# time



## septango (Jul 10, 2013)

yeah, I know i just posted a rant/cry for help but here's another one

how long does it take you to do a peice, whats a decent amount of time compared to quality of work

becuse it just seems like it takes waaay to long to create a digital drawing, expecialy with the shitty quality that I end up producing 







this god damned sketch quality peice of shit took like 7 hours or more to do

so yeah, what is the usual amount of time it takes to do something like that, and how do I get faster


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## dinosaurdammit (Jul 10, 2013)

used to be hours until i got more in touch with my hands and had the coordination down. Now a simple sketch could take 2 mins to 10 mins depending on complexity of pose and the character. Speed/=/good. Remember that though. Just because you are fast doesnt make it good. Just keep working for days/hours till you get it.


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## Falaffel (Jul 10, 2013)

Time, friend, is a funny thing. Most people leave 80 years yet they still say they don't have the time. Why? I do not have an answer. What I do have is this. 
Life is a wonderful thing that no one should take for granted. It should be a celebrated event as it is the most wondrous and beautiful thing in the galaxy. Life should be spent being the best person you can be, not "how do I compare to others." so why is it that we compare? We are competitive by nature but what does competition matter if we all be our best? Right? Some do not see it this way and it saddens me. 
Life should be spent doing the things you love. And what is time without life? Life without love and caring? Nothing. This is why you must spend your time wisely doing the things you need to do to achieve love and happiness. It is why we work, study, and learn. You may not like it but we as humans need it, in this society, to live. Every wasted moment is one of regret. Every wasted moment is one with out joy. And what are we without joy? 
Live life to the fullest. 

 line art only takes me 30mins to an hour.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2013)

You get faster by doing more. You can try doing speed paints and time yourself but I find accuracy over speed is the better result. The more accurate you become by practicing the more you know how to hit those lines quicker so speed comes with accuracy. 

You can also get more accurate by scheduling gesture drawings. The more you build your visual library, you start learning how to construct work from the mind. "Ribcage looks like a box" "Deltoid reminds me of an onion bulb/garlic" So you should draw from life. That means taking simple exercises to start learning how to conceptualize from different angles.

IE. Draw a shoe. Then try drawing the shoe from a different angle without moving around it or moving it. So your brain tries to figure out how it would look at that angle, contemplating depth.


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## Recel (Jul 10, 2013)

Basically what Arshes said. As you draw more the better and faster you get at it. There's no magic to it, just... time.


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## septango (Jul 10, 2013)

thanks, Im just really frustrated becuse I have drawn traditonaly for years but could never seem to make any progress

so I decided I would try digital since it was so easy to correct mistakes and clean up, but now its just a exersise in trial and error, and endless cycle of erase and retry with shit result

and yes I know "practice practice practice" but seven hours is ridiculous

I am quite proud I didnt use any refs though


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2013)

septango said:


> I am quite proud I didnt use any refs though



That isn't something to be proud of actually. References help you understand what you're drawing. Professional artists use references. It's just relying too much on the reference (copyright reasons) where it can become a problem. However, if you legally have your own reference, like taking your own photos there is no problem.

Drew Struzan - http://www.drewstruzan.com/

There is a point where Struzan had so much work, they gave him photos to trace over to make those iconic posters. The difference is, all the studying and practice and his vision came into play. I really doubt without his skill one would get the same results just by tracing. 

http://muddycolors.blogspot.com/2012/07/10-things-i-rememberabout-tracing.html

So I reiterate, draw from life and practice from it. Digital doesn't make things easier, if you don't put the effort into it, traditional just takes away the fancy toys and makes you focus on the task at hand.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 10, 2013)

Seven hours is what it took me to do basic line art...digitally. I've been drawing on paper now. A LOT more. I've got some fully shaded figures that only took me a good 3 hours where it would have taken me triple that literally on a tablet. 
Because before my studies in my pad were never finished works. I saved that for digital, but trying to finish something on paper, I've become much faster or maybe I was always that fast.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 10, 2013)

septango said:


> thanks, Im just really frustrated becuse I have drawn traditonaly for years but could never seem to make any progress



Think of drawing like riding a bike. You keep doing it, you get better at it. However, you still need to observe and be informed at times and try new things. You won't be able to ride the bike properly if you believe you should sit on it backwards every time.

And if you're not drawing every day, do so! Spend more time practising rather than working on pictures you want to finish. As Arshes said, take up speedpainting or gesture drawing, those are helpful. 



> so I decided I would try digital since it was so easy to correct mistakes and clean up, but now its just a exersise in trial and error, and endless cycle of erase and retry with shit result



That's what drawing is all the time, really. With the combination of practise and observation, the shit result eventually becomes passable, to genuinely good.



> and yes I know "practice practice practice" but seven hours is ridiculous



Seven hours drawing is excellent practise.



> I am quite proud I didnt use any refs though



It's cool to be able to draw without using refs and it's a valuable skill to be able to do so eventually, but even the most accomplished artists still use refs. All your faves on FA, videogame/movie concept artists, disney animators, they all use refs during their work. Though it's a good exercise to use just your head, or as suggested earlier, draw a shoe from reference and use the aid of that reference to draw the shoe in a different way.

An exercise in observation, interpretation, and imagination, if you will.


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## TrinityWolfess (Jul 10, 2013)

I have a question. How does one get inspiration to want to draw but can't pick up the pencil? I'll admit, I'm little lazy but I guess I'm scared of paper and what I'm going to draw. That's what my old art teacher told me.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 10, 2013)

TrinityWolfess said:


> I have a question. How does one get inspiration to want to draw but can't pick up the pencil? I'll admit, I'm little lazy but I guess I'm scared of paper and what I'm going to draw. That's what my old art teacher told me.



Frankly all I can say is suck it up and deal with it.

Stop giving a fuck and just draw! Have a little fun to begin with. Don't be scared of anything, the paper isn't going to judge you.

Think of someone who's reluctant to go outside. The only way he can get himself to go outside in the end is to just _go outside_.

There was also a bit in Art & Fear about two groups being made in some pottery class where one emphasised quality and the other one quantity. The quantity group made far, far more progress as they just gave zero fucks and just went for it. The quality group however, didn't get far. They spent more time sitting around with their thumbs up their arses thinking about how to make the perfect pot and they ended up making little progress due to more time spent daydreaming.

_Just draw_.

Look at artists on FA like, say, Ricket AKA Fickle. Look at her sketchdumps - she clearly spends a lot of time drawing for the hell of it because that shit is fun. She also obviously got better over time in doing both serious effort drawings and lots of dumb silly tiny ones. 

She wouldn't have got better if she were afraid of doing anything other than her "serious" or "best" drawings. And idk if she'd be enjoying herself that much either. Learning to draw is a big undertaking, but it'd be a shame if you weren't going to have some fun with it.

Balance work and play in your drawing. Picking only one of those is only harmful.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 10, 2013)

TrinityWolfess said:


> I have a question. How does one get inspiration to want to draw but can't pick up the pencil? I'll admit, I'm little lazy but I guess I'm scared of paper and what I'm going to draw. That's what my old art teacher told me.



Intimidation is understandable. I still deal with it which is why I'm not exactly social with artists. But if it's an interest you'd to make into a passion especially for profit in the future, you got get over the hump. And I don't mean wait until after Wednesday, I mean start...now. 

Don't leap into massive things first. Try gesture sketching and learning how to proportion your subjects and composition. You'll get there. :3


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2013)

The way to start drawing is to *start drawing*. Not drawing is not producing. You may not have made mistakes but you also didn't create anything. So what will you do, sit there hoping you won't make a mistake, or make mistakes and learn along the way?

Even though Noah Bradley talks about not going to art school, there are a ton of resources to help inspire an artist. 

https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/138c5efd45e9

Listen to podcasts, watch youtubes - http://www.youtube.com/user/digitalbobertâ€Ž


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## TrinityWolfess (Jul 10, 2013)

Thank you guys. I shall find a line art drawing and work off of that. I have the same fear for playing guitar. Usually it's because someone is around and I get shy. I know I'm not the best at both worlds but you are right. You won't get better till you actually sit down and do it. I definitely do not want to sit on my thumb inside my arse lol.


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## Zydala (Jul 10, 2013)

I literally have to fight off that little critic in my head to draw. I've done maybe half to a quarter of the amount of drawing that my girlfriend has done, and it totally shows. I really regret not being more dedicated and disciplined and letting my fear get to me. I don't want anyone else to do the same.


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## 0rang3 (Jul 13, 2013)

Hmmm, for digital art sketch alone took about an hour or more 
Lineart took another hour bcz GOD INTERNET IS DISTRACTING.

For colouring, about 4 hours or more, in this period of time i got distracted by teh mighty internetz causing the increase of working time


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## PurryFurry (Oct 27, 2013)

*septango*:  My advice to you (if you want it lol) is similar to what Arshes said:  try some gesture drawings, time yourself and go for accuracy.  It's all  about training the right side of your brain to understand shapes (the  right side of your brain is the mostly 'creative/spatial' side, the left  side is the 'logical/math/etc' side).  You've gotta train it just like  you'd have to train yourself before you go run a marathon.  Looking at  references isn't bad, in fact it's a good way to learn!  If you're  trying to draw ferals or anthros, a suggestion would be to use a human  friend or pet as a model and just try to capture different poses in  quick sketches.  Like try to do it within 1 minute.  The finished  product doesn't have to be good, all that you want to aim for is being  able to tell what it is when you're done- like 'its a human and it's  sitting on the couch with a laptop' or 'its a cat and its sleeping all  curled up with its tail over its face'.  Once you get that down with a  few drawings, work toward making your sketches more accurate or  stylized.

There's also a lot of books for anatomy for artists.   Two I like are 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' by Betty Edwards  (which teaches you how to draw realistically even if you're a complete  nOOb) and 'Drawing Cutting Edge Anatomy' by Christopher Hart (not all  his art is polished in my honest opinion, but he's good at explaining  muscle groups for comic book style art).  

Now, if I were to do a  gesture drawing, I could do it in 1 minute or less.  BUT it wouldn't be  something of the quality I'd want to put on FA even as a 'sketch' at  this point.  I'd add some details and re-work some lines and sometimes I  get to a sketch I like in 5-15minutes.  

*TrinityWolfess* 	 : It's been said already, but just start drawing!  Throw caution to the  wind!  You will learn little tricks and techniques to make your work  better with everything you draw.  And keep in mind that not everything  you draw has to be perfect, it doesn't have to be shared with the world  if you don't want it to, and never be afraid to experiment.  

I  think almost everyone has the same anxiety you describe- myself  included.  90% of the time, I think my work is Sh!t and I don't post it  anywhere and it dies.  So I have to draw a lot and every once in a while  I get something that makes me go 'OOhhh that's cool!' and I will  actually finish it.  And sometimes I even have to force myself to post  stuff online because otherwise I'd never post anything.  Some of the  stuff I have on FA I think is crap.  But if I only posted stuff that I  thought was perfectly perfect then I wouldn't be on FA and I wouldn't be  here.  What I tell myself is that it's a progression, and I'll post  some stuff that is good and I'll work on techniques and experiment and  someday I'll actually sit my butt down and work with a piece that in my eyes will be perfectly perfect, and I'll share it with you all in the hopes that you'll enjoy it as much I do and happy feelings will abound.


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## RTDragon (Oct 27, 2013)

PurryFurry said:


> There's also a lot of books for anatomy for artists. Two I like are 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' by Betty Edwards  (which teaches you how to draw realistically even if you're a complete  nOOb) and 'Drawing Cutting Edge Anatomy' by Christopher Hart (not all  his art is polished in my honest opinion, but he's good at explaining  muscle groups for comic book style art).



Do not suggest him any books by Christopher Hart there is a very good reason. The first book you suggested is a good start.


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## PurryFurry (Oct 27, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> Do not suggest him any books by Christopher Hart there is a very good reason. The first book you suggested is a good start.



What's the reason?  Just curious.


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## Jabberwocky (Oct 27, 2013)

A sketch takes me 5-10 minutes, usually.


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## oselotti (Oct 28, 2013)

Hmmm, a lot of support for aspiring artists here as far as I can tell. I could agree with almost everyone, the problem is when people say "practice practice practice"... as if just practicing could get you anywhere. Yes, practice has something to do with improvement, but it has to be approached in the correct way. It has no use if you draw every day if you do not get into a real learning process. 

You should search for what makes a picture a good picture, whatever that makes sense to you (what you like).
I guess what you could do, aside from doing tons of stuffs like sketching everyday, watching yotuub, podcasts, tutorials, etc (all of that consumed at once will just kill your brain) is get a good book, JUST ONE, and *read it from beginning to end. *

Make sure to begin your search with the basics; the fundamentals. Avoid stuff like "how to draw anime in 10 steps" or "drawing super great anatomy for comics" since that will get you confused, and what's worse, with the idea of having learnt something, but without getting into the basics. 

I'd personally recommend Kimon Nicolaides' _The Natural Way to Draw_. That thing has enough theory to get you started and a nice excercise schedule. If you follow that up, you will be not one, but I could say tons of steps away of many people. 

But getting back to my point: Choose one simple objective and follow it. Avoid getting your head deep into a lot of information. If you get one book and work with it till its end, you'll achieve many things:
1.- you will show you and others how much you are willing to learn how to draw.
2.- You will get the feeling of achievement. Real achievement, something that you can measure. That's the good thing of Nicolaides book, it has easily measurable objectives. Perhaps you could begin with one chapter. 
3.- You'll learn how to draw, but far more important than that, you'll learn how to learn things, and that, only that, will take you were you want to be 

So yeah, get moving and get into the stuff, don't hesitate that much, try everything that is posted here. Some comments offer good advice, others are somewhat vague, but hey, after all, you have the freedom to try all of them and see what works for you ^^


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## Misstoxin (Oct 28, 2013)

You know what no one told me for a long time that made me faster both traditionally, and especially digitally? 
Well, you see it looks like your drawing consists of a lot of small sketchy lines. This is really something you want to avoid doing. You should aim to make full sweeping lines and smooth curves without picking up your pencil. 
Start slow and work on accuracy (as many others have said.) Just get the line in the right place and don't pick up your pencil at all. Your lines will be shaky and unimpressive at first, but if you keep at it, you'll get faster and faster and your line quality will be considerably better. Also, if you ever really want to get into pressure sensitivity while inking either traditionally or digitally for line width, your inking times will increase immensely as well. I see some people with a small micron going over the same thin line over and over again, tirelessly thickening the line little by little. Frankly this is a waste of time and you can accomplish the same thing much faster, and in a fluid motion with a nib or a brush.

Just some food for thought.


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## Smuttymutt (Oct 28, 2013)

It takes me about 5 florence and the machine on repeat to complete a page. I dont really notice the time though because I can get into the zone and time speeds by. But yeah practice makes things faster, but not only practice but planning. When I thumbnail and color study/ value plan shit goes alot faster. ALso if I do warm ups before hand, for example gestures, that helps me loosen up and go faster.


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## Teal (Oct 28, 2013)

PurryFurry said:


> There's also a lot of books for anatomy for artists.   Two I like are 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' by Betty Edwards  (which teaches you how to draw realistically even if you're a complete  nOOb) and *'Drawing Cutting Edge Anatomy' by Christopher Hart *(not all  his art is polished in my honest opinion, but he's good at explaining  muscle groups for comic book style art).


No, his books should never be recommended. Most of the art in those books isn't even drawn by him and the stuff that is, is terrible.
He acts like he knows everything and actually gives bad advice sometimes.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2013)

PurryFurry said:


> What's the reason?  Just curious.



He doesn't even fucking draw for one.

Do you go to a car mechanic that has never cooked for recipes?


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## Teal (Oct 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> He doesn't even fucking draw for one.
> 
> Do you go to a car mechanic that has never cooked for recipes?


 Take this one for example: http://www.amazon.com/Manga-Mania-Magical-Girls-Friends/dp/0823029689/ref=pd_sim_b_6
Click look inside and scroll down a little.
See the section that says "contributing artists"? 
Look at how much Chris Hart has contributed. Pages 23-27

Those few pages are him showing anatomy. Which is stylized badly. 
I know because I have this book, (got it as a gift) and unfortunately you can't see how bad it is since the preview lacks those pages.


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## RTDragon (Oct 28, 2013)

Also if you search for him on tumblr you will see a lot more of this especially DA testimonies since he has a DA account.


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## Aevacat (Oct 29, 2013)

my favorite Christopher Hart moment is when he said boobs are muscles. 
http://25.media.tumblr.com/f81e282fb82108c76a3640b3fbfc550d/tumblr_mkaoouDSAs1r34y4ho1_500.jpg

For me it varies on how long it takes for a piece cause sometimes I just can't force it.  I can work relatively fast if I have developed an idea in my head and thought it through a bit beforehand.  If I'm approaching it blank, I'll probably abandon it halfway. I echo that fundamentals of anatomy are really important, and thinking about composition, colour and narrative are also really helpful to scrutinize before diving into a piece.  It saves a lot of time from doing fix ups later on.


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## Blue Taffy (Oct 30, 2013)

what you drew would prob take me four or five hours. I'm really slow. Not seven hours though.

Most pieces take me four to twelve hours.


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## Blue Taffy (Oct 30, 2013)

Aevacat said:


> my favorite Christopher Hart moment is when he said boobs are muscles.
> http://25.media.tumblr.com/f81e282fb82108c76a3640b3fbfc550d/tumblr_mkaoouDSAs1r34y4ho1_500.jpg
> 
> For me it varies on how long it takes for a piece cause sometimes I just can't force it.  I can work relatively fast if I have developed an idea in my head and thought it through a bit beforehand.  If I'm approaching it blank, I'll probably abandon it halfway. I echo that fundamentals of anatomy are really important, and thinking about composition, colour and narrative are also really helpful to scrutinize before diving into a piece.  It saves a lot of time from doing fix ups later on.


........ boobs are fat on top of muscle. In a way this is correct. Small boobs are mostly all muscle.

*twitches which repressed urge to call you a moron for bitching about how someone doesn't know something that you yourself don't know, when that person is correct*

*deep breath*

*grits teeth*

That was not very nice of you- to not only complain about someone else, but try and spread misinformation.


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## Teal (Oct 30, 2013)

Blue Taffy said:


> ........ boobs are fat on top of muscle. In a way this is correct. Small boobs are mostly all muscle.
> 
> *twitches which repressed urge to call you a moron for bitching about how someone doesn't know something that you yourself don't know, when that person is correct*
> 
> ...


Don't double post.

And guys you may want to look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobules (it's a cut-away illustration of a breast)


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## Blue Taffy (Oct 30, 2013)

Teal said:


> Don't double post.
> 
> And guys you may want to look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobules (it's a cut-away illustration of a breast)


http://www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/female-chest-muscles  see that raised muscle underneath?

: O wahlah

the breast is


fat on top of muscle....

the smaller a boob is

the more muscular it is.

Women who are very very muscular and have very little fat have boobs that look like pecs- because that's basically what they are when you get into the nitty gritty. Bing search female body builders. (this is not true for all women, of course).

a large boob which is real and not fake will have jiggle and bounce. breasts generally jiggle in tandem- pictures of one boob bouncing one direction and the other pointing down and doing some weird circle dance are usually just the artist having fun.

Because of this larger breasts, which are mostly fat (speaking in generalities) will be saggier.

The way to tell if someone had a (cheap) boob job is to look to see if the boobs jiggle and bounce when she walks. OF course, her clothes will effect this. If she has a sports bra on those puppies will be squished. see: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag4C0MFRnmE


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## zhuria (Oct 30, 2013)

Blue Taffy said:


> http://www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/female-chest-muscles  see that raised muscle underneath?
> 
> : O wahlah
> 
> ...


Are you seriously nitpicking on the "boobs on top of pectorals" stuff?
Boobs are not muscles, they have muscles underneath them, and even smaller boobs have the structure Teal linked. Not the structure shown on the Chris Hart pic. I'm sorry, but this http://25.media.tumblr.com/f81e282fb82108c76a3640b3fbfc550d/tumblr_mkaoouDSAs1r34y4ho1_500.jpg aren't breasts, those are some kind of muscles (that don't even work as such) covering breasts. 
The only way you could see only the pectoral in a woman is when they had a masteoctomy and they didn't get implants.
Here's a female bodybuilder for you: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TZoeiOEqc...k/cw9PGPN8dJQ/s320/female+bodybuilder+(6).jpg
You can see there are pectorals and boobs, not only pectorals. Also, boobs are quite lower in the chest than pectorals, as shown on this link http://www.healthline.com/human-body-maps/female-chest-muscles that you posted.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 30, 2013)

Some people need to spend their time learning anatomy and drawing it instead of coming here to argue about it.


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## PurryFurry (Nov 1, 2013)

Uhhh... can I just say sorry for ever recommending Christopher Hart and getting off topic?  I had no idea he didn't do his own work, and checking out his Deviant Art page made me facepalm so hard... I am embarrassed 

*septango* 	 , please don't listen to what I said about Christopher Hart lol   I have been shown the light.

Thank you to everyone who corrected this before septango got hurt.  If I could make everyone an apology sundae and send it over the internet I would.  Good night.


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