# Items in Pause makes games too easy?



## Rilvor (May 24, 2008)

I got to thinking, often when in a heated combat situation one can pause the game and access their items menu, giving them access to restoration items, weapon/armor switches, etc.

Does anyone else thinks this may be a contributing factor to games being too easy?
Not much of a challenge to escape dieing if you can pause it and chug potions/heal yourself to max.

I kind of miss the days of harder video games. Like the old games. I want games that kick my ass on NORMAL difficulty, not on the 7th option "SUPER-SPECIAL-AWESOME-VERY-GODLY-HARD"

Think about it, games were harder in the old days. How many of you have actually beaten Legend of Zelda 2, or gotten past the 4th stage in Sinistar, or even beaten Super Mario Bros without using warps?


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## Ty Vulpine (May 24, 2008)

Yes, never played, and yes.


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## OnyxVulpine (May 24, 2008)

Ninja Gaiden :O

Devil May Cry 3 :O

I don't have much hard games.. I think the "hardest" one I have recently is Bioshock..


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## Ty Vulpine (May 24, 2008)

Hardest for me was GoldenEye 007. The AI was unbelievably difficult on some stages in 00 Agent difficulty, the worst being Control Room and Antenna.


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## E-mannor (May 24, 2008)

i always love a good challenge, but i hate saying a game is "hard" 

challenging=good
tricky=fun
difficult=enjoyable

i would advise playing n_v14 for the computer, (it runs on a mac so i like it)

that game is really tricky, some levels are unbelievably difficult, and over all it is really challenging. i would definitely suggest checking it out, (and its totally free, no strings attached ^_^)


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## LizardKing (May 24, 2008)

It depends on the game. With something like NWN or UFO, you can pause as much as you like, but only to plan, you can't use things while paused. But yes, any game that lets you pause and use items is very open to abuse. The same could be said of unlimited saves at any point you desire.


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## E-mannor (May 24, 2008)

@ onyxvulpine

 i did like bioshock, but i thought that because there were places to save every 50 feet the difficulty was just thrown out the window.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 24, 2008)

E-mannor said:


> @ onyxvulpine
> 
> i did like bioshock, but i thought that because there were places to save every 50 feet the difficulty was just thrown out the window.



That's what I like about GoldenEye. No save points, no health packs, and if you forget even one mission objective (or fail it) you fail the whole mission. No exceptions.


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## E-mannor (May 24, 2008)

Yeah GoldenEye has been one of my favorites because its a shooter that obeys the natural laws of reality

although i also like halo because it gives reality a firm smack in the face ^_^

i guess it really depends on what you want form any given game.


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## M. LeRenard (May 24, 2008)

> Yeah GoldenEye has been one of my favorites because its a shooter that obeys the natural laws of reality


Gee... I don't know about this.  In several levels, you can win just by firing a loud gun in a room and then taking out the entire encampment of soldiers as they come piling into the doorway.  But it is still an awesome game.  The Aztec and Egyptian temples are too tough for me to beat on 00 without cheating.  The rest of them I've somehow managed.  Some levels on Perfect Dark are like that, too (Carrington Institute, anyone?), but I've beaten all of those except for War! on perfect agent, so it must not be as hard.

The old games required a lot more practice, that's for certain.  Things like Battletoads demanded absolute perfection in order to beat the levels.  Then there's the game Time Slip for the SNES that I haven't been able to beat even by cheating like crazy with save states, because I end up getting overconfident and losing my whole ability to win by saving in a spot I shouldn't have.  That, and the final boss has something close to unlimited health and makes enemies come after you that fill up the entire screen with bullets.
There's hard, and then there's impossible.  Impossible tends to be less fun.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 24, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Gee... I don't know about this.  In several levels, you can win just by firing a loud gun in a room and then taking out the entire encampment of soldiers as they come piling into the doorway.  But it is still an awesome game.  The Aztec and Egyptian temples are too tough for me to beat on 00 without cheating.  The rest of them I've somehow managed.  Some levels on Perfect Dark are like that, too (Carrington Institute, anyone?), but I've beaten all of those except for War! on perfect agent, so it must not be as hard.
> 
> The old games required a lot more practice, that's for certain.  Things like Battletoads demanded absolute perfection in order to beat the levels.  Then there's the game Time Slip for the SNES that I haven't been able to beat even by cheating like crazy with save states, because I end up getting overconfident and losing my whole ability to win by saving in a spot I shouldn't have.  That, and the final boss has something close to unlimited health and makes enemies come after you that fill up the entire screen with bullets.
> There's hard, and then there's impossible.  Impossible tends to be less fun.



Carrington Institute took me a few tries on Perfect Agent before I beat it. (I could usually get to the room where you get the "secret weapon" then it usually goes downhill from there.)
War! on Perfect Agent I could never beat either. Aztec and Egyptian in GoldenEye I actually beat on 00 Agent before beating Control Room on 00 Agent. (Egyptian was almost too easy)


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## Hybrid Project Alpha (May 24, 2008)

Old games had inventory in the pause menu too o.o The only difference id healing items were much more scarce, so you had to save them until you absolutely needed them


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## Armaetus (May 24, 2008)

STALKER is sort of like that, you can choose between opening up your inventory and using bandage or healthkit or you simply use a hotkey that uses in the heat of battle.


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## Bokracroc (May 24, 2008)

JA2, 1.13v mod, Highest Difficulty, Iron Man mode (Can't save in battles), Drassen Mine defence.


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## Armaetus (May 25, 2008)

Oblivion Lost mod makes Stalker a bit harder with many cut things readded, random blowouts that deal health or radiation damage, and weapons are lethal as usual.


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## E-mannor (May 25, 2008)

well if difficulty is you only want, i would suggest any MMO, no matter if its an FPS, RPG, or RTS there is always going to be some asian who is better than you.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (May 25, 2008)

I'm personally a happy medium type of player. I like challenge in my games but I hate an overly difficult game, partly because when it's too difficult I tend the benefits of beating the extremely difficult game are low because I'm the only one that plays games to the extent that I do and partly because the game mechanically can't keep up with what my mind and my desire to do what I want to do. I want to launch off of wall B, attack X, and kick boss N in the head but I can't because the camera angle is typically poor, the controls aren't precise enough and the game translation is inefficient.


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## Adelio Altomar (May 25, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> I got to thinking, often when in a heated combat situation one can pause the game and access their items menu, giving them access to restoration items, weapon/armor switches, etc.
> 
> Does anyone else thinks this may be a contributing factor to games being too easy?
> Not much of a challenge to escape dieing if you can pause it and chug potions/heal yourself to max.
> ...


 
Why do you think I don't play video games anymore? The new ones are waaaay too easy and get boring after the first go-around.


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## Dyluck (May 25, 2008)

I can agree with this. You should try the Tales of series. You access your items through menus, but there's a delay between the times that you can use them, because the battles all take place in real time.

Plus it's just a fucking awesome series.



OnyxVulpine said:


> I don't have much hard games.. I think the "hardest" one I have recently is Bioshock..



Bioshock was the easiest FPS that I've ever played in my life. Played it through on Hard mode and didn't die once.


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## Stratelier (May 25, 2008)

I have to agree with OP sentiments.  Many games use the Pause menu to provide additional controls for gameplay (weapon selection, etc.) but for games that involve fast reflexes and avoiding damage (contrary to the average RPG where you just take damage & heal up later)

Mega Man (original series) - You can find spare Energy tanks in various levels.  Play them again, stock up and save for final bosses.  But they don't carry over in passwords.

Mega Man X series - Not quite as gamebreaking.  You were limited to four Sub-Tanks, and you had to fill them manually by acquiring extra energy capsules to store them with.

Okami - Most restorative and protective items can be bought at shops.  Upgradable maximum HP and extra lives, food to fill the Astral Pouch with can be found anywhere.  But for the most part, unless you're going after some of the hardcore optional battles, you didn't need them.

Devil May Cry 1 - Strict limits on how many healing items you could buy (though you could still find more), plus each healing item used penalizes your end-of-level ranking.  And the bosses were just plain tough, too.



> How many of you have actually beaten Legend of Zelda 2?


...and on the original NES?  I have, but it took a damn long time (countless tries) to actually navigate that final temple, beat the boss, and STILL have enough HP/lives left to last that final battle against Dark Link.


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## DarkTalbain64 (May 25, 2008)

Hmm, don't remember if you could pause and use items in Shinobi but limited health items and constantly sapping away my health? Thanks...


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## Ty Vulpine (May 25, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> ...and on the original NES?  I have, but it took a damn long time (countless tries) to actually navigate that final temple, beat the boss, and STILL have enough HP/lives left to last that final battle against Dark Link.



Did you ever use the little corner cheat to beat Dark Link?


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## Ty Vulpine (May 25, 2008)

Hybrid Project Alpha said:


> Old games had inventory in the pause menu too o.o The only difference id healing items were much more scarce, so you had to save them until you absolutely needed them



Especially on the Second Quest of Legend of Zelda.


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## kitetsu (May 25, 2008)

Frankly i don't give much of a shit about this issue, because I'm usually too busy trying to familiarize myself with the basic controls. No pause during item select? Okay, find an alternative, etc etc.


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## net-cat (May 25, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> I got to thinking, often when in a heated combat situation one can pause the game and access their items menu, giving them access to restoration items, weapon/armor switches, etc.


Yes, it does make games easy. I don't really care, though. Some games (Okami) were pathetically easy and were still tons of fun to play through.




Rilvor said:


> beaten Super Mario Bros without using warps?


Yes, I have. Although my Mario skills pale in comparison to my dad's. He's done Mario, Mario second quest (where all the goombas are replaced with buzzy beetles and are faster) and he's gone through Mario Lost Levels without warps. All the way to D-4. In fact, I proably still have his save games on my SMAS cartridge...


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## KazukiFerret (May 25, 2008)

Well, sometimes it does. I never really minded it in the early Resident Evil games because they were slow paced anyway, but some faster paced games it's really annoying and it breaks the flow. Here's how I view game difficulties

Easy games=games I play to mow down hoards of my enemies to blow off steam
Challenging = enjoyable
Hard = grand sense of accomplishment when I beat them
Ninja Gaiden = I actually had a relatively easy time beating this one, don't know why everyone complains about it
Black = Spawn of Satan
Evil Dead: Hail to the King = I haven't managed to kill the first fucking enemy yet and the controls are making shotgun mouthwash look rather inviting right now


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## Stratelier (May 25, 2008)

> Some games (Okami) were pathetically easy and were still tons of fun to play through.


I remember beating Ninetails with only 6 HP, Yami with only seven (both with just one Astral Pouch and no items).  Except for the scattered Sun Fragments I never upgraded my HP at all.



TyVulpine said:


> Did you ever use the little corner cheat to beat Dark Link?


Probably.  I remember casting Fire, then crouching at the edge and slashing like a maniac.
And it's not a 'cheat', it's an exploit.

On the GCN re-release I discovered Dark Link has a blind-spot during his jump and exploited that (though it still took several tries).


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## Hybrid Project Alpha (May 25, 2008)

Man I remember beating Lost Levels in one sitting with no warps. Good times.


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## An Sionnach Rua (May 25, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> You should try the Tales of series....
> 
> Plus it's just a fucking awesome series.


I played Tales of Symphonia on the old GC... _Fuck yeah._


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## Manek Iridius (May 25, 2008)

We're talking about Tales, MMOs, and Zeldas?

Ninja Gaiden 1-3. Try that on for size.


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## Hybrid Project Alpha (May 25, 2008)

RPGs aren't hard.


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## An Sionnach Rua (May 25, 2008)

RPGs are time-consuming, usually. But there can be some skill involved, especially if you don't have the patience to powerlevel.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (May 25, 2008)

Manek Iridius said:


> We're talking about Tales, MMOs, and Zeldas?
> 
> Ninja Gaiden 1-3. Try that on for size.



F-ZERO GX!


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## M. LeRenard (May 25, 2008)

> RPGs aren't hard.


Most of the time, no, but how many of the old ones have you played?  Little to no direction for your questing, enemies that evolve at a rate much faster than you unless you stop and grind for twelve hours, then a final dungeon with no save points where the enemies can instantly kill you and you only have 6 spell slots available to raise your dead, and then only to one hit point.  That can get complicated.  If you can find a ROM of it that works, try playing Mother; it will kick your ass, and you will cry.
But SNES onward they've been pretty easy.  I remember thinking once that beating Lavos in Chrono Trigger was tough, but nowdays I can waste the loser without even having to use a healing spell.  I must have been dumb.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 25, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Most of the time, no, but how many of the old ones have you played?  Little to no direction for your questing, enemies that evolve at a rate much faster than you unless you stop and grind for twelve hours, then a final dungeon with no save points where the enemies can instantly kill you and you only have 6 spell slots available to raise your dead, and then only to one hit point.  That can get complicated.  If you can find a ROM of it that works, try playing Mother; it will kick your ass, and you will cry.
> But SNES onward they've been pretty easy.  I remember thinking once that beating Lavos in Chrono Trigger was tough, but nowdays I can waste the loser without even having to use a healing spell.  I must have been dumb.



Shining Force II, my all-time favorite RPG.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (May 25, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> Shining Force II, my all-time favorite RPG.



Damnright.jpg.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 25, 2008)

Bowtoid_Obelisk said:


> Damnright.jpg.



Now if only Sega would release it on the Wii VC...


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## LizardKing (May 25, 2008)

Bubble Bobble on the NES was interesting, since it was impossible to beat without a friend.  IIRC, level 99 had a door that couldn't be reached without one activating it, and another going through it. Also, if one player was dead when you killed the final boss, you got the bad ending. Though I usually did it by myself by saving one life and resurrecting the second player just before killing the boss.


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## Kirbizard (May 25, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> Think about it, games were harder in the old days. How many of you have actually beaten Legend of Zelda 2, or gotten past the 4th stage in Sinistar, or even beaten Super Mario Bros without using warps?



True, I've never finished Zelda 2. Embarrassingly, I can't pass the second dungeon's boss. <(v_v)>
It's the only Zelda game, bar CD-i, that I'm yet to finish. I'd better get a move on. <(>_o)>

However, Super Mario Bros was pretty easy... Warps or not. <(<_<)>


I don't think items in the pause menu are the fault of games being easier. They should just beef up the rest of the game in order to compensate. <(^-^)>


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## Ty Vulpine (May 25, 2008)

Kirbizard said:


> True, I've never finished Zelda 2. Embarrassingly, I can't pass the second dungeon's boss. <(v_v)>
> It's the only Zelda game, bar CD-i, that I'm yet to finish. I'd better get a move on. <(>_o)>
> 
> However, Super Mario Bros was pretty easy... Warps or not. <(<_<)>
> ...



The original LoZ did that. Huge world, and the levels scattered around, each bigger and more complex than the last, especially Death Mountain.


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## Rilvor (May 25, 2008)

Bowtoid_Obelisk said:


> F-ZERO GX!



Did someone say F-Zero GX?

Obligatory Megacock post (Also; It took forever, and I RAGE'd a lot, but I eventually beat that game. Hardest motherfucking game I ever played)


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## Hybrid Project Alpha (May 26, 2008)

I loved F-Zero GX. I completely mastered it, but I had nobody to play it with because I was  "that guy"


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## Stratelier (May 26, 2008)

> (Also; It took forever, and I RAGE'd a lot, but I eventually beat [F-Zero GX]. Hardest motherfucking game I ever played)



Take Mario Kart Wii for a spin.  Grand Prix, 150cc class, AI's are downright nasty, you get hit by 2+ items in a row on frequent occasions.  I've never heard critics use the term "gang-rape" in the context of a racing game before.

I did eventually earn gold trophies in all cups (including 150cc and Mirror), but . . . one of my Remotes isn't working as well as it used to.  The Wii Wheel has a few scars, but it's just a plastic shell, nothing to break....


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## Ty Vulpine (May 26, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Take Mario Kart Wii for a spin.  Grand Prix, 150cc class, AI's are downright nasty, you get hit by 2+ items in a row on frequent occasions.  I've never heard critics use the term "gang-rape" in the context of a racing game before.



I couldn't agree more. And often, after the double-hit, a rider either using a Star or the Mushroom runs into you either flattening you or knocking off the track into water/lava/thin air/etc...


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (May 26, 2008)

Hybrid Project Alpha said:


> I loved F-Zero GX. I completely mastered it, but I had nobody to play it with because I was  "that guy"





Rilvor said:


> Did someone say F-Zero GX?
> 
> Obligatory Megacock post (Also; It took forever, and I RAGE'd a lot, but I eventually beat that game. Hardest motherfucking game I ever played)
> 
> ...


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## Stratelier (May 26, 2008)

> And often, after the double-hit, a rider either using a Star or the Mushroom runs into you either flattening you or knocking off the track into water/lava/thin air/etc...


Yup, those AI's are really something; I've seen them sandbag to avoid getting caught in the blast radius of a spiny shell.  I've had a lot of disasters in MKW . . . one of my favorites was on Moonview Highway.  Spiny-shelled dead center of the street + run over by a semi-truck + blown up by a Bob-omb car = ten second loss.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 26, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Yup, those AI's are really something; I've seen them sandbag to avoid getting caught in the blast radius of a spiny shell.  I've had a lot of disasters in MKW . . . one of my favorites was on Moonview Highway.  Spiny-shelled dead center of the street + run over by a semi-truck + blown up by a Bob-omb car = ten second loss.



It is possible to avoid the Blue Spike Shell, but only one of two ways:
1. Have a mushroom and time it so that right before the explosion, use the mushroom and you'll dodge it (takes perfect timing, I've done it once)
2. Using a cannon or long-range shot like in DK's Mountain or Rainbow Road.


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## Rilvor (May 26, 2008)

Unless you've played F-Zero GX you cannot even imagine the horrors that game unleashes upon you. It is the most hated game on /v/ for a reason.


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## Kirbizard (May 26, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> Unless you've played F-Zero GX you cannot even imagine the horrors that game unleashes upon you. It is the most hated game on /v/ for a reason.



Expert mode is a bitch to complete. <(>_o)>
I'm still no closer to unlocking Master level. <(T_T)>


At least Story Mode was easy enough. <(^-^)>


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## LordWibble (May 30, 2008)

I never found DMC3 to be as hard as most people alleged it to be. The idea of pause-item-use isn't really a problem, but then again, I am of the belief that if you play a game through to the end and never die once, it's just the right difficulty.


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## JAK3ST3RB (Jun 2, 2008)

thats why i play call of duty 4 on hardened or veteran, all the other difficulty's are shit.


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## KazukiFerret (Jun 3, 2008)

I got ahold of F-Zero GX and am yet to decide if it's a game or the percusor to BLACK as Spawn of Satan in 'playable' format. The disk is set to be target practice for my AK along with Evil Dead: Hail to the King


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## Bokracroc (Jun 3, 2008)

Operation Flashpoint: Resistance on Veteran. That's hard, oh gawd it's hard.
Suck it down you pussies, war is hell.


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## Rilvor (Jun 3, 2008)

As hard as all those other things are, Sinistar is harder.

That game kicks my ass every time....


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## Ty Vulpine (Jun 3, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> As hard as all those other things are, Sinistar is harder.
> 
> That game kicks my ass every time....



GoldenEye 007 on 00 Agent. Especially levels like Caverns or Cradle.


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## Bokracroc (Jun 4, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> As hard as all those other things are, Sinistar is harder.
> 
> That game kicks my ass every time....



Leading a team of 7 soldiers against 3 T72's and a BMP full of enemy soldiers with you in an open field and you only have 4 rockets and 1 launcher?
Not only do you have to take care of yourself, but you also have to take care of those 7 other people. Because if you don't it's only going to get harder and harder as you slowly lose your man-power.
And even then with all of your planing and skill, luck still plays a major part in it. It only takes 1 or 2 shots to drop someone and one of those many bullets can hit you (And you only have one live and no quicksaves).


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## Rilvor (Jun 4, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> Leading a team of 7 soldiers against 3 T72's and a BMP full of enemy soldiers with you in an open field and you only have 4 rockets and 1 launcher?
> Not only do you have to take care of yourself, but you also have to take care of those 7 other people. Because if you don't it's only going to get harder and harder as you slowly lose your man-power.
> And even then with all of your planing and skill, luck still plays a major part in it. It only takes 1 or 2 shots to drop someone and one of those many bullets can hit you (And you only have one live and no quicksaves).



It's you in only the second level of Sinistar. ALL of your enemies are faster than you, and Sinistar is even faster than them. You constantly have 4 Warrior ships trying to shoot you down while you desperately try to get 13 sinibombs before you hear BEWARE I LIVE!

But it's not over yet. Even if you get 13 or more, even if you manage to not lose all your ships from the warriors, now you must face Sinistar and all the Warrior ships at the same time, and they'll move in front of your Sinibombs. Infact, Sinistar, that cheating bastard, will ram his gigantic ass into a planetoid, sending it smacking into you, sending you bouncing off enemies RIGHT INTO SINISTAR'S OPEN MOUTH.

All Sinistar has to do is TOUCH you, and it's over.

Then, then when you start your next life, guess what? Yeah, 4 Warrior ships SWARMING around your spawn point. I've been shot down several times before I could even MOVE.

Edit: also, after constructing Sinistar, worker ships DO NOTHING else but try to block your Sinibombs.

And, no matter how many times you kill the workers or warriors, as soon as it blows up ANOTHER ONE flies in,


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## sean11790 (Jun 6, 2008)

haHAha! 
in perfect dark zero, i cant even get past the training level in dark agent.
man i cant get past any lvl in dark agent. the only way i win is to grab a plasma gun, invisify myslf, punch a guy in the back do nodmg, and die 5000 times. eventually i just shoot a hummer and crawl in, curl up, and wait for my stealth to recharge. 

and what about devil may cry 4?
its hard to even win the first boss with 10 or so health items,
and a few gallons of holy water.


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## Hartiorjzf (Aug 4, 2011)

*There is a problem*

Hi all


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## Fay V (Aug 4, 2011)

yes I beat Super mario without warps...it starts over...with tougher enemies. That was a great lesson in life.

As for the pause menu items, yes and no, it depends on the game. When there is a never ending stream of enemies, it doesn't really make it easier, it just makes it passable


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## Waffles (Aug 4, 2011)

AUGH THIS NECRO! ;o;
Whatever. I say yes, because in the long run, it really just does. I'm playing MMOs where you actually have to find a safe spot to heal, and it just makes sense. >_>


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## Fay V (Aug 4, 2011)

ha I didn't see this was a necro. my bad. a more powerful mod will be here shortly.


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## Corto (Aug 4, 2011)

Locked


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