# Diqualifications from Possible Moderator List



## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

*Disqualifications from Possible Moderator List*

To prevent anyone else from getting disqualified from derailing the "Forum Moderators Wanted" thread. I hope people will use this thread to discuss their thoughts on the disqualifications. 



Arshes Nei said:


> 1. We're asking for the essay not words of support from other members.
> 2. Do not spam this forum with other stuff





Arshes Nei said:


> Anyone by the way who couldn't follow what I said about applications only after I posted can forget being a moderator. Disqualified.



She did clearly state this and I did not follow it. There were many people who should not be disqualified and I hope they are given another chance. After counting the number of people who have applied, about half have been disqualified.


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## Ty Vulpine (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> To prevent anyone else from getting disqualified from derailing the "Forum Moderators Wanted" thread. I hope people will use this thread to discuss their thoughts on the disqualifications.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While I see her point, I also don't think she had the right to go above Dragoneer (unless she consulted with him prior to posting about DQ'ing people). But, I'm not going to say anything more than that. I knew I had a zero chance of becoming a Mod to begin with, so not really worried about destroying my "chance", and speaking my mind.


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 4, 2008)

If you have an issue with what is going, I think the best thing you can do is contact Dragonner himself and voice your thoughts, opinions, and concerns.


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## Xero108 (Dec 4, 2008)

Dragonner will log in soon and we'll see what he has to say about this. I can only cross my fingers that nobody's disqualified. It would be quite a shame. I just looked over the applications and here is who's still in and who's out:

*out*

Devious Bane
Hydramon
TyVulpine
Silibus
Aden
Emil
Xaerun
Irrevent
Takumi_L
TheGreatCrusader
Easog
Half-witted fur
Furcity
Shenzi
Xero108
NAFFY
AlexX
TwilightV

*Still in the run*

Nylak
Grimfang
Newfdraggie
Shark_The_Raptor
Xiath
Warmock
Surgat
Renton Whitetail
Kangaroo Boy
Trpdwarf
Michaelolnet
Phoenix
Quiet269
The Good Shepard

That's still quite a load and there are a lot of good members in there, but if most of us are really disqualified, I'm wishing luck to those left in the run


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## Ty Vulpine (Dec 4, 2008)

I honestly don't see how Dragoneer could allow another Admin to undermine him like that. Heck, Arshes even deleted some of Dragoneer's posts, calling it spam! Sorry, but who's in charge again, Arshes or Dragoneer?


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## Aden (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> She did clearly state this and I did not follow it.



Well, that's kinda the thing. _She_ stated it, and then she went on to enforce her statement. However, choosing the mods would be, I assume, a collaboration between _all_ of the current administration.

SO.

What do the rest of the mods think of this latest episode of FAF dramaz?



Xero108 said:


> *out*
> Aden



Nah, I withdrew anyway.


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

While I do agree discussions were getting a tad off-topic, I think that DQ-ing people just for posting with no regard to their post's(s') content is a bit much. A lot of people were disqualified despite trying to push the topic back to the main subject after previous de-railment, and others were either making or answering questions about the subject. Is it really fair to punish them the same way as people who were legitimately de-railing the topic?


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## Xero108 (Dec 4, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> I honestly don't see how Dragoneer could allow another Admin to undermine him like that. Heck, Arshes even deleted some of Dragoneer's posts, calling it spam! Sorry, but who's in charge again, Arshes or Dragoneer?



Well they are both admins of the forum, so technically, they're both in charge. And I did spam along with Dragoneer about bread and butter before Arshes said that the thread was only for applications. So I can see why she deleted his post along with mine there. 

Afterwards, I did avoid going off-topic but in the end, it doesn't change a thing it seems...



Aden said:


> Nah, I withdrew anyway.



I know.


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## Ty Vulpine (Dec 4, 2008)

Xero108 said:


> Well they are both admins of the forum, so technically, they're both in charge. And I did spam along with Dragoneer about bread and butter before Arshes said that the thread was only for applications. So I can see why she deleted his post along with mine there.



But still, you shouldn't go and delete your boss's posts, calling it spam. That's a surefire way to get canned. Nor change his topic rules, without permission.


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## Xero108 (Dec 4, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> But still, you shouldn't go and delete your boss's posts, calling it spam. That's a surefire way to get canned. Nor change his topic rules, without permission.



I've seen admin posts being deleted in other forums and I deleted some myself. When the post is completely off-topic, I believe that no matter who it is, it has to be deleted. I mean nobody's perfect and holy on the internet. 

And besides...It didn't seem to bother Dragoneer much because Arshes is still an admin, so I don't see why we should insist on that point.



TyVulpine said:


> Nor change his topic rules, without permission.



Without agreement and permission, no. But like I said, we'll see what Dragoneer has to say about it when he gets on.


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## Irreverent (Dec 4, 2008)

Trpdwarf said:


> If you have an issue with what is going, I think the best thing you can do is contact Dragonner himself and voice your thoughts, opinions, and concerns.



Sage advice.  I've PM'd Dragoneer and expressed my concerns.  Really, I have nothing to lose.  And at the end of the day, life is too short anyway.



TyVulpine said:


> But still, you shouldn't go and delete your boss's posts, calling it spam. That's a surefire way to get canned. Nor change his topic rules, without permission.



On any board that I've ever run.  And while I agree with Xero108, there are chain of command issues.  The Admin is the owner....his site, his rules, his house.  Only the owner gets to break the rules. Co-admins and supermods are just individuals with enhanced moderation and administration privileges.  They serve at the pleasure of the owner.


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> But still, you shouldn't go and delete your boss's posts, calling it spam. That's a surefire way to get canned. Nor change his topic rules, without permission.


Even the root admin shouldn't be spamming, but I do agree that it wouldn't have been too hard to ask him to include "No discussions, please. Only applications." in the first post.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

My largest problem was discussing ideas about FAF.


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## Irreverent (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> My largest problem was discussing ideas about FAF.



All things considered, I thought the peer reviews and discussions around the limiting of mods powers to be constructive.


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

Im rather curious as to why she didnt delete all those posts earlier. The thread had about a 3 day period where nobody posted at all, until this morning when two people posted. She then nuked just about every post back to her own post. Its not like she wasnt here for all that time, and hadnt seen the thread.


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## Grimfang (Dec 4, 2008)

She did state pretty clearly that only app's were wanted, and not discussion. The best way to go about that is to either post an application, or don't. Otherwise, it becomes one of those situations where people are shushing at other shushing people, heh.

Although this thread is useful, it probably could've been useful beforehand.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

Grimfang said:


> She did state pretty clearly that only app's were wanted, and not discussion. The best way to go about that is to either post an application, or don't. Otherwise, it becomes one of those situations where people are shushing at other shushing people, heh.
> 
> Although this thread is useful, it probably could've been useful beforehand.


Im sorry. I am to blame about that. If I thought about it beforehand, many people could have still been on the list.


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

Grimfang said:


> She did state pretty clearly that only app's were wanted, and not discussion.


Then why didn't she just ask Dragoneer to add a note in the first post that discussion wasn't allowed?


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

Grimfang said:


> Otherwise, it becomes one of those situations where people are shushing at other shushing people, heh.



But people were actually shushed. Like I said, posting had died for 3 days.


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## Grimfang (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Im sorry. I am to blame about that. If I thought about it beforehand, many people could have still been on the list.



It's not anyone's fault. Anyone could've made this thread. I could have. I just decided to stay out of it all.



AlexX said:


> Then why didn't she just ask Dragoneer to add a note in the first post that discussion wasn't allowed?



She went ahead and posted a warning herself. People ignored it.



Emil said:


> But people were actually shushed. Like I said, posting had died for 3 days.



Timeframe aside, I guess the point is that people are applying to be mods, and derailing the application thread in the process. It may have been topic-related, but it was asked that only app's show up.

Anyway.. this is all just the way I see it. I can't answer for them.


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## Irreverent (Dec 4, 2008)

Emil said:


> But people were actually shushed. Like I said, posting had died for 3 days.



Definitely a chill.

If they didn't want open dialog, they should have stickied and locked the thread, inviting private responses, like a real world job canvas.


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

Grimfang said:


> She went ahead and posted a warning herself. People ignored it.



Some of us were trying to get the thread back on topic, and we ended up getting punished for basically being responsible users and "moding" the thread. And it had actually worked!



Irreverent said:


> Definitely a chill.
> 
> If they didn't want open dialog, they should have stickied and locked the thread, inviting private responses, like a real world job canvas.



I understand that, Im just saying that, in the end, everybody decided on their own to actually respect what she wanted and stop posting. So what she did was entirely unnecessary anyway =\


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## Nylak (Dec 4, 2008)

A real world job canvas?  On my FAF?

It was probably a preconceived trap.  >_>

Told myself I'd stay out of this, but I do agree with most of what's being said.  Won't bother restating it, though.


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## Surgat (Dec 4, 2008)

Maybe she discussed her actions and policy privately with Dragoneer? 

By this time he's definitely seen his deleted posts, and Arshes Nei still has moderator status. If somehow he hasn't approved of the disqualifications, it wouldn't matter in reviewing applications anyways.


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

Grimfang said:


> She went ahead and posted a warning herself. People ignored it.


Why wasn't it added to the first post, though? In a thread like that, the first post is the most important because it explains the rules the rest of the topic is to abide by. If no discussions was that important, why wasn't it mentioned in the rules?

Furthermore, some people were asking legitimate questions on the subject. Others were trying to help by answering. Their posts weren't simple chatting, they were all relevant to the topic at hand and possibly helped some of the applicants get clarification on whatever they wanted to know before posting their application.



> Timeframe aside, I guess the point is that people are applying to be mods, and derailing the application thread in the process. It may have been topic-related, but it was asked that only app's show up.


But that's the thing, a large amount of the posts in the thread were legitimately related to the main topic. I can understand de-railing posts getting the applicants disqualified, but I don't see why questions and answers releated to the main topic should be punished equally.


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## Dark Crusader Fox (Dec 4, 2008)

Why am I not listed? I applied.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Why wasn't it added to the first post, though? In a thread like that, the first post is the most important because it explains the rules the rest of the topic is to abide by. If no discussions was that important, why wasn't it mentioned in the rules?
> 
> Furthermore, some people were asking legitimate questions on the subject. Others were trying to help by answering. Their posts weren't simple chatting, they were all relevant to the topic at hand and possibly helped some of the applicants get clarification on whatever they wanted to know before posting their application.


Predictable response from a staff member would be: "If you couldnt put it in your application it isnt needed" and "There are other threads for such discussion"


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## TwilightV (Dec 4, 2008)

Hey, whatever. As long as a certain someone is NEVER on that list, i'm fine. Rooting for Nylak, BTW.


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 4, 2008)

Xero108 said:


> Dragonner will log in soon and we'll see what he has to say about this. I can only cross my fingers that nobody's disqualified. It would be quite a shame. I just looked over the applications and here is who's still in and who's out:
> 
> *out*
> 
> ...


Where the hell am I in this?


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> Where the hell am I in this?



Youre disqualified


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Predictable response from a staff member would be: "If you couldnt put it in your application it isnt needed" and "There are other threads for such discussion"


Then why not just lock it when Dragoneer announced the applications were closed? If there wasn't supposed to be any discussion, they would not need the topic anymore at that point.


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## Dark Crusader Fox (Dec 4, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> Where the hell am I in this?



She deleted my application!!! Hey! What the hell! I took time typing that and she blasts it and now I'm not even in!?!?


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

AlexX said:


> Then why not just lock it when Dragoneer announced the applications were closed? If there wasn't supposed to be any discussion, they would not need the topic anymore at that point.



Applications were never really closed. He just said theyd be reviewing applications soon.


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 4, 2008)

Dark Crusader Fox said:


> She deleted my application!!! Hey! What the hell! I took time typing that and she blasts it and now I'm not even in!?!?


I spent an hour of typing and reciting a speech just for it to be deleted.
Retarded.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

Dark Crusader Fox said:


> Why am I not listed? I applied.





StainMcGorver said:


> Where the hell am I in this?


Both applications were mixed in with the deleted posts. 

Edit: Ninja'd


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## Dark Crusader Fox (Dec 4, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> I spent an hour of typing and practicing a speech just for it to be deleted.
> Retarded.



Hell yeah man! Why blast us? Notice we were the only ones deleted. >> Seriously this ticks me off.


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 4, 2008)

^ You, you're awesome.
I should reward you. With a drawing. As soon as I get paper (and I get Shenzi's.)



Silibus said:


> Both applications were mixed in with the deleted posts.


Correct. I PMed her and asked for my application back if not a reason why it was deleted. (Because the only post I had was that I agreed on people to not talk)
Two hours later? No response.


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

Emil said:


> Applications were never really closed. He just said theyd be reviewing applications soon.


The applications were open a week before then and a decent amount of people applied. I think that's a reasonable timeframe for people to apply to such a topic, especially when the application essay is only a mere 250 words.


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

AlexX said:


> The applications were open a week before then and a decent amount of people applied. I think that's a reasonable timeframe for people to apply to such a topic, especially when the application essay is only a mere 250 words.



Still doesnt change the fact that nobody ever officially closed them ^^;


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> Correct. I PMed her and asked for my application back if not a reason why it was deleted. (Because the only post I had was that I agreed on people to not talk)
> Two hours later? No response.


I PMed her when she was still on, asking her if some applicants could be given another chance. I received no response.


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 4, 2008)

Also, I'm really sorry for bumping the Application thread, asking Neer if he was reviewing them yet.
That's what caused every single post to get deleted.

Again, sorry.


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> I PMed her when she was still on, asking her if some applicants could be given another chance. I received no response.



I pmed her asking why applicants who were trying to put the thread back on topic were disqualified. No response.



> Also, I'm really sorry for bumping the Application thread, asking Neer if he was reviewing them yet.
> That's what caused every single post to get deleted.
> 
> Again, sorry.



So its YOUR fault! GET HIM GUYS!!! D=


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## AlexX (Dec 4, 2008)

Emil said:


> Still doesnt change the fact that nobody ever officially closed them ^^;


Fair enough, but I do think he'd have mentioned if he didn't like the discussions that were going on at the time. Not too hard to add a simple "Hey guys, let's keep this topic free of everything but applications, 'kay?" at the end of the post.


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## TwilightV (Dec 4, 2008)

The Boss is logged in for anyone who hasn't noticed...


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

> *Apology*
> Hello Ms. Arshes Nei,
> 
> I am here to apologize about my conduct on the "Forum Moderators Wanted" thread. I realize that I did stray off topic in the thread and my discussion was better suited to being in the "Official Suggestion" forum. From what you said on the thread, "_Anyone by the way who couldn't follow what I said about applications only after I posted can forget being a moderator. Disqualified._" you have removed about half of the people who have applied. I am not asking to be put back on the list, but I am asking if you could please reconsider a few of the applicants. (Ones that were possibly removed)
> ...


^ This is exactly what I sent her.


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## Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (Dec 4, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* Nylak was too late with her application. Shame that D:


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks, Silibus. I appreciate you at least giving us a chance


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## Nylak (Dec 4, 2008)

TwilightV said:


> The Boss is logged in for anyone who hasn't noticed...


Quick, everybody hide!



Easog said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* Nylak was too late with her application. Shame that D:


Pretty sure I was.  Let's be honest, it's for the best.  >__>;


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## Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> ^ This is exactly what I sent her.


It's out of regular users' hands now :V

In before this thread is locked/deleted.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> Thanks, Silibus. I appreciate you at least giving us a chance


There is no reason to thank me. She did have reasoning, but most people were only trying to help and/or discuss possibilities. 


Easog said:


> It's out of regular users' hands now :V
> 
> In before this thread is locked/deleted.


I dont see why this thread should be locked or deleted, unless the Moderators hate open opinion.

If it does, so be it. *Shrug*


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## Dyluck (Dec 4, 2008)

Mods = Fags who's with me

roh roh fight the powah


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

David M. Awesome said:


> Mods = Fags who's with me
> 
> roh roh fight the powah


Yet you applied.


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## Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (Dec 4, 2008)

It was one damn serious application too @_@


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## TwilightV (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Yet you applied.



I <3 facepalming!


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## Dragoneer (Dec 4, 2008)

I am aware, fret not.


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## Dyluck (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Yet you applied.



Did you read my application

PS: Suck my dick


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 4, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I am aware, fret not.


Thank you for your time.


David M. Awesome said:


> Did you read my application
> 
> PS: Suck my dick


I did read it, and it still counts.

PS: No


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## Emil (Dec 4, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I am aware, fret not.



Thank you very much ^^


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## Dyluck (Dec 4, 2008)

Silibus said:


> I did read it, and it still counts.
> 
> PS: No



I don't know how that counts :|

Not like it matters because I'm a fag!






PS: Please?


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 5, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I am aware, fret not.



Thank you for being aware. It is much appreciated.


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## Dark Crusader Fox (Dec 5, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I am aware, fret not.



Thankies dragoneer  Please get mah application back. lol


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 5, 2008)

Same, it really pisses me off when some random person decides that discussing is not allowed and everyone who did is disqualified.


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## Aden (Dec 5, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I am aware, fret not.



Sooooo, what's going on with this whole clusterfuck?


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## Rilvor (Dec 5, 2008)

Over reacting makes me lol

Admins can be better trolls than the trolls themselves XD


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 5, 2008)

Dark Crusader Fox said:


> Thankies dragoneer  Please get mah application back. lol



Just yours? Personally I feel every single one should be reinstated. That's just my opinion though.

EDIT: The reason I feel that way is that if people are going to be disqualified it should be based on something that is in the first post. Such as, word count is wrong...something like that.


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## Dark Crusader Fox (Dec 5, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> Same, it really pisses me off when some random person decides that discussing is not allowed and everyone who did is disqualified.



Also in reply to the other reply you gave me, I love you to. And I would love to be drawn lol. *hugs*


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## Xaerun (Dec 5, 2008)

<Post removed by me>


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## jayhusky (Dec 5, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I am aware, fret not.



Thanks Dragoneer!



			
				Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Anyone by the way who couldn't follow what I said about applications only after I posted can forget being a moderator. Disqualified.



How the hell are we supposed to  know that Arshes posted i it didn't show on our subscribed threads?

Also come on Arshes I was just thanking Dragoneer for acknowledging the applications and the fact he was giving us a note about reveiwing and what-not


However Since Dragoneer is the owner of this site and Ferrox Art LLC then I do believe it is his choice as to who is auto-disqualified and who is still allowed to run for Mod. Besides it's a joint choice between the Staff not just 1  or 2 members..


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## yak (Dec 5, 2008)

*shakes head* This is turning out to be a lot sillier then it needs, or needed to.

We just wanted some mods, but now we have a home grown finger pointing competition and people who are trying to think for others; "he says she says" remarks, "Vote Dragoneer for the president" and a whole lot of "srs bsns" going around such a trivial thing as choosing a few mods from a list of people judging by their past history and a "CV" like application.

Ugh, I don't know... Still can't quite see how this ended up this way.


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## TakeWalker (Dec 5, 2008)

yak said:


> Ugh, I don't know... Still can't quite see how this ended up this way.



Furries were involved.


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## Quiet269 (Dec 5, 2008)

lmao @ cry babies.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Let's address this:

While Dragoneer is in charge is he going to take the time to train the admins for forum moderators? No that will actually be me and other moderators. 

He said a few days but I don't recall *any* discussion with him and the the other moderators when the cut off time was. So it was left open in case anyone has missed it.

Dragoneer had no problem with me deleting his posts he said it was spam. 

I gave a warning, that it was for applications only.

I think if anything it's a great test, how well can you follow instructions.

Scenario: a lot of applicants come in asking for a job application. Job application clearly says "For Office use only do not write below the line" So, any of you who wrote the below the line can't follow the simple instructions and mess up the application.

The applications only warning was so that other members of staff can easily read the applications, not go through 3 pages of banter and spam. We want to see how well people can read because you're going to moderate the forums. Human error is going to happen but if you simply ignore a warning and jump on anything it makes it more difficult not everyone is going to be chosen as a moderator and how many of you will be brought on to moderate?

Yeah people I liked or considered would make a good mod got DQ'd over their indiscretion to follow instructions, but that's how it is.


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## Verin Asper (Dec 5, 2008)

then I guess its no point for me to try my hand and put in my application *sips tea*


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Scenario: a lot of applicants come in asking for a job application. Job application clearly says "For Office use only do not write below the line" So, any of you who wrote the below the line can't follow the simple instructions and mess up the application.



Ive gotten jobs where I had switched up the last name and first name on the application. I dont understand how that has any real bearing on whether or not someone can do the job well or not.

And that doesnt help the members who were telling people to shut up *because* the thread was for applications only. You can say that it only added to the mess you would have had to sort through, but those efforts actually got posting to cease. Youre punishing users for effectively self moderating. For doing what responsible users should be doing anyway.


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## Xipoid (Dec 5, 2008)

Good Christ. I leave for a day and miss everything.


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## Gavrill (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm actually kind of relieved I won't be a mod. It'd be waayyy too boring.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Xipoid said:


> Good Christ. I leave for a day and miss everything.



Indeed you have. I think the amount of whining from people who got DQ'd may actually be proving my point. It shouldn't be such a serious thing, it was simple instructions. Now they're upset they couldn't follow simple instructions? Now it's "that serious", shows too much of an emotional attachment and can cause future problems in my opinion.


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## AlexX (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Indeed you have. I think the amount of whining from people who got DQ'd may actually be proving my point. It shouldn't be such a serious thing, it was simple instructions. Now they're upset they couldn't follow simple instructions? Now it's "that serious", shows too much of an emotional attachment and can cause future problems in my opinion.


There's a difference between emotional attachment and what is reasonable, though. There were people who were only trying to help in that topic, and they were punished the same as those legitimately trying to detail it. The things I've been saying haven't haven't had anything to do with my application having been rejected, and I guarantee I'd be saying the exact same things if I hadn't been. If saying them would have led to my application being rejected anyways, then so be it, because that's just who I am and I'd rather be consistent than live a sort of double-life.


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think the amount of whining from people who got DQ'd may actually be proving my point. It shouldn't be such a serious thing, it was simple instructions. Now they're upset they couldn't follow simple instructions? Now it's "that serious", shows too much of an emotional attachment and can cause future problems in my opinion.



All I want is for someone to actually address my concerns, as opposed to saying Im whining and then blowing me off.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

AlexX said:


> There's a difference between emotional attachment and what is reasonable, though. There were people who were only trying to help in that topic, and they were punished the same as those legitimately trying to detail it. The things I've been saying haven't haven't had anything to do with my application having been rejected, and I guarantee I'd be saying the exact same things if I hadn't been. If saying them would have led to my application being rejected anyways, then so be it, because that's just who I am and I'd rather be consistent than live a sort of double-life.



How is it helpful to reply in a thread that was clearly stated applications only? No one needs to step in and tell someone else to shut up, the post is there, one only need to read the warning. Other people were able to follow that and are now being considered. If they're angry they only have themselves to blame. It wasn't sole deciding factor but actually the candidates who ironically are being the most considered were also the ones who followed the instructions. So more points for them.

Like I said, it's most likely I'm going to be the one doing the forum training. I want people able to read the instructions.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> All I want is for someone to actually address my concerns, as opposed to saying Im whining and then blowing me off.



Your concerns have been addressed, you didn't behave properly in your reply to me anyways. How serious can I take you when you've shown behavior that makes me consider stability of the person to work under stress?


----------



## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> How is it helpful to reply in a thread that was clearly stated applications only? No one needs to step in and tell someone else to shut up, the post is there, one only need to read the warning. Other people were able to follow that and are now being considered. If they're angry they only have themselves to blame. It wasn't sole deciding factor but actually the candidates who ironically are being the most considered were also the ones who followed the instructions. So more points for them.



So, I take it you dont like it when people report violations either? After all, the rules are already posted, and the admins are fully capable of taking care of everything themselves then. Im sorry, but a good user is obligated to put a derailed thread back on track in the same way they are obligated to report a violation. In my opinion, that is.



> like I said, it's most likely I'm going to be the one doing the forum training. I want people able to read the instructions.



Your posts state alot about *your* opinion. It makes me feel like you didnt consult anyone else ,who are part of making the decision, about your actions. Your posts make me think you just acted on your own on the assumption "well, Im gonna have to do all the work, so its my business"



> Your concerns have been addressed, you didn't behave properly in your reply to me anyways. How serious can I take you when you've shown behavior that makes me consider stability of the person to work under stress?



It didnt? Are you talking about my PM to you, which I appologized for, or the very legitimate question I asked in the thread which you near instantly deleted?


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> So, I take it you dont like it when people report violations either? After all, the rules are already posted, and the admins are fully capable of taking care of everything themselves then. Im sorry, but a good user is obligated to put a derailed thread back on track in the same way they are obligated to report a violation. In my opinion, that is.



Using the report button would have been the *right* way to approach it.

In addition, and thinking about this response carefully. How do you think arguing with me right now could affect candidacy for moderating?


----------



## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Using the report button would have been the *right* way to approach it.



I can only report things that are site violations.

And even if I had, it still took you three days to delete all the posts in the thread, despite having been on the forums during that time. Id like to hope you would have at least glanced at the application thread, since it is somewhat important. So, even if I did report it, it seems nothing would have happened anyway, and there would probably be even MORE posts there.

*edit*



> In addition, and thinking about this response carefully. How do you think arguing with me right now could affect candidacy for moderating?



It certainly wont get me support from you, but if I can show some of the other people that you actions were impulsive and unjust, then maybe I can swing them my way. 

Id at least like the chance of being able to give something back to the community. I dont have any money to donate, but what I do have is my time and passion. Is it wrong of me to be upset when I feel like I have been unjustly robbed of that chance? Is it wrong of me to want a real explanation?

Im somewhat concerned that you seem to be implying that Im not allowed to disagree with you, or fight for myself when I feel I have been maligned.


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## AlexX (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> How is it helpful to reply in a thread that was clearly stated applications only? No one needs to step in and tell someone else to shut up, the post is there, one only need to read the warning. Other people were able to follow that and are now being considered. If they're angry they only have themselves to blame. It wasn't sole deciding factor but actually the candidates who ironically are being the most considered were also the ones who followed the instructions. So more points for them.


That's part of the problem, though... It wasn't clearly stated in the OP and some people were asking questions before posting their applications to be sure they had everything straight. As such, I think things like this can be avoided in the future by making the OP more clear on whether or not discussion is allowed and possibly even creating a separate topic for questions, rather than a vague first post and not giving any other place to talk about it (and since most regular users will hesitate to make one of their own due to the topic being staff-related, thus, thinking they don't have the authority to do so).


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

AlexX said:


> That's part of the problem, though... It wasn't clearly stated in the OP and some people were asking questions before posting their applications to be sure they had everything straight. As such, I think things like this can be avoided in the future by making the OP more clear on whether or not discussion is allowed and possibly even creating a separate topic for questions, rather than a vague first post and not giving any other place to talk about it (and since most regular users will hesitate to make one of their own due to the topic being staff-related, thus, thinking they don't have the authority to do so).



That actually wasn't my idea to post the way it was we were barely asked, it was more unfortunately done on impulse rather than having a better plan.

Just that if I did this I would have organized this in a much different way to be very straight forward with you instead of making it the usual circus.

I would have put in place a forum where only the poster and staff can see a person's post for an application. If the poster had questions we'd address them there. and it wouldn't have other people jumping in to talk about another person's post unless it were staff.

Like I said people who I like or think would be good also got DQ'd by not listening. So there isn't a play on favorites.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 5, 2008)

yak said:


> *shakes head* This is turning out to be a lot sillier then it needs, or needed to.
> 
> We just wanted some mods, but now we have a home grown finger pointing competition and people who are trying to think for others





Quiet269 said:


> lmao @ cry babies.


Thats not what I intended to happen, but it is. 


Arshes Nei said:


> Let's address this:
> 
> While Dragoneer is in charge is he going to take the time to train the admins for forum moderators? No that will actually be me and other moderators.
> 
> ...


Everyone makes mistakes and there seems to be a lack of communication.


> I gave a warning, that it was for applications only.
> 
> I think if anything it's a great test, how well can you follow instructions.


This is true, a moderator is supposed to follow the rules. Even if I see mods break them.


> The applications only warning was so that other members of staff can easily read the applications, not go through 3 pages of banter and spam. We want to see how well people can read because you're going to moderate the forums. Human error is going to happen but if you simply ignore a warning and jump on anything it makes it more difficult not everyone is going to be chosen as a moderator and how many of you will be brought on to moderate?
> 
> Yeah people I liked or considered would make a good mod got DQ'd over their indiscretion to follow instructions, but that's how it is.


Understandable. In my opinion we do have plenty of moderators already, if only they would contribute more. (The active mods I see often: Dragoneer, Arrow Tibbs, Arshes Nei, Net-Cat, Ahkahna, Yak, Damaratus)​


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## AlexX (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> That actually wasn't my idea to post the way it was we were barely asked, it was more unfortunately done on impulse rather than having a better plan.


Then that's where the root of the problem came from. Something like this can't really be done on impulse like that, otherwise you get... well... what happened here.



> Just that if I did this I would have organized this in a much different way to be very straight forward with you instead of making it the usual circus.
> 
> I would have put in place a forum where only the poster and staff can see a person's post for an application. If the poster had questions we'd address them there. and it wouldn't have other people jumping in to talk about another person's post unless it were staff.


I do agree this would have been a much better way to go about it.



> Like I said people who I like or think would be good also got DQ'd by not listening. So there isn't a play on favorites.


I didn't think there was.

To keep the discussion here and not further de-rail that R&R discussion, I'll continue it here by saying that I don't think willingness to debate is necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes the easiest way to learn about something you don't understand is to debate it and listen to the other side. Likewise, rules are not always clear-cut, so being able to go over the pros and cons could be beneficial if a mod has to discuss whether or not a rule has been broken, or what kind of punishment should be done for an infraction.


----------



## Enigmaticat (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Indeed you have. I think the amount of whining from people who got DQ'd may actually be proving my point. It shouldn't be such a serious thing, it was simple instructions. Now they're upset they couldn't follow simple instructions? Now it's "that serious", shows too much of an emotional attachment and can cause future problems in my opinion.


I do not believe I am whining. I understand why I have disqualified and I accept the fact. It is probably for the best.

Edit: I'll limit my input on this. AlexX has everything covered.


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## Eevee (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> I can only report things that are site violations.


what

<-


----------



## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Eevee said:


> what
> 
> <-



Im not saying I *couldnt* report or that I dont know how to, Im saying that there was nothing I had the grounds to report. If my use of the word "site" was confusing, I apologize. I was referring to forums.

*edit*

I couldnt report the majority of the posts, because there were no rules violations. Id have a hard time considering posts that are related to the topic spam. Posts such as Dragoneers, which were image macros and the like are spam. So they should have been, and were deleted.

However, the derailing of the thread I couldnt report, due to the wording of the forum rules.



> NO
> 
> * Harassment, Trolling or other Malicious Behavior (this includes swearing at other users).
> * Spam (posts or threads).
> ...



Its hard for me to find posts that have to do with the topic as destructive derailment. To me, destructive derailment is something along the lines of "this thread is now about pudding" or "so how bout them cowboys?" It seems more like topic drift, which the rules state is ok. 

This is only reinforced in my mind by the report page itself



> Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.




It doesnt have anything about thread derailment there at all. I just failed to see where I had any grounds to report these posts.


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## Armaetus (Dec 5, 2008)

Dark Crusader Fox said:


> She deleted my application!!! Hey! What the hell! I took time typing that and she blasts it and now I'm not even in!?!?



I'm pretty sure who they know who you are through IP matching, behavior and typing skills. 

And to all others bitching because they lost an hour's worth of typing their mod application: Next time *TYPE IT OUT* in a text file, save it and bring it up when needed!


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> It doesnt have anything about thread derailment there at all. I just failed to see where I had any grounds to report these posts.



You realize this is all nitpicking excuses trying to earn you non existent wiggle room correct?

The report button was there, people were off topic after I was specific, and you could have used it. End of story. Considering a few mods were chosen you're pretty high in the belief that you were the top dog to be chosen. You could be DQ'd for any other number of reasons too.


----------



## jayhusky (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I gave a warning, that it was for applications only.
> 
> I think if anything it's a great test, how well can you follow instructions.
> 
> Scenario: a lot of applicants come in asking for a job application. Job application clearly says "For Office use only do not write below the line" So, any of you who wrote the below the line can't follow the simple instructions and mess up the application.



Alright so a majority of us "messed" the application! Big Whup!
Theres bound to be some silly sod who was gonna do it.

But Arshes what do you want us to do? Barrage Dragoneer with fucktons of PMs saying thanks for the update or do you want to give us a little Discussion thread as a side line actually linked in from the Applications thread?Its not like any of us intentionally went for disqaulification, anyway in a normal workplace and granted a forum is akin to a workplace there is a systematic democracy of a:



Verbal Warning ( Granted to be a little hard over the internet)
Written Warning
Suspension (Temp Ban)
Exclusion (Permaban)

It seems to me that Arshes has jumped from the Verbal warning to the Permaban Ideal.!

*DID Dragoneer approve this?*

I don't intend this to be a rant but it seems a small dose of judgement could have been administered before jumping to disqualify a vast Majority of the candidates.

As for me, if i dont get re-instated then fine, but I stand behind NewfDraggie if he gets through.


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## Verin Asper (Dec 5, 2008)

mrchris said:


> I'm pretty sure who they know who you are through IP matching, behavior and typing skills.
> 
> And to all others bitching because they lost an hour's worth of typing their mod application: Next time *TYPE IT OUT* in a text file, save it and bring it up when needed!


yea thats what I do, just constantly update it


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

furcity said:


> It seems to me that Arshes has jumped from the Verbal warning to the Permaban Ideal.!



Not a comparison because this is an application, not if you're being banned from the Forums. All you had to do was follow the instructions. But if you guys again want to keep arguing, I'll ask you again do you think you're helping your case at all? Usually the more argumentative people want to be rather than proposing solutions the less a person wants to work with that person.

Again, what makes you think you were even in the top spots of choices?


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## Armaetus (Dec 5, 2008)

I doubt that the staff would choose previously banned (Rilvor) or lulzy/-chan type (D. M. Awesome, etc) users to be a mod. Who knows what sort of chaos these types of people can do if a regular user pisses them or something.

As I remember, normal mods can only lock and delete posts...right? Only supermods, staff and administrators can ban.


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> You realize this is all nitpicking excuses trying to earn you non existent wiggle room correct?



Im only following site rules. Sorry if doing that is considered "wiggle room"



> The report button was there, people were off topic after I was specific, and you could have used it. End of story.



Irrelevant. They didnt break any site rules, so I cant report them. Especially since, natural thread topic change is *allowed* under site rules. Youre expecting me to report people, based on nothing but your whim.



> Considering a few mods were chosen you're pretty high in the belief that you were the top dog to be chosen. You could be DQ'd for any other number of reasons too.



And your also assuming that I think I actually would have been picked to be mod. I actually, dont. But Id like to at least  be given a fair chance, same as everyone else, instead of being run out unfairly, for being a responsible user of the site.

Youre punishing users for doing what they would do if they were mods. Youre giving no one on this forum any incentive whatsoever to be constructive or helpful. I and several others tried to be, and succeeded, and now we're paying the penalty.


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## jayhusky (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not a comparison because this is an application, not if you're being banned from the Forums. All you had to do was follow the instructions. But if you guys again want to keep arguing, I'll ask you again do you think you're helping your case at all? Usually the more argumentative people want to be rather than proposing solutions the less a person wants to work with that person.
> 
> Again, what makes you think you were even in the top spots of choices?



Ok fine...

Look I think that all people should be given one warning then busted for it.. ok and before you say it your post of "please keep on topic" or to the like did not appear on my screen until after i posted.

Also I dont particularly care as to if i was or wasn't.

*But you didn't answer the question!!!!*


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## Verin Asper (Dec 5, 2008)

*realize the only eating popcorn redoing his mod application*
I think 1000 words are over kill..yes?


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 5, 2008)

mrchris said:


> I doubt that the staff would choose previously banned (Rilvor) or lulzy/-chan type (D. M. Awesome, etc) users to be a mod. Who knows what sort of chaos these types of people can do if a regular user pisses them or something.
> 
> As I remember, normal mods can only lock and delete posts...right? Only supermods, staff and administrators can ban.


I did notice lots of joke-applications as well. That also may be the reason choosing moderators is taking a while. Background checks are hard over the net.



Arshes Nei said:


> Not a comparison because this is an application, not if you're being banned from the Forums. All you had to do was follow the instructions. But if you guys again want to keep arguing, I'll ask you again do you think you're helping your case at all? Usually the more argumentative people want to be rather than proposing solutions the less a person wants to work with that person.
> 
> Again, what makes you think you were even in the top spots of choices?


Arguing about this gets us nowhere. Plus there is no "case" from what I see. I may be disqualified but it doesnt mean I still cant do good for the forums.


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## Rilvor (Dec 5, 2008)

Silibus said:


> I did notice lots of joke-applications as well. That also may be the reason choosing moderators is taking a while. Background checks are hard over the net.



I feel sorry for anyone that took my application seriously.

I'll pass on the job where you must wear a shit-eating grin to what amounts to a forum filled with brats.


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## Verin Asper (Dec 5, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> I feel sorry for anyone that took my application seriously.
> 
> I'll pass on the job where you must wear a shit-eating grin to what amounts to a forum filled with brats.


all forums have their brats, I just wear a mask that has a Shit eating grin on it when I'm a mod


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## Rilvor (Dec 5, 2008)

Desume Crysis Kaiser said:


> all forums have their brats, I just wear a mask that has a Shit eating grin on it when I'm a mod



Have fun being nice 24/7 for what amounts to being a finger waggler. The users listen to the Admins, never the mods.


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## Verin Asper (Dec 5, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> Have fun being nice 24/7 for what amounts to being a finger waggler. The users listen to the Admins, never the mods.


XD oh every forum I been a mod knows the mask hides the fact I hate each and everyone of them and only do the job so things can run smoothly.
I'm no ones friend, I'm that one guy who just goes to work, not mingle with the employees and go home.


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Desume Crysis Kaiser said:


> I'm that one guy who just goes to work, not mingle with the employees and go home.



Yeah, ya know? =\ You dont have to like the people you work with to get the job done, even if it is a team effort. You just got to be able to put your differences aside for the greater good. Or something like that...


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## Verin Asper (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> Yeah, ya know? =\ You dont have to like the people you work with to get the job done, even if it is a team effort. You just got to be able to put your differences aside for the greater good. Or something like that...


my first boss taught me that.
"just do your damn job, your not here to be anyones buddy, you are here to make things run as smoothly as possible even if ends up only you doing that job while other mods goof off"

and cause of that when he quit he made me admin in his place which pissed the mods who were there longer than me. But I was never taught how to lead so I quit and gave it to his second of command and left too.


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## Aden (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Again, what makes you think you were even in the top spots of choices?



Don't sink to that level.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Silibus said:


> I did notice lots of joke-applications as well. That also may be the reason choosing moderators is taking a while. Background checks are hard over the net.
> 
> 
> Arguing about this gets us nowhere. Plus there is no "case" from what I see. I may be disqualified but it doesnt mean I still cant do good for the forums.



Correct, we're aware of the joke applications.

Also correct, and, it's not like we're gonna hire 20 moderators at once. It would make no sense. A few at a time to train then hire more later on. So yeah a lot of people got disqualified this round. Doesn't mean there isn't a next time to learn from.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Aden said:


> Don't sink to that level.



No level to sink to, just saying don't make presumptions.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 5, 2008)

May I request that this thread be locked? Nothing productive is being said anymore.

Edit: Nevermind, there's still hope. Just need to ignore those that are complaining more than discussing.


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Correct, we're aware of the joke applications.



Why werent those deleted along with everything else, since youre concerned about wading through extra posts to get to real applications?


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yeah people I liked or considered would make a good mod got DQ'd over their indiscretion to follow instructions, but that's how it is.


Well, it's still shit because it was on a page that I didn't see.
I wasn't going to read every single post, only the first and mine.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> Why werent those deleted along with everything else, since youre concerned about wading through extra posts to get to real applications?



I had left the applications joke or not because they were applications. We then just waded through to determine who were really being serious. Not every decision needs to be transparent. There was however more than 3 pages of spam and not actual applications that needed to be dealt with first. PS, just because posts are deleted with a message doesn't equate to the message being "gone forever" we can still see the contents of soft deleted posts, visually it's easier to see the actual applications to scan through and just view a soft deleted post when necessary.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

StainMcGorver said:


> Well, it's still shit because it was on a page that I didn't see.
> I wasn't going to read every single post, only the first and mine.



Why would we want a moderator that doesn't read posts?


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## StainMcGorver (Dec 5, 2008)

Nevermind, I'm just going to do some shit outside or something. Even looking at this thread pisses me off.


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I had left the applications joke or not because they were applications. We then just waded through to determine who were really being serious.



Well, you took the time to delete some *real* applications, why not take the time to delete the joke ones while you were going through?



> Not every decision needs to be transparent. There was however more than 3 pages of spam and not actual applications that needed to be dealt with first



Not spam. Off topic discussion due to natural topic drift, which is allowed under the rules. Theres a difference. And it would appear the only one who determined it was "spam" was you. You made a rule in Dragoneers thread, but he never appeared to sanction it for the rest of us. So, since few of the posting actually violated forum rules, your only excuse for what you did is that "people ignored an admin" 



> PS, just because posts are deleted with a message doesn't equate to the message being "gone forever" we can still see the contents of soft deleted posts, visually it's easier to see the actual applications to scan through and just view a soft deleted post when necessary.



What a convenient safety net for the mistakes of someone who just goes through a thread arbitrarily deleting posts. Especially the sort of mistake I listed above.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil, why not take a cue from Silibus? Definitely a person to learn from.


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## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Emil, why not take a cue from Silibus? Definitely a person to learn from.



Why, because I disagree from you? Sorry, but if you want me to shut up, youre going to have to convince me that you didnt overstep your boundaries, and actually discussed your decision with other staff members, as opposed to doing what you did for you own interests, which is the impression I get from your responses.

Or ban/mod me. But that would most definitely be an abuse of power.


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## Hanazawa (Dec 5, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Why would we want a moderator that doesn't read posts?



I don't know, you seem to have quite a few of them already. Moderated status may as well be a ban around here.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 5, 2008)

Emil said:


> Why, because I disagree from you? Sorry, but if you want me to shut up, youre going to have to convince me that you didnt overstep your boundaries, and actually discussed your decision with other staff members, as opposed to doing what you did for you own interests, which is the impression I get from your responses.
> 
> Or ban/mod me. But that would most definitely be an abuse of power.


She is already a Moderator, which means that Dragoneer trusts her decisions already.

Edit: Same goes for all other staff. They have proven to be trust-worthy to Dragoneer.


----------



## Emil (Dec 5, 2008)

Silibus said:


> She is already a Moderator, which means that Dragoneer trusts her decisions already.



Trusts her to enforce site rules, yes. But Arshes seems under the impression that her job goes beyond enforcement, and advice giving. Shes making large decisions like this, seemingly without consulting the rest of staff. At least, thats how it would appear to me.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 5, 2008)

Hanazawa said:


> I don't know, you seem to have quite a few of them already. Moderated status may as well be a ban around here.


Funniest reason to close a thread (so far): 
http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=737172&postcount=63

New rule: Threads with 15 post+ with no intelligence = Lock.


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## Ty Vulpine (Dec 5, 2008)

Oh, well. I'm not bitter anymore. Life is too short to worry about small shit like this, something you might be tired of a year from now, and resign, so why bother?


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## Xero108 (Dec 5, 2008)

I lost the need to argue this out after having read the last 3 pages of this thread. I'm just gonna sit and wait for the outcome of this.


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## TwilightV (Dec 5, 2008)

Silibus said:


> Funniest reason to close a thread (so far):
> http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=737172&postcount=63
> 
> New rule: Threads with 15 post+ with no intelligence = Lock.



I kinda liked that lock... :3


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## Rilvor (Dec 5, 2008)

I'd just like to say, reading this thread has made me decide it as the best drama thread * ever.*


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## Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (Dec 5, 2008)

If Arshes got the go-ahead from 'Neer, then there's nothing to discuss. Fairness is irrelevant, the decision has been made and I somehow doubt minds are going to be changed. Bitter? Not at all. I'm not pretentious enough to assume I was one of the top choices. And to be honest, I would have withdrawn anyway had I not been disqualified. I have a lot on my metaphorical plate right now, and I've come to the conclusion that a moderator should not be in a serious relationship with a forum regular. *PERIOD.*

Anyway, enjoy the drama and whatnot.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 5, 2008)

Easog said:


> If Arshes got the go-ahead from 'Neer, then there's nothing to discuss. Fairness is irrelevant, the decision has been made and I somehow doubt minds are going to be changed. Bitter? Not at all. I'm not pretentious enough to assume I was one of the top choices. And to be honest, I would have withdrawn anyway had I not been disqualified. I have a lot on my metaphorical plate right now, and I've come to the conclusion that a moderator should not be in a serious relationship with a forum regular. *PERIOD.*
> 
> Anyway, enjoy the drama and whatnot.



Understandable, and I also said it wouldn't be possible to take on too many moderators at once. A lot of mods are good, a lot of untrained ones = bad. There's always a next time. I just don't think the people dragging out the arguments are helping themselves for next time.


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## Rilvor (Dec 5, 2008)

You know, those dragging out probably don't even want to, or if they did no longer do :|

People do have a habit of arguing for the sake of it.


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## Aden (Dec 5, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> People do have a habit of arguing for the sake of it.



Do not.


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## Xero108 (Dec 5, 2008)

Easog said:


> If Arshes got the go-ahead from 'Neer, then there's nothing to discuss. Fairness is irrelevant.



What he said.


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## Devious Bane (Dec 5, 2008)

Bah, shouldn't have applied to begin with. The long nights of insomnia are torture to my health enough already.


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## Nylak (Dec 6, 2008)

Wow, this squabble is still going on?  I always miss the fun drama.


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## Takun (Dec 6, 2008)

Who cares.  It was volunteering and all this means is that those who didn't make it don't have to donate their time.


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## Hydramon (Dec 6, 2008)

Xero108 said:


> Dragoneer will log in soon and we'll see what he has to say about this. I can only cross my fingers that nobody's disqualified. It would be quite a shame. I just looked over the applications and here is who's still in and who's out:
> 
> *out*
> 
> ...


 ?


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## Azure (Dec 6, 2008)

Man, this thread, it's terrible, you should all feel like idiots.


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## Xero108 (Dec 6, 2008)

Hydramon said:


> ?



I took down the names of all those who had a post deleted by Arshes Nei and yours was it it. *shrugs* 
Detail anyways, the staff knows who's DQ, so don't worry about the list I put up.


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## TakeWalker (Dec 6, 2008)

Perhaps the time for levity is now.

I'm shocked no one pointed out all the diq in the title of this thread.


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## Ty Vulpine (Dec 6, 2008)

TakeWalker said:


> Perhaps the time for levity is now.
> 
> I'm shocked no one pointed out all the diq in the title of this thread.



I did notice, but there's no way for the OP to change the title.


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## Devious Bane (Dec 6, 2008)

LemurBoi said:


> Man, this thread, it's terrible, you should all feel like idiots.


^This.


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## Enigmaticat (Dec 6, 2008)

TakeWalker said:


> Perhaps the time for levity is now.
> 
> I'm shocked no one pointed out all the diq in the title of this thread.


Sorry about that. I didnt notice it either, I would change it if I could.


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## Nanakisan (Dec 7, 2008)

I would have applied.
I'm not the perfect person for being moderator.
lol
but some of those names on that list to me are the best candidates for mod pos.

Warmock
i could see him being a great mod.
he makes a wonderful startup of the rate a avatar threads.
such and such and always provides good comments.

grimfang
i'm shocked she wasn't a mod at the start.
very good artist and excellent thread writer.


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## Aden (Dec 7, 2008)

Nanakisan said:


> grimfang
> i'm shocked *she* wasn't a mod at the start.
> very good artist and excellent thread writer.



I KNEW IT.


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## Xero108 (Dec 7, 2008)

*gasp*


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## Grimfang (Dec 7, 2008)

Hey, now.. I've been told of my effeminate tendencies, however I am STILL unconvinced. ;3


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