# Furry Porn VS Normie Porn (18+ Survey)



## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 13, 2018)

I've been curious... I found it harder to quit furry pornography than normie pornography.  And I find that interesting.  So this is less of a "which is better" question and more of a "why people prefer one over the other" question.

Am I the only one who has trouble with this?  Who has trouble with furry porn in the sense that I view it 10x more than normie porn?

Perhaps, I think, it's because of the hypersexualization; the ability to exaggerate the parts that people find attractive has far more potential in furry art than it does in normal porn.  Normal porn is still constrained to semi-real proportionality issues; furry art skips this problem.  Is that why I have such a heavy preference toward furry porn?

Just something to think about.


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## Inkblooded (Feb 13, 2018)

Neither. i dont like real porn or furry porn.
the only thing i have enjoyed is erotic art made of my characters, i usually draw myself.
though if i was forced to choose i would choose furry as no people are being harmed. the real life porn industry is very damaging and a lot of people get hurt... its awful depressing stuff.

I am not at all asexual. more like the opposite.


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## Dongding (Feb 13, 2018)

Normy porn isn't interesting enough. I can't go back.






I don't know if I broke a rule by posting that or not...


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Feb 13, 2018)

Normie is lame


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 13, 2018)

Ew human porn yuck


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## silveredgreen (Feb 13, 2018)

I actually had to think about this. I voted 50/50 only because i will view both with no shits given. But when i truly take the time to think about it i'd probably lean towards human porn, because thinking too hard about furry porn tends to lead to me being a little creeped out. Good thing its hard to think "i'm getting off to animals" when the art is super stylized.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 13, 2018)

silveredgreen said:


> I actually had to think about this. I voted 50/50 only because i will view both with no shits given. But when i truly take the time to think about it i'd probably lean towards human porn, because thinking too hard about furry porn tends to lead to me being a little creeped out. Good thing its hard to think "i'm getting off to animals" when the art is super stylized.



I'm getting off to animal porn.


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## ellaerna (Feb 13, 2018)

I feel like there needs to be more options cause just having two is misleading. 
I picked "normie" since the porn I'm into contains humans and not anthros,  but I don't watch a lot of real person stuff which I think is what was meant by it. Instead I go in for hentai.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 13, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I'm getting off to animal porn.



Uh, just to be clear, not ACTUAL animal porn.


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## PlusThirtyOne (Feb 13, 2018)

Furry. Totally furry.
-But not because i seek it out. it's literally shoved in my face on every furry site i frequent. i'm not even really into browsing it for the "usual reasons". it's just...there!


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## Dongding (Feb 13, 2018)

Yeah uh, me too.


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## stimpy (Feb 13, 2018)

theirs nothing like a good nut (to some good ass yiff)


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## Uluri (Feb 13, 2018)

_The following is Entirely about Drawn Media._
Out of nsfw content I enjoy, I like "human", "Kemono", and "Feral" type nsfw art. I am not a fan of the Humanized Anthro nsfw. 
I can say I actively browse Human and Feral the most with human being #1 by a tiny bit. (Specifying that because @PlusThirtyOne 
mention how Furry porn is indeed lying all over the place like an unkept bedroom's clothing pile.) My preference for human
is that I enjoy the thought of the feeling of their skin. Not only that, but if I wanted to view something with a human body, I'd
rather be viewing a human body over a retextured human body. :I (Why I don't like the Human-type Anthros. It's the style
that I don't think many pull off too well.)

On feral nsfw, I think it's just because I like small and cute things. Same with the kemono-style of drawing, I really like
small and cute. Especially cute. I'm more into cute than "Handsome" or "Sexy" I think. And being able to hold onto them
comfortably. 
----
Interesting Topic @ResolutionBlaze 
----


ellaerna said:


> I feel like there needs to be more options cause just having two is misleading.


^ I Agree. "Normie" is rather vague or misleading as I view Hentai rather than RL human porn as well.


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## defunct (Feb 13, 2018)

Normie porn is often incredibly limited in variety. The fact that furry porn is art rather than acting makes it inherently more able to depict certain situations that would be hard to re-enact on camera. This applies especially to particular kinks which may not be practical or even possible to bother making live-action porn of. 

Another factor is that while filmed porn is limited in its... attractiveness by the actors looks and abilities, furry porn is not. The characters can be drawn to be as attractive, cute, fit, et cetera and act in any way the  artist and/or commissioner likes, depending on preference, leading to a huuuge variety of body types and personalities that would likely never be seen in traditional porn featuring another generic high-school dropout and zero personality.

Perhaps the biggest factor is the strong connection between supply and demand in furry porn. While regular porn is filmed, created, and uploaded on demand by directors, furry porn is often created by artists directly under the instruction of the consumers. Because real porn is (for the most part) paid for by advertisers and not the people watching it themselves, customers are detached. In the furry community, a very strong and direct attachment exists between consumers and producers, resulting in a relatively equalized supply/demand relationship where only as much porn is created as desired, strictly as it is desired


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 13, 2018)

Nastala said:


> Normie porn is often incredibly limited in variety. The fact that furry porn is art rather than acting makes it inherently more able to depict certain situations that would be hard to re-enact on camera. This applies especially to particular kinks which may not be practical or even possible to bother making live-action porn of.
> 
> Another factor is that while filmed porn is limited in its... attractiveness by the actors looks and abilities, furry porn is not. The characters can be drawn to be as attractive, cute, fit, et cetera and act in any way the  artist and/or commissioner likes, depending on preference, leading to a huuuge variety of body types and personalities that would likely never be seen in traditional porn featuring another generic high-school dropout and zero personality.
> 
> Perhaps the biggest factor is the strong connection between supply and demand in furry porn. While regular porn is filmed, created, and uploaded on demand by directors, furry porn is often created by artists directly under the instruction of the consumers. Because real porn is (for the most part) paid for by advertisers and not the people watching it themselves, customers are detached. In the furry community, a very strong and direct attachment exists between consumers and producers, resulting in a relatively equalized supply/demand relationship where only as much porn is created as desired, strictly as it is desired



....Apparently there's a massive amount of demand, by that metric. 

I think I also appreciate the fact that furry porn, realistically, doesn't harm anyone. There's a lot of evidence that mass-produced porn is quite demeaning to the people involved, and can often be psychologically damaging and taxing. Furry porn, on the other hand, is drawn, so there's no one being harmed, although some artists might feel pressured into drawing yiff to make more money. Aside from having to shudder through it, it's not like their body is being plastered on thousands of horny people's screens for their dirty pleasures.


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## defunct (Feb 13, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> ....Apparently there's a massive amount of demand, by that metric. .


I do not have a single doubt about that


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## Filter (Feb 14, 2018)

Furry porn. Normie porn is bad (or at least arguably not good) for everyone involved. Furry porn, on the other hand, is art. Although it isn't realistic either, the stylization is meant to evoke something more. And because it's fictional, I don't have to worry if the participants are really into it.

If normie porn is dehumanizing, furry porn is rehumanizing. Bear with me for a moment. Let me explain. Normie porn reduces people to bodies doing sex acts. Furry characters, on the other hand, are anthropomorphized. The sex takes place between *characters*. Among other things, it can be sweet or meaningful. I don't think I've ever normie porn that I would consider sweet or meaningful. The emotions involved in furry porn can at times be, perhaps ironically, more like relationship between real people. I'm not saying all of it, but it can be done and done well in furry porn.

It's also a safe way to explore fetishes and fantasies without potentially harming one's self, or anybody else for that matter.

Lastly, the kind of furry porn I like is simply fun to look at. I don't have to be aroused or in a particular mood to appreciate it. Normie porn is just made for getting off, and doesn't have much to offer (besides perhaps guilt, feeling bad for the performers etc.)

Other than finding sexual themes distasteful in mixed company, the only real shame I really feel about it is that non-furries wouldn't understand. That they'd consider animalistic faces and tails degrading and dirty, or as Rule 34 of an art form they liked as kids. I totally get why some people hate rule 34. I'm not a fan of it either. They might also miss that I care about the characters, and misjudge my actual love life. Compared to most normies, I'm a prude. I just have an active imagination and fantasy life. Furries are stylishly cute and colorful people to me, and I like them regardless of whether there's anything sexual going on. Although I do like some of the porn, and like it much more than human porn, my appreciation of clean furry art is innocent, and I've never been interested in bestiality. I wouldn't want others to mistake it for a fetish for animals or animal characters in general. It isn't.



Disclaimer: This is my personal take on it. I'm weird, and I don't claim to speak for other furs.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Feb 14, 2018)

Why not both?


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## Massan Otter (Feb 14, 2018)

I find I'm not heavily into either.  On furry sites I'm finding that after an initial bout of curiosity where I looked around to see what was out there, I'm going back to those NSFW sections less and less.  The things that do make me smile tend to be at the cuddle porn end, or playful kink without penetrative stuff going on. 
For "normal" porn I've ended up with a similar approach.  I find most professional, mainstream porn offputting - much of it feels exploitative, and any enthusiasm displayed seems stagey and false.  There is some material I enjoy, but it tends to be amateur or self-produced, it relates to a couple of specific kinks of mine and it often doesn't involve penetration so might be more towards erotica than porn. 
I'd say that puts me at 50/50, but only quite lightly into specific varieties of either.  I should add that I'm not assigning right or wrong to other peoples tastes, this is just what I find enjoyable.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm not terribly attracted to the naked human body, visually, (like, okay, there's some stunning artsy photography of naked people out there, but naked people I don't know hold no sexual interest to me) and in my life I've found a grand total of one piece of RL porn I enjoyed. I'm not terribly visually attracted to naked people in person, either. So RL human porn for me is... meh. At most it might have story value. (_La Bête_ is a really interesting film.)

Not that I generally browse porn for tittilation in general; if I want that, I'd sooner go for written erotica, anyway. But for furry/human, I have no real preference in drawn or written porn. I've seen marvellous art in either category, and while I'm not generally particularly aroused by it, as such, I can find either hot (I can't really explain it, but "hot" and "arousing" are distinct for me.).



Filter said:


> Furry porn. Normie porn is bad (or at least arguably not good) for everyone involved.





BahgDaddy said:


> I think I also appreciate the fact that furry porn, realistically, doesn't harm anyone. There's a lot of evidence that mass-produced porn is quite demeaning to the people involved, and can often be psychologically damaging and taxing.





Inkblooded said:


> though if i was forced to choose i would choose furry as no people are being harmed. the real life porn industry is very damaging and a lot of people get hurt... its awful depressing stuff.


Just to note, while I'm sure there are people who are in the porn industry for the wrong reasons, or end up being harmed within it, calling the porn industry damaging as a whole is mostly the domain of anti-sexwork feminists and moralists.  In general, sex work (anything from prostitution to professional doms to camgirling to pornography) tends to be portrayed as more exploitative by people who do not work in the field than by those that do. That's not to say you need to consume porn to support the people who chose that career if you weren't already interested, any more than you need to buy brussel sprouts if you hate them to support brussel sprout farmers. Just letting you know you're speaking from a position that doesn't mirror the experiences of most people who actually do the work. See for instance Twitter hashtag #SexWorkIsWork (may contain NSFW) if you want to learn more.

Goodness knows if prostitution were not defacto illegal here, I could probably have done it, earned better than sinking the same time into a wage drudgery job, and suffered less psychological damage than I have from spending five years herding horny furries for free. (No, seriously, there's research suggesting that online moderation results in trauma for the moderators. Not exclusive to furries, but a reminder that being a dick on the Internet _does_ hurt people.)


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 14, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> I'm not terribly attracted to the naked human body, visually, (like, okay, there's some stunning artsy photography of naked people out there, but naked people I don't know hold no sexual interest to me) and in my life I've found a grand total of one piece of RL porn I enjoyed. I'm not terribly visually attracted to naked people in person, either. So RL human porn for me is... meh. At most it might have story value. (_La Bête_ is a really interesting film.)
> 
> Not that I generally browse porn for tittilation in general; if I want that, I'd sooner go for written erotica, anyway. But for furry/human, I have no real preference in drawn or written porn. I've seen marvellous art in either category, and while I'm not generally particularly aroused by it, as such, I can find either hot (I can't really explain it, but "hot" and "arousing" are distinct for me.).
> 
> ...



If they want to be a "sex worker," that's fine, but when it comes to that I'm actually extremely conservative and don't really view it in a positive light. If I view normal porn it usually makes me feel guilty and dirty, especially since I don't know if the people are actually enjoying it or not. (In fact acticles I've read suggest they are ambivalent, which isn't great either.) Or, they have done it for the wrong reasons, such as money. Idk, it's just not something I respect a whole lot. 

Also, your position was volunteer, you could have left at any time.


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## dragon-in-sight (Feb 14, 2018)

To me it's furry only. Watching humans mate doesn't turn me on. It's not disgusting for me to watch. It just doesn't trigger any reaction form me. And since I had to take seven semesters of nude painting, I have seen enough naked bodyies for this life.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 14, 2018)

dragon-in-sight said:


> To me it's furry only. Watching humans mate doesn't turn me on. It's not disgusting for me to watch. It just doesn't trigger any reaction form me. And since I had to take seven semesters of nude painting, I have seen enough naked bodyies for this life.



7 semesters? Damn. Where can I sign up?


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 14, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> If they want to be a "sex worker," that's fine, but when it comes to that I'm actually extremely conservative and don't really view it in a positive light. If I view normal porn it usually makes me feel guilty and dirty, especially since I don't know if the people are actually enjoying it or not. (In fact acticles I've read suggest they are ambivalent, which isn't great either.)


Not consuming porn because you don't feel okay with it is fine. That's not the issue. The point is more that writing it off as inherently demeaning (as opposed to "I find it demeaning") contributes to stigma against, and in general is unfair to, the many men and women who willingly chose to work in that field. I think professional sports are stupid, but there's obviously a market and people willing to cater to it, so they can go do them and I can flip the channel. 



BahgDaddy said:


> Or, they have done it for the wrong reasons, such as money.


Money is a perfectly good reason to go into a career. In fact, it seems to be a contributing factor to most people's career choices.



BahgDaddy said:


> Also, your position was volunteer, you could have left at any time.


I fail to see how this is at all relevant - being paid would not have made the abuse I received any less psychologically damaging, a porn actor/actress can quit at any time, and I obviously _did_ leave. There are also plenty of people in other online communities who do work for a paycheck. The point I was making was that most jobs can result in psychological damage. Customer service reps often receive abuse from dissatisfied customers. Does that make it wrong for companies to have CS lines? 



BahgDaddy said:


> 7 semesters? Damn. Where can I sign up?


You _do_ realize that most nude models do it for the money, right? I seem to recall you saying something about that being the wrong reason to get naked in front of an audience.

Yes, I am snarky. I get that way when people try to shift the blame for being treated badly while trying to help out the free service those people are happy to use onto me.


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## Inkblooded (Feb 14, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Just to note, while I'm sure there are people who are in the porn industry for the wrong reasons, or end up being harmed within it, calling the porn industry damaging as a whole is mostly the domain of anti-sexwork feminists and moralists.  In general, sex work (anything from prostitution to professional doms to camgirling to pornography) tends to be portrayed as more exploitative by people who do not work in the field than by those that do. That's not to say you need to consume porn to support the people who chose that career if you weren't already interested, any more than you need to buy brussel sprouts if you hate them to support brussel sprout farmers. Just letting you know you're speaking from a position that doesn't mirror the experiences of most people who actually do the work. See for instance Twitter hashtag #SexWorkIsWork (may contain NSFW) if you want to learn more.
> 
> Goodness knows if prostitution were not defacto illegal here, I could probably have done it, earned better than sinking the same time into a wage drudgery job, and suffered less psychological damage than I have from spending five years herding horny furries for free. (No, seriously, there's research suggesting that online moderation results in trauma for the moderators. Not exclusive to furries, but a reminder that being a dick on the Internet _does_ hurt people.)



you really have no idea what you're talking about. Firstly I am male so this isnt really my issue, I care about it a lot but i feel a bit guilty talking about it because well, men dont suffer from it, at least not as much as women do.

first of all... please dont talk to me like im an idiot. I know exactly what youre talking about. I am very familiar with the term "sex work." and people like me, who are against the porn industry, are NOT anti prostitute or "sex worker,"  dont hate people doing it, it is the opposite. there is nothing "anti sex worker" about wanting to abolish an industry built on women's suffering and sexual slavery.

"sex work" jobs arent the only jobs where the "workers" are suffering to survive but it is one of the worst "jobs" in the world. no other job comes with an almost guaranteed exposure to STDs (many of which are incurable) psychological damage and substance abuse.

also there is a big difference between doing porn and being a "camgirl." im no expert, but most "camgirls" work from home, they are self employed, not being controlled by an agency or someone else, they decide exactly what goes on camera and they have full control over what they choose to put online, and control over their payment... this is not true for porn stars or prostitutes. there are a ton of stories from ex prostitutes, porn stars and strippers online, i think everyone who is "pro sex work" should read what they have to say, and listen to their stories, because i dont see how after hearing all that you can still see no problem with this cruel system.

and while yes, I see it is possible to suffer psychological issues from moderating (but probably only from extreme trolling, such as people posting highly shocking videos of gore, torture and death. probably not from your average furry argument.) It wont give you as much trauma and psychological damage as being 1. repeatedly and violently raped and 2. having videos of your sexual assault posted online forever without your control.

also if you are a psychologically unstable or sensitive person you shouldnt really be volunteering to be a moderator. I wouldnt do it because i am sensitive. for the same reason that sensitive people should probably not become emergency phone operators or paramedics. some jobs need certain states of mental stability. and if mere words on the internet get to you then moderating a forum is probably not a good idea.

porn and other "sex work" is not to be taken lightly, and the fact that you say you could do it as if it were a "normal" job just speaks volumes that youre lucky enough to not have done it. Most women in porn or prostitution (about 80-90%) want to leave, but they cant. i guarantee that without poverty these "jobs" would be very uncommon. for the same reason that children working in factories in other parts of the world making cheap clothing wouldnt choose to do it if they didn't have to.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 14, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Not consuming porn because you don't feel okay with it is fine. That's not the issue. The point is more that writing it off as inherently demeaning (as opposed to "I find it demeaning") contributes to stigma against, and in general is unfair to, the many men and women who willingly chose to work in that field. I think professional sports are stupid, but there's obviously a market and people willing to cater to it, so they can go do them and I can flip the channel.
> 
> 
> Money is a perfectly good reason to go into a career. In fact, it seems to be a contributing factor to most people's career choices.
> ...



I fail to see how someone working at, say, a strip club is actually content with their job and finds it fulfilling. They're being paid to act sexy, and it's almost always female strippers and almost always a male audience. As a feminist I find that insulting - in what world does that reduce the sexual objectification of women? And yes, I'm sure there's a few gay stripper clubs out there, that's the exception and not the norm probably, and honestly I'm going to throw them into the same category. 

My views come from the fact that I don't view sex as a casual thing, although it can be, but as part of relationships. People who just go around sleeping with random people - sorry, that's extremely shallow. But, it's often a shallow society, so who cares! I think most people want a fulfilling relationship though, and not just sex.

Overall, sex for money... nope, that can stay over in Nevada, thank you very much, heh.


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## dragon-in-sight (Feb 14, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> 7 semesters? Damn. Where can I sign up?



It's not so fancy as it sound belive me.


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## SuperNaturalHorse (Feb 14, 2018)

Anybody who would attend a furry strip tease burlesque show???


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 14, 2018)

Inkblooded said:


> first of all... please dont talk to me like im an idiot.


Right back at you. This is exactly why you alienate people, Ink. Someone corrects you, or disagrees with you, and you get incredibly defensive, hostile, and abrasive. I was not talking to you as though you were an idiot; at most I was avoiding making assumptions about your degree of prior knowledge. That's being polite and avoiding misunderstandings. You on the other hand are coming at me at full speed even as you call the issue not yours, and insulting my knowledge about the matter because it doesn't line up with yours.



Inkblooded said:


> also there is a big difference between doing porn and being a "camgirl." im no expert, but most "camgirls" work from home, they are self employed, not being controlled by an agency or someone else, they decide exactly what goes on camera and they have full control over what they choose to put online, and control over their payment... this is not true for porn stars or prostitutes. there are a ton of stories from ex prostitutes, porn stars and strippers online, i think everyone who is "pro sex work" should read what they have to say, and listen to their stories, because i dont see how after hearing all that you can still see no problem with this cruel system.


Just... go read the hashtag I linked. Like... Seriously. Go read the hashtag. See those red umbrellas in a lot of the photos? Those do not stand for "we don't care about sex workers". I did not say there are no people who suffer harm in the sex work industry, but that it is not this inherent evil that you make it out to be, and I stand by that. I actually listen to sex workers regularly, and support them being able to choose a career that works for them. Most people who are pro sex work _are_ sex workers. I wouldn't hold these opinions if I didn't listen to them.



Inkblooded said:


> porn and other "sex work" is not to be taken lightly, and the fact that you say you could do it as if it were a "normal" job just speaks volumes that youre lucky enough to not have done it.


I did not say that. I said I could have done it, yes. I have no particular issue with the thought of having sex for money, outside of legality. If I had done so, it realistically would have paid better per unit of time than a low-level job such as working a cash register. This is supported by all accounts I have read and heard from sex workers, including ones who were in vulnerable or exploitative situations for all or part of their time as sex workers. (Yes, I have read/heard those, too.) It also would likely have left fewer psychological issues in its wake than working for FA has. I base this assessment of my own ability to handle sex with strangers on experience (TW: accounts of RL dubcon situations). "As if it were a 'normal' job" is your own interpretation, and I have no illusions that there's much in common between ringing up groceries and having sex with strangers.



BahgDaddy said:


> I fail to see how someone working at, say, a strip club is actually content with their job and finds it fulfilling.


"I am so hot that people are literally throwing money at me," sounds like it could be pretty fulfilling to people who are not bothered by public nudity. I'm going by the words of actual strippers rather than speculation, though. Again, the hashtag I linked contains a lot of potentially enlightening content.



BahgDaddy said:


> My views come from the fact that I don't view sex as a casual thing, although it can be, but as part of relationships. People who just go around sleeping with random people - sorry, that's extremely shallow. But, it's often a shallow society, so who cares! I think most people want a fulfilling relationship though, and not just sex.


Both is good, too. I like both. Being able to separate sex from love isn't shallow in my book, but to each their own. The point is that you are welcome to have your views, and let those views guide you in what you choose to do and what services you choose to purchase. Dismissing someone else's choices as demeaning, exploitative, etc. just because you don't understand it or wouldn't make the same choice is disrespectful, and when done in large scale threatens the livelihood of those people.


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## Dongding (Feb 14, 2018)

:3


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 14, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Right back at you. This is exactly why you alienate people, Ink. Someone corrects you, or disagrees with you, and you get incredibly defensive, hostile, and abrasive. I was not talking to you as though you were an idiot; at most I was avoiding making assumptions about your degree of prior knowledge. That's being polite and avoiding misunderstandings. You on the other hand are coming at me at full speed even as you call the issue not yours, and insulting my knowledge about the matter because it doesn't line up with yours.
> 
> 
> Just... go read the hashtag I linked. Like... Seriously. Go read the hashtag. See those red umbrellas in a lot of the photos? Those do not stand for "we don't care about sex workers". I did not say there are no people who suffer harm in the sex work industry, but that it is not this inherent evil that you make it out to be, and I stand by that. I actually listen to sex workers regularly, and support them being able to choose a career that works for them. Most people who are pro sex work _are_ sex workers. I wouldn't hold these opinions if I didn't listen to them.
> ...



Yes, they're being paid for nothing but their body, right? As soon as they're remotely less attractive, boom, there goes their job! And with it, usually their self esteem and sense of self-worth, etc etc. I have every right to critisize the sex "industry" and will continue to do so. It is not the harmless "just business" thing that people like to make it out to be. So where you've heard stories of people who just like it, I'm over hearing hearing stories of the illegal prostitute  who is doing because she cant pay her bills and drinks herself silly because it's stressing her out so much, and also her 13 year old daughter is being pimped out occasionally by her sleeze bucket pimp.

But I'm sure that doesn't matter. It's just money.


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## Dongding (Feb 14, 2018)

I feel like once you're not suitable for a job due to age and you're found wanting in a physical sense when that inevitability surely comes as with any job, it's sort of your fault regardless of that line of work.


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## RakshaTheCat (Feb 14, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I'm over hearing hearing stories of the illegal prostitute  who is doing because she cant pay her bills and drinks herself silly because it's stressing her out so much, and also her 13 year old daughter is being pimped out occasionally by her sleeze bucket pimp.


I feel you criticize wrong thing there. Looks like for her, problem isn't sex industry, problem is that she is forced to do something like that to survive.


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## Dongding (Feb 14, 2018)

That's a good point too.

I also left out the last bit at the end of my last post. I meant to say:

"it's sort of your fault regardless of that line of work if you haven't adequately prepared for that inevitability."

Now I won't be torn apart by wolf
:3


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## backpawscratcher (Feb 14, 2018)

There’s such a thing as “Normie” porn?  

Not that I have the urges I once did in this department but I don’t think any of the stuff I ever went for would be described as “Normie”.  Not what I’m after from this fandom though.  This to me is about enjoying myself in other ways.

Saying that, there was that one vid I stumbled upon a couple of years ago.....


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## Inkblooded (Feb 14, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Right back at you. This is exactly why you alienate people, Ink. Someone corrects you, or disagrees with you, and you get incredibly defensive, hostile, and abrasive. I was not talking to you as though you were an idiot; at most I was avoiding making assumptions about your degree of prior knowledge. That's being polite and avoiding misunderstandings. You on the other hand are coming at me at full speed even as you call the issue not yours, and insulting my knowledge about the matter because it doesn't line up with yours.
> 
> 
> Just... go read the hashtag I linked. Like... Seriously. Go read the hashtag. See those red umbrellas in a lot of the photos? Those do not stand for "we don't care about sex workers". I did not say there are no people who suffer harm in the sex work industry, but that it is not this inherent evil that you make it out to be, and I stand by that. I actually listen to sex workers regularly, and support them being able to choose a career that works for them. Most people who are pro sex work _are_ sex workers. I wouldn't hold these opinions if I didn't listen to them.
> ...



I am not being hostile.
you are assuming that's my tone and intention, and choosing to see it that way, but it's not.

And I'm not saying that everything you say is wrong, I am not putting you or anyone else down, I am just pointing out that actively supporting the sex industry harms people.

you seem to look at sex work with very rose tinted glasses. You assume that everyone in porn, prostitution, stripping, camgirling, or anything else chose to do it, and enjoys doing it, but that's simply not true.

For every porn star who's comfortable with her choice, there are countless more who's lives are ruined and filled with regret, and many more who didn't truly choose.
for every financially stable and confident prostitute, there are many underage girls forced and sold into sex trafficking. 
for every happy camgirl there are many more women who are threatened by "revenge porn".

the cruel truth is that the happy ones are in the minority.  besides, its not about whether they're happy or not. buying "sex work" is something that only messed up, cruel men do. it wouldn"t exist in a society where women aren't treated as inferior and objects to be used by men.

Anti sex work is not anti sex worker... and as you said a lot of pro sex work are sex workers, a lot of anti sex work people are also sex workers.

criminalize buying sex, not selling it.
punish the pimps, johns, the sleazebags who create the demand.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 14, 2018)

RakshaTheCat said:


> I feel you criticize wrong thing there. Looks like for her, problem isn't sex industry, problem is that she is forced to do something like that to survive.



It's a more common problem for the porn industry than one might think, and I think the nature of it invites problems like I just mentioned.


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## Azrion/Zhalo (Feb 14, 2018)

Yay, porno arguments


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## Troj (Feb 14, 2018)

With very few exceptions, normie porn tends to bore me, gross me out, or just make me laugh.

Normie erotica fares somewhat better with me, as long as it's well-written.

I'd say that the problem with normie porn is that it doesn't leave enough room for my own imagination, and is so "in-your-face" as to be alienating and overwhelming.


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## Mighty_Mohawk_Monster (Feb 15, 2018)

ordinary porn vs. creative porn :3


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## Katergaris (Feb 15, 2018)

Well, when you think about it, plenty of furries (or scaleys!) see the animal as their true selves, or rather a better presentation of their qualities. Perhaps they share a certain bond.
With that said, it'd make sense that many of those with such an attachment to a type would seek pornographic material they can better relate with. It's like a sexual kink, but on a more relateable level, no? It's like how statistically people prefer that one of the actors (generally the one of your sex, that you can relate to, though that's strictly hetero) is of their own race.
Of course this doesn't apply to everyone. There'll always be those who have a disdain for such art, and others who can't get off without it, and their reasons can vary.


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## Umberle (Feb 16, 2018)

I picked the 50/50 option mostly because ... I don't find a lot of well-drawn and well-animated furry porn that actually gets me going, per se, when I'm looking for porn. I guess it just doesn't have that visual kick, and I kinda find the 3D videos a little creepy in a way. So for the time being, I just deal with normie porn and look forward to those rare gems that just rock my flicktionary~

I used to work as a phone sex operator, and that was fun. {PSA: Don't ask unless you _really_ wanna know, mmkay?} If there was a bigger network of furry phone sex companies, that might be interesting. I dunno if there is; I literally just thought that, so haven't checked it out.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

Umberle said:


> I picked the 50/50 option mostly because ... I don't find a lot of well-drawn and well-animated furry porn that actually gets me going, per se, when I'm looking for porn. I guess it just doesn't have that visual kick, and I kinda find the 3D videos a little creepy in a way. So for the time being, I just deal with normie porn and look forward to those rare gems that just rock my flicktionary~
> 
> I used to work as a phone sex operator, and that was fun. {PSA: Don't ask unless you _really_ wanna know, mmkay?} If there was a bigger network of furry phone sex companies, that might be interesting. I dunno if there is; I literally just thought that, so haven't checked it out.



I wants to know, you send PM? :3

Also, is that a new business idea? I love new business ideas.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Not consuming porn because you don't feel okay with it is fine. That's not the issue. The point is more that writing it off as inherently demeaning (as opposed to "I find it demeaning") contributes to stigma against, and in general is unfair to, the many men and women who willingly chose to work in that field. I think professional sports are stupid, but there's obviously a market and people willing to cater to it, so they can go do them and I can flip the channel.
> 
> 
> Money is a perfectly good reason to go into a career. In fact, it seems to be a contributing factor to most people's career choices.



Two things:  Professional Sports hurt those playing the sport.  Professional Pornography or even porn in general harms the viewer more than the porn star on average cases.  The research on that is clear: effects on pornography on young men in particular is overwhelmingly negative as it harms their ability for any sort of sexual advancement due to the ease of visual stimulation, especially since the introduction of the Internet.  In more mainstream porn we have situations of "super stimuli" being blasted at young men and unlocking powerful primordial motivations, which is basically what I stated in the beginning of this thread:  Imagine there's a biological stimulus that has an effect on an individual.  Magnifying that stimulus is "super stimuli" simply put.  And the average mainstream porn magnifies and exaggerates the parts that are stimulating to men.  That also explains Furry porn as well, since that porn can magnify that tenfold comparatively, with stylization.  The magnification and the casual access to it makes porn a sexual nightmare for men.  It magnifies the parts that men find attractive to hook them in more, it makes its access easy and accessible all the time, and it acts as an easy out.  What men should be doing is going out and finding relationships to develop... and if they don't, perhaps that an indication that something about themselves should be altered, but if you can just access the sexual motivation with the click of a button, nothing needs to change and you end up in a shlog.  It's difficult to find solid research due to a lack of a control group, because there are too few of cases of men never having had a porn addition.  Very rare cases.  But I think those who have participated in things like NoFap makes it abundantly clear that porn can have a negative effect on the social aspect of sex.

Secondly, I don't think money is a good reason to go into a career.  I think it depends on the person and situation.  If you're desperate, perhaps.  But career choices are driven more by temperament and personality rather than money.  That's why so many people are dropping out of law firms, women in particular.  Because nobody really wants to work 80 hours a week, 500 dollars an hour, just so they can work non stop all the time.  It takes a special kind of person to go through with something like that.  So I don't think money is a factor for most people's career choices.  I think it can be an aspect for some people's choices, but certainly not for most the data on that is clear.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Two things:  Professional Sports hurt those playing the sport.  Professional Pornography or even porn in general harms the viewer more than the porn star on average cases.  The research on that is clear: effects on pornography on young men in particular is overwhelmingly negative as it harms their ability for any sort of sexual advancement due to the ease of visual stimulation, especially since the introduction of the Internet.  In more mainstream porn we have situations of "super stimuli" being blasted at young men and unlocking powerful primordial motivations, which is basically what I stated in the beginning of this thread:  Imagine there's a biological stimulus that has an effect on an individual.  Magnifying that stimulus is "super stimuli" simply put.  And the average mainstream porn magnifies and exaggerates the parts that are stimulating to men.  That also explains Furry porn as well, since that porn can magnify that tenfold comparatively, with stylization.  The magnification and the casual access to it makes porn a sexual nightmare for men.  It magnifies the parts that men find attractive to hook them in more, it makes its access easy and accessible all the time, and it acts as an easy out.  What men should be doing is going out and finding relationships to develop... and if they don't, perhaps that an indication that something about themselves should be altered, but if you can just access the sexual motivation with the click of a button, nothing needs to change and you end up in a shlog.  It's difficult to find solid research due to a lack of a control group, because there are too few of cases of men never having had a porn addition.  Very rare cases.  But I think those who have participated in things like NoFap makes it abundantly clear that porn can have a negative effect on the social aspect of sex.
> 
> Secondly, I don't think money is a good reason to go into a career.  I think it depends on the person and situation.  If you're desperate, perhaps.  But career choices are driven more by temperament and personality rather than money.  That's why so many people are dropping out of law firms, women in particular.  Because nobody really wants to work 80 hours a week, 500 dollars an hour, just so they can work non stop all the time.  It takes a special kind of person to go through with something like that.  So I don't think money is a factor for most people's career choices.  I think it can be an aspect for some people's choices, but certainly not for most the data on that is clear.



I agree and disagree. I don't think all porn is entirely damaging to men. I've been able to regulate my consumption quite nicely, mostly because A. i yawn at most of it B. I know it's being acted and C. I crave relationships over just sex. 

Also furry yiff has been increasingly turning me off from regular porn, because I know it's not real - which actually allows it to work better! I don't have to worry about the psychological status of the actors.

And yeah, totally agree with the second paragraph. I'm not trying to get a degree in Environmental Science because I think it will pay nicely, I'm doing it because I want to do it. Otherwise I'd just become a lawyer or doctor or something and make oodles of cash, haha. Uh, if someone paid for my education anyways...


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## Umberle (Feb 16, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I wants to know, you send PM? :3
> 
> Also, is that a new business idea? I love new business ideas.


Hey, it could be! Lawd knows I'd know what to do! Too bad I don't have start-up!


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I agree and disagree. I don't think all porn is entirely damaging to men. I've been able to regulate my consumption quite nicely, mostly because A. i yawn at most of it B. I know it's being acted and C. I crave relationships over just sex.
> 
> Also furry yiff has been increasingly turning me off from regular porn, because I know it's not real - which actually allows it to work better! I don't have to worry about the psychological status of the actors.
> 
> And yeah, totally agree with the second paragraph. I'm not trying to get a degree in Environmental Science because I think it will pay nicely, I'm doing it because I want to do it. Otherwise I'd just become a lawyer or doctor or something and make oodles of cash, haha. Uh, if someone paid for my education anyways...



Perhaps that's true but is that true for most men?  I'd say many men suffer from porn addiction because they don't know how to regulate themselves with such free reign to sex.  If and when you realize how to it may become easier.

I have yet to regulate my viewing.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

Umberle said:


> Hey, it could be! Lawd knows I'd know what to do! Too bad I don't have start-up!



I can see it being possibly viable for furries, haha! Who knows?



ResolutionBlaze said:


> Perhaps that's true but is that true for most men?  I'd say many men suffer from porn addiction because they don't know how to regulate themselves with such free reign to sex.  If and when you realize how to it may become easier.
> 
> I have yet to regulate my viewing.



I don't regulate my viewing, I view exactly how much I want! As I set no restrictions for myself, I'd say I average only about 2 hours a week of yiff and regular porn browsing (almost all yiff). Then again, I do ERPs, and those are very time intensive, does that count? Idk...


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## Umberle (Feb 16, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Perhaps that's true but is that true for most men?  I'd say many men suffer from porn addiction because they don't know how to regulate themselves with such free reign to sex.  If and when you realize how to it may become easier.
> 
> I have yet to regulate my viewing.


Is regulating our porn into slots supposed to be a thing? Because I don't even do that, and I don't possess a cock of my own.
I look at a lot of furry porn on a daily basis as a furry artist (since most of the furs I meet are all freaks like myself). Does that count?


BahgDaddy said:


> I can see it being possibly viable for furries, haha! Who knows?
> 
> 
> I don't regulate my viewing, I view exactly how much I want! As I set no restrictions for myself, I'd say I average only about 2 hours a week of yiff and regular porn browsing (almost all yiff). Then again, I do ERPs, and those are very time intensive, does that count? Idk...


ERPs can be time-intensive if done properly, but I don't know that it counts in the porn topic since that's pretty personal.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

Umberle said:


> Is regulating our porn into slots supposed to be a thing? Because I don't even do that, and I don't possess a cock of my own.
> I look at a lot of furry porn on a daily basis as a furry artist (since most of the furs I meet are all freaks like myself). Does that count?
> 
> ERPs can be time-intensive if done properly, but I don't know that it counts in the porn topic since that's pretty personal.



I browse a lot of furry porn, and a lot of times it's strictly for enjoyment of the art, and then later, well you know. XD

My last ERP was about 2 and a half hours long, so yeah, I wouldn't really throw that in the porn department, and I don't really think it's useful to worry about that, either. I mean, sure, it you're viewing 25 hours a week, maybe, and it's interfering with your life?


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 16, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Two things: Professional Sports hurt those playing the sport. Professional Pornography or even porn in general harms the viewer more than the porn star on average cases.


That's ignoring the violence between fans that tends to accompany major games. Not the athletes' fault, but if you want to blame porn for masturbation, it follows that sports are to blame for game day violence.



ResolutionBlaze said:


> The magnification and the casual access to it makes porn a sexual nightmare for men. It magnifies the parts that men find attractive to hook them in more, it makes its access easy and accessible all the time, and it acts as an easy out. What men should be doing is going out and finding relationships to develop... and if they don't, perhaps that an indication that something about themselves should be altered, but if you can just access the sexual motivation with the click of a button, nothing needs to change and you end up in a shlog.


I think you're making this into a way bigger problem than it is. Sexual gratification is sexual gratification. It doesn't have to be tied to emotional release. Different people have different sex drives, and if you have a naturally high libido, unless you happen to get lucky enough to find a partner with a similarly high libido, you'll likely still be viewing porn if porn does it for you. And that's fine. Honestly as a woman I find the idea of a man going out and trying to develop relationships with the aim of getting his rocks off a little troubling. Sounds like something from RoK. 



ResolutionBlaze said:


> Secondly, I don't think money is a good reason to go into a career. I think it depends on the person and situation. If you're desperate, perhaps. But career choices are driven more by temperament and personality rather than money. That's why so many people are dropping out of law firms, women in particular. Because nobody really wants to work 80 hours a week, 500 dollars an hour, just so they can work non stop all the time. It takes a special kind of person to go through with something like that. So I don't think money is a factor for most people's career choices. I think it can be an aspect for some people's choices, but certainly not for most the data on that is clear.


It's not the _only_ factor for most people, no. But it's a contributing factor - often people weigh multiple career options, and will pick the one with better prospects (doesn't have to be higher pay; if you're choosing an education with an eye towards later working in that field, and you pick the field where work is expected to be more readily available, that's likely because money factored in). That said, just because you wouldn't do it isn't a very good reason to knock the career choices of people who choose a career for the money (I may disapprove of most of what my brother does, and he definitely picked his career for prospects, but that's not one of the things I think badly of him about). But you're welcome to show me the data on career choices you're referencing. Would be interesting to see.


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## E.A.P.I (Feb 16, 2018)

This chat has been documented.
-G


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> That's ignoring the violence between fans that tends to accompany major games. Not the athletes' fault, but if you want to blame porn for masturbation, it follows that sports are to blame for game day violence.
> 
> 
> I think you're making this into a way bigger problem than it is. Sexual gratification is sexual gratification. It doesn't have to be tied to emotional release. Different people have different sex drives, and if you have a naturally high libido, unless you happen to get lucky enough to find a partner with a similarly high libido, you'll likely still be viewing porn if porn does it for you. And that's fine. Honestly as a woman I find the idea of a man going out and trying to develop relationships with the aim of getting his rocks off a little troubling. Sounds like something from RoK.
> ...




Seems to be a contradictory statement.  You say that sex doesn't need to be tied to any emotional release, but on the same token you say that it's a negative thing for men to go out and develop real relationships just for sex.  If there is no emotional or mental connection to sex then why is that troubling?  But I digress; that isn't really what I meant because of course relationships are more than about sex.  But a porn crazed fourteen year old wouldn't know much better and I think we as a society do a crappy job at teaching young men how to handle it properly.  On one hand it's "natural" for them to be attracted to porn but shameful if they go out and have sex with women just for the sake of having sex.  It's not like porn teaches you how to have a proper relationship with a woman.


In regards to careers;

www.americanbar.org: Legal Profession Statistics

Lawyers.  Female lawyers hovers at 35% for a solid 11 years straight.  Law firms are scrambling to keep women because females have no interest in spending 80 hours a week working non stop.  As you age the utility of career starts to decline, maybe it peaks about 45 and then rapidly it plummets.  Course some people have no problem working 80 hours a week and striving for the top of their given position.  Those people are typically men because of traits such as high concienciousness.  Men ten to have a higher average rate of concienciousness but even then it's a rarer thing for men.  That makes the men who participate in Law firms extremely competative.  Women are higher in agreeableness.  Of course these are on average there are disagreeable men and women.  But that fact is very important because agreeable women tend not to do well in such a competitive environment;  once you make about $40,000 a year, additional income has zero impact on overall happiness, so agreeable women often think "well what the hell am I slaving away here for?" And seek a job that is more controlled.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Feb 16, 2018)

Porn is porn, as long as it gets you off it don't matter.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 16, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Seems to be a contradictory statement. You say that sex doesn't need to be tied to any emotional release, but on the same token you say that it's a negative thing for men to go out and develop real relationships just for sex. If there is no emotional or mental connection to sex then why is that troubling?


Not contradictory at all. Sex does not need to be tied to emotional release, so going out and developing an emotional relationship for the sake of physical release, rather than relying on means of sexual release that do not involve an emotional component, runs the risk of being predatory. I don't assign emotional value to sex by default, so to me casual sex is no major deal, but I do place a great value on honesty. Most people trying to pick people up do not do so by saying "you're hot, I'm horny, wanna fuck?" but by attempting to build some kind of personal connection. That's fine if you intend to keep in touch (many "hookup" encounters don't), and "develop real relationships" implies also putting effort into building up some kind of emotional connection. Doing that with a primary motivation of wanting sexual gratification I see as dishonest. 

The problem is not having (or seeking) casual sex, it's the false pretense of wanting something other than casual sex when doing so.



ResolutionBlaze said:


> But a porn crazed fourteen year old wouldn't know much better and I think we as a society do a crappy job at teaching young men how to handle it properly. On one hand it's "natural" for them to be attracted to porn but shameful if they go out and have sex with women just for the sake of having sex. It's not like porn teaches you how to have a proper relationship with a woman.


If what they're after is an orgasm, the porn will suffice. If what they're after is a relationship, we can attempt to offer advice but ultimately we all learn relationships by trial and error. Expecting that someone with access to all kinds of media (including movies, TV series, books, games, etc, all usually with their own problems in how they portray relationships) would choose to look to porn specifically for modeling relationships is giving teenagers far too little credit. Absolutely society can do a lot more to teach the younger generations about life, including relationships, than we do, but condemning porn isn't going to do much one way or the other towards that goal.



ResolutionBlaze said:


> Female lawyers hovers at 35% for a solid 11 years straight. Law firms are scrambling to keep women because females have no interest in spending 80 hours a week working non stop. As you age the utility of career starts to decline, maybe it peaks about 45 and then rapidly it plummets.


So... because people reevaluate their career decisions, or don't accept frankly abusive working conditions (if your law firm needs people to regularly work 80 hour weeks you obviously are assigning them an excessive case load and need to hire more people), it follows that most people don't factor in income when choosing a career? I'm willing to grant it might be indicative of it being less of a factor when choosing a second career (after realizing that the money of the first one isn't worth the trouble), though we'd need statistics regarding what field they move on to in order to make a decently accurate guess, but it doesn't indicate anything about why they picked law originally. 

https://www.arbetsgivarverket.se/gl...raktiv_arbetsgivare_hogskolestudenter_14.pptx
It's in Swedish, but it's the results from a survey about most important factors in picking a career/workplace. On page 4 there's a diagram, where the third set of bars is "high salary". Green is the overall, yellow is men, blue women.

Again, I am not saying it's the be-all-end-all for most people, but I maintain that it's an important factor.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Not contradictory at all. Sex does not need to be tied to emotional release, so going out and developing an emotional relationship for the sake of physical release, rather than relying on means of sexual release that do not involve an emotional component, runs the risk of being predatory. I don't assign emotional value to sex by default, so to me casual sex is no major deal, but I do place a great value on honesty. Most people trying to pick people up do not do so by saying "you're hot, I'm horny, wanna fuck?" but by attempting to build some kind of personal connection. That's fine if you intend to keep in touch (many "hookup" encounters don't), and "develop real relationships" implies also putting effort into building up some kind of emotional connection. Doing that with a primary motivation of wanting sexual gratification I see as dishonest.
> 
> The problem is not having (or seeking) casual sex, it's the false pretense of wanting something other than casual sex when doing so.
> 
> ...



Sex is a social interaction.  Emotional and mental are out of the equation.  If you read what I said you would know I was using it as a social example.  Again, evidenced by NoFap and porn fastings, it seems that quitting porn improves the social aspect vital for sex.

We aren't sure how porn affects some men and how it can affect others differently.  Some men seem less affected by it than others.  Again the data isn't clear because there's little control group to draw from.  But I don't think we should be jumping on a "porn is not that bad" train since we've haven't had this much access and advancement in sexual access for very long.  We don't yet fully understand it but it is clear that there are negative effects on certain men, typically younger men.

Also I'm not denying that money is a factor for selecting jobs.  But it is definitely not a sole or definitive factor.  After all, you can't work at a job you despise.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

I'd say sex is definitely a mental, emotional, and mental interaction.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Feb 16, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Right back at you. This is exactly why you alienate people, Ink. Someone corrects you, or disagrees with you, and you get incredibly defensive, hostile, and abrasive.



Speaking from the view of an ex-shitposter I've gotta say that that's mostly what he is and has been doing is shitposting.


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## Tytysi (Feb 16, 2018)

I'm not particularly into "real" porn, I stick with hentai. But the issue with that is that there's virtually no quality 2D yiffing- only that awkward 3D modeling stuff that looks like modified Sim avatars having stiff sex. As a result, I admire my fair share of still life yiff, but as far as videos go, human hentai.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I'd say sex is definitely a mental, emotional, and mental interaction.



I meant more in the context of what I am referring to.  You may be able to detach mental and emotional experiences from sex, but sex is ultimately social.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

I don't know, I think that NoFap site is a load of horse manure.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 16, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Sex is a social interaction. Emotional and mental are out of the equation. If you read what I said you would know I was using it as a social example. Again, evidenced by NoFap and porn fastings, it seems that quitting porn improves the social aspect vital for sex.


Whether you consider fulfilling social needs part of emotional health or not differs from person to person; I consider the two related. Doesn't change my argument much, though. 

You can masturbate to porn to get physical satisfaction for sexual urges. Hopefully we can at least agree that far.
You were arguing that access to porn makes people disinclined to seek out real relationships to satisfy their social needs, yes?

My position is that people _will_ go out and seek social interaction when they feel sufficient need for it, regardless of access to porn. And that's healthy. If the motivator to build relationships is not a social need, but a sexual one, most people will (due to social conditioning) not be upfront about this, which leads to misunderstandings, mismatched expectations, and general bad feelings all around. Thus, I don't feel sex is a good motivator to build new relationships.

Abstinence heightening sensitivity is not really an indicator of it improving social interactions. Sex can be better after a period of abstinence, yes. If you replace porn with social interaction, practice will improve your social skills, sure. But I'm not sure what you're referring to by a "social aspect vital for sex". 



ResolutionBlaze said:


> Also I'm not denying that money is a factor for selecting jobs. But it is definitely not a sole or definitive factor. After all, you can't work at a job you despise.


Plenty of people do. It's not particularly psychologically healthy in the long run, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I loathe doing technical translations, but (back when I could reliably work) it'd get the bills paid. How capable you are of compartmentalizing and performing a job you do not enjoy will differ from person to person.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Whether you consider fulfilling social needs part of emotional health or not differs from person to person; I consider the two related. Doesn't change my argument much, though.
> 
> You can masturbate to porn to get physical satisfaction for sexual urges. Hopefully we can at least agree that far.
> You were arguing that access to porn makes people disinclined to seek out real relationships to satisfy their social needs, yes?
> ...



No what I'm saying is that sex is an inherent social interaction.  The act of having sex with someone is a social act as well as a physical one.  Pornography takes out any social aspect out of the act of gratification.  Thus I don't think men are prepared when confronted with a relationship where sex may be involved, or have unreasonable expectations for sex and become disappointed.

_*But again, the research done so far is quite unclear; the "positives" and "negatives" of porn lacks any sort of control group so you can never know if we are dealing with biased samples.*_  I'm just noting that pornography was not always around, perhaps in different forms but nowhere near the accessibility that we currently have.  Magazines were a big leap for porn but even then, it's nothing compared to now; the Internet has made pornographic material so accessible that it can be done with no effort whatsoever.  And I cannot believe that it is without its own consequences, but we live in a time where porn advanced far faster than we could anticipate, and now we are working forwards assuming porn was always the norm, and with no current control group to pull from.  So we are kinda lost in a void in terms of actual research.

Like technology, porn evolved too fast for us to keep up with it.


Also, I should have phrased that better, I didn't mean people can't work in jobs they despise, people do all the time, what I meant to say was that people prefer to work in jobs they don't despise.


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## Troj (Feb 16, 2018)

At the very least, I'd put proud anti-fappers up there with vegans and crossfitters on the list of Annoying Loudmouths Who've Woefully Overestimated the Number of Shits We All Give. Meanwhile, ardent anti-porn activists also tend to strike me as shrill, strident, self-righteous, intellectually-dishonest Puritans.

Offhand, porn appears to be pretty similar to other forms of media in terms of its effects, pros, and cons. Already-disturbed people will consume disturbing content, and a dangerous cycle or worse, upward spiral of escalation may ensue.  People may experience a temporary spike arousal and/or aggression after viewing arousing or aggression-inducing content. Depressed and dissatisfied people may use it to fill a hole (lawl), and may become addicted as a result. If you are already guilty about your porn consumption, you may be more likely to perceive yourself as addicted. You may develop warped or unrealistic perceptions of sex and relationships if your experiences and/or knowledge are mostly or exclusively derived from (especially certain kinds of) porn. Over-exposure to content may result in desensitization to it, which may lead to people needing to "up the ante" in order to get their fix.

In my view, the common feminist talking point that porn is monolithic is patently false. Some common themes might run throughout the genre as a whole, but porn is just as diverse as any other kind of media. 

Porn should not be taken as a substitute for a real sex education or real wisdom about relationships, but sadly, it's all some people have, and good-enough porn is arguably better than nothing at all.

If you're upset about porn because you basically consider fantasy to be a form of cheating or unfaithfulness, or if you're upset by the thought of your partner pleasuring themselves without you, you're dangerously possessive and buggo-nutso, in my estimation, and you should probably consider getting some therapy before getting into a serious relationship.

link.springer.com: Transgression as Addiction: Religiosity and Moral Disapproval as Predictors of Perceived Addiction to Pornography

academic.oup.com: Meta-Analysis Summarizing the Effects of Pornography II: Aggression After Exposure | Human Communication Research | Oxford Academic

academic.oup.com: Exposure to Pornography and Aggression Toward Women: The Case of the Angry Male * | Social Problems | Oxford Academic


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 16, 2018)

Troj said:


> At the very least, I'd put proud anti-fappers up there with vegans and crossfitters on the list of Annoying Loudmouths Who've Woefully Overestimated the Number of Shits We All Give. Meanwhile, ardent anti-porn activists also tend to strike me as shrill, strident, self-righteous, intellectually-dishonest Puritans.
> 
> Offhand, porn appears to be pretty similar to other forms of media in terms of its effects, pros, and cons. Already-disturbed people will consume disturbing content, and a dangerous cycle or worse, upward spiral of escalation may ensue.  People may experience a temporary spike arousal and/or aggression after viewing arousing or aggression-inducing content. Depressed and dissatisfied people may use it to fill a hole (lawl), and may become addicted as a result. If you are already guilty about your porn consumption, you may be more likely to perceive yourself as addicted. You may develop warped or unrealistic perceptions of sex and relationships if your experiences and/or knowledge are mostly or exclusively derived from (especially certain kinds of) porn. Over-exposure to content may result in desensitization to it, which may lead to people needing to "up the ante" in order to get their fix.
> 
> ...



Why would setting a sexual standard for a relationship at all be even close to being "dangerously possessive"?

Just because I wouldn't let my boyfriend watch guys online have sexual interactions?  How about participating in sex calls?  Would that be cheating or unfaithful?  What do you consider unfaithful?

Why would watching porn be considered okay but sleeping with your neighbor unfaithful?  Are both acts not sexual?  And if a demand of sexual faithfulness is made or negotiated in the relationship, would breaking that sexual standard in the relationship be unfaithful regardless if it was visual, physical, or audible?  I think the real issue would be someone who isn't willing to give up porn for someone whom they "love".


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## Troj (Feb 16, 2018)

Fair point. I'm being a bit of a snarky asshole here, so I'll dial back and clarify.

Romantic partners need to mutually set agreements and boundaries that work for all parties involved.

If something makes you uncomfortable, you should broach that with your partner, and then you can work it out together.

I've run into people who a) believed their personal preferences were objective standards, b) believed they were in a position to unilaterally forbid their partner from doing things, and/or c) wanted to unilaterally forbid their partner from doing something that is usually considered innocuous, normal, or even, unavoidable. _That's_ what's buggo.
_If _someone's objections to porn stem directly from those kinds of attitudes and assumptions, that's unhealthy, in my estimation.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 16, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Why would setting a sexual standard for a relationship at all be even close to being "dangerously possessive"?
> 
> Just because I wouldn't let my boyfriend watch guys online have sexual interactions?  How about participating in sex calls?  Would that be cheating or unfaithful?  What do you consider unfaithful?
> 
> Why would watching porn be considered okay but sleeping with your neighbor unfaithful?  Are both acts not sexual?  And if a demand of sexual faithfulness is made or negotiated in the relationship, would breaking that sexual standard in the relationship be unfaithful regardless if it was visual, physical, or audible?  I think the real issue would be someone who isn't willing to give up porn for someone whom they "love".



I'd be totally okay with my partner viewing porn, and would expect them to also be all right with my porn viewing habit. Keeping it in the dark wouldn't be a very good idea. The type of person I'm most attracted to, after all, is someone who can be open and accepting of a wide variety of issues, stances, and people. 

So I think it's all a matter, in terms of what the partners, or multiple partners, expect of each other, and that they should respect each other's boundaries.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 17, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I'd be totally okay with my partner viewing porn, and would expect them to also be all right with my porn viewing habit. Keeping it in the dark wouldn't be a very good idea. The type of person I'm most attracted to, after all, is someone who can be open and accepting of a wide variety of issues, stances, and people.
> 
> So I think it's all a matter, in terms of what the partners, or multiple partners, expect of each other, and that they should respect each other's boundaries.



That's fine, that's a negotiation.  But if the one you loved wasn't comfortable with, say, multiple partners, or with viewing other women/men in pornography, that's something you need to discuss.


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## Saiko (Feb 17, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> Expecting that someone with access to all kinds of media (including movies, TV series, books, games, etc, all usually with their own problems in how they portray relationships) would choose to look to porn specifically for modeling relationships is giving teenagers far too little credit.


I agree with 99% of what you’ve said, but I feel like this is downplaying an actual problem. I read an article last week that discussed it fairly well. Basically there appears to be a non-negligible population of teenagers who have a distorted or confused understanding of relationships and sex specifically because of porn. That being said, it seems relatively easy to fix this.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 17, 2018)

Saiko said:


> I agree with 99% of what you’ve said, but I feel like this is downplaying an actual problem. I read an article last week that discussed it fairly well. Basically there appears to be a *non-negligible population of teenagers who have a distorted or confused understanding of relationships and sex specifically because of porn*. That being said, it seems relatively easy to fix this.



As a fatter of mact, I feel like this is more common just because many Americans (people in general even) do not possess a very nuanced understanding of relationships or sex. In many cases, the most nuanced understanding young males possess is gleaned from locker room talk. Oddly enough, "I totally banged chick X last night" doesn't lead to any sort of nuanced understanding of sex or relationships, especially not if you combine it with the standard male American machismo. (Not sure what the females are learning - probably that males are obsessed with slutty Carl's Jr hamburger ads.) This overall lack of maturity when discussing sexual issues leads to a wide variety of dysfunction. In my hometowns in southern Missouri, sex ed wasn't even a part of the curriculum! It was never a concern of mine, as I was quite the prude until recently, but apparently they didn't even teach about STDs or how to use a condom or anything like that. One of my friends was clueless until he got to a liberal arts college. Fortunately he had some parents who could discuss these issues with him.

And overall there is an inability to discuss sexual issues, especially with and amongst younger people.


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## Saiko (Feb 17, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> And overall there is an inability to discuss sexual issues, especially with and amongst younger people.


Yep, that’s something the article I linked mentioned too. In a way, Mungo was right. These teenagers aren’t favoring porn over some other example, and to assume porn subverts other examples does indeed give them too little credit. The problem seems to be the absence of those other examples, so they follow the best lead available - porn.


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## fourur (Feb 17, 2018)

I used to watch porn and hentai first but furry was more appealing , and I developed kinky and fetish on furry but no when I was on regular porn or hentai . internet magic I guess.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 17, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Why would setting a sexual standard for a relationship at all be even close to being "dangerously possessive"?
> 
> Just because I wouldn't let my boyfriend watch guys online have sexual interactions? How about participating in sex calls? Would that be cheating or unfaithful? What do you consider unfaithful?
> 
> Why would watching porn be considered okay but sleeping with your neighbor unfaithful? Are both acts not sexual? And if a demand of sexual faithfulness is made or negotiated in the relationship, would breaking that sexual standard in the relationship be unfaithful regardless if it was visual, physical, or audible? I think the real issue would be someone who isn't willing to give up porn for someone whom they "love".


I personally wouldn't use "unfaithful" because of the loading it has and how etymologically ambiguous/possibly inaccurate it is; my preference is for "cheating" because it clearly and concisely says what it is: a breech of the relationship's established rules. To me, there are two things I do not believe should ever be restricted in a relationship unless part of a consensually negotiated power exchange (refraining from something for X time because your dom told you to and you willingly submitted to their authority is a very different beast): masturbation and fantasy. If you want to restrict those, you are saying "you must get all your pleasure/tittilation from me", and that is possessive, full stop. You want to own their sexuality. If your rationale for wanting to restrict your partner's porn viewing is because you don't want them masturbating or fantasizing, that is by extension also possessive. 

What exactly is acceptable in a particular relationship is up to the people in it to negotiate - assuming that "sexual fidelity" means the same thing to you as it does to your partner is a dangerous assumption to make (it probably means he won't go screw the neighbor, but for less clear cut actions it's a toss-up). Demands should, as much as possible, not be part of a relationship unless they concern the body or the health/safety of the individual making the demand, for the relationship to be healthy. So demanding condom use is reasonable (health/safety). Demanding that your partner not go ass to mouth is reasonable (it's your mouth, plus the health concerns). When it comes to things like pornography, the healthy/reasonable thing is to say "I am not comfortable with you viewing porn". Maybe porn doesn't mean much to him, and he'll say "okay, I won't" and that's the end of that. Maybe he wants to be sure what you mean and asks you "does that include turning on my Fur Affinity adult filter?" Maybe porn is part of masturbation to him, and he asks you if there's a certain kind of porn that would be okay. None of those mean he loves you any more or less. He's trying to work with you so that you can both be comfortable. Just giving in even though he doesn't really want to, maybe because he thinks not doing so would be showing that he loves you less than he does porn, is likely to lead to resentment, not a stable, healthy relationship.

If my boyfriend, who is vegetarian, demanded I give up meat for him, I'd either tell him to hit the road or that I'd do so when he gets in a position to cook/prepare healthy vegetarian meals for me, and only to the extent that he continues to do so. That doesn't mean I don't love him, or that I like meat more than I care for him. It means that going vegetarian would be a huge change to my diet, and if I had to prepare the food myself result in my diet being even unhealthier than it already is, and that I don't feel he has a right to demand I make that sacrifice without seriously reducing its impact on me. 

You're getting into the relationship with the person they are, after all, not who you think you can change them into. (Or at least you should - if you get into a relationship thinking "I can change them" you're setting both yourself and your partner(s) up for failure.)



Troj said:


> Fair point. I'm being a bit of a snarky asshole here, so I'll dial back and clarify.


For the record, I think you were pretty clear even with the snark. But overall agreement, a lot of whether it's DTMFA material depends on the _why_. I'm a lot more positively inclined towards guys who dislike porn because it feeds into their own feelings of inadequacy or whatever, than those who'd demand I not view it because they should be enough for me. And I don't even like filmed porn!



Saiko said:


> I agree with 99% of what you’ve said, but I feel like this is downplaying an actual problem. I read an article last week that discussed it fairly well. Basically there appears to be a non-negligible population of teenagers who have a distorted or confused understanding of relationships and sex specifically because of porn. That being said, it seems relatively easy to fix this.


Point taken. I do maintain (and the article seems to support, or at least not contradict, this) that the primary area where it could cause confusion is sex and the sexual part of the relationship, while I was more referring to the relationship as a whole, possibly with some emphasis on the social aspect. I don't pretend _Friends_ (or whatever sitcom is popular with kids these days) always is a good relationship role model, but that would seem to be a more likely source of information about the relationship part than porn. It's kind of telling what non-porn media is mentioned in the article, as well. _50 Shades of Grey_ is not exactly well regarded by the BDSM community, and the fact that it shows up on non-genre shelves in book stores and in major movie theaters gives it an air of "adult approval" that porn doesn't have. _Family Guy_, well... Aside from being less than serious to begin with, 9/10 cases when Peter suggests or does something inappropriate (I think it was mentioned in the context of facials and anal sex) to Lois, her reaction is an indignant "PETER!" while the things that make her go "oh, Peter..." in a husky voice tend to... balance romantic and lewd to some degree. Plus, even within the show, Peter isn't exactly a role model. But the fact that we have mainstream media which brings up non-vanilla sex is something that society needs to adjust to at least as much as the availability of porn. 

My perspective is probably also colored by having had a decent, though not great, sexual education in school, as well as access to other socially acceptable media (not mentioned on Wikipedia, the magazine contains a section whose title loosely translates to "Body & Brain", which at least back when I was subscribed to it was a section for readers to send in their questions about their own bodies and thoughts for professional adults to answer) which bring up sex ed/puberty. To me access to basic, fact-based sex ed is a human right and something I may subsconsciously take for granted. That alone might also do a great deal to shift young people's understanding of porn. 

I think a good way to view porn may be as the sex equivalent to driving in action movies. In real life, you're going to start out clumsy, probably stall or rush your engine a few times, and ultimately reach a level where you can safely and comfortably get where you're going.  Action movies don't care so much about traffic laws or safe driving - they do what looks cool on camera and makes good film (otherwise they'd just cut to destination, and I believe there _is_ porn out there that does basically this; a compilation of money shots and relatively little else). Doesn't mean it's all stuff you couldn't do at home, but you're probably going to have to take a good bit more care than shown learning it.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Feb 17, 2018)

I watch pandaren porn. What's wrong with watching porn of my own species


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 17, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> No what I'm saying is that sex is an inherent social interaction. The act of having sex with someone is a social act as well as a physical one. Pornography takes out any social aspect out of the act of gratification.


And this is a problem... why? Traditionally/historically buying, say, a snack, has been a social interaction. You give the clerk your money, they give you your snack and any change. Vending machines eliminate the social aspect, but what you were wanting when you bought your snack was a snack, not a chat about the weather with the sales clerk, so I don't see where this is an inherent problem. If a snack is too much of an abstraction, you can substitute a hands-on massage vs a massage chair or what have you. 



ResolutionBlaze said:


> Thus I don't think men are prepared when confronted with a relationship where sex may be involved, or have unreasonable expectations for sex and become disappointed.


No one has ever been, or will ever be, truly prepared for their first sexual relationship. One way or another, it will be awkward, or embarrassing, or fall short of expectations. Probably all three. Hell, even if you had a great sexual relationship with your last partner, getting in a new relationship means you have to re-learn half of what you thought you knew, because individual responses vary greatly. Not saying porn can't help build up an inaccurate idea of what sex is like, but it does not automatically follow that porn is across-the-board unhealthy for men. 



ResolutionBlaze said:


> I'm just noting that pornography was not always around, perhaps in different forms but nowhere near the accessibility that we currently have. Magazines were a big leap for porn but even then, it's nothing compared to now; the Internet has made pornographic material so accessible that it can be done with no effort whatsoever. And I cannot believe that it is without its own consequences, but we live in a time where porn advanced far faster than we could anticipate, and now we are working forwards assuming porn was always the norm, and with no current control group to pull from. So we are kinda lost in a void in terms of actual research.


Keep in mind that there's also a flip side to this situation: children being as isolated from adults' (or livestock's) sex lives as they are in modern society is likely (in the sense that archeology and even more modern history are fields of educated guesses to some extent, with certainty going up as we approach modern day) a relatively new development. Maybe, if there's a harmful effect, it comes from the combination of the two. Research will virtually always lag behind societal/technological advancements and trends in terms of things like impact studies, because it's nigh-impossible to know what is going to happen in time to set up a concurrent study.


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Feb 17, 2018)

Where's the _neither_ option?
I have no desire to watch videos of underaged, drugged women being treated like dirt by dirty old men, nor do I get anything out of mediocre drawings of fox-men anally penetrating one another.

Erotica and art is my jam, though it has to be to my tastes, of course. 
And there's little demand for the stuff I'm into, so, I rely on my imagination - or my partner - most of the time.


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## AustinB (Feb 17, 2018)

Mr. Fox said:


> Porn is porn, as long as it gets you off it don't matter.


As long as it ain’t CP or some other seriously fucked up shit


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## Deleted member 82554 (Feb 18, 2018)

AustinB said:


> As long as it ain’t CP or some other seriously fucked up shit


It's porn, it has one desired effect, as long as it's not hurting anyone it shouldn't matter what it is. Someone can whack-off to killing people for all I care, as long as they're not out there actually doing it.


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Fox said:


> It's porn, it has one desired effect, as long as it's not hurting anyone it shouldn't matter what it is. Someone can whack of to killing people for all I care, as long as they're not out there actually doing it.



Now, that's not what people say to ne when I draw violent, sadistic, torture yiff.


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## modfox (Feb 18, 2018)

KILL.MAIM.KILL said:


> Now, that's not what people say to ne when I draw violent, sadistic, torture yiff.


the question is... why are they viewing stuff like that in the first place?


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## HuskyLover101 (Feb 18, 2018)

50/50 here, although most furry porn I have just for the eye candy. Can rarely get off on it like I can the real stuff! As far as real goes, it has to be amateur porn, because staged blockbuster porn is so fake and stupid! I like seeing what other people like myself show what gets them off.


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 18, 2018)

modfox said:


> the question is... why are they viewing stuff like that in the first place?



Because they're degenerates! Duh!


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Feb 18, 2018)

modfox said:


> the question is... why are they viewing stuff like that in the first place?



I'll be honest, I draw it purely out of boredom. 
Doesn't do much for me sexually.


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## Troj (Feb 18, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> As a fatter of mact, I feel like this is more common just because many Americans (people in general even) do not possess a very nuanced understanding of relationships or sex. In many cases, the most nuanced understanding young males possess is gleaned from locker room talk. Oddly enough, "I totally banged chick X last night" doesn't lead to any sort of nuanced understanding of sex or relationships, especially not if you combine it with the standard male American machismo. (Not sure what the females are learning - probably that males are obsessed with slutty Carl's Jr hamburger ads.) This overall lack of maturity when discussing sexual issues leads to a wide variety of dysfunction. In my hometowns in southern Missouri, sex ed wasn't even a part of the curriculum! It was never a concern of mine, as I was quite the prude until recently, but apparently they didn't even teach about STDs or how to use a condom or anything like that. One of my friends was clueless until he got to a liberal arts college. Fortunately he had some parents who could discuss these issues with him.
> 
> And overall there is an inability to discuss sexual issues, especially with and amongst younger people.



Exactly so.

Americans are simultaneously scared of sex and obsessed with it, in my estimation.

Many of our implicit attitudes, public policies, and sex ed curricula have unfortunately been influenced by a very particular set of Puritanical right-wing religious values, and this contributes to the widespread ignorance, fear, squeamishness, and general unwillingness to both learn and teach about sex.

On top of all that, men in particular are told that "feels are for fags," so they're often discouraged from talking about sex in terms beyond "Yeah, I fucked that bitch hard" or "I want to pound that pussy like it owes me money."

The negative byproducts of porn consumption are symptoms of the disease, and not the disease itself, I would argue.

We wouldn't have to worry as much about people developing a warped view of sex and relationships from porn if they had ready access to accurate information and healthy examples of good sex and positive relationships.  The sad reality is, a lot of people don't.


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## Uluri (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Fox said:


> It's porn, it has one desired effect, as long as it's not hurting anyone it shouldn't matter what it is. Someone can whack of to killing people for all I care, as long as they're not out there actually doing it.


To MR.Fox: I know right? 



KILL.MAIM.KILL said:


> Now, that's not what people say to ne when I draw violent, sadistic, torture yiff.





modfox said:


> the question is... why are they viewing stuff like that in the first place?



XP To Modfox & Kill?: Do You mean the people who obviously don't enjoy gore who go out of their way to find and comment on gore art about how much they don't like it? It amazes me, really. Why do people have this urge to stare at something they don't even like? I always recommend them to go look at art they do like instead. 



BahgDaddy said:


> As a fatter of mact, I feel like this is more common just because many Americans (people in general even) do not possess a very nuanced understanding of relationships or sex. In many cases, the most nuanced understanding young males possess is gleaned from locker room talk. Oddly enough, "I totally banged chick X last night" doesn't lead to any sort of nuanced understanding of sex or relationships, especially not if you combine it with the standard male American machismo. (Not sure what the females are learning - probably that males are obsessed with slutty Carl's Jr hamburger ads.) This overall lack of maturity when discussing sexual issues leads to a wide variety of dysfunction. In my hometowns in southern Missouri, sex ed wasn't even a part of the curriculum! It was never a concern of mine, as I was quite the prude until recently, but apparently they didn't even teach about STDs or how to use a condom or anything like that. One of my friends was clueless until he got to a liberal arts college. Fortunately he had some parents who could discuss these issues with him.
> 
> And overall there is an inability to discuss sexual issues, especially with and amongst younger people.


I AGREE COMPLETELY that this is an issue. I've actually gotten to discuss with a number of people about their Sex Ed they got growing up. Most people in america I talked to had barely any. Barely any Schools don't teach sex ed in america well beyond slapping a diagram of innards of the male and female parts (not even how to use them safely). Sex ed in my school was done during senior year when people were 18-19 already. There were children in my school every year pregnant at 13 (still are btw). Last year of school is WAY too late for sex ed, and they don't even teach enough about safe sexual relationships (Or relationships in general actually). ESPECIALLY when it comes to women. I ended up learning a lot years after how tedious women might need to prepare for that act, and how easily it can hurt them. In sex ed, people in my class (who were sexually active) asked this, "She can't get pregnant if she's on top because of gravity, right?" PS: The answer is Yes she can, and Every one of those boys' and girls' faces dropped when they heard that. Let's just say that I was horrified of how many students were clueless about the subject at _that_ age. I'm glad my parents were open with me on the subject and taught me throughout my life as I grew up about it since I was 6. I'm glad that people have continued to talk to me afterwards. I am still meeting people who tell me their horror stories of the trouble they got in because they just Didn't Know. I really think this subject is something people should be more comfortable talking to with and teaching, because it really hurts kids who just don't know (And adults considering how many I've met who also don't know, too). I'll even go out of my way to sit down with those people telling me these horror stories if they still need to ask some questions because I feel it is direly important. 

Ah, also in Direct to "Girl's Locker room Talk" I'd have to say I never heard much beyond "Wow X is a slut. Did you hear they did it with Y and Z?" from every girl talking behind another girls back. It was rather depressing to have to listen to that all the time in highschool. (Semi related: It always made me sad to see so many people base a relationship on sex alone. There's a lot more to a relationship than that.)


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## Yakamaru (Feb 19, 2018)

Not sure if this thread is even allowed on a PG-13 forum though.

I will have to go with Furry porn. Definitely been enjoying that more than I do normal porn, though there are some really good genres I enjoy of both. =w=


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## BahgDaddy (Feb 19, 2018)

Uluri said:


> To MR.Fox: I know right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, and I've talked to people in other countries, say Germany, who say the state of the sex education is much better there, generally speaking. I've often been appalled now, when talking to various American students, here and in real life (people who've grown up with me, mostly) and inform me that for the most part they received no sex education. 

As a result I think my area back in MO received a very high quantity of teenage pregnancies, sexual deviancies, and faulty and often abusive marriages. And by deviants I mean actual deviants, not people who like furry vore dragon inflation yiff.


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Feb 19, 2018)

Uluri said:


> XP To Modfox & Kill?: Do You mean the people who obviously don't enjoy gore who go out of their way to find and comment on gore art about how much they don't like it? It amazes me, really. Why do people have this urge to stare at something they don't even like? I always recommend them to go look at art they do like instead.



Actually, I frequently go out of my way to experience things I hate. Both online and in real life.

Sometimes, it's justified. Some stuff is just unacceptable, and needs to be protested against. Sometimes you have to tell someone hey, this is awful, you're fucking awful, stop this right now.

And sometimes people like to look at content they dislike as a form of entertainment. Think gross-out humor or the recent _'cringe compilation'_ trend

But in my case, it's a little different.
To cut a long story short, I have a pretty serious anger disorder. Among other things, I lack tje ability to "live and let live," so to speak.
When a normal person comes across a concept they dislike, they might be uncomfortable or slightly irked. I, however, will absolutely lose my shit. If I see something I don't like, nine times out of ten, it will make me extremely angry.

This can lead to me getting _seriously, physically enraged_ over things that may not even affect me.

For reasons I still don't understand, I often find myself purposefully triggering my anger. It may be some weird form of subconscious self-harm, or maybe it's because the rage gives me a rush, and can make me feel powerful and determined.

I will do something I hate. I will seek out art and pornography I believe to be unacceptable. I will interact with the kind of people I despise.
I will also lure people into mistreating me just so I can get fucking livid over it.

As you can probably guess, this is by no means healthy, but I can't seem to stop doing it, or change the way I feel. I guess it's just the way I am.

Anyway, enough about me.
I'm not at all surprised that people go look for submissions they don't like. It's the internet. People do it all the time for a multitude of reasons.

I also personally don't care if someone doesn't like what I do. In fact, I often get a kick out of it when someone expresses dislike in the subjects I draw or write, especially if it's a reversal of stereotypes.

Ohh, does my drawing of a feminine boy humiliating a large, masculine anthro upset you? _Fantastic._


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## E.A.P.I (Feb 21, 2018)

As much as it hurts, I have to record this conversation. I have to. 
-G


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Feb 21, 2018)

E.A.P.I said:


> As much as it hurts, I have to record this conversation. I have to.
> -G



As if it wasn't bad enough that we have people going off topic and shitposting in the discussion threads, now we have roleplayers.


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## E.A.P.I (Feb 21, 2018)

KILL.MAIM.KILL said:


> As if it wasn't bad enough that we have people going off topic and shitposting in the discussion threads, now we have roleplayers.


I'm not a role player.


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Feb 21, 2018)

E.A.P.I said:


> I'm not a role player.


Sure you're not.


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## E.A.P.I (Feb 21, 2018)

KILL.MAIM.KILL said:


> Sure you're not.


I do not really care what people think about me. I don't have to justify myself.


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## Loffi (Feb 21, 2018)

Neither. Robot porn til the day I die.


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