# Thoughts on 4chan?



## Purplefuzz (Dec 20, 2019)

Never used(beyond lurking) but I've never understood the point and it beef with furries.


----------



## Pipistrele (Dec 20, 2019)

4chan is.. well, pretty varied. It's has places where you can find engaging music discussions (/mu/), have an open conversation about gender and sexuality (/lgbt/) and get a constructive fitness advice (/fit/), but it also has places with extremist political discussions (/pol/) and general unashamed shitpostery (/b/). Basically, the experience you get highly depends on board you visit - the only unifying feature is anonymity by default, which results in relative lack of responsibility and, as a result, invites all sorts of weirdos to the site; still, it allows for all kinds of interactions you just can't have on other social networks, so it's more of an acquired taste than an overall flaw.



Purplefuzz said:


> beef with furries.


During the peak of 4chan (2006-2009 or so), furries were a common easy target, and anon actively aimed at them. Nowadays, it's more of a cheeky tradition, and it's not even that uncommon to see furry/kemono threads on /a/ and /b/, though naturally there's more than a few furry haters remaining.


----------



## Fallowfox (Dec 20, 2019)

It is too publicly associated with news stories about murder for me to have anything other than a negative view of it. 

I suppose perhaps that's like me judging all of reddit based on the incel subreddit, but in the case of 4chan its reputation is just so much worse.


----------



## Skittles (Dec 20, 2019)

Bring it down! -Gestures aggressively to the 1000 Basilisk self propelled artillery guns parked behind him.- I am not a fan of 4chan.


----------



## Foxy Emy (Dec 20, 2019)

I don't remember what 4chan is? Isn't it like an off brand Reddit?


----------



## Fallowfox (Dec 20, 2019)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> I don't remember what 4chan is? Isn't it like an off brand Reddit?



It's an anonymous image board, initially created to discuss animé. 
A lot of widespread internet memes come from there, but the site has also been criticised for hosting neo-nazi content, and there have been prominent arrests for the network being used to distribute child pornography or images of victims shared by their murderers. Some terrorists made reference to 4chan, or posted their manifestos to 4chan, before carrying out attacks. 

There are various other spin-off 'chans', like 8chan, which have been associated with multiple cases of mass-shooting terrorism- such as the Poway Synagogue shooting and the El Paso massacre.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 20, 2019)

I guess in the distant past, before it got taken over wholesale by nazis, there was something of value to be found in the subboards on occasion.

Those days are long gone. Nobody should send traffic and advertising dollars their way.


----------



## HistoricalyIncorrect (Dec 20, 2019)




----------



## TrishaCat (Dec 20, 2019)

I used to go to 4chan all the time, mostly frequenting the video game board (/v/). It was neat in that I could discuss any game I want there and no matter how niche, how obscure, I'd still get replies. I don't know of any other place on the internet that allows that. I've had some fun discussions there and even learned some things about video games there.
That said
I barely go there anymore these days though; I grew tired of the constant shitposting, bigotry, and general repetitious threads. There's only so many times I can see the same console war threads before I go insane.
And while I like anime, /a/ itself was unusable since everyone on the board is absurdly bitter.
4chan is...I like it in idea, but
Well its hard to give an opinion since each board of the site has a very different community. Generally speaking though, its just too much. If /pol/ was deleted and didn't exist I might be more inclined to go there since the bigotry would probably go down a good bit, but that still doesn't fix all of its problems.


----------



## AceQuorthon (Dec 20, 2019)

Crap site with edgy people on it, I appreciate the anonymity but that really drags forward the most awful people


----------



## Purplefuzz (Dec 20, 2019)

AceQuorthon said:


> Crap site with edgy people on it, I appreciate the anonymity but that really drags forward the most awful people



It really feels like its from people who can't handle others  enjoying things they hate.


----------



## Slytherin Umbreon (Dec 20, 2019)

Fort Chan is a vile, godless hole, but like... Not in a good way like the Furry Fandom is. uwu

Utterly devoid of light, love and hope, and fueled only by cheetos and mountain dew the memes of the internet grew weary and baleful, plotting the fall of civilization via the destruction of social tact and rapport.
Alas, unfortunately their plans to destroy humanity were derailed by the never-ending creation of even more memes, so it will take another ~150 years or so.

Or something along those lines.


----------



## TrishaCat (Dec 20, 2019)

I will add that back when I did use 4chan, one thing I liked about it is that nothing felt personal. People could sling all the insults in the world at me and it wouldn't matter because they don't actually know who I am; there's nothing personal about it. In this sense, I felt safer and more at ease on the site than a lot of other sites. 
If you get insulted on a forum or on Twitter, they're insulting *you*. Not your post, not an idea you came up with, but you. In this sense, there's a bit of comfort to be had in using anonymous image boards. You're not judged.
I feel unsafe and bullied on Twitter; I don't feel unsafe or bullied on 4chan, even if I'm more likely to be yelled at on the latter.


----------



## Sir Thaikard (Dec 20, 2019)

I love it and miss it. The rampant shitposting, the screams of idiots screaming at more idiots about idiotic things, it was a cesspool of hatred, rage, and incoherent nonsense.

I just don't have the time anymore to sift through the garbage to find a few gems. But when I do it's like coming home to family that you love to hate.


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Dec 20, 2019)

Ewww 4chan no further comment.


----------



## Simo (Dec 20, 2019)

It's something I very much try _not _to think of, and even worse, other sites that it's spawned, such as 8 chan. I wouldn't touch either of these places with a 100 foot pole, based on their histories of promoting hatred, ill will, violence, sexual perdition and other nefarious and vile acts, deeds and viewpoints.


----------



## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 20, 2019)

I was always told it was the U-bend under Something Awful (which I believe has gone down the drain itself).  I'm not so sure it deserves that much praise frankly.

Personally a little insulted by the implications of at least one thing they have claimed to "weaponize" as well.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Dec 21, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> I was always told it was the U-bend under Something Awful (which I believe has gone down the drain itself). I'm not so sure it deserves that much praise frankly.



SA was in many ways even more nasty to anything didn't like than 4chan was shockingly. It took a furry con being attacked for them to rethink on there views and seems to reek of the US view on sex being taboo. 

Nowadays it mostly just seen as a shitty forum that asked for money to join and Ex users ditching it because there toxicity got to much.


----------



## Attaman (Dec 21, 2019)

On one hand, it's not _quite_ as bad as the thankfully imploded 8', so it's not the _worst_ site on the internet.

On the other hand, that's _extremely_ faint praise: "Hey, it's not as bad as the site that had people cheering at the live-streaming of *multiple *mass-shootings that also unrepentantly hosted CP, Neo-Nazi manifestos, and other such material; It only posts CP when it thinks it can get away with it and the Neo-Nazis are confined to a singular board except when they're not".

The site's shit, and it's little wonder that its owner cashed out ages ago. This isn't to say it was ever particularly _great_, but it at least wasn't as big as a clusterfuck as it is now (which is in no small part interesting because 8's rise to fame was a result of a mass-exodus from 4, meaning that there's a pretty strong argument to be made that you only need a few bad eggs and a bunch more sympathetic ears to create a radicalization pipeline).


----------



## Elliot Manowar (Dec 21, 2019)

It's about as bad as Tumblr to honestly gauge the site.


----------



## Attaman (Dec 21, 2019)

Elliot Manowar said:


> It's about as bad as Tumblr to honestly gauge the site.


I mean, yes: Tumblr has had a bit of an issue with Neo-Nazi and Pedo accounts too (in fact, it was the main reason Tumblr tried to engage in its NSFW purge in the first place). But I think it's a bit unfair to compare the two when one's reaction to "Oh shit we have a bunch of Pedo's" is to crack down *comically* hard (even more comically due to its ineffectuality: Just ask any user who's stuck around since 2018 how effective the whole PornBot Purge has been), while the other was to... bring back the predominantly Neo-Nazi board, slacken its rules on what counts as CP (as well as reduce enforcement of said slackened rules), and basically receive its shut-down peer's users (who left in the first place because they felt the site's old stance on the matters of CP and Neo-Nazism were _too strict_) with open arms.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 21, 2019)

4chan has boards that's almost filled with furries. /k/ /co/ and /v/ comes to mind.


Battlechili said:


> I feel unsafe and bullied on Twitter; I don't feel unsafe or bullied on 4chan, even if I'm more likely to be yelled at on the latter.


This is a good point, 4chan is aware how awful real life is, Twittler/Tumblr is not.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Dec 21, 2019)

Imperial Impact said:


> 4chan has boards that's almost filled with furries. /k/ /co/ and /v/ comes to mind.



Not to mention posting anthro pics don't gather the fury of a thousand suns the few times i post/lurk there.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 22, 2019)

Purplefuzz said:


> Not to mention posting anthro pics don't gather the fury of a thousand suns the few times i post/lurk there.


Posting Guro, CP or furry art on the blue boards is against the rules.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Dec 22, 2019)

Imperial Impact said:


> furry art on the blue boards is against the rules.



Yet NSFW anime art is ignored and still assume anything anthro = furry art even SFW. Even a guy i knew admitted it was too much.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Dec 22, 2019)

Purplefuzz said:


> Yet NSFW anime art is ignored.


Even that isn't allowed.


Purplefuzz said:


> still assume anything anthro = furry art even SFW.


If it's not related to the topic, Then it's against the rules.


----------



## puddinsticks (Dec 22, 2019)




----------



## Jackpot Raccuki (Dec 22, 2019)

Another thread?

I mean, yes it is hell and full of horrible stuff but to be fair I guess it makes sense since it allows for people to vent or be as political as they want with little to no backlash.
Haven't browsed it in awhile to be honest, but I can assume it's just as crazy as before.

Just remember that on 4Chan, you're always wrong. : )


----------



## Kiaara (Dec 22, 2019)

While 4Chan does have it's shit stream, just like every social media site ever, it has its moments. We would have nearly as many cat memes without 4chans early days of Caturday. That and the Kenny Glenn case was awesome. I don't think I have ever been on 4chan, but I do know a lot of weird and fucked up shit comes from it


----------



## Infrarednexus (Dec 22, 2019)

It has its moments


----------



## Angelcakes (Dec 26, 2019)

It's the gaping syphilitic asshole of the internet, and the absolute prime example of how hate speech 'for the lulz' eventually deteriorates into hate speech for real.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Dec 26, 2019)

It's the only place I could safely vent about a couple things that have bothered me for my entire life without getting dogpiled, but I don't feel like actually going there.


----------



## pilgrimfromoblivion (Dec 27, 2019)

Angelcakes said:


> It's the gaping syphilitic asshole of the internet, and the absolute prime example of how hate speech 'for the lulz' eventually deteriorates into hate speech for real.


^


----------



## pilgrimfromoblivion (Dec 28, 2019)

Attaman said:


> which is in no small part interesting because 8's rise to fame was a result of a mass-exodus from 4


/b/ day. stand by cracky chan.


----------



## CrookedCroc (Dec 28, 2019)

I think a lot of people's perception of the site has been shaped by those "Top 10 internet mysteries" and "Top 10 4chan pranks" videos on YouTube.

The place used to be pretty good for discussing niche topics like anime/manga, videogames and what not. I found out about a bunch of cool stuff in there and made a few friends who i still keep in touch with to this day.
Unfortunately getting a good discussion going is almost impossible nowadays due to the amount of shitposting, repetitiveness, meta threads and tripcodes. Thankfully I jumped ship long ago, and although I miss having good TES lore threads I wouldn't set foot in there (or Reddit) again.

As for the furry hate thing, that's mostly a meme/tradition of sorts, like a formality. I have no doubt in my mind that 60% of /v/ and /b/ are furries themselves, if you don't believe me just try to make a Klonoa/Solatorobo thread without getting a porn dump within the first 15 posts.


----------



## Anthrasmagoria (Dec 28, 2019)

They seem to have the news before anyone else does.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Dec 28, 2019)

Anthrasmagoria said:


> They seem to have the news before anyone else does.



Or they are the news with 2 murders that happed there.


----------



## TheCynicalViet (Dec 29, 2019)

I still like using it. I didn't like when I got permabanned for no reason but that's when VPNs are for.


----------



## WeaselWarrior (Dec 30, 2019)

I'm surprised /trash/ hasn't been brought up, considering it's more or less the unofficial furry board.

I still browse 4chan from time to time, though not as much as I used to. I do like the anonymity of it.


----------



## HecticSeth (Dec 30, 2019)

im a 4channer. i browse /x/ and /v/. /b/ has gone to shit full of horny coomers. and then there is /pol/.... full of neo nazi idiots. tbh i must not stress enough 90% of 4chan now days is troll posts and obvious bait to get reactions i have been using the site for about 6 years now. then you have the new commers aka "newfags" who just go on there and post to be cool. i see alot of people calling everyone on 4chan a nazi. thats like calling everyone in the state of texas a nazi there are alot of people who use 4chan it gets alot of visitors everyday in the hundreds of thousands. infact there are alot of left leaning people i know irl who browse /pol/. it really is a great site just some... you know not so savory people go on it. long story short. 4chan is the cesspool of the internet but also the savoir of the internet. us 4channers are everywhere. and i mean fucking everywhere i must admit i dont use the site as much as i used too and it has gone to shit the past year. manly because of horny people on /b/ and the nazis in /pol/


----------



## BlackDragonAJ89 (May 5, 2020)

Remember Something Awful? Remember Uwe Bowl?

Uwe Bowl beat a bunch of the top goons from SA in a boxing match. A lot of people who weren't tolerated on SA pretty much made 4chan.

Look, if your role models get their asses kicked by someone like Uwe Bowl, I think you really need to reconsider yourself and your tastes in "comedy".

Something Awful was well, it's namesake, but 4chan is the dumpster fire floating down the river of poop...


----------



## Purplefuzz (May 6, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> Remember Something Awful? Remember Uwe Bowl?
> 
> Uwe Bowl beat a bunch of the top goons from SA in a boxing match. A lot of people who weren't tolerated on SA pretty much made 4chan.
> 
> ...



Something awful is why there a art blackout in the furry community from 1999 ~ 2006. The site costed 10$ to use but would ban you dumb reasons which caused a massive amount of fed up goons moving to Reddit/twitter/more where they don't auto ban you for enjoying anthros.

Both seem to be filled with people who think enjoying 18+ art is a crime and refuse to here counter points that point out the stupidity of it.


----------



## Toasty9399 (May 7, 2020)

Decent, it's just another echo chamber tho


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (May 7, 2020)

It's not for me.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (May 7, 2020)

I've heard one day "trolling 4chan is like pissing in an ocean of piss"; I've not been there much but it seems like a good quote



TheCynicalViet said:


> I still like using it. I didn't like when I got permabanned for no reason but that's when VPNs are for.


Come again? is there a single site on this internet that doesn't have "that" sort of mods?? HAHA


----------



## ChozetsuDynamisch (Jun 21, 2020)

4chan? I never go to that website, thought I heard of it for a time. My WiFi would prevent me from going into that website becuase that website is dangerous.

Malaysia and Singapore also banned that website too, but I dunno know anymore...


----------



## redhusky (Jun 21, 2020)

You get what you want out of it and where you post on it. Just like any other internet site.


----------



## MrSpookyBoots (Jun 21, 2020)

Don't really care what 4Chan thinks about furries. As for the website itself, it has a clunky interface, it can be hard to navigate if you don't know where to go, and there is no meaningful interaction with people beyond posting photoshopped images and cracking jokes. Tried getting involved with the community once, but it wasn't for me....because there isn't really a "community" at all. Its entire user base is anonymous.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

ChozetsuDynamisch said:


> 4chan? I never go to that website, thought I heard of it for a time. My WiFi would prevent me from going into that website becuase that website is dangerous.
> 
> Malaysia and Singapore also banned that website too, but I dunno know anymore...



A lot if ISPs automatically block the site because it has been associated with making threats of terror attacks, sharing child pornography, and even murdering somebody's mother and sharing the photographs. 

4chan - Wikipedia


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> A lot if ISPs automatically block the site because it has been associated with making threats of terror attacks, sharing child pornography, and even murdering somebody's mother and sharing the photographs.
> 
> 4chan - Wikipedia


I mean, you can find a lot of that too on Facebook and yet nobody's banning it
(except China)


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I mean, you can find a lot of that too on Facebook and yet nobody's banning it
> (except China)



I don't want to defend Facebook's choices, for example to host beheading videos under the auspice that they count as 'news'. 

The behaviour and culture on 4chan is toxic and shouldn't be excused. That weirdo who registered on the forum this week, threatened to kill gay people and posted a picture of a bunch of murdered clubbers? The image URLs he posted were from 4chan.


----------



## Rayd (Jun 21, 2020)

better than twitter


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't want to defend Facebook's choices, for example to host beheading videos under the auspice that they count as 'news'.
> 
> The behaviour and culture on 4chan is toxic and shouldn't be excused. That weirdo who registered on the forum this week, threatened to kill gay people and posted a picture of a bunch of murdered clubbers? The image URLs he posted were from 4chan.


I've not been there much but I've heard it's pretty big, is everyone here of the same "culture"?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I've not been there much but I've heard it's pretty big, is everyone here of the same "culture"?



Frankly I'm not sure why you're whiteknighting for these people. 

Have a look in the mirror and ask yourself why your response to 'they're blocked because their forum is notorious for sharing child abuse and murder photography; a user even came here and shared murder photographs,' 

is 'yes _but_'. 

What's the value in defending them?


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Frankly I'm not sure why you're whiteknighting for these people.
> 
> Have a look in the mirror and ask yourself why your response to 'they're blocked because their forum is notorious for sharing child abuse and murder photography; a user even came here and shared murder photographs,'
> 
> ...


 I'm asking a question. I Don't even know who is "them" because I Don't go there. How is that whiteknighting..? My response wasn't "yes but", it was "why isn't facebook blocked by more countries given that their platform is notorious for hosting shooting spree and torture livestreams?" You've not answered that, choosing instead to go into full weird tribalism mode.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I'm asking a question. I Don't even know who is "them" because I Don't go there. How is that whiteknighting..? My response wasn't "yes but", it was "why isn't facebook blocked by more countries given that their platform is notorious for hosting shooting spree and torture livestreams?" You've not answered that, choosing instead to go into full weird tribalism mode.



'yes *but *what about facebook' 

The disgusting behaviours on 4chan_ wouldn't_ magically be okay if somebody else did them and got away with it. 

The simple answer to your question of why 4chan specifically has a poor reputation is that the prominence of criminal and extreme content on their network is high compared to most other websites. 
You already knew this though.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> 'yes *but *what about facebook'
> 
> The disgusting behaviours on 4chan_ wouldn't_ magically be okay if somebody else did them and got away with it.
> 
> ...


No, I wouldn't know about that. For instance I Don't know how many torture livestreams it has hosted, I've not heard of any; on the other hand there's been at least one on facebook, yet facebook's not blocked


----------



## Punkedsolar (Jun 21, 2020)

Mostly when I run into 4Chan folks, the humour is very punching-down.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, in general.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> No, I wouldn't know about that. For instance I Don't know how many torture livestreams it has hosted, I've not heard of any; on the other hand there's been at least one on facebook, yet facebook's not blocked



Allow me to educate you then. Facebook has over a billion users and most people who use it are using it for normal mundane things like keeping in touch with friends and relatives.
I don't think they're a particularly _nice_ network, and I think they should do much more to moderate the content on their platform and how the data collected about users is sold, how their profits are taxed etc, personally.
That's going to require legislation, because if there are laws requiring businesses to do that, they're not going to bother with the expenses unfortunately. They'll settle for the lowest possible levels of moderation that don't result in too many users leaving, sadly, because that's how you make money.

4chan on the other hand is _not _a platform designed to appeal to normal average Joes. Imagine an unemployed 21 year old who has an incest fetish and got dumped by his girlfriend after sharing her nudes without permission and you probably have a better picture of their target audience.

Just read their wikipedia page. Child porn, egging people on to commit terror attacks, bomb threats, celebrating when users on the forum murdered people and posted the photographs. They just have a full house of awful.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Allow me to educate you then. Facebook has over a billion users and most people who use it are using it for normal mundane things like keeping in touch with friends and relatives.
> I don't think they're a particularly _nice_ network, and I think they should do much more to moderate the content on their platform and how the data collected about users is sold, how their profits are taxed etc, personally.
> That's going to require legislation, because if there are laws requiring businesses to do that, they're not going to bother with the expenses unfortunately. They'll settle for the lowest possible levels of moderation that don't result in too many users leaving, sadly, because that's how you make money.
> 
> ...


Guess I'll take your word for it then, although wikipedia is biased and I avoid using it whenever possible


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Guess I'll take your word for it then, although wikipedia is biased and I avoid using it whenever possible



When you're reading a wikipedia article you can check the top right logographs. Some articles have quality ratings, or are locked to prevent people from vandalising them. 




The article about 4chan is locked and rates as high quality. 

You can also cross-check for original news reports confirming everything I listed.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> When you're reading a wikipedia article you can check the top right logographs. Some articles have quality ratings, or are locked to prevent people from vandalising them.
> 
> View attachment 88519
> The article about 4chan is locked and rates as high quality.
> ...


Who's rating them tho?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Who's rating them tho?



Click on the logographs to visit pages explaining what they mean.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Click on the logographs to visit pages explaining what they mean.


I mean this other article has exactly the same rating Intelligent design - Wikipedia and Wikipedia co-founder of all people, called it « appallingly biased » Wikipedia Co-Founder Blasts “Appallingly Biased” Wikipedia Entry on Intelligent Design | Evolution News

I find it odd that you dismissed an outlet I linked to because they once made a joke about Atlantis, but you blindly trust wikipedia


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I mean this other article has exactly the same rating Intelligent design - Wikipedia and Wikipedia co-founder of all people, called it « appallingly biased » Wikipedia Co-Founder Blasts “Appallingly Biased” Wikipedia Entry on Intelligent Design | Evolution News
> 
> I find it odd that you dismissed an outlet I linked to because they once made a joke about Atlantis, but you blindly trust wikipedia



'Evolution News' is a creationist website designed to promote the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools. I am surprised you are trusting them to fairly assess a wikipedia article which describes Intelligent Design as pseudoscience (which is correct; real biologists *don't* claim to have any evidence that the science of biology supports any specific religion or creation myth).


Are you a creationist or did you just not notice you were reading a creationist website?

If you dig around their site you'll find articles claiming that it's impossible that biodiversity can arise through natural processes.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Are you a creationist or did you just not notice you were reading a creationist website?


 Neither would matter, all I'm interested in here, is the opinion of wikipedia co-founder on this apparently "certified" article


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 21, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Neither would matter, all I'm interested in here, is the opinion of wikipedia co-founder on this apparently "certified" article



'apparently certified'. 
I wouldn't trust this site, Frank. It's clearly full of false information. If you weren't able to realise this I'm a bit worried. 

As I said, you can read about all the criminal activities I described taking place on 4chan on well-known news networks, if you want to.


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Jun 21, 2020)




----------



## Troj (Jun 21, 2020)

The question of how to best react to and treat big social media sites and forums is a complex one.

Suffice it to say, Facebook's main problems are mainly due to a mix of corporate negligence, apathy, bureaucratic gridlock, and above all, greed, while 4chan's problems are due to it fostering a gleefully anarchic and mean-spirited culture with no accountability and no boundaries.  Neither is "good," mind you, but most people will have a different reaction to willful malice than they will to negligence or even, cold-hearted self-interest.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 21, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Allow me to educate you then. Facebook has over a billion users and most people who use it are using it for normal mundane things like keeping in touch with friends and relatives.
> I don't think they're a particularly _nice_ network, and I think they should do much more to moderate the content on their platform and how the data collected about users is sold, how their profits are taxed etc, personally.
> That's going to require legislation, because if there are laws requiring businesses to do that, they're not going to bother with the expenses unfortunately. They'll settle for the lowest possible levels of moderation that don't result in too many users leaving, sadly, because that's how you make money.
> 
> ...



Most of the controversial actions committed by 4chan can be sourced back to /b/ and /pol/. The other boards aren't known to engage in that level of antisocial behavior.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 21, 2020)

I'd say it's a dumpster fire. From what I understand, it's one of the few sites that don't do anything to uphold any kind of values or standards, so that's where degenerates  will flock together to jerk each other off and share their collection of child porn.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Jun 21, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> I'd say it's a dumpster fire. From what I understand, it's one of the few sites that don't do anything to uphold any kind of values or standards, so that's where degenerates  will flock together to jerk each other off and share their collection of child porn.



The whole site full of stunted weebs spamming anime porn in a fashion they bashed furries/bronies for. I have no idea why they assume anyone will take them seriously, Since it I've heard that hypocrisy is annoying if anthro
characters are the subject of any game.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 22, 2020)

Purplefuzz said:


> The whole site full of stunted weebs spamming anime porn in a fashion they bashed furries/bronies for.



The difference between weebs and furries from what I've seen is that weebs are more conscious of the fact that they are degenerate creeps in the eyes of normal everyday people. There's also less of a potent emphasis on adopting and maintaining the title of "weeb" as an actual core component of their personal identity whereas many furries will quite literally attempt to "come out" to friends and family as a member of the fandom as if they were revealing to their loved ones that they were gay or some shit. I excuse those types of furries for this behavior to an extent; the furry fandom is so heavily laden with LGBT representation that some people in normie space consider it to be intrinsically, or at least superficially, linked with the LGBT community itself. 

Between the two groups though, I prefer weebs _slightly_ more if only because weeb community spaces tend to be a fair bit more libertarian in regards to what sorts of conversation topics, humor styles, and language that they're willing to entertain and tolerate (which means that I'm better able to be myself without incurring the wrath of fifty-something report-happy furries). Furry community spaces are the polar opposite of weeb community spaces: they have a tendency to be *grossly *over-moderated, *way *oversensitive, way too solipsistic, and incredibly effeminate. Gets old getting reprimanded by some overzealous server moderator for saying "retard" or humorously telling some angst-ridden furry teenager that them sperging out over someone asking them to stop spamming the main chat with their depressive episodes is a bad look.

Bronies get roasted because they're like turbo furries: twice as obnoxious, twice as weird, and twice as cringy. From what I've seen, _none _of the major internet subcultures like them. _Fuck_, even furries hate bronies and that's really saying something when you consider how bad furries can be.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 22, 2020)

ASTA said:


> The difference between weebs and furries from what I've seen is that weebs are more conscious of the fact that they are degenerate creeps in the eyes of normal everyday people. There's also less of a potent emphasis on adopting and maintaining the title of "weeb" as an actual core component of their personal identity whereas many furries will quite literally attempt to "come out" to friends and family as a member of the fandom as if they were revealing to their loved ones that they were gay or some shit. I excuse those types of furries for this behavior to an extent; the furry fandom is so heavily laden with LGBT representation that some people in normie space consider it to be intrinsically, or at least superficially, linked with the LGBT community itself.



I have seen just as many non-furries come out about about how they identify as a 13 yr old trapped in a 40 yr old man's body, or act like they're being oppressed when they have their child pornography reported and taken away from them. Just like the people who cried over the Nazi rule. There were 20yr olds failing and repeating their last year of highschool that deliberately targeted freshman. One of the graduates even climbed through a window to 'woo' a girl in my grade, at that time. All cringy weebs comparing their dick sizes to those .99 cent cans of tea like we're supposed to just gush over the thought of it.

I personally wouldn't pick either extreme, since I grew up knowing people of both sides. The girls they tried to woo all pretty much became furries, what with the biting and the constant relations to animals and the groping without consent because they were bicurious but didn't want to use their words and UUUFIWJQWPRKIJWPERJWREerghqwrg. 

My childhood was_ awful_.


----------



## Punkedsolar (Jun 22, 2020)

Purplefuzz said:


> The whole site full of stunted weebs spamming anime porn in a fashion they bashed furries/bronies for.



The defence I have seen is one of the most pathetic ever.  When THEY do it, it's irony, and a joke, man.


----------



## Toasty9399 (Jun 22, 2020)

4chan is another world, theres no way of explaining it. I don’t recommend it, but the only way of seeing how it is, is trying it out. Avoid /b/ though.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 22, 2020)

>> People trying to argue that furry spaces are 'over moderated' and effeminate. 

Because 4chan is a good example of a community that moderates itself properly, _apparently_.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 22, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> >> People trying to argue that furry spaces are 'over moderated' and effeminate.
> 
> Because 4chan is a good example of a community that moderates itself properly, _apparently_.


@TheCynicalViet I think mentioned that they were banned from it for no Reason, so 4chin has this in common with [redacted] forums


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 22, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> @TheCynicalViet I think mentioned that they were banned from it for no Reason, so 4chin has this in common with [redacted] forums



4chan is notorious for being both over-moderated and under-moderated I suppose. 

They're famous for banning people for talking about My Little Pony, but allow people who celebrate homophobic murders or share child pornography to continue posting.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 22, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> 4chan is notorious for being both over-moderated and under-moderated I suppose.
> 
> They're famous for banning people for talking about My Little Pony, but allow people who celebrate homophobic murders or share child pornography to continue posting.


I've heard there's a board dedicated to MLP, saw that in a video by a guy named Whang!


----------



## Azeleon (Jun 22, 2020)

I've honestly only heard bad things about it.
Well except when Pokémon Sword and Shield were about to release, apparently there were leaks posted on 4chan that turned out to be true, so that's one neat thing I remember.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 22, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I've heard there's a board dedicated to MLP, saw that in a video by a guy named Whang!



At first they banned people on certain boards of 4chan automatically if their posts contained the word 'pony', but this caused so many people to be banned that they eventually decided to have a dedicated board instead. 

So there'll have been a period on 4chan where if you typed 'In Lord of the Rings 'conies' are a pony-like horse that hobbits ride' you'd have got an automatic ban. 

But typing a detailed confession about how you fantasise about raping your sister would have been a-okay.


----------



## ExoSoldier (Jun 22, 2020)

The only thing I heard from it was that pridefall thing.
It probably has a "good side", but I'm not sure...


----------



## Punkedsolar (Jun 22, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> >> People trying to argue that furry spaces are 'over moderated' and effeminate.
> Because 4chan is a good example of a community that moderates itself properly, _apparently_.



Also finding it a bit odd that we can have some threads talking about how weird it is there aren't that many women in furry and others mentioning being_ feminine as a negative._


----------



## Purplefuzz (Jun 22, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> 4chan is notorious for being both over-moderated and under-moderated I suppose.
> 
> They're famous for banning people for talking about My Little Pony, but allow people who celebrate homophobic murders or share child pornography to continue posting.



They've banned people for being furry despite having no history of being such. Because "Posting kyrastal/pokemon/digimon" enough in their mind to assume it someones fursonna. They don't even ban racists despite it being aginst the rules in SFW boards so cue a 500 word reply with the N word for no reason?.


----------



## Princess Flufflebutt (Jun 22, 2020)

I used to lurk there back in the day. It's shit.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 23, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> >> People trying to argue that furry spaces are 'over moderated' and effeminate.
> 
> Because 4chan is a good example of a community that moderates itself properly, _apparently_.



I mean, I never said 4chan was an example of a community that properly moderates itself. It is however a community where you can talk about things that you could not get away with talking about in today's incarnation of polite society.

...then again, I'm starting to think that my beef with how furry social spaces are governed has less to do with them being overly restrictive and more with how my own personality (particularly my speaking style and sense of humor) and more socially conservative viewpoints are borderline toxic to your archetypal furry. I fit in more with 4chan-types because I have more in common with them than I do with members of the furry fandom I guess.

It's a shame to be honest. I adore furry media. Furries themselves though? Eh.



Punkedsolar said:


> Also finding it a bit odd that we can have some threads talking about how weird it is there aren't that many women in furry and others mentioning being_ feminine as a negative._



It isn't really weird when you actually take the time to deconstruct the fandom's overarching culture and a few of the demographics that constitute it.


The furry fandom can be briefly characterized as a subculture whose members exhibit higher-than-average levels of autism (a whopping ten to _fifteen_ times higher than the manifestation rate within the general population actually); it's ranks are predominately male as well.
The autism bit is important. Women find socially awkward dudes unattractive, creepy, and just downright unnerving to be around. Every dude who has dealt with or attempted to deal with women romantically knows this. The rare crop of men who have had the vaunted fortune of bedding hundreds of women definitely know this on almost intuitive level. Autistic dudes* radiate* social awkwardness. It's an unfortunate part of their day-to-day existence. _It's a defining characteristic of their psychiatric condition. _
The furry fandom is awash in pornographic content. Porn consumption is a primarily male enterprise. _Women cannot stand porn_. They view it less than men, many of them consider it cheating if their male significant others view it, and the war on porn in the West is primarily being waged and led by women. The most popular furry art websites and social services, such as FA or e621, are saturated with sexual content. F-list is effectively ground-zero for dudes looking to e-fuck. Whenever a novel anthropomorphic character appears on the radar of the collective furry art scene (such as Loona from the Helluva Boss pilot episode or Belladonna from the Trials of Mana remake), furry artists inevitably start pumping out vast quantities of porn of that character. Popular or at least eminent furry content creators like Kothorix (who has been vocal in his critical view of furry culture over the years) literally cannot resist making at least one video that centers on his unconventional sexual attraction to dragons. Granted, that video was made partially in jest, but Kothorix's unorthodox sense of humor is quite often lost on most people. The 1.6k dislikes were probably submitted by those who just aren't privy to his particular fashion of funny.
In essence, we have a subculture that's staffed by legions of perpetually oversexed men with trash-tier social skills. I'm sure women will be clamoring to get a piece of this.

But yeah no, this fandom isn't unwelcoming to women. Tons of furries would love to have more women sign up for the furry life. It's just unattractive to them. Most subcultures that have a substantial male following are unattractive to women.

Anime.

Boxing.

Trains.

The FPS video game genre.

Cars.

Basketball.

Golf.

Doesn't matter. For one reason or another, women aren't interested in niche hobbies or subcultures that are widely popular with men. Same thing naturally applies to men's assessment of and participation in majority-female hobbies and social domains.

...which is totally fine. Not every culture/subculture/social group settings/etc needs to have mandatory 50/50 gender splits or even a stronger numerical presence of one particular gender for that matter. I don't even think the furry fandom would even necessarily "improve" all that much if a dramatic influx of women into the fandom were to unfold. In fact, you're more likely to see the more unsavory aspects of femininity such as the suppression of male sexual expression (as we see with the neo-Puritan values espoused by modern feminism which itself is really just female thought in power), the almost guaranteed explosion in the number of sexual harassment allegations (both true and false) levied against (mostly) straight male and bisexual male furries by female ones, and a gross augmentation of the hugbox culture that most furry social spaces are founded upon.

As for femininity itself being bad? No. That would be nonsensical for a wide assortment of reasons. But promoting feminine modes of thinking or behavior among the general male population is a terrible transgression that can have detrimental effects on those men and greater society as a whole. In the case of male furries, it just results in a lot of them being very whiny and far too emotional over the most trivial of things and being under the erroneous impression that the world is going to have a care for their otherwise minuscule life problems.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Jun 23, 2020)

ASTA said:


> ..then again, I'm starting to think that my beef with how furry social spaces are governed has less to do with them being overly restrictive and more with how my own personality (particularly my speaking style and sense of humor) and more socially conservative viewpoints are borderline toxic to your archetypal furry. I fit in more with 4chan-types because I have more in common with them than I do with members of the furry fandom I guess.
> 
> It's a shame to be honest. I adore furry media. Furries themselves though? Eh.



This sounds very very close to you being upset the community is left leaning and has a high LGBT/disabled subset. Ignoring how LGBT/Disabled right wingers are seen within many Con based groups, Go be openly trans on any conservative hub then watch the fireworks show.


----------



## Jaejima (Jun 23, 2020)

I've brushed a few times with 4 chan in the past.

I'd like to keep that count to just a few, to be frank.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 23, 2020)

ASTA said:


> The furry fandom is awash in pornographic content. Porn consumption is a primarily male enterprise. *Women cannot stand porn.* They view it less than men, many of them consider it cheating if their male significant others view it, and the war on porn in the West is primarily being waged and led by women. The most popular furry art websites and social services, such as FA or e621, are saturated with sexual content. F-list is effectively ground-zero for dudes looking to e-fuck. Whenever a novel anthropomorphic character appears on the radar of the collective furry art scene (such as Loona from the Helluva Boss pilot episode or Belladonna from the Trials of Mana remake), furry artists inevitably start pumping out vast quantities of porn of that character. Popular or at least eminent furry content creators like Kothorix (who has been vocal in his critical view of furry culture over the years) literally cannot resist making at least one video that centers on his unconventional sexual attraction to dragons. Granted, that video was made partially in jest, but Kothorix's unorthodox sense of humor is quite often lost on most people. The 1.6k dislikes were probably submitted by those who just aren't privy to his particular fashion of funny.


Considering how many women browse and are FEATURED IN porn, this is just silly to even say. I think it's a matter of waiting for an older, crabbier generation to die out at this point. Not wrong about that F-list thing though. I've never met another female that used it. These dudes got all hot and bothered and most of them couldn't stand to know they were interacting with another male OOC. XD



ASTA said:


> In essence, we have a subculture that's staffed by legions of perpetually oversexed men with trash-tier social skills. I'm sure women will be clamoring to get a piece of this.
> 
> But yeah no, this fandom isn't unwelcoming to women. Tons of furries would love to have more women sign up for the furry life. It's just unattractive to them. Most subcultures that have a substantial male following are unattractive to women.
> 
> ...



Not gonna lie, for me it's the extremists that take over the group that push me away from anything. Some of these things just put me to sleep (cars, sports, yawn), but even if I preferred FPS over RPGs and MOBAs, there'd still still be the issue of toxic people targeting me if my gender became apparent to them. In no way do I make this a statement when I play, and I've dealt with highschool and I've played league so trash talking does nothing to me. But when I play an FPS and they have the option to vote me out of a game for 'teh lulz' or because they just feel like being a douche, there isn't much I can do. I don't feel like sitting in a loading screen all day thinking 'maybe this will be the one?' so I uninstall and look for something new.

Maybe girls just had to find other hobbies because they weren't included in the first place? I know when I was growing up, the women were to keep to their hobbies while the men lazed around in front of the T.V. Or how boy scouts they learned how to survive in the wilderness, whereas girl scouts sold cookies and did nothing fun or interesting,_ ever_.



ASTA said:


> ...which is totally fine. Not every culture/subculture/social group settings/etc needs to have mandatory 50/50 gender splits or even a stronger numerical presence of one particular gender for that matter. I don't even think the furry fandom would even necessarily "improve" all that much if a dramatic influx of women into the fandom were to unfold. In fact, you're more likely to see the more unsavory aspects of femininity such as the suppression of male sexual expression (as we see with the neo-Puritan values espoused by modern feminism which itself is really just female thought in power), the almost guaranteed explosion in the number of sexual harassment allegations (both true and false) levied against (mostly) straight male and bisexual male furries by female ones, and a gross augmentation of the hugbox culture that most furry social spaces are founded upon.
> 
> As for femininity itself being bad? No. That would be nonsensical for a wide assortment of reasons. But promoting feminine modes of thinking or behavior among the general male population is a terrible transgression that can have detrimental effects on those men and greater society as a whole. In the case of male furries, it just results in a lot of them being very whiny and far too emotional over the most trivial of things and being under the erroneous impression that the world is going to have a care for their otherwise minuscule life problems.



You have to remember, a lot of furries are actually gay or bi! XD

But really, every female I grew up with turned into a furry, and over the recent years, they've all decided they're going to explore all kinds of gender and sexuality labels. I've interacted with (probably) equal amounts of biological men and biological women, here and on the main site at least, but most females (regardless of their gender identity) might advertise or select something completely different because it's the internet and accurate statistics don't matter to them. So I think that might be contradicting your mental statistics.

I don't think an influx of female fans would make a difference. It's not like we're herding them behind a fence and announcing their arrival to alert the predators and desperate alike.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 23, 2020)

'Women don't like porn'. 

Oh sweet Summer child.


----------



## Attaman (Jun 23, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> 'Women don't like porn'.
> 
> Oh sweet Summer child.


I mean, there’s also the whole implied baggage of “autism is male specific / predominant” tangent too, and the whole “Women are an enigma that avoid male-crowded places for opaque reasons that menfolk can only guess at” bit. The latter particularly humorous when, again, not too long ago effeminate was used as an implicit drag / insult / negative qualifier and  it was explicitly stated that they believe more women in the fandom could only make it worse.


----------



## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 23, 2020)

My thoughts? "No". Just "no".


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 23, 2020)

Attaman said:


> I mean, there’s also the whole implied baggage of “autism is male specific / predominant” tangent too, and the whole “Women are an enigma that avoid male-crowded places for opaque reasons that menfolk can only guess at” bit. The latter particularly humorous when, again, not too long ago effeminate was used as an implicit drag / insult / negative qualifier and  it was explicitly stated that they believe more women in the fandom could only make it worse.



I can't stop laughing. 

'The rare crop of men who have had the vaunted fortune of bedding hundreds of women definitely know this on almost intuitive level'

'promoting feminine modes of thinking or behavior among the general male population is a terrible transgression'


----------



## Purplefuzz (Jun 23, 2020)

I've gotten -8 before on Reddit by morons assuming how a women works?. It crazy how they go quiet when 95% of the "big titty character" are done by stright women.


----------



## Punkedsolar (Jun 24, 2020)

Welp, someone hasn't been to A03.  There are literally thousands of pieces of porn there produced by women.  Maybe tens of thousands by this point.

Not sure if I have a feminine mode of thinking or behaviour.  I leave that up to you guys to decide.


----------



## Skittles (Jun 24, 2020)

I am still of the opinion it should be nuked into the ground.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 24, 2020)

ManicTherapsid said:


>


And this is why we love the place!


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 25, 2020)

Purplefuzz said:


> This sounds very very close to you being upset the community is left leaning and has a high LGBT/disabled subset. Ignoring how LGBT/Disabled right wingers are seen within many Con based groups, Go be openly trans on any conservative hub then watch the fireworks show.



I'm not upset that the community leans left or that it has a high LGBT/disabled subset. If that were the case, I wouldn't be on this forum.

I _do _get irritated by how detached many furries are from reality, however.


----------



## Sharg (Jun 25, 2020)

I like it. It's one of the last bastions of the good old times of the internet before it was ruined by Facebook and social media. The anonymous aspect of it improves it, as even many forums back in the day evolved into popularity contests with select cliques and power hungry mods. It's one of the last places on the internet that allows for free speech. Yeah, that'll include some unsavory stuff, but free speech is still better than the censored corporate social media.

You just can't take it seriously. 99% of the posts are in jest, even if they talk about extreme things. I like the varied amount of boards where you can discuss just about anything and each board is like it's own microcosm. I feel like most people look at 4chan and think it's just /b/ and /pol/, when there's really good discussions on /v/ and /vg/ about games, /x/ about the paranormal etc. Even /pol/ is a good source of news when something major happens because they'll link to sources you wont find anywhere else. Its up to you to figure out what to take seriously and what's nonsense. 

I'll take it over reddit with it's power hungry mods and intense censorship anyday.


----------



## Attaman (Jun 26, 2020)

I'mma be straight with y'all, your token "not every place is /pol/ or /b/" rhetoric and defensive mask falls apart the second you then go out of your way to justify "Actually those boards aren't that bad, and honestly I'm not only fine with but would rather have Nazis, Doxxing, and Slurs than I would moderation that does any sort of work".

"Hey now, it's only one board of the forum that openly cheers for mass shooters. I mean yeah, they also cross-post on other boards and are only hammered when they get explicit enough that a Moderator literally cannot ignore them anymore, and they use the site as a pipeline to radicalize and recruit people into sharing similar sentiments / going to even more extreme sites, but you can't use that brush to paint the whole board."

Also I can't help but notice that most of the defense of 4chan comes after 8chan was buried in a fucking ditch like it deserved, and that beforehand a number of the same voices were calling it some Leftist Shithole ruined by m00t and his chase of pussy. Almost as if the site's just being used as a back-up because, surprise of surprises, it turns out that when you shut down shitholes it doesn't simply lead to the creation of even larger, better dug shitholes but instead a lot of roaches scurrying about looking for old stomping grounds.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 26, 2020)

Attaman said:


> "Hey now, it's only one board of the forum that openly cheers for mass shooters. I mean yeah, they also cross-post on other boards and are only hammered when they get explicit enough that a Moderator literally cannot ignore them anymore, and they use the site as a pipeline to radicalize and recruit people into sharing similar sentiments / going to even more extreme sites, but you can't use that brush to paint the whole board."



What political ideology/values would you rather have these people adopt?


----------



## hara-surya (Jun 26, 2020)

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 26, 2020)

ASTA said:


> What political ideology/values would you rather have these people adopt?



This is too hilarious. 

'_So what_ if they celebrate mass murderers? What values would _you_ have them adopt?'


So what if somebody sniffs their sister's panties? Whose panties would _you_ have them sniff?


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 26, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> This is too hilarious.
> 
> '_So what_ if they celebrate mass murderers? What values would _you_ have them adopt?'
> 
> ...



Most of 4chan doesn't celebrate mass murderers.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 26, 2020)

ASTA said:


> Most of 4chan doesn't celebrate mass murderers.



Most incels don't sniff their sisters' panties.

I'm pointing out how weird it was that your response to people celebrating mass murder is 'well what ideology would_ you_ have them practice?'

Personally I'd have them practice an ideology of moon-worship, build a space-ship, and leave earth.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 26, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Most incels don't sniff their sisters' panties.
> 
> I'm pointing out how weird it was that your response to people celebrating mass murder is 'well what ideology would_ you_ have them practice?'
> 
> Personally I'd have them practice an ideology of moon-worship, build a space-ship, and leave earth.



I have a feeling that the main reason so many people like you dislike 4chan is because it is home to tons of individuals who offend your worldview in one or more ways, _not _that it's a den of people who condone mass-murderers. You and everyone else who sports a raging hateboner for 4chan (which is probably the majority of this forum at this point) are hopefully intelligent enough to know that the statistical probability of 4chan possessing a strong majority of people who support the wholesale slaughter of mass groups of people is zero. Even if it did at one point harbor such persons, those people were ousted by the more "rational" and "good" elements of 4chan's community (which unfortunately led to the conceptualization and the eventual realization of 8chan). 

There is a reason why 4chan is still up and 8chan's existence is mainly confined to the dark web. If the former were as bad as the latter, 4chan would have been sundered by strong government action long ago. 

Look, I get it: 4channers are rowdy, curse and use slurs liberally, and possess no qualms about critiquing protected groups. They're not as politically correct as you'd probably like them to be. _Most of the planet isn't as politically correct as you'd probably like it to be_. But I think you see these people---even the droves who have explicitly spoken out against the mass-murdering psychopaths---not just as a collection of uncouth brutes, but as societal and ideological threats as well. They could potentially get other people to think that it is acceptable to be like them, _and that really rubs you, Attaman, and the other usual suspects of this board the wrong way._

In order to combat these people and their diabolical influence, you and yours turn to making disingenuous and exaggerated claims about these people in an effort to convince ignorant neutral onlookers that 4chan users are irredeemably bad. You see similar tactics employed by the alt-right, like when they deliberately butcher crime statistics and use deceptive wordage to make it seem like that America's black population, as a whole, is directly responsible for half of the criminal activity in the US.

But on your end? It's accusations of widespread nazism being practiced and claims of unfettered doxxing being committed. You laud your ethical framework as unequivocally superior, and that if said neutral onlookers do not subscribe to your general way of thinking then they are morally flawed humans at best and enablers of mass-murdering kiddy-diddling incels at worst. 

Truthfully, I don't think you'll be happy until all of these people, which includes those who have the audacity to not believe that _everything_ is bad about 4chan (or really _anything _that your side determines to be "problematic" for that matter), are locked up somewhere or otherwise prevented from interacting with mainstream society, either digitally or physically, until they submit to your will. I honestly don't think that you even see them as fully human.  

You even said it yourself in your previous post: you'd prefer it if these types of people would just decamp to the moon already. Damn that's wild. 

And this is all a shame really. Ever since the more uncut and "rough-around-the-edges" users were demographically replaced by today's FAF'ers or simply aged out of the fandom and by extension out of using FAF, you've morphed into a finger-waggling turbo-nanny who seemingly prunes up at the mere possibility that someone, somewhere, doesn't think like you or has the audacity to not believe that the existence of 5 bad apples isn't enough to condemn the other 95 to eternal damnation. 

You used to be cooler back in 2015. You weren't as self-righteous, you were less preachy, and you weren't as rude as you are today. Here, you're not being an insufferable snarky douchebag like how you've been acting towards me for the past few days. You're mostly just there to have a quality little anthropology conversation with a few forum members. Sure you have a few shit posters like Zerig doing what he did best back then, but it didn't take away from the overall theme of that I gathered from that thread: the fact that so many different personalities could coexist for the most part without beating one another over the head with "-ism" accusations or someone getting caught up in their feelings because someone said a no-no word or uttered a no-no phrase or had the wrong opinion or whatever. 

I understand that people change over time. I used to be an awful shit poster five years ago. 

But the old Fallowfox was better. While that Fallowfox and I didn't see eye-to-eye on things, he at least had the common courtesy to not laugh at me all the time.

I liked that Fallowfox. 

If possible, I'd like that Fallowfox back.

This new one sucks.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 26, 2020)

So, an 800 word reply to my joke; I clearly touched a nerve.

I've spoken before on this forum about how I feel I came very close to being socialised into radical beliefs, mainly as a consequence of being recommended youtube channels by other furries, and that I feel fortunate to have stepped back from that precipice.
I'll post my experience of that in a spoiler


Spoiler



In my case I watched Thunderf00t videos on Youtube when I was first using FAF. For years I deliberately ignored his extensive anti-feminist videos because I didn't want to become that kind of man.
When I left home for the first time though- that was enough for me to start watching them, as I began exploring things I previously hadn't in many aspects of my life. After time a user recommended Sargon of Akkad's channel to me- which in retrospect was a pipe-line to the alt-right, and in a space of months I was well on my way to being inculcated.
I was fortunate that my own experience on that slope ended without me becoming a devotee of donald trump, or a person who despised religious minorities. When I saw Donald Trump suggest drawing up a list of Muslim citizens, for surveillance purposes, the obvious comparison to Hitler drawing up a list of Jews came to my mind, and I realised the nature of the beast, what I had been sliding towards; a collection of unkind attitudes that enabled the worst prejudices humanity has to offer.

It was a complete awakening for me. I hit the 'reset' button and took the beliefs that I had accumulated in that time off of the table- returning to the set of beliefs I had when I was 18, and then began re-building.


Users like @Troj @RedSavage and @quoting_mungo provided help by challenging the often nasty ideas I presented, and I'm grateful to them for doing it.
I might cringe at myself in retrospect, but I'm a much happier person having stepped back from that edge. I continue to post in part because I want to prevent other people from sliding down that same slippery slope I did.


----------



## Attaman (Jun 26, 2020)

ASTA said:


> I have a feeling that the main reason so many people like you dislike 4chan is because it is home to tons of individuals who offend your worldview in one or more ways, _not _that it's a den of people who condone mass-murderers.


 "You're probably faking the dislike of mass murderers. It's because they aren't Leftists like you, isn't it?"

I mean, if that's your take-away from this sort of critique leveled at 4chan, that's your take away. But I think you shouldn't be surprised by the conclusions people are going to draw when that's your take-away.



ASTA said:


> Look, I get it: 4channers are rowdy, curse and use slurs liberally, and possess no qualms about critiquing protected groups. They're not as politically correct as you'd probably like them to be.


 Again, if the second sentence is the sort of take-away you take from the first, that's entirely on you. But... uh, again: You should not be surprised by the conclusions most people are going to draw. Among which, one of the more prominent ones is "Oh, that sort of behavior is not only not seen as a deal-breaker but acceptable / opposition *against *it is what's abnormal, strange, and / or worthy of discussion".



ASTA said:


> They could potentially get other people to think that it is acceptable to be like them, _and that really rubs you, Attaman, and the other usual suspects of this board the wrong way._


 I mean, I want you to consider for one moment the sort of behavior you're trying to implicate it's... inappropriate, or nefarious, or other loaded words / terms, to hold unfavorable thoughts towards? Because I'm going to be blunt that you ain't as subtle as you think you are.

Behaviors which, among other things _*you yourself have explicitly stated and acknowledged*_, include "Tolerating the company of Neo-Nazis, their ilk, and others who would gleefully cheer for the latest mass shooting of a minority demographic"; "Casually and prolifically using slurs"; "Frequently punch down at disenfranchised / disadvantaged demographics, to the point that it's _*not always immediately obvious when the aforementioned Neo-Nazis, their ilk, and cheer-ers for mass-shooters have broken free of 'containment' boards*_"; "Are prone to 'rowdy' behavior" (which, in the implicit context of this discussion, is pretty blatantly stuff like online and offline harassment, doxxing, et al)...



ASTA said:


> In order to combat these people and their diabolical influence, you and yours turn to making disingenuous and exaggerated claims about these people in an effort to convince ignorant neutral onlookers that 4chan users are irredeemably bad.


 _*You literally - explicitly - are participating in a discussion wherein you and multiple other users have actively stated nothing is being exaggerated, but that you have to take the good with the bad*_. There was a time you had a chance to try to (disingenuously, I might add) play the "You're making this up you meanies" card, and that was _*before*_ you played the "So what if they do?" one, not after.



ASTA said:


> You see similar tactics employed by the alt-right, like when they deliberately butcher crime statistics and use deceptive wordage to make it seem like that America's black population, as a whole, is directly responsible for half of the criminal activity in the US.


 "The Alt-Right and the Left aren't so different, after all." Ah, we're at the Both Sides (tm) point of the discussion.



ASTA said:


> You laud your ethical framework as unequivocally superior, and that if said neutral onlookers do not subscribe to your general way of thinking then they are morally flawed humans at best and enablers of mass-murdering kiddy-diddling incels at worst.


 I mean, this may come as a shock to you, but a good way to avoid a reputation of being a site that enables kiddy-diddling, mass-murderer endorsers, Neo-Nazis, and other such crowds... is _*not to say *_"We'll tolerate you so long as you keep to your containment boards. And by that I mean only break containment every now and then. But don't worry we won't punish you or act even when you do. Also the containment won't be enforced either."

It didn't work when we had people on here try to justify the Pedophilia on 8chan with "It's not Pedophilia it's ephebohrgablarbleICan'tEvenBeAssedToFinishThisSentenceOrWord", it doesn't work now when literally a ten second browse of the /pol/ catalog will put to bed the argument right quick.



ASTA said:


> (or really _anything _that your side determines to be "problematic" for that matter),


 Ah, we're at the "Are slurs and anti-minority sentiment or the like really that bad?" point of the thread.



ASTA said:


> And this is all a shame really. Ever since the more uncut and "rough-around-the-edges" users were demographically replaced by today's FAF'ers


 For starters: Look at my join date. Second: If you're going to lament the absence of users who have since been ousted as Proud Boys, have gone on to flee to Phoenixed and make Nazi memes / talk about how FAFers just don't understand the Degeneracy of the Homosexual Menace; have explicitly tried to blackmail users and also openly admitted to participating in groups like the Furry Raiders; Users responsible for such loving comments as "When did I ever say I respected or support Trans people?" when being caught actively and purposefully misgendering people; Users who responded to a mass shooting at a synagogue by mocking Jewish users; et al... I mean, again, that's _*entirely your decision*_, but I am again astounded that the "Free Speech allows you to speak your mind, it doesn't protect you from consequences of your actions" bit continually eludes you and the only reason you can possibly think people might be reacting this way is some sort of shadowy cabal of Leftist thought-police out to oppress Free Society.



ASTA said:


> You used to be cooler back in 2015. You weren't as self-righteous, you were less preachy, and you weren't as rude as you are today. Here, you're not being an insufferable snarky douchebag like how you've been acting towards me for the past few days.


 Ah, yes. I remember the age of 2015 on FAF. It's when we had such gems as "Users openly arguing that not only did Anita Sarkeesian make up all the death threats about her, but they totally would have been justified as a target of as much if they did exist". And people arguing that sex workers deserve to get the full beat-stick of the law because "Fucking Prostitutes ain't got no rights". Those were the good days.

... Wait, did I say good days? I meant fucking terrible, and there's a _*pretty easy to guess reason*_ why there's a fuck-huge gap in my post history from around 2013 until 2017-2018. And I say this as somebody from the old crowd who not only actively participated in a lot of the pre-#GG bad shit but actively fed / fueled a ton of it.


----------



## Troj (Jun 27, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Users like @Troj @RedSavage and @quoting_mungo provided help by challenging the often nasty ideas I presented, and I'm grateful to them for doing it.
> I might cringe at myself in retrospect, but I'm a much happier person having stepped back from that edge. I continue to post in part because I want to prevent other people from sliding down that same slippery slope I did.



That's very kind and heartening of you to say! I went through my own cringe phase, too, where I bought into some bad/half-baked ideas and opinions.  What matters is being willing to learn and grow in response to new information and new experiences.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 27, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> So, an 800 word reply to my joke; I clearly touched a nerve.
> 
> I've spoken before on this forum about how I feel I came very close to being socialised into radical beliefs, mainly as a consequence of being recommended youtube channels by other furries, and that I feel fortunate to have stepped back from that precipice.
> I'll post my experience of that in a spoiler
> ...



Well, I guess your opposition towards viewing Youtube videos for political commentary makes more sense now. Thanks for explaining things. I appreciate it.

Never heard of Thunderf00t until today though. I might have to look into him to see what he's about.

Also, I know it isn't worth much now since it's all done and over with, but you seemed fine enough to me back then. Maybe you got significantly worse several years ahead of 2015 and I have this idyllic interpretation of you before your gradual radicalization came to a head.

Red was cool. Shame what happened to her and Milo. She was an excellent writer, a very good person, and fiercely intelligent, but I feel like Milo never got an honest chance to see the brighter side of life before his untimely death. He always came off as chronically depressed and lonely.

No one should die like that.



Attaman said:


> For starters: Look at my join date. Second: If you're going to lament the absence of users who have since been ousted as Proud Boys, have gone on to flee to *Phoenixed*---



Wait, _that's _where a lot of the old users went to? I wonder if some of my friends and acquaintances still post there.

EDIT: Man, that place may be on life support but it's _way _more laid back than this joint could _ever _hope to be.

I'm out lol.


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Jun 27, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Most incels don't sniff their sisters' panties.
> 
> I'm pointing out how weird it was that your response to people celebrating mass murder is 'well what ideology would_ you_ have them practice?'
> 
> Personally I'd have them practice an ideology of moon-worship, build a space-ship, and leave earth.


The first two sentences ew the last ehhhh how about worship the sun so when they get near it they burn up in it.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 27, 2020)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> The first two sentences ew the last ehhhh how about worship the sun so when they get near it they burn up in it.



Frankly I want to build a time machine so that I can go back and catapult 20-year-old me into the ocean! x3


----------



## Troj (Jun 27, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Frankly I want to build a time machine so that I can go back and catapult 20-year-old me into the ocean! x3



I think it's a bit suspicious or strange when somebody doesn't want to yeet their younger self into the ocean at some level! 

I feel bad for the Zeds and the Alphas that a lot of their cringe is going to be immortalized on the Internet.

On the other note, I honestly wish we could go back to the sweet halcyon days when shitposting was just shitposting and jokes were just jokes, and you could trust that, say, an edgy Holocaust joke wasn't meant to be taken seriously, because Nazis, white supremacists, conspiracy theorists, and wannabe mass murderers were all safely outside of the Overton Window. I wish I could go back to my simple and straightforward "free speech is free speech" stance from the days of old. I wish I didn't have to be such a fucking drag or complete social justice warrior sometimes. But, the world's much more complicated now than it was when I was a kid, and I feel I have an ethical and intellectual responsibility to rise to that challenge.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Jun 27, 2020)

Holy shit a old FAFer crying he can't be a hateful joke?. Can this thread get any more stupid. lol


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 28, 2020)

I think it's very safe to assume that most of the people that cater to these sites (with less moderation or restrictions) is simply for the drama that comes with it. And whatever validation they get from it. 
Otherwise people are peacefully discussing things and that just can't be tolerated!!!


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Jun 28, 2020)

It's a garbage website.


----------



## ZaraphayxRedux (Jul 7, 2020)

Attaman said:


> "
> For starters: Look at my join date. Second: If you're going to lament the absence of users who have since been ousted as Proud Boys, *have gone on to flee to Phoenixed and make Nazi memes / talk about how FAFers just don't understand the Degeneracy of the Homosexual Menace*; have explicitly tried to blackmail users and also openly admitted to participating in groups like the Furry Raiders; Users responsible for such loving comments as "When did I ever say I respected or support Trans people?" when being caught actively and purposefully misgendering people; Users who responded to a mass shooting at a synagogue by mocking Jewish users; et al... I mean, again, that's _entirely your decision_, but I am again astounded that the "Free Speech allows you to speak your mind, it doesn't protect you from consequences of your actions" bit continually eludes you and the only reason you can possibly think people might be reacting this way is some sort of shadowy cabal of Leftist thought-police out to oppress Free Society.



The only person I can think about who did/is doing that on Phoenixed is Amiir because he's a retarded spazzoid. 90% of the content was completely harmless shitposting until Trump got elected and people couldn't keep the sickening need to share their misinformed, sophomoric political views off of a forum for people pretending to be dogs on the internet.

Phoenixed died because there was a half-dozen users that didn't like me and quit in a huff because I didn't take it sitting down when a schizo pedophile accused me of being an accessory to sexual assault because she didn't like my politics, and for some reason this sick and depraved individual had a magnetism that sucked in a ton of very lonely people. This accusation came out of nowhere shortly after I PURGED THE MOTHERFUCKER WHO WAS PREYING ON FEMALE FORUM USERS (including her) FROM MY CHAT AND GATHERED EVIDENCE THAT LED TO HIS BAN FROM THE FORUM.

Between that and the armchair political pundits it just wasn't a fun place to be anymore and everyone stopped using it to bullshit with each other on Discord instead.

You should go look up my post history on my account before it got banned from here the first time. I'll take my L for being a cringe teenager, but I also talked a lot of shit about what a hostile and shitty place FAF was (especially to new users), that's why we clowned on this place as it exists now; because 2013-15 FAF would have slit it's wrists if it could see what it would become in 5 years time.

Ironically, all of the most hostile, toxic, and terminally miserable people from that era of FAF are now vociferous SJW try-hards who clout-chase on twitter and are literally too stupid to tell the difference between satire and sincerity.


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Jul 7, 2020)

How come everytime people say they hate 4chan the channers come out in droves defending their hellsite and acting like posting on it is some noble stance against political correctness?

I like reddit and tumblr but I'll admit those websites suck ass. Never in a million years would I write long winded speeches about how I'm justified in being on that site and how its the last bastion of free speech on the internet.

It makes me wonder if you channers have like....hobbies and stuff. I mean you have to have some kind of hobby or job to post about on the forum at all. People with actual things to do in their life wouldn't really waste that time trying to defend there weird anonymous nazi/pedo site. And no amount of "that's not EVERYONE on the site" is really going to change 4chans reputation amongst "_normies_" (I feel lame just having to type that word.)


----------



## TyraWadman (Jul 8, 2020)

I mean... if people really hated FAF so much, they're more than welcome to leave and stick to the boards they _do_ enjoy...
_Instead of reaffirming why so many people dislike 4Chan and its under-moderated community. _Not to mention, if we were just like 4-chan, what would be the point in having two? There would be no diversity.

I do think a lot of people need to know when to take offense though. If someone changes their gender every week, I certainly wouldn't want someone to think I was misgendering someone just because I didn't take the time to follow their entire conversation history. If someone uses the word Degenerate, I don't see how it's being homophobic. I certainly didn't think Geralt was being homophobic as he cursed under his breath after finding the tortured/mutilated bodies of the prostitutes. The dude seemed pretty immoral to me. It's especially exhausting to remember EVERYONE's label like it's your responsibility. It's like telling me to memorize everyone's profile info and hope it's filled out/up to date, but no one can take the time to remember anything about me to know I wasn't being malicious in the first place.

I really do think people need to remember how to relax and realize not everything is an attack, but I think they need to relax as much as 4-chan likes to. I see nothing wrong with expressing standards, especially when free speech hasn't actually been limited offline. I would prefer to partake in a community that doesn't encourage/romanticize things like Nazi's. I already grew up with one of those and I already deal with enough injustice based on the face I was born with.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 10, 2020)

ZaraphayxRedux said:


> schizo pedophile


She's not a pedophile and I won't have one of the most understanding people I've ever met slandered like this. You don't understand half of what goes on in her head.

Also like half the users quit that had issues with you had *legitimate* issues with you; it wasn't on them. You can be extremely narcissistic and lacking in empathy and understanding of others at times. If half a userbase leaves please at least *consider* you might be at fault on some level.


ZaraphayxRedux said:


> also talked a lot of shit about what a hostile and shitty place FAF was (especially to new users


The hugbox culture that was avoided back then came at the higher degree of bullying of people who just don't know any better. If new FAF is bad, old FAF certainly isn't the stellar place everyone claims it was.
Arguably that's part of why Phoenix died. People were allowed to be grating and shit talk each other which created a really hostile environment to be a part of, even for users who wanted to avoid the hugbox culture that permeates large portions of the furry sphere.

Also Attaman was referencing how Ckiimir posted some homophobic stuff here, got banned, and then went on Phoenix to complain about it relatively recently I think; I don't think he was specifically complaining about Phoenixed on the whole, though I'm sure he thinks ill of it.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jul 10, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> You're so incredibly, unendingly narcissistic whilst at the same time lacking any sort of significant empathy towards the people around you. Half the forum leaves blaming you and you believe its all *their* fault the forum died?



I don't know anything about that first half, but if a forum collapsed over one singular person for anything, it must've had a terribly weak structure to begin with.
After visiting for a few minutes, it seems pretty deserted, and the alleged discord isn't any better.
Maybe they're just mad that people are growing up and moving on?
Then they'd be alone.
_So very alone...!_


----------



## ZaraphayxRedux (Jul 11, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> She's not a pedophile and I won't have one of the most understanding people I've ever met slandered like this. You don't understand half of what goes on in her head.



Where was this indignation when she flat out lied about me for attention? Rushing to defend vile, derranged people because they were nice to you isn't a virtuous act you sanctimonious coward.



> Also like half the users quit that had issues with you had *legitimate* issues with you; it wasn't on them.



I don't think you're in any position to determine what makes other people's personal gripes legitimate. 

The arrogance and self-assuredness you display on a frighteningly regular basis while always being wrong is incredibly funny given your next incisive insight into the mind of an internet stranger:



> You can be extremely narcissistic and lacking in empathy and understanding of others at times. If half a userbase leaves please at least *consider* you might be at fault on some level.



See below, you're one of these.



> literally too stupid to tell the difference between satire and sincerity.



Believe me I understand people VERY WELL. It's what makes it effortless to get under your skin.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 11, 2020)

ZaraphayxRedux said:


> See below, you're one of these.
> Believe me I understand people VERY WELL. It's what makes it effortless to get under your skin.


oh no i already knew it was an act cause every once in a while you make an effortpost
its just
"ironic shitposting is still shitposting"


ZaraphayxRedux said:


> Where was this indignation when she flat out lied about me for attention


i legitimately don't know what you're referring to but if she did that that's pretty shitty of her


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Jul 11, 2020)




----------



## ZaraphayxRedux (Jul 11, 2020)

TrishaCat said:


> oh no i already knew it was an act cause every once in a while you make an effortpost
> its just
> "ironic shitposting is still shitposting"



There's nothing ironic about it you dork I just do it for fun.



> i legitimately don't know what you're referring to but if she did that that's pretty shitty of her


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Jul 11, 2020)




----------



## CestusFlask (Jul 26, 2020)

4chan IS an embodiment of absolute anarchy and absolute freedom – the twisted aspect of this Idea. I would describe it with a quote from Roadside Picnic: “Happiness for everybody, free, and no one will go away unsatisfied”, except I would replace “Happiness” with “Freedom”.

What happens when we (hypothetically) create some environment where any person can express and share any idea without (also hypothetically) any repercussions? This place would certainly attract all sorts of wild concepts and bizarre ideas that cannot be shared anywhere else. But what would happen then? Most people have this inherent need to stand out from the crowd and, with overabundance of all these wild concepts and imagery, many users would slowly become more extreme and radical, constantly pushing forward even more shocking ideas and concepts, anything that would stand out.

With time general environment becomes more and more toxic, constant exposure to all these ever more shocking and bizarre concepts desensitizes users which, in turn, might push them into new extremes (because things that gave them that coveted rush of adrenaline can’t do this anymore and the concept of absolute anonymity and absence of any consequences makes this descent shockingly easy).

But don’t be too quick to judge them: there is a huge difference between thoughts and actions. Also, let’s look inside for a moment and ask ourselves: What would we do if we were there? Would we be any different? Could we resist the temptation of absolute freedom? How easy is it to succumb to (possibly toxic and twisted) mob mentality?


----------

