# So let me get this straight



## Arcturus (Apr 15, 2010)

You add profile IDs. You change the front page up and tweak with notes.

But yet you can't fix something as simple as the commission info yet?

It's been how long now, at least a year I am sure of it. I'd even fix it FOR you, as it is badly needed, except I know you won't accept any help from me.


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## LizardKing (Apr 15, 2010)

Oh hi there


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## Volkodav (Apr 15, 2010)

Wait, what was changed about the front page and notes?


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## Stratelier (Apr 15, 2010)

If an FA developer responds to this ... Arcturus, you better be prepared to eat those words.

Increasing the # of things shown on the Mainpage, for example, was a trivial change; all they had to do was change the number of items queried from the database.  The rest of the HTML output took care of itself.

The Commissions Info page was taken out due to exploitable security flaws.  Failure to properly escape HTML entities is a big one, and I've heard from an FA developer that this is nowhere as easy to fix as it looks at a glance.  There's some particular configuration along FA's CGI server that throws a wrench in it, exactly what I don't know, but it was described as "like magic quotes, but worse".


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## Ilayas (Apr 15, 2010)

Arcturus said:


> You add profile IDs. You change the front page up and tweak with notes.
> 
> But yet you can't fix something as simple as the commission info yet?
> 
> It's been how long now, at least a year I am sure of it. *I'd even fix it FOR you, as it is badly needed, except I know you won't accept any help from me.*



And why won't they let you help?


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## Armaetus (Apr 15, 2010)

@Ilayas: I don't think they want "outside" help.

Their loss. :|


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## Arcturus (Apr 15, 2010)

Stratadrake said:


> If an FA developer responds to this ... Arcturus, you better be prepared to eat those words.
> 
> Increasing the # of things shown on the Mainpage, for example, was a trivial change; all they had to do was change the number of items queried from the database.  The rest of the HTML output took care of itself.
> 
> The Commissions Info page was taken out due to exploitable security flaws.  Failure to properly escape HTML entities is a big one, and I've heard from an FA developer that this is nowhere as easy to fix as it looks at a glance.  There's some particular configuration along FA's CGI server that throws a wrench in it, exactly what I don't know, but it was described as "like magic quotes, but worse".




I doubt I'll have to. It's a quick fix, provided you're competent.


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## CerbrusNL (Apr 15, 2010)

Glaice said:


> @Ilayas: I don't think they want "outside" help.
> 
> Their loss. :|


If they'd let anyone access the site's "source files", They would basically be inviting anyone to hack into the servers, or exploit flaws in the code...


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## Dyluck (Apr 15, 2010)

so how's Ferrox coming along


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## Ricky (Apr 15, 2010)

DAMN SLACKERS D:


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## Firehazard (Apr 15, 2010)

Glaice said:


> @Ilayas: I don't think they want "outside" help.
> 
> Their loss. :|



If this is the same Arcturus I'm assuming it is, "outside" isn't quite the right word for it. She seems harmless enough, but considering that the last ex staff member who got ahold of their code hacked it, I can why they'd be wary...


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## Ricky (Apr 15, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> If this is the same Arcturus I'm assuming it is, "outside" isn't quite the right word for it. She seems harmless enough, but considering that the last ex staff member who got ahold of their code hacked it, I can why they'd be wary...



How is sniffing unencrypted WiFi a code exploit?


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## eyeplusfork (Apr 16, 2010)

*@Arcturus:* not having the Commission section isn't that big of a panty-knotter.  Make a damn journal with your info there and attach it to your user info.  SIMPLE.



Ilayas said:


> And why won't they let you help?



I would assume it's because letting anyone outside the IT staff or whatever get ahold of the site code runs a SERIOUS risk of getting fucked sideways.



Ricky said:


> DAMN SLACKERS D:



You're asking for it, man. :/


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## Stratelier (Apr 16, 2010)

Arcturus said:


> It's a quick fix, provided you're competent.


Ever hear of the one about adding more people to a software project...?

As for whether it's a quick fix, let me re-iterate:  *You Don't Know That*.


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## Taralack (Apr 16, 2010)

eyeplusfork said:


> *@Arcturus:* not having the Commission section isn't that big of a panty-knotter.  Make a damn journal with your info there and attach it to your user info.  SIMPLE.


I agree. Back when the commission info page _was_ active, I didn't even think people looked at it.


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## OxfordTweed (Apr 16, 2010)

Toraneko said:


> I agree. Back when the commission info page _was_ active, I didn't even think people looked at it.



I never remembered to update mine, because it was a horrible example of "out of sight, out of mind." It's so much easier to keep it in my journal footer.


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## yak (Apr 16, 2010)

Reason why commission info page isn't out yet is because I'm recoding it from scratch, assimilating all the ideas and feedback I've been given and found myself. It's not going to be the same page minus the exploits.

To all people complaining that I should be doing something else with my time - don't compare changing a number from 4 to 8, or copy pasting an existing code to a complete rewrite of a feature.


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## CerbrusNL (Apr 16, 2010)

yak said:


> To all people complaining that I should be doing something else with my time - don't compare changing a number from 4 to 8, or copy pasting an existing code to a complete rewrite of a feature.



Meh, most of those people have absolutely no idea what kind of work goes into the changes and re-writes you make. I'm not saying I'm an expert here, but I do have an idea of the work involved.

Also, a lot of people seem to forget Yak isn't paid for his work here...


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## Carenath (Apr 16, 2010)

Ilayas said:


> And why won't they let you help?


The short answer is: bad blood.



Glaice said:


> @Ilayas: I don't think they want "outside" help.


That is incorrect.



Arcturus said:


> I doubt I'll have to. It's a quick fix, provided you're competent.


Trouble is, and you know this yourself, most people are anything but competant. Besides, it's being rewritten from scratch as Yak's stated.



CerbrusNL said:


> Also, a lot of people seem to forget Yak isn't paid for his work here...


A lot of people seem to forget that no one here is paid for their work and contributions (with the obvious exception of the artists), but then again, a lot of people seem to have entitlement issues and can be quite ungreatful.


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## Stargazer Bleu (Apr 16, 2010)

Carenath said:


> A lot of people seem to forget that no one here is paid for their work and contributions (with the obvious exception of the artists), but then again, a lot of people seem to have entitlement issues and can be quite ungreatful.


 
Im just glad that so many put there free time to keep FA and FAF going:grin:

Thanks to all of you for your hard work.  Looking foward to seeing the commission info fixed. Should be worth the wait when it made to be more enjoyable for all its members.


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## CerbrusNL (Apr 16, 2010)

Carenath said:


> A lot of people seem to forget that no one here is paid for their work and contributions (with the obvious exception of the artists), but then again, a lot of people seem to have entitlement issues and can be quite ungreatful.


Exactly... I know from experience what it's like Working in a similar situation, where non-staff members keep demanding you to work harder, faster, when it's just something you do in your spare time. Also, better net let them know you also have other things you like to do, like playing a game every now and then, because then you're not doing your 'job'!


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## Stratelier (Apr 16, 2010)

The Fanart Central domain I work at (admin + developer, ftw), let's see.  Our bug tracker is up to 170 by now, perhaps half of them are still unresolved (not all of them are actually bugs though, some are just feature requests) and I still have nearly 20 bugs assigned personally to me.

And that's not counting my paying 40-hour /week job.  Haven't been able to touch any of them this week


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## eyeplusfork (Apr 16, 2010)

Stratadrake said:


> The Fanart Central domain I work at (admin + developer, ftw), let's see.  Our bug tracker is up to 170 by now, perhaps half of them are still unresolved (not all of them are actually bugs though, some are just feature requests) and I still have nearly 20 bugs assigned personally to me.
> 
> And that's not counting my paying 40-hour /week job.  Haven't been able to touch any of them this week



D:  oh my god!



yak said:


> Reason why commission info page isn't out yet is because I'm recoding it from scratch, assimilating all the ideas and feedback I've been given and found myself. It's not going to be the same page minus the exploits.
> 
> To all people complaining that I should be doing something else with my time - don't compare changing a number from 4 to 8, or copy pasting an existing code to a complete rewrite of a feature.



For what it's worth, KUDOS.  That's intense.  Rewriting?  Holy crap.  I'm kinda excited about seeing the new one now - but oh god, no rush, man.

Ever notice that in a lot of things, not just this, the people bitching about something have actually no idea what's involved to fix said something? :/



Carenath said:


> A lot of people seem to forget that no one here is paid for their work and contributions (with the obvious exception of the artists), but then again, a lot of people seem to have entitlement issues and can be quite ungreatful.



That sucks.  Paid or not, no one should treat you like their personal coder/mod/servant.  I for one am grateful there's a FurAffinity at all.


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## Ricky (Apr 16, 2010)

eyeplusfork said:


> Ever notice that in a lot of things, not just this, the people bitching about something have actually no idea what's involved to fix said something? :/



Except for the ones who are like, you know...  computer programmers :roll:


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## eyeplusfork (Apr 16, 2010)

Ricky said:


> Except for the ones who are like, you know...  computer programmers :roll:



And he STILL whined about it taking so long.  Seems he never thought to find out himself what was up properly instead of bitching and moaning about it.  Guess it never occurred to him that they could start recoding from scratch, which I understand happens quite a bit with programming in general.


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## Arcturus (Apr 16, 2010)

It's still been a year.


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## Verin Asper (Apr 16, 2010)

Arcturus said:


> It's still been a year.


its still one person doing a complete re-write


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## Ricky (Apr 16, 2010)

eyeplusfork said:


> And he STILL whined about it taking so long.  Seems he never thought to find out himself what was up properly instead of bitching and moaning about it.  Guess it never occurred to him that they could start recoding from scratch, *which I understand happens quite a bit with programming in general.*



Only when the design is fucked.


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## Summercat (Apr 16, 2010)

Waaaaah! I want attention so I'll bash a volunteer to spends time working on something when he has free time from his real job, Waaaaaah!


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## Firehazard (Apr 16, 2010)

Ricky said:


> How is sniffing unencrypted WiFi a code exploit?



It's not. But he did hack the site at the first opportunity. It's established that people who leave FA's staff do so on bad terms, sometimes so bad as to actively try to destroy it. So it's no wonder bringing back an ex staff member to work on the site is something Dragoneer doesn't want to do. And it might explain why they don't bother to bring in anyone else to work on the code either. You can't trust anyone anymore.



yak said:


> Reason why commission info page isn't out yet is because I'm recoding it from scratch, assimilating all the ideas and feedback I've been given and found myself. It's not going to be the same page minus the exploits.



Considering the staff still seems to believe Ferrox is TOTALLY COMING OUT RLYRLY SOON U GUISE, I can imagine they're not particularly supportive of your efforts either. They probably think any changes you make amount to beating a dead horse. Not exactly good for one's motivation.


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## Artificial Ginger (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm a bit puzzled as to why the commission info page is such a big deal. Most of the artists I've seen seem to manage just fine using journals for it.

I mean, I guess it's convenient for users in that they won't have to read the artist's entire userpage to find the commission info, but OP's a bit more bent out of shape over this than I can understand, year or no year.

OP should also put his money where his mouth is =V


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## Ricky (Apr 16, 2010)

Firehazard said:


> It's not. But he did hack the site at the first opportunity. It's established that people who leave FA's staff do so on bad terms, sometimes so bad as to actively try to destroy it. So it's no wonder bringing back an ex staff member to work on the site is something Dragoneer doesn't want to do. And it might explain why they don't bother to bring in anyone else to work on the code either. You can't trust anyone anymore.



You could have code review.

I just think it's funny everyone is trying to rationalize why it is completely reasonable nothing gets done instead of trying to take steps to improve the situation.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 16, 2010)

Ricky said:


> You could have code review.
> 
> I just think it's funny everyone is trying to rationalize why it is completely reasonable nothing gets done instead of trying to take steps to improve the situation.



I offered a few months back.  Turns out I actually ended up finishing something, only for it to be bought by my own company and used as a social networking engine in company.  Whoops  

I'll not speculate on why things here haven't worked out codewise as well as they'd like, but I will say that it's not easy to rewrite something from scratch that is scalable and mutable.


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## Ricky (Apr 16, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> I offered a few months back.  Turns out I actually ended up finishing something, only for it to be bought by my own company and used as a social networking engine in company.  Whoops
> 
> I'll not speculate on why things here haven't worked out codewise as well as they'd like, but I will say that it's not easy to rewrite something from scratch that is scalable and mutable.



Word.  It's never easy.

Even the most trivial things turn out to be a huge fucking ordeal, sometimes -- especially if you try to do things the right way


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## GraemeLion (Apr 16, 2010)

Ricky said:


> Word.  It's never easy.
> 
> Even the most trivial things turn out to be a huge fucking ordeal, sometimes -- especially if you try to do things the right way



I do think if they treated me seriously and talked with me, instead of just brushing me off and insulting me, I would have been very willing to help. 

And I think that I'm not unique in getting that treatment, and every person treated like that is just more of a clue to software engineers like myself that this isn't the type of project you want.  It's enough of a shithole sometimes in the real world, for pay.   I only let people treat me like that because the money's worth it.  Nobody gets to treat me like that for free 

But, water under the bridge.    It'll all work out.


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## Ricky (Apr 16, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> I do think if they treated me seriously and talked with me, instead of just brushing me off and insulting me, I would have been very willing to help.
> 
> And I think that I'm not unique in getting that treatment, and every person treated like that is just more of a clue to software engineers like myself that this isn't the type of project you want.  It's enough of a shithole sometimes in the real world, for pay.   I only let people treat me like that because the money's worth it.  Nobody gets to treat me like that for free
> 
> But, water under the bridge.    It'll all work out.



Wow, you mean to tell me you're not going to beg and suck someone's cock to volunteer at a furry porn site for free?


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## GraemeLion (Apr 16, 2010)

Ricky said:


> Wow, you mean to tell me you're not going to beg and suck someone's cock to volunteer at a furry porn site for free?



*laughs* Sadly, no.  I will write for free.  Writing's my hobby.  Coding is my job.  That doesn't come for free except for people who ask nicely.


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## Carenath (Apr 19, 2010)

Arcturus said:


> It's still been a year.


And it is still *one* person doing this in his limited spare time.



Ricky said:


> Only when the design is fucked.


And we know who to thank for that.



Firehazard said:


> It's not. But he did hack the site at the first opportunity. It's established that people who leave FA's staff do so on bad terms, sometimes so bad as to actively try to destroy it. So it's no wonder bringing back an ex staff member to work on the site is something
> 
> Considering the staff still seems to believe Ferrox is TOTALLY COMING OUT RLYRLY SOON U GUISE, I can imagine they're not particularly supportive of your efforts either. They probably think any changes you make amount to beating a dead horse. Not exactly good for one's motivation.


Arcturus used to run FurAffinity, IIRC he paid for the hosting and server while Alkora wrote the codebase.

An assumption and a generalisation that you can't apply to every member of staff. Just like it's unfair for many of FA's detractors to brand all staff members with the same brush, since most of us were not even here when the bad blood that formed between those members occured.



GraemeLion said:


> I do think if they treated me seriously and talked with me, instead of just brushing me off and insulting me, I would have been very willing to help.
> 
> And I think that I'm not unique in getting that treatment, and every person treated like that is just more of a clue to software engineers like myself that this isn't the type of project you want.  It's enough of a shithole sometimes in the real world, for pay.   I only let people treat me like that because the money's worth it.  Nobody gets to treat me like that for free
> 
> But, water under the bridge.    It'll all work out.


You know, it's rather unreasonable to expect anyone's claims on the internet to be taken seriously don't you? You could tell me you were a computer hacker and programmer working for a company but unless you're going to put your money where your mouth is, no one has any reason to believe you.. then again I don't believe anyone's claims on the internet, I'm too cynical.
The other thing is, they don't want anyone offering to help fix the current FA codebase, only three people have access to it and only one person contributes any fixes or changes and even then only out of necessity and occasionally for cosmetic purposes.

If you want to help, you would be better off, designing a new system completly from scratch, implement at least, all of the current functions the system has and any new ones you think are appropriate. Pop over to the #furaffinity-dev channel if you want to get feedback.
Actions speak a lot louder than words.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 19, 2010)

Carenath said:


> If you want to help, you would be better off, designing a new system completly from scratch, implement at least, all of the current functions the system has and any new ones you think are appropriate. Pop over to the #furaffinity-dev channel if you want to get feedback.
> Actions speak a lot louder than words.



Actually, I offered to do JUST that, and was told something along the lines of "we already have a codebase. It's a good code base.  We're not going to change it, we're not going to not use it, and we don't need your fucking help, we just need to code what we have planned."

That was about a year ago.

Since that year, I actually DID finish what I was working on.  Then I made the mistake of showing it to my boss at the paying job, who turned it into a paid project and had the company buy out the code.

My resume was available, and all someone had to do was ask.  But instead, apparently, it was an e-peen contest that nobody wanted anyone else invited to.  

So cool.  I can respect that.  But don't act like I didn't offer. I did, and was shot down harshly and unnecessarily.  It was at that point I learned that I wasn't dealing with professionals here, but people concerned with being in charge of stuff and lording it over others.

That's fine.  I'm sure the people here are nice people.  I just don't need that environment to work in when I get home from work too.


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## Janglur (Apr 28, 2010)

Considering Arcturus' history, it's just bitter bashing.

I think everyone has forgotten that he hijacked the domain demanding money, once.


Personally, i'd just request they remove the 'comission info' tab, and let a bygone feature be bygone.  When it was around, people still didn't use it and update it correctly half the time.


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## Carenath (Apr 28, 2010)

Janglur said:


> Considering Arcturus' history, it's just bitter bashing.
> 
> I think everyone has forgotten that he hijacked the domain demanding money, once.


That's the problem with hearing stories about people, you don't always hear both sides.


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## Arcturus (Apr 29, 2010)

I'd like to state for the record that I never hijacked /any/ domain.


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## Nanakisan (Apr 30, 2010)

*laughs* hmm waait Arcturus arent you that chat mod that went nuts if someone couldn't write your name right?? Honestly i agree with what Yak said. Its better to rewrite then to patch. Patching leaves holes that can be fixed later on but rewriting the code eliminates the need to do such a thing. If theres a issue with the code later on Yak can easily repair now that it will be under a newer more optimized programming then what the current one is.


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