# Where our money goes?



## aquavixen (Jul 12, 2008)

I've been reading nearly every post on the forums here currently about donations, how much, where it came from, when it came from, and a simple description of the specs of the servers.

But i'm sure what a lot of us are wondering is... the servers cost from what i can see, total cost for the servers so far is $6700, and from the different posts it looks that the donations have been $20,000, and more yet to come.

So that leaves... roughly $13,300 (and more) unaccounted for.

Can we get the site admins to some how show us exactly where it's spent, so we know it's going towards actual FA hosting hardware, and not spent elsewhere for personal items? Possibly hosting prices, actual hardware totals, ETC.

Now.. i've worked in the managed hosting sector for about 4 years now, the data centers where these computers go, and i could understand $1108/month for hosting fees, is that where it goes?

Surely i'm not the only one sitting around curious and wondering about all of this.....


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## Fuzzypaws (Jul 12, 2008)

http://yak.furaffinity.net/pages/hp_data.htm
http://yak.furaffinity.net/pages/sun_www.htm

Just by those it's $11,284.60 so far.  Plus shipping on the Sun (not displayed), plus the price of all the ram and whatever other upgrades they're getting for the existing database server (not yet listed), and it's most likely well over $12,000 spent so far.  That's out of $15,000-$16,000 in donations, not $20,000, which was just a target some people were bandying about during the donation flood that they thought we might reach.

I don't know if they're planning to spend any more, but as it stands now that leaves roughly 3 months of hosting and bandwidth fees in the remaining money.


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## dmfalk (Jul 12, 2008)

Yak has already posted the expenditures for the two servers ordered (about $11k)-- I don't have the post URL handy, but you clearly missed it.

And it was only $16k at the time of purchases.

The rest will be for upgrades for current servers.

d.m.f.


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## aquavixen (Jul 12, 2008)

ah, just curious is all.

I looked through all the recent posts and didn't see anything, sorry for stickin my nose into it >.> just thought it should be here somewhere and didn't see it.

Maybe i missed it, probably did.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 12, 2008)

aquavixen said:


> But i'm sure what a lot of us are wondering is... the servers cost from what i can see, total cost for the servers so far is $6700, and from the different posts it looks that the donations have been $20,000, and more yet to come.


http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=22632

Nowhere has any FA official stated or said that we got $20,000 or more. Nowhere.


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## yak (Jul 12, 2008)

Fuzzypaws said:


> http://yak.furaffinity.net/pages/hp_data.htm
> http://yak.furaffinity.net/pages/sun_www.htm
> 
> Just by those it's $11,284.60 so far.  Plus shipping on the Sun (not displayed), plus the price of all the ram and whatever other upgrades they're getting for the existing database server (not yet listed), and it's most likely well over $12,000 spent so far.  That's out of $15,000-$16,000 in donations, not $20,000, which was just a target some people were bandying about during the donation flood that they thought we might reach.
> ...



The shipping from Sun is something ~$280.

Plus, you didn't count for the hard drives. HP server comes without them, and the hard drive totals are something ~$2800

Upgrades for the DB server are ~$400-$600, the price for more 3x 4Gb kits of DDR2-667 ECC RAM, or 3x 8Gb kits of the same.


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## TakeWalker (Jul 12, 2008)

Also: http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?p=491604


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## Arbiter (Jul 12, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=22632
> 
> Nowhere has any FA official stated or said that we got $20,000 or more. Nowhere.



so then any updates at all to FA


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## aquavixen (Jul 12, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=22632
> 
> Nowhere has any FA official stated or said that we got $20,000 or more. Nowhere.



Guess i figured wrong, sowwy


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## Smokescale (Jul 12, 2008)

And what have we done to prevent future crashes!? I demand we buy a Bugs Bunny to counter the gremlins that have spoiled our FA experiences thus far!! I DEMAND BUGS BUNNY!! We have the technology! We can make him better, faster, stronger!! SHINIER!!

---

Note: this is meant to be silly. If you think I'm serious, go suck on a lolly pop.


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## Beezel (Jul 13, 2008)

Smokescale said:


> And what have we done to prevent future crashes!? I demand we buy a Bugs Bunny to counter the gremlins that have spoiled our FA experiences thus far!! I DEMAND BUGS BUNNY!! We have the technology! We can make him better, faster, stronger!! SHINIER!!
> 
> ---
> 
> Note: this is meant to be silly. If you think I'm serious, go suck on a lolly pop.



man...Bugs Bunny got his shit completely ruined by that gremlin. What's he gonna do?


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## aquavixen (Jul 13, 2008)

Alrighty, well i've looked around all the various threads, and found only sparratic info at bast, as to the exact nature of what happened to the server FA was on previously before this crash, that caused it to crash.

Something about a circut overload, at the co-lo where it was hosted, something else about that might of caused some kind of hardware to some how fail.

I could understand how this is possible, but it's remote and rare. I've read in another thread how we had redundant hard drives and that the data was not lost in this most recent hardware failure, so then what exactly DID die?

Some of us are actually tech savy and understand, now that the servers are offically down and not going to be in use, maybe someone should figure out what caused the faulire and thus work to find measures to prevent it in the future.

Was it the system's memory, motherboard, processor, fans, power supply?

Just kinda thinking out loud here


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## ZigZag13 (Jul 13, 2008)

I have a question.

Since FA is getting some really good servers now, does that mean that Search can _finally_ be re-implemented to FA? From all that I remember, wasn't the strain on the hardware the entire reason Search was disabled? With this new hardware, will that still be a problem?


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## Bladewing (Jul 13, 2008)

ZigZag13 said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Since FA is getting some really good servers now, does that mean that Search can _finally_ be re-implemented to FA? From all that I remember, wasn't the strain on the hardware the entire reason Search was disabled? With this new hardware, will that still be a problem?



Seconded!


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## nrr (Jul 13, 2008)

ZigZag13 said:


> HI WE CAN HAS SRCH PLZ


No.


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## Bladewing (Jul 13, 2008)

nrr said:


> No.




Awwwww


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## pikachu_electricmouse (Jul 13, 2008)

I would be disappointed if none of the $20 I donated went towards hookers and blow.


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## BooBooBunnygirl (Jul 13, 2008)

pikachu_electricmouse said:


> I would be disappointed if none of the $20 I donated went towards hookers and blow.



You sir, made me spit out my coffee.

THANK YOU.


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2008)

ZigZag13 said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Since FA is getting some really good servers now, does that mean that Search can _finally_ be re-implemented to FA? From all that I remember, wasn't the strain on the hardware the entire reason Search was disabled? With this new hardware, will that still be a problem?




I think they should worry on getting the site back up first, then worry about the search. It would surely be extremely beneficial to the site, of course. Considering people are having shit fits and leaving FA, and going to competition sites such as FAP (which btw hasnt crashed to my knowledge, and has a working search), it would be a plus.

Should their be any money left from the donations, I think it would be wise on improving issues such as this on the site.


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## Firon (Jul 13, 2008)

Most people on FAP will come back to FA and never use FAP again. Just like every other time FA goes down for more than a few hours.

I've had personal experience with search for huge DBs on another site. It requires a fair amount of work, and you sure as hell can't do it with stock MySQL alone (meaning you need sphinx or lucene).


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## AlexInsane (Jul 13, 2008)

pikachu_electricmouse said:


> I would be disappointed if none of the $20 I donated went towards hookers and blow.



Actually, the 20 you sent in was used to create a hooker made entirely out of blow.

Two birds with one stone and all that, y'know.


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## aquavixen (Jul 13, 2008)

AlexInsane said:


> Actually, the 20 you sent in was used to create a hooker made entirely out of blow.
> 
> Two birds with one stone and all that, y'know.



Portable hookers ftw!


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## Dragoneer (Jul 13, 2008)

aquavixen said:


> I've read in another thread how we had redundant hard drives and that the data was not lost in this most recent hardware failure, so then what exactly DID die?


Nothing on the system flat out died. We can still use it and it is operational, but it is incredibly unstable and the more and more crashes we have the more risk we have of catastrophic failure. Point is: we don't know what the exact issue is. We have some suspicions (NIC cards) but we don't know for 100%. That's the problem.


ZigZag13 said:


> Since FA is getting some really good servers now, does that mean that Search can _finally_ be re-implemented to FA? From all that I remember, wasn't the strain on the hardware the entire reason Search was disabled? With this new hardware, will that still be a problem?


We are working on some various things, Search being one of them, but the "when" and the "how" is still unknown right now. We've got a bunch of other really nice tweaks in place to make FA even better, and Yak is doing some huge DB optimizations (cutting down its size by almost half!) which will allow the site to move even faster.

Search is high on the list.


Sekhmet said:


> Should their be any money left from the donations, I think it would be wise on improving issues such as this on the site.


Oh, of that we are aware, and that's one of the things we're doing.


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## nrr (Jul 13, 2008)

Bladewing said:


> Awwwww


What's so "awwwww"-worthy of that?  We don't exactly have Admiral Rickover leading things, so something as ambitious as Ferrox will most likely never get off the ground all the way.

Think about it this way.  Ferrox may be a nuclear submarine, sure, but will it run without incident, or will it have endless criticality accidents and loss of cooling accidents?  Will it irradiate the crew on board?

I say just stick to diesel until everyone knows what's going on.


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2008)

Firon said:


> Most people on FAP will come back to FA and never use FAP again. Just like every other time FA goes down for more than a few hours.



Exactly.


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## uncia (Jul 13, 2008)

nrr said:
			
		

> Think about it this way.  Ferrox may be a nuclear submarine, sure...


"Admiral, we have found the nuclear wessel. And..."
"Sorry, did you say nuclear _weasel_...?"

*isn't even going near "how do you get two whales in a Ferrox?" in that context*

_*ducks incoming*_



			
				nrr said:
			
		

> I say just stick to diesel until everyone knows what's going on.


That is the plan, afaik. (Yes, 20 months over, but aside...).


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## Dragoneer (Jul 13, 2008)

Sekhmet said:


> Exactly.


We've got some quality improvements going on FA right now. The site is offline, but the team is still working. We've got tangible incentives to being on FA, and more coming soon. 

Hence the reason we're spending $12K to upgrade our infrastructure. We want to be the best site. Elsewise, we could have just gotten some cheapies to do the job -vs- do the job exceptionally.

More to come.


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## Delmore (Jul 13, 2008)

Sekhmet said:


> I think they should worry on getting the site back up first, then worry about the search.


 From what I've seen for so long now, all the responses staff give to people, all the things they deny or argue on, I have a really hard time trusting them now. I am sure they've had quite a bit of extra money from the donations people have given, I highly doubt that they'd JUST get enough to buy the new servers. The fact they aren't even stating that they got a little extra, that they just had enough for the server, leaves me to believe that they are trying to cover something up here. I dunno, I want to trust them, but seriously, I have seen so little come out of the administration here. The search feature was disabled way back when Alkora was still in charge, and after Dragoneer stepped in, we haven't even been shown progress. We've been given excuses, been TOLD something has been done, but seriously. You can search through art by category. If you can do that, I think it's not too difficult to make the switch from that to searching in the title, description, and tags for a keyword. Instead of getting ANY signs of progress, we're given random video links daily, and the staff focus on doing commissions and making extra coin. I want some solid proof already that they are working hard on getting everything to work better, rather than to just keep it barely working.

As soon as the site goes back up, and hopefully that is in less than a month, although I doubt that'll be the case, I hope the search feature is brought back fairly quickly. It's such a basic feature for an art site to have, EVERYONE wants it back, but we just get excuse after excuse why no progress has been shown. What's even worse, I know of people who asked about it and were threatened with BANS. Why is there such hostility to people being curious on such issues? Why do the staff lash back at some people on things like this? Really, we're the members here, we use the site, we pay for the site, and we should be allowed to ask of the staff to improve simple features, or fix certain things. We show the staff respect. Why can't we get respect back? Why are we ignored like this? Why are poorly executed responses given to ANY logical thought people leave against the staff here? They're not crazy, nothing is happening, very little has been done. The site has been brought back up when it is down, but wouldn't it be better if things were done to even prevent it from going down so often? Wouldn't it be nice if features we had years ago were back and running again? Wouldn't it be great if we were given simple new features like editing comments or deleting comments? With the way things are, I don't see it happening. I want the staff to prove me wrong here though, I want to have faith in them, but at the moment, there is nothing to have faith in here. It seems like they are shallowly exploiting us for money and artwork while sitting back otherwise and doing very little else. I know they are working pretty hard now since something major just happened, but the site goes down so often as it is, that this could easily happen again within another month or two.

Dragoneer, if you want to have the best site here, actually show us progress when it goes back up. Get new features going, get old problems fixed, bring back the search function, prove to us you are actually trying here to make it the best site. You've done very little for us to make this "the best site." You've kept it running and made some slight changes here and there. There are so many new features that people would die for, as they'd make using the site so much more convenient for us. If you added such basic features, THAT would make it the best site. It has been too long since we had a search function, and it's too hard to browse and find new artists or things you are interested in seeing when you have no option to search besides browsing by categories. There are still lots of annoying glitches like being able to alert people that you've watched them repeatedly if you keep watching and unwatching them. Comments can have typos sometimes, or people double comment by accident, and then no one can do anything about it. Give us some convenience here! Make this the best site!


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## Kurra (Jul 13, 2008)

Spiff. If the problem is ever found out, a lot of people would want to know I'm sure. And search.... don't need it  It's a lot more interesting to browse through, or click through users' pages and discover totally irrelevant but highly fascinating new artists and works.

Also, first post! 83


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## Delmore (Jul 13, 2008)

Kurra said:


> And search.... don't need it


Oh please, yes people need search. Just browsing by category isn't enough here, unless you're just here to easily be aroused by fetishes. If you're looking for any other art, or even if you wanna be more specific about fetish art, you need a search option for it. What's also up with that on browse? Why can you only look specifically for species, art type, or fetish? If we're honestly limited to just this, I think more should be thrown in so people looking for normal kinds of art can find stuff as well. "General furry art" is gonna pull up way too much. It may be INTERESTING having to put a lot more work into finding art, but you can find even more by just searching for keywords, as they're gonna relate to what you're interested in.


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## OssumPawesome (Jul 13, 2008)

Kurra said:


> Spiff. If the problem is ever found out, a lot of people would want to know I'm sure. And search.... don't need it  It's a lot more interesting to browse through, or click through users' pages and discover totally irrelevant but highly fascinating new artists and works.
> 
> Also, first post! 83



Google would be SO much more fun if we simply had a series of categories we had to link surf through. Searching is dumb!


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## Delmore (Jul 13, 2008)

Exunod said:


> Google would be SO much more fun if we simply had a series of categories we had to link surf through. Searching is dumb!



Sure would be interesting! Who needs convenience?!


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## Kurra (Jul 13, 2008)

Well I just like to find new stuff hopping from place to place across FA. All done without search. There's just so much stuff out on the site, that I could probably spend my entire life looking through and not see it all, which is kinda fun that way.


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## Delmore (Jul 13, 2008)

Kurra said:


> Well I just like to find new stuff hopping from place to place across FA. All done without search. There's just so much stuff out on the site, that I could probably spend my entire life looking through and not see it all, which is kinda fun that way.



You're not going to find every submission even if you did have a search feature. There's no good reason why we don't need one here. With a browse feature, you won't find every submission or even things you are interested, meaning you may NEVER find what you wanna find.


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## Kaejer (Jul 14, 2008)

Delmore said:


> From what I've seen for so long now, all the responses staff give to people, all the things they deny or argue on, I have a really hard time trusting them now. I am sure they've had quite a bit of extra money from the donations people have given, I highly doubt that they'd JUST get enough to buy the new servers. The fact they aren't even stating that they got a little extra, that they just had enough for the server, leaves me to believe that they are trying to cover something up here.



From what has been posted to be purchased, they have about $3000 left. They may have spent more on other things since I last looked, though.

Regardless, I don't remember them ever saying that they had absolutely no money left over.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2008)

Kaejer said:


> From what has been posted to be purchased, they have about $3000 left. They may have spent more on other things since I last looked, though.


We'll be buying more RAM for the DB server. The rest we'll probably hold onto for tax purposes and/or funding bandwidth.


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## Project_X (Jul 14, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> We'll be buying more RAM for the DB server. The rest we'll probably hold onto for tax purposes and/or funding bandwidth.



About how much extra RAM? The server already sounds beefy out of the box.

(I little random and too late, but what about that Blade Server? Have you seen it?)


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2008)

Project_X said:


> About how much extra RAM? The server already sounds beefy out of the box.


Another 8GB or so.


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## Koda (Jul 14, 2008)

Ah yes, taxes. Though, are personal donations taxable? As far as I know, FA is not a corporation which has to be careful about donations...

I say what difference does it make. If after all is said and done, FA doesn't go down every freakin' weak, *someone* has to pay the electric bill per-say at the end of the month. So maybe my 40 bucks didn't go to buy that extra piece of RAM, but instead, its keeping FA free of irritating ads, and delivering my art and porn to my screen. "...bearing a gift beyond price, almost free!"

Love you guys! Keep makin' FA the best!


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## Project_X (Jul 14, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> Another 8GB or so.



Now if FA somehow crashes....>>;


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## keeshah (Jul 14, 2008)

Project_X said:


> About how much extra RAM? The server already sounds beefy out of the box.
> 
> The new ram is for the OLD DB server, upgrading it with more ram an new drives..
> Not for the new serves that have been bought.
> ...


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## Project_X (Jul 14, 2008)

keeshah said:


> Project_X said:
> 
> 
> > About how much extra RAM? The server already sounds beefy out of the box.
> ...


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## Dragoneer (Jul 14, 2008)

Koda said:


> Ah yes, taxes. Though, are personal donations taxable? As far as I know, FA is not a corporation which has to be careful about donations...


Personal donations are not taxable... to a point. Though Fur Affinity is an LLC incorporated entity, so we will have to pay taxes on all donations. Current estimates are about $2.2K of taxes that will be owed next year. 

Hoooowever, we can deduct all business expenses against the income to bring the final taxable amount down. Since FA operates at a loss this should not be a big deal. What I don't know is if Jheryn ever paid taxes on his side of things. I only legally purchased Fur Affinity as of October of last year (for a grand total of $2,500 out of pocket).


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## Roo Gryphon (Jul 14, 2008)

*drools* ... nice stuff... wish i was the one to get to install it


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## marmelmm (Jul 14, 2008)

BooBooBunnygirl said:


> You sir, made me spit out my coffee.
> 
> THANK YOU.



What she said.  LMAO!


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## Koda (Jul 14, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> Personal donations are not taxable... to a point. Though Fur Affinity is an LLC incorporated entity, so we will have to pay taxes on all donations. Current estimates are about $2.2K of taxes that will be owed next year.



Do you think you can claim the servers as 'capital investment'?


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## aquavixen (Aug 5, 2008)

Okies, so what i was trying to hint at in a more polite manner in an earlier post in this thread i'll go ahead and just put bluntly here.

One of the servers "shit it's self" i read in another post recently, is that the bahamut server, the "old" one i understand? This one that died was the entire reason the site went down, because it failed?

If so i think most others would like some sort of autopsy performed on it in a way, and hopefully some sort of proof as to what happened to cause the old one to die, so that we all know this wasn't some elaborate hoax to get free money to buy shiny new toys, or just free money in general.

Likely not immediately but eventually would be nice.


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## Strawkitty (Aug 5, 2008)

aquavixen said:


> If so i think most others would like some sort of autopsy performed on it in a way, and hopefully some sort of proof as to what happened to cause the old one to die, so that we all know this wasn't some elaborate hoax to get free money to buy shiny new toys, or just free money in general.



Well I wouldn't care either way since it was just a question of time before the servers needed an upgrade anyway thanks to ever more growing populace of FA. Also it's not free money as it all went back into site(unless you doubt that as well)... that we can use for free. Regardless I really doubt it was a hoax.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 5, 2008)

aquavixen said:


> One of the servers "shit it's self" i read in another post recently, is that the bahamut server, the "old" one i understand? This one that died was the entire reason the site went down, because it failed?
> 
> If so i think most others would like some sort of autopsy performed on it in a way, and hopefully some sort of proof as to what happened to cause the old one to die, so that we all know this wasn't some elaborate hoax to get free money to buy shiny new toys, or just free money in general.


Yes, it shit itself. Proper terminology there.  

As for an autopsy, we know what happened. Part of the original issue was some problems with the onboard NIC controllers. That was a motherboard issue that could only be fixed by replacing the motherboard. The final deathblow to the server came with a RAID controller failure. So it was a hard failure the entire way through.

I can do an "autopsy" but you're not going to see anything. When computers die they don't leave visible damage indicators unless a capacitor pops (and even then). I can provide picture upon picture, but you wouldn't see anything visibly damaged. It's just now how it works.

Ask 100 geeks and they'll tell you the same thing. The single most frustrating part of the IT world is hardware failure. The only way to troubleshoot damaged hardware is by swapping it out with a known working piece of tech gear, and swapping parts one... by one. Sometimes you get it on the first go, other times it's some stupid tech bug caused by Random Part X that should in know way affect Random Part C. I've seen a broken DVD-ROM prevent a computer from booting up, causing errors completely unrelated to the tech at hand.

Further, we've posted pictures of the hardware as we got it in as proof. What more do you want for proof? 14 1TB hard drives are not cheap. A Sunfire X4150 is NOT a cheap piece of hardware, especially with two ultra-highend 15K RPM 2.5" drives. A fully configured Dell PowerEdge 2970 costs a pretty penny. Go to www.dell.com and configure one yourself if you have any doubts as to what our servers cost. We've posted all the specs before. Go compare to the site, to the pictures if you have any doubts where our money went.

Pics of the Sun server will be posted by tomorrow with luck.


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## Rossyfox (Aug 5, 2008)

Delmore said:


> From what I've seen for so long now, all the responses staff give to people, all the things they deny or argue on, I have a really hard time trusting them now. I am sure they've had quite a bit of extra money from the donations people have given, I highly doubt that they'd JUST get enough to buy the new servers. The fact they aren't even stating that they got a little extra, that they just had enough for the server, leaves me to believe that they are trying to cover something up here.



They didn't get JUST enough to buy the new servers, and they've been totally open on the site status forum about donations and how they were spent. Did it not occur to you that perhaps, just maybe, the extra donations could be saved for later use? Even charities have bank accounts.



Delmore said:


> You can search through art by category. If you can do that, I think it's not too difficult to make the switch from that to searching in the title, description, and tags for a keyword.



I'm sorry, I never realised you were an expert on how Alkora's terrible coding works.



Delmore said:


> Instead of getting ANY signs of progress, we're given random video links daily, and the staff focus on doing commissions and making extra coin. I want some solid proof already that they are working hard on getting everything to work better, rather than to just keep it barely working.



PROTIP: not all staff are coders, not all staff are moderators. Not all staff know how to do things with servers. And even the ones that do have a right to a life outside of FA.



Delmore said:


> As soon as the site goes back up, and hopefully that is in less than a month, although I doubt that'll be the case, I hope the search feature is brought back fairly quickly. It's such a basic feature for an art site to have, EVERYONE wants it back, but we just get excuse after excuse why no progress has been shown.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



The reason the staff get so annoyed is probably that this has been discussed so many times before.

You don't seem to grasp how bad Alkora's coding was. FA requires a complete overhaul before new features can be added - indeed, before new features SHOULD be added. If the site had been coded nicely and were easily extensible then sure, they could work on the site live and you could see progress right before your eyes.

Instead, they are recoding the site from scratch. That's right, they are recoding the site from scratch. It's called Ferrox, it gets talked about all the time, there's even a whole sub-forum for discussing it, but apparently your head was too far up Alkora's ass to see it.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=16307 THE MORE http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=23370 YOU KNOW


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## DracoGuard (Aug 5, 2008)

aquavixen said:


> I've been reading nearly every post on the forums here currently about donations, how much, where it came from, when it came from, and a simple description of the specs of the servers.
> 
> But i'm sure what a lot of us are wondering is... the servers cost from what i can see, total cost for the servers so far is $6700, and from the different posts it looks that the donations have been $20,000, and more yet to come.
> 
> ...



Oh, and even though you've been answered about this, i would also like to say that some of the money should go towards paying some of the staff that worked continuously to fix the server. i did not read the entire topic. i've been laying here half dead waiting for FA's return


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