# what's the ruling on this?



## holydust (Mar 12, 2010)

Hey, guys. Need a referee on a situation, so if you would be so kind, help me out.

I've had a piece in my gallery for over a year, commissioned by Party C, of Party A and Party B. The two parties portrayed in the commission were/are known for having a tumultuous relationship, and I knew I was getting into hot water just accepting the piece, but I was in need of money at the time and it was good practice.

A year later, I receive a note from Party B (not the client who paid for the piece) demanding that the piece be taken out of my gallery because these two are no longer "on speaking terms".

Now, I recognize that Party A and Party B are under the impression that they have some kind of claim on their own characters, so I can understand Party B's assumption that this is a fair request. I am positive that neither has a trademark, though, so officially, the complaint would be null and void. 

Taking the piece out of my gallery means I no longer get the benefit of using it to promote my work as a whole. In my current commissions, a piece that will never see the light of day incurs a "portfolio fee" as a result of this inconvenience. If I spend three weeks working on a private piece and it never goes up in my gallery, to my viewers, it just looks like I'm not working. In this case, however, the piece -has- been seen for a while, but it has actually earned me one very specific additional commission due to the subject matter, so I really don't like to lose pieces if I can help it.

The piece HAS been up for a year, and I -have- made great strides since then, so I'm not saying I would be horribly crippled if I took it down. However, I feel like it's opening up a giant can of worms if I accept. What's to stop a person from commissioning me, not paying the portfolio fee, then demanding that the piece be taken out of my gallery soon after?

My question is, silly dramatic reasoning aside, can Party B actually cause issues for me if I don't take the piece out of my FA gallery?

Thanks for reading this! Sincerely appreciated. Not trying to start crap, just wanna do the right thing and not get walked on.

-HD


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## TheKyleIsHere (Mar 12, 2010)

Personally, I would deny them the right to have you remove the piece as it is not something they payed for.

You should, however, remove any identifying information, allowing party b to remain anonymous. You are the artist, it is your time and effort, and you retain the rights to your art, no matter who pays for it (barring any binding contracts, of course).


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## holydust (Mar 12, 2010)

At least for now, removing names and links is totally doable. I have no problem with that. I do feel, though, that that will not be enough for Party B, as they will no doubt feel that they are instantly recognizable regardless of the existence of identifying text. It's good advice, though; thank you.


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## Aden (Mar 12, 2010)

Unless they bought the rights to the art (which, if it was not specified in the commission agreement, they didn't), you have free reign as to what to do. What they paid for is for you to spend your time making something they specify (and also a copy of that work).


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## holydust (Mar 12, 2010)

Aden said:


> Unless they bought the rights to the art (which, if it was not specified in the commission agreement, they didn't), you have free reign as to what to do. What they paid for is for you to spend your time making something they specify (and also a copy of that work).



That is kind of what I thought. But what if Party B threatens legal action by claiming that they own the rights to their character's likeness, even though they were happily involved in the commissioning of the work when it was made? I have the copyrights to the art, but not to the character. I don't know where a mod would fall on this.


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## Aden (Mar 12, 2010)

holydust said:


> That is kind of what I thought. But what if Party B threatens legal action by claiming that they own the rights to their character's likeness, even though they were happily involved in the commissioning of the work when it was made? I have the copyrights to the art, but not to the character. I don't know where a mod would fall on this.



You cannot copyright a character.


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## holydust (Mar 12, 2010)

Aden said:


> You cannot copyright a character.



Well, then, I guess that answers that question. :3 (I'm assuming you mean a character can only be trademarked? Sorry, that's my fault for using the wrong word.)

My major irritation is that these two are probably going to make up tomorrow, again, anyway, and I'll be harassed and frustrated for no good reason. My only, ONLY concern is that a random mod will get pestered by Party B and they will come knocking down my door.

Is the safest thing to just explain in the description of the piece the circumstances of the commission at the time of posting and my feelings on why I should get to keep it up?


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## Aden (Mar 12, 2010)

holydust said:


> Well, then, I guess that answers that question. :3
> 
> My major irritation is that these two are probably going to make up tomorrow, again, anyway, and I'll be harassed and frustrated for no good reason. My only, ONLY concern is that a random mod will get pestered by Party B and they will come knocking down my door.
> 
> Is the safest thing to just explain in the description of the piece the circumstances of the commission at the time of posting and my feelings on why I should get to keep it up?



Could work. You could also probably get a mod on these guys for harassment if it comes to it.

Also if you are talking to them and tell them that you can't copyright characters and they come back with "well what about mickey mouse lol", explain that Mickey (as well as other big-name characters) is TRADEMARKED and that some furry's personal character design is not eligible to be trademarked.


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## holydust (Mar 12, 2010)

Aden said:


> Could work. You could also probably get a mod on these guys for harassment if it comes to it.
> 
> Also if you are talking to them and tell them that you can't copyright characters and they come back with "well what about mickey mouse lol", explain that Mickey (as well as other big-name characters) is TRADEMARKED and that some furry's personal character design is not eligible to be trademarked.



For the record, in case they read this, no one has legitimately harassed me yet, but I do anticipate some paper-throwing and high-pitched yelling after I give Party B my answer.

Thank you so much for the advice. Funny how you think you know how this stuff works until it actually comes down to the point where you need to know it, then you're totally clueless. I really appreciate it.

I will offer them (or a moneyed party of their choosing, as was usually the case ) the opportunity to pay the portfolio fee if they wish to have the piece removed, but they clearly don't have a leg to stand on if they wish for me to remove it by force.


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## Taralack (Mar 12, 2010)

Wow it sounds like you're having a bad time of this. Sometimes I really hate this fandom and its dramafags, but what can you do... good luck.


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## holydust (Mar 13, 2010)

Toraneko said:


> Wow it sounds like you're having a bad time of this. Sometimes I really hate this fandom and its dramafags, but what can you do... good luck.



Sweet of you to say. No no, so far all I've gotten is the one note, so I rushed over to drop this thread in time to get some wise counsel before a response from Party B. I will, of course, update if it turns into a dramafest. Considering that I do everything I can to stay off the drama-dar, I will be most displeased if Party B somehow manages to waste more than 10 minutes of my time with tomfoolery.


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## HyenaIsSpider (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm sorry, but that is such a silly request, imo. XD

Since it's already a year old chances are it's not going to be seen that often anyway so I'd just leave it up. Most you should do (though, I wouldn't) is scrap it. That way it'd still be in your gallery but wouldn't be seen as often. Or... maybe ask if just removing their usernames would be sufficient?


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## holydust (Mar 15, 2010)

HyenaIsSpider said:


> I'm sorry, but that is such a silly request, imo. XD
> 
> Since it's already a year old chances are it's not going to be seen that often anyway so I'd just leave it up. Most you should do (though, I wouldn't) is scrap it. That way it'd still be in your gallery but wouldn't be seen as often. Or... maybe ask if just removing their usernames would be sufficient?




I removed the usernames immediately when I got some responses to this thread -- no skin off my nose! Party B hasn't written me back yet, but I am positive that just means they haven't received my message.

To be honest, it ruffles my feathers that I'm even getting dragged into this. These two really do need to grow up and understand how their insane fur-drama affects those around them. I'm sorry that they are both so attention-starved and manipulative, but when it starts to involve me and mine, I have to put my foot down. (I'd just like to say that, for the record, as an artist who identifies more with human and -mimis than furs, that these two in no way represent my view of the fur community as a whole. They are stereotypes, and bad ones, and I never forget that. @_@)

What's sad is, I knew that Party C, who paid for the piece, was being used for his money the moment he came to me willing to pay for a commission of Party A and Party B, but I knew that it wasn't going to do any good for me to get involved. Here I am, a year later, wishing I'd just told Party C to keep his money and get away from these two as fast as his legs would carry him.


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## KashakuTatsu (Mar 18, 2010)

holydust said:


> To be honest, it ruffles my feathers that I'm even getting dragged into this. These two really do need to grow up and understand how their insane fur-drama affects those around them.



It's sad how artists can be inadvertently dragged into couple drama due to commissioned art. 

I actually got into it with a former boss (who never paid me for what I gave him anyways) over image ownership. Even if it is someone else's idea for the image, it's still your work so they have no say in making you take it down. You have to physically sign a waiver to release all licenses to the picture over to the commissioner. If it's something that's trademarked I think you have to seek permission from the owning company before making money off a redraw of it... it's been awhile since I looked at the license laws.


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