# Which type of gun do you prefer?



## Darkwing (Aug 7, 2009)

As far as I know, there are 5 types of guns.

Airsoft, BB, Air, CO2, and of course regular firearms.

So which one do you prefer?

My personal preference for now would be Airsoft, however, I never got to use a CO2 gun yet, so I am not sure if Airsofts are really my preference.

But I am actually planning to get a CO2 Handgun for my birthday, which is this month, one or two weeks from now to be exact 

Okay, here are the pro's and con's of each type of gun:

*Airsoft Guns*:
Pro's:

-Make realistic looking and badass replicas of real weapons.
-Are cheap. (Cheapest one I found was $9.97)
-You can shoot your friends with them without putting a hole in them 
-Are Fun to collect

Con's:

-Their fps usually range from 150-500, therefore, making it almost useless for target shooting
-Some Airsofts are complete BB eaters, and eat away hundreds of BBs very easily.
-Some of the automatics can get jammed easily.
-A lot of them have plastic parts, and the ones with the metal ones are hard to find and are expensive, let alone are banned from a few countries.

*BB Guns:*

Pro's:

-They are cheap.
-They get a fair fps, 350-700 fps.
-They are built for target shooting.

Con's:

-They don't make good replica's, a lot of them are made out of wood and have that very "Old fashioned" look.
*
Air rifles:*

Pro's:

-They are cheap.
-They get an impressive fps, 750-1300.
-They are excellent for target shooting.

Con's:

-See BB Guns.

*CO2 Guns:*

Pro's:

-They get a great fps, 800-1500.
-A lot of them have metal parts, therefore making badass replicas

Con's:

-They are expensive.

*Firearms:*

Pro's:

-It is the real thing!
-They get a great fps, 1000-I don't know
-Makes great for Home Defense >:3
-Makes great target shooting.
-Brings a lot of the other gun types to shame

Con's:

-They are expensive
-They give out a lot of recoil
-They are loud
-You have to go through a lot of legal work/papers to obtain one

So yeah, what is your favorite gun type?


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## Duality Jack (Aug 7, 2009)

I was a sharpshooter in the Canadian Reserves. So I like the real thing.


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Aug 7, 2009)

I don't know, I was never fond of replicas, yet alone firearms collections.

But I'd really have to go with actual firearms. With a preferences for revolvers, because I actually know how to handle one.


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## LizardKing (Aug 7, 2009)

Ones with blades


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## Darkwing (Aug 7, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Ones with blades



Oh yes, those are badass, too bad they don't have a name for it, though : /


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## the grey fox (Aug 7, 2009)

i vote combat knife. why kill the foe from afar when you can get close enough to smell the blood?


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## lilEmber (Aug 7, 2009)

Airsoft.


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## Torrijos-sama (Aug 7, 2009)

Real thing...
None of you have shot a Ruger mini-14, or any Glock, have you?


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## lgnb695 (Aug 7, 2009)

I prefer my big fucking boomstick.

/thread


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## Darkwing (Aug 7, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Airsoft.



About damn time someone voted Airsoft


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## lilEmber (Aug 7, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> About damn time someone voted Airsoft


You can shoot friends with it, you can simulate scenarios, there's no harm involved ('cept for the morons, and they could choke on food just as easily) and airsoft guns can't be used by criminals. :O


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

A Beretta M9 handgun. Oh my lawd. *Gungasm*


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 7, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> A Beretta M9 handgun. Oh my lawd. *Gungasm*



.500 revolver FTW.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

I love guns. My pastor and I were out shooting, and he brings out this Russian SKS and a friggin' M1 Garand. I nearly had a seizure.

P.S. The M1 Garand has a MEAN kick. Ow.


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## Azbulldog (Aug 7, 2009)

I don't know if paintball should count too, but if you're going to get a gun, get a real one.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 7, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> I love guns. My pastor and I were out shooting, and he brings out this Russian SKS and a friggin' M1 Garand. I nearly had a seizure.
> 
> P.S. The M1 Garand has a MEAN kick. Ow.



what did ja expect? i went to the Patton Museum, about 50 ft away, i start naming off Springfield 1903, M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine, Thompson SMG, Colt .45 1911. then caliber and everything.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

I also found out I'm a dead shot with an SKS and a good ol' .45

Two head shots with the .45, one after another. Blammo.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 7, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> I also found out I'm a dead shot with an SKS and a good ol' .45
> 
> Two head shots with the .45, one after another. Blammo.



first time at Knob Creek, i took a .22 with iron sights started picking off bowling pins at 50 yrds, the same rifle cept golfballs at 80 yrds. first real time shooting.


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## Hateful Bitch (Aug 7, 2009)

Funnily enough, I've never held a gun other than an air-rifle. Which is Airsoft, so I'll have to vote that.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

Teto said:


> Funnily enough, I've never held a gun other than an air-rifle. Which is Airsoft, so I'll have to vote that.


Air rifle is a choice, y'know. :/


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## Darkwing (Aug 7, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> airsoft guns can't be used by criminals. :O



Unless they painted/modded it to look like a real one.

But who would be moronic enough to do that?


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## Hateful Bitch (Aug 7, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> Air rifle is a choice, y'know. :/



Just saw that.

Shit.

It's apparent I know nothing about weapons.

Edit: Or how to read.


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## Darkwing (Aug 7, 2009)

Azbulldog said:


> I don't know if paintball should count too



FUUUUUUUUUUUU-

God I forgot paintball


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

My ten year old little brother kicked my ASS at paintball. The little bastard is too small to hit!


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## Xanadu (Aug 7, 2009)

I prefer the mounted type that can't be carried.  But my favorite personal "gun" would either be my Winchester 86, lever action 30-30; or my S&W 4043 .40 cal.

The real thing, all the way.


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## Runefox (Aug 7, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Ones with blades



They're called bayonets.

Aaaanyway, since they're legal, Air Rifles. I've got one myself, but the sights were never properly calibrated and it's been roughed up a little, so it's not accurate at all. It actually came with a scope, but it was also never calibrated and the rail's busted up too much to keep it steady. It's realistic-looking, all black, and can fire BB's with an internal magazine, along with single-shot pellets, bolts and darts, so long as they're .177 calibre. Break-barrel operation. It's certainly not an Airsoft... I can't recall the company now for the life of me. It looks an awful lot like one of these, but it's a break-barrel and the rear portion of the iron sights are further back on the gun.

Firearms here would require me to go through a rather extensive process, and even then I'm limited by law as to what I can buy - And then, there aren't any ranges around here that I'm aware of aside from at a police station. Plus, they're expensive, as is the ammunition. Pellets and BB's are way cheap.

However, if there's one firearm that I could get my hands on that's legal, it'd be either a Mosin-Nagant M91/30 or a Karabiner 98k. Cheap as dirt (compared to things like AK's and AR's, which are illegal to purchase here), actually useful, and historically fascinating.


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## BigPuppy_Stuart (Aug 7, 2009)

Firearms.


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## Darkwing (Aug 7, 2009)

Runefox said:


> They're called bayonets.



Oh yes, that was what it was. The word was on the tip of my tongue


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

I've always preferred handguns. Whether they be automatic or semi-auto. Relatively lightweight, and I'm a bastard with one.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 7, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> I've always preferred handguns. Whether they be automatic or semi-auto. Relatively lightweight, and I'm a bastard with one.



i prefer the Ailen Blaster, or the Ailen Atomizer.


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## Arcane hollow (Aug 7, 2009)

Aw hell, Firearms, nothing like the sound of the sonic boom of a high caliber round leaving the business end of a rifle. I prefer rifles my self, but my personal favorite weapons of all time are the P-90, and the M-107, I'm still going through the legal gantlet of getting my class 3 dealer license.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 7, 2009)

Might as well put up my favorite handguns.

1. Beretta M9
2. Glock 18 (Can go automatic.)
3. Colt 1911
4. Desert Eagle
5. .357 Magnum


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## Liam (Aug 7, 2009)

What about handmade guns?  They suck as a weapon in general , but the concept is basically pure awesomeness.

(There are super soaker flame throwers out there: even more awesome)


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 7, 2009)

gulielmus said:


> What about handmade guns?  They suck as a weapon in general , but the concept is basically pure awesomeness.
> 
> (There are super soaker flame throwers out there: even more awesome)



easy to make, cover the tip in foil or a metal to prevent melting, duct tape a blowtorch on the end, and fill it with gasoline.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 8, 2009)

The kind that shoots lasers.

And flamethrowers.


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> 1. Beretta M9
> 2. Glock 18 (Can go automatic.)



I see you like the Beretta M9 (m92fs) but also like the Glock 18(c) because it can go automatic. Let me introduce you to the Baretta M93r, ignore the stock because it's much cooler to dual these bad-boys like a true Operator.


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## Kivaari (Aug 8, 2009)

Depends what it's used for. If were going for fun, airsoft. You can have skirmishes with them. (Well I have heard of some people doing it with BB guns, though that's less safe) They are cheap to operate, and depending on the one you get, can be good for target practice. I have a Tokyo Marui Hi-Capa (Replica of a double stack 1911) and it's great for target shooting, people in Japan have competitions with them because guns are banned over there. (Or something like that, been awhile since I've read up on it.) They aren't close to the kick of a real gun, but hey, if you and your friend were shooting real guns at each other, chances are you will end up arrested or dead.

Also, what do you mean by CO2 gun? Wouldn't that fall into the first 3 categories?


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I see you like the Beretta M9 (m92fs) but also like the Glock 18(c) because it can go automatic. Let me introduce you to the Baretta M93r, ignore the stock because it's much cooler to dual these bad-boys like a true Operator.



O.O

*Gungasm*

NEWFDRAGGIE IS MY JESUS FOR THE REST OF THE WEEK.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I see you like the Beretta M9 (m92fs) but also like the Glock 18(c) because it can go automatic. Let me introduce you to the Baretta M93r, ignore the stock because it's much cooler to dual these bad-boys like a true Operator.



i prefer German or U.S. guns, but can i have your babies?


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

Sponge Cat said:


> Also, what do you mean by CO2 gun? Wouldn't that fall into the first 3 categories?


No he means air rifles (either pellet, bb, or other) that don't use spring for its energy, but instead use cylinders (several sizes) of compressed CO2 gas to propel the projectile. Quite common nowadays.


Ahkmill said:


> O.O
> *Gungasm*
> NEWFDRAGGIE IS MY JESUS FOR THE REST OF THE WEEK.


Yay! There's also the fully automatic Mauser M712, which is basically a fully automatic C96 Mauser with a detachable box magazine, instead of a top loading clip for an internal magazine.


blackfuredfox said:


> i prefer German or U.S. guns, but can i have your babies?


You'll like that M712 as well then, seeing as it is German.

I kinda dislike Glocks do to the polygonal rifling.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Yay! There's also the fully automatic Mauser M712, which is basically a fully automatic C96 Mauser with a detachable box magazine, instead of a top loading clip for an internal magazine.
> 
> You'll like that M712 as well then, seeing as it is German.



PLEASE, CAN I HAVE YOUR KIDS, THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST AWESOME GUNS IVE EVER SEEN. i still like Heckler and Koch.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Yay! There's also the fully automatic Mauser M712, which is basically a fully automatic C96 Mauser with a detachable box magazine, instead of a top loading clip for an internal magazine.


Nice action, but I really like the smooth shape of the Beretta much better. I remember doing a modern rendition of Shakespeare's "Comedy of Errors" and my prop gun was a Beretta. I threw such a bitch fit. I was so happy~


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> PLEASE, CAN I HAVE YOUR KIDS, THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST AWESOME GUNS IVE EVER SEEN. i still like Heckler and Koch.


I don't want kids though... ._.
Maybe you can have them, then I can punch you in the belly as a compromise. :3
But Heckler & Koch have the HK-VP70, the stock is ... stock, I don't think you can remove it without serious modifications; the fire select and safety is on the stock.


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## Kivaari (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> No he means air rifles (either pellet, bb, or other) that don't use spring for its energy, but instead use cylinders (several sizes) of compressed CO2 gas to propel the projectile. Quite common nowadays.


I know what they are (I have a CO2 airsoft pistol myself) I'm just wondering why they are separate from the first three.

I guess going on airsoft forums you learn quite a bit about real guns. I already knew of the G18c, M93r, M712, and pretty much everything else listed in here.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm a fan of mostly American and Italian firearms. Beretta's and Colts are my babies.

Let's count down my five favorite rifles now!

1. M16 (Scarface solidified this as my favorite rifle)
2. M82A1 Barrett (How about a nice serving of I JUST BLEW YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF)
3. OICW (Light, rather compact, and packs a punch)
4. M1 Garand (A classic. The kick on it can suck my ass, though)
5. Browning Automatic Rifle (Bang, bang. Another Nazi bites the dust)


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## WolvesSoulZ (Aug 8, 2009)

Personaly, i preffer airsoft, since you can still collect them for their look, also, you don't need to register them, and you can shoot people at airsoft game with them, so it's all win.

I see no use for me in real firearms.


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## FurryFox (Aug 8, 2009)

Firearms ... specifically Sniper Rifles :3


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## KaiFox (Aug 8, 2009)

Sawed-off Shotgun.  It's too brutal.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

Hitman344 said:


> Sawed-off Shotgun.  It's too brutal.



Heheheh, nice, Sicilian methods. I like~


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> 1. M16 (Scarface solidified this as my favorite rifle)
> 2. M82A1 Barrett (How about a nice serving of I JUST BLEW YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF)
> 3. OICW (Light, rather compact, and packs a punch)
> 4. M1 Garand (A classic. The kick on it can suck my ass, though)
> 5. Browning Automatic Rifle (Bang, bang. Another Nazi bites the dust)



Not to be a dick and you have every right to have these as your favorite weapons regardless of the information I give you from this point on, but:

The M16 has several models, the most popular of which were:


> M16a1 - Colt Model 603
> M16 - Colt Model 604
> M16a2 - Colt Model 645
> M16a3 - Colt Model 646
> M16a4 - Colt Model 945


The a1 variant is bad (suffering from dirty gas, jamming, it was bad in many other ways as well), as is the a3 variant (being bad, not as much as the a1, but it sucked); only the a2 and a4 are used with the a4 taking over; it's derived from the Colt ArmaLite AR-15, the original. There are improvements on the M16 such as the Canadian Colt C7, which is superior in design to the m16 and looks relatively the same; performing much better, faulting a lot less, and being about the same price.
Nonetheless, the M16 (personally the C7 or A4) and its brothers (sisters?) are fabulous. :3

The M82a1a has a new model out now, the M107; all the benefits plus improvements, no negatives. It's smaller, lighter, more accurate, has less wear, cooler looking (slightly different look), and has other improvements. it's basically an total upgrade using more modern technologies and alloys. Still, nonetheless an amazing choice.

Now here's a issue I have with your favorites, the OICW... that entire project was scrapped for many reasons the biggest being very heavy, bulky, and useless.
The only positive side about the weapon was the airburst grenade launcher and that has been split off into the XM-25 as another project, I doubt it'll make it past the experimental X stages either. The OICW system had all types of issues ranging from jamming, overheating, malfunctions, loose connections, and simply being a POS. It didn't have iron-sights, relied entirely on a computer for just about everything and that computer easily faulted, and it didn't work if it was wet, dirty, or any other general use effects on weapons.

Even the XM8 was canceled for some reasons listed above, it was only looked at because of modular ability but the SCAR took the lead between the OICW and the XM8, the FNSCAR has actually passed the X stage and is moving into use by Marines and other fighting forces. Beautiful weapon: can be chambered in 5.56x45mm and 7.62x45mm, is modular, is sturdy, has plenty of rail systems, ambidextrous operation, accurate, can take abuse and wear.

M1 Garand , enough said. It was amazing for its time, is awesome to fire even now, other than its weight, reload issues, and jamming it was basically amazing. Of course it doesn't compare with modern firearms but it wasn't built in a modern time and thus gains a spot on one of my awesome lists. ;3

BAR was basically eight M1 Garands in one, though jamming issues and weight problems occurred it could suppress with the equivalency of six to eight riflemen all on its own and that deserves some award.


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## Jelly (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm not really a gun fetishist, and I don't like to hurt people.
BUT I WILL GRR

So, I guess, IDK a spudgun. Because you can shoot a potato into an object and watch it blow up and that's fine. I mean, its a waste, but that's fine.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> A BUNCH OF CRAZY GUN STUFF



Nah, you're not being a dick. In fact, you've convinced me to move the M1 and the BAR up passed the OICW on that list. xD

You're even more Jesus to me now. <3


Edit: MINIGUUUUUUUUUUN! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Machine-Guns/GE_XM214_Minigun-2.jpg


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

I think I was kinda being a dick though, my opinions weren't really requested but I thank you for not being upset. I just really hate the OICW because when I first heard about it I was like like *gleee* then I read into it and was like *...* x3

For instance on your "it's light" reasoning, look at this:
Weight of XM29 OICW - 8.2 kg
Weight of M16 - 4.0 kg


> Various problems have effectively ended the program as it was originally envisioned, including weight, bulk, and lack of effectiveness of the 20 mm airburst round. Upon cancellation in 2004, it was split into three related programs.


Split into the XM25 and XM8, the XM8 is canceled and the XM25 is still undergoing development.

The FN SCAR took over the HK XM8's role and it has several looks so don't be turned off by how it looks on wiki, that's the base look; the SCAR is almost totally modular: the stock, the rails, the barrel, the upper receiver it can be made to look like the XM8 or almost like a M16.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I think I was kinda being a dick though, my opinions weren't really requested but I thank you for not being upset. I just really hate the OICW because when I first heard about it I was like like *gleee* then I read into it and was like *...* x3


Heheh, that's sorta how things just went for me. xD

Fuck the OICW, I'll just stick with the Steyr AUG or the G11.


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

Mmmm...AUG. <3 (also I edited my previous post with more information you might like to read)


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Mmmm...AUG. <3 (also I edited my previous post with more information you might like to read)



The AUG is greatness. I can't believe I put OICW in that list before that. *Slaps self repeatedly*

And the G11 is just so... cute! I want to hug one!


Well, I'm off to have dreams about pink dragons with big guns. (Take that meaning however you wish)

Ciao~


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> The AUG is greatness. I can't believe I put OICW in that list before that. *Slaps self repeatedly*


I thought it was great as well, don't beat yourself up over it.


> And the G11 is just so... cute! I want to hug one!


I know nothing about this weapon but I have seen a chinese look-alike...must read into it. :3


> Well, I'm off to have dreams about pink dragons with big guns. (Take that meaning however you wish)


Oh god... I ... I don't even own weapons or use firearms anymore (other than airsoft/paintball) so you must ... so that means... I'll just stop here. ._.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Aug 8, 2009)

Air rifle because I own two.  Love my Crosman StormXT.


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## Runefox (Aug 8, 2009)

As far as assault rifles go, I'm more a fan of the Kalashnikov lineup than the AR-series. I mean, the AR-15 series of weapons look sexy and fire an accurate round (particularly the C7/C8 and other improved variants), but they've been marred with difficulties and firing them in adverse conditions is asking for trouble - Especially if you're working amphibiously. An AKM (7.62x39mm, what most people erroneously call AK-47, due to there being only very minor differences and almost zero visible), AK-103 (modernized variant) or an AK-74/105 (5.45x39mm variant) are vastly better in terms of ruggedness and reliability, notoriety, ease of use and manufacture, ease of maintenance, and in the case of the 7.62x39mm weapons, have better stopping power within their effective ranges. While those ranges (400-500 metres, depending on the model) are lower than the AR-15 series (400-600 metres, depending on the model), the general consensus is that 300 metres is where most combat takes place, which is well within both rifles' maximum effective ranges.

Plus, the wood furniture of the classic AKM/AK-74 rifles is just sex.

Also, the OICW (the XM29) is a weapon system - Which is basically a submachinegun firing 5.56mm rounds strapped to a fire control system and a grenade launcher / cannon. Technically it does have iron sights if you detach everything and use the SMG, but that leaves you with just the rifle, which as I understand it fires quite loudly, with a bright flash. This was due to the requirement to reduce weight from the extremely-heavy, bulky rifle. In other words, the rifle portion sucked. Terribly.


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## Krevan (Aug 8, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> .500 revolver FTW.



Haha the good old M500. Im buying one of those and a kimber .45 when my deployment is over. That thing kicks like a BEAST!

Anywho I voted real guns. I love airsoft cause you can shoot your friends with them. But thats about it, I love the feel of recoil. Airsoft guns seem kind of lame after shooting the real thing but they each have their own purposed.

My favorite gun that I own is a S&W M29 .44 Mag <-- Dead sexy Dirty Harry style.

As per the M16 series. I hate them, far far far too weak and they jam way too much. Pain in the ass to clean as well. I wish they didnt issue us these pieces of crap. I have an M4 and its still crap.

The tankers standard issue berettas are garbage too however I do like the civilian ones. Our barrels are almost smoothbore and the trigger pull is as far back as possible. I was shooting at a rock 25 feet away and bullets were winging left right and straight down into the dirt lol (Im a good shot with handguns mind you)

I would give anything to get my hands on a SCAR .308


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I know nothing about this weapon but I have seen a chinese look-alike...must read into it. :3


Look at this little thing! It's just so cute! Not to mention it's an H&K, so fans of Germen weaponry behold.
http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_G11-2.jpg




NewfDraggie said:


> Oh god... I ... I don't even own weapons or use firearms anymore (other than airsoft/paintball) so you must ... so that means... I'll just stop here. ._.


*Giggles innocently*


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## Firlan (Aug 8, 2009)

I do so love my H&K USP.  I obviously voted firearms because it's one of the few things that help me really relax.  Not in the GRRRR I hate things BANG BANG BANG way, but the fact you have to show your firearms respect and concentrate or you could make a big mistake.

Of all of you who voted firearms and go shooting on a regular basis, would you agree it helps you relax?  It's just you, your gun, and your target; no cell phone bill no drama or anything like that.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Haha the good old M500. Im buying one of those and a kimber .45 when my deployment is over. That thing kicks like a BEAST!
> 
> Anywho I voted real guns. I love airsoft cause you can shoot your friends with them. But thats about it, I love the feel of recoil. Airsoft guns seem kind of lame after shooting the real thing but they each have their own purposed.
> 
> ...



wait, are you Army, or Marines? because i thought that they allowed you to bring a hadgun, then again i got told this from a recruiter, so i dont know.

also Firlan, it is quite stress relieving imagine just getting to destroy shit with yiur eyes and a piece of metal that send hot pieces of lead at your choice of targets.


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## Wreth (Aug 8, 2009)

Fuck you OP water pistols are the best!


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## Shino (Aug 8, 2009)

I spend all day (well, night actually) at work walking around with a P99 on my hip, so whenever I come across an Airsoft or a BB gun, I can't help but laugh. They seem so fake when you spend your days working with the real thing.


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## lilEmber (Aug 8, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> wait, are you Army, or Marines? because i thought that they allowed you to bring a hadgun, then again i got told this from a recruiter, so i dont know.
> 
> also Firlan, it is quite stress relieving imagine just getting to destroy shit with yiur eyes and a piece of metal that send hot pieces of lead at your choice of targets.



They allow you to bring a primary or a sidearm of your choice, but there's limitations on what ones you can take. You also need to supply your own ammo and magazines so it would be preferred to take something 5.56x45mm (or maybe that's the limit) as a primary and .45ACP, 9x19mm as a sidearm. I don't think .50 AE or .500S&W is even allowed.


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## Seas (Aug 8, 2009)

Airsoft, for the no.1 reason of being able to fight around with my friends.

My favourite firearm category is SMG's, and PDW's (which are usually included in the smg category), and favourite model is the HK MP7A1, it's light, has a very fast rate of fire, and is effective against armored targets up to 200 meters.
A second favourite would be the B+T MP9 , because it uses the more common 9x19 mm cartridge and it's even smaller than the aforementioned weapon.
Among pistols, It's either the HK mk.23 , because of the .45 caliber , or the HK UCP, because of the same ammunition type as the MP7A1.


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## Kivaari (Aug 8, 2009)

Shino said:


> I spend all day (well, night actually) at work walking around with a P99 on my hip, so whenever I come across an Airsoft or a BB gun, I can't help but laugh. They seem so fake when you spend your days working with the real thing.


There are some out there that don't look fake. My Tokyo Marui Hi-Capa looks pretty realistic (Take off the orange tip, and give it real trademarks instead of fake ones, and it will look very realistic) And doesn't feel much different from the 1911 I've held.
Here's an example of how realistic one can look:
http://www.justpistols.co.uk/wa92fs_002.jpg

Plenty of examples in here:
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Response-show-Rifleand-t54812.html


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## makmakmob (Aug 8, 2009)

Firearms all the way, simply for the potential power and accuracy, becuase I someday hope to pursue marksmanship as a hobby. Of course, I will have to settle for air rifles on my own property, so I guess them too for legal reasons.


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## lgnb695 (Aug 8, 2009)

Hitman344 said:


> Sawed-off Shotgun. It's too brutal.


 
This.


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## Darkwing (Aug 8, 2009)

Shino said:


> I spend all day (well, night actually) at work walking around with a P99 on my hip, so whenever I come across an Airsoft or a BB gun, I can't help but laugh. They seem so fake when you spend your days working with the real thing.



Actually, some Airsoft guns are really realistic, you must be talking about the Airsofts with the plastic parts. The Airsofts with the metal parts are where it's at. Some of the metal airsofts are so realistic you can't tell it's fake until you look into the barrel.

Which is why I said that Airsofts make great replicas.


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## WaffleTheEpic (Aug 8, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> you can't tell it's fake until you look into the barrel.


Can't let you do that, Starfox.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

BREAK OUT THE BAZOOKA!


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## Zweihander (Aug 8, 2009)

Anything that can drop a man quickly. P90.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> They allow you to bring a primary or a sidearm of your choice, but there's limitations on what ones you can take. You also need to supply your own ammo and magazines so it would be preferred to take something 5.56x45mm (or maybe that's the limit) as a primary and .45ACP, 9x19mm as a sidearm. I don't think .50 AE or .500S&W is even allowed.



i figured with the .500, being huge as hell, but the great Colt 1911 i still prefer as the best over M-92 for bring the U.S. classic. also im so damn happy, in JROTC, we arent issued bb guns now, FUCKIN M-14 BITCH HELL YEAH, i love that rifle, in my opinion, i like it over the M-16.


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## Runefox (Aug 8, 2009)

Zweihander said:


> Anything that can drop a man quickly. P90.



A P90 won't "drop" anyone quickly. If a guy's charging you, those tiny bullets aren't going to stop him. They'll certainly mortally wound him, but you've got problems if he's determined. He could squeeze off some rounds at you if he has a gun, and he could charge and stab you if he were bound and determined and running on adrenaline.

You need a minimum of a .45 calibre to knock a full-grown man, charging, on his ass and otherwise down for the count. In that respect, an AK-47/AKM's 7.62mm round can do that, as can the HK Mark 23 and Colt M1911 pistols. If you wanted a submachinegun with that, take a look at the HK UMP45, or more impressively, the Kriss Super-V/TDI Vector (video).


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

Runefox said:


> A P90 won't "drop" anyone quickly. If a guy's charging you, those tiny bullets aren't going to stop him. They'll certainly mortally wound him, but you've got problems if he's determined. He could squeeze off some rounds at you if he has a gun, and he could charge and stab you if he were bound and determined and running on adrenaline.
> 
> You need a minimum of a .45 calibre to knock a full-grown man, charging, on his ass and otherwise down for the count. In that respect, an AK-47/AKM's 7.62mm round can do that, as can the HK Mark 23 and Colt M1911 pistols. If you wanted a submachinegun with that, take a look at the HK UMP45, or more impressively, the Kriss Super-V/TDI Vector (video).



or a 1921 M-1 Thompson, SMG with .45 ACP rounds, though you be wanting the drum, 100 round, maybe 20 pounds, loaded.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

How about I go all mobster and pick up a nice Thompson 1928? :3


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> How about I go all mobster and pick up a nice Thompson 1928? :3



i dont think there is much difference, is there? i prefer the old one anyway. good ol' 'Trench Broom'.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> i dont think there is much difference, is there? i prefer the old one anyway. good ol' 'Trench Broom'.


My 1928 Tommy Gun is my sexy baby. After all, my real name IS Tommy~


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

Ahkmill said:


> My 1928 Tommy Gun is my sexy baby. After all, my real name IS Tommy~



you have one? and what is the difference bettween the 1921 and 1928?


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## Kivaari (Aug 8, 2009)

M1928 1921 has a foregrip and if I remember right, either an extended barrel or compensator. 

Just curious, you guys that have airsoft guns, what do you have? I have too many to list, but the main ones I use are a Galaxy MP5k, and a TM Hi-Capa.


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## Lucy Bones (Aug 8, 2009)

Nah, I ain' got one. I am very familiar with the weapon, though. The rate of fire is slowed down a little, making it much easier to operate.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 8, 2009)

Sponge Cat said:


> M1928 has a foregrip and if I remember right, either an extended barrel or compensator.
> 
> Just curious, you guys that have airsoft guns, what do you have? I have too many to list, but the main ones I use are a Galaxy MP5k, and a TM Hi-Capa.



i remember the '21 had a foregrip when i saw an old ad for it, i think i saw one with the barrel mod though, not sure what its called, think of 50's tanks on the barrel like a Barret.


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## Tycho (Aug 9, 2009)

I like the ones that work when I point them at something and pull the trigger.


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## Seas (Aug 9, 2009)

Runefox said:


> A P90 won't "drop" anyone quickly. If a guy's charging you, those tiny bullets aren't going to stop him. They'll certainly mortally wound him, but you've got problems if he's determined. He could squeeze off some rounds at you if he has a gun, and he could charge and stab you if he were bound and determined and running on adrenaline.



The P90 fires 900 rounds per minute , that means 15 rounds per second.
He won't be knifing anyone with a few dozen bullets in him.

Except if we are talking about dumbed down- ...I mean, civilian guns (but I don't think he was talking about that kind), that only feature semi-auto, in which case -SMG's lose their main advantage and then you are mostly right.


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## LucidDarkness (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't know much about guns, so I'll just go with a cute handgun. Something easy to handle, and great in a tight situation.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Seastalker said:


> The P90 fires 900 rounds per minute , that means 15 rounds per second.
> He won't be knifing anyone with a few dozen bullets in him.
> 
> Except if we are talking about dumbed down- ...I mean, civilian guns (but I don't think he was talking about that kind), that only feature semi-auto, in which case -SMG's lose their main advantage and then you are mostly right.



but you dont have a 900 round clip, and i know you mean rps, but how big is the clip, and recoil, to keep on target you have to use bursts. still love M-14, and have you seen the youtube vid of the 1,000,000 rpm gun, damn, 36 barrels.


LucidDarkness said:


> I don't know much about guns, so I'll just go with a cute handgun. Something easy to handle, and great in a tight situation.



then you want a Walther PPK or Makarov, basiclly the same damn gun becuase the Soviets just copied a hell of a lot of designs after WWII, small, cute, and really inexpensive, easy to operate, overall a nice German gun made by the Soviets.


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## Jashwa (Aug 9, 2009)

Firearms.  No contest.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> They allow you to bring a primary or a sidearm of your choice, but there's limitations on what ones you can take. You also need to supply your own ammo and magazines so it would be preferred to take something 5.56x45mm (or maybe that's the limit) as a primary and .45ACP, 9x19mm as a sidearm. I don't think .50 AE or .500S&W is even allowed.



I'm an Abrams tank crewmember in the Army. Naw, no militrary branch is allowed to bring their personal firearms legally. I certainly wish that were true but theres multiple reasons why we cant.

- The army replaces parts and has an armorer to service broken rifles. Its hard enough for them to get the pieces they need to fix an M16/4. Theres no way they can go around ordering parts for everyones different rifles.

- Same thing goes for ammo, its unrealistic for the Army to cater to every soldiers different ammunition. You need to be able to swap ammo with a buddy and it needs to be standardized.

- Theres no way to supply your own ammunition either because your not allowed to mail things like that to a FOB.

-You can buy modifications and parts to your rifle as long as its not a weapon (m203/shotgun) and it doesnt change the upper or lower reciever.
I have six H&K high quality 30 round magazines, an eotech sight and a rubber pistol grip. As for my pistol I have some hogue rubber grips as well.

Theres too many reasons to list but uniformity is the only way the military machine can roll.

We do have a .38 special revolver that the IA gave us when we found it during a raid.

However I can still dream that one day Ill be in my tank with a .44 magnum right? lol


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## Kommodore (Aug 9, 2009)

Well, I can use and Airsoft a lot more, which of course is a major pro. But, BUT, I still like the real thing much more, even though I use it much less. It was close but I feel I prefer the real thing over the airsoft.


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## Seas (Aug 9, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> but you dont have a 900 round clip, and i know you mean rps, but how big is the clip, and recoil, to keep on target you have to use bursts.



What I meant is there won't be just one or a few rounds fired at the person like with a semiauto, but a whole lot more in the same timespan because of the rate of fire. (applies to burst-fire mode too)


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

You shoot someone once and they will most likely stop what they are doing :/


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> I'm an Abrams tank crewmember in the Army. Naw, no militrary branch is allowed to bring their personal firearms legally. I certainly wish that were true but theres multiple reasons why we cant.
> 
> - The army replaces parts and has an armorer to service broken rifles. Its hard enough for them to get the pieces they need to fix an M16/4. Theres no way they can go around ordering parts for everyones different rifles.
> 
> ...



maybe one day, i wish they gave you the choice bettween M-92 and Colt M-1911, now about that .38...


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## Armaetus (Aug 9, 2009)

If you buy cheap Airsoft guns, you get what you pay for. Ultra cheap means shoddy quality work, ESPECIALLY no-name/generic brand.


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## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

Seastalker said:


> The P90 fires 900 rounds per minute , that means 15 rounds per second.
> He won't be knifing anyone with a few dozen bullets in him.


You have 50 rounds. Your magazine will empty in 3.33 seconds in full auto, but the question then becomes how quickly and how many of those you can get on target and how many you're going to waste from spray and pray. More than likely, you're not going to be able to put a few dozen in him, and even so, they're 5.7x28mm. They aren't designed to "stop", they're designed to "penetrate". If you're in an environment where body armour is commonplace, then the P90 is a godsend - It won't knock them down, but it will penetrate their armour and hopefully either incapacitate or mortally wound the opponent where other rounds may not penetrate; In situations where you're not going up against body armour (like with most security tasks and urban (non-warzone) environments), however, the .45 ACP round offers much better performance thanks to its greater impact and stopping power.

On the flipside, go up against an assailant with a .45 and get hit, and _you'll_ be flat on your ass spraying that 900 rounds per minute into the air. That's not to say that you wouldn't notice getting hit with a P90, but you'd still be standing after a couple of hits unless you get hit in the spine, heart or head. Again, the P90 is a penetrator.

I'd like to note that I like the P90, I'm just saying that it isn't guaranteed to drop someone unless you're either a very good shot, you've caught them by surprise, or you're executing them. Same goes for the MP5, except its focus is primarily on high accuracy and controllability rather than stopping power or penetration (in fact, its lack of penetration is what makes it so popular as an anti-terror/hostage rescue weapon), and is usually used in conjunction with tactics and equipment to provide an element of surprise.



> (applies to burst-fire mode too)


The P90 has no burst fire mode.



> You shoot someone once and they will most likely stop what they are doing :/


Unless they're shooting you. =D


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## Shino (Aug 9, 2009)

Sponge Cat said:


> There are some out there that don't look fake.





Darkwing said:


> Actually, some Airsoft guns are really realistic...


I meant more along the lines of "they fire little plastic balls" than "they look fake". I've seen some pretty decent replicas in my day, but when you spend all day handling firearms, even the really good replicas are usually relatively easy to spot up close.

Oh, and a request to all: _please_ do not modify the orange blaze tip on your airsofts. If you're ever involved in a incident where there's a police response, you _will_ be treated as if carrying a live firearm, which basically means we'll have you at gunpoint. Just don't do it. It doesn't make you look cool. It's just likely to get you shot with the real thing. (Didn't happen to me, but a co-worker of mine ended up being forced to fire on someone who had an airsoft Beretta with the tip blacked because he was aiming it at him and the officer couldn't tell from a distance.)


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

I would love to have a 1911. But moreso I want to be rid of my M4.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> I would love to have a 1911. But moreso I want to be rid of my M4.



i prefer the M-14, i cant wait for mine to be issued, good ol' rifle, semi-auto, wood butt, like a larger clip Garand, and i would love to have 1911 too, stopping power, intimadating, U.S. made, and its a good feel. but more on the .38 you speak of.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

I <3 the M14 so hard. We have 5 in the arms room that are for the designated marksmen however Its so hard to get the high quality ammunition the army issues for them We only have like 10 bullets. We just got sexier M14s btw too, the M14 EBR which is like a futuristic looking one but I still prefer the wood.

I wish these were standard issue but due to lack of ammunition we never bring them. Also with the type of terrain and the quality of a ride an MRAP provides, the scopes would get destroyed in seconds.


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## Kivaari (Aug 9, 2009)

Glaice said:


> If you buy cheap Airsoft guns, you get what you pay for. Ultra cheap means shoddy quality work, ESPECIALLY no-name/generic brand.


Yes, this is true. There are some good deals out there with chinese clones though. People have been surprised with some of the shots I've got off with my Galaxy MP5k, and I've seen them for as low as $60 a few times. If mags were cheaper though, I'd dump the MP5k and just use my Hi-Capa. Pistols are so much fun, plus it has better accuracy.



Shino said:


> Oh, and a request to all: _please_ do not modify the orange blaze tip on your airsofts. If you're ever involved in a incident where there's a police response, you _will_ be treated as if carrying a live firearm, which basically means we'll have you at gunpoint. Just don't do it. It doesn't make you look cool. It's just likely to get you shot with the real thing. (Didn't happen to me, but a co-worker of mine ended up being forced to fire on someone who had an airsoft Beretta with the tip blacked because he was aiming it at him and the officer couldn't tell from a distance.)


Even better would be to stay out of situations where that could happen. Use cases for them, don't play in the view of the public, etc.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> I <3 the M14 so hard. We have 5 in the arms room that are for the designated marksmen however Its so hard to get the high quality ammunition the army issues for them We only have like 10 bullets. We just got sexier M14s btw too, the M14 EBR which is like a futuristic looking one but I still prefer the wood.
> 
> I wish these were standard issue but due to lack of ammunition we never bring them. Also with the type of terrain and the quality of a ride an MRAP provides, the scopes would get destroyed in seconds.



well we are getting un-scoped Vietnam style grunt and leatherneck ones, so who needs a scope, what is the ammo again, i rather not screw up on getting it from The Col. or SgtMaj.


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## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

M14 = 7.62x51mm NATO.

<3 M14. =D


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

The M14 is a .308 be sure to buy nice ammo for it. You usually get what you pay for with ammo. I prefer iron sights myself.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Runefox said:


> M14 = 7.62x51mm NATO.
> 
> <3 M14. =D



ah, isnt that the same as the Kalashkinov minus the NATO add Warsaw Pact.


Krevan said:


> The M14 is a .308 be sure to buy nice ammo for it. You usually get what you pay for with ammo. I prefer iron sights myself.



okay, got two differnent ammos here, why not mod it to take 5.56 rounds?


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

What he said is the same ammo as what I said. I just prefer saying it this way. Its easier for me to remember and less to type out lol. Just go to the store and ask the guy for a box of winchester .308


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> What he said is the same ammo is what I said. I just prefer to use the more civilian way of saying it. Its easier to remember.



oh, well sorry, i dont like doing that way, it conffuzzels me, but isnt the same ammo as the AK? and why not mod it?


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## Shino (Aug 9, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> oh, well sorry, i dont like doing that way, it conffuzzels me, but isnt the same ammo as the AK? and why not mod it?


AK-47 uses 7.62mm rounds.

EDIT: no. The weapon you guys are talking about is 5.56mm. Similar caliber, but actually very different. Sorry. Probably should have elaborated there.
EDIT note: wasn't going to make another post just to say no.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Shino said:


> AK-47 uses 7.62mm rounds.



so is that a yes?


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## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

Yeah, 7.62x51mm NATO = .308. Modding it to take 5.56mm rounds... I haven't heard of this being done, but it certainly would give you more options in terms of ammunition availability. But you'd need a whole different barrel, and the accuracy would suffer greatly if I'm not mistaken.

The AK-47 uses 7.62x39mm ammunition (versus the M14's 7.62x51mm), which is directly incompatible with the M14. The M14's ammunition has more mass than the AK's rounds, and is actually more comparable to the big bullets of the bolt-action weapons of WWII. In other words, if you can get it, the M14's ammunition is preferable (though it'll give you a bigger kick, semi-automatic fire should be fine (they disabled automatic fire long ago because of the insane recoil to prevent ammo wastage)).

For reference, the AK-74 (the current Russian service model) fires 5.45x39mm ammunition.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Naw were talking about an M14 man. Its a 7.62.

Firing AK bullets out of an M14 would be disastrous if it even fired.

Important question though, are you buying a military M14 or the civilian variant M1A?


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## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

The AK can use a wide range of ammunition but I don't know of any Avtomat Kalashnikova that uses the 7.62x51mm, the .308 the M14 uses.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Naw were talking about an M14 man. Its a 7.62.
> 
> Firing AK bullets out of an M14 would be disastrous if it even fired.
> 
> Important question though, are you buying a military M14 or the civilian variant M1A?



well, i was wondering, due to the lack of a x(some number)mm, and my friend told me for our JROTC, we get a M-14.


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## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> well, i was wondering, due to the lack of a x(some number)mm, and my friend told me for our JROTC, we get a M-14.



Reiterate:

M14 = 7.62x51mm
M16 = 5.56x45mm
AK-47 = 7.62x39mm
AK-74 = 5.45x39mm

M14 = Cannon.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Reiterate:
> 
> M14 = 7.62x51mm
> M16 = 5.56x45mm
> ...



okay, it was Shino before the edit so,and M-14 beats all of those.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Yeah the whole (x)mm thing gets confusing sometimes.

.308 is so sexy but better yet is the .30-06
The Army's guns back in the day used to be .30-06 and .45 AkA Man rounds. whats the world coming to with this 5.56 and 9mm BS


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Yeah the whole (x)mm thing gets confusing sometimes.
> 
> .308 is so sexy but better yet is the .30-06
> The Army's guns back in the day used to be .30-06 and .45 AkA Man rounds. whats the world coming to with this 5.56 and 9mm BS



i know, i miss those guns, stopping power and just good fucking guns. got a AK 7.62 and M-16 5.56 in my little collection, BIG difference, also what dose a green painted tip mean?


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

The green tip is just the Army's way of saying that's a standard 5.56mm ball ammunition. Its what we use on an everyday basis. Red/orange tips are tracers. I have one entire 30 round magazine of tracers I use for warning shots/catching terrorist robes on fire if im lucky enough.


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> The green tip is just the Army's way of saying that's a standard 5.56mm ball ammunition. Its what we use on an everyday basis. Red/orange tips are tracers. I have one entire 30 round magazine of tracers I use for warning shots/catching terrorist robes on fire if im lucky enough.



HAHAHAHA, OH GOD I WANT TO DO THAT NOW, aim for a bit below the crotch though, give em a scare.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Hahaha yeah, um we've had a few *Ahem* incidents with pen flares, ballsy cars, and raging infernos but I wont go too in depth on that story XD


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Hahaha yeah, um we've had a few *Ahem* incidents with pen flares, ballsy cars, and raging infernos but I wont go too in depth on that story XD



oh man, if the Col. agrees, i hope he dose, on graduation from HS, we are going to be about 5 minutes late when its silent, come in marching with our rifles in camo, but all screwed up not buttoned and sleep in em, some wont wear the jackets, pull a Stripes and yell RAZZEL DAZZEL.


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## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

Well, the whole idea behind the 5.56mm round was so that it could be used for automatic fire while maintaining control (though Vietnam kinda screwed that one up), since firing the 7.62mm rounds from a rifle on auto was a nightmare and utterly futile (the AK-47 compensates for this with decreased rate of fire). Now, they're coming up with a new 6.8mm round that supposedly has the stopping power of the 7.62mm round and the accuracy and penetration of the 5.56mm round, while being controllable in automatic fire.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Lmao! That would be hilarious. But dont think its such a good idea XD Never was in Rotc but take pride in that moment.

One of the proudest moments in my life was standing on that stage after 16 weeks of OSUT in front of my whole family with the Army strong song playing. Got an army achievement medal pinned on me too at the graduation ceremony. Take pride in what youve done and display professionalism.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Well, the whole idea behind the 5.56mm round was so that it could be used for automatic fire while maintaining control (though Vietnam kinda screwed that one up), since firing the 7.62mm rounds from a rifle on auto was a nightmare and utterly futile (the AK-47 compensates for this with decreased rate of fire). Now, they're coming up with a new 6.8mm round that supposedly has the stopping power of the 7.62mm round and the accuracy and penetration of the 5.56mm round, while being controllable in automatic fire.


  Yeah thats true, but the M16 isnt even automatic :/ and the SAW is a piece of crap. I <3 the 7.62 M240, our mrap didnt have a pintle mount for the mg for the longest time and I just sat up in the turret holding the thing rofl. (We modded ours pretty tight too, took the buttstock off and put the coax butt plate on it so it was really short and easy to handle


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Lmao! That would be hilarious. But dont think its such a good idea XD Never was in Rotc but take pride in that moment.
> 
> One of the proudest moments in my life was standing on that stage after 16 weeks of OSUT in front of my whole family with the Army strong song playing. Got an army achievement medal pinned on me too at the graduation ceremony. Take pride in what youve done and display professionalism.



we may get a whole place laughing, so i think they may let it slide, if we do REAL good, i would take as much pride as possible, i want to go to a family reunion in camo, or even my green dress uniform, but my mom said its not the place for it. ill get a vid if we do it though and post here.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Haha reminds me of the night before graduation and we got to eat dinner with our families. Our drill sergeants smoked the living shit out of us for an hour in full Class As in front of our parents who thought it was just the funniest thing to see us doing front back gos XD


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Haha reminds me of the night before graduation and we got to eat dinner with our families. Our drill sergeants smoked the living shit out of us for an hour in full Class As in front of our parents who thought it was just the funniest thing to see us doing front back gos XD



man my brother said that he got yelled at once for having his elbows on the table, only once, and when he saw we brought Pringles with us, its made m feel good inside, until he geve me the empty containter that was unopened.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Hahaha there were people in basic buying those little two piece fig newton packs for 20 bucks XD. You get HUNGRY in basic, I was eating ranch dressing packets so I didnt get stomach cramps rofl


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Hahaha there were people in basic buying those little two piece fig newton packs for 20 bucks XD. You get HUNGRY in basic, I was eating ranch dressing packets so I didnt get stomach cramps rofl



im not even in the military yet, and im eating sweet and sour packs from McD's due to lack of food, its so bad its funny.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> im not even in the military yet, and *im eating* *sweet and sour packs from McD's due to lack of food*, its so bad its funny.



That's the warrior spirit within you awakening!


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Thats the warrior spirit!



the thing is, they taste delicious.


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## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Did you get to fire rifles during rotc?


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## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Did you get to fire rifles during rotc?



not yet, this will be my firt year due to school transfer.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Im surprised they dont have you working with M16s


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Im surprised they dont have you working with M16s



keep in mind this is hs Marines jrotc, they not going to splurege and probably get surplus rifles from the U.S.M.C., man i hope we get a tank, like a Sherman M-4, or a Patton, mainly im hopeful because they are closing the Patton Museum, so maybe we can get one.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

They are closing it!?! 

And what do you mean by get a tank?


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> They are closing it!?!
> 
> And what do you mean by get a tank?



yeah i dont even know why got to stop in before they close it though, ran all the tanks recently for a last time. i mean a big truck drops off a large armored tank, probably with an inactive gun though.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Ah gotcha, that would be an experience. Ive never seen the insides of a patton or a sherman. Ive seen the insides of an M1A1 for like 10 seconds. Went through basic on the M1A2 SEP and now were deployed with the M1A2 SEP V2 with TUSK upgrades. (Mouthful aint it lol)


----------



## Switch44 (Aug 9, 2009)

I prefer my BOOM STICK! Its a 12 Gauge double barrel Remington S-marts top of the line, shop smart, shop S-MART!

.... Please pardon the lame movie reference, it just sort of worked.... But im all for the real thing


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Hahaha Cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger...


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Ah gotcha, that would be an experience. Ive never seen the insides of a patton or a sherman. Ive seen the insides of an M1A1 for like 10 seconds. Went through basic on the M1A2 SEP and now were deployed with the M1A2 SEP V2 with TUSK upgrades. (Mouthful aint it lol)



well, got have some space, in WWII they had 3 guys sleepin in the turret, and th drivers where the sat. heated food with the exauhst pipe. but the more current Patton would be better for more modern equipment, even though it was a 50's design, hey maybe the will give us that rusty M1A1 out front. they got an extra inside i think, but if we get one, which we probably wont, it will be a Patton or Sherman. but have you ever visted the Patton Museum?


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

I can drvie the shit out of an Abrams M1A2 but I got in the driver seat and saw all these switched instead of buttons and computers and it took me a while to find the on switch rofl.

Yeah I saw the museum when I graduated with my parents. They got a badass tiger tank in there.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> I can drvie the shit out of an Abrams M1A2 but I got in the driver seat and saw all these switched instead of buttons and computers and it took me a while to find the on switch rofl.
> 
> Yeah I saw the museum when I graduated with my parents. They got a badass tiger tank in there.



oh yeah, King Tiger baby, i loved seeing Pattons Jeep, Caddy, and SAA. damn good General, damn good. they say his stuff may go to his family, or the Frazier museum downtown, sorry i live in Lousiville north of the base. im still hopeful though, always wanted to command one, or at least ride in it as a loader, seems easier than anything in the tank.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Haha yeah I loves seeing his SAA, I think im gonna buy one after my deployment is over. As for being a loader, its relatively easy but its also the most dangerous position in the tank. The loader loads the tank shells (Obviously), loads and maintains the radios, pulls security outside the hatch on an M240. Hes also the GOB (Get out bitch) that dismounts the tank to move stuff out of the way or whatever else needs to be done.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Haha yeah I loves seeing his SAA, I think im gonna buy one after my deployment is over. As for being a loader, its relatively easy but its also the most dangerous position in the tank. The loader loads the tank shells (Obviously), loads and maintains the radios, pulls security outside the hatch on an M240. Hes also the GOB (Get out bitch) that dismounts the tank to move stuff out of the way or whatever else needs to be done.



fffffffff, damnit, i dont like getting out of my heavily armored womb, its safe, and has an anti-what ever the fuck is in my way gun, man i wanna get a SAA if i command one, old WWII style.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Yeah haha I hate getting out of the tank too but in this war we hardly use the thing anymore. All tankers are infantrymen now, we might use the tank a few times a month as a show of force but we cant accomplish the current mission at hand right now with them. Tanks are only good for one thing and that's complete annihilation lol. Were trying to be their friends now.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Yeah haha I hate getting out of the tank too but in this war we hardly use the thing anymore. All tankers are infantrymen now, we might use the tank a few times a month as a show of force but we cant accomplish the current mission at hand right now with them. Tanks are only good for one thing and that's complete annihilation lol. Were trying to be their friends now.



well, hows that going, and WHAT ABOUT THE .38 EARLIER?


----------



## Shotgunjim (Aug 9, 2009)

_"AK-47, the very best there is. For when you absolutely, positively gotta kill every muthaf***a in the room, accept no substitutes!"_

Yep, I prefer a nice Kalashnikov. My preferred handgun would probably have to be an M1911.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Shotgunjim said:


> _"AK-47, the very best there is. For when you absolutely, positively gotta kill every muthaf***a in the room, accept no substitutes!"_
> 
> Yep, I prefer a nice Kalashnikov. My preferred handgun would probably have to be an M1911.



ye be thinkin bout the 25mm Vulcan Cannon, that kills the room too.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Its going alright I guess, definitely a lot scarier. We've been kicking in doors, capturing insurgents, found a few large weapons caches, bomb makers and getting on the news.

The .38 was confiscated from an insurgents house by Iraqi soldiers and the gave it to us.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Its going alright I guess, definitely a lot scarier. We've been kicking in doors, capturing insurgents, found a few large weapons caches, bomb makers and getting on the news.
> 
> The .38 was confiscated from an insurgents house by Iraqi soldiers and the gave it to us.



just one, or a cache of em'?


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

The .38 was just his personal weapon. I think Id start laughing if I found a giant pile of old revolvers XD.

Naw mainly bomb material caches, fertilizer bags of explosive powder, ski masks, ak-47s, copper wire, EFPs, ball bearings, cell phones, pipes, grenade shells, nails, bolts, fake license plates. We found a huge mess of the stuff in a spider hole beneath a tile in a  courtyard.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> The .38 was just his personal weapon. I think Id start laughing if I found a giant pile of old revolvers XD.
> 
> Naw mainly bomb material caches, fertilizer bags of explosive powder, ski masks, ak-47s, copper wire, EFPs, ball bearings, cell phones, pipes, grenade shells, nails, bolts, fake license plates. We found a huge mess of the stuff in a spider hole beneath a tile in a  courtyard.



man, imagine if you kick a door in and find a .500 S&W mint condition enshried loaded and waiting, no traps, no one.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Hahaha well uhm, that one might accidentally get left off the books. Its always been my fantasy to be a loader in a tank wielding an M500. Have an insurgent jump on my turret. (Insert Airforce One quote) "Get off my tank..." and then blow him off with .50 caliber justice.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Hahaha well uhm, that one might accidentally get left off the books. Its always been my fantasy to be a loader in a tank wielding an M500. Have an insurgent jump on my turret. (Insert Airforce One quote) "Get off my tank..." and then blow him off with .50 caliber justice.



oh yeah, same with an SAA in WWII. ah, man, what time is it over there?


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

It is 10:33 AM August the 9th

11 days till I go on leave!


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> It is 10:33 AM August the 9th
> 
> 11 days till I go on leave!



damn its 3:35 AM here, August 9th, i think. im so tired, 4 days till school and first day of JROTC, and found a '59 Galaxie for $3799. im not sure what i should get for reenacting, a MG-42 or a MP-40 (reenacting for Nazi Germany, for better fitting uniforms and cheaper than the U.S. stuff)


----------



## xSkunkyx (Aug 9, 2009)

Of the choices, I perfer firearms, just cause i've shot them before.  I've fired shotguns, handguns, revolvers, bolt-action rifles, hunting rifles, and a AK-47.  x3  Awesome gun to fire by the way....


----------



## Roose Hurro (Aug 9, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> As far as I know, there are 5 types of guns.
> 
> Airsoft, BB, Air, CO2, and of course regular firearms.
> 
> ...



A bit of education:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns

http://www.air-rifle.net/basictypes/basictypes.html




Darkwing said:


> Oh yes, those are badass, *too bad they don't have a name for it, though* : /



They're called "gunblades":

http://realgunblades.blogspot.com/




NewfDraggie said:


> You can shoot friends with it, you can simulate scenarios, there's no harm involved ('cept for the morons, and they could choke on food just as easily) and *airsoft guns can't be used by criminals*. :O



Newf, here you go again... please, before you make claims like this, do your homework:

http://www.airsoftpacific.com/viewtopic.php?t=5465

http://www.popularairsoft.com/crime-involving-airsoft-replicas-rise-delaware

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1465185/posts

There, about five minutes work (inbetween mouthfulls of ramen)...




Ahkmill said:


> I love guns. My pastor and I were out shooting, and he brings out this Russian SKS and a friggin' M1 Garand. I nearly had a seizure.
> 
> P.S. *The M1 Garand has a MEAN kick. Ow.*



Yep, but not as mean as a K98 Mauser in 8mm x 57... (one shot left a pretty good bruise on my right clavicle).




Darkwing said:


> Unless they painted/modded it to look like a real one.
> 
> *But who would be moronic enough to do that?*



See my reply to Newf, above...




NewfDraggie said:


> I see you like the Beretta M9 (m92fs) but also like the Glock 18(c) because it can go automatic. Let me introduce you to the *Baretta M93r*, ignore the stock because it's much cooler to dual these bad-boys like a true Operator.



Nice choice, Newf...




NewfDraggie said:


> Yay! There's also the fully automatic *Mauser M712*, which is basically a fully automatic C96 Mauser with a detachable box magazine, instead of a top loading clip for an internal magazine.



Another good choice, though I doubt you'd enjoy taking that puppy apart to clean it (long time ago, I watched two guys in a gunstore disassemble a standard C96... they couldn't get it back together).  Oh, good choice on the SCAR, as well...




Runefox said:


> Well, the whole idea behind the 5.56mm round was so that it could be used for automatic fire while maintaining control (though Vietnam kinda screwed that one up), since firing the 7.62mm rounds from a rifle on auto was a nightmare and utterly futile (the AK-47 compensates for this with decreased rate of fire). Now, they're coming up with a new 6.8mm round that supposedly has the stopping power of the 7.62mm round and the accuracy and penetration of the 5.56mm round, while being controllable in automatic fire.



You missed one of the big reasons for the change... smaller round means more ammo carried for the same amount of weight.




Krevan said:


> Haha yeah *I loves seeing his SAA, I think im gonna buy one after my deployment is over*. As for being a loader, its relatively easy but its also the most dangerous position in the tank. The loader loads the tank shells (Obviously), loads and maintains the radios, pulls security outside the hatch on an M240. Hes also the GOB (Get out bitch) that dismounts the tank to move stuff out of the way or whatever else needs to be done.



http://www.usfirearms.com/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of my faves (actually, two of them):

http://www.antiqueguns.biz/guns/merwin.htm


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Uh I meant actually killing somebody with it. Nobody can kill somebody with an airsoft weapon, if people are robbed by airsoft weapons their life was never in any real danger and robbery doesn't matter so much as murder.

Though if you find somebody killed by an airsoft weapon I'll simply laugh, I bet they deserved it. I wouldn't doubt some moron has managed to do it somewhere.


----------



## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Aug 9, 2009)

Fan of the real thing. I've been thinking of going to a range as of recently too.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Uh I meant actually killing somebody with it. Nobody can kill somebody with an airsoft weapon, if people are robbed by airsoft weapons their life was never in any real danger and robbery doesn't matter so much as murder.
> 
> Though if you find somebody killed by an airsoft weapon I'll simply laugh, I bet they deserved it. I wouldn't doubt some moron has managed to do it somewhere.



reminds me of Venture Bros. when Doc got shot by hatred with a rubber bullet, and it was like a real on to him so they can only use Nerf now.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Uh I meant actually killing somebody with it. Nobody can kill somebody with an airsoft weapon, if people are robbed by airsoft weapons their life was never in any real danger *and robbery doesn't matter so much as murder*.
> 
> Though if you find somebody killed by an airsoft weapon I'll simply laugh, I bet they deserved it. I wouldn't doubt some moron has managed to do it somewhere.



All crimes matter equally, far as I'm concerned... both the robber and the murderer are taking something from me I don't want to lose.  And if you meant "killing", then you should have said so.  And what's this about their lives not being in danger?  Fake gun or no, the fact they're being robbed at gunpoint is all that matters.  The victim has no idea the gun is fake, so it might as well be real.  Oh, and just for the record, an airsoft weapon can kill, if you use it right.  I'd demo for you, but we have this problem of living in different countries, and I don't think I'd be able to find anyone willing to volunteer... willing to "give their life" for science.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

You do know that it's illegal for an airsoft weapon to be above a certain projectile FPS rate, even in the eye a legal airsoft rifle won't kill you. It's impossible unless you stab them with the rifle or force it down their throat, then it's not the rifle seeing as a knife could have been used to stab much easier than an airsoft rifle.

And your opinion about crime isn't being questioned here, it's the rest of the worlds and they look at theft and murder on such a different scale one has a few months in jail, or a simple slap on the wrist while the other has life, 25 years, or death.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> You do know that it's illegal for an airsoft weapon to be above a certain projectile FPS rate, even in the eye a legal airsoft rifle won't kill you. It's impossible unless you stab them with the rifle or force it down their throat, then it's not the rifle seeing as a knife could have been used to stab much easier than an airsoft rifle.
> 
> And your opinion about crime isn't being questioned here, it's the rest of the worlds and they look at theft and murder on such a different scale one has a few months in jail, or a simple slap on the wrist *while the other has life, 25 years, or death*.



Unless you happen to be a Kennedy...


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Hahahaha! xD! Nice one, I would have accepted Rockefeller too.


----------



## Irreverent (Aug 9, 2009)

Tycho said:


> I like the ones that work when I point them at something and pull the trigger.



A "click" when you _need_ a "bang" can ruin your whole day.  

But at the end of it all, regardless of make, model or calibre, only accurate guns are interesting.*  If it can't shoot MOA to 1,000m, its just a toy to me.

* with apologies to Townsend Whelen


----------



## SpetsnazFox (Aug 9, 2009)

I'd love to try a real firearm but it's illegal here
Well at least I own a 30 year old air rifle


----------



## Kivaari (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> You do know that it's illegal for an airsoft weapon to be above a certain projectile FPS rate, even in the eye a legal airsoft rifle won't kill you. It's impossible unless you stab them with the rifle or force it down their throat, then it's not the rifle seeing as a knife could have been used to stab much easier than an airsoft rifle.


FPS limits vary by country. There aren't any in the US, but most games limit you to 400 FPS with .2g BBs, or 550 FPS with .2g if you are a sniper.

I have heard of one case where someone shot an old lady with a modified airsoft gun and killed her. I can't remember where she was shot.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

> You missed one of the big reasons for the change... smaller round means more ammo carried for the same amount of weight.


Yeh, I was tired. 



Roose Hurro said:


> I'd demo for you, but we have this *problem of living in different countries*, and I don't think I'd be able to find anyone willing to volunteer... willing to "give their life" for science.



... So basically, your only problem with killing someone is the fact that they're not in the country?

OK. You know what? No. You shouldn't be allowed to play with guns or sharp objects.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Sponge Cat said:


> FPS limits vary by country. There aren't any in the US, but most games limit you to 400 FPS with .2g BBs, or 550 FPS with .2g if you are a sniper.
> 
> I have heard of one case where someone shot an old lady with a modified airsoft gun and killed her. I can't remember where she was shot.


 450FPS wouldn't kill anybody with .2g airsoft rounds.


----------



## Wreth (Aug 9, 2009)

Water guns are best.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> 450FPS wouldn't kill anybody with .2g airsoft rounds.



Well, we're talking a little old lady. It could cause a good deal of _internal_ bleeding, especially if she was shot in the head and that caused a haemorrhage (thanks, spell check!).


----------



## Krevan (Aug 9, 2009)

Airsoft guns couldnt kill somebody unless you beat the crap out of somebody with a metal one lol. I take that back, you could kill them if you shoot thousands of rounds down their throat and have them choke on the small plastic bbs.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

Plastic BB's? I've only ever seen heavy brass ones here. >=D They come in this nice milk carton.


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 9, 2009)

Krevan said:


> you could kill them if you shoot thousands of rounds down their throat and have them choke on the small plastic bbs.



*Cringes*

Wow, Iraq really fucks you up, doesn't it 



Runefox said:


> Well, we're talking a little old lady. It could cause a good deal of _internal_ bleeding, especially if she was shot in the head and that caused a haemorrhage (thanks, spell check!).



This could be true, but:

1. Who could stoop so low to kill an old lady, with an airsoft!

2. It would take a few thousand rounds just to kill an old lady.

3. I did a few Google searches, and found no cases of Airsoft related deaths.



NewfDraggie said:


> 450FPS wouldn't kill anybody with .2g airsoft rounds.



I agree.


----------



## Jiyiki (Aug 9, 2009)

I hate guns XD


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 9, 2009)

Jiyiki said:


> I hate guns XD



That's okay, everyone has their interests.

Off-topic: Your avatar is so true, it proves a very good point about the forums xD


----------



## Jiyiki (Aug 9, 2009)

Haha thanks.


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 9, 2009)

Jiyiki said:


> Haha thanks.



No problem, I just had to point that out because it was so true xD


----------



## Pawlover (Aug 9, 2009)

I like my old single action revolvers for target plinking.


----------



## Wreth (Aug 9, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> No problem, I just had to point that out because it was so true xD



His avatar is a quote, a quote of me.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Hahahaha! xD! Nice one, *I would have accepted Rockefeller too*.



So would I, but the Kennedy's came first to mind...




Runefox said:


> Yeh, I was tired.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess the sarcasm went over your head...




Runefox said:


> Plastic BB's? I've only ever seen heavy brass ones here. >=D They come in this nice milk carton.



Those are regular, plated steel BBs...


----------



## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

Roose Hurro said:


> I guess the sarcasm went over your head...


I was just poking fun, geez. 



> Those are regular, plated steel BBs...



They still hurt and they're not plastic.


----------



## Kivaari (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> 450FPS wouldn't kill anybody with .2g airsoft rounds.


I agree, although those are just limits if you want to use a gun in a game. 

I looked it up, and this was all I could find on it.

*Digicon:* Digicon was a controversial airsoft company. They only produced one BV gun, the MP5A5. Later, they produced a line of pistols including the superlative Digicon Target, a version of the famous Thompson Center target pistol. Their guns are affiliated with the only known airsoft-related fatality, the death of an elderly woman in Japan. These guns could be modified to take unregulated CO2, allowing them to fire at extremely high power, well over the .98 Joule limit in Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_airsoft#Classic_airsoft_manufacturers


Only recorded kill by "airsoft" was a heavily modified Digicon Target Hunter, 20in with the safeties pulled out, completely re-machined, and rerouted to straight 800psi CO2. The assailant was using 6mm steel ball bearings weighing over a gram. During the attempted robbery, the victim (an 82 year old woman) was shot in the temple, the bb had fragmented her skull; which lead to her eventual death. The guy is currently rotting in prison.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=100532&page=4

Doing what's mentioned above, I could see it being possible to kill someone. Although I don't really think I'd still call that an airsoft gun.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Sponge Cat said:


> I agree, although those are just limits if you want to use a gun in a game.
> 
> I looked it up, and this was all I could find on it.
> 
> ...


Uh...no...airsoft -has- to be plastic BB's, not steel. So no. That's an air rifle.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

*begins singing* my M-14, my M-14, i cant wait to see, my M-14.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Uh...no...airsoft -has- to be plastic BB's, not steel. So no. *That's an air rifle.*



No, it's a modified airsoft gun... airsoft guns are already air guns, they are just made to shoot 6mm plastic rather than 4.5mm steel BBs.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Aug 9, 2009)

Hmmm.  The only firearm I would want is the M1 Garand.  >.-.>


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Hmmm.  The only firearm I would want is the M1 Garand.  >.-.>



M-14 is like the Garand, with a cilp.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Aug 9, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> M-14 is like the Garand, with a cilp.



I still prefer the M1, myself...


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Roose Hurro said:


> No, it's a modified airsoft gun... airsoft guns are already air guns, they are just made to shoot 6mm plastic rather than 4.5mm steel BBs.



Airsoft guns are still airsoft by definition because of their ammunition. If they are using airsoft ammo it's airsoft, if they're using air rifle ammo they're air rifles.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> M-14 is like the Garand, with a cilp.


M1 Garands do use clips, M14's use detachable box magazines. :3
Also the M21 is like a modified M14 designed for sniping, much better than the M14 DMR.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> M1 Garands do use clips, M14's use detachable box magazines. :3
> Also the M21 is like a modified M14 designed for sniping, much better than the M14 DMR.



sorry, i know, what i said was 'the M-14 is like a Garand, with a clip', as in with the exeption of a clip (box magazine), they are quite alike, and im no sniper, ill stop and take a moment to aim properly and make a damn good shot, but not stay and snipe, im run and gun, with a powerful rifle.


----------



## I am a communist (Aug 9, 2009)

When I first saw this thread I figured it would be about actually firearms, not airsoft and bb guns -_-


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

I am a communist said:


> When I first saw this thread I figured it would be about actually firearms, not airsoft and bb guns -_-


Then you read this thread and you realized your first assumptions were mostly correct...right?


----------



## Irreverent (Aug 9, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Hmmm.  The only firearm I would want is the M1 Garand.  >.-.>



Google "M1 Thumb", then go buy a SA M1A. 



NewfDraggie said:


> M1 Garands do use clips, M14's use detachable box magazines.



You're both right.  The M1 uses "chargers" (*ahem*) and the M14 (using iron sights) has a slot for a 5 round charger on the site-bridge that can be used to top up the box-magazine in the field.  The M14 charger slot is removed when an optical site is mounted.


----------



## Shotgunjim (Aug 9, 2009)

_"Catching terrorists' robes on fire"_

AAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hooah my black vulpine friend!


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Shotgunjim said:


> _"Catching terrorists' robes on fire"_
> 
> AAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Hooah my black vulpine friend!



I find it funny too because terrorist is something that allows US troops to kill who-ever they want without blame. xD!


----------



## Shotgunjim (Aug 9, 2009)

Damn! 25mm? That would be OVERKILL right there!


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> You're both right.  The M1 uses "chargers" (*ahem*) and the M14 (using iron sights) has a slot for a 5 round charger on the site-bridge that can be used to top up the box-magazine in the field.  The M14 charger slot is removed when an optical site is mounted.


Mmm nope, M1 uses clips...not mags.


----------



## Shotgunjim (Aug 9, 2009)

Don't be hatin'. Though I would tend to agree that the word "terrorist" is tossed around pretty loosely these days.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

Shotgunjim said:


> Damn! 25mm? That would be OVERKILL right there!



I don't know what you're referring to, but many anti-aircraft guns are 25mm.

Also, eat BRG-15.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Shotgunjim said:


> Don't be hatin'. Though I would tend to agree that the word "terrorist" is tossed around pretty loosely these days.



Oh I hate the US military, they are actually the new nazi's and are openly labeled that by many people. Granted they're more subtle and not committing mass genocide, but they're attacking anything they want. Granted this isn't the soldiers fault, but they don't have to follow the orders. They want to, most of the time. So many videos I seen of US troops shooting innocents, killing dogs and cats and laughing about it, setting up weapons so that if a civilian comes near it they shoot them, engaging civilian cars, throwing grenades at passing kids that are live (killing them all). They carry AK's that they can ditch on anybody they kill that is unarmed, ordered from majors and high ranks to do so. Sorry, but the only good thing the US army is doing right now is putting morons overseas to be hit by mortar rounds. Granted a lot of brave honorable people are killed along with them and that makes me sad, to see a life wasted through lies and deceit.


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## Runefox (Aug 9, 2009)

> Granted this isn't the soldiers fault, but they don't have to follow the orders



Actually, isn't insubordination still something that you can be shot for in the US Army?


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## Duality Jack (Aug 9, 2009)

I actually own a Colt ,45  I love the dam thing the kick is vicious though


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## lilEmber (Aug 9, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Actually, isn't insubordination still something that you can be shot for in the US Army?


Well...yes and no, it depends on the level and what they're disobeying.
Also, it is their fault for signing up in the first place, but at the same time it isn't because they're being lead to believe its honorable and for the better good, when it really isn't...just like vietnam and the first gulf war... (operation crush anybody?)


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## Darkwing (Aug 9, 2009)

Zoopedia said:


> His avatar is a quote, a quote of me.



You are God.



Sponge Cat said:


> Only recorded kill by "airsoft" was a heavily modified Digicon Target Hunter, 20in with the safeties pulled out, completely re-machined, and rerouted to straight 800psi CO2. The assailant was using 6mm steel ball bearings weighing over a gram. During the attempted robbery, the victim (an 82 year old woman) was shot in the temple, the bb had fragmented her skull; which lead to her eventual death. The guy is currently rotting in prison.
> http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=100532&page=4



Okay, but I really don't count it as an airsoft related death considering that:

1. The Airsoft was very heavily modified, if the airsoft wasn't modified I would count it as an airsoft related death. Like Newf said, I would consider it more like an Air rifle.

2. The Guy was using 6mm steel balls weighing over a gram, as far as I know, Airsofts don't use those.

3. He shot an Old Woman, Old Women's bones are usually very weak, so it doesn't take much to break the mentioned bone.

4. It is Good to hear the guy is rotting in prison.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 9, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Well...yes and no, it depends on the level and what they're disobeying.
> Also, it is their fault for signing up in the first place, but at the same time it isn't because they're being lead to believe its honorable and for the better good, when it really isn't...just like vietnam and the first gulf war... (operation crush anybody?)


Usally if you are manic or in a breakdown, If detainment is not possible *BLAM* and in situations where discipline is Imposable for extreme actions that endanger many *BLAM*


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 9, 2009)

You forgot blowguns, OP.

...I'm quite partial to revolvers, myself.


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## Shotgunjim (Aug 10, 2009)

Don't generalize just because of the actions of a few retards. I know what videos you're talking about, and I don't think those guys even deserve to be called members of the U.S. military. That is conduct unbecoming at rock bottom. 

You might also want to keep in mind that war has a tendency to make people do the most horrible things. After seeing your friends get blown to bits after enough times, it starts to fuck with your mind and you go crazy. But since I'm guessing that you've never seen combat, I don't think you could really understand. Nazis my ass, you're just lumping everyone into your little basket of unfounded hate for the many because of the actions of the few. You have a very closed mind.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> You forgot blowguns, OP.
> 
> ...I'm quite partial to revolvers, myself.


I would post a pic of my Colt 45 but I have it locked in the firing range (stupid gun laws)


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Shotgunjim said:


> Don't generalize just because of the actions of a few retards. I know what videos you're talking about, and I don't think those guys even deserve to be called members of the U.S. military. That is conduct unbecoming at rock bottom.
> 
> You might also want to keep in mind that war has a tendency to make people do the most horrible things. After seeing your friends get blown to bits after enough times, it starts to fuck with your mind and you go crazy. But since I'm guessing that you've never seen combat, I don't think you could really understand. Nazis my ass, you're just lumping everyone into your little basket of unfounded hate for the many because of the actions of the few. You have a very closed mind.



I've seen -many- videos. It's not a few, not a few at all.
Hundreds of MARINES do this, are goofing off, are dumber than dirt. At least dirt has the intelligence to lay there and do nothing.

War is no excuse, seeing as the war was started without just-cause or reason and rules of engagement are "shoot anybody with a weapon that isn't allied", if they simply have a weapon or were touching one it's alright to kill them. How the fuck is that "war has a tendency to make people do the most horrible things" when it's fucking basic orders?

Nazi's didn't lose the war, they simply had to move. It's the people in control of the military doing this. They've lowered their standards on who's allowed to join the military, last I heard you needed only a grade 11 now.

Again I mention Operation Crush, a term used for a combat maneuver in the gulf war and I've heard of it being used in The Iraq War too. They don't waste their ammo on people, instead they line them up and run them over with tanks. Slowly.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I've seen -many- videos. It's not a few, not a few at all.



Care to show us a few links to said videos?

I just want to take a look at this myself.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> Care to show us a few links to said videos?
> 
> I just want to take a look at this myself.


War fucks you up Period and people do sick shit because of it


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I've seen -many- videos. It's not a few, not a few at all.
> Hundreds of MARINES do this, are goofing off, are dumber than dirt. At least dirt has the intelligence to lay there and do nothing.
> 
> War is no excuse, seeing as the war was started without just-cause or reason and rules of engagement are "shoot anybody with a weapon that isn't allied", if they simply have a weapon or were touching one it's alright to kill them. How the fuck is that "war has a tendency to make people do the most horrible things" when it's fucking basic orders?
> ...



Im a soldier, Ive been in Iraq for nine months now. I have been ordered to exterminate dogs that were not a problem. I didn't do it. Anybody who does do stupid shit like that gets themselves an Article 15 now a days. There is an ex tank commander I loathed due to various reason but justice is finally coming to him too. Hes guilty of numerous things and the latest is firing rounds at children (Not directly but too close) because they "Annoyed him" hes on his way to jail right now.

Its not okay to kill anybody that has a rifle, ROE is STRICTLY enforced. Shout, show, shove, shoot to warn, shoot to kill. That is American ROE and it is enforced. There are civilians walking around with AK-47s now (Scary as shit) but we do not engage unless they display hostile action or hostile intent.

Dont judge American Soldiers based on what you see in a few videos. Theres idiots everywhere its just these ones are given guns and tanks however their actions are not lawful nor supported by the military and they are dealt with regardless of rank.

And yes I got a little fucked up from things Ive seen over here but I'm still the same old me with my humanity intact.


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## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> War fucks you up Period and people do sick shit because of it



Stacking people in piles naked and bound and posing for the camera certainly isn't "because war fucked them up".

EDIT:



> Dont judge American Soldiers based on what you see in a few videos.



See, there are plenty of people in the US Army who are actually decent people (I'd like to believe they vastly outnumber the assholes), but it's the fact that these nutjobs exist within the military to begin with that gives it and everyone in it a bad name. Soldiers who fuck off and toss puppies into canyons and doing random shit should be discharged _immediately_. If you're not mature enough to handle yourself in a freaking warzone, then go the fuck home and don't come back. The fact that stupid stuff is happening seems to scream to me that there's severe disciplinary issues in the military - And it's good to hear that it's being cracked down on.

EDIT 2:

However, the "security contractors" are my biggest worry. Blackwater (Xe) is a _mercenary organization_ operating outside of the ROE, doing incredibly stupid shit like detaining US soldiers for a collision with a Blackwater vehicle, firing without provocation, blatantly ignoring orders from US military officers and carrying a "holier than thou" attitude towards the military.

In my opinion, Blackwater should be annihilated. Such a thing should not exist, much less get work from the US government. These guys are thugs discharged from the military, and generally profiteers who will sell their "services" to whoever pays them.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Im a soldier, Ive been in Iraq for nine months now. I have been ordered to exterminate dogs that were not a problem. I didn't do it. Anybody who does do stupid shit like that gets themselves an Article 15 now a days. There is an ex tank commander I loathed due to various reason but justice is finally coming to him too. Hes guilty of numerous things and the latest is firing rounds at children (Not directly but too close) because they "Annoyed him" hes on his way to jail right now.
> 
> Its not okay to kill anybody that has a rifle, ROE is STRICTLY enforced. Shout, show, shove, shoot to warn, shoot to kill. That is American ROE and it is enforced. There are civilians walking around with AK-47s now (Scary as shit) but we do not engage unless they display hostile action or hostile intent.
> 
> ...


I was a marksman, now i work federal security, the kind of training that teaches you to watch and kill whatever you are told to, it gets you home it twists you and once you se servace and fire that rifle on someone (I did ) You are never the same


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Anybody who does do stupid shit like that gets themselves an Article 15 now a days.



Yeah, it is really good to hear that your rules are being more strictly enforced and all, but what makes me wonder is how all of these stupid fucks are getting into the army in the first place.

I mean seriously, we already have a bad reputation, this just makes it worse


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> EDIT 2:
> 
> However, the "security contractors" are my biggest worry. Blackwater (Xe) is a _mercenary organization_ operating outside of the ROE, doing incredibly stupid shit like detaining US soldiers for a collision with a Blackwater vehicle, firing without provocation, blatantly ignoring orders from US military officers and carrying a "holier than thou" attitude towards the military.
> 
> In my opinion, Blackwater should be annihilated. Such a thing should not exist, much less get work from the US government. These guys are thugs discharged from the military, and generally profiteers who will sell their "services" to whoever pays them.



Yeah I dont like the mercs either. But Blackwater has been railed a lot lately and seeing justice for wrongdoings. Ive only seen a few mercs out here but they didnt really roll out the wire. I guess just base security

However, speaking of ROE violations. We used to work with a Navy SEAL  squad. Those guys were OUT OF CONTROL. God forbid someone called your cellphone when they were around, youd hit the ground before the second ring. They were guilty of numerous crimes and they were dealt with. Trying to operate outside of ROE because they were special forces only landed them in heaps of trouble.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> Care to show us a few links to said videos?
> 
> I just want to take a look at this myself.


Just look at this one (kinda gory, FLIR though so it's just thermal), listen to him. He forgets how to actually use the weapon and fires before it's ready. He's asked "do they have weapons in their hands?" and he says "yes" then HQ gives the order to fire, even though that's a lie. They -had- weapons, and that's only a possibility...though it does look like it was a weapon it doesn't mean it was used...who throws away the weapons they're going to use?

Another
This was a video, but look at what the site says about the removed video and you can gather what it was about.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

Soldiers blow up dog, find it funny
soldiers blow up another dog, find it funny
Soldiers shoot another dog
Soldier shoots yet another dog
blowing up a kitten and cheering

Splashing kids with a hummer
Teasing kids with water
Shooting unarmed civilians then celebrating
Soldier messing up civilians house for fun
Soldier being a dick to Iraqi police
Having kids chant "I love pork!"
Soldier throwing a child off of a bridge

US Marine sniper is charged with two cases of voluntary manslaughter
Blackwater shooting civ's, granted this isn't US but they were hired
What Happens in Syria Stays in Syria, US killing civs
More blackwater crap
UN speaks about US and blackwater killing civs
More blackwater, not really a point to posting this

Lets also not forget the puppy off a cliff thing, granted animals aren't as bad as other things, but I have a lot more showing soldiers laughing and calling in airstrikes on homes for no reason.

I can see some of these being removed by mods, my apologies if it breaks any rules.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Yeah I dont like the mercs either. But Blackwater has been railed a lot lately and seeing justice for wrongdoings. Ive only seen a few mercs out here but they didnt really roll out the wire. I guess just base security.



Good to hear that. 



Krevan said:


> God forbid someone called your cellphone when they were around, youd hit the ground before the second ring.



Goddamn. Some scary shit. I guess sometimes you can't even trust your allies down there in the Army : /



Krevan said:


> Trying to operate outside of ROE because they were special forces only landed them in heaps of trouble.


 
Again, great to hear that.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Well you got 3 kinds of sick fucks inn war:

1 The psycos, The kill cuz they love it, not cuz its funny
2 the Manic / sadists they kills hit for fun and fidn it funny
3 the warped ones (this one is complicated)


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> though it does look like it was a weapon it doesn't mean it was used...who throws away the weapons they're going to use?



Weapons caches ^

And yes the things in those videos have happened. But you cant say the American Army is all like that or even 95% of it. Its just a handful of videos created by dumbasses who couldnt hack it in the civilian world and barely get by in the Army. Fuck them, everyone I know who does shit like this has their military careers ended or are punished severely. Its just due to the media and these tards posting on youtube 95% of the good soldiers are shown like their nazis or some shit.

I have made so many friends with Iraqi children and adults (Check out my FA gallery) and I really care for them. We drop humanitarian aid, play soccer with them, help them with problems (Ex: Repairing genrators, fixing pipes, giving them water)


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Okay, let me say a few things about these videos.



NewfDraggie said:


> Soldiers blow up dog, find it funny



This one was actually an accident, they called in an EOD Detonation until they saw a Dog walking toward where the EOD was supposed to go off, they were too late to call it off, however, I don't think they should find it funny.



NewfDraggie said:


> soldiers blow up another dog, find it funny
> Soldiers shoot another dog
> Soldier shoots yet another dog
> blowing up a kitten and cheering


 
These were obviously done on purpose.



NewfDraggie said:


> Splashing kids with a hummer
> Teasing kids with water
> Shooting unarmed civilians then celebrating
> Soldier being a dick to Iraqi police



In these videos, it is obvious that they are being dicks.



NewfDraggie said:


> Soldier messing up civilians house for fun



Well, they were just having fun, but that doesn't excuse them to break into someone's house.



NewfDraggie said:


> Having kids chant "I love pork!"



Actually, I don't see what is wrong with this one, the kids seem to enjoy it, and it is not like the soldier was threatening them at gunpoint they were just playing around with the kid.



NewfDraggie said:


> Soldier throwing a child off of a bridge



Actually, this was a prank, if you looked more deeply into the video, the kid pushes donkeys off this bridge, so the Soldiers decided to give him a little bit of revenge. The kid didn't get hurt, so I really don't see what is wrong with this one.

Okay, Newf, maybe there are a lot of pricks in the army, but I don't think that responsible soldiers like Krevan do any dumb shit like this, and I also don't think that this kind of stuff happens on a daily basis in Iraq.


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## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, again, my main problem with the guys currently serving in Iraq are the morons who are obviously fresh from the frat house who think it's funny to do stupid shit like open fire on a street full of civilians and shit like that.

And Blackwater/Xe and any other mercenary group they decide to bring in. Fucking psychos. USAF should use Blackwater's HQ as target practice. No decent man would ever join a mercenary organization, and the world has no need for that kind of bullshit. The CEO should be tried and hung, the profiteering sleazball.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> And yes the things in those videos have happened. But you cant say the American Army is all like that or even 95% of it. Its just a handful of videos created by dumbasses who couldnt hack it in the civilian world and barely get by in the Army. Fuck them, everyone I know who does shit like this has their military careers ended or are punished severely. Its just due to the media and these tards posting on youtube 95% of the good soldiers are shown like their nazis or some shit.
> 
> I have made so many friends with Iraqi children and adults (Check out my FA gallery) and I really care for them. We drop humanitarian aid, play soccer with them, help them with problems (Ex: Repairing genrators, fixing pipes, giving them water)



You stole the words straight from my mouth.

It is good to know that you are caring for many of the Iraqi Children and adults down there as well, you are doing a very good deed, and I encourage you to continue doing it, and to avoid going down the path of those idiotic Soldiers shown in Newf's videos.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Yeah, again, my main problem with the guys currently serving in Iraq are the morons who are obviously fresh from the frat house who think it's funny to do stupid shit like open fire on a street full of civilians and shit like that.
> 
> And Blackwater/Xe and any other mercenary group they decide to bring in. Fucking psychos. USAF should use Blackwater's HQ as target practice. No decent man would ever join a mercenary organization, and the world has no need for that kind of bullshit. The CEO should be tried and hung, the sleazball.


There are some PMCs with merit, ones that are mostly used for hostile security it depends on what the roots of the company are form Blackwater is one of the harshest but best equipped groups, as well as the one of the least ethical *proper* PMCs dont make lots of money as PMCs are hired to evade liability in situations where the military could get a bad rap Like clearing out meat shielded insurgents the US military cannot act when civilians are at risk PMCs can, a unnecessary evil in times like this


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks Darkwing. There are so few soldiers that do fucked up things like this its shitty that they give us all a bad name. We do dumb things to pass the time here between ourselves ex: hazing each other or building dumb shit like the burning man we made out of all the empty care package boxes people sent me haha. Ill get pics later, but we never do things that harm or kill anything.

Some pics of the friends I made over here
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2498436/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2635482/


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Thanks Darkwing. There are so few soldiers that do fucked up things like this its shitty that they give us all a bad name. We do dumb things to pass the time here between ourselves ex: hazing each other or building dumb shit like the burning man we made out of all the empty care package boxes people sent me haha. Ill get pics later, but we never do things that harm or kill anything.
> 
> Some pics of the friends I made over here
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2498436/
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2635482/



Well Krevan, what else do you expect, the media is always out there to make everything look like assholes 



Krevan said:


> like the burning man we made out of all the empty care package boxes people sent me haha.



Haha, definitely pic worthy xD



Krevan said:


> Thanks Darkwing.http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2635482/



No problem, I am one of the few people out there that sees a bit of good in everything.



Krevan said:


> Some pics of the friends I made over here
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2498436/
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2635482/



Those pics are so sweet, those kids are very cute, I always thought that Muslims hated Americans, though, but looking at these pics make me say otherwise.


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## Zerulu (Aug 10, 2009)

All of them. B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B] B]


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## Lukar (Aug 10, 2009)

I've never used a gun, but any gun that gets the job done is the gun for me, I guess.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Zerulu said:


> All of them.



Best answer Ive heard yet.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Weapons caches ^


Bullshit. US citizens are allowed to touch weapons, why not them? Doublestandardfailbyworldpolice.


> And yes the things in those videos have happened. But you cant say the American Army is all like that or even 95% of it.


Defending your precious army much?
Actually I can say it, seeing as -every- death over there has been unjust.


> Its just a handful of videos created by dumbasses who couldnt hack it in the civilian world and barely get by in the Army. Fuck them, everyone I know who does shit like this has their military careers ended or are punished severely. Its just due to the media and these tards posting on youtube 95% of the good soldiers are shown like their nazis or some shit.


Seems like somebody didn't watch them all or read the stories.
It is actually the majority like this, not the minority.


> I have made so many friends with Iraqi children and adults (Check out my FA gallery) and I really care for them. We drop humanitarian aid, play soccer with them, help them with problems (Ex: Repairing genrators, fixing pipes, giving them water)


Welcome to the minority.


Darkwing said:


> This one was actually an accident, they called in an EOD Detonation until they saw a Dog walking toward where the EOD was supposed to go off, they were too late to call it off, however, I don't think they should find it funny.


Uh...they're like "DETONATE IT LOL!!!!", they can wait...if it goes off before detonation it won't do more damage.


> Actually, I don't see what is wrong with this one, the kids seem to enjoy it, and it is not like the soldier was threatening them at gunpoint they were just playing around with the kid.


I think pork is kosher of sorts, they don't actually know what they're saying and more than likely it's taboo...why else would they say it? What reason do the US troops have them for saying it other than teaching them an English phrase that's offensive while making it seem like it's something else?


> Actually, this was a prank, if you looked more deeply into the video, the kid pushes donkeys off this bridge, so the Soldiers decided to give him a little bit of revenge. The kid didn't get hurt, so I really don't see what is wrong with this one.


Oh I dunno, them being marines might have something to do with it...and being against several laws to put their hands on a civilian like this may also be another reason I posted it.


> Okay, Newf, maybe there are a lot of pricks in the army, but I don't think that responsible soldiers like Krevan do any dumb shit like this, and I also don't think that this kind of stuff happens on a daily basis in Iraq.


I know, which is why I said not all, just most. He's an exception. And yeah this kinda shit happens weekly, though not daily I'm sure.

Anyway, it's kinda hard to defend the majority of the soldiers I've seen. So many marines think they're the best, that they can do what ever they want to who ever they want, and act like a total asshole to everybody else but apparently the Marines are special. Then they turn around and blame their thought process on training. They go through a part of training that takes away that process, I know all about it. The soldiers are to blame as well, like Krevan who simply tells them he won't kill innocent things for no reason.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Dude, you are so far gone on the media brainwashing wagon its not even worth arguing. You know nothing of the US military but what is fed to you.


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## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> There are some PMCs with merit


No. They are mercenaries.



> ones that are mostly used for hostile security it depends on what the roots of the company are form Blackwater is one of the harshest but best equipped groups, as well as the one of the least ethical


They are indeed one of the best equipped groups out there, and that's one of the reasons why I think they should be destroyed. They are literally a *privately-owned company* that is *equipped such that if they really, truly wanted to (or were paid to), they could effectively attack US soil*. They claim no borders. And what happens when a "contractor" gets involved (read: caught) in illegal activity? They throw up their hands and say "Oh, well, it's not like we can flog him!"



> *proper* PMCs dont make lots of money as PMCs are hired to evade liability in situations where the military could get a bad rap Like clearing out meat shielded insurgents the US military cannot act when civilians are at risk PMCs can, a unnecessary evil in times like this



No.
*No.*
These kinds of jobs aren't jobs that should be undertaken to begin with. What you're talking about is using these guys as they've been used so far - To shoot up civilians without the military taking the credit for it. This is not necessary at all. How would you feel if another country's military was operating in your back yard, and scary dudes with guns were using you as a hostage/meat shield, and that military suddenly fucks off while they call in some random guys in black who've been shooting up the neighbourhood to come shoot the shit out of you instead, rather than, oh, I don't know, perform some fucking hostage rescue and flank the bastards? To put it another way, how would you feel if you were taken hostage, and instead of sending in a hostage rescue team, they just razed the building or vehicle you were being held in?

Fuck no.

Stun grenades exist for a reason. This sort of mentality is one of the major reasons why it's not so very difficult to believe that US soldiers are over there being assholes. Sure, you can say that it means that it saves American lives if the rules are broken and the soldiers don't have to do their jobs, but hell, calling in a *hired hit squad* to illegally blow the fuck out of civilians is not the fucking way to do it.

Blackwater/Xe and its like need to die, and *now*. There is not now nor has there ever been a need for their services, and hiring them seems to suggest that their ability to operate outside the rules is a major selling point for the decision-makers, which, really, I mean *come on*.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Dude, you are so far gone on the media brainwashing wagon its not even worth arguing. You know nothing of the US military but what the media feeds you.


You know nothing of the military other than what you're told by...the military.
I know much more than just what the "media" feeds me, seeing as it's not "feeding" me anything I don't check myself.
There's no brainwashing involved on my end, wish I could say the same to you; you yourself have said you've been asked to kill stuff and you denied it. I'm fucking complementing you, only insulting your military, and yet you're still offended. I'm saying soldiers like you are good while the other ones, the majority, aren't.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> _*(stuff)*_.


Like come on! dont you see the nice days of cut and dry war is over! ITs goign to be more subversive and brutal as time passes no more glory wars, no more black and white Its all a scummy dirty Grey Civilians Die Tactics are unethical and we cannot fight unconventional warfare with conventional warfare

Its gonna get worse, allot worse


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> Like come on! dont you see the nice days of cut and dry war is over! ITs goign to be more subversive and brutal as time passes no more glory wars, no more black and white Its all a scummy dirty Grey Civilians Die Tactics are unethical and we cannot fight unconventional warfare with conventional warfare
> 
> Its gonna get worse, allot worse


It'll only get worse as long as people impend free speech and knowledge. That's really hard with the internet around, soon it'll get worse but it will get better not long after that.
PMC's already have a -lot- of negative press, they won't last much longer.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Well I appreciate the compliment but its not the majority man. Theres a lot of good hearted people in this military, a lot of us are here because we want to be here. Cause god knows wed be making more money working at Mc Donalds. The military hasn't brainwashed me into anything. People here are held accountable for their actions, we just had our battalion commander (lieutenant colonel) fired for drinking on the job. I dont see why everyone is saying the American army is full of a bunch of shitheads when other armies are just the same way.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

You've only seen your immediate squad(s), I -highly- doubt you've seen more than 10% of the fighting force over there, or have been there since 2001 (or god forbid the 90's and 80's) when more shit was occurring that's just making its way onto the "media" now.

And no, other armies aren't the same. When's the last time you heard of Canadian troops shooting down US planes, or killing US troops?
When's the last time you heard any fighting force (allies besides Israel) shooting civilians since the 40's?


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> It'll only get worse as long as people impend free speech and knowledge. That's really hard with the internet around, soon it'll get worse but it will get better not long after that.
> PMC's already have a -lot- of negative press, they won't last much longer.


 Thats not the Issue Ethical tactics no longer work, so people will find ways to get away with unethical ones When foes hide with innocents when all sides have nukes, when you are fighting a cause not a country War is not the same, Its changing,


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> Thats not the Issue Ethical tactics no longer work, so people will find ways to get away with unethical ones When foes hide with innocents when all sides have nukes, when you are fighting a cause not a country War is not the same, Its changing,


What? Since when do they not work? Do the US troops now have negative ethics fields, or is it just too costly to train -real- soldiers how to fight and give them the weapons they require?

Also...all sides don't have nukes.
Most countries that have nukes don't have ICBM's to carry them to the US anyway, and none of those countries that do are in any war right now...well ruassia recently was, but not with the USA.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> You've only seen your immediate squad(s), I -highly- doubt you've seen more than 10% of the fighting force over there, or have been there since 2001 (or god forbid the 90's and 80's) when more shit was occurring that's just making its way onto the "media" now.
> 
> And no, other armies aren't the same. When's the last time you heard of Canadian troops shooting down US planes, or killing US troops?
> When's the last time you heard any fighting force (allies besides Israel) shooting civilians since the 40's?



I forgot we started arguing on the internet, not gonna change each others views. Im glad you see that not all of us are bad but please dont think Americans are like that cause were not.

I'm proud of what I do, proud of being an American, proud of who I am, and proud of being a tanker in the 1st Cavalry Division "Honor & Courage"


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## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> Like come on! dont you see the nice days of cut and dry war is over! ITs goign to be more subversive and brutal as time passes no more glory wars, no more black and white Its all a scummy dirty Grey Civilians Die Tactics are unethical and we cannot fight unconventional warfare with conventional warfare
> 
> Its gonna get worse, allot worse



So because war is ugly, it's time to pull out all the stops and let private companies march in to kill civilians whenever there might be someone hiding among them? It's suddenly OK to screw the rules, suddenly OK to fuck the Geneva convention by making sure your army isn't the one doing any wrong - It's this company's fault? It's all suddenly OK?

War has always been and forever will be dirty. Vietnam was dirty. Korea was dirty. Desert Storm was dirty. World War II was one of the dirtiest conflicts in history. The whole point is that you engage the enemy and try not to get civilians in the crossfire. Casualties of war are ultimately unavoidable. However, bringing in a band of raving lunatics to shoot up the civvies because you can't order your army to do it is one of the worst things you could do, both tactically and in terms of humanity. What do you think those civilians think of those "contractors"? I'd sure as hell take up arms if I saw my father get gunned down in cold blood while the fuckers in black are laughing like hyenas in a big black SUV. These people are solving nothing. This isn't the face of war - This is senseless killing of innocent people by hired gun psychopaths that will go unpunished. They are ruining every step the United States military makes towards making friends with these people.

Mercenaries have no place in any modern military.

EDIT:


> Thats not the Issue Ethical tactics no longer work, so people will find ways to get away with unethical ones When foes hide with innocents when all sides have nukes, when you are *fighting a cause* not a country War is not the same, Its changing,


You cannot fight a cause. The War on Terror is a joke like the War on Drugs and every other war against non-entities are; You can't fight an ideal. The more you fight it - *especially with "unethical" tactics*, the more it will spread; The more hatred will flow. The US military in general has the right idea - Smart weapons, urban warfare/room clearing tactics, specialized training; These are the things that are required to combat this. Not widespread, indiscriminate killing.

But whatever, it's really too late for me to continue on with this and this is completely off-topic. I'll just leave it at "Blackwater/Xe should not exist" and call it a night.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Well I appreciate the compliment but its not the majority man. Theres a lot of good hearted people in this military, a lot of us are here because we want to be here. Cause god knows wed be making more money working at Mc Donalds. The military hasn't brainwashed me into anything. People here are held accountable for their actions, we just had our battalion commander (lieutenant colonel) fired for drinking on the job. I dont see why everyone is saying the American army is full of a bunch of shitheads when other armies are just the same way.



Krevan proves a good point, he is in the army after all, Newf, you aren't.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Also...all sides don't have nukes.
> Most countries that have nukes don't have ICBM's to carry them to the US anyway, and none of those countries that do are in any war right now...well ruassia recently was, but not with the USA.



*Breaths sigh of relief*

Thanks, I always had that fear of nuclear war, this helped it out a lot.

Because, ya know, North Korea xD


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## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> Because, ya know, North Korea xD



Their rockets can't get any further than the Sea of Japan. However, if you live in Japan, or in any nation of North Korea's shit-list in that radius, this is a bad thing.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> Krevan proves a good point, he is in the army after all, Newf, you aren't.


I've had people say this to me before, but sadly I know more about the army than most people in the army; being in a group doesn't entitle you to a massive amount of information not available publicly; being in a group doesn't magically grant you with all knowledge of said group; being in a group simply means you're in that group, no more.

So if I were in the US military would I have more right to voice my knowledge on it? Would my knowledge become fact only because of that and nothing else? If I study biochemistry, if I write a paper saying furries are genetically linked to rapists...is it all real? This is a stupid counter-argument, one I encounter a lot. It's a failsafe, a card people play when they're backed into a corner and can't get themselves out without a "I'm right no matter what because of xx and you're wrong because of xxx" card; see fursicution; see Christianity.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Their rockets can't get any further than the Sea of Japan. However, if you live in Japan, or in any nation of North Korea's shit-list in that radius, this is a bad thing.



Again, thanks, I think I finally got over my fear of Nuclear War, because there was a rumor going on about high risks of a scab missle on the west coast, and possibly on the east coast (I live on the east coast )



NewfDraggie said:


> I've had people say this to me before, but sadly I know more about the army than most people in the army



: /

I don't know, Newf, that part is debatable.



NewfDraggie said:


> being in a group doesn't entitle you to a massive amount of information not available publicly; being in a group doesn't magically grant you with all knowledge of said group.



Actually, it does, a great example of this would be Area 51.



NewfDraggie said:


> So if I were in the US military would I have more right to voice my knowledge on it?



Purty much.



NewfDraggie said:


> Would my knowledge become fact only because of that and nothing else?



Why would you lie negatively about a group you are in?


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

On a post regarding bringing personal weapons to war:


NewfDraggie said:


> They allow you to bring a primary or a sidearm of your choice, but there's limitations on what ones you can take. You also need to supply your own ammo and magazines so it would be preferred to take something 5.56x45mm (or maybe that's the limit) as a primary and .45ACP, 9x19mm as a sidearm. I don't think .50 AE or .500S&W is even allowed.



Yup you got me man, you sure know a lot more about my country and what its like being a soldier in the US Army than I ever possibly could. I mean what do I know, I'm just an American soldier who is dumber than a box of rocks and kills civilians to get my rocks off.

Please -_-


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## Duality Jack (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> On a post regarding bringing personal weapons to war:
> 
> 
> Yup you got me man, you sure know a lot more about my country and what its like being a soldier in the US Army than I ever possibly could. I mean what do I know, I'm just an American soldier who is dumber than a box of rocks and kills civilians to get my rocks off.
> ...


Unless someone has been in green, sayin they know is just obscene! 

Like really, whoever things its cut and dry is one of 3 things
A) Stupid
B) Completely oblivious to reality
C) Both A and B


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Haha never heard that one before but its very true.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Yup you got me man, you sure know a lot more about my country and what its like being a soldier in the US Army than I ever possibly could. I mean what do I know, I'm just an American soldier who is dumber than a box of rocks and kills civilians to get my rocks off.
> 
> Please -_-



That's Newf for ya 


But I got a question for Newf, have you ever been to America? Have you ever got a general idea on how our people are like?

I mean, you live in Canada, and you say you know much more about the army than the army itself.

When you say that you sound like a birther, and you know how moronic those people can be.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> I don't know, Newf, that part is debatable.


I've had Marines tell me tracer rounds are simply bullets being heated by the barrel and not phosphorus. Runefox can vouch for this one.


Krevan said:


> On a post regarding bringing personal weapons to war:
> Yup you got me man, you sure know a lot more about my country and what its like being a soldier in the US Army than I ever possibly could. I mean what do I know, I'm just an American soldier who is dumber than a box of rocks and kills civilians to get my rocks off.
> Please -_-


Was I wrong? This post holds no content besides my own.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I've had Marines tell me tracer rounds are simply bullets being heated by the barrel and not phosphorus. Runefox can vouch for this one.



That doesn't matter, I.Q levels vary between soldiers -.-



NewfDraggie said:


> Was I wrong? This post holds no content besides my own.



Which was the point of that post xD


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah I replied to it a long time ago but didnt quote the original message. Theres too  many uniformity issues regarding weapon repairs, ammunition and appearances in general for personal weapons to be financially and logistically possible.

As for tracer rounds I dont know whats on the tip, I think its phosphorous but its not because of a heated barrel. Otherwise all bullets would look like that. In an untouched ammunition belt every fifth round is normally a tracer. As for M16 magazines, well you can stock those with what you want. Tracers burn for about 3-6 seconds on the ground. *Edit* Sorry I misread the post, yeah that was a dumbass thing of them to say rofl.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> That's Newf for ya


I'm missing something, I don't get his post at all, it's just what I wrote without any opinion at all and sarcasm that's meaningless.


> But I got a question for Newf, have you ever been to America? Have you ever got a general idea on how our people are like?


I've been there once, and overall it was a plesent experience, unfortuanatly anytime we went into a mall or restaurant there was always one or two morons shouting or acting retarded. A lot of people are really loud, they don't say please or thank you, nobody held open the doors...I felt unwelcome there entirely even though I was wearing US Arctic Cat clothing and nobody knew I wasn't from around there. I was there for the x-games, in Duluth, Minnesota so I kept to myself most of the time.


> I mean, you live in Canada, and you say you know much more about the army than the army itself.


More about the army than most people in the army...like that's hard, Runefox knows more than a lot of them as well, not to pull him into this...


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> Unless someone has been in green, sayin they know is just obscene!



Oh shit! I totally have to sig that xD

Your not fucking around when your forum name is "Poet".


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Yeah I replied to it a long time ago but didnt quote the original message. Theres too  many uniformity issues regarding weapon repairs, ammunition and appearances in general for personal weapons to be financially and logistically possible.
> 
> As for tracer rounds I dont know whats on the tip, I think its phosphorous but its not because of a heated barrel. Otherwise all bullets would look like that. In an untouched ammunition belt every fifth round is normally a tracer. As for M16 magazines, well you can stock those with what you want. Tracers burn for about 3-6 seconds on the ground. *Edit* Sorry I misread the post, yeah that was a dumbass thing of them to say rofl.



I've talked to Marines that have G36's and G36c's which use the same ammo as the M16/m4/ar-15's, the 5.56x45mm but jam less, can take more punishment, more accurate...etc... so I know they're allowed to swap out primaries. I've also heard about a lot of people taking M1911's, or other sidearms...even revolvers like a SSA, so I know they can swap sidearms. What I am unsure of is if they're allowed to take a weapon that doesn't have ammunition readily available...or if they can take their own ammo and if they run out it's tough luck.
I do know they're not allowed to leave behind their own weapons, so most people that take another rifle carry both with them.

And yes, it is phosphorus; phosphorus burns with contact to oxygen.

Edit: oh, just a note because I know you're allowed to arrange the tracers as you want; try putting the last two bullets (first ones you put in) of every magazine you have as tracer rounds. You'll know when to reload then without having to count.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

It is against the law to bring anything to the fight besides what your issued and the G36, 1911, and SAA are not issued by the American military. Those guns are confiscated from insurgents or illegally shipped somehow overseas if people have them.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> I've been there once, and overall it was a plesent experience, unfortuanatly anytime we went into a mall or restaurant there was always one or two morons shouting or acting retarded.



Oh God, finally someone who recognized that xD

But it never really bothers me, people are just enjoying themselves, leave them alone.



NewfDraggie said:


> A lot of people are really loud, they don't say please or thank you, nobody held open the doors...I felt unwelcome there entirely even though I was wearing US Arctic Cat clothing and nobody knew I wasn't from around there.



Sounds a lot like New York, America actually wasn't really like this, since 9/11 (God bless those who died that day.) a lot of the New Yorkers have been moving and scrambling everywhere in the country. And trust me, I know this as a fact, the crime rate fucking spiked here at Pennsylvania since the Yorkies came here.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> It is against the law to bring anything to the fight besides what your issued and the G36, 1911, and SAA are not issued by the American military. Those guns are confiscated from insurgents or illegally shipped somehow overseas if people have them.


The "law" or regulation?
Tell that to those people who have G36c's and M1911's. 
Might be different for tank crew, aren't you issued M4's or PDW's only?


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Your right, regulation is a better word for it. Same difference lol

People usually wont rat you out for having a non issue gun unless they are some uptight asshole. Just saying its not allowed by the military.

Mmm weapons arent really issued according to MOS now anymore. The only thing tankers get that a lot of jobs dont is M92 pistols. Ive seen finance females walking around with pristine SAW machine guns and M4s while we have some tankers who are still rocking the M16A4 when we should all have M4s.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Hmmm, you're USMC right? M1a1 or Tusk? I could of swore the Tusk crew had -a- M4 for the commander.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> while we have some tankers who are still rocking the M16A4 when we should all have M4s.



M16's eh?

I shot a M16 Carbine once, it was badass, it was much heavier and louder than your average airsoft xD


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Im Army, the Marines still use the M1A1 and a few M1A2s. Right now we have the M1A2 System Enhancement Package 2 with TUSK upgrades (Not the usual tusk you see in pics)

Tankers are supposed to get M4s regardless of position its just how many M4s we got to hand out. Sometimes you get shafted with the M16 (Which I prefer  except for CQB)

The Commander can operate the turret and has a M2 .50 Cal on the hatch, the Loader has an M240 7.62 mg on the hatch. The Gunner has control of the 120mm turret, a M240 coaxial mg, and a remote control counter-sniper M2 .50 Cal (part of the tusk) Driver has well, an 80 ton tank.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Im Army, the Marines still use the M1A1 and a few M1A2s. Right now we have the M1A2 System Enhancement Package 2 with TUSK upgrades (Not the usual tusk you see in pics)
> 
> Tankers are supposed to get M4s regardless of position its just how many M4s we got to hand out. Sometimes you get shafted with the M16 (Which I prefer  except for CQB)
> 
> The Commander can operate the turret and has a M2 .50 Cal on the hatch, the Loader has an M240 7.62 mg on the hatch. The Gunner has control of the 120mm turret, a M240 coaxial mg, and a remote control counter-sniper M2 .50 Cal (part of the tusk) Driver has well, an 80 ton tank.



Yeah I thought you were USMC, but I swore I heard you say your loader had a weapon when turned out, which means it's a tusk and the m1a2 tusk isn't available to the USMC yet so I was like "??" and had to ask.
I know all about the tusk darlin'. ;3


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Hahaha gotcha ;3

I meant to say its a different tusk than shown in a lot of the pictures and articles online. We dont get the remote control turret on the TC hatch. They gave us reactive armor on the sides, a V-Shaped hull on the bottom with an extra 5 tons of armor down there. A remote control .50 cal, lots of glass shields around the hatches. Some AC fans and cooling vests. A phone in the back for crunchies to talk to us XD And the driver gets some god awful shock resistant hammock type seat which is a major pain in the ass to setup.


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## Shotgunjim (Aug 10, 2009)

War IS a valid excuse because, as I've already told you, it fucks with your mind. Whether or not our excuses for our involvment in Iraq were justified is irrelevant. How would you like to be fighting a blind war, where you can't even tell who is friend or foe and death could come from anywhere in an instant? What if you saw your closest friends, who have become like brothers to you, die in the most horrific ways imaginable, and even see some of them end up committing suicide because the war took such a heavy toll on them? Would you be able to maintain your sanity, would you be able to keep yourself from being jittery and on guard at almost all times? Would you be able to keep yourself from doing things that you would never consider doing under normal circumstances? I don't think you even know the answer to that question, unless you've actually seen the horrors of war. If you think that everyone who dons a U.S. military uniform is so despicable, then maybe you should get your ass flown over there to see what they're going through, before you keep on spouting all of your inane, overly emotional, anti-American/anti-U.S. military bullshit. A video will never tell a person the whole story, and I am unconvinced by them anyway. As it is, I don't believe jack shit of anything that the U.N. says. Nothing you can post will ever convince me that all of our troops are nothing but blood thirsty, cold-hearted, murderers. You are so patently ill-informed and hatefully biased that I can't even find the words to express how utterly pathetic it is. And the idea that you would even have the audacity to consider mercenaries to be on par with our military is perpetually insulting to the highest possible degree. You must be one of those morons who just hears a portion of one side of the story, and you decide to hop on the "death to America" bandwagon with all of the jihadists who hate us so much. It makes me wonder if you sympathize with them. So honestly, do you like to watch jihad training videos on Youtube or something?

And why is it that you have such unrestrained hate for our troops while completely ignoring the fact that the Japanese slaughtered hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Chinese during the "Rape of Nanking"? Where's your resentment towards them? And what about the Nazis and the Holocaust, or are you in denial of that? What about Stalin? What about Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, and Slobodan Milosevic? You have all the hate in the world for our troops and you don't even mention any of history's most evil, inhumane, and unrepentant tyrants. And what the fuck do you mean exactly by "basic orders"? You mean the basic orders where a soldier's CO tells him to go out on patrol and then he ends up getting ambushed by a bunch of fucking hajis with RPGs, or gets blown to bits by a kid with a bomb strapped to himself? Again, you have no fucking clue. 

So tell me, mister wiseguy, exactly how old do you have to be to join the Canadian military? I'm sure it can't be much more than our minimun age requirement of 17. And let's not forget that Canada has had past involvement in Iraq. Why have you not mentioned that? Hmmm, I wonder. And don't attempt to make an argument that Canadian troops would never commit the same atrocities if pushed to the breaking point. Nationality has nothing to do with it. Any way you look at it, we are all humans with emotions and psychological limitations. And you would never be able to eliminate the killer instinct that we all have deep down inside of us. It's human nature, and when it comes out, it's ugly. War changes the very fabric of someone's personality. Why do you think that so many soldiers from countries all around the world come home from wars as broken down wrecks that turn to the bottle? Do you even know what kind of enemy we're fighting over there? Radicals who strap bombs to innocent little kids and detonate them in crowded markets, can you even begin to imagine what an enemy like that would be willing to do just to kill Americans?

Now why don't we focus on the good things that American troops have done in Iraq? Let's play a little trivia game called "Did you ever hear".

Did you ever hear about how we relieved the Iraqis of the oppression and tyranny of Saddam Hussein, who brutally murdered his own people without a second thought or hint of remorse? Did you ever hear about how we have protected Iraqi civilians from insurgents? Did you ever hear about how a lot of Iraqis have come to appreciate the fact that our troops are making an effort to help them? Did you ever hear about how our troops have given Iraqis clothing, food, and medical care when they needed those things? Have you ever heard about how we gave the Iraqis the chance to vote in a free election for the first time in 20 some years? You would have to have lived under a rock for the past four years or so if you haven't seen the pictures of Iraqi voters holding up their purple ink-stained fingers. Did you ever hear about how Iraqis, now that they are no longer living under a state of totalitarianism, are now able to have cell phones, MP3s, video cameras, and all of the other electronic gadgetry that western society enjoys? Did you hear about how Iraqis are now able to walk the streets of Baghdad at night without fear of being killed? Did you ever hear about how our soldiers have helped to train Iraqi troops and police forces so that they can defend their country after we leave? And lastly, did you ever hear about how our troops have recently pulled out of Iraqi cities to allow Iraqi forces to take over the roles of peace keeping?

As much as I feel the need to attempt to set you straight, It's probably for nought. I might as well be talking to a wall. So go ahead, continue to hate us, but keep in mind that nothing you say or believe will ever change my views, the views of other Americans, and the fact that countless Americans will continue to stand vigilantly at the ready to die for their country, just as they have always done throughout our 233 year history. The atrocities that have been committed by a few unbecoming, unprofessional embarassments to all of the men and women who serve under the flag of the United States, will never be able to come close to outweighing the good that is the mission of every branch of the U.S. armed forces. You really should look at things in a broader perspective, rather than sticking to belittling rhetoric and pure disdain for people that you don't even know. 

I'm about finished with you now, and don't even bother to respond to this, because I don't give a shit what you have to say about it and I won't even give any thought to reading any future replies from you.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Oh so because you did some good, being the world police and doing stuff you shouldn't even be doing, it gives you guys total right to do anything you want. lol I'll go give somebody a dollar then punch them in the face in that case.

Damn ammurricans, you can't even prove most of what you say, hell even Saddam was fighting the real terrorists himself, he might of been a bad leader but he certainly isn't the head of terrorism, or was; Iran is the bad-boy.

Most Iraqis actually hate the US, they built a monument for the guy who threw a shoe at Bush. That says a lot.

You're -forcing- democracy onto a country, even though democracy isn't even that great, it's flawed heavily. That's not something to be proud of.

You know, your entire post is actually very laughable. xD


> So tell me, mister wiseguy, exactly how old do you have to be to join the Canadian military?


You can't go overseas or engage in combat until 18, but you can sign up into training at age 14, 12 for cadets.


> And let's not forget that Canada has had past involvement in Iraq


You're thinking Afghanistan, though we had a few officers involved with Iraq we've never been fully involved.


> And don't attempt to make an argument that Canadian troops would never commit the same atrocities if pushed to the breaking point


We're in Afghanistan...we're not doing anything like what I've said...at all actually.


> Nationality has nothing to do with it.


Er, yeah it does...are you retarded? Different orders, different military's, different teachings, and a lot of other differences. Going by what you're saying there's no difference between North Korea and the US, Nationality has nothing to do with how their military act and not only do they do everything US troops do, they also use the same weapons and have the same level of fitness, training, etc; exact same orders believe it or not.. 


> And you would never be able to eliminate the killer instinct that we all have deep down inside of us


Oh, I didn't know that was a viable excuse for murder, please call every inmate in jail for manslaughter and murder and inform them of this excuse.
I've also said they're being ordered to kill civillians, there's a big difference in doing it because you snapped and doing it because you're told too. There's also a lot of people that do it because they're bored, because they want to kill somebody, or because they simply can. If you're going to use the whole "they're under pressure and snapped" thing, you might want to only include only less than one percent, seeing as I doubt the majority of troops are snapping over there and if they aren't all removed. they're being ORDERED to do this.


> War changes the very fabric of someone's personality


Prove this. Somehow I doubt everybody loses all moral and ethical code when in war, if so you'll have to back that puppy up.


> Do you even know what kind of enemy we're fighting over there?


None? They're not your enemy. You're the assailants, I hope you know.


> can you even begin to imagine what an enemy like that would be willing to do just to kill Americans?


can you imagine what would happen if people attacked the US? What the civilians there would do? The same shit.


> And why is it that you have such unrestrained hate for our troops while completely ignoring the fact that the Japanese slaughtered hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Chinese during the "Rape of Nanking"? Where's your resentment towards them? And what about the Nazis and the Holocaust, or are you in denial of that? What about Stalin? What about Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, and Slobodan Milosevic? You have all the hate in the world for our troops and you don't even mention any of history's most evil, inhumane, and unrepentant tyrants.


Oh, I thought that if I mention one thing I didn't have to list everything else related.
So if I say I hate chocolate icecream I must go on to explain every other type I dislike as well...or else my argument is invalid. Cool story...didn't know that one, thanks.
Did you know that all the wars the US has been in, all the people they've killed is of higher number than any other country?


> War IS a valid excuse because, as I've already told you, it fucks with your mind


Not as much as you're thinking. The people that go off on killing tangents are an extremely low number. People with PTSD are also extremely low in number. Sorry, but it's not an excuse.


> Whether or not our excuses for our involvment in Iraq were justified is irrelevant


No it's not you bloody idiot. Seriously, how the fuck is it irrelevant?

I'm just going to stop, you're clearly not educated on any of these matters. That entire post is just laughably stupid. Your name says it all "shotgun jim". lol


----------



## the grey fox (Aug 10, 2009)

i said it at the beginning of the thread, and i'll say it again. knives are so much better than guns.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

the grey fox said:


> i said it at the beginning of the thread, and i'll say it again. knives are so much better than guns.


I like all weapons personally, I'd like to have a few swords but I already have enough knives...more is awesome though.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Did you know that all the wars the US has been in, all the people they've killed is of higher number than any other country?



Hooooooooooooah lol


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Hooooooooooooah lol


I should of really added "since the US has existed", but my point still stands.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Aug 10, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> Google "M1 Thumb", then go buy a SA M1A.



How about both?  

Oh and throw a Kar98k in the mix.  :3


----------



## Leostale (Aug 10, 2009)

I'll stick with airsoft first, I don't wanna to kill anyone yet, I don't have any use for real firearms...
But i would love to use real firearms for target shooting


----------



## Like_a_Fawx (Aug 10, 2009)

Up here in montana real thing .


----------



## Irreverent (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Mmm nope, M1 uses clips...not mags.



Yes it does.  And so does the M14. The point was, both the M1 and the M14 use "clips"..... one uses an enbloc and the other uses a stripper in addition to a removable box magazine.   Hence the comment about you both being correct. 

Like the SMLE, the M14 uses both a box magazine AND chargers.   The M1 uses an enbloc-clip (borrowed from the bolt action Berthier) and the M14, SMLE, K98 all use 5-rd strippers.  Even today, the Type-55 SKS and variants use 10-round chargers.



Shark_the_raptor said:


> How about both?
> 
> Oh and throw a Kar98k in the mix.  :3



Oh sure.  Its starts with an M1, then an M14, then a K98.  Maybe a SMLE No1 or No.4, a mint No.5 Jungle Carbine if you're lucky.....next thing you know, you're ass deep in Nagants (Russian and Polish), Finish Mossins, French Lebels.....its a slipper slope to hell my friend.  Been there...done that!


----------



## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

> I'm about finished with you now, and don't even bother to respond to this, because I don't give a shit what you have to say about it and I won't even give any thought to reading any future replies from you.


Odd words from a guy who just spewed a wall of excuses for the incredibly inhumane things that have happened after getting butthurt that maybe someone doesn't like the way things have been/are going down in Iraq. These things are happening, and there is no excuse; The jerks who are doing things like that are ruining everything that the good guys like Krevan have been fighting for all this time, just like the Blackwater guys have been doing.

These guys who do all that stuff, shooting into a street, shooting at civilians, shouting things like "Oh yeah, you just got fucking SMOKED", there's no excuse for that kind of thing in the American military. They aren't heroes - They're immature children, and they need to be caught before they do any real harm, and punished severely when they do, to separate them from the people who _are_ hero material.

Thankfully, if what Krevan says is true, this is happening with greater frequency, so maybe later on down the road, you can thank the military for cleaning its ranks of those who don't deserve to stand among them and clearing its name. Making excuses for these idiots who probably haven't even seen real fighting is one of the most inane things I've ever heard.


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> I would post a pic of my Colt 45 but I have it locked in the firing range (stupid gun laws)



Not even in a display-type case, huh? Gah...

No offense, but I will never understand how anybody who isn't already would want to be Canadian. Your government's already the overprotective nanny most of us Americans don't want.


----------



## Irreverent (Aug 10, 2009)

Poet said:


> I would post a pic of my Colt 45 but I have it locked in the firing range (stupid gun laws)



As the director of a gun range myself, I find that quite odd.  Its typically a violation of the Firearms Act to store restricted pistols/rifles at a range.  But there are exceptions to every rule and I'd love to know the precedent.  Drop me a PM me the name of the range if you don't mind.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 10, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> As the director of a gun range myself


I thought you were the phone company?


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> These things are happening, and there is no excuse; The jerks who are doing things like that are ruining everything that the good guys like Krevan have been fighting for all this time, just like the Blackwater guys have been doing.
> 
> These guys who do all that stuff, shooting into a street, shooting at civilians, shouting things like "Oh yeah, you just got fucking SMOKED", there's no excuse for that kind of thing in the American military. They aren't heroes - They're immature children, and they need to be caught before they do any real harm, and punished severely when they do, to separate them from the people who _are_ hero material.



Seconded. Well said bro *Knuckle punch*


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## Zseliq (Aug 10, 2009)

I like laser guns like in..Star Wars.


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## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Did you know that all the wars the US has been in, all the people they've killed is of higher number than any other country?



Well, it is obvious that not all of them were civilian deaths, considering that not everyone in the army do dumb shit as described in your videos.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 10, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> I thought you were the phone company?



Didn't you know? He's also our Prime Minister and Governor-General. Those other guys you see in those positions? Figureheads. He's the one in charge. =D

Well, I wish that were so.


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Didn't you know? He's also our Prime Minister and Governor-General. Those other guys you see in those positions? Figureheads. He's the one in charge. =D
> 
> Well, I wish that were so.


Good lord. Y'all're fucked.


----------



## Irreverent (Aug 10, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> I thought you were the phone company?



Ones my day job and ones a hobby....   Its amateur sport. I sit on the Board of a Gun Range and I coach too. 



Runefox said:


> Didn't you know? He's also our Prime Minister and Governor-General. Those other guys you see in those positions? Figureheads. He's the one in charge. =D
> 
> Well, I wish that were so.



You and me both!   Although, Michelle Jean looks better in a dress. 



Rigor Sardonicus said:


> Good lord. Y'all're fucked.



Quite likely!


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 10, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> Ones my day job and ones a hobby....   Its amateur sport. I sit on the Board of a Gun Range and I coach too.


God help anybody who doesn't pay his bill on time.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 10, 2009)

uh, Newf, i would like to start out saying, im going to join the U.S.M.C. and am quite possibly one of the kindest people you could ever meet. now, the Marines that said tracers are caused by the barrel well that is stupid, and if the majority are the stupid ones, why would you belive them about the G-36 or 1911? that seems odd, dosent it. now in wars that the U.S. has existed through, there were these things that became more accurate and easier to produce, i believe the are called firearms, am i mistaken? yes they were around before but were inaccurate so large groups would fire. now on to another part of the death toll, more deadly weapons have been made, from the flintlock, to the SAA, from the Gatling Gun to the Maxim Machine Gun, and with that medical care was far more behind then and it was harder to help from hot searing bits of lead and and missing limbs. now on to the stupidity, i recall hearing that in Vietnam, a Lt. sent his men in to a village to exterminate everyone and threated court marshall and being shot, the destroyed the village and the Lt. was court marshalled. so if the troops did this, then guess what, court marshall. now im trying to be civil about this, but you seem to assume that from a sample of things, its automatic for the rest, now if im wrong ill accept that, but you say you came to the U.S. once in and it was terrible, what about the rest of the U.S.? also the ratio of those vidoes to the amount of U.S. troops overseas, there is quite a difference.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks Rune, we beat the shit out of people that do stupid shit like that stuff in those videos. And if they are a high rank well, we spread the word about what they did and it eventually reaches higher where they then have UCMJ actions taken against them.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> uh, Newf, i would like to start out saying, im going to join the U.S.M.C. and am quite possibly one of the kindest people you could ever meet.


You probably won't get in then...not to be a dick but they like the bad-boys.


> now, the Marines that said tracers are caused by the barrel well that is stupid, and if the majority are the stupid ones, why would you belive them about the G-36 or 1911?


Oh I didn't, they showed me images of them having it over there before I would. Some of them also were using AK's, this was back in like 2003.


> but you say you came to the U.S. once in and it was terrible, what about the rest of the U.S.? also the ratio of those vidoes to the amount of U.S. troops overseas, there is quite a difference.


Yes I came there once, and I know that's not enough to say much; everybody all over the world knows about the US though. You can look at countless videos of the US, news reports, and etc. Just because you're not in a group doesn't mean you don't know anything about it. ;3

You can hear a lot of more stories showing bad leadership and wrongdoings by the US military in Iraq; I have plenty more videos, sure the ratio might still be off but what about the stuff not caught on film or documented? There was several sniper squads caught shooting civilians and this made actual news lines in the US because of the sheer amount of civilians they killed. Yet the orders came from high ranks, place weapons on the field and shoot anybody that goes near them or touches them; apparently this tactic was going on for several years before the cover blew off of it and those involved in the only incident documented were punished, not every squad involved.


Runefox said:


> Odd words from a guy who just spewed a wall of excuses for the incredibly inhumane things that have happened after getting butthurt that maybe someone doesn't like the way things have been/are going down in Iraq. These things are happening, and there is no excuse; The jerks who are doing things like that are ruining everything that the good guys like Krevan have been fighting for all this time, just like the Blackwater guys have been doing.
> 
> These guys who do all that stuff, shooting into a street, shooting at civilians, shouting things like "Oh yeah, you just got fucking SMOKED", there's no excuse for that kind of thing in the American military. They aren't heroes - They're immature children, and they need to be caught before they do any real harm, and punished severely when they do, to separate them from the people who _are_ hero material.
> 
> Thankfully, if what Krevan says is true, this is happening with greater frequency, so maybe later on down the road, you can thank the military for cleaning its ranks of those who don't deserve to stand among them and clearing its name. Making excuses for these idiots who probably haven't even seen real fighting is one of the most inane things I've ever heard.


This is basically what I said, I agree with it of course.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> You probably won't get in then...not to be a dick but they like the bad-boys.
> 
> Oh I didn't, they showed me images of them having it over there before I would. Some of them also were using AK's, this was back in like 2003.
> 
> ...



well, as long as i obey orders, pass the physical and exam, the will, specially wwith JROTC work. also i know that not being in a group dosent mean i dont know anything about it, and the media slanders other countries, they slander othere countries, how things work. by all means i dont want to insult you, bu your coming off as a bit of a dick.


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## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

He will do fine in the military, you dont have to be a bad-boy to be liked or succeed. I'm a big nerd and open about being a furry. You need to know your job and not be a douchebag.

I have seen a few soldiers use AK-47s. Much much much easier to come by, captured quite a few of them in raids. I would much rather use an AK-47 than my M16 but the ones the Iraqis use are straight up duct taped garbage (Save for the IP, they are pretty well funded)

Your view of the US military is still jacked up as ever dude, you may know a lot from the outside. As do I, Ive seen all the videos. But you have zero idea of what its like on the inside and a first hand experience can vouch for a lot more than media. Granted I dont see 75% of the shit going on in the military. I happen to be in one of the most "Gung-ho, loco, ignorant, were the fucking best" units the Army has to offer and incidents such as those depicted in the video are rare and far between.

*Edit for blackfurredfox* 
Yeah man do your job, stay fit. The most important thing a soldier has going for him is his heart. Might sound lame but strength of will has and will carry you through the roughest and hardest times a soldier faces. Keep your head up, dont quit, and follow orders. You will succeed.

I dont think jrotc helps you much from the military's pov but what you take away from it and apply it is where it will pay off.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

My name is Wilson, Wade Wilson. I'm a dick.
Yeah I'm being an asshole, but only toward a group of people involved with horrible, horrible things they shouldn't even be involved with. My bad.


> Your view of the US military is still jacked up as ever dude, you may know a lot from the outside. As do I, Ive seen all the videos. But you have zero idea of what its like on the inside and a first hand experience can vouch for a lot more than media. Granted I dont see 75% of the shit going on in the military. I happen to be in one of the most "Gung-ho, loco, ignorant, were the fucking best" units the Army has to offer and incidents such as those depicted in the video are rare and far between.


Alright, I'm sick of your hypocrisy at this point. I say exactly what rune says, only rune is a little nicer, and you thank and agree with him 100%; you then turn around and call my black, white. Go lay more dollar bill traps for your stupid friends to snag their hands on, again.


----------



## Krevan (Aug 10, 2009)

Your not saying the same thing he is.

Rune is not being a blind ignorant asshole who thinks he knows everything. People like you disgust the fuck out of me. Have you ever served in the military, have you ever been to war? Known the hard work and sacrifices that soldiers make on a daily basis?

I know you dont, because your completely speaking out of your ass like an ignorant pussy that is shit talking the hundreds of thousands men and women that serve this country honorably on a daily basis.

How in the hell could you possibly think that you have a better idea of what really goes on over here than a soldier fighting in this war. Sit the fuck down.

Telling blackfurredfox you dont think hes gonna hack it in the USMC cause he aint a bad boy? Where in the hell do you come up with this shit?

It really take a lot to piss me off and yet you've managed to do it.


----------



## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 10, 2009)

Krevan said:


> Your not saying the same thing he is.
> 
> Rune is not being a blind ignorant asshole who thinks he knows everything. People like you disgust the fuck out of me. Have you ever served in the military, have you ever been to war? Known the hard work and sacrifices that soldiers make on a daily basis?
> 
> I know you dont, because your completely speaking out of your ass like an ignorant pussy that is shit talking the hundreds of thousands men and women that serve this country honorably on a daily basis.


That's what Newf does. Asstalk makes him feel like he isn't the supermassive waste of space that he really is, and is in fact his only marketable skill.

For what it's worth, I don't think you guys are all that bad on the whole. I went to high school with a guy who joined the Army and another who joined the Marines...the former told me that it's mainly the MPs who do dishonorable crap like Abu Ghraib--which is to be expected, if the Stanford Prison Experiment taught us anything. Either way, though, it's really good to hear that you guys don't put up with that sort of thing, because that _is_ something the media neglects to mention.

I'm still not big on the idea of killing for a paycheck, but I'm sure you aren't exactly a fan of fighting for kicks and giggles, so I guess we're even, eh? 

Anyway, here's what I'd like to know:
_*Can FAF ever have a single topic about guns without Newf derailing it?*_
(The answer, tonight at 11.)


----------



## Azure (Aug 10, 2009)

I prefer a gun that shoots. Whatever it is, it'll just have to do. Also, LOL @ the above argument. Newf was in the "militia" Krevan, so he thinks he's all army and shit.  He was even going to be an "officer".  Fucking shitbags.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

It's because you know the military is pathetic as it stands right now, sorry but if you truly believe something is good, no matter what people say about it being otherwise you won't get this pissed off.


> Telling blackfurredfox you dont think hes gonna hack it in the USMC cause he aint a bad boy? Where in the hell do you come up with this shit?


If he is the timid person he's saying he is he won't make it. They don't want timid, either that changes or he doesn't get in. I'd prefer he doesn't get in rather than being changed mentally.


> I know you dont, because your completely speaking out of your ass like an ignorant pussy that is shit talking the hundreds of thousands men and women that serve this country honorably on a daily basis.


If talking out of my ass is providing proof then I'm guilty as charged, unlike several US soldiers; har har har see what I did there? US soldiers going on court marshal for killing innocents have gotten off without charges.


> People like you disgust the fuck out of me. Have you ever served in the military, have you ever been to war? Known the hard work and sacrifices that soldiers make on a daily basis?


Oh yes, because if I'm not in the military I don't have rights to talk about it or gain knowledge through other means, even if I know a -lot- about it, unless I join this super-force I can't badmouth it. So what you're saying is, I have to join a group to learn about it...something I've already discussed as being a flawed argument, one that's used as a "you can't possibly understand so you must be wrong" card. I assume you want me to silence myself on this matter now too; you don't want to hear about the negative things going on around you while you choose to turn a blind eye. You can't deny this shit goes on weekly, if not at least monthly. When blackwater was there it was going on almost every time they were tasked to do something, then blackwater was disbanded and all they actually did was change their name and get hired back on again so bad-press wouldn't follow. Who hired them? The US military.

War of 1812, What they did to Cuba, 1841 - McKean Island, 1841 - Samoa, 1840 - Fiji Islands, 1843 â€“ Africa, 1852-53 â€“ Argentina, 1853-54 â€“ Japan, 1854 â€“ China, 1855 â€“ Fiji Islands, 1855 â€“ Uruguay, 1856 â€“ Panama, 1856 â€“ China, 1858 â€“ Fiji Islands, 1859 â€“ Paraguay, 1859 â€“ China, 1864 - Japan, 1867 - Nicaragua, 1867- Formosa (island of Taiwan), 1868 -- Japan, 1873 - Colombia (Bay of Panama), 1894 - Nicaragua, 1894-95 - China, 1896 - Nicaragua, *1898-99 - Samoa (Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States were locked in dispute over who should have control over the Samoan island chain)*, 1899 - Nicaragua, 1899-1913 - Philippine Islands, 1903 â€“ Dominican Republic, 1903-14 â€“ Panama, 1917-22 - Cuba, 1920-22 - *Russia (Siberia) (Marine 's were sent to protect the United States radio station and property on Russian Island, Bay of Vladivostok)*, 1924 - Honduras, 1932 - China, *1941 - Pear Harbor (They caused it by setting up an embargo on Japan, forcing the country into a corner without import or export among other things. Any country with a military like Japan had would of attacked the USA. The US were warned by Japan that a strike was coming that was had commenced, even Australia warned that their long range radar detected a fleet heading toward the US. They wanted to be attacked, to join war)*, *1945-49 Occupation of part of Germany, 1945-55 Occupation of part of Austria, 1945-46 Occupation of part of Italy, 1945-52 Occupation of Japan, 1945-49 Occupation of South Korea, Lets not forget two nukes being dropped on Japan either, they could of detonated them on empty land or water and I've even read of reports that say Japan had surrendered before the nukes were dropped (though I highly doubt those myself), 1955-64 - Vietnam, 1959-60 - The Caribbean, 1959-75 - Vietnam War (does this need explanation? This I consider to be probably one of their largest fuckups, even their reason for going to war was falsified, so was the Korean War but at least they did good there unlike here), 1968 - Laos & Cambodia (U.S. started a secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years), 1970 -- Cambodia Campaign (US troops were ordered into Cambodia to clean out Communist sanctuaries), 1988 - USS Vincennes shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655
, 1991 -- Iraq. Persian Gulf War (don't even need to say anything about this either, just like Vietnam it's a gigantic fuck-up only this time modern style, 2001 - Afghanistan. War in Afghanistan. The War on Terrorism (modern fuckup number two, Present - Iraq (modern fuckup number three)

Other than those in bold (with reason placed near them) the rest are officially labeled "to protect American interests" with not much more information. though granted not all have deaths involved they don't need to be there in the first place. The US is the only country to have a military outpost on almost every major country in the world, too.*


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Yeah I'm being an asshole, but only toward a group of people involved with horrible, horrible things they shouldn't even be involved with. My bad.



What? It is not the Army's goal to go into random cities and shoot everything that moves. The Army's goal is to protect my country, because of guys like Krevan, I am safe at home everyday, why are you so distrustful of the military? They sacrifice a lot to keep us safe and you sit here calling them sick fucks. You should be very grateful of what you have now, because there are people out there selflessly sacrificing themselves everyday just for the sake of your safety.

Seriously, Newf, why say such nasty things about a group that is out there to protect you (More specifically me since I live in the US, but still.)?



NewfDraggie said:


> Go lay more dollar bill traps for your stupid friends to snag their hands on, again.



Well, you get bored on patrol 

It is not as bad as shooting random civilians off the street, though.

So lay off, why do you have to be so mean to Krevan when he is out there sacrificing himself for the sake of the safety of other people?


----------



## Wreth (Aug 10, 2009)

What pisses me off are the ingnorant fuckers who are like ''Lets just nuke the hell out of iraq olololol they are all terrorists'' Sheesh, it's not like we are at war with iraq, we are *allied *with iraq to fight a threat, that yes it comes from their country, but the current authorities in iraq hate the terrorists as much as we do.


----------



## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> What? It is not the Army's goal to go into random cities and shoot everything that moves. The Army's goal is to protect my country, because of guys like Krevan, I am safe at home everyday, why are you so distrustful of the military?


You can't honestly think that your military attacking countries protects you, can you? They haven't defended since...WWII, and even that was their own fault. 9/11 wasn't caused by Iraq, them over there isn't keeping you safe at home everyday. See how Canada isn't attacking countries? See how France and Britain are doing fine without attacking countries and "fighting the war on terror"?


> They sacrifice a lot to keep us safe and you sit here calling them sick fucks.


Not keeping me safe, not keeping you safe; last I heard sacrifice is called suicide if there's no positive outcome. Granted they are helping the Iraqi's now, but I'm saying what they've done -also- over there wasn't needed. I mean, just because they're doing good doesn't mean they can do wrong too.


> You should be very grateful of what you have now, because there are people out there selflessly sacrificing themselves everyday just for the sake of your safety.


Nope, not me.


> Seriously, Newf, why say such nasty things about a group that is out there to protect you (More specifically me since I live in the US, but still.)?


Again, not me at all and not even you.

Do you honestly think Iraqi's will come to your country and attack you? Even if they did I'm fairly certain having the military on defensive mode only would protect against all attacks.


> Well, you get bored on patrol
> 
> It is not as bad as shooting random civilians off the street, though.


Oh of course, I know that.


> So lay off, why do you have to be so mean to Krevan when he is out there sacrificing himself for the sake of the safety of other people?


I've said he was a good soldier, but the more he talks the more I'm thinking I should take that back. No competent soldier would get this red-faced and aggressive for no reason, especially when somebody compliments them for their good work.

Edit: I'm an asshole, but only because I tell it like it is, without bias. Sorry if I insulted your precious military, but I hear a lot of people in the US insulting -everybody's- military -all the time-, without any proof. So I guess it's even then, no?


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Not keeping you safe



Bullshit, it would be ignorant for me to say that the military isn't keeping me safe.

Soldiers are giving up their lives for my safety (More currently the safety of Iraq but still.) if I said that they weren't keeping me safe, and if that was a fact, those soldiers would be dieing in vain, but they aren't because they are dying for the sake of saving other people's lives.



NewfDraggie said:


> Do you honestly think Iraqi's will come to your country and attack you?



No, not at all. Want to know why? The US Army. If the US's national security was brought down a lot of countries would be after us, not specifically Iraq, a lot of countries have a bone to pick with us.



NewfDraggie said:


> Even if they did I'm fairly certain having the military on defensive mode only would protect against all attacks.



Yes, that is because that is the military's job, to protect the country. And you say that the military's work is useless.



NewfDraggie said:


> I've said he was a good soldier, but the more he talks the more I'm thinking I should take that back. No competent soldier would get this red-faced and aggressive for no reason, especially when somebody compliments them for their good work.



Krevan is mad at you because what you were saying made his work seem practically worthless, and Krevan sacrifices a lot to do his work, so yeah, he will get red faced and aggressive. I bet you would too if you served in Iraq for a whole year.


----------



## Darkwing (Aug 10, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Edit: I'm an asshole, but only because I tell it like it is, *without bias.*



Oh lol. You must be delusional if you say that you tell it like it is without bias.

I actually believe we are both bias here:

I am for the US Military, you are against it, 'nuff said.



NewfDraggie said:


> but I hear a lot of people in the US insulting -everybody's- military -all the time-, without any proof.



What? No? No one in the US is like that, we respect everyone's military because they are giving up their lives for their country.

I am being honest here, in all of my years here in the US, I never heard anybody say anything negative about another country's military. You are obviously listening, and believing in American stereotypes.


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## lilEmber (Aug 10, 2009)

> No, not at all. Want to know why? The US Army. If the US's national security was brought down a lot of countries would be after us, not specifically Iraq, *a lot of countries have a bone to pick with us*.


I wonder why...


> we respect everyone's military because they are giving up their lives for their country.


Uh... "france has never won a war" "france is full of cowards" "canada has no military", just some of the things I've heard among others. I've heard USMC say that even the other tiers of military in their own country were worthless.


> I bet you would too if you served in Iraq for a whole year.


Nope.


> You must be delusional if you say that you tell it like it is without bias.


What bias do I have? Have US troops come and raped my family or something?


> Bullshit, it would be ignorant for me to say that the military isn't keeping me safe.





> Yes, that is because that is the military's job, to protect the country. And you say that the military's work is useless.


You're either not understanding me, or purposely trying to twist what I say; I'm not saying remove the military, no; I'm saying get out of other countries, unless you're asked to come help; with them on defense I'm fairly certain you're getting -more- defense ability rather than lashing out at other countries and y'know, being the world police. The US should stand down and divert power toward the UN so -they- can be the world police this world actually needs. The US shouldn't be in it for fame and glory, war, or any other hidden motive I won't list. If they really wanted to clean up the planet they would submit forces to the United Nations and do it with the UN instead of with the US, where other countries can submit forces and assist equally without involving their home country in direct conflict/war.

Anyway, I'm going to get back on-topic here. If you want to continue this discussion we may do so in PM's, I'll be happy to be civil as well.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Aug 10, 2009)

*HEY, NEWF, KREVAN, AND DARKWING:

What kind of guns do you like?*

Goddamn furries...you know it's bad when _I'm_ telling you to get back on topic...


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## Irreverent (Aug 10, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> *HEY, NEWF, KREVAN, AND DARKWING:
> 
> What kind of guns do you like?*
> 
> Goddamn furries...you know it's bad when _I'm_ telling you to get back on topic...



Yeah....I agree.  Locked due to excessive derailing from all sides.  

Move it to rants if you want a (tasteful) debate on US foreign policy.


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