to use an e-mail provider that is not based in the United States, Canada, Australia, the UK, or New Zealand ("five eyes"). Unfortunately, that leaves very few actual options open.

Getting away from mail, if you use Google Chrome, you can use Chromium instead, which is the FOSS version stripped of Google-specific additions. SRWare Iron is a security-focused fork of Chromium, but I don't think it's FOSS. Still, has a privacy focus with no built-in trackers, and even comes preloaded with an ad blocker.

For IM, there's Pidgin as a client, which while not its own service is a FOSS IM client. I used it for quite some time until switching to Trillian out of convenience (continuous client, mobile app). Trillian does store chat logs online as a feature (as do most IM services), so since they are a US-based company, they fall under the umbrella, too, even if you use encrypted IM. I don't think there's a mainstream IM service in existence that isn't subject to PRISM or some other country's surveillance (Russian and Chinese services almost certainly are monitored). The alternative is setting up / using an XMPP service, which is basically an IM network you can create / control on your own. The catch is, like IRC, other users need to connect to YOUR network. Actually, IRC might be a good way to go, since most servers don't log messages, and of course you choose whether or not to connect to one over another. With SSL, that's actually probably (ironically, considering the simplicity) the most secure IM option.

I suppose for a more complete privacy solution that can handle even the ISP level you could make use of Tor (slow) or some other anonymizing service like BT Guard (fast), but that only hides your geographical location and prevents history tracking; Your online accounts and activity can still be monitored. For more effective privacy, you'd need to start from scratch while exclusively using these services. Tor in particular doesn't claim to provide *complete* anonymity, but nothing will; It's part of a measured approach.

Probably the single best thing you can do though is to stop using any services like Facebook. It's actually very scary how much of users' personal lives can be traced and with what kind of precision thanks to Facebook info.


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## Seekrit (Jun 15, 2013)

I was afraid of that. All that.

So I'm pretty much screwed for email providers? The only other option I can think of is a premium boards.ie account, it's hosted in Ireland and privately run. Costs â‚¬50 a year though, but it might be worth the investment.

Chrome without the Google sounds ideal, I'll install it when I'm back on Win7 (another Microsoft product I'm having difficulty getting away from). While I like the idea of pidgin and IRC, the majority of my contacts use Skype so I can't really stop using it. Microsoft is so ingrained in everyone's online life ditching them is starting to seem like a hermitage at this stage. Complete anonymity is nothing more than a dream I think, I just want to do what I can to protect myself online. Like you say, Facebook is probably the biggest problem right now, and as  soon as I get emails and phone numbers off of people it's going bye-bye. You've given me a lot of good info here, but unfortunately most of it would only be practical if everyone I want to contact followed it too. Most people don't give a damn, either from ignorance or just not caring. 

What about file storage? Is Dropbox any better/worse than skydrive?


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## Saga (Jun 15, 2013)

Fuck, another prism thread. 

What are you afraid of?


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## Runefox (Jun 15, 2013)

Dropbox... Supposedly hasn't *yet *joined PRISM. They're about to, however. Since PRISM isn't exactly a voluntary thing (only making it easier for them to collect data by opening / installing sniffers on their networks), they can still request access to information even without membership. Again, you'd need to find a company outside of the US, Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand... And that's difficult. There are plenty of file sharing sites out there, but for actual storage and cloud services you're mostly SOL.

Box is one option, but again, also an American company. Former MegaUpload creator's new brainchild, Mega, is also a good candidate. It's hosted in New Zealand, but at the same time doesn't directly fall under PRISM's umbrella. That said, there's a lot of controversy and legal battles surrounding Mega, so it may not continue to exist, or may in fact be under extreme scrutiny.

While doing a bit of searching, I came across an article about this very concept. Much of it is the same as I'd suggested, but there are a few services they've listed that I hadn't heard of before and may be worth looking into. Again, though, among five eyes nations and especially anything in the US, you're looking at possible government snooping.



Saga said:


> Fuck, another prism thread.
> 
> What are you afraid of?



Shouldn't matter. The principle is enough to want to avoid it. Why should anyone be able to find out you like midget porn if you don't want them to? Besides, there is a lot of potential for evil in this scenario, and the surface has only been grazed. While it's claimed that there are safeguards in place and that people cannot use the data to target any individuals, I find that suspect, and the amount and nature of that data is very dangerous for a society that is rapidly turning into a police state.

*Especially* for a society that values freedom so dearly, and yet is so ready to give up personal freedoms and privacy for false security.

I'll just cut to the chase here and mention the Nazis so the argument is moot before it really begins. What are you afraid of? Der fÃ¼hrer is merely doing what is best for all of the German people. What have you to hide?

I guess I'll go with the Soviet Union too. Papers, please.

I'll end off on a piece of the Constitution:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.â€​


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## Falaffel (Jun 15, 2013)

Saga said:


> Fuck, another prism thread.
> 
> What are you afraid of?



Shits scary bro.


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## Saga (Jun 15, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Shits scary bro.


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## Seekrit (Jun 15, 2013)

Saga said:


> Fuck, another prism thread.
> 
> What are you afraid of?



That was sarcasm, bro. I just want to know if there's anything I can use that won't give the Americans access to my stuff. May be hard to understand, but I don't like the idea of a bunch of foreigners able to learn everything about me.


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## Falaffel (Jun 15, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> That was sarcasm, bro. I just want to know if there's anything I can use that won't give the Americans access to my stuff. May be hard to understand, but I don't like the idea of a bunch of foreigners able to learn everything about me.


I completely understand this but I have no way of helping :c sowwy seektit..


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## Seekrit (Jun 15, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> I completely understand this but I have no way of helping :c sowwy seektit..



Become president and make all the bad things go away.

FALAFFEL-CLINTON 2016


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## Falaffel (Jun 15, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Become president and make all the bad things go away.
> 
> FALAFFEL-CLINTON 2016


I need 15 trillion for my ad campaign .. better make a kickstarter for it now.

Whats my slogan?


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## Seekrit (Jun 15, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Whats my slogan?



"None of _that_ shit".


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## Falaffel (Jun 15, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> "None of _that_ shit".


I ain't having that shit.


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## Jaseface (Jun 15, 2013)

Ill vote for waffle 2016.  But I would have to say outlook is the best mail server to use and if i'm correct most businesses use outlook for their email client


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## Seekrit (Jun 15, 2013)

Jaseface said:


> Ill vote for waffle 2016.  But I would have to say outlook is the best mail server to use and if i'm correct most businesses use outlook for their email client



The worst thing about Outlook is that it's so good. How can Microsoft be so awesome in some areas (Windows, Outlook, Skype), and so terrible in others (do I even NEED to say its name)?

I looked about for more web browsers and came accross Comodo Dragon. Built off of Chromium and built with security in mind, you can even use their DNS servers. I've used their firewall software before and it was really effective. Anyone who wants Chrome without Google knowing everything you do should consider it. Also, IT'S CALLED DRAGON COME ON YOU SCALIES GET GOIN'


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