# Open letter to you boss about working in Second Life.



## Axelfox (Mar 18, 2010)

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/workinginworld/blog/2009/08/19/open-letter-to-your-boss

Last week, I had the great pleasure of attending several sessions in the business track at the Second Life Community Convention (SLCC). One of the most interesting panels, entitled, â€œEnterprise and Virtual Worlds: The Value Proposition,â€ happened on Saturday morning. The entire room joined in on a lively conversation about how to address our collective bosses' common misconceptions about Second Life and convince them that itâ€™s not a game or a place filled with inappropriate content, but a powerful virtual workspace and collaboration platform.

Yes, we understand your need, as a virtual world and Second Life champion within your organization, to have more ammo to counter some of these arguments. In addition to the new Second Life Work microsite, focused exclusively on enterprises and governments in Second Life, we havet 5 case studies that showcase how IBM, NOAA, Navy, CIGNA, and Intel are benefiting from working inworld today, I've also crafted an open letter to your manager that tackles these misperception issues head on and helps to dispel the â€œfear factorâ€ about Second Life.

-----------------------cut/paste-----------------------

Hello <insert your manager's name here>,

Yesterday, when I mentioned that we should explore how working in Second Life can benefit us as a collaboration, learning, recruiting, and marketing tool, you raised several concerns that many enterprises and government organizations have about Second Life. I would like to share with you more information about how Second Life is a safe, secure, and powerful business tool we should consider using.

Second Life Solves Real Business Problems: Companies are using Second Life with good reason. With the drastic reduction to our travel budgets, and our teams scattered across many different locations, we need to look at more powerful collaboration technologies. Teleconference calls, video conferences, and web-based presentation sharing technologies are important, but they canâ€™t do what Second Life can. In fact, the Wall Street Journal published a story today on â€œThe Second Chance for Second Life,â€ focused on how large enterprises are working in Second Life and realizing tremendous ROI. I believe that we can yield a very positive return on our Second Life investment, as these companies have.

We Can Keep our Workspace and Data Secure: If we decide to get a private region, then we have complete control over who enters our area by tightly managing our access list. And, we can also keep our data secure. If youâ€™re worried about putting our data on Second Life servers, then we can stream our presentations and content into Second Life instead of placing the data directly in the workspace. And, if we want to put a life-size prototype of our super-secret product in Second Life, then there are many creative ways we implement extra layers of security such as making it invisible unless weâ€™re in the room. And, you might not know that nearly every branch of the U.S. military is using Second Life in some capacity and if they are comfortable working in Second Life, then that should ease our minds considerably. You can also check out articles on security in the Second Life KnowledgeBase: overview of Second Life security, voice chat privacy, configuring your corporate firewall for Second Life access, and how to create a secure space for a meeting

Second Life is the De Facto Leader in Virtual Worlds: There are several virtual world companies that are creating solutions for enterprises , but Second Life is the safest and best choice. Second Life is not only one of the oldest virtual worlds, originally launched in 2003, but itâ€™s also the largest, most successful, profitable, stable, and growing at an impressive clip.

Roughly 20% of the Fortune 1000s are Working in Second Life Today: Second Life is not a game. Large, multi-national organizations such as Manpower, Microsoft, Amazon, and many others, are all working in Second Life right nowâ€”holding meetings or events, conducting training, creating simulations and prototypes, recruiting, marketing, and selling products or services. There are currently 5 case studies on the new Second Life Work microsite that detail how these companies have saved money, increased revenue, enhanced innovation, and raised brand awareness. You'll also find some great recent articles in the news section of the microsite.

The Adult Content is Contained: Second Life is a 3D technology platform that can accommodate all kinds of activitiesâ€”for both work and play. Yes, there is some sexual content in Second Life, just as there is on the Internet or in any major city, but that doesnâ€™t mean that it will inhibit our professional virtual lives or impact our reputation. In fact, Linden Lab has recently taken steps to move Adult content from the mainland to a separate continent and to filter Adult search results. These initiatives mean that those who wish to avoid Adult content in Second Life can do so just as easily as they can on the Internet at large.

Letâ€™s Start Small and Build on Our Success: The good news is that getting started in Second Life is relatively inexpensive. We can start by renting space and when weâ€™re ready, we can purchase our own private or public region for about the cost of a few days' rental of a real world meeting room. Then, we can purchase content already available from many sources in Second Life or get help from a Solution Provider to create a customized, branded space. Based on what we typically spend on travel in a given month, weâ€™ll recoup our costs many times over very quickly. I have some ideas about how we can use the space to work on our current and upcoming initiatives.  Once we get a pilot project started in Second Life, I have the feeling that weâ€™ll find additional ways that we can use our 3D work environment.

Defining our Success Metrics is Critical: I understand that every dollar that we spend needs to quantifiably benefit our business. As you can imagine, there are different things that we can measure to track our success in Second Life. For example, if we decide to produce a virtual event, then itâ€™s easy to calculate cost and carbon emission savings. In fact, ThinkBalm, an industry analyst firm, recently published a report about the Business Value of Virtual Worlds that has many examples of what different organizations have used as metrics. Take a look and then letâ€™s discuss how we can define our own metrics of success.

I hope that Iâ€™ve addressed your primary concerns about working in Second Life, but Iâ€™m sure that you have plenty of questions. Feel free to explore the new Second Life Work microsite and then letâ€™s contact the team at Linden Lab, the makers of Second Life, and find out how we can start working inworld, too.

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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 18, 2010)

If I ran a business, I'd fire your ass for even suggesting something so stupid.


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## Axelfox (Mar 18, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> If I ran a business, I'd fire your ass for even suggesting something so stupid.



The late Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. once wrote that that Internet reminded him of the dorks he knew when he was younger with their HAM radios, desperately alone in their basements talking to strangers in Mexico City


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 18, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> The late Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. once wrote that that Internet reminded him of the dorks he knew when he was younger with their HAM radios, desperately alone in their basements talking to strangers in Mexico City



Whereas the radio was a communications tool with great potential and little downside, SL caters to stuff like this (NSFW).  I'd refuse to associate my company with software where a significant user base is using it for sexual endeavors.  Conference calls work just fine and are infinitely more professional than personalized avatars in a virtual space.


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## LizardKing (Mar 18, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> itâ€™s not a game or a place filled with inappropriate content, but a powerful virtual workspace and collaboration platform.



*XD*


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## Axelfox (Mar 18, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Whereas the radio was a communications tool with great potential and little downside, SL caters to stuff like this (NSFW).  I'd refuse to associate my company with software where a significant user base is using it for sexual endeavors.  Conference calls work just fine and are infinitely more professional than personalized avatars in a virtual space.



Well i know both the US Army and IBM are using it. GO ARMY!


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## Aden (Mar 18, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> itâ€™s not a game or a place filled with inappropriate content, but a powerful virtual workspace and collaboration platform.



So just for clarification, do you actually believe this? Or is it one of those things where you don't actually believe it but you act like it for the sake of getting your boss to let you do stuff


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## Runefox (Mar 18, 2010)

Seriously? Dude. You don't need to download hundreds of megs of crappy resources, spend countless CPU cycles "simulating" it all, nor equip your workplace PC's with video cards just to collaborate. There's this thing called IM. Hell, if you weren't web/customer-facing with the need for IM, you can even set up your own XMPP server and set up a corporate intranet-based IM system, or an internal IRC.

There is not now, nor will there ever be, a need for Second Life in the workplace. The only reason any businesses promote themselves on SL at all is for public-facing PR crap because they heard at one point that a lot of people use SL. It's like having a live chat service on a website.


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## Axelfox (Mar 18, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Seriously? Dude. You don't need to download hundreds of megs of crappy resources, spend countless CPU cycles "simulating" it all, nor equip your workplace PC's with video cards just to collaborate. There's this thing called IM. Hell, if you weren't web/customer-facing with the need for IM, you can even set up your own XMPP server and set up a corporate intranet-based IM system, or an internal IRC.
> 
> There is not now, nor will there ever be, a need for Second Life in the workplace. The only reason any businesses promote themselves on SL at all is for public-facing PR crap because they heard at one point that a lot of people use SL. It's like having a live chat service on a website.



Even a university i used to go to is on it.

http://www.hawaii.edu/secondlife/


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## Teco (Mar 18, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> If I ran a business, I'd fire your ass for even suggesting something so stupid.



This, over, and over, and over. I would make it so you never got a job, anywhere, ever.

The only reason I could ever see a professional business use SL, is if the president way some pedo/manwithchildlikemind loved the allure of virtual hookers and flying phallus and was like. "OH LOL, I CAN RUN MY BUSINESS LIKE THIS HURR HURR"

What the fuck. The only reason a business uses SL is to push products at you and the rest of the inferior 'sheep-ple' race.


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## Runefox (Mar 18, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Even a university i used to go to is on it.
> 
> http://www.hawaii.edu/secondlife/



Yes I realize, but you also must realize that that is a PR thing. Like a website. It serves no other purpose.

The only difference between Second Life and any other form of IM or chat is the fact that Second Life requires an awful lot of resources and bandwidth to run where an IRC server or XMPP server or hell, MSN clients do not.


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## Teco (Mar 18, 2010)

I swear to god indian tech support goes Second Life....


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## Aden (Mar 18, 2010)

Aden said:


> So just for clarification, do you actually believe this? Or is it one of those things where you don't actually believe it but you act like it for the sake of getting your boss to let you do stuff



I guess it's the former then

>:1



Axelfox said:


> Even a university i used to go to is on it.
> 
> http://www.hawaii.edu/secondlife/



Yeah, my university is on it too. Because some higher-ups got wind that this is what the kids are into nowadays, so it might attract other people to the school. It really serves no other merit.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 18, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Well i know both the US Army and IBM are using it. GO ARMY!



And how much do you think the US Army actually uses that shit for recruiting?  Or how relevant it is in the recruiting process?  I'd be shocked if it came in at more than 2% of their enlisting rate.  Fact of the matter is, if someone's going to be sent to another country to die, most people would actually like to talk to a real person about it than a computer simulation.


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## Lobar (Mar 19, 2010)

Hey boss I was thinking instead of getting up from our desks and walking 100ft to the boardroom for our meeting that we could use this to have a virtual meeting instead.  The only downside is that we might get interrupted by a flock of giant flying singing penises.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

after reading this
I would fire your ass as other companies only ADVERTISE, in SL

Universities I can hardly see any useage at all for them to even have an area in SL

you are 32
an equivalent of a Hooker on SL called an "ESCORT"
A FAIL DJ
had a FAIL CLUB

GET OFF SECOND LIFE AND CONCENTRATE ON YOUR FIRST


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## Lobar (Mar 19, 2010)

Crysix Corps said:


> you are 32
> an equivalent of a Hooker on SL called an "ESCORT"



whoa wait a minute

people seriously pay the OP in fake money for fake sex?


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> whoa wait a minute
> 
> people seriously pay the OP in fake money for fake sex?



Kinda puts everything in perspective, doesn't it?

Furrys bro.  SL Furrys.


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## FluffMouse (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> whoa wait a minute
> 
> people seriously pay the OP in fake money for fake sex?


Fake real money for fake sex.


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## Attaman (Mar 19, 2010)

SugarMental said:


> Fake real money for fake sex.



But take out the fake.  SL money can technically become RL money.  OP has been fond of bragging of such.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> whoa wait a minute
> 
> people seriously pay the OP in fake money for fake sex?


OP IS A 7 DOLLA HOOKA

THATS PER HOUR


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## Garreth (Mar 19, 2010)

Why am I filled with so much hate and sadness whenever I read one of Axel's threads


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Garreth said:


> Why am I filled with so much hate and sadness whenever I read one of Axel's threads


a fine example of when Second Life destroys someone's First life if not carefully moderated


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## Spawtsie Paws (Mar 19, 2010)

Is this serious?


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Crysix Corps said:


> a fine example of when Second Life destroys someone's First life if not carefully moderated



No U! You can't tell me what to do. 

 I have friends in it. FYIAF.


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## Lobar (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> I have friends in it. FYIAF.



"fuck you i'm a failure"?


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> "fuck you i'm a failure"?



No. F*** you i'm a Fox. One ALT of mine is a Dragon.

And my friends list has 100 people in it.


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> No U! You can't tell me what to do.
> 
> I have friends in it. FYIAF.


You are so fucking painful. Someone needs to Ol' Yeller you.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> No U! You can't tell me what to do.
> 
> I have friends in it. FYIAF.


WEAAAAAK COME BACK BOY

yea and so do I, the main difference is your friends are your CUSTOMERS and I talk to mines not only on SL


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Crysix Corps said:


> WEAAAAAK COME BACK BOY
> 
> yea and so do I, the main difference is your friends are your CUSTOMERS and I talk to mines not only on SL


Hey be easy on him, I'm sure he has many friends IRL! Oh wait he's 32 and fucking posts on FAF and whores himself out on SL with a young looking avatar. Yeeaaaaaahhh.....


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Looks like i can also make real money from SL.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/07/AR2010030703524.html?hpid=topnews

Second Life's virtual money can become real-life cash


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## Takun (Mar 19, 2010)

> More than 50 businesses in the virtual world made more than $100,000 each last year.



Oh man 50 whole businesses. .o.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Looks like i can also make real money from SL.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/07/AR2010030703524.html?hpid=topnews
> 
> Second Life's virtual money can become real-life cash


Yea they tell you that from the start
its why you are a Virtual Hooker


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

I always wonder if people like him look back on their life when they are in their 60's and 70's and ponder if they made the right choices in life and lived it to their fullest. I assume no, and then they log back into whatever SL-ish program is popular at the time and go back to being a sexy 22 year old vixen with tits larger then their head.


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## Lobar (Mar 19, 2010)

Crysix Corps said:


> Yea they tell you that from the start
> its why you are a Virtual Hooker



well you have to give him some credit

through second life he has managed to successfully market what was an unwanted product

something he couldn't even give away for free before :V


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> I always wonder if people like him look back on their life when they are in their 60's and 70's and ponder if they made the right choices in life and lived it to their fullest. I assume no, and then they log back into whatever SL-ish program is popular at the time and go back to being a sexy 22 year old vixen with tits larger then their head.



If you tried to insult me like this in Second Life,then i could AR you then you'd been gone,instead of still on this forum


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> well you have to give him some credit
> 
> through second life he has managed to successfully market what was an unwanted product :V


they still are unwanted product on SL too


Axelfox said:


> If you tried to insult me like this in Second  Life,then i could AR you then you'd been gone,instead of still on this  forum


then how about you leave since WolfeeDark*FAG* told you about this place not being friendly


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> If you tried to insult me like this in Second Life,then i could AR you then you'd been gone,instead of still on this forum


"BAWWWW I CAN MAKE YOU GO AWAY IN "ESCAPE FANTASY LAND-LIFE" BUT HERE I HAVE TO FACE MY PROBLEMS!"

Also yeah, wolfiedarkfag is, well, a fag. I lol'd at his ED article. I wonder if you have one...


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## Lobar (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> If you tried to insult me like this in Second Life,then i could AR you then you'd been gone,instead of still on this forum



And that is why Second Life sucks, because someone like H&K can get AR'd (whatever the fuck that means) for the sake of mollycoddling all of First Life's failures such as yourself.


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> And that is why Second Life sucks, because someone like H&K can get AR'd (whatever the fuck that means) for the sake of mollycoddling all of First Life's failures such as yourself.



It means abuse report.


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> It means abuse report.


How is calling out your failures and logical fallacies "abuse"?


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## Bando (Mar 19, 2010)

Lobar said:


> And that is why Second Life sucks, because someone like H&K can get AR'd (whatever the fuck that means) for the sake of mollycoddling all of First Life's failures such as yourself.



^

sorry guys, was too busy to post earlier because I was out doing work that gave me tangibe results. Also, I had a good face-to-face talk with my good friends. :V


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> How is calling out your failures and logical fallacies "abuse"?



Troll!


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Troll!


Ok seriously are you trolling us because come on now...


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## Runefox (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> If you tried to insult me like this in Second Life,then i could AR you then you'd been gone,instead of still on this forum



In other words, were the world bound by the rules of Second Life, you'd be able to live in happy-joy-joy la-la land with your hundred friends and never have to worry about anyone criticising you or the things you love (far too much) ever again?

Good thing the world doesn't work that way.


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Runefox said:


> In other words, were the world bound by the rules of Second Life, you'd be able to live in happy-joy-joy la-la land with your hundred friends and never have to worry about anyone criticising you or the things you love (far too much) ever again?
> 
> Good thing the world doesn't work that way.


But you could hurt his 12-year-old-in-32-year-old's-body's feelings =[


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> Ok seriously are you trolling us because come on now...



No, you're the troll,because your insulting.


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## Bando (Mar 19, 2010)

*headdesk*


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> No, you're the troll,because your insulting.


AAAnnnd we continue spiraling down this horrid mess...

Do you even _know_ what a troll even is? Someone who disagrees with you is not a troll.


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## Bando (Mar 19, 2010)

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Troll

the more you know...


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Heckler & Koch said:


> I think I love you.


LIES


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

I... don't get this.
You got the last SL thread closed, and within a day, you open up a new one?
Spewing the same random crap as before? Irrelevant links, incoherent jafflewaffle, and whatnot?

I love SecondLife to bits, because of the flexible platform it is, especially for content creation (And money, to a certain degree- which I don't have to whore myself out for seven eBux an hour to get, HOW ABOUT THAT! :V), but people like you make me rage so hard, oh god so hard, that it hurts.

You're blemishing SL, and making it look like more of a lingering hole than it is. (It is a hole, most of it, but still...). You're being a general pest, you're posting incoherently (Advocating SL as a serious, work-oriented platform, while being a digital prostitute and managing a (Shitty) digital nightclub offering gratiduous amounts of digital YIFF YIFF YIFF), and you're making me want to hurt myself for using the same platform as you.

Just, please please please, stop posting, and... gee, work yourself out. Might even want to get off SL for a bit, go outside, clear your head. So you'll realize just how excessive your oozing amounts of fail have become. :V


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> I... don't get this.
> You got the last SL thread closed, and within a day, you open up a new one?
> Spewing the same random crap as before? Irrelevant links, incoherent jafflewaffle, and whatnot?
> 
> ...


Also remember he's 32.

I'm seriously beginning to think this is some sort of super-troll. I can't fathom someone being as stupid as the OP.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> I... don't get this.
> You got the last SL thread closed, and within a day, you open up a new one?
> Spewing the same random crap as before? Irrelevant links, incoherent jafflewaffle, and whatnot?
> 
> ...


now I love you for this post


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Crysix Corps said:


> now I love you for this post


 

<3

I wonder if it's too late for us to turn this thread into something more productive, lest it'll get shot in the kneecaps and curbstomped by an admin?

As a response to the actual TOPIC at hand; DNB (Den Norske Sentralbanken (The Norwegian Centralbank)) had a SL project a year or so back, don't quote me on that as it's most likely a tidbit off. They invested, I believe it might have been around 2 000 000 NOK in it - or, at the time being, about 320 000 USD, into making, advocating, and keeping up a sim to be used as a presentation of their services and history, to the common public.

A few months later, said prim had about four unique visitors, per day. :V

Come to think of it, I HOPE i haven't recalled that amount correctly, I just don't get where all the money the dumb larger companies disappear to, after having been funneled onto the grid. SL, quite simply, doesn't host enough people to make it a profitable marketing arena like, for instance, MySpace or Facebook might. As for meetings and intern organization... there's better solutions.


And there's not much to tell, Koch dear, just the same copypasta links and such. :>


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> <3
> 
> I wonder if it's too late for us to turn this thread into something more productive, lest it'll get shot in the kneecaps and curbstomped by an admin?
> 
> ...



Yea I notice lots of corporate places and University sims are bare, thus a massive waste of money in my book, but those that do Myspace/Facebook tend to do better.


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> <3
> 
> I wonder if it's too late for us to turn this thread into something more productive, lest it'll get shot in the kneecaps and curbstomped by an admin?
> 
> ...



Well obviously the companies that failed,failed because they didn't reach out and market themselves to the residents by using ad boards and whatnot.


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Mmhm.

My university does have two sims, for the time being, as well. 
Frequenting them is a total nightmare - they're VERY shoddily built, filled with freebies, and seems to serve no purpose at all, whatsoever. I've actually been trying to hunt down whoever is working on the project, and offer to PAY them to let me fix it up. 

Though, on second thought, I guess it's just a test project some prof. with her grubby hands a bit too far down the campus' collaterial wallet is goofing around with. Will hopefully die away soon enough. 

Still, what they've made so far, is depressing, given that the university those sims are supposed to represent, is the best in the country. :<


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Well obviously the companies that failed,failed because they didn't reach out and market themselves to the residents by using ad boards and whatnot.


 

TROLL!


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> TROLL!



How can i be a griefer? I belong to a anti-griefer group known as gridwatch that hunts down and reports trolls and griefers.


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## Runefox (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Well obviously the companies that failed,failed because they didn't reach out and market themselves to the residents by using ad boards and whatnot.



So you're saying that companies that fail to penetrate any "markets" in Second Life fail to do so because they lack advertising? The whole point of having Second Life presence is advertising in itself. The only real businesses that I can think of that would actually make any kind of money from Second Life are Second Life-related businesses, which if you want my honest opinion are just silly. But hey, for some people they pay the bills I guess. All the same, *real world* businesses have very little interest (and rightly so) in Second Life as anything more than a marketing tool.

For that matter, I doubt any business wants to convert real money into Lindens, anyway. Nor pay employees to sit on their asses all day greeting furries with giant boobs as they pass by. I mean, really, *who*, exactly, is reaching out to target *that* market?



> How can i be a griefer?


Troll != Griefer.

Troll = Someone seeking to provoke reaction (typically flames), either directly or indirectly.
Griefer = Someone attempting to disrupt general flow of a game or activity.


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> How can i be a griefer? I belong to a anti-griefer group known as gridwatch that hunts down and reports trolls and griefers.


 

TROLL!

And as for you, Rune, you're pretty much dead-on accurate.
Unless you use SL for products aimed at the general populace, you won't succeeed - there's just too bloody few users.

Sure, earning a few bucks that way won't make a killing, but then again, it was never supposed to, either. Most content creators spend the cash they earn, in-world, and those who withdraw the money just look upon it as a beneficial hobby.

Granted, that not being an universal truth, with people like Anshe Chung (Google eet!) being a prime example of the opposite kind.


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## Runefox (Mar 19, 2010)

> Anshe Chung


... Makes me sad. It's a true success story, no doubt, but getting rich by "selling" "land" and "real estate" on Second Life strikes me as incredibly indicative of what some people are willing to pay for virtual items and things that won't exist a decade from now. In some cases literally thousands of dollars up front, with hundreds of dollars per-month upkeep goes into these things, and it's just... I can't even wrap my head around the thought processes that have to go through one's mind to make that a good idea.

Anshe Chung, obviously, did manage to wrap his/her(?!) head around it, however..


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> How can i be a griefer? I belong to a anti-griefer group known as gridwatch that hunts down and reports trolls and griefers.


the grid watch
HA
those guys are failures


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Runefox said:


> ... Makes me sad. It's a true success story, no doubt, but getting rich by "selling" "land" and "real estate" on Second Life strikes me as incredibly indicative of what some people are willing to pay for virtual items and things that won't exist a decade from now. In some cases literally thousands of dollars up front, with hundreds of dollars per-month upkeep goes into these things, and it's just... I can't even wrap my head around the thought processes that have to go through one's mind to make that a good idea.
> 
> Anshe Chung, obviously, did manage to wrap his/her(?!) head around it, however..


 
Hey, a guy's (Gal?)  gotta make a living? :V

Beats pushing drugs on the corner, or living off of Social Security and the society's arse, anyways.


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Runefox said:


> So you're saying that companies that fail to penetrate any "markets" in Second Life fail to do so because they lack advertising? The whole point of having Second Life presence is advertising in itself. The only real businesses that I can think of that would actually make any kind of money from Second Life are Second Life-related businesses, which if you want my honest opinion are just silly. But hey, for some people they pay the bills I guess. All the same, *real world* businesses have very little interest (and rightly so) in Second Life as anything more than a marketing tool.
> 
> For that matter, I doubt any business wants to convert real money into Lindens, anyway. Nor pay employees to sit on their asses all day greeting furries with giant boobs as they pass by. I mean, really, *who*, exactly, is reaching out to target *that* market?
> 
> ...



Well as soon as i rented a spot on one of these boards at a place. 
https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1544410

People started noticing my club,like i said you have to market yourself in it. And BTW,i got rid of the sploder. And griefers really suck,one time one orbited me with something and it caused a script in a collar i have to break,so i had to get a new collar.

One of the worst things IMHO was the openspace mess,because many people left sl because of it. I wish LL would listen to us instead of companies.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Well as soon as i rented a spot on one of these boards at a place.
> https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1544410
> 
> People started noticing my club,like i said you have to market yourself in it. And BTW,i got rid of the sploder. And griefers really suck,one time one orbited me with something and it caused a script in a collar i have to break,so i had to get a new collar.
> ...


advertising for a club is good and all, but if the club rather sucky, advertising wont save it.


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

I spend way too much time on SL as-is (I keep it on, whatever else I might be doing, just like any other chat or IM program.) - I don't need to replace my night-life with it as well. If I (Or, in my dreams, any other sane person) wanted to go partying, getting a can of mountain dew, a bag of nachos, hand lotion, tissues, and an all-nighter in Alex's YIFF YIFF YIFF club would NOT be the way to go.

Or is it just me feeling that way?  :<


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> I spend way too much time on SL as-is (I keep it on, whatever else I might be doing, just like any other chat or IM program.) - I don't need to replace my night-life with it as well. If I (Or, in my dreams, any other sane person) wanted to go partying, getting a can of mountain dew, a bag of nachos, hand lotion, tissues, and an all-nighter in Alex's YIFF YIFF YIFF club would NOT be the way to go.
> 
> Or is it just me feeling that way?  :<


no no, you are sane, no need to go to the Virtual aids club :V


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> I spend way too much time on SL as-is (I keep it on, whatever else I might be doing, just like any other chat or IM program.) - I don't need to replace my night-life with it as well. If I (Or, in my dreams, any other sane person) wanted to go partying, getting a can of mountain dew, a bag of nachos, hand lotion, tissues, and an all-nighter in Alex's YIFF YIFF YIFF club would NOT be the way to go.
> 
> Or is it just me feeling that way?  :<


It's not just you.


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## Foxstar (Mar 19, 2010)

HEY GUYZ, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS THREAD?

Oh look it's the idiot who sells himself in Second Life for money and thinks that it's the new way. Buddy, even Linden Labs doesn't try to push that PR spin at anyone anymore, it's not working and only at it's peak 'worked' half ass.

Guy, you need to get back to Second Life and stop visiting a forum where the users have made quite clear that they do not like you, do not support your ideas and will troll the hell out of you when you post.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Foxstar said:


> HEY GUYZ, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS THREAD?
> 
> Oh look it's the idiot who sells himself in Second Life for money and thinks that it's the new way. Buddy, even Linden Labs doesn't try to push that PR spin at anyone anymore, it's not working and only at it's peak 'worked' half ass.
> 
> Guy, you need to get back to Second Life and stop visiting a forum where the users have made quite clear that they do not like you, do not support your ideas and will troll the hell out of you when you post.


even folks who use SL is making fun of him


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> I spend way too much time on SL as-is (I keep it on, whatever else I might be doing, just like any other chat or IM program.) - I don't need to replace my night-life with it as well. If I (Or, in my dreams, any other sane person) wanted to go partying, getting a can of mountain dew, a bag of nachos, hand lotion, tissues, and an all-nighter in Alex's YIFF YIFF YIFF club would NOT be the way to go.
> 
> Or is it just me feeling that way?  :<



Then why are many places like AnthroXtacy,IYC and a few others have people there?


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> Then why are many places like AnthroXtacy,IYC and a few others have people there?


 
Because of people like you.


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## Mentova (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> Because of people like you.


this


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## Smelge (Mar 19, 2010)

Say, Axel. Have you ever stuck your penis in a real person?

I like to think I'm fairly open-minded. I'm on this forum to start with. But jesus tittyfucking christ. You sell virtual sex and are proud of it? What the fuck? "oh but I make money from it". So fucking what? I'd rather put in an hours work than sink to your level.

Go ahead and argue your points in this thread, but make your responses relevant to the criticism.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Mar 19, 2010)

Hrmm.  I think I'll go back to building my space freighter...


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## Aden (Mar 19, 2010)

God dammit why do I always miss the fun stuff



Axelfox said:


> And my friends list has 100 people in it.



Wow, it's like the middle school measure of worth except applied to a sad, sad virtual life.


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## Carenath (Mar 19, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Whereas the radio was a communications  tool with great potential and little downside, SL caters to stuff like this  (NSFW).  I'd refuse to associate my company with software where a  significant user base is using it for sexual endeavors.  Conference  calls work just fine and are infinitely more professional than  personalized avatars in a virtual space.


This.



Axelfox said:


> No, you're the troll,because your insulting.


Translation: You're a troll because you hurt my feelings by insulting something I care far too much about.



Axelfox said:


> How can i be a griefer? I belong to a anti-griefer group known as gridwatch that hunts down and reports trolls and griefers.


In other words, you go around hugboxing furries that take online shit far to seriously and have persecution and entitlement complexes.

You'll notice furries that try that stuff here, get a slap in the face with a hefty dose of reality, dished out by our many, more worldly members.

You're 32 but you don't act it on the forums, so no one takes you seriously (see: Troll Bait).

You respond to *every* thread you think is insulting with "Troll" "No U" or some other childish retort that most people stopped using outside of the 4th Grade. Grow a thicker skin, this is the internet, you are not entitled to anything here, if someone insults you, deal with it, you don't have the right not to be offended (anywhere).

You have admitted, to being an escort on SecondLife, charging people in-game money to have simulated sex with someone elses avatar, which in itself is your own business, but bawww when people make fun of you for it. Tough, expecting others not to make fun of you for it, just because they consider themselves furries, is childish. Next time, perhaps, you won't feel the need to broadcast such details that the rest of us don't need to know.

The Furry Fandom is not a hugbox or circlejerk group that you can hide away in from regular people that you know would make fun of you. The Furry Fandom is just an umbrella for the group of people that have a common interest in furry animals. It is a very wide group as there are a lot of different people with a lot of different ideas of what they see as furry.

The Furry Fandom does not exist to provide an outlet for your sexual interests and members of that fandom are not obliged to 'tolerate' people who use the fandom as fetish emporium. It is unfortunate that the fandom is abused to that extent by furries with serious entitlement and persecution issues, who would rather cling to a fantasy than seek real human companionship.

FAF does not exist to be a hugbox or circlejerk of "tolerence" from "persecution" and it is not mine, nor any staff members responsibility to babysit you. We will deal with people that out-right harass you but we are not here to protect you from the consequences of your actions. There is a fine line of course, and that is the judgement call of the staff member dealing with it.

You are, the type of furry many wish would leave the fandom and not drag associate with those of us who have a measure of common sense, discretion and a reasonably thick skin in with.

Now.. that being said.. some of the nastier posts in this thread will be deleted. Play nice.

Also, OP, did it occur to you to create an original character, instead of blatently ripping off the writers of Beverly Hills Cop 3?


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## Teco (Mar 19, 2010)

This makes me want to take up hacking. Just because if I ruined axel's second life, I would in a way, end his actual life. It's like nerd murder, in all this poetic justice.

...if someone actually does this and I get blamed...- No wait, I wouldn't care, it would be so worth it.


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## Vaelarsa (Mar 19, 2010)

No.
No.
Motherfucking *no*.

And aren't you an escort on SA?
If I had a job, I would want to keep my (providing I do it, which I don't) pretend whoring as far away from my boss as humanly possible.


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## AshleyAshes (Mar 19, 2010)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> If I ran a business, I'd fire your ass for even suggesting something so stupid.


 
His IRL job is being a janitor at a school, he couldn't even work via SecondLife if they wanted to let him.


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## Runefox (Mar 19, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> His IRL job is being a janitor at a school, he couldn't even work via SecondLife if they wanted to let him.



What if he got a job as a janitor in the school's SL sim? Then he could take his furry escort avatar, set it in a loop for "sweeping" and go off to do other stuff while getting paid for it!

I can sense that his excitement level must go up at the thought of that, but I must remind again that the real world doesn't work that way.


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## AshleyAshes (Mar 19, 2010)

Runefox said:


> What if he got a job as a janitor in the school's SL sim? Then he could take his furry escort avatar, set it in a loop for "sweeping" and go off to do other stuff while getting paid for it!
> 
> I can sense that his excitement level must go up at the thought of that, but I must remind again that the real world doesn't work that way.


 
Then they'd have to hire someone else to clean the real school, realize they were paying two salaries and only one real job was getting done and eliminating him from SL while keeping the guy that replaced him in real life and then he'd have no money and lose his home and have nothing to eat so then he'd have to resort to becomming a real escort to get money but find it's much harder to attract customers without an idealized virtual body to represent himself.

Run on sentance on purpose.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Carenath said:


> Now.. that being said.. some of the nastier posts in this thread will be deleted. Play nice.


couldnt you delete the tread instead, we cant take his moronic thinking specially his views on this place came from Wolfeedark*FAG*


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## Ozriel (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh god No.
No.
NO.

Meaybe I should take up hacking SL to disrupt Office meetings. :V

EDIT: The Dragon Mod Wins a Knight shaped cookie.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 19, 2010)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Oh god No.
> No.
> NO.
> 
> ...


you totally miss me ripping on them


Dragon mod deleted mah post


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## Runefox (Mar 19, 2010)

I'd like to just point out once again that the title "Second Life" isn't to be taken literally nor seriously. Of all the things that I am, I am not a troll; However, I am siding with the "trolls" here because, frankly, basing your life around a virtual chat room and fantasizing about "working" in Second Life as a full-time job is just...

... Sad.

I mean, I don't have a whole lot going for me right now, either (in fact, I don't even have a job nor any income right now, which puts me several rungs below Axel in the real life success bracket), but I'm not crawling into some primitively 3D chat room and pretending that my real life doesn't exist.


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## Ozriel (Mar 19, 2010)

Crysix Corps said:


> you totally miss me ripping on them
> 
> 
> Dragon mod deleted mah post



Aww...


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Carenath said:


> This.
> 
> 
> Translation: You're a troll because you hurt my feelings by insulting something I care far too much about.
> ...



I notice though,if i mention it on furry-furry or furtopia i don't get insulted.

Of course i've been trying to book this guy:http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2107494/ (NSFW) or Furrburger of GYC to DJ.


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Voidrunners said:


> Say, Axel. Have you ever stuck your penis in a real person?
> 
> I like to think I'm fairly open-minded. I'm on this forum to start with. But jesus tittyfucking christ. You sell virtual sex and are proud of it? What the fuck? "oh but I make money from it". So fucking what? I'd rather put in an hours work than sink to your level.
> 
> Go ahead and argue your points in this thread, but make your responses relevant to the criticism.



I had a blowjob once.


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## Kampfisken (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> I had a blowjob once.


 
And now you struggle with a broken, bent-over spine? :<


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Kampfisken said:


> And now you struggle with a broken, bent-over spine? :<



LOL,no i mean with another man.


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## Azure (Mar 19, 2010)

What in the fuck? Seriously? Seriously? You're 32? And you want to be an E-Hooker? DoHOHOHOHOHoHohohohohoh.


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## Foxstar (Mar 19, 2010)

Can we get a lock now?


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## Aden (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> I notice though,if i mention it on furry-furry or furtopia i don't get insulted.
> 
> Of course i've been trying to book this guy:http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2107494/ (NSFW) or Furrburger of GYC to DJ.





Axelfox said:


> I had a blowjob once.



I...

This...

...This makes me too depressed to be mean

:C


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## Anuv (Mar 19, 2010)

SL is an extremely unique, fluid medium. It's more or less the next step in the realm of global interaction and communication. I know that none of this really applies to those (most) of you working in fast food kitchens and all, but it's quickly gaining ground as an established, legitimate workspace for a great variety of companies and applications. It's a shame that most of you are too stupid to realize this.


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## Kangamutt (Mar 19, 2010)

Foxstar said:


> Can we get a lock now?



Seriously. This thread has NOTHING to do with what this subforum is dedicated to. SL is hardly, if not, not even a game at all. This is like the bazillionth thread on it the OP has made, and like any thread by the OP, it ends up locked with nothing of value lost. Also, this particular thread feels more like outright spamming/advertising. No real subject to discuss, just "USE SL FOR BUSINESS MEETINGS!!! TELL YOUR BOSS!!!".
Honestly OP, do you have any other interest besides Second Life?


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## AshleyAshes (Mar 19, 2010)

Axelfox said:


> I notice though,if i mention it on furry-furry or furtopia i don't get insulted.
> 
> Of course i've been trying to book this guy:http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2107494/ (NSFW) or Furrburger of GYC to DJ.


 
1) WHy is it in these threads where you are criticized for your activities in SL, you repeatidly then drop information about things you're trying to do in Second Life?

2) I'm reporting that image for deletion, because SL screenshots arn't allowed on FA anymore.


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

Anuv said:


> SL is an extremely unique, fluid medium. It's more or less the next step in the realm of global interaction and communication. I know that none of this really applies to those (most) of you working in fast food kitchens and all, but it's quickly gaining ground as an established, legitimate workspace for a great variety of companies and applications. It's a shame that most of you are too stupid to realize this.



Yeah it is. Because IMHO to not embrace new techonologies is Luddite at best.

And i read about a movement known as Neo-Luddism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Luddism


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## Axelfox (Mar 19, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> 1) WHy is it in these threads where you are criticized for your activities in SL, you repeatidly then drop information about things you're trying to do in Second Life?
> 
> 2) I'm reporting that image for deletion, because SL screenshots arn't allowed on FA anymore.



/me saves all the screenshots to hard drive.


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## Runefox (Mar 19, 2010)

Anuv said:


> SL is an extremely unique, fluid medium. It's more or less the next step in the realm of global interaction and communication.



No. It's not any different than a chat room; In essence, the only communication that is done via SL is done via the same medium that has been around in the computing industry for decades - textual messages. You cannot legitimately say that Second Life provides interactivity in any level when the only interaction you can really do is what you've managed to find in terms of scripts and so on (and even then it's merely animations, conveying nothing).

There is nothing to be gained by introducing Second Life to any workplace. How does having dedicated staff members to run a Second Life "kiosk" for a computer shop work? A defence contractor? A stock exchange?

Almost every task that could feasibly be done in Second Life by any business is far more cheaply and efficiently performed via other means - Websites, telephone, etc. Why? It's faster. It's cheaper. It's more efficient. It's more effective. It's more *direct*.

Only the deluded would think for a moment that Second Life, which is no more than any other 3D chat has ever been, is the next evolution of communications technology.



> Yeah it is. Because IMHO to not embrace new techonologies is Luddite at best.


Second Life is not a new technology; 3D chats and 3D "worlds" have existed before and will exist once Second Life fades into memory. Second Life is no more than a money-sink, and its usefulness as a "tool" in any respect is limited in the face of far more practical technologies. I continually liken Second Life to chat rooms, because frankly, that's what it is. Sure, you have a camera and there are 3D models strewn about, but in the end, when you break it down, _what are *you* doing_? You're sitting at your computer, typing messages. You may as well be on IRC.

Even insofar as roleplay goes, Second Life provides nothing more than a visual aid. Unless you literally have scripts set up for every conceivable action you could possibly do, you're going to be roleplaying one thing while your avatar (which is hardly any different from any other avatar) stiffly does another thing entirely. Basically, again, it's nothing more than a visual aid to what boils down to a very text-reliant form of communication.

Do wake me when we have holo-phones that we can use to virtually talk to each other and interact face-to-face without having to be in the same part of the world - _This_ would be a technology that could revolutionize the business world. Crude, rudimentary 3D graphics and stiff approximations of real-life locales and personae does not, and will not. Period.


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## Aden (Mar 19, 2010)

Anuv said:


> SL is an extremely unique, fluid medium. It's more or less the next step in the realm of global interaction and communication. I know that none of this really applies to those (most) of you working in fast food kitchens and all, but it's quickly gaining ground as an established, legitimate workspace for a great variety of companies and applications. It's a shame that most of you are too stupid to realize this.



It's a laggy MMO with customization capabilities. We're too stupid to realize its usefulness? What is it useful for? Please cite a source that shows SL being used by a company as a useful collaborative "workspace" and not just a PR gimmick.


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## Carenath (Mar 19, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> I'm reporting that image for deletion, because SL screenshots arn't allowed on FA anymore.


The new AUP hasn't come into effect yet as far as I am aware (the old one is still listed on the website), however the linked submission was in breach of the rules, and I have removed it.

And speaking of garbage collection... Thread Closed.


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