# ATTENTION BEGINNERS: The Common Errors Thread



## M. LeRenard (May 23, 2008)

Something I thought might be useful for folks before they ask for critiques...
Here we list some errors we find people often making in writing, whether grammatical, stylistic, or what have you, and how to fix them.  Or even just some advice.  I'll start.

Comma splices.  Ex.: "He walked to the store, the apples there cost thirty cents each."  Each time you have a new subject with its own new verb not separated by a conjunction, either start a new sentence or use a semi-colon (if the second clause is to be related to the first).  Corrected: "He walked to the store; the apples there cost thirty cents each."  OR "He walked to the store.  The apples there cost thirty cents each."

Punctuation/capitalization in dialogue.  Ex.: "'How's it going?'  He said."  Despite that 'How's it going?' and 'He said' could be two separate sentences, the 'he' should not be capitalized, as it's a continuation of the original phrase.  Fixed: "'How's it going?' he said."  Also, don't use a period where you should use a comma.  Ex.: "'I got mugged on the way home.'  He said."  Same reason as before; 'he said' is a continuation of the sentence.  Fixed: "'I got mugged on the way home,' he said."

Don't just rely on spell-checker.  It only gets you half-way there.

Never write in all capital letters or use more than one exclamation point at the end of a sentence.  The writing itself should convey the urgency.  Along those same lines, avoid such classics as "'Go to Hell!' he exclaimed."  It's redundant.

Don't submit something and ask for a critique if you haven't yet gone over it yourself.  It's rude to expect others to fix all your mistakes for you, and you end up learning nothing.

Read your work out loud after you've finished.  If you stumble badly on a sentence or find that it doesn't make any sense, rewrite the sentence.  I cannot stress how useful this technique is.

Don't use the same word too many times in close proximity.  Ex.: "He walked down the street.  The street was dark and gloomy, with shadows like goblins lying in wait for an attack.  At the end of the street was a dark and gloomy alleyway, from which he heard a soft clicking."  Read it out loud; it sounds awful.  Better: "As he walked down the dark and gloomy street, shadows tucked away like goblins lying in wait for an attack, he heard a soft clicking coming from a somber alleyway ahead of him."

Always start a new paragraph when there's a new speaker.  Should be self-explanatory.

Don't be afraid to use complicated words, but make sure you know exactly what they mean before using them.

No one wants to buy your book in its current state.  Fix it before thinking about publication.

There=location, i.e. 'over there'.  Their=possessive, i.e. 'their dog'.  They're=contraction 'they are'.

Its=possessive, i.e. 'its head'.  It's=contraction 'it is'.

Your=possessive, i.e. 'your mother'.  You're=contraction 'you are'.

We're =/= were, which is the past participle of 'to be' =/= where, which signifies location.

Who's=contraction 'who is'.  Whose=possessive, i.e. 'whose face was...'

'Everyone', 'someone', 'whoever', 'each person', and the like are all singular.  'Everyone are' is not correct.

That's all I can think of for now ('cause it's, like, 4:15 AM right now), so I'll leave the rest up to everybody else.  Just anything you think novices ought to know about writing.  Oh, and to get the bullets, put 'list' in brackets before each item and '/list' in brackets after each item, if you want to do it that way and didn't already know that.
And if I was unclear or incorrect about something, feel free to mention it.


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## Xipoid (May 23, 2008)

Sometime =/= Some time. Sometime is used to mean eventually. Some time represents a physical quantity of time. "He is coming home sometime." vs. "The project will take some time."


Characters do not have to use perfect English when speaking. Making them have imperfections will give them a bit of a personality.


Effect =/= affect. In most cases, effect is a noun and affect is a verb. Where this does not apply usually involves the field of medicine.


Who vs. Whom. Who replaces something in the nominative case, whereas whom is used as a direct object. Simply put, if you can replace the pronoun in question with "I" use who. If "me" then whom. "He wants to give the ball to me = To whom does he want to give the ball?" "I hate chairs = Who hates chairs?"


Than =/= Then. Then is used to indicated causality style statements. Than is used for comparisons. "If he goes to the store, then I am coming as well." vs. "The red on this car is more vibrant than the red on this one."

Oh god, phone call.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 24, 2008)

Xipoid said:


> Characters do not have to use perfect English when speaking. Making them have imperfections will give them a bit of a personality.



Bunnie Rabbot is a good example of that.


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## LINCARD1000 (May 24, 2008)

Hmm, in the editing I have done for other people (although I am no expert), something a lot of people seem to have difficulty with is tenses. As in past/present/future.

Past: He was standing beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face.
Present: He stood beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face.

For some reason, a lot of people tend to mix it up, which can be a little confusing at times as you try and figure out if an event is happened, or has happened. Just a little something to watch if you're editing for someone else (or yourself).

LINC


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (May 24, 2008)

"Bated breath" not "baited breath".

Pallet is not palette which is not palate. The first refers to a platform of some sort, the second to a range of colors or the actual board on which an artist mixes their paints, the last refers to the sense of taste (physical or aesthetic) or the roof of your mouth.


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## M. LeRenard (May 24, 2008)

You guys are sure coming up with some specifics.  We could write a whole new Elements of Style.


> whereas whom is used as a direct object.


Or an indirect object, like in your example.  'I' vs. 'me', or you could use 'he' vs. 'him', etc.  "He had it" would be "Who had it?" and "I gave it to him" would be "To whom did I give it?"


> Past: He was standing beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face.
> Present: He stood beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face.


Those both seem like past to me.  Wouldn't present be "He stands beside the monster, when it leans over and eats his face," or "He is standing beside the monster, when it leans over and eats his face," like that?  Because 'stood' is the past participle of 'to stand'.


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## codewolf (May 24, 2008)

*makes thread sticky*


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## Stratelier (May 24, 2008)

* "his", "hers", "ours", "theirs", "its".  Notice the lack of apostrophes, and try to keep it that way.

* In addition to reading your story out loud, also read it out loud to someone _else_.

* Don't start every sentence the same way (e.g., "He walked down the street.  He saw a black cat looking back at him.  He didn't believe in superstitions.  So he kept walking....").  This gets repetitive, fast.

* Use adverbs sparingly.  Most of the time you can replace a verb+adverb pair with a single word (e.g., "speak loudly" = "shout" = "exclaim") that means the exact same thing.


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## makmakmob (May 24, 2008)

Woo Hoo! this'll come in handy if I ever _get around_ to writing something.
But seriously, thanks.


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## Vore Writer (May 24, 2008)

I'd like to add on to your "Don't repeat the same word" bit, and that's avoid repeating scenes and what not. If you're going to describe a character finding something while messing around on a computer, try and avoid having the character say "Oh I found it while messing around on the computer." If you feel the need to have it in dialogue, then don't mention it in the description.

That's all I really have to say. I hope it makes sense. It's pretty much what Stephen King says in "On Writing."


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## lobosabio (May 24, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Don't be afraid to use complicated words, but make sure you know exactly what they mean before using them.



Also:  the reverse holds true.  Don't use too many complicated words.  It can get very annoying when you have to reach for the dictionary every third word.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (May 24, 2008)

If feel you must use foreign phrases, keep them brief and make sure they're understandable in context.


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## lobosabio (May 25, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> If feel you must use foreign phrases, keep them brief and make sure they're understandable in context.



And aren't you suppose to italicize them as well?


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## Winter (May 25, 2008)

Keep a consistent writing style. Don't start describing the natural beauty of the clouds in the sunset if you're writing a gritty noir thriller, and never use the word 'ain't' if you're writing high fantasy. There can be comical effects in contrasts, but let this show in the way your characters act and talk. Not in the narrative text.


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## makmakmob (May 25, 2008)

Winter said:


> Keep a consistent writing style. Don't start describing the natural beauty of the clouds in the sunset if you're writing a gritty noir thriller, and never use the word 'ain't' if you're writing high fantasy. There can be comical effects in contrasts, but let this show in the way your characters act and talk. Not in the narrative text.



Would it count as consistent if you continued to compare beauty and horror throughout the story? I mean if you're writing about WWII for instance, mainland Normandy is a pretty nice looking place.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (May 25, 2008)

lobosabio said:


> And aren't you suppose to italicize them as well?



Yeah, but if you don't want to make people download your story off FA you have to upload it as a txt file, and that doesn't have italics.


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## M. LeRenard (May 25, 2008)

> Would it count as consistent if you continued to compare beauty and horror throughout the story? I mean if you're writing about WWII for instance, mainland Normandy is a pretty nice looking place.


It's all about the mood you want to set.  You'd want to describe the beauty of Normandy in such a way that no one questions it's a war-story, which is all about word-choice and what kind of images you choose to present.  Mesh it all together, is the point here, and make every detail count toward that final feeling you want the reader to have.  So like... don't start waxing on about the heavenly beauty of the beaches and cliffs right in the middle of blood, guts, and bullets.
Another to add to the list:

Avoid general terms in description unless absolutely necessary.  Examples are 'lots', 'many', 'several', 'kind of', 'rather', and the like.  If you can't give an exact quantifiable figure, be creative.  Rather than 'there were lots of ants on our picnic basket', write 'a river of ants streamed from our picnic basket', or 'ants covered our picnic basket like moss on a tree in the Everglades', or whatever you like.


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## lobosabio (May 26, 2008)

Oh, and a nitpick I just realized.  God is suppose to be capitalized.


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## StormKitty (May 26, 2008)

In case no one has mentioned it, an apostrophe is never used for simple plurals, only to indicate possession.  And as a couple of others have pointed out, they're only used with possessive nouns, not possessive pronouns.  It's "The dogs are eating," not "The dog's are eating."  Correct use of possessives would be "The dog's tail," (if it's singular) and "The dogs' tails," (if it's plural).  You might see "'s" used with any noun to form a contraction with is, and possibly other words like was or has.  This is not considered proper in open prose but you might be able to get away with it in dialogue if your characters talk that way, e.g. "Catch him!  The dog's getting away," or "Jenny's got a gun."

Some would argue that an apostrophe is acceptable for a simple plural when the noun in question is a single character, e.g. "There are three a's in 'banana'," but there is not general agreement on this point.


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## M. LeRenard (May 26, 2008)

> Oh, and a nitpick I just realized. God is suppose to be capitalized.


The Christian God, since that's His name (the His is also capitalized, as is He, Him, and anything that refers to the Christian God... I guess because it's God and we're supposed to be polite, or something).  Probably the same goes for Allah (because it just means, after all, "God"), but don't quote me on that.
Any other forms of god (i.e. you're a hard-core atheist and want to be disrespectful, when speaking of gods in a pantheon, and the like) are not capitalized.


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## dietrc70 (May 26, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> The Christian God, since that's His name (the His is also capitalized, as is He, Him, and anything that refers to the Christian God... I guess because it's God and we're supposed to be polite, or something). Probably the same goes for Allah (because it just means, after all, "God"), but don't quote me on that.
> Any other forms of god (i.e. you're a hard-core atheist and want to be disrespectful, when speaking of gods in a pantheon, and the like) are not capitalized.


 
The fox gods in my stories refer to God as "the god of men."


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## lobosabio (May 26, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> The Christian God, since that's His name (the His is also capitalized, as is He, Him, and anything that refers to the Christian God... I guess because it's God and we're supposed to be polite, or something).  Probably the same goes for Allah (because it just means, after all, "God"), but don't quote me on that.
> Any other forms of god (i.e. you're a hard-core atheist and want to be disrespectful, when speaking of gods in a pantheon, and the like) are not capitalized.



Yeah, but what about it's use in an exclamation or something (e.g. '"Oh God,' she muttered.")?  I tended to assume that was a reference to the Christian God.  Is that true?


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## dietrc70 (May 26, 2008)

lobosabio said:


> Yeah, but what about it's use in an exclamation or something (e.g. '"Oh God,' she muttered.")? I tended to assume that was a reference to the Christian God. Is that true?


 
I've seen both; it's really up to you.  Capitalizing "God" implies that you are specifically referring to the Hebrew/Christian God.


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## M. LeRenard (May 26, 2008)

> I've seen both; it's really up to you. Capitalizing "God" implies that you are specifically referring to the Hebrew/Christian God.


Right.  If the word 'God' is a proper noun (in other words, the name of the entity you're referring to), it's capitalized.  If it's an adjective (the god Zeus or the god Odin, and the like), you don't.  So for exclamations it's just depends on who's talking.  Either you're taking the Lord's name in vain, or you're just swearing on the general concept of gods.  Mostly, though, I would capitalize that one, because it's a cultural thing that has its roots in Christianity, yes.


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## Calhanthirs (May 30, 2008)

And I'd assume that the same rule would apply for Goddess? Being that, if it's a proper noun (as opposed to an improper one), and being treated as  a name, one should capitalize it, otherwise go with lowercase.
 Speaking of which, I've never quite agreed with the concept of 'If it's important, capitalize it. I'm not that impressed with Tuesdays, there just as good as any other day of the week, but I would have no problem being told to capitalize chocolate.


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## Pto (Jun 10, 2008)

Pretty brilliant thread. I'm far from perfect myself, but I'm disappointed that some of these things should even have to be mentioned.

Something (I'm fairly sure) not mentioned: "Would've" being rendered as "Would of." Drives me crazy!


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## M. LeRenard (Jun 26, 2008)

> And I'd assume that the same rule would apply for Goddess? Being that, if it's a proper noun (as opposed to an improper one), and being treated as a name, one should capitalize it, otherwise go with lowercase.
> Speaking of which, I've never quite agreed with the concept of 'If it's important, capitalize it. I'm not that impressed with Tuesdays, there just as good as any other day of the week, but I would have no problem being told to capitalize chocolate.


Yeah, if Goddess was said goddess's name.
As for 'if it's important, capitalize it', where did you hear that?  Because it's incorrect (in English, anyway).  Capitalization should only occur:
1) At the beginning of a sentence (or of quotations and dialogue)
2) If the word is a proper noun or related adjective.
3) Titles of works (save certain words, like 'of', 'a', 'the', etc.)
1 and 3 are obvious, 2 just means that the noun is used to directly name something (America, France, Abraham Lincoln, etc.), as well as adjectives that are based on proper nouns (American, French, Abraham Lincoln-ish, etc.).  Take, for example, the word 'father'.  When it should be capitalized: "I got a present from Father."  In that case, Father is the noun used to directly name a certain individual, so it's capitalized (it's my father, who I call Father).  When it should not be: "My father got me a present."  In that case, father is being used as a general noun (it's my father, but maybe I call him Dad).
'If it's important, capitalize it' would create a huge amount of subjective chaos in grammar rules.  Maybe I Think What I Have To Say Is Really Important, So I Capitalize Every Word.  Doesn't that look stupid?


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## twilightiger (Jul 10, 2008)

Hmmm, amatuer mistakes eh? Alright. I'll attempt to list a few of the more common errors I've come across while critiquing. And I don't mean run-on-sentences, lack of paragraph breaks, (a new paragraph is started after every complete idea folks, not just when the speaker changes) sentence fragments, incomplete ideas, or improper use of tenses. Although I have seen errors in tense go way beyond past/present/future and straight into the intransitive/transitive/conjunctive/subjunctive category. (Let's just say seeing errors like that make my mind reel and my brain cells cry out in unmitigated agony)

So without further ado, some of the more easily recognizable mistakes I've come across.

Poor use of diction. I.E. Strong words should not be followed by weaker words.

Example: The vicious dog went weewee on the carpet. 

Failure to establish a predicate. (I honestly didn't know it was actually possible to do such a thing but . . . well, someone found a way)

Example: I'm afraid I cannot give you an example of what failure to establish a predicate looks like. To do so would mean lowering my ability to write to an epic level of failure multiplied to the nth degree and divided by the power of zero. It is just that bad. Really, do not go looking for this error. You have been warned. (What I can tell you about it is that it uses multiple nouns in a single sentence. *Looks around and whispers* But you didn't hear that from me)

Improper structure or errors in composition.

Perfect example: As he walked down the dark and gloomy street, shadows tucked away like goblins lying in wait for an attack, he heard a soft clicking coming from a somber alleyway ahead of him.

I'll fix it and you'll see what I mean. 

As he walked down the dark and gloomy street, shadows tucked away like goblins lay in wait as if preparing for an attack. Drawing ever closer to his destination, he began to hear a soft clicking sound coming from the alleyway ahead of him.

One little problem with re-writing this paragraph was that I had to make certain presumptions which altered the delivery a fair bit. Most of them had to do with the application of transitive tenses so I think they can be forgiven.

Okay, the first error I had to correct composition wise was seperating the two ideas being presented. Both 'sight' (the allusion to the shadows looking like goblins) and 'sound' (the soft clicking sound coming from the alleyway) should be seperate sentences since using a comma to seperate the ideas like this carries implications that both are occuring simultaneously. If you want to use sight and sound in a single sentence you need to direct the readers focus specifically in that direction. 

The second was adding transitive tenses. "shadows tucked away like goblins lying in wait for an attack" The word 'lying' is modifying the idea 'shadows tucked away like goblins' improperly. Since, as it's written the context presented indicates that the word 'tucked' actually means 'to be put away.' Sort of like being tucked into bed. But with shadows. 
What I changed was the structure of the idea being presented into a singular compound idea.
Using the word 'lay' instead of 'lying' modified the sentence so that the word 'shadow' became the predicate rather than the word 'goblins' allowing the allusion presented to have both a present tense and a subjunctive one.

Third was my removal of the word 'somber'. This was a bit of a tricky call to make since technically it's a proper adjective, but when its applied in this context it affects mood rather than tone. It was also an error in diction since somber and gloomy are synonyms and somber is the weaker word of the two.

Lastly was the addition of "Drawing ever closer to his destination" This is both a true and a false statement. Its true in the sense that it gives a sense of motion to the piece, but false in that it also fails to identify his location. Although if you simply want to remain obtuse and obscure his destination then disregard the fact that its a false statement. I only added it because without it the last part would have been a sentence fragment and that's a pretty basic mistake right there.

Right, um, that's a fair bit of information to take in right there so I'll leave off before people become too confused. Ciao!


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## M. LeRenard (Jul 13, 2008)

I knew that sentence sounded awkward for some reason.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 13, 2008)

This thread is a gawdsend, though the Naziesque part of me thinks a good trip to the library would put all these mistakes to rest. Not to mention a nice bittov revising.


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## M. LeRenard (Jul 13, 2008)

> though the Naziesque part of me thinks a good trip to the library would put all these mistakes to rest.


Of course, but you know everybody prefers to learn from unreliable internet sources these days, so I figured this was best.  If it makes you feel better, most of what I learned about fiction writing I learned in the library.  I learned about grammar in school, though, which leads me to some rather depressing conclusions.
As for revising, I'm hoping people will come here BEFORE they ask somebody else to revise their work for them.  Half the time I'll revise something, and then the person will go, "Oh, well like I said, it was just a rough draft."  Yeah, well, then don't ask for revision until you need it, and quit wasting everybody's time, eh?  If you know how to fix the mistakes, fix them for Chrissakes.  Otherwise, quit making excuses.  Gets annoying.
That's who this thread is for, mostly.


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## TÃ¦farÃ³s (Jul 13, 2008)

Dang, you're good. Exactly what I was thinking. The first draft bit didn't work for Paolini with _Eragon_, so why should it work on the forums?...Okay, cheap "poor writer" shot, but we all saw it coming.


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## M. LeRenard (Jul 14, 2008)

I've done my fair share of Paolini-bashing, believe me. : )  At least he's a great example of what a writer should not do or be, I suppose.


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## ScottyDM (Jul 14, 2008)

LINCARD1000 said:


> Past: He was standing beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face.
> Present: He stood beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face.


While I agree with your assessment that some authors seriously muck up verb tense, your example is off. Typically when I see a real mess of it, the author has used tense willy-nilly and mixes past, past perfect, and present in the same sentence. You didn't muck it up, you wrote both sentences in simple past tense.

past perfect tense, simple past tense, present tense, future tense, continuous tense.

*He was standing beside the monster when it leaned over and ate his face.* The "standing" is what I think of as continuous tense: the character stood there before now, stands there now, and will stand there in the near future. Continuous tense is weak present tense when used alone, but "was" pulls it into simple past tense. This is probably not right because as soon as a monster would eat my face, I'd stop standing there. A fix: *He was standing beside the monster until it leaned over and ate his face.*

*He stood beside the monster when it leaned over and ate his face.*

To get your sentence into past perfect, I'd change the first verb. *He had stood beside the monster when it leaned over and ate his face.* I'll explain why you'd do this below.

Present tense: *He stands beside the monster while it leans over and eats his face.* An "s" added to a verb casts it into 3rd person singular.

Writing this in 1st person can clean up some of those verbs: *I stand beside the monster while it leans over and eats my face.*
Or: *He stands beside me while I lean over and eat his face.*

This brings up a concept I think of as "story time". That is, the moment when action happens. In a past tense story the narrator (either the 3rd person narrator or a 1st person character) is telling the reader something that happened. If it happened at the moment of story time, then I use simple past tense. But if it had happened before that moment in story time, then I use past perfect tense.

Another reason to use simple past tense wherever possible is an economy of words. When I was a kid (I'm now 53) I thought Hugh Hefner was stupid for saying, "Less is more." As I writer I realize he was spot on. Writing "had stood" when "stood" will do, is stupid. Author and editor Sol Stein likes to say that, "One plus one equals one-half." He means that adding unnecessary words dilutes the impact of your prose.

Dialog in a story is normally in present tense because the characters are living in story time and thus are in the present. If a character tells another of something in the past then they will use past tense, or if they tell of something that will happen then they use future tense.



Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> lobosabio said:
> 
> 
> > Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:
> ...


lobosabio is correct. Just because your story delivery system is broken doesn't mean you should ignore proper technique. If you're stuck with no formatting you can use /slashes/ around your words to show them as italicized.

Italics are a universal method to show far too many things in fiction, such as: foreign words, sound effects, internal monologue, emphasized words, script (such as when a character reads a scrap of paper or a journal entry), and I've seen authors do flashbacks in italics. First, within a story be consistent--if you use italics for some sound effects, use them for all sound effects. Second, don't use them for too many things or you'll confuse your readers.

That said, you can get away with doing foreign words without italics if there is no possibility the words you want to use could be mistaken for English words. I once wrote the following sentence: *"I asked my mÃ¼tter and she told me this."*

That looks okay. There's no way someone would think "mÃ¼tter" was English. During editing I realized that "mÃ¼tter" was plural and that "mutter" was singular, so I changed the sentence: *"I asked my mutter and she told me this."*

I missed it. I read the word as "moo-tah" and not "mut-ter". My critiquers had to point this out to me. I could have left it as plural, but that wasn't right. I needed to use italics. I also decided that to further emphasize the word's foreignness I'd change "my" to "meine". Thus: *"I asked meine mutter and she told me this."*

Le_DÃ©mon, I fully agree with your original statement: keep it brief and make the meaning of the words obvious from the context. Here is the larger context. I'm also using italics for internal monologue as established earlier with the italics and a "she thought" tag.


> "Mama, I want what you and Daddy have--to share my life and my love with my best friend."
> 
> "Wow! I..." _It seemed only yesterday she was the rebellious child, then she says something like this?_ Katrin remembered her own courtship, how she had to fight to win the affection of her William. "There is one thingâ€¦ _meine mutter_ taught me." She got a fresh apple from the bowl. "It's from the old wisdom of my village. Tell no man of this, do you promise?"
> 
> ...





lobosabio said:


> Oh, and a nitpick I just realized.  God is suppose to be capitalized.


_Followed by quite the discussion about when and where to capitalize nouns._

It doesn't matter if it's the Judaeo/Christian God or some other god, if the word refers to a specific deity then it is capitalized. In most types of mainstream fiction we can fall back on rules in some grammar guide, but when working with an alternate reality for our storyworld, our story's god may not be the God, so general rules to the rescue.

If you use the word with a qualifier, then you don't need to capitalize it unless it refers to the one true God. Examples: "the Judaeo/Christian God" and "some other god". It also depends on audience. If writing for the church, always capitalize God, He, Him, etc. when it refers to the Almighty. If writing for a secular audience you'd not capitalize the personal pronouns.

The Devil gets his due too. When the world specifically refers to Lucifer then capitalize it, but if it refers to any old devil then don't.

I've seen people write, "the Gods", which is not correct. If your storyworld society is monotheistic and their deity is male, then God, else if female then Goddess. If your storyworld society is polytheistic don't capitalize god, gods, goddess, or goddesses.

Common species names are not capitalized! You don't capitalize human so don't capitalize skunk. You do however capitalize the names of specific races such as Zulu or Irish, but not general race terms such as black or white. Something to consider when world building--figure out which of your invented terms are general and which are specific.

There is a special rule when using scientific names: do not capitalize species names but do capitalize genus names and higher. Italicize them too. Example: *Vulpes zerda is one of the smallest members of the family Canidae.* Subspecies are not hyphenated to the species name. Example: *Some diseases that plague humans can jump to Vulpes vulpes hominis, but not to the wild V. vulpes.* Which brings up another rule about genus name repeated in a sentence or paragraph: use of the genus name's initial after the 1st occurrence is preferred.

The same goes for other labels when used as proper nouns. In my example above Penny calls her mother "Mama" and her father "Daddy". Since she uses these as proper nouns (names) I've capitalized them. Her mother refers to her mother as "my mother" (in German). Because of the qualifier "my", I don't capitalize "mother". And I'm not following the German grammar rule of capitalizing all nouns--it's a fragment of a phrase, not a complete sentence. Besides, the story is in English, and American English at that, not German.

When a word becomes a name is left up to your judgment. I'd say if the character using that word does so consistently, then you may do it.


*This brings up the question of commas around identifiers such as names, words used as names, and personal pronouns.*

If your character is speaking to that person then put commas around the name. If your character is speaking about that person then don't use commas. Example: *"Mama, Bobby doesn't like my boyfriend Paris."* Here the speaker is talking to Mama about Bobby and Paris.

Consider the following: *"Bobby doesn't like my boyfriend Paris."* Here we don't know who the speaker is talking to, but we know she's talking about Bobby and Paris.

Then check this: *"Bobby doesn't like my boyfriend, Paris."* Here the speaker is talking to Paris about Bobby and her unnamed boyfriend.

This is just broken: *"Bobby, doesn't like my boyfriend Paris."* Who doesn't like her boyfriend?

If you put the person's name in the middle of a sentence put a comma on both sides. This might look like too many commas to some, but it's correct: *"Yes, Mama, a secret."*

Those are the easy examples. There are a couple of exceptions in my example above: *"Take this apple. Tonight when you sleep put it inside your nightshirt, under your arm."* Note the two personal pronouns "you" and "your". The difference is that in the above examples the speaker was using the name of the spoken as a form of address, but in this example the personal pronouns are used to refer to someone who just happens to be the person the speaker is talking to. That is, the speaker is talking about the person she is talking to.

We could twist this around to refer to a 3rd party: *"Take this apple. Tonight when she sleeps put it inside her nightshirt, under her arm."* We don't know who the speaker is talking to, but we know she is talking about "she".

The issue isn't personal pronouns, but if the reference is a form of address. Example: *"You, take this apple. Tonight when you sleep put it inside your nightshirt, under your arm."* A little impersonal, but it works.


Scotty


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## StainMcGorver (Jul 15, 2008)

Nice thread, it's freakin' awesome 

Now I want to ask a question about proper nouns and contracting them... for example, if a character said, "Lisa is trying to speak." Could you say, "Lisa's trying to speak." or something else?


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## ScottyDM (Jul 15, 2008)

Yes.


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## ciaron (Aug 9, 2008)

thank you for this thread! XD i knew there was alot of things wrong with my writing, but never knew exactly what they were. epic heals! lol


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 24, 2008)

This one came up because of my English class, where we're forced to do 'peer groups' (uneducated students correcting other uneducated students' papers!  Brilliant!).

Try your damndest to make your whole work cohesive.  Think of it like a machine: every piece needs to be focused on making it run.  Attempting to jazz your work up with extraneous glitz and crap is only going to divert your attention from the fundamentals.  You can put as many hood ornaments in your car as you want: if the engine is busted, it's a car nobody's going to want to buy.  Concentrate on the fundamentals before you worry about aesthetics, and when you get to aesthetics, make sure they're comfortable for the person buying the car (er... the work.  Getting lost in my metaphor, here).  In other words, a hood ornament looks good on the hood, but not in the front seat where it jabs the driver in the ass.  Everything has to work together, or it won't work at all.


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## purful (Feb 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Bunnie Rabbot is a good example of that.



Actually "Bunnie" is not a good example. "Bunny" (correct spelling) and "Bunnie" (incorrect spelling) sound the exact same when spoken. The idea behind imperfect speech is to spell it how it sounds when spoken.

For example, "Rabbot" would work if the character was pronouncing it rab-aht, instead of rah-bit.

Some other good examples are:

"Y'all" which is meant to indicate a group of people. 

"I don't want no trouble." which is improper speech due to using two negatives, but it's often used. 

"Whatcha doing." is often used instead of "What are you doing?"

"I don't play dat foo!" as an example of good ole ebonics.

Let's not forget the portrayal of accents! "Vot did you say?" as a russian would pronounce the word "What" as "Vot". Vot (What), Ven (When), Vare (Where), and Vye (Why).

Elmer Fud says "Wascally Wabbit" instead of "Rascally Rabbit".

I could go on, but I think the point is understood ;-)


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## wendyw (Mar 27, 2009)

I think what Ty Vulpine meant is the way in which the character Bunnie speaks with what I guess would be best described as a strong southern drawl, including a habit of saying y'all in almost every issue of Sonic the Hedgehog that she appears in.


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## Cryoforion (May 4, 2009)

ScottyDM said:


> While I agree with your assessment that some authors seriously muck up verb tense, your example is off. Typically when I see a real mess of it, the author has used tense willy-nilly and mixes past, past perfect, and present in the same sentence. You didn't muck it up, you wrote both sentences in simple past tense.
> 
> past perfect tense, simple past tense, present tense, future tense, continuous tense.
> 
> ...



Wait wait wait. You're...kinda making some stuff up here. But most of it is spot on.

There's no "continuous" tense in English. We just have past, present, and future tense. However, we do have the "perfect" and "progressive" _aspects_ (not the same as tenses, but that's getting into nitty gritty linguistic theory mumbo jumbo) which you can apply to any of the three tenses, which lets you create "past progressive," "present progressive," "present perfect progressive," etc. verbs.



> Continuous tense is weak present tense when used alone...


That can't actually happen. You can't have a verb with just an aspect (like the progressive) and no tense. What I think you might be talking about is a present participle, which is an adjective, not a verb. This is important, because a phrase with a present participle and no verb (Ex., "The _running_ dog") doesn't qualify as a complete sentence--it lacks a predicate. But if you add a present-tense linking verb to turn that participle into a present-progressive verb ("The dog _is running_"), then everything's kosher.

Gah! But I have a tendency to run off on technical grammar tangents. To return to the realm of the practical...

_He was standing_ beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face. *Past Progressive Tense*
_He stood_ beside the monster, when it leaned over and ate his face. *Past (simple) tense*

As a general rule of thumb (not a universal law, just a general rule of thumb), if it's possible to use the simple aspect of the verb instead of the progressive aspect, it's a good idea to do so. Simple verbs are more direct, more "decisive" than progressive ones and will keep your action flowing better. Additionally, simple verbs are one word shorter (brevity is your friend) and avoid the use of a bland being verb.

Here's another similar issue that's important to catch when editing: *Voice.*

English has two distinctions of voice:

1) _Active voice,_ which involves the subject doing something, and
2) _Passive voice,_ which involves something being done to the subject.

Ways to identify each:

Active verbs are the easiest. "(Subject) (verbed)." "The cat chased the mice."

Passive verbs usually follow the pattern "(Subject) was (verbed) by (other noun)." "The mice were chased by the cat."

The general rule of thumb (just a general rule of thumb!) is that active voice is preferable to passive. The reasons for that are similar to the arguments in favor of simple over progressive verbs. It's the most "straightforward" pattern, the most direct in the reader's mind, and therefore it lends itself to clarity. Also, it tends to have the lowest word count, and once again, brevity is your friend. 

So! When you're editing, it's a good idea to go through and find all your instances of "was," "is," "were," etc., because they almost certainly indicate either a progressive or passive construct. See if you can switch things around to form active voice, and it will clean things up splendidly.


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## Murphy Z (May 15, 2009)

You should take out unnecessary words (especially if your works are longish). For example:
"He returned the cheese he bought *there* yesterday" can be cut to "He returned the cheese he bought yesterday." Unless it's really important that the reader know it was "there" for some reason, it's redundant - people usually don't go store A and return it at store B. I find myself cutting a lot of prepositions out that way. 

Change up your sentences. I see some stories that look like some factory machine produced them. Put your story at arm's length (or back away from the computer), do those paragraph blocks look different? Is inner punctuation mixed? Of course you should maintain story mood, etc. Don't ruin your story flow.

Avoid cliches.  

Avoid putting things in just "because I thought it'd be cool" and other self indulgences. Be hard on yourself. That little phrase or clause may have been clever, but you're usually only impressing yourself.


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## M. LeRenard (May 21, 2009)

I can't remember if this is in here or not, but even if it is, it's probably a good thing to reiterate.
START YOUR STORY WITH ACTION.  Something I'm seeing too many people do on this site is beginning a story either by explaining the setting (boring!) or with a long passage that's supposed to lead up to the action (also boring!).  Don't lead up to the action.  Start with it.
This is simple, at least.  If there's going to be a fight later on, start with the fight.  If there's going to be an argument, start with the argument.  Jokes?  Start with the jokes.  Intriguing conversation, unusual circumstances, peculiar line of dialogue, whatever.  
Fact is, no one wants to read about some guy getting dressed, or about how the planet Teveron 088 has two warring factions named the Urgblargle and the Hoopernanny who are fighting over the planet's rapidly dwindling supply of Super Amazing Dust, or about how far far back in the past there was some great sorcerer who did something important that may or may not have some effect on the modern day circumstances you're supposed to be writing about.  We the readers would rather be introduced to the story, to what's going on right now with the main character, and we'd like it if what was going on right now was something that wasn't boring.
So when revising your rough drafts, read your story from the beginning until something exciting happens, and then cut everything that comes before that exciting part.  This will be an enormous improvement, believe me.


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## Xipoid (May 21, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> I can't remember if this is in here or not, but even if it is, it's probably a good thing to reiterate.
> START YOUR STORY WITH ACTION.  Something I'm seeing too many people do on this site is beginning a story either by explaining the setting (boring!) or with a long passage that's supposed to lead up to the action (also boring!).  Don't lead up to the action.  Start with it.
> This is simple, at least.  If there's going to be a fight later on, start with the fight.  If there's going to be an argument, start with the argument.  Jokes?  Start with the jokes.  Intriguing conversation, unusual circumstances, peculiar line of dialogue, whatever.
> Fact is, no one wants to read about some guy getting dressed, or about how the planet Teveron 088 has two warring factions named the Urgblargle and the *Hoopernanny* who are fighting over the planet's rapidly dwindling supply of Super Amazing Dust, or about how far far back in the past there was some great sorcerer who did something important that may or may not have some effect on the modern day circumstances you're supposed to be writing about.  We the readers would rather be introduced to the story, to what's going on right now with the main character, and we'd like it if what was going on right now was something that wasn't boring.
> So when revising your rough drafts, read your story from the beginning until something exciting happens, and then cut everything that comes before that exciting part.  This will be an enormous improvement, believe me.





M. Le Renard said:


> *Hoopernanny*




I found this funny. I don't know why,  but I did. I would definitely read a story with that in it.


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## M. LeRenard (May 21, 2009)

Ha ha... then maybe it wasn't a good example to support my point.
You put it in your signature....


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## Murphy Z (Jul 1, 2009)

Avoid "fidgetitis," that is, characters doing a bunch of unnecessary actions while speaking. For example:

"It's sunny out," said Wolf, looking out the window.
"At least it is now," said Fox while rolling his eyes.
"It could rain," Wolf stroked his chin. 
"Then we better bring umbrellas," Fox tapped his fingers on the table.
"I'll put it in the picnic basket, just don't eat it," Wolf smiled a little bit.
"I won't!" Fox licked his lips.
"Are you sure?" Wolf rolled his eyes and sighed.
"How do they taste?" Fox looked up at the ceiling.
[insert more dialogue with every fidgit imaginable here]

Looking out the window  is important, and I'd keep the smiling/licking lips, too, but do we need all the chin strokings, sighings and eye rollings?

Characters doing important things while talking is acceptable, and you can have some fidgety characters. But a full page of dialogue filled with eye rollings, shrugs, smiles, hair twirlings, sighs, frowns, etc. is distracting. After reading some stories here, I remember some characters only because they sighed and shrugged a lot : that's not something you should strive for when writing a story.

I asked a friend about this, and he said those things happen a lot when role-playing. So if you're translating your RP session (in which you can lol and shrug and wink all you want), all those little actions don't translate well into a story.

Don't worry if you think readers will "lose their place." You can have characters just talking for a while. Give characters different dialogue characteristics and have them actually do something worthwhile, or make sure when they roll their eyes, it's rollworthy.


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## AshleyAshes (Jul 1, 2009)

I think that 'Fidgetitis' is an example of what happens when a roleplayer switches to writing and he's been too long used to being expected to come up with a small paragraph for each character's actions, reguardless of how small the reaction is.

Which I can understand in that context, but I find that when I can just have character blindly toss back dialogue in writing without even needing to say WHO said it, it's liberating in comparison.


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## Henk86 (Jul 2, 2009)

Cheers Renard, this will come in handy


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## DreamlessWolf (Jul 22, 2009)

I thought I was bad on grammar errors! lol. Love this and definitely handy for those little rules even I don't know. 
Yes, commas are over used in writing. My high school teacher told us not to use them...then turned around and ask why we hadn't put one somewhere in what we had written (wrote?). 
Did you know "He sneaked past" and "He snuck past" can both be correct? I didn't know that until I read it in a book but the sentence did not seem right to me. So I asked an English teacher.


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## Amino (Jul 31, 2009)

Since M. Le Renard's list of tips is equivalent to a level of English required to pass middle school, I will post more useful tips:

Vocabulary. Using a word requires more than knowing its rote definition. When someone sprinkles their writing with synonyms from a thesaurus, it's painfully obvious; forced and out of place. The best way to build vocabulary is through reading a wide range of different material. You will be exposed to new words, the context in which they are used, and how professional writers use such words. Instead of thesaurus-whoring, use the vocabulary you do know, as it will make your writing have a natural flow and an authenticity to it.

Style. Make every word speak, every sentence matter. Do not try to fluff up paragraphs with needless description and adjectives, unless they truly add something important. There is power in brevity. Editing isn't just rearranging and polishing, but condensing. It's good practice to cut your writing to the absolute bare minimum, and then compare it to the original. Also read Shrunk and White's The Elements of Style. It is the _bible_ of good writing.

Cliches. Avoid at all cost. Make your own damned metaphors and similies, but don't fall into the trap of trying to seem clever by inventing one that distracts from the sentence.

Theme. There's loads of downright terrible furry stories, and they often share a commonality: there is little to no theme, it is a mere "cool story." A cool story to the writer, at least; to the reader it's garbage. Nobody cares about the Adventures of Fuckwolf Battling a Load of Stupid Shits. What is the point of your story, it's purpose? Once you have a theme, the plot should begin to fall into place around it.


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## duroc (Jul 31, 2009)

Amino said:


> Since M. Le Renard's list of tips is...



That part was completely unnecessary.  If people choose to act childish and immature with their responses, than do us all a favor and stay away from the writer's bloc.


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## M. LeRenard (Jul 31, 2009)

Amino said:
			
		

> Since M. Le Renard's list of tips is equivalent to a level of English required to pass middle school....


And yet, you might be surprised how many times I had to correct these things when peer editing in college classes.  These are things people screw up all the time, whether they should have learned it in middle school or not.
Case in point:


> What is the point of your story, *it's* purpose?



I very much second your point about thesauruses.  I'd add, however, that if you absolutely feel like you have to use a thesaurus, use it in combination with a dictionary.  But context is still the most useful thing to know, yes.


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## Amino (Jul 31, 2009)

duroc said:


> That part was completely unnecessary. If people choose to act childish and immature with their responses, than do *us* all a favor and stay away from the writer's bloc.


There are few things I love more than a self-appointed "voice of the community."
Do yourself a favor and uninstall the Internet.


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## Bladespark (Jul 31, 2009)

Well, _I_ agree with duroc.  Childishly sniping at all the people who came before you in this thread, who have tried to help their fellow writers, isn't exactly going to make you welcome.


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## foozzzball (Jul 31, 2009)

Amino said:


> Vocabulary. Using a word requires more than knowing its rote definition. When someone sprinkles their writing with synonyms from a thesaurus, it's painfully obvious; forced and out of place. The best way to build vocabulary is through reading a wide range of different material. You will be exposed to new words, the context in which they are used, and how professional writers use such words. Instead of thesaurus-whoring, use the vocabulary you do know, as it will make your writing have a natural flow and an authenticity to it.



A thesaurus is an extraordinarily useful tool, as is a dictionary. 'A wide range of different material' is not terribly specific and is, at the end of the day, not likely to introduce you to all that many new words except twenty dollar ones being used for effect. To get full use out of these you will, in fact, need to turn to your dictionary and thesaurus. In fact, a far better way to build vocabulary is to toy around with a thesaurus and dictionary and muse on which words you've seen before and which you haven't and possibly why you haven't. The only thing I agree with in this is that it's possible - although inadvisable - to whip out a thesaurus and make use of words you don't understand. It's like gambling! Who doesn't like gambling?



> Style. Make every word speak, every sentence matter. Do not try to fluff up paragraphs with needless description and adjectives, unless they truly add something important. There is power in brevity. Editing isn't just rearranging and polishing, but condensing. It's good practice to cut your writing to the absolute bare minimum, and then compare it to the original. Also read Shrunk and White's The Elements of Style. It is the _bible_ of good writing.


I don't agree.

Or:

This is garbage, the full power of prose is only to be found in its beauty, and its beauty can only be found in contrast. Simple beside complex. Poetry and whimsical artistry beside perfunct prose. Of course every word should matter, but the path to that is hardly brevity.

(Ps. you misspelled Strunk. Also, Strunk's mainly dealing with formal writing. Good to know for any writer, but fiction prose just ain't formal.)



> Cliches. Avoid at all cost. Make your own damned metaphors and similies, but don't fall into the trap of trying to seem clever by inventing one that distracts from the sentence.


Yes, avoid clichÃ©s like the plague. They never help.

(For more thoughts on this --> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/710929/  - oh look, someone promoting their work in an inappropriate thread. How clichÃ©!)




> Theme. There's loads of downright terrible furry stories, and they often share a commonality: there is little to no theme, it is a mere "cool story." A cool story to the writer, at least; to the reader it's garbage. Nobody cares about the Adventures of Fuckwolf Battling a Load of Stupid Shits. What is the point of your story, it's purpose? Once you have a theme, the plot should begin to fall into place around it.


What's beautiful about this is it's actually a complaint phrased as advice. 'YOU PEOPLE SUCK, PULL UP YOUR SUCKS! OOPS, I MEAN SOCKS!'

The word 'theme' refers to many, many different parts of literature. Are you talking about theme as in premise or theme as in atmosphere or theme as in moral or theme as in? Also 'theme' is usually something critics and full-of-themselves academics attempt to apply to a work to try to understand it. If you have to do this while writing it... hooboy...


(Not so secret Ps.



Bladespark said:


> Well, _I_ agree with duroc. Childishly sniping at all the people who came before you in this thread, who have tried to help their fellow writers isn't exactly going to make you welcome.



Yes, but it sure is _fun_. Sometimes a little respectability is a small price to pay for a shot of adrenalin...)


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 1, 2009)

Amino, we actually do try to adhere to a more civilized set of rules on this particular board.  I thought your snipe was humorous because you made one of the mistakes I pointed out in the post you were referencing (I'm going to assume that was a typo, by the way, and not through any amount of ignorance on your part... because I'm a nice guy like that), but we would all appreciate it if you kept that kind of high-horse, snarky bullshit to yourself from now on.
Really, that goes for everyone, but of course everyone is totally free to ignore me like everyone always does.  At the very least, don't turn any threads into drama-fests.

Anyway, on topic... I have some comments about theme, but I think it would be better if we discussed it in a different thread.  Foozzzball, you start it this time.  Everyone's probably sick of my name on everything by now.


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## foozzzball (Aug 1, 2009)

Oui, mon capitan!


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## Shotgunjim (Aug 9, 2009)

Thanks! I found some good tips on here.


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