# Giant Robots Posting Only



## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

What's your opinion on giant robots (anime or otherwise)?

Which one's your favourite, and why?  Favourite pilot?

Personally, I think giant robots are fucking awesome.  Favourite is without a doubt Gurren Lagann, with the Simon/Viral combo as my favourite pilots.

Other series that I've liked were Big O and Gundam 8th MS Unit, to just name a few.


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## Rilvor (Oct 29, 2008)

Only one I ever liked was Big-O


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

It's like Batman with giant robots and mindfuck, what's not to like?


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## Wreth (Oct 29, 2008)

The mechasquirrel is the best giant robot =p


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## Hanazawa (Oct 29, 2008)

I am a fan of MECHA SHIVA MECHA SHIVA


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## TopazThunder (Oct 29, 2008)

I was a big Transformers geek back when I was younger.  I still love them, although not so much now.

The Transformers movie kinda disappointed me though, sadly. :/


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## Uro (Oct 29, 2008)

I was a huge armored core fan back when PS2 was still around. Really wish the new one wasn't for PS3 Q___________Q


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## Wreth (Oct 29, 2008)

I like the robot in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZE_zHwrALE


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## Journey (Oct 29, 2008)

speeking of batman, there's a DC you might enjoy for some reason or anouther, all of the justius leauge members get giant mechs that reflect them, and they trancform as well. I think the flash's turns into a wheele but still yea super hero giant robots.  think the comic was called meacha madness or something like that.


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

Zoopedia said:


> The mechasquirrel is the best giant robot =p





Zoopedia said:


> I like the robot in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZE_zHwrALE



I was warned that furries would ruin this thread.

Your contribution is appreciated, but even so, get that shit out of here.


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

Journey said:


> speeking of batman, there's a DC you might enjoy for some reason or anouther, all of the justius leauge members get giant mechs that reflect them, and they trancform as well. I think the flash's turns into a wheele but still yea super hero giant robots.  think the comic was called meacha madness or something like that.



That sounds retardedly awesome.


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## Wreth (Oct 29, 2008)

Don't worry. i'm a fan of most giant robots =p. It would be fun to use one to smash stuff up.


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## lilEmber (Oct 29, 2008)

Flawed, completely pointless actually. There is no real advantage at all besides 'cool' factor.

A 'bi-pedal tank' basically, why not just make a large tank. More armor and firepower.

But still, cool factor.


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

Zoopedia said:


> Don't worry. i'm a fan of most giant robots =p. It would be fun to use one to smash stuff up.



Giant robots are used primarily to roh roh fight the powah, not wanton destruction.

Unless it's the one from Blast Corps.


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## Xero108 (Oct 29, 2008)

The only giant robots I know of are in Transformers. And my favourite one is Bumble Bee. Am I a big fan of those though? Not really. I just like them, that's all.


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## Takun (Oct 29, 2008)

Gundam Alex is my favorite :3


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## Verin Asper (Oct 29, 2008)

Macross series...nuff said


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## Uro (Oct 29, 2008)

If anyone here has played xenogears...
ID-weltall was mah fav >: D


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 29, 2008)

Orgasm for Heavy Arms


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

Heavy arms was one of my waves from Wing.  That and the red one that completely fucks up your shit.


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## Wreth (Oct 29, 2008)

I don't know why but I think a human nose ruins a robot. =/


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

Yeah, it kind of does. :|


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 29, 2008)

Impressive, cool, but nothing compared to Heavy Arms. Lancelot.


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## Takun (Oct 29, 2008)

David?













This?  <3 Epyon.


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Impressive, cool, but nothing compared to Heavy Arms. Lancelot.



Looks kind of gay. :|



Takumi_L said:


> David?
> 
> This?  <3 Epyon.



YES <3


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## LizardKing (Oct 29, 2008)

ME GRIMLOCK


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 29, 2008)

Fuck yeah!  Giant robots yeah!

The Gundam series are my favorites.





RX-78-2 Gundam





MS-18 Kampfer








YMT-05 Hildolfr


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## Monak (Oct 29, 2008)

From my Sci-Fi Series: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/860968/  quick sketch I did a few years back.


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

*All giant robots are rubbish compared to TENGEN TOPPA GURREN LAGANN!*


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## Gavrill (Oct 29, 2008)

SUCK IT DECEPTICONS


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 29, 2008)

Forgot to mention my favorite pilot-




Char Aznable (pictured also is the Hyaku Shiki)


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

These are my favourite pilots.  Simon is the one on the left and Viral is on the right.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 29, 2008)

Robotech-








SDF-1


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## Dyluck (Oct 29, 2008)

The Dai-Gurren is better. 8)


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## Gavrill (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm about to post the most epic way to take a giant robot from generic anime guy. Stand back.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 29, 2008)

AMX-004 Quebeley

Another favorite.


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## Gavrill (Oct 29, 2008)

*The Most Epic Way to Steal a Giant Robot:

*Step 1:
Invite owner of robot's naive girlfriend over. Make sure you as well as the robot are devices of evil.





Step 2:
Rape girlfriend.





Step three: 
Laugh at the boyfriend when he shows up.





Step four:
He'll have a heroic speech. Don't listen.





Step five: 
Take it outside.





Step six: 
He'll summon the robot. Just wait.





Step seven:
Use your evilness to make robot evil (if it wasn't already).





Step eight:
It should look like this. If not, go back to step one and repeat.





Step nine (final step):
While he's down, a quick snuggle with the girl. Congrats! You stole a robot!


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## FourLetterWord (Oct 29, 2008)

battletech easily has the best giant robots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm76b8tzzWI

this one is fan-made so it has stupid text but its hard to argue with the giant robots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lOkCqcBfxU&feature=related

the universe also has this awesome habit where all of its history is like an action movie, its hard to explain

basically, it's never just

"relations deteriorated, so we broke the alliance"

instead, it's more like 

"well the alliance was formed because they promised to use their science to cure my son's luekemia, and it worked for a while, but then he died, so they replaced him with a clone to keep the alliance going, but then i found out so i was really pissed and now we are at war", and that's an actual example (i would have called it 'operation: goldfish' but i think they called it something else)


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## Roose Hurro (Oct 29, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> Flawed, completely pointless actually. There is no real advantage at all besides 'cool' factor.
> 
> *A 'bi-pedal tank' basically, why not just make a large tank. More armor and firepower.*
> 
> But still, cool factor.



If you are looking for the best, most elegant mecha in the universe, watch this series:

http://www.animekiwi.com/immortal-grand-prix/


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## Uro (Oct 29, 2008)

FourLetterWord said:


> battletech easily has the best giant robots
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm76b8tzzWI



Must be kidding! heheh.
Armored core 4 has the most fucking badass mechs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh1Dk9VSRyQ&feature=related


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 29, 2008)

*MEGAS XLR*​


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## Xipoid (Oct 29, 2008)

Timber Wolf (Aka: Mad Cat)
Mad Dog
Catapult
Atlas

Mechwarrior was awesome. Battletech is awesome.

Obligatory reference to Metal Gear.


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## Zseliq (Oct 29, 2008)

All robots fail when up agaisnt the MEGAZORD! *snickers*


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## Uro (Oct 29, 2008)

Xipoid said:


> Timber Wolf (Aka: Mad Cat)
> Mad Dog
> Catapult
> Atlas
> ...



Mech warrior mechs are so laaaaaaaaaame though >.>


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## Marodi (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm suprised no1 has posted zoids yet


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## Xipoid (Oct 29, 2008)

Uro said:


> Mech warrior mechs are so laaaaaaaaaame though >.>




In what way and which generation?


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## Dyluck (Oct 30, 2008)

Silibus said:


> MEGAS XLR



OH GOD WUT



GummyBear said:


> All robots fail when up agaisnt the MEGAZORD! *snickers*



All of them except Voltron. 8)



Marodi said:


> I'm suprised no1 has posted zoids yet



That's because Zoids are terrible.

The robots are neat and all, but they're always coupled with such terrible shows.


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 30, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> OH GOD WUT


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNu6_dxWbNo Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qVM63nq5g0 Dmv


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## Dyluck (Oct 30, 2008)

Silibus said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNu6_dxWbNo Intro
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qVM63nq5g0 Dmv



I remember the show. 8) It was ridiculous is all.

Edit: What the fuck why do you have more posts than me.  Get out of those posting games, kid.


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## Marodi (Oct 30, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> OH GOD WUT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't even watch the show, i just think the robots look kick ass ^^


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## FourLetterWord (Oct 30, 2008)

Uro said:


> Mech warrior mechs are so laaaaaaaaaame though >.>



big and heavy and blocky and metal and covered in guns and slow and just plausible enough to star in an action/war movie universe where everyone kicks everyone's ass all the time in a seven-way political clusterfuck over the crippled remains of a UN-type thing

its got an impossibly charming universe, what with the almost pokemon-ish way their armies cobble together battalions out of one of these and two of those and three of them and etc, mercenaries everywhere, big flashy weapons, and giant stompy metal people to carry them around

battletech is good times


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## Jarz (Oct 30, 2008)

Mazinger Z of course


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## Cody Von King (Oct 30, 2008)

It is in my belief that, as awesome as they are, giant humanoid robots are, as of right now, unethical in the expense they cause.
Though just the thought of piloting one is super fucking sexy.

_NOTE: The following is based on someone who has never really seen any anime/movies/tvshows involving giant robots._

Now, do EVA units count as giant robots even though they are part organic?
If so the EVA series, probably EVA unit 1, is/are my favorite giant robot(s).

As for pilot, Asuka, the pilot for EVA unit 2 would have to be my favorite. Why? She a chick, she has attitude, and she's intelligent, if not a bit naive.


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## pheonix (Oct 30, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> Only one I ever liked was Big-O



This sums it up for me, I love Big-O. Now I need to watch a few episodes, thanks guys.lol


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## Roose Hurro (Oct 30, 2008)

Marodi said:


> I'm suprised no1 has posted zoids yet



I thought of them, but the IGPX machines are so much better, if you've gone and watched the linked episodes I provided.  Oh... and I also forgot another favorite source for mecha:  Eureka 7... (haven't seen it in so long, I've forgotten all the names and such)


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 30, 2008)

This should have a poll. Zoids, Gundam, Big-O, Transformers, etc. And see what is most popular.


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## pheonix (Oct 30, 2008)

Silibus said:


> This should have a poll. Zoids, Gundam, Big-O, Transformers, etc. And see what is most popular.



I agree with this, I want to see which is the best.


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## Dyluck (Oct 30, 2008)

Cody Von King said:


> Now, do EVA units count as giant robots even though they are part organic?
> If so the EVA series, probably EVA unit 1, is/are my favorite giant robot(s).
> 
> As for pilot, Asuka, the pilot for EVA unit 2 would have to be my favorite. Why? She a chick, she has attitude, and she's intelligent, if not a bit naive.



I would say EVA count, on account of it being based on the same concept of giant fighting robots fucking shit up.



Silibus said:


> This should have a poll. Zoids, Gundam, Big-O, Transformers, etc. And see what is most popular.



If I had made this into a poll the only options would have been:
1) Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
2) I'm a pussy faggot with no sense of taste or style


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 30, 2008)

XD I know what I'd vote for.


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## Dyluck (Oct 30, 2008)

Silibus said:


> XD I know what I'd vote for.



Pussy faggot? :|


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 30, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> Pussy faggot? :|


>___> No...


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## Dyluck (Oct 30, 2008)

This?


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## Enigmaticat (Oct 30, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> This?


Eyegasm


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## Dyluck (Oct 30, 2008)

So fucking GAR


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 30, 2008)

RX-78 GP-03 "Dendrobium Orchis"





RX-78 GP-03 "Dendrobium Stamen"





Awesome machines from "Stardust Memory"


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## Thatch (Oct 30, 2008)

Yataman


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## WarMocK (Oct 30, 2008)

FourLetterWord said:


> big and heavy and blocky and metal and covered in guns and slow and just plausible enough to star in an action/war movie universe where everyone kicks everyone's ass all the time in a seven-way political clusterfuck over the crippled remains of a UN-type thing
> 
> its got an impossibly charming universe, what with the almost pokemon-ish way their armies cobble together battalions out of one of these and two of those and three of them and etc, mercenaries everywhere, big flashy weapons, and giant stompy metal people to carry them around
> 
> battletech is good times



100 ACK!
I simply love creating new 'mechs, and I'm looking forward to winter this year. The reason: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb5BvuCknfs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja1M0fUzxF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT8_5Q8PyGc&feature=related

*getting his neuro helmet*
Time to kick some clan ass and chew bubble gum - and I'm all outa gum ....


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## Jonnaius (Oct 30, 2008)

Transformers!

I used to have a toy optimus prime..^_^


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## Arc (Nov 7, 2008)

Arc-Gurren-Lagann.






A giant robot, piloted by a (smaller) giant robot.
That's so awesome, I have to revive this thread.
It also has my name in it...FUCK YEAH!


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 7, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> If I had made this into a poll the only options would have been:
> 1) Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
> 2) I'm a pussy faggot with no sense of taste or style



I would vote for "Pussy faggot."  >:C

Also-




AMX-002 Neue Ziel


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## Emil (Nov 7, 2008)

I prefer battletech style mechs over japanese style mecha. Theyre alot more plausible and awesome looking. They show utilitarian design and actual military purpose, where the japanese style are really just designed to look human and dont usually even have a their main weapon built into them. So much unnecessary engineering that doesnt really serve any known purpose.


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Emil said:


> I prefer battletech style mechs over japanese style mecha. Theyre alot more plausible and awesome looking. They show utilitarian design and actual military purpose, where the japanese style are really just designed to look human and dont usually even have a their main weapon built into them. So much unnecessary engineering that doesnt really serve any known purpose.



Um...

Lack of built in weapon = more flexibility in armaments

More humanoid shape = more natural-feeling controls

Rather than try to be walking super-MBTs (like BattleTech) they take a more "enhancing the soldier himself" approach (kinda like the Elementals/Battle Suits from BattleTech).  The result is a more flexible and nimble machine.


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## Dyluck (Nov 7, 2008)

Arc said:


> Arc-Gurren-Lagann.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, you. <3


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Guess who:


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## Dyluck (Nov 7, 2008)

METAL GEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> METAL GEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR



you know Metal Gear RAY is sexy


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> METAL GEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR



I think REX looked cooler than that.


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> I think REX looked cooler than that.



have you seen RAY in action? omg, the fact that he's flexible as all fuck gives me the chills


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## Enigmaticat (Nov 7, 2008)

Raiden, the anit-metal gear.


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Raiden, the anit-metal gear.



the outfit ruined his extreme sexyness, but oh well. oh, and the fact that practically the only thing real about him is his head xD


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## Enigmaticat (Nov 7, 2008)

But no one is as good as Grey Fox.


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Silibus said:


> But no one is as good as Grey Fox.



Frank Jaeger FTW!


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## Emil (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> Um...
> Lack of built in weapon = more flexibility in armaments



Also less efficiency in mass production. Instead of having a factory to build a gaint mech, now you have to have many giant factories to build the giant mech and its many giant weapons, which would be quite slower than just building a semi-giant mech with many smaller interchangeable weapons. Also adds the possibility of your mecha being disarmed by another, leaving you defensless. Also, just because the weapon is actually made a part of the chassis doesnt mean it cant be switched out for another while not in combat. And since its actually a part of the machine, it cant be disarmed without actually being destroyed. 



> More humanoid shape = more natural-feeling controls



Since most mecha in anime use joystick and button panels to move the arms and legs in seemingly completely flexible way (which youd have to have a shit load of buttons and joysticks to do), while battletech mechs actually use neural implants for many of the controls, I dont see how thats true. 




> Rather than try to be walking super-MBTs (like BattleTech) they take a more "enhancing the soldier himself" approach (kinda like the Elementals/Battle Suits from BattleTech).  The result is a more flexible and nimble machine.



I have seen very few mecha that actually use this concept. Theyre certainly the minority of the genre.  The only one Ive ever seen has been G-Gundam, the rest were just piloted with joysticks and panels, which doesnt enhance the soldier at all.


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## Korro-Sama (Nov 7, 2008)

My favorite pilot and giant robot was the pilot in the Cancer series armor-suit that got cut in half in Gundam Wing by one of the Gundam Pilots. It sucked to watch him actually outdo the Gundam and still die a horrible death. He was a real soldier... kick-ass to the end *removes hat*


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Emil said:


> Also less efficiency in mass production. Instead of having a factory to build a gaint mech, now you have to have many giant factories to build the giant mech and its many giant weapons, which would be quite slower than just building a semi-giant mech with many smaller interchangeable weapons. Also adds the possibility of your mecha being disarmed by another, leaving you defensless. Also, just because the weapon is actually made a part of the chassis doesnt mean it cant be switched out for another while not in combat. And since its actually a part of the machine, it cant be disarmed without actually being destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




...well, shit.

Also: neurohelmets were Clan tech IIRC.

-_- I stand by the armament flexibility, it's not that easy to change the loadout of a 'mech in the field.  Reloading and repairing via Mobile Field Bases, yes, but a substantial change to a mech's loadout - no.

EDIT: OmniMechs (particularly Clan ones) are much more flexible as far as loadout is concerned, how that would affect weapon swapping on the field, I dunno.  I thought I remembered there being an even more flexible and versatile kind of mech being fielded by the Clans, Protomechs I think they're called.  Any experience with tabletop rulesets I ever had has been drowned in a sea of MechWarrior computer-gaming.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 7, 2008)

NekoFox08 said:


> Guess who:



Sweet!



Tycho The Itinerant said:


> I think REX looked cooler than that.



Agreed.  8)  Also he deserves another pic-


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  8)  Also he deserves another pic-



I don't agree with that! >=2

but yea, he is cool, but RAY is flexible! cmon' people!


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## Emil (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> -_- I stand by the armament flexibility, it's not that easy to change the loadout of a 'mech in the field.  Reloading and repairing via Mobile Field Bases, yes, but a substantial change to a mech's loadout - no.



Yeah, but then you gotta consider transportation and storage for those different giant armaments =P Cause now you gotta build a buncha big ass trucks to carry around all the huge ass beam cannons, and they probably cant be exposed to the elements for too too long before they stop functioning at top efficiency. Sure, changing weapons is as quick as picking up a new one, but what are the chances that a mecha is close enough to the depot to pick one up on the fly when it finds its weapons ineffective? You very rarely see them carry multiple weapons on them. 

Oh wow, Im treating this like its serious shit, lol.


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Emil said:


> Oh wow, Im treating this like its serious shit, lol.



GIANT ROBOTS IS SRS BSNS.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 7, 2008)

NekoFox08 said:


> I don't agree with that! >=2
> 
> but yea, he is cool, but RAY is flexible! cmon' people!





Spoiler



Rex beat Ray.


  8)



Tycho The Itinerant said:


> GIANT ROBOTS IS SRS BSNS.



Fuck yeah it is.

Also-





*Tallgeese* from Gundam Wing.


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## Emil (Nov 7, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> *Tallgeese* from Gundam Wing.



I will admit, that is one damn sexy walking death machine. Always was my favorite mecha.


> GIANT ROBOTS IS SRS BSNS.



I NO RITE? Hey, is all in good fun =P


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Emil said:


> I will admit, that is one damn sexy walking death machine. Always was my favorite mecha.



geez... just when I thought I had totally different standards for humans.. I guess I have totally different standards for robots as well 

that sucks!


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## Enigmaticat (Nov 7, 2008)

Lets see how your giant robots do against:


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## Enigmaticat (Nov 7, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Lets see how your giant robots do against:







(Damn I hate this laptop....)


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## NekoFox08 (Nov 7, 2008)

Silibus said:


>



ugh... why?


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Silibus said:


> (Damn I hate this laptop....)



I liked the first pic you posted better.

Astro Boy creeps me out.


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## Enigmaticat (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> I liked the first pic you posted better.
> 
> Astro Boy creeps me out.


That was a mistake, this stupid laptop sucks at posting images.


NekoFox08 said:


> ugh... why?


I really dont know. I never really liked Astroboy much... I liked the style of the art because of Cyborg 009 and Kikiader.


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## WarMocK (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> ...well, shit.
> 
> Also: neurohelmets were Clan tech IIRC.
> 
> ...



Neurohelmets, among with the invention of the fusion reactor, were the technical breakthroughs that made the Battlemech possible in the first place. When the first Mackie walked off the assembly line, its pilot, Charles Kinkaid, already wore the first generation of neurohelmets to keep the mech on its two feet. ;-)
As for the ProtoMechs: They were the last effort of Clan Smoke Jaguar to stop the invasion from the second Star League, but they are pretty useless against a normal mech in the open field since they can hardly take the hit of a medium laser and carry a very light armament. That's why they failed to prevent the Jackies from being crushed by the IS pilots on their way to Strana Mentshy.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 7, 2008)

Silibus said:


> (Damn I hate this laptop....)



Fuck yeah!  Ass cannons!  :3





AT-AT Imperial Walker(s)


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## Enigmaticat (Nov 7, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> AT-AT Imperial Walker(s)


Trip.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 7, 2008)

For the Transformers Fans-





StarScream


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## Gavrill (Nov 7, 2008)

I'm sad no one commented on my "best way to steal a robot".


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 7, 2008)

Optimus Prime 8)


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## Kalianos (Nov 7, 2008)

The Big O, Gundam Deathscythe Hell custom, and Gundam Heavy arms Custom.


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## Tweek (Nov 7, 2008)

Anything from MechWarrior. There are cooler ones than this, but the Timber Wolf is what most people remember.


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Tweek said:


> Anything from MechWarrior. There are cooler ones than this, but the Timber Wolf is what most people remember.



It's THAT FUCKING CLANNER 'MECH.

If I see that fucking Madcat one more time


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## Tweek (Nov 8, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> It's THAT FUCKING CLANNER 'MECH.
> 
> If I see that fucking Madcat one more time



HAH. I hate it too, but a lot of people wouldn't know where the hell an Orion came from so it had to do...


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