# Artists, have you ever been scammed by a client?



## Vinfang (May 19, 2020)

Here is the story... I just got scammed.

Client paid $60 out of $480 and is deleting herself on FA after she got busted ( I showed her the copied response from the 3rd party helpdesk )

I would probably remember this forever, because this is the first time it has happened to me.

This is awful :[

To be honest, I almost dodged this mess.
she 1st posted on FA under another name.
I declined.

Then a month later, she petended to be a studio. I lost my regular income due to the pandemic, and was desperate, so I accepted the job.

This is despicable and insulting. She wasted me weeks, when I should be working on my regular clients. (He agrees that I prioritize this over his project. )


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## Kiaara (May 19, 2020)

I ALMOST did! I refused to give them the final product (3 ref sheets, honestly I should have seen this coming but that was my last and second ever commission and I was just happy someone liked my art!)
There were a few red flags
1. Kept asking me over and over again about the cost (like it was gonna change???)
2. Kept wanting me to send the full completed drawing before payment, but got a bit short when I put my watermark over it multiple times to ensure no art theft
3. Got VERY mad when I wouldn't give them all three before payment then went to the discord server I MOD for, I am good friend with the owner and many of our frequent members, and started saying I was a bad artist and calling me toxic and other bullshit. She got banned pretty quickly because from what I heard this wasn't her first time. I don't have the power to ban as a mod, only mute for a certain amount of time, so that order came straight from the owner.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

I'm sorry this happened to you~.

I'm glad you got paid /something/ first. I hope that they didn't snatch your art before then. Thats horrible. vAv

I haven't been scammed before, but thats because I use a business PayPal. Theres a level of protection. I had someone during my day job try to scam me out of money, but Paypal actually came in on my behalf since I had all the work documented.

Also because I've had stellar work over the nearly 7 years I've had the account. Paypal has made a lot of money off of my transactions, but it's so worth it.


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## Toasty9399 (May 19, 2020)

I could've scammed somebody. They sent me the final image before I paid the final half payment. Keep in mind it was a 120$ commission, so I could've gotten away with only paying 60. I paid of course, I'm not an asshole.


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## Vinfang (May 19, 2020)

Toasty9399 said:


> I could've scammed somebody. They sent me the final image before I paid the final half payment. Keep in mind it was a 120$ commission, so I could've gotten away with only paying 60. I paid of course, I'm not an asshole.



I offer her payment plan of $60 before and after each complete set, because the total cost is great. Her money bounced multiple times, and she claimed that the money went through, until I got evidence otherwise.  then she ghosted.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> I offer her payment plan of $60 before and after each complete set, because the total cost is great. Her money bounced multiple times, and she claimed that the money went through, until I got evidence otherwise.  then she ghosted.


Her money bounced on PayPal?


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## BunBunArt (May 19, 2020)

I'm always afraid of PayPal although it's what I use... I've been thinking several times to get a business account x.x
I was scammed many times before I became a freelance artist because I didn't ask for upfront payment, so I usually finished a sketch or ink and they would go away with it not paying.
That's basically why now I don't even lift up the pen until the invoices are paid...


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## Vinfang (May 19, 2020)

PercyD said:


> Her money bounced on PayPal?


 no, she claimed to not have PayPal, and want to use some other Cash app (won't work, because I have no US bank account), I eventually agreed to work for bandcamp giftcards as a work around, because I want to support some of my favorite musicians during this awful time.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> I'm always afraid of PayPal although it's what I use... I've been thinking several times to get a business account x.x
> I was scammed many times before I became a freelance artist because I didn't ask for upfront payment, so I usually finished a sketch or ink and they would go away with it not paying.
> That's basically why now I don't even lift up the pen until the invoices are paid...


I would deeeefintely get a PayPal business account. I've been using them for some years now and they've gotten a lot better about how they treat their businesses. 

I just would not store my money there.


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## BunBunArt (May 19, 2020)

PercyD said:


> I would deeeefintely get a PayPal business account. I've been using them for some years now and they've gotten a lot better about how they treat their businesses.
> 
> I just would not store my money there.



Do you pay much fee for that? Normal invoice already takes like 4% fee of the total... >.<


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> no, she claimed to not have PayPal, and want to use some other Cash app (won't work, because I have no US bank account), I eventually agreed to work for bandcamp giftcards as a work around, because I want to support some of my favorite musicians during this awful time.


Oh thats skeettchy~. Good on you, supporting other artists though.

I use Google Pay instead sometimes.


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## Vinfang (May 19, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> I'm always afraid of PayPal although it's what I use... I've been thinking several times to get a business account x.x
> I was scammed many times before I became a freelance artist because I didn't ask for upfront payment, so I usually finished a sketch or ink and they would go away with it not paying.
> That's basically why now I don't even lift up the pen until the invoices are paid...



Haha, easier said then done. My tattoo clients always promised to show up and get an apprentice tattoo from me, but took off with a shot of my finished sketch / template to elsewhere.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> Do you pay much fee for that? Normal invoice already takes like 4% fee of the total... >.<


I write my fees off as a Cost of (Goods) sold, since I do taxes for all of my work together.  vAv It's just part of doing business.

The fee provides security, though. If someone tries to ask for a refund after delivery, Paypal can block them from stealing your money. This literally saved me in the past because I was working with a really flakey lady who was adamant about stealing from my (day) job. 

 It's actually 2.9% for business accounts for invoices.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> Haha, easier said then done. My tattoo clients always promised to show up and get an apprentice tattoo from me, but took off with a shot of my finished sketch / template to elsewhere.


Thats horrid~. You don't charge for sketches? I certainly would. A good $75 USD for consultation/sketch. Even $30 USD...


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## BunBunArt (May 19, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> Haha, easier said then done. My tattoo clients always promised to show up and get an apprentice tattoo from me, but took off with a shot of my finished sketch / template to elsewhere.



A friend of mine is a tattoo...tattooer? And artist, he charges upfront like 30% for the art so if the client doesn't show up, at least he didn't loose everything. It still sucks when they don't appear because that hour/s are kind of lost -.- ugh


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## BunBunArt (May 19, 2020)

PercyD said:


> I write my fees off as a Cost of (Goods) sold, since I do taxes for all of my work together.  vAv It's just part of doing business.
> 
> The fee provides security, though. If someone tries to ask for a refund after delivery, Paypal can block them from stealing your money. This literally saved me in the past because I was working with a really flakey lady who was adamant about stealing from my (day) job.
> 
> It's actually 2.9% for business accounts for invoices.



Aaaah I always thought users could just ask for the money back and get out with it. I just took a commission from a new site, they paid quite a lot and I was super surprised... they didn't care to look at my portfolio, didn't want more examples of my work, didn't care to read my terms... they just paid the invoice super fast and asked for the art.
I was worried I would do the art and they would ask for the money back  It didn't happen though... but I think a business account might help me feel more secure! I will look into it! Thanks <3


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## Vinfang (May 19, 2020)

PercyD said:


> Thats horrid~. You don't charge for sketches? I certainly would. A good $75 USD for consultation/sketch. Even $30 USD...



Part of apprentice duty, If a client walked in, and asked for something, you look up references and draw them a sketch. they can chicken out anytime. I can't tattoo any walkin anyways, because they are the shop's clients.

As an apprentice who doesn't have many real-life friends or want to do self experimentation, I rely on word of mouth and internet, I have to show a fairly polished something before anyone agrees to even come to shop.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> Part of apprentice duty, If a client walked in, and asked for something, you look up references and draw them a sketch. they can chicken out anytime. I can't tattoo any walkin anyways, because they are the shop's clients.
> 
> As an apprentice who doesn't have many real-life friends or want to do self experimentation, I rely on word of mouth and internet, I have to show a fairly polished something before anyone agrees to even come to shop.


Right but you should at least charge for the sketch. Obvs, yea, they aren't gonna let you tat but they should at least pay for your time/thr design.


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## PercyD (May 19, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> Aaaah I always thought users could just ask for the money back and get out with it. I just took a commission from a new site, they paid quite a lot and I was super surprised... they didn't care to look at my portfolio, didn't want more examples of my work, didn't care to read my terms... they just paid the invoice super fast and asked for the art.
> I was worried I would do the art and they would ask for the money back  It didn't happen though... but I think a business account might help me feel more secure! I will look into it! Thanks <3


They can for regular accounts.
Theres buyer/seller protection if you have a business account, though. 

The only thing is that you have to be careful drawing NSFW art. Paypal doesn't cover "pornography" that includes drawn works.


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## Garshasp (May 21, 2020)

I have been ghosted on payments because (I am assuming) that they did not like the progress reports! I usually get employed to do monsters and horror illustrations, and I take forever so I make the mistake of not accepting payments until we are in agreement on the final design before I start inking.  I stopped altogether because I just don't know how to manage it without getting super aggravated.  I wish people who put the commission in knew what exactly it is they want and to grow a pair to let me know what needs to change! I am so easy to work with its ridiculous.


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## faepaintings (May 21, 2020)

I haven't been scammed yet. Only... let's call it borderline scammed. I once had a client that refused to give me all details about their character and the accessoiries beforehand and as I sketched and proceeded, they came up with more and more ideas to add everytime I showed them the progress. I then broke up the commission and refrained from it. I don't lift the pen anymore before I don't have _*all*_ details and references.


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## Garshasp (May 21, 2020)

faepaintings said:


> I haven't been scammed yet. Only... let's call it borderline scammed. I once had a client that refused to give me all details about their character and the accessoiries beforehand and as I sketched and proceeded, they came up with more and more ideas to add everytime I showed them the progress. I then broke up the commission and refrained from it. I don't lift the pen anymore before I don't have _*all*_ details and references.



I feel you on that! I always find that I am asking myself ("Did you not look at my galleries? Did you not read all my capabilities?") -- yet still they tend to flake out.  I haven't done commissions for a while because of rotty clients dropping out while I have already embarked on their requests...And I feel that a lit of the time it is because they bit off more than they could chew.


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## F.lee_art (May 21, 2020)

faepaintings said:


> I haven't been scammed yet. Only... let's call it borderline scammed. I once had a client that refused to give me all details about their character and the accessoiries beforehand and as I sketched and proceeded, they came up with more and more ideas to add everytime I showed them the progress. I then broke up the commission and refrained from it. I don't lift the pen anymore before I don't have _*all*_ details and references.



I had someone do some thing similar a while back too! I still offer a preliminary sketch before I send invoices but I wonder if that's something that's even worth my time? Like I just want all the details before-hand so when I ink there's no major changes after but I'd hate to have it happen again


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## PercyD (May 21, 2020)

Garshasp said:


> I feel you on that! I always find that I am asking myself ("Did you not look at my galleries? Did you not read all my capabilities?") -- yet still they tend to flake out.  I haven't done commissions for a while because of rotty clients dropping out while I have already embarked on their requests...And I feel that a lit of the time it is because they bit off more than they could chew.


I usually have them fill out a form with everything/fill out the form for them.

Then I have them review the form and agree to it _before_ they pay. I even host it on my trello where they have their own card--
Trello​I'll make a card for them before they pay. I'll even include references. But I don't even start a sketch until its paid.


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## F.lee_art (May 21, 2020)

PercyD said:


> I usually have them fill out a form with everything/fill out the form for them.
> 
> Then I have them review the form and agree to it _before_ they pay. I even host it on my trello where they have their own card--
> Trello​I'll make a card for them before they pay. I'll even include references. But I don't even start a sketch until its paid.


Oh wow that's really neat and useful! :O


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## Vinfang (May 21, 2020)

Cococatastrophe said:


> I had someone do some thing similar a while back too! I still offer a preliminary sketch before I send invoices but I wonder if that's something that's even worth my time? Like I just want all the details before-hand so when I ink there's no major changes after but I'd hate to have it happen again



I have similar experience, client wants to get some not-yet-drawn concept art for his OCs, we chat a bit (about art style/ his vision/ prices, etc), i then sent a sketch, and asked for money. his reply is something like "oh well, I want to take some more time and look at other artist 's stuff too. it's still too soon to make my pick." 

not too mad, but he wasted my time for sure.


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## F.lee_art (May 21, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> I have similar experience, client wants to get some not-yet-drawn concept art for his OCs, we chat a bit (about art style/ his vision/ prices, etc), i then sent a sketch, and asked for money. his reply is something like "oh well, I want to take some more time and look at other artist 's stuff too. it's still too soon to make my pick."
> 
> not too mad, but he wasted my time for sure.


Oof yeah, that'd make me mad for the sole reason that a person doesn't need a sketch to get a feel for art style, that's why we have examples and stuff.


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## PercyD (May 21, 2020)

Cococatastrophe said:


> Oh wow that's really neat and useful! :O


>u</

Feel free to lift my form and my Terms of Service here-
Trello​I put a link to my ToS on all of my invoices. Mostly to cover myself in case something goes down.

While my first preference to get paid is actually Google Pay, I only have that on my ToS so that Paypal can't come after me for NSFW stuff.


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## PercyD (May 21, 2020)

Vinfang said:


> I have similar experience, client wants to get some not-yet-drawn concept art for his OCs, we chat a bit (about art style/ his vision/ prices, etc), i then sent a sketch, and asked for money. his reply is something like "oh well, I want to take some more time and look at other artist 's stuff too. it's still too soon to make my pick."
> 
> not too mad, but he wasted my time for sure.


Oh yea~. No, I don't do any sketches until my client has (1) a trello card and, (2) has given me a payment.


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## Garshasp (May 22, 2020)

PercyD said:


> I usually have them fill out a form with everything/fill out the form for them.
> 
> Then I have them review the form and agree to it _before_ they pay. I even host it on my trello where they have their own card--
> Trello​I'll make a card for them before they pay. I'll even include references. But I don't even start a sketch until its paid.




WOW, that is really useful and I've never considered that before.  What a well-organized idea!  Thanks for sharing!


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## redhusky (May 22, 2020)

No, but I've come close.


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## Nerire (May 25, 2020)

Not really... *Really,* scammed, but this one time I was working with a client that had quite a complicated fursona and wanted a whole bunch of extra stuff added to their reference sheet. It'd have all costed more, ofc, and it was one of my first potentially bigger commissions, so I worked really hard on the sketch, as I always make sure that the client is first satisfied with the sketch before payment, then I finish the thing.

Basically, it was a lot of back and forth with small stuff being readjusted at first, then they had me redesign their fursona completely- think; a dinosaur into a chimera centaur eagle- and after I thought I made a real good job and sent them the (what I though would be) a final sketch, they completely ghosted me.;c
I could see that they were still active here on the forums and messaged them more than a dozen of times but they never replied;cc.

I must admit that it made me quite upset. I think they just took my sketch and used that as a future reference for them, since I feel like I haven't thought to watermark it properly back then, not anticipating someone to do something like this:c


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## Vinfang (May 25, 2020)

Nerire said:


> Not really... *Really,* scammed, but this one time I was working with a client that had quite a complicated fursona and wanted a whole bunch of extra stuff added to their reference sheet. It'd have all costed more, ofc, and it was one of my first potentially bigger commissions, so I worked really hard on the sketch, as I always make sure that the client is first satisfied with the sketch before payment, then I finish the thing.
> 
> Basically, it was a lot of back and forth with small stuff being readjusted at first, then they had me redesign their fursona completely- think; a dinosaur into a chimera centaur eagle- and after I thought I made a real good job and sent them the (what I though would be) a final sketch, they completely ghosted me.;c
> I could see that they were still active here on the forums and messaged them more than a dozen of times but they never replied;cc.
> ...



How is this any different? I only consider something a gift, if I willingly draw up art for free. Otherwise, I offer a service to most. If the client agrees to pay up and didn't, I call that a scam. If whoever is using your art without permission, they are definitely stealing from you.


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## Van the cheesen one (May 25, 2020)

"Luckily" I've only ever been ghosted in ArtTrades. Still disappointing though, if you put a lot of effort into your art and don't even get an excuse in return.


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## DariusTheLoony (May 25, 2020)

I definitely have been scammed by a client before as she or he ended up trying to use PayPal to take away my money even after I did the work that was asked of me and was willing to even edit.  I even did a 10 K job .


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## Punkedsolar (May 26, 2020)

I have, so I have staged systems for payment - a sketch is one stage, pay for the next.  These days all my clients are commercial, so they're less likely to stiff you because they have legal departments who will smack them if they do.


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## Stray Cat Terry (May 26, 2020)

That's horrible... Wish it won't happen again.

This is the reason, and since I don't ever trust anyone when they're on a contract or money stuffs with me, I always get paid first and start working then. (Unless there's other component) This is why I'm not active in trades and commission categories. (Cuz you draw first)

The only exception is my closer friends, I finish the job first and then ask for the payment. And maybe some free arts for service? :3

When even my friends shall scam me with this, I end the relationships. I'm losing the money, but they are losing the future opportunity to get my arts. Just let them go find another cheap artist like me somewhere in the world, heh.


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## redhusky (May 26, 2020)

DariusTheLoony said:


> I definitely have been scammed by a client before as she or he ended up trying to use PayPal to take away my money even after I did the work that was asked of me and was willing to even edit.  I even did a 10 K job .


Did they get away with it?


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## DariusTheLoony (May 27, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Did they get away with it?


Yep


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## redhusky (May 27, 2020)

DariusTheLoony said:


> Yep


Aw. :<


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