# Why FA was down, but is up again now



## dave hyena (Jul 25, 2007)

Edit:

See preyfar's post/s in this thread:

http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=10970

(Preyfar and the Dragoneer are one and the same person, just different characters/nicks for the same guy, just for reference  )


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## verix (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Hi Dave.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Yay Preyfar for fixing things ^.=.^ you gets a hug *hugs*

and thanks to you to for the update Dave ^.=.^ you also get hugs *hug* ^.=.^

others may be cynical, but i have blind faith in our admins, and thats good enough for me, I haven't seen enough bad from you guys to doubt your ability to pull FA from this debacle.

Good luck!


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## themocaw (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Ahhh, drama.

This sucks.


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## Bokracroc (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Haha. This is awesome. Nearly the whole FA team is ran by a bunch of 11y olds with coding skills.
(Ps. Before anyone asks, the forums are on a different server)


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## DARKWOLFE (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> http://preyfar.livejournal.com/667354.html
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thats a bit of relief to know whats going on i was afraid that the site got hacked big time ,i was a bit alarmed at the thought of fa going down for good so shortly after i had joined it and got to thinking of it as my home away from home *so to speak*


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## Nightingalle (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

I hope it gets back up soon, this is all rediculous.. Ah thanks for the update though Dave


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## themocaw (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Question, in other words, the server data and information is safe, but the domain name is the only thing that was lost?

If so, I recommend that, when what was Furaffinity resurrects, the new domain name be "Alkoraisadouchebag.com"  Succint and easy to remember.


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## sad_kathras (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				Bokracroc said:
			
		

> a bunch of 11y olds with coding skills.



I sincerely doubt that last bit, but then again I have high expectations.


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## themocaw (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Question, in other words, the server data and information is safe, but the domain name is the only thing that was lost?

If so, I recommend that, when what was Furaffinity resurrects, the new domain name be "Alkoraisadouchebag.com"  Succint and easy to remember.


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## net-cat (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

$10K says Alkora is fapping to this.

Windows users can run this to work around this fuckery on their own computers:

Use at your own risk

Basically, it adds FA's IP address and domain names to your hosts file. Your old hosts file is stored as "host.prefafix" if it doesn't already exist.

To uninstall, this. Again, your own risk.


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## SilverAutomatic (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				themocaw said:
			
		

> If so, I recommend that, when what was Furaffinity resurrects, the new domain name be "Alkoraisadouchebag.com"  Succint and easy to remember.



I second this motion XD

I've got half a mind to do a little digging on the net and send a very nasty e-mail or two.


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## Tensik (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Yeah, it is good to know that people who spend good money on keeping this place alive should always have a place to call home, isn't it, Dragoneer.  *chuckles*  

That said, I'm 3 hours away from the kid, if you need a face to face representitive to help get this place back online, let me know.


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## cesarin (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

woah woah, alkora going again like a pussy?
that guy seriusly as no balls..
anything that happens, cries, makes drama, locks the site like he owns it.. and dumps the entire community so they can "cry" for how much suffering jheryn is suffering IRL :/
pretty pathetic..


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## Bokracroc (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				sad_kathras said:
			
		

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Ok, fine.
A bunch of 11yr olds with _mild collective_ of coding skills.


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## Fiz (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Yea, as if sending out nasty e-mails and making an insulting domain name is gonna halp the situation. lol


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## Summercat (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

http://neonphoenix.info/fa.html


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## Artic (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down/ How to acess it now*

FA was down for an hour... but now people can post pictures of theit characters not being able to eat their sandwiches again XD

All is well.


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## TORA (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

Not to take sides, but you may want to read this.

http://p4ve.livejournal.com/10812.html


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## Miriafox (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*

FurAffinity.org is still not reserved. Just buy it, transfer over, done. I bet it won't cost you 8,000$ either.
10,000$ for Furaffinity's domain? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I mean seriously, this isn't the 90s anymore, Enron stock lost it's worth. It's not NFL.com.


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## SilverAutomatic (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				Fiz said:
			
		

> Yea, as if sending out nasty e-mails and making an insulting domain name is gonna halp the situation. lol



XD

Would sure as hell make me feel better though!

You'd be surprised what kind of info you can find on google Xd


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## *morningstar (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down, but safe & how to acess it now*

Forgive me, but considering that Jheryn is doing this, I'm really not too surprised. Looks like he's going to have to change his name again when everyone finds out.

Thank you Dragoneer for being so dedicated to us.


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## iller (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				TORA said:
			
		

> Not to take sides, but you may want to read this.
> 
> http://p4ve.livejournal.com/10812.html




If that's the case, then why did he try to *SELL* a non profit .net site for Profit??  Crap in his walls is no excuse to Pawn off something that was built on Donations.   Let's assume Drag overreacted... so what... Over-reacting happens every 5 minutes in "furry".  But selling off something that everyone else also kicked money into?   For that matter, how acceptable is it to take back something you donated and sell it off based on some bullshit estimation of the latest total-package value?   Sorry but that doesn't work with something that is greater than the sum of it's parts:  AKA *Artwork*.


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## ScyStorm (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				TORA said:
			
		

> Not to take sides, but you may want to read this.
> 
> http://p4ve.livejournal.com/10812.html



Ha ha ha.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh wow.


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## SilverAutomatic (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				iller said:
			
		

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Not to mention the part where selling anything built on donations for profit is ILLEGAL and punishable by jail time. It can fall under Fraud or Misuse of donated funds.

Heh, both should get your name on a little folder marked 'under investigation'.


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## Vgm22 (Jul 25, 2007)

I just wanna know something. It seems people are taking sides. What side are you on? Dragoneer's Or Alkora's A.K.A Jheryn? I'm on Dragoneer's side all the way.


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## SilverAutomatic (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm not taking either side personally. As far as i'm concerned this is just one more chapter in the furry drama book.

Congrats guys, we'll have a book of world records page for us soon enough.


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## themocaw (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				ScyStorm said:
			
		

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http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3904/blackmoldav7.jpg


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## Linoth (Jul 25, 2007)

It appears everything is back up for the moment.  Either an agreement was made, or Alkora has been watching the forums and noticed that... well, we got around that little DNS hijack, and nothing was accomplished.


			
				iller said:
			
		

> If that's the case, then why did he try to *SELL* a non profit .net site for Profit??  Crap in his walls is no excuse to Pawn off something that was built on Donations.   Let's assume Drag overreacted... so what... Over-reacting happens every 5 minutes in "furry".  But selling off something that everyone else also kicked money into?   For that matter, how acceptable is it to take back something you donated and sell it off based on some bullshit estimation of the latest total-package value?   Sorry but that doesn't work with something that is greater than the sum of it's parts:  AKA *Artwork*.


1.) Buy domain of popular furry-related website and direct to goatse
2.) ?????
3.) Lulz.  Nuthin' but lulz.

Actually, if you replace "goatse" with "craptastic load of advertisements" and "Lulz" with "Revenue", it stays true.


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## *morningstar (Jul 25, 2007)

Vgm22 said:
			
		

> I just wanna know something. It seems people are taking sides. What side are you on? Dragoneer's Or Alkora's A.K.A Jheryn? I'm on Dragoneer's side all the way.



There are really no sides to this, but if you really want to look at it that way, it can be IRRATIONAL GREED V.S. FA COMMUNITY! FIGHT!


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## Vgm22 (Jul 25, 2007)

*morningstar said:
			
		

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Well from the one AIM log that I read on someones LJ. The comments to said journal have it that people are taking Alkora side and calling Preyfur an ass.


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## Dan Skunk (Jul 25, 2007)

Strange how there's always two sides to a story. Looks like there's some missunderstanding going on somewhere.

There appears to be an agreement that an offer to sell the domain was made though--which is the issue. Can't really blame someone for asking if they need the money, but one could just turn down the offer. It's not like the name is that important or can't be changed.


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## DigitalMan (Jul 25, 2007)

I don't know much about what's going on or has been going on with the site (heck, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the current sandwich obsession), so I'm not taking sides just yet.

However, I have to say. Holding the website hostage? Freaking awesome move. I thought for sure he would win this battle. Seriously, Jark on DA should've taken an approach like that.

But then it turns out, the "owner" only actually owns the domain name. And someone pulls out a direct link to the server, oh-ho! Another brilliant move. Workaround FTW

It's pointless to be staff on a website that won't work, but then it's also pointless to bring a site down if someone else is controlling the servers. Assuming what I've seen here is accurate, Dragoneer would absolutely pwn Alkora in court; owning a domain name doesn't give you rights to any data or coding used under that name, if you don't own the servers.


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## SilverAutomatic (Jul 25, 2007)

Vgm22 said:
			
		

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I'm taking that journal/chat log with a grain of salt. Alot of that stuff doesn't add up at all for me and seems completely twisted/biased.

My issue with that log is that I wasn't face to face with the person who was talking, so I wasn't able to monitor body language and ask the questions that would draw out more truth or cause the person to trip over a suspected lie.

I just don't trust it.


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## ScyStorm (Jul 25, 2007)

Vgm22 said:
			
		

> Well from the one AIM log that I read on someones LJ. The comments to said journal have it that people are taking Alkora side and calling Preyfur an ass.



Am I supposed to be surprised by this? I've watched Jheryn's idiotic trips in the past when FA was up and down, and I can tell as good as anyone with half a brain that he has no push in this particular dramatastic situation. I don't believe a damn thing he's saying in that chat log, and the fact that Pave basically said he's going to manipulate all the people who +watch him, his boyfriend, and some of his "inner circle of artists" is pretty disgusting to me. I've watched mindless furries surrender their opinions to any random asshole who happens to be a great artist simply because they are great artists, so I know as well as he apparently does that it'd work and get people on the fattyfatfat's side.

Man I hate furries.

Who wants Krispy Kremes? :3


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## *morningstar (Jul 25, 2007)

Vgm22 said:
			
		

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There's a lot of people who will blindly take sides and jump on bandwagons during arguments or controversy without understanding or caring what they're supporting.


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## Vgm22 (Jul 25, 2007)

Well I figured Alkora would pull the gather up all my friends against Dragoneer thing as that's what he did the last time. -rolls eyes- Well let's just be glad FA is back up and we don't have to leave and go to FAP. Cause I bet that's where we'll all end up if FA does go down for good. Which I doubt.


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## Bokracroc (Jul 25, 2007)

Black Mold ain't cool. We had it on our bathroom counter once when I was 8-ish. We got sick from it.
The counter was totally replaced and we got a fan put in to stop the moisture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stachybotrys
http://www.doctorfungus.org/thefungi/stachybotrys.htm

Dragoneer doesn't own the servers himself, hence why they are called 'Co-owners'.


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## Seratuhl (Jul 25, 2007)

*morningstar said:
			
		

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Internet Furry Civil Warfare!!!
Let the good times roll with the severed heads!!!!


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## Vgm22 (Jul 25, 2007)

Seratuhl said:
			
		

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LMAO! XD


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## Neofur (Jul 25, 2007)

Miriafox said:
			
		

> FurAffinity.org is still not reserved. Just buy it, transfer over, done. I bet it won't cost you 8,000$ either.
> 10,000$ for Furaffinity's domain? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
> I mean seriously, this isn't the 90s anymore, Enron stock lost it's worth. It's not NFL.com.



I Did a quick search while reading through this drama and found this. LOL 





And this...


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## TehSean (Jul 25, 2007)

I know what we should do. We should let the people who donated money present a receipt and vote. Yes. That is the ticket!


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## SachiCoon (Jul 25, 2007)

Well! Since the admins on furaffinity have gone bat shit insane, does anybody out there recommend a good art site I can upload my art onto that ISN'T deviantart?


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## Vgm22 (Jul 25, 2007)

SachiCoon said:
			
		

> Well! Since the admins on furaffinity have gone bat shit insane, does anybody out there recommend a good art site I can upload my art onto that ISN'T deviantart?



There's FAP. Furry Art Pile.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

They already own a backup domain, so I wouldn't worry.


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Vgm22 said:
			
		

> I just wanna know something. It seems people are taking sides. What side are you on? Dragoneer's Or Alkora's A.K.A Jheryn? I'm on Dragoneer's side all the way.



Heh... as I'm sure y'know "sides" are kinda pointless in this.

*shakes head*
d.


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## Threetails (Jul 25, 2007)

I must disclaim that I'm not 100% sure that this was Jheryn or someone with a similar name, but...

Either Jheryn or someone with a name similar to that was kicked out of one of my friends' apartment in the Twin Cities area last year for not getting a job and paying his share of the rent, and for messy housekeeping.

If it was him, then the lack of money and abundance of black mold is probably his doing, and he has no excuses.


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## Dan Skunk (Jul 25, 2007)

SachiCoon said:
			
		

> Well! Since the admins on furaffinity have gone bat shit insane, does anybody out there recommend a good art site I can upload my art onto that ISN'T deviantart?



Furnation seems to be doing something very similar. They've always been really cool to me.

I used to just look at stuff on usenet all the time. It worked fine enough. Seems any time you get someone owning a forum, you end up with people forcing their opinions on others and causing a lot of anger and frustration. No one owns usenet.( http://www.tigress.com/furrynet/ )

And you could always just put stuff on your own site and share links with everyone.


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## dq405 (Jul 25, 2007)

SachiCoon said:
			
		

> Well! Since the admins on furaffinity have gone bat shit insane, does anybody out there recommend a good art site I can upload my art onto that ISN'T deviantart?



I would hope that this little mess can be cleaned up, and that you would stay here. I, for one, would miss you, if you chose to leave....


Mark


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## Miriafox (Jul 25, 2007)

Neofur said:
			
		

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Ahahahahahahahaha.. I knew it! For less then the cost of four bottles of Tilex Mold Remover you too can own FurAffinity.org.


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Miriafox said:
			
		

> Ahahahahahahahaha.. I knew it! For less then the cost of four bottles of Tilex Mold Remover you too can own FurAffinity.org.



And you just posted "Plz stop the drama on this porn/art/story/photography/lulz site. Srsly, I don't think it's necessary." on your FA journal? 

Sorry, but that's a rather silly comparison, nothing to do with "own" and we're not even furaffinity.org in the first instance.
Sure; I plugged in yahoo.com (the /right/ one) and it gave me an "Estimated Domain Value" of $150. I'll give you a couple of $100 bills and be expecting change... 

Possibly better to sanity-check first before making blushworthy comments, IMHO?
d.


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## IanKeith (Jul 25, 2007)

More drama, this is frickin' awesome. I love this.


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## Rave (Jul 25, 2007)

This whole issue of ownership probably needed to be settled sooner or later. So it's better now than later after the new code and even more money has been pumped into the site. Sadly, all art sites that get big have to have such issues settled eventually - see Jark / DA drama.  

Jheryn/Alkora's personal issues or money needs are not the concern or responsibility of the community in any case. If he personally needs money, that's just too bad. Join the club. 

He is evidently deluded into thinking the domain name has thousands of dollars of value, when it obviously just doesn't, and decided that cashing in was worth more than whatever FA related glory he had left. Fine. 

But if, back in Reality Land, the site name actually turns out to only be worth twenty bucks, that's also his problem. And he can just deal with it while the rest of us move on with an art community.


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## yak (Jul 25, 2007)

Vgm22 said:
			
		

> I just wanna know something. It seems people are taking sides. What side are you on? Dragoneer's Or Alkora's A.K.A Jheryn? I'm on Dragoneer's side all the way.





			
				Orlith Nemeth said:
			
		

> Yay Preyfar for fixing things ^.=.^ you gets a hug *hugs*
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> and thanks to you to for the update Dave ^.=.^ you also get hugs *hug* ^.=.^
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				*morningstar said:
			
		

> Forgive me, but considering that Jheryn is doing this, I'm really not too surprised. Looks like he's going to have to change his name again when everyone finds out.
> 
> Thank you Dragoneer for being so dedicated to us.



Of all the times i was tolerant and silent to such blanket and un-deserved thanks, this is probably the hardest moment in my entire life. 
It greatly pains me to see that some of the community still thinks that there's only Dragoneer to FA. Pains me so much that it's becoming unbearable. 

I only wish i could share some detail with you. But unfortunately, or thankfully - i cannot bring myself to doing so even in the light of the current events.

Just know that there are two poisoned daggers in the back of the administration, and not one.


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## WolfDragon69 (Jul 25, 2007)

Now, I am not very active on FA, as I lack much if any artistic talent. I am even less active on the forums, due to lack of interest in most goings on. I do not have a great insight into the inner working of things, and generally tend to lurk most times. Please take this message and its questions with a grain of salt, for it is simple personal curiosity driving me to write this.

As I understand it, there are a few separate issues regarding this. One, the ownership of the domain name. Two, the ownership of FA code. Three, the legality of it all. Finally, four, the issues of who stabbed who in the back.

On one: Does Alkora/Kheryn own the FA website's current domain? A relatively simple question. If he does, he has a right to sell or trade said domain for its value, perceived or otherwise. The domain and code of the site are separate entities in so far as I know about such things. As for it being in relation to the total value of the site, or it's being a Not-For-Profit site, that is a separate issue and will be asked about on question three.

On two: Who owns the FA site's code? If it was a collaborative effort, then so far as I know, each owns a proportional share. On the subject of selling such code, unless it was stated that the individual's designed code was only being lent or rented to said site, and not given to the site, the sites being not for profit would take hold. (See third question below)

On three: On legality and those issues, I would question my own knowledge of this, as issues of digital copyright, ownership, and management are not my forte. I know the following however: Owning a domain name of a site and owning the sites code, database, and servers are separate issues and separate ownership titles. I do ask if anyone knows differently for certain, and can point me to hard facts, that they do so. As for being Not-For-Profit, and with the askance previous to this sentence in mind, going by strict definitions, you can get all invested monies back, penny for literal penny, on a project, and can elect to take less, but cannot make any profit what so ever and still fit under the same NFP definition. Once again, correct me if I am wrong.

On four: In the end, those are personal issues in my opinion. I can state my opinion all day long, and that wont change. I can understand the desire to sell a resource for needed funds. I can understand protecting an investment of time and energy. I can also understand misunderstandings and drama blowing up in the face of miscommunication regarding both of the aforementioned. If it is admin, coder, and owner miscommunication and drama, then let it settle. By all means, ask your questions, but please, for the sake of all involved, do so in a polite manner and with patience. If you are any of the aforementioned? Thank you for what you have done to help the furry community. Regardless of the drama, I have enjoyed the fruits of your labor.

I suppose in the end I have these things to say: Thank you for Fur Affinity. Thank you for your work, however great or small it may be on the site. Please settle any disputes with the politeness and etiquette I know you are capable of. Above all, remember this: We are all people, however grand or low we may be, and as such, no one is perfect nor has any rights to claim such.

As stated before, if I am wrong on any of these issues, please, let me know. Point me to facts where you can, and try to inform me of it. I hope FA stays up and that this smoothes over soon. Either way, a good run and a good laugh was had by many.


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## Rave (Jul 25, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> Just know that there are two poisoned daggers in the back of the administration, and not one.



There are even MORE layers of drama to all this? And you can't even tell us about it!?? Can't FA's admins ever settle things once and for all? Damn... 

Anyway, for what it's worth I never thought that it was all JUST Dragoneer. But it's evidently hard to tell what is going on or who does what in general behind the scenes lately too as it is. And now you speak as if sworn to silence about some evil conspiracy or something anyway. This is getting maddening for us poor donors and users. What in the world is really going on??


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## Bokracroc (Jul 25, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

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Step up to the plate man!
I have rarely seen you step up and shout your input into all of these issues! The fact here is that Preyfar/Dragoneer is the face of FA. People will think of him first unless you make yourself known.


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## Kaiva (Jul 25, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> The fact here is that Preyfar/Dragoneer is the face of FA. People will think of him first unless you make yourself known.



MY thoughts exactly, not too many of us realise that FA has a STAFF of individuals who make the site what it is

that and the "code ninjas" do seem to keep a very very low profile, so I'm not surprised you guys get overlooked so much but if its worth anything, I appreciate the work the code crew does to keep the site up and working ^ ^

Also, I'd like to beg for info too, it sounds like were not getting the full picture here


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## Bokracroc (Jul 25, 2007)

Kaiva said:
			
		

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Yeah. Who knows who Crypto is?


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Yeah. Who knows who Crypto is?



Project manager for Ferrox, for a start.


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## dave hyena (Jul 25, 2007)

Kaiva said:
			
		

> Also, I'd like to beg for info too, it sounds like were not getting the full picture here



There will be a status update about this. But as it is, it's mostly debates and disussion "behind-the-scenes" at the moment, and it needs a bit of time to hammer something out I think.

I know that there are absolutely no plans for FA to have any down time or other service interruptions in the meanwhile though.


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## Bokracroc (Jul 25, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

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Not you 

I mean Joe/Jane Anybody.

I remember him from posting in a Drama thread sometime last year. He also posted in the latest 'WHERE'S FERROX?' thread (because in it replied with it being bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.)

At most the average might show some initiative and go to the Staff page. Some may search the Member List.

Those who know what Google is and how to use some basic searching skill, Google comes back with this:




Now that Search actually searched , Crypto boasts a whole 8 posts this year.


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## Kaiva (Jul 25, 2007)

In that case I think I will continue my usual FA usage without worry, while I wait for the update.

Hopefully they can reach an agreement or something without incident...


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Now that Search actually searched , Crypto boasts a whole 8 posts this year.



Could make a case for saying that's a smart enough idea; to keep efforts focused more on Ferrox development without getting too badly diverted on his post count over here, no?


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## Vgm22 (Jul 25, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

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I know that Dragoneer isn't the only one, but it seems that the matter at hand is between him and Alkora. I give thx to all the other admins and who else ever helps run the site, keeps it up and keeps it peaceful and civil, but Dragoneer like Bokracroc said is the face of FA.
As most of us can assoiciate with him or something like that.


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## brokenfox (Jul 25, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

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Hay, I'm sorry you feel that way Yak, I really am. I'm not sure what is going on behind the scenes (obviously) but I wonder what you mean by two poison daggers? But in any event I am not one of those Admin/Coder hating users on FA. It may not be popular opinion but for the most part I think you guys are doing the best job you can do and deserve more credit then you get. When anything goes wrong everyone grabs there drama pitchforks and torches and runs off complaining about the coders and admins. But I think you guys all deserve thanks for keeping FA alive. I love this place and I support it as much as I possibly can I want to see it live on and prosper, I would hate to see it die. 

Well anyways for what it is worth thanks Yak, and the rest of the FA team. And please keep us informed on what is going on when you can.


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## themocaw (Jul 25, 2007)

Regarding taking sides, I don't want to do it because it will cause more drama, and both sides, honestly, are kind of being feminine hygeiene products, but I will say this: out of the two camps, one took actions that prevented me from jerking my gherkin to deviant semi-bestiality artwork featuring weirdly proportioned animal women, and the other camp didn't.

Guess which one I hate more.


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## yak (Jul 25, 2007)

Foxstar said:
			
		

> Yak, don't hold shit back, you know that will only boost the lulz when it all comes out in the end.





			
				Rave said:
			
		

> There are even MORE layers of drama to all this? And you can't even tell us about it!?? Can't FA's admins ever settle things once and for all? Damn...
> 
> Anyway, for what it's worth I never thought that it was all JUST Dragoneer. But it's evidently hard to tell what is going on or who does what in general behind the scenes lately too as it is. And now you speak as if sworn to silence about some evil conspiracy or something anyway. This is getting maddening for us poor donors and users. What in the world is really going on??





			
				Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Step up to the plate man!
> I have rarely seen you step up and shout your input into all of these issues! The fact here is that Preyfar/Dragoneer is the face of FA. People will think of him first unless you make yourself known.



I will answer you with this.

The reason i am not going to say anything is...
Because it will help nothing, just shed a lot of negative light on people. 
We, I, do not need that to happen. 

In the end, i don't care to prove who's right and who's wrong, nor do i wish to join any side in this miserable little war. 
All i need to know is that by their actions, both sides lead to something that should have never happened. They let their personal debate spill over to the public and cause harm to the community. 
A series of actions from both sides which didn't give much thought about to where thy were going was something i could call highly unprofessional, but that term becomes somewhat a moot point when applied to FA. This..was..wrong.

And i'm sorry, but after seeing that happen any thanks obtain an entirely new, sour aftertaste.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

Yak is Mr. Coder who has a fetish for manly apples.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

themocaw said:
			
		

> Regarding taking sides, I don't want to do it because it will cause more drama, and both sides, honestly, are kind of being feminine hygeiene products, but I will say this: out of the two camps, one took actions that prevented me from jerking my gherkin to deviant semi-bestiality artwork featuring weirdly proportioned animal women, and the other camp didn't.
> 
> Guess which one I hate more.



There is a side to take...I take the side of the community...however there are many different voices to that community and a lot I don't agree with  However, the community is the best side of all, it is one of the reasons I still hang around for better or for worse.


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## Tensik (Jul 25, 2007)

I know a lot of people have said that this is a non-profit site, but remember folks, it's not.  It's not an actual NPO with real bookkeeping and all that fun jazz.  As a matter of fact, they've said before that they wouldn't mind making a few bucks off of the community . . . "with perhaps enough left over to buy us a few beers", I believe was Dragoneer's words.  I don't think any of us would begrudge them a few beers or even a minimal salary for their work here if it was actually documented and a business that all funds were reportable, and "bells and whistles" subscriptions that would keep the site self-sustained and even perhaps turn some profit (for staff or charity use) has been suggested by dozens of people.

Obviously not the same thing as "gimmie $8k to solve my life problems", but making money off the site for personal use wasn't out of the question from either party.

I just hope this is a wakeup call to the FA staff that it's time to stop treating this place as a private diversion and it's time to start treating it like the web community that affects thousands of people that it really is.  "The site is a community site, not a business. I intend to keep it that way. I will not see Fur Affinity go under because somebody wants to auction it off to the highest bidder" doesn't work, Dragoneer.  You can't have it both ways.  You say you own the servers THAT WE PAID FOR, and this is a site that a good deal of us donated to in the past.  That makes it a community site, but you (in the plural, in this case, staff) make the rules that drive off the community members that donate the money to keep the place running and then whine when you don't get enough (which I'll remind you has been echoed before, a lot of people stopped donating when their place here was threatened by the staff itself).

"I gave a lot of money and now because I don't give more, I can't use the site any more" is a call a LOT of the community has heard here recently because of server space and bandwidth.  Sucks to hear it, doesn't it, Dragoneer, when the tide is turned?  Kind of makes you feel like your place in the community isn't appreciated or the money you gave was only good for someone else's fun?

First off, stop hiding stuff on these forums, especially stuff that was posted publically and then you take away.  A few of you *glares at "no more drama to see here folks" staff members* seem to think that editing stuff when it suits you is a good idea.  We gave our dues to what got threatened too and it's worth our while to be able to know what is going on.  All this "lulzdrama" affects our investment as well.  Second, as a community site, let the community actually pull together and solve the problems.  Get off your high horses and stop treating this place like it's YOURS.  Because if it is YOURS, then what you brought on yourselves with Alkora is well deserved and kudos for them.  But if it's OURS and Alkora tried to take it away . . . . 

Make your choice.  Because if FA is a COMMUNITY site, you have a hell of a lot of community members willing and ready to pull together to make sure the home for ALL of us stays.  But if it's just the staff's playground for egos . . . dig yourselves out of this one.


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## Arcturus (Jul 25, 2007)

I am chagrinned. Truly.

I saw this coming from a mile off. Infact, I am pretty sure I told Crypto back in.. 2006, maybe. "Get rid of Jheryn, or he'll do to you guys, what he did to me."

And now look what's happening. FA's future hangs in the balance (sort of) AGAIN.
Jheryn is screwing stuff up. AGAIN.
People are raging against Dragoneer, who has paid small fortunes each month for this.

Ad infinitum...

Drop the ballast, guys, and move boldly forward.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

Arcturus said:
			
		

> I am chagrinned. Truly.
> 
> I saw this coming from a mile off. Infact, I am pretty sure I told Crypto back in.. 2006, maybe. "Get rid of Jheryn, or he'll do to you guys, what he did to me."
> 
> ...



Ironic isn't it? Personal Disagreements aside, I REALLY REALLY did feel sorry for you when you were paying for the server and were getting all that crap.

I think the best one was that you were using donation money for personal commissions, merely because you shared the same address. Funny now how someone's accusations come back to slap him in the face in another way. Karma is a bitch. Accusations made none other by Dragoneer.

So yeah it wasn't a super shock, but I'll admit it is hilarious from a bystander point of view that's watched the site's politics.


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## Arcturus (Jul 25, 2007)

Heheh. Yeah...

Those were the days! When the only things that mattered were dames, and the only dames that mattered were men.


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Let's just say you have an understandable bias, Arc.
That's not the whole story, nor was/is the situation as simple as might be inferred from the evidence you're providing.

(Agreed w/Arshes re. FA1, though, as you know).


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## foxystallion (Jul 25, 2007)

*RE: Why FA is down*



			
				DARKWOLFE said:
			
		

> Dave Hyena said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for this information.  I didn't have a clue!


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## Arcturus (Jul 25, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> Let's just say you have an understandable bias, Arc.
> That's not the whole story, nor was/is the situation as simple as might be inferred from the evidence you're providing.
> 
> (Agreed w/Arshes re. FA1, though, as you know).



The situation IS that simple. Jheryn needs to be given the cold hard boot. A new domain bought if needed. And everything can go on as is.

Not making Dave Hyena an admin, as he's a pompous, arrogant, self-aggrandizing jackass who power trips would be a bonus, but I don't have my hopes up. Admin choices aren't exactly overflowing with sensibilities around here. (Damaratus, Wolfblade, Pinkuh..)

And that, uncia, is my .02 kilos of gold (troy weight)


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## robomilk (Jul 25, 2007)

Look! A journal about it! To collect all the information available together into one place, so people can make their own decisions. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/170626/


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

There is mention that Dragoneer quit, confirm/deny?


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

> And that, uncia, is my .02 kilos of gold (troy weight)
~$480? Thanks for investing so much in the discussion.

Sure and FA "needs" better leadership/administration, some people might also say. Just as easy to magic that one?
(nm) on the rest of that, anyhow.

d.


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> There is mention that Dragoneer quit, confirm/deny?


Given that I'm still waiting even for confirmation on the veracity of the other half of the original backstory, that might take some time.
Or not... _*shrugs and looks around again*_


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## Arcturus (Jul 25, 2007)

Dragoneer has proved to be a competant head admin. He's invested thousands and thousands in this place.

He was good enough to swallow his pride and let me back onto FA. That took a lot of guts to do.

He doesn't seem to jump right into banning random folks for no reason. He's fairly level-headed.

And HE doesn't try and extort nigh on ten grand from someone.

'nuff said, Dragoneer rocks. At least, at controlling the site.

'neer, if you're reading this, remind me at FA:U. I owe you a drink. You deserve one.


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

Heh... Sorry, I thought we were talking about the same person there. My mistake, Arc.


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## *morningstar (Jul 25, 2007)

I apologize, Yak. I know there are many more faces to the FA staff than a single one, but please understand that to me, as a normal site user, he is the only one I see. I check the forums very rarely. In my mind, the forums are a totally separate community of people. As someone who uses FA the vast majority of the time, I really only see Dragoneer acting as an admin. I understand that the coders don't really have anything to do with the community, but at the same time it's also frustrating as a user to see a lot of features on the site that don't really get fixed or addressed.

There is a staff page for the site, but it doesn't have any real information about the administrators and what they do for the site. I'm also aware there's a lot of backstabbing and behind the scenes politics that goes on the administration group. I don't mean to be rude, but perhaps if the other admins, including yourself, would like the credit and thanks for the site that you deserve, then it might make help to make yourselves more visible to normal users who don't go to the forum. I know that without the entire team working to keep this site up, FA would not exist.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

robomilk said:
			
		

> Look! A journal about it! To collect all the information available together into one place, so people can make their own decisions. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/170626/



Get your facts right.


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## Bluefire Dragonz (Jul 25, 2007)

Its really unfair of people to just jump up and say 'I'm for such and such!' when no one knows the whole story.

There are no heroes or villains here, just different people or groups of people with different opinions about what should be done. It also seems to me that some people are being real pricks by tearing down one or the other side with negative comments.

Instead, shouldn't we be saying, "How can we solve this? How can we work out a solution that benefits the most people?"

Yes, if someone has sunk a lot of time and money into a site, he deserves to have a say in what's done with it. On the flip side, someone who's spent hours upon hours hard coding an entire site has a right to ask to be compensated for his efforts. 

Think about it... as an example, say you made a logo for a friend, or even just an acquaintance, and it becomes a integral part of their site and/or business. Isn't it fair to ask for a small fee, in order to give up all rights of ownership of the image to that person?

But it doesn't really matter what I say here, because I highly doubt that what they do or don't do will be affected in any way by the BS people are posting in this thread. If you have a legitimate idea or comment that might help settle the issue, post it. If you're just posting to tell everyone how much of an asshole-pothead one or the other side is... grow up.


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## cesarin (Jul 25, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



let's be honest unciaa, Mfwolf already as been mentioned as "close buddy" of jheryn-alkora..
I wouldn't be surprised if he and his furry inflation fans do the "come together to battle, doesn't matter how ridiculous it is"


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## robomilk (Jul 25, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> robomilk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



<corrected>
So I misread one line of one piece of information. I still did a hell of a lot better than your average tabloid newspaper.


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## themocaw (Jul 25, 2007)

robomilk said:
			
		

> <corrected>
> So I misread one line of one piece of information. I still did a hell of a lot better than your average tabloid newspaper.



Eggplants have more journalistic integrity than tabloid newspapers, so that's not saying much.


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## foxystallion (Jul 25, 2007)

Why do I have an overpowering suspicion that FA just sort of grew organically, with various people doing various things - and that there never were any contracts as to who owned what? No wonder there is so much entropy! When FA was a cub with a two digit budget, ownership issues could be settled over a kitchen table. With a four digit annual budget, things are getting rather sticky. When annual expenditures get to 5 figures - which is inevitable - over 600,000 furry pictures and stories to date - a lack of clear ownership agreements will likely create even nastier drama.

I'd suggest mediation leading to a written contract, except that I doubt that there would be any major parties who would agree to it, let alone everyone who has a dog in this fight.

Without a written contract, FA's future will become more and more unstable as the operating costs and the value of the franchise continue to rise.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

foxystallion said:
			
		

> Without a written contract, FA's future will become more and more unstable as the operating costs and the value of the franchise continue to rise.



Franchise the furry opera...


Welcome MurrDonalds...may I help you, may I help you...may I...
Help you?

I'll have a large sac, 
hermaphrodites...
... and a dong, and a dong...and a
dong


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## Summercat (Jul 25, 2007)

Yak -

As people said, Dragoneer is the visible face of the FurAffinity staff. As such, when people say 'Thank you Dragoneer' they don't neccessarily mean just Dragoneer, but what he represents - the guy in charge of a team of people that run the place.

It's what I mean, anyhow...

...although I've never once thought that Dragoneer was doing this alone. @.@

And there may very well be two sides to this story. However, what evidence I've seen leads me to conclude that Alkora needs a boot to the head.


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## rayvenredfield (Jul 25, 2007)

Ummm.... is anyone else having trouble with the mirror sites that Dave posted? Cause all i get is a white screen of nothingness... >.>


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## Fox Glove (Jul 25, 2007)

Yeah I'm getting the white screen of death too, what's going on? is the site down again?


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## robomilk (Jul 25, 2007)

themocaw said:
			
		

> robomilk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's why I said *a hell of a lot* better.


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## rayvenredfield (Jul 25, 2007)

No more white screen of death! the real FA is back up again.


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## foxystallion (Jul 25, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> foxystallion said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL - some welcome levity.  I can just imagine a ferrox speaker box at the drive through...

Nevertheless,  the financial investments by various parties are increasing every month, and hence the risk of legal meltdown without some sort of dispute resolving agreement...


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## Janglur (Jul 25, 2007)

Tensik said:
			
		

> I know a lot of people have said that this is a non-profit site, but remember folks, it's not.  It's not an actual NPO with real bookkeeping and all that fun jazz.  As a matter of fact, they've said before that they wouldn't mind making a few bucks off of the community . . . "with perhaps enough left over to buy us a few beers", I believe was Dragoneer's words.  I don't think any of us would begrudge them a few beers or even a minimal salary for their work here if it was actually documented and a business that all funds were reportable, and "bells and whistles" subscriptions that would keep the site self-sustained and even perhaps turn some profit (for staff or charity use) has been suggested by dozens of people.
> 
> Obviously not the same thing as "gimmie $8k to solve my life problems", but making money off the site for personal use wasn't out of the question from either party.
> 
> ...





			
				Arcturus said:
			
		

> uncia said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



QFT


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## DigitalMan (Jul 25, 2007)

Bluefire Dragonz said:
			
		

> Its really unfair of people to just jump up and say 'I'm for such and such!' when no one knows the whole story.



I think that's what bothers me the most. Whatever's going on brought down the website. At that point, it became a public issue. So any crap about "oh, it doesn't need to be made public" is total BS. We all deserve to know what the heck is going on with our community.


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## kamunt (Jul 25, 2007)

:shock: S**T, *Dragoneer is Preyfar?!?* God damn it, I must be frigging oblivious, then, or something if almost everyone else here (involved in this thread, w/e etc.) seemed to know this except for me. Do I even want to know exactly why two admins go by two different names? :?: :!:
Oi. This is making my soul(s) cringe. *shakes his head* 

I don't feel like going back and quoting Bokracroc now, but HOLY FURIJOLE, that "black mold" crap makes me sick just _looking at it_....No wonder he wants to get the hell up out'ta there...


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

kamunt said:
			
		

> :shock: S**T, *Dragoneer is Preyfar?!?* God damn it, I must be frigging oblivious, then, or something if almost everyone else here (involved in this thread, w/e etc.) seemed to know this except for me.



Heh, heh... you're not the first to be unaware of that and won't be the last.
Works the other way round in other cases, such as when people thought Blotch was a individual rather than a collaborative effort. 

Oh, and there's a Preyfar/Dragoneer post over here to try to clarify the current situation, if anyone's passing by and not seen that yet.

Cheers,
David.


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## kamunt (Jul 25, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> Oh, and there's a Preyfar/Dragoneer post over here to try to clarify the current situation, if anyone's passing by and not seen that yet.



Buizel, Buizel, Buizel. At least Preygoneer admitted he did something really wrong...honesty seems to be in short supply these days.


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## Miriafox (Jul 25, 2007)

uncia said:
			
		

> Miriafox said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uncia, you fail at sarcasm/lulz, especially when the use of 'plz, lulz, and srsly' do a good job at making it obvious that the post wasn't meant to be serious. If you're going to make comparisons to my FA journal when trying to make a personal hit at me, try to use something that has moar 'umph' to it, instead of, you know, being a drama whore.
Just my two cents, but I didn't used to be admin with an overblown sense of ego, either. 
EDIT: Oh and since it's blushworthy, IYHO, *BLUSHBLUSHBLUSHBLUSH* har har har. moar blushing


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

Hmm good to see the forums are still back to normal ...looking at the above post


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## Sinister South Paw (Jul 25, 2007)

I'd like to know why anyone would take Pave's live journal seriously. He's a proven drama whore who just likes to be in the midst of it. He likes causing trouble and the attetion it gets him. Why not just let shit drop and let things cool down. When everyones got a cool level head then sort things out.


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## Zakavar (Jul 25, 2007)

Man I miss everything!

Glad to see FA is still alive though. <3


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## TakeWalker (Jul 25, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Franchise the furry opera...
> 
> 
> Welcome MurrDonalds...may I help you, may I help you...may I...
> ...



Arshes, you continue to make my day, week, and month, one post at a time. 



			
				uncia said:
			
		

> Heh, heh... you're not the first to be unaware of that and won't be the last.
> Works the other way round in other cases, such as when people thought Blotch was a individual rather than a collaborative effort.



Wait, Blotch isn't just a guy? c.c;;;


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2007)

TakeWalker said:
			
		

> uncia said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, 2 people iirc run that account.


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## garra (Jul 25, 2007)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> TakeWalker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Namely BlackTeagan and Kenket, they're kinda living together too. I used to wonder why Blotch's style is so close to Teagans before I knew it's but a collaboration


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## uncia (Jul 25, 2007)

[OT]


			
				garra said:
			
		

> Namely BlackTeagan and Kenket, they're kinda living together too. I used to wonder why Blotch's style is so close to Teagans before I knew it's but a collaboration


_*smiles*_ Oh, but that's quite some collaboration though, don't ya think(/know!)? _*prrrr*_


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## SDWolf (Jul 25, 2007)

Meh....

My thoughts on the matter:  http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/171081/  -.-


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