# I don't know where Lag comes from.



## Staggard (Oct 5, 2014)

So first off I'll admit that I have NO idea how lag works and why it happens.  I don't know if it's because FA doesn't have the funding to make things run smoothly/quickly, or if they just don't have the support staff/volunteers to fix bugs/errors/whatever makes lag happen.

But it kinda scares me a bit since most of my business comes through FA.

Is there something that FA NEEDS in order to help it run smoother?  New programmers?  Better server-thingies?

I definitely don't know computer science


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## kayfox (Oct 5, 2014)

Staggard said:


> Is there something that FA NEEDS in order to help it run smoother?  New programmers?  Better server-thingies?



Better engineering.


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## Socks the Fox (Oct 6, 2014)

Protip: Don't base your business solely around something you can't control. If FA crashes and burns forever tonight, do you currently have somewhere else for your customers to find you?


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## Taralack (Oct 6, 2014)

It could also be caused by your ISP, by local internet traffic, by other people using your network, etc. Don't be so quick to blame a site if it's acting slow, half the time the problem is local.

Socks also makes a good point. If you know a site is prone to coming down a lot, have a backup place where you can direct customers to. My price list and commission samples have been hosted externally on Blogspot for years for this very reason.


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## RTDragon (Oct 14, 2014)

Well internet works here for other sites i go to namely deviantart so it's most likely a FA issue.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 14, 2014)

Should we be surprised by the lag? I usually have these events timed now. Surprisingly FA has done well too avoid a full on lag fest excluding last weeks thumbnail DB lag. Either way i see it. We should sit down have a nice cup of tea. While those with the ability to fix it. Do their work and find out what happened this time.


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## GamerFox (Oct 14, 2014)

Nanakisan said:


> While those with the ability to fix it









E: Actually it seems to be a problem with their network provider this time.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 14, 2014)

Phone: HULLO YESH THIS IS NEER OF FA!
ISP: Oh hello and what can we do for you today? (Oh god is that purple furry guy again...)
Phone: YES MEIN WEBSITE IS BORKED! FEEEEEEEX NAO!
ISP: Ahh yes yes we seem to be having issues right now. Please hold while our engineers beat the routers with their wrenches.


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## Dragoneer (Oct 14, 2014)

Nanakisan said:


> Phone: HULLO YESH THIS IS NEER OF FA!
> ISP: Oh hello and what can we do for you today? (Oh god is that purple furry guy again...)
> Phone: YES MEIN WEBSITE IS BORKED! FEEEEEEEX NAO!
> ISP: Ahh yes yes we seem to be having issues right now. Please hold while our engineers beat the routers with their wrenches.


More or less.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 14, 2014)

Ahh it's ok man. I know the feeling....I had my lovely run in with Comcast back in the days. I still want to personally locate the identity of 1 specific customer server rep....for reasons that shall go unmentioned.


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## Dragoneer (Oct 14, 2014)

It's just frustrating. Downtime is bad enough when it's something you're responsible for, but when it's out of your hands... the angst is 10X worse.


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

You using Inforelay as your only peer?


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

Seems there main router at for Inforelay at CoreSite is responding. So is internal on there end for the location. Might just be a local switch went down or something. It does not look like a doss.


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

Not many are. If you even have the ability to tinker with such things you got to know someone or pay alot of money :|


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## Dragoneer (Oct 15, 2014)

FireFoxinc said:


> You using Inforelay as your only peer?


InfoRelay has about 10 different peers it connects to. The problem is not with our peer, but an issue on the local level (I'm assuming one of the outgoing routers). IR has redundant gear for everything. I don't know what happened, but it's an issue of no data can get out of the datacenter -- for /anyone/. Not just FA, but for a few hundred other racks.

EDIT: ISP just contacted us. This was a massive DDOS that caused a huge disruption for us and a lot of individuals. We're trying to find out more.


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

Sounds like a aggregate switch crashed more then anything. It would be hard to find a true colo rack with A B power/net unless your paying a good buck for it. That or they simply did not config OSPF correctly.

Still a shame however.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 15, 2014)

Well either way at least this time it's not FA's fault. Let's keep drinking our tea gents.


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## GreenReaper (Oct 15, 2014)

From the description, it seems more likely that a server on the area of the hosting ISP's network which FA uses (not necessarily one of FA's own boxes) was insecure and got recruited into a botnet.


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

GreenReaper said:


> From the description, it seems more likely that a server on the area of the hosting ISP's network which FA uses (not necessarily one of FA's own boxes) was insecure and got recruited into a botnet.



That must be very massive if they are blacking large subnets.


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## GreenReaper (Oct 15, 2014)

Well, it said "your netblock". I don't know whether they meant FA's netblock specifically, or, say, a /24. Even one machine could cause problems for others if it had enough bandwidth, and presumably FA is in an area with gigabit connections - it had at least 350Mbit bandwidth as of 2012 (source).


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## GamerFox (Oct 15, 2014)

Neer needs to have a long hard look at his network management or at least hire an MSCE or whatever they're called


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## GemWolf (Oct 15, 2014)

*smiles and pretends to understand what everyone is talking about* 

lol anyway, yeah let's hope they fix it soon I'm getting FA withdrawals


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## marmelmm (Oct 15, 2014)

Where does Lag come from?  

The Lag Fairy, of course!  

-MMM-


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## GreenReaper (Oct 15, 2014)

FurryGemz said:


> *smiles and pretends to understand what everyone is talking about*



I think we're all trying to work out what's going on!


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## GemWolf (Oct 15, 2014)

GreenReaper said:


> I think we're all trying to work out what's going on!



Yeah I knew that 
My comment was referring to all the IT type comments haha it went way over my head. Computers? Yeah I can turn them on and use them....that's as far as I go. lol
In other words I was having a friendly lark


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

This is quite a long time for them to black a block :|


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## PheagleAdler (Oct 15, 2014)

They best get their asses moving on this, they're a business, if they're the least bit successful, surely they can afford to repair things in a timely manner.


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## GreenReaper (Oct 15, 2014)

Bear in mind that InfoRelay said the DDoS attack was "originated from" FA's netblock, not "was targeted towards".

If this is not just awkward use of English and the problem actually originated on one of FA's servers, it may be incumbent on FA to fix it first.


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## maxgoof (Oct 15, 2014)

marmelmm said:


> Where does Lag come from?
> 
> The Lag Fairy, of course!
> 
> -MMM-



Well, when a mommy Lag and a daddy Lag love each other very much....

https://www.weasyl.com/submission/685702/the-site-is-down


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## ventus (Oct 15, 2014)

What a bobby desler FURAFFINITY IS ONLINE AGAIN


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## Calemeyr (Oct 15, 2014)

Is the site still lagging or something? It's back but slow.


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## Chazykins (Oct 15, 2014)

ventus said:


> What a bobby desler FURAFFINITY IS ONLINE AGAIN


Yeah it's back on but glitchy as hell. I think they should put it in read-mode(or take it off)  till the problem is 
fixed completely.


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## Calemeyr (Oct 15, 2014)

Chazykins said:


> Yeah it's back on but glitchy as hell. I think they should put it in read-mode(or take it off)  till the problem is
> fixed completely.


If they take it offline/put it in read only mode to fix it completely, it will never come back online.


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## Chazykins (Oct 15, 2014)

Calemeyr said:


> If they take it offline/put it in read only mode to fix it completely, it will never come back online.


LOL! That's so true.


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## FireFoxinc (Oct 15, 2014)

It is going up and down. Seems they might be trying to narrow down where it is coming from.

It is kind of hard when it is effecting the whole dc. You need to guess, remove the black hole and just watch the network. I am sure they have a SLA that ensures %99.99 uptime so they cant keep other customers down for long without issuing free credit for downtime.


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## Swift12 (Oct 15, 2014)

Socks the Fox said:


> Protip: Don't base your business solely around something you can't control. If FA crashes and burns forever tonight, do you currently have somewhere else for your customers to find you?



There is no such thing as "gone forever" when it comes to the internet. Even if some troll managed to delete the site, there are backups on the servers. Also, the net now offers a TON of programs that can restore old vanished websites, free of charge.



maxgoof said:


> Well, when a mommy Lag and a daddy Lag love each other very much....
> 
> https://www.weasyl.com/submission/685702/the-site-is-down



And when we get the surprise reveal that Weasly caused the attack to get FA down...?  
I would not be surprised. This Weasel-thing has been trying really hard to leech off people, but controversies or not, it just cannot offer the same viewer-base for people who have been here a long time, neither is its interface friendlier - it's just a barebones Deviantart with clunkyness and barely any people around to comment or favourite your work. And I am not saying this about MY work, I am saying this about the work of famous artists registered on both places - the difference is quite a lot in views and favs.


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## Socks the Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

Are you seriously accusing Weasyl of doing this? Seriously?


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## Calemeyr (Oct 15, 2014)

Socks the Fox said:


> Are you seriously accusing Weasyl of doing this? Seriously?


If everyone in this world were rational beings, were would all the fun be?

Also FA down again, lulz.


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## Indagare (Oct 15, 2014)

Socks the Fox said:


> Are you seriously accusing Weasyl of doing this? Seriously?



Actually, I think he's joking. What confuses me is that according to what's posted the DDoS attack is coming _from_ the block with FA. This means it's unlikely to be any sort of external attack. Why someone on one of FA's own servers would do this is beyond me, though I suppose there's really no limit to human stupidity or spite.


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## Socks the Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't think it's one of FA's servers, I know the security can be full of holes but I think an arbitrary code exploit would have been found and used _looong_ ago. More likely it would be another owner's server that is in the same rack, or near by, and it's easier to just kill the router until they can figure out who's doing what.


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## Calemeyr (Oct 15, 2014)

Indagare said:


> Actually, I think he's joking. What confuses me is that according to what's posted the DDoS attack is coming _from_ the block with FA. This means it's unlikely to be any sort of external attack. Why someone on one of FA's own servers would do this is beyond me, though I suppose there's really no limit to human stupidity or spite.


It could mean that FA is has such poor security that hackers managed to have FA DDoS itself and the websites around it at the networking provider.

But I'm no professional computer guy. I'm just a grad student. So whatever. Still, would a little more communication hurt?


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## FoxWolfie (Oct 15, 2014)

Swift12 said:


> There is no such thing as "gone forever" when it comes to the internet. Even if some troll managed to delete the site, there are backups on the servers. Also, the net now offers a TON of programs that can restore old vanished websites, free of charge.



Actually, there is gone forever.  Many sites in the past have come and gone, never to be seen again.  Yes there are many backup and restore options, but there is a point where owners of sites will simply throw their hands in the air and give up.  Some will sell a site, while others will simply shut down forever.  I'm pretty sure the attackers, if they are actually targeting FA, are trying to hurt or kill FA.

I remember when InkBunny first appeared.  There were some users there who were often talking about ways to bring FA down, and laughing every time something went wrong.  They seemed pretty serious, as they hated FA that much.  It was non-stop ranting about the cub-porn ban, or how rotten of a person Dragoneer supposedly was.  I'm pretty positive that some of those people carried out attacks on FA back then, but there's never any proof.  I haven't seen that sort of talk there in a long time, as I unwatched anyone who had that sort of vengeful mindset a long time ago.  Most users on Ink Bunny weren't talking like that.  I think most of the bad ones moved over to Weasyl.  So many people on Weasyl keep telling me to dump FA, and I've heard so much hate talk against FA, that I simply unwatched everyone and went inactive there.  It's like they're on a mission to bring FA down and the convert its users.  The thing I never understand is why anyone feels the need to attack FA in the first place.  I have no problem with people leaving FA if they don't like it, and finding a new furry home.  I can respect that, since we all leave the sites that we don't like and use the ones that we do like.  But why must they be on a mission to see FA destroyed after they've moved?  They seem to thrive on hurting people, instead of making people happy.

I'm grateful that Dragoneer has never given up on FA. I don't know many people who could handle the pressure he must be facing. The thing I really don't like is that DDoS attacks can last for minutes, or they can last for weeks, and there is little that can be done to keep it from happening.  I just hope the attackers will finally give up and leave FA alone, or that they will make a mistake and get their asses caught. I'm assuming this attack is focused on FA and not some other site at the data center.

Oh, I'm not saying Weasyl is behind this, but just that many users on Weasyl have expressed extreme interest in having this sort of thing happen.


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## Indagare (Oct 15, 2014)

Socks the Fox said:


> I don't think it's one of FA's servers, I know the security can be full of holes but I think an arbitrary code exploit would have been found and used _looong_ ago. More likely it would be another owner's server that is in the same rack, or near by, and it's easier to just kill the router until they can figure out who's doing what.



The same logic (or lack thereof) applies if it's another server somehow attacking itself and everything around it.



Calemeyr said:


> It could mean that FA is has such poor security that hackers managed to have FA DDoS itself and the websites around it at the networking provider.
> 
> But I'm no professional computer guy. I'm just a grad student. So whatever. Still, would a little more communication hurt?



As Socks mentioned, it need not be FA with the poor security - it could be any of the other servers in the same rack or close to it. If I were into conspiracy theories, this would be a neat way for someone to attack FA without directly attacking it: hack into someone else's site and have it attack itself and everything around it. Whoever owns the offending site will likely get in trouble.

As for communication, I think poor Dragoneer is doing his best to keep _us_ updated, but I'm not sure _he's_ getting updated as much as he desires.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 15, 2014)

Sometimes it amazes me how quickly people jump to conclusions. While we are free to think what we want. We need to remember something here. Something that is incredibly important. We as a community have stood strong against such futile and pitiful attacks. Not so much on FA but virtually every furry website that has existed. FurAffinity is the #1 hub for our community. So it makes sense that the website gets targeted very often. However each website past and present has suffered roughly the same treatment. Each website has it's own internal community structure. But as a whole the fact applies that furries are just one big community.

So going off the deep end on saying websites like Weasyl and InkBunny had members that wanted to destroy FA. Should be burned to the ground is just simply horrid. I'm probably rambling at this point but honestly what point is there for us to sit here and bicker. Forgive me as i have a bottle of whisky and i've been enjoying it during FA's downtime.


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## GreenReaper (Oct 15, 2014)

Just so there's no misunderstandings, Inkbunny's administration have never wanted FA to be destroyed. We're all trying to provide services to the furry community, and it would be a great disservice to that community if its largest art site suddenly went away.


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## Indagare (Oct 15, 2014)

GreenReaper said:


> Just so there's no misunderstandings, Inkbunny's administration have never wanted FA to be destroyed. We're all trying to provide services to the furry community, and it would be a great disservice to that community if its largest art site suddenly went away.



Unfortunately, I don't think clarifing things is going to stop the conspiracy theorists. Some folks are so full of Flavor Aid that their brains have pickled. They already _know_ the Truth - it's just a matter of getting the other person to confess to it. Never mind that what they see as Truth and what is reality don't match; they're far beyond the capability of realizing this.

The idea of Fur Wars is only good for a spoof.


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## AliothFox (Oct 15, 2014)

Honestly, I don't think it's coming from other furry sites.  The people at Weasyl, if they're smart at all, will know that that would be a super dumb thing to do, because I'm pretty sure Weasyl is not the first place people would go if something happened to FA.  Toumal and the guys at SF are too chill to waste their time with that sort of thing.  And InkBunny has nothing to gain by FA dying out, because there are a lot of FA users (self included) who don't want to have anything to do with InkBunny because they don't want to be associated with a site that hosts cub porn.


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## Calemeyr (Oct 15, 2014)

If this isn't some FA-targeted attack by "trolls" and is actually some random attack on a large number of sites, this is actually more serious. That changes things from the perps being assholes to the perps being cybercriminals.


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## AliothFox (Oct 15, 2014)

> If this isn't some FA-targeted attack by "trolls" and is actually some random attack on a large number of sites, this is actually more serious. That changes things from the perps being assholes to the perps being cybercriminals.



They're cybercriminals anyway, Calemeyr.  A DDOS attack is illegal regardless of whether it's internal, external, targets one site, or targets fifty.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm just happy it's not a database failure like last time or a HDD failure the time before that.


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## AliothFox (Oct 15, 2014)

Nanakisan said:


> I'm just happy it's not a database failure like last time or a HDD failure the time before that.



Agreed.  That's probably yet to come once the site comes back up and gets flooded with people checking stuff X3

In all seriousness though, I'm still a bit pissed by how FA is handling it.  Obviously they can't make their ISP bring things up any faster, but they're doing the same "no updates" crap that they did back in December.  There's been hardly a word here on the Forums since this mess started.  And the last thing they said on Twitter was "the site is back up" - and it was up, but it's clearly not now.  They need to post a new update, even if it's nothing more than "We still don't have any new information."


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## GamerFox (Oct 15, 2014)

Now SoFurry is down too.


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## AliothFox (Oct 15, 2014)

And they just updated on Twitter right as I posted that.  I stand corrected.


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## AliothFox (Oct 15, 2014)

GamerFox said:


> Now SoFurry is down too.



I see that 

WE'RE UNDER ATTACK D:


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## Nanakisan (Oct 15, 2014)

Hmm don't mind me. I'm just taking the last life boat! TA TA!!!


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## StormyChang (Oct 15, 2014)

so... IB, SF, and FA completely down.. awesomesauce.  weasyl is still running ok for now, so lets see.  wonder if it's someone out there trying to make weasyl look bad.  like 'frame' someone sort of thing.. i dunno, that's all conspiracy shit   but either way, it is a bit aggravating when trying to post about commission openings.


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## AliothFox (Oct 15, 2014)

StormyChang said:


> so... IB, SF, and FA completely down.. awesomesauce.  weasyl is still running ok for now, so lets see.  wonder if it's someone out there trying to make weasyl look bad.  like 'frame' someone sort of thing.. i dunno, that's all conspiracy shit   but either way, it is a bit aggravating when trying to post about commission openings.



I'm beginning to wonder if this is even specifically targeting the furry fandom - other people are now telling me that Wal-Mart's site is down, and so is Pearson Education, and so is Norton Security and several others.  Whatever it is, assuming they're all connected, this is a MAJOR attack.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 15, 2014)

StormyChang said:


> it is a bit aggravating when trying to post about commission openings.



Which is why people really need to stop hosting their commission services on these websites. Many artists tend to have everything on a personal blog like tumblr or blogspot these days. /offtopic


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## marmelmm (Oct 15, 2014)

maxgoof said:


> Well, when a mommy Lag and a daddy Lag love each other very much....
> 
> https://www.weasyl.com/submission/685702/the-site-is-down



http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll216/marmelmm/Drawings/Affinitytruth.jpg

;-)

-MMM-


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## Socks the Fox (Oct 15, 2014)

Weasyl got targeted too.

OTOH they have plans in place for how to deal with this (step 1: use Cloudflare) so they're still up.


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## Nanakisan (Oct 15, 2014)

marmelmm said:


> http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll216/marmelmm/Drawings/Affinitytruth.jpg
> 
> ;-)
> 
> -MMM-



Odd for gods wrath. That thing is rather intact. I am disappointed. What ever happened to the good ole'days of proper smiting. Why back in my day smiting was done in a way that ensured nothing remained. -voice of zilean-


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