# Windows 8 WTF?



## Tailmon1 (Oct 25, 2013)

I normally help out people that have minor computer issues. A friend was having 
issues with his new laptop. He wanted to transfer his favorites, programs and his
pictures to it from his Desktop. Really not an issue but when I turned on his laptop
it has Windows 8 on it and I went WTF because its like made for another world 
or something. I cant even find the My computer setting on the dam thing!


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 25, 2013)

[yt]WTYet-qf1jo[/yt]


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## Saga (Oct 25, 2013)

there should be a desktop tile on that start page that, when clicked, takes you to a windows 7 interface. If you really cant find anything, hit the windows button + w at the same time and type the program you're looking for in the search bar.


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## Tailmon1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Saga said:


> there should be a desktop tile on that start page that, when clicked, takes you to a windows 7 interface. If you really cant find anything, hit the windows button + w at the same time and type the program you're looking for in the search bar.



Thanks guys i'll give it a try. Right now the laptop is charging. I think it came loaded with 8 and I'm not impressed with it.


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## DrDingo (Oct 26, 2013)

When I first got a Windows 8 laptop, I was a little skeptical. Now I love it. It's so much faster to access things when you can just press the start button and click on a tile.
For a computer that is being used primarily for work or business though, I'd say that Windows 7 is a more effective option.


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## Ikrit (Oct 26, 2013)

windows 8 and 8.1 isn't as bad as people say it is, but it still got some bugs and kinks in it that need to be straighten out...


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## Runefox (Oct 26, 2013)

People keep thinking the Metro interface is the main/only interface Windows 8 has to offer, but it's really just a full-screen start menu. That's really all it is. It has apps and stuff but it functions exactly the same as the old start menu, and in 8.1 it's actually laid out a little better with quicker access to your programs. 8.1 also gives you the option of booting directly to the desktop, so if it's really that confusing for you and your friend, I'd recommend upgrading to 8.1. It's in the Store tile on the start screen, and it's free for Windows 8 users.

Explorer actually got a really nice overhaul with a lot of common settings right there on the ribbon (a checkbox for hidden items instead of going to the options screen and digging through the list of items? Yes please), and if you right-click in the lower left corner of the screen you'll find a quick list of extremely handy utilities right there. Task Manager is also a lot better in Windows 8, as is multiple monitor support and really most everything. If you're really not able to get over the start screen, there's programs available to replace the old start button and menu, and beyond that it's all upgrades over 7.


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## ArielMT (Oct 27, 2013)

The two biggest problems with Windows 8 are that Microsoft designed an interface that's grossly inappropriate for a desktop or laptop PC, and that Microsoft didn't include any instructions of any kind introducing new users to the OS's operation.  In a nutshell, Windows 8's new user experience is what people expect the Linux new user experience to be.  If it wasn't for the user experience, then Windows 8 would be across-the-board as much better than Windows 7 as Windows 7 is than Windows Vista.

In answer to the thread title, the WTF is that Microsoft's Windows division smoked from the iPhone bong.

Now to how-tos:

Drag and drop the Start Screen tiles how you want.  Make new tile groups by dragging tiles beyond the right-most or left-most group.  Right-click on a tile to select it and bring up some options: unpin apps, un_install_ apps, or shrink/grow the tile.

Click on the minus-sign button at the far right end of the bottom scrollbar to get a tile group overview.  Drag and drop tile _groups_ to change their order.  Right-click a tile group to bring up the option to name or rename the tile group.

Right-click an empty part of the Start Screen and click on the "Apps" button to get a list of all apps installed, followed by a list of all menus and icons that would be in a conventional Start Menu.  Right-click on one to bring up the option to pin it to the Start Screen.  (By default, it's pinned to a new group at the far right of the Start Screen.)

I'd suggest making the Desktop app the first tile in the first group.

To close a Metro app, point the arrow at the top edge (where it turns into a hand), drag all the way down from the top to the bottom, and let go when the app preview drops to the bottom edge.  Some apps, like the Desktop, don't make sense to close, but the same action works to dismiss it without closing it.  (It's at least _that_ consistent.)

If you have more than one app open (and the Desktop counts as one), then you can drag from the top to either right or left end to dock the app as a side app.  (Many apps don't know how to behave as a side app.)

The quickest way out of a Metro app is hitting the Windows logo key.

The most visual way out of Windows is Start Screen -> Your account name/icon -> "Sign off" -> Click on the lock screen -> Power icon in the lower right corner -> "Turn off."

There are Windows 8 keyboard shortcuts, but I've never figured out how to print this page without copy/pasting or hand-copying it.  Edit: There's also a getting-around tutorial page for Windows 8, but of course you have to already know where it is in order to learn it.


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## ToeClaws (Oct 29, 2013)

The reality is that Windows 8 and other modern OS's like the IOS, Android and so on are made to appeal to the masses by being a simple "mash this picture to do stuff" interface.  They are likely hear to stay.  The fix for the Windows 8 "WTF" factor would be simple on Microsoft's part - just let the user choose the interface environment they want, but "choice"  and listening to their customers has never been their strong point.    Windows 8.1 does at least allow a little more flexibility, but it's still not great.  

Everything that you need is still there,  you just need to go through the "desktop" which is technically the explorer shell to get to it.    You can think of Windows 8 as two completely independent and largely incompatible environments (shells):

Windows 8 (aka Metro): Full screen, windowless "app" interface.  Touch friendly, thus apps designed around touch functionality work best.  Mostly useless for any real computing though.

Desktop (aka Explorer shell): Windowed programs with a taskbar.  All the more normal program stuff is here.  You can find the Windows Explorer file manager and other useful stuff.  Also, note that some programs like Internet Explorer are actually completely different programs for each shell.  IE in Metro is very basic while IE under Desktop is the full/normal browser with configurable options and such.

Alternatively, there is always "the talk", where you can attempt to explain to the user that they likely don't need Windows and shouldn't be using it unless there is some inescapable reason that they have to have that particular OS.  Given the steep learning curve that Windows 8 is for new users, it is a prime opportunity to move them to an alternate OS.  

Good luck.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 29, 2013)

See people keep suggesting using keyboard shortcuts that had alternative ways of accessing the same thing.

Basically Metro and the Start Menu is like. Glossary vs bookmark.

When you have an interface that's very in your face people are going to complain. It's like having to go to the glossary of a book, where the start menu feels like a less intrusive bookmark on a desktop. For *compatible* mobile devices it's not as bad. Notice I said compatible, because even with older tablets Windows 8 handles like a pain in the ass, and before people are like "oh well it's for newer devices" *Microsoft fucking advertised that it would bring new life and faster speeds to older devices*


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## Tailmon1 (Oct 29, 2013)

I spent the last couple of days messing with the laptop that the man handed to me.
I have to say that windows 8 is usless for a laptop or computer. You have no touch
screen and the whole set up is rather confusing and that was his problem. I did 
manage to figure out how to put his pictures on using a thumb drive and that was 
such fun trying to find it and make it run with such a bizzar program. Still more fun 
was loading his new printer program from disk. Instead of a icon or warning you have
nothing saying its being run or that the disk is even being run. Again I spent lots 
of time locating the My computer interface to make sure it was running and then
load it. Pretty much windowe 8 is crap for any laptiop or desktop to use.


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## kitsunekoneko (Oct 30, 2013)

To be honest I don't know what makes Win8 so hard to learn for people. Maybe it's because I'm a computer person and I might know a bit more than the average person, but it really doesn't seem the difficult either way. You press the windows button and you have shortcuts to everything. You can press the windows button, type, and find whatever you need in a half second. If your machine is good at all you should have a very good, quick startup. Some of these things the guy pointed out are things that are literally displayed to you the first time you start your PC up, but if you're a random person trying out the OS in bestbuy then I guess that's a valid point.

What I DO understand though, is the thing about the "goblin farting in your face" in the video. The mouse swiping thing. Tbh that is the worst thing I can think of right now, because it's triggered by swiping on your touchpad. And it's fucking annoying. Usually I go way too far to explode over people who used win8 for 5 minutes and go "I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT" but_ the swiping feature is the most useless, badly made feature I have ever had to sit through._ Now the thing is that if I play PC games that need you to use a cursor, I can't use my pen tablet as a mouse (like I usually do, I actually have no mouse at all, just my tablet and lenovo touchpad) or else the thing goes batshit crazy and spins around incessantly. So I'd be playing Portal 2 and the goddamn thing would keep switching out of fullview. Even when there were no Win8 apps to switch to, it would drop right out of fullscreen. Annoying. I'm really hoping this doesn't happen to mice devices. I was also really hoping Win8.1 would either take this useless feature away or at least give us an option to turn it off. Still not sure how to turn it off.
I'm actually happy with win8 but I still don't understand why the swipe thing exists.


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## ArielMT (Oct 30, 2013)

kitsunekoneko said:


> To be honest I don't know what makes Win8 so hard to learn for people. Maybe it's because I'm a computer person and I might know a bit more than the average person, but it really doesn't seem the difficult either way. You press the windows button and you have shortcuts to everything.



I had never spent more than ten minutes figuring out how to properly turn off an alien OS.  Even in OpenBSD, probably the least friendly Unix still out there, all I had to do was read what it told me to read and call up the manpage for the "shutdown" command.  Plan 9 from Bell Labs, an OS even more alien than Unix, was quicker and easier.  Windows 2.0, just close MS-DOS Executive, and you're asked.  Windows 3.0/3.1/WFW, just close Program Manager, and you're asked.  Windows 95/98/ME and Windows NT 4.0/2000/XP/Vista/7, just click on Start, and the choice is right there.  In Windows 8 for the first time, it took me not less than half an hour to figure it out, and two more days to find another way that didn't involve a boxing match with a corner of the screen.

Computers perform best when they're designed to adapt themselves to their users.  Windows 8 requires its users to adapt themselves to the computer in alien, unintuitive ways.  It doesn't matter that it behaves itself once you figure out what it seems to want and what little things it throws a tantrum about.  It's hyped as being simple, easy, and straightforward, and it's actually none of those things.


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## kitsunekoneko (Oct 30, 2013)

That's true. I can admit that it's not straightforward at all, with the exception of a few things it tells you upon initial startup. For some reason I adapted a lot faster than most other people I guess? I think that's just one thing I'm good at, then.
And now that you say that, I do remember looking for the shutdown button and getting really confused. I had to ask my brother who had win8 for a while before. Sad really.


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## Tailmon1 (Oct 30, 2013)

I really think its simpler if I could change it to windows 7. Is that possible. The friend 
is older than myself and he can figure out Vista so windows 8 is like teaching him 
Russian at his age.


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## ToeClaws (Oct 30, 2013)

Agreed on the "simpler if [you] could change it to Windows 7" thing.  One of the most frustrating things about Windows 8 (and 8.1) is that, aside from the god-awful new interface, it's actually a REALLY good improvement over Windows 7.  It's smaller, more efficient, and has vastly overhauled software and code.  Microsoft could fix everything that's wrong by simply giving people a choice in the sort of shell that they have.

Much as I hate Microsoft (and Apple, and any large and controlling corporation), the problem is not unique to Windows 8.  Take Ubuntu - one of the most popular Linux distributions.  They decided over a year ago to switch to the Unity interface, and just like Windows 8, it's awful.  They used to use Gnome 2.2, which had a far more normal task-centric style of shell, but when Gnome announced they were changing, Ubuntu decided to do their own thing and switch to Unity.  But even Gnome itself is a further example - Gnome 3.x is, like Windows 8 and Unity, very application centric and not very usable.  

There seems to be a very odd push by not just the corporations but open-source communities as well to shove application, touch-based type interfaces at the user.  While they certainly have their place (phones, tablets and such), they are not overly useful on full computers.  Now, not everyone is doing this - there are some who get that the two worlds are different and require different interfaces.  For now, Apple is keeping the IOS and MAC OSX as separate worlds.  Other popular Linux distributions like Mint have offered a number of task-centric interfaces (Cinnamon, MATE, XFCE and such), and even direct Ubuntu variants offer other shells, like Lubuntu or Xubuntu.

We're just missing that choice when it comes to Windows. :/  There are at least programs that can return the Start button and some semblance of proper desktop function to Windows 8 - maybe these would be good to offer you friend (and keep around for other Windows 8 encounters):

http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/stor..._a_traditional_start_menu_and_vice_versa.html


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 30, 2013)

The thing is the overhaul is nice, the GUI with Metro is slapped on. You have people who use a mouse for most of their times, they shouldn't have to learn cute shortcut keys. It's like Photoshop. A person learns shortcuts AFTER using it for a long time. They still can find a lot of what is necessary through navigational mouse clicks.

It also doesn't help that they assigned certain mouse clicks without asking first, so like that video states you get frustrated when shit is popping up. I mean the most annoyance I got was that stupid sticky keys prompt.

It might be easier to add a start menu. I added Pokki - http://www.pokki.com/windows-8-start-menu


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## Sharg (Oct 31, 2013)

I have Windows 8 on a laptop I got at home and after months of using it, I still stand by my opinion that it is a horrible abomination and I will continue to use 7 until they force me to use 8.

8 is like they made an OS for tablets and slapped it on all desktops.


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## Saga (Oct 31, 2013)

What is so bad about 8

No, really. Im serious, I have never had any issue with it at all. It's literally just windows 7 but with a full screen start menu. It has a desktop. It has "my computer". The main reason people hate it is because they don't know how to use it, or are trying to use it like it's windows 7 (a completely different os, wow! such amaze)


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## Runefox (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't really see what's so different about Win8 that makes it terrible aside from the Start Screen. It's something you can bypass with a start menu replacement like the one Arshes suggested, and beyond that it's almost exactly like Windows 7 except a lot cleaner and more polished. You almost never need to use any kind of Metro app at all.



Saga said:


> (...) or are trying to use it like it's windows 7


You actually can use it just like Windows 7. I am, except I accept that the Start Screen isn't anything special and use it exactly like I used the Start Menu - Hit Windows key, start typing, run program.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 1, 2013)

It doesn't work well with my network drives so as far as I'm concerned Windows 8 can go fuck itself. I had tech support call me at *3 am in the fucking morning* from Microsoft unable to solve the problem, and pointing fingers back at the router company. It worked fine before on windows 7, it was not the tablet.

If their tech support is too fucking retarded to invest in the world clock app and call at the appropriate times then yeah fuck them.


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## ArielMT (Nov 1, 2013)

Saga said:


> What is so bad about 8
> 
> No, really. Im serious, I have never had any issue with it at all. It's literally just windows 7 but with a full screen start menu. It has a desktop. It has "my computer". The main reason people hate it is because they don't know how to use it, or are trying to use it like it's windows 7 (a completely different os, wow! such amaze)



Since experiencing Windows 8 first hand, the only things I've found fatally wrong with Windows 8 are the alien expectations of Metro combined with the complete lack of new-user access to meaningful end-user training, be it by included literature or by an online tutorial program, and the usual new NT version's expectations resulting in device incompatibility.  Driver gap is expected, even this late after launch.  However, nearly everything a Windows 8 user learns about how to use it is coming from other Windows 8 users, representing a spectrum of knowledge ranging from incompetent to expert, when all of it should be coming directly from Microsoft.


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## Runefox (Nov 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It doesn't work well with my network drives so as far as I'm concerned Windows 8 can go fuck itself. I had tech support call me at *3 am in the fucking morning* from Microsoft unable to solve the problem, and pointing fingers back at the router company. It worked fine before on windows 7, it was not the tablet.


Has this been resolved? I might be able to lend you a hand on that one.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 1, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Has this been resolved? I might be able to lend you a hand on that one.



No, after back and forth for months - they said it was a known issue and will contact me when it does get resolved.


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## Lobar (Nov 1, 2013)

Well my school is offering free 8.1 upgrades to students so what the hell, here we go.  Gonna find out how unintuitive and awful this thing really is.


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## Tailmon1 (Nov 1, 2013)

Well after figuring it out and taking the laptop back to the man and showing him how to use it. He
sighed and handied the laptop back to me. "Its to complex and I still don't understand it. Can you 
find a way to put windows Vista or 7 back on it?" He told me. I figured he would say that. After a 
certain age some people just don't want to mess with something new. So The note book is new and 
was turned on and messed with several months back now how am I going to lut 7 on it? I figured 
make an attempt at calling HP and seeing if they would do it or do I end up buying the program?


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## Lobar (Nov 1, 2013)

Unless you have a Windows 7 license and product key not currently in use, you're going to have to buy it.  Get the 64-bit version.

edit: before spending money, try installing a "dehancement" mod like StartIsBack or Classic Shell and see if that makes it more user-friendly.


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## Gnarl (Nov 1, 2013)

Tailmon1 said:


> Well after figuring it out and taking the laptop back to the man and showing him how to use it. He
> sighed and handied the laptop back to me. "Its to complex and I still don't understand it. Can you
> find a way to put windows Vista or 7 back on it?" He told me. I figured he would say that. After a
> certain age some people just don't want to mess with something new. So The note book is new and
> ...


You know if the thing had windows seven on it originally you could just use the F8 at startup and reset factory defaults. Warning all data will be lost unless you back it up first!


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 1, 2013)

Gnarl said:


> You know if the thing had windows seven on it originally you could just use the F8 at startup and reset factory defaults. Warning all data will be lost unless you back it up first!



I seriously doubt it if you actually carefully read the post and know the market.

But to spell it out.
New laptop
New laptops are loaded with Windows 8


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## Runefox (Nov 1, 2013)

Tailmon1 said:


> Well after figuring it out and taking the laptop back to the man and showing him how to use it. He
> sighed and handied the laptop back to me. "Its to complex and I still don't understand it. Can you
> find a way to put windows Vista or 7 back on it?" He told me. I figured he would say that. After a
> certain age some people just don't want to mess with something new. So The note book is new and
> ...


You have to buy it.


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## Gnarl (Nov 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I seriously doubt it if you actually carefully read the post and knoe the market.
> 
> But to spell it out.
> New laptop
> New laptops are loaded with Windows 8


typing on a new one! It came with windows 8. It sucks because of one fact... Windows 8 was designed for devices with a touch screen and a lot of laptops are not touch screen.
When ever I try to move the mouse with the touchpad, if my finger is on the right side of the pad it will give me the menu bars on the right, if it is on the left side it will switch to any other screens I might have open. It also does not have the right capability to handle my original e-mail (format issue). I had to purchase several of the programs that were on my last computer separate and some were just unavailable for windows 8.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 1, 2013)

That's what the video I posted outlined it pretty well. It's using shortcuts and windows 8 doesn't bother to explain these to users. So people were going crazy trying to figure out why certain things kept happening with mouse moves.

It's just as bad with a tablet PC, metro doesn't want to recognize certain clicks with my pens. So another reason it can fuck itself lol.


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## redhusky17 (Nov 10, 2013)

i too have problem with my network driver , i cant update it (even if i upgraded from 7 to 8 or did clean install, even updating my bios) 
if i try to update it, any new version that i have currently , it wont work 
all other drivers are updated to the latest version


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## ArielMT (Nov 25, 2013)

Bump because Windows 8 is still full of WTF.



Lobar said:


> Well my school is offering free 8.1 upgrades to students so what the hell, here we go.  Gonna find out how unintuitive and awful this thing really is.



The upgrade to 8.1 appears to be free to every Windows 8 machine, Pro and RT.  The 64-bit Pro version's a 3.63 GB app available in the Microsoft Store, and I had to answer a tech support call about Windows 8 blocking the entire screen with a request to upgrade.  I clocked it at an hour and 20 minutes from finishing the download (50%) to the first reboot, then 40 minutes through three reboots to get to the out-of-box experience (OOBE).

I wonder how many others shat bricks when the OOBE said it was going to have the user set up a new account.  It kept everything on mine, after forgetting my password and needing out-of-band verification, but I don't know how it behaves when the accounts are local instead of Microsoft.

Microsoft fixed many of the user interface problems with Windows 8, including broken apps/settings searches and nearly unusable Store and Xbox Games apps (unless you wanted nothing but "popular" apps), but the most egregious are still there.  To their credit, the upgrade installed a new app on the Start screen called "Help+Tips," which actually teaches pretty well how to use the damn thing.  But it doesn't run as part of the OOBE; you have to scroll to the end of the Start screen and discover it afterward.

Oh, and the upgrade reverts many advanced settings tweaks (like turning off Fast Startup) back to their defaults.


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