# Overdue Commission Advice?



## ShinobiDragon (Dec 22, 2016)

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this but I'll give it a whirl. It's lengthy, but it's worth it :x

So here's the scenario.

There is this artist named Q. Q is quite popular among the fandom with their art and they open for commissions occasionally. Over the years, I have observed their random openings with no moolah but one fine day, I've decided to jump in and get a commission from them. I've paid for the commission, and they've made a comment about being in school and taking about 1-3 months to get the work done. I didn't mind since I am in school too and I know how busy it gets so I really didn't care as long as the work was completed and I got a heads-up about any wips or something in that general time frame that was given. Everything was clear.

This took place in February.

So time flies by and we hit June. Not a word. I grow concerned, thinking Q got in some situation involving medical attention or they had to do things out of town, y'know, an emergency or something since that typically excuses a long period of time without a word from the artist.

I've learned about them having a Twitter over this period and checked on there to see if that was the case.

Nope. Q's doing just fine and remained quite active on there. Posted his own personal work and activities almost on a weekly basis. He is shown responding to people giving him compliments and free art and his other art friends who are also popular with their own tweets.

So, I was like, "Okay, let me hit them up on Twitter in a DM since they're not that active on FA and say if it's easier for them to throw stuff at me on Twitter, that's fine."

Still no response for several months. Q posted a bit afterwards, even threw in a commission journal saying he was open for slots back on FA a few times. So since he's on FA for a few days to assumingly check if he will get commissions, I go back there and see if he read any of my notes asking what's up in a polite manner of course, and I try to not spam any. I've sent Q about 2 notes since the transaction after June. Both of them are gold. Unread.

So now I get annoyed as a client. Not only am I being ignored by the person I am paying, but they are also *posting their own art they've done over the week on a normal basis*, socializing with other people they favor, or fans kissing Q's ass with gift art to which he replies to *within minutes*. I understand some artists, including myself, have their own schedule and workflow; some take days, some take weeks, or even months. Which is just fine. It's not my first rodeo with commissions as a client, and I don't stress them out. I throw in my references and details and leave them be until they note me later telling me about an update and we go from there. Rarely do I ever contact them about the status of the work -- in fact, this is my first time doing so. The latest I got one completed by an artist took a few months *but they at least communicated with me and replied to my notes.*

I'm not demanding to have my work done right now. I strongly believe I am not sounding like a spoiled prick kicking the artist's door down every 3 days and pestering them for an answer. I just want to get a single response back to know what in the world is happening with what I paid good money for. It's not right to leave a client in the dark for a long time. Noncommunication kills your business. Know that I'm not sitting in front of my monitor staring for a new note to appear, I do my stuff as well and I wondered about the status over that span of 10 months.

tldr I paid for a service that is either being ignored, never started, or already done and just sitting there in their file folders. The possibilities of what Q has done are endless since they are refusing to make a peep to me and I have no idea where the work stands after 10 months. They are not injured or any sort of trouble is keeping them from completing work, based on their regular tweeting activity and their own art posting on social media.
_
Should Q be called out publicly? After all, since the artist themself isn't answering, why not have their community do that instead? This may sound a bit hostile I guess, but with no other communication from the source itself, what else to do?

What would you do if you were in this situation?_

PS, Im not even sure if this is a normal routine for the "popufur" artists giving this kind of situation. If so, I have learned my lesson :T

PSS, How long do you typically wait for commissions to be completed? I'm always on the other end where I do commissions for people and give them within several days, longest has been a week or two, but I never know how long it takes in another person's shoes.

Thanks for listening to my yapper.


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## nerdbat (Dec 22, 2016)

Who is Q anyway? It's the first time I've ever heard of him, lol

Either way, if all information above is correct, and you're not hiding anything, then try to contact him one last time and express your disappointment with how commission "went", maybe you'll work something out. If nothing will change, don't hesitate to call him out, try to write a message into "Artist Beware" too - it's a legitimate reason to be pissed, really, and artists, popular or not, shouldn't be allowed to get away with stuff like this, no matter how minor.


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## Sarachaga (Dec 22, 2016)

First off, I'm really sorry that this is happening to you. I'm definitely not an expert on the matter but I'll try to help you as much as I can.
-Do you have proof of your payment? Like a receipt or a transaction number? 
-Try to message him once more. Don't tell him you're going to call him out or anything, cuz that sounds pretty blackmail-ish . Tell him you payed for a commission, show him proof that you paid and tell him you would like at least one update on the situation.
-If he doesn't respond, you can call him out publicly . If so, check first if there are others in your situation.
I hope this helped a little .


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## nerdbat (Dec 22, 2016)

Sarachaga said:


> -Try to message him once more. Don't tell him you're going to call him out or anything, cuz that sounds pretty blackmail-ish . Tell him you payed for a commission, show him proof that you paid and tell him you would like at least one update on the situation.


I don't see anything that blackmail-ish in it, honestly. The guy is supposedly avoiding his responsibilities as a commission artist, and telling him that he has to eventually face them is a logical thing to do. Unlike blackmail, where anything can be used against you regardless of its relation to the subject, the artist in question is fully responsible for taking money and not doing anything in return, and by letting him know that you're going to conclude the whole mess, either with his help or not, you're more likely to get him take the thing seriously instead of ignoring it again as "a random sap who gave dosh some time ago, he'll get over it".


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## Sarachaga (Dec 22, 2016)

@nerdbat: You're right. In this situation, he his well within his right to call him out and telling the artist that he is ready to go to such lengths is actually a good thing to do.
Sorry for the inappropriate use of the blackmail term  --' .


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## ShinobiDragon (Dec 22, 2016)

Sarachaga said:


> First off, I'm really sorry that this is happening to you. I'm definitely not an expert on the matter but I'll try to help you as much as I can.
> -Do you have proof of your payment? Like a receipt or a transaction number?
> -Try to message him once more. Don't tell him you're going to call him out or anything, cuz that sounds pretty blackmail-ish . Tell him you payed for a commission, show him proof that you paid and tell him you would like at least one update on the situation.
> -If he doesn't respond, you can call him out publicly . If so, check first if there are others in your situation.
> I hope this helped a little .



I have screenshots of all the notes I've sent with this person and the payment on Paypal. The only regret is that I paid them outside of an invoice :c
I'll hit 'em up one more time before I do anything drastic. And the third bulletin is something I'm doing now. Im hunting down their other clients and gonna ask if their situation's similar to mine or not. It helps, most definitely.


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## ShinobiDragon (Dec 22, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> it's a legitimate reason to be pissed, really, and artists, popular or not, shouldn't be allowed to get away with stuff like this, no matter how minor.


Agreed. Regardless of where they stand in the art world, it's the principle of the situation. You get paid to do something in a timely manner, it's your responsibility and job. No excuses why you can't even talk to your own client.


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## Yarik (Dec 23, 2016)

Write the artist one more note (and Twitter message too) if titled call it "Warning" or something that calls attention. 
Unfortunately you messed up an important detail: Paypal protects you for a certain amount of time. You most likely already passed that time other wise you could have called your money back. 
However maybe the artist isn't aware of that - write in the note:
-when and what you ordered
-screenshot of payment
-when you've messaged them before
-that you feel ignored/scammed and when no repsonse follows you'll contact Paypal as well as warn others public about them. (Artist beware is a good place for cases like this!)
I'd try contacting paypal anyways (Only if the artist doesn't reply, obviously). Maybe you're lucky and they can help you.

I do commissions a lot too. At one point I was working and studying and trying to be social - I can gurantee you that there is NO reason for an artist to ignore a client. They can spend a minute writing you a note. They also can skip their damn personal fun and do.their.job. I VERY rarely touch my personal WIPs unless I finished all commissions - or delivered a WIP for everyone who waited already for 3 days to hear from me and if for some reason I cannot provide updates (or actually would ever feel too unmotivated to draw at all) I'd write messages to people. If you take commissions it's a job, do it or don't take any. There is no excuse for this behavoir - they're scamming you and if they aren't then they deserve the bad reputation for their lack-of-communication anyways.
I'm really sorry you're going through this but if you want to warn others - make use of Artists Beware.
Only in case they are still ignoring you after the serious warning, of course. Maybe that is a enough of a reminder to treat their commissions more seriously and you'll get your image quiet soon :v


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## Rant (Dec 23, 2016)

Call out publicly to the artists followers to see if others have been scammed. You might not be the only one watvhing him on twitter hoping he'll respond.


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## ShinobiDragon (Dec 23, 2016)

Yarik said:


> Write the artist one more note (and Twitter message too) if titled call it "Warning" or something that calls attention.
> Unfortunately you messed up an important detail: Paypal protects you for a certain amount of time. You most likely already passed that time other wise you could have called your money back.
> However maybe the artist isn't aware of that - write in the note:
> -when and what you ordered
> ...




Yeah, that was the key detail i messed up with. Too late to have paypal refund me-- only other way is if the artist chooses to do so himself. I have all of that info screenshoted that you highlighted, though!
I'll hunt down the clients who paid him in the past and ask about their experiences with him as well before I make any huge decisions.

And I don't get it either. I  personally feel like a dick if I don't show work to a client after several days or don't reply to their note in less than a week @.=.@ But I would definitely not let favoritism or ass kissing block the way of my work if that would ever be the case. And that is perfectly fitting my situation.

That is good insight from you! I'm glad other people are having a response similar to how I thought people would react.


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## ShinobiDragon (Dec 24, 2016)

$50 on the dot. Popularity gets in their head and they don't take things seriously. It was a "popufur" and I rarely get commissions since I draw and aim to get to their level or surpass the things I find impressive with their work. I just buy from some artists because it's a nice change and it doesn't hurt to see my creations made in a different style if I had extra money to spend after taking care of financial responsibilities.

Things like this strengthen my goal to become better than popufurs in terms of being a good artist to commission and getting better with art.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 24, 2016)

Continue to try to work things out civilly, though if they're continuing to take on new commissions, I'd say you're justified in preparing a post to artists_beware at this point. Make sure you don't send an excessive amount of notes/DMs/etc in short succession, basically to cover your own back.

As they're using FA to get business while still having outstanding commissions to complete, you could file a Trouble Ticket under the "Scamming" category - just be aware that we have a minimum number of reports about a given user that we need to receive before launching an investigation, as we technically aren't responsible for business deals made on the site, so I can't guarantee whether this will produce a result in any given case. 

Please do not publicly call out the artist on FA (including the forums) - when people write callout journals I (or other staff) end up having to remove them, and that makes me sad. And probably will make you pretty unhappy, too, as your account ends up having a record of that removal.

Generally speaking, I don't necessarily consider posting personal art _within reason_ before all paid work is completed a problem. I know for myself I can doodle up a picture of my own frequently-used characters half asleep in like 10-30 minutes (depending on complexity/how complete/refined the final art is) and it'll take 2-3 times that and a bit more alertness to produce something passable of someone else's characters, to their specifications. But that's mostly, like... dumb little doodles/Tumblr post illustrations, not Quality Artwork, and I don't know what sort of art this artist has been creating/posting for zirself, so I can't say whether that applies in this case. This is also very much a "within reason" thing, as obviously sooner or later things do get to a point where it piles up and you as the artist need to seriously consider either buckling up or issuing refunds.


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## ShinobiDragon (Dec 24, 2016)

Allrighty, so an update to the issue after asking around:
I've asked several of this person's clients (some were those that I'm familiar with that bought things from me as well) about their experience with hiim-- they all have similar stories.

Turns out he very rarely replies to notes or his personal email that he leaves available and says school takes up his available time and apologizes. Despite giving his customers a 1-3 month time window of expecting the work to be done, he never finishes around that time period, makes no attempt to contact the client during said time period, and eventually posts a bunch of commissions all in one period later on. Some tried one last time in a polite manner of course to try working something out or issuing a refund and the artist responded shortly after (but that was with one of the 3 guys I've asked, don't know if the other two tried one last time).

Guess that answers the mystery of barely knowing what's going on: the artist has a poor structure to their services but they (eventually) get it done despite not making a peep. It's a very disorganized approach to doing paid work- if you can't handle that stuff *with your own time period that you yourself structure and distribute to a client*, maybe you shouldn't do commissions at all. Better yet, don't even give that time window.

I'm not really that livid, honestly. I'm just disappointed someone is this loose and unresponsive to people who paid for a service.

And thank you Mungo for giving that information! I find myself doing doodles to warm myself up and prime myself for doing work for a person from time to time if I find myself Artblocked or my quality isn't really the way I'd want it to be on a slow day-- and there's nothing wrong with it! Things in between the main works and commissions do help a lot for sure.
I hear about filing tickets and all that, but I never wondered how to go across doing that formally. I'll keep your notes in mind if I ever find myself in that position.


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## nerdbat (Dec 25, 2016)

Sarachaga said:


> @nerdbat: You're right. In this situation, he his well within his right to call him out and telling the artist that he is ready to go to such lengths is actually a good thing to do.
> Sorry for the inappropriate use of the blackmail term  --' .


You're forgiven, my child, you can hug the butt now .o.


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## Jax Cottontail (Dec 27, 2016)

Dude that really sucks. If you ever need a commission done I am both communicative and punctual I will hook you up. Send me a PM if you are interested.


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## Revous (Jan 2, 2017)

It really baffles me how someone can do this. Long wait times happen? Sure, but the least that must be done is send out regular updates, WIPs, or at least messages. NOTHING AT ALL justifies going silent for literal months.

As an artist, some things I do (and I suggest ya'll look for in artists you might be considering):
-A fixed, realistic timeline. I consider myself timely as hell, all of my pics get done in a week max, period. And that's the case for huge crazy pics, the regular ones are 3-4 days max.
-An artist that is... well, an artist. One that takes it as a side job or even full time job (that's my case). Not to be prejudicial, but if you hand over your money to someone that views drawing as a hobby, be aware you might receive hobbyist behavior from the "artist".
-While some people charge upfront, I personally don't think it's needed. Half/half is less terrible, or better yet, one single payment in the middle of the process. I only charge when I get to shading. If the client gives up/doesn't pay, I will simply deface/alter the pic until it's not their character anymore and post it. Happened only once a long time ago, thankfully.
-A boatload of updates. I ALWAYS provide at least 3 approval previews on important stages (sketch, colored/detailed, shaded) but have went as far as sending literally 30+ update pics to a particularly picky client. It's better to be overly annoying with approval pics whenever I'm unsure, than risk having something redone and wasting my client's time as well as mine.
-A reputation. It's sad, but you're much more likely to receive good service if you go for people whose galleries are packed with paid commissions and good reviews. Be aware of popufur who "give out" a bunch of art (more giveaways than paid commissions are, often, a sign the person doesn't take deadlines seriously. I consider it a bit offensive to waste your time drawing gifts when you have a paying, waiting client in line).
-Clear fees for edits/alterations/changes of mind are a nice plus, so you won't be surprised if you change your mind on something.


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## ShinobiDragon (Jan 9, 2017)

Update, sent an email to the artist on the 2nd asking for one last response and to work out a refund if he didn't start yet.
Aaaaaand no response yet. My mind is slowly turning to just get my money back at this point. I was excited enough to let the time slide for an excuse but after learning of this activity and treatment to his own clients, that leniency is starting to fade out.


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## Sarachaga (Jan 9, 2017)

I hope you'll get at least your money back man. :c


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## Andy Bailey (Jan 10, 2017)

Yeah!


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## Caraid (Jan 10, 2017)

> PS, Im not even sure if this is a normal routine for the "popufur" artists giving this kind of situation. If so, I have learned my lesson :T



First off - I'm really sorry you're going through this. As a working artist myself, stuff like this hurts my (and every other artist's) business and it is completely inexcusable. Your generosity and patience, and the overall generosity and patience of every single client I've had in this fandom goes above and beyond anything I've experienced professionally. Were it any other field of work, this person would probably have faced legal action already (or at the very least been threatened with it), even over a small amount because it would be a won case without a doubt. You were promised a service for your payment which you, in good faith, paid full upfront and they have not lived up to their part of your agreement. Your money has essentially been stolen.

Having said that, as an artist who has worked hard to build a large audience, the stereotyping of "popufurs" or otherwise equating popularity to arrogance or bad business is a bit unfair. This is NOT normal routine for a professional artist and rather than avoiding "big name" artists by default from now on, I would instead recommend to contact previous clients of the artist you wish to commission before you commission them. I'd recommend doing this regardless of how well known the artist is.



> PSS, How long do you typically wait for commissions to be completed? I'm always on the other end where I do commissions for people and give them within several days, longest has been a week or two, but I never know how long it takes in another person's shoes.



My full color pieces can take up to two months, though usually not more than one. Mostly because I have work outside of private commissions as well as Patreon and mentoring so I'm always performing a bit of a balancing act. That said, I always keep my commissioners up to date if something happens and I _always _reply to their messages. It's not just a matter of courtesy, it's good business practice to keep communication swift and open. It builds trust and most people are perfectly willing to wait a little longer if they're kept in the loop.


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## ShinobiDragon (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks for your insight, Caraid! I hoped I was on the right track of thinking with this kind of scenario (since I was never put in this position before) and my actions to this point were things anyone else would do.



Caraid said:


> Having said that, as an artist who has worked hard to build a large audience, the stereotyping of "popufurs" or otherwise equating popularity to arrogance or bad business is a bit unfair. This is NOT normal routine for a professional artist and rather than avoiding "big name" artists by default from now on, I would instead recommend to contact previous clients of the artist you wish to commission before you commission them. I'd recommend doing this regardless of how well known the artist is.



It was sorta wrong for me to put that label on those that have worked their way up to that point in their reputation negatively, like you said. I couldn't figure out the right way to state my thoughts since it was the first time I bought art from someone up there and I sorta lumped everyone together with the bad apples.  My bad. :c

Before this, I never thought of asking other clients about their experience with certain artists I'd consider paying since I rarely buy art, but that will be my thing to consider in the future. Smart thinking.



Caraid said:


> My full color pieces can take up to two months, though usually not more than one. Mostly because I have work outside of private commissions as well as Patreon and mentoring so I'm always performing a bit of a balancing act. That said, I always keep my commissioners up to date if something happens and I _always _reply to their messages. It's not just a matter of courtesy, it's good business practice to keep communication swift and open. It builds trust and most people are perfectly willing to wait a little longer if they're kept in the loop.



That's good to know. I always let my clients know everything as well, and reply to everything to have us both on the same page. Whenever they asked how the work was coming along, I gave the progress practically within a few hours and we go from there. As far as I know, everyone that commissioned me had no problems and were happy to come back.


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## Christian Reese (Jan 20, 2017)

Ouch. That stinks. I hope it gets resolved in someway.


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## DarinNWolf (Jan 20, 2017)

Jeeeez, did you at least file a complaint on him over at Artist Beware (I think that's the name)? That really is a dickish move on the artist's part, but if he has multiple costumers that have ill experiences with him, then definitely write the complaint and possibly get in contact with those same costumers to help write it up with more info and screenshots if they have any.

What was it you paid him to draw?


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## ShinobiDragon (Jan 23, 2017)

Update~
I've sent them yet another private message and days after they gave an update to their clients, saying that they will start on the work asap and didnt due to them being on "Vacation," which is bullshit because that totally doesn't hinder you from talking to your clients for over a year despite your frequent activities of leisure elsewhere.
I've made it clear in my comment in their post to "not forget" and their only response after no attempt of contacting me was a "I am so sorry."

I just don't understand how one could be this careless about those who pay for their service and be so nonchalant about their major absence with an update post and small apologies. But at least they sent me a direct response back. It was a standard pin up commission, nothing big.


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## DarinNWolf (Jan 25, 2017)

ShinobiDragon said:


> Update~
> I've sent them yet another private message and days after they gave an update to their clients, saying that they will start on the work asap and didnt due to them being on "Vacation," which is bullshit because that totally doesn't hinder you from talking to your clients for over a year despite your frequent activities of leisure elsewhere.
> I've made it clear in my comment in their post to "not forget" and their only response after no attempt of contacting me was a "I am so sorry."
> 
> I just don't understand how one could be this careless about those who pay for their service and be so nonchalant about their major absence with an update post and small apologies. But at least they sent me a direct response back. It was a standard pin up commission, nothing big.


Oi, "vacation" huh? Well if you want I could draw ya something, takes me about 3 days or a week to finish stuff


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## Rant (Jan 25, 2017)

I'm having the same problem as you, when I finally do get a response its been excuses and empty promises. It's been 10mos, his friends are trying to push him to finish minecand 15 other commissions but to hell with it. If he can't even talk to me and has his friends deal with me instead then yes I'm going to make an artist beware.


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## ShinobiDragon (Jan 26, 2017)

Rant said:


> I'm having the same problem as you, when I finally do get a response its been excuses and empty promises. It's been 10mos, his friends are trying to push him to finish minecand 15 other commissions but to hell with it. If he can't even talk to me and has his friends deal with me instead then yes I'm going to make an artist beware.



I'm sorry for your experience with whoever that is, and I know it's a pain. Some say to remain patient and I know art takes time, but I say in cases with excuses or no talk at all for months, that exceeds the generous time for patience. I'm at that point too, just fuck it-- And I'm a very patient fellow with flexibility. I'd say add 'em on Artists Beware or just make it known on his most social page by throwing out a "wheeere's my art I paid for 10 months ago?" :T  Regardless of the consequences, it's the principle of the situation.


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