# wrestling and hardcore wrestling.



## reigoskeiter (Jul 5, 2008)

ok
i want to know if anyone likes wrestling or hardcore wrestling?
for me i dont like that orginal boring one where u just try to tackle or anything like that i like this kind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_8b75OkAWs

and i ENJOY hardcore and extreme wrestling like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uuvTWVOoew WARNING contains bloody wrestling and super extreme!

ok anyway

do u like wrestling and hardcore wrestling?


----------



## T.Y. (Jul 5, 2008)

Yush but i saw worse

ROH Man up 2007

Brisco Bros (jay and mark brisco) Vs. the Age of the fall (Tyler black and Jimmy Jacobs)

 at the end it was too violent for Pay per view

  The Age of the fall tied one of the brisco bros and hung him up side down from the rafters. (video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=L3MKZiDO0nI

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC 

It was BLOODY.


----------



## hillbilly guy (Jul 5, 2008)

me i like to watch boxing more or that UFC thing with the free style fighting.
i dont like the WWF because it just fake


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

I watch WWE, but don't care for UFC...(I used to have two TVs hooked up side by side, so I could watch WCW on one, and WWF/E on the other at the same time ^^)


----------



## reigoskeiter (Jul 5, 2008)

hillbilly guy said:


> me i like to watch boxing more or that UFC thing with the free style fighting.
> i dont like the WWF because it just fake


 
fake? its not fake its scripted and not all wrestling feds arent scripted they still get hurt  wrestling ISNT fake its SCRIPTED!


----------



## hillbilly guy (Jul 5, 2008)

ok well its scripted and yea thay get hurt i just dont like a show or the fact that thay plan who is going to win 

i just like a fight get in the ring and kick some ones ass forget the show and a script just fight


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

reigoskeiter said:


> fake? its not fake its scripted and not all wrestling feds arent scripted they still get hurt  wrestling ISNT fake its SCRIPTED!



Yes it's scripted but the injuries are sometimes fake, and sometimes real. HHH's leg injury was real, Sid Vicious's gruesome leg injury was real, Cena's bicep injury was real, Darren Drozdof's paralysis is real.


----------



## reigoskeiter (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> Yes it's scripted but the injuries are sometimes fake, and sometimes real. HHH's leg injury was real, Sid Vicious's gruesome leg injury was real, Cena's bicep injury was real, Darren Drozdof's paralysis is real.


 

the vicki injury wasnt real
i think...


----------



## reigoskeiter (Jul 5, 2008)

T.Y. said:


> Yush but i saw worse
> 
> ROH Man up 2007
> 
> ...


 

i loved that vid lol


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

reigoskeiter said:


> the vicki injury wasnt real
> i think...



No, that's staged. Nobody would really be in a wheelchair for a minor injury like that for so long.


----------



## reigoskeiter (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> No, that's staged. Nobody would really be in a wheelchair for a minor injury like that for so long.


 
yeah XD

hmm what other injurys are faked?


----------



## T.Y. (Jul 5, 2008)

RVD's concussion in 2007 when he fought orton at One night stand last year
If vickie is in a wheel chair for so long, Edge Must have gave her herpes. lol


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

reigoskeiter said:


> yeah XD
> 
> hmm what other injurys are faked?



If you remember Chyna, and her feud with the Right To Censor group, the neck "injury" she sustained was staged (they even had Jerry Lawler leave the announcers' table and come over to check in order to "sell" the injury).

Shawn Michaels back injury he sustained in the Hell In A Cell match against Undertaker was real and did force him to retire for four years. And he really was injured outside the night club in NYC, but I think the "collapse" a week or two later in the ring was staged.


----------



## Drecano (Jul 5, 2008)

I like both kinds of wrestling.  Watching the techniques and counter and the High flyers like a Rey Mysterio or Paul London is just awesome.  Plus the big men are pretty impressive....Kane, Big Show, Great Khali and of course....the Undertaker.

Hardcore Wrestling is defined by the old ECW.  Now that was proper extreme...not the watered down version of the current ECW.  The worst thing Vince did was let the ECW originals go and make ECW as tame as it is now.  Bring back Sabu, Sandman, RVD and get Tazz back in the ring...now thyats Extreme


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

Drecano said:


> I like both kinds of wrestling.  Watching the techniques and counter and the High flyers like a Rey Mysterio or Paul London is just awesome.  Plus the big men are pretty impressive....Kane, Big Show, Great Khali and of course....the Undertaker.
> 
> Hardcore Wrestling is defined by the old ECW.  Now that was proper extreme...not the watered down version of the current ECW.  The worst thing Vince did was let the ECW originals go and make ECW as tame as it is now.  Bring back Sabu, Sandman, RVD and get Tazz back in the ring...now thyats Extreme



Kane, Show and Taker I'll give you, Khali, not so much.

And well, Vince hates people he didn't create, and that pretty much goes for the ECW Originals, if they didn't get their start in the WWE, they job, or are let go.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Rey Mysterio is one of my favorite wrestlers, because of his high-flying abilities.


----------



## Drecano (Jul 5, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Kane, Show and Taker I'll give you, Khali, not so much.
> 
> And well, Vince hates people he didn't create, and that pretty much goes for the ECW Originals, if they didn't get their start in the WWE, they job, or are let go.



I like Khali, dunno why heheh

But I do agree with you on the Vince point.  80-90% of wrestlers he signs from other companies dont last long at all.  Good example is Kevin Thorn.  He came in first as Mordecai....sent to OVW to get development...came back as Kevin Thorn.....sent back AGAIN.  Why?....He was a very good power wrestler and very brutal, thats what made him what he was.

You can now see why a lot of current wrestlers turn down WWE and its a pity.  I'd pay good money to see AJ Styles and Triple H


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

But look at TNA. 75% of the wrestlers are former WWE stars.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

Drecano said:


> I like Khali, dunno why heheh
> 
> But I do agree with you on the Vince point.  80-90% of wrestlers he signs from other companies dont last long at all.  Good example is Kevin Thorn.  He came in first as Mordecai....sent to OVW to get development...came back as Kevin Thorn.....sent back AGAIN.  Why?....He was a very good power wrestler and very brutal, thats what made him what he was.
> 
> You can now see why a lot of current wrestlers turn down WWE and its a pity.  I'd pay good money to see AJ Styles and Triple H



>.>;;;  Thats another thing, if Styles did go up against Trips, Trips would win *cough*bangingStephineMcMahon*cough*

Thats another reason people I'm sure avoid WWE like the plague if they can, the backstage politics, and yeah, Thorn was a good example of what you said, and Ariel, she was a great manager, only to get in a fight with Roidtista and let go.



> But look at TNA. 75% of the wrestlers are former WWE stars.



Of course, thats the only place they can go if they want to be on television I think, its to bad Vince "doesn't know what the fuck he's doing" Russo is in charge of booking in TNA.


----------



## Drecano (Jul 5, 2008)

OMG....LOL at Trips banging Steph XD.

yeah, backstage crap happens a lot and its really petty and unfortunate.  End of the day, the guys and gals get paid well for their actions in the ring and out of it, but they do seem to act like kids backstage.

TNA though is becoming boring however.  Main events are becoming old WWE events.


----------



## T.Y. (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> If you remember Chyna, and her feud with the Right To Censor group, the neck "injury" she sustained was staged (they even had Jerry Lawler leave the announcers' table and come over to check in order to "sell" the injury).



I saw the porno too XD


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

Drecano said:


> OMG....LOL at Trips banging Steph XD.
> 
> yeah, backstage crap happens a lot and its really petty and unfortunate.  End of the day, the guys and gals get paid well for their actions in the ring and out of it, but they do seem to act like kids backstage.
> 
> TNA though is becoming boring however.  Main events are becoming old WWE events.



Thats probably because of Russo, he was a horrendous booker and one of the reason WCW died, one, not the main, but Russo had his hands in helping destroy WCW.

And yeah, its sad really about the backstage politics, cause it holds the people with talent down.



> I saw the porno too XD



Nnngh, thanks for reminding me of that, almost, if not worse then the Katie Vick angle.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Of course, thats the only place they can go if they want to be on television I think, its to bad Vince "doesn't know what the fuck he's doing" Russo is in charge of booking in TNA.



If Vince didn't know what he was doing, the WWE would have been buried long ago, either by ECW (and Paul Heyman) or WCW (and Eric Bischoff). But the thing is, Vince is a genius, if wasn't for him, wrestlers like Andre the Giant, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, and so on would never have gotten as big as they did. (I don't count Hulk Hogan because he just used his backstage influence to hold other wrestlers like Ricky Steamboat down)


----------



## Drecano (Jul 5, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Nnngh, thanks for reminding me of that, almost, if not worse then the Katie Vick angle.



>.=.<......oh that Katie angle was bad


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Drecano said:


> >.=.<......oh that Katie angle was bad



Not as bad as the Mae Young giving birth to a human hand bit *RUNS*


----------



## Drecano (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> Not as bad as the Mae Young giving birth to a human hand bit *RUNS*



Oh thank you....thank you very much...I aint gonna sleep tonight >.=.<


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> If Vince didn't know what he was doing, the WWE would have been buried long ago, either by ECW (and Paul Heyman) or WCW (and Eric Bischoff). But the thing is, Vince is a genius, if wasn't for him, wrestlers like Andre the Giant, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, and so on would never have gotten as big as they did. (I don't count Hulk Hogan because he just used his backstage influence to hold other wrestlers like Ricky Steamboat down)



Dude, I said Russo, not McMahon, McMahon, while a big asshole knows what he's doing.  Russo however, when it comes to booking, he sucks.

Ugh, and no, I think Katie Vick was worse, though its to damn bad the Sexual Chocolate is now holding the ECW title.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Dude, I said Russo, not McMahon, McMahon, while a big asshole knows what he's doing.  Russo however, when it comes to booking, he sucks.
> 
> Ugh, and no, I think Katie Vick was worse, though its to damn bad the Sexual Chocolate is now holding the ECW title.



Oh, sorry, I misread your post. Yeah, Russo is an idiot. He took an already crippled WCW and drove the final nail in the coffin, and now that he's in TNA, Jeff Jarrett had better keep him out of the way.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> Oh, sorry, I misread your post. Yeah, Russo is an idiot. He took an already crippled WCW and drove the final nail in the coffin, and now that he's in TNA, Jeff Jarrett had better keep him out of the way.



Yeah, Russo pretty much is an idiot, and I do hope that Dixie Carter does keep him out of the way, but sadly, from what I hear, its not going to happen.  Ugh, if TNA ever goes down, I bet that Vince's (McMahon that is) ego will be even more bloated then it is now.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Yeah, Russo pretty much is an idiot, and I do hope that Dixie Carter does keep him out of the way, but sadly, from what I hear, its not going to happen.  Ugh, if TNA ever goes down, I bet that Vince's (McMahon that is) ego will be even more bloated then it is now.



lol is that even possible?


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> lol is that even possible?



Heh, when it comes to Vince McMahon, yeah, I can see his ego getting bigger then possible, as scary a thought as that is.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Jul 5, 2008)

Jesus, some of you people either need to learn a few basic realities, or shut the hell up because it's getting annoying seeing you post. I really don't wanna put people on ignore.

Anyway, just because WWE is still around and WCW and ECW aren't doesn't mean Vince "knows what he's doing" when it comes to putting out good _wrestling_, it means he knows what he's doing as a _businessman_, and that I will grant him. Even as ratings plummet, he finds other venues, such as the long neglected overseas market and WWE On Demand, the latter of which I'm actually intrigued by (even if I'd rather watch wrestling that's both new _and_ good.) but whether you want to blame it on the writers and other management staff, Triple H and Stephani, Vince or the wrestlers themselves, if you think WWE under Vince MacMahon is overall as good in the past decade as it was in the previous two, I'm sorry, but you just don't know what good wrestling or sports "entertainment" is.

WCW, with Ted Turner's and/or AOL-Time Warner's money backing it could still be competing with WWE today for airtime if he/they wanted. Either one could easily start their own wrestling company from scratch if they wanted, but neither _want to_. Ted Turner just quit caring about wrestling. With AOL-Time Warner, it came down to business because they didn't feel it fit with their public image, and it probably didn't help that at the time, WWE _was_ kicking their ass pretty bad in terms of ratings and revenue, which you _can_ attribute to *a* Vince, but _which_ Vince deserves more credit/blame, well, people are probably going to be debating that forever.

ECW was a trainwreck, business-wise the moment it got a deal with the company now known as Spike. I admit, I don't really know the full story behind that one, but Spike apparently didn't believe in ECW from the start, which makes one wonder why the hell they gave them a time slot and a contract in the first place. I don't really buy the tales (more like conspiracy theories) of double and in some versions _triple_-dealing between Vince, AOL-Time Warner and Spike. Vince might be an asshole and not the most ethical of businessmen, but he's no Albert Wesker.

Bottom line, as long as a company has people backing it who believe in it, and as long as those people have money, the business is going to stay in business no matter how bad it gets its ass kicked. There's no law that says the best product has to be the most successful or that the least successful product has to go out of business. It's not a failure until the ones with the money decide it is, which is why TNA is going on how many years now?


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Jesus, some of you people either need to learn a few basic realities, or shut the hell up because it's getting annoying seeing you post. I really don't wanna put people on ignore.
> 
> Anyway, just because WWE is still around and WCW and ECW aren't doesn't mean Vince "knows what he's doing" when it comes to putting out good _wrestling_, it means he knows what he's doing as a _businessman_, and that I will grant him. Even as ratings plummet, he finds other venues, such as the long neglected overseas market and WWE On Demand, the latter of which I'm actually intrigued by (even if I'd rather watch wrestling that's both new _and_ good.) but whether you want to blame it on the writers and other management staff, Triple H and Stephani, Vince or the wrestlers themselves, if you think WWE under Vince MacMahon is overall as good in the past decade as it was in the previous two, I'm sorry, but you just don't know what good wrestling or sports "entertainment" is.
> 
> ...



I never said WWE had good storylines. I'd be the first to admit that the current storylines blow, and have since WCW went under. As for TNA, it has lasted longer than I had expected to, but that's because it's smart enough not to do what WCW did and go head-to-head with WWE. And even though it only gets a fraction of the ratings that WWE gets, it does survive, I'll give it that.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

Damn Wolf-Bone, if you put people on ignore because of that, that'd be bad IMO.

As for Vince, I will agree, he doesn't know what the hell he's doing, but you're right, he's a great businessman, which unfortunately can't be said the same for Paul Heyman who didn't have a clue what to do with money.  He was a great booker, but yeah, Heyman was bad with money and shit.

As for Bischoff, unfortunately, WCW had numerous problems, between the very horrendous booking (when Russo came in), and the thing that put the nail in the coffin, Jamie Kellnar not wanting wrestling on his network, yeah, business put those two companies out of business.

and I'm like TuVulpine, I don't recall myself ever saying that the stuff WWE is putting out is good, cause it sure as hell isn't.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Jul 5, 2008)

TyVulpine said:
			
		

> I never said WWE had good storylines.



That's the problem with making ambiguous statements like saying someone is successful because they know what they're doing. But don't worry, you'll learn how to actually _command_ the English language instead of just ape it with age, I hope (though if I believed statistics were the be all and end all I'd think the prognosis was grim.)



			
				TyVulpine said:
			
		

> As for TNA, it has lasted longer than I had expected to, but that's because it's smart enough not to do what WCW did and go head-to-head with WWE. And even though it only gets a fraction of the ratings that WWE gets, it does survive, I'll give it that.



Are you _really_ so certain of that? I'd love to see what would happen if TNA went head-to-head with WWE, I really would. It'd force WWE to drop the mentality that comes with being the only show in town as WCW did when Hogan, Hall and Nash jumped ship, and since a lot of people are still iffy about TNA it'd force them to be an indisputable superior product and not just the only alternative on regular-ass cable TV.

I wouldn't just assume that fraction of ratings, which tends to be like what, a _third_ of WWE's (which is nothing to blow your nose at when reality TV and UFC are taking a chunk out of wrestling in general) _all_ watch WWE as attentively as they do TNA. In the years before the Monday night wars, there _were_ people who watched and _attended_ WCW events pretty much exclusively, you know. I'm not trying to say it's a surefire thing that there's gonna be another Monday night war, but I _am_ saying that if there was, WWE would definitively have a direct competior once again, and once again they would have to try to win over TNA viewers as much as keep the viewers they already have.



			
				Ashkihyena said:
			
		

> Damn Wolf-Bone, if you put people on ignore because of that, that'd be bad IMO.



Yeah, it'd be "bad" in _my_ "IMO" too, but see how _you_ feel when you get warnings and infractions for *swearing*, not necessarily even _at_ anyone, just the words themselves while pure juvenile idiocy is tolerated. Although frankly I think certain people have had it in for me from day one and would rather I left, and aside from the fact that I cuss, they've got nothing on me.



			
				Ashkihyena said:
			
		

> As for Vince, I will agree, he doesn't know what the hell he's doing, but you're right, he's a great businessman, which unfortunately can't be said the same for Paul Heyman who didn't have a clue what to do with money. He was a great booker, but yeah, Heyman was bad with money and shit.



Paul Heyman: bad for business, great for dispelling Jewish stereotypes. Although if Vince wasn't such a *douchebag* he would've just left him to his own devices with ECW, and voila, good business _and_ good entertainment, and everybody would be happy.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 5, 2008)

> Yeah, it'd be "bad" in my "IMO" too, but see how you feel when you get warnings and infractions for swearing, not necessarily even at anyone, just the words themselves while pure juvenile idiocy is tolerated. Although frankly I think certain people have had it in for me from day one and would rather I left, and aside from the fact that I cuss, they've got nothing on me.



Trust me, I've gotten my fair share of shit from this site, granted, not over swearing, but mainly over the stupid rules about screenshots and stuff on the main page.



> Paul Heyman: bad for business, great for dispelling Jewish stereotypes. Although if Vince wasn't such a douchebag he would've just left him to his own devices with ECW, and voila, good business and good entertainment, and everybody would be happy.



That would've been smart of Vince, but Vince, while a great businessman isn't the smartest booker, thats for damn sure, and yes, he's a huge ass douche who (along with Steph) doesn't like the hardcore style that Heyman is known for.

Shame really since die-hard ECW fans would've liked having that back, but unfortunately, that did not come to pass.

Also, I don't think it'd be smart of TNA to go head to head with WWE at this point.  Their production isn't as great as WWE, and of course, having Russo on booking would not help given how he hand a hand in helping to destroy WCW.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 5, 2008)

Wolf-Bone said:


> That's the problem with making ambiguous statements like saying someone is successful because they know what they're doing. But don't worry, you'll learn how to actually _command_ the English language instead of just ape it with age, I hope (though if I believed statistics were the be all and end all I'd think the prognosis was grim.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, because if you'll recall, NWA/WCW didn't compete head-to-head with WWF until after Turner bought it, yet until then, it managed to survive, even with incompetent management (Disney shows ring a bell?). Maybe it because it managed to lure Hulk Hogan away (or Hogan left so he wouldn't have to face Bret Hart). And TNA really needs it's "own" wrestlers if it wants to have a chance against WWE. Remember, WCW kept using old WWE wrestlers like Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, Beefcake, etc instead of focusing on it's newer talent like Eddie, Jericho, Sting, Goldberg, Benoit, Rey, etc.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Jul 6, 2008)

TyVulpine said:
			
		

> Yes, because if you'll recall, NWA/WCW didn't compete head-to-head with WWF until after Turner bought it, yet until then, it managed to survive, even with incompetent management (Disney shows ring a bell?). Maybe it because it managed to lure Hulk Hogan away (or Hogan left so he wouldn't have to face Bret Hart). And TNA really needs it's "own" wrestlers if it wants to have a chance against WWE. Remember, WCW kept using old WWE wrestlers like Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, Beefcake, etc instead of focusing on it's newer talent like Eddie, Jericho, Sting, Goldberg, Benoit, Rey, etc.



You're blaming it on Turner when he really didn't have much to do with either its success _or_ failure. And TNA doesn't necessarily need "it's own" wrestlers, it just needs wrestlers people want to _see_ and who will "put butts in seats" as they say in the business. Look, it never mattered who "created" a wrestler, it mattered whether or not they knew what to do with them, and that's the problem WWE is having these past several years. Your examples aren't even really any good since pretty much all those WCW guys you mentioned, while they were in WCW were involved in matches and angles _with_ those already famous ex-WWF wrestlers, which contributed to their popularity and made everyone cream their pants when said big-name WCW originals went to WWE, and for the most part WWE never capitalized on it because as it was previously established in this thread (and common knowledge to anyone who knows much about wrestling) *Vince's ego won't allow him to let someone he didn't "create" surpass the ones he did*. I mean shit, WCW had a proper cruiserweight division, and it was _good_. WWE can't even manage _that_.

There's examples on both sides of wrestlers being misused and not allowed to live up to their potential. I mean Bret Hart is still butthurt (*hm, Bret Hart, Butt Hurt, BH...*) over the MSJ incident (not to be confused with the MSG incident - that was the only reason Triple H didn't become the oligarch he is sooner) when what he oughtta be more pissed about is his WCW career! At least Michaels, Vince and Hebner didn't make it impossible for him to ever wrestle again by putting him in the ring with Goldberg. You'd think he'd at least forgive WWE since they effectively ended Goldberg's career by squashing him as bad as they did (hhhmmm, though they _do_ seem to be on better terms these days, Vince and Bret. Coincidence, I wonder?)

Hogan was a damn good heel, just because it seemed so _wrong_ for him of all people, the one guy you always thought you could count on to stay a "good guy," and it was *huge* when he turned. WCW recognized that, and WWF didn't. Now that character probably wouldn't have been as effective if WWE hadn't built him up to be the eternal good guy, but really, a heel turn for Hogan was way overdue, and they could've done _something_ with him. Imagine how ironic it would've been if Hogan had joined sides with someone else he was supposed to be feuding with earlier in his career like say, the Undertaker, Slaughter or Yokozuna, especially the latter two since his whole thing was being the "American Hero" and Slaughter and Yoko were of course the typical foreigner monster heels. That would've been groundbreaking.

Hall and Nash were vital to the nWo angle working, don't get me wrong, but they were always basically tweeners since ya kinda wanted to like them even when they were supposed to be heels. But at least WCW recognized that and let them _be_ tweeners whereas WWE always wanted them to be either faces or heels. I sorta also wanna give WCW credit for making them a team, but I don't know if that was them intentionally doing what they knew would work that WWE didn't or if it was just a lucky fluke.

I gotta say Rey overall has done better for himself in WWE than he did in WCW, even though in WCW he got to shine as a lucha libre wrestler. Even though I enjoyed his lucha style matches better, he is at least a bigger star in WWE, though I think he'd be an even bigger star if Vince could get over his bias towards bigger guys and have actual cruiserweight matches instead of the David vs. Goliath shit they usually try to have.

Jericho I would also say has done better in WWE, whether as a heel or as a face. I remember him basically being either a whiny brat heel or a super-clean/underdog face in WCW, but in WWE, he just _rules_ no matter what the case. WCW never really did anything with the "lion heart" thing and if he wasn't as good a wrestler as he is, no one would've given a shit about him, but with the Y2J character/entrance, it was like WWE realizing that, like Steve Austin and The Rock, they can have him either be a face or a heel and change pretty much nothing about his character and what he does in the ring, and it'll work either way.



			
				Ashkihyena said:
			
		

> Also, I don't think it'd be smart of TNA to go head to head with WWE at this point. Their production isn't as great as WWE, and of course, having Russo on booking would not help given how he hand a hand in helping to destroy WCW.



You're probably right, but it's also not very bright of Ty to think TNA's lack of ratings compared to WWE is a good indication of the quality of wrestling/entertainment of that promotion. I didn't mean literally, they should go head to head right now, and even if I did it doesn't matter since TNA/Spike aren't gonna let that happen until they honestly believe they got everything they need to take them on. But I do believe that's probably their long term goal.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 6, 2008)

> Jericho I would also say has done better in WWE, whether as a heel or as a face. I remember him basically being either a whiny brat heel or a super-clean/underdog face in WCW, but in WWE, he just rules no matter what the case. WCW never really did anything with the "lion heart" thing and if he wasn't as good a wrestler as he is, no one would've given a shit about him, but with the Y2J character/entrance was like WWE realizing that, like Steve Austin and The Rock, they can have him either be a face or a heel and change pretty much nothing about his character and what he does in the ring, and it'll work either way.



Unfortunately I don't see WWE properly using Jericho since Trips hates him, and we all know what happens if you're not liked by Trips.  Shame really since Jericho is a great worker, and his come back was big and to this day, he's a great draw I think.



> You're probably right, but it's also not very bright of Ty to think TNA's lack of ratings compared to WWE is a good indication of the quality of wrestling/entertainment of that promotion. I didn't mean literally, they should go head to head right now, and even if I did it doesn't matter since TNA/Spike aren't gonna let that happen until they honestly believe they got everything they need to take them on. But I do believe that's probably their long term goal.



Yeah, I see TNA eventually going head to head with WWE, but I don't think it'll be anytime in the future.  Shame really cause WWE really does need some serious competition.


----------



## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jul 6, 2008)

Wrestling is too gay even for me.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 6, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> Wrestling is too gay even for me.



I must admit, thats part of the reason I'm into it.  *Snerks*  As long as the guys don't look like Big Daddy V or Mark Henry.


----------



## Wolf-Bone (Jul 6, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> I must admit, thats part of the reason I'm into it.  *Snerks*  As long as the guys don't look like Big Daddy V or Mark Henry.



I don't know what the hell their rational is for having Big Daddy V wear the ring attire they have him sporting lately. I mean there's man boobs, which are gross enough, and then there's having what looks like two symmetrical tumors protruding from your arm pits flopping around.

BTW, does anyone remember the time Umaga tried to leap over the announce table at someone (I think it was Cena) and he just sorta "floated" over the table, for lack of a better word? It's hard to describe. It was kinda like a how a snake moves, except in a shorter, much, _much_ fatter form, and it was pure LOL.


----------



## Drecano (Jul 6, 2008)

OMG Big Daddy V really needs to put on decent ring attire to cover that up, in the word of Ron Simmons.......DAMN!.

And if TNA got more publicity and got bolder with its set-up ( Pyro, entrance ect. ) Then WWE would have major competition.  It may be me, but I feel that the TNA set-up is really naff and cheap looking.  And the 6 sided ring...W...T...F is that?  Its crap.  If anyone from TNA is a member of FA and reading this ( damn that would be a turn up wouldn't it? LOL ) get rid of that crap ring and get a traditional one.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 6, 2008)

Drecano said:


> OMG Big Daddy V really needs to put on decent ring attire to cover that up, in the word of Ron Simmons.......DAMN!.
> 
> And if TNA got more publicity and got bolder with its set-up ( Pyro, entrance ect. ) Then WWE would have major competition.  It may be me, but I feel that the TNA set-up is really naff and cheap looking.  And the 6 sided ring...W...T...F is that?  Its crap.  If anyone from TNA is a member of FA and reading this ( damn that would be a turn up wouldn't it? LOL ) get rid of that crap ring and get a traditional one.



I agree with all that. A six-sided ring? Really, what is the point? What makes it better than the standard four sided ring that every wrestler trains in? And the "X Division"? WTF is up with that (especially the title matches)?


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 6, 2008)

Drecano said:


> OMG Big Daddy V really needs to put on decent ring attire to cover that up, in the word of Ron Simmons.......DAMN!.
> 
> And if TNA got more publicity and got bolder with its set-up ( Pyro, entrance ect. ) Then WWE would have major competition.  It may be me, but I feel that the TNA set-up is really naff and cheap looking.  And the 6 sided ring...W...T...F is that?  Its crap.  If anyone from TNA is a member of FA and reading this ( damn that would be a turn up wouldn't it? LOL ) get rid of that crap ring and get a traditional one.



Actually, the ring is pretty cool, definitly sets them apart from WWE, and their X-Division is pretty good, or was at one time.  I think they let the smaller workers do their thing there, something that WWE doesn't do since Vince favors the big guys who can't do squat, though some of the big guys are decent.



> I don't know what the hell their rational is for having Big Daddy V wear the ring attire they have him sporting lately. I mean there's man boobs, which are gross enough, and then there's having what looks like two symmetrical tumors protruding from your arm pits flopping around.



No telling.  At least when he was doing the World's Largest Love Machine gimmick, he had the world's largest pair of PJ's on, now, not so much, and its quite bad watching him move and jiggle.


----------



## Drecano (Jul 6, 2008)

Couldnt tell ya what was up with that ring.  It was interesting at first, but then I thought.....why?, they do the same thing in this ring as a normal one.  

As for the X division, well, I think its just another WWE Cruiserweight division.  Great to start with but then theres less competition.  OK theres no weight limit, but its doomed to fade out just like the Cruiserweight Title IMO


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 6, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Actually, the ring is pretty cool, definitly sets them apart from WWE, and their X-Division is pretty good, or was at one time.  I think they let the smaller workers do their thing there, something that WWE doesn't do since Vince favors the big guys who can't do squat, though some of the big guys are decent.



Batista (or BOREista as a friend of mine calls him) can't, Cena is the next-gen Hulk Hogan, Khali and Kane can't do much either, Big Show (Big Slow I call him) is a joke.
That leaves Undertaker, HHH, Orton, Edge for the big men. Undertaker is out 11 months of the year it seems, and when he does wrestle, he always gets screwed out of the title one way or another. Orton and Edge seem to suck Vince's cock and can hold on to the belts for far too long. HHH does the boss's daughter.


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 6, 2008)

Drecano said:


> Couldnt tell ya what was up with that ring.  It was interesting at first, but then I thought.....why?, they do the same thing in this ring as a normal one.
> 
> As for the X division, well, I think its just another WWE Cruiserweight division.  Great to start with but then theres less competition.  OK theres no weight limit, but its doomed to fade out just like the Cruiserweight Title IMO



The X-Division should definitly be left to the smaller guys I think, but thats probably more of Russo's bad booking, but of course, I could be wrong, I just hate Vince Russo alot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RRikPlDhfo - And just for the lulz, I have to post this.  "He's a maaan, such a man, he's a real, a real man's man."  Poor Regal.



> That leaves Undertaker, HHH, Orton, Edge for the big men. Undertaker is out 11 months of the year it seems, and when he does wrestle, he always gets screwed out of the title one way or another. Orton and Edge seem to suck Vince's cock and can hold on to the belts for far too long. HHH does the boss's daughter.



Sorry dude, Edge and Orton aren't considered big, and nor do they suck up to Vince, that honor goes to Cena who held the title for a year when he shouldn't have, though I will agree with Trips, who probably is due for several more title reigns so he can catch up to Flair's 16 times.

Now if you'll excuse me.  *Mixes some concrete.*


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 6, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Unfortunately I don't see WWE properly using Jericho since Trips hates him, and we all know what happens if you're not liked by Trips.  Shame really since Jericho is a great worker, and his come back was big and to this day, he's a great draw I think.




I agree with that since Y2J came back to the WWE, and promptly lost his title match to freaking ORTON. Of course, HBK and Cena also lost to Orton...


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 6, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> I agree with that since Y2J came back to the WWE, and promptly lost his title match to freaking ORTON. Of course, HBK and Cena also lost to Orton...



Well, Orton is another top worker IMO.  Honestly, I'd prefer him holding the title then Cena.  Ugh, Cena, I don't get how he held the title, well, mainly because Cena could get the merchandise in, which is really kinda annoying since I think talent should determine who holds the belt.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 6, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Well, Orton is another top worker IMO.  Honestly, I'd prefer him holding the title then Cena.  Ugh, Cena, I don't get how he held the title, well, mainly because Cena could get the merchandise in, which is really kinda annoying since I think talent should determine who holds the belt.



I like the talented wrestlers getting the belt, but I don't like them pulling a "Hogan" and keeping the belt for so long like Orton did.


----------



## T.Y. (Jul 6, 2008)

I dont want Cena being another Hogan, infact, hes medorice at best. he just doesn't deserve a World title Imo.

Plus i think Stone cold was more popular then hogan.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 6, 2008)

T.Y. said:


> I dont want Cena being another Hogan, infact, hes medorice at best. he just doesn't deserve a World title Imo.
> 
> Plus i think Stone cold was more popular then hogan.



I just found out that Cena may be getting the WWE Title back before September, and that Batista may be turning heel.

Wait, the WWE Title is on SD, and Cena's on Raw...hmmm...

(A friend in Cleveland where September's Unforgiven PPV will take place says the arena has a WWE poster with Cena with the title standing next to HBK on the left side of the poster, and JBL, Y2J, and Batista on the right, with the caption "The War To End It All" underneath")


----------



## Ashkihyena (Jul 6, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> I just found out that Cena may be getting the WWE Title back before September, and that Batista may be turning heel.
> 
> Wait, the WWE Title is on SD, and Cena's on Raw...hmmm...
> 
> (A friend in Cleveland where September's Unforgiven PPV will take place says the arena has a WWE poster with Cena with the title standing next to HBK on the left side of the poster, and JBL, Y2J, and Batista on the right, with the caption "The War To End It All" underneath")



I sure as hell hope not, I quit watching Raw when Trips was champ, and I'll quit watching again if Cena regains.  You say that Orton had a long title reign, that was nothing, Cena had a full year of holding the belt himself, especially when he didn't deserve it.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Jul 6, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> I sure as hell hope not, I quit watching Raw when Trips was champ, and I'll quit watching again if Cena regains.  You say that Orton had a long title reign, that was nothing, Cena had a full year of holding the belt himself, especially when he didn't deserve it.



Well, the WWE Title (which Cena was holding in the poster) is now on SD, so logically, shouldn't Cena be holding the World Title (currently held by CM Punk)?


----------

