# Laptops Battery



## thoron (Mar 7, 2010)

The power icon in the notification area seem to be stuck. It normally says 100% available (fully charged), today however it's telling me 100% available (plugged in, charging). I occasionally get this from time to time but it only last for 10 minutes to half an hour not for a entire day. Also the charge light on the front of my laptop has been lit all day even before I turned it on. 
     So I was wondering if all this might mean that battery in my laptop is wearing out? I've had it for approximately 3 years and the model is a HP Pavillion dv6000.


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## AshleyAshes (Mar 8, 2010)

thoron said:


> So I was wondering if all this might mean that ballery in my laptop is wearing out?


Possibly.



thoron said:


> I've had it for approximately 3 years and the model is a HP Pavillion dv6000.


Make that 'Absolutely'.

My battery still gives me 90mins when it used to give me 3hrs, but this laptop is five years old this Feb.  Time isn't actually a HUGE factor in battery wear as much as actually using the battery.  Every discharge/recharge cycle wears the battery out more and more.  To prolong battery life it's best to stay on AC power as often as possible.


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## thoron (Mar 8, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> Make that 'Absolutely'.
> 
> My battery still gives me 90mins when it used to give me 3hrs, but this laptop is five years old this Feb.  Time isn't actually a HUGE factor in battery wear as much as actually using the battery.  Every discharge/recharge cycle wears the battery out more and more.  To prolong battery life it's best to stay on AC power as often as possible.



I've never actually unplugged my laptop. It maybe a laptop in name however for the way the way it's used it may as well be a desktop computer.


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## ToeClaws (Mar 8, 2010)

Batteries are one of the least consistent things about laptops except for one thing - they all get worse as they get older.  The speed at which they degrade is often the big variable.

I'd say on average, you lose about 30 minutes a year of run time, but sometimes you get a real dud of a battery that can lose up to 50% of it's kick after the first year.  Sometimes you luck out and get a battery that really manages to hold a charge well.  Since you're using your laptop largely as a desktop and plugged in, it's probably not a major concern.  If it is, then check ebay for a replacement battery - you can often get a brand new one for a good price there (typically around $40 to $60).


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## PKBitchGirl (Mar 8, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> Possibly.
> 
> 
> Make that 'Absolutely'.
> ...



The computer shop and other people have told me when using AC power that you should remove the battery as even the AC power running through the battery when plugged in will degrade the battery.

BTW, my father's laptop is also a 3yr old HP Pavillion Dv6000, it's run on a universal charger ATM and the charger keeps falling out. If the charger falls out w/o me noticing even fully charged the most we get out of the battery is 20-30 minutes tops


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## Skittle (Mar 8, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> Possibly.
> 
> 
> Make that 'Absolutely'.
> ...


This yet you still have to completely drain it and recharge it from time to time.
Batteries have a memory, if you don't fully charge it the first time, it can mess it up forever. However, if the laptop is three years old than yea, age does that to any battery. Chemical reactions can only go for so long.


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## AshleyAshes (Mar 8, 2010)

skittle said:


> Batteries have a memory, if you don't fully charge it the first time, it can mess it up forever. However, if the laptop is three years old than yea, age does that to any battery. Chemical reactions can only go for so long.


 
Ha ha ha, are you trapped in the 90s? XD

Voltage depression was a problem for NiCad batteries and NiMH batteries.  It's not an issue on Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries which is what about every laptop since the year 2000 has used for power.

But thanks for not helping.


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## Skittle (Mar 8, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> Ha ha ha, are you trapped in the 90s? XD
> 
> Voltage depression was a problem for NiCad batteries and NiMH batteries.  It's not an issue on Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries which is what about every laptop since the year 2000 has used for power.
> 
> But thanks for not helping.


I listen to my husband who has had YEARS of experience in this field. It's still just a safe bet to fully charge it when you first get it. :/


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## ToeClaws (Mar 8, 2010)

skittle said:


> I listen to my husband who has had YEARS of experience in this field. It's still just a safe bet to fully charge it when you first get it. :/



Ashley may be a touch blunt, but he is correct.  That problem was mostly related to NiCad batteries, and to a lesser extent, NiMH.  Those two older batteries types were offered in the early 2000s as a "cheap" battery option, but nowadays they're gone.  Li-Ion and Li-Po are much more advanced and have a much better operation range and life.  They do, however, degrade over time, and the variable at which they do is pretty wide.


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## Runefox (Mar 8, 2010)

skittle said:


> I listen to my husband who has had YEARS of experience in this field. It's still just a safe bet to fully charge it when you first get it. :/



It's generally just a precaution - If you don't know what kind of battery it is, it's generally considered good practice to:

1) Fully discharge it (batteries typically come with some charge from the factory).
2) Fully charge it.

... Before seriously using it (in other words, a full charge cycle). That being said, I can't really think of any modern laptop whose battery is affected by this kind of thing.

Usually, Li-Ion batteries lose service life due to heat and general age/wear and tear. A battery will lose maximum capacity over time alone, but this can be accelerated by high heat, knocks and shunts, etc. As I understand it, for Li-Ion batteries, once a cell within the battery has reached a critical point, it's permanently shut down (there's a actual hardware security features that manage this physically). In some cases depending on the damage, refrigerating batteries can recover lost capacity by reactivating defunct cells' security features (by doing the opposite of what heat does - Contract the cells). Moisture concerns and realizing that there's probably a reason the cell was shut down in the first place make this a bad idea, however, and likely *unsafe*, if it actually does work for a given battery to begin with.

It's also possible that while the battery has reached its minimum capacity, safety equipment within the battery and general battery discharge can cause the charge within a cell to drop below usable levels; Special chargers can reactivate the cell by slow-charging it back to its minimum charge threshold.

*Anyway*, regarding the laptop battery in question, it's likely best to just replace it at this point. Three years is a long time for a battery, and usually you'll probably get about half-capacity out of it, anyway.

That having been said, I wonder if it's not the battery, but rather the charge circuit? Especially considering that the laptop can't seem to figure out when it's charging and when it's not.


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## ToeClaws (Mar 8, 2010)

Runefox said:


> ...
> That having been said, I wonder if it's not the battery, but rather the charge circuit? Especially considering that the laptop can't seem to figure out when it's charging and when it's not.



This is another good point as well.  Last year I replaced the ac adapter on a Compaq R3000 (circa 2004) because the charge indicator repeatedly keep coming up during normal operation.  The problem was that the ageing adapter was unable to provide a steady flow of power any longer, and it often dipped below a minimum threshold necessary for the laptop to assume it was on AC power.  Replacing the AC adapter (which only cost about $30) resolved the issue.


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## yiffytimesnews (Mar 8, 2010)

I think your battery is going bad.


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## Carenath (Mar 8, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> Voltage depression was a problem for NiCad batteries and NiMH batteries.  It's not an issue on Li-Ion and Li-Po batteries which is what about every laptop since the year 2000 has used for power.


NiCad sure, but I've never known a NiMH battery to suffer from any kind of 'memory' effect.

Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries need to have a minimum charge maintained in the cells, if they fall below the usable charge.. it becomes irreversable (in all cases I know of). I would also strongly recommend you *do not* freeze them. I tried that trick with an aging Dell Li-Poly battery.. and it completely killed the battery.

Now.. if someone here, has a way of 'fixing' the dead battery from my old 2006-era Macbook Pro, I would be delighted to know how. That laptop's gone through 3 chargers and at least one battery before I decided I'd lots my patience and grabbed (regrettably) a HP.
The battery in it now.. won't charge, although the charger will power the laptop just fine. Apple's System Profiler shows the battery has only gone through about 100 charge cycles. The battery's charge indicator doesn't light.. and I felt sick enough buying a â‚¬100 replacement power brick to see if one of the right rating would solve the issue.. but it appears the battery is bricked. I've since given it to my sister but a quick fix that gets the battery working as it should, would be awesome.


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## Willow (Mar 8, 2010)

The battery in my old HP laptop went bad...it got to the point where I could plug it into the wall and it wouldn't charge at all..or I'd have to move the cord around in order to get a good charge...eventually, the computer died...I was out of one for about 2 years, and was stuck using my mom's ancient laptop..that thing was painful to use...

But then i saved enough money to buy my own laptop..a new HP laptop :3


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## thoron (Mar 9, 2010)

Runefox said:


> *Anyway*, regarding the laptop battery in question, it's likely best to just replace it at this point. Three years is a long time for a battery, and usually you'll probably get about half-capacity out of it, anyway.
> 
> That having been said, I wonder if it's not the battery, but rather the charge circuit? Especially considering that the laptop can't seem to figure out when it's charging and when it's not.



Maybe this could help determine what's going on. 

Last night I decided to unplug it while it was turned off for the night to see if lowering the battery charge away from 100% would cause it to recharge as normal then go back to being fully charged. When I plugged it back in this morning the charging light turned on as expected, however it would stay on for a few minutes then turn off for about half a second and turn back on again. When I turned my laptop on this afternoon the power icon would tell me that the is at 99% available and it been holding there, occasionally it would go to 100% for a second then drop back down again.

I checked the battery and adapter status under device manager and iit sayed the both were functioning normally.


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## AshleyAshes (Mar 9, 2010)

Battery charge level is actually guessed based on a small fall in the voltage output from the battery.  If the voltage level isn't falling at the expected rate that it's calculation is based on then it reports incorrectly.


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## Carenath (Mar 9, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> Battery charge level is actually guessed based on a small fall in the voltage output from the battery.  If the voltage level isn't falling at the expected rate that it's calculation is based on then it reports incorrectly.


This is why you need to recalibrate the battery indicators by letting it run until it empties, then charging to full capacity.. doing so resets the upper and lower bounds. You will need to disable any automatic hibernate/standby settings to let the battery drain to it's minimum.


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## feathery (Mar 9, 2010)

thoron said:


> The power icon in the notification area seem to be stuck. It normally says 100% available (fully charged), today however it's telling me 100% available (plugged in, charging). I occasionally get this from time to time but it only last for 10 minutes to half an hour not for a entire day. Also the charge light on the front of my laptop has been lit all day even before I turned it on.
> So I was wondering if all this might mean that battery in my laptop is wearing out? I've had it for approximately 3 years and the model is a HP Pavillion dv6000.



Mine does that too, i try to cope with it i find it difficult.


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## thoron (Mar 9, 2010)

Carenath said:


> This is why you need to recalibrate the battery indicators by letting it run until it empties, then charging to full capacity.. doing so resets the upper and lower bounds. You will need to disable any automatic hibernate/standby settings to let the battery drain to it's minimum.



How would I go about doing this? My laptop is always plugged in. Also will letting my laptop power drain completely affect anthing?


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## thoron (Mar 12, 2010)

If anyone is still willing to help it seems that the available charge drops 1% about every two days, the computer is shut down during the day turned on in the evening and stays on until I go to bed.


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## Blaze Redwolf (Mar 14, 2010)

well the same thing sometimes happens to my battery. I don't think it's the battery wearing out. It's been doing this to me since i had my computar. I think i could be a small glitch with the laptop.


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## thoron (Mar 15, 2010)

Blaze Redwolf said:


> well the same thing sometimes happens to my battery. I don't think it's the battery wearing out. It's been doing this to me since i had my computar. I think i could be a small glitch with the laptop.



In the past occasionally when I turn my computer on it might have say 97% charge but then it would charge back up imediately in about half an hour to an hour. Now it stuck at less than full charge and like I said in my previous post it's dropping about 1% percent every two days. This only started happening last weekend and I've owned this laptop for about three years now.


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## thoron (Mar 17, 2010)

I just found out how to do a battery check on my laptop and it told me that the battery needs to be replaced. So what will likely be my last set of questions regarding this topic are: how much will a decent battery cost and where would be a good place to purchase it from?


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## Runefox (Mar 17, 2010)

Probably somewhere between $70~$100+, depending on the battery, and the _best_, though not necessarily least expensive place to order them from would be the original manufacturer.


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## Rhetorica (Mar 18, 2010)

For the record, one thing that's missing from this thread is the somewhat painful fact that *Lithium-ion batteries age regardless of whether they're used or not*. From the moment of manufacture they begin marching towards chemical equilibrium, and using them only speeds the process up. Even if it's been sitting on a shelf its entire life, a ten year old Li-ion battery will be dead (or quite near it).


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## yak (Mar 22, 2010)

I was just about to say what Rhetorica did. 
There are two major factors that affect the life span of a Li-Ion battery - age and temperature, with the charge level being a minor third. First gives it 9-12 months before the capacity drops below 60%, the second one makes the battery wear out at a significantly faster pace if it's above the room temperature. Third one isn't of any concern in a typical scenario and applies to storage mostly (charge to 45%, put in a freezer, take out and recharge every couple of months).

The battery usage in itself, as in, the number of recharge cycles, does not affect how long it would last. The perceived reasoning that is does is only because temperature rises during both charge and discharge which is what actually affects it.


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