# Cycle of death



## Smelge (Jul 18, 2010)

This cycle has been happening for the past couple of week, and I can't figure out what's causing it. Basically, it goes like this:

1 - Firefox starts crashing at random, getting more frequent over time
2 - MSN starts crashing, again, getting more frequent
3 - Windows starts throwing up errors about being unable to write to a certain location
4 - BSOD usually Bad_Pool_Caller though it was also throwing up AVG related ones (haven't had AVG on it since the first time I saw that error
5 - Eventually, the computer goes into a loop where it won't boot. It gets to the Windows loading screen then bombs and reboots.

Now, the writing error made me run full CHKDSK and it came up with no damaged sectors, but a few locations that needed data moved from them, so it may be a HDD error, but why would it do the same thing repeatedly with each install.

Did a RAM check and both sticks are fine.

Every time it hits the endless loop, I format and reinstall the lot. On the last install, Adobe Suite seemed to be causing issues, but on this install I left out CS4 and it's still going into it.

All service packs are up to date, everything has current drivers (except GPU as it would take an older version of the software, but the latest update would fail to install). It's XP, graphics card is ATI Radeon HD4800 series (warranty card in december), Western Digital HDD (new in april).

When I reinstall everything, it all runs fine for about 4 days before the issues start. I have no idea what is going on, and I'm getting annoyed that nothing seems to be working.

Ideas?


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 18, 2010)

The two things that come immediately to mind are a failing RAM stick and a slowly failing hard disk drive.  Both your test of RAM and the Chkdsk errors suggest that it's the hard disk that's failing.  Especially if the bad sectors are used by the pagefile and/or the MFT.

If you have a disk SMART monitoring tool, see if it reports anything wrong with your hard disk.  In Linux, there's a command-line package called smartctl and a GUI front-end for it called gsmartcontrol.  According to gsmartcontrol's home page, there's a Windows version as well, but I haven't used it.

Edit: Mash the F8 key just after the power-on self-test to get the Windows start-up options screen, and choose Disable automatic restart on system failure.  If Windows gets a BSOD during start-up, this option tells Windows to show it and stop instead of rebooting.


----------



## Smelge (Jul 18, 2010)

It's gone again, shortly after posting this. It BSOD'd twice, first with a general screen that I didn't have time to jot the codes down, the second was a IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL one.

Mashing F8 just gets me a choice of boot devices...


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 18, 2010)

Choose your hard disk, then keep mashing F8 again as shortly after that as you can.  That should bring up the Windows start-up options.


----------



## Smelge (Jul 18, 2010)

It's actually booted back up again, so I've gone and set it through Control Panel>System.

Looking through Event Viewer, nothing comes up apart from 3 program crashes this afternoon. No other error events.


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 18, 2010)

How old is the motherboard?  A possibility that occurred to me is one of the many integrated components on the motherboard, such as the disk drive controller.

If it's a desktop, then shut 'er down, pop the side panel off, and check the cable connections at both ends of each cable, making sure they're in all the way and snug.  It's an easy thing to overlook, but I once found a half-loose IDE cable as the cause of a baffling mail server software error.


----------



## Smelge (Jul 18, 2010)

The whole rig was built in november 2008, so about a year and a half.

A friend suggested it might be RAM issues, so I'll get Memcheck86+ or whatever it's called running overnight, see if anything pops up. Then I'll try the cables tomorrow. The whole thing has been moved arund a lot, so a popped out cable might be possible. I've driven it across Europe twice!


----------



## Smelge (Jul 18, 2010)

Odd.

I ran Memcheck and it started firing out errors straight away. So I switched off and am now retesting them both chips individually, and no errors are coming out for either.


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 18, 2010)

Maybe one module or another worked itself loose?  Or, if you still get errors with both modules present, maybe a bad memory slot instead of a bad module?


----------



## Smelge (Jul 18, 2010)

I've switched them from the black memory slots to the yellow, and seems to be running with no errors. Maybe it is the slots. I'll run the test overnight, see what it drags up.


----------



## Smelge (Jul 19, 2010)

Ramcheck did a full 7hr40 and something like 15 passes and no errors now they're in different slots. Fuck computers. Why is it always something irritatingly hard to diagnose?


----------



## Runefox (Jul 19, 2010)

Weak RAM slots happen sometimes. But on that note, if the RAM is high-performance/gaming RAM, you may in fact need to bump up the voltage in the BIOS for it to be stable. By default, the voltage is set for 1.8V, but products like Corsair's XMS and Dominator series require 2.1V to function properly.


----------



## Smelge (Jul 19, 2010)

They are Crucial Ballistix.

Incidentally, I decided to level the OS and start again, but I'm still getting errors updating ATI.


----------



## Runefox (Jul 19, 2010)

I think Crucial Ballistix can vary between 1.9V and 2.1V, depending on the model number. You should take a look and see what the proper voltage is for your specific type.

Also, you might want to take a look and see if there's any bad capacitors on the motherboard; That can cause all sorts of problems. You might also want to make sure that the computer's dusted out (canned air works great) and for the sake of completeness, re-seat any expansion cards, including your video card (and make sure _that's_ dusted out, too). When you switch the computer back on, make sure all the fans are spinning, particularly the CPU and video card fans.


----------



## Smelge (Aug 3, 2010)

Oh yeah. It's gone again.

Looks like the other RAM slots have failed.


----------



## Smelge (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok, to update...

Same issues as before, last time the memory slots were damaged or not working right. Whatever. So RAM was flipped to the remaining two slots.

Voltage issues, the BIOS claims voltage to the RAM is 1.8v, Ballistix can work up to 2.2v, so low voltage shouldn't damage anything. I have memcheck86+'d both Ram again, no issues on their own or both at once, which is different from last time. Last time it threw all kinds of errors scanning together.

I have de-dusted inside, checked all connections are secure to and from motherboard. Both RAM are properly seated.

I decided if the slots are blown, possibly one is short-circuiting the other, so I plugged an individual stick into each slot in turn, then trying to boot. None of the slots allowed it to get past the windows loading screen. Repeated with the second card, just in case, same result.

I'm suspecting the motherboard is fucked, but any other suggestions are welcome.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 3, 2010)

Again, raise the voltage of the RAM. While low voltage shouldn't *damage* the RAM, it may affect *stability*. If your RAM is rated for 2.2V, feed it 2.2V. If it's rated for 2.1V, give it 2.1V. Don't overvolt and don't undervolt. Overvolting causes overheating (though increased stability if the chip can handle it, it will reduce the chip's life expectancy), and undervolting causes instability.


----------



## Smelge (Aug 3, 2010)

Changed it to 2.2v, still bombs at Windows loading screen.


----------



## Smelge (Aug 5, 2010)

Update.

Dropped RAM voltage to 2v as some of the tech pages for my RAM say 2.0 and some say up to 2.2, even the manufacturer seems unsure. Adjusted timing for the RAM a well to 4-4-4-12 instead of 5-5-5-15 or whatever the comp was running at. On advice from Asus tech support, I also lowered the speed from 800MHz to 667MHz. Surprsingly, none of this has actually fixed it, so I bumped the speed back to 800.

I'm convinced the slots are fucked, but Asus seem to be trying to find various complex way of saying it isn't. hopefully I can get it warrantied, as it has 3 years, but they'll want it sent back to the seller. Who claim that after 6 months, it's needing sent to manufacturer.

I've had that happen before with my ATI card. Spent weeks arguing with both ATI and Play.com with both refusing to take the card for warranty. Ended up sending them both nasty emails saying I'd think twice against using their services/products in future, seeing as it's faulty warrantiable equipment, it's not my job to sort out who has to fix it. It got fixed within a week.


----------



## Smelge (Sep 24, 2010)

Update again.

It all pointed to the RAM sockets being fucked, so contacted Asus, who decided that, yes, it needed to be warrantied. Overclockers refused to take it back and warranty, so I had to pay for it myself. It went away and has just returned today. Asus obviously thought it wasn't a fixable issue, and just sent a brand new motherboard.

So, loaded it all in to the computer, started it up and got USB device over current status detected which shut it back down again, so I've removed all the USB sockets in to the motherboard and it actually started booting!

Then bombed at the windows loading screen AGAIN.

Fuck.

Now what. Could it be the processor? Should I try and warranty the RAM, despite them both checking out on Memtest86+? What the fuck is wrong with my computer?


----------



## Smelge (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok, progress.

Tried starting up in Safe Mode, it keeps bombing when it hits MUP.sys, so looked that one up. Seems it's something that causes this exact reboot cycle, and comes in on one of the Microsoft updates for improving stability of Pentium processors, or something. Seems the general consensus is to throw in the XP disc and fix it through Recovery Console. Except for some reason, my CD has no Recovery Console option. so fuck it, I'm formatting, got it properly loading now and Ill just have to start again and keep an eye on the shite that gets installed.

In other news, my USB connections still throw up a USB Device over current status error. Maybe driver installs will fix that shit.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 24, 2010)

... No. That means the board they sent you back was probably bad. Drivers won't help USB over current / over voltage, as that's a hardware problem. It might be worth checking under the System Monitor in the BIOS (under Power) and seeing what voltages are coming in.


----------



## Smelge (Sep 24, 2010)

This is really fucking pissing me off now.

Suddenly the HDD is no longer being detected. SATA 1 just will not work for no apparent reason, meaning I can't start the fucking computer. It worked before I rebooted, because I'd just been installing shit on it.

Add to that, I can't find USB voltages anywhere. Haven't got system monitor, but do have Hardware Monitor, and it just has:
CPU Voltage [1.136v]
3.3v voltage [3.344v]
5v voltage [5.016v]
12v voltage [12.040v]

That is it. Add to that, my internet cable seems to have stopped working. Fuck computers.

[edit] Swapping the HDD to SATA2 seems to have worked, though the DVD drive plugged into SATA1 no longer works, so looks like the actual SATA1 slot is fucked. So much for a new board.

[edit2] Now the HDD is in SATA2, on startup, it pops up with a "No HDD detected" message. And the computer starts windows quite happily regardless. And yes, the HDD is detected by BIOS and it's first in Boot priority.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeeeeeaaaaah, you got sent back a lemon. My guess is you got a refurb board back, and they didn't totally fix it (they probably just test for POST).


----------



## Smelge (Oct 7, 2010)

Hey, guess what...

Ok, I phoned up Asus about the duff board, they told me to get fucked and send it back to Creative Computeing to get it Warrantied AGAIN. It takes at least 6 weeks to warranty, as they send it to Croatia, or somewhere in that general region. Going to do it seeing as it's gone tits up again.

In the meantime, I tried a reinstall of Windows with a completely new Windows version, so it's not problems with my version of XP. I did have an issue the other day where XP would be booting, then it would just go black. I restarted in Safe mode, and found that it was going black as soon as it switched to the GPU. So a reinstall of the software for that failed, but removing the card and reseating it did work.

However, it has now gone into the endless loop again. Would this sort of thing be caused by the GPU dicking about? I was thinking of trying to borrow another GPU to see if it was causing the problems before sending the Motherboard away again, so at least I'll know if I need to save for a new one of those while I wait for the Mobo to return.

Only other thing I can think of doing is just sending back the RAM, though it seems to check out fine.


----------

