# Popular Skilled Artist gets rejected by former crappy artist?



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Hello all.

Well I figured that I wanted to ask a question and hear some opinions on a topic that's been on my mind for quite awhile. 

Well as you know, in any art fandom (be it FurAffinity, DeviantArt, etc.) Not every artist starts out as a spectacular or skilled artist and it takes lots of work, determination, sweat, and practice to become a skillful artist. However, there are artists who have a slower learning process then others. But one thing I have noticed in both sites and others are that some (NOT ALL) skillful artists will only associate themselves with other skilled/popular artists and ignore those who aren't on their level. 

Let's say for example, that a popular skillful artist gets approached by an artist of a lower level and tries to initiate a conversation but gets blatantly ignored and rejected because the popular skilled artist thought their art was "crappy" and deemed them not worthy to talk to or even be friends with. Then about a few months to a year later, when the "crappy" artist becomes very skilled with his/her own art, the popular skilled artist then approaches them and tries to befriend them as they now deemed them worthy and the former "crappy" artist rejects them. 

My question is, Do you think that the former "crappy" artist has the right to reject the popular artist who rejected them? 

Personally, I think that you should treat people the way you want to be treated. I know I'm not an amazing artists and I'm still learning myself but I would never ignore someone just because their art wasn't "amazing" or because they aren't popular. I just think that it is kind of shallow and rude to ignore and reject someone for a trivial matter such as that. But I also think that karma plays a part in the deal as well. When you treat someone wrong, people do remember and they'll know what kind of person you are in the inside and reject you since they've seen what you really are like.

And just want to clarify that I'm not directing this to anyone, It's just something that's been on my mind because I have seen this happening for years and just wanted to see what others thought. And I am also aware that sometimes, skilled/popular artists don't always have the time to comment/reply/etc. back at their watchers and I understand that. But yeah, opinions anyone? And I apologize for my poor grammar skills...

(Edit: I just wanted to edit the part where I talked about the "crappy" artist becoming very skilled. I should have said, just a bit more improved because after the comment made by Arshes Nei, I realized that what she said was true. No one can get skilled in just a few months... So yeah, just wanted to clarify that.)


----------



## Thaily (May 15, 2011)

I think it may not be as simple as people accepting or rejecting interaction with other people based on their skill level, and that most people (even artists) may not think in terms of skill when choosing who to associate with.
There's a lot of reasons a person might not seem willing to talk to someone at first, then initiate contact later on; like being busy with life and only chatting with people they already know until they have time to put energy into getting to know new people.
Reasons aside, a skilled artist can decline to talk to anyone for any reason. They don't owe anyone, anything. Exact same goes for the "crappy" artist, they don't have to talk to anyone they don't want to. 

People become friends based on what they have in common and can talk about, like a hobby or the nature of their sense of humor; Artists who are at the same stage of development might have more in common but that doesn't mean a skilled artist judges everyone else on that criteria and knowingly snubs people who might be less skilled.


----------



## Jw (May 15, 2011)

In short, do I think it's right? Nope.

Would I do this too if someone treated me this way? Likely.

Overall, it's a thing you strive to be the better person. I try not to burn any bridges, but if i am treated like crap by anyone of any skill level, they will become ignored. Equal opportunity to be kind to me, and I think I am pretty forgiving.


----------



## Volkodav (May 15, 2011)

No, I don't think it's right either way; to ignore someone based on their art skill level is simply childish. I really don't like when artists ignore their fans, too.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 15, 2011)

I'm curious how a crappy artist becomes skilled in months. It takes longer than that.


----------



## Recel (May 15, 2011)

The edit button. Use it.

Aaaaanyways, its not right, but still its just the way people work. The "cool" people always want to hang out with other "cool" people, and anyone who doesnt fits there definition of "cool" gets ignored. Its realy common, not just in art.


----------



## SnowFox (May 15, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> -


 
Woah. Here, have a quote button 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 :]


----------



## Fay V (May 15, 2011)

I don't think it is right to ignore someone purely for their art skill, I have plenty of friends that don't draw very well, it's not that big a deal. Then again there is an annoying counter trend in art fandoms. 

People that may not be very skilled seek out others that they see as better than themselves in order to attach themselves to someone they see as a stronger artist, and the worst of them do it in order to get free art. These people was tips, a boost in popularity by association, and free stuff, and these are the kinds of people that you can, and should avoid. 
I'm not saying everyone that isn't as skilled wants to ride your coat tails, it's just that it's slower going. Someone at the same skill/popularity level won't be using you because they have what you have. 
I personally adore my fans, I've just had some bad luck with art whores in the past that has soured my opinion of people that are reeeeally stoked to be my friend without getting to know me. 

If the now magically skilled artist wants to reject the artist that rejected them, go for it. relationships are more than art skills.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Um.. I'm not sure how to respond to that. ^^;


----------



## Fay V (May 15, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> Um.. I'm not sure how to respond to that. ^^;


There is a button on the side of the reply with quote button. you click that. you can check 2 posts then reply to quote with the third. 

reply with quote lets us know who you are talking to. 

You need to edit your posts with that you want to post next so you don't double post. Notice that you posted 2 times in a row here without anyone saying anything in between. Before you posted 5 times. 
Just edit post, add the new reply, post. you don't need to double post.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Fay V said:


> There is a button on the side of the reply with quote button. you click that. you can check 2 posts then reply to quote with the third.
> 
> reply with quote lets us know who you are talking to.
> 
> ...



Oh I see... Thank you for the help... I learned something new today, thank you again.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I don't think it is right to ignore someone purely for their art skill, I have plenty of friends that don't draw very well, it's not that big a deal. Then again there is an annoying counter trend in art fandoms.
> 
> People that may not be very skilled seek out others that they see as better than themselves in order to attach themselves to someone they see as a stronger artist, and the worst of them do it in order to get free art. These people was tips, a boost in popularity by association, and free stuff, and these are the kinds of people that you can, and should avoid.
> I'm not saying everyone that isn't as skilled wants to ride your coat tails, it's just that it's slower going. Someone at the same skill/popularity level won't be using you because they have what you have.
> ...


I agree with you Fay V, I don't think it's right to ignore someone based on their art level as well.

And trust me, as an artist myself; I have been there when a person befriended me and down along the road, the person started asking if I would draw him this or draw him that and when I politely declined, the person up and stopped talking to me. This has happened about 3 times in my art life so I know how it sucks to be used like that. But I also have genuine friends who got to know me as a person and not for my art. And I understand how the popular/skilled artist will only talk to those that are popular/skilled and not bother talking to others because of the "use and take" thing lower artists or fans tactic. 

And truer words have never been spoken in the art community, at least to me. "Relationships are more than art skills". The way I see it, you never know who will become the next skilled artist, it could even be the crappy artist that gets put down and like I said, I think karma does have a play on that logic. It's like a muscular guy who won't date a guy just because he is skinny but then, the skinny guys starts working out and becomes slightly more muscular and the said muscular guy goes flocking to him only to be rejected. I think it's irony at it's best lol

Anyway, I'm terribly sorry for the long reply, I just really agreed with your post.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Recel said:


> The edit button. Use it.
> 
> Aaaaanyways, its not right, but still its just the way people work. The "cool" people always want to hang out with other "cool" people, and anyone who doesnt fits there definition of "cool" gets ignored. Its realy common, not just in art.



I apologize, this is just my second thread and I'm still learning. I pressed the edit button and it seemed to work just fine for my edit to my post.

And I know it's very common in real life too, believe me. But since I'm in the Palette Town category, I thought I'd focus this topic more on the art side perspective if you know what I mean? And I understand about the "cool" people hanging with only the other "cool" people and not wanting anything to do with the less popular/cool/whatever people. 
Thank you for your honest opinion.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Thaily said:


> I think it may not be as simple as people accepting or rejecting interaction with other people based on their skill level, and that most people (even artists) may not think in terms of skill when choosing who to associate with.
> There's a lot of reasons a person might not seem willing to talk to someone at first, then initiate contact later on; like being busy with life and only chatting with people they already know until they have time to put energy into getting to know new people.
> Reasons aside, a skilled artist can decline to talk to anyone for any reason. They don't owe anyone, anything. Exact same goes for the "crappy" artist, they don't have to talk to anyone they don't want to.
> 
> People become friends based on what they have in common and can talk about, like a hobby or the nature of their sense of humor; Artists who are at the same stage of development might have more in common but that doesn't mean a skilled artist judges everyone else on that criteria and knowingly snubs people who might be less skilled.



I understand what you are saying. And I thought about it too. I guess I didn't see all of that side at first. At any rate, thank you for being honest and stating your honest opinion.


----------



## Recel (May 15, 2011)

Kailombax. Next to the "Reply with quote" button theres a small icon, a chat bubble with a plus under it. Click that and it will put a little check there. Mark every post you want to reply to this way, exept for the last one. On the last one hit "Reply with quote". Now all the quotes will be in one post you make.

Also, write UNDER the quote, not above it.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Jw said:


> In short, do I think it's right? Nope.
> 
> Would I do this too if someone treated me this way? Likely.
> 
> Overall, it's a thing you strive to be the better person. I try not to burn any bridges, but if i am treated like crap by anyone of any skill level, they will become ignored. Equal opportunity to be kind to me, and I think I am pretty forgiving.




I'm the same way. And I didn't mean it just for the popular/skilled artists, I generally use that rule for anyone who treats me like crap and then when they see that I am "worthy" and whatnot, I would most likely not acknowledge their advance. I try to be nice to everyone and I'm naturally a passive person (unless you keep pushing my buttons, then I have no choice but to get a little more assertive). 

I'm pretty forgiving as well but if someone stoops so low as to treat me differently just because what I do and all that, then it takes me awhile to come around y'know?

But I'm humbly thankful for you view on the subject matter.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Recel said:


> Kailombax. Next to the "Reply with quote" button theres a small icon, a chat bubble with a plus under it. Click that and it will put a little check there. Mark every post you want to reply to this way, exept for the last one. On the last one hit "Reply with quote". Now all the quotes will be in one post you make.
> 
> Also, write UNDER the quote, not above it.


 
Oh okay.. .So whenever I want to reply to someone elses post, I just click the chat bubble icon, then select "reply with quote" like what I did just now?


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Clayton said:


> No, I don't think it's right either way; to ignore someone based on their art skill level is simply childish. I really don't like when artists ignore their fans, too.


 
Yeah, I feel the same way about that but I came to terms that not all artists are going to treat their fans nicely as if they lose a few fans, more will just take their place. And well, as much as that sucks, it's just life. 
I know for a fact that I would never ignore someone, even if they aren't that good at art. Because they are only human and what I learned is that people don't magically start good, they practice on their work and with time, gradually become better. So if a not so good artist approached me, I wouldn't brush them aside, I'd try to get to know the person and even help them with their own art if they asked (like giving some crits and advice). 
But at the same time, I think that some skilled artist will ignore most of their fans or people that try to get to know them because they feel that the said person is just trying to get in good with them so they can get free art out of them. I think it is wrong to use someone for your own personal gain and I understand that logic. But at the same time, I think that they shouldn't assume that all "below their level" type people are only being nice so they can get free art because it's not true.

Anyway, sorry for the long reply, I just thought I should throw my two cents in on that particular topic you brought up.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm curious how a crappy artist becomes skilled in months. It takes longer than that.



I mean't that a "crappy" artist becomes a little bit more skilled (I'm talking about the ones who practice practice practice and start becoming a little more improved) I know not everyone can improve in just a few months, but there are some that do. I should have worded that sentence differently...


----------



## Fay V (May 15, 2011)

We'll get through this. really we will. 
You need to combine your posts and use the multiquote button. that's buttom to the right of reply to quote. we believe in you.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Fay V said:


> We'll get through this. really we will.
> You need to combine your posts and use the multiquote button. that's buttom to the right of reply to quote. we believe in you.



Umm.. Like this...?


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Recel said:


> The edit button. Use it.
> 
> Aaaaanyways, its not right, but still its just the way people work. The "cool" people always want to hang out with other "cool" people, and anyone who doesnt fits there definition of "cool" gets ignored. Its realy common, not just in art.


 
I apologize, this is just my second thread and I'm still learning. I pressed the edit button and it seemed to work just fine for my edit to my post.

And I know it's very common in real life too, believe me. But since I'm in the Palette Town category, I thought I'd focus this topic more on the art side perspective if you know what I mean? And I understand about the "cool" people hanging with only the other "cool" people and not wanting anything to do with the less popular/cool/whatever people. 
Thank you for your honest opinion.


----------



## Fay V (May 15, 2011)

When there is multiple quotes you want to use use the multiquote button. If you open up word, you can take those 4 posts you did in a row, put them together, and not post 4 times in a row. Understand?
The quoting and editing lets you not spam.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

SnowFox said:


> Woah. Here, have a quote button
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Haha thank you. I understand now... <= )


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Fay V said:


> When there is multiple quotes you want to use use the multiquote button. If you open up word, you can take those 4 posts you did in a row, put them together, and not post 4 times in a row. Understand?
> The quoting and editing lets you not spam.


 
Man, I'm so stupid... I think I understand what you mean. Are you saying that if I want to reply to more then 1 quote at the same time, I use the "multi-quote this message" icon and if I'm just replying to one post, I just press the "reply with quote" icon...?


----------



## Thatch (May 15, 2011)

I just wanted to post here to say this:

Thank you for letting me witness this magnificent trainwreck of posting abilities. I have never seen anything quite like this before and I don't think it'll happen again anytime soon.


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Thatch said:


> I just wanted to post here to say this:
> 
> Thank you for letting me witness this magnificent trainwreck of posting abilities. I have never seen anything quite like this before and I don't think it'll happen again anytime soon.


 
...You're welcome...


----------



## Saracide (May 15, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> ...You're welcome...



Don't feel too bad. My first post here wasn't received very well......Or my second for that matter.....Fuck I should just leave..... XD

Don't take it to heart tho. *hugs*


----------



## Kailombax (May 15, 2011)

Saracide said:


> Don't feel too bad. My first post here wasn't received very well......Or my second for that matter.....Fuck I should just leave..... XD
> 
> Don't take it to heart tho. *hugs*


 
Haha I understand, I'm just kind of embarrassed that I made so many mistakes in just one post. <= D
But thanks for the nice feedback *hugs back*


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 15, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> I mean't that a "crappy" artist becomes a little bit more skilled (I'm talking about the ones who practice practice practice and start becoming a little more improved) I know not everyone can improve in just a few months, but there are some that do. I should have worded that sentence differently...


 
I think I'm with Thaily on there seems to be more to the story. Often times I rarely think it's just "oh yeah crappy artist ignore" but there's times when people who are unskilled constantly bug you with the following:

"How'd did you get so good" and when you tell them it's practice, they think you're actually hiding some voodoo magic and are not willing to part with the secret of artmaking unless it's at the cost of 400 children's souls.

A lot of times the person is utterly boring to talk with. They think good icebreaking conversations are about who is who in the fandom, do I like so and so's artwork in the fandom. I personally don't care about that - it's like talking about the weather.  Other times I'm not interested in what one has to say. You have to remember we're just strangers really. I may want to hear what you have to say anymore than a random person on the bus talking about stuff I'm uninterested in hearing.

Other times, while I'm online I'm just well busy - not the only person who wants to borrow my ear. So if you're just gonna go "hi" wait for five minutes and the next is "how are you" wait five minutes and not get to the point WHY you're IMing me it's crazy torturous. 

To be frank, it's not the person's skill level and even with the "oh that's a popufur" or popular artist - it rarely is with that many artists about the skill level, but just simply if you click together to have a conversation. 

Fay V also touched on the leech thing - where unskilled artists worry about their popularity and hang out with better ones to get free artwork. 

You hang out with who has similar interests and not just one singular one - such as being an artist is just an icebreaker. Just like being interested in comics is also an icebreaker. You develop better conversations when you can communicate and go further than that. Otherwise, it's best to hang out with those artwise with similar goals  and not skill level.


----------



## Fay V (May 15, 2011)

Exactly as Arshes says. 
I've gotten a lot of messages in the past, people just IM me and go "Hi, what's up?" expecting me to just go into a full conversation like we've known each other for years. I get this sort of attention when I'm still very much a beginning artist. 
In reality the skill levels I see often are those that have very basic ideas of art, or don't, and those that have some fundamentals. When I find an artist that doesn't have even a lot of the basics, it's hard to have a real art conversation there. I end up just instructing them on basics. With someone closer to my level it's more even, we can discuss technique and what we do. With those higher level I have the same issue as newer artists.

I assume with a conversation with Arshes and I, there's little we could discuss in a fair way. I would get a lot of great advice I'm sure, but at the same time I wouldn't blame her for having no interest to continue conversations with me. 

It's like school. I make friends with upperclassmen easier than underclassmen. not because I feel more elite, but I can actually discuss literature with the classmen that know it decently, rather than the underclassmen where I would have to dumb it down a bit.


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Exactly as Arshes says.
> I've gotten a lot of messages in the past, people just IM me and go "Hi, what's up?" expecting me to just go into a full conversation like we've known each other for years. I get this sort of attention when I'm still very much a beginning artist.
> In reality the skill levels I see often are those that have very basic ideas of art, or don't, and those that have some fundamentals. When I find an artist that doesn't have even a lot of the basics, it's hard to have a real art conversation there. I end up just instructing them on basics. With someone closer to my level it's more even, we can discuss technique and what we do. With those higher level I have the same issue as newer artists.
> 
> ...



You do make a good point... I've had a similar experience. At least with the whole "hi, what's up" thing. It does dry out the conversation rather quickly when there is nothing to talk about it. I understand fully where you are getting at. 

And yeah, in terms of talking art, it would be completely difficult to talk to someone who is of lower or who is as higher as your level and thus makes the conversation awkward and could die out in a matter of seconds to minutes. 

I thank you and Arshes for your view on the matter before hand.


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think I'm with Thaily on there seems to be more to the story. Often times I rarely think it's just "oh yeah crappy artist ignore" but there's times when people who are unskilled constantly bug you with the following:
> 
> "Hod did you get so good" and when you tell them it's practice, they think you're actually hiding some voodoo magic and are not willing to part with the secret of artmaking unless it's at the cost of 400 children's souls.
> 
> ...



I get what you mean. I will clarify my little opinion on those types of people. The ones who only have one similar thing in common and that it happened to be art. I have to think that even if popular skilled artists conversed with those of their level and the only thing they had in common was their art, I think they probably wouldn't be able to carry multiple conversations unless they had other interests outside of art. (And I'm counting this for all artists now that I realize it, good/bad/crappy/whatever) So you really opened my eyes and mind on that particular subject and I thank you. 

Leech artists are the worse kind but like I said, I don't think people should get into the assumption that all unskilled artist are leeches. I do believe that there are signs if they are leeches or not but anyway, that's just me. I understand that most skilled artists don't want to take chances with that.

And I just want throw this out there. I am not having this thread as a hatred to popufur/popular/skilled artists. Everyone is free to make their own decisions or in this case, talk to who they want to talk to. It's just been a subject I've thought about for years and I kind of saw things like this happen on DeviantArt a few years back (And yes, I do know that there most likely were other reasons on why that happened). All I wanted was to ask and see what others thought, whether they agreed or not, opinions are opinions and I wanted to hear from both sides  .So yeah, just thought I should be up and honest on how I came to post this thread. 

And I feel the post kind of steered away from what I was trying to say. My main question was asking do you think it's right for an unskilled/crappy artist who gains more experience and becomes a little more skilled to deny the advance of a popufar/popular skilled artist who shunned them? That's all... <= /


----------



## Frokusblakah (May 16, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> And I feel the post kind of steered away from what I was trying to say. My main question was asking do you think it's right for an unskilled/crappy artist who gains more experience and becomes a little more skilled to deny the advance of a popufar/popular skilled artist who shunned them? That's all... <= /


 
In the end I think it depends on the situation.  Did the artist actually do something rude to you, or did they simply not get back to you about something?  If one actually was rude to me, I would likely return the attitude.  If one simply didn't respond to me I would probably brush it off.  A lot of "popular" artists get so many people commenting or prodding them that it can become a lot of work to try to initiate meaningful contact with every one.  More or less what people in the thread have been saying.

As for them "sticking together".  I think its just a big part of a shared interest.  Two artists see each other and they both like its each others art, it gives them some common ground to talk and develop a friendship should they click.  I'm still relatively new to art communities in general though, so I'm just throwing in my two cents.  I'm not exactly experienced.  :b


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 16, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> And I feel the post kind of steered away from what I was trying to say. My main question was asking do you think it's right for an unskilled/crappy artist who gains more experience and becomes a little more skilled to deny the advance of a popufar/popular skilled artist who shunned them? That's all... <= /


 
It's not steered away, you're trying to oversimplify to get a favorable response for your side. It's not that simple.


----------



## mapdark (May 16, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> And I feel the post kind of steered away from what I was trying to say. My main question was asking do you think it's right for an unskilled/crappy artist who gains more experience and becomes a little more skilled to deny the advance of a popufar/popular skilled artist who shunned them? That's all... <= /


 
Simple queston , simple answer : 

No it's not , it's absolutely childish and shows your lack of maturity.


Like people have said on this thread there may be various explanation to why that other person was not interested in talking to the crappy artist.

I'm nowhere NEAR being a popufur and I've had random people pop up on my IM's trying to talk to me like we're the greatest of friends.

I ignored them because I felt their way of talking to me was absolutely inapropriate considering how I didn't know them at all.

Also , like some people say , there are always leeches. And you find those in the crappiest "artists" in general. So yes people may deduct you're one by looking at your stuff.


----------



## FireFeathers (May 16, 2011)

People can talk to whomever they want. I have far more regular friends then I do being friends with good artists. Those relationships are nice because you can often talk very frank with one another; if I try to talk with my friends that are struggling in the fandom to get commissions or what have you, i feel bad talking about mine like i'm gloating on it, which i'm not. I can practically describe you the sad-face they give me that makes me want to shut up immediately.  It's more about like similarities then it is snubbing. Even then, like I said, I have far more friends on that other side of the artistic spectrum. 

That being said, there are dicks everywhere. I have one person in mind that i'm more or less friends with that used to talk to me all the time some years ago, they got popular and stopped, then i got my shit together and WOW, we're suddenly talking again. I don't treat that friendship like my long-lost sibling or anything, i just take it at a very base level, but I still talk to them. I don't tell them any secrets or anything, but i'll still converse.  Turns out anyways that horrible shit was happening to them, parents dying, that sort. So their sporadic activity i can very well understand.


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

Frokusblakah said:


> In the end I think it depends on the situation.  Did the artist actually do something rude to you, or did they simply not get back to you about something?  If one actually was rude to me, I would likely return the attitude.  If one simply didn't respond to me I would probably brush it off.  A lot of "popular" artists get so many people commenting or prodding them that it can become a lot of work to try to initiate meaningful contact with every one.  More or less what people in the thread have been saying.
> 
> As for them "sticking together".  I think its just a big part of a shared interest.  Two artists see each other and they both like its each others art, it gives them some common ground to talk and develop a friendship should they click.  I'm still relatively new to art communities in general though, so I'm just throwing in my two cents.  I'm not exactly experienced.  :b


 
Yeah I understand about the not getting back to you part. After seeing how many commenters they get, it wouldn't surprise me. But I have seen sometimes where a popular/skilled artist would say something like "I don't talk to crappy artists" or "Come talk to me when you get better, right now you aren't worth the time" I saw this more on DeviantArt back in like 2007-2008 though. And well yeah, since then, I just thought a comment like that was kind of on the rude side y'know?

And I really did enjoy reading your "two cents". I understand that your relatively new and I hope that you have a nice time in the ventures of the art communities. = )


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's not steered away, you're trying to oversimplify to get a favorable response for your side. It's not that simple.



Okay. 

And I'm not trying to sound rude but I'm not trying to get a "favorable" response for my side. I want to hear from both sides (be them with or against), simple as that.


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

FireFeathers said:


> People can talk to whomever they want. I have far more regular friends then I do being friends with good artists. Those relationships are nice because you can often talk very frank with one another; if I try to talk with my friends that are struggling in the fandom to get commissions or what have you, i feel bad talking about mine like i'm gloating on it, which i'm not. I can practically describe you the sad-face they give me that makes me want to shut up immediately.  It's more about like similarities then it is snubbing. Even then, like I said, I have far more friends on that other side of the artistic spectrum.
> 
> That being said, there are dicks everywhere. I have one person in mind that i'm more or less friends with that used to talk to me all the time some years ago, they got popular and stopped, then i got my shit together and WOW, we're suddenly talking again. I don't treat that friendship like my long-lost sibling or anything, i just take it at a very base level, but I still talk to them. I don't tell them any secrets or anything, but i'll still converse.  Turns out anyways that horrible shit was happening to them, parents dying, that sort. So their sporadic activity i can very well understand.


 
Interesting. Well thank you for sharing your side of view. = )


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 16, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> But I have seen sometimes where a popular/skilled artist would say something like "I don't talk to crappy artists" or "Come talk to me when you get better, right now you aren't worth the time" I saw this more on DeviantArt back in like 2007-2008 though. And well yeah, since then, I just thought a comment like that was kind of on the rude side y'know?


 
I've seen that comment from non popular and not skilled artists too. What's your point? Meaning that there are jerks as Firefeathers said everywhere. It seems that you're trying to coin this argument as it's the popular/skilled ones treating people bad. This isn't so. I've seen it comes from any artist of any skill level with an attitude problem.

I've also seen it sarcastically applied where outsiders took it personally.


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

mapdark said:


> Simple queston , simple answer :
> 
> No it's not , it's absolutely childish and shows your lack of maturity.
> 
> ...


 
I see what you are saying. And I guess the whole leech thing in the end turns out to be true in more or less ways... Anyway, thank you for your opinion and answer to the question.


----------



## Kailombax (May 16, 2011)

mapdark said:


> Simple queston , simple answer :
> 
> No it's not , it's absolutely childish and shows your lack of maturity.
> 
> ...


 
I see what you are saying. And I guess the whole leech thing in the end turns out to be true in more or less ways... Anyway, thank you for your opinion and answer to the question.


----------



## Arshes Nei (May 16, 2011)

It all comes down to stop worrying about your art social life and start worrying about how you can become a better artist - you don't necessarily need to worry about your status in your artistic social circle more than worrying about your sills :/


----------



## Indigo Bear (May 16, 2011)

Barely anyone ever posts on my page, sends me notes, or tries to strike up a conversation with me and I'm treated rather equally by the fandom on FA; I would consider myself an artist but I wouldn't _not_ talk to someone based on their art skills; they might be a genius at memorizing history facts or something awesome like that. I believe in a meritocracy of merit not skill. & I always say thank you for those who favourite my work because I don't get much attention on there (minus this one bear girl and my boyfriend). I think it was wrong of that person to be so judgemental


----------



## OxfordTweed (May 16, 2011)

Honestly? The vast majority of the people on this site scare and/or squick the hell out of me. I can't stand all the *hugs* and *scritches* and :3 and other 12-year-old crap. It's part of the reason I mostly just hang out on this part of the forums and sort of ignore the main site these days. I'd rather have a conversation than be role-played at.


----------



## Kailombax (May 17, 2011)

Indigo Bear said:


> Barely anyone ever posts on my page, sends me notes, or tries to strike up a conversation with me and I'm treated rather equally by the fandom on FA; I would consider myself an artist but I wouldn't _not_ talk to someone based on their art skills; they might be a genius at memorizing history facts or something awesome like that. I believe in a meritocracy of merit not skill. & I always say thank you for those who favourite my work because I don't get much attention on there (minus this one bear girl and my boyfriend). I think it was wrong of that person to be so judgemental


 
Yeah, that's how I think as well. Someone who isn't very skilled in one subject can be definitely more skilled on another subject. I personally think that everyone has something they are good at and it's not right to judge someone based on something like that because people can be surprising.


----------



## Kailombax (May 17, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> It all comes down to stop worrying about your art social life and start worrying about how you can become a better artist - you don't necessarily need to worry about your status in your artistic social circle more than worrying about your sills :/


 
I agree with all you said here. And like I said earlier involving your earlier posts, you really have opened my perspective on the subject. And just to be honest to answer your question, I don't worry about my art social life/status (I will admit, in my younger years, I did care but as I grew older, I just didn't care anymore. As long as I was happy doing something I enjoyed, I could care less about trivial things like that). I draw for myself because I enjoy it and I want to continue drawing and learning new things. That's all that matters to me at the end of the day. And if people don't like it, oh well and if people do like it, cool. That's how I see it anyway. :/


----------



## Kailombax (May 17, 2011)

Zeddish said:


> Honestly? The vast majority of the people on this site scare and/or squick the hell out of me. I can't stand all the *hugs* and *scritches* and :3 and other 12-year-old crap. It's part of the reason I mostly just hang out on this part of the forums and sort of ignore the main site these days. I'd rather have a conversation than be role-played at.


 
Haha I understand what you mean. I see this too sometimes. And sometimes, I might say things like "hugs" but only if I know them well, otherwise, it's creepy to get random comments like that on pictures and all. And I never understood why they say "scritches", shouldn't it be "scratches"? Heh, I'll never understand the furry fandom and I don't think I want to deeply immerse myself with it. lol


----------



## Thaily (May 17, 2011)

It's "scritches" because it's "kyooter" or summin' I dunno >_>

I've had people contact me, honestly most of the time I don't even know if they're artists, they just go "hi" and "how ya doin'" and then stop saying stuff after that.
I'm honestly not adverse to meeting/talking to new people, but often when people contact me they have nothing to say or ask and I don't know who they are so the conversation peters out fairly fast.
More so if they *hug* or *scritch*, because that makes me go :\ IRL and then I sort of ignore them until they start making sense and stop trying to invade my personal space _on-line_.


----------



## OxfordTweed (May 17, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> Haha I understand what you mean. I see this too sometimes. And sometimes, I might say things like "hugs" but only if I know them well, otherwise, it's creepy to get random comments like that on pictures and all. And I never understood why they say "scritches", shouldn't it be "scratches"? Heh, I'll never understand the furry fandom and I don't think I want to deeply immerse myself with it. lol



Dude. Seriously, do you need a tutorial on how to multi-quote? Look at how easy it is.

But these 'conversations' don't happen on artwork. They happen in notes. Which are meant for proper conversation. Not, as homeslice below (above; whatever. Depends on how you look at it) me said, random crap that means nothing.



Thaily said:


> It's "scritches" because it's "kyooter" or summin' I dunno >_>
> 
> I've had people contact me, honestly most of the time I don't even know if they're artists, they just go "hi" and "how ya doin'" and then stop saying stuff after that.
> I'm honestly not adverse to meeting/talking to new people, but often when people contact me they have nothing to say or ask and I don't know who they are so the conversation peters out fairly fast.
> More so if they *hug* or *scritch*, because that makes me go :\ IRL and then I sort of ignore them until they start making sense and stop trying to invade my personal space _on-line_.


 
Eurgh, THIIIIS. Why the hell should I want to ask a stranger how they're doing? What business of mine is that? Furthermore, what business of theirs is my health and well-being?

None, that's what.


----------



## Thaily (May 17, 2011)

Zeddish said:


> Eurgh, THIIIIS. Why the hell should I want to ask a stranger how they're doing? What business of mine is that? Furthermore, what business of theirs is my health and well-being?



That's not what I said.
I'm saying; there's people who contact me, then having nothing to say or ask. I'd rather talk about music or movies or whatever than have someone go "Hi. How ya doing." and then never saying another word ever again.


----------



## Kailombax (May 17, 2011)

Thaily said:


> It's "scritches" because it's "kyooter" or summin' I dunno >_>
> 
> I've had people contact me, honestly most of the time I don't even know if they're artists, they just go "hi" and "how ya doin'" and then stop saying stuff after that.
> I'm honestly not adverse to meeting/talking to new people, but often when people contact me they have nothing to say or ask and I don't know who they are so the conversation peters out fairly fast.
> More so if they *hug* or *scritch*, because that makes me go :\ IRL and then I sort of ignore them until they start making sense and stop trying to invade my personal space _on-line_.


 
"Kyooter" huh? Wow... = / I'll just stick with normal words lol

And I understand. I got that too. People I never met just say "Hi" and all that but then the coversation pretty much dies. So I totally see where you are coming from. And whenever someone does the "hug" or "scritch" thing, I try to be nice and just say "hugs back" but if they proceed to go into more, well I kind of stop there because it's just awkward.


----------



## Kailombax (May 17, 2011)

Thaily said:


> It's "scritches" because it's "kyooter" or summin' I dunno >_>
> 
> I've had people contact me, honestly most of the time I don't even know if they're artists, they just go "hi" and "how ya doin'" and then stop saying stuff after that.
> I'm honestly not adverse to meeting/talking to new people, but often when people contact me they have nothing to say or ask and I don't know who they are so the conversation peters out fairly fast.
> More so if they *hug* or *scritch*, because that makes me go :\ IRL and then I sort of ignore them until they start making sense and stop trying to invade my personal space _on-line_.


 


Zeddish said:


> Dude. Seriously, do you need a tutorial on how to multi-quote? Look at how easy it is.
> 
> But these 'conversations' don't happen on artwork. They happen in notes. Which are meant for proper conversation. Not, as homeslice below (above; whatever. Depends on how you look at it) me said, random crap that means nothing.
> 
> ...


 
Okay.


----------



## OxfordTweed (May 17, 2011)

Thaily said:


> That's not what I said.
> I'm saying; there's people who contact me, then having nothing to say or ask. I'd rather talk about music or movies or whatever than have someone go "Hi. How ya doing." and then never saying another word ever again.


 
No, it wasn't. I was adding to what you said with my own opinions.


----------



## Fay V (May 17, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> Okay.


 do you want a tutorial, cause I can make one. these double posts are a bit crazy now.


----------



## Kailombax (May 18, 2011)

Fay V said:


> do you want a tutorial, cause I can make one. these double posts are a bit crazy now.


 
Yes please...


----------



## Kailombax (May 18, 2011)

Fay V said:


> do you want a tutorial, cause I can make one. these double posts are a bit crazy now.


 
Yes please...


----------



## Archir (May 25, 2011)

If you comment on peoples work you can comment on the quality, but its actually better to comment on the process. Say a crappy artists is really trying his best to draw dragons and the quality is far less then yours, but you can see that the newer versions of his drawing are getting better. Then you can comment in all the things that are better compaired to the older work. 

Thats how I do it, I know that some people aren't as good, but you can atleast help them to get better.


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 2, 2011)

Archir said:


> If you comment on peoples work you can comment on the quality, but its actually better to comment on the process. Say a crappy artists is really trying his best to draw dragons and the quality is far less then yours, but you can see that the newer versions of his drawing are getting better. Then you can comment in all the things that are better compaired to the older work.
> 
> Thats how I do it, I know that some people aren't as good, but you can atleast help them to get better.


 
Yeah, I'm like that too. Like if I see an artist is at least trying his hardest to draw let's say like you said, a dragon. I give pointers as well. It feels good to help people.


----------



## Fay V (Jun 2, 2011)

this should help


----------



## Kayla (Jun 2, 2011)

Depends on the situation really. I've had people approach me to start up  a conversation, then I get nothing after "How are you? That's good". So  I go back to doing whatever I was doing. I admittedly that I'm choosy  with whom I talk to, granted, a good deal of people that can actually  hold a conversation aren't artists themselves. 

THEN you get some people that just talk to you in the hopes of leeching  free art, and that can make one such as myself, very sour from the  getgo. :T


....I HIGHLY doubt it that someone can go from "crappy" to skilled in a matter of months. I've been drawing since I was 10-12 years old, and I'm almost 24. It's taken me forever to get where I'm at now, and I don't really consider myself skilled. I'm always learning new techniques, and applying critiques from others to my art. 

Also, shouldn't you worry more about how you're doing as an artist, rather than whom a "popufur" (Fucking hate that term) associates themselves with? o_o


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 20, 2011)

Kayla said:


> Depends on the situation really. I've had people approach me to start up  a conversation, then I get nothing after "How are you? That's good". So  I go back to doing whatever I was doing. I admittedly that I'm choosy  with whom I talk to, granted, a good deal of people that can actually  hold a conversation aren't artists themselves.
> 
> THEN you get some people that just talk to you in the hopes of leeching  free art, and that can make one such as myself, very sour from the  getgo. :T
> 
> ...


 
Yes, I know where you are coming from with this. And the whole "leech"  thing is true too. I wasn't dismissing that or practically all the  situations you provided.

I can understand though after an artist is used by a leech, they don't  trust anyone (50/50) of the time because it may lead into another  leech-like relationship. 

And just to say, I know that an artist in training can't become skilled  in a matter of months. I probably should've thought more on that  subject, I admit my fault there. So I apologize. Everyone else is smart,  I'm the one who is dumb. I get it now. 

And I've drawn for a long time too. I started at around 7-8 (Early  Pokemon is what actually inspired me to pick up a pencil lol). And now  at the age of 19, I think I have come a long way since then and even  though I'm not at the "perfect" level, I feel I'm progressing slowly  into the direction I want to go. If that makes sense? And I KNOW it  takes years and years of practice to get good at anything. I've been  through that, I'm still going through that lol. Sorry, I just wanted to  throw that out because I know things like that take time. 

And I do focus more on my art status then being a "popufur". I  draw for myself and if people aren't satisfied, well they can always  look for another artist. After all, it's the internet lol. I actually  don't think much of "popufurs" because I slowly been getting into  cartoon human art. Warner Brother cartoons have been influencing me a  lot lately (Batman beyond, Freakazoid!, etc.). So I guess I'm not as into furry art as I used to be.  (Don't get me wrong, I still like it and still do it, just not obsessed with it)

Anyway, I'm sorry for the long reply... But I did enjoy reading your comment, thank you for your opinion.


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 20, 2011)

Fay V said:


> this should help


 
Thank you Fay V


----------



## Fay V (Jun 20, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> Thank you Fay V


 :\


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 20, 2011)

Fay V said:


> :\


 
*sigh* I'm guessing I did it wrong... Again...


----------



## Fay V (Jun 20, 2011)

Look at the link again and just please, please try not to double post.


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 20, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Look at the link again and just please, please try not to double post.


 
..Like this...?


----------



## Thaily (Jun 21, 2011)

^
Spam.
No clicky.


----------



## Taralack (Jun 21, 2011)

that wasn't immediately obvious?


----------



## Thaily (Jun 21, 2011)

Considering how new the OP is at all this, I figured it was okay to point it out.


----------



## SlushPuppy (Jun 21, 2011)

I really don't think it's at all right to oversimplify complex situations with an equation like this.

Who's to say that the person initially contacted by the student wasn't 
a. extremely busy with LIFE
b. just someone who's 
     1. shy
     2. standoffish
     3. misanthropic in general
     4. very slow to respond
c. that they simply lost the connection for a time.
d. not impressed by the behaviour displayed toward them first. 
        - be that immaturity (a thing that throws me off quickly), fan-boying (obsequious essentially). 

It's not fair to throw motivation around and jump down someone's throat for elitism when you haven't ever actually met them in life with some frequency in order to truly gauge their personality. As for return response- treat each individual situation individually and act maturely. (this last seems to be a feat for most)


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 27, 2011)

Thaily said:


> Considering how new the OP is at all this, I figured it was okay to point it out.



I understand and thanks for the friendly tip. Though I did read "Spammer Douche" in it so I knew it was just some spam person lol



SlushPuppy said:


> I really don't think it's at all right to oversimplify complex situations with an equation like this.
> 
> Who's to say that the person initially contacted by the student wasn't
> a. extremely busy with LIFE
> ...



Yes, I understand all of which you said. And like I said earlier, I didn't dismiss those points. Especially with the whole busy with life thing because that happens, there's no getting around that. But I did enjoy reading your opinion. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Thaily (Jun 28, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> I understand and thanks for the friendly tip. Though I did read "Spammer Douche" in it so I knew it was just some spam person lol


 
It says "spammer douche" after the admins get to it, otherwise it's just a weird post and link by someone with a low post-count.


----------



## Kailombax (Jun 28, 2011)

Thaily said:


> It says "spammer douche" after the admins get to it, otherwise it's just a weird post and link by someone with a low post-count.


 
Ah okay, I understand now. Thank you for clarifying, really appreciate it.


----------



## Gravewalker (Jul 1, 2011)

A lotta replies to read but I'll throw my input in! Especially since it still floors me when someone I admire/idolized years ago loves a piece I do! I started out horribly, in comparison to the stuff I was seeing on VCL. But trades and friend's kept me going. And the drive to be better. 

Something odd, I've had happen often, is the opposite of what your original post is mentioning. Instead of ignoring the younger, or not as skilled artists, I love talking to them! And offering advice to those who speak up. But... I've been met with hostility rather often, and told I'm too good. Never known what to do about that. I just want to be of help since I've walked the same path. And it's never help offered without them asking! (usually by browsing journals or recent uploads) Just feels weird to be there for others, and told I'm not wanted.


----------



## Kailombax (Jul 5, 2011)

Gravewalker said:


> A lotta replies to read but I'll throw my input in! Especially since it still floors me when someone I admire/idolized years ago loves a piece I do! I started out horribly, in comparison to the stuff I was seeing on VCL. But trades and friend's kept me going. And the drive to be better.
> 
> Something odd, I've had happen often, is the opposite of what your original post is mentioning. Instead of ignoring the younger, or not as skilled artists, I love talking to them! And offering advice to those who speak up. But... I've been met with hostility rather often, and told I'm too good. Never known what to do about that. I just want to be of help since I've walked the same path. And it's never help offered without them asking! (usually by browsing journals or recent uploads) Just feels weird to be there for others, and told I'm not wanted.


 
I can relate actually. I may not be stupendously good but I also like to help out other artists who are trying to improve. Like making suggestions of the anatomy and all that but most of the time, they don't really use it... But yeah, I totally understand where you are coming from. And it sucks that they treat you like that ("Not being wanted because your too good".) It really shouldn't matter what your level is. We all have something in common, even if we are all on different levels most of the time. That we all love to draw. 

And I did take a look at your gallery, you definitely are quite good. I love your coloring style. ^^


----------



## RTDragon (Jul 5, 2011)

Kailombax said:


> I can relate actually. I may not be stupendously good but I also like to help out other artists who are trying to improve. Like making suggestions of the anatomy and all that but most of the time, they don't really use it... But yeah, I totally understand where you are coming from. And it sucks that they treat you like that ("Not being wanted because your too good".) It really shouldn't matter what your level is. We all have something in common, even if we are all on different levels most of the time. That we all love to draw.



You know i have noticed this a lot on other art sites when critique is applied there is bawwing and whiteknighting in the process. though i've been wanting to improve and take advice as much as i can.


----------



## Kailombax (Jul 8, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> You know i have noticed this a lot on other art sites when critique is applied there is bawwing and whiteknighting in the process. though i've been wanting to improve and take advice as much as i can.


 
I know that there are different types of critiques. From harsh to sugarcoated, etc. But really, the artist shouldn't baw about it, just try and take the critique in stride sort of speak? After all, it's not mean't to flame them (well most of the time it's not) but to help them work on their trouble areas.


----------



## RTDragon (Jul 8, 2011)

Though it's quite funny when it happens on sites like deviantart then i can tell who i should i not even bother to ask at all cost considering it's an art site.


----------



## Thaily (Jul 8, 2011)

I daresay even would-be insults can be used constructively sometimes, and what better way at annoying someone who hates you than to use their bile to better yourself/your work.


----------



## RTDragon (Jul 8, 2011)

Thaily said:


> I daresay even would-be insults can be used constructively sometimes, and what better way at annoying someone who hates you than to use their bile to better yourself/your work.



Wish that can be to say to certain people who i will not say.


----------



## _Willow_ (Jul 10, 2011)

Makes sense since I'm a crappy artist (lol) but I should at least be treated right


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2011)

_Willow_ said:


> Makes sense since I'm a crappy artist (lol) but I should at least be treated right



People will treat one right when they act right too.


----------

