# Your posts on the FA forums are appearing on furnation :-O



## dave hyena (Apr 28, 2007)

http://furnation.com/index.php?showforum=41

Coo look, they are leeching an RSS feed from everything that is posted on these forums (including this post!).

Dragoneer/preyfar said in this journal:

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/118469/

that he is aware of it however, and that disabling of RSS will be done when gushi is back from the hospital FYI.


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## robomilk (Apr 28, 2007)

I actually knew about this already. I found it when Googling around and I found something on Furnation that I'd posted on here. That was a couple of weeks ago.

Didn't know it was with "sinister intent" though.


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## Dragoneer (Apr 29, 2007)

Alkora and I both sent rather... polite letters to FurNation request that they stop.

They have removed the links. RSS will still be disabled more than likely.


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## dave hyena (Apr 29, 2007)

Now the FA rss feed is gone along w/ all the other art stripped from the Fur.* usenet archives, because Alkora & Dragoneer sent unto Nexxus an e-mail politely asking for the removal of the aforementioned.


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## Jekkal (Apr 29, 2007)

Mebbe it's the naivety talking here, but what benefit does Furnation get from leeching an RSS feed of this forum? :/


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## robomilk (Apr 29, 2007)

Jekkal said:
			
		

> Mebbe it's the naivety talking here, but what benefit does Furnation get from leeching an RSS feed of this forum? :/



No idea! All we ever do is talk crap! ^^


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## Dragoneer (Apr 29, 2007)

Jekkal said:
			
		

> Mebbe it's the naivety talking here, but what benefit does Furnation get from leeching an RSS feed of this forum? :/


I have no idea. The RSS feed was linking from everything to support problems to general chat to more...

Honestly, had they even asked us if they could use the RSS feed on their site, I'd probably be fine with that. While an RSS feed is public, having a site like FurNation link to us (and Yiffstar, Flayrah and others) so openly seemed kind of strange.

That's not really a question I can answer.


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## Bokracroc (Apr 29, 2007)

Can we blame it on Violent videogames or Terrorists?


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## crabby_the_frog (Apr 29, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Can we blame it on Violent videogames or Terrorists?



Why yes, yes we can.


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## WHPellic (Apr 30, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Can we blame it on Violent videogames or Terrorists?



Neither. It was schoolyard bullies.


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## DarkMeW (Apr 30, 2007)

WHPellic said:
			
		

> Neither. It was schoolyard bullies.



 (Sigh) still nobody is willing the blame the parents. *shakes head*


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## Dragoneer (May 1, 2007)

All the blame lay upon Jack Thompson.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (May 1, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> All the blame lay upon Jack Thompson.



AMEN BROTHER!  Now let's go play Counterstrike.


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## Arshes Nei (May 1, 2007)

Speaking of RSS feeds, I suggest you create a "furaffinity_status" LJ on livejournal, and post the link on the regular Furaffinity LJ. Then when, you guys have to do maintenance or other site problem, you RSS feed it into the furaffinity_status journal where it will auto post problems, saving you time on having to cross post everywhere.


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## FuzzWolf (May 3, 2007)

Let me see if I can break this down simply.

The benefit to FurNation's users is being able to see important info, announcements and so forth from other furry forums.  Its putting all your furry in one basket so you can keep up with the community.

The benefit to FA, Yiffstar, etc is the cross-traffic.  The RSS feed only provides a brief snippet of the actual post content, then has a link to the original website such as FA or YS's forums.  That brings more traffic to your forums, it may make some people who did not know of FA before aware of it.  

Toumal of YiffStar has recently added more information to his RSS feeds to better take advantage of this kind of opportunity to increase his traffic.  His feeds even include little thumbnails to artwork posted in his forums, which you then have to click on to go to the original post on Yiffstar.  The actual art from these feeds isn't stored on FurNation itself, it just links back to the original post.

Its more of a community benefit for FurNation than a site-specific benefit.  We're not spending any money on the RSS feed system, nor are we making money from it.

Any further questions about it though, I'd be happy to help. 

Fuzzy


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## Dragoneer (May 5, 2007)

It'd just have nice if A) somebody had asked us and B) if you had linked to a proper discussion group instead of including support forums on your site, which in my view, made FA look bad. I'm not saying we don't have problems, but broadcasting them on another site is... well, it doesn't make me happy. I'll leave at that.

Either way, this has been resolved now.


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## FuzzWolf (May 5, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> It'd just have nice if A) somebody had asked us and B) if you had linked to a proper discussion group instead of including support forums on your site, which in my view, made FA look bad. I'm not saying we don't have problems, but broadcasting them on another site is... well, it doesn't make me happy. I'll leave at that.
> 
> Either way, this has been resolved now.


A) You make an RSS feed public, its assumed you want people to view it.

B) You've already admitted elsewhere your support forums should not have been included in the feed and that's a programming issue on your end, not the fault of anyone who picked up the RSS feed so please stop casting blame around.  If there were multiple feeds available, I can only assume Nexxus just linked them all without reading them but there wasn't any malicious intent behind it.

Fuzzy


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## Wolfblade (May 5, 2007)

There's probably just a bit of a difference between making an RSS feed available for users who may want it versus another community website picking it up without asking first, just as a courtesy, y'know?

Like the difference between somebody who likes your art making a sticker from a pic and putting it on his notebook as opposed to someone printing sheets of the stickers and just passing them out to everyone they know.

I think it's more a matter of feeling slighted in the common courtesy department than simply throwing blame around. And, in all fairness, it isn't like this place hasn't been given reasons to be suspicious of random 'wait, what are they doing?' sorts of things in the past.

It never hurts to just ask out of courtesy rather than assume one way or another. ^_^

You know the old saying; "When you Assume...... you usually get people upset with you." ;D


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## FuzzWolf (May 5, 2007)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> There's probably just a bit of a difference between making an RSS feed available for users who may want it versus another community website picking it up without asking first, just as a courtesy, y'know?


Truth be told, I thought it was a bad idea and told Nexxus at the time.  I didn't think it was a bad idea in general, just a bad idea in relation to this site because of the bad blood between Nexxus and Preyfar and I know how reactionary people in large groups can get if riled up.

Overall though, I see your point but I just don't agree with it.  I'm pretty sure CNN.com doesn't get upset when its news feeds that it makes available via RSS are added to one of the many sites on the web which collect news reports.

It's perfectly fine to request a feed be removed from a site you don't want anything to do with, but to say its FurNation's fault that it was put there in the first place when it was made publically available is ludicrous.

Fuzzy


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## Wolfblade (May 5, 2007)

Well, not entirely ludicrous. I didn't know there was bad blood between Preyfar and Nexxus. That being the case, AND that he had an apparent friend advising him against it, there is more than a little bit of room to suggest he should have thought better of the idea. Which really only strengthens the argument that it would have been better to ask first.

There's always a difference between a corporate entity and an individual. CNN is run by many, many, many people. They are a huge entity in a specific business. They have no reason to care what people do with their RSS feeds. FurAffinity is run by a very small group of individuals, and headed by one individual in particular. If that individual has had reason for distrust of another, and the other is doing something suspicious in relation to this site, it's sort of natural to have a suspicious 'wait, what?' reaction to it.

I don't really see any harm done, so I don't see anything that FurNation is being held at 'fault' for. It was just sortof a wtf moment which could have been avoided had courtesy been observed and Nexxus at least asked first. Throwing previous bad blood into the equation really just makes it more of a no-no for Nexxus to have ignored courtesy here. So, just a teensy bit of confusion and maybe a little offense, nothing anyone should get terribly worked up over, but if someone wants to find fault for a really negligible little incident; it kinda does fall on Nexxus for ignoring both the advice of a friend, and the general common sense to not do something that might (and obviously did) cause irritation to someone you've already had bad blood with.


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## Bokracroc (May 6, 2007)

FuzzWolf said:
			
		

> Wolfblade said:
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## FuzzWolf (May 6, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> FuzzWolf said:
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## Wolfblade (May 6, 2007)

Yea, verily. :3


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## Dragoneer (May 6, 2007)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Well, not entirely ludicrous. I didn't know there was bad blood between Preyfar and Nexxus.


There is bad blood between Nexxus and I, yes. There is, however, no bad blood between Furnation and Fur Affinity. I will still work with any other site, community, etc. in any way I can.



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> There's always a difference between a corporate entity and an individual. CNN is run by many, many, many people. They are a huge entity in a specific business. They have no reason to care what people do with their RSS feeds.


I wouldn't have cared about the RSS if it was limited to just FA discussion, but when I see support posts, people reporting abuse of the site popping up on "official" RSS feeds that I didn't know about... I dunno.

I'd have prefered if we were asked and if, out of the multiple RSS feeds these forums produce (none of which can be turned off) that the discussions feed would have been taken, not merely the "lump sum" of everything. I may be notoriously lunkheaded by nature but I'm very easy to get along with if I'm just kept in the know and even asked. I don't like surprises. I especially don't like surprises that, in my view, make me and the site look bad.

However, despite my initial reaction, they were removed swiftly by Furnation when asked, and they complied rather nicely. While I still wish that they'd have asked, I will commend them upon swift removal.

Also, screw J. Thompson, I love my Xbox 360 Elite and I will bring video gaming to the Kyrgyz. The former Soviets need violent video games like Viva Pinata, Pinball FX, Galaga and and Meet the Robinsons.


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## dave hyena (May 6, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> There is, however, bad blood between Furnation and Fur Affinity.



"No bad blood" right? :O


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## Dragoneer (May 6, 2007)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Preyfar said:
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SHAZBOT! Yes, I forgot to include 'no' in there. That completely invalidated my argument. Heh. Correctified.


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## uncia (May 6, 2007)

If I may just butt in for a moment...



			
				Preyfar said:
			
		

> Dave Hyena said:
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Nope, you were telling the truth the first time: well, at least your fingers were. 

There is a fair degree of bad blood between FA and FN which is entirely at your behest and as a result of your actions.
On several occasions you have issued diktats that any FA staff member is utterly forbidden from approaching FN in any manner whatsoever; one example being back-scenes of http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4495&pid=72602#pid72602 , hence the somewhat blunt termination of discussion in my reply there.

Having forcefully built up negative walls between the various communities which should be communicating with each other (in an ideal world...), it is inevitable that any previous "bad blood" on a personal level will have been extrapolated to site level since you are totally in control of such inter-site interactions.

d.


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## Dragoneer (May 6, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> On several occasions you have issued diktats that any FA staff member is utterly forbidden from approaching FN in any manner whatsoever; one example being back-scenes of http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=4495&pid=72602#pid72602 , hence the somewhat blunt termination of discussion in my reply there.


While I respect your opinion, Uncia, there was no need to drag this out from behind the admin forums and make it public. None at all.

However, given that, I will address what you brought up: I issued that notice to the admins after FurNation offered to take Fur Affinity off of our hands and host it for us because, clearly, we didn't know what we were doing. FA puts the community first, and I will not have anything change that. To be honest, I took a lil' bit of offense to their offer, but I didn't make it public, nor was there any reason to drag it out from behind the admin forum. I believe I had illustrated as to why previously.

FA is far from perfect (far from it) but it's in good hands and improvements are being made on all fronts.


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## Dragoneer (May 6, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> Having forcefully built up negative walls between the various communities which should be communicating with each other (in an ideal world...), it is inevitable that any previous "bad blood" on a personal level will have been extrapolated to site level since you are totally in control of such inter-site interactions.


There is no "negative wall" between us and any other community for that matter. We are on great terms with a number of communities, and I have no plans on changing that. We're on good terms with VCL, Wikifur, various conventions and other communities. As with the theme of our convention, I do think it's a good idea for the communities to be united together rather than fighting for this or that. I honestly do.

Yes, I will come out and say there were mistakes made on both sides. My issue with Nexxus, and the reposted art, should probably not have been made public. However, as my art was amongst those reposted, I still do have issues what what happened. Likewise, Nexxus really shouldn't have reposted them in the first place -- I was not the only person disturbed by them, but I was vocal regarding it. The sheer volume of them set me off, and it took life from there. In retrospect, I would have handled things in a different manner and let things rolls from there.

There has been little conflict between us in a long time, and I generally do not go out seeking it either. I honestly do not.

I'd rather go back to business than dwell on this issue any further. This had been resolved, and I'd rather each community go back to working to further itself.


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## uncia (May 6, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> There is no "negative wall" between us and any other community for that matter. We are on great terms with a number of communities, and I have no plans on changing that. We're on good terms with VCL, Wikifur, various conventions and other communities.


Semantics, weasel words and omissions? ^^
Even aside from FN, there is very little going on in the way of inter-site comms save, perhaps, on a "hidden" level.

btw. You haven't yet closed http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2133 , following your apparently unilateral decision (after discussions with =one= vocal FA community member) that fchan is no longer "acceptable" to be associated with FA?



			
				Preyfar said:
			
		

> As with the theme of our convention, I do think it's a good idea for the communities to be united together rather than fighting for this or that. I honestly do.


*nods strongly in agreement*



			
				Preyfar said:
			
		

> Yes, I will come out and say there were mistakes made on both sides. My issue with Nexxus, and the reposted art, should probably not have been made public... The sheer volume of them set me off, and it took life from there. In retrospect, I would have handled things in a different manner and let things rolls from there.


How many times has it been said "think before you act"? :?

Darned right, IMO (and in retrospect for yourself). There is a very good reason for that general ruling on FA that any "issues" outwith FA should stay outwith FA. We *have* warned users before for rallying support via their journals where that can threaten to damage inter-site relations or is deliberately targeted at a given individual.
You're going to be looking pretty hypocritical the next time you try to tell someone not to do what you did there in spades... even if you feel you _were_ "justified" in taking action in that manner.



			
				Preyfar said:
			
		

> I'd rather go back to business than dwell on this issue any further. This had been resolved...


*nods*. Rather than replying to fuzzwolf on Tensik's journal, you'd rather have a tiny lil' gay umbrella. Fair enough...

RSS was never a FN issue. That was solely FA's "problem" even if you were unaware of that public feed.
And the only _real_ issue with the reposted pics was (as eventually noted) the stripping out-of-context rather than in a proper usenet archive like news://news.critter.net/ . (You have a short memory if you still insist you never thought those pics were being archived since you explicitly mentioned critter.net and, even though they were "latecomers", their archive goes back pretty much to when you became more active in the fandom).
Agreed; both of those aspects could have been handled far better, _even if you felt that "had" to be done in public_. 

(There is another admin rule 'bout if one admin doesn't get on well with a given individual then someone else should be asked to assist, but I guess that kinda went out the window, too?).

JM-02 kitty cents, anyhow. 



			
				Preyfar said:
			
		

> , and I'd rather each community go back to working to further itself.


_(...still hoping for some learning points all-round, rather than everyone just generally sweeping things under the carpet...)._

Cool!  
Forwards, then... 
Plenty of as-yet unfulfilled promises for those patient community members on various sites; not just FA. 
Hoping things are still progressing "to plan" over here despite such "distractions".

Best wishes; and to y'all,
David/u2k ^^


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## yak (May 6, 2007)

post removed  by op for being a drama queen, a momentary weakness he is ashamed of.


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## Wolfblade (May 6, 2007)

Some clarifications, please?

[part of the reply, related to yak's post removed by yak]

*Uncia:* what are you saying in regards to FA's relationship to Fchan? Last I checked (5 seconds ago), they were still showing the FA banners over there. In one of the links you just provided, Dragoneer was defending FA's connection to Fchan to a vocal user. If we're missing something as to where FA has issue with Fchan, please point it out.

As for the other stuff you mention, WHY is it unreasonable for him to have told staffmembers to not communicate with FN people during a time where FN was trying to buy this place out? That actually sounds fairly logical and sensible to me if being bought out was not up for discussion.

If there are heated talks about the "troubled relationship" between FN and FA, I think it would be more to blame on inflammatory posts like Uncia's here rather than on the actual sites. 

From what I can see, FuzzWolf and Dragoneer were having an exhange on the specifics of this really tiny incident, not bringing up the rather larger previous incident, and there has been nothing to warrant anything larger than the minor disagreements on this thread. Except of course for people wanting to jump in and throw gas on the fire. :

So like, Can Everybody Chill, and let a resolved issue die?

EDIT: foot removed from mouth +-_-


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## uncia (May 6, 2007)

Heyas, Wolfblade. Clarification reply as requested.

Good to see ya around, even though I thought you didn't want that admin albatross ever around your neck for various reasons.
More empowered people is generally good, though, since y'all are still rather short on those... :?


			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> EDIT: I see Tensik declaring the removal of the FA banner from Fchan. I don't see Dragoneer agreeing to it, and I did see the banner there today. *keeps digging*


In plain sight:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/118620/#cid:794510
_Dragoneer: "Just updating that, since this comment was originally posted, we have removed the fchan banner."_ (royal "we"? )
- Discussed privately with Tensik, not anyone admin-side, afaik: then Xeno' was left to slog it out with Tensik on her journal. Not a pretty sight since fchan _is_ technically working against (c) although the "furry community" as a whole have been largely accepting of that as an "OKish compromise" thanks to the plus points combined with their DNP policy, image turnover and deletion on request.



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> If you re-read this thread carefully, I think you'll see that it started as a potential drama situation, but then (here at least) Dragoneer and Fuzzwolf had an exchange, and the discussion ended amiably.


Interesting perspective. 

This did not need to be public in the first place and Dragoneer cut things short on the mainsite rather than "ending amiably", hence Fuzzwolf carrying that unfinished attempted discussion back over here again, I'd presume.
The whole issue _was_ pretty much totally off-FA until Dragoneer's journals, in the first place. That was the "potential drama", not what FN had done which was none of FA's business from a "getting involved" p.o.v. (per the "leave other site drama at the door" rule); and especially not to stir up on initially misleading grounds.

If the rules have somehow changed and that was somehow deemed FA's business, why no ongoing "campaign" against http://www.lulz.net/ or any of the others that do far greater relative disservice with regards to "art theft"?
(FN's botch was primarily to strip the messages and decline to back down on that: all the art in question is still "publicly available" via news://news.critter.net/ ).



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Until Uncia felt the need to bring up old information that was apparently not meant to be public. Sometimes keeping things private is a GOOD thing, because it keeps people from assuming the worst and turning a minor issue into the appearance of a "fued."
> ...
> If there are heated talks about the "troubled relationship" between FN and FA, I think it would be more to blame on inflammatory posts like Uncia's here rather than on the actual sites.
> ...
> Except of course for people wanting to jump in and throw gas on the fire. :


Which, I thought, was one reason you didn't trust yourself with admin powers in the long run? i.e. Nicely barged in there hyping an us-vs-them defensive declaration rather than just reading what was written in a relatively neutral context to try to get a bit more transparency and honesty. PMing for clarification/explanation is not a problem... "Inflammatory posts" my paws... ^^ Try "straight-forward facts" to the best of my knowledge (but with that 02c proviso "in case").



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> So like, Can Everybody Chill, and let a resolved issue die?


Eventually "sweeping things under the carpet" ain't a problem if no-one feels snubbed and the overall outcome _is_ positive, but stuff like this keeps happening time and time again where people ignore rules/guidelines and jump in head-first when they _really_ should know better and/or discuss properly. Then promise it won't happen again, only for the same a few weeks or months down the line. 
Sometimes it's only a small drama burst, other times it's of "cubporn" proportions. Better not to risk going down that road whenever possible, IMHO...
Not "judging", merely "observing", friend.

(Please let me know if I missed anything out there or any further "clarification" required).

d.


p.s./aside: "Trying to throw some mud on Dragoneer" was still a bit OTT even with that defensive attitude. I thought you knew me better than that, or were you only talking to me before in order to try to obtain "insider knowledge" for personal benefit/leverage rather than get an overall feel for the community so that you could do more to help it grow as a whole?


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## Wolfblade (May 6, 2007)

Thanks for the clarifications.

For the record, I wasn't pushing an "us vs them" stance, since both sides made blunders. Those quoted bits were more (no offense) "us vs you." Not you specifically, but the general reaction of people on both sides trying to cast blame or fault on "the other guys" when both sides did some dumb things. You were just the most intensely "me vs you" post in this thread so far. Nobody can say Dragoneer was faultless here, but it's just as silly to act as if Nexxus shouldn't have known better too. Both site leads have made blunders, and it's the people in the middle, the users, who end up the worse for it. But it never helps when people try to cast excessive blame on one side or another just for the sake of blame.

As far as I could see when I made my post, and what still seems to be the case after reading further into it, the actual issues here: Nexxus posting a crapload of art without permission & FA's RSS feed being posted on their site, were both resolved. The posted art was removed (again) and the RSS feed was taken down with admirable speed from a simple request. All that remained was the comparatively negligible disagreement over blame for an issue that was no longer an issue.

Is it hypocritical for FA to get involved in the first issue when the stance has been to 'ignore it if it's off FA'? Yes. But was it really "FA" getting involved, or just Dragoneer, forgetting that where he goes, FA kinda goes with him?

Dragoneer can forget sometimes that when he may be intending to be speaking for himself, he cannot escape the impression that when he speaks, it will usually be seen as speaking for FA. Looking at the journal where he made the announcement, it feels more like an individual pissed over having his own art reposted, and not so much the head of a community rallying the troops. Was it still a blunder on his part? Yes. But was he bringing FA's guns to bear? No, he just was perhaps thoughtless of the fact that such would be the most likely outcome of his journal.

Do I agree with Fchan losing the FA banner? No. I'm sure he'll be getting flak from that. It isn't the first time he's done something thinking it would appease people only to have it piss off a great deal more people. He isn't perfect. Do we all want him to learn from these mistakes? Yeah, that would be nice. Does it accomplish anything to publicly roast him for it? No. Hell, I've tried to rally public outcry against him for moves I thought were boneheaded in the past, and what did it accomplish? Got a lot of people pissed off and heated and that was about it. I stopped making posts like yours because at some point I realised they hurt more than helped. I had only recently learned that lesson, but I thought you already knew it.

There's a difference between 'covering up' and 'moving on.' When an issue is resolved, in the sense that it is no longer an active issue, "moving on" is what needs to happen. There's no sense in dwelling on who did what once an issue is no longer an issue. Like in the case of images going up, pissing people off, and then coming down. It's when an issue is still an active issue that it becomes "covering up" and causes more problems. Like when someone poses a threat to the site's wellbeing, and nothing has happened to end that threat, but details are stifled anyway, making it easier for the threat to continue. You know I hate cover-up, and that is not what I'm trying to promote here. I'm just asking for perspective. No matter how many 'woops'es Dragoneer made here, they wouldn't have happened (this time) if Nexxus had not restored that page after already removing it once. So shovel some of that blame in the other direction as well, if you please.



> p.s./aside: "Trying to throw some mud on Dragoneer" was still a bit OTT even with that defensive attitude. I thought you knew me better than that, or were you only talking to me before in order to try to obtain "insider knowledge" for personal benefit/leverage rather than get an overall feel for the community so that you could do more to help it grow as a whole?



We'd be liars if either of us tried to deny playing that game. You made several little hits at me just as I made hits at you, and you had made hits at Dragoneer. My opinion of you has flip-flopped at least twice, because honestly, your motivations confuse me. One moment you seem to be putting the good of the community before everything else, and the next you let a personal frustration get you to inflame a situation to get a hit in against the guy who's pissed you off (something I used to do too, I know). I have always been motivated primarily by the best interests of this community. In the beginning, I too often let my personal distaste for someone get in the way of that, and would make a situation worse than it needed to be without realising how I was hurting my own cause. I've tried to learn from my mistakes though, and haven't done what you did here just now in a very long time.

As for "insider knowledge", I don't recall ever having your toes in a vice or anything, so if you ever gave me info I wasn't supposed to have, I can hardly be blamed for accepting what was given, now can I? :

Is Dragoneer perfect? No. Neither is Nexxus. Nor was Jheryn or Arcturus. None of the would-be community leaders have ever been, or ever will be, without flaws. But maybe, just maybe, if the users, if the members of these communities would stop fixating on their faults, and focus on trying to work around them for the betterment of all, this sort of shit would stop happening.

This issue was done save for the cleanup and the always inevitable "it was your fault" from people on both sides. Your post here had no intent, and served no purpose, but to cast more negative light on Dragoneer (doesn't he do that enough himself?), which does nothing but hurt both communities, keep people fighting over who did what, and prevent people from just going on about their enjoyment of the nice pretty pornses. -_-

So, everything else aside: Is there still an open issue here? Not the matter of "oh, but he'll do it again someday", but I mean right here, right now, is the disagreement between FA and FN still active and open with some matter still to be addressed?

If so, let's work on that. If not, let's move on.


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## uncia (May 6, 2007)

Welcome, WB; as you were to discuss via PM or AIM to clarify any misunderstandings prior to posting.


			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Is it hypocritical for FA to get involved in the first issue when the stance has been to 'ignore it if it's off FA'? Yes. But was it really "FA" getting involved, or just Dragoneer, forgetting that where he goes, FA kinda goes with him?
> 
> Dragoneer can forget sometimes that when he may be intending to be speaking for himself, he cannot escape the impression that when he speaks, it will usually be seen as speaking for FA. Looking at the journal where he made the announcement, it feels more like an individual pissed over having his own art reposted, and not so much the head of a community rallying the troops.


Missing the point. Either would be contrary to the "drama off FA stays off FA" ruling - regardless of whether that's done on a personal _or_ a site basis.



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Was it still a blunder on his part? Yes. But was he bringing FA's guns to bear? No, he just was perhaps thoughtless of the fact that such would be the most likely outcome of his journal.


I'd hope I'd give him more credit than that.
If Nexxus had not thrown in the towel the drama fallout could have been far worse than just a bloody nose to FN.



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> I stopped making posts like yours because at some point I realised they hurt more than helped. I had only recently learned that lesson, but I thought you already knew it?


Heh. Thanks again for the "talking down" and automatic negative presumption.
So "(writing) in a relatively neutral context to try to get a bit more transparency and honesty" is not OK but casually proclaiming that things are hunky-dory when in reality there's a blanket ban (not just at one specific time) on those inter-site communications is? Fair enough.

Don't frighten the horses...?



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> No matter how many 'woops'es Dragoneer made here, they wouldn't have happened (this time) if Nexxus had not restored that page after already removing it once. So shovel some of that blame in the other direction as well, if you please.


And as was written...
"(FN's botch was primarily to strip the messages and decline to back down on that: all the art in question is still "publicly available" via news://news.critter.net/ )."



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> One moment you seem to be putting the good of the community before everything else, and the next you let a personal frustration get you to inflame a situation to get a hit in against the guy who's pissed you off (something I used to do too, I know)... In the beginning, I too often let my personal distaste for someone get in the way of that, and would make a situation worse than it needed to be without realising how I was hurting my own cause. I've tried to learn from my mistakes though, and haven't done what you did here just now in a very long time.


You appear to be assuming that I am acting in the same manner you say you used to and basing everything on that. Entirely your call and nothing I can do to convince you that you are incorrect in that assumption.



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Is Dragoneer perfect? No. Neither is Nexxus. Nor was Jheryn or Arcturus. None of the would-be community leaders have ever been, or ever will be, without flaws. But maybe, just maybe, if the users, if the members of these communities would stop fixating on their faults, and focus on trying to work around them for the betterment of all, this sort of shit would stop happening.


Which has nothing whatsoever to do with why "all this happened"...

Regardless, I can see very few people fixating on faults around here: the FA community is by-and-large extremely patient and forgiving. Kudos to y'all for that. 



			
				Wolfblade said:
			
		

> So, everything else aside: Is there still an open issue here? Not the matter of "oh, but he'll do it again someday", but I mean right here, right now, is the disagreement between FA and FN still active and open with some matter still to be addressed?
> If so, let's work on that. If not, let's move on.


Nexxus has stated that he'll put the usenet archives back online again (in original format, with deletes functioning) and Dragoneer has apparently stated that that's AOK, therefore there shouldn't be any further issue should that happen.
Hopefully that side is covered, anyhow.

d.


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## Wolfblade (May 6, 2007)

Personal stuff responded to privately :3

As for what matters:


			
				Uncia said:
			
		

> Wolfblade said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well alrighty then :3


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