# fallout 3 out today yay



## Maio Maio Tigerman (Oct 30, 2008)

ill have to go out today and get fallout 3 its finally out yay :-D. shame i dont have a tail yet (or the paws i have ordered) as that would be fun.


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## CerberusWhitefur (Oct 30, 2008)

Maio Maio Tigerman said:


> ill have to go out today and get fallout 3 its finally out yay :-D. shame i dont have a tail yet (or the paws i have ordered) as that would be fun.



And I heard it's awsome.. It's Oblivion with guns, but still. Pure greatness.


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## Teco (Oct 30, 2008)

I already got it on the release date here, the 28th, oh its fun <3


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## Teco (Oct 30, 2008)

CerberusWhitefur said:


> And I heard it's awsome.. It's Oblivion with guns, but still. Pure greatness.



Also, no no no, not Oblivion with guns. Its Fallout with the perfect developer to carry out its continuation.


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## Xipoid (Oct 30, 2008)

For a moment, I lived my dream. What a wonderful game.


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## CerberusWhitefur (Oct 30, 2008)

Teco said:


> Also, no no no, not Oblivion with guns. Its Fallout with the perfect developer to carry out its continuation.



Don't misunderstand me, it's great. But! Let me quote the creator of Ctrl+Alt+Del:

"Let me just get this out of the way, it's nearly impossible to not see Oblivion in this game. It's the same engine, and it shows. If there are flaws with Oblivion that bugged you (NPCs acting odd, scripted and bizarre physics mishaps), you may see them here, to a lesser extent. But it's also not that hard to _forget_ that it's the same engine for most of the game, as it is wrapped so well in a very authentic Fallout skin."


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## Eevee (Oct 30, 2008)

CerberusWhitefur said:


> And I heard it's awsome.. It's Oblivion with guns, but still. Pure greatness.


yeah, and Guitar Hero is Tetris with guitars (and less blocks)



CerberusWhitefur said:


> But! Let me quote the creator of Ctrl+Alt+Del:


please don't; that man has never written a word worth reading

hurkadur engine == game!!  half-life is just quake with physicists


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## CerberusWhitefur (Oct 30, 2008)

Eevee said:


> please don't; that man has never written a word worth reading



Well, that's not very nice, I like his comic  And by the way, what he writes here is true, I just can't draft it in english as well as he do =3


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## Teco (Oct 31, 2008)

Well to quote someone who's played the game for a good couple of hours... Also, no no no, not Oblivion with guns. ^^; *punched* 
I found the fatman. I lawl with power!


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## Eevee (Oct 31, 2008)

CerberusWhitefur said:


> Well, that's not very nice, I like his comic


argh his comic is a vain attempt at comedy squashed under a thick slathering of destructive explanation and gratuitous reaffirmation that he is astoundingly pompous about his self-aggrandized status as Some Guy Who Plays Vidya Games

lol wacky random dumb guy likes games and goes on crazy adventures about how important gamers are!!!

it is so trite and bland it makes me angry



CerberusWhitefur said:


> And by the way, what he writes here is true, I just can't draft it in english as well as he do =3


but what he's saying has nothing to do with "oblivion with guns".  the quirks of the engine don't make me feel like I'm playing Oblivion any more than crouch-jumping in Portal: Prelude makes me feel like I'm playing Half-Life 2 (but with portals!).  in fact the _only thing_ I have heard so far that gives this mantra any credit whatsoever is that NPCs' movement is a bit stilted.  I fail to see how this inherently makes the games comparable.

the engine is, if anything, an _obstacle_ between you and a game: it is one of the two sources of limitations on game functionality.  the engine being _obvious_ does not make two games similar.  quake 4 was not doom 3, even though the way the surfaces shine is a constant reminder that you are playing on id tech 4.


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## Kyoujin (Oct 31, 2008)

Got the Collector's Edition at midnight when it came out. I love it. ;x Amazing game. There's only a few things I think I'd change, like.. being able to buy a house as well as being able to earn it, instead of just having to earn it. I really wanted a place in Tenpenny Tower, but since I disarmed the bomb.. I got stuck elsewhere, but ah well. Not like it really matters. xD

And yeah, it's not like Oblivion, really. I mean, yeah in ways I feel like it is sometimes, mostly just with some of the ragdoll physics, but that's about it. It's a damn good game, whether you feel like it's Oblivion or not.


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## Zpyder (Nov 4, 2008)

I just got the game a couple days ago and I can't believe how incredible it is! I've never played any of the other Fallout games however though I don't think it hinders the development of the plot which is very gruesomely detailed. I however do think it plays a lot like the Elderscroll series and it even has the same type of bugs like object collision errors, weird lighting engine graphic problems (has that happened to anyone yet? When I was playing different planes in game bursted in odd yellow and purple colors and depending on my position it changed a lot) , and the fact that the character animations are sort of poorly done. Other then that, seems to be really great!


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## Teco (Nov 4, 2008)

Zpyder said:


> I just got the game a couple days ago and I can't believe how incredible it is! I've never played any of the other Fallout games however though I don't think it hinders the development of the plot which is very gruesomely detailed. I however do think it plays a lot like the Elderscroll series and it even has the same type of bugs like object collision errors, weird lighting engine graphic problems (has that happened to anyone yet? When I was playing different planes in game bursted in odd yellow and purple colors and depending on my position it changed a lot) , and the fact that the character animations are sort of poorly done. Other then that, seems to be really great!



I havent gotten any lighting problems or any of the stated for the matter, yet, although I do know there should be, its a massive playing world, The one thing that seemed to be fixed in Oblivion was getting stuck, in this, I've gotten stuck between fences and gorebags once or twice and had to reload, but that wasnt tooooo much of a problem, although in worst case I can see it being a big problem. Animation are indeed shotty...maybe they'll improve in Fallout4, if that happens, it probably should, I'd get it.


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

Teco said:


> Also, no no no, not Oblivion with guns. Its Fallout with the perfect developer to carry out its continuation.



Can't tell if serious. :\

The game is fun enough, and I probably like it more than Oblivion because I like some of the art design and main quest level design choices (okay, so I'm a post-apoc-fag, I can't help it; plus I like the robots c.

...but it's still a whole lot of nothing, with really bad AI. And it really is Oblivion with Guns, srsly. :c
(I guess I should clarify this statement, because I know people be hatin' on it now.)
It's Oblivion with Guns because:
Hand-holding (click a note, unclick - you found the prize, map markers leading you everywhere, invulnerable mission NPCs)
Leveling system that results in every raider carrying a high powered machine gun by about level 9, and by level 20 they all have perfect condition armor and weapons and can take a blow to the face without being crippled (in many places)
Super Mutants, Super Mutant Brutes, Super Mutant Masters (Skeleton, Skeleton Hero, Skeleton Guardian) which appear at level-appropriate times (most every enemy has a levelled-up version)
Outfits are enchanted (sigh) 
Lockpicking is a mini-game 
Hacking is a mini-game
Weapons degrade (less of a serious concern, just for comparison's sake)
You can call someone a shit-eating cunt, and then say you're their friend, and usually they'll be agreeable
You can play every role at once if you've got a nice coat
Compass letting you know where everything is
You can be a vampire, DURRR

How it is not like Oblivion:
Actual conversation trees (including unusual traits unlocking dialogue, and SPECIAL standings)
Animation isn't nearly as bad as in Oblivion, and at times seems decent (the vertibirds are pretty well animated)
VATS (although, usefulness is arguable)
Ranged weaponry has random accuracy
To access minigames you have to have skills at a certain level (Very Easy <25, Easy 25, Average 50, etc.)
Save for NPCs central to the main quest and children - you can kill most named NPCs.

It strikes me more as a mod than a separate game. I'm probably just a jaded asshole.

I also wished they would've had the Fallout 2 thing where if you had an intelligence of less than 3, your character was actually retarded; to the point where all you could say to most things was "UNKH?"

It seems like Megaton is the deepest part of the game, and everything hits the shitter pretty much immediately afterwards.

Third run-through. I'm going through as a black guy with mutton chops (Butcher Pete), everytime the song Butcher Pete comes on I have to stop and kill everything around me with a knife. You get a real sense of how bad the AI is by doing this. You should try it anyways, it's pretty fun.

GARY GARY GAR-EEE HAW HAW HAW (this game actually kind of blows :c)

Also, I absolutely hate the super mutants in this game. What happened to the pulp-y comic look of the Hulk? Now they just look like a pile of steroids went ape-shit on a brick shithouse. This game has some serious troubles trying to find itself amongst "I'm STALKER - I'm what the apocalypse would look like, gritty realism :V" and "I'm Bioshock - I'm a ridiculous time-piece, but an artistic tour-de-force." 

Now that I'm railing on the game, its hard for me to find the off switch; but one more thing. Aside from the problems I had with their interpretation of "dark humor," there is one thing that was difficult to swallow. This game really tried to mesh near-post-apocalyptic drama with far-post-apocalyptic storylines. Am I the only one who was really bothered by things like the Keller family transcripts or the radio stations leading to drainage systems? Its like I was straddling two distinct character-worlds. I mean, its pretty heavily implied when you're strolling through a weirdly intact DC that it is, in fact, DC. It relies on your built-in knowledge. However, its been 200 years, I don't see it that important to care about the world past, but the world now. It seems a bit ironic considering where Fallout 2 went with its ending, and what Fallout 1 presented you in a game world.

Also, the ending, to be frank - is blowful and arbitrary. Especially if you're playing nice-nice.

PS: Did anyone take the chance and blow up the Sat-Com arrays? It's completely optional and I stumbled across it - just wondering if anyone else has picked that up yet (I haven't seen anyone mention it anywhere).


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## lilEmber (Nov 4, 2008)

I've been playing it now for almost 3 days straight. I can tell you it's not a FPS, it's not oblivion with guns, it's nothing like oblivion actually... 

It *is* fallout. Period.

This game is literally the best RPG I've played in a long damn time.
It's nothing like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. It's nothing like any other RPG I've played, I love it.

There is so much to do, it's so emersive, it's got every option and thing and choice that I would actually choose, it's like a game and I'm playing me in it, just in the future post apocalyptic me.

Anybody who says it's oblivion with guns either didn't play oblivion or hasn't actually played Fallout 3. Or doesn't know how to play a game...

Oh and the humor is fallout, you might want to play the other games because it is a M rated game and the dark humor is a part of it. I love it.


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## Tycho (Nov 4, 2008)

-_-

I just cannot bring myself to LIKE this game.


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> I've been playing it now for almost 3 days straight. I can tell you it's not a FPS, it's not oblivion with guns, it's nothing like oblivion actually...
> 
> It *is* fallout. Period.
> 
> ...



I've beaten it twice.
I've also visited every location on the map, and those not on the map.

No offense, but it's not:
a) an RPG (because your ability to shoot a gun can supercede your character's ability to shoot a gun, or hack, or lockpick, etc etc)
b) Fallout
c) if it were an RPG, it would, frankly, be a terrible one because you can go around blowing peoples heads off (oh noes, ur a bad guy) and give some beggar free water, and you turn into some kind of saint; and as a small guns expert I found it very simple to wield a clunky minigun, or a missile launcher, or a fat man, or that ridiculous MIRV [which is just about the most moronic thing I've ever seen]

To make a sweeping generalization like you did, anyone who considers this game to be a Fallout game clearly hasn't played the original Fallout games. I actually wish Bethesda would've just made their own art deco post-apocalyptic game and called it something else; I'd probably be inclined to be a lot kinder to it. I can't help it, I just get annoyed by this game trotting in and proudly taking every Fallout piece of interest and putting them all in DC and then trying to inform me that Fallout was a realistic world that I can believe in. There's this weird disconnect between modern fucked-up world and the occasional 20-50's retro "come-on-we're-throwing-you-a-bone-here" aesthetic.

Also, if you played STALKER, you'd learn that you playing you in the post-apocalyptic world would be dead or dying; not wielding a minigun with nary a worry (which you can do and shoot from the hip at long range regardless of your level of big guns ability - all it does is effect VATS, which really doesn't matter - since you can shoot from the freaking hip). ;-)

As for the dark humor, there's nothing I can say about that. I thought Fallout was genuinely clever and funny, and I find this to be unsubtle and pushy (it reminds me of the change in tone from Fallout to Fallout 2, its a bit offensive, it feels like they're talking down to me). That's just me, though.

Also, did anyone just blow off Tenpenny's face for his sweet suit? Because apparently, I'm the only one in the game that noticed his head flying off a tower into an empty desert. And apparently, his personal bodyguard just thinks that we have the same personal tailor...
...and that I changed when I was visiting him...into his suit.

Yeah, there are problems. :\


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## Teco (Nov 4, 2008)

I personally like the game, not perfect but what first attempt really is? I'd like to try and debate some points made, but I want to first state, they are true points, but...

Hand-holding - Well, in Fallout there were certain zones or areas you explore, and they were fairly small too so quests didnt need any map markers, they just need a description of the area you were to go in which ever zone. (East side- find a book - *hint* "I dropped it somewhere around here..." says NPC - click around till you find a book by a trashcan- return) But for this next gen version you've got a larger area and it would be pretty difficult to find things and places without the map marker.

Leveling system - Well I'd rather have a decent fight where if I do something stupid on Hard, I'd get screwed over or have to use up all my stimpacks than go in to find a bunch of radroaches that die with a single hit or a pack of raiders that cant take a teddy bear to the face.

Outfits are enchanted - well, not enchanted really. They just made some outfits do what outfits would do, if you ran around in heavy metal armor you arent going to have my agility than in some light clothing, they have attributes and a realistic effect on your character or simply a unique look.

Lockpicking/Hacking is a mini-game - Well yeah, and jus because you can only pick locks at 25,50,75,and 100 mean that the lock is generally more hard to crack, you shouldnt be able to picklock a safe with minor skill... you dont have to play those mini games, depending on your skill you can just force pick it, going back, since force picking is dependent on your lockpick skill, having certain locks being able to pick at those intervals means you have a small chance of force picking, an improvement from picklocking a door constantly only to find that you needed serious skills to do this and now the door is jammed and you wasted all that time clicking over and over to do this that you could have just done a fun mini game in the time that the previous would or tell you that you have no chance of cracking this safe, same goes to Hacking.

Weapons degrade - Well they do... you cant blame them for being realistic

You can call someone a shit-eating cunt, and then say you're their friend, and usually they'll be agreeable - well, being a grisly, harsh world, I suppose people have more on their minds than a potty mouth who's woken on the wrong side of the bed.. the side you were sharing with a nuked skeleton. I just told an NPC to, "Get that fucking gun out of my face." And in which case I was then shot in the head by said gun. Mayhap there's some personality in these NPCs which a sprinkle of people who like insults apparently.

You can play every role at once if you've got a nice coat- Where is said coat? I want a coat! Badass. *punched* I dont know how to counter this, since I've never seen such an outfit.

Compass letting you know where everything is. Again, big, 3D, 360 degree world. Not a 2D flat world, you'd want it if it wasnt there believe me.

Actual conversation trees - indeed, I hate where other RPGs dont do this, 'specially Mass Effect.

Animation isn't nearly as bad as in Oblivion, and at times seems decent (the vertibirds are pretty well animated) - Aye, they are pretty bad but its pretty minor.

VATS (although, usefulness is arguable) - Its pretty useful.

Ranged weaponry has random accuracy - Wouldnt be an RPG without it.

Save for NPCs central to the main quest and children, you can kill most named NPCs. - Its never fun to find out you killed someone you need hours ago to even advance in the main plot.

Just because they used features they've developed and used in their games doesnt make it just like that game, its pretty different... might as well say Fallout 1 and 2 were D&D with guns. The used their methods in this game because they work. This is again a first attempt, if they make another one they'll most likely have more methods developed to set it apart from other games.


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## lilEmber (Nov 4, 2008)

Right you've played for over 400 hours already... somehow I think you're lieing.

You actually don't know what a RPG is in that case, or a FPS, or fallout. Go back to playing past the beginning because there is no possible way you're 'beaten the game' once. What with there being over 200 hours of quests, just doing the main one isn't beating the game.

And no, it *is* fallout. It *isn't* oblivion. It *is* a RPG.

You might want to actually pull your head out of your ass, play the original games, and stop thinking that because it's now 3d it's no longer fallout. Seriously I've had enough of you close minded gamers who well, aren't gamers. You just want things to go back to the old days of only 2d and turn based systems.

Seems like *every single review* I've watched on any gaming site, magazine, or friend of mine has said the opposite of what you're saying... wonder who I will believe...


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

Teco said:


> Leveling system - Well I'd rather have a decent fight where if I do something stupid on Hard, I'd get screwed over or have to use up all my stimpacks than go in to find a bunch of radroaches that die with a single hit or a pack of raiders that cant take a teddy bear to the face.


Uhh. I'm referring to how by the end of the game everyone has kick ass stuff, and they really shouldn't. I guess the way it worked in the old games was you didn't head northwest. If you did - expect a super mutant patrol - which would kick your ass unless you were at a high level. Go mid-south and east, and you can expect raiders near small towns - this made sense, and it didn't change. Made the world seem more worldly. Not just a random - holy shit - suddenly everyone's head has titanium plating because you solved the NukaCola run Super Mutants didn't suddenly appear by small towns just for the hell of it. Nevertheless, I'm finding Super Mutants at Radio Stations not far from Megaton at Level 20. This doesn't make any sense to me?

You'll find a few awesome guns lying around at the beginning. If you have a high enough repair skill you can buff the hell out of hunting rifles and the like. However, you can't find anyone with a decent weapon save for totally random encounters outside of that. I guess I would've liked to wear my first power armor set, and go out to find a den of gatling laser wielding super muties and fight my way through them to get something good.

However, you'll get that one awesome gun, and you're just awesome until you level up and another gun shows up - you fix that and you're awesome for a while. This continues for the whole game. It's monotonous to me, but maybe not to you. This just reminds me of IRON IRON IRON STEEL FINE STEEL SILVER GLASS, ETC. In older games, they presented the choice and you were likely to get your ass kicked. In FO3 they appear scared to offer you that choice because you might get frustrated or realize that you're sad or something. I like the option to deal with an incredibly difficult firefight for a nice bonus. Not the same firefight for an above average bonus (which doesn't surpass one of the awesome guns I found earlier - *cough* Museum of History *cough*).


Teco said:


> Outfits are enchanted - well, not enchanted really. They just made some outfits do what outfits would do, if you ran around in heavy metal armor you arent going to have my agility than in some light clothing, they have attributes and a realistic effect on your character or simply a unique look.



I wasn't aware that if I wore a doctor's smock I found in a dumpster could actually allow me to heal myself 5% better with a medkit. The power armor makes sense. Wearing a stylish hat _should_ make me able to shoot lasers from 10 yards further away, but it doesn't (this is partly why I hate the gritty realism/fantasy world thing that's going on). That's an enchantment. Just you wait and see, after dog armor, we'll be getting an armory lab. ;-)


Teco said:


> Lockpicking/Hacking is a mini-game - Well yeah, and jus because you can only pick locks at 25,50,75,and 100 mean that the lock is generally more hard to crack, you shouldnt be able to picklock a safe with minor skill... you dont have to play those mini games, depending on your skill you can just force pick it, going back, since force picking is dependent on your lockpick skill, having certain locks being able to pick at those intervals means you have a small chance of force picking, an improvement from picklocking a door constantly only to find that you needed serious skills to do this and now the door is jammed and you wasted all that time clicking over and over to do this that you could have just done a fun mini game in the time that the previous would or tell you that you have no chance of cracking this safe, same goes to Hacking.



The whole force picking thing doesn't work quite how it should, though. I mean, the force-lock fail is that you can't open it without a key, same with hacking (hacking, okay; but seriously, I wasn't aware that keys could dislodge metal chunks from a lock - I have tweezers, can't I just use those?). Which really gears you towards playing the mini-game and not leaving it to chance unless you have to. In which case you're punished - it's pushing you into the minigames. 100 lockpick skill can only force a very hard lock at 15% chance. That's a little nutty. In Fallout, it was possible that you could not pick the damn lock after trying, and come back when you're better at lock picking to get it open. This seems logical. Arbitrary "oops, you no good at wiggle-stick, thus you have to go find the key we hid, hur hur hur - your skill isn't a skill unless you, the player, are good at it" is very non-RPG, and pretty damn annoying.


Teco said:


> Weapons degrade - Well they do... you cant blame them for being realistic



Yes, actually, I can. I won't, though. That's just something Oblivion started, and they didn't feel like removing. Something strictly Oblivion, something very not Fallout, where your weapon was a very cherished thing. The sheer abundance of fire power is a little weird in a world where guns haven't actually been manufactured for 200 years, amidst a distanced war, after a nuclear holocaust. Finding a single minigun, or assembling that Power Armor in the Brotherhood base was a godsend in FO. In FO3, on the other hand, miniguns seem to litter the wastelands, and I suspect that the reason the Brotherhood is functioning the way it is in the game is because they didn't want to retool the weapon set up. Okay, so maybe I kind of blamed them.


Teco said:


> You can call someone a shit-eating cunt, and then say you're their friend, and usually they'll be agreeable - well, being a grisly, harsh world, I suppose people have more on their minds than a potty mouth who's woken on the wrong side of the bed.. the side you were sharing with a nuked skeleton. I just told an NPC to, "Get that fucking gun out of my face." And in which case I was then shot in the head by said gun. Mayhap there's some personality in these NPCs which a sprinkle of people who like insults apparently.



Ehhh. Normally, I wouldn't mind it - but all I was saying is that like all of these other points - this is just a way in which the game is like Oblivion. There are moments in Fallout that you can do the same thing. I'm not sure which moment you're referring to - I'm assuming its in Megaton, though. It does tend to drop off, and that's part of why it gets so weird after a point (I was incredibly optimistic at the beginning). I told Roy that I hated Ghouls, and then I was the savior of Ghouls, then I told him I hated him again - and now he calls me "buddy." I'd expect him to at least hate me after I did the mission for him. He can't possibly get anything from me. There is also something really disturbing about running into a town killing the beloved patriarchs of each and every family, leaving said town for a location about 2 minutes away, sleeping for three days, and coming back to find that everyone was waiting to give you a big kiss and missed you so much.


Teco said:


> You can play every role at once if you've got a nice coat- Where is said coat? I want a coat! Badass. *punched* I dont know how to counter this, since I've never seen such an outfit.


There are a lot of them. I've got most of the unique ones. I don't know how far in your are, so I'll try not to spoil it. There are some pretty game breaking items out there. IE: things that make enemies love you no matter what, or coats that significantly increase your ability to shoot a gun, sneak, use energy weapons, etc. I've got a hat that puts my perception up one point, and my sneak up 10. That increases my small guns, explosives, energy weapons; and then I have a coat that pushes energy and small guns up by 15 each. I'm a speech character and I have a a tagged+ setting for energy, small, and sneak. Not to mention the fact that you collect bobblehead dolls that put your points up in SPECIAL by one each, and each skill by ten. There are similar items for melee, unarmed, speech, medicine (pre-mentioned smock being one of them), lockpick, all weaponry, and barter. Since clothes tend to weigh between 5-10 pounds, you can stock up on them (and ammo doesn't weigh anything).

Who do you want to be today?
Fallout 3:
_We've got a hat for that._


Teco said:


> Compass letting you know where everything is. Again, big, 3D, 360 degree world. Not a 2D flat world, you'd want it if it wasnt there believe me.


Maybe. It kind of pushes the idea of exploring the wasteland away from exploring to finding destinations to hop to-and-fro to kill they ass.


Teco said:


> VATS (although, usefulness is arguable) - Its pretty useful.


It can be. If you're not a PC FPSer. I am. It isn't useful unless you're being swarmed. The headshots are harder with mutants, the fucking nippleheads, but beefy legs being shot stops them pretty much instantly, giving you about 3 seconds to kill they ass. There's also aim assistance, I notice. I clearly missed some mutant's gun, but the game felt bad for me - and blew it right out of his hands.


Teco said:


> Ranged weaponry has random accuracy - Wouldnt be an RPG without it.


I did like this, and it takes it closer. Still, the accuracy is pretty tight in comparison to something like Deus Ex which I consider an acceptable bridge between FPS/RPG. With a 30 small guns, I've blown somebody's head off with the hunting rifle from what was probably about a minute run away.



Teco said:


> Save for NPCs central to the main quest and children, you can kill most named NPCs. - Its never fun to find out you killed someone you need hours ago to even advance in the main plot.



I wasn't really holding that against it. That's just an Oblivion mechanic, not a Fallout one. Fallout made everybody important and immersive by making them killable. You weren't inclined to play it like GTA, and go around on a rampage because you might really fuck up your chances. To me, that made the game more believable. To be fair, though, when I played through Morrowwind once, I accidentally killed some guy in a tomb, wherein the game told me "YOU LOSE," and that was pretty surreal and, I'll admit, pretty damn annoying (but I don't think anyone can deny that level design was never BethSoft's strong suit [this is the first game they hired a level design team for]). I guess with Fallout the battles tended to be a strain after a point - so much so that you didn't yearn for combat unless you were a combat heavy character, and undoubtedly some asshole hidden behind a wall was armed to the teeth, you can't take everything in. I guess it made it the wasteland and its sense of suspense and civilization that much more realistic to me.


Teco said:


> Just because they used features they've developed and used in their games doesnt make it just like that game, its pretty different... might as well say Fallout 1 and 2 were D&D with guns. The used their methods in this game because they work. This is again a first attempt, if they make another one they'll most likely have more methods developed to set it apart from other games.


Ehhhhhh. Look, I hate to be an NMAfag, and in the past I've been very defensive of this game. The game is incredibly similar. I'm not saying that makes it terrible, but its hard to deny that's not what it is. I hear a lot of people saying its not that, but it is - with a few exceptions. 

I don't reward mediocre first attempts. I know, call me an asshole, but I don't think that a game developer with more money than God and the entire console market in its back pocket really needs a knight in shining armor. The game is alright, and it can be fun mapping out all the inconsequential stuff. It's just not...great, I guess.

It would be like if someone took your favorite movie and rendered into a still life with different actors. You'd be a little baffled, and wonder why they didn't create their own subject to work off of; and I guess that's how I feel. This isn't really Fallout, and it feels closer to Bethesda. Which is fine, I guess, but I'm more inclined to spot an Oblivion than a Fallout in Fallout 3. It doesn't mean I'm not allowed to be entertained by it, I just don't think its it's own game.


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> 400 hours



I lol'd.


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## Teco (Nov 4, 2008)

Its going to look and feel the same because it was handled by the same people none the less, the next Elder Scrolls isnt going to look and feel like it was developed by... Valve or something. They're using their engine. It's Fallout to their engine, there isnt an engine for Fallout. Not a next gen one atleast so no matter what you say. It isnt Black Isle's Fallout3 because they're gone. Unless every fan banded together to make an engine for a true Fallout experience then just enjoy this or dont. I dont think you should hate a game just because it isnt the same, I find it fun and challenging. Yes again, you can tell its made with their engine. But thats it, made with a different engine, probably the best pick for a Fallout themed game, what other engine would be better?


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## lilEmber (Nov 4, 2008)

Teco don't bother, he's right and were and everybody that reviewed the game is wrong. He wants it to be 100% realistic while being fallout, while being a rpg, while bla bla bla. People like that need a good few kicks in the face and not allowed on the internet.

The game is what it is, it is fallout 3, and it's better than anything you could ever dream up.

And so far I'm no where near through the entire game and I've put in a good 20+ hours. So yea, every mission, every thing... I'm getting over 200 by a long shot, just like the creators said. And because you said you did this twice I doubled it.


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## Xipoid (Nov 4, 2008)

I like Fallout 3, but not for the same reasons for the earlier games. I will say there is a definite change of atmosphere and tone with Fallout 3, which is not necessarily a bad thing.


However, the scaling of enemies is a bit annoying. Yes, it is a great device to keep the player challenged, but it also is a poor device at keeping the world plausible. Original Fallout games were more centered on location specific enemies, whereas in Fallout 3 you can pretty much wander just about anywhere early on and not have to worry about the Enclave popping out of the bushes and blasting your sorry leather-armor-wearing ass with mega death plasma rifles.


To me, it seems that Fallout 2 had the attitude of handing you the world and going "Here. Play with it" while Fallout 3 has the attitude of handing you the same world with a number of child-safety features.


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

Remember when I said this was Oblivion with Guns?

Okay.

That was really my central point.

I would've liked them to make a new engine, instead of plugging a gun into the back of a horse's ass. Which is what they did, which is why I call this "oblivion with guns."

They made it, and I don't love it. I don't really get what is supposed to be moved beyond that? I don't understand what it is with game designers grasping at dead franchises, making a different game, and slapping the name on the game.

It's okay to just let things die, and make something new.

And it seems a little weird that they couldn't have been bothered with basic changes, I mean after you see what companies did with the Unreal engines, you get a little disheartened that they just slapped a new face on the lockpick game.

And I wish we could get over this whole hand-holding thing that modern gaming does.
It's like they always want you to feel good about doing nothing. The first 2 hours of Fallout 2 is a frigging sweat fest. You're anxious and nervous about running into hoardes of raiders. That strikes me as good with the setting. You don't just trot out alone, whistling along the side of the road.

I see raiders as a waste of ammo at level 1 in this game.

This engine could do something...
I'd like to see a real challenge, I guess.
An elaborate puzzle to solve. Something I have to jot down on paper to figure out. A firefight that seems desperate, something that tests your ability to manipulate the various obstacles and EXPLODIN' CARS. Essentially, the two biggest puzzles in the game are solved by accident, just wandering around. One when you solve it gives you a freaking gun that shoots 8 nukes at the same time.

_8 nukes at the same time._

The other can either up your VATS accuracy by 15% or give you the most powerful rifle in the game, which can be repaired using a fairly common high-level rifle and uses one of the most abundant power sources from level 1+.

Its got this weird angle of trying to be the mom acting proud that her son got a B- in English class, it wants to make you feel good for being mediocre?

You can have the lowest explosives ability possible, if you pop a mentat you can disarm or wire the nuke to explode. That weakens immersion for me, because it makes it seem like everyone else in the wasteland is absolutely retarded. Someone...over 200 years would've done something about the bomb if it was that easy to screw with.

They did a lot for the AI, but its still pretty bad. I blew a weapon out of a raider's hands, shot her in both legs, and she hobbled right up to the barrel of my gun trying to run away. I wouldn't have been surprised if she reached up and pulled the trigger on her own face while yelling "please don't kill me." I don't know about dem raiders, bro, deys masochists.

I don't know. I'm probably just a crotchity old man.
Like I said, this is a) my opinion (so, you can be inclined to give two shits or not) and b) this game is still decent. Despite the flaws. I consider it to be fun. If I didn't I wouldn't be playing it again. I'm just saying, it isn't great; and I'd have to lie to myself to convince myself I'm not just playing Oblivion.

...which is really hard with the vampires and swords (you Bethesda assholes didn't even try, did you >:c). :c


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## Teco (Nov 4, 2008)

...ok the vampire's WITH swords might be alittle... wtf. I agree.


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> Teco don't bother, he's right and were and everybody that reviewed the game is wrong. He wants it to be 100% realistic while being fallout, while being a rpg, while bla bla bla. People like that need a good few kicks in the face and not allowed on the internet.
> 
> The game is what it is, it is fallout 3, and it's better than anything you could ever dream up.
> 
> And so far I'm no where near through the entire game and I've put in a good 20+ hours. So yea, every mission, every thing... I'm getting over 200 by a long shot, just like the creators said. And because you said you did this twice I doubled it.



Oh gawd. I'm not horse-whipping your mom or something, man. It's a vidyagaem. This is a thread that turned into opinions about the game. That's my opinion. I'm not trying to say your way of life is flawed or something.

And there are plenty of spoilers free forums out there with every mission broken down for you. By single persons. Not playing the leak.

It's not 200+ hours. And frankly, I find that a hard quote to believe considering BethSoft said that the game world was going to be smaller than Cyrodiil's. While I don't consider it that much smaller, if small at all. I would hesitate to call anything 200+ hours. Kind of like the 100+ endings of the game? OH, THE TALES WE WEAVE.

Has there ever even been a 200+ hour game? Ever? That wasn't 200+ hours because it was being successively played by a family of lepers (rotate everytime you lose a finger, toe, etc.)?

PS: I said I started it again, as Butcher Pete. The loveable fat-head. I don't know what to tell you, except: you better watch your wife, cuz Pete don't care whose meat he chop.


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## chronoteeth (Nov 4, 2008)

Christ every time I hear one of these fallout threads people always gotta go whine about something for god knows how long instead of just enjoying the game.

Damn you guys for makin' me detract from enjoying this game. Damn yous all to helll


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

chronoteeth said:


> Christ every time I hear one of these fallout threads people always gotta go whine about something for god knows how long instead of just enjoying the game.
> 
> Damn you guys for makin' me detract from enjoying this game. Damn yous all to helll



:>


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## Teco (Nov 4, 2008)

jellyhurwit said:


> Oh gawd. I'm not horse-whipping your mom or something, man. It's a vidyagaem. This is a thread that turned into opinions about the game. That's my opinion. I'm not trying to say your way of life is flawed or something.
> 
> And there are plenty of spoilers free forums out there with every mission broken down for you. By single persons. Not playing the leak.
> 
> ...



You can have an opinion, of course, and I have mine. I agree with alot you're saying, a multi-nuke is...awesome, yes. but yeah... that seems like a mod some little kid made up to just run through and kill anything that moves. Not perfect. It is small than Cyrodiil I think and i dont think its 200+ hours unless you play the hell out of it on purpose... possibly forcefully. 100 max. I simply dont like the fact everyone calls it Oblivion with guns, its made with the same engine is all, it has too many unique features about it to call it a replica or mod. But I wont call it Fallout either...its.. themed to Fallout and yes, maybe tailored to be more friendly to players. But the game works, and its fun. There's always mods or maybe They'll get smart to try to appeal to the fan base... I wouldnt mind a hardcore game. Not that FO3 isnt hard when played on Very Hard...but to take the old Fallout and intergrate nextgen into that formula would be kinda hard, publish could be forcing the development team too, making them only able to... blend an engine they made with one they've had. Here's hoping FO4 really connects with the beginning of the legacy.


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## Jelly (Nov 4, 2008)

I was responding to NewfDragon. You were making your points and I was responding, but I didn't mean to hurt his feelings or something in the process.

And it doesn't look like they'll be going CS on this game. :<

As for "oblivion with guns," I understand why that bugs some people, but I don't think its a bad way to sum it up. Mostly because of the sheer number of mods I pumped into Oblivion. Things that altered the game play like BethSoft did apparently aren't that difficult. It just wasn't an inspiring leap.

But like I said, it's still fun.

WHEEE.
(GARY)

PS: Sorry if I spoiled anything, I tried to keep it to a minimum.


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## Teco (Nov 4, 2008)

jellyhurwit said:


> PS: Sorry if I spoiled anything, I tried to keep it to a minimum.



Must...resist... going to Museum of History...


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## scarei_crow (Nov 5, 2008)

jellyhurwit, i find it strange that you should say you have beaten the game twice etc. but you don't particually love it, this seems rather wierd, normally people only replay a game if they love it, or if it has completely different story/gameplay on the second run.

regardless, fallout 3 is not an RPG, nor a core shooter, its a hybrid RPG, which means theres a mix of shooter and RPG elements, and don't say i just made this up, because mass effect is a hybrid, as is dues ex, not to mention others.

anyways, fallout 3 rules, its easily one of the best games i have ever played, and im sure many people agree.


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## Jelly (Nov 5, 2008)

scarei_crow said:


> jellyhurwit, i find it strange that you should say you have beaten the game twice etc. but you don't particually love it, this seems rather wierd, normally people only replay a game if they love it, or if it has completely different story/gameplay on the second run.
> 
> regardless, fallout 3 is not an RPG, nor a core shooter, its a hybrid RPG, which means theres a mix of shooter and RPG elements, and don't say i just made this up, because mass effect is a hybrid, as is dues ex, not to mention others.
> 
> anyways, fallout 3 rules, its easily one of the best games i have ever played, and im sure many people agree.



I find it odd that you post in a forum, and yet seem to have trouble reading.

1. I stated that I started the game a second time. I directly stated this in my first post and re-stated it when NewfDragon said that they didn't think it was possible that I had beaten it twice.
2. I know its a hybrid RPG, and I made a direct correlation to how successful I think the hybridization is with Deus Ex as my example. 

However, I believe that this game is an FPS first and an RPG last of all things. It primarily relies on player skill, not character skill - which is something of a definition of RPG. As an example, in Fallout (which is an RPG), all of your combat is dependent on your character's ability to shoot a gun, and their strength to wield a weapon. Your input came down to what you wanted your character to do, but you were limited by what your character could do.

This is what it means to play a role.

A decent hybridization, in my mind, would be something like Deus Ex. Your bullet scatters in a totally random way depending on your ability with said weapon. However, in Fallout 3, you can be incredibly precise even if your character is horrendous with that weapon. Which is why I used the example of blowing a persons head off from a minute run away with only a 30 small guns skill. Likewise, you can pick up a minigun and hose someone down from a nearly equal distance (and low skill); just as a person issue, I find it hard to believe that a character with 3 strength can even so much as pick up a minigun, let alone consistently fire the thing. I was also trying to state that elements like lockpicking and hacking are specifically geared towards playing them, as opposed to relying on character skill. Something incredibly outside the RPG element. This game is so outside of "RPG," that I think calling it an FPS/Adventure would be more reasonable.

I also stated 3 or more times that this is still a decent game. Games don't have to be amazing to warrant a replay. And I'm not so delusion to think that every game I consider great to be flawless. There are always issues.


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## chronoteeth (Nov 5, 2008)

chronoteeth said:


> Christ every time I hear one of these fallout threads people always gotta go whine about something for god knows how long instead of just enjoying the game.
> 
> Damn you guys for makin' me detract from enjoying this game. Damn yous all to helll



.


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## Teco (Nov 5, 2008)

Chrono, the ending of the game is....that the cake is a lie. Ha. How's that for a ruiner.   

..wait


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## lilEmber (Nov 5, 2008)

I think it's also funny people don't call this a role playing game....

YOU'RE PLAYING A CHARACTER. IT'S A FUCKING RPG.

FPS games can be considered a roleplaying game.

Nearly any game can be considered it.

Just because you can't go grind your ass off on monsters/jumping/talking/etc to level up or gain stats doesn't mean it's any less of a RPG. It's for people that have some skill. Seriously, people that grind have no skill and when Fallout 3 took that away they all cried "It's not a RPG, it's not fallout 3, waaa waaaahhh!" Get some skill before you play Fallout 3 and stop grinding in games. It's quite pathetic.


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## Magnus (Nov 5, 2008)

so i accidentally fallout on my pc, what is the purpose of this game D: after killing and stuffies i had to escape out of that place, now i'm in this bigass world, killed some doods. 

now what?


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## Teco (Nov 5, 2008)

Magnus said:


> so i accidentally fallout on my pc, what is the purpose of this game D: after killing and stuffies i had to escape out of that place, now i'm in this bigass world, killed some doods.
> 
> now what?



Anything you want.


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## Jelly (Nov 5, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> I think it's also funny people don't call this a role playing game....
> 
> YOU'RE PLAYING A CHARACTER. IT'S A FUCKING RPG.
> 
> ...



Okay, then, agree to disagree. x_x

@Magnus: kill they ass.

It looks like a patch will be coming out very shortly (and rumor had it: tonight) for anyone who has been experiencing crashes without solution (I was surprised to hear a lot of people were, and I was somehow fine with my poopy computer). I guess there were problems with mobo compatibility, specific cards, etc.

If you have the PC version, that is. Obviously you're a-okay if you xbawks-in'.


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## blackfuredfox (Nov 5, 2008)

looks FUCKING AWSOME, saw the commercial and now i cant get that song out of my head.


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## Teco (Nov 5, 2008)

blackfuredfox said:


> looks FUCKING AWSOME, saw the commercial and now i cant get that song out of my head.



...dont wanna set the world. On.. Fire~.


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## lilEmber (Nov 5, 2008)

Yea there is issues with certain resolutions, texture levels, and anti-aliasing apparently. THe more you make the game look good (turning up the graphics and effects) the faster it crashes. Basically it's a memory leak and it builds up and builds up then it crashes. So it's not hard to fix, just surprised they didn't catch this because both me and my roommate get one a hour.


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## Kyoujin (Nov 6, 2008)

Still love this game, but I'm sad that the level cap is only 20. It seems like I hit it pretty fast, too. Wasn't even halfway through all the quests. But I'm guessing they may raise it at a later date, especially with additional quests on their way.

I've fallen on some annoying glitches, though. Two people just randomly disappeared. The one guy at the Water Plant in Megaton.. I kept selling my scrap metal to him, and one day he just disappeared. ;[ I've waited quite awhile but he never returned, can't find him in the town either. Same with the person with the Returners or whatever they're called (the people whom if you select the good talent where you can fingers to that girl and she'll give you money for it). I walked in one day, and she randomly started fleeing and ran out the door. xD I ran after her, but she was gone once I got outside. Waited several days, both in game and real time, but she never came back. ;[ Grr, I've got like ONE HUNDRED FINGERS NOW, WHAT THE HELL AM I GOING TO DO WITH THEM. Haha.

I'll probably do one more playthrough as an evil female, but I've almost already got all the achievements. I love this game to death. ;x I just hope those add on quests come fast!

And I love the music. <3


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## Teco (Nov 6, 2008)

Kyoujin said:


> And I love the music. <3



..i just want..  to start a flame in your heart~ *punched* Ok. Stopping now.

Yeah, I've noticed some glitches... just as Jericho suddenly attacking me after I gave him a minigun then being my friend after I ran out of two areas with him. (he was my follower) Im going to start a game with a female purple furry lazor wielder *punched for 2, joke* after i hit level 20... just to see what sort of option I get with Black Widow -3- ...quite liked the different options I got in Fallout 2 with a female character. *shunned because you probably know those options*


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## lilEmber (Nov 6, 2008)

Literally this game is *the best* RPG I've ever played. The immersion is more so than any other game.

From the beginning to about where I am now (Still not finished because I'm simply enjoying it) I am able to do almost everything I would actually do in that situation. From speech to actions. Right about now a few things have taken away, and a few things have boosted greatly.



**Spoilers**




One thing, going back to 101 and seeing the room where you had your birthday...it almost made me cry. I don't know if there was any other way of doing that quest, but I had to leave and never come back. And...I felt bad. I actually felt bad that I could not return to my home, that my father was killed, my childhood was torn apart. I had nothing but the wasteland and now my fathers goal. To purify the water. And I haven't done it yet (I'm not done the game) but I will damn right do it. Even if it kills me, I'm finishing what he started. 

This game, it honestly could of easily been better. But only with allowing more choice. Besides random bugs, because it is new and I can forgive it. I wish the redid the engine, from scratch specifically for this game. With the movement of objects not just hover but like, actually grasp. 

A few times I actually played along taking only equipment that a person would..well take. And taking off the helmet and laying on the table in 101's kitchen area where your 10th birthday was. Just sitting down. It was quite enjoyable, for a game.

Then I killed some raiders. Because that's just plain awesome.


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## Jelly (Nov 6, 2008)

Kyoujin said:


> I've fallen on some annoying glitches, though. Two people just randomly disappeared. The one guy at the Water Plant in Megaton.. I kept selling my scrap metal to him, and one day he just disappeared. ;[ I've waited quite awhile but he never returned, can't find him in the town either.



I don't know how to tell you this...but, h-he's probably dead. :c
There's a glitch where he walks right over the edge of the balcony.
Someone made a post about that in /v/ thinking it was a secret "whodunnit?" quest because he found him with a lead pipe in his inventory.

It's probably going to be something they fix in a patch - but I wonder what they're going to do if he already died in your game?

An aside:
I'm kinda surprised how many people don't like the way the Enclave armor looks. Personally, I think it looks fucking awesome. Plus, it makes them look utterly alien, which is pretty unnerving and fitting when they talk like US soldiers.
(I'm an airplane, vrrooooom.)


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## ADF (Nov 6, 2008)

Game wise my opinion is it's a bastardisation of the Fallout franchise and has little to no respect for the original lore set by the series (not that the target audience gives a shit). But as a stand alone game it is alright, it reminds me of  a few FPS/RPG hybrids like Bloodlines and Deus Ex but in an open world. The HUD on PC is an obvious console cut and paste, they could have at least scaled the damn thing; I don't need to be able to read it from the other side of the room.

Graphics wise I wouldn't call it superior to Oblivion but rather a re-optimisation. Effects and post processing have improved since Oblivion, poly count has gone down however. I think they did this to aid streaming performance, effects are simple to turn on or off while object/character meshes take longer to be loaded into memory before display. Either way the end result is there is less loading stutter than Oblivion, on my system there is still a little however. I also get that VATS frame rate slow down bug from time to time, hopefully that will be fixed in a patch.

Overall I would rated it a crappy Fallout sequel but an ok stand alone game. They could have avoided a lot of bad publicity and hassle if they just called it Fallout [insert name]; rather than refer to it as a sequel to the main franchise.


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## Yaoi-Mikey (Nov 6, 2008)

It's fun, but it's just not Fallout, just not to me.

I still regularly play the original Fallout games and I just can't bridge this game into the greatness of the old ones, Bethesda makes good games, this game is definetly fun, but it shouldn't be called Fallout.


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## lilEmber (Nov 6, 2008)

How is it not fallout? I don't see I've read on the storyline and synopsis  of both fallout and fallout 2 and it seems to be a perfect sequel.

If you want to go back to 2d turn based, then you might also want to just go play fallout or fallout2 seeing as there wont be any difference, at all...

Fallout 3, is fallout 3. Looking at the story, the way the game it played, and etc... this is what they wanted when the originally made fallout. The reason then they couldn't do what fallout 3 has done is just technology.

But reading both fallout and fallout 2's plot, synopsis I can easily tell you it is where they wanted to take it and it deserves the Fallout 3 title.


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## ADF (Nov 6, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> How is it not fallout? I don't see I've read on the storyline and synopsis  of both fallout and fallout 2 and it seems to be a perfect sequel.


You don't find what they did with the Brotherhood of Steel contradictory to the previous games? Or in regard to the lethality of radiation? Or the difficulty of super mutants?

It is not a bad game, but I personally find there are far too many lore inconsistencies to be called a loyal sequel to the franchise; and I am not referring to the new game play style.


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## Teco (Nov 6, 2008)

ADF said:


> You don't find what they did with the Brotherhood of Steel contradictory to the previous games? Or in regard to the lethality of radiation? Or the difficulty of super mutants?
> 
> It is not a bad game, but I personally find there are far too many lore inconsistencies to be called a loyal sequel to the franchise; and I am not referring to the new game play style.



I think lethality of radiation or the difficulty of an enemy could be considered mechanics... not actual lore.  And it is the east side and not the west side of the US this is taking place in... so that... might explain the Brotherhood thing.. somehow, ya never know, it is Fallout after all, lots of strange unexpected things.


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## ADF (Nov 6, 2008)

Teco said:


> I think lethality of radiation or the difficulty of an enemy could be considered mechanics... not actual lore.  And it is the east side and not the west side of the US this is taking place in... so that... might explain the Brotherhood thing.. somehow, ya never know, it is Fallout after all, lots of strange unexpected things.


I just find it a little weird I was able to take on 4 super mutants at once at level 6, with the weakest 6 dmg laser pistol, with only 22 energy weapon skill. I was only using the weapon to conserve ammo as well, I'll put that down to Bethesda's silly level scaling system.

The BOS are the worst though as they are in complete contradiction to how they were portrayed in the previous games, it's not like most of the target audience would notice I guess. Makes me chuckle at the idea of some of them playing the previous games after Fallout 3 and expecting it to be consistent, some of them may actually try that first BOS mission in good faith.


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## Teco (Nov 6, 2008)

Maybe you arent playing it like its Fallout.. set it on the hardest difficulty and only use Vats in combat.


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## Jelly (Nov 6, 2008)

Teco said:


> I think lethality of radiation or the difficulty of an enemy could be considered mechanics... not actual lore.  And it is the east side and not the west side of the US this is taking place in... so that... might explain the Brotherhood thing.. somehow, ya never know, it is Fallout after all, lots of strange unexpected things.




*minor spoilers*

Not that unexpected, though.
BoS is something that could be expected of a wasteland environ. It was also a well-made comment on the difference between new world and old world. How at odds the two were from one another. The Brotherhood secludes itself away from wastelanders. Which they even make obvious in Fallout 3 - Maxson's great-great-grandson even says that the cult's motto is that wastelanders aren't people. Yet, here they are, dying to help them - and for what?

I also find it hard to believe that a Brotherhood elder was moved by the plight of the locals. And that somehow, 99% of his corps didn't just remove him or leave. You come across Outcasts, but they're a minority. Also, some of the BoS in Columbia actually want them dead for not defending locals at a defecting elder's word. Despite the whole credo of a "Brotherhood."

There's this group just sitting on a pile of ridiculously powerful tech, and they would never stop to help the others around them, unless they see a clear benefit. The benefit is very marred in Fallout 3.

1. Lots of original BoS members die (and so with them trained technicians, strategists, and cult brothers)
2. Recruit natives who don't understand tech.
3. Tech gets disseminated more rapidly to a populace of mostly raiders and super mutants as people bail on the dangerous situations they're being placed in, or possibly kill fellow members for the clear benefit of more armor and weapons (because its more difficult to brainwash outsiders).
4. ???
5. Profit?

The Outcasts in FO3 should've been the actual BoS. Not helpful. Not a good deal as an outsider. Condescending, unfriendly, and only interested in protecting themselves and to ensure that their knowledge is never lost.

Fallout was never about noble emotionalism. The characters of the wasteland were believable because they weren't self-sacrificing. They were only interested in fighting if it was profitable for them. Its hard enough just finding food, water, and stable shelter anyways. If you do, its not because you were Capt. Helpful. It was because you knew when to take advantage of a good situation. The Brotherhood was clinging to something on the verge of extinction - pre-war technology and ideas. If they died, it died. Mankind would be cast back into the stone age (or so they believe - and Rivet City is scarcely enough to convince the destruction of an entire lifestyle and set of principles). 

Fallout's difficulty along with the advantages for being a careless, sometimes, evil prick had rung more true to "the world chews you up and spits you out." You weigh benefits of dealing with others. It isn't worth it to help some rinky-dink sheriff take out the personal army of a gangster, so you book it - or help the bad guy. You'll help people to a point, but you'll never go so far as being someone's personal army. It changes your idealism from "help everyone," to "help yourself." And, hell, if you actually help Gizmo the town ends up being safer because he runs it with better pay and controls the services, allowing them to expand.  Lines end up blurring in the wasteland.

@Newf: You should actually play the first two before you comment on whether or not this game is Fallout. That may be why you don't understand how this consistently rings "not a true sequel" to many Fallout fans who have played it. Not trying to offend, just saying. There's a lot more to the game than its main quest and general plot. The interactions are the most important thing in the game, in my mind.

I mean, I really liked Fallout Tactics; but it wasn't Fallout.

And I do wonder why the hell Super Mutants are even in DC. At first I wasn't going to let it bother me. However, they blatantly say "we don't know where they're coming from," and that "they're searching for something." Did I just skip some dialog when I was playing? I'm wondering where the hell they're coming from, too. I mean, they're swarming DC, but you can't find anything even vaguely related to them downtown.

Another aside: The Brotherhood actually being in DC seems a little weird. I mean, traveling across the country with a small detachment seems basically impossible in the world of FO1 and 2. I mean, even if you have power armor, you have no idea what's out there. And likely the Great Plains is a crater-filled desert shithole, just like California. I mean, even in power armor, at times it can be difficult to just cross California from north-to...-middle.  All it takes is two Deathclaw attacks, and a small party of the Brotherhood could be butchered. Airships made a little more sense, because hell - its chaos on the ground. Fallout always tried to breathe down your neck about traveling alone as an explorer. The Brotherhood couldn't even waste small scouting parties in FO1 to search around for a potential threat to the Brotherhood itself. Which is why they send you on that suicide mission. c:

I wonder if they went through Dogtown on foot. :>


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## lilEmber (Nov 6, 2008)

If you actualyl played the game they talk about why the BOS is like that, and they also tlak about how they originated on the west coast, they continue on to tlak about (of in computers talk about) their differences and how the east has changed them.

As for enemy scaling, you are right... but you can always change the slider bar in the options menu to hard... they attempted to do it this way because morons would probably venture into the downtown area, like you did, at low level. Getting their asses handed to them...and most gamers get frustrated when they encounter a enemy they simply can't kill and have to go back to their last save...


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## ADF (Nov 6, 2008)

You can always justify something by creating new lore; but it doesn't change that alteration is inconsistent with the lore set in previous games, that they turned assholes into paladins. Look I'm not calling the game bad because it is inconsistent, just don't tell me it is a loyal sequel because you want it to receive perfect praise. I think the game is alight, isn't that enough?


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## Runefox (Nov 6, 2008)

There's a lot of text explaining things in the game that you don't get through dialogue. Hacking terminals gets you a plethora of information on what's happened in DC and even accounts of people who were living through the nuclear exchange. They've spent a hell of a long time drilling down through the lore and backstory of the game (though it would have been nice if they had thought the main quest out a little better), and it shows.

As for the Super Mutants, weapons skill and radiation, have you tried turning the difficulty up? I hadn't even realized there was a setting for it until I decided to crawl through the options menu. I would imagine you would find it quite different in the higher difficulties.

As for the Brotherhood of Steel, as Newf said, the original Fallout games were portrayed on the West coast of the USA, in and around California. This game focuses on the opposite coast, in the ruins of Washington DC. That's a long distance with no communication lines or anything like that - They may as well be like the different tribes of Native Americans back in and before the colonial days of North America. Through their migration, they may well have lost their original manifesto. It's completely stupid to imagine that they would be exactly the same as their West-coast counterparts.


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## Jelly (Nov 6, 2008)

A) Like I said - talking to Squire Maxson reveals that the actual cult attitude and credo hasn't changed. Only it has, because...*arbitrary*.
B) They actually have had communication with the old Brotherhood. Which is actually in the main speech parts. The old Elders disagree with Lyons. That doesn't justify the change, though. It's a bumpy change.

(They've also only been segregated through distance from the Brotherhood at most 25-30 years.)

It would be like if an Elder was dipped in FEV by the Master and everyone was just like, "nah, bro's coo'." And when he went "UNK, YOU THROW SELF INTO FIRE," they all sacrificed themselves.

As for the terminals and pre-War information like the previously mentioned Keller tapes, those don't really add much to a world that has been without its history for 200 years. Fallout was more about the present being born on top of the husk of a dead world. Post-Nuke.
Terminals that state things like "oh god, it's really happening, the bombs are dropping. Tell my family I love them," or the Germantown HQ reports, and Lamplight history seem to be in conflict of interest with where Fallout was taking you. The idea was that you were a fossil of the old world, and that that world is gone. You got to see some familiar things, but never familiar enough, always to the point of feeling like an outsider.

This stuff isn't actually related to the world you're in.
That world has been dead for 200 years. Its kind of hard to care.

I have to admit, though. It was nice to see a few actual terminals in the nameless "Hotel" and "Office Building" locations through-out the city.
Still, I would've rather 3 more towns like Megaton than any of the bonus - world is dying stuff. c:

I am an intensely nerdy post-nuke'r, but its really jarring how they try to make you connect with two completely different worlds. I mean, especially considering how undesirable the old world appears and how the final opponent is the old world.

On the one hand, you're supposed to help the world move on; on the other, feel bad that the world moved on.

I don't know. Maybe I'm a yutz.


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## lilEmber (Nov 6, 2008)

I just finished the main storyline, and I must say that it was a absolute amazing game.

If one thing I could change is more choice in the main storyline, especially going back to 101, as well the game not actually ending, like Oblivion did, though...thatm ight of just been the way I finished the game.

I ended up saving before I did the last part and I was able to get 6 endings in just that one part. All really cool endings too.

But you don't continue, that's it...just like farcry 2 they give you this massive area, huge amout of things to do, possibilities, then they make it so once you beat the game you can't do anything else...

Also found my dog...near the end... Was quite enjoyable just walking down the road with him, and the ending movie showing a similar clip.


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## Yaoi-Mikey (Nov 7, 2008)

Meh, it was a fun game, but just something didn't feel right, I don't know how to explain it, I'm not talking about the combat or how it's 3D or anything like that, just the general feel of the "Fallout World" that Bethesda made.


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## Teco (Nov 7, 2008)

I just thought of something... why hasnt anyone pulled South Park. "They raped Indy" joke on this game on this thread yet!


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Teco said:


> I just thought of something... why hasnt anyone pulled South Park. "They raped Indy" joke on this game on this thread yet!



EWOKS!

I suppose I shouldn't be bothered that someone else is getting a kick out of it...

but this game is like Bethesda pissing on me and trying to tell me that it's actually raining.

Why would it have been so bad to stay closer to FO1 and 2 lore-wise? You want your new gameplay system, OK, fine (you console whores).  But why fuck with the lore?


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## Teco (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> EWOKS!
> 
> I suppose I shouldn't be bothered that someone else is getting a kick out of it...
> 
> ...



I suppose.. it could be... now that i think of it, a try to make their own fallout story


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Teco said:


> I suppose.. it could be... now that i think of it, a try to make their own fallout story



Then why call it Fallout? If they're deviating from the Fallout lore, why bother calling it Fallout (other than to try and cash in on the Fallout name like the whores they are >:/ )?


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## Teco (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> Then why call it Fallout? If they're deviating from the Fallout lore, why bother calling it Fallout (other than to try and cash in on the Fallout name like the whores they are >:/ )?



Cause if they didnt they'd be rip offs. They need to give Fallout credit dont they?


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## Tycho (Nov 7, 2008)

Teco said:


> Cause if they didnt they'd be rip offs. They need to give Fallout credit dont they?



No, not really.  They could spend a little time creating their OWN game world and lore, and come out with something unfettered by the Fallout name and lore.  Using Fallout was a shortcut (hay look we can just bastardize an existing game setting rather than exercise the creativity needed to create our own, oh and we can cash in on the Fallout name too! hurfdurfdurf).


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## Teco (Nov 7, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> No, not really.  They could spend a little time creating their OWN game world and lore, and come out with something unfettered by the Fallout name and lore.  Using Fallout was a shortcut (hay look we can just bastardize an existing game setting rather than exercise the creativity needed to create our own, oh and we can cash in on the Fallout name too! hurfdurfdurf).



I would. Is it not 1. Smart to do. 2. believable that they were fans themselves? I am, and I'd want to keep that idea going if I could since it apparently died. I think their engine does a decently good job at it, and really. Even if this was a devious attempt to tap the fan base for money which... is working no matter what anyone says, you must remember that the higher ups make all the decisions... someone mustve been. "Hey, Fallout would work great with our engine." And they thought so too... and then could have rushed them or forced certain ... things on them. You never know. I like to give people who are currently more successful the benefit of the doubt.    Its like when people make porn for us furs. I believe most of us LOVE the stuff. I certainly do, I'll admit.... so if you're looking to make money with your art.. how would you best go about that? Its something like that.


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## lilEmber (Nov 7, 2008)

I sitll don't see how it's not fallout...

People saying it isn't but, probably haven't played the game while people I know have, and reviewers all say it's fallout...hmmm....wonder who is right....


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## Teco (Nov 7, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> I sitll don't see how it's not fallout...
> 
> People saying it isn't but, probably haven't played the game while people I know have, and reviewers all say it's fallout...hmmm....wonder who is right....



*shrug* Im not sure. I guess it just doesnt have that feel. All people seem to say is that its not Fallout or dont feel like it is... on their defense, it'd be better with even more grittyness and .. just hardness. More hardcore and epic than it already is.


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## ADF (Nov 7, 2008)

Can never be wrong/neutral aye NewfDraggie? Always have to be argumentative, even if it means telling people who have played the previous games whether the sequel is loyal to a game franchise you haven't played...

Don't get me wrong as I am a argumentative git myself, but sometimes...


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## lilEmber (Nov 8, 2008)

I'm asking a valid question, how is it not fallout?

If you can't answer, then it is fallout and you're just being a nit-pick because a different company is making it, end of story. 

Oh and ADF did you check you the *massive* difference between the console fallout and PC fallout? Like a completely different game, no?


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## Jelly (Nov 8, 2008)

Every time we give you reasons its not Fallout, you just say that this game is clearly perfect and that there's something wrong with all of us. I don't understand why you keep asking. It's clear you don't understand, and no matter what we tell you - we're clearly saying something you don't want to accept as valid reasons.

There's no way to really have a rational conversation with you about this.

Its not like we're even trying to convince you of anything, you just keep asking and then get frustrated at the answers.

It's okay. We don't have to agree. It's not even like any of us had said its a bad game. What do you care what people who played the original Fallout games think?

If you're referring to the console version of Fallout 3 and PC version, I can't speak on this.
If you're talking about the differences between Fallout 1/2 and Fallout: BoS (aka: PoS as its known by *everyone*), then nobody cares. It was deeply shunned by the community, and its doubtful save for a few pitiful souls spying it in a bargain bin even played it. It was universally canned by every critic. It's made it to a number of top ten worst games in history lists.

If its the former - it seems like the PC version was a direct slurp of the Xbox version. Considering things like (A) and (X) are randomly assigned to actions in inventory screens.

Quick question: any PC players notice a few weird errors since the new patch? I went to the Super-Duper Mart and was confronted by a Scavenger with a Yao Guai who told me to back off because "this Enclave tech" was his. However, the only thing near by were some raider corpses and a Protectron. He would sell me things, but after I walked away he became a hostile target. When I actually went into the Super-Duper Mart, I killed a few raiders, one of them dropped his gun when shot in the arm. It gave me the option to pickpocket his gun that was sitting on the ground (so, I determined that the game in its own pitiful way was telling me "RAIDER STILL AROUND, BOSS.") So, I found him hiding in a corner. Shot him once, and he pulled out the gun that was lying in the other room suddenly off his back (the model for the gun wasn't on his back). When I killed him and pilfered the shotgun, I noticed that the one in the other room, was in fact, gone.

Teleporting inventory.

I also have noticed a severe FPS hit. I guess I don't really understand why. However, my FPS inside a building was probably around 50-60, but now it seems to be around 30 with a barrage of hiccups.

(PS: Second playthrough, Level 3)

Oh yeah.
My stats also flipped out. It was saying that I had a 24 explosives skill after eating a mentat (which didn't seem right to me, but I hadn't played for a few days and started the game over a bunch of times [because I decided I could get a better character set up]), when I went to level up upon passing the 2-3 threshold, I had a 57 explosives skill before applying skill points.

Just wondering if anyone else is having these problem.


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## ADF (Nov 8, 2008)

NewfDraggie said:


> I'm asking a valid question, how is it not fallout?
> 
> If you can't answer, then it is fallout and you're just being a nit-pick because a different company is making it, end of story.
> 
> Oh and ADF did you check you the *massive* difference between the console fallout and PC fallout? Like a completely different game, no?


People have already explained the differences, you have just chosen to ignore them. As I said you can come up with the best explanation in the world for making changes, doesn't change people are going to notice something firmly set in the lore did a complete 180. As I keep saying the game isn't bad it's just not completely loyal to the series, it's clear you want perfect praise because you love this game but it isn't going to happen. That isn't the same as calling it bad though, learn the difference and recall these are just peoples personal opinions of the experience.

As for the *massive* and *completely different game* I have to recall the last thread we had on that, the one were we spent *days* going over whether a little haziness in most console vs PC screenshots constitutes a massive difference and catering to the PC version. We have very different opinions on what can be considered massive differences, massive to me is having 512x512 facial textures while the consoles get 256x256, not a little less texture compression of identical art assets.

There was a 360 vs PS3 Fallout 3 thread over at GameSpot, some off screen console shots got compared to the PC version on this page. A little difficult to use for comparison, looking at them though if there is a *significant *difference I don't see it. 

There needs to be better side by side comparison pictures, preferably direct feeds, until then I don't see any difference glaring enough to declare superiority. I'm sure we have the cleanest looking version, but in terms of talking night and day I'm on the fence until better evidence is presented.


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## lilEmber (Nov 8, 2008)

Well I have seen images of the console versions the biggest thing is on the consoles the textures are very rounded, it's more blurry and the view distance isn't near as high and that's comparing it to mine with the settings not even maxed out...

As for it not being fallout I asked exactly what about it wasn't fallout, then you answered with something like it's too easy, radiation doesn't insta-harm you, as well little things like the brotherhood is suppose to be evil...to which me and another both responded with explanations why...those things, especially with the reasons, don't take it away from being exactly dead on to fallout's story. And yes, the game is all about the story. Seeing as before it was turn based 2d, now it's real-time 3d, of course there is going to be a difference...especially when you're giving the player the freedom to go anywhere right away, if they walk into radiation you don't want it to be as harmful, same goes to them walking into a super-mutant. 

Like you did right away before level 5... if that ended with you having just the autosave walking into the building or whatnot where the super was, then you're basically screwed and have to start over.

New gameplay elements don't make it "not fallout" because it's about the story that makes it fallout. The atmosphere, and etc... not how you play it...

That's like saying GTAIII isn't GTA because it's not 2d, eaglevision, and no plot...


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## TheComet (Nov 8, 2008)

Man I started my "evil" character today and I have to admit - chosing the gun over the dictionary makes you freaking rich XD

Evil guy stats
10 Str
10 Per
10 End
0 Chr
0 Int
10 AGI
0 Lk
speaks for itself, but unstoppable

My good guy has mostly perception, charisma, and intelligence, which pays off in unique ways in missions and lets you get some awesome perks like Animal Friend or Step Lightly

And if you intend to blow up Megaton, by all meanes do part of the survival guide and get Jericho to join you.

Jericho is best compared to one of the skill masters of Oblivion, in this case, he would be the master of Small Arms.
The fact you can tell them whether to melee or use a gun and tell them what distance to follow is great too, came in handy when I was in a tunnel and a ruptured gas pipe meant a gunshot would torch everyone.
Sneaking with a follower works too, hold fire until fired on

only drawback is they tend to fall off of small bridges with a big fall below, a headache to have to reload to keep an ally.


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## Teco (Nov 8, 2008)

I had a feeling if I blew up Megaton there might be a ghoul or two created in the process... possibly for revenge... but why Moira? *shot her in the face after I was forced into conversation with her after I fast traveled to the ruins.*


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## Bokracroc (Nov 8, 2008)

What's with the character/quest/location referencing to people I've never met/Never done/Never been do going on?
Did anyone bother to check that at all?


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## Teco (Nov 8, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> What's with the character/quest/location referencing to people I've never met/Never done/Never been do going on?
> Did anyone bother to check that at all?



Oh. In the southwest corner is Jesus, they had him come back, second 'coming'.. didnt see that did you? Neither did she. Oh dissed Jesus!
Jesus: *angry fist shake*
*punched*

Uh. Yeah. Who and the what now?


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## Tycho (Nov 8, 2008)

Teco said:


> Oh. In the southwest corner is Jesus, they had him come back, second 'coming'.. didnt see that did you? Neither did she. Oh dissed Jesus!
> Jesus: *angry fist shake*
> *punched*
> 
> Uh. Yeah. Who and the what now?



...for a fraction of a second I thought you were referring to the Mordinos from FO2.


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## Teco (Nov 8, 2008)

Tycho The Itinerant said:


> ...for a fraction of a second I thought you were referring to the Mordinos from FO2.



=P Oh, pfft. No, I hadnt even thought of that... that'd be funny though.
....damn, now I want to check that corner of the map for anything crazy.


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## Bokracroc (Nov 8, 2008)

Teco said:


> Oh. In the southwest corner is Jesus, they had him come back, second 'coming'.. didnt see that did you? Neither did she. Oh dissed Jesus!
> Jesus: *angry fist shake*
> *punched*
> 
> Uh. Yeah. Who and the what now?


You go up to a random NPC and start talking to them, they start talking about that you should go back to _*Plot location*_ (that you've never been to before, nor even heard of) to update _*Plot character*_ on your progress (Even though you've never been to the location they're at, you've never even talked to them before, and that it's the first time you'll ever heard their name) on this Plot Quest.


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## Teco (Nov 8, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> You go up to a random NPC and start talking to them, they start talking about that you should go back to _*Plot location*_ (that you've never been to before, nor even heard of) to update _*Plot character*_ on your progress (Even though you've never been to the location they're at, you've never even talked to them before, and that it's the first time you'll ever heard their name) on this Plot Quest.



Uh.... sounds like a quest giver. Or a dude telling you of a quest... or some sort of glitch


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## Bokracroc (Nov 8, 2008)

Rivet City.


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## lilEmber (Nov 8, 2008)

My roommate had that as well, but I never had it. I had to go into the city and talk around, during the quest for information on the city. Might be a bug, but I never got it.


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## Zero_Point (Nov 23, 2008)

Well, after having finished the game, I only have 3 words to sum up what I think of this game:
LIBERTY-FUCKING-PRIME. :O

But in all seriousness, it was a pretty damn good game. I've not played any of the other games in the "series" (since there's a debate on wether Fallout 3 is really Fallout 3), but here's what I think:
The whole "scavenging for supplies" thing becomes alot easier as you level up. Used to I could barely keep ammo for a hunting rifle, by game's end I had 14 mini-nukes, 40+ missiles, 2000+ minigun/gatling laser rounds, 2000+ laser pistol rounds, 1500+ 5.56mm rounds, 600+ railroad spikes (sold half of them when I found out how relatively weak the Rail-way rifle was), 150+ Stim-paks and over 7,000 bottle caps. Of course snagging every piece of junk and hocking it off on every merchant I can is mostly the secret to my success, as well as some people being so easy to rob blind (and yet I still ended as "Last, True Hope of Humanity"). It really helps to have a high-strength character early on so you can carry MOAR SHIT to sell when you get back home, whether it's in Megaton or Tenpenny or where-ever. Buff-out helps when you grab a _little_ too much at a time, too. I also maxed out my lock-pick and science skills so I could open safes much easier, meaning moar lewt. C:
But over-all, the enemies weren't very difficult on normal, the only reason I died more often than not is because they'd score a major hit while I was firing and couldn't tab-out to apply some Stim-paks in time. Most of the deadlier enemies (like Super Mutant Masters and Deathclaws) were easily avoidable and more often than not out-runnable in need-be. Mister Gutsy's and Sentry Bots were probably the only really tough enemies I faced, but even then Pulse Grenades/Mines made short work of them. Enclave soldiers were really no tougher than Super Mutants all things considering, especially after you snag a couple of plasma rifles off of 'em and keep them in good shape.
As for the ending, it was kind of unspectacular, yeah. I thought Prime's rampage through down-town DC was far more satisfying than the end itself. I'd go into more details but I'd spoil a few things if I did.


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