# Why all the hate on yiff?



## Sakura Yakushi (Feb 21, 2014)

Many furries freak out when non furries bring up the sexual content in the fandom and start to flip out like "The fandom is not all about sex!!!!!1111" Why the panic? Why not just say "Yes, it's there but there is nothing wrong with it." I have that stance on sexual content in the fandom. I don't see why people freak out. Here in America sex seem to be taboo. It's pretty stupid. It is simply unhealthy to have that view on such a natural act. I know that views on this topic are varied. To deny the yiff content will only prolong the judgmental questioning, I wonder if admitting that it exists and have the "so what?" attitude about it will help to calm the flames?


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## Rooko (Feb 21, 2014)

Because everyone assumes being a furry is about sex and a lot of us are sick of the stereotype.


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## Aleu (Feb 21, 2014)

Because it's too close to bestiality.

Honestly is that so difficult to comprehend?


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## alphakitsune (Feb 21, 2014)

Because yiff is the reason people hate furries. Also people post nsfw stuff on the homepage for FA even though there are furries who are like 12 years old!


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## Machine (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't hate furries because of yiff. I hate furries because they plaster their fucking disturbing fetishes all over the place when I don't want to see them. Even IF I HAVE THE SFW OPTION UP! So caught up in their fetishes that they can't even label their shit as "ADULT". Really.

I think furries are over-privileged, really. They get all these fantastic furfag hugbox havens where they can post their fucked-up art and no one bats a fucking eye. But god forbid you call them out on their sick shit, no matter how offending it is, they'll cry FURSECUTION and call you Hitler and think you're LGBT-intolerant.


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## Rooko (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, considering that we're on the internet, you should be wary of sick shit wherever there is user-created content.


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## Machine (Feb 21, 2014)

Rooko said:


> Well, considering that we're on the internet, you should be wary of sick shit wherever there is user-created content.


Not an excuse. No one's more thin-skinned than a furry. :V


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## TreacleFox (Feb 21, 2014)

But I love yiff. ;^;


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## funky3000 (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't hate yiff, but I don't participate in it. Tbh, I'm more of a fetish kind of guy. The closest to participation is I follow someone who makes mostly yiff. BUT the only reason for that is because I stumbled across her name, I recognized it from Minecraft. In fact I used to help her with her house I think.

While I don't frown upon yiff, I only defend the fandom when people bring up the stereotype. Its annoying, and older than ancient can describe. And my tone isn't like freaking out, more of "are you fucking kidding me people still follow this stereotype?" kind of tone. As if I'm bothered by their ignorance.


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## Troj (Feb 21, 2014)

I think the "hate on yiff" stems from, as Rooko said, furries being tired of being stereotyped as sex perverts or total horndogs.

 People already believe or assume that furry is purely a sexual fetish, any additional drop in the bucket serves to endow those stereotypes and bolster those assumptions.

Typically, when people have a certain belief or assumption, it typically takes a lot more to counteract or debunk that belief than it did to plant it in the first place. 

On top of that, sex sells and intrigues, so I feel that a lot of people hear "Blah blah blah FURSUIT SEX blah blah blah blah YIFF PORN blah blah blah DOG RAPE blah blah," where "blah blah blah" represents all of the boring statistics and non-sexual elements of the fandom. You could give a two hour lecture on the fandom, and various people would come away only remembering the sexy bits.


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## Tica (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't like yiff. I like my ladies human, thank you.

I guess I often resent being categorized as someone who does or would like yiff, when I don't.


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## Kamek_Sans (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, furries gotta sex too ;3; I'm indifferent as long as it isn't super gross and fetish-y... and fursuit yiff is incredibly inconvenient, soooooooo


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## RedLeFrench (Feb 21, 2014)

At first I was strongly against, because seeing such art displayed on any front page doesn't help the cause. When people guess or acknwledge the fact I'm a furry, some immediately assume I look up the porn stuff... Well sorry to disppoint, I barely deal in any porn whatsoever. Hell, I'm in a country that is said to be "liberated", and the reactions I get are usually "ewwww... You're a furry, eeew..."

I gave up on defending myself... Now, I just toggle the SFW button and don't care anymore.


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## Nashida (Feb 21, 2014)

Don't really care for, it, don't really hate it, it's just there. I can choose to ignore it if I want to because yay choice.


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## Malcolm the Bear (Feb 21, 2014)

Why is it an issue?  Because it's a stereotype, which means others may get the wrong idea about us, and we're taught in our culture to care WAY too much about what everyone _else_ thinks of us moreso than what we think of ourselves.  (Plus how many of us Furries have had to deal with being socially outcast in general anyway?)


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## Mr. Sparta (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm fine with yiff, but I only look when I'm in the mood. Any other time I get really uncomfortable.

Granted all fandoms are viewed on the standard of the lowest common denominator, this isn't furry exclusive.


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## Mr. Sparta (Feb 21, 2014)

fuck


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## Jabberwocky (Feb 21, 2014)

so one wolf man and a wolf woman are slapped into a drawing having sex. big tits, dicks flying everywhere.
and non furries see.
and then we are labeled as sex-crazed perverts who only spend their time watching animal people fuck.
yeah, I guess there really is no reason to hate the aspect of yiff. :v


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## dialup (Feb 21, 2014)

I think it's how obnoxious people are about it. I'm into some weird shit but I don't tell people about it and shove it in their faces because it's *weird*. A lot of people with bizarre kinks, including furries, seem to forget that most people outside of their internet friends aren't into shit like that.


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## Destova (Feb 21, 2014)

People are into what they're into. 

Other people are into what they're into, and think everyone ELSE should be as well.

Hence why we have hate. When people don't agree with other people, they go batty (sorry d.batty). 

There are certain aspects and sub cultures of our world that honest to god (had to) believe they are right, and anyone else who doesn't believe that is legitimately wrong. While I say sub cultures, it really reigns true with almost EVERY single person in the world in one fact or another. There will always be that loud voice in the crowd, the one that EVERYONE hears. Because of this, the rest of the world only generally hears that ONE voice because a majority of people have trouble multi tasking people talking, and so that one voice gets the say. We have that one person who defends yiff to the point of fanaticism, and so that is the one point people here and then decide that must be what everyone thinks. Hence the hate. 

You can take this term and apply it to ANYTHING. 

This was your late night ramble brought to you by moi. Hopefully, it makes sense. -.-


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 21, 2014)

sure we all have our fetishes, but this one just slaps a whole negative aura over the whole fandom, I just don't like the stereotype of all of us being weird, sex-crazed people with a touch of zoophilia thrown in for good measure.


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## Symlus (Feb 21, 2014)

The way I see it is: 

Y'all bunch of freaks with yo' cray cray fetishes!
I totally have my own fetishes.


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## Kosdu (Feb 21, 2014)

Alot of it is disgusting: scat, cub porn...... Use your imagination.

Fuck I look for yiff blogs on tumblr and find shit like cub porn, it disgusts me and I feel dirty and wrong for the small glimpse I caught. 

Fuck child porn. It's abhorrent.

Example:

Looking at some random gay yiff blog I found by google.

Skip over some semi-feral porn. Yeah, it's just their chars in a more feral form, but I don't find it attractive.

Okay, I can do this.

Keep going.

Come across a post saying this "artist" is among the best.
A pic of three fit men holding a baby in their laps.

Okay, so loving family/friends scene?

Oh god, no!!!

What the fuck!

YOU DON'T FUCK BABIES WTF YOU SICKO!!!!

FUCK ALL YOU DISGUSTING FUCKS THINKING THIS IS ATTRACTIVE!!

Seriously, just wtf is wrong with them?

My eyes -.-


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## Hewge (Feb 21, 2014)

Yiff is such a dumb word...


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## Kitsune Cross (Feb 22, 2014)

If it wasn't for yiff being a furry would be a lot more easy


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## Calemeyr (Feb 22, 2014)

It's not that there is porn, it's that people turn into some dumb lifestyle where any criticism of parading one's fetish is seen as trampling on "civil rights".
And perhaps there _is_ too much focus on pornography. I guess I see the fandom as a fandom of anthropomorphics that just happens to have porn and fetishes, and not a fetish subculture/sexual identity that just happens to have anthropomorphics. I could live without the fandom; it's not the sole thing that defines who I am.

So to repeat, no problem with yiff, but I have a real problem when people treat the goings on in this geek fandom like some oppressed minority struggle and feel the need to share in great detail their fetishes. I frankly find these things offensive.

Edit: the borderline illegal/pedophile/bestialist/rape culture/serial killeresque porn needs to get the fuck out. People who enjoy this stuff need professional help, because I worry they may hurt someone from underlying problems that made them like or make such horrifying porn in the first place.


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## Jabberwocky (Feb 22, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> So to repeat, no problem with yiff, but I have a real problem when people treat the goings on in this geek fandom like some oppressed minority struggle and feel the need to share in great detail their fetishes. I frankly find these things offensive.



this
it's just as annoying as this whole cisphobia concept


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 22, 2014)

besides, doesn't being open about your fetishes take all the fun out of it? They're SUPPOSED to be dirty little secrets.


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## Wither (Feb 22, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> besides, doesn't being open about your fetishes take all the fun out of it? They're SUPPOSED to be dirty little secrets.



Then you'd never find another sick fuck that's into the same things you are. 

They're nothing shameful nor dirty little secrets. Honestly, they're not a big fucking deal. 
However; for the love of fuck, keep it to yourself until asked. Not everyone needs to have your disgusting fetishes shoved down their throat. 

(IGNORE THE IRONY OF ME SAYING THIS. I'm a grade A furfag, suck it up :U)


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 22, 2014)

I like to be surprised by what my chicks are into...unless it's choking. That one kills everything for me.


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## SirRob (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm glad people hate on it. The appeal would be lost for me if the fandom wasn't taboo. There's something enticing about being part of a community of misfits and outcasts.


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## Wither (Feb 22, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> I like to be surprised by what my chicks are into...unless it's choking. That one kills everything for me.



Well obviously it's a turn off. Women do breath control the lame way, all graby with the hands and things. 
Now men on the other hand... <3
Nothing beats a man throat-fu - ... 
Er, I'll keep that bit to myself. ... >>;;


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 22, 2014)

Don't feel bad..I made a bad joke at work last week and now my boss thinks I'm in to bondage/S&M.


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## Wither (Feb 22, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> Don't feel bad..I made a bad joke at work last week and now my boss thinks I'm in to bondage/S&M.



I'm not ashamed, mate. The forum is PG-13 and all, though. Also not everyone wants to hear about it 
Also Unabashedly into those two things as well.


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## Roadkvlted (Feb 22, 2014)

In my opinion, I think the problem with yiff as a lifestyle is that person associate it with their everyday activities and treating everything as if it was their personal fantasies. Which would be fine, expect for the little detail in that if a person is associating with another that does not share the same interest, they're viewed as a lunatic or something along the lines of. Lunatic might be a strong word, but they might get weird looks or they might get bullied because of it.
I would normally say different strokes for different folks. I'm not really into yiffing and more into just having characters and 'sonas so I wouldn't understand what the fetishism is like nor would I say what it is like. But if it doesn't put someone at risk, whether it's putting their life or health in danger, then I don't see a really big problem with it.
Unless it's those that are completely obsessed with their interests and have become self-absorbed to a point where their fur has become their real self and they start to believe they're their characters or whatever.
(Sorry if this doesn't make sense. It's late at night and I'm trying to come up with some form of valid reason)


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Feb 22, 2014)

Sexual degenerates the lot of you.


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## Misomie (Feb 22, 2014)

I don't see yiff as a problem at all. I mean, I used to when I was new and stupid but not anymore. It's just people using their characters/fursonas to screw around. These characters represent them and let them feel immersed in some taboo they'd most likely never have the guts to actually try (one of those fetishes that will never leave their mind). So rather they use the more fetishy yiff as an outlet for it. For the more basic yiff they were probably just horny people. Most people are pretty horny.


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## Wydo (Feb 22, 2014)

wow, this WHOLE forum just SCREAMS I love me some dog dick and this is why we don't have nice things.


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## Machine (Feb 22, 2014)

The Furry Phil said:


> wow, this WHOLE forum just SCREAMS I love me some dog dick and this is why we don't have nice things.


Yeah,  because that's fucking disgusting.


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## Imperial Impact (Feb 22, 2014)

Are you implying that's the -only- thing that's wrong with furries, OP?


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## Jags (Feb 22, 2014)

It's not so much a problem with the concept, it's just people take it too far. Another notable example are Bronies, when someone says they watch it people think of the bloody idiots who go into supermarkets with 'TWALAGHT SPACLE IS MA WAIFU' shirts. 

But people who just do a bit of 16+ rp with their sona isn't really such a bad thing - it's your character, your hobby, your life really. Just, don't go telling everybody.


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## PastryOfApathy (Feb 22, 2014)

It's because furfags have a history of confusing fetishism with an actual lifestyle, and believing their "plight" to have the world accept their love of fox cocks is on par with the civil rights movement or women's suffrage or something.


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## Batty Krueger (Feb 22, 2014)

Ahhhh yiff, the cause and solution to all of lifes problems.


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## Valery91Thunder (Feb 22, 2014)

Sakura Yakushi said:
			
		

> Why not just say "Yes, it's there but there is nothing wrong with it."


Because deep down, they all know there's actually everything wrong with it. 
I'll personally always find yiff ridicolous and unappealing, but it's true what they say: one man's trash is another man's fetish.
Was it so?


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## Pantheros (Feb 22, 2014)

damn the day i looked up what it means!


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## Fallowfox (Feb 22, 2014)

Generally people don't conclude my interest in furry stuff is sexual, even though it is. 

Jealous?


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## Troj (Feb 22, 2014)

On the shoulders of what Calemeyr said, I've run into folks in the fandom who'll accuse you of being "anti-sex," repressed, anti-freedom, anti-expression, or puritanical for stating that some people need to be more discreet about airing their fetishes, and/or that certain settings or venues are _not_ appropriate for discussing sex as it relates to the fandom.

I find that young people in particular often go through a phase where "pride"=total disclosure and openness across ALL settings, and "shame"=being discreet, or compartmentalizing parts of yourself or your life. You also sometimes see it in previously-marginalized or previously-repressed people who are just now coming to terms with some aspect of their identity that they previously weren't able to "own."


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## Teethdude (Feb 22, 2014)

dialup said:


> I think it's how obnoxious people are about it. I'm into some weird shit but I don't tell people about it and shove it in their faces because it's *weird*. A lot of people with bizarre kinks, including furries, seem to forget that most people outside of their internet friends aren't into shit like that.


as well, im into some crazy (but not Over-the-Top) stuff. There's no way i'd ever just randomly tell people of my furry-ness. They'd not care one bit.


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## Scath-mac-tire (Feb 22, 2014)

Because of the reputation it gives most furries, pretty much what  everyone's said thus far. It's also pretty close to bestiality which  makes people point fingers and build connections that don't exist, which  also damages everyone's reputation. Personally I don't like it or hate  it, people have things they believe in and it's not right to try and  stop them for it. Until something or someone gets destroyed or harmed  then it really is way past the time to stop.


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## Aulendra (Feb 22, 2014)

Count me in as another one who feels "meh" about yiff. The reputation it gives the fandom is annoying and this air of obsession floats around it in some circles. I don't hate it, but when people ask me to RP and when I tell them "no yiff", can't possibly FATHOM any other type of RP to ever exist (if that's the case, I guess DnD is secretly an excuse for a nerd orgy? LARPs are swinger's clubs?) it just pisses me off.

I deliberately hang out in PG-13 forums and areas in furry games now, just to avoid it.


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## Batty Krueger (Feb 22, 2014)

I dont worship any god, but I will worship yiff. Fox cock in yo cracka hole bitches! *twirls away*


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## Raelight (Feb 27, 2014)

I think my biggest issue with the 'illicit, taboo' aspect of anthro art is how it has managed to become centralized in the fandom.  I mean, it's hard to say there isn't a problem on FA with the way we view art when people flock to have the same icon design of a fur's hips with their hand down their pants.


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## dawgz (Feb 28, 2014)

Sakura Yakushi said:


> Many furries freak out when non furries bring up the sexual content in the fandom and start to flip out like "The fandom is not all about sex!!!!!1111" Why the panic? Why not just say "Yes, it's there but there is nothing wrong with it." I have that stance on sexual content in the fandom. I don't see why people freak out. Here in America sex seem to be taboo. It's pretty stupid. It is simply unhealthy to have that view on such a natural act. I know that views on this topic are varied. To deny the yiff content will only prolong the judgmental questioning, I wonder if admitting that it exists and have the "so what?" attitude about it will help to calm the flames?




I have the very attitude that you do.  Yeah, there is the segment that does sexual activity in their suits.  I don't care.  It isn't my thing.  With that, I still want my fursuits to have a gender.  The reality is that the U.S. is a sexually repressed and immature country that reliably gets bent out of shape over sex, while not giving a flip about an ultra graphic representation of a person getting blown into a billion bloody bits.  *shrug*

Go figure.


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## Verok (Mar 1, 2014)

Yiff is just an extension of rule 34. No matter how hard you try, you can not ignore the fact that somewhere out there, porn of it exists, regardless of what it is. For some furries, they prefer to bury their heads under the sand and deny that porn is part of the fandom, while at the same time jacking-off to a lion taking it in the ass.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 2, 2014)

It's not the 'yiff' that bothers me; if some people get off on that kind of stuff, fine, I'm not going to pick you apart for it.  What bothers me is that it is being viewed by most anti-furries as a common practice among furries, and that simply isn't the case.  It pisses me off when people call me a pervert and fur fag, saying I support yiffing when in fact I am a Christian completely opposed to such practices, and being told that I am a part of a fandom that supports that just irks me.  It's a stupid stereotype, but what are you going to do?


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## Armored Chocobo (Mar 3, 2014)

I hate all porn, I just want to put that up front. Unlike 98% of teenage, young adult, and even middle-aged males in the country, I do not enjoy seeing a penis, a bare boob, or a vagina, nor seeing them in use.

That's up to and including yiff, add on the fact that since the "yiffy" minority is so vocal that people believe ALL furries do that, It's double-dipping into my hate pool.


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## Sar (Mar 4, 2014)

It's nice to know I can browse FA without treating Yiff like some kind of trigger. The less you make a fuss about it, the less people would think you are in denial about your habits. It just seems so silly that Furries make so much of a fuss over trying to prove something or "defending the fandom". They just make themselves part of the stereotype they are trying to avoid. You don't have to like Yiff to be a Furry, but it helps.


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## craftyandy (Mar 5, 2014)

Yeah I don't get it either, it's a bunch of cowardly hypocritical bloks if you ask me. What if I don't want your non fetish stuff shoved in my face everywhere because it doesn't turn me on? how would that go?
How bout society gets over it instead of trying to force other people to conform to their ways. society is what helped make people like us in the first place. fuck em. 

Considering the reactions people are having on this page towards some of the more extreme and disgusting content I say make more please. Make them squirm in their seats.


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## craftyandy (Mar 5, 2014)

alphakitsune said:


> Because yiff is the reason people hate furries. Also people post nsfw stuff on the homepage for FA even though there are furries who are like 12 years old!


guess what I was drawing when I was 12 years old before the internet was invented.


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## craftyandy (Mar 5, 2014)

dawgz said:


> I have the very attitude that you do.  Yeah, there is the segment that does sexual activity in their suits.  I don't care.  It isn't my thing.  With that, I still want my fursuits to have a gender.  The reality is that the U.S. is a sexually repressed and immature country that reliably gets bent out of shape over sex, while not giving a flip about an ultra graphic representation of a person getting blown into a billion bloody bits.  *shrug*
> 
> Go figure.



indeed, though I find it hot, even before then though I shared your same sentiment after becoming reasonable (atheist) and before getting involved publicly with furry. In most European countries they go so far as to explore subjects like zoophilia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl9DdB75d2E and incest on their television programs and not give a real damn. Here...we're still figuring out if gay people are human or not and that it is awwright  to cut off a person's breasts as long as you don't kiss them. But I don't seek comfort I demand to learn more about subjects that make me and others sit uncomfortably in their seats, never lose that child like curiosity.


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## Raelight (Mar 5, 2014)

craftyandy said:


> Yeah I don't get it either, it's a bunch of cowardly hypocritical bloks if you ask me. What if I don't want your non fetish stuff shoved in my face everywhere because it doesn't turn me on? how would that go?
> How bout society gets over it instead of trying to force other people to conform to their ways. society is what helped make people like us in the first place. fuck em.
> 
> Considering the reactions people are having on this page towards some of the more extreme and disgusting content I say make more please. Make them squirm in their seats.



You may be generalizing a bit, man, and I feel you are being just a tad unfair,

I wouldn't say I get offended at yiff art, but I do get really tired of seeing it after awhile.  I might even say that some of the raunchy stuff is some of the most technically proficient art seen here.  However, the nice thing about sex or really most things pleasurable is that it's something that you don't immerse yourself in, so that when you -get- to participate in whatever it is, it's a treat, it's pleasant, it's something to relax your body and mind.  It's the same reason the light sabers in the old Star Wars movies are great because they aren't there all the time, so when you see them, they're totally cool.  

I don't know about other people, but the sheer amount of pornography seen on this site actually has me bored of sex because it's just too much for me to genuinely enjoy, so I just get jaded.   Honestly, I see clean art that I sigh at because it just lacks inspiration or uniqueness.  So, I don't want there to be less of the porn, because that would be denying people their outlets, and it wouldn't solve any of my issues.  What I do want is more discourse on creating anthro art that has content beyond the surface of the piece (There can be sex, I REALLY don't mind it if it's done for a purpose!).  I want more webcomics like Lackadaisy and The Great Catsby to exist.  

Crafty, if your statement is indicative of the rest of the fandom, then I don't think that right now this is a place that would be very receptive to up and coming artists/writers trying to make an earnest attempt at art, literature or even something interesting or new.


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## RedDagger (Mar 5, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> It's not the 'yiff' that bothers me; if some people get off on that kind of stuff, fine, I'm not going to pick you apart for it.  What bothers me is that it is being viewed by most anti-furries as a common practice among furries, and that simply isn't the case.  It pisses me off when people call me a pervert and fur fag, saying I support yiffing when in fact I am a Christian completely opposed to such practices, and being told that I am a part of a fandom that supports that just irks me.  It's a stupid stereotype, but what are you going to do?



Shouldn't that make you annoyed with the people who use stereotypes instead of the yiff, though? It's not as if the yiff is actually doing anything - it's there, it will stay there, and you don't have to look at it - but if there are people thinking of you as a person who looks at yiff then the fault is with them, surely, not the yiff? 

The way I just said that makes it seem like yiff is this innocent bystander. 
'Innocent'. Pfft.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 5, 2014)

RedDagger said:


> Shouldn't that make you annoyed with the people who use stereotypes instead of the yiff, though? It's not as if the yiff is actually doing anything - it's there, it will stay there, and you don't have to look at it - but if there are people thinking of you as a person who looks at yiff then the fault is with them, surely, not the yiff?
> 
> The way I just said that makes it seem like yiff is this innocent bystander.
> 'Innocent'. Pfft.



It's a combined effort.  R34 is unavoidable, but that doesn't mean I'm not justified to hate it's existence.

The haters are short minded and ignorant, but that is mostly the result of the yiff.  Yiff is their only grounds to hate furries, and its because of the ones who make so much yiff and are so expressive about it is why this fandom is as complicated as it is.  Had yiff and porn been limited to R34, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but now you can't search furry without yiff being mentioned.


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## chesse20 (Mar 5, 2014)

I originally  became a furry because of the porn but I also think the fursuits are cute and the art

I think there are some idiot losers in the furry fandom which is a reason it is hated

im not going to name any names


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## Armored Chocobo (Mar 6, 2014)

craftyandy said:


> guess what I was drawing when I was 12 years old before the internet was invented.



Did you then show it to the whole school?


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 6, 2014)

dawgz said:


> I have the very attitude that you do.  Yeah, there is the segment that does sexual activity in their suits.  I don't care.  It isn't my thing.  With that, I still want my fursuits to have a gender.  The reality is that the U.S. is a sexually repressed and immature country that reliably gets bent out of shape over sex, while not giving a flip about an ultra graphic representation of a person getting blown into a billion bloody bits.  *shrug*
> 
> Go figure.



It's kinda an unfair comparison, gore and sex...

Difference is, I believe, that one thing is suggestive and supports an action that could potentially affect a younger mind's life and influence actions/morals.  Depending on the representation of sex, it could transform the moral compass of a person.  Example is that if people describe sex as something that someone shouldn't be ashamed of as opposed to sex being described as something that should be private and kept to yourself.  

Violent media, however, has much less influence on younger minds due to the fact of it's most common representation.  Pictures of the Holocaust, for example, are gut wrenching and disturbing, but it's depicted as a horror that we wish to avoid, not a lifestyle that we may or may not follow.


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## Sar (Mar 6, 2014)

RedDagger said:


> The way I just said that makes it seem like yiff is this innocent bystander.
> 'Innocent'. Pfft.



Yiff always gets grounded by his parents. Poor Yiff. He done nothing wrong.


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## Joey (Mar 8, 2014)

It's seriously not a big deal but I don't think we need much more of it. I definitely prefer clean art and the like.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 8, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> It's not the 'yiff' that bothers me; if some people get off on that kind of stuff, fine, I'm not going to pick you apart for it.  What bothers me is that it is being viewed by most anti-furries as a common practice among furries, *and that simply isn't the case. * It pisses me off when people call me a pervert and fur fag, saying I support yiffing when in fact I am a Christian completely opposed to such practices, and being told that I am a part of a fandom that supports that just irks me.  It's a stupid stereotype, but what are you going to do?



Furry porn *is *commonly consumed by most furries. Denying this is pointless.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 8, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> Furry porn *is *commonly consumed by most furries. Denying this is pointless.



That doesn't matter: Porn is consumed by every single man on the face of God's green earth, including me.

It's consumed, it's viewed, there's no doubt about that, but that isn't what defines our fandom, at least, it _shouldn't _be what defines our fandom.


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## Joey (Mar 8, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> It's consumed, it's viewed, there's no doubt about that, but that isn't what defines our fandom, at least, it _shouldn't _be what defines our fandom.



It kinda does. But does it define what you as an individual can get out of the fandom? The best thing to do is set a good example and just really soak up those wholesome parts of the fandom that people like you and I enjoy. Just be YOU. It might even encourage people who are hesitant to get involved with the furry community to give it a try once they see that aspect of the fandom being cherished the way it should be.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 8, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> That doesn't matter: Porn is consumed by every single man on the face of God's green earth, including me.
> 
> It's consumed, it's viewed, there's no doubt about that, but that isn't what defines our fandom, at least, it _shouldn't _be what defines our fandom.



You said that furry porn was not a common practice among furries; that it 'simply isn't the case', when it simply _is_ the case. 

Whether or not it's a definitive trait, or should be, of 'the fandom', whatever that is, is a different kettle of fish. 

Although I'm intrigued what exactly you mean when you say 'I am a christian; I am completely opposed to such [pornographic] practices,'...and then subsequently admit to consuming pornography yourself. 

I'm completely opposed to drinking alcohol, except when it's me doing the drinking.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 8, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> Although I'm intrigued what exactly you mean when you say 'I am a christian; I am completely opposed to such [pornographic] practices,'...and then subsequently admit to consuming pornography yourself.
> 
> I'm completely opposed to drinking alcohol, except when it's me doing the drinking.



I have consumed pornography, but does that make me a non believer?  Christians still struggle with these things, too.  I don't want to make this personal, but I have been fighting this addiction ever since I've been introduced to it.  I don't approve of the things I have done, as I have done horrible things, and I admit I still struggle with it (not to the extent I have in the past, but it's still a recurring battle in my life).

Anyway, agree to disagree, each to their own opinion and whatnot; I don't want to make it into a big issue, it's really not now that I think about it.


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## Joey (Mar 8, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> I have consumed pornography, but does that make me a non believer?  Christians still struggle with these things, too.  I don't want to make this personal, but I have been fighting this addiction ever since I've been introduced to it.  I don't approve of the things I have done, as I have done horrible things, and I admit I still struggle with it (not to the extent I have in the past, but it's still a recurring battle in my life).
> 
> Anyway, agree to disagree, each to their own opinion and whatnot; I don't want to make it into a big issue, it's really not now that I think about it.



I was a "christian furry" when I was your age too, lol

As a present day atheist, and from my point of view, I'd have to suggest just getting it out of your system. Your urges aren't going to go away unless you're essentially Asexual like I was back then. You're just bottling it up at this point. I doubt you've done any "horrible things" yet, but if you keep unnaturally holding it all in like that... you just might someday.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 8, 2014)

Alex The Lemur said:


> I was a "christian furry" when I was your age too, lol
> 
> As a present day atheist, and from my point of view, I'd have to suggest just getting it out of your system. Your urges aren't going to go away unless you're essentially Asexual like I was back then. You're just bottling it up at this point.



Thanks, but no thanks.  I will get through this one way or another.

I'm not giving up because it's hard; I'm going to fight it.  My urges wont go away simply by giving in, it will continue to come back over and over until I am back in the grasp of addiction.  No, I will fight the addiction tooth and claw, Thanks anyway.


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## Troj (Mar 8, 2014)

This may be of interest:

 Strong Religious Beliefs May Drive Self-Perception  of Being Addicted to Online Porn


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## Mr. Sparta (Mar 9, 2014)

Troj said:


> This may be of interest:
> 
> Strong Religious Beliefs May Drive Self-Perception  of Being Addicted to Online Porn



I have this book I got as a gift for coming of age teens. It has this whole chapter on pornography. It said that porn can and WILL turn you into a serial rapist, and also that pornography is an addictive drug on par with nicotine.

One google search debunked most of that.


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 9, 2014)

Mr. Sparta said:


> I have this book I got as a gift for coming of age teens. It has this whole chapter on pornography. It said that porn can and WILL turn you into a serial rapist, and also that pornography is an addictive drug on par with nicotine.



Of course it will!!! Just like listening to Slayer makes you murder people and worship Satan.


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## Batty Krueger (Mar 9, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> Of course it will!!! Just like listening to Slayer makes you murder people and worship Satan.


And slayer is just thrash metal, think of what death metal does to people


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 9, 2014)

Burn down churches of course!!!


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## Batty Krueger (Mar 9, 2014)

Ooohhhh yeah...wait, no. 

Churches full of babies!


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 9, 2014)

and kittens.


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## Batty Krueger (Mar 9, 2014)

Now thats metal.


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 9, 2014)

trve kvlt brvtal.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 9, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> Thanks, but no thanks.  I will get through this one way or another.
> 
> I'm not giving up because it's hard; I'm going to fight it.  My urges wont go away simply by giving in, it will continue to come back over and over until I am back in the grasp of addiction.  No, I will fight the addiction tooth and claw, Thanks anyway.



Wanting to have a wank is not an addiction. 
Addictions definitively have adverse consequences. No evidence exists to suggest that masturbation has adverse consequences.



Mr. Sparta said:


> I have this book I got as a gift for coming of  age teens. It has this whole chapter on pornography. It said that porn  can and WILL turn you into a serial rapist, and also that pornography is  an addictive drug on par with nicotine.
> 
> One google search debunked most of that.



Unfortunately arguments like this are why the government automatically filters my internet. :\

A paedophile murdered someone's child and the government shouted 'this man used to watch normal porn on the internet before he started watching child porn; obviously that slippery slope is what turned him into a sexual predator,!

They may as well have said 'this man wears shoes, and was even wearing shoes at the time of the attack; shoes lead to murder!'

As a result I have to put up with a big love heart appearing on my screen whenever I stumble across content my government views as too naughty. My parents could deactivate the filter, but chose not to...even when they know I have sexual encounters in real life, and even when I showed them the filter was blocking useful content as well as pornography and that pornography was getting through the filter anyway.
The youngest internet user in the house is my twin, who is 19.


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## Loubell (Mar 9, 2014)

Hm, well, as stated by others I think for yiff-haters the anthro animals hit a little too close to bestiality for their tastes and assume that if you yiff (a term they consider synonymous with all furries) then you must want to FUCK REAL ANIMALS which of course isn't true but people love a good scandal. And it does go untagged far too often and minors see the yiff art with all the odd fetishes.

tbh the first furry art/furry site I ever saw was just 100% porn, and it was sone of the first pornography I'd seen, too. I was way too young to be seeing that stuff, but I like to think that the early exposure made me more open minded. The furs depicted are always too human for me to associate them with real animals, anyway.

it'd be less of a big deal if a) people tagged their shit and b) people realised weird sex stuff isn't inherently evil and if they don't like it they should mind their own business instead of seeking groups who are into it and yelling at them.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 9, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> Wanting to have a wank is not an addiction.
> Addictions definitively have adverse consequences. No evidence exists to suggest that masturbation has adverse consequences.



According to you, but not according to my faith.  The meaning of one thing to you is not the same for me.  An addiction to you is not an addiction to me.  What you think is or isn't favorable isn't always what I think is favorable and unfavorable.

Masturbation, according to my faith, is a sin, regardless of Earthly consequences.  Wanting to masturbate is not an addiction, yes, but masturbating is a sin in my book and will also lead back to the path of pornography.

I would also prefer if we please stop talking about this.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 9, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> According to you, but not according to my faith.  The meaning of one thing to you is not the same for me.  An addiction to you is not an addiction to me.  What you think is or isn't favorable isn't always what I think is favorable and unfavorable.
> 
> Masturbation, according to my faith, is a sin, regardless of Earthly consequences.  Wanting to masturbate is not an addiction, yes, but masturbating is a sin in my book and will also lead back to the path of pornography.
> 
> I would also prefer if we please stop talking about this.



Not according to _me_; according to medical science. 

I'm glad you agree that the term 'addiction' was inappropriate.


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## Troj (Mar 9, 2014)

Of course, this begs the question of _why_ masturbation is a sin.

Some people point to the story of Onan (Genesis chapter 38 ) as the origin for prohibition against jerking off, but the story is actually about Onan either refusing to impregnate his brother's wife, or experiencing coitus interruptus, depending on your reading. After smiting Er, God commanded Onan to impregnate Er's wife Tamar, and instead, Onan pulled out and "spilled his seed upon the ground."

As the Interwebs like to say, "You had one job."

But, in context, you can see why this story isn't _really_ about jerking the gherkin.

What's more, given that your livelihood in ancient times depended upon your family's ability to produce sons to carry on your legacy and help you manage your family's property and affairs, it makes perfect sense that many early religions had prohibitions against "safe sex." 

But, life has changed dramatically for most human beings on this planet, so I'd say the old rules and rationales don't apply. The average human being today is not made or broken based on their ability to pop out tons o' sons.

But I digress.

Other people will say that the prohibition against slapping the salami actually has its origins in Matthew 5, 1 Corinthians 7, and/or  that business about not coveting your neighbor's wife. 

Of course, whether you're arguing from the position of one of these passages, or a combination of all of them, you're still making certain assumptions about why and how people masturbate that may or may not apply to all situations.

As I recall, some recent "Christian sex" manuals have started to say that mutual masturbation between husband and wife is a-OK, because it passes the aforementioned tests.

Personally, I tend to think that most Christians have inherited their reflexive queasiness around masturbation (plus many other attitudes and implicit beliefs they take for granted) more from the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, St. John Chrysostom and St. Augustine than from the Bible itself. (St. Augustine in particular was a real piece of work who really would've benefited from therapy, if you ask me--but, that's another topic.)

Other opinions on the matter:

http://beinghuman.blogs.fi/2013/01/04/why-masturbation-is-a-sin-in-christianity-15394812/

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-psyched/201206/masturbation-brief-and-rigorous-history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_masturbation 

http://www.net-burst.net/sexuality/masturbation.htm

http://queeringthechurch.com/2013/05/21/theological-endorsements-of-masturbation/

http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/christians-masturbation

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Sex

http://alexkwee.com/uploads/kwee_hoover08.pdf 

http://www.couragerc.net/Masturbation.html

http://beinghuman.blogs.fi/2013/01/04/why-masturbation-is-a-sin-in-christianity-15394812/


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## Destova (Mar 9, 2014)

I always heard male masturbation not only was a good thing, it lowered the risk of testicular cancer, and stopped wet dreams. Why any religion would want to help a person get cancer and make them have wet stains in their bed every once in a while is well beyond me.  :/


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## Fallowfox (Mar 9, 2014)

Destova said:


> I always heard male masturbation not only was a good thing, it lowered the risk of testicular cancer, and stopped wet dreams. Why any religion would want to help a person get cancer and make them have wet stains in their bed every once in a while is well beyond me.  :/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is goooood...


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## Destova (Mar 9, 2014)

I just watched that particular Monty Python a few months ago. That scene was awkward lol.


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## Troj (Mar 9, 2014)

Well, and in addition to the health benefits, the above study I posted confirms my notion that repression leads to obsession, and that shame takes up a lot of "head room" that would be better spent on other things.

If you see lust and/or masturbation as a "struggle" and a horrible sin, then you'll continue to struggle against it and obsess over it in the time it takes most people to beat off and _move on_. 

People tear themselves in knots over this, and over the long term, I don't think that's healthy.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 9, 2014)

_I deleted the content on this page for.... reasons_


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 9, 2014)

Troj said:


> Well, and in addition to the health benefits, the above study I posted confirms my notion that repression leads to obsession, and that shame takes up a lot of "head room" that would be better spent on other things.
> 
> If you see lust and/or masturbation as a "struggle" and a horrible sin, then you'll continue to struggle against it and obsess over it in the time it takes most people to beat off and _move on_.
> 
> People tear themselves in knots over this, and over the long term, I don't think that's healthy.



Personally, I worry more about my spiritual health and state rather than physical.  It may or may not be healthy to stress over it, but I don't care in the long run: Faith is all that matters in my case.

Agree or disagree, I don't care, but that's what I believe.  I took a study on this, and the best method to deal with pornography "addiction", and eventually immoral masturbation, that worked for me was "Radical Amputation", which cut me off from the Internet use, or at least limited Internet use, for a few months.  That helped me more than trying to rid of it myself.

There really should be a separate thread on this, though.


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## Wydo (Mar 9, 2014)

all I think is that though it is seen as bad, it shouldn't be seen as bad or good. This is because if it didn't happen then the people into it would go crazy repressing it and it wasn't hated then it would happen too much and be fucking weird. It should be neither good nor bad. It should just happen and stay as it is now. Its needed but it is also a dirty little secret some people in the fandom have. Yea it happens but it needs to happen.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 9, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> Personally, I worry more about my spiritual health and state rather than physical.  It may or may not be healthy to stress over it, but I don't care in the long run: Faith is all that matters in my case.
> 
> Agree or disagree, I don't care, but that's what I believe.  I took a study on this, and the best method to deal with pornography "addiction", and eventually immoral masturbation, that worked for me was "Radical Amputation", which cut me off from the Internet use, or at least limited Internet use, for a few months.  That helped me more than trying to rid of it myself.
> 
> There really should be a separate thread on this, though.



An increased chance of genital cancer wouldn't bother you at all? 

Religion fucks peoples heads. 

*sigh* at least 'radical amputation' didn't involve severing any body parts.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 9, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> An increased chance of genital cancer wouldn't bother you at all?
> 
> Religion fucks peoples heads.
> 
> *sigh* at least 'radical amputation' didn't involve severing any body parts.



First of all, no.  As I said, faith is all that matters to me; I have nothing to fear if I remain faithful and prepared for the paradise God promised.  Better than going to Hell.  I wouldn't expect you to understand since you are not religious, but all I ask is that you respect mine.

Second of all, how much exactly do I need to masturbate to "decrease" the chance of disease?  I've already done a lot of it in the past...


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## Fallowfox (Mar 9, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> First of all, no.  As I said, faith is all that matters to me; I have nothing to fear if I remain faithful and prepared for the paradise God promised.  Better than going to Hell.  I wouldn't expect you to understand since you are not religious, but all I ask is that you respect mine.
> 
> Second of all, how much exactly do I need to masturbate to "decrease" the chance of disease?  I've already done a lot of it in the past...



A God that tortures people for eternity for having a wank isn't worth worshiping. Stroking that God's ego would really be ironic, because you'd be massaging the biggest dick of all. 

I used to be religious, but even when I was I wasn't crazy enough to think God cared about whether I had wank or not. I sort of figured he was more preoccupied with things like human rights abuses, world hunger, etc. 

study in question: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=C383896B84658BFD7399FBB1CE1C7EA4.f02t04

I tried to find out whether medical authorities agree if this is a good study or not, but have thus far only found criticisms of other studies which tried to claim it _increased_ risk.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 9, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> A God that tortures people for eternity for having a wank isn't worth worshiping. Stroking that God's ego would really be ironic, because you'd be massaging the biggest dick of all.
> 
> I used to be religious, but even when I was I wasn't crazy enough to think God cared about whether I had wank or not. I sort of figured he was more preoccupied with things like human rights abuses, world hunger, etc.



God doesn't send anyone to Hell; humanity is already condemned to Hell, we can only be saved from it.  We perish with our sin, and God cannot let anything imperfect enter a perfect place.  No sin, no matter how small you think it is, can enter Heaven.  You don't let go of sin, you perish with it; for if you wont let go of it, then you go with it.

Now, I wont argue any further.  Not here, anyway.  The last thing I want is to derail this thread any further and have more religious battles taking place.  This should be a community of people who come together because we have one important thing in common; the love of furries.  This is supposed to be a community where furries of all religion, race, and beliefs can join together and just talk without worry of persecution.  We should accept each other, not question, and most importantly, we shouldn't fight over the Internet for someone else's belief.  I don't persecute homosexuals, atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, or anyone else.  Why, then, after I have tried to shut down the already derailed discussion, am I being confronted about this?  I respect yours, but why do you question mine?  Respect my choice to be a Christian; I wont change my mind as much as I wont change yours.

Agree to disagree, each to their own opinion and whatnot.


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## Fur4brains (Mar 10, 2014)

Personally, I love yiff. But the reason people hate furries because of yiff is simply because its what all furries are stereotyped in doing. And because of this, our fandom is seen as a sexually based community and it is through ignorance that we often find hate from the "outsiders".


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## Fallowfox (Mar 10, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> God doesn't send anyone to Hell; humanity is already condemned to Hell, we can only be saved from it.  We perish with our sin, and God cannot let anything imperfect enter a perfect place.  No sin, no matter how small you think it is, can enter Heaven.  You don't let go of sin, you perish with it; for if you wont let go of it, then you go with it.
> 
> Now, I wont argue any further.  Not here, anyway.  The last thing I want is to derail this thread any further and have more religious battles taking place.  This should be a community of people who come together because we have one important thing in common; the love of furries.  This is supposed to be a community where furries of all religion, race, and beliefs can join together and just talk without worry of persecution.  We should accept each other, not question, and most importantly, we shouldn't fight over the Internet for someone else's belief.  I don't persecute homosexuals, atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, or anyone else.  Why, then, after I have tried to shut down the already derailed discussion, am I being confronted about this?  I respect yours, but why do you question mine?  Respect my choice to be a Christian; I wont change my mind as much as I wont change yours.
> 
> Agree to disagree, each to their own opinion and whatnot.



Your choice to be christian and your gullibility to believe that wanking sends people to hell are two different things. [although questions should never be confused with 'lack of respect'.]

When people criticise this does not amount to persecution. If you want to understand why you're being criticised perhaps you should review your claims; that everyone who's ever wanked and doesn't feel guilty about it is imperfect and that all imperfect people deserve to be horribly tortured for eternity. 

You cannot preach tolerance with *any* sincerity when you believe anyone who disagrees deserves eternal torture.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Mar 10, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> Now, I wont argue any further.  Not here, anyway.



But you just had to get the last word in before you said this. Charming.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 10, 2014)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> But you just had to get the last word in before you said this. Charming.



If he wants to argue somewhere else, by all means, he can.  It's not about who get's the last word: I have tried over and over to kill the conversation before it get's derailed any further even before the religious battle started.

I'm the one trying to keep this thread from going to hell... no pun intended...

There is no last words to a pointless argument.


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 10, 2014)

Fallowfox said:


> Your choice to be christian and your gullibility to believe that wanking sends people to hell are two different things. [although questions should never be confused with 'lack of respect'.]
> 
> When people criticise this does not amount to persecution. If you want to understand why you're being criticised perhaps you should review your claims; that everyone who's ever wanked and doesn't feel guilty about it is imperfect and that all imperfect people deserve to be horribly tortured for eternity.
> 
> You cannot preach tolerance with *any* sincerity when you believe anyone who disagrees deserves eternal torture.



If you don't believe in that, then what are you worried about?  I'm not on here preaching hellfire on the forums, I only mention the word "Hell" (without even putting it in any context that involved anyone but myself) and then all of a sudden you go from a one to a ten.  If you don't believe that wanking brings you to Hell, or if you don't believe in Hell in the first place, then why are you criticizing me?  You don't believe in it, therefore you shouldn't even be _bothered _by it.  Buddhists believe in reincarnation: I don't believe in it, therefore, I'm not worried about it.

This conversation should have ended on page 3; it never should have continued for two more pages.

It is clear you don't like my beliefs, but you're not going to change them, so arguing about it is completely pointless.  You can call me gullible, stupid, and intolerant all you want; I'm not changing what I believe because some person can't handle my belief.  I didn't start any of this.


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## Sylver (Mar 10, 2014)

*ignores religious war going on above his post*

Personally don't have a problem with the mild yiff, I enjoy browsing through the pg / pg15+ stuff (thinks like an anthro wolf and leopard snuggling in bed or something). I'm not into the more serious yiff our there - I usually react to that stuff in a passive manner, something like "whatever" *clicks away*. The only time I see a problem with yiff is if it's about something like: baby, incest, bestiality, necro etc; honestly that is just so wrong, in any internet subculture's porn. I find the concept of things such as fat furs, micro or macro, vore and some other stuff slightly disturbing, but hey, each to their own.

Anyway, if the yiff is nothing like the sick shit I listed above (baby, incest, etc.) then I see no reason why other furies and non-furies should concern themselves over what other people create, watch and read.

Note: I apologise if there are any sentences that don't make sense in this. It can get messy when I try to word something correctly a few times.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 10, 2014)

Ohyoupokedme said:


> If you don't believe in that, then what are you worried about?  I'm not on here preaching hellfire on the forums, I only mention the word "Hell" (without even putting it in any context that involved anyone but myself) and then all of a sudden you go from a one to a ten.  If you don't believe that wanking brings you to Hell, or if you don't believe in Hell in the first place, then why are you criticizing me?  You don't believe in it, therefore you shouldn't even be _bothered _by it.  Buddhists believe in reincarnation: I don't believe in it, therefore, I'm not worried about it.
> 
> This conversation should have ended on page 3; it never should have continued for two more pages.
> 
> It is clear you don't like my beliefs, but you're not going to change them, so arguing about it is completely pointless.  You can call me gullible, stupid, and intolerant all you want; I'm not changing what I believe because some person can't handle my belief.  I didn't start any of this.



Because you're supporting the notion that people deserve to be tortured for petty things, which is awful frankly. 

It's like someone saying 'If I ran the world, I'd start off by burning everyone who ever ate chocolate on thursday,'. Hilarious..until everyone realises that said person is _actually serious_ and thinks that the angel gabriel will reward them for doing it. Even though the notion of them ever being in charge of any territory is absurd such an intent is nothing less than cancerous. 

Which is why the religious slurry frequently circulated about sending people to hell for masturbating is so toxic. One would have thought being enlightened and in touch with the divine would afford moral standards a little more elevated than a game of 'simon says'.


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 10, 2014)

If we could end this whole religious war before we have bloodshed, that would be nice...

Sure, the idea may be antiquated, but it more or less goes back to the idea of all life being sacred, even that of potential children. That's all I will add to the argument.


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## Troj (Mar 10, 2014)

re: Religion and Masturbation, my opinion, in a nutshell, is as follows:

1) As I discussed in my previous post, the mainstream Christian view of masturbation and sex didn't come out of a vacuum, and didn't exactly come straight from the Bible. I think Christians need to be aware of the history of their religion, and the origins of many of their beliefs, principles, and implicit assumptions. Upon learning those origins, they need to consider whether they still want to hold those same beliefs in the same way.

2) As a shrink-in-training, I don't think it's healthy to live under a dark cloud of shame, guilt, repression, and/or suppression, and to be constantly at war with yourself. 

I think it _is_ possible to set difficult personal goals for yourself in ways that _are_ healthy and life-affirming, but usually, this requires that your desire to meet this goal or transcend this challenge be *much, much *greater and more powerful than the temptation or desire to go the other way. 

For most of the mainstream Christians I've known, a lot of the prohibitions against sex and masturbation have basically amounted to _introjects_. Basically, this means that these Christians were always being pulled in two directions around these issues, and it really made their lives messy and chaotic_._ That's not a good way to live.

3) As someone who's studied theology, I can tell you that it is absolutely possible to be sex-positive and Christian, and that you can reconcile the two neatly, elegantly, and intelligently. Christians don't have to "choose," because there are many different ways to think about sex in Christianity.

4) As someone who's studied theology, I think mainstream Christians spend a lot of energy on things like sex, homosexuality, masturbation, abortion, and other topics that would actually be better spent on other thoughts and considerations, and I think some people can get so obsessed with this stuff that it negatively impacts their "walk with Christ." Personally, I think that if a person sees their practice of Christianity as basically sticking to a list of Rules--especially if that list is mostly "Don'ts"--they've lost touch with the essence of the faith.

5) Just personally, I think masturbation is sex with someone you love. It's the one chance you have to get exactly what you want in bed, without worrying about offending, hurting, or violating anyone else.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 10, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> If we could end this whole religious war before we have bloodshed, that would be nice...
> 
> Sure, the idea may be antiquated, but it more or less goes back to the idea of all life being sacred, even that of potential children. That's all I will add to the argument.



Every menstruation is sacred, every menstruation is great, if a menstruation is wasted? 

Life is super-fecund. There is no possible way people could look at a super-fecund system and honestly say they are worried about wasteage. The number of gametes produced by a man in a single ejaculation could fertilise every woman in western europe. God clearly isn't worried about whether a sperm goes astray here or there.


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 10, 2014)

but keep in mind these ideas came about well before the modern understanding of fertilization, and at a point when it was believed that there was a finite number of sperm a man could produce (which may actually be true according to some studies, but it's a VERY high number), the point is, this person has a different belief than the majority here, but he's entitled to that, so maybe we should just let it go and try to get back on-track here?


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## Ohyoupokedme (Mar 10, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> but keep in mind these ideas came about well before the modern understanding of fertilization, and at a point when it was believed that there was a finite number of sperm a man could produce (which may actually be true according to some studies, but it's a VERY high number), the point is, this person has a different belief than the majority here, but he's entitled to that, so maybe we should just let it go and try to get back on-track here?



Sniperfreak223 is our only solace.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 10, 2014)

sniperfreak223 said:


> but keep in mind these ideas came about well before the modern understanding of fertilization, and at a point when it was believed that there was a finite number of sperm a man could produce (which may actually be true according to some studies, but it's a VERY high number), the point is, this person has a different belief than the majority here, but he's entitled to that, so maybe we should just let it go and try to get back on-track here?




The earth is round, but I only follow philosophers who lived before eratosthenes, therefore I'm entitled to say the earth is flat. If people criticise me they're breaching my rights.

Really?


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## sniperfreak223 (Mar 10, 2014)

you're entitled to an opinion, but we're going on three pages of this back-and-forth now, in a thread about porn of all things, why can't we just let it go?


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## Phyre (Mar 10, 2014)

Dude,WTF...


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## Ozriel (Mar 10, 2014)

Can we try and keep religion out of a Furry tit-wank thread?! please?
if you want to discuss the evils of jacking off, start your own thread.


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## Roadkvlted (Mar 10, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> Can we try and keep religion out of a Furry tit-wank thread?! please?


But it's so related though. :V


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## Ozriel (Mar 10, 2014)

Anyways, I am on the whole "meh" thing with yiff, but sometimes the behaviors of the more hypersexualized members rub me the wrong way. 

Denying the porn within the fandom isn't going to make it go away anytime sooner. It exists and it is easily avoidable.  Either you can ignore it and look at the cleaner and more artistic images, or complain that it is this evil thing that needs to be purged from the fandom like some crazed Parental Watchdog on heroin. 



Daemonium said:


> But it's so related though. :V



How is "ur going to hell for wanking it" relevant to furfag fetish fodder?!
How?


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## Phyre (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm going to try and ignore the religious war on the upper side,for the sake of a friend...This is a thread about PORN.And then about Jesus and then about menstruation and sperm.Guys,do you actually go through what you're posting here?It's just...Wow....

Anyways,back on track...I dunno.I DO mind yiff,i'm not a porn addict,and...I'm kinda disgusted by ANY type of porn,really...So yeah.But i disagree with the fact that many people see us as perverts,as outsiders.I really don't understand why they respond so aggressively to...Our EXISTENCE.

"Furries,burn in Hell"

"Furries,go die in a hole"

"Let's kill furries with fire"

This is all really...Stupid.There are a lot of sick bastards making porn about ponies,and they STILL aren't viewed the same way as we are.Not all of us have the same tastes,we are not robots.Personally,i dislike yiff,as i said.But yiff is art,and i like every type of art.So you see,i really don't know what to think...I guess i'm okay with it existing,but i won't like to have anything to do with it.I wouldn't like to be browsing furry fanart and bust upon an anthropomorphic Rule 34(If you know what i mean).I guess it's okay,only it's a bit...Discouraging,that the first pictures we see on Google when we type "furry" are yiffs.I dunno,it's weird.But i can live with it,and learn to accept it,because i love this fandom,even though i'm new,and i'm looking forward to learning it's ways.just like dem nature documentaries on Animal Planet.

So yeah.

P.S.Let's not derail this thread any further,guys,okay?


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## Roadkvlted (Mar 10, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> How is "ur going to hell for wanking it" relevant to furfag fetish fodder?!
> How?


It isn't. Ssssssssarcasm. :V


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## Ozriel (Mar 10, 2014)

Daemonium said:


> It isn't. Ssssssssarcasm. :V



I know, rhetoric can break sarcasm y'know,


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## Roadkvlted (Mar 10, 2014)

Ozriel said:


> I know, rhetoric can break sarcasm y'know,


Well you know what. >:C Bean burritos. Take that!


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## Machine (Mar 10, 2014)

BAD POST. SORRY, YOU PEOPLE DON'T WANT RELIGION IN THIS THREAD. I WAS JUST SAYING HOW COMPARING *OMG FURRY HARDSHIPS* TO RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE AND RACISM IS GODDAMN RETARDED.

In terms of prejudice and persecutions, furfags don't know FUCK about suffering.


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## Sar (Mar 10, 2014)

Phyre said:


> I'm going to try and ignore the religious war on the upper side,for the sake of a friend...This is a thread about PORN.And then about Jesus and then about menstruation and sperm.Guys,do you actually go through what you're posting here?It's just...Wow....



Hey! That's not true! Sometimes we like to talk about our favorite caffeine products the the "copyright" issues regarding our Fursonas!
But seriously, the religion stuff isn't necessary. As much as beliefs are beliefs and it's your right; Religion has nothing to do with Furry Porn. Ever.



Daemonium said:


> Well you know what. >:C Bean burritos. Take that!


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## The Brain of Lazarus (Mar 13, 2014)

Sexuality and sexual identity are important, yes. There is a desire for more than that, however. I think many furries seek substance and don't want to be identified on the sole premise of sex, and the media does us no kindness in that regard.


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