# DarkFall: Hardcore MMO with an Anthro Wolf race



## HappyWulf (Nov 27, 2010)

Its:  www.darkfallonline.com

First of all, I want to stress that this is not your mama's MMO. It's harsh, it's difficult, you can be killed by anyone, anywhere.  But, it's rewarding!  It will not hold your hand like a baby, like WoW does. It's an open sandbox. It's very much like what Elder Scrolls (Oblivion, Morrowind) would be like if it were an MMO. If this interests you, read on.

It's *classless*, meaning you only edit the looks of your character when you first start. There is no class selection. It's *Level-less*. As you play, you simply get better at what you do by doing it! If you want to become a powerful spell caster, grab a Staff and start tossing spells until you unlock some of the really scary stuff. Pick out a melee weapon that you like and have it at the ready when you run out of mana or goblins run up to your face.

Anyways, let's get into it. It's Classless, Level-less, *Full Loot* meaning if you die your corpse is lootable by anyone. Because of this, you should never carry everything you own with you. The *#1 rule in DarkFall is: Bank often!* It has Guild-Owned cities. Naval and Mounted combat. There is no 'lock on' targeting. Melee combat  is 3rd person, and Archery and Spellcraft are FPS dealies. Arrows are effected by gravity and fall off at a distance, and spells to a long range, but many of the lower level ones have a slow missile speed.  Friendly Fire is always a factor. You have to be aware of AoE spells around friends, or accidentally shooting your buddy in the back with an arrow. Flanking and hitting someone in the back does 40% extra damage.  You become viable to a group of players in just a few short days. Once you have some basic skill in what you want to do, you can join up with a clan and go on epic raids with them! *No need to wait to be "Level 80" to participate in guild activities and fun.*  There are also no limits on what items you can or can't use. *No item has a level requirement*, if you own it, you can use it.

I don't want to take too much more of your time now. So I'll just give the important info now...

There are only 2 servers. a US one and a EU one. I'm on the US one. player name: *Happy Wulf* (First/last name).  I'm in a Furry Friendly guild, "The Furry Incorporation", it's part of a larger alliance and it's quite active, owns a few cities, and they've got plans to kill an Ice Dragon in the next few days that I'm gonna try to be in on that!

There is a 2 week free trial. Give it a shot, no loss to you. give me a shout! send me a friend request! (*Friends lists are hidden in your journal page*)  And be a sexy wuffie with me!  =3


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## BlueEevee (Nov 27, 2010)

This sounds a lot like .Hack on steroids


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## Xenke (Nov 27, 2010)

This could have been interesting if you didn't ruin it.


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## Maisuki (Nov 27, 2010)

I would have considered it if it was free. I guess I'll just stick with worgen for now :V


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## Tycho (Nov 27, 2010)

Damn MMOs... luring the unwary into their grasp, sinking their filthy talons into gamers' brainmeats and draining their pocketbooks with wicked slavering fangs and forked tongues.


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## Ames (Nov 27, 2010)

Heard about this a while ago.

Saw the gameplay vids, looked meh.  Was going to try it out, but I guess I forgot about it.

I guess I'll DL it now, but I'm tied up with like three other mmo/mmorpgs atm.


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## Ibuuyk (Nov 27, 2010)

I know another hardcore MMO with an Anthro Wolf race, WoW.

Or at least it'll be at December 7th.


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## Ames (Nov 27, 2010)

Ibuuyk said:


> I know another hardcore MMO with an Anthro Wolf race, WoW.
> 
> Or at least it'll be at December 7th.


 
Also, perfect world.  Anthro tigers, pandas, wolves, etc.


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## Tycho (Nov 27, 2010)

Vanguard.  (has foxes too)

Though nobody in their right mind actually plays that piece of shit.


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## Ames (Nov 27, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Vanguard.  (has foxes too)
> 
> Though nobody in their right mind actually plays that piece of shit.


 
My friend told me to try it out years ago.

Del33ted that shit after ten minutes.


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## HappyWulf (Nov 28, 2010)

> Saw the gameplay vids, looked meh. Was going to try it out, but I guess I forgot about it.


My friend played it a year ago when it launched. Today he says it's VASTLY improved since it first came out.



> I know another hardcore MMO with an Anthro Wolf race, WoW.


You're kidding, right?  WoW is the definition of Casual.



> Vanguard. (has foxes too)
> 
> Though nobody in their right mind actually plays that piece of shit.


Yup... I played that too... Got the collector's edition too... Too bad it got released ha;f done, and then SoE fired all but a skeleton crew and it's still as broken (and a ghost town, now) as when it came out.  I LOVED the crafting and variety of classes though.


Edit: I just wanted to add for anyone who was thinking of joining... Remember, it pulls you in, and then lets go. there is NO hald-holding. if you want a guide, get one online. The game will not help you, you have to help yourself.  I can get you started here, I hope it helps:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDgGgunLhmA


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## Tycho (Nov 28, 2010)

WHY IS CASUAL A BAD THING

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME.

edit: also I am more hardcore than you will ever be I play roguelikes

that should totally be my motto.  Whenever someone calls me casual I can scream "BITCH, I PLAY ROGUELIKES."


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## RockTheFur (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm not really into MMOs >.>
Also, I have never really liked werewolf looks for some reason, so no thanks. The huge upper body compared to the slim lower seems a bit awkward...


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## Sauvignon (Nov 28, 2010)

Sounds pretty cool. I'll give the free trial a... trial.


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## Xenke (Nov 28, 2010)

Tycho said:


> WHY IS CASUAL A BAD THING
> 
> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME.


 
Because elitist fags.

They can't have fun unless a game gives them an aneurism.


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## Kesteh (Nov 28, 2010)

All I know about Darkfall is the underwhelming launch it had.
Also, WoW is serious fucking business at endgame (where all the content is, sadly).


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## HappyWulf (Nov 28, 2010)

> WHY IS CASUAL A BAD THING. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME.
> 
> edit: also I am more hardcore than you will ever be I play roguelikes


I play Angband and DCSS! and Spelunky! I know Roguelike, baby.

Anyways, Casual is bad *when you're looking for something that is actually challenging*. (Meaning I'm not implying that Casual = Bad. But that it's not what I want in a long-term commitment game. WoW puts me to sleep these days, I can't keep my eyes open no matter what I'm doing.) If you just wanna dick around with no fear of loss when you lose, then fine. But WoW is just casual, and if I want to be challenged, it's not where I will find what I'm looking for.

Comparing WoW to something more niche and hardcore like DarkFall, or a Roguelike is like comparing the difficulty of Super Mario Stage 1-1 to fighting a Tigrex for the first time in Monster Hunter.

I'll be playing DF because I want to be challenged. I just wanted to give everyone here a fair warning that it's not for everyone.


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## Captain Howdy (Nov 28, 2010)

Watched a few gameplay videos, and can't say I'd even play it if it were free. Looks like a really bland version of WHO - Not much like WoW surprisingly. Also, I don't see the difficulty - I'm barely seeing anyone to be threatening. 

The concept of conquering cities and stuff is kinda cool, I'd like to see that in action I guess, but would require a lot of hardcoreness on that end to get me hooked...and also wouldn't make very good for a pay-per-month thing.


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## Ikrit (Nov 28, 2010)

"It's *classless*, meaning you only edit the looks of your character when you first start. There is no class selection. As you play, you simply get better at what you do by doing it!"

am i the only one who thought of runescape while reading this?


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## Eligos (Nov 28, 2010)

Ikrit said:


> "It's *classless*, meaning you only edit the looks of your character when you first start. There is no class selection. As you play, you simply get better at what you do by doing it!"
> 
> am i the only one who thought of runescape while reading this?


 
No, I thought of Ultima Online. Actually the whole game reminds me a lot of early UO. Skill based training, full loot, total PvP. Outside of a city, anyone could kill you, and would. I miss that game.


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## HappyWulf (Nov 29, 2010)

> No, I thought of Ultima Online. Actually the whole game reminds me a lot of early UO. Skill based training, full loot, total PvP. Outside of a city, anyone could kill you, and would. I miss that game.



That's exactly what it is.

For the rest of you, I just put this out here. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with me.  If you find a home here, GREAT! If not, oh well. It's a difficult road, expect a slow start. But I'm only 3 weeks in and I'm fairly well off already. The main complaint I'm seeing right now is "I'm not destroying my foes with magical death when I log in for the first time! My magic barely hurts goblins at all and they keep killing me!"  Well, keep at it! Magic, in all classic games, becomes super powerful. But, in classic old games with themes like this, they also start off as the weakest. If you devote the time to it you can be deadly manipulative and powerful. But when you first start you're gonna be shooting potato guns pellets at mobs... and the mobs will laugh and rape your face. So be careful, and draw your sword when they gang up on you.

*Edit:* I just wanted to add. If you do join, and you're having a hard time. Don't complain!! Instead, ask for help.  Complainers will likely be told to go to a more forgiving game. People who show initiative and ask for help will likely be rewarded with some sexy equipment to help keep them alive in their starting days.

I also suggest staying guildless for your first week. Once you decide to stick around, you can join the Furry Incorporation.  The reason why I say you should stay guildless for this time period is because when you join a guild, you will be open to being killed by people who your guild is at war with. This can even happen inside city walls.  You can call alliance members to come help, but it's good to get your feet first.

Finally, *today Monday, I have the night off from work*. I can help people who join, take you to the goblin city near the starting area to get used to fighting, and then take you to the sewers in the main Wolf city until you graduate PvE competence. After that I'd rather open for exploring and finding far off places to search for monsters to kill and treasures to find.

Remember to add me to your friends list, Happy Wulf, 2 words. And once you're ready to commit and join the guild, send a request to join and you'll be approved.


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## Verin Asper (Nov 29, 2010)

I gotta be the only furry who avoid games that have anthros in em, just knowing some furfag is only playing that race cause its anthro


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## 8-bit (Nov 29, 2010)

BlueEevee said:


> This sounds a lot like .Hack on steroids


 
WHICH IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT >:[



Seriously, a .hack MMo (besides fragment. That was a horrible mistake) would be.... ohmygod I'm drooling.

Mor on topic: Why would I play a game where I could lose everything I put effort into aquiring?


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## Oovie (Dec 1, 2010)

This game needs Gnomes for me to enjoy it.


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## Mentova (Dec 1, 2010)

Tycho said:


> WHY IS CASUAL A BAD THING
> 
> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME.
> 
> ...



But you don't _understand man!_ The *CASUALS!* are ruining my videogames!

I hate that argument too...


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## Ozriel (Dec 1, 2010)

Tycho said:


> WHY IS CASUAL A BAD THING
> 
> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME.
> 
> ...


 

Because in order to be a real MMOer, you have to sacrifice everything you hold dear in order to achieve better than average to excellence in the game...and you have to have a neckbeard in order to prove how much time you have volunteered. :V


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## Kesteh (Dec 2, 2010)

I hate the anti-casual shit. God forbid I step back into an RTS again. I'm too "casual" to even play those apparently.

Looking at this game, I'm also reminded of Runescape. Just with more grief potential on top of a fee.


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## Tycho (Dec 2, 2010)

I read a little more about DarkFall and I can honestly say that if it weren't for the fact that I despise MMOs almost universally (partially because the other people you pay monthly fees to interact with are almost all douches) it sounds good to me.  Doesn't sound as painful as FFXI, at least.


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## Cute_Wolfy (Dec 5, 2010)

Tycho said:


> WHY IS CASUAL A BAD THING
> 
> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME.


 P.S. i iz bored

Ok lets start with the basic reason games exist, to make losers "win" and feel better by being part and winning an Epic adventure. Casuals suck in most games therefore they can only win other players in unfair situations like playing the counter class or having insane stat advantage due to levels. Fair competition isnt good for them because they cant win and then they just throw the "i just want to have fun" argument which is false because a casual=non-gamer(playing games doesn't make u a gamer) can have fun in pretty much any type of game, even the most simplistic one...
Casuals shouldn't be called a target group because they are simply not a target, they are free money. Add gimmicky, add money stealing mechanic(example:gear advancements,level stats and 100 ladders for 100 different things like raids/pve/deaths/killing blows so they can make each noob feel good), and add marketing and voila, you got many casuals buying your crappy game... 
Casuals are the majority of the people who play games so a company must mainly focus on casual gameplay so the game succeeds and gets enough money, hardcore is a second priority since it isnt cost/effective...

Creating a hardcore game might be difficult but its impossible to make a game with subscription model and not add money stealing mechanics like gear/leveing(grind) because then your game might be competitive but it wont be popular and wont be known aka economic fail.


About darkfall, i tried it i cant say i liked it.
The graphics or at least the models and animations were ugly(many edges etc) imo
The starting epic lie of there is no leveling grind which makes most ppl believe there is no grind, but darkfall had the worst kind of grind in any game out there because it requires both time and money and being more active than other simple mmos that dont need targeting(cant say its wrong for pvp but for pve its simply ridiculously time consuming + the amount of skills...)
Ui=B A D bad

I have only found 1 game that there was hardcore pvp, sadly its name is WoW. But thats only after the grind for levels and then gear, but wow base is very good, the animations and graphics give it smoothness and responsiveness which is very important for a pvp game.
+Plus it isnt a nooby rock paper scissors game where a person that sucks can win you because he plays the counter class...(not that wow is perfectly balanced in 1v1 but its kinda good compared to most other games)


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## Werevixen (Dec 5, 2010)

PlaneShift is another, it has anthro felines and a fish-dragon-human race.


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## Tycho (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> P.S. i iz bored
> 
> Ok lets start with the basic reason games exist, to make losers "win" and feel better by being part and winning an Epic adventure. Casuals suck in most games therefore they can only win other players in unfair situations like playing the counter class or having insane stat advantage due to levels. Fair competition isnt good for them because they cant win and then they just throw the "i just want to have fun" argument which is false because a casual=non-gamer(playing games doesn't make u a gamer) can have fun in pretty much any type of game, even the most simplistic one...
> Casuals shouldn't be called a target group because they are simply not a target, they are free money. Add gimmicky, add money stealing mechanic(example:gear advancements,level stats and 100 ladders for 100 different things like raids/pve/deaths/killing blows so they can make each noob feel good), and add marketing and voila, you got many casuals buying your crappy game...
> Casuals are the majority of the people who play games so a company must mainly focus on casual gameplay so the game succeeds and gets enough money, hardcore is a second priority since it isnt cost/effective...


 
You sound like a butthurt "h4rdc0r3" gamer.


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## Cute_Wolfy (Dec 5, 2010)

Tycho said:


> You sound like a butthurt "h4rdc0r3" gamer.


 And you sound like a typical casual who doesnt like the truth and attacks with no arguments.

p.s.: i am sorry i forgot this is a furry forum, why the yiff do i talk about games seriously here lol


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## Xenke (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> And you sound like a typical casual who doesnt like the truth and attacks with no arguments.
> 
> p.s.: i am sorry i forgot this is a furry forum, why the yiff do i talk about games seriously here lol


 
You sound pretty trolled, you should leave forever.


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## Eligos (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> I have only found 1 game that there was hardcore pvp, sadly its name is WoW. But thats only after the grind for levels and then gear, but wow base is very good, the animations and graphics give it smoothness and responsiveness which is very important for a pvp game.
> +Plus it isnt a nooby rock paper scissors game where a person that sucks can win you because he plays the counter class...(not that wow is perfectly balanced in 1v1 but its kinda good compared to most other games)



Holy bullshit batman!

Wow's PvP balance has _always_ been a merry-go-round of counterclasses. One look at history of high-rated arena teams will tell you than. And just because they have a rated form of PvP, I would hardly call the game hardcore. Which is probably for the best, because WoW's dedication to the casual gamer is probably why it is dominating the MMO market.


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## Cute_Wolfy (Dec 5, 2010)

Eligos said:


> Holy bullshit batman!
> 
> Wow's PvP balance has _always_ been a merry-go-round of counterclasses. One look at history of high-rated arena teams will tell you than. And just because they have a rated form of PvP, I would hardly call the game hardcore. Which is probably for the best, because WoW's dedication to the casual gamer is probably why it is dominating the MMO market.



 This is different, it is a balance issues, balance always goes up and down and changes every x months.

What i meant was games like eve online or lineage 2 where if your opponent plays the counter-class no matter what you do(expect if you run away xD) you will die, even if the opponent sux. At these games it is not a balance issue it is a mechanic that they chose to use and it is static.

WoW inst intended or isnt 100% intended(some of the balance changes might just happen to keep players interested and play and pay more) to be rock paper scissors


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## Tycho (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> And you sound like a typical casual who doesnt like the truth and attacks with no arguments.
> 
> p.s.: i am sorry i forgot this is a furry forum, why the yiff do i talk about games seriously here lol


 
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the FUN I am having playing casually.  BAWWWW harder.



Cute_Wolfy said:


> WoW inst intended or isnt 100% intended(some of the balance changes might just happen to keep players interested and play and pay more) to be rock paper scissors


 
[yt]NXX8URSUWm0[/yt]

:V


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## Xenke (Dec 5, 2010)

Tycho said:


> [yt]NXX8URSUWm0[/yt]
> 
> :V


 
I lost it at "But rock can't find scissors".


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## HappyBunny (Dec 5, 2010)

I think this sounds like a good idea. But... it looks kinda like poo.


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## Werevixen (Dec 5, 2010)

To be more on-topic, saying Darkfall doesn't look like a quality product worth paying twice for (purchase and subscription) doesn't cut it, it's a fool's purchase. I know I myself play a game like that (Anarchy Online), but that one has a long-standing legacy even greater than WoW's.


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## Cute_Wolfy (Dec 5, 2010)

Xenke said:


> I lost it at "But rock can't find scissors".


 I lost it when casuals with no idea about gaming post videos that can be 100% false and stupid people can easily believe them with no questions asked... The only fact that you show is that the level of casual players in gaming is looooooooow, bottom low, low low low xD
This video could have been valid at a specific period of time in wow, but wows balance changes all the time and isnt static so the video if false and shouldnt be used as a fact...

Games that choose to use rock paper scissors mechanic are static because they want casuals aka noobs to be happy by "winning" someone even if its an one sided battle. So keep them happy get their money

edit: i dont reply to 100% troll post aka xenke xD


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## Xenke (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> I lost it when casuals with no idea about gaming post videos that can be 100% false and stupid people can easily believe them with no questions asked... The only fact that you show is that the level of casual players in gaming is looooooooow, bottom low, low low low xD
> This video could have been valid at a specific period of time in wow, but wows balance changes all the time and isnt static so the video if false and shouldnt be used as a fact...
> 
> Games that choose to use rock paper scissors mechanic are static because they want casuals aka noobs to be happy by "winning" someone even if its an one sided battle. So keep them happy get their money


 
U r dum. U r rlly rlly dum. 4 realz.

To think you thought I thought that was a factual video. _Priceless~_

I do think it's funny that you can't seem to appreciate the game for anything else other than frustration, though.

You'd probably hate the game Starship Titanic. It's challenging, but it's based on puzzles and not KILL KILL KILL, so your brain would probably break. It's beautiful, but you can't appreciate that. It's witty but meh... you like games with crap fantasy stories. Music? Who needs it! It's just fluff!


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## Eligos (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> This is different, it is a balance issues, balance always goes up and down and changes every x months.
> 
> What i meant was games like eve online or lineage 2 where if your opponent plays the counter-class no matter what you do(expect if you run away xD) you will die, even if the opponent sux. At these games it is not a balance issue it is a mechanic that they chose to use and it is static.
> 
> WoW inst intended or isnt 100% intended(some of the balance changes might just happen to keep players interested and play and pay more) to be rock paper scissors



I hardly consider this type of balance beneficial for a game. My class suddenly not being able to defend itself because another class got it's turn on the round-robin of developing cycle is annoying as hell.
I play Eve Online. Ships in that game have specific roles in mind, and some roles are specific counters to other ships. Very similar to how modern destroyers and cruisers are designed to screen aircraft carriers from submarines and enemy aircraft. The fact that anyone can fly any ship is also kind of nice.

On topic: Looking at Darkfall, I'm pretty sure the game is not for me. I read from some reviews that all though the game has improved since launch, it's still sub-par.


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## Waffles (Dec 5, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> I lost it when casuals with no idea about gaming post videos that can be 100% false and stupid people can easily believe them with no questions asked... The only fact that you show is that the level of casual players in gaming is looooooooow, bottom low, low low low xD
> This video could have been valid at a specific period of time in wow, but wows balance changes all the time and isnt static so the video if false and shouldnt be used as a fact...
> 
> Games that choose to use rock paper scissors mechanic are static because they want casuals aka noobs to be happy by "winning" someone even if its an one sided battle. So keep them happy get their money
> ...


Except that causals make up MOST of the gaming market, online or not.
Except for the fact that most highly-rated games are for casual gamers.
Except that gaming companies now realize that profits and solid earnings are in the casual market.
Except for the fact that the video was VERY true.
Cmon dude, the examples are everywhere. Even a casual gamer can make the best pokemon team, or reach a high level in an MMO. Casual gamers are what keeps games like WoW and etc alive.
And Darkfall looks really dull :K If the whole game is a battlefield, that's kinda.... just dumb.


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## Tycho (Dec 5, 2010)

Xenke said:


> You'd probably hate the game Starship Titanic. It's challenging, but it's based on puzzles and not KILL KILL KILL, so your brain would probably break. It's beautiful, but you can't appreciate that. It's witty but meh... you like games with crap fantasy stories. Music? Who needs it! It's just fluff!


 
HAY WERE IS THE ACHIEVEMENTS AT IN STARSHIP TITANIC, HOW DO I BUY GOLD FOR STARSHIP TITANIC, HOW DO I PWN NOOBS IN STARSHIP TITANIC :V


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## Attaman (Dec 5, 2010)

Oovie said:


> This game needs Gnomes for me to enjoy it.


Need more Jan Jansen?

Also, I'mma leave this here.


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## Cute_Wolfy (Dec 5, 2010)

Waffles said:


> Except that causals make up MOST of the gaming market, online or not.
> Except for the fact that most highly-rated games are for casual gamers.
> Except that gaming companies now realize that profits and solid earnings are in the casual market.
> Except for the fact that the video was VERY true.
> ...


 Ehm, i completely agree with you but whats your point??


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## Imperial Impact (Dec 6, 2010)

Errrr, Wtf?

MMO =/= Hardcore


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## Azure (Dec 6, 2010)

Just stopping by this thread to say that the words "Hardcore" and "Gaming" never, ever belong together in any combination or form of innuendo. There is nothing hardcore about gaming, especially MMO's, the only thing possibly hardcore about them is the level of obesity of the users, and perhaps those users arteries. Good day gentleman.


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## Cute_Wolfy (Dec 6, 2010)

ehm... Hello e-sports??? Even WoW has arena seasons but arent that balanced compared to most e-sport games though xD


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## Fenrari (Dec 6, 2010)

Or you could play WoW and play either a druid or Worgens?


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## Mentova (Dec 6, 2010)

Cute_Wolfy said:


> ehm... Hello e-sports??? Even WoW has arena seasons but arent that balanced compared to most e-sport games though xD


 "e-sports" are the worst idea ever and I really wish people would get over the idea of "professional gaming"


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## Xenke (Dec 6, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> "e-sports" are the worst idea ever and I really wish people would get over the idea of "professional gaming"


 
This, so much.

Just what we need, to ENCOURAGE no-life losers to have even less of a life.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure the point of playing a game is too counterbalance working in a profession, not to become one itself.

And, it's NOT FUN.


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## Mentova (Dec 6, 2010)

Xenke said:


> This, so much.
> 
> Just what we need, to ENCOURAGE no-life losers to have even less of a life.
> 
> ...



I never even got the point to professional gaming. Games don't require any more skills than "memorize controls and have a good reaction time" or for RTS games "Memorize strategies and what units counter each other" There isn't really any amazing show of skill there. And it's boring to watch. Nobody wants to watch other people play videogames unless they're doing something goofy or griefing.


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## Xenke (Dec 6, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> griefing.


 
Hehehe. >:3


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## Oovie (Dec 7, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> I never even got the point to  professional gaming. Games don't require any more skills than "memorize  controls and have a good reaction time" or for RTS games "Memorize  strategies and what units counter each other" There isn't really any  amazing show of skill there. And it's boring to watch. Nobody wants to  watch other people play videogames unless they're doing something goofy  or griefing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJp0t9n8DWk&feature=related

It's not as linear as you think it is, if it was Boxer wouldn't be able to kill so many Lurkers with those few Marines. Obviously there is a show of skill involved in some games.


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## Armaetus (Dec 7, 2010)

Pass.


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## CyberFoxx (Dec 8, 2010)

Forced PvP? Yeah, I'll pass.


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