# FA + Furocity: 4 months on.



## LizardKing (Oct 22, 2011)

So, it's been 4 months since FA joined forces with Furocity to... do some stuff. To quote the original post:



> Along with additional coding expertise, Furocity is bringing improved administrative structure and coordination to Fur Affinity's vast wealth of users.
> 
> Dragoneer (FA) and Daemonshyai (Furocity) will share responsibilities of the sites as equals (co-owners). We'll be working together to expand the community and offer a long-term, structured plan to improve the sites, re-aligning our responsibilities and improving end-user support.



So firstly, there's "Additional coding expertise". The Summer update never arrived, and I've noticed no additions to the "technical staff" on the FA Staff page. Is there any progress with integrating the two teams yet? Any ETA on any projects, new or old?

Then there's the entirely vague second paragraph. Expanding the community? Improving end-user support? Are these things still under discussion? It all seemed very exciting and interesting at the time, but since then... nothing. Maybe I've missed some news on the Twitter feed or some such, but so far it seems dreadfully quiet for such a large event. I'm not expecting any major announcements or anything, but a simple update on the progress so far would be nice. How about some stats on the trouble tickets? Had headway been made on the backlog since the new staff came on board?

For an event that seemed fairly notable in the history of FA, there seems to have been very little to come of it so far :c

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be some drama-mongering little bastard or anything, I'm just curious. Don't kill me.


----------



## Zenia (Oct 22, 2011)

Has it been 4 months already?

I don't notice anything different, except that I learned of another site to upload my work to. XD


----------



## OssumPawesome (Oct 22, 2011)

Quiet, fool! They'll take the search feature away if you question them too much!


----------



## Cyril (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh hey. FA staff being FA staff. Shock and amazement.
I really don't care that much, but I know most people do, so. Yeah uhm obviously the FA community is never told a thing about what the admins and staff are doing, which is a communication issue that shouldn't exist in the first place, but this site is run by furries so :V


----------



## CannonFodder (Oct 22, 2011)

Hey yak, any news on all that stuff?


----------



## Xenke (Oct 22, 2011)

There's been a change in some user support. The way I understand that the support admins have been structured (department heads and such) seems like it was a good idea, though IMHO there have been some hiccups with that (also IMHO stemming from the fact that these department head comprise almost entirely of admins from Furocity, and not FA Well, this is the case with the departments that actually concern me, anyway).

Coding side, nothing's really changed. I recall hearing little blurbs that indicated that there are people who're not listed on the Staff page who are responsible for coding duties, but there's no way I'm going to be able to find those instances. Still, there have been some minuscule changes, such as Viglink, who knows who perpetrated that though.

Either way, progress is going to be needed to be shown before the end of the year. Not because "baww you promised" or stuff like that, but because the alternative sites have made themselves much more presentable and are moving forward, while FA seems to be stagnating. If nothing is done, yes, people will actually leave and go to the more nicely presented site. Hell, if I was more involved with making art, I would have already done so.


----------



## Kayze (Oct 23, 2011)

FA not keeping up with promises and changes. This is new and exciting.

I understand the importance of bringing it up, but it's a reoccurring thing. That is, they promise stuff, it doesn't happen, people complain, nothing changes. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 23, 2011)

I also want to know about the Code of Conduct that was promised. It's been long enough to write one from scratch, never mind just doing the final tweaks.


----------



## Accountability (Oct 23, 2011)

Nothing changed. Much of anything that happened was still executed poorly. There is still failure to communicate with the users (Viglink, "File Read Only" mode), failure to communicate with the staff (Not telling them when adding the Furocity staff, Not keeping them up to date with the progress of various projects) and failure to accomplish anything that's been promised. Advertisers still complain about their emails not being read and there's still the occasional "I've had a trouble ticket open [insane amount of time] for [insanely easily resolved situation]!" posts.  And I doubt the technical staff has been expanded.

I'm beginning to think the "merger" was nothing more than a public display of Dragoneer and Gavin's friendship. Because from the outside, that's what it looks like. Nothing's _actually happening_ to prove otherwise.



Rakuen Growlithe said:


> I also want to know about the Code of  Conduct that was promised. It's been long enough to write one from  scratch, never mind just doing the final tweaks.



Arshes already said they don't plan on releasing it. There's no real reason other than "They don't want to".


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 23, 2011)

Accountability said:
			
		

> Arshes already said they don't plan on releasing it. There's no real reason other than "They don't want to".



I went back and checked. He did say there was a private one that's top secret so only Dragoneer's best friends get to see it but there was going to be a public one at some unspecified time.


----------



## Kihari (Oct 23, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> but there was going to be a public [Code of Conduct] at some unspecified time.



Wasn't that back when certain staff members not pulling their weight was the FA disaster de jour? Perhaps now that we're not all griping about that subject (at the moment), they've changed their minds about releasing it.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 23, 2011)

HEY LOOK GUYS WE HAVE STAFF AND MAKE VAGUE ALLUSIONS TO MORE CODERS WE REALLY ARE DOING STUFF SO JUST LAY OFF GAWD YOU ARE ALL TROLLS OH MY FUCKING GOD WE ARE TOTALLY DOING STUFF IGNORE THE THINGS THAT HAVE BROKEN NO STOP COMPLAINING WE ARE WORKING YES HONESTLY REALLY WE ARE NO MORE COMPLAINTS OH CHRIST WHAT DO I DO BUT WE HAVE THIS NEW FANCY THING COMING TO FA IT'S REALLY AWESOME LOOK HERES A DRAWING OF IT WE EXPECT IT TO BE DUE IN AN UNSPECIFIED PERIOD OF TIME I KNOW WE DON'T NEED IT AND IT PROBABLY WON'T WORK BUT LOOK IT PROVES WE ARE DOING STUFF


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 23, 2011)

Kihari said:
			
		

> Wasn't that back when certain staff members not pulling their weight was  the FA disaster de jour? Perhaps now that we're not all griping about  that subject (at the moment), they've changed their minds about  releasing it.



That's what Arshes said after locking the last Code of Conduct thread exactly a month ago. Whether they're actually planning on going through with it or not I don't know. I think the official position is something like, "It's coming at some point but you're not allowed to discuss it!"



			
				Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> The set of rules are being worked on for our staff to follow. However,  these are internal documents that is not for public viewing.
> 
> Having said that there will be a public document for our users to know  the general guidelines/ something like a service commitment that is  being worked on.
> 
> We do not have an ETA for latter document at this time.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 23, 2011)

Re the code of conduct...

Can't talk about the internal documents, but here's my personal code of conduct that I subscribe to:

Assume Good Faith on part of the users
-- This means that while it is on the users to read the rules, unless there are clear signs showing an intent to break said rules, I'll assume that the issue was caused out of innocence, not malice. 

Don't Be A Dick
-- There are times I can be an ass - sometimes, that happens. Hey, I'm a person. We're all people. But being an ass means that I'm just being shitty right then. A dick is out to screw you over. I try to avoid that, because hey - I'm a user of FA, as well. Now, this one is a bit subjective, but then again, sometimes my best option is...

Don't Be Afraid To Hand Over An Issue To Another Admin
-- If I feel that for whatever reason, I'm too involved in a situation for an impartial decision, I'll either hold action until I can talk to another admin, or pass the ball over to another admin entirely. This is particularly an issue when issues involving friends, enemies, and Xaerun. 

Try to remain courteous and friendly 
-- Keyword, try. This doesn't mean I'm going to take it up the rump from people, but it does mean I'm going to try to be polite and sympathetic to issues. 

Otter otter otter otter
-- Otter. Otter oter otter otter waterweasel.

---

Anyhow, that's my personal code of conduct. I try to stick to it as best I can, but I'm only human. And a flawed one at that.

As for the UI update, I've poked a few people to get a ball or two rolling on that, including someone I"ve been looking to get involved in FA coding help for a while. THis happened... two nights ago, so I don't even know if it'll pan out, but I'm hopeful. I'm just as eager for the new UI as anyone; I just lack the skills to work on it myself (Image Not Found, nonwithstanding)

The last issue, Communication.

Our internal communication kinda sucks. I can't deny that. I and a few other admins are doing what we can to try to keep information flowing internally (trying to cross-post and keeping the FAF staff up to date, send each other notes), as well as communicating to the userbase when we have site issues (Such as the slow site and upload issues of the last few nights). I *think* we're improving on that front. I'd like to think it, at least.

That's about it, methinks. 

Oh!

One last thing.

BUY MY MAGAZINE!!!!!

Okay, no, the serious last thing. Mmm. I don't know how to word this without opening up an... interesting can of worms, but...

If you have any suggestions for an admin code of conduct, particularly my personal one, feel free to send me a note on the mainsite, or a PM on the forum here. I always like giving my opinions on this stuff when I'm not staff, and I'd like to be able to take it when I am staff.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 23, 2011)

Is there a particular reason why the staff code of conduct is being kept hidden and out of bounds for discussion? Is there actually a sensible, practical reason? Or is it one of those cases of keeping information back so certain people can feel special that they're more clued in than everyone else.

Transparency with that kind of stuff is a good thing.

At the moment, staff are working towards some invisible conduct rules, so if one does something that seems a bit odd, we just have to accept that it is actually covered in the rules for them, rather than them using the fact that we don't know what it is to push their own agendas or alliances. Plus, if conduct rules were known, then users could check if admin or moderator actions conformed with those rules before throwing a drama shitfit about mods being out to get them.

It would probably cut down on drama sites milking vague or out of character moderating. It would mean people can see how to bypass those rules for their own purposes, but if the rules are tight enough, that can be got around, even if it means updating them when a loophole is uncovered.

At the moment though, it just feels like some big club of people allowed to know the rules of the game, and dictating it to the peons as they see fit.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 23, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> I went back and checked. He did say there was a private one that's top secret so only Dragoneer's best friends get to see it but there was going to be a public one at some unspecified time.



First off, I'm not a he.

Second. I was there to clean up someone else's mess about the CoC announcement which left not only users confused but staff.
I asked for an official position on it. The CoC mentioned was not actually supposed to be a public release, but the message got taken as such. It was that the CoC was to be created and enforced so that people know one exists I suppose to placate concerns there is no set of standards or accounability. However, to make it more confusing, we were asked what revisions to make. So that doesn't sound like it was actually finished, does it?

The CoC for the staff would be like an employee handbook and not everything in those handbooks are released to the public. You don't see everyone's employee contract and NDA along with trade secrets for companies, so yes it's a private document for supervisors to use for their employees. That is why I closed the topic because that message sent out was confusing.

That being said, it didn't mean that we shouldn't release some guidelines so the public knows general standards of behavior we should be adhering to. This would still be to the understanding that the public isn't to play the public shaming game to get someone off the team. This would still be the call of those in charge.
Unfortunately given the track record of making deadlines and progress, the hell if I'm going to set an ETA on a document for the public when I don't run the site. It would make me accountable for someone's deadline. 

So finally, I'm not the person you need to take up whatever fight you have with that.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 23, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> The CoC for the staff would be like an employee handbook and not everything in those handbooks are released to the public. You don't see everyone's employee contract and NDA along with trade secrets for companies, so yes it's a private document for supervisors to use for their employees. That is why I closed the topic because that message sent out was confusing.



Thing with that though, is an Employees Handbook, the sections pertaining to customers would be a pretty standard set of rules. Ones you can expect in pretty much any place that deals in the same merchandise. Sites like this though, there is no standard already set, so the customer or user has nothing to base things on.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 23, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> First off, I'm not a he.
> 
> Second. I was there to clean up someone else's mess about the CoC announcement which left not only users confused but staff.



Sorry. It's my default when I don't know.

Wasn't it Dragoneer that announced it? The announcement was on the main page. If it was misinterpreted why didn't he just make a post saying it wasn't going to be released? And why even make an announcement about something we wouldn't be shown? I suppose you can't answer it all but it's just really frustrating when something is said and then there isn't attempt to clarify afterwards. I also feel like noting that I mentioned the CoC and its release in an article I wrote on Flayrah and sent to Dragoneer for comment. He mentioned some figures being off but never made an attempt to correct what I said about the CoC.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 23, 2011)

Well,

We have 2 co owners now correct? We have more staff. Yet who is here to at least have the decency to reply, regardless if one agrees with your arguments or not.

Just giving you something to think about since it is 4 months later.


----------



## Armaetus (Oct 23, 2011)

ITT Mostly* more of the same usual nonsense from FA staff :V 

I've seen only one post by what I assume is one of the Furocity members that posted in the "Summer" update thread on progress, but not much since then. As usual, Yak being quiet on everything code related which bothers me.

*Note mostly, not everyone is being hush-hush/silent about it, like Arshes and Summercat. I applaud their openness in posting.


----------



## Ben (Oct 23, 2011)

Actually, it's been 3 and a half months since the original announcement; the full integration didn't occur until August. So it hasn't really been that long. Gavin's also a Furfright staff member in addition to having a job outside of this, so I can understand if things aren't moving along much yet. I still think that FA should be far more advanced than from where it is today, considering how much more attractive SoFurry and InkBunny look, but I definitely don't think anything being the way it is is Gavin or the Furocity staff's fault.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 23, 2011)

Ben said:


> Actually, it's been 3 and a half months since the original announcement; the full integration didn't occur until August. So it hasn't really been that long. Gavin's also a Furfright staff member in addition to having a job outside of this, so I can understand if things aren't moving along much yet. I still think that FA should be far more advanced than from where it is today, considering how much more attractive SoFurry and InkBunny look, but I definitely don't think anything being the way it is is Gavin or the Furocity staff's fault.



Really Ben, does it take 3 months to say hello to the staff or members?


----------



## Ben (Oct 23, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Really Ben, does it take 3 months to say hello to the staff or members?



What? I wasn't even talking about anything like that. Was just pointing out that it's understandable why there hasn't been much progress yet since he's so busy, and that things should have been happening long before Gavin got here. I mean, he could do something like that, but that's up to him I guess. I didn't know they hadn't been talking to the rest of the staff though, so.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 23, 2011)

Ben said:


> What? I wasn't even talking about anything like that. Was just pointing out that it's understandable why there hasn't been much progress yet since he's so busy, and that things should have been happening long before Gavin got here. I mean, he could do something like that, but that's up to him I guess. I didn't know they hadn't been talking to the rest of the staff though, so.



Every staff member is busy. I guess we can use that excuse.

What I am trying to say is that if FA people volunteered, it's been debated numerous times that "Busy" is not an excuse. We got a merger. This is with the understanding that we need staff. You shouldn't be using "busy" as an excuse. "Hi, let's co-op, but I'm busy as soon as we do this" what?

This is outside of the situation itself, I'm just mentioning that your defense would not be a defense for people who are also new (we did get new staff members outside Furocity) as an excuse for them.


----------



## Bobskunk (Oct 23, 2011)

Summercat said:


> Re the code of conduct...
> 
> *Can't talk about the internal documents*....



ahaha what a joke

There is no internal communication, there is only very bad external communication, everything is couched in State Secrecy level theatrics and a STASI-like hammering of leaks when a staff code of conduct, even a draft, is almost inconsequential and publishing it when it SHOULD HAVE BEEN READY MONTHS AGO cannot possibly harm FA in any way.  It's not like you're being asked to dump the entire source code of FA (and yes i know only dragoneer has the authority to authorize any communication, apparently, hence the complete lack of it).

The fact that you would get pounded for even giving any indication of this code of conduct (which everyone does AND SHOULD assume is a load of bullshit that doesn't exist and that the staff is not being held to any kind of standard other than hyperparanoid secrecy) or stupid gossip while the hacking/notes leak was almost downplayed and never really explained.

The sanctity of the secret club is more important than actually doing anything.  "We can't do our jobs if we aren't allowed to be frank in private" line is also a load.  God damn.

P.S. nobody actually believes that Gavin is on the same decision-making level as Dragoneer, right?


----------



## Smelge (Oct 23, 2011)

Who the flying fuck is Gavin.

Who are all these new staff members?

I've not seen a single one around. So they must be pretty effective.


----------



## Accountability (Oct 23, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> The CoC for the staff would be like an employee handbook and not everything in those handbooks are released to the public. You don't see everyone's employee contract and NDA along with trade secrets for companies, so yes it's a private document for supervisors to use for their employees.



Many companies (both public and private, small and large) make their employee handbooks and ethical guidelines available online to save money. Granted, they don't have detailed operational procedure documents available, but anyone can see how employees are told to act and behave.

There is *no* reason an art gallery website full of volunteers couldn't do the same. This whole thing reminds me of when I was in grade school, and we'd have clubs with super top secret documents that were really not important at all. They were only super top secret because it felt special to have something and not let others outside the club see it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 24, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> The CoC for the staff would be like an employee handbook and not everything in those handbooks are released to the public. You don't see everyone's employee contract and NDA along with trade secrets for companies, so yes it's a private document for supervisors to use for their employees. That is why I closed the topic because that message sent out was confusing.
> 
> That being said, it didn't mean that we shouldn't release some guidelines so the public knows general standards of behavior we should be adhering to. This would still be to the understanding that the public isn't to play the public shaming game to get someone off the team. This would still be the call of those in charge.
> Unfortunately given the track record of making deadlines and progress, the hell if I'm going to set an ETA on a document for the public when I don't run the site. It would make me accountable for someone's deadline.
> ...



It blows my mind that people will bother with the first paragraph  and ignore the ones below it. I decided to re-quote myself because really guys, that's pretty shameful.

Either it's a tl;dr problem, people worried bout their "internet hero" rep that if they didn't niggle something to look like they're fighting for the "cause of the people" (and their popularity)...or they just like arguing for the sake of arguing.


----------



## CannonFodder (Oct 24, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Either it's a tl;dr problem, people worried bout their "internet hero" rep that if the didn't niggle something to look like they're fighting for the "cause of the people" (and their popularity)...or they just like arguing for the sake of arguing.


*goddamn facepalm*
Is that really what the site staff thinks of the forum?


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 24, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> *goddamn facepalm*
> Is that really what the site staff thinks of the forum?



There are 3 options there, presented by a single person. I'm not sure how you converted that into a single opinion held by the whole group.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 24, 2011)

These last two posts can some up a whole host of problems across the world.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 24, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> There are 3 options there, presented by a single person. I'm not sure how you converted that into a single opinion held by the whole group.



Not to mention the reply reiterated the whole problem. Take one thing out of context and just use that as a basis for attack. Or even turned it "this is the opinion of what the staff thinks of the ENTIRE forum". Seriously? Really?


----------



## Corto (Oct 24, 2011)

ITT pleople don't know how context works.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 24, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not to mention the reply reiterated the whole problem. Take one thing out of context and just use that as a basis for attack. Or even turned it "this is the opinion of what the staff thinks of the ENTIRE forum". Seriously? Really?


but thats Cannonfodder...its normal for them to do that


----------



## Dragoneer (Oct 25, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> So firstly, there's "Additional coding expertise". The Summer update never arrived, and I've noticed no additions to the "technical staff" on the FA Staff page. Is there any progress with integrating the two teams yet? Any ETA on any projects, new or old?


Yes and no. Things are improving, but we need to make some changes on the backend to better support the community. On the plus side, tickets are being responded to faster and more accurately. There is still much to work on, and right now one of the things we need to do is re-vamp the ticketing system to better provide support. That said, almost 1,000 trouble tickets have been closed out within the past two weeks time (which is pretty significant).



LizardKing said:


> Expanding the community? Improving end-user support? Are these things still under discussion? It all seemed very exciting and interesting at the time, but since then... nothing. Maybe I've missed some news on the Twitter feed or some such, but so far it seems dreadfully quiet for such a large event. I'm not expecting any major announcements or anything, but a simple update on the progress so far would be nice. How about some stats on the trouble tickets? Had headway been made on the backlog since the new staff came on board?


No ETAs on things, but there are some changes. One of the biggest hurdles holding things back was restructuring the file system (which is done now). The UI has undergone some changes since it was first proposed, but I don't have an ETA on that. ETAs, me and FA have not had any good luck. We've gotten a lot of feedback on things, and we're trying to incorporate that into the site.



LizardKing said:


> For an event that seemed fairly notable in the history of FA, there seems to have been very little to come of it so far :c


There's a lot in planning, but we're not rushing into it.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 25, 2011)

'Neer, my honest suggestion to use is to you is to work on a usable beta version, similar to what SoFurry has done. It doesn't have to be perfect (hell, who would expect it to be), but just getting something out there would do wonders for not only the skeptics, bu for new and loyal users alike.

Of course, I understand this might not be feasible in the near future (or perhaps ever? I don't know what'd have Togo into running a beta version of the site along side the current site), but a public release of -something-, whether or not it's a list of the things completed so far, or pictures of how the UI is shaping up, or both, is frankly needed. You said yourself you haven't had luck with ETAs, and the fact of the matter is that your "Summer Update" in the eyes of many users has ended up being a fairy tale.

The userbase would probably appreciate some reassurance that your still working on this.

Of course, some users will never be satiated because you "broke a promise", but for them just imagine they are Veruca Salt singing her little song about "Don't care how, I want it now!"


----------



## Dragoneer (Oct 25, 2011)

Xenke said:


> 'Neer, my honest suggestion to use is to you is to work on a usable beta version, similar to what SoFurry has done. It doesn't have to be perfect (hell, who would expect it to be), but just getting something out there would do wonders for not only the skeptics, bu for new and loyal users alike.
> 
> Of course, I understand this might not be feasible in the near future (or perhaps ever? I don't know what'd have Togo into running a beta version of the site along side the current site), but a public release of -something-, whether or not it's a list of the things completed so far, or pictures of how the UI is shaping up, or both, is frankly needed. You said yourself you haven't had luck with ETAs, and the fact of the matter is that your "Summer Update" in the eyes of many users has ended up being a fairy tale.


This has always been my goal, honestly, once we get everything in a state where we're ready to make it public. Things are delayed, yes, and I'm not at all happy with the way things have been handled on my part. I had a very poor communication failure, but I am moving forward. I am quiet, yes, but I am focusing on moving the site forward.


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 25, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Yes and no. Things are improving, but we need to make some changes on the backend to better support the community.



Backend as in hardware? Code? Policies? Communication?



Dragoneer said:


> On the plus side, tickets are being responded to faster and more accurately. ... That said, almost 1,000 trouble tickets have been closed out within the past two weeks time (which is pretty significant).



Neato.



Dragoneer said:


> There is still much to work on, and right now one of the things we need to do is re-vamp the ticketing system to better provide support.



Re-vamp as in re-code? Is Yak still alone in that endeavour?



Dragoneer said:


> There's a lot in planning, but we're not rushing into it.



Anything you wish to share? :3


----------



## Smelge (Oct 25, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> This has always been my goal, honestly, once we get everything in a state where we're ready to make it public. Things are delayed, yes, and I'm not at all happy with the way things have been handled on my part. I had a very poor communication failure, but I am moving forward. I am quiet, yes, but I am focusing on moving the site forward.



It takes a minute to respond to people, or to explain whats happening.


----------



## Dragoneer (Oct 25, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Backend as in hardware? Code? Policies? Communication?


All of the above, honestly.

And there's lots to do. Just wish I had more time to do it.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 25, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> All of the above, honestly.
> 
> And there's lots to do. Just wish I had more time to do it.


then again let some other folks take the load...but nah its best for you to do everything :V


----------



## kayfox (Oct 25, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> All of the above, honestly.
> 
> And there's lots to do. Just wish I had more time to do it.



People have offered to help you, to help Yak, to help in general...


----------



## Dragoneer (Oct 25, 2011)

kayfox said:


> People have offered to help you, to help Yak, to help in general...


I'm not doing this all myself, and we have taken on help.


----------



## Kihari (Oct 25, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> once we get everything in a state where we're ready to make it public



Could you perhaps elaborate just a bit on what being _ready for the public_ would entail? I take this to mean you're heading towards a full-blown and fully- or mostly-functional setup that would allow folks to actually bang their fists on the thing (which would be just dandy, if that's the plan).

If you're referring to other things Xenke mentioned (like a progress report or fresh screencaps), does this mean that parts of the new UI and backend are as yet up on the drawing board?


----------



## timoran (Oct 26, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I'm not doing this all myself, and we have taken on help.



Who? I must have missed the introductions of the new help.


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 26, 2011)

This is redundant. A thread which merely goes over the basic concepts concept of FA: The lack of proper hardware, software, and administration
-Users are regularly being fed half-assed excuses and false promises. My bad, falls under "lack of proper administration".
-The forums are better than the actual site. Oh wait, "lack of decent software".
-Hardware has to be updated nearly twice a year because stuff. And this would probably be "lack of decent hardware".


----------



## ZENX49 (Oct 26, 2011)

I've been on FA for several years now and haven't really dealt with enough problems to be joining some angry mob of torches and pitchforks. Call me Pollyanna, but we should be happy with what works right now. As long as FA itself is acquiring the assistance it would from the co-administration merger, we shouldn't be rabbling on in this ridiculous, circular demand of answers on the ETA of the site's changes and progressions. If there's nothing to say on the matter because things are as tied up as they are, then there's only one simple, viable answer to gain from it. There is no ETA on all this yet. I just hear a lot of impatience and people getting bent out of shape because FA isn't "prettier" or more properly administrated by now. A lot of people here seem to be very quick to forget that the full-time administration and constant improvements of things isn't the sole life and purpose of the staff here. While FA is in fact a big site, it's still got a lot of steps to take before it can get as organized. It won't happen over the summer as clearly seen.

Patience is a fine, fine virtue you can learn any time in your life. Try not hounding Dragoneer all the damn time on the status of things. It hasn't sped up anything before and I highly doubt it will speed things up now, tomorrow, or any other point in time. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't ask questions, god no. Believe me, I've wanted to ask questions myself on the matter. I know that won't at any point speed things up either. Let's just not try to play the devil's advocate at every turn on the matter though, seriously.


----------



## jayhusky (Oct 26, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> kayfox said:
> 
> 
> > People have offered to help you, to help Yak, to help in general...
> ...



I've offered to help out on occassion. Even if I was just answering Trouble Tickets, it still helps to free up some more time for staff to do work on other things about the site. But while I'm talking about the site, we still ought to be thankful that its not a subscription site and that changes (albeit slowly) are being made.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 26, 2011)

jayhusky said:


> I've offered to help out on occassion. Even if I was just answering Trouble Tickets, it still helps to free up some more time for staff to do work on other things about the site. But while I'm talking about the site, we still ought to be thankful that its not a subscription site and that changes (albeit slowly) are being made.



Thousands of people have offered to help. Some, more valuable than others.

The problem is, if they have no idea who you are they aren't going to trust you with FA's back end.


----------



## Kihari (Oct 26, 2011)

I wondered when the defense would show up.

I know I can't speak for anybody else, but I'll say this: I think everyone here understands exactly what FA is--it's a relatively large site that grew out of one guy's crummy PHP project, now being run by a pretty small group of people. That's got to be a difficult and tiring task, and it surely eats into a lot of the staff's collective free time.

We _get _that.

The reason that the "angry mob with their torches and pitchforks" shows up all the time is that it's just _so damn unbelievably irritating _to see the kind of stuff that gets complained about happening _over and over again_. Things that defy common sense, things that defy even the simplest logic, they keep happening all the time--and then people show up and it's like they don't even care. When you get to a certain level of understanding about something and you see people like that, it just blows your mind!

I guess I just can't understand doing things the wrong way (so defined by many knowledgeable people who _used _to hang around here) and not trying to fix it _immediately_ (not years and years down the road), and I also can't grasp the apathy of a lot of these folks. Maybe that's just how my mind works.

I'd like to think that people do their damnedest at what they do just for the satisfaction of a job well done. It doesn't matter if the service is free or via subscription; you're doing something and you should want to say, "Look what we've put into this, look at all the work we were able to do to make this so much better," and be _proud_ of what you've done, even if that's the only reward you get for doing it.

And I think a lot of people would positively jump and the chance to be able to do that for FA; but they never get the chance to help out, and then some new wave of mind-numbingly stupid shit goes down, and the only thing they can do is sit there and say, "_I_ wouldn't have done things that way; _I_ would have prevented this from ever happening!"

It's easy to see how this whole thing causes so much rage.

I know I'm going on and on about a furry website, but that's kind of how I feel about a lot of other things in general, so yeah.


----------



## sandfox (Oct 28, 2011)

welp lots of admins have just resigned



			
				photografuhrer said:
			
		

> The site owners repeatedly gave all administrators, old and new, an Administrator Code Of Conduct, which stated that we were to only handle tickets that pertained to our departments (so that rulings could be made by people who understood the intricacies of the art form), as well as how to act professionally. From day-one, some of the original FA administrators have blatantly ignored the Admin Code Of Conduct, repeatedly handling trouble tickets outside of their departments (after countless warnings from owners, and while their own departmentsâ€™ Terms Of Service tickets go unresolved), undermined and overturned Department Headsâ€™ rulings, shown gross ignorance towards the AUP, spread false information about the AUP and site policies, botched countless trouble ticket rulings, acted unprofessionally, leaked private site information, and have intentionally hampered the ticket/administration process at every turn (we have found proof of this from chat logs, notes, and trouble tickets). Their actions have been childish, petty, and detrimental to the site and its users. The original site owner has known about this gross misconduct, but no action has been taken and nothing has improved. We found evidence in trouble tickets, chat logs, and notes that some of the FA admins were intentionally leaking private information, ignoring site policy, and trying to sabotage the administrative process. The original site owner (Dragoneer) has not effectively reprimanded or fired ANY of the offending admins under his leadership. Every gross violation and problem is met with weak excuses, indifference, and endless second chances. There is no leadership or follow-through.
> 
> People with little or no administrative experience, who know nothing about photography, are striving to alter the AUP and destroy the works of fellow photographers and the art form I love.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 28, 2011)

Ooh, four admins gone. FA is starting to crack. Wonder if Dragoneer will say anything about the admins leaving or just ignore it and hope as few people hear about it as possible.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 28, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Ooh, four admins gone. FA is starting to crack. Wonder if Dragoneer will say anything about the admins leaving or just ignore it and hope as few people hear about it as possible.



I wouldn't go that far. Because of the timing of this, not much could be done last night before sane people in North America went to sleep. We (the FA staff) are not going to ignore this. We are currently just waiting for things to develop a bit more.

Personally, I feel the assertions made are unfair (at the very least), and only show one viewpoint of a situation.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 28, 2011)

Summercat said:
			
		

> I wouldn't go that far. Because of the timing of this, not much could be  done last night before sane people in North America went to sleep. We  (the FA staff) are not going to ignore this. We are currently just  waiting for things to develop a bit more.
> 
> Personally, I feel the assertions made are unfair (at the very least), and only show one viewpoint of a situation.



I don't know. The users here have been complaining about poor leadership and communication for a long time and apparently it's just as bad behind the scenes. Remember this isn't the first time that admins have complained about poor communication. Dragoneer himself seldom posts, even when it was his comments on the CoC that spawned a lot of debate. The admins that resigned are the ones from Furocity who were meant to bring better leadership and new skills so we're back where we were in the start. This makes the staff situation in FA even worse than it already was (http://www.flayrah.com/3657/analysis-fur-affinitys-staff-revamped-dev-team-still-lacking).

Yes, they are one view (though one that's been echoed many times) but history tells us that we aren't going to get any reassurance from site leadership. If anything there will be one or two admins trying to keep people happy but not able to actually make decisions or promises for things to improve. Sort of keeping to that theme I saw Dragoneer on the forum earlier but now he's gone and he didn't make any comment here.


----------



## ramsay_baggins (Oct 28, 2011)

-Snip-


----------



## Dragoneer (Oct 28, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Ooh, four admins gone. FA is starting to crack. Wonder if Dragoneer will say anything about the admins leaving or just ignore it and hope as few people hear about it as possible.


Somebody decided to "dox" the admins, and posted their findings last night in a release. Some of the Furocity admins didn't take too well to that, and outright left over the doxing in and of itself. I can't comment on the other issues, because as of right now both myself and Daemonshyai have been blindsided by it. 

I'm trying to find out more about the details right now, and what they're claiming.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 28, 2011)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Somebody decided to "dox" the admins, and posted their findings last  night in a release. Some of the Furocity admins didn't take too well to  that, and outright left over the doxing in and of itself. I can't  comment on the other issues, because as of right now both myself and  Daemonshyai have been blindsided by it.
> 
> I'm trying to find out more about the details right now, and what they're claiming.



Noted. I'll wait for you to learn more then, although I can't help thinking that there shouldn't be things like staff unrest that take you completely by surprise. Just don't forget to communicate with the users. You are still seen as the main decider of FA's policies and when there is drama people want to hear from you. Staying silent does not help user confidence.


----------



## Dragoneer (Oct 28, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Noted. I'll wait for you to learn more then, although I can't help thinking that there shouldn't be things like staff unrest that take you completely by surprise. Just don't forget to communicate with the users. You are still seen as the main decider of FA's policies and when there is drama people want to hear from you. Staying silent does not help user confidence.


And you're completely right on that, but if issues aren't communicated to me then there's little I can do about them. We're re-coding the entire ticketing system to make it more efficient and easier to manage, and allow Moderators of our choosing to help regulate the site as well by reporting submissions. We've been doing a lot to improve things, but if basic communication breaks down...

All I know is that one of the admins who left last night came into admin chat concerned about the "dox", and everybody left all at once (pretty much within an hour).


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 28, 2011)

Huh. Well that's not exactly how I thought this thread would end. 

Photografuhrer's post doesn't seem related to the dox though. Maybe it just seemed like a good opportunity?  Â¯\(Âº_o)/Â¯


----------



## Xenke (Oct 28, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> We're re-coding the entire ticketing system to make it more efficient and easier to manage, and allow Moderators of our choosing to help regulate the site as well by reporting submissions.



....Wut.

I only see two ways to interpret this. Either, you're saying that forum mods will be able to report submissions (which they should be able to do already?), or you're saying that you're going to be adding a status to site members as "moderator", which has no role different from "member" other than to report submissions (which is something that all users should be doing, and be able to do, already). Now, for the sake of my post, I'm going to assume the latter (feel free to say "that's not what we had in mind" and disregard if this is indeed the case).

What does this accomplish? It seems like it'd just muddle up the TT system. Would the tickets by "moderators" have higher priority over those submitted by regular users, and if so, why would normal users even both filing reports if they can get a moderator to do it for them with higher expediency? Wouldn't you need to have a ton of moderators just to cover FA at all hours of the day, and isn't this why it's better just to have users report everything? Would moderators have any sort of power or pull over the site, or would they just be titled reporting machines?

Like, honestly, I don't really understand what you're saying, and I can't infer any logical reason why you'd say it. Additionally, I honestly hope you're not going to abandon the department-style admin structure, seeing as I thought the concept was fairly sound (if badly implemented). It falls in with "have some of the people focus on part of the work, instead of everyone trying to be an expert about every facet of it".

((Ã—Ã— MANY SPECULATEY WORDS, I FEEL THEY WON'T PAY OFF Ã—Ã—))


----------



## Summercat (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> ....Wut.
> 
> I only see two ways to interpret this. Either, you're saying that forum mods will be able to report submissions (which they should be able to do already?), or you're saying that you're going to be adding a status to site members as "moderator", which has no role different from "member" other than to report submissions (which is something that all users should be doing, and be able to do, already). Now, for the sake of my post, I'm going to assume the latter (feel free to say "that's not what we had in mind" and disregard if this is indeed the case).
> 
> ...



Just two comments..

1) We're not having the moderators replace the ticket system entirely. No worries on that. 

2) I do believe we're keeping the department scheme in some fashion. We already had been heading that way as things were, anyhow.

I'm not going to make promises of sunshine and rainbows and lollipops, though.


----------



## Ben (Oct 28, 2011)

Well this is certainly the last thing I expected. Huh.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Huh. Well that's not exactly how I thought this thread would end.
> 
> Photografuhrer's post doesn't seem related to the dox though. Maybe it just seemed like a good opportunity?  Â¯\(Âº_o)/Â¯



That would probably be a fair assessment. Though his post doesn't seem to be accurate.


----------



## MandertehPander (Oct 28, 2011)

Whelp.


----------



## Informaticspro (Oct 28, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I can't comment on the other issues, because as of right now both myself and Daemonshyai have been blindsided by it.



You mean despite the repeated notes, e-mails, forum posts, SECURITY BREACHES, and likely PHONE CALLS, you're BLINDSIDED by this?

Really? REALLY?!

Pure incompetence.


----------



## Corto (Oct 28, 2011)

Oh please do point us towards the repeated forum posts that warned Neer of Furocity staff quitting. Or of some random wannabe hacker using Google on his nickname.


----------



## Informaticspro (Oct 28, 2011)

Corto said:


> Oh please do point us towards the repeated forum posts that warned Neer of Furocity staff quitting. Or of some random wannabe hacker using Google on his nickname.



If you couldn't see the only COMPETENT staff leaving after witnessing for themselves how FA is run, you're ignorant.

If you couldn't see this coming with the dox, you're just reaching levels of retardation only caused by inbred genetic defects.

I also know I left one message on 'Neer's phone.

But hey, you can play as if you know anything. It's plainly obvious your brain isn't functional enough.


----------



## Corto (Oct 28, 2011)

There's so much wrong with that post. Either way, good bye.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, I do know that there were Furocity staff that directly blamed Neer for the dox...which honestly has me scratching my head. I do know that not all of them blame Neer for it.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 28, 2011)

personally i believe the whole "dox" thing (whatever that means...) isnt what caused all this. when i read the journals and user infos of the staff members who left then it appears to me that this was just the straw to break the camel's back.
especially what photografuhrer wrote is pretty interesting for me... this IS a free service and the staff IS doing this for free, but when you are taking a job you should still do it the best way you can and play by the rules, especially when you are responsible for such a large community. and _if_ what photografuhrer said is true (which i cant judge of course but i dont see a reason why he should lie) then the staff should completely reconsider how the site is being handled.


----------



## Accountability (Oct 28, 2011)

People left over _that_? It wasn't even done well! Quitting over it only makes the doxers think they did something when all they did was a really bad job.



Dragoneer said:


> allow Moderators of our choosing to help regulate the site as well by reporting submissions.



This is an awful idea. Why not set up a "Report Submission" button on each submission page that will only let the user click it once, and then create a new part of the admin CP that will list reported submissions with the ones reported the most on top? This should speed things up because it would remove duplicate trouble tickets and save a lot of time for both users and admins.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 28, 2011)

Accountability said:


> This is an awful idea. Why not set up a "Report Submission" button on each submission page that will only let the user click it once, and then create a new part of the admin CP that will list reported submissions with the ones reported the most on top? This should speed things up because it would remove duplicate trouble tickets and save a lot of time for both users and admins.



thats a great idea. it would speed everything up a lot and reports might actually be taken care off for once... nothing would pile up.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 28, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> I don't know. The users here have been complaining about poor leadership and communication for a long time and apparently it's just as bad behind the scenes. Remember this isn't the first time that admins have complained about poor communication. Dragoneer himself seldom posts, even when it was his comments on the CoC that spawned a lot of debate. The admins that resigned are the ones from Furocity who were meant to bring better leadership and new skills so we're back where we were in the start. This makes the staff situation in FA even worse than it already was (http://www.flayrah.com/3657/analysis-fur-affinitys-staff-revamped-dev-team-still-lacking).
> 
> Yes, they are one view (though one that's been echoed many times) but history tells us that we aren't going to get any reassurance from site leadership. If anything there will be one or two admins trying to keep people happy but not able to actually make decisions or promises for things to improve. Sort of keeping to that theme I saw Dragoneer on the forum earlier but now he's gone and he didn't make any comment here.



It is true that users have made issue with supposed poor leadership and lack of communication. However we on our part have been doing better about communicating with the user-base. It has not always been perfect. However we are not perfect people. We are working to the best of our ability to improve on all aspects of things that do need improvement. For this I can assure is true. We are now more consistent than we have been in the past with updating the users when the site goes down or goes through maintenance. Things no longer go to twitter or live journal before showing up here. We have also made huge strides in clarifying the rules so users can understand them much better.

However one must also remember that amongst the critical points brought up against us that have merits there have also been a whole host of silliness and one sided accusations(some pretty wild ones too Imo). One of the biggest things I still see users complain about is having to follow the rules. So take what you hear with a grain of salt. Those who speak do not always speak truthfully. Those who talk do not always fully communicate their full motives or true grievances. Sometimes what should/needs to be said has to be balanced with what is appropriate.

I will say that there is no corruption going on behind the scenes that I know of. There are no leaks of information so to speak that I've heard of. I cannot for the life of me understand why some people have said some things that they have and so we will have to take some time to fully understand what charges are being lobbed against us and why. So try to please be patient as we work though this bump in the road.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> personally i believe the whole "dox" thing (whatever that means...) isnt what caused all this. when i read the journals and user infos of the staff members who left then it appears to me that this was just the straw to break the camel's back.
> especially what photografuhrer wrote is pretty interesting for me... this IS a free service and the staff IS doing this for free, but when you are taking a job you should still do it the best way you can and play by the rules, especially when you are responsible for such a large community. and _if_ what photografuhrer said is true (which i cant judge of course but i dont see a reason why he should lie) then the staff should completely reconsider how the site is being handled.



No, there's certainly enough and valid blame about communication issues and other site problems. But I think I should say, since I did reply earlier...what exact stake do I have to lie about his statement being inaccurate too? 

I know it will be seen as a finger pointing game with a No U and this is really my personal viewpoint not necessarily the representation of the entire site. 

I think I've stated enough times there are communication problems and had to get my butt in trouble by being very blunt and sometimes deemed as too open with site problems. I'm certainly not without my own mistakes either. However, if I want more communication and WANT the site to get better, I've felt I needed to address site issues from time to time brought up on our forums - clarification I've ENCOURAGED other site admins to help address forum posts to help our userbase.

This may probably get my butt in trouble again. I just find the whole situation rather dumbfounding to a degree.


----------



## Qoph (Oct 28, 2011)

I like the idea of a 'report submission' button to take users to the trouble ticket screen, but I don't like the 'list of reported submissions' idea.  If the system were implemented, I doubt that the most reported submissions would have more than a few 'votes' each.  Duplicate tickets really aren't much of an issue, except when some troll starts posting his dick or something like that.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> No, there's certainly enough and valid blame about communication issues and other site problems. But I think I should say, since I did reply earlier...what exact stake do I have to lie about his statement being inaccurate too?
> 
> I know it will be seen as a finger pointing game with a No U and this is really my personal viewpoint not necessarily the representation of the entire site.
> 
> ...



yeah, i have seen that you are always rather open about internal affairs of the site and staff and i appreciate that. personally i think it would be a shame if you got in trouble because of this since you are just pointing out the truth. but that seems to piss off some people here...


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 28, 2011)

Qoph said:


> I like the idea of a 'report submission' button to take users to the trouble ticket screen, but I don't like the 'list of reported submissions' idea.  If the system were implemented, I doubt that the most reported submissions would have more than a few 'votes' each.  Duplicate tickets really aren't much of an issue, except when some troll starts posting his dick or something like that.



I would like it to be where once an item is reported it can't be reported again. That removes the possible build up of duplicate tickets and also will give users a prompt so they know something was reported.


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 28, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> I would like it to be where once an item is reported it can't be reported again. That removes the possible build up of duplicate tickets and also will give users a prompt so they know something was reported.



Alternatively, like the reported forum post/PMs where it just adds on replies after the first. Presumably this would also bump it to the top of the queue again.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 28, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Alternatively, like the reported forum post/PMs where it just adds on replies after the first. Presumably this would also bump it to the top of the queue again.



this sounds like a good idea. People can report multiple times and someone may have new info, but it all gets added to the same ticket or ticket group.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> yeah, i have seen that you are always rather open about internal affairs of the site and staff and i appreciate that. personally i think it would be a shame if you got in trouble because of this since you are just pointing out the truth. but that seems to piss off some people here...



Thanks for understanding. I rather like Grammatist and will miss him -  he was a very reasonable admin. I'm sad to see him leave. His input was very valuable. I'm sad that the dox incident scared him away (per his journal). 

To be perfectly honest, I don't really know the other admins because I don't think they made an effort to know/understand the rest of the staff and I tried to get them to...I bear no hate but it was frustrating to say the last.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 28, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Alternatively, like the reported forum post/PMs where it just adds on replies after the first. Presumably this would also bump it to the top of the queue again.



That is a perfect and excellent suggestion. :3


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 28, 2011)

Has anyone actually talked to the admins after this? I mean really, the stuff released was mostly nothing more than Google searches and some WHOIS info. Any moron could do that if they so desired, at any time. Either them leaving _purely_ because of the release shows some major misunderstanding of what was released and how it was obtained, or just an excuse to cover up a differing reason.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Thanks for understanding. I rather like Grammatist and will miss him -  he was a very reasonable admin. I'm sad to see him leave. His input was very valuable. I'm sad that the dox incident scared him away (per his journal).
> 
> To be perfectly honest, I don't really know the other admins because I don't think they made an effort to know/understand the rest of the staff and I tried to get them to...I bear no hate but it was frustrating to say the last.



the sad thing is that this whole thing didnt even have to do anything with FA  some douche with too much time ont heir hand just gathered some information with google and other tools, thats it. and i have heard they didnt even do such a great job at it...

but what you said there is a good example for the bad communication that you mentioned. FA has a GIANT amount of users. you cant manage a site like this with a staff in which everyone works for themselves! that is exactly why all these problems pop up all the time...



LizardKing said:


> Has anyone actually talked to the admins after this? I mean really, the stuff released was mostly nothing more than Google searches and some WHOIS info. Any moron could do that if they so desired, at any time. Either them leaving _purely_ because of the release shows some major misunderstanding of what was released and how it was obtained, or just an excuse to cover up a differing reason.


 
personally i believe that latter is the case as it seems. photografuhrer didnt even mention this dox thing. he left ONLY because most staff members seem to be handling the site rather badly. like i said before, the whole thing was probably just an excuse for the others to leave or simply the straw to break the camel's back


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Has anyone actually talked to the admins after this? I mean really, the stuff released was mostly nothing more than Google searches and some WHOIS info. Any moron could do that if they so desired, at any time. Either them leaving _purely_ because of the release shows some major misunderstanding of what was released and how it was obtained, or just an excuse to cover up a differing reason.



Yes, some came on rather hostile, but I do believe there were attempts to explain.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 28, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Has anyone actually talked to the admins after this? I mean really, the stuff released was mostly nothing more than Google searches and some WHOIS info. Any moron could do that if they so desired, at any time. Either them leaving _purely_ because of the release shows some major misunderstanding of what was released and how it was obtained, or just an excuse to cover up a differing reason.


I believe Neer and Gavin have been talking to people, but considering the emotional reactions some of the admins have had it's not going to be something like "oh well nevermind then, I'll join and it's all rainbows."


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> but what you said there is a good example for the bad communication that you mentioned. FA has a GIANT amount of users. you cant manage a site like this with a staff in which everyone works for themselves! that is exactly why all these problems pop up all the time...



You can't work if you decide only to follow 1 group when you have a whole new staff. You HAVE to get to know each other, otherwise you're just asking for problems to occur over differences of opinions on how to handle things (not that they won't but if you don't do the former the latter is more inevitable). You CANNOT get into an "US vs THEM" mentality or things will get nasty.

Just from my perspective, I'm not going to speak for the rest of staff. I WANTED To get to know them because you have to learn to deal with philosophies and personality quirks. I was not really the LET'S BE FRIENDS because I have to stay neutral. But I felt this was not happening.


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 28, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I believe Neer and Gavin have been talking to people, but considering the emotional reactions some of the admins have had it's not going to be something like "oh well nevermind then, I'll join and it's all rainbows."



I thought they would've been used to all this sort of bullshit by now. Was this their "Welcome to the fandom" gift package or something? Maybe once they've had a bit of time they'll come back, but it'd be sad (and somewhat silly) to see them leave purely because of this.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 28, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I thought they would've been used to all this sort of bullshit by now. Was this their "Welcome to the fandom" gift package or something? Maybe once they've had a bit of time they'll come back, but it'd be sad (and somewhat silly) to see them leave purely because of this.



Personally I think it's a little of column A and a little of column B. I think they are not used to this kind of intensity. It doesn't appear as if anyone was bored enough to spend the time googling them on the other site and it may have very well come as a surprise. I know I was a little surprised that it happened and was happy I wasn't a target. If that is the case then they ave every right to not want to be part of the site. 

But I also think it was on the back of communication issues which arshes already mentioned. There were communication flaws on both sides. The sad thing is I personally think a lot of progress was being made. A couple admins finally came over and talked to us giving some ideas. We may not have come off as our best at first but I certainly saw everyone reaching out and trying to amend that. 
It's fair that they wanted to leave, it's fair that they were frustrated, though I'm still disappointed with the way they left. There was no "better staff" in this situation, and any thoughts of such is exactly why the system was broken.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> You can't work if you decide only to follow 1 group when you have a whole new staff. You HAVE to get to know each other, otherwise you're just asking for problems to occur over differences of opinions on how to handle things (not that they won't but if you don't do the former the latter is more inevitable). You CANNOT get into an "US vs THEM" mentality or things will get nasty.
> 
> Just from my perspective, I'm not going to speak for the rest of staff. I WANTED To get to know them because you have to learn to deal with philosophies and personality quirks. I was not really the LET'S BE FRIENDS because I have to stay neutral. But I felt this was not happening.



yeah exactly. even if you get split up into groups for the specific departments you still have to talk to each other. thats what managing a site is all about! everyone has to be fully informed about all aspects of what is currently on the agenda. and that is obviously not happening! but since some actually flat out ignored the new code of conduct for the admins they might not even care in the slightest...
which in turn makes me (and i bet a lot of other users) wonder, why *I* should care about the rules? TTs arent being handled properly anyway! which, by the way, makes me also wonder why i even bothered reporting stuff if my TTs get handled by people who dont know anything about the AUP or the department they are messing around in...

edit: well! silver just quit as well :O


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 28, 2011)

Well this kinda sucks. Did any coders quit? That would be bad news considering how few there are already.


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 28, 2011)

Gavrill said:


> Well this kinda sucks. Did any coders quit? That would be bad news considering how few there are already.



lol, what coders?


----------



## Harik (Oct 28, 2011)

It's unfortunate, but there were really very few possible outcomes to this.    The furocity admins were brought over to help change the culture, so either the status-quo changed or they would.   In the end, they had an impossible job.

From skimming threads here I can see some of the issues they complained about being glossed over: They were told that departments shouldn't interfere with each other, but they were being overruled by people from different departments.   Well, what can you do?   Every organization has written and unwritten rules, and when the latter are stronger than the former you end up with problems.

There was a locked thead just a few weeks ago about a guy who was given the ok by photografurher then got his work deleted by someone else outside the photography moderation "department".   And photografuhrer himself stepped down because 

"The site owners repeatedly gave all administrators, old and new, an Administrator Code of Conduct, which stated that we were only to handle tickets that pertained to our departments (so that rulings could be made by people who understood the intracies of the art form), as well as how to act professionally. From day-one, some of the original FA administrators have blatently ignored the Admin Code of Conduct, repeatedly handling trouble tickets outside of their departments (after countless warnings from owners, and while their own departments' Terms of Service tickets go unresolved), undermined and overturned Department Heads' rulings, shown gross ignorance towards the AUP, spread false information about the AUP and site policies," ... etc etc etc.   It's not a glowing review of how things are handled internally.

I don't think it's fair to blame the "dox" on why the new blood left.  It seems much more likely that there's a culture of "do whatever" that fought back to the idea of rules that they actually had to follow.

It's a very unfortunate public airing of something that should have been *resolved* internally. Note, not _ignored_ internally, or glossed over, or whitewashed, or hushed up: actually resolved.


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

How long until Daemonshyai bows out

Or will he just continue to remain a completely silent and inattentive figure in the background?


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Fucking dammit people, can't you do anything right?

You've been pissing off a lot of your users, and now we lost decent admins, and considering the history of your so called "administration," I will gladly take on photografuhrer's word over any staff member's who pulls out a fucking defensive reply out of their hat, or swing the banhammer at anyone who calls on their shit.

I'm getting annoyed by constant robot generated replies of "OH WE HAVE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES" or "SOMETHING WENT WRONG YADDA YADDA YADDA" or WE'RE WORKING ON THE UPDATE." Either you do, or you don't. You don't go running us around in a damn maze of patience where every dead end is a minefield of bullcrap. It's what's causing users to leave, and it's causing users here to whine. (including myself) Hell if it weren't for the fact that people are too damn used to this site, it'd probably be dead if it were relatively new.

Of course I'm gonna be banned/bitched at by a bunch of people but fuck that. I'm sick of idling by, twiddling my goddamn thumbs waiting for people to pull their head out of their ass and realize the truth that things NEED to CHANGE. Open your goddamn eyes Piche. Smell the coffee. THIS is reality! This is YOUR SITE. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 28, 2011)

Harik said:


> It's unfortunate, but there were really very few possible outcomes to this.    The furocity admins were brought over to help change the culture, so either the status-quo changed or they would.   In the end, they had an impossible job.
> 
> From skimming threads here I can see some of the issues they complained about being glossed over: They were told that departments shouldn't interfere with each other, but they were being overruled by people from different departments.   Well, what can you do?   Every organization has written and unwritten rules, and when the latter are stronger than the former you end up with problems.
> 
> ...



Which is what I thought we were doing. There *was* a disconnect between the admins from Furocity, and everyone else... but I thought that we had actually started the process of talking over issues and getting these conflicts resolved. Sure, I wasn't happy, but I'm here to help the users. It's why I wanted to be an admin in the first place, so I was willing to work with them and through a new process - if the process made sense.

This sort of reaction really blindsided everyone, because it's... sorta the opposite direction that we thought we were heading. As much as I've had issues with some of the former admins, I thought we were working to resolve this and avoid, well, a public blowup that would hurt FA.


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Summercat said:


> Which is what I thought we were doing. There *was* a disconnect between the admins from Furocity, and everyone else... but I thought that we had actually started the process of talking over issues and getting these conflicts resolved. Sure, I wasn't happy, but I'm here to help the users. It's why I wanted to be an admin in the first place, so I was willing to work with them and through a new process - if the process made sense.



Hey Summercat

Were you the admin who over-ruled photografuhrer's ruling that this user's photos were acceptable per the AUP? And perma-banned the user when he came to FAF asking about it?

Reference locked thread, "Today, I find more images deleted. Pick an AUP policy and be consistent, people"

Just curious because, if so, that isn't conduct consistent with "talking over issues and getting these conflicts resolved," it's more along the lines of the complaints in photografuhrer's resignation.


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> You don't go running us around in a damn maze of patience where every dead end is a minefield of bullcrap. It's what's causing users to leave, and it's causing users here to whine. (including myself) Hell if it weren't for the fact that people are too damn used to this site, it'd probably be dead if it were relatively new.


Pretty much this. Patience only lasts for so long. I mean, come on. Note leaks, logging into other people's accounts, file read only mode, viglink, doxes a 'plenty, a new code that included "transparency" (which no one has seen yet). That's just this year. There's just so much dumb crap, it's impossible to be patient with people who make the same mistakes over and over and either get defensive or say "we're working on it". Know what else they worked on in '09? (May have been '10, can't remember since it took so damn long), registration to the site was down for what, 6-8 _months_? Then comes back with barely more than a _captcha? _It's not just little stuff like not being able to see certain submissions or old TTs not being answered. It's stuff that brings the entire site to a standstill, and it happens all the fucking time. Avoidable disasters happen all the time. It's irritating as hell, and frankly I don't see the point of waiting around quietly and patiently for shit to get fixed.

It's been reduced to people making fun of it. There's not much else you can do with something that's obviously broken and not much being fixed.
I did like how it took less than a week to code in an option to opt out of viglink though. I say that sarcastically, because there's a base problem. It's not with the coding, it's with the way the site's run.

/sperg


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> yeah exactly. even if you get split up into groups for the specific departments you still have to talk to each other. thats what managing a site is all about! everyone has to be fully informed about all aspects of what is currently on the agenda. and that is obviously not happening! but since some actually flat out ignored the new code of conduct for the admins they might not even care in the slightest...
> which in turn makes me (and i bet a lot of other users) wonder, why *I* should care about the rules? TTs arent being handled properly anyway! which, by the way, makes me also wonder why i even bothered reporting stuff if my TTs get handled by people who dont know anything about the AUP or the department they are messing around in...
> 
> edit: well! silver just quit as well :O



It was a cherry pick fest of who wants to obey what part of the unfinsihed CoC leaving it a damn confusing mess. It wasn't just "one side" which makes the whole thing retarded.


----------



## Harik (Oct 28, 2011)

timoran said:


> Hey Summercat
> 
> Were you the admin who over-ruled photografuhrer's ruling that this user's photos were acceptable per the AUP? And perma-banned the user when he came to FAF asking about it?



I'm pretty sure it was obvious to everyone what I was referencing without dragging names into it.  I don't think it's going to be productive to pick fights with individuals, that just makes them dig in and be defensive.  I'm hoping for the administrative staff to step back and see if just maybe there's something to the complaints they're so tired of hearing.



Arshes Nei said:


> It was a cherry pick fest of who wants to obey  what part of the unfinsihed CoC leaving it a damn confusing mess. It  wasn't just "one side" which makes the whole thing retarded.



I think that 'overruling a department head when you're even in that department' is a bit more severe than 'picking which part of the unfinished CoC to obey'.

That's why it would help if even the unfinished CoC would be published/leaked, because otherwise it's a massive he-said-he-said fest of people deflecting blame and claiming they're in the right due to [classified].


----------



## Summercat (Oct 28, 2011)

timoran said:


> Hey Summercat
> 
> Were you the admin who over-ruled photografuhrer's ruling that this user's photos were acceptable per the AUP? And perma-banned the user when he came to FAF asking about it?
> 
> ...



No, although I am privy to the entire Smashwolf situation, going back to the beginning of the year when we first started an AUP overhaul. Since I'm not on the forums as often as I could be, I leave forum moderating to people who are here more frequently, and have more contact with the population here. I generally would expect the same thing for admins and mods with regards to IRC, where I dwell and spend a lot of time.

Part of the problem is that Photografur was brought on halfway through dealing with Smashwolf, and took over without consulting with the people who had been handling it up until that point. This was a common issue when the merger first occurred; for example, I found a situation where a few other situations were not handled properly due to unfamiliarity to how things worked.

In any event, the reason I said "started the process of talking over issues and getting these conflicts resolved" is because we started working on this last week, via forums - which can be slow when people only check a few times a day, but necessary when you are scattered across multiple timezones (Or am weird like me, I work when sane people sleep). We actually started having discourse and working towards bringing the diverging viewpoints together. 

The Smashwolf thing was a symptom of the problem that I - and others - thought we were working on.


----------



## Accountability (Oct 28, 2011)

Harik said:


> I don't think it's fair to blame the "dox" on why the new blood left.  It seems much more likely that there's a culture of "do whatever" that fought back to the idea of rules that they actually had to follow.



After reading what the departing admins wrote, I feel this too. The dox were simply the last straw and gave them a convenient excuse to bow out.

Only one admin implied they left over the dox, and only the dox. "My services here are not wanted nor appreciated by the previous admin staff." and "At all times I have tried to honestly improve your user experience but  with the weak, unprofessional, childish original staff this proved to be  to great a challenge. Being met with endless bickering and bullshit a  simple job of helping users on an community art website is impossible." is *not* "I'm worried about my personal information being leaked."


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok Summercat, then let us ask you this.

If the other guy was permabanned for your misconduct, was he pardoned of his unneeded punishment?


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Summercat said:


> In any event, the reason I said "started the process of talking over issues and getting these conflicts resolved" is because we started working on this last week, via forums



Last week?

Why did it take you *3 months* to begin this process?



Summercat said:


> Part of the problem is that Photografur was brought on halfway through dealing with Smashwolf, and took over without consulting with the people who had been handling it up until that point.



So, obviously, the proper way to resolve this problem is to just take matters into your own hands and usurp the authority he was granted since you obviously knew better than him.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Ok Summercat, then let us ask you this.
> 
> If the other guy was permabanned for your misconduct, was he pardoned of his unneeded punishment?



You honestly know nothing of the situation.

Let's drop this line of talk, as it essentially holds no relevance nor importance.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

Accountability said:


> After reading what the departing admins wrote, I feel this too. The dox were simply the last straw and gave them a convenient excuse to bow out.
> 
> Only one admin implied they left over the dox, and only the dox. "My services here are not wanted nor appreciated by the previous admin staff." and "At all times I have tried to honestly improve your user experience but  with the weak, unprofessional, childish original staff this proved to be  to great a challenge. Being met with endless bickering and bullshit a  simple job of helping users on an community art website is impossible." is *not* "I'm worried about my personal information being leaked."



I'm sorry, but I'm going to be pretty candid here. This why I'm tired of having to put the best foot forward and platitudes. Everyone makes these guesses because of FA's reputation. This is where I feel I need to say something at the risk of MY work here as head admin.

The admin you quoted. He came on the chatroom, called Dragoneer an asshole and accused him of leaking his personal info - dox. I  guess it's great to say everyone is childish, but I don't think I've ever cussed another person out like that with such gross information. Basically he left in a ragequit.

I can get along with the swearing for the most part, but to just come on and call him an asshole without even getting your facts straight. Is that REALLY level headed administrationship?

We didn't get told about these Department heads...it just happened. I asked in the other thread to get staff on board and inform them about this co-op I already knew it's a problem if Team A only wants to go with Team A and Team B only wants to work with Team B.

I'm tired of asking them to come on the forums and talk more so that these conflicts could be resolved. 

I'm tired of the excuses of them not wanting to get on IRC so that something can be resolved quickly. 

I'm tired of not being informed when major changes occur and when asked to GET BOTH LEADERS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, it just idles by.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> You honestly know nothing of the situation.


I've been lurking around. Don't tell me what I do or do not know.



Xenke said:


> Let's drop this line of talk, as it essentially holds no relevance nor importance.


Involves an admin who left. Involves an example of a lack of organization. It does hold relevance.



I asked a simple question. Wasn't to you nor to anyone else but the one who banned him.


----------



## Freehaven (Oct 28, 2011)

Hey.

Hey.

FA has problems. They don't come from outside forces trying to get dox, they come from the admins and the coder(s) either not doing enough to fix things or not knowing how the hell to fix things.

The admins who stepped down didn't do it because of FuriLeaks, they did it because the people who help run this site are doing a horrible job and made their job harder to perform to a high standard; the dox situation is just a convenient excuse.

If you want FA fixed, put the blame on admins quitting and things not working right where it belongs: on Dragoneer, yak, the apparently lazy coding team (how's that "summer update" coming?), and the incompetent admins who apparently learned nothing from the last admin revolt. If you really want FA fixed, leave it and go find another artdump site to use until Dragoneer gets this site's shit together and really makes some changes for the better.

Dragoneer, if you're reading this: take a good look at your administration team, take a good look at what yak is (or, rather, isn't) doing to improve the site, then take a good look at yourself and ask yourself if you want people actually celebrating the downfall of this site because it means that something better can take its place.

FA has potential to be greater than it is right now. Until you wake up and realize that there's a lot of things wrong with how _you're_ running the site and how _your_ handpicked admin crew are running things, Dragoneer, then FA will never rise up to that potential.

As hypocritical as it sounds coming from me, I think it needs to be said: *get your shit together, Sean.*


----------



## Xenke (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I've been lurking around. Don't tell me what I do or do not know.



I doubt you've have the same involvement I've had.

I can't actually speak for the administration, but based on everything I've seen the user's ban is entirely justified.

You don't need to know why.



> Involves an admin who left. Involves an example of a lack of organization. It does hold relevance.



Ok let's talk about this then. A new admin is put inte the position of "department head", and is not fully clear on the intent of what is said in the AUP, only taking from it literally. Inexperience in a high position. Problems arise.

My personal problem with this admin was, and I'm only saying this to further what I asserted above, that (on another issue) despite his inexperience, he still asserted that what he said goes, despite being shown specific statements by several more veteran admins that indicated to the contrary. This was really early on though, and I don't know how this view may have changed.

I have nothing against the guy, but I don't believe he should have been in that position, given the circumstances.



> asked a simple question. Wasn't to you nor to anyone else but the one who banned him.



Welcome to an internet forum. If you had intended for your question to be isolated, you would have sent it in a PM.


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm going to be pretty candid here. This why I'm tired of having to put the best foot forward and platitudes. Everyone makes these guesses because of FA's reputation. This is where I feel I need to say something at the risk of MY work here as head admin.
> 
> The admin you quoted. He came on the chatroom, called Dragoneer an asshole and accused him of leaking his personal info - dox. I  guess it's great to say everyone is childish, but I don't think I've ever cussed another person out like that with such gross information. Basically he left in a ragequit.
> 
> ...



Honestly, it's easy to blame Dragoneer for the problems of "Team A and Team B" but - really - do you people have to have a referee to force you to work together and get the job done??

Can't admins work on one site professionally and transparently without the need for the site owner to come down and issue ultimatums?

That seems to be what everyone on "Team A and Team B" wanted, which says to me that Team A and Team B are BOTH incapable of acting as adults and dealing with their own shit.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Ok Summercat, then let us ask you this.
> 
> If the other guy was permabanned for your misconduct, was he pardoned of his unneeded punishment?



What other guy permabanned for what misconduct of mine? What?



timoran said:


> Last week?
> 
> Why did it take you *3 months* to begin this process?


Don't look at me. I've been screaming to get them to talk to us since I first discovered they were adminned on FA.




> So, obviously, the proper way to resolve this problem is to just take matters into your own hands and usurp the authority he was granted since you obviously knew better than him.



In this situation, where Photografur was *wrong* with an interpretation of the AUP, and refused to discuss it with anyone, including the people who *WROTE* that portion of the AUP, and the action was run past multiple admins including Dragoneer?


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Ok let's talk about this then. A new admin is put inte the position of "department head", and is not fully clear on the intent of what is said in the AUP, only taking from it literally. Inexperience in a high position. Problems arise.



Implying he was inexperienced. Implying he never had a high position. Oh wait that's what you're doing.

May I remind you he is (or was, not sure now) an admin as well on Furocity? And I doubt the owner of Furocity would send an inexperienced staff member to fill two positions, with at least one being a head of a "department.

He knew what he was doing, he did his job. He followed the AUP TO THE LETTER. I give him great respect for this. The fact that any other "veteran" admin tried to tell him to be more lenient obviously wasn't what he was taught as an admin on Furocity. Especially since he's a new admin to Furaffinity, he has to do his best to show that he is capable of doing his job, and being hindered by giving second chances while others jump in and override his authority put him in a position where he feels as if he is being prevented from doing said job.




			
				SummerCat said:
			
		

> What other guy permabanned for what misconduct of mine? What?



Never mind Summercat. >-<


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

timoran said:


> Honestly, it's easy to blame Dragoneer for the problems of "Team A and Team B" but - really - do you people have to have a referee to force you to work together and get the job done??
> 
> Can't admins work on one site professionally and transparently without the need for the site owner to come down and issue ultimatums?
> 
> That seems to be what everyone on "Team A and Team B" wanted, which says to me that Team A and Team B are BOTH incapable of acting as adults and dealing with their own shit.



And this is why I'm frustrated. I extended out the invitation to get both teams to open up. For the most part it was ignored. The fact it had to be an ultimatum boggles my mind. I don't have these problems with the forum staff. We talk with each other and despite us being human it runs rather smoothly.

Team A only wants to talk with Boss A
Team B only wants to talk with Boss B

How the hell is that even a co-op?


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Summercat said:


> In this situation, where Photografur was *wrong* with an interpretation of the AUP, and refused to discuss it with anyone, including the people who *WROTE* that portion of the AUP, and the action was run past multiple admins including Dragoneer?



Yes. In that exact situation, I still say:

"So, obviously, the proper way to resolve this problem is to just take matters into your own hands and usurp the authority he was granted since you obviously knew better than him."


----------



## Xenke (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Implying he was inexperienced. Implying he never had a high position. Oh wait that's what you're doing.
> 
> May I remind you he is (or was, not sure now) an admin as well on Furocity? And I doubt the owner of Furocity would send an inexperienced staff member to fill two positions, with at least one being a head of a "department.
> 
> He knew what he was doing, he did his job. He followed the AUP TO THE LETTER. I give him great respect for this. The fact that any other "veteran" admin tried to tell him to be more lenient obviously wasn't what he was taught as an admin on Furocity. Especially since he's a new admin to Furaffinity, he has to do his best to show that he is capable of doing his job, and being hindered by giving second chances while others jump in and override his authority put him in a position where he feels as if he is being prevented from doing said job.



The crux of this entire argument is that the moderation of Furocity and the moderation of Fur Affinity are equal and interchangeable. Long story short: no. Just because you practice American law does not mean you'll make a good Canadian lawyer.

And of course, this is still ignoring the case of ignoring the views of several other admins on a specific part of the AUP, one of whom is "the boss". And it's not as if this was something that was recently changed with the new AUP, the site has been moderated this way for at least a year, probably more.



timoran said:


> Yes. In that exact situation, I still say:
> 
> "So, obviously, the proper way to resolve this problem is to just take matters into your own hands and usurp the authority he was granted since you obviously knew better than him."



One of the statements I provided to him to show evidence to the contrary of his interpretation of that part of the AUP was made by "the boss".

But apparently it was the wrong boss, so it doesn't matter.


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> And this is why I'm frustrated. I extended out the invitation to get both teams to open up. For the most part it was ignored. The fact it had to be an ultimatum boggles my mind. I don't have these problems with the forum staff. We talk with each other and despite us being human it runs rather smoothly.
> 
> Team A only wants to talk with Boss A
> Team B only wants to talk with Boss B
> ...



Seems like I would have a higher opinion of Team A if, even as the person representing Team A's _personal opinion_, this were the situation:

Team B only wants to talk with Boss B
Team A approaches Team B, and points out that both Boss A and Boss B are off on another planet and couldn't be less interested in getting involved in this dispute or really having anything to do with Website F whatsoever, and extends an olive branch, but Team B never responds.

The fact that you too see the problem on both sides tells me that neither side is "right."


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> The crux of this entire argument is that the moderation of Furocity and the moderation of Fur Affinity are equal and interchangeable. Long story short: no. Just because you practice American law does not mean you'll make a good Canadian lawyer.



Actually I would say that a better example is bringing the owner of a successful 7-employee dry cleaning shop in the small village of Elburn, Illinois in as the Chief Financial Officer at Sears Roebuck and Co. and expecting him to be prepared for the job.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> And of course, this is still ignoring the case of ignoring the views of several other admins on a specific part of the AUP, one of whom is "the boss". And it's not as if this was something that was recently changed with the new AUP, the site has been moderated this way for at least a year, probably more.



I have had my latest submission removed. It was a creepypasta story I busted my ass to make. I provided a handmade desktop that was made to resemble my own desktop but with a handmade background and a rearranged folders to spell out DIE in order  to compliment the story itself.

It was removed because:



> Screenshots are not permitted. This includes screenshots of websites, desktops, applications, games (console, PC) or film.



Wasn't a screenshot.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I have had my latest submission removed. It was a creepypasta story I busted my ass to make. I provided a handmade desktop that was made to resemble my own desktop but with a handmade background and a rearranged folders to spell out DIE in order  to compliment the story itself.
> 
> It was removed because:
> 
> ...



Does this post have a point, or...


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I have had my latest submission removed. It was a creepypasta story I busted my ass to make. I provided a handmade desktop that was made to resemble my own desktop but with a handmade background and a rearranged folders to spell out DIE in order  to compliment the story itself.
> 
> It was removed because:
> 
> Wasn't a screenshot.



So you made a picture that was_ purposefully designed _to look like a desktop, and are now surprised to see it removed as someone obviously thinks it _is_ a picture of a desktop. Okay. What does this have to do with anything? Are you even reading the same thread?


----------



## Alstor (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> And this is why I'm frustrated. I extended out the invitation to get both teams to open up. For the most part it was ignored. The fact it had to be an ultimatum boggles my mind. I don't have these problems with the forum staff. We talk with each other and despite us being human it runs rather smoothly.
> 
> Team A only wants to talk with Boss A
> Team B only wants to talk with Boss B
> ...



So the Furocity people are still 100% loyal to Furocity, going around as if it was Furocity, talking only to Furocity people, and helping in the name of Furocity.

If that's the case, was the merger worth it? Furocity isn't literally merging with FurAffinity, so there's still the isolation of Team A and Team B that existed ever since before July.

If this is true, Neer just put more worthless admins under his belt. Not to mention the remaining Furocity admins are in control of possibly the most important department of them all.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Does this post have a point, or...



The person who decided that it was unfit was Neer.



> ...the views of several other admins on a specific part of the AUP, one of whom is "the boss".









HOLY BUTTNUGGETS BATMAN I DON'T THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WROTE IN THAT AUP.


----------



## timoran (Oct 28, 2011)

Alstor said:


> So the Furocity people are still 100% loyal to Furocity, going around as if it was Furocity, talking only to Furocity people, and helping in the name of Furocity.
> 
> If that's the case, was the merger worth it? Furocity isn't literally merging with FurAffinity, so there's still the isolation of Team A and Team B that existed ever since before July.
> 
> If this is true, Neer just put more worthless admins under his belt.



Doesn't really matter now since they all quit


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

timoran said:


> Doesn't really matter now since they all quit


 Not all of them. (I don' think all of them) (I HOPE NOT ALL OF THEM)


----------



## Alstor (Oct 28, 2011)

timoran said:


> Doesn't really matter now since they all quit


Edited my original post. It's not all of them.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

Alstor said:


> So the Furocity people are still 100% loyal to Furocity, going around as if it was Furocity, talking only to Furocity people, and helping in the name of Furocity.
> 
> If that's the case, was the merger worth it? Furocity isn't literally merging with FurAffinity, so there's still the isolation of Team A and Team B that existed ever since before July.
> 
> If this is true, Neer just put more worthless admins under his belt.




That's pretty much how it went. With some exceptions of other staff that did come forward. Like I said, I did like Grammatist. I'm sure he was a bit reserved because of the situation. There were other staff members like Writerwren too.

I think the intents were good, work together to learn from each other, but you have to WORK together and learn from each other. I think there was much to learn from Grammatist and I was willing to help him out when he said he had issues with using IRC. 

I don't think it works out if you come to a new office and think your old office rules and regulations apply. You kinda have to learn the environment. I feel the same if the position was reversed and was requested to help on their site. 

But as always, it seems that good intentions get botched here. Then it turns into popcorn fest. I felt the execution of the merger was lousy. It could have been done so much better.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> The person who decided that it was unfit was Neer.



Let me put this bluntly:

You made a submission that was designed to mirror something that is against the AUP, and are somehow surprised when it is called that (I'm also assuming you used someone else's folder images, so there's that too). And then the owner of the site, a metaphorical dictator, removes it.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the moderation of the site is neither bound nor expressly held to the letter of the AUP, it's essentially dependent on how the admins rule on things, the highest level of these judgements being at the hands of the site's owners.

Congratulations, your submission is now officially against the AUP.

EDIT: But I do believe all of this is a tangent of the issue at hand, let's cease it.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Why do you think I never resubumitted it?

Even with a story I'd probably be banned because what I bust my ass for isn't considered art while MSpaint shit drawings are kept up.







;_; WOE IS ME.


EDIT: I love Nicolas Cage reaction images. I'm gonna start using them more often.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

Xenke said:


> I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the moderation of the site is neither bound nor expressly held to the letter of the AUP, it's essentially dependent on how the admins rule on things, the highest level of these judgements being at the hands of the site's owners.



I don't know if it's even that. He may have just come across it, honestly thought it was a screenshot and removed it. Now the user tries to use it as a SEE HOW INCOMPETENT HE IS? Well if he interpreted as a screenshot even though it wasn't was there even a talk afterwards?

Expecting someone to always talk about a screenshot or removal BEFORE IT IS DONE is something of a waste of time for everyone involved. It may be courtesy to warn but it's just that...courtesy.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't know if it's even that. He may have just come across it, honestly thought it was a screenshot and removed it. Now the user tries to use it as a SEE HOW INCOMPETENT HE IS? Well if he interpreted as a screenshot even though it wasn't was there even a talk afterwards?
> 
> Expecting someone to always talk about a screenshot or removal BEFORE IT IS DONE is something of a waste of time for everyone involved. It may be courtesy to warn but it's just that...courtesy.



I would've spoken to him if it weren't for two factors:

A) He almost never responds to notes.

B) There was a story that went with it that was posted blatantly there, but he completely ignored.

A is kinda meh I could wait I don't give a shit, however he did ignore the other aspect of the reason it was posted, which brought on the air of "I didn't care so it goes bai"


----------



## Alstor (Oct 28, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> That's pretty much how it went. With some exceptions of other staff that did come forward. Like I said, I did like Grammatist. I'm sure he was a bit reserved because of the situation. There were other staff members like Writerwren too.


So the writing staff was cool.

What a glorious day for furry literature. :V



> I think the intents were good, work together to learn from each other, but you have to WORK together and learn from each other. I think there was much to learn from Grammatist and I was willing to help him out when he said he had issues with using IRC.
> 
> I don't think it works out if you come to a new office and think your old office rules and regulations apply. You kinda have to learn the environment. I feel the same if the position was reversed and was requested to help on their site.
> 
> But as always, it seems that good intentions get botched here. Then it turns into popcorn fest. I felt the execution of the merger was lousy. It could have been done so much better.


That's kind of what I'm pointing at. In addition to the separate teams, either the new admins were too stubborn to learn, no one from the old staff showed them the ropes when they originally came in, and no one listened to their cries for help. I feel that it's a mix of the first two, but I can't see what goes on behind the scenes.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I would've spoken to him if it weren't for two factors:
> 
> A) He almost never responds to notes.
> 
> ...




But that is you making the excuses and then accusing him of the entire wrong doing. There are so many other ways to communicate that you also failed to do. 

B is kinda irrelevant. Your story doesn't matter unless it violated the rules, it was the fact the image appeared to be a violation.

You knew this but rather than chalk it up to a misunderstanding you're using it as a wrongful campaign. I don't think your case is relevant nor fair to use as the standard.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Alstor said:


> I can't see what goes on behind the scenes.



I've been seeing this a lot in this thread and others similar.

We DON'T know what goes on. We either just take it for granted, or we question them over and over and get the same excuse over and over, until we finally give up and give in.



Arshes Nei said:


> B is kinda irrelevant. Your story doesn't matter unless it violated the  rules, it was the fact the image appeared to be a violation.
> 
> You knew this but rather than chalk it up to a misunderstanding you're  using it as a wrongful campaign. I don't think your case is relevant nor  fair to use as the standard.



Irrelevancy and misunderstanding would be acceptable as an excuse if it didn't come from someone who fucks up a lot.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2011)

Alstor said:


> That's kind of what I'm pointing at. In addition to the separate teams, either the new admins were too stubborn to learn, no one from the old staff showed them the ropes when they originally came in, and no one listened to their cries for help. I feel that it's a mix of the first two, but I can't see what goes on behind the scenes.



Most of the time trying to help became a brush off. Then of course human nature kicks in and builds resentment. 
On the other hand Furocity might have seen the help as underlying accusations of incompetence, which is also part of human nature when you think someone is questioning your authority on things - rather than realizing people are trying to guide you


----------



## Corto (Oct 28, 2011)

Fucking hell Cinox try to keep some dignity here. I may not join this fuckup of a debate but I do enforce the forum rules, which prohibit image macros, so please cut it with those Nick Cage pictures. They do not make your arguments look witty or whatever, they just make your post look annoying and stupid.
Either way, I'll miss Grammatist, he was cool


> and no one listened to their cries for help.


They must have been some awfully silent cries.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 28, 2011)

Corto said:


> Fucking hell Cinox try to keep some dignity here. I may not join this fuckup of a debate but I do enforce the forum rules, which prohibit image macros, so please cut it with those Nick Cage pictures. They do not make your arguments look witty or whatever, they just make your post look annoying and stupid.
> Either way, I'll miss Grammatist, he was cool
> 
> They must have been some awfully silent cries.



;.=.; But I was enjoying them. They're hilarious (to me at least).


----------



## Corto (Oct 28, 2011)

Comedy is subjective.




But I'm fairly sure those images are objectively the worst.


----------



## Alstor (Oct 28, 2011)

Corto said:


> They must have been some awfully silent cries.


Then how much do you know? As far as everyone else knows (as in we DON'T know if they asked for help or not), the main site staff still doesn't give a shit about the forum staff unless you're friends with them and are able to get on an IRC client.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Oct 29, 2011)

Corto said:


> Comedy is subjective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably could find better, but still it's sort of funny....but now it's dead. :C


----------



## Accountability (Oct 29, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> The admin you quoted. He came on the chatroom, called Dragoneer an asshole and accused him of leaking his personal info - dox. I  guess it's great to say everyone is childish, but I don't think I've ever cussed another person out like that with such gross information. Basically he left in a ragequit.
> 
> I can get along with the swearing for the most part, but to just come on and call him an asshole without even getting your facts straight. Is that REALLY level headed administrationship?



All I can say is "haha oh wow."


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 29, 2011)

Alstor said:


> Then how much do you know? As far as everyone else knows (as in we DON'T know if they asked for help or not), the main site staff still doesn't give a shit about the forum staff unless you're friends with them and are able to get on an IRC client.



I must step in and say that it is not exactly this way. Many of the site staff started out as forum staff and we don't magically stop caring about the forum staff once we become main staff. I know myself and several other main staffers care very much about the forum staff here and value them as members of our staff team. I personally viciously care about all the forum staff here if that makes sense. This is where my roots are and I care about the place as a whole.


----------



## Alstor (Oct 29, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> I must step in and say that it is not exactly this way. Many of the site staff started out as forum staff and we don't magically stop caring about the forum staff once we become main staff. I know myself and several other main staffers care very much about the forum staff here and value them as members of our staff team. I personally viciously care about all the forum staff here if that makes sense. This is where my roots are and I care about the place as a whole.


If that's the case (and it seems like it is from the amount of FAFers on the main staff), I might be remembering how it was before.

Get the fuck off my lawn, youngin'.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 29, 2011)

Alstor said:


> If that's the case (and it seems like it is from the amount of FAFers on the main staff), I might be remembering how it was before.
> 
> Get the fuck off my lawn, youngin'.



How it was before, aye. There has been bad disconnects between mainsite and forum staff before, but I believe we've mostly patched that up.

Mostly.

Any forum staffers have full authority to beat me with tiny sticks if I mess that up, though.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 29, 2011)

Alstor said:


> If that's the case (and it seems like it is from the amount of FAFers on the main staff), I might be remembering how it was before.
> 
> Get the fuck off my lawn, youngin'.



I will say that when I joined, working in the forums was like working in radio silence. Site staff didn't care and when drama went down we didn't know shit. However in my time as mod this has improved. I am not friends with all the admins, but I do feel they are at least the mods are considered when things happen. We don't know everything from site, rightfully so, but there's a notable push to let us know, and there has been a lot more cross site discussion lately. 

this is why the sudden quitting was so shocking for me. A few new admins came and talked to us. We were having discussions. Hell some came to give ideas about the forum and I think it was going swimmingly with people working out the best solution to implement. Things seemed to be going to a positive light and the Team A Team B bullshit was finally disappearing.

I'm sure some people will assume I just want to back up staff, but I'm not an admin and do not expect that to happen. I don't have much in terms of ties to the site. I honestly think both sides seriously fucked up through a series of misinformation, egos, and piss poor handling of all parts. 
I do hold out hope though, because we have some damn fine admins and this whole thing has set in motion a lot of positive work in terms of staff for those that are still here.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 29, 2011)

Alstor said:


> If that's the case (and it seems like it is from the amount of FAFers on the main staff), I might be remembering how it was before.
> 
> Get the fuck off my lawn, youngin'.



Before there was certainly some form of a disconnect but it is not that way now. We have made great strides in that area. :3


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 29, 2011)

Freehaven said:


> The admins who stepped down didn't do it because of FuriLeaks, they did it because the people who help run this site are doing a horrible job and made their job harder to perform to a high standard; the dox situation is just a convenient excuse.


Of course, none of you guys know the ticket statistics for the last 90 days. let me get you some rough numbers:

The active furocity staff handled 110 ~ 200 tickets, per staff member, in the past 90 days.
The active old fa staff handled 480 ~  1670 tickets, per staff member, in the past 90 days.

It's not like we old-FA staff were being lazy or anything. But appearantly, it's not ok for us to do, for example, a photography ticket every now and then (Blatant violations like "Look at me in my boxers", even), but it was supposedly ok for furocity admins to get into the photography or TOS sections.
Heck, we were getting notes saying as much as "Stay out of my department", while on the admin forums, they say "Yea, I've given admin A permission to handle tickets in my department".
We've had furocity admins deleting submissions outside of their departments, and even some of them adminning from each others' accounts, because, from what I heard, they forgot to log out.
Is it just me, or is that a little hypocritical?

Now, I was under the impression that this departments issue was being dealt with. (Discussions were ongoing on Admin forums they had access to), but apparently, a dox is the final drop on a bucket that was, as far as most of us were aware, being drained already.



Trpdwarf said:


> viciously care


I sure hope "Viciously caring" doesn't involve a knife or anything.


----------



## Summercat (Oct 29, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> I sure hope "Viciously caring" doesn't involve a knife or anything.



Hey now. You know what happened last time we talked about Trp's vicious caring. We were viciously cared for, for weeks D:


----------



## Corto (Oct 29, 2011)

> Then how much do you know? As far as everyone else knows (as in we DON'T know if they asked for help or not), the main site staff still doesn't give a shit about the forum staff unless you're friends with them and are able to get on an IRC client.


I'm contractually obligated not to get involved in admin-level issues. And by contractually obligated I mean "haha these furry shenanigans are hillarious". Besides that, I don't have much to say because while I do know much, much more than a standard user (and a standard human being, but that's another matter altogether) I have come to realize I do not know as much as I thought about this, and most of what I'd say has already been said by Trp or Arshes. 



CerbrusNL said:


> I sure hope "Viciously caring" doesn't involve a knife or anything.


You obviously haven't been going to the anual meetings.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 29, 2011)

Accountability said:


> All I can say is "haha oh wow."



It's like a guy punches out his boss because he mistakenly believed his boss was sleeping with his wife. Then he quits saying how incompetent his workplace is. Given that a lot of people have dealt with shitty workplaces/office conflicts/disagreements or the old "My boss is a douche" makes it a worthwhile excuse. However, the guy still was a moron for punching out his boss and really was trying save face.


----------



## DW_ (Oct 29, 2011)

at 





CerbrusNL said:


> It's not like we old-FA staff were being lazy or anything. But  appearantly, it's not ok for us to do, for example, a photography ticket  every now and then (Blatant violations like "Look me in my boxers",  even), but it was supposedly ok for furocity admins to get into the  photography or TOS sections.


ToS admins should not exist as it's EVERY admin's job to enforce it, not only a select group. Why should only a specific set of people be able to enforce what's essentially a seperate ruleset akin to the AUP? They're BOTH part of the general rules. You violate either one, you get banned. It's that simple, or at least, it should be.


----------



## Ozriel (Oct 29, 2011)

What one of the admins had done was basically handled badly, and probably had let anger cloud his judgement. That was something that was not necessary. What happened with the info sucks, but that's what happens when you put it out on the internet. It happens.





TheDW said:


> ToS admins should not exist as it's EVERY admin's job to enforce it, not only a select group. Why should only a specific set of people be able to enforce what's essentially a seperate ruleset akin to the AUP? They're BOTH part of the general rules. You violate either one, you get banned. It's that simple, or at least, it should be.


 
I am on agreement with that.

The "Stay in your own department" was a generally bad idea. If something happened and you didn't tell anyone, things pile up. Piling up is bad and creates more trouble for everyone.


----------



## Ben (Oct 29, 2011)

You know, there's something that doesn't quite add up. Of the four people who left, only one actually had sensitive information leaked about them (WriterWren), and I'm not getting the impression she would lash out at people like that. Why exactly would this admin in question have been so pissed as to come into the admin chat, guns ablazing? I can understand being worried about your future with FA if people are just going to make random attacks against the staff like that, but I can't imagine why they'd be so incredibly mad if their identity wasn't in any way compromised.


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 29, 2011)

Ben said:


> You know, there's something that doesn't quite add up. Of the four people who left, only one actually had sensitive information leaked about them (WriterWren), and I'm not getting the impression she would lash out at people like that. Why exactly would this admin in question have been so pissed as to come into the admin chat, guns ablazing? I can understand being worried about your future with FA if people are just going to make random attacks against the staff like that, but I can't imagine why they'd be so incredibly mad if their identity wasn't in any way compromised.



I'm guessing they partly used it as an excuse, and perhaps they also misunderstood exactly what was released and where it came from. The only thing that technically came from FA was the small yiffyleaks section. Did they even know what yiffyleaks was before this? Was their (over)reaction perhaps similar to this?  Â¯\(Âº_o)/Â¯


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 29, 2011)

Ben said:


> You know, there's something that doesn't quite add up. Of the four people who left, only one actually had sensitive information leaked about them (WriterWren), and I'm not getting the impression she would lash out at people like that. Why exactly would this admin in question have been so pissed as to come into the admin chat, guns ablazing? I can understand being worried about your future with FA if people are just going to make random attacks against the staff like that, but I can't imagine why they'd be so incredibly mad if their identity wasn't in any way compromised.


actually 5 people left. silver quit yesterday, too.
anyway. you are definitely right, it doesnt add up. especially since ony wrtierwrn mentioned the leak, 2 left because of "personal reasons" and only photografuhrer mentioned the terrible management of the site.
the truth probably lies somewhere inbetween. terrible management and a missunderstanding about what information was actually found and where it really came from. the latter maybe being the last straw that made them snap


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 29, 2011)

Ben said:


> Why exactly would this admin in question have been so pissed as to come into the admin chat, guns ablazing? I can understand being worried about your future with FA if people are just going to make random attacks against the staff like that, but I can't imagine why they'd be so incredibly mad if their identity wasn't in any way compromised.



That is the problem. That is actually what happened. He got on the chat, called Neer an asshole for leaking his information. 

There is also another way to look at this too.

There were multiple requests for months, asking the admins to use the forums at the very least, and get on the IRC. The same admin who came in like that was not using the IRC much, if at all. Did I not say earlier Ben, we even had a hard time getting them to even say "hello"? 3 months? So the few days this one finally starts using it?

From what I understand the Furocity staff are a pretty close set of people that live near each other too. So one friend acts up and is out of line. Calls someone an asshole. I think they knew that was really out of line, and even though they had other problems - they also knew there were requests to group together and meet up. So instead, it's easier to bow out claiming other stuff because "haha FA sucks" instead of apologizing that they talked to a boss that way and used the other stuff as an excuse to cover up. That doesn't negate that there were some issues, however, given the fact that we also mentioned that FINALLY after 3 months some of the staff members started using the forums a little more frequently astounds me.


----------



## Ozriel (Oct 29, 2011)

CaptainCool said:


> actually 5 people left. silver quit yesterday, too.
> anyway. you are definitely right, it doesnt add up. especially since ony wrtierwrn mentioned the leak, 2 left because of "personal reasons" and only photografuhrer mentioned the terrible management of the site.
> the truth probably lies somewhere inbetween. terrible management and a missunderstanding about what information was actually found and where it really came from. the latter maybe being the last straw that made them snap



With FA I've learned that there will always be people to make themselves martyrs on Half truths.
When being an Admin on FA, you'll have to recognize that people will not like you when you have to do your job. People will want to take things out on you to humiliate you and the rest of the people you work with.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 29, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> I sure hope "Viciously caring" doesn't involve a knife or anything.



Depends...these are my homies(FAF). Mess with my homies and here is my knife :V
This is like my home. Mess with my home and here is the blowtorch (that's pretty much what a dragon is) :V


----------



## Draconas (Oct 29, 2011)

funny enough, dox were dropped on furi supposedly.... and yet I went looking for them, went back as far as I could and saw nothing


----------



## Ben (Oct 29, 2011)

Draconas said:


> funny enough, dox were dropped on furi supposedly.... and yet I went looking for them, went back as far as I could and saw nothing



Really? The docs are showing up on the first page there for me. Seems they got updated too, for whatever reason.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Oct 29, 2011)

Ben said:


> Really? The docs are showing up on the first page there for me. Seems they got updated too, for whatever reason.


Yeap. They surprisingly found a profile I have long forgotten (But now wiped any way).

That said, a lot of stuff's still missing from there. Not to mention a few links under my name seriously aren't mine. Also, what's with the google link referring to a youtube channel. lazy much?


----------



## Azure (Oct 29, 2011)

Oh look, another accountability thread. *Doesn't read it*

I am the 99%

Seriously dude, why do you bother. Untwist those panties.


----------



## Ben (Oct 29, 2011)

What. Lizardking made this thread. Azure, what are you doing.


----------



## cesarin (Oct 29, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> I would like it to be where once an item is reported it can't be reported again. That removes the possible build up of duplicate tickets and also will give users a prompt so they know something was reported.


 
or even better, to increase the ticket priority.

Example 1 to 10 tickets.. gives a low priority. 
more than 50 is critical (Ie, clearly a troll posting gore or underage porn)

maybe the possibility to attach all the tickets based on the submission, so there wont be duplicates but a "backlog"

*edit*

also wtf is going in here.. seriously.. again another flamefest that shows:
1. noone seems to be working on their spot
2. no leadership again
3. things getting messed
4. more fucking drama
5. nothing of what was promised as been acomplished..

what a epic shit!

I wish there was a man who could slap every admin and coder to fix their shit for real, not just find new excuses..
hell.. I wish GORDON FUCKING RAMSAY could come here and insult and punch some sense.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Oct 29, 2011)

cesarin said:


> or even better, to increase the ticket priority.
> 
> Example 1 to 10 tickets.. gives a low priority.
> more than 50 is critical (Ie, clearly a troll posting gore or underage porn)
> ...



That kind of approach makes sense. I've seen it where some troll goes on a spree posting actual human porn on the site and half a page or something a full one is nothing but a few pictures or just one being mass reported by many users. The once the issue is resolved you have to close each one individually. It would be easier if all the tickets bundled into one and had a priority thing going on so you now just how active it is as a reported item.

EDIT: D: don't slap me, I've been doing my job. I"ve spent a lot of time behind the scenes trying to fix different issues and encourage communicate between new and old staff. Also to patch up the final bits of communication between main side and forum. And you know, of course working on getting fixes to AUP done and working tickets. Don't harm me bro :C


----------



## Azure (Oct 29, 2011)

Ben said:


> What. Lizardking made this thread. Azure, what are you doing.


I know that, but Dave Hyena Accountability hijacks everything in this particular forum. I was just operating on previous bias :V

Don't mind me, I am contributing nothing but a single stir of the pot. At least all his little girlfriends aren't here. Why haven't we banned this fellow yet?


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 29, 2011)

cesarin said:


> or even better, to increase the ticket priority.
> 
> Example 1 to 10 tickets.. gives a low priority.
> more than 50 is critical (Ie, clearly a troll posting gore or underage porn)
> ...



i dont think that system for tickets makes a lot of sense. a tickets priority shouldnt be determined by how many people reported the submission. that way a ticket about a submission featuring someones dick that was posted at a time when not a lot of people are online might get a lower priority than a photo of a gun that was uploaded when tons of people are online.
instead a new ticket for a submission should just put that submission at the top of the list of the current backlog of reported submissions.
different ticket categories like harassement or stolen artwork should get higher priorities but simply judging by the amount of tickets is a bad idea in my opinion.
bundling tickets makes sense though. would make a lot of things easier^^

but yeah, gordon would clean this place up good =D or he would just start cursing and would leave right away.


----------



## Armaetus (Oct 29, 2011)

FA is still a clusterfuck even with the help they had. Good job guys :V


----------



## RyuDragnier (Oct 29, 2011)

This does not surprise me, especially since I've known since the first year I was here that some of the admin who run this site (names will not be given, they know who they are) are complete and utter idiots who don't really give a damn about anything, using their own bias to try to control the site. One of the things I DID hear about before one of the newer admin left was that one of them gave an 'ok' to something that was within their expertise in that field of art, only to have one of the older admin completely overturn that. Frankly, we have no way to know who was right or wrong on this, but I'm more likely to listen to the person who had experience in that particular field.


----------



## timoran (Oct 30, 2011)

Azure said:


> I know that, but Dave Hyena Accountability hijacks everything in this particular forum. I was just operating on previous bias :V
> 
> Don't mind me, I am contributing nothing but a single stir of the pot. At least all his little girlfriends aren't here. Why haven't we banned this fellow yet?



Because if the FA/FAF mods stifle any more well-stated criticism people might start invoking Godwin's Law.


----------



## Xipoid (Oct 30, 2011)

timoran said:


> Because if the FA/FAF mods stifle any more well-stated criticism people might start invoking Godwin's Law.



The whole FA admin corruption and power mongering universe that people have envisioned is really just a bunch of different people with different pieces of the same puzzle all trying to figure out what the finished product looks like without actually working together to consolidate. It really is far too grandiose as people describe it. The reality is very banal and a little stupid.


Not that I can really blame anyone. The flow of information is turbulent at best and dammed at worst. I feel that's really the most lacking feature, and I can't imagine the reason(s) to this without suddenly reducing someone to an incredibly simple position that makes the entire consideration very trivial in the first place.


----------



## Corto (Oct 30, 2011)

Well stated criticism is welcome. I actually enjoy tremendously reading through the threads some regular users make about problems over at mainsite (and forums too). But douches like that guy I banned, that don't even attempt to make points beyond throwing insults at staff for the sake of it, well, those get the boot pretty fast. 

This site would probably never improve without criticism (not a bad personal view of the site in particular, it's something I believe about basically everything) but trolls that do nothing but call us retards I ban without second guessing.


----------



## timoran (Oct 30, 2011)

Corto said:


> Well stated criticism is welcome. I actually enjoy tremendously reading through the threads some regular users make about problems over at mainsite (and forums too). But douches like that guy I banned, that don't even attempt to make points beyond throwing insults at staff for the sake of it, well, those get the boot pretty fast.
> 
> This site would probably never improve without criticism (not a bad personal view of the site in particular, it's something I believe about basically everything) but trolls that do nothing but call us retards I ban without second guessing.



When I referred to well-stated critics being stifled I was thinking of someone else in particular who was banned only for making valid points against FA. A thread "Recent staff actions" was opened to complain about this, and immediately locked by administration.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 30, 2011)

timoran said:


> When I referred to well-stated critics being stifled I was thinking of someone else in particular who was banned only for making valid points against FA. A thread "Recent staff actions" was opened to complain about this, and immediately locked by administration.



The last thing I wanted for that thread was to have "discussion" in it anyway.


----------



## Fay V (Oct 30, 2011)

timoran said:


> When I referred to well-stated critics being stifled I was thinking of someone else in particular who was banned only for making valid points against FA. A thread "Recent staff actions" was opened to complain about this, and immediately locked by administration.


I don't remember the thread so I can't say for certain that this is what happened. However people forget that someone can be banned over private discussions. So while someone brings up perfectly reasonable critique in public, they could be harassing others in private. 
there's also a few cases where people have perfectly reasonable critique, but insist on derailing topics with it, which is against the rules no matter the content and can get you banned. So if someone is bringing up reasonable critique about the UI in a banner thread, they'll probably be infracted and that will add up if they keep at it. 
Considering we never give out ban reasons and allow the user to explain why they were banned, it tends to look like the guy that "only" gave reasonable critique was being silenced because they don't admit they harassed staff with PMs.


----------



## Azure (Oct 30, 2011)

timoran said:


> Because if the FA/FAF mods stifle any more well-stated criticism people might start invoking Godwin's Law.


I'd hardly call most of what is posted "well stated criticism". A great deal of it is nothing but long overdue bawwww, bashing, and thinly veiled insults written as a critique of some sort. You think a person would just not give a shit anymore, especially after such a long time. And don't use that old "I CARE ABOUT THIS SITE" line either. It's completely not believeable.


----------



## Ben (Nov 2, 2011)

Well, it looks like RedCoatCat resigned too. Seems there's only Luhka and Gavin left from Furocity now. Really has me wondering where that means FA is heading from here.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 2, 2011)

Ben said:


> Well, it looks like RedCoatCat resigned too. Seems there's only Luhka and Gavin left from Furocity now. Really has me wondering where that means FA is heading from here.



The same way it was before the merger collaboration mind-meld event, I guess.


----------



## Armaetus (Nov 2, 2011)

Looks like it was 3 steps forward, 2 steps back now.

So yea, how's that "collab" working out for you Dragoneer and Gavin? :V


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 2, 2011)

Where are those coders we suppose to have gotten from Furocity, or did they laugh at how horrible FA was coded and walked back home :V


----------



## Kihari (Nov 2, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Where are those coders we suppose to have gotten from Furocity, or did they laugh at how horrible FA was coded and walked back home :V



Out of curiosity, I'd sure be interested to know exactly who these mystery men are (or were, as the case may be), if only to know that "We've got additional coders!" isn't just blowing smoke. Did I miss the memo?

inb4 none of your business


----------



## Shireton (Nov 3, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Where are those coders we suppose to have gotten from Furocity, or did they laugh at how horrible FA was coded and walked back home :V


They were probably all chased off by Yak.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 3, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Where are those coders we suppose to have gotten from Furocity, or did they laugh at how horrible FA was coded and walked back home :V



As far as I know, they don't exist, and now that 5 out of 7 Furocity staff members have left, do you _really_ think any more are going to want to come over?


----------



## GreenReaper (Nov 3, 2011)

Hmm. We're getting reports that Furocity.com is redirecting to Inkbunny. Coincidence?


----------



## CerbrusNL (Nov 3, 2011)

Yea, I wonder, too.

 Mean, those guys leaving would surely mean the end of FA, right?


----------



## Zydala (Nov 3, 2011)

GreenReaper said:


> Hmm. We're getting reports that Furocity.com is redirecting to Inkbunny. Coincidence?



it's redirecting me to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBFhdeR9PE :V


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

GreenReaper said:


> Hmm. We're getting reports that Furocity.com is redirecting to Inkbunny. Coincidence?


I was going to make a snarky comment, but I'm actually curious. 
Did the site fall through? Is it being hacked? 

By the by now it's directing to a youtube vid.

Edit: ninja'd


----------



## GreenReaper (Nov 3, 2011)

Could be either at this point. I'm sure there are some vulnerabilities if it's custom-coded or has old forum software. I believe Gavin is on UK time so would be asleep now.


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

I think I want to place my bets on a hack. After the attention they grabbed with this merger.
I'm not the person to ask though.


----------



## Kihari (Nov 3, 2011)

Pointing everything you can at the IP address instead of the domain name lets you pull up the main page, CSS and images and all, so the site _itself_ seems sound, at least at this moment.

What a strange turn of events.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 3, 2011)

So that's 6 admins down and a couple days to find out what's going on. When do we get the official FA announcement and explanation?


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> So that's 6 admins down and a couple days to find out what's going on. When do we get the official FA announcement and explanation?


What exactly would the point of that be? I don't mean to sound like the mod white knight, but what the hell would an announcement really do?
Those that quit announced their leave and gave their own reasons for why they quit, you can't really get much more information than that. Do you want Neer to say why he thinks each particular person quit? This isn't really a case where the staff came together and planned it or really took part. The only thing an announcement could do now is give equal or less information than is available now. Those with the most accurate information (the admins that quit) and no longer part of the site and are unlikely to fully explain each part of their reason for quitting with neer, just so he can do an announcement. 

Here's the official explanation. Several admins quit, each with a different reason ranging from staff incompetence to disturbed by Doxing.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:
			
		

> What exactly would the point of that be? I don't mean to sound like the  mod white knight, but what the hell would an announcement really do?
> Those that quit announced their leave and gave their own reasons for why  they quit, you can't really get much more information than that. Do you  want Neer to say why he thinks each particular person quit? This isn't  really a case where the staff came together and planned it or really  took part. The only thing an announcement could do now is give equal or  less information than is available now. Those with the most accurate  information (the admins that quit) and no longer part of the site and  are unlikely to fully explain each part of their reason for quitting  with neer, just so he can do an announcement.



One point would be to open those channels of communication with the users. Remember that communication issue that's apparent even with the administration? 
We have six admins leaving the site which is, I think, 20% of what we had. That's quite a drop and I think the users should be informed because we already know not everyone reads the forums but the loss hasn't been announced on the main page. 
It's a chance to reassure those of us who already know about the loss. We can find out why he was blind sided by all of this, what is changing so that doesn't happen again and where the new admins are going to come from. 
To use a quote, "Anyone can steer the ship in calm waters." Something has gone very wrong and the point of a leader here is to provide some sort of support. To reassure people that FA is actually still a viable site and that the administration is not in shambles.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 3, 2011)

ew who would want to go to pedobunny
even if fa was going down


----------



## Kihari (Nov 3, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> That's quite a drop and I think the users should be informed because we already know not everyone reads the forums but the loss hasn't been announced on the main page... To reassure people that FA is actually still a viable site and that the administration is not in shambles.



I sort of doubt those who aren't aware of these issues are going to be affected by them anyway.

Not to knock their efforts or anything (because I've not heard anything at all about them not doing work, or whatever), but hell, did _you_ notice any real difference in your FA-going experience after the new staff came on board? Do you think you're going to  now that they're gone?

Most everyone will remain blissfully unaware that anything has even happened, _just like always_. I'm all about wide-open communication, but in this case it's not going to make any sort difference in the end, because almost nobody will care about this.


----------



## Xipoid (Nov 3, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> One point would be to open those channels of communication with the users. Remember that communication issue that's apparent even with the administration?
> We have six admins leaving the site which is, I think, 20% of what we had. That's quite a drop and I think the users should be informed because we already know not everyone reads the forums but the loss hasn't been announced on the main page.
> It's a chance to reassure those of us who already know about the loss. We can find out why he was blind sided by all of this, what is changing so that doesn't happen again and where the new admins are going to come from.
> To use a quote, "Anyone can steer the ship in calm waters." Something has gone very wrong and the point of a leader here is to provide some sort of support. To reassure people that FA is actually still a viable site and that the administration is not in shambles.




You're really painting up a crisis that isn't there. FA is not having any problems. The new people quit, and that's really about all there is to it. You may think there was some kind of horrible impetus that lead to the merger, such as FA was critically low on staff or needed the expertise to solve a problem, but in all honesty that's not true. In fact, there is no real reason at all that I can see for the merger. There was no crisis, no problem, no shortage of staff, nothing. It just sort of happened one day.


So now that the Furocity staff have left, we're really just right back to regular old FA, and everything is pretty normal at the moment. If there is some kind of catastrophe going on, then it's news to me.


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

It's not as if furocity staff we puppeteering the corpse of the site. I'm not saying they were not useful, and I'm disappointed resources were lost, but during the time they were on staff, FA admins still did 4 times the number of tickets. Staff was lost and thus the staff has slightly less man power, but it's not as if the admins that left are taking the majority of the work with them. So far as I am aware there is no crisis need to go out and grab admins. 
Personally I think that the forums makes a far better selection place for admins, based on what i've seen anyway. 

what happened was that two teams came together, communicated poorly, couldn't get along, and finally something snapped. There was no action on either side really that could do a great deal of help or harm to the site. 
what is being done about communication, well personally I think communication with remaining staff is mostly fine. Now it's just main site and forums trying to chat, and actually we were going pretty good so far as I could tell


----------



## Smelge (Nov 3, 2011)

FA Announcement:

Following the recent merger with Furocity staff, we have decided to trim back and streamline our staff, concentrating all the expertise into a more efficient whole, while paring out the weak links in the chain that were holding us back. In other news, the coders are hard at work, and will be for the foreseeable future, so don't ask questions about who they are or what they are doing, because that'll make them lose their place and have to start again. If you don't question it, we'll get it done sooner.

Love,

FurAffinity Public Relations


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 3, 2011)

Funnily most people would think a mass resignation, complaints about unanswered tickets, no reply to advertisers, poor development and unannounced loss of features would be problems but I guess for FA that's fine because it's back to normal. It's strange that Dragoneer spent a year organising the Furocity merger to get "additional coding  expertise [and] improved administrative structure and  coordination" though. If there were communication with the admins they would have told him that his "much needed improvement" wasn't actually needed. Things were doing so well it would be silly to think that "many of you  have been asking for (and demanding) change." It seems like the users (and Dragoneer perhaps) have a very different view of the state of FA than the rest of the admins.



			
				Clayton said:
			
		

> ew who would want to go to pedobunny
> even if fa was going down



66 221 furs.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 3, 2011)

Smelge said:


> FA Announcement:
> 
> Following the recent merger with Furocity staff, we have decided to trim back and streamline our staff, concentrating all the expertise into a more efficient whole, while paring out the weak links in the chain that were holding us back. In other news, the coders are hard at work, and will be for the foreseeable future, so don't ask questions about who they are or what they are doing, because that'll make them lose their place and have to start again. If you don't question it, we'll get it done sooner.
> 
> ...


"paring out the weak links that were holding us back"
sooo what happened to 99% of the staff



Rakuen Growlithe said:


> 66 221 furs.


CLEANSE AND PURGE
66K pedophiles booted out the door!


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 3, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> 66 221 furs.


Hi, long time viewer, recent replier. I thought your article on Flayrah was hilarious, and not in a good way.
Just checking in to say that I'd be willing to bet all my e-penis you haven't taken into account people who make accounts fucking everywhere and haven't actually abandoned FA. Because actual figures or statistics are _hard_.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 3, 2011)

Yoshiya said:
			
		

> Just checking in to say that I'd be willing to bet all my e-penis you  haven't taken into account people who make accounts fucking everywhere  and haven't actually abandoned FA. Because actual figures or statistics  are _hard_.



I never said anything about abandoning FA so I'm not sure how any of that is relevant.


----------



## Summercat (Nov 3, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Funnily most people would think a mass resignation, complaints about unanswered tickets, no reply to advertisers, poor development and unannounced loss of features would be problems but I guess for FA that's fine because it's back to normal. It's strange that Dragoneer spent a year organising the Furocity merger to get "additional coding  expertise [and] improved administrative structure and  coordination" though. If there were communication with the admins they would have told him that his "much needed improvement" wasn't actually needed. Things were doing so well it would be silly to think that "many of you  have been asking for (and demanding) change." It seems like the users (and Dragoneer perhaps) have a very different view of the state of FA than the rest of the admins.



Things are still ongoing. For example, the apparent fact of Furocity going down. Further, two of the Furocity admins (Redcoatcat and Luhka) were on vacation at the time this started, and we wanted to wait to hear from them before saying "They're staying!" Even now, things are still ongoing, and I don't think giving a state of the staff address to the userbase is the right thing to do right now.

I mean, what do you want said? 

In the end, I'm taking about half my IRL vacation at the end of this week to go through and sort and answer tickets. That's actually half the reason I'm *taking* said vacation. Other admins (Hi Qoph!) are still going to power through tickets. We're down 10 pages from a month and a half ago, so our backlog is going in the right direction again - down. I've already made a request in a journal that people who have Terms of Service trouble tickets more than 3 weeks old to note me, so I can prioritize on those. 

Beyond that, I don't know what else to say, other than "Please stand by, as soon as we figure out what is exactly going on, we'll let you know." As things stand I'm STILL confused at what went down.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 3, 2011)

*pets Summercat* I have faith in you young padawan


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 3, 2011)

Summercat said:
			
		

> I mean, what do you want said?





> One point would be to open those channels of communication with the  users. Remember that communication issue that's apparent even with the  administration?
> We have six admins leaving the site which is, I think, 20% of what we  had. That's quite a drop and I think the users should be informed  because we already know not everyone reads the forums but the loss  hasn't been announced on the main page.
> It's a chance to reassure those of us who already know about the loss.  We can find out why he was blind sided by all of this, what is changing  so that doesn't happen again and where the new admins are going to come  from.
> To use a quote, "Anyone can steer the ship in calm waters." Something  has gone very wrong and the point of a leader here is to provide some  sort of support. To reassure people that FA is actually still a viable  site and that the administration is not in shambles.



If there are still efforts to find out what happened that is fine. I was just seeing whether that process was complete and there would be some sort of word back.


----------



## Ben (Nov 3, 2011)

I know you guys are just trying to do damage control and whatnot, but all the Furocity staff leaving is a pretty huge deal. Although yes, you could say "It's just FA back to normal!", that in itself is a problem, since what FA needs to do now is start moving forward. I realize furries seem to have a higher tolerance for staying on a website that still lacks a lot of crucial features, but there does come a point where the site needs some sort of upgrade. 

I'm not sure if people are clear on this, but Gavin was brought-on partially to create the new UI (He designed Furocity himself after all), and if he leaves with his other friends (which I honestly couldn't blame him for in the slightest), then it really throws the site's future into question. So yeah, he hasn't quit yet, but when pretty much everyone he brought over goes "This site smells, later", you really have to wonder if he'll stick around as well. No matter what happens though, I find it hard to blame him for the decision he makes.


----------



## ali (Nov 3, 2011)

while trying to find gavin's contact information by ourselves, is anyone going to let him know of his site being hacked and redirecting to inkbunny and youtube vids or are the staff going to completely ignore it because they lost 5 members due to their own fault?

since he still is technically part of the fa merge until he realizes his site's been compromised because of the outcome of the failed alliance, i think the staff are glad they left now even more.. if their site's being targeted.

edit: now it's going to sofurry's beta page.


----------



## Summercat (Nov 3, 2011)

ali said:


> while trying to find gavin's contact information by ourselves, is anyone going to let him know of his site being hacked and redirecting to inkbunny and youtube vids or are the staff going to completely ignore it because they lost 5 members due to their own fault?
> 
> since he still is technically part of the fa merge until he realizes his site's been compromised because of the outcome of the failed alliance, i think the staff are glad they left now even more.. if their site's being targeted.
> 
> edit: now it's going to sofurry's beta page.



We've been trying to get in touch with Gavin. He is apparently currently without power, and thus out of reach.

Further, FA staffers are not Furocity staffers. Furocity is and never was our jurisdiction or responsibility, except in the case of the people who came from there. Furaffinity is no more responsible for the running of Furocity anymore so than SoFurry, Inkbunny, e621, or Wikipedia.


----------



## ali (Nov 3, 2011)

so when fa is/was crumbling the furocity staff can/could help when being begged but if furocity has problems "well fuck them that's not our problem even if we had an alliance lolo"

makes sense. are you guys supposed to back each other up? or has the friendship ended and everyone can go back to their sites only furocity is fucked over?


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Contacting Gavin is a nice gesture but besides that fa can do pretty much nothing about the issue. Even if we wanted to we can't. It wasn't an even trade. Ferocity got power here but no fa admin has power there.


----------



## Williamca (Nov 3, 2011)

Ali - Can you not read the "FA Staffers are not Furocity staffers" eg; there is nothing FA can do aside from contact Gavin and let him know whats going on. They do not have access to Furocity's Database/server.


----------



## ali (Nov 3, 2011)

i understand that obviously, but you'd think because of this ~merge~ they'd be willing to try and help (does this mean the end of it?) since gavin is still a contributor and the right thing to do is to contact him? besides where else could someone post about the problem in hopes of someone contacting gavin as you guys obviously do have contact with him? it's one thing if the site were down but it's being /hacked/.


----------



## Summercat (Nov 3, 2011)

ali said:


> so when fa is/was crumbling the furocity staff can/could help when being begged but if furocity has problems "well fuck them that's not our problem even if we had an alliance lolo"
> 
> makes sense. are you guys supposed to back each other up? or has the friendship ended and everyone can go back to their sites only furocity is fucked over?



The deal was always, "Some Furocity staff become Furaffnity staff," not "FA staff and Furocity staff are now one staff at both sites." Nobody on FA side (with the exception of Luhka and Gavin, as both came from Furocity) is or was at any point staff at Furocity.

We are concerned because Furocity is Gavin's baby and we're still on good terms with him, but there is *nothing* we can do to fix the problem.

Edit---

And restating, we've been *trying* to get in touch with Gavin. It's kind of hard when he is apparently without any electrical power.


----------



## Corto (Nov 3, 2011)

ali said:


> so when fa is/was crumbling the furocity staff can/could help when being begged but if furocity has problems "well fuck them that's not our problem even if we had an alliance lolo"
> 
> makes sense. are you guys supposed to back each other up? or has the friendship ended and everyone can go back to their sites only furocity is fucked over?


First understand what the co op was, then go around complaining about inane crap. This wasn't an alliance or a merge, FA and FC didn't do the fusion dance and become a mega site for all your furry porn needs, FC staff was admitted en masse to bring in some new blood. FA has never owned FC, been a part of FC, handled FC, or anything else. Besides trying to contact Gavin (which FA actually is trying to do), there's nothing we can do. It'd be the same if we started complaining to you because hey Ali, what the hell are you doing to save FC?


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Ali it was clearly stated that contact was attempted with Gavin and why it isn't working. At this point you're asking a school of fish to fly. FA has no access to the site or what is happening to it. You are about as useful as we are in this.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 3, 2011)

GreenReaper said:


> Hmm. We're getting reports that Furocity.com is redirecting to Inkbunny. Coincidence?



Actually it's now redirecting to Sofurry Beta. Though i am quite surprised at the layout.


----------



## Taasla (Nov 3, 2011)

So, Redcoatcat appears to be just a regular member now?  =\  Another admin down?


----------



## Accountability (Nov 3, 2011)

Summercat said:


> We've been trying to get in touch with Gavin. He is apparently currently without power, and thus out of reach.



He was on last night, in this thread, about three hours after the redirects started.


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Accountability said:


> He was on last night, in this thread, about three hours after the redirects started.



Maybe he was attempting to do something and his power went out.


----------



## Corto (Nov 3, 2011)

Ok I'm confused now, because what Acc said sounded an awful lot like an accusation. Are you people complaining we are not trying to inform Gavin (we are), that we are not rushing to save FC (we can't, we have literally no power over it) or that we hacked them out of spite without any gain for FA (that's retarded)? I mean surely it can't be the last one. I mean, courtesy, professionalism and common sense aside, this site can't even code itself, how the hell do you people even imagine FA would be able to do that? Not even from a moral point of view, but from a technical and practical one?


----------



## Fay V (Nov 3, 2011)

Corto said:


> Ok I'm confused now, because what Acc said sounded an awful lot like an accusation. Are you people complaining we are not trying to inform Gavin (we are), that we are not rushing to save FC (we can't, we have literally no power over it) or that we hacked them out of spite without any gain for FA (that's retarded)? I mean surely it can't be the last one. I mean, courtesy, professionalism and common sense aside, this site can't even code itself, how the hell do you people even imagine FA would be able to do that? Not even from a moral point of view, but from a technical and practical one?


The incompetence is all a ruse to get them to lower their guard!


----------



## Kesteh (Nov 3, 2011)

Some are citing security issues and internal turmoil/lacking on part of the older administration as they step down.
Lol FA. Stay classy.


----------



## OssumPawesome (Nov 3, 2011)

Corto said:


> Ok I'm confused now, because what Acc said sounded an awful lot like an accusation. Are you people complaining we are not trying to inform Gavin (we are), that we are not rushing to save FC (we can't, we have literally no power over it) or that we hacked them out of spite without any gain for FA (that's retarded)? I mean surely it can't be the last one. I mean, courtesy, professionalism and common sense aside, this site can't even code itself, how the hell do you people even imagine FA would be able to do that? Not even from a moral point of view, but from a technical and practical one?



Oh please, Corto.

I've watched enough movies and played enough video games to know that hacking is as simple as surfing fields of incandescent data or connecting identical pins.


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 3, 2011)

FA is literally the most corrupt and evil organization _ever_ you guys
Also they're hiding their true coding power behind a screen, so they can hack into Furocity and... redirect it to other sites. That'll learn em.

Also holy _shit_ the SoFurry beta is NOT A BETTER LAYOUT
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND GRAPHICS DESIGN


----------



## OssumPawesome (Nov 3, 2011)

Yoshiya said:


> FA is literally the most corrupt and evil organization _ever_ you guys
> Also they're hiding their true coding power behind a screen, so they can hack into Furocity and... redirect it to other sites. That'll learn em.
> 
> Also holy _shit_ the SoFurry beta is NOT A BETTER LAYOUT
> WHY DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND GRAPHICS DESIGN



The hilarious part is that the beta banner is kind of nice despite being too big .

But then you scroll down and cry.


----------



## Kesteh (Nov 3, 2011)

So FA was chugging along and moving forward (can't really say that with a straight face). New staff, a merger, positive things ahead.
New staff fled, merger is pretty much shot, the unknown lies ahead because higher-ups of FA keep everyone in the dark.

Does that sum this whole thing all up?


----------



## Elim Garak (Nov 3, 2011)

More drama for the drama god!
The only people who should complain are the advertisers and other people that buy any services from this site.Donations not included.

I mean, it's there for you guys, and most of you pay nothing for it and basically waste bandwidth/money.
That is just me.

It's fine to put in observations.
I do not use FA itself really, too insecure, bad layout and the likes.
I am here for FAF, and everything is fine here on the FAF in my eyes.


----------



## Kesteh (Nov 3, 2011)

Caroline Dax said:


> The only people who should complain are the advertisers and other people that buy any services from this site.



WHAT SERVICES? The only thing IS advertising and donations.

You must be new here.
This might sound shocking but the very users you're pointing out as 'worthless and have no say' are the ones that want the website to live. 
However getting said site to "listen" is nearly impossible.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 3, 2011)

Corto said:


> Ok I'm confused now, because what Acc said sounded an awful lot like an accusation. Are you people complaining we are not trying to inform Gavin (we are), that we are not rushing to save FC (we can't, we have literally no power over it) or that we hacked them out of spite without any gain for FA (that's retarded)? I mean surely it can't be the last one. I mean, courtesy, professionalism and common sense aside, this site can't even code itself, how the hell do you people even imagine FA would be able to do that? Not even from a moral point of view, but from a technical and practical one?



None of the above. It was a mere observation that he's been online since this started.

Though, perhaps he did it himself and doesn't _want_ to be contacted.


----------



## DW_ (Nov 3, 2011)

Caroline Dax said:


> More drama for the drama god!
> The only people who should complain are the advertisers and other people that buy any services from this site.Donations not included.
> 
> I mean, it's there for you guys, and most of you pay nothing for it and basically waste bandwidth/money.
> ...



First, as there are FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND OF US, everyone has the right to complain.
Second, see Kesteh.
Third, FAF is definitely not any more secure than FA. vBulletin past 3.8.whatever is known for being incredibly insecure because Internet Bastards bought Jelsoft and ran the software into the ground like they did with all their other ventures. The fact that a few of vB's former programmers left vBS to make xenForo is sorta telling of what IB did to it. IB are also greedy fuckers who charge stupid amounts for this piece of trash.


----------



## GingerM (Nov 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> I was going to make a snarky comment, but I'm actually curious.
> Did the site fall through? Is it being hacked?
> 
> By the by now it's directing to a youtube vid.
> ...



And now it's redirecting to SoFurry's beta site. Very odd.

ETA: Please disregard


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 3, 2011)

GingerM said:


> And now it's redirecting to SoFurry's beta site. Very odd.


I like it when people don't read posts in a thread, it makes the discussion easy to keep up with because all you need to do is repeat what the last person said at the given point in the conversation.


----------



## GingerM (Nov 3, 2011)

Yoshiya said:


> I like it when people don't read posts in a thread, it makes the discussion easy to keep up with because all you need to do is repeat what the last person said at the given point in the conversation.


You're right - I thought I'd reached the (current) end of the thread, but apparently not. My bad, and I apologize


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 4, 2011)

TheDW said:


> First, as there are FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND OF US, everyone has the right to complain.


to be correct theres five hundred thousand ACCOUNTS
in truth we are probably between 180,000 and 250,000 ACTUAL users and even then a small fraction will bitch the rest will go "Meh at least its still works somewhat" or "eh, no loss as we still have Inkbunny and SoFurry"


----------



## Summercat (Nov 4, 2011)

On behalf of me seeing the same arguments over and over again...

Let us please not bring up the "FA provides a free service we have no right to complain" argument. While self-entitlement arguments suck, the mentioned line of thought is just aggravating to everyone.

...including me.


----------



## rp (Nov 4, 2011)

So, A bunch of staff borrowed from Furocity left and Furocity apparently is being shut down for that reason. Could someone tell me exactly who is shutting Furocity down?  (A) the Furocity guy, (B) the Furaffinity guy or (C)  some Furaffinity fan? 

(Never used Furocity. Just very very curious.)


----------



## Draconas (Nov 4, 2011)

rp said:


> So, A bunch of staff borrowed from Furocity left and Furocity apparently is being shut down for that reason. Could someone tell me exactly who is shutting Furocity down?  (A) the Furocity guy, (B) the Furaffinity guy or (C)  some Furaffinity fan?
> 
> (Never used Furocity. Just very very curious.)




*facepalms* *WHO* said it was being shut down? As far as we know, Furocity is spitting redirects, I managed to get to their page (albeit it's broken to hell) with their IP, it's still up.


----------



## rp (Nov 4, 2011)

Draconas said:


> *facepalms* *WHO* said it was being shut down? As far as we know, Furocity is spitting redirects, I managed to get to their page (albeit it's broken to hell) with their IP, it's still up.



Well, it redirects to *The End*. If I was a Furocity user (they have/had users?) I'd take that as goodbye. Shit like that is too common way to inform users the site keeper has given up. But Thats not the point. Are the redirects work of A, B or C?


----------



## Smelge (Nov 4, 2011)

Furocity has obviously been hacked by Dragoneer and Yak.

After years of not really doing much to code their site and allowing security flaws to not be fixed, they've decided to just go and hack Furocity as revenge for their staff leaving, and also hacked in to Gavins local powergrid and shut his house off.

Their next plan is to hack the FBI so that the entire staff of Inkbunny get arrested, upload the FA code to SoFurry, irrevocably corrupting their databases, then they'll download the entire internet.


----------



## rp (Nov 4, 2011)

My guess would be that Neer has made Gawin (how?) to srap Furocity (because?). Probably we'll never know for sure. In any case I find this everlasting mysterious catastrophe fascinating. 

Oh well, back to lurking.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 4, 2011)

rp said:


> My guess would be that Neer has made Gawin (how?) to srap Furocity (because?). Probably we'll never know for sure. In any case I find this everlasting mysterious catastrophe fascinating.
> 
> Oh well, back to lurking.



So we're veering between "they suddenly got elite hacker skills and hacked the fuck out of Furocity" and "Dragoneer is now psychic and made Gavin kill his own site".

Fascinating.


----------



## Summercat (Nov 4, 2011)

Smelge said:


> Furocity has obviously been hacked by Dragoneer and Yak.
> 
> After years of not really doing much to code their site and allowing security flaws to not be fixed, they've decided to just go and hack Furocity as revenge for their staff leaving, and also hacked in to Gavins local powergrid and shut his house off.
> 
> Their next plan is to hack the FBI so that the entire staff of Inkbunny get arrested, upload the FA code to SoFurry, irrevocably corrupting their databases, then they'll download the entire internet.



Someone recently poked me on IRC and said "Hey, did you know there are people blaming FA for Furocity going down?"

And I have to giggle. Because I've seen some of these people try to lay the direct blame on FA, and I'm all "On the one hand, you claim that the coders we have are incompetant. On the other, you are now claiming they can hack and redirect a website."

Yes, I know that's not exactly what's being said, but still. Sheesh.

Now if you excuse me, I'm downloading the internet.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 4, 2011)

I note you're not denying it.


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 4, 2011)

Smelge said:


> I note you're not denying it.


He's in too deep already man
YOU WANT TO GET HIM KILLED HACKED?


----------



## rp (Nov 4, 2011)

By whois/traceroute looks like it's just a nameserver change *if* it is a hack and not intentional. No 1337 hacking necessary required.


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 4, 2011)

rp said:


> By whois/traceroute looks like it's just a nameserver change *if* it is a hack and not intentional. No 1337 hacking necessary required.


I feel like a lot of the jokes in this thread are skimming over your head a little.
Or posts in general.


----------



## Xipoid (Nov 4, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Funnily most people would think a mass resignation, complaints about unanswered tickets, no reply to advertisers, poor development and unannounced loss of features would be problems but I guess for FA that's fine because it's back to normal. It's strange that Dragoneer spent a year organising the Furocity merger to get "additional coding  expertise [and] improved administrative structure and  coordination" though. If there were communication with the admins they would have told him that his "much needed improvement" wasn't actually needed. Things were doing so well it would be silly to think that "many of you  have been asking for (and demanding) change." It seems like the users (and Dragoneer perhaps) have a very different view of the state of FA than the rest of the admins.




My point was there is no collapse coming. FA isn't going to fall apart because the Furocity admins left. The site has existed for a long while in the state it's in, so I don't see why that would suddenly change. I'm not saying that FA current is a wonderful place to do wonderful things. To be honest, I think FA needs some help, but the problem is too obfuscated. Keep in mind, I'm just a moderator. I don't get the privilege of seeing the admin forums nor IRC channel(s), so I can't speak for what goes on there. I'm merely drawing upon what I've seen, as incomplete as it is. You're going to want some other perspectives.


----------



## Summercat (Nov 4, 2011)

Smelge said:


> I note you're not denying it.



Well, yeah.

You took the cover story hook, line, and sinker, and now haven't even realized you are an otter.


----------



## rp (Nov 4, 2011)

Well, I find the mysterious stuff what is really happening with Furaffinity & Furocity more hilarious than any jokes thus far. Double Spock fascinating.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Nov 4, 2011)

Furry Website Conspiracy Theories. What will they think of next?


----------



## BRN (Nov 4, 2011)

Having just read this thread with some interest, it's amusing to note that Furocity appears to be redirecting to Sofurry.


----------



## Ben (Nov 4, 2011)

SIX said:


> Having just read this thread with some interest, it's amusing to note that Furocity appears to be redirecting to Sofurry.


 
Yes yes, it's been noted in this thread several times already.



Xipoid said:


> My point was there is no collapse coming. FA isn't going to fall apart because the Furocity admins left. The site has existed for a long while in the state it's in, so I don't see why that would suddenly change.



Eventually, it will reach a point where people are fed-up with the lack of the site's progression towards a new, more comprehensive UI. The only question is when eventually is, and if Dragoneer can get to it in time.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 4, 2011)

i enjoy the fact that the Furocity admins are whining about FA admins being twats yet they fucked over their own site/userbase to prove some sort of point that nobody gets


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 4, 2011)

Ben said:


> Eventually, it will reach a point where people are fed-up with the lack of the site's progression towards a new, more comprehensive UI. The only question is when eventually is, and if Dragoneer can get to it in time.



I doubt that will happen until at least 2015 or so. It's just so much easier to stay and work around its faults. As long as the site is online and accepting uploads and [mostly] works, most people just don't care.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 4, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I doubt that will happen until at least 2015 or so. It's just so much easier to stay and work around its faults. As long as the site is online and accepting uploads and [mostly] works, most people just don't care.



Considering that there are quite a few making quite a bit of money off the site without having to pay for it ie commissions, it's really no surprise either. This is not an endorsement to do something about people getting commission work, it's just an observation as to why you'll get a group that doesn't care. Others probably don't care because it's just easy enough access to smut - and that's just despite the statistics that most look at more clean art. I think it's just that the people into porn are just less likely to be vocal about needing features...


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 4, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Considering that there are quite a few making quite a bit of money off the site without having to pay for it ie commissions, it's really no surprise either. This is not an endorsement to do something about people getting commission work, it's just an observation as to why you'll get a group that doesn't care. Others probably don't care because it's just easy enough access to smut - and that's just despite the statistics that most look at more clean art. I think it's just that the people into porn are just less likely to be vocal about needing features...



Even so there's only so much you can do with a gallery that doesn't change much over the years before something gives and causes a lot of problems.


----------



## Corto (Nov 4, 2011)

Hey guys had you noticed Furocity now directs to SoFurry? This is extremely suspicious. I believe Dragoneer is performing a hack.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 4, 2011)

Corto said:


> Hey guys had you noticed Furocity now directs to SoFurry? This is extremely suspicious. I believe Dragoneer is performing a hack.



I'd like to think it's yak purely because it rhymes. Let's give yak flak (or a whack) for his hack attack on their rack (which is black) with a mac. 

Haha, I'm just kidding. He doesn't have a mac.


----------



## Armaetus (Nov 4, 2011)

So Furocity staff leave from the site, Gavin's without power(?) and FA is still a clusterfuck. What else is new on the lovely world of Furaffinity?

It'll remain the laughing stock of the furry community despite its popularity, and that all lays on Dragoneer and co.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 4, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> Even so there's only so much you can do with a gallery that doesn't change much over the years before something gives and causes a lot of problems.



I think being able to rake up to hundreds to thousands a month of unreported IRS income is probably a nice incentive for people (for those making money on commissions) to not care too much about a website as long as they get that money. Just saying. This is me talking about observation again why more people don't care than should. I don't know what your "Counterargument" is about other than it's not really a counterargument. I was supplying reasons why people don't care now.


----------



## Draconas (Nov 4, 2011)

WHOIS gives an  semi-working IP address, also eventually reveals their forum which, also directs to sofurry (not suprised).

And honestly whoever is saying "FA is hacking Furocity" is a complete idiot, if FA can barely get off it's own ass to even code up something (HINT: viglink opt-out), how in the flying hell would they magically do something like this?


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 4, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think being able to rake up to hundreds to thousands a month of unreported IRS income is probably a nice incentive for people (for those making money on commissions) to not care too much about a website as long as they get that money. Just saying. This is me talking about observation again why more people don't care than should. I don't know what your "Counterargument" is about other than it's not really a counterargument. I was supplying reasons why people don't care now.



Point taken. Though considering i swore that was a commissions on FA before though i can easily guess what happened to it. Though eventually things change.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 4, 2011)

rp said:


> By whois/traceroute looks like it's just a nameserver change *if* it is a hack and not intentional. No 1337 hacking necessary required.



The nameservers furocity.com uses are the same ones that furocity.net and furocitydata.com use. However, furocity.com's a record points to a server in Germany serving the redirects while the others all point to a server that appears to be in New York City.

Hmm...


----------



## Smelge (Nov 4, 2011)

Draconas said:


> And honestly whoever is saying "FA is hacking Furocity" is a complete idiot, if FA can barely get off it's own ass to even code up something (HINT: viglink opt-out), how in the flying hell would they magically do something like this?



Holy fucking shit. Finally someone said this. Let's ignore the multiple times it's been said already. But fucking finally.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 5, 2011)

Ok this thread is just stupid.

People are repeating things.

Other people are whining about repeating things, thus repeating the whining themselves and looking like hypocrites.

We all know the end result, Neer or someone will kill this thread and then we go back to jacking off to egg laying dragons (least I will *.=.*) and then something else happens that pisses everyone off. Personally, I'm all set for the day of infamy where i get banned, then I simply move the fuck on with things. You people all whine too fucking much. Mods AND normal users alike.


Damn, seriously, if I wanted to hear whining I'd go marry my mate NOW and listen to her mother in law.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 5, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> then we go back to jacking off to egg laying dragons (least I will *.=.*)


this is a good way to get stop people from reading the rest of your post (least I will asteriskperiodequalperiodasterisk)


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 5, 2011)

Clayton said:


> this is a good way to get stop people from reading the rest of your post (least I will asteriskperiodequalperiodasterisk)



Would you call a painting shit because one detail was off?

I don't think so.

Using one (sort of terrible) example to denounce an entire post as crap, and then only commenting on that said example, especially in a thread like this, makes you look like a fool and a troll.


Plus it's against ToS.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 5, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Would you call a painting shit because one detail was off?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> ...



That sentence was far from the text equivalent of a painting


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 5, 2011)

Clayton said:


> That sentence was far from the text equivalent of a painting



Once again you ignored the point.

SO I'm just going to ignore you because you're honestly not adding anything to this other than "hai eye think ur posts r dumb cuz u use metaphors"


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 5, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Once again you ignored the point.
> 
> SO I'm just going to ignore you because you're honestly not adding anything to this other than "hai eye think ur posts r dumb cuz u use metaphors"


The hell was what you said a metaphor? You crammed in something about jacking off to dragons laying eggs.


----------



## Xaerun (Nov 5, 2011)

Cinox: Thanks for the story about what you jack off to, it adds a lot to your post. SOMUCHSARCASM
Clayton: Let 'em lie.


*EDIT*


I'm glad you still strived to get the last word in, great job Cinox.
VVVVVVVVV


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 5, 2011)

Xaerun said:


> Cinox: Thanks for the story about what you jack off to, it adds a lot to your post. SOMUCHSARCASM


Then how's about a TL;DR:

Everyone in this thread is retarded. Shut up and stop whining, and stop making threads that are infested with shit.

Happy?


----------



## Smelge (Nov 5, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Everyone in this thread is retarded. Shut up and stop whining, and stop making threads that are infested with shit.



It was going along ok until you messed it up.

Good job there, Skippy.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 5, 2011)

Yeah, let's just get back to putting on our tinfoil hats and crying about Furocity and FA or whatever we are crying about

I still find it funny how they'd fuck over their own site/make Furocity unable to access to their userbase to somehow jab at fa


----------



## Ben (Nov 5, 2011)

Yeah, I'm not getting why it's still redirecting to SoFurry. I mean, if it was a hack, surely it would have been taken care of by now, right?


----------



## GingerM (Nov 5, 2011)

Ben said:


> Yeah, I'm not getting why it's still redirecting to SoFurry. I mean, if it was a hack, surely it would have been taken care of by now, right?


You would think so, but personally I know nothing at all about the administrative/support structure of Furocity. Someone up-thread mentioned "Gavin" is away/out of touch; it's possible that Gavin is the only person who has the access to fix this. I'd hope not, but it's possible.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 5, 2011)

Smelge said:


> It was going along ok until you messed it up.
> 
> Good job there, Skippy.



The thread was doomed to be full of whining and repetitive bullshit before I arrived.

Stop being so stupid.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Nov 5, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Everyone in this thread is retarded. Shut up and stop whining, and stop making threads that are infested with shit.



Your posts aren't exactly improving the quality of this thread, either. :/


----------



## Corto (Nov 5, 2011)

Cinox would you mind shuting the hell up? Your posts are the worst.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 5, 2011)

You know i was thinking something about the furocity redirecting to the sofurry beta. I'm not sure i should say this but. isn't it kind of unusual that furocity would disappear on the 3rd at the same time that sofurry 2.0 beta was announced suddenly being redirected to there now all of the sudden?


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 5, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> You know i' was thinking something about the furocity redirecting to the sofurry beta. I'm not sure i should say this but. isn't it kind of unusual that furocity would disappear on the 3rd at the same time that sofurry 2.0 beta was announced suddenly being redirected to there now all of the sudden?



Yes, and 9/11 was an inside job, Area 51 is a secret base filled with aliens and Santa Claus isn't real.


----------



## Xenke (Nov 5, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> You know i was thinking something about the furocity redirecting to the sofurry beta. I'm not sure i should say this but. isn't it kind of unusual that furocity would disappear on the 3rd at the same time that sofurry 2.0 beta was announced suddenly being redirected to there now all of the sudden?



I'm pretty sure SF 2.0 beta has been around longer than that, foo.


----------



## Summercat (Nov 5, 2011)

DarkMettaur said:


> Yes, and 9/11 was an inside job, Area 51 is a secret base filled with aliens and Santa Claus isn't real.



Yes, DarkMettaur, there is a Santa Claus.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 5, 2011)

Corto said:


> Cinox would you mind shuting the hell up? Your posts are the worst.



Nah, I have every right to post here (within the ToS), and last time I checked you're not a judge of quality.


----------



## Corto (Nov 5, 2011)

Actually, see the bolded nickname? That means I am. You have every right to post, indeed, but if all you post is inane spam, confrontational non-arguments and insults against other users then I have the duty to tell you to stop, and making you stop if you don't comply.

So yeah, you can keep posting if you want but just do me a favour and try to mind your posts.


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 5, 2011)

Summercat said:


> Yes, DarkMettaur, there is a Santa Claus.



Oh right.

And the moon landing was a hoax.


----------



## Aden (Nov 5, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Nah, I have every right to post here (within the ToS), and last time I checked you're not a judge of quality.



Actually, the spam/shitposting/derailment rules _are_ pretty much rooted in judging post quality. That's kinda what we're here for.

edit: what corto said


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> You know i was thinking something about the furocity redirecting to the sofurry beta. I'm not sure i should say this but. isn't it kind of unusual that furocity would disappear on the 3rd at the same time that sofurry 2.0 beta was announced suddenly being redirected to there now all of the sudden?


you're 2-3 months late on realizing SoFurry been having that OPEN beta of their new UI.
Something FA probably wont do though :V


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Aden said:


> Actually, the spam/shitposting/derailment rules _are_ pretty much rooted in judging post quality. That's kinda what we're here for.
> 
> edit: what corto said



I'm not shitposting, I'm only saying what the big heads don't like.

But if you wanna call it shitposting for pointing out futilities in complaining on a site that has its history full of fuckups, then be my guest.


By the way, http://beta.sofurry.com/forum/view/thread?id=13901#forum_post_504538

You're not welcome.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 6, 2011)

Well that definitely answers most of my questions from that link. So it's confirmed now that the merger has failed. So what happens now?


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> Well that definitely answers most of my questions from that link. So it's confirmed now that the merger has failed. So what happens now?



We do as all respectable members of this fine community do.

Nothing.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

DarkMettaur said:


> Yes, and 9/11 was an inside job, Area 51 is a secret base filled with aliens and Santa Claus isn't real.



> 9/11 conspiracy
> Area 51 conspiracy
> Santa Claus *isn't* real

??? was this a typo? ahaha I hope so


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> Well that definitely answers most of my questions from that link. So it's confirmed now that the merger has failed. So what happens now?



The current staff will continue to run the site in to the ground. FA doesn't have any coders(yak is not a programmer), so FA will continue suffering from what programmers call bit rot.

I've offered to help Dragoneer rewrite the site, I'd personally use Ruby on Rails or Django for such a rewrite. However ignorance, bigotry and the inability to foresee future business needs were displayed instead.

*To the current staff: *Have fun running the site in to the ground without proper staff. If you want someone who knows how to do business like getting the CC processors back, completing a rewrite or any other business relevant task, then feel free to drop me a line. I know people, more so than anyone on this forum, I wouldn't mind working with business acquaintances to work out an agreement to get a auction website and donation pool back on FurAffinity.


----------



## Ben (Nov 6, 2011)

IK, I don't know if you just lack self-awareness or what, but there isn't a single person here who would agree that not accepting help from you reflects poorly on that individual, no matter who they are.

Anyway, so this post actually has a purpose, Furocity seems to be redirecting again to this. :l I'm not really sure what to make of this, honestly.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:
			
		

> By the way, http://beta.sofurry.com/forum/view/t...um_post_504538



Interesting. So just a few months in FA was enough to break the merger and get him to leave the furry fandom. That's not exactly a great endorsement of FA.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

Ben said:


> IK, I don't know if you just lack self-awareness or what, but there isn't a single person here who would agree that not accepting help from you reflects poorly on that individual, no matter who they are.
> 
> Anyway, so this post actually has a purpose, Furocity seems to be redirecting again to this. :l I'm not really sure what to make of this, honestly.



lol brb leaving furry forever


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

Wait so he's quitting furry altogether?


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

Ben said:


> IK, I don't know if you just lack self-awareness or what, but there isn't a single person here who would agree that not accepting help from you reflects poorly on that individual, no matter who they are.



Given the success of my own career, a person would have to be the village idiot to not accept help from me.

Tell me Ben, what's your career, how much do you make, and how many people have you managed?


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

Corto said:


> Wait so he's quitting furry altogether?


Sure as fuck sounds like that to me. How lame


Clayton for Administrator 2011
My skills are as follows
1. I never sleep
2. I like to yell at people
3. I have no life so I will always answer TTs

Vote for me



insane_kangaroo said:


> Given the success of my own career, a person would have to be the village idiot to not accept help from me.
> 
> Tell me Ben, what's your career, how much do you make, and how many people have you managed?


 
Please IK, please don't turn this into an "I make more money than you" tyrade
I will have to whip you back in your crate if you can't get along!!


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

IK, Ben, if you wanna discuss your private lives and careeers or whatever, please take it to PMs. Literally no one here gives a damn, and it's off topic.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Wow, this is a damn shame. I can only wonder what Gavin went through to make him come to such a decision. He's always been level-headed about things, and now... 

All I can say is:

Good JOB Dragoneer! Good, fucking, job.

Oh and in case you can't catch it: I'm being sarcastic. I'm not actually padding your ass.


----------



## sandfox (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer can't run FA and has driven away the person who was going to code the new UI. 

Where does FA go now? Who can fix it that Dragoneer won't drive away? 



> Daemonshyai       User
> 6 Nov 2011 16:31:33
> 
> I realize a lot of people have been waiting for some answers  about  this for quite a few days now. I have been having issues with my  power  at home, but everything seems to be working again just fine now.
> ...



http://beta.sofurry.com/forum/view/thread?id=13901


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Please IK, please don't turn this into an "I make more money than you" tyrade
> I will have to whip you back in your crate if you can't get along!!



Money has a part to do with it, but I'm getting more at the responsibility side of things.

Gavin's career is much like mine, figuring such out after reading his explanation. He's more than just a coder, he's a capable software engineer who tried to do something great for a sub culture of society.

Gavin leaving is more of the "I got bored with furry, there's money to be made and I'm not making it here." Engineers like Gavin typically make anywhere from 70-130k a year, why should he continue the tirade of managing FurAffinity when there is money to be made elsewhere?

I on the other hand would like to see monetary benefit from an auction site on furaffinity, no matter how small the reimbursement to create and maintain an auction site may be.

You see Clayton, as stated before, it goes farther than just money. Gavin and his staff are responsible individuals, FA administration is not. While the FA administration are learning, they need someone to guide them on a right path. I'd be such the individual, but I'd have to leave /furi/ forever.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Interesting. So just a few months in FA was enough to break the merger and get him to leave the furry fandom. That's not exactly a great endorsement of FA.



Judging by the history of FA itself, literally no one will give a shit, and we'll just do what we normally do.

Complain, upload, complain about upload, whine at Neer, shit on Neer, make jokes about Neer., etc.

It's a vicious cycle.


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

Wow IK that doesn't make you sound arrogant at all.


----------



## Armaetus (Nov 6, 2011)

Gee, what else is new? Unprofessionalism? Welcome to 2009, Gavin :V Could what happened be directly related to FA's so-called team of brilliant minds being childish/unprofessional? :V

Now with Furocity potentially disappearing, what now?

I wouldn't have expected him not post on FAF in this very thread what is going on but whatever. It's likely a matter of time before he gives up and the site is back its same old shitty self. Again.

If this isn't a wake-up call to Dragoneer and his buddies, I don't know what would.

Hey look, the former Furocity staff members are still on the FA Staff roster! It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to remove them. I would have updated the team page immediately after the resignations, not give this false sense that we still have new members helping us.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Glaice said:


> If this isn't a wake-up call to Dragoneer and his buddies, I don't know what would.



That was said about every other major event that done fucked him over.

Seriously, if it wasn't Neer I'd think the owner of FA was a troll. Just fucking with us and shit man. *puts on tinfoil hat*


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

Didn't he already give up? That's what I got from his letter that was linked to like 4 times already.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> That was said about every other major event that done fucked him over.
> 
> Seriously, if it wasn't Neer I'd think the owner of FA was a troll. Just fucking with us and shit man. *puts on tinfoil hat*


 Not just him, either. The countless users on FA, the affected users of YiffyLeaks, and people who have tried to help him and certain people on his god awful staff.


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

Glaice said:


> Gee, what else is new? Unprofessionalism? Welcome to 2009, Gavin :V Could what happened be directly related to FA's so-called team of brilliant minds being childish/unprofessional? :V
> 
> Now with Furocity potentially disappearing, what now?
> 
> ...


Only problem I have with SoFurry's admin team its too nice in my book but they are uniformed.


----------



## sandfox (Nov 6, 2011)

Can the rest of the staff get rid of Dragoneer? 

How can anyone fix fa with him in charge?


----------



## Xenke (Nov 6, 2011)

sandfox said:


> Can the rest of the staff get rid of Dragoneer?
> 
> How can anyone fix fa with him in charge?



"_Can the rest of the admins get rid of the guy who owns the servers and pay the bills_"

Haha, yea, right. :roll:


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

sandfox said:


> Can the rest of the staff get rid of Dragoneer?
> 
> How can anyone fix fa with him in charge?


you have to slay Neer, one of the loot he drops is "Control of FA"

but that wont happen cause neer being neer as in always paranoid of others probably have it set that they cant even over throw him if they tried :V


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> Not just him, either. The countless users on FA, the affected users of YiffyLeaks, and people who have tried to help him and certain people on his god awful staff.


Users? Who said anything about users? Fuck the users,we must make sure Dragoneer isn't emotionally upset because his brilliant site was ruined by a bunch of angry people.

What sort of protection can keep the evil of failure and responsibility from destroying FA?


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

Oh dear. This isn't what I was expecting from this thread at all :c

So much for the merger then.



			
				Gavin's post said:
			
		

> But then I remembered that this website, *Sofurry* exists, and figured that this *is the best hope this fandom has* for a decently designed and well-run site.



We're all fucked.

So, after managing to drive off FA's best chances of actually getting anywhere, what now?



Spoiler: What now?



Nothing


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Users? Who said anything about users? Fuck the users,we must make sure Dragoneer isn't emotionally upset because his brilliant site was ruined by a bunch of angry people.
> 
> What sort of protection can keep the evil of failure and responsibility from destroying FA?


 You're right, I totally forgot. Users don't mean anything. I mean.. nevermind the fact if he LOSES uesrs his website will become completely obso- and yea i'm gonna stop right there.

FA is broken beyond ALL hope, Dragoneer is a tyrant and has no desire to share, or open his idealism to others when it would benefit him AND his website in a positive way. He's destroying everything he has left. HOWEVER:
FA is popular, for all the wrong reasons, but it IS popular. That's the only thing keeping it alive, popular and unique hits a month. That's all he cares about right now: Popularity of a website he sinks WAY too much money in to. It's.. a very sad state of affairs, but there is NOTHING any one on this planet can do to change it, except Dragoneer, and well, we all see how well THAT'S turning out.
I want to see FA succeed.. I want to see it become a better place and the people on it uniform and professional.. but I don't think I, or any of the faithful users ever will.

Edit below here-
Dragoneer, I know you hate me, and that's fine, I hate you too. But for the love of Jesusmon not everyone who says something bad about you, or your website is out to get you and a big mean evil trolly mctroll face, YOU DO THIS TO YOURSELF. Yiffyleaks was your fault, and you've done absolutely nothing to fix it in case it (Read: Will) happen(s) again. Haven't you violated the trust of your users enough? Or do you TRULY not care about the people who MAKE your website as popular as it is, and you prefer to use them/us as a stepping stone for your pride and ego, for sake of bragging "Yea bro, I totally own the largest furry website on the planet, you should praise me." If it weren't for us, you'd have no website, and certainly no claim to fame.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> FA is popular, for all the wrong reasons, but it IS popular. That's the only thing keeping it alive, popular and unique hits a month. That's all he cares about right now.



And that is exactly why I say "Fuck the users."

All Neer could need is an archive of porn and around 100 users, and one little spark would be enough to generate a month's worth of drama, lulz, and page hits (and therefore, revenue from advertisement). I've been here a while, I've seen this shit happen (Chewfox) and I've read about the rest of those fuckwads that actually draw attention to the site itself (IK, Dracoguard LupineAssassin, etc.)


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:
			
		

> All Neer could need is an archive of porn and around 100 users, and one  little spark would be enough to generate a month's worth of drama, lulz,  and page hits (and therefore, revenue from advertisement). I've been  here a while, I've seen this shit happen (Chewfox) and I've read about  the rest of those fuckwads that actually draw attention to the site  itself (IK, Dracoguard LupineAssassin, etc.)



What? That doesn't make any sense. Not least of all because the adverts are at a set rate regardless of traffic.


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> We're all fucked.


hey pick, would you want SoFurry or Inkbunny in the end


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> What? That doesn't make any sense. Not least of all because the adverts are at a set rate regardless of traffic.



IIRC, you need to hit a certain number however to be eligible for the payment.

Though it'd make more sense if 'Neer even HAD advertisement, and I don't mean pay him to put up a banner for furry commissions like we normally do. I mean actual ads, from actual companies.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> hey pick, would you want SoFurry or Inkbunny in the end


 Neither website bothers me enough to give an opinion or a hatred, IMO. I can block keywords on IB, which means I can block the cub porn and stuff I don't like. If it's not tagged right? Oh well. SEeing it once or twice a week won't kill me. XD


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> hey pick, would you want SoFurry or Inkbunny in the end



I've no idea what Inkbunny's community is like, so I'll vote SoFurry purely because Inkbunny bans the porn I like :V


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I've no idea what Inkbunny's community is like, so I'll vote SoFurry purely because Inkbunny bans the porn I like :V



Remember, it's okay to have cub porn but human porn is icky!!!!1


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

I might add... just to be a voice of reason for a minute, that even us mods here on the forums are basically unaware of what really went on in this whole situation.  Everyone in this thread is coming up with opinions based on limited information, that being the copy-pasted posts from the Furocity staff and the fact that the merger disintegrated.  I'm holding off on my opinion for the time being because of that and because of the little I do know about the FA staff side of things.
Basically, from my point of view, I was sitting in a room somewhere with the other S-mods.  We heard a lot of shouting through the walls, but we couldn't really make much of it out.  What we could make out sounded less like a discussion and more like someone yelling at a secretary who refused to let him come talk to the people in charge.  Then all of the sudden, someone storms into the other room, goes, 'Fuck you, I quit', and then walks out.  Then we hear over the radio that FA's being badmouthed by the Furocity staff who left.
So what happened?  Hell if I know.  It could have been FA's staff's fault for being 'unprofessional', or it could have been that the Furocity staff simply had no intentions of working _with_ FA's staff, and got offended when FA's staff still wanted to have a say in how the site was run.  Or most likely, it was somewhere in between.  But I don't know, and neither do any of you.  So, I mean, keep on screaming 'death to Dragoneer' if it makes you feel better, but at least know that the true story is still shrouded in mystery.


----------



## Xenke (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Though it'd make more sense if 'Neer even HAD advertisement, and I don't mean pay him to put up a banner for furry commissions like we normally do. I mean actual ads, from actual companies.



Do you remember what it was like when the forums had regular ads?


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Do you remember what it was like when the forums had regular ads?



We had ads? x]


----------



## Aden (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I'm not shitposting, I'm only saying what the big heads don't like.
> 
> But if you wanna call it shitposting for pointing out futilities in complaining on a site that has its history full of fuckups, then be my guest.


 


CinoxFellpyre said:


> The thread was doomed to be full of whining and repetitive bullshit before I arrived.
> 
> Stop being so stupid.


 


CinoxFellpyre said:


> Then how's about a TL;DR:
> 
> Everyone in this thread is retarded. Shut up and stop whining, and stop making threads that are infested with shit.
> 
> Happy?



I can see how _the man_ is really keeping you down here



> You're not welcome.



haaaarsh, brah :C


----------



## Bobskunk (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> ...Everyone in this thread is coming up with opinions based on limited information...



Yes, that really seems to be a pattern around FA's crises, doesn't it?  Really makes you think.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:
			
		

> Neither website bothers me enough to give an opinion or a hatred, IMO. I  can block keywords on IB, which means I can block the cub porn and  stuff I don't like. If it's not tagged right? Oh well. SEeing it once or  twice a week won't kill me. XD



You know you can block tags on SoFurry too. It's just FA that hasn't implemented that feature. SoFurry 2.0 also allows users to add missing tags to submissions.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> So what happened?  Hell if I know. But  I don't know, and neither do any of you.



Le Renard,

You seem to forget the majority of posters here keep up with what the admins do. This doesn't extend only to the current FA administration but the past members of administration.

You may not know how staff acts, but WE DO! They start/get caught up/ and implicate themselves in the drama. Some of them, one comes to mind which is no longer an admin, caused a drama storm. Reading notes, Dragoneer himself stirs the pot around causing more drama.

We know, you don't. It's extremely obvious what happened based on input from the Furocity staff.

So please, don't assume we're oblivious to what the staff has done and continues to do which is highly frowned upon by everyone.


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> You know you can block tags on SoFurry too. It's just FA that hasn't implemented that feature. *SoFurry 2.0 also allows users to add missing tags to submissions*.


to which I have been happily using to troll users till they fix it where the user have to verify the tag something the user base have been asking for


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> I might add... just to be a voice of reason for a minute, that even us mods here on the forums are basically unaware of what really went on in this whole situation.  Everyone in this thread is coming up with opinions based on limited information, that being the copy-pasted posts from the Furocity staff and the fact that the merger disintegrated.  I'm holding off on my opinion for the time being because of that and because of the little I do know about the FA staff side of things.
> Basically, from my point of view, I was sitting in a room somewhere with the other S-mods.  We heard a lot of shouting through the walls, but we couldn't really make much of it out.  What we could make out sounded less like a discussion and more like someone yelling at a secretary who refused to let him come talk to the people in charge.  Then all of the sudden, someone storms into the other room, goes, 'Fuck you, I quit', and then walks out.  Then we hear over the radio that FA's being badmouthed by the Furocity staff who left.
> So what happened?  Hell if I know.  It could have been FA's staff's fault for being 'unprofessional', or it could have been that the Furocity staff simply had no intentions of working _with_ FA's staff, and got offended when FA's staff still wanted to have a say in how the site was run.  Or most likely, it was somewhere in between.  But I don't know, and neither do any of you.  So, I mean, keep on screaming 'death to Dragoneer' if it makes you feel better, but at least know that the true story is still shrouded in mystery.



Please tell me you used google translate for that text in your avatar.



Xenke said:


> Do you remember what it was like when the forums had regular ads?





LizardKing said:


> We had ads? x]



I accidentally the adblocker.


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

Bobskunk said:
			
		

> Yes, that really seems to be a pattern around FA's crises, doesn't it?


Believe me.  We've had this discussion in the mod forums probably half a dozen times by now.  It's a problem.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> But I don't know, and neither do any of you.  So, I mean, keep on screaming 'death to Dragoneer' if it makes you feel better, but at least know that the true story is still shrouded in mystery.



I'm just going by Occam's Razor really. On the one hand, we know for a fact that communication has always been a major issue, as evidenced by pretty much _every problem FA ever had_, even between its own staff. So when this shit goes down and again communication issues seem to form a major part of it, that seems far more likely than... you know, I don't even know what the alternative is. Malice? It's Furocity that's suffered, not FA, so unless they're conspiring to fuck up their own site, I'm going to go with the obvious.


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 6, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:
			
		

> to which I have been happily using to troll users till they fix it where  the user have to verify the tag something the user base have been  asking for



-.- Very constructive. I understand it's something that can be disabled for certain users. I'm not saying it's perfect yet (is in the beta after all) but it's a useful feature. It's also a new feature, which is a feature that wasn't around before. Just clarifying for those that only use FA.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> You know you can block tags on SoFurry too. It's just FA that hasn't implemented that feature. SoFurry 2.0 also allows users to add missing tags to submissions.


 I did not know this! I haven't really.. signed into SoFurry in quite some time. XD I'll have to check it out now that it has a new UI beta, thank you. =]


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> I've no idea what Inkbunny's community is like, so I'll vote SoFurry purely because Inkbunny bans the porn I like :V


try telling an artist that they missing the cub tag in their cub porn, recieve them flipping out by saying you arent open person.
SoFurry you can post the cub tag yourself and go on with your life...though I have been abusing it to piss off some furs over there.

Big thing of both is that they push to be a community and have communities within it.


SoFurry its just the lesser of two evils


----------



## Bobskunk (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> Believe me.  We've had this discussion in the mod forums probably half a dozen times by now.  It's a problem.



so stop fucking talking about it and do something.  FA staff is paralyzed because only Dragoneer can do anything and sign off on major things.  And hey, thank fuck, now we don't have Xenke piping up and saying "DON'T BLAME HIM ALONE, NOW THERE ARE TWO OWNERS."  That predictable outcome really lends itself to thoughts that 'neer was hoping for a new UI and a scapegoat to share all blame while Gavin and the Furocity team got nothing.  What was he THINKING?

You can't even release a staff code of conduct because it's not done yet and everything is shrouded in "STATE SECRETS" mentality.  You're helping to maintain that status quo by telling everyone to quiet down because none of us clearly have any idea what's going on because we're not even on staff.  Never mind the fact that you're also on staff and are mostly clueless, by your own admission.  You're part of a broken enterprise, and I wonder what's actually keeping you around.  As much as I disagree with the pace and mentality behind handling that one problem I disagreed with, you don't seem like the boot-licking, water-carrying type, yet here you are.  If you realize you can't change things and aren't in it for glory that comes (or came) with being staff on the biggest furry site on the internet, what is your interest in doing your part to keep things as-is?

Why stay?


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:
			
		

> So when this shit goes down and again communication issues seem to form a major part of it, that seems far more likely than... you know, I don't even know what the alternative is.


What I would honestly love to have is a timeline of events to post here, so we could nail down what the problem was.  Communication, as I understand it, was actually an issue on both sides this time.  Here's what I know: Gavin makes a unilateral decision about firing certain staff-members that turns out to be ill-considered, FA's staff retaliates harshly, people get offended, then smooth things over.  Then we have this staff code of conduct.  Furocity's staff follows it to the letter, while FA's staff is still unsure if it's been finalized yet, which leads to more misunderstandings in terms of how trouble tickets are handled.  FA's staff comes here and tells us that Furocity's staff refuses to communicate with them, so people start getting suspicious, and tension builds.  We reach out, we start to bridge the gap, then someone posts a bunch of Googled info about the new staff members, and Furocity jumps ship and starts badmouthing the whole site.  Now Gavin says he quits.
So basically, I'm left sitting here in a daze going, what the fuck just happened?  Maybe you can understand why I don't want to form an opinion just yet.  I don't know what opinion to have.  So I'm just letting you all know why that is.

Edit:


			
				Bobskunk said:
			
		

> You're helping to maintain that status quo by telling everyone to quiet down because none of us clearly have any idea what's going on because we're not even on staff.


I'm not telling everyone to quiet down.  I'm telling people that none of us know what's going on.
Yes, I'm staff and I'm in the dark.  That's because I'm forum staff, and forum staff only.  We've been kept out of the loop for a long time, and frankly, we're all pretty tired of it.  This is what I mean when I say we've had this discussion.  Unfortunately, all we can really do is complain and hope that someone eventually takes notice.
Why do I stick with the site...?  I'm here to maintain the Writer's Bloc.  That's about it.  I can't speak for the others.


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> What I would honestly love to have is a timeline of events to post here, so we could nail down what the problem was.  Communication, as I understand it, was actually an issue on both sides this time.  Here's what I know: Gavin makes a unilateral decision about firing certain staff-members that turns out to be ill-considered, FA's staff retaliates harshly, people get offended, then smooth things over.  Then we have this staff code of conduct.  Furocity's staff follows it to the letter, while FA's staff is still unsure if it's been finalized yet, which leads to more misunderstandings in terms of how trouble tickets are handled.  FA's staff comes here and tells us that Furocity's staff refuses to communicate with them, so people start getting suspicious, and tension builds.  We reach out, we start to bridge the gap, then someone posts a bunch of Googled info about the new staff members, and Furocity jumps ship and starts badmouthing the whole site.  Now Gavin says he quits.
> So basically, I'm left sitting here in a daze going, what the fuck just happened?  Maybe you can understand why I don't want to form an opinion just yet.  I don't know what opinion to have.  So I'm just letting you all know why that is.
> 
> Edit:
> ...



Closest thing we have is that one thing Eevee made of all the major events happening on FA.
Though it seems its either miscommunication, using the wrong words, or acting on impulse than stopping to think.


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

I think what Renard is maybe not actually trying to say but I'll put words on his mouth anyway is that everyone here assumes malice from one side when it can just as easily be malice from the other side, from both sides, stupidity from either side, from both sides, or a mix of any of those. 
I had an opinion formed around the whole thing during the merge (which I mostly kept to myself, only mentioned to staff), then this happened, I learned some new facts and now my opinion is mostly neutral/I dunno what to think. 
So yeah you people have every right to complain, and if there's two sides to the story and you only hear one it's natural you'll feel more inclined to believe that, but keep in mind just because someone talks first that doesn't necessarily mean they're telling the complete truth, or are being unbiased.

I'm not trying to defend anyone here, and I'm certainly not going to white knight defend FA (despite myself I have grown to like this site and it's community but that doesn't mean I don't think some stuff has been handled in the worst possible way, which is hella frustrating), just trying to keep my opinions objective. But that's just me.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm going to go with stupidity from both sides. And a whole bunch of ego.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Closest thing we have is that one thing Eevee made of all the major events happening on FA.
> Though it seems its either miscommunication, using the wrong words, or acting on impulse than stopping to think.



99% of the time it is the latter.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

Not that it really changes anything anyway, regardless of whose fault it is. It's not going to get FA its new UI, it wont bring back the staff and it wont reverse Furocity's apparent demise. 

FA is basically back where it was before the merger was ever discussed, and the only product is an (apparently) incomplete CoC and some drama.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

The UI doesn't exist. Period.

It's nothing more than some bullshit excuse that everyone uses to stay on FA. If it weren't for that and that people have friends here, this site would've been deserted.


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes I'm sure the only reason people use FA is because of promises of a new UI.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Corto said:


> Yes I'm sure the only reason people use FA is because of promises of a new UI.



Way to cut off on what I said. Again.


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 6, 2011)

Honestly I use FA because it's the only furry site that doesn't have a shit/overly complex UI.

SoFurry is a clusterfuck, even the beta.

InkBunny also because it has pedos but it looks like whoever designed it is still on a 640x480 fucking screen res. Everything is fucking everywhere, too.

FA, due to is obsoleteness, fills that sort of 'Hello, I am a gallery that you can post comments on and follow people with'. That is all I want people. It is not that difficult. But apparently to every other art site, that is the hardest thing to do.


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

EDIT: Ok fuck it I'm not here to argue this shit. I gave my opinion already on this whole thing, I'll just limit myself to moderate.


----------



## Bobskunk (Nov 6, 2011)

Corto said:


> EDIT: Ok fuck it I'm not here to argue this shit. I gave my opinion already on this whole thing, I'll just limit myself to moderate.



later nerd


----------



## Fay V (Nov 6, 2011)

From my point of view, I think this all stems from one thing and the rest was just coming from that. 
The biggest problem with the merger is that it blindsided all of FA's staff. 

Gavin and Neer were working on this for a year, the impression I got from Gavin's staff was that they were informed about the merge and how it would be working out. FA's staff were told "Hey guys, by the way, these are your bosses"
The furocity staff worked as if both sides of the staff were fully informed and the CoC was the letter of the law. 
The FA staff operated trying to learn for themselves and work out how these staff were supposed to come together. 

So there were incidents, and fights, and just when staff could maybe cross the bridge they were doxed. 

The fact of the matter is it didn't have a chance of succeeding. When one staff is given a plan, and the other is told "this happened, figure it out" then left alone, it is doomed to fail. Neer had a year to plan this. It boggles my mind that he didn't think to just tell staff "hey by the way..." even the admins.
The really shitty thing is, I know we have admins that make damn fine administrators, but they can't do anything because it all comes down to Neer.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

I will blow my brains out before I ever step foot in Pedo-CentralInkBunny or Dogfucker-CitySoFurry

Oh well, stuck with poop FA


----------



## Corto (Nov 6, 2011)

Bobskunk said:


> later nerd


Hugs and kissies O3O   
<3~~


----------



## Ben (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> I will blow my brains out before I ever step foot in Pedo-CentralInkBunny or Dogfucker-CitySoFurry
> 
> Oh well, stuck with poop FA



Wait, how is SoFurry any more filled with dogfuckers than Furaffinity is? I'm missing something here.


----------



## GingerM (Nov 6, 2011)

DarkMettaur said:


> Honestly I use FA because it's the only furry site that doesn't have a shit/overly complex UI.
> 
> SoFurry is a clusterfuck, even the beta.
> 
> ...



I'm with Dark on FA's user interface. It does look a bit dated, but I don't need the overly fancy graphics; it detracts from what I want to look at. Really, about the only thing I'd like to see implemented on FA - and this is not a UI thing - is the ability to block by tags and to tag pieces that aren't tagged or aren't tagged correctly.


----------



## Kesteh (Nov 6, 2011)

So tl;dr, Dragoneer is _still_ fucking over FA.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Gavin didn't make that post:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884408/#cid:22691015

Looks like we ALL got trolled, or so I hope. Because Gavin is a lot more professional then that post.

Edit:
Journal deleted
Basically, Sciggles and Damatarus said they've spoken to Gavin on the phone.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> Gavin didn't make that post:
> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884408/#cid:22691015
> 
> Looks like we ALL got trolled, or so I hope. Because Gavin is a lot more professional then that post.



I'm just gonna shorten my paragraph to: Ya know....I'm gonna call bullshit on all of it.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I'm just gonna shorten my paragraph to: Ya know....I'm gonna call bullshit on all of it.


 Only time will tell.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> Gavin didn't make that post:
> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884408/#cid:22691015
> 
> Looks like we ALL got trolled, or so I hope. Because Gavin is a lot more professional then that post.
> ...



No screenshot? Pfft.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

My bad no sceenies

Here's a second journal: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884312/


----------



## Selphius (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> My bad no sceenies
> 
> Here's a second journal: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884312/



Wow. I'm new to furry drama. This entire thing is awfully interesting.


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 6, 2011)

GingerM said:


> I'm with Dark on FA's user interface. It does look a bit dated, but I don't need the overly fancy graphics; it detracts from what I want to look at. Really, about the only thing I'd like to see implemented on FA - and this is not a UI thing - is the ability to block by tags and to tag pieces that aren't tagged or aren't tagged correctly.



Exactly.

I don't want everything to look beautiful. I don't want super-fancy flash or HTML5 or whatever the fuck based super-zoom in preview windows, or a million things to fill out on my user page with custom icons and banners and colour schemes and stylized buttons for everything and hnggh.

Just.

Give me a dark background, icons for images, commenting, and enforced tagging and the ability to block certain tags. And it would be beautiful. This is an art site, not a fucking social media site. Why does everyone want to look like deviantart/twitter/facebook/whatever I HATE IT.

Fuck.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Selphius said:


> Wow. I'm new to furry drama. This entire thing is awfully interesting.



>New to furry drama

Welcome to the Furry Fandom! Your complimentary pamphlets are on the table to your left, and please remember to pick up the book titled "Furry: There's always drama. Yes, always" on your way out.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> My bad no sceenies
> 
> Here's a second journal: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884312/



Bahaha. If that's true then +10 to whoever posted that thread on SoYiffyFurry. Well played.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Bahaha. If that's true then +10 to whoever posted that thread on SoYiffyFurry. Well played.


Don't give too much credit, you know how easy it is for drama to be sparked in the fandom.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 6, 2011)

Not to mention score for the person who took the screencap of that original post.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

HEHEHAHAHA I GOT SCREENS, BITCHES


We talked to the hacker! we know who he is!

but we will not tell...


come one, come all, come and solve the furaffinity riddle

http://i43.tinypic.com/io3wbs.png

Dragoneer, tell Damaratus and Sciggles to stop spreading rumors, it just makes the situation worse


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> HEHEHAHAHA I GOT SCREENS, BITCHES
> 
> 
> We talked to the hacker! we know who he is!
> ...




Got any clues or hints as to who it is?


----------



## DarkMettaur (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> HEHEHAHAHA I GOT SCREENS, BITCHES
> 
> 
> We talked to the hacker! we know who he is!
> ...



No.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Don't give too much credit, you know how easy it is for drama to be sparked in the fandom.



It is, but some real effort went into writing that.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> Got any clues or hints as to who it is?


Of cousre not! That is the FA riddle. Noobody will ever know.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm talking with Gavin on the phone right now, not that it means much to some people, but he has no power or internet, busted his foot, and knows what's going on.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> HEHEHAHAHA I GOT SCREENS, BITCHES
> 
> We talked to the hacker! we know who he is!
> 
> ...



"Hey look, I'm special because I know shit".

Also, why the fuck is Dragoneer not coming forward and saying anything, rather than leaving it to Sciggles (honourary Admin) and some other guy who I don't know who the fuck he is.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> HEHEHAHAHA I GOT SCREENS, BITCHES
> 
> 
> We talked to the hacker! we know who he is!
> ...



Dude, Ctrl-F5 :v


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> I'm talking with Gavin on the phone right now, not that it means much to some people, but he has no power or internet, busted his foot, and knows what's going on.


tell him that the snow storms have been over for a couple days now



Smelge said:


> "Hey look, I'm special because I know shit".
> 
> Also, why the fuck is Dragoneer not coming forward and saying anything, rather than leaving it to Sciggles (honourary Admin) and some other guy who I don't know who the fuck he is.


Yeah.. I don't get it either.
Why is it that Damaratus [admin] and I don't even think Sciggles is an admin... taking this into their own hands?
Dragoneer always gets mad when people TOTALLY OVER-REACT. GOSH. and spread rumors.. when he isn't looking at the source of the problem.



CinoxFellpyre said:


> Dude, Ctrl-F5 :v


 Ctrl + S
Ctrl + V
Ctrl + C
Ctrl + Z
i know things too


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Clayton said:


> tell him that the snow storms have been over for a couple days now



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57319370/power-outages-plague-conn-for-8th-day/
Clayton, quit being an asshole and do some research for once.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Hey guys I'm on the phone with Gavin too. He tells me that it's all a lie and he was using it as an excuse to get more people on FA so they can watch him unviel the new UI.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Hey guys I'm on the phone with Gavin too. He tells me that it's all a lie and he was using it as an excuse to get more people on FA so they can watch him unviel the new UI.


 Man you're so funny I just about wet myself.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> Man you're so funny I just about wet myself.



You should clean yourself up then :v You'll end up smelling like Mt. Dew.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> You should clean yourself up then :v You'll end up smelling like Mt. Dew.


 But I like Mountain Dew.

/Offtopic


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> But I like Mountain Dew.
> 
> /Offtopic



:c I dun like it, it makes my sperm commit seppuku (ok no more off topic)


----------



## Accountability (Nov 6, 2011)

So let me get this straight...

*Gavin's website starts serving redirects at the same time he is last seen online for days.
*Over a period of days it redirects to Inkbunny, a music video, and finally SoFurry.
*FA staff claim they can't get in contact with Gavin.
*It's believed this is the result of a hack, yet Gavin's FA account continues to be set as administrator (a huge security risk).
*A post is made in Gavin's name on SoFurry that calls out Dragoneer and generally paints a negative picture of FA.
*Suddenly, Gavin can be contacted. 

Oooooooooooooookay then.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> :c I dun like it, it makes my sperm commit seppuku (ok no more off topic now that I've had the last post)



Fair enough.

So it seems this isn't over yet. The drama llama is going to have to start dieting again if this keeps up.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

Accountability said:


> So let me get this straight...
> 
> *Gavin's website starts serving redirects at the same time he is last seen online for days.
> *Over a period of days it redirects to Inkbunny, a music video, and finally SoFurry.
> ...


FA staff claim they can't contact Gavin

Sciggles and Damaratus claim they've already talked to him on the phone


----------



## Xenke (Nov 6, 2011)

If this is indeed something caused by someone outside of Furocity's staff, and without Gavin permission (aka, a "hack"), peraps we should look to people who're trying to benefit from the situation.



insane_kangaroo said:


> If you want someone who knows how to do business like getting the CC processors back, completing a rewrite or any other business relevant task, then feel free to drop me a line. I know people, more so than anyone on this forum, I wouldn't mind working with business acquaintances to work out an agreement to get a auction website and donation pool back on FurAffinity.



O-oh.

I'll wait for more facts though.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

Xenke said:


> If this is indeed something caused by someone outside of Furocity's staff, and without Gavin permission (aka, a "hack"), peraps we should look to people who're trying to benefit from the situation.
> 
> O-oh.



Oh damn. I didn't see that coming xD



Smelge said:


> Or wants to throw her weight around in an argument.



Snigger.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Smelge said:


> Is she fat? Dunno and don't care.
> 
> But I have seen her use her relationship to scare off people she's arguing with. Do what I say, or you will get banned forever.


 Whether she's fat or not I refuse to answer because of exactly what you said in your second sentence. Though I can say if she were to start shit with me I'd kamikaze the bitch all the way to fucking internet hell.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I'd kamikaze the bitch all the way to fucking internet hell.



What does that even mean?


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> Whether she's fat or not I refuse to answer because of exactly what you said in your second sentence. Though I can say if she were to start shit with me I'd kamikaze the bitch all the way to fucking internet hell.


 This is easily the funniest post in the thread, good job.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

Hahaha what the fuck did this thread turn into?


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> What does that even mean?



I'd argue until I either win or get banned.

BTW as soon as someone mentioned that Gavin's FA account being still admin was actually a dangeerous tactic if Gavin was really hacked, he was removed as an admin.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> I'd argue until I either win or get banned.
> 
> BTW as soon as someone mentioned that Gavin's FA account being still admin was actually a dangeerous tactic if Gavin was really hacked, he was removed as an admin.



*@Daemonshyai* ( Administrator )                                                                                                  

Uh.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> *@Daemonshyai* ( Administrator )
> 
> Uh.


Goddammit the internet lied to me again.

*beats the internet with a rustiy iron pipe*


----------



## rodox_video (Nov 6, 2011)

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884312/#cid:22693078:



> Yak
> (No Subject) Posted: November 6th, 2011 06:06 PM
> FA uses secondary authentication for admins, so just by hijacking an admin account you won't have access to 99% of tools.
> Still, you made a good point about locking the account down just to be sure. Thanks.



he fixed something guys holy shit


----------



## Sciggles (Nov 6, 2011)

Smelge said:


> Is she fat? Dunno and don't care.
> 
> But I have seen her use her relationship to scare off people she's arguing with. Do what I say, or you will get banned forever.



I would REALLY like to see proof of this


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

CinoxFellpyre said:


> BTW as soon as someone mentioned that Gavin's FA account being still admin was actually a dangeerous tactic if Gavin was really hacked, he was removed as an admin.


 this sentence,,,
what?



rodox_video said:


> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2884312/#cid:22693078:
> 
> 
> 
> he fixed something guys holy shit



yessss thank you yak
[didnt think id ever say that]


----------



## Armaetus (Nov 6, 2011)

@Scig: Why would it matter? That is not the topic of discussion (on Cinox's claim), it's more on the bullshit between Furocity, Gavin and FurAffinity.

If Gavin really did not make those Sofurry postings, then a very clever troll is impersonating him.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Glaice said:


> @Scig: Why would it matter? That is not the topic of discussion (on Cinox's claim), it's more on the bullshit between Furocity, Gavin and FurAffinity.
> 
> If Gavin really did not make those Sofurry postings, then a very clever troll is impersonating him.


I'm gonna play Devil's advocate and say: Maybe she wants to know where people are getting that?
As much trouble as she has caused before, i've honestly NEVER seen her actively USE her relationship as a means of winning an argument, or getting her way. I mean YES people have been banned by Dragoneer (albeit rightfully) for trolling her, like I said, i've never seen her actively *say* "Neer is my boyfriend i'll get you banned forever!"

Just saying.


----------



## Sciggles (Nov 6, 2011)

Glaice said:


> @Scig: Why would it matter? That is not the topic of discussion (on Cinox's claim), it's more on the bullshit between Furocity, Gavin and FurAffinity.
> 
> If Gavin really did not make those Sofurry postings, then a very clever troll is impersonating him.



I have a right to defend myself when my name is being slandered...


----------



## DW_ (Nov 6, 2011)

Glaice said:


> @Scig: Why would it matter? That is not the topic of discussion (on Cinox's claim), it's more on the bullshit between Furocity, Gavin and FurAffinity.
> 
> If Gavin really did not make those Sofurry postings, *then a very clever troll is impersonating him.*



>trolls
>furry fandom

I think somewhere along the line, some troll is actually smart because most of the fandom is trolls.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

MandertehPander said:


> I'm gonna play Devil's advocate and say: Maybe she wants to know where people are getting that?
> As much trouble as she has caused before, i've honestly NEVER seen her actively USE her relationship as a means of winning an argument, or getting her way. I mean YES people have been banned by Dragoneer (albeit rightfully) for trolling her, like I said, i've never seen her actively *say* "Neer is my boyfriend i'll get you banned forever!"
> 
> Just saying.


People make the assumption that Sciggles has some power, but when we're in the same room, and when we see people actively harassing her, we take action. She's given no better/lower preference than any other user of the site.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> People make the assumption that Sciggles has some power, but when we're in the same room, and when we see people actively harassing her, we take action. She's given no better/lower preference than any other user of the site.



Okay cool. Now about Gavin and everything...


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> People make the assumption that Sciggles has some power, but when we're in the same room, and when we see people actively harassing her, we take action. She's given no better/lower preference than any other user of the site.


 It's going to happen because you two are together, that's the whole thing, and bottom line.


----------



## sandfox (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> People make the assumption that Sciggles has some power, but when we're in the same room, and when we see people actively harassing her, we take action. She's given no better/lower preference than any other user of the site.



uh so whats going on with gavin and the UI and the merger?


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

Indeed, folks.  Get back on topic, which is the status of the merger and all that.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> People make the assumption that Sciggles has some power, but when we're in the same room, and when we see people actively harassing her, we take action. She's given no better/lower preference than any other user of the site.


I can see how that would work, I mean same room very little time inbetween you finding out and her finding out.

I gotta ask though, did ANYTHING come out of the FA + furocity team up?  Or was it just a whole big mess with nothing coming out of it?  And what really did happen with the furocity debacle, I've only recently heard of it.


Sciggles said:


> I have a right to defend myself when my name is being slandered...


You probably wouldn't last too long on this forum then.
As the fifth top most commenter, I've been torn asunder many times, blood in the water will result in a frenzy.

*sorry renard you ninja'd me*


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I gotta ask though, did ANYTHING come out of the FA + furocity team up?  Or was it just a whole big mess with nothing coming out of it?  And what really did happen with the furocity debacle, I've only recently heard of it.


Yes. A lot more admin structure and a complete re-org of the admin side did happen. There were a lot of issues to work out still, but we weren't given that chance to smooth things out longer term given people decided to attack the new admins in their personal lives and go after them.

I won't make excuses - there were problems. We expected that. We could have handled things better on the back end, but things are better now than they were. And are improving.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Okay cool. Now about Gavin and everything...


There's a lot of assumptions going on. I'll wait for Gavin to get online later so he can post and tell it himself.


----------



## Waring Hudsucker (Nov 6, 2011)

Y'know, this conversation went completely off the rails before it even started.Mergers, acquisitions, girlfriends, hardware, money, competent designers, useful coders, sane sysadmins. Nothing has changed in the way that FA operates. Everyone tries to blame something else, and slowly, but surely, people grow disillusioned to the whole thing.This is just more of the same PR bluster. Is any change going to come out of it? No, because the people in charge do not want to actually fix anything. The status quo is fine, yak's 98% patch is "good enough", the site doesn't go down *too* often, and Sean Piche gets his warm fuzzies out of being able to tell himself "I OWN FURAFFINITY AND HAVE CONTROL OVER THE FURRY FANDOM". When anything bad happens, it's all the fault of some troublemaker in the community who we should all now summarily shun.Is it any wonder the Furocity crew bailed? The people who _don't_ bail start from intelligent and conversational people and end up bitter and paranoid, with this deep-set need to keep _everything_ a secret because otherwise "trolls might cause shenanigans".Christ. I broke my 4-month not-posting record to say this: you all _troll yourselves_ by acting like this. You are inventing and/or causing a whole host of social problems where none (need to) exist, and using that to avoid dealing with _actual problems_.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

sandfox said:


> uh so whats going on with gavin and the UI and the merger?


The UI was delayed, and pushed back in favor of some more needed fixes (revising the ticketing system, and more). We're making some major changes to it, and will post some new screenshots when it's ready. For one, the design has changed somewhat since it was last seen. All new seasonal banners (being worked on by Blotch) and a more revised, fluid system which will make things smoother overall.

It's delayed. Badly. No excuses for that on my end. A lot of that is my effing up, and taking too much on my plate. I'm fixing that, and working to delegate more people to take care of issues better.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Yes. A lot more admin structure and a complete re-org of the admin side did happen. There were a lot of issues to work out still, but we weren't given that chance to smooth things out longer term given people decided to attack the new admins in their personal lives and go after them.
> 
> I won't make excuses - there were problems. We expected that. We could have handled things better on the back end, but things are better now than they were. And are improving.


I remember you saying in a thread months ago most of the work as a admin is basically grunt work, like responding to trouble tickets and that, why not promote a couple of the supermoderators to site admins to help with all the trouble tickets to reduce the bulk of the work?


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

Waring Hudsucker said:


> ...Sean Piche gets his warm fuzzies out of being able to tell himself "I OWN FURAFFINITY AND HAVE CONTROL OVER THE FURRY FANDOM". When anything bad happens, it's all the fault of some troublemaker in the community who we should all now summarily shun.


You're an idiot. I'm just going to coem out and say it.

I like running FA, yes, but I, nor anybody else, has control or that much influence over the fandom. I don't enjoy spending tons of time cleaning up after people, I don't enjoy spending time fixing and trying to keep things taped together. Things need to improve, yes. Simple as that. If I wanted to masturbate popularity for the fandom I'd replace Fender and put my face first and foremost on the site.

Some things are broken, yes. Many of them are my fault. I'm not redirecting blame.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I remember you saying in a thread months ago most of the work as a admin is basically grunt work, like responding to trouble tickets and that, why not promote a couple of the supermoderators to site admins to help with all the trouble tickets to reduce the bulk of the work?


Arshes has sent me a list, and exactly that will be happening in the near future (sometimes next week, most likely).


----------



## Waring Hudsucker (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> You're an idiot. I'm just going to coem out and say it.


Professional. I love it.





Dragoneer said:


> I like running FA, yes, but I (don't enjoy doing any of the WORK involved with running FA).


SO FIND SOMEONE WHO DOES. THIS HAS BEEN REPEATED AT YOU REPEATEDLY.





Dragoneer said:


> Things need to improve, yes. Simple as that. If I wanted to masturbate popularity for the fandom I'd replace Fender and put my face first and foremost on the site.


Yes, yes, you have invented this little Fender thing to be an inside-out sockpuppet. We know. It doesn't work very well, because there is no coordination behind the scenes.





Dragoneer said:


> Some things are broken, yes. Many of them are my fault. I'm not redirecting blame.


 You are not accepting it, either. You are PRing past it.


----------



## Fay V (Nov 6, 2011)

This needs to stay on topic, off topic stuff will be deleted. Sorry guys.
Any other off topic stuff may be infracted.


----------



## kayfox (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Some things are broken, yes. Many of them are my fault. I'm not redirecting blame.



I think the main problem is that you spend way too much time on damage control and not enough on getting shit done.

All the people that are not part of your inner circle have seen is promises and promises.   Some of us even offered to help, and were told to go away.  Many of us who have offered to help are not the random PHP programmer or something, but people who are respected in our field.  It would really behoove you to tell us, the public, why its not acceptable to "hire" people like Pi and Verix to fix your shit, or how about Trapa, myself, and whoever else has asked and been ignored.  But enough of that.

What FA lacks is transparency, and really to get these people to shut up you should run the site more transparent, maybe have shit like a blotter and so on.  This does not need to be some esoteric contraption you buy off some company based in Dubai or whatnot.  It could be just some Twitter account.  Your new ticketing system does not have to be some crazy reimplementation of stuff already existing because you think you know better.  You dont.  Its already invented, its called RT.  I think this all really boils down to the fact that you and your crew seem to seek technological solutions to people problems, and as we have seen throughout the history of time, that is often not the right approach.

So really, get with the program, as much as you might hate him, Eevee did have a good idea for Ferrox, and that was to run it in the open.   If your code is so bad it cant risk being in the open, you should not be using it on the Internet.  Its only a matter of time before any security hole, no matter how hard to get at or obscure, gets found and exploited.  You want to have the people finding these issues on your side, and not actively antagonizing them and shuffling them away.  Because if these people got along with you, their more likely to tell you about something, rather than wipe the floor with your site.

And really, if the site was a work of the fandom rather than something a few people wrote, dont you think people would be less abusive of it?


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 6, 2011)

sorry Fay

12 years dungeon! All of you, dungeon! 7 years no trial!


----------



## Accountability (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I like running FA, yes, but I, nor anybody else, has control or that much influence over the fandom. I don't enjoy spending tons of time cleaning up after people, I don't enjoy spending time fixing and trying to keep things taped together. Things need to improve, yes. Simple as that. If I wanted to masturbate popularity for the fandom I'd replace Fender and put my face first and foremost on the site.



I think you're underestimating just how much influence you (and several others) have regarding different aspects of the fandom. Like it or not, it is you who is the face of FurAffinity, and not Fender.


----------



## GingerM (Nov 6, 2011)

Waring Hudsucker said:


> Professional. I love it.
> 
> SO FIND SOMEONE WHO DOES. THIS HAS BEEN REPEATED AT YOU REPEATEDLY.
> 
> ...



So I'm not seeing where you've offered to help Dragoneer, either. There is much that needs to be fixed; everyone including him agrees on that. But you along with quite a few other loud voices seem more interested in beating him and the FA staff over the head with these problems than offering to dig in and help. And no, I haven't offered, either, but I'm also not beating the FA staff up about the issues.


----------



## kayfox (Nov 6, 2011)

GingerM said:


> So I'm not seeing where you've offered to help Dragoneer, either. There is much that needs to be fixed; everyone including him agrees on that. But you along with quite a few other loud voices seem more interested in beating him and the FA staff over the head with these problems than offering to dig in and help. And no, I haven't offered, either, but I'm also not beating the FA staff up about the issues.



I think it would be a good idea not to demand that people who criticize Dragoneer offer to help, we have offered to help and been turned down flat.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 6, 2011)

GingerM said:


> So I'm not seeing where you've offered to help Dragoneer, either. There is much that needs to be fixed; everyone including him agrees on that. But you along with quite a few other loud voices seem more interested in beating him and the FA staff over the head with these problems than offering to dig in and help. And no, I haven't offered, either, but I'm also not beating the FA staff up about the issues.



This person has (and several others have) offered to help repeatedly, and they're disregarded and told they can't help for various reasons, usually having something to do with Yak's paranoia that someone might be a "4chan troll" and use the code to hack the site.

Even people who have sent in their real, actual resume have been turned down.


----------



## rodox_video (Nov 6, 2011)

This has all happened before. And it is going to happen again. Repeatedly and for a number of years.

I think we can ALL agree on that much.


----------



## GingerM (Nov 6, 2011)

kayfox said:


> I think it would be a good idea not to demand that  people who criticize Dragoneer offer to help, we have offered to help  and been turned down flat.





Accountability said:


> This person has (and several others have) offered to help repeatedly, and they're disregarded and told they can't help for various reasons, usually having something to do with Yak's paranoia that someone might be a "4chan troll" and use the code to hack the site.
> 
> Even people who have sent in their real, actual resume have been turned down.



Fair enough; I didn't know that and to those who have offered help, I apologize for painting them with the same brush. I'm curious, though, why this Yak person has control over the code? Is this not Dragoneer's site? Or is it one of those situations where he owns the hardware and Yak owns the software?


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

Not to second-guess the site owner or anything, but please, if you want to discuss Sciggles, make another thread about it and discuss it there.  There's no sense derailing this discussion as soon as the people you've all been calling out have decided to come talk to you about it.


----------



## Waring Hudsucker (Nov 6, 2011)

GingerM said:


> Fair enough; I didn't know that and to those who have offered help, I apologize for painting them with the same brush. I'm curious, though, why this Yak person has control over the code? Is this not Dragoneer's site? Or is it one of those situations where he owns the hardware and Yak owns the software?


 As far as I know, nobody knows. I have completely unfounded suspicions based on me poking at their network a little bit, but yak made it very clear to me that nobody will ever see the code besides him. Needless to say, this is a really insane way of trying to fix the problems with the site.


----------



## rodox_video (Nov 6, 2011)

hey guys how many more pages is this going to go for before it gets locked

 i say 3


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 6, 2011)

Hey Dragoneer if you like running the site, but not the work that comes with it, just do what a ton of businesses and that do-
Have enough people lower on the totem pole that you don't have to do anything.
You'd be surprised how many business owners and that don't actually do anything really while on the clock.


Dragoneer said:


> No, nobody was banned for that journal. They  were banned for violating site rules, and organizing an attack against a  user. When multiple organize an attack against a user, and openly let  us know they're doing it by publicizing it over Twitter, FA and other  websites... well, yeah. It wasn't just me protecting her. They were  outright attacking her, and advertising that they were doing it. We took  action.
> 
> So yes. If you're going to harass somebody, and then post to Twitter and  let that person (and me) know about it... don't cry when you get  banned.


They were posting about organized attacking sciggles on twitter?...
What dumbasses.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 6, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> Not to second-guess the site owner or anything, but please, if you want to discuss Sciggles, make another thread about it and discuss it there.  There's no sense derailing this discussion as soon as the people you've all been calling out have decided to come talk to you about it.


You're right, and I'm done. I've said what I had to say, and if people continue to post and attack her I'll handle them directly.



CannonFodder said:


> They were posting about organized attacking sciggles on twitter?...
> What dumbasses.


Not organizing, but commenting about it to one another. But that's in the past, and I hold no grudge against them.


----------



## CinoxFellpyre (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> No, nobody was banned for that journal. They were banned for violating site rules, and organizing an attack against a user. When multiple organize an attack against a user, and openly let us know they're doing it by publicizing it over Twitter, FA and other websites... well, yeah. It wasn't just me protecting her. They were outright attacking her, and advertising that they were doing it. We took action.
> 
> So yes. If you're going to harass somebody, and then post to Twitter and let that person (and me) know about it... don't cry when you get banned.



Twitter?

I don't have a damn Twitter. I hate Twitter.


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

Okay.  Then I'm deleting all of the posts about this situation.  If people wish to discuss it further, take it to PMs or something.

Edit: Oh, and consider that an official warning.  One more post about this particular topic, and that user gets an infraction.  Now carry on.


----------



## DW_ (Nov 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Arshes has sent me a list, and exactly that will be happening in the near future (sometimes next week, most likely).




Given that I haven't even been here long I doubt this would get anywhere but as I said previously having a special department for enforcing the terms of service is redundant and frankly kind of illogical. Coming from five years of experience here, it's the whole moderation team's job to do that, and I think that caused some of the problems on its own.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 6, 2011)

TheDW said:


> Given that I haven't even been here long I doubt this would get anywhere but as I said previously having a special department for enforcing the terms of service is redundant and frankly kind of illogical. Coming from five years of experience here, it's the whole moderation team's job to do that, and I think that caused some of the problems on its own.


Incase you missed his point he was talking about bringing on more admins, since the furocity merger fell through the floor they probably have to come up with some more admins since a couple of them quit as well.
Fa seems to go through admins fast.


----------



## DW_ (Nov 6, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Incase you missed his point he was talking about bringing on more admins, since the furocity merger fell through the floor they probably have to come up with some more admins since a couple of them quit as well.
> Fa seems to go through admins fast.



I quoted the wrong post.


----------



## Devious Bane (Nov 6, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Fa seems to go through admins fast.


Probably because not one of them seem to do their jobs, let alone do it right.

Though when you cater to a community composed of -cynical shit-, I guess I can show an ounce of sympathy.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

kayfox said:


> Some of us even offered to help, and were told to go away.  Many of us who have offered to help are not the random PHP programmer or something, but people who are respected in our field.



I'm sorry, are you referring to the people in #hackerfurs? FA needs professionals, not hobby/script kiddies/wannabe programmers who haven't had the pleasure of working with thousands of systems being attacked.


----------



## Aden (Nov 6, 2011)

Well that was a fun and rewarding day. Time to relax and check FAF. Hey, I wonder how this thread's been goi-

huh



insane_kangaroo said:


> I'm sorry, are you referring to the people in #hackerfurs? FA needs professionals, not hobby/script kiddies/wannabe programmers who haven't had the pleasure of working with thousands of systems being attacked.



I really wish more people took leaps of faith when others want to help. Not even considering the assistance of an eager volunteer (give 'em a test for competence, compartmentalize for security) is stubborn.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

Aden said:


> I really wish more people took leaps of faith when others want to help. Not even considering the assistance of an eager volunteer (give 'em a test for competence, compartmentalize for security) is stubborn.



I suppose one could test worthy programmers like how I'm tested. Knowing those in the specific group though, they'd fail if I gave them a test to crunch numbers from US's open records regarding spending to find what areas are under budget and need cut backs.

I find the situation humorous when I think of intelligent furry programmers, a certain 13 year old comes to mind because he actually understands how things work. I sort of wish he would be a programmer for FA, at least we'd know the site would progress.


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 6, 2011)

Aden said:
			
		

> Well that was a fun and rewarding day. Time to relax and check FAF. Hey, I wonder how this thread's been goi-


You just lucky I was stuck at home finishing up physics homework.


----------



## Aden (Nov 6, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> I suppose one could test worthy programmers like how I'm tested. Knowing those in the specific group though, they'd fail if I gave them a test to crunch numbers from US's open records regarding spending to find what areas are under budget and need cut backs.
> 
> I find the situation humorous when I think of intelligent furry programmers, a certain 13 year old comes to mind because he actually understands how things work. I sort of wish he would be a programmer for FA, at least we'd know the site would progress.



Honestly, it's not even a question of getting an expert programmer. Syntaxes can be learned and code can be reviewed, but you can't synthesize _enthusiasm_ for a project. That is the single most devastating factor when I look at dead-in-the-water endeavors.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 6, 2011)

Aden said:


> Honestly, it's not even a question of getting an expert programmer. Syntaxes can be learned and code can be reviewed, but you can't synthesize _enthusiasm_ for a project. That is the single most devastating factor when I look at dead-in-the-water endeavors.



Obtaining a programmer who has a background in security with professional experience is quite honestly a must. If not, the end result would be how the current FurAffinity code base looks and how the security track of the code has developed.

Would you really want to go through yet another series of security exploits, possibly leading towards more than just the loss of notes?


----------



## Aden (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> Obtaining a programmer who has a background in security with professional experience is quite honestly a must. If not, the end result would be how the current FurAffinity code base looks and how the security track of the code has developed.
> 
> Would you really want to go through yet another series of security exploits, possibly leading towards more than just the loss of notes?



Hence the review. Testing, testing, testing. There are plenty of people, a certain few I recall in particular, willing to point out security holes.

Just need to get someone with the competence and _motivation_ to fix 'em.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> Would you really want to go through yet another series of security exploits, possibly leading towards more than just the loss of notes?



Because better programming would have stopped someone working out the password for an admin account.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

Aden said:


> Hence the review. Testing, testing, testing. There are plenty of people, a certain few I recall in particular, willing to point out security holes.
> 
> Just need to get someone with the motivation to fix 'em.



Pointing out exploits and/or using fuzzing tools doesn't make a person a good programmer, that makes them a script kiddie.



Smelge said:


> Because better programming would have stopped someone working out the password for an admin account.



Actually, yes. Better programming would've solved the problem by enforcing complexity requirements for administrator accounts. Though I don't expect you to understand, you're not a programmer or a system administrator.


----------



## kayfox (Nov 7, 2011)

Edit: Nevermind, this is kinda a worthless argument to perpetrate.

Edit 2: Please, lets return to discussing the issues at hand, not some d***waving contest.


----------



## Xaerun (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah, alright, so IK is the God King who could lead FA to the promised land, glad everyone* agrees.
Let's look more at the FA/Furocity relationship / Furocity developments / FA ?changes etc and less at how we just won't give such a brilliant guy a chance, okay?


*EDIT*

Go take a look at my profile page and tell me how much I care
VVVVV


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

Xaerun said:


> Yeah, alright, so IK is the God King who could lead FA to the promised land, glad everyone* agrees.
> Let's look more at the FA/Furocity relationship / Furocity developments / FA ?changes etc and less at how we just won't give such a brilliant guy a chance, okay?



Quite honestly, I'd like to work on an auction section for FA. Creating the main codebase for FA is childs play.

Also, go take a look at my profile page and tell me what it says under, 'Artist type:'


----------



## Fay V (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> Quite honestly, I'd like to work on an auction section for FA. Creating the main codebase for FA is childs play.
> 
> Also, go take a look at my profile page and tell me what it says under, 'Artist type:'


IK if you want to talk about programming make your own thread. We are talking about FA and furocity business here.


----------



## Pinkuh (Nov 7, 2011)

Smelge said:


> Because better programming would have stopped someone working out the password for an admin account.



Not really. Those passwords were gotten outside of FA. 

Someone's E-mail got compromised. That E-mail was attached to their FA account. Same passwords... everything. So while it is entertaining to think that someone sat there and niggled on FA's code to try and get the passwords, the reality is, the person who's account got compromised wasn't practicing safe security. This is a case you are wrong in saying "Better Programing" and instead should be saying "Better security Practices" Which have since been implimented


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

Pinkuh said:


> Someone's E-mail got compromised. That E-mail was attached to their FA account. Same passwords...



RSA SecureID tokens, they solve ignorance and stupidity. The software only cost 3k, and the tokens 20USD a piece(given negotiating skills).


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> The software only cost 3k



Donations time!


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> RSA SecureID tokens, they solve ignorance and stupidity. The software only cost 3k, and the tokens 20USD a piece(given negotiating skills).



Because I'm sure FA has 3,000 dollars lying around for something that can be prevented through the magical free method of common sense.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

Ben said:


> Because I'm sure FA has 3,000 dollars lying around for something that can be prevented through the magical free method of common sense.



You make it sound like FA doesn't have a history of spending four digit sums on pointless shit and upgrades.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Donations time!


 
Neer can pay for it, he has money.



Ben said:


> Because I'm sure FA has 3,000 dollars lying around for something that can be prevented through the magical free method of common sense.



See above.



Sai_Wolf said:


> You make it sound like FA doesn't have a history of spending four digit sums on pointless shit and upgrades.



This


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 7, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> You make it sound like FA doesn't have a history of spending four digit sums on pointless shit and upgrades.



That's an obtuse way of thinking.

I buy a $35,000 car before, I should be able to buy them again at any time!

If economical situations allowed someone to spend that kind of money before, it does not equate to always having that money.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 7, 2011)

Pinkuh said:


> Not really. Those passwords were gotten outside of FA.
> 
> Someone's E-mail got compromised. That E-mail was attached to their FA account. Same passwords... everything. So while it is entertaining to think that someone sat there and niggled on FA's code to try and get the passwords, the reality is, the person who's account got compromised wasn't practicing safe security. This is a case you are wrong in saying "Better Programing" and instead should be saying "Better security Practices" Which have since been implimented



Good job detecting sarcasm there.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> That's an obtuse way of thinking.
> 
> I buy a $35,000 car before, I should be able to buy them again at any time!
> 
> If economical situations allowed someone to spend that kind of money before, it does not equate to always having that money.



What are you going on about? It's been well established that Neer throws money at any and every issue regarding FA's performance. Why take a gander at FA's code and see if we can't improve storage efficiency, when we can just get a new server! 

Pi and co at Vivisector have detailed Neer's tendencies with money for quite some time.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

Pinkuh said:


> Someone's E-mail got compromised. That E-mail was attached to their FA account. Same passwords... everything.



Thought about this, the passwords could've been brute forced via email accounts, but the end result would've been that password complexities via programming would HAVE solve the problem!

There are existing programs out there to attack email addresses using dictionary lists and even brute forcing the address. If the passwords weren't hard to guess via dictionary(even with a number or two since people are PREDICTABLE), then that's where password complexities come in.

Every password I have is 16 alphanumeric with symbols min, passwords complexity standards call for at least 8 with a number(which I also include a symbol complexity), also disabling the forgotten password for admin, since that's just asking for it.

So YES! Proper programming WOULD HAVE solved the problem in such a case.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> Thought about this, the passwords could've been brute forced via email accounts, but the end result would've been that password complexities via programming would HAVE solve the problem!
> 
> There are existing programs out there to attack email addresses using dictionary lists and even brute forcing the address. If the passwords weren't hard to guess via dictionary(even with a number or two since people are PREDICTABLE), then that's where password complexities come in.
> 
> ...



Just a suggestion. You might make your point a bit more credible, if you tucked your dick into your pants and ceased with waving it around. We get it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 7, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> What are you going on about? It's been well established that Neer throws money at any and every issue regarding FA's performance. Why take a gander at FA's code and see if we can't improve storage efficiency, when we can just get a new server!
> 
> Pi and co at Vivisector have detailed Neer's tendencies with money for quite some time.



You're not even making a valid argument. You're being obtuse about the matter. Especially since you didn't read what I said that your thinking doesn't matter. You made the argument about someone spending money, but just because someone spent frivolously in your opinion at that time, doesn't equate to doing it FOR EVERYTHING.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 7, 2011)

insane_kangaroo said:


> Thought about this, the passwords could've been brute forced via email accounts, but the end result would've been that password complexities via programming would HAVE solve the problem!
> .



....and they were likely NOT brute forced. You're trying to create a scenario that didn't exist. Sorry.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> Just a suggestion. You might make your point a bit more credible, if you tucked your dick into your pants and ceased with waving it around. We get it.



If you see my post in a negative manner, it only shows you're passive aggressive and to which someone else is smarter than you is saying how procedures should've worked except they were not set up in such a fashion.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Nov 7, 2011)

IK: if the admin would have had the common sense to set a 8-16 character passwors, no additional coding would have been required.This is why we get a security lecture, when we're brought on the team: no similar PW's, no easy to guess stuff, numbers, letters, and other characters, etc, etc, etc.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> ....and they were likely NOT brute forced. You're trying to create a scenario that didn't exist. Sorry.



"were likely NOT"

You're not a person involved in security, please refrain from giving your unprofessional opinion.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> You're not even making a valid argument. You're being obtuse about the matter. Especially since you didn't read what I said that your thinking doesn't matter. You made the argument about someone spending money, but just because someone spent frivolously in your opinion at that time, doesn't equate to doing it FOR EVERYTHING.



Let's just both agree to disagree. I can see this going absolutely nowhere fast.

At any rate, why would someone go through all that trouble 'trolling' Gavin's account? When you look at the timeline of events, it doesn't add up. Combine that with the lack of proof on Sciggles and Damartus' side, I find myself leaning toward the "It's genuine" camp.

EDIT: Furocity's now redirecting to Gavin's SF post about the redirect. He DID enable the subdomains again, so users could get at their stuff, so that might explain why some could load the mainsite.


----------



## insane_kangaroo (Nov 7, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> IK: if the admin would have had the common sense to set a 8-16 character passwors, no additional coding would have been required.This is why we get a security lecture, when we're brought on the team: no similar PW's, no easy to guess stuff, numbers, letters, and other characters, etc, etc, etc.



You can lecture to users all you want, but the end result is you need proper procedures set up to make sure guidelines are followed. I can lecture users until I'm blue in the face, they're still going to try hiding passwords written on sticky notes around their office.


----------



## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2011)

Stop talking about password security and programming in this thread.  Keep it on topic.

Edit: The poster above me is one of the offenders.


----------



## Draconas (Nov 7, 2011)

Question: Why the hell did this turn into security bitching all of a sudden? I don't see how it relates to the FA and Furocity thing at all.

Edit: ninja'd


----------



## kayfox (Nov 7, 2011)

Draconas said:


> Question: Why the hell did this turn into security bitching all of a sudden? I don't see how it relates to the FA and Furocity thing at all.



Seems to be some sort of dickwaving contest.  My guess is IK recently got some sort of paper he thinks makes him qualified to beat down on everyone else over security matters.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 7, 2011)

And he's banned now sadly. but it doesn't mater cause there is really not much hope for this thread anymore.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> And he's banned now sadly. but it doesn't mater cause there is really not much hope for this thread anymore.



There really wasn't much hope for this thread past page #1, to be frank with you.

On one hand, you have users genuinely concerned. On another, you have in the dark moderators trying to maintain order and keep the status quo (Not speaking out against the administration, etc.) and yet on another hand, you have those who shake their heads and go "Not this shit again." or "Same old shit all over again."

And yet, we'll just all dust this under the carpet in a few months; never to be spoken of again.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 7, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> And he's banned now sadly. but it doesn't mater cause there is really not much hope for this thread anymore.



I hope that all the petty behavior goes away. It's a big hope, but I do want to see this site take on programmers and improve. Not every person who has offered help has some bad agenda. I know some of the criticism is the fun part of "Monday Morning Quarterbacking/Commentary" that some regulars engage in, to feel they matter more.

However, there is a lot of valid criticism towards the site. Any site leader should learn to take it with a grain of salt and learn to weight the good with the bad. You have to make deadlines and schedule what you want done, in an organized fashion. You also have to learn when to truly delegate responsibilities or share them. 

Just my thoughts anyways...


----------



## Bobskunk (Nov 7, 2011)

Waring Hudsucker said:


> Y'know, this conversation went completely off the rails before it even started.Mergers, acquisitions, girlfriends, hardware, money, competent designers, useful coders, sane sysadmins. Nothing has changed in the way that FA operates. Everyone tries to blame something else, and slowly, but surely, people grow disillusioned to the whole thing.This is just more of the same PR bluster. Is any change going to come out of it? No, because the people in charge do not want to actually fix anything. The status quo is fine, yak's 98% patch is "good enough", the site doesn't go down *too* often, and Sean Piche gets his warm fuzzies out of being able to tell himself "I OWN FURAFFINITY AND HAVE CONTROL OVER THE FURRY FANDOM". When anything bad happens, it's all the fault of some troublemaker in the community who we should all now summarily shun.Is it any wonder the Furocity crew bailed? The people who _don't_ bail start from intelligent and conversational people and end up bitter and paranoid, with this deep-set need to keep _everything_ a secret because otherwise "trolls might cause shenanigans".Christ. I broke my 4-month not-posting record to say this: you all _troll yourselves_ by acting like this. You are inventing and/or causing a whole host of social problems where none (need to) exist, and using that to avoid dealing with _actual problems_.


 
Say, buddy, who's the most liquid businessman on the street?  You are!

When is a sidewalk fully dressed?  _Also you!_

You get it, buddy? It's a pun, it's a knee-slapper, it's a play on- Jesus, Joseph, and Mary! Is that a Red Infraction? Christ Almighty, why didn't you tell a guy!


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I hope that all the petty behavior goes away. It's a big hope, but I do want to see this site take on programmers and improve.



That's a noble ambition, and I totally agree with you. I don't hate FA, really. But what you speak of will not happen with the current administration. You guys need a fresh change in that department.




Arshes Nei said:


> Not every person who has offered help has some bad agenda. I know some of the criticism is the fun part of "Monday Morning Quarterbacking/Commentary" that some regulars engage in, to feel they matter more.
> 
> However, there is a lot of valid criticism towards the site. Any site leader should learn to take it with a grain of salt and learn to weight the good with the bad. You have to make deadlines and schedule what you want done, in an organized fashion. You also have to learn when to truly delegate responsibilities or share them.
> 
> Just my thoughts anyways...



This has always confused me. I know that Yak and co. know that FA needs a site recode. Gavin was brought on for the UI recode, and yet, nothing has come of it. A year's worth of planning and three months of attempted 'do-ing' have yielded six Furocity admins stepping down and one (potentially) disgruntled Furocity site owner.

There's something wrong with this picture, I think we can all get behind that.


----------



## Kihari (Nov 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I hope that all the petty behavior goes away. It's a big hope, but I do want to see this site take on programmers and improve. Not every person who has offered help has some bad agenda... there is a lot of valid criticism towards the site. Any site leader should learn to take it with a grain of salt and learn to weight the good with the bad. You have to make deadlines and schedule what you want done, in an organized fashion. You also have to learn when to truly delegate responsibilities or share them.


 
I see you and other staff members coming out and saying things like this on occasion, and it makes me wish you lot were in a position to say _we're going to do this now_ or _okay, clearly this isn't working, so let's do things a different way_, and actually make it happen. It's a shame really; all these good minds could be helping take the mainsite in a better direction, and you wouldn't even need to seek help from potential evil hacker trolls folks outside the circle.



Sai_Wolf said:


> A year's worth of planning



I keep hoping someone will explain how it took a _year_ to plan this arrangement, but alas, I just have to assume I'm missing something there.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 7, 2011)

Kihari said:


> I keep hoping someone will explain how it took a _year_ to plan this arrangement, but alas, I just have to assume I'm missing something there.



5 minutes of actual work, a year to confirm it by e-mail.


----------



## Bobskunk (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah, even I was surprised at that announcement.  "Here's a thing that's been a year in the making!  We're merging!"  "Wait, merging?  What?"  "Oh, uh, not merging but joining forces!  Staff-wise!"  "Okay, so what does this mean for us?  What's changing?  What is everyone getting out of the deal?"  "Uh, we don't have all the details, we'll get back to you on that."

That's what the thread was like.  A year to work out the details, only to not have any details to offer?  Goodness gracious.

I'd talked to Dragoneer at AC last year and he said there was a big move in the works that he was excited about and that he couldn't tell me a thing about it.  Granted, I can understand not telling an FA outsider about some secret plan, let alone me of all people, but it turns out in the end that this plan was basically kept secret from staff too.  What purpose did that serve?  Why?  More executive privilege and state secrets stuff?  Worried that if someone on staff knew about it, it would leak to the unwashed masses?  At some point, paranoia about things getting out has to be balanced with actually keeping staff informed so whatever plans are being made can actually be made effective.  Yet, here we are, all the problems are being publicly acknowledged and that we're going forward to move past it and things are being done.  Handwaving and PR'ing all the problems away...  It's an awful pattern.

The "liking running FA, not liking the work FA requires" line is pretty telling.  I really, really don't hate you, Dragoneer, despite my often yet hopefully not-overbearing-and-unreasonable criticism, but there are a lot of problems at work here and I don't think you're the one who can solve them.  It's like that.


----------



## Kihari (Nov 7, 2011)

Bobskunk said:


> I'd talked to Dragoneer at AC last year and he said there was a big move in the works that he was excited about and that he couldn't tell me a thing about it.  Granted, I can understand not telling an FA outsider about some secret plan, let alone me of all people, but it turns out in the end that this plan was basically kept secret from staff too.



I think this begs the question of why *impending progress is kept a secret* on the occasion that it does happen. Sure, you may not want to give out _too_ fine of details out of respect for others involved--and you might not even _know_ all the details at a given point in time--but acting that way about this only to have it turn out like it did just makes the whole thing look like a big goddamn joke.

Could it be a fear of criticism? We ought to hope every day that people care enough to tell us what we're doing wrong and how it could be done better.


----------



## Corto (Nov 7, 2011)

Nah, I don't think you should go announcing shit left and right unless there's some headway already made. Otherwise you risk provoking people with no reason at all. Which is basically what happens here always so seeing some criticism of the contrary is actually hillarious.
Not telling your staff is bananas though.


So, besides the SF post and phone calls, any other news from Gavin? Some declaration or something?


----------



## Oasus (Nov 7, 2011)

Bobskunk said:


> Yeah, even I was surprised at that announcement.  "Here's a thing that's been a year in the making!  We're merging!"  "Wait, merging?  What?"  "Oh, uh, not merging but joining forces!  Staff-wise!"  "Okay, so what does this mean for us?  What's changing?  What is everyone getting out of the deal?"  "Uh, we don't have all the details, we'll get back to you on that."
> 
> That's what the thread was like.  A year to work out the details, only to not have any details to offer?  Goodness gracious.
> 
> ...



My guess is that he was afraid that if he told anyone on staff, that if they left, they would use that information to cause a panic.  But in doing what he did, he kinda made the situation worse.  That's my perspective.   I do think neer means well, but sometimes the decisions he makes are questionable.



Corto said:


> Nah, I don't think you should go announcing shit left and right unless there's some headway already made. Otherwise you risk provoking people with no reason at all. Which is basically what happens here always so seeing some criticism of the contrary is actually hillarious.
> Not telling your staff is bananas though.
> 
> 
> So, besides the SF post and phone calls, any other news from Gavin? Some declaration or something?



I've seen no updates from Gavin yet.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 7, 2011)

Kihari said:


> I think this begs the question of why *impending progress is kept a secret* on the occasion that it does happen. Sure, you may not want to give out _too_ fine of details out of respect for others involved--and you might not even _know_ all the details at a given point in time--but acting that way about this only to have it turn out like it did just makes the whole thing look like a big goddamn joke.
> 
> Could it be a fear of criticism? We ought to hope every day that people care enough to tell us what we're doing wrong and how it could be done better.



Although Dragoneer probably could have talked about it _before_ it was announced, there really was no need to, and seeing how poorly the announcement was made, discussing it probably would have ended badly.


----------



## ali (Nov 7, 2011)

there are no updates from gavin as of yet, but there was a journal made on sofurry that's now been deleted. furocity still links to that dead post now.

just have to wait for gavin to come forth? it's disturbing how furoc was left up for people to get their things from 'gavin' on sofurry but yeah all that's been taken into question.


----------



## MandertehPander (Nov 7, 2011)

Corto said:


> Nah, I don't think you should go announcing shit left and right unless there's some headway already made. Otherwise you risk provoking people with no reason at all. Which is basically what happens here always so seeing some criticism of the contrary is actually hillarious.
> Not telling your staff is bananas though.
> 
> 
> So, besides the SF post and phone calls, any other news from Gavin? Some declaration or something?


 I've been texting Gavin back and forth all day. He still has no internet, but he has power now.


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm really confused about one thing. This whole time, I was under the impression that Gavin had been brought into the Furaffinity fold to help design the new UI, since he designed Furocity himself and whatnot. However, I saw Dragoneer left a comment on the journal before it was deleted, saying that Gavin _*wasn't*_ brought on to code the new UI.

Which begs the essential question:

Who _is_ coding it?

I would have screencapped this, but apparently, having the journal in my back history doesn't help anything. Oops.


----------



## Sai_Wolf (Nov 7, 2011)

Ben said:


> I'm really confused about one thing. This whole time, I was under the impression that Gavin had been brought into the Furaffinity fold to help design the new UI, since he designed Furocity himself and whatnot. However, I saw Dragoneer left a comment on the journal before it was deleted, saying that Gavin _*wasn't*_ brought on to code the new UI.
> 
> Which begs the essential question:
> 
> ...



You're not alone. I saw it too.


----------



## ali (Nov 7, 2011)

because i screencapped the entire thing, here is the section about the UI and the DNS and what have you: http://i42.tinypic.com/14u8ehu.jpg


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2011)

ali said:


> because i screencapped the entire thing, here is the section about the UI and the DNS and what have you: http://i42.tinypic.com/14u8ehu.jpg



Ahhh, thank you. I mean, I'd like to think I'm a reputable source of information, but the screencap no doubt helps.


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 7, 2011)

ali said:


> because i screencapped the entire thing, here is the section about the UI and the DNS and what have you: http://i42.tinypic.com/14u8ehu.jpg


Great to see Aurali has no fucking clue what's going on as per usual


----------



## ali (Nov 7, 2011)

aurali?... lmao what... i'm not.. what. ok.

edit: to stay on track, you're welcome ben! if you need the rest of the screencaps i can provide.


----------



## Yoshiya (Nov 7, 2011)

ali said:


> aurali?... lmao what... i'm not.. what. ok.


Not you ali, one of the comments. We're cool bro.


----------



## ali (Nov 7, 2011)

Yoshiya said:


> Not you ali, one of the comments. We're cool bro.



aah, okay, i thought you were mistaking me for someone else! phew.


----------



## Temrin (Nov 7, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> All new seasonal banners (being worked on by Blotch)



Does this mean were not going to have user created banners anymore?


----------



## Trpdwarf (Nov 8, 2011)

Temrin said:


> Does this mean were not going to have user created banners anymore?



Ninja edit, I'm asking someone right now to clarify so I can answer it for you.

Alright what I am told is that we are redesigning the banner system to be more dynamic.  Eventually, we'll open it up to users to submit ideas and have an  official way to submit banners to the site. Users will be able to select  banners from our archive, or stick to the seasonal banners. I hope this clarifies it for you.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 8, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> Ninja edit, I'm asking someone right now to clarify so I can answer it for you.
> 
> Alright what I am told is that we are redesigning the banner system to be more dynamic.  Eventually, we'll open it up to users to submit ideas and have an  official way to submit banners to the site. Users will be able to select  banners from our archive, or stick to the seasonal banners. I hope this clarifies it for you.



Will us boring folk be able to just choose a plain logo?

It would be greatly appreciated.

Also I really hope time isn't currently being spent on developing what is essentially the most pointless feature a site could have.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Nov 8, 2011)

Accountability said:


> Will us boring folk be able to just choose a plain logo?
> 
> It would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Also I really hope time isn't currently being spent on developing what is essentially the most pointless feature a site could have.


 I don't know the extent of what you can do(not really my area). I can toss the idea up because it makes sense to be able to choose a static generic banner for those who want it. Of course it's not going to be what is being worked on exclusively right now or something. It's just one of those things that will be with the new lay out and stuff. One part of a whole if that makes sense. Priorities > over pretty features


----------



## Gavrill (Nov 8, 2011)

Yoshiya said:


> Great to see Aurali has no fucking clue what's going on as per usual


of course she doesn't, she was getting info via me and i am not a reliable source. honestly she's just poking the hornet's nest, not really puttting forth the effort to harass 'neer as per usual.

yup


----------



## Devious Bane (Nov 8, 2011)

Temrin said:


> Does this mean were not going to have user created banners anymore?


It's pretty much _pick and choose_, always has been.
This is why generally this time of year results in assloads of drama in regards to the banners.


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 8, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> It's pretty much _pick and choose_, always has been.
> This is why generally this time of year results in assloads of drama in regards to the banners.


*awaits the Thanksgiving Banner* OH Boy


----------



## M. LeRenard (Nov 8, 2011)

Accountability said:


> Will us boring folk be able to just choose a plain logo?


Wow... that's actually a really great idea.  Mainly because it'll cut down on the bullshit every month when people come here in droves to whine about the banner content.  I fully support this.


----------



## CannonFodder (Nov 8, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> Wow... that's actually a really great idea.  Mainly because it'll cut down on the bullshit every month when people come here in droves to whine about the banner content.  I fully support this.


If this is implemented we wouldn't have to deal with drama like the thanksgiving day banner or the brony banner.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 8, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> Wow... that's actually a really great idea.  Mainly because it'll cut down on the bullshit every month when people come here in droves to whine about the banner content.  I fully support this.



I've been asking for a logo for this site for years now :/
There's no reason for the rotating stuff when the site should have an identity with it.
I mean we all know what the google logo looks like even if people do their own designs or illustrations for it.

Why can't FA just do the same.


----------



## Xenke (Nov 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I've been asking for a logo for this site for years now :/
> There's no reason for the rotating stuff when the site should have an identity with it.
> I mean we all know what the google logo looks like even if people do their own designs or illustrations for it.
> 
> Why can't FA just do the same.



Because FA has the same desire to change it visible identity absurdly often just like myself. :V


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 8, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> *awaits the Thanksgiving Banner* OH Boy



Also awaits the theme considering it will either involve a Fat Fender or Rednef and what thanksgiving food theme.

Though for the Christmas banner........


----------



## Verin Asper (Nov 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I've been asking for a logo for this site for years now :/
> There's no reason for the rotating stuff when the site should have an identity with it.
> I mean we all know what the google logo looks like even if people do their own designs or illustrations for it.
> 
> Why can't FA just do the same.


how else can you stroke the ego of the small group of artist who often keep on appearing for doing the banner :V


----------



## Draconas (Nov 9, 2011)

Know what I'd vote for (hintity hint hint: fatty thanksgiving)


----------



## OssumPawesome (Nov 9, 2011)

Draconas said:


> Know what I'd vote for (hintity hint hint: fatty thanksgiving)



Thanks for the update.


----------



## Devious Bane (Nov 9, 2011)

This is why members have no say in what banner gets used.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 9, 2011)

I would have hoped it would be family related thanskgiving. Considering i remember one year how much drama there was over the thanksgiving banner.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 9, 2011)

im going to submit a banner in which the wolves of fa are ripping apart thanksgiving fender for dinner

like nature intended


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Nov 9, 2011)

Clayton said:


> im going to submit a banner in which the wolves of fa are ripping apart thanksgiving fender for dinner
> 
> like nature intended



Real wolves or Sparkle wolves?


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 9, 2011)

RTDragon said:


> I would have hoped it would be family related thanskgiving. Considering i remember one year how much drama there was over the thanksgiving banner.


There will not be a Thanksgiving banner this year.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 9, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> There will not be a Thanksgiving banner this year.



YYYYYYES


----------



## Ben (Nov 9, 2011)

Has all this really been going on for a week now though, with Furocity being gone? This whole situation is just the strangest thing, I swear.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 9, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> There will not be a Thanksgiving banner this year.



Though what going to happen for the Christmas banner considering mostly likely there's going to be a war over it.


----------



## Accountability (Nov 9, 2011)

Love how this thread has gone from talking about the merger, to the admins leaving, to the Furocity redirects, to Sciggles (wut), then back to the merger, and now about banners.

So is Gavin still without internet? Can't he like, go to the library, or work, or a friend's house, or send Dragoneer or Dax or Yak or Net-cat the information to log in and fix this all? Is this partnership totally one way?


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

Accountability said:


> So is Gavin still without internet? Can't he like, go to the library, or work, or a friend's house, or send Dragoneer or Dax or Yak or Net-cat the information to log in and fix this all? Is this partnership totally one way?



this is EXACTLY what i've been asking for about 3 journals, the sofurry journal and just general discussion. where the fuck is gavin in all of this? now it's just ridiculous. it was understandable with the storm and all but everyone's likely got their shit together now. sure is a lot of concern about his site being compromised!


----------



## Xaerun (Nov 9, 2011)

ali said:


> this is EXACTLY what i've been asking for about 3 journals, the sofurry journal and just general discussion. where the fuck is gavin in all of this? now it's just ridiculous. it was understandable with the storm and all but everyone's likely got their shit together now. sure is a lot of concern about his site being compromised!


I guess people forgot to monitor your journals?


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

Xaerun said:


> I guess people forgot to monitor your journals?



oh, they get plenty of response and dragoneers seen the sofurry journal post made by the 'fake' gavin which i made the same type of comment on but got no response. no one's really giving anyone any answers about it. the only thing about contact is 'we're talking to him on the phone, he has no internet and it's not him posting.' you'd think he'd have more to say about it, like.. a plan on how to fix the issue? myself and a friend have made several journals, hers got the most buzz thanks to lulz, mine just are a follow up on the events so far. still, you'd think there'd be more to say on the matter from gavin if they are talking to him on the phone. don't us furocity users deserve to know?


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Nov 9, 2011)

ali said:


> oh, they get plenty of response and dragoneers seen the sofurry journal post made by the 'fake' gavin which i made the same type of comment on but got no response. no one's really giving anyone any answers about it. the only thing about contact is 'we're talking to him on the phone, he has no internet and it's not him posting.' you'd think he'd have more to say about it, like.. a plan on how to fix the issue? myself and a friend have made several journals, hers got the most buzz thanks to lulz, mine just are a follow up on the events so far. still, you'd think there'd be more to say on the matter from gavin if they are talking to him on the phone. don't us furocity users deserve to know?



God forbid you have to wait for an answer.

Are they not allowed to spend time doing other things than website related business? I realize it's been a few days now, but in my opinion, the websites should not be top-priority. If they have real life business to take care of, I believe that the website issues can be post-poned for a few days.

If it's several weeks before we get a reply, then I could see frustration. But really, it's only been a few days.


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

Tiger In A Tie said:


> God forbid you have to wait for an answer.
> 
> Are they not allowed to spend time doing other things than website related business? I realize it's been a few days now, but in my opinion, the websites should not be top-priority. If they have real life business to take care of, I believe that the website issues can be post-poned for a few days.
> 
> If it's several weeks before we get a reply, then I could see frustration. But really, it's only been a few days.



god forbid they try and tell anyone anything at all is my point. while it's been taken into consideration that people logging into furocity could have been a security risk (yes, we were told this HOURS after the post on sofurry was made, therefore many users were logging on and getting their shit), the staff refuse to try and tell anyone about it. they are being ignorant about it. i would not mind if this were being handled appropriately, but it's not. instead of an announcement, users themselves are finding out through fd2 and our journals.

the wait is the issue, because it's someone in control over furocity with our information in their hands, understand? we don't even know how much they can get into the system, but they can reopen and close the site off to users and redirect it. i'm not technsavvy but that seems like they have a good portion under their control. in case you can't understand that bit.

if furaffinity were hacked you'd all be jumping off the walls and shitting yourselves, let's try to make a comparison since you're not a furocity user but making a related comment will help you with understanding the situation better.

a hack is serious, and they don't even tell us anything about it, how should we feel about this? i comment on behalf of myself and my friends who are furocity users who only want answers, don't give me attitude when i'm only looking for that.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 9, 2011)

When Gavin is ready to address it, he's ready to address it. Not because you made 3 journals. You need to take that fight up with him, not us.


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

i don't expect him to come to me because of my 3 journals and i never implied that. simply because i wanted to point out that for the past few days i've been keeping people updated and a lot of people have the same questions i do. apparently i sounded like a bigot in stating that but no, not really.

i would take it up with him, but, you know, he's unreachable to his users. and that's why someone who can contact him should be on top of it so everyone's aware. oh look, we're back to the first point of why i said what i did in the first place! fancy that.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 9, 2011)

Then you need to take it up with him, and not with us that he's been unreachable. 

Anymore that I care that Angelo/Spyed was not responding to your journals on DA  Or Admins on SoFurry didn't respond to you, Hentai Foundry doesn't care, or some issue you have with InkBunny....

...and so on, and so on...


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Then you need to take it up with him, and not with us that he's been unreachable.
> 
> Anymore that I care that Angelo/Spyed was not responding to your journals on DA  Or Admins on SoFurry didn't respond to you, Hentai Foundry doesn't care, or some issue you have with InkBunny....
> 
> ...and so on, and so on...



gee whiz, why on earth would i ever try and mention it in a thread that is asking about it?

my bad.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 9, 2011)

ali said:


> gee whiz, why on earth would i ever try and mention it in a thread that is asking about it?
> 
> my bad.



There's a difference between mentioning it and demanding an answer on another forum. Think about that and wonder if this is a fight you want to have on THIS forum.


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> There's a difference between mentioning it and demanding an answer on another forum. Think about that and wonder if this is a fight you want to have on THIS forum.



i did mention it, and i mentioned i want answers. i'm not asking any of_ you_ for them, there's a difference in that too.

fighting? i don't see any fighting. but okay then.


----------



## GingerM (Nov 9, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> There will not be a Thanksgiving banner this year.



NOOOOOOO!!!!!



ali said:


> god forbid they try and tell anyone anything at all is my point. while it's been taken into consideration that people logging into furocity could have been a security risk (yes, we were told this HOURS after the post on sofurry was made, therefore many users were logging on and getting their shit), the staff refuse to try and tell anyone about it. they are being ignorant about it. i would not mind if this were being handled appropriately, but it's not. instead of an announcement, users themselves are finding out through fd2 and our journals.
> 
> the wait is the issue, because it's someone in control over furocity with our information in their hands, understand? we don't even know how much they can get into the system, but they can reopen and close the site off to users and redirect it. i'm not technsavvy but that seems like they have a good portion under their control. in case you can't understand that bit.



You seem to be assuming that getting Furocity back on its feet is their first concern. Since I don't know exactly where Gavin is located - and I'm not asking - I don't know for certain, but it's entirely possible more basic issues such as shelter, family, food, power, etc. are first in his mind right now. Other mods may not have the access necessary to fix the problem.



ali said:


> if furaffinity were hacked you'd all be jumping off the walls and shitting yourselves, let's try to make a comparison since you're not a furocity user but making a related comment will help you with understanding the situation better.
> 
> a hack is serious, and they don't even tell us anything about it, how should we feel about this? i comment on behalf of myself and my friends who are furocity users who only want answers, don't give me attitude when i'm only looking for that.



No, not really. A furry-art website ranks pretty far down on my list of priorities. Hacks can be serious to the site owners, but again, no-one's about to die of exposure, thirst or hunger for lack of Furocity. How should you feel about it? I recommend sitting back, relaxing and going to look at any one of several other furry art websites for now. As Tiger In A Tie said, they'll be back up, and if it turns into being weeks, then it's time to show some concern.

As a closing note, if you don't want attitude, then I strongly recommend you not to bring your own. "god forbid they try and tell anyone anything" is definitely attitude, one of entitlement.


----------



## ali (Nov 9, 2011)

GingerM said:


> NOOOOOOO!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i guess you failed to notice i only used god forbid because someone else said it. you also failed to notice they could get private information out of a site which i deem serious. but whatev floats your boat broseph.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 9, 2011)

ali, stop.

You're really not making yourself look good. I already told you to stop with the bickering.


----------



## Devious Bane (Nov 10, 2011)

Learn to capitalize letters while you're at it.
And it's spelled "Whatever", illiterate child.


----------



## Temrin (Nov 10, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> Ninja edit, I'm asking someone right now to clarify so I can answer it for you.
> 
> Alright what I am told is that we are redesigning the banner system to be more dynamic.  Eventually, we'll open it up to users to submit ideas and have an  official way to submit banners to the site. Users will be able to select  banners from our archive, or stick to the seasonal banners. I hope this clarifies it for you.



Hmm, interesting. I'll have to see how that goes. Thank you for the info


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Nov 16, 2011)

How did none of this make it onto Dragoneer's 'State of FA' journal?


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 16, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> How did none of this make it onto Dragoneer's 'State of FA' journal?



What journal? :V


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 16, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> What journal? :V



This journal. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2910879/


----------



## Corto (Nov 16, 2011)

To be honest I don't see a single thing concerning FA (news wise) in that journal, just Neer saying he'll stop selling art and will mostly focus on the site. Not exactly a state of the union. Just a personal journal.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm with Corto here, it's not a blind defense of Neer or the journal - I'm neutral towards it.

However, I don't consider the journal to be "NEWS" where one can post site matters on the forum or make it an official statement via admin notice.

To be more clear, I kinda dismiss a personal journal as the most proper channel for NEWS concerning the site unless it's stated to be the news through the administrator notice. That's not to say important events can't be discussed there or weighed in, but I take it as something like a "journalist blog" on yahoo news vs a proper newswire channel if that makes sense.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 16, 2011)

Corto said:


> To be honest I don't see a single thing concerning FA (news wise) in that journal, just Neer saying he'll stop selling art and will mostly focus on the site. Not exactly a state of the union. Just a personal journal.





Arshes Nei said:


> I'm with Corto here, it's not a blind defense of Neer or the journal - I'm neutral towards it.
> 
> However, I don't consider the journal to be "NEWS" where one can post site matters on the forum or make it an official statement via admin notice.
> 
> To be more clear, I kinda dismiss a personal journal as the most proper channel for NEWS concerning the site unless it's stated to be the news through the administrator notice. That's not to say important events can't be discussed there or weighed in, but I take it as something like a "journalist blog" on yahoo news vs a proper newswire channel if that makes sense.



Exactly. From this point on, any "news" will be posted to both the front page of the site and via Fender's journals. Not my journals. I was posting just a state of things from my perspective, and how it applies to me.


----------



## Temrin (Nov 17, 2011)

Daemonshyai finally has a journal up with info: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2918238/


----------



## Accountability (Nov 18, 2011)

Temrin said:


> Daemonshyai finally has a journal up with info: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2918238/



My question is, if he had internet access at his office and was able to find out his passwords have been changed, why didn't he acknowledge this _two weeks ago_? A simple "A hacker has taken control of our DNS account. We are working on it" tweet would have made all the difference.

Really makes me question Gavin's ability to run FA.


----------



## BRN (Nov 18, 2011)

Accountability said:


> My question is, if he had internet access at his office and was able to find out his passwords have been changed, why didn't he acknowledge this _two weeks ago_? A simple "A hacker has taken control of our DNS account. We are working on it" tweet would have made all the difference.Really makes me question Gavin's ability to run FA.


>his passwords had been changed 
>why didn't he tweet


----------



## Accountability (Nov 18, 2011)

SIX said:


> >his passwords had been changed
> >why didn't he tweet



>his email passwords had been changed
>there is no mention of his twitter password being changed
>he used twitter to contact the domain registrar.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Nov 18, 2011)

Then that should be something you take up with Gavin. He's a grown man, and I'm sure you can address it to him directly.


----------



## Dragoneer (Nov 18, 2011)

Accountability said:


> >his email passwords had been changed
> >there is no mention of his twitter password being changed
> >he used twitter to contact the domain registrar.



I can't speak for Daemonshyai on the other issues, but he took up the issues on Twitter after calling, faxing, emailing and all other forms of communication with his registrar failed. Plus, they had a mandatory 5 day waiting period for each contact, making the issue long and slow. He was trying to handle the issues from day one the right way, but the right way was not working for him. When he took to Twitter they finally were able to resolve it, and fast.

Other than that, perhaps note him on FA? Ask him directly? A comment on the forums may not properly answer it, especially if he's not reading the forums.


----------

