# Furst World Problems



## Le Chat Nécro (Jul 22, 2018)

Was talking with a friend today about some writing I'm doing in a furry setting and lamenting that I kept forgetting not to use "humans" as the catch-all for people living in the world. Had to find other things like "earthlings" or "mortals" and constantly go back to check myself. When you have animal people of all different species, you can't just fall back on old habits, I guess.

I figured I wasn't the only person who started out as a non-furry writer/artist and experienced difficulty with the switch, so I wanted to make just a silly vent thread to bitch about _how terribly hard_ it is making furry content instead of "normal" stuff. Haha. 

So, what are some of your "_fur_st world problems"?

I'll stop with the puns now...


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Jul 22, 2018)

As I largely write in settings where humans are otherwise the default, the highest priority is determining whether any anthro species, if they really are separate species, are an offshoot of humanity (engineered or otherwise) or part of a separate genus altogether. For that matter, if there are humans in your setting, since 'human' biologically refers to all species in the genus 'homo', are they limited to being a single-species genus or are they an extended genus of more than one species?


----------



## Marcl (Jul 23, 2018)

I was thinking some time ago about the same issue. I think the world 'human' can be applied in only-furry world for a certain reason. Humanity is an aspect of two things - race and behaviour. While the races are not 'human', I assume that most furry races behave in a 'humane' way. So yeah, 'human' should be OK.

Frankly, now I have to figure out a name for human race in my settings.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Jul 25, 2018)

Marcl said:


> I was thinking some time ago about the same issue. I think the world 'human' can be applied in only-furry world for a certain reason. Humanity is an aspect of two things - race and behaviour. While the races are not 'human', I assume that most furry races behave in a 'humane' way. So yeah, 'human' should be OK.
> 
> Frankly, now I have to figure out a name for human race in my settings.


I suppose "human" can mean whatever you want it to mean. On an alternate earth where anthros evolved instead of people, they could have very well used the word for themselves.

I just worry it would cause confusion for the reader.


----------



## Marcl (Jul 25, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> I suppose "human" can mean whatever you want it to mean. On an alternate earth where anthros evolved instead of people, they could have very well used the word for themselves.
> 
> I just worry it would cause confusion for the reader.


Well, that's a duty of all fantasy writers to go with narration in such a way the reader won't get lost. It requires to incorporate such term in a natural manner to the writing. But that's language specific, e.g. in Polish one of call-out to a groups of people is 'ludziska!' or 'ludzie!', which translates to 'humans!'. That's what gave me that idea.

I guess the safest approach is to try refer to 'humane' or 'inhumane' behaviour, so it would justify why explanaition appears.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Jul 25, 2018)

Marcl said:


> Well, that's a duty of all fantasy writers to go with narration in such a way the reader won't get lost. It requires to incorporate such term in a natural manner to the writing. But that's language specific, e.g. in Polish one of call-out to a groups of people is 'ludziska!' or 'ludzie!', which translates to 'humans!'. That's what gave me that idea.
> 
> I guess the safest approach is to try refer to 'humane' or 'inhumane' behaviour, so it would justify why explanaition appears.


Eh, or you could just make up words like Shakespeare and let people figure it out.


----------



## Skychickens (Jul 29, 2018)

I tend to fall back on “humanoid” as a term a lot. I don’t usually let characters talk about humans in my world as they don’t exist. Sometimes I drabble and do whatever but. As a descriptor, you’re giving the reader a viable description they can understand. 

At least that’s how I sell it to myself. 

I also use people just as a general term for sentient races.


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Jul 31, 2018)

Sometimes I feel awkward using "man" and "woman" in furry fiction because the term could throw off furry readers. I fall back a lot on using "male" and "female" as substitutes. Another sticky wicket I run into describing the species of furry characters. I'll refer to a furry character who is male gorilla anthropomorphic as a "gorilla man", though I'm cutting this out because it sounds really corny. I wouldn't want to character who has a hybrid mix of human and gorilla traits a "gorilla" some furry readers might assume he's just a sentient gorilla like Gorilla Grodd. (I know, I'm being very angsty and anal about this.)

Anybody has thoughts on this?


----------



## Ludwig Linkermann (Aug 4, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> Had to find other things like "earthlings" or "mortals" and constantly go back to check myself.


Because animals are not mortals? I'm not sure I understand your logic.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Aug 4, 2018)

Choosing what bad dragon dildo to buy


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Aug 6, 2018)

Ludwig Linkermann said:


> Because animals are not mortals? I'm not sure I understand your logic.


They are. That's the point. 
I'm used to saying things like "man" or "mankind" or "humans" to describe the general populace, but furs aren't humans. So I have to remind myself to use words like "mortals" instead.

Edited out the last but cause I got the wrong panda


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 21, 2018)

I was just idly thinking this today, but what do you do if you have two characters who are different species and want to have a child? Is the child a hybrid of the two species or do they just adopt a child? I'm asking this in relation to the Don Volpe RP, so feel free to respond @zenmaldita .


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 21, 2018)

I've been a furry for 5 months and---


this is how it works for me...

same species/breed have no problem reproducing
same species/diff breed produces crossbreed
carnivore/carnivore or herbivore/herbivore with relatively close ancestry *may* have fertility issues and will take time to follow their first born with another. (moose/cows, horses/gazelles, foxes/racoons)
carnivore/carnivore or herbivore/herbivore will produce hybrids and *will have* fertility issues. They can only produce up to two children in a lifetime.
hybrids can only reproduce successfully with either a pure blood species of parent 1 or 2 OR another hybrid with the same parentage. Chances are low but they *could* make a new species this way.
completely different species (mammals/birds/reptiles/sharkppl) might get miracle baby hybrids but the chances are low so adopt!
The orphanage aint short thanks to all the irresponsible yiffing
my rules aren't set in stone yet
but to make it clear, Malik's parents are the 2nd bullet point thus he's a cross


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 22, 2018)

zenmaldita said:


> I've been a furry for 5 months and---
> 
> 
> this is how it works for me...
> ...


Nice. This answers my question quite well. Now I can write my scene without problems. I'm sorry if I made you work up additional backstory.


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 22, 2018)

Unicon said:


> Nice. This answers my question quite well. Now I can write my scene without problems. I'm sorry if I made you work up additional backstory.


nah it was already there xD I think I answered this question at another thread too
some people also asked me about cat/fox reproduction specifically on faf and facebook so I've been explaining quite a while

Edelwik may have some sneaky ghost fans lurkin about

concerning your characters in the RP, they might have fertility issues as well and may only have 1 child in a lifetime or unhealthy children.


----------



## Joni (Aug 22, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Choosing what bad dragon dildo to buy
> View attachment 36883


All of them...


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Aug 22, 2018)

Unicon said:


> I was just idly thinking this today, but what do you do if you have two characters who are different species and want to have a child? Is the child a hybrid of the two species or do they just adopt a child? I'm asking this in relation to the Don Volpe RP, so feel free to respond @zenmaldita .


Honestly you can kind of do whatever you want. It's fiction. Go nuts. 

My own personal thing would be closer species have an easier time. Like Edelweiss and Malik being a fox and cat, wouldn't have really weird children, but Edelweiss and Emir (assuming he was alive) would be weird since it would be cat and bison.

I've seen people do it where the offspring is just one of the other and not a mix. Like Edelwik could have a cat son and fox daughter instead of a mix of both.



zenmaldita said:


> Edelwik may have some sneaky ghost fans lurkin about


Hooray!!!!
Though you know my girl is not the motherly type. She's got too much shit to do with her career. 
Besides, all her zombies are like her babies. Haha


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 22, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> I've seen people do it where the offspring is just one of the other and not a mix. Like Edelwik could have a cat son and fox daughter instead of a mix of both.


yeah that's also fair
depending on whose blood is stronger
I also had this rule Im working on that mothers have the biggest influence on genes since the baby is in their body o3o


----------



## Whimsycal (Aug 22, 2018)

zenmaldita said:


> yeah that's also fair
> depending on whose blood is stronger
> I also had this rule Im working on that mothers have the biggest influence on genes since the baby is in their body o3o


That actually makes a huge amount sense when you think of it.

I often have to double check my writings because I write skin instead of fur and is a huge journey back xD


----------



## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Aug 22, 2018)

When a filthy ignorant mammal mis-species you and calls you a dragon, or a frog, or something else entirely. IDIOTS!


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 22, 2018)

on topic: my main prob is using the word hands and nails instead of paws and claws


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 22, 2018)

zenmaldita said:


> on topic: my main prob is using the word hands and nails instead of paws and claws


My character's a gorilla, so I sidestep that problem half the time. There have a few times I had to correct that mistake in the RP, though.


Whimsycal said:


> I often have to double check my writings because I write skin instead of fur and is a huge journey back xD


I do this regularly. XD


----------



## Deathless (Aug 22, 2018)

Not sure if this really counts but I always wonder how long does my fursonas (whom are both canines with fur) take to dry after a shower? Like do they wait to dry off to then put on their clothes or do they use a hair dryer for _everything_? 
Must take long as hell to dry a whole body of fur, even with a hair dryer....

But outside from that, I'd say fursuits being so expencive and just sitting at your computer all day looking at amazing and perfect suits that are like a million dollars to even see in person. ):


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Aug 22, 2018)

Anthro ergonomics in general, from clothing design to vehicles, are all considerations not normally delved into in furry worldbuilding. The general assumption, that anthros are humanoid and thus automatically compatible with human ergonomics, doesn't account for the need to accommodate at least one extra appendage, a different facial structure, or a different leg structure, let alone more extreme divergences like tauric bodies or aquatic adaptations.

Sadly, few furries have both the inclination and interest to even briefly explore this aspect of logistics, which can help explain why the opportunity is often wasted in anthro fiction written by furries.


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 23, 2018)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> Anthro ergonomics in general, from clothing design to vehicles, are all considerations not normally delved into in furry worldbuilding. The general assumption, that anthros are humanoid and thus automatically compatible with human ergonomics, doesn't account for the need to accommodate at least one extra appendage, a different facial structure, or a different leg structure, let alone more extreme divergences like tauric bodies or aquatic adaptations.
> 
> Sadly, few furries have both the inclination and interest to even briefly explore this aspect of logistics, which can help explain why the opportunity is often wasted in anthro fiction written by furries.


In the DVRP, which I'm shamelessly plugging, my character drives a sedan specially modified for his frame since he's a gorilla anthropomorphic. There are certain objects he has difficulty using since he has oversized hands. This makes using fine and small objects not so easy. I'm actually making it a point plot in the RP.


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 23, 2018)

MidnightDragon said:


> Not sure if this really counts but I always wonder how long does my fursonas (whom are both canines with fur) take to dry after a shower? Like do they wait to dry off to then put on their clothes or do they use a hair dryer for _everything_?
> *Must take long as hell to dry a whole body of fur, even with a hair dryer....*
> 
> But outside from that, I'd say fursuits being so expencive and just sitting at your computer all day looking at amazing and perfect suits that are like a million dollars to even see in person. ):


Now I have a logical reason why my rich characters have many servants in 2018. Servants help them with all that fur grooming.
A pet cat or dog can dry in less than an hour drying themselves depending on their size while a hair dryer can speed up the process. A humanoid sized antho however....that'll take a while. 

We could consider the real world aspects when it comes to anthro grooming. Cats have natural oils in their fur to keep their coats well maintained. Some species have outer coats that are easily brushed to clean and inner coats to keep them warm. Things like that...



ChapterAquila92 said:


> Anthro ergonomics in general, from clothing design to vehicles, are all considerations not normally delved into in furry worldbuilding. The general assumption, that anthros are humanoid and thus automatically compatible with human ergonomics, doesn't account for the need to accommodate at least one extra appendage, a different facial structure, or a different leg structure, let alone more extreme divergences like tauric bodies or aquatic adaptations.
> 
> Sadly, few furries have both the inclination and interest to even briefly explore this aspect of logistics, which can help explain why the opportunity is often wasted in anthro fiction written by furries.


Sometimes I think about the possible static an anthro can generate with fabric against their fur =)))
And Unicon did a terrific job writing his big characters being stuck on small chairs, door openings and having modified vehicles

It depends on the writer's thoughtfulness of their characters' bodies compared to surroundings.
My characters are all typically within human bodyshape standards to make it easier for me tho


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 23, 2018)

zenmaldita said:


> A pet cat or dog can dry in less than an hour drying themselves depending on their size while a hair dryer can speed up the process. A humanoid sized antho however....that'll take a while.
> 
> We could consider the real world aspects when it comes to anthro grooming. Cats have natural oils in their fur to keep their coats well maintained. Some species have outer coats that are easily brushed to clean and inner coats to keep them warm. Things like that...


I never considered this. I should do some research into whether this applies to gorillas. It would take awhile for anthros to dry themselves off, now that I think about it.


zenmaldita said:


> Sometimes I think about the possible static an anthro can generate with fabric against their fur =)))


This is another good point I'll probably steal for my subsequent scenes in the RP. >;3


zenmaldita said:


> And Unicon did a terrific job writing his big characters being stuck on small chairs, door openings and having modified vehicles


I bask in the praise.


----------



## Marcl (Aug 23, 2018)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> Anthro ergonomics in general, from clothing design to vehicles, are all considerations not normally delved into in furry worldbuilding. The general assumption, that anthros are humanoid and thus automatically compatible with human ergonomics, doesn't account for the need to accommodate at least one extra appendage, a different facial structure, or a different leg structure, let alone more extreme divergences like tauric bodies or aquatic adaptations.
> 
> Sadly, few furries have both the inclination and interest to even briefly explore this aspect of logistics, which can help explain why the opportunity is often wasted in anthro fiction written by furries.



If you can get materials and information from creation of Zootopia, you could listen about how much in depth they created the world do accommodate for so many anthropomorphic species.



zenmaldita said:


> A pet cat or dog can dry in less than an hour drying themselves depending on their size while a hair dryer can speed up the process. A humanoid sized antho however....that'll take a while.


 
I'm not so sure. Isn't process of drying relevant to how thick the one area of fur is? If the anthro has the same thickness of fur as the original specie, then that same area should dry at the same time and in result size of the character shouldn't matter. But of course they would have much more fur to take care about, so more grooming and stuff.


----------



## CertifiedCervine (Aug 23, 2018)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> Anthro ergonomics in general, from clothing design to vehicles, are all considerations not normally delved into in furry worldbuilding. The general assumption, that anthros are humanoid and thus automatically compatible with human ergonomics, doesn't account for the need to accommodate at least one extra appendage, a different facial structure, or a different leg structure, let alone more extreme divergences like tauric bodies or aquatic adaptations.


Trying to fit on shirts is impossible hard for my species


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 23, 2018)

TacomaTheDeer said:


> Trying to fit on shirts is impossible hard for my species


if you meant a buck deer then
ZIPS and BUTTONS!!! sadly a normal Tshirt is gonna get caught in dem antlers


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Aug 24, 2018)

TacomaTheDeer said:


> Trying to fit on shirts is impossible hard for my species


There's always button-up shirts.


zenmaldita said:


> if you meant a buck deer then
> ZIPS and BUTTONS!!! sadly a normal Tshirt is gonna get caught in dem antlers


And Christmas sweaters.


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 24, 2018)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> There's always button-up shirts.
> 
> And Christmas sweaters.


christmas sweaters are impossible for everyone lol


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 24, 2018)

I was thinking about hospital scene I'm going write for the DVRP and just realized that doctors in that world might have problems with maintaining the expertise to treat every anthropomorphic species in the RP.


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 24, 2018)

Unicon said:


> I was thinking about hospital scene I'm going write for the DVRP and just realized that doctors in that world might have problems with maintaining the expertise to treat every anthropomorphic species in the RP.


make specialists!


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 25, 2018)

zenmaldita said:


> make specialists!


This is true.

I've got another DVRP question. Has world history and pop culture played out along similar lines as real life? Was there a furry War on Terror or a version of the Rolling Stones as cats? I keep wanting to add pop culture references in my scenes, but canon is key! >;V

Sorry for the pestering about backstory. I'm a lore nut.


----------



## zenmaldita (Aug 25, 2018)

Unicon said:


> This is true.
> 
> I've got another DVRP question. Has world history and pop culture played out along similar lines as real life? Was there a furry War on Terror or a version of the Rolling Stones as cats? I keep wanting to add pop culture references in my scenes, but canon is key! >;V
> 
> Sorry for the pestering about backstory. I'm a lore nut.


Yea sure. @Le Chat Nécro already made My Chemical Romance and Shawshank Redemption references


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 26, 2018)

zenmaldita said:


> Yea sure. @Le Chat Nécro already made My Chemical Romance and Shawshank Redemption references


Some hip-hop references are in the offing.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Aug 30, 2018)

@Unicon Well, none of this is really "cannon" for anyone, so do what you want. I'm just too lazy to make up a bunch of alternate universe stuff. So emo cat bands and Morgan Freeman as a hound dog... probably.


----------



## Miles Marsalis (Aug 30, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> @Unicon Well, none of this is really "cannon" for anyone, so do what you want. I'm just too lazy to make up a bunch of alternate universe stuff. So emo cat bands and Morgan Freeman as a hound dog... probably.


There's going to be a avian Wu Tang Clan and feline Celine Dion

Feline Dion anyone? ;^)


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Aug 30, 2018)

Unicon said:


> There's going to be a avian Wu Tang Clan and feline Celine Dion
> 
> Feline Dion anyone? ;^)


booo! get off the stage!


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Aug 30, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> booo! get off the stage!


But she said my heart will go on...


----------

