# An Explanation of Things



## Dragoneer (Jul 25, 2007)

Where do I begin...

First off, let me begin by saying that Master Yoda was right. Emotions lead the path to the Dark Side. Now that I have fully outed myself as a geektard, allow me to provide something of an explanation as to why we got where we are.

I'm not going to point fingers -- mistakes were made all around, and I can't take those back. I'm not asking for forgiveness or support. I have no doubt that a lot of your are mad at both Alkora and I. Things went sour, got out of hand, and I was hoping to keep this a personal, private issue but things got out of hand and assumptions were made, leading to where we are right now.

First, Alkora, I owe you an apology. Despite our differences, I overreacted to your offer and took to the defense. For the first time since I helped bring the site back with Alk, I'd faced the strange realization that I could lose FA. Frankly, that scared me, and I felt like I was put in the single worse position thatI ever wanted to be. 

As a group, we've given thousands of hours to this site, and as an entire community, hundreds of thousands. I care about this site more than most people will ever know, and would not do anything to willingly jeopardize the site or put the community at risk.

_I am commited to FA, and will not let this site come to harm. _What happened was regrettable, but I can assure you it will not happen again. This site is growing on a daily basis, and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of the fantastic team that helps run this -- Yak, Crypto, Ice Wolfy, Damaratus, Pinkuh, Wolfblade, Wicht and the entire crew who devote their time to the improvement of the site as a whole.

I had a momentary weakness -- fear. I'm not afraid to admit that. My love for FA is sometimes too strong, and like a parent, I can get overprotective of our baby at times. And for that, I do feel shame.

- Preyar/The Dragoneer

PS: Alkora, I'm willing to take you up on your offer, but I'd like to discuss it with you first.


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## Arcturus (Jul 25, 2007)

Maybe now you know how I felt, back in 2005, Dragoneer.

And why I hated you for So. Long.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 25, 2007)

In addition, one of my greater fears is if FA fell into the wrong hands. Somebody who didn't care. Somebody who just wanted profit, not to build the community, not out of love, but money.

I've watched so many places fall when the primary objective of money became the focus. The Forest on SL was purchased, bought out, and turned into a commercial land and the group who called it home were basically forced out if they didn't pay. Ultima Online, a place I called home for over five years, where I served under the name of "Counselor Saracen" on Europa/Drachs assisting users... I watched it chang overnight in the name of bringing in more cash at the expense of the community that kept it alive. I've seen other sites get eaten up, becoming nothing more than shells for product placement and revenue, putting the product first, community second. I've watched them wither and die slowly, and that's the last thing I wanted to see happen to FA.

That was my first fear and worry, and one of the reasons I panicked. I didn't want to see investments and dedication of myself, Yak, Crypto and the others go to waste to some person who's primary interest is the god Profit.


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## Wesha (Jul 25, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> That was my first fear and worry, and one of the reasons I panicked. I didn't want to see investments and dedication of myself, Yak, Crypto and the others go to waste to some person who's primary interest is the god Profit.



Shoot... where's my quote book when I need it? Quoting from memory.



> On admission to Buckingham Palace, Queen came to Bernard Shaw.
> "It's true, Mr. Shaw, that you said that any woman can be bought?"
> "Certainly, it is true, your Majesty."
> "Even me?"
> ...


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## Fen-Fen (Jul 25, 2007)

I think that it was a brave thing for you to admit that you were at fault instead of pointing all the blame on Alkora. Not many people can do that and honestly mean it. I myself kind of sat back and had a feeling that it'd be back up (not so quickly, mind you) soon. But I'm glad it's back up because this is the main site I post my art on (DA's become too big for me) and I've met some cool people on here.

Hopefully some sort of compromise can be made between you and Alkora, Preyfar. And after your explanation as to why you "over reacted" is completely understandable. You're attached to FA since you and many others were with it from the start. 

I hope this site can stay for years to come. Cheers. :]


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## webkilla (Jul 25, 2007)

as long as FA doesn't get into a DA-type deal like they had with Jark, where the mods actually started banning users for even mentioning the episode let alone start making questions...


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## crabby_the_frog (Jul 25, 2007)

I forgive both of you, Preyfar. You did what you did, because it seemed like the right thing. And we can't be mad at you for something like that.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 25, 2007)

Fen-Fen said:
			
		

> Hopefully some sort of compromise can be made between you and Alkora, Preyfar. And after your explanation as to why you "over reacted" is completely understandable. You're attached to FA since you and many others were with it from the start.
> 
> I hope this site can stay for years to come. Cheers. :]


It didn't help that I've got 90,000 things going on in my life at the same time. My best friend (and roommate) is moving out, meaning I'm going to be alone in a strange, foreign country with no friends. At al. I've also worked about 150 hours in the past ten days at my job. I've also got 20+ hours of flying time on August 2nd, and I absolutel loathe flying.

When I was approached, I had zero sleep, just gotten off work and was tired...  It didn't help things any. =/


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## DigitalMan (Jul 25, 2007)

I find it all completely understandable. I don't know of anyone who can think with a completely rational mind all of the time, uninhibited by emotions; last I checked, that's classified as science fiction.

Really, this situation has made me realize that you've got a lot more than some furry pr0n site here. It's a real community. Quite inspiring, really.


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## SDWolf (Jul 25, 2007)

Let me start off by saying that I appreciate your admitting your mistake and publicly apologizing.  That's not an easy thing to do, and I hope the others involved in this mess will do the same.

However, between this and the other issue (*cough*blueroo*cough*), it's a given that a great deal of end-user confidence has been undermined, and more importantly, a fair amount of damage has been done to the community.  It's going to take a long time to build that back, but I'm glad to see that you're committed to it.

I guess now we'll see what happens....


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## opalance (Jul 26, 2007)

SDWolf said:
			
		

> a fair amount of damage has been done to the community.  It's going to take a long time to build that back, but I'm glad to see that you're committed to it.



Hah. Well, not so much as you would think. The only reason I even knew anything about any of this is because I was on at like 1am and saw the little white screen and the message up there. Before that I didn't know the first thing about who ran and owned what and had never even gone to the forums before. And it's not for me being an outsider or anything, I've been on here for a few months and been in the fandom to some degree for a few years. Most of the community I'm assuming is like me and just doesn't want a part of any drama or quarrels or whatever. I'm learning to just ignore all that and keep doing what I do, because unless I'm in the middle of it, I can't really do anything about it.


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## Muse (Jul 26, 2007)

opalance said:
			
		

> ...because unless I'm in the middle of it, I can't really do anything about it.



Awww....  C'mon!  You could bitch and moan and spout your opinion like you've got incurable verbal (textual?) diarrhea, if you _really _wanted to.  If everyone else can do it, I bet you could to!

Give a try, maybe?  A bit of an opinion here, a few words or 'wisdom' there, and before you know it, you'll be a lean, mean whining machine!  It's great fun (I hear) and with a bit of practice you can seem important and pretentious just like anyone else!  

Ahem...  Uhhh...  Anyway, good luck Preyfar, hope things work out okay.  It'd be a sad day if I couldn't spend a few minutes a day on FA reading the forums (sinbce I barely check thar art anymore these days) - I'd have to find somewhere else to amuse myself on coffee breaks and for a short time after work.  

(Although that 'few minutes' seems to be growing, too - I wonder if the fandom is addictive?  Hmmm....)


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## Swampwulf (Jul 26, 2007)

Well, this all answers my question from a week or two ago about who owns the site and got a polite brush off instead of a solid answer.
Best of luck untangling things guys.
(Good thing that new server got bought *before* this came up and the money put aside for it wasn't in the general funds, eh? I'm assuming that that purchase was done under Preyfar/Dragoneer's name?)


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## Lt_Havoc (Jul 26, 2007)

I still think, its neccesary to lend FA over to more competent Hands. I think its time for a change in the administration. I think this man will be better suited for FA:









Well, so much to that.


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## Wesha (Jul 26, 2007)

Lt.Havoc said:
			
		

> I think this man will be better suited for FA


But he's dead! You propose an OMFG ZOMBIE to run FA?


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## Lt_Havoc (Jul 26, 2007)

Wesha said:
			
		

> Lt.Havoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, we jusat clone him from his DNA, makes things easier, all that Voodo Stuff to get him back to live is just too complicated.

Well, seriously, that whole "I sell the Domain name or else!" thing is just totally silly, ecpseically wehn you think about that fact that you wont get 7000 bucks for this domain name. 19,90 $ for the FA domain, that sounds like a offer at Wal Mart or Aldi, I even could buy the domain name and all, without worries. 

This whole power play thing is just fucked up, I would give Jehryn the boot and tell him to get lost, hell I would have rplaced the whole admin and moderatoship by now, so he cant do any more damage. Ya know that this site had similar problems in the past. Is there always somone who thinks he can  just play the asshole and get through with it? 

All this hassel just for a danm domain name, go figure. What are we here, a Kindergarden or what?


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 26, 2007)

There was an interesting question and answer session on the IRC yesterday. Either way they want Jheryn/Alkora/ByakkoWolf out.


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## TheGru (Jul 26, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> In addition, one of my greater fears is if FA fell into the wrong hands. Somebody who didn't care. Somebody who just wanted profit, not to build the community, not out of love, but money.
> 
> I've watched so many places fall when the primary objective of money became the focus. I've seen other sites get eaten up, becoming nothing more than shells for product placement and revenue, putting the product first, community second. I've watched them wither and die slowly, and that's the last thing I wanted to see happen to FA.
> 
> That was my first fear and worry, and one of the reasons I panicked. I didn't want to see investments and dedication of myself, Yak, Crypto and the others go to waste to some person who's primary interest is the god Profit.



Money breeds evil into many a man, and the god Profit is a powerful one, but perhaps community can prevail over such...

We shall see...


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## themocaw (Jul 26, 2007)

I think we should have bought the NewFurAffinity.org/com/net/whatever domain instead and told him to go fornicate with his own rectal opening, but that's just me.


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## Neofur (Jul 26, 2007)

Cloning experiments never turn out as well as you think.
Aways get a dang Bizarro.


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## opalance (Jul 26, 2007)

Muse said:
			
		

> opalance said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh that's ok, unless someone actually asks for the advice or is actually in a position where they really actually need some and they know it and I can offer something decent to them, I just don't bother anymore. Which is also why I don't bother with politics and such.


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## nevar (Jul 26, 2007)

I just heard about the issues from my mate, and instead of reading tons of post and trying to decipher the truth, or who's right and who's wrong, I'm going to try to offer another route.  I would like to try to offer as a moderator, to sit down with everyone that's has a stake in this and to try to help everyone work through things.  I hate to see anything happen to this site or to anyone's hard work.  My background is actually in management, but I'm good at finding middle ground with different groups.  If anyone would like to talk, or you'd like to take me up on the offer, please feel free to email me at nevar.felrnn@gmail.com.  I hope everything goes well.

~Nevar


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## Janglur (Jul 26, 2007)

TheGru said:
			
		

> Money breeds evil into many a man, and the god Profit is a powerful one, but perhaps community can prevail over such...
> 
> We shall see...




Pfah!  Entire countries have sold their peoples' souls for money.  Do you really think humanity has any desire except material wealth and it's mutual self-destruction?


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## Rhainor (Jul 26, 2007)

nevar said:
			
		

> I would like to try to offer as a moderator, to sit down with everyone that's has a stake in this and to try to help everyone work through things.



I believe the term you're looking for is "mediator", not "moderator".


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## TheGru (Jul 26, 2007)

Janglur said:
			
		

> Pfah!  Entire countries have sold their peoples' souls for money.  Do you really think humanity has any desire except material wealth and it's mutual self-destruction?



Not really, seeing as the human being is a savage sinfull beast, but there are some who work, and would rather see the greater good served, such events are rare, but they have happened.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 27, 2007)

I still want to know how the 10k number came about. I mean what made Jheryn think it was that much?


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## TehSean (Jul 27, 2007)

Squnq believes that if FA sold space for ad traffic, that it could pay off the original cost in just over a year before beginning to generate profit that could be spent on continuously updating the hardware without having to so heavily rely on donations.

While *I* don't think that's wholly feasible, I definitely don't doubt that FA could generate a lot of money through ad banners put on the top and bottom of each page. They could easily be arranged so that when you scroll down to view content, they would be put out of view.

I don't mind either way. I don't really have interest in supporting the site monetarily because I never could agree with the way the site was run.

Especially the admin/mod cronyism. (Cronyism is partiality to long-standing friends, especially by appointing them to positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications. Hence, cronyism is contrary in practice and principle to meritocracy. -wikipedia)

Especially how they would treat users based on their relationships with others. If you were friends with someone who the admin didn't like, you were immediately suspect by proxy...

Anyway.

I would suggest selling adspace! If you're so against it, then keep on shelling out thousands of dollars, but what's going to happen to the site when you eventually leave it? Are you going to stop funding it when you leave it?  It's is a big 'what-if' that seems very likely these days. If you are the big crutch holding FA afloat, then maybe ad money could serve to be a back-up plan that would not only allow you a guilt-free choice to leave FA at any time you wished, but ease your own wallet as well and not have the embarrassment of having to depend constantly on the hard work of others.

I'm rambling at this point, but what I'm suggesting ultimately is that you are bringing this trouble on yourself while you have options at your disposal to ease your pains.


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## Rhainor (Jul 27, 2007)

TehSean said:
			
		

> Squnq believes that if FA sold space for ad traffic, that it could pay off the original cost in just over a year before beginning to generate profit that could be spent on continuously updating the hardware without having to so heavily rely on donations.
> ...



Ads = bad.


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## SkieFire (Jul 28, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> My best friend (and roommate) is moving out, meaning I'm going to be alone in a strange, foreign country with no friends.



As long as you've got a net connection, you ain't alone


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## TehSean (Jul 28, 2007)

[/quote]

Ads = bad.
[/quote]

Bad for you perhaps, but you don't have to pay for the site upkeep, do you?
Selfish.


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## PunkTiger (Jul 28, 2007)

TehSean said:
			
		

> ...I don't really have interest in supporting the site monetarily because I never could agree with the way the site was run.





			
				TehSean said:
			
		

> Rhainor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And neither do you, apparently.

I've donated my dollars and put my support in FA because I _have_ seen other sites and communities fall apart and lose focus through a lack of support. At the very least, I've helped pay for the very servers FA is running on today... both of them.

I can only hazard a guess about how much money Preyfar puts into FA on a monthly basis to keep it running (I'm thinking something equivalent to a monthly house mortgage payment with the amount of bandwidth it must use), but I'm positive without the donations he gets, FA would either have ads plastered all over it, or it would have folded long ago.

I'm done pontificating. My apologies, but that just touched a little nerve in me.


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## net-cat (Jul 28, 2007)

Well, this thread explains quite a bit. It's good to know that, drama and shenanigans aside, at the end of the day, the site will still be here. (And thanks to all involved for maintaining it. *is learning Python so he can help with Ferrox*)

As for ads, it could work if done correctly. Unfortunately, that basically means running them yourself. "Good" ad services like Google tend to ban adult sites, (You could work around that with an if statement, but that would defeat the purpose.) Most ad services that allow adult sites tend to make it a point to serve pop-ups and those noisy, blinky flash ads regardless of whether or not it's in your contract. (It's the extreme prevalence of such ads that caused me to start using Adblock, actually.)


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## Bokracroc (Jul 28, 2007)

Ads = bad.
[/quote]

Bad for you perhaps, but you don't have to pay for the site upkeep, do you?
Selfish.
[/quote]

It's because a Google Ad at the bottom of the page is the bane of all things evil.


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## yak (Jul 28, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> It's because a Google Ad at the bottom of the page is the bane of all things evil.


Because google ads, pretty much like all other non-obtrusive ads, are not allowed on adult sites.


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## TehSean (Jul 28, 2007)

DeviantArt hosts a number of adverts. They aren't blinky, flashy, whatever. They host adult material. Is FA too small to be recognized by any sort of commercial interest?

And I've also given my reason for not giving money to the site. I don't donate money to any political parties I disagree with (I don't donate any money to them), but I do donate money to the Red Cross.

FA isn't high on the list, and there are alternative sites to use such as FAP, old VCL, and some sites started up by more esoteric artists like Tengu and/or Jill0r that've been on FA that I can't remember the names of.

Ok, Punktiger. Great. You've donated money before, perhaps even on a monthly basis, but the fact of the matter APPEARS to be that if Preyfar ever decided to leave FA, it would go down for an indefinite period of time.

I don't mean to offend anyone that donates, but it seems somewhat clear to me that it's not enough if you were ever to remove Preyfar from the equation.  How much MORE money would you be willing to donate, then?

*My point was that donations by themselves are not going to support the site.* There will not be enough cash generated to support steadily rising costs of bandwidth. We could downgrade the bandwidth, but with FA's history of being targeted by trolls, it'll simply make it more viable to be DOS'd into unusability. That's just a guess. 
That's just a guess since I recall the site's security being wholly compromised and volumes of passwords being revealed amongst numerous exploits cropping up in userpage customization that was later gutted because it became unmanageable; Search was removed because it consumed too much bandwidth as well, by the way. It's just a guess that the same people would be more than ready and able to "have more fun" when the opportunity arises.

Anyway, we can guess by what Preyfar keeps saying(which he says he can prove.. and I believe what he says is true) that he is providing the vast majority of money that FA depends on to run.


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## Bokracroc (Jul 28, 2007)

Shush you.
I want to see how long they can mooch off of the community and see how deep Preyfar's pocket goes.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 28, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Shush you.
> I want to see how long they can mooch off of the community and see how deep Preyfar's pocket goes.


Let's not and say we did!


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 28, 2007)

Bad use of Quotations = bad

I'm not against ads, though advertising is getting more difficult as people switch over to browsers with ad block. I might shoot some proposals over to Dragoneer as to what to try to gain some money, even if its small.


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## TheGru (Jul 28, 2007)

I don't see how selling addspace would help much, not for the fact of selling it mind you, but for the fact FA only has around 40,000 accounts (mind you banned accounts and inactive ones are still in this equasion.) You'd have to find a company who woud generally thinks that they have something to sell that furries would want, and I'm not too sure many would.

Call me a skeptic, but I don't see who'd want to buy the addspace.


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## Rhainor (Jul 28, 2007)

PunkTiger said:
			
		

> I can only hazard a guess about how much money Preyfar puts into FA on a monthly basis to keep it running (I'm thinking something equivalent to a monthly house mortgage payment with the amount of bandwidth it must use), but I'm positive without the donations he gets, FA would either have ads plastered all over it, or it would have folded long ago.



He said not too long ago it costs something like $800/month to keep FA up and running, and that'll increase to $1,000/month by the end of the year.


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## CyberFoxx (Jul 28, 2007)

I can't see how using ads would work in the first place, there's reasons why companies have tried to sue the Mozilla team, the AdBlock team, etc, etc.


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## brokenfox (Jul 28, 2007)

I was going to create a new thread for a suggestion of helping to raise money, but it might make more sense to just post a comment here since were all talking about raising money for the site (if this is too far off topic feel free to move it :/). I was thinking that FA could help support itself by artists donating art to be auctioned off and the money made could go to FA. Just yesterday with this thought fresh in my head an artist that I am watching just announced that they are going to do something similar to what I was thinking. They will be creating sketches and selling them at a discounted rate, all money made would go towards FA. In there journal other artists posted that they liked the idea and may be doing the same thing in the near future. 

Besides inspiring artists to this idea I'm not sure how it could be organized...maybe a section of the forums could be created where artists post up art that is being donated for FA? But if you guy's (especially the artists and admins) think that this is a good idea then I am sure we could pull our collective minds together and make an easy way to set this up.

With this type of fund raising the artists can help support a site that supports them, those that bid can support a site that allows them to freely view that art (and if they win they get art ) and FA gets support from both the artists and non-artists alike.

I hope you guys like this idea. =^.^=


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## Wesha (Jul 28, 2007)

As we discussed with Codewolf, ads are soooo XX century, and in fact are rather to repel the audience instead of attracting it. My personal bet is on bundled services. Like, remember the DA's "I want a high-quality print of this!" button?


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## TehSean (Jul 28, 2007)

DA didn't vanish and still hosts a vast number of users. FA's done FAR WORSE than host advertisements in its long and controversial history such as go offline for months at a time because it couldn't afford its cost of server upkeep. People remained with FA.

Passwords that people were probably using for everything internet-related were revealed. FA didn't go under. FA validated Cub Porn. That was one of the only times FA has had a mass exodus and it's still a popular website.

I don't think you've been with FA long enough to realize all the BS that people have put up with. Since its inception, FA's traffic has only ever increased so long as it remained online.


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## DarkMeW (Jul 29, 2007)

TehSean said:
			
		

> I don't think you've been with FA long enough to realize all the BS that people have put up with. Since its inception, FA's traffic has only ever increased so long as it remained online.



I think most people don't take into account the simplest of concepts when it comes to sites like FA. It's free, and when ever you have a free service people are going to use it. If it's good a lot more people are going to use it over time. Enough said.


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## Raving_Dragon (Jul 29, 2007)

I am wondering if people can use www.furaffinity.info as a temporary link for now until the servers get hooked back up. The link does work but I don't know if we can post anything.


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## chicago-lollie (Jul 29, 2007)

TehSean said:
			
		

> DeviantArt hosts a number of adverts. They aren't blinky, flashy, whatever. They host adult material.


Just a side note here.

"Adult material" is generally regarded as pornography.

From the Mature Content section of deviantART's Etiquette Policy:


> DeviantART *strictly prohibits* the submission of materials classified as pornographic or obscene. There is no exception to this prohibition.



This explains why deviantART is actually able to have the kind of advertising that they have. Because, as yak stated before:


			
				yak said:
			
		

> Because google ads, pretty much like all other non-obtrusive ads, are not allowed on adult sites.



So unless if you're suggesting that FA allows pop-up/under ads and banner ads for BETSY'S BARNYARN *BAN*VENTURES, it's a pretty open-close case here. Even if they _did_ want to allow that kind of advertising, they wouldn't be able to, as simple non-flashy adverts just don't like sites with adult material.


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## Rhainor (Jul 29, 2007)

Raving_Dragon said:
			
		

> I am wondering if people can use www.furaffinity.info as a temporary link for now until the servers get hooked back up. The link does work but I don't know if we can post anything.



Yep, same site, fully functional*, just a temporarily different URL.



* _Supposedly there's some feature or two that's not working for now, but I haven't found it yet.  The submission and journal systems are fully functional._


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## Epsereth (Jul 30, 2007)

Would it be possible to host ad space in only the forums, perhaps? That way the site could get the ad revenue it needed, without the enormous balking that is inevitable should the ads be placed on the art gallery site itself.


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## TheGru (Jul 30, 2007)

Epsereth said:
			
		

> Would it be possible to host ad space in only the forums, perhaps? That way the site could get the ad revenue it needed, without the enormous balking that is inevitable should the ads be placed on the art gallery site itself.



Ah then the problem I pointed out earlier magnifies, more specificly the lack of audiance, as about 1/10 of FA members actually bother with the forums,so the adspace would pretty much be wasted space.


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## gliengul (Jul 30, 2007)

chicago-lollie said:
			
		

> So unless if you're suggesting that FA allows pop-up/under ads and banner ads for BETSY'S BARNYARN *BAN*VENTURES, it's a pretty open-close case here. Even if they _did_ want to allow that kind of advertising, they wouldn't be able to, as simple non-flashy adverts just don't like sites with adult material.



Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the entity selling ad space determine what is and is not allowed to be presented in said space?


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## Neofur (Jul 31, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> I still want to know how the 10k number came about. I mean what made Jheryn think it was that much?



Hmm...Maybe seeing something on a domain value site like this.
I've seen from $19.00-$150.00 now found a $29.430.00 WTF!  :shock:


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## Maverynthia (Jul 31, 2007)

What about selling Furaffinity gear? Is selling articles of clothing and trinket worthwhile?
(I don't like the ad option either, even then I have adblock)


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## Damaratus (Jul 31, 2007)

Maverynthia said:
			
		

> What about selling Furaffinity gear? Is selling articles of clothing and trinket worthwhile?
> (I don't like the ad option either, even then I have adblock)



There are t-shirts in the works actually, but it does take some money to get that kind of thing started up, especially if you want to give your users something better than Cafe Press.


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## Bridgeport Cat (Jul 31, 2007)

If you guys were to offer custom prints ala DA, I would absolutely buy them/offer them for my art. It would be great for people doing digital commissions who want to offer something tactile to the customer instead of just a high quality png, you know?

And there's some stuff on here I absolutely want a print of.


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## chicago-lollie (Aug 1, 2007)

gliengul said:
			
		

> chicago-lollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, _but_. Because FA hosts adult material, it means that the choices for what can be advertised are limited, and the conditions for how they can be advertised are restricted right down. That's what I'm saying, and kinda what Yak said before.

The simple ads, the ones that don't get in the way, generally don't go anywhere near sites with adult content. Which leaves FA with pop ups and yaddayaddayadda I'm repeating myself anyway, seriously. :0 tl;don't wanna type anymore.


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