# Wii U $50 pricedrop and Nintendo "2DS" announced.



## CaptainCool (Aug 28, 2013)

So, two things were announced today.
First of all, the Wii U gets cheaper. It's gonna get a $50 pricecut on September 20th in the USA.
Ok, nothing too fancy here so let's move along because Nintendo just gave us a prime example how to confuse your customers today...

Because they announced this:







The "2DS". 
It's essentially a regular 3DS without 3D and it's not fodable. It's gonna be released in October for about 130 bucks.

WAT.
What were they smoking when they designed this? It looks like a damn doorstop!  And what is wrong with the name? 2DS? I can already hear customers asking the same questions in electronics stores:
"Does it play DS games?"
"Does it play 3DS games?"
"But it's called 2DS! Did it come before the 3DS?"

This is simply retarded. I suppose they tried to make it look like the Wii U game tablet controller?
It's confusing, it's the same as the old 3DS and it looks fucking retarded. I can already see doorstop memes popping up...


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## Imperial Impact (Aug 28, 2013)

okay what the fuck


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 28, 2013)

How the fuck am I meant to hold that thing?

Why bring out a 2D version if the normal 3DS can be adjusted to display 2D, with literally the flick of a switch?

Why isn't foldable?

Why does it look so fucking uncomfortable?

TL;DR - What?


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## Imperial Impact (Aug 28, 2013)

You know, Why don't have more new 3DS/XL colours

but no


WE HAVE "THIS" THING HERE.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 28, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> You know, Why don't have more new 3DS/XL colours
> 
> but no
> 
> ...



Why couldn't they have made a version of the 3DS with two circle pads instead?

WHY.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 28, 2013)

Should have called it the UDS because if it works as a replacement for the WiiU they might actually quell customers who would be upset that can't just purchase replacement tablet in case one breaks. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/08/28/nintendo-2ds-impressions/2718421/

I would have preferred the clamshell design. The thing doesn't play in 3D like the 3DS - and that means some games are actually not compatible.


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## CaptainCool (Aug 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> they might actually quell customers who would be upset that can't just purchase replacement tablet in case one breaks.



I never thought about that... You really can't buy a new tablet, right?  So what do you do in case you actually do need a new one?

Nintendo is going freaking bananas...


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 28, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> I never thought about that... You really can't buy a new tablet, right?  So what do you do in case you actually do need a new one?
> 
> Nintendo is going freaking bananas...



You have to RMA it within their warranty period if you lose the tablet. They will still do repairs past the warranty but $$$. The tablet was designed for 1 per system...so that makes it more "fun" If I remember correctly it costs $150 to replace too.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/16/tech/gaming-gadgets/15-things-wii-u


> The games only support one Wii U GamePad. The Wii U comes with just one Wii U GamePad, and Nintendo isn't selling the GamePad as a separate SKU (not yet, anyway). There's been plenty of speculation about why this is, but regardless of the real reason, you'll want to be aware that wielding the GamePad is a one-person affair (though it's still possible for up to four other local players to tap into a supported game using Wii Remotes). According to Nintendo: "In the future, the Wii U console will support, depending on the software, two Wii U GamePad controllers."


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## CaptainCool (Aug 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You have to RMA it within their warranty period if you lose the tablet. They will still do repairs past the warranty but $$$. The tablet was designed for 1 per system...so that makes it more "fun" If I remember correctly it costs $150 to replace too.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/16/tech/gaming-gadgets/15-things-wii-u



I know about the whole one tablet per console thing, I just didn't think about what happens when you break it.
Either way, this whole tablet thing is bullshit. Just one per console? Come on!
There is one thing that might work with that thing though... Roleplaying^^ The DM gets the tablet!


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## lupinealchemist (Aug 28, 2013)

What... the hell?


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## DrDingo (Aug 28, 2013)

I actually like the look of the 2ds. Trouble is, it won't fit in your pocket.


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## Ketsuo (Aug 28, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> I know about the whole one tablet per console thing, I just didn't think about what happens when you break it.
> Either way, this whole tablet thing is bullshit. Just one per console? Come on!
> There is one thing that might work with that thing though... Roleplaying^^ The DM gets the tablet!



I think they said they were trying to or did get it to work with two tablet controllers but no games are currently supporting it.  I wonder if any games will ever support it though as I think it takes a good chunk of cpu power just to stream data to one of the controllers.  Since the controller is more expensive than normal controllers I don't think it was really made with using two of them at the same time in mind.  I'm still not sure if this Zelda bundle and pricedrop will be enough to get me to buy it though which is kind of bad since I'm a pretty big Zelda fan.  I don't think Nintendo has ever made a console so unappealing before.


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## Lexicom (Aug 28, 2013)

Not gonna lie, The whole 2DS thing is stupid to me...
(opinions.)


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## Judge Spear (Aug 28, 2013)

It's like a cute little Wii U pad.

*heart shaped tears* ;3;

I think this thing would honestly cater to me. Kinda wish I waited longer. I should have known better honestly. I'm almost certain that'd fit my hands better. Ya see it's not the shape of the Wii U pad, it's the fucking SIZE. This is like a mini one so it'd just be way more comfortable for my hands. Especially the L&R buttons. I haven't played a Nintendo handheld comfortably since the vanilla Game Boy Advance. 

But does it look...upside down to anyone?



Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Why couldn't they have made a version of the 3DS with two circle pads instead?
> 
> WHY.



Didn't even seem that hard. Vita did it yet no one wants to make games for it. I guess they didn't want to make the touch screen useless for the 3DS which I get.


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## CaptainCool (Aug 28, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I actually like the look of the 2ds. Trouble is, it won't fit in your pocket.



It's design just reminds me of those cheap portable games that you can get for 1 buck at those dollar stores...



Lexicom said:


> Not gonna lie, The whole 2DS thing is stupid to me...
> (opinions.)



Considering that it simply doesn't fit into the rest of the DS line (with the whole not being foldable thing) and since they gave it the most confusing name they could think of, I suppose that is a pretty valid reason to have :V


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## DrDingo (Aug 28, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Why couldn't they have made a version of the 3DS with two circle pads instead?
> 
> WHY.


Nintendo said they decided against it when designing the XL because they didn't want regular 3ds players to feel they're playing on an old, inadequate console and they have no choice but to get a bigger one for a built-in extra circle pad.


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## Digitalpotato (Aug 28, 2013)

Of course the guys who aren't inside the targeted demograph for the 2DS will think it's silly. 

So has Nintendo announced that teh 2DS will be replacing all the 3DSes? And that all the 3DSes currently out will soon be side-graded to the 2DS? 

If no... then I don't see what the fuss is.


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## Vaelarsa (Aug 28, 2013)

I wouldn't mind a 3DS that was both cheaper, and only played games in 2D mode (I don't care for 3D, myself), 
but the placement of the buttons on that thing looks like the most awkward thing in the world. So, if you're playing and need to use the touchscreen functionality, you have to inch your controller upwards to be able to do it? And then shift it back down to use the buttons? And it doesn't even fold (Why the fuck doesn't it fold!)?
Whose stupid idea was this?


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## Falaffel (Aug 28, 2013)

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=267


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## Runefox (Aug 28, 2013)

Goddammit Nintendo.

Seriously. WHY.

Jesus.

Okay, the WiiU price drop? Sorely needed.

2DS? Fucking what. Okay, so it's a DS. That plays 3DS games. That doesn't fold. Way to fuck up the DS in almost every way.

Oh my fucking god. Nintendo. This is what you do.


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## DrDingo (Aug 28, 2013)

I've just realised something. Perhaps Nintendo made it so it doesn't fold.. so that people buying it don't get the impression they're buying a downgraded 3ds, but a different console with a brand new look.


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## Falaffel (Aug 28, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I've just realised something. Perhaps Nintendo made it so it doesn't fold.. so that people buying it don't get the impression they're buying a downgraded 3ds, but a different console with a brand new look.



With that backward ass logic you should work at Nintendo.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 28, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I've just realised something. Perhaps Nintendo made it so it doesn't fold.. so that people buying it don't get the impression they're buying a downgraded 3ds, but a different console with a brand new look.



But it's meant to be portable. In a way it is a downgrade because you need to actually carry it around with you in a special bag rather than just sticking it in your pocket and having your hands free.


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## Runefox (Aug 28, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I've just realised something. Perhaps Nintendo made it so it doesn't fold.. so that people buying it don't get the impression they're buying a downgraded 3ds, but a different console with a brand new look.


Except it IS a downgraded 3DS. It would just be a sidegrade if they removed the 3D screen and that was all. But no.

Frankly this whole thing is completely stupid. It's like Nintendo is throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's the GBA Micro all over again. Except this is way bigger.


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## Percy (Aug 28, 2013)

That 2DS just seems so... awkward. The D-pad is lower than the buttons on the right... It just doesn't seem right at all. x.x
Edit: I obviously don't own a 3DS


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the 2DS is designed for kids and when you look it like that it seems alright for that demographic. 

- It's (relatively) cheap so little Timmy can easily get his mom to buy it.

- Little kids don't care about how fashionable it is and if we could manhandle a Game Boy as a kid, they can use that thing

- Kids never really cared for the 3D so it's no big deal for them

- It's fucking cheap

I'm not one to really come to Nintendo's defense but it honestly seems like a smart idea considering who they're probably going after.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 28, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> I'm pretty sure the 2DS is designed for kids and when you look it like that it seems alright for that demographic.
> 
> - It's (relatively) cheap so little Timmy can easily get his mom to buy it.
> 
> ...



Well.... I guess that makes sense.

But it's still so _weird_. It feels like something you'd read on The Onion.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 28, 2013)

It does. lol



PastryOfApathy said:


> I'm pretty sure the 2DS is designed for kids and when you look it like that it seems alright for that demographic.
> 
> - It's (relatively) cheap so little Timmy can easily get his mom to buy it.
> 
> ...




My first thought exactly. I completely agree. In fact depending on the deals, I may turn in my vanilla 3DS for one of these later down the line. I don't like the box design of most Nintendo handhelds. I like my handhelds like I like my women. Curvy. Not to mention it's a decent size And while it's got straight edges, it rounds out in the corners ESPECIALLY around the shoulders. 

The biggest detriment is the hinge being gone and not being as easily portable. But I've got a backpack anywhere I go so it's no big deal for me. And I couldn't give less of a fuck about 3D.

And also, this is an alternative. This is not in anyway meant to replace anything. The outrage is the exact same level of WTF as the XL. If you bought a regular one and think this is dumb, good. KEEP it. It's not for you. It has no game changing exclusive features. It's just a different naturally cheaper alt to two other models. The entire Gameboy line up from the original to the end went through the same motions.

But this was still hilarious even if it misses the point.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 28, 2013)

Digitalpotato said:


> Of course the guys who aren't inside the targeted demograph for the 2DS will think it's silly.
> 
> So has Nintendo announced that teh 2DS will be replacing all the 3DSes? And that all the 3DSes currently out will soon be side-graded to the 2DS?
> 
> If no... then I don't see what the fuss is.



Kinda hard to argue with this but...who is the targeted demographic? I think the major concern was brand confusion so people KNOW who it is targeted to so they can buy it.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 28, 2013)

I think I'll stick with my normal 3DS. I like having the 3D effect, despite how gimmicky it is, plus it's got stereo speakers (the 2DS only has one) and is much more portable.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 28, 2013)

I can't be the only one who thought it looks like a house.


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## Jabberwocky (Aug 28, 2013)

goddamnit. a 2DS??? really??? how about a nice hot cup of NOPE.

we dont need another brick passing as a gaming system.


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## Stratelier (Aug 28, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> It's essentially a regular 3DS without 3D and it's not fodable. It's gonna be released in October for about 130 bucks.
> 
> WAT.
> What were they smoking when they designed this?



I had the same reaction when I saw the official video on YouTube's frontpage.  I was thinking "is it April Fool's Day again?"

However, the 3D effect was always an _option_, and (particularly with the regular 3DS) the field of view is actually fairly small, which means that I can't exactly view it at more than 10-12 inches because the slightest movement of my head will throw off the effect.

Also note that the 2DS launch date, October 12th, is also *Pokemon X and Y*'s launch date.  Coincidence?  I think marketing.

And I agree that while the name is fairly intuitive, it also has the stigma of sounding "less" than the 3DS, because it sort of is.

On the plus side, this is Nintendo hardware we're talking about.  If you want to use it as a doorstop go right ahead because you'll *still* be able to play games on it later.


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## Runefox (Aug 28, 2013)

I don't really know if $130 is enough of a discount off a standard 3DS' $169 to be worth it for moms, but I guess that's still $40 less for Timmy to break. Still, used 3DS' can be that or less. Honestly it just doesn't make sense from a consumer standpoint. I would be fine with this if it kept the same clamshell design, but I guess hinges are seen as a liability for kids.

Still though. I thought people were buying their kids 3DS' anyway. I don't know where the market is coming from.

Though really. 3DS' 3D effect should have been omitted in the first place.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 28, 2013)

Someone I watch made a good point (though it hasn't swayed my opinion.

The 2DS is targeted to kids, but the screens are completely exposed...
What do kids do besides inspire stupid laws? They break everything in 2 seconds because they're dumb. :I

Just look at any 3DS at Wal-Mart. lol

Though I suppose one could argue that during play the 3DS screens are always exposed, but a lot of hazards threaten the 2DS even after the kids are finished playing. And you know they aren't gonna use that case. lol


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## Runefox (Aug 28, 2013)

Wanna feel really old?

One day, people will look back on the 2DS and think, *man, that was my first console*.


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## Drake Ukkonen (Aug 28, 2013)

Wat.


Slowly but surely satisfied with my move to only PC gaming, except for a select few Pokemon titles.


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## Falaffel (Aug 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Wanna feel really old?
> 
> One day, people will look back on the 2DS and think, *man, that was my first console*.


Oh dear lord. 
I hope this never happens.


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## Percy (Aug 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Wanna feel really old?
> 
> One day, people will look back on the 2DS and think, *man, that was my first console*.


ohgodwhy
At least it'll probably be only a select few


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## Stratelier (Aug 28, 2013)

Insert joke here.


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## Jabberwocky (Aug 28, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Insert joke here.


that's more like it.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 28, 2013)

Why is the clamshell more than a liability than open screens that could get damaged easily for $130! And yes I know they're coming out with a case, but which is easier to remind your kid to do, close the damn clamshell (which is intuitive) put the toy back in its case?


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## Judge Spear (Aug 28, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Insert joke here.



Villager approves. Gonna chop the competition. 

2DS: _Heeeere's TWO DEE!!!_
Vita: _AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!_


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## Seekrit (Aug 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Wanna feel really old?
> 
> One day, people will look back on the 2DS and think, *man, that was my first console*.


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## Digitalpotato (Aug 28, 2013)

Love the "I can't believe people will be playing something this" responses.


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## Toshabi (Aug 28, 2013)

Buy 2DS now.


Keep it in wrapping and box.



Wait 5-10 years.


Sell it when it becomes an overpriced collector's item for thousands of monies.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 28, 2013)

Digitalpotato said:


> Love the "I can't believe people will be playing something this" responses.



Doesn't look that bad honestly. If you play games on the Vita, a tablet, and especially Wii U, you look just as dumb. Which is to say you don't look dumb at all. :/


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## Toshabi (Aug 28, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Doesn't look that bad honestly. If you play games on the Vita, a tablet, and especially Wii U, you look just as dumb. Which is to say you don't look dumb at all. :/




It's fun to bash Nintendo. It's as simple as that. They're not h4rdc0r3 enough.


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## Runefox (Aug 28, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> It's fun to bash Nintendo. It's as simple as that. They're not h4rdc0r3 enough.



It's not just Nintendo that makes these bad decisions, but the decisions they do make usually are pretty bad. Take the PSP Go for a very similar example of what the fuckery.


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## Punnchy (Aug 29, 2013)

I can't say either of these announcements impresses me much.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

Actually the thing is I like Nintendo, I'm just tired of their retarded decisions. I was hyped for the WiiU, because it's like "ooh neat a drawing tablet and game thingie"  Then you find out about the price, lack of games and software. 

Nintendo is like dating a fun and interesting person with a bad case of halitosis.


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## Toshabi (Aug 29, 2013)

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayum


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## PastryOfApathy (Aug 29, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> It's fun to bash Nintendo. It's as simple as that. They're not h4rdc0r3 enough.



No they just have a habit of acting like total spastics for increasingly bizarre reasons only known to them and their grand court of senile wizards.


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## DrDingo (Aug 29, 2013)

If it doesn't fold.. Then did they get rid of the pedometer? And streetpass? Can it go into sleep mode at all?


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## Stratelier (Aug 29, 2013)

It has all the same internal functionality as the regular 3DS, just minus the 3D viewing, foldable design, and stereo speakers.



PastryOfApathy said:


> No they just have a habit of acting like total spastics for increasingly bizarre reasons only known to them and their grand court of senile wizards.


Somehow, their reasoning usually wins out.  Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, you know....


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## CaptainCool (Aug 29, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> If it doesn't fold.. Then did they get rid of the pedometer? And streetpass? Can it go into sleep mode at all?



I highly doubt those things are impossible if your device simply can't be folded :V



Stratadrake said:


> Somehow, their reasoning usually wins out.  Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, you know....



If their target audience actually buys this thing it's going to be a massive hit. That doesn't make it a good idea though^^ iPhones suck as well and people still gobble them up like candy.


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## DrDingo (Aug 29, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> I highly doubt those things are impossible if your device simply can't be folded :V


:I What's the use of a pedometer too big to fit in one's pocket?


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## Valery91Thunder (Aug 29, 2013)

> Though I suppose one could argue that during play the 3DS screens are  always exposed, but a lot of hazards threaten the 2DS even after the  kids are finished playing. And you know they aren't gonna use that case.  lol


The Game Boy, Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance had their screen exposed, and they where used by little children too. I don't remember people going spastic and saying "but what is the screen breaks?? Omg we absolutely need it to be foldable!". 
Then the GBA SP came in, but that's another story...

I like Nintendo games, but when it comes to consoles, I don't even have the strength to be shocked and outraged by it. I just let it slip by, and I'm starting to do this with every other game company that publishes hardware. This is probably why I'm still stuck at the DS. :I


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

Valery91Thunder said:


> The Game Boy, Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance had their screen exposed, and they where used by little children too. I don't remember people going spastic and saying "but what is the screen breaks?? Omg we absolutely need it to be foldable!".
> Then the GBA SP came in, but that's another story...



Back then, there were price drops where parents could afford the device due to the fact it sold highly, not to mention that screen breaking scratching was less of a problem due to the fact it's not a touch sensitive device...not to mention those displays are a bit more durable than ones today.


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## Toshabi (Aug 29, 2013)

That moment when people don't realize that Nintendo made the 2DS specifically for children and not their usual audience.


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## SirRob (Aug 29, 2013)

I can't believe they made a handheld -just- for Pokemon.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> That moment when people don't realize that Nintendo made the 2DS specifically for children and not their usual audience.



That moment when Nintendo forgets that kids want the cooler version of the toy and hate when parents give them what looks like the cheap knockoff. 

Hence why kids snag your damn smartphone, get on the shit you tell them not to get them despite trying to give them a "keep busy equivalent" 

Wonder if some of you have really been around kids?


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## Toshabi (Aug 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> That moment when Nintendo forgets that kids want the cooler version of the toy and hate when parents give them what looks like the cheap knockoff.
> 
> Hence why kids snag your damn smartphone, get on the shit you tell them not to get them despite trying to give them a "keep busy equivalent"
> 
> Wonder if some of you have really been around kids?



Too bad the overly cautious parents are going to be the ones actually making the purchase.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> Too bad the overly cautious parents are going to be the ones actually making the purchase.



Overly cautious about what? A $30 price difference? I remember seeing the 3DS go as little as $150, right now they're running anywhere from $160 new to $180.

The 2DS looks less "safer" and kid friendly than the 3DS

The problem is less about hardware, and yes I know people bitching about how it's not the best graphics of whatnot, but the problem is the lack of games. Putting out new hardware when there's few games. Pokemon may help them out but confusing models doesn't help consumers, especially pushing a "kid friendly device".


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## Runefox (Aug 29, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Somehow, their reasoning usually wins out.  Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, you know....


Didn't win out in the following cases:



SNES-CD
Nintendo 64
Virtual Boy
Game Boy Advance (original model)
GBA Micro
Gamecube
WiiU


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## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

Valery91Thunder said:


> The Game Boy, Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance had their screen exposed, and they where used by little children too. I don't remember people going spastic and saying "but what is the screen breaks?? Omg we absolutely need it to be foldable!".
> Then the GBA SP came in, but that's another story...
> 
> I like Nintendo games, but when it comes to consoles, I don't even have the strength to be shocked and outraged by it. I just let it slip by, and I'm starting to do this with every other game company that publishes hardware. This is probably why I'm still stuck at the DS. :I



Bad argument. Who cares what was done in the past? It wasn't an issue because no one thought about it like...EVERYTHING we use today. They evolved to a better design that all but eliminated the problem so why would you want to go backwards? How did you NOT think of this? And I'm not going spastic, I'm giving as many sides to this as I can to keep the discussion going. I for one am actually FOR this alternative device.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Didn't win out in the following cases:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't forget the 3DS.

See the thing is people realize it's doing better - but Nintendo had to "wreck the grade curve" The unit was priced too high and had to slash the prices to get sales, and re-evaluate their estimates on how many units would sell. Now that they redid that from what they originally had spec'd people says "no look it's doing good" 

No it's doing better from the initial failure.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

I love how people were compensated for buying it at $250 with games no one else can get. lol
Though I don't care since I can get GBA games on my PSP.


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## Runefox (Aug 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Don't forget the 3DS.



I was actually going to include it in the list, but I was pretty sure I'd get Phoenix Wright'ed again so I left it off. I'll probably get PW'd anyway though for including the N64, Gamecube and GBA in the list because people have beloved memories of those consoles despite being commercial failures and major contributors to Nintendo's current stand-off with third party developers and need to retreat into different market segments to remain 'competitive'.

Also? I don't care who the intended market is for this thing. That's deflecting from the broader issue. I think a conversation I had on IRC best describes the situation:



> <Whuf> Luigi is their president
> <Whuf> (he doesn't exist and whenever someone questions him or his design choices they're thrown into the pit)
> <Runefox> That is the most logical explanation for all of this


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I love how people were compensated for buying it at $250 with games no one else can get. lol
> Though I don't care since I can get GBA games on my PSP.



Actually I believe those games you can get, they just got it before anyone else and for free.



> Starting Sept. 1, Nintendo 3DS Ambassadors will be able to download 10 NES Virtual Console games at no charge and before they are available in the Nintendo eShop to the general public. These games, including Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong Jr., Balloon Fight, Ice Climber and The Legend of Zelda, are slated to become paid downloadable games, but Ambassadors get them early for free. Once the paid versions of the games are posted to the Nintendo eShop later in the year, the updated versions will be available to Ambassadors for download at no cost.


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## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Actually I believe those games you can get, they just got it before anyone else and for free.



The GBA games aren't on the eShop. Not when I was looking through last week anyway.


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## Toshabi (Aug 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Overly cautious about what? A $30 price difference? I remember seeing the 3DS go as little as $150, right now they're running anywhere from $160 new to $180.
> 
> The 2DS looks less "safer" and kid friendly than the 3DS
> 
> The problem is less about hardware, and yes I know people bitching about how it's not the best graphics of whatnot, but the problem is the lack of games. Putting out new hardware when there's few games. Pokemon may help them out but confusing models doesn't help consumers, especially pushing a "kid friendly device".



I know I know, but the parents I have in mind are the ones saying 3D will strain their eyes and how kids break consoles with clam shell designs due to them bending them the wrong way.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> The GBA games aren't on the eShop. Not when I was looking through last week anyway.



Oh my bad, you meant the GBA games... some reason I was thinking only the downloadable 3DS ones.

Yeah those are exclusives.



> By the end of 2011, Nintendo will provide Ambassadors with 10 Game Boy Advance Virtual Console games. These include items like Yoshiâ€™s Island: Super Mario Advance 3, Mario Kart: Super Circuit, Metroid Fusion, WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$ and Mario vs. Donkey Kong. These games will be available exclusively to Ambassadors, and Nintendo currently has no plans to make them available to the general public on the 3DS in the future.



Which yeah doesn't matter imo if you can find other ways to play them - I think that move hurts more than helps.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh my bad, you meant the GBA games... some reason I was thinking only the downloadable 3DS ones.
> 
> Yeah those are exclusives.
> 
> Which yeah doesn't matter imo if you can find other ways to play them - I think that move hurts more than helps.



I see Phalanx wasn't on that list. >:c
Ambassadors got ripped off. lol

But, yes. It is kinda pointless because of emulation. But then Nintendo fans will pretend their games are holy with "EMULATION IS ILLEGAL!!! Is not the same as playing on console!!!" even though VC is emulation and Nintendo makes no money from GBA games anymore anyway, buuuuut that's another rant.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> even though VC is emulation and Nintendo makes no money from GBA games anymore anyway, buuuuut that's another rant.



what are you talking about vc is not emulation NINTENDO lovingly remade each game with support to SAVE WHEREVER YOU WANT id like to see you do that with an emulator*

*I have had this conversation.


----------



## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Aug 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> what are you talking about vc is not emulation NINTENDO lovingly remade each game with support to SAVE WHEREVER YOU WANT id like to see you do that with an emulator*
> 
> *I have had this conversation.



Exact quote or words to that effect?


----------



## Runefox (Aug 29, 2013)

Sutekh_the_Destroyer said:


> Exact quote or words to that effect?



It happened a while ago, but each of the points were said specifically.


----------



## DrDingo (Aug 29, 2013)

I do actually think that the 2ds has potential. It's being released before Christmas time, so parents will buy it for their young children. Little kids won't care about what it looks like, and it doesn't matter whether it would fit in their pockets anyway, as some of them would be too tiny to have trousers with big enough pockets. If they want to take it out in public, they'd just give it to their Mum or something who would put it in their handbag and carry it for them. Lots of thought has gone into it, I think. They're targeting the huge market of young kids, and it'll work.


----------



## Toshabi (Aug 29, 2013)

Nintendo disabled comments and the like/dislike counter on their Nintendo 2DS video. LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWL!


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Ambassadors got ripped off. lol


Not anywhere near as much as they would have been had they got nothing for early adopting, which is what generally happens with game systems and price drops....



Toshabi said:


> Nintendo disabled comments and the like/dislike counter on their Nintendo 2DS video. LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWL!



You know fans can't be trusted to accuratetely critique something so controversial, just look at DmC.



SirRob said:


> I can't believe they made a handheld -just- for Pokemon.


Yeah, that release date is definitely a marketing move.



Runefox said:


> what are you talking about vc is not emulation NINTENDO lovingly remade each game with support to SAVE WHEREVER YOU WANT id like to see you do that with an emulator*


Isn't the difference obvious?  The VC emulator/platform belongs to Nintendo, they make money off the sales.  Unlike pretty much every other emulator package you can find on the Internet.

It's not whether or not it's an emulator, it's _who owns it_.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Not anywhere near as much as they would have been had they got nothing for early adopting, which is what generally happens with game systems and price drops....



...

I said they got "ripped off" because they didn't get Phalanx The Enforce Fighter on the list of GBA games Arshes listed. In other words...

I was joking 100% and didn't mean what I said.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 29, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I do actually think that the 2ds has potential. It's being released before Christmas time, so parents will buy it for their young children. Little kids won't care about what it looks like, and it doesn't matter whether it would fit in their pockets anyway, as some of them would be too tiny to have trousers with big enough pockets. If they want to take it out in public, they'd just give it to their Mum or something who would put it in their handbag and carry it for them. Lots of thought has gone into it, I think. They're targeting the huge market of young kids, and it'll work.



I dunno what kids you've been around...but no they care. That's why advertising gets very specific towards that demographic about brands and stuff. It's the same reason they get pissed off when you give them a leapfrog when they want to play with your iPad.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

I'd be pissed too. Leapfrog has shit graphics. lol


----------



## Runefox (Aug 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I'd be pissed too. Leapfrog has shit graphics. lol



To be fair, so does the 3DS.

BUUUUUUURRRRRRN


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 29, 2013)

Runefox said:


> To be fair, so does the 3DS.
> 
> BUUUUUUURRRRRRN



He's right.
The only clear option for handheld play.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Aug 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> He's right.
> The only clear option for handheld play.



Bitch please.


----------



## Percy (Aug 29, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Bitch please.


Gizmondo has inferior graphics.
Clearly the game.com's blurry mess is best.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 29, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Bitch please.



How adorable.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Aug 30, 2013)

Runefox said:


> How adorable.



Wanna play hardball?


----------



## Percy (Aug 30, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Wanna play hardball?



Wow, that's so obscure that I haven't heard about it.
Probably still better than the 2DS. :V


----------



## Falaffel (Aug 30, 2013)

Percy said:


> Wow, that's so obscure that I haven't heard about it.
> still better than the 2DS.  :V


Ftfy


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Villager approves. Gonna chop the competition.
> 
> 2DS: _Heeeere's TWO DEE!!!_
> Vita: _AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!_



_The next day:_






:I
:I

So would anyone like to know the winning numbers today or any answers on future exams?


----------



## Seekrit (Aug 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So would anyone like to know the winning numbers today or any answers on future exams?



Tell me the answer to question eight on the third exam I will take in 2014.


----------



## Taralack (Aug 30, 2013)

No WiiU pricecut in Australia, and the 2DS is $180 here. 'STRAYA


----------



## Seekrit (Aug 30, 2013)

Toraneko said:


> No WiiU pricecut in Australia, and the 2DS is $180 here. 'STRAYA



The sad part is people will read that post and judge your entire country by it because NOTHING is more important than GAMING.


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 30, 2013)




----------



## CaptainCool (Aug 30, 2013)

After putting more thought into this instead of just going "WAT":
If they aim with this thing for kids only and if they sell it as an "entry level handheld" for a younger audience, and as far as I can tell that's exactly what they do, this thing IS a brilliant idea.
Parents don't buy their kids a 3DS because the 3D effect can hurt their eyes. The 2DS has no 3D. Kids are also a little rougher with their stuff so often the hinges of the original DS broke. The 2DS has no hinges. Plus it's cheap.
If they actually make a proper marketing campaign for this the 2DS is gonna be a massive hit, no matter how stupid it looks.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 30, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Parents don't buy their kids a 3DS because the 3D effect can hurt their eyes.


[citation needed]

It was a big deal when the 3DS was first released, but I see kids running around with them anyway; I haven't really heard of any uproar over the 3D effect burning eyeballs out of late. Not to mention the fact that you can disable the 3D effect altogether via parental controls.



> The 2DS has no 3D. Kids are also a little rougher with their stuff so often the hinges of the original DS broke. The 2DS has no hinges. Plus it's cheap.


That's true, but people still bought their kids DS's. Just like they still buy their kids 3DS's. I just don't see where the market is for this. The whole idea that this is aimed towards young children assumes that young children don't already have one and their parents are scared to death that they'll kill themselves with 3D imagery. I don't think many parents honestly look at the 3DS and say "you know what, this is something that will break easily"; They'll look at it and say "oh, that's a toy. It's built for that." If you believe most parents look deeper into it than that, then you also believe that most parents don't buy their children Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto.

EDIT:

TransformerRobot made another topic containing only this link that got deleted pretty quickly. Here's my response.

Why did this need a new topic?

Also, all of that was basically  "hurp durp you don't have to buy it so shut up" except the way Nintendo  is going they're just digging a deeper and deeper hole that they're  probably going to regret. As a Nintendo fan, decisions like the 2DS  enrage me because it is absolutely the wrong decision to make at the  wrong time. Nintendo's products already have huge identity issues, and  honestly they haven't really done much of anything right console-wise in  the past two decades except the GBA SP and the DS Lite. It sucks though  because the more people defend this shit, the more it'll happen, and  the worse trouble Nintendo is going to be in.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 30, 2013)

People still bought the Wii too... despite http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 30, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Tell me the answer to question eight on the third exam I will take in 2014.



Captain Falcon.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Captain Falcon.



Answer the exam question with this and earn infinite internets.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 30, 2013)

Runefox said:


> EDIT:
> 
> TransformerRobot made another topic containing only this link that got deleted pretty quickly. Here's my response.
> 
> *Why did this need a new topic?*



That's why I deleted it. We have a thread already and he could have simply added to it.

The problem is more of a "Why release more hardware when you don't have too many games for it."


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 30, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Parents don't buy their kids a 3DS because the 3D effect can hurt their eyes.





			
				Nintendo said:
			
		

> http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp?menu=3ds&submenu=ctr-doc-health-safety
> 
> "Viewing of 3D images by children 6 and under may cause vision damage."


The concern is not shared by everyone.



Arshes Nei said:


> The problem is more of a "Why release more hardware when you don't have too many games for it."



You can never have "too many games" on a system.

(Well, almost never.)


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 30, 2013)

At first I thought this was stupid, but thinking about it, the 3D part of a 3DS was sort of a gimmick that I don't think people use much. Added to this, the device is more affordable and the lack of foldability and the single speaker give some people an incentive to buy the 3DS instead.

Not a bad decision.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 30, 2013)

Oh my God, haven't seen you in ages. I thought you were blasted by a Cranassian Payak Colossus Tekniikan. But the Chili battles again. O-O


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 30, 2013)

Now that I think about it, the 2DS has actually about the same height and button placement as the Wii U Gamepad.  And the gamepad feels like angels dancing in the palm of your hands.

Not anywhere near the pinch-grip required to hold and use the DS Lite or 3DS....


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> haven't seen you in ages. I thought you were blasted by a Cranassian Payak Colossus Tekniikan. But the Chili battles again. O-O


The Chili continues his battle!

I had to go back to school for senior year. (I go to a boarding school. Or something like that)
Figured it was best that I don't visit this site while at school since the internet is monitored there.

But I'm home for the weekend. So here I am!


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 30, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Now that I think about it, the 2DS has actually about the same height and button placement as the Wii U Gamepad.  And the gamepad feels like angels dancing in the palm of your hands.
> 
> Not anywhere near the pinch-grip required to hold and use the DS Lite or 3DS....



I seriously think this would be the most comfortable thing for me from Nintendo since ol' faithful. I'd say the Wii U gamepad is comfy, but it's too fat, thick, and hefty.

...shut up.

The 2DS is the perfect size and grip as it looks so far. Can't wait to try it. Only thing is, it's been immortalized as stupid now so I'd most definitely be seen as an idiot if I brought it out in public. lol
Not that I'd mind much.


----------



## Percy (Aug 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> The 2DS is the perfect size and grip as it looks so far. Can't wait to try it. Only thing is, it's been immortalized as stupid now so I'd most definitely be seen as an idiot if I brought it out in public. lol
> Not that I'd mind much.


I feel like I'm going to end up buying it just to have it/Pokemon reasons. I was never interested in the 3DS and it's 3D gimmick.


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I'd say the Wii U gamepad is comfy, but it's too fat, thick, and hefty.


Relative to its size, the Gamepad is not hefty at all.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 31, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Relative to its size, the Gamepad is not hefty at all.


But it's still hefty, and that makes using it a little cumbersome. This issue is far more exaggerated with the Razer Edge tablet/controller hybrid, and basically it makes it harder to make precise motions with your thumbs when you're expending that much more effort to hold it. The WiiU controller weighs 1.1lbs, while the 360 controller weighs 0.58lbs and the PS3 controller weighs only 0.43lbs for the DS3, 0.30lbs for the Sixaxis.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 31, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Relative to its size, the Gamepad is not hefty at all.



I went through Ninja Gaiden 3 on that damn thing. I think I'd know if I find something to be hefty. lol
Even if it wasn't, it's still fat and thick. :c


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 31, 2013)

The Wii U gamepad really is a little bit heavy at times.
I don't own one yet but a friend does and playing Earthbound on it was uncomfortable.

If this Nintendo 2DS winds up as comfortable to hold as a Wii U gamepad but without all the weight, this thing might actually be kind of comfy to use.

Though to me the 2DS looks weird.


----------



## Ji-Ji (Aug 31, 2013)

Who does the finance for Nintendo?  
Who does R&D?

Sometimes I wonder how Nintendo are still a massive business, maybe they like to piss money away?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Aug 31, 2013)

This might explain the 2DS.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 31, 2013)

Ji-Ji said:


> Who does R&D?



Doesn't exist lol.

This is the company whose president said he didn't know there was a fanbase for one of their bigger franchises (F-Zero). XD



TransformerRobot said:


> This might explain the 2DS.



Sounds like Maddox. lol


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> This is the company whose president said he didn't know there was a fanbase for one of their bigger franchises (F-Zero). XD


I didn't know there was much of a fandom for F-Zero before hanging around you guys.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 31, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> I didn't know there was much of a fandom for F-Zero before hanging around you guys.



Well, you're one person (not to put you down). :<
 This is an international multimillion dollar company. THEY should see it. And there obviously is one if the game sold for the 14 years it was alive. lol


----------



## TransformerRobot (Aug 31, 2013)

Interesting...

Well, at least it's not Virtual Boy.


----------



## Ji-Ji (Aug 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Well, you're one person (not to put you down). :<
> This is an international multimillion dollar company. And there obviously is one if the game sold for the 14 years it was alive. lol



They must've had an inkling if Captain Falcon has been in the Smash series from the start no? 
Although they put jigglypuff in so my statement stands on weak legs.


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 31, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Well, you're one person (not to put you down). :<
> This is an international multimillion dollar company. THEY should see it. And there obviously is one if the game sold for the 14 years it was alive. lol


This is true. They should definitely know about their own properties and how people feel about it.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 31, 2013)

I don't think Nintendo could ever have a failure as big and swift as the VB. Not even the Wii U and it _almost_ seems like they're TRYING to have that fail. 2DS'll be fine even with it's stupid name.



Ji-Ji said:


> They must've had an inkling if Captain Falcon has been in the Smash series from the start no?
> Although they put jigglypuff in so my statement stands on weak legs.



His death had 4.5 million views on YouTube (before they yanked it in their newfound and ABSURD Internet phobia). That should say enough.


----------



## Ketsuo (Aug 31, 2013)

F-Zero is a series that could definitely improve with another game but I don't know if Nintendo really cares since they know it won't sell as well as their other top racing franchise, Mario Kart, and don't want to spend the time on it because of that.  I think Miyamoto said in an interview once that he doesn't see what else they can do with the series but I don't feel thats the case at all as adding online play alone would be a big addition to the series and thats just one no brainer idea to implement.  

I don't think the 2DS or Wii U will outright fail either.  With the 2DS its library is already good and still growing.  The lower price point will help it sell and while it loses portability maybe they're thinking that since people carry around tablets nowadays that they won't mind something bigger like this that they can just tote around with them in a bag.  The Wii U is definitely struggling in its first year and with the PS4 and Xbox One releasing later this year the struggle is likely to continue.  It may end up a lot like the GC (though maybe a bit worse off) which got a decent number of good games and wasn't an outright failure but still didn't do too great sales wise.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Aug 31, 2013)

Why DID the GameCube fail? I still don't understand that when it had such an impressive library.


----------



## Ketsuo (Aug 31, 2013)

I don't really consider it a failure either but I'd say it gets that flack due to underwhelming sales and a lack of support like the PS2 got.  I think it sold less than the N64 which also kind of got creamed by the PS1 sales wise.  The PS2 was huge that generation though so it was going to be hard for Nintendo to beat it.


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 31, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Why DID the GameCube fail? I still don't understand that when it had such an impressive library.



It didn't "fail", not objectively speaking, it just came in last place among its console generation, like when you finish 8th place in a game of Mario Kart.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 31, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Why DID the GameCube fail? I still don't understand that when it had such an impressive library.



It didn't really have an impressive library. The mini-DVD media, combined with a general reputation for "kiddie" appeal (the thing was PURPLE and looked like a lunch box) and the Nintendo 64's complete shunning of third party developers made what was essentially a pretty OK console into a failure in the console race.


----------



## Judge Spear (Aug 31, 2013)

I fucking loved the Gamecube. So many ambitious games. ;w;



Ketsuo said:


> they know it won't sell as well as their other top racing franchise, Mario Kart



As much as their fans swear they're a messiah, they're just a corporation like eeeeveryone else. :3


----------



## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Aug 31, 2013)

I don't see myself purchasing two Wii's duct taped together with more memory until Nintendo drops the price to around 250, honestly. However, the Windwaker HD bundle might get me to consider otherwise. I still might end up buying Smash Bros for the system even if I don't own a Wii U.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 31, 2013)

Ketsuo said:


> I don't think the 2DS or Wii U will outright fail either.  With the 2DS its library is already good and still growing.  The lower price point will help it sell and while it loses portability maybe they're thinking that since people carry around tablets nowadays that they won't mind something bigger like this that they can just tote around with them in a bag.  The Wii U is definitely struggling in its first year and with the PS4 and Xbox One releasing later this year the struggle is likely to continue.  It may end up a lot like the GC (though maybe a bit worse off) which got a decent number of good games and wasn't an outright failure but still didn't do too great sales wise.



Fail can mean 2 things. Whether or not the system will make the projected sales units put out by Nintendo. In that case the 3DS failed that upon Launch as well as the WiiU so depending on their predictions for the holidays that's one kind of failure.

The other failure is its standing among other consoles. If I remember PS4 and Xbox One have record pre-orders higher than their previous launches. So that is something to consider.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Aug 31, 2013)

Hopefully Nintendo can recover some of it's lost ground with it's fourth quarter of the year line-up.


----------



## veeno (Aug 31, 2013)

Goddamn it makes my hands hurt looking at the fucker.


----------



## Stratelier (Aug 31, 2013)

ShÃ nwÃ ng said:


> I don't see myself purchasing two Wii's duct taped together with more memory until Nintendo drops the price to around 250, honestly.


October 12th, mark the date.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Well, at least there are *some* good news for the Wii U, for once.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

...That was pretty terrible. :I


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Well this might be a less terrible idea:

-Somehow make the Wii U more powerful.

Don't ask me how that would work, I'm not an engineer or programmer.


----------



## Seekrit (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well this might be a less terrible idea:
> 
> -Somehow make the Wii U more powerful.
> 
> Don't ask me how that would work, I'm not an engineer or programmer.



Even if that were possible there'd still be no games for it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 1, 2013)

Am I the only one that hates these "slideshow" mags in terms of news now? They do it so they can add more advertising money clutter up the page with other crap making it more distracting to even go through. Don't forget the raping of eyes with proliferating social sharing buttons and slide ins and pop outs.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Seekrit, you need to learn patience then.

That, and/or Nintendo should've released the Wii U at a better time, when there would be a bigger and better line-up for it.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Am I the only one that hates these "slideshow" mags in terms of news now? They do it so they can add more advertising money clutter up the page with other crap making it more distracting to even go through. Don't forget the raping of eyes with proliferating social sharing buttons and slide ins and pop outs.



What does that have to do with what we're talking about? (Sorry, double post glitch)


----------



## Seekrit (Sep 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Am I the only one that hates these "slideshow" mags in terms of news now? They do it so they can add more advertising money clutter up the page with other crap making it more distracting to even go through. Don't forget the raping of eyes with proliferating social sharing buttons and slide ins and pop outs.



No, they are fucking awful. I'll take my articles in list form tyvm.



TransformerRobot said:


> Seekrit, you need to learn patience then.
> 
> That, and/or Nintendo should've released the Wii U at a better time, when there would be a bigger and better line-up for it.



Botboy, don't tell me to be patient. I _am_ patience. Any reason to want a Wii U lies in the future, not the present. It offers nothing that other consoles/pc can't do better.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Botboy, don't tell me to be patient. I _am_ patience. Any reason to want a Wii U lies in the future, not the present. It offers nothing that other consoles/pc can't do better.



That's what they said about the Wii, but look at what it did compared to it's competitors. And by the way, I'm 22 years old.


----------



## Seekrit (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> That's what they said about the Wii, but look at what it did compared to it's competitors. And by the way, I'm 22 years old.



Botman makes you sound like a Mega Man character, and by Jove you don't deserve that. 

Part of the reason the Wii did so well was because it was unique; motion control was a new concept for the majority of people and it sold well. It also managed to produce a decent amount of games in the first year. I couldn't even _get_ one in my country it was so popular, had to order it from Germany. Now compare that to the Wii U.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

Robot, that's the excuse of a Nintendo fantard. Be patient? Are you even joking? Would you spend hundreds to build a desktop PC and wait two years before getting your operating system letting it be a vegetable in that time? No?

COURT ADJOURNED.


----------



## Seekrit (Sep 1, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Robot, that's the excuse of a Nintendo fantard. Be patient? Are you even joking? Would you spend hundreds to build a desktop PC and wait two years before getting your operating system letting it be a vegetable in that time? No?
> 
> COURT ADJOURNED.



What a delicious analogy.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Part of the reason the Wii did so well was because it was unique; motion control was a new concept for the majority of people and it sold well. It also managed to produce a decent amount of games in the first year. I couldn't even _get_ one in my country it was so popular, had to order it from Germany. Now compare that to the Wii U.



Yes, the Wii U doesn't seem as unique.

Although it does have things for it like off-TV play and 5 players at once. Other than that, yeah. Nintendo needs to bring out their next killer app pronto (If only they hadn't given away Rare, that majorly screwed things up).


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> What a delicious analogy.



It's almost exactly the same thing. A PC CANNOT be used without Windows/MacOS/Linux/etc. And consoles CANNOT be used with no games. The use of either of these is inarguably contingent upon it's software. You pay $350 for a paper weight? How dare someone tell Wii U owners they need patience or someone in the market for one as well. No Nintendo needs to hurry the fuck up. You gave THEM money for something next to useless. Robot wouldn't be the first to say this. Nowhere near it.

Anyone with a Wii U has every right under the sun to bitch, moan, whine, and cry about no games.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

All else I do is whine, bitch and moan, and it gets me nowhere.


----------



## Falaffel (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Seekrit, you need to learn patience then.
> 
> That, and/or Nintendo should've released the Wii U at a better time, when there would be a bigger and better line-up for it.



Hah. 
Haha. 
Maybe i should link this again. http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=267

Also why would we need to be patient for them? Are you kidding me? They're supposed to keep us happy as we're the paying customers.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> All else I do is whine, bitch and moan, and it gets me nowhere.



It got the XBox One's DRM and mandatory Kinect usage removed. It can get Nintendo's ass in gear. Problem is, most people think they do no wrong so not enough are saying anything.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Hah.
> Haha.
> Maybe i should link this again. http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=267
> 
> Also why would we need to be patient for them? Are you kidding me? They're supposed to keep us happy as we're the paying customers.



Because of this quote from Shigeru Miyomoto:

"A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is bad forever."


----------



## Runefox (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Because of this quote from Shigeru Miyomoto:
> 
> "A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is bad forever."


Duke Nukem Forever.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Duke Nukem Forever.



That quote was from before Duke Nukem Forever, which is an exception.


----------



## Falaffel (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Because of this quote from Shigeru Miyomoto:
> 
> "A delayed game is eventually good. A bad game is bad forever."


But Duke Nu-


Runefox said:


> Duke Nukem Forever.


Oh you beat me.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> But Duke Nu-
> 
> Oh you beat me.



Now you know how I feel.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> That quote was from before Duke Nukem Forever, which is an exception.



How convenient...


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Well go ahead and see if you can find another game that was delayed repeatedly and came out horribly in the end. There aren't too many from what I've heard.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)




----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> What does that have to do with what we're talking about? (Sorry, double post glitch)



Because you're using it as a source. So it has to do with the topic. It's an awful annoying article.


Second, telling people to be patient when there are no games for it. You know how long it took PS3 to even catch up and be acceptable? It had a hard learning curve for its software design architecture. It didn't help that it had a high price tag. It did have backwards compatibility with PS2 games but it ended up having more problems which is why they dropped it and provided games over their PSN. The other slight saving grace for it was its BluRay capabilities. Even that was a bit difficult because not many were keen on bluray when dvd was still good enough, and now with streaming people care less about it. However as a media server it's still one of the better ones around. You can now use it for netflix, amazon prime, vudu and other services without having to pay extra unlike Xbox. 

It took years for Sony to catch up and learn. That's when Nintendo should have been taking note. Learn from other's mistakes...not repeat them.

In addition, there's no valid reason, *not to have a good library of games* at launch and continuing. It's pretty ridiculous to build something with a purpose and not have that purpose ready. People should build add ons to their home and have empty rooms? Nintendo builds hardware and no games? What sense does that make? 

"Hi I built this really cool unit that can do all this stuff"

"You go some good demos to show this off"

"Well that's in development"

No wonder consumers are confused as to why to buy a new unit that also had a high price and not to mention people were upset to find out they couldn't buy a spare tablet after showing it off so much, and the sticker shock in fixing that tablet if it breaks.

They should have had a *brand new Zelda game* ready at launch. I know that usually puts asses in seats. Instead its *remakes of already existing Zelda titles*.

Just like people were upset they didn't see a sequel to FF7 when PS3 was showing tech demos using an updated demo of that game.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> They should have had a *brand new Zelda game* ready at launch. I know that usually puts asses in seats. Instead its *remakes of already existing Zelda titles*.








Please...


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Well, I have been waiting for there to be a Wario and Waluigi spin-off. That way Waluigi is less of a useless side character.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well, I have been waiting for there to be a Wario and Waluigi spin-off. That way Waluigi is less of a useless side character.



Still not putting asses in seats.

pokemon may save their handhelds which is what they're still hanging onto at the moment. October coming it will likely people will opt for the 2DS/3DS handheld and save the money for the bigger consoles like PS4 and XboxOne which have had massive preorders.

Sony may have made mistakes with the PS3 and Vita but every one of their consoles and hand held are in the top 10 of selling all time. Vita is a massive failure right now only sitting 2 million units.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Well also in October we'll get Sonic Lost World, and in September The Wonderful 101. That might help.


----------



## Falaffel (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well also in October we'll get Sonic Lost World, and in September The Wonderful 101. That might help.



Mm yes.
Another Sonic game.
I'm so.......... 
Uh.... 
Excited? I guess?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Falaffel said:


> Mm yes.
> Another Sonic game.
> I'm so..........
> Uh....
> Excited? I guess?



Your response.....
Yeah, it was...
I don't know, kind of funny?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well also in October we'll get Sonic Lost World, and in September The Wonderful 101. That might help.



One or two releases won't change things; In particular, The Wonderful 101 received only average reviews in Japan so far, and in fact is actually tanking commercially. A Sonic game probably won't speed sales either unless it turns out to be amazing, if only because of the stigma Sonic games carry (deservedly or not). There are literally more than three times as many releases happening on the PS3 in October (the WiiU's got a whopping 13), and many of the releases for the WiiU in that period are games that are either already out on other platforms or are cross-platform. The best single game with any chance to increase Japanese sales is probably (unfortunately) the Dragon Quest X re-release.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

If only some of us worked with Nintendo higher-ups, then we could influence them to make better decisions with games and hardware.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

Sonic is the only console moving game coming out soon (regardless of whether he's liked or not). Because guess what Sega's doing with the game? ADVERTISING. Advertising an extremely popular and iconic IP exclusive to Nintendo consoles. 
It may not be millions of units, but it'll definitely be something.

It's sad really. HE'S the one spearheading Nintendo's launches of all things. Sonic the fucking Hedgehog. :I


----------



## Falaffel (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Your response.....
> Yeah, it was...
> I don't know, kind of funny?



Raawr, fiesty.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> They should have had a *brand new Zelda game* ready at launch. I know that usually puts asses in seats. Instead its *remakes of already existing Zelda titles*.


But muh ALttP sequel


----------



## TrishaCat (Sep 1, 2013)

To be honest all the games I want on Wii U still aren't out yet. (X, Zelda Wii U, Smash Bros)
If I got a Wii U it'd be so I can play Wii games until Wii U games I care about come out.

To be fair to Nintendo though, it seems like nothing these days is released with good games right from the start.



Imperial Impact said:


> But muh ALttP sequel


Its a sequel, so its kind of a new game. Though the overworld looks a little too similar to the original...


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

Then someone should make an effort to step up to the plate and change that. lol



Imperial Impact said:


> But muh ALttP sequel



ALttP 1.5! Can't wait! O{}O

I'm still gonna get it but looking more into it, it doesn't look too special as it sounded. :<


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> To be fair to Nintendo though, it seems like nothing these days is released with good games right from the start.



What happened to the Nintendo we used to know.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> What happened to the Nintendo we used to know.



*Iwata happened.*

Seriously. Most of this happened when Iwata took over. The N64 and its third party unfriendliness was a product of an ill-advised experiment by then-CEO Hiroshi Yamauchi to increase the quality of games released for the platform; Instead, it had the opposite effect. That's why there was focus with the Gamecube in being easy to program for, but the damage had already been done. From there, Satoru Iwata took over.

Yamauchi presided over Nintendo from the beginning of its video game efforts, from Donkey Kong all the way up to the Gamecube.



> Following the announcement of the Wii U  and the price cut of the Nintendo 3DS, Nintendo shares fell to 12,290  yen, the biggest drop since 2009. Yamauchi is estimated to have lost  $312 million USD (approximately 24.2 billion yen).


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 1, 2013)

But I thought firing Iwata would just do more harm than good.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> But I thought firing Iwata would just do more harm than good.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 1, 2013)

Battlechili1 said:


> To be fair to Nintendo though, it seems like nothing these days is released with good games right from the start.



I dunno, PS4 has some good launch titles like Watch Dogs, Killzone Battlefield 4, and the one exclusive that I've been looking at that looks to be a hell of a lot of fun is Knack
http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4/PlayStation_4_Launch_Titles

Within then Transistor will be coming out which I'd look forward to.



XoPachi said:


>



[yt]Y9KyBdPeKHg[/yt]


----------



## Jabberwocky (Sep 1, 2013)

I see the potential in the PS4.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 1, 2013)

Batsy said:


> I see the potential in the PS4.



You better.



Arshes Nei said:


> Vid



I swear I can't choose between that or The Room. rofl


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

I only see a little potential in the PS4, mostly because all I've seen in Sony's first-party titles is murky environments splattered with blood and generic shooters, and how they left powerhouses Crash Bandicoot and Spyro out to die.

Also, just found this article. At first I was skeptical in reading it since, you know, IGN, but then it made me think differently about the situation.

Most of you are probably saying "New games need more open sandbox environments with graphics on steroids and unlimited interactivity!!". Ask yourself why that's so.

Maybe Nintendo is trying to enter the culture of retro-style gaming. Look at Minecraft for god's sakes; a modern game with clearly retro-style graphics. The New Super Mario Bros. games are modern games with modern graphics, but with retro-style gameplay and elements.

But that's at least my new standpoint. What about you?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

I can't face palm any harder.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I can't face palm any harder.



This is what I get for trying to bring an intelligent discussion to this thread.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I only see a little potential in the PS4, mostly because all I've seen in Sony's first-party titles is murky environments splattered with blood and generic shooters, and how they left powerhouses Crash Bandicoot and Spyro out to die.
> 
> Also, just found this article. At first I was skeptical in reading it since, you know, IGN, but then it made me think differently about the situation.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure why First Party matters. I think good games people want to buy for the system matters. From the years with Sony, there was quite a few titles out there that weren't about blood or FPS (and I'm tired of FPS games myself).

The article is trying to apologize on Behalf of Nintendo and forgot a lot of Wii's success was the fact it was a party console. Wii U is trying to sell itself as what? An upgraded Wii? What would make those upgrade better? A tablet that has the capability of having people go away? It's counter intuitive to the Wii's success. Basically the tablet's biggest premiere and thought to people was "oh now I can watch the football game and tell my little kid to go the fuck away because he can play it on his tablet" 

It's a tablet people would fight over at a party game. The other demo of that "hide and seek" is only one player gets the tablet the others hide. A beat-em-up like Smash Brothers is more entertaining because people are on the same playing field with the Wiimotes.

Wii's greatest strength wasn't online Multiplayer so much as being able to have multiplayer at parties. Its accessories made this more apparent which Sony and MS tried to copy with motion control. For the Wii it was being able to take this Wii (which was much less hefty and sensitive like an Xbox which was heavy, and PS3 where it was expensive and had possibilities of damaging your bluray. ) take it to a friend's house and watch your friend look goofy with the wiimote and 'chucks. 

WiiU doesn't know what it wants to be, it isn't actually showing me innovation. The other title it is also getting is Bayonetta, which is overly sexual and violent. So complaining about "murky violent shooters" is hypocritical when it was pushing that it got Bayonetta 2.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm not sure why First Party matters. I think good games people want to buy for the system matters. From the years with Sony, there was quite a few titles out there that weren't about blood or FPS (and I'm tired of FPS games myself).
> 
> The article is trying to apologize on Behalf of Nintendo and forgot a lot of Wii's success was the fact it was a party console. Wii U is trying to sell itself as what? An upgraded Wii? What would make those upgrade better? A tablet that has the capability of having people go away? It's counter intuitive to the Wii's success. Basically the tablet's biggest premiere and thought to people was "oh now I can watch the football game and tell my little kid to go the fuck away because he can play it on his tablet"
> 
> ...



Thank you. This is the first intelligent argument I've heard all day in this thread. 

So, getting to an earlier topic, is Nintendo's struggles Iwata's fault? Should he step down as global president?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Thank you. This is the first intelligent argument I've heard all day in this thread.
> 
> So, getting to an earlier topic, is Nintendo's struggles Iwata's fault? Should he step down as global president?



Excuse me, but you've made very little effort to bring intelligent arguments to this thread at all. 
There have been many discussions that have been reasonable and intelligent in this thread.

We don't need you on your high horse being a nanny and insulting the intelligence of other members here. You want intelligent discussion, make it. Stop doing these 1 line posts, then an article because you're not intelligent enough to have your own opinion, but rather that of game articles.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Excuse me, but you've made very little effort to bring intelligent arguments to this thread at all.
> There have been many discussions that have been reasonable and intelligent in this thread.
> 
> We don't need you on your high horse being a nanny and insulting the intelligence of other members here. You want intelligent discussion, make it. Stop doing these 1 line posts, then an article because you're not intelligent enough to have your own opinion, but rather that of game articles.



When I said "all day" I meant "The day I made my previous post.".

I've tried to bring intelligent discussions, I really have, but no matter what I say it gets dismissed as idiocy, even when it's not idiocy.

I don't know anymore why I even bother to type anything at all, it'll just make me look like a fool. Just like Nintendo is starting to look foolish for not making good enough decisions with their products.

By the way, I am intelligent enough to have my own opinion, I just have to make it by looking at things related to the topics at hand.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

"all I've seen in Sony's first-party titles is murky environments splattered with blood and generic shooters, and how they left powerhouses Crash Bandicoot and Spyro out to die."

Guess Knack, Puppeteer, and Infamous are Call of Duty now...

And there's definitely far more reasons why people are choosing the PS4 over anything else this gen. For starters, it's not Microsoft.
The PS4 is slightly more powerful than the already powerful XBox One with mostly the same features the One sports...for $400. That's $50 more than the underpowered Wii U launched for with a baffling amount of more power. Power that yes, matters. It'll be getting the third party support that Nintendo shunted off or missed out on. It will get Watch Dogs, Titanfall, Destiny, Mirror's Edge 2, Kingdom Hearts 3, Doom 4 (depending on it's dev cycle). Engines like Unreal and Frostbite that Nintendo's hardware literally can't handle.

It didn't come out of the gate like MS with bullshit DRM (regardless of the reversal, MS has DESTROYED fan loyalty, smugly). It's not shoving a $150 dollar gimmick down your throat like the Kinect and Wii U gamepad that shoots up the fucking price for people that don't want to use it. They've not talked about games that won't even be completed the day they come out like fucking Forza V. 

Even as a corporation who has fucked up in the past, they showed that this time, as far as we're concerned, they are pro consumer AND pro developer. Where as Microsoft is trying to fuck it's fans and Nintendo wants to be the rich kid who shows off their new toy and doesn't fucking share. 

Again, at a reasonable price point.

But I feel your pain with Crash and Spyro...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> "all I've seen in Sony's first-party titles is murky environments splattered with blood and generic shooters, and how they left powerhouses Crash Bandicoot and Spyro out to die."
> 
> Guess Knack, Puppeteer, and Infamous are Call of Duty now...
> 
> ...



Yet there is teasing of a new Jak and Daxter game for PS4
There is also another Ratchet and Clank but not for PS4 yet

There may not be a Spyro (yet) but Skylanders is for PS4 http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/07/skylanders-swap-force-confirmed-for-xbox-one-playstation-4
Looks pretty colorful to me.

Also there have been very colorful games on PS3 for a long while. Journey is still one of the best games I had the pleasure of playing. I also tried Flower and Flow from ThatGameCompany. Katamari is also another series I've enjoyed on Sony. We had Parappa, and Big Little Planet. 

Let's look the company who made Crash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naughty_Dog nice list of games of varying degrees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomniac_Games also nice list of games - and they partner with Naughty Dog

Then people might be surprised by lesser known titles but by SSMS  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Santa_Monica such as below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohokum


[yt]VSZ0cLRJWqk[/yt]

[yt]rUWwUajxLak[/yt]

Then again one other thing is I'm ok with game companies leaving you with wanting more of a title, than "ANOTHER X SEQUEL?!" So I'd rather some of these companies leave off or let things go out on a high note than people groaning over another Mario or Sonic game


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yet there is teasing of a new Jak and Daxter game for PS4
> There is also another Ratchet and Clank but not for PS4 yet
> 
> There may not be a Spyro (yet) but Skylanders is for PS4 http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/07/skylanders-swap-force-confirmed-for-xbox-one-playstation-4
> ...



I know, I just want a new Crash Bandicoot game after so long.

Okay, so maybe there could be less groaning if Nintendo only releases only 1 Mario game in one year next year? I'm interested to see how that would work out. It could leave opportunities open to expand on lesser known Nintendo properties *points at Star Fox*. Or better yet, start a new Nintendo property altogether (Miyomoto said he's working on one but he won't tell us more).


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

Dude, NaughtyDog ABANDONED Crash after Tomb Raid- I mean after they entered the film indu- I MEAN _when they made Uncharted_ and started swimming in dat green. Sad, but I don't think Crash is on their mind anymore.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Dude, NaughtyDog ABANDONED Crash after Tomb Raid- I mean after they entered the film indu- I MEAN _when they made Uncharted_ and started swimming in dat green. Sad, but I don't think Crash is on their mind anymore.



And it's not like they haven't abandoned platforming with quirky looking characters at all.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

What else did they have?


----------



## Ketsuo (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I only see a little potential in the PS4, mostly because all I've seen in Sony's first-party titles is murky environments splattered with blood and generic shooters, and how they left powerhouses Crash Bandicoot and Spyro out to die.
> 
> Also, just found this article. At first I was skeptical in reading it since, you know, IGN, but then it made me think differently about the situation.
> 
> ...



The playstation's strength doesn't necessarily lie with its first party games but rather with the third party support it gets.  The ps4 seems to be continuing that trend while Nintendo is missing out on a lot of 3rd party support yet again with the Wii U.  Games like MGSV, FFXV, KH3, etc. will help drive sales for the PS4 while Nintendo is probably going to be stuck relying mostly on their first party games.  The PS4 is offering a strong and efficient console along for what I think is a very reasonable $400 so its in a good position and I don't see how you can't see that.  I'm not sure what Nintendo's plans are with the Wii U.  They're seemingly reluctant to embrace online features which are normal for everyone else.  They promised to implement a universal account system for online purchases but still haven't delivered on it.  I don't think they're trying for a retro style since they're always saying they want to deliver new unique experiences but who knows.  I don't mean to hate on Nintendo as I am a fan of many of their games but I've just been pretty disappointed with a lot of the things they've done in recent years and its kind of disheartening to see that nothing is really changing with that.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

Ketsuo said:


> *I don't mean to hate on Nintendo*.



Criticism, pointing out grave problems=/=hate. 

So you're fine.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Criticism, pointing out grave problems=/=hate.
> 
> So you're fine.



Two things:

1. I don't know what =/= means, because I haven't seen it used very often.

2. Maybe the 2DS isn't a complete embarrassment like we thought.

But hey, I'll have to wait until I can try it myself, like I plan to with the PS4.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> 1. I don't know what =/= means, because I haven't seen it used very often.


"not equals".  It's literally an equals sign with a slash through it ( â‰  ), the way it gets actually written down on paper.  But for the C minded folks, it's basically an alternate way to write != .


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1. I don't know what =/= means, because I haven't seen it used very often.
> 
> ...



What do you mean "we"? I was siding with it from the start of this thread. :/


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> What do you mean "we"? I was siding with it from the start of this thread. :/



I wasn't there. XD

"Nintendo needs to do what Sony and Microsoft are doing with their consoles."

No shit, Sherlock.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> 2. Maybe the 2DS isn't a complete embarrassment like we thought.



It's not really that big an embarrassment, more like a rather ugly device which has little purpose. I still say if they wanted to make a 3DS that didn't have the 3D, they should have stuck with the existing form factor. It doesn't really make sense from a manufacturing standpoint, and I'm pretty sure the only market this thing has is to eat into used 3DS sales (it's priced accordingly). I'm pretty sure the "concerned parents" market does not exist in any capacity.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

Well, as Arshes pointed out, it has less moving parts with the removal of the rather robust hinge (I sound like fucking Linus Tech Tips). I'm just gonna assume that the materials to make it also slightly added to the cost.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Well, as Arshes pointed out, it has less moving parts with the removal of the rather robust hinge (I sound like fucking Linus Tech Tips). I'm just gonna assume that the materials to make it also slightly added to the cost.



You mean to the regular 3DS and 3DS XL, right?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

Yes.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 2, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Well, as Arshes pointed out, it has less moving parts with the removal of the rather robust hinge (I sound like fucking Linus Tech Tips). I'm just gonna assume that the materials to make it also slightly added to the cost.



More raw material, but they have to run a separate production line for the 2DS, whereas a 3D-less 3DS could be assembled using the same chassis that's already being produced. This would make sense if the 2DS were a successor system (like the DS Lite), but in this case it's a logistically worse situation.


----------



## Jabberwocky (Sep 2, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> This is what I get for trying to bring an intelligent discussion to this thread.



boo hoo. dont cry over spilt milk.


----------



## Falaffel (Sep 2, 2013)

Batsy said:


> boo hoo. dont cry over spilt milk.


Especially when it's not even milk...


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 2, 2013)

Runefox said:


> More raw material, but they have to run a separate production line for the 2DS, whereas a 3D-less 3DS could be assembled using the same chassis that's already being produced. This would make sense if the 2DS were a successor system (like the DS Lite), but in this case it's a logistically worse situation.



I didn't even think about that, but Big N is sitting on STACKS (that while I still like the 2DS, those stacks could have gone to some fucking Wii U games).

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=lmQtWB3Mz7w

hope that link works.


----------



## Digitalpotato (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I didn't even think about that, but Big N is sitting on STACKS (that while I still like the 2DS, those stacks could have gone to some fucking Wii U games).
> 
> EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=lmQtWB3Mz7w
> 
> hope that link works.



You mean the game devs they publish are working on the 2DS instead?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=lmQtWB3Mz7w
> 
> hope that link works.



"I'm a college student, I don't have a lot of money to play Pokemon" because obviously $30 difference on this  $130 unit is "saving a lot of money"


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 3, 2013)

I mainly posted that for a point you made earlier they reinforced. The hinge. He said moms were coming up to him saying they were glad there was a lack of moving parts (something to that effect).


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 3, 2013)

Runefox said:


> More raw material, but they have to run a separate production line for the 2DS, whereas a 3D-less 3DS could be assembled using the same chassis that's already being produced. This would make sense if the 2DS were a successor system (like the DS Lite), but in this case it's a logistically worse situation.


No, I don't think that's the case.  It's been noted that the 2DS's two screens are actually one component, which means they don't require a specialized production line for the lenticular screen (and who knows how expensive that is).  Nintendo makes a profit margin on (almost) every piece of hardware they've ever produced . . . if it was more expensive to manufacture the 2DS then it wouldn't be hitting the market in two months.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 3, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> No, I don't think that's the case.  It's been noted that the 2DS's two screens are actually one component, which means they don't require a specialized production line for the lenticular screen (and who knows how expensive that is).  Nintendo makes a profit margin on (almost) every piece of hardware they've ever produced . . . if it was more expensive to manufacture the 2DS then it wouldn't be hitting the market in two months.



_AND STRATADRAKE WITH THE REBUTTAL!_

(O-O ) *Looks over to Rune*

Anything you can say to defend yourself?! That's some pretty sound logic!


----------



## Runefox (Sep 3, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> No, I don't think that's the case.  It's been noted that the 2DS's two screens are actually one component, which means they don't require a specialized production line for the lenticular screen (and who knows how expensive that is).  Nintendo makes a profit margin on (almost) every piece of hardware they've ever produced . . . if it was more expensive to manufacture the 2DS then it wouldn't be hitting the market in two months.


I'm not saying it's more expensive to manufacture the 2DS; I'm saying that a 3DS using the same screen setup as the 2DS would be cheaper to manufacture by a fairly wide margin than mass-producing a new chassis alongside the 3DS. Instead of producing a single type (or two in the case of the XL), they're now producing another, which requires separate production. While the screens won't need separate production, the chassis will, and assembly will require a separate production line as well. Instead of simply using the chassis design that they are already producing / already have stockpiled and simply exchanging one screen type for another, they've completely rebuilt the unit. While I'm sure they'll make money with it, it's a strange direction to take, especially considering the 2DS looks different enough from a 3DS that some could mistake it for a new console altogether.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 3, 2013)

But if they used the same parts, would that too cause confusion? Even greater so? It'll make things more ambiguous. If this is targeting kids and parents are out to buy it for them, there's not a shred of doubt that a parent would make the mistake in picking up the wrong one. I say this as someone who's lived with parents guilty of such a thing. >w<

So a different style would be much easier for them to pick up. Three models that look so much alike makes a little less sense, to me anyway.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I mainly posted that for a point you made earlier they reinforced. The hinge. He said moms were coming up to him saying they were glad there was a lack of moving parts (something to that effect).



So it's safer for the really stupid kids out there? =P


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 3, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> So it's safer for the kids out there? =P



All kids are stupid! \:3/
So yes.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> All kids are stupid! \:3/
> So yes.



I wouldn't say they're all stupid. Just the ones who watch Dora.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 3, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I'm not saying it's more expensive to manufacture the 2DS; I'm saying that a 3DS using the same screen setup as the 2DS...


...would require the whole thing to be a lenticular screen WITH touchscreen capability, which is certainly not impossible but definitely a bit more production cost...


----------



## angelicwolf98 (Sep 3, 2013)

Well, this idea could be similar to the gameboy player, if any one remembers that. For those who don't it was an attachment that allowed you to play gameboy games on the GameCube. The 2ds could be used as a way to play ds games on the Wii U.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I mainly posted that for a point you made earlier they reinforced. The hinge. He said moms were coming up to him saying they were glad there was a lack of moving parts (something to that effect).



Oh I know. How many moms go to PAX game shows though? Other than ones that probably work in the industry? I know parents who hand their kid their iPad or or other tablet and cell phone only to come back with many broken screens. So I'm just a bit skeptical on how widespread this hinge problem is. 

Considering how people were confused by the name and design. I think there will still be confusion as to what it does, who is it for and why. There were already spaghetti on the wall arguments, "it's for little kids" "it's for college students".  If I remember correctly the 3Ds is about $103 little more or less to make. This one says - http://venturebeat.com/2011/03/24/nintendo-3ds-costs-at-least-101-to-make-sells-for-249/

Given that the 3DS is barely out it also kinda says "our 3DS is POS" which is why people are questioning the brand confusion. When you release new product too soon it can have an opposite effect.


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## DrDingo (Sep 3, 2013)

I know the 2ds is partly being advertised as a budget Â£110 version for people short of cash, but for people buying consoles to play X and Y on release it's just gonna be cheaper to buy a secondhand 3ds from a local game shop for Â£100. Considering a secondhand 3ds is a little cheaper, more portable and generally nicer, it'd be better value just buying a secondhand 3ds, even if you never use the 3d.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 3, 2013)

angelicwolf98 said:


> Well, this idea could be similar to the gameboy player, if any one remembers that. For those who don't it was an attachment that allowed you to play gameboy games on the GameCube. *The 2ds could be used as a way to play ds games on the Wii U.*



What.

I mean, that'd be nice, but how exactly would that work? There's no WiiU integration with the 2/3DS for game streaming. If anything, the tablet controller will simply enable DS titles to be Virtual Console-ized instead because buying games twice = $$$.

Also, fuck the Game Boy Player. *Super Game Boy*.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 3, 2013)

UMMMM Excuse me Runefox, don't make me end your life!!! Sanic Advance 2, F-Zero Maximum Velocity, and Minish Cap on the tele!?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> UMMMM Excuse me Runefox, don't make me end your life!!! Sanic Advance 2, F-Zero Maximum Velocity, and Minish Cap on the tele!?


Wii+VisualBoyAdvance GX.

I never had a Gamecube nor GBA. :V


----------



## lupinealchemist (Sep 3, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Wii+VisualBoyAdvance GX.
> 
> I never had a Gamecube nor GBA. :V



I named my external Wii drive the "Nintendonomicon."


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## Judge Spear (Sep 3, 2013)

Dude a hacked Wii can do anything. D:
Fucking Playstation 1 games and Brawl textures with custom music? Wonder if the Wii U got any good hacks. But I suppose that's a topic for another day.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 3, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> "I'm a college student, I don't have a lot of money to play Pokemon" because obviously $30 difference on this  $130 unit is "saving a lot of money"


But $30 is $30.  That's like a month's worth of ramen.

Or three drinks at Starbucks.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 3, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> But $30 is $30.  That's like a month's worth of ramen.
> 
> Or three drinks at Starbucks.



Money they're gonna blow on Pokemon to play it


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 3, 2013)

And the better ramen, too - the kind that comes in microwavable plastic bowls.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Sep 3, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Dude a hacked Wii can do anything. D:
> Fucking Playstation 1 games and Brawl textures with custom music? Wonder if the Wii U got any good hacks. But I suppose that's a topic for another day.



It probably will eventually, although Nintendo has been getting a bit wiser as far as people fucking with their systems.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 3, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> And the better ramen, too - the kind that comes in microwavable plastic bowls.



They won't if they blow it on getting the Pokemon games.


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## Stratelier (Sep 3, 2013)

I must be lucky then.  Store I work at is almost at 365 consecutive days without an injury/accident, if we reach that milestone everybody gets a $50 gift card (in my case, translation: free Pokemon game).


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 6, 2013)

*after finally realizing it* I haven't seen anybody out there counting *digital* sales for Wii U games. Maybe on that front it's not as bad as I thought.

*after looking at this article* Well I've got a question for the author of this article; If Nintendo stops making consoles, then *what the bloody hell are they gonna make up all those lost console making jobs for?* Nintendo as a developer can't rely solely on handheld systems.

Sure, the original GameBoy has sold less than 120 million units (combined with GameBoy Color sales), the GameBoy Advance around 86 million units, and now the Nintendo DS has passed 150 million units. With that aside, if Nintendo stopped making consoles we'd only have notable entries from Sony and Microsoft, and the console market would start to go off balance with one fewer console manufacturer. It's like how we can't have Disney as the only one to churn out beloved animated films, so we later got DreamWorks, Illumination, and now even Sony Pictures Animation.

Yes, there are Nintendo toys and board games, but I don't know enough the toy and board game economy to see any good coming out of Pokemon plushies or Mario Chess.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 7, 2013)

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/09/04/japan-wii-u-sales-plummet-under-7k-3ds-remains-best-seller/

The irony is almost beautiful. When a console from Nintendo is doing worse than the Vita, there's a problem so disproportionate it makes TehSean's porn look realistic. I can see the damage control, empty promises, and vapid apologies from Iwata now. XD
And it won't change until Mario Kart and Smash Bros come out. NEXT year. Sonic will help some, but not enough, I think. 

God I hope this picks up. I don't wanna see this system fail (though some would rightfully argue it already has).


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 7, 2013)

Maybe Nintendo can recover their current losses with the Wii U by making more toys and board games, unless that's a bad idea.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 7, 2013)

What losses again?  Nintendo sells hardware for a profit (true, the Wii U is sold at a loss but said loss is equivalent to one game sale -- and who buys a system without at least one game?).


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm just worried that Nintendo is gonna struggle financially if the Wii U keeps suffering in the market like this. What if the 3DS and Pokemon X and Y aren't enough to keep Nintendo in the black?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 7, 2013)

Keep in mind, I never say Nintendo is doing bad financially. I say the *Wii U* is doing horrendously.


----------



## DrDingo (Sep 7, 2013)

Problem with the Wii U is, the big games that people want are coming next year. If some big ones came out near Christmas this year, it could do the sales some good.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 7, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> What losses again?  Nintendo sells hardware for a profit (true, the Wii U is sold at a loss but said loss is equivalent to one game sale -- and who buys a system without at least one game?).



Keep in mind Nintendo is supposed to also have an earnings report. It's not just about making a few bucks off their hardware. It's about making those projected earnings. Your investors want growth, not "oh but we're not losing money on the hardware".

It's funny that people think the PS3 will die because of the launch of PS4 in that article. Since the system is not backwards compatible more people will buy the older system (and look for a smaller model - like what happened with the PS2) to keep playing their library, or people who never got the PS3 will get it now because of the the price. I mean they didn't stop producing PS2s till just earlier this year. It's not like a smartphone - people don't drop their consoles as quickly as a new iPhone release


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 7, 2013)

I didn't get the people who were surprised about the PS3 sales either. As if they missed a generation. lol


----------



## Runefox (Sep 7, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's funny that people think the PS3 will die because of the launch of PS4 in that article. Since the system is not backwards compatible more people will buy the older system (and look for a smaller model - like what happened with the PS2) to keep playing their library, or people who never got the PS3 will get it now because of the the price. I mean they didn't stop producing PS2s till just earlier this year. It's not like a smartphone - people don't drop their consoles as quickly as a new iPhone release



I like to tease friends of mine about this when they say "FUCK I JUST GOT A PS3 WHY ARE THEY RELEASING A NEW ONE I WILL NOT BUY IT". Of course the PS3 will be supported for some time to come, though I doubt many games will be released for it after the first year of PS4 production. Honestly though, I'm a little surprised that major new titles are being worked on for the PS3 even now considering the hype around the PS4 launch. That said, eventually, Gaikai will replace the physical hardware, at least in Sony's roadmap. I imagine that PS3 consoles will be discontinued around the same time that rolls out to maximize adoption. After all, you buy a console once, you pay for a streaming service forever.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 8, 2013)

What do you make of what this guy said?:

"
The last six years have been terrible for *Nintendo*'s (NASDAQOTH: NTDOY  )  shareholders. After peaking in 2007 with a market cap near $85 billion,  Nintendo has steadily collapsed and has now lost over 76% of its value  over the last five years.
 Unfortunately, this could be the beginning of the end for the once iconic video game company.*Apple*'s (NASDAQ: AAPL  ) coming entrance into the video game market, a fairly likely possibility, could signal the end of Nintendo.
*Nintendo's business model is becoming obsolete*
Ironically  enough, Apple and Nintendo have similar business philosophies. Both  believe in marrying hardware with software, and maintaining strong  control over their devices. Consumers buy Apple devices to get access to  their operating systems (iOS, Mac OS); likewise, gamers buy Nintendo's  consoles to play Nintendo's games.
 But  because Nintendo is strictly a gaming company, it is increasingly  unable to compete with its more diversified rivals. Nintendo's latest  console, the Wii U, is underpowered compared to the upcoming PlayStation  4 and Xbox One. At the same time, Nintendo's online services -- an  increasingly important part of the modern video game experience -- have  been widely criticized.
 While *Sony* pushes into streaming games and *Microsoft* bets  on the power of the cloud, Nintendo's latest console looks almost like a  relic of a foregone era. Is it any wonder that sales of the Wii U have  been so poor? From April through June, Nintendo sold just 160,000 Wii Us  -- less than the 210,000 the original, 7-year old Wii sold.
 Nintendo's  savior has been its handheld, the 3DS. Since May, the 3DS has outsold  all other video game consoles in the US, and has been one of the top  selling consoles in the world. In addition to the console itself, 3DS  game sales have also been strong.
*Apple is moving into video games*
Nevertheless,  Nintendo's future looks to be dire. While many might be inclined to see  Sony and Microsoft as dooming Nintendo, Apple stands as a far more  menacing threat.
 For a while now, Apple has been making gaming a more prominent focus of its iOS efforts. Strategically, this makes sense: According to a Business Insider study,  43% of the time people are on mobile devices, they're playing games.  When it introduced the iPad 3, Apple dedicated an entire portion of its  presentation to the gaming capabilities of the tablet. But as any gamer  knows, touch screens are far from ideal -- without buttons and  joysticks, games are limited in their complexity.
 Enter  iOS 7. The next update to Apple's mobile operating system, set to be  released this fall, includes support for third-party controllers. An iOS  device, combined with a controller, would make a formidable hand-held  gaming console. But Apple's efforts could even extend to the living  room. Apple executives, including Steve Jobs and current CEO Tim Cook,  have hinted quite strongly that Apple is planning to release a  television set. Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster believes consumers  will be able to buy Apple's TV sometime in 2014.
 A  TV with iOS and controller support could wreck havoc on the existing  video game industry, at least according to one of the creators of  original Xbox, Nat Brown. Apple's iTunes open model software makes the  process of creating and publishing games easy for developers, and  bringing that model to the living room could be a tremendous success.
*The importance of the casual gamer*
While  Brown believes that Apple could threaten the entire video game  establishment, Nintendo in particular would be exposed. In general,  Nintendo's games tend to appeal to a more casual audience, the sorts of  gamers that would be inclined to play on an Apple TV.
 Some  of the most popular games for the Wii -- Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit  -- were simplistic games that appealed to a casual, non-core audience.  More competitive online games like Madden and Call of Duty did not sell  many copies on the Wii.
*Avoid Nintendo*
Since  its peak in 2007, Nintendo's management has executed poorly. Compared  to the Wii, the Wii U has been a tremendous failure, and sales of  Nintendo's console should not be expected to improve, as competition is  only set to intensify.
 The  biggest threat could come from Apple, a company that has shown interest  in getting into gaming. iOS is already a major gaming platform, and  Apple could expand that dominance. Apple's decision to add controller  support to iOS 7, coupled with a widely expected television set, could  make the Cupertino tech giant a formidable foe, particularly to  Nintendo, a company that continues to rely on both casual gamers and the  handheld market -- one area where Apple would excel.
 For now, investors should avoid Nintendo."

Kind of makes me feel sick.


----------



## DrDingo (Sep 9, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> What do you make of what this guy said?:
> 
> "
> "
> ...


Nintendo might take a hard hit, but there is no way they're going to go bankrupt or become obsolete. They are just making much less _profit _than before. Hopefully the 3ds and the coming of Christmas can keep them going until the Wii U finally gets console-selling games next year and onward. About Apple, I admit I am actually making this post on an iPad, but.. I wouldn't buy an apple console that plays apps on my TV. I see no appeal.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 9, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> About Apple, I admit I am actually making this post on an iPad, but.. I wouldn't buy an apple console that plays apps on my TV. I see no appeal.


What makes a potential Apple console unappealing? Is it the notion that the games would be super simple like most iDevice games? Because they wouldn't have to be, especially with the controllers they're developing.

Remember: The exact same thing was said about a Microsoft console back when the rumour mill was churning on the original XBox.

Besides, Apple entered the game console arena *way* before Microsoft did.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 9, 2013)

I'll wait for the day that TF actually sits down and writes a paragraph of *his own thoughts* and not copypasta and linkage from other sites. It's not fair to ask us for discussion but all you bring is other people's discussions and none of your own.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 9, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> Nintendo might take a hard hit, but there is no way they're going to go bankrupt or become obsolete. They are just making much less _profit _than before. Hopefully the 3ds and the coming of Christmas can keep them going until the Wii U finally gets console-selling games next year and onward. About Apple, I admit I am actually making this post on an iPad, but.. I wouldn't buy an apple console that plays apps on my TV. I see no appeal.



Neither would I.

Also, I just looked at Atari founder Nolan Bushnell saying Nintendo is falling into irrelevance, I think he said because of the Wii U crisis.

If you ask me Bushnell seems butthurt just because Atari's not relevant anymore. When was the last major Atari game released anyway?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 9, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> If you ask me Bushnell seems butthurt just because Atari's not relevant anymore. When was the last major Atari game released anyway?


Why would Bushnell be butthurt about that? Atari as he knew it hasn't existed in *three decades*. It's pretty hard to stay butthurt for that long.

Atari as a brand has been waved around since then in various different ways, originally as a continuation of the original Atari brand under Jack Tramiel up until the Jaguar, and then as a publishing label. It's been a publishing label since the Jaguar died, but that hasn't meant anything; The brand has changed hands a number of times and was only used for the mindshare. There hasn't been an actual "Atari" entity since 1996.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 9, 2013)

If I were him I'd still be upset about how Atari has gone down the drain from his perspective.

I don't want Nintendo to end up a lowly publisher like Atari or Sega, because that would make them look less profitable to investors, taken less seriously by consumers, and without hardware development they'd be barely scraping by.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 9, 2013)

That's like getting mad that VCRs are becoming irrelevant. Things change - it happens. Really though, Nintendo should be evaluating other avenues than just being afraid of technology. If IBM reacted like Nintendo now, they wouldn't be around for over 100 years


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 9, 2013)

But it might not work if Nintendo switches what type of industry they're in. How would they fare if they switched from making game consoles to making toys? With big wigs like Hasbro and Mattel in play they'd be crushed after their first year of toy production.

Worse yet, what if they end up selling most of the company to Disney, Apple, Microsoft, or even *shudders* Viacom. It would kill them, just like Rare's partnership with Microsoft is killing that developer.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 9, 2013)

Except I never said they should switch to making toys, though they should get better licenses to sell toys and related merchandise imo. They are afraid of current technology that is here that could help sell their products. 

I mean there's fan stuff like this: http://twistedsifter.com/2012/05/super-mario-fish-tank-aquarium/

http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/posts/460/58/58460/1361327399-0.jpg

http://www.etsy.com/listing/1567098...gn=pets_high&gclid=CMPx4buVv7kCFbF_QgodbD8Atg


But that's besides the point there are smartphones, computers and other things to still help push product. They stubbornly want to stick to their own methods instead of at least branching out a bit.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 9, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> But it might not work if Nintendo switches what type of industry they're in. How would they fare if they switched from making game consoles to making toys? With big wigs like Hasbro and Mattel in play they'd be crushed after their first year of toy production.


Uhh. Thing is, Nintendo's not primarily in the business of making game consoles. They're in the business of making *games*. Their consoles are merely showcases for their games. A Nintendo game on any other console is still a Nintendo game.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 9, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Except I never said they should switch to making toys, though they should get better licenses to sell toys and related merchandise imo. They are afraid of current technology that is here that could help sell their products.
> 
> I mean there's fan stuff like this: http://twistedsifter.com/2012/05/super-mario-fish-tank-aquarium/
> 
> ...



Then we need to write to them and say that they should try stuff like that. If enough people do it they'll cater to the audience.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 9, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Then we need to write to them and say that they should try stuff like that. If enough people do it they'll cater to the audience.



Who is "we"? if it is that important you do it.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 9, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Who is "we"? if it is that important you do it.



I just thought you should do it to since you suggested it.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 9, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uhh. Thing is, Nintendo's not primarily in the business of making game consoles. They're in the business of making *games*. Their consoles are merely showcases for their games. A Nintendo game on any other console is still a Nintendo game.


Ironic that a Nintendo game on any other console would be a game used to showcase the hardware, like Sony or MS.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 9, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Ironic that a Nintendo game on any other console would be a game used to showcase the hardware, like Sony or MS.



Nintendo had games on non-Nintendo consoles before, but I don't know how well they did.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Nintendo had games on non-Nintendo consoles before, but I don't know how well they did.


Nintendo licensed Zelda and Mario on the CD-i, but we all know how that turned out. Weren't developed or even really _seen_ by Nintendo, so not a huge surprise.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

I know that, but I was referring to the early 80s ports of Donkey Kong and Mario Bros.

Also, I just found this study on not just the sales of Nintendo consoles and portables, but also for ones by Sony.

I still think it's the fault of tablet and mobile phone games.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

This was something I was talking about before. I said that the mobile market is replacing consoles in time and budget - not so much that they're a direct competitor for console games. If younger generations are more happy about playing simple games on Facebook with their friends, it's less time and need to spend on a console or portable. I feel portables may be in more trouble because of this than home consoles (for the moment). Generally people only want to carry around a certain amount of portable devices, mp3 player, cell phone, tablet, portable game. Then you have kids who will want to do more things with a tablet or smartphone and a console still doesn't connect as well as a PC. So the kid may have found out about Steam - and just has a PC and mobile device. 

Of course the argument I got was "people won't play Call of Duty on a mobile phone or tablet" - which wasn't my point. It was a matter of people changing their entertainment habits in general.

However, that being said - XboxOne and PS4 break pre-order records and also sell out at a lot of brick and mortar stores - http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/xbox-one-and-ps4-break-amazon-pre-order-records-during-e3/

That part is not being recorded by the sales chart posted by Kotaku. 

What also may be part of the decline are HDTVs. The consoles provided a gateway for apps like Netflix, Youtube, and other streaming through their devices. TVs have been becoming cheaper and cheaper to replace and coming with the same features a console had. Sony having a blu ray player and those apps kept it around for a fairly good amount of time as a streaming device and blu ray. With Streaming there may be an eventual decline - http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/05/blu-ray-discs-we-re-not-dead-yet/index.htm but Blu Ray is still about.

People zoned out at E3 when Sony was talking about content providing - but Sony isn't "totally stupid" they need to push more content since hardware isn't their strongest point. Sony is finally making a profit on their PS3 because they changed the parts out. Not sure how they're going to do with the cost of PS4. But being able to sell hardware at a profit is not the only issue, you need to sell content. Where Microsoft is strong in servers and PC apps, Sony is strong in entertainment content.

Nintendo...doesn't have another venue of content providing because they only provide games.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

If only Nintendo had other venues besides providing games.

Most of their pre-video game businesses failed, so it sounds hard to determine what other ventures they'd go into.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> If only Nintendo had other venues besides providing games.
> 
> Most of their pre-video game businesses failed, so it sounds hard to determine what other ventures they'd go into.



It doesn't have to so much as learn to work with new technology.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

Things just got worse. -_-

And worse. More and more kids going to mobile devices instead of consoles and handheld gaming systems. The world we've grown up in is dying.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Things just got worse. -_-
> 
> And worse. More and more kids going to mobile devices instead of consoles and handheld gaming systems. The world we've grown up in is dying changing.



Fixed.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Fixed.



Still feels like dying to me.

Too many people turning to mobile devices will result in the console and handheld system market collapsing. If only we could do something to keep that from happening.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

It will just change. It's up to companies to produce the hardware or strike deals with companies.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It will just change. It's up to companies to produce the hardware or strike deals with companies.



Maybe, but I don't see Nintendo making deals with Apple, now that Apple has announced the Nexus Orbit.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Maybe, but I don't see Nintendo making deals with Apple, now that Apple has announced the Nexus Orbit.



Ok this doesn't make sense. If consoles are dying why would an announcement of another console kill consoles. That's kinda "huh?" there.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Maybe, but I don't see Nintendo making deals with Apple, now that Apple has announced the Nexus Orbit.


... You mean Google. And it wasn't announced.

Why does Google and/or Apple potentially releasing a console mean anything bad? Not to mention that the Nexus Orbit isn't an actual product, just an imagining by a product designer.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ok this doesn't make sense. If consoles are dying why would an announcement of another console kill consoles. That's kinda "huh?" there.



That's not what I meant.

What I meant was that Nintendo wouldn't be able to make a deal with Google if Google is releasing their own console to compete in the market.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> That's not what I meant.
> 
> What I meant was that Nintendo wouldn't be able to make a deal with Google if Google is releasing their own console to compete in the market.



And why not exactly?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> What I meant was that Nintendo wouldn't  be able to make a deal with Google if Google is releasing their own  console to compete in the market.



The only reason this would be true is because Nintendo's current  home console and marketing strategies aren't working. They aren't; But  Nintendo's not competing in the market at all right now with the WiiU  anyway, so it's true regardless of a Google console's existence. A Google console wouldn't kill the PS4 or the XBOne; At best, it would nestle into a share of the market.

EDIT: Or I guess you meant dealing with Google in terms of releasing games on Android? Android is already a competing platform for Nintendo, so again the presence of an actual console doesn't mean much in that respect either.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 10, 2013)

Nintendo to Google: We have some titles we'd like to release on your platform, however, you may want to design a controller to work well with our games.

Which is the realistic response?

Google to Nintendo: No we don't need you our platform is strong enough to compete with Sony and Microsoft.

Google to Nintendo: What kind of deal would you negotiate with licensing and could you make an exclusive title for this system?


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

No, I was thinking of Google being a financial partner for Nintendo.

Who am I kidding? I have no idea how to possibly save Nintendo. If only the Wii U had a different name, released at a better time, and had more media exposure, it'd be doing much better than it is now.


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## Stratelier (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Nintendo had games on non-Nintendo consoles before, but I don't know how well they did.


Nobody talks about those, and for good reason.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

All we can do now is sit back and wait for Apple to buy Nintendo out, and poof, no more Nintendo consoles, because Apple will want to put their own brand all over the products we grew up with.

Seems EA is part of the problem too. Now even I hate EA.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 10, 2013)

I didn't plan on talking ever again on this forum but TF, I REALLY think you should stop trying to argue. LMAO
I'm sitting at my keyboard right now DYING at some of the recent posts you've pulled out of thin air. 

Where did Apple come from!? Apple buying Nintendo? For what? Nintendo failing? Pardon? 

W-What are you even talking about anymore!?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> All we can do now is sit back and wait for Apple to buy Nintendo out, and poof, no more Nintendo consoles, because Apple will want to put their own brand all over the products we grew up with.


Wh... How... Where did this come from? Apple isn't really a company that's known for acquiring other companies. That's more a Microsoft thing to do. Apple usually only acquires companies that are part of their supply chain, like AuthenTec and their new iPhone 5s fingerprint sensor.

Besides, Apple's made a console before. And I don't think they'd feel like they needed to buy Nintendo, especially considering the amount of cash that would require. Nintendo has over $13,951,000,000 in total assets and makes over $6,332,482,800 in revenue. That'd be an awful expensive acquisition (though to be fair Apple makes more than twice that in profits in a year). Also, I don't think Nintendo's execs would take kindly to answering to an American company.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 10, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Wh... How... Where did this come from? Apple isn't really a company that's known for acquiring other companies. That's more a Microsoft thing to do. Apple usually only acquires companies that are part of their supply chain, like AuthenTec and their new iPhone 5s fingerprint sensor.
> 
> Besides, Apple's made a console before. And I don't think they'd feel like they needed to buy Nintendo, especially considering the amount of cash that would require. Nintendo has over $13,951,000,000 in total assets and makes over $6,332,482,800 in revenue. That'd be an awful expensive acquisition (though to be fair Apple makes more than twice that in profits in a year). Also, I don't think Nintendo's execs would take kindly to answering to an American company.



But I thought they were loosing a lot of that money because of slowed hardware and software sales, thanks to mobile phone and tablet gaming.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> But I thought they were loosing a lot of that money because of slowed hardware and software sales, thanks to mobile phone and tablet gaming.


Falling profits != losing money. Nintendo makes money overall. The WiiU may not be, but Nintendo is. They're just making less of it.

Also, slow hardware and software sales are mainly Nintendo problems. The WiiU has to date sold 3.61 million units over its almost-year of life. The PS4 has over 1 million pre-orders already sold, and Call of Duty breaks sales records on every release.


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## Stratelier (Sep 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Seems EA is part of the problem too. Now even I hate EA.


That URL seriously does not match the article's headline.  Like, at all.

Can't say it's a surprise:  Just about every parent has a phone and keeps it on them at all times, can't say the same for portables or consoles, so when they need to keep a young kid occupied they can start up a game and let the kid play.  Ergo, kid grows up preferring phone/tablet gaming.

I used to be a big PC gaming fan, partly because it was the first system I played games on.  I believe that statistics calls this "path dependence".



Runefox said:


> ...and Call of Duty breaks sales records on every release.


Now ain't that depressing.  Goodbye, FPS, I knew thee well.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 11, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Can't say it's a surprise:  Just about every parent has a phone and keeps it on them at all times, can't say the same for portables or consoles, so when they need to keep a young kid occupied they can start up a game and let the kid play.  Ergo, kid grows up preferring phone/tablet gaming.



Then Nintendo needs to up the convenience factor on their hardware.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Goodbye, FPS, I knew thee well.



Yeah
Goodbye Borderlands 2, Syndicate, Metro Last Light, Tribes Ascend, Bioshock 3, Left 4 Dead, Serious Sam 3, Drunken Robot Pornography, Shadow Warrior, Far Cry 3, Blood Dragon, TitanFall, Destiny, Doom 4, Deus Ex HR, and Blacklight Retribution. 



lol


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## Stratelier (Sep 11, 2013)

But Call of Duty is the death of FPS gaming, didn't ya know?


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 11, 2013)

After reading this I'm starting to feel more hopeful for Nintendo.

Might be why I enjoy Angry Birds Trilogy on the 3DS more than on phones or Mac.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 11, 2013)

Maybe you'd have more value to your posts if you didn't just react to everyone's little news blog and learned to research and form opinions of your own.


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## Runefox (Sep 11, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> After reading this I'm starting to feel more hopeful for Nintendo.


I've been trying to tell you that for a while now. ReviewTechUSA is an idiot, the video he showed about "the future of gaming" being in smartphones was pretty stupid. I'm pretty sure I said that when you posted it, and I've said before that Nintendo's not sunk and console gaming is stronger than ever. It's just that more people have smartphones than ever as well. Besides, people who have smartphones are also likely to buy consoles as well - You don't ONLY buy a console or a smartphone.



> Might be why I enjoy Angry Birds Trilogy on the 3DS more than on phones or Mac.


I wouldn't. Resistive touchscreens. Not fun to use for that. Also Angry Birds has been played out.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2013)

You two have been on the frontlines trying to get Robo to understand *simple* concepts this entire thread. And not just Nintendo's problems, what solutions they ACTUALLY need to focus on, as well as their competition, but...



Arshes Nei said:


> Maybe you'd have more value to your posts if you didn't just react to everyone's little news blog and learned to research and form opinions of your own.



^That.



Runefox said:


> ReviewTechUSA is an idiot



^And that.

I'd just move on. Has there been any REAL news? Does anyone think the new PS Vita model announced will make the Vita more of a viable option now? I know the price cut will.
(I'm pulling straws. I just wanna help you all change the subject. lol)


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## Runefox (Sep 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I'd just move on. Has there been any REAL news? Does anyone think the new PS Vita model announced will make the Vita more of a viable option now? I know the price cut will.
> (I'm pulling straws. I just wanna help you all change the subject. lol)



Well, that's slightly OT, but still in the ballpark for price cuts. I think the price cut is LONG overdue, just like with the WiiU. $249 was way too expensive, and it was way too expensive for the 3DS at first as well. I'm not sure if the new model will make a huge impact, but colour variety might help as it did with the PSP-2000/3000 series, especially if it's much lighter. The LCD screen instead of OLED is a bit of a hit or miss decision; On the one hand, OLED is beautiful, but on the other, UI and game HUD elements can burn in during extended play (and this has been reported). Not a huge deal on smartphones thanks to the fact that the whole screen changes rather often when switching apps, but games tend to keep a HUD on-screen for quite some time. If they use a high quality IPS LCD, I'm perfectly fine with the change; Otherwise, I may have to get an older model if I pick one up.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I'd just move on. Has there been any REAL news? Does anyone think the new PS Vita model announced will make the Vita more of a viable option now? I know the price cut will.
> (I'm pulling straws. I just wanna help you all change the subject. lol)



For handhelds? Or the PS Vita TV? http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/9/4710080/sony-ps-vita-tv

Because the latter is an amazing option - though if they're working on better integration with the PS4 to Vita it is also a great option.

The TV lets you play Vita games, PSP and PSone as well as stream your PS4 games (later). From what  understand there's going to be Gaikai streaming (later or now - I have to find the article) for the VitaTV
That device while for your TV home, it's amazingly small which does make it portable and it's also a "roku" - streaming media player as well as streaming game player. Considering the fact it's about $100 bucks that is an amazing deal.


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## Runefox (Sep 11, 2013)

Yeah, the PS Vita TV is an interesting idea, and the fact that it essentially gives you a "cheap second PS4" along with smart TV abilities is really great. Seems like Sony's trying to horn in more aggressively on AppleTV's turf at that price point, too.

The PS Vita handheld being able to stream PS4 games is also pretty great. Instead of simply being tied to a console, you can play both console games and portable games on the device. Keeping with the topic, it's like if Nintendo let you use the 3DS to interact with the WiiU instead of using the tablet controller. Obviously in Nintendo's case the tablet controller has a higher resolution screen, but the Vita's screen is already an impressive 960x544 (versus the tablet controller's 854x480), so really it's more like a tablet controller you can take with you. As the PS4 launch draws nearer, I'm becoming more and more interested in the Vita line of devices. It seems as though the Vita was really meant to mesh with the PS4. It's too bad it took so long for all this to come to fruition; At least among my circles, the Vita has a reputation for having very few games available.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2013)

Oh shit, that looks really nice. And a cheap device from a big name! Let's hope it does better than Ouya and fucking OnLive.

And just to extend upon my previous post basically, I'm wondering that since the 2DS is creating another alternative for much cheaper, will Sony be able to even stay afloat (in the handheld market) regardless of the price cut this year?


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And just to extend upon my previous post basically, I'm wondering that since the 2DS is creating another alternative for much cheaper, will Sony be able to even stay afloat (in the handheld market) regardless of the price cut this year?



I know it's about the Vita and not Nintendo, but it could either possibly kill the Vita or help it with Gaikai streaming. Basically if people buy the Vita TV they're going to want the games so it can help push the software end, but the physical hardware of the Vita sales, is uncertain if it's going to kill it or help enhance the PS4. 

So I'll be honest, I'm somewhat uncertain. But I think device integration with added media support is definitely a plus. The hefty price tags were not helping any of the handhelds at all since they were costing as much as a console.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2013)

Especially since neither had any really console moving games at their launch...


unless you're a diehard WipEout fan. ;w;

Speaking of device integration, since the 2DS looks a lot like a chibi Wii U gamepad, think Nintendo would ever get the idea to make some sort of 3/2DS to Wii U connectivity? Not exclusively for 2DS of course. Like...the SNES and Gamecube had something similar. Echoes of Time had cross platform online (I cannot stress how much I fucking adore that game). I'm sad 3DS hasn't got something like that. A lot of the games aren't really touchscreen focus and even if they were, I don't think it'd be that difficult to put both on screen. Imagine the "new" Zelda on the tele... Or Mario 3D Land? That'd be nice.


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## Runefox (Sep 11, 2013)

If they enable any kind of connectivity, it would be relatively limited. Game streaming wouldn't be possible, since the tablet controller uses a modified 802.11n (300-450mbps) signal to carry its data. Even if it were enabled separately, the 3DS is only capable of using 802.11g (54mbps, typically half), which is about 6-7x slower at the best of times. The Vita, on the other hand, has 802.11n support and would definitely be capable of sending and receiving screen data quickly enough.

Uncompressed, a single 3DS screen's worth of video alone (400x240 24-bit @60Hz) would clock in at 131.84mbps. Even dropping the colour depth to 16-bit would only bring it down to 87.89mbps. Compression would be tough on the 3DS due to the limited hardware, but lossless compression would reduce that on average by a factor of 3, making for 29.3mbps - Still too much to reliably stream, and we haven't even hit audio yet. Cutting the frame rate in half would make it fit, as would lossy compression, though that would be unacceptable in this kind of role.

The WiiU tablet controller is well within its limits for lossless compression; Its screen resolution (854x480 24-bit @60Hz) works out to be 187.65mbps on average with lossless compression. Audio could be compressed normally or losslessly; Probably normally given the comparatively low quality of the tablet controller's speakers and relative ease of decoding, which helps give it some breathing room.

High bitrate h.264 or other lossy video codecs would require far too much resources; The 3DS would not handle this, and the tablet controller's guts probably couldn't, either. Lossless compression is relatively fast by comparison, with Huffyuv _compression _(the most time intensive step) performing at about 38MB/sec (304mbps) on an old 416MHz Celeron in 2000 when the codec was first released. Most likely, Nintendo is using this or a similar codec for its wireless tablet display.

</geek>

EDIT: Appears a reverse engineering job nailed the codec down to h.264, with an encoder built into the graphics chip. This precludes using the 3DS for wireless display altogether.

... I wonder why they didn't decide on a lossless codec given it would have fit the bandwidth requirement. Maybe memory usage on the decoding side? Though I imagine h.264 is far harder to decode than huffyuv.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2013)

...


I'm never calling tech support again. ;w;


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## Runefox (Sep 11, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> ...
> 
> 
> I'm never calling tech support again. ;w;



Thank you for choosing Runefox. We value your patronage; Please complete our survey to let us know how we did. You'll have a chance to win a whole cookie. Have a great day!


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## Ikrit (Sep 11, 2013)

i don't see what is so bad about this

the 2DS is quite literally a "stiped down, no BS" version of the 3DS, which is all i would ever want.  getting rid of the flip phone design probably increases the durability as well now that the kids can no longer slam the thing shut and then act like the hulk opening it.


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## Runefox (Sep 11, 2013)

Ikrit said:


> the 2DS is quite literally a "stiped down, no BS" version of the 3DS, which is all i would ever want.  getting rid of the flip phone design probably increases the durability as well now that the kids can no longer slam the thing shut and then act like the hulk opening it.



Have fun sticking that in your pocket. :V I for one would not want to try, nor would I want to carry the thing around in its carrying case.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 11, 2013)

Ikrit said:


> i don't see what is so bad about this
> 
> the 2DS is quite literally a "stiped down, no BS" version of the 3DS, which is all i would ever want.  getting rid of the flip phone design probably increases the durability as well now that the kids can no longer slam the thing shut and then act like the hulk opening it.



How does exposed glass increase durability?

Explain this to my co worker who has kids that have broken every phone, ipad and tablet he has left around in their presence.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 11, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> How does exposed glass increase durability?
> 
> Explain this to my co worker who has kids that have broken every phone, ipad and tablet he has left around in their presence.



Well, you see Arshes. Scientifically speaking, in place of the 3D effect Nintendo developed the microscopic Nintenites that detect and repair any damage sustained to the 2DS unit. This was achieved using the exorbitant amount of money New Super Mario Bros Wii, 2, U, Me, Her, Him, and the 40 billion Zelda rereleases raked in a whopping five seconds after each launch.

Trust me, I'm a Pachi.


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## Runefox (Sep 13, 2013)

Sigh... And yet more brand confusion thrown into the mix, this time care of Best Buy Canada:







This one's Best Buy's fault. I've noticed the US site hasn't yet updated with mention of the 2DS, nor have The Source, Target, EB Games or Gamestop. Still a pretty shitty mistake to make all things considered.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 14, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Sigh... And yet more brand confusion thrown into the mix, this time care of Best Buy Canada:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not the worst thing they've done at the BestBuy in my area. They have a Wii U on display, but the controller is locked in a plexiglass case, just because "people steal it.". There are better ways to prevent people from stealing the gamepad, idiots.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 14, 2013)

I don't see why they're idiots. You work in a store long enough you have to lock away all that stuff. 

http://www.businessweek.com/article...-sell-off-deepens-doubts-about-youth-gameplan


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 14, 2013)

Here's an update I found just now.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 14, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Here's an update I found just now.



http://www.gamespot.com/news/pikmin-3-us-sales-reach-115000-units-6414410 this is the sales charts. The thing is I wonder if it will hold up after the launch of the new consoles. 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/npd-3ds-outsells-xbox-360-ps3-in-august-6414408

The thing is I'm wondering if the sales were there because nothing else was out at the time since the big launches are in Nov.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 14, 2013)

Well the 3DS is going so strong because of it's stellar lineup of software.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 14, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well the 3DS is going so strong because of it's stellar lineup of software.



I wouldn't say it's stellar, it's just better compared to alternatives - which is pretty much none right now. PS Vita has a lack of titles but that could change when the TV comes out later. Because people with PS+ accounts will now have an apparatus that will play those games. If they find them enjoyable, I can see them purchasing future titles without having to fork out an extra 100 - unless they want portability.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 15, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I wouldn't say it's stellar, it's just better compared to alternatives - which is pretty much none right now. PS Vita has a lack of titles but that could change when the TV comes out later. Because people with PS+ accounts will now have an apparatus that will play those games. If they find them enjoyable, I can see them purchasing future titles without having to fork out an extra 100 - unless they want portability.



This holiday season is going to be massive for 3DS though. We're getting Zelda, Pokemon, and Sonic in the same month. All three system selling IP's...usually. \:3/

Want me to mail you a 3DS!?


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## Runefox (Sep 15, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> This holiday season is going to be massive for 3DS though. We're getting Zelda, Pokemon, and Sonic in the same month. All three system selling IP's...usually. \:3/
> 
> Want me to mail you a 3DS!?


Yeah, it should be quite a good run for the 3DS. The Vita should hopefully pick up during the holiday season as well thanks to the PS4 launch and Vita TV. Really, it's shaping up to be a great holiday season for anyone who isn't a WiiU owner. :| Super Mario 3D World and DKC Tropical Freeze. I guess if they turn out to be really good that might be OK, but these titles are super late and the number and quality of releases leading up to them is very light. Personally, I have a lot of trouble accurately controlling Mario in 3D Land because I can't really see depth well enough at those camera angles; Without the aid of a 3D screen and with 4 player simultaneous play... Yeah. Dunno. I'm not going to judge the game til it's out, and people loved 3D Land (I wanted to thanks to all the SMB3 references but I just couldn't get into it), but even if the game is a success, Nintendo needs more high quality games more often, as well as a change in advertising strategy (that is, to actually implement one) to pull the WiiU out of its pit.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 15, 2013)

Personally, I think it's just a goofy fucking joke of a game in general, 3D World. lol

I'm not getting why the 3DS is getting good shit. I don't think the price drop is gonna help the Wii U _as_ much. Because again...where the Hell are they talking about this? You still can't buy a "cheaper" product you know nothing about.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 15, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Want me to mail you a 3DS!?



Only if you mean it. XD


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## DrDingo (Sep 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Nintendo needs more high quality games more often, as well as a change in advertising strategy (that is, to actually implement one) to pull the WiiU out of its pit.


By any chance, are you getting that YouTube advert in the US/Canada where a guy stands there explaining why the Wii U is a good games console? He talks about how 'Man cannot live on bread alone, so with the Wii U we also have retro and indie games to make a delicious gaming sandwich.'


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 16, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> By any chance, are you getting that YouTube advert in the US/Canada where a guy stands there explaining why the Wii U is a good games console? He talks about how 'Man cannot live on bread alone, so with the Wii U we also have retro and indie games to make a delicious gaming sandwich.'



Speaking of which...


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## Runefox (Sep 16, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Speaking of which...


If they're going to focus on digital, they're going to need to slash the pricing of digital copies of retail games across the board. In fact, every 3DS download title is the same price as their boxed counterparts; Shin Megami Tensei IV is currently $49 CAD on eShop, the same price as the boxed copy which includes an art book and OST disc. This has actually prevented me from purchasing the game, and I've been considering the retail copy instead as a result, though the sticker shock is still a huge factor even then.

Downloadable titles require no manufacturing/printing, no merchandising, no shipping or dealing with retailers and unexpectedly high/low demand, and no used sales, all things which factor into the retail price of a boxed game. These titles really need to be $10-20 less expensive to be worth downloading, and games that come with extras at retail need to be cut down to standard pricing when sold digitally.



DrDingo said:


> By any chance, are you getting that YouTube advert in the US/Canada where a guy stands there explaining why the Wii U is a good games console? He talks about how 'Man cannot live on bread alone, so with the Wii U we also have retro and indie games to make a delicious gaming sandwich.'


Nope. The rare ads I get on YouTube tend to be for beer or cars. Which is annoying as fuck because I don't care about either of those things.


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## Stratelier (Sep 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> If they're going to focus on digital, they're going to need to slash the pricing of digital copies of retail games across the board. In fact, every 3DS download title is the same price as their boxed counterparts; Shin Megami Tensei IV is currently $49 CAD on eShop, the same price as the boxed copy which includes an art book and OST disc. This has actually prevented me from purchasing the game, and I've been considering the retail copy instead as a result, though the sticker shock is still a huge factor even then.
> 
> Downloadable titles require no manufacturing/printing, no merchandising, no shipping or dealing with retailers and unexpectedly high/low demand, and no used sales, all things which factor into the retail price of a boxed game. These titles really need to be $10-20 less expensive to be worth downloading, and games that come with extras at retail need to be cut down to standard pricing when sold digitally.



Pretty sure Nintendo is *not* alone in this department and Sony/MS do that too.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 16, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Pretty sure Nintendo is *not* alone in this department and Sony/MS do that too.



But Nintendo still does it... o-O


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 16, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Pretty sure Nintendo is *not* alone in this department and Sony/MS do that too.



Sony has been known to offer discounts though, even more so through PS+


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## Runefox (Sep 16, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Pretty sure Nintendo is *not* alone in this department and Sony/MS do that too.



What Pachi said. I'm talking about Nintendo in particular here because they're the subject of that discussion. I'm not saying that everyone else does it better, just that Nintendo needs to change (and so do the competition). As Arshes said though, PS+ typically gives a nice discount along with free games, so Sony's at least trying to do something differently; Microsoft has indicated it wants to do similar things with Live once the XBOne hits. But as bad as full retail pricing for digital copies are, I'm not sure I've *ever* seen an example so bad as the SMT IV one.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 16, 2013)

Nintendo offers NOTHING for free and gives NO discounts. Unless you want to count overpriced 20 year old ports or mediocre DSiWare titles on Nintendo Club (AFTER you buy about 4-6 games to get the points necessary to afford a single item). I've seen nothing for as long as they've had digital distribution. Nothing on Wii Shop Channel. Nothing on DSiWare. Nothing on eShop. And Nintendo Club is a joke (but this Nintendo pouch owns =w= ).
If I have seen it, it was either unimpressive or YEARS ago.

Sony, PC, and I cannot believe I'm about say this, but even Microsoft have exclusive deals in place frequently. So Nintendo has no justification and gives no incentive to purchase anything digitally across any platform they've put in place. There is no excuse for that. Not for a company as rich as them especially.


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## Neybulot (Sep 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So Nintendo has no justification and gives no incentive to purchase anything digitally across any platform they've put in place. There is no excuse for that. Not for a company as rich as them especially.



Actually, they are with the Wind Waker HD as the digital release comes out September 20th, while those buying in-stores have to wait until September 26th for Japan and October 4th-5th everywhere else.

Not that it's really an incentive to purchase a Wii U itself though because it's a simple revamped re-release, but at least they're trying something to get people to purchase digitally.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

Wow... -_-

What a scumfuck ripoff scam. How about you bundle a NEW game? And a REAL one that isn't a tech demo. I never see that with their consoles. Though I may be wrong and correct me if so.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 17, 2013)

But in a sense F-Zero was a tech demo for the Super NES, Super Mario 64 was a tech demo for it's console, as was Pikmin, but they're all beloved classics among reviewers and players alike.

Still, I want the old Nintendo back. The one that had better console launch line-ups. Sorry Mr. Iwata, you're just not making the cut.


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## Nikolinni (Sep 17, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> But in a sense F-Zero was a tech demo for the Super NES, Super Mario 64 was a tech demo for it's console, as was Pikmin, but they're all beloved classics among reviewers and players alike.
> 
> Still, I want the old Nintendo back. The one that had better console launch line-ups. Sorry Mr. Iwata, you're just not making the cut.



F-Zero wasn't packaged with the SNES though...


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 17, 2013)

Nikolinni said:


> F-Zero wasn't packaged with the SNES though...



Super Mario 64 was packaged with the N64 though, right?


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## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

Don't think so. Mario 1 was, but I don't think 64 was.



TransformerRobot said:


> But in a sense F-Zero was a tech demo for the Super NES, Super Mario 64 was a tech demo for it's console, as was Pikmin, but they're all beloved classics among reviewers and players alike.
> 
> Still, I want the old Nintendo back. The one that had better console launch line-ups. Sorry Mr. Iwata, you're just not making the cut.



...There's a difference between a launch title and a short demo meant _specifically_ to show the current limits of a console. Yes, they show off what the console does, but they're still made to be _games_. To last as _games_. Besides, I recognize NLand as a game, I just think it's such a poor excuse of one to use as a console selling point that I personally put it on the same level as the E3 Zelda tech demo.


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## Imperial Impact (Sep 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Don't think so. Mario 1 was, but I don't think 64 was.


Nope.

Mario 1 + Duck Hunt was part of the "action set".


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2013)

I kinda feel Nintendo somewhat fucked themselves with the story of Skyward Sword. They basically said "it's gonna be redundant themes forever".


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## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

I figured Mario 64 was stand alone. I don't know of any games bundled with N64.



Arshes Nei said:


> I kinda feel Nintendo somewhat fucked themselves with the story of Skyward Sword. They basically said "it's gonna be redundant themes forever".



...

That. *Fucking*. Game.


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## Runefox (Sep 17, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> But in a sense F-Zero was a tech demo for the Super NES, Super Mario 64 was a tech demo for it's console, as was Pikmin, but they're all beloved classics among reviewers and players alike.


F-Zero and Mario 64 weren't tech demos; They were exploratory games that were meant to stand alone. The fact that SM64 was originally planned as a SuperFX game more or less says exactly that. I'm... Not entirely sure that Pikmin was anything like that. Just because it was an early-release Nintendo title doesn't mean it was meant as a tech demo or exploratory game; From what I can gather, it seems like the game's concept was the big focus during development, not whether or not it would push the system.

A tech demo would be something like Wii Sports - Something designed specifically to showcase the system without being intended to stand on its own. It was the Minesweeper and Solitaire of the Wii; It showcased its abilities while making for an introduction of players to the new control method.


----------



## Ketsuo (Sep 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I kinda feel Nintendo somewhat fucked themselves with the story of Skyward Sword. They basically said "it's gonna be redundant themes forever".



While I didn't like SS as an origin story I don't think thats necessarily true.  I don't see why they still couldn't make Zelda games like Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask where it doesn't take place in Hyrule, Zelda isn't really involved, and the villains are different.  They probably will stick with the same kind of themes for the most part though.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> That. *Fucking*. Game.


No, it's Custer's Revenge that was a fucking game.  ( . . . I can't believe I just made that kind of joke.  I think I need a hiatus.)  SS was very enjoyable on a gameplay level, in terms of your acquired items and level design.  And the more action-oriented bosses rocked.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> No, it's Custer's Revenge that was a fucking game.  ( . . . I can't believe I just made that kind of joke.  I think I need a hiatus.)  SS was very enjoyable on a gameplay level, in terms of your acquired items and level design.  And the more action-oriented bosses rocked.



I retain my previous sentiment. Not to belittle YOUR personal enjoyment however.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2013)

It's just that we know all the Zelda games up to date have the same kind of theme with the characters. I would have loved to see them shake it up and instead they make a game that says "nope always gonna be this way" which is fucked.


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## SirRob (Sep 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's just that we know all the Zelda games up to date have the same kind of theme with the characters. I would have loved to see them shake it up and instead they make a game that says "nope always gonna be this way" which is fucked.


New controls, original environments, orchestrated soundtrack, a different approach to the overworld, an original art style... even the tone of the game is completely original from other Zelda games. What sort of changes are you looking for?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2013)

SirRob said:


> New controls, original environments, orchestrated soundtrack, a different approach to the overworld, an original art style... even the tone of the game is completely original from other Zelda games. What sort of changes are you looking for?



Character theme changes. Let Zelda be the hero for example, I mean the fucking games use her name. I don't mean just a side character like Sheik. Let her go rescue Link for a majority of the journey, let her use the Triforce of Wisdom.


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## Runefox (Sep 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's just that we know all the Zelda games up to date have the same kind of theme with the characters. I would have loved to see them shake it up and instead they make a game that says "nope always gonna be this way" which is fucked.



Actually, they _did _make two Zelda games which didn't star either Zelda or Link; Unfortunately, they weren't released here, nor are they ever releasable again by their very nature.

Remember when Nintendo was on the cutting edge of technology and player immersion? Pepperidge Farm remembers.


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## SirRob (Sep 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Character theme changes. Let Zelda be the hero for example, I mean the fucking games use her name. I don't mean just a side character like Sheik. Let her go rescue Link for a majority of the journey, let her use the Triforce of Wisdom.


You can't do that! Link's the main character; he needs to be for like, branding purposes. If they made a game with Zelda as the main character, it'd have to be a spinoff.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2013)

SirRob said:


> You can't do that! Link's the main character; he needs to be for like, branding purposes. If they made a game with Zelda as the main character, it'd have to be a spinoff.



For quite a while people thought Zelda was actually the name of Link. So I don't see a problem if Zelda is the main character for most of the game.


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## SirRob (Sep 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> For quite a while people thought Zelda was actually the name of Link. So I don't see a problem if Zelda is the main character for most of the game.


Even with the name mix up, people recognize the main character.
By doing this, you'd be messing with people's expectations; it'd be a huge gamble and probably wouldn't be worth it.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Even with the name mix up, people recognize the main character.
> By doing this, you'd be messing with people's expectations; it'd be a huge gamble and probably wouldn't be worth it.



Link used to be a Brunette, Zelda is pretty much in every game. Time to change some shit around as far as I'm concerned.


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## Runefox (Sep 17, 2013)

SirRob said:


> You can't do that! Link's the main character; he needs to be for like, branding purposes. If they made a game with Zelda as the main character, it'd have to be a spinoff.


I guess "Soap" is the only main character allowed in Call of Duty, Mario the only main character allowed in a Mario game, Claude the only main character allowed in a 3D GTA game, the original Mega Man the only main character allowed in a Mega Man game, Simon Belmont the only main character allowed in a Castlevania game...

I could go on. :| Or do you just not want to play as a girl?


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## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

Freshly Picked: Tingle's Rosie Rupee Land was a great (slow) game.



Arshes Nei said:


> For quite a while people thought Zelda was actually the name of Link. So I don't see a problem if Zelda is the main character for most of the game.



It's not a game, but it's something you can appreciate. Look up Legend of Zelda Clockwork Empire.

EDIT: Also Rob. This sold 1 million copies.


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## SirRob (Sep 17, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I guess "Soap" is the only main character allowed in Call of Duty, Mario the only main character allowed in a Mario game, Claude the only main character allowed in a 3D GTA game, the original Mega Man the only main character allowed in a Mega Man game, Simon Belmont the only main character allowed in a Castlevania game...
> 
> I could go on. :| Or do you just not want to play as a girl?


Only Mario and Mega Man share the icon status, and we all know how Capcom's treatment of Mega Man went. Luigi's Mansion and Super Princess Peach are both spinoff titles-- Mario's always the star of the big budget games. Tingle's whatever is a spin off too. Zelda being playable in a spin off is fine, but not in a big budget title-- especially one that's driven so much by its main character.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

I see his point. But, you forget two crucial details. This is Nintendo and Zelda we're talking about. Its not like the game WOULDN'T sell on name recognition alone. And it'd be a great change of pace. 
Zelda has extensive magic abilities we NEVER see. Wouldn't Zelda fans like a truly different part of the Zelda universe? Wouldn't they want to see what this "innovative" company can do with a princess that is always fabled to have immense magical powers? She's an extremely resourceful woman (up until SS) with some untapped potential.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I see his point. But, you forget two crucial details. This is Nintendo and Zelda we're talking about. Its not like the game WOULDN'T sell on name recognition alone. And it'd be a great change of pace.
> Zelda has extensive magic abilities we NEVER see. Wouldn't Zelda fans like a truly different part of the Zelda universe? Wouldn't they want to see what this "innovative" company can do with a princess that is always fabled to have immense magical powers? She's an extremely resourceful woman (up until SS) with some untapped potential.



No we just should go through different puzzles maybe mention or involve the Triforce and then call it an innovative game again :/


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## Judge Spear (Sep 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> No we just should go through different puzzles maybe mention or involve the Triforce and then call it an innovative game again :/



You know, I was just talking with someone. Wouldn't a Zelda RTS where you play as Zelda commanding her troops be kinda cool for a 3DS game? Going through dungeons and finding stuff just like in main Zelda (with a bit of bonus exploration to level better), but Zelda at the front lines. Against a new threat. I could imagine something like that being an ok game if not fantastic.


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## SirRob (Sep 18, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I see his point. But, you forget two crucial details. This is Nintendo and Zelda we're talking about. Its not like the game WOULDN'T sell on name recognition alone. And it'd be a great change of pace.
> Zelda has extensive magic abilities we NEVER see. Wouldn't Zelda fans like a truly different part of the Zelda universe? Wouldn't they want to see what this "innovative" company can do with a princess that is always fabled to have immense magical powers? She's an extremely resourceful woman (up until SS) with some untapped potential.


Right. It probably would sell. But I'm sure it wouldn't sell as much as or more than a traditional Zelda title. 
Honestly, Nintendo's never made a perfect Zelda game. I'd rather see them get closer to that than to take it to an entirely new direction, which a different playable character would undoubtedly do.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

Kinda doubt it since Zelda is pretty much a big part of the universe.


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## Imperial Impact (Sep 18, 2013)

This whole fricking page.

Good god you guys.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Right. It probably would sell. But I'm sure it wouldn't sell as much as or more than a traditional Zelda title.
> Honestly, Nintendo's never made a perfect Zelda game. I'd rather see them get closer to that than to take it to an entirely new direction, which a different playable character would undoubtedly do.



Does a game really have to sell as much or more than previous games to make a profit? That's EA's mindset with Deadspace 3. Homogenize games to sell copies, NOT enjoyable fresh games. Don't take risks. It's only about money. Money from a formula that doesn't budge. Granted not everything needs innovation all of the time as I've said about Pokemon, but don't ever close off the idea of doing something different because it will "only" sell 9.8 million as opposed to 10 million.

And Nintendo will NEVER make a perfect Zelda game. There can't be perfect in this world. It's just an excuse to keep rehashing old concepts that work. There may not be perfection, but they still got it right. Back in 1985. 

Besides, what I described would be a spinoff anyway. Not its own series.


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## Stratelier (Sep 18, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And Nintendo will NEVER make a perfect Zelda game. There can't be perfect in this world. It's just an excuse to keep rehashing old concepts that work. There may not be perfection, but they still got it right. Back in 1985.


Especially since any 3D Zelda game will be eternally compared to/against Ocarina of Time which fans consider to be THE perfect Zelda game.  (I mildly disagree.)


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

Twenty-five days left until the 2DS hits North American shelves. Judgement Day is upon yon poor man's 3DS.


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## SirRob (Sep 18, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Does a game really have to sell as much or more than previous games to make a profit? That's EA's mindset with Deadspace 3. Homogenize games to sell copies, NOT enjoyable fresh games. Don't take risks. It's only about money. Money from a formula that doesn't budge. Granted not everything needs innovation all of the time as I've said about Pokemon, but don't ever close off the idea of doing something different because it will "only" sell 9.8 million as opposed to 10 million.
> 
> And Nintendo will NEVER make a perfect Zelda game. There can't be perfect in this world. It's just an excuse to keep rehashing old concepts that work. There may not be perfection, but they still got it right. Back in 1985.
> 
> Besides, what I described would be a spinoff anyway. Not its own series.


Well, I'm not arguing about what you described. In the second post I made about the topic, I mentioned that it'd be fine as a spinoff. The problem is though, since it'd be considered a spinoff, it wouldn't fix the problems Arshes Nei has with the main series games. It's like people who complain that Pokemon never does anything different, despite having many spinoff titles. 

You're right, no game can be perfect-- but I think every game should strive to be perfect. Ocarina of Time is a great game, but obviously it had room for improvement-- Ocarina of Time 3D made that clear. I'd like to see a game where it's not so obvious, where the experience is as close to 100% as you can get throughout the entire game.

Isn't Nintendo failing right now with the Wii U? Isn't profit sort of important? Homogenizing the games isn't good, I agree-- Like New Super Mario Bros. The fact that those games are so similar to each other does take away from the experience of each individual game. But I think the amount of changes Nintendo makes throughout the Zelda games is totally fine. Sure, they're not messing with the basic formula, but every game builds upon it while changing up many other aspects of the game-- like environments, characters, enemies, items, plot, etc.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

WiiU is failing because it hasn't made a clear version of what it wants to be. That is coupled with the fact that the game library for this is less than stellar. As far as people know it's a Wii U with an expensive tablet option. What is it for? An expensive extra?

The Wii branded itself successfully as the "Everyman" game system. 

A spinoff Zelda Title will probably sell, mainly because it's still involving the main characters but a switch in roles. It's not like what I'm suggesting is "SUDDENLY NEW CHARACTERS" but rather who you would play as the main character. Considering how people are trying to figure out the Zelda Universe in all its incarnations I don't see how that would take away from what people usually consider interesting stories in the Zelda universe but rather enhance them. What is Zelda's role other than being rescued? I'd like to see more of Zelda stop being the object of Capture the flag, they give bits and pieces but this idea needs to be more fleshed out. Especially since they've shown her capable. Each character having an importance for their respective piece of the Triforce can just as much help than really hurt.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

Zelda in her major 3D roles was sooooo useful to Link. Even fighting her oppressor alongside Link in two of them. He really wouldn't beat Ganon without her. Time to expand on that. But no. They made her a weak, screeching, sniveling, desu kawaii waifu whelp in Skyward Sword. NO use whatsoever. She ran away the whole game and cried in fear when she could run no more. She did NOTHING of use for herself or Link and most definitely the image of female protagonists. Sound like something familiar? 



Stratadrake said:


> Especially since any 3D Zelda game will be eternally compared to/against Ocarina of Time which fans consider to be THE perfect Zelda game.  (I mildly disagree.)



I do hold it as a standard and as good as 3D Zelda _has_ been, but games can be better. I definitely agree that it's lacking in some features. And features I may not even be thinking about. Absolutely.
 I actually reassessed Majora's Mask recently. I still love it, but I realized I put it too high on a pedestal. I deem it third favorite now. I think Ocarina of Time for a first time 3D Zelda, was the apex...AS. IT. STANDS. This is in no way saying it cannot be surpassed (though it's extremely subjective, of course).



SirRob said:


> Well, I'm not arguing about what you described. In the second post I made about the topic, I mentioned that it'd be fine as a spinoff. The problem is though, since it'd be considered a spinoff, it wouldn't fix the problems Arshes Nei has with the main series games. It's like people who complain that Pokemon never does anything different, despite having many spinoff titles.
> 
> You're right, no game can be perfect-- but I think every game should strive to be perfect. Ocarina of Time is a great game, but obviously it had room for improvement-- Ocarina of Time 3D made that clear. I'd like to see a game where it's not so obvious, where the experience is as close to 100% as you can get throughout the entire game.
> 
> Isn't Nintendo failing right now with the Wii U? Isn't profit sort of important? Homogenizing the games isn't good, I agree-- Like New Super Mario Bros. The fact that those games are so similar to each other does take away from the experience of each individual game. But I think the amount of changes Nintendo makes throughout the Zelda games is totally fine. Sure, they're not messing with the basic formula, but every game builds upon it while changing up many other aspects of the game-- like environments, characters, enemies, items, plot, etc.



Yes, Nintendo needs a profit on Wii U. Which is why I specifically said a spin off game for 3DS. Not a risk taking game for Wii U before something that actually is guaranteed to "put asses in seats". XD
But I largely agree with most of this post anyway. 
However, I don't think remaking an old classic is a healthy way of improving any formula. And we alllllll know Nintendo did not release OoT3D to improve on it. It's hailed as the greatest game of all time by many and they needed a game *guaranteed* to sell. lol

Now as much as I can't stand it, Skyward Sword? Sure, definitely. I won't deny that it adds SOMETHING to Zelda and did SOME things different...unlike recent and upcoming Mario games.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> WiiU is failing because it hasn't made a clear version of what it wants to be. That is coupled with the fact that the game library for this is less than stellar. As far as people know it's a Wii U with an expensive tablet option. What is it for? An expensive extra?
> 
> The Wii branded itself successfully as the "Everyman" game system.



Should've picked a better name then, one that would be easier to market for. Say...







(Sorry for it looking choppy).


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

Or completely move away from "Wii" altogether...


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## SirRob (Sep 18, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Zelda in her major 3D roles was sooooo useful to Link. Even fighting her oppressor alongside Link in two of them. He really wouldn't beat Ganon without her. Time to expand on that. But no. They made her a weak, screeching, sniveling, desu kawaii waifu whelp in Skyward Sword. NO use whatsoever. She ran away the whole game and cried in fear when she could run no more. She did NOTHING of use for herself or Link and most definitely the image of female protagonists. Sound like something familiar?





Spoiler: Skyward Sword



She might not have participated in any battles like Wind Waker's Zelda, but considering she's Hylia, she's actually done a heck of a lot more than any of the other Zeldas. Plus, she explicitly says she was manipulating Link throughout the whole game to make him think she was in danger, so that he would grow as a hero.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

The "Spoiler" about Zelda just makes her a bitch in that game :/


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## SirRob (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The "Spoiler" about Zelda just makes her a bitch in that game :/


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Or completely move away from "Wii" altogether...



Then how would they do that without removing backwards compatibility with Wii games? You know how angry people are at Sony and Microsoft for getting rid of backwards compatibility?


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

What?

He said the name, not the compatibility.

I'm think I'm starting to understand why families during thanksgiving have the kids table now...


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

For starters, that point doesn't hold a drop of water. Was the Wii not compatible with Gamecube games and the necessities to play them? I don't see the name WiiCube anywhere on my unit, but it still plays the games without any problems (fucking 360 and it's bullshit selective compatibility making me unable to play Ninja Gaiden Black) Though, they have done this lazy naming countless times before, yes. Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Gameboy Advance, and 3DS. All lazy names. 

HOWEVER.
It's not just the fact that Nintendo came up with a shit name _again _after roping in a massive casual market that doesn't keep up on this, not even changing the base logotype/color, showing off the _controller_ rather than the console itself (making people think it's a peripheral), and making the main unit nearly identical in every facet outside of curvy corners. BUT for the millionth time, they didn't advertise worth a fuck. x-x

So really, a name and backwards compatibility have NOTHING to do with each other. The name is dumb for it's own reasons. There is no relevant correlation between the two.

EDIT:


Arshes Nei said:


> What?
> 
> He said the name, not the compatibility.
> 
> I'm think I'm starting to understand why families during thanksgiving have the kids table now...



Ouch.

EDIT 2: AND before you bring up Sony's naming, no. Playstation 2, 3, and 4 are not stupid. Adding a simple numeric sequence has been the norm for everything that is a line. It may still have Playstation in the name, but putting "2" at the end shows it's the full sequel. It's clear as day and you know it's the next installment of a series. It's can't be confused like the Wii U's "U". I only bring this up, because I've seen this said countless times, sad to say. .-.

FINAL EDIT: God dammit I completely forgot what I came here for. 
Oh yeah, IS THIS WHAT THEY EXPECT TO SELL WII U'S?!?!?!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/18/wii-sports-club-announced-for-wii-u


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## SirRob (Sep 18, 2013)

I think Xbox One trumps the Wii U in the stupid name department.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> What?
> 
> He said the name, not the compatibility.
> 
> I'm think I'm starting to understand why families during thanksgiving have the kids table now...



Ah. Right. My bad.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

SirRob said:


> I think Xbox One trumps the Wii U in the stupid name department.



I think they're both special kinds of stupid.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

Is Nintendo not advertising as much lately because they can't get enough air time?

Also, I don't see Nintendo's competitors doing much TV advertising either.


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## PastryOfApathy (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think they're both special kinds of stupid.



At least the Xbox One makes sense in a stupid corporate buzzword kind of way. The Wii U is just I have no idea.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

To be fair, a few Wii U games need Wii Remotes for their multiplayer.

*checks Nintendo's total assets, which reads $10,419,000,000 Canadian/US* At least they're not in the red from what I see. How much would they have to lose to be in the red?


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## Runefox (Sep 18, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> At least the Xbox One makes sense in a stupid corporate buzzword kind of way. The Wii U is just I have no idea.



"Wii" was originally pushed as an "everyone play together" concept, which was rather hilariously demonstrated by Nintendo's slightly racist "Wii would like to play" commercials. 10-4 Big N, message received, this is a party console.

"WiiU" was literally carted onto the stage by saying "'we' want to put 'you' back into the game - WiiU. Get it? We, you, WiiU? GET IT!? HAHAHA WE ARE WITTY AS BALLS". Did... Did you name your console just for that pun? :|

XBox One... Yeah. Also not the best idea. Supposedly, Microsoft wanted it to be shortened to "the One" like the XBox 360 was shortened to "the 360". Instead, lolXBone. Made sense in the board room, I'm sure.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

XBone you.
Wii Fist U.

Two plastic scams.

Then there's the Playstation 4 you.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 18, 2013)

What do you mean by PlayStation 4 you? It doesn't look like a scam...yet.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)




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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> What do you mean by PlayStation 4 you? It doesn't look like a scam...yet.



...

The joke went 100% _smooth_ over your head.


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## Jabberwocky (Sep 18, 2013)

this thread has turned into an eyesore.
boo.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

Batsy said:


> this thread has turned into an eyesore.
> boo.



Blame shitty business practices.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

Batsy said:


> this thread has turned into an eyesore.
> boo.



That's what I think of the design of the 2DS

Is there a game doing a good inventory screen for the Wii U? Just trying to figure out justifying the tablet


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## Judge Spear (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> That's what I think of the design of the 2DS
> 
> Is there a game doing a good inventory screen for the Wii U? Just trying to figure out justifying the tablet



I want to say ZombiU because it was praised for that I think, but the game as a whole was utter shit that even Ubisoft had to make a statement on it's sales.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 19, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Blame shitty business practices.



Blame Iwata for them.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 19, 2013)

Not quite, but getting there. Slowly.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Not quite, but getting there. Slowly.



I see what you did there.


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## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Blame shitty business practices.





Arshes Nei said:


> That's what I think of the design of the 2DS


No, I blame on you guys and your silly needs for Zelda.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 20, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> No, I blame on you guys and your silly needs for Zelda.



Nothing wrong with wanting to see more to the Zelda universe.

Better than most of your annoying shitposts with nothing to really contribute.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Wait...wasn't Nintendo also a bidder on Atlus? I can't seem to find anything on it.



Imperial Impact said:


> No, I blame on you guys and your silly needs for Zelda.



I needs Zelda in ma life mang. Das ma bby GURL. She know what it do!


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## Aquin (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm gonna ask for a Wii U for xmas, as for the 2Ds. $130 seems a bit.. much, for that cruddy of a design. Maybe if Nintendos lucky people will buy it for $90. I don't think it will sell.


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## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Nothing wrong with wanting to see more to the Zelda universe.


You wanted Zelda as the hero instead of Link.

Which defeats the point of Link since "he's" the *link* between player and the game world.  


Arshes Nei said:


> Better than most of your annoying shitposts with nothing to really contribute.


But your whining **is** shitposting.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 20, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> You wanted Zelda as the hero instead of Link.
> 
> Which defeats the point of Link since "he's" the *link* between player and the game world.
> 
> But your whining **is** shitposting.



Wow. You think I didn't know where they originally got the name Link. How Cute.

The difference is it doesn't matter. There's been a long time in production of the games that it can stand to change it up. We're talking 20 years now.

There is no whining as shitposting since there's more than one person that thinks it's not a bad idea. 

You, you just post stupid image posts with little to no content. You have nothing else to say than one sentence monkikers.
You don't really have discussions, why don't you try that sometime then coming back in this thread. If that's too difficult then stop complaining about us having a discussion. Because what you have been doing is generally shitposting and you're on a thin line continuing it.


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## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

Since we're splitting hairs, in that case, we need a female Link and a male Zelda.

Or hey, maybe Link can be born the prince of Hyrule and Zelda can be born the Hero of Blank.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

I never knew people could be so defensive about a female lead in Zelda. So much as to belittle the idea and call it shit posting to try and bury it like a corpse. Maybe the discussion doesn't belong in THIS thread and I kinda agree myself. But why so much vitriol and shock towards the idea of flipping roles? Is it really that scary a concept? Does that threaten the IP so much?

I'm not seeing the problem.


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## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I never knew people could be so defensive about a female lead in Zelda. So much as to belittle the idea and call it shit posting to try and bury it like a corpse. Maybe the discussion doesn't belong in THIS thread and I kinda agree myself. But why so much vitriol and shock towards the idea of flipping roles? Is it really that scary a concept? Does that threaten the IP so much?
> 
> I'm not seeing the problem.


Not a female lead, but a lead other than Link. It's not a scary concept, it's just not what's best for the series.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

And remakes are?


----------



## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And remakes are?


Am I defending remakes now?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't see the problem because one thing they do a lot of is 2nd quest. Imagine beating the game with Zelda and a second quest is Link. What could be more risky is a trilogy where each holder of the reinforce have their own respective game or storyline.

The reason for the Zelda tangent is due to what would sell the WiiU and DS


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

DMC 4 didn't do too bad. You played as a completely new guy (almost) for half the damn game. Sure jokes about his whinyness were made, but people learned to like how he _played_ regardless.



SirRob said:


> Am I defending remakes now?



I dunno. I never said you were. Are you?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't recognize any Final Fantasy game where you cannot play as the four Warriors of Light.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I don't recognize any Final Fantasy game where you cannot play as the four Warriors of Light.



What about Fran? :<


----------



## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> DMC 4 didn't do too bad. You played as a completely new guy (almost) for half the damn game. Sure jokes about his whinyness were made, but people learned to like how he _played_ regardless.


I don't claim to know DMC 4, but isn't he about as different from Dante as Link is from... other Links?





XoPachi said:


> I dunno. I never said you were. Are you?


Well you brought it up, so I sort of assumed you wanted to add it to the conversation. But okay, I'll just ignore it.





Arshes Nei said:


> I don't see the problem because one thing they do a lot of is 2nd quest. Imagine beating the game with Zelda and a second quest is Link. What could be more risky is a trilogy where each holder of the reinforce have their own respective game or storyline.
> 
> The reason for the Zelda tangent is due to what would sell the WiiU and DS


Playing as Ganondorf would be bad for the kiddies, so that goes out the window. 
Having Link be a second quest would either require him to conform to Zelda's playstyle, or for the second quest to be an entirely new game. Either one wouldn't work out. 
The idea of Zelda and Link being interchangeable from the beginning of the game could work, with puzzles that only one or the other could solve. It'd give them equal roles, without Zelda taking away the spotlight. Majora's Mask did that, and it's my favorite Zelda! I think if they incorporated Zelda in that way, it could work. Spirit Tracks already had Zelda as a sort of sidekick (albeit only for specific parts of the game) and I actually thought it worked there, too. Of course, it'd have to be designed in a way to convince people that it's better than controlling just one character. You'd also have to convince people that the developers aren't treading on an old gimmick, like Skyward Sword's overworld vs. Wind Waker's.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> maybe Link can be born the prince of Hyrule and Zelda can be born the Hero of Blank.


But the problem with that is princes can sometimes be heroes as well.

The only difference now are.
-Link has now access really good equipment by default instead of his shitty usual wooden sword/shield
-Zelda is now useless.   


Arshes Nei said:


> Wow. You think I didn't know where they originally got the name Link. How Cute.


unintended snark.


Arshes Nei said:


> The difference is it doesn't matter. There's been a long time in production of the games that it can stand to change it up. We're talking 20 years now.


Nintendo never change it up UNLESS someone makes it for them. (Metroid and Starfox)



Arshes Nei said:


> There is no whining as shitposting since there's more than one person that thinks it's not a bad idea.


Who?

Pachi hates Eiji Aonuma for shitting over Zelda and other nintendo stuff.

Not sure about Runefox...



Arshes Nei said:


> You, you just post stupid image posts with little to no content. You have nothing else to say than one sentence monkikers.


Once in this topic so far...



Arshes Nei said:


> You don't really have discussions,


Then what are we having right now?



Arshes Nei said:


> If that's too difficult then stop complaining about us having a discussion.


No, I'm baffled at the that whole argument on the last page.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Having Link be a second quest would either require him to conform to Zelda's playstyle, or for the second quest to be an entirely new game.



What *is* Zelda's playstyle?


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> What *is* Zelda's playstyle?


Shiek?


----------



## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> What *is* Zelda's playstyle?


She plays keepaway with Din's Fire and has powerful KO moves, although she lacks combos and has poor movement.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

If Shiek or Impa were a playable character wouldn't she play like a musou character?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

SirRob said:


> She plays keepaway with Din's Fire and has powerful KO moves, although she lacks combos and has poor movement.



... Based on... SSB?


----------



## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> ... Based on... SSB?


Mm, well it's pretty much the only moveset she's got. She doesn't have an established playstyle, but it doesn't really matter. The developers wouldn't have a hard time giving her a unique spin on Zelda gameplay. The issue is that the gameplay, no matter what it was, would be different from Link's. Otherwise... why not just use Link, you know?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

Think this will help the Wii U in any way?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 20, 2013)

I thought it was mentioned earlier that Zelda had different gameplay mechanics in their games?


----------



## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I thought it was mentioned earlier that Zelda had different gameplay mechanics in their games?


Uh huh... But if Link had a second quest in a Princess Zelda centric game, the two wouldn't have the same playstyles no matter what-- that would require the second quest to be a major overhaul of the game. That's the point I'm trying to argue right now.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

SirRob said:


> She plays keepaway with Din's Fire and has powerful KO moves, although she lacks combos and has poor movement.



I have a friend that's a very good Zelda without Sheik. She has VERY good priority especially that up smash. 
Though yeah her movement is crap.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I thought it was mentioned earlier that Zelda had different gameplay mechanics in their games?



Well the 2D ones have different mechanics from the 3D ones (You have an additional dimension to move in).


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well the 2D ones have different mechanics from the 3D ones (You have an additional dimension to move in).



I'm sorry to be blunt, but no shit.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Think this will help the Wii U in any way?


Are there actually more than two games worth buying on WiiU right now that aren't pack-ins, remakes, or games also on other platforms? ... Hell, are there _two_?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Are there actually more than two games worth buying on WiiU right now that aren't pack-ins, remakes, or games also on other platforms? ... Hell, are there _two_?



Wonderful 101 is a fucking fantastic game. Pikmin 3 is also. That's about it as far as somewhat fresh games go.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, there's Pikmin 3, New Super Mario Bros. U, NintendoLand, Rayman Legends, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, and maybe Scribblenauts?

.....Well, if the Wii U fails, how long until the next Nintendo home console comes out?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Wonderful 101 is a fucking fantastic game. Pikmin  3 is also. That's about it as far as somewhat fresh games go.



It's been pretty poorly received, at least in Japan, and from what I know of the gameplay, not worth $60. But that's just me.



TransformerRobot said:


> Well, there's *Pikmin 3*, *New Super Mario Bros. U*, NintendoLand, Rayman Legends, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, and maybe Scribblenauts?



I've helpfully bolded the only two out of the ones you've listed  that fall under the criteria "that aren't pack-ins, remakes, or games  also on other platforms". Though I'm kind of being generous on NSMBU.  That said, the total there works out to 3 if I include Pachi's  suggestion, so if you're going to buy a WiiU, the Target deal will get  you all the games worth playing on the WiiU, assuming they're your cup of tea.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Oh, I played 101 myself at a friends. I fuckign loved it.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

Now I wanna play The Wonderful 101.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

It can be confusing control wise, but it's great fun when you get the hang of it. A pretty game too. I love that cheesy appeal it was going for also.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

I also hear that people have been criticizing the idea of Wonder Black being dark skinned.

So what? It's not like he has big pink lips and eats fried chicken with watermelon. Some people are just too sensitive.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

...Didn't you get on the new Shantae design because she was slightly lighter? @-@

Nevermind. Doesn't matter. Point taken


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 20, 2013)

SirRob said:


> She plays keepaway with Din's Fire and has powerful KO moves, although she lacks combos and has poor movement.



One guy who works at a used game store plays Brawl LIKE A BOSS.  When he plays Zelda (and Zelda Zelda, not Shiek) he has basically 111% accuracy with that Din's Fire.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Be pretty cool this team hadn't quit and somehow got it on Wii U. I'd shit bricks. Followed this for years. :c

[video=youtube;AFnSvromImU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFnSvromImU[/video]



Stratadrake said:


> One guy who works at a used game store plays Brawl LIKE A BOSS.  When he plays Zelda (and Zelda Zelda, not Shiek) he has basically 111% accuracy with that Din's Fire.



Stuff of Nightmares. I swear to FUCK.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> ...Didn't you get on the new Shantae design because she was slightly lighter? @-@



I just want more dark-skinned heroes in games.

Also, Nintendo should've made another Star Fox game for the Wii U.

However, THIS happened...

Thanks a lot IGN.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Not gonna happen.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Not gonna happen.



If you mean Nintendo making a new Star Fox game, then I'm starting to agree with you.

Unless you meant something else.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> However, THIS happened...
> 
> Thanks a lot IGN.



Uhh... It's not unreasonable to ask if a game is going to be developed and what time frame it would be expected to be released in if so. It's not IGN's fault. It's Kamiya's. And whoever wrote this blog post (this is a blog) is a moron.

That said? Star Fox is dead. Ever since Nintendo forced Rare to turn Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures, the games have been for all intents and purposes terrible. For the record, Adventures sold 1.87 million copies. Star Fox Assault was a joke; Polished but short enough to feel like a demo. Unsurprisingly sold just over a million copies worldwide (I'm among those that bought it). Star Fox Command was fun, but the storyline was horrible, and the game sold a little over half a million (again, I bought it). SF64 3D sold a little under 3/4 million copies. Star Fox 64 sold more than 4 million copies, essentially matching sales of every Star Fox(-branded) game released since, combined.

To Nintendo, that looks a whole lot like nobody cares about Star Fox (never mind that the games were flawed).

Wanna know what I want, Nintendo? It's real simple. Give Star Fox to Project ACES to develop.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Uhh... It's not unreasonable to ask if a game is going to be developed and what time frame it would be expected to be released in if so. It's not IGN's fault. It's Kamiya's. And whoever wrote this blog post (this is a blog) is a moron.
> 
> That said? Star Fox is dead. Ever since Nintendo forced Rare to turn Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures, the games have been for all intents and purposes terrible. For the record, Adventures sold 1.87 million copies. Star Fox Assault was a joke; Polished but short enough to feel like a demo. Unsurprisingly sold just over a million copies worldwide (I'm among those that bought it). Star Fox Command was fun, but the storyline was horrible, and the game sold a little over half a million (again, I bought it). SF64 3D sold a little under 3/4 million copies. Star Fox 64 sold more than 4 million copies, essentially matching sales of every Star Fox(-branded) game released since, combined.
> 
> ...



Then why is Fox McCloud still in Super Smash Bros. 4?


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## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

...He's still an IP.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> ...He's still an IP.



An IP who hasn't had any successful outings since 2002.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> An IP who hasn't had any successful outings since *1997*.


Fixed. But, uh, you'll notice that Samus was in the original SSB, when there hadn't been a single Metroid game since Super Metroid. Same with DK. And Ness. And... Come on. SSB is all about just mashing as much IP together as possible. That's what it was all about to begin with.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> An IP who hasn't had any successful outings since 2002.



Oh my God...

Pit didn't even _have_ a game in 25 years and he was still in Brawl. It doesn't matter. Characters are characters. Sonic was put in Brawl and at that time his rep was still in the dirt.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 20, 2013)

True. And Pit and Sonic both got big lifts in their reputations after appearing in Brawl. Kid Icarus: Uprising and Sonic Generations both came out afterwards.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Generations had nothing to do with Brawl. That was an anniversary game.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Pit didn't even _have_ a game in 25 years and he was still in Brawl.


Neither did Ice Climbers or Rob, really.  They were all pretty much one-hit wonders.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 20, 2013)

Fox, Wolf and Falco are all in Brawl because Star Fox is popular... in Smash Bros.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Stratadrake said:


> Neither did Ice Climbers or Rob, really.  They were all pretty much one-hit wonders.



Shit, R.O.B. never even had a true game. Only games I can think of where he was actually IN them as cameos were StarTropics, F-Zero GX, and I suppose the Starfox series.

I'm gonna be sad if he isn't in Smash 4. QnQ



SirRob said:


> Fox, Wolf and Falco are all in Brawl because Star Fox is popular... in Smash Bros.



And because they're all CHEAP!


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Star Fox Command was fun, but the storyline was horrible


Oh come, I know you laughed at the part where Fox was on the verge of crying because he was getting told by Star wolf.
















I know did.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 20, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> Oh come, I know you laughed at the part where Fox was on the verge of crying because he was getting told by Star wolf.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



God I hated the artwork in that game. ;-;


----------



## Runefox (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Shit, R.O.B. never even had a true game.


R.O.B. had 2 games.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 20, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> God I hated the artwork in that game. ;-;



"We spent all of the budget on the 3D models!"


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 21, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> "We spent all of the budget on the 3D models!"



They weren't even that good. I LOVED that game to pieces because it was basically a spiffied up and released version of Starfox II which is my favorite. But, Jesus H. Christ... The style was atrocious. All of it.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Generations had nothing to do with Brawl. That was an anniversary game.



But also a 3D Sonic game that didn't suck.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 21, 2013)

...

Still nothing to do with...just nvm.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 21, 2013)

Well, the digital version of Wind Waker HD was released yesterday. Don't know if that'll do any good for the Wii U or not.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 21, 2013)

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 21, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda



I know, but I remember a few of you guys were mad that the digital version came before the physical version.

Plus, I don't know of any sites keeping track of digital sales.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm keeping tabs on VGChartz.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 21, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I'm keeping tabs on VGChartz.



They don't seem too reliable when keeping track of digital sales on the Wii U and 3DS. At least for what I've seen.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 21, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> They don't seem too reliable when keeping track of digital sales on the Wii U and 3DS. At least for what I've seen.



http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-legend-of-zelda-a-sales-history.452543570/

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/zelda-news/comparing-skyward-swords-japanese-and-usa-sales-figures/


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 21, 2013)

TP sold double SS.








:3c


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 22, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-legend-of-zelda-a-sales-history.452543570/



Ah, that's better.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 22, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Ah, that's better.



Whatever, it's pretty much the same thing. Geeze.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 22, 2013)

I just realized that the fact that the 360, PS3 and Wii still have such strong fanbases, while the Wii U has only been out for less than a year, is a big factor in it's predicament.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 22, 2013)

Considering the WiiU is backwards compatible for Wii games, it has even less of an excuse.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

Then what other excuses does it have besides shovelware?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 23, 2013)

Unlike the Playstation and Xbox the WiiU is backwards compatible to Wii games. That should be a "no brainer" for most Nintendo fans since they don't have to throw out too much of their library or system. That essentially should have been the appeal. However, the expensive tablet and price hurt.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Unlike the Playstation and Xbox the WiiU is backwards compatible to Wii games. That should be a "no brainer" for most Nintendo fans since they don't have to throw out too much of their library or system. That essentially should have been the appeal. However, the expensive tablet and price hurt.



So they should've just with a bigger and more powerful version of the Wii?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 23, 2013)

They should have put together a better business plan. Why would someone need the new WiiU, what titles are out for it and what titles are coming up. What really makes the console different or similar to the older one (backwards compatibility). The hardware was barely a footnote over the confusing tablet. The titles being announced were pretty weak. Hearing it would have Third Party support was a plus since it was a big complaint, but hearing companies drop out wasn't helpful.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> They should have put together a better business plan. Why would someone need the new WiiU, what titles are out for it and what titles are coming up. What really makes the console different or similar to the older one (backwards compatibility).



Is it too late for them to carry that plan out now?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> They should have put together a better business plan. Why would someone need the new WiiU, what titles are out for it and what titles are coming up. What really makes the console different or similar to the older one (backwards compatibility). The hardware was barely a footnote over the confusing tablet. The titles being announced were pretty weak. Hearing it would have Third Party support was a plus since it was a big complaint, but hearing companies drop out wasn't helpful.



Nintendo fanboys don't like hearing it, but specs DO matter beyond graphical capabilities.
And Bethesda said it themselves. DIRECTLY to Nintendo. They should have acted before the release of the system like MS and like Sony. It's too late. So now they have to carry the system almost exclusively by themselves.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

Maybe, but there might be something they can do.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

Who?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Who?



Nintendo, obviously. They've been in worse situations before.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Nintendo, obviously. They've been in worse situations before.



Yes, they've been in worse, but this console is still doing bad (at least until Broken Kart 8 comes out) with incompetent management shoving it's thumb up it's ass going "WelL WUt do we DOoOo!?". That's all that matters. And the lack of important engines also spells a bad omen.
Now, Epic said the new Unreal engine CAN work on the Wii U if they wanted it to, but it's not targeting the console. Sad considering phones are getting a mobile version. It's scalable as the following article says so if someone wants to sacrifice graphics and use it on the Wii U, that's a possibility.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...pers_can_use_unreal_engine_4_for_wii_u_titles

Frostbite 3? PFFFFT!! XD


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Yes, they've been in worse, but this console is still doing bad (at least until Broken Kart 8 comes out) with incompetent management shoving it's thumb up it's ass going "WelL WUt do we DOoOo!?". That's all that matters.
> Now, Epic said the new Unreal engine CAN work on the Wii U if they wanted it to, but it's not targeting the console. Sad considering phones are getting a mobile version. It's scalable as the following article says so if someone wants to sacrifice graphics and use it on the Wii U, that's a possibility.
> 
> http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...pers_can_use_unreal_engine_4_for_wii_u_titles
> ...



(BROKEN Kart? I don't get it.)

Then it really is Iwata's fault.

If Yamauchi were still with us he'd be ashamed of his successor.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

It's a petty  snipe I toss at Mario Kart's often randomized "Give-people-who-suck-a-disproportionate-advantage" nature which made me quit playing them after Double Dash. Don't worry about it. 

And I'm not gonna go to deep into what Yamauchi would have thought. I judge Iwata as a CEO, and not as a person. I'm willing to bet Yamauchi was close with most of the important employees and if anything was just skeptical of the choices. Not outright ashamed.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> It's a petty  snipe I toss at Mario Kart's often randomized "Give-people-who-suck-a-disproportionate-advantage" nature which made me quit playing them after Double Dash. Don't worry about it.
> 
> And I'm not gonna go to deep into what Yamauchi would have thought. I judge Iwata as a CEO, and not as a person. I'm willing to bet Yamauchi was close with most of the important employees and if anything was just skeptical of the choices. Not outright ashamed.



I didn't mean it like that either, I just think Iwata is doing badly at his job.

Geeze, the more I hear of this, the more it feels like Nintendo's going to shut down, never again to make games.

For that I blame Iwata's bad business practices, Microsoft fucking up Rare, and Sony being underhanded.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

If you honestly think Nintendo is going to lose over $14,000,000,000 over the Wii U...Jesus H. Christ.

And Rare was made irrelevant back in 2006. Why would that affect Nintendo now? They've got Retro Studios, Monolith Soft, HAL, Sega temporarily, Sora. They don't need Rare. We just want Rare. 


GodDAMN I'd love another Jet Force Gemini.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> If you honestly think Nintendo is going to lose over $14,000,000,000 over the Wii U...Jesus H. Christ.



That's how it feels at least.

I figured they'd loose at least $5,000,000,000 over it's failure, and not make another console again. They can't survive on just handhelds.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> That's how it feels at least.
> 
> I figured they'd loose at least $5,000,000,000 over it's failure, and not make another console again. They can't survive on just handhelds.



You wanna put money on that?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You wanna put money on that?



No, and what are you implying?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

I personally think Nintendo could last pretty long on handhelds if they REALLY put their all into it. I'm talking aggressive advertising. Snatching up those third parties at the RIGHT time. Decent hardware. Excellent first party titles at a DECENT rate not this one big game with a few copycats per generation bullshit.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 23, 2013)

They probably could survive on handhelds or they could downsize...or do what every company was doing in Japan when they were dire straits and make an anime/manga division


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> They probably could survive on handhelds or they could downsize...or do what every company was doing in Japan when they were dire straits and make an anime/manga division



I mean...Sega has NO hardware. And they can't STOP making profits recently.

Well, technically they have hardware being big on casinos and arcades, but you know what I mean.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

Yeah, but Nintendo only has games, and merchandise related to their games.

Yes, there have been Nintendo comics, but the most recent one I know about is Pokemon Special (And it's a big piece of garbage).

What else is Nintendo good at besides handhelds and handheld games?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 23, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Yeah, but Nintendo only has games, and merchandise related to their games.
> Exactly. Nintendo has games and merch related to their games. That means they make most of their money from that - Not their consoles. They could realistically release their games on any platform and be successful, it just so happens that they choose to make their own platforms and the most recent one hasn't done so hot to date. If Nintendo actually had games ready to go at release, perhaps this wouldn't have been such a big deal; The NES had SMB (in the US, anyway), the SNES had Mario World, the N64 had Mario 64, the Gamecube had... Uh... Well, this is where things started going awry as far as first party titles go. Iwata apologized for that as well, and promised that the Wii wouldn't suffer from that problem. And then he apologized again when the Wii DID, promising the WiiU wouldn't. Hooray for Iwata. Seriously, Iwata's a great public speaker and amazing talking head for Nintendo, but he makes the worst decisions.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 23, 2013)

If the Wii U fails, there is this other option, but it sounds almost too ridiculous to be practical:

-Recover any losses on unsold Wii U consoles by bringing them back to manufacturing, then begin converting them into a much more powerful console with better launch titles for it.

That is how Donkey Kong got off the ground:

-Convert unsold Radar Scope cabinets into Donkey Kong cabinets, thus saving them a bundle, and making a beloved classic in the process.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 23, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> If the Wii U fails, there is this other option, *but it sounds almost too ridiculous to be practical*:



Because it is. Unless you were joking.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 23, 2013)

Arcade units in themselves are expensive to manufacture, and expensive to buy. Converting them by swapping cabinet art and ROM chips were relatively cost-effective as long as the underlying hardware remained the same (in fact, the Neo Geo MVS was built around this concept, essentially adopting the same techniques as home consoles by using replaceable cartridges on common hardware). Converting a home console like a WiiU into something more powerful would inherently require... Well, more or less completely replacing the unit wholesale. WiiU's are mass-produced and designed to be inexpensive to manufacture.

If this were at all logistically sound, there wouldn't be console generations, you'd simply buy upgrades from Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 23, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Geeze, the more I hear of this, the more it feels like Nintendo's going to shut down, never again to make games.


Don't be so ridiculous.


TransformerRobot said:


> I figured they'd loose at least $5,000,000,000 over it's failure, and not make another console again. They can't survive on just handhelds.


True story: GBA saved Nintendo when GameCube bombed.

That's why Nintendo is more focused on handhelds than consoles.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 24, 2013)

You know speaking of handhelds, since Skyward Sword sold like trash (do I need to say it?) compared to the other titles, it makes me wonder how LttP 1.5 is going to do.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah! You do need to say it! [noparse][/noparse] 
Skyward Sword probably sold relatively poorly because it was towards the end of the Wii's life, plus it required Wii Motion Plus. Twilight Princess probably sold more since it was a launch title, plus it was on both the Gamecube and Wii.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 24, 2013)

I don't know about EOL being the reason since WiiU sales were kinda poor and not to mention even if you bought SS at the EOL of the Wii it should be compatible with the Wii U. Maybe the Motion Plus could be the issue. It being an anniversary title should have brought more sales too.

One thing I did notice is that the concept art is very vibrant and colorful compared to the saturated but dull look of the game itself. In a way it kinda reminds me of Tangled, that shot of the forest and tower had people salivating then when it was shown it was a CG movie people were disappointed and found the concept artwork more interesting than the movie. The movie isn't bad but it didn't meet the expectations of the artwork that was shown prior.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 24, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Skyward Sword probably sold relatively poorly because it was towards the end of the Wii's life, plus it *required Wii Motion Plus*.


This is exactly why I didn't pick it up, full stop. Well, that and the price tag, but seriously, I'm not about to drop $60 on the game _plus_ another $45 on a Wii Remote Plus just so I can play that one game. The special edition with bundled controller was unavailable shortly after release, and the $25 Wii Motion Plus attachments _conveniently_ disappeared from retail simultaneously.



> Twilight Princess probably sold more since it was a launch title, plus it was on both the Gamecube and Wii.


How about that? A major Nintendo franchise as a launch title for a Nintendo console!


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> This is exactly why I didn't pick it up, full stop. Well, that and the price tag, but seriously, I'm not about to drop $60 on the game _plus_ another $45 on a Wii Remote Plus just so I can play that one game. The special edition with bundled controller was unavailable shortly after release, and the $25 Wii Motion Plus attachments _conveniently_ disappeared from retail simultaneously.
> 
> 
> How about that? A major Nintendo franchise as a launch title for a Nintendo console!



WOT A FOOKIN WEIRD FORMULA!!!! A game that makes MONEY with a system they hope will make MONEY. Honestly I thought it was pretty goddamn smart of them to make TP multiplat.

And Wii + barely had any games anyway. What else did it have? Red Shit 2? That game was a VAST improvement on the original yes. But it's like how AVGN says. "That's like saying the shit that I took today was better than the shit I took yesterday".

Aside from Zelda there was NO insentive to buy that damn thing.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Arcade units in themselves are expensive to manufacture, and expensive to buy. Converting them by swapping cabinet art and ROM chips were relatively cost-effective as long as the underlying hardware remained the same (in fact, the Neo Geo MVS was built around this concept, essentially adopting the same techniques as home consoles by using replaceable cartridges on common hardware). Converting a home console like a WiiU into something more powerful would inherently require... Well, more or less completely replacing the unit wholesale. WiiU's are mass-produced and designed to be inexpensive to manufacture.
> 
> If this were at all logistically sound, there wouldn't be console generations, you'd simply buy upgrades from Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo.



Maybe Nintendo could manufacture their own external hard drives for the Wii U, just to cash in on that? Most people who'd buy it would be people who already have plenty of games for the system (even though there aren't many available to begin with ) but need more storage space.



XoPachi said:


> WOT A FOOKIN WEIRD FORMULA!!!! A game that makes  MONEY with a system they hope will make MONEY. Honestly I thought it was  pretty goddamn smart of them to make TP multiplat.
> 
> And Wii + barely had any games anyway. What else did it have? Red Shit  2? That game was a VAST improvement on the original yes. But it's like  how AVGN says. "That's like saying the shit that I took today was better  than the shit I took yesterday".
> 
> Aside from Zelda there was NO insentive to buy that damn thing.



*points on the Wii's sales charts* Really?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 24, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> *points on the Wii's sales charts* Really?



The hardware sold well because it was cheaper and more for casuals. This to me isn't bad and no denial the system sold well.
But here's a list of top selling games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

Most of those games are party games. Like sports, and dancing games. Kinda like how Guitar Hero pushed a lot of units when it was hot. So people in retirement homes could enjoy Wii sports but they certainly were not sitting around playing Metroid, Call of Duty or other games. It was mostly Mario Kart because anyone could join in that game. Possibly Super mario Brothers but I kinda doubt it - most bought the bundles for sports/fitness.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 24, 2013)

Why aren't these commercials helping the Wii U? To me they explain perfectly what it does:

[video=youtube;UVDQIp5uem8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVDQIp5uem8[/video]

Why all the dislikes?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 24, 2013)

*Because there are barely any fucking games for it for people to justify the price*


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 24, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Why aren't these commercials helping the Wii U?




>Leaked ad
>Leaked ad
>Leaked ad
>_Leaked_ ad


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> >Leaked ad
> >Leaked ad
> >Leaked ad
> >_Leaked_ ad



But they were leaked a few months ago. I thought they would have done something for the console if they were aired afterwards.

Also, good news for Japanese consumers.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 24, 2013)

Runefox said:


> How about that? A major Nintendo franchise as a launch title for a Nintendo console!


I think Nintendoland was their way of saying, look, ALL of our franchises are launch titles! Sure, it failed massively, but...


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah, good point.

Also, I found this.

But will it help Nintendo, or hurt them? How effective is digital marketing these days?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 24, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Maybe Nintendo could manufacture their  own external hard drives for the Wii U, just to cash in on that? Most  people who'd buy it would be people who already have plenty of games for  the system (even though there aren't many available to begin with :sad but need more storage space.


Uhh... You can already hook a USB hard drive up to the WiiU.  External hard drives are pretty close to cost in terms of pricing  already, I don't believe Nintendo could make an external hard drive that  would be compelling enough to buy for any reason.



TransformerRobot said:


> But they were leaked a few months ago. I thought they would have done something for the console if they were aired afterwards.


Leaked. As in, not released for public consumption. As in, only people specifically looking for them will see them. As in, only the people who care about the WiiU have seen them. As in, that won't help sales at all. To say nothing of the lack of games to play. Which the ad does nothing to address; Nintendo Land was the only title shown when they said "they've got something for everybody". This is obviously a pretty desperate attempt to fix the perception of the WiiU, particularly when calling it an "upgrade", along the same vein as sending out messages to every Wii owner urging them to upgrade. This probably wasn't released because it's not very effective.



TransformerRobot said:


> Also, good news for Japanese consumers.


Those bundles don't really add much... A Wiimote and "30 days of karaoke access"? NSMB U, Wii Party U, Wii Fit Meter? The least enticing things.



SirRob said:


> I think Nintendoland was their way of saying,  look, ALL of our franchises are launch titles! Sure, it failed  massively, but...


No, it was kind of their way of saying "Look, we don't really have  anything but a bunch of ideas. We kind of rushed the WiiU out the door  so we could cash in on being the first out of the gate in the next  generation of consoles instead of having to compete with the PS4 and  XBox One in mindshare once they're announced."


----------



## Ketsuo (Sep 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You know speaking of handhelds, since Skyward Sword sold like trash (do I need to say it?) compared to the other titles, it makes me wonder how LttP 1.5 is going to do.



Its a sequel to one of the best in the series and its on 3DS so it should do pretty decent.  I just hope that it doesn't disappoint me like ST and SS did.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> *Because there are barely any fucking games for it for people to justify the price*


He's not gonna listen to you.

You know what, Every time he posts we should just quote you.  


Ketsuo said:


> Its a sequel to one of the best in the series and its on 3DS so it should do pretty decent.  I just hope that it doesn't disappoint me like ST and SS did.



I was wondering about this the other day.

What if the people who bought PH and ST are still jaded over the overuse of the touch screen?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 24, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> He's not gonna listen to you.
> 
> You know what, Every time he posts we should just quote you.
> 
> ...



No, I'll listen to her, just not you.

And what are PH and ST?


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 24, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> No, I'll listen to her, just not you.


Yet, You're replying to me right now.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 24, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> And what are PH and ST?


Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Generally they're not regarded as highly as other Zelda titles, 'though I love Spirit Tracks.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 24, 2013)

SirRob said:


> Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Generally they're not regarded as highly as other Zelda titles, 'though I love Spirit Tracks.



I actually liked PT for what it was and tried to do. Had some neat concepts and a different yet still familiar approach to Zelda's exploration. It was just the tedium of that dungeon I got sick of. But I found the game rather solid. I had lower standards for handheld Zelda titles back when handheld specs were really in the dirt so I had a bit more patience (Capcom doe...they KNEW how to make a classic fucking Zelda. Minish Cap too OP. @w@). Now that we can get console quality longevity, visuals, and controls out of handhelds, I honestly think I can rightfully expect bigger better things with a portable Zelda, OoT3D NOT being that. 

Of course, that's all just how I personally feel.



Imperial Impact said:


> Yet, You're replying to me right now.



AND asked you a question right after that...


----------



## SirRob (Sep 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I actually liked PT for what it was and tried to do. Had some neat concepts and a different yet still familiar approach to Zelda's exploration. It was just the tedium of that dungeon I got sick of. But I found the game rather solid. I had lower standards for handheld Zelda titles back when handheld specs were really in the dirt so I had a bit more patience (Capcom doe...they KNEW how to make a classic fucking Zelda. Minish Cap too OP. @w@). Now that we can get console quality longevity, visuals, and controls out of handhelds, I honestly think I can rightfully expect bigger better things with a portable Zelda, OoT3D NOT being that.
> 
> Of course, that's all just how I personally feel.


I need to give both the DS Zeldas another go... Man, why do I even get new games? I could spend the rest of my life playing older games and never get bored.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 24, 2013)

SirRob said:


> I need to give both the DS Zeldas another go... Man, why do I even get new games? I could spend the rest of my life playing older games and never get bored.



You should have seen how pissed my friend got at Spirit Tracks because of something FUCKED up the game pulled when you had to take ice to this village I think. He got in his car, drove to the store, and sold it on the spot. I was DYING. XD
I have it lying around. I didn't really like it either, but I still beat it. Just because it was a new Zelda.

I swear to fucking Christ though, if Nintendo caves to these rampant nostalgia whores and rereleases Majora's Mask...

I'm going to say bad words. :<
I might not give a whole shit (I'll still give a quarter, just not an entire log) if they do it after 3 or 4 BIG console Zeldas, but not so soon. Not after 3 rereleases and a sequel to an older one. Just no. Let's get some fresh ideas going before we beat the legacy like a slutty dead horse again.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You should have seen how pissed my friend got at Spirit Tracks because of something FUCKED up the game pulled when you had to take ice to this village I think. He got in his car, drove to the store, and sold it on the spot. I was DYING. XD
> I have it lying around. I didn't really like it either, but I still beat it. Just because it was a new Zelda.
> 
> I swear to fucking Christ though, if Nintendo caves to these rampant nostalgia whores and rereleases Majora's Mask...
> ...


I can't think of any issues I've had in Spirit Tracks. I just have good memories of it, I remember having a bunch of fun. It was a breath of fresh air from Phantom Hourglass, which I felt was a step back in the series in terms of atmosphere. Spirit Tracks improved on literally everything Phantom Hourglass established, while having its own style.

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game, so I'd be happy if they released a remake of it. I agree that it would look bad if it was being made so close to other remakes, but, well... I'd still want it, haha. It'd have to be something the developers would be passionate about though, like they were with Wind Waker HD.


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## Ketsuo (Sep 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You should have seen how pissed my friend got at Spirit Tracks because of something FUCKED up the game pulled when you had to take ice to this village I think. He got in his car, drove to the store, and sold it on the spot. I was DYING. XD
> I have it lying around. I didn't really like it either, but I still beat it. Just because it was a new Zelda.
> 
> I swear to fucking Christ though, if Nintendo caves to these rampant nostalgia whores and rereleases Majora's Mask...
> ...



I got pretty pissed at ST but not angry enough to sell it.  I did at least beat it but I'm never playing it again.  As for MM I do feel that its the Zelda that could use a remake the most out of all of them but I can do without one.  What I feel it needs it most for is an updated inventory system somewhat like OoT3D got as there can be a lot of item switching at times with all the masks and items you get.  Of course a bit of an update to the graphics would be nice too since N64 games don't look the best nowadays especially when played on an hdtv.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 25, 2013)

If Majora's Mask _did_ get a remake, I'd want them to update it with sidequests for every NPC. _EVERY NPC._ Including Goron #72 and generic Deku Palace guard. The sidequests were by far my favorite part of the game.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 25, 2013)

Goron #72. lol
If they add a bunch of shit and I mean a BUNCH of shit (like a million side quests, new combat features, altered the world by about 75%, new items with the old, branching skill trees, supersonic racing, Black Bull instead of Epona, hijacking, intergalactic planetary planetary intergalactic travel, online 1v1 death matches, Daft Punk soundtrack, badass badassitude, MIDNA GIRLFRIEND PILLOWS) then I wouldn't mind. But a direct copy paste with better graphics like WWHD and OoT3D? 

That's no good. :c
It was already on N64, Gamecube, and Wii. But like I said, if they made a bunch of new stuff than rereleased it, I wouldn't care much.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Goron #72. lol
> If they add a bunch of shit and I mean a BUNCH of shit (like a million side quests, new combat features, altered the world by about 75%, new items with the old, branching skill trees, supersonic racing, Black Bull instead of Epona, hijacking, intergalactic planetary planetary intergalactic travel, online 1v1 death matches, Daft Punk soundtrack, badass badassitude, MIDNA GIRLFRIEND PILLOWS) then I wouldn't mind. But a direct copy paste with better graphics like WWHD and OoT3D?
> 
> That's no good. :c
> It was already on N64, Gamecube, and Wii. But like I said, if they made a bunch of new stuff than rereleased it, I wouldn't care much.



Me neither.

I'm still glad we're getting a fifth Donkey Kong Country game.

Also, whoa.

But this news still has me worried for Nintendo, and even Sony a little bit. Or should I not worry?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 25, 2013)

Why are you asking us?


----------



## SirRob (Sep 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> If they add a bunch of shit and I mean a BUNCH of shit (like a million side quests, new combat features, altered the world by about 75%, new items with the old, branching skill trees, supersonic racing, Black Bull instead of Epona, hijacking, intergalactic planetary planetary intergalactic travel, online 1v1 death matches, Daft Punk soundtrack, badass badassitude, MIDNA GIRLFRIEND PILLOWS) then I wouldn't mind.


If they added all that, I'd mind A LOT... x____x

I could go for a Pipit Boyfriend Pillow though.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Why are you asking us?



Because you know more about it than I do.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 25, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> whoa.


THERE IS NO REASON THAT YOU SHOULD BE SURPRISED.

WE TOLD YOU THAT NINTENDO HANDHELDS OUT SELL NINTENDO CONSOLES.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 25, 2013)

SirRob said:


> If they added all that, I'd mind A LOT... x____x
> 
> I could go for a Pipit Boyfriend Pillow though.



I was serious up until skill trees. lol
Sometimes I don't know what's wrong with me.

...

Seriously though. Who wouldn't want Black Bull over Epona? If you don't......you're not correct. :<


----------



## Runefox (Sep 25, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Also, whoa.


And the DS outsold the Wii in lifetime sales. Nintendo handhelds have *always* outsold their home consoles. The Game Boy Advance outsold the Gamecube by nearly a factor of 4.EDIT: Though I guess if you count the VirtualBoy a handheld, that's one that didn't outsell its home console.



> But this news still has me worried for Nintendo, and even Sony a little bit. Or should I not worry?


Not this shit again

Just because some asshole brings it up doesn't mean it's any more true than the umpteen other times it's been brought up.

OH NO A PHONE WAS RELEASED THAT IS FASTER THAN THE LAST ONE HOW WILL SONY RESPOND

... By doing exactly the same shit they always do. Sell consoles and sell games. Not that Sony's very good at that in the handheld arena. Nobody is going to forego the XBox One or PS4 for an iPhone 5S or iPad 5. It's a completely different experience. Maybe sometime in the future when smartphones are literally the only devices we need to own that can wirelessly beam 3D 120Hz 8k to a TV with no lag, sure. Right now, there is no substitute for a PC or console experience.

It's like saying that because handhelds outsell consoles, consoles no longer need to exist. They're in separate domains. They will be for some time.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 25, 2013)

Thank you fucking Christ for explaining what I did not feel like putting down. We said this when you linked ReviewTechUSA's irrelevant ass. Trust me man, phones aren't hurting anyone.


----------



## SirRob (Sep 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Seriously though. Who wouldn't want Black Bull over Epona? If you don't......you're not correct. :<


I'm a furry, you expect me to want to ride a machine instead of an animal?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 25, 2013)

SirRob said:


> I'm a furry, you expect me to want to ride a machine instead of an animal?



It's a machine named after an animal!! A much cooler animal!!! So...

Yes. :3


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 25, 2013)

The preorders for the PS4 iirc are record breaking. So I am not too worried about consoles phasing out now. It's more like other generations, but given that Sony also produces fucking phones, there's less reason for Sony to even be scared.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 25, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The preorders for the PS4 iirc are record breaking. So I am not too worried about consoles phasing out now. It's more like other generations, but given that Sony also produces fucking phones, there's less reason for Sony to even be scared.


Sony produces GOOD phones, too. And tablets. Xperia Z series is pretty boss, I have to say. The Xperia Tablet Z is the thinnest and lightest 10" tablet on the market with a great screen, a lot of nifty features (IR blaster, DualShock3 support), and good hardware. Waterproof up to 1m, too! I actually picked one up about a week ago. Quite impressed. The Xperia Z phone is well reviewed and also waterproof, and Sony has a lot of features related to it in the tablet.

Oh, but it still doesn't replace any of my gaming devices.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 25, 2013)

And it most likely never will. Even with the shitty wii remotes and that fucking handheld tube TV Nintendo fed us, they stick have tactile feedback. Gamers DON'T like having that removed as it is. The thought of phones and tablets, things moving towards touch only, replacing consoles on that fact alone is ludicrous. It may be big, but's NOT going to dominate what is a hardcore industry. Can you imagine how many genres would be absolutely ruined? Shooters, 3D platformers, FIGHTERS.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 25, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> FIGHTERS.


You mean you DON'T play Street Fighter IV with an on-screen joystick?!

Also, Microsoft demonstrated how laggy touchscreens really are.

Also, despite their advantages over resistive touchscreens, capacitive touchscreens are not very accurate by comparison. If you've ever been so sure you touched something on a touchscreen and found it didn't hit what you wanted, this is most likely why.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 26, 2013)

Sounds like EA is trolling.


----------



## Stratelier (Sep 26, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> But this news still has me worried for Nintendo, and even Sony a little bit. Or should I not worry?


Nintendo's still doing better than the post office.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 26, 2013)

I think you're missing that people may not buy consoles not because there are better gaming devices - it's more as to what is occupying a newer generations time. If someone is more content with what is going on with a mobile device than a console, they're more likely to go buy a mobile device than a console. Kids growing up on cell phones may have more interest in investing in better devices in that area when they get older than a game console.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 26, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think you're missing that people may not buy consoles not because there are better gaming devices - it's more as to what is occupying a newer generations time. If someone is more content with what is going on with a mobile device than a console, they're more likely to go buy a mobile device than a console. Kids growing up on cell phones may have more interest in investing in better devices in that area when they get older than a game console.



That's what worries me. It gives me the feeling that consoles and handheld game devices can't co-exist with tablet and phone games, as if one will someday kill the other.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 26, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> That's what worries me. It gives me the feeling that consoles and handheld game devices can't co-exist with tablet and phone games, as if one will someday kill the other.



I think Sony with the Vita TV has already adapted. Good Price, library of games people would probably play and has future plans. I don't think console gaming would go away completely but it will have to adapt. I don't think big boxes every few years are going to help. So consoles will need to be a bit more malleable.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 26, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think Sony with the Vita TV has already adapted. Good Price, library of games people would probably play and has future plans. I don't think console gaming would go away completely but it will have to adapt. I don't think big boxes every few years are going to help. So consoles will need to be a bit more malleable.



What if they got progressively smaller for better storage?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 26, 2013)

Then...they get progressively smaller for better storage?

It won't change anything other than production cost. It's done allllllllll the time.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 26, 2013)

Then what else can consoles do to stay alive?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 26, 2013)

This explains it even if it's focused on a console whose original problems were reversed.
Stop watching around 4 minutes.

[video=youtube;O7NtYTraQzo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7NtYTraQzo[/video]


----------



## Runefox (Sep 26, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Then what else can consoles do to stay alive?


Play to their strengths with powerful hardware that isn't available in the mobile space due to heat/battery concerns? Offer more streamlined approaches to buying games? Continue to provide input methods that are sufficiently different and more capable than touchscreens for more detailed gameplay? Continue to provide more robust experiences due to comparative lack of storage and bandwidth restrictions? Integrate directly and seamlessly with mobile devices for control, information and content streaming?

It's like asking what can desktop PC's do to stay alive in a world where laptops and tablets exist. They adapted in many ways; All-in-one PC's combine the traditional strengths of a desktop PC (stronger hardware than mobile, larger screen) with a much more convenient package which requires a single power cable. Some even transform into giant tablets with a battery big enough to keep it powered for some time for moving with it from room to room. Desktop PC's proper still have the advantage of versatility as far as expansion goes, which is something that even the all-in-ones can't claim. For many in the professional world, desktops are the only thing that will do what they need to do - High-end rendering, for example - and gamers usually have a hard time keeping up with a lower-powered all-in-one. It's the same with the console world.

Consoles were originally designed to play games, and that's what they excelled at. Enter the CD attachments of the early 90's and suddenly consoles were CD players, too. Fast forward to the PS2, and consoles became movie players. Now, consoles stream content, browse the internet, download games directly over the internet, and so on. Just because their media capacity is being devoured by Smart TV's, tablets, smartphones, and so on, doesn't mean that consoles are going to die, and just because you can play games on your tablet or smartphone doesn't mean that you won't play games on a console. It's the same thing with handhelds outselling consoles by a wide margin; Just because you can get your games on a handheld doesn't mean that you'll stop playing them on a console. It's a different class of device.

As for kids, just as many kids grow up with consoles as smartphones. Just like when I was a kid and everyone had or wanted an NES, today it's the same with the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360. Record preorder numbers for the PS4 don't lie. Even if the children aren't the driving force behind these sales, there are going to be that many households with a PS4 at launch. Besides, how many kids in the 90's grew up with a Game Boy? They probably have a 3DS today, but I doubt they've been handheld/mobile-faithful as a whole.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 27, 2013)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...eneration-not-the-end-of-video-game-consoles/


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Nintendo UK trying something. Maybe it will work.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...eneration-not-the-end-of-video-game-consoles/


Yeah, I totally agree with Yoshida. It's like the "PC gaming is dead" claims that have been wildly and constantly shouted for literally decades (and, of course, is going to be widely exclaimed *again* when this generation of consoles finally drops). It's the end of a console generation. A very long generation.

And yet, for some reason, some people I know are "refusing" to buy another console "so soon", but they'll be the first to say that games are stagnating. Why are they stagnating, though? Because the consoles have hit the wall as far as performance goes and in order to provide for the expectation of better and better graphics and larger environments, developers need to spend exceedingly and increasingly large amounts of time optimizing, which is time which could be spent with other areas of development and which could allow for more creative pursuits due to lesser time constraints and thus lower costs for development (but don't tell Miyamoto that).


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Yeah, I totally agree with Yoshida. It's like the "PC gaming is dead" claims that have been wildly and constantly shouted for literally decades (and, of course, is going to be widely exclaimed *again* when this generation of consoles finally drops). It's the end of a console generation. A very long generation.
> 
> And yet, for some reason, some people I know are "refusing" to buy another console "so soon", but they'll be the first to say that games are stagnating. Why are they stagnating, though? Because the consoles have hit the wall as far as performance goes and in order to provide for the expectation of better and better graphics and larger environments, developers need to spend exceedingly and increasingly large amounts of time optimizing, which is time which could be spent with other areas of development and which could allow for more creative pursuits due to lesser time constraints and thus lower costs for development (but don't tell Miyamoto that).



(But shouldn't he hear about this?)


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> (But shouldn't he hear about this?)


(I'm mostly referring to his excuses for why Pikmin 3 took so long; Just because they've never made an HD game before. Except there's examples of Japanese companies like Capcom, Square Enix and Konami who are doing pretty well with it, as are Sega, so there's proof of Japanese programmers and graphics artists being up to the task. Point is, they got themselves so used to hiding imperfections in more simplified graphics from the Gamecube and Wii that the WiiU's HD threw them a curveball. They say they need twice the human resources to make a game now, but I don't think that's true; Hire veterans who have been working in HD this past generation and get them to shore up the efforts of your regular staff, and before long you'll have adapted. Sony and Microsoft had this problem, too, when the PS3 and 360 launched, but Nintendo had plenty of time to learn from their mistakes)


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 27, 2013)

Games aren't exactly stagnating from graphics/performance. They help of course but if it's the same game (sequels) with better graphics you'll have the same complaints. Indie games are helping with some of it but variety helps a lot more.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Games aren't exactly stagnating from graphics/performance. They help of course but if it's the same game (sequels) with better graphics you'll have the same complaints. Indie games are helping with some of it but variety helps a lot more.


Well the thing is, a lot of "new" IP coming out looks pretty same-y with very little to differentiate it. A lot has to go into stuffing the visuals people expect into 256MB of graphics memory, and as a result, a lot of optimization and testing has to happen where that wasn't the case at the beginning of the generation. I imagine that the extra development time needed for that prevents many larger development houses from taking chances on games that would break the mold too greatly. That's why indie games with largely crude but stylized graphics which run on virtually anything are becoming so popular, and why they're more easily able to innovate.

That's not to say that major publishers / dev studios would, given infinite power, be able to focus entirely on making increasingly wacky games, but without the extra steps of having to optimize the crap out of the game, it leaves a lot of breathing room to do cool things.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 27, 2013)

Publishers need to stick with their budget instead of crunching. More power doesn't always mean a better developed game. They need to get out of the mentality that not every game needs to be a cinematic masterpiece if they don't have the budget for it, or pushing it on overworked staff. 

Just because one guy made some AAA title with beautiful backgrounds and cutscenes that last for hours, not every title needs to do it.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 27, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Publishers need to stick with their budget instead of crunching. More power doesn't always mean a better developed game. They need to get out of the mentality that not every game needs to be a cinematic masterpiece if they don't have the budget for it, or pushing it on overworked staff.
> 
> *Just because one guy made some AAA title with beautiful backgrounds and cutscenes that last for hours, not every title needs to do it.*



And this is sadly exactly what's happening with lots of games recently. Capcom, Konami, EA,(Nintendo in their own way), and a few others have been guilty of it yet DEAD set on continuing this. Castlevania is shit because it wanted to be "epic" instead of Castlevania. Resident Evil is shit because it wanted the Call of Duty audience instead of the one it already fucking had. Dead Space is shit because EA. And they all connect right back to wanting to ride the AAA wave hoping to and demanding make millions. Literally...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 27, 2013)

There are a lot of games I end up replaying more because of  little "investment". granted there are games where savepoints are everywhere but feeling like you have to get to certain stop points to save a game - or ones where  you have find a save point is one of the reasons I don't play certain games because I may have to get up and work on something else. 

Can hate on Angry Birds, but there's not too much investment, you quit - you just picked up on the last stage you left off and don't have to bemoan about the 2hrs you spend grinding to level up only to forget to hit save when your foot hit the reset button


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Publishers need to stick with their budget instead of crunching. More power doesn't always mean a better developed game. They need to get out of the mentality that not every game needs to be a cinematic masterpiece if they don't have the budget for it, or pushing it on overworked staff.
> 
> Just because one guy made some AAA title with beautiful backgrounds and cutscenes that last for hours, not every title needs to do it.



I know!

I'm currently playing The Wonderful 101, and no, it's not a cinematic masterpiece, but it's still a multicolor costumed ass-kicking good time!

Also, how come nobody is commenting on the article I posted earlier, which may be important?


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Publishers need to stick with their budget instead of crunching. More power doesn't always mean a better developed game. They need to get out of the mentality that not every game needs to be a cinematic masterpiece if they don't have the budget for it, or pushing it on overworked staff.
> 
> Just because one guy made some AAA title with beautiful backgrounds and cutscenes that last for hours, not every title needs to do it.


This is also true. What I'm saying is that for a given level of graphical fidelity, more powerful hardware costs less development time versus slower hardware. I like to think that Bethesda had to spend a lot of time polishing Skyrim's graphics instead of quality test-hahahahaha Bethesda quality testing a game. Still.

It really sucks that EVERY game has to be a HUGE AAA high-budget gamble these days. When the game doesn't meet expectations, that's a huge loss, so the company declares the series dead and moves on. Guitar Hero/Rock Band hit that point, EA likes to claim Medal of Honor hasn't but it really has, Mega Man's there (Maverick Hunter X was probably the straw that broke the camel's back there), Bionic Commando's there, Castlevania is rapidly approaching...

And you know what else sucks and is heavily related? The notion that games *have* to be reinvented on every release. Not every game needs to be "innovative", and more often than not, innovation ends up wrecking things. Castlevania comes to mind. Sure, some games have benefited from that, but why not evolve the gameplay formula you already had? Afraid people will call you lazy? I mean, people hate on the NSMB games, but they're a dirty pleasure of mine and they still sell like hotcakes despite being more or less the same game over and over again. Same with Call of Duty, though "different puzzles" in NSMB I think are more deserving of that kind of treatment than "more guns" in CoD. It's weird. It seems like developers / publishers sometimes don't know when to reinvent a series and when to simply stay the course.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Also, how come nobody is commenting on  the article I posted earlier, which may be important?


Okay.



TransformerRobot said:


> Nintendo UK trying something. Maybe it will work.



Well. They have the right idea, but without any details, it's hard to say. But they need to do *some* advertising. Seriously. There's practically none. Hopefully Nintendo Japan and US follow suit and, y'know, start telling people the WiiU exists.

EDIT: Shit, I meant for this to be an edit to the previous post. I'm terrible at paying attention today.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 27, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Maverick Hunter X was probably the straw that broke the camel's back there


Nope, It's was Star Force 2.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 27, 2013)

Shut up. We don't talk about Star Force.



Arshes Nei said:


> There are a lot of games I end up replaying more because of  little "investment". granted there are games where savepoints are everywhere but feeling like you have to get to certain stop points to save a game - or ones where  you have find a save point is one of the reasons I don't play certain games because I may have to get up and work on something else.
> 
> Can hate on Angry Birds, but there's not too much investment, you quit - you just picked up on the last stage you left off and don't have to bemoan about the 2hrs you spend grinding to level up only to forget to hit save when your foot hit the reset button



You don't have to tell me twice. Clocked 500 hours on a game that's beaten in one. :3
People underestimate and don't understand what REAL replay value is...well YOU don't (you Hexagon fiend 6-9).


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

Seriously, one minute later, two posts that would have prevented a double-post derp happen. fml.



Imperial Impact said:


> Nope, It's was Star Force 2.


I stopped paying attention after MMMHX. I heard about Star Force, got interested, realized it was Battle Network X, flipped a table.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> Nope, It's was Star Force 2.



No...

It. Was. This.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> No...
> 
> It. Was. This.



Oh.

Oh god.

You brought the memory back.

It wasn't this game.

But...

I...

I forgot this existed...


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 27, 2013)

Both of those were awful.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> It. Was. This.





Runefox said:


> I forgot this existed...


No, Thoses came years later after the Legends 3 shit storm.


XoPachi said:


> Shut up. We don't talk about Star Force.


But Star Force is really fun.


Game 2 was just not.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why no ads for The Wonderful 101?

This one wasn't even real, it was fan made!


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> But Star Force is really fun.


Good sir, you got your card battle in my Mega Man.

(I hated Battle Network / EXE, too)



TransformerRobot said:


> Why no ads for The Wonderful 101?
> 
> This one wasn't even real, it was fan made!


Once again, nobody seems to want to advertise *anything* for the WiiU. Except Sega. The irony.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 27, 2013)

Runefox said:


> (I hated Battle Network / EXE, too)



You're dead to me.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 27, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You're dead to me.



It's not Mega Man. >8[


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Good sir, you got your card battle in my Mega Man.
> Once again, nobody seems to want to advertise *anything* for the WiiU. Except Sega. The irony.



So once again, I have to ask:

[video=youtube;M4Wv60_FIl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Wv60_FIl8[/video]

It's like corporate sabotage, or at least a smear campaign. 

If they won't give the Wii U more advertising, then I will. Somehow.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 27, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> So once again, I have to ask:
> 
> [video=youtube;M4Wv60_FIl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Wv60_FIl8[/video]
> 
> ...


Because brawl came out before DKCR did?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 27, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> Because brawl came out before DKCR did?



He wasn't even in DKC Returns.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> It's not Mega Man. >8[



YOU'RE NOT MEGA MAN!!!!


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> YOU'RE NOT MEGA MAN!!!!



YOU'RE NOT A WARSHIP!!!!!


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Why no ads for The Wonderful 101?
> 
> This one wasn't even real, it was fan made!



I hate commercials that don't even show what the game does.  It's fine later when it becomes part of a joke, but that told me nothing about the damn game and why I should buy it - sans annoying voices like "wunder eyes PINK"


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> YOU'RE NOT A WARSHIP!!!!!



Joke ruined. -_-



Arshes Nei said:


> I hate commercials that don't even show what the game does.  It's fine later when it becomes part of a joke, but that told me nothing about the damn game and why I should buy it - sans annoying voices like "wunder eyes PINK"



I think after the original Macintosh ads, people thought they could get away with this for every type of product.  
Because I still see people doing this sort of thing. Gaming especially. That's why I usually hate E3 reveals. Square is notorious for that pretentious shit. Show graphics and totes EpIK cutscenes like this is the 90's.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

At least the Wii U version of Rayman Legends is the best selling version so far.

But I still haven't seen a commercial for ANY version of it.

It's like Nintendo's not the only one who thinks "We don't need to advertise on TV since everybody's on the internet constantly, herp derp!". That's the kind of mentality that kills a game rather than help it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 28, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I think after the original Macintosh ads, people thought they could get away with this for every type of product.
> Because I still see people doing this sort of thing. Gaming especially. That's why I usually hate E3 reveals. Square is notorious for that pretentious shit. Show graphics and totes EpIK cutscenes like this is the 90's.



Bryan Cranston should sell more games 

[yt]KRZydV8VCL4[/yt]

I get especially irritated with the not showing a game with Final Fantasy series, they're the worst offenders.
There's other ways to advertise than TV, and we already went through this before how Wii sold so it's kinda feeling redundant to repeat what was already said.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> He wasn't even in DKC Returns.


Then what are you blabbing about?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> Then what are you blabbing about?



I was gonna ask you the same thing.



Arshes Nei said:


> Bryan Cranston should sell more games
> 
> [yt]KRZydV8VCL4[/yt]
> 
> ...



Well, there was that little gathering Nintendo made when they released Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D (Redundant isn't it? ), where someone dressed as Donkey Kong jumped through a tearaway wall to hang out with customers. The reactions were great!

So why not try that again for more of Nintendo's big releases these coming months?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> At least the Wii U version of Rayman Legends is the best selling version so far.
> 
> But I still haven't seen a commercial for ANY version of it.
> 
> It's like Nintendo's not the only one who thinks "We don't need to advertise on TV since everybody's on the internet constantly, herp derp!". That's the kind of mentality that kills a game rather than help it.



That's why I say Sonic Lost World is going to spearhead Wii U sales (not sell hundreds of thousands, but it will be a _start_). Sega's been going on about it nonstop. At least on the Internet anyway and he's already an extremely iconic IP.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I was gonna ask you the same thing.


Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 2008

Donkey Kong Country Returns - 2010

"It's like corporate sabotage, or at least a smear campaign."

How?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 2008
> 
> Donkey Kong Country Returns - 2010
> 
> ...



Certain people are deliberately not advertising for Wii U to make sure it fails. At least that's how frustrating it feels.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Certain people are deliberately not advertising for Wii U to make sure it fails. At least that's how frustrating it feels.


How's that got to do with Brawl?


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> How's that got to do with Brawl?



Nothing, I was just using that video to express my sever dissatisfaction with the lack of Wii U advertising.

I wonder if that thing Nintendo UK said they'd do with Tesco customers would work.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

So basically, you're not making any sense...again.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> So basically, you're not making any sense...again.



I'm a hard guy to explain. I often can't understand myself.

I'm also sick of advertisers holding out on the Wii U. It's as if they'd rather advertise for NotBackwardsCompatibleStation 4 or XBONE, than the more affordable console of this generation.


----------



## Ketsuo (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I'm a hard guy to explain. I often can't understand myself.
> 
> I'm also sick of advertisers holding out on the Wii U. It's as if they'd rather advertise for NotBackwardsCompatibleStation 4 or XBONE, than the more affordable console of this generation.



How are advertisers holding out on the Wii U exactly?  If Nintendo paid to have ads put up I'm sure tv stations, websites, etc would put up the ads since what they really want is money regardless of who is giving it to them.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I'm also sick of advertisers holding out on the Wii U. It's as if they'd rather advertise for NotBackwardsCompatibleStation 4 or XBONE, than the more affordable console of this generation.


... It's not up to the advertisers to advertise. It's up to the company that makes the product. Advertisers don't mull over a bunch of topics to advertise for, they advertise for what they're paid to advertise for.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> ... It's not up to the advertisers to advertise. It's up to the company that makes the product. Advertisers don't mull over a bunch of topics to advertise for, they advertise for what they're paid to advertise for.



I meant that they were refusing to accept advertising jobs from Nintendo, and instead accept job offers from other developers.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I meant that they were refusing to accept advertising jobs from Nintendo, and instead accept job offers from other developers.


I don't think that's how it works. For that matter, I haven't even seen any ads for the XBOne or PS4 yet, either, but you can bet that will ramp up when launch day approaches. It's that Nintendo hasn't actually been trying to advertise.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 28, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I don't think that's how it works. For that matter, I haven't even seen any ads for the XBOne or PS4 yet, either, but you can bet that will ramp up when launch day approaches. It's that Nintendo hasn't actually been trying to advertise.



Then all that's left I guess is to whine and bitch about it until they do.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

Can't really blame advertisers. I don't think they'd want to turn down thousands from a multi billion dollar corporation. What in the world would they have against Nintendo anyway? I can answer that. Absolutely nothing.

And I'd rather whine and bitch about GAMES. Ads are Nintendo's problem. That doesn't benefit us as a consumer. Maybe indirectly in some very distant aspect, but not directly. WE want products TO advertise.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 28, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I meant that they were refusing to accept advertising jobs from Nintendo, and instead accept job offers from other developers.



You need to do research on how advertising agencies work before making such stupid claims. If it was so dependent upon advertising why are there record preorders for PS4 and XboxOne?


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You need to do research on how advertising agencies work before making such stupid claims. If it was so dependent upon advertising why are there record preorders for PS4 and XboxOne?



Pleeeeaaaase, don't ask anymore questions...

Arshes...stahp. ;w;


----------



## Runefox (Sep 28, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And I'd rather whine and bitch about GAMES. Ads are Nintendo's problem. That doesn't benefit us as a consumer. Maybe indirectly in some very distant aspect, but not directly. WE want products TO advertise.



Well, it's kind of a catch-22. No awareness = Comparatively small audience = Nobody wants to make games for it = Nothing to advertise = No advertising = No awareness ad infinitum.

Nintendo needs to break open the checkbook and pay third parties for exclusives and exclusive features of ports, and they need to spend the bucks to *advertise that*. As yet, they've only halfheartedly attracted third parties, as is evident in the Arkham Origins port. They also need to get off their asses and put some extra effort into getting their games out the door on time, and *advertise them*.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Sep 28, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Can't really blame advertisers. I don't think they'd want to turn down thousands from a multi billion dollar corporation. What in the world would they have against Nintendo anyway? I can answer that. Absolutely nothing.
> 
> And I'd rather whine and bitch about GAMES. Ads are Nintendo's problem. That doesn't benefit us as a consumer. Maybe indirectly in some very distant aspect, but not directly. WE want products TO advertise.


B-but 3DS games gets ads!

Even thought it's 3DS's year and not WiiU's...


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 29, 2013)

Imperial Impact said:


> B-but 3DS games gets ads!
> 
> Even thought it's 3DS's year and not WiiU's...



Well yeah, that's why I (no longer) make fun of the 3DS. It's got a fantastic library and it keeps getting better and better. I mean...look at October's fucking line up. Zelda, Sonic, and Pokemon. In ONE month. But Wii U? I don't need to repeat myself. 
I'm finding the irony in the flip flop of Sony's situation. Vita library is shit, but the PS4's is gonna be good right from the gate with QUALITY free games and big new ones launch day. On the other hand, Nintendo's dumbass console has nothing, but the 3DS is a bite size colossus.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 29, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Well yeah, that's why I (no longer) make fun of the 3DS. It's got a fantastic library and it keeps getting better and better. I mean...look at October's fucking line up. Zelda, Sonic, and Pokemon. In ONE month. But Wii U? I don't need to repeat myself.
> I'm finding the irony in the flip flop of Sony's situation. Vita library is shit, but the PS4's is gonna be good right from the gate with QUALITY free games and big new ones launch day. On the other hand, Nintendo's dumbass console has nothing, but the 3DS is a bite size colossus.



Blame whoever at Nintendo stinks at marketing decisions.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 30, 2013)

bleepbloop said:
			
		

> I think that the 2DS is getting bashed a lot. But I think people are  failing to see that, in theory, the 2DS is a really good console. A  cheaper 3DS, built more for children, that also caters to those who  don't want the 3D feature.


Well, "built more for children" doesn't really make much sense seeing as the 3DS is essentially that, anyway. But if they'd just released the 3DS without the 3D to begin with, I think it would have been that much more affordable and also less gimmicky.



> Where the 2DS completely bombed was in it's design. Needless to say,  it's just plain awful. It's a bulky mess that has it's layout all over  the place, in a way that makes it look just plain awkward. And it's not  very portable, you'd need to manhandle in your pocket or put in a  backpack/purse to carry it around. Or just have absurdly wide pockets.  And last time I checked, the point of having a handled console it to  play outside of your home and carry around easily. Also, it has that  weird slant that almost makes it look like the head of a hatchet.


Pretty much all the complaints that anyone has with it. If they'd stuffed the 2DS into the standard 3DS clamshell (maybe even keep the 3D slider as a brightness slider), that would have been far better. But I *guess* they're saving money with the single large screen setup, hence the lack of hinges.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

*sees that US shoppers prefer PS4*

Well, Nintendo's officially screwed. Looks like I'll be the minority. Again.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> *sees that US shoppers prefer PS4*
> 
> Well, Wii U's officially screwed. Looks like I'll be the minority. Again.



Repaired.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

Maybe things will pick up as soon as Super Mario 3D World and Donkey Kong Country 5 arrive in stores.

That, and maybe Wii Fit U and Wii Sports U will help.


----------



## Runefox (Sep 30, 2013)

Wii Fit and Wii Sports U are both ultracasual games that will appeal mainly to the Joe Everyconsumer who bought the Wii for those titles, but they won't do much to repair the console's reputation among gamers and they won't fix the branding problems that continue to plague the system. It's this audience exactly that doesn't know the WiiU exists.

SM3DW may help, but I can't see DKC being a huge seller; I predict similar sales to Pikmin. Nintendo absolutely needs an SSB title, stat, and they need to shake their reputation among third parties as "the other console" that they've cultivated since the N64. Unfortunately, the hardware is a major stumbling block, and Nintendo's lackadaisy handling of advertising and brand awareness has put them at a serious disadvantage. Now, as was the case of the Wii and Gamecube before it, Nintendo's home console is a pedestal to showcase Nintendo games alone, with few exceptions. Even just the disparity in hardware power is a major hurdle for third parties developing cross platform, with significant work having to go into optimizing the game for the graphical limitations and controls alike. It's up to Nintendo to fix this problem and draw support to the WiiU like they did with the DS and 3DS. Hopefully they get their act together sooner than later.


----------



## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

Wii Sports Club DEFINITELY won't help due to the slimey underhanded EA level business model of the game. 

Sure, repackage a 7 year old title every Wii owner got for FREE, give it HD, online (I bet will be gimped), and charge $10...for EACH game. Yeah, that's not a fucking scam. That's gonna boost unit sales.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 30, 2013)

Well part of the issue I see is that Nintendo is trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice. Wii's success to casuals was the price point. However, a lot of games were hardware oriented, so casuals went out and bought the equipment to play. It was seen as "sports game equipment" So people soon caught on they were buying a lot of hardware for the system. So once the fad was over, here comes a new Wii higher price tag with a tablet which makes it more of the "sit on your fat butt console". 

Why would casuals upgrade exactly if the Wii is doing what it needs if they're still playing it? They may also be concerned about more costs after realizing it drained their wallet with hardware prior? The new system cost is on par with prior consoles like PS3 so people may even wonder why buy what comes to people's minds as an "expensive upgrade", when they can get a console and get a library of games they haven't played yet in comparison? Or..they can pay the extra money for the new console like a PS4 and know they're not likely to be milked for extra hardware like the Wii

"Fool me once, shame on you"
"Fool me twice, shame on me"


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

Well, goodbye Nintendo's console division, hello misery as I'm forced to move on to PS4.

This never happened until Iwata took position.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well, goodbye Nintendo's console division, hello misery as I'm forced to move on to PS4.
> 
> This never happened until Iwata took position.



Okay whatever. Didn't know you were *forced* into not buying an existing console.


----------



## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Okay whatever. Didn't know you were *forced* into not buying an existing console.



Because Nintendo would stop making consoles if the Wii U failed, so I'd have to take an alternative.

It's not like we'll get a new, "actually worth buying with a bountiful library" Nintendo console by 2014/15.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well, goodbye Nintendo's console division, hello misery as I'm forced to move on to PS4.
> 
> This never happened until Iwata took position.



I got nothing this time. We've been repeating ourselves for 30 million pages. Nothing gets through to you.

Misery? Are you kidding me?


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## DrDingo (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Because Nintendo would stop making consoles if the Wii U failed, so I'd have to take an alternative.
> 
> It's not like we'll get a new, "actually worth buying with a bountiful library" Nintendo console by 2014/15.


Nintendo's handhelds have always been successful. Even in the unlikely event that they decide to scrap home consoles forever, portable devices *will* remain because they *sell*. People are being so melodramatic about all this. Nintendo are nowhere near even a mere suggestion of bankruptcy.


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## Runefox (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Because Nintendo would stop making consoles if the Wii U failed, so I'd have to take an alternative.


Handhelds aside... Er... Just... Because the WiiU isn't doing well now doesn't mean it can't be turned around? I mean, it's at a *serious* disadvantage, but Nintendo managed to make the Wii successful despite its rather dated hardware. The problem is that Nintendo is expecting people to buy into the WiiU the same way they bought into the Wii, and they're expecting people to want the WiiU simply because they had a Wii, without bothering to actually announce to the world, hey, this is what the WiiU is, this is what it does, this is why we deserve your money. They simply haven't made the case for it yet. It's *very* late to do so, but Nintendo *could* do it. It's just that, so far, they seem perfectly content to simply stay the course and *apologize* for it.

What Nintendo needs ASAP:



*A killer app*; SSB, exclusive content on a blockbuster title (MSFT does timed exclusives on CoD for example). 
 

*More variety*; Sony and MSFT both have realistic racing simulators, shooters, adventures, RPG's, pretty much whatever you can think of. The WiiU, despite Nintendo's leaked ad, does not, as of yet. The only reason you could say it does is via Virtual Console / Wii back-compat. 
 

*Another price drop*; I know the tablet controller is probably very expensive to produce, but even at $299 the console is too expensive for what it is. People aren't looking at what comes with it, they're looking at what they can do with it. So far, not much. 
 

*Greater emphasis on games*; Court third party developers *aggressively* for exclusives and exclusive content. No more half-hearted ports like Arkham Origins. Pay close attention to third party devs and flat out disallow this; Invest money in third party development if necessary. Increase the size of internal dev teams to handle more projects simultaneously rather than staggering releases by six months. Consider releasing smaller, lower-cost titles in the interim between larger projects. 
 

*Advertise*; Damage control the console's slow launch. Showcase its strengths, and, assuming the previous points are followed, follow up with a deluge of must-have titles. Make the world aware that the WiiU is a *new* console that *also* plays Wii games, but has a killer library of its own. Make people *excited* about playing a WiiU when faced with the choice of using the competition. No more "other console" status. Grow some balls and take them on head-on. Create a PR blitz. 



> It's not like we'll get a new, "actually worth buying with a bountiful library" Nintendo console by 2014/15.


No. We won't. Because over 3 million people have already bought a WiiU and would be _*pissed*_ if Nintendo replaced it that quickly. Try 2017. Also, _another_ new console would mean a _less_ bountiful library. The library isn't decided on launch. It's up to Nintendo to court the developers over the console's lifespan.


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## Imperial Impact (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Because Nintendo would stop making consoles if the Wii U failed, so I'd have to take an alternative.
> 
> It's not like we'll get a new, "actually worth buying with a bountiful library" Nintendo console by 2014/15.


This guy.


XoPachi said:


> I got nothing this time. We've been repeating ourselves for 30 million pages. Nothing gets through to you.
> 
> Misery? Are you kidding me?


The TR cycle.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm complicated, and so is economics.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> *I'm complicated*, and so is economics.









Don't even...

Moving on. I'm surprised to see how much coverage Scam Waker HD is getting. VG still hasn't got any sales recordings though. Watching Adam Sessler talk about it now.


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## Runefox (Sep 30, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I'm complicated, and so is economics.



What... I don't... What does... How... I...

My ears are actually ringing. I am in physical pain trying to comprehend what you just said. I can't even

I need to lie down.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

Runefox said:


> What... I don't... What does... How... I...
> 
> My ears are actually ringing. I am in physical pain trying to comprehend what you just said. I can't even
> 
> I need to lie down.



Forget trying to understand me, let's just get back to talking about Nintendo and it's current situation.

I agree that Nintendo had a better relationship with third party developers until the N64 days.

Duke Nukem 64 was dumbed down in terms of the adult content from Duke Nukem 3D.

I don't recall any Street Fighter games on the N64 either.

Then with the GameCube it got slightly worse, but picked up a lot with the Wii, and now the relationship is crappy again.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

Nintendo always had this weird thing about adult content on their systems. Then it kinda...stuck. Third parties with adult content didn't WANT to associate with Nintendo after years of disapproval and censorship. At least, that's what I take from it. Correct me if I'm wrong. And yeah, they lost all third party support as SOON as the went 3D. They lost fighters, a fuck ton of platformers, arcade shooters, RPG's, etc.


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

Argh! It's exasperating knowing that's how it went down!

Then again, if Nintendo did accept uncensored third-party games on their hardware, wouldn't they become less unique among the industry?


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## Stratelier (Sep 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> And yeah, they lost all third party support as SOON as the went 3D.


I seriously doubt it was because of publisher censoring.  The PSX had much greater media capacity and it was easier/cheaper to manufacture discs instead of PCB cartridges.


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## Runefox (Sep 30, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Nintendo always had this weird thing about adult content on their systems. Then it kinda...stuck. Third parties with adult content didn't WANT to associate with Nintendo after years of disapproval and censorship. At least, that's what I take from it. Correct me if I'm wrong. And yeah, they lost all third party support as SOON as the went 3D. They lost fighters, a fuck ton of platformers, arcade shooters, RPG's, etc.


Nintendo did cause a lot of grief as a result of their policies regarding adult content, but they did relax that after the creation of the ESRB. With that being said, Yamauchi made an experiment of the N64 in making it intentionally difficult to program for; He reasoned that it would weed out lower quality games, but it actually did quite the opposite and drove many quality third party developers away from the system. One of the major problems with the system was that it was limited to a pathetic 4KB of texture RAM, further limited by lack of cartridge space. Games like SM64 didn't have much of an issue, but games which required heavy use of texturing were crippled. Only the LucasArts game studio managed to get truly good textured graphics out of the system with _Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine_ and _Star Wars: Battle for Naboo_. Another problem that plagued the N64 was the higher cost and low availability of cartridges; Some N64 games were upwards of $80 because of that, while CD's could be stamped very inexpensively - Pennies per disc - all while holding *substantially* more data; 64MB versus 650MB.

It was Yamauchi's intention with the Gamecube to completely reverse those issues by providing a robust, powerful console that was simple to program for and inexpensive to purchase, and timed exclusives like RE4 and Viewtiful Joe among others were the results of that. Unfortunately, the console, like the Wii after it, retained the "toy"-like appearance and appeal and thus drove away more mature audiences, which in turn drove away the more mature developers. When the Wii came out, that, plus its unorthodox control style and lack of hardware power, made sure they didn't return.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

I swear this motherfucker worked for Nintendo...


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## TransformerRobot (Sep 30, 2013)

So maybe the next Nintendo console should have an appearance that's more hardcore looking, and Nintendo should make more mature software?

Never realized the Wii U had a toy-like appearance that was hurting it.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 30, 2013)

They don't have to make it, just entice 3rd parties who do.


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## Runefox (Oct 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Never realized the Wii U had a toy-like appearance that was hurting it.



The WiiU isn't as toy-like as the Wii, but the rounded edges and super friendly design of the UI are, as is the design of the tablet controller, in particular the screen. It looks and feels like a cheap screen, for one. It doesn't have as much of a toy appearance outwardly as the Gamecube did, and nor does the Wii, but it's still there.

The XBox 360 had a bit of a weird look to it as well when it first launched, and so did the PS3. Subsequent releases tried more and more to move towards angular designs that look good among a home theatre setup, and the PS4 and XBOne are both very much made of angles. It's not necessarily that angles are what makes a "mature" console, but it's very similar to how smooth, sleek designs make a car "look" fast or mean, or boxy or rounder designs look more "friendly".

What exactly makes that response isn't something that I'm qualified to define, but consider that the NES was designed by Nintendo to "look" not like a video game console but an "entertainment system", which is part of the name. It looked very much like a VCR. They did this in the Western markets only (the Famicom very much looked like a toy) because the video game crash was still fresh in consumers' minds, and many were wary of another video game console. Today, they seem like they want it both ways - Maintaining the super friendly presentation while trying to make the box nondescript. Even the WiiU's packaging is a very soothing looking white and pastel blue, which honestly reminds me a lot of the boxes that my toys came in when I was in kindergarten.










In fact, I think that's exactly the same shade of blue if you account for the lighting... Every Nintendo home console's box before the Wii has looked far more "tech".


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> So maybe the next Nintendo console should have an appearance that's more hardcore looking, and Nintendo should make more mature software?
> 
> Never realized the Wii U had a toy-like appearance that was hurting it.



What the hell dude? Go buy your WiiU go play and enjoy your games and stop whining to us since the system still exists. Stop worrying about what everyone else buys an go enjoy your system ffs.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 1, 2013)

Honestly, Runefox makes sense and I'm certain that the appeal affected the sales of each console. I just know that I never cared and no one I knew with the system cared. Why TF cares is another question. No one's gonna judge you.


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## TransformerRobot (Oct 1, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Honestly, Runefox makes sense and I'm certain that the appeal affected the sales of each console. I just know that I never cared and no one I knew with the system cared. Why TF cares is another question. No one's gonna judge you.



I already have a Wii U. I just want it to succeed so that I can get more games I want for it. There wouldn't be sense making more games for it if it was an economic failure.

All my life Nintendo systems have been the most used consoles and handhelds in my house. If I can't continue that tradition because of the latest Nintendo console failing, what's the point in me playing anymore console games?

Sure, on the PlayStation family I'll still have Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank and Sly Cooper, but other than that, where's the soul? All else I'd have is boringly realistic racing games, Gore-Tits-Anarchy and generic first-person-shooters.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

"Ohhh woee is meeee woe is meeeee"

I can't stand the lack of objectivity and childish whining over a fucking game console. 
Things change, there's no sane reason to over react. Go play your games and enjoy them. Stop whining.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 1, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I already have a Wii U. I just want it to succeed so that I can get more games I want for it. There wouldn't be sense making more games for it if it was an economic failure.
> 
> All my life Nintendo systems have been the most used consoles and handhelds in my house. If I can't continue that tradition because of the latest Nintendo console failing, what's the point in me playing anymore console games?
> 
> Sure, on the PlayStation family I'll still have Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank and Sly Cooper, but other than that, where's the soul? All else I'd have is boringly realistic racing games, Gore-Tits-Anarchy and generic first-person-shooters.



That was the most ignorant statement I've ever seen in my life. Even the 360 has more than just racers and FPS's let alone PS3. Half Minute Hero, 3D Dot Dot Game Heroes, Lost Odessey, Ni No Kuni, WipEout, ilomilo, Hydro Thunder, Bayonetta, Afterburner Climax, Ninja Gaiden, Blur, Persona, Skullgirls, Dragon Crown, Metal Gear, Sonic Generations, Akai Katana, Raiden IV, Contra Hard Corps Uprising, are all original games on other platforms you just lumped under racim sim and FPS. 

 And besides, most of these "Gore-Tits-Anarchy" (whatever the fuck that means) shooters have more inspiration and creativity on the back of the case alone than recent Nintendo games have in their entire programming. The same homogenized Mario sides rollers. The same Zelda rerelease. The same casual tech demo. Sold at full price. Next to no third party. Call of Duty, Forza, and Gran Turismo are only three games... 

You'll GET Wii U games. 2 years too late, but you'll get them. How many times do we have to repeat ourselves?


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

Sorry for bumping this but I want to apologize for what I originally said about the 2DS. Because I just ordered one from Amazon as I said in the Pookermanns thread.
From what I have seen so far before ordering it the system looks like it's pretty comfortable to hold, which was a problem that I had with the DS lite, the original 3DS and the 3DS XL. It's a 3DS for cheapasses. And I am a cheapass.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 16, 2013)

Just be ready to get nonstop jabs, harassment, and possibly lose friends (as I already have) for the piece of plastic you own. It's a lot like owning an Apple product. You just get looked down upon as a person.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Just be ready to get nonstop jabs, harassment, and possibly lose friends (as I already have) for the piece of plastic you own. It's a lot like owning an Apple product. You just get looked down upon as a person.



I can play PokÃ©mon on it so I don't give a shit :I
3-4 hours of battery life do sound pretty awful though XD


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Just be ready to get nonstop jabs, harassment, and possibly lose friends (as I already have) for the piece of plastic you own. It's a lot like owning an Apple product. You just get looked down upon as a person.



It's actually because a lot of Apple Owners looked down on others when they came out, so I guess the tides turned. 

If you're losing friends over it, they weren't friends to begin with. It wasn't like you were a racist/Chester the Molester/murderer or something.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's actually because a lot of Apple Owners looked down on others when they came out, so I guess the tides turned.



They sure did turn^^ When the iPhone came out it really was amazing compared to other phones.
But today you have to pay 600 bucks for a new iPhone 4S when you can even get the S4 WAY cheaper!


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## Runefox (Oct 16, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Sorry for bumping this but I want to apologize for what I originally said about the 2DS. Because I just ordered one from Amazon as I said in the Pookermanns thread.
> From what I have seen so far before ordering it the system looks like it's pretty comfortable to hold, which was a problem that I had with the DS lite, the original 3DS and the 3DS XL. It's a 3DS for cheapasses. And I am a cheapass.



I have to agree. Like I was saying to Pachi the other day, it looks like the 2DS is surprisingly comfortable despite what initial appearances might show. I had a similar issue with the Gamecube controller until I tried one. I'm still not sure how this will pan out for Nintendo's brand confusion problem, but as far as the 3DS goes, comfort is its biggest weakness.

So far, it seems like it goes like this:

3DS = Prettiest, least comfortable
3DS XL = So-so, somewhat comfortable
2DS = Ugly as sin, most comfortable

I have a standard 3DS. When I played through Ace Combat Assault Horizon Legacy, I was in so much pain.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I have to agree. Like I was saying to Pachi the other day, it looks like the 2DS is surprisingly comfortable despite what initial appearances might show. I had a similar issue with the Gamecube controller until I tried one. I'm still not sure how this will pan out for Nintendo's brand confusion problem, but as far as the 3DS goes, comfort is its biggest weakness.
> 
> So far, it seems like it goes like this:
> 
> ...



The brand confusion is a problem, that's true. At least they bothered putting a nice big sticker on the 2DS box that says that it does infact play all DS and 3DS games. So that's something.

I loved the GC controller. Now I think the Xbox 360 controller is more confortable, mainly because it's a little bigger and I have rather large hands, but the Gamecube pad still is one of my favorite gamepads!

From a financial point of view the 2DS could become a massive hit for Nintendo though! A 3DS that doesn't have an easily breakable hinge and no eye damaging 3D effect? AND it's 40 bucks cheaper than the regular 3DS? Parents are gonna love this thing! Compared to the price of the original 3DS you pretty much get a free game because of the reduced price!

What I think is weird is that the 2DS still has the 3D camera of the 3DS. Maybe it's because of compatability to games that use the camera.
And it comes with the AR cards! I already know that I am gonna have SO much fun with those XD


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## Runefox (Oct 16, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> What I think is weird is that the 2DS still has the 3D camera of the 3DS. Maybe it's because of compatability to games that use the camera.
> And it comes with the AR cards! I already know that I am gonna have SO much fun with those XD



I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure the AR cards rely on the dual cameras for correct positioning / perspective.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

Runefox said:


> I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure the AR cards rely on the dual cameras for correct positioning / perspective.



I kind of doubt that since AR stuff works on devices with just one camera as well. My guess is keeping the second camera is cheaper or took less time than coding a new part for the OS or patching games that need two cameras so that they only use one camera.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 16, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's actually because a lot of Apple Owners looked down on others when they came out, so I guess the tides turned.
> 
> If you're losing friends over it, they weren't friends to begin with. It wasn't like you were a racist/Chester the Molester/murderer or something.



I was speaking from my own experience. I remember getting a 3GS in high school, and had until my freshman year of college. You wouldn't believe the shit people would say to me. I never waved it around like "I GOTS A APPLE" or anything elitist like that. I wasn't passing up a smartphone for $50 that played DoDonPachi. 

Though I see both of your points.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I was speaking from my own experience. I remember getting a 3GS in high school, and had until my freshman year of college. You wouldn't believe the shit people would say to me. I never waved it around like "I GOTS A APPLE" or anything elitist like that. I wasn't passing up a smartphone for $50 that played DoDonPachi.
> 
> Though I see both of your points.



Well, it _is_ a 3GS :V


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## Judge Spear (Oct 16, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Well, it _is_ a 3GS :V



Was. Had it until the 4S came out...and it broke. I had a sad. :c


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## CaptainCool (Oct 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Was. Had it until the 4S came out...and it broke. I had a sad. :c



Remember when they made phones like the Nokia 3310? That was my first phone and it was pretty much indestructible.
Nintendo still builds some pretty solid devices though! The Wiimote is a flatscreen TV destroying monster afterall XD


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## Judge Spear (Oct 16, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> Remember when they made phones like the Nokia 3310? That was my first phone and it was pretty much indestructible.
> Nintendo still builds some pretty solid devices though! The Wiimote is a flatscreen TV destroying monster afterall XD



That's the single thing today I can still praise Nintendo highly for. Their build quality is the best I've seen from any game company. They make compact designs that feel like rocks. I've dropped my Wii down WOODEN stairs before. I only lost the little doors.


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## Stratelier (Oct 16, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> I only lost the little doors.


And only because those are _designed_ to easily detach.

One sign of how durable Nintendo hardware is:  No matter how frustrated I got with the AI in Mario Kart Wii, I never broke the Wii Wheel (though I might've broken the motion sensors on the Remote).


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## Judge Spear (Oct 16, 2013)

The gamecube controllers. The STRESS of competitive Melee, Brawl, and F-Zero. The analog stick on mine isn't even worn.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> The gamecube controllers. The STRESS of competitive Melee, Brawl, and F-Zero. The analog stick on mine isn't even worn.



Exactly. You can give Nintendo flack for a lot of things, but they really do build everything like a friggin' tank.

My 2DS came today. It's alright. It definitely feels a little more toy-ish than other handhelds and it _could_ be a little bigger but it's ok. It's a $130 handheld that plays all new Nintendo games afterall! That's pretty cool.
As for comfort while holding it, this is weird. The left side is perfectly fine. But my right hand gets a little cramped up when using the buttons.
The display resolution could be higher as well. 400x240 seems a little... low-tech.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 17, 2013)

You might just be dominant left. Being dominant right DESTROYED my left hand on my 3DS. That's not to say my right hand didn't suffer either. Just not as much.


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## CaptainCool (Oct 17, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> You might just be dominant left. Being dominant right DESTROYED my left hand on my 3DS. That's not to say my right hand didn't suffer either. Just not as much.



I doubt that. It just takes me time to adjust to this kinda stuff. It already got better after a couple of delicious Pokemans hours.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 17, 2013)

CaptainCool said:


> I doubt that. It just takes me time to adjust to this kinda stuff. It already got better after a couple of delicious Pokemans hours.



You don't even understand how pumped I am for Smash Bros and Sonic now that I have this since both are gonna rely heavily on shoulder button use.


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