# In Need of Website



## Rika (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm wanting to commission someone to build a website for Wulf's Den Designs. If anyone's intrested, please give me examples of other websites you've done and a price quote. Note me on here, Email me or message me on FA


wulfs_den_designs@yahoo.com

www.furaffinity.net/user/rika/



Thank you

Rika


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## Rika (Jun 2, 2008)

*In need of a Website.*

I'm wanting to commission someone to build a website for Wulf's Den Designs. If anyone's intrested, please give me examples of other websites you've done and a price quote. Note me on here, Email me or message me on FA


wulfs_den_designs@yahoo.com

www.furaffinity.net/user/rika/



Thank you

Rika


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## Oni (Jun 2, 2008)

I created www.omnifur.org

If you want something simple enough, I will create your site and ask for only artwork in return.  ^.^


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## codewolf (Jun 2, 2008)

i have sent you a PM on the main site rika


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## lilEmber (Jun 2, 2008)

There are plenty of free hosting sites, with full PHP support. All you'd have to do is pay for domain and thats like less than $10 a year for a .com.

http://phpnet.us//content/view/16/26/ full php suppot, 350 MB hosting, compleatly free and ad free, $2.99 a month or a little over $35.00 a year 5GB and 250GB transfer.

http://www.free-site-host.com/ 100GB but with ads, with drupal6 you can remove those ads.


WOULD HIGHLY suggest one of these, you won't even need your own domain. But its a much more high quality site with a nice .com URL. 

Drupal6 makes everything easy and with pre made templates that are easy to arrange, quick and fun.


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## Oni (Jun 2, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> There are plenty of free hosting sites, with full PHP support. All you'd have to do is pay for domain and thats like less than $10 a year for a .com.
> 
> http://phpnet.us//content/view/16/26/ full php suppot, 350 MB hosting, compleatly free and ad free, $2.99 a month or a little over $35.00 a year 5GB and 250GB transfer.
> 
> ...


Excellent suggestions NewfDraggie. ^.^


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## lilEmber (Jun 2, 2008)

Oni said:


> Excellent suggestions NewfDraggie. ^.^



Thanks Oni <3


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## Oni (Jun 2, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> Thanks Oni <3


^.^ Us dragons tend to think alike.


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## lilEmber (Jun 2, 2008)

Oni said:


> ^.^ Us dragons tend to think alike.



^..^ <3 Never actually knew you were a dragon, The more the better! Soon we will have numbers to control the world. Make it our slut.


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## Oni (Jun 2, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> ^..^ <3 Never actually knew you were a dragon, The more the better! Soon we will have numbers to control the world. Make it our slut.


*LAUGHS* I am a foxdragon. Now now, "slut" is a bit harsh. How about a pampered pet?


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## Xipoid (Jun 2, 2008)

Might I step my foot in and suggest Open Source Web Page Designs? (There are other sites as well; this is just one example)


They are entirely free, require no registration, and with no strings attached. If you know anything about CSS or basic HTML you can modify to your needs. Though, if you are in need of some rather advanced things, it might be best to just hire someone professional.


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## Oni (Jun 2, 2008)

Well now that you mention that Xipoid,

http://www.w3schools.com/

W3 schools has detailed instructions which will teach to OP how to script and program with multiple languages, starting with html.


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## Cybergarou (Jun 2, 2008)

I strongly agree with the suggestion of using Drupal 6. Drupal is a very versatile system that I've used for a couple years now. There is also a lot of help available, so just about anyone can work with it. (And it also received an award recently, if that counts for anything.)


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## indrora (Jun 2, 2008)

or you could use a service like freeweb7 -- freeweb7.com

100gb space 100gb bandwith free under a subdomain no ads full PHP MySQL

I'd reccomend Flatpress as a blog platform too :3


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## Cybergarou (Jun 3, 2008)

Just a little more information for you. If you want to try out some of these platforms yourself without installing them, go to OpenSourceCMS. You can explore the workings of each platform as the administrator. Every two hours the system reverts so you don't have to worry about breaking anything.

FlatPress is listed under blogs and Drupal is listed under portals.


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## Eevee (Jun 3, 2008)

OP is asking for _someone else_ to construct a site; why is everyone just offering instructions on how to build a site  :V

and lol PHP as a selling point


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## lilEmber (Jun 3, 2008)

Eevee said:


> OP is asking for _someone else_ to construct a site; why is everyone just offering instructions on how to build a site  :V
> 
> and lol PHP as a selling point



Because it is so easy that doing it yourself and learning how is not only fun, but its something everyone should at least try.


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## Eevee (Jun 3, 2008)

I am not sure I entirely agree.  It is easy to _do_, but hard to do _well_, and there are not quite so many resources devoted to the latter.  Not learning at all is better than learning just barely enough to do a crappy job.


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## lilEmber (Jun 3, 2008)

Eevee said:


> I am not sure I entirely agree.  It is easy to _do_, but hard to do _well_, and there are not quite so many resources devoted to the latter.  Not learning at all is better than learning just barely enough to do a crappy job.



So...your opinion is to not try and you won't ever know? with druple6 you can't really make it look bad or screw up, if you do just reset it and try again just like art, its the only way to get good is to try, fail, try again. Not use that attitude of, naw I'll get someone else to try for me because I can't click my mouse...


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## yak (Jun 3, 2008)

As a professional web developer I have to say that anything HTML created in a WSYWG like program is sub-par at best, and it would be extreme luck if it turns out to be cross-browser capable.

If you want to do something good, you'll have to learn HTML, learn, and not just skip over a tutorial. When you do that, you'll suddenly realize you'll need to learn CSS as well, and it snowballs from that point. 

If you're content with something that looks good, and can make something similar - then that's fine too. It works for many people with personal websites. But it's not 'good', it simply 'works'. But even here you still need to know basic HTML to remove/fix the monstrosities of the program-generated code.


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## Eevee (Jun 3, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> So...your opinion is to not try and you won't ever know?


If the person in question just wants to make one site and call it quits?  Yes.  I would rather have someone not know than piss further into the ocean of piss that is the Web.


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## Pi (Jun 4, 2008)

Ed, rcp and NCSA Mosaic 3.0

only way to fly


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## Oni (Jun 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> Because it is so easy that doing it yourself and learning how is not only fun, but its something everyone should at least try.


*Concurs*
I must add, that building your first website with html  can be a very rewarding and extremely entertaining experience.


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## lilEmber (Jun 4, 2008)

*Giggles* PHP is much better though <3 but your first HTML anything is quite fun and regarding, once you get that, and BBCode, and Java, and PHP its super easy and fun, druple6 has it all and its basically explained to you and set up for you to just edit...


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## indrora (Jun 4, 2008)

and writing your own BBCode parser in PHP is FUN! F-U-N! Frustrating, Unditerministic and a Nucance. but its a good learning experience.


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## Eevee (Jun 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> *Giggles* PHP is much better though <3


Fuck PHP.  I would rather someone never learn to program at all than pick up PHP.



indrora said:


> and writing your own BBCode parser in PHP is FUN! F-U-N! Frustrating, Unditerministic and a Nucance.


What?  I've written one in Perl, and net-cat wrote one in Python.  Neither of us had any trouble.

(And yes, real parsers that check for correctness, not just regexes.)


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## Pi (Jun 4, 2008)

newfdraggie said:
			
		

> PHP is much better though



I hope you write a program one day.


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## codewolf (Jun 4, 2008)

Eevee said:


> Fuck PHP.  I would rather someone never learn to program at all than pick up PHP.



Eevee, we ALL know your opinion on php, and to be honest we dont really care, php is an easy language to pick up on and can be a good starting block for getting into other languages too.


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## supercutefurri58 (Jun 4, 2008)

For a new website, I *highly* recommend the Yahoo! Geocities PageBuilder, as well as Front Page 98. I have been on the internet since 1996 and can tell you from first-hand experience that these products produce the best results and are the tools the best websites are built with.

Good luck with your endeavor!


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## codewolf (Jun 4, 2008)

supercutefurri58 said:


> For a new website, I *highly* recommend the Yahoo! Geocities PageBuilder, as well as Front Page 98. I have been on the internet since 1996 and can tell you from first-hand experience that these products produce the best results and are the tools the best websites are built with.



................................. O_O............................... BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


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## Pi (Jun 4, 2008)

codewolf said:


> Eevee, we ALL know your opinion on php, and to be honest we dont really care, php is an easy language to pick up on and can be a good starting block for getting into other languages too.



It can be a good stumbling block for learning what real programming languages do. I myself have had to get over various brain damages supplied by both Perl and PHP. The latter was far more painful to unlearn the myriad bad habits.

eRuby would be a much better choice than PHP, but many hosts don't support it.


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## Eevee (Jun 4, 2008)

codewolf said:


> Eevee, we ALL know your opinion on php, and to be honest we dont really care


I'm glad my myriad well-reasoned and defended arguments against PHP are being judged on their merits rather than in the light of "well I like PHP".  I would like to emphasize that nobody has ever named for me a single advantage PHP has.



codewolf said:


> php is an easy language to pick up on


It's not "easy".  It's simple to the point of being braindead, which both makes higher-level programming harder and pollutes any attempts to learn a better language.



Pi said:


> I myself have had to get over various brain damages supplied by both Perl and PHP.


Oh dear.  What sort of drain-bamage did Perl inflict?


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## nrr (Jun 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> *Giggles* PHP is much better though <3 but your first HTML anything is quite fun and regarding, once you get that, and BBCode, and Java, and PHP its super easy and fun, druple6 has it all and its basically explained to you and set up for you to just edit...




```
$SESSION_EXPIRE_TYPES = array(
    "short" => 60 * 60 * 24 * 2, # 48 hours
    "long" => 60 * 60 * 24 * 60, # 60 days
    "once" => 60 * 60 * 24 * 2); # short with no renewal

function ap_create_session($uid, $opts = array())
{
    global $SESSION_EXPIRE_TYPES;
    $session = array();
    
    if (!ap_prune_sessions($uid))
        return;
    
    if (!isset($opts["expire_type"]))
        $opts["expire_type"] = "short";
    
    if ($opts["expire_type"] != "long" or
        $opts["expire_type"] != "short" or
        $opts["expire_type"] != "once")
        $opts["expire_type"] = "short";
    
    if (isset($opts["ip_fixed?"]) and
        !is_null($opts["ip_fixed?"]) and
        is_string($opts["ip_fixed?"]) and
        strlen($opts["ip_fixed?"]) <= 15)
    {
        $session["ip_fixed?"] = $opts["ip_fixed?"];
    } else
    {
        $session["ip_fixed?"] = NULL;
    }
    
    $tc = time();
    $ttl = $SESSION_EXPIRE_TYPES[$opts["expire_type"]];
    $te = $tc + $ttl;
    
    $session["user_id"] = $uid;
    $session["id"] = ap_alloc_session_counter($uid);
    $session["auth"] = ap_create_random_string(10);
    $session["expire_type"] = $opts["expire_type"];
    $session["time_create"] = $tc;
    $session["time_expire"] = $te;

    $q = ap_query("REPLACE INTO sessions "
        . "(user_id, session_id, auth, expire_type, "
        . "time_create, time_expire, ip_fixed) "
        . "VALUES "
        . "(?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)", $session["user_id"],
        $session["id"], $session["auth"],
        $session["expire_type"], $session["time_create"],
        $session["time_expire"], $session["ip_fixed?"]);

    if (!$q)
        return;
    
    return $session;
}
```

You consider that shit fun?  Have at it.  Enjoy your countless workarounds.


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## nrr (Jun 4, 2008)

codewolf said:


> php is an easy language to pick up on and can be a good starting block for getting into other languages too.



in before lol internet arguing

As far as I'm concerned, the whole field of Web development is an absolute crock, but that's fine.  I can't really knock it because it's garnered me a paycheck on several occasions, but when I say that it's an absolute crock, I'm really saying this: Web developers tend not to know their assholes from holes in the ground when it comes to even the simplest of best practices with regard to writing (secure|fast|stable|sane|sensible|maintainable|coherent) code.

PHP's object system is a joke, but people make an attempt to use it anyway.  FWIW, PHP's idea of an object instance is merely just a glorified dictionary with a few function references tossed in for good measure.  Polymorphism doesn't work, and inheritance is pretty weird at best.

PHP's idea of types is a joke, but people make an attempt to use them anyway.

PHP's idea of anonymous functions is a joke.

The fact that PHP lacks late binding makes the whole language a joke for anything remotely serious.

... and so on and so forth ad infinitum.


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## Pi (Jun 4, 2008)

Eevee said:


> Oh dear.  What sort of drain-bamage did Perl inflict?



mostly a set of weird things with scoping, unusual syntax barf, too-many-ways-to-do-it. Your usual braindamage. But, now I write the most beautiful perl some of my friends have seen.


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## lilEmber (Jun 4, 2008)

PHP is the best language to build a site out of, period. If you find it too hard, then maybe take up something else for your pastime, PHP allows a lot of things...nrr, clearly you don't have the ability to read and learn...use drupal6 it will make it a lot easier.


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## Pi (Jun 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> PHP is the best language to build a site out of, period. If you find it too hard, then maybe take up something else for your pastime, PHP allows a lot of things...nrr, clearly you don't have the ability to read and learn...use drupal6 it will make it a lot easier.



Yeah, a language that has no abstraction capability, security holes out the ass, automatically mangles your data FOR YOU, an interpreter that's deliberately crippled, has inconsistent syntax, no namespaces, and an idiotic developer community that posits all of the languages failures as strengths is the best language ever.

And don't get turing-tarpitty on me, or so help me god


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## Eevee (Jun 4, 2008)

Pi said:


> mostly a set of weird things with scoping, unusual syntax barf, too-many-ways-to-do-it. Your usual braindamage.


Ah.  Alas, I think one of the biggest pitfalls of Perl is that the best guides to learning it are woefully outdated.



Pi said:


> But, now I write the most beautiful perl some of my friends have seen.


^5 for beautiful Perl



NewfDraggie said:


> PHP is the best language to build a site out of, period.


I have made many a detailed diatribe of PHP.  nrr just listed the most prominent complaints.  Please either actually address these or keep your uninformed perspective to yourself.  I'm tired of putting effort into attempting to improve the software world only to be met with "NO I LIKE PHP".  I am more than willing to engage in real conversation; language design is fascinating.



NewfDraggie said:


> If you find it too hard, then maybe take up something else for your pastime, PHP allows a lot of things...


"Allows a lot of things" is meaningless tripe.  Any Turing-complete language with C bindings is equally capable of performing any high-level task.  This is not a selling point.



NewfDraggie said:


> nrr, clearly you don't have the ability to read and learn...use drupal6 it will make it a lot easier.


I'm getting the feeling here that drupal is the only tool you've used, you thought it was cool, and therefore it must be best and can solve any problem.


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## Oni (Jun 4, 2008)

codewolf said:


> Eevee, we ALL know your opinion on php, and to be honest we dont really care, php is an easy language to pick up on and can be a good starting block for getting into other languages too.


"We"? You should speak for yourself and not others.

Sorry, I agree with Eevee who is quite a bit more experienced than you regarding programming. Why begin with a horrible starting block when a person can bite right into the meat of a decent language?

*"listens" to Eevee and Pi's language discussion*



Eevee said:


> I'm getting the feeling here that drupal is the only tool you've used, you thought it was cool, and therefore it must be best and can solve any problem.


*laughs* Amazing! you did not insult the postee; which seems to be a common thing that happens when you and Pi are about.


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## Pi (Jun 4, 2008)

Oni said:


> *laughs* Amazing! you did not insult the postee; which seems to be a common thing that happens when you and Pi are about.



I was being pretty condescending, which most people take to be insulting.

You fucktrap.


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## Oni (Jun 4, 2008)

Pi said:


> I was being pretty condescending, which most people take to be insulting.
> 
> You fucktrap.


Says the incredibly verbose wanna-be sidekick. I now understand why you chose a mouse as something you relate to; it is weak.

*note to the admins, we are playing, please troll elsewhere.*


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## yak (Jun 4, 2008)

Professional musicians can extract godlike sounds even from the most horrible instruments. They quickly adopt their usage of said instruments to counter for it's flaws. Yes, they'd be far better off playing the Stradivari's violin then a plastic cheap piece of junk they bought in a $1.02 store - but that's not always an option.

Amateurs however are capable of squeezing teeth-grinding sounds from even the most professional of equipments.

Same set of principals apply to photography, art, numerous other fields of brain activity  - and I don't see how programming is any different .


---

I am tired of holy wars. This thread is becoming to resemble one too damn much.


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## nrr (Jun 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> PHP is the best language to build a site out of, period.



You know, I desperately want to believe that PHP is the answer to all Web development problems, but I can't do that.  The fact that I can't really all that easily write extensions in C for speed-critical components (like, say, vendor-proprietary crypto for a client project...) or conveniently toss up a development environment anywhere -- the components of which include a self-hosted server process, decent programming editor (like Emacs, not Notepad), and symbolic debugger -- really doesn't make it a good choice for a lot of my work.

Rails and camping offer this with Ruby.  web.py, Django, and Pylons offer this with Python.  UCW and Hunchentoot offer this with Common Lisp.  Catalyst and Jifty offer this with Perl.

I mean, even ASP.NET offers this, and Microsoft makes it really easy because all you have to do is click in the margin of your editor to set breakpoints, and their debugger has an inspector for locals to boot.

Yes, it's possible to do that with PHP, but it's also heavily labor- and time-intensive.



NewfDraggie said:


> If you find it too hard, then maybe take up something else for your pastime, PHP allows a lot of things...nrr, clearly you don't have the ability to read and learn...use drupal6 it will make it a lot easier.



It isn't that I find it hard.  It's that I don't see how anyone would willingly choose PHP for any reason other than it being the first and only language any one programmer knows.  PHP is neither elegant, nor is it particularly beautiful.  I don't mean in an Amish way either.

I've spent several hours ripping my hair out because of some of the genuinely asinine things that PHP does, and it seriously got to the point where I started reimplementing the PHP interpreter myself to learn the method to the madness.  It was only then I learned truly how disgusting of a language PHP is.

For what it's worth, though, I can probably still out-PHP you in my sleep, even without the aid of Drupal 6.  Does that mean I really want to?  No!


```
<?
$example1 = Array(0 => "red", "0" => "blue");
print("the pen is " . $example1["0"]);
?>
```

Now, here's the humdinger: What does the above write to the HTTP response?


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