# Can anyone help me with my 'Bojack Horseman' problem?



## JoeStrike (Nov 29, 2016)

As a card-carrying fur, I should _love_ this show - so many people do, it's popular with non-furs and furs alike: a world where humans and anthro animals co-exist... but it depresses me so horribly I can't bear to watch it! Watching neurotic people (and anthros) f*cking up their own and each others' lives makes me really uncomfortable - I have enough of that in my real life.

Okay, here's my _BJ_ problem: as I've posted elsewhere on FAF I'm writing _Furry Nation_, a history of the fandom and a survey of mainstream anthropomorphism in the fine arts and pop culture*... like_ Bojack Horseman. _There's no way I can write the chapter without covering the show.

Can anyone recommend a few episodes I can watch without winding up feeling like I want to slash my wrists? (I have Netflix.) Are there any places online where I can read an overall synopsis, character descriptions, etc, bits of business, so I sound like I know what I'm talking about? For instance, I just read this on the current _BJ_ thread:

_This show addresses SO MUCH of what other shows don't and i LOVE THAT! Most of it is done with comedic affect but i love how they address concepts and questions that no other anthropomorophized character show has; be it food, pets, mating or day-to-day life with prey/predator and human/animal interactions. There are people-sized mosquitos that suck on people's blood when they aren't looking. There's a late night TV variety show with an animal host handling a human child like it was like it were Letterman handling a pigmy marmoset. There are goats that work as landscapers, mowing grass and straight-up eating it. Speaking of eating, there's a chicken farm that raises retarded chickens specifically for food! That's just SO fucked up and yet SO FUNNY!
_
(Some of this sounds similar to Comedy Central's _Ugly Americans _where they had numerous anthro characters_;_ I liked that show because in spite of its dark humour there was still a friendly vibe to it.) I had no idea _BJ _riffed on the animalism of the anthro characters (I only watched the first two episodes of season one, but I've read the show picked up steam later in the first season and then in the next two), but those are the kind of details I need to hit on. Any help will be _profoundly _appreciated - thanx _very_ much!

* www.furrynation.com, to be published fall 2017 by Cleis Press - this is for real


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## Andromedahl (Nov 29, 2016)

Best bet would to probs just read episode an episode synopsis from the wiki or maybe check out A.V. club's episode reviews for the show.

In general tho, in order to really get that real experience, watching stray episodes kinda ruins it, imo. So you're gonna have to be down for getting ready to possibly feel kinda shitty after watching the show in general past the first season. Buuttttt I think A.V. club's stuff might help you out in getting an idea of what episodes are about.


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## JoeStrike (Nov 29, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> Best bet would to probs just read episode an episode synopsis from the wiki or maybe check out A.V. club's episode reviews for the show.
> 
> In general tho, in order to really get that real experience, watching stray episodes kinda ruins it, imo. So you're gonna have to be down for getting ready to possibly feel kinda shitty after watching the show in general past the first season. Buuttttt I think A.V. club's stuff might help you out in getting an idea of what episodes are about.



My other problem is my manuscript is due to the publisher on 12/31! I don't really have time to watch more than a handful of episodes; I will check out the AV Club; the show's Wikipedia pages look like they might be helpful too


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## Andromedahl (Nov 29, 2016)

JoeStrike said:


> I don't really have time to watch more than a handful of episodes;


Just crossed my mind, one episode that probs wouldn't make y'feel awful afterwards that I recommend watching tho is Fish Out of Water in sseason 3. It's primarily a silent episode, and it does its shit pretty well.


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## atmaner (Nov 29, 2016)

I love the show its just I dont remember ep names or nurmals tho some my favorite rps has really said endings I lose it at the  finaly of season 3 tho ...


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## JoeStrike (Nov 30, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> Just crossed my mind, one episode that probs wouldn't make y'feel awful afterwards that I recommend watching tho is Fish Out of Water in sseason 3. It's primarily a silent episode, and it does its shit pretty well.


Time Magazine thinks that ep was the best TV show of the entire year! - http://time.com/4574935/top-10-tv-episodes-2016/ (last entry at the bottom)


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 30, 2016)

Not sure if I can help you with your issue but I will say your entire rant along with you being a furry is suggestive as fuck. Just saying...

If you can handle covering the fetish aspects of the fandom Bojack Horseman shouldn't be an issue.


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## PlusThirtyOne (Dec 1, 2016)

JoeStrike said:


> I'm writing _Furry Nation_



Hey! i wrote that quote!



PlusThirtyOne said:


> Just to be clear, i'm only watching one episode a day (or two, or three) instead of binge watching it. i haven'tread much of the thread to avoid spoilers. i'm only half way through season 2 and i wanted to point something out:
> 
> This show addresses SO MUCH of what other shows don't and i LOVE THAT! Most of it is done with comedic affect but i love how they address concepts and questions that no other anthropomorophized character show has; be it food, pets, mating or day-to-day life with prey/predator and human/animal interactions. There are people-sized mosquitos that suck on people's blood when they aren't looking. There's a late night TV variety show with an animal host handling a human child like it was like it were Letterman handling a pigmy marmoset. There are goats that work as landscapers, mowing grass and straight-up eating it. Speaking of eating, there's a chicken farm that raises retarded chickens specifically for food! That's just SO fucked up and yet SO FUNNY!
> There's so much to see in the backgrounds if you watch it a second time. This show addresses so much more than what a kid's cartoon ever could about anthropomorophic animals. it's so smart...and yet so lovingly stupid. Why would a bird person need to own a car if they can fly? They fly by flapping their human-like arms for shits' sake! it looks so dumb but it's so funny. What do you get if a horse and a deer mate? i'm waiting for them to address what happens if a horse impregnates a human...or a dog and a human...


The show's "too real"-ness is part of why i like it. it's absurdist humor combined with almost-too-human animal characters makes for some very interesting drama. _i totally understand_ where you're coming from on the depressing bit but you're seriously missing out on what is easily THE BEST written show i have watched in a loooooong time. The drama is there to make you feel uncomfortable. The "real"-ness is there to reflect on. The character interaction feels real because the characters are well written. if you gave the show a chance and powered through the first five episodes or so i KNOW you'd feel a little different about the show. By the end of season one you'll be dying to watch the rest.
it gets dark.
it gets "real".
it gets uncomfortable.
This i will admit but _it's supposed to_. it's temporary. The characters grow throughout the show, they learn lessons that stick and they make changes. Unlike your standard talking-animal fiction fare, the show's characters mature; not over night and not by magic but the same way _real_ people grow. Yes, the story has conflict, much like any other fiction you may have seen or read but this kind of conflict isn't solved by a magic wand and nobody lives happily ever after. Characters don't conveniently forget the events of past episodes. They build on those events and grow as self-discovering individuals. Bojack undergoes HUGE character changes the same as a "real" person does; kicking and screaming in denial. it's a hard fought struggle but because of all the hardships, the awkwardness and the uncomfortably "real" feeling story, the resolve tastes that much sweeter!

That's actually what makes the story sooooo damn good!

To truly understand (and therefore, write about) the show and have appreciation for it, _you really need to watch it_. As someone who completely understands and actually feels your discomfort, i promise you the payoff is worth the momentary discomfort.


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## JoeStrike (Dec 1, 2016)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> Hey! i wrote that quote!
> 
> 
> The show's "too real"-ness is part of why i like it. it's absurdist humor combined with almost-too-human animal characters makes for some very interesting drama. _i totally understand_ where you're coming from on the depressing bit but you're seriously missing out on what is easily THE BEST written show i have watched in a loooooong time. The drama is there to make you feel uncomfortable. The "real"-ness is there to reflect on. The character interaction feels real because the characters are well written. if you gave the show a chance and powered through the first five episodes or so i KNOW you'd feel a little different about the show. By the end of season one you'll be dying to watch the rest.
> ...


PlusThirtyOne thank you for filling me in so well on what the show is about. When you say _The characters grow throughout the show, they learn lessons that stick and they make changes _that's the opposite of my initial reaction which was based on just watching the very 1st episode, half of the 2nd & some random episode recaps I chanced to read_. _

I'll definitely have to give it another chance (if only to catch some of the "animal people acting kinda like actual animals" humor); just wish I had time to watch more than a handful - my book's deadline is fast approaching...


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## PlusThirtyOne (Dec 1, 2016)

JoeStrike said:


> my book's deadline is fast approaching...


Well, the parts it sounds like you're looking for are strewn throughout the whole show. if you're looking for background furry jokes and other little details like those i mentioned, you'll literally have to watch the whole thing to find examples. They aren't often plot points or written in continuity; they're background jokes, not front and center. if you want my analysis of the show, its interpretation of "furries" is both literal _*and*_ anthropomorphic. The animal people don't just act like animals and the don't just act like people. Unlike most furry fiction, subjects keep a (often hilarious) balance between species, playing human parts while keeping true to their animal instincts. The backgrounds are the best places to see this because they're used to comedic affect in between scenes, in scene transitions or quietly in the backgrounds to break tension in certain scenes. Sometimes these animal jokes are more subtle. Take for instance the desk of Bojack's agent, "_Princess_" Carolyn . Not only does she have a typical cutesy house-cat name but her work area is strewn with toys and objects associated with...well...house cats. She's a full grown _woman_ and yet she keeps a tiny _scratching post_ and a _fluffy mouse_ on her desk. And when Bojack is hospitalized, he's taken to St. Elmer's Medical Center, a play on Elmer's Glue, which has some interesting implications for unlucky hooved patients. These are jokes that only work in this kind of universe; an animal-people universe that hasn't been explored at this kind of depth. Many of these jokes are only found in repeat viewings. i, myself, didn't even notice Carolyn's desk toys until several episodes in.






Whether you decide to brave the show and watch or not, i recommend Wisecrack's 'Philosophy of Bojack'. i don't know how much detail you want to get into for your book but Bojack's take on life in a furry persons' world is an interesting one. At the very least, there are some visual gags and suggestions you may find in the video. Just a thought.


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## tucakeane (Dec 1, 2016)

I'd recommend the Chickens For Days episode (season 2, episode 5)

It's not as depressing as many episodes can be, but I'm choosing that one because the idea that some characters are human and some characters are animals is often just treated as the norm or as an excuse for animal-based puns. But it's front and center in this episode, where actual chickens have a farm that raise hormone-fed and genetically inferior chickens for the purpose of being eaten, which clears out the "moral grey area" of intraspecies cannibalism as well as satirizing factory farming practices. And it's rare for the show to allow the animals to be explicitly feral. Typically they're still animals and display animal-like behavior from time to time but more-or-less coexist and behave much like people do.

Or the moment when Season 3, Episode 1 where a pigeon is on a balcony to commit suicide but after jumping she flies away, muttering "shoot, forgot I could fly."

Honestly can understand why some people, especially furries, are put off by this show because it can get extremely dark and depressing. But that's why I like it. It doesn't sugarcoat anything. It understands the depressed and neurotic mind better than any show out there. Even if the characters can be unlikable, they're so easy to relate to that you can never really _hate_ any of them. You understand why they do what they do.
And OMG do I love the background meta jokes.


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## JoeStrike (Dec 3, 2016)

PlusThirtyOne said:


> Well, the parts it sounds like you're looking for are strewn throughout the whole show. if you're looking for background furry jokes and other little details like those i mentioned, you'll literally have to watch the whole thing to find examples. They aren't often plot points or written in continuity; they're background jokes, not front and center. if you want my analysis of the show, its interpretation of "furries" is both literal _*and*_ anthropomorphic. The animal people don't just act like animals and the don't just act like people. Unlike most furry fiction, subjects keep a (often hilarious) balance between species, playing human parts while keeping true to their animal instincts. The backgrounds are the best places to see this because they're used to comedic affect in between scenes, in scene transitions or quietly in the backgrounds to break tension in certain scenes. Sometimes these animal jokes are more subtle. Take for instance the desk of Bojack's agent, "_Princess_" Carolyn . Not only does she have a typical cutesy house-cat name but her work area is strewn with toys and objects associated with...well...house cats. She's a full grown _woman_ and yet she keeps a tiny _scratching post_ and a _fluffy mouse_ on her desk. And when Bojack is hospitalized, he's taken to St. Elmer's Medical Center, a play on Elmer's Glue, which has some interesting implications for unlucky hooved patients. These are jokes that only work in this kind of universe; an animal-people universe that hasn't been explored at this kind of depth. Many of these jokes are only found in repeat viewings. i, myself, didn't even notice Carolyn's desk toys until several episodes in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



P31, thanx for getting me over the hump with BJ. (gee, that's two sex double entendres in one sentence.) I watched the "Philosophy Of" video and 2 eps so far ("Our A Story is a D Story" and "After the Party" - just randomly bouncing around.) Between those I get the idea now. I think the thing tht helped me turn the corner was seeing BJ do more than feel sorry for himself - like the Philosophy of, he's trying as hard as he can to do the right thing, even though he has a habit of fucking it up. My initial problem might've been wtaching the 1st episode where BJ is in a bar doing nothing but being hostile & feeling sorry for himself, plus reading lots of synopses & write-ups that made everyone sound wretchedly miserable.

There are just too many anthro puns and gags to even bother trying to list them. ("Well, look what the me dragged in," the books & movie posters in Princess Carolyn's apartment)and lots of laff-out-loud moment ("How can you see so far ahead in the dark?" "I'm an owl;" she flies off; "Now you're just showing off!", etc etc)  The sentiments feel real too, not just pasted on to hit the "poignant" button. I think I have enough of a handle on the show to write about it now, but I definitely want to go back to the beginning and plow my way thru the entire series.


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