# Frank Gembeck got jailed for having child porn? D:



## SammyFox (Aug 18, 2009)

of all the people in this fandom, he's the one I would have never expected to watch that kind of stuff ._.

yeah yeah I know, old news and all, but I have just learnt about it.


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## Ricky (Aug 18, 2009)

Yeah, he was torrenting it if I remember correctly.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

There some kind of news story on this?

I learned how to google, and found said stories.


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## SammyFox (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> There some kind of news story on this?
> 
> I learned how to google, and found said stories.



http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Gembeck#Controversy

oops, didn't notice you had found what you were looking for.


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## Ozriel (Aug 18, 2009)

SammyFox said:


> http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Gembeck#Controversy
> 
> oops, didn't notice you had found what you were looking for.



I noticed that his father created an FA account to say that his son has dissapointed him.


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Ick(9,001)


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## Foxstar (Aug 18, 2009)

Yes. The FBI caught wind of him in 2006 and calmly watched up till they visited him in 2008 and let him know that he was toast. So he'll be spending five years in a fed lock up, likely kept by himself because everyone, from the KKK to the MS13 gang members hate pedos.  Then when he's out, he can't use the internet save for work and even -that- will be watched. Don't forget the sex offender lifetime listing, the complete unemployment, the stigma his boyfriend will have to deal with and of course giving the FBI yet one MORE reason to run passive surveillance ops on furries. I wouldn't doubt they found Softpaw on his drives when they took the PC in along with the offending videos and pictures.

God -help- Kage and the other con chairs if the FBI ever hits a furcon for a raid and nabs anyone, no hotel will ever want to touch the fandom again, ever.


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## Dahguns (Aug 18, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> if the FBI ever hits a furcon for a raid


they should make that a Rainbow Six level


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I noticed that his father created an FA account to say that his son has dissapointed him.



Gonna need a link to that.


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## tillin (Aug 18, 2009)

It's a real shame he did this. I'm usually not bothered about people's fetishes and sexual tastes, but child porn is too far.

He is a really great artist.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> Yes. The FBI caught wind of him in 2006 and calmly watched up till they visited him in 2008 and let him know that he was toast. So he'll be spending five years in a fed lock up, likely kept by himself because everyone, from the KKK to the MS13 gang members hate pedos.  Then when he's out, he can't use the internet save for work and even -that- will be watched. Don't forget the sex offender lifetime listing, the complete unemployment, the stigma his boyfriend will have to deal with and of course giving the FBI yet one MORE reason to run passive surveillance ops on furries. I wouldn't doubt they found Softpaw on his drives when they took the PC in along with the offending videos and pictures.
> 
> God -help- Kage and the other con chairs if the FBI ever hits a furcon for a raid and nabs anyone, no hotel will ever want to touch the fandom again, ever.



Heh, its funny how murderers, wife beaters and violent gang bangers suddenly get a conscience when a guy downloads pictures of kids.


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Heh, its funny how murderers, wife beaters and violent gang bangers suddenly get a conscience when a guy downloads pictures of kids.




Yep, that's life. The super jock (who only passed high school because of his F-ball skills) makes more money that most people do in a lifetime.   Life ain't fair.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Yep, that's life. The super jock (who only passed high school because of his F-ball skills) makes more money that most people do in a lifetime.   Life ain't fair.




Nope :/
.....................................................*does a gold prospector dance*


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Heh, its funny how murderers, wife beaters and violent gang bangers suddenly get a conscience when a guy downloads pictures of kids.


Just shows you how fucked up pedophilia is.

Attacking an adult who's perfectly capable of defending themself is one thing.
Sexually abusing a child is another.


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Nope :/
> .....................................................*does a gold prospector dance*




Did you just agree or disagree?

Mind if I join you in this prospector dance?


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> Just shows you how fucked up pedophilia is.
> 
> Attacking an adult who's perfectly capable of defending themself is one thing.
> Sexually abusing a child is another.



Sorry, but I find murder a lot worse. I'd rather have been fiddled than murdered.



8-bit said:


> Did you just agree or disagree?
> 
> Mind if I join you in this prospector dance?



You certainly may, but first, to qualify for said dance, you must have "GOOOOOLD IN THEM MINES, AH-HOOO!"


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Sorry, but I find murder a lot worse. I'd rather have been fiddled than murdered.



What if you were fiddled THAN murdered.  That'd be a double wammy of suckage.




Fuzzle said:


> You certainly may, but first, to qualify for said dance, you must have "GOOOOOLD IN THEM MINES, AH-HOOO!"



Oh, I has gold.


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## furrygamer84 (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Heh, its funny how murderers, wife beaters and violent gang bangers suddenly get a conscience when a guy downloads pictures of kids.


yeah I saw some inside jail documentary awhile ago and there was a child molester that got locked up and every other inmate wanted to kick the shit out of him or kill him. he had to be in his own cell and had to eat meals at different times


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## Ricky (Aug 18, 2009)

I think 5 years is too steep for what he did.

It was wrong and I think kiddie porn should be illegal but it's such an emotionally driven subject we now put it along the same level with actually molesting a child?  In this case he torrented kiddie porn.  It's bad but not the same thing, at all.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Who would want to hurt a little ole fuzzle? :'<

and you say YOU HAS GOOOLD?! GOOOOOOOOLD! AA-HOOO *knee slap* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w4B7QxL_n4&feature=related


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## Foxstar (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Sorry, but I find murder a lot worse. I'd rather have been fiddled than murdered.



Most of the most hard-core murderous bastards in prisons didn't kill kids. I can't wait to hear your reasoning downplaying child molestation tho. Also feel free to pull up the court docs and see exactly what Frank had. Then let's hear the spin.

FYI, child rapists and killers have ALWAYS been bottom rung in any state, county or federal prison. Always.


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## Foxstar (Aug 18, 2009)

Ricky said:


> I think 5 years is too steep for what he did..




lawl. AND IT STARTS FOLKS.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Sorry, but I find murder a lot worse. I'd rather have been fiddled than murdered.


I'd rather be killed than used as some sick pervert's wank toy.
Sad state of existence, right there.
Buuut that's me.

Besides, murder is hard-coded into our nature to overcome problems and the people that stand in the way of what we want to do.

Child fetishism is NEVER beneficial or necessary to anything beyond some sick fucks that can't get off by normal means.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> Most of the most hard-core murderous bastards in prisons didn't kill kids. I can't wait to hear your reasoning downplaying child molestation tho. Also feel free to pull up the court docs and see exactly what Frank had. Then let's hear the spin.
> 
> FYI, child rapists and killers have ALWAYS been bottom rung in any state, county or federal prison. Always.



Downplay child molestation? Can you tell me where I did that? I'm saying that prisoners are idiots for thinking they aren't s bad as someone who touched a kid. If that person KILLED a kid, then yeah, hes worse. I will absolutely not accept you insinuating I'm rationalizing molestation and child abuse.


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## Ozriel (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Gonna need a link to that.



I am not linking the FA account, you can easily find it by linking from the Said person's wiki article to his FA.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> I'd rather be killed than used as some sick pervert's wank toy.
> Sad state of existence, right there.
> Buuut that's me.
> 
> ...



How exactly is ending someones life and destroying their families beneficial in any way? You got your opinion and thats fine, but I absolutely would not choose death over living with the fact that someone touched in in a perverted way when I was little.


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## Ozriel (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Downplay child molestation? Can you tell me where I did that? I'm saying that prisoners are idiots for thinking they aren't s bad as someone who touched a kid. If that person KILLED a kid, then yeah, hes worse. I will absolutely not accept you insinuating I'm rationalizing molestation and child abuse.



You know that Kiddie porn (Real Photos) is mostly children forced into those situations through slavery, right?


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I am not linking the FA account, you can easily find it by linking from the Said person's wiki article to his FA.



I read all of that, I only found Franks personal page.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> You know that Kiddie porn (Real Photos) is mostly children forced into those situations through slavery, right?



Yeah, I am aware. How did I make you believe otherwise?


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## Ricky (Aug 18, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> lawl. AND IT STARTS FOLKS.



Oh no, an opinion :roll:

So do you really think it's the same thing?  I mean he was downloading stuff; I don't see how that's even close to the same thing as actually fondling a kid so why do they have similar penalties?

It needs to be illegal to protect the kids so there's no market for the stuff but 5 years is still steep IMO for simply downloading shit.


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## Ozriel (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> I read all of that, I only found Franks personal page.



Check the shouts.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

I really hate whenever you do anything less than call for someones immediate castration, people act like your a child molester sympathizer.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> How exactly is ending someones life and destroying their families beneficial in any way? You got your opinion and thats fine, but I absolutely would not choose death over living with the fact that someone touched in in a perverted way when I was little.


Conflict. Looting. 
Sure, the means may outweigh the pay by far, but there is still some drive. Some reason.

Child fetishism has none that is beneficial, nor hard-coded into us through human society's long existence.
It's a harmful fluke of a fetish, and there is no need for it. Ever.


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## Foxstar (Aug 18, 2009)

Ricky said:


> Oh no, an opinion :roll:
> 
> So do you really think it's the same thing?  I mean he was downloading stuff; I don't see how that's even close to the same thing as actually fondling a kid so why do they have similar penalties?
> 
> It needs to be illegal to protect the kids so there's no market for the stuff but 5 years is still steep IMO for simply downloading shit.



Most CP torrents are private and have to be paid for access to . And there's a little something called supply and demand. 5 years is nothing.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Check the shouts.




Oh, you mean that joke post. Didn't even notice that, but that is a 4chan thing.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Ricky said:


> So do you really think it's the same thing?  I mean he was downloading stuff; I don't see how that's even close to the same thing as actually fondling a kid so why do they have similar penalties?


Downloading is supporting it.
The more people watch, the more creators have reason to create.


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## Ricky (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> I really hate whenever you do anything less than call for someones immediate castration, people act like your a child molester sympathizer.



Again, this is because it's such an emotionally driven subject.  It freaks people out (with good reason) so people tend to act out on emotion rather than reason.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> Conflict. Looting.
> Sure, the means may outweigh the pay by far, but there is still some drive. Some reason.
> 
> Child fetishism has none that is beneficial, nor hard-coded into us through human society's long existence.
> It's a harmful fluke of a fetish, and there is no need for it. Ever.



There is no need for any crime. There is no benefit to murder and there is no benefit to child sex crimes.


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Woo, this is gettin tense.

I don't have a prob. with loli, but kiddie porn is BAD.  That kid is fucked up for the rest of his/her life.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> There is no benefit to murder


Looting and / or the resolve of a conflict via silencing your opponent.
I said that in the last post.

Why do you think wars happen?


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Woo, this is gettin tense.
> 
> I don't have a prob. with loli, but kiddie porn is BAD.  That kid is fucked up for the rest of his/her life.




Hey! You don't need to be thinking about anything but all that GOOOOLLD IN THEM MINES! AYEE-HEEE-HOOOO!


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## Ozriel (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Oh, you mean that joke post. Didn't even notice that, but that is a 4chan thing.



Not the crocodile one.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> Looting and / or the resolve of a conflict via overthrowing your opponent.
> I said that in the last post.



Oh okay, so the murderers sense of conflict eradication is beneficial. Relieving a murderer though his murder is considered a gain? Okay, try this on for size then. The pedo relieved himself countless of times, all of his frustrations urges through the CP pictures, does that mean thats a gain?


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Hey! You don't need to be thinking about anything but all that GOOOOLLD IN THEM MINES! AYEE-HEEE-HOOOO!




GOOOOLD!?  YEE-HAW!!!!!

Nazi gold?


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Not the crocodile one.



"Son I am dissapoint." Its a 4chan joke.

And why the crap is my pointer finger twitching out like crazy on my mouse?



8-bit said:


> GOOOOLD!?  YEE-HAW!!!!!
> 
> Nazi gold?



Naszi's don't have gold, they have ZEEHAVIN'STOCKSINFLOOBIN!


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## Ricky (Aug 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> Downloading is supporting it.
> The more people watch, the more creators have reason to create.



Right, which is why I said it should be illegal but you can't _equate_ it with the actual crime, itself.  At least that's my opinion -- 5 years still sounds steep to me.


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Aug 18, 2009)

Yes, it's also saddening to see he was such a great artist.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Oh okay, so the murderers sense of conflict eradication is beneficial. Relieving a murderer though his murder is considered a gain? Okay, try this on for size then. The pedo relieved himself countless of times, all of his frustrations urges through the CP pictures, does that mean thats a gain?


So you're saying murdering an adult, who's mentally and physically capable of defending themself, for monetary gain or through overthrowing one side of a conflict (which, btw, are of HUGE importance in this world),
should be of an equal or lesser value to taking sexual advantage of a child, WITHOUT nearly as much mental or physical grasp on self-defense, just to squirt some spooge?

You know, even when you could just jack off to a consenting adult who likes to do that shit?

The murderer's gains are of MUCH more important than the gains of the pedo.
How can you even _question_ that?
Jesus.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 18, 2009)

Ricky said:


> Right, which is why I said it should be illegal but you can't _equate_ it with the actual crime, itself.  At least that's my opinion -- 5 years still sounds steep to me.


Doesn't to me, at all.

Equate? So child molesters and the like are only in jail for 5 years?
I figured it would be much longer than that.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> So you're saying murdering an adult, who's mentally and physically capable of defending themself, for monetary gain or through overthrowing one side of a conflict (which, btw, are of HUGE importance in this world),
> should be of an equal or lesser value to taking sexual advantage of a child, WITHOUT nearly as much mental or physical grasp on self-defense, just to squirt some spooge?
> 
> You know, even when you could just jack off to a consenting adult who likes to do that shit?
> ...




Yes I can. Your honestly coming at this question of whats worth using the benefits of each crime? You kidding me? There is no way in hell taking someones life is more beneficial, and "not as bad" as molestation or what that entails. You can tell me that you'd rather be dead, but I find it hard to believe that your life would be in such horrendous and unimaginable disarray that you couldn't salvage even the tiniest shred of joy enough to want to continue living, benefiting others with your life and enjoying daily things that make lives worth living. I don't buy that being sexually exploited as a child is worse then killing someone and all the horrific damage that creates.

Both crimes are horrible, both should be punished severely and it doesn't really make a ton of sense to say whats worse...However, my whole point stems from the idiocy and hipocracy of criminals in jail who kill these sex offenders because of how bad they are when they themselves are in jail for a crime like murder. Think of it this way as well. One crime lands you 5 years in jail, another lands you in the electric chair or life.


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## Foxstar (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> I don't buy that being sexually exploited as a child is worse then killing someone and all the horrific damage that creates.



The murdered person is dead and can suffer no more. Loved ones suffer, but they heal over time. A molested child has to deal with a raw, sucking wound that can take YEARS, if not a lifetime to get over depending on the trama. It also results in a dysfunctional adult in in quite a few cases, results in the 'birth' of a new child molester.

Go to a local sex abuse victims group and ask some of the people who lived though it and then bring up your view points. You honestly have no clue. Go talk to a certified mental health doctor. Go talk to a pastor or a cop.


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## Hackfox (Aug 18, 2009)

Lolgo Child pr0n :3


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> The murdered person is dead and can suffer no more. Loved ones suffer, but they heal over time. A molested child has to deal with a raw, sucking wound that can take YEARS, if not a lifetime to get over depending on the trama. It also results in a dysfunctional adult in in quite a few cases, results in the 'birth' of a new child molester.
> 
> Go to a local sex abuse victims group and ask some of the people who lived though it and then bring up your view points. You honestly have no clue. Go talk to a certified mental health doctor. Go talk to a pastor or a cop.



Okay, you really think getting touched would destroy your life more than having someone you love, someone in your family with say...their head blown off? The murdered person having no brain to suffer anymore doesn't mean that his caring that hes dead is no longer valid. Don't even try to tell me that your murdered daughter is an event which you could "get over in time." You don't, you never will, so YOU have no clue. I can't imagine a world where its easier to get over your dead family member than it is for your individual self to get over molestation or pictures. As a kid, you don't understand what that means, what its for, why its happening, you realize later on and damage is done to your psychological state, understanding and a myriad of emotional behaviors. You can not convince me thats harder to get over or a worse sentence to your life then death. No way.


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## Takun (Aug 18, 2009)

You really have to be a sick, sick person to get off to child pornography.  If you've ever ran across it on an image board, you know what I mean.  It makes me physically ill just to look at.


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## Foxstar (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Okay, you really think getting touched would destroy your life more than having someone you love, someone in your family with say...their head blown off? The murdered person having no brain to suffer anymore doesn't mean that his caring that hes dead is no longer valid. Don't even try to tell me that your murdered daughter is an event which you could "get over in time." You don't, you never will, so YOU have no clue. I can't imagine a world where its easier to get over your dead family member than it is for your individual self to get over molestation or pictures. As a kid, you don't understand what that means, what its for, why its happening, you realize later on and damage is done to your psychological state, understanding and a myriad of emotional behaviors. You can not convince me thats harder to get over or a worse sentence to your life then death. No way.



Tell me, who have you had killed in your family? And when have your children been molested, so you can compare the trama?


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Naszi's don't have gold, they have ZEEHAVIN'STOCKSINFLOOBIN!




Oh, ok.

. . . Aztec gold?


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> Tell me, who have you had killed in your family? And when have your children been molested, so you can compare the trama?




Can you tell me the same?
Ive never had someone killed or someone molested, but I'm not blind to the effects that both of them offer. One involves a family broken, destroyed, and unresolved in incomprehensible amounts, and the other offers a full family, one person affected on a personal level, the family affected in a secondary level, and emotional traumas and damages. I honestly can't imagine how you see emotional and psychological afflictions due to past traumas as afflicting or life ending as someone whose life was taken away from them and the family whose missing life affects them in just as many psychological and emotional ways.

I don't like categorizing crimes by levels of evil, but in this case, I don't see molestation abuse as horrendously worse then a murder crime. However, you and I both laid out our arguments on the table, that's all we can do.



8-bit said:


> Oh, ok.
> 
> . . . Aztec gold?




You can't take Aztec gold, you'll end up cursed to walk the earth as the undead till the end of time.


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> You can't take Aztec gold, you'll end up cursed to walk the earth as the undead till the end of time.



Silly, that's only if your a pirate.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Silly, that's only if your a pirate.




But...you ARE a pirate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> But...you ARE a pirate.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU








I IZ NINJA!!!1!!


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)




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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


>




 IT BURNS!!!


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxY8lpYAUM


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxY8lpYAUM






Vegeta, what's the scouter say about his LOLing level.

IT'S OVERR NINE THOUSANNNNNNNND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT!? NINE THOUSAND!!!!?


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## QuixoticMutt (Aug 18, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Yep, that's life. The super jock (who only passed high school because of his F-ball skills) makes more money that most people do in a lifetime.   Life ain't fair.




I resent that comment XD

I play football and they are actually harder on the football players than anyone else at our school, dunno about other schools though :/


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Miko78 said:


> I resent that comment XD
> 
> I play football and they are actually harder on the football players than anyone else at our school, dunno about other schools though :/




Are you dumb? No? Okay, then.  I'm talking about those jock who DO just that.

It isn't fair.  At all.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Vegeta, what's the scouter say about his LOLing level.
> 
> IT'S OVERR NINE THOUSANNNNNNNND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> WHAT!? NINE THOUSAND!!!!?




Nah, the readers broken. It usually does that when you first turn it on. Ah! See? Yeah, its just 2.


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## Tycho (Aug 18, 2009)

So.

Fucking.

What?

He's jailed.  End of story.  The fandom likely already has a special place in the FBI's heart.  Plenty of pedos in other walks of life for the feds to track down and feed to Chris Hansen.

They need to start doing more than just throwing pedophiles into the clink and branding them as sex offenders.  This is mental.  These people will re-offend, over and over, if you don't fix the problem: their fucking mind.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Tycho said:


> So.
> 
> Fucking.
> 
> ...




And everyone knows, when you have a seat right over there...Chris Hansen is having your soul right over here.


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## Wolf-Bone (Aug 18, 2009)

Yes, when it comes to abusing children, it is a very emotionally charged issue, but there *is* a method to our madness. What did every totalitarian, genocidal culture throughout the history of human civilization all have in common? They tolerated and even encouraged "pederasty". It was to instill in people from the youngest age, before they even really develop self-awareness that it is natural and good to control others and to be controlled.

When you defend child pornography, yes, even the mere imagery, you are defending the thought that it is ok to rob a person of their humanity before it has even developed and doom them to be permanently damaged and possibly even become a monster like the person who tainted them with their sickness. You are defending the potential for that thought to be spread. Even the thought can not be tolerated. And those who are born evil enough to be capable of the thought must be *controlled by pure fear if they can not be kept ignorant of their true nature (God willing)*, because it is the only thing they understand. Don't you get it? They are not the same as us. It's the fucking laws of nature. *Five years isn't harsh enough!*

It's practically by cosmic design that we do not even need to think about hating and wanting to kill those people. This is two competing forces in nature at war here, not a fucking moral debate.


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Miko78 said:


> I resent that comment XD
> 
> I play football and they are actually harder on the football players than anyone else at our school, dunno about other schools though :/




My stepdad IS that guy.  Minus the get rich part.


And they STILL give F-ball players too much lenience in a massive chunk of the US.


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Can't we all just agree.............That the imagery of a Fuzzle in little socks is so adorable that you can't resist the impulsive urge to supply me with bunnehs?


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

8-bit said:


> My stepdad IS that guy.  Minus the get rich part.
> 
> 
> And they STILL give F-ball players too much lenience in a massive chunk of the US.




*whap!* Your supposed to be a furry, its "paw-ball".


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Can't we all just agree.............That the imagery of a Fuzzle in little socks is so adorable that you can't resist the impulsive urge to supply me with bunnehs?




I know I CAN'T HELP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! (OLOLOL)


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## TDK (Aug 18, 2009)

Not. Even. Surprised. Which is actually a shame just thinking about, I guess everyone should only be surprised he was caught. As I always say... don't look at the page if they underage!


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## Fuzzle (Aug 18, 2009)

Motor Mouth said:


> Not. Even. Surprised. Which is actually a shame just thinking about, I guess everyone should only be surprised he was caught. As I always say... don't look at the page if they underage!



How many situations could possibly occur in your life that you could use that phrase frequently?


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## 8-bit (Aug 18, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> How many situations could possibly occur in your life that you could use that phrase frequently?




Happens to me every day! (OLOLOL)


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## Attaman (Aug 18, 2009)

Oh FAF, where people will rush to the defense of Pedo Artists being "Unfairly" treated in prison for raping / wanting to rape children.  Guess what?  People don't react well to someone who abuses children.  You kill someone?  Maybe you have an excuse that's valid, or you're completely psychotic, or were under the influence of something.  Raping a child / using them for pornography / similar stuffs and / or supporting the above?  Not so much.


----------



## Zrcalo (Aug 19, 2009)

personally... I find it hilarious.







is it wrong?... I dont mind the child porn bit, but the whole thing about the FBI tracking him from 2006 to 2008 just makes me laugh so hard. 

gawd... lrn 2 proxy.


----------



## Amethyst (Aug 19, 2009)

I have a question; Say you were on 4chan or something and someone had posted childporn, It's their fault for posting it. You go past it quickly but could the fbi still use it as evidence against you?

Kinda interesting to see the varying views on whether murder is worse that childporn and vice-versa.


----------



## AshleyAshes (Aug 19, 2009)

Amethyst said:


> I have a question; Say you were on 4chan or something and someone had posted childporn, It's their fault for posting it. You go past it quickly but could the fbi still use it as evidence against you?


 
'Mens rea' is Latin for 'guilty mind' and 'actus reus' is Latin for 'Guitly Act'.  Both are the core basis for criminal liability in our legal systems.  It basicly means that if you wern't meaning to do something wrong and you wern't trying to domsething wrong, you didn't do anything wrong.  Of course these don't specificly and always apply, such as you can be guilty of a crime even if you didn't mean it was a crime.

However in this case you wouldn't have to worry.  There'd be evidence as to WHERE you got the image from, which could easily be proven to not be a source of child pornography and also the fact that you never archived the image.  Similar to how getting accidently locked inside a building doesn't leave you responsible for an act of tresspassing.  It wasn't your intention and it was beyond your control.

It should be noted that not only did Frank access this material online, he also archived it by burning it to optical disc which the police found in his place.  What ever it was, he wanted to keep it.


----------



## Werevixen (Aug 19, 2009)

I, too, think 5 years is too kind. I love his art, but he should burn.


----------



## Traumerei (Aug 19, 2009)

I want to say murder is worse than sexual abuse, but they are two totally different crimes. 

Viewing child porn, on the other hand, shouldn't result in your life being ruined. 5 years in prison is nothing compared to what will be happening to him afterwards.


----------



## Takoto (Aug 19, 2009)

Well at least he download porn rather than actually going out, kidnapping a kid and raping him/her. What he did was bad, yes, but you gotta give him a thumbs up for not raping a kid.

The guy was a good artist, has his FA account been banned?


----------



## Ratte (Aug 19, 2009)

Takoto said:


> The guy was a good artist, has his FA account been banned?



Probably.


----------



## Foxstar (Aug 19, 2009)

Zrcalo said:


> personally... I find it hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because the FBI has no way to deal with Tor. Nope, none at all. Also if you visited a honey pot, proxies or not, your screwed.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 19, 2009)

Isn't he the one some furfags kept trying to defend? Or ignored the allegations...

Anyway about the stupid thing in here going on between "Well it's better than being dead"....

They are both bad. They both take lives. One kills a life and forces the people who knew the person to deal with the pain of loss for the rest of their life, and the other (raping a child) destroys the child's life, and forces him or her to live with that pain and trauma for the rest of their life and puts up one huge road block that they have to learn to get past....one is not worse than the other. They are both equally bad.


----------



## virus (Aug 19, 2009)

Fortunately, this is a human condition deeply rooted in the brain. 100 or so years ago it was completely normal for a 30 year old man to marry a 13 year old.


----------



## Takoto (Aug 19, 2009)

virus said:


> Fortunately, this is a human condition deeply rooted in the brain. 100 or so years ago it was completely normal for a 30 year old man to marry a 13 year old.



Oooh how times have changed. I remember my friend, who's twenty four (in a few days, twenty five) who told me about that. 
He also wanted to date me at the time even though there was ten years between us in age, but anyways.  Yeah


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 19, 2009)

virus said:


> Fortunately, this is a human condition deeply rooted in the brain. 100 or so years ago it was completely normal for a 30 year old man to marry a 13 year old.



Actually it's more like people were married off at similar and ages around 13....back when they also though 5 year olds were competent miniature adults. 

Unless you're talking about early Mormonism...or related religions that did that kind of bull-shit. Just because a girl get's her first period, that does not mean she is ready mentally or emotionally to have kids and run a family.


----------



## virus (Aug 19, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Actually it's more like people were married off at similar and ages around 13....back when they also though 5 year olds were competent miniature adults.
> 
> Unless you're talking about early Mormonism...or related religions that did that kind of bull-shit. Just because a girl get's her first period, that does not mean she is ready mentally or emotionally to have kids and run a family.



Not in the south. It was sort of like a investment, marry them young and let them age a bit like fine wine when they hit 16-17 is when they pop the cork. Sorry for the terrible comparison.


----------



## ToeClaws (Aug 19, 2009)

Wow - didn't know that until seeing this.  You know - his art was great and all, but I'm sorry - child porn?  That's just nasty.  5 years was WAY too light a punishment for something that horrible.  I really wish they'd modernize the laws to put that sorta thing on par with other major crimes.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 19, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> And those who are born evil enough to be capable of the thought must be *controlled by pure fear if they can not be kept ignorant of their true nature (God willing)*, because it is the only thing they understand. Don't you get it? They are not the same as us. It's the fucking laws of nature. *Five years isn't harsh enough!*



For a nonviolent crime five years isn't harsh enough?  And don't tell me it's indirectly a violent crime because you are supporting the act by downloading the stuff.  It's two completely separate crimes that were committed.

Let me give an analogy.  You buy pot from a drug dealer who then kills another drug dealer because this happens in such a shady businesses.  You are supporting murder by buying something in a trade that carries out such practices but this should never equate to the crime of murder, itself.

It's an unbalanced punishment for the crime and the only reason it exists as such is because of the emotional weight the crime carries.  If someone doesn't directly hurt anyone in the crime they commit the punishment for that crime should reflect that.

It would make a lot more sense for mandatory therapy and possibly even a professional evaluation for assessment of chemical treatment, etc. rather than throwing them in prison for 5 years.  It would probably be more effective, anyway.  Anyone harming a child in that way however should go for at least that long if not longer (preferably the latter).



ToeClaws said:


> Wow - didn't know that until seeing this. You know - his art was great and all, but I'm sorry - child porn? That's just nasty. 5 years was WAY too light a punishment for something that horrible. I really wish they'd modernize the laws to put that sorta thing on par with other major crimes.



Again, it's a non-violent crime.


----------



## Tycho (Aug 19, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Wow - didn't know that until seeing this.  You know - his art was great and all, but I'm sorry - child porn?  That's just nasty.  5 years was WAY too light a punishment for something that horrible.  I really wish they'd modernize the laws to put that sorta thing on par with other major crimes.



Jail isn't going to fix the problem, it just takes them off the streets for a few years.  And gobbles up taxpayer dollars with every year.  Usually I think of criminal rehabilitation as bullshit, but it makes more fucking sense than to toss him into a special cell block separate from the rest of the inmates.  These people have broken brains.  Maybe while they're in prison they could be bothered to try and actually REDUCE the risk of reoffense? Also, lifetime labels of "sex offender" seem pretty harsh, but they need to keep track of them somehow.

Of course, I'm thinking of the less "malevolent" pedos, which are in the minority.  The malevolent ones, the power-tripper child molesters, the really bad apples, potentially violent - they need to be put somewhere where they can do no more harm than they already have.  I think the justice system would be wise to try and distinguish one from the other while they've got them in custody.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 19, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> Okay, you really think getting touched would destroy your life more than having someone you love, someone in your family with say...their head blown off? The murdered person having no brain to suffer anymore doesn't mean that his caring that hes dead is no longer valid. Don't even try to tell me that your murdered daughter is an event which you could "get over in time." You don't, you never will, so YOU have no clue. I can't imagine a world where its easier to get over your dead family member than it is for your individual self to get over molestation or pictures. As a kid, you don't understand what that means, what its for, why its happening, you realize later on and damage is done to your psychological state, understanding and a myriad of emotional behaviors. You can not convince me thats harder to get over or a worse sentence to your life then death. No way.



It is easier to get over a murder (if you haven't witnessed it) of a family member than the trauma of rape, but both can bee seen Analagous to each other when you take someone's/ruin someone's life. Rape victims live in fear and hate themseleves for allowing someone to do that to them. Most rape victims do not report it because of that fear to the point that they may lose their job.

Murder leaves anger and retribution against the person who has done so. Your soul becomes so uneasy that you know justice hasn't been properly sought and wished with all of your hear that you were there to in turn take the life who took someone dear to you. it is hard when loosing someone close, I know, but as time passes the heart can cope and move on. When Justice is served, you can move on quicker, but the pain is still there and everyday you think that the Murder suspect went off easy. 

That anger and depair can subside with time, but a rape victim's trauma will stay with them.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

Is this still being debated?

It's bad. He got busted. The End.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 19, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Is this still being debated?
> 
> It's bad. He got busted. The End.



Child Porn is bad, mkay?

You'll go to jail and get raped by an inmate, m'kay?


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Aug 19, 2009)

Ricky said:


> For a nonviolent crime five years isn't harsh enough?  And don't tell me it's indirectly a violent crime because you are supporting the act by downloading the stuff.  It's two completely separate crimes that were committed.
> 
> Let me give an analogy.  You buy pot from a drug dealer who then kills another drug dealer because this happens in such a shady businesses.  You are supporting murder by buying something in a trade that carries out such practices but this should never equate to the crime of murder, itself.
> 
> ...




Cut the crap. There is *no* similarity between me or anyone else smoking pot and downloading child porn. The two are done for reasons that are worlds apart. A pot smoker shouldn't have to defend his pot use assuming he does so responsibly, which in my opinion and that of many users includes not dealing with certain people. A pedophile *can't* defend what he's into or what he does to feed his illness.

Again, this isn't even really about morals when you drop all the charades. This goes back to our hunter-gatherer instincts, and therefor, *don't fuck with it, because you will lose, and you will be made an example of to those who perhaps could control their inner demons and need to have the fear of God put into them to do so!*


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Child Porn is bad, mkay?
> 
> You'll go to jail and get raped by an inmate, m'kay?




You made me OLOL!


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 19, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Cut the crap. There is *no* similarity between me or anyone else smoking pot and downloading child porn. The two are done for reasons that are worlds apart. A pot smoker shouldn't have to defend his pot use assuming he does so responsibly, which in my opinion and that of many users includes not dealing with certain people. A pedophile *can't* defend what he's into or what he does to feed his illness.
> 
> Again, this isn't even really about morals when you drop all the charades. This goes back to our hunter-gatherer instincts, and therefor, *don't fuck with it, because you will lose, and you will be made an example of to those who perhaps could control their inner demons and need to have the fear of God put into them to do so!*



In possession of Pot with no intention to distribute: Misdemeanor.

In possession of kiddie Porn: Felony.

Not Similar at all.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

Wow. Someone got their panties bunched.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't get why CP is so hard to understand.  CP can't be produced without harming children, and those who seek CP for pornographic purposes directly encourage the continued production of CP, thus directly encouraging the continued harming of children.  There's no "indirect" about it: If it exists, then a child was harmed, period.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I don't get why CP is so hard to understand.  CP can't be produced without harming children, and those who seek CP for pornographic purposes directly encourage the continued production of CP, thus directly encouraging the continued harming of children.  There's no "indirect" about it: If it exists, then a child was harmed, period.




What about anime?  I'm pretty sure no child was harmed.


----------



## Ackslawsin (Aug 19, 2009)

What a dick. For getting caught, that is.

I think I'll lay off the softpaw for a while. A long while.


----------



## gray_foxor (Aug 19, 2009)

Ackslawsin said:


> What a dick. For getting caught, that is.
> 
> I think I'll lay off the softpaw for a while. A long while.



Sicko.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 19, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Cut the crap. There is *no* similarity between me or anyone else smoking pot and downloading child porn. The two are done for reasons that are worlds apart. A pot smoker shouldn't have to defend his pot use assuming he does so responsibly, which in my opinion and that of many users includes not dealing with certain people. A pedophile *can't* defend what he's into or what he does to feed his illness.
> 
> Again, this isn't even really about morals when you drop all the charades. This goes back to our hunter-gatherer instincts, and therefor, *don't fuck with it, because you will lose, and you will be made an example of to those who perhaps could control their inner demons and need to have the fear of God put into them to do so!*



My point was they are both non-violent crimes.

If I'm understanding you correctly you are saying it has to be such a harsh punishment to ensure they don't do it.  OK, but the same could go for anything.  We should have punishments to act as a deterrent but the punishment should also fit the crime.

If you think 5 years in prison is a just penalty for downloading/torrenting this stuff even when nobody was directly hurt then I can't really argue -- that's just your opinion.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 19, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I don't get why CP is so hard to understand.  CP can't be produced without harming children, and those who seek CP for pornographic purposes directly encourage the continued production of CP, thus directly encouraging the continued harming of children.  There's no "indirect" about it: If it exists, then a child was harmed, period.



Direct and indirect causes are not very difficult to understand.  Someone was harmed directly by the people involved in the incident.  People torrenting CP are indirectly contributing to incidents like this by creating a demand for the stuff.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 19, 2009)

8-bit said:


> What about anime?  I'm pretty sure no child was harmed.



I knew this tact would be tried.  That was only recently classified by the Feds as CP by portions of a law (the Protect Act of 2003) that I think are stupid, unrelated, misdirected, and unnecessary.  Several courts agree, and the Supreme Court has expressed conflicting opinions.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I knew this tact would be tried.  That was only recently classified by the Feds as CP by portions of a law (the Protect Act of 2003) that I think are stupid, unrelated, misdirected, and unnecessary.  Several courts agree, and the Supreme Court has expressed conflicting opinions.




Ok. What?


----------



## Ricky (Aug 19, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Ok. What?



Translation:  FUCK THE PO-LICE!


----------



## Verin Asper (Aug 19, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Ok. What?


In other words:

FBI say "its the same as actual Child Pron, its lil drawn kids being either raped or in adult situtations without consent"

Half of Courts say "wait...what? This man/woman never touched a child or have thoughts of doing that to em, just have the material depicting it"

other half of court said "ITS THE SAME DAMN THING AS IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY DOING IT"


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

Ricky said:


> Translation:  FUCK THE PO-LICE!




OR ELSE YOU WILL EAT LOTSA SPAGHETTI FOR DINNER!




Crysix Corps said:


> In other words:
> 
> FBI say "its the same as actual Child Pron, its lil drawn kids being either raped or in adult situtations without consent"
> 
> ...




Kay. thnx for translation.


----------



## Ackslawsin (Aug 19, 2009)

gray_foxor said:


> Sicko.



Oh, I forgot to place the sarcasm tags. I'm dreadfully sorry.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 19, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Ok. What?



I don't understand this response, unless Crysix Corps translated it right.

Cartoons and drawings shouldn't be classified as child porn, but they are, and this is irrelevant to this discussion anyway.

According to the DOJ's statement, what he pleaded guilty to was possession of real child porn.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 19, 2009)

Ackslawsin said:


> Oh, I forgot to place the sarcasm tags. I'm dreadfully sorry.



Too late; you're now branded for life.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I don't understand this response, unless Crysix Corps translated it right.
> 
> Cartoons and drawings shouldn't be classified as child porn, but they are, and this is irrelevant to this discussion anyway.
> 
> According to the DOJ's statement, what he pleaded guilty to was possession of real child porn.





Yeh, your right.  I knew what you were talking about.

I just didn't know if the gov. really had made it illegal.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 19, 2009)

Original poster is surprised it was Gembeck.

I'm surprised people KNEW ABOUT IT AND DIDN'T SAY A GOD DAMN WORD as he attended Furcons and acted like a normal part of the fandom.

Makes you wonder how many OTHER higher up popular types are into this.

And it wasn't just "torrenting."  Dude got caught with two DVDs worth of torture kiddy porn.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

That's a lot of kiddie porn. 0__0


----------



## Ricky (Aug 19, 2009)

redcard said:


> And it wasn't just "torrenting."  Dude got caught with two DVDs worth of torture kiddy porn.



that's just sick D:


----------



## Takoto (Aug 19, 2009)

Did Franks boyfriend know he was looking at this kinda stuff?


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 19, 2009)

Takoto said:


> Did Franks boyfriend know he was looking at this kinda stuff?



Come on.

My boyfriend knows what I'm into almost perfectly.  And he knows where we keep the porn.  

And either way, there was over a year and change from when he HANDED THE FBI AGENTS the DVDs of kiddy porn and when he went to court that furries remained COMPLETELY SILENT on.


----------



## Takoto (Aug 19, 2009)

redcard said:


> Come on.
> 
> My boyfriend knows what I'm into almost perfectly.  And he knows where we keep the porn.
> 
> And either way, there was over a year and change from when he HANDED THE FBI AGENTS the DVDs of kiddy porn and when he went to court that furries remained COMPLETELY SILENT on.



Yeah, but having fetishes and looking at child porn are completely different levels.
I tell my Mum I like maids outfits, but if I looked at CP, I wouldn't tell her.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 19, 2009)

Takoto said:


> Yeah, but having fetishes and looking at child porn are completely different levels.
> I tell my Mum I like maids outfits, but if I looked at CP, I wouldn't tell her.



Fair enough.

But then why, after he got arrested for it and handed the kiddy porn DVDs over.. why did no one say anything?


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

Takoto said:


> Yeah, but having fetishes and looking at child porn are completely different levels.
> I tell my Mum I like maids outfits, but if I looked at CP, I wouldn't tell her.




Mmm, maid uniforms. . .


----------



## Verin Asper (Aug 19, 2009)

Takoto said:


> Yeah, but having fetishes and looking at child porn are completely different levels.
> I tell my Mum I like maids outfits, but if I looked at CP, I wouldn't tell her.


problem is unless ya an idiot...the FBI BEEN watching you, if you are smart, then there is a chance the FBI is watching you


----------



## Takoto (Aug 19, 2009)

redcard said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> But then why, after he got arrested for it and handed the kiddy porn DVDs over.. why did no one say anything?



What do you mean by "No one said anything"?


----------



## Verin Asper (Aug 19, 2009)

redcard said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> But then why, after he got arrested for it and handed the kiddy porn DVDs over.. why did no one say anything?


what in his defense?


its the freaking F to the B to the I

they been watching him either A) someone did tip them off or B)by rare chance to be the unlucky fucker to fall for an FBI bait


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Aug 19, 2009)

When it comes to the law and child porn, I'd really love to know who, if anyone, watches the watchers. What measures do they take to ensure that the people in their inner circle aren't becoming enforcers just to monopolize/have access with immunity to this filth?


----------



## Tycho (Aug 19, 2009)

redcard said:


> And it wasn't just "torrenting."  Dude got caught with two DVDs worth of torture kiddy porn.



...TORTURE kiddy porn?

That ratcheted up the sicko level a few notches.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 19, 2009)

Again, thought this would be over by now.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 19, 2009)

Takoto said:


> What do you mean by "No one said anything"?



I mean he was caught in the FBI honey pot in 2006, arrested AND INDICTED in February 2008, continued to interact and be involved with furries up until this story broke at his sentencing in January of 2009.

So that was nearly 11 months when nobody said anything, but people close knew.

More if you add in the fact that it was 2006 when he was obtaining, in the words of the press release 100 videos and 14 still images of minors engaging in "sexually explicit conduct that included .. .violent, sadistic, or masochistic conduct."

And .. nobody knew?  Really?

You furs are kind of funny.  You're afraid of the obvious cubfurs and cub art fans.  But how many, I wonder.. how many pedos are at the higher levels of furry?  You're paying all this attention to the obvious ones.. the ones who are all watched like hawks.. the ones like that "Panda" fur from PA who was what, arrested DAYS after being outed as a pedo, and in the furry cycles LATER THAT AFTERNOON?

That doesn't concern me.  What concerns me are the ones that are popular amongst you.   Those are the ones that'll hide it, and rape children, and nobbody will say a word because, hey.. who would believe it?  Soandso is a popular fur. They'd NEVER do that.


----------



## paxil rose (Aug 19, 2009)

Tycho said:


> ...TORTURE kiddy porn?
> 
> That ratcheted up the sicko level a few notches.



Oh Christ, I have this documentary on snuff films where it talks about a guy that made those. Some Russian, apparently known as one of the sickest sick fucks ever to exist.

He's not in jail anymore either.


----------



## Takoto (Aug 20, 2009)

redcard said:


> I mean he was caught in the FBI honey pot in 2006, arrested AND INDICTED in February 2008, continued to interact and be involved with furries up until this story broke at his sentencing in January of 2009.
> 
> So that was nearly 11 months when nobody said anything, but people close knew.
> 
> ...




Whos Panda?

And luckily, I'm not actually friends with any furries aside from WhiteKeaton, being my best friend IRL.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 20, 2009)

redcard said:


> I mean he was caught in the FBI honey pot in 2006, arrested AND INDICTED in February 2008, continued to interact and be involved with furries up until this story broke at his sentencing in January of 2009.
> 
> So that was nearly 11 months when nobody said anything, but people close knew.
> 
> ...



You act as if he tried to share it with the world, with his name attached no less.  If anyone outside the FBI did know, then the guilt is on those who knew, and no one else.



Takoto said:


> Whos Panda?



Alan T. Panda, busted for trying to get into a 15yo's pants.


----------



## Tycho (Aug 20, 2009)

paxil rose said:


> Oh Christ, I have this documentary on snuff films where it talks about a guy that made those. Some Russian, apparently known as one of the sickest sick fucks ever to exist.
> 
> He's not in jail anymore either.



*as-of-yet uninvented word to convey astonishment, shock and disgust on an extreme level*

It boggles my mind.  Really, the utter depravity is almost beyond my ability to comprehend.  I don't think I had ever heard "torture" or "snuff" and "child pornography" used together before, ever.

Wonder how long it'll take for the entirety of the fandom to wash their hands of him and his art.  He had talent, horribly wasted now.  Wonder what other famous sorts in the fandom had connections with him?

EDIT: It's like staring at the aftermath of a horrible car accident, this Gembeck thing.


----------



## Traumerei (Aug 20, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Actually it's more like people were married off at similar and ages around 13....back when they also though 5 year olds were competent miniature adults.
> 
> Unless you're talking about early Mormonism...or related religions that did that kind of bull-shit. Just because a girl get's her first period, that does not mean she is ready mentally or emotionally to have kids and run a family.



This isn't true, really. The guy was typically far older than the girl. Just take Edgar Allen Poe for example, who's wife Virginia was 13. 

or Lincoln's wife Mary, who was near a decade younger than him.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 20, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> You act as if he tried to share it with the world, with his name attached no less.  If anyone outside the FBI did know, then the guilt is on those who knew, and no one else.



And that is my POINT.

People knew, and we don't know who those people are.. only that one does not get arrested in your own home, get all your computers confiscated, and have a boyfriend living with you.. that doesn't happen in silence.  People knew.  Heck, read the comments / shouts on "Dustyn's" page, it'll become very obvious that people knew about this and feel that he was "railroaded" or "that we don't understand how nice a person Frank is."

Nice people don't download videos and images of kids getting tortured sexually.

And yet, there are a huge number of people who know , and knew, he did this.. before the rest of the world knew.  So did he try to share with the world?  Heck, we don't know.  We didn't know he did this until roughly 3 years after he did it.


----------



## Ikrit (Aug 20, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> problem is unless ya an idiot...the FBI BEEN watching you, if you are smart, then there is a chance the FBI is watching you


good thing i'm a dumb ass!
w00t!


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 20, 2009)

Traumerei said:


> This isn't true, really. The guy was typically far older than the girl. Just take Edgar Allen Poe for example, who's wife Virginia was 13.
> 
> or Lincoln's wife Mary, who was near a decade younger than him.


 
I don't seem to recall dating my words to American Revolution era. So why do you bring it up? Okay so that happens in that era but the further you go back in certain history the younger couples were. Part of it has to do with a lower standard of living, and shorter lives. When the average person dies at 30, the average marriage is going to be in the early teens. 

It's not going to be between people who are going to die soon and younglings. When cultures marry kids off, sometimes it is between adults and young teens, but the lower the life expectancy of the people the more absurd and impractical that becomes.


----------



## ToeClaws (Aug 20, 2009)

Ricky said:


> Again, it's a non-violent crime.



Yeah, but it's a sickeningly immoral one.



Tycho said:


> Jail isn't going to fix the problem, it just takes them off the streets for a few years.  And gobbles up taxpayer dollars with every year.  Usually I think of criminal rehabilitation as bullshit, but it makes more fucking sense than to toss him into a special cell block separate from the rest of the inmates.  These people have broken brains.  Maybe while they're in prison they could be bothered to try and actually REDUCE the risk of reoffense? Also, lifetime labels of "sex offender" seem pretty harsh, but they need to keep track of them somehow.
> 
> Of course, I'm thinking of the less "malevolent" pedos, which are in the minority.  The malevolent ones, the power-tripper child molesters, the really bad apples, potentially violent - they need to be put somewhere where they can do no more harm than they already have.  I think the justice system would be wise to try and distinguish one from the other while they've got them in custody.



Heh - agreed on the jail part.  Being the bitter old guy I am, I'd rather see all child-related crimes become death-penalty worthy (along with a lot of other crimes).  Best way to keep them from repeat offending is to eliminate them.


----------



## Takoto (Aug 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I noticed that his father created an FA account to say that his son has dissapointed him.



You do realize the "Son, I am disappointed" thing is a lesser-known internet meme? xD Probably just some FacePuncher or 4chaner fooling around.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Aug 20, 2009)

And here, folks, we have _the other breed_ of people God created evil just to ask us conscious folks what side of the fence we're on. I don't really know if I believe that Jesus died for the sins of man by God's will, and if he did, I don't believe he should have had to. But I get the point God and possibly Jesus himself was making in allowing it to happen. The lesson learned from that, at least by me is that if nothing else, he was killed for at least one of our sins, and that is our near-sexual lust for things like violence, revenge and our need to take our own misery out on whoever is available and by whatever rationale we can pull out of our ass to justify it to ourselves.

Tell yourself whatever you're going to tell yourself to believe you're right and I'm wrong, but I *know* there is no more a place for you in Zion than there is for those who would destroy a child. No, none of us are perfect. But none of us can _be made perfect_ and still hold on to certain things, and one of those things is the fundamental mental flaw that tells a person it's right to kill out of vengeance, to make a person a substitute for *the thing* you want to kill as if they were a token sacrifice.

And why is it still wrong even if there is no standard of either outside our own heads? Because if that's the case, killing a person denies them a right even child abuse doesn't - the right to earn back the right to live, and the right to learn how to do that. If there _is_ a God, though, from what I understand, he's pretty consistent in his logic and applies it evenly to people so as much as your kind might have some control over the present reality, which he allows you, ultimately, his ruling, which inevitably manifests in reality will win out over your best efforts to assert your rather limited might as being an adequate substitute for _right_.

TL;DR: There must be a damn good reason the vast majority of industrialized countries have abolished the death penalty when it would be much more convenient to serve the dual purpose of eliminating people who's mere existence (even in prison) poses a threat to stability _and_ vicariously taking their citizens' barely contained rage at the state of their own lives out on such a person rather than risk said citizens becoming the threat. Don't kid yourself. There's a part of them that really, really wants to take the easy way out, and they don't. There's something to be said for that, and it's too bad it can't be said of you.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 20, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> And here, folks, we have _the other breed_ of people God created evil just to ask us conscious folks what side of the fence we're on. I don't really know if I believe that Jesus died for the sins of man by God's will, and if he did, I don't believe he should have had to. But I get the point God and possibly Jesus himself was making in allowing it to happen. The lesson learned from that, at least by me is that if nothing else, he was killed for at least one of our sins, and that is our near-sexual lust for things like violence, revenge and our need to take our own misery out on whoever is available and by whatever rationale we can pull out of our ass to justify it to ourselves.
> 
> Tell yourself whatever you're going to tell yourself to believe you're right and I'm wrong, but I *know* there is no more a place for you in Zion than there is for those who would destroy a child. No, none of us are perfect. But none of us can _be made perfect_ and still hold on to certain things, and one of those things is the fundamental mental flaw that tells a person it's right to kill out of vengeance, to make a person a substitute for *the thing* you want to kill as if they were a token sacrifice.
> 
> ...



I've been staring at this post for a little bit trying to make sense of it...

I think there was talk about Jesus and then about the death penalty but I can't make heads or tails of most of it...

Are you asking why we don't have the death penalty for more crimes?  It's because we are not in the Middle Ages and we try to have fair punishments for a crime.  Winston Churchill once said you can judge a society by the way it treats its prisoners.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Aug 20, 2009)

Ricky said:


> I've been staring at this post for a little bit trying to make sense of it...
> 
> I think there was talk about Jesus and then about the death penalty but I can't make heads or tails of most of it...
> 
> Are you asking why we don't have the death penalty for more crimes?  It's because we are not in the Middle Ages and we try to have fair punishments for a crime.  Winston Churchill once said you can judge a society by the way it treats its prisoners.



I was explaining that last point to ToeClaws, you idiot.
Why I brought Jesus into it: he supposedly died for our sins, not the least of which is humanity's unquenchable thirst for the blood of its own kind. If sacrificing a human life for _our_ sins as much as those of the person being slain was _ever_ right, and I don't believe it was, it was supposed to have ended with him.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 20, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> I was explaining that last point to ToeClaws, you idiot.



Calm down there, killer.  I was just making sure we're on the same page and we are, so my point still stands:



> It's because we are not in the Middle Ages and we try to have fair punishments for a crime. Winston Churchill once said you can judge a society by the way it treats its prisoners.



...thoughts?


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 20, 2009)

Ain't no doubt that this choice of his is going to haunt him for the rest of his life.



redcard said:


> And that is my POINT.
> 
> People knew, and we don't know who those people are.. only that one does not get arrested in your own home, get all your computers confiscated, and have a boyfriend living with you.. that doesn't happen in silence.  People knew.  Heck, read the comments / shouts on "Dustyn's" page, it'll become very obvious that people knew about this and feel that he was "railroaded" or "that we don't understand how nice a person Frank is."
> 
> ...



You state that people knew, then you state that we (yourself included) don't know who those people are.  Without a source, the certainty of the latter negates the certainty of the former.  In other words, just what exactly makes you so sure anyone knew he had it before his arrest?

Edit: Let's start with how he was tipped off to the Feds.  We don't know whether anyone stumbled upon it then reported it, or whether he hit a honeypot and was caught actually downloading it, do we?


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 20, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> Ain't no doubt that this choice of his is going to haunt him for the rest of his life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair enough.

Let's pretend people didn't know before his arrest.

Certainly you'd agree that people knew AFTER his arrest, right?  Well, his arrest was in February of 2008.  Where were people commenting about it then?    He was actively part of the fandom in most of 2008.  Yet he was arrested for this in 2/2008. 

As for the people who knew?  Sadly, yes, there are a bunch of furs who came to his defense who knew about it, but many of their shouts have been pushed off page on Dustyn's FA page.

Even then, I don't KNOW for a FACT that they knew, just that they indicated that they knew.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 20, 2009)

redcard said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Let's pretend people didn't know before his arrest.
> 
> ...



After his arrest, there's no doubt people would suspect and speculate.  The seriousness of the charge attracts all kinds of attention.  However, it's inevitable that false rumors would intermingle with facts as news gets out.  Would you agree that most reasonable people would find it difficult to sort out the facts from the false?  Therefore, until the conviction or (in this case) the guilty plea, the only way anyone could know for certain is if he bragged about it or showed it off.

What this means is that, unless people step forward and say they knew before his arrest and did nothing anyway, anyone who knew between Dustyn's indictment and guilty plea and did nothing is himself blameless, for action was already being taken.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 20, 2009)

Takoto said:


> You do realize the "Son, I am disappointed" thing is a lesser-known internet meme? xD Probably just some FacePuncher or 4chaner fooling around.



Maybe.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 20, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> After his arrest, there's no doubt people would suspect and speculate.  The seriousness of the charge attracts all kinds of attention.  However, it's inevitable that false rumors would intermingle with facts as news gets out.  Would you agree that most reasonable people would find it difficult to sort out the facts from the false?  Therefore, until the conviction or (in this case) the guilty plea, the only way anyone could know for certain is if he bragged about it or showed it off.
> 
> What this means is that, unless people step forward and say they knew before his arrest and did nothing anyway, anyone who knew between Dustyn's indictment and guilty plea and did nothing is himself blameless, for action was already being taken.



Oh, bullshit.  

If it were a babyfur or cub art lover, it'd be all over furry without regard for the truth.

Because it's a popular fur, it should be kept secret, and he should be able to come to conventions and draw and sell porn to people, all along.

That's the part that bothers me.  Even CONCHAIRS didn't know about this, and as I said repeatedly and WILL say again..

It won't be a babyfur or cub art lover that'll nail furry  It'll happen when someone catches a popular guy in bed with a red badge at a convention and police are called.  

My complaint is that if this weren't Frank Gembeck, it would have been all over.  But because it's a popular guy, the furry response is to try to cover it up.

Do you honestly believe he's the ONLY one?


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 20, 2009)

Traumerei said:


> This isn't true, really. The guy was typically far older than the girl. Just take Edgar Allen Poe for example, who's wife Virginia was 13.
> 
> or Lincoln's wife Mary, who was near a decade younger than him.



I won't go into details of why people before the 21ist century married their daughters young, but your statement's a red herring.


----------



## Duality Jack (Aug 20, 2009)

I really find predatory sexuality as a whole perverse and sick, If they don't want it, or are too young to understand it fully... DAm I hate the sick fucks,. IF you are taking advantage of anyone for sexual reasons you should be shot.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 20, 2009)

redcard said:


> Because it's a popular fur, it should be kept secret, and he should be able to come to conventions and draw and sell porn to people, all along.
> 
> 
> My complaint is that if this weren't Frank Gembeck, it would have been all over.  But because it's a popular guy, the furry response is to try to cover it up.



It's a sad and convenient truth.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> It's a sad and convenient truth.




It is, isn't it?

Celebs. . .


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 20, 2009)

8-bit said:


> It is, isn't it?
> 
> Celebs. . .



You know if the ignorant furfags weren't blind cock suckers we wouldn't have as many problems in the fandom, including abetting a felon.


----------



## Tycho (Aug 20, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Heh - agreed on the jail part.  Being the bitter old guy I am, I'd rather see all child-related crimes become death-penalty worthy (along with a lot of other crimes).  Best way to keep them from repeat offending is to eliminate them.



I'm thinking more of a "No Escape" kind of situation.

Find a suitable island, dump them there, make sure they can't get off the island.  Coast Guard patrols around the island with orders to apprehend or kill any attempted escapees.  Give them the bare minimum for "amenities".  No electronics.


----------



## 8-bit (Aug 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> You know if the ignorant furfags weren't blind cock suckers we wouldn't have as many problems in the fandom, including abetting a felon.




If people could just get over themselves, this thread would be over.





Tycho said:


> I'm thinking more of a "No Escape" kind of situation.
> 
> Find a suitable island, dump them there, make sure they can't get off the island. Coast Guard patrols around the island with orders to apprehend or kill any attempted escapees. Give them the bare minimum for "amenities". No electronics.





NO ELECTRONICS!!!!!!  That's barbaric. > u <


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 20, 2009)

Tycho's solution does have a certain appeal.  The more I read about this, the more I think his sentence is much lighter than it ought to be.



redcard said:


> If it were a babyfur or cub art lover, it'd be all over furry without regard for the truth.



Ain't sensationalism fun?



redcard said:


> Because it's a popular fur, it should be kept secret, and he should be able to come to conventions and draw and sell porn to people, all along.
> 
> That's the part that bothers me.  Even CONCHAIRS didn't know about this, ...



Again with the conspiracy of secrecy.  Pardon my skepticism regarding conspiracy theories in general, let alone furry-wide conspiracies.  Is this documented anywhere, or is news of secrecy itself secret?

One does not normally introduce one's self as a convicted felon; that's not a furry cover-up, that's just human nature.  If you think he should've, then blame the government for not requiring him to do so, or for not locking him up the instant he pleaded guilty.  Also, people, even furries, are going to be completely ignorant of his crime after he does his time.  What then?  Will it still be a cover-up?

Also, I can't say anything about his fame before his arrest, since:
I wasn't even aware of his existence until this thread, let alone his art, and
I'm finding less about him and his works, positive or negative, than I am about lesser-known artists in the fandom's elder days.
He certainly didn't have the fame of Steve Gallacci, who is known for "Albedo Anthropomorphics"/"Erma Felna, EDF," and even got a TOW article written about his furry works.



redcard said:


> ... and as I said repeatedly and WILL say again..
> 
> It won't be a babyfur or cub art lover that'll nail furry  It'll happen when someone catches a popular guy in bed with a red badge at a convention and police are called.
> 
> My complaint is that if this weren't Frank Gembeck, it would have been all over.  But because it's a popular guy, the furry response is to try to cover it up.



See above, regarding the conspiracy of secrecy.



redcard said:


> Do you honestly believe he's the ONLY one?



How would you have me answer this question?  You're asking me to speculate without any evidence to support any conceivable answer whatsoever.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> You know if the ignorant furfags weren't blind cock suckers we wouldn't have as many problems in the fandom, including abetting a felon.



I don't think there's really that many problems...  There were a couple of people arrested for various creepy things but I'm sure you could find that anywhere.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> It's a sad and convenient truth.



Just like when a certain gay fur who has celeb status gave someone Aids....and all his friends still to this day try to cover it up and the guy gets certain perks at AC?

Then again furs are people, and people tend to bend over backwards for the celebs regardless of where you go.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 20, 2009)

@Trpdwarf: I completely forgot about that.



Ricky said:


> I don't think there's really that many problems...  There were a couple of people arrested for various creepy things but I'm sure you could find that anywhere.



This has been a bad year for the fandom regarding run-ins with the law, though.  Statistically minor compared to society at large, but still very bad for the furry image.  :<


----------



## Ricky (Aug 20, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> This has been a bad year for the fandom regarding run-ins with the law, though.  Statistically minor compared to society at large, but still very bad for the furry image.  :<



Yeah...  I'm really hoping it was just coincidence.  It all seemed to happen at once but I guess when it rains it pours.

Still, if you look at the larger picture there's not that much of a red flag.  I'm sure you could find such incidents in any group of a similar size if you looked hard enough.  Just the law of averages.


----------



## paxil rose (Aug 20, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Just like when a certain gay fur who has celeb status gave someone Aids....and all his friends still to this day try to cover it up and the guy gets certain perks at AC?
> 
> Then again furs are people, and people tend to bend over backwards for the celebs regardless of where you go.



Bwahaha, Christ. Seriously?


----------



## Dyluck (Aug 20, 2009)

I don't know who that person is and I don't care.


----------



## Werevixen (Aug 20, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> did you only post this to get +1 post
> 
> cause I only replied to get a free +1 post



Stop posting for free posts.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 20, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> Again with the conspiracy of secrecy.  Pardon my skepticism regarding conspiracy theories in general, let alone furry-wide conspiracies.  Is this documented anywhere, or is news of secrecy itself secret?



It has been documented in the past shouts on his page, but like I said, those get pushed off.  

See, I'm friends with babyfurs.  The reason I heard about all this was right after this happened, a certain older, grumpier fur who has a hard on for hating babyfurs, told them they were "next" to go for being pedos.  So I heard about this MONTHS ago.  This is "old news", really, in many forms.

As for his fame.. well.. clearly his fame is diminished, but not as much as you'd think.  He's still FAR more popular in Furry than many artists, with so many diminishing the pedo conviction as "not really Frank, and his art is what is important!"

I guess just depends what generation of fur you are.  For older furs, us Greymuzzles who fit in the 30+ range, this man was HIGHLY popular.  Suffice to say, his porn was.. well.. foundational to many furry artists.


----------



## Dyluck (Aug 20, 2009)

> did you only post this to get +1 post
> 
> cause I only replied to get a free +1 post



No, I posted that to make a point that this person doesn't matter for shit and that no one should waste even a second of their time caring.

You know I should have just said that in the first place but I've been trying to be less mean :V


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 20, 2009)

redcard said:


> It has been documented in the past shouts on his page, but like I said, those get pushed off.
> 
> See, I'm friends with babyfurs.  The reason I heard about all this was right after this happened, a certain older, grumpier fur who has a hard on for hating babyfurs, told them they were "next" to go for being pedos.  So I heard about this MONTHS ago.  This is "old news", really, in many forms.



I understand now.



redcard said:


> As for his fame.. well.. clearly his fame is diminished, but not as much as you'd think.  He's still FAR more popular in Furry than many artists, with so many diminishing the pedo conviction as "not really Frank, and his art is what is important!"
> 
> I guess just depends what generation of fur you are.  For older furs, us Greymuzzles who fit in the 30+ range, this man was HIGHLY popular.  Suffice to say, his porn was.. well.. foundational to many furry artists.



I qualify for the graymuzzle title, though with neither shame nor regret nor pride, just young-at-heart enthusiasm combined with aged reality checks.

We're exposed to different things and to the same things in different ways.  Most of the time, the differences are subtle, but sometimes they're drastic.  I try to look at history as much as I try the future, and his art still escaped me when looking at furry history.

He seems to have a decent style and a fair bit of talent, and only time will tell if his time behind bars impacts that at all.  That will never be an excuse in my book for what he did, though, and it's sad that it would be an excuse in anyone's book.


----------



## Verin Asper (Aug 20, 2009)

David M. Awesome said:


> No, I posted that to make a point that this person doesn't matter for shit and that no one should waste even a second of their time caring.
> 
> You know I should have just said that in the first place but I've been trying to be less mean :V


dont do less mean, it doesnt make you awesome like you are Sir Awesome
But yea this is over and done with so why are we still talking about it?

aha mods, I took back that +1


----------



## Armaetus (Aug 20, 2009)

Gembeck should not have any watchers, and those who STILL do after this broke out should be ashamed for supporting this sicko.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 20, 2009)

paxil rose said:


> Bwahaha, Christ. Seriously?


PM me some time.


----------



## HoneyPup (Aug 20, 2009)

Glaice said:


> Gembeck should not have any watchers, and those who STILL do after this broke out should be ashamed for supporting this sicko.


It's likely that these watchers didn't notice this. 
No point in watching a banned person anyways, but I doubt these people clean out their watch lists of banned artists. Probably too lazy.
There are probably people on my "is watching" list I haven't seen art from, but I don't bother to see if they are still around. I wouldn't negatively judge the 2000 or so people who are still watching this guy.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 20, 2009)

prettylilpup said:


> It's likely that these watchers didn't notice this.
> No point in watching a banned person anyways, but I doubt these people clean out their watch lists of banned artists. Probably too lazy.
> There are probably people on my "is watching" list I haven't seen art from, but I don't bother to see if they are still around. I wouldn't negatively judge the 2000 or so people who are still watching this guy.



lol...  My ex is on my watchers list and he doesn't even talk to me anymore XD


----------



## PROSTSHOCKERERER (Aug 21, 2009)

lmao

honestly, im surprised he wasnt a cub artist.

lolololo


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Aug 21, 2009)

K, after looking at his gallery, it actually is pretty obvious to me what age most of those characters are supposed to be, and they're not "cub", but they _are_ pretty damn young-looking.


----------



## GraemeLion (Aug 21, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> K, after looking at his gallery, it actually is pretty obvious to me what age most of those characters are supposed to be, and they're not "cub", but they _are_ pretty damn young-looking.



Frank comes from the California school of gay, with their love of twinks.  In the south, we'd call him "Parade Gay."  (As opposed to Antiquing gay and he's my roommate gay)   I won't define twink here, but youngness and femininity is part of the package.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Aug 21, 2009)

redcard said:


> Frank comes from the California school of gay, with their love of twinks.  In the south, we'd call him "Parade Gay."  (As opposed to Antiquing gay and he's my roommate gay)   I won't define twink here, but youngness and femininity is part of the package.



In that case I like California institute of educational gay just fine as long as none of them come near my kids. I guess it's cool they can marry their antique roomates now tho.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 21, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> @Trpdwarf: I completely forgot about that.
> 
> 
> 
> This has been a bad year for the fandom regarding run-ins with the law, though.  Statistically minor compared to society at large, but still very bad for the furry image.  :<



Do you know if it was confirmed for good that he did as many people accuse him?


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 21, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Do you know if it was confirmed for good that he did as many people accuse him?



No, I don't.  It's not really the sort of news I keep up with.


----------



## Ricky (Aug 21, 2009)

redcard said:


> Frank comes from the California school of gay, with their love of twinks.  In the south, we'd call him "Parade Gay."  (As opposed to Antiquing gay and he's my roommate gay)   I won't define twink here, but youngness and femininity is part of the package.



I like twinks <3


----------



## MikeApSykesthewolf (Aug 21, 2009)

Its sad that some people wank to children.... and i mean like perverted pictures of children.... it scares me...

HOLY@(*$&# HE WAS A CITY NEAR SAN JOSE?! NEAR ME?! NEAR FC?! OH GOD.... HE BAD >:O BAD BAD BAD!
OH GOD>.>


----------



## Foxstar (Aug 23, 2009)

MikeApSykesthewolf said:


> Its sad that some people wank to children.... and i mean like perverted pictures of children.... it scares me...
> 
> HOLY@(*$&# HE WAS A CITY NEAR SAN JOSE?! NEAR ME?! NEAR FC?! OH GOD.... HE BAD >:O BAD BAD BAD!
> OH GOD>.>



Pretty sure he attended FC too.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Aug 23, 2009)

Who the hell is Frank?


----------



## Ragnarok-Cookies (Aug 23, 2009)

Well for starters he didn't molest any children nor hurt one, he just downloaded from videos of other people doing so. Then found it hawt and touched him himself to them.

2 years in jail is RIDICULOUS, what if I went out and found snuff hawt. Then downloaded videos of people murdering other people, why would I be jailed for ANYTHING else other then not reporting a crime.

Subject of drawn porn, leave people to their damn fantasies. Do you want people touching themselves, or your children? Honestly it's somewhat a insult to freedom of expression since your DOING NOTHING WRONG legally, but since people don't like it. Your going to get ACTUALLY punished for it?

At most I might give him 3-6 months in jail or maybe even less for a slap on the wrist and tell him not to do it again.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Aug 23, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> Well for starters he didn't molest any children nor hurt one, he just downloaded from videos of other people doing so. Then found it hawt and touched him himself to them.
> 
> 2 years in jail is RIDICULOUS, what if I went out and found snuff hawt. Then downloaded videos of people murdering other people, why would I be jailed for ANYTHING else other then not reporting a crime.
> 
> ...



Are you....mental? Or high?

When people down-load/torrent/watch/fap to the actual content of people violating real children, it perpetuates a market for it. I'm shocked he didn't get more than 2 years.  So what if he did not touch the children, he's supporting the market of exploitation of children. People who do it are equally as bad as the people who watch and do nothing but get pleasure from in. One acts out and the other is an enabler. They should both get lengthy sentences.


----------



## Ragnarok-Cookies (Aug 23, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Are you....mental? Or high?
> 
> When people down-load/torrent/watch/fap to the actual content of people violating real children, it perpetuates a market for it. I'm shocked he didn't get more than 2 years.  So what if he did not touch the children, he's supporting the market of exploitation of children. People who do it are equally as bad as the people who watch and do nothing but get pleasure from in. One acts out and the other is an enabler. They should both get lengthy sentences.


I think your missing on the part were he gets a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again, this isn't a MORAL issue or a social issue. LEGALLY he did nothing wrong, I don't care of what he "deserved". It's a injustice that he was punished the SAME as the actual offender without any laws actually saying he should be.

Honestly people like you would get a technically innocent man (of this crime) in jail for a long time because of a personal fetish? How the hell would it "support a market", he was downloading it for FREE.

I AGREE with your first two sentences, but anything  past that is just personal belief that shouldn't account for how to punish a person like this.

3-6 months is more then enough, at most he can be liable at a Complicit level and indecency.

Am I equally as bad as murders if I like seeing people get killed? Morally maybe yes? Legally No. But oddly apparently you can judge me on the that if I went out and watched a "Saw" movie, and then went on the Internet and found a video of somebody getting murdered. Latter one would get me in jail because I'm just as bad as the murder?


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 23, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> I think your missing on the part were he gets a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again, this isn't a MORAL issue or a social issue. LEGALLY he did nothing wrong, I don't care of what he "deserved". It's a injustice that he was punished the SAME as the actual offender without any laws actually saying he should be.
> 
> Honestly people like you would get a technically innocent man (of this crime) in jail for a long time because of a personal fetish? How the hell would it "support a market", he was downloading it for FREE.
> 
> ...



Creating Child Pornography/Molesting: 25 to life

In possession of Child Pornography: 2-5 years, fine up to 150,000 and a 3-5 year probationary period.


Supporting the industry of Sexual enslavement is almost just as bad as making it. He's getting off pretty light considering the amount that he had on his computer.

You can still be at fault and not commit the crime.


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## Ragnarok-Cookies (Aug 23, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Creating Child Pornography/Molesting: 25 to life
> 
> In possession of Child Pornography: 2-5 years, fine up to 150,000 and a 3-5 year probationary period.
> 
> ...


Hrm never knew the actual punishment for procession of child pornography, People here were talking about punishing him exactly like it he was the one molesting the child. I was just defending the part that he legally did not actually molest the child, so why should he be punished as so?


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## Tycho (Aug 23, 2009)

You know, now I'm at a point where I'm actually kind of not-quite-sad-but-sorta-bummed.  He WAS talented, and he fucked everything up for himself with this shit.  Stupidity and depravity go hand in hand.  It's strange how a seemingly otherwise OK person will do something as stupid as act out on their urges, even though they KNOW it's wrong, they KNOW it's going to cost them dearly, they KNOW there's no way to salvage a reputation after getting caught (which is inevitable when you're as egregious an offender as Gembeck apparently was - that is a LOT of child porn to keep lying around).

The sentence he received is probably too light, but incarceration itself is not a total solution unless you plan on locking them away FOREVER (yay, let's REALLY fill up the jails).  But if the corrections system isn't going to try and find some effective method of preventing repeated offenses (tracking bracelets aren't a be-all end-all solution by a long shot, and chemical castration is a joke - completely pointless.), then it would behoove Gembeck to seek professional help post-incarceration.


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## Foxstar (Aug 23, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> Hrm never knew the actual punishment for procession of child pornography, People here were talking about punishing him exactly like it he was the one molesting the child. I was just defending the part that he legally did not actually molest the child, so why should he be punished as so?



And this thinking is why we have fanzines like Softpaw not only accepted by the fandom when 10 years ago they wouldn't have been allowed within 10 feet of a con, but promoted and even thought to be worthy of a award. I'm sure if the Eisner's had a write in, people would try to get it on there too.


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## Trpdwarf (Aug 23, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> Hrm never knew the actual punishment for procession of child pornography, People here were talking about punishing him exactly like it he was the one molesting the child. I was just defending the part that he legally did not actually molest the child, so why should he be punished as so?



He's not being punished as such. Still, I think the sentence should be longer.


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## Foxstar (Aug 23, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Who the hell is Frank?



http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Gembeck

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/dustyn


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## Foxstar (Aug 23, 2009)

Tycho said:


> You know, now I'm at a point where I'm actually kind of not-quite-sad-but-sorta-bummed.  He WAS talented, and he fucked everything up for himself with this shit.  Stupidity and depravity go hand in hand.  It's strange how a seemingly otherwise OK person will do something as stupid as act out on their urges, even though they KNOW it's wrong, they KNOW it's going to cost them dearly, they KNOW there's no way to salvage a reputation after getting caught (which is inevitable when you're as egregious an offender as Gembeck apparently was - that is a LOT of child porn to keep lying around).
> 
> The sentence he received is probably too light, but incarceration itself is not a total solution unless you plan on locking them away FOREVER (yay, let's REALLY fill up the jails).  But if the corrections system isn't going to try and find some effective method of preventing repeated offenses (tracking bracelets aren't a be-all end-all solution by a long shot, and chemical castration is a joke - completely pointless.), then it would behoove Gembeck to seek professional help post-incarceration.



He had a number of sessions with a shrink before they decided on what sentence to give him. It's all in the court docs.


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## Ozriel (Aug 23, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> Hrm never knew the actual punishment for procession of child pornography, People here were talking about punishing him exactly like it he was the one molesting the child. I was just defending the part that he legally did not actually molest the child, so why should he be punished as so?



Because he is downloading material that supports Child slavery. The people who download it create a demand, and thus increases the surplus of sexual slavery by people who create child pornography. The more you download, the more you help it grow. Same with people who go to/supply the area for dog fighting. 

When you download child pornography, you are knowingly supporting the industry of harming children for the sake of your pleasure which falls into human rights, but that's another subject for another time.


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## Wolf-Bone (Aug 23, 2009)

The thing is, a person who knows something is wrong but is driven strongly enough to do it anyway can, over time, develop an amazingly complex rationalization for it, to the point that it can seem even to a pretty smart person to have a certain logic. It's why two people can have similar personalities and commit the same crime for the same reasons with the same justification and only one might be a psychopath.

Gembeck likely convinced himself he'd never get caught and wasn't throwing away anything.


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## Foxstar (Aug 23, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> He's not being punished as such. Still, I think the sentence should be longer.



Given the type of content he had, he's lucky they aren't castrating him. And he got off really easy, they could have put him in Leavenworth for the rest of his life. And if the state DA or worse, the DOJ AG had caught wind, they could have put his boyfriend in the slam with him, which I'm sure at one point they thought about inditing him too.


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## Foxstar (Aug 23, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> The thing is, a person who knows something is wrong but is driven strongly enough to do it anyway can, over time, develop an amazingly complex rationalization for it, to the point that it can seem even to a pretty smart person to have a certain logic. It's why two people can have similar personalities and commit the same crime for the same reasons with the same justification and only one might be a psychopath.
> 
> Gembeck likely convinced himself he'd never get caught and wasn't throwing away anything.



As that Frank had a tech job, I don't know how he didn't think CEOS and the FBI wasn't going to catch him. Typically you go on till your caught and they didn't follow him for 3 years for nothing.


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## ArielMT (Aug 23, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> And this thinking is why we have fanzines like Softpaw not only accepted by the fandom when 10 years ago they wouldn't have been allowed within 10 feet of a con, but promoted and even thought to be worthy of a award. I'm sure if the Eisner's had a write in, people would try to get it on there too.



Not an appropriate analogy.  The critical difference is that the production of material like Softpaw doesn't involve sexually exploiting children.  As repulsive as it is, it is nothing more than fantasy.  What Frank pleaded guilty to was possessing pictures of reality.


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## Nakhi (Aug 23, 2009)

Just stop this. After reading this, I cannot believe that this can go on. We all know that as soon as this thread is locked, someone else will bring it up and an argument will ensue again.

How about we be smart here? (Actually, after reading this thread I doubt that is possible from any of you) By that I mean just say that you do or don't like it and leave it at that.

Now I have a few questions:
- What is the point of carrying this on?
- Where does it get us?
- Why have the mods not locked this thread and any other with these arguments?


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## Tycho (Aug 23, 2009)

Nakhi said:


> Just stop this. After reading this, I cannot believe that this can go on. We all know that as soon as this thread is locked, someone else will bring it up and an argument will ensue again.
> 
> How about we be smart here? (Actually, after reading this thread I doubt that is possible from any of you) By that I mean just say that you do or don't like it and leave it at that.
> 
> ...



Shut up.


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## Ratte (Aug 23, 2009)

Nakhi said:


> - Why have the mods not locked this thread and any other with these arguments?



Start posting some death threats and I'll start caring.


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## Y.I.H.F.F (Aug 23, 2009)

Who the fuck is frank gembeck?  a furfag who watches CP?  NO WAI CALL THE POWICE!!!


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## Skittle (Aug 24, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> I'd rather be killed than used as some sick pervert's wank toy.
> Sad state of existence, right there.
> Buuut that's me.
> 
> ...


Uhhh....I'm just gonna point out the Roman, Greek and almost any major past civilization. Now, I ain't sayin diddlin' little kids is right but people have been doing it ever since the beginning whether is be marrying their daughters out at the ripe old age of 12 or having older men fuck little boys so the seed of wisdom is passed on. I'm not saying is necessary or beneficial but it has been part of human civilization and culture since the beginning and in some parts of the world, still is.

I mean, apparently raping babies in Africa prevents AIDS? Who knew!


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## Fuzzle (Aug 24, 2009)

skittle said:


> Uhhh....I'm just gonna point out the Roman, Greek and almost any major past civilization. Now, I ain't sayin diddlin' little kids is right but people have been doing it ever since the beginning whether is be marrying their daughters out at the ripe old age of 12 or having older men fuck little boys so the seed of wisdom is passed on. I'm not saying is necessary or beneficial but it has been part of human civilization and culture since the beginning and in some parts of the world, still is.
> 
> I mean, apparently raping babies in Africa prevents AIDS? Who knew!



In Africa, all you have to do is make up the most ridiculous set of ritual ideas like shaking your butt with a belt of pigs feet and then killing a goat and everyone would believe it cures birth defects.


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## Wolf-Bone (Aug 24, 2009)

skittle said:


> Uhhh....I'm just gonna point out the Roman, Greek and almost any major past civilization. Now, I ain't sayin diddlin' little kids is right but people have been doing it ever since the beginning whether is be marrying their daughters out at the ripe old age of 12 or having older men fuck little boys so the seed of wisdom is passed on. I'm not saying is necessary or beneficial but it has been part of human civilization and culture since the beginning and in some parts of the world, still is.
> 
> I mean, apparently raping babies in Africa prevents AIDS? Who knew!



Uh, yeah. What was all those "civilized" people's number one pastime? Invading other people's territory, enslaving them, raping the women _and_ the kids, and throwing anyone who had a problem with this into an arena full of lions or nailing them to a cross. Their leader's were certifiably *insane*, the ruling class was one big tangled web of incest, and the kinds of people spawned by this "natural way of life" or whatever the fuck you're arguing it is were the ones who had the brilliant idea of _keeping_ the unemployed unemployed and blowing the state's fortune on bread and circuses to distract them. Because that totally proved to be a sustainable economic model.

Child abuse: exerting power over those unable to defend themselves because you can.
"Glorious" past civilizations: exerted power over those unable to defend themselves because they could.

We need to _remove_ ourselves from them, not aspire to them.


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## Foxstar (Aug 25, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Uh, yeah. What was all those "civilized" people's number one pastime? Invading other people's territory, enslaving them, raping the women _and_ the kids, and throwing anyone who had a problem with this into an arena full of lions or nailing them to a cross. Their leader's were certifiably *insane*, the ruling class was one big tangled web of incest, and the kinds of people spawned by this "natural way of life" or whatever the fuck you're arguing it is were the ones who had the brilliant idea of _keeping_ the unemployed unemployed and blowing the state's fortune on bread and circuses to distract them. Because that totally proved to be a sustainable economic model.
> 
> Child abuse: exerting power over those unable to defend themselves because you can.
> "Glorious" past civilizations: exerted power over those unable to defend themselves because they could.
> ...



This.


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## kryptik (Aug 25, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Uh, yeah. What was all those "civilized" people's number one pastime? Invading other people's territory, enslaving them, raping the women _and_ the kids, and throwing anyone who had a problem with this into an arena full of lions or nailing them to a cross. Their leader's were certifiably *insane*, the ruling class was one big tangled web of incest, and the kinds of people spawned by this "natural way of life" or whatever the fuck you're arguing it is were the ones who had the brilliant idea of _keeping_ the unemployed unemployed and blowing the state's fortune on bread and circuses to distract them. Because that totally proved to be a sustainable economic model.
> 
> Child abuse: exerting power over those unable to defend themselves because you can.
> "Glorious" past civilizations: exerted power over those unable to defend themselves because they could.
> ...



QFT again.


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## furry666 (Aug 25, 2009)

problem is it could very well mean they could of been as old as 17 or even a Japanese manga. Must find the details of this...
(Edit) yeah five years will do  him well *shudder*


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## Ozriel (Aug 25, 2009)

Fuzzle said:


> In Africa, all you have to do is make up the most ridiculous set of ritual ideas like shaking your butt with a belt of pigs feet and then killing a goat and everyone would believe it cures birth defects.



And fucking/eating a monkey prevents AIDs.


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## webkilla (Aug 25, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> And fucking/eating a monkey prevents AIDs.



i'm sure some weak-willed individuals would use that to joke about why there then isn't more canibalism in africa - but lets not go there, ok?

that would be mean and racist to say, and we dont like that kind of people, m'kay?


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## Ozriel (Aug 25, 2009)

webkilla said:


> i'm sure some weak-willed individuals would use that to joke about why there then isn't more canibalism in africa - but lets not go there, ok?
> 
> that would be mean and racist to say, and we dont like that kind of people, m'kay?



Don't go there.
And about have here will make racist comments.
Even I do.


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## Verin Asper (Aug 25, 2009)

Ratte said:


> Start posting some death threats and I'll start caring.


well then only way topics get locked if we devolve to sex, death treats, and invoke Godwin's Law


someone get to work


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## 8-bit (Aug 25, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> well then only way topics get locked if we devolve to sex, death treats, and invoke Godwin's Law
> 
> 
> someone get to work



Hitler is just like Hitler.  

You're welcome.


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## KarabinerCoyote (Aug 25, 2009)

Geez. There was a guy across the street from me who was busted for a similar offense a few years ago. I was watching the news live and the news teams was outside my front door. 
He's in prison but fighting the charges. A married man too.


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## webkilla (Aug 25, 2009)

KarabinerCoyote said:


> Geez. There was a guy across the street from me who was busted for a similar offense a few years ago. I was watching the news live and the news teams was outside my front door.
> He's in prison but fighting the charges. A married man too.



from what i understand of such nasty statistics, then the majority of child(sex) abusers are parents, or at least have similar control/access to children. 99% of CP isn't from abducted/sexslave/prostitute children, but from uncle touch-n-feel's photo collection of his niece and so.

spooky but apparently true

(saw it on some show about busting pedos by sniffing out their IPs online)


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## GraemeLion (Aug 25, 2009)

Well, that makes sense, Webkilla.  Especially with digital cameras.  Why risk downloading something that someone planted as a honeypot when the risk can be minimized.  These guys live in the dark.  They don't like leaving trails.  

When I worked as a photo lab manager, we saw a  few things that we'd refuse to print, and invariably, I'd get a "But I'm her uncle/aunt/grandfather."


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## monkeyspoon (Jan 13, 2010)

His was the first furry art i saw, its great.

Still a favorite, his pics bring back memories.


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## Keala The Tiger (Jan 13, 2010)

hmm that sucks


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## Grimfang (Jan 13, 2010)

Try to watch the dates of prior posts. Closing for moldy oldiness.


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