# advice for breaking out of anime style



## Taralack (Mar 7, 2011)

Any good tips? 

Basically, I'm getting sick of drawing in one style all the time, and if I ever wanna get a job in the industry as an illustrator/concept artist I gotta break out of that shitty style right the fuck now. 

A friend says my style isn't -that- anime but eh, would still like to hear other opinions. I've been drifting away from anime over the years and I'm more interested in general concept and character art (especially from games and movies) but anime doesn't fit in well into either of those genres.


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## Redregon (Mar 7, 2011)

mirror and sketchpad. draw yourself.

and draw what you see, not what you think ought to be there (the downfall of anime... it's too stylized.)

if you want to be an illustrator/concept artist... life-drawing, life-drawing, life-drawing. and colour theory, composition, structure, anatomy, landscapes, architecture, basically the whole nine-yards (illustrator is pretty much the top-tier of art jobs out there... concept artist is next in line since you have to be flexible, adaptable and consistently on-model for whatever it is you're creating.)

oh, and a degree at a renowned artistic university. yeah, not trying to shatter your hopes but the art industry (the REAL art industry, none of this DA/FA/Y!/etc nonsense) is very very very very very small and everyone and their dog wants one of these gigs so the competition is hardcore... which means you have to be able to stand head-n-shoulders above the rest.


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## Zydala (Mar 7, 2011)

http://whitetrashpalace.deviantart.com/art/UNDERSTANDING-YOUR-STYLE-1-169660607 A good place to start? Even if you've looked over it before, it's a good read. Part 2 actually talks a bit about breaking out of anime style haha

I found that drawing from life helped me kick some bad habits. Anime eyes tend to be much larger than real eyes (obviously ) but in all seriousness, drawing them smaller and in more correct proportions helps (there is an eye's width between the edge of the face and between eyes as well from a front-standing view.)

I'd also learn to vary body types, face shapes, and just pay more attention to what features make individuals unique.

http://jeinu.deviantart.com/art/Unique-Features-Tutorial-Pt-1-153030678
http://jeinu.deviantart.com/art/Unique-Features-Tutorial-Pt-2-154756158
http://jeinu.deviantart.com/art/Unique-Features-Tutorial-Pt-3-198515118 <---- Here's a couple tutorials showing how you can do that, but there's tons more that are helpful too.

Really just try a bunch of things; it won't be a perfectly smooth transition but if you doodle a bunch and try bunches of different looks it should help. And I know it's said all the time and I already said it but drawing from life really does help   haha

*EDIT:*


Redregon said:


> oh, and a degree at a renowned artistic university. yeah, not trying to shatter your hopes but the art industry (the REAL art industry, none of this DA/FA/Y!/etc nonsense) is very very very very very small and everyone and their dog wants one of these gigs so the competition is hardcore... which means you have to be able to stand head-n-shoulders above the rest.



Actually most people don't give a crap where you learn. They ask for your portfolio and try to see if you can do the work they want, not if you went to somewhere special. Of course it depends on where you're aiming to work eventually; but it's more like people who come from those schools already make excellent work (or else they wouldn't have lasted there in the first place).

I'm just sayin' there's plenty of professionals out there who didn't learn at a renowned art school; it's about the work you create.


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## Jw (Mar 7, 2011)

Key to breaking out of any stylized look is to get back to realism. If you can draw it right, you can draw it well in any style. It's just a matter of slowly correcting how your artistic mind wants to work. 

This will sound stupid. But try it:
Draw a picture of someone you know based off a picture that you own. Just come up with it in your head and lay it out on the paper. When it's done, get the actual photo and lay it down on the sketch paper. Right next to your sketch. Now, look and compare what looks wrong, off or unrealistic. Don't worry, the differences will be there. Get a peice of paper, and jot them down. That will be your areas of study.

Likely, you'll see a list like this (taken out of my own sketchbook at one point)
*eyes, especially irises and pupils
*lips
*noses
*neck
*lower torso/hips
*knees

Now that you see them, I want you to redraw it in a realistic fashion. As close as you can get to the original while not directly tracing it (not like you would do that, but in case someone else is reading this), but merely referencing it. See if your problem spots still hold. If they do, it's time to do some studies. 

http://lovecastle.org/gestures/index.php has a neat function that lets you just view some random faces. If you click on the countdown button, time will pause. You will get a chance to draw whatever feature you're working on, then you can reload the page and keep going. 

Focus on the particular part at first, then do some intermittent application drawings to see how it noe fits into your figures. while doing your intense STUDY sketches, you don't need to worry about the extra crap. It's like an exam in school-- do you study chapters that aren't going to be on the test? Nope. And in the same way, don't worry so much about the other parts until "midterms" or "finals"-- that's when you put everything together. This is counter-intuitive for me to say, but sometimes it's better to learn a specific part in a hell of a lot more detailthan you'll likely ever need, because then it will make the general drawing seem so much easier. I recent;y had this myself when I was drawing a nude figure for one of my studies-- the eye  could have been complicated, but instead it was reduced to a simple shadowed triangular area. 

Rule of thumb: lines are pretty freaking rare on a human figure's face other than implied lines created by shadows. you can see the line between the lips and maybe the line between a closed eye, but otherwise they tend to hide. Not even wrinkles are always lines, though they might be. It's all about learning and getting more experience with what you draw. Learning to shade will make things so much clearer and realistic. Anime has a love affair with overuse of lines. Learning to step away from their overuse will help out a lot.

I love hearing that people are willing to step away with their comfort zone, so I wish you a lot of luck and still want to remind you of something. You've been drawing in anime for a while. This habit will not break overnight. Don't get discouraged and keep pacing forwards. Your realism skills will begin to show through your work, and then the style will fade. But for now, dedicated practice is the way to go. It's going to die hard, but it's far from impossible to overcome it.

I'll try to explain this better once I get some food in my system.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 7, 2011)

Any time you have to break out of a "style" it means you relied too much on one source's symbolism and not enough of your own personal observation.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 7, 2011)

Redregon said:


> oh, and a degree at a renowned artistic university. yeah, not trying to shatter your hopes but the art industry (the REAL art industry, none of this DA/FA/Y!/etc nonsense) is very very very very very small and everyone and their dog wants one of these gigs so the competition is hardcore... which means you have to be able to stand head-n-shoulders above the rest.


 
No sorry, please do your research before giving advice like this. A degree is not needed to get hired. A good portfolio is.


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## Redregon (Mar 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> No sorry, please do your research before giving advice like this. A degree is not needed to get hired. A good portfolio is.


 
you sure about that? it will give that extra edge to rise above the others, a dedicated curriculum to study what's needed to know, many teachers and professors and the like that (should) know their stuff as well as a whole slew of people to both ask for critiques and possible networking options. not to mention if you want to cross any international border, it makes the process a lot smoother. (since most government agencies i've heard of and had to deal with are very, very, very hesitant to give you a visa unless you've got a degree or serious work experience in the field... but, he's starting out. so that kinda cuts out the work-experience bit.)

and research? heh, try living the biz and actually getting a regular paycheque from art.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 7, 2011)

Redregon said:


> you sure about that?
> 
> and research? heh, try living the biz and actually getting a regular paycheque from art.


 
Yes, I'm sure. I help admin conceptart.org where the owner is IN the business, founded his own company and didn't even finish high school or art school.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102315

I know the business well enough. I had done jobs with web mastering, graphic design and small time illustration. None of them asked for my degree. Many there will tell you the Degree is for Mommy and Daddy's well being that their son/daughter did something in art school instead of getting crunk. In addition the only time a degree is required is if you're going to teach. However, that is a mixed bag because there are people with fine arts degrees to be a teacher but can't do art for shit. 

An art education != degree.

The amount of people who are in the business with degrees than without is 50/50. Clients are not looking for degrees, they're looking for people whose art skills will make them money.

Next time you want to try to throw your little ad hominem remarks about whether or not I know the business do your research.


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## Zydala (Mar 7, 2011)

Redregon said:


> you sure about that? it will give that extra edge to rise above the others, a dedicated curriculum to study what's needed to know, many teachers and professors and the like that (should) know their stuff as well as a whole slew of people to both ask for critiques and possible networking options. not to mention if you want to cross any international border, it makes the process a lot smoother. (since most government agencies i've heard of and had to deal with are very, very, very hesitant to give you a visa unless you've got a degree or serious work experience in the field... but, he's starting out. so that kinda cuts out the work-experience bit.)


 
The only good a university can do for a person is when the student is already engaged, focused and working hard personally. There's tons of students that go to universities and work only on the assignments that the schools give them, then they flounder helplessly after they've gotten their degree because they have no idea what they want to do with their art because they were just on auto-pilot.

The bigger, more prestigious universities churn out better students because the good ones _won't keep_ the bad students. The students they invest in already have the drive needed to make good art. But if you're already a well-driven artist, you don't need that big school because you have all the resources you need to learn wherever, whether it's at another university with a smaller program, or at home with some really good books and helpful guidance from other professional artists on the web.

Unlike other employment opportunities, most of the time, if an employer is interested in hiring you, they ask "can you make what we need", not "where did you come from".


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## Redregon (Mar 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yes, I'm sure. I help admin conceptart.org where the owner is IN the business, founded his own company and didn't even finish high school or art school.
> 
> http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102315
> 
> ...


 
nice, completely ignore the reasons posted why an institution is advisable while remaining condescending and holier than thou.

good show there! 

didn't bother to address the whole "structured curriculum" bit, nor the "visa process" bit, nor the "industry is small" bit... just, vomited some self-absorbed bullshit on the page about how you know people in the biz. 

good show sherlock. and i never really knew that people that have direct experience in the business is less than people that know people. 9_9 all i got from that post is "well, you're wrong because i know people in the biz." well, newsflash, so do i. 

though i do agree that the paper you get at the end is worthless, it's not the paper at the end i'm talking about. pay attention and drop the attitude.



Zydala said:


> The only good a university can do for a person is when the student is already engaged, focused and working hard personally. There's tons of students that go to universities and work only on the assignments that the schools give them, then they flounder helplessly after they've gotten their degree because they have no idea what they want to do with their art because they were just on auto-pilot.
> 
> The bigger, more prestigious universities churn out better students because the good ones _won't keep_ the bad students. The students they invest in already have the drive needed to make good art. But if you're already a well-driven artist, you don't need that big school because you have all the resources you need to learn wherever, whether it's at another university with a smaller program, or at home with some really good books and helpful guidance from other professional artists on the web.
> 
> Unlike other employment opportunities, most of the time, if an employer is interested in hiring you, they ask "can you make what we need", not "where did you come from".


 
well, i do agree, if you're not motivated to practice, higher education is a complete waste of money and time... but for some people, the fact that they have the whole "shit, this is costing me $XX,XXX" can often motivate people to work harder. 

that and let's be honest here... if anyone is really aiming for a gig in the biz or a regular paycheque, if they aren't driven enough to work hard in a college/university setting, there's no way they're going to survive in a professional setting. all it's going to take is their first crunch time and they're going to crumble. not going to try and shitpost, but if OP wanted to make art his career, he would spend less time surfing or chatting on a website forum and more time practicing.


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## Deo (Mar 8, 2011)

Draw abstract, surrealist, or realist. I have a few abstract images scanned off of College of Design textbooks if you want me to email some to you I will.


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## Taralack (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> but if OP wanted to make art his career, he would spend less time surfing or chatting on a website forum and more time practicing.


 
Hey, everyone needs their indulgences. I get what little social contact I need from the internet, so it's either I become a hermit and go insane, or try and balance it out a little with internets. I'll admit I've become a lot lazier since moving to Australia, but that's not the point of this thread.

PS: I'm a female.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> that and let's be honest here... if anyone is really aiming for a gig in the biz or a regular paycheque, if they aren't driven enough to work hard in a college/university setting, there's no way they're going to survive in a professional setting. all it's going to take is their first crunch time and they're going to crumble. not going to try and shitpost, but if OP wanted to make art his career, he would spend less time surfing or chatting on a website forum and more time practicing.



Sorry, you're wrong. College has nothing to do with drive. Art is one of the few careers where college doesn't matter. I didn't ignore your post, but you don't know what you're talking about. If you want to do art, you can find an education where you can get it, many have. 

Also consider this your warning because this is the second time I've seen you intentionally spread malicious and false advice which is coming off as trolling. If you don't stop you will be banned. Also don't be a hypocrite, if you're going to tell someone to stop pudging around on the internet and practice, do the same and shut up and draw more .


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## Redregon (Mar 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Sorry, you're wrong. College has nothing to do with drive. Art is one of the few careers where college doesn't matter. I didn't ignore your post, but you don't know what you're talking about. If you want to do art, you can find an education where you can get it, many have.
> 
> Also consider this your warning because this is the second time I've seen you intentionally spread malicious and false advice which is coming off as trolling. If you don't stop you will be banned. Also don't be a hypocrite, if you're going to tell someone to stop pudging around on the internet and practice, do the same and shut up and draw more .


 
oh, so, your response to a dissenting opinion is to threaten a ban? and really, if you don't want people getting all condescending or what, maybe you should try not being that way yourself. you're dismissing my experience and parroting off the whole "art careers don't need a degree" which, if you have been paying attention to, i do tentatively agree with you. but let's not forget that if you wanted to get an art job, you can go both ways. one will give a structured environment and lessons meant to teach the fundamental basics while learning on your own can leave one flailing about with little direction. 

and malicious and false advice? sorry, that doesn't fly. you only are calling it false and malicious because i am not agreeing with you... is this how you are? someone doesn't agree with you and you threaten to ban them? that's real professional (/sarcasm.)

but the whole "imma ban you" bit is real nice. guess i'm going to have to cap this for posterity.


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## Fay V (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> not going to try and shitpost, but if OP wanted to make art his career, he would spend less time surfing or chatting on a website forum and more time practicing.


 God forbid someone has a hobby outside of their intended career. If you want to draw that better be the only thing you ever do, until you calluses can cut diamonds!



Deo said:


> Draw abstract, surrealist, or realist. I have a few abstract images scanned off of College of Design textbooks if you want me to email some to you I will.


I agree with Deo here. I think realism will obviously be better for you and you need to focus on it, but it might be fun to just pick a style one day and try to draw in that style. retrain your brain.


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## Redregon (Mar 8, 2011)

Fay V said:


> God forbid someone has a hobby outside of their intended career. If you want to draw that better be the only thing you ever do, until you calluses can cut diamonds!.


 
9_9 no, reason i say this is (and i'm not trying to be a prick, just honest here) but OP's art is seriously lacking if they wish to have art be their career. as such, there's a hell of a lot of work that they're going to have to do to improve their abilities that it would be better suited to try and further their abilities if given the choice between chatting on a website (which isn't a hobby, it's more a distraction) or practicing.

people don't seem to understand just how much competition there is for that industry to the point where if anyone wishes to make it in that field, they have to be able to outshine everyone else that applies for whatever job it is. 

look at it like this... for every posting to any job site about an art career, there are thousands upon thousands of applications such that any industry person has their choice pick. if all that an applicant has to offer is anime-ish styled furries, their portfolio is going to be thrown out pretty quickly.


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## Ilayas (Mar 8, 2011)

As far as the college vs no college art debate I have found while applying for graphic art jobs that any schooling that I have had has been secondary to the strength of my portfolio.  Having a degree might maybe make a potential employer more willing to call you back (it really varies a lot from employer to employer I have found) but honestly when it comes down to it people don't get hired in the art field because of what school or what degree they got they get hired based on their portfolio plain and simple.  

My best portfolio pieces came from working an internship that was more or less a real graphic art job only they paid me less and made me wash the company car a few times.  The guy who owned the company I did my internship for dropped out of art school cus he thought it was a waste of time founded his own company that did graphic design work and mural paintings and was in the process of buying a bigger house when I worked for him.  That said I personally benefited a lot from my time in art school.  I got exposed to a lot of things I wouldn't have other wise and was able to get some good tough criticism of the strengths and weakness of my art.  I needed that but I fully admit that not all people do.  Art school provides direction and structure for those are lacking in such things and will only help you if that is what you need.  

If you are unsure about it try taking an art class and see how it goes. The worst that can happen is you waste and little time and money but still probably get to meet some interesting people.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> but the whole "imma ban you" bit is real nice. guess i'm going to have to cap this for posterity.


 
Go ahead. This isn't about a dissenting opinion. You're intentionally spreading false information and making it personal attacks and you were warned on another thread not to do that. That doesn't mean it ONLY counts for that thread. It means stop doing it, not come here and do the same in another thread. http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...s-and-Coding?p=2412963&viewfull=1#post2412963

You came here attacking the OP and then proceeded to do the same with others, the same thing you were warned for.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> 9_9 no, reason i say this is (and i'm not trying to be a prick, just honest here) but OP's art is seriously lacking if they wish to have art be their career. as such, there's a hell of a lot of work that they're going to have to do to improve their abilities that it would be better suited to try and further their abilities if given the choice between chatting on a website (which isn't a hobby, it's more a distraction) or practicing.
> 
> people don't seem to understand just how much competition there is for that industry to the point where if anyone wishes to make it in that field, they have to be able to outshine everyone else that applies for whatever job it is.
> 
> look at it like this... for every posting to any job site about an art career, there are thousands upon thousands of applications such that any industry person has their choice pick. if all that an applicant has to offer is anime-ish styled furries, their portfolio is going to be thrown out pretty quickly.


 
1. The person knows her art is lacking, that's why she came for advice. She asked for how to break out of a style, not "do I need to go to college". 
2. College can be a SYMPTOM not the cause of drive. Even then, people still go to art SCHOOLS (not college) to learn. That's the difference. Go back and read about the realities of going to art school. You don't need to spend tons of money you need to spend a lot of time. 
3. There is no age limit so she can take her time to see if this is really what she wants.


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## Redregon (Mar 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> You came here attacking the OP and then proceeded to do the same with others, the same thing you were warned for.


 
if my post here is "attacking" then you really have no idea... frankly, and i'm being completely blunt here, you should just quit trying to bully like you are doing right now. it is not a sign of being able to maintain order or anything of the sort, you are basically falling into the very same trap that you have been complaining about to the admins... as in, lording your authority. 

but back on topic... art school can benefeit you but like has been said, it is not nessessary. it can be a very good and quick way to learn the nessessary basics, but it's not, in any way, a guarantee of a job. that being said, in general, any art college or university worth it's salt will give you the tools you need to succeed a lot better than floundering around on your own will.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> but back on topic... art school can benefeit you but like has been said, it is not nessessary. it can be a very good and quick way to learn the nessessary basics, but it's not, in any way, a guarantee of a job. that being said, in general, any art college or university worth it's salt will give you the tools you need to succeed a lot better than floundering around on your own will.


 
There is no "Good and quick way" - learning takes time. The long standing art schools, actually take longer, not less time to learn. Your information again, is false. 

Which still has more to do with the student than the school. The student will look for the tools, the university gets the fame. No one is discounting that a good university will help, but you put more into it than actually necessary. A lot of the information they give now is free online. However, having a good teacher help you with foundations is helpful. The full package is not really found in one school. It's not uncommon for students to go to different schools to learn what he/she wants. Again, though this would be more advanced learning. The basics are found at a lot of colleges and even good colleges have bad teachers. 

However, the OP can learn a lot on her own, she needs to do more observational drawing. Learning to see is critical, but what's more critical is learning to use your imagination to create your own "symbols" which is part of style. http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26636 It isn't about copying a Loomis or Hogarth book, it's about learning how to use their methods to construct a figure. However, the way you build your visual library is drawing from life. You just need a pencil and paper and patience with your eyes for that.


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## Redregon (Mar 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Your information again, is false.


 
... really? prove it. because how can a person learn anatomy without drawing from life? you can try and do that with people on the street but i would wager that you'd be getting some rather odd stares (at the least) if you were seeking to draw nude people in public (so you can understand how the muscles and tendons work together, as one example.)

also, and this is more a question, really, but how many times have you seen or heard of people getting "wow, that's awesome" when they really should be getting "your structure is off, proportions are wonky and your anatomy is bad?" a teacher is paid to be bluntly honest (again, with any school that's worth their salt.) and to teach. 

personal anecdote time but when i became serious about learning art and stuff, i learned a fair amount on my own, but my learning increased exponentially when i had access to the faculty i did. it would have taken me many more years to get to where i am in my work had i done it all solo. now, does this mean that i may be an aberration? possably... but take one look at the results you see coming out of places like the Vancouver Film school, Ringling school of art, hell, even animation mentor... and compare that with all the people that have been self taught. you will get consistently higher quality work from the schools than you would with self-taught people on average.

p.s. you've not even addressed the issue of immigration for a job. if you're a US citizen, i can understand why you'd not be aware of that but as a canadian, i've had to do my research into what it would take to get a work-visa. as good as your work may be and as willing as the company may be to sponsor you, the degree can and will open more doors than not having one. it's been like that for jobs i've sought both in the US and even internationally (india was one place but i didn't get that one. my lack of a degree kinda was the final decision in that one... yes, i technically didn't "graduate" so i'm not saying all this just to get people to be roped into debt like i was. but having seen both sides, i have to side with the colleges and universities because they do open more doors than without.)


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

For traditional foundations it can be 4+years of learning. It's not quick. An Art Institute for example tries to teach you in 2 years time, some courses finally going to 4. In that time they don't teach you what other schools have which again, can take 4 or more years. This is because they focus on traditional drawing, then move on to painting. This is because they want you to learn the basics of drawing, before wasting money on Paint. Art Institutes for example, cram this and you get a little of everything but not a long course on these foundations. You end up having to go outside of the school more often to get information.

Drawing and painting are the same actually but painting has more variables like color and learning to use mass drawing. Most drawing people know is line drawing. Painting also focuses on color theory and learning how to mix paint. Art Institutes try to push you onto a computer as quickly as possible because "it's today's training". 

What happens is, those students that are more focused on the longer traditional courses, have better foundations. It's easier to train them to use a program or he/she can still stick with traditional painting if the client just likes the work. 

But it takes longer. If you actually go back into art history, painters were trained as kids and spent most of their lives in an atelier. Things have changed which is why no single source or "just go to a good school" is the answer to learning artwork. 

No only that, you're always learning and learning takes many years even after you graduate from whatever college (if you chose to take this course).


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## Redregon (Mar 8, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> For traditional foundations it can be 4+years of learning. It's not quick. An Art Institute for example tries to teach you in 2 years time, some courses finally going to 4. In that time they don't teach you what other schools have which again, can take 4 or more years. This is because they focus on traditional drawing, then move on to painting. This is because they want you to learn the basics of drawing, before wasting money on Paint. Art Institutes for example, cram this and you get a little of everything but not a long course on these foundations. You end up having to go outside of the school more often to get information.
> 
> Drawing and painting are the same actually but painting has more variables like color and learning to use mass drawing. Most drawing people know is line drawing. Painting also focuses on color theory and learning how to mix paint. Art Institutes try to push you onto a computer as quickly as possible because "it's today's training".
> 
> ...


 
i can agree with this... maybe that's the difference between what i studied (3D animation) versus classical fine-arts. my course was two years but it was intense and brutal. still, they did put us in life drawing classes regularily as well as character design and development and the whole nine yards. looking at my FA page will show that i'm certainly not the best when it comes to drawing and such but then again, i kinda did focus on the technical side of 3D. 

but in the end, a school environment will help steer someone in the right direction... hell, i'd give just about anything to be able to go to that massiveBlack/ConceptArt.org school they're forming. the chance to pick the brains of those people? fuck yeah!

still... and let's be honest with ourselves here... though i am of the mind that art school/college/university/etc is ideal, i will contend that it's not the only way to go. it's just, more efficient than independant study and brings a lot more to the table than just the skills needed to succeed (networking, fundamentals, that kinda thing.)


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## choochoobracket (Mar 8, 2011)

My uneducated layman's perspective: over-use of "anime style" translates to superficially copying a skilled eastern artist's distinctive linework and style cues, but glossing over the intuition, the technique, the foundations for it. Lines are psychological constructs that arise from how our brains think about three-dimensional shapes of objects, which if you are to convince anyone of anything using an artistic medium (and not by a lucky roll of the dice), you must thoroughly first understand. That means knowing not only how something "looks", but how it feels and smells and sounds. To paraphrase by memory an implausible analogy from a very good book that I've not had the courage to tackle at length, an expert martian artist could not at first glance draw a human's house, it would look like the doodles of a four-year-old.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> but in the end, a school environment will help steer someone in the right direction... hell, i'd give just about anything to be able to go to that massiveBlack/ConceptArt.org school they're forming. the chance to pick the brains of those people? fuck yeah!


 
Massive Black has their own atelier or at least that's Carl Dobsky's. Jason Manley has the Art Department which is not associated with Massive Black. Carl Dobsky trained iirc, at a classic atelier. So it goes back to "art school is what you make of it". 

The bottom line is, a school will help - but it will help someone who is already motivated and working that direction already. It's far unlikely that a person who is motivated will suddenly go in the wrong direction. It's also just as unlikely if you had the money to blow that going to a high rep art school would matter if you don't have the right motivation to begin with. In addition, those schools look at your portfolio so it already tells you ...you had to be motivated in the first place.

http://www.amazon.com/Painting-Techniques-Masters-Lessons-Enlarged/dp/0823038637 This is a pretty good rundown in the first chapter of how artists learned, how critiques were given. The rest might bore you or is too advanced, depending on your learning.

What does all this have to do with school? Too many people focus on "the hot guys" and forget that in order for them to learn, they had to go back and learn from the greats too. The old masters taught us a lot of what we need to know today. So it's not just going to Carl Dobsky's school because he's an MB guy, it's finding out what did Carl Dobsky learn and who were the artists in art history he was interested in. Not just who, but WHY. 

This all falls back on the individual. It's how much you decide to practice. Giving a hypothetical and cutting out the learning curves. Let's say it takes 100hrs to learn something. You can do that 100 hrs in 3 weeks, or 3 years. 

So all of this starts with the person, not the school he/she chooses.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 8, 2011)

Redregon said:


> also, and this is more a question, really, but how many times have you seen or heard of people getting "wow, that's awesome" when they really should be getting "your structure is off, proportions are wonky and your anatomy is bad?" a teacher is paid to be bluntly honest (again, with any school that's worth their salt.) and to teach.


 
A lot actually, because I often asked. It depends where you post. I also have a network of peers I use to get crits. Read Art & Fear. Since you edited the post from simply "prove it" to more, I am addressing it. I have also been to schools where it does not only what you described, but the polar opposite and insulted the student instead of being a peer.

I did address the issue, tho not directly. The degree is mostly for teaching, getting a job via visa is dependent on need. We got a lot of artists here.


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## Moonstarsun (Mar 16, 2011)

explore non-anime industry level artists.


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## Inky Neko (Mar 16, 2011)

I have to say the life drawing I did in school helped me improve a lot. Also, as far as the whole school discussion goes, I personally did not go to a big art school. I went to a small college with a nice art program. If school is an option for you, go to open houses and meet the professors. Find a school with professors you think you can talk to and who will help you.
I've been struggling pulling away from an anime style myself for the last few years. Something aside from the already suggested drawing from life, find an artist with a non-anime style that you really like. Browse their gallery. Let them inspire you. Better yet, find a few artists, with a variety of styles. I'm not saying to copy them of course, but regardless of if it's conscious or not, their style will start to influence yours after a while.


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## Saeto15 (Mar 17, 2011)

I have a degree from a relatively small art college.  I'm really wishing I hadn't gone, but that's mostly because of the ridiculous amounts of money I owe.  Otherwise, I did find the experience informative, but the fact is, art school isn't going to help the people who don't really have the drive to succeed.  

Art is a hard business, and that's definitely an understatement.  The internet is the best and worst thing to have happened to the art field- it helps unknown artists from all over the world get exposure, but it also led to a heavily competitive market.  There are just too many artists out there for everyone to succeed.  Having a degree probably helps in certain fields, but the portfolio is, in the end, the second largest factor in getting a job.  The first is knowing the right people, unfortunately.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 18, 2011)

Please note, and it may not have been expressed very well in my posts but: 

Getting an art education is different than getting a degree. It's not discounting courses one should take to learn art, but discounting that you need to stick with one school or outlet to learn. Or rather that you have to get a degree. 

I've seen life drawing classes held in community areas and not just schools. Ateliers are another options, and there are studios that allow open sessions too for example. You can take some online courses too. However, for life drawing, I highly recommend actual studios or live models, instead of looking through your monitors


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## Angelus-Mortis (Mar 21, 2011)

I can't provide any real advice for getting into the industry, so the only comment I can offer is one for which is necessary for doing realism: When people say that "cannot" doesn't exist in art, that's only true to the extent that composition, anatomy, perspective and lighting are all a part of physics and math. In other words, "cannot" applies when you're dealing with the more technical aspects of realism, but not so for what you want to draw, or whatever it is you can imagine.

Anatomy follows specific rules, and in order to be good at it, you need to do lots of life drawings and look at reference images.
Perspective follows geometry, so if you understand it, you'll have an easier time trying to figure out how it should look.
Lighting is really just light physics. If you can understand how light falls on objects and casts shadows, you'll have an easier time trying to figure out how to shade something.

By no means do you have to be a math or physics major to understand all that; life drawings and references are often enough. Just throw away whatever misconceptions you have about how to draw what you used to draw and rely on what you see.
And above all: Be receptive to criticism. You'll always hit a snag here and there that you can't figure out on your own.
If you become unhappy with what you drew previously, you've succeeded. If you become unhappy with someone else's drawings that you used to think were great, you've also succeeded.


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