# Any other therians on here?



## AmbrosiaWolf (Apr 11, 2014)

I myself am a wolf/cat poly morph therian. I'm just curious as to if we have any others on here.


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## DeCatt (Apr 11, 2014)

I am an armchair/fire engine poly morph therian! Welcome!


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## Eggdodger (Apr 11, 2014)

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Not on these forums.

EDIT: You might try another place for therian interaction, like a therian forum? I don't know, people just don't see this as any more than a hobby here on FAF. We're filthy casuals.


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## AmbrosiaWolf (Apr 11, 2014)

I'm actually a part of a therian forum. I was just curious if there were any therian on here, that's all.


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## Kitsune Cross (Apr 11, 2014)

I'm a human/human mix but I can also turn into a human if I concentrete enough


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## Mr. Sparta (Apr 11, 2014)

This place has too much sanity for therians.


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## Troj (Apr 11, 2014)

FYI, the Anthropomorphic Research Team *is* looking for therians to interview. Please contact:

https://sites.google.com/site/anthropomorphicresearch/


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## Kosdu (Apr 11, 2014)

Sorry, only old school therians.

No mixes, dragons, otherkin.... etc.


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## Antronach (Apr 11, 2014)

I never understood why therians would pick nonexistant and/or hybrid animals. It just seems like you took something someone has a deep connection too and decided "That sounds like fun!" and did whatever. Like it's some hardcore furry club and not a spiritual thing.


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## DeCatt (Apr 11, 2014)

Spoiler: Therians and otherkin aren't really animals in human bodies. They are humans in human bodies.


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## Kosdu (Apr 12, 2014)

DeCatt said:


> Spoiler: Therians and otherkin aren't really animals in human bodies. They are humans in human bodies.



You know we old school therians, it is more of a past life and a journey to reconnect with that, and discover who you are.

There is a big difference between a journey to understand who you are, and thinking you were literally born as an animal in a human body.


I don't hate folks like otherkin, but to me they do not understand what they speak of..... They hide in a fantasy, as do many. It is their choice.


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## Mr. Sparta (Apr 12, 2014)

Antronach said:


> I never understood why therians would pick nonexistant and/or hybrid animals. It just seems like you took something someone has a deep connection too and decided "That sounds like fun!" and did whatever. Like it's some hardcore furry club and not a spiritual thing.



Reminds me of my cringy werewolf phase when I was 13...


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## Joey (Apr 12, 2014)

Damn. I seriously NEVER got the whole otherkin thing. Unless you're some weird angsty teen going through a phase, I can't see why anyone would think that way unless they've got some sort of mental disorder.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 12, 2014)

Alex The Lemur said:


> Damn. I seriously NEVER got the whole otherkin thing. Unless you're some weird angsty teen going through a phase, I can't see why anyone would think that way unless they've got some sort of mental disorder.



It's a form of escapism for loser's with shitty lives.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 12, 2014)

Alex The Lemur said:
			
		

> Damn. I seriously NEVER got the whole otherkin thing. Unless you're some weird angsty teen going through a phase, I can't see why anyone would think that way unless they've got some sort of mental disorder.






			
				PastryOfApathy said:
			
		

> It's a form of escapism for loser's with shitty lives.



I'm starting to get offended by this. Damn, you guys are brutal.


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## Joey (Apr 12, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> I'm starting to get offended by this. Damn, you guys are brutal.



Honey, I'm working 39 hours this week with a nasty ass head cold because I know how to be an adult. Do I sound like someone who's interested in therianism?


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 12, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> I'm starting to get offended by this. Damn, you guys are brutal.[/COLOR]



The truth isn't always pretty.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 12, 2014)

What offends me is not that you look down on otherkin, but that you speak as though you're presenting cold, hard facts when they're actually just opinions.
Now, if presented as an *opinion*, I would have no reason to be upset -- that's your personal viewpoint, and I respect that.


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## Joey (Apr 12, 2014)

I'm not even speaking down on them, I'm just pointing out that it's utter nonsense and a complete waste of time. But then again, that's how every atheist/christian debate starts online (and those go nowhere) so I should probably refrain from commenting further on the matter.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 12, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> What offends me is not that you look down on otherkin, but that you speak as though you're presenting cold, hard facts when they're actually just opinions.
> Now, if presented as an *opinion*, I would have no reason to be upset -- that's your personal viewpoint, and I respect that.



The difference is that the majority of the time it _is_ escapism, they'll even tell you so if you prod them enough. That's a fact.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 12, 2014)

Regardless of what it is -- escapism, a spiritual journey, lucid dreaming gone mad, etc. -- there really is no way to prove it one way or the other unless people find a way to invade each others' subconscious.

And since that's never gonna happen, I guess this discussion has reached an impasse. Best drop the matter instead of banging our heads against the walls the other has put up.


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## Student (Apr 12, 2014)

Alex The Lemur said:


> I'm not even speaking down on them, I'm just pointing out that it's utter nonsense and a complete waste of time...


 
Well so is drawing anthropomorphic creatures and attending furcons. But it is fun for us, so we do it. It is productive to take a good long look at yourself and what you do for leisure before criticizing other people for what they do for fun or to cope with the world.



PastryOfApathy said:


> The difference is that the majority of the time it is escapism, they'll even tell you so if you prod them enough. That's a fact.


 
Life is harder for some people then it is for others. Very few people can live with reality all of the time. Most others need an escape from time to time. Every time you look down at your smartphone out of boredom and derp around with it, that is escapism. Every time you watch a television show or read a book, youâ€™re escaping this world for an imaginary one. When you fantasize about the future or reminisce about the past, that is escaping the present moment. Unless you are some kind of enlightened being who lives entirely in the present moment, with no need to be entertained, you engage in escapism.

The pot calls the kettle black. Yes therianism is escapism, and one might argue that it is a much more intense form of escapism then what I have cited above â€“ one that may even be maladaptive or socially obnoxious. But that can be said about ANY form of escapism if it is taken too far.  By no means exclusive to therianism.

So why shit all over a newcomer and make him feel unwelcome like this is some exclusive upper class gentlemanâ€™s club? Exactly what about his personal leisure habits do _you_ find so threatening?


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## Troj (Apr 12, 2014)

I would say that one pet peeve or beef I have around otherkinism and/or therianism is when people compare either with being transgender, and THEN use that comparison to reject BOTH out of hand, i.e., "People can't turn into foxes, so therefore, the guy who says he feels like a woman is also a liar or a nutjob!" or "If we start giving 'rights' to the trannies, THEN we'll have to give the time of day to those whackjobs who think they're dragons, wolves, or Harry Potter."

As a staunch advocate of LGBT rights, it drives me right up the wall.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 12, 2014)

Student said:


> Life is harder for some people then it is for others. Very few people can live with reality all of the time. Most others need an escape from time to time. Every time you look down at your smartphone out of boredom and derp around with it, that is escapism. Every time you watch a television show or read a book, youâ€™re escaping this world for an imaginary one. When you fantasize about the future or reminisce about the past, that is escaping the present moment. Unless you are some kind of enlightened being who lives entirely in the present moment, with no need to be entertained, you engage in escapism.
> 
> The pot calls the kettle black. Yes therianism is escapism, and one might argue that it is a much more intense form of escapism then what I have cited above â€“ one that may even be maladaptive or socially obnoxious. But that can be said about ANY form of escapism if it is taken too far.  By no means exclusive to therianism.


Escapism for normal is watching a movie. Escapism for otherkin is pretending you're a trans-ethnic werewolf, letting it take over life and acting like an obnoxious cunt. Otherkin escapism is a lot different. 



Student said:


> So why shit all over a newcomer and make him feel unwelcome like this is some exclusive upper class gentlemanâ€™s club? Exactly what about his personal leisure habits do _you_ find so threatening?


lol


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## Mr. Sparta (Apr 12, 2014)

Maybe we can make a therian fantasy through acid...


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## TreacleFox (Apr 12, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> It's a form of escapism for loser's with shitty lives.



bait


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 12, 2014)

TreacleFox said:


> bait



its not gr8 b8 if its true m8, but i mean no h8


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## KyryK (Apr 12, 2014)

I was going to make a thread on this but i may as well just ask here. What exactly is a therian and how do they differ from otherkin?


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## Student (Apr 12, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Escapism for normal is watching a movie. Escapism for otherkin is pretending you're a trans-ethnic werewolf, letting it take over life and acting like an obnoxious cunt. Otherkin escapism is a lot different.



Way to completely miss the point of my second argument. Yes, therianism/otherkin is escapism. But letting it take over your life is not exclusive, unique, or essential to it - that can happen in the context of ANY interest. 

I don't find your sarcastic hipsterism impressive at all. In my eyes you're just a neurotic quivering child, incapable of sincerity as a result of all the self-inflicted narcissistic damage that has accumulated over the years of your small life, burying all that under an edgy and derisive exterior. That is obnoxious escapism.


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## Kosdu (Apr 12, 2014)

TheKingOfTheCats said:


> I was going to make a thread on this but i may as well just ask here. What exactly is a therian and how do they differ from otherkin?



There's more old, old school theriantrophy which I outlined on the first page, and then the newer stuff with kinda blurs the line between the two.

We therians also tend to devote our lives to helping others.


@ Pastry

Would you like some ice with that burn?


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## KyryK (Apr 12, 2014)

Kosdu said:


> There's more old, old school theriantrophy which I outlined on the first page, and then the newer stuff with kinda blurs the line between the two.
> 
> We therians also tend to devote our lives to helping others.
> 
> ...



I probably should have made it clear that i have no idea what an otherkin is either.


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## Copycat (Apr 12, 2014)

I mean hell, if that's what somebody wants to do then be my guest.

If it's your business, it's your business. I don't know any so I can't really speak from experience or anything. I mean i personally think it's stupid but compared to a lot of the shit I do, I shouldn't be talking. 

Whatever keeps someone content and alive, go for it. I have my own means of escapism and that's kept me living for long enough. It's not my place to judge what makes other people happy, no matter how stupid it looks in my eyes. 


These are just my requirements for healthy escapism (a WIP):
1. Does not cause harm to you or others
2. Does not dominate your life
3. Does not lessen your quality of life
4. You are able to separate it and reality when necessary
5. You're aware and prepared that not everyone would care or understand
6. You shower on a regular basis


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## Copycat (Apr 12, 2014)

TheKingOfTheCats said:


> I probably should have made it clear that i have no idea what an otherkin is either.




Go on tumblr and search "otherkin" and you'll regret it


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 12, 2014)

Student said:


> sarcastic hipsterism



Well that's a new one.


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## Kosdu (Apr 12, 2014)

TheKingOfTheCats said:


> I probably should have made it clear that i have no idea what an otherkin is either.



Being born into the wrong body, sometimes with fictional creatures. That is what otherkin are to my knowledge.


I only tend to be wary of these things because when I was young and naÃ¯ve and depressed, my best friend got me believing some crazy ass stuff, it turns out he was schizophrenic. I also was superstitious at the time, believed in demons and what not.


Now, I'm therian, and very pragmatic and grounded in reality. 
That is not unhealthy escapism to me, and to me it is not escapism at all but it would be an unpleasent topic to argue.

I've noticed that it seems a good deal of the therians I know have some knowledge of wicca or used to be wiccan.

I respect other's beliefs, as chances are most see some of the picture, but I will not believe them myself.


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## Copycat (Apr 12, 2014)

Troj said:


> I would say that one pet peeve or beef I have around otherkinism and/or therianism is when people compare either with being transgender, and THEN use that comparison to reject BOTH out of hand, i.e., "People can't turn into foxes, so therefore, the guy who says he feels like a woman is also a liar or a nutjob!" or "If we start giving 'rights' to the trannies, THEN we'll have to give the time of day to those whackjobs who think they're dragons, wolves, or Harry Potter."
> 
> As a staunch advocate of LGBT rights, it drives me right up the wall.




Yes, I agree completely. Like, people get disowned every day for coming out as transgender, but I can't say the same for someone coming out as "vampire/wolf hybrid". The two should not be compared at all. 

On the subject, I dislike the whole otherkin pronouns thing going around on tumblr. Then again, it's tumblr, so they ruin things at every fucking chance they get anyways.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 12, 2014)

Student said:


> Way to completely miss the point of my second argument. Yes, therianism/otherkin is escapism. But letting it take over your life is not exclusive, unique, or essential to it - that can happen in the context of ANY interest.
> 
> I don't find your sarcastic hipsterism impressive at all. In my eyes you're just a neurotic quivering child, incapable of sincerity as a result of all the self-inflicted narcissistic damage that has accumulated over the years of your small life, burying all that under an edgy and derisive exterior. That is obnoxious escapism.


Watch out guys, we have a real badass here.

Anyway, my take on otherkin:
There are two types of escapism. There is healthy escapism, which helps you cool off after a long hard day (ie mindless tv, a good book, delicious/orgasmic food, fandom not taken to the extreme). Then there is unhealthy escapism, where you create for yourself a mental complex where you begin to distance yourself from normal society as a defense mechanism because you failed to get past the angst phase of existentialism. It is here you see hardcore fandom lifestylers, tumblr tulpa people, new age weirdos, and otherkin.
Despite what some may read on the iternet, there are no such thing as dragons or elves. Pretending you are one once in a while at a con is fun as hell. Belief you are one 24-7 is running away from the hard parts of life instead of confronting and adapting to them. 

In short: healthy escapism is like sleep for the mind. Unhealthy escapism is simply holding yourself back from your full potential as a human being and a member of society.
So don't go around saying that doing stuff like playing board games is the same as believing you are a magic dragon. One is normal, the other needs psychiatric help.


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## Joey (Apr 12, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> Watch out guys, we have a real badass here.
> 
> Anyway, my take on otherkin:
> There are two types of escapism. There is healthy escapism, which helps you cool off after a long hard day (ie mindless tv, a good book, delicious/orgasmic food, fandom not taken to the extreme). Then there is unhealthy escapism, where you create for yourself a mental complex where you begin to distance yourself from normal society as a defense mechanism because you failed to get past the angst phase of existentialism. It is here you see hardcore fandom lifestylers, tumblr tulpa people, new age weirdos, and otherkin.
> ...



This is what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry if it came off as harsh, but I just don't know why people get so butthurt about this.


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## Troj (Apr 12, 2014)

When therianism is employed as a kind of "spiritual metaphor," I guess you could call it, it really isn't all that different from the totemism you see in a number of ancient religions. 

It's when people take it beyond the realm of spirituality and/or metaphor that problems can potentially start to surface, often in the form of "Tumblr-esque" antics and resultant drama.


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## Copycat (Apr 12, 2014)

Troj said:


> When therianism is employed as a kind of "spiritual metaphor," I guess you could call it, it really isn't all that different from the totemism you see in a number of ancient religions.
> 
> It's when people take it beyond the realm of spirituality and/or metaphor that problems can start to surface, often in the form of "Tumblr-esque" antics.



See if I had found out about it anywhere else before I did on tumblr, I would actually be pretty open about it. Thanks to tumblr I just literally cannot take it seriously. But as I said, not my interest, not my business. The pronouns are a bit ridiculous though.


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## Kosdu (Apr 12, 2014)

Copycat said:


> See if I had found out about it anywhere else before I did on tumblr, I would actually be pretty open about it. Thanks to tumblr I just literally cannot take it seriously. But as I said, not my interest, not my business. The pronouns are a bit ridiculous though.



I really don't know what you are referring about with the pronouns.

New age stuff is strange.


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## DeCatt (Apr 12, 2014)

This is how I perceive otherkin
[video=youtube;yF1kYAZn4o8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF1kYAZn4o8#t=45[/video]


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## Troj (Apr 12, 2014)

Shouldn't the proper title be, "Fuck you, I'm a dragon, and I don't care?"

If we turned up the speakers, got the Horntails a decent drummer, and got the kid a proper guitar, you might be able to sign them to Dethklok Records.


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## Copycat (Apr 12, 2014)

Kosdu said:


> I really don't know what you are referring about with the pronouns.
> 
> New age stuff is strange.




Example:

"I am bunny otherkin. My pronouns are bun/buns/bunself." As in some people are treating it like it's a goddamn gender.


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## Kosdu (Apr 12, 2014)

Copycat said:


> Example:
> 
> "I am bunny otherkin. My pronouns are bun/buns/bunself." As in some people are treating it like it's a goddamn gender.



Da fuq?


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## Chiobsidian (Apr 12, 2014)

I agree with what people are saying about Otherkin. I was on a therian forum for a while, and I thought the idea of fictionkin was just nonsense. But I myself am a therian. I also firmly believe in science and anything that can be proven with facts. Can I prove without a shadow of a doubt that in a past life I was a cat? No. Can it even be proven that the atoms that made up said cat are now a part of me? Nope. Is it completely unheard of though? I don't think so. If anyone can bring themselves to believe in a heaven, a hell, reincarnation, or any kind of afterlife, I don't think we should be judged for being therians and having our own beliefs. 

That being said, it is somewhat frustrating to see "otherkin", or therians who claim to be able to physical shift into their animal form. We all know this can't be done, nor can dragons, elves, demons, ect. exist. Logical therianthropy is fine, and honestly can be one of the lesser extreme "religions" or "spirituality". But there are definitely people who take it too far.


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## Eggdodger (Apr 13, 2014)

Chiobsidian said:


> I agree with what people are saying about Otherkin. I was on a therian forum for a while, and I thought the idea of fictionkin was just nonsense. But I myself am a therian. I also firmly believe in science and anything that can be proven with facts. Can I prove without a shadow of a doubt that in a past life I was a cat? No. Can it even be proven that the atoms that made up said cat are now a part of me? Nope. Is it completely unheard of though? I don't think so. If anyone can bring themselves to believe in a heaven, a hell, reincarnation, or any kind of afterlife, I don't think we should be judged for being therians and having our own beliefs.
> 
> That being said, it is somewhat frustrating to see "otherkin", or therians who claim to be able to physical shift into their animal form. We all know this can't be done, nor can dragons, elves, demons, ect. exist. Logical therianthropy is fine, and honestly can be one of the lesser extreme "religions" or "spirituality". But there are definitely people who take it too far.



Taking what you said into account, will we be seeing a Church of Therianism in the coming years?


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## Kosdu (Apr 13, 2014)

Eggdodger said:


> Taking what you said into account, will we be seeing a Church of Therianism in the coming years?



Although we tend to be drawn together, it is a personal thing.

We do good for others, help them be better, that is the closest we have to religion.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 13, 2014)

I believe I should make a few clarifications with my particular case of otherkin:

1. It does not interfere with my normal life in any way. I understand that it has no effect on me from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed.
2. There is a VERY clear distinction between the man and beast. I know very well that they are NOT the same, and have no influence on each other.
3. Aside from inspiring a few poems and short stories, I refuse to let this have any leverage in my life.
4. I knew that there would be people that bashed me for this, and I was prepared for that. But I refuse to give them a fight, as that'll just go nowhere.
5. This is not a fallback from reality or means of escape for me; I have no reason for it to be. It's just an interesting diversion from the norm -- no more, no less.

I hope I've gotten my point across. This is my viewpoint on my situation. I don't intend for it to be a means of self-defense, nor do I intend for it to be a retaliation towards opposition. My sole purpose is for others to know where I'm coming from, and if not to accept, then at least to understand.


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## Ozriel (Apr 13, 2014)

Eggdodger said:


> Taking what you said into account, will we be seeing a Church of Therianism in the coming years?



Something like that did exist, and then it turned into a money sex cult.

Also, there are two forms of escapism; the healthy dose that helps you relax and unwind,and one that impairs a person's ability to operate. I have witnessed therein in the latter category who cannot function if you do not acknowledge their escapism habits  to the point on turning into somewhat of a mild case of schizophrenia. Which is very uncomfortable.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 13, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Something like that did exist, and then it turned into a money sex cult.



How utterly shocking.


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## Mr. Sparta (Apr 13, 2014)

Kosdu said:


> I really don't know what you are referring about with the pronouns.



I could see a lot of possibilities with using pronouns to mess with people.


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## Copycat (Apr 13, 2014)

Kosdu said:


> Da fuq?




Yyyyyeaaaaaaahhh.....



Mr. Sparta said:


> I could see a lot of possibilities with using pronouns to mess with people.



On tumblr? I wouldn't be surprised. I did it as a joke one time and people took me seriously, saying I was piÃ±ata/piÃ±atas/piÃ±ataself


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 13, 2014)

Mr. Sparta said:


> I could see a lot of possibilities with using pronouns to mess with people.



That brings up a good question. When dealing with therians should I refer to them as "it" like I would a dog or wolf or something? Since I mean if they're really an animal on the inside shouldn't I treat them as such?


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## Calemeyr (Apr 13, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> I believe I should make a few clarifications with my particular case of otherkin:
> 
> 1. It does not interfere with my normal life in any way. I understand that it has no effect on me from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed.
> 2. There is a VERY clear distinction between the man and beast. I know very well that they are NOT the same, and have no influence on each other.
> ...


Nowhere in this post did you acknowledge dragons are fictional or mythological creations, making it impossible for you to be one. Wolf spirits? Ok, whatever, unfalsifiable, but wolves exist. Dragons? Just no. And why always dragons? Why not a lowly animal? Sounds like compensation for insecurities to me.

If you agree that dragons don't exist and that this isn't anything spiritual, then you are just a furry with a fursona.


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## Antronach (Apr 13, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> That brings up a good question. When dealing with therians should I refer to them as "it" like I would a dog or wolf or something? Since I mean if they're really an animal on the inside shouldn't I treat them as such?


Probably shouldn't, since public fornication's probably against the law.


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## DeCatt (Apr 13, 2014)

Toot toot! I'm riding on the train!

Anyway, if we can forget about therians for a moment, can some dragon or hippogriff or something give me an explanation as to how they can be otherkin without relevant species even existing? What is your reasoning? I don't think "I feel like I am one inside" is in anyway evidence or argument because nobody knows what a dragon feels like because no one has ever asked a real one. 

If a therian felt like shitting on the carpet, pissing on fire hydrants and humping strangers legs then I could accept that as at least a shred of debatable evidence, claiming you are something that does not even exist is just pushing the limits of logical reasoning.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 13, 2014)

Antronach said:


> Probably shouldn't, since public fornication's probably against the law.



Well I mean I don't know about you but I don't fuck dogs in public.


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## Sar (Apr 13, 2014)

I am the entrapped representation of rapid expansion. Literally, I am an explosion in space. I stay closely knitted to the otherkin and therian community. Whilst we don't have the therian in my dimension, there has been a lot of controversy to whether or not I am believed to be a part of otherkin.


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## Antronach (Apr 13, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Well I mean I don't know about you but I don't fuck dogs in public.


Oh shoot I meant that if you treated them like animals, they'd probably find that attractive and start beating off right there.


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## Misomie (Apr 13, 2014)

Antronach said:


> Oh shoot I meant that if you treated them like animals, they'd probably find that attractive and start beating off right there.


That actually sounds pretty hot. Some good foreplay right there. ;D


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## Zan'theros (Apr 14, 2014)

I believe that from now on, I think that all discussions relating to my personal otherkin classification should be dropped. Like I mentioned before, there are walls built up by everyone involved, and attempting to beat down the ideas and convictions behind those walls is like trying to chop down a tree with a spoon.
I won't be swayed. No one else will be swayed. Let's just agree to move on.


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## KyryK (Apr 14, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> I believe that from now on, I think that all discussions relating to my personal otherkin classification should be dropped. Like I mentioned before, there are walls built up by everyone involved, and attempting to beat down the ideas and convictions behind those walls is like trying to chop down a tree with a spoon.
> I won't be swayed. No one else will be swayed. Let's just agree to move on.



I don't think people asking how you know that you have the soul of a dragon despite the fact that dragons only exist in the imagination and thus can't have some form of existential soul consistutes a wall of hostility against otherkinism. I can understand it in a poetic, metaphorical sense but saying that you literally have the soul of something that doesn't exist is a bit baffling, from an outsiders perspective.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Apr 14, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> I won't be swayed. No one else will be swayed. Let's just agree to move on.



And why exactly won't you be swayed?


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## Calemeyr (Apr 14, 2014)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> And why exactly won't you be swayed?


It is impossible to sway people who believe in things that are known to not be true or don't exist. Like flat earthers, crystal healers, or loch ness monter people, they already have a lie firmly implanted in their minds.

If the guy said he was a dinosaur otherkin, I wouldn't give him as much shit. Dinosaurs were real. Dragons (which are a misunderstanding of dinosaur bones combined with fears of early man) aren't.


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## Conker (Apr 14, 2014)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> And why exactly won't you be swayed?


Because FUCK YOU HE'S A DRAGON


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Apr 15, 2014)

Well yeah, but I'd rather hear his explanation.
Assuming this wasn't a "stop pointing out that my beliefs and their justifications are nonsense!" ragequit.


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## DeCatt (Apr 15, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> It is impossible to sway people who believe in things that are known to not be true or don't exist. Like flat earthers, crystal healers, or loch ness monter people, they already have a lie firmly implanted in their minds.
> 
> If the guy said he was a dinosaur otherkin, I wouldn't give him as much shit. Dinosaurs were real. Dragons (which are a misunderstanding of dinosaur bones combined with fears of early man) aren't.



How much cred do I get for being a Demipansexafluid Otherkin Werecorgi?


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 15, 2014)

DeCatt said:


> How much cred do I get for being a Demipansexafluid Otherkin Werecorgi?



None because you're not a Demipansexafluid Otherkin Two-Spirit Werebrontosaurus.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 15, 2014)

DeCatt said:


> How much cred do I get for being a Demipansexafluid Otherkin Werecorgi?


The queen of England mistook you for one of her pets. That's good cred, I'd think.

Note to new age spirit people, if this hasn't happened to you, you aren't trying hard enough. Listen to more Enya while sitting in a circle of quartz crystals and scented candles, and maybe you will become your fursona instead of a neckbeard.


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## DeCatt (Apr 15, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> None because you're not a Demipansexafluid Otherkin Two-Spirit Werebrontosaurus.



CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE BRONTOSAURUS SCUM
I'll have you know that being like 200 meters tall you have a significant height privilege that can be used to severely oppress werecorgis! I feel like I have been raped. Dinoape!


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 15, 2014)

DeCatt said:


> CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE BRONTOSAURUS SCUM
> I'll have you know that being like 200 meters tall you have a significant height privilege that can be used to severely oppress werecorgis! I feel like I have been raped. Dinoape!



GASP! You can't talk about rape like that! Where's your trigger warning!!!


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## Ozriel (Apr 15, 2014)

Fuck you, I'm a Spinosaurus! >:V

Other than that, if you are open with your personal beliefs, be prepared for a ton of skeptics who will ask you questions.


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## Brazen (Apr 15, 2014)

Oh, I'm a trans-pig



In that I prowl the streets at night wearing a cocktail dress and a pig mask, looking for an easy lay


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## Zan'theros (Apr 16, 2014)

Hakar Kerarmor said:
			
		

> Well yeah, but I'd rather hear his explanation.
> Assuming this wasn't a "stop pointing out that my beliefs and their justifications are nonsense!" ragequit.



Look, I know it's absolutely ridiculous, generally speaking, to believe that one has a non-human counterpart in some other realm or dimension. I will admit this.

But there are situations where someone witnesses/experiences something that defies explanation, and they know this. For example, my dad is 100% certain that Santa doesn't exist, but he is unable to explain and cannot deny that one Christmas Eve when he was eleven years old and he looked up at the sky -- and saw nine reindeer pulling a sleigh through the sky. It's the same tale as those that see the Loch Ness Monster, Mothman, the Jersey Devil, and all of that jazz: none of these phenomena should happen, should make sense, but these people will swear otherwise.

Similarly, I understand very clearly that what I experience is typically viewed as a load of bullshit. But I simply cannot deny what I go through, and I cannot explain it away or debunk it by any means. And after trying for several months to discredit this, I've finally given up and accepted that that's what's happening to me, whether anyone likes/believes it or not.


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## Hinalle K. (Apr 16, 2014)

I am. Sometimes I feel like I'm an old man trapped in a young girl's body.

I have to occasionaly dress myself up on nipple-high pants and go around handing out butterscotch candies, all while telling them random stories about how much things were different in my sordid past that they never asked about.

It feels good. I feel like I can be myself in those brief times.


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## DeCatt (Apr 16, 2014)

Hinalle K. said:


> I am. Sometimes I feel like I'm an old man trapped in a young girl's body.
> 
> I have to occasionaly dress myself up on nipple-high pants and go around handing out butterscotch candies, all while telling them random stories about how much things were different in my sordid past that they never asked about.
> 
> It feels good. I feel like I can be myself in those brief times.



Oh good show! Good show!


----------



## Hinalle K. (Apr 16, 2014)

Wait, OP has the soul of a dragon?

Can we call Dovahkiin?!


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## Calemeyr (Apr 16, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> Look, I know it's absolutely ridiculous, generally speaking, to believe that one has a non-human counterpart in some other realm or dimension. I will admit this.
> 
> But there are situations where someone witnesses/experiences something that defies explanation, and they know this. For example, my dad is 100% certain that Santa doesn't exist, but he is unable to explain and cannot deny that one Christmas Eve when he was eleven years old and he looked up at the sky -- and saw nine reindeer pulling a sleigh through the sky. It's the same tale as those that see the Loch Ness Monster, Mothman, the Jersey Devil, and all of that jazz: none of these phenomena should happen, should make sense, but these people will swear otherwise.
> 
> Similarly, I understand very clearly that what I experience is typically viewed as a load of bullshit. But I simply cannot deny what I go through, and I cannot explain it away or debunk it by any means. And after trying for several months to discredit this, I've finally given up and accepted that that's what's happening to me, whether anyone likes/believes it or not.[/COLOR]


I think your dad was a little kid and imagined something when he was really tired. Also, the ninth reindeer, Rudolph, is a fictional character. It would be impossible for him to be there. It would be like if I said I saw Bugs Bunny walking down the street. Impossible.

Typically, when someone experiences something that defies explanation (to them), thy are hallucinatig or have been tricked. Or they are mentally ill/hoaxers. People who say they were abducted by aliens, for instance, typically say things that they don't realize came out of 1950's movies. The anal probe stuff is probably based on homophobia.  

Why a dragon? Why not a marmoset, or an emu? Why not a stick bug? Why is it always the beautiful, powerful animals? It really sounds like you are just doing this because you are insecure about yourself. The number of dragon otherkin is way to high to be some spiritual animal thing. 

Let me ask you a question: if you were born in the time of Tolkien, when dragons were a symbol of evil in popular culture, would you consider yourself a dragon otherkin? Probably not. You are being shaped by popular culture, whether you like it or not.

Last question, is it that you can't debunk the feeling of being a majestic dragon, or is it that you don't want to, since it means you would just go back to being an ordinary human? Embrace your humanity. Face your fears and adapt to them. You don't need to become lost in an escapist fantasy world if you make your real life interesting. Or maybe you're just a boring guy. It still doesn't hurt to try.


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## Ozriel (Apr 16, 2014)

Lets try and keep this discussion ontopic and constructive please.


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Apr 16, 2014)

I recently looked into the whole otherkin/therian idea. 

For me personally, I am a wolf, but not in the real sense. Logically, it's impossible to have the soul of anything not human, you are human. Given the chance I would be a wolf and I feel like a wolf, behave like a wolf, and the 'therian (phantom) limbs' that therians/otherkins say they perceive, as in people feeling as if they have appendages like ears or tails or wings that they do not actually have. But I know all that is because I have a strong imagination, I can control my perception of myself with my mind. So I am a wolf, but I am not *literally* a wolf.

After researching into the ideas of otherkin and therians, I find I'd be best to stick to being a furry, since we're all animal in the imaginary sense despite what they make themselves believe. Furry is the only one that embraces it in the imaginary sense.

I'd have to say though, otherkin makes the least sense! Otherkin's believe they are things like fairies, dragons, angels, gods, stars, robots, characters from tv shows etc. These things don't exist/don't have life to begin with! 

Then the tumblr therians want us to start using special pronouns, like 'fae/faes' or 'bun/buns'...which makes no sense at all! Pronouns denote gender/s or lack of to call attention to an individual, not species! The equivalent would be saying 'dog/dogself' or 'human/humanself'....just...they don't need to be making specialized pronouns it's completely unnecessary @_@

I'd be otherkin/therian if they redefined it as "If I were a ___, I'd be a ___, therefore I will identify as ____" not "I have the soul of ____" or "I was once a ____, so now I'm ____ trapped in a human body". I think it's interesting people define themselves as a mythical creature or an animal, or several. It get's weird when they believe it in the literal sense, because it's not true. I'm not going to hate them for it, though


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## Ozriel (Apr 16, 2014)

Earlier on though, Therianthropy was basically more of a connection (and obessive fan to some degree) to shapeshifting werebeasts than anything relating to species dysphoria. Kind of funny how some teenagers and severe introverts transform a small alt.horror.net thing into a phenomenon of "Who can be the most special because life is meaningless" schtick. 

You have to accept the life you have now, accept who you are, and make the best of it. Nothing will change that.


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Apr 16, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> I think your dad was a little kid and imagined something when he was really tired. Also, the ninth reindeer, Rudolph, is a fictional character. It would be impossible for him to be there. It would be like if I said I saw Bugs Bunny walking down the street. Impossible.
> 
> Typically, when someone experiences something that defies explanation (to them), thy are hallucinatig or have been tricked. Or they are mentally ill/hoaxers. People who say they were abducted by aliens, for instance, typically say things that they don't realize came out of 1950's movies. The anal probe stuff is probably based on homophobia.



There are many things that cause hallucination; disorders, sleeplessness, chemicals, etc. 
Also, the mass hysteria in which people naturally pick up on the things other people call out to perpetuate beliefs in cryptids such a the loch ness monster


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Apr 16, 2014)

TheKingOfTheCats said:


> I was going to make a thread on this but i may as well just ask here. What exactly is a therian and how do they differ from otherkin?



What I found is Otherkin is a larger umbrella, however, otherkin believes that among things like possessing the souls/having been in the past life some sort of animals, otherkin can also be fairies, robots, gods, stars, demons, fictional characters.

Therians tend to be animals only; such as wolves, foxes, cats, etc.


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## Ozriel (Apr 16, 2014)

WolfNightV4X1 said:


> What I found is Otherkin is a larger umbrella, however, otherkin believes that among things like possessing the souls/having been in the past life some sort of animals, otherkin can also be fairies, robots, gods, stars, demons, fictional characters.
> 
> Therians tend to be animals only; such as wolves, foxes, cats, etc.



Funny thing is; that Therians were their our country before a bunch of people claiming to have the souls of animals came into werenation and rummaged it up. Before then, they never claimed to have the soul of anything. Otherkin, however claimed to have the soul of X in Y body. That also included RL animals and Legendary beasts. 

Fictokin. Not even otherkin are crazy enough to believe that. There also have been several accounts that fictokin are mentally and emotionally unstable.

Also please use the multiquote button or edit your OP.


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## Mr. Sparta (Apr 17, 2014)

PokÃ©kin are the best otherkin.

Because who doesn't love their metaphysical fictional character, yet being born far before said character even existed?



> I am also a plant


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## lupinealchemist (Apr 17, 2014)

Some therians tend to live normal lives without their therianthropy getting in the way. Also, hi.


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## Chiobsidian (Apr 17, 2014)

lupinealchemist said:


> Some therians tend to live normal lives without their therianthropy getting in the way. Also, hi.



As I mentioned before, being a therian doesn't have to be an all consuming thing. It can just be a minor belief in life that you have that on occasion you come back to. I'd like to think that most religious folks (exluding the extremists, which I strongly feel are a small percentage of the overall pool of religious people) don't constantly think about their beliefs. But they are there, and can be reflected on on occasion. 

As for an earlier comment on how therians tend to be "cool" animals like wolves, or tigers, I'd just like to add that I myself am a fat housecat therian. Nothing interesting, really.


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## TrishaCat (Apr 18, 2014)

Don't let a lot of the people here get you down dude.

I'm not a therian, and by the looks of it most of the people here aren't either. You might find one or two hiding in the mix though.
I also can't say that I believe people can be something other than human, but I'm not going to tell you you're wrong either.
Just don't let how you feel about yourself harm you in any way.
And as I said, don't let people here get you down, even if they are telling you off. Not everyone here will do that and letting it get to you will only harm you. Stay positive and try not to get offended. I don't agree with people telling you off. Personally I think its kind of mean.

Might I ask you a question though?
What exactly made you decide that you were a therian? (please forgive me if you'd rather not answer this)


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## Zabrina (Apr 18, 2014)

I work with wolf, bear, and owl totem medicines, but I don't think that counts me as Therian. I don't really know anything about this shit.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 18, 2014)

Eh, Would having random skills I never learned but know how to do instinctively count? Like sharpshooting, skiing, first aid, and massage stuff. I just put my hands on said thing/person and bam. I just do. And never wrong.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Apr 19, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> Look, I know it's absolutely ridiculous, generally speaking, to believe that one has a non-human counterpart in some other realm or dimension. I will admit this.
> 
> But there are situations where someone witnesses/experiences something that defies explanation, and they know this. For example, my dad is 100% certain that Santa doesn't exist, but he is unable to explain and cannot deny that one Christmas Eve when he was eleven years old and he looked up at the sky -- and saw nine reindeer pulling a sleigh through the sky. It's the same tale as those that see the Loch Ness Monster, Mothman, the Jersey Devil, and all of that jazz: none of these phenomena should happen, should make sense, but these people will swear otherwise.
> 
> Similarly, I understand very clearly that what I experience is typically viewed as a load of bullshit. But I simply cannot deny what I go through, and I cannot explain it away or debunk it by any means. And after trying for several months to discredit this, I've finally given up and accepted that that's what's happening to me, whether anyone likes/believes it or not.[/COLOR]



Good for you, but that's not what I asked.



Jack Arclight said:


> Eh, Would having random skills I never learned but know how to do instinctively count? Like sharpshooting, skiing, first aid, and massage stuff. I just put my hands on said thing/person and bam. I just do. And never wrong.



Nah, that just means you are the Kwisatz Haderach.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 19, 2014)

I guess there are differences then between therians and otherkin. One seems to be a pre-christian animist religion, the other is new age bullshit for angsty teens who play too much D&D or watch too much animus (rar I'm an Half-Orc Mage-kin, don't mess with me bullies, or I'll use my defintely-not-from-D&D magicks on you!). Fiction kin are the worst. Na'vikin, really? You were born before Cameron had the idea for that movie! Wait...aren't all otherkin fictionkin?

So no problem with therians, unless they add otherkin to the mix and believe they are actually wolves and coyotes in human suits. That's kinda crazy. Spiritual connection is not. Not for me, but maybe for someone else.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 19, 2014)

Calemeyr said:
			
		

> So no problem with therians, unless they add otherkin to the mix and believe they are actually wolves and coyotes in human suits. That's kinda crazy. Spiritual connection is not. Not for me, but maybe for someone else.



What is it gonna take for me to get to you people? I've very clearly said that, in my case, the man and creature are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ENTITIES. I never said that I believed to be the latter in the body of the former.
For me, it's a single soul/spirit establishing a connection between two distinct individuals, allowing them to draw on one anothers' strengths.

Does that _finally _clear things up a little for ya?


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## Calemeyr (Apr 19, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> What is it gonna take for me to get to you people? I've very clearly said that, in my case, the man and creature are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ENTITIES. I never said that I believed to be the latter in the body of the former.
> For me, it's a single soul/spirit establishing a connection between two distinct individuals, allowing them to draw on one anothers' strengths.
> 
> Does that _finally _clear things up a little for ya?


I understand what you say, but not all otherkin say that. Other otherkin (lol) actually say they are dragonborns or elves in human bodies. You do not comprise the whole of the otherkin community. 

What's getting me is the fact that you think that dragon spirits exist. Sure it's fun in mythology and a cultural heritage thing, but actually believing in mythical/fictional creatures being a part of you spiritually is kinda weird. Seeing as they are fictional and all. This would be like me saying I establish a connection with a sergal spirit being somewhere. Sergals don't exist. If you said you have a connection to wolf spirits I'd leave you be. Power to ya. Wolves exist. But dragons don't.

I STILL have yet to see you admit that dragons are fictional creatures, unless you're talking about bearded dragons or komodo dragons or leafy sea dragons etc. But if this is just some symbolical thing, then that's ok. My sergal is also a "symbolical" thing, being a fursona.


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## Benji (Apr 19, 2014)

I really am the spirit of a _cuckoo_ bird trapped in a human body.


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## Brazen (Apr 19, 2014)

Zabrina said:


> I work with wolf, bear, and owl totem medicines




U wot m8?


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## Zan'theros (Apr 20, 2014)

Calemeyr said:
			
		

> I STILL have yet to see you admit that dragons are fictional creatures



In today's world, yes, they are. No dragons currently roam our world.

But I'm certain that they existed -- and were quite widespread -- in the past. Consider the fact that virtually every culture throughout human history has a dragon in its mythology in some form or another.
Now, explain to me how so many different peoples, who had no contact with one another in any way, had faith in the same creatures if they did not exist in some flesh-and-blood form.

The reason I think that you don't see them today is that Nature decided that they no longer had a place on Earth. However, like humans, their spirits remain eternal.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 20, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> In today's world, yes, they are. No dragons currently roam our world.
> 
> But I'm certain that they existed -- and were quite widespread -- in the past. Consider the fact that virtually every culture throughout human history has a dragon in its mythology in some form or another.
> Now, explain to me how so many different peoples, who had no contact with one another in any way, had faith in the same creatures if they did not exist in some flesh-and-blood form.
> ...


There were things called dinosaurs that lived on every continent. People may have found their bones. Crocodiles exist. Pterodactyls existed. Add in some primal fears and you get a dragon. Note that dragons are different in design among different cultures. There is lack of consistency.
Also: explain how such large creatures could fly. They would need like 80 ft wingspans, and it's difficult to get blood pumping to these regions without a larger body. Explain how Eastern dragons can fly without wings! If you say thateastern dragons didn't exist, then your concept that they existed on every continent falls flat. Dragons are physically impossible creatures. And if you say magic, then jesus, did you fail school or something?

Dragons never existed. They are impossible creatures. Dinosaurs did exist.

This is becoming borderline mentally ill. Please don't tell me you don't have children. Raising children to believe in such nonsense is borderline abuse. It would be like telling a child that space aliens exist on Mars and Venus and under the Earth's surface and watch out because they will abduct you. Filling children's minds with such pseudoscientific and new age garbage only leads to a further decline of the intelligence of our species.

A better comparison would be teaching young earth creationism over evolution.

Can a therian in this thread help me out? Do you actually believe you share the soul of an animal? How do I get this guy to no longer think Falcor was real in the past?


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 20, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> In today's world, yes, they are. No dragons currently roam our world. But I'm certain that they existed -- and were quite widespread -- in the past.




Can you give us hard scientific evidence that dragons existed at some point?


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## Calemeyr (Apr 20, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Can you give us hard scientific evidence that dragons existed at some point?


The crystal energy fields/misappropriated Native American rituals/Sedona Vortices/Tumblr told him they are real :V

His "evidence" is common cultural depictions, even though dragons all look different among different cultures. (Early dragons look suspiciously like snakes...). You know what else can be found on all continents? Dinosaur bones.

Nothing personal Zan'theros, but I'm a scientist. I'm sorry if what I say offended you, but I'm being serious. Pseudoscience is a trigger button for me and sets me off on rants. About the children thing, I feel it is wildly irresponsible to teach children such things. Why don't you become a dinosaur therian? At least dinosaurs existed.

The reason there are so few therians on these forums is because the non therians lump them in with otherkin and go apeshit when they see them. Really not fair.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 20, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> The crystal energy fields/misappropriated Native American rituals/Sedona Vortices/Tumblr told him they are real :V
> 
> His "evidence" is common cultural depictions, even though dragons all look different among different cultures. (Early dragons look suspiciously like snakes...). You know what else can be found on all continents? Dinosaur bones.
> 
> ...



Oh I know his evidence is cultural depictions. I'm just saying that if something was allegedly so prevalent and co-existed with humans you would think there would be some kind of evidence. Since I mean if we have evidence of tiny ass organisms from like way before humans, you'd think there would be evidence of giant ass lizards from after that.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 20, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Oh I know his evidence is cultural depictions. I'm just saying that if something was allegedly so prevalent and co-existed with humans you would think there would be some kind of evidence. Since I mean if we have evidence of tiny ass organisms from like way before humans, you'd think there would be evidence of giant ass lizards from after that.


I think he's confused about which giant ass lizards exist.


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## Conker (Apr 20, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> In today's world, yes, they are. No dragons currently roam our world.
> 
> But I'm certain that they existed -- and were quite widespread -- in the past. Consider the fact that virtually every culture throughout human history has a dragon in its mythology in some form or another.
> Now, explain to me how so many different peoples, who had no contact with one another in any way, had faith in the same creatures if they did not exist in some flesh-and-blood form.
> ...


For the same reason every culture has a flood story. Some things are just common. The COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS is the proper term for it, but bugger I don't feel like digging around for more information on it. Been awhile since I had that specific English class. 

Basics are: tropes are universal as are certain story lines. Floods are common enough, and so pretty much every culture has a flood story akin to Noah. 

People are afraid of things, and being eaten is a biggie. Boom. Dragons. Not to mention dinosaur bones and other large lizards that could have contributed to the thing.

I mean yeah, all cultures have some kind of dragon, but the dragons all look different. The basic idea is: big monster that can fly and eat you, but that idea is REALLY basic.


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## lupinealchemist (Apr 20, 2014)

Jack Arclight said:


> Eh, Would having random skills I never learned but know how to do instinctively count? Like sharpshooting, skiing, first aid, and massage stuff. I just put my hands on said thing/person and bam. I just do. And never wrong.


I can perform Reiki to some degree, but I have doubts my wolf theriotype is involved.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 21, 2014)

While you make good points, Calemeyr and Pastry, have you ever stopped to consider those dinosaur bones that fail to receive proper classification/identification, or could be considered 'leftovers' from one type of dino? Who's not to say that these bones COULD be the bones of dragons?

You say you're a scientist, Cal, so you should know very well that a big part of science is keeping an open mind and not saying anything is impossible until you get the opportunity to properly test it, as per the scientific theory. So to instantly discount the existence of dragons without actually testing it would be considered a contradiction of the methodology that you adhere to.


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## Hewge (Apr 21, 2014)

_tl;dr_: Some guy with a scale fetish wants to disregard several hundred years of study, ideology, and any and all people who spent their entire lives researching these sort of things just because he wants to believe flying fat fire lizards existed at some point in time.

It's like religion!

And that's _*okay.*_


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Apr 21, 2014)

So basically a big heaping argument from ignorance.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 21, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> While you make good points, Calemeyr and Pastry, have you ever stopped to consider those dinosaur bones that fail to receive proper classification/identification, or could be considered 'leftovers' from one type of dino? Who's not to say that these bones COULD be the bones of dragons?
> 
> You say you're a scientist, Cal, so you should know very well that a big part of science is keeping an open mind and not saying anything is impossible until you get the opportunity to properly test it, as per the scientific theory. So to instantly discount the existence of dragons without actually testing it would be considered a contradiction of the methodology that you adhere to.


Here's a test: simulations. And based on the dragon's size and shape. they are biomechanically impossible as flying creatures. Never mind that no genus of 6-limbed vertebrates has been found. If you were to tell me that dragons were tiny cat-sized flying creatures, completely unlike all the D&D hocus pocus, then maybe. They would be four-limbed though. But still, the idea that you share the soul with one is also a stretch.
To be honest, you sound like a snake-oil salesman with your quotations about science. Noving is ever proven in science. I can't prove you exist! But probabilistically, evidence supports your existence. But you're going with the argument from igornance. That is pseudoscience. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

To repeat, giant blue-whale sized dragons don't work physically. But if you are cat-sized dragon otherkin, then that's a little better. But why are YOU so certain they exist? Produce a dragon skeleton, please. And mystical anecdotal experiences do not count as evidence. Unless you are considering this a religion. Admit it. This is a faith.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 21, 2014)

Hewge said:


> _tl;dr_: Some guy with a scale fetish wants  to disregard several hundred years of study, ideology, and any and all  people who spent their entire lives researching these sort of things  just because he wants to believe flying fat fire lizards existed at some  point in time.
> 
> It's like religion!
> 
> And that's _*okay.*_



Shh...don't say the r-word. This thread hasn't become a _total _criclejerk yet.


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## lupinealchemist (Apr 21, 2014)

Because of general physics and biology. I think that dragons could only exist in other planes of existence, if there are any. Mainly depends on opinion and faith.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 21, 2014)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Nah, that just means you are the Kwisatz Haderach.


 Sweet.


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## Kitsune Cross (Apr 21, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Shh...don't say the r-word. This thread hasn't become a _total _criclejerk yet.



GOD IS A LIE!

you are welcome.


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## Sar (Apr 21, 2014)

Kitsune Cross said:


> GOD IS A LIE!
> 
> you are welcome.



It's cute when there is a big internet fight over _nothing_, especially in threads about therianthropy of all places.


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## Kitsune Cross (Apr 21, 2014)

Sarukai said:


> It's cute when there is a big internet fight over _nothing_, especially in threads about therianthropy of all places.



They were asking for it


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## Zan'theros (Apr 22, 2014)

lupinealchemist said:
			
		

> I think that dragons could only exist in other planes of existence...



This. This hits the nail on the head.

Remember how I said that they no longer exist in OUR world, that Nature has decided that they no longer have a place HERE. What I say regarding the continuation of the dragon race is its existence in a parallel plane, one that I believe I cross into when I lay my head to rest.
So I guess, technically, it DOES count as a spiritual thing. Which means that science won't be able to provide any assistance on this matter...


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## DeCatt (Apr 22, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> This. This hits the nail on the head.
> 
> Remember how I said that they no longer exist in OUR world, that Nature has decided that they no longer have a place HERE. What I say regarding the continuation of the dragon race is its existence in a parallel plane, one that I believe I cross into when I lay my head to rest.
> So I guess, technically, it DOES count as a spiritual thing. Which means that science won't be able to provide any assistance on this matter...[/COLOR]



Burden of proof is now on you to prove the existence or even the possibility of alternate planes of existence existing. Spoiler: 



Spoiler



You can't.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 22, 2014)

You also can't _disprove_â€‹ it, either. It's a unique paradox, that.


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## Kalmor (Apr 22, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> You also can't _disprove_â€‹ it, either. It's a unique paradox, that.


I could say the same thing about magical pony unicorns, fairies, flying spaghetti monsters and deities (yes I went there). Just because you can't disprove it doesn't make it true. You're moving the goalposts all the time with (i)logical fallacies. Look up Russel's teapot.

ed: Hence why DeCatt said the burden of proof is on you. You can't make an unfalisifible claim and not back it up with cold, hard evidence.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 22, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> You also can't _disprove_â€‹ it, either. It's a unique paradox, that.


You can't prove it either! It must be faith.

Right now, I cannot disprove that you don't exist and are a figment of my imagination. Perhaps all of this is a hallucination.

You really don't know how science works, do you?


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## Ozriel (Apr 22, 2014)

Chiobsidian said:


> As for an earlier comment on how therians tend to be "cool" animals like wolves, or tigers, I'd just like to add that I myself am a fat housecat therian. Nothing interesting, really.



It can be said that the reason why people choose wolves is because of how we as humans romanticize them in lore and mythology, as well a demonizing them as human-eating monsters. That, and humans have had a long established relationship with wolves in the past.


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## Brazen (Apr 22, 2014)

Tell me Zan, do you see there being a large correlation between what you believe and what you *want* to believe? Are you sure you're not suffering from a case of wishful thinking?


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## Kitsune Cross (Apr 22, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> This. This hits the nail on the head.
> 
> Remember how I said that they no longer exist in OUR world, that Nature has decided that they no longer have a place HERE. What I say regarding the continuation of the dragon race is its existence in a parallel plane, one that I believe I cross into when I lay my head to rest.
> So I guess, technically, it DOES count as a spiritual thing. Which means that science won't be able to provide any assistance on this matter...[/COLOR]



They do actually exist in an alternate universe, it's called fiction


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## Conker (Apr 22, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> This. This hits the nail on the head.
> 
> Remember how I said that they no longer exist in OUR world, that Nature has decided that they no longer have a place HERE. What I say regarding the continuation of the dragon race is its existence in a parallel plane, one that I believe I cross into when I lay my head to rest.
> So I guess, technically, it DOES count as a spiritual thing. Which means that science won't be able to provide any assistance on this matter...[/COLOR]


So unless you get into some Dragonlance levels of bullshit, you really can't argue that.

The common dragon we see has six appendages (not counting the tail) and other than insects, nothing else is structured that way. There'd be biological evidence of something even kind of similar if normal evolution applied to them. 

But since they don't exist...

As long as your self aware enough to know that your beliefs are absurd, I have no real problem with it. But going "Well they shifted to another plane" is some low-trope high-fantasy stuff.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 23, 2014)

You know what? I'm not even going to try anymore. Obviously, this is the wrong place for sharing ANYTHING that seems even SLIGHTLY unusual when it comes these types of matters.

If you think this is a rage quit, it's similar: I'm just done with talking to walls.
Immature? Maybe. But obviously, this is all getting nowhere, so I fail to see any benefits of dragging it on any longer if no one's willing to open their minds just a little.


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## Auramaru (Apr 23, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> You know what? I'm not even going to try anymore. Obviously, this is the wrong place for sharing ANYTHING that seems even SLIGHTLY unusual when it comes these types of matters.
> 
> If you think this is a rage quit, it's similar: I'm just done with talking to walls.
> Immature? Maybe. But obviously, this is all getting nowhere, so I fail to see any benefits of dragging it on any longer if no one's willing to open their minds just a little.



This is where one of them says something along the lines of "if you openly express your opinion, expect someone to openly express how wrong your opinion is".

I'm not saying I agree with you Zan, but it sucks to see a fellow dragon feeling shut down/out.

... ...
Other than that: good conversation about Therians, people!  Keep it coming!


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 23, 2014)

Auramaru said:


> I'm not saying I agree with you Zan, but it sucks to see a fellow dragon feeling shut down/out.



lol


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## Kalmor (Apr 23, 2014)

Auramaru said:


> This is where one of them says something along the lines of "if you openly express your opinion, expect someone to openly express how wrong your opinion is".
> 
> I'm not saying I agree with you Zan, but it sucks to see a fellow dragon feeling shut down/out.
> 
> ...


Funnily enough that was exactly what I was going to say next. You've seen these type of debates before I guess.

Look, in the grand scheme of things I don't have all that much against Otherkin, life is too short, but it also sucks to have such... illogical thinking around? Calemeyr is a scientist and he has every right to be pissed off at that because the work he does HAS to involve keeping a rational and logical mind. None of the things Zan said are those two things.

I have nothing against Zan personally and nothing against any of the other otherkin I've met (and some of the I've actually befriended) during my time here and on FA, except for maybe those on the "extreme" end of the scale. I am just really annoyed that some people take pseudoscience seriously and make up their own bits of pseudoscience to convince themselves of something. It's not healthy, in my eyes.


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## VintageLynx (Apr 23, 2014)

I did some research into the existance of dragons at college. To be honest I half hoped to get a few interesting leads but useable information was very hard to find and what there was was not I could use. There were mentions of Dragon sightings in Wales around the turn of the 1900's where they were occasionally seen and described as being the size of a chicken (from old timers) but this was from one source only.

As to being influenced by other creatures the brain is not fully understood. My mum used to be able to remote view - and saw family in other countries doing actions that were later seen to be exactly as described. She also once saw a non-human 'creature' that was aware of being viewed - so that makes me keep an open mind.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 23, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> Funnily enough that was exactly what I was going to say next. You've seen these type of debates before I guess.
> 
> Look, in the grand scheme of things I don't have all that much against Otherkin, life is too short, but it also sucks to have such... illogical thinking around? Calemeyr is a scientist and he has every right to be pissed off at that because the work he does HAS to involve keeping a rational and logical mind. None of the things Zan said are those two things.
> 
> I have nothing against Zan personally and nothing against any of the other otherkin I've met (and some of the I've actually befriended) during my time here and on FA, except for maybe those on the "extreme" end of the scale. I am just really annoyed that some people take pseudoscience seriously and make up their own bits of pseudoscience to convince themselves of something. It's not healthy, in my eyes.



Personally I don't give a shit a shit what someone thinks if it makes them happy and they're not a douche...unless they're therians. Since unless they're like legitimate Native American spiritualists or something always come off as tryhard teenagers that wanna seem like super cool special snowflakes.


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## Brazen (Apr 23, 2014)

"Truth doesn't fear investigation"
-Some neo-Nazi holocaust denier

If you can't defend your beliefs against peer review then you should re-evaluate how tenable they are. Asking questions does not make one closed-minded, quite the contrary.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 23, 2014)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Personally I don't give a shit a shit what someone thinks if it makes them happy and they're not a douche...unless they're therians. Since unless they're like legitimate Native American spiritualists or something always come off as tryhard teenagers that wanna seem like super cool special snowflakes.


Don't forget the teens who get into the stuff to learn magicks to get back at the bullies. "No one will make fun of my cheese/sock smell, my pokemon erotica, and neckbeard anymore!"

Anyway, what got me all up in arms about this whole matter was the fact that the guy felt he had a spiritual connection to animals that are biomechanically impossible. Dragons defy the laws of physics, unless they're the size of birds/housecats. But I'm pretty sure otherkin go for the giant dragon thing. If he had sad stegosaurus, I would have thought him silly, but I wouldn't be bothered by it. Oh, and trying to spin science into something that is faith does not look very good to me. It always comes off as pseudo science. That's just my two cents.


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## VintageLynx (Apr 23, 2014)

I'd like to see if people are still believing the same thing five or ten years from now.


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## Troj (Apr 23, 2014)

Vintage, that would be the test.

I'm also someone who is irked by pseudoscience and swimming against the facts, and who doesn't personally traffic in spirituality and the like.

But, unless a therian or otherkin personally asks me for advice or help, or unless I see that their beliefs or behaviors are really causing harm to themselves and/or others, I don't see the use in arguing or debating, because it's likely to just end in an angry stalemate.


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## Conker (Apr 23, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> You know what? I'm not even going to try anymore. Obviously, this is the wrong place for sharing ANYTHING that seems even SLIGHTLY unusual when it comes these types of matters.
> 
> If you think this is a rage quit, it's similar: I'm just done with talking to walls.
> Immature? Maybe. But obviously, this is all getting nowhere, so I fail to see any benefits of dragging it on any longer if no one's willing to open their minds just a little.


Tell Sturm Brightblade I said hello when you shift into whatever magical plane your dragon self is from.


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## Mr. Sparta (Apr 24, 2014)

VintageLynx said:


> There were mentions of Dragon sightings in Wales around the turn of the 1900's where they were occasionally seen and described as being the size of a chicken (from old timers) but this was from one source only.



I want to see the plane of existence where chicken dragons exist.

Zan, help me here!


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## Zan'theros (Apr 24, 2014)

*sigh*
You all want me to keep posting my thoughts, don't you?

Look, I'm not mad, I'm just tired of trying to debate something that no one's going to at least try to take seriously. I'm not some hopeless teen looking for a way to get back at life, I'm a 24-year-old man that has a steady job and no major worries in my life. What this is for me is an interesting quirk that can teach me a few life lessons, not some super-spiritual journey of the soul or anything like that.

I don't appreciate the sarcastic comments (*cough* Sparta *cough* Conker) and I'm not a fan of the borderline hatred tossed my way. What I would like is for people to just accept that that's what I'm convinced of and that I don't let it gain a single foothold in my life. I don't care what you think, so long as you don't turn that into the hostility that I've been on the receiving end of.


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## Brazen (Apr 24, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> I don't appreciate the sarcastic comments (*cough* Sparta *cough* Conker) and I'm not a fan of the borderline hatred tossed my way. What I would like is for people to just accept that that's what I'm convinced of and that I don't let it gain a single foothold in my life. I don't care what you think, so long as you don't turn that into the hostility that I've been on the receiving end of.



Nobody is saying you can't have a religious belief, we're just taking issue with you trying to give it a basis in science that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


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## VintageLynx (Apr 24, 2014)

It's best not to share such thoughts / beliefs on a public forum (especially one like this dedicated to fantasy characters). You may well be right but without proof it's just like all other umprovables such as chupacabra and nessie - subject to disbelief and ridicule.

But if you are 100% sure you are right then know that even if not in your lifetime the 'facts' will be verified one day.


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## PastryOfApathy (Apr 24, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> *sigh*
> You all want me to keep posting my thoughts, don't you?
> 
> Look, I'm not mad, I'm just tired of trying to debate something that no one's going to at least try to take seriously. I'm not some hopeless teen looking for a way to get back at life, I'm a 24-year-old man that has a steady job and no major worries in my life. What this is for me is an interesting quirk that can teach me a few life lessons, not some super-spiritual journey of the soul or anything like that.
> ...



We're not hating. We're just getting annoyed at you being all pissy and moany when you can't prove Dragons were real.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 24, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> *sigh*
> You all want me to keep posting my thoughts, don't you?
> 
> Look, I'm not mad, I'm just tired of trying to debate something that no one's going to at least try to take seriously. I'm not some hopeless teen looking for a way to get back at life, I'm a 24-year-old man that has a steady job and no major worries in my life. What this is for me is an interesting quirk that can teach me a few life lessons, not some super-spiritual journey of the soul or anything like that.
> ...


We don't hate you. We're annoyed that you are putting somethig that is essentially faith in an almost scientific context. The "can't be sure they don't exist is science" thing just got on my nerves.
Creationists also get on my nerves. It's that current evidence kinda rejects their ideas. Same with dragons being real, scientific creatures. They can't fly. Now a spiritual faith thing, that's ok, do your thing. New age pseudoscience masquerading under a misunderstanding of quantum mechanics? That annoys me.

Lastly, since you say your dragon self is part of yourself and is not anything spiritual, how can it teach you life lessons? Does it talk to you? Or is this talking to yourself? You must go beyond yourself to learn new things. There isn't new knowledge in yourself, unless you create it. You must interact wrh others to determine the context of this new knowledge. Your spouse/partner and your work is the best place to look for life lessons.


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## Kitsune Cross (Apr 24, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> We don't hate you. We're annoyed that you are putting somethig that is essentially faith in an almost scientific context. The "can't be sure they don't exist is science" thing just got on my nerves.
> Creationists also get on my nerves. It's that current evidence kinda rejects their ideas. Same with dragons being real, scientific creatures. They can't fly. Now a spiritual faith thing, that's ok, do your thing. New age pseudoscience masquerading under a misunderstanding of quantum mechanics? That annoys me.
> 
> Lastly, since you say your dragon self is part of yourself and is not anything spiritual, how can it teach you life lessons? Does it talk to you? Or is this talking to yourself? You must go beyond yourself to learn new things. There isn't new knowledge in yourself, unless you create it. You must interact wrh others to determine the context of this new knowledge. Your spouse/partner and your work is the best place to look for life lessons.



I find this untrue, you can actually learn a lot by just thinking to yourself or meditating, though I agree that "his dragon side" is totally irrelevant to this


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## Calemeyr (Apr 24, 2014)

Kitsune Cross said:


> I find this untrue, you can actually learn a lot by just thinking to yourself or meditating, though I agree that "his dragon side" is totally irrelevant to this


Well, yes, you can definitely learn about yourself through introspection, but I thought he was talking about life in society.


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## Conker (Apr 24, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> *sigh*
> You all want me to keep posting my thoughts, don't you?
> 
> Look, I'm not mad, I'm just tired of trying to debate something that no one's going to at least try to take seriously. I'm not some hopeless teen looking for a way to get back at life, I'm a 24-year-old man that has a steady job and no major worries in my life. What this is for me is an interesting quirk that can teach me a few life lessons, not some super-spiritual journey of the soul or anything like that.
> ...


You spouted off the most well-used fallacies when arguing science and then told us to open our minds when we called you out. 

It's too tiresome to warrant anything close to hatred.


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## lupinealchemist (Apr 24, 2014)

While I sympathize with your frustration, Zan, when it comes to spirituality and pseudoscience, trying to convince others of your experiences true or not will often lead to ridicule and butthurt. On public forums like these, it's best to keep most of this stuff to yourself.


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## Zan'theros (Apr 25, 2014)

If people should keep all of this stuff to themselves, then why the hell does this thread even exist in the first place?


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## VintageLynx (Apr 25, 2014)

Zan'theros said:


> If people should keep all of this stuff to themselves, then why the hell does this thread even exist in the first place?



People want to share with others what they believe but sometimes its best to keep it personal. Share with friends, sure - but sharing here is like telling a bunch of strangers. He'll, it's perfect blog material actually.


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## fel-greywolf (May 14, 2014)

I'm therian. It's part of my spirituality. It's my personal feeling and belief. I'm comfortable admitting it, and comfortable holding a non biased discussion about it. 

Figured i would place something in the thread, though the post may be less than pertinent to the current discussion.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (May 15, 2014)

How would you define a non-biased discussion?


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## Ozriel (May 15, 2014)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> How would you define a non-biased discussion?



Addressing it without bashing, I suppose. It's also hard to be non-biased about it when a person claims to have the soul of a dragon/fox/phoenix/penis/whatchamacallit.




fel-greywolf said:


> I'm therian. It's part of my spirituality. It's my personal feeling and belief. I'm comfortable admitting it, and comfortable holding a non biased discussion about it.
> 
> Figured i would place something in the thread, though the post may be less than pertinent to the current discussion.



Being comfortable with your spirituality is fine. However, if you use it due to the fact that you cannot accept yourself as a person, or refuse to accept the life you live and make improvements towards your whole well-being, then that's when it can be viewed as an issue.


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## Phoenix-Kat (May 15, 2014)

I always felt I was born the wrong species. I was never sure what species exactly, just that I was never supposed to be a human.


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## chesse20 (May 15, 2014)

Therianiam isn't real it's ppl trying to grab attention just like those non binary gender people


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## Kosdu (May 15, 2014)

chesse20 said:


> Therianiam isn't real it's ppl trying to grab attention just like those non binary gender people



1/10, try harder.


@Phoenix-Kat
I never experienced this, but still encourage you to explore through meditation.


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## chesse20 (May 15, 2014)

Kosdu said:


> 1/10, try harder.
> 
> 
> @Phoenix-Kat
> I never experienced this, but still encourage you to explore through meditation.


yeah right LOL 
im as serious as serious Sam right now
therians r frickin dumb teenagers and even dumber college students trying to be cool because their lame nerds who want to be accepted and have attention just like most non binary gender people ( idk what the fuk is wrong with shmorky and renard queenston, I guess the stereotype of good artists being crazy is real)

eother that or their conked up in the brain or something (maybe there is such a thing as too much weed)


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## Olimpt (May 15, 2014)

chesse20 said:


> yeah right LOL
> im as serious as serious Sam right now
> therians r frickin dumb teenagers and even dumber college students trying to be cool because their lame nerds who want to be accepted and have attention just like most non binary gender people ( idk what the fuk is wrong with shmorky and renard queenston, I guess the stereotype of good artists being crazy is real)
> 
> eother that or their conked up in the brain or something (maybe there is such a thing as too much weed)



Alright, lets suppose that being a 'therian' is something in someone's head, or made up. You don't need to be bashing someone for what they believe in or think. Its like running around screaming in a kids face that santa isnt real. (I'm using this as a example and in no way trying to compare)


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## PastryOfApathy (May 15, 2014)

chesse20 said:


> yeah right LOL
> im as serious as serious Sam right now
> therians r frickin dumb teenagers and even dumber college students trying to be cool because their lame nerds who want to be accepted and have attention just like most non binary gender people ( idk what the fuk is wrong with shmorky and renard queenston, I guess the stereotype of good artists being crazy is real)
> 
> eother that or their conked up in the brain or something (maybe there is such a thing as too much weed)



Hey man, I'm a non-binary genderfluid, demisexual otherkin. Stop cyberbullying me me you meanie troll.


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## Kitsune Cross (May 15, 2014)

chesse20 said:


> yeah right LOL
> im as serious as serious Sam right now
> therians r frickin dumb teenagers and even dumber college students trying to be cool because their lame nerds who want to be accepted and have attention just like most non binary gender people ( idk what the fuk is wrong with shmorky and renard queenston, I guess the stereotype of good artists being crazy is real)
> 
> eother that or their conked up in the brain or something (maybe there is such a thing as too much weed)



HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE YOU ARE REAL? HUH?


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## FangWarrior (May 15, 2014)

Kalmor said:


> Funnily enough that was exactly what I was going to say next. You've seen these type of debates before I guess.
> 
> Look, in the grand scheme of things I don't have all that much against Otherkin, life is too short, but it also sucks to have such... illogical thinking around? Calemeyr is a scientist and he has every right to be pissed off at that because the work he does HAS to involve keeping a rational and logical mind. None of the things Zan said are those two things.
> 
> I have nothing against Zan personally and nothing against any of the other otherkin I've met (and some of the I've actually befriended) during my time here and on FA, except for maybe those on the "extreme" end of the scale. I am just really annoyed that some people take pseudoscience seriously and make up their own bits of pseudoscience to convince themselves of something. It's not healthy, in my eyes.


Ironically enough, that's exactly what I was gonna say... Three dragons in a row.


Zan may be otherkin, but let's keep in mind that he has feelings, just like any other soul, even if IT IS a dragon soul.

Even if I don't agree with him.


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## Batty Krueger (May 16, 2014)

Im more of a lifestyler. And not the creepy kind.


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## KivuliPanthera (May 17, 2014)




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## KivuliPanthera (May 17, 2014)

Hello I'm a cat/wolf poly morph as well nice to know their are others out there.


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## Alexxx-Returns (May 17, 2014)

We were given a lecture about theories/developing theories last year, and we were taught something along the lines of "a theory cannot be accepted if it is in no way falsifiable." Until reading the stuff said above by Zan, I never truly understood what this meant.

I'm not trying to attack Zan or other therians/otherkin - while I don't understand what it's like at all, I do feel that AS LONG AS it's not hurting anyone, they should be able to do/believe what makes them happy.


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## Harbinger (May 17, 2014)

Kitsune Cross said:


> HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE YOU ARE REAL? HUH?



But how can furries be real, if our eyes aren't...


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## Sunkmanitu El Yote (Jun 2, 2014)

Therian here, that used to get on A.H.W.W back in the mid to late 90's so I guess that just makes me old LOL.


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## Ozriel (Jun 2, 2014)

Sunkmanitu El Yote said:


> Therian here, that used to get on A.H.W.W back in the mid to late 90's so I guess that just makes me old LOL.



Yep, oldbie.


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