# Furry/religion incompatible? Help me out here.



## Nightweaver (Oct 25, 2008)

OK, let me start this thread off with a note: *I fully support whatever religious beliefs you hold. This thread is not designed to intimidate, make fun of, or belittle any religion. This is merely to find out information for my own edification. Thank you.

*With that said, I would like to know a few things about anybody who is devoutly religious in the fandom:

1. Isn't being a furry incompatible with some religions? Doesn't Christianity prohibit its members from being part of something which uplifts animals to the level of human beings? Isn't that blasphemy? This isn't intended to be offensive, I genuinely don't know. :/

2. If your religion does support furry either explicitly or implicitly, does it support the sexual aspect? I mean, are there really religions out there tolerant enough to sustain furry porn and the like? I would think that the more conservative, human-centered sects would sharply denounce this fandom, seeing it as "evil" and "blasphemous" to dare uplift "mere animals" to human intelligence.

3. If your religion doesn't support the ideas and concepts in the fandom, how can you keep the two separate? Do you see an inherent conflict between what you worship and what you do in your free time?

Discuss please.


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## RainsongGryphon (Oct 25, 2008)

1.  Not necessarily.  There are some Christianities that prohibit it, but then there's about 2 billion flavours of Jesus. If one doesn't work but you still wanna believe, pick another. ^_~  Heck, I've actually seen Christians that believe Yahweh's a goddess and do rituals that are for all intents and purposes, pagan.

2.  Mine tolerates/encourages it... but that's because the only beliefs I follow 100%... are my own.  

3.  You don't.  Trust me, you don't.  This is just asking for dischord, and unless you're SO don't-give-a-rats that you can just ignore the contradictions, one or the other gotta change.  Not necessarily go away completely, just change. ^_~


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## StormSong (Oct 25, 2008)

First of all, I love your signature, Nightweaver, read the text on mine and you'll see that i'm also a MASSIVE Nightwish fan!

I think some religions furry would be incompatible with, but as a relatively devout pagan my beliefs tend to support and nurture rather then condemn and forbid. I've noticed that most mainstream religions tend to try to force you to conform, and furry is really not what they would approve of. However, christians, jews, muslims etc. are more then welcome to hold their beleifs and be a furry, even if the two may seem to us to be contradictory.


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## Korro-Sama (Oct 25, 2008)

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! There aren't "Flavors of Jesus" you pig. I'm a Christian. Christianity says that Jesus is the SON OF GOD who died so that we wouldn't have to suffer eternal separation from His Holy Presence. Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT CHRISTIAN, Jews are NOT CHRISTIAN, and any religion that doesn't accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and accept his Redemption is NOT CHRISTIAN. I think it most appropriate in the future if people would only talk about what they understand when it comes to Religions. I get rather irritable when deliberate ignorance is slapped on the table.

.... With that fallacy set aside, there is not moral conflict between being a Furry and being a Christian. To my knowledge, Furry is not defined as holding animals of equal status to humans. The difference between the two in the Christian understanding is that humans have immortal Souls, and animals do not. To be honest... some denominations of Christianity don't believe that there is such a difference, but the most closely shepherded ones do. I believe that being a Furry is a lifestyle choice that is beneficial to some, and not to others. You must evaluate whether that lifestyle is going to be beneficial to you or not. I am a devout Catholic with a bit of Irish kick-ass blood, and being a furry is turning out great for me. The mindset it puts me in makes me much happier than I was before, and simplifies everyday decisions for me. You should look into this yourself to see if this is indeed going to build you up. It is a way of life, so you gotta choose.


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## RainsongGryphon (Oct 25, 2008)

> OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! There aren't "Flavors of Jesus" you pig. I'm a Christian. Christianity says that Jesus is the SON OF GOD who died so that we wouldn't have to suffer eternal separation from His Holy Presence. Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT CHRISTIAN, Jews are NOT CHRISTIAN, and any religion that doesn't accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and accept his Redemption is NOT CHRISTIAN.



Jeez, someone got up on the wrong side of the pew today.  But that wasn't what I meant.  We're talking the 'god hates fags' flavor, the 'weed will lead you to salvation' flavor, the 'just be good, don't sweat the details' flavor, the 'you must do all this word-for-word' flavor and so on.  All believe in this Jesus = salvation thing, just not everything else. ^_~


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## Korro-Sama (Oct 25, 2008)

Sorry I snapped at you. It was the whole "Yahweh is a goddess" thing is what set me off... pardon my over-heated Irish blood. I am part wolf after all. I'm just sorta irritable after how people call "Christianity" the idiotic majority, and all the idiots posing as modern-day saviors leave no credibility to people like me who are honestly trying their best to live happy, peaceful, spirit-filled lives. The sad fact (for me) is that most people who call themselves Christians don't practice what they claim to believe, or else are constantly adapting what they believe to whatever gives them the most power. 

Either way... please hold Christianity in higher regards for the sake of the Christians who actually care. I am ill humored to people poking fun at God.


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## Quiet269 (Oct 25, 2008)

Religion is kinda pick and choose...

I mean doesn't it say you cannot eat Red Meat on a Friday, Pork on any day, or even Work on a Sunday?

I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Korro-Sama (Oct 25, 2008)

Wot the hell religion are you talking about? I think you threw a bit of Judaism into your Catholicism and some other religion you made up. Catholicism is NOT pick and choose. There is accountability there, and you cannot honestly stray from Catholic teachings and still be a Catholic. That's more fallacy. It is true that I don't eat meat on Fridays, but work on Sunday is not forbidden, and I have NO clue where you got that pork thing. Wow... I'm starting to enjoy myself here... so many people generalizing their asses off... ^-^ BRING ON THE FIGHTERS! MORTAL KOMBAT HAS BEGUN!


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## Quiet269 (Oct 25, 2008)

Who says I was talking about your religion specifically?


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## Korro-Sama (Oct 25, 2008)

You weren't. You were talking about Religion in general... hence, "Generalizing their asses off." The fact of the matter is that MOST religions have some form of canon and are NOT buffet style.

Next fighter.


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## Quiet269 (Oct 25, 2008)

Most does not equal all, and truthfully your opinion could be completely wrong.

This post was about all. 

That is why I generalized.


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## Korro-Sama (Oct 25, 2008)

What oppinion? When I said most, I meant most. If it were true of all, I would have said all. To be perfectly honest, I do sincerely wish I could convert the entire forum into devout Catholic Furries... but since I can't really do that, I'll just step down.  I know there was no withdraw in Mortal Kombat, but oh well. Call it whatever you want, but it occured to me that this thread is either going to turn into a meaningless blogfest, or a pock-marked battleground. I personally prefer the battleground, but oh well.


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## sashadistan (Oct 25, 2008)

I practice a slightly amalgamated belief system which is equal parts First Nations beliefs and Ancient Shinto (not the modern part buddist version of it). Therefore myself as the wolf is my Kami, my spirit, and therefore there is no conflict for me.
It doesn't have much to do with sexual preferences, so I don't consider it.


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## Takun (Oct 25, 2008)

I like most animals more than a lot of people.

8D


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## Gnome (Oct 25, 2008)

1.Depends on which "Christianity" you speak of.

2. Noh, and yes ....Refer to pic please. 

3. you follow you faith your way...not everyone eleses way. Bah!! to conformity in religion.






looks furry to me


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## Quiet269 (Oct 25, 2008)

Korro-Sama said:


> What oppinion? When I said most, I meant most. If it were true of all, I would have said all. To be perfectly honest, I do sincerely wish I could convert the entire forum into devout Catholic Furries... but since I can't really do that, I'll just step down.  I know there was no withdraw in Mortal Kombat, but oh well. Call it whatever you want, but it occured to me that this thread is either going to turn into a meaningless blogfest, or a pock-marked battleground. I personally prefer the battleground, but oh well.



It is your opinion because you cannot back it up with anything. My opinion is that the majority (by a lot) pick and choose what parts of their religion they follow, either by conscious decision or by ignorance of what the rules of their chosen religion actually are.

Also you completely missed my point it seems...


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## Szorn (Oct 25, 2008)

Korro-Sama said:


> OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! There aren't "Flavors of Jesus" you pig. I'm a Christian. Christianity says that Jesus is the SON OF GOD who died so that we wouldn't have to suffer eternal separation from His Holy Presence. Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT CHRISTIAN...





Korro-Sama said:


> ...so many people generalizing their asses off... ^-^ BRING ON THE FIGHTERS! MORTAL KOMBAT HAS BEGUN!



Heheh... Next fighter here.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness (You typed it right, I'm impressed), and while I'm... er... kinda *not* anymore, I'm curious as to why you said that JWs aren't Christian? JWs believe that Jesus is our savior, the messiah, the son of God. (Yahweh, or Jehovah. Same tetragrammaton.)
I'm not taking any offense or being defensive, I'm just curious. And I think that it's kinda funny that you yourself are generalizing.

Alright, that aside. Jehovah's Witnesses are a religion that *is not* compatible with being a furry. End of story, unfortunately. Very strict. Hence the falling out that I'm going through. It's a no-no because of it's association and acceptance of porn, homosexuality, promiscuousness, et cetera. That and it's kinda frowned upon that JWs make good friends with 'worldly people', aka: non-Witnesses. To specify:
Friendly acquaintance with worldly person= okay.
Close friend with worldly person= hmm...
Heterosexual marriage with worldly person= thin ice.
Homosexual relationship/marriage _with anyone_= disfellowship (a goodbye and swift kick to the rear).
Maybe if someone was only a furry in the sense that their job was to dress up as Tiger at Disneyland... but no.

Keeping the two separate? Pfft. Yeah right. I'm having problems because I'm going from JW to full furry while still living at my parents' place. If one's religion is a by-the-book (bible) religion, then being a furry won't work. That's just how it is. If someone wants to try to defend themselves saying that one can indeed be both,_* bring it on*_. >


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## Gnome (Oct 25, 2008)

mmmm, Gnostic flavor Jesus. Tastes obscure. Numnumnum...


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## Takun (Oct 25, 2008)

So how is condemning pagans while keeping idols and decorations in your churches working out?


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## bluewulf1 (Oct 25, 2008)

there is nothing wrong in believeing in something, but i don't want to be the blind sheep that follows the shepard over the edge


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## Gnome (Oct 25, 2008)

then the solution is:
research research research
learn a Arabic language and repeat, 
learn a dead language and repeat,
lean a dead culture and repeat,
understand a percentage of it all
become a egotistical elitist bastard 
(thats what happened to me) =/


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## Jack (Oct 26, 2008)

nothing is incompatible, it is just what you make of it.


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## Yevon (Oct 26, 2008)

I gave up on organized religion for myself.  However I feel that as long as whatever you worship does not lead you to cause harm to a fellow living being then you are just fine in my book.  

Theres too many similarities between religions for me to only follow one.  Even then different religions should not be going aginst one another and saying that theres is the only way even if that is what they believe.  There a hundreds of ways to "convert," someone to your religion if you feel like you need to save there soul.  It is a proven fact that going up to people and saying "Your going to hell, join us!" does not work.  If you offer yourself to questions about your faith and lead others into your faith in a non-threating mannor then by all means spread the word of whatever diety you worship.

I believe that individual worship is the best way to celerbrate your connection with God (or Mahamed, or Buddha, or whichever,) because they know who you are better than anyone else.

-Yevon-


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## Blondi (Oct 26, 2008)

I am a Roman catholic. I dont know what are the atitudes of Catholic Church about furries, but to be honest, I wouldnt care about it. I am also something that is not the "catholic and right way" of life. So... I believe in God. And thats it. In Bible doesnt says that its a sin to be a furrie.


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## CombatRaccoon (Oct 26, 2008)

I agree with you, night. I agree quite a lot. 

I mean, it's pretty obvious that the concept of "furry" wouldn't fly with most religions. But as gnome pointed out, there are religions that do worship animals (I'm not sure about sexually...). In most eastern religions, animals are revered to a certain extent. 
However, many conservatives belonging to western religions seem to have the belief that if it isn't white, male and straight, it's probably a demon.


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## Quiet269 (Oct 26, 2008)

^Well it might, I mean have you studied the Bible and all the meanings within?


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## Nightweaver (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm actually enjoying hearing everyone's views on this, and I've learned a few things so far. I didn't intend to turn this into a war between religion/nonreligion, seriously. But I suppose, being a 'net forum, and a furry one at that, it was gonna happen no matter what I said. Oh well.

I posted this because organized religions (all of them) are mostly mysterious and strange to me. I grew up in a completely agnostic household which neither told me there was a god nor told me there wasn't one. It just never was an issue. My father is an old hippie who believed in the Beatles and flower power, and my mother was similar. I've only been _inside _a church once, ever, and that was for my mother's 2nd wedding. I follow my own set of moral values; that is, what I have determined over the course of almost 30 years of life to be proper and upright things to do.

I see a lot of conflict between religions, which baffles me. There are extremists in every religion who seem to think they can force their beliefs on other people without cause, and that saddens me greatly.  Religion should never be used as a blunt object, to batter people over the head and force them to follow what you believe. It is a personal choice, and one which should be made of free will.

I love being a furry, I love the concept of intelligent animals, it's a great idea. I especially love the art, and artists. Whether religion and society thought it was okay for me to think such things never was an issue; I don't look for external sources of justification for my likes and dislikes. Like a few others have said, if your religion doesn't support furry, I think it may be really time for you to choose which you want more out of life. If you are having religion forced upon you by your parents (which is very likely considering a lot of you are still teens living at home), then you are presented with a difficult situation indeed, and I feel for you. But if you are an independent adult, who knowingly follows furry in direct opposition to your church's doctrines, then what does that speak of your devoutness? While not trying to accuse anyone of open blasphemy, how can you reconcile the fact that you are knowingly breaking your religion's teachings?

Discuss please.


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## Hollow-Dragon (Oct 26, 2008)

Nightweaver said:


> I'm actually enjoying hearing everyone's views on this, and I've learned a few things so far. I didn't intend to turn this into a war between religion/nonreligion, seriously. But I suppose, being a 'net forum, and a furry one at that, it was gonna happen no matter what I said. Oh well.
> 
> I posted this because organized religions (all of them) are mostly mysterious and strange to me. I grew up in a completely agnostic household which neither told me there was a god nor told me there wasn't one. It just never was an issue. My father is an old hippie who believed in the Beatles and flower power, and my mother was similar. I've only been _inside _a church once, ever, and that was for my mother's 2nd wedding. I follow my own set of moral values; that is, what I have determined over the course of almost 30 years of life to be proper and upright things to do.
> 
> ...


 
I agree completely.  Religion should be a personal decision.  I'm not a very religious person at all.  I come from a line of a lot of religious people.  Years ago, I went to church every sunday with my grandparents and also attended bible school during the summer.  Even then, I still wasn't very religious.  Now, I think religion is just plain rediculus.  I also think very religious people are rediculus, because is it me, or has anyone else noticed that very religious people are really stubborn in a general sense?  I mean, they can't accept anyone elses opinion other than their own, not to mention gullible.

These are just my thoughts and observations though, and I'm not pointing at or bashing anyone.


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## Nightweaver (Oct 26, 2008)

Athiests can be even worse sometimes. Religious people want to just convert you, some athiests want to burn down your church and/or advocate murdering religious sects. The point is, there's a constant power struggle among our species about the "us" and the "them." We divide our societies into little fiefdoms and sects because we need to feel accepted, in any context, with other people. Furry fandom is a sect/clique/whatever, so are the Christian sects, Islamic sects, Jewish sects, and athiest sects. 

I've long since come to terms with the fact nobody is going to force anyone to believe anything that isn't in their heart. If someone were to genuinely provide physical evidence of an actual god-thing, I would likely believe it. But so far there has been no evidence this is so. For why would a god need followers if it's all-powerful, if it didn't have a massive ego which needed fulfilling? Gods should not need believers if they are as benevolent and all-powerful as the devout say. But I digress.

Our cultures need their groupings, because we are at our root territorial primates which seek belonging on a primal level. The problem comes when we want to be part of contradictory groups like furry and Western religion, and the struggle that ensues. I find such paradoxes fascinating to study.


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## nachoboy (Oct 27, 2008)

Hollow-Dragon said:


> I agree completely.  Religion should be a personal decision.  I'm not a very religious person at all.  I come from a line of a lot of religious people.  Years ago, I went to church every sunday with my grandparents and also attended bible school during the summer.  Even then, I still wasn't very religious.  Now, I think religion is just plain rediculus.  I also think very religious people are rediculus, because is it me, or has anyone else noticed that very religious people are really stubborn in a general sense?  I mean, they can't accept anyone elses opinion other than their own, not to mention gullible.
> 
> These are just my thoughts and observations though, and I'm not pointing at or bashing anyone.



i can understand thinking religion is ridiculous, because it kind of is, and in a way that's the point, but i don't think you should generalise all religious people into ridiculousness, because most of the religious people i know [and i know a lot... i've lived in mormon territory all my life, and i'm Catholic, and my mom is baptist, and my sister used to go to a non-denominational christian college] aren't the way you've described. i'm definitely glad to to accept whatever beliefs other people may have, unless they hinder my beliefs instead of just sitting opposite them.





Nightweaver said:


> Athiests can be even worse sometimes. Religious people want to just convert you, some athiests want to burn down your church and/or advocate murdering religious sects. The point is, there's a constant power struggle among our species about the "us" and the "them." We divide our societies into little fiefdoms and sects because we need to feel accepted, in any context, with other people. Furry fandom is a sect/clique/whatever, so are the Christian sects, Islamic sects, Jewish sects, and athiest sects.
> 
> I've long since come to terms with the fact nobody is going to force anyone to believe anything that isn't in their heart. If someone were to genuinely provide physical evidence of an actual god-thing, I would likely believe it. But so far there has been no evidence this is so. For why would a god need followers if it's all-powerful, if it didn't have a massive ego which needed fulfilling? Gods should not need believers if they are as benevolent and all-powerful as the devout say. But I digress.
> 
> Our cultures need their groupings, because we are at our root territorial primates which seek belonging on a primal level. The problem comes when we want to be part of contradictory groups like furry and Western religion, and the struggle that ensues. I find such paradoxes fascinating to study.



i understand you not believing in God. i have felt/experienced sufficient evidence to cause me to believe in God. it's cool for you to believe whatever you want and i definitely acknowledge that maybe i can't change what you believe in.

also, God doesn't need believers, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want them. in the book of Romans, it says:
 "It is written: 
   " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 
   'every knee will bow before me; 
      every tongue will confess to God.' "
this isn't because God wants followers, but because he can have them. and knowing that being a member of his followers will save our eternal souls is reason enough for us to try and share this belief, therefore saving more people.

also, back to the first questions, i'm Catholic and i don't see a problem with being a furry. i agree with a lot of the things Korro_Sama said. i'm just trying to explain or describe the ways i see people by representing them as animals. i'm only into the clean parts of the furry culture, so i don't think what i'm doing goes against my religion. i guess religion clashing with being a furry depends on what religion you are and what parts of the fandom you subscribe to.


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## Hollow-Dragon (Oct 27, 2008)

nachoboy said:


> i can understand thinking religion is ridiculous, because it kind of is, and in a way that's the point, but i don't think you should generalise all religious people into ridiculousness, because most of the religious people i know [and i know a lot... i've lived in mormon territory all my life, and i'm Catholic, and my mom is baptist, and my sister used to go to a non-denominational christian college] aren't the way you've described. i'm definitely glad to to accept whatever beliefs other people may have, unless they hinder my beliefs instead of just sitting opposite them.


 
Well... I didn't mean to gerneralise ALL religious people like that, I'm just saying I see a lot of religious folk are like that, not all of them are though.  I know a lot of very religious people as well.  Take my grandma for example, if you try to changer her view on any subject, now matter how hard you try, you will fail in the most epic of ways.


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## dwolv (Oct 27, 2008)

This is a reason why I am more spiritual than religious. I'm a christian and I believe in god, but I found lot's of religious practices are not spiritually moving to all people of faith. Some people see god as a figure who condemns and destroys the wicked and spares the faithful. I see god as more of a being who helps guide the faithful and loving to leave their mark on the world. 

Anthro can be favorable and unfavorable in the eyes of god depending on where you draw the line between art/lifestyle and intention.


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## Szorn (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, I be agreeing with a lot of the peoples here. It does seem odd that every religion believes that it is the only true religion, it does seem odd that every 'true' religion wants to convert every person in the world to said religion. I am now finding it to be very annoying, yes.



Nightweaver said:


> I've long since come to terms with the fact nobody is going to force anyone to believe anything that isn't in their heart. If someone were to genuinely provide physical evidence of an actual god-thing...



Yup. It's true.
That and this...:



Hollow-Dragon said:


> I agree completely.  Religion should be a personal decision.  I'm not a very religious person at all.  I come from a line of a lot of religious people.  Years ago, I went to church every sunday with my grandparents and also attended bible school during the summer.  Even then, I still wasn't very religious.  Now, I think religion is just plain rediculus.  I also think very religious people are rediculus, because is it me, or has anyone else noticed that very religious people are really stubborn in a general sense?  I mean, they can't accept anyone elses opinion other than their own, not to mention gullible.



...are big reasons that I am no longer a religious person. The other reasons are I'm a '_rebellious 18-year-old teenager_', and... *I'm a furry!*

Instead of staying in a religion while conveniently forgetting some of the guidelines, I'm just giving it up completely at this point.

Honestly, it hurts to say so, knowing that it could mean that I lose almost all of my family and most of my IRL friends. But that's the choice that I've made.

In a way, I envy you, Nightweaver, because you've not had these things pounded into your head since birth. I have. And even tho I know that it is what it all comes down to, ripping away the loyalty that comes with belief is hard. I'm not rejecting things like morals, but it's just as hard...


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## Azure (Oct 27, 2008)

Religion is incompatible with everything.


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## GraemeLion (Oct 27, 2008)

Given that CS Lewis is one that Christians like to quote, and given that Lewis anthropomorphized Jesus and in many cases made it clear that he believed Jesus could have a variety of avatars (Including in so-called Pagan religions!), no, I would not think it would be against Christianity.


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## seekerwolf (Oct 27, 2008)

Another reason to hate, cause war, and justify actions.


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## WarTheifX (Oct 27, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> So how is condemning pagans while keeping idols and decorations in your churches working out?


 
I'm with this guy. I like the graphs, makes things easier to understand.

And that's why I have no religion. Not an Atheist, no. I just yiff, then go with the flow.


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## KiloCharlie (Nov 15, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> So how is condemning pagans while keeping idols and decorations in your churches working out?



Damn.... unfortunate, but usually true (my mom is a devout Mormon and about as dumb as they come) besides... most religion (in my opinion is complete bogus, bollocks, useless inconsequential etc... if any religion got anything right, it was Paganism (Halloween {fav holiday} is a PAGAN holiday...)) and for all intents and purposes, why don't we (furries) band together and form our own religion (while it might not be recognized by Nat. Govt.) we will still have one... i'm all for that option...


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## Jax (Nov 22, 2008)

Deep in it here are we? I left the church years ago. The answers did not add up to me. I could not imagine God needing so much from us. Seems we've felt the need to have God share our weaknesses. Oh I believe in a creator.  Seems to me chance and genetics are uncomfortable together. No, I do not believe things are planned out...there does seem to be a system though. My mother was just the opposite...she was a fatalist. I figured if every thing was already destined...what was the point of it all? 
I have my beliefs, as strange as they are, but I will stand with most peoples right to worship as they find necessary. Do unto others as you...unless you are a masochist. I expect some would like to throw big rocks at me for even suggesting animals and man are not separated  by much (if at all). There is nothing I find at odds with being a furry and being spiritual. 

True, wars have often been fought over religion...but then again how many died during the Soviet Unions dark days. Lack of religion does not seem to reduce the blood shed. Pol Pot comes to mind. Seems he was so intent on banning religion. To pray would bring death. Kim Il Jung is not exactly fond of religion.

We don't need to band together and form our own furry religion...we just need to respect one another. It really is not that hard. Nothing about being furry contradicts that. Do you stop and think "I can not help my friend because he follows a different religion than I?" If you do, go stand in the corner. We have the question and the answers already. Look for it and you will find it. 
OK, let me bolt the door now. Just put your paw out to the person next to you OK?


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## brrrr (Nov 22, 2008)

Jax has my full agreement on this subject. Well said.


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## Telnac (Nov 23, 2008)

Nightweaver said:


> OK, let me start this thread off with a note: *I fully support whatever religious beliefs you hold. This thread is not designed to intimidate, make fun of, or belittle any religion. This is merely to find out information for my own edification. Thank you.
> 
> *With that said, I would like to know a few things about anybody who is devoutly religious in the fandom:
> 
> ...



1) I am a Bible-believing Christian.  I believe the Bible is the True Word of God, and I see no problem with being a furry.  Disney's Robin Hood isn't in any way blasphemous.  It's fiction and art.  Likewise, being a furry isn't blasphemous in and of itself.  Elevating an animal to the point of worshipping it, that would cross the line.  But as for me, I like dragons.  I mean, I _*really*_ like dragons!  But I worship God.  I don't worship a dragon.

2) The sexual side of the fandom is no more or less inherently evil than the sexual side of humanity as a whole.  How is yiffy porn any more or less sinful than human porn?  Yes, the Bible is very clear that sex with animals is sinful.  But so is sex with your neighbor's wife.  How many church attendees have porn DVDs featuring a fictional account of infidelity?  Really, is that really any less sinful than yiffy pron art (especially since no one likely had sex in the production of the art...?!)

Yes, I have a sexual attraction toward dragons.  But there is nothing sinful about being attracted to anything.  I may think my neighbor's wife is hot stuff, but unless I act on that desire (either by indulging in lustful fantasies or by actually trying to seduce her) I have done nothing sinful.  Far too many so-called Bible believing Christians are quick to condemn all gays, furries or anyone else they consider outside the norm.  But, in doing that, aren't they also condemning themselves.  Which brings me to...

3) We are all sinners.  We have all fallen short of the glory of God.  That's a truth more Christians should consider more often.  No, this isn't a license to sin.  But it's a fact that we cann't stand in judgment of another and call ourselves Christians.  All of us, gay, straight, furry or not... we all need Christ in our lives.

If I find a furry woman to be my wife and we have wild sex in fursuits every night... how is that your concern?  For that matter, how is that even sinful?  (And for those of you who think anything but missionary is sinful: I've read the Bible cover to cover 3 times now and most of the rest of it far more times than that, so please: give me the chapter & verse to support your claim.)


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## Jax (Nov 23, 2008)

Telnac said:


> 1) I am a Bible-believing Christian.  I believe the Bible is the True Word of God, and I see no problem with being a furry.  Disney's Robin Hood isn't in any way blasphemous.  It's fiction and art.  Likewise, being a furry isn't blasphemous in and of itself.  Elevating an animal to the point of worshipping it, that would cross the line.  But as for me, I like dragons.  I mean, I _*really*_ like dragons!  But I worship God.  I don't worship a dragon.
> 
> 2) The sexual side of the fandom is no more or less inherently evil than the sexual side of humanity as a whole.  How is yiffy porn any more or less sinful than human porn?  Yes, the Bible is very clear that sex with animals is sinful.  But so is sex with your neighbor's wife.  How many church attendees have porn DVDs featuring a fictional account of infidelity?  Really, is that really any less sinful than yiffy pron art (especially since no one likely had sex in the production of the art...?!)
> 
> ...



That my dear friends is an example of class. He has his beliefs, is true to them, some are different than mine but he has not stepped on my tail. 
Dragons are cool!
Thanks


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## Telnac (Nov 23, 2008)

Jax said:


> That my dear friends is an example of class. He has his beliefs, is true to them, some are different than mine but he has not stepped on my tail.
> Dragons are cool!
> Thanks


Thanks!  Your comments are pretty much dead-on too.  In truth, it's the fact that many Christians are quick to judge others that really rubs me the wrong way, because Jesus put a great deal of emphasis on not judging others! If more Christians would sit down and actually read the Bible (or even just read the Gospels) and really apply it to their lives, I think Christianity wouldn't have the bad reputation that it does.


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## LycanArisun (Nov 25, 2008)

All religions cause harm to society.

Spiritual awareness is completely different.
I find myself to be very of the liking, and there is no "God" just whatever metaphor you make for him. Want enlightenment? Want revelation? God = You. 

Find out your OWN beliefs, not something else that's already in existence. That makes for a very easily disposable society.


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## LycanArisun (Nov 25, 2008)

Good job Telnac, you're able to recite a fiction book. What does that have to do with the actual world? Also, people saying we shouldnt put humans and animals together...wtf? A human IS an animal with emotional thought process(look to my sig). Your own mind is making up this farce of gods, its not actually there. There is no such thing as faith, just luck.


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## Alblaka (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm a religious christ, an otherkin and a fan of molecular physics ^^

Yes, the combination is creepy, but it really works XD

I'm beleiving in god. But i don't say "The bible is allmighty, follow it totally!" The bible is a book, that was written by humans. And cuz no human can understand the real god totally (I can't that too), that book can't tell you the total truth, too.

So i simply ignore some of the "rules" cuz i don't think they are very useful.
Why god gave us the possibility to mate if we shouldn't do? And so on, etc, etc...

I do, what i want, as long, as i am sure it is nothing against the sense of life...

I see no conflict between anything and religion...


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## technicolor222 (Nov 28, 2008)

well, I'm a Mormon and I live by strict Mormon standards... so basically, I'm high on religion. (Mormons are Christians, in case you were wondering).

1) Nawwww... Having an interest in anthropomorphic animals isn't a sin :b that is, unless it gets to the point that its' consumed your life as a human being... in which case, it's not only a sin, but it's stupid.

2) My religion is strictly against porn and any other activities used to arouse sexual feelings and such. We're also against judging other people, so I wont judge you guys, don't worry, but I would never look at porn, furry or no. My religion would disapprove. Also, sex is strictly to occur within the boundaries of marriage... after that, anything goes basically :b as long as it's with your own spouse.

3) If you're anything like me, you can probably find a way to be a furry and stay within the boundaries of your religious standards. If you have a religion that thinks you're sinfully worshiping animals, especially if they are accusing you in a way that makes you feel guilty, I would suggest maybe leaving. My religion approaches these problems in a calm, nonjudgmental manner.

LycanArisun, I'm okay with athiests, but I wont tolerate slander to any religion, be it Christian or otherwise. It's unethical.


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## Telnac (Nov 28, 2008)

LycanArisun said:


> Good job Telnac, you're able to recite a fiction book. What does that have to do with the actual world? Also, people saying we shouldnt put humans and animals together...wtf? A human IS an animal with emotional thought process(look to my sig). Your own mind is making up this farce of gods, its not actually there. There is no such thing as faith, just luck.


You're welcome to believe that.  But even before I was a Christian, I experienced plenty of things that convinced me that the supernatural realm really does exist, some of which can't be explained even if I were completely insane.

When I accepted Christ, I believed that the Bible may have been once true as originally written, but it's since been translated and re-translated so many times it can't possibly be more useful than as a general guide.  But as I've read more and more of it and applied its teachings to my life, I've been able to place greater and greater faith in it.  And as I learned more and more about late Roman, Medieval and Renaissance history (thank you, SCA) I've learned that many of pre-conceived notions I had about the Bible simply weren't true.  Yes, no translation can be considered the Word of God... only the Bible as written in the original Hebrew & Greek.  But the manuscripts we have are very consistent with each other and are all quite old.  The most widely used & accepted modern translations all use those old manuscripts, not just a modern interpretation of older translations.

It's been 16 years since I accepted Christ (yes, I'm old), I've read the Bible cover-to-cover multiple times and I believe it is in fact the True Word of God.  My only lament is that more Christians don't actually read it and lean what it actually says.  There is so much more there than you'll ever hear from a pulpit.


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## KiloCharlie (Nov 28, 2008)

i've been atheist for several years... the moment i dumped religion my life took a good turn... i try not to be quick to judge others based on their spiritual choices... believe what you want, i don't give a damn just as long as there is no effect on me... the only thing i think ANY modern religion got right is the topic of Karma... it exists... i'm convinced...


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## Tackle (Nov 28, 2008)

Well...
I'm an Evengelical Christian...Brother in faith with Catholics...
I come from a very religious family and home...I studied in a Christian School and High School...I go to church once each week...on Saturday and/or Sunday...
God, in my opinion, does exists and has always existed. And has, since the start, done everything for humanity...
It has been millions of years after that time...and we (Humans) are still here...alive...even after all our sins and mistakes...Mistakes and sins that repeat themselves again and again...just like in the Book of Judges (Humankind sinned, judges were sent to save them, they were saved and years later, they returned to their sinful ways...13 times that same happened...)
Anyways...I'm not here to simply rub our nature in our face...No...I'm here because I think that people is forgetting some important aspects...
Just like Telnac and Jax said, (Which BTW, I totally agree with them) all we need is respect one another, and avoid judging.
Even though I live in a very religious....eh..."environment", I'm not one of the most religious persons in this world...But I do believe in God and respect other's beliefs.
Punctually answering the questions the topic creator did:
_
1. Isn't being a furry incompatible with some religions? Doesn't Christianity prohibit its members from being part of something which uplifts animals to the level of human beings? Isn't that blasphemy? This isn't intended to be offensive, I genuinely don't know. :/

*_ As far as I'm concerned, none of us here worships animals or makes offerings to them, right? If we don't cross the line between liking and worshipping, Everything's all right.
_
2. If your religion does support furry either explicitly or implicitly, does it support the sexual aspect? I mean, are there really religions out there tolerant enough to sustain furry porn and the like? I would think that the more conservative, human-centered sects would sharply denounce this fandom, seeing it as "evil" and "blasphemous" to dare uplift "mere animals" to human intelligence.
_
* I'm sure that my religion would see the furry fandom's sexual...peculiarities, as something bad and evil...Lust is one of the "Seven deadly sins" after all...But still...The fandom centers itself around animals...Bestiality IS punished in the bible...but we're not practicing bestiality here...It's just a liking. We like something like humans and animals (Be them real or fictional), call them dragons, foxes, wolfs, smuts, digimons, etc...
_
3. If your religion doesn't support the ideas and concepts in the fandom, how can you keep the two separate? Do you see an inherent conflict between what you worship and what you do in your free time?
_
* I really don't see any conflict...I just think that it's a good idea to keep them both at a small distance. Why? Because of people's intolerance.
Being a furry is not bad, as I stated some lines above, so no.
I think I'm doing the right thing.
...
Well...I hope that proves to be helpful. ^.=.^
Have a good day.


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## Cooon (Nov 28, 2008)

I think its _possible_ but not easy. Most religions teach that being with another man is a bad thing, and a lot of people in the fandom are homosexual. I think a part of the fandom is to be able to tolerate everybody, and to not ged mad at people for being different. Many furs are social outcasts. This causes a great variety in personalities here. But, coming back to the question, religion doesn't accept people as well. I have a few friends who tried to force themselves not to be gay, because their parents were christian. They couldn't live that lie, so came out of the closet. These are examples of cases where religion didn't accept. (sorry, i may be drifting off from the question, i just need to make a point) Parts of religion and religion in general is just a tradition we need to break out of. Science proved that mentally retarded people wern't possesed. We now believe that. Science proves there are no witches. We now believe that. Science proves that being homosexual is natural. But we hold on to an old tradition. So in the end, being religious and furry is going against some values that must be held in the fandom. But i won't stand in anybody's way, they can be religious and furry, i just wouldn't reccomend it.


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## technicolor222 (Nov 28, 2008)

Cooon said:


> I think its _possible_ but not easy. Most religions teach that being with another man is a bad thing, and a lot of people in the fandom are homosexual. I think a part of the fandom is to be able to tolerate everybody, and to not ged mad at people for being different. Many furs are social outcasts. This causes a great variety in personalities here. But, coming back to the question, religion doesn't accept people as well. I have a few friends who tried to force themselves not to be gay, because their parents were christian. They couldn't live that lie, so came out of the closet. These are examples of cases where religion didn't accept. (sorry, i may be drifting off from the question, i just need to make a point) Parts of religion and religion in general is just a tradition we need to break out of. Science proved that mentally retarded people wern't possesed. We now believe that. Science proves there are no witches. We now believe that. Science proves that being homosexual is natural. But we hold on to an old tradition. So in the end, being religious and furry is going against some values that must be held in the fandom. But i won't stand in anybody's way, they can be religious and furry, i just wouldn't reccomend it.



Matt 5:44 -  But I say unto you, love your enemieshttp://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/5/44b, bless them that cuse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Technically, any good Christian man shouldn't "Get mad" at gays or anyone for that matter.

Not every religion believes mentally retarded people were posessed. There ARE witches, it's a satanist religion, however that doesn't mean witches have evil demonic powers etc. etc. My church dosn't shoot down that homosexuality is natural, but they still say acting upon it is sinful... in fact, lusting after anyone before marriage is sinful.

The biggest problem I've found with what you've said is you make it sound like it's impossible to be a religiois, heterosexual furry with nonreligious homosexual/bisexual friends. I'm a nonsexual male Christian furry, and my church says (as well as the bible) that we shouldn't judge people for who they are, and that we should befriend everyone.

I'm not trying to shoot you down or anything ^^; you actually have a valid point. I'm more writing this for myself, to prove to myself that I can be a devoted Christian furry without facing the judgement of God.


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## Werevixen (Nov 28, 2008)

I'm just going to wait untill the LHC results come in.


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## Nikolai (Nov 28, 2008)

*doesn't read the other replies, and just replies to the first one*

Gah. I just wrote almost five paragraphs and accidentally hit the keyboard shortcut for back from typing to fast. >_< *starts all over* 


Well, from a Christian perspective, I'd say it doesn't matter whether you're furry or not. Let me explain:

First off, you have to realize what Christianity is. Look at the word. Put in it's most essential form, Christianity is simply believing with a blind faith that Christ is God, and he died on the Cross to form a new deal with humanity. The whole idea is that if you believe and accept the death as truth in it's whole, then all your sins (Which I have defined as any thought or deed imperfect in the eyes of God) are gone, past present and future, and you can't lose that.

Now, some people believe that you can lose your salvation, so here's my defense against that. God isn't bound by time, therefore, when he clears yours sins, he does it past present and future, which means that anything you would have done to lose your salvation is already accounted for, so if a sin could make you lose your salvation, then he wouldn't be able to save your in the first place, which means you wouldn't have the salvation to lose at all. It's a paradox. And if you then say that it means you just can't be saved in the first place if you do this, you forget free will.

Now, some people hate Christianity because they say it limits free will. If God knows all, then everything's already been established and you can't decide NOT do to what God's already decided, which means what's the point in free will? 

However, they still view time as _linear_ in a way.

I like to think about time like this: You have a large piece of yarn, and coming out from it are a million upon a million threads, which branch off into a million threads on their own at every conceivable point. Now, as time progresses along this thread, any event that is done is wound into the thread, any eventuality that never happened, is cut off. So every possibility is possible, but once it's been done it can't be undone. We can't see every single possiblity, but God can. 

So God can see every single tiny shift in time (down to whether I press the H key, the M key, or the miniscule differences in whether I'm one nanometer to the left or not when I press it, continuing down infinitely to the small possiblities. So that means that God can see every single infinite possibility of every eventuality of everything.) so he can see the future. He can see everything, but does that mean what he sees has to happen the way he sees it? Yes, and No. It has to happen in some form he sees it, because he saw what could happen, but it doesn't have to happen to any one pre-decided eventuality. So no matter what you do, you still do it, but God knew that you could do it, and he knew all that would happen if you did, or if you didn't. Bang! free will, and Omniscience. 

Alright, back to my original point. If being a furry was a sin, and it can't make you lose your salvation, then being a Christian Furry is entirely possible. Yes, it is a sin to have sex with animals, but you don't have to have animal sex to be a furry. Which means using other sins as an excuse to justify the 'evil' in Furryness is wrong.

So there you have it.

Now, what about all those other sins? Getting angry, swearing out people, even the Ten Commandments? Well, God says don't do it. If you do it, then you're still safe since you can't lose your salvation. So why would God say don't do it? Because those sins in life hurt things around you. Pork is an unclean meat, and when not cooked thoroughly, it can cause disease and is generally unhealthy. If he's trying to keep the jewish people alive in the desert, telling them not to eat pork is a pretty good idea. Same goes for Shrimp, lobster, most bottom-feeders like that. However, does that mean you're going to hell for eating it? No, you can't lose your salvation. Does that mean you probably shouldn't eat it (especially in excess) Yes. But we do it anyway. Even going to church isn't required, since the definition of Church isn't a building. If you're a Christian, and you're talking to another Christian, guess what? You're in church! The Church is the group of Christians, not the building. The building's just a symbol. People forget that.

So does being a furry make you not a Christian? No. Is it blasphemous? Depends on who's shouting it out. Does it matter? Nope. Even if being Furry was a sin however, you're not going to Hell for it if you're still a Christian. 

So Christians can be Furries, and it doesn't matter. I just spent about twenty minutes typing (correction, typing it twice!) to explain that one sentence. ^^

Now what about being accepted by others? Most western societies are very unaccepting of this, and yet, we can be very accepting at the same time. All depends on how it's viewed. But the core idea is... it doesn't matter. If you get thrown out of your bible study because you said you're a furry, that's not because you're not a real Christian, it's because those people won't accept it. God's not going to turn you away because you're a Furry, and personally, humanity is too fallible to try and always please. I'd much rather do things right in the eyes of God than my peers. That's the sum of it.

Be afraid of reading into the Furry fandom as well, being a furry simply means liking to draw, watch, read, or experience furry art. Does it mean you wish you were an animal? No. Does it mean you want to have sex with animals? No. All of those may be sins unto themselves perhaps, but like with all sins, they won't make you lose your salvation, but God tells us not to do them for our own survival.

=\

It was better the first time I typed it.


*inevitably DOES read one post*

LHC FTW. =D I'm crossing my fingers for a Black Hole. A real one, not the miniature ones. Or some kind of cataclysmic death of the world. I'd like to die that way.


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## technicolor222 (Nov 28, 2008)

Nikolai said:


> *doesn't read the other replies, and just replies to the first one*
> 
> Gah. I just wrote almost five paragraphs and accidentally hit the keyboard shortcut for back from typing to fast. >_< *starts all over*
> 
> ...



I think what you've said makes sense, but chew on this for a second. If we all have a full ride scholarship to heaven, then what's the point of God sending us to Earth in the first place? We're here to be tested and tried. Why would God give us the law of Moses and the beatitudes if we didn't have to follow them? There has to be a punishment.

I don't believe God gave us the commandments as 'guidelines', or they wouldn't be called 'commandments'. So, technically, if we're saved by grace and grace alone, we could enter and exit this world without learning or gaining anything and still receive eternal salvation. And then there would be nonreligious people who follow the commandments and grow up as good people, and exit the world with vast knowledge of good and evil, but they go to hell because they never accepted Christ as their true savior. If that's the way it is, God's a jerk.

Matt 25:14-29 likens the world to 3 men. The Lord gave the first man 5 talents, the second one received 2 talents, and the 1st one received 1 talent (mind you, this is currency, not the modern definition of 'talent'). When the first man returned to the Lord he presented him with 10 talents, because he had added to his original 5. The Lord was pleased and told him to enter into the joy of the lord. The man with 2 talents returned to the lord and presented him with 4 talents. The lord was pleased and told him to enter into the joy of the Lord. However, the man with 1 talent approached the lord with none, because the man had hid the talent in the ground in fear that he might lose it. The lord turned the man away, dissapointed.

The symbolism here:

The men - us
The talents - what knowledge of goodness we enter the world with and exit the world with
The joy of the lord - The Kingdom of Heaven

so, according to this parable, the Lord judges us by our works, and not just our grace.

However, I think I agree with most of what you said aside from the entire 'losing your salvation' bit. you CAN lose your salvation. I don't believe in Hell though, but I believe theres more than just heaven.

Reguardless, being a furry in and of itself is not a sin, but there are some things in the furry fandom that can be sinful. It's like how killing ins't a sin, but if it's murder and not for the defense of your country etc. it is.


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## Cooon (Nov 28, 2008)

technicolor222 said:


> Matt 5:44 -  But I say unto you, love your enemieshttp://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/5/44b, bless them that cuse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
> 
> Technically, any good Christian man shouldn't "Get mad" at gays or anyone for that matter.
> 
> ...



You'll have to understand that i'm growing up with all my uncles, aunts, grandparents, cousins, etc trying to convert me. My grampa forgot what instrument i play, my aunt doesn't know my middle name, my cousin doesn't even know my age. All they know is i should be christian. This doesn't put a good impression on the church. But i know not all christians are like that. Unfortunatly, i only know one who isn't. But he comes from a unique sect of christianity. My family is mormon. The two sects have totally different values. What i'm trying to say is, the only religious people I really know are this way. You obviously arn't, and i think thats awsome. Sorry if you felt like i was trying to say all religious people are that way.


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## kitsubaka (Nov 28, 2008)

Telnac said:


> 1) I am a Bible-believing Christian.  I believe the Bible is the True Word of God, and I see no problem with being a furry.  Disney's Robin Hood isn't in any way blasphemous.  It's fiction and art.  Likewise, being a furry isn't blasphemous in and of itself.  Elevating an animal to the point of worshipping it, that would cross the line.  But as for me, I like dragons.  I mean, I _*really*_ like dragons!  But I worship God.  I don't worship a dragon.
> 
> 2) The sexual side of the fandom is no more or less inherently evil than the sexual side of humanity as a whole.  How is yiffy porn any more or less sinful than human porn?  Yes, the Bible is very clear that sex with animals is sinful.  But so is sex with your neighbor's wife.  How many church attendees have porn DVDs featuring a fictional account of infidelity?  Really, is that really any less sinful than yiffy pron art (especially since no one likely had sex in the production of the art...?!)
> 
> ...



You are a pretty cool dude if I say so myself man.

I'm with this guy, I believe in God and the ones that misread and mistranslate the bible and are all out to purify the world of indignities are messing me up.

I am also a very very VERY big believer in all things supernatural; take it or leave it anyone regardless of relgion can be rude (hence LycanArisun 'u r religion iz a lie' kinda comments that just love to put a swing on things in this kind of discussion)


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## Nikolai (Nov 28, 2008)

technicolor222 said:


> I think what you've said makes sense, but chew on this for a second. If we all have a full ride scholarship to heaven, then what's the point of God sending us to Earth in the first place? We're here to be tested and tried. Why would God give us the law of Moses and the beatitudes if we didn't have to follow them? There has to be a punishment.
> 
> I don't believe God gave us the commandments as 'guidelines', or they wouldn't be called 'commandments'. So, technically, if we're saved by grace and grace alone, we could enter and exit this world without learning or gaining anything and still receive eternal salvation. And then there would be nonreligious people who follow the commandments and grow up as good people, and exit the world with vast knowledge of good and evil, but they go to hell because they never accepted Christ as their true savior. If that's the way it is, God's a jerk.
> 
> ...



Oh, I didn't touch base on that stuff just yet. I was just dealing with whether being a Furry would mean losing your salvation. What we do in this world does reflect on us in heaven, and God will reward those who do the greatest good. But will being a furry mean you go to Hell, or mean you have to be turned away from your religion? No. That's the point I was trying to get at.

Heh. I love a smart forum. ^^


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## Telnac (Nov 28, 2008)

Cooon said:


> Science proves there are no witches. We now believe that.


!?!  There are plenty of witches!  Some of my friends are witches and will proudly tell you that.


kitsubaka said:


> You are a pretty cool dude if I say so myself man.


Thanks.


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## Nikolai (Nov 28, 2008)

Telnac said:


> !?!  There are plenty of witches!  Some of my friends are witches and will proudly tell you that.



Without reading the post that it came from, I'd say that it was borderline sarcasm. 

Science says it's not, therefore we accept that it is. Yes, there are people who call themselves witches, but do we believe in them? Society has a tendency to believe in the Religion of Science (Yes, I do believe Science is a Religion every bit as much as Buddhism, Christanity, Catholicism etc. is.) before other religions. Science is the religion of making it as understandable, believable, and 'down to earth' as possible by observing only what we believe is true. It's the anti-faith religion.


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## technicolor222 (Nov 28, 2008)

Cooon said:


> You'll have to understand that i'm growing up with all my uncles, aunts, grandparents, cousins, etc trying to convert me. My grampa forgot what instrument i play, my aunt doesn't know my middle name, my cousin doesn't even know my age. All they know is i should be christian. This doesn't put a good impression on the church. But i know not all christians are like that. Unfortunatly, i only know one who isn't. But he comes from a unique sect of christianity. My family is mormon. The two sects have totally different values. What i'm trying to say is, the only religious people I really know are this way. You obviously arn't, and i think thats awsome. Sorry if you felt like i was trying to say all religious people are that way.



I took no offense ^^

Heheh... I'm a Mormon too bud ^^; the worst breed, actually... I'm a Utah Mormon, born and raised in the church :b

What I noticed about the people you mentioned who wanted to convert you to Mormonism is that they are all from your non-immediate family. Here's something to chew on, Mormons multiply like rabbits (If there are any rabbits here, please take no offense)... if yours like most Mormon families I know (my own included), you're family is big, no? To be honest, I don't even know the first names of most of my cousins, aunts and uncles... it's kind of the way it is.

I'm sure your family is mostly concerned about you. I had an uncle who died a few months ago, he was in drug rehab for several months. My family didn't necessarily understand or know how to approach this situation, but they, as a family, met every week to discuss how they could help my uncle recover. Mormons take their family lives very seriously. So I'm sure you're family isn't trying to 'convert you' to add to the mormon population... I doubt it's the zombie effect where they are just trying to pull you in to make you 'one of them'.

I'm not trying to convert you either, by the way, I'm simply speaking my mind.

You're from Utah too, no? the problem with Utah Mormons is that most of them don't know how to treat nonmembers since they rarely show up. I'm 17-years-old and I think I understand Christianity better than 90% of adults I know. Hell, I know some people here who say athiests and homosexuals are the scum of the earth, which is direct violation of Mormon standards.

if you know mormons who are getting literally angry about their peers being homosexual etc., then tell them to read 3 Nephi 12:44 and Matt 7:1, that should shut them up.

I hope you havn't lost any inch of respect you may have had for me ^^; but don't blame the church for your own families ignorance, that's their own fault.


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## KiloCharlie (Nov 28, 2008)

*sigh* why did i click myself into a religious post? *leaves*


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## Psudowolf (Nov 28, 2008)

technicolor222 said:


> I took no offense ^^
> 
> Heheh... I'm a Mormon too bud ^^; the worst breed, actually... I'm a Utah Mormon, born and raised in the church :b
> 
> ...


Hey, another mormon from Utah! *waves*
Yeah, people here do multiply like rabbits. 
I don't really care about the church anymore. Sure, I still believe in god but I just don't care. The church can run around and get their panties in a bunch, because that's what they do. Run around and try to be the world's spiritual police. Just like america is the world's peacekeepers. We don't have to be. But we are.


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## jagdwolf (Nov 28, 2008)

religion is an orginization.
faith is a belief
furry is a way of life

you can belong to whatever orginizations you like
you can believe what ever your heart and mind desire
but until they find a way you can only be a furry in your heart..........
will gladly help fund the way..........


I study the Kabalion, an ancient Hermetic writing.  I graduated from a christian school (I went for the education.  My grad. class was 16.)  I failed my religion finals because we had to write a thesis as our senior class finals.  I wrote mine on religion (actually a comparison of 4 religions) vs. satanism/occultism.  They failed me because of my comparisions.  Thank the stars I was working for Disney at the time, and had the money to hire an attorney and sue the school.  It was in the state of Florida, and I won.  

My faith in religion is less than my faith they will find a way to make me into a real wolf on the outside.

desperatly trying to find a way to shed this human skin


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## technicolor222 (Nov 28, 2008)

Psudowolf said:


> Hey, another mormon from Utah! *waves*
> Yeah, people here do multiply like rabbits. My family however is small. (four people)
> I don't really care about the church anymore. Sure, I still believe in god, but I just don't care.



Coolio :3 we have more! I only know one other besides you ^^;


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## Psudowolf (Nov 28, 2008)

technicolor222 said:


> Coolio :3 we have more! I only know one other besides you ^^;


 Nice. In which part of utah do you live in? 
(PM me if you don't wish to reveal it in public)


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## technicolor222 (Nov 28, 2008)

I PM'd you ^^


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## Psudowolf (Nov 28, 2008)

Thankies. ^^


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## Cooon (Nov 28, 2008)

Telnac said:


> !?!  There are plenty of witches!  Some of my friends are witches and will proudly tell you that.
> 
> Thanks.



witches as in, medival, spell casting, etc etc witches? No, not anymore. Unless you were so involved in a fantasy videogame while you wrote that review that you forgot about the real world.
(i'm about to use really heavy sarcasm that i used on my friend the other day. Don't take this personally. Or do. Watever works for you)
I think ya'll should see religulos. I saw it today. Was wonderful. Best movie ever. And if you go see it in the tower theatre, they have a great selection of gay/lesbian movies you can rent!


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## Hyenaworks (Nov 29, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> So how is condemning pagans while keeping idols and decorations in your churches working out?



Stalin was an atheist. According to the last graphic he apparently killed more people than God in the Bible. 


But seriously, it's not incompatible.  Really depends on what religion and what sect you apply to.  There are plenty of Christian sects that basically say all you gotta do is love and have faith in God.  That's it.


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## KiloCharlie (Nov 29, 2008)

Hyenaworks said:


> Stalin was an atheist. According to the last graphic he apparently killed more people than God in the Bible.
> 
> 
> But seriously, it's not incompatible.  Really depends on what religion and what sect you apply to.  There are plenty of Christian sects that basically say all you gotta do is love and have faith in God.  That's it.



bush is a christian... how about how many ppl HE's killed with iraq etc...


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## Hyenaworks (Nov 29, 2008)

KiloCharlie said:


> bush is a christian... how about how many ppl HE's killed with iraq etc...



Nowhere near the level of Stalin or perhaps the Communist take over of Vietnam that resulted in a 2-3 million person genocide by a secular government. 

Frankly, people are to be blamed for such things.  Blaming it on religion is irrational.


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## nachoboy (Nov 29, 2008)

technicolor222 said:


> I think what you've said makes sense, but chew on this for a second. If we all have a full ride scholarship to heaven, then what's the point of God sending us to Earth in the first place? We're here to be tested and tried. Why would God give us the law of Moses and the beatitudes if we didn't have to follow them? There has to be a punishment.



first of all, the beatitudes ARE just guidelines. and second, yeah, we are supposed to follow the commandments, but if we don't, we've been forgiven through Christ's death. Jesus' coming and death changed some things that were said in the Old Testament. and third, i don't think it's reasonable to be questioning the point of God sending us to earth. He's a higher being than us, as said in Isaiah 55 -- "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." for all we know, God could have just been like, "oh, hey, I'll have some fun and create some people to put on a planet I'll make. it should be a fun project, and we'll see how it turns out."



technicolor222 said:


> I don't believe God gave us the commandments as 'guidelines', or they wouldn't be called 'commandments'. So, technically, if we're saved by grace and grace alone, we could enter and exit this world without learning or gaining anything and still receive eternal salvation. And then there would be nonreligious people who follow the commandments and grow up as good people, and exit the world with vast knowledge of good and evil, but they go to hell because they never accepted Christ as their true savior. If that's the way it is, God's a jerk.



and i don't know how cool this is of me to say, but i think that accepting Jesus Christ as one's saviour is overrated. i definitely have a very loose interpretation of Christianity. even though i do believe that Jesus is my saviour and that i would go to hell if not for him, i think that the mere fact that he died for our sins is, in a way, enough. it's more about being a good person that saying you're a Christian. Christ gave his life to save us, whether we say we're Christians or not, but we still have to be good people. we need to love others, and when we make mistakes we need to apologise [or at least try not to make those mistakes in the future]. i once had a friend who's grandmother died, and she was not a Christian. as far as i know, she was a good person in her life. i cannot imagine or believe in a God who would not let her into heaven.



technicolor222 said:


> Reguardless, being a furry in and of itself is not a sin, but there are some things in the furry fandom that can be sinful. It's like how killing ins't a sin, but if it's murder and not for the defense of your country etc. it is.



but yeah, i agree that being a furry is not a sin. and even though some things in the fandom are sins, that doesn't mean we can't get forgiveness for them.



Hyenaworks said:


> Frankly, people are to be blamed for such things.  Blaming it on religion is irrational.



and i agree with this.


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## KiloCharlie (Nov 29, 2008)

Hyenaworks said:


> Nowhere near the level of Stalin or perhaps the Communist take over of Vietnam that resulted in a 2-3 million person genocide by a secular government.
> 
> Frankly, people are to be blamed for such things.  Blaming it on religion is irrational.




i'm not blaming religion... religion can play a part in it... but it is ultimately the persons choice... (in anything)


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## Cavy (Nov 29, 2008)

The problem is that we often get caught up in religion. Its not that religion is the problem is rather the people and their twisted beliefs that they have. We fail to see the spiritual side of things. What I try to say is that we forget the most important things such as love and whatever.


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## AngellusLupus (Nov 29, 2008)

In a game i once heard the most truthful phrase of all that ever since i saw it, i keep it as a rule for reality;

"If there is evil in this world...it lurks in the hearts of men."

God is perfect and Almighty. Has created everything that exists. Don't come with evolutionary atheist theories because you need to be totally blind, deaf and senseless to not _feel _the presence of something behind the light and warmth of the sun, the refreshing touch of water when you're thirsty, the wind blowing softly in your face and the very earth that holds you in place.

However, religion is like humans; imperfect. And the followers of the existent predominant religions will _always_ distort Holy Texts to their benefits, i've been in many religions(my mother's, my father's, my grandmother's...) and i've seen parts of the Holy Text being interpreted and distorted in many ways to magnify their visions and i can say...discutions between two true devots of different religions can become one of the most ferocious battles i've ever witnessed.

The bible contradicts itself often, understandable; it was written over a long period of time by many different authors that lived in defferent times and ciscustances. The Coran, muslins's holy text, features many of the people found in the bible but Moses is the one that gets more attention instead of Jesus.

Buddah was great man also and his religion has all the bases of all the others; spread his word, avoid doing bad things, and reaching for enlightment.

i have my own beliefs for none of the human religions fits my expectatives, they're just too high for any imperfect human-made conduct code. Specialy cause no human is able to follow the code they created themselves to its full extent.


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## Wulfshade (Nov 29, 2008)

Nightweaver said:


> 1. Isn't being a furry incompatible with some religions? Doesn't Christianity prohibit its members from being part of something which uplifts animals to the level of human beings? Isn't that blasphemy? This isn't intended to be offensive, I genuinely don't know. :/



Depends on which nomination we are talkign about. Many catholics, anglicans(episcopalians) or lutherans propably don't see any problem with the whole thing, but then again those churches also seem to accept the theory of evolution and are highly liberal when it comes to many other things. When it comes to the bible... yes. Humans are not animals and visa versa. Also, the book says that only donkies are allowed to talk. So if your fursona is somethign else than a donkey, you are sinning. >:| But then again, Jesus IS being called The Lamb of God and he appears as a lamb in the book of revelations. IF it IS Jesus, that is. So... go figure.

I think buddhists won't have much a problem with this thing, since many of them believe that they may have been actually living as animals somewhere in the past. Also, since buddhists are supposed to value all life, elevating animals to the same level with humans is actually a good thing.



> 2. If your religion does support furry either explicitly or implicitly, does it support the sexual aspect? I mean, are there really religions out there tolerant enough to sustain furry porn and the like? I would think that the more conservative, human-centered sects would sharply denounce this fandom, seeing it as "evil" and "blasphemous" to dare uplift "mere animals" to human intelligence.



Christianity, islam and many sects of judaism do seem to be rather sexophobic, meaning that sex is a big no-no. The early christians avoided sex like plague, until they realised that they would have to have sex, or soon there wouldn't be any more christians. According to Ye Olde Testament, zoophilia is a mortal sin and should be punished by death, and Islam has pretty much the same view. Also, you are not supposed to have any sexual thoughts about anyone unless you are married to the person, and since you can't marry a fictional character, furry porn is also a big no-no. There's an interestign passage inGenesis though: Adamn, the first man, wants a companion becouse he's lonely, and God creates a number of animals for him. Adam then names the animals, and says that none of them is suitable for him since they can not talk. After this God decides to create Eve from Adam's rib-bone. One might wonder and ask, did God originally have zoophilia in mind? Or was he thinking about a Tarzan and Cheetah -kind of setting.
Anyways, if you are a christian, I guess you can watch the porn, jerk off and then just pray for forgiveness. As far as I know, that should fix it. For a muslim, it's a bigger problem and for a jew it's a smaller one, since in judaism the damnation won't last forever.

The buddhist view seems to be, that sex is ok as long as the lust doesnt controll you. Of course, porn is just unnecessary temptation and thus should be avoided, but if you are sure that it won't move you further away from enlightenment, it's not harmful. Buddhism also doesn't have a list of moral things and immoral things; only reasonable things and unreasonable things.



> 3. If your religion doesn't support the ideas and concepts in the fandom, how can you keep the two separate? Do you see an inherent conflict between what you worship and what you do in your free time?



By picking and choosing. You can just ignore the verses that contradict with your lifestyle and live on. Heck, most believers are doing that anyway. No christian thinks that eating shrimps is a sin, and no muslim thinks that the sun dwells in a muddy pool in an oasis over the night.

Or you can find a liberal theologian that will explain to you how these verses that contradict with your lifestyle are actually just symbolic, and how it's completely ok to go against them. For example, there's a christian view according to which everyone's saved becouse Jesus came and died for the sins of the world -  INCLUDING the future sins. Or that it's enough if you simply belong to the religion... anything you do will be forgiven, becouse you have already accepted the Christ's sacrifice. (I just can't see how they have come up with such views)


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## Get-dancing (Nov 29, 2008)

Hyenaworks said:


> Nowhere near the level of Stalin or perhaps the Communist take over of Vietnam that resulted in a 2-3 million person genocide by a secular government.
> 
> Frankly, people are to be blamed for such things.  Blaming it on religion is irrational.



Exactly. Bush has had 98,000 people killed, and that was through wars. 

Wheras Stalin has TWENTY-THREE MILLION people killed. Not by war, but by horrendious genocides. Don't shoot the Ukraines, waste of bullets. Just kill all their crops and let them eat their own babies. Don't bother building a propper death-camps for the political enemies, just dump them into slave labour camps in the Antartic, they'de be lucky to last a month.



> No christian thinks that eating shrimps is a sin,



That's because the food laws where reprised in the new-testiment. After Christ was exicuted, Peter had a dream inwhich God offered him meat of rabbits, pigs, and other foods not permitted for consumption. Peter at first refused telling God that those animals where unclean. So God asked Peter "Why are you calling the creatures that I created unclean?".

And that concludes todays religion lesson class.


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## Takun (Nov 29, 2008)

AngellusLupus said:


> God is perfect and Almighty. Has created everything that exists. Don't come with evolutionary atheist theories because you need to be totally blind, deaf and senseless to not _feel _the presence of something behind the light and warmth of the sun, the refreshing touch of water when you're thirsty, the wind blowing softly in your face and the very earth that holds you in place.



That is skin cancer, you're god created it to punish you for enjoying his warm touch.  

Really, if he is so almighty how come he had to wipe out the world in a flood because his creations were doing it wrong?  



> However, religion is like humans; imperfect. And the followers of the existent predominant religions will _always_ distort Holy Texts to their benefits, i've been in many religions(my mother's, my father's, my grandmother's...) and i've seen parts of the Holy Text being interpreted and distorted in many ways to magnify their visions and i can say...discutions between two true devots of different religions can become one of the most ferocious battles i've ever witnessed.


God is Almighty, why doesn't he stop people from misinterpriting it?  Why not make everything extremely clear instead of hiding the meanings in vague passages that are easy to twist?



> The bible contradicts itself often, understandable; it was written over a long period of time by many different authors that lived in defferent times and ciscustances. The Coran, muslins's holy text, features many of the people found in the bible but Moses is the one that gets more attention instead of Jesus.



Sure would be nice if that almighty god who can make the entire universe would just come out and release a blockbuster sequel to his best seller to fix the problems.



> i have my own beliefs for none of the human religions fits my expectatives, they're just too high for any imperfect human-made conduct code. Specialy cause no human is able to follow the code they created themselves to its full extent.



At least you aren't following a human religion, I'll respect that.


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## cocla (Nov 29, 2008)

CombatRaccoon said:


> However, many conservatives belonging to western religions seem to have the belief that if it isn't white, male and straight, it's probably a demon.



This is may fave quote on here so far, and will link to something I have to say later.

Im Christian, and I have no problem/conflicts with believing what I do and being a furry.  I think of myself as religious, but not in the 'the book says this, this is true, anything else is wrong and evil' way.

That said, Im United which is probably the most liberal of the denominations.  Added to that, I dont go by what is necessarily taught by my religion as I came to terms with what I believe at a young age by thinking it over and figuring out what sounded true to me and what was 'off'.  I attribute this to being in a Catholic community while religion was still being taught in schools here, and being told I was basically going to hell cause I wasnt Catholic.  A general summary of what i believe is:

- I believe in God and Jesus, but I dont think you have to be Christian to go to heaven so long as you are a good person.  I think along the Buddist lines of 'All Paths Lead to God', with the exceptions of satanic religions.

- Humanity has botched up or changed almost everything as fits the person/situation, so I think its more than likely the same has been done to the bible.

- Evangelicals scare me.  No offense if you are a part of one of these churches, but I mean the real nut jobs and cons.  As according to most of them, since I watch anime and violent/horror movies, read fantasy books and play fantasy games, and of course porn, that I have opened the doors to dark powers and must be filled with gaggles of demons that must be exorcised (see above quote).  That along with the faith healing, 'give money to get Gods blessing', and all the rest of the insanity, ignorance, and stupidity that seems to come from them.  Not that any other denominations are free of it, evangelical sects just seem to have a much higher concentration.

- Believing in God, and thinking evolution is right are not mutually exclusive.  Everything did not just plop down as it is, and the world is not only a few thousand years old.  We, and everything, evolved and God used evolution to make us.  Just like he made the laws of physics so the universe works without imploding 

- I believe animals do have souls, just as surely as they have emotions, feelings, and thoughts (though different of course)

This is just a little summary and a lot is left out.  One thing I will say, as is a common criticism of people saying they decided what they believed while ignoring some tenants of the denomination to which they belong.  I decided on what I do and do not believe a long time ago, and I do not change my beliefs to fit my moods or situation.  That said, I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong about some things.  A good reminder to all religious people is that it was once herracy for Christians to believe the world was round or we werent the center of the universe (and revolution), we all know how that turned out.

Also, I believe religion itself is not the cause of much of the worlds suffering, its humanities nature.  If it werent religion, we would find some other reason to tear each other apart.  The problem is humanities inability to be open minded, accepting, and to just let things be.

Also, in reference to a few posts and the graphs, not all religious people are stupid, just the 'blind faithful' which are sadly a very vocal near majority.  Some of us can use our brains well


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## Wulfshade (Nov 30, 2008)

Get-dancing said:


> That's because the food laws where reprised in the new-testiment. After Christ was exicuted, Peter had a dream inwhich God offered him meat of rabbits, pigs, and other foods not permitted for consumption. Peter at first refused telling God that those animals where unclean. So God asked Peter "Why are you calling the creatures that I created unclean?".
> 
> And that concludes todays religion lesson class.



Well, I find it interesting that only food laws got reprised. Now does the same also go for clothing laws? Are we now allowed to wear clothes made from two different materials or is that still forbidden? I guess I don't even need to mention laws about sex, though I sometimes wonder if christians think that rape is a way to get yourself a bride.



> Sure would be nice if that almighty god who can make the entire universe would just come out and release a blockbuster sequel to his best seller to fix the problems.



Oh yeah? Ever heard of the Book Of Mormon?


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## Wulfshade (Nov 30, 2008)

[empteh. Remove!]


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## Iido The Eevee (Nov 30, 2008)

Well I'm a Christian furry, and I'm just fine with it.

Besides, I'm not even an Anthro, I am a feral Eevee. I'm not "on the level" of humans at all.

Me and anthro don't mix.


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## kumakaze (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm a Christian fur. That being said, I'm fairly liberal for a Christian, as (I think) being a furry requires. I don't see it as bringing animals to the level of humans, exactly, because I don't really consider anthros to be smart animals, so much as people with animal traits :/ More specifically, I consider anthros more human than animal, and thusly, anthropomorphism is adding to a human, not raising an animal up to the level of humanity.

Also, of course Christianity doesn't support "yiff" and such as that, but it doesn't say, "anything that has to do with sex is bad". In fact, in the bible, sex is GREAT. Something people should have and enjoy! The reason why people think the bible considers sex bad is because, in the bible, you don't go around screwing everybody- you find the person you love, marry them, and only enjoy the delights of sex with that chosen person. That's getting a smidge off-topic, so I won't go into it any further.

As far as keeping it seperate... well, I don't really think I do that, but I don't see it as a problem. I don't have a problem with going to an online "furry church" on Wednesdays, or telling someone at my "real" church that I'm a furry. Why would I? Most people here don't know what a furry was, and even if they did, so what? I'll explain that I'm not in it for the sexual aspect, and they can believe me or not. I'm not really one to care about the judgements of others- the only judgement I care about is the judgment of my Father in Heaven.


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## KayannSheridan (Nov 30, 2008)

I am wiccan. And as far as I know, any sexual intercorse or whatnot is fine as long as it's with two of age consenting individuals. As for the whole "lifting animals" or whatever, it is a nature based religion. So i doubt being a furry and a wiccan would have much of a clash. Thats just me.

Also, if any wiccans would like to comment on this, please do.


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## Lister22 (Nov 30, 2008)

to mock some lines from a southpark episode


my name is lain... im 21 years old and im a furry... and if im somehow made from god... then i figure... god must be a little furry himself

to be serious
every one has what works for them... i believe it it makes you happy... moraly ritious and a better person... then more power to you.. what ever your religion may be


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## Get-dancing (Nov 30, 2008)

Wulfshade said:


> Well, I find it interesting that only food laws got reprised. Now does the same also go for clothing laws? Are we now allowed to wear clothes made from two different materials or is that still forbidden? I guess I don't even need to mention laws about sex, though I sometimes wonder if christians think that rape is a way to get yourself a bride.



Because most of the rules Leviticus where resprised by Christ anyway, out of a good 500 laws he said that only 2 of them are important and the word of God, the rest are just morals and beliefs from circa 3000BC Israel. So really, they only apply to Jews. Thats why Jews are alot stricter than Christians on many religious aspects.



> Sure would be nice if that almighty god who can make the entire universe would just come out and release a blockbuster sequel to his best seller to fix the problems.



He did, and his name was Jesus.


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## Wulfshade (Dec 1, 2008)

> Because most of the rules Leviticus where resprised by Christ anyway, out of a good 500 laws he said that only 2 of them are important and the word of God, the rest are just morals and beliefs from circa 3000BC Israel. So really, they only apply to Jews. Thats why Jews are alot stricter than Christians on many religious aspects.



Which is propably one of the main reasons - if not THE main reason -  why christianity is more popular than judaism, and why Paul's interpretation of the faith won the competition. Most people prefer to keep their foreskins, you know.


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## Runeaddyste (Dec 1, 2008)

1: I don't know
2: wouldn't buddism be tolerant of it?
3: No way in hell!


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## AngellusLupus (Dec 1, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> That is skin cancer, you're god created it to punish you for enjoying his warm touch.
> 
> Really, if he is so almighty how come he had to wipe out the world in a flood because his creations were doing it wrong?


Small detail...the Sun has lots of distinct and powerful energies. One of them, ultraviolet rays, causes the skin cancer...knowing this, what God created? Something called Ozon Layer that was intended to be our shield against this dangerous radiation...what humanity did with the shield created for them? Opened a wide hole...no surprize we have skin cancer ^^ Humans have the power to destroy the balance God creates...because such is the way of God...gives humans means to fight adversities so we can learn from it and grow, but if humans don't value what was given to them...they suffer consequences of their own acts.
God never punishes...God only allow us to choose and face the consequences of our choices, if we choose wisely we'll get rewards that God can grant, if we choose poorly we loose right to these rewards. Law of action and reaction. You can't expect God to transform an iron wall into feathers just because you ran head on against it knowing that it would hurt...X3

Humans have something called...uhh..._Freewill_...God granted this gift to humans and can't control their creations otherwise it would be like puppets, and humans weren't created for that.




Takumi_L said:


> God is Almighty, why doesn't he stop people from misinterpriting it? Why not make everything extremely clear instead of hiding the meanings in vague passages that are easy to twist?


God simply _can't _interfere. God can only do as much as point people to the right path IF truly desired. As said previously, the bible wasn't written by God, it was written...by humans, and so it is imperfect. What is made by the imperfect, imperfect shall forever be. As much as the ones who did it did inspired by God, how can anyone imperfect hope to get the full meaning of something perfect? And as selfish as the mind of humans is, they _will _distort the little they understand to fit their own petty desires.
Even so the bible _is _one instrument that can inspire faith.




Takumi_L said:


> Sure would be nice if that almighty god who can make the entire universe would just come out and release a blockbuster sequel to his best seller to fix the problems.


God wants people to have _Faith._ Faith is what moves in the right direction. If you saw a lightning bolt crashing down from heaven and reducing a building to ashes as a thunderous voice filled the skies ordering you to not commit crimes, you wouldn't stop comiting crimes because you have faith...you would stop commiting crimes because you have _fear._




Takumi_L said:


> At least you aren't following a human religion, I'll respect that.


Yeah...No human religion can trully comprehend what God really wants, in my opinion the path to the light must be seek by using the two greatest gifts God granted; freedom and faith. Therefore i simply don't agree with some Churches policity of 'converting others' imposing something to someone else and saying "This is the right path! Follow it! Follow it now!!". This is just...wrong.

Long...too long i guess...but explaining about god sure isn't a two lines work...


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## jagdwolf (Dec 1, 2008)

AngellusLupus said:


> Long...too long i guess...but explaining about god sure isn't a two lines work...


 

but actually it is.

Line one:  god is omnipotent and all loving

Line two:  god allows children to suffer horrible lives and deaths.



Sorry, free will or not thats not a god I want to follow,embrace or even want anywhere near my pups.  I don't know why anyone would.


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## Takun (Dec 1, 2008)

AngellusLupus said:


> God wants people to have _Faith._ Faith is what moves in the right direction. If you saw a lightning bolt crashing down from heaven and reducing a building to ashes as a thunderous voice filled the skies ordering you to not commit crimes, you wouldn't stop comiting crimes because you have faith...you would stop commiting crimes because you have _fear._


waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.

Is the threat of eternal damnation _not _fear?  



jagdwolf said:


> but actually it is.
> 
> Line one:  god is omnipotent and all loving
> 
> ...




Yeah.  I want to know why he can't interfere and fix stuff(anymore, I mean he flooded the world right?) but he is still omnipotent and all powerful?


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## jagdwolf (Dec 1, 2008)

The bible is the word of god, written by man, edited by kings and governments.


Um.....am I missing something in that statement concerning the word of god?

Studies the Kabalion, but still believes were just a failed alien experiment or prision gone wrong or forgotten about.


would explain so many things.  so so so many things


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## AngellusLupus (Dec 1, 2008)

jagdwolf said:


> but actually it is.
> 
> Line one:  god is omnipotent and all loving
> 
> ...


Children are no exception from the law of action and reaction, but they pay for the mistakes of their parents and other people who should protect them.
Meaning; if you're poor and starving, by all means, don't have a kid =P Not to worry tho...i've heard that children have free passes to heaven. :3

Saying things such as; "God doesn't make miracles for me, i won't believe in God!" is the same as saying "You don't give me anything! i'm not gonna be your friend!" to some person that only wanted to to be your friend.



Takumi_L said:


> waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.
> 
> Is the threat of eternal damnation _not _fear?
> 
> ...


...i don't believe Hell exists, the very Holy Text says; "the rewards paid by the sin is death" not "Eternal damnation" i told you...i follow my own belief. Have you ever heard of someone who believes in heaven, but not in hell? That's me.

God will not interfere directly(aka a mighty hand from the sky will come pick you if you're drowning in a flood) but God will help you indirectly (that fireman in the helicopter throwing you a rope)
Why don't he interfere directly? Because large scale miracles instead of instigating faith will diminish it.


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## jagdwolf (Dec 1, 2008)

AngellusLupus said:


> Not to worry tho...i've heard that children have free passes to heaven. :3
> 
> 
> sorry that still does not justify the abuse.  I got the hell beat out of me all the time by an abusive mother.  I suffered cuts, bruises and lost a lot of blood because of her.  Where was my free pass?
> ...


 
ah so instead of saving his children, and loving them, he would rather have them suffer and believe than live and know.

hum  interesting.....I however respect your belief.  I will not try and sway you, just don't agree.


PS:  get a copy of some of the original text of the bible if you can, find a good translator of languages and you will see how man has edited the bible.  From the very first lines in Genesis.


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## Takun (Dec 1, 2008)

AngellusLupus said:


> ...i don't believe Hell exists, the very Holy Text says; "the rewards paid by the sin is death" not "Eternal damnation" i told you...i follow my own belief. Have you ever heard of someone who believes in heaven, but not in hell? That's me.



....so you either go to heaven or die?  Heaven sounds dull and boring, lacking the pain and hard times that make the good times worth it.



> God will not interfere directly(aka a mighty hand from the sky will come pick you if you're drowning in a flood) but God will help you indirectly (that fireman in the helicopter throwing you a rope)
> Why don't he interfere directly? Because large scale miracles instead of instigating faith will diminish it.



Diminish what?  If god performed huge miracles that people new were from a higher being would you not have more believers?...or are is there the fear people would find out he isn't all powerful...hmmmm.  Would more people hate him for not fixing everything....bah


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## AngellusLupus (Dec 1, 2008)

jagdwolf said:


> ah so instead of saving his children, and loving them, he would rather have them suffer and believe than live and know.
> 
> hum  interesting.....I however respect your belief.  I will not try and sway you, just don't agree.
> 
> ...


i suffered too. Though my father was the one to cause all the torment. My mother though was the one to always protected us and held the heavier burdens. The way i was risen also made me see God as a gentle mother instead of a Tyrant father as many religions portray.

Instead of disbelieving God cause of my suffering, it just made my spiritual side stronger. The way i see is that...humans don't learn nothing from getting things easy. God allow the human race to suffer so that we learn how to apreciate the time where we don't suffer, how precious are the good things...they are all taken for granted when we don't know what would happen if we didn't have them.

See the exemple of the bible itself; Adam and Eve had the paradize, they were innocent free from any desease and prejudice, they were young and wouldn't suffer pain or need, they could enjoy all that is good without never getting hurt, becoming old or dying. They were greedy though and wanted the single thing they couldn't have even possessing more than anyone else ever had, the result is the world we have today.
Each human should pass by the taste of need, so they don't take the blessings for granted. In other words, the human race had their chance of eternal happyness and chosen the worng path, the human race pays until today for the original sin(according to the bible)

The ones who prevail over the adversity will earn their rewards in the end. And for the ones who do it, they will know that they aren't there because of Any god's free and easy mercy and benevolence, they will be able to pat their chests in pride and say; "I DID IT! I DESERVE THIS!"



Takumi_L said:


> ....so you either go to heaven or die? Heaven sounds dull and boring, lacking the pain and hard times that make the good times worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> Diminish what? If god performed huge miracles that people new were from a higher being would you not have more believers?...or are is there the fear people would find out he isn't all powerful...hmmmm. Would more people hate him for not fixing everything....bah


Heaven isn't dull and nowhere close to boring. The memory of all hard you had in here will remain making you value what you'll get even more. Heaven isn't only a place of peace and flowers like people portray. Heaven is the realization of your wishes, is the place where you get what you really want...i do believe that in heaven internet will still exist XD

Hnnn...God made active miracles of big proportions like food coming down from heaven, staffs hitting a rock in the desert and making a river come out of it and people still turned their backs on God. Such is the way of Mankind ^^"


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## Nylak (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm largely Buddhist (largely because my lifestyle doesn't allow me to live up to all of the teachings, so I won't be reaching Enlightenment in this lifetime, anyway), and I've yet to find a true conflict with the furry lifestyle...or at least with how I live it.   But yes, I can see it having some disagreements with how some other furries handle the fandom (the reliance on sexuality and other manifestations of an affinity for physical ties with the body, or becoming a bit too involved with the animal aspects of one's fursona, etc).

But in moderation, and handled as a hobby rather than a lifestyle, I don't see a problem.


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## ironwolf85 (Dec 3, 2008)

Found out their's a furry Saint too.... St. Christopher
He started as a dumb and nearly feral bandit, and over the course of the story he gets more human.
anyone else read the Chronicles of Narnia (not the movies)... I really saw the difference between Animals and people....(I found out later Aslan was a Jesus allegory)

Free Will... If you can overcome your base instincts, and think, you are considered Human.


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## Tzolkin (Dec 4, 2008)

I practice a bizarre belief system of my own design, dubbed Pandoranism, which focuses on interconnecting points in multiple doctrines rather than a specific one. So far I've not found much of a conflict with furry. It's fury which gives me the most trouble.

Of course, on most counts I'm only mildly furry. A 'recreational' furry, if that makes sense.


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## jagdwolf (Dec 4, 2008)

Tzolkin said:


> Of course, on most counts I'm only mildly furry. A 'recreational' furry, if that makes sense.


 

is that like kinda having sex?  


***gives you a big wolfie grin.............come to the furry side


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## Unstupefed (Dec 4, 2008)

all I can say is . . . . . 

*just be a good person and live your life while following God's rules. no need to go over the top with your faith.* 

and I'm a Christian fur btw


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## pheonix (Dec 4, 2008)

I missed all the debating. Well its gotta start back up again eventually. *sits and waits*


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## MayDay (Dec 4, 2008)

No...I don't think God will hunt you down for being furry.
We've got people like osama and terrorists running free in 
this world, I think furries should HONESTLY be the last thing God
have in mind. 

Feel better?


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## nachoboy (Dec 5, 2008)

MayDay said:


> No...I don't think God will hunt you down for being furry.
> We've got people like osama and terrorists running free in
> this world, I think furries should HONESTLY be the last thing God
> have in mind.
> ...



well, in James, it says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." [James 2:10]. one sin is, as far as i can tell, equal to all other sins. if being a furry is a sin, then it's just as bad as whatever other sins people like osama and terrorists do. i just don't think that being a furry is, in itself, a sin.


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## KitsuneKit (Dec 5, 2008)

Well... allow me to explain my view on religion...
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1687364/

You see, I'm not really worried about things because my religion is something I picked so therefore I can make up the rules for it as I go.


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## Rathanael (Dec 5, 2008)

Hmmm... Personally a rather devout Roman Catholic (Heck, I even serve as a sacristan), friend to someone who's a member of Jehovah's Witness, and once knew someone who's Buddhist. Not one of them had a problem with me being furry. (Either that, or people I know are just extremely tolerant)

That aside, The media just has a way with showing the extremely distorted sides of anything, as I can safely assume most of you have known, and this distorted image is what the public often believes. I've been raised Christian, and am still up to know, and I know there's nothing in our creed that says (or implies) "Thou shalt not be furry". Yeah, I'm a halfway liberal, halfway conservative Christan.


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## Kovu217 (Aug 8, 2011)

Okay, this argument is getting a little ridiculous; furry is a fandom like any other. Being a fan of anthropormorphic animals shouldn't have anything to do with what religion you belong to. Now, if you're the 'other' kind of furry, that's where things get complicated. But if you're just your average furry, of course the two are compatible! I'm an Cajun Catholic and a furry, and proud of both!


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## Commie Bat (Aug 8, 2011)

Kovu217 said:


> Okay, this argument is getting a little ridiculous; furry is a fandom like any other. Being a fan of anthropormorphic animals shouldn't have anything to do with what religion you belong to. Now, if you're the 'other' kind of furry, that's where things get complicated. But if you're just your average furry, of course the two are compatible! I'm an Cajun Catholic and a furry, and proud of both!



Nice necro my friend


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