# Comparative Anatomy: a guide to Anthropomorphic Drawing



## Catpixels (Nov 1, 2008)

First of all let me introduce myself. I'm an artist, not really a writer. The reason I'm posting here it's because I had an idea for an art book that I've been wanting to write for some years, but never managed to find enough free time to fully focus on it

I find the information on anthropomorphic body structures laking. Whenever I see or read works produced by others, or when I try to find references for my own works, I notice a great deal of people have a poor comprehension on how anatomy truly works and that leads to some pretty serious mistakes. And when other people see those works, but don't have enough knowledge to back them up and warn them that interpretation is not exactly correct, that only leads to more widespread of incorrect information
((Some examples of what I mean: a dog's heel being considered as its knee; a werewolf with 4 leg joints instead of just 3))

What I intend to do is to write a book that visually explains the similarities and differences between several body structures and how can those be combined into proper anthropomorphic creatures. Also I intend to cover other important topics, like the different type of anthros within the same base species, types of locomotion (plantigrade, digitigrade, unguligrade...), common ancestors and how each species differentiated, etc
This book doesn't aim to be a how to draw step-by-step book, but an informative and well illustrated compilation of information that can be easy to understand by everyone

What I'm asking here is opinions and suggestions on what you think that should be mentioned and what topics are most relevant
I have already the main structure and topics planned out (as shown below), but I want to get a first hand opinion of my target audience to ensure I cover all the important points

Also I want to ask opinions about how to publish this. I live in Portugal (Europe) and sadly the market for this type of content isn't very high, so my aim is to release the book where it has a higher chance to reach the people truly interested in this topic. Problem is I have little to no knowledge on how to publish an art book or what type of publishing companies deal with this type of books best

Please let me know your opinions about this project. Any suggestions are more than welcome ^^


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## Catpixels (Nov 1, 2008)

P.S: there are no guarantees that all the animal examples will be used (especially because there are too many). I'm looking for those with particular or odd features that set them quite apart from other animals from the same class

*Title*: Comparative Anatomy: a guide to Anthropomorphic Drawing

1) *Introduction*
- what is comparative anatomy
- what are anthros
- why is comparative anatomy important
- how to use the book

2) *The Anthropomorphs*
- types of anthros
- borderlines (where is the limit between being an anthro or not)
- plantigrade, digitigrade, unguligrad
- ...

3) *The Human Anatomy*
- human figure
- proportions
- skeleton
- face
- hands
- feet
- poses

4) *Comparative Anatomy*

Common Topics:
- evolutionary tree
- resemblances and differences
- fossil examples
- skeletons
- body parts

Mammalian:
- monkey
- canine
- feline
- rodent
- horse
- elephant
- tapir
- rhino
- hippo
- kangaroo
- bat
- cetacean
- ...

Avian:
- eagle
- duck
- corvid
- flamingo
- humming bird
- toucan
- penguin
- ostrich
- parrot
- ...

Reptilian:
- crocodile
- turtle
- snake
- lizard
- gecko
- chameleon
- ...

Fish:
- stingray
- shark
- goldfish
- viperfish
- seahorse
- carp
- angelfish
- coelacanth
- eel
- ...

Amphibian:
- frog
- salamander
- ...

Invertebrates:
- mantis
- ant
- spider
- stag beetle
- butterfly
- caterpillar 
- centipede
- worm
- clam
- jellyfish
- crab
- snail
- scorpion
- octopus
- ...

Plants:
- ivy
- tree
- "mushrooms"
- algae
- clover
- moss
- bush
- fern
- dandelion
- ...

Extinct:
- raptor
- pterodactyl
- apatosaurus 
- elasmosaurus
- ichthyosaurus
- dimetrodon
- mammoth
- sabertooth tiger
- ...

Myth:
- ...


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## PridedFalcon (Nov 1, 2008)

Yay birds!

Sorry, though I'm not sure I would be of any use, although I love the idea! ^_^


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## Poetigress (Nov 1, 2008)

You'll probably have better luck posting about this in the art forums.  I know there are artists on FA who have published art books and so on (Watergazer is doing a werewolf anatomy book, if I remember correctly), but I don't know how many of them are going to see a post in a writing forum.  Plus, fellow artists are going to be able to give you better ideas of what should be included -- writers aren't really your target audience for this kind of thing.


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## Catpixels (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestion. I have intention to post a link to this thread in my journal in FA and on DA, but I'll post one in the art forums as well


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## GatodeCafe (Nov 1, 2008)

I think this project actually sounds fantastic, and I would love to hear more about it as it proceeds. As a budding artist, one of the things I've found is that art books tend to skimp on the details concerning technique and theory, but I think it looks like you've got a pretty good handle on that sort of thing. 

Regarding publishers, I would seek out an agent in your area, as well as take a few tips from "Idiot's guide to creative writing". In spite of the title, there is actually a very informative chapter on instruction literature/textbooks. Good luck!


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## bluewulf1 (Nov 1, 2008)

sounds auesome. tell  me where and when your putting this book out and i'll look it up.


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## Catpixels (Nov 2, 2008)

GatodeCafe said:


> I think this project actually sounds fantastic, and I would love to hear more about it as it proceeds. As a budding artist, one of the things I've found is that art books tend to skimp on the details concerning technique and theory, but I think it looks like you've got a pretty good handle on that sort of thing.
> 
> Regarding publishers, I would seek out an agent in your area, as well as take a few tips from "Idiot's guide to creative writing". In spite of the title, there is actually a very informative chapter on instruction literature/textbooks. Good luck!



Yeah, it's the same things with the books I've seen. There isn't a single one explaining the anatomy of a bird's leg and I've even seen an idiot who wrote that a dog's ankle was just like the human knee bending backwards D<

I don't think agents here would want to represent me to publish a book in a foreign country >>
And I'll try to keep an eye out for that book (even though it's unlikely to be sold around here...)



bluewulf1 said:


> sounds auesome. tell  me where and when your putting this book out and i'll look it up.



I'll try


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## Poetigress (Nov 2, 2008)

I don't think you're going to find an agent to take on this kind of book.  Considering the audience, your best bet is probably to self-publish it through someplace like Lulu (though I don't know how well they handle art books).  I don't know offhand how they handle international sales, so that might be something else to look into.


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## Catpixels (Nov 2, 2008)

Poetigress said:


> I don't think you're going to find an agent to take on this kind of book.  Considering the audience, your best bet is probably to self-publish it through someplace like Lulu (though I don't know how well they handle art books).  I don't know offhand how they handle international sales, so that might be something else to look into.



That depends. The genre I'm looking at it's not the usual novels section, but the informative and technical books one
One of the reasons most articles and tutorials out there aren't what I'm looking for. This is not a regular piece of writing just for the sake of entertainment 

I want to stay out of the e-publishers as much as I can for several reasons, but main one being that the book would reach a fairly restricted market when compared to their paper cousins. That and informative books can be too much of an heavy reading for the computer screen


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## Frasque (Nov 2, 2008)

Poetigress said:


> I don't think you're going to find an agent to take on this kind of book. Considering the audience, your best bet is probably to self-publish it through someplace like Lulu (though I don't know how well they handle art books). I don't know offhand how they handle international sales, so that might be something else to look into.


 
Actually I've seen 5 or 6 books about drawing fantasy type figures, and one specifically for furries, and the art in that was not even close to CatPixel's in quality. Why are you often so negative toward people?


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## Catpixels (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks for your vote of confidence Frasque ^^

I don't know Poetigress, but I can assume that her field is more of novels in general than of technical books. Unless you're used to visit that section looking for information it's not an area most people visit ^^;;


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## Poetigress (Nov 3, 2008)

I've seen those books, too.  They're often done by well-known fantasy artists, and there are very few of them compared to the larger field of art books.  I suggested self-publishing because the fandom is a niche market, and sometimes self-publishing is the best way to get your work out there to that specialized audience in a timely and cost-effective way.  

(Also, I didn't mean e-publishing -- I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want to do that.  Lulu.com is one of the print-on-demand companies that prints paper copies as they are ordered by customers.)

But as I said, I think artists who are more aware of the business and/or who have more experience publishing this sort of thing will be able to help more, which is why I suggested that Catpixel post over there.

As far as why I'm "often so negative toward people," this is the first I've heard of that.  I try to be as realistic as I can when I give advice; I'm sorry if that comes off as negative.


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## Catpixels (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm not aiming exclusively for the anthro fans. I know from experience this theme reaches a much wider public, since there are many, many people who want to understand better the animal anatomy but find it hard because they don't have much to compare it to

I'll have to take a better look at the print-on-demand companies and research on them. From what I've read so far there are some issues similar to the e-publishers that make people avoid them Xp


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## ScottyDM (Nov 6, 2008)

I think such a book would be useful and good. I'm not an artist, but I have eyes and I use them. Apparently some amateur artists in the fandom aren't able to see what they're looking at. Then to make it all more interesting--they copy each other. It's not that they don't have the skill, it's that they don't seem interested in thinking about the subject matter, or using Google.


I think self-publishing is a horrible idea for fiction, but it can work for nonfiction, which an art book is. If you want a paper and ink product there are many options, and which are best depends on your goals.

If you want to become a marketing machine and get your book out into the channel, that is into brick and mortar stores, then traditional printing will at least give you a shot at turning a profit--but you'll need to move thousands of copies in the first six months. Also, do a little study on how the book-selling channel works because it's a brutal place for those who _do_ have a clue. My feeling is that to survive in the channel your production cost (printing, binding, and getting the books to your garage) needs to be about 1/8th of the cover price. So unless you're really going high volume, use a local printer and binder.

If you'll be pleased with selling a handful of books off a web page, then POD (print on demand) is the way to go. However, some companies that use POD as a production technique want a lot of money up front. And there is one company out there who pretends to be a real publisher, and will even pay you an $1 advance rather than asking for money up front--but then they have a tendency to introduce errors into your manuscript, are horrible at making changes when the errors are discovered, and they lock up your book with an unusually long contract.

LuLu, at least, is honest. Rather than imply your book will become a best seller their stated business model is to help a million authors sell ten copies each--which is a pretty accurate prediction of average sales for self-published books. If you don't need an ISBN (a requirement if you're going to sell your book through any retail store) then the upfront cost with LuLu is $0. They'll even throw in a free web page on their site where folks can buy your book. LuLu charges $99 for an ISBN. Unfortunately, LuLu's production costs are a touch high, but acceptable for direct sales. Oh yea, if you can put it in a PDF file, LuLu will print it. They've built an automated system so no human will touch your book except to carry the stack of sheets to the binder and the finished book to shipping. That's a big fat clue--make sure your PDF files are _perfect_ before uploading them. They also have a four-color option, but the cost on that is a fright.

Here's a thought. For an instruction book like you're proposing, my suggestion would be to consider spiral binding. It'll lay flat without having to hold it open and that could be an advantage to an artist.


Can you beat the odds and sell more than ten books?

Word of mouth is the best sales tool ever. One way to get word of mouth is to: have a really cool book that will excite people, then give away free samples. In the case of traditional publishing sold through the channel, that means mailing out a couple hundred copies to the appropriate people. If you're going low production volumes with POD then you could give away PDF files of your first few chapters, or even put the contents of your whole book up as HTML on a website. It's such a massive pain in the tail to print out a website that just about anyone who might actually spend money (real customers) will go ahead and buy your book. Other ideas would be to do video lessons and post them someplace like YouTube.

Best of luck with your project.

Scotty


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## Catpixels (Nov 6, 2008)

ScottyDM said:


> I think such a book would be useful and good. I'm not an artist, but I have eyes and I use them. Apparently some amateur artists in the fandom aren't able to see what they're looking at. Then to make it all more interesting--they copy each other. It's not that they don't have the skill, it's that they don't seem interested in thinking about the subject matter, or using Google.
> 
> 
> I think self-publishing is a horrible idea for fiction, but it can work for nonfiction, which an art book is. If you want a paper and ink product there are many options, and which are best depends on your goals.
> ...


First of all thank you for your detailed suggestion. It's really helpful =D

Yeah that was one of the things I noticed with some artist, especially the beginner and amateur ones. They're too lazy to do any real research or to try to understand how anatomy works, which is sad really. Another reason why this book should be helpful =)

As good as self-publishing may sound I don't think I have the resources. First of all I'm flat broke. The little money I have comes from the few commissions I can get and that's barely enough to survive on a daily basis
Second I live in Portugal. Even if people were to pre-pay for the book and I did all the printing and shipping by myself, most likely 99% would mean shipping across the ocean. Besides the extra costs, the experience I've had so far with the postal service makes me take a step back from that option
Third and again related with me living in Portugal, self-publishing is not practiced around here unless you're printing small booklets and other hand-to-hand or door-to-door form of distribution (at least where I live. I'm not sure if the same happens in the big cities). If it doesn't belong to publishing company then the odds of seeing it sold are very slim, especially it being an art book and not something more practical like computer books (yes, art is that underrated around here) DX

I've read about those scams and such with the PODs and other online services (even with editors and publishers as well), but thanks for the warning

Many people have recommended me to Lulu and talked well about its services, including people who've already published there, so it does seem like it's a good service =D

Yeah, spiral binding sounds like an interesting idea :grin:

Partially one of the reasons I've put this project up here is to let potential buyers know about it and have them spread the word. I'll keep doing this even more once I enter the production stage. Right now I'm doing research, seeing what's out there and gathering people's opinions on what they consider important to feature on the book
The free sample, sneak peeks and teasers also had crossed my mind. I know from experience how interested someone can become if you show them glimpses of something of their interest XD
Publishing a section on my webpage has already been included on my plans but I don't think I could do video lessons *voice sounds wheezy like a horse* >_>

Thanks for all the suggestions again ^^
I'll have to ponder well on my options, reason why I'm trying to gather all the information I can right now, so I have time to form a well informed opinion


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## sashadistan (Nov 8, 2008)

there are some good sites that do selp publishing for starving authors. you get a proper bar code, ISBN, and the opportunity to have your book listed on Barnes and Noble etc. go to LULU to find out more.
I have an online friend who published his first book this way, and let me tell you, the quality is top notch, the bindings are lovely, the pages thick and clean, the priting clear, the covers glossy. Plus it's hefty enough that you could give someone concussion with it.
They have an American and English portions of their site, so it depends which continent you'd rather target (or target first) I don't think there is a site for your country (sorry).
Very cool idea though, I'd buy one.


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## Catpixels (Nov 8, 2008)

sashadistan said:


> there are some good sites that do selp publishing for starving authors. you get a proper bar code, ISBN, and the opportunity to have your book listed on Barnes and Noble etc. go to LULU to find out more.
> I have an online friend who published his first book this way, and let me tell you, the quality is top notch, the bindings are lovely, the pages thick and clean, the priting clear, the covers glossy. Plus it's hefty enough that you could give someone concussion with it.
> They have an American and English portions of their site, so it depends which continent you'd rather target (or target first) I don't think there is a site for your country (sorry).
> Very cool idea though, I'd buy one.



So I have been told by a lot of people :grin:

Right now I'm pondering on all options as I collect information to structure the book. But thanks for your opinion and especially for the type of experience you had with that service. It's really helpful ^^


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## ScottyDM (Nov 8, 2008)

Actually, right now I think you should be creating your illustrations and text, putting it together and arranging the chapters, and then finding some folks to review it for you (a critique). Unless you've already done this.


Scotty


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## Catpixels (Nov 8, 2008)

ScottyDM said:


> Actually, right now I think you should be creating your illustrations and text, putting it together and arranging the chapters, and then finding some folks to review it for you (a critique). Unless you've already done this.
> 
> 
> Scotty



Right now I'm in the research phase. I managed to build up all the topics I want to discuss in deeper detail, but there's some biological information I still need to cover

Basically I'm following the same steps I did when writing my masters. The only difference is the publication stage ^^;;


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