# Some thoughts on my next comp



## Venu.Shade (May 10, 2013)

so right now im running on an old Toshiba Satellite i bought on sale roughly 2 years ago...
and lets just say it can barely do what i want or need it to at this point. it was originally for just schoolwork and some simple games but since my desktop broke (which had been 5 years old after i bought this) it became what i use for everything.

I know the bare basics of computer tech so im kinda looking for some assistance on what i should buy based on the things i need.

It needs to be able to hook up to my laptop which will be used as the main monitor (a good bright 16 inches) along with a 12 inch square monitor from my old desktop.
It needs to be able to run games like Guild Wars 2, Skyrim, ect. smoothly and preferably with the graphics up.
I'd like to be able to run Livestream on it without Procaster taking up 80% of the CPU usage or whatever it does on my laptop.
it needs to have at least 4 USB ports.

as for RAM and Hard Drive... i know ill need roughly 6-8 GB of RAM for all the things ill want to do and most desktops come with at least 1 TB of Hard Drive space at this point. and Ill have to get used to using Windows 8 as well.

if i can stay under $1000 for the price of it too it would be wonderful.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+...218817157054&skuId=6957682#tab=specifications

i dont know if that link will work, but its one of the computers i was looking at. if this meets all of my criteria then great, if not... some help looking for something better would be appreciated


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## ToeClaws (May 10, 2013)

You may not have to put up with Windows 8 - the consumer dislike for it at this point has been strong enough that a lot of manufacturers are offering Windows 7 Pro instead now.  It also looks like Microsoft is finally willing to admit they messed up and fix the interface for the next Windows release.

You can definitely build a tower for under $1000 that would be more than easily capable of running everything you need.  In fact, if you go the parts-route, you can even get whatever OS you want for it.  The one problem I see there is that you can't hook it up to your laptop's monitor.  Laptops allow for video output, but rarely do they allow for input.

The system you linked to is certainly powerful enough for all your needs, though there is just one thing I would suggest upgrading - the video card.  When it comes to games, most of the processing rests on the video card, and the 7600 series is only a midrange offering.  I run GW2 quite nicely on an older Core2 Duo Quad 9550 with a Radeon 7870, and that's considerably less CPU power than the system you linked to.

If you have someone that can help build it for you, you might be able to build it out for less by getting the parts yourself.


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## Runefox (May 10, 2013)

Windows 8 isn't that bad, really. It's Windows 7 with a full-screen start menu, basically. If you can wrap your head around that and you're used to the search function in Windows 7's start menu, you'll be right at home. Multiple monitors are handled WAY better, with the option to have separate taskbars per screen, you can quickly access admin functions like Device Manager, Event Viewer, Admin Command Prompt, Control Panel, etc by right-clicking at the bottom left of the screen, the Aero Glass effect is not present and thus not as distracting (you could turn it off, sure, but you lost hardware accelerated window management in doing so). Windows Explorer's Ribbon interface now has a quick toggle for hidden files, so I don't have to contantly be looking at desktop.ini files just so I don't have to go in and toggle it on and off to change the view. Speaking of views, there's a new Contents view which is basically the Details view for hi-DPI displays. Also awesome is a Time Machine-esque backup system called File History, which lets you use any disk for said backups, and furthermore saves it as a folder structure rather than a massive blob file. It also boots way faster, has a huge array of recovery tools, boots EFI by default on compatible systems, and other little things, like the redesigned task manager that's actually rather useful now.

Aaaanyway, hooking up to your laptop to use your laptop as a monitor? That's not really going to happen unfortunately, unless you want to use a video capture device to take the HDMI output from the desktop and display it on the laptop. That sort of thing usually costs about $200, and is more for actual capture than for display. That said, this is the kind of thing you might want to use to offload the CPU load while using ProCaster / XSplit.

The graphics card on that Asus is VERY underpowered for the price, as is the CPU. Ideally, the computer should have a Core i5 or better with a Radeon 7800-series or GeForce 660. If you're looking at gaming in 1080p or below, those cards + that CPU would do the job nicely. The AMD FX CPU and the Radeon 7670? Not so much. Of the prebuilts on Best Buy's US website, http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+...rive/8420205.p?id=1218875430031&skuId=8420205 is probably the closest to what you're looking for in that price range.

Though like ToeClaws said, you could probably build one for about the same price with better specs. In fact, MaximumPC's latest issue had a build-off for units with a budget of $750 and came up with a rather impressive Intel build with an i5-3350P and a GeForce GTX 660, and even had a 32GB caching SSD. This kind of computer would run circles around the Asus you linked earlier. With $250 worth of wiggle room, you can squeeze a lot more out of the system, particularly with a higher-end processor or a higher end 660, and more RAM (they stuck it with 4GB, but 8GB of RAM can be had for $30 more).


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## Venu.Shade (May 10, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. There's just an itty bitty problem..

i don't trust myself building my own computer XD

im a complete clutch and I wouldn't know how to put it together and I'd likely end up breaking everything.

i also stopped by my local bestbuy and asked the guy there and told him my needs and that I wanted to avoid Alienware if I could and he pointed me at a couple that were pretty decent. I'm gonna keep looking though


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## Runefox (May 10, 2013)

Alienware is basically Dell. The big thing is, if you're not buying their top end gear (which commands a pretty penny for what you get), you're not exactly getting quality parts. What you're mostly paying for with Alienware is the design / brand, similar to how Skullcandy are shitty headphones that are expensive because someone decided to build a brand around shitty headphones. Once upon a time, they were pretty OK, but acquisition by Dell sunk their quality control pretty badly since they began offering lower-cost options.

Also, virtually any computer manufacturer with "power" in the title (iBuyPower, CyberPowerPC) are more or less quality control nightmares.

As for building your own, you'd be surprised at how easy it actually is, but I understand the hesitation. If you don't know anyone who can do it, then maybe you can find a computer shop that would do an assembly for you. There's actually an online computer shop (with brick and mortar in BC) here in Canada called NCIX that will do made to order builds for parts/shipping + $50.


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## Venu.Shade (May 10, 2013)

Thanks :3 though I am going to avoid building my own at all costs.. I I get it from BestBuy I can buy a warrantee like I had for my laptop so if anything breaks they can fix it for me.

im really not confident in determining what is wrong with my computer if something goes wrong past the battery dying or the hard drive not functioning.


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## Runefox (May 11, 2013)

In that case, I'd recommend the Asus that I linked to. It's a little under the $1k budget and should do what you're looking to do. It's the best candidate of the available computers on Best Buy US's website.


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## Venu.Shade (May 11, 2013)

That Asus is a Little overboard with the RAM imo XD i dont need nearly that much. just 8-12 is fine for me.

and I actually found a computer now and had a techie friend of mine check over the specs for me. its an HP with 1.5 TB of HD space, 10 GB of RAM (which can be upgraded later up to 32) and a really good graphics and video card.

and the whole thing, including a mouse and keyboard isnt even 700 bucks which gives me enough money to get 2 21.5 inch LED gaming monitors i saw for 105 each.

thanks for all the help and pointers guys, but i think i found my computer~


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## ToeClaws (May 12, 2013)

Venu.Shade said:


> That Asus is a Little overboard with the RAM imo XD i dont need nearly that much. just 8-12 is fine for me.
> ....



Very true for now, but one never knows in 3 to 5 years what you might need.  Besides, DDR3 RAM is dirt cheap right now, so if you can get extra for a petty amount more, go for it.  Work was originally going to get 16g for my new workstation, but it was so little to go up to 32g, they just said "Meh, what the heck" and did it.  Thing is that down the road, RAM eventually falls into obsolescence as it's replaced by the next version.  Today if you want to get an older PC that uses DDR2 up to 16g of RAM, it costs a retarded amount of cash compared to DDR3.  Eventually, that will be true of DDR3 and when DDR4 or DDR5 or whatever comes out to replace it.  It's a pattern that's repeated for the 23+ years I've been building PCs.

And to RuneFox about Windows 8 - yes, for the most part you're correct; Windows 8 is mostly a big improvement not only on Windows 7, but on Windows NT in general for the last 15 years.  I was pleasantly shocked to see re-writes of so many internal apps.  The problem is that all those fantastic improvements are overshadowed by the terrible interface.  Yes, you _can_ get used to it, but that doesn't mean it's worth getting - especially with Microsoft finally acknowledging the massive backlash and announcing that the next Windows will return to a more usable GUI.  Personally, I very much look forward to seeing all of Windows 8's strengths behind a less clunky interface.


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## Colere88 (May 12, 2013)

Venu.Shade said:


> That Asus is a Little overboard with the RAM imo XD i dont need nearly that much. just 8-12 is fine for me.
> 
> and I actually found a computer now and had a techie friend of mine check over the specs for me. its an HP with 1.5 TB of HD space, 10 GB of RAM (which can be upgraded later up to 32) and a really good graphics and video card.
> 
> ...



Just cuz I like talking about this stuff, _even if_ you made up your mind already...

I can't help but _cringe_ when people preface a computer part with "really good." but nevermind, that's just me. If you went with that one in the original link you'd probably be fine, but building your own pc can be cheaper, more educational, and actually MORE reliable and LESS of a hassle in the long term than buying one from a box store. places like bestbuy tend to emphasize storage space and ram (which is cheap nowadays), and _sometimes_ processor speed, because people think that bigger numbers mean better performance. I see on that link 2gb of memory for the GC, but hd 7670 doesn't even show up on newegg, which means that it's probably a cheaper card meant specifically for that make of tower, sort of a "yesterday's soup" deal. it's probably 128-bit, which is obsolete (but not necessarily _bad_), and doesn't say what the processor clock is. it doesn't matter if it's 2gb, if too much data is streaming through the gpu it will overheat and crash, or worse, die. 

as for RAM, 8-12'll do ya just fine I think. plus, building your own comp means you don't have to deal with all the bullshit they pre-install onto it, which is sometimes impossible to get rid of unless you're a wizard. if your favorite game is skyrim, decide what res and settings you want out of it. I'm not super familiar with skyrim's specific demands as far as graphics goes, but max settings and res with consistent 50-60+ fps is probably going to cost you a pretty penny. decide what your needs are and read the reviews on newegg since they are generally pretty reliable (except for the DOA reviews. ignore those--they happen). 

if budget is a concern, AMD recently came out with the vishera cpu, which has gotten great reviews and uses less power than its predecessors. Runefox is right that intel processors are generally faster and better for gaming, but they're considerably more expensive. for example, as a comparison:

AMD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113286
Intel http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504

AMD is clearly cheaper but they tend to run much hotter and consume much more power than intel, so with AMD i'd recommend a cheap water cooling system and a tower with at least 2-3 fans (coolermaster is p/cheap). and don't use the stock fan with amd--it sucks. intel, however, is better overall for running multiple high-demand applications. I'm an AMD fan myself, but i don't judge people for liking one or the other. the cpu industry is very competitive and new things come out all the time.

there are give or take 8 or 9 components you would need if you decide to go this route, so think about each one very carefully according to your budget and demands. make sure they are all about even in price/performance if you decide to build so you don't get bottlenecks and waste your money. good luck dude!

(also yeah, just get a new monitor--they're cheap)


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## Venu.Shade (May 12, 2013)

thanks :3 and the reason i typed "really good" was because i had been too lazy to copy-paste the actual names of the video/graphics card and processor.

but here are the specs listed :

[h=4]AMD 6-Core FX-6200 Processor with AMD Radeon HD 7570 dedicated graphics[/h][h=4]10GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM[/h][h=4]6MB L2 + up to 8MB L3 cache[/h][h=4]1.5TB Serial ATA hard drive (7200 rpm)[/h][h=4]AMD Radeon HD 7570 graphics[/h][h=4]2 USB 3.0 and 6 USB 2.0 ports[/h]
so personally for 690 USD this is a pretty damn good computer XD

and once im all settled down with it ill likely save up and get more RAM just for kicks~


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## Colere88 (May 13, 2013)

whatever you go with, I hope it makes you happy and gets the job done. Still, building your own can be very fun/educational for beginners, even experts. happy tails!


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## AshleyAshes (May 13, 2013)

That system actually seems sorta weak for $700.


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## Runefox (May 13, 2013)

The Radeon 7570 will definitely struggle with Skyrim; I can't speak for Guild Wars 2, since I don't play it. The AMD CPU is decent enough, in around the level of a Core i5-2400 (any 3rd gen i5 would beat it soundly). I still recommend the Asus I linked; For the extra $250, it's a lot more computer, but it's your choice either way.


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## probabilitywolf (May 13, 2013)

You sound like you need a custom computer if you really want to stay below budget - either that, or you should get one (brand new, I mean) on eBay.
And one thing I must say: if you want a cheap computer, stay away from Intel processors.


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## ToeClaws (May 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> The Radeon 7570 will definitely struggle with Skyrim; I can't speak for Guild Wars 2, since I don't play it. The AMD CPU is decent enough, in around the level of a Core i5-2400 (any 3rd gen i5 would beat it soundly). I still recommend the Asus I linked; For the extra $250, it's a lot more computer, but it's your choice either way.



Fully agreed; if there is ONE component you don't want to do on the cheap, it's the video card.


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## Venu.Shade (May 13, 2013)

Would I be able to upgrade the video card later down the road? My budget got a bit tighter since my laptop completely gave out this morning. My iPod is now my only source of Internet connection.


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## ToeClaws (May 13, 2013)

Venu.Shade said:


> Would I be able to upgrade the video card later down the road? My budget got a bit tighter since my laptop completely gave out this morning. My iPod is now my only source of Internet connection.



Depends - the card it said it has was "integrated" so built into the motherboard.  You can add a better card at a later time, but you have to make sure the motherboard has a PCI-E 16x slot, plus you'll also need to make sure that the power supply that comes with the system can handle a beefier card (IE, has 2 6-pin power connectors for the card that look like this: http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/image/...924706F3AC/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1 ).


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## Runefox (May 13, 2013)

Most power supplies in pre-made computers are the bare minimum for the computer to function; I've seen 300W power supplies stuffed into otherwise decent computers. For a better video card, you'd more than likely need to upgrade the power supply to handle the extra load as well.


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## ToeClaws (May 13, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Most power supplies in pre-made computers are the bare minimum for the computer to function; I've seen 300W power supplies stuffed into otherwise decent computers. For a better video card, you'd more than likely need to upgrade the power supply to handle the extra load as well.



*nodsnods* Yeah, seen that as well.  On the upside, if the power supply is the only concern, they're at least not that expensive.


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## AshleyAshes (May 13, 2013)

ToeClaws said:


> Depends - the card it said it has was "integrated" so built into the motherboard.



No, it's not integrated.  The FX-6200 is a Bulldozer CPU, Bulldozer doesn't have an integrated GPU like Llano or Trinity.  I think maybe they copy and pasted the title of a GPU/CPU *bundle*?  I'm also certain that Radeon HD 7570 is the name of a discrete graphics card, there wouldn't be an integrated version with the same GPU number.  Infact if I recall correctly, their integrated GPUs end with a 'D' after the four digits.


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## ToeClaws (May 13, 2013)

AshleyAshes said:


> No, it's not integrated.  The FX-6200 is a Bulldozer CPU, Bulldozer doesn't have an integrated GPU like Llano or Trinity.  I think maybe they copy and pasted the title of a GPU/CPU *bundle*?  I'm also certain that Radeon HD 7570 is the name of a discrete graphics card, there wouldn't be an integrated version with the same GPU number.  Infact if I recall correctly, their integrated GPUs end with a 'D' after the four digits.



I know it doesn't - as I stated, I was talking about the motherboard having an integrated GPU, not the CPU.  It's fairly common for manufacturers to stick a moderate GPU on the motherboard and even sometimes give it some dedicated RAM.


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## Venu.Shade (May 14, 2013)

well regardless of whether i can or cannot, I purchased the computer yesterday and i just need to get the second monitor up and running.

I played Skyrim and i can have the graphics set to High with no issues at all. I'm also playing Guild Wars 2 smoothly and with no issues or lag.

also, my laptop's motherboard decided to no longer function mere hours before the purchase of the new computer XD so im getting my important art files and such transferred to a flash drive today :3 all i need now are some sweet speakers and im good XD thanks for all the help guys!


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## ToeClaws (May 14, 2013)

Good to hear.   Did it have a PCI-E slot in it?  And yay for GW2!  Who knows, might run across ya in game if you're on Devonna's Rest. ^^;


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## Venu.Shade (May 14, 2013)

ToeClaws said:


> Good to hear.   Did it have a PCI-E slot in it?  And yay for GW2!  Who knows, might run across ya in game if you're on Devonna's Rest. ^^;



a PCI-E slot? i have no idea what that means... talking computer parts to me is like talking about cars. i dont understand anything except mere basics XD hence why i mande this thread in the first place~

and as for GW2, sadly no. I'm on Tarnished Coast. only server ive ever been on. all my friends are on it except a handful XD


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## Arshes Nei (May 14, 2013)

I YouTube and watched videos to get familiar with building a pc. Wasn't that hard. While I have been around pcs ans seen them taken apart bwfore, a lot of current components are a lot easier to deal with vs the mess I saw in the 80's and 90's


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## Venu.Shade (May 14, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I YouTube and watched videos to get familiar with building a pc. Wasn't that hard. While I have been around pcs ans seen them taken apart bwfore, a lot of current components are a lot easier to deal with vs the mess I saw in the 80's and 90's



i dont doubt that. but ive just never been overly interested in learning about it XD kinda like how i referenced "talking computer is like talking car to me" i get little drips and drabs, enough to "change the oil and filter" and know when something isnt quite right... but thats the limit of my knowledge :3


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## AshleyAshes (May 14, 2013)

ToeClaws said:


> I know it doesn't - as I stated, I was talking about the motherboard having an integrated GPU, not the CPU.  It's fairly common for manufacturers to stick a moderate GPU on the motherboard and even sometimes give it some dedicated RAM.



No, they stopped that practice some time ago.  They're all built into the CPUs now.  Since Sandy Bridge the onboard GPUs are built into the CPU and same with AMD's midrange options in the Trinity family.  GPU in the motherboard isn't a current thing for most all consumer boards.


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## Colere88 (May 15, 2013)

Venu.Shade said:


> a PCI-E slot? i have no idea what that means...



"peripheral component interconnect express." They're long narrow slots on the motherboard that are mainly used for graphics cards, sometimes 2, or even 3 at a time if you're a wizard. there's also smaller PCI slots that are used for connecting to WiFi without a USB device or whatever.


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## ToeClaws (May 16, 2013)

Venu.Shade said:


> a PCI-E slot? i have no idea what that means... talking computer parts to me is like talking about cars. i dont understand anything except mere basics XD hence why i mande this thread in the first place~
> 
> and as for GW2, sadly no. I'm on Tarnished Coast. only server ive ever been on. all my friends are on it except a handful XD



This image shows you the difference in the slots:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/operab/2010-07-08_021703_PCI_PCIe_Slots.jpg

You should take a peak inside and see if it's got a PCI-E 16 slot.  If it does, that means you can add a bigger, better video card at a later time if you want. 

And doh, too bad about GW2.  Haven't had good luck there - nearly everyone I've run across in the fandom uses different servers.


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## Arshes Nei (May 17, 2013)

[yt]lPIXAtNGGCw[/yt]


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## ToeClaws (May 21, 2013)

AshleyAshes said:


> No, they stopped that practice some time ago.  They're all built into the CPUs now.  Since Sandy Bridge the onboard GPUs are built into the CPU and same with AMD's midrange options in the Trinity family.  GPU in the motherboard isn't a current thing for most all consumer boards.



They didn't completely stop the practice Ashley - while Intel has included the HD series GPUs as part of the CPU since Sandy Bridge, AMD chose to split processor design into CPUs and APUs.  APUs like Trinty have the built in GPUs, but the FX series don't have such a thing.  Since the system in question had an AMD core, I figured I'd ask.


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## ArthisLanguine (May 21, 2013)

If you want to buy it cheap you want to custom-make it. They run great when they're custom made as well, and work how you want them to.


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## Venu.Shade (May 21, 2013)

already bought my computer and got everything running. it works up to and above my expectations given everyone's reviews of the components so im good :3


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