# Thinking of selling art in future at furry convention



## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

How would I go about doing this? and what would be the cost (entry cost and stall cost) Im thinking when Ive improved a heap more with my art. 

But Ive tried selling at art markets and apart from people been in awe of my work they dont buy it as ofcourse its not what their into.

Would you buy my art if you saw me selling it at conventions. 
https://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/hyperkilia/ <my gallery. 
Btw need to know the info from Australia Adelaide cons.


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## Ibuuyk (May 2, 2012)

Buy a spot in the Dealer's Den.


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## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

sorry Im new to this whats a Dealers Den ^^;


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## Ibuuyk (May 2, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> sorry Im new to this whats a Dealers Den ^^;



The place where artists sell their stuff in conventions.


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## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

okay do you know what the cost would be roughly to do that?


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## Ibuuyk (May 2, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> okay do you know what the cost would be roughly to do that?



Varies from con to con.  Also, I just checked your gallery and nope, I wouldn't buy your art :3.  Don't take it personally, though, I'd buy only the best art.


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## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

thats fine Im still learning. Im just a self taught artist TT and Im used to people telling me stuff anyways I was always told at school to give up *shrugs* 

As I said Im waiting till I get better with drawing and stuff.


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## Teal (May 2, 2012)

I also believe you're not ready. Open commissions first, (after you improve) and then consider a table.
Depending on the con tables can cost $60-$250.
I suggest going to a few cons first.

Don't let them get to you, your art is not that bad, you just need more practice.


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## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

hmm might be a bit too expensive then ... might just stick with the art markets :/


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## Teal (May 2, 2012)

I've heard that they way the artists make the most money is the surge of commissions they get _after _the con. And some don't even break even for the cost of the table. :/


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## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

yeah Im just broke litturetly. I dont get commissioned even on the net as people dont have the money no matter how cheep. So I might not be going that way for a while. 

Thanks for the help though.


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## Ibuuyk (May 2, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> thats fine Im still learning. Im just a self taught artist TT and Im used to people telling me stuff anyways I was always told at school to give up *shrugs*
> 
> As I said Im waiting till I get better with drawing and stuff.



Hey, I said I wouldn't buy from you, not that you were bad.  Believe me, I've seen much, much worse.


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## hyperkilia (May 2, 2012)

*shrug* just saying I agree I gotta improve before I look at selling.


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## RailRide (May 3, 2012)

There _is_ such a thing as 'Artist's Alley'. Virtually all conventions have them.

Table space in an artist's alley is free and often times open on a first-come-first serve basis without the requirement of obtaining a sales-tax license (dealers have to do this)

So what's the difference, you say? Restrictions that dealers don't have to deal with. They tend to vary from con to con, but in general, they are: 

--small tables (one-half of a typical hotel-ballroom folding table--and some of these are rather small/narrow to begin with)
--no power outlets (the convention is charged for power usage, so only dealers den participants can use them since they're already paying for their tables)
--only stuff you've made can be sold
--no guaranteed spots--some 'alleys can be comically undersized--last years' FA:United had only ten seats because there were no other rooms to accommodate it
--artists don't handle money because of tax-licensing rules (the convention uses their own tax license to perform the money-handling/tax collection on your behalf at a designated cash register, and pays artists at the end of the day based on their records and a receipt book issued to the artists).

---PCJ


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## Ziggywolf (May 24, 2012)

I see you are located in Austria. The largest con in europe http://www.eurofurence.org/EF18/index.html is located in Germandy, Magdeburg to be precise Sadly the con is fully booked. I sugjest you create a portfolio untill next year.  The cost of a dealers den table is free. I have seen artwork beeing sold there, wich I would consider on the same level as yours beeing sold for as much as 20 euros.  However I advise you to work a bit more on your backgrounds, as it adds more to your image. Seeing that most artists neglect this it would give you an extra edge. 
I also strongly advice you to get them profetionaly printed, the starting cost of this is usually 10 euros give or take. then 1 euro per print, give or take. I would sugest using your local Copycat printshop. Remember to have the files atleast 3000 pixles and in Cmyck colour in Pdf format. All adobe software is capable of exporting as pdf.
Good luck.


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## dinosaurdammit (May 24, 2012)

Ibuuyk said:


> Varies from con to con.  Also, I just checked your gallery and nope, I wouldn't buy your art :3.  *Don't take it personally,* *though, I'd buy only the best art*.




do you try and sound like a dick or is it natural? You could have left the last part out and not sound like a pretentious dick.


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

ok thanks for that. So the dealers den table should be the same in Aus then? 
Yeah Ive started working on backgrounds of late and wont be looking at selling anything at Cons untill I have improved more. 

But thanks for the help  much appreciated.


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## Deo (May 25, 2012)

At the possibility of sounding like a pretentious dick, I don't think you're ready to take commissions. At cons or online. At cons you're competing with the artists around you, so if your art is not up to par you are likely to lose money if you buy a Dealer's table, or you are consuming a space that could have otherwise gone to a more prepared and experienced artist in an Artists' Alley. This may sound harsh, but I am being honest. You don't seem to be able to draw. Drawing is admittedly hard, and if you would like help in learning it I'd be happy to assist you in any way I can. However, your current state of drawing is childish and poor. We can blame anime if it makes you feel better. But the heads you draw are oddly shaped, and that odd headshape varies from drawing to drawing so it's not a style or done with purposeful intent, it's simply mistakes repeated. You avoid drawing bodies by cropping them out or posing them in such a way that you only have to draw one arm, one hand, and one leg: avoiding any proportion or need for symmetry. Your art is improving in terms that you're attempting backgrounds and that your compositions are less awkward, but you still have a long ways to go. You can do it, you can be so much better, but you will have to work for it. You will have to sit down and give a few hours every day to improving your drawing. But once you truly know how to draw, you can draw anything. There are no limits. And you can do that, maybe not right now, but with practice and an openness for critique you can improve.


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

Im sorry but evidently thats one of the rudest things anyone has ever said. If you want to know where I started I did start with anime. But that was years ago and now nothing is based on it. Obviously you havnt seen all that I have done as you say that I dont draw the whole of a body or I had hands and feet. Sorry but thats a no. It depends on the poses I do them in and what I feel like drawing on the day. http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d50on2t nothings missing there and http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=48#/d4ysdpz and http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=24#/d4zowof Sorry I dont see anything that represents anime in there at all. Nope nothing. Perhaps my style is different to what you do or to what you want to see. But thats my style and sadly for you its not changing ok.

Im not someone who hates Critics infact I use them to help me to improve but that imo was no critic that was just as bad as my art teacher in the past telling me to give up because I wont get anywhere.


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## Ariosto (May 25, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> Im sorry but *evidently thats one of the rudest things anyone has ever said*. If you want to know where I started I did start with anime. But that was years ago and now nothing is based on it. Obviously you havnt seen all that I have done as you say that I dont draw the whole of a body or I had hands and feet. Sorry but thats a no. It depends on the poses I do them in and what I feel like drawing on the day. http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d50on2t nothings missing there and http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=48#/d4ysdpz and http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=24#/d4zowof Sorry I dont see anything that represents anime in there at all. Nope nothing. Perhaps my style is different to what you do or to what you want to see. But thats my style and sadly for you its not changing ok.
> 
> Im not someone who hates Critics infact I use them to help me to improve but that imo was no critic that was just as bad as my art teacher in the past telling me to give up because I wont get anywhere.


You don't want to see her being rude, then. 
As for the "style" thing: it's one thing to deform shapes to adjust them to your artistic needs, and it's one thing to draw incorrectly or without consistency. It's through observation and studying that one develops a style, a way to represent the world in accordance to your experiences and philosophy; it's through those things that you learn what suits you best, what material, what surface, what kind of linework, what shapes, what proportions, etc. Not learning things beforehand is limiting yourself and possibly failing at representing what you wish to. 

E.G.
This is a Picasso, do you think he developped cubism from the night to the morning? No, that required learning how to represent objects first to later adjust them to his vision and then perfect his management of those resources. You can actually see the slow transition in his art; the rest of the body may be accurate, but the face has been purposefully distorted to sharper angles and bigger-than-normal facial features, compare with the actual model.   

Deo was honest, plain and simple, and if I were honest myself, I'd also say you have a long way to go. For example: the two hugging dogs/whatever in the third picture have disproportioned heads and jaws, and their arms look really short, their mouths fail to convey any sort of expressivity and the same goes for the eyes, they have typical anime hair (which normally doesn't take individual strands into account and tends to be "spiky"), their eye-brows are vissible above the hair (another anime shortcut), and the muzzles don't belong to any recognizable species. Basically, the emotional impact you were aiming for was killed by akward proportions and poorly conceived expressions, and this applies to the other two drawings as well.

But if you're actually comfortable with this, so let it be. Just don't expect buyers to start falling from the sky like raindrops.


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

I know I have a long way to go. If you haven't read a lot of my other post I have also said that I wasn't planning on selling anything until I have improved -hinting I know I need to improve-  But perhaps the way I draw hair is the way I draw hair so what. I believe there is no rule on which way to draw hair on anthromophic animals (yes anthromorphic because I'm not a fur ) 
After all Ive only been drawing them for under half a year (to be proper, if I was going to include before than I wasnt serious and didnt try at all) before that just animals like http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=48#/d4ygf3h and http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=48#/d4yseil


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## Ariosto (May 25, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> I know I have a long way to go. If you haven't read a lot of my other post *I have also said that I wasn't planning on selling anything until I have improved -hinting I know I need to improve*-  But perhaps the way I draw hair is the way I draw hair so what. I believe there is* no rule on which way to draw hair on anthromophic animals* (yes anthromorphic because I'm not a fur )
> After all Ive only been drawing them for under half a year (to be proper, if I was going to include before than I wasnt serious and didnt try at all) before that just animals like http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=48#/d4ygf3h and http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=48#/d4yseil


My mistake, sorry.
Fair enough. Orginally, I was pointing out more how you used anime cues, but wasn't clear in showing it, sorry (still, anime hair is generally not to be followed either unless one's specifically aiming for that). And we call them "anthros" here, too.

My, the second one of those looks pretty good to me, and even far more expressive and accomplished. I'm not good with animal anatomy, so I can't comment on that, but... why don't you keep up that path? If you asked me, I'd think the other pictures are from an earlier state.


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

no they were drawn before the ones linked in the other post but I had been drawing feral animals far longer about 2 years I think... 

Nd its ok, its more so how people say things. As I said earlier I dont care about Critic, as its how you learn but its they way people right. The way that person wrote saying that my drawings are childish and that I cant draw. Thats really not the right thing to say if your trying to help someone. Yeah Im not as good as her but shes possibly had classes and had teachers who wanted to help and show how to draw. Not the oppiste way round


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## Deo (May 25, 2012)

Wow, you are so very defensive that you mistake honesty for an attack. And then you proceed to being boorish to Ariosto, who is like, the most patient kind person on all of FAF. Your actions strike me as being as immature as your drawing style.

As it is, I was being very polite. If I cut the crap out I should have hit you with this clue-by-four: Your art sucks. You cannot draw. You are putting lines on paper, but that doesn't qualify you as knowing how to draw. It's like a child that knows what a car is, but cannot drive. You know the lines go on the medium, but beyond that you haven't a fucking clue in the dark.
Your "art" is wonky, asymmetrical, you make excuses, you take lazy shortcuts, you obviously haven't spent the necessary time to observe things, your compositions are awkward piles of shit (seriously, wtf is this?), your anatomy is awkwardly manikin stiff at best and at worst is horrifically disfigured like bone-mangled multiple amputee accident victims. You even put left hands on right arms, how the fuck does that work? Is that your "style"? Broken bodies, lockjaw, and stoner eyes?


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

Really, honestly. I said multiple times I KNOW I NEED TO IMPROVE!!! but its the way your talking. Yeah Im not as good as what you are at drawing, but Hey I taught myself all that I know while having teachers from my old school telling me that I should give up. And hey Ive improved since then http://hyperkilia.deviantart.com/art/Art-Improvment-2010-2012-303796400 and as I said to the previous commenter, I hadnt been drawing anthros for long. 

NO Im not saying that OH IM THE BEST ARTIST IN THE WORLD. BUT Hey I can draw, Artist and art teachers have told me that I need to continue as I am really good. So you think Im going to listen to your crap when Ive had MANY artist and art teachers that I meet through art markets and stuff tell me not to give up and too keep going as what I do, do is impressive. Nope I choose to listen to that not what you say.

I would listen to what you say but the way you say it is horrid SERIOUSLY. When I help people out I dont got to them OH you cant draw and your art really does suck oh and by the way you draw as though you were a child. HAHAHA that makes me laugh, thats the meanest way you can help anyone so change it ok? 

If you want to help people yes be honest but be kind about it. 

Thankyou!!


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## Deo (May 25, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> BUT Hey I can draw, Artist and art teachers have told me that I need to continue as I am really good.


Wow, you consume a lot of shit don't cha? And so modest to boot. No wonder a dose of honesty puckers you so.



hyperkilia said:


> So you think Im going to listen to your crap when Ive had MANY artist and art teachers that I meet through art markets and stuff tell me not to give up and too keep going as what I do, do is impressive. Nope I choose to listen to that not what you say.


Didn't you just say that you had art teachers telling you to quit because you sucked? Which is it? I don't do Double Think. As it is they're handling your feelings with kid gloves. I am under no obligation to be overly gentle with you, so I have that rare opportunity for complete human honesty. And believe me, my words above are the gods' honest truth.



hyperkilia said:


> I would listen to what you say but the way you say it is horrid SERIOUSLY.


I said it first nicely and supportively. I offered to help you. And you got bitchy, so I dropped the sugar and went straight for the double dose of reality.



hyperkilia said:


> so change it ok?


No.



hyperkilia said:


> If you want to help people yes be honest but be kind about it.
> 
> Thankyou!!


No. No, don't you "thank you!" me. I offered you kindness and watered down honesty. You had that first and you threw a shitfit. I won't cater to your paper thin skin nor your undeserved ego.


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

The teacher that told me was a while ago hmm I think 3 years ago since then I decided to push myself with my drawings. So yeah. Im sorry If you think Im been that way but even your first statement wasnt kindhearted at all.


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## Deo (May 25, 2012)

Life is going to suck so much for you once you are forced to let go of your mother's teat.


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## hyperkilia (May 25, 2012)

Im going to choose to ignore you from now on. So expect no more replys.

Have a nice day


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## dinosaurdammit (May 25, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> Im going to choose to ignore you from now on. So expect no more replys.
> 
> Have a nice day




people give you actual advice which is what you want- it isnt asspats, you ignore

your logic astounds me.


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## Teal (May 25, 2012)

dinosaurdammit said:


> people give you actual advice which is what you want- it isnt asspats, you ignore
> 
> your logic astounds me.


 This.

As an amature artist you have to learn how to accept criticism. Actually just as an artist in general.


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## Arshes Nei (May 25, 2012)

hyperkilia said:


> Im going to choose to ignore you from now on. So expect no more replys.
> 
> Have a nice day



If you are going to behave that immaturely, I'd hate to see how you treat your potential customers.

Deo is giving you advice, you're not ready. Doesn't matter if you know you're not the best artist in the world. Many at the table are not. There is always someone better. The point is, you are going to compete with people better than you. You may as well spend your time getting better instead of spending it getting upset every time someone gives you advice.


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## laser (May 29, 2012)

I don't quite get the "You're not ready to get commissioned"-argument in this context. 

There are people with worse drawing skills than him/her getting heaps of commissions, be it because they have a large social network of potential customers, because they draw niche stuff, or simple because they are cheap. If these people get commissions, they are obviously ready to get commissioned.

Imma go out on a limb here and say that I personally am a much better artist (though there is still enough wrong with my art to justify getting destroyed by *Deo*) but seeing as I dont get any, I guess I am not ready to get commissions, simply because I dont sell myself well or cheap enough.

In the end, the ability to get commissions does not have much to do with actual drawing skill. But yeah, I guess we can all agree that buying a dealer table would not be a good investment.


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