# well fuck



## Mr Meatballs (Mar 12, 2011)

CoD:Black Ops is now the #1 selling game of all time.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/11/call-of-duty-black-ops-is-the-best-selling-game-in-history/
Someone tell me this is a bizarre nightmare world where terrible done to death  shit sells and I'm going to wake up soon.


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## Hiskkvhiss (Mar 12, 2011)

Most People tend to play games that require no skill. Every Halo player knows this...


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## dinosaurdammit (Mar 12, 2011)

Sadly no. Games will continue to be made like this if people are willing to buy them. So far people are buying them so more will be made. Notice guitar hero and its brother dj hero and rock band all got canceled because of a small drop in profits. They rush to make more of the same game and end up flogging a dead horse until sales drop or something more profitable comes along.


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## Mr Meatballs (Mar 12, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Sadly no. Games will continue to be made like this if people are willing to buy them. So far people are buying them so more will be made. Notice guitar hero and its brother dj hero and rock band all got canceled because of a small drop in profits. They rush to make more of the same game and end up flogging a dead horse until sales drop or something more profitable comes along.


 Coming soon: Justin Bieber: the video game.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 12, 2011)

Its a decent multiplayer experience well suited to a casual FPS fan who wants to go online shoot some friends and then talk to them about it the next day at work or at school. I have no problem with this, the reason why it is successful is that it targeted a key audience who does not want nor expect much, but only wants to kill a couple hours every now and again.

Of course there are rabid fans but you can say the same for any genre.


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## Pine (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm guilty.

I saw a lot of my friends play it and it looked fun, but I was kind of disappointed when I played it. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun game, but it requires no skill whatsoever compared to other FPS games I've played in the past. Every match is pretty much "Herp derp I'm so skilled because I can spray ak74u and throw random grenades!"

I like it, but I'm not getting moist over it. It'll most likely be the only CoD game that I buy.


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## Mr Meatballs (Mar 12, 2011)

I wanna go back to the 80s.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 12, 2011)

This is what you get if you go back to the 80's

and I did not even get into the winterwear and fitness gear, hair metal bands and more.


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## Mr Meatballs (Mar 12, 2011)

The Drunken Ace said:


> This is what you get if you go back to the 80's
> 
> and I did not even get into the winterwear and fitness gear, hair metal bands and more.


 totally worth it.


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## Schwimmwagen (Mar 12, 2011)

I won't deny that COD is a very successful mainstream game and it is indeed fun to play, but it's such a bad apple. Lots of games developers that were once good are now trying to be just like COD with every single game they make and everyone follows suit, ruining the games. Activision are fucking _monsters._ If you look at their ways of doing business and trying to affect the business of others, you'd agree that I needn't say more. COD itself has a magnet in it that attracts dumbasses that also affect the other games coming out. Look at the fans of games that have been following said games for years and loving every bit of it. The internet has given a voice to said dumbasses who end up making these games become dumbed-down and much easier and simpler to play even in the higher "skill" levels, example: the Killing Floor forums are flooded with morons asking to make the game easier in the higher difficulties, *the game has lower difficulties for a fucking reason.* They do this because the older games were too much for the brain cell they share between each other so the developers who were successful enough with the older versions of the games with their current fans paying up, thought that the fans were the dumbasses who request oversimplification so they make these changes to their games to protect the sales. These dumbasses stay with the game only for a very short time before they move to the next game where they will also demand simplification. 

Activision, CoD and absolute fucktards who cannot grasp the fact that different games are different to each other in terms of objectives, complexity, features, story and genre and not just graphics have ruined gaming entirely.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 12, 2011)

So what you are saying is companies should not make what is in demand and produce products that only appeal to a fewer elite when that is less profitable in the long run? Just because a game sells better then one you like does not make it worse or better, it means it appeals to more people. That is it that is all. 

The same argument can be used for music, what is popular is what appeals to more people for whatever reason at that time, and lighter easier to handle material (music or games) is more appealing for the masses then deep, soul-stirring or gripping experiences.


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## Aden (Mar 12, 2011)

Things that are popular might not be the apexes of artistic creativity and depth. Film at 11.


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## SirRob (Mar 12, 2011)

Are they sure about that? It beat Tetris?


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## Daisy La Liebre (Mar 12, 2011)

Mr Meatballs said:


> Coming soon: Justin Bieber: the video game.


 
The sad thing is they'll probably make a Singstar or Rock Band game for that.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 12, 2011)

Jared said:


> The sad thing is they'll probably make a Singstar or Rock Band game for that.


 Whats wrong with that?

Some tweenage girl can go swoon over this generation's non-threatening singing boy like usual, but now in a new format.

People never stop complaining about things that have been happening to every generation, now it just happens on new formats.


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## TwilightV (Mar 12, 2011)

I didn't buy it. :V

Edit: Also, Hell yeah 80'splz! 8D


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## Schwimmwagen (Mar 12, 2011)

The Drunken Ace said:


> So what you are saying is companies should not make what is in demand and produce products that only appeal to a fewer elite when that is less profitable in the long run? Just because a game sells better then one you like does not make it worse or better, it means it appeals to more people. That is it that is all.


 
That's not exactly my point, what I want to see is games keep advancing in terms of complexity and make it quickly accessible by e.g. providing tips as you play along and then building up the skill to really play the game rather than what they're doing now - dumbing down games as much as possible so anyone can be top-notch if they can do the simplest of movement, shooting and spotting rather than really thinking. 

One game I play called Red Orchestra: Ostfront is very complex, provides lengthy games there's lots of stuff to learn and tricks to do that please the fewer elite very, very much but the casual players can't bring themselves into the game because they don't play games that often (and this has been justified, RO:O is very unforgiving). There is another game called Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad coming out later this year that keeps all the complexity from RO:O but what it will do is give the game some paddling-pool levels so new casual players can quickly understand how the important parts of the game work and then they won't be deterred by the complexity of the full game - instead, they will be able to tune themselves in and be able to ride with this complexity and enjoy a _real _game. 

The problem with COD is that it is extremely dumbed down and accessible. It's good that it's accessible, but it's bad that it's dumbed down. A really good game is complex, yet accessible for those of all skill levels. They will have to vastly adjust to the new game but the game will help them to do so instead of just being a game that takes very little thought and understanding and logic to hop into. COD is good for the casual market because it is accessible, yet it really bloody well should require players to actually think when they're playing it. Because of all the success it's brought for itself by selling to a vast majority of customers who don't really give a shit about games, it's caused so many companies to try and compete by assuming that people playing games these days just want to spend 20 mins or so randomly throwing bullets at people and seeing pretty explosions as they do so, rather than making a game that people would really love to stick with for long amounts of time and _really_ enjoy and appreciate.

See, it's Activision and COD making everybody want to make money and games anymore. Pretty much everyone that gets hired these days are just capable of getting shit done faster rather than those who are really passionate about games and the alternate realities they provide and want to see them become really advanced in terms of complexity rather than holding shitty bunny-hopping and spraying K/D ratio-building gameplay.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 12, 2011)

You are missing the point, most people want to NOT think when playing video games, like Telivision or movies most like to use it as an excuse to not thing, relax and do something simple. 

You want games that make you think and those are not selling better then the ones most people like, and that upsets you because your preference will never be popular as most people do not have the time nor urge to dedicate themselves mentally to a source of casual recreation. 

Most people do not require depth and emotional intensity in games, which is fine, if anything the more in depth and complex games get all to frequently used as ways to hide from or escape from life. 

Which is completely normal.


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## Schwimmwagen (Mar 12, 2011)

The Drunken Ace said:


> You are missing the point, most people want to NOT think when playing video games, like Telivision or movies most like to use it as an excuse to not thing, relax and do something simple.
> 
> You want games that make you think and those are not selling better then the ones most people like, and that upsets you because your preference will never be popular as most people do not have the time nor urge to dedicate themselves mentally to a source of casual recreation.
> 
> ...



I'm happy for a *balanced *mix of both casual games and complex, deeper games. What I _don't_ want is the current imbalance we have right now, where the majority of games are being made with the intent of dumbed down and made easy thus abandoning the depth it was so capable of or straying away from their roots and abandoning their old fanbase that brought them to success in the first place. I'm happy for games like COD to exist, but what I really hate about COD is the way it exploits its customers. COD games come out every November and come with overpriced map packs (look at the old-fashioned way of free updates and community content support) and then next year, you'll be paying full price for the next game and its mappacks making last year's shelling out a waste. And look at the "improvements" provided by Black Ops - the balance changes could have been easily made in a single update which comes with a few lines of code that most people would've given out for free. Take a look at the mappack stunt for BO as well... You had to pay for a bunch of maps and they were already on the disc! There is also that one fiasco about Bobby Kotick demanding that the UK price for games to be raised to a whopping Â£70 and also other stories which cause trouble like this.

And what evidence do you have that games that make you think are not selling better? There's a lot of raving for the simulation-level shooter RO:HoS and media types like PCGamer are betting heavily that this game will beat the casual market *because it provides the accessibility and the complexity which has been very well-received. *Many people are looking forward to it. And how long have you been playing games? My preference was popular with gamers for a very long time and yes nowadays games are attracting a mainstream audience but the problem is, _there is no fucking balance. 

_People who actually _like_ games want to see games with depth and complexity _as well as_ some casual titles to please the mainstream audience. *BALANCE.* We're currently dominated by casual dumbed-down games and do you have any idea of how much stress this is causing both developers and long-term consumers? What people like me want is a few new complex games to be made and be standing beside the AAA mainstream titles of today.


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## Rouz (Mar 12, 2011)

SirRob said:


> Are they sure about that? It beat Tetris?



Can one even really count Tetris, its been around since th 80's and has been on about every single platform.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Mar 12, 2011)

Mr Meatballs said:


> CoD:Black Ops is now the #1 selling game of all time.
> http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/11/call-of-duty-black-ops-is-the-best-selling-game-in-history/
> Someone tell me this is a bizarre nightmare world where terrible done to death  shit sells and I'm going to wake up soon.


Wow, nice to finally see someone sharing my opinion for that game


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## Runefox (Mar 12, 2011)

ITT: OP complains about CoDBLOPS selling well despite being not much more than an expansion pack to IW's MW2 (much like CoD:WAW was to CoD4). People bitch about how it really is a good game. People continue to buy trash. Game industry devolves into ActiBlizzard pumping out shitty $60 expansion packs to successful titles until no longer profitable (this is literally what their business plan is). Continues to profit from the millions of WoW players who are addicted beyond reproach and continue to pay $15/month plus $80 for the collector's editions of every full-priced expansion pack released.


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## SirRob (Mar 12, 2011)

Rouz said:


> Can one even really count Tetris, its been around since th 80's and has been on about every single platform.


Why wouldn't you be able to count Tetris? It's a videogame, isn't it? But if you don't want to count that, Super Mario Bros. has sold over 40 million units. I'd be surprised if Black Ops really has sold that much.


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## Rouz (Mar 12, 2011)

SirRob said:


> Why wouldn't you be able to count Tetris? It's a videogame, isn't it? But if you don't want to count that, Super Mario Bros. has sold over 40 million units. I'd be surprised if Black Ops really has sold that much.


 

I wouldn't doubt Tetris being the number one of all time. It is a game. It's been on every single platform. I'm just trying to say it would be hard to count of even round since the 80's the amount of Tetris cartridges shipped or made. I'm sure it can be done, but it'd be a lot of blocks.



Gibby said:


> I'm happy for a *balanced *mix of both casual games and complex, deeper games. What I _don't_ want is the current imbalance we have right now, where the majority of games are being made with the intent of dumbed down and made easy thus abandoning the depth it was so capable of or straying away from their roots and abandoning their old fanbase that brought them to success in the first place. I'm happy for games like COD to exist, but what I really hate about COD is the way it exploits its customers. COD games come out every November and come with overpriced map packs (look at the old-fashioned way of free updates and community content support) and then next year, you'll be paying full price for the next game and its mappacks making last year's shelling out a waste. And look at the "improvements" provided by Black Ops - the balance changes could have been easily made in a single update which comes with a few lines of code that most people would've given out for free. Take a look at the mappack stunt for BO as well... You had to pay for a bunch of maps and they were already on the disc! There is also that one fiasco about Bobby Kotick demanding that the UK price for games to be raised to a whopping Â£70 and also other stories which cause trouble like this.
> 
> And what evidence do you have that games that make you think are not selling better? There's a lot of raving for the simulation-level shooter RO:HoS and media types like PCGamer are betting heavily that this game will beat the casual market *because it provides the accessibility and the complexity which has been very well-received. *Many people are looking forward to it. And how long have you been playing games? My preference was popular with gamers for a very long time and yes nowadays games are attracting a mainstream audience but the problem is, _there is no fucking balance.
> 
> _People who actually _like_ games want to see games with depth and complexity _as well as_ some casual titles to please the mainstream audience. *BALANCE.* We're currently dominated by casual dumbed-down games and do you have any idea of how much stress this is causing both developers and long-term consumers? What people like me want is a few new complex games to be made and be standing beside the AAA mainstream titles of today.



Depth and complexity require time and involvement.  I see where you are coming from Gibby. 
One point I don't know if it is valid or not is people who invest themselves in those complex game don't go out and buy many other games.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 12, 2011)

Gibby said:


> I'm happy for a *balanced *mix of both casual games and complex, deeper games. What I _don't_ want is the current imbalance we have right now, where the majority of games are being made with the intent of dumbed down and made easy thus abandoning the depth it was so capable of or straying away from their roots and abandoning their old fanbase that brought them to success in the first place. I'm happy for games like COD to exist, but what I really hate about COD is the way it exploits its customers. COD games come out every November and come with overpriced map packs (look at the old-fashioned way of free updates and community content support) and then next year, you'll be paying full price for the next game and its mappacks making last year's shelling out a waste. And look at the "improvements" provided by Black Ops - the balance changes could have been easily made in a single update which comes with a few lines of code that most people would've given out for free. Take a look at the mappack stunt for BO as well... You had to pay for a bunch of maps and they were already on the disc! There is also that one fiasco about Bobby Kotick demanding that the UK price for games to be raised to a whopping Â£70 and also other stories which cause trouble like this.
> 
> And what evidence do you have that games that make you think are not selling better? There's a lot of raving for the simulation-level shooter RO:HoS and media types like PCGamer are betting heavily that this game will beat the casual market *because it provides the accessibility and the complexity which has been very well-received. *Many people are looking forward to it. And how long have you been playing games? My preference was popular with gamers for a very long time and yes nowadays games are attracting a mainstream audience but the problem is, _there is no fucking balance.
> 
> _People who actually _like_ games want to see games with depth and complexity _as well as_ some casual titles to please the mainstream audience. *BALANCE.* We're currently dominated by casual dumbed-down games and do you have any idea of how much stress this is causing both developers and long-term consumers? What people like me want is a few new complex games to be made and be standing beside the AAA mainstream titles of today.


 Read about the appeal of simplicity in recreation. Do some research about and target markets behind the games and learn about how they are engineered to appeal and why some games sell better then others based on marketing and task-reward reflex, then you would understand. I do not wish to waste my time on somone uninformed.


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## SubiDooTheBlueHusky (Mar 13, 2011)

Mr Meatballs said:


> CoD:Black Ops is now the #1 selling game of all time.
> http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/11/call-of-duty-black-ops-is-the-best-selling-game-in-history/
> Someone tell me this is a bizarre nightmare world where terrible done to death  shit sells and I'm going to wake up soon.


 FACEPAW!
good title, I didn't get Black Ops the series comes out with the same stupid fuckin game each year, the series has been fucked loose and will soon die.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 13, 2011)

its the CoD series. Not the Black-ops series. Also: if people buy it they will make it. Supply and demand.

Kind of like how they made way to many "Scary movies"


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## Commiecomrade (Mar 13, 2011)

Anyone remember when you could just drop in your CD of Call of Duty: United Offensive, and get in a Tiger tank in the fields of Kiev for some great fun? How about scaling the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc, ambushing the patrol on the outskirts of Foy, falling out of a disintegrating plane, or, hell, even the entire first mission of the first game? I remember those vividly.

Ah, early 2000's. I miss you so.


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## Kesteh (Mar 13, 2011)

CoD MW2 and BLOPS are among the few games where I see people are able to snipe with shotguns.
Don't tell me it's a good game.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 13, 2011)

Kesteh said:


> CoD MW2 and BLOPS are among the few games where I see people are able to snipe with shotguns.
> Don't tell me it's a good game.


  Funny thing slugs can be accurate up to 150+ Meters on a stranded barrel length. Enough to hit a target smaller then a watermellon. With longer barrels it can be almost up to 250 meters. Shotguns being "Spray-cannons" is not always true.


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## Schwimmwagen (Mar 13, 2011)

Rouz said:


> Depth and complexity require time and involvement.  I see where you are coming from Gibby.
> One point I don't know if it is valid or not is people who invest themselves in those complex game don't go out and buy many other games.


 
Most of them do but probably not as often because of the majority of casual games in the market that they don't want to play - they're busy waiting for the rare titles that they actually like. If there were more of these complex games, you can bet that they'd be buying a lot of them.



The Drunken Ace said:


> Read about the appeal of simplicity in recreation. Do some research about and target markets behind the games and learn about how they are engineered to appeal and why some games sell better then others based on marketing and task-reward reflex, then you would understand. I do not wish to waste my time on somone uninformed.


 
Hence why I said that the simpler casual games should still be around in good measure...


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## Duality Jack (Mar 13, 2011)

Gibby said:


> \Hence why I said that the simpler casual games should still be around in good measure...


Well you gotta understand casual games will sell the best from now on, because casual gamers are the most common now.


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## Schwimmwagen (Mar 13, 2011)

The Drunken Ace said:


> Well you gotta understand casual games will sell the best from now on, because casual gamers are the most common now.


 
Yes I agree, that is true but it's a disappointing truth. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are getting a dumbing-down which upsets the original fanbase! There just needs to be some kind of increase in the non-casual games and hell, if they're made accessible, the casual gamers will gladly pick them up.


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## Duality Jack (Mar 13, 2011)

Gibby said:


> Yes I agree, that is true but it's a disappointing truth. Mass Effect and Dragon Age are getting a dumbing-down which upsets the original fanbase! There just needs to be some kind of increase in the non-casual games and hell, if they're made accessible, the casual gamers will gladly pick them up.


 Its just reality. every median becomes dumber with time.


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## Schwimmwagen (Mar 13, 2011)

The Drunken Ace said:


> Its just reality. every median becomes dumber with time.


 
I suppose. Look at today's TV and the music industry. :/


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## Duality Jack (Mar 13, 2011)

Gibby said:


> I suppose. Look at today's TV and the music industry. :/


The written word.


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