# Would digitgrade legs work on an anthro?



## Harbinger (Aug 18, 2012)

Im just wondering, i think digitgrade legs look the best, but something keeps nagging me in the back of my head, would they really work on a bipedal animal?

I mean if you go on your tip toes i think its the same princible, and when you do that you want to go back on your flat feet. So if you had digitgrade legs would you be unbalanced?
Would there be too much wait on your knee/knees?

Do digitgrade legs only work with animals because they are quardipeds?

FFS i wish we were taught anatomy in biology and not shitting chemical reactions in cells non stop -_-


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## RedFoxTwo (Aug 18, 2012)

When a person is standing at rest, they tend to stand such that the force of their weight goes on their bones, which lock up. This way the muscles don't have to strain to keep you standing. If you were digitigrade, you would have to take the force of your weight on your muscles all the time you were standing up, which would tire you out quickly.

Humans are very well evolved for standing and walking, and we're very efficient at it. Although digitigrade animals can move faster and jump higher, they also tire a lot quicker. So yeah: digitigrade legs look incredibly cool, but would be a pain in the ass to have to deal with if you did a lot of standing and walking.

Alternatively, you could argue that animals who had evolved to be both digitgrade and bipedal would have much larger, stronger leg muscles to compensate. As a result, they might be as well suited to standing and walking, but in a different way. You could also argue that most mammals already do spend their lives putting lots of weight on their digitgrade legs all day; Horses for instance.

What would be interesting to think about is what the gait of a bipedal digitigrade animal would look like.


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 18, 2012)

I used to wonder about this, too, until I saw these.  Then I was like, oh, okay, there's one way to make it work.  Granted those are designed for sprinting, but you know.


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## Fallowfox (Aug 18, 2012)

I'm sure digitgrade bipedal animals exist and existed in the past too.

The ostrich is a modern example, yes?

Of course the anatomy would work, provided sufficient changes were made.


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## Harbinger (Aug 18, 2012)

Birds legs are different arent they?
Just like ours but inverted?


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## RedFoxTwo (Aug 18, 2012)

Harbinger said:


> Birds legs are different arent they?
> Just like ours but inverted?


The bird's knee is close to its body and under the feathers. What you think is their knee is actually their ankle. Birds however don't have to have sturdy legs as they're _extremely_ lightweight animals, so you can't judge 'em the same.


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## Fallowfox (Aug 18, 2012)

Harbinger said:


> Birds legs are different arent they?
> Just like ours but inverted?



I believe all creatures of common discent have the same bones in their limbs [given the digits are often lost fused or deformed etcetera].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitigrade

Indeed walking birds are digitgrade creatures, so there we go.



RedFoxTwo said:


> The bird's knee is close to its body and under  the feathers. What you think is their knee is actually their ankle.  Birds however don't have to have sturdy legs as they're _extremely_ lightweight animals, so you can't judge 'em the same.



Ostriches weigh in at over 100kg


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## badlands (Aug 18, 2012)

Edit: fallowfox beat me to it.

bird legs are digitigrade it's just the structure of the foot that's radically different






there's nothing stopping bipedal digitgrades from working. you just need to be aware of the center of gravity when you draw them or they will look wrong


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## Palantean Writer (Aug 18, 2012)

Generally, we're unusual animals because the length of our foot (heel to toe) is pretty short, compared to many other species. But I don't know that much about anatomy, so I'll shut up at this point.

On a similar point, the bladerunner's 'feet' are interesting, but you might notice something similarly interesting about fly jumpers: http://www.flyjumper.com/htm/enindex.asp

One thing I'm noticing as I learn to draw different styles of legs is that you need to pay attention to the centre of gravity. Have you ever held a dog's front paws and half-picked him up so he appears to be standing on his back legs? It seems tempting to draw digitigrade legs like that but clearly the dog can't stand like that, so you have to try and realign the hips on your character so they're a bit straighter. It's getting a good balance that makes the image work.


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## Stratelier (Aug 18, 2012)

RedFoxTwo said:
			
		

> If you were digitigrade, you would have to take the force of your weight on your muscles all the time you were standing up, which would tire you out quickly.


Not necessarily true!  That's like trying to stand with your legs half-bent all the time (or doing the "invisible chair" exercise), which of course wears on your leg muscles rather quickly.  The straighter and more vertical the leg, the less energy it takes to maintain.



			
				badlands said:
			
		

> there's nothing stopping bipedal digitgrades from working. you just need to be aware of the center of gravity when you draw them or they will look wrong.


Indeed, and center-of-gravity generally falls about the waist area.  Visualize connecting lines between all points where a portion of the character (hand, foot, tail if applicable) actually strikes the ground.  If the center of gravity falls roughly within this area, then this is a stable (meaning "balanced") position regardless of how much energy is needed to hold it.  If the center of gravity falls outside the area, the position is not balanced (but this is okay if they're in active motion).


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## Ley (Aug 18, 2012)

One of the few threads in the den that I have genuine interests in.


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## Fallowfox (Aug 18, 2012)

I think a more pressing question is how would an anthro actually speak? The morphology of an elongated face isn't exactly helpful.


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## Batty Krueger (Aug 18, 2012)

Awrrooooroooo, that's how.
[video=youtube;qXo3NFqkaRM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXo3NFqkaRM[/video]


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## Psynapse (Aug 20, 2012)

Another example of who made it work: www.deadbeatgods.com


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## Harbinger (Aug 20, 2012)

badlands said:


> Edit: fallowfox beat me to it.
> 
> bird legs are digitigrade it's just the structure of the foot that's radically different
> 
> ...



I feel so stupid for only just finding this out >_<


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## Fallowfox (Aug 20, 2012)

Harbinger said:


> I feel so stupid for only just finding this out >_<



I remember thinking birds and all digitgrade animals had 'backwards knees' as a child, then one day I realised by counting the number of bones that they didn't and it completely melted my brain.


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## Stratelier (Aug 20, 2012)

Psynapse said:


> Another example of who made it work: www.deadbeatgods.com



Which is funny, because out of 100 pages there really aren't many panels where you can actually see enough leg to tell. (Page 7, 21 and 23 are the only ones within the first 30 pages, though to be fair there are definitely more when Raine makes her appearance; page 41 is a good example, legs kept relatively straight)

...What do comic artists have against drawing legs/feet anyway?  (I seem to have the opposite problem, my characters are small enough relative to panel size it's hard _not_ to draw their whole figure.)


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## Fallowfox (Aug 20, 2012)

Stratadrake said:


> Which is funny, because out of 100 pages there really aren't many panels where you can actually see enough leg to tell. (Page 7, 21 and 23 are the only ones within the first 30 pages, though to be fair there are definitely more when Raine makes her appearance; page 41 is a good example, legs kept relatively straight)
> 
> ...What do comic artists have against drawing legs/feet anyway?  (I seem to have the opposite problem, my characters are small enough relative to panel size it's hard _not_ to draw their whole figure.)



Close up shots on the torso or face have been a staple for art photography and film for a long time, not just comic artists. Maybe it's because the frame dimensions people choose reflect the golden ratio and don't leave room for legs, perhaps because devoting more area to the face makes empathising with characters easier.


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## Smelge (Aug 21, 2012)

Stratadrake said:


> ...What do comic artists have against drawing legs/feet anyway?  (I seem to have the opposite problem, my characters are small enough relative to panel size it's hard _not_ to draw their whole figure.)



Because they're hard and don't have much expression.


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## Stratelier (Aug 21, 2012)

So on further reflection, Prydwen does a good job with her digitigrade characters, but it seems it's that large birdlike mount that's a problem.  There is no physical way it can balance on just its two hind legs if all the weight is in front of where those feet actually touch the ground.



Smelge said:


> Because [feet] are hard and don't have much expression.


Hands are much harder than feet, really.  (They also happen to be more expressive, but that's separate.)



Fallowfox said:


> Close up shots on the torso or face have been a staple for art photography and film for a long time, not just comic artists. Maybe it's because the frame dimensions people choose reflect the golden ratio and don't leave room for legs, perhaps because devoting more area to the face makes empathising with characters easier.


"Let's face it:  How often do you look at a man's _shoes?_"
-- Red, _The Shawshank Redemption_


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## Smelge (Aug 21, 2012)

But back to the topic, digitigrade would work on a bipedal creature. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to have digitigrade fursuits. I guess leaning movements are out with those, but with a tail adding a bit of counterbalance, I don't see why not.


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## Fallowfox (Aug 21, 2012)

Smelge said:


> But back to the topic, digitigrade would work on a bipedal creature. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to have digitigrade fursuits. I guess leaning movements are out with those, but with a tail adding a bit of counterbalance, I don't see why not.



Digitgrade fursuits are only _aesthetically_ so...I think the OP was talking mechanically. [but in any case there are real life examples of digitgrade bipedalism like most avain creatures and some dinosaurs I believe]


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