# Looking for a new pc



## lupinealchemist (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm basically looking for something that can play games around the Skyrim range of quality very well. Since numbers don't mean what they used to when it comes to hardware, what would I basically need, possibly within the $400 range or cheaper?


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## Runefox (Nov 12, 2013)

$400 range? That's pretty tight. Let's see what I can do.

This is what I came up with. It's $469.11, with the most expensive parts being the CPU and Windows. If you already have a copy of Windows that you can use, you can cut the price down by another $99, but for the sake of completeness I've included it along with a DVD drive which you may not need ($15) just in case. The A10-5800K CPU comes with a Radeon HD 7660D graphics processor, which should run Skyrim at medium quality without any trouble and without the need for a separate graphics card:






(X axis is frames per second)

I've also included a 1TB hard drive and 8GB of RAM, with room for another 8GB later down the road. The computer is also capable of taking a separate video card later on if needed to boost the graphics performance further. I wouldn't recommend it, but the A8-5600K is also capable of running Skyrim relatively well and would save another $24.

EDIT: Checked out Best Buy, this ASUS is the closest thing to those specs they have available, and it's $508.98. As far as laptops go, this HP Envy is the closest thing I could find at the low price spectrum and it runs $649.99.

EDIT 2: A few notes comparing this to the HTPC I specced in the Three Frags thread, the A10-6800K and A10-5800K are very similar, but the 5800K is less expensive. The difference in performance is in the single digit percentile, and the major advantage of the new chips is in support for faster RAM, which isn't on the radar here. The Crucial RAM is actually on sale right now, so it works out to be relatively decent memory for less than the Corsair I specced in the other thread. Finally, the hard drive can easily be swapped for a Western Digital if you hate Seagate for some reason - They're the same price.


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## Tailmon1 (Nov 12, 2013)

if you have an upgradable computer you can boost its power in many ways.
You can upgrade your video card to a nvidea 560 GT and more memory and
a faster or larger drive. Sound cards are cheap and you can upgrade there. 
What is your computer now? Model and specs?


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## Runefox (Nov 12, 2013)

Tailmon1 said:


> Sound cards are cheap and you can upgrade there.


Sound cards should never need upgrading unless they're 1) not working, 2) lacking features you want (eg. surround, S/PDIF), or 3) you're an audiophile.


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## Tailmon1 (Nov 12, 2013)

Cheap cards are nice if you only have on board sound. Who doesn;t like better sound for 
under 50 dollars and some of us love having suround when its available in a game. I sure do!


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## Runefox (Nov 12, 2013)

Tailmon1 said:


> Cheap cards are nice if you only have on board sound. Who doesn;t like better sound for
> under 50 dollars and some of us love having suround when its available in a game. I sure do!


Most onboard audio comes with surround and is actually a lot better than cheapo sound cards nowadays; The signal to noise ratio on the Realtek ALC898 is 110dB for playback and 104dB for recording, which is the same as (actually slightly better than) the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro's 109dB. Even the ASUS Xonar series generally has a 107dB SNR until you hit $100. Beyond SNR for the analogue outputs, digital outputs are always identical, and the only difference is in audio processing - Extra features like Crystalizer and virtual surround. Unless you need a high-end card for low-latency, high sample rate recording, there really isn't any reason to upgrade for sound quality.

There technically are other differences like swappable OP-AMPs, but $50 cards generally won't come with those features. The quality level only really increases when you start running into the $100+ sound cards, and again the digital output quality won't differ, only the analogue. Though there are audiophiles out there that say otherwise, they're the same type of people who think that high frequency audio is sent over the wire at a very slightly higher rate than low frequency over digital when it's a goddamn bitstream.


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## lupinealchemist (Nov 12, 2013)

Runefox said:


> very nice stuff


I'm currently using a GT640 and I love it; however, I said to a friend I'd sell my current pc to him if I get a new one but he wants the card as well. 

Do I need additional things like sound and network cards? USB ports are a must as well.

Edit: In case everyone needs to know, I'm currently using a shitty Compaq Presario with AMD Athlon X2 4850e+ dual-core, 3GB memory and 250GB HDD. You can see why I'm seeking an upgrade.


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## Runefox (Nov 12, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> I'm currently using a GT640 and I love it; however, I said to a friend I'd sell my current pc to him if I get a new one but he wants the card as well.


 As you can see, the GT 640 is just a little bit faster than the Radeon HD 7660D that comes with the A10-5800K, so you should feel right at home. Again, since it's not a stand alone card, it costs a lot less up front and if you find it's not doing the job for you, you can just slot another card in later on down the line.



> Do I need additional things like sound and network cards? USB ports are a must as well.


 The motherboard I specced in that build comes with a (wired) network adapter as well as surround-capable audio (the three jacks at the back of the motherboard are switchable; It will ask you when you plug something in what you've plugged in and adjust accordingly). Pursuant to the discussion above about sound cards, the Realtek ALC887-VD has a signal to noise ratio of 97dB, which isn't at all bad. This is something you can upgrade later on down the road if you find it necessary, though you will need to have headphones or speakers good enough to really hear the difference. As for USB ports, it has 2 USB 2.0 and 2 USB 3.0 ports at the rear, and the case has 2 USB 2.0 ports at the front. USB 3.0 can be used for any USB device, but if you have a USB 3.0 external hard drive, plugging it into a USB 2.0 port will severely limit its speed, so it's best to keep the 3.0 ports clear if possible.

 EDIT: Motherboard:




 Case:





 EDIT 2: I didn't catch it at the time, but the Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H combos in with the CPU and is a better board overall, with 2 extra USB 2.0 ports and a few other features you probably won't notice. It actually clocks in at about $5 more than the ASUS board, so there's no reason not to go that route.

 EDIT 3: That motherboard:





EDIT 4: Updated parts list - $467.49


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## Lobar (Nov 12, 2013)

Runefox's setup is probably the best you can do on that budget.  If you can save up a couple hundred more, your performance options open up a lot more.

Every current motherboard is going to have onboard USB, sound, and ethernet.  You don't need any expansion cards unless you need something specific like wifi.


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## Runefox (Nov 12, 2013)

If you want better audio (ALC-898 / 110dB SNR) and a bit more expandability, you can go up to the Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X. It bundles in with the A10-5800K as well, but it would bring the price up by $15 to $484.93. Personally, I'd recommend it, since it would be quite a bit more reliable over time.

That board:




EDIT: Updated parts list: $484.93


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## lupinealchemist (Nov 12, 2013)

Runefox's setup seems optimal at the moment. Sadly, this is only one of several possibilities come the holidays.


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## Runefox (Nov 12, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> Runefox's setup seems optimal at the moment. Sadly, this is only one of several possibilities come the holidays.



What other possibilities do you have for the holidays? Might be useful to know what else you're looking at. Also, do you need WiFi?


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## lupinealchemist (Nov 12, 2013)

Runefox said:


> What other possibilities do you have for the holidays? Might be useful to know what else you're looking at. Also, do you need WiFi?


My family really likes to buy retail bundles or laptops nowadays, and the family business is getting a little rocky this year so I'm not sure what I'm getting value-wise. 
...however, they will bluff and get what you're asking for. (most of the time)
Also, I have a wifi adapter. Thanks for asking.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 13, 2013)

Agreed on the Runefox suggestions.  That's a bit of a tight budget, but at least it can buy enough of a box to later be expanded.  In the mean time, if you were considering any updates to the existing system, I would not recommend it.  It likely uses DDR2 RAM which is stupidly expensive now, and even adding a better video card (Which could be moved to the new box) would likely require a new power supply (which may not fit in a proprietary case).  Best to just pocket any spare cash and put it toward the replacement.


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## lupinealchemist (Nov 16, 2013)

My family suggested I get a laptop which would be fine and dandy if it wasn't such a high price for disappointing hardware. I'm gonna suggest getting a retail tower for around $400-$600 and upgrade it if necessary over time.

As for selling the old one to the friend, that's not happening. He was trying to screw me over the price. I told him the video card was around $90-$100 and nearly a year old, I wasn't even going to see half of that back; so it stays with me.


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## Runefox (Nov 17, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> My family suggested I get a laptop which would be fine and dandy if it wasn't such a high price for disappointing hardware. I'm gonna suggest getting a retail tower for around $400-$600 and upgrade it if necessary over time.


How about this? Kind of light on RAM but that can be upgraded later on pretty cheaply. A10 with Radeon 8650G, should handle things pretty well overall. But not going to last for long as far as performance goes, since the graphics can't be upgraded at a later date.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 18, 2013)

Runefox said:


> How about this? Kind of light on RAM but that can be upgraded later on pretty cheaply. A10 with Radeon 8650G, should handle things pretty well overall. But not going to last for long as far as performance goes, since the graphics can't be upgraded at a later date.



AMD's APUs do offer an interesting compromise that wasn't realistic a short few years back.  As Runefox said, this will provide admirable performance for a decent price, just no real longevity.  Laptops can rarely be updated, graphics wise, and in this case definitely cannot be as the GPU and CPU are combined into one chip.  

A second risk with laptops is burn-out.  If you play a lot of games on it, you're going to be operating the unit at high temperatures a lot of the time, and that increases the risk of burning the unit out.  If you look at laptops designed specifically for gaming, they tend to be pretty big and fat, with a lot of extra cooling capability for that reason.

I would still say tower is the best route if you want something you can upgrade and make last for a few years.  The A10-based laptop would suffice if you're planning on getting another system within the next couple years (in which case the laptop could become a secondary computer).


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## lupinealchemist (Nov 18, 2013)

Welp, my stepfather strongly believes laptops are the way to go. Since he is also my semi-employer, I have little choice in the matter. 
While I admire the mobility, I just hope Skyrim and ESO work fairly well on it and find some way to keep it cool.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 19, 2013)

lupinealchemist said:


> Welp, my stepfather strongly believes laptops are the way to go. Since he is also my semi-employer, I have little choice in the matter.
> While I admire the mobility, I just hope Skyrim and ESO work fairly well on it and find some way to keep it cool.



*winces* Well, if you got little say as to it being anything but a laptop, then I hope you can at least pick the type.  The A10-based one that Runefox pointed out would be one of your best bets for performance, price and running cool.  Any other laptop at that price that had a separate GPU isn't going to have anything as powerful as the A10's native Radeon, and it'd run hotter no matter what it was.


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## Runefox (Nov 19, 2013)

Yeah, one thing I'd definitely recommend is a cooling pad for it if you're going to be gaming. They're not especially useful outside of that, but the extra airflow can really help keep the temperature down, even if it's only a few degrees. I've heard good things about the CoolerMaster Notepal series, so that would be my recommendation. Most of them are pretty well the same thing, but this one has a single 200mm fan, which should be a lot quieter while pushing a lot of air around, along with a fan speed controller to adjust. Plus, CoolerMaster makes their own fans, while Targus and other manufacturers don't. Should be a little more reliable overall.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 19, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Yeah, one thing I'd definitely recommend is a cooling pad for it if you're going to be gaming. They're not especially useful outside of that, but the extra airflow can really help keep the temperature down, even if it's only a few degrees. I've heard good things about the CoolerMaster Notepal series, so that would be my recommendation. Most of them are pretty well the same thing, but this one has a single 200mm fan, which should be a lot quieter while pushing a lot of air around, along with a fan speed controller to adjust. Plus, CoolerMaster makes their own fans, while Targus and other manufacturers don't. Should be a little more reliable overall.



Fully agreed - they do help a lot with additional airflow.  One thing to try and find out first though is how the cooling works on that laptop (IE, where it draws in air, and how/where it pushes it out).  Some coolers work better than others depending on that flow path.  Sometimes, if the laptop draws in from the back and vents out the other side of the back, a laptop cooler won't do you any good at all.  

Models like the one suggested usually draw in from the bottom near the back of the laptop and vent the air out one or more slots in the back.  Coolers work good with those.


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