# If you ever had children/do have children, would you....



## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Be emotionally supportive of them if they wanted a sex change when they grew up? Or became gay or lesbian?


In all honesty, I would. Simple as that, I'd still be supportive of their decisions and sexuality wouldn't be an issue with me.


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## Lunar (Aug 30, 2011)

I wouldn't care, them becoming gay or lesbian's fine with me.  But I'm not paying for shit if they get the surgery.  That's their dice, their expense.


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## Gavrill (Aug 30, 2011)

yes, i would support them fully and not be a dick to my kids

this isn't much of a question, imo


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## Qoph (Aug 30, 2011)

This is a pretty loaded question... especially considering where you're posting it.


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## Gavrill (Aug 30, 2011)

a furry forum?

j/k FAF is just /b/ with animal avatars


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Skift said:


> a furry forum?
> 
> j/k FAF is just /b/ with animal avatars



You forget that some parents disown their kids.


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## Iudicium_86 (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm gay, so it wouldn't be an issue.


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## Cain (Aug 30, 2011)

Gay/Lesbian, that'd be fine, as I'm gay myself.

The sex change, though...

Meeeeeeeh.

I'd let my significant other talk about that one >_>


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## Lunar (Aug 30, 2011)

I kind of wanna see what all this out-of-the-closet stuff is gonna do with future kids and how they turn out.
Not saying anything bad, just pure curiosity.


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

I would have no problem with it, period. 



lunar_helix said:


> I wouldn't care, them becoming gay or lesbian's fine with me.  *But I'm not paying for shit if they get the surgery.  That's their dice, their expense.*


It's very difficult to get a legal gender reassignment surgery in  first world countries unless you've had years and years--decades  really--of counseling. They would be well into adulthood before they had  the surgery. That likely wouldn't be an issue you faced.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> I would have no problem with it, period.
> 
> 
> It's very difficult to get a legal gender reassignment surgery in  first world countries unless you've had years and years--decades  really--of counseling. They would be well into adulthood before they had  the surgery. That likely wouldn't be an issue you faced.



Not if you go private.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

lunar_helix said:


> I kind of wanna see what all this out-of-the-closet stuff is gonna do with future kids and how they turn out.
> Not saying anything bad, just pure curiosity.



Technically I'm in the closet about being Bisexual. Only my half sister and best friend know. Everyone else doesn't.


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Not if you go private.


Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean by private. Do you mean privately funded? If so, almost all of them are privately funded anyway. Insurance basically never covers it, I don't imagine there are many national healthcare programs that will either. What I'm talking about is that no surgeon will do the procedure without the okay of at least one licensed psychologist (in some places several), and no psychologist is going to give the okay without years of therapy. Only main roads to get around that is to go out of the country or to get it done in someone's basement basically. Unless it's different over there across the pond.

Basically every adult transgender I've met is either waiting for the okay from their therapist or nickel-and-diming their way to be able to pay for it at all, often both. It's just not something that happens a lot until later in life. Quite a few never get it at all.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean by private. Do you mean privately funded? If so, almost all of them are privately funded anyway. Insurance basically never covers it, I don't imagine there are many national healthcare programs that will either. What I'm talking about is that no surgeon will do the procedure without the okay of at least one licensed psychologist (in some places several), and no psychologist is going to give the okay without years of therapy. Only main roads to get around that is to go out of the country or to get it done in someone's basement basically. Unless it's different over there across the pond.
> 
> Basically every adult transgender I've met is either waiting for the okay from their therapist or nickel-and-diming their way to be able to pay for it at all, often both. Quite a few never get it at all.



*points to his location which many seem to be forgetting lately* Here we don't need health insurance, We have the NHS system covered by our taxes (which is one reason we have higher taxes) sex changes are not covered by the NHS, however a private medical facility will cover it if you have the cash. The NHS wont cover anything that isn't related to a health issue so no cosmetic surgery unless you need skin grafts or reconstructive surgery as a result of injury, birth defect or burns.


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## iTails (Aug 30, 2011)

Sexuality: Yes
Operation: Fuck no. Pay for that shit yourself.


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## Stargazer Bleu (Aug 30, 2011)

It wouldn't bother me either. I would be sportive of it.
As said above surgery would have to be paid for themselves.

As with anything else as well, as long as it doesn't break the law or anything.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

iTails said:


> Sexuality: Yes
> Operation: Fuck no. Pay for that shit yourself.



Financial support for an operation is not what I actually meant, but that is my bad I wasn't clear. I actually meant emotional support for both.


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> *points to his location which many seem to be forgetting lately* Here we don't need health insurance, We have the NHS system covered by our taxes (which is one reason we have higher taxes) sex changes are not covered by the NHS, however a private medical facility will cover it if you have the cash. The NHS wont cover anything that isn't related to a health issue so no cosmetic surgery unless you need skin grafts or reconstructive surgery as a result of injury, birth defect or burns.





Ad Hoc said:


> Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean by private.  Do you mean privately funded? If so, almost all of them are privately  funded anyway. Insurance basically never covers it, *I don't imagine  there are many national healthcare programs that will either*. What I'm  talking about is that no surgeon will do the procedure without the okay  of at least one licensed psychologist (in some places several), and no  psychologist is going to give the okay without years of therapy. Only  main roads to get around that is to go out of the country or to get it  done in someone's basement basically. *Unless it's different over there  across the pond.*


I acknowledged that. 

That doesn't really change anything. They're still almost always privately funded--insurance or national healthcare or not--and can really only be obtained after years and years of therapy because even if you have the cash, no first-world doc is going to risk the medical malpractice suit for doing the surgery on someone who hasn't had all that therapy. It's almost always done it adulthood, or not at all due to time/cost issues.


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## Lunar (Aug 30, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Financial support for an operation is not what I actually meant, but that is my bad I wasn't clear. I actually meant emotional support for both.


I'd probably be neutral about what I say.  I don't really support those surgeries myself, but whatever.  If the kid wants to take a risk that big, and waste that much money on changing something that doesn't have to be changed, then go for it, just don't bother me with it.


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

lunar_helix said:


> I'd probably be neutral about what I say.  I don't really support those surgeries myself, but whatever.  If the kid wants to take a risk that big, and waste that much money on changing something that doesn't have to be changed, then go for it, just don't bother me with it.


Surgery isn't really the end-all of being transgender . . . Quite a lot of them never get the surgery, either because of the time/cos issues, or because--like you said--it's very dangerous. Some don't even feel it'd be worth it even without all of that, because there's no way to make a perfect reconstruction. (This is an especially common sentiment among ftms. The surgery's a little less logistically problematic for mtfs.) Most stop at chest surgery, if they even have that.

How would you feel about it other than the surgery? Would you respect it if they wanted you to call them by a different name, a different pronoun? I'm not being hostile, just curious. People seem to always jump straight to genital surgery on this issue, when it's really only on the extreme end of it.


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## Lunar (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> Surgery isn't really the end-all of being transgender . . . Quite a lot of them never get the surgery, either because of the time/cos issues, or because--like you said--it's very dangerous. Some don't even feel it'd be worth it even without all of that, because there's no way to make a perfect reconstruction. (This is an especially common sentiment among ftms. The surgery's a little less logistically problematic for mtfs.) Most stop at chest surgery, if they even have that.
> 
> How would you feel about it other than the surgery? Would you respect it if they wanted you to call them by a different name, a different pronoun? I'm not being hostile, just curious. People seem to always jump straight to genital surgery on this issue, when it's really only on the extreme end of it.


I probably wouldn't care.  It would seem silly to me, but I'd just humor them and do it.  No sense making it into a _bigger_ deal.


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## Aetius (Aug 30, 2011)

As long as they are:
A. Respectful and hard working members of society
B. Have good ethics

I don't really care what they would be attracted to. But for a sex change, I would be reluctant but still supportive.


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## moriko (Aug 30, 2011)

Some interesting responses here when compared to responses about the sexuality support a lot of people received from their parents. Times change, opinions change.

As with anything that does not harm others or my kid (If I have one), I'd be supportive in their decision, regardless of whether it's just sexual orientation, or sex change. If I could, I'd help them financially with therapy and eventual surgeries if it goes that far. At the very least I'd help them learn how to save money towards them even if I myself can't come up with the money. It would be no different than my helping them save for college, though of course funds for that come first.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> I acknowledged that.
> 
> That doesn't really change anything. They're still almost always privately funded--insurance or national healthcare or not--and can really only be obtained after years and years of therapy because even if you have the cash, no first-world doc is going to risk the medical malpractice suit for doing the surgery on someone who hasn't had all that therapy. It's almost always done it adulthood, or not at all due to time/cost issues.



Why are you repeating what you said despite the fact I just told you it's different here?


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Why are you repeating what you said despite the fact I just told you it's different here?


First I was pointing out that I had acknowledged that you lived elsewhere. Then I reiterated my point because you hadn't conceded to it or really addressed it at all. My original claim was that most SRS (sexual reconstruction surgery) occurs later in life due to therapy needs. You said, "Unless it's private." I explained that it's almost always privately funded anyway, health insurance or national health care aside, and takes years and years of therapy whether it's privately funded or not, because no doc is going to risk his/her medical license doing the surgery on someone who hasn't had the counseling. You then made a claim that I hadn't acknowledged that you live elsewhere--which I had--and then explained that yes your NHS does not in fact pay for SRS, which actually supports my point but still doesn't address it directly.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Aug 30, 2011)

If my kid told me he/she was gay/lesbian, i might be a little surprised, but i would allow it, because no one can really affect his/her own sexuality. It just is.
But for the sex change i'd have a long conversation. And if he/she somehow manages to persuade me to accept it, i'd not pay for it.


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## Bliss (Aug 30, 2011)

lunar_helix said:


> But I'm not paying for shit if they get the surgery.  That's their dice, their expense.


Unless you're a man and it was your gamete and chromosome phucking 'em up. :V



Ad Hoc said:


> It's very difficult to get a legal gender reassignment surgery in  first world countries unless you've had years and years--decades  really--of counseling. They would be well into adulthood before they had  the surgery. That likely wouldn't be an issue you faced.


It's completely covered here as far as I know. Surgeries, hormones and even (MtF) epilation of beard.

And I heard getting a 'permit' takes a year or two, but the actual cue to the surgery is quite long since only a few surgeons do that kind of operations.



lunar_helix said:


> I don't really support those surgeries myself, but whatever.  If the kid wants to take a risk that big, and waste that much money on *changing something that doesn't have to be changed*, then go for it, *just don't bother me with it*.


Do you - honestly - have a say in that? What the heck is wrong with you? D:

It's not gay, so don't act silly. Your choice of words is ironic.



Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> But for the sex change i'd have a  long conversation. And if he/she somehow manages to persuade me to  accept it, i'd not pay for it.


Lucky you don't have to.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> First I was pointing out that I had acknowledged that you lived elsewhere. Then I reiterated my point because you hadn't conceded to it or really addressed it at all. My original claim was that most SRS (sexual reconstruction surgery) occurs later in life due to therapy needs. You said, "Unless it's private." I explained that it's almost always privately funded anyway, health insurance or national health care aside, and takes years and years of therapy whether it's privately funded or not, because no doc is going to risk his/her medical license doing the surgery on someone who hasn't had the counseling. You then made a claim that I hadn't acknowledged that you live elsewhere--which I had--and then explained that yes your NHS does not in fact pay for SRS, which actually supports my point but still doesn't address it directly.



To be honest I don't see why counseling is necessary, if it worked people wouldn't still want to have the operation.


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## ArielMT (Aug 30, 2011)

I would be as supportive as I would if my kid wasn't transgendered, yes.  The HRT and sex-change surgery, if it went that far, would be financially unbearable but not emotionally so.

Also, I've been wondering how close to reality this short comic-book story favorited by FA's MtFs group is.


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## Lunar (Aug 30, 2011)

Again, it wouldn't be my decision, just theirs.  And that's just my opinion.  That's what's wrong with me, is I say what I fee


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## Ben (Aug 30, 2011)

Considering this fandom is super duper progressive about gay and trans issues, I'd find it hard to believe there's more than one person who would respond otherwise to this thread. Might as well just make a general "LGBTQ issues" thread instead of just proposing a question that'll just produce a boring circle-jerk.


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## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 30, 2011)

I'd have more trouble if my child adopted the views of a homophobic if I was to have a heterosexual marriage. 

Although, it'd be a nice slap in the face if i went up to him/her and said "You ass, I dated men before your mother!"

But if they became gay/bi or got a sex change, I'd admittedly be a little concerned. I'd prefer them to be straight just so they can experience a more accepted lifestyle. If it was their definite choice of sexuality, then I wouldn't stop them however. Sex change may take some convincing.


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> To be honest I don't see why counseling is necessary, if it worked people wouldn't still want to have the operation.


Mostly it's to determine if the person truly is transgendered and not suffering from other other malady that might manifest itself with GID-like symptoms. (GID = Gender Identity Disorder.) First thing they'll do is rule out things like depression,* schizophrenia, or dissociative personality disorder (multiple personality disorder) as being the cause of the GID symptoms, as opposed to GID itself. After that it's sort of . . . eh this isn't the right way to put it, but it's sort of figuring out _how_ transgender they are, basically? Can they be happy with just changing their name and transitioning socially? Can they be happy with just hormones? A lot of transgenders never end up going "all the way" so to speak, either because of logistical issues or because they manage to find their happiness at some "earlier" point in transition. Surgery is not the end-all cure for GID. 


*Don't get me wrong here, lots of people who are transgender are also depressed, GID lends itself to a rather depressing existence. The question is whether or not the GID caused the depression, or the depression caused GID-like symptoms. It takes a bit of sorting out.


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## Azure (Aug 30, 2011)

This is a dumb question, with dumb ideas. IF I were to ever have children, I would support them fully in their sexuality no matter the investment, emotional or monetary. OP, you have some reading to do, tbh. Parents who disown their children because of religious hangups about sexuality are disgusting people, through and through, both a betrayer to basic humanity AND their supposed God filled with love. Sorry, but that's the truth. The list of providers is short, the cost is incredibly high, and even then, there is a time threshold involved in which to begin such a procedure, usually early teens, a time when parents MOST ignore their children, and shrug all sexual behavior at hormones. If such a thing isn't begun at the proper time, unless they are incredibly lucky, they will have immense trouble "passing" as their new gender. Many don't make this time, and are doomed to a life of discrimination because people, in a nutshell, are fucking stupid.


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## Xenke (Aug 30, 2011)

Fag/lesbo, sure why not? It's your naughty parts, stick them wherever.

Trans... not on my expense. Get a job if you want to do that.

It's not that I don't love you, hypothetical child, it's just that there are more important things for me to buy for you than to buy the wrong kind of clothes or switch your dingle around.

"BAW, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME"

Children, amirite?


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## Bliss (Aug 30, 2011)

lunar_helix said:


> Again, it wouldn't be my decision, just theirs.  And that's just my opinion.  That's what's wrong with me, is I say what I fee


When it comes to transgender people seem to do a 180 degrees.

Oy vey, what is so sacred ('natural') about suffering? Your brain developed differently because of hormonal factors in womb (probably the most sensible scenario right now) -> sex reassignment is the practical and most humane way to correct the situation (unless you're a weirdo for 'praying the gay tranny away'). End of Lizzie story.

 Ta ta! :Vc



Ad Hoc said:


> Mostly it's to determine if the person truly is  transgendered and not suffering from other other malady that might  manifest itself with GID-like symptoms. (GID = Gender Identity  Disorder.) First thing they'll do is rule out things like depression,*  schizophrenia, or dissociative personality disorder (multiple  personality disorder) as being the cause of the GID symptoms, as opposed  to GID itself.
> 
> *Don't get me wrong here, lots of people who are transgender are also  depressed, GID lends itself to a rather depressing existence. The  question is whether or not the GID caused the depression, or the  depression caused GID-like symptoms. It takes a bit of sorting  out.


I would extend the '*' to shizophrenia and personality disorders. Why couldn't a person have such, but it only would make the identification of the true issue harder for the doctor?

Edit: Unless you're one of the 74% American that think 'schizophrenics are not at all able to make decision concerning their treatment / money management...' or 50%~ who think that they are 'likely to be violent'. >:/


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## Tiger In A Tie (Aug 30, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> To be honest I don't see why counseling is necessary, if it worked people wouldn't still want to have the operation.



Because it's not some nonchalant, trivial surgery. It is a life (and lifestyle) changing surgery. I'll acknowledge right now that it costs a shit ton of money, but that has nothing to do with counseling.

People that are interested in changing genders don't do it for the hell of it. There is a reason for it. If my child (for example purposes, we'll say son)  wanted to have that kind of surgery, I feel I would need to know _why_. Maybe something is bothering him deep down, maybe he's had a traumatic experience. Maybe through counseling he'll find that he doesn't desire the surgery anymore.

So if my kid wanted surgery, the first thing I'd ask is "why?", not "costs too much money".


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> When it comes to transgender people seem to do a 180 degrees.
> 
> Oy vey, what is so sacred ('natural') about suffering? Your brain developed differently because of hormonal factors in womb (probably the most sensible scenario right now) -> sex reassignment is the practical and most humane way to correct the situation (unless you're a weirdo for 'praying the gay tranny away'). End of Lizzie story.
> 
> Ta ta! :Vc


Careful there, you're leading into this misconception that a person has to have the surgery to be a proper transgender. (Not saying that you think this, but look at this thread, everyone seems to think it's the biggest component.) A lot transgenders, in America anyway, never get it. There's a transgender group at the LGBT outreach place I go to. Very few have gotten it and I'd say less than half of the adults make a serious goal of getting it. Ftms get it even less often. Most stop at chest surgery. Maybe it's different there because it's more accessible, but most other places it's the last thing (after legal/social transition, HRT, and chest surgery) if it happens at all.



Lizzie said:


> I would extend the '*' to shizophrenia and  personality disorders. Why couldn't a person have such, but it only  would make the identification of the true issue harder for the doctor?
> 
> Edit: Unless you're one of the 74% American that think 'schizophrenics  are not at all able to make decision concerning their treatment / money  management...' or 50%~ who think that they are 'likely to be violent'.  >:/


Eh I mostly added the asterisk as an afterthought, just forgot to consider the others. You're right.


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## Bliss (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> Careful there, you're leading into this misconception that a person has to have the surgery to be a proper transgender. (Not saying that you think this, but look at this thread, everyone seems to think it's the biggest component.) A lot transgenders, in America anyway, never get it. There's a transgender group at the LGBT outreach place I go to. Very few have gotten it and I'd say less than half of the adults make a serious goal of getting it. Ftms get it even less often. Most stop at chest surgery. Maybe it's different there because it's more accessible, but most other places it's the last thing (after legal/social transition, HRT, and chest surgery) if it happens at all.


True, but most do if they are able and the level of procedure is relatively high.



Azure said:


> The  list of providers is short, the cost is incredibly high, and even then,  there is a time threshold involved in which to begin such a procedure,  usually early teens, a time when parents MOST ignore their children, and  shrug all sexual behavior at hormones. If such a thing isn't begun at  the proper time, unless they are incredibly lucky, they will have  immense trouble "passing" as their new gender. Many don't make this  time, and are doomed to a life of discrimination because people, in a  nutshell, are fucking stupid.


That really bugs me. I saw this episode of Dr Phil (shuddup :V) where a doctor demanded teens to 'go through the natural process' before prescribing hormones. It was disgusting, like an offense to the kid's basic experience of self.

I wonder if she were to take the same responsibility afterwards for their delaying of treatment.


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## Azure (Aug 30, 2011)

That's because Dr. Phil is a sack of human waste? Him and his show, and that twat Oprah too. I'd sooner call Ms Cleo for advice.


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## Bliss (Aug 30, 2011)

Azure said:


> that twat Oprah too..


... 

D:

D:<


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## dinosaurdammit (Aug 30, 2011)

After having a child my perspective on a lot of things has changed. Should she be gay or want a sex change I am willing to support her. I wouldn't pay for all of the surgery but I would at least pay half. I know as a kid my grandmother was pretty supportive but sometimes the things I wanted her support in the most she didn't. I plan to support Caroline through whatever life endeavors she chooses to take.


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## Schwimmwagen (Aug 30, 2011)

Sexuality thing? Sure, why not? The sex change thing? UPPPHHH. I'd certainly support their decision on it, but I won't be paying for it all. That's a big thing right there, and also very questionable. But it's their life, not mine - they can have it if they want it, but I won't be paying for it. BUT can't they pay for it at all? In that case, I'll support them, and steer them in the right direction to get what they want.


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## Heimdal (Aug 30, 2011)

I don't care what my future kids may do regarding that stuff, they're just around to keep my replacement organs fresh.


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## Darkwing (Aug 30, 2011)

Yes, I would be supportive, I would be shocked, buuut, since I'm gay myself of course lol. 

As for sex changes, they are paying for that themselves, but I'll be there for them emotionally.


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## CannonFodder (Aug 30, 2011)

I'd want my kid to be happy, to repress who they are or who they like would only lead to them developing depression or hating themselves.  On the sex change, when I eventually get mine and after I am financially secure; I have a five year plan to become upper middle class and have thought this through; five years from now I'll be transitioned myself and have enough money saved that if they would want one to I would be able to help them.  I do not have kids right now, but want to have one eventually and I would rather them tell me sooner rather than later and I would want them to know I would support them.  So even if they did tell me this and even if I got someone pregnant today then they would only be about five by the time I transitioned.
tl:dr: I would support them and realistically speaking by the time they figure out who they are a person I should have enough money saved to spend that amount of money on them.


Azure said:


> That's because Dr. Phil is a sack of human waste? Him and his show, and that twat Oprah too. I'd sooner call Ms Cleo for advice.


Honestly, I hope Dr. Phil gets vocal paralyzes.  Also if someone is so shitty of a parent that they're getting advice from a tv personality to raise their kids they might as well not raise their kid at all and stick them in front of the tv for hours upon hours a day...  Oh wait, that's right tv and video games are today's babysitters.


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## Nineteen-TwentySeven (Aug 30, 2011)

Yes, yes I would. Because why is it so wrong to be attracted to those of the same gender? Because a self and chronologically contradicting work of fiction tells us so? I think not.
Same goes with transsexualism. Although I would sit down with them and talk about why they feel this way, I'd support them. Because if that's what makes them happy, let it be. Why should they have to live a certain way that makes them unhappy? Isn't that one of the reasons people commit suicide?


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

Me? Fathering something? Scary thought, that.

Absolutely supportive.  In the case of SRS I would urge them to not jump into it quickly and take a goodly amount of time to consider whether they want to (likely irreversibly) alter their bodies in such a fashion.  SRS is IMO kind of a bad joke as it cannot truly give them the gender they desire - FtM changes are not even sexually functional, they've simply given themselves the ability to pee standing up and to pass cursory inspection in a locker room.  They have to use hormone supplements for the rest of their lives as the gonads that would normally handle that task are no longer present.  It's butchery and false hope being given.  Someday they might figure out a way to solve these problems (though the only realistic solution I can think of off the top of my head is rather ghastly, really) but until then, they are giving themselves false hope.


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## Azure (Aug 30, 2011)

False hope still helps. It's better than no hope at all.


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

Azure said:


> False hope still helps. It's better than no hope at all.



Until they confront the fact that it is indeed false hope and realize how raw a deal they've gotten.  And that there's no return/refund policy on that sort of thing.

Hey, they want to change their physical sex to match what their mind tells them they really are? Awesome.  I want a bigger dick without using medieval torture methods or half-assed implant surgery.  I want to change my entire physical appearance to look cool or some shit.  I want to be able to smoke Bannister's record like he was a fat Downie with a bum leg.  I want to be able to see a copy of _Leaves of Grass_ sitting on the horizon and read the fucker in a sexy Euro-accent voice. I'm not getting any of those any time this century.  For the same reason they won't get what they REALLY want.  Fuck's sake, I'm not saying all this to discourage them from being themselves and being happy human beings, I'm saying this to keep them from having to deal with the realization 10 years down the road that the bill of goods they bought was a fraud and there's no way of getting the money back.


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## Ad Hoc (Aug 30, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Me? Fathering something? Scary thought, that.
> 
> Absolutely supportive.  In the case of SRS I would urge them to not jump into it quickly and take a goodly amount of time to consider whether they want to (likely irreversibly) alter their bodies in such a fashion.  SRS is IMO kind of a bad joke as it cannot truly give them the gender they desire -* FtM changes are not even sexually functional, they've simply given themselves the ability to pee standing up and to pass cursory inspection in a locker room.*  They have to use hormone supplements for the rest of their lives as the gonads that would normally handle that task are no longer present.  It's butchery and false hope being given.  Someday they might figure out a way to solve these problems (though the only realistic solution I can think of off the top of my head is rather ghastly, really) but until then, they are giving themselves false hope.


That's not true. Metoidioplasty. It's a micropenis, though.


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## Fiesta_Jack (Aug 30, 2011)

If my child is a flaming homosexual, I will disown them. No camp gays in my fucking household. A reasonably articulate and nonfaggy individual who happens to be attracted to same gender individuals? Sure, not a problem. 

SRS is an issue that, while I'd be emotionally supportive, and possibly even pay for therapy, I would not pay for. I would use all my influence possible to help them make the money though.


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

Ad Hoc said:


> That's not true. Metoidioplasty. It's a micropenis, though.



Oh, great, another layer of insecurity to haunt them forever and ever.  Lipstick on the pig.


----------



## Heliophobic (Aug 30, 2011)

I'd be fine with them telling me they're homosexual. Transsexual's slightly more complicated.


----------



## Tabasco (Aug 30, 2011)

I wouldn't dare bring a kid into this world if I had any plans to abandon them before they're capable of properly taking care of themselves - or abandoning them over anything less than becoming Hannibal Lecter. Answer.


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## moonchylde (Aug 30, 2011)

If my stepson came out to me, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I mean, yeah, I'd be a little disappointed that there would be no grandchildren to spoil in ways I was unable to spoil my own child (like my parents are currently doing), but at this point I'll just be happy if he doesn't climb a clock tower and start popping random strangers. Whatever makes him happy, just so long as he is successful in whatever he wants to do, and makes lots of money so he can support his mother and I when we get too old and bitchy to do it ourselves.

As for the transgender thing... I dunno. I'd still try and be supportive emotionally, but like I said, he better be making a lot of money if he wants an operation, 'cause I'm not paying for shit.


----------



## chapels (Aug 30, 2011)

Fiesta_Jack said:


> If my child is a flaming homosexual, I will disown them. No camp gays in my fucking household. A reasonably articulate and nonfaggy individual who happens to be attracted to same gender individuals? Sure, not a problem.


yeah! and i only support gay marriage if both chicks are hot!


----------



## Antonin Scalia (Aug 30, 2011)

chapels said:


> yeah! and i only support gay marriage if both chicks are hot!



whooooooooooooo


----------



## CannonFodder (Aug 30, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> If my stepson came out to me, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I mean, yeah, I'd be a little disappointed that there would be no grandchildren to spoil in ways I was unable to spoil my own child (like my parents are currently doing), *but at this point I'll just be happy if he doesn't climb a clock tower and start popping random strangers*. Whatever makes him happy, just so long as he is successful in whatever he wants to do, and makes lots of money so he can support his mother and I when we get too old and bitchy to do it ourselves.
> 
> As for the transgender thing... I dunno. I'd still try and be supportive emotionally, but like I said, he better be making a lot of money if he wants an operation, 'cause I'm not paying for shit.


Kind of a bad example really, the guy that did that shooting had a tumor inside his brain that was pushing against the anger part of his brain so he had no real control over what he was doing.


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## Volkodav (Aug 30, 2011)

not unless theyre paying for it 100%



CannonFodder said:


> the anger part of his brain


 wut


----------



## CannonFodder (Aug 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> wut


I forgot the name for it, basically the A&M shooting the person I replied to was later found to have a massive tumor inside his brain and made him flip out and go postal.


Back on topic, as I said earlier I would want my kid to be happy cause if they wound up killing themselves I would feel like a shitty parent.


----------



## SnowFox (Aug 30, 2011)

I get the feeling the general attitude is "I love you unconditionally unless it inconveniences me or makes me question my views."
If you're different in a way that I can't relate to then uh, whatever. You're on your own kid.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting.
It happens sometimes. I have an ANGER tumor.


----------



## Fenrari (Aug 30, 2011)

Well being that I'm gay I'd be happy with however they felt they truly were.


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## Volkodav (Aug 30, 2011)

the parents who are STRICTLY anti-sex change remind me of the people who are strictly anti-neuter
why the fuck would you care whats/what's not between your childs/dogs legs.. lmao


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## israfur (Aug 30, 2011)

I would be supportive of their choice. 
I may not agree with some of the things they *might* do, but I will support their right to do it. After all they lead their own lives, and as a parent-to-be it is my obligation to make sure that they're happy.


Simply put, I understand because I went through those experience myself.


----------



## Jiangxi (Aug 30, 2011)

As someone who once considered a sex-change operation, the amount of assumption and incorrect thinking in this thread is a little shocking, to be honest; one minority misunderstanding another.

It's not so much a *want* to change someone's physical sex, but an extreme urge and desire. This desire can lead to many things; suicide, self-mutilation, lack of self worth, depression, even going into a vegetable state.

My friend, Chloe, is a transgendered male-to-female. Sometimes when she looks at her body, she breaks down crying and goes into a huge depressive mess, convinced that she's unlovable and ugly. For her, I know the SRS will make her happy, and I know it won't be a cosmetic surgery; but one that will improve her life and make her outside fit her inside.

Sex changes are *very* different from cosmetic surgeries. Whereas a cosmetic surgery is a want or insecurity at best, a sex change is a matter of fitting the brain you were given / have developed. To have a body so out of place, so unfitting to your mind, to be so disconnected and hateful towards your flesh is a heartbreaking thing when it reaches that point.

It's not hurting anyone. It's not going to be paid by the parents, most likely. Many people have to go through with the surgery by years of psychological evaluation, hormone treatments and living as the other gender to prove to the state that they're competent enough to know *this* is their right choice, and their only option to be who they feel.

Just because it's more a mentality issue than something with physical endeavors, doesn't make it any less legitimate than going, "stop being gay, stop being black, stop being christian, stop being atheist, stop being furry."

The mind is a complex organ, and when the wires / chemicals get mixed up.. it's up to the individual to know whether they're happy being perceived as male / female, or making the physical swap. Though transgenderism has come a long way, there are still a few setbacks, as there are with any surgeries.

Really, it's not 'changing something that shouldn't be changed', so much as adopting the correct lifestyle that suits them. It's so painful to be called something you're not every day, and if they have the courage to go through that, I think they're very brave, very influential and moving individuals.

I'd accept my child if they were gay, lesbian or transgendered, and I'd give all the emotional support I possibly could.


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## Heimdal (Aug 30, 2011)

"When I sit down and day dream about my son plowing some chick, I don't want it to come to the realization that he'd be plowing another guy, or that he chopped his own dick off and wears makeup. What a bonerkill that would be."

There ya go. :V


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## ArielMT (Aug 30, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> I saw this episode of Dr Phil (shuddup :V) where a doctor demanded teens to 'go through the natural process' before prescribing hormones. It was disgusting, like an offense to the kid's basic experience of self.



Do remember that Dr. Phil is the same quack who blamed the Virginia Tech massacre on video games, only to be shown that the shooter didn't play any.  If you watch, it should be to be entertained by misinformation, not to be educated or informed.


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

Jiangxi said:


> As someone who once considered a sex-change operation, the amount of assumption and incorrect thinking in this thread is a little shocking, to be honest; one minority misunderstanding another.
> 
> It's not so much a *want* to change someone's physical sex, but an extreme urge and desire. This desire can lead to many things; suicide, self-mutilation, lack of self worth, depression, even going into a vegetable state.
> 
> ...



So you think that in spite of all the costs and the shortcomings of SRS as it currently exists that it is a long term choice that would not leave a child of mine with long-standing regrets (particularly if a BETTER sort of surgery is developed that their previous SRS would possibly disqualify them for) and would make them truly feel like they had changed their physical sex in a manner that puts their body more in line with their mind?

See, that's one of the things that gets me.  How many SRS cases are truly satisfied with the results of their surgery and how many are forcing themselves to be happy with the raw deal that they got? And how do you DEFINE "feeling" like a man or a woman? I honestly can't put a definition to it - I'm a human.  I happen to possess most of the basic defining male physical characteristics including the genitalia.  Do I FEEL like a MAN? I don't know.  I don't know of any other way to feel.  I feel like a PERSON, the physical gender/sex itself hasn't ever really been important beyond physical needs and societal roles and restrictions attendant to such things (which themselves are becoming less and less relevant).  I could say that "yes, I feel like a man" but it's not due to any actual distinct perceptible feeling in my brain commanding me to be such.

I identify as male because that's the only way I know how to identify.  It's like asking someone who has been a paraplegic, for the entirety of their ability to recollect their lives as a thinking being, what it'd be like to play Dance Dance Revolution.  If transgendered/transsexual people ever wonder why the rest of the world doesn't understand them, it's because whatever lies at the heart of their condition - be it some kind of crossed wiring that somehow gives them a gender identity in conflict with that of their physical body's sex or simply a peculiar form of dysmorphia - their situation is nigh-on impossible to actually truly *empathize* with.


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## Ty1337 (Aug 30, 2011)

Of course! kids these days are very emotionally unstable, so many things to bully about, I plan on being 100% supportive of my kids


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## Jiangxi (Aug 30, 2011)

Tycho said:


> So you think that in spite of all the costs and the shortcomings of SRS as it currently exists that it is a long term choice that would not leave a child of mine with long-standing regrets (particularly if a BETTER sort of surgery is developed that their previous SRS would possibly disqualify them for) and would make them truly feel like they had changed their physical sex in a manner that puts their body more in line with their mind?
> 
> See, that's one of the things that gets me.  How many SRS cases are truly satisfied with the results of their surgery and how many are forcing themselves to be happy with the raw deal that they got? And how do you DEFINE "feeling" like a man or a woman? I honestly can't put a definition to it - I'm a human.  I happen to possess most of the basic defining male physical characteristics including the genitalia.  Do I FEEL like a MAN? I don't know.  I don't know of any other way to feel.  I feel like a PERSON, the physical gender/sex itself hasn't ever really been important beyond physical needs and societal roles and restrictions attendant to such things (which themselves are becoming less and less relevant).  I could say that "yes, I feel like a man" but it's not due to any actual distinct perceptible feeling in my brain commanding me to be such.
> 
> I identify as male because that's the only way I know how to identify.  It's like asking someone who has been a paraplegic for the entirety of their ability recollect their lives as a thinking being what it'd be like to play Dance Dance Revolution.  If transgendered/transsexual people ever wonder why the rest of the world doesn't understand them, it's because whatever lies at the heart of their condition - be it some kind of crossed wiring that somehow gives them a gender identity in conflict with that of their physical body's sex or simply a peculiar form of dysmorphia - their situation is nigh-on impossible to actually truly *empathize* with.




No, no. I know sexual-reassignment surgery still has a long way to go. How far we've come is undeniably hard to ignore, though. Years ago, a 'girl' walks into a surgeon's office, goes under, wakes up with ripped flesh from his/her legs and arms for the skin graph, *and* with mutilated genitalia devoid of all feeling.

Thankfully, the science is being perfected. With any surgery, you'll have risks; does it mean the surgery is less legitimate? No. It just means there needs to be more understanding and research.

Many transgenders don't even have the surgery, to be honest; one can be transgender without ever having a surgery or hormonal injection.

Really, the debate you've provided is a very good one (much appreciated, by the way), but I can't speak for all the transsexual and transgender people. Some go through life fine in their biological bodies, while others break down entirely.

It overall depends on how passionate one is about pursuing their sexual identification alongside their gender identification, as the two are separate.


----------



## Tomias_Redford (Aug 30, 2011)

Yo dawg, when I got kids, Imma be like, the best daddy ever bro.  Imma let them do what they want, I ain't ever gonna say no to my kids.  Hell, they could have a circle jerk to shitting dick nipple fat furry gay porn for all I care, and Imma still love my babies with all my heart yo, I'm telling ya'll straight up right here.

:V


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## PenningtontheSkunk (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm Lesbian/FtM Transgender. I'll fully support my kid(s) and make them feel as comfortable as possible to go through whatever.

Love has no limits or price.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Aug 30, 2011)

Tomias_Redford said:


> Yo dawg, when I got kids, Imma be like, the best daddy ever bro.  Imma let them do what they want, I ain't ever gonna say no to my kids.  Hell, they could have a circle jerk to shitting dick nipple fat furry gay porn for all I care, and Imma still love my babies with all my heart yo, I'm telling ya'll straight up right here.
> 
> :V



I'll laugh later when I find it funny.


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## Volkodav (Aug 30, 2011)

Jiangxi said:


> Sometimes when she looks at her body, she breaks down crying and goes into a huge depressive mess, convinced that she's unlovable and ugly.


"Ugly" is a a term that varies from person to person. I don't know why she'd be interested in such a drastic change [sex change] if she's not mentally stable when it comes to her personal appearance. That's what psychologists and sex change specialists look for when talking to patients.
Not to rain on your parade or nothing :\


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## Jiangxi (Aug 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> "Ugly" is a a term that varies from person to person. I don't know why she'd be interested in such a drastic change [sex change] if she's not mentally stable when it comes to her personal appearance. That's what psychologists and sex change specialists look for when talking to patients.
> Not to rain on your parade or nothing :\



She thinks she's ugly because she has a penis.
That's why she gets upset. It drives her to tears a lot of the time.
She's felt much better since she's been on hormones, but yeah; the only things that set her off, are times where people tell her she looks like a man. No girl wants to be told they look like that.


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## chapels (Aug 30, 2011)

Heimdal said:


> "When I sit down and day dream about my son plowing some chick, I don't want it to come to the realization that he'd be plowing another guy, or that he chopped his own dick off and wears makeup. What a bonerkill that would be."
> 
> There ya go. :V


ahahah stop fantasizing about your son's cock. why would you even do that


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

chapels said:


> ahahah stop fantasizing about your son's cock. why would you even do that



Parents living vicariously through their kids happens all the fucking time, are you kidding

They may have gone past their youthful prime and lost much of their own vigor, vim and virility but by golly they'll settle for obsessing over yours like it was their own

THEY MADE YOU FOR THEIR PURPOSES, THEY INVESTED TIME AND MONEY AND ENERGY INTO YOU SO THEY COULD TRY TO LIVE ON THROUGH YOU

YOU ARE MINI-THEM, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THEM, WHY AREN'T YOU LIKE THEM, WHERE DID THEY GO WRONG IN THEIR PARENTING AND BRAINWASHING AND MANIPULATION AND ABUSE

the kind of people who like to brag about their kids by saying "MY SON makes a lot of money, MY DAUGHTER is a valedictorian, MY SON bangs the hottest chicks in the world, MY DAUGHTER crushes the will of lesser human beings and directs them like the tools they are in the world political scene, MY SON died for your sins, MY DAUGHTER can beat up your daughter, etc.".  Lots of the possessive "MY" in there and it's not coincidence.

and bonus points if they can make you feel completely and utterly beholden to them for their generosity in giving you the opportunity to exist in their image and please them greatly in doing so, to serve is the greatest honor


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## Volkodav (Aug 30, 2011)

Jiangxi said:


> the only things that set her off, are times where people tell her she looks like a man. No girl wants to be told they look like that.


Yeah that's a really damn douchey move



Tycho said:


> Parents living vicariously through their kids happens all the fucking time, are you kidding
> 
> They may have gone past their youthful prime and lost much of their own vigor, vim and virility but by golly they'll settle for obsessing over yours like it was their own
> 
> ...


 
ha ha i dunno man
i would get pretty weirded out if my dad started saying "your sister is good at taking cock" instead of "your sister is doing a really good job as a cashier"


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## Jiangxi (Aug 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Yeah that's a really damn douchey move



Is that sarcasm? Or not? I can't tell because I'm just a tad bit tired at the moment and I don't want to say anything seemingly stupid. xD


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Yeah that's a really damn douchey move
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, no, with the father-daughter dynamic it's not so much about reliving a youthful sex life through them, hell a fair amount of the time they subconsciously don't want anyone to fuck their daughter because IF THEY CAN'T HAVE HER NO ONE CAN.  No one else is good enough for their daughter because no one else is THEM.


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## Nineteen-TwentySeven (Aug 30, 2011)

Jiangxi said:


> Is that sarcasm? Or not? I can't tell because I'm just a tad bit tired at the moment and I don't want to say anything seemingly stupid. xD


I'm almost certain that is not sarcasm, because that is a really douchey move. She's trying as hard as she can to, frankly, be something she's not, and (most) people don't respect that.


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## Jiangxi (Aug 30, 2011)

Nineteen-TwentySeven said:


> I'm almost certain that is not sarcasm, because that is a really douchey move. She's trying as hard as she can to, frankly, be something she's not, and (most) people don't respect that.



Yeah. I don't mean saying something stupid as 'offensive'. I'm not like that. I meant I genuinely didn't want to appear ignorant to the meaning of the post, haha.

But, she's trying really hard; since I don't know this community well, I didn't know their stance on the fact that it really hurts her when people say she looks like a guy, despite being biologically born as one. It's still hurtful since she has the mind of a woman and all.

I'm glad someone else has the same approach, even if only for purposes relating to common-decency alone.


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## Spatel (Aug 30, 2011)

I'd pay for the sex change and gladly drive them to the clinic.


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## Volkodav (Aug 30, 2011)

Jiangxi said:


> Is that sarcasm? Or not? I can't tell because I'm just a tad bit tired at the moment and I don't want to say anything seemingly stupid. xD


No I'm serious. It's douchey regardless if the person is a MtF or not. Saying to a chick "you look like a dude" is so goddamn rude I can't believe it



Tycho said:


> Oh, no, with the father-daughter dynamic it's not so much about reliving a youthful sex life through them, hell a fair amount of the time they subconsciously don't want anyone to fuck their daughter because IF THEY CAN'T HAVE HER NO ONE CAN.  No one else is good enough for their daughter because no one else is THEM.


I dunno man
lmao I seriously dont think my dad is wishing he was fucking my sister


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## Jiangxi (Aug 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> No I'm serious. It's douchey regardless if the person is a MtF or not. Saying to a chick "you look like a dude" is so goddamn rude I can't believe it


That's the weird thing, though. She doesn't look like a guy, at all. She looks more female than any other girl I even know, let alone hang around with. If you saw her down the street, you'd be convinced she was a very pretty, but somewhat flat chick. Mostly, I think it's just people ragging on her and being haters.

I agree, though; I like your opinion on the subject, too. [:


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## Tycho (Aug 30, 2011)

Clayton said:


> I dunno man
> lmao I seriously dont think my dad is wishing he was fucking my sister



Does he try to chase off every boy she displays a keen interest in?  Does he try to set her up with some guy HE approves of and gets along with? He's not wishing, it's not usually a conscious thing.


----------



## CannonFodder (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Does he try to chase off every boy she displays a keen interest in?  Does he try to set her up with some guy HE approves of and gets along with? He's not wishing, it's not usually a conscious thing.


This is strangely specific of a theoretically situation you've come up, is there something you want to tell the class?


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Does he try to chase off every boy she displays a keen interest in?  Does he try to set her up with some guy HE approves of and gets along with? He's not wishing, it's not usually a conscious thing.


 Nah he doesn't


----------



## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> This is strangely specific of a theoretically situation you've come up, is there something you want to tell the class?



It took me two tries to figure out what you were TRYING to say in the first half of that sentence.  No, this is not a theoretical situation.  This is family psychology that would make Freud blink, and it's more common than you think because of the way our societies have worked for a few millennia now. 



Clayton said:


> Nah he doesn't



Well, that's one less insanely protective sort of dad out there.


----------



## CannonFodder (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> It took me two tries to figure out what you were TRYING to say in the first half of that sentence.  No, this is not a theoretical situation.  This is family psychology that would make Freud blink, and it's more common than you think because of the way our societies have worked for a few millennia now.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's one less insanely protective sort of dad out there.


"Freud was kinda nutbar, but had the perfect angle.  He made a bunch of theories you couldn't disprove and if you tried he just said you were suppressing what he was talking about.  You can't get away with that in theoretical physics, you have to have serious math to back it up.  I wish I had a 'theory' like that"-Gordon Freeman


----------



## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> "Freud was kinda nutbar, but had the perfect angle.  He made a bunch of theories you couldn't disprove and if you tried he just said you were suppressing what he was talking about.  You can't get away with that in theoretical physics, you have to have serious math to back it up.  I wish I had a 'theory' like that"-Gordon Freeman



are you quoting a fictional character as a counterpoint to my statement

a fictional character who is SILENT

says nothing

at all

doesn't even grunt in pain or scream in fury

someone has hit his Mute button so hard it became permanent

is this what you are doing?


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Well, that's one less insanely protective sort of dad out there.


Yeah it's weird.
She tells him about guys she's going on dates with/when they're being assholes/etcetc [it's almost like a friend-to-friend thing when they talk about it to be honest] yet when my sisters friend brought over a case of beer he was all "I don't like that kid. What kind of guy comes over to his girlfriends house and brings a case of beer??!"
and im all

"...dad.. he's gay"


----------



## CannonFodder (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> are you quoting a fictional character as a counterpoint to my statement
> 
> a fictional character who is SILENT
> 
> ...


I was quoting freeman's mind as a rhetoric reply to your statement as a means of finding humor in the fact that you quoted freud, even though there are many other philosophical ideals and thoughts in the world as a end all argument for your own opinion, when nowadays there are many more fields of philosophy and psychology in how we understand how the human mind words.  So while it is okay to build your own opinion on top of older ideas, to call it infallible on the basis of it's main point is based on a well know person that many individuals will know is quintessentially heresy to the progress of human though and the advancement of moral ideals, cause it is treating standing on the shoulders of giants as if you can not evolve upon what the giant brought forth unto the world.  Much like how Einstein worked on relativity, to treat Einsteinian relativity as a infallible fact while disregarding knowledge we have learned pressing against the cloud of ignorance is in of itself ignorance because you are substituting advancement for what you know and placing the world inside a metaphorical shell in which you claim to know anything, when in reality as a race we understand or know very little about anything, but advance forwards to press for against ignorance in order to understand the outside world and in part to learn more about ourselves.


----------



## Lunar (Aug 31, 2011)

Clayton said:


> No I'm serious. It's douchey regardless if the person is a MtF or not. Saying to a chick "you look like a dude" is so goddamn rude I can't believe it


I know... I feel so embarrassed when I mix them up, and it happens at work a lot.  "Have a nice day, sir!" "MA'AM" "Oh, jeez, okay... *walks away and isn't seen for a good twenty minutes*


----------



## CAThulu (Aug 31, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Financial support for an operation is not what I actually meant, but that is my bad I wasn't clear. *I actually meant emotional support for both.*



Oh.  In that case, then yes to both.


----------



## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I was quoting freeman's mind as a rhetoric reply to your statement as a means of finding humor in the fact that you quoted freud, even though there are many other philosophical ideals and thoughts in the world as a end all argument for your own opinion, when nowadays there are many more fields of philosophy and psychology in how we understand how the human mind words.  So while it is okay to build your own opinion on top of older ideas, to call it infallible on the basis of it's main point is based on a well know person that many individuals will know is quintessentially heresy to the progress of human though and the advancement of moral ideals, cause it is treating standing on the shoulders of giants as if you can not evolve upon what the giant brought forth unto the world.  Much like how Einstein worked on relativity, to treat Einsteinian relativity as a infallible fact while disregarding knowledge we have learned pressing against the cloud of ignorance is in of itself ignorance because you are substituting advancement for what you know and placing the world inside a metaphorical shell in which you claim to know anything, when in reality as a race we understand or know very little about anything, but advance forwards to press for against ignorance in order to understand the outside world and in part to learn more about ourselves.



I didn't say it was INFALLIBLE.

I will finish countering by summing up what you just told me, in less than 10 words.

"I CAN SMART TOO, YOU'RE NOT SO COOL"


----------



## CannonFodder (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> I didn't say it was INFALLIBLE.
> 
> I will finish countering by summing up what you just told me, in less than 10 words.
> 
> "I CAN SMART TOO, YOU'RE NOT SO COOL"



I can summarize what I just said in less than 10 words too,
"Freud was a nutbar"


----------



## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I can summarize what I just said in less than 10 words too,
> "Freud was a nutbar"



Except you're obviously plagiarizing right there.



Clayton said:


> Yeah it's weird.
> She tells him about guys she's going on dates with/when they're being assholes/etcetc [it's almost like a friend-to-friend thing when they talk about it to be honest] yet when my sisters friend brought over a case of beer he was all "I don't like that kid. What kind of guy comes over to his girlfriends house and brings a case of beer??!"
> and im all
> 
> "...dad.. he's gay"



"More like 'boyfriend's house', Dad :3c"


----------



## Radiohead (Aug 31, 2011)

I can't have kids, but if I did I would support them regardless of their sexuality or gender identity. However, I wouldn't help pay for an operation until they knew for certain how they feel about their gender. It's too expensive to support something they might regret or try to take back later.


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## Volkodav (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> "More like 'boyfriend's house', Dad :3c"
> 
> FUCK DUBPOST


HAH

He gave me an eraser today
http://www.asianfoodgrocer.com/img/prods/erasers/210074b-eraser-hamster-green-lg.jpg


----------



## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

Clayton said:


> HAH
> 
> He gave me an eraser today
> http://www.asianfoodgrocer.com/img/prods/erasers/210074b-eraser-hamster-green-lg.jpg



those hollow eyesockets, oh god.  Creep-o-rama.


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 31, 2011)

Tycho said:


> those hollow eyesockets, oh god.  Creep-o-rama.


No it's got black eyes, look close [tilt your screen or somethin]


----------



## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

Clayton said:


> No it's got black eyes, look close [tilt your screen or somethin]



o i c, had to fiddle with the brightness/contrast a teeny bit


----------



## The_Lightning_Fox (Aug 31, 2011)

let me put it this way... If there is a parent ou there who does not support their child in relation to their sexual orientation, then they are a _worthless peice of carbon!_ 
(not counting finacial support for sex change op)


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## Paul'o'fox (Aug 31, 2011)

I would be fully supportive, if they wanted a sex change though, I would make sure they thought through it fully. I know a 14 year old girl who is transitioning. That's too young to make a decision like that. I'd have them wait till they were maybe 16 or 17?


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## Commiecomrade (Aug 31, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Be emotionally supportive of them if they wanted a sex change when they grew up? Or became gay or lesbian?
> 
> 
> In all honesty, I would. Simple as that, I'd still be supportive of their decisions and sexuality wouldn't be an issue with me.



They wouldn't "become" gay or lesbian. They'd just grow the balls to tell me they are. And I'd be fine with that.

But for a sex change, that's a really huge irreversible decision. I wouldn't be on board right away, and I also wouldn't be paying for it. But I'd be fine if they wanted to do that.


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## TreacleFox (Aug 31, 2011)

Im only 16 now, impossible for me to know. >.>


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## Night-san (Aug 31, 2011)

Naturally, I'd support them.

Not that I ever plan on having kids, mind.


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## Tycho (Aug 31, 2011)

TreacleFox said:


> Im only 16 now, impossible for me to know. >.>



we're not asking you to know anything (which would be a huge mistake), we're asking you a simple fucking hypothetical

you have somehow begat or adopted some poor confused youngster who grows up to realize that they aren't straight and/or cisgendered (weird fucking word, that)

they say "mommy/daddy, you don't hate me for being LGBT do you? you want me to be happy, right? you are an open-minded and decent human being, right?"

WHAT DO YOU RESPOND TO THE ABOVE?

if it's hard to imagine taking care of a kid, imagine your dog asking you or something (I imagine you fantasize about that shit anyway) for fuck's sake pretending that you're a parent isn't that much of a stretch for even a tiny brain


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## DarrylWolf (Aug 31, 2011)

Well, I'd take a deep breath and listen to him/her about what early life experiences might have led to this admission. It would take time to best handle this particular hairpin turn on the road of life but it's not going to help anyone having these kinds of open secrets that nobody talks about. So I'd sit and listen to him/her attentively about what kind of childhood experiences that led  I'm certain I'd grieve with my wife about what we did that might have led to this. Then, I'd find out about resources and programs that might help my child through this and help him/her back on the right path. It would be the same kind of support that I'd offer my child if it turned they were addicted to alcohol or drugs.

But the last thing I'd ever do is disown my child for this because he'd need my support at that critical time. I think Lorie Burkett and Mark Yarhouse had some key words of advice on this very issue in their book, _Sexual Identity_

With the recent ads from ex-gay ministries citing examples of people  changing their sexual orientation, some parents may have the unrealistic  expectations that their child can make a complete change in their  sexual orientation. Sending this message to your child may set them up  for feelings of failure and rejection, especially if they continue to  invest time and financial and emotional resources in professional  treatment or paraprofessional ministry to facilitate change. Even among  those who are highly motivated to experience change, there are no easy  answers or pat formulas to remove every vestige of same-sex attraction.  Avoid blaming your child and using 'if only' statements, such as 'If you  would only do what they tell you, you would get better,' 'If you didn't  hang around___,  you wouldn't have this problem,' or 'If you would only  begin to wear makeup and fix yourself up.'"



The very last thing I'd do is actually disown my child for that because I'd always love my children. I would love my children but that doesn't mean that I'd support what they're doing.


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## Tycho (Sep 1, 2011)

DarrylWolf said:


> The very last thing I'd do is actually disown my child for that because I'd always love my children. But sometimes, things



...TO BE CONTINUED IN THE NEXT EPISODE


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## Lobar (Sep 1, 2011)

Whatever is best for them to live a happy life.  I would want to be sure that such a drastic and irreversible change would actually make them happy first, though.


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## DevistatedDrone (Sep 1, 2011)

HOMOSEXUALITY IS WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-

but seriously

I'd first question what makes them believe that they are the way they are. Only because I would like to understand if they really feel the way they say they feel instead of them going through a phase or doing what's cool or what ever.
The only reason why I would do this first is that I actually have had close friends who went gay just for the hell of it. Both guys and girls. They then said, after the 'phase' was over, that they didn't really feel like they were in love or enjoyed the sex or anything. Someone actually told me they just did what they did for bragging rights. (FUCKING WHAT?!)

I wont stop them doing what ever they want, however. I may not accept their decisions or mindset given certain circumstances, but I will support them. Too bad I wont be having children ):


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## Bliss (Sep 1, 2011)

Tycho said:


> Me? Fathering something? Scary thought, that.


I hope you mind that hereafter I'm calling you 'papÃ¡'. :F



Ad Hoc said:


> That's not true. Metoidioplasty. It's a micropenis, though.


Wonder if all of FAF went out to get a micropenis would we get a group discount?



ArielMT said:


> Do remember that Dr. Phil is the same quack who  blamed the Virginia Tech massacre on video games, only to be shown that  the shooter didn't play any.  If you watch, it should be to be  entertained by misinformation, not to be educated or informed.


I'm obsessively in love with things I hate. 

And misinformation doesn't entertain me. It's sad.



DarrylWolf said:


> Well, I'd take a deep breath and listen to him/her about what early life experiences might have led to this admission. It would take time to best handle this particular hairpin turn on the road of life but it's not going to help anyone having these kinds of open secrets that nobody talks about. So I'd sit and listen to him/her attentively about what kind of childhood experiences that led  I'm certain I'd grieve with my wife about what we did that might have led to this.


It was that shirt of a wrong colour he/she once wore. :V



> Then, I'd find out about resources and programs that might help my child through this and help him/her back on the right path.


I take this does not mean acceptance of self and pursuit of happiness?



> It would be the same kind of support that I'd offer my child if it turned they were addicted to alcohol or drugs.


What the *heck*?



> I think Lorie Burkett and Mark Yarhouse had some key words of advice on this very issue in their book, _Sexual Identity_


I have a feeling they either advocate for 'praying the gay away' or alternatively at least base their morals on a certain old book.

Which should make it obvious how objectively, practically and compassionately they relate to this 'issue'.



> ex-gay ministries


Scum of the Earth.



> Avoid blaming your child and using 'if only' statements, such as 'If you  would only do what they tell you, you would get better,' 'If you didn't  hang around___,  you wouldn't have this problem,' or 'If you would only  begin to wear makeup and fix yourself up.'"


Or how about, y'know, saying "you're gay and that's 'kay"? 

_Oh jolly!_


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## Leafblower29 (Sep 1, 2011)

I'd hate to say it but I probably wouldn't care about them.


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## The_Lightning_Fox (Sep 1, 2011)

DarrylWolf said:
			
		

> that doesn't mean I'd support what they are doing



_You are a worthless piece of carbon!_



Leafblower29 said:


> I'd hate to say it but I probably wouldn't care about them.



When you say that, do you mean that you didn't care about them to begin with or because they were LGBT? 

If the latter, see previous statement.


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## Fenrari (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't really see why it matters. A parents purpose is to make sure the child is capable of functioning in the world without them. Learning the pros and cons of relationships doesn't fall in that circle.


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## The_Lightning_Fox (Sep 1, 2011)

Fenrari said:


> I don't really see why it matters. A parents purpose is to make sure the child is capable of functioning in the world without them. Learning the pros and cons of relationships doesn't fall in that circle.



But wouldn't the parent/child relationship affect the psychology of that child therefore affecting thier ability to function?


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## Volkodav (Sep 1, 2011)

Fenrari said:


> I don't really see why it matters. A parents purpose is to make sure the child is capable of functioning in the world without them. Learning the pros and cons of relationships doesn't fall in that circle.


 
some people dont want to be disowned by their parents


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## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 1, 2011)

TreacleFox said:


> Im only 16 now, impossible for me to know. >.>



It's hypothetical question, 99% of replies here get what that is except you. :v


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## moonchylde (Sep 1, 2011)

I actually sat down and discussed this with my girlfriend last night. We pretty much came to the conclusion that if our son came out to us, we'd accept and love him just the same... but it would still be kinda weird at the same time. Also, we would feel bad for all the girls in the world... he's only eleven and there's already girls following him around with their tongues hanging out 

Honestly, though, with his IQ and interests currently, I'm predicting he'll become an engineer (aka Uber Nerd),which means he'll never get laid either way it goes. :V


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## Bliss (Sep 1, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> Honestly, though, with his IQ and interests currently, I'm predicting he'll become an engineer (aka Uber Nerd),which means he'll never get laid either way it goes. :V


He got them rockin'
 like Stephen Hawking


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## MausC (Sep 1, 2011)

My life partner is transgendered male to female and bisexual, and I am bisexual as well, and obviously I'd have no issues supporting a child who was LGBTetc as much as our lifestyle could afford. 

What I wanted to talk about more was this:


Clayton said:


> the parents who are STRICTLY anti-sex change remind me of the people who are strictly anti-neuter
> why the fuck would you care whats/what's not between your childs/dogs legs.. lmao



I do not agree with this at all. 

A dog being neutered is not similar at all- except, both are having genitalia altered. That's it.

A dog is neutered for practical lifestyle reasons and it is NOT the dog's decision. A transgendered person who wants an operation is make the CONSCIOUS choice to do it, they know what is going on and desire it. A dog being neutered is more comparable to eunuchs than anything in my opinion!


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## Thou Dog (Sep 1, 2011)

I'd like to have grandchildren. If my kids turned out to be in any way non-straight, such that their relationship could not (biologically) produce children, I'd encourage them to adopt. That's about all. I want my kids to grow up to be good people first, and once they've accomplished that, then what more can I ask of them?


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## moonchylde (Sep 1, 2011)

Thou Dog said:


> I'd like to have grandchildren. If my kids turned out to be in any way non-straight, such that their relationship could not (biologically) produce children, I'd encourage them to adopt. That's about all. I want my kids to grow up to be good people first, and once they've accomplished that, then what more can I ask of them?



This, except for the grandchildren part. I am not a free babysitter, dammit.


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## CannonFodder (Sep 1, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> This, except for the grandchildren part.* I am not a free babysitter, dammit*.


I heard dat!
I would like to have kids eventually, but I hope that if they have kids they won't view me as a free babysitter, my sister and brother already view me as such.


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## Tycho (Sep 1, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> I hope you mind that hereafter I'm calling you 'papÃ¡'. :F



what

why

is this some sort of Finnish humor joke thing


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## Volkodav (Sep 1, 2011)

I have kids dumped on me all the time like I'm a free babysitter. I can't fucking take it. I don't like children, I don't want them near me, I don't want to hang out with them.
When I say i want to go for a mother fucking walk, I mean I'm going for a walk *MYSELF*, I do not want to be trailed by a 6 year old.

Fuck

Not just 6 year olds either, but I've had a 2 year old dumped on me once. *What the fuck am I supposed to do with a 2 year old?!?* I don't know what to do if it starts choking on something, what the fuck.
One time, when said 2 year old was like 1 or something, it was leaning on the edge of the table eating pieces of apple. All of the sudden it starts coughing and drooling and im all.. ok.. what.. what the fuck is going on.
Didn't know what it was doing, turns out it was choking and my aunt pulled the apple piece out of its mouth.

I don't understand why people trust me watching their kids, I haven't taken a *single* babysitting class in my entire life. I don't know what babies eat, I don't know how to prepare baby food, and I don't know what the fuck they do all day. Yet for some reason people find that because I can entertain a kid for a couple hours - that I'm the perfect babysitter for their kids.

Annoying.


EDIT: and before you say "so tell them you dont want to babysit them"
You tell that to a 6 year old who calls you her "best friend" and gets so excited when you come over that she sits in the window [lol]


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## Hisu (Sep 2, 2011)

Can't picture myself having children, really, but if I do... well, I won't care who, or why, or how gets into their beds, as long as there's no physical harm done.


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## Tycho (Sep 2, 2011)

Clayton said:


> EDIT: and before you say "so tell them you dont want to babysit them"
> You tell that to a 6 year old who calls you her "best friend" and gets so excited when you come over that she sits in the window [lol]



d'awww


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## Lobar (Sep 2, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> Honestly, though, with his IQ and interests currently, I'm predicting he'll become an engineer (aka Uber Nerd),which means he'll never get laid either way it goes. :V



nerds are sexy now though and actually have been for some time

einstein was a notorious pimp daddy


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## moonchylde (Sep 3, 2011)

Lobar said:


> nerds are sexy now though and actually have been for some time
> 
> einstein was a notorious pimp daddy



OK, how about this: I hope he waits until after he's established and educated before he becomes a fucking man-whore. Nerds get with nerds, nerds with money get with supermodels. :V Besides, I just don't want him knocking some chick up when he's fifteen, which (excluding myself) seems to be the norm in my family. 

I almost hope he is gay, just so that problem can be avoided. That, and free interior decorating. :V


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## Volkodav (Sep 3, 2011)

Tycho said:


> d'awww


ya its cute
she picks flowers with me and I find her bird feathers


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## Bliss (Sep 3, 2011)

Tycho said:


> what
> 
> why
> 
> is this some sort of Finnish humor joke thing


It is not. 

I AM YOUR OFFSRPING.



moonchylde said:


> I almost hope he is gay, just so that problem can be avoided. That, and free interior decorating. :V


Introduce him to furry. That'll do. :V


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## Shark_the_raptor (Sep 3, 2011)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Be emotionally supportive of them if they wanted a sex change when they grew up? Or became gay or lesbian?
> 
> 
> In all honesty, I would. Simple as that, I'd still be supportive of their decisions and sexuality wouldn't be an issue with me.



I wouldn't care what their sexuality is.  However, if they wanted a sex change, that would take some time to get used to.


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## moonchylde (Sep 3, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> Introduce him to furry. That'll do. :V



Good gods, I want to keep him from reproducing, not destroy his soul entirely!


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## Telnac (Sep 4, 2011)

If my son's an adult & want to become a woman, I would find it to be pretty strange (especially since he's all about being masculine now) but ultimately, the decision's his and not mine.  Disowning him or doing something equally stupid would only drive a wedge between us, possibly permanently.  Better to say "I don't understand your choice, but I stand by your right to make it" than to lose your child entirely!


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## Sar (Sep 6, 2011)

When they move out, they can do whatever the hell they want.


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## CannonFodder (Sep 6, 2011)

moonchylde said:


> Good gods, I want to keep him from reproducing, not destroy his soul entirely!


Introduce him to W.O.W. then, fifteen dollars a month is a price well paid to keep your kid from reproducing.


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## Telnac (Sep 6, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Introduce him to W.O.W. then, fifteen dollars a month is a price well paid to keep your kid from reproducing.


I dunno, I think WoW addiction is pretty much the same thing as having one's soul destroyed.


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## Browder (Sep 6, 2011)

I'd be fine with whatever and If my child needed help paying for their sex change I'd contribute as much as I could within my means although I'd probably never understand it entirely. If they were my child I'd raise them to believe that gender traits should mostly be optional anyway. :/


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## Mikesta~ (Dec 4, 2011)

I'd be ok with their sexuality and wouldn't mind having their partner over for
breakfast or something (breakfast thing is a sorta tradition in my family.)
But the sex change, I would sit them down about it, and just ask them and
discuss the reasons behind the sex change. It isn't something I'd do personally,
so it seems strange thinking about it. But yeah, the sexuality thing I'd be ok with.


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## TreacleFox (Dec 4, 2011)

.


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## Nineteen-TwentySeven (Dec 4, 2011)

TreacleFox said:


> What?


It's a newbie necro. Just ignore it, and if you value your mental capability, don't try to make sense of it.


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## Fay V (Dec 4, 2011)

necro closed.
just a reminder, replying to a necro may be considered spam, just report and move on.


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