# Super Smash Brothers: Brawl (Ideas to improve it.)



## WhiteLion0089 (Jul 20, 2008)

There have been speculations about Super Smash Brothers: Brawl being a big disappointment. And I would have to agree with some of them about it not living itself up to it's vast glory. By throwing out the fact that it was delayed three times due to it not being totally complete, but somehow it dosen't feel like it's two predessors. I have some ideas about a new one if they ever plan to create one in the future. I would like to hear some ideas from you all as well.Ideas:-Character Customization: (That is a big deal and I would love to make myself or any of my characters in Smash Brothers. I figure they could make a great character customization also the ability to edit their moves. The move set could have their fighting stance, the 'B' attacks, taunts, and also the new smash attack from the original made characters and also they could put moves by default (I.E.: Sword slashing, Fireball, yada...))-Leave the original characters alone: (I was a Mario fan myself for the first two Smash Brothers. However I didn't appreciate the way they changed him as they did by replacing the Down-B attack for the water squirter, which dosen't do any damage whatsoever. Also I found that Ganondorf was supposed to be different from Captain Falcon, but they weakened him when they did. I say keep them as they were in Melee and edit the new fighters)    -More Nintendo Fighters (I know they had about 30 fighters in this installment, however I think they should put more characters in there, somewhat like the computer game 'Mugen' and have every Nintendo character available to play as. I know it takes up room, so that's why they should wait and update the Nintendo software.)-Put in the 64 bit characters (It may sound strange, but I actually wanted this in the Melee installment of it. I thought it would be cool to have the old 64-bit characters as playables. If they put in the old 64-bit stages, might as well put in the originals.)-Better or more 3rd Party Characters (Sure, the idea of Snake and Sonic were cool to begin with, however I failed to see the 'coolness' pay off. They didn't put much effort in their move sets while they designed them. I am one of the biggest fans of Metal Gear Solid there is and I was thouroughly enthused at Snake being apart of the Brawl roster. However when I played as him, the controller dropped out of my paws in shock. It was not a revalation about it. However, with that said, I would like to see better installments from the roster. It would be cool to add in some Naruto characters, Death Note, Star Wars, and some more Metal Gear Solid characters. I know it would cost a fortune, but it would be a great seller, I assure you.)-More of the music (I love soundtracks in movies and video games. This was one good thing about Brawl was it's vast soundtrack. I loved that part of the game, however I'm picky and wish for more.)Now that I have said my piece, let me hear you ideas to improve the next one.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh look, moar Brawl complaints. I'd improve Subspace and the online, but there's only so much you can ask for. Be satisfied that you can even play the damn thing. How was playing as Snake supposed to be a revelation? Is it not enough that he's one of the best in the game? Though I will admit, custom characters would be cool, but how limited would it be?


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## chamo (Jul 20, 2008)

My only complaints would be tripping and the online play.


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## GatodeCafe (Jul 20, 2008)

I think it would be funny if you could use your miis in SSB, but I don't reckon customizable characters would be really fair at all. Apart from that, I thought the cast was pretty well-rounded, and frankly I'm so happy with the game, improving it didn't even cross my mind.


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## Glennjam (Jul 20, 2008)

Wall of text :shock:
I think Phoenix Wright should be an assist trophy =3 It'd be made of win


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## WhiteLion0089 (Jul 20, 2008)

*I wasn't really complaining that much, I was just expecting it to do a bit better than it was. It seemed like it was rushed, but it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, it was a good game and I had my good hours playing it.  *


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## AlexX (Jul 21, 2008)

Hoo boy...


WhiteLion0089 said:


> There have been speculations about Super Smash Brothers: Brawl being a big disappointment.


And these people tend to be disappointed by everything.



> By throwing out the fact that it was delayed three times due to it not being totally complete, but somehow it dosen't feel like it's two predessors.


Melee felt nothing like the N64 game, either. Sakurai has stated on several occasions that more characters and stages was not enough to make a better game, which is why unlike Street Fighter and etc., we're not getting rehashed versions of the game each year with just a few minor tweaks.



> Ideas:-Character Customization: (That is a big deal and I would love to make myself or any of my characters in Smash Brothers. I figure they could make a great character customization also the ability to edit their moves. The move set could have their fighting stance, the 'B' attacks, taunts, and also the new smash attack from the original made characters and also they could put moves by default (I.E.: Sword slashing, Fireball, yada...))


Ha... no. Stage creator I can understand, but a character creator is too much. Having famous video game characters together is part of Brawl's selling points, and having the ability to make your own kills that.

If you prefer a better reason, there's the fact that it gives you an unfair advantage to use a custom character... For example, let's say you make a character that looks like Batman. Let's say you outfit him with Yoshi's grab, Kirby's suck, Link's sword, and Wolf's claw attacks. Anyone who uses a default Nintendo character is at a severe disadvantage because their moves are set in stone while the custom character's are completely unknown and can make no sense. This is made worse by the fact having 4 on Wifi would probably cause problems.



> -Leave the original characters alone: (I was a Mario fan myself for the first two Smash Brothers. However I didn't appreciate the way they changed him as they did by replacing the Down-B attack for the water squirter, which dosen't do any damage whatsoever.


Since when did damage win you fights in Smash? Last I checked, it was KO-ing your opponent, and what better way to do that then push them too far away for them to get back to the stage with? You could use another attack instead, but the problem is that if it damages them, they get their recovery move back... It adds strategy and uniqueness to Mario's game, which is nice since he's never been anything beyond "meh" in the previous installments.



> Also I found that Ganondorf was supposed to be different from Captain Falcon, but they weakened him when they did. I say keep them as they were in Melee and edit the new fighters)


Ganondorf hits far harder than the Captain does, not to mention their battle tactics are completely different. Also, keep them the same as Melee? As in, keep them as clones? No, I like my new Falco and Ganondorf (and depending on your PoV, young/toon Link as well), thank you very much.



> -More Nintendo Fighters (I know they had about 30 fighters in this installment, however I think they should put more characters in there, somewhat like the computer game 'Mugen' and have every Nintendo character available to play as. I know it takes up room, so that's why they should wait and update the Nintendo software.)


Be like Mugen? No, no fighting game should ever be like Mugen, as "Mugen" and "balance" are two words that will never be put in the same sentance unless "has no" is in-between them. They had some major problems balancing the 25 in Melee and the 35 they have in Brawl now, I don't know how they could possibly put in so many and keep it at least relatively balanced. Also, where do you draw the line when it comes to "every Nintendo character"? are you including 3rd party game characters in that?

And while we're at it, DLC is impossible. The Wii doesn't have the proper hard drive for such major patching like the 360 and PS3 do.



> -Put in the 64 bit characters (It may sound strange, but I actually wanted this in the Melee installment of it. I thought it would be cool to have the old 64-bit characters as playables. If they put in the old 64-bit stages, might as well put in the originals.)


I'm fairly certain all the characters use their designs from their most recent series installment, which makes sense and explains why their looks are updated each game (exception being Marth... somehow he looks a lot more feminine in Smash than he ever has in his games).



> -Better or more 3rd Party Characters (Sure, the idea of Snake and Sonic were cool to begin with, however I failed to see the 'coolness' pay off. They didn't put much effort in their move sets while they designed them.


Not much effort? What bizarro-world version of Brawl are you playing? Snake is one of the most unique characters in the game and Sonic plays a lot more his Genesis/Megadrive version than his newer version, which is precisely what the fanboys wanted.



> I am one of the biggest fans of Metal Gear Solid there is and I was thouroughly enthused at Snake being apart of the Brawl roster. However when I played as him, the controller dropped out of my paws in shock. It was not a revalation about it.


Despite how much we all know the MGS fans wanted them, AK-47's and throat-slitting with knives isn't really Smash-like, as Sakurai himself has said in the past. However, explosives are and Snake uses a good amount of them in his games, so it all works out. Note that this ignores the fact that Snake is most likely the new Fox since he competes with G&W, Meta-Knight, and Dedede (and possibly Olimar, depending on how crippling his recovery is) for the #1 spot on Brawl's tier list.



> However, with that said, I would like to see better installments from the roster. It would be cool to add in some Naruto characters, Death Note, Star Wars, and some more Metal Gear Solid characters.


There aren't too many MGS games on Nintendo systems, so most would prefer that legitimate Nintendo franchises get more representation before them. Anime characters? Sakurai stated that only characters who are originally from a video game and had at least one installment on a Nintendo system would make it, so they're out of the question as well.



> I know it would cost a fortune, but it would be a great seller, I assure you.)


This is Smash we're talking about, they could release rehashes each year with just a few minor tweaks and it would STILL sell like hot cakes... ._.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 21, 2008)

Oh, I guess this kinda counts as a fangirlish complaint: lack of Mother/Earthbound representations. There are five series tracks while Fire Emblem has to have a bajillion, and none of them are from Mother 2. They spoil Mother 3 and Porky by devoting a whole stage to them but there's no mention whatsoever of Giygas.


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## Dyluck (Jul 21, 2008)

/thread. Well done, AlexX.


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## Dyluck (Jul 21, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> Oh, I guess this kinda counts as a fangirlish complaint: lack of Mother/Earthbound representations. There are five series tracks while Fire Emblem has to have a bajillion, and none of them are from Mother 2. They spoil Mother 3 and Porky by devoting a whole stage to them but there's no mention whatsoever of Giygas.



That's because Giygas scares the shit out of people.


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## Kirbizard (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm sorry, but that first post... Geez, wall of text is painful. <( ;_; )>


In all, I agree with what AlexX has said on the issue. He's summed it up perfectly.
*hugs AlexX* (>n_n)>


Custom characters and Miis just wouldn't fit into the game either way, it's supposed to be about Nintendo characters.
Can you honestly, I mean HONESTLY, see Batman fighting Mario in a Smash Bros game? MUGEN, maybe. But Smash Bros?
Miis are suitable for sports sims and as a general representation of yourself, but when it comes down to it, YOU'RE not a Nintendo character. Why should your Mii fight?


And don't start trying to suggest multiple anime characters, it makes my head hurt why you'd suggest them in the first place other than "it'd be cool". <(._.)>


Oh, and in my opinion, Mr. Game & Watch is better than any 64-bit characters anyway. =p


I'll admit I wasn't too pleased about some parts of the game initially, I really wasn't too pleased to hear that ROB had gotten in over Ridley for the roster.
But it seems to make more sense after finally getting the PAL version of the game and playing the Subspace Mode myself, which, while lacking, did give ROB a damn good excuse to be playable. <(n_n)>


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## Kyoujin (Jul 21, 2008)

They need downloadable characters. Unless they have them, but last I heard there wasn't..

I mean seriously, they cut mewtwo.. that was dumb. ;[ Lol.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 21, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> That's because Giygas scares the shit out of people.



Exactly! Best Assist Trophy ever. Throw in the shape of a fetus for the speculators and it'd be gold.

I'll add some more claps for Alex. My eyes could only skim over the bold face rape that is the OP. The thing that really got me here was 64-bit characters. Have you played the original lately? It's a great boost of nostalgia, but really, the sequels are massive--and I mean MASSIVE--improvements. What would be the point? Would you get a kick out of Brawl Fox running circles around 64 Fox? I don't get it.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 21, 2008)

Kyoujin said:


> I mean seriously, they cut mewtwo.. that was dumb. ;[ Lol.



That's because Mewtwo stank in Melee due to having Brawl-like physics, which is a bit ironic that they sort of replaced him with Lucario. Weird considering the Pokemon Trainer throwback.


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## Stratelier (Jul 21, 2008)

IMO, the only SSBB complaint that, when everything else is said and done, sticks with me me is the *absolute lack of pointer support*.  Seriously, using analog stick to move a freakin' _cursor_ across the screen of a Wii title = *WTF?!*

Not to mention Stage Builder would have been like 100x faster with pointer interaction.

Seriously, Nintendo.  Make pointer-compatible menus a requirement for all Wii software development or something.


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## Magica (Jul 21, 2008)

Definately an improvement in the Wifi system as far as the horrid lag goes.  I've also wanted the ability to trade stickers and trophies, because who wants over 6 of the same thing when you could only put 4 onto a picture anyway? >>


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## Range (Jul 21, 2008)

First post: TL;DR



Glennjam said:


> Wall of text :shock:
> I think Phoenix Wright should be an assist trophy =3 It'd be made of win


Yes! Phoenix: *slams on a desk and makes everyone but the user trip, or fall to the ground, then yells Objection making them get hurt/dizzy* or something like that.



TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> I'd improve Subspace and the online, but there's only so much you can ask for. Be satisfied that you can even play the damn thing. How was playing as Snake supposed to be a revelation? Is it not enough that he's one of the best in the game? Though I will admit, custom characters would be cool, but how limited would it be?


Here's an idea on how they could make the custom characters work, going through subspace gets you points, which can be used for moves towards your character, harder difficulties give you more points. But you can only get... oh let's say a really good ability is 10 points. You can max out at like, 100 or something, including the points to be used for stats (speed, power, jumping, weight) That way it'd be a limited ammount of points.

As for online play, no moar lag nao plox.

Oh, and to improve stage builder, being able to rotate the pieces would be nice. A while ago me and my friend had an idea for a death trap stage, filled with spikes and stuff, but when we found out we couldn't rotate the spikes so that they'd be pointing to the bottom/sides, our plan was kinda ruined... Instead we made a moon bounce stage!

Moon Bounce stage is what we call the stage that we made, which is a small stage with blocks all along the side and bottom, then spikes on top, making you spawn inside the boxes. No way out, the damage meters max out, and everyone is bouncing everywhere. Actually you can get out if you get a FS that makes you jump off screen, but it's best to not do that, cause then you're stuck on top bouncing around on the spikes... It's awesome during sudden death though! =D


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## Wait Wait (Jul 21, 2008)

chamo said:


> My only complaints would be tripping and the online play.



thread done.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 21, 2008)

Not done. I need that Moon Bounce stage.


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## Range (Jul 21, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> Not done. I need that Moon Bounce stage.



Brawl code and Wii code and I'll send it to you when I get back to my mom's on wednesday =3


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 21, 2008)

Okay dokay, here's my Brawl and Wii code. THEN the thread is closed. (Sorry, OP.)







Wiid: 6775-8170-9163-6759


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## Linko_16 (Jul 21, 2008)

WhiteLion0089 said:


> *It would be cool to add in some Naruto characters, Death Note, Star Wars*



*Whatever credibility you may have had just died.*


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## Magikian (Jul 21, 2008)

WhiteLion0089 said:


> *It would be cool to add in some Naruto characters, Death Note, Star Wars, and some more Metal Gear Solid characters.*



Naruto is the biggest fail of an anime, Death Note wouldn't have anyone good. If I was to pick an anime to have characters from, it would be Bleach... but they would be imbalanced...

As for more Metal Gear Solid characters, that wouldn't be that bad of an idea. I would've loved to play as say, Psycho Mantis or Vulcan Raven.

And as for Star Wars, let's hope it dies at Force Unleashed. One series should only go on for so long. *Gets ready for flame*


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 21, 2008)

- Edit some stages (for instance, in WarioWare stage, make it so that *everybody gets the same bonus*).
- Remove tripping.

And before people put ass posts.
- *Snake does NOT represent Konami.* He is simply included because Kojima, *not Konami*, requested his character to be included in Brawl.
- *Sonic was included because of popularity and requests.*
- *The game will always be NINTENDO ALL-STARS DAIRANTOU SMASH BROTHERS*, not *LOL VIDEO GAMING ALL-STARS DAIRANTOU SMASH BROTHERS*.
- Kojima himself stated that *he would not allow MANGA/ANIME characters*.
- Inclusion of characters is *based on popularity and staying power in JAPAN*. For instance, Leon and Slippy have actually more chance than Krystal. *Roy was only included in Melee for promotional purposes*, and when they found out that *he wasn't popular*, they replaced him with Ike, *who is quite popular and has already stayed in two games*.


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## AlexX (Jul 22, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> Oh, I guess this kinda counts as a fangirlish complaint: lack of Mother/Earthbound representations. There are five series tracks while Fire Emblem has to have a bajillion, and none of them are from Mother 2. They spoil Mother 3 and Porky by devoting a whole stage to them but there's no mention whatsoever of Giygas.


Lack of Mother representation? The series has 3 installments and gets two playable characters, 2 stages, and an SSE stage based off Mother 1. Fire Emblem has 10 installments (an 11th in the making, which is only 3 or 4 less than the Zelda franchise), yet it only has two characters, one stage, and one SSE area not based off any specific game.

Which one is under-represented?

And while we're at it, I'm pretty sure Giygas isn't in there because Mother 3 is the most recent installment for the series, much like how the Zelda characters all have their Twilight Princess look due to that being the most recent installment (Toon Link being an obvious exception).



WolfoxOkamichan said:


> For instance, Leon and Slippy have actually more chance than Krystal.


Nobody likes Slippy and Leon is a P.O.S. in Command (no, really... he has no lasers, he can't roll or dash for crap, and although his charge shot needs no aiming, it's piss-weak). I don't particularly care for Krystal myself, but at least she has the role of "main character's girlfriend", which makes her a fairly notable character (not to mention there's a lack of playable females in the game... the only one they "added" was Zero Suit Samus).

Also, if population in Japan was all that mattered, Mia from Ike's games would have gotten in instead of him because she is more popular than he is there (even though as far as the plot is concerned, she's a nobody).


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Holy crap, about the SSE stage--I'm running through Mother 1 now and I just realized where the zoo was from. Doing. Perhaps they could've snuck in a snippet of Pokey Means Business from Earthbound instead of having what are essentially two variations Porky's Theme. Ah well, good point about Fire Emblem though. Fangirl anger dismissed.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 22, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Nobody likes Slippy and Leon is a P.O.S. in Command (no, really... he has no lasers, he can't roll or dash for crap, and although his charge shot needs no aiming, it's piss-weak). I don't particularly care for Krystal myself, but at least she has the role of "main character's girlfriend", which makes her a fairly notable character (not to mention there's a lack of playable females in the game... the only one they "added" was Zero Suit Samus).
> 
> Also, if population in Japan was all that mattered, Mia from Ike's games would have gotten in instead of him because she is more popular than he is there (even though as far as the plot is concerned, she's a nobody).



First paragraph:
Sure they are crap - but remember Pikachu? Pikachu was very popular despite being a generic in Viridian City. Also, they only bothered "characterizing" the trainer in RS.

Second paragraph:
She's not a Lord that appeared in two games. And no, she's really not that popular. Top three popular Lords are Marth, some male Lord from an obscure FE game, and Ike.


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## Huey (Jul 22, 2008)

They should just give me all the characters so I don't have to play SSE =)

Also, Nintendo's online interface ranks among the worst I've seen for any popular online game.


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## Stratelier (Jul 22, 2008)

> They should just give me all the characters so I don't have to play SSE =)


There's three ways to unlock every character, one of which is to encounter them in SSE, the second of which is to keep brawling . . . and brawling . . . a new one shows up to challenge you about once every 50 hours or so . . . .

So unless you want to "cheat" -- say, plug 4 GCN controllers in and start a four-man survival match (1 stock, no items) on Final Destination and leave your game sitting there for a solid week (aka 672 hours combimed play time) -- suck it up and either grab some friends to pass the time, or go complete SSE.


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## Wolfric Blackthorne (Jul 22, 2008)

I'd have to say that my only real complaint would have to be my disappointment with Wolf.  He's too much like Fox and Falco.  I mean, his final smash is a friggin' Landmaster Tank!  That's SO wrong!


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

The resemblance ends with the Landmaster IMO. Wolf--being stronger, slower, and badassier--plays very differently from Fox, who plays differently from Falco, who is no longer a clone, which makes people happy.


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## Linko_16 (Jul 22, 2008)

*Oh, fuck, the Landmasters. That shit is unforgivable. As if at least giving Falco an Arwing isn't obvious enough.*


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, it's not like he prefers the air, more like D'Air! Cause it spikes!


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## M&Mike (Jul 22, 2008)

i haven't looked to see if anyone has allready mentioned this but i really looked forward to the online side of this game, but its really not that much fun with a mic or anything, i would probably add that


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, seeing as Nintendo fears for the safety of the children, WiiSpeak has yet to arrive, and online matches last two minutes, I think we're better off without it. But what about Friend Code matches? Honestly, just invite your friends over--if you've got some, that is. (And that was aimed at no one in particular but onlinetards.)


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## Range (Jul 22, 2008)

M&Mike said:


> i haven't looked to see if anyone has allready mentioned this but i really looked forward to the online side of this game, but its really not that much fun with a mic or anything, i would probably add that



Do you really want to hear people yelling and complaining about how are being cheap or bitching about lag?


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## Pacific Island (Jul 22, 2008)

Coming from a Melee Tourney goer, I was dissapointed when the game came out. 

Lack of hitstun made it unfun.
Because of this, there are almost no combos. 
Because of no combos, the game was not as exciting.

I hope they make the next game have more hitstun like in melee.


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## Range (Jul 22, 2008)

Pacific Island said:


> Coming from a Melee Tourney goer, I was dissapointed when the game came out.
> 
> Lack of hitstun made it unfun.
> Because of this, there are almost no combos.
> ...



Look at it from the other person's perspective though. Is a game really fun when their getting their ass kicked because of hitstun? =\


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Combos do exist in Brawl and I've got proof. It's not unheard of to pull a "Ken F'air" with Lucas. Just did it twice last month.


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## AlexX (Jul 22, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> First paragraph:
> Sure they are crap - but remember Pikachu? Pikachu was very popular despite being a generic in Viridian City. Also, they only bothered "characterizing" the trainer in RS.


Pikachu is popular because of the anime, hence why he is the posterboy of the series. The trainer was a unique way to put 3 characters in one and is the trainer design that most people think about when they think of the series.



> Second paragraph:
> She's not a Lord that appeared in two games. And no, she's really not that popular. Top three popular Lords are Marth, some male Lord from an obscure FE game, and Ike.


If you don't think she's that popular, then clearly you haven't looked at the popularity charts from Japan. She's far more popular than Ike has ever been.

While we're at it, shall I assume that "male lord from an obscure FE game" you're referring to is Sigurd? If so, he is from the 4th game in the series (Genealogy of the Holy War), which is basically the FF7 of the FE franchise, so there's a good reason as to why he's so popular.



> Oh, fuck, the Landmasters. That shit is unforgivable. As if at least giving Falco an Arwing isn't obvious enough.


If they had given Falco or Wolf another final smash that turned out to be similar to someone else's, people would have complained that they could have at least been honest and make it the same rather than try to pass off a reskinned one as a new one.

That said, the landmasters are still different. For example, Falco's is easier to kill yourself with.



> Coming from a Melee Tourney goer, I was dissapointed when the game came out.
> 
> Lack of hitstun made it unfun.
> Because of this, there are almost no combos.
> ...


What are you talking about? Characters like Metaknight and Lucario still have combo abilities, and while they can't go from 0% to KO like a couple of ones Marth had in Melee could, it's still something.

I also fail to see how it becomes less fun and exciting just because there's less combo potential... Anime has fights getting drawn out as long as possible, and people still find it fun and exciting.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Apollo Justice Alex to the rescue. Do you have a Friend Code?


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## Temarinyo (Jul 22, 2008)

it wasn't really AS fun in the sense that we all knew who was going to be in the game, like there weren't any suprises. >:


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Avoiding the Dojo was hard shit. Don't even get me started on the poor souls in Europe.


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## AlexX (Jul 22, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> Apollo Justice Alex to the rescue. Do you have a Friend Code?


Of course~! I can get it to you either next time I have access to my Wii or when FA comes back up (whichever comes first).



Temarinyo said:


> it wasn't really AS fun in the sense that we all knew who was going to be in the game, like there weren't any suprises. >:


To be fair, Melee wasn't any different... Sakurai did the same thing as he did with the Dojo this time around (i.e. giving daily updates regarding what's in the game until release).


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

He did? I guess you kinda wait without surprises when you're nine.


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## Huey (Jul 22, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> There's three ways to unlock every character, one of which is to encounter them in SSE, the second of which is to keep brawling . . . and brawling . . . a new one shows up to challenge you about once every 50 hours or so . . . .
> 
> So unless you want to "cheat" -- say, plug 4 GCN controllers in and start a four-man survival match (1 stock, no items) on Final Destination and leave your game sitting there for a solid week (aka 672 hours combimed play time) -- suck it up and either grab some friends to pass the time, or go complete SSE.



That's only two ways =(


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 22, 2008)

Third way: SD cards and GameFAQs.


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## AlexX (Jul 22, 2008)

Oops! Forgot this message...



Stratadrake said:


> There's three ways to unlock every character, one of which is to encounter them in SSE, the second of which is to keep brawling . . . and brawling . . . a new one shows up to challenge you about once every 50 hours or so . . . .
> 
> So unless you want to "cheat" -- say, plug 4 GCN controllers in and start a four-man survival match (1 stock, no items) on Final Destination and leave your game sitting there for a solid week (aka 672 hours combimed play time) -- suck it up and either grab some friends to pass the time, or go complete SSE.


Correction: use 4 controllers and do nonstop Special Brawl matches set to Flower Stamina with HP set to 1. Each match should last a fraction of a second, and if done right (using the right characters, etc.) you can unlock all stages and all characters within 2 and a half hours.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 22, 2008)

...why are you guys using 4 characters? You can do it even with 2 characters with the other being controlled by the CPU. Set it to Flower mode, Stamina, 1HP (except your character), and FAST Brawl.

Heck, you can even pick certain characters to unlock nearly all stages, some music, and some demos while you're unlocking the characters. It'd take only around 2 hours to unlock everyone, and you'd save yourself from the crap that is SSE.

And another thing - good Lord, now I remembered why I hate the Smash community. YOU PEOPLE STILL THINK WOLF IS A CLONE? DAMN. Play some other games for crying out loud.



AlexX said:


> Pikachu is popular because of the anime, hence why he is the posterboy of the series. The trainer was a unique way to put 3 characters in one and is the trainer design that most people think about when they think of the series.
> 
> If you don't think she's that popular, then clearly you haven't looked at the popularity charts from Japan. She's far more popular than Ike has ever been.
> 
> While we're at it, shall I assume that "male lord from an obscure FE game" you're referring to is Sigurd? If so, he is from the 4th game in the series (Genealogy of the Holy War), which is basically the FF7 of the FE franchise, so there's a good reason as to why he's so popular.



Hahaha no. Pikachu has become popular in the RG (not RB since Japan only matters) because of his appeal, HENCE he acquired his anime. It's the same reason why Lucario became popular - he was one of the few characters who was announced earlier before DP was released, and Nintendo pushed it more by giving him a movie. If Pikachu wasn't popular we might've gotten Charmander or Jigglypuff as Satoshi's partner.

Apparently the dominant Lords are all males so I can't really say for sure. And no - I thought it was Sigurd but apparently it was not. Those FE games apparently even sold less than Star Fox Command, which is the least selling Star Fox game.


----------



## Linko_16 (Jul 22, 2008)

AlexX said:


> If they had given Falco or Wolf another final smash that turned out to be similar to someone else's, people would have complained that they could have at least been honest and make it the same rather than try to pass off a reskinned one as a new one.
> 
> That said, the landmasters are still different. For example, Falco's is easier to kill yourself with.



*Oh please, it's just laziness. Exactly what a Final Smash is supposed to do almost doesn't matter at all, seeing as they all pretty much result in the same thing: cheap, instant KO's. Sure, some characters have nigh unavoidable deathblows while others are forced to carefully execute theirs to ensure damage takes place at all, but the details of an attack that are usually small enough for the exact amount to matter - how it's controlled, the percentage dealt, the amount of knockback - are blown so far out of proportion that who really cares what the hell's going on? If you're serious about the game to the point where that even bothers you, you'd be playing with them turned off.

The only fun in any of it, really, is how it works thematically. An Arwing, for instance, could be a first-person view of the field from the cockpit while you rapid-fire lasers, not unlike those Fox and Falco fire from their blasters, at vulnerable opponents. Similar to Snake's? Sure. But at least if you're facing three opponents, all with Starfox characters due to their high popularity in the Smash series, you're not forced to sit through the same boring crap each time.

The Arwing isn't the only blatently obvious Final Smash that could've been had, either. Toon Link should've had the Hurricane Spin, his upgraded Spin Attack from Wind Waker. That was the shit. Donkey Kong's (I know his wasn't a repeat, but just for the record...) Should've been to ride on Rhambi, seeing as his recent rhythm games are hardly what his franchise is known for. As for Ness and Lucas, well, PK StarStorm wasn't the only super-powerful attack in the Mother series.*


----------



## Huey (Jul 22, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Oops! Forgot this message...
> 
> Correction: use 4 controllers and do nonstop Special Brawl matches set to Flower Stamina with HP set to 1. Each match should last a fraction of a second, and if done right (using the right characters, etc.) you can unlock all stages and all characters within 2 and a half hours.


----------



## AlexX (Jul 22, 2008)

Linko_16 said:


> Oh please, it's just laziness. Exactly what a Final Smash is supposed to do almost doesn't matter at all, seeing as they all pretty much result in the same thing: cheap, instant KO's.


Peach would like a word with you. Olimar, too.



> Sure, some characters have nigh unavoidable deathblows while others are forced to carefully execute theirs to ensure damage takes place at all, but the details of an attack that are usually small enough for the exact amount to matter - how it's controlled, the percentage dealt, the amount of knockback - are blown so far out of proportion that who really cares what the hell's going on? If you're serious about the game to the point where that even bothers you, you'd be playing with them turned off.


Then why does having 3 different landmasters bother you so much?



> The only fun in any of it, really, is how it works thematically. An Arwing, for instance, could be a first-person view of the field from the cockpit while you rapid-fire lasers, not unlike those Fox and Falco fire from their blasters, at vulnerable opponents. Similar to Snake's? Sure. But at least if you're facing three opponents, all with Starfox characters due to their high popularity in the Smash series, you're not forced to sit through the same boring crap each time.


"Boring crap"? The Landmaster is one of the better final smashes in the game, and part of it is how you use your final smash to defeat the opponent. And having it similar to Snake's with a new look and slightly different mechanics is really no different from how it is now compared to the other landmasters.

Also, unless I got the meaning wrong, the only final smash that's really impressive thematically is Captain Falcon's.



> The Arwing isn't the only blatently obvious Final Smash that could've been had, either. Toon Link should've had the Hurricane Spin, his upgraded Spin Attack from Wind Waker. That was the shit.


Meh, I didn't really think it was all that great.



> Donkey Kong's (I know his wasn't a repeat, but just for the record...) Should've been to ride on Rhambi, seeing as his recent rhythm games are hardly what his franchise is known for.


But it's unique.



> As for Ness and Lucas, well, PK StarStorm wasn't the only super-powerful attack in the Mother series.


I'll admit PK Rockin' and PK Love could have also worked, but they aren't "legendary" spells in the plot of each game like Starstorm is.



WolfoxOkamichan said:


> ...why are you guys using 4 characters? You can do it even with 2 characters with the other being controlled by the CPU. Set it to Flower mode, Stamina, 1HP (except your character), and FAST Brawl.


4 makes it easier since each fight then counts as 4 battles (one for each character).



> And another thing - good Lord, now I remembered why I hate the Smash community. YOU PEOPLE STILL THINK WOLF IS A CLONE? DAMN. Play some other games for crying out loud.


Nobody in the Smash community thinks Wolf is a clone. Only those who have never played the game would claim Wolf is a clone.



> Hahaha no. Pikachu has become popular in the RG (not RB since Japan only matters) because of his appeal, HENCE he acquired his anime. It's the same reason why Lucario became popular - he was one of the few characters who was announced earlier before DP was released, and Nintendo pushed it more by giving him a movie. If Pikachu wasn't popular we might've gotten Charmander or Jigglypuff as Satoshi's partner.


How soon was the anime/manga made after the game? If not very, there wouldn't have been enough time to tell which is the most popular since the series was first made long before sharing information on the internet was mainstream.



> Apparently the dominant Lords are all males so I can't really say for sure. And no - I thought it was Sigurd but apparently it was not. Those FE games apparently even sold less than Star Fox Command, which is the least selling Star Fox game.


Do you have a name or picture of this character? I garuntee I can identify him regardless of which game he's from if I have something to go on.

As for the last comment... Which FE games are you talking about? There's 10 games with various degrees of success between them. Also, I really think Command is underrated.


----------



## Kirbizard (Jul 23, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Nobody in the Smash community thinks Wolf is a clone. Only those who have never played the game would claim Wolf is a clone.


No character is a clone. <(^,^)>

Wolf is very much like Fox, but he's different enough to be considered another character. Like Luigi was to Mario in the original N64 Smash Bros.
Most of the attacks were the same, but a lot weren't. For example, Luigi's running attack was completely different to Mario's, aka Temper Tantrum =/= Baseball Slide. And the Special Moves, while identical, had different properties. Luigi's Jump Punch dealt less damage and less knockback unless it hit with the sweet spot and whereas Mario's fireballs would bounce, Luigi's would go in a straight line.
Same attacks, yet different. <(n_n)>


Though, I will admit that I am very disappointed that they had THREE Landmasters, even if their stats are different. I was hoping Falco would get some Arwing bombing raid thing at least... :/


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 23, 2008)

> Olimar, too.


 
Well, there's always the possibility of getting caught under his ship. Then again, if you do, you shouldn't be playing.


----------



## AlexX (Jul 23, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> Well, there's always the possibility of getting caught under his ship. Then again, if you do, you shouldn't be playing.


No kidding... It always lands in the same place on each stage, which is either the middle of it or the largest spot of open space on it... =/


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 23, 2008)

*shrugs* Hey, like I said: possibility. There's always that slight, free-for-all chance. CPUs need to be acknowledged, too.


----------



## Linko_16 (Jul 23, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Peach would like a word with you. Olimar, too.



*Some people are the exception and ought to have better Final Smashes. Big deal. And, uh, Olimar's is awesome, man; even if they don't get hit with the landing they still have enough damage racked up for an easy kill with Olimar's disturbingly disproportionate knock-back greatness. If you can't KO them after that, it probably wasn't meant to be for you to beat that person anyway!*



AlexX said:


> Then why does having 3 different landmasters bother you so much?



*See: The only fun in any of it, really, is how it works thematically. As in, boring if it's the same thing three times.*



AlexX said:


> "Boring crap"? The Landmaster is one of the better final smashes in the game, and part of it is how you use your final smash to defeat the opponent. And having it similar to Snake's with a new look and slightly different mechanics is really no different from how it is now compared to the other landmasters.
> 
> Also, unless I got the meaning wrong, the only final smash that's really impressive thematically is Captain Falcon's.



*Yeah, you clearly didn't get what I mean. I'm saying that how the FS operates doesn't matter, because all any of them are are insta-kills (Yes, some are better than others, no one cares because you can just turn them off if that bothers you). The only fun of any of it something interesting, something you can see and say, "Oh, sweet, he's doing that cool attack from his game! That's so badass!" David's got me playing nonstop, but I still get a kick out of Super Sonic, Wario Man, PK Starstorm, Cook, etc. When characters that could've potentially had something great ended up with a copy of someone else's just because the developers didn't have time while cramming in time for the release date, it was disappointing.*



AlexX said:


> Meh, I didn't really think it was all that great.



*Far better than Triforce Slash copypasta.*



AlexX said:


> But it's unique.



*It'd be unique if he threw up half-digested bananas all over everyone. It would still suck.*



AlexX said:


> I'll admit PK Rockin' and PK Love could have also worked, but they aren't "legendary" spells in the plot of each game like Starstorm is.



*Yeah, I'll give you that. Oh well.

Before you go off again, these are just my opinions! I'm not calling it the objective truth that only the theme of a Final Smash matters and not the function, it's just what I think is important.*


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 23, 2008)

Linko_16 said:


> *Before you go off again, these are just my opinions! I'm not calling it the objective truth that only the theme of a Final Smash matters and not the function, it's just what I think is important.*


 
Nooooo deal. It's obvious that the Rope Snake was to be a Final Smash and not simply a tether recovery. It would rival the actual Snake in terms of stealthiness and badassery.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 23, 2008)

AlexX said:


> How soon was the anime/manga made after the game? If not very, there wouldn't have been enough time to tell which is the most popular since the series was first made long before sharing information on the internet was mainstream.
> 
> Do you have a name or picture of this character? I garuntee I can identify him regardless of which game he's from if I have something to go on.
> 
> As for the last comment... Which FE games are you talking about? There's 10 games with various degrees of success between them. Also, I really think Command is underrated.



The games came out first, then the manga and then the anime (then a manga based on the anime). The manga series is a lot better than the anime.

And I just gathered that from the FE forums.


----------



## Stratelier (Jul 23, 2008)

Wolfric Blackthorne said:


> I'd have to say that my only real complaint would have to be my disappointment with Wolf.  He's too much like Fox and Falco.  I mean, his final smash is a friggin' Landmaster Tank!  That's SO wrong!


I was disappointed to see Falco using a Landmaster instead of something like his SFC craft.

But at least Wolf's is red, and it hits a helluva lot harder than Fox's or Falco's (for what it's worth).  I rather like Wolf; better mass than Fox and Falco (let's face it, Falco's running speed is SLOW), good agility to back it up with, his side special strikes at an angle (subtle improvement for its use as a recovery move).  His blaster has a bayonet on it so it can inflict melee damage as well as projectile, his smash attacks have a surprisingly long reach to them, and if you hit just right with his forward (non-smash) attack it will inflict some major damage.  In other words, while he has the same 'theme' moveset as Fox and Falco, there's a lot of differences in each individual move and you don't wind up playing him the same way as the others.



Huey said:


> That's only two ways [to unlock every character] =(


First way is to simply brawl and brawl a lot.  Second way is to find them in SSE.  Third way is some kind of specific task (like beat Classic mode with no continues, or beat 100-Man Brawl).  If you're interested, go look it up on Smashbrosdojo .


----------



## Wolfric Blackthorne (Jul 23, 2008)

> But at least Wolf's is red, and it hits a helluva lot harder than Fox's or Falco's (for what it's worth). I rather like Wolf; better mass than Fox and Falco (let's face it, Falco's running speed is SLOW), good agility to back it up with, his side special strikes at an angle (subtle improvement for its use as a recovery move). His blaster has a bayonet on it so it can inflict melee damage as well as projectile, his smash attacks have a surprisingly long reach to them, and if you hit just right with his forward (non-smash) attack it will inflict some major damage. In other words, while he has the same 'theme' moveset as Fox and Falco, there's a lot of differences in each individual move and you don't wind up playing him the same way as the others.



Oh, I'm not saying that I actually dislike Wolf.  Just that I thought they could've done a better job with him.  In fact, he and Lucario are practically the only characters that I use.  I still say that Wolf's FS should've been his Wolfen, or the Star Wolf team flying in or something like that.  It should not have been a Landmaster... He's NEVER used one in any of the games.  The Landmaster Tank was specifically designed for the Star Fox team.  Slippy was the one who designed it, along with the Blue Marine (the sub from N64).


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 23, 2008)

Wolfric Blackthorne said:


> Slippy was the one who designed it, along with the *Blue Marine* (the sub from N64).


 
Has this been mentioned in any other games? If not, good. Fuckin sub kept me from Expert for the longest time.


----------



## AlexX (Jul 23, 2008)

Wolfric Blackthorne said:


> He's NEVER used one in any of the games.  The Landmaster Tank was specifically designed for the Star Fox team.  Slippy was the one who designed it, along with the Blue Marine (the sub from N64).


Read Wolf's final smash trophy. He stole the technology for the Landmaster and made his better, stronger, and faster at the cost of fuel efficiency since apparently Star Wolf can afford such absurd fuel prices.



WolfoxOkamichan said:


> The games came out first, then the manga and then the anime (then a manga based on the anime). The manga series is a lot better than the anime.


The manga came after the anime? How interesting... But my question was how soon after they were made. If it wasn't very long, it most likely wasn't based on popular opinion (although since it would have likely just taken Japan's opinions into consideration, they would have probably gone with Jiggly/Purin if they had since she's the most popular character there).



> And I just gathered that from the FE forums.


Which FE forum? There's a number of them and some are more reliable than others.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 23, 2008)

The Landmasters aren't unique only to Star Fox. However, Slippy customized the Landmasters acquired by Star Fox.

Of course, *Brawl information means squat when compared to official canon*.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Manga

The manga came out before the anime save the Electric Tale of Pikachu. Anyway the site above contains the manga info and stuff. And there's a large gap between the game and the manga.

And I was referred to some weird site in FE forums at GameFAQs.


----------



## Linko_16 (Jul 23, 2008)

*I've gotten pretty tired of friends and family members seeing Pokemon Trainer and asking, "Is that Ash?/Why couldn't they have just said 'Ash?'"*


----------



## minihorse (Jul 23, 2008)

alternate costumes not just differnt colors


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Jul 23, 2008)

Personally, I'm happy with this game.  The on-line portion makes it more fun.

EDIT: Hmm, improvements.  Can't think of any right now.  Only played the game for a little bit.

Also, wall of text, and bold hurts my eyes.  :|


----------



## AlexX (Jul 23, 2008)

Linko_16 said:


> I've gotten pretty tired of friends and family members seeing Pokemon Trainer and asking, "Is that Ash?/Why couldn't they have just said 'Ash?'"


I personally wonder why they just didn't use "Red" since that's his official default name... Or why if they were going to stick with "Pokemon Trainer", they didn't make Brendan and Lukas alternate costumes...


----------



## Huey (Jul 23, 2008)

Linko_16 said:


> *I've gotten pretty tired of friends and family members seeing Pokemon Trainer and asking, "Is that Ash?/Why couldn't they have just said 'Ash?'"*



I hear you're fond of Ash. Is it his personality or his voice?


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 24, 2008)

Well, technically, you are still allowed to name him, but yeah, he is Red.


----------



## Lunar Fox (Jul 27, 2008)

The only thinkg I'd want to change is to ditch the golden hammer (seriously TWO hammers?) and tone down some of the other items a bit, just make them a tad weaker.

OH and maybe a way to get through lege gaurds, you know? Some way to get rid of the person lege gaurding by hitting a button at the right time, or at least grabbing onto the person and bringing them down with you.


----------



## Kirbizard (Jul 27, 2008)

Lunar Fox said:


> The only thinkg I'd want to change is to ditch the golden hammer (seriously TWO hammers?)


But you can FLY with the Golden Hammer, that makes it kewl, right? <3



Lunar Fox said:


> or at least grabbing onto the person and bringing them down with you.


... I like the sound of that. <(O_O)>


----------



## TehSean (Jul 27, 2008)

Why don't you guys just play a real game like SF 3S in stand up arcades


----------



## AlexX (Jul 27, 2008)

> Well, technically, you are still allowed to name him, but yeah, he is Red.


Um... I know that. Hence why I said it's his official DEFAULT name (not unlike how Ness is the default name for the main protagonist in Earthbound, but you can name him whatever you want).



> OH and maybe a way to get through lege gaurds, you know? Some way to get rid of the person lege gaurding by hitting a button at the right time, or at least grabbing onto the person and bringing them down with you.


Um... If someone is hanging on a ledge, you can knock them off by attacking them. If you think it's easy for someone to edgeguard you in Brawl, you've clearly never played any of the other two games in the series.



> Why don't you guys just play a real game like SF 3S in stand up arcades


This totally isn't a trolling post guys, I swear!


----------



## Lunar Fox (Jul 27, 2008)

True you can knock them off, but you do realize they're invulnerable when they first start hanging from the ledge, making it impossible to smack them off.


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 27, 2008)

Whether the ledge-hanger attacks, jumps, or slides back onto the stage, it's usually simple enough to intercept.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 27, 2008)

Well Smash isn't a fighting game so let's not put some fighting stuff here


----------



## AlexX (Jul 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Well Smash isn't a fighting game so let's not put some fighting stuff here


That's like saying Metroid Prime isn't an FPS... >.>

The definition of a game genre isn't as complex and intricate as people try to make them out to be. If you use long-range weapons in a first-person view, it's an FPS, and likewise, if the premise of the game is to have characters beating up on one another, it's a fighting game.


----------



## Rhainor (Jul 28, 2008)

Add Raichu and Ridley as playable characters.  That is all.


/THAT IS ALL.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

AlexX said:


> That's like saying Metroid Prime isn't an FPS... >.>
> 
> The definition of a game genre isn't as complex and intricate as people try to make them out to be. If you use long-range weapons in a first-person view, it's an FPS, and likewise, if the premise of the game is to have characters beating up on one another, it's a fighting game.



Prime is FPS. But Smash isn't a fighitng game. You don't JUST beat-up people in Smash. Heck, you BEAT UP people in games like DMC yet it's not a fighting game. Smash is more of a platformer. Heck, in Japan, it's called VS. Action and not VS. Fighting.


----------



## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

how would i improve it? well i'd say start with speeding it up a bit. The game plays more slowly than melee. It's not realyl a bad thing, but the option should be there (not lightning melee). More assist trophies. I'd have hoped for some more sub characters that make you say "oh i know that game, and i remember that!". Midna, panther/leon/crystal/peppy/slippy and the sort, (some Metal gear one).

FInal smashes that actually reflect the game the toon comes from. Mario should have had giant shroom, toon link should have had song of storms, (salutes to those who had nice and accurate finals)

that's my two cents.


----------



## Rhainor (Jul 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Prime is FPS. But Smash isn't a fighitng game. You don't JUST beat-up people in Smash. Heck, you BEAT UP people in games like DMC yet it's not a fighting game. Smash is more of a platformer. Heck, in Japan, it's called VS. Action and not VS. Fighting.


Metroid Prime is a first-person _adventure_ game; it doesn't focus on the shooting as much as the adventuring.

Smash Bros _is_ a fighting game, just not a normal one.  The goal may be king-of-the-hill style "knock everybody else off the screen", but you're still punching and kicking and slashing each other to do it.


----------



## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Rhainor said:


> Smash Bros _is_ a fighting game, just not a normal one. The goal may be king-of-the-hill style "knock everybody else off the screen", but you're still punching and kicking and slashing each other to do it.


 
and that's why i love it @_@


----------



## Stratelier (Jul 28, 2008)

> But Smash isn't a fighitng game.


That's like saying Mario Kart isn't a racing game.


----------



## AlexX (Jul 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Prime is FPS. But Smash isn't a fighitng game. You don't JUST beat-up people in Smash. Heck, you BEAT UP people in games like DMC yet it's not a fighting game. Smash is more of a platformer. Heck, in Japan, it's called VS. Action and not VS. Fighting.


How the heck is Smash a platformer? A platformer is a game where you navigate a series of levels (usually involving platforms) to get to the goal of each level. Smash didn't do anything like that until Brawl (and arguably a few parts in Melee), but even then, it's a rather moot point because that's not the main premise of the game. To say it's not a fighting game due to SSE is like saying that Mario 64 DS isn't a platformer just because it has some minigames for taking a break from the platforming action every so often.

Brawl is exactly what it was in Smash 64: a bizarre combination of street fighter and volleyball. You can be a fighting game purist all you like, it doesn't change the fact that the main premise of the game is to beat people up, which is what defines a fighting game.



> Metroid Prime is a first-person adventure game; it doesn't focus on the shooting as much as the adventuring.


Metroid Prime is an adventure game, but is also an FPS because the primary form of combat is ranged weapons from a 1st-person perspective, which are all that's required to make a game an FPS.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

It's a platformer because your goal is to stay alive by NOT falling off, something platformers have.

If "fighting" is something what makes a fighting game - then Twisted Metal is a fighting game. Halo is a fighitng game.

Again - Japanese said it. The company said it. The creator said it. It really is just a sumo game with platforms and items and Nintendo characters.


----------



## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

iron out some of the bugs too.... check these ones out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfue8vGEDcc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xv6HNATOnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm so burned out on this game. Sitting for five hours in front of a massive TV with a bunch of nerdy, crew tourney boys crowding around you is fun and all, but I'm sick of Brawl. Well, for now anyway. I'll love it all over again by the morning. So there's another idea: decrease the headache potential from long playing hours.


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> I'm so burned out on this game. Sitting for five hours in front of a massive TV with a bunch of nerdy, crew tourney boys crowding around you is fun and all, but I'm sick of Brawl. Well, for now anyway. I'll love it all over again by the morning. So there's another idea: decrease the headache potential from long playing hours.



And yeah, it's a fighting game. Compare Mario Bros. 3 and Smash and see what happens.

EDIT: What in the hell? I said edit, not quote, dammit.


----------



## Jarz (Jul 28, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> decrease the headache potential from long playing hours.


maybe some aspirin may help... or play less XD


----------



## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Ha, true. Also happened with Tales, even though I thought my gamerness was used to this. Another idea: less Ness jokes while playing competetively, but this isn't really the game's fault.


----------



## Wait Wait (Jul 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> It's a platformer because your goal is to stay alive by NOT falling off, something platformers have.
> 
> If "fighting" is something what makes a fighting game - then Twisted Metal is a fighting game. Halo is a fighitng game.
> 
> Again - Japanese said it. The company said it. The creator said it. It really is just a sumo game with platforms and items and Nintendo characters.



the platforms themselves aren't the enemy, though

you get knocked off platforms by people hitting you (unless you are just that terrible)

seriously i don't even know how retarded you have to be to not get that smash bros is a fighting game


----------



## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

gotta see where he's coming from though. Even in conventional platformers it's your enemies that usually end up sending you to your doom. Is this not similar?

btw, grats on noone falling for my rickroll....


----------



## Wait Wait (Jul 28, 2008)

Spaceberry said:


> gotta see where he's coming from though. Even in conventional platformers it's your enemies that usually end up sending you to your doom. Is this not similar?
> 
> btw, grats on noone falling for my rickroll....



i would say courses like big blue are _more like_ platformers, but they never really change the main premise of the game:  fighting

additionally:  stamina mode


----------



## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

aye. good point. But to me its the platforming/fighter hybrid that makes the game so unique... i hate all other fighters... that's why i usually seperate this game from mainstream fighters.


----------



## Wait Wait (Jul 28, 2008)

yeah, smash bros is more like a platformer than, say, guilty gear (which is a fantastic game by the way)

but they're *both fighters*


----------



## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

ah. no argument there, mate. i'm just saying that it's not without its distinct platforming elements. if i can find another game like that i'd prolly be all over it *looks at guilty gear*


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Wait Wait said:


> the platforms themselves aren't the enemy, though
> 
> you get knocked off platforms by people hitting you (unless you are just that terrible)
> 
> seriously i don't even know how retarded you have to be to not get that smash bros is a fighting game



Normally I'd ignore you but again you use insults to justify your argument, so it's worth noticing.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if you do get hit though. There have been players who survive with 300+ percent while others die with as low as 5.

The fact that the question that "is the game is a fighting game" always arises pretty much makes it not a fighting game. Again, the way people use the term "fighting" here by having double standards is laughable. Beating up people is a fighting game, yet you beat up people in other games that are NOT fighting games?


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

.... this is getting confusing :O there has to be some definition between genres. i mean they're not all hybrids :\


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm lazy so I'll just post this explanation...



> Your main goal is to navigate the stage in such a manner that you don't fall off within the time limit set. In fact, this is your only real goal- don't fall off the platforms. The only way to lose is to fall off the platform in such a way that you can't recover from falling. This is not a ring-out, this is Mario/Megaman dropping into bottomless/spiked pits (except in Smash, falling into a spiked pit just bounces you up into the air!).
> The versus aspect of it is that you have (an) opponent(s) (up to 3) who all have the same goal. The competition then is to see who has the most lives left when time runs out, or to see who runs out of lives last. Even more telling- in case of a tie between parties as to who fell off the least, the winner is determined by their score... but having a higher score doesn't mean you win if you fell off and lost all your stocks.
> 
> Here's the kicker- your interaction with the stage itself bears more weight in who wins than your interaction with your opponent. If you damage your opponent the entire match without him touching you at all, that means nothing. You are not winning until he leaves the stage- in fact, he could do nothing to you at all and still win if you were to fall off the platform of your own accord (or by mistake).
> ...


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

no arguments about brawl anymore, mate. I already agree on that. I'm talking... like halo being a fighter and all that. Where can one draw a line?


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

And some more...



> By default, right out of the box, Smash's primary, if not singular method of victory, is through the removal of an opponent from an arena, not through depletion of stamina. There is at least one way to win without necessarily RO'ing someone and not altering any options (mainly through points)
> 
> By default, right out of the box, Tekken/Soul Calibur/Virtua Fighter/Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat's primary, if not singular method of victory, is through the depletion of stamina, not the removal of an opponent from an arena. There is at least one way to win without necessarily depleting an opponent's stamina entirely (timeouts, in some games ringouts).
> 
> ...



I'm just trying to prove my point - but how can you prove it when people only argue back by saying words like LOLRETARD?


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## Jarz (Jul 28, 2008)

Brawl needs more blood/explosions/guns/death/corposes to be more like Halo


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

hmmm. three cheers for it not doing that XD


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Anyway, we should get back on-topic. Just because it's not on the realm of fighting games doesn't mean it's fun, now does it? 

Make Wolf shirtless. We need to see more of his man-chest.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Wolf has no manchest. He has a horribly-compressed-in-a-space-suit wolfchest. Now Pit--he's manpretty.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

agreed. not with you Taefaros =_=, previous post.. wolf is the bomb. My most anticipated character. Fox has enough forehead to plant a billboard on now, and falco's not really my thing . Panther would be fun tho.

Starfox assault style art. Good or bad idea?


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Fox didn't have as much of a fivehead in Assault, but I didn't really dig their new outfits either. Especially poor Falco.






YOU ARE NOT SEXY.

Brawl has a disturbing lack of barrel roll. And maybe Lukie could speak with the same Engrish as Ness.

Oh thanks for not agreeing, Mr. Berry. *cries*


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Pk Frash? PK file? PK THundel?. and wtf is with that pose. I liked falco's voice acting tho.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

More like PK Cross. Someone needs to Wall Staple his adorable ass.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

kk. liking little kids. say! how's the nom thread going *walks off, tail between legs*


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Actually Assault justified the characters by giving them semi-proportional bodies. Command on the other hand...

And as you can see in the pic, Falco has a toned body (you could see the linings of his torso). Wolf also has big arms in Assault (which you can see in Brawl as well as his awesome white fluff on the chest).






And I agree - needs moar panther!


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Leon. embarassment to the fandom? what about the other *lack of better word* miscellaneous Starfox furs. 

Slippy anyone?

and wolf's little furry chest tuft <3


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

I've, er, never really paid attention to the white chest fluff. Thanks for pointing it out...I think. 

Leon's badass. You should be dogging Andrew.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Yeah, Leon's badass.

And here's Wolf's sexy manchest + awesome muscular arms.






He really is made into one sexy leather-dude. It's as if Sakurai is secretly furry for Wolf much as how he is gay for Snake.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

*thinks of leon in starfox command* ARGH!

*hides*

Wolf's battle stance rocks. It is so animated. 
Wolf appears lacking in one department tho...
"we're gonna have fun with this thing"... *irish* not bluddy likely!


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

But Snake's already taken. I thought Miyamoto was the authority on the Star Fox crew? Don't put poor Sakurai in this; he must recover! (Yeah, I brought it back.) Am I the only one who thinks Wolf sounds like Billy Bob Thorton?

Too bad Mother has no sexiness. The closest thing it has is Duster, and that's only in fanart.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Breath of fire 1. Bow. PUT HIM IN. NOW

Wolf's voice is awesom. dis at your peril *growl*
all the PK in the woirld won't save you.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

I was referring to the fact that it's all right to be gay to Snake much as how it is all right to be furry to Wolf. And Miyamoto doesn't really care much about SF, Iwata does.

I think there eixts Lucas's dad (Thomas?)xDuster


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

i'd like to see the monkey miniboss from kirby as an assist trophy. name bonko or something, can't remeember.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Ah, OK. But being gay for Snake is like being gay for Chuck Norris. The similarities are just eerie to me.

No, silly. Lucas's daddy is Flint, who also looks like Chuck N. By the way, since we're running this thread into the dirt, can we post Mate Codes?


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

kay mate. you know all about mother 3. im warning you, spoil at your peril *Growl*


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## Jarz (Jul 28, 2008)

i think to improve it, the falcon punch should take less time to load


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Spaceberry said:


> kay mate. you know all about mother 3. im warning you, spoil at your peril *Growl*



Well, it's not like Brawl didn't do a fine job of that already, if yer know what I mean. 

What's a Ultiment?


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## AlexX (Jul 28, 2008)

What the- This topic went from fighting game purist-ness to completely random spam for 2 or 3 pages in a matter of hours! x.X

Also, everyone knows Captain Falcon is far more manly than Snake and Chuck Norris. After all, he's got the nipples, the knee, and the punch! *GO DOUGLAS J. FALCON!*


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## Alblaka (Jul 28, 2008)

The best improvement:
They should make Brawl for Gamecube. I played it sometimes and the special abilitys of WII controlers wasnt used.
So They could make it on Gamecube and i have that console ^^


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

And you've just added to the randomness, Alex! Congrats! Knee no longer qualifies for manliness. Nerfed fair is nerfed.

Except the Gamecube's been discontinued.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Oh right... Flint! I forgot that name. So FlintxDuster = NorrisxJones?

And of course we all know that Fox gets sandwiched between the other two alpha-furs.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Fox gets sandwiched between Slippy and Pepper? (Ha, didn't see that one coming.)

I've only seen one FlintxDuster pic. >_< Don't think I want to see more; DusterxKumatora is more...appropriate.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Lucario?.... anyone?


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

*Kicks Lucario* You changed your avie. Tear.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

just hold over til i finish version 2.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Oh sure, leave the public hanging.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Can i have your drawing talent pl0x? i pay in hugs?


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Lucario is like the male version of Renamon (well, Leomon and WereGarurumon are more for hardcores)...

And Krystal can't enjoy her WolfFoxFalco porn sammich because of you


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

I'd love to, but my scanner isn't working. Please leave a PM as soon as I'm done venting. Veeeeeeent.

Back on topic, folks! I wish a Landmaster would destroy all the world's tier lists.

Krystal can never enjoy her fuckin' sandwich. She's too busy riding on Cloudrunners, doing Fox, and sucking in Assault, in that order.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Funny how Sonic is really crappy outside of his Final Smash.

Something's wrong when characters like Falcon and Jigglypuff outprioritize your B moves.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Oh lawd.

I fought a good Sonic once. A really good one. There's a combo fiesta to his B-moves that people seem to ignore. We're talking about twenty-plus damage each time, Ice Climber chain grab style.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Aye, but sonic more than makes up for his crappiness with his completely unbalanced Smashball-grabbing prowess. sorta sucks for him in tournaments though. No smash ball for you!


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

I still stick by his non-crappiness. It's just very hard to prove. XD


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

The enemy probably has no "anti-combo" moves or escape stuff. That's why I love the furries for their reflectors.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm sure you can prove it. I'm an Australian champeen tho  Connection con, i winned! Mario ftw. power of balance > all... well state championship (T_T)... fine. Connection con visited my Local mall. i still kicked ass though at that and Gencon.oz.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> The enemy probably has no "anti-combo" moves or escape stuff. That's why I love the furries for their reflectors.



And that's why I love little white boys and their hitting sticks. I'm not saying it's hard to avoid the combo. I'm just saying when it happens, it happens. 

_I_ can't prove his worthiness. I ain't no Sonic player. Oh, and congrats. Mario used water gun.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

It's not very effective.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

True, true. DK would like to make an exception, however. Funny story, that.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

oh it rocks against heavies with silly recoveries (curse you DDD!!!!). but i find a meteor smash to be more satisfying.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Gawd I love D3. Fudgin flying tank. Who would've thought that Sakurai's voice could be so versatile?


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

TÃ¦farÃ³s said:


> Gawd I love D3. Fudgin flying tank. Who would've thought that *Sakurai* could be so versatile?



Fix'd.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

thing about the heavies though is that they all seem to go down via the same moves. maybe the ppl i play against who use em just suck...

My silver bullet are swordies though, the range catches me unawares, but then i switch to wolf. reflectors pisses my mate who uses link off, and my mate who uses lucario (lol at hi % blast reflected right back). plus the gun is a nice trump card.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

Gotta love that Sakurai. He (laughs) a lot.

I picked up D3 pretty quick after playing a guy who owned with him. It's all about mastering those aerials. Maybe we should test out a Wi-fi connection some time. Not now, though; it's 5:42 am here. Five more hours and I'll have stayed up for a day.

As for swordies, Toon Link is my unofficial rival.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

My favorite swordie is Ike oddly enough.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Ike is a welcome addition in my books. his moves are just so cool...


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 28, 2008)

He fights for his friends. He also does cocaine.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Marth look like a girl.... somewhere along the line it appears tendo got bored of grizzled ittalian plumbers..


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

One of Ike's friends is Samurai Goroh!


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

hm... let us analyse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




this is samurai goro. Desirable factor? nil...


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

You should clear Ike's All-Star mode then


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

i have 

i see where you're coming from... i just think Samurai goro is gross... one of the few trophies i didn't play with when i got it.


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 28, 2008)

you know what... I never really understood why Torchic came out the pokeball. This game needs more mudkipz and slowpokes.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

so i herd you leik mudkips?


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 28, 2008)

Spaceberry said:


> so i herd you leik mudkips?


i luv mudkipz

don'tcha luv memes?

In all seriousness, this game did things that were strange. The game feels too balanced out in the sense of what got boosted and what got nerfed. I mean I appreciate how Fox/Falco are slowly used less and less providing more a variety, but characters that were terrible to begin with, like Ganondorf, pretty much became unusable. (Bowser-cide is pretty funny though )


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Falco is still up there. =P

Although Wolf is a nice contender since he has that newcomer appeal and well... he's nearly fighting naked.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

i was very pleased with the game. i could ask for more but it would probably be me just being spoiled. meme?


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 28, 2008)

Spaceberry said:


> i was very pleased with the game. i could ask for more but it would probably be me just being spoiled. meme?


Do have to say that I luv weegee. My friend got a stupid kill or perhaps a really pro kill in FFA, couple nights ago. Managed to do the 1hko uppercut on all guys he was fighting.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

ah. sorry if you find this next question degrading, but do you know how to do the super uppercut?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




meme....


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 28, 2008)

Spaceberry said:


> ah. sorry if you find this next question degrading, but do you know how to do the super uppercut?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I sorta suck at the game... so I wouldn't know. I'm betting that it needs to be sweet spotted tho.

EDIT: Yup just checked Smashwiki, needs to be sweet spotted in order to move up to super. :\


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

kay, you hold the left thumbstick directly up while pressing B, sorta hard to land in the heat of combat but very rewarding.

at least those are the GCN controller controlls. im sure wiimote is similar.


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 28, 2008)

Spaceberry said:


> kay, you hold the left thumbstick directly up while pressing B, sorta hard to land in the heat of combat but very rewarding.
> 
> at least those are the GCN controller controlls. im sure wiimote is similar.


Try doing Captain Falcon's "kneecap of doom."  Pulling that off is just difficult.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

pulling it off is easy, pulling it off at the right moment is the tuff part. i had it under control for the brief time he was my main, but when tournaments approached i felt i had to touch base again by playing mario. Mario and wolf are my best now.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Captain Falcon is a turd. All of his moves have been down-prioritized so much that nearly everyone outprioritizes him (save Sonic).

Seriously, gust of wind >>>> Falcon Punch.


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## Spaceberry (Jul 28, 2008)

Falcon punch can now turn around if you're fast enough. that's a nice advantage.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jul 28, 2008)

Just hit opposite direction as soon as you press B. And 180 PF has increased damage, but it still sucks in priority.


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