# short story problems



## Gnarl (Dec 28, 2013)

So here Is my issue, I wanted to write a short story to get published by a couple of short story publishers. Every time I try to write a short story it just doesn't work. With the character building and the plot the prologue the build-up and climax and the epilogue the shortest I have been able to write was about 45,400 words. how do you guys get an entire story into 3 to 6 thousand words?


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## Dover (Dec 28, 2013)

Oh man that's tough... Eliminate anything that can be skipped. Have all the vital action. If its all good I guess you need to cut back on the bigger picture and trim away at the amount of characters. Chisel it down to its core. Best advice I can offer.


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## Conker (Dec 28, 2013)

In my case, I guess it's finding a story that I know I can fit in a few pages. Some ideas are simply too big to be short stories, and maybe that's where you're finding issues?


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## Tica (Dec 28, 2013)

don't get too attached to your characters :/


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## Gnarl (Dec 28, 2013)

I have tried doing that several times and maybe it is just the way I tell the story, but when I cut it down all I was left with was a piece of crap I had to shred before anyone could read it! Then I tried to limit the number of characters or only go with a certain event of short time frame but they always seemed incomplete. 
I am not one for the formal write out the plot and plan the characters thing but I even tried that once, it was a total disaster! 
I can explain: OK so I tried to write this one short about a guy from the Trellon planet. It has 1.3 times earth gravity and the guy was basically a 5'6" tall rabbit. 
He came to earth because he had heard about a game called basketball and he wanted to try it. The guy had a holographic camouflage generator that made him look like your average early twenties, white guy. He found that he could scam people by betting on his ability to dunk the ball. One day he is in an indoor court and the straps he used to keep himself from jumping to high breaks. he ends up jumping all the way into the rafters and knocking himself unconscious! 
When he hits the floor the holo-generator fails. The guys he had the bet with try to sell the alien to the government. A female sees him and how fluffy his long ears are all that and rescues him. the government shows up and the chase is on!  Now by the time I got that one written it ended at over 50 thousand words. 
Yea if anyone wants to write a version of it be my guest! It is not copy written you can have it!  I stripped it down in the sense of pulled out how he found out about earth, or basketball or even how he got here. pulled out how he got the camo unit limited it two guys he made the bet with and one girl. Only ever described the car the feds were in and fact that one kept throwing out cigarette butts.  What more can you do with something like that?


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## Tica (Dec 28, 2013)

you have too much plot. a short story is like a photograph, where a novel is like a movie,


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## Gnarl (Dec 28, 2013)

I know your all right! every story I try to write is like watching a movie in my head. Now I just have to figure out to make it a photo instead. I am probably over thinking it!


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## â™¥Mirandaâ™¥ (Dec 29, 2013)

Try writing in one or two scenes, rather than over the course of several acts

A good short story is very unlike a "shorter novel", where a novel is expanded the short story is densely layered

Imagine you are writing an essay. Get a clear idea into your head, a message to be portrayed (X moral lesson or exploring Y's character or even just to treatise on a certain tonality!) and then make sure every paragraph is like a supporting statement to that end

A romance novel made into a short story might span a single scene in his car, them talking as she rests her head nervous on his shoulder, the rain falling outside and the orange glow of a streetlamp painting its texture on their faces. We have a short dialogue between them where they go over the problems in their relationship and come to a conclusion. There is no prologue or epilogue, just the here and now

You might want to look into the minimalist paradigm if you'd like a quick fix for length issues, it's a school of thought basically based around telling more with less. The trick is that some things are tacit; things "move with the majesty of an iceberg" ( -Hemingway), where the power is not in what is shown but in what is invisible.




Gnarl said:


> I am probably over thinking it!



I wouldn't say so. Writing is a concentrated effort already on its own, but you're also trying to branch out and do something that you're not comfortable with which is hard in any endeavor. If you're too comfortable writing in longform you're going to have to go through a pretty major paradigm shift in order to get shorter works out.

I recommend you find some anthologies of short stories and try to study them, be as objective as possible in looking over the form and the ideas that are being presented to you. If you can find something you like in them ("I like the way this paragraph blends violent and sexual imagery to make a central point") it might be the spark that helps you write in this format


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## Conker (Dec 29, 2013)

Gnarl said:


> Basketball story synopsis


Amusing idea, though just looking at it I'd have to say that's more a novel than a short story. The gravity dissonance seems like it would take some major explaining, and then everything that follows seems to be more chapter affair than paragraph affair.

Ya think too big Gnarl!


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## â™¥Mirandaâ™¥ (Dec 29, 2013)

too big

toooooo big

small. little bird


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## Tica (Dec 29, 2013)

I second the recommendation to grab a short story anthology and read a ton of them. You can't hope to write if you don't read often; you can't imitate a style you're unfamiliar with.


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## Teal (Dec 29, 2013)

If you keep writing things with tons of words why not try to write a novel? 


Also I've noticed most short stories have very few characters, like at the most three. Sometimes only the protagonist and nature or something similar acting as the antagonist.
Maybe you have too many characters?


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## â™¥Mirandaâ™¥ (Dec 29, 2013)

Teal said:


> If you keep writing things with tons of words why not try to write a novel?



He wants to write short stories to submit to publishers

It's a lot easier to get your name out that way, given the amount of serials out there that publish short stories from newer authors (Vagabonds, etc)


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 29, 2013)

Tybby said:
			
		

> I recommend you find some anthologies of short stories and try to study them, be as objective as possible in looking over the form and the ideas that are being presented to you.


Yeah.  Definitely do this.  Short stories are a completely different form than novels or novellas, in the same sense that poems are a different form, so you really just need to get an idea how they're done before you try tackling it.

 I was reading an essay by Barbara Kingsolver on helping to put together a 'best short story' compilation, and she basically said that since short stories are one of the least widely read forms of writing, what you really want to aim for isn't so much just telling a story that happens to be short, but telling a story that's impactful in few words, and that says something new and interesting to think about.  Sort of like longform poetry, in a sense.  I'd say I'm more or less on board with that thinking (although I do still appreciate just a story, sometimes), and I will say that generally if you try it, you'll end up taking just as long to write 5000 words as you normally take to write 50,000.


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## Teal (Dec 29, 2013)

Tybalt Maxwell said:


> He wants to write short stories to submit to publishers
> 
> It's a lot easier to get your name out that way, given the amount of serials out there that publish short stories from newer authors (Vagabonds, etc)


I know that, I'm saying like in addition to short stories.


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## Gnarl (Dec 29, 2013)

Teal said:


> If you keep writing things with tons of words why not try to write a novel?
> 
> 
> Also I've noticed most short stories have very few characters, like at the most three. Sometimes only the protagonist and nature or something similar acting as the antagonist.
> Maybe you have too many characters?



Actually I have written some 47 of them. so far published four books the shortest was 45,500 words and the longest published was 181,200 words. 
doing novels is no problem, I can't do short stories! I always want to go farther and explain and expound. Even when I tried to make a long story short, it came out 53,000 words long. I am cursed! Publishers don't want full length stuff, they seem to want things that you can read in a single sitting!


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## Teal (Dec 29, 2013)

Gnarl said:


> Actually I have written some 47 of them. so far published four books the shortest was 45,500 words and the longest published was 181,200 words.


 Damn. That's a lot. D:


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## Gnarl (Dec 29, 2013)

I have been writing since I was 14 and in a few days I will be 55! I would say that first 12 to 15 are pure junk and will some day meet the fire place, but the rest have potential! I would tell you what they are but that is not what this is for. Tybalt is correct, I want to get some more of my works out there but until the name is known that is not likely to happen.. The more short stories I can get out there, and yea publishers consider it less of a gamble when it is only a short story, then the more likely they would pick up some of the novels. Otherwise it is just pray that the book hits the publishers desk when he is in a good mood and actually willing to read it!


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## Conker (Dec 29, 2013)

Gnarl said:


> Tybalt is correct, I want to get some more of my works out there but until the name is known that is not likely to happen.. The more short stories I can get out there, and yea publishers consider it less of a gamble when it is only a short story, then the more likely they would pick up some of the novels. Otherwise it is just pray that the book hits the publishers desk when he is in a good mood and actually willing to read it!


Well that makes me sad.

But if you have a four novels published already, wouldn't that be enough to help you along? One might be a happy accident, but four is...well, four!


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## Gnarl (Dec 29, 2013)

Got one about a conversation between two dragons. One on e each side of a dimensional portal (the guardians).


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## RedSavage (Dec 30, 2013)

Gnarl? You're published? That's badass. Cool to hear. 

In terms of short stories, it's always aout that tight focus on what the story is about that cinches the deal. I've always worked with a sort of 'jump in' technique. I can setup and think up backstory abd character all day. Bob works at a fast food place. He hates his job, but loves his wife. Bob enjoys the ocean and the sea, even though he lives in Tuscon. 

But I don't even need to mention half that or even some. Not releveant to whatever story I've thought up. Hell I don't even need to write down his name. I might mention something about a greese stained sleeve. A once used tackled box in the back of the truck. A tired, but calm expression. He drives a bit fast on the way home after work, so when he has the blowout a mile from the house, these are all little details that come into play as the truck rolls down the hill. 

Lots of long exposition can be said n a single sentence. Short stories, and minimalism to an extent, is like a precise puzzle. No extra parts. No frills. And you have just enough pieces to create the full picture, with not a single word extra.


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## Gnarl (Jan 5, 2014)

Alright lets try this! it may be a bit raw just yet but I just have to put it there and see what you think! 

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12424274/       it is called The Chain.


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## Conker (Jan 5, 2014)

Gnarl said:


> Alright lets try this! it may be a bit raw just yet but I just have to put it there and see what you think!


Well, you weren't lying when you aimed for short. To put that into perspective, the song "Rap God" by Eminem has more words. 

I'm a bit confused at points, and expansion will only help. I'd like to know what the two rooms look like, or at least one of them. They clearly aren't prisons as we come to see, but since you talk of chains right away, I was thinking a prison. 

I guess I really just want more description in all sense of the place. But, you've got plenty of room to add that as needed.

Also, why did you capitalize Dragon?


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## Tica (Jan 5, 2014)

Too many characters, too much backstory, too little actual action.

the grammar is stilted and the mechanics broken (you know you're supposed to indent every paragraph, right?)

I thought you said you were published :I


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## Gnarl (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, I said it was raw! and yes the aim was to make it short. The goal is to get it to work at less than say 2500 words! I think it is around 1290 right now but I am not sure it tells a complete story. Granted the descriptions can add to the setting and maybe be a little more towards the plot, but I feel like it should be ... longer! 
That is my problem, I want the story to have more character building, more plot, more of a climax and some sort of epilogue. 
I kept want to add things like how could they live for 500 years chained up in a cave. little things like what did they eat and where did they go the bathroom, how bad did it smell, what did they do with the bodies of the dead, why was the sword still there. To add a mere 1210 more words that will drive me nuts. I want to add the story of who they are and a background, why were they able to get into the ancient chamber? What were they doing there in the first place? 
Who is the Magi and what the heck was he talking about. I want it be more obvious that this dragon was the reason the human and the fairy (Tuatha) realms separated forever. I guess it will require self control.


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## Conker (Jan 5, 2014)

Gnarl said:


> Well, I said it was raw! and yes the aim was to make it short. The goal is to get it to work at less than say 2500 words! I think it is around 1290 right now but I am not sure it tells a complete story. Granted the descriptions can add to the setting and maybe be a little more towards the plot, but I feel like it should be ... longer!
> That is my problem, I want the story to have more character building, more plot, more of a climax and some sort of epilogue.
> I kept want to add things like how could they live for 500 years chained up in a cave. little things like what did they eat and where did they go the bathroom, how bad did it smell, what did they do with the bodies of the dead, why was the sword still there. To add a mere 1210 more words that will drive me nuts. I want to add the story of who they are and a background, why were they able to get into the ancient chamber? What were they doing there in the first place?
> Who is the Magi and what the heck was he talking about. I want it be more obvious that this dragon was the reason the human and the fairy (Tuatha) realms separated forever. I guess it will require self control.


Well best of luck to you, because all of the details you wanted to add were things I wondered about as I read it. You could probably handwave some of the eating/shitting thing if you wanted them to be more magic oriented, dragons being dragons and all, but yeah. There's a lot you can work with in that little piece.


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## Tica (Jan 5, 2014)

Here's a quick, 500-word piece of flash fiction for you. I wrote it in twenty minutes just as an example. You don't need as much in a short story as you want to put in it. I mean, I realize that flash fiction is it's own beast compared to short stories, but still. A little mystery, a little poetry... does one good.

(I'm not trying to write the same story you wrote; I'm just using the motifs of dragons, caverns, and chains as a kind of prompt.)

--

_The dragon opened his eyes, pulling apart lids gummed with dust and grime. A new day had dawned, and the light from the rising sun cast a brilliant flashing sparkle onto the gem-encrusted rocks near the entrace to his cavern. He closed his eyes again quickly, bright red dots swirling in his shuttered vision. This was the only light that ever reached him where he lay, straining against the massive chains that lashed him to the rocks. His eyes could not handle its brillance even from this distance.

     He counted the days as they passed. He couldn't help it: several hours of sparkling light marked each new sunrise. He counted the days, and he remembered each one. Five hundred years of them. Five hundred years of straining against his bonds, of opening his gummy eyes and shrinking back from the far-off sparkle that reminded him of all he'd lost in one fell swoop.


He'd almost forgotten what it was he'd done. Only in his dreams did he hear the people's screams once more. Feel the blaze of fires he had lit; smell the burning buildings, roasting flesh. Only in his dreams did he see the otherworldly portal open, claim its prize, close with a powerful groaning of magic. For one crime, one thoughtless crime, he'd been sentenced to this bleak eternity.


He pulled against his chains with all four legs, his massive tree-trunk tail swishing back and forth but finding no purchase anywhere but in the sand he lay in. His scales had begun to grow over his manacles, which dug into his flesh and left it red, raw, oozing pus over his great claws.  


I'M SORRY! He would call into the darkness, from time to time. FORGIVE ME! He would sob. No answer. And so he slept, and dreamt, and woke, and remembered, for five hundred years. Straining against his bonds.

     A sharp crack sounded from behind him. A small, hard object ricocheted into his shoulder. He flinched in pain. A dozen more little stones or metal pieces flew from the same origin point and peppered his scales with stinging blows. He fell forward into the sand, which exploded all around him and filled his nostrils with grit.


He rose, and lurched forward in the cave. His manacles clinked against his legs.


He lurched forward again, shuffling in the sand. He looked behind him. Five hundred years of straining had finally pulled the anchors of his bonds straight from the rock face itself, and bolts and screws and rusty chain links lay scattered all about him.

     He heard the people's screams, once more, echo in the chambers of his mind. He blinked. He lurched and lumbered toward the distant sparkling of sunrise. Once he had escaped the cave, he stretched and flapped his stiffened wings until he was aloft. He steered himself clumsily toward the city on the hill.


He had almost forgotten what it was he'd done. But what little he remembered, he knew that he was destined to repeat.
_
--

Literally the entire plot is the dragon's bonds breaking. The climax is when he stumbles forward and realizes he is finally free. There's a slight twist at the end, because even though in the middle it seems that the dragon is contrite and sorry for what he's done, at the end he realizes that he can't help but do it again.

Spend more time on descriptions of the here-and-now, concrete details like sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and textures; spend less time on world-building. Reduce your plot to something that can be said in a single, simple sentence.

Am I making sense?


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## Willow (Jan 6, 2014)

I think if you're writing short stories, details like how the dragons could have lived for that long of a time like that can be left up to the reader's imagination. You could of course drop hints as to how but in the grand scheme of things, potential backstory can probably be left out.


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## Hooky (Jan 20, 2014)

Some of the best short stories take place over a few hours. Try not to create a novel-sized plot. It will take a lot of practice and re-writes, but you'll get it eventually.


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