# Any ideas on how to gain watchers/customers without drawing only porn?



## Venu.Shade (Nov 22, 2012)

With the business I have gotten through my work it's been a 50-50 shot on whether I am asked to draw sexual material.

I have no issues drawing it, but I don't want all of my gallery to be a porn show just to gain business.

I  draw digitally and traditionally pretty well, I'm not the best in the  world and I'm always trying to improve and I admit this. I mean there  are a LOT of good artists out there...

some of my stuff:

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9206843/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8819926/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8819605/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8273786/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8548886/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9301773/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8599461/ (mild nsfw)
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9300978/ (very nsfw)

all  of my friends, even the ones that I feel draw better than me say that  my stuff is good and I should have more commissioners and what not..

I've  also been contemplating putting an ad up on FA to see if that lures in  anyone.. but I thought I'd get some second thoughts from people on here  first...


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## FireFeathers (Nov 23, 2012)

FA ad is a good start;  I'd also suggest pushing the envelope a little more, start doing some shading, start trying to put backgrounds in, that sort. Flat colors are only going to take you so far. You seem to mainly paint dragons, which will mainly bring you dragon customers. You have to be able to diversify if you want more customers


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## Venu.Shade (Nov 23, 2012)

I have been drawing more and more different species and what not, which I do enjoy. I just tried picking a bit of everything and my best examples happen to be dragons XD

I've never really felt comfortable with backgrounds at all though because I can never get the image in my head onto paper or computer canvas properly and i just give up with them :/ though I have been wanting to try with them a bit more... I dunno..

I mainly only shade though if the customer wants me to since I am decent at it.. i just don't enjoy it XD


(oh and thank you to whomever moved the thread, I had a feeling I put it in the wrong area)


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## Taralack (Nov 23, 2012)

I'd say you need to put in more effort into post producing your traditional work. Still being able to see the gray grain of the paper in a scanned artwork comes off as a bit amateurish. Likewise when making a graphic to advertise commissions, or a special you might be running. (this applies to making a banner ad as well) Do some research into graphic design, better fonts and colours, and use of the grid structure. If you don't put effort into advertising your work, what does that tell your customer? A lot of it is how good you make yourself look.

As for backgrounds, practice drawing the background first, then drawing the people in it. If you can't get the image in your head on paper it just means you can't conceptualize it properly. Look up multiple photo references and combine elements from them if you need to. 

Shading done properly will give an image a lot of depth. You wanna make sure you have enough contrast in the right places to make parts of it stand out or be subtle. For example, in the last link you posted, some shadows could be darker to better illustrate depth. (eg. on the tail, areas under the wings, areas from one character that are behind another character, butts, the area where the leg bends, etc.) A shadow on the floor wouldn't hurt either, otherwise they just look like they're floating. I also don't quite get why there's a splash of colour around the dragons, it looks like a haphazard thing applied as an afterthought.


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## Mazeburn (Nov 23, 2012)

I think just expanding yourself as an artist would really help. A lot of people go 'aaaaaah, can't do background, scared of backgrounds!' but really that's mostly because they've not given them a proper try, or at least not tried to enjoy them. I did that for yeeeeeears, then I kinda started looking at the world a bit more closely and realised that a 'background' can be just as expressive as a character, if not more so, and is often pretty damn important in making a successful image. If you can't get the image in your head, look at photos, but still use your imagination to emphasize and change things - there's no harm in that. 

If you mainly try to do stuff with just characters in a random blank space, well... That suits itself very well for porn, where all people are usually interested in seeing two characters wriggling against one another in some risque fashion. They won't see things in your gallery which might grab their imagination very much, even if you're really talented. I know there are a few artists who are very successful and never draw a background in their life, but how many movies are really aided by their locations? It lets you do so much more as an artist, from the dingy cities of film noir to the barren wastelands of the wild west, the environment tells stories about the characters you paint in there. Don't think of it as a background like you have a desktop background - it's a setting, a world! That's awesome. c: And when people see that, it'll spark their imaginations and they'll want you to draw characters meant for other things than sexytimes in a mysterious infinite white world. 

Same goes for lighting and shading, too. If you don't enjoy it, find a technique you do enjoy, there are loads of them out there. Lighting and shading can be majorly fun. Yes, it's hard and takes time, but same goes for all areas of art. xD 

I dunno how it compares for other artists, but I've had about 10 commissions on FA this month, 2 of which have been NSFW, 7 of which have involved big complex backgrounds. 

Also, consider not putting your NSFW art up in your gallery, or maybe just your scraps - it'll only draw in more of the same kind of custom. xD I have no problems drawing NSFW, but it's not my area of interest, so I never really upload that kind of thing.


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## Thaily (Nov 23, 2012)

My itty bitty shitty comics are far more popular than my porn, do some sequential work?

Aside from the standard advice to improve your work, which is always applicable.
I would recommend working on backgrounds and characters interacting with their environment.


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## Lhune (Nov 23, 2012)

Aside from the obvious, which is just to get better as an artist (seriously, if you're skilled people will come to you automatically), you could do something like 50 free sketches. I once did a portrait challenge where I drew 25 portraits (in full color) and it got a lot of attention and enthusiasm. Didn't finish all of them because my plate became too full, 25 full colors is a bit much. Sketches should definitely be do-able though. If you don't limit yourself to only a certain type of character you should also get plenty of practice that way.


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## Venu.Shade (Nov 23, 2012)

thanks for all the advice guys :3

I think I'm going to work on my shading and some backgrounds and work out some kind of style to do them in since I'm still experimenting a little bit.

As for the gray/graininess of my scanned images, I seriously can't help that.. I'm lucky I have a scanner at all at the moment so I'd say its a big improvement from taking a picture with my iPod X_x it still irks me that I can't properly fit a piece of 11x14 paper in the thing though even though the packaging said the thing could... once I get the money I'm going to try and invest in a lamination machine and a proper, larger scanner..

I have also done a few raffles and kiribans to give away some free art and my watchers that do actually pay attention to what I post flocked to those, I think I might try and do a big group picture though through a raffle and put a background to it for some serious practice work on both anatomy and everything else. Cause gosh dammit i want to get better >:U drawing and using my hands to make things is the only thing that actually gives me a sense of accomplishment in my life... I might actually look into making jewelery too but that might spread me too thin as a "jack of all trades" type.....


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## Taralack (Nov 23, 2012)

DarknessFlame said:


> As for the gray/graininess of my scanned images, I seriously can't help that.. I'm lucky I have a scanner at all at the moment so I'd say its a big improvement from taking a picture with my iPod X_x it still irks me that I can't properly fit a piece of 11x14 paper in the thing though even though the packaging said the thing could... once I get the money I'm going to try and invest in a lamination machine and a proper, larger scanner..



I said "post production". That means editing it before you upload, in which case the bare minimum would be to adjust the colour balance so you don't see the gray of the paper. 

http://red-priest-usada.deviantart.com/art/Editing-Scanned-Drawings-207697197
http://kmyechan.deviantart.com/journal/Artips-3-Scanning-and-post-editing-trad-artwork-226035227
http://www.graffiti.org/faq/scan.html

I am also assuming you have Photoshop or some other equivalent, which all things considered you should.


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## Venu.Shade (Nov 23, 2012)

i dont have photoshop.. but i do have Paint Tool Sai and GIMP... hopefully ill figure something out with those X3


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## Taralack (Nov 23, 2012)

You should be able to fix it in GIMP, SAI is more for drawing than editing.


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## Rasly (Nov 24, 2012)

You're not bad, but you have to get A LOT better if you want non-porn requests.


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## MenagerieCat (Nov 25, 2012)

Talk, and talk a lot! People can't get to know you if you don't actively participate in the community. Comment on work, the artist's profile, hangout in Livestreams, and most importantly: be polite :3


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## HipsterCoyote (Nov 26, 2012)

You could definitely stand to improve as an artist as every one has said, OP, but, the issue is not _solely_ that you need to get better.  You need to become more marketable, too.  

*Make it clearer that you are open for commissions. *I had no idea that your signature is a link to your commission sheet.  I clicked on it not for your art or for the idea that it was something you did.  I clicked on it to figure out what the hell it _was! _How you advertise is everything.  Here's something for you: a small, family owned grocery store was overshadowed by the debut of a mega franchise next door that would surely put them out of business.  The flashy storefront of the megastore was plastered in each window with ads which celebrated how amazing the store was and how quality were its wares and how cheap everything was...But how cool and awesome they were was all the ad campaign focused on, and so the front doors were kind of lost in the busy frills of their signage.  So what the small store did to draw in business from city slickers driving in to find Mega Ultra Super Store was to make a huge sign that said, "*ENTRANCE.*" Directing people towards what you want them to buy is paramount.  With all due respect, you really ought to nix the song lyrics and have something like, "Art By DarknessFlame - Open For Commissions."  With their multicolored-ness, I'm not sure a lot of people even know that the link in your signature is a link. 
*
Make your commission price sheet represent you more professionally.* As it stands, the text of your commission sheet jumps around and is a jumbled mess which is hard to read.  You have some typographical errors and, as unfair as it is, people judge you on whether or not you know the difference between "its" and "it's", "their;" "they're;" and "there", "your" and "you're," and whether I comes before or after E.  Mind that your commentary on the sheet in your comments box and your general presentation of the sheet represents you.  For example, since your first two things are "I'm sorry," the lack of confidence in yourself just tells me as a prospective customer that you don't think you know what you're doing.  If this is the case, then why should I put any stock in you as a suitable artist?  You also need to come off as if you are happy to do peoples' work for them.  The line "they are also subject to shange if I find your request to be extremely difficult for me to handle or just flat out complex as hell! or simple as hell...then youll get it dirt-ass cheap.." could really stand to be removed and shoved into a T.O.S. if you feel a very big need to say that somewhere.  I am not saying you shouldn't charge people how you see fit, but I am saying that if you carry what looks like it might be a negative attitude in your self-sell piece, you are hurting your chances. 
*
Spread your stuff out.*  Do you have a DeviantArt, a Tumblr, a Facebook page?  You could stand for more exposure by uploading your stuff in more places. 

*Give people stuff you know they'll buy.*  Fanart is a really fast way to get noticed, to be completely honest.  If you want someone to notice you, _ponies.  _If ponies doesn't work, Avatar.  If Avatar doesn't work, Homestuck.  It doesn't matter if you like, dislike, or have never ever watched/read any of it.  Remakes are insanely popular because people already like what's being sold to them, so why not see what you can ply out of that school of thought?  Sex sells, yes, but so do ponies and avatar and Homestuck and Adventure Time.  Nobody has to know you don't like it.  You can get them to start paying attention to YOU by giving them stuff that they are already inclined to pay attention to. Then, you can get back to dong the stuff you like. 

Also, seriously, get better at what you do just like everybody else has said, but that's already been said.


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## Taralack (Nov 26, 2012)

Pretty much everything HC said. 

To expand upon that:
- Okay wow, your sig was a link to your commission sheet? I didn't even know that until I read HC's post. Protip: People won't click on anything that doesn't look like a link. Avoid recolouring links. Also, this forum allows image banners in sigs, so why not make one to advertise that you're open? 

- Read up on some basic graphic design: grid structures, fonts, complementary colours, etc. NEVER, EVER, EVER squish your text using the transform tool. ALWAYS keep the same classes of font the same size and face. Eg. Title font is Babas Neue 24 pt. Paragraph font is Helvetica 12 pt. Keep it consistent and readable. Also I don't understand why the title font is pixelly and blurry. It looks like as if it was a bitmap that you resized to make bigger. NEVER do that. I don't know what program you used to make that, but in Photoshop (and same should be true for GIMP) font layers are vectors that should remain crisp and clear no matter how big or small you resize them. 

- Ditto to reposting your stuff elsewhere. You don't have to post ALL of it everywhere, lord knows that would be tiring and get boring after a while. If you want to, you can selectively post stuff to different places. Eg. I only upload fanart to my DA, sketches/cracky stuff/anything goes to my main tumblr, more polished sketches to my professional tumblr, and furry art to my FA. If you want to keep it furry only, other places to consider also posting your art are Inkbunny, Sofurry, Weasyl, Nabyn, etc. 

- Ditto again to fanart. People love crossovers, people love "draw one thing in the style of another thing", but keep it mainstream. A bunch of popular styles to draw in are Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, MLP:FiM, Avatar, etc. If video games are more your thing, drawing characters in Mass Effect, or Assassin's Creed armour can appeal greatly. Or you could always go for the classics - Sonic, Spyro, etc. Copying styles is also actually good practice for the industry, because more often than not you'll be asked to follow a style guide.


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## HipsterCoyote (Nov 26, 2012)

Also make sure anti-aliasing is turned on in PS/Gimp to get rid of a different sort of pixelated look.

Ahahaaha, Toranaeko, where I work as a graphic designer my boss does some things I just fucking can't understand but he's such a crazy good salesman and has been in the business for 28 years you just, let him do his thing.  He squishes fonts, he resizes them, he has a personal vendetta against Helvetica and uses Arial at *every single opportunity *and yet, to date, _*nobody*_ has noticed or complained because he's such a god damn boss who knows how to make these rules his bitch.  But when you watch him do it you're like WH-WHAT ARE YOU
NO

NO STOP
OH GOD

And he gets really pissed whenever I Mix Minion and Myriad.  So. Pissed.  So unreasonably pissed. I have no idea why.


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## Taralack (Nov 26, 2012)

Squishing fonts goes against my moral sensibilities :c


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## Zoetrope (Nov 26, 2012)

Quantity over Quality. The people that churn out sketch after sketch after sketch get more watchers than those that spend hours on a stunning painting.


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## Lhune (Nov 28, 2012)

Zoetrope said:


> Quantity over Quality. The people that churn out sketch after sketch after sketch get more watchers than those that spend hours on a stunning painting.



Not really; I'd say *productivity* gets you watchers, not just churning out as much work as you can. I don't know about you, but I tend to get a bit tired with an artist's work if it's just sketches over and over. Unless they are pretty damn awesome sketches. But then you're already good and don't need to worry about watchers.


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## mapdark (Nov 28, 2012)

DarknessFlame said:


> With the business I have gotten through my work it's been a 50-50 shot on whether I am asked to draw sexual material.
> 
> I have no issues drawing it, but I don't want all of my gallery to be a porn show just to gain business.
> 
> ...



I will admit that on the technical you front you are indeed decent.
The problem is not that you are bad at illustrating  . Some people with less technical potential and skills have been able to gain some popularity.

No , the problem (and don't take this personally) in this case is the fact that the samples you have given us are extremely generic. 

Generic pokemon , generic dragons , generic animals. 

You should try to personalize your art , make it stand out. Make it YOURS.
give it a little touch that says it's your art and not one of these countless generic drawings 
That could be found anywhere in under 5 minutes.

Also try not to emulate other people's style . 

It's a hard thing to do , but it's worth it.


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## Lhune (Nov 28, 2012)

Nothing wrong with generic if it pays. OP really shouldn't worry about style at this point.


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## mapdark (Nov 28, 2012)

Lhune said:


> Nothing wrong with generic if it pays. OP really shouldn't worry about style at this point.



... Except it doesn't? 
OP clearly stated that they are struggling to get attention from the public.

I think it's obvious in this case that having drawings that look Ã¼ber generic is not helping.

You gain attention from standing out , not by blending in!

No offense.


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## Recel (Nov 28, 2012)

One thing that has been said and will be said, and needs to be said.
Don't. Care. About. Watchers.

Draw because you want to draw. Draw at your own pace, your own way, your own ideas. People will either come, or they won't. How many views a piece gets, how many people care about your art is a side thing. It won't make your art better, not for them, not for you.
And do commissions because you want to, not because of money. You won't be really able to do them anyway if you're at a point where "Meh... I'll do it, because of the cash." and you will just burn your self out.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 28, 2012)

Recel said:


> One thing that has been said and will be said, and needs to be said.
> Don't. Care. About. Watchers.
> 
> Draw because you want to draw. Draw at your own pace, your own way, your own ideas. People will either come, or they won't. How many views a piece gets, how many people care about your art is a side thing. It won't make your art better, not for them, not for you.
> And do commissions because you want to, not because of money. You won't be really able to do them anyway if you're at a point where "Meh... I'll do it, because of the cash." and you will just burn your self out.



...Honestly, if you're uploading finished products, I would think you would want watchers. To me, that's like telling a YouTuber to not want an audience to watch their content. That's just me though.


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## mapdark (Nov 28, 2012)

XoPachi said:


> ...Honestly, if you're uploading finished products, I would think you would want watchers. To me, that's like telling a YouTuber to not want an audience to watch their content. That's just me though.



I agree.
While I believe that no one should OBSESS over the number of watchers they get , telling them that it doesn't matter is a bit hypocritical since anyone posting on an art site sorta kinda posts to GET people to watch their stuff in the first place.

If they didn't care about watchers they would keep their drawings to themselves.


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## Lhune (Nov 28, 2012)

mapdark said:


> ... Except it doesn't?
> OP clearly stated that they are struggling to get attention from the public.
> 
> I think it's obvious in this case that having drawings that look Ã¼ber generic is not helping.
> ...



You gain attention from standing out but if your drawing quality is pretty poor and ALL you want is attention, it's probably even better to stick to the hypes rather than trying desperately to be unique. Most people are only put off by such things and the energy spent in trying to be different is much better spent trying to improve oneself.

As for the not caring about watchers, that works for hobbyists I suppose. For me though, I need my watchers, they are rather important to me as any new watcher is a potential client.


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## Tiamat (Nov 28, 2012)

Indeed, I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting an audience. Of course you must draw for yourself
but in my opinion you are uploading art to FA because you want recognition and a fanbase.

And as has been pointed out already, a sure way to attract more followers is by upping your game
and improving your art.


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## mapdark (Nov 28, 2012)

Lhune said:


> You gain attention from standing out but if your drawing quality is pretty poor and ALL you want is attention, it's probably even better to stick to the hypes rather than trying desperately to be unique. Most people are only put off by such things and the energy spent in trying to be different is much better spent trying to improve oneself.
> 
> As for the not caring about watchers, that works for hobbyists I suppose. For me though, I need my watchers, they are rather important to me as any new watcher is a potential client.



That's sort of defeatist, no?

They could just try to work on their stuff to improve it instead of just settling into generic because it's "easier".


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## Lhune (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't think we're on the same page about generic stuff. Something generic, if drawn with a lot of skill and knowledge can sell REALLY well. My worry is that beginning artists fret too much over being unique and standing out when their skill level is too low to make either generic OR "unique" interesting to look at. Not to mention that to even be able to create "unique" stuff, you need to have a large visual library, which usually comes automatically with more knowledge and skill. I'm not saying OP should stick to "generic" stuff, I'm saying they shouldn't bother worrying about whether what they draw is generic or unique at all at this stage.


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## HipsterCoyote (Nov 28, 2012)

Would it be inaccurate to posit that "generic" is not the right word and it's not that OP needs to become unique? Generic is close! But it's more like the work is _forgettable._ Style aside, there is not much humor, not much eye for composition, and there is no storytelling element (drawings where you can tell what's going on are largely more appealing than 'This is a person/dragon/pokemon standing here, isn't that nice?'.  Even if it's a really bad-ass pose.  People like to relate to stuff more than they like to look at people/animals posing: example, example, example). 

You can maintain that same level of skill, and even that same disregard for background or minute detail, but when your gallery is just a bunch of people/animal people/creatures like "I'm grabbing my ass," "I'm winking at the camera," "I'm standing here artfully," then they're incredibly forgettable.  If that's what your client wants, that's what your client wants, but, you stand out by being _relatable_ much easier than you stand out by focusing on style. 

This is stumbling into the realm of opinion but this very well rendered piece by Whitespiritwolf, while it is certainly eye-candy, is nothing more.  I linked it because I went through my favorites to find a really well-done piece and forgot I ever saw it before, and it's not even a month old.  But those sketches I linked from Vivisection Bob?  Shit, I saw those forever ago and knew to go straight TO them.  They have personality, they tell a story, they stand out.  They are rendered with a good level of skill, but they're just sketches.   This girl posing is well drawn, well colored, well lit, but in the end, I hardly remember it and I'm not going back to her (it's a good drawing, though, nothing bad on the artist).   By contrast, if you go look through Spookaboo's gallery you'll find things like this and this and they're not masterfully rendered, they're robust with personality.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 28, 2012)

Hipster, you kinda hit the big problem with the fandom, and similar fandoms (like anime) in general.
People are interested in doing cheesecake or trying to show how many textures/brush strokes they use but forget that characters should be telling a story. Not to say I'm guilty free or anyone else, but when you have more of that, than story telling ...you get lost unless your art is so fantastic you have a distinctive style that people remember. 

It's one of the reasons when people try to find an artist the descriptions given for art is usually vague as hell.



XoPachi said:


> ...Honestly, if you're uploading finished products, I would think you would want watchers. To me, that's like telling a YouTuber to not want an audience to watch their content. That's just me though.



The reason people tell others to stop caring about watches is because people think they're Jan on the Brady Bunch and keep whining about "Marsha Marsha Marsha!" More often than not more posts are spent on whining than...working on some damn art. It's like FFS knuckle down and work dude. People get turned off by seeing woe is me, not enough watchers. 

If some asshole on youtube kept posting videos whining about people not watching them, who the fuck would watch? You post more whining than art, then get your priorities in line. Rough stuff to tell? Yeah but shit let's keep it real. 

It's extremely rare for a good artist to complain about this. I remember ONE artist that came here a few years back who was attending Ringling who did. She was actually pretty polite about it. The other reason is artists that are better have shown their passion overrides it all. They're going to do what it takes to get better and eventually get noticed. Expanding out to other sites and joining communities. 

In a community like this where other artists had jumped in earlier in the game and may not be as good as another artist may get more commissions if they meet their deadlines or were a bit more social where they get community support. However, as the site grows it's just gonna happen where there's going to be a wall and you need to stand out and deliver a product that 3000 other intermediate level artists are not providing. 

The problem is people don't want to hear the more tested way, because... well that takes effort...and a lot of it.


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## Zoetrope (Nov 28, 2012)

Lhune said:


> Not really; I'd say *productivity* gets you watchers, not just churning out as much work as you can. I don't know about you, but I tend to get a bit tired with an artist's work if it's just sketches over and over. Unless they are pretty damn awesome sketches. But then you're already good and don't need to worry about watchers.



Experience on this site has dictated otherwise.  :/ Though I am a tad cynical. From what I have observed, watches on FA tends to be either A) Porn or B) Quick and Sloppy production. Quality hardly ever comes into play. I could bring up the sort of artists I'm talking about, but I think that might be callout, they just have a lot of followers for no other reason then they quickly produce furry pictures.


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## Taralack (Nov 28, 2012)

Zoetrope said:


> Experience on this site has dictated otherwise.  :/ Though I am a tad cynical. From what I have observed, watches on FA tends to be either A) Porn or B) Quick and Sloppy production. Quality hardly ever comes into play. I could bring up the sort of artists I'm talking about, but I think that might be callout, they just have a lot of followers for no other reason then they quickly produce furry pictures.



Yes, I agree with this. It's fine if you're uploading a fuckton of art because they're all commissions, but if it's all your own work then then you should be focussing on expanding your boundaries rather than making the same damn thing 100 times.


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## Venu.Shade (Nov 29, 2012)

I had actually stopped paying attention to this thread a few days ago.. and all of a sudden there are a shit-ton more responses Oo

Also, some people might misunderstand the meaning of my thread. I only posted it to get people's opinions. Not for me to be told my art is second rate, nor to be given ass-pats. I am not accusing any one person of either but I just want that to be known.

@hipstercoyote:

My signature I need to rework. I just haven't gotten around to it because I don't use the forums in a way where I expect people to be checking out my signature at all. I just kinda put it like that for "shits-n-giggles" to play around.. it's not even my proper commission sheet anymore. I have all of my prices and examples in a journal instead in a very neat and organized layout. I also have added a TOS to the bottom of said journal.

I have put my artwork on Weasyl, SoFurry, and occasionally I will mention it on FaceBook or Twitter. I have a DeviantArt but I no longer use it other than to keep up with some comic artists because most of the childish drama is not worth my time on that site. I am also planning on making a banner ad for FA and have it up for a month or two once I get some money tucked aside.

I have also drawn quite a bit of Pokemon fan art in a way of putting the characters into my own style which did draw in some different people into the pool of watchers I now currently have. I have contemplated drawing MLP fanart as well but I have been hesitant since there is just so much of it.

@Toraneko:

Like i mentioned above with making a banner ad for FA I will likely do something similar for my signature on the forums to be consistent. I have studied graphic design a bit and I will admit my old price sheet was VERY unprofessional.

@Zeotrope:

on the contrary, sure massive amounts of art will get watchers.. but giving them full paintings can too, I mean, just look at FireFeathers!

@mapdark:

All of those "generics" you speak of were mostly other people's characters.. so take it up with them. as for the Pokemon I was merely practicing turning them from super toony things into semi-realistic ones in my own style, they weren't meant to be very individualistic at the time.

@recel:

I am drawing to draw, and that's because I love it, it's my escape, and it makes me feel better at the end of the day if I was able to complete a piece of work or two, or just have a pile of sketches. But at this point in my life I need the cash too. I no longer have a job and I am stuck at home taking care of my mother, unable to look for a new one because of that so any cash I can get is a godsend.

@Lhune:

as you said, any new watcher could be a potential client. That is (unfortunately) how I have to think right now... and I HATE thinking that way. I want people to like my art and watch me for that reason, or because we're friends.. not because they're art whores or something of the like.

@Tiamat:

I am trying to improve, and right now I've been improving faster in the traditional department more than digital. This is why I have been experimenting privately on ways to do cell and gradient shading and some back ground work. I'm even selling cheap spots for a group picture and have 4 of the 10 sold definitely. I have also been very critical of my own stuff and just not posting it because I don't think it's good enough.

@Arshes Nei:

Like I said above, I am trying to get better, albeit privately, but i am trying. I hate seeing woe-is-me posts and i hate complaining and apologizing.

@Zoetrope:

I know I already addressed something you already said but yes, I know of some artists that you are talking about.. they only have watchers because they pump stuff out really fast despite them complaining about every little thing in their life, begging for commissions and money and ass-pats and everything like it. They don't even know the difference between a neck and an ankle if it bit their backside. Yet their watchers pretty much worship them and harass and attack anyone who speaks critically of said person, of which I have been a victim.


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## Recel (Nov 29, 2012)

XoPachi said:


> ...Honestly, if you're uploading finished products, I would think you would want watchers. To me, that's like telling a YouTuber to not want an audience to watch their content. That's just me though.



Care is a bit too strong word for what I meant I guess.


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## Zoetrope (Nov 29, 2012)

DarknessFlame said:


> @Zoetrope:
> 
> I know I already addressed something you already said but yes, I know of some artists that you are talking about.. they only have watchers because they pump stuff out really fast despite them complaining about every little thing in their life, begging for commissions and money and ass-pats and everything like it. They don't even know the difference between a neck and an ankle if it bit their backside. Yet their watchers pretty much worship them and harass and attack anyone who speaks critically of said person, of which I have been a victim.



That's pretty much the people I'm talking about, and so many 'watchers' (general FA populace) just eat that up in droves. I'm not saying a fine piece of art isn't appreciated, on the contrary, I know a really nice image can get lots of favs and watches, but it is gradual. If you want immediate watches and lots of them I think your best bet on FA is to mass produce drivel. Same pose over and over and over again and use bright glowing colours.


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## mapdark (Nov 29, 2012)

Zoetrope said:


> That's pretty much the people I'm talking about, and so many 'watchers' (general FA populace) just eat that up in droves. I'm not saying a fine piece of art isn't appreciated, on the contrary, I know a really nice image can get lots of favs and watches, but it is gradual. If you want immediate watches and lots of them I think your best bet on FA is to mass produce drivel. Same pose over and over and over again and use bright glowing colours.



HEY! Don't diss bright glowy colours! 
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9114497/

They're my thing 

But yeah , some people who gained notoriety within the fandom did it often by mass-producing cookie-cutter crap.

Won't call out names but I'm sure that everybody knows who I'm talking about when I say Ms. All-my-drawings-have-the-same-face-and-expression-and-my-last-name-is-the-product-of-photons.

She's pretty much a prime example of pumping out the same things over and over and over


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## Venu.Shade (Nov 29, 2012)

yea. the person who sent their "lackies" after me, she Does do decent organic scenery, but her attitude around anything involving constructive criticism, no matter how nicely worded or anything she takes as an insult to her "perfection". all i will say is her username reminds me of Asiago cheese......

But yea. I do enjoy bright glowing colors and everything of the like.. but I've been trying to avoid pumping out the same thing over and over, its why I'm trying to have an even amount of traditional and digital work and different poses and everything in my gallery, though I have been working faster lately and I've been scaring myself... I mean I finished a reference sheet for someone in 8 hours.. and that got me over 70 dollars. (it would've been double if I didn't have a sale right now) but it freaked me out that I got it done so fast with the commissioner's approval that it had been done correctly


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## RTDragon (Nov 29, 2012)

Actually for me considering i've recently earned quite a bit of watchers by doing livestreams drawing other people characters practicing. Considering i just finished a few days ago doing livestream busts for watchers. Mostly a lot of my artwork are sketchdumps which are posted in scraps near the end of each month. Considering i don't even do commissions at all. I mostly just draw as well as experiment. And said artist, i think i can guess who considering it reminds me of a tumblr post on artist confessions about that.


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## Venu.Shade (Nov 29, 2012)

yes, I have done a few streams now and again, unfortunately my computer isn't the best so it can't handle Livestream so I mostly use join.me which is still an ok way of streaming for artwork purposes. I even gained about 6 watchers in one of my mid-day streams.

I've also noticed I gain more watchers from streaming mid-day and posting artwork around dinner time on the east coast.


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## Venu.Shade (Dec 4, 2012)

Just as a heads up for anyone that posted on this thread, I have taken your advice, thought it over, and have started working.

I have changed my signature here to my advertisement which leads to my own FA page.

I am also doing a mass group picture which has a background and I will be shading the entire thing with soft shading.

I have started posting on my DeviantArt again, and I am keeping it, my Weasyl, and SoFurry up to date as best I can.

I have also sent my ad in to FA and Dragoneer has approved it, I have paid for one month, and if I get more commissions I will be sending it in (after updating it) for a 6 month advertisement run if I have the money, if not, it will just be a month at a time.

I would like to thank everyone for their advice and their not so sugar coated words. It means a lot to get proper advice from other artists that don't hand out ass-pats.


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## Tiamat (Dec 4, 2012)

I would make one more suggestion. If you want to improve fast and get honest feedback from pros and soon to be pros...
then join these forums: http://conceptart.org/forums/forum.php

You will find no ass-pats there.


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## Venu.Shade (Dec 4, 2012)

thanks a bunch~


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## FireFeathers (Dec 15, 2012)

mapdark said:


> Won't call out names but I'm sure that everybody knows who I'm talking about when I say Ms. All-my-drawings-have-the-same-face-and-expression-and-my-last-name-is-the-product-of-photons.




I don't, and now it's gonna pester the hell out of me till I find out.  

It's not watchers that don't matter, it's pageviews, which mean utterly dick-nothing.  Watchers are your audience  your direct, potential customer base.  But yeah, focusing just on that for art shouldn't be the most important thing, but if you're making a living on that connection, then it's imperative to keep in mind.


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## reedman (Jan 7, 2013)

Try friending an FOA (Follower Of All)

They tend to be following a lot of people and A LOT of people go to their pages for who to watch.


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