# New server - issue...



## Alkora (Jul 27, 2005)

Well...
I had the account created on the new server...but when I tried to use shell access...something weird happened...

the command ls was screwing up...

so they went to look at the server...it was then they realized that the second processor wasn't working at all...

They've ordered a new server...but it looks like it is just a single processor.

I really don't think that'll cut it...

So, what i am proposing is this:

We should have our own server built and co-located.
I can build it myself...
I have about $100 i think i can throw in right now...maybe a little less...

If anyone is willing to work with me on this, let me know ASAP

on the side tho, i will still be looking for other sites as possibilities to have the site located at. Let me know if you find something nice for a good price.

we'd need something that is AT VERY LEAST

3.0 dual processors, preferably xeons
1 gb or ram (altho more then that is DEFINATELY good...)
80 gb hdd...(preferably a lot more tho...)
on a line that is atleast 4mb/s up and down.


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## Killy the Fox (Jul 27, 2005)

I wouldn't mind helping out with some money but i can't right now >_> You would need to wait about 2,5 weeks before i could donate a bit to you as i then will have some payment again from my job so for now i can't quite help you... Sux this happened right now. If i had know i would been a bit less spending wen i went out yesterday.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 27, 2005)

You need 2 gigs of ram, Jheryn... settle for no less.

Let me see what I can do about getting you funding. But do NOT get a dell. No, no, no.


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## Daddyfox (Jul 27, 2005)

About how much money would it cost in all to build your own?

-Fox


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## uncia2000 (Jul 27, 2005)

_*reads*_

obvious questions, Jheryn...

Can their replacement server be up-and-running asap and, if so, would it provide an adequate stopgap that could be ported from at a later date?

If not, how long would the new build take?

What would cause the least disruption now and/or at a later date?
(Getting things back on-line soonish would of course mean bugfix issues come back to the fore sooner-rather-than-later, but the majority of people might just want to get back online asap).

What funding levels are you looking at?


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## PunkTiger (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm more than willing to part with some hard-earned dosh to help out. Like everyone else, I'd like to know how big a mountain we're facing.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 27, 2005)

PunkTiger said:
			
		

> I'm more than willing to part with some hard-earned dosh to help out. Like everyone else, I'd like to know how big a mountain we're facing.



I priced out the server specs at about $2.6K.


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## uncia2000 (Jul 27, 2005)

preyfar said:
			
		

> PunkTiger said:
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*eeps*. That's new, not second-hand on eBay? :?

(Seriously though, a slight lowering of spec from the cutting-edge might be workable and could be a large difference in capital cost).

_Just thinking..._


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## PunkTiger (Jul 27, 2005)

Hmmm...

Clarification needed: Is the new server instrumental in getting FA back up immediately, or is Jheryn and Co. looking at a co-location to put FA up for the time being while work is being done building the new server?


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## Dragoneer (Jul 27, 2005)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> *eeps*. That's new, not second-hand on eBay? :?
> 
> (Seriously though, a slight lowering of spec from the cutting-edge might be workable and could be a large difference in capital cost).
> 
> _Just thinking..._



To be brutally honest with you, buying new hardware for a server off of eBay is a terrible and stupid idea. You have no gaurantee or warranty on the parts, nor do you have a store-based return policy. You may have a manufacturer, but how do you know if it's still valid? On average, if something fucks up with your part, you are out of luck.

New parts, with a warranty... are the best bet you can go for a server unless the used parts are covered by a warranty (but in the server world, that doesn't happen).

If it's not new you're just gambling your money away on hardware.


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## Killy the Fox (Jul 27, 2005)

preyfar said:
			
		

> You need 2 gigs of ram, Jheryn... settle for no less.
> 
> Let me see what I can do about getting you funding. But do NOT get a dell. No, no, no.



Did i hear the satanic word named Dell?!


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## Suule (Jul 27, 2005)

Killy the fox said:
			
		

> preyfar said:
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KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!


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## Dragoneer (Jul 27, 2005)

Suule said:
			
		

> KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!



Fire... BAAAAD. Napster... GOOOOOOD.


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## uncia2000 (Jul 27, 2005)

preyfar said:
			
		

> To be brutally honest with you, buying new hardware for a server off of eBay is a terribly and stupid idea. You have no gaurantee or warranty on the parts, nor do you have a store-based return policy.


*nods at the brutal 'yena*.
Probably more of an issue with servers in that any failure issues are going to be magnified hundreds of times by all the users who are trying to be online during that downtime. Can't deny that. 
And from past experience, a long period of 100% availability in that department would be _highly_ desirable to help get things back on an even keel.

OK. Second-hand, at all then?

*reads*


			
				preyfar said:
			
		

> New parts, with a warranty... are the best bet


Regardless of us not having a few thousand dollars in our fund...

Hrmm. Just that I know $2,600 is a major "ask", even if there is an interim solution available to get things back up-and-running soonish.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 27, 2005)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> OK. Second-hand, at all then?


Not if can be avoided. I know it's expensive, and I know it's not the numbers or figures want to see, but for reliability, second hand is not the best for server status.



			
				uncia2000 said:
			
		

> preyfar said:
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It's not a number anybody wants to see, but that's the close to the number it takes to put together a good quality, high end server to be able to crunch a database with good numbers.

Now, on the plus side, I've gotten two professional programmers to help out with server code and optimizations. So, I'm helping assemble a quality dev team for the site.

There are still questions that need to be answered, but we'll figure thouse out in due time.


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## uncia2000 (Jul 27, 2005)

preyfar said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
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OK. Was "just thinking", but perhaps was more "wishful thinking" than anything else.



			
				preyfar said:
			
		

> It's not a number anybody wants to see, but that's the close to the number it takes to put together a good quality, high end server to be able to crunch a database with good numbers.


Had a quick look through prices, myself.
To be honest that's a lot of power for the money. My comments were mostly in the context of knowing how few people were willing/able to commit financially.
Maybe that has changed. _*looks hopeful*_



			
				preyfar said:
			
		

> Now, on the plus side, I've gotten two professional programmers to help out with server code and optimizations. So, I'm helping assemble a quality dev team for the site.


That deserves a major "thank you" to all involved in carrying things forward.
Hoping will be a serious incentive to get the momentum up, too!



			
				preyfar said:
			
		

> There are still questions that need to be answered, but we'll figure thouse out in due time.


Agreed. Reassuring to know y'all will have your pawpads on the pulse.

Is a hosting plan a _viable_ interim solution, or is that big-bang possible in the short term?
_(Sorry; I hate to ask questions to which people might not have the answers...)._

=
Question, aside: With a co-located server, monthly running costs are going to be lower, no? viz. not paying for server depreciation on top of everything else.


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## WHPellic (Jul 27, 2005)

Killy the fox said:
			
		

> preyfar said:
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Hey! I use a Dell laptop!

Then again, I don't run a server on it.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 27, 2005)

WHPellic said:
			
		

> Hey! I use a Dell laptop!



Dell used to make good gear, but unfortuantely they went for the "quantity over quality" ideal.


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## Velocigon (Jul 27, 2005)

preyfar said:
			
		

> Dell used to make good gear, but unfortuantely they went for the "quantity over quality" ideal.



Ugh, Don't remind me, heh.


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## NeoWarriorCat (Jul 28, 2005)

*low whistle* That's quite a bit of moolah.

Best wishes to ya for raising that amount of cash, sorry I can't really help (one of those times when being a minor can bite)

Ok, not like I'd be able to help much anyways XD

Still, best wishes to ya!


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## Keffria (Jul 28, 2005)

*is currently working off a Dell laptop* course mine is an Inspiron 8000 only thing screwy with it is the screen... can't move it anymore *grumbles* ah well what do I expect from a 6-7 year old laptop?


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## WHPellic (Jul 28, 2005)

I use an Inspiron 1100.


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## Mitch_DLG (Jul 28, 2005)

And I run a four-year-old Dimension 8200.  Still runs like a top, and has been the most trouble-free machine I, or any of my friends, have ever had.

Of course, this thing was made back in the day when Dell made some rock-solid PCs.  I do reccomend building from scratch now, as long as you can get the software you need.

Current layout sounds okay, but, I really would like to see the dual procs on there, and at least two gigs of RAM.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 28, 2005)

Mitch_DLG said:
			
		

> Current layout sounds okay, but, I really would like to see the dual procs on there, and at least two gigs of RAM.



My price quote incorporated 160+ GB HDs in Raid 1, 2GB of low lat RAM and 2 3.2ghz Xeon processors.


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## Janet Merai (Jul 28, 2005)

Killy the fox said:
			
		

> preyfar said:
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What's the deal with Dell? oO;


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

Who exactly is working on this server anyways?  Where will it be hosted?  IMHO, it would be best to get a dual core AMD Athlon.  

Before I give any money (and I will), who is XB Systems?


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## Suule (Jul 28, 2005)

> Who exactly is working on this server anyways? Where will it be hosted? IMHO, it would be best to get a dual core AMD Athlon.



AMDs are great for games, Intels are great for multimedia. I'd preffer Intel processors over AMD when it comes to serious stuff like this. Intel is aiming for more professional market.


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

Suule said:
			
		

> AMDs are great for games, Intels are great for multimedia. I'd preffer Intel processors over AMD when it comes to serious stuff like this. Intel is aiming for more professional market.



And AMD is not aiming for high end profeesional server markets?  I think since some companies like Dell, HP, IBM, Sun Microsystems, and others that sell servers using the Opteron chip use them, why should Jheryn not consider using an Opteron chip?  I was mistaken in my first post to say Athlon.  I had meant Opteron.  

Reasons to use an Opteron:
a) Linux can be compiled to run on it.
b) Built in memory controller, eliminating an external chipset for support.
c) It's cheaper by Intel Xeons by a lot.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 28, 2005)

starlite528 said:
			
		

> Who exactly is working on this server anyways?  Where will it be hosted?  IMHO, it would be best to get a dual core AMD Athlon.
> 
> Before I give any money (and I will), who is XB Systems?



I was looking into server chip prices. You could get a twin dual core 2.0ghz opteron system for an affordable price. That's roughly 8ghz over of all poweri in a matter of speaking. You can probably jump up to the next power level, too. Not TOO expensive.


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## Suule (Jul 28, 2005)

> And AMD is not aiming for high end profeesional server markets?  I think since some companies like Dell, HP, IBM, Sun Microsystems, and others that sell servers using the Opteron chip use them, why should Jheryn not consider using an Opteron chip?  I was mistaken in my first post to say Athlon.  I had meant Opteron.
> 
> Reasons to use an Opteron:
> a) Linux can be compiled to run on it.
> ...



Okay, since you put it that way. Yeah. Athlon threw me off. But I still preffer Intel over AMD... I've dealt with both and AMD gave me so many aches I switched back to Intel when I got the laptop.


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

Suule said:
			
		

> Okay, since you put it that way. Yeah. Athlon threw me off. But I still preffer Intel over AMD... I've dealt with both and AMD gave me so many aches I switched back to Intel when I got the laptop.



I agree.  Up until within the last month?  AMD didn't have a mobile version of a cpu for laptops.  I haven't had a chance to read about the new Turion, let alone use them.  I do happen to be stuck in Egypt for the rest of this year with the MFO.


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## Suule (Jul 28, 2005)

Well my problems with AMD were purely assembler ones, since I've tried to access many functions that worked well in Intel processors and didn't work with AMD ones. Right now I must think of hacks to use instead of pure simple assembler goodness... and above all that: My AMD processor went bonkers and I had to replace it under guarnatee...


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

Suule said:
			
		

> Okay, since you put it that way. Yeah. Athlon threw me off. But I still preffer Intel over AMD... I've dealt with both and AMD gave me so many aches I switched back to Intel when I got the laptop.



I agree.  Up until within the last month?  AMD didn't have a mobile version of a cpu for laptops.  I haven't had a chance to read about the new Turion, let alone use them.  I do happen to be stuck in Egypt for the rest of this year with the MFO.


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

Suule said:
			
		

> Well my problems with AMD were purely assembler ones, since I've tried to access many functions that worked well in Intel processors and didn't work with AMD ones. Right now I must think of hacks to use instead of pure simple assembler goodness... and above all that: My AMD processor went bonkers and I had to replace it under guarnatee...



Sorry about the double post.  

You program in assembler.  I program in...uh....nothing 
Yeah, you're more than 1-up above me.  The only other person I know that programs in assembler is Steve Gibson, and his software is absolutly top notch!


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## Suule (Jul 28, 2005)

Assembler is a bitch - it's NON-PORTABLE. That means I have to write 4-5 versions of the same thing for diffrent OSes and Processors. Right now we have: Intel (the best one in terms of compatibality), AMD (Far worse, but it supports the basic functions and uses the nearly same architecture,  M68x (Motorolas which are using big endians instead of little ones and have very differnt memory addressing than in Intel chipsets). Now we have... Differnt OSes who have their interrupts and the whole situation is beginning to look complicated... ASM right now is a dying languge unless you specialise in reverse engineering or programming chipsets.

Right now I'm devoting myself to doing everything cross-platform using Borland (SHAMELESS OLD SCHOOL PROGRAMMER) (Delphi 7, Kylix 3, C++ Builder 6) or open source compilers (Freepascal). ASM is useless in X-platform progreamming


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

I understand.  I did take an 'Intro to VB' class, and I do understand BASIC (from the Commodore VIC20) a tiny bit.  I've never made any useful programs.  Mabye I should start getting into it, but I see no need to at the moment.  The best I've done is modifying config files to work for me.


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## starlite528 (Jul 28, 2005)

Oh yeah, and lets not forget pure machine language programming :lol:


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## Suule (Jul 28, 2005)

My experience in programming is: 

2 libraries (one pascal one -> SVGA lib with lots of ASM hacks, second one assembler -> ASCII/CRT lib)
2 programs (one encryption program, one sprite engine presentation)
Few demos (Plasma and such)

My current projects
- Rougelike
- Dungeon Master Clone
- Toxicology database (my university project)


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## Shadou (Jul 28, 2005)

I don't know if this is helpful but I built my own computer and it has a server tower and I got most of the parts for it from newegg.com my mom also used them when she built her computer and if you visit compusa.com you can sometimes find some great deals on hard drives/memory

i hope thathelps


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## keobear (Jul 29, 2005)

I have AMD system and its pretty trouble free with hardware.
Opteron Server system sound good and cheaper.
Personally I been around Intel system I seen so many probs from gliching, overheat and melting to board.
Get good system and can handle things great


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## Micah (Jul 29, 2005)

Sorry, I just got out of bed and honestly didn't want to read through this entire topic. I'm really sory for that. Anyway; I didn't know where to post this but I'm doing it here, I hope it doesn't upset anyone:

On the 2nd version of FA, I had a little login problems. After a while I suddenly noticed I was no longer logged in, this I solved by deleting the cashe and cookies and all that and it worked just fine. I was however wondering if that was a local thing or if the was the server that kept kicking me off? 

(After reading my post, i've come to a conclution: NEVER to make a post before breakfast again. o.o; )


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## Dragoneer (Jul 29, 2005)

Micah said:
			
		

> On the 2nd version of FA, I had a little login problems. After a while I suddenly noticed I was no longer logged in, this I solved by deleting the cashe and cookies and all that and it worked just fine



Problems like that (and others) will be fixed and smoothed out by the time FA returns.


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## uncia2000 (Jul 29, 2005)

> Preyfar wrote:
> Problems like that (and others) will be fixed and smoothed out by the time
> FA returns.

(Well, unless a server materialises on the doorstep this instant? ).

Thanks to whoever's involved in that!


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## yiverioustheevil (Jul 30, 2005)

*Suggestion*

Contact Fenris Web Design, they have a ton of people on their team that are furrys that may be interested in helping build the server.

Just an idea!


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## Kitaku (Jul 30, 2005)

well, I'm fully willing to donate some cash, but I hanve none free just now...and I HATE paypal...you got someway we can get money orders out to ya?


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## SnoSno (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm just waiting to see everyone donate to get this really high-end server built, for the site to go back up for a few months, then for Jher to pull the plug with some lame excuse that he doesn't want to run it anymore or can't afford it even with donations or something.

The system he's wanting is going to cost quite a pretty penny, and this is just an easy way out of having to pay for it all himself. 

Before people all go donating to get some big heavy-duty server up and running, you should all ask Jher to do a few simple things. Make FA into a legitiment company or business, which is really not at all difficult. Have him add into the paperwork, that should he decide to discontinue his job as owner/admin of the site, that he either A) refund the cost of the server to those who donated and helped to buy it(as they are partial owners of it from such donations), or B) That he is required to pass the server to another of the staff, so they can continue to run the site.

Afterall, from what I've heared about Jher from Arc, he's nothing but a sponge and will quite likely take the money/server and shrug all you off once he's got it. 

My 2 cents.


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## WHPellic (Jul 31, 2005)

SnoSno said:
			
		

> Afterall, from what I've heared about Jher from Arc, he's nothing but a sponge and will quite likely take the money/server and shrug all you off once he's got it.
> 
> My 2 cents.



You sure have a lot of confidence in Jheryn, don't you?

Look Jheryn! He's poking you with a stick!


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## SnoSno (Jul 31, 2005)

WHPellic said:
			
		

> You sure have a lot of confidence in Jheryn, don't you?



I've seen how "GREAT" an Admin he is, and it didn't help my confidence any. Respect and confidence are earned, and he's already in the negative in my book. :b


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## PunkTiger (Jul 31, 2005)

Given this entire situation, I would take anything Arcturus said about Jheryn with a grain of salt. Likewise, I would take anything Jheryn says about Arcturus with a grain of salt.

If more people would judge someone on what they know about them instead of what they've _heard_ about them, the fandom would be much better off.


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## uncia2000 (Jul 31, 2005)

*purrs da peace-loving tiggy*. thx & agreed, wholeheartedly! 

=

> SnoSno wrote:
> I'm just waiting to see everyone donate to get this really high-end server
> built, for the site to go back up for a few months, then for Jher to pull the
> plug with some lame excuse that he doesn't want to run it anymore or
> can't afford it even with donations or something.

Well, after recent experiences this /is/ a valid point, which I've /tried/ to address...

If it is *at all* possible that people who would otherwise donate choose not to do so because there's nothing to stop Jheryn just walking off with a freebie server (even more so than Arc did), that issue really *does* need to be addressed, IMHO.

That we haven't had 100 people already making this observation doesn't mean it's not an issue.
User confidence/morale is often an "invisible" thing, but as those of you who've had your eyes open whilst working in a team context will appreciate, it rarely pays to /assume/ that no comment = high confidence/good morale.

n.b. the above are intended as positive, constructive comments. Please do not take them otherwise.


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## SnoSno (Jul 31, 2005)

I would and do take things with a grain of salt, however, note, Arc pulled the plug on supporting Jher's site/pet-project and hasn't just walked off with the freebie server. Arc got tired of how Jher acted, how impulsive he is, and how often he'd treat the users of the "community" poorly and is working on making a different art site. Those who donated and paid to help Arc keep FA online while Jher did nothing to pay for his own site.

I don't know Arc well or get along with him any, so I won't be taking anything he says for granted, nor will I take what Jher says any differently. However, I have seen for myself how Jher acts and in compairson I believe that Arc is better(though only by a slim margin).

When you get a site Admin, hoping to make a big huge community for furries, but then makes all his friends staff, and makes others foot the bill for hosting and bandwidth, and procrastinates on fixing even the most little of bugs(while boasting of how skilled they are at coding), and curses at the bug hunters and testers for doing their job, you can't really expect everyone to be a sheep and blindly follow just because, "zomg, he iz teh owner!!111 & he made this waaaay kool site 4 us furries, lolz."

I am heavily reminded of a clubhouse, where, as the owner of the clubhouse, Jher is "god" and all his buddies are given special privledges.. and those who arn't in the "inner-circle" are treated like dirt; ignored, looked down on and told to sit down and shut up. Not much of a community, since real communities have voices and those with power listen.


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## ShadowST78 (Aug 1, 2005)

*Alright*

Here is some good server type specs here for an example with a good price:

Intel Pentium 4 4.0ghz dual processor with at least 939 pin
Raid 200gb SATA drives
PC4000 500mhz dual channel 2-4 gigs
Server tower case with 4 fans
2mb cache memory
500 watt power supply

price range here is about mmm ooh 2,000 mark at least if purchased from Newegg.com

My specs for an example:

AMD Athlon 3500+ (clocked at 2.2ghz) 64-bit 512kb cache 939 pin
Z-K8NSC-Gygabyte motherboard with dual bios
300 gig SATA and 300 gig ATA
1 gig dual channel PC3200 400mhz
ATI Radeon X800 AGP 8x 256mb 256 bit speed
Audigy 2 ZS
500 wat power
Server case with 5 fans

System cost: 1300$
of course this system is my gamer/media center. AMD is for more power depending on the CPU core. Pentium is more work types or servers depending onto GPU ratio. a higher pin as in 754 939 pins increases the power performance of your pc.

small note thanks and good luck


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## Donamer (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow, this whole thing is full of furry drama.  I'm sorry but I honestly don't want any part of money giving (if i had any to give anyway..), or donations of any kind if all I'm going to get is furry drama.  I honestly don't even know if I'm going to come back to FA once it's up...some people need to get mature and quick.  If you don't want anything to do with FA, stop giving the admin's crap about it.  If the site is destined to fail it will do it all on it's own without your help .  I personally want to be optimistic that the site will succeed...


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## Dragoneer (Aug 2, 2005)

> I'm sorry but I honestly don't want any part of money giving (if i had any
> to give anyway..), or donations of any kind if all I'm going to get is furry
> drama.

Then rest assured that the FA team is doing its best to give you art, NOT drama. We're trying to cut out the drama as best we can, but the subject is still something of a hot-button issue for many.

We want art, NOT the drama. Leave the drama for TNT.


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## TORA (Aug 2, 2005)

*ROWR.*

Nice to see you here, Preyfar. I hope FA comes back real soon so I could see your masterpieces again. ::wonders why Rafyerp won't respond to e-mails:: ^_^


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## Donamer (Aug 2, 2005)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> Then rest assured that the FA team is doing its best to give you art, NOT drama. We're trying to cut out the drama as best we can, but the subject is still something of a hot-button issue for many.
> 
> We want art, NOT the drama. Leave the drama for TNT.



Thankie. I look forward to it...furry drama is the pits, I have enough of my own to suffer through...heh.


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