# Plot Holes



## Demensa (Feb 2, 2013)

While I do enjoy movies that require suspension of disbelief, sometimes I just can't help but notice flaws in the plot as well as flaws in action sequences that attempt to be realistic.
So the point of this thread is to discuss plot holes in films (or books, TV etc. if you like) that annoy you.  Also, I want to pose the question: Why is it that you ignore plot holes in one film but not in another?
For example I watched some of the Star Wars movies recently and I could pick out a ridiculous number of unrealistic action sequences and plot holes, but I didn't let them bother me. Why? Maybe it was because it wasn't trying so hard to be realistic. Maybe it was because of how highly regarded the movies are in popular culture. Maybe the movies would be _boring _without any plot holes.

I suspect that it is a combination of these for myself, but I want to hear your thoughts.

Some examples of plot holes that bug me:

*Time travel plotholes.*
(WARNING: A lot of speculation below)
I rarely find a time travel movie that does not have a plothole that bugs me. (Which is funny, because I usually like movies which involve time travel)
For example: (And this is where people will/should tell me I'm wrong) In the Terminator movies, it seems to me like they could have sent multiple Terminators to kill John (or his mother, or grandmother etc!) instead of just a few. Couldn't the machines in the future just keep sending back Terminators to whatever time they wanted? Or on the other side of things, since presumably John has made it to the future and thus terminators are being sent back, whatever they send back should make no difference, since John already exists in the future? Or would it make the future John 'disappear' at the moment when they send the terminator that kills him back in time.

Of course, that sounds completely wrong but the disappearing character plot device is used in movies such as Back to the Future and Looper, which I disagree with wholeheartedly. 
While I don't know exactly how things would happen regarding backwards time travel, especially depending on what ideas you're using (changeable or unchangeable history?, multiverse or single universe, probabilities?)
it still annoys me to see a movie that tries to portray time travel with a degree of accuracy (Or a serious movie with time travel as an integral plot element) but could be fundamentally wrong.

To wrap it up, another thing that annoys me in action sequences, is running from things in straight lines. Prometheus is a prime and hilarious example. (Those who have seen it will know what I mean.)


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Feb 3, 2013)

One of the biggest plot holes I can think of is in _Lord of the Rings_. Why didn't Gandalf just get one of those big eagle things to put the ring in that volcano (sorry, I'm not too sure of the terminology in LOTR)? I would talk about some plot holes in _Doctor Who _, but most of the plot holes in that require a working knowledge of the show, which is too complicated to explain here.




Demensa said:


> To wrap it up, another thing that annoys me in action sequences, is running from things in straight lines. Prometheus is a prime and hilarious example. (Those who have seen it will know what I mean.)




I was almost screaming "RUN LEFT YOU IDIOT" at the cinema screen during _Prometheus_.


----------



## Furcade (Feb 3, 2013)

I wanted to comment on this, as plot holes are a thing I always take pride in calling out, but I can't think of any at this very moment. There was one in V for Vendetta, but I can't...

Anyway, as for your time travel woes, artistic licence should always go hand-in-hand with science fiction. But then, science fiction authors should be more careful when writing content, because their target audience is often a little more cluey than the mainstream (why didn't HAL take control of the pod while Dave was trying to rescue that other guy in the same way he did to murder said other guy? That would've saved a lot of time for everyone concerned).



			
				Demensa said:
			
		

> it still annoys me to see a movie that tries to portray time travel with  a degree of accuracy (Or a serious movie with time travel as an  integral plot element) but could be fundamentally wrong.



They don't explain the virology behind zombie apocalypses in anything more than pseudoscience and people rarely care about that (except for virologists, I suppose), so why should sci-fi authors have to explain/be able to back up the physics of time travel as used in their work? In any event, physicists could be fundamentally wrong about their perception of the proposed rules of time travel


----------



## iconmaster (Feb 3, 2013)

Speaking of the Terminator movie's time travel, I watched Terminator Slavation a while back, and it gto to me how they basically did nothing but fill stable time loops the whole movie, and yet they had the nerve to go on about "your destiny is what you make it" at the end of the movie.


----------



## Demensa (Feb 4, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> One of the biggest plot holes I can think of is in _Lord of the Rings_. Why didn't Gandalf just get one of those big eagle things to put the ring in that volcano (sorry, I'm not too sure of the terminology in LOTR)?



I was going to mention that as well, since it is the classic example. 
I once heard the argument that Sauron would easily see them (and stop them?) if they flew right into Mordor. It makes some sense, but then again they were able to save Frodo and Sam...



Furcade said:


> They don't explain the virology behind zombie apocalypses in anything more than pseudoscience and people rarely care about that (except for virologists, I suppose), so why should sci-fi authors have to explain/be able to back up the physics of time travel as used in their work? In any event, physicists could be fundamentally wrong about their perception of the proposed rules of time travel



Once again, I love time travel movies and I don't think people should stop making them, but they try to portray ideas that hinge around concepts they don't fully understand, which can annoy me sometimes. I guess when you think about it, I should just ignore it, since the physics of the time machines often used are flawed. I should just think of it as 'magic' or a 'what if' situation, like how I watch Star Wars, etc. However at the same time it still bugs me more than the concept of zombies and after thinking about it... I know from an objective standpoint that it really shouldn't bother me :/


----------



## Captain Howdy (Feb 4, 2013)

Time Travel has bothered me big time as well, but for the fact that they dub it "time travel", yet they'll go back in time 500 years and end up going from California to Australia or some shit. I never understood time travel to also mean distance-travel, yet that is somehow what it's always been.

I'm also one of those people that sit back and enjoy a movie for what it is, then criticize it afterwards. Dark Knight Rises had quite a number of them, as did the Avengers, but there's also tv shows like Supernatural that bug the shit out of me too at times.

Supernatural: Two brothers who fight all sorts of supernatural beasties, one of them having fought them since he was a child, yet he gets jumped in practically every episode *by surprise* in an almost identical way every time. They also tend to fight most battles the same way, as if they never learn anything, and are usually wounded a good amount from it every time. They got the chops, but never freaking learn!


----------



## Demensa (Feb 4, 2013)

Lastdirewolf said:


> Time Travel has bothered me big time as well, but for the fact that they dub it "time travel", yet they'll go back in time 500 years and end up going from California to Australia or some shit. I never understood time travel to also mean distance-travel, yet that is somehow what it's always been.
> 
> I'm also one of those people that sit back and enjoy a movie for what it is, then criticize it afterwards. Dark Knight Rises had quite a number of them, as did the Avengers, but there's also tv shows like Supernatural that bug the shit out of me too at times.
> 
> Supernatural: Two brothers who fight all sorts of supernatural beasties, one of them having fought them since he was a child, yet he gets jumped in practically every episode *by surprise* in an almost identical way every time. They also tend to fight most battles the same way, as if they never learn anything, and are usually wounded a good amount from it every time. They got the chops, but never freaking learn!



Man, I definitely agree on the whole "Time travel but also travel through space" thing as well, although in real life I have no clue how you could know exactly where you need to be anyways (Earth moving around the sun, sun moving around the centre of the galaxy etc. It would be insanely difficult to work out where you want to be. It brings all sorts of relativity issues into it as well...) Maybe I should have started a time travel thread instead?


----------



## Tybis (Feb 4, 2013)

Demensa said:


> Maybe I should have started a time travel thread instead?



My deja vu is tingling!


----------



## Furcade (Feb 4, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> One of the biggest plot holes I can think of is in _Lord of the Rings_. Why didn't Gandalf just get one of those big eagle things to put the ring in that volcano (sorry, I'm not too sure of the terminology in LOTR)?



I should probably watch/read Lord of the Rings before I comment, but anyway...

A friend once postulated: "I've come to the conclusion that Gandalf can  use the eagles to get himself out of an impossible situation once a  movie with the exception of The Return Of The King, in which he saved  one turn from The Two Towers which enabled him to use them twice in a  single film."

I guess that's why. He was out of turns.


----------



## Conker (Feb 4, 2013)

There's a really stupid one in Se7en that bothered the shit out of me. Main character is taunted by the killer a few times who knows too much and is clearly psychotic. Main character has a wife and is a cop. Why doesn't main character ever stop and go, "maybe I should put her in some kind of protection program until we find this guy, since he's clearly crazy and knows how to find me?" 

I called the death of the wife so early on in that movie.


----------

