# Difference between Therians and Otherkin?



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 5, 2009)

I find the two synonymous, but apparently they're not. I bring up sometimes to furries on YT that they probably have some kind of Therian belief, because if the conversation goes on long enough they will eventually tell me that they do believe they have some kind of spiritual connection to whatever animal, but then I look back on it and think that maybe I should have used the word "otherkin" instead. I get conflicting definitions so I don't really know how to separate the two. So could someone tell me the difference?


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## Nargle (Sep 5, 2009)

I think Otherkins believe they're humans with the spirit of an animal, whereas Therians believe they actually are the animal, or something like that?


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## Bacu (Sep 5, 2009)

Therian -- Any member of the taxonomic subclass Theria; the placental and marsupial mammals; Of or pertaining to the taxonomic subclass Theria

:B



but anyway...

Therianism - Therianthropy (from n. therianthrope and adj. therianthropic, part man and part beast, from the Greek therÃ­on, Î¸Î·ÏÎ¯Î¿Î½, meaning "wild animal ...

Otherkin are a subculture of people, primarily Internet-based, who identify in some way as other than human. ... A subculture of people who claim or believe that their souls are non-human


Google, Dawg.

Edit: Summary for those who can't interpret definitions

Therians think they're part animal, otherkin think they're animal souled. I'm sure there's all sorts of overlapping dumbassery.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 5, 2009)

There's even less difference between the two than there is between either one and furries, and that's not much in the first place. But therians seem to love placing themselves on some pedestal above both furries and otherkin. Because, y'know, they *shift*, and they're *spiritual*, and they're not at all just as desperately trying to escape from reality as everyone else.


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## Internet Police Chief (Sep 5, 2009)

I believe the difference is:

Therians accept themselves as humans, but have a "spirit" or "soul" of an animal. They're also always animals.

Otherkin believe that they are supposed to be that different race, instead of being human. They aren't always animals. For example, look up "Otakukin". They are people that literally believe that they are reborn versions of anime characters.

Both of them are batshit.


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## Aden (Sep 6, 2009)

Doesn't matter. They're both better than us since we're all just posers anyway.


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## Ragnarok-Cookies (Sep 6, 2009)

The both have very interesting similarities to religion.


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## Azure (Sep 6, 2009)

I just like cute animals .


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## Nick (Sep 6, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> I just like cute animals .


 
^^ agreed


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## chipuplover (Sep 6, 2009)

A therian believes that they have the spirit or soul of an animal within them.  
An otherkin believes they have the spirit or sould of a mythological creature within them.  
Both believe they have a soul that is not human within them.  Having a spiritual connection to an animal or mythological creature doesn't make a person a therian or an otherkin.  You have to believe you ARE that animal inside pretty much.


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## LizardKing (Sep 6, 2009)

oh here we go


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## Gavrill (Sep 6, 2009)

Wow you guys are retarded


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## Thatch (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm a banana.


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## Attaman (Sep 6, 2009)

szopaw said:


> I'm a banana.


  So this leaves how many mindfucks left before we reach the #1?


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## Thatch (Sep 6, 2009)

Attaman said:


> So this leaves how many mindfucks left before we reach the #1?



It was Number Banana. He was a carrot. 

And there's no number 1 :V

Number Banana -> Number Baloon -> Number Z -> umber Toaster -> Number <3 -> Number # -> Number Lamp -> Number Gutenberg -> Number Pi -> Number Piano -> Number Theory of Relativity

I love that video.


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## Duality Jack (Sep 6, 2009)

I met a cock vampire a goth woman who really bites and at the wrong time.


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## LizardKing (Sep 6, 2009)

szopaw said:


> I'm a banana.



My spoon is too big :[


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## Thatch (Sep 6, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> My spoon is too big :[



There is no spoon.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 6, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> The both have very interesting similarities to religion.



Oh bullshit. What do therianthropy and otherkin say about how you should live your life, treat others, who you should marry, when and why? What do they say about the nature of humanity? What do they say about how the universe was created, how it will end, and how do they define things like good and evil? They don't even come close to addressing any of these. They believe everything and nothing at the same time.

You guys need to sit in a therian chatroom some time. 80% of it is everyone, and I mean *everyone* either idling, or communicating only with their little group of friends in PM. Another 15% is people having tech-related wankfests, and the other 5% might actually be therianthropic discussion, but even that can't usually be sustained for that long.

What therians really worship is whatever religious/antireligious/politicial ideology they already have, their computer/videogame/sound system, the company they work for (or at least the money), and most of all, *themselves*.

Now, I've often speculated that the "hidden message" of the Christian "word of God" is that *you* are God, insofar as if you're the the male head of a household, it was written _for_ you, by people not unlike you, to justify what you _and_ them do _without_ the word of God. But most therians can't even be that kind of cruelly ironic/evil deep thinker.


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## Ikrit (Sep 6, 2009)

there is none


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## Thatch (Sep 6, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Oh bullshit. What do therianthropy and otherkin say about how you should live your life, treat others, who you should marry, when and why? What do they say about the nature of humanity? What do they say about how the universe was created, how it will end, and how do they define things like good and evil? They don't even come close to addressing any of these. They believe everything and nothing at the same time.



Spiritual belief. That's close enough.


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## Carenath (Sep 6, 2009)

Nargle said:


> I think Otherkins believe they're humans with the spirit of an animal, whereas Therians believe they actually are the animal, or something like that?


Something like that.



Wolf-Bone said:


> There's even less difference between the two than there is between either one and furries, and that's not much in the first place. But therians seem to love placing themselves on some pedestal above both furries and otherkin. Because, y'know, they *shift*, and they're *spiritual*, and they're not at all just as desperately trying to escape from reality as everyone else.


Not all therians or otherkin are trying to escape reality.



chipuplover said:


> A therian believes that they have the spirit or soul of an animal within them.
> An otherkin believes they have the spirit or sould of a mythological creature within them.
> Both believe they have a soul that is not human within them.  Having a spiritual connection to an animal or mythological creature doesn't make a person a therian or an otherkin.  You have to believe you ARE that animal inside pretty much.


Incorrect.


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## Internet Police Chief (Sep 6, 2009)

Carenath said:


> Something like that.
> 
> 
> Not all therians or otherkin are trying to escape reality.
> ...



THERIAN DETECTED

WEE-WOO WEE-WOO


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## Surgat (Sep 6, 2009)

I've wondered something. 

How do otherkin account for getting reincarnated from some other creature into the a human? Do they have some system of Karma, where if you violate some taboo* and/or natural moral laws, your soul transmigrates to something it wasn't optimized for when you die? 

Do they hold to some "Great Chain of Being" doctrine, where certain creatures are better in some natural, cosmic sense, and being human is a possible reward for purity and/or good behavior from a "lower" creature? Is soul-sorting the responsibility of some kind of capricious deity/trickster god/demiurge?



*Note that taboo is more like hygiene than ethics. You can involuntarily violate a taboo and be considered impure, like if you accidentally step on a bug in Jainism, eat pork in Islam, or if you were simply born in Christianity. It works like dirt, poison, bacterial, or radiological contamination in the real world.


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## Liam (Sep 6, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> I just like cute animals .


Here's some free porn for you then.[nsfw if your boss is all get back to work or your fired but then again if you are here looking at that can't be all that much worse]


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## chipuplover (Sep 6, 2009)

I'd hate to argue with you Carenath but from the research I've done into the subject. that is what I have learned from multiple therians and otherkin as well as their websites.  Please tell me WHY you say it is incorrect.  Here are some sources I have found that support what I have said about otherkin and therians.

http://www.otherkin.net/articles/what.html
http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=3536.0
http://therianthropes.com/therianthropy.htm
http://news.deviantart.com/article/90010/
http://otherkin.wikia.com/wiki/Therians
http://otherkin.wikia.com/wiki/Otherkin


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## LizardKing (Sep 6, 2009)

Has anyone said "FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON" yet?

No?

Okay.


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## Attaman (Sep 6, 2009)

szopaw said:


> There is no spoon.


No Spoon?!


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 6, 2009)

Carenath said:
			
		

> Not all therians or otherkin are trying to escape reality.



No, after all, I am one myself. But we're a dying breed and, inevitably, find we have to escape _the community_ because the more in touch we become with *reality*, the less appeal *it* has to us. It's always been a recurring theme in the therian community's timeline for older members to become jaded with it, but it's increasingly become fragmented and hugbox-ish. In something like two decades of there being a therian community on the internet, they're really no closer to having a common belief system/worldview than when they started. As long as that's true, statements like "therianthropy isn't a real spirituality" and "therians live in their own little worlds" will be true _enough_, the way it's true that the furry fandom has become as much an "alternative lifestyle" as a fanbase of anthropomorphism and fetish porn and other sundry faggotry.



			
				szopaw said:
			
		

> Spiritual belief. That's close enough.



See above. If you still don't get what I mean, let me put it this way: there's atheist therians/therians who don't believe in any sort of spiritual existence whatsoever. And we/they have yet to come up with a coherent idea as to how the fuck those people can call themselves a word that means "animal people" and be part of something that is at least _attempting_ to be a spirituality if what they're essentially saying is they're delusional but aware of/in control of their own delusion. And the only reason we don't "wish them success to seek elsewhere" (this is the bullshit politically correct speech therians invent for *banning* someone. lovely, isn't it?) is because we can't honestly look in the mirror and say we're any less delusional or any more in control than they are. So for all we know, they might in some way be _more_ truly therian than us, if their idea of therianthropy is *the holy grail of therianthropy* or whatever.

Really, it's another version of the problem the furry community has. It's another internet group of people playing internet politics largely for its own sake, and the biggest delusion most of the people participating in it are suffering from is their notion that they're not doing that entirely for its own sake and "building a better therian community" isn't just the rationalism they've latched onto to justify it.

How am I still a therian, having said all that? Because it's always been better when it's an *individual* spiritual journey. Mine has made me and what I believe incompatible with the broader therian community, and actually, it makes _a lot_ of therians my enemy, because confusion is a tool of evil, and the way the therian community governs itself (or rather, doesn't) breeds confusion.


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## CAThulu (Sep 7, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> No, after all, I am one myself. But we're a dying breed and, inevitably, find we have to escape _the community_ because the more in touch we become with *reality*, the less appeal *it* has to us. It's always been a recurring theme in the therian community's timeline for older members to become jaded with it, but it's increasingly become fragmented and hugbox-ish. In something like two decades of there being a therian community on the internet, they're really no closer to having a common belief system/worldview than when they started. As long as that's true, statements like "therianthropy isn't a real spirituality" and "therians live in their own little worlds" will be true _enough_, the way it's true that the furry fandom has become as much an "alternative lifestyle" as a fanbase of anthropomorphism and fetish porn and other sundry faggotry.
> 
> See above. If you still don't get what I mean, let me put it this way: there's atheist therians/therians who don't believe in any sort of spiritual existence whatsoever. And we/they have yet to come up with a coherent idea as to how the fuck those people can call themselves a word that means "animal people" and be part of something that is at least _attempting_ to be a spirituality if what they're essentially saying is they're delusional but aware of/in control of their own delusion. And the only reason we don't "wish them success to seek elsewhere" (this is the bullshit politically correct speech therians invent for *banning* someone. lovely, isn't it?) is because we can't honestly look in the mirror and say we're any less delusional or any more in control than they are. So for all we know, they might in some way be _more_ truly therian than us, if their idea of therianthropy is *the holy grail of therianthropy* or whatever.
> 
> ...



^^ Good lord this.  You've summarized perfectly my struggles and views with being therian.   I know other therians and 'kin, but no two are the same.  Personally I doubt I'd ever be a part of a community because of the politics and there's no set definition.   The last thing you need in any community is confusion.


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## Darkwing (Sep 7, 2009)

FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON >:C

EDIT: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/8/82/BitchesDragon.gif


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## Armaetus (Sep 7, 2009)

One of my friends is an otherkin and overall, he's a nice guy..I thought he was a furry for all the years I've known him but again, he has talked to some otherkin who are absolute dicks..especially those with unwarranted self-importance and arrogant to boot. It was bad enough he had to block the last guy he and I have talked to (Tevix, I think) due to his behavior and attitude towards him.


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## Shino (Sep 7, 2009)

General rule of thumb, avoid both, there's much less drama that way.

Oh darn, too late. *facepaw*


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## Aden (Sep 7, 2009)

Shino said:


> General rule of thumb, avoid both, there's much less drama that way.
> 
> Oh darn, too late. *facepaw*



It _is_ possible to be more indignant and kneejerk than a furry, who'd have guessed? :O


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 8, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> No, after all, I am one myself. But we're a dying breed and, inevitably, find we have to escape _the community_ because the more in touch we become with *reality*, the less appeal *it* has to us. It's always been a recurring theme in the therian community's timeline for older members to become jaded with it, but it's increasingly become fragmented and hugbox-ish. In something like two decades of there being a therian community on the internet, they're really no closer to having a common belief system/worldview than when they started. As long as that's true, statements like "therianthropy isn't a real spirituality" and "therians live in their own little worlds" will be true _enough_, the way it's true that the furry fandom has become as much an "alternative lifestyle" as a fanbase of anthropomorphism and fetish porn and other sundry faggotry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
So there really is no definition of what is a therian because each therian practically has a different view of therianthropy. 

So if someone thinks they have *some* kind of connection to whatever animal, would that mean they have sone kind of therian belief?


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## Bacu (Sep 8, 2009)

I think we can all agree that they're batshit insane and leave it at that.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 8, 2009)

Bacu said:


> I think we can all agree that they're batshit insane and leave it at that.


 
I'm trying to find out of the two are the same.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 8, 2009)

Well, I'm "a therian", and I'm not batshit insane. You can believe whatever you want, no matter how far out there it is, and still be sane if you're still in touch with/care about the physical, understandable, definable world, its limitations and its *real* problems (not "werewolf hunters" which is another bullshit "fursecution" complex people use to justify a lack of motivation to do something worthwhile with their life).

The thing is, it was hard to find that in the were community in the first place, and the few who did a really good job of laying out a foundation for a community based on it, who ran their own forums/chat rooms *inevitably* ended up getting surrounded by people who'd make that their political tool/excuse to take their problems out on strangers over the internet. They have jobs, families and lives outside the internet, which is the kind of people you need to provide some example of *sanity* for a group made up of, frankly, *losers* to follow. But it always means when they're not around, the inmates are running the asylum. Inevitably, those of us who follow their example/have important shit to deal with in our lives offline that gives us some new perspectives as therians/*people* get tired of the inmates and their bullshit, and that's why chatroom/forum activity dwindles to the point that even people who want to salvage it ultimately decide it's just not worth it for them.

Like I said, I consider myself to be one of the therians who's more successful at owning themselves and their therianthropy. I started out like most do, having a faint awareness of what I am at a very young age, and not really even knowing how to explore it until I got on the internet a few years later. The "community" aspect of it started in earnest for me in *1998*. By now, I damn well *ought to* have a very different spirituality/worldview than most therians, and considering what a lot of therians nowadays are willing to tolerate for the sake of *the group*, I *shouldn't* be able to get along with them.

If I'm a *decent human being*, let alone a *Rasta*therian, how in the hell am I supposed to keep my mouth shut when some naive teenager's talking about how one of their internet "friends" is *a White Nationalist therian* and take them and their "friend's" word for it that _their_ White Nationalism is somehow *not* the same as every other White Nationalism out there? How, at 26, and knowing what I know (which is more than I want to sometimes), am I supposed to be expected to suddenly become as naive/stupid as those people so *the group* can maintain its illusion of everyone getting along?

And how can a Rastafari therian and a White Nationalist therian honestly tell themselves they have the same spirituality when they obviously don't. And how are they supposed to get along when *they're not supposed to get along!* One thing that's changed in the past few years though is people don't even _try_ to hold up the facade of actually caring about being right, logically, factually, or morally anymore. They'll actually tell you to your face they only care about having their little group of friends on the fringes of the internet and nothing disturbing their little circle jerk. So if that's the closest thing to a "community" a therian can hope to belong to anymore, well, at least the furry fandom actually _has_ more than like a hundred people!


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## Carenath (Sep 8, 2009)

chipuplover said:


> I'd hate to argue with you Carenath but from the research I've done into the subject. that is what I have learned from multiple therians and otherkin as well as their websites.  Please tell me WHY you say it is incorrect.  Here are some sources I have found that support what I have said about otherkin and therians.


You infer that *all* those who claim to have an animal soul within, are therians and that *all* those who claim to have the soul of a mythological animal within, are otherkin. This is incorrect as there are otherkin, who claim to have an animal soul within, they are different from therians.
This is also one of the reasons trpdwarf and others state that otherkin have bastardised therianthropy.



Glaice said:


> ...he has talked to some otherkin who are absolute dicks..especially those with unwarranted self-importance and arrogant to boot. It was bad enough he had to block the last guy he and I have talked to (Tevix, I think) due to his behavior and attitude towards him.


Those ones, I go out of my way to avoid.


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## Jashwa (Sep 8, 2009)

Why are like half of otherkin dragons?


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## CAThulu (Sep 8, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Why are like half of otherkin dragons?



It could be they're the most common of the 'kin.  There are fae, elves, vampires, gryphons, and other kin types.  Dragon may be the one we run into the most.

It's the same with the therians.  Wolves seem to be the most common type out there, but there are many different types, same as with the 'kin.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 8, 2009)

What if a person told me that they feel like they have some kind of connection to some animal, like a wolf or fox? Would that make them otherkin or therian? I run into that a lot when I talk to furries.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 8, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> What if a person told me that they feel like they have some kind of connection to some animal, like a wolf or fox? Would that make them otherkin or therian? I run into that a lot when I talk to furries.



I could be wrong (as if there's really a "right" with such an inherently incoherent collection of beliefs and ideas), but I'm pretty sure the main dividing line between therians and otherkin is therians believe they are, in essence, *animals that exist in the real world or at least did at one time*.

With otherkin, you could be, as a commonly stated example, a dragon. And from there, it's a question of, okay, *how* are you, in essence, a dragon? Do you believe the dragon is some spiritual being that becomes part of you, somehow, and since it has no tangible form of its own but wants you to know it as best as you're capable of, and it may be a manifestation of whatever driving human force caused humans to create dragons in the first place (like, it represents to you something similar to what dragons represented to humans thousands of years ago), it draws on the image/concept of "dragon" that already exists in your mind? Or is it your mind trying to identify *your* spirit as it already is, which also has no tangible form, so tries to assign the closest workable/most similar in essence real, living thing to it? Or do you do what some people do and try to rationalize it as being "just as sane as therianthropy" (as if that's saying much, the way most therians are) with all this "evidence" you can pull off the web/out of your ass about how dragons might've actually been real once?

Now, aside from the last example, all the possible explanations for *why* a person sees themselves/their essence the way they do _and more_ are common to therians and otherkin alike. So in that sense, we are, in a way, the same. However, it's that crucial last example for otherkin, and "therians" who believe Hollywood type werewolves *are* real/were at one time/are possible for a human to become who are the therian analogue to "FYIAD" otherkin that create a situation where we can argue who's beliefs are stupid(er) all we like without it changing the fact we've both got junk to clean up in our backyards before we critique the other guys' front lawn.

As I think might've already been mentioned here, there's "otherkin" who don't just believe they're reincarnations of "extinct" "not mythical" creatures, but things like anime characters that even _they_ aren't going to try to say exist(ed) outside of _someone elses_ head. I don't participate in the otherkin community and never really even _lurked_ in it, so I can't tell you how those guys explain it or what the broader otherkin community thinks of them. But if I had to venture a guess, I'd bet if it's anything like the therian community, they might be like our closest thing to an equivalent of the few therians I've met/heard tell of who made their "spirituality" and their racist/otherwise downright *wrong* worldview one in the same, and the hugbox mentality probably ends up weeding out a lot of otherkin whose sense of reason and moral truth outweighs any notion that the group should get along for the sake of getting along.

Really, between furries, otherkin and therians, it's almost like the three superstates in Nineteen Eighty-Four. On paper being very different from one another, in practice being practically the same, and depending on which one you see yourself as, it's easy to trick yourself into thinking it doesn't matter what state your "community" is in, but which one it's most allied with and which one it's most opposed to.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 9, 2009)

I just got a reply from a furry one YouTube. She said "that depends...

i don't have anyfriends, and have always felt i was something more then human, thisï»¿ is just a way of expresing myself really. =3"

Would she be a therian? Also, you seem to have a vast knowledge of the therian community. Ever thought about writing a book?


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## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 9, 2009)

No difference, both are batshit insane.


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## Trpdwarf (Sep 9, 2009)

I tend to put these kinds of things into three categories:

Otherkin: Believe they have a non human soul.
Bastard Otherkin based Therianthropy: Same as above and both encompass a 20 year old movement.

Old-world/Original therianthropy: Includes shamanism, totemist, druidism, and shifts during meditation or so called journeying to the "other world". Does not include the idea of having a soul other than human. This spans over the course of well over a thousand years and still has some modern practitioners who have since them disassociated with the term because of above described 20 year old-ish group.

I wonder how long till I touch a nerve with my simple little post.



chipuplover said:


> I'd hate to argue with you Carenath but from the research I've done into the subject. that is what I have learned from multiple therians and otherkin as well as their websites.  Please tell me WHY you say it is incorrect.  Here are some sources I have found that support what I have said about otherkin and therians.
> 
> http://www.otherkin.net/articles/what.html
> http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=3536.0
> ...



Lol Biased links.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 9, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> I tend to put these kinds of things into three categories:
> 
> Otherkin: Believe they have a non human soul.
> Bastard Otherkin based Therianthropy: Same as above and both encompass a 20 year old movement.
> ...



You're leaving out the therians who don't really see a distinction between a human soul and an animal soul. Probably because, in a typical western mindset, the concept is foreign to you even as you're talking about some "true" "original" therianthropy that you're convinced was practiced by cultures whose history is largely lost to time. The best way I can think of to describe it is, "human" or "wolf" souls are to *soul* as certain colors are to *light*. While the "truest", unfiltered "pure" light is white, it is still made up of all the colors of the spectrum, even if all you see is white. Similarly, some therians "shift" from the "human" side of the spectrum to the "animal" side, while others are always locked in the "animal" side, while others still are locked in the "human" side yet intuitively are aware of the "animal" side.

So, let me make it clear to you, if it's not already. *My* therianthropy doesn't negate/deny the human essence any more than *theirs* did, if these people you speak of even existed in the way you think they do. You'll find the same is true of a lot of therians (I wish I could say most but I honestly don't know about them as a group anymore). That being said, one thing my therianthropy has in common with that of many of those of the "20 year-ish" group, which has been true for as long as I've been in it, is we *do* tend to frown upon cultural misappropriation, plastic shamanism, romanticizing cultures one doesn't belong to/knows little about, and perpetuating the noble-savage mindset. It's in extremely poor taste.

From day one, at least as far as I can recall, practicing certain things that other cultures practiced, or at least trying to because you think it might help you in your journey, we've never seen anything wrong with that. But we don't, for a minute, try to appeal to tradition when we don't even really *know* tradition by trying to say we're practicing the same spirituality as people from thousands of years ago, and ergo, *ours* is more legit than *yours*. There might be things in common, but we recognize that their spirituality was for them, in their times, and our spirituality must be for us, in these times.



			
				Trpdwarf said:
			
		

> I wonder how long till I touch a nerve with my simple little post.



:roll: Because that's what it's really all about to you, isn't it? You'd do well among the therians who's theriotype may as well be their hardware/operating system with that attitude - until you brought up how you have the *true* therianthropy because you saw Chris Lambert rock that dope wig and now you're a *druid*.



			
				Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:
			
		

> Also, you seem to have a vast knowledge of the therian community. Ever thought about writing a book?



If I thought it might actually sell more than a few copies, maybe it _would_ justify what would amount to me jerking off in people's faces as some kind of "guru". But there are some things I want to do that could be of better benefit, like starting my own website, and with it, another corner of the "were" community. It needs some fresh blood/ideas. Actually, what the lot of us internet "fringe" types could stand to become is less fringe, and I think between furries, otherkin, therians, and probably even some others I'm not considering, there are those of us who have enough in common in terms of worldview/goals/*maturity* that if we came together, we could sort've help each other instead of *use* each other, which I find is common in all these fringe groups and it's destructive to everyone. So I definitely want to set up some kind of beacon that points this out and, hopefully, can point us in a better direction.

I also got an idea for a sequential art series that draws pretty heavily on at least _my_ therianthropy, but while that does include a lot of what I picked up being around other therians, it's something more for anybody who likes fantasy stories with parallels to the real world than "just for us" <--- the mentality that creates fringe groups in the first place.


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## south syde dobe (Sep 9, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> You're leaving out the therians who don't really see a distinction between a human soul and an animal soul. Probably because, in a typical western mindset, the concept is foreign to you even as you're talking about some "true" "original" therianthropy that you're convinced was practiced by cultures whose history is largely lost to time. The best way I can think of to describe it is, "human" or "wolf" souls are to *soul* as certain colors are to *light*. While the "truest", unfiltered "pure" light is white, it is still made up of all the colors of the spectrum, even if all you see is white. Similarly, some therians "shift" from the "human" side of the spectrum to the "animal" side, while others are always locked in the "animal" side, while others still are locked in the "human" side yet intuitively are aware of the "animal" side.
> 
> So, let me make it clear to you, if it's not already. *My* therianthropy doesn't negate/deny the human essence any more than *theirs* did, if these people you speak of even existed in the way you think they do. You'll find the same is true of a lot of therians (I wish I could say most but I honestly don't know about them as a group anymore). That being said, one thing my therianthropy has in common with that of many of those of the "20 year-ish" group, which has been true for as long as I've been in it, is we *do* tend to frown upon cultural misappropriation, plastic shamanism, romanticizing cultures one doesn't belong to/knows little about, and perpetuating the noble-savage mindset. It's in extremely poor taste.
> 
> ...


 
@.@
As many essays as you write I would pay you almost what ever you wanted to do my english and literature homework...
how do you find the words to write all that stuff?


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 9, 2009)

south syde fox said:


> @.@
> As many essays as you write I would pay you almost what ever you wanted to do my english and literature homework...
> how do you find the words to write all that stuff?



Um, well, let's see. It all started with, um, my parents speaking to me in full sentences from a baby, me asking them what words mean when I don't know and them telling me. And then there was all that like, school, and stuff, with the writing assignments and the book readings and whatnot. And then the mental kung-fu dojo that was most of the internet forums I got involved with around that sweet-spot between 1997-2001-ish before *everything* became about *social networking* and *web 2.0* and *Oh my fuck, man, why come people gotta use so much words in their blogs, man! Let's invent Twitter!*

I'm actually not the best at "proper" English, actually. I just try to find ways to break all the rules that work. Seriously, you wouldn't want me writing your English homework. You wouldn't flunk out, but you wouldn't get the best marks either.


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## Jashwa (Sep 9, 2009)

south syde fox said:


> @.@
> As many essays as you write I would pay you almost what ever you wanted to do my english and literature homework...
> how do you find the words to write all that stuff?


Intelligence on any level above junior high school.


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## south syde dobe (Sep 9, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> I'm actually not the best at "proper" English, actually. I just try to find ways to break all the rules that work. Seriously, you wouldn't want me writing your English homework. You wouldn't flunk out, but you wouldn't get the best marks either.


 
Well its better than nothing, writing 8 page essays are boring and just too much work trying stretch it that much with tiny ass fonts and borders only being an inch x_x



Jashwa said:


> Intelligence on any level above junior high school.


 
No you misunderstood man, how does he find the will power to right that stuff, if I wanted to right essays on a forum I could but holy hell thats alot of work that doesn't really pay off ._.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 9, 2009)

south syde fox said:


> Well its better than nothing, writing 8 page essays are boring and just too much work trying stretch it that much with tiny ass fonts and borders only being an inch x_x
> 
> 
> 
> No you misunderstood man, how does he find the will power to right that stuff, if I wanted to right essays on a forum I could but holy hell thats alot of work that doesn't really pay off ._.



It really helps if you actually care about the subject. I'll go on at length about therianthropy when someone has a genuine desire to understand it or is misrepresenting it. I wrote three paragraphs the other day about the graphics in a video game, but in the same post, could barely even throw a bone to the gameplay because I didn't have enough knowledge of the genre to feel very confident in my ability to make an informed critique. But I enjoyed it, so I highlighted the good.

Subjects I used to be able to write a lot about but just don't give a shit anymore: wrestling, hip-hop, and then there's other stuff like the problems with the furry fandom, the need for a less money-obsessed society, etc, where I'm gradually saying less about those specifically as it becomes more apparent (to me) that there's already tonnes of people doing a way better job of tackling those specific issues. And besides, there's gotta be some root to all of these common problems, right? So I'm trying very hard to figure out what that is. People way smarter/more experienced than me are still trying.

Certain problems that seem innate to this generation (the millennials), of which I am a part, problems and all, yeah, obviously those are of immediate concern to me so I want to know as much about what the hell we're going to do to save our own asses in the mean time as well as what made us the way we are so we know what mistakes not to repeat for future generations.


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## Ozriel (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh lawdy, not this topic again.


Otherkin and Therians are not analgous to each other.

For Therianthropy theres "New Age" and "old World". Most of the youthfags today go by "New age" Therianthropy, and a lot of the community doesn't actually know the orgins of it.

Otherkin deal with Reincarnation and mythical Creatures and Animals.

After doing some reading and research, I left the decadent and weak community. As I see it, it's just a fanclub for people who want to feel special about themselves when their own lives are about as exciting as a sclice of white bread.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 9, 2009)

And they're youthfags, and always will be, because the ones who could show them a better way inevitably get fed up and abandon it to the internet politicians and sociopaths.


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## Ozriel (Sep 9, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> And they're youthfags, and always will be, because the ones who could show them a better way inevitably get fed up and abandon it to the internet politicians and sociopaths.



Pretty much.

I got verbally flamed at AC this year because I laughed at some of them and tried to educate some.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 9, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> I got verbally flamed at AC this year because I laughed at some of them and tried to educate some.



What's that, anthrocon? You shouldn't have expected serious therianthropy/otherkin there in the first place. We need a better community than what's out there on the buttfuck, fringiest of the fringe internet, but we're not gonna find that in furry.


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## Ozriel (Sep 9, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> What's that, anthrocon? You shouldn't have expected serious therianthropy/otherkin there in the first place. We need a better community than what's out there on the buttfuck, fringiest of the fringe internet, but we're not gonna find that in furry.



Yes Anthrocon.

Half of me wanted to partially troll them. If you would have seen the meditation circle, you would have shit bricks before taking a brick and cracking the heads of each person there with a brick...I left the circle to go find a group lighting up a hookah after 15 minutes, and met up with my friends for lunch.

Finding a community that hasn't been tainted is hard. I tried and the ones I've come across have been touched by dieases brought by the newfags. Their skin has weakened and each one that comes it have even weaker skin and wierder than the rest.


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## Trpdwarf (Sep 9, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> You're leaving out the therians who don't really see a distinction between a human soul and an animal soul. Probably because, in a typical western mindset, the concept is foreign to you even as you're talking about some "true" "original" therianthropy that you're convinced was practiced by cultures whose history is largely lost to time. The best way I can think of to describe it is, "human" or "wolf" souls are to *soul* as certain colors are to *light*. While the "truest", unfiltered "pure" light is white, it is still made up of all the colors of the spectrum, even if all you see is white. Similarly, some therians "shift" from the "human" side of the spectrum to the "animal" side, while others are always locked in the "animal" side, while others still are locked in the "human" side yet intuitively are aware of the "animal" side.
> 
> So, let me make it clear to you, if it's not already. *My* therianthropy doesn't negate/deny the human essence any more than *theirs* did, if these people you speak of even existed in the way you think they do. You'll find the same is true of a lot of therians (I wish I could say most but I honestly don't know about them as a group anymore). That being said, one thing my therianthropy has in common with that of many of those of the "20 year-ish" group, which has been true for as long as I've been in it, is we *do* tend to frown upon cultural misappropriation, plastic shamanism, romanticizing cultures one doesn't belong to/knows little about, and perpetuating the noble-savage mindset. It's in extremely poor taste.
> 
> ...


I leave it out because I was avoiding a Tl;dr by going on the most basic generalizations.

I've never seen this looking down on misappropriation. For the most part I have seen youthfags over taking entire sites, forums, ect and chasing out anyone who disagrees with their blatant idiocy.

I don't seek to piss people off Wolf Bone. Unfortunately a lot of "Kin" don't like anything that didn't come from the mouth of a Graymuzzle who can only claims membership to a group that is no more than two decades old. We've been through this, it's a waste of time butting heads me and you.


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## Ilayas (Sep 9, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Oh lawdy, not this topic again.
> 
> 
> Otherkin and Therians are not analgous to each other.
> ...




Hey now that's pretty damn insulting to bread.


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## Ozriel (Sep 9, 2009)

Ilayas said:


> Hey now that's pretty damn insulting to bread.



lol.

Okay, then bland, danish white clay.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 9, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Oh lawdy, not this topic again.



That's why I posted this up in "Off Topic" because I knew this kind of thread has probably popped up a few times already (you know, this being a furry site and all.), and Off Topic doesn't seem to get that much traffic.  



Wolf-Bone said:


> If I thought it might actually sell more than a few copies, maybe it _would_ justify what would amount to me jerking off in people's faces as some kind of "guru". But there are some things I want to do that could be of better benefit, like starting my own website, and with it, another corner of the "were" community. It needs some fresh blood/ideas. Actually, what the lot of us internet "fringe" types could stand to become is less fringe, and I think between furries, otherkin, therians, and probably even some others I'm not considering, there are those of us who have enough in common in terms of worldview/goals/*maturity* that if we came together, we could sort've help each other instead of *use* each other, which I find is common in all these fringe groups and it's destructive to everyone. So I definitely want to set up some kind of beacon that points this out and, hopefully, can point us in a better direction.
> 
> I also got an idea for a sequential art series that draws pretty heavily on at least _my_ therianthropy, but while that does include a lot of what I picked up being around other therians, it's something more for anybody who likes fantasy stories with parallels to the real world than "just for us" <--- the mentality that creates fringe groups in the first place.



I think there is a fanbase you could reach, but it does seem to be a competitive area, so, yeah, you're right, you wouldn't get very many sales.



Wolf-Bone said:


> And they're youthfags, and always will be, because the ones who could show them a better way inevitably get fed up and abandon it to the internet politicians and sociopaths.



Damn young people and their rock n roll music.


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## Amino (Sep 10, 2009)

Does it matter? While we're at it, let's try to define the difference between an idiot and a moron.


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## Carenath (Sep 10, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> What's that, anthrocon? You shouldn't have expected serious therianthropy/otherkin there in the first place. We need a better community than what's out there on the buttfuck, fringiest of the fringe internet, but we're not gonna find that in furry.


And yet, by and large, you get serious dragonkin attending Anthrocon.
The same serious dragonkin that hang on FA, and get the high faves, views and comments.
The same serious dragonkin who draw some of the best artwork, because they know anatomy.

The real illusion out there, is that there is any serious seperation between otherkin, therians and furries, we all fall under the same 'supergroup' because we all share a number of traits in common. Of course, furry being an interest group that anyone can be a part of, speaks for itself, therians and otherkin are mutually exclusive, and not so open.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 10, 2009)

Amino said:


> Does it matter? While we're at it, let's try to define the difference between an idiot and a moron.


 
I just want to know if someone says they have a spiritual connection to a wolf, would that make them a therian or otherkin?


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## Ozriel (Sep 10, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> I just want to know if someone says they have a spiritual connection to a wolf, would that make them a therian or otherkin?



That'll either make them some shmoe wanting to be tied to totemism or a furfag.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 10, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> That'll either make them some shmoe wanting to be tied to totemism or a furfag.


 
What if they say they "feel" more than Human?


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## Ozriel (Sep 10, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> What if they say they "feel" more than Human?



Then their fat, lonely reject retards with less than mundane lives. :V


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 10, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Then their fat, lonely reject retards with less than mundane lives. :V


 
Well they do say they have no friends and they are obese. How did you know?


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## Ozriel (Sep 10, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Well they do say they have no friends and they are obese. How did you know?



Youtube. :V

That and some are thinner than I am and look like they haven't seen the sun in a LONG time.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 10, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Youtube. :V


 
What YouTube profile?


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## Ozriel (Sep 10, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> What YouTube profile?



You are going to have to search through a sea of them. I can bring up one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-N5Bu0plvA&feature=related


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 10, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> You are going to have to search through a sea of them. I can bring up one.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-N5Bu0plvA&feature=related


 

Huh... people who spout this kind of stuff seem to be lonely fat people who have no friends. Interesting.


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## Ozriel (Sep 10, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Huh... people who spout this kind of stuff seem to be lonely fat people who have no friends. Interesting.



There's also a thread in the LD about Vampires and Therians.

A greymuzzle who comes in and ask questions: Flamed
A person who ask questions: Flamed
A person who states the obvious: Flamed.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 11, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> There's also a thread in the LD about Vampires and Therians.
> 
> A greymuzzle who comes in and ask questions: Flamed
> A person who ask questions: Flamed
> A person who states the obvious: Flamed.


 
Link.


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## Ozriel (Sep 11, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Link.



I can't post the link ATM (because of the computer), but I'll try to or see if Trp can give it to me.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 11, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> I can't post the link ATM (because of the computer), but I'll try to or see if Trp can give it to me.


 
Appreciate it.


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## hisgooddog (Sep 11, 2009)

*THERIAN ALERT*

wow there is a lot of offensive therian hate on here.
Sorry if you guys ever dealt with snobs or jerks or something that to make it a touchy subject, but:
We're not all douche bags.
At all.

Then again I don't chat with other therians on IRC or whateverthefuck so maybe I just haven't talked to the actual jerks. The eople on werelist however have always been quite nice and supportive of just about everything.

Anyway.
The differences between the two often times has boiled down to who you speak to. What people don't realize is (to my knowledge) originally when this all started up online, said group of people simply referred to themselves as otherkin. Therianism, as in being used as a term for people like myself, developed later.

Therians will range on their answer of what they are, but the basics is this (though both are not needed, nor is it one or the other):
+ you connect to nonhuman qualities in an animal(s), sometimes so heavily that you can 'feel/see/smell/etc' along those lines
+ you feel there is a part of you that in nonhuman in some sense

as it's stated on the werelist forums:
_
Therianthrope: A person who is, feels, or believes he/she is in part or whole (non-physically) one or more non-human animals on an integral, personal level._

Otherkin, to my knowledge, believe they reincarnated recently from an animal, or have an 'animal soul'. Once again, both are not mandatory nor is one or the other, etcetcetc.

While I'm not an otherkin, I can understand that belief simply due to the fact that so many other beliefs and/or religions that recognize reincarnation beleive we start at the beginning of the chain and simply work out way up until we're a being of light/energy (or what have you). If this was the case, then if you had only been nonhuman in your reincarnations recently (as many beliefs run with the idea that you can't hop back 'down' the chain of intelligence/reason/self awareness/spiritual awareness/etc) and ae new to the human thing or have only been one a few life cycles, then it makes quite a bit of sense. Or at least to me.

Personally my therianism does (not bullshit, and if you're going to flame me, I'd rather you note me or talk like a mature individual and just have a debate) play into my spiritual practices, but so do many, many other things and many other pieces of other religions. I'm a very mix-bag pagan, so it works well.

And for those of you just scoffing in general at therianism and personal belief systems, I suggest you get out of the chat rooms (which I don't use because they're usually quite myownlittlegroup run and often have nothing to do with the subject at hand, sadly) and get on werelist and talk to some of the old crowd on there, as well as researching a bit into shamanism in various cultures. I think it might help to bring some sense to the whole thing.

If I came off as a dick in this at all, it wasn't my intention. I just think with all the people out there thinking furries are freaks and lumping all of us (furries, therians, otherkin, etc) together due to ignorance on the subject (not their fault, really, after all I don't see many teaching them any better) it just seems pretty stupid to all be fighting just because we're

oh shit

different.


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## hisgooddog (Sep 11, 2009)

and wow I just scrolled back a few pages and realized I missed the whole party. Sorry if anything I said was a] repeated or b] out of line.

Just on the sleepy side is all, though that's no excuse.


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## Trpdwarf (Sep 11, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Appreciate it.



You may need to have an account or create one in order to view these but here you go:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/lif...ampire-a-lifestyle-support-thread/t.53413007/

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/lif...opy-support-for-the-proud-therian/t.49532907/


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## Ozriel (Sep 12, 2009)

hisgooddog said:


> *THERIAN ALERT*


<------Greymuzzle


I dealt with the elitists who were the classic case of "I do not get out much" and had the gall to flame other Greys in at attempt to drive them out because we caught a lot of shitters.


What you follow is the Neo version of it.


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## Attaman (Sep 12, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> [snip]


  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Therianism older than the internet?

Also, I am not going to try speaking with any otherkins hisgooddog.  First, I am very skeptical about spirits in general.  Strike one against me.  Second, I see humanity as superior to animals:  Strike two, _especially_ if I have the misfortune of walking into one of the chats about how horrible humanity.  Third, you didn't give any chat-rooms to check.  This on its own wouldn't be a major problem (just look around for chat-rooms), but that leads me to:  Fourth, I have seen Otherkin zealots.  A lot.  I'd rather eat my socks than risk jumping into a room full of them.


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## Ozriel (Sep 12, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Therianism older than the internet?



Over 20,000 years older than our present civilization. Therianthropy was a jointed practice of the other pagan religions. At one point, Christianity had it before it was condemned as Satanic arts of the Devil, and was practiced with Islam at one point, but they did not believe that they were not human at all.


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## hisgooddog (Sep 12, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Over 20,000 years older than our present civilization. Therianthropy was a jointed practice of the other pagan religions. At one point, Christianity had it before it was condemned as Satanic arts of the Devil, and was practiced with Islam at one point, but they did not believe that they were not human at all.



Zeke I'm gonna note you. The more knowledge I can dig up, the better.


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## Ozriel (Sep 12, 2009)

hisgooddog said:


> Zeke I'm gonna note you. The more knowledge I can dig up, the better.



Kay.


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 12, 2009)

It's just awesome how he says this without even providing links to evidence that could be scrutinized though.


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## Ozriel (Sep 12, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> It's just awesome how he says this without even providing links to evidence that could be scrutinized though.



Ya know, it doesn't take an idiot to learn how to pick up a book and read.

Stop acting like a Christian fag and do some reading.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 12, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> You may need to have an account or create one in order to view these but here you go:
> 
> http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/lif...ampire-a-lifestyle-support-thread/t.53413007/
> 
> http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/lif...opy-support-for-the-proud-therian/t.49532907/



That's part of my plan. Thank you for the links.


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## Triad Fox (Sep 12, 2009)

The difference between a therian and an otherkin is that one is generally bipolar and the other is generally schizophrenic. The fun is figuring out which one is which. :3


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## Wolf-Bone (Sep 12, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Ya know, it doesn't take an idiot to learn how to pick up a book and read.
> 
> Stop acting like a Christian fag and do some reading.



I read tonnes. It just, I can't find much on this *fringe bullshit* on *the internet*, let alone a legitimate, not-sketchy source like *a library or bookstore*.


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## Ozriel (Sep 12, 2009)

Wolf-Bone said:


> I read tonnes. It just, I can't find much on this *fringe bullshit* on *the internet*, let alone a legitimate, not-sketchy source like *a library or bookstore*.



<-----Librarian

Unless you enjoy following the alt.horror.net site's views.

You have to go through the Theology areas, if not Theology, then Anthropology.
Most sources in a Library is based on Bias sources, especially if it is talking about anything other than Christian.


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