# are there any furry potheads?



## mnfwctbrb (Feb 7, 2007)

im not ashamed to admit i like to smoke a little weed once in a while. i have my priorities in order, i dont just sit on the couch and smoke a lot of weed and eat oreos and pass out. pot doesnt effect me like that anyway, when i smoke i feel more ambitious and outgoing. and its not like it makes me do bad in school, i graduated, and i actually got very good grades.

i also feel that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol and ciggerettes. per weight marijuana has more tar than tobacco, but people tend to smoke atleast 10x less pot than tobacco, and smoke it less frequently. and if for no other reason, a stoner might be too paranoid to drive stoned than they would under the influence of alcohol.

i dont even like alcohol actually. it makes me feel like my senses have been numbed and i feel very slow and tend to make bad decisions. not that i think booze is all bad though, its just not for me.

so am i alone here? am i the only pothead on fchan? will you automatically think less of me for smoking pot?

edit: i said fchan but i ment FA.. im not high or anything! just sleepy. its almost 3am here.


----------



## Seras (Feb 7, 2007)

Um careful what you say on here hun ^_^;  you never know who hangs out here and you have admitted to being a minor c.c;


----------



## mnfwctbrb (Feb 7, 2007)

well i wouldnt be too worried about getting arrested or anything if thats what youre saying.. you could actually walk up to a cop and say "i do illegal drugs" and they cant do anything unless youre under the influence right then and there. i havent even smoked for weeks actually. but also the cops have much more important things to worry about on the internet, like child predators and identity theives. it costs thousands of dollars to do an investigation, no police department would spend thousands of dollars to convict a single pothead who would just continue smoking once they were released. the cops ive met have a soft attitude on marijuana anyway, they also see it as less harmful than alcohol. for one thing they never have to wrestle someone to the ground because they got too stoned, and someone who smokes weed isnt likely to commit any crimes out of paranoia anyway.


----------



## mnfwctbrb (Feb 7, 2007)

wait do you mean i admited to being a minor? or does c.c stand for something?

im not a minor in any case.


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Feb 7, 2007)

I agree with your point that marijuana is not the scary, dog-kicking, baby-slapping, gateway drug that seemingly most people perceive it to be. It's just a harmless plant that just makes your mind drift somewhere.

Now, that being said, I fell out of my short pot phase a while ago. Never found anything that special in it, not to mention I could be spending my money on much better things. Now I'd estimate I take a hit once every...7, 8 months, if that. And only if friends bought it and it's a special occasion or something. Doing it too often just seems...immature, to me.

/Peh, 3am?
//I'm on my second all-nighter of the week!
///5:13am here.
////Course scheduling. You college furs know the deal.


----------



## Acorndeer (Feb 7, 2007)

WelcomeTheCollapse said:
			
		

> Now I'd estimate I take a hit once every...7, 8 months, if that. And only if friends bought it and it's a special occasion or something. Doing it too often just seems...immature, to me.



Don't do drugs kids, drugs are bad 
Now.. Alcohol, that's manly shit that there!  nothings more sexy and hunky than raging shitfaced incoherent stumbling human male, A true bull! :lol:

And of course let's not forget the worst drug, MMOPRG's! Those deteriorate your body, your complexion and mind, and also affects your personality on a long run.
That's some drug that should be banned by law aye?


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Feb 7, 2007)

Acorndeer said:
			
		

> Don't do drugs kids, drugs are bad



Now, now, let's _research_ the drugs in question before throwing blanket statements, eh?


----------



## Cozmo (Feb 7, 2007)

Drugs are bad mmmmmmkay?


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

I don't even want to get started about this subject.... just...

<www.sinsebility.com>

That's MY site, and it says everything I think you need to know about weed.


EDIT: Ok, you've got me started. HOW CAN YOU SAY 'DRUGS ARE BAD' and just leave the subject there??? Don't you know that ANYTHING that effects the way your mind and body operate is a "drug" too? Drink a Coke, you've just done a drug. Smoke a cigarette, you've just done a drug. The only reason some drugs are illegal and others aren't is that, back in the day, the hilljacks that ran this country saw blacks and mexicans using them, and decided making them illegal would be a great way to throw them in prison. Do some fact-checking here.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

And another thing: I am smoking a little bit RIGHT NOW and I could still take anyone in an intelligent debate on this topic, and many others. Pot isn't dangerous, the laws are.


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Feb 7, 2007)

sunshyne said:
			
		

> Pot isn't dangerous, the laws are.



*nods*

It'd do everyone a little good to check out this page.

The "War on Drugs" is an ineffective, dangerous waste of money. Why not let the potheads have their plant when it endangers nobody, not even themselves? Check out this and this. Why are the nation's law enforcers still going after pot smokers? Because it's _damn_ profitable to them.

/Disclaimer: I do not advocate the use of serious drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, etc.
//That shit will ruin your life and the lives of those who love you.


----------



## facek (Feb 7, 2007)

mnfwctbrb said:
			
		

> ...per weight marijuana has more tar than tobacco...



There is no tar in tobacco or marijuana, when you burn anything and put it in your lungs you are putting flaming carbon against your soft tender delicate breathing tissue, marijuana might burn faster or slower and thus you realy inhale more smoke than you would in a cigarette. Doesn't matter what you smoke, you're still lining your lungs with carbon.


----------



## XeNoX (Feb 7, 2007)

Penn and Teller said:
			
		

> "It costs over 20 000 dollar per year to keep a pothead in prison. That's a lot more then it costs to have one living on your couch"




QFT


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Feb 7, 2007)

I would support pot use for medicinal purposes under prescription. I do not and will not support it for recreational use having seen way too many people I know throw their lives right into the shitter with such things. And in most cases it started with just pot and moved up from there to God knows what else, so saying it's not a gateway drug isn't always true.

For the record? I drink a lot of pop, and on the very rare occassion I'll have an alchoholic drink. That's it. Wow, I do drugs so I must be a hypocrite.


----------



## Rostam The Grey (Feb 7, 2007)

One of the biggest attractions of kids for doing drugs is the fact that you are not supposed to. We spend entirely too much money trying to stop drugs. When we could make sooo much money taxing drugs and cut out the crime related component. I say let anyone buy and take anything they want. If they want to ruin their lives that's up to them, it'll thin out the gene pool a little. They can just as easily do it with Alcohol or paint which are perfectly legal to buy. But at the same time, don't lock people away and punish their families simply because they like to smoke weed on special ocassions...


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

ArrowTibbs said:
			
		

> I would support pot use for medicinal purposes under prescription. I do not and will not support it for recreational use having seen way too many people I know throw their lives right into the shitter with such things. And in most cases it started with just pot and moved up from there to God knows what else, so saying it's not a gateway drug isn't always true.
> 
> For the record? I drink a lot of pop, and on the very rare occassion I'll have an alchoholic drink. That's it. Wow, I do drugs so I must be a hypocrite.



I don't understand how people can wave marijuana around as a "gateway drug" but we're supposed to believe legal drugs like alcohol and nicotine (and even OTC medications, which youths are now abusing) are somehow less so. I would guess MOST hard drug users tried alcohol, then marijuana, then whatever harder drug they graduated to, in that order. And the reson they go from marijuana to harder drugs is becuase both are illegal - where you find pot you're likely to find harder drugs if you just look a bit. So I would deny that POT had ever made anybody throw their lives in the shitter. Outside, of course, of people who get popped for a major marijuana-related offense and then do jail time and have a felony record. But that is the SYSTEM my friend, not the drug...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Feb 7, 2007)

Uhh yeah, no. I don't smoke pot, that's another stereotype I'd like to avoid as an artist.


----------



## Option7 (Feb 7, 2007)

mnfwctbrb said:
			
		

> so am i alone here? am i the only pothead on fchan? will you automatically think less of me for smoking pot?



Nooo, man. I smoke lots of weed. All the time. It's pretty much my life...
Some may call me a braindead failure but... um....

Lol, but seriously, I am very passionate about marijuana. I feel that the laws regarding it are completley unfair, and I also think that the general publics opinion of it is distorted. 
Overall, I'd say weed is good.

Oh, and I do agree that it's a gateway drug (was for me . Fortunatley, I'm not stupid, so I'm not gonna end up some homeless smackhead (touch wood).


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Feb 7, 2007)

sunshyne said:
			
		

> I don't understand how people can wave marijuana around as a "gateway drug" but we're supposed to believe legal drugs like alcohol and nicotine (and even OTC medications, which youths are now abusing) are somehow less so.



I am not denying that other drugs can be gateway drugs or that they are any less harsh on the body. 



			
				sunshyne said:
			
		

> I would guess MOST hard drug users tried alcohol, then marijuana, then whatever harder drug they graduated to, in that order. And the reson they go from marijuana to harder drugs is becuase both are illegal - where you find pot you're likely to find harder drugs if you just look a bit. So I would deny that POT had ever made anybody throw their lives in the shitter.



Actually so far as I know my friend went straight to pot and never really bothered with alchohol. Of course I can't say much to that since my relative was an alcholic, my other friend's sister had occassionally been drinking, and I don't quite know my cousin's husband. But I'm sure that all of those peoples' problems didn't have anything to do with pot use and selling of such whatsoever and that they would have never had problems with their various offenses if alchohol was illegal.



			
				sunshyne said:
			
		

> Outside, of course, of people who get popped for a major marijuana-related offense and then do jail time and have a felony record. But that is the SYSTEM my friend, not the drug...



People who sell marijuana are innocent then? It's not that people get addicted to this stuff and then need it desperately? Is that just the system? You do the crime, you do the time, my friend.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

Option7 said:
			
		

> mnfwctbrb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I always found it funny that most everyplace in the world, including most of Canada, still uses the term "cannabis" instead of "marijuana". "Marijuana" was a word popularized by the American propaganda machine to link the drug's use with Mexican immigrants in the 1900s...

And, since the rest of the world doesn't freak out over pot like America does, lots of industrialized nations have made personal possession legal (Spain has, Germany has, or course the Netherlands... and I'm sure I'm leaving a bunch out).

I, like you, smoke pretty much every day. But I am by no means a brain-dead failure, and I doubt you are either. Sadly, many people would find it amazing that a heavy marijuana user like myself can hold a job, do well in school, and have plenty of good friends. Fubar? Definitely.

EDIT: And ArrowTibbs, I don't know what you're on about, but marijuana is NOT a physically addictive drug, and it's one of the least mentally-addictive substances around. Pot dealers don't profit because they get people hopelessly addicted to their product, they prosper because their product is scarce but widely sought, and therefore EXPENSIVE. Very, very few people get legitimately addicted to weed. I mean, have you ever even smoked a real joint??? The reason (as the DEA loves to point out) that the number of admissions to treatment centers for marijuana is one the rise is that courts are ordering mandatory treatment for first offenders more and more these days... Bottom line is this: sure, marijuana has some addicting properties and it makes you lazy and unmotivated for the time you're on it. But that's not a reason for the government to tell me I can't use it, and if I do they can throw me in jail for it, deprive me of my liberty, and make it a bitch for me to ever get a decent job again. This is the "home of the free" for gods sake, and you want to keep criminal a substance that, at the most, makes me temporarily happy, hungry and sleepy?


----------



## Cozmo (Feb 7, 2007)

sunshyne said:
			
		

> I don't even want to get started about this subject.... just...
> 
> <www.sinsebility.com>
> 
> ...



Dude i was just referanceing to south park , take the joke.


----------



## Xax (Feb 7, 2007)

ArrowTibbs said:
			
		

> People who sell marijuana are innocent then? It's not that people get addicted to this stuff and then need it desperately? Is that just the system? You do the crime, you do the time, my friend.



Dude, um, marijuana has something like a 3% addiction rate and it's easier to quit than tobacco. There aren't marijuana addicts in the same way there are crack addicts.

"Regular users of marijuana can develop a marked tolerance to the drug, but physical dependence characterized by significant withdrawal symptoms has not been well established in either human or animal studies."

Now _this_ part I'm not going to back up with statistics because I'm lazy and not totally sure that I'm correct here, but I _suspect_ most people who use marijuana as a gateway drug are drawn into the, uh, seamy underbelly of the drug world simply because to get marijuana, you have to commit illegal acts. You can't just walk down to the corner hemporium and buy some, you have to go out and find a dealer (who in a lot of cases carries other, harder drugs).

*[EDIT]:* oh yeah, and potheads are stupid.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

If I understand you correctly, you also said you know alcoholics and heavy drinkers - but you don't think they'd keep drinking if alcohol were made illegal??? Like alcohol is some type of "soft" intoxicant compared to weed? Prohibition in the 20s sure didn't bear that out...


----------



## Hanazawa (Feb 7, 2007)

Most of the time, alcoholism isn't about the need to drink or take another drink because of an actual addiction to the substance; Alcoholism comes from people who use alcohol as an escape from their problems and can't drink in moderation (one drink always turns into many). So it is a bit inaccurate to compare "alcohol addiction" to addictions to other drugs (ETA: unless the people overusing those other drugs are also using it as an escape rather than being physically addicted). My guess is, most of the people who dodged prohibition weren't actually alcoholics, they just liked drinking it and thought the law was stupid (and it was).

That's all I have to say...


----------



## kyubi_youma (Feb 7, 2007)

not doing it and most likely never will .....not that they are bad or anything i just would rather keep my lungs, liver, and who knows what else as healthy as possible.... besides drugs generally have the opposite effect on me anyways.....wheres the point when you most likely won't get the rush?


----------



## Selunca (Feb 7, 2007)

I don't like pot because of the fact that every friend I've seen start doing it, as turned into a shell of their former self. These people used to be bright, with happy futures.

Now, they have about four braincells and they act like it. Even when their not high, they are retarded. Their speech is constantly slurred, and their eyes are always red. 

I don't apprechaite Pot, or Cigerettes. Drinking is okay to me because its not addictive in my mind, and you choose how much you take in a drink. Where as pot, when you buy it, its a mixed bag. For all you know its laced. 

For the record? I automatically look down at anyone who does pot. Dont' like it? Tough, don't tell me about your drug habbits.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> My guess is, most of the people who dodged prohibition weren't actually alcoholics, they just liked drinking it and thought the law was stupid (and it was).
> 
> That's all I have to say...



Exactly. And no matter what your health teacher taught you, no matter what the DARE officer said, or what Freevibe or Above the Influence tries to tell you, that is the reason almost EVERYBODY who smokes weed does so as well. It is not because they're addicted, give me a break. So, if you think prohibition was stupid I assume you think marijuana prohibition is stupid as well? Otherwise, you have to think that marijuana is really and truly much worse for you and more addicting than alcohol, and that is just false. Wrong. Incorrect. The opposite of reality. Etc.


----------



## XeNoX (Feb 7, 2007)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> So it is a bit inaccurate to compare "alcohol addiction" to addictions to other drugs (ETA: unless the people overusing those other drugs are also using it as an escape rather than being physically addicted).



The case with most alcoholics is they appear totally normal when they are "drunk" enough, but as soon they are not they begin to shake and have all the usual symptons of a drug deprivation, which usually is a sign of physical addiction. Mostly those are alterations in the neurotransmitter receptors, the body "needs" the drug to stay in it's endocrine equilibrium. That'S the case for almost all drugs, although for pot it is a little bit different, thus it does not make PHYSICAL addictive in any way.
Alcohole is different in another respect though: most drugs enter the body, go directly to the brain, develop their effect. Alcohole(s) are tiny. They quickly saturate all tissue, intoxicating the whole body and doing damage there along with it's metabolites.
That's why it is refered to as a "dirty drug"



			
				Selunca said:
			
		

> Now, they have about four braincells and they act like it. Even when their not high, they are retarded. Their speech is constantly slurred, and their eyes are always red.
> 
> I don't apprechaite Pot, or Cigerettes. Drinking is okay to me because its not addictive in my mind, and you choose how much you take in a drink.



same as above on the addiction
as on the effect it has on people: i know people who take it that are bright, do it responsible, and in some cases really helps them. Then I know people who are dumb irresposible idiots that I would never like to deal with ever again if it were possible (it is not unforunatelly)...the kind of people that drives a car stoned and are lazy and useless otherwise too

bottomline: I beg to differ


----------



## kyubi_youma (Feb 7, 2007)

lmao then there  are the idiots who do it just to spite the system.....lmao it says no but im gonna do it just because it says no...those types ......idiots....


----------



## 1337intellect (Feb 7, 2007)

What's wrong with "those types," Ky?


----------



## XeNoX (Feb 7, 2007)

1337intellect said:
			
		

> What's wrong with "those types," Ky?



they are "lmao"

honestly, it's what you expect. It's part of human behaviour. Even animal bahaviour ^^


----------



## Hanazawa (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm actually currently more concerned with the encroachment on tobacco smoker's rights than with anything regarding pot; I don't smoke either substance nor do I care to but my mom smokes tobacco cigarettes and some of the laws, taxes, and ordinances they've been passing recently (at least in my state) are pretty freaking ridiculous. She buys her smokes online now because even with shipping costs it's cheaper that way.

Though (ironically?) I've always been of the opinion that marijuana/cannabis should be legalized/decriminalized in the US on the sole basis that if it's legal it can get taxed. Just... taxed as a normal item with regular sales taxes, none of this BS "smokers tax" crap. People want improved transportation around here, they raise the general sales tax, but when they want to improve the school system, they raise cigarette taxes... WTF. 
</ramble>


----------



## Seras (Feb 7, 2007)

Well most drugs are illegal for a reason..


----------



## kyubi_youma (Feb 7, 2007)

tobbaco is some deadly crap.....nicotine has a really low ld50(lethal dosage 50%,or the amount needed to kill fifty percent of a tested population) it lower than most illegal drugs (lower ld50 = less needed to kill) nicotine has an oral ld-50 of 40-60 mg
thc on the other hand ld-50=50 and 86 g for a 68 kg (150 lb) female or male person respectively.This would be equivalent to 1-1.8 kg of cannabis with a 5% THC content (roughly average) taken orally.
(taken from wikipedia)


----------



## nullenigma (Feb 7, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> Well most drugs are illegal for a reason..



...which, in most cases, is to further political careers.


----------



## kyubi_youma (Feb 7, 2007)

nullenigma said:
			
		

> Seras said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lmao QFT QFFT QFFHT


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

Selunca said:
			
		

> For the record? I automatically look down at anyone who does pot. Dont' like it? Tough, don't tell me about your drug habbits.



That's perfectly fine but it's kind of sad. That's like saying you look down on anyone who listens to a certain kind of music, or dresses in some way, regardless of whatever type of person they really are.

I am not an addict or a dope fiend, and neither are any of my friends so get that damned straight. Smoking is a lifestyle decision we make because we feel it improves the quality and enjoyment of our lives. When we can't smoke or it isn't practical, we QUIT. We don't commit crimes (besides smoking as it is currently a crime) and we don't pressure anybody into picking up smoking. So, if you feel this makes you a better person than me, then I'm sorry, but you're just another bigot...


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

Selunca said:
			
		

> I don't apprechaite Pot, or Cigerettes. Drinking is okay to me because its not addictive in my mind, and you choose how much you take in a drink. Where as pot, when you buy it, its a mixed bag. For all you know its laced.



Reason # 446236134261364 why we should have a legalized an regulated industry for it.

P.S. It is ABUNDANTLY clear that you have never so much as touched weed in your life... because you think it does things that it simply doesn't do (like kill brain cells, sorry that doesn't happen)

P.P.S. I picked a hell of a day to drop into the forums just for a kick...


----------



## Surgat (Feb 7, 2007)

[I'm an occasional smoker.]



			
				ArrowTibbs said:
			
		

> ...
> People who sell marijuana are innocent then? It's not that people get addicted to this stuff and then need it desperately? Is that just the system? You do the crime, you do the time, my friend.



Pot is about as addicting as caffeine. _Nobody ever_ needs pot desperately. 



			
				Selunca said:
			
		

> don't like pot because of the fact that every friend I've seen start doing it, as turned into a shell of their former self. These people used to be bright, with happy futures.
> 
> Now, they have about four braincells and they act like it. Even when their not high, they are retarded. Their speech is constantly slurred, and their eyes are always red.



There's no evidence to suggest that pot causes brain damage, there is no requirement that one's pot use is _heavy_ use, and your experiences differ from mine. So there. 



			
				Selunca said:
			
		

> For the record? I automatically look down at anyone who does pot. Dont' [sic] like it? Tough, don't tell me about your drug habbits. [sic]



For the record, I automatically look down at anyone who can't spell and anyone who looks down on other people for something so inconsequential. Don't like it? Tough, use a spell-checker and don't be so ignorant.


----------



## Grimfang (Feb 7, 2007)

Ah, yes... laws are starting to turn against smokers (cigarettes). In Virginia, restaurants are to be smoke-free before long, as far as I know. I think restaurant owners should be able to choose if they want smoking or not. And people can choose to eat there or not, depending on there likeness of the smoke.

I've smoked pot, never got hooked. I think it's good for a once in a while thing. I don't like the daily use of it. It's no better than alcoholism.
But, yes, alcohol is much more harmful than weed. And cigarettes... well, it depends how many smokes they have. Some smoke a pack a day, some smoke 4 a day.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 7, 2007)

I smoke because I happen to like to indulge in pleasure because I only have one life and I like to spend it the way I want to. I only smoke once or twice a week because I am not a slave to the drug (even though weed isn't really that addictive) and know there is other things in life then to get high. I also personally think anyone who comes and treats me like sh*t because I do something to my own body that isn't in no-way-shape-or-form hurting you, are already too closed-minded to even talk like civilized human beings so their opinions don't matter here. I'm sorry but anyone who comes and tells me that they are better then me are full of it.


----------



## Surgat (Feb 7, 2007)

*Famous cannabis users.*

A few notable pot users:

Carl Sagan, Bill Clinton, Friedrich Nietzsche, emperors, George Soros, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Zachary Taylor, Franklin Pierce, John Kerry, Lewis Carroll, Oscar Wilde, Pablo Picasso, Pythagoras, Richard Feynman, Robert Anton Wilson, Salvador Dali, Stephen King, Terry Pratchett, William Butler Yeats, William Shakespeare, and Zoroaster. 

I guess you can accomplish a lot with only four braincells!

http://www.slatts.fsworld.co.uk/famous.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_iconic_smokers#Cannabis_smokers


----------



## Seras (Feb 7, 2007)

OMG Lies x.x  everyone knows "pot" was invented in the 60s!


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 7, 2007)

Yeah, and for anyone who STILL think cannabis users are mindless and lazy, and think about nothing but constantly getting high, check out this forum: www.420times.com

It's a group of some really diverse and interesting people, and the conversations there are often extremely interesting to participate in, even if you don't smoke! And the most amazing thing I've noticed, after having been a member of that forum for several years (along with other forums) is that nobody there EVER has something derogratory to say about another member. It is uncanny how open-minded the place is.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 7, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> OMG Lies x.x  everyone knows "pot" was invented in the 60s!



LOL.:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## kyubi_youma (Feb 7, 2007)

i want to see the proof of the icons who use weed  i mean more than one shot use....


----------



## kyubi_youma (Feb 7, 2007)

i mean where did they get the proof of that as it would seem kind of hard to proove without physical evidence


----------



## Selunca (Feb 8, 2007)

lolololololol.

I don't care if Pot has recorded effects or not. I go by what I see, not by what a paper tells me to see.

Also? I have tired pot. I was tricked into eatting a brownie loaded with the shit when i was young. Not cool.

As so what if I'm narrow minded about an /illegal drug/. There are worse things to be narrowminded about then a drug that messes your brain cells up.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Most people don't like to eat shit flavored brownies. :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Aikon (Feb 8, 2007)

I once got stoned and I've never been so !@#$ing hungry in my life.  I ate an entire pan of Taco dip by myself, I'll see if my brother still has the photo. 

I went on to eat 6 Crunch bars after that and some ungodly amount of mountain pies.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Aikon said:
			
		

> I once got stoned and I've never been so !@#$ing hungry in my life.  I ate an entire pan of Taco dip by myself, I'll see if my brother still has the photo.
> 
> I went on to eat 6 Crunch bars after that and some ungodly amount of mountain pies.



LOL!


----------



## Icarus (Feb 8, 2007)

...
isn't pot illegal?
o.=.o


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Icarus said:
			
		

> ...
> isn't pot illegal?
> o.=.o



Sadly, yes.


----------



## TeeGee (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd rather spend my money on something useful and, I don't know, something that I can't get jail time for having. You want to hallucinate? Stay up for days on end! 


[size=xx-small]Note: I do not condone nor condemn the use of drugs in a recreational manner. Warranty void if removed. Not applicable in some states. Please consult a physician before taking. Offer only redeemable before 6/3/08.[/size]


----------



## Bokracroc (Feb 8, 2007)

It's cheaper to get high off of a permanent marker.


----------



## Seras (Feb 8, 2007)

^ hehehe...


----------



## Icarus (Feb 8, 2007)

thegreathamster said:
			
		

> Icarus said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



so technically, this is a beeg place where a bunch of people that have smoked an illegal drug have come to confess?  cuz that's all i"m getting from this.


----------



## Bokracroc (Feb 8, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> ^ hehehe...


It's a fact backed-up by the Anti-Drug cops that came to my school last year. We had to hang around the libary for a while after the presentation. I was talking to one of the guys and I came out with the question how expensive it was, he said "Alot" and I repiled, "Huh, I'll stick to permanent markers then, they're cheap.". We both laughed and he agreed (but still told me I shouldn't to it).


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Icarus said:
			
		

> thegreathamster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



[sarcasm]Oh yeah, we better watch what we say because the FBI is watching FA and they'll arrest everyone who says they smoke pot. But since we are admitting to doing something illegal, I suppose I should admit that I J-walk, don't pick up my dogs poop in the park, and that I stole bubble gum when I was 7. Oh shit, I screwed up BIG TIME! I'm sure I will be getting life now. Oh no![/sarcasm] :roll:


----------



## Seras (Feb 8, 2007)

Eh, we should end this thread, its stirring up angry thoughts in the hearts of people


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> Eh, we should end this thread, its stirring up angry thoughts in the hearts of people



Are you talking about me? I was being sarcastic because of how much ridiculous that comment was. I'm not going to jail for saying I smoke pot and the police don't give a f*ck what a couple of furries say they do behind closed doors.


----------



## Epsereth (Feb 8, 2007)

TeeGee said:
			
		

> I'd rather spend my money on something useful and, I don't know, something that I can't get jail time for having. You want to hallucinate? Stay up for days on end!



Doesn't make you hallucinate.


----------



## Xax (Feb 8, 2007)

Selunca said:
			
		

> lolololololol.
> 
> I don't care if Pot has recorded effects or not. I go by what I see, not by what a paper tells me to see.
> 
> ...



Dude. First of all, pot was illegalized in the beginning because it was smoked by low-class immigrants that the government disliked. Since then, pretty much all of the panels convened to research the drug have found that hey, it's significantly less damaging on your body than either tobacco or alcohol. But it hasn't been legalized because a lot of people (including many government authorities!) _still_ consider it as a drug used mostly by low-class citizens, and because the government would hate to admit it's prohitition all over again-- that is to say, that it's fueling the criminal underworld, as it creates a huge market that only people operating outside the law can exploit.

Oh, and also when people say "pot messes up your brain cells" they're generally, uh, misinformed. Any drug you take messes up your brains cells, because that's what being intoxicated _means_. Alcohol shuts down parts of your brain to create the 'drunk' sensation, marijuana overstimulates parts of your brain to create the 'high' sensation, etc. But that 'damage' wears off as you sober up.

Secondly, by that logic you would be okay with taking a drug that would kill you instantly provided you had never heard of or seen anyone taking it, even if people had told you it was lethal. Nice going there.

Thirdly, okay yeah people trying to sneak drugs into your system is never good, but really that kind of stuff happens to people all the time (that is to say, stupid people doing stupid things to other people) and really, it has no bearing on the debate in general. ...but considering you _did_ say that you valued anecdotal evidence over, uh, _actual_ evidence, well, at least you're consistent.

...I bet this thread is gonna reach the "discussion limit" _real_ soon.


----------



## Acorndeer (Feb 8, 2007)

sunshyne said:
			
		

> I don't even want to get started about this subject.... just...
> 
> <www.sinsebility.com>
> 
> ...



Ahh.. over reaction to a southpark joke. Furry drama is alive and well!

And now... I did praised alcohol in my post, if that didn't reveal the jestery mood of my post, nothing does.
I don't care if people dope themselves blind, it's their problem as long as they keep it out of my face, as I don't like to be harasshed by a junkies and am then glad to excuse some violent acts as "self defence".

Do drugs, as much as you  want, none of my problem! I am fit enough to defend myself, and eager enough to do it before it is too late if faced by a drug crazed narc.

What comes to pot, cigars are lot more dangerous and harmful than pot, and I smoke cigars. Not often, but I do, and don't even get high from that so it is only culinary choice.
So you, go and smoke all the weed, inject all the smack you want and read your factsheets thinking it's all good and illegal only because white men want Nergoes off the streets and to be fed in prisons by societys tax money, but do not expect me to care.

I'm happy with what I get legally. Because I don't have any urge to escape reality I don't need mind altering drugs. As long as I have whiskey, cigars and good thick beef in BBQ sauce I'm content enough. And if I need to expand my consciousness there's always books, movies and music. And if I am feeling creative there's also herbal tea.

If it was up to me no drug would be illegal, but age limited, and maybe under recipe. no matter how vicious shite it'd be.  At least people could do suicides without so much mess.


----------



## kitetsu (Feb 8, 2007)

After hearing that excessive use of pot, Ice, crack, LSDs, etc, makes your face look horribly uglier than you'd currently look, grossly distorts your speech, make your life generally worse, and myself being a passive smoker for years because of how my whole family smokes in front of my face...

I'd rather die from choking on my favorite chocolate than from the peace pipe's fagass rainbow yellow submarine smoke... At least that way i can die "tastefully".

*Drugs uhr bayed. Mmmkaaahy?*

PS: Stereotyping killz.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 8, 2007)

Acorndeer said:
			
		

> sunshyne said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## foxkun (Feb 8, 2007)

I think what everyone needs to realise is that everyone's going to be biased no matter what you say to them. Those who have never tried and believe the system are going to say it's horrible, and those who have tried are going to say it should be legalised because so long as you are *responsible* about it, it's not going to effect you. So you won't really be able to sway anyone either way.

This was a topic asking if anyone smoked it, and the answer is predominantly yes, which I actually kind of figured considering this is technically an "alternate lifestyle" affiliated forum, kinda, I guess.

The ultimate problem is if you make something illegal that means that people are going to want to try it *because* it's illegal.  You could make shoelaces illegal and they'd turn all the rage, seriously.

Now I could say that the problem with the DARE program is that it just tells you that "Drugs are bayd," but the actual intent is to instruct kids exactly what the drugs do and show them that they don't have to give in to peer pressure. The problem with the DARE program is that they're doing it in the 6th grade and not again in junior high and high school because THAT is when they're having issues with it (at least in my area). 

And do I think it should be legalised? Yeah, as much as I say that guns shouldn't have as much of a hard time to acquire - because of the illegal factor. Go talk to someone in England and ask them if they have a gun problem (to note: police don't even carry around guns most of the time there). I don't think it should be used all willy nilly though - regulation is a good thing (although even that can go too far. I had a teacher with a chronic cough that couldn't get enough dayquil because of the pseudoephedryne, or whatever.)

As far as my output, I'm not a pothead, I don't smoke it irregularly. I'm allergic to most things of an herbal nature. I tried once and I felt like my lungs were going to bleed. Just because I've had a bad experience with it doesn't mean that others couldn't use it perfectly responsibly. Note the responsibly part though, I've seen the people with the pothead drawl with eyes that've dragged down to basset hound level and permanently red. That is a sign of overuse and things destroying your system right there.

*tosses two cents into the bowl*


----------



## Arshes Nei (Feb 8, 2007)

Actually, drug use is a lot like driving. Everyone else feels they got their act together and it's everyone else that has the problem.


----------



## foxkun (Feb 8, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Actually, drug use is a lot like driving. Everyone else feels they got their act together and it's everyone else that has the problem.



That was strangely one of my resolutions - to not yell at other drivers. They've got their reasons, really.

No, I didn't do it out the window. It was normally in my head. Yes, I'm a weenie. Say it with me - weenie. I knew ya could.

I would say the real problem is the crackheads that think that. Because you know they'd just as soon kill someone for the money than actually try to quit, which is really sad.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 8, 2007)

foxkun said:
			
		

> I think what everyone needs to realise is that everyone's going to be biased no matter what you say to them. Those who have never tried and believe the system are going to say it's horrible, and those who have tried are going to say it should be legalised because so long as you are *responsible* about it, it's not going to effect you. So you won't really be able to sway anyone either way.
> 
> This was a topic asking if anyone smoked it, and the answer is predominantly yes, which I actually kind of figured considering this is technically an "alternate lifestyle" affiliated forum, kinda, I guess.
> 
> ...




THANK YOU! You are my new hero. Someone who doesn't smoke, but realizes it just isn't the evil thing everyone thinks it is, and it certainly doesn't belong to be illegal.

Everything aside, this is going to be my last post in this thread. If fact, after I post this I am going to try to never come back to it again, because I know I will never be able to change some peoples minds. I actually was distracted throughout my International Politics class thinking about the arguments people have made on here, and how they should be approached, and that's not healthy... However I am studying to be a lawyer

But a lot of you are being unneccessarily closed minded about something it is apparent you know very little about. And some say that if I get caught with a joint some day and spend the weekend in jail over it, then I deserve it because I'm "addicted" to an illegal and "dangerous" drug. Excuse me if that makes my blood boil...

I just want to, one more time, suggest anyone who thinks prohibition is a good thing check out www.sinsebility.com and www.mpp.org, because there is so much that you are misinformed about, and it's not your fault. Anti-drug coalitions have the monopoly on TV and radio ads, as well as what is taught in our schools, so I can only expect large portions of our population to be under-informed. The two most common arguments I've heard in this thread is "it's addictive" and "it screws your mind up even when you aren't on it", and one is only true to a very small extent while the other is just false.

-PEACE (something else you usually hear from a smoker...)

P.S. Apparently my getting riled up has made me blind to sarcasm. If I overreacted to something you posted as a joke, I'm sorry.


----------



## Cozmo (Feb 8, 2007)

Put tax on hash and see where it goes >_>


----------



## Xax (Feb 8, 2007)

foxkun said:
			
		

> I think what everyone needs to realise is that everyone's going to be biased no matter what you say to them. Those who have never tried and believe the system are going to say it's horrible, and those who have tried are going to say it should be legalised because so long as you are *responsible* about it, it's not going to effect you. So you won't really be able to sway anyone either way.



But what about the people who don't use it, but support legalization? Or the theoretical group of people who use it, but don't suppost legalization... although I don't think they exist, really.


----------



## Hanazawa (Feb 8, 2007)

Xax said:
			
		

> Or the theoretical group of people who use it, but don't suppost legalization... although I don't think they exist, really.



Dealers


----------



## quark (Feb 8, 2007)

Xax said:
			
		

> foxkun said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm one of those people right there. I've tried it once, but on the whole feel that my time and money would be better spent on other things. That and I don't enjoy the feeling of being intoxicated, which is why I rarely ever drink.
For the most part, I dislike the idea of people who drink to excess or smoke (tobacco or marijuana) regularily.  It just strikes me as stupid, and a waste of time.  
However, I do support the legalisation of marijuana. And I hang out with people who smoke pot, and I really like them. I might judge a little in my mind, but I'm a judgemental person overall, and I would never give them a lecture about what they choose to do in their spare time.  So long as they don't pressure me to smoke pot, and so long as they respect me enough to not do it when I'm around, then it's not a problem with me.
So basically what I'm saying here is mutual respect. If you want me to respect you and not hassle you for what you choose to do in your spare time, then respect me enough to not do it around me if you know I have a problem with it.


----------



## Seras (Feb 8, 2007)

Lets all forget this anger and dance ^_^


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Oh noes, EMOS!! RUN!!!


----------



## Seras (Feb 8, 2007)

Cocaine is a hellva drug


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 8, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> Cocaine is a hellva drug



I tried that. Its a good high except the fact the kitten won't stop scratching. And then when it died, the SMELL was horrific. I had horrible morning breath for weeks. :x


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 9, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> Cocaine is a hellva drug



Ok, I'm glad I stopped back by for a look. That image is my new favorite thing in the whole world!


----------



## Bokracroc (Feb 9, 2007)

Damn, Bandwidth Exceeded 
I wanna see teh funnieh picture.


----------



## FurrySurvey (Feb 9, 2007)

I've got two words for you: Bill Hicks.

(He was an awesome pro-drugs comedian for those who don't know anything )


----------



## shy (Feb 9, 2007)

I am really glad I missed this post in its prime. 

In other news, I do just about every drug OTHER than ganja. I just don't like what the ganj does to me. Makes me twitchy. In some scenarios, like if I'm chillin on pillows drinkin sangria and bein fat with fat people then yeah, pass the dutchie and I'm cool. But if I have to do things like "walk", "partake in social conversation" or "anything other than be fat and chillax", fuck it. Can't do it.

Also: Smoking pot does make me hallucinate. Not sleeping makes me hallucinate. Having a bad day makes me hallucinate. Got a problem with that. Guess it makes for good stories, but it also makes me paranoid of things like sudden movements and shadows. So now I walk around with knives and shit on me. But drugs didn't do that too me, being fucked in the head did that too me.

Also also: This ain't no confession, its a fucking celebration. I fuckin' love drugs, I love food, I love sex, I love dancing, I love blowin' shit up, I love art, I love a lot of things. I also work full time, go to school full time, pay my taxes excersize and have no regrets. This the part where I say, "Keep on Truckin'?"


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Feb 9, 2007)

FurrySurvey said:
			
		

> I've got two words for you: Bill Hicks.
> 
> (He was an awesome pro-drugs comedian for those who don't know anything )



"And if you don't think drugs did anything for us, I want you to go home right now, take all of your records and CDs, and burn them. Because the musicians that made that music? Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreally fuckin' high on drugs"

/<3


----------



## Get-dancing (Feb 9, 2007)

Im defenetly gonna smoke the buddah if they legalise it. But I could probably get off with doing it now. Even if my folks knew. Afterall, my parents have let me do far worse.


----------



## TeeGee (Feb 9, 2007)

Get-dancing said:
			
		

> Afterall, my parents have let me do far worse.



What, like, be a troll on a furry forum? :|


----------



## Seras (Feb 9, 2007)

Well goats love trolls c.c


----------



## TeeGee (Feb 9, 2007)

Seras said:
			
		

> Well goats love trolls c.c



Which reminds me, can I borrow a goat for tonight's sacrifice?


----------



## Option7 (Feb 9, 2007)

shy said:
			
		

> Also: Smoking pot does make me hallucinate. Not sleeping makes me hallucinate. Having a bad day makes me hallucinate. Got a problem with that. Guess it makes for good stories, but it also makes me paranoid of things like sudden movements and shadows. So now I walk around with knives and shit on me. But drugs didn't do that too me, being fucked in the head did that too me.



Pot made me paranoid... If I'm walking home by myself (my area isn't the nicest place) I sometimes add about 20 minutes onto my journey just because of the possibility of chavs... (it's a long story -.-)


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 9, 2007)

Option7 said:
			
		

> shy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have bad paranoia from pot, too. I see why people say all conspiracy types are most likely regular pot smokers. :lol:


----------



## Xax (Feb 10, 2007)

No, clearly it's just that makes you notice the government's mind control rays. THAT'S WHY IT WAS MADE ILLEGAL.


----------



## Growly (Feb 10, 2007)

I am not really against pot, but I don't think I'd do it- I make an ass out of myself enough without drugs, imagine how bad I'd be on them!


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 10, 2007)

Xax said:
			
		

> No, clearly it's just that makes you notice the government's mind control rays. THAT'S WHY IT WAS MADE ILLEGAL.



HOLY SHIT, YOU'RE RIGHT!!! I knew the government was after me! They all are going to brainwash us with their commercials and make us another slave to corporate america! :shock:


----------



## mnfwctbrb (Feb 11, 2007)

whoa this thread got big. sorry i havent been around much but ive been busy. ill try to read all of this tonight if i get a chance but ill get back to everyone sooner or later. hope i didnt start any trouble


----------



## DragonRift (Feb 11, 2007)

This always fascinated me.  Cigarettes eventually deteriorate your lungs and cause emphysema or cancer... each leading to your death.  They also portray themselves as a public annoyance to non-smokers.  However, cigarettes aren't illegal.  Alcohol, when consumed in large quantities, eats away at your liver, thins your blood, causes individuals to lose consciousness, become violent, or simply turn into a belligerent asshole.  Your visual perception drops drastically, you have hardly any reaction time to anything, and you usually become more aggressive.  Illegal?  Pretty much only if you're driving or out causing trouble.

Marijuana?  Let's see.  Can lead to the same aftermath as cigarettes... The effects are far less intense than a drunk person, since the average pot-user is too damn lazy to even think about causing trouble.  A person behind the wheel while on weed is not likely to go any faster than 10~15 miles per hour...  and THAT's FAST to them.  Minit-marts rake in tons of cash from them, due to their sudden munchie cravings... and they PAY for everything.  Most smokers only use it in the privacy of their own homes, and when was the last time you heard about a high person picking a fight with someone?  Yet marijuana is illegal.

Your arguments about how bad weed is totally contradicts the much harsher effects of other addictive substances.  I don't smoke it.  Never had the desire to, to be honest.  Well, that and I didn't like the taste of it.  You have no idea how much of a positive effect our society would experience if weed would just get legalized.  Less jail space wasted on folks with "possession".  Selling them in stores with cigarettes (with the same age restrictions of course) would put the street dealers out of business, resulting in less crime.  The economy would get a definite boost,  because you KNOW they'd tax the hell out of it.

Making it illegal isn't going to stop the person from getting it.  If it's legal for someone to go to a bar and get hammered, it should be perfectly legal for them to kick back at home and blaze up.


----------



## Seras (Feb 11, 2007)

Actually Alcohol is good for you, but not to get drunk every night.


----------



## GrinninCroc (Feb 11, 2007)

Penn and Teller said:
			
		

> "It costs over 20 000 dollar per year to keep a pothead in prison. That's a lot more then it costs to have one living on your couch"


When I saw this, I immediatly thought: But if they're in prision, I dont have to put up with them when they dont wake up till 3pm, and cant be bothered to shower for weeks on end. I had a roomie like that once. 

Seriously though, I'm an ex-user... And I doubt if I qualified as a user in the first place, I didnt do it very much at all. 

Sure it was fun, I got the giggles and was really freindy with a bunch of random people, but it has it's downsides. 

I got the paranoia effect once, when I was staying at a friend-of-a-friends. This particular Foaf was a bit of a shady character, and was a little scary. That night, I couldnt sleep, and spent the whole night convinced, and I mean *Convinced*, that this guy was gonna come down, tape me up and assrape me. Sure it's funny in hindsight, but at the time I was shitting bricks and it's not an experience I'd like to repeat.  

But the second, and most important reason I dont smoke is because I take antidepressants. 

My brain cant produce the correct level of chemicals on its own as it is, and needs a very delicate balance of drugs to keep it stable, so the worst thing for me to do is throw a brain-affecting drug like weed into the mix. I even avoid Alchahol and large amounts of caffene or sugar for the same reasons. 

The latter one is a individual one, just for me I guess, same as people with allergies cant enjoy a pack of KP nuts, but I think it's releivant to be aware that the stuff can and will afect your brain, your perception and your experiences, and that not all those experiences are good and fun. 

But still, you guys have your own lives to lead, and I'm sure you'll descover, as I did, what you can and cant, or should and shouldnt do. 

... can you guys tell me which side of the fence I'm on? Because I'm not that sure myself...


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Feb 11, 2007)

New article to prove *Penn and Teller*'s point: Linky


----------



## Orthodox Fox (Feb 11, 2007)

No drugs are beneficial in my eyes. Whatsoever. To quibble over which ones are worse is nonsense. It is like arguing over which wars in history were worse. In all of them, people died...both the ones fighting the wars and innocents as well. Every drug on this earth has caused harm to someone. Let me give one of our favorites as an example:  A list of symptoms of overdose on this drug are:    
    * Sleeping trouble
    * Muscle twitching
    * Confusion
    * In and out of consciousness
    * Urination - increased
    * Increased thirst
    * Death
    * Fever
    * Breathing trouble
    * Vomiting
    * Diarrhea
    * Irregular heartbeat
    * Rapid heart beat
    * Hallucinations
    * Dizziness
    * Convulsions

And this is CAFFEINE.
Now, one might say, "Well that is an extreme and people who do the drug responsibly should not worry." I simply cannot understand why people risk their health and lives on something that causes a short stupor of "relief".  And ANYONE who thinks for ONE second that the peddling of illegal drugs is "victim less" I will have words with. People are killed in violent battles over these drugs worldwide and it would NOT stop if it was made legal. I am so sure that all of these international drug dealers will just lay down their arms, money and goods and start selling gummy bears should a few select countries legalize some major drugs. But of course, it is never the "individuals" fault. It is never the person who DOES the drugs fault... it is always that of someone else's. Drugs destroy and kill. They cause our minds to be clouded, our bodies poisoned and our reflexes weakened. They serve only the individual in a time when we all need to band together. Just because one does less harm than another does not free it of responsibility, nor the people to peddle them. Marijuana has caused its fair share of tragedy. Perhaps not so much as Alcohol or stronger drugs, but it makes no difference in my eyes. I weep for days when human beings relied on their own bodies to survive, rather than drugs that serve only to dull the senses.
Drugs for the pursuit of pleasure or escape are a travesty to me. Do I hate people who do them? Of course not. Do I hate the drugs themselves? Absolutely. I LOATHE them and the misery, death and gloom they spread.

I find it sad that so many are willing to risk their health, their well being, their very lives for a moments pleasure....
But how many are willing to risk their health, their lives to save others? How many are facing disease to help people in their own country or abroad? How many WOULD if they were given the chance? Could you save another person from a burning building while intoxicated? Could you, after taking a few hits off of a joint, save a friend should a horrible accident befall them? Could you even help an elderly person with their groceries will high without falling and dropping them all over the place? Life changes without us and without our approval. We must be aware and ready when it does.... or we will all suffer.


----------



## Seras (Feb 11, 2007)

Hurray for "RockStar"!


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 12, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> I find it sad that so many are willing to risk their health, their well being, their very lives for a moments pleasure....



Same could be said about sex. You have a possibility to get pregnant or have an STD such as HIV yet you still do it because you happen to enjoy it. Their are people who are sexfantics and will have sex with anyone, anytime, not even asking if their partner has an STD. But, on the other hand, there are people who love sex but are careful to not catch anything. Just like druggies. There are druggies who always have their hand out to their dealer saying "GIMME GIMME GIMME" and buying the first thing they give them for a cheap fix. Druggies like that are the ones who are scum (and the people that everyone hates) and just should kill themselves because they obviously have no life. Then, there are druggies (like me) who research for hours, reading about an effect of an drug before putting it into my body and only buying sometime from a dealer you trust. I never just say,  "Give me a nickle bag" to any dealer I don't know so that is the main reason why I don't use drugs all that much. We care about what we use because we have respect of our bodies to have them crumble because its a slave to a substance. I happen to know there are better things in life then getting high. I smoke either because I want some pleasure or I just need my senses dulled. Sure, smoking a blunt is a cowards way out of handling tough times but there are folks who are not strong and need comfort and I'm one of those people. I, to be blantly honest, started smoking because I wanted to forget an VERY abusive childhood when I wasn't getting any comfort elsewhere. That was the worst reason to ever start drugs, number one. But then, I grew to realize that this feels good, like sex or any other act so I will continue doing it because it makes me feel happy. There is nothing wrong with doing something that gives you pleasure, whether anyone disagrees or not. I don't believe in god so I only believe in indulging in pleasure while I'm alive because when I dead, I'm dead. So, need-less-to-say, I like to make sure I don't f*** up. I don't want to die so I'm careful about want I use and smoking a blunt once in a while isn't going to put me in an early grave.


----------



## Orthodox Fox (Feb 12, 2007)

thegreathamster said:
			
		

> But then, I grew to realize that this feels good, like sex or any other act so I will continue doing it because it makes me feel happy. There is nothing wrong with doing something that gives you pleasure, whether anyone disagrees or not.



You are quite right. There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel good and happy. In fact, this is the very PLACE to be happy: Earth. Look around you... there is so much to make one happy here it is unreal. However, whether you wish to admit or acknowledge it or not, the fact remains that people are hurt daily to bring you this good feeling... this happiness. Men, women... and children who _also _go through abusive childhoods because of this drugs very existence. So I ask you this simple question: Is your happiness worth the misery of others? Forget all of the hazards to yourself, think about the people who are hurt to bring you this drug. What say you?


----------



## rowanwand (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm interested to note that no one as of yet has mentioned salvia.  It's a legal hallucinogen which I myself have not used but I do know someone who has, and the side effects are far worse than little ole MJ.

As of yet I am not a user of MJ, but I find it amusing that I can go and buy a pack of Djarum Blacks (clove cigarettes) which can cause bleeding in the lungs and clove poisoning if abused (you're not supposed to smole more than one pack a month, there are 20 cigs in a pack), and yet it's illegal to buy/posses MJ, which if I am correct is far less damaging.

That said, I am a smoker, I do smoke tobacco, but I limit myself to one cigarette every two days, and sometimes even less than that.  Thus far I am not addicted to cigarettes, and out of all of my friends who smoke I am the most likely to decline an offered cigarette.

Also, I do indulge every now and then in a drink or two, and in all the time I've been drinking I've only been completely smashed once (which, by the way, made me very amusing company for my friends). 

I think MJ should be legalized, taxed, etc etc, just like cigarettes and alcohol. I have a few friends who smoke, as I stated above, and I believe I may at some point join them.  That or go a country where it is legal... But anyhow, I doubt it could make me any lazier than I already am, in any case.

*tosses two cents into the thread*


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 12, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> thegreathamster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Here's what I say: all that is a by-product of pot being ILLEGAL not of people smoking pot... Would almost all of the violence and hardship associated with marijuana vanish if it were turned into Tobacco II? It's not as though people smoke weed, then that is what causes them to run off and rob people, beat them up, sometimes even kill them. That shit happens because there's big money in robbing a big drug dealer. In the same way, when alcohol was prohibited, thousands of people died, went to prison, got seriously hurt etc due to the violent crime element. And while alcohol, when legal, causes its share of problems too, those problems went THROUGH THE ROOF when it was illegal...


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 12, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> thegreathamster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, here is my argument on this. My childhood was a horrible mixture of abuse and sexual abuse which, most of the time, was drug induced. My father abandon us one day because we was preventing him from doing drugs and he ended up dying of an heroin overdose and was left to rot for days in the hot July sun. My aunt and cousin would break into our house to steal our TV or anything else they thought would bring them enough cash for crack and my neighbour's wife stabbed him almost to death because he wouldn't give her money for drugs. Believe me when I say this, I know the pain drugs can give. But guess what? I never blamed the drugs. I never will blame the drugs. I blame the people behind them. Heroin wasn't the one who wanted to kill my father, it was my father who shot the stuff into him, therefore was his fault. It wasn't a group of rocks who broke into our house and stole our TV, it was my aunt and cousin. And meth didn't stab my neighbour, it was his wife. These people, and others around the world, have made their life, and others, a living hell because of a mistake the did by making themselves reliant on drugs. Its like people who sue fastfood outlits for making them fat. Did McDonalds FORCED you to come and stuff your face with there cheeseburgers? No, you chose to do it yourself and continue to do so because you enjoy the favor and their food make you feel good. You even spend alot of your money eating there. The more you eat, the better you feel and the more you get yourself use to it. People like to blame everything but themselves when it comes to any misdoings. If a child is shot in school, it was the guns fault, instead of the parent for not hiding the gun or the school for not finding the gun in the first place. If a kid blows his hand off with an firecracker, it was the firecrackers fault instead of the child or the parents for not watching him.  Everything bad a drug causes for someone isn't the drugs fault but the people behind it. Sure, drugs can be a reason why a misdoing is done but it won't have been if the person knew how to handle it and, an even better idea, didn't use drugs at all. You might disagree and that's fine. No-one will ever completely agree with anyone but this is my opinion on the whole "Drugs is the devil and you are doing the devils work for doing drugs and if you stop, the world will be a better place" argument. I feel everything a drug causes (crime, deaths, injury ect.) is truly the person's fault. 




			
				rowanwand said:
			
		

> I'm interested to note that no one as of yet has mentioned salvia.  It's a legal hallucinogen which I myself have not used but I do know someone who has, and the side effects are far worse than little ole MJ.



I tried it after looking up about it. I read the effects and I got everyone of them. It sucks. I never had such a panic attack and I couldn't draw crap for a week because I couldn't control my muscles right. Never again. >_<


----------



## Z-z-zerara (Feb 12, 2007)

Selunca said:
			
		

> I don't like pot because of the fact that every friend I've seen start doing it, as turned into a shell of their former self. These people used to be bright, with happy futures.
> 
> Now, they have about four braincells and they act like it. Even when their not high, they are retarded. Their speech is constantly slurred, and their eyes are always red.
> 
> ...



I really respect what you've said and agree.


----------



## Xax (Feb 12, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> No drugs are beneficial in my eyes. Whatsoever. To quibble over which ones are worse is nonsense. It is like arguing over which wars in history were worse. In all of them, people died...both the ones fighting the wars and innocents as well. Every drug on this earth has caused harm to someone. Let me give one of our favorites as an example:Â Â A list of symptoms of overdose on this drug are:Â
> (long list of symptoms snipped)
> And this is CAFFEINE.



Um, yeah, about half of those symtoms are also symptoms of a _water_ overdose. All things in moderation.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> And ANYONE who thinks for ONE second that the peddling of illegal drugs is "victim less" I will have words with. People are killed in violent battles over these drugs worldwide and it would NOT stop if it was made legal.



You ever seen a shootout over beer suppliers? Legalizing drugs brings them under the law's authority. Yeah, legalization wouldn't stop those issues, but it would be the first step towards it.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Could you save another person from a burning building while intoxicated? Could you, after taking a few hits off of a joint, save a friend should a horrible accident befall them? Could you even help an elderly person with their groceries will high without falling and dropping them all over the place? Life changes without us and without our approval. We must be aware and ready when it does.... or we will all suffer.



Uh, beer's legal and it inhibits a person from doing all the above. In fact, so does _sleeping_. Clearly I should cut that out before someone gets hurt.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Men, women... and children who also go through abusive childhoods because of this drugs very existence. So I ask you this simple question: Is your happiness worth the misery of others? Forget all of the hazards to yourself, think about the people who are hurt to bring you this drug. What say you?



Despite your "Drugs are the problem, not people" outlook, I would disagree: the kind of person who would abuse other people while intoxicated probably would not be highly adverse to doing so while sober. It's more a self-control issue, and yeah, if giving up drugs would help their demeanor then they probably should. But that doesn't effect the majority of people who _aren't_ going to have that problem.

I know someone who has serious resposibility issues, generally because he never stops to think his actions through. He also does drugs. I don't think those two facets of his personality are highly related.
I know someone who is a self-taught carpenter, electrician, plumber, and stage manager (as in theatre). He also does drugs. Again, I don't think those two facets of his personality are highly related.


----------



## WhiteKnightWolf (Feb 12, 2007)

I for one disagree with pot being illegal, it's health effects are less dangerous then smoking.  If anything tobacco should be the illegal drug.  And sunshyne is right, it's a law that comes from old time money controll problems.  A few of these drugs use to be used as pain killers, and still could be used that way if people wouldn't abuse it.  But maybe we should let them, after all we have no right to stop people from screwing their minds over.

Perhaps any drug (besides meth and other more serious stuff) could be used in moderation and be perfectly okay.  It's the same with MMORPGs, they get a bad rap because of a few junkies that do nothing with their life just so they can play.  Drug junkies will do ratical things for their next fix, just like WoW addicts.  

However, no one seems to notice, or even care, that no item like pot or alcohol matters, it's effects are not permanent, and you will be dead soon, why people concern themselves with such trivial matters I cannot comprehend.  Why this is such a big problem I will never know.   Nor do I care to find out.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 13, 2007)

Could I help an old lady with her groceries after smoking a joint, without dropping them all over the place? Of course I could, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... See there's the problem right there. People think pot is so much more intense than it really is. Pot doesn't make you stumble, or slur, or drop stuff all over the ground (well, MAYBE if you'd never smoked before in your life) -- it makes you feel loose and relaxed, and a little "slow" mentally and physically. And it makes you hungry. But that's about it. And those are temporary effects, because it is a proven fact that cannabis does not cause permanent damage or change in brain cells. 
*
You people talking about how weed has turned your friends into "shells of their former selves" remind me SO GOD DAMNED MUCH of two of my old friends from high school*... I was friends with them before I ever smoked weed, then once I started smoking, they very obviously lost respect for me. They began treating me condescendingly, and quickly stopped hanging out with me all together... Even though I never smoked around them or pressured them to start smoking, because I knew they were both against it. I'm not really friends with either of them anymore, and I'm sure if you asked them they would tell you the same thing: that I'm a shell of my former self. I, who am enrolled in college earning my political science degree... studying to be a lawyer... and who just got my first 4.0 GPA last semester (I average around a 3.7) am a SHELL of my former self to them, because I smoke cannabis every day and I'm not afraid to say so. It's so sad just writing about those two guys that I feel like I might cry now, but I feel I'm better off in the long run not being friends with anyone so judgmental. I still have lots of friends who 
don't smoke.

EDIT on this point, while I'm still emotional over it: All of you who've said you "automatically look down on people who use pot" have just said, in essence, that you consider yourselves better than me. Well, you're not better than me, you don't even know me, so kiss my ass. For that matter, I look down at anyone who judges so harshly without knowing a person's character... 

Do I acknowledge the possibility that I am an anomaly, that I just handle marijuana/cannabis much better than most people? And otherwise I might have run into trouble? Sure, I'll concede that.

Do I think there are some people who just SHOULD NOT smoke marijuana? Absolutely.

However, people like myself who smoke weed responsibly, in private, and as adults should not be treated as criminals. At the VERY LEAST, it should be "decriminalized", meaning if you get caught with weed you are issued a ticket and assessed a hefty fine. Can we at least agree on that point?


----------



## Surgat (Feb 13, 2007)

I missed this:


			
				Selunca said:
			
		

> ...
> I don't apprechaite [sic] Pot, or Cigerettes. [sic] Drinking is okay to me because its not addictive in my mind, and you choose how much you take in a drink. Where as pot, when you buy it, its a mixed bag. For all you know its laced.



Alcohol isn't addictive? Are you retarded? Look up "Delirium tremens."

I don't "apprechiate" people who can't spell either. 



			
				Selunca said:
			
		

> I don't care if Pot has recorded effects or not. I go by what I see, not by what a paper tells me to see.
> ...
> As so what if I'm narrow minded about an /illegal drug/. There are worse things to be narrowminded [sic] about then a drug that messes your brain cells up.



1.
No, you go by what you _think_ you see. 

There is no evidence that pot causes brain damage, and _you_ have _no data_, and performed no controlled studies to indicate or show that it is. What you think you see and your prejudices don't mean anything. The real world doesn't work that way. 

2. 
Illegal doesn't necessarily mean bad. Pot isn't illegal everywhere anyways.  



			
				Seux said:
			
		

> I really respect what you've said and agree.



I really don't respect you, and I think you're hypocritical.  
[nsfw:]
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Zeriara#Drugs 



			
				sunshyne said:
			
		

> You people talking about how weed has turned your friends into "shells of their former selves" remind me SO GOD DAMNED MUCH of two of my old friends from high school... I was friends with them before I ever smoked weed, then once I started smoking, they very obviously lost respect for me. They began treating me condescendingly, and quickly stopped hanging out with me all together... Even though I never smoked around them or pressured them to start smoking, because I knew they were both against it. I'm not really friends with either of them anymore, and I'm sure if you asked them they would tell you the same thing: that I'm a shell of my former self. I, who am enrolled in college earning my political science degree... studying to be a lawyer... and who just got my first 4.0 GPA last semester (I average around a 3.7) am a SHELL of my former self to them, because I smoke cannabis every day and I'm not afraid to say so. It's so sad just writing about those two guys that I feel like I might cry now, but I feel I'm better off in the long run not being friends with anyone so judgmental. I still have lots of friends who don't smoke.



They go by "_what they _[want to] _see_," not by what goes on in the real world. 

Of course, what could you expect from people who are either too lazy or can't figure out how to use spell checkers?


----------



## TeeGee (Feb 13, 2007)

Surgat said:
			
		

> I really don't respect you, and I think you're hypocritical.
> [nsfw:]
> http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Zeriara#Drugs



Wow.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 13, 2007)

TeeGee said:
			
		

> Surgat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Surgat just won in life. :lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Arshes Nei (Feb 13, 2007)

/me is laughing, thanks for making my day! XD


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Feb 13, 2007)

Surgat said:
			
		

> I really don't respect you, and I think you're hypocritical.
> [nsfw:]
> http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Zeriara#Drugs



Wait, what?


----------



## TeeGee (Feb 13, 2007)

Seux = Zeriara, apparently.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 13, 2007)

TeeGee said:
			
		

> Seux = Zeriara, apparently.



Because it is Zer. Just a name change, that's all. Like Prince Jeremy is Duke of Otterland.


----------



## Surgat (Feb 13, 2007)

TeeGee said:
			
		

> Seux = Zeriara, apparently.



Correct.


----------



## TeeGee (Feb 13, 2007)

Surgat said:
			
		

> TeeGee said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That ED article is so muddled I couldn't make much sense of it, even for an ED article.


----------



## southmunjoy (Feb 14, 2007)

Although I havn't smoked it since late 1991, I really don't see what the big deal is with pot. Personally, I can't stand the way it makes me feel, however if you get something out of it then it's fine by me. For the record though, when I was between the ages of 14-16, I used to smoke it every chance that I could, once consuming a half ounce in less than 24 hours. 

Would I do it again now that I'm nearly 40? No. --Again, I hate the way it makes me feel.


----------



## shy (Feb 14, 2007)

The internet is such a weird and whacky place.... 

I will say that I did salvia, the drug I can't imagine why it is still legal, and it made me feel like I was an origami box folding in on itself, and I hated it. I was in the middle of the desert and all I could do with myself was calmly walk out of the tent, lay myself down on the playa and play dead for a while. People freak out and stab each other after doing salvia. I can see why. It is not a recreational drug. It is a drug for people who want a serious, often religious head trip, like peyote.

also: i see this topic being locked in 5... 4... 3...


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 14, 2007)

shy said:
			
		

> i see this topic being locked in 5... 4... 3...



Ditto. 

OH NOES, OFF TOPIC DRAMA!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!1@2


----------



## insanityJ (Feb 17, 2007)

i'm not a pothead


----------



## Creativetrash (Feb 17, 2007)

yeah, im a pot head.  me and my mom toke up together and share eachother's greens.  My sister also is a big toker, and we're one big happy stoner family.  Plus lsd, shrooms, mescaline, and whatever else.


----------



## uncia2000 (Feb 17, 2007)

Abraxus said:
			
		

> yeah, im a pot head.  me and my mom toke up together and share eachother's greens.  My sister also is a big toker, and we're one big happy stoner family.  Plus lsd, shrooms, mescaline, and whatever else.



k, Abraxus... Trolling in a more believable fashion would be less likely to be noticed, to be honest.
Checked mainsite and am removing the definitely not general audience avatar on your apparent secondary account.

Please take this as a polite, general warning note to be of good behavior in the community and will happily draw a line at that. 
Reply to my PM to discuss, as required, but a lack of further communication will be taken to be acknowledgement.

Thanks,
David.


----------



## insanityJ (Feb 18, 2007)

Just curious uncia, if this is a PG 13 forum, then is this thread realy apropreate?


----------



## shy (Feb 18, 2007)

Depends on your definition of PG-13.


----------



## Bokracroc (Feb 18, 2007)

According to the little ticker thing on the bottom of the screen in the morning news, marijuana isn't cool anymore.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 18, 2007)

insanityJ said:
			
		

> Just curious uncia, if this is a PG 13 forum, then is this thread realy apropreate?



Yes it's appropriate. We're talking about whether or not the current laws are right or should be changed, not coming together to celebrate and encourage marijuana (there are plenty of other forums for that). It's not like just reading this thread is going to give you a contact high or anything... 

And Abraxas, no you don't. And no they aren't.


----------



## Creativetrash (Feb 19, 2007)

sunshyne said:
			
		

> insanityJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



how the fuck do you know?  And yes, they are.  And yes, I am.

Seriously, this forum really reaks.  I join, post a few things, get called a troll by an admin, and people like you tell me what I am.

 I find a thread about smoking weed, something me and my family do normally, something I enjoy, and get shit for it?  Called a liar?

Fuck this.


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 19, 2007)

Abraxus said:
			
		

> Plus lsd, shrooms, mescaline, and whatever else.



I always wanted to try mescaline. Its basically what gives peyote that kick. What's that whatever else you said you tried? (If your coming back.)


----------



## capthavoc123 (Feb 19, 2007)

Isn't smoking marijuana just a mainstream, less-rebellious way of non-conforming?


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 19, 2007)

capthavoc123 said:
			
		

> Isn't smoking marijuana just a mainstream, less-rebellious way of non-conforming?



No, its just a panic room for us (well at least me) wussies who can't deal with reality. :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## shy (Feb 19, 2007)

I dunno, Havoc. One time when I was trippin', I decided to ********** and as I was getting off I saw the entire evolution of art from the first cave drawings to the 50s, 60s and 70s and up until it was just waves of color and, well, you can pretty well imagine what happened next. 

There is also that time I turned into a Komodo dragon (as discussed in a seperate post I'm too lazy to link to). 

Also, the time I saw Albert Einstein in space. 

I also saw all the stars connected by their zodiac signs in a cone going up through the heavens into the universe.

I've also seen tiny men turning cogs in my mind's inner spaces.

But mostly I get fucked up to feel good. 

Not that I can't feel good naturally, infact, I can lean back right now and take myself to a place where pure chemical goodness flows naturally through my system, like leaning back on a swingset and feeling the rush of air over, and over, and over again. You can do a lot of these things and more without the help of any chemical other than the ones naturally produced by your body.


You just have to know where to look.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 20, 2007)

Abraxus said:
			
		

> sunshyne said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok... calm down... I'm sorry... From the tone of your first post (and the smiley), and the admin message about something deleted, I figured you were just trying to stir things up on here and get people pissed off.


----------



## SalemFuchs (Feb 20, 2007)

I know some people who do it. I can't stand being near them when they're doing it. Have fun killing your brain cells and stinking up the place, just keep me out of it, I'd say.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 20, 2007)

SalemFuchs said:
			
		

> I know some people who do it. I can't stand being near them when they're doing it. Have fun killing your brain cells and stinking up the place, just keep me out of it, I'd say.



Sigh... for the last time, smoking weed does NOT kill your brain cells. You can't even find a conservative bible-beating ONCDP spokesman to claim that on anymore, because it's been repeatedly disproven. Now, stinking up the place? Of course. And that is really uncool of your friends if they know you don't like pot and they still smoke up around you.

Not everyone is like that, though. I live in a four person dorm room and three of the people here smoke, and one never has. We've never pushed him too either, or gotten in his face with it. It's a respect thing.


----------



## emptyF (Feb 20, 2007)

i just want to say three things before this topic is lockeded.

1.) pot is not a drug.  it's an herb with medicinal and recreational purposes.
2.) i've smoked a lot of pot, but not so much any more.  i have other things to do.
3.) the furry fandom couldn't exist without pot.  how high do you have to be to think you're an animal or that your school's mascot is unbearably sexy?  really.


----------



## shy (Feb 20, 2007)

I do believe that pot is a drug. I believe any substance, natural or synthetic, that is used to treat your status quo, whatever it may be, is a drug. You are simply dealing with what is legal, what is illegal, what is controlled, what is uncontrolled, what is socially accepted, and what is not socially accepted. Just don't forget that the laws, opinions and knowledge on drugs varies all over the entire Earth.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 20, 2007)

shy said:
			
		

> I do believe that pot is a drug. I believe any substance, natural or synthetic, that is used to treat your status quo, whatever it may be, is a drug. You are simply dealing with what is legal, what is illegal, what is controlled, what is uncontrolled, what is socially accepted, and what is not socially accepted. Just don't forget that the laws, opinions and knowledge on drugs varies all over the entire Earth.



Exactly - caffiene, nicotine, alcohol, hell even Tylenol is a drug. But if you look at history you find that almost invariably, the ones that are now illegal became that way because they were mostly unheard of among Whites, then they started to get popular with one or more minority groups, and lawmakers said "hey we can't have that going on, I've never heard of that" and BAM... a substance is illegal. 

People who use the "it must be illegal for a reason" arguement need to remember that it first became outlawed nationwide in 1937, the year Reefer Maddness came out, and when 80% of the general public, if asked, would tell you that marijuana drove its users to uncontrollable bloodlust... The propaganda in those days talked about "marijuana fiending niggers". The propaganda today talks about how your dog will be disappointed in your if you smoke weed. Now HOW is it STILL a good reasons to keep this plant illegal, keep wasting the time of the courts and law enforcement, keep imprisoning people who pose no threat to themselves or others, and keep making drug smugglers filthy rich instead of our state gov'ts???


----------



## Surgat (Feb 20, 2007)

*Tell your children.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhIl8GJapq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAL4-WVZ2cU


----------



## thegreathamster (Feb 23, 2007)

emptyF said:
			
		

> 3.) the furry fandom couldn't exist without pot.  how high do you have to be to think you're an animal or that your school's mascot is unbearably sexy?  really.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Option7 (Feb 23, 2007)

emptyF said:
			
		

> 1.) pot is not a drug.Â Â it's an herb with medicinal and recreational purposes.



It's a mentally/physically altering substance. That classifies it as a drug.


----------



## Growly (Feb 24, 2007)

emptyF said:
			
		

> 3.) the furry fandom couldn't exist without pot.Â Â how high do you have to be to think you're an animal or that your school's mascot is unbearably sexy?Â Â really.



Untrue. :3 I've never touched the stuff and I'm into all sorts of bizarre kinky furry fetishes.
Your statements both confuse, offend, and amuse me.
Out of curiosity, what qualifies something as a drug, in your eyes?


----------



## Sedit (Feb 24, 2007)

I partake of the sticky green on occasion!

Am I a pothead though?  I doubt it...I smoke it maybe a dozen times in a year, at most.  I go months between tokes TBH.  I used to do it more frequently...like 2-3x a month, but I really dont have the money for that....nor decent connections since i moved....besdies, I'm laying off since I'm seeking better employment.  Once I'm in with a decent job i know is gonna last awhile I may get a little bit more into it. But I can take it or leave it.


Now...beer and liquor?  Well.....thats a WHOLE 'nother story my friends! *chugs back another Maudite*


----------



## yak (Feb 24, 2007)

> I pray to my gods and don't mock those others pray to.


Some of my best friends smoke pot, on a number of parties we throw.  That kind'a upsets me every time it happens, but... i'm not the one to shove my beliefs and preferences in other people's faces. I dislike it, yes, but as long as it's not shoved in my face, i'm able to ignore it. My friends know of it and respect it, and we all live happily ever after.

As for my point of view - the price those smoking people pay is much greater then the vague benefit they get in return.


----------



## sunshyne (Feb 24, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> > As for my point of view - the price those smoking people pay is much greater then the vague benefit they get in return.
> 
> 
> 
> You can say that again - up to $60 for three and a half grams is a pretty expensive plant!


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 1, 2007)

I smoke the herb when time and resources allow. As a Rasta, it should be obvious enough why. However, knowing what I know about herb (which took a lot of research to cut through the misinformation propagated by the misguided War on Drugs, I might add), I'd probably smoke it even if it wasn't a deeply ingrained part of my spirituality.

There are only three negative effects ganja has had on me.

1) If you don't have a lot of disposable income, it's damn near cost prohibitive to do it regularly. Finding a source you can trust is also tricky.

2) On a few occassions, it interfered with my college work.

3) If I hadn't began smoking ganja, I probably never would've taken up tobacco, which in the long term is more expensive and harmful.

The first problem could be remedied if the government kept their nose out of where it doesn't belong - people's homes and people's bodies. The fact that not everyone's living situation allows them to grow their own means dealers can charge whatever they want (although generally ganja is still far less expensive overall than other street drugs). If people were allowed to simply buy some seeds, the necessary equipment and grow their own, the underground market for it wouldn't be so strong and tied in with the trade of other, truly dangerous drugs. And you'd never have to buy another gram off the street again. You'd know exactly what you're getting.

The second two are a matter of personal responsibility. It was my choice to, on a few occassions smoke up instead of doing my assignments, which meant slightly lower grades than what I would've had. I haven't made that mistake since. As for tobacco, that is something I regret doing, and I'm trying to quit. I've been smoking for a little under a year, and I'm at the point where I can make a pack of cigarettes last three days, but it's hard.

Quitting tobacco, cold turkey is a nightmare. You feel real, physical and mental effects of withdrawl. Everything from fatigue, headaches, shakiness, to psychological symptoms like irritability and mood swings. They say weed takes over you? No, THIS shit takes over you. I haven't smoked a joint since November of last year, and the closest thing I've ever had to withdrawl is really wishing I was high whenever I'm watching a wicked movie or eating some really good food. But it doesn't kill me not to smoke herb. I'm not addicted to it, but I am addicted to tobacco. I'd say I've probably spent more money on tobacco than I ever did on ganja. And for what?

Ganja allows my mind and spirit to venture places Babylon would rather I not go. It makes me more open to sharing my true feelings with people. I shared an apartment over the summer with some classmates while we did an animation project, and I would get high most nights when we'd watch movies and shoot the shit, talk about politics, spirituality, philosophy, and they figured since I was high, I wouldn't be judgemental. What they didn't realize is that I WANTED to talk about these things all along, but in our insitution, you get looked at the wrong way for having an opinion that doesn't perfectly align with the establishment, and so like them, I kept my mouth shut.

What has tobacco given me? A ball and chain that I pay out the ass to wear and suffer for when I try to liberate myself. Manufactured by and laced with unnessecary poisons by wealthy corporations, heavily taxed by the government, it's like I'm literally paying two hands of Babylon to kill and enslave me. One hand shackles me, the other hand feeds me poison, and both empty my pockets. But if my father could quit after 30+ years of smoking, so can I.

Is ganja a gateway? Hopefully it is, to that place I want to be where I don't feel like I need to consume anything before I free my mind. It's a lifelong journey, like any spiritual path should be.


----------



## MarieChan (Mar 1, 2007)

Me a pot-smoker? Naw, I would probably not even touch it because it would sting my throat like spicy food, soda and beer does(it's also bitter ;_; )

I also wonder if Pot's so illegal then how do so many people get it? It must have been like in the prohibition era with alcohol x:


----------



## DruoxTheFurrinator (Mar 1, 2007)

So..um...when did this become a dispute over drugs? I thought it was more of a "I smoke pot, worship me" thing...aw well

I don't do drugs, I play music.Â Â I drink alcohol in healthy ammounts when I'm stressed out and I need to calm down.Â Â I have a HIGH tolorance for the chemicals they throw into the drugs so it merely mellows me out...yeah...they put MORE shit into the shit you smoke/drink.

Weed and Alcohol are 1/2 the shit you smoke/drink now in Europe. Remember: There's standards they must meet, even if it's imported, they still add the chemicals and those are what really fuck you up.

Oh yeah...and btw, isn't weed not pg-13?


----------



## Seto Ashura (Mar 1, 2007)

Why does this topic have eight pages....?


----------



## Option7 (Mar 1, 2007)

You yanks get ripped off with your weed seriously O_O


----------



## WelcomeTheCollapse (Mar 1, 2007)

Option7 said:
			
		

> You yanks get ripped off with your weed seriously O_O



Part of the reason I almost never do it anymore.

/Unless someone else is buying


----------



## thegreathamster (Mar 1, 2007)

Seto Ashura said:
			
		

> Why does this topic have eight pages....?



Shush! The adults are talking. :lol::lol::lol:

j/k


----------



## Seto Ashura (Mar 2, 2007)

*chuckles* Whoops.


----------



## The Sonic God (Mar 2, 2007)

mnfwctbrb said:
			
		

> im not ashamed to admit i like to smoke a little weed once in a while. i have my priorities in order, i dont just sit on the couch and smoke a lot of weed and eat oreos and pass out. pot doesnt effect me like that anyway, when i smoke i feel more ambitious and outgoing. and its not like it makes me do bad in school, i graduated, and i actually got very good grades.



Is there anything that you feel that you can do to get rid of the weed altogether?



> i also feel that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol and ciggerettes. per weight marijuana has more tar than tobacco, but people tend to smoke atleast 10x less pot than tobacco, and smoke it less frequently. and if for no other reason, a stoner might be too paranoid to drive stoned than they would under the influence of alcohol.



Less harmful - not less illegal. It doesn't matter. Any drugs of any kind, be it legal or not is harmful to you in some way. Also, I personally find it disgusting. If you're going to smoke or drink, then please don't hang around me.



> i dont even like alcohol actually. it makes me feel like my senses have been numbed and i feel very slow and tend to make bad decisions. not that i think booze is all bad though, its just not for me.



I had a severe allergic reaction the last time I had alcohol... and that was a complete accident. I confused another person's drink for my own, which had Captain Morgan in it. Needless to say, being dissolved in Coca-Cola saved my life. Had it been pure, I would have died.



> so am i alone here? am i the only pothead on fchan? will you automatically think less of me for smoking pot?



Quite possible that you're not alone since everyone makes mistakes.



> edit: i said fchan but i ment FA.. im not high or anything! just sleepy. its almost 3am here.



Time to quit, man. You'll save a lot of money, and you'll live longer. And you'll look and feel better.

Pot is not a harmless drug. Never will be. If we were designed to smoke, we would have been born with chimneys.

Easier said than done, but I lost friends and family to drugs. I have to live with their mistakes because they couldn't make the choice to quit.

If I catch any fur smoking weed, they will be reported to the police, period.


----------



## Seto Ashura (Mar 2, 2007)

I don't see what the big deal is with weed. I smoked it once or twice and realized it was a monumental waste of my hard-earned money. I can watch people act stoopid, point and laugh, and then fall asleep starving WITHOUT the use of a drug.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 3, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> mnfwctbrb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's obvious to me, like most people who run their mouth about this shit, that you have no sweet clue in hell what you're talking about. By the way, go ahead, report my ass. See if I give a damn. More importantly, see if the police give a damn, since a lot of them will be the first to tell you they got bigger shit to worry about than who's giving themselves the munchies in the privacy of their own homes.


----------



## sunshyne (Mar 3, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> mnfwctbrb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 3, 2007)

One of these days I'll get lifted and write an essay on spirituality on here, and make it a point to state that I was high at the time. We'll see what happens. Either y'all will think smoking weed influenced the expression of some aready pretty deep thoughts, or that I sound like a stoned idiot. Whatever the outcome, I'll tell you straight away that that's about the worst effect it has on a person, making them talk about utter nonsense as if it were profound. Because furries *never* make fools of themself when they open their mouth, do they?


----------



## thegreathamster (Mar 3, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> Also, I personally find it disgusting. If you're going to smoke or drink, then please don't hang around me.



That's fine. That's fine like wine (I'm sure you'll disagree with that phrase :lol::lol::lol. I, in fact, find cigarettes smoke disgusting. I find pure alcoholics disgusting. Nothing wrong with thinking something sucks. And also, if the pot smoker was like me, they will smoke in privacy, away from others because they know that its rude to some people to smoke in front of them.



			
				The Sonic God said:
			
		

> > so am i alone here? am i the only pothead on fchan? will you automatically think less of me for smoking pot?
> 
> 
> 
> Quite possible that you're not alone since everyone makes mistakes.



And you don't make mistakes, O' Great Holy Hebrew God of Sonic?



			
				The Sonic God said:
			
		

> If we were designed to smoke, we would have been born with chimneys.



If we were designed to be furries, we would have been born as our fursona but we weren't yet we still do this furry thing. Interesting. (I *DO NOT* believe we are born furry. Only the insane believe otherwise.)



			
				The Sonic God said:
			
		

> I lost friends and family to drugs. I have to live with their mistakes because they couldn't make the choice to quit.



So have I. Don't try to play that sob story to me to try to make me feel sorry for you because I been there, done that. Try again.



			
				The Sonic God said:
			
		

> If I catch any fur smoking weed, they will be reported to the police, period.



And when did the police started going on raids through hearsay?

"Hey officers, I saw the weapons of mass destruction on my neighbor's porch!!!!" You'll be laughed out of the police station. Anyone can say anything about someone. Whether or not its true, most likely, the police won't act unless you give them with proof.

And also, just furries? What about some gangbanger ***wipe on the street? Are you going to report him? What, are you talking about a furcon? Are you really fed so mush BS about pot that you believe we won't care if we smoked in front of people are a furcon? Any fur who does that deserve to get in trouble for he lack of common sense and *****baggery to others.

Once again, its fine to think its bad but coming here and preaching your self-righteous crap to us is lame and I'm surprised you haven't opened a church to preach your stuff to because religious fanatics will believe anything.


----------



## sunshyne (Mar 3, 2007)

Hamster, I love most of what you've wrote throughout this thread. The common sense just kind of flows out. And you're right - it is a matter of common courtesy not to smoke around a non-smoker... cigarettes, pot, whatever. And maybe if every single pot smoker followed these rules you and I do, smoked weed responsibly like you and I do, and still took care of our responsibilities, nobody would still be on this thread talking about how weed is dangerous and rightfuly illegal... but I doubt it.

The most disturbing thing is that, most of the people who've responded in a very anti-pot manner, have also referred to their own alcohol use and/or said that they think alcohol is alright. Like there is something inherently different about cannabis (pot, weed, what have you) that makes it more addictive than alcohol, that impairs the user more, or causes worse physicals effects, etc... And that is just so far from the truth, it's insane. 

Myself, along with about fifty of my close friends, fall under the group of people who smoke pot AND drink either regularly or semi-regularly. To my knowledge, not one person has actually run into a serious life obstacle because of pot (unless you count getting caught for possession, and having to go to court, pay fines, etc., which is a shame but it happens). But because of alcohol? Shit. A couple of my friends have gotten into DUI crashes... more fistfights than I can count... I've personally fallen and bashed my chin open while I was drunk... another friend got arrested because he got drunk and drove around the neighborhood randomly slashing tires... the list goes on. Meanwhile, pot makes you want to chill out in front of the TV and turn on something funny. Maybe get some snacks... 

Now, most people can responsibly consume alcohol, and some people can't. I'd say the same is true with weed - there are some people who just shouldn't use weed because of the way it affects them. But I'd say this is a much smaller group than people who shouldn't drink. Why? Because cannabis is typically less intoxicating and less addicting than alcohol. If you don't believe that I DARE you to undertake a month-long study: two joints every other night, a six-pack every other night. Your mind WILL be changed. But I doubt that's gonna happen.


----------



## Surgat (Mar 3, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> If I catch any fur smoking weed, they will be reported to the police, period.



Explain yourself. How is it any of your business? Why do you think competent adults need you acting as their nanny?


----------



## Orthodox Fox (Mar 5, 2007)

Xax said:
			
		

> You ever seen a shootout over beer suppliers? Legalizing drugs brings them under the law's authority. Yeah, legalization wouldn't stop those issues, but it would be the first step towards it.



The prohibition of the United States lasted 13 years. During that time a great deal of violence occurred because the product was outlawed, however, it was not enough time to set up an lasting effort to distribute and manage it globally as an â€œillegalâ€ drug. It was easy to back out of. Now, the illegal drug industry is an illegal global market and has been well rooted over the last century or longer. Making it legal would only fan the flames. Take away THAT, and I suspect the violence would only get worse. But honestly, neither of us can know for sure. 



			
				Xax said:
			
		

> Uh, beer's legal and it inhibits a person from doing all the above. In fact, so does _sleeping_. Clearly I should cut that out before someone gets hurt.



Clearly you forget the fact that I said that I believed ALL drugs are of no good use. But you know you are right. Sleeping is just as bad as drugs? How can you honestly say that? I suppose sleeping is just as bad as shooting someone no? Or a deadly hit and run? War? I am sure that many of the children killed by stray bullets in drug deals gone bad would be glad to know that they could have died from their killers nap just as quick as from their malicious gun. I wager they would rather be sleeping themselves right now, in their beds, rather than in the earth. But then, that is the fault of the lawmakers right? Not the people who peddle the drugs and pull the trigger? Sleep induces the same effect, very well. So tell me why, when we have so many natural factors leading to â€œsimilarâ€ bad occurrences, why you would add more risk of danger in with drugs? Humanity has ENOUGH problems that we have to deal with without adding yet another factor of possible harm like drugs. It benefits no one but the individual. 



			
				Xax said:
			
		

> Despite your "Drugs are the problem, not people" outlook, I would disagree: the kind of person who would abuse other people while intoxicated probably would not be highly adverse to doing so while sober. It's more a self-control issue, and yeah, if giving up drugs would help their demeanor then they probably should. But that doesn't effect the majority of people who _aren't_ going to have that problem.



So you honestly mean to tell me that the majority of people can control themselves under drugs?   



			
				Xax said:
			
		

> I know someone who has serious resposibility issues, generally because he never stops to think his actions through. He also does drugs. I don't think those two facets of his personality are highly related.



Gasoline and fire are not highly related either. 



			
				Xax said:
			
		

> I know someone who is a self-taught carpenter, electrician, plumber, and stage manager (as in theatre). He also does drugs. Again, I don't think those two facets of his personality are highly related.



So all of the sober electricians, carpenters, plumbers and stage mangers of the world should all do drugs? It obviously has no effect on such exacting and precise crafts such as these, why not every one do drugs? I can only imagine the world of the future. Drug addled craftsman building â€œqualityâ€ homes for the drug addled populace. Such a utopia. Should we all do drugs? Do you believe the world would be exactly the same as it is now if we ALL were drug users Xax? If not, then who is ALLOWED access to these wonderful drugs and who is not?


----------



## Orthodox Fox (Mar 5, 2007)

Surgat said:
			
		

> The Sonic God said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course not. And when someone is robbing you at gunpoint, should Sonic God just walk by without offering you aid? Should he not call the police THEN? Because the robbers crime is "none of his business"? Should all of the crimes of this world be ignored because It is "none of our business"? You will find that it will not be a happy planet if people "minded their own business".


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 5, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Surgat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Alright, I'm calling bullshit on that one. Robbing someone at gunpoint is denying someone their freedom not to be injured / killed / have their property stolen. Intervention is justified because it's for the sake of protecting basic human rights. If someone is smoking weed, which poses no significant risk to anyone but the user (and negligable at that), by interfering you're denying them the freedom to do with their body what they bloody well please.

What's the latin legal term for this bullshit everyone likes to pull? You know, basing arguments on comparisons that only work if you throw logic completely out the window?


----------



## Orthodox Fox (Mar 5, 2007)

Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> Alright, I'm calling bullshit on that one. Robbing someone at gunpoint is denying someone their freedom not to be injured / killed / have their property stolen. Intervention is justified because it's for the sake of protecting basic human rights. If someone is smoking weed, which poses no significant risk to anyone but the user (and negligable at that), by interfering you're denying them the freedom to do with their body what they bloody well please.
> 
> What's the latin legal term for this bullshit everyone likes to pull? You know, basing arguments on comparisons that only work if you throw logic completely out the window?



Three points:

(1) You can believe that drug use is a "victimless crime" all you wish, but facts prove otherwise.

(2) How is it any different? Actually, it is exactly the same and quite logical. Someone commits a crime, they either report it/stop it, or they do NOT.  I did not bring up the nature of crimes, I am discussing LAW. Whether you want to admit it or not, breaking the law does more than just affect the one who breaks it, regardless of the criminal action.

(3) But of course! Everyone who commits a crime hopes that witnesses will simply turn the other cheek! Haha! Wouldn't it be nice to get away with breaking laws whenever you wish? Don't you know it! Hahaha. Well, fortunately, the drug is against the law and that is that. If you break the law, there is a chance you will get caught. You cannot place blame on he/she that reports you. It was YOUR choice to disobey, not theirs. You can blame no one but yourself. That is Logic.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 5, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> (1) You can believe that drug use is a "victimless crime" all you wish, but facts prove otherwise.



Put your money where your foot is about to be. This oughtta be good.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> (2) How is it any different? Actually, it is exactly the same and quite logical. Someone commits a crime, they either report it/stop it, or they do NOT.  I did not bring up the nature of crimes, I am discussing LAW. Whether you want to admit it or not, breaking the law does more than just affect the one who breaks it, regardless of the criminal action.



Because laws are *never* wrong. Jesus, I just spelled it out for you how it's different. Problem is you're going to have to prove point 1 in order to prove point 2.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> (3) But of course! Everyone who commits a crime hopes that witnesses will simply turn the other cheek! Haha! Wouldn't it be nice to get away with breaking laws whenever you wish? Don't you know it! Hahaha. Well, fortunately, the drug is against the law and that is that. If you break the law, there is a chance you will get caught. You cannot place blame on he/she that reports you. It was YOUR choice to disobey, not theirs. You can blame no one but yourself. That is Logic.



Yes, it is my choice to break a law which is pointless, unjust, and in some cases even anti-religious. It's also my choice to do it in private, where anyone who doesn't want a contact buzz doesn't have to get it, negating the possibility of anyone else being affected by it. *That* is a logical solution. What *you* are talking about is doctrine. Of course, to not know the difference, you either have to be ignorant or throw logic out the window. Not unlike the difference between smoking pot and committing armed robberies.


----------



## Grimfang (Mar 5, 2007)

Wow, I just hopped into this. This thread's gotten very interesting.

As far as all this johnny law talk goes, I have something to say. Law is not life. Undeniably, we all benefit from the law. We're safe and happy. But I refuse to restrict myself to live only inside the boundaries of the law.

For example, in the US, the majority of people who drink start drinking before 21 -- which is illegal. I'm 20, and I've drank plenty of times. I can handle myself perfectly fine. I don't understand how the government can ban alcohol from passing my lips until I am 21, and I refuse to comply with that.

But then again, I am nihilistic and despise government, so that may be why I think the gov't should have no hand in the manner in which I live my life, so long as I do not harm others.


----------



## Surgat (Mar 5, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> The prohibition of the United States lasted 13 years. During that time a great deal of violence occurred because the product was outlawed, however, it was not enough time to set up an lasting effort to distribute and manage it globally as an â€œillegalâ€ drug. It was easy to back out of. Now, the illegal drug industry is an illegal global market and has been well rooted over the last century or longer. Making it legal would only fan the flames. Take away THAT, and I suspect the violence would only get worse. But honestly, neither of us can know for sure.



Evidence? What exactly would it â€œfan the flamesâ€ of? 

Legalization of marijuana would put any illegal producers in competition with people who grow them in their own homes, and with legal companies, and going to illegal sources of marijuana would be unnecessary.  In addition, neither of these two legal groups would have to resort to things like shootouts, since they could just use the police. 

[Sure this wouldnâ€™t totally eliminate illegal producers and distributors, but there are illegal car mechanics too; I doubt you hold it against them or car manufacturers.] 



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Sleeping is just as bad as drugs? How can you honestly say that? I suppose sleeping is just as bad as shooting someone no? Or a deadly hit and run? War? I am sure that many of the children killed by stray bullets in drug deals gone bad would be glad to know that they could have died from their killers nap just as quick as from their malicious gun. I wager they would rather be sleeping themselves right now, in their beds, rather than in the earth. But then, that is the fault of the lawmakers right? Not the people who peddle the drugs and pull the trigger? Sleep induces the same effect, very well. So tell me why, when we have so many natural factors leading to â€œsimilarâ€ bad occurrences, why you would add more risk of danger in with drugs? Humanity has ENOUGH problems that we have to deal with without adding yet another factor of possible harm like drugs. It benefits no one but the individual.



Is marijuana use just as bad as shooting someone? Or a deadly hit and run? War ? No. So why insinuate that it is?



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Xax said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You havenâ€™t proven a causal connection between responsibility issues and pot use; youâ€™ve made a post hoc fallacy. You might as well say that bread causes violent crime, since most violent crimes are committed within twenty-four hours of eating bread. 



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Drug addled craftsman building â€œqualityâ€ homes for the drug addled populace.



Itâ€™s good to know that everybody who uses drugs and has a job _must_ use them on the job. You learn something new every day.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> (1) You can believe that drug use is a "victimless crime" all you wish, but facts prove otherwise.



Sorry, your prejudice != fact.



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> (2) How is it any different? Actually, it is exactly the same and quite logical. Someone commits a crime, they either report it/stop it, or they do NOT.  I did not bring up the nature of crimes, I am discussing LAW. Whether you want to admit it or not, breaking the law does more than just affect the one who breaks it, regardless of the criminal action.



You did bring up the nature of crimes:


			
				you said:
			
		

> Of course not. And when someone is robbing you at gunpoint, should Sonic God just walk by without offering you aid? Should he not call the police THEN? Because the robbers crime is "none of his business"? Should all of the crimes of this world be ignored because It is "none of our business"? You will find that it will not be a happy planet if people "minded their own business".



You seemed to be talking specifically about infractions to laws that protect real, important things like health, life, and property.

The law against armed robbery is reasonable, and the other law, the law against marijuana, use is not. One law (the one against armed robbery) protects peopleâ€™s health, lives, and property, the other (against marijuana) doesnâ€™t protect anything at all, but instead regulates what people do in private. I know who the law is protecting in your hypothetical case of armed robbery; however, Iâ€™m not sure who the law is protecting in the case of marijuana use.   

Furthermore, I donâ€™t think Sonic God is under any legal obligation to call the police, however he has some personal interest in it in keeping armed robbers off the street, and helping to deter future armed robbers. I donâ€™t see how he has any such personal interest in fining and/or jailing marijuana users, though.  



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> (3) But of course! Everyone who commits a crime hopes that witnesses will simply turn the other cheek! Haha! Wouldn't it be nice to get away with breaking laws whenever you wish? Don't you know it! Hahaha. Well, fortunately, the drug is against the law and that is that. If you break the law, there is a chance you will get caught. You cannot place blame on he/she that reports you. It was YOUR choice to disobey, not theirs. You can blame no one but yourself. That is Logic.



Using the police to fine someone and/or throw someone in prison requires justification. I donâ€™t see why reporting someone for the violation of bad law isnâ€™t a form of wrongdoing. Take an extreme example: back before the Civil War, if someone reported a fugitive slave and/or someone who held fugitive slaves, wouldnâ€™t they be doing wrong? 

If I donâ€™t report marijuana use, who have I wronged? Whoâ€™s hurt? If nobody reported marijuana use, whoâ€™s loss would it be? What if the marijuana was smoked for medicinal purposes?


----------



## Surgat (Mar 5, 2007)




----------



## sunshyne (Mar 6, 2007)

Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> Wolf-Bone said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




1) You are right - drug use in general is not a victimless crime. Crackhead and meth addicts often steal from innocent people to fund their habits, people neglect their children and families because of alcohol dependence or addiction to some other drug, etc... But me smoking pot casually in my own home IS A VICTIMLESS CRIME. Marijuana does not belong in the category of "drugs" which in this case you are using to refer to ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS. i.e. In the big picture, weed isn't even close to being in the same ballpark as cocaine, heroin, meth, ecstasy, LSD, etc. I'm no danger to myself or anybody else when I partake responsibly of the herb - and no my money doesn't go to supporting terrorists or gangs, because most of what I smoke I know for a fact is grown locally.

2) It is COMPLETELY different. Most laws are perfectly reasonable and serve a good purpose. But would you call the police if you saw someone jaywalking? I mean, in most places that's technically still a crime... How about if one of your friends ripped off the tag on your mattress that says only the owner can remove it, "UNDER PENALTY OF LAW", would you call the fuzz on them then? I mean, it wasn't too long ago that it was illegal in some states for blacks to marry with whites, or for gay couples to do anything intimate even in the privacy of their own homes... And yes - what I am saying is, for somebody like me, who has experience with smoking and uses it responsibly, my actions cause about as much harm as jaywalking.

3) You are right, and this is why people should simply use common sense when smoking and they will be OK (very similar to alcohol, noticing a pattern??) 

But let's say, you were doing some type of door-to-door fundraising and you knocked on my door, to find me come home after a day's work and just relaxing watching TV, and when I answered the door, you noticed the smell of marijuana and see a bong on my table when you look deep inside my house. I am very polite, and listen to what you have to say, maybe even make a small donation, whatever... Do you mean to tell me that you would walk to the nearest phone and call the police? And have me arrested, likely fired, carrying a criminal charge for life, and fined an incredible amount of money, all because I was smoking some pot in my own house on my own time? If that is they case, I would say you are a prick, and you deserve your ass promptly beat. Just LOOK AT THE RELATIVE CONSEQUENCES: a) you mind your own business and I go on to eat four brownies, watch two episodes of The Simpsons and take a 45 minute nap... or b) in most states, a trip down to county lockup, all the aforementioned BS, and a possible loss of my driver's license.

Use your brain.


----------



## dong (Mar 6, 2007)

*peek* not going to comment on the actual debate itself, don't mind me.



			
				Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> What's the latin legal term for this bullshit everyone likes to pull? You know, basing arguments on comparisons that only work if you throw logic completely out the window?



The fallacies of _strawman_ and _non-sequitur_ are what you're looking for right now. The most common fallacies that come with these are _is-ought_ conflation, and _appeal to..._, be it a deity, emotion or some other sophist manipulation.


----------



## Orthodox Fox (Mar 6, 2007)

Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> Put your money where your foot is about to be. This oughtta be good.



Keep in mind we are not discussing damage to the individual, rather, the lives of others.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/aug2006/db20060829_272510.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_trafficking#Cannabis
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html#druguse
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/specials/websterawards/story.html?id=ae971b40-4ac7-43c9-bcd6-e7807130af20

Mexico is the second largest source of U.S marijuana supplies, next to the domestic crop, which the gangs keep equally as violent. That is not even mentioning the wars going on in Asia and south America. I mention Mexico, because its prime drug is in fact marijuana.  Hundreds die in these events. Children are exposed to the violence and drugs. 



			
				Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> Because laws are *never* wrong. Jesus, I just spelled it out for you how it's different. Problem is you're going to have to prove point 1 in order to prove point 2.



We are not discussing the moral, civil or religious justness of this law. It is indeed against law to smoke marijuana. That is the basis of our conversation. The fairness of such laws is another matter entirely. 



			
				Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> Yes, it is my choice to break a law which is pointless, unjust, and in some cases even anti-religious. It's also my choice to do it in private, where anyone who doesn't want a contact buzz doesn't have to get it, negating the possibility of anyone else being affected by it. *That* is a logical solution. What *you* are talking about is doctrine. Of course, to not know the difference, you either have to be ignorant or throw logic out the window. Not unlike the difference between smoking pot and committing armed robberies.




Ah. But then, we are not discussing whether or not they are wrong, anti-religious or unjust are we? Our conversation revolves around FACT, not ideology or hope. It is against the law to smoke marijuana. Pure and simple. What I find happening here, is that people who break a law they believe is unjust are placing blame on those who feel it is wrong for them to break said law. Instead of fighting the lawmakers, we fight each other over it. Why not fight for what you believe? Why not take action? No, of course not. That would cut into our daily hedonistic lifestyles. Some obviously think that breaking the law in their homes is some sort of new-age peaceful protesting. That things will just change if all we do is continue to break the law. I see it as this: People want others to obey and uphold the law when it benefits only THEM. Of course it would be great if someone saved you from an armed robbery, but curse them for turning you in for smoking pot! Did you ever stop to think that maybe the armed robber believes the law he is breaking is unjust as well? Or, perhaps he feels he NEEDS to rob you to sustain his family? Or the man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his children? Does simply labeling an act â€œunjustâ€ out of need or want give you the right to break the law? What would happen if EVERYONE did that? We would be in disorder. No, we have procedures we must go about to maintain a lawful society. We campaign, we rally, we vote and if it comes to it, we WAR. But simply deciding to break laws without actually working to change them, that will lead to total chaos. Civil disobedience without action, how do you expect to validate your cause? But, these are the days of complacency and inaction. It is easy to rationalize smoking an illegal drug to the point where it appears to do no direct harm to anyone but the user. It is easy to forget, rather, completely ignore the violence and sorrow that was wrought to bring it to the majority from countries so far away. Truly, many things we have on this world, especially in more advanced countries are created in such ways. Many things we need to survive. It is unfortunate. A burden all must carry. It is a good thing we do not need these drugs to LIVE. 

Here is the question that I pose to YOU:

If pot were made legal, it would DEVASTATE the incomes of these drug cartels. What makes you believe that they would not label this "unjust", as you have so labeled the law? For every cause there is an effect. This would most certainly cause the drug cartels to DOUBLE their efforts in other, MORE violent fields, including stronger drugs, slave trading and gun running, to compensate for the lack of marijuana profits. Do you believe they will just accept this law? You have not accepted the current law, why should they?


----------



## The Sonic God (Mar 6, 2007)

Surgat said:
			
		

> The Sonic God said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It becomes ones' business when it interferes with his or her life.

I don't understand why one must become so defensive of this, however, I do find it peculiar.

For example... a psycho nearly ran me over with his van. As he sped past me, I wrote down his license plate.

He slammed on his brakes and asked me what I was doing.

"Writing down your license plate."
"Well, maybe you should mind your own business!"

The fact is, it was my business. The man was later arrested.

Maybe it should be your business to think about what you're doing to yourself and others around you.


----------



## Grimfang (Mar 6, 2007)

Fox and Bone, I agree with both of you. Bone, you're arguing the harmlessness of the act and the validity of a law. Fox, you've brought up points of how trafficking is a criminal business, how people like the law when it's convenient, etc..

I think you're both right (with one major disagreement I have that I'll get to...). Although it probably isn't great for your health, marijuana is no cocaine, meth, or heroin. And this is debatable until the end of time, but it's pretty safe to say, marijuana is equally or less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol (although they all have different health hazards).

Now, as far as this goes:



			
				Orthodox Fox said:
			
		

> If pot were made legal, it would DEVASTATE the incomes of these drug cartels. What makes you believe that they would not label this "unjust", as you have so labeled the law? For every cause there is an effect. This would most certainly cause the drug cartels to DOUBLE their efforts in other, MORE violent fields, including stronger drugs, slave trading and gun running, to compensate for the lack of marijuana profits. Do you believe they will just accept this law? You have not accepted the current law, why should they?



The law is already against these guys. We're fighting against these guys to put them out of business, whether it is legalized or not. Legalization of marijuana would only help in the violent trafficking of marijuana. Planes have actually rained pesticides over huge fields to kill off marijuana crops, which seems totally ridiculous and screams "ECO-DISASTER" to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think that at some point, people need to stop listening to what we've been raised to know, and play devil's advocate. even if it isn't your position. Just see what you learn. You may not feel any different, but you may find that you disagree with your former opinion.

A substance that many Americans smoke, and has been proven through studies to be equally or less harmful as tobacco or alcohol, is outlawed. As a result, there is a black market for this stuff. People still want it, and feel that it is their right to be able to use it within their own homes. If it were legalized, the government would profit, cartels will be reeling and more likely to be shut down, marijuana trafficking/crime is no longer a problem in the US...

It was already mentioned, but it seems like the long lost brother of alcohol prohibition.





			
				The Sonic God said:
			
		

> Maybe it should be your business to think about what you're doing to yourself and others around you.



As far as this goes -- I don't see why it shouldn't be legal for in-home, private use. If it were legalized under alcohol-esque laws.

People will drive drunk or stoned no matter what you do. People will speed no matter what. They'll steal, cheat, and kill. Guns shouldn't be outlawed because of the risk of a few individuals using it improperly. Otherwise, everything would be outlawed, and we'd have nothing but these perfect lawful fortress to rest within and yawn.

>_>


----------



## Xipoid (Mar 6, 2007)

dong said:
			
		

> *peek* not going to comment on the actual debate itself, don't mind me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.fallacyfiles.org/

It's a very good read, I assure you all. (Not saying that you need it, dong, but I just felt like using your comment to parallel with the context of my own).

-edit-
Did I say Bong? I meant dong...


----------



## Surgat (Mar 6, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> Surgat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, so how does someone's private pot use interfere with your life? "Some psycho nearly running you over with his van" is to "endangering you" as "some guy smoking cannabis in his living room" is to "________?"


----------



## dong (Mar 6, 2007)

*More irrelevant content*



			
				Xipoid said:
			
		

> http://www.fallacyfiles.org/



Thank you! I considered posting a few links, including this one, but was too lazy to, so much appreciated  



> Did I say Bong? I meant dong...



Oh screw you 8) If I had a dollar for every time I heard that one...I could be a thousandaire!


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 6, 2007)

Orthodox Fox-

Ok, so basically you're backing up your argument with the same government propaganda everyone else does. I know what you're trying to do, and I see right through it. These arguments always go down the same path after the guy (you) can't successfully argue that the state should stop just short of changing our diapers for us. So instead, they bring other states into it, I guess to appeal to some "heal the world" bullshit philosophy, which doesn't work. The developing world, for the most part is a derelict. Do you honestly think the drug trade is the root cause of all the corruption in those countries? Hell no, the drug trade is allowed to prosper *because* of corrupt governments, which *benefit* from it, either directly or indirectly.

Anyway, enough of me humoring your attempt to completely derail the topic and turn it into a foreign policy debate. Which, by the way would fail even if I did allow it to go that route, because this discussion is about cannabis, which is different not only in it's effects and dependency issues, but is also when it comes to trafficking. Allow me to enlighten your ass.

Some drugs, like heroine, are huge exports, as are cocaine, etc. Cannabis, not nearly to the same extent. I don't think I've ever rolled a joint that didn't contain locally grown cannabis. And I'm not from Mexico, I'm from out in buttfuck Egypt, Nova Scotia. Even we can grow our own dope easily. We don't need the cartels. Nothing about my cannabis use, or that of virtually every other Canadian I know who smokes pot is assisting any big time criminals. And as I've already said, selling dope shouldn't be a crime anyway - but, as has already been said, if posession of the shit itself were legal, anyone who seriously wanted it would be growing their own and selling it would be pointless.

You keep trying to redefine what this argument is about when it becomes clear that you're wrong. I'm telling you point blank, I'm not having that shit. Especially not with how conveniently you ignore your own rules. Ex: you shot down my argument that the law is wrong and said the law is fact, as if that's what the debate had been about all along. But you'll conveniently ignore any data suggesting the law isn't based on fact. Which is irrelevent to you, because to you, my argument is based on morals, not facts. Yet you have no qualms with invoking the moralistic argument by asking how I'd feel about drugs dealers being put out of business by cannabis being legalized. But wait, why the hell does that matter? This is all about facts! 

Decide exactly what the hell you're talking about, and maybe then I'll want to talk to you.


----------



## sunshyne (Mar 7, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> Maybe it should be your business to think about what you're doing to yourself and others around you.



If I am sitting here, on my computer, in my own room smoking weed right now as I type this message to you (maybe I am), I am doing NOTHING to myself or anyone around me. Get that through your head. Or, correction: the only thing I'm doing to anyone is making myself feel a little lifted for the next 45 minutes or so, before I have to go to class (a class I am doing very very well in, I might add). I'm not saying if marijauna were legal then it would be legal to do actual dangerous things, like smoke and drive... but as it is now? If you smoke and drive you may get busted for _possession_, but cops don't really give a shit about DUI-Marijuana. I think that should change.

And Orthodox-

You are making no sense, friend. You keep talking about marijuana as dangerous, citing all the people who die in its trade, etc. etc. However, not a single one of those deaths would have occurred if it were a legal industry, because it wouldn't be traded by gangs on the street corners... How many deadly "beer and/or cigarette deals" do you hear about going down on the streets?

And yes, of course drug dealers would feel it an injustice if it were legalized, and their money was taken away. That's a great reason to legalize! You already acknowledged that legalization would cut the prime source of funding out from under the major drug cartels. That's a GOOD thing. Sure, they may try to step up their efforts in harder drugs, but so could interdiction officers and border patrol if they didn't have to care about weed anymore! Not to mention, that drug dealers may step up operations in harder drugs is just a bad reason not to legalize pot. You might as well say: "Well, since pot's 'bad', and alcohol's 'not as bad', we might as well make alcohol illegal. Then all the drug cartels will focus more on making illegal alcohol, and the pot problem will go down!"... now how does that make any sense?


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Mar 7, 2007)

sunshyne said:
			
		

> And yes, of course drug dealers would feel it an injustice if it were legalized, and their money was taken away. That's a great reason to legalize! You already acknowledged that legalization would cut the prime source of funding out from under the major drug cartels. *That's a GOOD thing.*



And I'm pretty sure Orthodox Fox knows that. But since they seem to be obsessed with convincing us we're wrong, they're trying to twist Libertarian ideals to make it sound like legalizing pot would deny drug dealers their right to run a business just as much as prohibiting it denies us our right to use it. The thing is, that's not the case at all. It simply means if they wanted to keep selling cannabis, they'd have to go legit and produce, market and distribute superior shit to what people could grow in their own homes if they were serious about it. It wouldn't be the first time drug dealers went legit. Ruthless Records was founded on crack.


----------



## Mr.Foox (Jun 29, 2015)

To be fair on the gateway thing....I kinda abused opaites and now I just smoke pot. Kinda downgraded.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jun 29, 2015)

This thread is prehistoric.  

Also:

_*FREE WOLF-BONE. *_


----------

