# Killing off charcters.



## makmakmob (Jul 23, 2008)

I've been thinking about this a lot. (and out of fear of sounding nob-headed I first want to make sure everyone knows I don't even consider myself even an amature writer, just one who's keen to actually write something.)

As I've already specified the stories I want to write relate to violence, and violence mean death. Does that mean, then that it is required that in such a story the death of certain characters is _required_ to create realism? Are there certain characters it is 'safe' to kill off without ruining the story for readers. I've always made the assumption that if I kill off a nice character, one for whom the audience is really rooting for, then I will simply make them resentful for destroying their hopes for that story, regardless of setting...


Any advice on how to flog myself Into actually writing something wouldn't go amiss either


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## Furthlingam (Jul 23, 2008)

Well, I mean, ever read a plausible story in which nobody died? Or in which somebody died and you didn't see it coming? Or did? I think all three can work. The death of a character is purely a tool. If tear-jerking's your goal and you can do so w/o messing up some plot you have in mind, kill away, I say. Also works where satisfying a lust for vengeance is your goal, I should think.


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## Poetigress (Jul 23, 2008)

Like so many things, to me this boils down to: If the story requires that a particular character die, then they should die.  If it doesn't, they shouldn't.  

Every story is going to have a different set of variables, and you could find examples of every possibility (nice characters being killed or surviving, major characters being killed or surviving, minor characters... and so on).  You have to trust your judgment to figure out what's best for your story, regardless of how you think a hypothetical reader might react.


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## Ride_the_Lightning (Jul 23, 2008)

Killing off a character just for the sake of killing him is bad idea in my opinion. If it comes natural for the character to die do to the circumstances in the story, then it's ok.


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## xKagex (Jul 23, 2008)

sometimes it is required to kill off a nice character that the people are rooting for. however, at the same time, to make it so the audience isn't all ticked and feel the story is ruined, you could add some repercussion or action based off of said death. as an example, another character going for revenge, thus giving them more motivation and feeding the violence. or the remaining characters stopping to rethink what it is they're fighting for and why?
i dunno. just my thoughts on the topic


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## GatodeCafe (Jul 23, 2008)

One of my main goals with my writing is to really fuck with readers heads, and one of the ways I do that is with completely meaningless, superfluous deaths. When there's a death in my stories, it just happens, but there are never any real ramifications, and the plot just goes on like the killed people never were there in the first place. I also like to use completely meaningless sex and violence to this same aim, I believe it creates a sort of meta-parody of western culture.


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## TakeWalker (Jul 23, 2008)

Hey, here's a topic I've been wanting to make for a while!  I have designs to kill off a major character in a you-won't-see-it-coming sort of way, but have lately been having second thoughts. The sticking point is, he might not _need_ to die to fulfill what his death would accomplish; however, I've got no plans for him after that point. And, well, people might in fact like him and be pissed he's dead.


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## johnothano (Jul 23, 2008)

I find this topic sticky: die or not to die?

Deaths of major characters (such as protagonists) tends to piss off and alienate a reader, but a slightly removed death, such as the loving mother work well to inspire revenge/repentance/serious thought.  I tend to stay away from death personally, because handled the wrong way can screw up a story to high heaven and I don't want to fall into that trap.

My basic rule of thumb? If your gonna kill a character that the reader may associate with and like, you better make that story end happy.
Of course, if your main character is an anti-hero type or a villain, you may throw out my rule of thumb to highlight your character or bring out a trait or whatnot.  

Writing death requires an emotional detachment from your characters, because the more gory details = stronger reaction.  It can be painful to write (another reason why I rarely use death)


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## Vesuro (Jul 24, 2008)

I quite often kill off protagonists, and where sometimes it can alienate a reader, done well it can spur on a story and make it more believable.

My story is about a war though. People are going to die.


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## Xioneer (Jul 24, 2008)

I often create rich and interesting characters specifically to die, and as I tend toward indepth plot arcs from the start, I generally have plans as to where, when, how and why even main characters I conceive will die. The potential for or surety of tragedy in an Epic plot will usually draw more readers than it drives away. You basically want to either go with what you like or craft what you want to present to a certain cross section of readers, and if you can do both at the same time, then all the better. You can't please everyone, and unless you are an experienced writer or a genious, you are nearer foolish than wise to try.

An Adventure/Thriller is itself dead if nobody dies in the plot, even if innocent bystanders or fringe supporting characters. Death in a storyine builds tension and makes the story seem more solemn and serious. If some types of readers get the sense that, while your story has definite deadly aspects, you as the author have no intention that anyone dies, they won't take your plot and realm of adventure seriously.

If you are methodical and orderly, then "There is a time and a place for everything". If you tend to be haphazard and yield to whim, then go with your flow. It all depends on your targeted audience and whether or not you want to hold those readers you currently have. Ask your readers if possible. Rating, Genre and the scope of the story are all important factors. And if you are looking to craft something enduring and popular, you can assume you are going to have to experiment and practice a lot before you get a raving success...unless you want to spend 7 years on your first in-depth work. A word of advice; Plan on coming back and revising some of your present works in ten years, because you may look back on them in future and shake your head and wonder "What was I thinking?". If possible, if you have the patience, save the storylines and concepts you feel the strongest about and return to them later when you have the knowledge and experience to really do them right, or work on the over a very long period. "Good things are worth waiting/fighting for" and most writers will tell you, it can be a tough fight and long wait...


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jul 24, 2008)

I was discussing just this problem on another board, where we discussing a series where a popular secondary character was attacked and assumed dead, and in the next book it turned out she'd been rescued and was in a coma in a hospital under a different name. I said that unless I knew a character had a real chance of dying - that is, if I thought the authors would kill them off - then I didn't feel any sense of danger. I suspected this particular character wouldn't be really dead because she was a fan favorite, and so the whole stabbing/disappearance subplot felt very hollow and contrived.

Several people disagreed, because they really liked the character and didn't want to read a series where a character they cared for would be threatened with extinction. I don't really understand this  - why read about them being in danger at all? It's a failing I am willing to forgive for entertainment geared toward children, or mass media like movies, but for some weird reason I expect books to be a little more unpredictable than that. 

When I write, I sometimes really have to force myself to kill off a character, even when the plot and planning demand it. That's when I know that death is (hopefully!) going to smack the reader upside the head, too - it's much easier to kill off cardboard cutouts.


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## M. LeRenard (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm actually a huge fan of the J.K. Rowling school of killing off characters.  The way she did it in her books, you had no idea who was going to die and who was going to live, which to me made it seem way more believable, and at the same time increased the suspense of the books a hundred fold.
But other than that, what PT said.  Don't got nothin' much to add.


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## Grimfang (Jul 25, 2008)

You know, my favorite stories have some of my favorite characters killed off. It gives some value, in my mind.

My favorite series, The Minotaur Wars, does this quite well. There are key characters, some that seem essential to the storyline, that just BAM! dead. And it leaves you holding back tears like "What? ... No!"

There was a certain event where a battle at sea was ending. A rebel fleet was getting away, when suddenly, a long-shot cannonball blew a plank into one guy's chest. That was a devastating event in the story. Then there was another cruel event where a character was ambushed and driven off a cliff with his enemies. His death was never clearly stated, so, PFFT of course he's going to show up later!

.. well, he didn't.

But it adds angst, and that's essential for those page-turning, intriguing stories for me. Everyone likes different things though. Beware of any fans that may have become attached.. you may receive death threats. It makes it all worthwhile though.


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## Vagabond (Aug 2, 2008)

I have a related question:
What can I do to make readers attached to a character as fast as possible? To make the character's death as jarring as possible?
Had, what I hope, was a neat/somewhat original idea for a short story.


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## KenJKitsune (Aug 2, 2008)

Vagabond said:


> I have a related question:
> What can I do to make readers attached to a character as fast as possible? To make the character's death as jarring as possible?
> Had, what I hope, was a neat/somewhat original idea for a short story.



IMHO, it depends on the reader. Some readers will become attached to a certain character very quickly, while for others it may take several chapters. To try and speed the process along, I would say try to give the character real faults. Allow the character to grow, learn, and change over time. Perhaps you can take real life learning experiences and implant them into your character development.

Hope that helps!


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## Vagabond (Aug 2, 2008)

The intended effect of my experiment is increasing desensitization. I have to try to attach the reader to a character as fast as possible. Very little room for development. I was considering trying cramming in as much exposure to the character's past, personality, and life as possible. Max unique "flavour" per character in as little space as possible. There's a neat disorientation when reading a collection of short stories, it becomes harder and harder to fall into the world of the next story (at least for me), or in this case the character. I was going to shoot for that.


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## lobosabio (Aug 2, 2008)

Vagabond said:


> The intended effect of my experiment is increasing desensitization. I have to try to attach the reader to a character as fast as possible. Very little room for development. I was considering trying cramming in as much exposure to the character's past, personality, and life as possible. Max unique "flavour" per character in as little space as possible. There's a neat disorientation when reading a collection of short stories, it becomes harder and harder to fall into the world of the next story (at least for me), or in this case the character. I was going to shoot for that.



To be honest, that would make me want to stop reading.  Simply too much information in one go.  It's overload my brain.


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## Vagabond (Aug 2, 2008)

Yea, I have to do it fast before they lose interest. I'll try to make their deaths as violent and sudden as possible for entertainment's sake. It's tricky, which is why I have avoided getting around to the idea.

On the de-humanizing of war. Of course, getting anyone to read a story with an actual message is hard.


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## makmakmob (Aug 2, 2008)

Wouldn't there be certain character traits most readers would find agreeable?


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## Vagabond (Aug 2, 2008)

I'll have to trim down how much exposure to each character as it progresses so it isn't tedious. Nearly everything they do will have to show their personality and traits. I think I need more practice before I get around to this.

I would say "believable" over agreeable for character traits. The more of this and the more shocking their death will be. At least that's how it is for me.


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## Ecs Wolfie (Aug 2, 2008)

I haven't really written anything where I killed someone off yet, But i've read a book that I lost almost all interest in because they killed of a character I related to the most. It would have to be dependant on the reader to decide whether the killing off of a character ruins the plot or not.

Eh, My opinion, Kill off characters if it is good for the story, Sure some people might not like it but others wouldn't mind.


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## Kitsuneluke (Aug 3, 2008)

easy, loaded gun...


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## WhiteHowl (Aug 4, 2008)

makmakmob said:


> I've been thinking about this a lot. (and out of fear of sounding nob-headed I first want to make sure everyone knows I don't even consider myself even an amature writer, just one who's keen to actually write something.)
> 
> As I've already specified the stories I want to write relate to violence, and violence mean death. Does that mean, then that it is required that in such a story the death of certain characters is _required_ to create realism? Are there certain characters it is 'safe' to kill off without ruining the story for readers. I've always made the assumption that if I kill off a nice character, one for whom the audience is really rooting for, then I will simply make them resentful for destroying their hopes for that story, regardless of setting...
> 
> ...


I consider myself as an amateur writer but here is how I see it :\ 

When you kill off a character, a main character, the key thing is to ask yourself is it a necessity to do so? The death of a main character is situational, and they way you kill the guy off should present an appropriate mood.

The thing about it is, no one likes to see a main protagonist die off. The most appropriate way of doing it to garner very little negative reaction is to kill the character off really early maybe right before the rising action or really late towards/at climax and then leading into the denouement.


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 4, 2008)

> Nearly everything they do will have to show their personality and traits


Well, that should something you do all the time, to be honest.
As for building up affection for someone in a short time, it won't ever be deep affection if the time is too short.  Generally, if you go to a bar and meet some woman you find you really like, then discover the next day that she got hit by a car, you'll probably be sad, but it won't break your heart.  You barely knew her.  Characters are kind of like that: it really does need time to build up a real connection to them.  Otherwise they're just interesting people, and shucks that they died, but life goes on.
I really can't think of any shortcut for this.


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## Vore Writer (Aug 5, 2008)

Killing off characters.. That's something I tend to do in a lot of my stories, and that includes my non-vore stuff. Yes, I do write some of those. I try to anyway. I like seeing what type of reaction I get with the other characters. Plus I also have this weird fascination with death.


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## Toonces (Aug 5, 2008)

Vagabond said:


> The intended effect of my experiment is increasing desensitization. I have to try to attach the reader to a character as fast as possible. Very little room for development. I was considering trying cramming in as much exposure to the character's past, personality, and life as possible. Max unique "flavour" per character in as little space as possible. There's a neat disorientation when reading a collection of short stories, it becomes harder and harder to fall into the world of the next story (at least for me), or in this case the character. I was going to shoot for that.



This is a bad way of going about this. You don't flesh out a character by giving more information about him. You can't develop a character by telling me _more_ about his life.

Jane Gallagher in _The Catcher in the Rye_ kept all her kings in the back row. An attentive reader, an engaged reader, will be intrigued by this. He'll begin to branch out on Jane Gallagher's life, start filling in the missing pieces surrounding this simple quirk of hers. Granted, not every little quirk will be interesting enough to spawn that kind of reaction. That's the point though. You're supposed to be writing _interesting_ characters, not necessarily _detailed_ ones.

Don't think on too large of a scale with your characters. We don't need to follow them to their little league baseball games, senior prom, and onwards to begin to empathize with them. We just need to be intrigued by something about them, even it's just that they keep their kings all in the back row.

If you want a lesson on how to create and kill off characters, read _Catch-22_. Pretty much everybody dies. Most characters, you don't follow them all through their lives. Heller focuses on one specific thing about them (for example, Nately's hopeless attraction to his whore) and develops that one peculiar part about them so well. When they die, it hits you every time.


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## Orion928 (Aug 12, 2008)

well it all depends on the cercumstances and the execution of it


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## Shouden (Aug 13, 2008)

Personally, I think a great way to kill of characters is to let everyone get attached, let them grow and learn and then kill them in some fitting way. And remember that not all deaths are violent. But, in the book I just wrote the main character ends up dying at the end and in a book like what I wrote, it just doesn't seem like it is going to happen. You just expect the character to go on living, but that isn't reality.

I actually hate killing off my characters. I always end up getting attached to them myself, and it sucks killing them off. You do not have to kill your main characters though. That is the great thing about writing, is that you can let your characters survive all kinds of things. But be careful that they do not step out of character to save their own tail. The last thing you want to do is confuse your readers in the middle or end of the story.


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## Stratelier (Aug 13, 2008)

makmakmob said:
			
		

> ...Are there certain characters it is 'safe' to kill off without ruining the story for readers?


Yes, I hear that wearing red is bad luck.

And with that particular clichÃ© in mind, if your plot calls for a character to be killed, don't "tokenize" it.  If it's an important character killed, that is not just something you can simply dwell on for a chapter or two and then forget about it for the rest of the novel.  It should be allowed to linger, to occasionally haunt the character long after the actual death.


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