# FA Code Update: Project Ferrox



## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Here's an update on things to come:

*INTERFACE:*

Revised uploading interface focused on ease-of-use, efficiency and speed. Say goodbye to _"ARGH, why is this not aligned with the thingy and the..."_ and say hello to _"Gosh, this upload page sure is swell!"_
Editable comments. Comments will be editable for up to 5 minutes after posting them. Discovered a typo in your latest discussion on the glory of banana nut muffins? Tell it to go blow itself and erase it's little life away!
Flood detection. Kills double posts dead.
Search, 2.0. Way better than 1.0, 1.1 and 9.4. Enjoy more efficient searching with new search tools that make more sense, provide more results and tweak your nipples with bright, sunshiney smiles.
The Oft Delayed UI Revisions. Yes, we're going through another UI revision! Now, before you start to call to the Lord of the Underworld to smite down our names with storms of balefire and sheep, know this: I like pie.

But not only do I like pie, I also like ease of use and compatibility. And our new UI has been tested and custom designed to work fantastically on both high and low resolution systems. This means your Dell from 1934 will be able to display the page just as great as the latest Alienware SLI system.
*ACCOUNT REGISTRATION*

Account registration is getting a Captcha system to prevent robots and spammers from creating accounts on the fly.
As a further security, all new FA accounts will require e-mail code verification to ensure authenticity of the user's e-mail as legitimate.
*NEW FEATURES*

Groups. Because birds of a feather upload... together? Wait, let me try that again. Because artists roam in herds, and... this isn't working out.

GROUP COMMUNITIES!! You can post to them. And they're neat. Really neat. In fact, they're so neat, just thinking about them caused my pants to erupt into glorious flame.
Account Upgrades. Accounts will be upgradable to provide new features to users. The first of said upgrades will be userpage customization, allowing users to upload their own banners, select their own pages colors and add a bit of personality to their own FA.
We Stole It From VCL(tm). Our new version will implement community error screens. Users will be able to submit their own custom images which will cycle through on pages whenever a 404 Error Page is generated.

Sorry, Ch'marr, we had to!
More information will be posted as features are confirmed. Check back once a week, and we'll update the list with new features as we've confirmed their existance.

Note: This upgrade will be thoroughly tested before going live. We've learned from past mistakes, yessir. Really. Quit looking at me like that.


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## ArrowTibbs (Jun 17, 2006)

I can die happy now ^_^

Seriously, woot!


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## Alkora (Jun 17, 2006)

Here are a few shots of the new system.

Enjoy!


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## Suule (Jun 17, 2006)

Looking great!


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## KCat (Jun 17, 2006)

Just curious if you guys have heard of KittenAuth as a CAPTCHA replacement. Instead of using text recognition (which bots are getting better and better at cracking, and we're at the level where even people can't always read CAPTCHAs properly), it uses object recognition where you need to pick certain pictures out of a grid, based on given criteria (eg. pick 3 kittens out of a 3x3 grid of small fluffy animals, taken from a pool of thousands upon thousands of custom-made pictures). The criteria can even change and be randomized between uses (kittens once, foxes next, dogs after that, etc). This is supposedly much harder to crack since you need to identify the objects in the pictures, and match them up to what you need.. something computers aren't quite able to do (yet, anyway).

Given the theme of FurAffinity, I'd think it'd be a prime candidate for use here. I can't say whether or not its up to the task of being put to use quite yet though, so you may want to talk to the guy.


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## nobuyuki (Jun 17, 2006)

the default av is a great improvement.  

(p.s. I hope you cried a little, on the inside.  haw haw)


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

nobuyuki said:
			
		

> the default av is a great improvement.
> 
> (p.s. I hope you cried a little, on the inside.  haw haw)


We'll be replacing default avatars down the line and giving users more choices to use. That'll come in a seperate post when it's ready.


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## dave hyena (Jun 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> [*]Account Upgrades. Accounts will be upgradable to provide new features to users. The first of said upgrades will be userpage customization, allowing users to upload their own banners, select their own pages colors and add a bit of personality to their own FA.



We will be able to select default view though right?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> We will be able to select default view though right?


Well, the way it more than like work is this:

All users can select their default UI color and pick the scheme they want. There will be only ONE interface for the entire site, but it will be available in multiple colors.

Users who have upgraded accounts will be able to select color schemes for their pages, as well as upload custom banners (and a few other to be announced goodies). If you go to a user's page who has a custom color scheme, you'll see their scheme and their any page enhancements for their upgraded accounts.

It will allow upgraded users to stand out, but there will be no lack of usability for the other users.


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## Suule (Jun 17, 2006)

What do you mean by "Upgraded accounts?"


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> What do you mean by "Upgraded accounts?"


Users will be able to pay (yes, pay) a small amount for Livejournal-like upgrades, boosting their free accounts with extra benefits and features. We are interested in keeping the site free, ensuring all users receive the same standard of service (MINUS LAG).

Our costs are rising and will soon be sinking deeper into our pockets. Down the road, we'll need to upgrade FA's server equipment, storage and (in the event of failure) replace defective gear. We need to ensure the site stays up and alive, and does not suffer extended downtime like other Furry sites have experienced.

Unless we get a massive spike in donations, at which point we'll say screw it and make it free to everyone.

In the meantime, however, we want to offer something cheap, accessable and fair that will ad perks and  take away nothing. Ensuring the longevity and success of the site is one of our clear goals.


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## Suule (Jun 17, 2006)

Somehow I knew you'd say that.


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## Tellos (Jun 17, 2006)

I just wonder. Will the upgraded interface option be available at a fee? or is it free? "tam tam tam" AND.. will custom interfaces be possible to disable ? not everyone makes readable (useable) interfaces. so you can see all interfaces as default?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Tellos said:
			
		

> I just wonder. Will the upgraded interface option be available at a fee? or is it free? "tam tam tam" AND.. will custom interfaces be possible to disable ? not everyone makes readable (useable) interfaces. so you can see all interfaces as default?


It will be completely free. The upgraded, entirely re-designed UI will replace both existing UI's we have currently. It's being coded and designed to make the site easier to use as well as faster.

There will be one UI for the site, and only one. This ensures compatibility and makes coding and changes easier.


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## Tellos (Jun 17, 2006)

yes, but when someone makes a custom thingy for their site. will itbe possible to disable viewing em? if you have no wish to view other peoples customised pages I mean.


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## RavenWorks (Jun 17, 2006)

The new site doesn't look half bad 

Is the " i" bug finally gone? Can we finally see hover thumbnails of pics whose titles use Satan's Eyebrow, a.k.a. apostrophes?


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## Eidolon (Jun 17, 2006)

I'm glad you guys are doing something to try and prevent bots and whatnot from signing up. The name I used for the forums and everywhere else for that matter is taken on FA...but what makes it frustrating is it looks like its no one is even using it.


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## gaarachan12 (Jun 17, 2006)

like the no avatar bit. way better than the pain pot.


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## Alkora (Jun 17, 2006)

RavenWorks said:
			
		

> The new site doesn't look half bad
> 
> Is the " i" bug finally gone? Can we finally see hover thumbnails of pics whose titles use Satan's Eyebrow, a.k.a. apostrophes?



Yes, that is gone...I don't think you'll really be seeing any of the current bugs we currently have.


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## tundra_arctic_wolf (Jun 17, 2006)

Totally sweet pictures, Alkora.

I definately love the upgrades, Dragoneer.

I can't wait for the upgrades to this website.  I wish both of you the best of luck with the upgrades, Dragoneer and Alkora.


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## Almafeta (Jun 17, 2006)

A few questions.

One:  Have you tested the new code on IE7?

Two:  Will there be any sort of horizontal bar stealing screen real estate from the content?

Three:  Will paid users be able to override the display preferences of other users?  On sites like LiveJournal and MySpace, some people use the 'customizable interfaces' option to make their user pages into visual crimes against nature, and I don't want that to happen to FurAffinity.


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## Pico (Jun 17, 2006)

will we have to re-register for this ?


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## timoran (Jun 17, 2006)

It's okay to steal things from Ch'marr, as long as you don't steal the whole deleting-art-just-because-you-don't-personally-like-it-thing. :3


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

timoran said:
			
		

> It's okay to steal things from Ch'marr, as long as you don't steal the whole deleting-art-just-because-you-don't-personally-like-it-thing. :3


I only ban people if I don't like their art, not delete. HAHA! I'm just kidding. Or am I?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Pico said:
			
		

> will we have to re-register for this ?


Nope. You can continue on as is. It'll only affect newly made accounts.


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## Pico (Jun 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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phat, I like being user #8 or whatever heh :*)

also, on the first preview image, it says "1 Replies" and that ain't good grammar~


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## Dragoon_of_Light (Jun 17, 2006)

Not bad. I like the new upgrades. I can't wait until it becomes a reality.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Pico said:
			
		

> also, on the first preview image, it says "1 Replies" and that ain't good grammar~


That "ain't good"? =P Keep in mind the new versions of the site is still a work in progress. Lots of things will change in time.


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## Pico (Jun 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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yeaaaaaaah sarcasm '___` also will there be a way to disable emoticons? and where are those emoticons from (do you have permission to use them, etc)?


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## Alkora (Jun 17, 2006)

Pico said:
			
		

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You will be able to disable them.

The emotes were optained from phpbb.com.
I don't think there's any restrictions in terms of use for them...
http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/catdb.php?cat=22 -> aiwebs_normal (about 1/4th down the page...)

I'm using them to see how well the smilie system works...and to see a general size that would be acceptable for the theme...These work. I have my own set that I made a while back that I can adapt to suit FA if needbe.


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## Cyberhorn (Jun 17, 2006)

very cool upgrades dragoneer, i like the editable parts of coments bit im such a terrible typist i make flubs all the time 

with the 404 page thing will people be able to make their own 404 for the system to pop up ?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2006)

Cyberhorn said:
			
		

> very cool upgrades dragoneer, i like the editable parts of coments bit im such a terrible typist i make flubs all the time
> 
> with the 404 page thing will people be able to make their own 404 for the system to pop up ?


I am, too. Luckily, being an admin, I can delete my own comments to make corrections. I abuse that power. 

It'll be nice to be able to edit my own comments. Maybe I'll actually look as if I know what I'm doing for once.


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## Growly (Jun 17, 2006)

I am soooo happy all the upload stuff will be on the same page.
Nothing turns me off from an art site like going through 3+ pages to upload a single image (coughDAcough).


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## UndyingSong (Jun 17, 2006)

Hmmm, looking nice.

How much will the upgraded accounts be, and how long will they last? Will it be like LJ where it doesn't last? ; )

Also, those with upgraded accounts - Will they be advertised or such, at least more than non-donating members? (I hope not - even though I do plan to donate as soon as possible)


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## timoran (Jun 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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Are you the one in charge of English?

Uh-oh...


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## timoran (Jun 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> [*]Editable comments. Comments will be editable for up to 5 minutes after posting them. Discovered a typo in your latest discussion on the glory of banana nut muffins? Tell it to go blow itself and erase it's little life away!



Why only 5 minutes? Why not just be able to edit them whenever?

Will this use AJAX, or at least will it do the non-AJAX half of inline editing?

Will edit include delete in case you double post in a way the double post catcher doesn't catch?


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## Cyberhorn (Jun 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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you abuse power ?? no way! wait! who the hell are you and how did you get into dragoneers account!! :mrgreen:


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2006)

I think the biggest question since screenshots are one thing.

*Will it work?*


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## dragonfangs (Jun 17, 2006)

It will work, because well, you just saw it preview. LOL, but more importantly will it run ok, because some script in PHP that are used wrong can cause server load, and slow down. But im sure it will be fine. 

*Alkora, funny message in your sig. lol


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## *morningstar (Jun 18, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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I like the way this sounds. My huge DA pet peeve is that you have to subscribe to make it usable, but this sounds like a really good incentive for people to give to the site that won't shortchange users that either can't or choose not to donate. You're not forcing people to pay for functionality but for perks that will be visible to everyone.

Will it be a one time fee or a subscription-type deal?


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## The S (Jun 18, 2006)

Looks rather nice, to say the least.

I love it as it is, though, and (to my shame) am not a contributing user outside of contributing to drive space usage - but it sure looks sweet. I'm a firm believer in the saying, "whatever works" with a heavy emphasis on the word 'works'.

Yay for upgrades.


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## nrr (Jun 18, 2006)

_/me whistles... o/`_


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## min (Jun 18, 2006)

<3 custom error screens
<3 groups 
<3 pie


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2006)

dragonfangs said:
			
		

> It will work, because well, you just saw it preview. LOL, but more importantly will it run ok, because some script in PHP that are used wrong can cause server load, and slow down. But im sure it will be fine.
> 
> *Alkora, funny message in your sig. lol



I'm sorry, but since when does screenshots mean it will work?

We had previous screenshots of other versions of FA didn't mean it WORKED right? :/

That's the real test. People are willing to put up with more because yes FA is mainly free but it's a porn dump +faves and +watch with comments.

That doesn't mean FA doesn't serve a purpose, but people have to understand skeptism when many things happened in the past to cause it.


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## Almafeta (Jun 18, 2006)

*RE:  FA Code Update: Project Ferrox*



			
				min said:
			
		

> <3 groups



I still haven't figured out what groups are for...


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## dragonfangs (Jun 18, 2006)

Well groups is what it sounds like. For example a group of people that like cars, then they can create a group for "cars", and so on. Basically letting them talk among themselves, or anyone intrested.


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## Hex (Jun 18, 2006)

Almafeta said:
			
		

> I still haven't figured out what groups are for...



Presumably for people with common interests.  I'm looking forward to fursona species groups, myself. 

I can't wait for these changes.  Definitely going to get an upgraded account.  Love the banner and custom 404 ideas.


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## Pico (Jun 18, 2006)

Alkora said:
			
		

> You will be able to disable them.
> 
> The emotes were optained from phpbb.com.
> I don't think there's any restrictions in terms of use for them...
> ...


imho you should use the xmas smilies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 :*)


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## Dragoneer (Jun 19, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but since when does screenshots mean it will work?
> 
> We had previous screenshots of other versions of FA didn't mean it WORKED right? :/


This is true. We'll probably open up this version of FA on the beta so people can test the hell out of it.


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## Emerson (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm so damn behind on this sort of stuff. Ahem.

Lookin' good. Add me to the pot of folks who think it's swell.


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## awash2002 (Jun 19, 2006)

I can not wait till the new update is done


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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Fair enough, and thank you ^.^


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## Dragoneer (Jun 19, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Fair enough, and thank you ^.^


We really want to get this new version out as soon as possible, but we're not going to rush it out. If it goes up in two weeks, that's great... if it's pushed back two months, that's just as fine.

We're aiming for a more solid, more stable release. We have a working version now, if not slow. Speed issues should be muchly resolved with the new version along with a throng of bugs.


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## IanKeith (Jun 19, 2006)

Oh good, groups, more things to be excluded from. Just what I always wanted.

Groups are bloody pointless.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

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Yeah, I'd prefer you guys take your time on this, the other versions were botched because of some need to rush things. Learn from the past issues and hopefully it will be a good step in the right direction


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## K47 (Jun 19, 2006)

All looks really great to me! And ZOMG that avatar pic is so cwooot :3


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## Suule (Jun 19, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> This is true. We'll probably open up this version of FA on the beta so people can test the hell out of it.



I will be intrested in bughunting once more...


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## Dragoneer (Jun 19, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> I will be intrested in bughunting once more...


You can't hunt bugs when you're my bitch. Now, get back into the kitchen and make me some PIE.


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## Emerson (Jun 19, 2006)

Burrrrrrrrrn!


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## nrr (Jun 19, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> You can't hunt bugs when you're my bitch. Now, get back into the kitchen and make me some PIE.


You can't hunt or fix bugs at all if you don't know what the hell you're doing.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 19, 2006)

nrr said:
			
		

> You can't hunt or fix bugs at all if you don't know what the hell you're doing.


Hey, yer right. I don't know what I'm doing. Then again I'm not a coder, and no jack shit about it.


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## Suule (Jun 19, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> You can't hunt bugs when you're my bitch. Now, get back into the kitchen and make me some PIE.



I feel so abused... 



			
				nrr said:
			
		

> You can't hunt or fix bugs at all if you don't know what the hell you're doing.



Hunting bugs - making the program do what it's not supposed to...


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## dragon695 (Jun 20, 2006)

1) I hope that bbcode is fixed .

2) If funds are short, why not hold an art sale? Solicit some volunteers to create a submission or two each and then fundraise that way. We have some really good artists on here, I'm sure you could get at least a few of them to help? One of the things that is nice about the other galleries, other then DA, is that there aren't two tiered accounts. I'm not trying to be cheap, I'll donate to the kitty when I can (right now much of my extra $$ is going towards candidates who are trying to get rid of the idiots running our government). However, I just think it isn't fair to people out there who get by, but after paying internet and other bills, really can't afford to donate. I like to think that people should donate if they can, but it shouldn't be held against them if they can't. Just my $0.02.

3) Y!Gallery has offered to share code with you guys, but the mods over there said you don't want it. There are a ton of us who are refugees from over there and a lot of us loved the UI they had. Why not crib some of their code? There's a lot to like, like themable UI bother per user and per gallery.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 20, 2006)

dragon695 said:
			
		

> 1) I hope that bbcode is fixed .
> 
> 2) If funds are short, why not hold an art sale? Solicit some volunteers to create a submission or two each and then fundraise that way. We have some really good artists on here, I'm sure you could get at least a few of them to help? One of the things that is nice about the other galleries, other then DA, is that there aren't two tiered accounts. I'm not trying to be cheap, I'll donate to the kitty when I can (right now much of my extra $$ is going towards candidates who are trying to get rid of the idiots running our government). However, I just think it isn't fair to people out there who get by, but after paying internet and other bills, really can't afford to donate. I like to think that people should donate if they can, but it shouldn't be held against them if they can't. Just my $0.02.
> 
> 3) Y!Gallery has offered to share code with you guys, but the mods over there said you don't want it. There are a ton of us who are refugees from over there and a lot of us loved the UI they had. Why not crib some of their code? There's a lot to like, like themable UI bother per user and per gallery.


*"1) I hope that bbcode is fixed ."*
BBCode is fixed and working. We would enable it again on the main site now (it does work) but it's currently disabled due to the speed issues which have crept up again.

Once we fix that we will enable them again. Our coders are working on improving speed and scability in the new version of FA, which is vital to the site.

*2) If funds are short, why not hold an art sale?*
We're ok on money for now. Donations are coming in rather nicely and we should be set for the next few months. We've got some projects down the road for t-shirts, a possible Fender comic (GO TEAM VENTURE!) and some other lil' things.  Also, we're are working on ways to generate more money by offering Livejournal-account upgrades, but we'll do that once we have the platform and speed to do so and if we believe that it is in the best interest of the site longterm. We still have to discuss aspects of that.

But first and foremost, we're focusing on speed, not revenue. Speed is your salvation, Groove. Speed is your salvation.

*3) Y!Gallery has offered to share code with you guys...*
I have never spoken to a single mod/coder/entity at Y!Gallery, nor have there been any offers made since I've been on the administration team for the past year. I'm not sure who told you Y! offered but they are mistaken, and there is no truth at all to that claim and/or this occured before my time during FA's ill-fated first run.

The only other art board who has offered to help as been from the ArtPlz group. Nrr has helped out quite a bit.


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## Hex (Jun 20, 2006)

One thing I just noticed that y'all might fix with the update is the 'Favourite website' in everyone's userprofiles.  No matter what URL you imput, it'll aways like to 'furaffinity.net/*', * being the website you put in.  :O  For instance, if I put in Newegg.com, it would try to link to the ficticious 'www.furaffinity.net/newegg.com'.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 20, 2006)

Hex said:
			
		

> One thing I just noticed that y'all might fix with the update is the 'Favourite website' in everyone's userprofiles.  No matter what URL you imput, it'll aways like to 'furaffinity.net/*', * being the website you put in.  :O  For instance, if I put in Newegg.com, it would try to link to the ficticious 'www.furaffinity.net/newegg.com'.


It should note on the page's description you need to add http:// in front of all web addresses. Try that and it will fix the problem. And yes, we will re-visit this problem down the road.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 20, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> The only other art board who has offered to help as been from the ArtPlz group. Nrr has helped out quite a bit.



*cough different group name*


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## Dragoneer (Jun 20, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

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The Site With No Name? Come to think of it, I never heard what name you guys choice after the "departure".


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## ArrowTibbs (Jun 20, 2006)

It's 4curio now


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## Ripnerpner (Jun 20, 2006)

Will pictures finally be able to be labled as Lapine / Rabbit ?

They are pretty common in furry art and I hate not being able to search for my favorite species in art in my time of need hehe. =^_^=


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## Dragoneer (Jun 20, 2006)

Ripnerpner said:
			
		

> Will pictures finally be able to be labled as Lapine / Rabbit ?
> 
> They are pretty common in furry art and I hate not being able to search for my favorite species in art in my time of need hehe. =^_^=


Negative. Submissions will have a new search method which will allow people to enter keywords, then you can search by "rabbit" or "otter" or "oompa loompa".


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## Suule (Jun 20, 2006)

Tags are good. Tags are good. Repeat after me...


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## lutra (Jun 21, 2006)

Just wanted to thank the admins for doing such a great work!


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## Wolfblade (Jun 21, 2006)

Will the new system still add those timestamp number strings to the filenames? They seem a bit unneeded since the system automatically adds the artist's name to avoid the issue of matching filenames.

And in the case of one artist using the same filename twice, would it really be too much to ask that they just think of a different name for each image?

Not a major concern, but just a pesky little this-would-be-nice-to-see-go-away kinda thing. ^_^


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## Dragoneer (Jun 21, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Will the new system still add those timestamp number strings to the filenames? They seem a bit unneeded since the system automatically adds the artist's name to avoid the issue of matching filenames.
> 
> And in the case of one artist using the same filename twice, would it really be too much to ask that they just think of a different name for each image?
> 
> Not a major concern, but just a pesky little this-would-be-nice-to-see-go-away kinda thing. ^_^


Yes, it will still have timestamps, but they will be revised for new submissions. We're still working on that right now so I'm not sure what the final format will be.


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## Wolfblade (Jun 21, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Yes, it will still have timestamps, but they will be revised for new submissions. We're still working on that right now so I'm not sure what the final format will be.



What's the advantage of those actually? The only one that was explained to me before was the whole duplicate filename protection thing. Sorry I don't know more about this stuff already XD


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## Dragoneer (Jun 21, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

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It allows us control to know when files are updated, changed or modified and lets us control the database to better utilize file tracking (and, unfortunately, duplicate file naming. =P).


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## yak (Jun 21, 2006)

probably the best way to do this is to make the system rename original submission files when uploading to be the submission ID#. so that "Romantic evening.jpg" becomes "13549.jpg". no need to add a timestamp, since ctime() will show you the time the image was created(meaning the time it was uploaded to the server). no need to check filenames for posible duplicates, since ID# is unique.. 
a new filename can be later constructed from the title, artist name, etc..


```
//--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--

$img_name = 'Wohoo_cool_filename_prefix_'.$artist_name.'_'.$submision_title;
$img_type  = image_type_to_mime_type(exif_imagetype($IMG_PATH));

//--/--/--/--/--/--/--/--

header('Content-type: '.$img_type.';');
header('Content-disposition: attachment; filename="'.$img_name.'";');
readfile($IMG_PATH);
```

[edit] also i think this will prevent IE from saving  images without the extension.


----------



## zc456 (Jun 21, 2006)

I'm having a drool fit right all over the screenshots! I can't wait. And the "No avatar" avatar (XD) is cute. <3


----------



## Wolfblade (Jun 21, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> probably the best way to do this is to make the system rename original submission files when uploading to be the submission ID#. so that "Romantic evening.jpg" becomes "13549.jpg". no need to add a timestamp, since ctime() will show you the time the image was created(meaning the time it was uploaded to the server). no need to check filenames for posible duplicates, since ID# is unique..
> a new filename can be later constructed from the title, artist name, etc..
> 
> 
> ...



Does that mean that when a user saves an image, it gets saved as 13549.jpg, or gets a filename with the artist name and image title without any numbers in it?

Like I said, I don't know code, so I don't know if this is something worth troubling over or not. Just the really really nitpicky complaint that the numbers are annoying when saving stuff X3

Very trivial nitpick, but I was just curious. I know I've seen stuff before over teensy gripes like that getting a "hey yeah, that does make sense" so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. ^_^


----------



## Dragoneer (Jun 21, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Does that mean that when a user saves an image, it gets saved as 13549.jpg, or gets a filename with the artist name and image title without any numbers in it?


Well, I know as an artist I wouldn't want my work renamed, so...


----------



## nrr (Jun 21, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> ```
> $img_type  = image_type_to_mime_type(exif_imagetype($IMG_PATH));
> ```


Why, oh why, are you not using mime_content_type()?  It sure seems like its use here would make more sense.

The only sort of rationale I can think of for not using that function would be either to test image types internally (i.e., if (exif_imagetype(IMG_PATH) == IMGTYPE_PNG) { /* pass */ } elseif (...) { /* pass */ } else { /* pass */ }) or if you're using a distributed datastore like MogileFS where testing the MIME type against a stream is... unfeasible without lots and lots of latency.


----------



## nrr (Jun 21, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Does that mean that when a user saves an image, it gets saved as 13549.jpg, or gets a filename with the artist name and image title without any numbers in it?


No.  He's mangling the HTTP response headers such that the browser will attribute a different filename to the incoming remote stream from what is used on FA's disks.

Let's say that you have an image with a filename of _20060621-nrr-brevity.png_.  When you upload that to FA, you're given submission ID _131072_, and the application internally renames your image to _131072.png_ while also storing the _original filename_ and _image content type_ (you programmers in the audience will know why  in the database.  The application can look up submission _131072_ and read off _131072.png_ to the client and mangle the response headers such that the client will allow the user to save the stream as _20060621-nrr-brevity.png_, all based off what is stored in the database.


----------



## Kiyoshi (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm really loving how the new interface is turning out! 

Gogo!!


----------



## timoran (Jun 22, 2006)

I'd rather save it off as the original filename as uploaded. That way if I already have the pic from another source, it will alert me to a duplicate file when I try to save.

Thus, on server can be however you guys like, and then use that code to send me the original filename.


----------



## timoran (Jun 22, 2006)

Also when will we be able to delete comments from other users on our own art pages? This should be a high priority to solve a major trolling problem!


----------



## yak (Jun 22, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Does that mean that when a user saves an image, it gets saved as 13549.jpg, or gets a filename with the artist name and image title without any numbers in it?
> 
> Like I said, I don't know code, so I don't know if this is something worth troubling over or not. Just the really really nitpicky complaint that the numbers are annoying when saving stuff X3
> 
> Very trivial nitpick, but I was just curious. I know I've seen stuff before over teensy gripes like that getting a "hey yeah, that does make sense" so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. ^_^


i'm even thinking of making the filenames customiable per every user. in other words let you configure how you want the files to be named when you save them, via the use of meta tags, like {:id:}, {rig_fname:}, {:artist:} etc..  _(or something like that)_. 
currently we use this structure (random link from the index page)
*1150963906.zlodeylkk_seduction.jpg*
*{:timestamp:}.{:artist:}_{:title:}*  (extension will be auto-added)


there is nothing that would stop you from using a sheme like this
*{:artist:} - {:title:} ({rig_fname:})*  to have a filename like this
*zlodeylkk - seduction (stuff to upload #3).jpg*


----------



## yak (Jun 22, 2006)

nrr said:
			
		

> Why, oh why, are you not using mime_content_type()?  It sure seems like its use here would make more sense.


because this is an example script.   image mime-type is already known by that moment, because it is taken from the database. i just had to show what exactly did i mean by $img_type - and that is why i put those two functions between comment blocks.
and secondly - you'll probably chuckle - but i didn't know that function existed 



			
				nrr said:
			
		

> The only sort of rationale I can think of for not using that function would be either to test image types internally (i.e., if (exif_imagetype(IMG_PATH) == IMGTYPE_PNG) { /* pass */ } elseif (...) { /* pass */ } else { /* pass */ }) or if you're using a distributed datastore like MogileFS where testing the MIME type against a stream is... unfeasible without lots and lots of latency.


imagetype should be determined and stored when the file is being uploaded, only once. no use making use of uber slow filesystem calls _and_ database calls at the same time, especially since database calls can't be avoided - and filesystem calls can...


----------



## nrr (Jun 22, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> imagetype should be determined and stored when the file is being uploaded, only once. no use making use of uber slow filesystem calls _and_ database calls at the same time, especially since database calls can't be avoided - and filesystem calls can...


Oh, wait, I forgot.  This is PHP we're talking about.  This means that we have no asynchronous I/O and no threads.  Whatever.

You don't even have to store the content type of the data in most cases if it's binary because modern browsers are able to figure out what they're seeing, as long as the context for the data is set up properly (e.g., as the src attribute in <img />).  See also LiveJournal's userpic facility.


----------



## crabby_the_frog (Jun 22, 2006)

This all looks great, with only one small problem I can see...

Having groups means that some users will not be in groups, thus making them look/feel bad in comparison.

Just a thought... the rest looks great though.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jun 22, 2006)

crabby_the_frog said:
			
		

> Having groups means that some users will not be in groups, thus making them look/feel bad in comparison.


Unfortunately, this is one of those things where we have to weigh the positives of negatives. Some people will always feel excluded from everything we do in some way, some how.

The same argument can be put that not everybody will +watch or +fav my art, thus making people feel excluded. Well, this is true, and some people do... but I think the benefits are invaluable on the whole.


----------



## quentinwolf (Jun 22, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> i'm even thinking of making the filenames customiable per every user. in other words let you configure how you want the files to be named when you save them, via the use of meta tags, like {:id:}, {rig_fname:}, {:artist:} etc..  _(or something like that)_.
> currently we use this structure (random link from the index page)
> *1150963906.zlodeylkk_seduction.jpg*
> *{:timestamp:}.{:artist:}_{:title:}*  (extension will be auto-added)
> ...



Oh My God.  Yes.. YES... YES!!   I actually ended up making a customized PHP script that ran through my save folder, fixing the filenames... then a programming friend of mine, made a Perl script that did the same thing, a bit quicker and more efficiently.  Removes the 10 digit number, and converts the _ and .'s to spaces, and adds a dash after the artist name, so after running through the entire directory the files are cleaned up as  *artist - file name title etc.jpg*

This will be amazing.  I definitely look forward to the new interface.


----------



## dragonfangs (Jun 23, 2006)

Why not just have it [timestamp]_[username].[ext], basically having filename or original name can make the filename long :S . Or just encrypt the file name to md5.

Or something like this,

```
/*
Sql stuff, getting image information
ie.
$row['image_filename'] - original filename
$row['image_hash'] - hash filename (saved on disk) - Hash created by md5(filename + time())
$row['image_mime'] - file type
*/

header('Content-type: '.$row['image_mime']);

switch( $row['image_mime'] )
{
   case 'image/png':
      $ext = ".png";
      break;
   case 'image/gif':
      $ext = ".gif";
      break;
   case 'image/jpeg':
      $ext = ".jpg";
      break;
   case 'application/x-shockwave-flash':
      $ext = ".swf";
      break;
   /* more mime */
}

// If they want to download... then proceed.
if(isset($HTTP_GET_VARS['download']))
{
        header('Content-disposition: attachment; filename="'.$row['image_filename'].'";');
}

readfile(/* Path to users images*/ $row['image_hash'] . $ext);
```


----------



## crabby_the_frog (Jun 25, 2006)

*RE:   FA Code Update: Project Ferrox*



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> crabby_the_frog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The difference is that they would have a choice weither or not to fav your art, but the to join a super exclusive veterans group would be THEIR choice, not the person wanting to join...

Just a thought


----------



## yak (Jun 25, 2006)

dragonfangs said:
			
		

> Why not just have it [timestamp]_[username].[ext], basically having filename or original name can make the filename long :S . Or just encrypt the file name to md5.


Because fixed filename format probably would not suite the public as much as a flexible fomat.  
Besides, with so many features planned, i can't even imagine the possible meta-tags that the system could offer to use, so i preffer to keep things as scalable as possible without taxing the system too much - and this is exactly the case where beeing flexible could be a benefit in the future, and save possible hassle rewriting parts of the system. 
Especially since a few more CPU interations spent on making a customisable format is not significant.


----------



## yak (Jun 25, 2006)

Tellos said:
			
		

> yes, but when someone makes a custom thingy for their site. will itbe possible to disable viewing em? if you have no wish to view other peoples customised pages I mean.


Most certainly. At least i will vote for that. There should always be a "View as default" or maybe even "View as my own page style" option somewhere on the customised pages.  
And for the future reference - i will push for everything customisable to always have an option to be viewed as default.


----------



## yak (Jun 25, 2006)

Almafeta said:
			
		

> One:  Have you tested the new code on IE7?








Despite the "OMG, how true!" information depicted in this graph, we will be testing things on IE7 too. Infact, i would carry out the tests on as many browsers as i could install in my system. No more cross-browser incapability.



			
				Almafeta said:
			
		

> Two:  Will there be any sort of horizontal bar stealing screen real estate from the content?


Can't tell - i'm not the one that would code the  template. But i would try to point out inefficient layout parts when i spot them. 




			
				Almafeta said:
			
		

> Three:  Will paid users be able to override the display preferences of other users?  On sites like LiveJournal and MySpace, some people use the 'customizable interfaces' option to make their user pages into visual crimes against nature, and I don't want that to happen to FurAffinity.


As per my previuos reply, the feature would be available. I'm not the one to decide weather it would be paid for or free thou...
[/quote]


----------



## yak (Jun 25, 2006)

Pico said:
			
		

> also will there be a way to disable emoticons?


is that required? it would be possible to implement, if there are enough votes for this


----------



## yak (Jun 25, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Cyberhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It  was suggested somewhere by somebody, and there was an actual debate over this.. As far as i can remember, it was desided that the users hould have the possibility to edit their own posts and comments only within first 15 minutes of the actual post. I agree with that desigion. 
Still not aware if it was accepted by other admins or not..

I suggest for 404 images to be picked from a pool of the alike images... Randomly or on a specified pattern, maybe both, not sure how yet (need suggestions). I guess users would be available to submit their own images if they would feel like it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 25, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> Pico said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Emoticon floods are generally used as an attack on people's userpages, this is  not a problem limited to FA but many art galleries. Even with hi speed many user's pages slow down when there are too many animations or emoticons on it.

Either there is a limit to the amount of emoticons, or allowing people to disable them would be in order.


----------



## Pico (Jun 25, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> Pico said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well I just don't like the emoticon graphics (except :note: and :sleepy: ) and prefer to use this face -> (o: (but the other way around!), yet FA and these forums always convert : o to the smiley , which is annoying.  i would like the ability to disable all smileys on my submissions or even my userpage so no one can see them there.  or perhaps let us customize smileys for our pages ?


----------



## timoran (Jun 25, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> It  was suggested somewhere by somebody, and there was an actual debate over this.. As far as i can remember, it was desided that the users hould have the possibility to edit their own posts and comments only within first 15 minutes of the actual post. I agree with that desigion.
> Still not aware if it was accepted by other admins or not..



Nobody has yet explained why having a 15 minute or n-number-of-minutes limit on editability is good.

Sometimes you realize a mistake and need to edit the next day.

Why go through the extra development time to lock out past 15 minutes only to frustrate people? What is the benefit?

Just make it always editable.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jun 25, 2006)

timoran said:
			
		

> Nobody has yet explained why having a 15 minute or n-number-of-minutes limit on editability is good.


To limit trolling and people covering up their tracks.


----------



## timoran (Jun 25, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> timoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Leave an audit trail visible to admins. That will be easier to program, and make the edit feature less useless, than a 15 minute cap.


----------



## Victoria Viper (Jun 26, 2006)

Hmph. Well, this all sounds nice enough. I just hope it'll actually work, and it'll actually be something we'll stick with for a while. It's hard to get too enthusiastic about this particular upgrade when we'll probably have another upgrade that's "100 times better than our old, crappy one!" in a few months or so. 

But, I suppose that's life in the computer age.


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Jun 26, 2006)

I vote for the option to disable smilies too, the ones on the actual site are too big for the text so they stretch sentences and make gaps.


----------



## Victoria Viper (Jun 26, 2006)

Oh, hey, can I make a suggestion? If not, please ignore this. ^_^

But, anyway, I, personally, would love having a "Critique Encouraged/Optional/Discouraged" option on pictures. I know that some artists would really love to have their work nitpicked into little pieces, whereas others would rather never hear a bad word spoken about their creations. It'd be nice to know who wants what for people, like me, who just like to roam around and randomly comment on things. 

Just an idea.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jun 26, 2006)

VictoriaViper said:
			
		

> Oh, hey, can I make a suggestion? If not, please ignore this. ^_^
> 
> But, anyway, I, personally, would love having a "Critique Encouraged/Optional/Discouraged" option on pictures. I know that some artists would really love to have their work nitpicked into little pieces, whereas others would rather never hear a bad word spoken about their creations. It'd be nice to know who wants what for people, like me, who just like to roam around and randomly comment on things.
> 
> Just an idea.


I dig this idea. I'd post it over to the suggestion bin, add a poll... see what other people think. I beleive this warrants its own thread. What say you?


----------



## Emerson (Jun 26, 2006)

One option I'd like to see added (and forgive me if this has already been suggested) is to be able to split your gallery into sections. For example, I'd like to have a section just for gift art and commissions I receive, so its not mixed in with my own art.

I apologize if I just asked for a miracle. :3


----------



## Dragoneer (Jun 26, 2006)

Emerson said:
			
		

> One option I'd like to see added (and forgive me if this has already been suggested) is to be able to split your gallery into sections. For example, I'd like to have a section just for gift art and commissions I receive, so its not mixed in with my own art.
> 
> I apologize if I just asked for a miracle. :3


I don't think it'd be too hard to do that.


----------



## yak (Jun 26, 2006)

I vote for it..


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm all for it ^_^


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 26, 2006)

I'd also like the ability to disable comments too.


----------



## yak (Jun 27, 2006)

woah.. that was unexpected..


----------



## wasd20x6 (Jun 27, 2006)

I have only one request for the new site. If it would be possible to list how many mature or adult works that a person has done, that could be helpful. Otherwise, people who block such art wouldn't be able to tell who posts that kind of stuff or not.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 27, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> woah.. that was unexpected..



What is unexpected?


----------



## ArrowTibbs (Jun 27, 2006)

The Spanish Inquisition!

Sorry Arshes, that was just irresistable


----------



## Emerson (Jun 27, 2006)

*RE:  FA Code Update: Project Ferrox*



			
				ArrowTibbs said:
			
		

> The Spanish Inquisition!
> 
> Sorry Arshes, that was just irresistable



That was good. I can't believe I didn't see that opportunity...


----------



## yak (Jun 28, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> yak said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i can't understand why would anyone want to disable that?
this would make FA some sort of image dumps, some galeries to showcase your work or somehing....  besides, if people would want to comment on a pic, rest assured - they will find a way. shouts, notes, PM's, etc..  so... why just not let them write that where it was supposed to be written?

could you please explain the thoughts behind this sugestion?

and also, thank you for suggesting things in the first place. i can't say this for others, but personally, i would love FA to be community-friendly and open. and this means that your wish is my command. if you can suggest something and properly explain your suggestion, and it is possible to implement, AND it will be voted for - it would most likely be implemented.
if not with the current codebase, then with the release of FA codenamed "Ferrox"


----------



## Fenrir (Jun 28, 2006)

OMG the preview text is in Latin?! 



Hmm, still no possibility to change one's user name?
Will it be available in another uppgrade?


It feels annoying having to create a new account and loose all the comments...


----------



## Victoria Viper (Jun 28, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> VictoriaViper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh. Well, of course. Who am I to say no to the Lead Administratimon? Heh. ^_^;


----------



## Dragoneer (Jun 28, 2006)

Fenrir said:
			
		

> Hmm, still no possibility to change one's user name?


I want to change my account name as well, so... we'll see what happens down the road with that.


----------



## Firon (Jun 28, 2006)

I do hope you guys don't have magic_quotes_* or register_globals on in your php config. 
(also, use lighttpd and eaccelerator, and get your code compliant with PHP5 )


----------



## Ralesk (Jul 8, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Wolfblade said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Content-Disposition is your friend.  Please do use it 

I recommend having an unsigned int kind of submission ID (which is what we have now, but you could totally save the files under that name too, makes it excellent for avoiding file system troubles with funky characters) and in all cases the header should Content-Disposition the image to have a name as the original (which is to be saved in the database).



			
				Fenrir said:
			
		

> OMG the preview text is in Latin?!



A suggestion (mostly unrelated to Lorem Ipsum  ): please either use UTF-8 all over the site (and not just parts of it as now), or don't ever escape /&#(x[0-9A-F]{1,4}|[0-9]{1,5});/i (which is how dA seems to do it FINALLY after years and years of bitching at them for escaping the gosh darned entities).

That's all I have for now.


----------



## kawayama (Jul 24, 2006)

i was just wondering if there's any change to how stories/poems are uploaded? as it is now, the only way to upload a story, and have it immediately visible, is to upload a txt file. which, by definition, is pure text.

it would be nice to be able to use *bold* and _italics_ in stories. [align=center]centering text could also be fun. [/align] not to mention inlining pictures. that could really enhance a text. (we could limit it to pictures stored in the FA database)

is there any way this could be implemented?

edit: i brought it up here, because i didn't see anything about it in the new screen shots.


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 24, 2006)

kawayama said:
			
		

> i was just wondering if there's any change to how stories/poems are uploaded? as it is now, the only way to upload a story, and have it immediately visible, is to upload a txt file. which, by definition, is pure text.
> 
> it would be nice to be able to use *bold* and _italics_ in stories. [align=center]centering text could also be fun. [/align] not to mention inlining pictures. that could really enhance a text. (we could limit it to pictures stored in the FA database)
> 
> is there any way this could be implemented?


As we mentioned a while ago but the thread kind of got buried. But yeah, this is one of those things that we're looking into and trying to improve.


----------



## Greyblade (Aug 7, 2006)

You know, I'd settle for just being able to read the submission story without having to download it.
Not that this computer is public access, neither is it out of my sight long enough for someone to raid, but paranoia is paranoia. ._.;


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 7, 2006)

Greyblade said:
			
		

> You know, I'd settle for just being able to read the submission story without having to download it.


We're planning on allowing just that in the new version.


----------



## offthewall234 (Sep 15, 2006)

I'd like to suggest something for the Catchpa system.

I need to find it again, but there was a system that worked by clicking on three kittens...yes kittens. I'll post the link when I find it.

~Akkeresu


----------



## Zippo (Sep 21, 2006)

one thing im in fear of, which im sure will happen, is that when artist groups group up, forming their own groups, it will be decided upon in which class they are at. if you are concidered popular, then you belong in a group of high ranks, if your pretty much unknown like myself, i will be denied into such groups, because im not of their class/caliber. To me, this only seprates the winning and loosing herds, making it wasier to ignore the junk and focas on the good stuff, which flatout sucks.
I really dont know who's smart idea this was to have these groups, as I guess this is concidered the golden age of FA, as everyone is on equal footing as far as individuality goes, but when this goes live, toss the evenness into the recyclebin. I can tell you right now how fustrating it will bem but like one voice matters, esp not when this comes into place. I knwo gorups sound good and all right now as a great new extension, but you also got to look at the drawbacks on the more 'unfortunate' users that havent gained the popularity to be in the what will be the better parts of the site.

-Z


----------



## bluedragon_012 (Oct 29, 2006)

Finaly a search Engine!!!


----------



## missdavies (Nov 16, 2006)

Yes, that's what I'm eager for @_@ I've been dying without that search engine.  What's the latest release date looking like?


----------



## Ahkahna (Nov 16, 2006)

Zippo said:
			
		

> one thing im in fear of, which im sure will happen, is that when artist groups group up, forming their own groups, it will be decided upon in which class they are at. if you are concidered popular, then you belong in a group of high ranks, if your pretty much unknown like myself, i will be denied into such groups, because im not of their class/caliber. To me, this only seprates the winning and loosing herds, making it wasier to ignore the junk and focas on the good stuff, which flatout sucks.
> I really dont know who's smart idea this was to have these groups, as I guess this is concidered the golden age of FA, as everyone is on equal footing as far as individuality goes, but when this goes live, toss the evenness into the recyclebin. I can tell you right now how fustrating it will bem but like one voice matters, esp not when this comes into place. I knwo gorups sound good and all right now as a great new extension, but you also got to look at the drawbacks on the more 'unfortunate' users that havent gained the popularity to be in the what will be the better parts of the site.
> 
> -Z



I'll have to agree with you on that.
I mean, it seems like a good idea but I do feel that people would be 'put out' by such an option. One could say "deal with it and make your own group" but even then, it's just unfair.


----------



## uncia2000 (Nov 16, 2006)

Ahkahna said:
			
		

> Zippo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah... a good thread to resurrect, perhaps.

Could play that either way, I'm sure: groups can be equally useful on a more sociable footing and/or for our "sketchier" community members. 
Not everyone's here to be considered only on their merits as an "elite artist", surely?

"Fairness" is an awkward concept to implement well, though, it must be said...


----------



## Ahkahna (Nov 16, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Ahkahna said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's also a good point. Not everyone can get fair treatment, and if there is concern about being rejected from a goup there will be the option to make their own. 

It's hit or miss. I wouldn't mind seeing groups, I wouldn't mind making a group, but I'd be concerned that people would feel left out, which means I would be one of those people who accepted everyone XD


----------



## uncia2000 (Nov 16, 2006)

Ahkahna said:
			
		

> That's also a good point. Not everyone can get fair treatment, and if there is concern about being rejected from a goup there will be the option to make their own.
> 
> It's hit or miss. I wouldn't mind seeing groups, I wouldn't mind making a group, but I'd be concerned that people would feel left out, which means I would be one of those people who accepted everyone XD



_*smiles and purrs to that*_

Does that presume we should encourage the concept of private/closed groups, though?
There are various ways to shift the balance, such as only listing the public groups and not permitting a change to private... There's a lot that obviously depends on the implementation and scope of "groups", of course.


----------



## Ahkahna (Nov 16, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Ahkahna said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How would the private or closed groups work? Would artwork they post  be viewable to the community? Would commentary be allowed by people outside that group? Or would it be a strict setting that allows only group members to view, comment and favorite? (if there's something about this already, could I be directed to it? X3)


----------



## uncia2000 (Nov 16, 2006)

Ahkahna said:
			
		

> How would the private or closed groups work? Would artwork they post  be viewable to the community? Would commentary be allowed by people outside that group? Or would it be a strict setting that allows only group members to view, comment and favorite? (if there's something about this already, could I be directed to it? X3)



Oh... so many questions. Good ones, though.
Yeah, I was hoping to get "taskforces" set up to handle such various matters as the scoping for and implementation of groups. Our org structure wasn't going to fly with that before and I'm still not sure whether it can.

Personally, I'm all in favor of keeping things as open as possible. If people wish to swap submissions in private, there is probably a place for that in a community even though I'd prefer that full works be shared. Could _perhaps_ be encouraged by not granting the full range of functions (particularly +favs?) to those or possibly pulling back comments to the group (noticeboard) level: more a sort of "pass it around" exercise than a permanent contribution to the community as a whole... 
There is the obvious hook, though, that a final version of a work-in-progress (or any other uploaded item) could be promoted "out" of that private group following ongoing thoughts/discussion/reworking there. That would be a _positive_ use of such a "private first" approach, I think.
Public groups would be more of a direct hook into the public submissions/main site submissions with the extra functionality of that group noticeboard and any other adds.
*
I was hoping to see a lot more focused discussion on this, of course.


_02c, only, fwiw..._


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## shy (Nov 16, 2006)

I have always liked the community idea, such as seen on DA in their communities. 

I also like the idea of optional closed-membership, and invitation-only groups [or I should say, memberships are approved by the mod(s) of the community and said mods have the ability to kick and ban beligerant users]. This is very useful for groups who are engaging in, say, illustrated RP sessions and don't want outside commentary. It is also very useful when people "get beligerant or otherwise un-socialble". There will need to be some sort of ability to moderate a group, I see that much. 

Now whether or not non group members can/can't actually /see/ the submissions being made, ect, I don't have an opinion on. I'm not a coder so I don't know how hairy of a task that would be. 

And then comes the part where I talk about my feelings. o/~feeliinnngss ~o

You know... If you don't like that a group is closed, or that you are rejected (or ejected for whatever reason)... Too bad, I say. Go find another one. I am sure there will be plenty, from Road Rovers RP groups to group-shares of "displacer wolves w/ 3ft summer sausages sausaging school busses". Chances are if you take that much offense to the fact that you aren't allowed in a group, you wouldn't have got along well with the people inside anyway. Sorry, but cliques exist and If you are so emotionally fragile that you cannot handle seeing a party you aren't invited to then that's your problem. I can pretty well assume there will be many more public groups than private ones anyway.

And [expletive, expletive deleted] who [expletive] cares about who is POPULAR or not? Really. Who freaking cares. I hope people do not spend their time thinking about this sort of thing, but I know they do. Gee [expletive] whiz. GO HAVE FUN ON THE INTERNET ALREADY.

LOL point: groups good, private groups good. *thumbs up*


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## kyubi_youma (Nov 17, 2006)

oohoohooh speaking of da is there gonna be a shout box type thing yah know like on da http://shout.deviantart.com/popup
<<is a big fan of da's sb... its fun^_^


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## N3X15 (Nov 17, 2006)

kyubi_youma said:
			
		

> oohoohooh speaking of da is there gonna be a shout box type thing yah know like on da http://shout.deviantart.com/popup
> <<is a big fan of da's sb... its fun^_^



Well...  If it doesn't create a hueg load on the database and server (500 people all posting at one time , it might be something to look into.


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## Twile (Nov 18, 2006)

Ahkahna said:
			
		

> How would the private or closed groups work? Would artwork they post  be viewable to the community? Would commentary be allowed by people outside that group? Or would it be a strict setting that allows only group members to view, comment and favorite? (if there's something about this already, could I be directed to it? X3)



Obviously I'm not an admin or coder, but if I had my way...

I think I would actually keep groups somewhat minimal. I haven't used groups on other sites, so I don't know what all they could do, but if I were designing them they'd mostly have an open, visible membership list and a main page from which people can talk back and forth. Not too different from a forum really, people could post comments, have discussions, and embed images and such in their posts. Groups would all be listed so you could go through and check off all the ones which interest you. Group messages (comments, new users, etc) would be separated from the main messages so you could, for example, prioritize responding to comments and watches for *you* before doing that to more generic ones in the group.

With all that said and done you might wonder what a group would be useful for. Simply put it would allow like-minded individuals on FA to find each other and post in an area where they're naturally isolated from people who don't care for what's being posted. Currently to find users who like the same things as you, you have to do multi-step solutions such as searching for a certain type of art, looking at the artists who draw it, looking at the favorites of the artists, looking at the watchers and watchees of the artists, etc etc, just to find people with a common interest. With groups... say you have a fetish group, or a Dragoneer fan art group, or a jazz group, or a black and white photography group, or whatever else you can think up. You'd find it, join it, meet new people with similar interests (yay, new friends) and get to share related artstuffs.

I wouldn't make exclusive groups possible in any way, shape, or form--the worst that could happen is somebody could be banned from commenting in a group, as they can be banned from commenting on a userpage, if they're clearly not in the spirit of the group and just there to harass users for their interests. No, I wouldn't have things exclusive or private, because I feel there are already so many ways to do that. Notes are private. IM programs and email are private. Obviously a lot of popular artists are already friends with each other, they already have their own art and friend circles, do private OC sessions, etc. There's no reason to extend this pre-existing situation (which, on the part of your everyday talent-free fur, is quite frustrating) to groups and make things like "__(Artist name)___'s Digimon Fan art group [Invitation only][Membership list hidden]". While some would like the exclusivity, I'm sure they've been making do before now, and probably have their own groups in some other form. Were such a group to exist, a lot of people would be bummed out because they might see it and really want to be in it, but not be able to join, request an invite, or even see who's in. Or if they could see who's in, they might try to make friends with someone for the primary purpose of hoping they "leak" art from the group... it'd just be messy and result in even more elitism and drama. And if groups were unlisted, then people would wonder what sorts of things they were missing out on. People here don't like missing art they might like, which is why a number of people now are very upset that FA isn't telling them when artists they're watching submit new art--they don't want to miss out. FA is supposed to be an art appreciation community, hence why we've got comments and favorites and watching and stuff. I'd hate to see it polluted with a higher degree of exclusivity, because in the end it only really benefits a small number of users with a dying urge to share things in private--users who will do so through other means anyway if FA doesn't provide it for them.


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## dave hyena (Nov 18, 2006)

Twile said:
			
		

> I wouldn't make exclusive groups possible in any way



Ya, I totally agree with you're saying here.


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## kyubi_youma (Nov 18, 2006)

N3X15 said:
			
		

> Well...  If it doesn't create a hueg load on the database and server (500 people all posting at one time , it might be something to look into.



ooh yay


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## Ahkahna (Nov 20, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Ahkahna said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If possible, it could be set up much like a livejournal Community where users have the ability to create a community and set moderators on their own 'groups'. 

1â€¢ If they want an open club/community then it could be an auto join and no one would need to approve anyone else, they'd be able to post as soon as they join. All comments, and favorites could be made by members and non members of that community.
2â€¢ If they want it an open to public view yet mod accepted deal, then users could select the 'join club' and a message would state something along the lines of *"You have selected to join 'Such and Such' community which is Community Mod approved. You will get a message in your notes when you've been accepted." * All comments, and favorites could be made by members and non members of this community _if_ the mod selects it to be so.
3â€¢ If it's a closed community, users can select to join and the same would be stated above. However, this would be considered a private group, so acceptance would be on a case by case or invite. The mod could make it so works are published to view or private view. Only members of the community could favorite or comment on pieces within the club.

When I think more on this (busy cleaning house) I'll edit this.


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## capthavoc123 (Nov 20, 2006)

I know somebody has already asked this, but is there any word on a date for the new format?

I only ask because I'm getting kind of frustrated with finding out that people have been removed from my watchlist, even though they're still listed in the control panel.


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## kadath062 (Nov 20, 2006)

I definintely can't wait for the new FA. It definitely would benefit from those improvements! 

One thing I have to ask Dragoneer - and I'm sorry if this has been asked already: 

Will our watches, watchers, submissions, favourites, comments, notes, journals, pageviews, etc. be transferred to the new FA, or will they be lost? I know it would be a royal pain in the arse to go back and reupload all my old art and rewatch all my favourite artists and refave their work >.>


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## uncia2000 (Nov 20, 2006)

kadath062 said:
			
		

> Will our watches, watchers, submissions, favourites, comments, notes, journals, pageviews, etc. be transferred to the new FA, or will they be lost? I know it would be a royal pain in the arse to go back and reupload all my old art and rewatch all my favourite artists and refave their work >.>



All of these _should_ be readily transferable, I'd hope. Nothing overly-complex in those, even if it is rather a large quantity of data.
Will certainly be nudging totally a total transfer, anyhow.


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## kadath062 (Nov 22, 2006)

I should hope they do go through. It'd be such a pain to rewatch/fav everything, not to mention it'd probably cause a huge spike in traffic when EVERYBODY tries to get everything back to the way it was. :X

Of course, at the rate submissions keep disappearing into "inbox oblivion" at this point, I dunno if it'd even matter :<

Any idea if the invisible inbox submissions problem will be resolved soon...if ever? I've decided to stop posting art until it is fixed because my pics never show up in anybody's inboxes, and nobody else's ever show up in mine :/


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## N3X15 (Nov 24, 2006)

Yeah, we're working on making the system transferrable.  

*crosses fingers*


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## Kitsuneko (Dec 3, 2006)

Just a quick question...

with the new system, if you have an upgraded account, I would love if we had something like the DeviantID that DeviantArt has. If you aren't familiar with it, it's a little ID pic you can make of yourself or your character with some stats and whatnot on it, it's like a pictorial profile at a glance. It's such a nice, quaint, cute feature (the ONLY thing I like about dA, actually) that I think it'd be fun to have it here (being artists and the like usually)!!

Do you think it's something that with upgraded accounts, would be possible (e.g. in a separate section instead of having to make it your "featured" image)?

Thanks ^_^

p.s. I'm excited about Ferrox ^_^ It means I can start posting again :3


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## Dragoneer (Dec 3, 2006)

kadath062 said:
			
		

> Will our watches, watchers, submissions, favourites, comments, notes, journals, pageviews, etc. be transferred to the new FA, or will they be lost? I know it would be a royal pain in the arse to go back and reupload all my old art and rewatch all my favourite artists and refave their work >.>


Our goal is to transfer everything over to the new system. If, theoretically, FA had to be offline for a week to port over the data we'd do it... because it'd be worth it in the end. 

But frankly, I estimate final downtime to be under a day. And with a full 100% transfer.


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## KerstinOrion (Dec 3, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> Tellos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, thank goodness.  I'd prefer to see everything in my defaut view, whether someone has customized their page or not.  One person's idea of color scheme is another person's eyebleed.


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## Mewtwolover (Feb 9, 2007)

Zippo said:
			
		

> one thing im in fear of, which im sure will happen, is that when artist groups group up, forming their own groups, it will be decided upon in which class they are at. if you are concidered popular, then you belong in a group of high ranks, if your pretty much unknown like myself, i will be denied into such groups, because im not of their class/caliber. To me, this only seprates the winning and loosing herds, making it wasier to ignore the junk and focas on the good stuff, which flatout sucks.
> I really dont know who's smart idea this was to have these groups, as I guess this is concidered the golden age of FA, as everyone is on equal footing as far as individuality goes, but when this goes live, toss the evenness into the recyclebin. I can tell you right now how fustrating it will bem but like one voice matters, esp not when this comes into place. I knwo gorups sound good and all right now as a great new extension, but you also got to look at the drawbacks on the more 'unfortunate' users that havent gained the popularity to be in the what will be the better parts of the site.
> 
> -Z





			
				Twile said:
			
		

> I wouldn't make exclusive groups possible in any way, shape, or form--the worst that could happen is somebody could be banned from commenting in a group, as they can be banned from commenting on a userpage, if they're clearly not in the spirit of the group and just there to harass users for their interests. No, I wouldn't have things exclusive or private, because I feel there are already so many ways to do that. Notes are private. IM programs and email are private. Obviously a lot of popular artists are already friends with each other, they already have their own art and friend circles, do private OC sessions, etc. There's no reason to extend this pre-existing situation (which, on the part of your everyday talent-free fur, is quite frustrating) to groups and make things like "__(Artist name)___'s Digimon Fan art group [Invitation only][Membership list hidden]". While some would like the exclusivity, I'm sure they've been making do before now, and probably have their own groups in some other form. Were such a group to exist, a lot of people would be bummed out because they might see it and really want to be in it, but not be able to join, request an invite, or even see who's in. Or if they could see who's in, they might try to make friends with someone for the primary purpose of hoping they "leak" art from the group... it'd just be messy and result in even more elitism and drama. And if groups were unlisted, then people would wonder what sorts of things they were missing out on. People here don't like missing art they might like, which is why a number of people now are very upset that FA isn't telling them when artists they're watching submit new art--they don't want to miss out. FA is supposed to be an art appreciation community, hence why we've got comments and favorites and watching and stuff. I'd hate to see it polluted with a higher degree of exclusivity, because in the end it only really benefits a small number of users with a dying urge to share things in private--users who will do so through other means anyway if FA doesn't provide it for them.


I totally agree with both of you. I hope we wont see exclusive groups in FA.


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## kadath062 (Feb 9, 2007)

I agree with you too. Groups will end up making a lot of people upset in the long run, and may lead to exclusiveness. :/


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## kawayama (Feb 9, 2007)

i thought groups would function more or less as on y!gallery, where they are more like folders of common content - i.e. a foreskin group (for pictures of guys with foreskin), an albanian group (creators who are albanian), a blue furry group, etc. all pictures would show up in the main gallery also.


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## kawayama (Feb 9, 2007)

on further reflection, such a group system would be pretty redundant if the tags system is well programmed. and people remember to tag their pictures. 

tags: blue fur, albania, foreskin.


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## phantom-inker (Feb 10, 2007)

Not to flog a dead horse, but I'd like to talk about the new search system being implemented --- but this isn't your typical "yay, search is coming!" or "waa, I want search!" post.

I'm wondering if I can help.

I'm a degreed computer scientist with 20+ years experience; I'm fluent in C/C++ and PHP (among 20-ish other languages ranging from Scheme and Lisp to things you've never heard of); and I've written search engines before (among a million or so other lines of code), so I know where the bottlenecks and caveats tend to be.

From my point of view, I'm not so much worried about the usability of the search engine's user-interface so much as I'm worried about its performance --- that's what'll make or break it.  You guys have some serious system load and fairly large search sets, and in that kind of environment, the computational load of a search is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd love to be able to talk with your current devs over IM or e-mail about this and see if I can't help point you in good directions.

In short, if the phrase "Baeza-Yates algorithm with exponential search" doesn't mean anything to you, you might want to talk with me 

(...well...  er...  despite the fact that Baeza-Yates has been empirically shown not to be the fastest algorithm, but that's beside the point.)

Whether I'd have the time to write any of the code myself is a whole different question, since I'm over-busy as it is --- but the lack of a good search engine here has been irking me as much as it's been irking everybody else, and the only thing different about me is that I could probably do something to change that if I put my mind to it.  So I'm offering what help I can, at a minimum to ensure you're all pointed in the right direction on the search engine.


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