# A weird trend I've noticed



## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 23, 2019)

I saw a post some time ago that indicated that the majority of furries are straight. I don't remember the exact break down, and it certainly didn't mirror general society, but it also didn't match what I'd expect. Because while the majority may be straight, the majority of the art I see is... not. Particularly in the "adult" category. In fact, just a plain search for "straight" yields 170k results, but "gay" yields 485k results. Now, that just might be because "straight" is technically the default, people don't tag it as frequently, but it still implies some sort of trend.

Alternatively, my own, err, tastes might be heavily biasing my experiences and an objective review would show no such trends, but that's a boring answer.

So I have a few theories:

A.) The use of a fursona lets people explore fantasies that in reality they wouldn't pursue, and that happens to manifest as gay.
B.) People are more likely to commission gay art because society treats straight as default, so this makes a good alternative.
C.) The better artists happen to play to some stereotypes and prefer to do gay art, so their popularity makes it seem like this trend exists.

Anyone else notice this or have opinions?


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## Night.Claw (Dec 23, 2019)

The amount of girls in the fandom is the extreme minority. At least on discord servers and on this forum. I think it's obvious, that there will be a lot less art included.

By my experience, a lot of people gets "turned" into bisexual by the fandom.
Not to mention that almost everyone is drooling over 2 options. Either overly muscular, or femboy. (That's just my observation)

With girls... well muscular looks weird, because it takes away their femin side. So there is little amount.
And girls as femboys... that's obvious.

Those who are actually straight complain about how they have 0 chance on getting a furry girlfriend, so they mostly just stay quiet or never talk about it again.

By discord server percentage at least half or more of the server is bisexual, around 30% or more is homosexual, and there is barely any straight people (based on 6 different servers i'm on).

So i have no idea where is the ""majority"" hiding, but since i started taking part on the onlie comunity of furries, i can clearly state that the online part is bisexual by really high percentage.

I can't tell much about those who take part in irl cons and such, but if the online part is close to 70% or more bisexual or homosexual... i think i can say that posts like that smell of like hunting and and attention seeking...

I can be wrong. This just my opinion.

Almost forgot to mention, that the girls in the fandom also being included in the bisexual/lesbian part  so even less straight.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 23, 2019)

You know, I feel mildly dumb for missing the obvious that just straight up - the majority of furries are in fact male, so I suppose it's hard to make tacos when all you have are sausages.

I'd also agree with folks being "turned" bi. Be interesting to test that. But might be more introspective and personal details than most folks want to share to internet randos. 

Damn, here I thought I found something clever.


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## Night.Claw (Dec 23, 2019)

You can never know how many girls hiding behind male identity.


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Dec 23, 2019)

Best quote I've ever heard on the subject:
"Why are their so many gay people in my _Completely Heterosexual_ fandom?" -some sarcastic guy bashing on burnt furs

And I just... I really want the phrase Completely Heterosexual to become a meme to rival No Homo. uwu


Spoiler: page stretch


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## Night.Claw (Dec 23, 2019)

Slytherin Umbreon said:


> Best quote I've ever heard on the subject:
> "Why are their so many gay people in my _Completely Heterosexual_ fandom?" -some sarcastic guy bashing on burnt furs
> 
> And I just... I really want the phrase Completely Heterosexual to become a meme to rival No Homo. uwu
> ...


There is a girl on the picture.
Your statement has oficially fallen into pieces. :v


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## Slytherin Umbreon (Dec 23, 2019)

Night.Claw said:


> There is a girl on the picture.
> Your statement has oficially fallen into pieces. :v


It was surprisingly hard to find a good picture of suiters being cutsey that also had no suitless girls in the background.
I guess it makes sense, since the biggest place to find furries on display is cons and such.

And I did mention them, so...
No u >:u


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## FluffyShutterbug (Dec 23, 2019)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> I saw a post some time ago that indicated that the majority of furries are straight. I don't remember the exact break down, and it certainly didn't mirror general society, but it also didn't match what I'd expect. Because while the majority may be straight, the majority of the art I see is... not. Particularly in the "adult" category. In fact, just a plain search for "straight" yields 170k results, but "gay" yields 485k results. Now, that just might be because "straight" is technically the default, people don't tag it as frequently, but it still implies some sort of trend.
> 
> Alternatively, my own, err, tastes might be heavily biasing my experiences and an objective review would show no such trends, but that's a boring answer.
> 
> ...


Also, it's because there are a TON of gay furries out there. Myself included. UwU


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## Trevorbluesquirrel (Dec 23, 2019)

I commented on the sexuality research findings in this thread with an informative video!

forums.furaffinity.net: Any Gay/Bi guys out there?


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## puddinsticks (Dec 24, 2019)

I feel like the furry fandom as a whole is super open-minded (I mean, you have to be to be that into cartoon animals right?)
The fandom also is home to many social outcasts and lonely people-the LGBT community is becoming more accepted as time goes on, but there was such heavy discrimination (and still is in many areas).
Maybe that encourages some people to try new things, or come out of the closet?
I haven't looked into sexual orientation vs fandom very closely, but I definitely see predominately gay males, or bisexual males with a masc preference, in the furry fandom.
It's definitely interesting!


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 24, 2019)

One factor I think is often overlooked is that people who lie close to the ends of the sexuality spectrum may be more likely to identify as bi- or pansexual within stereotypically accepting subcultures such as furry fandom, than in the general population. So hetero/homoflexible people whom I'd expect to round off to straight/gay in most circumstances, just... don't. This could artificially(ish) inflate the number of especially bisexual furries.

Also, mandatory disclaimer/caution: None of the furry surveys out there (that I'm aware of) use unbiased sampling methods. Don't take them as gospel.



Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Particularly in the "adult" category. In fact, just a plain search for "straight" yields 170k results, but "gay" yields 485k results. Now, that just might be because "straight" is technically the default, people don't tag it as frequently, but it still implies some sort of trend.


Thing to know about FA's search is that unless you use the field restrictors, it'll include results that have the search term _anywhere_. So a hypothetical post by the hypothetical account (actually, the account may well exist, point is I'm not referring to the actual account if it does) "gay" would show up in the search results for "gay." A submission titled "Be joyful and gay" (referring to Christmastime and the meaning of "happy") would show up in the search results for "gay." A submission with "This character is not gay" in the description would show up in the search results for "gay." Same thing with file names and tags, and obviously the same thing applies for "straight" - point is that FA's search is not great for this sort of statistics.

Turning to e621, since they have mandatory tagging, I went through their tags for a bit of crude statistics:
male/female has 240267 posts
male/male has 174574 posts
female/female has a measly 39418 posts

Now, being a booru type thing, obviously the distribution will be skewed by what users actually upload, and I haven't bothered to include any other combinations, but straight art on e621 does outnumber gay/lesbian art by a margin almost as big as the amount of lesbian art total.

It's also worth noting that what an artist draws doesn't have to mirror their own sexuality. I'm a nominally female, female-presenting enby, female-identified until like 2-3 years ago, and while I'm bisexual, well... me drawing m/m content (possibly more of it than straight content; I haven't checked) doesn't really neatly fit into any notion of artists' work representing themselves. I also draw a pile of kinks that I'm not personally into. It's just art and I like to try new things. 

Another factor is that the more the idea that the fandom is mostly gay males gets circulated, the more artists are likely to try catering to that crowd. Which makes the fandom look even more gay. So it's to some degree a self-perpetuating misconception. Plus, of course, the time-honored tradition of male-attracted women enjoying art of pretty men getting it on.  



Night.Claw said:


> Those who are actually straight complain about how they have 0 chance on getting a furry girlfriend, so they mostly just stay quiet or never talk about it again.


Guaranteeing that they won't find a furry girlfriend, because no one likes to feel like they're whatever scraps remain. 



Night.Claw said:


> The amount of girls in the fandom is the extreme minority. At least on discord servers and on this forum. I think it's obvious, that there will be a lot less art included.


Based on observation and a very small sample size, I suspect female furries are less likely to disclose their sex/gender than male furries. In part because the perception that there's "no female furries" makes them feel vulnerable/isolated. Possibly also in part (well, there's some overlap) because they don't want to get propositioned by the aforementioned "there are no straight female furries I can't get a furry girlfriend" crowd.

When I've gone to meets, the gender distribution has often been closer to even.


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## Axel_is_Crafty (Dec 26, 2019)

Night.Claw said:


> You can never know how many girls hiding behind male identity.



haha,I do that


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 30, 2019)

Coincidentally, I tend to draw more gay stuff than straight... Entirely because I draw male forms better. Boobs are hard to draw, mmkay? 

So, I decided I'd run the same terms on Inkbunny.

Male/Female - 765 Pages of results
Male/Male - 834 Pages of results
Female/Female - 195 Pages of results

So, apparently, Inkbunny is gayer than E621. So, my trend holds true on at least one website, which honestly is probably driven by a handful of popular artists and their not-FA-approved content. In reality, I think the appearance of this trend is more due to gay art filling a niche that doesn't necessarily exist as much elsewhere, making it more saleable. The greater amount of straight art just doesn't drive sales, so you see more of the gay stuff.

Thanks all for, uh, playing?


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## pilgrimfromoblivion (Dec 30, 2019)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Alternatively, my own, err, tastes








       hello there.


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## MaetheDragon (Dec 30, 2019)

I found this trend particularly interesting, as well. So far, throughout my time in this fandom, I have never met another straight female like myself. At least, no one has actively come out as a straight female to me, yet. I’ve only met one other straight male, and I am currently in a relationship with him. He’s super cute, so I took to him very easily!

Then again, I only tend to keep a small group of friends, so who knows? I think people here have already hit the nail on the head, in concerns to why homosexuals tend to have more of a presence here as opposed to the silent majority- this is a place where homosexuality and other less common identities are accepted, giving a comfortable place for those few to express themselves, as they are. Who wouldn’t want to celebrate that? It may force the heterosexual majority to think twice about pursuing relationships in the fandom, but having an environment like this is far more preferable, in my opinion.

LGBT+ folks are incredibly social, and super nice! I wouldn’t trade that for anything, personally.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 30, 2019)

I think I've only met one straight male furry as well. Be funny if it was the same guy.


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## MaetheDragon (Dec 30, 2019)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> I think I've only met one straight male furry as well. Be funny if it was the same guy.



It really would be! At least I know I’m not alone in this, either.


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## KD142000 (Dec 30, 2019)

I think I have a little theory on why it might be? Apologies if this has been said in here before:

I would say the fandom's reputation for being open and accepting is probably the reason it appears that it's more LGBT populated than not. If there's a safe space for a particular group, they tend to flock to it. People feel safer amongst their own kind...and before all the changes socially and legally, it was unsafe for people to be open about them being LGBT in most places. So much so that they'd outright try to suppress it or think they were wrong for feeling that way.

Because it's safe in here and people will actually jump in to protect those who need to be protected, that could be why so many are open about it. Without this fandom...I'd still be wallowing around, pretending I'm straight as an arrow. That could have only ended in tears. So massive thanks to you all for that!

In the outside world, it's possible for people to be verbally or physically abused just for being LGBT. Even though that can happen online, people tend to avoid places where that is common. Makes sense that they'd come here to express themselves fully!

It's also possible for people to express and explore other sides of themselves they may not have known about before, so that's also a factor. Safe space and all, amongst people who won't grab their pitchforks.

(Also, I use LGBT cos...there's so many letters. Doesn't mean that I discount the others, though. I'm just used to writing it that way)

As for why there seems to be more art that's LGBT-focused? I'm not too sure. I have seen lots of heterosexual art and I haven't really thought there'd be an imbalance? Maybe the heterosexual side of the fandom is quieter cos they don't need to express themselves as much? Heterosexuality is considered normal the world over, so...they can always be in a safe space (of course, there's other factors like race and religion that people can be judged and even attacked for...so it's not safe everywhere).

I love all fandom members exactly the same! Though, I do think I should probably get some more straight friends! My Discord might just explode in a rainbow blast if I add any more LGBT peeps!

I think @puddinsticks said something along the same lines as this :3


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 30, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> I found this trend particularly interesting, as well. So far, throughout my time in this fandom, I have never met another straight female like myself. At least, no one has actively come out as a straight female to me, yet. I’ve only met one other straight male, and I am currently in a relationship with him. He’s super cute, so I took to him very easily!


I have known at least one straight female artist, probably more (I just can't recall whether the others have explicitly said as much or have just been in straight-passing relationships), and both straight and effectively-straight (bisexual with trauma, so not comfortable pursuing m/m relationships) guys. But I've also been in furry fandom roughly since you were born. 

I think it depends on what circles you move in. Queer folks tend to have disproportionately many queer folks in their circles, in my experience, so if you are the token straight person in your circle of friends, your chances of meeting more straight people through those friends are likely a bit lower than your chances of meeting more straight people through your straight friends.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 30, 2019)

Regarding the OP, what about the possibility that some furries who self-report as straight are actually latent homosexuals who haven't admitted their sexuality to themselves yet?


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 30, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> Regarding the OP, what about the possibility that some furries who self-report as straight are actually latent homosexuals who haven't admitted their sexuality to themselves yet?



Potentially, though there's also a chance they could be more or less straight, but enjoy gay art. Then again, the fandom does tend to help people realize their real preferences.


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## MaelstromEyre (Dec 30, 2019)

I am a heterosexual female, my sona is also a heterosexual female, so I'm way way down in the minority and I am totally okay with that as long as people are respectful.
Unfortunately, I have met quiet a few who are not, who try to "convert" me or convince me that there's no way I'm really straight, that you can't be straight and female and a furry, etc.
I've also had straight guys in the fandom assume that because I am straight and female, I want to talk to them about adult topics.
Again, no.
I am in a long term committed relationship and I don't see the fandom as a singles' club.


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## Lyrule (Dec 31, 2019)

As a heterosexual female, I... Stay mostly hidden because I get unwanted attention from males.  That being said, I do pop in and say something every now and then on forums and such. There are some good people here that are pleasant to converse with.


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## Sir Thaikard (Dec 31, 2019)

There are no females on the internet. Just guys pretending to be girls and the internet police.

You can't fool me, I'm onto you.


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## Lyrule (Dec 31, 2019)

Sir Thaikard said:


> There are no females on the internet. Just guys pretending to be girls and the internet police.
> 
> You can't fool me, I'm onto you.


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## KiokuChan (Jan 1, 2020)

MCtheBeardie said:


> So far, throughout my time in this fandom, I have never met another straight female like myself.


I might be. I have no solid idea what orientation I am honestly. I guess that makes me at least some degree of ace probably. I don't want to be with anyone anyway though. I want to be my kitsune self and also see everyone else's cute animal characters.


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## Minerva_Minx (Jan 1, 2020)

I don't know on other women.  probably seen more on this thread than others.

More lesbians than straight?


quoting_mungo said:


> I think it depends on what circles you move in. Queer folks tend to have disproportionately many queer folks in their circles, in my experience, so if you are the token straight person in your circle of friends, your chances of meeting more straight people through those friends are likely a bit lower than your chances of meeting more straight people through your straight friends.


I can see that, but I can also see confirmation bias playing into it.

Now, about keeping a lower profile - I think that is a reasonable thought.  I know some of the art of women is either completely ludicrous proportions or so cringy (rape, vore, exaggerated genitals) it makes me think twice on some people.  Faced with that, it may be easier to just be quiet and ignore.


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## Filter (Jan 1, 2020)

Here's how it happened:

1. Straight guys started drawing female furry pinups
2. Women criticized the straight guys for perpetuating the "male gaze", and left
3. Gay guys misheard their criticism as "male gays", and invited their friends




I keed!


For what it's worth, I'm here because I like furries. Not to find romance. I can totally appreciate hiding behind an avatar, and not bringing one's gender or orientation into the picture. Whether it's female furs who'd rather not be hit on, or straight guys who wouldn't want to rain on anybody's (pride) parade. You all are fellow fans to me, brought together by a common interest, not romantic prospects.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jan 1, 2020)

The lower profile thing is interesting to me. I never directed much attention to it and have yet to meet any people who fall under the "clingy/uncomfortable/too sexual kind of guy"- category.
That being said, I don't visit larger roleplay servers and rather do that in small circles, my sona isn't exactly the definition of a pin up girl and I generally have no nsfw art of her. Perhaps my natural lameness in the eyes of a furry is my saving grace.

I can definitely relate to things @Minerva_Minx mentioned. Some of the Art out there is just... Weird. And makes me want to avoid the subject with certain people altogether.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 1, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> The lower profile thing is interesting to me. I never directed much attention to it and have yet to meet any people who fall under the "clingy/uncomfortable/too sexual kind of guy"- category.


I personally have run into these people in RL more than online, but that's probably chance as much as anything else. (No, srsly, there was one guy who asked if he'd have had a chance if I'd never met my now-husband (then fiancé). Yeesh, dude.) That, and I'm not comfortable being assertive with people at the best of times. Face to face with someone I don't know well is... very much not the best of times. 



Minerva_Minx said:


> I can see that, but I can also see confirmation bias playing into it.


Confirmation bias is definitely a likely contributor. Sometimes it seems like some of the "in absence of information to the contrary" assumptions we make in society are also turned backwards in some ways in fandom. Like... That single guy in your office? Until told otherwise, chances are most people will just default to assuming he's looking for a girlfriend. Which is completely reasonable and statistically most likely. Run into a single fur? It seems like a lot of people default to assuming he's gay or at _least_ interested in men. (Bi erasure does in my experience exist in fandom, but it's... weird. Not in the same form as most other spaces.)

Not saying we should necessarily assume strangers are straight until told otherwise, more that it's a bit weird that many furries seem to have all the way to the other end of the spectrum.


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## KiokuChan (Jan 1, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> The lower profile thing is interesting to me. I never directed much attention to it and have yet to meet any people who fall under the "clingy/uncomfortable/too sexual kind of guy"- category.
> That being said, I don't visit larger roleplay servers and rather do that in small circles, my sona isn't exactly the definition of a pin up girl and I generally have no nsfw art of her. Perhaps my natural lameness in the eyes of a furry is my saving grace.
> 
> I can definitely relate to things @Minerva_Minx mentioned. Some of the Art out there is just... Weird. And makes me want to avoid the subject with certain people altogether.


I don't think you're lame and your sona is adorable and cool : )


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## Minerva_Minx (Jan 1, 2020)

@quoting_mungo not being assertive?  Outrage!  Scandal!  Also, I think aggressive was better word choice.  You are most definitely assertive!  

@ClumsyWitch, please don't belittle yourself.  You are exceptionally beautiful and pin up material if you want to be!

(Sorry hun, if you're reading this!  I will find the stretch rack and assume submissive stance for punishment.)

(So worth it.)

Aileana's life remaining: 10 minutes, 20 if wife stops for groceries


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 1, 2020)

Minerva_Minx said:


> @quoting_mungo not being assertive? Outrage! Scandal! Also, I think aggressive was better word choice. You are most definitely assertive!


Ahaha nooo. I'm a people-pleaser; husband has previously described me as "pathologically nice." The only reason I'm as assertive as I am on these forums is because I used to be on staff, so they sort of became associated with taking only so much nonsense. I only barely let myself be convinced to contact the seller when a ~$10 item was missing from an online order, this last fall - boyfriend was kinda cross with me since he was the one who had to convince me.

_Particularly_ in person, when people push, I take a step back. And while social anxiety is part of that, it's not all of it. It's landed me in awkward as hell situations before, not least at cons.


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## driftingdragon (Jan 1, 2020)

Hello there and happy holidays/new year *belated* Ziggy! 

You've raised a damn good question. One I myself have been thinking about for many years now. 

From what I've come to realize is the most boring answer maybe THE answer, which is: The community is so LARGE and VAST that there are too many variables to moderate. So honestly that actually opens the door for several more specific questions that'd help at least get a better idea of these 'scattered trends' 

For example, I can imagine a large community of other subcultures that are almost parallel to furries, yet not all the people who are 'furries' in a traditional sense (Partakes in anthropomorphic cultural content) don't identify as a member of the furry fandom. Probably due to not knowing, or having bad experiences. Which may also shift the sexuality/gender demographics of who considers themselves as a furry. 

ALSO REMEMBER! There is a market of heterosexual females out there who exclusively consume homosexual male content just cause they like guys just as much as gay guys like guys. 

It shocks me about the lack of lesbian content though, mainly because there's supposedly a market for lesbian content among heterosexual males, as well as straight content, etc. 

There's a large number of people within one sexuality that'd consume content of another, which also makes these demographics even harder to track. :C

But even more fun to discuss and think about! C:

~Drift


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## Purplefuzz (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Unfortunately, I have met quiet a few who are not, who try to "convert" me or convince me that there's no way I'm really straight, that you can't be straight and female and a furry, etc.



That happens to anyone the furry meme sub had the mods step in when those types got out of hand and hostile about it. Yes they got the no stright furs meme banned there due to complaints.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 2, 2020)

Lyrule said:


> As a heterosexual female, I... Stay mostly hidden because I get unwanted attention from males.  That being said, I do pop in and say something every now and then on forums and such. There are some good people here that are pleasant to converse with.



If there are lots of women who would be interested in the furry fandom, but don't find the online spaces inviting, do you think there are any simple changes that could be made to make these spaces less alienating, or do you think we need a big sea-change to the online culture?


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## ConorHyena (Jan 2, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> If there are lots of women who would be interested in the furry fandom, but don't find the online spaces inviting, do you think there are any simple changes that could be made to make these spaces less alienating, or do you think we need a big sea-change to the online culture?



I'd go with the change of online culture. I've been on servers mostly consisting of heterosexual males and... god.

Their attitudes towards women is hardly gentlemanly.


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## Skittles (Jan 2, 2020)

Huh. Never really thought about it until I read this.

There does seem to be a majority of sorts going on here in terms of straight/gay/Bi.

Personally I did consider myself straight when I joined the fandom. But the openess and acceptance of the community made me realise I had actually been repressing a large chunk of myself for years for reasons I don't really want to chat about. ^^
So now I ID as Bi/Pan. I don't openly talk about sex and nsfw explicitly though. It just seems rude to push such things on others without consent.



ConorHyena said:


> I'd go with the change of online culture. I've been on servers mostly consisting of heterosexual males and... god.
> 
> Their attitudes towards women is hardly gentlemanly.



Usually the "Who's got the biggest epeen" crowd I guess? I hate those.



ClumsyWitch said:


> The lower profile thing is interesting to me. I never directed much attention to it and have yet to meet any people who fall under the "clingy/uncomfortable/too sexual kind of guy"- category.
> That being said, I don't visit larger roleplay servers and rather do that in small circles, my sona isn't exactly the definition of a pin up girl and I generally have no nsfw art of her. Perhaps my natural lameness in the eyes of a furry is my saving grace.
> 
> I can definitely relate to things @Minerva_Minx mentioned. Some of the Art out there is just... Weird. And makes me want to avoid the subject with certain people altogether.



You get a boop! Fenja is a beautiful Sona. Don't be so dismissive xP Lame my paw..


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## SwiftDog (Jan 2, 2020)

Furry is just a gay sex cult. Change my mind


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## Minerva_Minx (Jan 2, 2020)

Why don't more women express themselves in the fandom?



SwiftDog said:


> Furry is just a gay sex cult. Change my mind



This.  This exact reason.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 2, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Furry is just a gay sex cult. Change my mind



:S It's the best gay sex cult I tells ya.


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## Night.Claw (Jan 2, 2020)

SwiftDog said:


> Furry is just a gay sex cult. Change my mind


I would say you're wrong, but... the fact is, that you're almost right.


Fallowfox said:


> :S It's the best gay sex cult I tells ya.


Same goes here.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 2, 2020)

We want our cult to be more inclusive so that we can assimilate the remainder of humanity and move onto phase 2 by the way.


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## SwiftDog (Jan 2, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> We want our cult to be more inclusive so that we can assimilate the remainder of humanity and move onto phase 2 by the way.



Population control, the sexy way


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## MaelstromEyre (Jan 2, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> If there are lots of women who would be interested in the furry fandom, but don't find the online spaces inviting, do you think there are any simple changes that could be made to make these spaces less alienating, or do you think we need a big sea-change to the online culture?



I have been giving thought to creating a chat - maybe Telegram, maybe Discord, specifically for women of the fandom.

I get that some women like the fandom as a way of expressing their sexuality, their playfulness and maybe live out some of their kinks and fantasies, and I think that's great for them.

I have also encountered some pretty disturbing mentalities among some of the straight guys in the fandom.

I have had my own encounters, online, with guys in the fandom who think "straight female = she wants me."  

When I see someone's art is entirely based around sex, especially "forced" fantasies, I am wary.  When a guy literally copied my avatar on Second Life and made his own version of me, just to use it as a "sex toy" for his own avatar, it spoke volumes about the mentality of some of the people in the fandom, and that's a segment of the fandom I will not involve myself in.


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## Skittles (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> I have been giving thought to creating a chat - maybe Telegram, maybe Discord, specifically for women of the fandom.
> 
> I get that some women like the fandom as a way of expressing their sexuality, their playfulness and maybe live out some of their kinks and fantasies, and I think that's great for them.
> 
> ...




O_O Wow.. That is pretty messed up. The server idea isn't a bad idea though. Creates a nice space free of testosterone and what not. ^^


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> I have been giving thought to creating a chat - maybe Telegram, maybe Discord, specifically for women of the fandom.
> 
> I get that some women like the fandom as a way of expressing their sexuality, their playfulness and maybe live out some of their kinks and fantasies, and I think that's great for them.
> 
> ...


Just don't let it turn into a man hating spree.


----------



## Night.Claw (Jan 2, 2020)

This thread quickly turned into "burn the straight" quickly.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 2, 2020)

Night.Claw said:


> This thread quickly turned into "burn the straight" quickly.


I don't see what you're seeing


----------



## Night.Claw (Jan 2, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I don't see what you're seeing


A joke that is around in the fandom for.. years? Gay is the only way? You saw it several times before, i'm sure of it.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Jan 2, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Just don't let it turn into a man hating spree.


 
That's not the intent.  Is "woman-bashing" common in male-only furry chats?

It would simply be a place where women in the fandom could chat, potentially about sensitive topics that could apply within the fandom, like safety at meetups or cons, etc.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Jan 2, 2020)

Night.Claw said:


> A joke that is around in the fandom for.. years? Gay is the only way? You saw it several times before, i'm sure of it.


 I guess I don't run in those circles.

The furries I know are a mixed group, and it's not a defining part of our relationships.


----------



## Night.Claw (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> I guess I don't run in those circles.
> 
> The furries I know are a mixed group, and it's not a defining part of our relationships.


Wrong time to do a weird joke it seems.
I apoligize.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 2, 2020)

Night.Claw said:


> A joke that is around in the fandom for.. years? Gay is the only way? You saw it several times before, i'm sure of it.


Saying the fandom is gay is far from burn the straights.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> That's not the intent.  Is "woman-bashing" common in male-only furry chats?
> 
> It would simply be a place where women in the fandom could chat, potentially about sensitive topics that could apply within the fandom, like safety at meetups or cons, etc.


I'm not in only male chats because I think all places should be inclusive.


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## Minerva_Minx (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> I have been giving thought to creating a chat - maybe Telegram, maybe Discord, specifically for women of the fandom.
> 
> I get that some women like the fandom as a way of expressing their sexuality, their playfulness and maybe live out some of their kinks and fantasies, and I think that's great for them.
> 
> ...


It is intriguing.  I would be interested.



Ovi the Dragon said:


> Just don't let it turn into a man hating spree.


*facepalms herself*


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 2, 2020)

Lets go back to everyone pretending to be straight and having no idea where all this gay art comes from because we totally don't look for it at all.  I think @Night.Claw  made a joke that fell flat and there's no need to beat them up over it.


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## Night.Claw (Jan 2, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Lets go back to everyone pretending to be straight and having no idea where all this gay art comes from because we totally don't look for it at all.  I think @Night.Claw  made a joke that fell flat and there's no need to beat them up over it.


I appologize again. Wrong time try joke.

On thread, i think the best answers already went down. 
I stated my opinion before, but i have to agree with (can't remember who said it) gay art = easier money. I looked around a bit and... Most of the straight people i see (2 servers i'm on, both higher then 300 "active" members(3-4000 total members) like to commission more SFW art than NSFW. So i would say, maybe people who's not heterosexual like to see art about their characters in a NSFW art? Not sure, i can be wrong.


----------



## MosquitoBeest (Jan 2, 2020)

From another straight woman, I would totally be down for a Discord server!


----------



## Skittles (Jan 2, 2020)

Orite.. My fiance is a straight furry.. Should of mentioned that hehe x3


----------



## ConorHyena (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> That's not the intent.  Is "woman-bashing" common in male-only furry chats?
> 
> It would simply be a place where women in the fandom could chat, potentially about sensitive topics that could apply within the fandom, like safety at meetups or cons, etc.



Yes, it is. Like I said, I've been in a few that were women free (for topic reasons) and that usually devolved into either hate the women or hate the gays.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 2, 2020)

*Posts wondering why gay art seems to eclipses everything else* *Gets a straight-woman-dedicated discord channel created*
Apparently there's a demand, so sure. Though I'm curious how you'll police it...

@Night.Claw - I kinda touched on that earlier, it's possible more of the popular NSFW stuff is gay, and that's because straight NSFW is easier to find elsewhere.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Jan 2, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> I have had my own encounters, online, with guys in the fandom who think "straight female = she wants me."


To be fair, that's a lot of guys in their late teens/early twenties in general. Actually, a good portion of _people_ that age. Which isn't to say it isn't a problem; I just don't think it's a fandom-specific problem. A good chunk of it is probably that we (society/social groups) do very little to have conversations about appropriate interactions, and when that gets crossed with a perceived sexually permissive space (be that furry fandom, the kink scene, night clubs, or some other space) there isn't a lot of groundwork in place to let people make good decisions.



ConorHyena said:


> Yes, it is. Like I said, I've been in a few that were women free (for topic reasons) and that usually devolved into either hate the women or hate the gays.


Obviously I wouldn't have first-hand experience of spaces with an exclusively male userbase (by design or not), but the observations I've made of predominantly male-dominated spaces, being someone who's generally a lot more comfortable as "one of the guys" than dealing with chick cliques (not saying all women are cliquey, but I couldn't think of a good word and this at least sounded snappy), is that what a lot of women perceive as hostile is mostly crude banter.

Which no one is obligated to be comfortable with. And I don't doubt that it can degenerate into hostility. More the point is that many women find it intimidating, which can make it hard to create spaces where everyone can feel comfortable (as understandably, if that's the sort of banter you're used to, avoiding it is going to feel a bit like you're walking on eggshells). I personally give as good as I get, and back when I was in a WoW guild with a bunch of guys (and some gals, whose boundaries were generally respected, in that the banter would not be directed at them and would be toned down when they were online), I had a standard response to being told "you suck" of "I swallow." If anything, that made the guys slightly uncomfortable/taken aback, if only for a moment, because men aren't used to women saying such things or owning their sexuality in such a manner.

Female-dominated spaces can definitely get just as toxic, even if the exact form it takes tends to be slightly different.

--------------------

I don't know; I suspect a lot of it could be a difference in styles of communication, and that obviously helps no one in the long run. Pair that with culture that generally teaches women to always look out for danger, and you get a situation where many women are hesitant to show any signs of sexuality for fear of inviting male sexuality into their spaces. ("Their space" here being used to refer to, basically, things like one's profile and content on sites like FA as well as social media.) If drawing sexy pin-ups of your fursona makes people make creepy comments that make you uncomfortable, you're not going to keep doing that.


----------



## Minerva_Minx (Jan 2, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> *Posts wondering why gay art seems to eclipses everything else* *Gets a straight-woman-dedicated discord channel created*
> Apparently there's a demand, so sure. Though I'm curious how you'll police it...
> 
> @Night.Claw - I kinda touched on that earlier, it's possible more of the popular NSFW stuff is gay, and that's because straight NSFW is easier to find elsewhere.


I wouldn't draw that as a negative, but maybe being female gives me a different perspective.  I honestly can't tell if the comment on policing is cynical, sarcastic, derogatory, amusement, or genuine curiosity.

E621 seems to have more "heterosexual" art than FA, so I would definitely agree that the preponderance of young males on FA and in the community seem to be the driving factor.

I usually step back and do an 80/20 check, and in this case I would say it's likely down the middle on NSFW gay and straight art.

For lesbian art, I would say -Full HD.  what most people know of lesbians is straight from porn geared towards guys.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 2, 2020)

Minerva_Minx said:


> I wouldn't draw that as a negative, but maybe being female gives me a different perspective.  I honestly can't tell if the comment on policing is cynical, sarcastic, derogatory, amusement, or genuine curiosity.


The discord channel is a weird result of this thread, I wanted to comment on that. Regarding policing, it seemed "straight women gathering area" would somehow attract everyone you don't want. So it was a genuine curiosity thing. I come from a number of male dominated things thatare all trying to attract more women with dedicated things/events, but all are in person, so it weeds out the problems automatically. Some interesting parallels here that would take a massive wall of text to start getting at.

Edit: To be explicit - I have no issue with the channel and think you should do it.


----------



## Night.Claw (Jan 2, 2020)

Minerva_Minx said:


> I wouldn't draw that as a negative, but maybe being female gives me a different perspective.  I honestly can't tell if the comment on policing is cynical, sarcastic, derogatory, amusement, or genuine curiosity.
> 
> E621 seems to have more "heterosexual" art than FA, so I would definitely agree that the preponderance of young males on FA and in the community seem to be the driving factor.
> 
> ...


I think he meant more like that common issue with servers. How do you police/monitor who is the person behind who joined? So not sarcasm, just actual curiousity, of how will you make sure, that the person who joins actually female and not other? Because i think that's some fricking hard stuff to do, if you won't just lean on trust.


----------



## SwiftDog (Jan 3, 2020)

I'm a straight male. When I became a furry, all I found was dick. Dick dick dicks. *Trump voice* So many dicks, it's amazing, they're YUGE, and mine is-

Yeah okay, never mind, but you get the picture. I've never been so gay in my life!


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## Lyrule (Jan 3, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> *Posts wondering why gay art seems to eclipses everything else* *Gets a straight-woman-dedicated discord channel created*



Lmao, it be like that sometimes.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Jan 4, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> To be fair, that's a lot of guys in their late teens/early twenties in general. Actually, a good portion of _people_ that age. Which isn't to say it isn't a problem; I just don't think it's a fandom-specific problem. A good chunk of it is probably that we (society/social groups) do very little to have conversations about appropriate interactions, and when that gets crossed with a perceived sexually permissive space (be that furry fandom, the kink scene, night clubs, or some other space) there isn't a lot of groundwork in place to let people make good decisions.


It's not limited to the fandom, that's for certain. 

It's more that fandom demographics seem to show a significantly higher percentage of men, whether straight or gay or bi, compared to women.

Not meant to discourage or segregate the sexes, I love the interactions I have with guys in the fandom.

I've found most are perfectly capable of conversation that doesn't involve being flirty or trying to initiate a relationship, which is great because that's not happening.

Then there are the ones with whom a conversation goes like:
Them: Hi
Me: Hiya
Them: how r u
Me: Doing okay, and yourself?
Them:  u r hot
Me: Thanks
Them: What I want to say is that I really admire you and your character and I know you may be busy or even have a boyfriend but I think we have a lot in common and I'd like to get to know you better, can I add you as a friend because I think we'd really get along.
Me:. . .
Them: ((sends dick pic))

I swear we need, like, a basic etiquette course in the fandom for initiating conversation, and how NOT to try to escalate things.


----------



## Inkstars (Jan 6, 2020)

It's funny though because in my experience, there are TONS of female furry artists (when I used to go to FWA I met a *lot*, as well as the one time I want to RMFC when it was still a thing), and 98% of the furries I've come across are definitely NOT straight. They may seem to present as straight because they're in a hetero-appearing relationship, but if you saw me with my husband you would assume I'm straight. I am not. I also am with a lady, and I myself am non-binary. So be aware that just because a furry LOOKS straight doesn't mean they are.

[Still cackling over sweating pepe though!]


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## Inkstars (Jan 6, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> It's not limited to the fandom, that's for certain.
> 
> It's more that fandom demographics seem to show a significantly higher percentage of men, whether straight or gay or bi, compared to women.
> 
> ...



We need this basic etiquette course outside the fandom too! This happens on dating apps, friend apps, and in forums all over the place. It's nuts. But I completely agree, course needed whew.


----------



## Deleted member 132067 (Jan 6, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> That's not the intent.  Is "woman-bashing" common in male-only furry chats?


Happened twice in the currently active gay thread, take out of that what you will.
Anyway, while I don't know if I have the time and resources to be active in another chat, I do support your idea. Why not?


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 6, 2020)

Inkstars said:


> We need this basic etiquette course outside the fandom too! This happens on dating apps, friend apps, and in forums all over the place. It's nuts. But I completely agree, course needed whew.


It's my opinion that the underlying idea of Swedish Sex Ed (name of the subject would roughly translated be something like Sex and Coexistence) is something that should be expanded upon and implemented in all schools, starting from an early age (keeping, of course, the actual material age appropriate). When I went to High School in Iowa, back in the mid-00's, there was an IIRC mandatory subject (being an exchange student, slotted into senior year, a lot of "this is a mandatory subject" didn't apply to me) called Perspectives on Life that was sort of leaning in that direction.

But I do think it's something that needs to be caught fairly early to be truly effective. Educating people who're older will, of course, help, but it's going to be a bumpier ride than just getting started earlier. 



Inkstars said:


> It's funny though because in my experience, there are TONS of female furry artists (when I used to go to FWA I met a *lot*, as well as the one time I want to RMFC when it was still a thing), and 98% of the furries I've come across are definitely NOT straight. They may seem to present as straight because they're in a hetero-appearing relationship, but if you saw me with my husband you would assume I'm straight. I am not. I also am with a lady, and I myself am non-binary. So be aware that just because a furry LOOKS straight doesn't mean they are.


That's more or less my experience as well. I know/used to know/know of a number of female furries in straight-passing relationships, I know one of them is definitely straight, and a few more I _think_ are but can't 100% recall for sure whether I've seen them explicitly say so. I _have_ seen a good number of straight or straight-adjacent furries, who were a significant portion of the communities they were in, but I think many straight people are... less vocal about it? Not in the sense that I'm saying non-straight people are oversharing or anything, more something similar to how most cis people don't go out of their way to note their gender and preferred pronouns to people outside of very specific contexts. It's something we're socially conditioned to think of as default, it's something _statistically_ more likely to be true than not for any random person you pick off the streets, so making a point of it is likely to subconsciously feel superfluous.

Within fandom, I feel like people noting they're straight mostly happens in discussions about sexuality such as this one, or when people are single and looking. Otherwise, they might _at most_ stick a "straight" icon on their profiles and call it a day.


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## Inkstars (Jan 8, 2020)

Yeah. Sometimes I think we should make it more commonplace for everyone to just pop down their orientation and pronouns because it would normalize the use of them (especially pronouns) and then it wouldn't seem like such a big deal otherwise. The downside is some people think that stuff is private and I absolutely believe they shouldn't be required to share either.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 8, 2020)

For what it's worth - I'm in a straight relationship as well, as a guy. But I'd never ID as such. So it's not just women. However, regarding the dick pics, I can offer a bit of an explanation, and it also helps explain the prevalence of gay art. 

So, the random dick pics that many guys seem to lead with do actually have a purpose. Generally speaking - guys are desexualized in media and culture. Think about it - very few mainstream movies have male characters who's sole purpose is to be hot. I mean, most are conventionally attractive, but it's not their sole feature. They're remembered for what they did, not how hot they were. Women, however, their central role is still basically to be eye candy. I hate to say it, but Black Widow never really contributed much in most of the Avengers movies beyond, uh, existing? And wearing a cat suit? 

But, beyond that - there's an expectation still that guys are breadwinners. To a certain degree that's biology - guys are sorta programmed to be the hunters/fighters/defenders. But society still reinforces it. Basically, we keep telling guys that they're really only worth their paycheck. And they see women seeming to get whatever they want because they're pretty, regardless of what they contribute. But men have to contribute to be worth anything.

This is where the dick pick comes in. By sending it, _regardless of the response_, men have entirely divorced themselves from what their job is or how much they make. They've reduced themselves to their dick, which is about as sexualized as they can be. No face. No money. Just their dick. That the response is rarely positive doesn't matter. By sticking it out their, they've managed to turn themselves into sex object, which is a new experience. Basically, women are in an ocean of sexualization - they don't need a drink of water. Men, on the other hand, are in a desert and will do anything for a drink. That the guys who tend to send dick pics unprovoked are probably not otherwise attractive supports this - they're not likely to get objectified for their face, after all. 

So, the moral of the story, really, is if you want to reduce dick pics, objectify men more. 

Which brings me back to OP - gay art really does turn men into sex objects. Well, the adult stuff anyhow. And that could very well be a part of the appeal. Guys get to see themselves in a context they don't really get to see in society. So, naturally, that's going to drive popularity. Of course, I doubt this is anything conscious.


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## TheCynicalViet (Jan 8, 2020)

This forum thread got derailed into a really interesting discussion. Anyways, back to what OP was asking, I believe that it's just a coincidence within the community. Gay art outnumbers straight art (in E621, as he pointed out, at least) and there really might be no underlying reason for that. Sometimes things happen because they happen. Better to not ask questions and to stop thinking about stuff to avoid any unnecessary headaches.

Besides, gay porn is better than straight porn so why complain? Men are more inherently beautiful, not to sound gay though. I mean, why would you want to see a bland women when you could see two men in an intense passion. Again, not to sound gay.

EDIT: Forgot to add that despite being a heterosexual, I tend to watch some homosexual relations from time to time. Cant stress this enough, I'm not gay. Sometimes, I end up watching more gay porn than straight porn but that has no bearing on my homosexuality - I mean sexuality. I'm not gay.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 8, 2020)

TheCynicalViet said:


> This forum thread got derailed into a really interesting discussion. Anyways, back to what OP was asking, I believe that it's just a coincidence within the community. Gay art outnumbers straight art (in E621, as he pointed out, at least) and there really might be no underlying reason for that. Sometimes things happen because they happen. Better to not ask questions and to stop thinking about stuff to avoid any unnecessary headaches.
> 
> Besides, gay porn is better than straight porn so why complain? Men are more inherently beautiful, not to sound gay though. I mean, why would you want to see a bland women when you could see two men in an intense passion. Again, not to sound gay.
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to add that despite being a heterosexual, I tend to watch some homosexual relations from time to time. Cant stress this enough, I'm not gay. Sometimes, I end up watching more gay porn than straight porn but that has no bearing on my homosexuality - I mean sexuality. I'm not gay.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 9, 2020)

TheCynicalViet said:


> Gay art outnumbers straight art (in E621, as he pointed out, at least)


Um, no? I posted specific stats from e621 showing straight art outnumbers gay art by a significant margin. What OP mentioned was the FA search results, which have a number of potential error sources because of the way the search engine works and because tagging isn’t mandatory.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 9, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> Um, no? I posted specific stats from e621 showing straight art outnumbers gay art by a significant margin. What OP mentioned was the FA search results, which have a number of potential error sources because of the way the search engine works and because tagging isn’t mandatory.



In any case I suppose it is true to say that homosexuality is over-represented in the furry community, compared to the regular population. 
We might expect it to represent 1-6% of furries, but we spend our time debating whether the majority of furries are gay.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 10, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> In any case I suppose it is true to say that homosexuality is over-represented in the furry community, compared to the regular population.
> We might expect it to represent 1-6% of furries, but we spend our time debating whether the majority of furries are gay.


Overrepresented, definitely.

I think in terms of work produced, a lot of fandoms tend to see a marked increase in representation of homosexuality (and possibly queer identities in general) compared to the prevalence in general population. Some of that may owe to, as others in this thread have brushed up on, creating the content not already readily at hand. If there’s sod-all representation in the canon, chances are fanwork will play with it anyway, whether that’s by making Harry Potter gay for Malfoy or writing Gazelle from Zootopia as trans* or whatever.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 10, 2020)

@Fallowfox - the number is apparently 23% and 41% bi. Though I dunno how accurate those stats are... Wonder if the gayness of the community makes people more motivated to claim it, versus less.

And for the remaining 32%, apparently that's all the women except for the handful of creeps mentioned. So, all the guys are gay, all the women are straight, and in the end no one can get a date, but all the art has sausages.


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## Elon Flow (Jan 10, 2020)

...


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## Rarum (Jan 12, 2020)

I also find this trend interesting, and honestly have no idea as to why occurs. I’ve seen lots of straight art on furry subreddits, though — it seems to be a near-equal ratio on some of them. But I haven’t counted or anything.

Numbers aside, I wonder if it’s just more noticeable because people aren’t afraid to express and explore their sexuality in this community, because of how open-minded and accepting it is (as it should be!). So it might be a bit of selection bias (not sure if that’s the correct term). So you see a wider variety of people, when in reality that could be a more realistic representation of the human population as a whole. But then again, OP has the numbers that show a skew, so yeah. I don’t really know. 

Also: personally, I find both female and male anthropomorphic characters to be attractive. However, in terms of actual real people, I’ve been crushing on various females since I was 6, and have never felt the same way or any attraction towards a guy. Take that as you will, but I’m straight when it comes to people.  I think all sexualities and preferences are great, of course.


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## Trevorbluesquirrel (Jan 12, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> @Fallowfox - the number is apparently 23% and 41% bi. Though I dunno how accurate those stats are... Wonder if the gayness of the community makes people more motivated to claim it, versus less.
> 
> And for the remaining 32%, apparently that's all the women except for the handful of creeps mentioned. So, all the guys are gay, all the women are straight, and in the end no one can get a date, but all the art has sausages.



Well, the results were taken at an actual furry con, so you're not gonna get much better results, eh!?

Also, maybe it could also be that some of the biggest artists that have the biggest galleries do almost entirely gay art, so people follow them more based on their popularity than their content!

And since Furry Porn is a large part of the art, and we're conditioned to believe that males get horny much faster and much more often than females, and would be much more likely to get right to the act even with a stranger, so quick sex scenes and comics with males take less work, since straight porn would likely be expected to have a buildup of romance, and that women don't typically hop into bed with strangers!

Also, some of the biggest porn settings are gender divided: Locker rooms and frat houses are gender specific!

And some more extreme kinks are more accepted in gay porn than straight: Kidnapping, rape, rough sex, slavery, watersports......... we'd rather they be depicted happening to men than women, and the artists get a lot less flack when bad things happen to males!

And since pregnancy turns a lot of furs off, gay porn is safer, no risk of pregnancy or STD'S!


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## MaelstromEyre (Jan 13, 2020)

Elon Flow said:


> I don't think it is possible to get an accurate number on orientation in the community. A lot of the straight furs are not going to openly admit to being straight for fear of being ostracized.
> 
> I just assume I will be judged for being straight or other furs will try to convert/fix me so I mostly just keep it to myself and don't mention it. As I approach 40 though I no longer care what people think about me anymore.
> I'll be friends with people who are OK with me being a straight furry. Differences make people more interesting as long as the discourse remains civil.



The only reason I really even bring up the fact I'm a straight female is the same reason I say I'm already in a long term committed relationship - so that no one mistakes me for being "available" or "interested."

It doesn't ALWAYS stop them.  I have had a few contacts, male and female, who seemed to think it was some kind of challenge.

If someone asks me my preference and then tries to "change my mind," I find it disrespectful and repeat that I am a heterosexual female in a committed relationship.

If they persist, the conversation is over.  I'm okay with them "rejecting" me for being heterosexual, if they think my only use to them is for NSFW/ERP, anyway.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 15, 2020)

Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> Well, the results were taken at an actual furry con, so you're not gonna get much better results, eh!?


Just keep in mind that “at a con” in itself creates a biased sample. Polling particular subcultures will always present a challenge, and a representative, unbiased sample is practically impossible to obtain. 

So while it may be true that you’ll be hard pressed to find much better, you should also be aware that the results only represents, at best, the attendees of <con where survey is done>. 



Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> And since Furry Porn is a large part of the art, and we're conditioned to believe that males get horny much faster and much more often than females, and would be much more likely to get right to the act even with a stranger, so quick sex scenes and comics with males take less work, since straight porn would likely be expected to have a buildup of romance, and that women don't typically hop into bed with strangers!


As someone who creates and reads comics, I can’t say that’s an expectation I’ve seen much if any of - at most we had readers remarking on a particular female character going all the way on a first date as a virgin. Many erotic comics have more in common with porn than with RL, and goodness knows most porn that isn’t specifically marketed to women doesn’t put much effort into building relationships.



Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> And some more extreme kinks are more accepted in gay porn than straight: Kidnapping, rape, rough sex, slavery, watersports......... we'd rather they be depicted happening to men than women, and the artists get a lot less flack when bad things happen to males!


You must be moving in very different circles than I do. I can’t say I have seen a significantly disproportionate amount of these subjects (possibly excluding watersports, though even then I don’t think the difference is all that big) avoiding female involvement. I could definitely point you to both straight and lesbian hard kink art/galleries. Now, I don’t preclude the possibility that there might be backlash from some groups if female characters are portrayed in a “victim” scenario, as it were, but there’s always going to be Those People.



Trevorbluesquirrel said:


> And since pregnancy turns a lot of furs off, gay porn is safer, no risk of pregnancy or STD'S!


I’m not sure I follow your logic, here. The only non-sequential art that typically portrays pregnancy as a result is quite obviously caters to people who are specifically into it. Otherwise, much like in mainstream porn, it can just be handwaved away, attributed to birth control, or (exclusive to speculative fiction, including furry content) attributed to the species involved not being able to interbreed.

STDs, of course, give no fucks about your sex. If that’s the level of realism you desire, that’s what condoms are for.


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## Filter (Jan 15, 2020)

Elon Flow said:


> I don't think it is possible to get an accurate number on orientation in the community. A lot of the straight furs are not going to openly admit to being straight for fear of being ostracized.
> 
> I just assume I will be judged for being straight or other furs will try to convert/fix me so I mostly just keep it to myself and don't mention it. As I approach 40 though I no longer care what people think about me anymore.
> I'll be friends with people who are OK with me being a straight furry. Differences make people more interesting as long as the discourse remains civil.


True. Being a straight fur can feel isolating at times. Probably not as isolating as gay people experience in daily life, but I agree. I still haven't answered the recent poll on this topic, despite having clear preferences.

Also, I don't think as many women answer furry surveys. Surveys that ask personal and arguably creepy questions. There seem to be groups of women and girls who are into the costuming or the art who more-or-less stick to their local groups and circles of close friends. It wouldn't surprise me if few of them are included in the statistics.

As far as being friends with someone, orientation isn't on my list of factors. Or if it is, perhaps subconsciously, it's far down the list. Sure, if there's attraction that isn't mutual feelings might get hurt I'd be cautious. But just because a friend happens to be is the gender that you're romantically into in that doesn't mean either party has feelings for the other. I'm only attracted to a small subset of the gender that I find attractive, for instance. Just because I'm straight that doesn't mean I'm attracted to all, or even most, members of the opposite sex. It seems to me that this is more common than not. If I don't have as many gay friends it's because we don't have as much in common, on average. Not because of exclusion or unrequited feelings.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 15, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> Just keep in mind that “at a con” in itself creates a biased sample. Polling particular subcultures will always present a challenge, and a representative, unbiased sample is practically impossible to obtain.
> 
> So while it may be true that you’ll be hard pressed to find much better, you should also be aware that the results only represents, at best, the attendees of <con where survey is done>.



Arguably it only represents what folks who replied chose to ID as, if you want to get that pedantic. But it's a starting point - even if inflated, the numbers absolutely do not match society, which illustrates a trend. The question is the percentage of "bi" correct, or because no one thinks furries are straight, do people ID as such to fit in without needing to pretend/change anything about themselves. I'm dancing around a form gatekeeping (gaykeeping? gay-tkeeping?) I hate, but claiming to be bi can be a sort of low-key way to fit on the rainbow easily. With that in mind, I'd say the percentage of "bi" is overstated, naturally causing the "straight" to be understated.

Alternatively, it could be humans are _naturally_ bi, and society fucks that up. But when you have the straight-as-wet-pasta furry community, people tend to get more adventurous.

Out of curiosity, does anyone have stats for any other non-furry cons? I know cons like Arisia and Connecticon (sorry, I'm a damn yankee panther) have very high rainbow presences. Be interesting to see if there's any similarities.


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## Trevorbluesquirrel (Jan 17, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> Just keep in mind that “at a con” in itself creates a biased sample. Polling particular subcultures will always present a challenge, and a representative, unbiased sample is practically impossible to obtain.
> 
> So while it may be true that you’ll be hard pressed to find much better, you should also be aware that the results only represents, at best, the attendees of <con where survey is done>.
> 
> ...



Well, exactly, results are just vague estimates!

I read mostly gay porn comics, straight only if they involve a long ongoing story, and I tend to mirror furry content to real life as well, wondering what aspects of reality will be present, and what will be changed to Fantasy! Also think about stereotypes often, so my points were based on these 3 factors! 

If straight porn often is short and sexy as well, then that would just be a stereotype then!

I saw a video a while ago that was pointing out the double standard of rape jokes: If its about a woman, its offensive, but about a man, its funny! And again, I was using the stereotypes that most people believe women should be respected and treated well, and that hard kinks that a lot of us might find hot for men, wouldn't find them hot for women!

And yes, sometimes in comics, species can't interbreed, but in others they can! Just when I see a straight sex scene start, my first reaction is ''Will they get pregnant!?'', even if its not tagged, cause I simply assume that all straight sex can result in pregnancies, until its been established otherwise!

Also, I just meant that condom use is incredibly rare in furry art and stories, and a lot of it isn't between monogamous partners, so I assume that means in most cases STD's must not actually exist within the universe of the art or story, and we're simply suppose to assume that's the case, unless the creator outright states that they do exist, which I've never seen happen!

So, most of my points are based on stereotypes, my own assumptions relating to real life, and just the way I think about furry porn and comics, as well as what I've seen in the almost exclusively gay furry content I look up.  

Based mostly on my own views it seems!


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jan 17, 2020)

Stolen from a different thread, but someone else posted some demographics about furries and where responds fell on the Kinsey scale (0 completely het, 6 being completely homo).
Data comes from here:
adjectivespecies.com: Furry Demographics | [adjective][species]






(Not how I'd show the data, but w/e). Other than a slightly gayer trend towards the end of the data, we find the majority fall in "definitely not perfectly straight" category.  However, on a 3 point scale (straight, bi, gay) I'd map it to 0-1 ID as straight, 2-4 ID as bi, 5-6 ID as a gay. Which gives us about 40% straight, 30% bi, 30% gay. Not a perfect map, but it does generally tell the same story as @Trevorbluesquirrel 's data.

Interestingly,




We do find that people tend towards bi in the first couple years in the fandom, then level off. Less so bi folks tends towards gay.  One of the links off the first one had this quote:
"It's safe to conclude that _more than half_ of the heterosexual furries coming into the community will change their sexual preference"
So we can conclude from this that that furry art will find your rainbow side.

Omitted from the data are trends that show the community is 60-80% male. However, either this thread has managed to drag out every straight woman in the fandom (what? 6 of you) or this demographic data is old. It's possible, in the last few years, more women have joined the community and the numbers no longer really apply.

However, the link did confirm one thing that we all know - this community does definitely attract a lot of non-het guys. So that lends more data to the theory that even if "the gays" are not the majority of the population, they are the ones driving the art that's popular because this is an outlet. Hence the apparent popularity.


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## MaelstromEyre (Jan 19, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> We do find that people tend towards bi in the first couple years in the fandom, then level off. Less so bi folks tends towards gay.  One of the links off the first one had this quote:
> "It's safe to conclude that _more than half_ of the heterosexual furries coming into the community will change their sexual preference"
> So we can conclude from this that that furry art will find your rainbow side.
> 
> ...



I'd say most of the men I know in the fandom are gay, which is one of the reason I enjoy their friendship.  I never have to deal with the weird, creep-stalking cringe messages from them, suggesting anything close to ERP or an actual relationship.  Not to say our conversations are entirely PG-rated, but it's never directed towards each other in a flirty sense.  It's more like lewd jokes back and forth, and because we already know each other.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 8, 2020)

As a bisexual with both male and female characters and a checkerboarded following, my overall conclusion is that _even gay men can still be absolute pigs and disrespectful.
_
I've had a number of weird sexual advances involving my fursona and my characters to know that most people don't quite have an understanding with consent, and it's mostly been men who have this problem. Any of the women who I've dealt with in general tend to have some respect for my personal "virtual" boundaries. The men on the other hand often just assume that skimpy clothes + confident character = fucktoy. 

This of course, creates an environment that isn't really welcoming to anyone except horny guys. 

And I really can't win to get the uncomfortable comments to go away; the guys keep coming no matter if I draw more males or more females. Maybe it's time to invest into more landscape artwork for a while...


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## KiokuChan (Jun 8, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> As a bisexual with both male and female characters and a checkerboarded following, my overall conclusion is that _even gay men can still be absolute pigs and disrespectful.
> _
> I've had a number of weird sexual advances involving my fursona and my characters to know that most people don't quite have an understanding with consent, and it's mostly been men who have this problem. Any of the women who I've dealt with in general tend to have some respect for my personal "virtual" boundaries. The men on the other hand often just assume that skimpy clothes + confident character = fucktoy.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry that's happening to you O_O That's not okay. Maybe have on your profile page on both here and the front of your FA itself that you're not interested and that you've had problems and won't accept that kind of behavior. Still that shouldn't be happening and you shouldn't have to. I've somehow miraculously only had a single person ever say any thing inappropriate to me myself on either FA or FAF and it was a complete stranger who PMed out of the blue when I first joined, and I mentioned and people's response were an annoyed: wait did they really? Hasn't happened since though. At least not about me as said, a had one or two complete stranger randomly ask for fetish art who was clearly writing to every single person they could, even though it's clearly not what I am drawing (one person basically PMed on FA out of the blue asking for art and then did it again a few years later. . the other did on a free art request board that was about practicing making very specific things with specific mediums in a style and they clearly didn't read what the board was about at all but was just posting that request blindly on every art req board). Those are the only cases I can remember here though. I had one more case of random lewd art request from a stranger out of the blue back on DeviantArt (when again none of my art is like that, but nothing towards me their either). So sorry that that's a thing for you.


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## TyraWadman (Jun 8, 2020)

I think it follows the trend of identity in general. If their only goal is to be recognized for what they are, and the only thing about them is their sexuality, that's all they're going to be about. 
Straight people can be just as pervy, but there wasn't a whole movement behind it to inspire the mass production/spread of porn. Just my guess though.

e621 is just a silly thing to use, since most of the art uploaded there is without the consent/knowing of the actual artist. I've had people pose some old sexual tension between two females on there without my knowing. Couldn't even get the tags right. And most RP communities just borrow pre existing art anyways. So depending what that _one person _likes, is what you'll see.


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## Toby_Morpheus (Jun 8, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Stolen from a different thread, but someone else posted some demographics about furries and where responds fell on the Kinsey scale (0 completely het, 6 being completely homo).
> Data comes from here:
> adjectivespecies.com: Furry Demographics | [adjective][species]
> 
> ...


I hate these kinds of graphs. Takes too long for me to quantify them in my head. I got it tho lol

Also, notice how in the second graph, people become more gay the longer they are in the fandom.
I guess the rumors are true. You don't have to turn someone gay. Just make them a furry and it does the rest ;DDD

@Bink


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## oappo (Jun 8, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> I think in terms of work produced, a lot of fandoms tend to see a marked increase in representation of homosexuality (and possibly queer identities in general) compared to the prevalence in general population.


Another notable thing is that there is definitely overlap between sexualities if we're talking about media produced.  E.g., both straight men and lesbians will find female/female stuff attractive. Yuri is quite popular in the anime community.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 8, 2020)

I didn't realise the anime community idolised Yuri Gagarin


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jun 8, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> I didn't realise the anime community idolised Yuri Gagarin


In Japanese Yuri means girls love....... (I am not certain if you were joking or not so I translated just in case.) However, Yuri is usually designated for guys as Yaoi (boy's love/gay men relationship) is usually for ladies. (However, this varies too based on personal preference.)


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## JustAlex1997 (Jun 8, 2020)

Many would argue that furries are accepting of sexuality to a fault, so furry art reflects a wide range of interests (both normal and extreme). Most furries probably don't fantasize about being blown up like a balloon, but the existence of a demand can certainly influence people to create content based around it. Besides, there's plenty of straight and vanilla content on the internet (furry and non-furry) for people to consume, so those looking to make money will probably create content that has less competition.


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## Bink (Jun 8, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> I hate these kinds of graphs. Takes too long for me to quantify them in my head. I got it tho lol
> 
> Also, notice how in the second graph, people become more gay the longer they are in the fandom.
> I guess the rumors are true. You don't have to turn someone gay. Just make them a furry and it does the rest ;DDD
> ...


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## Stray Cat Terry (Jun 9, 2020)

I think that it just happens to be so. You know, for example, Hong Kong has left-side-driving as it was once been colonized by Britain, which is also a left-side-driving. If the Brits were right-side-driving, HK would be too.

My apologies if the example wasn't appropriate, would edit if I think up a better one. Anyways, for me, it's just what happens to be so.

Or here's another, that people tend to recall more of the unique stuffs than common stuffs.

Say, if the straight vs others were 1:1 ratio, would you think there are 'many straights'? For me, I would still think others are the majority, because they catch my attention more. Maybe because that it can't be seen commonly, at least in real life.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 9, 2020)

Nah, dis fandom be ghey af boi


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 9, 2020)

Bink said:


> View attachment 87889


I'm certainly gay for tops with zippers that are pulled scandalously low.


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