# Where does all the money go?



## jakejynx (Apr 8, 2011)

The recent news post on the front page has me wondering: $1695 is a lot of money per month. With no staff to pay (as far as I know), I'm curious about where that money goes and what it's used for. Can anyone shed any light?


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## dinosaurdammit (Apr 8, 2011)

jakejynx said:


> The recent news post on the front page has me wondering: $1695 is a lot of money per month. With no staff to pay (as far as I know), I'm curious about where that money goes and what it's used for. Can anyone shed any light?



I imagine usage of the servers, domain, and site clean up are what most of it goes to. Hardware is something I highly doubt it goes to now considering the amount they have.


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## Sanyi (Apr 8, 2011)

Protip: Hosting a site of this size costs a lot of money.
Also, they are paying somebody to do the new UI. I am assuming that is included in that monthly charge (for now).


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## LizardKing (Apr 8, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/2g8t5x


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## Bobskunk (Apr 8, 2011)

Extra RAM

Oh, and the 44U of rackspace.  Can't forget that.  It's only this expensive because they are spending more money than they need to.

in before yak's "You don't know a sixth of what's really going on and you speculate" blah blah gb2work


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## Azure (Apr 8, 2011)

Protip. Private companies and websites don't have to tell you where anything goes, ever, just where you can stick it. Not to say that I'm not curious, but barking up this tree is probably gonna get a thread lock, or a lengthy thread of "reasonable" admins with multi paragraph explanations of absoultely nothing. Good try though. Real talk, don't donate unless you want too. I wouldn't :V


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## Ben (Apr 8, 2011)

Azure said:


> Protip. Private companies and websites don't have to tell you where anything goes, ever, just where you can stick it. Not to say that I'm not curious, but barking up this tree is probably gonna get a thread lock, or a lengthy thread of "reasonable" admins with multi paragraph explanations of absoultely nothing. Good try though. Real talk, don't donate unless you want too. I wouldn't :V


 
Yeah, I wouldn't either. I mean, they've been making so many unfulfilled promises for years, that I just don't understand why my money should be donated to FA, instead of an actual, real charity (like the Red Cross!). Actually, now that I think about it, I find it strange that FA would start asking for donations when the Red Cross link is still up. I certainly hope no one actually looks at the news post, and then at the Red Cross link, and then goes "NO, THE FURRY PORN SITE NEEDS IT MORE." That would just be a tad upsetting.


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## Volkodav (Apr 8, 2011)

dragoneer spends it on fancy lacey underwear for me and then i put them on and give all the FA mods a show


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## jakejynx (Apr 8, 2011)

Can't say I understand the snark. o.0 I'm honestly just curious. Admins are welcome to explain, but that bill up there was a pretty good explanation in and of itself.


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## Smelge (Apr 8, 2011)

Here's an idea. Instead of asking for donations, actually respond to advertising emails, sell adspace for a fair price, get your bloody hosting idea up and running and earning cash, so you aren't reliant on people giving away cash.

Even better idea, you've got a couple of people around here that run their own printing business. They've advertised in the Black market a few times. Do some deal with them and get on-demand printing available, again giving profits to enable getting someone who knows what they are doing to recode the site or make Ferrox or whatever the hell it is now, work.


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## jakejynx (Apr 8, 2011)

Clayton said:


> dragoneer spends it on fancy lacey underwear for me and then i put them on and give all the FA mods a show


 
...I knew it.


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## jakejynx (Apr 8, 2011)

Smelge said:


> sell adspace for a fair price


 
Isn't it like $20 a month for an ad? That's pretty cheap. Are you saying it should be raised?


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## Smelge (Apr 8, 2011)

jakejynx said:


> Isn't it like $20 a month for an ad? That's pretty cheap. Are you saying it should be raised?


 
Given the traffic, yes, it's cheap.


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## Deo (Apr 8, 2011)

I agree that they should sell prints, I'd hate to see FA turn into DA, but selling prints and t-shirts could help maintain the site more steadily than "PLZ DONATE!"


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## Smelge (Apr 8, 2011)

Deo said:


> I agree that they should sell prints, I'd hate to see FA turn into DA, but selling prints and t-shirts could help maintain the site more steadily than "PLZ DONATE!"


 
It wouldn't be that tough either, surely. There's members with the set-up. Just going to one of the smaller furry printshops andtaking, say, 5% commission from each item sold would work nicely. Site gets income, printers get profit and ability to eventually expand their operations. They don't need to bother with advertising either. It's a mutual arrangement that could in theory benefit both sides.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

Bobskunk said:


> Extra RAM
> 
> Oh, and the 44U of rackspace.  Can't forget that.  It's only this expensive because they are spending more money than they need to.
> 
> in before yak's "You don't know a sixth of what's really going on and you speculate" blah blah gb2work


 
you seem to "care" much more than one would expect a rational... whoops... damn... now i can't finish that sentence.


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## Bobskunk (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> you seem to "care" much more than one would expect a rational... whoops... damn... now i can't finish that sentence.


 
you seem like a faggot

whoops


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

Bobskunk said:


> you seem like a faggot
> 
> whoops


 
really? that's the best you could come up with?

LOLOLOL


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## Bobskunk (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> really? that's the best you could come up with?
> 
> LOLOLOL


 
sure


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## Xenke (Apr 8, 2011)

Man, this is just sad.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

though, to be frank, this is a terrible thread. it's assuming that a free site is even somewhat accountable for how it spends the money it gets from ad revenue and donations. 

really, the site still works... yeah, some issues like some chuckleheads deciding that they want to "stick it to the dragoneer" for whatever reason (i suspect bawwing, butthurt pedos that are pissed that they have to migrate to pedo bunny for their fix.) but to be fair, the site has managed to stay afloat for what, six years or so?

so, if they're doing something wrong, it's not like any of us really notice or care. but then again, most of us have lives outside of a furry art website.


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## Smelge (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> though, to be frank, this is a terrible thread. it's assuming that a free site is even somewhat accountable for how it spends the money it gets from ad revenue and donations.
> 
> really, the site still works... yeah, some issues like some chuckleheads deciding that they want to "stick it to the dragoneer" for whatever reason (i suspect bawwing, butthurt pedos that are pissed that they have to migrate to pedo bunny for their fix.) but to be fair, the site has managed to stay afloat for what, six years or so?
> 
> so, if they're doing something wrong, it's not like any of us really notice or care. but then again, most of us have lives outside of a furry art website.


 
You mean apart from the site going up and down like a paraplegic yo-yo, constant requests for donations, hardware upgrades out the arse, repeated promises of site upgrades, segments of the site being removed due to security, security flaws that allow people to romp around in admin accounts, redundant hardware bought to serve projects that have never been finished, and so on and so on.

But it's hard to notice the calls for donations to cover costs when they're stuck on the front page. It's easy to ignore the people wanting to advertise who have to post threads about how their emails keep going unanswered despite the calls for money. There is no reason at all that with such a large userbase and 6 years, the place shouldn't be self-sufficient and turning enough profit to pay for those software upgrades that result in random white screens, and other site issues.

But, you know, feel free to hang around and piss yourself while screaming about how much you don't care.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

Smelge said:


> You mean apart from the site going up and down like a paraplegic yo-yo, constant requests for donations, hardware upgrades out the arse, repeated promises of site upgrades, segments of the site being removed due to security, security flaws that allow people to romp around in admin accounts, redundant hardware bought to serve projects that have never been finished, and so on and so on.
> 
> But it's hard to notice the calls for donations to cover costs when they're stuck on the front page. It's easy to ignore the people wanting to advertise who have to post threads about how their emails keep going unanswered despite the calls for money. There is no reason at all that with such a large userbase and 6 years, the place shouldn't be self-sufficient and turning enough profit to pay for those software upgrades that result in random white screens, and other site issues.
> 
> But, you know, feel free to hang around and piss yourself while screaming about how much you don't care.


 
blah, blah, blah... ITT: furries trying to overemphasize a site's failings to justify their incessant need to feel better by shitposting. 

did i say the site was perfect? no... but i just don't see a reason to bring this whole thing to light for the Nth time and beating it like a dead whore. 

but hey, we can't *all* be melodramatic drama-queens about it so carry on.

though, if the site is going up and down like a yo-yo, those must be some mighty long strings since it's been up pretty much solid for a while now.


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## kayfox (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> though, if the site is going up and down like a yo-yo, those must be some mighty long strings since it's been up pretty much solid for a while now.


 
Wasnt it dieing like last week?  Or was that it duing the week before?


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## Accountability (Apr 8, 2011)

jakejynx said:


> The recent news post on the front page has me wondering: $1695 is a lot of money per month. With no staff to pay (as far as I know), I'm curious about where that money goes and what it's used for. Can anyone shed any light?


 
That's the cost of their full 44U cabinet (and bandwidth and power) at their datacenter/host InfoRelay. People who have been inside this datacenter and have seen FA's cabinet say they could do with a cabinet 1/3 of the size, but FA insists on spending this much every month on a space they only use 1/3 of. It's like renting a three-bedroom apartment and only using one of them.

Of course, when asked about this in the past, Dragoneer said they _had_ to rent a full cabinet to get 24/7 access to the datacenter. An email to InfoRelay confirmed this is false, as long as you rent any sized private cabinet, you get 24/7 access.


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## Smelge (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> blah, blah, blah... ITT: furries trying to overemphasize a site's failings to justify their incessant need to feel better by shitposting.


 
Right, because suggestions as to how to avoid having to beg people for donations now counts as shitposting.

You're a moron. Go choke on a bag of dicks,


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

kayfox said:


> Wasnt it dieing like last week?  Or was that it duing the week before?


 
not sure as i never even noticed a downtime in the past month or so that hasn't been announced. 

but again... life... not spending every waking moment on FA... that kinda thing.



Smelge said:


> Right, because suggestions as to how to avoid having to beg people for donations now counts as shitposting.
> 
> You're a moron. Go choke on a bag of dicks,



riiiiight... because calling out the site admins for being incompetant is "suggesting."

and christ... what is it with the lame insults today?! seriously, if you're going to even try insulting someone, at least put in a little more effort to not look like some poncy grade school child during recess... i find it more insulting that you would even bother to try without bringing your A-game (assuming that you still have one.)


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## nrr (Apr 8, 2011)

jakejynx said:


> The recent news post on the front page has me wondering: $1695 is a lot of money per month. With no staff to pay (as far as I know), I'm curious about where that money goes and what it's used for. Can anyone shed any light?


  Plug, ping, and rack, almost all of it fucking frivolous, but that's fine.  The fact that people pay this much to ISVs is part of the reason why I have the paycheck that I have.


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## Accountability (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> not sure as i never even noticed a downtime in the past month or so that hasn't been announced.


 
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/94138-2011-03-09-FA-Down
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/94311-3-12-11-Partial-Services-Down
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/95176-3-24-2011-Unscheduled-Downtime

What does it matter if they're announced? They're still unscheduled downtimes.


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## kayfox (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> but again... life... not spending every waking moment on FA... that kinda thing.



I donno, maybe I just happen to go to the site at all the wrong times.  

If you have a life why are you here sucking up to the management?


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

kayfox said:


> I donno, maybe I just happen to go to the site at all the wrong times.
> 
> If you have a life why are you here sucking up to the management?


 
HAHAHAHAHAH, oh... wait a second... i think i still have some in me... HAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAAA! oh, *wipes a tear away* yeah... if you think i'm sucking up to the site admins, you have no idea who you're talking to. 

hell, i'm probably somewhat responsible for Dragoneer's blood pressure spiking at least twice in the past year. though, to be fair, given that my objective for said spikage has been met, i've toned it down (i had an objective that was a little more focused than "stick it to the admins" or "for the lulz.")


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## Ben (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> though, to be frank, this is a terrible thread. it's assuming that a free site is even somewhat accountable for how it spends the money it gets from ad revenue and donations.
> 
> really, the site still works... yeah, some issues like some chuckleheads deciding that they want to "stick it to the dragoneer" for whatever reason (i suspect bawwing, butthurt pedos that are pissed that they have to migrate to pedo bunny for their fix.) but to be fair, the site has managed to stay afloat for what, six years or so?
> 
> so, if they're doing something wrong, it's not like any of us really notice or care. but then again, most of us have lives outside of a furry art website.


 
You're looking at this in the wrong way. Consider for a moment that if you are thinking about donating to FA, one likely has no life, since they would apparently put a furry porn site ahead of a real charity (again, what kind of awful person is actually going to look at the Red Cross link, then the news post and go "FURAFFINITY NEEDS MY MONEY MORE.") If you are one of these people, you will likely want some reassurance as to where the money is going. Without it, why would you even want to donate? So, not only is a real charity being advertised right next to this, but there's also no reason to believe the money will be spent wisely.

Also, you can put your dick away, you don't have any more of a life than anyone else here, because guess what, you're weighing in on this thread. If you actually had a life, you would just hold your tongue and not bother wasting precious minutes on replying So you're not online when the site goes down-- that's great. But please, get over yourself.



			
				Redregon said:
			
		

> HAHAHAHAHAH, oh... wait a second... i think i still have some in me... HAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAAA! oh, *wipes a tear away* yeah... if you think i'm sucking up to the site admins, you have no idea who you're talking to.
> 
> hell, i'm probably somewhat responsible for Dragoneer's blood pressure spiking at least twice in the past year. though, to be fair, given that my objective for said spikage has been met, i've toned it down (i had an objective that was a little more focused than "stick it to the admins.")



Yeaaah, you really need to get over yourself.


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## nrr (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> hell, i'm probably somewhat responsible for Dragoneer's blood pressure spiking at least twice in the past year. though, to be fair, given that my objective for said spikage has been met, i've toned it down (i had an objective that was a little more focused than "stick it to the admins.")


 
You just earned yourself the label of "braggart."  This conduct is not impressive at all, so what's the point of it?


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

Ben said:


> You're looking at this in the wrong way. Consider for a moment that if you are thinking about donating to FA, one likely has no life, since they would apparently put a furry porn site ahead of a real charity (again, what kind of awful person is actually going to look at the Red Cross link, then the news post and go "FURAFFINITY NEEDS MY MONEY MORE.") If you are one of these people, you will likely want some reassurance as to where the money is going. Without it, why would you even want to donate? So, not only is a real charity being advertised right next to this, but there's also no reason to believe the money will be spent wisely.



yeah, i'll agree with you that if someone is putting a furry porn site ahead of a humanitarian charity in a time of crisis, they really should have their head examined. but to be frank, a donation is a donation. how the site spends it is really none of our business because nowhere is it said in the ToS, AUP or wherever on the wiki that users or donators are privvy to that information nor could they expect to become privvy to it. as for having no reason to believe it'd be spent wisely, well... there's the rub. there is no guarantee that it's going to be spent on site stuff at all. does that stop everyone? clearly not since without donations, this site would have tanked completely years ago. but, not everyone really gives a shit about that enough to start some rage thread about it.



Ben said:


> Also, you can put your dick away, you don't have any more of a life than anyone else here, because guess what, you're weighing in on this thread. If you actually had a life, you would just hold your tongue and not bother wasting precious minutes on replying So you're not online when the site goes down-- that's great. But please, get over yourself.



oh, so, having an opinion and stating it means having no life? when did that memo get sent out? i'd like to have a word with whomever sent it because that's some massively faulty logic being used there.



Ben said:


> Yeaaah, you really need to get over yourself.


 
... oi... has the concept of at least putting SOME effort into insults become completely lost on most of you here? cause i see y'all trying but you're just not quite reaching it.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

nrr said:


> You just earned yourself the label of "braggart."  This conduct is not impressive at all, so what's the point of it?


 
merely defending against the "neer ass kissing" label applied to me... you know, bringing a little thing called "context" to it all.

but then again, as much as it may be moot to even try and outline, it's kinda saddening that people have to stoop to such binary ways of thinking when it comes to shit... you're either with us or against us... if you're not a friend, you're an enemy... that kinda bullshit. protip: there are these things called "shades of grey." get used to them, that's kinda how the world works.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

here's what a lot of the people getting all rage-ey sound like to me.

http://youtu.be/xHnVL0-v6r4

click it, you'll learn something.


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## nrr (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> merely defending against the "neer ass kissing" label applied to me... you know, bringing a little thing called "context" to it all.



Your defensive measures are crass, corrosive, and unbecoming of someone with class.  There are far better ways of bringing "context," as you put it, to the table.



Redregon said:


> but then again, as much as it may be moot to even try and outline, it's kinda saddening that people have to stoop to such binary ways of thinking when it comes to shit... you're either with us or against us... if you're not a friend, you're an enemy... that kinda bullshit. protip: there are these things called "shades of grey." get used to them, that's kinda how the world works.


 
The irony of your statements here is that you find stooping down to the level of someone else whose viewpoint with which you disagree to be apprehensible or an act similarly vile; still, you proceed to behave in this manner.  Why?


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

nrr said:


> Your defensive measures are crass, corrosive, and unbecoming of someone with class.  There are far better ways of bringing "context," as you put it, to the table.



... and? 




nrr said:


> The irony of your statements here is that you find stooping down to the level of someone else whose viewpoint with which you disagree to be apprehensible or an act similarly vile; still, you proceed to behave in this manner.  Why?


 
you're expecting civility? on FAF of all places?

... y'all are just full of laughs tonight!


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## EugeneBelford (Apr 8, 2011)

Did you seriously post 3 times in a row to try and prove how little you care?

Great Job!

There is no reason any site of this sort needs a 44U rack, a load balancer, 100 GB of RAM, a URL shortener, et al, especially when basic internet security practices continue to be ignored. Can we get some of the $1700/mo redirected towards fixing the existing brokenness, instead? Or is merely suggesting this grounds for a permaban?


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## Armaetus (Apr 8, 2011)

The site can probably function on HALF of what it's currently using, hardwarewise.

Which can save a decent chunk of cash for Neer to use on other things that are needed, such as a coder or two to fix the codebase.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

EugeneBelford said:


> Did you seriously post 3 times in a row to try and prove how little you care?
> 
> Great Job!


 
naw, just wasn't arsed enough to edit my previous replies to insert the quotes. besides, the site and how it's run... yeah, that i don't really care about. but i do care about poking retards with sharp sticks. (it's just too satisfying to pass up.)


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## EugeneBelford (Apr 8, 2011)

Posting a lot is a curious way of expressing how little you care. Maybe you should reevaluate this line of thinking. Meanwhile, OP's questions stand.


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## Armaetus (Apr 8, 2011)

Too much bullshit flinging by Redregon and a few others :V

Take the meanie talk to private :V


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## kayfox (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> but again... life... not spending every waking moment on FA... that kinda thing.



OMG, this life thing is soo cool, why hadint I ever heard of it before.

At any rate here, why does FA need to spend $1695 a month on a full rack with 250MBit connection and dual 20A circuits?


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## Eevee (Apr 8, 2011)

Acknowledging Redregon's outbursts just legitimizes them.  The guy is neither expressing a coherent viewpoint nor responding rationally; why is that worth replying to?

Regarding the original question: the $1695 is the exact amount FA pays for its mostly-empty rack and bandwidth every month.  $0 goes to software development, and $0 goes to UI design.  (I'm actually not sure whether the UI design is still in progress; there hasn't been a peep since the related thread petered out.)


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

Eevee said:


> Acknowledging Redregon's outbursts just legitimizes them.  The guy is neither expressing a coherent viewpoint nor responding rationally; why is that worth replying to?
> 
> Regarding the original question: the $1695 is the exact amount FA pays for its mostly-empty rack and bandwidth every month.  $0 goes to software development, and $0 goes to UI design.  (I'm actually not sure whether the UI design is still in progress; there hasn't been a peep since the related thread petered out.)


 
hehee, yep, that's it entirely! because i'm saying something that is going against the grain and not pandering to the lulzy bitches that like to set up shop here on FAF, i'm incoherent nor rational. yeah, you sure got me there. /sarcasm 9_9


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## jakejynx (Apr 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> though, to be frank, this is a terrible thread.


 
It really wasn't intended to be! I was only curious about why the site requires so much per month. There's no hidden agenda or attempt to cause drama. Just innocent curiosity.


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## jakejynx (Apr 8, 2011)

I learned my lesson... Don't bring up the site or its finances on the FAF...

What a clusterfuck, guys.


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## Redregon (Apr 8, 2011)

well, kinda... these threads tend to bring out the "DEATH TO NEER" crowd. honestly? if it was legit curiosity, i'd suggest PMing a mod or admin about the matter. best way to filter out the lifeless retards.


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## Ben (Apr 9, 2011)

Redregon said:


> hehee, yep, that's it entirely! because i'm saying something that is going against the grain and not pandering to the lulzy bitches that like to set up shop here on FAF, i'm incoherent nor rational. yeah, you sure got me there. /sarcasm 9_9


 
You're claiming that no one here has a right to know where the donation money is going, while failing to acknowledge that FA cannot reasonably expect anyone to donate if they don't know what's going to happen to their cash. Of course, this is furry, and there will be likely be many people who will just fling money blindly at the site-- but they _should _want to know how their donations will be used, instead of recklessly using their finances, and making a conscious decision to donate to a furry porn site instead of to a legitimate charity organization. Do you wipe your ass with dollar bills, just so you can have the pleasure of flushing them down the toilet? No really, I'm curious.


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## jcfynx (Apr 9, 2011)

Ben said:


> You're looking at this in the wrong way. Consider for a moment that if you are thinking about donating to FA, one likely has no life, since they would apparently put a furry porn site ahead of a real charity (again, what kind of awful person is actually going to look at the Red Cross link, then the news post and go "FURAFFINITY NEEDS MY MONEY MORE.") If you are one of these people, you will likely want some reassurance as to where the money is going. Without it, why would you even want to donate? So, not only is a real charity being advertised right next to this, but there's also no reason to believe the money will be spent wisely.


 
ITT: Business ethics for babies.

People who donate to FA are no worse than people who don't donate to anything. They like having the site around and it's worth a few dollars to them. The money for every website has to come from somewhere, and FA gets it from users who happen to value the site.


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## Accountability (Apr 9, 2011)

Redregon said:


> well, kinda... these threads tend to bring out the "DEATH TO NEER" crowd. honestly? if it was legit curiosity, i'd suggest PMing a mod or admin about the matter. best way to filter out the lifeless retards.


 
I pretty sure none of us want Dragoneer to die. You seem to be getting those of us who want to see a better FA confused with the crazy people who were in here after the cub porn ban.


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## Redregon (Apr 9, 2011)

Ben said:


> You're claiming that no one here has a right to know where the donation money is going,



exactly... 



Ben said:


> while failing to acknowledge that FA cannot reasonably expect anyone to donate if they don't know what's going to happen to their cash.



is that really anyone's business? no, it's not. the people arguing for this are just a bunch of nosey bitches that just don't understand the difference between "right" and "privilige." it's that same kind of self-entitled attitude that lead to all sorts of bullshit in the past. frankly, if you think you deserve to know where it goes, you have a very inflated sense of self worth to think that you matter enough to justify said information being given to you.

translation, it really isn't any of your or anyone's damn business where the money goes. trying to insinuate otherwise is just being a nosy little bitch.



Ben said:


> Of course, this is furry, and there will be likely be many people who will just fling money blindly at the site-- but they _should _want to know how their donations will be used, instead of recklessly using their finances, and making a conscious decision to donate to a furry porn site instead of to a legitimate charity organization. *Do you wipe your ass with dollar bills, just so you can have the pleasure of flushing them down the toilet? No really, I'm curious*.


 
you think you're being cute, but really you're just being a moronic little cunt. stop it. you are capable of far better than that and it's ridiculously insulting to you and others here when you try and be this way. you're an adult now, it's about time you start behaving like one.


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## Ben (Apr 9, 2011)

Ben said:


> is that really anyone's business? no, it's not. the people arguing for this are just a bunch of nosey bitches that just don't understand the difference between "right" and "privilige." it's that same kind of self-entitled attitude that lead to all sorts of bullshit in the past. frankly, if you think you deserve to know where it goes, you have a very inflated sense of self worth to think that you matter enough to justify said information being given to you.
> 
> translation, it really isn't any of your or anyone's damn business where the money goes. trying to insinuate otherwise is just being a nosy little bitch.



Why do you believe it's such sensitive information as to where donation money goes? This idea seems to be based on entirely nothing, that such information must be guarded with great secrecy. Your entire argument pretty much flows like this: "Nobody has the right to know where the donation money goes!" "Why not?" "BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T OKAY." So you're seriously saying you would donate to a cause without having any idea of how it would be spent? I mean, okay then.



> you think you're being cute, but really you're just being a moronic little cunt. stop it. you are capable of far better than that and it's ridiculously insulting to you and others here when you try and be this way. you're an adult now, it's about time you start behaving like one.


 
making jokes now reserved for children only, new internet rule forged by serious sam, 2011


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## Smelge (Apr 9, 2011)

I like how site improvement suggestions and pointing out that laziness has stopped many things = Death to Dragoneer.

At no point in this thread has anyone suggested Dragoneer needs to leave, die or do anything other than put a little time in to simple solutions towards improvement and self-sufficiency. Yeah, you can go on now about how it's pointless and wrong to suggest things, but what exactly do you think is going to happen when Dragoneer goes "fuck this shit, I don't want to pay for this" or "not enough donations, time to shut the site"? If things require donations to keep the site online, then something is wrong. Ignore the excess hardware and other redundant stuff. Site needs money to survive. Money comes from donations and dragoneer.

Ideally, actually using the site to raise the amount required from donations is the best solution instead of hoping people are nice enough to give cash over. The simplest of the money-making solutions is the adspace, which has a queue and is very hard to get a response to. If people are lining up to give you money, the last thing you do is ignore them.

And as I said in my first post, a few other ideas are all that are needed to get this site not relying on donations.

But, you know, let's just go with ignoring my points because you feel the need to be a complete gimp.


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## Redregon (Apr 9, 2011)

Ben said:


> Why do you believe it's such sensitive information as to where donation money goes? This idea seems to be based on entirely nothing, that such information must be guarded with great secrecy. Your entire argument pretty much flows like this: "Nobody has the right to know where the donation money goes!" "Why not?" "BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T OKAY." So you're seriously saying you would donate to a cause without having any idea of how it would be spent? I mean, okay then.



i'm not saying it's sensitive information, i'm just saying that it's none of your god-damned business.



Smelge said:


> I like how site improvement suggestions and pointing out that laziness has stopped many things = Death to Dragoneer.



oh, so, y'all are allowed to overexaggerate the issue but i'm not? nice... good to know that the doublestandard for internet arguments is still up and going.

the rest... well, you're right, i am going to ignore it.. .but then if you had bothered to actually put some actual thought into it and realize that sites can and often do survive merely on donations (which i will admit is silly since the mainsite is RIPE for a pay-for-perks system which would probably bring in enough cash to make donations a moot point) your post would likely not have happened.

pull your head out of your ass please... i don't smell the shit that you do and i really would rather not.


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## Xenke (Apr 9, 2011)

Man, this thread is making me so flaccid. So many assumptions and so much shit throwing.

Things about donating to FA:

The Amount: It's all accounted for. Might not be the most reduced price that FA could have to pay, but as it stands it's the necessary amount to keep the site up.
Where it Goes: It's going to go into the site, one way or another. My bet is that $1695 of it is going to go into the operating costs. Jeez.
How it's raised: Here's the thing, *aren't the ads supposed to cut this cost a little bit?* Or maybe I'm missing the point of the ads. Regardless, the people donating. Just because they donate to this site doesn't mean they aren't donating to other thing, like ASPCA, Humane Societies, Red Cross, etc. And obviously, there are ways for the site to actually generate the amount of money it needs, thought I recommend the site actually get fixed before they try to implement them.
Reason for Donating: Keeping the site we all hate to love, and love to hate, up and running. Duh.


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## Redregon (Apr 9, 2011)

Zercompf-Sanika said:


> you're dumb
> please stop posting



well, since you put it that way, fuck you too, princess.


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## Ben (Apr 9, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Regardless, the people donating. Just because they donate to this site doesn't mean they aren't donating to other thing, like ASPCA, Humane Societies, Red Cross, etc. And obviously, there are ways for the site to actually generate the amount of money it needs, thought I recommend the site actually get fixed before they try to implement them.


 
Eh, if I'm going to ever donate to a furry site (breath, holding, not recommended), I'd rather do it for one that's actually earned it, like SoFurry, or Eevee's upcoming site (Yeah, the general IQ over at SF isn't terribly high right now, but if 2.0 ends up being any good, then who cares really). And yeah, I know not everyone who donates to FA will snub real charities in the process, but you know there's gonna be at least one guy who does this. It's almost like a test to find out how awful you are, except we the public will never know. ):


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## Smelge (Apr 9, 2011)

Xenke said:


> How it's raised: Here's the thing, *aren't the ads supposed to cut this cost a little bit?* Or maybe I'm missing the point of the ads.


 
In theory. Check site support though. A lot of people have complained that they've applied for adspace, but their emails have never been answered. It's a recurring problem. Pissing off the people trying to give you cash is not the brightest plan.


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## PieCreature (Apr 9, 2011)

Okay so you dont want to donate because you dont like the site. sorry but others do and you'll just have to deal with it.


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## Accountability (Apr 9, 2011)

dragonzoomer said:


> Okay so you dont want to donate because you dont like the site. sorry but others do and you'll just have to deal with it.


 
I'm really getting tired of the "anyone who complains about the site must hate it" thing. There's a reason we're complaining. If we truly hated the site, none of us would be *offering to help it*, would we?


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## Ben (Apr 9, 2011)

It's not the pot calling the kettle black if I've made several contributive and on-topic posts prior to that one, versus one post that's just making fun of the post above me. Settle down with the snark.



			
				Accountability said:
			
		

> I'm really getting tired of the "anyone who complains about the site must hate it" thing. There's a reason we're complaining. If we truly hated the site, none of us would be offering to help it, would we?



Really, he just needs to flesh out his post in general. I really don't know how anyone could respond to that -except- making fun of it, it's just so thin and brute.


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## CerbrusNL (Apr 10, 2011)

Ben said:


> It's not the pot calling the kettle black if I've made several contributive and on-topic posts prior to that one, versus one post that's just making fun of the post above me. Settle down with the snark.


 Several on topic posts don't give you free offtopic credit. That's all I'll say on it, in this thread.


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## Ben (Apr 10, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> Several on topic posts don't give you free offtopic credit. That's all I'll say on it, in this thread.



But being a mod gives you offtopic credit?

Actually, your post isn't any more off-topic than what I wrote-- it was merely making fun of the post above me for being lacking. The only place that could have possibly led was the person exploding in a fiery ball of rage, which I likely wouldn't have responded to, or the person fleshing out their very bare bones post, and the discussion continuing as normal. There was absolutely nothing about my post that could have spurned a topic drift, and yet you felt a need to take an unnecessary pre-emptive measure. I know it was just a warning, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't delete my posts unnecessarily with snarky deletion reasons so I look like a jerk. I actually sent you a PM to this effect, so I would ask that you refrain from giving me that long sought after infraction to push me into ban town, since you apparently chose to ignore it and respond here, despite it being plenty kind and reasonable.

Really though, the irony is this off-topic posting is only happening because you decided to try and stop it when it wasn't even happening-- like the Streisand Effect transforming into mecha mode. Can we just go back to getting along, instead of what seems to be grasping for reasons to embarrass me? I think I've stated my case well enough.

Anyway, everyone go back to discussing the topic at hand. Cool? Cool.


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## CerbrusNL (Apr 10, 2011)

Ben, Just stop already. Stop telling me how to moderate, stop whining about a warning for a offtopic post. Like you said, the only plausible response to that post, was "that person exploding in rage". Hence the warning. I mean, if that ain't intentional thread derailment... I could have written the deletion reason as "Inciting drama", "This post is just as insightful as the post you quoted." etc, but I doubt that'd have made any difference.

You might not realize it, but responding to a warning like this, in public, ain't exactly boosting your public image, either. Next time, as you've been told before, if you wish to appeal a infraction or warning, report the PM you receive. Don't send me 3 PM's about it. If you have to, compose a PM, add to it, then send it later.


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## Ben (Apr 10, 2011)

I'm going to respond to this in a PM. Everyone, go back to discussing the topic at hand and such. Conspiracies and all that. Effortpost.


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## jcfynx (Apr 10, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> Ben, Just stop already. Stop telling me how to moderate, stop whining about a warning for a offtopic post. Like you said, the only plausible response to that post, was "that person exploding in rage". Hence the warning. I mean, if that ain't intentional thread derailment... I could have written the deletion reason as "Inciting drama", "This post is just as insightful as the post you quoted." etc, but I doubt that'd have made any difference.
> 
> You might not realize it, but responding to a warning like this, in public, ain't exactly boosting your public image, either. Next time, as you've been told before, if you wish to appeal a infraction or warning, report the PM you receive. Don't send me 3 PM's about it. If you have to, compose a PM, add to it, then send it later.


 
Cerbrus-chan, your post has raised several questions in my mind.

1. Why are you writing this PM to Ben in a thread rather than as a PM to Ben?

2. Do you find being critical of posters and bringing up their disciplinary history in public to be appropriate? Why or why not? What effect do you feel it has on a thread? Please use examples and cite sources.

3. What does it have to do with the topic?

4. Do you consider making the thread about your issue derailment?

5. For what purpose are we reading this conversation between you and Ben?

6. Do you feel there is irony involved in telling a user that responding to you publicly is bad for their image in a post where you, also, respond publicly to this private matter, only further discrediting your maturity and capacity as a community leader? Why or why not?

Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from you.

- jc


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## Paul'o'fox (Apr 11, 2011)

You see, hosting a website isn't free. It costs a hell of a lot because you have to pay for a server to host it on, you have to pay for the web adress. You can't just go making a website for free unless you have a host site, which FA doesn't have.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 11, 2011)

I just want to say that, Redregon, please don't speak for the staff. I think it's very aggravating to say the least. While we all have different mindsets, I do understand people asking about the donations, but I do agree with the simple fact that if you aren't sure where your money is being donated to, do not donate.

This is just common sense to about any organization that accepts donations. Look at various natural disasters for example and "charities" that pop up when it happens.

I do find that being able to talk about it to a degree (where the donations are going) is reasonable, but at the same time people have to understand everything shouldn't be niggled (and I know you're going to do it). Because of the niggling for even small amounts of info it set or caused a schism in ideal of how staff should share information with the public. 

Personally, it causes frustration with both ends. The users, which there are those who are reasonable in the requests and the extremists. Then we have the staff where it becomes divided.

So I don't really have a solution for that given the long history, and in before some other staff member cries about undermining staff - considering I'd say it as much to their face as on here.


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## kayfox (Apr 11, 2011)

Paul'o'fox said:


> You see, hosting a website isn't free. It costs a hell of a lot because you have to pay for a server to host it on, you have to pay for the web adress. You can't just go making a website for free unless you have a host site, which FA doesn't have.


 
I could be argued, easily, that FA can save alot of money on running the site.  Take for example, the rack, why do they need a full rack when they dont even have near that many machines to rack?   Hell, why do they need 10 machines in the rack when they only use 3?  Why do they need a load balancer that they are not even going to use for months?  Theres just alot of things that beg the question of "why are you doing this when you really dont have to."  And these things cost FA money that it does not have.  Hence why their now selling over 100GB of "excess RAM."


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