# Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising



## lilEmber (Oct 5, 2009)

So it comes out tomorrow (October 6th) for US (and hopefully Canada as well) and at first when I heard about the game I was like 'meh', looks kinda like a large-scale cod4. But as more and more videos were released on GameTrailers I started to get more and more into the game.

Now I'm buying it tomorrow (or whenever it hits shelves here) without a second thought.
Just look at that link above and watch the latest videos. The game has a realistic gore engine, the sounds and colours are amazing, the sheer amount of things (weapons, driveables, buildings, etc) in the game are amazing. Full destruction on buildings. An actual working FLIR system and much much more. Can't wait.

Looks like COD4 on a large scale with more realism.


Blood. <3


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## Kryn (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm definitely going to be trying this game out on PC. I <3 realistic shooter games like ArmA, insurgency, project reality. I'm still reserving judgment till I actually play it though.


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## lilEmber (Oct 5, 2009)

Yeah me as well, not sure if they'll have a live demo for it but I'll be buying it (hopefully) tomorrow for PC when I go over to pick up some other stuff as well.


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## Ishnuvalok (Oct 5, 2009)

Since they developed it for consoles, it's going to be dumbed down a lot.

"I've just been shot in the head, it's not serious but I am bleeding a lot"

*facepalm*

I'll give it a try, but honestly I'm expecting something like BF2 but a little more advanced.


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## lilEmber (Oct 5, 2009)

Ishnuvalok said:


> Since they developed it for consoles, it's going to be dumbed down a lot.


What are you talking about? lolno.



> "I've just been shot in the head, it's not serious but I am bleeding a lot"
> 
> *facepalm*
> 
> I'll give it a try, but honestly I'm expecting something like BF2 but a little more advanced.


He didn't get shot in the "head" it was a graze, a single headshot will kill you in the game.
You do know they're wearing helmets, right? lol


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## Ishnuvalok (Oct 5, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> What are you talking about? lolno.



Sorry, but it's like that. Games that are getting released on consoles alongside PC, get dumbed down.


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## lilEmber (Oct 5, 2009)

Ishnuvalok said:


> Sorry, but it's like that. Games that are getting released on consoles alongside PC, get dumbed down.



Name one.


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## Shireton (Oct 6, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Name one.


Oblivion, Bioshock, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, Deus Ex 2. I could go on.


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## Ishnuvalok (Oct 6, 2009)

Shireton said:


> Oblivion, Bioshock, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, Deus Ex 2. I could go on.



Don't forget Fallout 3, Crysis 2, Dead Space.


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## lilEmber (Oct 6, 2009)

Ishnuvalok said:


> Don't forget Fallout 3, Crysis 2, Dead Space.





Shireton said:


> Oblivion, Bioshock, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, Deus Ex 2. I could go on.


What are you talking about?
"Crysis 2" isn't out yet, so you know nothing. Bioshock was amazing. Rainbow-six is amazing, Ghost Recon (GRAW) is absolutely amazing on PC and sucks on console. Oblivion is amazing, got GOTY. Dead Space sucks due to story. It's a piss-poor game in every way, and so are the books/movies. Fallout 3 was my personal favorite game for 2008 and deserved GOTY over GTAIV.

Sorry, none of those games are bad. Besides dead space, and that's not due to consoles.


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 6, 2009)

looks like a good game, U.S./Russian Alliance vs. Chinese and close to Japan like WWII in the future. also i get to play as a U.S. Marine which i like considering we keep learning about the Marines but dont do anything cept Drill, PT, and lots of pushups, goddamn platoon cant shut the fuck up.


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## Ishnuvalok (Oct 6, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> W
> 
> Sorry, none of those games are bad.



We're not saying that they're bad. But that they're dumbed down to what they could have been. 

Especially with a game like a warsim, it's going to be dumbed down for the console crowd. Just look at the core demographic of console players *image of 'bro' here* 

What would they think of a game like ArmA 2? Or Operation Flashpoint?


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## lilEmber (Oct 6, 2009)

Ishnuvalok said:


> We're not saying that they're bad. But that they're dumbed down to what they could have been.
> 
> Especially with a game like a warsim, it's going to be dumbed down for the console crowd. Just look at the core demographic of console players *image of 'bro' here*
> 
> What would they think of a game like ArmA 2? Or Operation Flashpoint?



How are they dumbed down in any way?
I don't understand your logic.
Fallout 3 is absolutely amazing. There's not much more they could have done and the same goes for Oblivion.
Again, Crysis 2 isn't even out yet and what they have showed is pretty impressive.

Battlefield Bad-Company 2 will be out for consoles and PC and look how much they're pushing things into the future.

Consoles aren't making games bad in any way. COD: 4 and MW: 2 prove that outright.


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## Mikael Grizzly (Oct 6, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> What are you talking about?
> "Crysis 2" isn't out yet, so you know nothing. Bioshock was amazing. Rainbow-six is amazing, Ghost Recon (GRAW) is absolutely amazing on PC and sucks on console. Oblivion is amazing, got GOTY. Dead Space sucks due to story. It's a piss-poor game in every way, and so are the books/movies. Fallout 3 was my personal favorite game for 2008 and deserved GOTY over GTAIV.
> 
> Sorry, none of those games are bad. Besides dead space, and that's not due to consoles.



Compared to Morrowind (PC was the primary development platform) and Daggerfall (PC) Oblivion is a dumbed down POS in every aspect beside graphics.

Compared to the original Fallout games, Fallout 3, apart from below average 2009 graphics is dumbed down - the SPECIAL system is a gutted remnant of a once powerful, versatile engine, choices and consequences are practically non existent, the gameplay consists of "press V to VVin" and the characters are cardboard cutouts, not real people. The world doesn't make a speck of sense... It's dumbed down.

Bioshock is a redressed, dumbed down System Shock 2, with no inventory management, ammo limits (like a shooter), abundant supplies and you _cannot_ fail or die. 

Ghost Recon is dumbed down compared to the first games in the series, its much more lenient and much more railroaded than the first games.

Rainbow 6... don't even _dare_ to say its not dumbed down. Compared with the original Rainbow 6 and its sequel, Rogue Spear, its an uncomplicated shooter. 

Sure, they might be decent games on their own, but really, you can't honestly say they are _more_ or at least equally as complex as earlier games.

PS: I still love you <3


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 6, 2009)

can we just get back to talking about the game?


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## lilEmber (Oct 6, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Compared to Morrowind (PC was the primary development platform) and Daggerfall (PC) Oblivion is a dumbed down POS in every aspect beside graphics.


That's hilariously wrong. The game is incredible, there's nothing wrong with it. You judge how good a game is by how good older games are? Graphically it's stunning, same as audio. I guess you have no idea how game development works because its story, visuals, and audio are top-notch. You just want to play the older games so I don't see how that's a bad thing.


> Compared to the original Fallout games, Fallout 3, apart from below average 2009 graphics is dumbed down - the SPECIAL system is a gutted remnant of a once powerful, versatile engine, choices and consequences are practically non existent, the gameplay consists of "press V to VVin" and the characters are cardboard cutouts, not real people. The world doesn't make a speck of sense... It's dumbed down.


Same as above.


> Bioshock is a redressed, dumbed down System Shock 2, with no inventory management, ammo limits (like a shooter), abundant supplies and you _cannot_ fail or die.


Again, same thing.


> Ghost Recon is dumbed down compared to the first games in the series, its much more lenient and much more railroaded than the first games.


Again, same thing.


> Rainbow 6... don't even _dare_ to say its not dumbed down. Compared with the original Rainbow 6 and its sequel, Rogue Spear, its an uncomplicated shooter.


Again, same thing.



> Sure, they might be decent games on their own, but really, you can't honestly say they are _more_ or at least equally as complex as earlier games.


They are amazing on their own, I don't judge a game by how good a previous game was. Especially when the previous ones had so many issues and look so horrifically bad I would never, ever play them again. Like I said, you're not judging the games for what they are, but more or less what other games have been like.

That doesn't make a bad game, that doesn't even make a game dumbed down. 

I loved Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Bioshock has a few bugs that kept me from beating the game but I still loved the game. Rainbowsix vegas isn't bad, it isn't good but that can't be blamed on consoles seeing as previous Rainboxsix games weren't amazingly good either.
And Ghost Recon is still awesome on PC, it was just dumbed down for consoles on consoles.



> PS: I still love you <3


<3


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## lilEmber (Oct 6, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> can we just get back to talking about the game?


Fair enough. We were kinda arguing about whether or not the game will be bad because there's a console version. Quite a silly argument with no real evidence, especially the examples given.

I'll be the judge there today when I pick it up, I'll stream some gameplay later on livestream too.


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## blackfuredfox (Oct 6, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Fair enough. We were kinda arguing about whether or not the game will be bad because there's a console version. Quite a silly argument with no real evidence, especially the examples given.
> 
> I'll be the judge there today when I pick it up, I'll stream some gameplay later on livestream too.



well, here is the thing, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. if some one likes something, dose it really matter? ANYWAY, it still looks like a good game.


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## Bambi (Oct 6, 2009)

I actually plan on picking it up for the 360 once my bills come around.

Heh, always wanted to drive those interesting looking chinese tanks.


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## lilEmber (Oct 6, 2009)

Apparently it comes out in stores here tomorrow, so I'll be getting in then. Muhahaha! ._.


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## Shireton (Oct 6, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> That's hilariously wrong. The game is incredible, there's nothing wrong with it. You judge how good a game is by how good older games are? Graphically it's stunning, same as audio. I guess you have no idea how game development works because its story, visuals, and audio are top-notch. You just want to play the older games so I don't see how that's a bad thing.
> <3


The story blew, you had to clear repetitive gates over and over. The gameplay was simplified (dumbed down), you could travel to places just by clicking in your map, you had a magic compass which told you exactly where to go, and enemies scaled as you leveled up, meaning they're always easy. Not to say it's a bad game, it was quite enjoyable, but nonetheless, it WAS dumbed down. And furthermore, I'm not sure how you can say a game isn't dumbed down if you refuse to compare it to previous games in the series. The original Ghost Recon is nothing like GRAW, and Rainbow 6 1-3 are quite different from Vegas 1 and 2. And with RS6 3, the console version is significantly different and dumbed down compared to the pc version.


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## lilEmber (Oct 6, 2009)

It got game of the year and people play it even now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it in any sense of the word. I actually like it more than morrowind, at least in Oblivion I don't "miss" my attack when the enemy is -right- in front of me unable to move.

The game isn't dumbed down, in any sense of the word. Sorry if you feel that way, but thousands of people will disagree with you.

There's no actual comparative data that corresponds game development on a console to a bad game. None. For every one game you can list off that's on console that is bad I can list off two that are good.


On a side note Dragon Rising is now on steam and I'm downloading it as we speak. Once it's done I'm gonna figure out how to play then livestream some action, baby.


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## lilEmber (Oct 7, 2009)

Alright update:
It's amazing. Like, if I had to sum it up in one word I would choose "accomplishment".
I'll livestream it tomorrow for you all to see.

Two hours in and I've had pretty "epic" things happen, like a gunship open up on my location and blowing out walls in pieces of the building I'm in causing me to take cover inside the house in attempt to shield myself from the splash effect the 20mm rounds had. I lost one man with me in critical condition. Thankfully the one man left fully active was a friend of mine (actual human player, coop) who dragged my ass out of the building and into a bunker before patching me up enough to walk, but not shoot well and not sprint at all.

I also managed to lob a HEDP 40mm underslung grenade through a wall of a building before it detonated inside, taking not only part of the wall with it but everybody in the room. Gore, not just blood but bits and pieces, holes, etc.


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## Shireton (Oct 7, 2009)

Sounds very awesome, I wasn't aware buildings were going to be destructible like that, I'm gonna start playing for the first time in half an hour or so, looking very forward to it.


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## Neybulot (Oct 7, 2009)

Hmm...*googles demo on 360 and finds nothing*

Aww...I guess I could rent it to see if I like it.


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## Shireton (Oct 7, 2009)

The 360 isn't getting a demo, from what I've read, only the PC.


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## Mikael Grizzly (Oct 7, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> That's hilariously wrong. The game is incredible, there's nothing wrong with it. You judge how good a game is by how good older games are? Graphically it's stunning, same as audio. I guess you have no idea how game development works because its story, visuals, and audio are top-notch. You just want to play the older games so I don't see how that's a bad thing.



What? Did you just say its story is good? Do we play the same games? 



> They are amazing on their own, I don't judge a game by how good a previous game was. Especially when the previous ones had so many issues and look so horrifically bad I would never, ever play them again. Like I said, you're not judging the games for what they are, but more or less what other games have been like.



Yes, because they are _sequels_. Its generally a good idea to have games in the same series of comparable complexity.



> That doesn't make a bad game, that doesn't even make a game dumbed down.



I've just listed reasons why they are dumbed down and your only reply is "No, they're not.". 



> I loved Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Bioshock has a few bugs that kept me from beating the game but I still loved the game. Rainbowsix vegas isn't bad, it isn't good but that can't be blamed on consoles seeing as previous Rainboxsix games weren't amazingly good either.



First Rainbow Six games remain, to this day, the definition of a tactical first person game. Anything less is dumbed down.



> And Ghost Recon is still awesome on PC, it was just dumbed down for consoles on consoles.



So it was dumbed down because of consoles. MAKE UP YOUR MIND GAWDDAMMIT I AM FOAMING AT THE MOUTH NOW I AM





> <3



<3


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## Olaunn (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm pretty sure the mission editor in the PC version has been taken out of the console version. That really sucks because I love setting up my own war scenarios. I bet they also tweaked down the gore engine to be more compatible with console graphics. With that in mind, hell maybe a few vehicles and weapons were scratched out too. I guess I'll find out when I purchase the game today.


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## Kaamos (Oct 7, 2009)

Shireton said:


> The 360 isn't getting a demo, from what I've read, only the PC.



Damn, that sucks.

The game still looks good, though.


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## Bokracroc (Oct 7, 2009)

15th here  *>:{*
And Alpha Protocol has been pushed back to next year. Meh, AC2, Drake 2 and MW2 and several others I've forgotten at the moment are still coming though.


Mikael Grizzly said:


> Compared to the original Fallout games, Fallout 3, apart from below average 2009 graphics is dumbed down - the SPECIAL system is a gutted remnant of a once powerful, versatile engine, choices and consequences are practically non existent, the gameplay consists of "press V to VVin" and the characters are cardboard cutouts, not real people. The world doesn't make a speck of sense... It's dumbed down.


Says the poster who's a Moderator at NMA.
F3 was dumbed down because of Bethesda.



Mikael Grizzly said:


> Ghost Recon is dumbed down compared to the first games in the series, its much more lenient and much more railroaded than the first games.


Ghost Recon 1 was fine. 2 changed because that's where the money was. Also I believe 1 was dumbed down on the consoles due to controls and limits of the system.
RIP Rainbow 6 though  (Vegas 2 is still awesome though)


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## lilEmber (Oct 7, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Arguement that all games on console are bad


You'll need more proof than that, as I've said for every one bad game made on a console I can list two.


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## Ishnuvalok (Oct 7, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> You'll need more proof than that, as I've said for every one bad game made on a console I can list two.



You're deliberately misunderstanding him, he's not saying that all games on consoles are bad.


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## lilEmber (Oct 7, 2009)

Ishnuvalok said:


> You're deliberately misunderstanding him, he's not saying that all games on consoles are bad.



No, but that is what you (and him in defense of you) are implying.
Proof is in the pudding, you said it would be dumbed down but instead Dragon Rising is a pure accomplishment that far succeeds its predecessors. <3


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## Furlop (Oct 7, 2009)

I don't think Newfie understands what a game being "dumbed down" means, leading to two different people arguing two different things.

Just to make things clear: Being "dumbed down" is just another term for making a game simpler, usually to make the game more accessible to console folk. 

Newfie is arguing that being "dumbed down" is another term for it being crap because of a console, which is just jumping to conclusions. Being dumbed down doesn't necessarily mean that it's a crap game.

Even in Mikael's post, he states this:



> Sure, they might be decent games on their own, but really, you can't honestly say they are more or at least equally as complex as earlier games.



Now let's try to argue the same thing.


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## Ishnuvalok (Oct 7, 2009)

Furlop said:


> I don't think Newfie understands what a game being "dumbed down" means, leading to two different people arguing two different things.
> 
> Just to make things clear: Being "dumbed down" is just another term for making a game simpler, usually to make the game more accessible to console folk.
> 
> ...



Thank you for pointing this out. You get a cookie


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## lilEmber (Oct 7, 2009)

Same conclusion, for every one game "dumbed down" (without any proof it's due to consoles) for consoles I can list two that aren't. Correlation does not imply causation.

Anyway, I can't play or livestream as promised due to my videocard deciding it was time to die. RMA away.


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## Mikael Grizzly (Oct 7, 2009)

Bokracroc said:


> Says the poster who's a Moderator at NMA.
> F3 was dumbed down because of Bethesda.



Correction: Administrator, of NMA and The Vault. 

Bethesda is irrelevant, the quality of the game counts. And that quality is sorely lacking, as its a far dumber game than its predecessors.


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## Shireton (Oct 7, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> No, but that is what you (and him in defense of you) are implying.
> Proof is in the pudding, you said it would be dumbed down but instead Dragon Rising is a pure accomplishment that far succeeds its predecessors. <3


Dragon Rising far succeeds OFP? Surely you jest. This game is pretty bad, from what I've played now. It ran absolutely great,  I had it at 1600x1200, with AA and AF, and all settings on High. But graphics and performance don't simply make the game good. Dirt flies up if you shoot a body on the ground, which is a small thing to complain about, but it still bugs me, especially because it didn't happen in the original, which was a lot older. If enough grenades explode in a building, half of the roof magically disappears, with holes in the wall and lots of smoke starts coming out of the house. Instantly. Last I checked, 2-3 grenades don't do that. The game's menus are a little bothersome because every time you click on a button, there's 4 seconds of annoying animation. Running makes your arms move ridiculously fast, but you still go really slow. Something about the crosshair seems off, it's really wide. You can't look at your feet, which you could do in the first, and you don't get a third person view, which you did in the first. People's heads can be "blown off" by grenades, by which I mean the head disappears, and there's a little bit of red where their neck is. The HDR made it so when I went over a hill it turned from an evening look to night, with stars actually coming out in the sky. Then if I look down at the ground it turns evening again. I feel like I can't do shit, and my stupid squadmates do all the work, because I can't see anything. Foliage blocks most of my view for me, but not the AI, which can magically see through it all. I shot a squadmate from 4 feet away with the pistol, in the head, and I fucking missed. The pistol is entirely useless. When I DID hit him in the head with the pistol, he just said "DAAAYM", and stood there. Maybe a shot in the head won't always KILL you, but I don't think you'll just be standing there if you do.  Dead bodies don't have any blood or anything on them unless you're standing RIGHT there next to them when you kill them, and it disappears mighty quick. I've read people lauding the smoke online, and I have to say, it's nothing special at all. It's just smoke, like in any other game. It takes at least 5 fucking seconds to go prone, while you're getting fucked up from all the enemies you can't see. Honestly, it's clear that the people who made the original OFP had nothing to do with this, because it feels nothing like it, instead like a cheap modern imitator. I had far more fun with OFP, despite the bad graphics, ridiculous voices, and bugs/glitches. Save your money for Borderlands


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## lilEmber (Oct 7, 2009)

Shireton said:


> Dragon Rising far succeeds OFP? Surely you jest. This game is pretty bad, from what I've played now. It ran absolutely great,  I had it at 1600x1200, with AA and AF, and all settings on High. But graphics and performance don't simply make the game good. Dirt flies up if you shoot a body on the ground, which is a small thing to complain about, but it still bugs me, especially because it didn't happen in the original, which was a lot older. If enough grenades explode in a building, half of the roof magically disappears, with holes in the wall and lots of smoke starts coming out of the house. Instantly. Last I checked, 2-3 grenades don't do that. The game's menus are a little bothersome because every time you click on a button, there's 4 seconds of annoying animation. Running makes your arms move ridiculously fast, but you still go really slow. Something about the crosshair seems off, it's really wide. You can't look at your feet, which you could do in the first, and you don't get a third person view, which you did in the first. People's heads can be "blown off" by grenades, by which I mean the head disappears, and there's a little bit of red where their neck is. The HDR made it so when I went over a hill it turned from an evening look to night, with stars actually coming out in the sky. Then if I look down at the ground it turns evening again. I feel like I can't do shit, and my stupid squadmates do all the work, because I can't see anything. Foliage blocks most of my view for me, but not the AI, which can magically see through it all. I shot a squadmate from 4 feet away with the pistol, in the head, and I fucking missed. The pistol is entirely useless. When I DID hit him in the head with the pistol, he just said "DAAAYM", and stood there. Maybe a shot in the head won't always KILL you, but I don't think you'll just be standing there if you do.  Dead bodies don't have any blood or anything on them unless you're standing RIGHT there next to them when you kill them, and it disappears mighty quick. I've read people lauding the smoke online, and I have to say, it's nothing special at all. It's just smoke, like in any other game. It takes at least 5 fucking seconds to go prone, while you're getting fucked up from all the enemies you can't see. Honestly, it's clear that the people who made the original OFP had nothing to do with this, because it feels nothing like it, instead like a cheap modern imitator. I had far more fun with OFP, despite the bad graphics, ridiculous voices, and bugs/glitches. Save your money for Borderlands



Sorry you're having so many problems, but I assure you that everything you're complaining about is actually a good thing. You should stick to twitch-finger shooters like halo or cod if you think anything in this game is unrealistic. Other than the M134's accuracy there's nothing I've had issues with thus far.

Looks to me like you haven't actually played the game at all. No worries, my videocard will be in the mail for RMA tomorrow so I'd estimate about one to two weeks before I get it back, then I'll livestream it and show you how wrong you actually are. To go prone, for one, wasn't four seconds. Either you're grossly over exaggerating or you've never tried to go prone with a rifle in-hand before. OFP was garbage compared to ARMA, which is garbage compared to ARMA2, which is more realistic in some ways, but really bad in other ways (especially some bugs and performance issues) compared to Dragon Rising.

Also "four feet away" in-game might actually be 25-50 meters, are you sure? Use the range finder and tell me exactly how far away the object was? Have you ever fired a handgun because I assure you their range isn't much further than 50 meters and even that takes a pretty decent marksman to pull off. In games it's hard to get proper ballistic tables when "four feet" actually is 20 meters.

In ARMA2 I had a lot of issues with AI seeing through foliage, in Dragon Rising there hasn't been a single case of such shannagans. They'll suppress through the trees and grass if they've spotted you, but they won't spot you instantly through it and they won't automatically hit you if they're suppressing either. Also I haven't had a single case where a headshot didn't kill somebody, myself included.

The people who made the original flashpoint made arma and arma2, both games have every single issue you've listed times ten. In fact, a handgun in both games is 100% useless.


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## Darkwing (Oct 7, 2009)

Shireton said:


> The 360 isn't getting a demo, from what I've read, only the PC.





Olaunn said:


> I'm pretty sure the mission editor in the PC version has been taken out of the console version. That really sucks because I love setting up my own war scenarios. I bet they also tweaked down the gore engine to be more compatible with console graphics. With that in mind, hell maybe a few vehicles and weapons were scratched out too. I guess I'll find out when I purchase the game today.



Hah, +1 for PC, 0 for Consoles.


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## Shireton (Oct 7, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Sorry you're having so many problems, but I assure you that everything you're complaining about is actually a good thing. You should stick to twitch-finger shooters like halo or cod if you think anything in this game is unrealistic. Other than the M134's accuracy there's nothing I've had issues with thus far.
> 
> Looks to me like you haven't actually played the game at all. No worries, my videocard will be in the mail for RMA tomorrow so I'd estimate about one to two weeks before I get it back, then I'll livestream it and show you how wrong you actually are. To go prone, for one, wasn't four seconds. Either you're grossly over exaggerating or you've never tried to go prone with a rifle in-hand before. OFP was garbage compared to ARMA, which is garbage compared to ARMA2, which is more realistic in some ways, but really bad in other ways (especially some bugs and performance issues) compared to Dragon Rising.
> 
> ...


20 meters? Bullshit. I got one hit out of seven, from as close as I could get to a squadmate without him running away. Screenshot so you can't say I'm 20 fucking meters from him : 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Everything I complained about is a good thing?
How is dirt flying up from the ground, completely ignoring a body, a good thing?
What about two or three grenades making a house suddenly have chunks of it instantly disappear?
Animations in the game's menu's taking up almost 5 seconds every time you click on a button?
Going prone does indeed take four seconds, sorry.
I've ran with a pistol before, and unlike in the game, it doesn't flail around ridiculously like in OFP2.
Removing the option of a third person view is a good thing? And removing the ability to shoot yourself in the foot? That's no fun 
You mentioned gore, but despite launching grenades into people, all I've seen is heads disappearing, maybe I'm just doing it wrong though.
ArmA 2 is far more buggy than ArmA 1, you clearly haven't played it fully patched. ArmA 2 is a buggy mess compared to ArmA 1, it's far from making ArmA 1 garbage. 
"both games have every single issue you've listed times ten" Did you even read all of my post? I mentioned features on OFP, ArmA 1 , and ArmA 2 that aren't in OFP2 at all, having a third person view isn't an issue, and I could hit stuff with the pistol.


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## Kaamos (Oct 7, 2009)

Hey, take a screenshot of the gore. I wanna see what it's like.


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## Shireton (Oct 7, 2009)

Kaamos said:


> Hey, take a screenshot of the gore. I wanna see what it's like.



Me too, unless I'm finally able to do it myself, in which case I'll be happy to post


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## lilEmber (Oct 7, 2009)

Shireton said:


> 20 meters? Bullshit. I got one hit out of seven, from as close as I could get to a squadmate without him running away. Screenshot so you can't say I'm 20 fucking meters from him : IMAGE


Well, seeing as you're not in iron sights for one, and that at twice that range I can effectivly snipe with any of the handguns in the game I'm going out on a leg here and saying that your problems aren't real.

Also if that man is 1.7 meters tall you're about ten meters away. That's 1/5th the maximum range of that weapon.




> Everything I complained about is a good thing?


Yes.


> How is dirt flying up from the ground, completely ignoring a body, a good thing?


That's called blood, unless you need color correction or you (as apparent from above) can't shoot and are actually hitting the ground.


> What about two or three grenades making a house suddenly have chunks of it instantly disappear?


A 40mm HE grenade can blow a wooden house apart. A 40mm HEDP grenade can blow apart concrete houses with ease. A hand grenade cannot (maybe fence and some wood), and I have yet to see such things from a hand grenade in the game.


> Animations in the game's menu's taking up almost 5 seconds every time you click on a button?


Now you're nit-picking about nothing but the generic frothing at the mouth, gotta play it now attitude most (bad excuses) for gamers have. The game's menu's are actually awesome, along with the music it's art.


> Going prone does indeed take four seconds, sorry.


Video proof, I'm just going to say your computer's framrate being 10 might be the issue here because it took me less than a second to go prone from crouching or standing, and even less than that while sprinting into a drop.


> I've ran with a pistol before, and unlike in the game, it doesn't flail around ridiculously like in OFP2.


Sure you have. And I'm also sure you know the definition of flailing, when in-fact they had -real- military personal do all the animations 1:1. lol.


> Removing the option of a third person view is a good thing? And removing the ability to shoot yourself in the foot? That's no fun


Shooting yourself in the foot isn't in any game.
3rd person removes the realism, though I'd like to have seen the ability to move the camera independent from the body 3rd person allows too much bull in the game. Why expose yourself when you can camp corners. Why use tactics when you can look above and around objects without the enemy ever seeing you. That's not realistic, and online that's incredibly cheap.


> You mentioned gore, but despite launching grenades into people, all I've seen is heads disappearing, maybe I'm just doing it wrong though.


I've had holes in people, arms and legs decapitating at different points, blood splash onto my cloths and hands from the enemy and myself. I've put holes in people's heads with sniper rounds, and etc. Perhaps again it's settings, or possible hardware complications. Or perhaps you're just missing something.


> ArmA 2 is far more buggy than ArmA 1, you clearly haven't played it fully patched. ArmA 2 is a buggy mess compared to ArmA 1, it's far from making ArmA 1 garbage.


Arma1 is outdated garbage and it is buggy. Arma 2 is buggier, yes, but not by much. When I play on other maps besides chernarussia(sp) in arma 2 almost every bug is gone. It's something to do with the tree's, not the game.


> having a third person view isn't an issue


because lets face it, the only way you could ever win online or even against the AI was to camp those corners.


> and I could hit stuff with the pistol.


Now I know you're full of shit. I've hit people at 3200 meters with the KSVK in ARMA2 and I've had more problems with the range and accuracy of the pistols in that game than any other problems I've encountered with anything in either arma/arma2 entirely. It's easier to just use my bolt-action rifle in close quarters. The sights are also messed up.


*Edit:*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6UkmGTNY_8
Shows that prone is indeed under a second.
At 1:51 shows giblits of gore.

*Edit 2:*
Screenshot of somebody's head blown open in the back.


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## Shireton (Oct 8, 2009)

Something seems quite wrong, then, because I blew someone up with C4, and he was lying on the ground with just his head blown off. Now that I've seen that video, and that screenshot, it's become clear to me that something is seriously wrong.


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## Shireton (Oct 8, 2009)

Also, I forgot to mention, being able to look at your feet (and arms) in OFP did have legitimate use. You had to look at your body and see what parts of you were fucked up from getting shot at.


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## Neybulot (Oct 8, 2009)

Shireton said:


> The 360 isn't getting a demo, from what I've read, only the PC.



Yeah, I saw. It was supposed to be a pre-release demo but didn't happen. The PC demo was even delayed until after release.

So yeah, I'm stuck renting it. My PC specs aren't even the minimum for it. Stupid dual-core and stupid economy. :<


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## Kaamos (Oct 8, 2009)

Shireton said:


> Also, I forgot to mention, being able to look at your feet (and arms) in OFP did have legitimate use. You had to look at your body and see what parts of you were fucked up from getting shot at.



I hate it when you can't see you body when you look down. I mean, it doesn't mean much in other games, but still it just makes you feel like a floating camera with arms when there's nothing there.


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## Shireton (Oct 8, 2009)

Well, it's not entirely like you're floating, but only because you can't look straight down, it stops you a bit before. You also can't look straight up. It still seems off though.


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## lilEmber (Oct 8, 2009)

Shireton said:


> Also, I forgot to mention, being able to look at your feet (and arms) in OFP did have legitimate use. You had to look at your body and see what parts of you were fucked up from getting shot at.


This was true, and that's probably one of only a handful of things I would of changed. However you can tell what parts of your body are injured with the hud, and that comes in handy a lot I've found.

Holding ALT to move only your head and double tapping Ctrl to lower your weapon was always something I loved being able to do.


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## Kaamos (Oct 8, 2009)

Shireton said:


> Well, it's not entirely like you're floating, but only because you can't look straight down, it stops you a bit before. You also can't look straight up. It still seems off though.



I mean how you can't look down and see your body in most FPS games in general, not just the game you and Newf were talking about.


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## lilEmber (Oct 8, 2009)

Kaamos said:


> I mean how you can't look down and see your body in most FPS games in general, not just the game you and Newf were talking about.



Yeah that is pretty lame. I also have a pet-peeve with not being able to see your weapons when they're holstered/slinged on your body. SOCOM was a godsend in those dark times when games thought "HURR DURRR HURF-DURP WE CAN HOLD MORE bEcAUSE ITS NOT ACTUALLLLY ThaR". :\


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## Shireton (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, it was a cool feature. You can't see what parts of your body are injured in Hardcore mode because you don't get the hud, meaning you're fucked.


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## Olaunn (Oct 8, 2009)

Dammit! No store had the game stocked so I'm gonna have to wait awhile before I play the game and give you munchkins an in depth taste of my reliable and talented criticism ability. (sarcasm)


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## lilEmber (Oct 8, 2009)

Shireton said:


> Yeah, it was a cool feature. You can't see what parts of your body are injured in Hardcore mode because you don't get the hud, meaning you're fucked.



Yeah that's true, I really hope it's put into the game. Along with the M134 getting an accuracy and damage boost. Seriously it's nothing compared to the real-deal.


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## Shireton (Oct 8, 2009)

The campaign doesn't seem to really have much vehicle combat, it's almost all infantry. And you can't fly planes at all, strangely. The game feels a lot more like a modern Delta Force 2 than OFP. Something very disappointing about the game is that you can't have more than 63 "entities" at once. It might not sound too small at first, but it really adds up in the editor. Strangely, the game runs just fine with 63 entities, so I don't see why it's a hardcoded limit, since it seems like more than that could easily run just fine, like in ArmA 1 and 2, and even the original OFP. I don't think it's because the game has a console version too, because the original OFP could support way more than 63 people at once, too, even on the console version. For example, this awesome video, from the X-Box version of the game, there's so many soldiers running around, (See the video here), but it can't be done in OFP2. I think I prefer ArmA 1 and 2 over this, even though they're full of bugs, they're getting better and better with each patch, and I have a lot more fun with them. They have a much larger scale than this, and even with bugs and glitches, they don't honestly bother me, they give the game some charm. It's not like Fallout 3's horrible bugs and glitches, crashing all the time and whatnot. Not that Fallout 3 isn't great too


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## Bokracroc (Oct 8, 2009)

Shireton said:


> The campaign doesn't seem to really have much vehicle combat, it's almost all infantry. And you can't fly planes at all, strangely. The game feels a lot more like a modern Delta Force 2 than OFP. Something very disappointing about the game is that you can't have more than 63 "entities" at once. It might not sound too small at first, but it really adds up in the editor. Strangely, the game runs just fine with 63 entities, so I don't see why it's a hardcoded limit, since it seems like more than that could easily run just fine, like in ArmA 1 and 2, and even the original OFP. I don't think it's because the game has a console version too, because the original OFP could support way more than 63 people at once, too, even on the console version. For example, this awesome video, from the X-Box version of the game, there's so many soldiers running around, (See the video here), but it can't be done in OFP2. I think I prefer ArmA 1 and 2 over this, even though they're full of bugs, they're getting better and better with each patch, and I have a lot more fun with them. They have a much larger scale than this, and even with bugs and glitches, they don't honestly bother me, they give the game some charm. It's not like Fallout 3's horrible bugs and glitches, crashing all the time and whatnot. Not that Fallout 3 isn't great too


God dammit. *Paragraphs*, use them. 
http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/paragraphs.html


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## Shireton (Oct 9, 2009)

It's a bad habit of mine to do giant blocks of text, sorry.


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