# Original Source Files



## jayriavieock (May 14, 2012)

Do you guys think that original source files be given out on digital art, but only when it is asked for?

some people I know have a terms to not give out the source file(s), which in this day in age it is not hard to give out anymore with like dropbox or google drive.
this question is not against anyone in particular.

Reason why me or someone else who commissioned an artist paid for the art and deserves the original files when asked for.

What do you guys think?


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## Arshes Nei (May 14, 2012)

I actually commission it as part of the price. If they want full copyright then they better pay me for work for hire status.


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## jayriavieock (May 15, 2012)

I don't mean full copyright, I mean just giving out the source file. I just want it to learn how the artist does their layers since I'm a beginner artist myself. I don't plan to call the art as my own at all.

and don't forget to answer poll too please XD


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## Littlerock (May 15, 2012)

Yes, but only if they pay the full price, and if you don't want them fucking with the image too much, you can always merge all layers on the original before giving it to them :P

Most of my commissioned pieces are made in such a way that they are intended to be used in other forms, on other backgrounds, and well, played with; much like a paper doll. Here's an example. With the transparent background and clean edge-lines, this image is perfect for integrating into other image environments and backdrops. As such, I always give my commissioners the option to have the layered piece as well as the flat, finished piece. But if the art were integral with the backdrop it's on? Then we have a different story. Paper dolls are meant to be posed and adjusted; paintings are meant to be hung and admired.


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## Aden (May 15, 2012)

jayriavieock said:


> I don't mean full copyright, I mean just giving out the source file. I just want it to learn how the artist does their layers since I'm a beginner artist myself.





jayriavieock said:


> Reason why me or someone else who commissioned an artist paid for the art and deserves the original files when asked for.



You don't "deserve" a thing, and this reads like you have delusions of entitlement under the surface. Do you know what commissioning is, really? The business side of it? You're paying an artist to spend their time and skill on subject matter of your choosing. No more and no less unless specified in the contract. 

Therefore it is the artist that usually decides in what format the commissioner gets a copy of the work. You can certainly _ask nicely_ for a layered file, but the artist certainly is under no obligation to honor that request unless those were the terms explicitly accepted at the time of agreement. And the commissioner has no right to whine if and when this is the case. 

And frankly (I'm going to spin off on a nerve that gets struck every so often, don't mind me), furry artists don't get paid enough to deal with spoiled people. A commissioner is not entitled to be able to pick apart and reverse engineer the years of experience, skill, and practice that go into an artist's PSD file because they did the great service of PayPal-ing them 25 bucks. Especially since it's very doubtful the artist themselves learned that way instead of painstaking trial and error over the years. Draw from life, practice, find out _why_ something is at it is, develop methods that work for you, apply things with _reason_ instead of just going 'oh, artist X put their highlight layer on this blending mode, I guess I'd better do that too!'. It'll be better for you as an artist in the long run. 

Or if you really are allergic to practice, google for a tutorial or something


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## jayriavieock (May 15, 2012)

alright, I didn't mean to use the word deserve, I meant be allowed to acquire.


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## Aden (May 15, 2012)

jayriavieock said:


> alright, I didn't mean to use the word deserve, I meant be allowed to acquire.



You meant "deserve" because "be allowed to acquire" is meaningless unless you were somehow legitimately under the impression that you are not allowed to even ask for source files. So either you're selfish or you're clueless; pick your poison.

\one of those days


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## jayriavieock (May 15, 2012)

uh, alright. sheesh no need to be mean on a question that was meant for people's opinions.


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## NerdyMunk (May 15, 2012)

Artists have already done this for me. They ask for your email and then they send you the full resolution when they are finished.


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## jayriavieock (May 15, 2012)

NerdyMunk said:


> Artists have already done this for me. They ask for your email and then they send you the full resolution when they are finished.



same for me


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## Littlerock (May 15, 2012)

NerdyMunk said:


> Artists have already done this for me. They ask for your email and then they send you the full resolution when they are finished.



A full-res image is a far cry from a layered one. 

A layered image allows for anyone to see the bones of the final; a dissection if you will. As Aden said, it often lays bare the methodology the artist uses, making it easy to learn, and plagiarize, their art and style. I usually offer a 'parts only' layered image for transparent-background .png images for this reason, my methods and sketches remain hidden, but each separate part/object that makes up the image can be manipulated separately for further use. I only ask that my signature remains legible in all derivatives.


...but that's me.


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## Zenia (May 15, 2012)

I usually only send a web-resolution image. If a commissioner asks, then they can have the full res version of the piece... if they want to make a print for themselves (but not for resale). I will not give the PSD file though, unless they buy full rights from me.


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## Arshes Nei (May 15, 2012)

Like I said, a source file is part of the price. I actually pay for the software that I use to do commissions in. So since you're asking for something extra you pay extra.

I also don't believe you'll learn much as a beginner with a source file as everyone has a different working method. For example - I actually work with few layers anyways I end up collapsing layers I don't use. The only reason I'll keep layers is if you're working with clients that will ask for changes (and those are ones that pay big monies not furry small time money) Anything you really want to learn can be learned by either practicing (which is the big one), watching youtube tutorials or videos that show you the work, going to school or getting art education, and reading books.

There are Open Canvas WPE files that can be of some use if you want to watch playback of the illustration...but a PSD or RIF (other format file) ...why? 

A high resolution image is not the same as a source file. 

You want to see how digital artists work? Here http://www.ctrlpaint.com/

Still doesn't replace time you need to spend drawing.


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## FireFeathers (May 15, 2012)

If the person asks, I generally send the full file. It's thier stuff, they can do with it as they please. Though my commissioners know not to sell prints for profit, and I haven't had an incident.  Though if someone's gonna steal your stuff, they'll find a way, so it doesn't really matter. 

As for layered PSD files,  I send those over too if they really want it. But I paint on one layer, so they couldn't dissect it if they tried.  MAKIN' IT SIMPLE   Even then, I don't really hide anything, because even if you're given the short-cuts (which don't really exist), a novice won't know how to use it correctly anyways.  Another version of that dilemma would be with an artist's personalized brushes that do this that and the other thing. I have a brush from Adonihs on DA that he says is his amazing mc-everything brush. Fuck if I know how to use it, though, it doesn't work for me much.  I've tried, but the skill-set doesn't transfer, just the tools.


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## Hiromitzarugi (May 15, 2012)

*Most people do not or are not going to sell pictures of their own character*. They just want to simply reproduce your artwork in a physical media, Original files allow for the best replication, unless your sending cusomers .PDF's. with Print Quality enabled, otherwize the reproduction quality will be poor. The customer has right to that at least,the high quality .PDF, Without watermarks a little (c) in the corner with your name and the customers name. Remember, It as much theirs as it is yours. You probably did not draw this without their "investment" , and often times your drawing their character that they "rented" you permission to use.

*Remember you don't have the rights to sell their artwork without their consent, to anyone other than them also. Especially, if you used their characters. If this was your intent, you need to spell it out in a contract. *Contracts, allow you to by-pass customer rights. but at the same time makes you less appealing, oh and make sure you get a handwritten signature on that contract, or any court-approved documentation.

Besides if your a high velocity artist, you might want to have customers fill-out a contract, Get to know your laws, but be ethical. 

I do printing for a living and their is nothing i hate seeing more than a customer getting poor quality prints because their artist didn't supply them with the resources to replicate it.


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## Thaily (May 15, 2012)

Deserve? Not unless it was negotiated beforehand.

Contrary to popular opinion, freelancers retain all the rights not negotiated in the contract beforehand. They don't have to ask for shit. Especially not for permission to repost/resell a drawing of a non-trademarked character.
Customer can ask for hi-rez files or for the artist to not sell prints of the commission, and artists may comply as a courtesy. But that's exactly what it is, a courtesy.

Customer beware, if you (don't) want something, ask for it beforehand! Be clear about your wishes before you agree on the commission.
Don't blame "greedy" artists because you forgot to ask for hi-rez files or didn't want the artist not to resell prints, we're not mind readers.

But beware that additional rights and such will cost extra.
Furry commissions already cost bupkiss, don't get upset if you don't get full rights to an image for $20.


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## Arshes Nei (May 15, 2012)

Hiromitzarugi said:


> *Most people do not or are not going to sell pictures of their own character*. They just want to simply reproduce your artwork in a physical media, Original files allow for the best replication, unless your sending cusomers .PDF's. with Print Quality enabled, otherwize the reproduction quality will be poor. The customer has right to that at least,the high quality .PDF, Without watermarks a little (c) in the corner with your name and the customers name. Remember, It as much theirs as it is yours. You probably did not draw this without their "investment" , and often times your drawing their character that they "rented" you permission to use.



There is no right they have, unless negotiated in the terms of the commission. It is not theirs either. It's the artist that owns the rights to the work. Remember to look up copyright laws before making assumptions. 



> *Remember you don't have the rights to sell their artwork without their consent, to anyone other than them also. Especially, if you used their characters.*



*Citation needed*

But here, I'll do that for you. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#idea

_How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work. _

Person's furry concept is not under copyright, however, the description of the work can fall under copyright. However, the artist who creates the work of your character *owns the work*

Companies that own a character usually fall under trademark and combination of copyright because the company owns the rights to the character and have established it over and over. Like...you know Mickey Mouse and Superman. 



> *If this was your intent, you need to spell it out in a contract. *Contracts, allow you to by-pass customer rights. but at the same time makes you less appealing, oh and make sure you get a handwritten signature on that contract, or any court-approved documentation.



*Citation needed.*

You got it wrong. The customer has to make a contract to bypass the artists' rights. Notice I'm using a term Work For Hire...yeah...go look it up 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire




> Besides if your a *high velocity artist*, you might want to have customers fill-out a contract, Get to know your laws, but be ethical.



(emphasis mine)
Wait, so only artists of speed should get a contract? You have something against artists that are slow?

Also http://www.youryoure.com/

You are correct on one sentence however, you should get to know the laws before you spout advice that's wrong. It's up to either the customer or artist to come up with a contract. However, if the customer doesn't fill it out. Copyright law is the artist's side. The artist created the work, and owns the rights to it. Even if I draw Superman, DC doesn't own my work. DC can have me not distribute it publicly, or sue me for damages. 

Laws != ethics. It is not against the law for someone to sell prints of the work, it may be unethical to do so without the permission of the person you originally drew for. I have commissioned other artists and *encouraged* them to sell prints of commission they gave me if they could just give me credit to character. Since it's hard to plaster my name over a print and I don't want to ruin the art - I just asked how well products using the work sold. I negotiated this before the first sketch. The reason  is because artists don't get paid enough as is. If you're doing freelance work you have to pay for your own health care, and pay the taxes normally paid into by an employer. Since I pay for my own equipment and software, and not some kiddies pirating Photoshop - damn well I make sure I get paid fairly and I'm not doing a work for hire unless I'm paid well - so I can file my quarterly taxes.  



> I do printing for a living and their is nothing i hate seeing more than a customer getting poor quality prints because their artist didn't supply them with the resources to replicate it.



It's "there" not 'Their" 

There is no reason for a possessive. That's also a different matter if they requested prints, because most artists and users for that matter don't even understand basic color management for printing and use cheap TN panels not calibrated properly and get a shock when their work doesn't print right. It's not just a matter to "Switching to CMYK" a lot of artists don't understand their colorspace or the gamut.


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## lostfoxeh (May 15, 2012)

Oh hell NOO! The client gets only what was agreed on. Like getting a personal commission then commercializing it. Unless the artist is asked and agrees it is not okay. The artist might want more money for source files or permission to have the right use their work commercially. In fact is is common on a commercial stand point for artist to charge a few thousand every time the need source files on an ad and lost the ones they bought in the first place. Both artist and client agree on what is to be bought and what price, then the agreement is met. No going back on what was said without agreement from the other.


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