# Thurough Story Critique needed- Story not posted publicly



## sanura_mosi (Aug 24, 2009)

_Mods can feel free to move this or let me know where to post if this is in the wrong place (or delete it). But I want to say i realize there is a "critique" thread- and i'm hoping to capture in depth help, and i have the feeling i won't get it in the HUGE pile that is the critique thread. thanks._

*First*- this story isn't completed yet, i need someone willing to read it over with new eyes and give me a thurough critique of everything i've written so far.

*Second*- this story isn't posted online. I hope to try the publishing route with this, so i won't be posting this online. I can email it to the critiquer in .doc format or even .pdf. I need someone who can keep a secret and won't be posting this story anywhere else or sharing it with other people.

That said, here's a little description:

Setting- "Medieval" times, relatively so. The setting is meant to be in the villages of that time, with my own adjustments to the setting. Mainly the setting type refers to technology level and some cultural details. A large part of the setting is an orphanage run by the Brothers of the setting's religion, a widespread nature religion (this was chosen to compliment the Anthros in the storyline much better as well as the early time setting and the relative remoteness of the village within a well forested area)
    The story is meant to personify the song "music of the night" from phantom of the opera. (link to version i'm refering too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHAauiJwwmU )
    Ultimately it might turn out to be an adult story (I'm feeling otu the story as i go and i haven't decided what it warrents yet), but is not adult yet.

    The main characters include a cape fox you follow from a child in an orphanage to a singing teacher, and a male gypsy (gypsies in this setting are racially mongooses, but similar in culture to the gypsies of our past). The story is set around singing and the encounters between the two main characters and how they affect each other's lives. The story is much more complicated than this, but i think I've gotten a bit of the essence.

    The story is now 22 pages long, and no where near the middle of the plot. I desire as detailed of a critique as possible on my plot, characters, the ability of the story to draw you in, the texture and fullness of the story itself, and much more. I've been reading a lot of Stephen King's Dark Tower series and I'm trying to take a few lessons from his way of writing a story with so much subtle texture and flavor- and a deep ability to draw you into the storyline. I don't desire to eloquently ramble on tangents as he sometimes does, so if i ramble in the story, please do point it out.
    Alternately, I find I rush my stories and plots as i get into the passion of the moment, I would like critiquing on the pacing and how its coming along as it is.​XD As you can see I think i need a professional editor, but I'll take as close as i can get! If anyone is up to the challenge, PLEASE post here.

If anyone has someone or someplace to point me to where I am very apt to get this feedback and critiquing, I'm very open to it as well.

Thanks alot!


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## Poetigress (Aug 24, 2009)

sanura_mosi said:


> The story is now 22 pages long, and no where near the middle of the plot. I desire as detailed of a critique as possible on my plot, characters, the ability of the story to draw you in, the texture and fullness of the story itself, and much more.



It's going to be difficult for someone to give that level and scope of critique on a partial draft. They'd be able to comment on small-scale aspects of your writing style and perhaps on the first impressions the characters make, but not as much on the structure, pacing, plot, character growth and development, or similar large-scale issues. I know I'd prefer to be able to see the entire arc of the story and how things play out.

My advice is, finish the draft first, and then look for critique.

*Edited to add:* Just saw your closed thread in the other forum -- when you said a crit of the first 5 pages "won't be nearly enough, considering the different moods and settings in the whole 22- what may apply to the first 5 probably won't help me with the rest," that's exactly my point. Who knows, you might start writing page 25 and realize something that makes you have to throw out everything else you've written to that point and rework it entirely.  So whether the critiquer is looking at five pages or 22, you're still asking people to critique something that you don't have a clear vision of yourself yet, because it isn't all down on paper from start to finish.


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## GraemeLion (Aug 24, 2009)

Please don't ask us to critique unfinished, much less unedited work.


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 25, 2009)

So then, what are you asking for?  Do you need to see how well you do different moods, are you looking for some proofreading, general commentary on your style, what?  I'm not really certain what you'd like as a critique.


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## sanura_mosi (Aug 26, 2009)

Poetigress said:


> It's going to be difficult for someone to give that level and scope of critique on a partial draft. They'd be able to comment on small-scale aspects of your writing style and perhaps on the first impressions the characters make, but not as much on the structure, pacing, plot, character growth and development, or similar large-scale issues. I know I'd prefer to be able to see the entire arc of the story and how things play out.
> 
> My advice is, finish the draft first, and then look for critique.
> 
> *Edited to add:* Just saw your closed thread in the other forum -- when you said a crit of the first 5 pages "won't be nearly enough, considering the different moods and settings in the whole 22- what may apply to the first 5 probably won't help me with the rest," that's exactly my point. Who knows, you might start writing page 25 and realize something that makes you have to throw out everything else you've written to that point and rework it entirely.  So whether the critiquer is looking at five pages or 22, you're still asking people to critique something that you don't have a clear vision of yourself yet, because it isn't all down on paper from start to finish.




I didn't realize that apparently no one asks for a critique while they're developing the story. That I find surprising.

I'm also a bit offended- i'll be honest- that if my story isn't done, no one's willing give a fellow writer support, because honestly some of this implies that.

Now I also realize that I may come off offensive or abbrasive, I'm sorry but i've had a harrowing day, but I'd rather deal with this now than wait a few days.

I just want someone to look it over, now ironically i figured if i was more specific in the things i was looking for, I was more likely to get the support. I was wrong. There are things i'm looking to see if i'm improving on, and the plot and the character development through the entirety of the story isn't one of them. I was trying to get someone with fresh eyes to look it over and tell me if i'm on the right track, if its shaping up to be an interesting story- and yes if my writing style has improved.

I said thurough critique because I'm sick and tired of "Its good", or "I like it", or some other such comment that does my writing skills no good at all. I wanted to make sure i wasn't asking for someone to read it over for the pleasure of it, to see if anyone likes it. I need someone who's serious about giving me feedback.


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## sanura_mosi (Aug 26, 2009)

redcard said:


> Please don't ask us to critique unfinished, much less unedited work.



I'm sorry that you and the mysterious others in "us" aren't willing to support a fellow writer by reading over something they've been working on. I have to say, I'd rather not offend anyone, but this statement sounds very elitest.

And I'm also offended that you think it hasn't been edited. I'm curious to know why you think i've just written 22 pages and tried to thunk it on a writing board for someone else to edit.

Fyi: I edit through it every time i go back to writing it, which has been often in the past year or so.


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## sanura_mosi (Aug 26, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> So then, what are you asking for?  Do you need to see how well you do different moods, are you looking for some proofreading, general commentary on your style, what?  I'm not really certain what you'd like as a critique.



*sighs* I'm not offended by your questions, because you've so far been rather polite with me.

But i will say this is all very frustrating. If i ask for someone to look over it i get "its good, i like it", if i ask for a thurough critique i get "well i can give you full plot development critique if its not finished". The people who've commented are very literal, and its frustrating.

To clarify, like i replied to Poetigress, I just want someone to give me SERIOUS feedback on my story so far. I have very few people close to me who are willing to read it unfinished, or are really qualified to give me a thurough critique- or aren't just too busy to get to it. I want someone to give me as much about what they think of it so far as i can possibly get. Now I mentioned i need more than 5 pages becuz there are so far two plot developments i've written, and i'd like feedback on how i transitioned between them and how the story is flowing. I need feedback on my writing style, and to make sure i'm not rushing my plot like i feel i do with my other stories. So i can't have just 5 pages of feedback, it won't do me any good because quite frankly i'm happy with the first 5 pages, and i doubt there will be enough there for you to comment on in any compacity.

I really hope that answers your questions, if not :/ i'm not sure how to explain it further.


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## GraemeLion (Aug 26, 2009)

sanura_mosi said:


> I'm sorry that you and the mysterious others in "us" aren't willing to support a fellow writer by reading over something they've been working on. I have to say, I'd rather not offend anyone, but this statement sounds very elitest.
> 
> And I'm also offended that you think it hasn't been edited. I'm curious to know why you think i've just written 22 pages and tried to thunk it on a writing board for someone else to edit.
> 
> Fyi: I edit through it every time i go back to writing it, which has been often in the past year or so.



Because you right there have told me all I need to know.  Elitist?  No.  But if you don't know where it's going, you can't really have edited it too much.

Editors are not used when you're writing.  They're to be used when you've WRITTEN.  You've not even gotten a first draft done, much less rewritten, and you want people to comment on it?  Why?  What good would editing this do if you decide later on to write something that would make you take it all out on a rewrite?

Finish your work.  Post it.  Then we'll critique it throughly.  But you're asking us to spend energy and time on something that you've not even finished.

And you have the gall to call ME elitist?


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 26, 2009)

Hey Redcard: if you want to start a fight, do it over PMs or something.  Otherwise, leave it alone, and quit provoking people.



> If i ask for someone to look over it i get "its good, i like it", if i ask for a thurough critique i get "well i can give you full plot development critique if its not finished".


The reason is that when I and many others here think 'thorough critique', we think that means you'd like a critique of every aspect of the story.  That includes things like plot, character development, etc., which is why we were all a little curious why you wanted a 'thorough critique' of something that wasn't finished yet.
So let me get this straight: what you're really asking is, is the writing good quality, does the plot feel rushed so far, and how did you do on the transition between existing parts.
Tell you what: if no one else responds by Saturday, send me the whole thing and I'll do this for you.  It'll be my way of apologizing for the hassle.  Sound good?


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## GraemeLion (Aug 26, 2009)

My apologies.  My intention was not to start a fight, just to point forward that it's not being elitist to expect something completed prior to doing a complete analysis.


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## sanura_mosi (Aug 27, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> Hey Redcard: if you want to start a fight, do it over PMs or something.  Otherwise, leave it alone, and quit provoking people.
> 
> 
> The reason is that when I and many others here think 'thorough critique', we think that means you'd like a critique of every aspect of the story.  That includes things like plot, character development, etc., which is why we were all a little curious why you wanted a 'thorough critique' of something that wasn't finished yet.
> ...



Yes, I think we've communicated successfully. I have to be honest, (and not because of you personally) when i do finish something (and i have finished a short story related to the story i want looked over), I won't be posting it here. I really don't like that this is an informal site, to help writer's improve, get feedback etc, and for some reason some people think its a professional forum where only the highest of rules apply. I'm confused and quite honestly upset by that. I've been on a professional forum and i chose to leave becuz there were WAY too many rules for the little teeny bit of feedback i would get on anything. I came to FA becuz its much more open, and i get a lot more feedback. It upsets me that people on here can act the way they are.

I'm more than happy to be corrected, but most of the people on here haven't published anything yet, and aren't a paid editor. I think that means we should support each other and not decide that only the highest caliber of things (something done, already edited by a mysterious other person and rewritten to make it a second draft before it can be looked at on here). For the record I realize some people prefer only to read a story when its done (hell my husband is like that), but its a bit different when another writer is looking it over for me, I don't mind being told they prefer to read things that are finished, but the other comments weren't worded along those lines.

I really truly hope i'm wrong, and this is only a couple people who i've attracted personally, because i really could use a writer support network to help me out, and I really don't want to make enemies out of anyone.

Yes, your offer sounds great, but i want to make sure you aren't grudgingly doing it, i don't want to force my story on anyone. I'm willing to bet I won't have any other offers by Saturday, but I'll wait and send it along to you then- could i get your email and which format would you prefer?


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## Poetigress (Aug 27, 2009)

For the record, since I was one of those couple people participating in this thread, I'm not saying that something needs to be professional quality or of the 'highest caliber' before it's put up for critique. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, it's unwise (for reasons I already mentioned) to expect truly helpful critique on a draft that doesn't have a beginning, middle, and end.  As a side note, I wouldn't call this forum or those who participate here elitist, but I do think some of us (myself included) have become a little jaded because of all the people who have big writing plans that never actually make it onto paper, and this type of situation plays into that cynicism. Even though it's kind of irrational to feel this way, a critiquer wants to feel helpful, wants to feel that their feedback has helped in some way to shape the finished story (even if the critique only shows the writer where they don't want to take the story!), and it's hard to feel that way if you spend hours writing a crit for something the author then loses interest in and abandons entirely. It's absolutely the writer's right to do that, of course -- a writer has no obligation to use any bit of a critique -- but, as I said, it's irrational, so there you are.

At any rate, it sounds as if you're not looking for nearly as detailed or wide-ranging a critique as we all assumed based on your first post, so I hope we can chalk this up to miscommunication. After all, some of us around here are actually kinda helpful and nice. Some of us. At least on good days.


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## M. LeRenard (Aug 27, 2009)

> I think that means we should support each other and not decide that only the highest caliber of things (something done, already edited by a mysterious other person and rewritten to make it a second draft before it can be looked at on here).


The general trend is that people come on here with half of a typo-ridden rough draft and ask for critique and opinions.  And we all think, what do you do with that?  When something is that bad, you're not asking for critique: you're asking for someone else to write your story for you.  It'd be like if an artist drew a sketchy half of a circle and then posted a thread asking for critique on their picture of a sailboat.
So I hope you can forgive that we need more clarification for these kinds of things.
The problem, of course (and this has been a problem for a while) is that some folks on this forum seem to take it on themselves to become crusaders of writing justice, and so we get a lot of outbursts.  If you look hard enough, you can find a thread in which we have a big long discussion about this very thing, wherein many people are berated and probably nothing is accomplished.  But that seems to be the culture here; lots of newbies who come in with the same old questions and making the same old mistakes, and lots of veterans who get pissed off by it and say so.  I try to keep things civil, but we're not really moderated, so it's not easy.
But don't let the culture scare you off.  You can actually get some good help here.


> could i get your email and which format would you prefer?


As I said in the other thread, my e-mail is monsieurlerenard[at]gmail.com.  Format doesn't really matter: I use OpenOffice, which can load any format under the sun.


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