# am I the only person in the world that hates disney?



## Fruitythebeetle (Dec 20, 2018)

no seriously, nowadays I just hate disney as a company. they've been doing dumb shit as of late with all these reboots to old stuff. sure not all of what they do are bad like the ducktales reboot. but it's far outnumbered with by the numbers films that feel boring and safe. i'm not insisting disney should be doing edgy shit in order to grab me but perhaps they should tone the formulaic plot structure they've been doing with their more original works. 

mostly modern disney though. some of their older fare still hold up today.  it doesn't help that i can't even see the "disney" art style the same why again. Everytime i see folks draw i die inside. a shame, it's the closest i got to something appealing that competes with anime.


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## Infrarednexus (Dec 20, 2018)

The remakes will never beat the originals


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## Fruitythebeetle (Dec 20, 2018)

Infrarednexus said:


> The remakes will never beat the originals




damn straight.


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## CrookedCroc (Dec 20, 2018)

You are not alone.
I feel like Disney has been getting pretty complacent over the years, they no longer try to make something fun nor creative, it is just an endless sea of reboots, remakes and sequels.

Disney used to be a hallmark of quality animation, now they are nothing more than another big company trying to obtain as many IPs as legally possible just to maximize profit.

Meanwhile the hopes and dreams of talented individuals go unnoticed because everyone is busy watching Star Wars Episode 12 : Electric Boogaloo and Avengers: Battle for Bikini Bottom 2


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## Fruitythebeetle (Dec 20, 2018)

and you know what sucks? there's not that many indie animated flims with a simlar length with a few exceptions.


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## CrookedCroc (Dec 20, 2018)

That's because animation takes a lot of money and time to make.
Just look at The Thief and the Cobbler. It was an indie animated film made by Richard Williams (animation director of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"), it was supposed to be his masterpiece but it got stuck on production for over 30 years, it was later bought and "finished" by some other company just to later be "actually finished" using animation cells found in the trash.

The animation industry is a cutthroat world


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## Alv (Dec 20, 2018)

It's getting pretty tiresome to see a bunch of remakes instead of original quality content. It feels like the big companies are ultimately chasing profits over interesting and compelling new content. It's unfortunate that it's come to this. 

However we also have to blame the geneal populous for being completely lacking in discernment for viewing material. 

And imo most of the Star Wars redoes were jokes, as well. The first one with the Really Big Death Star was a complete, cringey joke, and this is coming from someone who adores the main Star Wars films.


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## CrookedCroc (Dec 20, 2018)

Alv said:


> It's getting pretty tiresome to see a bunch of remakes instead of original quality content. It feels like the big companies are ultimately chasing profits over interesting and compelling new content. It's unfortunate that it's come to this.
> 
> However we also have to blame the geneal populous for being completely lacking in discernment for viewing material.
> 
> And imo most of the Star Wars redoes were jokes, as well. The first one with the Really Big Death Star was a complete, cringey joke, and this is coming from someone who adores the main Star Wars films.



Got some good news for you my man.
Disney got the message and they are putting the whole franchise on "rest" because they want "to let the fandom heal".
No more movies after episode 9.
http://archive.is/94WcR

Also, I've seen a clip (can't find the source) of Kyle Newman saying that a lot of Hollywood producers secretly hate SW:TLJ, he even says that a lot of the journalist defending it are paid to do so. If I see the clip again or find the source I'll post it here


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## Yakamaru (Dec 20, 2018)

Star Wars ended up in the shitter and the last movie will close the door to the bathroom after someone's left a big stinker. Without flushing.

Disney is slowly dying, and so are a lot of other companies as well.


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## Fruitythebeetle (Dec 20, 2018)

After there all die...what now? Will the internet crush and burn? We got no entertainment for years?


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## Yakamaru (Dec 20, 2018)

If they all die others will take their place. If there is a need for entertainment someone/something will rise to fill that need. 

We already have a ton of entertainment. There just won't be anything new for a while, possibly.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 22, 2018)

Damn, and here I was thinking everyone loved Disney movies. To each, their own, however.

In my opinion, Disney performs best when it develops movies with original ideas and plots. Zootopia was emblematic of how Disney can still make original movies that perform well at the box office and actually you for a few hours. That and little movie no has ever heard of called Frozen, though I haven't seen it and really don't plan to, short of being kidnapped and forced to. There are plenty of kids and parents who saw those movies and approved. Plus, Zootopia made more than a billion dollars at the box office. That should be a statement that when it comes to family entertainment, Disney can put out a original blockbuster.

Even for more adult-focused entertainment, Disney has been putting out relatively well-written hits, especially with its Marvel Cinematic Universe. All of those movies have over-performed in the box-office, period. The newest Star Wars trilogy could have been better, I can admit that, but they were still alright and have a place in the canon. My main problems with this latest trilogy is that the movies are not stand-alones and each installment is tightly linked with the previous ones. Yes, many movies are made with sequels in mind, but it could have been less blatant here. Personally, I liked the Star Wars prequel trilogy more than the originals since they explored the Star Wars universe in a thorough manner and with greater special effects than the original trilogy. The characterization and writing in the prequel trilogy was much better than the writing in the original trilogy, particularly in Revenge of the Sith, which may or may not have been ghost-written by Tom Stoppard.

As for the anthology Star Wars films, Solo could've been better, but Rogue One shattered my expectations of it. The writing for Rogue One produced a movie that brutally deconstructed the Rebel Alliance and the Galactic Empire, showed war in a more realistic manner uncharacteristic for Star Wars, had sympathetic characters, and ended with a conclusion that was inevitable in more ways than one. The film also happened to do well.

So I would say Disney is alive and well. I'd actually buy stock in the company and am very excited for their future projects.

By the way, could y'all articulate exactly what turns you off about Disney? I don't hear this often.


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## Cannabiskitty (Dec 26, 2018)

Unicon said:


> Damn, and here I was thinking everyone loved Disney movies. To each, their own, however.
> 
> In my opinion, Disney performs best when it develops movies with original ideas and plots. Zootopia was emblematic of how Disney can still make original movies that perform well at the box office and actually you for a few hours. That and little movie no has ever heard of called Frozen, though I haven't seen it and really don't plan to, short of being kidnapped and forced to. There are plenty of kids and parents who saw those movies and approved. Plus, Zootopia made more than a billion dollars at the box office. That should be a statement that when it comes to family entertainment, Disney can put out a original blockbuster.
> 
> ...



Four words. Song of the South.


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## Miles Marsalis (Dec 27, 2018)

Cannabiskitty said:


> Four words. Song of the South.


That was definitely not their best production and thankfully they've moved on from that.


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## Simo (Dec 27, 2018)

I really love many of the things they did from the 1930s-1990s. But I find they've grown stale.

Also as a long time comics fan it's crazy to me how big of a monopoly they've become gobbling up Marvel , Star Wars and other companies like The Blob. It seems like too much for one company to control and I find it a bit creepy.


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## Fallowfox (Dec 27, 2018)

I don't really watch disney animations so I can't really tell? 

I guess they own Marvel and Starwars. I feel there have been too many Marvel films, and I fell asleep in the last Starwars that I watched. 

Lindsay Ellis has loads of videos about Dinsey plots if that's the sort of thing you like:


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## Tendo64 (Dec 27, 2018)

I do like _some _modern Disney films (Wreck-it-Ralph and Zootopia are the best movies ever IMO) but I don't blame you for not liking them as a company. I'm not sure how to feel about them either because you know they're doing this all for the money. You look back and sequels weren't even made I don't think until the nineties when animation was starting to be taken seriously. And now Disney takes all their hard work and throws it in the trash by making live-action remakes of all their movies and says "never mind guys, animation can never be as good as live-action amirite?" which kinda kills what I've always stood for. 

That's why I'm a Pixar person. They aren't perfect either but at least they still _try _and the only actually bad Pixar movie I can think of is Cars 2.


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## Cannabiskitty (Dec 27, 2018)

Disney is basically a giant gumbo with pretty much everything in it. Basically if youre going to eat a Disney gumbo you have to do it without actually looking at your food lest you find a piece of misogyny or some racism in your bowl.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Dec 27, 2018)

It's really formulaic, but it can be enjoyable. 

I prefer anime tbh.

Zootopia was overall great, but had some moments that glorified dirty police work. 

Nothing is without flaws though.


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## PercyD (Dec 27, 2018)

*Internet voice* Actually, anime was inspired by Disney-

I get what you're saying, honestly. I just went on a cruise and there was a Disney boat right next to us. They've really lost the original vision of creating properties that also appeals to the wonder that adults still have as well. Its why I used to get excited about Disney since it didn't talk down to me as a kid. And I still really feel like the old stuff holds up because of this train of thought. Its some of the reason why anime (is... was?) the way it was. The appeal of animation is you can create whole new worlds that inspire people. 

-Now they're exploiting little girls with this whole Princess line. *Dead pan.*


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## AppleButt (Dec 27, 2018)

I still like Disney when they put out some new stuff.  Zootopia was the shit.  

But the sequels and remakes are wearing me out as well.


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## Cannabiskitty (Dec 27, 2018)

I would agree that overall the actual films and properties Disney has put out in the last decade has been pretty good when it comes to high profile IPs like Princess and the Frog, Zootopia, etc.


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## JZLobo (Dec 31, 2018)

You're not alone.

Look I love me some superheroes and I'm enjoying the hell out of the Marvel movies and I even think The Last Jedi was in the top 3 Star Wars movies. But I have mixed feelings about giving Disney my money and I absolutely despise their current business practices. I loathe how they're trying to form a monopoly on entertainment media. It's... well, it's evil-overlord-levels of ambition, and despicably hypocritical given how they try to put forward this false image of family-friendly benevolence, while at the same time capitulating to Nazis. (Hashtag rehire James Gunn.)

And honestly, I find myself suspicious of anyone who _doesn't_ regard Disney with a cynical eye. Maybe it's because I was so hardcore into Mickey Mouse as a kid and I always associated the shattering of that illusion with part of my growing up. Maybe because my lifelong abuser has always been obsessed with Disney and Mickey Mouse herself. But I've even found myself swiping left on dating apps when I see a woman is hardcore into Disney. Maybe it's hypocritical of me when I still hold on to my Transformers and superhero fandoms, but even as a kid I knew those existed just to sell toys and make money. I never got swept up in this false idealized "magic" like Disney tries to do. Disney just feels so culty and its modern incarnation is just riding on the reputation of a dead man's corpse.


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## Simo (Jan 1, 2019)

Also of note: they pay their park workers crap wages; at Disneyland and Disneyworld, many full time workers have to sleep in their cars, because Disney, despite the billions it makes, can't afford to even pay a living wage. Makes me wonder who the evil witch is, after all...I want nothing to do with anything Disney does anymore, and refuse to give them one thin dime. If I never have to suffer through another Star Wars movie, or horrible Marvel adaptation, all the better.

www.chicagotribune.com: Three-quarters of Disneyland employees can’t afford basic living expenses: survey

www.nytimes.com: Walt Disney World Workers Reach Deal for $15 Minimum Wage by 2021

Even with these increases, I still don't see how one is to make a living, with today's cost of rent/food/gas/utilities....


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## Infrarednexus (Jan 1, 2019)

Simo said:


> Also of note: they pay their park workers crap wages; at Disneyland and Disneyworld, many full time workers have to sleep in their cars, because Disney, despite the billions it makes, can't afford to even pay a living wage. Makes me wonder who the evil witch is, after all...I want nothing to do with anything Disney does anymore, and refuse to give them one thin dime. If I never have to suffer though another Star Wars movie, or horrible Marvel adaptation, all the better.


Oddly enough, I have heard one of my friends say that they knew someone who worked at Disneyworld/Disneyland that was satisfied with their job their. I never believed it though. Disney once started out as a cartoonist with a cute mouse and turned into one of the most powerful corporations in the world. Enough people say that they are concerned with the conditions of working at these them parks, but it would be nearly impossible to win a court case with all the lawyers and tricks the Disney empire has.

They may have made some wonderful cartoons and movies, but that's no excuse for treating their workers so poorly and lying about it.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jan 1, 2019)

Simo said:


> Also of note: they pay their park workers crap wages; at Disneyland and Disneyworld, many full time workers have to sleep in their cars, because Disney, despite the billions it makes, can't afford to even pay a living wage. Makes me wonder who the evil witch is, after all...I want nothing to do with anything Disney does anymore, and refuse to give them one thin dime. If I never have to suffer through another Star Wars movie, or horrible Marvel adaptation, all the better.
> 
> www.chicagotribune.com: Three-quarters of Disneyland employees can’t afford basic living expenses: survey
> 
> ...


*gasps* How dare you question the CEO of Disney all they want is to have money to spend on having a yacht within a yacht and gloat about spending money on frivolous items. /snark /sarcasm


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## Baalf (Jan 3, 2019)

If I'm a man can I just be brutally honest? Disney was always a prick.


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## BackPaw (Jan 4, 2019)

Infrarednexus said:


> Oddly enough, I have heard one of my friends say that they knew someone who worked at Disneyworld/Disneyland that was satisfied with their job their. I never believed it though. Disney once started out as a cartoonist with a cute mouse and turned into one of the most powerful corporations in the world. Enough people say that they are concerned with the conditions of working at these them parks, but it would be nearly impossible to win a court case with all the lawyers and tricks the Disney empire has.
> 
> They may have made some wonderful cartoons and movies, but that's no excuse for treating their workers so poorly and lying about it.


I used to work at Disney, admittedly in the TV channels rather than the parks.

I'd go back in a heartbeat if I could.  It was FUN! working there.  That beats a lot of stuff IMO.


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## Infrarednexus (Jan 4, 2019)

BackPaw said:


> I used to work at Disney, admittedly in the TV channels rather than the parks.
> 
> I'd go back in a heartbeat if I could.  It was FUN! working there.  That beats a lot of stuff IMO.


I'm glad you had a good experience and enjoyed it.


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## Marius Merganser (Jan 4, 2019)

The Disney  movie stuff doesn't really interest me much, but I grew up watching the Disney Afternoon cartoon block on TV (Ducktales, Rescue Rangers, Darkwing Duck, Gummi Bears etc).

Since then, the new Ducktales is probably my favorite cartoon of all time and they had Star Wars Rebels, Star Vs. Forces of Evil, Tron Uprising, Gravity Falls,  and the new Mickey Mouse shorts which were all really good.  Looking forward to the upcoming Owl House animated series, too.

(Did I mention I like cartoons?)


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## Skychickens (Jan 8, 2019)

As a company? It's terrible and not gonna argue that. They treat their staff _horribly._ Most animators are not treated well or paid well or generally accepted for all the intense work they do, but my god is Disney horrible at it for a company that so strongly pushes "the magic."

The thing I personally hate about them, somewhere around the same level as that, is the fact that you get some _great_ movies nominated for the animation awards and chances are they're winning on grounds of they're DISNEY.

Did you know studio Ghibli has only won one Annie? And they're owned by disney, but they weren't their blockbuster. Some really good, really influential, really risky, really record-breaking movies like Persepolis which was a French multicultural _marvel _or Secret of Kells/Song of the Sea both of incorporated mythology and culture and stunningly unique animation, or hell even Kubo which broke records for the largest rig used were overshadowed by that year's Disney blockbuster. And the judges have admitted to rarely even watching all the nominations, they just go with either what their kids liked or what the big studios were producing. 

But I am trash and if it's an animated movie I wanna see it.

My two cents on the matter.


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## Sarachaga (Jan 8, 2019)

I kinda agree. While I wouldn't say I hate everything that the company does, I think they're playing it too safe and they are kinda formulaic. Marvel movies are a prime example , but I also get that vibe from some of their more recent animation films.


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## Keefur (Jan 8, 2019)

My friend who lives here with me used to work at Disneyworld in various jobs, and often as a costume performer.  He loved it.  He has never said anything was blatently bad about it.


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## David Drake (Jan 9, 2019)

I have a...complicated relationship with Disney. I love 80-90% of their creative output (including the parks), but the business side of things can be downright evil. It's hard to reconcile. The monopoly must be stopped but I want them to keep making childhood dreams for generations.


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## Fruitythebeetle (Jan 10, 2019)

yea, I do admit I usually do enjoy some of their more creative works. but they barely hold a candle to more interesting animated movies that are coming out. but hey, i'm a massive hipster, what do I know?


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## MyMonkeyLife (Jan 20, 2019)

No, I also have a negative view towards Disney.

My main issue is how they basically gave up (and helped kill) 2D animated films in cinema. Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy the Pixar/Dreamworks/modern Disney CGI stuff and it even serves its own purpose, but having recently re-watched both 'Brother Bear' and its (direct to DVD) sequel, and 3D doesn't even compare.

I don't know why, but there is something about 2D animation that is magical...

Although even if they don't do the CGI/3D animation then (as others have already pointed out) they do the live action remakes. I don't know why, but it's so infuriating seeing them give up on what made Disney so good back in the day. I understand wanting to push boundaries with technology, but maybe we haven't fully explored 2D animation like we thought we have? It's just disappointing =/

There's other issues I have with Disney, like others have pointed out.



JZLobo said:


> Look I love me some superheroes and I'm enjoying the hell out of the Marvel movies and I even think The Last Jedi was in the top 3 Star Wars movies. But I have mixed feelings about giving Disney my money and I absolutely despise their current business practices. I loathe how they're trying to form a monopoly on entertainment media. It's... well, it's evil-overlord-levels of ambition, and despicably hypocritical given how they try to put forward this false image of family-friendly benevolence, while at the same time capitulating to Nazis. (*Hashtag rehire James Gunn*.)



Yeah, I love Marvel as well. I can't tell you how stoked I was for Guardians of the Galaxy 3 until that drama with James Gunn occurred that I realized how problematic Disney has the potential to be in the future. I mean, they're going to acquire the rights to all of Fox's films/animation/shows, and take up their share of the movie business. 

That's actually really messed up if you think about it. If Disney decides they don't want to work with you anymore than you are out of a big chunk of the industry.


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## CrookedCroc (Jan 20, 2019)

Haven't seen anyone mention this.

Around the end of December a YouTube channel released a fan film about Darth Vader, they didn't accept donations or monetized the video in order to avoid breaking any laws. Despite this Disney copyrighted their video and monetized it just to squeeze more money.
After that SW fans made a huge boycott against EP 9. Luckily Lucasfilm intervened and lifted Disney's claim

Here's the story if you guys are interested 
movieweb.com: Lucasfilm Saves Darth Vader Fan Film from Disney Copyright Claim


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## Keefur (Jan 20, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> Haven't seen anyone mention this.
> 
> Around the end of December a YouTube channel released a fan film about Darth Vader, they didn't accept donations or monetized the video in order to avoid breaking any laws. Despite this Disney copyrighted their video and monetized it just to squeeze more money.
> After that SW fans made a huge boycott against EP 9. Luckily Lucasfilm intervened and lifted Disney's claim
> ...



I think this was a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.  Many companies/individuals that own properties don't allow fan fiction because then fans can claim that their ideas were stolen if the "official" property ideas are similar to something the fan(s) have published.


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## Fruitythebeetle (Jan 22, 2019)

MyMonkeyLife said:


> No, I also have a negative view towards Disney.
> 
> My main issue is how they basically gave up (and helped kill) 2D animated films in cinema. Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy the Pixar/Dreamworks/modern Disney CGI stuff and it even serves its own purpose, but having recently re-watched both 'Brother Bear' and its (direct to DVD) sequel, and 3D doesn't even compare.
> 
> ...





Ya know what's funny? 2d animation has a lot of potential especially with all these fancy new things going. now, i like both 3d and 2d or animation in general and with new advances in tech, why isn't disney taking advantage of it? hell, you can try re-hire (some) of the 2d animators they threw out. but knowing how greedy disney has became, it's not gonna happen.


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## MyMonkeyLife (Jan 22, 2019)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> Ya know what's funny? 2d animation has a lot of potential especially with all these fancy new things going. now, i like both 3d and 2d or animation in general and with new advances in tech, why isn't disney taking advantage of it? hell, you can try re-hire (some) of the 2d animators they threw out. but knowing how greedy disney has became, it's not gonna happen.


Yeah, it's kind of to the point where I hope Warner Brothers or some other big studio decides to put out a 2D animated film, gets a SMASH HIT, and then Disney are the one scrambling to play catch up. Kind of like Disney right now, and how they are riding off of the current success of the MCU and its shared universe.

Even anime (if given a proper theatre run time) could probably show them what for when it comes to 2D animation.


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## Dat Wolf (Jan 31, 2019)

Lets remember for a sec disney owns ESPN and Marvel.... disney movies like tOy StOrY 4 ffs are gonna be crap. But you can't say anything disney is bad. You discredit the almighty father thanos...


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## Fruitythebeetle (Feb 1, 2019)

Dat Wolf said:


> Lets remember for a sec disney owns ESPN and Marvel.... disney movies like tOy StOrY 4 ffs are gonna be crap. But you can't say anything disney is bad. You discredit the almighty father thanos...


toy story didn't need a fourth movie imo.


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## Dat Wolf (Feb 1, 2019)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> toy story didn't need a fourth movie imo.


thank you someone who actually agrees with me _high 5_


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## Cannabiskitty (Feb 1, 2019)

Disney is awesome. The only thing more awesome than Disney is Nintendo.

Nah I take it back. It goes Disney, and then Nintendo and then Warner Bros.

No no no scratch that. Warner, then Disney then Nintendo.


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## Fruitythebeetle (Feb 1, 2019)

Cannabiskitty said:


> Disney is awesome. The only thing more awesome than Disney is Nintendo.
> 
> Nah I take it back. It goes Disney, and then Nintendo and then Warner Bros.
> 
> No no no scratch that. Warner, then Disney then Nintendo.


and it's cool that you enjoy disney. i just hate how it became as a company, then again, everything has it's flaws.


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## Pipistrele (Feb 1, 2019)

Cannabiskitty said:


> Disney is awesome. The only thing more awesome than Disney is Nintendo.
> 
> Nah I take it back. It goes Disney, and then Nintendo and then Warner Bros.
> 
> No no no scratch that. Warner, then Disney then Nintendo.


Nintendo does legitimately great stuff though, so I wouldn't want to see them go


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## Fruitythebeetle (Feb 1, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> Nintendo does legitimately great stuff though, so I wouldn't want to see them go


i like some of their ips like splatoon but nintendo was aruably my frekaing childhood.


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## Cannabiskitty (Feb 1, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> Nintendo does legitimately great stuff though, so I wouldn't want to see them go



"Can't fix that, better off dead."

Naw I love Ninetendo. Well, I love Super Mario 64.


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## andoknee (Feb 9, 2019)

yes


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Feb 11, 2019)

I really hate what they've done to Star Wars. But I am still happy something new is out there.


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## FodderForGayBirds (Jul 28, 2019)

I love Disney when it does cartoons and animations. Even some of their worst performing movies I did love. Treasure Planet and Atlantis: The Lost Empire anyone? Lilo and Stitch? The 2000's were more experimental (because it was a sode studio making 2D animations. Problem was Disney basically killed 2D animation slowly by not marketing well for their side studio's more interesting works to get big. Princess and the Frog only did somewhat poorly due to marketing decisions. Granted, most people remember the voodoo villain but some people still love movies like Hercules despite its many faults and complete lack of accuracy. I am just rambling now.


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## Nyro46 (Jul 28, 2019)

I love old Disney cartoon movies. Not all of them, but a fair share I grew up with. My favourites are probably Winnie the Pooh and the Fox and the Hound. Others I remember were the Lion King, 101 Dalmatians, the really old Mickey Mouse cartoons, Alice in Wonderland, and some others. Also watched a lot of those weird spin-off Disney shows as a kid which probably weren't so great now, but liked them as a kid (Goof Troop and the Timon & Pumbaa show come to mind). 

But I agree that Disney has been a bit soft with some of its stuff lately, and don't get me started on the remakes. Most of the Disney movies I've seen lately for cartoons have been kinda more or less "meh" with me, Zootopia I probably liked the most but probably because of the animals. (Also I've never been super into the princess movies). But even then, I don't LOVE Zootopia. I would have way preferred the darker original plot they had. Plus, I really liked Koslov in the original script . . . but his character was entirely nerfed in the remake. (And that scene with his son's birthday party actually made me tear up a bit).


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## WXYZ (Jul 28, 2019)

Strangely, the Disney film I liked the most came from its supposed "Dark Era," that being The Great Mouse Detective. The other ones I liked were Alice in Wonderland, The Rescuers Down Under, and Treasure Planet. I have no fond memories of the 90s era, which, honestly, looked like Disney took notes with The Little Mermaid and ran off with its template until Pixar came on the scene. I didn't like Frozen as well, especially when the prince did an unconvincing 180-degree turn when he found out he could take advantage of the situation. I'd like to watch some of its 70s films, though.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Jul 28, 2019)

Manchesterite said:


> Strangely, the Disney film I liked the most came from its supposed "Dark Era," that being The Great Mouse Detective. The other ones I liked were Alice in Wonderland, The Rescuers Down Under, and Treasure Planet. I have no fond memories of the 90s era, which, honestly, looked like Disney took notes with The Little Mermaid and ran off with its template until Pixar came on the scene. I didn't like Frozen as well, especially when the prince did an unconvincing 180-degree turn when he found out he could take advantage of the situation. I'd like to watch some of its 70s films, though.


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## Vinfang (Aug 19, 2019)

The Mickey mouse overlord has went too far.they brought star wars from George Lucas, then ruined it for everyone! Although the prequels have a weak plot and acting, at least they expanded the universe, and shown us how awesome space battle and colorful planets / lore could be.


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## AlexJMurphy1982 (Dec 1, 2019)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> no seriously, nowadays I just hate disney as a company. they've been doing dumb shit as of late with all these reboots to old stuff. sure not all of what they do are bad like the ducktales reboot. but it's far outnumbered with by the numbers films that feel boring and safe. i'm not insisting disney should be doing edgy shit in order to grab me but perhaps they should tone the formulaic plot structure they've been doing with their more original works.
> 
> mostly modern disney though. some of their older fare still hold up today.  it doesn't help that i can't even see the "disney" art style the same why again. Everytime i see folks draw i die inside. a shame, it's the closest i got to something appealing that competes with anime.


What about Zootopia? and the remakes are halfassed and lazy.


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## Syrup The Fox (Jan 4, 2020)

Yeah, Disney now is awful. The first signs of Disney becoming bad is CP shutting down... Then CPI... and they just started to become money hogs. They started to make the remakes and all that stuff. They just want money rn.


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## MaelstromEyre (Jan 4, 2020)

Disney used to be a lot more fun, it wasn't so preachy about social justice issues in all of its movies.

At least, it was subtle about stuff.

They started getting kind of big-headed in the nineties, I really noticed it when Pocahontas was released and they were really pushing the "look how socially aware we are" image.  Brother Bear, Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Tarzan all kind of pushed it, instead of just being entertaining.  Honestly, even Zootopia got pretty preachy.

Other studios have done similar things - like SING! with its all animal cast - without trying to make it a social awareness message about inclusion and acceptance.  It just was.  And it was fun.

The remakes have been entirely disappointing.  Seriously, stop already.  

Now, with Star Wars and Marvel under Disney control, I feel like it's impossible for the company to have a single original idea anymore.


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## brawlingcastform (Jan 5, 2020)

_sheepishly hides his enormous Disney Blu-Ray library, Disney Infinity figurines, Disney pins and Disney+ account_


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## Z-ro (Jan 5, 2020)

Disney is the wonderland for kids and hell for parents 
Do I hate it for buying Marvel and fox?
Sure, do I hate them as a greedy shady organization that is trying to buy the whole entertainment industry, yeah 
But do I hate them overall, nope 
I hate myself more than I can hate Disney


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## Z-ro (Jan 5, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Disney used to be a lot more fun, it wasn't so preachy about social justice issues in all of its movies.
> 
> At least, it was subtle about stuff.
> 
> ...


Preach them facts!


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## brawlingcastform (Jan 5, 2020)

I guess I shouldn't mention that I've seen every Pixar movie in theaters, from "Toy Story" in 1995 all the way to "Toy Story 4" last June, and that I intend to keep up my "Pixar Streak" with the upcoming "Onward" (which mom plans to see because she loves Tom Holland) and "Soul".


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## Judge Spear (Jan 8, 2020)

I can't stand modern Disney outside of exclusively the MCU. But Disney was godlike all through the 1900's.


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## Canis Dirus (Jan 9, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> The remakes have been entirely disappointing. Seriously, stop already.


Oh, and talking about remakes:


> The creators of TaleSpin treated the dieselpunk setting and aviation with great respect. Although it’s a little cartoonish, designs from real life are easily recognized in airplanes. The authors do not hesitate to show aerial fights and shootings (although sometimes opponents throw cakes and bananas at each other), and sometimes even let in a little noir atmosphere, without which dieselpunk is also inconceivable.
> 
> Unfortunately, the time when Disney could afford such "courage" has passed. The world of TaleSpin was included in the Duck Tales universe and even showed a new vision of air pirates, who now instead of air fights win by dancing and concert numbers. There is no need to talk about aircrafts drawing, it is terrible.


warhead.su: Диснеевский дизельпанк: авиация в сериале «Чудеса на виражах»


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## volkinaxe (Jan 9, 2020)

liked all old stuff


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jan 9, 2020)

*Going to rip the nostalgia glasses off of everyone.*

Disney has always been garbage, and people are barely starting to see it since their buyout of Fox.


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## Baalf (Jan 11, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> *Going to rip the nostalgia glasses off of everyone.*
> 
> Disney has always been garbage, and people are barely starting to see it since their buyout of Fox.



I would not go that far. It just sounds like you're biased.


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## Ma' Tahsarr (Jan 11, 2020)

Fruitythebeetle said:


> no seriously, nowadays I just hate disney as a company. they've been doing dumb shit as of late with all these reboots to old stuff. sure not all of what they do are bad like the ducktales reboot. but it's far outnumbered with by the numbers films that feel boring and safe. i'm not insisting disney should be doing edgy shit in order to grab me but perhaps they should tone the formulaic plot structure they've been doing with their more original works.
> 
> mostly modern disney though. some of their older fare still hold up today.  it doesn't help that i can't even see the "disney" art style the same why again. Everytime i see folks draw i die inside. a shame, it's the closest i got to something appealing that competes with anime.


I don't hate them, but they have been doing a bad job at making movies lately. Can't even remember the last time I watched a Disney movie.


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## AlexJMurphy1982 (Apr 16, 2020)

XoPachi said:


> I can't stand modern Disney outside of exclusively the MCU. But Disney was godlike all through the 1900's.


What about Zootopia and Wreck it Ralph?


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## AlexJMurphy1982 (Apr 16, 2020)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Disney used to be a lot more fun, it wasn't so preachy about social justice issues in all of its movies.
> 
> At least, it was subtle about stuff.
> 
> ...


What about Mulan?

And do you think Lion King and Goofy movie were the last great disney films as they were about entertaining the audience right?


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## ZeroGHero (Apr 18, 2020)

No, you aren't. I wish Di$ney would stop trying to cash in nostalgia with "live-action" CGI remakes. (Isn't that contradictory?)

And then when you look historically at Di$ney, they have stolen many ideas over the years from Grimm's fairytales, or Mulan, Lion King, or many others that were adapted from stories already written and changed barely enough to call theirs. It still kills me that Di$ney thinks that they actually own the rights to Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, or other stolen materials. That is why they are running out of ideas and resorting to buying out others like Star Wars and Marvel... because they already stole everything else worth taking and that won't fly in today's copyright world.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 18, 2020)

They survive by buying out existing IPs and puking up sequels and remakes of their old, unoriginal stories (which nobody asked for). There's a lot to hate, if you think about it.


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## AlexJMurphy1982 (Apr 18, 2020)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> They survive by buying out existing IPs and puking up sequels and reboots of their old, unoriginal stories (which nobody asked for). There's a lot to hate, if you think about it.


You mean remakes not reboots as those are 2 different things


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## BunBunArt (Apr 18, 2020)

I don't hate Disney (or any others, I don't really know what hate is xD) but I agree they're doing some weird stuff, specially for the children. I don't like the new artstyle anymore.
But we have to understand that companies must survive and world is moving on. We are used to our generation and we don't like the new ones, but the kids do... kids now days don't understand the animations and movies we grew with. I don't want to get much into those details but... world changes, same as you can't compare our parents generation, different humor kind, differend drawing styles, etc... 

So I understand the disappointment but they can't stay in the same spot FOREVER, world changes, they must change as well or nobody except us and older people would watch them. And their target are mostly new generations so... that's what they have to do.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Disney went the way of many once pure productions. They turned their focus on trying to push an agenda rather than making fun things for the sake of having fun things.
> 
> I fear the furry fandom is headed towards the same downwards spiral of sitting on its high horse trying to push identity politics rather than just telling fun/wacky stories about animals.


I don't see the problem with teaching kids morals, especially now. One thing I'll say about Disney, they do that consistently in their kids' movies.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Morals are fine, it's identity politics I have a problem with.


At risk of opening a can of worms, define "identity politics" before I say anything.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Injection of ideals that would typically be seen as against the norm. In short, it's "diversity for the sake of diversity".


I mean, creators usually have diversity in their works because we generally live in a diverse world, primarily because we live in globalized world. They portray diversity because it's a fact of real world in our classrooms, offices, workplaces, and communities. There also isn't harm in kids being able to see something of themselves in the characters on the screen, either. Like, I don't see the problem of having characters of different races, religion, and ethnicity in Disney movies. All of these movies seem to do exceedingly well as too.


Daxma said:


> I'm not saying that having a diverse cast of characters and ideals is a bad thing, but they don't belong in kids' shows.


If they are not bad, then why exclude them? I doubt children are going to protest having different characters in the movies they are seeing. 


Daxma said:


> Not only is it wrong to trivialize real world issues and sell them to targeted demographics (because as we all know, big companies are our friend and REALLY care about us and our problems), they come off as preachy and ruin the whole "fun for the sake of fun" vibe.


I don't see where diversity is a world issue, though. At best, it's a social issue every society addresses to some degree, but you can have a diverse cast of characters without making an overt message that would be preachy; look at Power Rangers which was wildly successful when it came out and continues to be in its various incarnations now. I doubt you are going to say Power Ranger was heavy on the preaching. I don't get what would be less fun about having minorities in roles, really.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 22, 2020)

I think it's important that children's media represents the variety of society, because that's the real world children are going to grow up and live in. 

Children's television shows are about using stories and fables to calibrate them for the world. That's why they're full of morals about sharing, being thoughtful of others, being yourself. Accepting difference is pretty standard fair in Kids' shows.


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Diversity isn't bad, diversity for the sake of diversity is bad. The problem comes from companies making and selling diverse characters under the guise of them being diverse. Black Panther wasn't a king, he was a BLACK king. He wasn't a hero, he was a BLACK hero. Being black isn't a character trait. He was marketed as being black to get black people to buy and consume Black Panther media. It's a form of blacksploitation and it's wrong.


Ah yes, the movie that was critically acclaimed by African-American circles for actually doing more than just using "I'm Black!" to sell tickets and - if anything - was criticized for not going _*far enough*_ by them. That generally was only condensed in a tl;dr "It sold because it's black and black people buy black people stuff because they're easily duped shills" by people who... were upset it was a movie not about them for once.

But yes, I totally believe the same person who made such amazing comments as


Daxma said:


> Name a single thing a modern american does that was taken from the natives. You know, aside from living on their land.
> 
> The natives I've met seem more than happy to share their culture with whomever seems interested, just as much as they were happy to sell me their jewelry and headdresses.


In a thread wherein they actively tried to _*mock the very notion of the idea of cultural appropriation*_, is in fact the one carrying the torch to defend minority representation.

Pull the other one, it has bells and whistles. I mean, seriously: "I am not opposed to diversity, I just don't want it forced! Also Native Americans gave us nothing but their land and the real villains are the Native Americans who live on their plantations and refuse to adapt to the times / become proper Americans". 



Daxma said:


> It's absolutely ok to have a black character, or a gay character, or a whatever character, just don't sell them on that. Spawn isn't cool because he's black, he's cool because he's a demon from hell and rips guts out. Samus isn't cool because she's a woman, she's cool because she's a well rounded bounty hunter who knows how to hunt space monsters. Spiderman isn't cool because he's white, he's cool because he cracks one-liners and kicks bad guy butt.


 Nice "subtle" drag of Miles Morales Spiderman. One I'm sure is completely accidental when taken in relation to your stance on this subject matter. Also, which is is: Do you want minority characters to have it be an actually integral part of their characters, or do you want it to be something that is utterly irrelevant and can be swapped out like choice of side at a Texas Roadhouse?


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> @Attaman
> Aah, my cherry picker. Awful nice of you to show up and attempt to slander my character yet again. Just call me a nazi and be done with it, I know you want to.


You're perfectly free to address the points. Especially since, you know, _*you're the one making the arguments that Spiderman is a *__*white*_ _*hero in the first place*_, or that _*Black Panther was just shameless pandering that did nothing but say "Hey, we have a Black cast", *_or how *Samus being a woman is utterly divorced from either why people like her or her character.
*
Because I'm not slandering shit when I point to you _literally and explicitly making these arguments_.


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## ZeroGHero (Apr 22, 2020)

This is going off topic. Disney sucks because they historically stole several ideas from other cultures and currently buy IPs and run them into the dirt. This is not a thread on why diversity in movies is good/bad. It's also not for putting someone to the coals...


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> I'm the one making the argument that being a man/woman/black/white/straight/gay doesn't make someone interesting.


You explicitly - outright - said making a work diverse because you can make it diverse / want to make it diverse is bad. That Black Panter is a bad series that should be shamed because all it did was ape around "Look at this BLACK protagonist who's a BLACK hero from a BLACK society". You outright made reference to Spiderman being a _*white*_ *male *hero, even as Marvel is increasingly moving away from the Peter Parker Spiderman and towards either Gwen Stacy Spider Gwen (from the same generation of Parker) or Miles Morales (for the next generation's Spiderman), when dropping the "white male" aspect would have _only helped to make your point that Spiderman's not defined by either white-ness or male-ness_. 



ZeroGHero said:


> This is not a thread on why diversity in movies is good/bad. It's also not for putting someone to the coals...


 I mean, we aren't the ones who literally jumped into the thread to proclaim that Disney sucks because Diversity Bad and Identity Politics Bad holding a big "Debate Me" sign.


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> My argument would have been just as valid if I used Superman


 Superman is explicitly an immigrant, you realize? Like, it's been a huge plot point that he's a literal illegal migrant, to the point that several comics have beaten the audience itself bluntly over the head with this to the point of having him outright stopping "They took our jerbs" bigots up and telling them explicitly to their (and the audience's) face "I'm an illegal migrant, do you have a problem with me?"


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Yup, an alien even. But there you go again injecting politics into something that doesn't have any. Superman is just a story about a guy that can fly around real fast and punch hard.


Look at those Social Justice Warriors inserting politics where they don't belong... in, as the image copyright stamp attests, _*1950*_.


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Actually, I'd like to go one further for people who say that Superman is utterly disconnected from politics and "doesn't have any": Enjoy this fairly succinct but useful primer on Superman's Origins. Where we have the utterly "Wow cool super hero" titular character described as


> *Champion of the oppressed. The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need.”*


Where Superman was perceived as so apolitical, _Das Schwarze Korps _wrote of how his Jewish authors were aiming to brainwash the US' children to some Jewish agenda. 



Daxma said:


> And Donald Duck was in WW2 propaganda, what's your point?


 My point is:
1) You're the one who brought up this subject in the first place, as much as you're trying to now get people to drop it. You still haven't bothered to defend your commentary on Black Panther, for example.
2) It's pretty fucking blatant why you tried to use Spiderman as an example of a "white" Superhero dude (and why you tried to low-key include white in a discussion on 'identity politics' and diversity), and why you're now trying to pivot away from Superman when that example fell through.

By all means, you're free to explain how I'm in the wrong and actually Superman is totally divorced from the origins of his writers and how his being an Undocumented Interstellar Migrant is actually utterly irrelevant to his character / stories. You're free to explain what you meant about Black Panther and how it was a hamfisted effort to get people to go "Cool a black hero". You've been free to do so at any time... and yet you keep refusing to do so. And either throw out a new slab of meat or, when that fails, say we're the ones throwing the meat all along and we should stop before we embarrass ourselves.


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Because I needed a white superhero example. You completely ignored Batman.


 So to be clear for a moment, the white part actually matters now? 



Daxma said:


> Because any critique of the movie was always followed with "you just don't like it because it stars black people you racist".





Daxma said:


> Diversity isn't bad, diversity for the sake of diversity is bad. The problem comes from companies making and selling diverse characters under the guise of them being diverse. Black Panther wasn't a king, he was a BLACK king. He wasn't a hero, he was a BLACK hero. Being black isn't a character trait. He was marketed as being black to get black people to buy and consume Black Panther media. It's a form of blacksploitation and it's wrong.


Next time you want to nakedly lie about why you brought a point up, make sure it's _not literally on the same page_. Your earlier complaint with Black Panther was not that it was a bad movie being screened by "But it stars black cast members!", but an _*explicitly stated belief that it was bad because it included diversity for diversity's sake and was Blacksploitation*_.


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Nope, being white isn't a character trait. Neither is being black or a woman.


 This entire conversation started because you were arguing that they're more than a character trait and it's both bad and lazy to make somebody a minority but then do nothing with it. Or, at least, that's why you claim to have started it. That you've since gone on to argue that "Actually I don't want to talk about if Diversity is Good or Bad, that's Off Topic", to argue that Superman's origins from Jewish writers and as a force of good who stood up for the downtrodden (of whom he very much counts as part of with his Undocumented Migrant status) not only doesn't matter but is post-facto and his whole point _actually_ was just "Haha dude punch good", that you explicitly avoided characters like Miles Morales when they would have _helped made your point_ and reduced characters like Samus to "Wow cool Bounty Hunter"... almost leaves one to wonder what aspect of 'identity politics' it is you truly hold issue with.



Daxma said:


> You're still ignoring Batman.


 I don't know if you're actually this dense or you think you're being witty, but me not digging into Batman's own superhero origins _*does nothing to either justify or defend your prior commentary or detract from the points I'm making right now*_.



Daxma said:


> Those quotes don't contradict each other.


 News flash: They kind of do. You can't say your problem with _*Black Panther*_ is that it _*unnecessarily shoes in black characters just for diversity points*_ and that they're _utterly irrelevant_ to the story (Nay, that it goes so far as to verge into _Blacksploitation_, which I'll point out has an _entirely different meaning_ than "Includes black characters for marketing"), but that you can't make this argument because... people stop you... saying... it stars black people...


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## JZLobo (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Injection of ideals that would typically be seen as against the norm. In short, it's "diversity for the sake of diversity".
> 
> I'm not saying that having a diverse cast of characters and ideals is a bad thing, but they don't belong in kids' shows. Not only is it wrong to trivialize real world issues and sell them to targeted demographics (because as we all know, big companies are our friend and REALLY care about us and our problems), they come off as preachy and ruin the whole "fun for the sake of fun" vibe.


I'm half Mexican. When I was a kid in the early 90s, the only hero on TV who was "like me" was Zorro, a man from the turn of the century. I didn't even have a Power Ranger in my ethnic group. So I'm all for representation in kid's media. Nowadays, black and Jewish kids and Mexican kids can see themselves in the superhero mold, and that's something I wish I had as a kid. Diversity isn't for the sake of diversity, it's for the sake of those kids who want to see the possibility that they too can grow up to be the heroes they look up to.

You can be cynical and say the corporations are just trying to capitalize on more demographics. Because it's true. But that doesn't take away from the inspiration these kids get when they're young and still not touched by the cynicism of the adult world.


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## Attaman (Apr 22, 2020)

So, to be clear for a moment: We've gone from "Identity politics is bad because it cashes in on diversity" to "Complaining about inadequate minority representation in media is like going to a pizzaria and complaining they don't sell ball-pen hammers". Imagine my fucking surprise.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 22, 2020)

@Daxma , I had to step away, but respectfully it seems like you are looking for a reason to be contentious about diversity when it isn't a contentious for normal people or society at large. I also feel that you are trying trying to act like diversity isn't a big deal while really looking for reasons to not include in media because you actually don't want diversity in movies for ... reasons. 

Taking one example, you could have said Black Panther was poorly plotted, the characters were flat, the pacing was too fast or slow, the premise was ridiculous, or anything else. Yet the detail you practically homed in on was that the characters were black for the sake of the movie being a blaxsploitation marketed to black people and that made it not worth seeing, which is suspicious. 

Putting aside the arguments that a whole lot of people who weren't black had to see the movie for it to make $1.347 billion dollars in the domestic and international markets and that there is nothing wrong with movie companies marketing to specific demographics, Black Panther did make an very tidy profit and there is no more proof of popularity for a movie than the market. So clearly most people aren't bothered by diversity.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 22, 2020)

I meant to add that @Attaman 's and @JZLobo 's thought's mostly mirror my own as far this is concerned, as well as @Fallowfox 's.


Daxma said:


> News flash: you're arguing about identity politics on a _*FURRY FORUM*_ associated with a site famous for diaper and inflation porn. Your mother must be proud.


You bought up identity politics in a thread about Disney movies on a furry forum in first place, so let's not act like you were being apolitical here. One of the biggest problem I have with the left is being unable to take criticisms, but I swear I see it more on the right if someone disagrees you or calls you out for something suspect. You can take the criticism and not get so easily offended.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 22, 2020)

Daxma said:


> I'm not apolitical, that would imply I stand for ANY politics. I'm anti-political. There should be ZERO politics in entertainment. The second entertainment becomes political it turns into propaganda. Yes, that includes politics I agree with. I don't pretend to be a lion on the internet so people can take me seriously, I do it because it's fun.


Yet you injected politics into a conversation that was largely apolitical to begin with. Arguably I could you injected identity politics in this conversation because by arguing against diversity in children's films, by default you are arguing for a homogeneous cast, which from your perspective probably would be an all-white cast. 

Furthermore, entertainment has always had some level of political messaging or inspiration at least. Not all movies, the most of the great ones have. The Godfather Trilogy, Titanic, Avatar, Black Panther, Star Wars, Gone With The Wild all had political undercurrents. Even the most memorable children's shows like Sesame Street, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, Reading Rainbow, and Barney all had some form of social messaging. So some degree of political and social messaging has always been present. 


Daxma said:


> You're right, I should have made it clear that my problem with the movie was more than the fact that it was sold, either in part or in whole, on the fact that it stared black people.


I mean, do you have direct messaging or advertising from the studios saying that?


Daxma said:


> I did see the movie, it stunk. That's just my opinion though.


It stank, you mean. And I meant that you would tell others that it wasn't worth seeing. 


Daxma said:


> I just feel it's wrong to pander using race. It's like saying "hello fellow (demographic), it's (company) here and we really care about (problem). Here's a movie for you!".


Except they didn't because the movie did well and was well received across multiple demographics in America and even did extremely well in China. So that is some broad pandering.

Furthermore, companies go where the money is. I see similar arguments against game companies trying to be inclusive of female players.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 23, 2020)

Daxma said:


> I'm not arguing against diversity, I'm arguing that selling a movie based on the race of the cast is not only a bad idea but also morally wrong. Ghostbusters 2016 sold itself on being all woman and it stink stank stunk because it was poorly written, not because it starred women.


You say, but you said this:


Daxma said:


> Injection of ideals that would typically be seen as against the norm. *In short, it's "diversity for the sake of diversity*".
> 
> *I'm not saying that having a diverse cast of characters and ideals is a bad thing, but they don't belong in kids' shows*.


That was your opening argument.

I'll also point out that we were discussing children's shows having diversity at the time, not Black Panther, so your poor argument about being against Black Panther on grounds of it pandering to minorities doesn't apply. Nor does it apply to the myriad of movies and shows, including Disney productions, that have diverse casts and you can't make the argument they were marketing directly to minorities for. 

I would also say that most people see Black Panther as a movie rather than Black Panther, but we've established you're fixating.


Daxma said:


> No, but there's countless screencaps of people online announcing that this is "finally a super hero movie for black people" which would be to say that everything else was made for only white people. This issue was even touched on in South Park, Cartman was trying to get the black people to like him so he could say Black Panter was bad without being called a racist.


I mean, I don't see the problem with black people or any people for that matter empathizing with Black Panther as an inspirational role model or just character they liked. You seem to be trying to say that because they enjoyed the movie more, they are rejected other films as "made for white people" when a simpler and more sane explanation might be maybe they just like Black Panther more without making blanket judgements about the whole cinema history. 

I also believe the South Park episode you are citing was meant to point out that a lot of Alt-Right types go through verbal and mental gymnastics like saying they are concerned about blaxsploitation and race relations when really they just want to trash the movie for racist reasons, but are too cowardly like Cartman to own up to it. 


Daxma said:


> "Doing well" just means that people payed to go see it. I paid to see the movie and I didn't think it was great.


Yet critic and audience reviews were vastly positive and the studio's market research felt confident enough to okay not one, but two sequels. Where is this mass outcry against the movie?


Daxma said:


> That's exactly my point. They'll do anything to make money, to say that a movie is "made for you" is to imply that the company making it cares about anything but money. Disney doesn't care about black people, they care about money.


They do due philanthropic work that has helped minority communities and some of the profits from Black Panther went towards building and funding STEM education schools in Oakland, but quite frankly, it's not really Disney's job to care about the audience. Their job is make a profit. 


Daxma said:


> Disney also doesn't care about furries, but you bet your ass I'm going to pay to see Zootopia 2.


So you are on black people for playing into the pandering Disney does for Black Panther ... yet will shell out money somewhat hypocritically to see a children's movie you feel is pandering to you. 


Daxma said:


> I can see where people are coming from when they say they enjoy things that star people that look like them because I enjoy things with anthros in it, but it's a heartless cash grab no matter what demographic is being pandered to.


And with this sentence, you invalidate your own thesis.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 23, 2020)

Daxma said:


> Yup. Selling a movie based on race is racist and evil but selling a movie based on fictional anthropomorphic animals is a-ok.


That strikes as antithetical to what you said before.

But I feel you are getting hung up on Black Panther as a "black movie" as opposed to seeing as just a movie. Like, do you call movies that aren't what you see as "black movies" "white movies"?


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 23, 2020)

Daxma said:


> No, I call movies like Black Panther boring.


Clearly the box office disagreed, but to each their own. Had you started with the criticism instead of the contradictory and discriminatory argument you made earlier, nobody would've faulted you since it's okay to dislike a movie.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Apr 23, 2020)

There are over 7 billion people in the world. I am sure that you are the only one who hates disney.


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## JZLobo (Apr 23, 2020)

You know what, I'm pretty sure Daxma is just a troll given all the double standards and racism in their posts, so I'mma just ignore them from here on out.


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 23, 2020)

Leaving Daxma out of this, I just wanted one last thing, namely the "price tag on culture" issue. Presumably, if people of particular gender, race, religion, or ethnicity aren't offended or critical by their portrayals in film, that is probably worth noting unless you are part of that demographic.

Anyway, most of the Disney movies I've seen are fine for what they are and I do like even their adult films have a moral or lesson about life, which I feel is lacking in a lot of cinema nowadays. Note that my praise is confined to Disney's films; I feel they could significantly step up their labor practices, particularly in the amusement parks.


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