# Diversity and Equality in The Furry Fandom:



## Mr Insanity (Apr 20, 2017)

I want to help out within The Fandom to promote diversity and equality like the shyest wolffox (@shy_matsi) | Twitter started/did #FurryBlackHistoryMonth hashtag on Twitter ,Userpage of suntattoowolf -- Fur Affinity [dot] net started/did #FemaleFursuiterMonth hashtag on Twitter and Drake Kilchii (@DraketheFox) | Twitter (I think) who started #FemaleFurryMonth hashtag on Twitter . So firstly I thinking about putting a sort of calendar/list together stating each month or something similar each theme(s). Anyway, so far we got #FurryBlackHistoryMonth on every February. #FemaleFursuiterMonth/#FemaleFurryMonth on every March. That what we got so far, and I think we need more similar things to promote diversity and equality. So here the link to the calendar/list: docs.google.com: Diversity and Equality in The Furry Fandom: . So anyone got any suggestions?

*(And I would like some people to spread this thread, if you want to; because I want this to get noticed.)


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

I'm already predicting the FAF members that will respond to this thread. haha.
On topic though, ah, indifferent. My perception of equality is judgment through character rather than a recognition of what's between your legs or skin color. I think your intent is noble and well meaning however.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

Good ideas, but get rid of "Furry Black History Month". And identity politics. That crap's not needed, and only serve to further divide people into gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality, +++.

We want equality, diversity and equity, but most importantly, mutual respect. If you can't respect someone who is completely different than you, the very least you are obliged to tolerate them.

Do not judge a person solely on their political views. Politics for a person is often only 1% at most to any given individual. Exceptions are bound to occur who are more than 1% politics.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Apr 20, 2017)

Uh, yeah! Of course! I'm transgender and a bisexual.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> I'm already predicting the FAF members that will respond to this thread. haha.
> On topic though, ah, indifferent. My perception of equality is judgment through character rather than a recognition of what's between your legs or skin color. I think your intent is noble and well meaning however.


Was I on your prediction list?


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Was I on your prediction list?


That's a potentially loaded question, depending on the intent you read into my message.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> That's a potentially loaded question.


Lol.... I was just curious, because I've only been around for about a month. I sort of wanted to know how notorious I was already.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Lol.... I was just curious, because I've only been around for about a month. I sort of wanted to know how notorious I was already.



I was mainly referring to the the non-pc FAF guys in a playfully joking sort of way.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> I was mainly referring to the the non-pc FAF guys in a playfully joking sort of way.


Oh...


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## sbm1990 (Apr 20, 2017)

I'm just bisexual. =3 Honestly, sexual orientation isn't really a big deal anymore. I'm racist against backstabbers, pedophiles, sociopaths, and douchebags. Everyone else is welcome though. It's the individual that should be judged, not the demographic.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> That's a potentially loaded question, depending on the intent you read into my message.


I am going to assume I am on that list because, well, this is my type of topic.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Apr 20, 2017)

sbm1990 said:


> I'm just bisexual. =3 Honestly, sexual orientation isn't really a big deal anymore. I'm racist against backstabbers, pedophiles, sociopaths, and douchebags. Everyone else is welcome though. It's the individual that should be judged, not the demographic.


What about how I'm transgender?


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Lol.... I was just curious, because I've only been around for about a month. I sort of wanted to know how notorious I was already.



I do find myself pondering the same thing, but through a more self conscious lens, because I am a  pathetic person.


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## sbm1990 (Apr 20, 2017)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> What about how I'm transgender?



My little like describes how I feel about that. ;3


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## FluffyShutterbug (Apr 20, 2017)

sbm1990 said:


> My little like describes how I feel about that. ;3


Ah.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> I am going to assume I am on that list because, well, this is my type of topic.


Well your past history has proven you have a very strong stance on the issue. When I saw the thread I was considering how you might reply to this thread and how tough a stance you were going  in with. hah


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> Well your past history has proven you have a very strong stance on the issue. When I saw the thread I was considering how you might reply to this thread and how tough a stance you were going  in with. hah


Well, a forum is in essence a means for exchange of ideas, opinions, interests, +++, although that purpose often gets squandered and lost on people. Sometimes, people need a reminder on what forums usually are meant for: Socializing and civil discussion and connectivity, although it can and will escalate into territory that is unacceptable(I've done that shit myself, and gotten rightly punished for it, as according to the FA/FAF rules).

Identity politics is already on its way out anyway, so there's not much of a concern on my side in the first place, on that front anyway.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Well, a forum is in essence a means for exchange of ideas, opinions, interests, +++, although that purpose often gets squandered and lost on people. Sometimes, people need a reminder on what forums usually are meant for: Socializing and civil discussion and connectivity, although it can and will escalate into territory that is unacceptable(I've done that shit myself, and gotten rightly punished for it, as according to the FA/FAF rules).
> 
> Identity politics is already on its way out anyway, so there's not much of a concern on my side in the first place, on that front anyway.



I'm not questioning that. It's more you post enough and I know your forum persona enough to surmise you're probably going to have a few words about the topic. It wasn't meant to be disparaging of the stance, just a harmless joke. Personally feel like I'd be repeating myself if I had to represent a similar stance more than a couple times, but then again I don't think I have the same passion about stuff like that.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> I'm not questioning that. It's more you post enough and I know your forum persona enough to surmise you're probably going to have a few words about the topic. It wasn't meant to be disparaging of the stance, just a harmless joke. Personally feel like I'd be repeating myself if I had to represent a similar stance more than a couple times, but then again I don't think I have the same passion about stuff like that.


I love jokes, bruh.

What you could do, is try and reduce the amount of words used? Or use different words? Try different wording and/or sentence structuring?


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> I love jokes, bruh.
> 
> What you could do, is try and reduce the amount of words used? Or use different words? Try different wording and/or sentence structuring?



I think the big complaint a lot of people have when I debate something is that I sound like verbose English guy and that I come of like a pretentious twat. Which isn't far from the truth.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> I think the big complaint a lot of people have when I debate something is that I sound like verbose English guy and that I come of like a pretentious twat. Which isn't far from the truth.


Well, SOME people have to sound like pretentious twats, you pretentious twat.  

Joking aside, it might be how you word things? I don't know. Personally at least, I didn't get that kind of vibe from talking with you.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Well, SOME people have to sound like pretentious twats, you pretentious twat.
> 
> Joking aside, it might be how you word things? I don't know. Personally at least, I didn't get that kind of vibe from talking with you.



I've seen two users mock me for the vocabulary I use, which is fine, I'm not going to get huffy over that, but it does indicate there is a dissonance and/or awkwardness with the impression I make. I'm disinclined to conclude it's how I word things. I feel confident in how I phrase myself and the language I use to convey myself, though I could be just blissfully unaware, that's always a possibility.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> I've seen two users mock me for the vocabulary I use, which is fine, I'm not going to get huffy over that, but it does indicate there is a dissonance or awkwardness with the impression I make. I'm disinclined to conclude it's how I word things. I feel confident in how I phrase myself and the language I use to convey myself, though I could be just blissfully unaware, that's always a possibility.


Words is our best and worst way of expressing ourselves. Be it an idea, philosophically, emotionally, or other ways/forms.

In order to properly express oneself you first need the words and proper sentence structure for it, and those words may not be available to you in your vocabulary at the time you're expressing yourself. You may learn and understand words later on, that you intended to use to express yourself previously. That has happened to me a lot of times, especially in the recent months.

If you express yourself poorly through words(could be anything from poor choice of words to not knowing the proper terms and definitions at the time), what you want to express, and how you are seen as expressing it, come off as completely different.

Words is our only good way of communicating with one another, as we don't have telepathy.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Words is our best and worst way of expressing ourselves. Be it an idea, philosophically, emotionally, or other ways/forms.
> 
> In order to properly express oneself you first need the words and proper sentence structure for it, and those words may not be available to you in your vocabulary at the time you're expressing yourself. You may learn and understand words later on, that you intended to use to express yourself previously. That has happened to me a lot of times, especially in the recent months.
> 
> ...



Yes, that's all true, but you know, I don't really see myself failing to understand that, you could always provide examples if you don't agree, but you're actually confusing me. I don't see myself failing to do that.

This is also getting way off topic, so you can PM me for the sake of the threads integrity.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 20, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> Yes, that's all true, but you know, I don't really see myself failing to understand that, you could always provide examples if you don't agree, but you're actually confusing me. I don't see myself failing to do that.


Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying you're doing it. It's just a general statement. 

Words is the only way for people to properly communicate. And sometimes you may use the wrong words than what you intended to use, the wrong context of the words, etc.

A suggestion would be to read through your replies at least once, to see the full context of the reply, if you don't already. Who knows, you might notice a word or two that could be replaced with something better and more defining on how you want to express yourself.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 21, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying you're doing it. It's just a general statement.
> 
> Words is the only way for people to properly communicate. And sometimes you may use the wrong words than what you intended to use, the wrong context of the words, etc.
> 
> A suggestion would be to read through your replies at least once, to see the full context of the reply, if you don't already. Who knows, you might notice a word or two that could be replaced with something better and more defining on how you want to express yourself.



Right well I'll just end with this train of thought, this is getting way off topic. 95% of the time, I've used the right word in the right context. There may be an outlier here or there, but generally I don't agree. The worst I've done is used a word in the context of it's third generally used definition. The vocabulary can be excessive, granted but I think that's the worst I've done.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 21, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> Right well I'll just end with this train of thought. 95% of the time, I've used the right word in the right context. There may be an outlier here or there, but generally I don't agree. The worst I've done is used a word in the context of it's third generally used definition. The vocabulary can be excessive, granted but I think that's the worst I've done.


Yeah. Everyone's different, and so is their level and ability to communicate, understand and interpret what is being said/written.

Even if you use the right words in the right context, someone else may misinterpret and/or misunderstand it. And this is where I'd say a decent amount of misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation happens. If and when this happens, it's important to ask and/or notify the other party of a misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation, so it can be cleared up.

And thus it's important to be concise, and properly define what you intend to express. We only have words and language to go by.


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## Casey Fluffbat (Apr 21, 2017)

I don't mind if people host these sort of things, but they need to keep in mind that the fandom wasn't really founded to parade specific groups of people, but rather be a collective of people who happen to like the same thing. People's will and opportunity to join a fandom and come together is the best part, as it represents everyone.


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## KimberVaile (Apr 21, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Yeah. Everyone's different, and so is their level and ability to communicate, understand and interpret what is being said/written.
> 
> Even if you use the right words in the right context, someone else may misinterpret and/or misunderstand it. And this is where I'd say a decent amount of misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation happens. If and when this happens, it's important to ask and/or notify the other party of a misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation, so it can be cleared up.
> 
> And thus it's important to be concise, and properly define what you intend to express. We only have words and language to go by.



This really isn't a fair position to argue about my personal character traits, I'm looking like a dickhead for replying to a thread about diversity and equality trying to defend my position, hence I'd prefer to have this done over somewhere that isn't this thread. 

With that said. It's on the reader if they don't understand my vocabulary. My vocabulary can be excessive, but it's also more expressive.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Apr 21, 2017)

There is already difursity and equality in the furry fandom, what some people need to do is drop that sense of entitlement they have so it can flourish.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm gone for like 4 hours.



Yakamaru said:


> Good ideas, but get rid of "Furry Black History Month". And identity politics. That crap's not needed, and only serve to further divide people into gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality, +++.
> 
> We want equality, diversity and equity, but most importantly, mutual respect. If you can't respect someone who is completely different than you, the very least you are obliged to tolerate them.
> 
> Do not judge a person solely on their political views. Politics for a person is often only 1% at most to any given individual. Exceptions are bound to occur who are more than 1% politics.



That last part. You have no idea how much that made me reflect and realize how right you are.



KimberVaile said:


> I've seen two users mock me for the vocabulary I use, which is fine, I'm not going to get huffy over that, but it does indicate there is a dissonance and/or awkwardness with the impression I make. I'm disinclined to conclude it's how I word things. I feel confident in how I phrase myself and the language I use to convey myself, though I could be just blissfully unaware, that's always a possibility.



Some would call that scraping the bottom of the barrel. If that's all they got then you are doing a good job.


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## Arwing Ace (Apr 21, 2017)

No. 

There's enough of this nonsense already going around on all the college campuses.


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## Jarren (Apr 21, 2017)

Meh, I don't think it's really needed. Kind of an interesting idea, but I think you'll have difficulty really filling out your schedule without having to delve into the realms of absurd specifics. But hey, you wanna do it? Go nuts.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 21, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> This really isn't a fair position to argue about my personal character traits, I'm looking like a dickhead for replying to a thread about diversity and equality trying to defend my position, hence I'd prefer to have this done over somewhere that isn't this thread.
> 
> With that said. It's on the reader if they don't understand my vocabulary. My vocabulary can be excessive, but it's also more expressive.


Oh. I am pretty sure you're completely mistaking me, mate. 

I am not referring to you specifically with what I am saying. It's a generalization based upon observation of humans in general, and thrown in some basic knowledge I've scraped together. This is not an argument against your position, it's in a way, I don't know, trying to explain it? Guess I failed. My apologies.

The two people you mentioned may get the wrong impression of you, which quite frankly, I think might be the reason they called you a pretentious twat in the first place. Could be how you express yourself, and how they perceive you. There is nothing wrong with your vocabulary, nor is there anything wrong with how you express yourself. I quite like it to be honest, as it's expressive, although I do disagree with you on some topics, obviously.



> Some would call that scraping the bottom of the barrel. If that's all they got then you are doing a good job.


^ leat put it perfectly, mate. If someone's got nothing but be petty as hell as mocking someone's vocabulary, I'd say you're perfectly fine.



Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> That last part. You have no idea how much that made me reflect and realize how right you are.


My interaction with certain people made me realize this around like August last year, but not really think about it mentioning it until like, a couple weeks ago?


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## quoting_mungo (Apr 21, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Anyway, so far we got #FurryBlackHistoryMonth on every February. #FemaleFursuiterMonth/#FemaleFurryMonth on every March. That what we got so far, and I think we need more similar things to promote diversity and equality.


I think you need to further consider what you mean to say by this. ShyMatsi's #FurryBlackHistoryMonth is putting a furry slant on the existing Black History Month thing already existing in February. It's not... really saying much about fandom, as such, nor making any implications about the makeup of fandom.

Contrast #FemaleFurryMonth - that's suggesting by its very existence that women are such a minority in fandom that they need a leg up and can't stand on their own. This while several big-name artists in fandom happen to be women. The implication here is that women are a delicate minority that needs special attention. If that's a message you're comfortable with, great, you do you. I'm personally not keen.

If you want to do something like this, consider where fandom is currently at, in terms of diversity and equality, and work from there. What do we _need_ to spread awareness of? What benefits do you ultimately want fandom to see from this? You're unlikely to significantly shift fandom makeup. You may be able, best case, to shift what content is produced and what ideas are exchanged, to some degree.

Maybe you want "Promote an unknown furry artist" month, to help new artists gain some traction and thus increase the variety in the popular artwork. Maybe you want #FurryWritersMonth, possibly in October, when the Nobel Literature Laureate is awarded, to promote diversity in media within fandom. I don't know, since I can't really suss out what exactly you're trying to accomplish.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 21, 2017)

You want equity, not full-blown equality and there's really not much you _can _do.


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## JumboWumbo (Apr 21, 2017)

I don't see you're trying to accomplish by singling out different races and genders. We just like cartoon animals, man.


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## Jarren (Apr 21, 2017)

JumboWumbo said:


> I don't see you're trying to accomplish by singling out different races and genders. We just like cartoon animals, man.


Especially considering most fandom members don't really bring their race/gender/religion/heritage into the public eye very often. Seems like it might draw more attention to things which are not or ought not be issues in the fandom.


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> I'm already predicting the FAF members that will respond to this thread. haha.
> On topic though, ah, indifferent. My perception of equality is judgment through character rather than a recognition of what's between your legs or skin color. I think your intent is noble and well meaning however.



I appreciate your opinion, and I sort of agree with you. However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or just he is a asshole: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .

(Sorry, for swearing.)


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Good ideas, but get rid of "Furry Black History Month". And identity politics. That crap's not needed, and only serve to further divide people into gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality, +++.
> 
> We want equality, diversity and equity, but most importantly, mutual respect. If you can't respect someone who is completely different than you, the very least you are obliged to tolerate them.
> 
> Do not judge a person solely on their political views. Politics for a person is often only 1% at most to any given individual. Exceptions are bound to occur who are more than 1% politics.



I appreciate your opinion, and I sort of agree with you. Yeah we need to stop trying to politicalising the furry fandom, I mean the Alt-Furries, Antiafurries and other similar people need to shut up. I been honestly, we need to stop being actually sexist, racist, sexualism and just being offensive in the furry fandom, and in fact outside the furry fandom. Anyway, you need to talk to Shy_Matsi: the shyest wolffox (@shy_matsi) | Twitter about The "Furry Black History Month"'s hashtag, he the one who created the hashtag not me. So sorry. Again, anyway, I do agree with trying to promote diversity and equality sort of though gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality and other similar things for non-political reasons at all. 

Yeah true. We all should be sort of mutual respect and tolerate each other because we are all essential the same, not hating each other and trying to injuring/killing each other for no reason/stupid reason such as again because their gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality and other similar things.

Again, true. Which I don't do that. I do judge everyone else though their behaviour. Never, though gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality, politics and other similar things, and I wish they were more people doing that, well in fact everyone should be doing that.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> I appreciate your opinion, and I sort of agree with you. However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or just he is a asshole:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most of us swear like a sailor mate


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Uh, yeah! Of course! I'm transgender and a bisexual.



Ok.

By the way me and DaiCymru: Userpage of daicymru -- Fur Affinity [dot] net , has created The Furry LGBT History Month/#FurryLGBTMonth; and this is on every October.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Ok.
> 
> By the way me and DaiCymru: Userpage of daicymru -- Fur Affinity [dot] net , has created The Furry LGBT History Month/#FurryLGBTMonth; and this is on every October.



That's kind of not really needed for the furry fandom. ~60 - 70% of the fandom is gay and/or bi with the rest being straight and ~3% room for error


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

sbm1990 said:


> I'm just bisexual. =3 Honestly, sexual orientation isn't really a big deal anymore. I'm racist against backstabbers, pedophiles, sociopaths, and douchebags. Everyone else is welcome though. It's the individual that should be judged, not the demographic.



Ok, which I think everyone should be against backstabbers, pedophile, sociopaths, and just particularly any type of assholes. I think you mean you against not racist, because that doesn't make any sense at all. LOL. Indeed, everyone else is welcome and should be accepted including non-furries. 

Which I do that, I do judge people though individual, not demographic and  other similar things because that just stupid to judge people though that.


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Well, a forum is in essence a means for exchange of ideas, opinions, interests, +++, although that purpose often gets squandered and lost on people. Sometimes, people need a reminder on what forums usually are meant for: Socializing and civil discussion and connectivity, although it can and will escalate into territory that is unacceptable(I've done that shit myself, and gotten rightly punished for it, as according to the FA/FAF rules).
> 
> Identity politics is already on its way out anyway, so there's not much of a concern on my side in the first place, on that front anyway.



Yeah indeed. Forum is in essence a means for exchange of ideas, opinions, interest and other similar things, well that was particularly the whole internet, but most of The internet lost it ways. True we all should be socialising, have civil discussion and be connectivity toward, then having uncivil discussion and other similar things. 

Sort of me too.


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Words is our best and worst way of expressing ourselves. Be it an idea, philosophically, emotionally, or other ways/forms.
> 
> In order to properly express oneself you first need the words and proper sentence structure for it, and those words may not be available to you in your vocabulary at the time you're expressing yourself. You may learn and understand words later on, that you intended to use to express yourself previously. That has happened to me a lot of times, especially in the recent months.
> 
> ...



I agree with you. We, everyone always improving ourselves though time, nobody is that prefect, we all make mistakes all the time.


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

MadKiyo said:


> I don't mind if people host these sort of things, but they need to keep in mind that the fandom wasn't really founded to parade specific groups of people, but rather be a collective of people who happen to like the same thing. People's will and opportunity to join a fandom and come together is the best part, as it represents everyone.



Yeah true. However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or he is an asshole: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Anyway, I do agree with trying to promote diversity and equality sort of through gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality and other similar things for non-political reasons, not for parade specific groups of people and other similar things at all. I just trying to remind people we are still humans and trying promote tolerance though The Furry Fandom.


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr. Fox said:


> There is already difursity and equality in the furry fandom, what some people need to do is drop that sense of entitlement they have so it can flourish.


Yeah true. However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or he is an asshole: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Anyway, I do agree with trying to promote diversity and equality sort of through gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality and other similar things for non-political reasons, not for parade specific groups of people and other similar things at all. I just trying to remind people we are still humans and trying promote tolerance though The Furry Fandom.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Yeah true. However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or he is an asshole:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What you can do is use the multi-quote function. Prevents too much clutter, and the forum might apply a reply restriction, depending on how fast and how often you post/reply.

<-- This git's currently under a reply/chat restriction. 

Try to quote several people who you want to reply to the same way, and then make a new reply for whatever else you want to reply to. The forum itself looks better, and it prevents your post the possibility of looking like spam for some people.

Just my $0.02.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> What you can do is use the multi-quote function. Prevents too much clutter, and the forum might apply a reply restriction, depending on how fast and how often you post/reply.
> 
> <-- This git's currently under a reply/chat restriction.
> 
> ...



You know that $0.02 will be more or less than 2 cents most anywhere in the world? You've gotta adjust for different currencies


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## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Shane McNair said:


> No.
> 
> There's enough of this nonsense already going around on all the college campuses.


LOL. I agree with that, even though I don't see that much happening in United Kingdom and other similar countries, because our politics are not that much stupid compare to United States of America and other similar countries's politics. Both sides, the leftists, the rightists and other similar people are stupid or/and assholes. They need to learn how to work together to Make America Great Again, then hating each other and trying to injuring/killing each other.  However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or he is an asshole: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Anyway, I do agree with trying to promote diversity and equality sort of through gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality and other similar things for non-political reasons, not for parade specific groups of people and other similar things at all. I just trying to remind people we are still humans and trying promote tolerance though The Furry Fandom.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> LOL. I agree with that, even though I don't see that much happening in United Kingdom and other similar countries, because our politics are not that much stupid compare to United States of America and other similar countries's politics. Both sides, the leftists, the rightists and other similar people are stupid or/and assholes. They need to learn how to work together to Make America Great Again, then hating each other and trying to injuring/killing each other.  However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or he is an asshole:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Repeating the same thing 10 times doesn't strengthen your argument. You do know this, right?


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Meh, I don't think it's really needed. Kind of an interesting idea, but I think you'll have difficulty really filling out your schedule without having to delve into the realms of absurd specifics. But hey, you wanna do it? Go nuts.



Oh ok and thank you.


----------



## KimberVaile (Apr 22, 2017)

Got to admit, had me going for a bit, thought this thread was legitimate, well played. Though the replies you made to the thread are cross between babby's first troll and a desperate plea for attention. Also, hi Furry Raiders.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> I think you need to further consider what you mean to say by this. ShyMatsi's #FurryBlackHistoryMonth is putting a furry slant on the existing Black History Month thing already existing in February. It's not... really saying much about fandom, as such, nor making any implications about the makeup of fandom.
> 
> Contrast #FemaleFurryMonth - that's suggesting by its very existence that women are such a minority in fandom that they need a leg up and can't stand on their own. This while several big-name artists in fandom happen to be women. The implication here is that women are a delicate minority that needs special attention. If that's a message you're comfortable with, great, you do you. I'm personally not keen.
> 
> ...



The "Furry Black History Month"'s hashtag thing, you really need to talk to Shy_Matsi: the shyest wolffox (@shy_matsi) | Twitter , about it because he the one who created it not me. So sorry. 

Also, The "FemaleFurryMonth"'s hashtag thing, yeah that the message I think I'm sort of trying to promote. However, I don't know if the person(s) who created #FemaeFurryMonth/#FemaleFursuiterMonth is giving the same message, maybe but I don't know for sure. 

Well what I'm trying to promote and what I want to have The Furry Fandom to see from this is have everyone treat each other fair, equality and tolerant each other in such as gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality, hobbies (Artists, writers and other similar things.), and other similar things.

Oh ok. I added The Furry Writers Month to the calendar/list but in November because to corresponding to The National Novel Writing Month: National Novel Writing Month - Wikipedia . Anyway, I'm agreeing to The "Promote an unknown furry artist"'s month, so what month it should be in? These are good suggestions.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> You want equity, not full-blown equality and there's really not much you _can _do.



Well, I appreciate the opinion, and I sort of agree. However, We have to wait to see. If anything will happen, hopeful good things will happen?


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

JumboWumbo said:


> I don't see you're trying to accomplish by singling out different races and genders. We just like cartoon animals, man.



I'm not trying do that, well sort of. That is not mainly reason why I'm doing this. The main reason I'm doing this is trying to just to promote equality and diversity in The Furry Fandom, and what I'm trying to promote and what I want to have The Furry Fandom to see from this is have everyone treat each other fair, equality and tolerant each other in such as gender, race, religion, skin colour, sexuality, hobbies (Artists, writers and other similar things.), and other similar things. 





> However, I think some of us forgotten we are still humans or/and started to be bit/completely intolerance for example Foxler Nightlife or he is an asshole:


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Especially considering most fandom members don't really bring their race/gender/religion/heritage into the public eye very often. Seems like it might draw more attention to things which are not or ought not be issues in the fandom.



Again, I appreciate your opinion, and it's true. However, it's seemed to be the majority of people and lot of people seemed to think this is ok, what it look like on the poll and on twitter so far. I'm trying to be unanimously/neutral about it. However, I'm always bit more for the majority because they are majority, I have to be sort of fair for them.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> That's kind of not really needed for the furry fandom. ~60 - 70% of the fandom is gay and/or bi with the rest being straight and ~3% room for error



Oh ok. I will talk to DaiCymru: Userpage of daicymru -- Fur Affinity [dot] net about that, and you should talked to him about it aswell, because I'm not really the one who created. It's was DaiCymru who created and suggested it to me. So sorry.


----------



## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Oh ok. I will talk to DaiCymru: Userpage of daicymru -- Fur Affinity [dot] net about that, and you should talked to him about it aswell, because I'm not really the one who created. It's was DaiCymru who created and suggested it to me. So sorry.


Too much effort for something I don't care for


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Most of us swear like a sailor mate


Oh ok. In fairness, I was going say something "more worst", I was going about say the C-word. However, one of the forum's rule preventing me to say that word: 





> *Keep the Forums Friendly*
> 
> Keep the forums friendly and open to everyone by keeping your posts to a PG-13 rating.


.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> What you can do is use the multi-quote function. Prevents too much clutter, and the forum might apply a reply restriction, depending on how fast and how often you post/reply.
> 
> <-- This git's currently under a reply/chat restriction.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the tip. I'm still new to this.


----------



## Arcturus Maple (Apr 22, 2017)

Why make diversity months segregating people by sex, sexuality, skin color, eating habits, or foot size? This is the furry fandom! There is such a range of fascinations we encompass that the only thing you need to be one of us is a liking for animal features in some context. Pointing out differences can only drive us apart, so single out those things like bigotry if you don't want to be associated with them, but don't factionize our fandom, please.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Repeating the same thing 10 times doesn't strengthen your argument. You do know this, right?


I know. I was just replying to the other replies I got before this, and before finding out about the multiple quotes feature. I'm sort of still new to this. So sorry.


----------



## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> I know. I was just replying to the other replies I got before this, and before finding out about the multiple quotes feature. I'm sort of still new to this. So sorry.



Yeah I realized that a bit after


Arcturus Maple said:


> Why make diversity months segregating people by sex, sexuality, skin color, eating habits, or foot size? This is the furry fandom! There is such a range of fascinations we encompass that the only thing you need to be one of us is a liking for animal features in some context. Pointing out differences can only drive us apart, so single out those things like bigotry if you don't want to be associated with them, but don't factionize our fandom, please.


Why not animal appreciation week? Either the general family like felidae and canidae or more specific like owls and cougers.

Or just make every day bird appreciation day


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> Got to admit, had me going for a bit, thought this thread was legitimate, well played. Though the replies you made to the thread are cross between babby's first troll and a desperate plea for attention. Also, hi Furry Raiders.


LOL. This is a legitimate. Sorry, for repeating myself with the same thing few times. I'm sort of still new to this, I just figured out the multiple quote feature. I should said I'm not troll or I'm not a attention whore, those people are annoying as hell. I sort of hate The Furry Raiders, well because of him, I felt sorry for them due the fact he screwing up the group. So sorry, again.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Too much effort for something I don't care for


Oh ok. Never mind, you don't really need to talk to him then.


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Or just make every day bird appreciation day


LMAO = Lets Marvel At Owls!


----------



## Pipistrele (Apr 22, 2017)

Is hating everyone regardless of race or sexuality diverse and equal enough? .o.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Arcturus Maple said:


> Why make diversity months segregating people by sex, sexuality, skin color, eating habits, or foot size? This is the furry fandom! There is such a range of fascinations we encompass that the only thing you need to be one of us is a liking for animal features in some context. Pointing out differences can only drive us apart, so single out those things like bigotry if you don't want to be associated with them, but don't factionize our fandom, please.


I appreciate the opinion, and I sort of disagree because I don't think this is sort of bigotry, in my opinion. We have our rights to say whatever we want and whatever we want to do and while being tolerating each other, which I think some people need to learn. I mean, I'm particularly saying, you have the right to agree or disagree, take part or don't take part, while being civilised not being a asshole about it. So please, appreciate my opinions also.


----------



## KimberVaile (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> LOL. This is a legitimate. Sorry, for repeating myself with the same thing few times. I'm sort of still new to this, I just figured out the multiple quote feature. I should said I'm not troll or I'm not a attention whore, those people are annoying as hell. I sort of hate The Furry Raiders, well because of him, I felt sorry for them due the fact he screwing up the group. So sorry, again.



Did the usual wells run dry for you all? Reckon you got to find your controversy somewhere, seems like an act of desperation to try the FAF though, can't say I would have expected your group to end up here of all places.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Yeah I realized that a bit after
> 
> Why not animal appreciation week? Either the general family like felidae and canidae or more specific like owls and cougers.
> 
> Or just make every day bird appreciation day


Oh ok. "I'm guessing this is not real suggestion? If yes, LOL." I'm just making sure.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

Pipistrele said:


> Is hating everyone regardless of race or sexuality diverse and equal enough? .o.


Well yeah, hating everyone is somewhat equal. LOL.


----------



## Mr Insanity (Apr 22, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> Did the usual wells run dry for you all? Reckon you got to find your controversy somewhere, seems like an act of desperation to try the FAF though, can't say I would have expected your group to end up here of all places.



LOL. Keep saying and believe in your views about me. I can't not force you to change your's opinions about me, its your right. I been honestly, I don't really care what people think about me, and this is applied to everyone else.


----------



## KimberVaile (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> LOL. Keep saying and believe stuff like about me. I can't not force you to change your's opinions about me, its your right. I been honestly, I don't really care what people think about me, and this is applied to everyone else.



It's ok, you'll mature out of this Furry Raiders crap eventually.


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 22, 2017)

I remember coming across furry black history month and female fursuiter month earlier this year on twitter. 

I mostly enjoyed seeing fursuiters post a little bit of extra information about themselves that I didn't know about; a surprising number were research scientists or dancers, for example. 
I can well understand why people who belong to minorities in the fandom are interested in finding others who they have stuff in common with.


----------



## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 22, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Oh ok. "I'm guessing this is not real suggestion? If yes, LOL." I'm just making sure.



It's better than something that does nothing but division.


And praising birds all day makes everyone happy so either one works


----------



## Sagt (Apr 22, 2017)

If this thread is genuine and not a troll thread, then I think it's very well intentioned. However, like the other people are saying, I think you're doing this in a bad way and also marketing it to the wrong set of people. I can agree that diversity and equality are great and all, but what relevance does this have to a fandom about anthropomorphic animals? 

By the way, it's not necessary to reply to every post someone makes on this thread.


----------



## JumboWumbo (Apr 22, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Yeah I realized that a bit after
> 
> Why not animal appreciation week? Either the general family like felidae and canidae or more specific like owls and cougers.
> 
> Or just make every day bird appreciation day



What about Weasel Wednesdays?


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 22, 2017)

JumboWumbo said:


> What about Weasel Wednesdays?


Wolf Fridays?


----------



## biscuitfister (Apr 22, 2017)

Huskies shall rule the world one derpy face at a time


----------



## JumboWumbo (Apr 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Wolf Fridays?


Mustelid Mondays.

Weasel Wednesdays.

Ferret Fridays.

We'll have the whole week all to ourselves :3


----------



## Troj (Apr 22, 2017)

So, we know that the fandom is predominantly white, predominantly male, and overwhelmingly LGBT, and theories abound as to why this is so.

Personally, I like the idea of trying to make people feel welcome and included--and that includes (but isn't limited to) showing that we draw a hard line at harassment, bullying, and bigotry.

I generally like the idea of giving people the means to find each other, too, and realize that they're not alone. The Furry Black History Month and Furry Women hashtags were good for that, I think.

Other than that, I can't think of anything at the moment. Certainly, we need to be mindful about how we go about trying to promote diversity or equality, because there are productive ways and unproductive ways to go about that. When it comes to equality, you don't want to create a "Harrison Bergeron"-type environment, and when it comes to diversity, you don't want people to feel like "tokens" who were included _only_ to meet a quota or to make the nice liberals feel good. 

As for identity politics, they are _never _going away, because humans will always feel compelled to label themselves and each other, and then sort themselves into groups based on those labels. I've noticed that people who think that _only_ minorities, liberals, or these-or-those people engage in "identity politics" tend to take their_ own_ identity for granted, because they see it as the default--but, when you threaten their social standing or identity, they resort to playing the game, too!


----------



## Jarren (Apr 23, 2017)

Troj said:


> When it comes to equality, you don't want to create a "Harrison Bergeron"-type environment, and when it comes to diversity, you don't want people to feel like "tokens" who were included _only_ to meet a quota or to make the nice liberals feel good.


You've hit the nail on the head about how I feel towards a lot of modern liberal proposals here. They either seem forced/ham handed, or patronizing to those they claim to be helping. It's a matter of (in my view) not presenting any unnecessary obstacle to anyone trying to involve themselves somewhere and encouraging people to go out of their comfort zones every now and then and learn something. You can't force people to change or truly legislate it, for good or ill, you can only encourage it.


----------



## Maximus B. Panda (Apr 26, 2017)

All furries are equal, but some furries are more equal than others.

As far as diversity goes, there will be diversity (unless you are talking about fursonas lol), but people will never learn to appreciate it and always try to separate into groups and fighting each other.


----------



## MikaKoinu (Apr 30, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> I want to help out within The Fandom to promote diversity and equality like the shyest wolffox (@shy_matsi) | Twitter started/did #FurryBlackHistoryMonth hashtag on Twitter ,Userpage of suntattoowolf -- Fur Affinity [dot] net started/did #FemaleFursuiterMonth hashtag on Twitter and Drake Kilchii (@DraketheFox) | Twitter (I think) who started #FemaleFurryMonth hashtag on Twitter . So firstly I thinking about putting a sort of calendar/list together stating each month or something similar each theme(s). Anyway, so far we got #FurryBlackHistoryMonth on every February. #FemaleFursuiterMonth/#FemaleFurryMonth on every March. That what we got so far, and I think we need more similar things to promote diversity and equality. So here the link to the calendar/list: docs.google.com: Diversity and Equality in The Furry Fandom: . So anyone got any suggestions?
> 
> *(And I would like some people to spread this thread, if you want to; because I want this to get noticed.)



- - -

I'm really glad to hear you would like to encourage diversity and equality in the fandom! You acting out on this already shows an example of why this community is accepting already.

Furries are generally open-minded and accepting in my opinion probably due to the fact our interests are not common and we know how it feels to be singled out from groups in the social "norm". The only real times I've seen arguing and hate in the fandom is when there is personal drama and jealousy between people. The fandom overall has been with open arms for as long as I can remember.. but hey, this is only my opinion and maybe your experiences have been negative (which I apologize if they have been!) 

As a few people in this thread have said, I don't know if singling out a race, gender, religion, or sexuality for a month or day etc will be beneficial to the community. It truly is more about positive attitude and supporting the people around you at all times. Everyday should be a day to be proud of who you are as a real person and as the person you see yourself as.

Hope my opinion could give you insight.. have a good day! ♡


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 30, 2017)

MikaKoinu said:


> - - -
> 
> I'm really glad to hear you would like to encourage diversity and equality in the fandom! You acting out on this already shows an example of why this community is accepting already.
> 
> ...


....Snapchat dog filter. Don't know how I feel about that. 

I don't have anything against labels themselves, as labels *can* be extremely useful in some cases. Sexuality, religion, gender, race, political ideology that you follow, etc. It's a good way to know some basics about you without going into details.

However, we don't need labels inside labels. Too many labels are being used. WAY too many.

And some people use those labels to divide people(or the very least, try to), and to enforce group/tribal mentality, or attempt to enforce it. This is something I've seen is coming mainly from the Left.

"Oh, you're a gay Liberal Leftist too? You must think or believe X, or you're not a TRUE gay Liberal Leftist, and you're with THEM!". "Oh, you're a Liberal but you voted for Trump? You're not a TRUE Liberal!".
^ A true Liberal doesn't give a shit, adheres to the NAP, and acknowledges everyone elses opinion, no matter who, what or what someone's opinion is, even if it's wrong.

Us vs them and group/tribal mentality is cancerous no matter where you're sitting. There is no us vs them. There is no us, and there is no them, either.


----------



## GreenReaper (Apr 30, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> There is no us, and there is no them, either.



Yes there is - and if you were truly one of us, you'd know that. But instead, you're clearly one of them!


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 30, 2017)

GreenReaper said:


> Yes there is - and if you were one of us, you'd know that. But instead, you're one of them!









He's one of THEM?!


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (Apr 30, 2017)

GreenReaper said:


> Yes there is - and if you were truly one of us, you'd know that. But instead, you're clearly one of them!





Yakamaru said:


> He's one of THEM?!


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 30, 2017)

Mr. Fox said:


>


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (Apr 30, 2017)

GreenReaper said:


> Yes there is - and if you were truly one of us, you'd know that. But instead, you're clearly one of them!





Yakamaru said:


>



This thread.


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 30, 2017)

Mr. Fox said:


> This thread.


Thread is docking like a sinking ship? 10/10 best way to dock. Don't have to worry about docking fees.

Jack trying to dodge responsibility like


----------



## Jarren (Apr 30, 2017)

Mr. Fox said:


>


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 30, 2017)

Jarren said:


>


----------



## quoting_mungo (May 1, 2017)

Seriously? Off-topic image memes? You've been here long enough to know better. Knock it off.


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

KimberVaile said:


> It's ok, you'll mature out of this Furry Raiders crap eventually.


I hope so. I tend to forget sometime.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> I remember coming across furry black history month and female fursuiter month earlier this year on twitter.
> 
> I mostly enjoyed seeing fursuiters post a little bit of extra information about themselves that I didn't know about; a surprising number were research scientists or dancers, for example.
> I can well understand why people who belong to minorities in the fandom are interested in finding others who they have stuff in common with.


Indeed. This what I mean it's just suppose be fun, interesting finding others with stuff in common with you and connecting with each other. Also, having bit of awareness we are still human, which I think some people need to learn. Those who trying to get politics involved in these things, they should be ignored because they being annoying asshole who thing "everything" to be involved with politics is important. I being honestly here, I'm sort of agreeing there should be a Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month to corresponding International's Men Day:International Men's Day - Wikipedia .If those who taking part of Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month, won't be actually assholes toward those who taking part of Furry Black History Month and Female Fursuiter Month/Female Furry Month. To make it neutral and fair for least everyone. In my opinion.

I'm just saying. There is a International men's Day/Male History Month, I think. So why there can be a White History Month, its sort of right now bit unfair and bit racist? I mean they being fair and neutral though gender and sort of other similar things but not race?

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> It's better than something that does nothing but division.
> 
> 
> And praising birds all day makes everyone happy so either one works


Yeah true there. Aswell, I sort of agree with you idea of animal appreciation week (or everyday), because everyone in The Furry Fandom love animals and make everyone happy, obviously, and mostly everyone outside of The Furry Fandom love animals and make everyone happy also.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## WolfNightV4X1 (May 1, 2017)

When is diversity/Equality ever a bad thing?

Just because you have one really, really leftist that hates all white people and uses xirself doesnt discount the entirety of...what is essentially a very, very good thing in society.


Furries just happen to be diverse and all for equality because the fanbase is open to a lot of art and presentation, same as any other fanbase. That's not to say racist/homophobic furs dont exist...


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Lcs said:


> If this thread is genuine and not a troll thread, then I think it's very well intentioned. However, like the other people are saying, I think you're doing this in a bad way and also marketing it to the wrong set of people. I can agree that diversity and equality are great and all, but what relevance does this have to a fandom about anthropomorphic animals?
> 
> By the way, it's not necessary to reply to every post someone makes on this thread.


Sort of Indeed and thank you. Yeah I do understand what everyone saying on this thread. I do take everyone opinions serious and I trying to make it fair for them and for everyone else. The reason why I think it relevance to The Furry Fandom is this 





> Indeed. This what I mean it's just suppose be fun, interesting finding others with stuff in common with you and connecting with each other. Also, having bit of awareness we are still human, which I think some people need to learn. Those who trying to get politics involved in these things, they should be ignored because they being annoying asshole who thing "everything" to be involved with politics is important. I being honestly here, I'm sort of agreeing there should be a Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month to corresponding International's Men Day:International Men's Day - Wikipedia .If those who taking part of Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month, won't be actually assholes toward those who taking part of Furry Black History Month and Female Fursuiter Month/Female Furry Month. To make it neutral and fair for least everyone. In my opinion.



Yeah I know. I just mostly don't like not replying/ignoring people posts because I just felt like its mostly ignorant to not reply.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

biscuitfister said:


> Huskies shall rule the world one derpy face at a time



LOL. "No you won't. We the folfs shall rule the world one mind f**k at a time."

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Troj said:


> So, we know that the fandom is predominantly white, predominantly male, and overwhelmingly LGBT, and theories abound as to why this is so.
> 
> Personally, I like the idea of trying to make people feel welcome and included--and that includes (but isn't limited to) showing that we draw a hard line at harassment, bullying, and bigotry.
> 
> ...



I fully agree with you. This what always was thinking about The Furry Black History Month, Female Fursuiter Month/Female Furry Month and other similar hashtags/events: 





> This what I mean it's just suppose be fun, interesting finding others with stuff in common with you and connecting with each other. Also, having bit of awareness we are still human, which I think some people need to learn. Those who trying to get politics involved in these things, they should be ignored because they being annoying asshole who thing "everything" to be involved with politics is important. I being honestly here, I'm sort of agreeing there should be a Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month to corresponding International's Men Day:International Men's Day - Wikipedia .If those who taking part of Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month, won't be actually assholes toward those who taking part of Furry Black History Month and Female Fursuiter Month/Female Furry Month. To make it neutral and fair for least everyone. In my opinion.


. 

Ok, take your time. Yeah indeed, that why I'm sort of done this thread is to give this some awareness and having a civilised debate about it. True, we need to be centre/neutral and make this fair and unbiased about it, not being one side for the leftists, rightists or other similar people.

Yeah too much double standard.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## biscuitfister (May 1, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> LOL. "No you won't. We the folfs shall rule the world one mind f**k at a time."
> 
> (Sorry, for the late reply.)


Flofs you mean peasants? We will use you as farmers and induatrial workers


----------



## Royn (May 1, 2017)

None shall rule any world.  Know why?  Know Why??  Finitety.  Thats why.


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Jarren said:


> You've hit the nail on the head about how I feel towards a lot of modern liberal proposals here. They either seem forced/ham handed, or patronizing to those they claim to be helping. It's a matter of (in my view) not presenting any unnecessary obstacle to anyone trying to involve themselves somewhere and encouraging people to go out of their comfort zones every now and then and learn something. You can't force people to change or truly legislate it, for good or ill, you can only encourage it.



I agree with you. The leftists and other similar people most of them are stupid assholes, they are mostly not improving anything at all, or making mostly everything else worst. Meanwhile The rightists and other similar people most of them just are assholes, they just making well again mostly everything else worst. Both sides are just making everything else worst. I been honestly, we need to work together to make the world great again, then hating and injuring/killing each other. Also, most/all proposals should be encouraging people not forcing it on people, because that is just violating their rights. Meanwhile, people should be mutual respecting each others, not hating people for stupid reason such as races, genders and other similar things.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Maximor_Bloodpanda said:


> All furries are equal, but some furries are more equal than others.
> 
> As far as diversity goes, there will be diversity (unless you are talking about fursonas lol), but people will never learn to appreciate it and always try to separate into groups and fighting each other.



I agree with you. All furries are equal, and we all should equal.

I know there is diversity in The Furry Fandom. I appreciate it, and I do sort of don't agree with separating into groups because it cause more problems but it's mostly impossible to stop it, so those who don't agree to it need to learn to not be asshole about it and fighting each other over this, and learn how to work together to make The Furry Fandom great again.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

MikaKoinu said:


> - - -
> 
> I'm really glad to hear you would like to encourage diversity and equality in the fandom! You acting out on this already shows an example of why this community is accepting already.
> 
> ...



Thank you and indeed. 

Yeah that is general arguing and hate in The Furry Fandom and mostly going happen, there is nothing much to stop it, because its mostly personal between people not the whole fandom. Meanwhile, I've seen some people in The Furry Fandom have been hating and intolerance to some people though race, gender, religion, sexuality and other similar things, and this does effect the whole fandom. It's seemed to be lot more happening now, in bit of a alarming rate. It's ok, but I should I said I never much have a negative experience in The Furry Fandom, in this sense.

Ok. This is my opinion about this: 





> This what I mean it's just suppose be fun, interesting finding others with stuff in common with you and connecting with each other. Also, having bit of awareness we are still human, which I think some people need to learn. Those who trying to get politics involved in these things, they should be ignored because they being annoying asshole who thing "everything" to be involved with politics is important. I being honestly here, I'm sort of agreeing there should be a Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month to corresponding International's Men Day:International Men's Day - Wikipedia .If those who taking part of Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month, won't be actually assholes toward those who taking part of Furry Black History Month and Female Fursuiter Month/Female Furry Month. To make it neutral and fair for least everyone. In my opinion.


.

Yeah it will and thank you, have a good day aswell.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> ....Snapchat dog filter. Don't know how I feel about that.
> 
> I don't have anything against labels themselves, as labels *can* be extremely useful in some cases. Sexuality, religion, gender, race, political ideology that you follow, etc. It's a good way to know some basics about you without going into details.
> 
> ...


I sort of agree with you. It's seemed to be if you are something what either most of the leftists or the rightists like, to most of those people and some other similar people, to them you automatically either a leftists or a rightists because of your views and other similar things. To most of them, there's no neutral/centre.

I should said, I'm a centrist/ bit of centrist-leftist. I possible would said I'm also I think mostly I'm a True Liberal because I don't care much about who is in power and other similar things, also I do mostly/all acknowledges everyone else opinion.

(Sorry, for the late reply.)


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> Seriously? Off-topic image memes? You've been here long enough to know better. Knock it off.


Yeah indeed. Please everyone tried to keep this on-topic.


----------



## Yakamaru (May 1, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> I sort of agree with you. It's seemed to be if you are something what either most of the leftists or the rightists like, to most of those people and some other similar people, to them you automatically either a leftists or a rightists because of your views and other similar things. To most of them, there's no neutral/centre.
> 
> I should said, I'm a centrist/ bit of centrist-leftist. I possible would said I'm also I think mostly I'm a True Liberal because I don't care much about who is in power and other similar things, also I do mostly/all acknowledges everyone else opinion.
> 
> (Sorry, for the late reply.)


I'm a Centrist myself as well, though I am leaning slightly to the Right. Because in its current state, fuck the Left. Gotta thank ANTIFA, BLM, SJW's and the cancer that is third-wave feminism for turning me more Right-wing.

I've been called a godless Satan-worshipping baby murdering soulless demon by religious people on the Right.
I've been called a sexist fascist racist mysogynistic neo-Nazi by Regressives on the Left.
^ Got way, way more examples of crap like this. And they are not limited to religious people, nor Regressives.

None of that crap is true. And boy is it fun to watch people literally do zero research nor actually ask about my view on shit. Sometimes my chair's temporary vacant of my butt due to laughing.


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

WolfNightV4X1 said:


> When is diversity/Equality ever a bad thing?
> 
> Just because you have one really, really leftist that hates all white people and uses xirself doesnt discount the entirety of...what is essentially a very, very good thing in society.
> 
> ...


Yeah indeed.

Most of the leftists and sort of the rightists are hypocrite, ignorant assholes.


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

biscuitfister said:


> Flofs you mean peasants? We will use you as farmers and induatrial workers


"I'm not your or any of my species is your peasants. You will became our peasants when we get in power. No I'm joking, I'm not a asshole."


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 1, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> I'm a Centrist myself as well, though I am leaning slightly to the Right. Because in its current state, fuck the Left. Gotta thank ANTIFA, BLM, SJW's and the cancer that is third-wave feminism for turning me more Right-wing.
> 
> I've been called a godless Satan-worshipping baby murdering soulless demon by religious people on the Right.
> I've been called a sexist fascist racist mysogynistic neo-Nazi by Regressives on the Left.
> ...


Oh ok. Yeah I think complete in the centre because I some time goes left-wing "maybe bit far-left", and at the same time right-wing "maybe bit far-right", I don't know for sure.

Oh the usual naming calling. I sort of can beat that. I been called a Nazi because I sort of support Communism, by a Polish I think a Far-rightist Polish.

Yeah indeed. I do my own researches and other similar things, but why these people can do their own researches and other similar things. Isn't that hard do it. Seriously, in my opinion, politics today is a joke and that why I don't take it seriously anymore most of time.


----------



## Deleted member 82554 (May 2, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> Seriously? Off-topic image memes? You've been here long enough to know better. Knock it off.


I actually have a humorous and relevant response to this, but I get the feeling you'll take offense and won't see the humor. Alas, such a shame to waste a good post...


----------



## biscuitfister (May 2, 2017)

Mr. Fox said:


> I actually have a humorous and relevant response to this, but I get the feeling you'll take offense and won't see the humor. Alas, such a shame to waste a good post...


I liked yalls memes it made since to me


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

biscuitfister said:


> I liked yalls memes it made since to me


You're learning, my young Padawan.

Your Dark Lo- I mean, senpai is proud of you! <3


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Most of the leftists and sort of the rightists are hypocrite, ignorant assholes.


Get real. The repeated expression of this manifestly bigoted idea of yours seems to me to be completely antithetical to the thesis of this topic and it would appear to seriously undermine your credibility as a speaker on matters of both diversity and equality.


----------



## JumboWumbo (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Get real. The repeated expression of this manifestly bigoted idea of yours seems to me to be completely antithetical to the thesis of this topic and it would appear to seriously undermine your credibility as a speaker on matters of both diversity and equality.


Whoa, you're not b&.

I thought that poem you made about the mod would've been the end.


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

JumboWumbo said:


> Whoa, you're not b&.
> 
> I thought that poem you made about the mod would've been the end.


Turns out, speaking truth to power has a place in the world, despite all that national social malaise may suggest. People are finding their voices.


----------



## JumboWumbo (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Turns out, speaking truth to power has a place in the world, despite all that national social malaise may suggest. People are finding their voices.


I love you :3


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Get real. The repeated expression of this manifestly bigoted idea of yours seems to me to be completely antithetical to the thesis of this topic and it would appear to seriously undermine your credibility as a speaker on matters of both diversity and equality.


The Left's the ones doing the violence and bigotry. Just sayin'.


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> The Left's the ones doing the violence and bigotry. Just sayin'.


Yup, that sounds like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren alright. (/sarcasm)


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Yup, that sounds like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren alright. (/sarcasm)


Sanders and Warren's pretty cool.

Bernie's economical plan(which is basically non-existent, and would basically fuck over rich and/or successful people, and make them leave America) and this crap about Socialism would've fucked America beyond fucked.


----------



## Jarren (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Yup, that sounds like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren alright. (/sarcasm)


Just gonna say, I think the statement was more about the supporters/protestors than the politicians themselves. A lot of left leaning folks have been less than peaceful in somewhat concerning numbers. (Not to say the right hasn't been retaliating, but it's a smaller scale). I say this as a Sanders supporter turned Trump voter. Poor Bernie.


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Sanders and Warren's pretty cool..


They are the leaders of 'the left,' and so you seem to me to be expressing some internal schism in your desire to simultaneously denigrate and praise (as such) the movement or insist hoodlums and anarchists define its principles or fill its ranks.


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Just gonna say, I think the statement was more about the supporters/protestors than the politicians themselves. A lot of left leaning folks have been less than peaceful in somewhat concerning numbers. (Not to say the right hasn't been retaliating, but it's a smaller scale). I say this as a Sanders supporter turned Trump voter. Poor Bernie.


Bernie Sanders vs DJ Trump would've been SOOO much more fun to watch.

Bernie from what I heard had several million ballot papers with his name on it in the Primaries, but, the DNC being DNC, decided to go with an old hag with more skeletons in her closet than an entire skeleton army combined. Might have a couple zombies, Grokes and goo monsters in that closet too.



ChromaticRabbit said:


> They are the leaders of 'the left,' and so you seem to me to be expressing some internal schism in your desire to simultaneously denigrate and praise (as such) the movement or insist hoodlums and anarchists define its principles or fill its ranks.


I never said ALL Leftists are violent. I never said ALL Leftists are bigots. I said the Left's doing the violence and bigotry. As in, the vast majority of it is in fact coming from the Left. The Right is reacting to the violence and bigotry being thrown in their direction.

I criticize anyone on an individual level. Same goes for "leaders" of any group/movement. If a group/movement is shown to be in the vast majority one way or the other, lets say, violent, and members of that group/movement do not condemn the violence of others in that group/movement, I will look upon that group/movement as a whole in being violent.

Last time i checked, the Right is not/do not:

- Call for the death of Capitalism
- Promote Marxism 
- Promote Communism, aka Marxist-Leninism
- Promote Socialism. Venezuela's a perfect spot if you want to see how good Socialism really is
- Riot because their favorite candidate didn't win
- Hate the Free Market and Free Market of Ideas
- Hate free speech 
- Act in a violent way to IDEAS and a difference of opinion
- Rant on and on about "hate speech"
- Lack self-awareness when it comes to violence
- Throw about ad hominems, insults, smear campaigns, hit pieces and threats of violence/murder because they don't like someone
- The ones starting fights. Sure as hell will finish them, though
- Protest and then start a fight at a free speech event/rally made by Left-wingers
- Try to label people racist, sexist, nazi, mysogynistic, +++, over and over again as if it has ANY merit or act as an argument
- Drowning in double-standards

The Left's dying. They are dying fast. Until they actually get their heads out of their asses, they will continue to lose every engagement, every debate, every fight, every clash of ideas.


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

That's quite a shopping list, but seems like a cartoon to me. I think if we focused a little here and delve into items individually, the center won't really hold on most. I'm not even in the mood to try to illustrate this with discussion of things folks routinely would pin on the right, namely,  corporate cronyism, electoral corruption, for-profit health care predation, violent expressions of depraved American international hegemony, anti-intellectualism, anti-humanitarianism, opposition to international social plurality and cosmopolitanism, jingoism, chauvinism, enslavement of minds to empty or superficial memes, and so on. Someone on the true left would probably say your things don't describe them or are extreme sorts of straw men, someone on the right would probably feel the same thing about my litany above. 

Let me clue you in on what I think is a secret hiding in plain sight: the two-party system is a single entity with two brands and identity politics to keep them separate, but in terms of how they actually move, in terms of outcomes, they're of a like mind: corporate oligarchy or  Inverted Totalitarianism. (Inverted totalitarianism - Wikipedia). Their modus operandi? Keep the people divided, plunder prosperity from posterity under their distracted noses. It's not a system that serves the nation, its people, or their needs generally. Not anymore, not in a long time. Corrupt Federalism is true danger, and people are lost in their dreams and small lives, confused by the messaging, and despondent in a malaise of acquired helplessness. You're seeing all sorts of psychological reactions, people acting out on all sides. Me, I'm sitting on a mountain, looking across the horizon of America, and weeping. This is no place to grow old, it will devour you like a butchered cow, and that's by design.

Only by transcending the framework of the establishment system does clarity emerge, but most of the messaging is authored to get people lost, and if we look across US society today, more people are lost than not.


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> That's quite a shopping list, but seems like a cartoon to me. I think if we focused a little here and delve into items individually, the center won't really hold on most. I'm not even in the mood to try to illustrate this with discussion of things folks routinely would pin on the right, namely,  corporate cronyism, electoral corruption, for-profit health care predation, violent expressions of depraved American international hegemony, anti-intellectualism, anti-humanitarianism, opposition to international social plurality and cosmopolitanism, jingoism, chauvinism, enslavement of minds to empty or superficial memes, and so on. Someone on the true left would probably say your things don't describe them or are extreme sorts of straw men, someone on the right would probably feel the same thing about my litany above.


A shopping list indeed. 

All the items you've listed are not exclusive to the Right, either. Can find that shit on both sides, and plenty of it.

Regardless: Corruption and greed is rampant all over. Career politicians especially are full of shit. Should make it illegal to go straight into politics out of University..



ChromaticRabbit said:


> Let me clue you in on what I think is a secret hiding in plain sight: the two-party system is a single entity with two brands and identity politics to keep them separate, but in terms of how they actually move, in terms of outcomes, they're of a like mind: corporate oligarchy or  Inverted Totalitarianism. (Inverted totalitarianism - Wikipedia). Their modus operandi? Keep the people divided, plunder prosperity from posterity under their distracted noses. It's not a system that serves the nation, its people, or their needs generally. Not anymore, not in a long time. Corrupt Federalism is true danger, and people are lost in their dreams and small lives, confused by the messaging, and despondent in a malaise of acquired helplessness. You're seeing all sorts of psychological reactions, people acting out on all sides. Me, I'm sitting on a mountain, looking across the horizon of America, and weeping. This is no place to grow old, it will devour you like a butchered cow, and that's by design.


The two-party system in the US needs to die. It have only served to create polar opposites that in a decent amount of cases aren't even interested in talking with the other side in the first place.

Hell, the American forefathers warned against this shit, AND the banking system we now use, which end up with an economical down turn every 69-70 years due to a shift in economies and economical capital.

But, things are the way they are, unfortunately. The only thing we can do is use the pasta and learn from it, in order to change the present to preserve the future.


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> But, things are the way they are, unfortunately. The only thing we can do is...


When I say "acquired helplessness," this is what I'm referring to. It's not a slight against you, what in your experience could possibly have prepared you for the notion that you define your own life and times and can change the world by releasing your mind and freeing your spirit? That's also, unfortunately, by design, but it is a false reality. Many people believe they must sit in metaphorical prisons and wait for some _deus ex machina_, despite the lack of locks or bars.


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> When I say "acquired helplessness," this is what I'm referring to. It's not a slight against you, what in your experience could possibly have prepared you for the notion that you define your own life and times and can change the world by releasing your mind and freeing your spirit? That's also, unfortunately, by design, but it is a false reality. Many people believe they must sit in metaphorical prisons and wait for some _deus ex machina_, despite the lack of locks or bars.


And what do you mean by that?

Some suggestions as to what to do would be nice.


----------



## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

Don't settle. Move beyond reactions of "this is just the way things are, oh well," as a first step. Seek something more. Seek like-minded individuals with a positive vision for the future or a real reaction to the present. This isn't to say "become an activist," but definitely do become a punk and sneer at being controlled or defined by others or playing by corrupted rules. Or better still, quietly subvert the system from within.


----------



## Fallowfox (May 2, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Indeed. This what I mean it's just suppose be fun, interesting finding others with stuff in common with you and connecting with each other. Also, having bit of awareness we are still human, which I think some people need to learn. Those who trying to get politics involved in these things, they should be ignored because they being annoying asshole who thing "everything" to be involved with politics is important. I being honestly here, I'm sort of agreeing there should be a Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month to corresponding International's Men Day:International Men's Day - Wikipedia .If those who taking part of Furry White History Month and Male Fursuiter Month/Male Furry Month, won't be actually assholes toward those who taking part of Furry Black History Month and Female Fursuiter Month/Female Furry Month. To make it neutral and fair for least everyone. In my opinion.
> 
> I'm just saying. There is a International men's Day/Male History Month, I think. So why there can be a White History Month, its sort of right now bit unfair and bit racist? I mean they being fair and neutral though gender and sort of other similar things but not race?
> 
> (Sorry, for the late reply.)



Well, part of the point of furry black history month was for black furries to find each other in the fandom, because they're a minority in it, and they wanted to find other furries who've also had that experience. 
It also provided some colourful and playful content for black history month, for people who didn't know what furries were. 

None of this really apply to furries who are white, because we're the majority, so we don't really _need_ a 'white furry history month'. The only point in having one would be because somebody else had an 'x furry history month', which isn't a very convincing reason to motivate anybody.


----------



## Jarren (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Don't settle. Move beyond reactions of "this is just the way things are, oh well," as a first step. Seek something more. Seek like-minded individuals with a positive vision for the future or a real reaction to the present. This isn't to say "become an activist," but definitely do become a punk and sneer at being controlled or defined by others or playing by corrupted rules. Or better still, quietly subvert the system from within.


Basically, become cognizant of what you can change, and be the kind of person/force for good you desire, yes? Be the change you want to see. Let your actions speak for your beliefs.


----------



## Sergei Sóhomo (May 2, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> Well, part of the point of furry black history month was for black furries to find each other in the fandom, because they're a minority in it, and they wanted to find other furries who've also had that experience.
> It also provided some colourful and playful content for black history month, for people who didn't know what furries were.
> 
> None of this really apply to furries who are white, because we're the majority, so we don't really _need_ a 'white furry history month'. The only point in having one would be because somebody else had an 'x furry history month', which isn't a very convincing reason to motivate anybody.


I dunno, we've invented some amazing shit. It'd be interesting to learn more about it


----------



## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Don't settle. Move beyond reactions of "this is just the way things are, oh well," as a first step. Seek something more. Seek like-minded individuals with a positive vision for the future or a real reaction to the present. This isn't to say "become an activist," but definitely do become a punk and sneer at being controlled or defined by others or playing by corrupted rules. Or better still, quietly subvert the system from within.





Jarren said:


> Basically, become cognizant of what you can change, and be the kind of person/force for good you desire, yes? Be the change you want to see. Let your actions speak for your beliefs.


This I can agree on. Words/statements mean nothing without action to back them up with. 

I've been tempted numerous times to become a politician actually. To clean up some of the garbage that is ruining lives and fucking people over. Though I am not sure if I want the taint, power and greed that comes/may come with it..


----------



## Fallowfox (May 2, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> I dunno, we've invented some amazing shit. It'd be interesting to learn more about it



I don't know of _any_ furry inventors. (unless you count bad dragon toys as inventions)  A month to see what furries who are white have invented seems bizarre.


----------



## Jarren (May 2, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> (unless you count bad dragon toys as inventions)


Well, technically they are. Although, I don't think anyone wants a month dedicated to THAT. As funny as it would be.


----------



## Sergei Sóhomo (May 2, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't know of _any_ furry inventors. (unless you count bad dragon toys as inventions)  A month to see what furries who are white have invented seems bizarre.


I'm sure there are a fair bit of inventors and entrepreneurs who are furries


----------



## quoting_mungo (May 2, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't know of _any_ furry inventors. (unless you count bad dragon toys as inventions) A month to see what furries who are white have invented seems bizarre.


I don't know about inventions,_ per se_, but there's some pretty amazing engineering going into some of the more high-end fursuits, with animatronics and LED lights and inventive cooling solutions. 

I think the point is more that it's... pretty exclusionary to tell a portion of the fandom, even if it's allegedly the majority, that their historical contributions matter less. They didn't choose to be white any more than a black person chose to be black. If you (general) want to bring into the light some less-known inventions or aspects of history, by all means, do your research and try to educate others about the Irish immigrants to the US who weren't really treated much better than the black slaves (primary difference was that in theory their servitude was time-limited; in practice many of them didn't live to earn their freedom), or the people forcibly sterilized in various eugenics projects throughout semi-modern history, or whatever. Neglected/covered-up history. The notion of "Forgotten History Month" sounds like a pretty neat idea, on that note. There are some points in/aspects of history that "everyone" knows, and some that you have to dig a bit to unearth, and it's not always proportional to how old the events are.


----------



## Sagt (May 2, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> I don't know about inventions,_ per se_, but there's some pretty amazing engineering going into some of the more high-end fursuits, with animatronics and LED lights and inventive cooling solutions.
> 
> I think the point is more that it's... pretty exclusionary to tell a portion of the fandom, even if it's allegedly the majority, that their historical contributions matter less. They didn't choose to be white any more than a black person chose to be black. If you (general) want to bring into the light some less-known inventions or aspects of history, by all means, do your research and try to educate others about the Irish immigrants to the US who weren't really treated much better than the black slaves (primary difference was that in theory their servitude was time-limited; in practice many of them didn't live to earn their freedom), or the people forcibly sterilized in various eugenics projects throughout semi-modern history, or whatever. Neglected/covered-up history. The notion of "Forgotten History Month" sounds like a pretty neat idea, on that note. There are some points in/aspects of history that "everyone" knows, and some that you have to dig a bit to unearth, and it's not always proportional to how old the events are.


A different perspective: It's not at all about telling the majority that their historical contributions matter less, but rather about putting light on minorities that have been historically oppressed and forgotten.






A forgotten history month sounds cool.


----------



## Bluey Grifter (May 2, 2017)

I'


Sergei Sóhomo said:


> I'm sure there are a fair bit of inventors and entrepreneurs who are furries


I'd LOVE to invent a few of the things currently lounging about in my mind. But these furry clawed paws won't allow me to put pen to paper.


----------



## TomVaporeon (May 2, 2017)

To me, part of the point of the fandom is that all of us can be our fursonae independent of our real-life looks or identity - so everyone is equal.
Using the word 'diversity' makes me uncomfortable because it tends to just ignore an entire demographic and their culture just because there are more of them.
I feel like we should celebrate what people do rather than what people are is all.
So I liked the writers' month idea but I'm not so sure about the others.
Sorry if this came across as twatty.


----------



## Fallowfox (May 2, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> I don't know about inventions,_ per se_, but there's some pretty amazing engineering going into some of the more high-end fursuits, with animatronics and LED lights and inventive cooling solutions.
> 
> I think the point is more that it's... pretty exclusionary to tell a portion of the fandom, even if it's allegedly the majority, that their historical contributions matter less. They didn't choose to be white any more than a black person chose to be black. If you (general) want to bring into the light some less-known inventions or aspects of history, by all means, do your research and try to educate others about the Irish immigrants to the US who weren't really treated much better than the black slaves (primary difference was that in theory their servitude was time-limited; in practice many of them didn't live to earn their freedom), or the people forcibly sterilized in various eugenics projects throughout semi-modern history, or whatever. Neglected/covered-up history. The notion of "Forgotten History Month" sounds like a pretty neat idea, on that note. There are some points in/aspects of history that "everyone" knows, and some that you have to dig a bit to unearth, and it's not always proportional to how old the events are.



I don't think believing that a 'furry white history' month is unnecessary is equivalent to saying white people's contributions are less important.
In general I think the whole 'white history month' farce has more to do with reactionary and wry responses to black history month than it actually does with any concern that the history of white people isn't valued enough.

The history of European white people has been recorded very well and is taught very well, compared to lots of other histories, so that's where your forgotten history month idea becomes relevant.
(I'm a little surprised people always bring up Irish persecution as an example of a poorly known facet of history, because I had always thought this was well-known)

I have reservations about anything _called_ a forgotten history month though, because I think that conspiracy theorists would piggy-back it in order to try to spread their ideas, under the guise that they are real history that has simply been forgotten. (the kinds of people who believe human civilisation originated on Lemuria, that the garden of Eden was real, that the Scots are the lost tribe of Israel and so on)


----------



## Troj (May 2, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> Well, part of the point of furry black history month was for black furries to find each other in the fandom, because they're a minority in it, and they wanted to find other furries who've also had that experience.
> It also provided some colourful and playful content for black history month, for people who didn't know what furries were.



Also, the troll posts and UGH WHY IS THIS A THING-type posts in response to the hashtag underscored the continuing need for Black History Month, as well as the need to highlight and cheer on talented black furries.

Also, white people already have a history month--it's called "11 months out of the year."

There is a LOT of Forgotten History that would be very worthwhile for people to actually study. I recommend Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen and an Underground Education by Richard Zacks as starting points. While its over-the-top Marxism caused me to roll my eyes back in the day,  Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States is actually an important read.


----------



## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Get real. The repeated expression of this manifestly bigoted idea of yours seems to me to be completely antithetical to the thesis of this topic and it would appear to seriously undermine your credibility as a speaker on matters of both diversity and equality.


Well I'm being real about it. I mean that is my opinion and I'm least being completely honestly about it. Which I think most people need to learn to be honestly and take the honestly well, not get "offended" by it. I will be alright to work with both sides and stop saying negative stuff about them, if they being civilised not being uncivilised at all, which seemed to be not much happing right now outside of this thread. I'm just saying, and if you saying I'm seriously undermine my credibility as a speaker on matters of both diversity and equality. It's your opinion and I appreciate the opinion. Anyway, I don't think I'm trying to be a "speaker" on matters of both diversity and equality, I'm just trying to give awareness of this, and that why I'm having a civilised debate, well a semi-civilised debate which we need to get back being complete civilised again because it's seemed to be getting bit out of hand right now. Also, if you or anyone else want a group, organisation or whatever you want to call it dedicated to this? Because it's sound like that due to fact seemed to most of you sort of keep saying I'm sort of not suitable for this on my own? I'm just saying.


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## quoting_mungo (May 2, 2017)

Lcs said:


> A different perspective: It's not at all about telling the majority that their historical contributions matter less, but rather about putting light on minorities that have been historically oppressed and forgotten.


I absolutely get that that's the intended purpose of Black History Month; my point is more that saying "pfft we don't need no history month for white people" is deliberately shutting people out for something they have no control over. What their motivation is for asking for it is irrelevant, really; it's up to them to either make something useful of it or have people snort at their efforts. Having an event focusing on group A isn't "group-ist", if you will, but saying group B doesn't deserve an equivalent event certainly isn't putting effort into making them feel included. 
Because another purpose, from what I gather, of things like BHM, is to connect people to their roots and heritage. And that's arguably something everyone should get a chance at. 



Fallowfox said:


> (I'm a little surprised people always bring up Irish persecution as an example of a poorly known facet of history, because I had always thought this was well-known)


I literally had never heard of the treatment the Irish received coming off the boats to the US until last year. And I took English history in University, as part of my degree. I mean, that's obviously anecdotal, but to me that makes it an example of history that's been swept aside. Obviously what exactly is covered will vary between cultures and school districts, but overall I think expanding on lesser-known aspects of well-known historical periods can only benefit us. Same goes for covering what groups OTHER than Jews were victimized during WWII. Not because the Jews weren't hit hard, but because it's important to acknowledge the other victims, as well.

And ironically, I think I got more viking history in my (English) Lit History course, and my English history course, again at Uni level, covering Beowulf and the repeated invasions of Britain, than I really got in compulsory school in Scandinavia. Though that may also in part be due to having changed school districts during compulsory school.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

JumboWumbo said:


> Whoa, you're not b&.
> 
> I thought that poem you made about the mod would've been the end.


Well nobody can't get banned or shouldn't be banned for that, because it's particularly freedom of expression, your opinions and it's your rights to it.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Turns out, speaking truth to power has a place in the world, despite all that national social malaise may suggest. People are finding their voices.


Indeed. Everyone have their rights to voices their opinions. Even though you may considered it to be "extremism". All, though people most of time/always still changing their views and other similar things.


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## ChromaticRabbit (May 2, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Well I'm being real about it (...)  It's your opinion and I appreciate the opinion. Anyway, I don't think I'm trying to be a "speaker" on matters of both diversity and equality, I'm just trying to give awareness of this, and that why I'm having a civilised debate (...) Also, if you or anyone else want a group, organisation or whatever you want to call it dedicated to this? Because it's sound like that due to fact seemed to most of you sort of keep saying I'm sort of not suitable for this on my own? I'm just saying.


I appreciate this, and was probably being a bit grouchy, though I am, as you are, tired of the heat and noise out there, in part because I think it's just a scheme to keep people generally off balance and looking for scapegoats and excuses in the grassroots. I feel as if it's part of someone's plan to divide people and turn them against one another, even if only in a superficial sort of way. It creates real misery that's so easy to get drawn into, even knowing what it is-- everyone at a grassroots level starts fanning the flames and the establishment just leans back in their recliner with a metaphorical scotch and cigar, smiling. 

Well, for now I don't have many more profound thoughts other than perhaps what I already said earlier to Yakamaru this evening, but I'll keep thinking about it. We need peace and we need dialog, it should be real, it should avoid partisanship and polemics, and yet there are real and even extreme issues. Approaching them is now socially difficult 'by design' (as I keep suggesting, this is all part of a plan). Atop that, I'm not sure a pluralistic nation of 330 million is governable in some mutually-exclusive way, but as long as there are dark agendas for the world, there's a powerful motivation to keep people from coming together and ending them. And yet we must, short fuses burn. What must be done to wake people up and help them find their voices? The question is being thought about.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> The Left's the ones doing the violence and bigotry. Just sayin'.


I kind of agree with that. However, I think it's seemed to both sides are doing equal amount of violence and bigotry right now, but I sort of don't know who started the violence and bigotry in this new wave/era of "communism" and "fascism"(I think)/stupidity or whatever you call it. I'm just saying aswell.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> Yup, that sounds like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren alright. (/sarcasm)


Thank you to Elizabeth Warren for saying that. Everyone have their right to their views and other similar things, even though sometime it considered as a "hate speech" or whatever, is simple freedom of speech that. Also, those who considered it as a "hate speech" or whatever, they simple can ignore it or peacefully protest and other similar things. They have the right to it and they not been forced to attended. Isn't that hard.


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## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> I kind of agree with that. However, I think it's seemed to both sides are doing equal amount of violence and bigotry right now, but I sort of don't know who started the violence and bigotry in this new wave/era of "communism" and "fascism"(I think)/stupidity or whatever you call it. I'm just saying aswell.


The majority of starting violence is coming from the Left. The Right is reacting to the violence being done to them with more violence. It's like a room full of mirrors. Everything gets amplified.

It feels as if everything is planned out, people's minds and hearts are completely manipulated, as if they are mere puppets. Because just silence is too much to ask for, so people can clear their heads and we can have some god damn calm, rational and open discussion.



Mr Insanity said:


> "hate speech"


"Hate speech" is just a fucking buzzword. A definition/term that's used in an attempt to silence those whose ideas/comments/opinions does not align with yours. 

To quote the "dictionary":
noun
1.
speech that attacks, threatens, or insults a person or group on the basis of national origin, ethnicity, color, religion, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, or disability.

^ All that shit is 100% SUBJECTIVE. If you for instance insult my Norwegian ancestry I can simply shout "HATE SPEECH!" and shut you down. "Hate speech" is a fucking pointless term as it's vague as hell, not to mention 100% subjective. Just fuckin' glad we don't have this kind of vague crap in our law system over here. However, there are people and/or parties who are pushing this vague as hell crap to be put into law in numerous countries. Might wanna take a look into which side on the political spectrum they are. I'll bet you $50 it's majority Left-wing parties/people pushing this crap.

It's basically Political Correctness taken to the next level. Political Correctness is cancer, no matter what level it is at. Policing people's language/speech is cancer.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Sanders and Warren's pretty cool.
> 
> Bernie's economical plan(which is basically non-existent, and would basically fuck over rich and/or successful people, and make them leave America) and this crap about Socialism would've fucked America beyond fucked.


Yeah indeed. Bernie Sanders was more better politician and candidate then Hillary Clinton. The Democratic Party have made absolutely crappy mistake there, having Hillary Clinton candidate for being president. She was equal worst and crap as Donald Trump. Also, she was corrupted, same goes with Donald Trump. I think, Bernie Sanders would have more better chance of possible of winning the election against Donald Trump.

I agree with you having completely socialism economical system and completely capitalism economical system isn't working and never going to work. We need to have mixed economical system, I mean balanced between socialism and capitalism which it is benefiting everyone.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Just gonna say, I think the statement was more about the supporters/protestors than the politicians themselves. A lot of left leaning folks have been less than peaceful in somewhat concerning numbers. (Not to say the right hasn't been retaliating, but it's a smaller scale). I say this as a Sanders supporter turned Trump voter. Poor Bernie.


Thank you for clearing it up. Yeah, I'm talking much about the supporters/protestors not the politicians. Even though I seemed to be started to hate some/most of them right now. It's seemed to most of time, just there for the violence nothing do with politics at all.


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## Mr Insanity (May 2, 2017)

ChromaticRabbit said:


> They are the leaders of 'the left,' and so you seem to me to be expressing some internal schism in your desire to simultaneously denigrate and praise (as such) the movement or insist hoodlums and anarchists define its principles or fill its ranks.


I sort of agree with this. "Hoodlums", anarchists and other similar people,  to my opinion they don't represent the whole left and possible the whole right and again my opinion, I think they are terrorists because they are using violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims. They shouldn't have any rights at all to their opinions and other similar rights. Unless their started to be peacefully. I'm just saying. Anyway, however it's seemed to be lot of them turning into "Hoodlums", anarchists and other similar people right now, I think.


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## Yakamaru (May 2, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> Yeah indeed. Bernie Sanders was more better politician and candidate then Hillary Clinton. The Democratic Party have made absolutely crappy mistake there, having Hillary Clinton candidate for being president. She was equal worst and crap as Donald Trump. Also, she was corrupted, same goes with Donald Trump. I think, Bernie Sanders would have more better chance of possible of winning the election against Donald Trump.
> 
> I agree with you having completely socialism economical system and completely capitalism economical system isn't working and never going to work. We need to have mixed economical system, I mean balanced between socialism and capitalism which it is benefiting everyone.


Venezuela's the perfect Socialist example. Country's in complete deep shit. Socialism simply doesn't work.

DJ Trump's a pretty decent POTUS, despite being hated and opposed from all sides. In only 100 days he and his administration have slowly turning America back on its feet, where it should be.

America desperately needed a businessman in the White House, not another 4 years of the same garbage.

Businessmen create actual tangible results. Career politicians will only make it LOOK like there are results.



Mr Insanity said:


> I sort of agree with this. "Hoodlums", anarchists and other similar people,  to my opinion they don't represent the whole left and possible the whole right and again my opinion, I think they are terrorists because they are using violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims. They shouldn't have any rights at all to their opinions and other similar rights. Unless their started to be peacefully. I'm just saying. Anyway, however it's seemed to be lot of them turning into "Hoodlums", anarchists and other similar people right now, I think.


Declare ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist group. Boom, the majority of political violence is solved, quite literally overnight.


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## Arcturus Maple (May 3, 2017)

I have enjoyed hearing many stories as a student growing up with black history months being used as a showcase for just this purpose in junior and senior high school. My favorite stories are the ones about people who managed to better their own situations and others, especially in the face of adversity. It should come as no surprise then that one of my favorite American heroes is Harriet Tubman. She's a character I would really enjoy seeing more done with in film or television, as another folk hero of the calibre of Davy Crockett or Tom Sawyer. She just so happens to be both a woman and have ancestry giving her dark skin. I admire her for all of her accomplishments and the struggles she overcame to achieve them. 

Does this mean we should have a black history month or a women's history month? I think not. I want to celebrate Harriet Tubman and other figures like her the whole year round, rather than putting them in some kind of special olympics category, as though they need it to compete with people of another sex or ancestry. To suggest such to me seems as though it's being said that groups equally represented (women all around the world, except for a few countries) or groups underrepresented regionally (blacks in the USA, Koreans in Japan, furries everywhere not a furry convention) need such a handicap. I admire and denigrate people equally without regards to their race, sex, or age. The only group I ever really single out and oppose in all situations are those who oppose reason and rational decision-making.

As far as politics goes, I listen to media outlets from left, right, and antiparallel to form an opinion, but this opinion is not an accurate representation of truth, just the closest I can get to it by critically accessing every argument individually and as a part of the argument overall. Basically, what I'm hearing from each side is as follows:
New Left: We should be making the world a place where people of groups most recently oppressed should be able to do whatever they want without consequences and get revenge on the people we are jealous of. Free speech which supports us should be encouraged, but anyone opposed should be silenced.
Old Left/Libertarian: Everyone should have equal right of opportunity and greater freedom of expression is a good thing.
Old Right: We should hold onto the values we have always had and try not to change anything before we see how that change will affect us in the long run.
New Right: The new generation is a bunch of children who want big government to take the affluence, influence, and rights away from their parent's generation because they think their liberal arts degrees make them smarter than the people who achieved success through decades of discipline and hard work. We want to keep our jobs, right to self defense, self-respect, and cultural identity.
Anti-parallel: I know you guys have very different opinions on how we should do things, but can't we just find some common ground and work together until we've established a backup plan for when the fossil fuels run out in 10-20 years?
I personally am in favor of a libertarian or anti-parallel viewpoint. Thus, I hold the belief everyone should be on a level playing field by setting standards which the vast majority can agree upon are good terms to live by, take care of themselves, and minimize government involvement, but simultaneously working to prepare for an inevitable shift in the economy and lifestyles of people all around the world when one of our most critical resources becomes virtually unobtainable.


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## Maximus B. Panda (May 3, 2017)

Mr Insanity said:


> I agree with you. All furries are equal, and we all should equal.
> 
> I know there is diversity in The Furry Fandom. I appreciate it, and I do sort of don't agree with separating into groups because it cause more problems but it's mostly impossible to stop it, so those who don't agree to it need to learn to not be asshole about it and fighting each other over this, and learn how to work together to make The Furry Fandom great again.
> 
> (Sorry, for the late reply.)


I never said ALL YIFFERS ARE EQUAL! And I never said we should be. Here is the original statement, read it again.






Look into it, see what it really means. You got the rest of what I was saying right though.


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## Yakamaru (May 3, 2017)

Maximor_Bloodpanda said:


> I never said ALL YIFFERS ARE EQUAL! And I never said we should be. Here is the original statement, read it again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


George Orwell. <3

Some of my favorite quotes:

"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

"So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot."

"“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”


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## spacerogue (May 3, 2017)

I apologise if its been said, or if I sound like an ass, but as someone with LGBT labels the last thing I'd like is to be in a spotlight for something I did not chose to be. Having been a member of various forums around those labels, for support and information,I also find the premise of 'finding likeminded kin' well, sorry but I think its bullshit. I did not make friends for life in places where asexuals gathered, same from trans folks, I did however made friends for life in an art related RP group and all the people there are very diverse. 

My heart would sink to my shoes if I ever got mail or notice that people put a spotlight on my art because 'this trans guy draws furries !' 
like ... what do you think I worked the most for ? What do you think is dearest to me enough to been slaving over for for over a decade ? 
hint ; its not what's between my legs, skincolor, gender or sexualety. 
A biological error that takes a few years to correct and that then is rendered cured, and outdated after that (you transition, you move one ,its a bad idea to dwell on the past) , or a skillset that's hard to acquire, asks for a lot of discipline and hard work to achieve and it quite frankly often underrated. The very skill thats the reason you might be here in this fandom in the first place ! 

If you're looking into promoting more people, just promote them for the work they do. There are plenty of artist that have gathered a great amount of skill and are still unknown to many. 
Award people for sticking to their guns and working hard at their craft.


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## Maximus B. Panda (May 3, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> George Orwell. <3
> 
> Some of my favorite quotes:
> 
> ...


Nice selection of quotes. I love that guy, it's too bad that other people can't understand his works to appreciate them.


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## Yakamaru (May 3, 2017)

spacerogue said:


> I apologise if its been said, or if I sound like an ass, but as someone with LGBT labels the last thing I'd like is to be in a spotlight for something I did not chose to be. Having been a member of various forums around those labels, for support and information,I also find the premise of 'finding likeminded kin' well, sorry but I think its bullshit. I did not make friends for life in places where asexuals gathered, same from trans folks, I did however made friends for life in an art related RP group and all the people there are very diverse.


Finding kinship is bullshit and quite frankly, overrated.

I get questioned often why I am not interested in interacting with other Norwegians in general. Why should I interact with someone just because we are from the same country? We have nothing in common, apart from language.



Maximor_Bloodpanda said:


> Nice selection of quotes. I love that guy, it's too bad that other people can't understand his works to appreciate them.


George Orwell is a good author, with a ton of relatable and good quotes. I've not read his shit myself, but I've read several quotes and direct stuff from his works. Tempted to buy his books, especially 1984.


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## Fallowfox (May 3, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> I absolutely get that that's the intended purpose of Black History Month; my point is more that saying "pfft we don't need no history month for white people" is deliberately shutting people out for something they have no control over. What their motivation is for asking for it is irrelevant, really; it's up to them to either make something useful of it or have people snort at their efforts. Having an event focusing on group A isn't "group-ist", if you will, but saying group B doesn't deserve an equivalent event certainly isn't putting effort into making them feel included.
> Because another purpose, from what I gather, of things like BHM, is to connect people to their roots and heritage. And that's arguably something everyone should get a chance at.
> 
> 
> ...



This surprises me. Perhaps I grew up in a society more aware of anti-Irish bias, because of the history of the troubles with Northern Ireland and IRA bombings in England. (A house near where I live was bombed in a botched assassination attempt a long time ago)
So in ways the results of anti-Irish bias are still actually continuing today.


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## Sagt (May 3, 2017)

Arcturus Maple said:


> As far as politics goes, I listen to media outlets from left, right, and antiparallel to form an opinion, but this opinion is not an accurate representation of truth, just the closest I can get to it by critically accessing every argument individually and as a part of the argument overall. Basically, what I'm hearing from each side is as follows:
> New Left: We should be making the world a place where people of groups most recently oppressed should be able to do whatever they want without consequences and get revenge on the people we are jealous of. Free speech which supports us should be encouraged, but anyone opposed should be silenced.
> Old Left/Libertarian: Everyone should have equal right of opportunity and greater freedom of expression is a good thing.
> Old Right: We should hold onto the values we have always had and try not to change anything before we see how that change will affect us in the long run.
> ...


:/

You know, purposefully misrepresenting other people's views is sort of uncool. Virtually no one, if anyone, belongs in that first group, or at least in the way that you described it.


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## Jarren (May 3, 2017)

Lcs said:


> :/
> 
> You know, purposefully misrepresenting other people's views is sort of uncool. Virtually no one, if anyone, belongs in that first group, or at least in the way that you described it.


Nobody wants to be there, but a lot of people (at least partially), through practice, end up there. See: Berkeley.


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## Sagt (May 3, 2017)

Jarren said:


> Nobody wants to be there, but a lot of people (at least partially), through practice, end up there. See: Berkeley.


My comment was more about him suggesting that the 'New Left' believes that minorities can do no wrong and should be allowed to do whatever they want - no one would argue this and so it's totally fallacious.

Anyways, if by the 'New Left' he was referring to anarchists and far-left types, then I'm fine with what he wrote about the discussion of ideas being important. That said, it should be mentioned that generalisations are often made about 'the left', without excluding normal people, as being violent degenerates when in reality, the violent ones are actually an extreme minority. Antifa in particular seems to be the go-to sensationalist example for the right-wing populists to constantly use in order to put themselves on a moral highground.


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## Jarren (May 3, 2017)

Lcs said:


> My comment was more about him suggesting that the 'New Left' believes that minorities can do no wrong and should be allowed to do whatever they want - no one would argue this and so it's totally fallacious.
> 
> Anyways, if by the 'New Left' he was referring to anarchists and far-left types, then I'm fine with what he wrote about the discussion of ideas being important. That said, it should be mentioned that generalisations are often made about 'the left', without excluding normal people, as being violent degenerates when in reality, the violent ones are actually an extreme minority. Antifa in particular seems to be the go-to sensationalist example for the right-wing populists to constantly use in order to put themselves on a moral highground.


I have actually heard people make that argument. (Granted, they were promptly laughed at by their fellows). They are, however, in the extreme minority and I acknowledge that. I'd thought your point was relating to his whole statement. My bad.


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## FluffyShutterbug (May 3, 2017)

I'm a transgender woman with a herm OC. Doesn't get more diverse than that ~ !


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## Troj (May 3, 2017)

You know, I think liberals do have a tendency to sometimes behave as _if_ they think minorities can do no wrong, because they end up applying overly-simplistic heuristics or developing a kind of tunnel vision while genuinely trying to do the right thing. But, if you were to ask most people, they'd disagree that they really believe that "minorities can do no wrong."

There are definitely people who fit the hardcore strawman stereotypes--living in a very liberal granola college town, I could tell you some stories--but it's unfair to completely judge a group based on the outliers.

It's also not entirely fair to completely judge a group based on its less-thoughtful or more-naive members if they don't represent at least a plurality of the group.

But, you can definitely use those people to point out the problems with the group and/or the vulnerabilities in its world view or approach.


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## Sagt (May 4, 2017)

OK, I should have said that _virtually_ no one would argue this.

As for what Troj wrote, I wonder whether those people are large enough to be considered representative though. There are still a lot of 'Pray the gay away' types out there, but this wasn't the description given for the Old Right. Similarly, there are fuckload of people who genuinely believe that Muslims cannot integrate into Western society, yet this wasn't the description given for the New Right. This in mind, his descriptions just seemed far too disingenuous - he used insulting generalisations to describe the New Left while not doing the same for the other groups.

Also, there are certainly more variations of right and left than just old and new, which is another thing that bothered me about his descriptions. For example: anarchists (of whatever type) environmentalists/greens, liberals, right-wing populists, social democrats, libertarians/anarcho-capitalists, socialists, conservatives, ethno-nationalists, neo-nazis, neo-liberals... etc. Then even within those groupings, those people can be further differentiated for certain issues.


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## Maximus B. Panda (May 4, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> George Orwell is a good author, with a ton of relatable and good quotes. I've not read his shit myself, but I've read several quotes and direct stuff from his works. Tempted to buy his books, especially 1984.


Yeah he is, and one of the best philosophers as well. If you like his quotes do read his books, they are not happy stories but they are truthful. Sad thing is that you will find much of his stories quite comparable to real life. Get 1984, that's probably the best one to start with. If you want a shorter story though, try Animal Farm, I just read it not long ago and loved it. 

Kinda funny to see a millennial like me appreciate and understand George Orwell's works, isn't it?


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## Arcturus Maple (May 4, 2017)

My apologies for not making my statements quite clear enough. Those descriptors were not what those movements state as their goals, but more the impression each group has left through the overall actions of their membership. i.e. The persona of the group itself created by the decisions of the membership of each and the identity established by the media supporting and opposing it.

There have definitely been groups associated with the right which promoted a religion-guided government, and this makes sense because the US government has drawn its moral character from Judeo-Christian religious beliefs since practically the foundation of nation itself. Maintaining such beliefs would be a matter of conserving the attitudes which have been held for a long time. I oppose beliefs which are based on religion rather than reason as a matter of course, so I lumped them in with the nutter subcultures supporting the right. If such groups had their beliefs and agendas supported by the right as a whole, the way neo-feminism, social justice warrior, and racial superiority groups have been supported by the left, I would have included their views in my description, rather than treat them as a tangentially-related fringe group.

My description of the new left is a composite of what the membership is largely pushing for, what leftist media outlets promote, and the few remaining right media outlets argue against. The major things they can agree are true inside and outside the movement are that it supports socialist ideals, wants special considerations made for groups which have faced oppression in the past (even the ones not being oppressed now), and creates a platform for some to speak with unconditional  respect, while refusing to listen to the arguments of the opposition by leaving the discussion for a safe space echo chamber, drowning out other opinions by chanting anti-hate speech mantras, or making threats of violence or rioting.

As for whether or not Muslims can integrate into Western culture? I've known many wonderful people who were Muslims. Hell, I let one sleep in my own bed when they couldn't go home because they had been threatened by another Muslim and were fearing retaliation. I believe that there are many Muslims who are good citizens and many more could be. But do you know what happens when you invite people who have lived with very different societal expectations and laws all their lives to come into your country? Many will not change to conform to the laws of your country or seek to have your laws changed to be more like the country they came from. If you want to see what a effect large influx of Muslims who have lived their whole lives in the middle east can have, take a look into what's been happening in Sweden. I didn't categorize the topic as a difference of viewpoint between left and right, because anyone in either group who has seen that is opposed to large-scale introduction of immigrants from the middle east. The Muslims who live in the USA now are very different from those.


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## Sagt (May 4, 2017)

You don't believe their beliefs and agendas are supported by the right in general? My man, not only is the current vice-president homophobic, but the Republican Official Platform states that:

_"Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman and actively promote married family life as the basis of a stable and prosperous society. For that reason, as explained elsewhere in this platform, we do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states."

"Traditional marriage and family, based on marriage between one man and one woman, is the foundation for a free society and has for millennia been entrusted with rearing children and instilling cultural values. We condemn the Supreme Court’s ruling in United States v. Windsor, which wrongly removed the ability of Congress to define marriage policy in federal law. We also condemn the Supreme Court’s lawless ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges, which in the words of the late Justice Antonin Scalia, was a “judicial Putsch” — full of “silly extravagances” — that reduced “the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Storey to the mystical aphorisms of a fortune cookie.” In Obergefell, five unelected lawyers robbed 320 million Americans of their legitimate constitutional authority to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman."_​
Also, here's the most recent graphic I could find showing attitudes towards same-sex marriage with voters.


Spoiler











The idea that 'the left' supports racial superiority groups is total strawman, as is the idea that the Tumblr archetypes are anything but a minority.

There are plenty of right-wing media outlets, but a lot of them are just moderate. The Wall Street Journal, as much slack as it gets on the internet, is actually considered centre-right.

Sweden is a great country - they have one of the highest GDP per capitas in Europe, a much greater degree of income equality and their crime is on trend levels. A meme going around is that their rape rates are ridiculously high, but if one actually looks at the details, it can be seen that this is extremely deceitful. Sweden's figures are highly inflated because it has a much broader definition of rape, a larger percentage of rapes are reported and each instance of rape is considered a rape case. (To elaborate on that last point, if someone were to rape someone 10 times in 1 week, but all on separate occasions in Sweden, then this is put down as 10 rape cases while as in other countries, this would be put down as 1 rape case.) This in mind, it's really not fair when people compare rape rates in Sweden to other countries.


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## quoting_mungo (May 4, 2017)

Arcturus Maple said:


> If you want to see what a effect large influx of Muslims who have lived their whole lives in the middle east can have, take a look into what's been happening in Sweden.


Don't even start. You know what the most problematic/offensive thing an immigrant or second-generation immigrant ever did to me? Ask me whether my leashed, fluffy-ass cat was dangerous. I have no fucking idea when my country became something people from halfway across the world felt justified in waving around to justify their xenophobia. The vast majority of immigrants want to carve out a place in their new country _within the boundaries set out by that country's laws_. Have there been isolated events that may be grounds for concern? Yes, sure. Is that unique to middle eastern immigrants (Muslim or no)? Fuck no. 

For instance, the man who murdered Minister of Foreign Affairs Anna Lindh was born in Sweden, and spent only 6-7 years of his childhood in what was then Yugoslavia. I'm not offhand finding anything about his or his family's religious roots, but what I did come across suggests he probably isn't Muslim. He also had a history of inappropriately carrying and threatening people with knives. That's just picking a random event that shook the country enough that even I (who generally don't pay much attention to news) heard it, off the top of my head.

When you say "what's been happening in Sweden" you sound like Trump.


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## Arcturus Maple (May 4, 2017)

And changing the definition of marriage is a motion which opposes conservatism, as it means changing the way something has been done for a long time. As for why any political group is trying to establish whether anyone can be married or not is a bit ridiculous to me, as marriage is a religious institution. If people are upset about not being allowed to marry in their religion, maybe they should consider changing their religion or challenging it to change instead of trying to bring government into the argument. If I took the time to delve into every little argument made by each side or the disagreements made by each little faction, the major differences between the two would remain the same, just be expressed uniquely each time, and sometimes with the added flavor of a subculture or strong individual personality, so I ask you to forgive me if I have not specifically addressed an issue which you consider of exceptional importance.

If the left doesn't support racial superiority groups, then why do they promote black lives matter, a group notorious for promoting violence and dispersing anti-white sentiment?

I wasn't referring to rape when I mentioned Sweden, I was referring to the rise of gang violence and use of military grade weaponry in their activities, but if you want me to address sexual violence, I'll oblige. Using the change in method of reporting and recording sex crimes in this way has made it incomparable to other countries, as indeed it is already difficult to draw comparisons about such statistics, as policy varies on what qualifies such things from country to country, but sex crimes in Sweden are about as low as they have been in the last few decades. The lack of data detailing distribution of the ethnicity of those involved in such acts, however, makes the resolution of this discussion difficult. The assumption that everyone in the middle east wants to bring violence to the west is absurd, but the argument that there wouldn't be any violence or criminality as a result of plopping people who have lived one way for a long time into to another country with vastly different expectations and customs is equally delusional. We have to expect there would be some conflict, like that seen in the Irish, Italian, and Jewish communities earlier in US history. These groups have integrated into the great American melting pot over time, but there was violence and suffering before their cultural identities merged with America as a whole. I advocate slow, cautious introduction of immigrants or refugees, so as to minimize conflict and build up good will between immigrants and current citizens.

I must admit that any opinion I hold is informed only by what I have hear on the news, read in a newspaper, or can relate to from personal experience. I have never been to Sweden, and would appreciate becoming better informed on the matter if Quoting_Mungo or anyone else from Sweden would oblige. I seek truth, not the validation of my own opinions.

I'd also just like to throw in that I really don't care for Donald Trump myself, nor do I pay much attention to what he has to say. He is someone that does stir up controversy, though, and stimulate dialogue on matters which should be discussed rather than ignored, so I will give him credit for that.


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## Kezi Avdiivka (May 4, 2017)

Here's my views

Don't be a dick. I don't care what you are, just don't be a dick to me and I won't have any reason to bitch you out.

People with a different gender, same thing don't be a Dick and i'm fine. However, NO I will not learn some stupid pronouns or check my privilege because you think your special. PROTIP: You're not.


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## Sagt (May 4, 2017)

Marriage is a legal and social contract, not a religious institution (or at least in the laws eyes).

Black Lives Matter's official platform opposes violence. It's about bringing a change to the US criminal justice system, not for oppressing white people. Stop watching sensationalist Youtube videos man.

I find it annoying when people portray Sweden as some sort of warzone, like the Donald does. I should mention that researchers at the Intercultural Dialogue at the Swedish Institute actually believe crime in Sweden is most closely related to joblessness, poverty and exclusion from society, NOT country of origin. Immigrants are willing to integrate, they just need the opportunity so that they can become productive and accepted members of society. This can be done by increasing funding for education, providing grants for businesses to start up in poorer areas, incease opportunity of mobility for immigrants so they can move to locations where there are jobs or even just giving it time.
Furthermore, most criminologists and authorities seem to be in agreement that there are short-term challenges to overcome, but that right-wing populists have blown things far out of proportion. I think this is fair to say because, no matter how you look at it, Sweden still has about a fourth of the homicide rate of the US, it's crime rate has overall stayed on its trend rate and there were less reported rapes in 2016 than there were in 2014 - it's certainly not a bad place as a result of the immigration.


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## Troj (May 4, 2017)

Neither liberals nor conservatives have a proper grasp of Islam and the history and culture of the Middle East--and I say that as someone who's hardly an expert, either.

Conservatives demonize and otherize Muslims, and liberals patronize and infantilize them. We need to remember that Muslims are still fundamentally human beings, while at the same time avoiding the trap of just projecting our Christian Western Enlightenment values onto them.

I'd tend to agree with LCS that many problems stem from people in general feeling alienated and disenfranchised. People who feel like they have a purpose and a place in society are less likely to rebel against it, by my way of thinking.

Ergo, my suspicion is that "EHMEGHERD IMMERGRERNTS R STERLING MER WERLPERPER!"-type stuff actually fuels terrorism in the long run. If I had my druthers, we'd have programs for identifying "at-risk" youths and young adults, so that we could actively recruit them to join pro-social clubs in their community and offer counseling and other types of support services.


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## Connor J. Coyote (May 5, 2017)

I voted I don't know.. (for whatever it's worth).. as whilst I generally *agree* with the notions of diversity/equality, I think a bit of tact is necessary also - (when pursuing these goals); as to ensure that other's rights aren't "disenfranchised" - when we are in the process of "enfranchising" others..


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## quoting_mungo (May 5, 2017)

Arcturus Maple said:


> As for why any political group is trying to establish whether anyone can be married or not is a bit ridiculous to me, as marriage is a religious institution.


As Lcs touched on, it's generally not the religious institution that people are concerned about, when they seek to e.g. legalize gay marriage. Marriage as a legal contract brings with it a number of benefits, such as improved immigration opportunities for international couples, tax benefits, generally some degree of automatic medical power of attorney, etc. From what I hear, prior to the legalization of gay marriage, there were US states where long-time same-sex partners were not being allowed to visit their sick partners, due to "not being family" in a legal sense.

My marriage definitely isn't a religious institution, as I'm agnostic and my husband atheist. We were literally married in his living room.



Arcturus Maple said:


> I wasn't referring to rape when I mentioned Sweden, I was referring to the rise of gang violence and use of military grade weaponry in their activities


I'd expect this is more an effect of globalization and the general... progression of arms technology, to be honest. Can't cite sources for that, just a feeling I have. I remember when I was ikkle, the news would somewhat regularly talk about Hell's Angels and Bandidos getting into armed scuffles. I'd not be surprised if globalization has made heavier arms relatively easier to obtain on the black market. (Not to say I'm in any way anti-globalization, just that I can well believe it comes with unfortunate side effects.)

Thanks to a particular absolutely catastrophic housemate (STILL in the process of trying to get him evicted, fuck damn it!), I do have some limited experience with gangs and gang violence. The only possibly Muslim individual (I don't believe he is practicing; he's a second-generation immigrant who speaks Swedish natively and I've never seen him at anything I'd think of as religious) AT ALL associated with this particular group of lowlifes is the former housemate who recommended him, and who prior to doing so had only known him a few months. This former housemate is... unfortunately not very bright, and fairly easily manipulated, which I suspect was a primary reason the terrible housemate befriended him in the first place.

The only individual who couldn't pass as natively Swedish that I've otherwise seen terrible housemate associate with is a Dane (and Sweden has an extensive history of open borders towards Norway and Denmark). The logic that seems to primarily guide these people is "if someone's got shady business they ain't gonna snitch" - terrible housemate from what I understand at one point knifed someone over a debt. If someone's in custody, it's open season on their belongings, and they will not hesitate to intimidate others in order to facilitate this. Terrible housemate has also been feeding myself and my parents (my dad is the landlord) lies more or less from the get-go, with varying (and generally declining over time) degrees of consistency between the stories. The charge that eventually ended up sticking on terrible housemate was a weapons violation (and possibly possession/dealing in stolen goods - I'm unsure on this point) when he brought a gun to go threaten a former friend of his and was stopped by police on the way.

These are people who don't _want_ to be enfranchised; terrible housemate was clean and ran his own business at one point (prior to moving in here), and from what I understand could have been doing quite well for himself. Instead he started showing up for jobs high (yes, my mother actually found business reviews to this effect), and ended up driving himself and his business into bankrupcy. They'll work with the system only so far as they can take advantage of it. It only took him a few months to stop paying his rent (back rent has since been covered by social services in an effort to smooth things over enough for us to give the guy a second chance). I've personally had to go upstairs (where housemates lived) to tell people to knock it the fuck off after overhearing physical altercations twice in the span of a few months. I think we had police come over to do warrant searches five or six times.

Which is a rather long-winded way of saying "I don't doubt there's gang activity, but personal experience suggests Muslims hold little to no blame for that."


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