# False Suspension from FA with no investigation >.>



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Hi ok now ive never been blocked from anything before so im not sure how all of this really even happened.
2 days ago i submitted some new artwork of which i created, one of the 2 uploads was heavily referenced from another picture. At some point some one proceeded to confront me about it ((aka trolling)) In the comments i clearly stated that i referenced the picture from another artist. How ever the for some thing to be a trace all lines must be the same correct? I have had several people some of which ive never really known before the last 2 days look at the two pictures and the can easily tell it was not traced mainly because one if you over lay the pictures the lines dont F**king match up. 

Excuse my rude typing. An artist reserves the right to clam art work and characters they create, but they can not clam a concept such as a position of a character or and expression.

This is what tracing is http://www.dotcalmvillage.net/nowwhatzinesep02/tracing1.html
This is what plagiarism is http://www.plagiarism.org/plag_article_what_is_plagiarism.html

This is the FA  AUP http://help.furaffinity.net/article/AA-00205/8/Acceptable-Upload-Policy-AUP.html
---
This is what the admin (the name i wont release yet to reduce drama) says i was suspended for 
*Tracing and Plagiarism
*

 FA respects the work of artists and content creators. Tracing and  plagiarism are not permitted on FA, and images confirmed (never proved a confirmation)  to be traced or  plagiarized will be removed from the site without warning. In addition,  the uploader may receive a suspension, a one-time warning (which there was not one) , and face a  potential gallery wipe. A second offense may result in a permanent  suspension.

---

In fact i was trolled for it then a few hours later i was suspended  from the site. Not to point the finger but this tells me that the admin blocked me at the words and expense of some one else without even considering to look into the matter deeply.

Similar images do not make them one in the same In fact i feel that had i not said in the comment box giving the artist i referenced from credit they would have never noticed but screw me for trying to do the right thing. So now i end up slapped in the face with a 30 day ban and no proof that what i was banned for was even true. In fact the admin never contacted me and even now i have herd no word form said admin. I respect that admins have to do there jobs how ever for situations such as this one i feel they need to consider looking a  bit deeper into the issue before slapping some one up the face with a suspension.

I have both my image i drew (on paper first as well) and the image i referenced from if any one would like to take a look for theme selves. As of this point the admin has removed it from my FA account so it can not be found there. While i give the artist credit i wont not give my self credit when i drew the image myself with pen and paper for 3 hours.

My Fa page http://www.furaffinity.net/user/xxzerkkandragonxx/

I will not post the images here as they are adult and im not sure on the rules of this forum yet if some one wishes to contact me for the images to compare them or if some one wants to upload them here for me to show how they compare and differ from one another i can be reached on yahoo or msn just reply to me here first i dont like posting out my messenger info for any one to see.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 8, 2011)

You can't post the pictures here, but you can post them on an image hosting site like tinypic and post the link with NSFW tags. 
I recommend you do this for easy reference. The longer it takes to hunt down info from you the longer it will take to get help. 

On that note, you shouldn't ask the staff to come to you for msn info so they can discuss the ban with you. Admins don't have time to fish for screen names just to do their job. You should use the admin email to contact them directly.

edit: Just a note that "Heavily referencing" a picture can be art theft. You may not have laid it over the picture and traced but if you had them side by side and copied a majority of the lines then that would indeed be art theft. I'm not saying you did, I have not seen this pictures, I'm just informing. 
When you reference a pose it's one thing, getting lines of general body mass. On the other hand if you have more exact lines like clothing folds and such you have been tracing with your eyes.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 8, 2011)

How rude of you to exploit something that another artist worked on simply so that you could take shortcuts in your own art. Generally, people don't like that.

Understand how the human/animal form works, and you won't need to thieve other people's artistic interpretations for your own art. Make your own buddy!

Pretttty sure this ban is justified.


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Oh ok i understand the image posting thing but as far as the admin i have no contact information with them because i received no warning i would have just submitted a ticket but would you be surprised your not allowed to do that when your account is suspended.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> Oh ok i understand the image posting thing but as far as the admin i have no contact information with them because i received no warning i would have just submitted a ticket but would you be surprised your not allowed to do that when your account is suspended.


You'll want to send an email to _admin_@_furaffinity_.net. If you civilly make your case and have links to both images to back yourself up they will be able to lift the ban, or explain why you were banned.


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Xenke said:


> How rude of you to exploit something that another artist worked on simply so that you could take shortcuts in your own art. Generally, people don't like that.
> 
> Understand how the human/animal form works, and you won't need to thieve other people's artistic interpretations for your own art. Make your own buddy!
> 
> Pretttty sure this ban is justified.



While i understand your words at the same time i actually did nothing wrong i stole nothing im not making a profit of of it and im certainly not doing it often. If every one worked that way there would not be any art. Its like trying to say you can paint the building there because you didnt build it. As i said i drew it on paper and if the admin had the same out look as you its no wonder the ban was slapped on in such away. Even if in the worse case it was a shortcut its sill was not a trace. The FA AUP dose not state that copying a interpretation for anothers art is a crime thus the ban still stands as false.



Fay V said:


> You'll want to send an email to _admin_@_furaffinity_.net. If you civilly make your case and have links to both images to back yourself up they will be able to lift the ban, or explain why you were banned.



Thank you i will do so asap


----------



## Fay V (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> While i understand your words at the same time i actually did nothing wrong i stole nothing im not making a profit of of it and im certainly not doing it often. If every one worked that way there would not be any art. Its like trying to say you can paint the building there because you didnt build it. As i said i drew it on paper and if the admin had the same out look as you its no wonder the ban was slapped on in such away. Even if in the worse case it was a shortcut its sill was not a trace. The FA AUP dose not state that copying a interpretation for anothers art is a crime thus the ban still stands as false.


Heavily referencing another picture may be plagarism. Again we can't say if this was the case for your picture as we haven't seen them, but the note said tracing *and* plagarism. It could be either. If the admin "confirmed" it means he/she viewed them similar enough that it was plagarism, it does not have to be confirmed with the user.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Oct 8, 2011)

As an artist you need to practice through observation, not reproducing the works of another artist.


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Heavily referencing another picture may be plagarism. Again we can't say if this was the case for your picture as we haven't seen them, but the note said tracing *and* plagarism. It could be either. If the admin "confirmed" it means he/she viewed them similar enough that it was plagarism, it does not have to be confirmed with the user.



Well if you would excuse my rude language i think thas a load of cow pile  I would have still like to see what the admin referenced it to. how ever remember

[h=3]According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, to "plagiarize" means[/h] 					 					

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
to use (another's production) without crediting the source
to commit literary theft
to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.
 					 					 					  In other words, plagiarism is an act of fraud. It involves both  stealing someone Else's work and lying about it afterward. 					  

I didnt say i came up with the idea i didn't  try to sell the idea and well literary has nothing to do with it  and i never said it was my idea i never lied about the submission as i did give credit to the creator of the original picture. So rule plagiarism out by far. (in fact like i said had i not given credit that would have been me lying and saying i made it up all on my own with no help from anything and that it was my idea. i didn't do so because i know i didn't had i not thrown that up there no one would have noticed including said troll mentioned earlier  ))


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Tiger In A Tie said:


> As an artist you need to practice through observation, not reproducing the works of another artist.



I know this and rarely do reproduce.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> While i understand your words at the same time i actually did nothing wrong i stole nothing im not making a profit of of it and im certainly not doing it often. If every one worked that way there would not be any art. Its like trying to say you can paint the building there because you didnt build it. As i said i drew it on paper and if the admin had the same out look as you its no wonder the ban was slapped on in such away. Even if in the worse case it was a shortcut its sill was not a trace. The FA AUP dose not state that copying a interpretation for anothers art is a crime thus the ban still stands as false.



I'm sorry, but no.

There are artists the make art based on what they can actually see in real life, understand the form of the things they want to draw, and then applying their style in art, and then there are artists that reference several different drawings to get an d understanding on how they can represent something in art, but seldom do you see an "artist" that looks at one drawing and decided to replicated it, through tracing or by heavily referencing it.

The problem is you're not really creating anything, you're just copying it. It may not be a direct copy, but it's a copy none the less. It's usually frowned upon, and for good reason.


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Xenke said:


> I'm sorry, but no.
> 
> There are artists the make art based on what they can actually see in real life, understand the form of the things they want to draw, and then applying their style in art, and then there are artists that reference several different drawings to get an d understanding on how they can represent something in art, but seldom do you see an "artist" that looks at one drawing and decided to replicated it, through tracing or by heavily referencing it.
> 
> The problem is you're not really creating anything, you're just copying it. It may not be a direct copy, but it's a copy none the less. It's usually frowned upon, and for good reason.



Once again regardless it was not a direct trace maybe replicated in some way but the FA AUP dose not go against that there fore its acceptable regardless of how much you dont i dont or any one dose not like it its not ban-able by the FA AUP thus the ban should still be false. 
And not everything is based on real life even more so when it comes to anthro and furry art things are drawn every day that don't exist in real life with no reference to real life While there are artist that make art bsed on what they can see in real life there are just as many that make art based on what you cant see in real life.

Further more i stated that i said i did not create it in the comments box under the submission don't over look that part.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> Well if you would excuse my rude language i think thas a load of cow pile  I would have still like to see what the admin referenced it to. how ever remember
> 
> *According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, to "plagiarize" means*
> 
> ...



See you seem to miss the last one "to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source." It isn't all about deception.. You seem to think that just because you give credit, you're exempt, but it doesn't work that way. If you take the idea of a picture and heavily reference it, you are presenting that idea as if it were new, when in fact, it is not. That is plagarism. 
I'll put it in terms of literary fraud, since I know that better. Did you know that turning in a paper twice is plagarism? If you take a course and write a paper, then you have another class and that paper fits again perfectly...it's plagarism to turn it in twice. it's still your words, you're not stealing, but you're presenting old info as if it were new. 

If someone takes a picture and tries to recreate it with their eyes, that is dishonest. It doesn't matter if you credit it. By posting it you are saying "this idea is mine" when in fact, it is not. A heavily referenced picture can still be considered plagarism, even if you give credit. I'm sorry if you don't think that is true, but that's really too bad.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> Once again regardless it was not a direct trace maybe replicated in some way but the FA AUP dose not go against that there fore its acceptable regardless of how much you dont i dont or any one dose not like it its not ban-able by the FA AUP thus the ban should still be false.
> And not everything is based on real life even more so when it comes to anthro and furry art things are drawn every day that don't exist in real life with no reference to real life While there are artist that make art bsed on what they can see in real life there are just as many that make art based on what you cant see in real life.
> 
> Further more i stated that i said i did not create it in the comments box under the submission don't over look that part.




That is absolutely ridiculous.

Are you too lazy to study real anatomy and decide to just copy the work of someone that has spent hours (maybe even years) to get to where they are now? You will not lean ANYTHING by copying another artist. You know how people learn how to draw anthros and dragons and gryphons and such so well? _They studied animals/people in real life_.

If you want to learn how to draw, you need to learn how to draw what's real to learn how to manipulate it to become something unreal. Lack of motivation to do your own studying is not an excuse to copy someone else's work, regardless of whether you give credit to them.


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Fay V said:


> See you seem to miss the last one "to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source." It isn't all about deception.. You seem to think that just because you give credit, you're exempt, but it doesn't work that way. If you take the idea of a picture and heavily reference it, you are presenting that idea as if it were new, when in fact, it is not. That is plagarism.
> I'll put it in terms of literary fraud, since I know that better. Did you know that turning in a paper twice is plagarism? If you take a course and write a paper, then you have another class and that paper fits again perfectly...it's plagarism to turn it in twice. it's still your words, you're not stealing, but you're presenting old info as if it were new.
> 
> If someone takes a picture and tries to recreate it with their eyes, that is dishonest. It doesn't matter if you credit it. By posting it you are saying "this idea is mine" when in fact, it is not. A heavily referenced picture can still be considered plagarism, even if you give credit. I'm sorry if you don't think that is true, but that's really too bad.



Well in that way i can understand what you might be saying I did not understand that part hat by me submitting it it makes it look  as if it was new i looked at it as if it was not new there for i did not consider it to be plagarism.



Tiger In A Tie said:


> That is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> Are you too lazy to study real anatomy and decide to just copy the work of someone that has spent hours (maybe even years) to get to where they are now? You will not lean ANYTHING by copying another artist. You know how people learn how to draw anthros and dragons and gryphons and such so well? _They studied animals/people in real life_.
> 
> If you want to learn how to draw, you need to learn how to draw what's real to learn how to manipulate it to become something unreal. Lack of motivation to do your own studying is not an excuse to copy someone else's work, regardless of whether you give credit to them.



hmm No. I do study anatomy
I think you learn regardless so you  cant say you dont learn anything because you do, maybe not at much but you do learn its one of those things you learn regardless.
I dont have lack of motivation to do my own studying i never said that you did.


----------



## Kihari (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm not an artist and I won't delve into the artistic merits of  referencing and tracing, but I'll say this: Without seeing the works you  submitted and the works you referenced from, no one here can really make any  judgement as to whether or not you did a legitimate reference or a  suspension-worthy trace.

*Do not come to the forums to complain about suspensions.*

...but if you do (because invariably somebody will), *show us what you're talking about* so we can at least make an intelligent decision on the matter.  There's nothing us lowly users can do of course, but if you're looking  to gain support, you're not going about it in a very effective way.

Hint: Unless your suspension was truly uncalled-for, you will likely be booed out of these forums when you present a complaint like this.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> hmm No. I do study anatomy
> I think you learn regardless so you  cant say you dont learn anything because you do, maybe not at much but you do learn its one of those things you learn regardless.
> I dont have lack of motivation to do my own studying i never said that you did.



With that kind of attitude, improvement will be hard. You need to be able to make mistakes in order to learn. What do you do when you want to draw a character in a pose that you have never tried before? Do you study anatomy and try and learn how the bones and muscles move to make the pose look real? or do you look for another artist that has already drawn the pose and just copy them?

Artists, and even people in general, learn by making mistakes. By studying anatomy, as you practice you are going to make errors. If you copy someone's art, you make -their- errors, and it can be said you might STILL make your own errors if you make more errors in your drawing than they did in theirs. 

Stop copying, start learning.


----------



## Z-Dragon (Oct 8, 2011)

Tiger In A Tie said:


> With that kind of attitude, improvement will be hard. You need to be able to make mistakes in order to learn. What do you do when you want to draw a character in a pose that you have never tried before? Do you study anatomy and try and learn how the bones and muscles move to make the pose look real? or do you look for another artist that has already drawn the pose and just copy them?
> 
> Artists, and even people in general, learn by making mistakes. By studying anatomy, as you practice you are going to make errors. If you copy someone's art, you make -their- errors, and it can be said you might STILL make your own errors if you make more errors in your drawing than they did in theirs.
> 
> Stop copying, start learning.



I dont have a  attitude. And if you ever EVER think improvement is easy in anything you do you are wrong improvement is always hard work.
I thank you for the advice but i would thank you a bit more if you stopped talking to me as if its all i do when its not i just said i do study it and i do make my own mistakes all the time more so when it comes down to the coloring stage. but regardless im always learning so dont say it like i do it all the time.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> I dont have a  attitude. And if you ever EVER think improvement is easy in anything you do you are wrong improvement is always hard work.
> I thank you for the advice but i would thank you a bit more if you stopped talking to me as if its all i do when its not i just said i do study it and i do make my own mistakes all the time more so when it comes down to the coloring stage. but regardless im always learning so dont say it like i do it all the time.



I apologize, I do think I said those things a little harshly.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 8, 2011)

Z-Dragon said:


> I dont have a  attitude. And if you ever EVER think improvement is easy in anything you do you are wrong improvement is always hard work.
> I thank you for the advice but i would thank you a bit more if you stopped talking to me as if its all i do when its not i just said i do study it and i do make my own mistakes all the time more so when it comes down to the coloring stage. but regardless im always learning so dont say it like i do it all the time.



I don't see Tiger saying "improvement is easy" where in the world did you get that? The context is the attitude makes it harder, not that improvement is EASY.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm closing the thread because the suspension was warranted. There doesn't need to be a "user" investigation when an overlay proves otherwise.


----------

