# SAI Question- Why does this happen?



## RattleCan (Jan 18, 2012)

So every now and then when I'm coloring, I have a dark character and I try to add a darker shading in the same way I would with a not dark character. My shading technique is nothing fancy --> Add some dark color, use the blur tool to help make a smooth gradient between the base and added color. Rinse and repeat. 

But with dark characters, especially dark greys, this happens --> http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/OYSTER_EATING_DRAGON/BLAH.jpg

The blur tool doesn't make a 'smooth' gradient, but rather makes it.... fuzzy and liney. Like, you can distinctly see several blocky shades of grade created by the blur tool. And I honestly don't understand why it happens or what I can do about it.

This particular canvas is no different than my others, 5000px by 6000px and 500pixels/inch

Any advice?


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 18, 2012)

The developer hasn't worked on Sai for quite a while now and it's just possible it's a bug.

But I can't  see what you're talking about (and it's very possible due to my monitor's output of gamut) - not to mention the fact this is a laptop and most use pretty cheap TFT panels. 

...and looking at it over 2 other monitors, I still don't see what you're talking about.

On the other hand, if this is 6000 pixels, is it really gonna show up when you reduce it for web? Because getting upset about it if it will be reduced in size doesn't really doesn't matter.


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## RattleCan (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm honestly wondering if it is just something on my screen then. I might try to get a larger/close up pic of it and see if you can see it or not. The only reason that it did bug me though was that I -could- see it when I shrunk it down dramatically, but again, it could very much be my laptop then. I'll see if I can get another pic up shortly.....

EDIT-- Alright, see if you can see the lines here. Maybe it is just my comp-- http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/OYSTER_EATING_DRAGON/BLAH2.jpg


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 18, 2012)

Well on this monitor, I can see some banding when enlarged but it's not gonna be noticeable when you shrink down.

Here, let me put this into perspective.


This is a full high res image/concept art from the game Dragon Crown

http://static.zerochan.net/full/33/19/623483.jpg

(won't embed because it's really large)

You can see a ton of artifacts (which actually is grain from the Painter brush) circular dabs because of spacing and areas where the eraser didn't quite get all of it.
Reduced down though...

You get this:






http://www.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/dragonscrown_11.jpg


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## Machinari (Jan 18, 2012)

This actually happens to me too, in both SAI and Photoshop, particularly when using dark blues or purples.  Nasty pixely stuff, I haven't any idea what causes it or how to stop it.  So far the only thing I've found is resizing it so you can't see it, or picking a different color and messing with it, but I've been looking for a real solution for ages.


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## Volkodav (Jan 18, 2012)

meh, dunno why it happens but it happens to me too


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## RattleCan (Jan 18, 2012)

Arshes, I understand completely what you mean. Resizing images almost always solves pixel-y problems, but in this case I can still very obviously see it when the image is only 15-20% it's original size. Normally it wouldn't bother me, it's the fact that it only happens every so often and only with certain colors that gets to me. I wasn't sure if it was just me being crazy, or my computer or the program or what, but I guess it's just something I'm going to have to work around >_<

Machinari, I don't recall ever having the issue in photoshop, just SAI. Maybe art programs just don't like dark colors. But then I look at tons of digital art that does have dark shading on a dark color and it looks fine and that's what bugs me. Especially because now I don't even want to finish my picture because trying to shade larger portions of the dark space just make it that much more obvious. Not cool :/


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 19, 2012)

I am not sure what you mean by blur tool, but have you tried using the watercolor brush at high Blend? (nevermind, forgot about the brushes at the bottom)

Basically make a blender brush by going to watercolor and changing the following sliders.

Density: 40-50%
Blending: 100%
Dilution: (if you bring this down to 0 - more of the color you have picked appears, if you bring it up - more of the background color (white) - if you brush it against a blank canvas, it will drag white)
Persistence: 0%

Sometimes changing it (simple circle) to a texture instead can help make more interesting blending too. I like noise and spread, gives some great effects, but it depends.


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## RattleCan (Jan 19, 2012)

There is a brush labeled "blur" that comes as a default with the program, that's the one I was referring to.

I tried using the watercolor brush method you stated above and while I can still see the banding, it becomes a lot smoother and I can't see it as easily when I shrink the picture down, so I plan on using that method for shading and I'll see how the image turns out. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 19, 2012)

RattleCan said:


> There is a brush labeled "blur" that comes as a default with the program, that's the one I was referring to.
> 
> I tried using the watercolor brush method you stated above and while I can still see the banding, it becomes a lot smoother and I can't see it as easily when I shrink the picture down, so I plan on using that method for shading and I'll see how the image turns out. Thanks for the recommendation!




Yeah, that's why I said nevermind - it was on the bottom of the brushes, I tend to use the top ones as the other ones don't really "act" too differently than the ones I modify. 

Just so people understand the sliders, I'll try to explain them a bit.

Density is like Opacity
Blending, is how much another color will bleed into the other
Dillution is how "watery" the color becomes, that's why you'll see white dragged in when you have this up high
Persistence is how much of the original color you pick is dragged in.

Hopefully understanding these settings, even though you seem to like my recommendation may let you customize the brush further so you can be happier with it.
I haven't seen an update from Sai since 2008 so ...


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 19, 2012)

Machinari said:


> This actually happens to me too, in both SAI and Photoshop, particularly when using dark blues or purples.  Nasty pixely stuff, I haven't any idea what causes it or how to stop it.  So far the only thing I've found is resizing it so you can't see it, or picking a different color and messing with it, but I've been looking for a real solution for ages.




This might help you since you're using Photoshop in this case - http://slodive.com/photoshop/how-to-correct-banding-in-your-gradients-using-photoshop/


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## Neko-Maya (Feb 12, 2012)

This (what the first person was talking about) is not a Sai bug by the looks of it, it's a normal issue with screens: anyone who sees these 'blocks of shade' on darker colours/shades have their screens gamma value wrong or brightness/contrast settings off.
It's easily fixed with calibrating the screen, either with the calibration tool (in control panel for window users atleast), or by buying a proper calibrator :3

Although computer colours tend to make these things in complete gradient's as the colours are limited in a screen. Worse if you're accidentally running 32bit colour =P


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 12, 2012)

Neko-Maya said:


> This (what the first person was talking about) is not a Sai bug by the looks of it, it's a normal issue with screens: anyone who sees these 'blocks of shade' on darker colours/shades have their screens gamma value wrong or brightness/contrast settings off.
> It's easily fixed with calibrating the screen, either with the calibration tool (in control panel for window users atleast), or by buying a proper calibrator :3
> 
> Although computer colours tend to make these things in complete gradient's as the colours are limited in a screen. Worse if you're accidentally running 32bit colour =P



I think the banding issue was resolved. It's just the way some programs output. Sai and Photoshop have this issue... Dependent upon people's monitors however, the banding may not be such a big deal.


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