# "In a Million Years" Prevention and Preservation



## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Yesterday, completely by chance of thought, I found out that a certain alligator species is dangerously near extinction. Now who gives a damn about me figuring stuff out right? Needless to say, this led to some research (I sure love my scaled animals) on the creature, and then onto a bigger topic: "Extinction".

Extinction is where the life of a species of animal completely disappears off the face of the planet Earth. This creature's bones and corpse may be left behind, but all chance of it living again is gone. In the whole universe, the infinite span of space, this exact creature does not exist. It will never exist ever again, unless technology grows to a point where we can pull that Pokemon bull@#*( and use fossils to recreate animal life.

But that's not the exact point here. There's a lot of bad stuff happening to what is supposed to be our "beloved" planet earth. Deforestation, pollution, (You've heard it all before, I know) and so on. Now you've been hearing about this your whole lives, but how long have you really lived? Some of this stuff has just barely started a couple hundred years ago, which is why for millions of years, things have been fine, until grubby human beings started to get their hands dirty drilling for oil in the arctic or using a pesticide which has killed off about 40-70% of the bee population in most countries. (And that's just two of the problems going on in the world, are you joking me?) If you want to read more about that stuff, go to Greenpeace.org and donate or volunteer, whatever you want!

The reason I'm speaking of this on this specific forum is because I love mother nature, I love this planet (excluding human society), and I'd hope that furries, you know, you guys, love this planet too. For its animals specifically, I'd hope. I mean, personally I love dragons, they don't even exist however. Dinosaurs don't exist anymore, but specific people love the hell out of those creatures. They will never see or meet those creatures their whole lives. In one thousand years, crocodiles could be dinosaurs. Whales could be too. I do personally believe that as a creature with a possible 100 year life span, capable hands, and intelligence, it is our duty to fix the problems our kin have caused.

In a million years, no one is going to remember specific names. No one's going to care about our politicians or music. We remember the dinosaurs for going extinct because of a meteor. We weren't there, but we have evidence. In a million years, our ancestors are going to look back at OUR TIME and they will not praise us. They'll curse us. We poisoned earth, the one and only earth, there is no other, and there's no fantasy world that exists after we die. Personally I played too many video games and watched too much anime, I somehow didn't think about the fact that THERE IS ONLY ONE EARTH. We have one hundred years to make a difference, lest we be forgotten. After death, we have no chance to make a difference. We have 100 years to do something, then supposedly an eternity of uselessness. No worth and no value in our souls. Do you want to regret being a lazy human being? We're the adults of this planet, we're "SUPPOSED" to be the adults of this planet, because we're capable and intelligent, yet currently our "adults" poison the hell out of it.

Currently, the point is, there is one earth, one mother nature, these animals we love don't exist anywhere else, and our kin have poisoned the living hell out of our beloved gaia. We have an infinite span of potential while we're alive, and an endless eternity of uselessness when we've passed. You HAVE the potential to at least try, doing nothing with such a blessing of intelligence and capability is irresponsible and lazy. Think of a world where we don't have to worry about so much bad stuff, and we can focus on what we love. A world without overpopulation and plenty of food. A world where technology is used specifically for ease and entertainment, not murder. A place where we don't have to worry about our beloved animals leaving, the soul cycle being disrupted, the air being hard to breath, and the oceans being dirty and unpleasant. Just by hoping and making excuses for yourself won't make that world come true, it IS possible, it IS a possible future timeline, it just needs to be worked for.

I really do believe, that no matter how many problems you have in your life, there is a bigger problem. You really have to make your life count. By giving it your all and trying your best to make a difference in the world, making things better, whatever happens or whatever comes next, you can rest assured that your home will be safe and pleasant for generations to come, yes?

So I ask the furry community, as a part of the human race, to not join our kin on this planet who are lazy and full of hope when they do nothing themselves. Donate, volunteer, make an effort, run for president, pick up trash, work with critically endangered animals, and discourage unhealthy actions. 

"We gotta make a difference."

[Edit: This post was mainly to make a point. We pretty much only live once for about a 100 years, when we die, we don't get another chance. I don't want regret, just wanted to inform people that might not know about their potential.

Also, please be polite, refrain from insults, and while it's okay to challenge people's opinions or beliefs, everyone is entitled to their own, so be respectful. Thank you. New posts are welcome.]


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## RTDragon (Aug 26, 2013)

You must be new to the forums while this post is a good one, I have a bad feeling this will derail quickly. though this would be better in the off topic section. Since there was a previous environmental thread here and it didn't end well.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Ahhh I thought about that, I didn't feel it was too off topic though because it involved animals, and it was more of a rave, I don't know. How do I move it? Should I just... Copy, delete it, then paste it in a new one?


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## RTDragon (Aug 26, 2013)

Well PM a mod to move it.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

I meet very few people anymore who  care about animals and the environment, and more and more people who act  like humans are these super flawless creatures who can do no wrong to  the environment as if things like deforestation are good things. Only the human race matters anymore.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Only the human race matters anymore.



Well, don't start to believe that's true. Our species has shown to be very sinful. It's a sad fact, but true, as really animals cannot do the bad things we commit to sometimes.


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## DrDingo (Aug 26, 2013)

What if, in a million years there were no humans left? It's an interesting concept to think about, although it'd take something HUGE to kill all humans. I wonder what our technology will be like that far in the future.


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## Kalmor (Aug 26, 2013)

This thread sounds horribly like a "bawww humans are baaaad" one, but I'll go with it.

Some aspects of what we do are bad, as you indeed pointed out in most of your OP. But also some of what we manage to do is amazing. Advances in medical science means that we can live decades longer than our ancestors, we can leave this planet and send probes to others, we have developed agriculture that can feed billions (if only it can be distributed properly, but that's a rant for another time). Just to name a few.



> the soul cycle being disrupted


Hm? Is this a religious thing or are you talking about the "solar" cycle. If the latter, humans have pretty much no effect on it.



Rael'oraz said:


> as really animals cannot do the bad things we commit to sometimes.


Sand tiger sharks, odd for being a shark that gives birth to live young, eat each-other in the womb. Is this "evil/sinful" or is it just natural? I'm going with the latter.

EDIT: Post 3000 woooo!


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 26, 2013)

I don't like to think about this sort of stuff. I get anxiety about how dystopian the future could be.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> This thread sounds horribly like a "bawww humans are baaaad" one, but I'll go with it.


 No, not all humans are bad. I don't think that. Humanity is a gift, we're intelligent and capable. I do believe there are plenty of good people, but apparently it's not the majority if the world isn't a great place. As for what we CAN do, a lot of humanity seems to only be interested in themselves. A lot of people are ignorant to things that companies do, or decisions made by the government, or all the bad stuff going on. What I was trying to get across in this thread is for people to make their lives worthwhile, and make a difference in the world, not just live self fulfilling lives. I was also hoping that people who hadn't thought about these topics would realize things, like I myself did...


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> I meet very few people anymore who  care about animals and the environment, and more and more people who act  like humans are these super flawless creatures who can do no wrong to  the environment as if things like deforestation are good things. Only the human race matters anymore.


Creationism and consumerism are like ammonia and bleach.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> This thread sounds horribly like a "bawww humans are baaaad" one, but I'll go with it.
> 
> Some aspects of what we do are bad, as you indeed pointed out in most of your OP. But also some of what we manage to do is amazing. Advances in medical science means that we can live decades longer than our ancestors, we can leave this planet and send probes to others, we have developed agriculture that can feed billions (if only it can be distributed properly, but that's a rant for another time). Just to name a few.
> 
> ...



No offense, but the human race is hated for a reason. It's not the scum of the earth that some may say, but we sure as heck aint the amazing flawless magical creatures others make us out to be either.

Everything you just mentioned costs the life of other creatures just to support ONE creature. Nothing you said benefits any creature other than our own species, which furthers my "people only care about their own species" point.

Actually, that is one of the many things humans try to ignore to make themselves seem flawless. The cars we drive and the cattle we slaughter have an effect on this.

Humans have a choice not to do bad things, sand tiger shark whelps don't. That opinion is invalid.


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## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

A million years from now, if we still exist, we'll be simulating entire planets with computers made up of lesser planets. We'll have stars chained and shackled with solar arrays, powering our massive machines as we work our way across the galaxy or perhaps even the universe, colonizing and reengineering and terraforming and breaking down everything in our path for fuel or living space or raw materials. A million years from now Earth will be, at best, a giant metropolis, and more likely a barren rock used only to house the oldest of our planet-wide supercomputers.

Also, there are between 100 and 400 billion stars in the Milky Way. And there's over 100 billion galaxies in the known universe, and that's just what we've been able to detect. Each one of those galaxies can hold billions to trillions of stars as well. And almost all of those stars have plants, including rocky ones. To say that "we're the only Earth" is ridiculous, as even if our planet is a mere one in a million, that'd leave 100,000,000,000,000,000 Earths floating out there somewhere, give or take. So no, I'm not really worried about a million years from now. I'm worried about the next twenty, the next hundred, the next two hundred.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Only the human race matters anymore.



No it doesn't...


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

TeenageAngst said:


> A million years from now, if we still exist, we'll be simulating entire planets with computers made up of lesser planets. We'll have stars chained and shackled with solar arrays, powering our massive machines as we work our way across the galaxy or perhaps even the universe, colonizing and reengineering and terraforming and breaking down everything in our path for fuel or living space or raw materials. A million years from now Earth will be, at best, a giant metropolis, and more likely a barren rock used only to house the oldest of our planet-wide supercomputers.
> 
> Also, there are between 100 and 400 billion stars in the Milky Way. And there's over 100 billion galaxies in the known universe, and that's just what we've been able to detect. Each one of those galaxies can hold billions to trillions of stars as well. And almost all of those stars have plants, including rocky ones. To say that "we're the only Earth" is ridiculous, as even if our planet is a mere one in a million, that'd leave 100,000,000,000,000,000 Earths floating out there somewhere, give or take. So no, I'm not really worried about a million years from now. I'm worried about the next twenty, the next hundred, the next two hundred.



In the SPAN of a million years, if nothing has changed, we'll still be inconsiderate and thoughtless creatures who only think of ourselves. The point is, things need to change when it comes to deforestation and pesticides. The article I wrote was only addressing concerns about the extinction of animals and threat to nature, but really, a lot of the stuff we eat is terrible for us, because food companies pass off a lot of super unhealthy crap as "okay", and no one seems to give a damn. Stuff like that really needs to change.

And yes, we really are the only earth. Crocodiles and panda bears don't exist, even if there is another planet that supports life. Specific genes for our plants and animals don't exist elsewhere, and neither does our culture. I called it earth because that's the given name, I was addressing it as an individual, not a rock with water and green stuff on it.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> No it doesn't...



*Sigh* Sometimes that is how it feels to me, though.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> *No offense, but the human race is hated for a reason.* It's not the scum of the earth that some may say, but we sure as heck aint the amazing flawless magical creatures others make us out to be either.



By who Aliens? can you read the thoughts of squirrels or something? Not everyone shares your self-loathing. 



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Everything you just mentioned costs the life of other creatures just to support ONE creature. Nothing you said benefits any creature other than our own species, which furthers my "people only care about their own species" point.
> 
> Actually, that is one of the many things humans try to ignore to make  themselves seem flawless. The cars we drive and the cattle we slaughter  have an effect on this.



Every animal in the world screws over another like that. Do you think Lions care about the Gazelle they constantly devour? How about the Beavers that dam up rivers?  



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Humans have a choice not to do bad things, sand tiger shark whelps don't. That opinion is invalid.



That's fucking ridiculous. Nothing I'm doing is bad, we do what we can to survive, just like an other animal.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> What if, in a million years there were no humans left? It's an interesting concept to think about, although it'd take something HUGE to kill all humans. I wonder what our technology will be like that far in the future.



It's very well possible we may not exist in the next one hundred years. Technology is advancing, sadly I'd like to say it only advances when it comes to comfort and entertainment, but in weapons as well. Hope this isn't scaring you, just telling the truth, someone could detonate nukes at given points all around the planet, that would completely wipe out life, almost like the dinosaurs. We at least would definitely be turned to dust.

"In a Million Years" is the name of an album released by Last Dinosaurs, who I got some inspiration from. Really, in a real million years, we probably still wouldn't exist as human beings due to evolution or us being wiped out.


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## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm just not that concerned I guess. Life itself is something of a myoma of chemistry, we're just the most successful specimen on this planet so it looks like we're destructive. Intelligent tigers or walruses or crocodiles would have done the same thing had they a fully developed cerebral cortex and thumbs. Heaven knows there's vastly superior races out there in the universe already, and if by sacrificing some parts of Earth we're able to transcend our planetary boundaries, I'd say it's an even trade. Especially if we can always come back later and fix it up for nostalgic purposes, something like a planet-wide zoo where we repopulate it with all the animals we killed off in our clamber to get into outer space.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> By who Aliens? can you read the thoughts of squirrels or something? Not everyone shares your self-loathing.



No, by other humans. As for "Self Loathing," I'm not just going to turn a blind eye to the awful things humans do.





PastryOfApathy said:


> Every animal in the world screws over another like that. Do you think Lions care about the Gazelle they constantly devour? How about the Beavers that dam up rivers?



Again, humans have the intelligence to better themselves. But many use our intelligence to serve ourselves only, with no regard to any other creature. Do we really need to expand throughout the world, build more unnecessary houses and buildings when there are many appartment buildings and expansion options inside a city that are available.

Also, not every animal is a carnivore.




PastryOfApathy said:


> That's fucking ridiculous. Nothing I'm doing is bad, we do what we can to survive, just like an other animal.



So trying to justify every awful thing the human race does isn't wrong? Misanthropy isn't about wanting humans to die out, it's about wanting them to better themselves. To come to their senses. To realize there are more important things than money and "human pride."



TeenageAngst said:


> I'm just not that concerned I guess. Life  itself is something of a myoma of chemistry, we're just the most  successful specimen on this planet so it looks like we're destructive.  Intelligent tigers or walruses or crocodiles would have done the same  thing had they a fully developed cerebral cortex and thumbs. Heaven  knows there's vastly superior races out there in the universe already,  and if by sacrificing some parts of Earth we're able to transcend our  planetary boundaries, I'd say it's an even trade. Especially if we can  always come back later and fix it up for nostalgic purposes, something  like a planet-wide zoo where we repopulate it with all the animals we  killed off in our clamber to get into outer space.



So because we are succesful that gives us the right to completely  disregard all other creatures and the environment. And you wonder why  humans are hated.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> By who Aliens? can you read the thoughts of squirrels or something? Not everyone shares your self-loathing.
> 
> Every animal in the world screws over another like that. Do you think Lions care about the Gazelle they constantly devour? How about the Beavers that dam up rivers?
> 
> That's fucking ridiculous. Nothing I'm doing is bad, we do what we can to survive, just like an other animal.



1. He meant many humans themselves hate our race. I don't agree that all of us are bad, but we're represented mightily by our heads, which are thoughtless companies and the government.

2. Yes, but it has all worked out in the ecosystem. When humans and technology came into play, we really fucked up their ecosystem. Animals do things based off instinct, we have greater intelligence, and therefore know the extent of our wrongdoing and righteousness.

3. Perhaps nothing you're doing is bad, but he was talking about when, for example, how Shell the gas company is drilling for oil in the arctic which is very threatening to the ecosystem there, and how a certain pesticide is threatening the bee population which pollinates our fruit flowers. I also do believe, no one deserves a reward just because they do nothing wrong. Making a difference and doing the right thing should deserve one...

Thank you for your opinions =)


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> 1. He meant many humans themselves hate our race. I don't agree that all of us are bad, but we're represented mightily by our heads, which are thoughtless companies and the government.
> 
> 2. Yes, but it has all worked out in the ecosystem. When humans and technology came into play, we really fucked up their ecosystem. Animals do things based off instinct, we have greater intelligence, and therefore know the extent of our wrongdoing and righteousness.
> 
> ...



I wish there were more people like you.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> No, by other humans. As for "Self Loathing," I'm not just going to turn a blind eye to the awful things humans do.



So why are you turning a blind eye to the terrible things animals do? 



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Again, humans have the intelligence to better themselves. But many use our intelligence to serve ourselves only, with no regard to any other creature.


Is that why we have government organizations dedicated to the preservation of wildlife? Is that why we spend so much time looking for cleaner means of energy? Obviously it's because we're "da evul hyooomens". 



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Do we really need to expand throughout the world, *build more unnecessary houses and buildings *when there are many appartment buildings and expansion options inside a city that are available.
> 
> Also, not every animal is a carnivore.



Unnecessary? What? I don't think you understand the size of the human population relative to everything else. Sure there are other animals with larger populations but none that require the same amount of space and resources as humans. We barely have enough adequate housing for everyone, we don't just build houses for shits and giggles. 

Also wasps. Wasps are dicks to everyone. But of course since they're not an "evul hyoomen" they must be pure or something. 




BennyBunnycorn said:


> So trying to justify every awful thing the human race does isn't wrong? Misanthropy isn't about wanting humans to die out, it's about wanting them to better themselves. To come to their senses. To realize there are more important things than money and "human pride."



I'm not justifying every horrible thing the human race has done, far from it. I'm simply saying you're a hippie with no sense of how the world works which is fine, just don't spot your ignorance at me.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> So why are you turning a blind eye to the terrible things animals do?



Animals are animals. Humans have a choice. What part of that don't you get?




PastryOfApathy said:


> Is that why we have government organizations dedicated to the preservation of wildlife? Is that why we spend so much time looking for cleaner means of energy? Obviously it's because we're "da evul hyooomens".



Not all humans are evil. But what is "The preservation of Wildlife," exactly? Do they actually help animals, or do they just hunt them? Do they actually protect animals, or is that just a myth?



PastryOfApathy said:


> Unnecessary? What? I don't think you understand the size of the human population relative to everything else. Sure there are other animals with larger populations but none that require the same amount of space and resources as humans. We barely have enough adequate housing for everyone, we don't just build houses for shits and giggles.



Please prove to me that we need a gujillion houses when many people can easily live in an apartment. 



PastryOfApathy said:


> Also wasps. Wasps are dicks to everyone. But of course since they're not an "evul hyoomen" they must be pure or something.



*Not all humans are evil.* But in all seriousness, you're just using examples of things animals do to make humans look oh-so perfect and non destructive.



PastryOfApathy said:


> I'm not justifying every horrible thing the human race has done, far from it. I'm simply saying you're a hippie with no sense of how the world works which is fine, just don't spot your ignorance at me.



I have doubt in my mind you actually know how the "world" works yourself.


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## Kalmor (Aug 26, 2013)

Humans are also animals, benny.


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## Ozriel (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Not all humans are evil. But what is "The preservation of Wildlife," exactly? Do they actually help animals, or do they just hunt them?



There are many, many organizations and things dedicated to the restoration of forests and the preservation of wildlife. The midwest is actually producing a lot of environmental based jobs that deal with land restoration to prevent dustbowl disasters. On the east coast, you have many programs dedicated to restoring wetlands, swamps, and cleaning up the waters. 

If you google them, they will come up. Otherwise this thread just reeks of self-loathing and laziness. If you focus on just the suffering of humanity and the planet as a whole, then that's all you'll see. You'll never focus on the good things because your mind is too busy lumping the good into the bad category as well.

it's best to become proactive in any program or environmental science clubs that deal with preservation and restoration


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> Humans are also animals, benny.







But how is that relevant?



Ozriel said:


> There are many, many organizations and things  dedicated to the restoration of forests and the preservation of  wildlife. The midwest is actually producing a lot of environmental based  jobs that deal with land restoration to prevent dustbowl disasters. On  the east coast, you have many programs dedicated to restoring wetlands,  swamps, and cleaning up the waters.
> 
> If you google them, they will come up. Otherwise this thread just reeks  of self-loathing and laziness. If you focus on just the suffering of  humanity and the planet as a whole, then that's all you'll see. You'll  never focus on the good things because your mind is too busy lumping the  good into the bad category as well.
> 
> it's best to become proactive in any program or environmental science clubs that deal with preservation and restoration



Huh, I've never heard of these groups. I should look them up.

To be honest, I don't dislike all humans, but I dislike many of the things humans do. Not just environmental, but economical as well as war based things.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> But what is "The preservation of Wildlife," exactly? Do they actually help animals, or do they just hunt them? Do they actually protect animals, or is that just a myth?


Please tell me you're joking. No. I actually refuse to believe you're doing anything other than joking. Don't answer that. You're joking. 



> Please prove to me that we need a gujillion houses when many people can easily live in an apartment.


If everyone were made to live in apartments, there would probably be an increase in overcrowding. You know animals fight for space too right?
That's essentially what would happen as well.


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## Kalmor (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> But how is that relevant?


Your comment about how "animals are animals, yet humans have a choice".


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Please tell me you're joking. No. I actually refuse to believe you're doing anything other than joking. Don't answer that. You're joking.



No, not really. Many "Programs" I've heard of are just glorified hunting programs that usually don't benefit animals or the environment in no actual way.



Willow said:


> If everyone were made to live in apartments, there would probably be an increase in overcrowding. You know animals fight for space too right?
> That's essentially what would happen as well.



So that gives us the right to over-breed an destroy every single non-human habitat on planet Earth? How many times do I have to say "Humans have a choice?"



Raptros said:


> Your comment about how "animals are animals, yet humans have a choice".



You do realize that humans are supposed to have intellect, right?


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> Humans are also animals, benny.



In my opinion, human beings shouldn't be considered animals. We're too different, we have intelligence and capability. We have much more choice than animals. Most animals live off of the instinct to eat and breed. We have much more power, too much, and our kind has affected them with this power. When we learn to keep to ourselves in terms of harm, human beings will be fine in my book.

We're all mortals on this planet, that's all. In a sense, it's like calling diamond a rock. "Yeah, it's durable, strong, and shiny, but it's still a rock".


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## Ozriel (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Huh, I've never heard of these groups. I should look them up.
> 
> To be honest, I don't dislike all humans, but I dislike many of the things humans do. Not just environmental, but economical as well as war based things.



...Seriously?!



Rael'oraz said:


> In my opinion, human beings shouldn't be considered animals. We're too different, we have intelligence and capability. We have much more choice than animals. Most animals live off of the instinct to eat and breed. We have much more power, too much, and our kind has affected them with this power. When we learn to keep to ourselves in terms of harm, human beings will be fine in my book.
> 
> We're all mortals on this planet, that's all. In a sense, it's like calling diamond a rock. "Yeah, it's durable, strong, and shiny, but it's still a rock".



The reason why people refrain from calling humans as one of the animal genus is to make ourselves superior than the "beasts" we claim to be better than. Our instincts are still there, it has just been lost for the sake of a higher capacity of thought, the ability for idealistic and abstract thought, and the ability to create tools with said inherited intelligence. That doesn't change the fact we are mammalian animals. 


We still have other base instincts, but it is right below the surface...as they say.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Animals are animals. Humans have a choice. What part of that don't you get?



That we don't necessarily have a choice either. We crave meat, we need meat in order to adequately feed the entire population. Just because you don't doesn't mean everyone else has to. 



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Not all humans are evil. But what is "The preservation of Wildlife," exactly? Do they actually help animals, or do they just hunt them? Do they actually protect animals, or is that just a myth?



You really are ignorant aren't you? Their are innumerable organizations with the explicit purpose of preserving wildlife in one way or the other. Just Google Wildlife conservation and you'll find thousands of organizations. 




BennyBunnycorn said:


> Please prove to me that we need a gujillion houses when many people can easily live in an apartment.


In India plenty of people die do to lack of housing. Places such as Detorit lack affordable housing causing many to become homeless, and lord knows how many other cases. And with the human population only growing, we're only gonna need more.




BennyBunnycorn said:


> But in all seriousness, you're just using examples of things humans do to make animals look oh-so perfect and non destructive.



Fix'd. 




BennyBunnycorn said:


> I have doubt in my mind you actually know how the "world" works yourself.


Coming from you, I'll take that with pride. This is why you should pay attention in school kids. Or else you'll make yourself look dumb on the internet.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> In my opinion, human beings shouldn't be considered animals. We're too different, we have intelligence and capability.


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> If everyone were made to live in apartments, there would probably be an increase in overcrowding. You know animals fight for space too right?
> That's essentially what would happen as well.



My British friend made a good point to me one day. "Build upward". If we just keep extending over forests and what not, we'll take animal homes and possible farmland. Hotels are nice because they put decades of rooms on different floors, and it works quite well. I get that we have our needs and what not, but we have something animals really don't have. We have science, the power to make things more efficient for us. We have intelligence, so that we do not need to fight over things. However, these are used in... Unfavorable ways sometimes.


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## RTDragon (Aug 26, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> There are many, many organizations and things dedicated to the restoration of forests and the preservation of wildlife. The midwest is actually producing a lot of environmental based jobs that deal with land restoration to prevent dustbowl disasters. On the east coast, you have many programs dedicated to restoring wetlands, swamps, and cleaning up the waters.
> 
> If you google them, they will come up. Otherwise this thread just reeks of self-loathing and laziness. If you focus on just the suffering of humanity and the planet as a whole, then that's all you'll see. You'll never focus on the good things because your mind is too busy lumping the good into the bad category as well.
> 
> it's best to become proactive in any program or environmental science clubs that deal with preservation and restoration



While we are on the subject there are also youtube channels related to this. One for example that actually has quite a bit of innovative with the preserve the environment and other things.

http://youtu.be/WVX9OcL2k-I
http://youtu.be/Krme85TPFrg

There's a lot more on that channel but these are a few examples.


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## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

> So because we are succesful that gives us the right to completely disregard all other creatures and the environment. And you wonder why humans are hated.



I mean, kinda yeah. You ever see any other animal even give the slightest shit about its environment? Most don't even care about themselves. I've heard of animals eating themselves to death for crap's sake. The fact we even hesitate to do things that would benefit ourselves for the sake of the environment or future generations automatically puts us on an unreachable ethical plateau above the rest of nature.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> The reason why people refrain from calling humans as one of the animal genus is to make ourselves superior than the "beasts" we claim to be better than. Our instincts are still there, it has just been lost for the sake of a higher capacity of thought, the ability for idealistic and abstract thought, and the ability to create tools with said inherited intelligence. That doesn't change the fact we are mammalian animals.
> 
> 
> We still have other base instincts, but it is right below the surface...as they say.



We are technically better than animals. We have more potential and capability. I do believe that a human life (if that human is a good and useful person) is worth much more than a fox or a dolphin. Not to mention for reasons like lifespan. However, I would gladly choose an innocent fox over a murderer. I mainly said that we shouldn't be considered animals because well, if you really care, reread my last post!


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> *In my opinion, human beings shouldn't be considered animals. We're too different, we have intelligence and capability. *



There goes all of your credibility. I had expected better.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

TeenageAngst said:


> I mean, kinda yeah. You ever see any other animal even give the slightest shit about its environment? Most don't even care about themselves. I've heard of animals eating themselves to death for crap's sake. The fact we even hesitate to do things that would benefit ourselves for the sake of the environment or future generations automatically puts us on an unreachable ethical plateau above the rest of nature.



Yes but animals don't really harm nature like we do. Earth has been fine for millions of years, when humans come to play, pollution, global warming, deforestation. I mean, come on, it's right in front of our eyes who the villain normally is. I agree that we're better than animals, however, I love animals and all creatures of nature, (Okay, fuck mosquitos), but we shouldn't place our comfort above animal lives, even if we do have more potential.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

You're an idiot, you know that Pastry? Humans DON'T need meat. Yes, we're omnivores. We're designed to eat meat. But not all humans absolutely need it. If you want to eat meat, fine. But don't feel you should force people who don't to do so just cause it's nature.

For every real organization, there's another fake organization that supposedly cares about animals, but doesn't.

We wouldn't need to build more houses and destroy more habitats if we didn't over-breed so much. But humans are OOOOOOH so important that we cannot cut back our breeding even just a weeeeeee bit or else the environment comes back.

Animals are not perfect. Yes, they do things that humans would consider are savage and evil. But they are minor compared to what humans can do. If you disagree, you're an idiot.

You're right. Humans are fucking gods! Forget about animals, they're just tools for us oh-so perfect humans to use. They mean jack shit. ONLY OUR FUCKING HUMAN RACE IS RELEVANT ON THIS GOD DAMN PLANET!!! Seriously, people like you who try to make the human race seem so much better than it really is only expose more examples of why we are so widely hated by many humans.


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## Kalmor (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> You do realize that humans are supposed to have intellect, right?


I'm not sure if that's an insult or a general point. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You seemed to claim that humans are different from animals since we have a choice/intelligence, yet as Ozriel said, that doesn't eliminate the fact that we're in the kingdom animalia.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> My British friend made a good point to me one day. "Build upward". If we just keep extending over forests and what not, we'll take animal homes and possible farmland. Hotels are nice because they put decades of rooms on different floors, and it works quite well.


But you forget that not only are hotels usually one room and rather small, but they can only hold a certain amount of people at a time. The Suite Life isn't very accurate. 



> We have science, the power to make things more efficient for us.


Efficiency doesn't solve overcrowding. 



> We have intelligence, so that we do not need to fight over things. However, these are used in... Unfavorable ways sometimes.


This doesn't even make any sense what the hell??


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> There goes all of your credibility. I had expected better.



I'm sorry, what did I say wrong? It's to my believe that while all things with a beating heart and conscious are mortal, and though we share many similarities with an animal like a dog, we're much too different to be them. Compared to, sure, but we're not animals anymore. When we were cavemen I do believe so, but not now...


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## Ozriel (Aug 26, 2013)

Until I get myself hammered, I am not going to post in this thread. I want to lower my intelligence by several IQ points. Right now, I am just getting a huge headache...


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> I'm sorry, what did I say wrong? It's to my believe that while all things with a beating heart and conscious are mortal, and though we share many similarities with an animal like a dog, we're much too different to be them. Compared to, sure, but we're not animals anymore. When we were cavemen I do believe so, but not now...


You never had a basic biology class, did you? Were you homeschooled, or were you sent to some religious school?


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> You're an idiot, you know that Pastry? Humans DON'T need meat. Yes, we're omnivores. We're designed to eat meat. But not all humans absolutely need it. If you want to eat meat, fine. But don't feel you should force people who don't to do so just cause it's nature.
> 
> For every real organization, there's another fake organization that supposedly cares about animals, but doesn't.
> 
> ...



And here it all comes out. I no longer care for whatever nonsense comes out of your mouth because I've already done what I've wanted to. Toodles!

P.S. You're now my new favorite member, can't wait to see you again.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> But you forget that not only are hotels usually one room and rather small, but they can only hold a certain amount of people at a time. The Suite Life isn't very accurate.
> 
> Efficiency doesn't solve overcrowding.
> 
> This doesn't even make any sense what the hell??



We'll build houses upwards, with larger rooms and what not. Still takes less space then on the ground. The sky is free, untouched game with plenty of room.
Efficiency may not, but cutting down on birth rate by creating laws to limit the amount of children someone may have (I personally think two maximum this day and age) will.
I meant, we have intelligence, we can solve things without fighting. We're not savages. But we sometimes fail to use it properly, and may resort to fighting.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> You're an idiot, you know that Pastry? Humans DON'T need meat. Yes, we're omnivores. We're designed to eat meat. But not all humans absolutely need it. If you want to eat meat, fine. But don't feel you should force people who don't to do so just cause it's nature.
> 
> For every real organization, there's another fake organization that supposedly cares about animals, but doesn't.
> 
> ...


I can't even pull out just one stupid quote because this entire post isan embarrassment.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> I'm not sure if that's an insult or a general point. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> You seemed to claim that humans are different from animals since we have a choice/intelligence, yet as Ozriel said, that doesn't eliminate the fact that we're in the kingdom animalia.



General point. We are animals, but as much as I dislike to admit it, we have intelligence far greater than what other animals do. We can choose to do great thing. But we can also choose to do catastrophic things as well. And often times the bad outweighs the good. Some people may hate humans now, but if we can overcome the seven deadly sins, then misanthropy would likely become redundant and abolish.



Willow said:


> I can't even pull out just one stupid quote because this entire post isan embarrassment.



I'm not being an idiot for understanding human flaws, but you guys are refusing to understand them.


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## RTDragon (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> You're an idiot, you know that Pastry? Humans DON'T need meat. Yes, we're omnivores. We're designed to eat meat. But not all humans absolutely need it. If you want to eat meat, fine. But don't feel you should force people who don't to do so just cause it's nature.
> 
> For every real organization, there's another fake organization that supposedly cares about animals, but doesn't.
> 
> ...




Why are you still posting in this thread then? It's clear that you hate this forum. (And i've have been seeing your visitor messages.) Seriously people have given you civil responses and your still sprouting out insults and flawed logic.

Seriously stop posting on this thread and cool off before you really make a fool of yourself.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> You never had a basic biology class, did you? Were you homeschooled, or were you sent to some religious school?



Gee uh... I've graduated high school. I know exactly the definition of the word animal, but it's how the word is used that I don't think we should be compared to. Saying we're just like a dog or wolf is incorrect, you know? I'm not going to limit my opinion to biology books.

And everyone, can we do without insults here?


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> We'll build houses upwards, with larger rooms and what not. Still takes less space then on the ground. The sky is free, untouched game with plenty of room.


I'm not an architect, but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work. 



> Efficiency may not, but cutting down on birth rate by creating laws to limit the amount of children someone may have (I personally think two maximum this day and age) will.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah no. We're not China. This wouldn't fly because what do you do if someone accidentally has three kids? Or four? Do you just kill them? Or put them up for adoption? Both options are terrible and stupid by the way and probably more inhumane than whatever you're trying to suggest. 



> I meant, we have intelligence, we can solve things without fighting. We're not savages. But we sometimes fail to use it properly, and may resort to fighting


Primates are intelligent and yet they still fight. Of course they don't have science but that's beside the point.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> Why are you still posting in this thread then? It's clear that you hate this forum. (And i've have been seeing your visitor messages.) Seriously people have given you civil responses and your still sprouting out insults and flawed logic.
> 
> Seriously stop posting on this thread and cool off before you really make a fool of yourself.



Apparently realizing human flaws and not ignoring every awful thing they does automatically makes someone an idiot. While supporting mass extinctions of animals and the over-breeding of the human race automatically makes someone a genius. Frankly, I think you guys are the ones being idiots.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah no. We're not China. This wouldn't fly because what do you do if someone accidentally has three kids? Or four? Do you just kill them? Or put them up for adoption? Both options are terrible and stupid by the way and probably more inhumane than whatever you're trying to suggest.


He actually brings up a valid point here. We can exterminate entire species for being a minor inconvenience and it's just shrugged off, but when somebody even mentions that we don't need to have so many offspring, they're pure evil.


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## Kalmor (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Apparently realizing human flaws and not ignoring every awful thing they does automatically makes someone an idiot. While supporting mass extinctions of animals and the over-breeding of the human race automatically makes someone a genius. Frankly, I think you guys are the ones being idiots.


Please stop with the flawed logic, falacies and insults.


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## RTDragon (Aug 26, 2013)

Nice work calling people in this thread idiots BBcorn. I'm sure that will end well for you, And your new on these forums as well. I would suggest you stop now.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> He actually brings up a valid point here. We can exterminate entire species for being a minor inconvenience and it's just shrugged off, but when somebody even mentions that we don't need to have so many offspring, they're pure evil.



The life of a human child is a lot more valuable than a cow. It's as simple as that.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Okay, let's stop calling each other idiots for a moment and try to talk about things calmly.

Why exactly are non-humans so worthless? Why is misanthropy such a bad thing when lots of things justify it? Why is realizing the flaws of the human race such a bad thing? How is supporting the destruction of creatures just so humans can over-breed a good thing? In all seriousness, why should the human race get away with so much of the things it does, and why are people evil/idiots for pointing those things out?


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> The life of a human child is a lot more valuable than a cow. It's as simple as that.


So quick to dismiss the very notion, it's a small wonder we're in such a sorry state of affairs.


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## Inpw (Aug 26, 2013)

Why all the Peta threads?


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> I'm not an architect, but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work.
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah no. We're not China. This wouldn't fly because what do you do if someone accidentally has three kids? Or four? Do you just kill them? Or put them up for adoption? Both options are terrible and stupid by the way and probably more inhumane than whatever you're trying to suggest.
> 
> Primates are intelligent and yet they still fight. Of course they don't have science but that's beside the point.



1. It could, technology is always advancing. It would just be larger hotels with sturdier floors and what not. How's it so hard to believe?
2. Um... It would just be enforced really strongly that you're not allowed to have more than one child per adult. Perhaps... I forget the word, making it so you can't breed anymore? Sounds cruel, but it's really not, think about it logically. It would be difficult currently, yes, but give it 30 years it would be quite easy and very efficient. If people don't want to be considerate of how things work, force needs to be taken into consideration.
3. Yes, but they're not on our level of intelligence. Plus things are harsher on them because they really do need to fight for food and for mating.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 26, 2013)

Accretion said:


> Why all the Peta threads?



With all due respect, PETA is a joke.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Okay, let's stop calling each other idiots for a moment and try to talk about things calmly.
> 
> Why exactly are non-humans so worthless? Why is misanthropy such a bad thing when lots of things justify it? Why is realizing the flaws of the human race such a bad thing? How is supporting the destruction of creatures just so humans can over-breed a good thing? In all seriousness, why should the human race get away with so much of the things it does, and why are people evil/idiots for pointing those things out?



Because religion. Because profit. Because badassery. Take your pick.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> He actually brings up a valid point here. We can exterminate entire species for being a minor inconvenience and it's just shrugged off, but when somebody even mentions that we don't need to have so many offspring, they're pure evil.


I dunno man, if you try to propose this sort of thing to women they might you know, get upset because you're trying to put more regulations on what they can and can't do with their vaginas. 

And I'd like to think in this day and age, we realize we hecked up really bad and killed a bunch of poor animals but that's why hunting laws exist. 



BennyBunnycorn said:


> Why exactly are non-humans so worthless? Why is misanthropy such a bad  thing when lots of things justify it? Why is realizing the flaws of the  human race such a bad thing? How is supporting the destruction of  creatures just so humans can over-breed a good thing? In all  seriousness, why should the human race get away with so much of the  things it does, and why are people evil/idiots for pointing those things  out?


The way you guys are going about it is so flawed that you can hardly be taken as serious. 
Especially when you ignore everyone else's reasons because you don't like them.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> So quick to dismiss the very notion, it's a small wonder we're in such a sorry state of affairs.



Yes, yes I am. What do cows do? Graze non-stop? Shit a lot? Occasionally moo until the day they die? 

What do humans do? We build massive cities from the ground up. We take control over the sky and fly like it's nothing We push the boundaries of science every day allowing us to do more and more every day! 

I mean it's pretty obvious which one is more valuable.


----------



## Kalmor (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> 1. It could, technology is always advancing. It would just be larger hotels with sturdier floors and what not. How's it so hard to believe?
> 2. Um... It would just be enforced really strongly that you're not allowed to have more than one child per adult. Perhaps... I forget the word, making it so you can't breed anymore? Sounds cruel, but it's really not, think about it logically. It would be difficult currently, yes, but give it 30 years it would be quite easy and very efficient. If people don't want to be considerate of how things work, force needs to be taken into consideration.
> 3. Yes, but they're not on our level of intelligence. Plus things are harsher on them because they really do need to fight for food and for mating.


2. How many more human rights do you want to violate with that plan?


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Yes, yes I am. What do cows do? Graze non-stop? Shit a lot? Occasionally moo until the day they die?
> 
> What do humans do? We build massive cities from the ground up. We take control over the sky and fly like it's nothing We push the boundaries of science every day allowing us to do more and more every day!
> 
> I mean it's pretty obvious which one is more valuable.


Not what I was talking about.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Not what I was talking about.



Then what the hell were you talking about?


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> 2. How many more human rights do you want to violate with that plan?



Sorry, my mistake. I didn't mean force, I meant laws would be put in affect AFTER VOTING. Basically, the laws would be agreed upon by the majority population of course... I'd just only hope that they know what's good for the future.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Raptros said:


> 2. How many more human rights do you want to violate with that plan?


BUT THINK OF DA AMINULZ



Rael'oraz said:


> 2. Um... It would just be enforced really strongly that you're not  allowed to have more than one child per adult. Perhaps... I forget the  word, making it so you can't breed anymore? Sounds cruel, but it's  really not, think about it logically. It would be difficult currently,  yes, but give it 30 years it would be quite easy and very efficient. If  people don't want to be considerate of how things work, force needs to  be taken into consideration.


I'll direct the feminists to your doorstep then. Like I'm pretty sure with the direction women's rights is moving in your plan is would be considered archaic. 



> 3. Yes, but they're not on our level of intelligence. Plus things are  harsher on them because they really do need to fight for food and for  mating.


So do a lot of third world countries. More so food than mating but you know. Minor details.


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## Falaffel (Aug 26, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Okay, let's stop calling each other idiots for a moment and try to talk about things calmly.
> 
> Why exactly are non-humans so worthless? Why is misanthropy such a bad thing when lots of things justify it? Why is realizing the flaws of the human race such a bad thing? How is supporting the destruction of creatures just so humans can over-breed a good thing? In all seriousness, why should the human race get away with so much of the things it does, and why are people evil/idiots for pointing those things out?



>says to stop calling each other idiots 
>acts like an idiot. 

Yeah, let's all kill ourselves so animals of inferior intellect can live and prosper! If you want to starve to death for a fucking giraffe then be my guest.


----------



## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> I'll direct the feminists to your doorstep then. Like I'm pretty sure with the direction women's rights is moving in your plan is would be considered archaic.



Um... Why is it necessarily about females? It's safer to do the operation on males. I kind of meant both. If there's one child per adult in the world, the population would never change. 1 child per couple, it would be cut in half...


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Yeah, let's all kill ourselves so animals of inferior intellect can live and prosper! If you want to starve to death for a fucking giraffe then be my guest.


I don't _think_ he's trying to say that....though we've seen pretty much everything here.
But there's no good reason that the cruel, corrupt and greedy among our own should be allowed to prosper, either.
A great many of them are of inferior intellect, as well.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> Um... Why is it necessarily about females? It's safer to do the operation on males. I kind of meant both. If there's one child per adult in the world, the population would never change. 1 child per couple, it would be cut in half...


Okay scratch that then. Human rights activists. I'd hate to have a statewide mandate that said I had to get any sort of operation in compliance with trying to lower population. I hate needles. What will actually lower birth rate is better access to birth control and contraceptives. As well as education. 

Not that anyone would agree to that though. 

And I'm pretty sure China has this rule and yet they have the world's second largest population. (or maybe that's India) Unless they've gotten rid of it by now.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Okay scratch that then. Human rights activists. I'd hate to have a statewide mandate that said I had to get any sort of operation in compliance with trying to lower population. I hate needles. What will actually lower birth rate is better access to birth control and contraceptives. As well as education.
> 
> Not that anyone would agree to that though.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure China has this rule and yet they have the world's second largest population. (or maybe that's India) Unless they've gotten rid of it by now.



I get it, limitations are scary and annoying. But people really have to make due. If populations keep growing we'll have a shortage on food and water, housing, and jobs. I don't have all the answers, but I do think things need to change, am I wrong? If not now, in the future. "Technology is magic, and it grows stronger with time."


----------



## Falaffel (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I don't _think_ he's trying to say that....though we've seen pretty much everything here.
> But there's no good reason that the cruel, corrupt and greedy among our own should be allowed to prosper, either.
> A great many of them are of inferior intellect, as well.



It's just.. 
I don't understand. 
Why do you people want to cripple humanity so a lion can sit on a rock without humans being within 300 yards.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Okay scratch that then. Human rights activists. I'd hate to have a statewide mandate that said I had to get any sort of operation in compliance with trying to lower population. I hate needles. What will actually lower birth rate is better access to birth control and contraceptives. As well as education.
> 
> Not that anyone would agree to that though.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure China has this rule and yet they have the world's second largest population. (or maybe that's India) Unless they've gotten rid of it by now.


I don't think anybody's going to jump on board the idea of enforced birth limits, either. Undermining the ideologies behind everything from small-scale animal abuse to humanity's part in the degradation of the ecosphere at large is a more viable solution.


----------



## Fallowfox (Aug 26, 2013)

In the long run life on earth has recovered from major extinctions several times in the geological past. It will have no trouble evolving around us, and arguably the biodiversity of other systems is a victim of our success- just like cyanobacteria, now responsible for the lion's share of atmospheric oxygen, originally decimated all oxygen-intolerant life. [obviously humanity won't be as influential as that, at least for now]

However I think these views miss the point, which is that Humans don't live in a hypothetical future in which life has recovered from a mass extinction as a result of our presence. We will live in the period of ecological depravity, and that's not a very nice place to be. 

For example, take the native inhabitants of NewZealand. They arrived on a group of islands, exploited the indigenous bird and seal populations until they were not sustainable food sources anymore, suffered protein shortages as a result and consequently developed cultures that *ate* each other. 

We _don't_ want to be like those guys.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I don't think anybody's going to jump on board the idea of enforced birth limits, either. Undermining the ideologies behind everything from small-scale animal abuse to humanity's part in the degradation of the ecosphere at large is a more viable solution.



Yeah, my idea possibly wasn't a good one. But I don't really care if it's used. Just something. I'm not well versed in statistics and all, so I don't really know what the best option would be, but maybe one day I could figure it out or better yet take it to the attention of some sort of scientist... But it's stuff like this, discussing ideas with other people that opens views and possibilities. Who knows, hopefully this thread will be the start of a miniature revolution!!

(I'll keep dreaming... qq...)


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> Yeah, my idea possibly wasn't a good one. But I don't really care if it's used. Just something. I'm not well versed in statistics and all, so I don't really know what the best option would be, but maybe one day I could figure it out or better yet take it to the attention of some sort of scientist... But it's stuff like this, discussing ideas with other people that opens views and possibilities. Who knows, hopefully this thread will be the start of a miniature revolution!!
> 
> (I'll keep dreaming... qq...)


You'll find that the furry fandom really isn't about loving real animals, but beating one's balls to imaginary ones.


----------



## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> Yeah, my idea possibly wasn't a good one. But I don't really care if it's used. Just something. I'm not well versed in statistics and all, so I don't really know what the best option would be, but maybe one day I could figure it out or better yet take it to the attention of some sort of scientist... But it's stuff like this, discussing ideas with other people that opens views and possibilities. Who knows, hopefully this thread will be the start of a miniature revolution!!
> 
> (I'll keep dreaming... qq...)



Dragon avatar confirmed.


----------



## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> I get it, limitations are scary and annoying. But people really have to make due. If populations keep growing we'll have a shortage on food and water, housing, and jobs.


Actually, if population continues to grow it'll eventually get to the point where it can't sustain itself and will accordingly try to kill off the extra. I forget what it's called though. 

And again. If you make birth control more accessible and make sex education a less taboo subject (because if you teach kids about sex they'll only want sex) then the rest will follow. Trying to regulate other people's bodies won't work because there will be too much public outcry.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> In the long run life on earth has recovered from major extinctions several times in the geological past. It will have no trouble evolving around us, and arguably the biodiversity of other systems is a victim of our success- just like cyanobacteria, now responsible for the lion's share of atmospheric oxygen, originally decimated all oxygen-intolerant life. [obviously humanity won't be as influential as that, at least for now]
> 
> However I think these views miss the point, which is that Humans don't live in a hypothetical future in which life has recovered from a mass extinction as a result of our presence. We will live in the period of ecological depravity, and that's not a very nice place to be.
> 
> ...



Well, yes, if we're only thinking of ourselves, that will be the outcome of the human race if things continue. I didn't address that in my thread, and hopefully even though it's not properly realized as a threat currently, solutions will be created when it starts to become one. 

I don't feel so bad for the human race, which is why I haven't addressed it. We've (as a group, not the individual, obviously a 10 year old can't do anything about it) only brought our problems onto ourselves. Animals that go extinct because of us were innocent, in the sense that they didn't have the power to speak out or fight against us. Which is why my primary concern is extinction, not society.

I agree and appreciate your opinion, thank you. =)


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## Fallowfox (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Actually, if population continues to grow it'll eventually get to the point where it can't sustain itself and will accordingly try to kill off the extra. I forget what it's called though.
> 
> *And again. If you make birth control more accessible and make sex education a less taboo subject (because if you teach kids about sex they'll only want sex) then the rest will follow. Trying to regulate other people's bodies won't work because there will be too much public outcry*.



Bingo. 

Bangladeshi child rates dropped from 7 to around 3 per mother in a short time span because of improved education and economic status, especially for women.


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## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

Keep in mind there could be a legitimate issue with underpopulation in developed countries. Look at Japan and Germany.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Actually, if population continues to grow it'll eventually get to the point where it can't sustain itself and will accordingly try to kill off the extra. I forget what it's called though.
> 
> And again. If you make birth control more accessible and make sex education a less taboo subject (because if you teach kids about sex they'll only want sex) then the rest will follow. Trying to regulate other people's bodies won't work because there will be too much public outcry.



I liked how my health class addressed it. My teacher showed us the total cost of having a baby (Let's just say fuck that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit). And it already adds onto the reasons why I'm not going to have kids! [Don't worry people who hate me! You don't have to worry about me breeding ]

I agree, education is very important. The school system needs to be addressed, with new classes teaching kids ethics and morals. Etc, but point is, classes like language and art should not be as mandatory as classes about being a decent person in society and the importance of doing the right thing... Maybe it's just my opinion, but I feel like the corruption begins at the roots.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

TeenageAngst said:


> Keep in mind there could be a legitimate issue with underpopulation in developed countries. Look at Japan and Germany.



I don't know if it's the same for you in Virginia, but here in California we have a shortage of jobs. In countries that need more people, breed those damn rabbits! But here and China, let's... At LEAST slow down.

Crap, I need to stop agreeing with people, without problems nothing will get solved! (Joking...)


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## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

> I don't know if it's the same for you in Virginia, but here in California we have a shortage of jobs.



That... has nothing to do with population density  if anything more people = more jobs.


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## Falaffel (Aug 26, 2013)

Well shit. 
Ignore me because I'm acting like a fucktard in above posts. I'm to damn tired to argue rationally. 

I'm with willow though. 
Sex Ed does tge complete opposite of what it should.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Well shit.
> Ignore me because I'm acting like a fucktard in above posts. I'm to damn tired to argue rationally.
> 
> I'm with willow though.
> Sex Ed does tge complete opposite of what it should.



Eh, you think? I think informing kids about condom usage was pretty important. Though, we were never told to worry about having too many kids for the population. I guess you could say school systems are inconsiderate about what's really important in society. It really shows in uneducated people.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> I liked how my health class addressed it. My teacher showed us the total cost of having a baby (Let's just say fuck that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit). And it already adds onto the reasons why I'm not going to have kids! [Don't worry people who hate me! You don't have to worry about me breeding ]


My school did the whole "don't have sex or you'll die" thing and then showed us pictures of condoms. 



> I agree, education is very important. The school system needs to be addressed, with new classes teaching kids ethics and morals. Etc, but point is, classes like language and art should not be as mandatory as classes about being a decent person in society and the importance of doing the right thing... Maybe it's just my opinion, but I feel like the corruption begins at the roots.


Basically. The only reason sex ed isn't mandatory in most schools is because parents believe it'll just lead to more teen pregnancy. So it hastily gets tacked on to health classes that sort of gloss over it because the book doesn't really give much detail. At least that's what mine was like. Kind of like how violent video games = violent kids.


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## Kurokyune (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Actually, if population continues to grow it'll eventually get to the point where it can't sustain itself and will accordingly try to kill off the extra. I forget what it's called though.
> 
> And again. If you make birth control more accessible and make sex education a less taboo subject (because if you teach kids about sex they'll only want sex) then the rest will follow. Trying to regulate other people's bodies won't work because there will be too much public outcry.



I am sorry but that most likely will not work. If we limit our population the animal population grows. If we limit there population to build cities and towns our population will increase. See where i'm getting at? This is a push and pull situation if we do not take we must limit if we do not limit we must take.
also hiding children from the ideals of sex is a horrible idea I find when its not properly explained as a natural process and left as a mystery we seem to become more curious about such actions.

Some people like to have children maybe you don't but just because its not the ideal life for you people still like the choice. I think we should get our society more  adjusted to concepts like hybrids and stuff instead of shoving the idea of a cleaner earth down peoples throats.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

TeenageAngst said:


> That... has nothing to do with population density  if anything more people = more jobs.



I've heard that before. I don't know... It seems like too many people = Currently existing jobs are all taken, or too many people = New jobs created. I don't really seem to get how it works. I suppose too many people would be a good thing if more people worked farms. Maybe things should be taken into measure like farmers getting paid by the government so there will be good reason to work as a farmer? Hell, just something.

Regarding human society that is... I just really don't like the fact that our existence might be disturbing animals who should have nothing to do with us. Only taking into consideration our problems while OUR problems cause species to go extinct is just plain selfish, you know?


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## Fallowfox (Aug 26, 2013)

Kurokyune said:


> I am sorry but that most likely will not work. If we limit our population the animal population grows. If we limit there population to build cities and towns our population will increase. See where i'm getting at? This is a push and pull situation if we do not take we must limit if we do not limit we must take.
> also hiding children from the ideals of sex is a horrible idea I find when its not properly explained as a natural process and left as a mystery we seem to become more curious about such actions.
> 
> Some people like to have children maybe you don't but just because its not the ideal life for you people still like the choice. I think we should get our society more  adjusted to concepts like hybrids and stuff instead of shoving the idea of a cleaner earth down peoples throats.



It's difficult to tell what exactly you're trying to say. 

I think we all agree that sex education shouldn't hide the facts of life from anyone, at at least.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I think we all agree that sex education shouldn't hide the facts of life from anyone, at at least.



Yeah, definitely should keep the truth clear and out in the open. But even more than that, give kids a fair bat on the hand when they misbehave. It feels like the focus shouldn't be on how sex ed should or shouldn't be done, but more on ethics, like teaching them how having too many kids or sex before marriage can be a huge problem.


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## Willow (Aug 26, 2013)

Kurokyune said:


> I am sorry but that most likely will not work. If we limit our population the animal population grows. If we limit there population to build cities and towns our population will increase. See where i'm getting at? This is a push and pull situation if we do not take we must limit if we do not limit we must take.
> also hiding children from the ideals of sex is a horrible idea I find when its not properly explained as a natural process and left as a mystery we seem to become more curious about such actions.
> 
> Some people like to have children maybe you don't but just because its not the ideal life for you people still like the choice. I think we should get our society more  adjusted to concepts like hybrids and stuff instead of shoving the idea of a cleaner earth down peoples throats.


I am so confused. Did you quote the wrong post or..?


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

Willow said:


> Basically. The only reason sex ed isn't mandatory in most schools is because parents believe it'll just lead to more teen pregnancy. So it hastily gets tacked on to health classes that sort of gloss over it because the book doesn't really give much detail. At least that's what mine was like. Kind of like how violent video games = violent kids.



I think you need to rephrase that. "Violent video games = Violent uneducated kids". Education can make all the difference. I don't know, I never wanted to do bad things cause of video games, I don't really understand why other people would. I'm guessing they just weren't taught any better.


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## TeenageAngst (Aug 26, 2013)

> I've heard that before. I don't know... It seems like too many people = Currently existing jobs are all taken, or too many people = New jobs created. I don't really seem to get how it works. I suppose too many people would be a good thing if more people worked farms. Maybe things should be taken into measure like farmers getting paid by the government so there will be good reason to work as a farmer? Hell, just something.



Maybe you're just blithering about things you don't really comprehend.


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## Kurokyune (Aug 26, 2013)

Sorry,Im a bit new to this posting on forum thing ;w;"


I'm trying to say that we shouldn't just run out and say the population needs to be limited

This seems to be a problem of push and pull. 
With a growing population we will need to expand, taking up more land that the animals we want to protect call home limiting there living space.
In the case that we choose to save the animals our population must be limited and controlled.
I think its best to find a solution that would work out for both such as finding a new way to expand the building of homes in a way that dose not negatively effect our environment.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 26, 2013)

TeenageAngst said:


> Maybe you're just blithering about things you don't really comprehend.



Well, I understand the topic. I can grasp it. The point is we need to be more considerate of how our actions affect earth, nature, and the animals. If we only worry about the problems we cause for ourselves, we're selfish if we ignore the problems we cause for the planet.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 27, 2013)

Kurokyune said:


> I'm trying to say that we shouldn't just run out and say the population needs to be limited



So as long as every species goes extinct, it's alright as long as  humans benefit. Don't we WANT animals to become more populated? Don't we  WANT a more stable ecosystem? Don't we WANT to stop ourselves from our  own doom? Just saying.




Rael'oraz said:


> Well, I understand the topic. I can grasp it. The point is we need to be more considerate of how our actions affect earth, nature, and the animals. If we only worry about the problems we cause for ourselves, we're selfish if we ignore the problems we cause for the planet.



Forget it. This topic is just revolving doors. Neither side is going to succumb to the other regardless of who's right or wrong. Frankly, this is just another example of why the human race is so heavily despised.


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## RTDragon (Aug 27, 2013)

What the hell just happened here while i was asleep? this now turned into an anti-human bashing just like the other thread on the rant and raves a few months ago.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 27, 2013)

That's always what it's about, isn't it? Any time someone points out flaws the human race does that can be fixed if we work together, it's ALWAYS seen as "Baaaawww! Ebil Hoomans!" Well no, it's not about that. Humans aren't evil, just that many make evil decisions they don't need to make.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 27, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> That's always what it's about, isn't it? Any time someone points out flaws the human race does that can be fixed if we work together, it's ALWAYS seen as "Baaaawww! Ebil Hoomans!" Well no, it's not about that. Humans aren't evil, just that many make evil decisions they don't need to make.



Well when you say things like "You're right. Humans are fucking gods! Forget about animals, they're  just tools for us oh-so perfect humans to use. They mean jack shit. ONLY  OUR FUCKING HUMAN RACE IS RELEVANT ON THIS GOD DAMN PLANET!!!" Any legitimate point you may have is immediately overshadowed by your completely transparent self-loathing and inability to accept other viewpoints.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> What the hell just happened here while i was asleep? this now turned into an anti-human bashing just like the other thread on the rant and raves a few months ago.



The thread isn't supposed to be about humans being bad.

I'd like to remind everyone that the point of the thread is to spend your life making a real difference in the world. We have infinite potential, but our lives are short, and death is supposedly an eternity of uselessness. No one's going to enjoy remembering a bad person in the world, so why use that potential for bad things? This thread is supposed to be a wake up call to people who haven't really thought about this type of thing, reminding them what mortality really is, and to cherish the planet we grew up on.

If by chance the discussion turns into what our kin are doing wrong on the planet, that's because it means we're supposed to frown upon that or do something about it.


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## Falaffel (Aug 27, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> So as long as every species goes extinct, it's alright as long as  humans benefit. Don't we WANT animals to become more populated? Don't we  WANT a more stable ecosystem? Don't we WANT to stop ourselves from our  own doom? Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heavily despised by _*who?*_

Animals sure as fuck aren't smart enough to despise all humans. 
Aliens? 
Some other intelligent species I don't know about?


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

I'd like to apologize for posting so much in my own thread, though I don't know if that's really a bad thing. To keep things going, I'd like to suggest a few conversational topics.

"What do you think makes a good person in society?"
"What are good ways to really make a difference in the world?"
"How far should you go to make a difference?"

I don't know, I just want to hear people's opinions and discuss them. (Politely, please).


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 27, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Heavily despised by _*who?*_
> 
> Animals sure as fuck aren't smart enough to despise all humans.
> Aliens?
> Some other intelligent species I don't know about?



Allegedly he meant by us. Since obviously everyone here is a self-loathing tree-hugger.


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## Machine (Aug 27, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Heavily despised by _*who?*_
> 
> Animals sure as fuck aren't smart enough to despise all humans.
> Aliens?
> Some other intelligent species I don't know about?


The surest sign of intelligent life outside of Earth is that they haven't visited us. :V



PastryOfApathy said:


> Allegedly he meant by us. Since obviously everyone here is a self-loathing tree-hugger.


I'm a tree-loathing self-hugger.


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## Falaffel (Aug 27, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Allegedly he meant by us. Since obviously everyone here is a self-loathing tree-hugger.



Christ almighty. 
My brain exploded.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

Alright I've got something for you fine, sexy... Things. On the topic of animals going extinct, what animal do you know of that is threatened which you would not like to see go?


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 27, 2013)

Machine said:


> I'm a tree-loathing self-hugger.



You're doing the human race proud.


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## Falaffel (Aug 27, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> Alright I've got something for you fine, sexy... Things. On the topic of animals going extinct, what animal do you know of that is threatened which you would not like to see go?



Any bird except chickens . Birds are cool and harmless to our survival . 
Then pigs. I wish to never run out of bacon .


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Any bird except chickens . Birds are cool and harmless to our survival .
> Then pigs. I wish to never run out of bacon .



o.o Why not chickens? Chickens lay eggs :C have you ever tasted egg and bacon mixed? I mean scrambled... Not to mention, they're like the only bird that reproduces asexually, you have to give them some credit. They're pretty unique.

Because I'm a big fat fuckin scaly honestly my priority is those poor crocodiles and then other reptiles. Whales and fish are pretty important to me, but all creatures are in the end. Just want to take priority over the most endangered species. Can't be so selfish these days.


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## Falaffel (Aug 27, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> o.o Why not chickens? Chickens lay eggs :C have you ever tasted egg and bacon mixed? I mean scrambled... Not to mention, they're like the only bird that reproduces asexually, you have to give them some credit. They're pretty unique.
> 
> Because I'm a big fat fuckin scaly honestly my priority is those poor crocodiles and then other reptiles. Whales and fish are pretty important to me, but all creatures are in the end. Just want to take priority over the most endangered species. Can't be so selfish these days.



Chickens are annoying >:c


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## Kalmor (Aug 27, 2013)

Rael'oraz said:


> Not to mention, they're like the only bird that reproduces asexually, you have to give them some credit. They're pretty unique.


Nope, hens still require a rooster to reproduce. The eggs that you eat are just infertile.


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 27, 2013)

The moment chickens become even remotely close to being extinct is the moment you see the largest show of activism in human history.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

Raptros said:


> Nope, hens still require a rooster to reproduce. The eggs that you eat are just infertile.



Well, shows what I know... Anyway, anyone here at all interested in perhaps donating or volunteering for a cause?


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 27, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Well when you say things like "You're  right. Humans are fucking gods! Forget about animals, they're  just  tools for us oh-so perfect humans to use. They mean jack shit. ONLY  OUR  FUCKING HUMAN RACE IS RELEVANT ON THIS GOD DAMN PLANET!!!" Any  legitimate point you may have is immediately overshadowed by your  completely transparent self-loathing and inability to accept other  viewpoints.



I don't respect eco-terrorist/"humans are allowed to be as destructive as they want" type views, because I see nothing to respect in such evil mindsets. Simple as that. I don't see why that makes my views invalid.



Falaffel said:


> Heavily despised by _*who?*_



Gee... I dunno. Maybe OTHER HUMANS!? In all seriousness, you just  pulled an argument out of nowhere. Also that argument meant nothing the  first time it was used in this thread.



Rael'oraz said:


> Alright I've got something for you fine, sexy... Things. On the topic of animals going extinct, what animal do you know of that is threatened which you would not like to see go?



It'd be stupid to say just one species. I wouldn't like to see ANY species go extinct.


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## Harbinger (Aug 27, 2013)

I want to do as much as i possibly can to conserve biodiversity, i want to dump as much as i can spare into one of the charities specifically for an endangered species, i have a soft spot for carnivores like big cats and such. Only reason i havent yet is i havent found a legit one, was going to do the WWF thing but i was told that they dont help much and promote hateful acts like seal hunting.
I really wish i could work in conservation but i lack the degree's and there isnt anywhere locally that would help. I freaking love animals and have a shit tonne of pets, i do my best to breed them so they last longer in captivity and decrease the demand from wild caught stock. Its the closest thing to actually helping out i guess. I'll be keeping dart frogs soon, going to shift towards breeding amphibians seeing as im allowed now and also they are in worldwide decline 

If anyone know's anything about the Halo franchise i think the Mantle is what i basically live by, conserve all life.


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## Fallowfox (Aug 27, 2013)

Harbinger said:


> I want to do as much as i possibly can to conserve biodiversity, i want to dump as much as i can spare into one of the charities specifically for an endangered species, i have a soft spot for carnivores like big cats and such. Only reason i havent yet is i havent found a legit one, was going to do the WWF thing but i was told that they dont help much and promote hateful acts like seal hunting.
> I really wish i could work in conservation but i lack the degree's and there isnt anywhere locally that would help. I freaking love animals and have a shit tonne of pets, i do my best to breed them so they last longer in captivity and decrease the demand from wild caught stock. Its the closest thing to actually helping out i guess. I'll be keeping dart frogs soon, going to shift towards breeding amphibians seeing as im allowed now and also they are in worldwide decline
> 
> If anyone know's anything about the Halo franchise i think the Mantle is what i basically live by, conserve all life.



http://www.treesforlife.org.uk/

That's a rather ambitious charity. The only cruel thing I know of them is that they shoot sika deer, which is an invasive species that was introduced to the UK, but mostly they plant trees. 

At the moment the only thing I really do to ease the pressure on ecosystems is abstaining from meat.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

greenpeace.org/usa/en/ Is the only group I really know about. Apparently they're a pretty big deal. You can volunteer or donate to causes there...


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## Ozriel (Aug 27, 2013)

Here's a whole list of groups dedicated to conservation.


Some of them are for specific things, like clean air, or water. Then you have those that deal with preserving and finding alternatives to ecosystems.


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## Rael'oraz (Aug 27, 2013)

Well, first off I'd like everyone to know about fracking. http://greenpeaceblogs.org/2013/08/14/lessons-from-the-us-for-countries-about-to-be-fracked/

This is terrible, how do these companies get away with it so easily? I'd highly suggest everyone reads the articles on that website. For the sake of no longer being ignorant, at the least. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to go to my old school or something and talk with the principle about educating the students, or at least putting up fliers.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 27, 2013)

It's not the mining of the sand that is the problem, it's what they use it for. They mix the sand with other chemicals and blast said chemicals into the earth to break up tar that can be used as oil. Not only is this bad for the environment, but it can SERIOUSLY contaminate human water supplies as well. I hear the chemicals used in frack-mining can actually make water flammable.


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## Falaffel (Aug 27, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> OTHER HUMANS!? In all seriousness, you just  pulled an argument out of nowhere.


I was under the impression you hated self-loathing due to your hatred towards furries that make fun of furries. 

My mistake, great one.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Aug 27, 2013)

Raptros said:


> Nope, hens still require a rooster to reproduce. The eggs that you eat are just infertile.


The OP has already claimed to know better than his biology textbook.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Aug 27, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> I was under the impression you hated self-loathing due to your hatred towards furries that make fun of furries.
> 
> My mistake, great one.



I said I dislike people who are supposedly fans of something that despise EVERYTHING involving what they are supposedly a fan of, and treat people who actually act like fans like crap. I never said anything about Self-Loathing itself.


On Topic: There's a lot of sand mining where I live. There are sand-mines EVERYWHERE. You can't go ten miles without seeing one.


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