# My experience with Vista.



## Epsereth (Apr 26, 2007)

I got a new laptop running Vista for my birthday last week. 

Do NOT effing get Vista.

Just DON'T.

It's nothing but errors, fuckups, and lockups. Sometimes programs work and other times you're told that the same programs were never installed, or that they're illegal, or that there's an unfixable error. Sometimes drivers just disappear and need to be reinstalled. Some of my programs auto-registered without my consent. A bunch of my pictures vanished from my hard drive. It's ugly and clunky and packed with superfluous visuals that take up space and slow everything down. It won't let you rearrange your desktop. It's not compatible with iTunes. It takes three minutes to shut down. It runs slower than my 4-year-old, virus-infected HP. I left it sitting for half an hour while I took a nap, and when I came back the computer locked up for 10 minutes, wouldn't let me control my cursor, wouldn't open the Task Manager, and it had to be improperly force-shut off.

And I've only had it for a damned week.

About an hour ago I was so angry with it that I was on the verge of tears. I tried to get an account on the Windows forum so I could complain, but they wouldn't let me sign up (suspicious much?). There is not a single complaint about Vista on the entire feedback forum that I could see. 

I have no idea how Vista is legally marketable. There is not a single thing about it worth the money. I cannot get an XP OS disc because I have so many programs that were auto-registered without my consent, and I can't afford to replace them all. I don't want to have to deal with this for the next several years ... please, please take my word for it, and if you buy a new laptop, pay the extra $50 up front for XP installation.


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## crabby_the_frog (Apr 26, 2007)

Epsereth said:
			
		

> Do NOT effing get Vista.
> 
> Just DON'T.
> 
> It's nothing but errors, fuckups, and lockups. Sometimes programs work and other times you're told that the same programs were never installed, or that they're illegal, or that there's an unfixable error. Sometimes drivers just disappear and need to be reinstalled. Some of my programs auto-registered without my consent. A bunch of my pictures vanished from my hard drive. It's ugly and clunky and packed with superfluous visuals that take up space and slow everything down. It won't let you rearrange your desktop. It's not compatible with iTunes. It takes three minutes to shut down. It runs slower than my 4-year-old, virus-infected HP. I left it sitting for half an hour while I took a nap, and when I came back the computer locked up for 10 minutes, wouldn't let me control my cursor, wouldn't open the Task Manager, and it had to be improperly force-shut off.



I could of told people all that *MONTHS* ago... Oh wait, I did. 
http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5655


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## Epsereth (Apr 26, 2007)

crabby_the_frog said:
			
		

> I could of told people all that *MONTHS* ago... Oh wait, I did.
> http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5655



Then we're in agreement. Consider this a confirmation of Vista death wishes.


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## crabby_the_frog (Apr 26, 2007)

Yays!!
And I've discovered the best oxymoron ever:

Microsoft works.

*runs off laughing maniacally*


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## Aikon (Apr 27, 2007)

Epsereth said:
			
		

> I got a new laptop running Vista for my birthday last week.
> 
> Do NOT effing get Vista.
> 
> ...



I own Vista Ultimate and while I don't think it's as great as what it was supposed to be, I find a lot of the problems you state to be off the wall, or outright false.  

Let's begin what what I know for a fact:  iTunes is now compatible with Vista, 7.1.1.  In fact it always has been.  It had issues, but it worked fundimentally.  Always has, even in Rc1 and Rc2, both of which I used.  All the major issues have been ironed out with iTunes now.  And BTW so you know, it's Apple's problem not Microsoft's.

Second, you can do anything you want with the desktop.  Whatever issues you're having is with with a third-party vendor or whatever.  For instance, I have a folder that installed itself when I bought an HP Scanner, HP Share to Web.  It WILL NOT delete, ever.  It's not Vista, it's HP.  What issues are you having?   

Third, programs auto-registering?  This is more along the lines of what I could see happening, but I admit I've never heard of it.  I know there was an issue with registration popups not going away with certain programs even when do register.  I don't know on this one.  

As for things missing, there's apparently someone else using your computer, or you're moving files and forgetting, or you have some seriously f'd up hardware.  Especially pictures, maybe Vista just doesn't like the shots you took?    Seriously though, I've never heard of this.  How could it?  It's not processing your image files on a constant basis.  As for programs missing, how do you know?  Are you just typing in their name or did you actually go into the C:/program files and look?  I ask, because I installed one program (Forte' Agent) that even when I search for it or browse through my programs in the start menu, it doesn't come up.  But it's there in program files.

As for clunky, ugly, superfluous and slow... most of that is a matter of opinion.  Being slow is false, it's actually faster for Vista to render Aero over say, Basic.  Why?  Because Aero is handed off to the GPU.  Read what people have to say in the link, even the article if you want.  Read anywhere you like, Aero is faster, unless you have have a crappy video card, or your case chipset.  In the Windows Experience Index, what's your score for Graphics?    

http://digg.com/tech_news/Microsoft_Claims_Vista_s_Aero_Interface_Doesn_t_Slow_PCs

Three minute shutdown?  It CAN take that long, if it was in the middle of something intensive when you decided to shut down.  The same is true with XP or even OS X too. Although Vista does seem slightly slower than those two, I've never said "wow this is taking way longer than it should!".  Normally it only takes about 35 seconds for my little P4 to shutdown to a black screen.  IF I'm not in the middle of doing a radial spin on a 1 GB file set to 100% in Photoshop of course.  How much RAM do you have installed?  Maybe you have too many programs open at one time when you go to close.  

As for it locking up, again, I've had no issues here.  It's way more responsive than XP was, and even XP was decent.  It could be hardware related too, that is maybe your computer either your CPU or Graphics chipset is getting too hot.  I don't know how commen it is on laptops but you might want to look into it.  

A lot of these gripes are generic or off the wall just to bash MS.  If you want real Vista problems, I'll make a list of the issues I have with it.  But fair is fair, Vista IS a stable, solid upgrade to XP.  If it's not for you, sorry about your luck but just keep in mind that your problems aren't wide-spread.  You should contact tech support first before going on a anti-Vista rampage.


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## Epsereth (Apr 27, 2007)

Aikon said:
			
		

> I find a lot of the problems you state to be off the wall, or outright false.Â Â



First of all - I'm not making these problems up. I find it just ... _silly_ that you're implying that I'm _lying_ about them. I'm just going to pretend you didn't say that. I mean, really.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft either, that's yet another ridiculous assumption. I really loved my old HP running XP, and I had all hopes for the new Dell. 

I'm just reporting the problems I'm having. I'm not a computer expert by any means, but I know what should _not_ be happening, and the lockups, errors, and missing files go under that category. Nobody has been using my computer besides me. I have plenty of trustworthy anti-virus protection. I do not have too much installed. All of your accusations of mistakes I _must_ be making are off. The ad hominems are unnecessary. I was just reporting what's going on, plain and simple. And I've certainly heard almost all of the same from other people before.

Thanks.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 27, 2007)

*shrugs* my only encounter (and hopefully my last) with Vista was unpleasant, we were at a computer parts store and it was up on one of the new comps.. i decided I needed a calculator at the time ( a simple calc, shouldnt be that hard to find) and searched for a while and couldnt find one...i found the entire layout irritating and do not relish the thought of attempting to use this program on future computers.


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## sgolem (Apr 27, 2007)

I'm curious, does anyone remember what was Windows XP like when it first came out in comparison to Windows Vista?  I can imagine Vista will be a lot better in a year after there's a lot more support, but was XP having problems like this around this time after release?


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## Epsereth (Apr 27, 2007)

Orlith Nemeth said:
			
		

> *shrugs* my only encounter (and hopefully my last) with Vista was unpleasant, we were at a computer parts store and it was up on one of the new comps.. i decided I needed a calculator at the time ( a simple calc, shouldnt be that hard to find) and searched for a while and couldnt find one...i found the entire layout irritating and do not relish the thought of attempting to use this program on future computers.



Yeah, the layouts are quite different and take some getting used to, but I can imagine any major OS change would be like that. I've found that the new Word layout, while jarring at first, actually makes more practical sense. That's really the best thing about the whole update.


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## Epsereth (Apr 27, 2007)

sgolem said:
			
		

> I'm curious, does anyone remember what was Windows XP like when it first came out in comparison to Windows Vista?Â Â I can imagine Vista will be a lot better in a year after there's a lot more support, but was XP having problems like this around this time after release?



I've heard it was pretty foul at first, really, and took a lot of niggling before it got really fixed. I just can't understand how Vista would be released with so _many_ bugs. I've heard an incredibly vast array of complaints about Vista, so many in fact that Dell began offering XP again with new computers (at a price, of course). I just wish I'd known my dad was getting me Vista, cos I would have paid the extra charge. :


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## naetholix (Apr 27, 2007)

*grins* I'm here to rock the boat!

Linux user all the way!  *runs off laughing and hooting*


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## Aikon (Apr 27, 2007)

Epsereth said:
			
		

> Aikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok fine, you're not making it up.Â Â But why didn't you respond to a single question I asked?Â Â I asked questions because, believe it not, I was trying to help, or at least get you to delve a little deeper into your problems so maybe you could fix it.Â Â 

I'm not saying you're lying, and I'm sorry if you got that implication, but... pictures deleting themselves?Â Â What am I to think?Â Â That just seems off the wall to me, if only to me.Â Â 



> I don't have a problem with Microsoft either, that's yet another ridiculous assumption.



It's funny how things can be interpreted, ain't it?



> I really loved my old HP running XP, and I had all hopes for the new Dell.
> 
> I'm just reporting the problems I'm having. I'm not a computer expert by any means, but I know what should _not_ be happening, and the lockups, errors, and missing files go under that category. Nobody has been using my computer besides me.



Fair enough.



> I have plenty of trustworthy anti-virus protection.



Truthworty anti-virus?Â Â That sounds like an oxymoron.Â Â It's just I hear a lot of bad press about anti-virus software gunking up your system and whatnot, I just had to say it Â Â 



> I do not have too much installed. All of your accusations of mistakes I _must_ be making are off. The ad hominems are unnecessary. I was just reporting what's going on, plain and simple.



No, there were no ad hominemenimenims.Â Â Er, I had to look that word up. I heard of it before just no one's ever used in front of me before... eh, I hang out with dummies, and I was never brilliant with words myself.Â Â Anyway, I wasn't arguing with you to argue with you, and I was trying to address your problems.Â Â See my first response above.Â Â Sorry if you got the implication otherwise.



> And I've certainly heard almost all of the same from other people before.



What problems and where did you find other people talking about it?Â Â All I'm saying is I never heard of some of these problems before, and I'm no expert, but I poke my nose around Vista related news a lot.



> Thanks.



I'm getting the impression you didn't really mean that last bit, did you? 

I'm no expert either but, hopefully you'll agree with me on this... this was your first experience with it and there "may" be underlying problems which actually may not have anything to do with Vista itself.Â Â iTunes for exmaple (BTW what broguht that on, what problems ARE you having with iTunes anyway?), or sluggish Aero, both of which I already addresed.Â Â Or there may.Â Â Therefore, without knowing for sure... it's pretty much moot.Â Â 

Contact tech support, it's cool if you wanna report problems or whatever, but people tend to get get carried away with it (I have done it too, I won't lie). I just feel Vista has been slammed unfairly for unjust, or rather obscure or even yes, made up reasons.Â Â Meanwhile more pressing issues aren't being unaddressed.Â Â But whatever, that's my opinion, criticize me if you want.

And you know it's kinda funny, I'm disappointed in Vista like you, albeit for different reasons, and I'm saving up to buy a Mac hopefully next year.Â Â :lol:Â Â Speaking of moot points...


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## sgolem (Apr 27, 2007)

You know, now that I think about it, is it possible that the problems are due to Dell installing a bunch of crap you didn't want on it?


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## Aikon (Apr 27, 2007)

sgolem said:
			
		

> You know, now that I think about it, is it possible that the problems are due to Dell installing a bunch of crap you didn't want on it?



I read that Dell was supposed to be reducing the amount of crud they put on, which could also mean they're being choosey (though money is always the deciding factor ).  I know when they first announced it it only affected their top-of-the-line computers but that was at least 6 months ago.  Who knows?  It's a possability though.


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## eichiro_shirauna (Apr 27, 2007)

like say to all the people:

windows vista its the failed attemmpt to make a OS based on mac OS X

its really bad...and the most common problem its the permissions for all the things you make i nyour pc/laptop

and the worst problem its the DRM (in my case its the worst problem  ) 

in short: if you want somehitng like vista..buy a mac 
...or linux!!!! (the gay penguin rulz!!!!)


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## Litre (Apr 27, 2007)

Dell only started offering XP again because the users demanded it so.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 27, 2007)

Vista is like a Celebrity Whore...maybe like Paris Hilton or Pamela Anderson, you might wanna bang or think they're pretty but the personality is so wretched you don't want anything to do with them.

So I liked Vista's look, like the icons and taskbar. So I got this: http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/Vista-Transformation-Pack.shtml

and I'm happy.

I can wait on Vista, it usually takes a year or so before they get most of the irritating kinks worked out.


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## Bokracroc (Apr 28, 2007)

Vista does work, it needs shit loads of tweaking for it to work smoothly. XP has 'Plug & Play' (as in you plug it in and it's easy to get something working instead of shitloads of Vista troubleshooting and tweeking) over Vista at the moment. I won't touch Vista until another year or so. DX10 and Halo 2 isn't a good enough reason to upgrade to it yet.


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## Xonic the Fox (Apr 29, 2007)

Vista is still beta. Can't friggin' believe they released it at all. I'm gonna stick to XP or even Windows 98 for the moment. They are both much better alternatives.


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## BijouxDeFoxxe (Apr 29, 2007)

My new laptop came with vista.  I havent done much on it yet, but most of what I need to install, should work with only minor scuffles like Illustrator and Photoshop.


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## Aikon (Apr 30, 2007)

eichiro_shirauna said:
			
		

> its really bad...and the most common problem its the permissions for all the things you make i nyour pc/laptop



Eh, UAC is not that big of deal, and definately not a problem.Â Â I've been using Vista for a couple of months and didn't really feel hassled (except at the very beginning installing a whole bunch of programs).Â Â Once you have all your apps installed it's all pretty transparent, even when you do get a prompt.Â 

DRM is one of those things that I have to agree with, although it doesn't affect me too much, I can see how it will be a problem.Â Â I've a problem when Media Player won't play DVD's because I guess my player or video card or something isn't approved.Â Â Who knows, I still can't get an answer for it.Â Â I just use Power DVD 5.


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## sgolem (Apr 30, 2007)

Apparently the DRM in Vista has already been hacked.  I knew this was going to happen as soon as I heard about Vista having DRM.

Good thing too.  The DRM is the biggest issue I have with it really, and was the thing that made me regret the fact that I will probably have to get Vista on my next computer.


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## TeeGee (Apr 30, 2007)

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## Rhainor (May 1, 2007)

Epsereth said:
			
		

> I got a new laptop running Vista for my birthday last week.
> 
> Do NOT effing get Vista.
> 
> ...





			
				Aikon said:
			
		

> I own Vista Ultimate and while I don't think it's as great as what it was supposed to be, I find a lot of the problems you state to be off the wall, or outright false.
> ...



Ditto (on Aikon).  I have my comp set up to dual-boot Vista Business (it was free, and legal; otherwise I'd have Home Premium), and I've had none of Epsereth's problems.  None.  I don't use iTunes, so I can't vouch for that one, but the rest sound like user error or *non-Microsoft-software* problems.

My Vista is more stable than my XP.  If there existed a Vista driver for my dial-up modem (or if I had broadband), Vista would be my main OS, and XP the backup.

...And to those who mentioned DRM in Vista:  I haven't seen it.  I know it's there, of course, but the only time I've noticed DRM in Vista is when organizing my music library, I tried playing a song that I'd ripped from a CD *years ago* in XP *before I knew to turn off the "Copy protect ripped CD music" option* in Windows Media Player -- Since I re-installed XP, neither my XP nor my Vista has the license to play that file.  Vista is *exactly* the same as XP in this regard.


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## sgolem (May 1, 2007)

Ripping CDs isn't really the problem.  It's has more to do with having to buy a special monitor and video card to watch movies.  It's really the MPAA's fault, not Microsoft's, but it's still a huge turn off for me nonetheless, and something that might just keep me away from newer formats.

The rest of the problems, I could probably deal with.  I'm not going to have Vista any time soon, so the growing pains likely won't effect me anyway.


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## Polarity (May 14, 2007)

I think it's pretty great; but only if you do a clean install and update all of your drivers. XP has gotten to the point where it's just as stable as it can get, so right now it's not really imperative to upgrade. I really like the UI, but some of the DRM issues bother me. Like how I can't move files to or from my SD card because it's been formatted in my PS3 or video camera, I can only copy files from it. I can't format it in my computer because it's "copy-protected".


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## net-cat (May 14, 2007)

I personally am quite happy with my XP systems (Pro x64 and Tablet PC Edition,) and see little reason to upgrade at the current time. I know plenty of people who use Vista and are happy with it, though.

As with anything computer-related, your mileage may vary.

As for DRM, just don't download, buy or create DRM'd media. Vista (like XP) doesn't impose it DRM on non-DRM files. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just spreading FUD.

The only sticking point with DRM is the "no unsigned code in kernel mode" (drivers and such) policy that's present in the x64 edition. But, since you're not using the DRM anyway, you can just turn it off if you need an unsigned driver.

As for UAC, it's no different from Mac OS X or Ubuntu asking for your password when you try to make changes. The major difference is that applications written for Windows have been written to assume administrator access since for 22 years. Give it time and UAC will get less annoying. (Unix and Linux have always been multi-user environments that don't assume root. Mac OS X is a BSD Unix variant, so programs written for it don't assume root. Classic Mac applications are somewhat sand-boxed in Mac OS X, so they can't hurt the system. Much.)

Vista has only benefited me since it came out. As an XP x64 user, hardware that didn't previously have XP x64 drivers either now has them or the Vista x64 drivers can be modified to work. Of course, when x64 mal-ware starts appearing...


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## chaotikat (May 16, 2007)

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> Are you absolutely sure you want to click yes? Click Yes to proceed.
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*laughs* It's a very overbearing OS.

My main trouble right now is the lack of drivers out there :/ My tablet has no pressure sensitivity right now. I bought my PC yesterday and it drives me bonkers already. it's SO SLOW, like others said, my 4 year old PC runs a lot faster than this brand new one.

I had to uninstall a ton of junk that came with it that I didn't need nor wanted. I had to disable the virus protection, because it was protecting so well that it took 5 minutes for a webpage to open x_x

I contacted tech support, they told me I should put more RAM into it... DO WHAT? Put new RAM in a PC I bought yesterday so I can run an OS I never wanted in the first ffin place? I tried to con them into sending me a restore disk with XP, but no such luck. They flat-out told me, that A. I either buy XP or B. I put in more RAM. Then they had the nerve to ask me if I'd like to go ahead and buy some RAM from them. -_-;

I hate Vista. I don't want Vista, but I couldn't find any PCs without it.


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## net-cat (May 16, 2007)

Neh. I just picked up the academic version of Vista Business from my school's bookstore. ($90 instead of $300...) It was the 32-bit version, but I wanted the 64-bit version. Three calls to Microsoft and an hour later, I find that the key will work fine on the 64-bit version and that I just need to order (i/e: BitTorrent) the 64-bit disc.

Do they intentionally make their licensing terms incomprehensible?

(@ chaotikat: I know it's too late now, but both Dell and Gateway still sell systems with XP. Dell sells them through their website and Gateway sells them over the phone. Also, if you have Vista Business or Vista Ultimate, you have downgrade rights for XP Pro.)


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## chaotikat (May 16, 2007)

TeeGee said:
			
		

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> 
> Are you absolutely sure you want to click yes? Click Yes to proceed.
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				net-cat said:
			
		

> Neh. I just picked up the academic version of Vista Business from my school's bookstore. ($90 instead of $300...) It was the 32-bit version, but I wanted the 64-bit version. Three calls to Microsoft and an hour later, I find that the key will work fine on the 64-bit version and that I just need to order (i/e: BitTorrent) the 64-bit disc.
> 
> Do they intentionally make their licensing terms incomprehensible?
> 
> (@ chaotikat: I know it's too late now, but both Dell and Gateway still sell systems with XP. Dell sells them through their website and Gateway sells them over the phone. Also, if you have Vista Business or Vista Ultimate, you have downgrade rights for XP Pro.)



Funny, Gateway owns Emachines (they made my PC). Eh, it's a fine PC really, cheap as hell ($290, before tax, after rebates) can't complain about that! Putting more RAM in shouldn't prove to be too pricey.

I recall me cussing up a storm about XP, so surely I'll get used to Vista in time. The lack of drivers is sucky though.


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## net-cat (May 16, 2007)

chaotikat said:
			
		

> Emachines


I just died a little on the inside...


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## chaotikat (May 17, 2007)

net-cat said:
			
		

> chaotikat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know, they're cheap pieces of crap with below-standard parts 

Perfect when you're broke.

In my previous Emachines I replaced the power supply, the fans, RAM, video card etc. etc. They're a cheap PC that does what it needs to do, and you can slowly put in new stuff. I'm not brave nor skilled enough to build something from scratch, but damn am I good at Frankensteining things.

Besides, I've had less trouble with this one, than with Compaqs, HPs etc. etc.


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## net-cat (May 17, 2007)

Heh. I work in a computer shop. Here's what we see in the order of how much we see them for hardware problems.

Dell (because freaking everyone has them)
Emachines
Our cheap-o brand (because we're the official tech support for them)
Compaq
HP

*big gap*

Sony
Gateway
Our expensive brand

90% of the Emachines we get are "Won't power on" and the diagnosis is "Power supply died and took the motherboard with it."


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## The Sonic God (May 18, 2007)

But... but... Vista is so shiny... and has features from Mac OS X.


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## net-cat (May 18, 2007)

http://net-cat.ath.cx:8080/filez/OS Progression.PNG

Product of pure boredom...


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## Rhainor (May 18, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> But... but... Vista is so shiny... and has features from Mac OS X.



...And it's more stable than my XP installation.

(kinda >.=.< , kinda ^.=.^ )


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## sgolem (May 18, 2007)

The Sonic God said:
			
		

> But... but... Vista is so shiny... and has features from Mac OS X.


I'm no expert, but I believe a lot of features often credited to Apple, such as the widgets have been around long before they introduced them.


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## Bloodangel (May 18, 2007)

If it's just widgets and stuff you want, then you can get DesktopX for windows XP. That way, you get all the spangly pointless widgets without having to upgrade if you don't want to.


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## net-cat (May 18, 2007)

I don't want to upgrade. I just need to make sure that the programs I write actually work in Vista.


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## Aikon (May 19, 2007)

I've been using Vista now since late Feb early March and one posative thing I have to say about it so far is I haven't experienced "WinRot" yet, which killed my XP system as soon as a month after use.Â Â Another thing is I can go weeks without ever having to reboot whereas with XP within maybe a week I had to reboot.Â Â It keeps chugging along!

Another cool thing, no more defrag.Â Â Rather, it works in the background when you're not awake.Â Â I know a lot of geeks and pro users like the little dialouge with the percentage and graph and whatnot.Â Â I was in strong disagreement with it's exclusion when MS's plans were revealed as well, but now that I'm using Vista it's not a big issue.Â Â I never even felt I had to defrag because my drives keep running smoothly.Â Â 

The problems I have with Vista is the inconsistancy in the UI, like the misuse of fonts (which can be fixed) or *ahem* the add font dialouge (salt, meet wound).Â Â 

Plus, while backup is better than no backup, Vista's backup kinda sucks.Â Â Once your hard drive is full, you're fukked.Â Â I had to erase the whole damn thing and start over.Â Â And unlike say, Leopard, it won't replace older files or even give you options it just spits an error at you saying the disk is full.Â Â It doesn't even give you a wizard, that's so unlike Microsoft to not offer a wizard at every available oppertunity!

Weird things sometimes happen, albeit small.Â Â Flash has issues with Vista, sometimes I have to reinstall it.Â Â As does iTunes (the UI doesn't refresh sometimes, so you gotta minimize and restore once in awhile), Media Player won't play DVD's (my biggest issue with Vista), my Wacom tablet sometimes will stop working... but the thing is that these are all third-party problems.Â Â All but the Meida Player issue is addressed by third parties as their problems on their sites.

The Ultimate Extras so far have been anything but.Â Â We're still using a preview of DreamScene, buggy at that.Â Â I'm kinda miffed about that.Â Â  So far we've got a game of poker which I never play, BitLocker which I never use, and the aforementioned Dreamscene.Â Â Bah.

Overall, Vista couldn't be better in the sense that it does its main functions well.Â Â The problem I have is the new inclusions or lack thereof.Â Â Like Backup, Movie Maker and DVD Maker are sad, sad little apps.Â Â Photo Gallery is good if you don't own something like ACDSee already.Â Â Media Center is worthless to me as I already own a DVR for my Dish, but it is damn nice, I'd say it gives even Apple a run for their money in UI design.Â Â Performance wise, it's not as big a hog as some people think.Â Â It's not sluggish, and I have a P4 Northwood chip.Â Â Ram is fairly inexpensive, though it's on the rise nowadays to keep up with the pace of technology, I have 2 GB and it's fine but you could always use more.Â Â To some this is a negative point, but technology is continually requiring more processing power as more and more things are done on the PC, and more things are handled on the OS.Â Â 

So that's my long-overdue experience with Vista.Â Â I'm happy with it, though if I could go back I'd probably get the Home Premium version as Ultimate, even though I paid for OEM, isn't all that Ultimate.Â Â Once I see what Vienna is going to be like, I'll decide if or not I'm going to upgrade my PC and stay MS or kill my savings account, foreclose my house and live in my car for a new Mac.Â Â For all the new stuff and things I do like about it I'm just not as happy with Vista as I thought I would be.

My Specs:

P4 3GHz Northwood
Gigabyte 8IK1100 Mobo
Corsair CMX512-3200C2 x4
150GB WD Raptor (Windows)
160GB Seagate 7200.7 (Media)
250GB LaCie d2 External Drive (Backup)
ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB
Samsung 910T 19" Display


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## Rhainor (May 19, 2007)

Aikon said:
			
		

> ...
> As does iTunes (the UI doesn't refresh sometimes, so you gotta minimize and restore once in awhile),...



iTunes is an Apple product.  MS doesn't *want* it to work right, with good reason.



			
				Aikon said:
			
		

> Media Player won't play DVD's (my biggest issue with Vista),...



Windows Media Player has always needed an extra DVD decoder to be installed before it would play DVDs.  If I uninstall PowerDVD from my WinXP partition, WMP can't play DVDs any more.


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## DuncanFox (May 19, 2007)

Rhainor said:
			
		

> Aikon said:
> 
> 
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I'd be surprised if that's true.  I know they've done some anti-competitive things in the past, but MS really does want even compteitor's products to work well on their OS.  If they don't, folks get angry, and start looking for alternatives.

I know this is true, because there's a surprising number of application-specific hacks written into Windows XP to support poorly-written older software that isn't supported by the folks who wrote it anymore. Of course, all these hacks are a big part of why Windows is so bloated, but that's another topic entirely.


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## net-cat (May 20, 2007)

I installed Vista today.

It's not too bad. Much better than the betas.

One thing I did find funny was that my scanner drivers didn't work. I've got a Canon CanoScan LiDE 25. It's supposed to be Vista-compatible. Part of being able to claim Vista compatibility is having x64 drivers. Canon released Vista x64 drivers, and said that they wouldn't work on XP x64. However, you can force the driver to install in XP x64, and it works fine. However, the driver doesn't work at all in Vista x64. (And that's actually going to keep me using XP for a while. Not to mention that it's going to be just as much of a pain in the ass to format and reinstall all my programs in Vista as it would be in XP.)


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## Rhainor (May 20, 2007)

DuncanFox said:
			
		

> I'd be surprised if that's true.  I know they've done some anti-competitive things in the past, but MS really does want even compteitor's products to work well on their OS.  If they don't, folks get angry, and start looking for alternatives.



Okay, so they *kinda* do, but iTunes being a competitor's product/service, it's not at the top of their bug-fixing priority list.



			
				net-cat said:
			
		

> Part of being able to claim Vista compatibility is having x64 drivers.



Since when?  I've seen way more copies of 32-bit Vista out there than I have 64-bit Vista.  My own Vista partition is 32-bit.  It only has to work with one version of the OS to claim compatibility with that OS.

And, it should be noted that since the Vista kernel is different from the XP kernel, most XP drivers won't work with Vista.  If you find one that does, count yourself lucky.


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## Aikon (May 20, 2007)

Rhainor said:
			
		

> Aikon said:
> 
> 
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Actually Vista (Home Premium, and Ultimate SKUs) have the decoder necessary to play DVD's.  My problem is my videocard drivers aren't signed for such content, apparently.  No soup for me.  This is why DRM needs to die a long horrible death.


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## Aikon (May 20, 2007)

net-cat said:
			
		

> One thing I did find funny was that my scanner drivers didn't work. I've got a Canon CanoScan LiDE 25. It's supposed to be Vista-compatible. Part of being able to claim Vista compatibility is having x64 drivers. Canon released Vista x64 drivers, and said that they wouldn't work on XP x64. However, you can force the driver to install in XP x64, and it works fine. However, the driver doesn't work at all in Vista x64. (And that's actually going to keep me using XP for a while. Not to mention that it's going to be just as much of a pain in the ass to format and reinstall all my programs in Vista as it would be in XP.)



Drviers are a touchy subject with Vista.  Vendors aren't likely to upgrade their drivers for Vista if the product is old, to boost sales of new equipment.  I have a Canon Powershot G3 that isn't compatible with vista, I had to buy a card reader to import the pictures.  I got lucky in this case.

My Scanner, an HP Scanjet 4600 (POS that it is) works well, even though I get an error during installation.  I'll never by consumer HP products ever again.  They install so much crud, and worst of all they made it so you can't remove it, AT ALL.  I got an HP-Share to Web folder on my desktop that I can't delete, no matter how far I elevate permissions.  FU HP. (/rant)

My HP Printer (920C) has all but the most most basic Vista drivers.  It's older though.  That's one of those things I wasn't expecting to do, because traditionally, MS has done a good job with backwards compatability (considering).  But, if you're going to move forward, you've got to upgrade your equipment eventually.  Apple drops compatability with every point release of OS X :twisted:.  I just hate having to buy a new printer or scanner or whatever just because a vendor decides to not update their drivers.


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## DragonKid (May 20, 2007)

Aikon said:
			
		

> Actually Vista (Home Premium, and Ultimate SKUs) have the decoder necessary to play DVD's.  My problem is my videocard drivers aren't signed for such content, apparently.  No soup for me.  This is why DRM needs to die a long horrible death.


I don't know why your videocard drivers are an issue. I'm playing a DVD right now on WMP. A copy-protected one at that.  And I know that my video card is unable to play DRM content. I do agree, though, that DRM does need to die.


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## net-cat (May 20, 2007)

Rhainor said:
			
		

> Since when?  I've seen way more copies of 32-bit Vista out there than I have 64-bit Vista.  My own Vista partition is 32-bit.  It only has to work with one version of the OS to claim compatibility with that OS.


Since at least December 22, 2006. According to the latest revision (3.09) of the Windows Logo Program Requirements. In order to get an official "Designed for Vista" logo, your hardware must have driver support for both the x86 and x64 versions of Vista.



			
				Rhainor said:
			
		

> And, it should be noted that since the Vista kernel is different from the XP kernel, most XP drivers won't work with Vista.  If you find one that does, count yourself lucky.


Actually, that's not entirely true. While the Vista kernel is significantly different from XP x86's kernel, Microsoft has put a lot of development into making a compatibility layer. XP drivers that pass WHQL will, in general, work in Vista x86 if you extract them from their installation packages and install them manually. (I had to do this for the RAID controller in my old computer back in the days of Beta.)



			
				Aikon said:
			
		

> Drviers are a touchy subject with Vista.  Vendors aren't likely to upgrade their drivers for Vista if the product is old, to boost sales of new equipment.  I have a Canon Powershot G3 that isn't compatible with vista, I had to buy a card reader to import the pictures.  I got lucky in this case.


Fortunately for me, my scanner isn't terribly old. Canon made drivers were meant for Vista x64, but didn't work in Vista x64. They worked fine in XP x64, though.



			
				Aikon said:
			
		

> My Scanner, an HP Scanjet 4600 (POS that it is) works well, even though I get an error during installation.  I'll never by consumer HP products ever again.  They install so much crud, and worst of all they made it so you can't remove it, AT ALL.  I got an HP-Share to Web folder on my desktop that I can't delete, no matter how far I elevate permissions.  FU HP.


I can't speak to the quality of HP's scanners, but I will agree with the "too much crud" notion. Whenever I get a business HP product, first thing I do is pitch the disc that comes with it. Then I go online and download the host-only drivers.

That's why I like Canon scanners, though. If you know where to look, you can get the WIA drivers. It integrates into the Windows Image Acquisition system, which can be used by any TWAIN compliant application. (GIMP or Photoshop, for example.) It's only a few megabytes and doesn't install any unnecessary background processes.

I'd also like to point out that I'm talking about XP x64. XP x64 and normal XP are completely different code bases. XP was forked from 2000. Server 2003 was forked from 2000, (mostly) separately from XP, and is very different from regular XP. XP x64 and all versions of Vista were forked from Server 2003. If you have a device and are having trouble getting the XP drivers to work in Vista, try the Server 2003 drivers, if they're available.



			
				DragonKid said:
			
		

> I do agree, though, that DRM does need to die.


QFT.


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## Kougar (May 20, 2007)

net-cat said:
			
		

> One thing I did find funny was that my scanner drivers didn't work. I've got a Canon CanoScan LiDE 25. It's supposed to be Vista-compatible. Part of being able to claim Vista compatibility is having x64 drivers. Canon released Vista x64 drivers, and said that they wouldn't work on XP x64. However, you can force the driver to install in XP x64, and it works fine. However, the driver doesn't work at all in Vista x64. (And that's actually going to keep me using XP for a while. Not to mention that it's going to be just as much of a pain in the ass to format and reinstall all my programs in Vista as it would be in XP.)



If it worked under XP x64, did you try installing it under XP x64 compatibility mode in Vista? Quite a few apps will work with the correct compatibility mode selected during install, usually because half the time it is a permissions level error during the install on Vista... seems like just about all the Windows centric software companies got pretty lazy about running administrator level priveliges for any and everything.


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## fastturtle (May 21, 2007)

First off: most problems with Vista (Dell/HP/Acer) can be easily resolved by doing a Nuke and Puke as I call it. Simply backup anything you need to keep and then wipe the drive clean. Dell at least provides you with a clean installation disk (didn't they?). Now the explantions come down to three questions:
1) What Anti-Virus is on the system
2) What Office Suite is Installed
3) What Graphics Suite is installed

If 1 Is Symantec or McAffee - Run away from the system in screaming horror. Both of them aint worth the time/effort of installing or trying to fix and have been known to accidently delete user data. Get either AVG free from Grisoft or better yet get a copy of Avast for free. Both of which are much faster then either Symantec/Norton McAffee products. I've never trusted McAffee after it couldn't spot a virus in an email that had been in the wild for over 2 years and I yet I recognized it.

2) Unless it's Office 2003 or 2007, it's not compatible. Another that works nicely is Open Office and it's a free download

3) Adobe CS2/3 are currently having problems with Vista. Seems they like to loose images

You did state it's a laptop and the first thing I'd recomend if you can afford it is to install 2 gigs of memory. Vista Absolutely needs memory and 2 gigs is only the beginning.

The complaint about it taking 3 minutes to shut down, remember you're dealing with a 4200 rpm laptop drive. Cheap and slower the molasses in Anchorage during the winter. So yes Vista will take a while to shut down but 3 minutes? A bit to long.

Once again, plan on doing a full wipe and reinstall but have all of the hardware drivers downloaded from Dell onto a flash drive before you begin. Then it's time to backup the system and completely wipe the drive then do a clean installation. Then you should see a stable system after getting rid of all the damn third party garbage pre-loaded by Dell onto any non-corporate system.


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## net-cat (May 21, 2007)

Kougar said:
			
		

> If it worked under XP x64, did you try installing it under XP x64 compatibility mode in Vista? Quite a few apps will work with the correct compatibility mode selected during install, usually because half the time it is a permissions level error during the install on Vista... seems like just about all the Windows centric software companies got pretty lazy about running administrator level priveliges for any and everything.


I tried running the installer in Server 2003 compatibility mode. (There was no XP x64 option.) More of the same. (1)  (2) It's definitely a driver problem, not a problem with the installer.

To be fair to the consumer software developers, that has been a safe assumption since Windows was released in 1985. (Not so much for business software, though.)


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## SFox (May 21, 2007)

Aikon said:
			
		

> Another cool thing, no more defrag.  Rather, it works in the background when you're not awake.



Err, Windows XP does this too.


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## Aikon (May 21, 2007)

somberfox said:
			
		

> Aikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ideally it did, I always had trouble getting it, and other things to schedule


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## Aikon (May 21, 2007)

fastturtle said:
			
		

> 3) Adobe CS2/3 are currently having problems with Vista. Seems they like to loose images



What do you mean by this?  I never heard of any issues with CS2 other than CS2 won't retain the Aero UI, it reverts to Basic when you click on anything on the menu bar.  Also, dragging menu's around lags.


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