# What happened to the artist known as Java?



## Cloudchaser (Jan 8, 2009)

Anyone got any idea why she suddenly left and deleted everything from her FA and VCL?


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## Aden (Jan 8, 2009)

She got outed as a dogfucker and went into hiding.


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## Nylak (Jan 8, 2009)

Aden said:


> She got outed as a dogfucker and went into hiding.


 
You know there's something wrong with this community when I honestly can't tell whether or not you're being sarcastic.


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## Aden (Jan 8, 2009)

Nylak said:


> You know there's something wrong with this community when I honestly can't tell whether or not you're being sarcastic.



Arm thyself with knowledge.

\And yeah, you're right.


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## Wolf-Bone (Jan 8, 2009)

ha... HA...... HAAAHHH!!!!


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## SnowFox (Jan 8, 2009)

Aden said:


> Arm thyself with knowledge.
> 
> \And yeah, you're right.



I hope I don't get arrested for viewing some of the links I followed :shock:


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## Lemon_Panda (Jan 8, 2009)

Like Aden said. She fleed after being exposed as a person who partakes in bestiality. 

*shudder* Ugh...


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## Internet Police Chief (Jan 8, 2009)

Aden said:


> Arm thyself with knowledge.





			
				from that livejournal said:
			
		

> Java can't fix it and has to give her LOVURRR away and bawwws since she can't get dog dick anymoar.



This sums up almost all furry drama, srsly.


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## Azure (Jan 8, 2009)

LOL PWND.  Srsly, sick fuckers abound in the fandom. WTF Furries?


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## Wolf-Bone (Jan 8, 2009)

wait, Java, why does that name sound familiar.


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## Quiet269 (Jan 8, 2009)

He/she has a lot of views... was he/she any good?


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## Xipoid (Jan 8, 2009)

Beastforum? Is there a topic people won't base a forum on?





Quiet269 said:


> He/she has a lot of views... was he/she any good?




Her style was unique and loose. Though I am kind of surprised people found this to be a surprise... did they not pay attention to what she was drawing?


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## -Lucario- (Jan 8, 2009)

Aden said:


> Arm thyself with knowledge.
> 
> \And yeah, you're right.


 
.....Awkward.


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## makmakmob (Jan 8, 2009)

I assure you I will have difficulty sleeping tonight because my sides will be _splitting_.
Ha, PWNED for dog fucking.


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## SnowFox (Jan 8, 2009)

Since this thread is now about dog fucking....

So people really do it... as a preference? I thought you would get something nasty like worms or dog AIDS


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## Internet Police Chief (Jan 8, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> So people really do it... as a preference?



*Furries.*


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## Trpdwarf (Jan 8, 2009)

All I can say is kudos to the ones behind ratting the dog mongler out. Good job.


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## Dahguns (Jan 8, 2009)

can't help myself



i accept teh infraction


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## Volkodav (Jan 8, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> Since this thread is now about dog fucking....
> 
> So people really do it... as a preference? I thought you would get something nasty like worms or dog AIDS



...You can.

You can get all sorts of stuff.


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## Volkodav (Jan 8, 2009)

Attorney At Lawl said:


> *Furries.*



Some of them.


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## Sherbniz (Jan 9, 2009)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

And I feel kinda sorry. Fetishes like that one possibly come a long way, and once they settle in it's probably impossible to get rid of them.

The human sexual psychology is waaay messed up. Almost anything is found sexually arousing by at least someone! 

I mean what was evolution/our creators thinking? Why is that even possible?

This must be some kind of sick joke they're playing on us...


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## LoC (Jan 9, 2009)

Oh lawl. Crap. ):


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## Whitenoise (Jan 9, 2009)

Holy shit this is awesome, I always hated that faggot and her shit bestiality porn  .


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## Sherbniz (Jan 9, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Holy shit this is awesome, I always hated that faggot and her shit bestiality porn  .



Now now, no need to be so uncourtly.

At least she didn't throw her dogs off a cliff.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jan 9, 2009)

Sherbniz said:


> Now now, no need to be so uncourtly.
> 
> At least she didn't throw her dogs off a cliff.



cool troll bro. I can't imagine any other reason to post that video on a furry website in a thread about something completely unrelated.

Besides, it was proven to be fake somewhere, but I don't remember where.


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## Whitenoise (Jan 9, 2009)

Sherbniz said:


> Now now, no need to be so uncourtly.
> 
> At least she didn't throw her dogs off a cliff.



Both actions are equally indefensible, animal abuse is animal abuse, it's all  equally abhorrent :V .


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## Sherbniz (Jan 9, 2009)

Attorney At Lawl said:


> cool troll bro. I can't imagine any other reason to post that video on a furry website in a thread about something completely unrelated.
> 
> Besides, it was proven to be fake somewhere, but I don't remember where.



Yeah, I heard that too. I can't help but notice that it looks quite realistic, however. >_>

Nontheless I thought it would make a good way of visualizing my "point". ;D



Whitenoise said:


> Both actions are equally indefensible, animal abuse is animal abuse, it's all  equally abhorrent :V .



Ehh, I wouldn't say it's that simple.

Shades of Grey, etc.


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## BlackDragonAlpha (Jan 9, 2009)

Aden said:


> Arm thyself with knowledge.
> 
> \And yeah, you're right.



*jawdrop*

My God. Can't believe someone would actually do that. 
But I heard in some rural towns that the teens there fuck chickens. X_X


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## SnowFox (Jan 9, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Both actions are equally indefensible, animal abuse is animal abuse, it's all  equally abhorrent :V .



I'm not trying to defend dog fuckers, but I would say throwing a dog off a cliff is worse than some girl letting her dog fuck her.

It looks like the puppy in that video was already dead anyway, but that's still rather sick.

EDIT: YAY my 600th post, and it mentioned dog fucking :?


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## -Lucario- (Jan 9, 2009)

Sherbniz said:


> Now now, no need to be so uncourtly.
> 
> At least she didn't throw her dogs off a cliff.


 
Well he did say he tripped. *Btw the video was fake*


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## Gavrill (Jan 9, 2009)

Haha, oh wow

This thread has delivered the lulz.


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## Trpdwarf (Jan 9, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> I'm not trying to defend dog fuckers, but I would say throwing a dog off a cliff is worse than some girl letting her dog fuck her.
> 
> It looks like the puppy in that video was already dead anyway, but that's still rather sick.
> 
> EDIT: YAY my 600th post, and it mentioned dog fucking :?



Both can lead to animal death. One from a meet up with gravity, and the other from having to be put down due to intense psychological instability from being used that way, due to dominance issues, severe aggression and so forth.

There is no fucking gray area. No pun intended. Although I am pretty certain the video of that dog if I have the right one in mind...being thrown off a cliff was shown to be fake.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 10, 2009)

I am sad to see Java go. I don't want to add to the drama, but I just want to put in a few words. I am a zoophile, which means I am attracted to dogs, and dogs only. I don't have sex with them at this point because the one I live with is not interested and I respect this. But, I have never been attracted to humans and am not compatible in a physical or romantic sense. Some people are attracted to animals and it is a natural thing for them to mate together. 

I noticed all the bestiality-bashing on this thread and I just want to defend my side. I'd like you all to open your hearts and be more understanding of other's lifestyles. I don't understand how someone can think furries are hot, but not think real life animals are sexy. But, they do and I respect this. 

If having sex with an animal is animal abuse, then what about all the millions upon millions of animals that live in awful conditions and are slaughtered for food and leather? Why do people not think twice about what they eat and wear and the pain that they caused by buying them, yet want people in jail for making love to an animal they care deeply about? I can't even bring myself to eat meat or use animal products, so I know I have a conscience and am not an animal abuser. 

I hope you will understand that zoophiles are not animal abusers. There are instances where animals are raped or only used because they were convenient at the time--and I am against this. Animal abuse should never be tolerated, but I want to help you understand that sex with animals is not necessarily abuse. But, it should not be done by someone who doesn't truly love an animal. 

I hope I haven't made anyone upset by what I have typed. I am sincere and hope that if we have any disagreements that we can work them out calmy and friendly. I am open-minded and always willing to listen. I like to be at peace with others and don't like to be mean-spirited. 

But, the point of my short speech is that if in fact Java was outed for having sex with dogs, that maybe we should all be more understanding. Thanks for listening.


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## Cloudchaser (Jan 10, 2009)

Attorney At Lawl said:


> cool troll bro. I can't imagine any other reason to post that video on a furry website in a thread about something completely unrelated.
> 
> Besides, it was proven to be fake somewhere, but I don't remember where.



[sarcasm] It isn't fake!  That's just what the pro-Bush/Iraq War peoplewant you to think!  It's a conspiracy!  And lack of proof that it doesn't exist doesn't matter!  That's proves that the conspiracy is supressing evidence of it's own existance! [/sarcasm]


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## PriestRevan (Jan 10, 2009)

Bitch got caught. 

That's awesome. Hope she yiffs in IRL.



			
				 SquiggleDog said:
			
		

> I am a zoophile, which means I am attracted to dogs, and dogs only


 
Lol, gross.


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## Rifter (Jan 10, 2009)

Squiggle Dog said:


> If having sex with an animal is animal abuse, then what about all the millions upon millions of animals that live in awful conditions and are slaughtered for food and leather? Why do people not think twice about what they eat and wear and the pain that they caused by buying them, yet want people in jail for making love to an animal they care deeply about?



Simple enough. People don't need to screw animals to live, but they do need to eat. Animals have to be moved through the system quickly and cheaply to keep supply up and prices down. Most people realize this and what it entails for the animals they eat, and they're okay with it. Even if you disagree with this, you can't just say "Yeah, well lots of people do (x) so that makes it okay for me to do (y)."

Taking an animal into your home and expecting it to understand human notions of love and lust is a different thing entirely. Many zoophiles (Java, for instance) seemingly have no insight whatsoever into the way the canine mind works, expecting them to function as a human lover would. This isn't healthy for the dog, and it often leads to aggression issues that end up getting the dog kicked out. Then there are those zoophiles who simply don't care about about their animals.

Good on you for not molesting your dog, but don't expect to find much in the way of understanding here.


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## Gavrill (Jan 10, 2009)

Lol zoofags


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## PriestRevan (Jan 10, 2009)

Rifter said:


> Simple enough. *People don't need to screw animals to live, but they do need to eat*.


 
And at the same time, people don't need meat. I'd never give up meat myself, but just pointing that out.


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## Gavrill (Jan 10, 2009)

Just to let you guys know, I would eat human flesh if I were hungry and if it was readily available. 

Fuck ethics, gotta live.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 10, 2009)

Shenzi said:


> Just to let you guys know, I would eat human flesh if I were hungry and if it was readily available.
> 
> Fuck ethics, gotta live.


 
Freshly-scraped fetus with a side salad. 

Yum.


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## Rifter (Jan 10, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> And at the same time, people don't need meat. I'd never give up meat myself, but just pointing that out.



Meat satisfies a lot of nutritional needs that are difficult (not impossible) to satisfy with other foods. In the end, it's just easier and probably more cost effective to munch on a steak every now and again. I'd also wager that your argument only applies on an individual level. If every person on Earth lived off of plant matter, we'd probably see massive food shortages and widespread nutritional deficiencies in poorer areas.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 10, 2009)

Rifter said:


> Meat satisfies a lot of nutritional needs that are difficult (not impossible) to satisfy with other foods. In the end, it's just easier and probably more cost effective to munch on a steak every now and again. I'd also wager that your argument only applies on an individual level. *If every person on Earth lived off of plant matter, we'd probably see massive food shortages and widespread nutritional deficiencies in poorer areas.*


 
We already have massive food shortages. The eating of vegee's might effect this in a negative way... but I wouldn't know. 

Also, some people do pretty well in life without meat...


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## Gavrill (Jan 10, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> Freshly-scraped fetus with a side salad.
> 
> Yum.


I was thinking more along the lines of thigh meat with potatoes. It probably has a chemical taste to the meat though. But yeah, a fetus would be more tender and less artificial-tasting. Sides for fetus would include red potatoes and/or roasted garlic.


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## Rifter (Jan 10, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> We already have massive food shortages. The eating of vegee's might effect this in a negative way... but I wouldn't know.
> 
> Also, some people do pretty well in life without meat...



The US has a comfortable excess of food production, as do many other countries. The ones that _are_ suffering from shortages would only be in deeper without meat to rely on. Your second point is valid if the person in question has access to a wide variety of vegetables, nuts and fruits, but not so much if options are limited. It's true that there are rural populations across the world who live off things like roots or whatever local crop is easiest to grow, but their lifespans tend to be drastically shorter than those of vegetarians in the first world.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 10, 2009)

Rifter said:


> *The US has a comfortable excess of food production, as do many other countries. The ones that are suffering from shortages would only be in deeper without meat to rely on.*


 
Most of those countries that are suffereing from food shortages already don't have meat available. Many poor African peoples do not have access to meat, for their live stock usually dies, is traded, or doesn't exist. 

The fact is, many, many people across the world, including thousands if not millions in the U.S., suffer from starvation. It's very common in the world.


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## Rifter (Jan 10, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> Most of those countries that are suffereing from food shortages already don't have meat available. Many poor African peoples do not have access to meat, for their live stock usually dies, is traded, or doesn't exist.
> 
> The fact is, many, many people across the world, including thousands if not millions in the U.S., suffer from starvation. It's very common in the world.



Not going to dispute the fact that starvation is a problem, but I don't think that speaks to the necessity of meat in the global diet. It's one of the vital differences between the diets of extremely unhealthy third world countries like those in Africa and those that are somewhat better off. I'm going to leave it at that, I think I've derailed the thread enough.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 10, 2009)

Rifter said:


> Not going to dispute the fact that starvation is a problem, but I don't think that speaks to the necessity of meat in the global diet. It's one of the vital differences between the *diets of extremely unhealthy third world countries like those in Africa and those that are somewhat better off.* I'm going to leave it at that, I think I've derailed the thread enough.


 
Oh yes, those poor Africans are much more unhealthy than the 500 lbs obese people in America.

...


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## .Ein. (Jan 10, 2009)

Like any of the rest of us are any less of a sick fuck than she was. e_e


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## MayDay (Jan 10, 2009)

.Ein. said:


> Like any of the rest of us are any less of a sick fuck than she was. e_e



At least we didn't screw dogs. damn...I thought it was a joke that artist screwed dogs at first but...damn!

And in response to squiggledog, zoophilia is wrong on multiple levels...the first being an animal does not have the ability to consent to sexual acts  and that would mean it's animal abuse. The second being it's an ANIMAL.
 We can love them and respect them but going to the extent of sexual intercourse crosses the line of moral obligations.


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## Sherbniz (Jan 10, 2009)

I can imagine a lot of zoophile persons justify their actions by saying that their pets are enjoying the _treatment_. However it seems that ultimately, the effect isn't a positive one.

Like giving a pack of cigarettes to a chimapnzee - he might enjoy them, but that monkey is gonna be really messed up.

I guess it depends on the viewpoint on which is a more worthwhile life, a short one made up out of a bunch chemically/sexually forced highpoints, or an overall good, albeit maybe mediocre life.

*shrug*


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 10, 2009)

I have read people's replies to my post and I appreciate that the replies were not intentionally rude or hurtful. I know this can be hard when people disagree on things.

I know for myself that meat is not a necessity. I was actually anemic back several years ago when I used to eat meat. Now I can run for miles and miles and not be tired and I lift weights regularly. My job also requires frequent lifting and I am always up to the task. I don't think my health has suffered one bit.

I hope this does not stir the pot much, but my dog is also on a vegan diet. There are a few different brands of this at the larger pet stores and they all meet the nutritional requirements. In fact, they are premium foods and better than the bargain brand stuff by quite a bit. And surprisingly, most of them do not contain products such as soy, wheat, or corn. He is a very healthy dog and when I take him for his annual checkups, the vet says he is in surprisingly good condition. You may not know there are a few dogs who are allergic to meat. The world's oldest dog is a vegetarian! http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0209/articles/020918a.htm

I believe in ethics. I would never do to another creature (or pay to have done) what I wouldn't want to happen to myself. I would never kill an animal (or pay to have one killed) when I have the option not to. And it's interesting that most of people's meat they consume is in the form of fast food, which is very unhealthy.

In other countries MILLIONS of dogs and cats are killed each year for food (about the same number in America too, but mostly because they are euthanised). They justify it by saying they have to eat. So, it's okay to kill a dog if for food, but not okay to having a loving sexual relationship? We may think those countries are backwards, but they feel we are the backward ones because we keep them as pets, while eating cows that countries such as India hold as sacred and only sell them for food/leather after being assured by foreigners that they are going to live their lives out happily on a farm somewhere. 

Everyone has their own views and slants on things, but in the end you have to consider which way causes the least amount of pain and suffering to others. Everyone will be held accountable one day for their actions, whether they were thoughtless or intentional. For me compassion has always come naturally. It seems not so with most.

The most common justification for eating meat that I hear is that it is necessary. But it's not and there are many people who live very healthy lives not eating meat. Most are healthier because they cut out the fast food and decide to start being proactive and work on getting in shape. When I stopped eating meat almost everyone I knew harassed me and warned me that I would become anorexic and end up in the hospital. I actually gained about 15 lbs of muscle weight and ended up with more energy. I also felt like a weight was lifted off of me because eating meat always bothered me to some point, but everyone else did it and that was what was on the table every day.

I believe I can tell when an animal wants to have sex and when he/she doesn't. I know my dog doesn't and thus the reason why I don't have sex with him. I actually don't know of any dogs who want to. But if there was a dog who did want to, then I would have sex with him/her in a heartbeat. I would never force a dog.

I think I treat my dog very well. He is an inside dog, but if I let him outside I know he won't leave the yard and he will come back when I call him. I don't let him wander the neighborhood. He always has food and water and someone to snuggle with if he needs to. I treat him as an equal and he reciprocates by being obedient.

I don't think I have any moral obligation to be with a human. I don't feel like I am a human. I feel like I am a Canine spirit. Humans tend to scare me and I could never feel comfortable enough with one to date one. And I just don't find them attractive in that way. But dogs feel right for me and when I'm with them I feel like I belong. I like to be at peace and it seems so hard to be at peace with humans. It just seems they always have to be causing drama or beating others down. Most of the human couples I see don't even seem like they love each other, and they usually end up having a bunch of kids at an early age that they can't raise properly, and then end up getting divorced.

Stud dogs and bitches are bred all the time and not for their own pleasure, but as a job to produce more puppies (like we need any more with all the homeless pets there already are). They don't get a choice in the matter, to decide whether or not they want to breed. They just get bred. I at least give a dog a choice. They never seem to choose me, but I am hoping that one day one will be interested in me.

Maybe I'm not a zoophile as much as I am a dog spirit trapped in a human body and I just like to be with my own kind (dogs). Though, I am grateful for my human abilities, but I wish I could be a German shepherd dog and retain my human abilities. Maybe have the ability to walk on two legs or four.

I don't think anyone should go out and try bestiality. Stick with what feels right to you. If it seems unnatural then it probably is. There are a few individuals (myself included) who could not possibly love any other species than a dog. I know how to treat them right and where the boundaries lie. Just like some people are gay and are only into the same sex. When they marry someone of the opposite sex to try to cover up feelings and please everyone else, it ends up in disaster when the kids find out daddy doesn't really love mommy and that he was living a lie. I don't believe sexuality is something that can be chosen.

I do think that people should try vegetarianism. There are so many kinds of foods out there (it's hard at first, I know). It's a lot cheaper, too, if you know how to shop well. Pre-made meals and stuff like Gardenburger patties can be a bit expensive (though not much more when compared to meat products). You're all free to do whatever you want, but I would hope you give some thought about where your meals come from if you haven't already.


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## VVhiteWolf (Jan 10, 2009)

^ Wrong on so many levels. I respect your opinions, but it's a frickin dog.....No consent = illegal. And if you're going on about how your dog is treated like a person, then if a person doesn't consent, it's illegal. I eat meat, but I don't eat mammals. I still enjoy poultry and seafood. I know you can live without meat, but it's easy nutrients, and I don't want to have to buy 63 different kinds of vegetables to not wind up a shriveled mess. And by the way, dogs were originally wild, and ATE meat. The only time dogs didn't eat meat when they were wild was if food was scarce and they were on the brink of death, so technically, your dog's vegan diet is wrong. He's healthy on it, but only because domestic dogs have been eating that way for so long.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

Squiggle Dog said:


> Maybe I'm not a zoophile as much as I am a dog spirit trapped in a human body and I just like to be with my own kind (dogs). Though, I am grateful for my human abilities, but I wish I could be a German shepherd dog and retain my human abilities. *Maybe have the ability to walk on two legs or four.*


 
Welcome to the furry fandom. 

Also, zoophilia is gross. 



> I have read people's replies to my post and I appreciate that the replies were not intentionally rude or hurtful.


 
Mine was.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 11, 2009)

Do animals give their consent to be abused all their lives, slaughtered, and then eaten? Do animals give their consent to be bred by breeders? Of course not. Did you ask the animal for his/her consent before you paid the store who paid the butcher to kill the animal? Does any animal give consent before becoming food? Is being killed not a worse fate than sex, especially if the animal is enjoying sex?


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

Squiggle Dog said:


> Do animals give their consent to be abused all their lives, slaughtered, and then eaten? Do animals give their consent to be bred by breeders? Of course not. Did you ask the animal for his/her consent before you paid the store who paid the butcher to kill the animal? Does any animal give consent before becoming food? *Is being killed not a worse fate than sex, especially if the animal is enjoying sex?*


 
Sometimes animals are truly better off dying then the alternative of living in cages and dying.

Besides, you assume the animal enjoys the sex. If you're just raping the creature, then you create dominance issues.

---
As far as eating animals, well, I guess since Gazelle don't give lions their consent to be eaten, we should just stop the lions. 

Animals are eaten. Humans may eat animals different than other animals in the wild, but in the end, certain animals are eaten by other animals. Humans eat cows/chickens. Lions eat gazelle/zebra. Neither have consent to eat the animal, but that's just how the food chain works. Deal with it.
---

Breeding.

Many animals have the natural urge to breed. Humans may do artificial breeding, be even so, if we put a female dog and a male dog in the same room, and the female was in heat (like they usually are even during artificial breeding), then male will breed with her.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 11, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> Welcome to the furry fandom.
> 
> Also, zoophilia is gross.
> 
> ...



I had hoped you did not intentionally mean to be rude. This is poor form. "Gross" is an opinion dependent on personal tastes. I think human sex is gross, but this is my opinion and I accept that others are into humans because it is what is natural to them--not what is natural to me. 

This is an example of what I mean about humans being hurtful towards others. Posting mean-spirited comments rather than discussion and an attempt to understand the other is a basis of the typical human, and unfortunate. But I know not all are this way and all have the choice to choose good actions and behaviors.

But I don't wish to have any bad feelings toward you. I am always willing to forget past squabbles and work toward a more friendly outcome. We share the furry fandom and this is not a common thing in this world (though sites like this can help us to feel not alone by bringing us together). 

We really should all be friends in the furry community and overlook the differences we all have (for we do have many yet), and celebrate our similarities and the common ground we stand upon. When we tear down and hurt others in the fandom we take for granted the fact that we have others who share a same interest as we do. Some of us can remember before we discovered the fandom and how alone we felt, how we wished there were others to understand us. Don't forget. It's a small probability, but you may need my help some day, and you mine.

I didn't mean to gross you out and I am sorry if I did. I value your opinion even if you don't think much of me. I would be lying if I said I didn't care about what you thought.


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## Aden (Jan 11, 2009)

Squiggle Dog said:


> Do animals give their consent to be abused all their lives, slaughtered, and then eaten? Do animals give their consent to be bred by breeders? Of course not. Did you ask the animal for his/her consent before you paid the store who paid the butcher to kill the animal? Does any animal give consent before becoming food? Is being killed not a worse fate than sex, *especially if the animal is enjoying sex?*



You can't know that for sure.

But wait. So you're saying that because people kill cows to eat, having sex with a dog is just a-okay _by comparison_. Great. So your big argument is not that it's not wrong, but HOLY SHIT LOOK OVER THERE SOMETHING ELSE.

Please convince me - no, _prove to me_ that zoophilia is not damaging to the animal. If you provide reliable sources, I'll concede.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

Squiggle Dog said:


> I had hoped you did not intentionally mean to be rude. This is poor form. "Gross" is an opinion dependent on personal tastes. I think human sex is gross, but this is my opinion and I accept that others are into humans because it is what is natural to them--not what is natural to me.
> 
> This is an example of what I mean about humans being hurtful towards others. Posting mean-spirited comments rather than discussion and an attempt to understand the other is a basis of the typical human, and unfortunate. But I know not all are this way and all have the choice to choose good actions and behaviors.
> 
> But I don't wish to have any bad feelings toward you. I am always willing to forget past squabbles and work toward a more friendly outcome. *We share the furry fandom* and this is not a common thing in this world (though sites like this can help us to feel not alone by bringing us together).


 
Oh god. That's gross.



> We really should all be friends in the furry community and overlook the differences we all have (for we do have many yet), and celebrate our similarities and the common ground we stand upon. When we tear down and hurt others in the fandom we take for granted the fact that we have others who share a same interest as we do. Some of us can remember before we discovered the fandom and *how alone we felt, how we wished there were others to understand us*. Don't forget. *It's a small probability, but you may need my help some day, and you mine.*


 
I felt fine before the furry fandom came into my life.

Also, you can keep whatever help you wish to offer.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 11, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> Sometimes animals are truly better off dying then the alternative of living in cages and dying.
> 
> Besides, you assume the animal enjoys the sex. If you're just raping the creature, then you create dominance issues.
> 
> ...



I agree with you that often times it is better for an animal to be put down rather than to live in a cage (I feel better that we agree on something). The solution to this is not keeping dogs from mating and having puppies. Sterilization of the animal is the best way, but I would prefer vasectomies and such that involve tying of tubes, etc. rather than removing sexual organs. I had a vasectomy done on my male dog. He is intact but not capable of reproducing. I think completely removing sexual organs is a bit extreme (who of us here would want this done?).

Animals show their emotions and if one is enjoying sex it is apparent. If you know your animal, you can tell if he/she is uncomfortable, or not into it. I can tell that my dog is not into it. If I could not tell, then would I not be having sex with him anyway and raping him? 

I could eat meat because everyone else seems to be doing it, but I have a choice to choose to spare many animals a cruel life and a dark fate. My conscience will not allow me cause pain to another creature. And having been a vegan for many years now, I have proven to myself that it is a healthy lifestyle and not hard to maintain. I have felt no ill effects. I have had a couple friends try the diet out and they were amazed to see that it's not the unhealthy lifestyle that the world in general makes it out to be.

And I do also agree with you that animals have the natural urge to breed. 

If a dog came up to me and started humping me would I be raping the dog? There are people who rape animals and this causes me much sadness. This is the reason for the anti-zoo laws. They were made with good intentions, but it is not fair to those who truly love their animals. 

I am not attributing human characteristics to dogs. It is their Canine attributes that I love and relate to.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 11, 2009)

I believe this is my final post. I have said all that I needed to say. I wanted to speak up for those who may be afraid to or not know how to say what they feel. A closed mind is a waste of time; an open mind is hard to find.


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## Aden (Jan 11, 2009)

Squiggle Dog said:


> I believe this is my final post. I have said all that I needed to say. I wanted to speak up for those who may be afraid to or not know how to say what they feel. A closed mind is a waste of time; an open mind is hard to find.



You're not even going to respond to my post? All I'm seeing from you here is anectodal evidence and opinions.


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## virus (Jan 11, 2009)

*COUGH* Pets are property of the owner. Therefore, consent is F***ING NULL AND VOID. 

I'm so F***ING sick of that argument. "Animals cannot consent." this load of words stinks more then a rear end of a cow. Animals do not need words to consent as body language is just as if not more direct then words. Human beings had body language before spoken you know and it primarily still is our primary source of communication.

Why the hell do people get so offended by someone screwing an animal, Jesus Christ. Do you even think, take a moment to ponder the logic or try to wonder what it feels like to be in their shoes? Or you rather make a rapid and harsh statement because you can't even make sense of grotesque yet simple logic. There are prehistoric paintings on those cave walls in france of our ancestors screwing animals. Its not so taboo as people think. However since religion came around and shunned it, all heavy zoophiles alike have gotten bad reps.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 11, 2009)

Aden said:


> You're not even going to respond to my post? All I'm seeing from you here is anectodal evidence and opinions.



I'm sorry. I will reply to your post. My answer is that I cannot prove it to you. I don't know how I would. People use their words mostly and animals use their body language. This is what I go by. So far no dog has really shown an interest in me. If I was a rapist, I could pretend they were into me and have sex with them anyway.

I did not intend to make zoophilia look good by comparison to eating meat. But what I did wish to illustrate is that it is hypocritical to condemn zoophiles while biting into a Big Mac and wearing a leather or fur jacket. 

I do agree that things should be judged on their own merits and not by comparison with something more vile.

Sadly, if I do not attain a Canine lover then I will never have a lover. Nothing else fits for me. It is sad for me to think that I would spend the rest of my life without one. But I am happy to have my dog as a friend. Someone I can snuggle with and throw the ball around outside for. A dog is everything I wish I could have in a lover (short of lack of human abilities). They have the personality and the looks that suit me. Humans are fine as friends, but I have never wanted one as more than a friend. It creeps me out to think of it.

I have come to realize--especially lately--that I am somewhat alone in this world and not welcomed much into the furry community. I am used to not belonging, but the pain of being an outcast is not something I grow immune to. 

At this point it is probably not productive to post further as it will inevitably lead to more "fursecution" (or less-humorous equivalent). I don't like arguing and I am tired of disagreeing. I had hoped there may be some others who shared my beliefs, but it appears that once again I am on my own.

I wish you all the best in your lives and hope you will not take for granted the fact that you are all able to openly love those you choose to. I wish I had this same opportunity.


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## Squiggle Dog (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> *COUGH* Pets are property of the owner. Therefore, consent is F***ING NULL AND VOID.
> 
> I'm so F***ING sick of that argument. "Animals cannot consent." this load of words stinks more then a rear end of a cow. Animals do not need words to consent as body language is just as if not more direct then words. Human beings had body language before spoken you know and it primarily still is our primary source of communication.
> 
> Why the hell do people get so offended by someone screwing an animal, Jesus Christ. Do you even think, take a moment to ponder the logic or try to wonder what it feels like to be in their shoes? Or you rather make a rapid and harsh statement because you can't even make sense of grotesque yet simple logic. There are prehistoric paintings on those cave walls in france of our ancestors screwing animals. Its not so taboo as people think. However since religion came around and shunned it, all heavy zoophiles alike have gotten bad reps.



I just read your post. Thanks for the words. I was feeling a bit outnumbered.


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## Whitenoise (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm a murderer for eating meat, Java's a rapist for fucking her dog. Who gives a fuck, not me, but I'm still gonna laugh at her misfortune  .


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## Gavrill (Jan 11, 2009)

This is gross D:


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## uncia (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> *COUGH* Pets are property of the owner. Therefore, consent is F***ING NULL AND VOID.
> 
> I'm so F***ING sick of that argument. "Animals cannot consent." this load of words stinks more then a rear end of a cow. Animals do not need words to consent as body language is just as if not more direct then words. Human beings had body language before spoken you know and it primarily still is our primary source of communication.


"Consent to be eaten" the next stop in the thread?

Not sure where that's going, though, since the OP question was answered (and then some) on the first page...


[edit] OK; two minutes late on that whilst multitasking... _*adds underlining, anyhow*_


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## Aq Bars (Jan 11, 2009)

:shock: This thread went very quickly from an inquiry about a missing artists to a big misguided attempt to justify dog-fucking.

If you're attracted sexually to animals, whoop-dee-doo for you, I guess. But if you can actually justify to yourself that having sex with one is A-okay, then you stay the fuck away from me and my dog. Seriously, who decided this was even up for debate?


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## Whitenoise (Jan 11, 2009)

This is now the thread to refer people too when they try to claim the fandom  isn't full of dog fuckers. Thank you furries  .


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## virus (Jan 11, 2009)

uncia said:


> "Consent to be eaten" the next stop in the thread?
> 
> Not sure where that's going, though, since the OP question was answered (and then some) on the first page...
> 
> ...



There is no consent. Consent is a fairytale word people use to make -human lives- sound more important then they are. Its more or less there to protect "the children"

In black ink, pets, heck anything below human beings not considered able to consent and it also considered property therefore it can be bought and sold legally and when you have ownership to it, you can do ANYTHING you want to it. Regardless. Yes some of those things may be considered evil. But its only recent you've be able to put life insurance on a pet, even so its not that much. When someone intentionally kills a dog/horse/pet as of now its not considered murder rather destruction of property. If that person loved their pet and it gets killed, its just as painful as loosing a human relative. Yet they cannot do anything about it as of now because how the law is written.

I think this is probably the most fucked up piece of paper written. A life is a life regardless the animal. There is only one. They'll save defective babies that die later on in life yet turn their noses with disgust to someone who lost a pet friend.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> *COUGH* Pets are property of the owner. *Therefore, consent is F***ING NULL AND VOID. *
> 
> I'm so F***ING sick of that argument. "Animals cannot consent." this load of words stinks more then a rear end of a cow. *Animals do not need words to consent as body language is just as if not more direct then words*. Human beings had body language before spoken you know and it primarily still is our primary source of communication.


 
So, if an animal shows that it doesn't give consent, we should anyways? 



> Why the hell do people get so offended by someone screwing an animal, Jesus Christ. Do you even think, take a moment to ponder the logic or try to wonder what it feels like to be in their shoes?


 
If I was in their shoes, then I would be trying to hide my feelings about fucking a dog. I'd feel different, and in the end, commit suicide. Better a dead zoophile than a living. 



> Or you rather make a rapid and harsh statement because you can't even make sense of grotesque yet simple logic. There are prehistoric paintings on those cave walls in france of our ancestors screwing animals. Its not so taboo as people think. However since religion came around and shunned it, all heavy zoophiles alike have gotten bad reps.


 
Zoophiles often get pretty bad rep because of the animal abuse that once came from it:

"On the contrary during the spring fertility rites of Babylon, dogs were used for maintaining a constant orgy condition for seven days and nights. The dogs were held down and fellated until erect and then used by both men and women until tiring of it or the abused animal died. If the dog died his penis was then cut off, dried, and then used for further sexual escapades in the fertility festival."

Lovely. 

--

Look, I don't expect a dog to wag it's tail while being butt-fucked.



virus said:


> There is no consent. Consent is a fairytale word people use to make -human lives- sound more important then they are. Its more or less there to protect "the children".


 
So, that means I could walk up to some chick, rape her, and not get in trouble 'cause there is no such thing as consent?


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## Attaman (Jan 11, 2009)

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

Squiggle, you have a lot of things to learn before you can make honest debates.  Right now, your post is a massive attempt at appealing to emotion - big no-no on internet debates.  You also are seemingly putting religion into your post ("One day everyone will be held accountable"), which is another big no-no when trying to argue your point.

Beware with your ethics thing - animals have a very slim ethics system (if any), so just because you give them respect it doesn't mean they'll act likewise.

I had to seriously snip a section on your "I see myself as a canine spirit / I can't stand humans, only canines as partners" bit.  I am not trying to get myself banned for giving someone help online.

About the "Vegetarianism > Omnivorism" comment:  A study has shown greater frequency of _brain shrinkage_ in Vegetarians than people who include meat in their diet.  Not even red meat, just meat in general.  Meat may not be necessary to live, but that's also like saying I don't need any money to live - while true, it makes things worse before better.

I am going to laugh at your "we should all be friends / the better person" comment just like I did the last person to suggest this on the forum (we need a world without intolerance!).  Also, you seem to have a pre-conception that humans are bad and animals good.  Picking and choosing, really.  By the same token, I could provide examples of humanity being this amazing species and the rest of the animal kingdom being this horrible foe besieging the poor species throughout the ages.  Things aren't that much better off in the animal community - instead of being jumped in some dark ally and shot for your wallet, you'll be pounced in some wood and mauled for your kidney.

EDIT:  And by the way, I'm not for bestiality.  To me it's the same as if a moose sprung into your back yard, sodomized your pet [?], then ran off and you went "it's okay, because [?] liked it / [?] gave its consent to be mounted."


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## Grimfang (Jan 11, 2009)

So it's good that we figured out where Java went! Right, guys?


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## virus (Jan 11, 2009)

... You know I was going to defend my standpoint. But its fucking pointless. Because almost everyone here is brainwashed with social/religous logic. That humans > animals rather then seeing humans = animals. 

What would furries fucking humans be? Its *technically* still bestiality because one is NOT human, regardless of consent. So technically anyone gay for furries has a bit of beast in them.


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## virus (Jan 11, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> So, that means I could walk up to some chick, rape her, and not get in trouble 'cause there is no such thing as consent?



Technically YES. you can do that. Its only illegal if you get caught and I don't care how sick it may be. Whats really sick is this game of society we play with paper money and fake lives.


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## Gavrill (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> Technically YES. you can do that. Its only illegal if you get caught and I don't care how sick it may be. Whats really sick is this game of society we play with paper money and fake lives.


You best be joking


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## Aq Bars (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> What would furries fucking humans be? Its *technically* still bestiality because one is NOT human, regardless of consent. So technically anyone gay for furries has a bit of beast in them.


Logic fail. Furry is a fantasy fetish. You can not possibly have sex with a furry. Unless you happen to be having sex with someone in a fursuit, in which case you're actually fucking a human being. Which can give consent.



virus said:


> Technically YES. you can do that. Its only illegal if you get caught and I don't care how sick it may be. Whats really sick is this game of society we play with paper money and fake lives.


Ha ha ha stay the _fuck _away from me, my dog, and my baby cousin.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> ... You know I was going to defend my standpoint. But its fucking pointless. Because almost everyone here is brainwashed with social/religous logic. *That humans > animals rather then seeing humans = animals*.


 
No one said that humans are better than animals (well, maybe someone did). 

The fact is, even if humans=animals doesn't mean humans should run around fucking them. Most species stay to themselves... some humans, for some reason, have the strange urge to fuck something else. 



> *What would furries fucking humans be*? Its *technically* still bestiality because one is NOT human, regardless of consent. So technically anyone gay for furries has a bit of beast in them.


 
Lovely. Lets just use a _totally fictional topic_ to prove a point.



virus said:


> Technically YES. you can do that. Its only illegal if you get caught and I don't care how sick it may be. Whats really sick is this game of society we play with paper money and fake lives.


 
Of course it's illegal. Just 'cause your not caught doesn't mean it's not illegal. 

The fact is, you can go live your life without money all you want. If you don't have money, that'll keep you from affording the internet.


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## Attaman (Jan 11, 2009)

Heads-up:  Since we're getting a bit off-topic, I've put another thread in Rants / Raves for us.  Link is below:

http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=34548


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## virus (Jan 11, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> The fact is, even if humans=animals doesn't mean humans should run around fucking them. Most species stay to themselves... some humans, for some reason, have the strange urge to fuck something else.



Tell that to dolphins, tell that to most of our primate cousins. Tell that to most equines and cervines. Most of them go outside the species barrier.

Dolphins have been documented raping.


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## Gavrill (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> Tell that to dolphins, tell that to most of our primate cousins. Tell that to most equines and cervines. Most of them go outside the species barrier.
> 
> Dolphins have been documented raping.


Does that make it okay? Nooouuuuu.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

virus said:


> Tell that to dolphins, tell that to most of our primate cousins. Tell that to most equines and cervines.* Most* of them go outside the species barrier.
> 
> Dolphins have been documented raping.


 


> *Most *species stay to themselves


 

Please prove the "most" part in your post. I can *possibly* agree to some doing it, but "most" is a bit of stretch, don't ya think?


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## Giorgio Gabriel (Jan 11, 2009)

Aq Bars said:


> Logic fail. Furry is a fantasy fetish. You can not possibly have sex with a furry. Unless you happen to be having sex with someone in a fursuit, in which case you're actually fucking a human being. Which can give consent.




That doesn't rule out the fact that a human having sex with a furry would still be bestiality due to the whole interspecies thing.


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## Gavrill (Jan 11, 2009)

Giorgio Gabriel said:


> That doesn't rule out the fact that a human having sex with a furry would still be bestiality due to the whole interspecies thing.


Moot point, furries don't exist. Depending on how much acid you're tripping on.


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## PriestRevan (Jan 11, 2009)

Giorgio Gabriel said:


> That doesn't rule out the fact that a human having sex with a furry would still be bestiality due to the whole interspecies thing.


 
Bestiality is having sex with an animal.

A furry is a form of an animal... but still has human characteristics. At that point, it becomes questionable on the extreme of it being bestiality.

The difference between a furry and a dog is that a furry can verbally give consent.


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## uncia (Jan 11, 2009)

Grimfang said:


> So it's good that we figured out where Java went! Right, guys?


Yep...


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## yak (Jan 11, 2009)

Law, morality, whatever; time advances but nothing really changes. 
People still act out on their desires regardless of all that. 

Humanity has been doing things like this for forever by now. The only thing that differs with time is how this is perceived by the society, which in turn defines how it is being carried out; openly or behind closed doors.

It is human nature. 

Unfortunate souls are that get exposed engaging in the desire shunned by the society. And it doesn't even have to be sexual or anything; wise people that were interested in herbal medicine got burned in middle ages as Witches.

For a nuisance like this that doesn't affect anyone but the person involved, the society can scar for life or even completely ruin one's personality.
It's a shame.


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## yak (Jan 11, 2009)

Oh duh, thread's closed already :/


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