# Stop the furry wars!



## Martin Canine (Sep 27, 2013)

This is not supposed to be a discussion on why or why not to come out, but a plea to please stop being that intollerant on both sides, fans and lifestylers.
You both just have to accept that people have different reasons why they consider themselves to be furry.
You don't need to tell people that a coming out is unnecessary or stupid and that ot's a fact that it's just a hobby. That may be the case for you but it's not said it fits for all.
On the other paw, lifestylers should stop calling hobby furs no real furries, this is bullshit.
Kurrel the Raven sang "Every furry's got their own motivation for participation in the furry congregation".
Why can't you just get along with each other and accept that sone people see it as an interest and a thing they do in a free tine and others identify with it in a more spiritual or deeper way?


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 27, 2013)

Well, this thread is going to be a bronze winner.


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## Hewge (Sep 27, 2013)

Furry is a fandom. A hobby.

You are getting the furry fandom confused with therianthropy.


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## BRN (Sep 27, 2013)

Hewge said:


> Furry is a fandom. A hobby.
> 
> You are getting the furry fandom confused with therianthropy.



Not really... there isn't a sliding scale of "normal------- furry ----- therianthropy", you know? 

OP's just suggesting that furry culture takes up a larger proportion of some people's life, and that it really isn't a problem.

Unfortunately for the thread, the _way_ in which they suggested that was somewhat contentious, and now this thread is going to be drowned out under the generic "hurr hurr cynical" responses of the same ol' ten forum users, decrying the nature of humanity in worn-out ways, while we all pretend to laugh dryly because that's what we're supposed to do when they make 'funny' posts. Oh, and all This each other.


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## Joey (Sep 27, 2013)

The regulars here are quite alright, but I can't stand about 80% of the fandom and that's being generous. 

Also, Kurrel the Raven is a stupid idiot and so is uncle Kage. Fuck 'em both.


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## Charrio (Sep 27, 2013)

People sit there and fight over what's a furry?


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## Hewge (Sep 27, 2013)

SIX said:


> Not really... there isn't a sliding scale of "normal------- furry ----- therianthropy", you know?
> 
> OP's just suggesting that furry culture takes up a larger proportion of some people's life, and that it really isn't a problem.
> 
> Unfortunately for the thread, the _way_ in which they suggested that was somewhat contentious, and now this thread is going to be drowned out under the generic "hurr hurr cynical" responses of the same ol' ten forum users, decrying the nature of humanity in worn-out ways, while we all pretend to laugh dryly because that's what we're supposed to do when they make 'funny' posts. Oh, and all This each other.



Well that sucks.


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## Schwimmwagen (Sep 27, 2013)

GG n1 you made a thread just to repeat "furry is whatever you like to do with it"


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## Saga (Sep 27, 2013)

Next on TLC: furry wars followef by storage wars. Stay tuned.


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## Judge Spear (Sep 27, 2013)

SIX said:


> Not really... there isn't a sliding scale of "normal------- furry ----- therianthropy", you know?
> 
> OP's just suggesting that furry culture takes up a larger proportion of some people's life, and that it really isn't a problem.
> 
> Unfortunately for the thread, the _way_ in which they suggested that was somewhat contentious, and now this thread is going to be drowned out under the generic "hurr hurr cynical" responses of the same ol' ten forum users, decrying the nature of humanity in worn-out ways, while we all pretend to laugh dryly because that's what we're supposed to do when they make 'funny' posts. Oh, and all This each other.



That was beautiful.


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

It's like I'm really in 2007.



Martin Canine said:


> On the other paw



Fuck you, fuck this thread, fuck everything.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 27, 2013)

The more I read this, the more I want to bash my brains in with my palm.


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> The more I read this, the more I want to bash my brains in with my palm.



You mean your paw.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> You mean your paw.


_I will cut you in your sleep._


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

Vaelarsa said:


> _I will cut you in your sleep._



_rawr
hiss_


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 27, 2013)

What's the pawblem Salvi?


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

d.batty said:


> What's the pawblem Salvi?



Guess I've just got brain purroblems.

Actually yeah if someone could just kill me in my sleep that'd be great.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Sep 27, 2013)

Yes, because Kurrel the Raven sang a song we must all tolerate each other.
How about no.


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## benignBiotic (Sep 27, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Well, this thread is going to be a bronze winner.


Bronze? OP is going for the gold!

Why can't we all just hold paws and sing furry music? :V


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## Willow (Sep 27, 2013)

Martin Canine said:


> Why can't you just get along with each other and accept that sone people see it as an interest and a thing they do in a free tine and others identify with it in a more spiritual or deeper way?


Because then people use it as a reason for why people don't want to be around them instead of stepping back and considering maybe they're the problem. Which makes everyone look bad when people do stupid stuff in the name of furry.


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## Jabberwocky (Sep 27, 2013)

nobody cares.


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## Wither (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Guess I've just got brain purroblems.
> 
> Actually yeah if someone could just kill me in my sleep that'd be great.



I'd be more afraid of furries raping you in your sleep now.


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## Kitsune Cross (Sep 27, 2013)

Yea! Lets all be as fucking weird as posible and expect acceptance! :v


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## M. LeRenard (Sep 27, 2013)

I will state that the question 'why can't we all just get along' became a hopelessly naive thing to ask roughly 1000 centuries ago.  I will state no opinion on the rest of the topic.


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## Inpw (Sep 27, 2013)

I didn't know a war was happening! Better get my 30 06 Rifle, Gin and Nazi gear to protect myself from these furries. 

Wait... who exactly should I shoot?


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## Distorted (Sep 27, 2013)

So...

Do we leave our minds open and accepting to all things becoming more unified and pleasant but also delusional and isolated on our own island of furry quirkiness where no outsider could ever understand? 
Or do we hold on to our values and order with iron pawed resolve and defend against every rogue belief that threatens to corrupt us all thus forming a schism between the people?

What ever shall we do?


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## Fallowfox (Sep 27, 2013)

Distorted said:


> So...
> 
> Do we leave our minds open and accepting to all things becoming more unified and pleasant but also delusional and isolated on our own island of furry quirkiness where no outsider could ever understand?
> Or do we hold on to our values and order with iron pawed resolve and defend against every rogue belief that threatens to corrupt us all thus forming a schism between the people?
> ...




Maybe we should just stop caring what other furries like. We don't exactly all live under the same paw-print banner.


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## Hewge (Sep 27, 2013)

So much paw in here.


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## Jags (Sep 27, 2013)

It's a paws for thought . Lets take this to a larger scalies. Not just in the furry fandom, but in general why can't people everywhere just get along? Yiff we all just banded together and held claws, we might get rid of all bad in the world.

As if. Humans are far, faaar too judgemental of others merely by nature-If there's something strikingly different about somebody we pick up on it immediately. And while some can avoid discrimination others really like to drive it home. So it's surely the case that on a small a scale as a fandom, if we can't control it based on skin colour why would we be more tolerant of how seriously we take a hobby?

(in b4 'comparing furry differences to racism' points. No. just, no alright?)

How many points did i get for the first paragraph btw?


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## Judge Spear (Sep 27, 2013)

^I'm gonna KILL this man!!! I'mma GONNA!!!


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## Jags (Sep 27, 2013)

I tried to think of more, but just couldn't. I'm sure someone will beat my effort


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 27, 2013)

Are there furries killing each other over this? Arguing is the least offensive offense really... if anything that's an accomplishment. 

I dunno I hate hysteria titles like this, it doesn't really "resolve" things and blows stupid shit like a disagreement in fandom way out of proportion.


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## PastryOfApathy (Sep 27, 2013)

All this thread does is make me laugh at the thought of a bunch of fat nerds in fursuits charging up the beaches of Normandy or something. We should all pitch that to Hollywood or something.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 27, 2013)

Fuck you I'm a vacuum cleaner.


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## kaibamon (Sep 27, 2013)

stop caring,giving attention,talking and shouting fur wars and it will stop


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 27, 2013)

Accretion said:


> I didn't know a war was happening! Better get my 30 06 Rifle, Gin and Nazi gear to protect myself from these furries.
> 
> Wait... who exactly should I shoot?


Yourself, right in the penis.


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## Ansitru (Sep 27, 2013)

Martin Canine said:


> On the other paw



I cringed.


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## Dire Newt (Sep 27, 2013)

Rain-Wizard said:


> How many points did i get for the first paragraph btw?



-10000 points for not saying "knotted" instead of "banded"


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## Zabrina (Sep 27, 2013)

Ah, good ol' furries.


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## Iudicium_86 (Sep 27, 2013)

Fandom and hobby aren't exactly 1-to-1 synonyms. In normal usage, hobby is often a singular activity and far less a presence in one's life, like puzzles or knitting. While fandom is almost closer to a sub-culture with mass gatherings and 'icons' within the group. 

To link fandom and _hobby_ in such a mutual way is basically telling else how important a thing is in their lives. Would you really say Star Trek to a Trekkie is the same level of importance as a jigsaw puzzle to the random joe?


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## MochiElZorro (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm knot quite sure what I just read... it's all a bit furry. I mean, fuzzy. Something about... hold on, gotta paws for a moo-ment. Meow where was I? Oh deer, I seem to have forgotten. Oh well, I guess I'll go aneigh. I'll bee back if I remempurr.


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## Teal (Sep 27, 2013)

Martin Canine said:


> On the other paw


 NO



> Kurrel the Raven sang "Every furry's got their own motivation for participation in the furry congregation".


 Who?
I didn't know I should base my life on a song. 



> *Why can't you just get along with each other *and accept that sone people see it as an interest and a thing they do in a free tine and others identify with it in a more spiritual or deeper way?


 There are no words. -_-


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## Kitsune Cross (Sep 27, 2013)

I don't really know wtf is going on so I'm just going to type down _*GOD*_ and expect this become a religious shitstorm.


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## Willow (Sep 27, 2013)

MochiElZorro said:


> I'm knot quite sure what I just read... it's all a bit furry. I mean, fuzzy. Something about... hold on, gotta paws for a moo-ment. Meow where was I? Oh deer, I seem to have *forgotten*. Oh well, I guess I'll go aneigh. I'll bee back if I remempurr.


This should be a bannable offense.

You should also be ashamed because you didn't say furgotten. :v


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## Wither (Sep 27, 2013)

Guys look. 
Furry is a hobby. 
Spirit animals is a belief. 
Otherkin is... I don't know how to group them. 

I'm not going to say everyone here should accept these people, but I'd hope atleast to get the point across that furry is the fandom. Anything past a simple hobby is no longer covered by the fandom. Please, please, please, please do not lump the other stuff into the fandom.


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## Mr. Sparta (Sep 27, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> I don't really know wtf is going on so I'm just going to type down _*GOD*_ and expect this become a religious shitstorm.



DAE ATHIEST GIEZ!?


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## LegitWaterfall (Sep 27, 2013)

Furry war?
If there really was a "furry war", the elders would be preaching of the World War 3.


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## Abbi Normal (Sep 27, 2013)

LegitWaterfall said:


> Furry war?
> If there really was a "furry war", the elders would be preaching of the World War 3.


  You mean World War :3


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## LegitWaterfall (Sep 27, 2013)

Abbi Normal said:


> You mean World War :3


It's furries, they won't care.


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## Aetius (Sep 27, 2013)

The furry war will end when the furry fandom is wiped out.


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## MochiElZorro (Sep 27, 2013)

Willow said:


> This should be a bannable offense.
> 
> You should also be ashamed because you didn't say furgotten. :v



Ah, but alas my deer (or should I say dog?) friend, you are wrong! Yiff you paws and think about it, it should fur realz be furGOATten, and therian lies the claw in your sentence. :3


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## LegitWaterfall (Sep 27, 2013)

^That's still happening ITT?


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

I still don't get what is so gross of being human... I'm happy with it, why won't you? :V
*Still happy being human that likes anthros*** ***Protects himself before the tomato attack***


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

LegitWaterfall said:


> ^That's still happening ITT?



Some people just have to drag a joke on for as long as possible.

Most people get over that after their twelfth birthday, but some don't.



DarkShadow777 said:


> I still don't get what is so gross of being human... I'm happy with it, why won't you? :V
> *Still happy being human that likes anthros*** ***Protects himself before the tomato attack***



Who are you quoting?


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## Dire Newt (Sep 27, 2013)

DarkShadow777 said:


> I still don't get what is so gross of being human... I'm happy with it, why won't you? :V
> *Still happy being human that likes anthros*** ***Protects himself before the tomato attack***



So your assumption is that most furries like anthros because they hate being human? Ha.


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## LegitWaterfall (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> The result of people dragging a joke on for too long.


I now see the danger of pun chains. . .


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## Aleu (Sep 27, 2013)

Fur puns detected

Aleu Pun mode engaged.


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Fur puns detected
> 
> Aleu Pun mode engaged.



No thanks.


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## LegitWaterfall (Sep 27, 2013)

What have I done?


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## Aleu (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> No thanks.


What's wrong furriend? Howl can you sit there and deny the most talonted punster a shot at puns?
Are you not amewsed?


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

Aleu said:


> What's wrong furriend? Howl can you sit there and deny the most talonted punster a shot at puns?
> Are you not amewsed?



Please shut up.

You are Hitler reincarnate.


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## LegitWaterfall (Sep 27, 2013)

Aleu said:


> What's wrong furriend? Howl can you sit there and deny the most talonted punster a shot at puns?
> Are you not amewsed?


You're badgering him.
I don't think he apurreciates it.


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

Dire Newt said:


> So your assumption is that most furries like anthros because they hate being human? Ha.


Dunno, you tell me 

Just kidding anyway, like if being human or furry was a sin... just be!


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

DarkShadow777 said:


> Just kidding anyway, like if being human or furry was a sin... just be!



True words of wisdom right there.


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## Dreaming (Sep 27, 2013)

There's a furry war? That's news to me, I just assumed that the fandom was full of opinionated cunts


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## Distorted (Sep 27, 2013)

Dreaming said:


> There's a furry war? That's news to me, I just assumed that the fandom was full of opinionated cunts



I think it's just this forum. I'm not sure. It makes me want to see how it is on other sites. Surely they're just as cynical and anal as we are here....right?


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## MochiElZorro (Sep 27, 2013)

Aleu said:


> What's wrong furriend? Howl can you sit there and deny the most talonted punster a shot at puns?
> Are you not amewsed?



This may bee the start something legendairy, neigh, mewtiful!


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## Willow (Sep 27, 2013)

Distorted said:


> I think it's just this forum. I'm not sure. It makes me want to see how it is on other sites. Surely they're just as cynical and anal as we are here....right?


Anal, maybe. Cynical, probably not. 

But they're anal in a different way. :u


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## Abbi Normal (Sep 27, 2013)

LegitWaterfall said:


> It's furries, they won't care.



It was supposed to be the cat-face emoticon...I still think it was amusing, even if the delivery was bad.


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## Mentova (Sep 27, 2013)

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with fursuits and Bad Dragon products.


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

Mentova said:


> I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with fursuits and Bad Dragon products.



Seems that so much people will have tons of fun in that war...
That, and will get some stretched orifices...


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## PastryOfApathy (Sep 27, 2013)

Mentova said:


> I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with fursuits and Bad Dragon products.



Wait. 4 - 3 = 1, one world order. 3 pages to this thread, 3 syllables in the word antichrist. Mentova, three wise men, giving gifts to the newborn son of god. 

*The end times are coming! Repent heathens! *


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Wait. 4 - 3 = 1, one world order. 3 pages to this thread, 3 syllables in the word antichrist. Mentova, three wise men, giving gifts to the newborn son of god.
> 
> *The end times are coming! Repent heathens! *



Keep cool, we survived those wars, why not this one? I mean, the only thing that can kill you is a bad used tail... You know what I mean...


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Some people just have to drag a joke on for as long as possible.
> 
> Most people get over that after their twelfth birthday, but some don't.



I rest my case.


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## Aleu (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Please shut up.
> 
> You are Hitler reincarnate.



Jew don't even know me. :v

In all seriousness to the OP, most of the people here call it a hobby because well...it IS. For the most part, we're fine with people who do more with it. What most are not fine with is when they treat it like a sexuality or a race when it's not. People shouldn't come out about it because there's nothing to come out about. No one comes out about liking Star Wars or Doctor Who or anime or whatever so why the fuck is furry so special? Just do what you damn well please. Works fur me.


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## Willow (Sep 27, 2013)

Aleu said:


> No one comes out about liking Star Wars or Doctor Who or anime or whatever so why the fuck is furry so special? Just do what you damn well please.


Because furries have this idea that everyone in the entire world knows what a furry is and believes that it involves being attracted to dogs or thinking you're really some animal trapped in a human's body. Or something along those lines. 




> Works fur me.


I think you need to leave. :v


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## Aleu (Sep 27, 2013)

Willow said:


> I think you need to leave. :v



You're not my supervisor! >:V


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Jew don't even know me. :v
> 
> In all seriousness to the OP, most of the people here call it a hobby because well...it IS. For the most part, we're fine with people who do more with it. What most are not fine with is when they treat it like a sexuality or a race when it's not. People shouldn't come out about it because there's nothing to come out about. No one comes out about liking Star Wars or Doctor Who or anime or whatever so why the fuck is furry so special? Just do what you damn well please. Works fur me.



I feel like if this is sometimes treated as a sexual orientation?... Short sentence...


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## Machine (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm all for furries blowing each other up in war.


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## Distorted (Sep 27, 2013)

Willow said:


> Because furries have this idea that everyone in the entire world knows what a furry is and believes that it involves being attracted to dogs or thinking you're really some animal trapped in a human's body. Or something along those lines.



I made a mistake like that once. Like when you get excited by something and you become so immersed in it you can't see how strange it is. And then when you tell someone else about it you don't realize that maybe.....just maybe, that this is something you should keep to yourself. And then you get looked at funky for the rest of the school year  because you said you liked "insert questionable liking here" thinking everyone else was into it.


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

DarkShadow777 said:


> I still don't get what is so gross of being human... I'm happy with it, why won't you? :V
> *Still happy being human that likes anthros*** ***Protects himself before the tomato attack***





Dire Newt said:


> So your assumption is that most furries like anthros because they hate being human? Ha.





Willow said:


> Because furries have this idea that everyone in  the entire world knows what a furry is and believes that it involves  being attracted to dogs or thinking you're really some animal trapped in  a human's body. Or something along those lines.



Even if I was joking, this surely answers the question...


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## Heliophobic (Sep 27, 2013)

Distorted said:


> I made a mistake like that once. Like when you get excited by something and you become so immersed in it you can't see how strange it is. And then when you tell someone else about it you don't realize that maybe.....just maybe, that this is something you should keep to yourself. And then you get looked at funky for the rest of the school year  because you said you liked "insert questionable liking here" thinking everyone else was into it.



People only appreciate what you like if you happen to like the things that they like.

Fuck people and their shitty counter-opinions. I'll like what I want.


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## DarkShadow777 (Sep 27, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Fuck people and their shitty counter-opinions. I'll like what I want.



^This


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## Distorted (Sep 28, 2013)

Saliva said:


> People only appreciate what you like if you happen to like the things that they like.
> 
> Fuck people and their shitty counter-opinions. I'll like what I want.



I've only recently learn to believe that notion. I've always been a stickler for rules and order, and found people who thought that way to be harmful in a sense. But I learned that it's pretty much the only way to be truly happy in life. But ever since applying that belief to my life, I've had much opposition. It's the opposite of how I operated the last 22 years, and I'm not used to it still. I'm sure if I found others to share the struggle with it would be better.

/realtalk


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## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Jew don't even know me. :v
> 
> In all seriousness to the OP, most of the people here call it a hobby because well...it IS. For the most part, we're fine with people who do more with it. What most are not fine with is when they treat it like a sexuality or a race when it's not. People shouldn't come out about it because there's nothing to come out about. No one comes out about liking Star Wars or Doctor Who or anime or whatever so why the fuck is furry so special? Just do what you damn well please. Works fur me.


 And then they whine about fursecution after people take it the wrong way.


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## Kantress (Sep 28, 2013)

Can't we all just agree foxboys and wolfgirls are fapworthy and leave it at that? In fact, I'm going to look at more furry porn right now.


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## PastryOfApathy (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Can't we all just agree foxboys and wolfgirls are fapworthy and leave it at that? In fact, I'm going to look at more furry porn right now.



Points for honesty. Fap on you creepy weirdo!


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## Dire Newt (Sep 28, 2013)

Aleu said:


> You're not my supervisor! >:V



[video=youtube;YEwlW5sHQ4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEwlW5sHQ4Q[/video]


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## Judge Spear (Sep 28, 2013)

Mentova said:


> I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with fursuits and Bad Dragon products.



Im gonna chuck a dildo at your face...except it will actually be a lightsaber. Not an ugly dragon dick. OnO


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## Rigby (Sep 28, 2013)

Machine said:


> I'm all for furries blowing each other up in war.



The last thing furries need to do is continue blowing each other


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## Machine (Sep 28, 2013)

Rigby said:


> The last thing furries need to do is continue blowing each other


Shrapnel is so murry purry, though!


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## Rilvor (Sep 28, 2013)

Machine said:


> Shrapnel is so murry purry, though!


Enough strategically placed holes for all of them!


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## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

What furry war? There's a war? Why didn't anyone call me about this?! I want to skin some furries for my leatherworking!


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## Heliophobic (Sep 28, 2013)

lol


furries r stupit


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## Hewge (Sep 28, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> What furry war? There's a war? Why didn't anyone call me about this?! I want to skin some furries for my leatherworking!



DK with LW and skinning? What a noob. Everyone knows BS/JC are best. :v


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## Jags (Sep 28, 2013)

Fallout 4: After the furry wars. People trade in old con badges, and horrible fursuit mutations attack from the sewers.


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## Namba (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Can't we all just agree foxboys and wolfgirls are fapworthy and leave it at that? In fact, I'm going to look at more furry porn right now.


YOU SICK LITTLE MONKEY


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## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

To the op, hopefully you'll see this despite all the derailment.  Unfortunately this happens all throughout life, and it seems to be really bad on the internet, especially with hobbies/fandoms/interests.  People tend to spend a lot of time getting upset over what other people do when it doesn't affect them.


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## Mr. Sparta (Sep 28, 2013)

arctobear said:


> To the op, hopefully you'll see this despite all the derailment.  Unfortunately this happens all throughout life, and it seems to be really bad on the internet, especially with hobbies/fandoms/interests.  People tend to spend a lot of time getting upset over what other people do when it doesn't affect them.



If you're trying to turn this thread around, its too late. The circlejerk cannot be stopped.


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## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

arctobear said:


> To the op, hopefully you'll see this despite all the derailment.  Unfortunately this happens all throughout life, and it seems to be really bad on the internet, especially with hobbies/fandoms/interests.  People tend to spend a lot of time getting upset over what other people do when it doesn't affect them.


Thing is though, most people don't actually care about furries. Or any other fandom for that matter. 
It's when people started going around trying to force acceptance and playing the victim when people showed no interest in their weird hobby did people start to assume all furries must be like this.


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## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

Willow, I can see that.  I'm pretty new to the fandom, so I've missed a lot of the backstory, but I can see where that would get old pretty quick.  I've also heard of this happening in other fandoms where people get their drawers in a wad because people don't like whatever it is a person is into.  It can be quite hilarious or stupid depending on how you look at it.

However, and this is sorta weird, I do get a kick out of watching the furry war vids on YOutube from several years back because it's comedy gold watching people get so worked up.  I have a weird sense of humor.


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## Armaetus (Sep 28, 2013)

There's a way...stop paying attention to the drama and controversial things.

Also, Kurrel is a generic "music" maker and Kage is just a drunk who thinks he can make all of furry look better in the media spotlight. Oh yea, I forgot about 2 Gryphon too. Not funny at all.


----------



## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

*small voice* I sorta like Kage's stories.


----------



## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Who the hell is Kage?


----------



## Machine (Sep 28, 2013)

Teal said:


> Who the hell is Kage?


Some guy who's a furry "celebrity" and goes to AnthroCon a lot, I think.


----------



## RatCoffee (Sep 28, 2013)

I liked Kage and 2 when I went to my first con this year. If I may ask, why aren't these guys liked here? I know a lot of of the fandom seems to like them.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Sep 28, 2013)

Never bothered to look up Gruphon's rants. I listened to Kurrel's song few years back.
Kage is a person I've never heard of.


----------



## arctobear (Sep 28, 2013)

IIRC Kage is the guy that is in charge of Anthrocon, as in he's the one that started it and puts it together.


----------



## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

Teal said:


> Who the hell is Kage?



Some douchebag who runs one of the furry cons.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Hewge said:


> DK with LW and skinning? What a noob. Everyone knows BS/JC are best. :v



That's what alts are for.

Don't you see the goggles? I'm an engineer. I make stuff that explodes and bikes. Wanna free bike that may or may not explode?


----------



## Hewge (Sep 28, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Wanna free bike that may or may not explode?


_*
YES. *_You know it's completely safe when they tell you so honestly that it may explode!


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Hewge said:


> _*
> YES. *_You know it's completely safe when they tell you so honestly that it may explode!



Goblin engineering. Bitches love goblin engineering.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 28, 2013)

I have some *serious* observations to add to this discussion (last night I was too tired and just wanted to make a furverted comment), seeing as I've been a furry for about half my life and am extremely open about it.

1.) *Civil War* That happened long ago. The Burned Furs (the main instigators) died out long ago, and these days there are no real factions who are fighting with each other. Lifestyler or moderate fan (I am somewhere in the middle, maybe on the 'lifestyler' side a bit), we're both in the same category and I rarely hear of any of this large-scale infighting that the OP has alluded to. Now, of course, the creepy, hypersexual, socially incompetent furries, furries often DO crap on. I try to be a bit restrained about that, since I used to be one of those creepy bastards before I matured.

Also, someone might ask about the marginalization of the cub enthusiasts or some other group and point to that as an example of furries oppressing furries. Truth of the matter is, most furries don't care if someone beats off to underage characters, and many don't care even if they have RL attractions. The prohibition on cub porn by many sites is not due to malice, but fear of an inferior, far more powerful culture, one with a government and prosecutors (that fear is irrational, of course, but not all furries are rational). Again, don't talk about lust for cubs and wanting to find a RP partner all the time and few will care. And, most of the few that do find it offensive will not comment due to a natural, widespread aversion to being a dick to people who haven't wronged them.

2.)* Fursecution* I'm calling bullshit on that defense/exclamation in general. I am openly a furry. VERY openly a furry. I wear virtually everywhere a 28-inch 'coontail (Trpdwarf made it and has been quite friendly in our professional communications, since we're on the subject of attire and I doubt she'd mind), shirts with anthros or kemonomimi on them, and have a very feminine appearance in terms of hair and face. I can count on one paw the number of times someone has had a perceivably negative reaction, and two of those were from ghetto trash who are pretty much hostile towards everyone who's not as primitive as they are. People generally don't recoil even when they approach me with the typical questions rooted in myth. People actually want me to lead meetings, and I don't take a thing off when I do. Oh, and this is in suburban Georgia, not some ultra-progressive town in the Pacific Northwest or New England.

Online, people are similarly unoffensive, though I get the occasional "furfag!" responses. When someone loathes me, it's generally not because I'm a furry. Many non-furries actually like some of the artwork I show them. I'm a bit more free to be furverted online even in non-furry chatrooms, but I try to use some level of restraint so people don't just assume I'm obsessed with knots and fucking submissive foxes and do little else.

So, honestly, unless one lives in some culturally depressed and pathetic rural town somewhere or comes across as a socially incompetent weirdo who's obsessed with getting laid, there should be little fear of negative repercussions. 

3.) *Uncle Kage and 2 Gryphon* Since I have some thoughts on the matter and I have some cool music stimulating me, I'll comment. These two are very good friends, and they are often spoken of in the same sentences for that, and also because Kage asked people to donate to cover 2's expenses so he could attend Anthrocon once and there was a massive backlash for that and Kage's reactions.

2 Gryphon is a furry comedian who may well be destined to try AA some day, and is known for loud, extremely angry ranting and commentary. I found him rather amusing, but once he stated that he didn't feel sorry for LGBT kids who are offing themselves and that we're better off without them (and, I believe he was serious and was not being a smartass, either, given the tone and commentary- it was I think around or at #157-160), I stopped watching his show and developed an immense hatred for him extremely abruptly. 

Uncle Kage is the leader of Anthrocon. He is well known for being a brilliant orator and storyteller, and for being obsessed about press coverage and the image of the fandom. He's even boasted on camera about 'dodging and weaving' when asked sexual questions about the fandom by reporters. I revile disingenuous and control-obsessed people like that. I have been asked 'What is the furry fandom?' many times. I give them a truthful, unflinching answer, and goes something like this. "We're a collection of people who are interested in anthropomorphic characters, but it is also a subculture. We are predominantly LGBT/bisexual (Furry Survey confirms that), very tolerant, and very creative, having possibly the highest per capita number of artists of any subculture." When asked about our sexual nature, I would say, "We are comfortable with sexuality and porn, but we are not generally obsessed with it. Porn is simply something to enjoy visually and otherwise to most of us. Furries seldom yiff in fursuits due to cost and exertion and lack of interest, and most don't even own one. What you saw in CSI is almost 100% utter garbage."


----------



## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Also, someone might ask about the marginalization of the cub enthusiasts or some other group and point to that as an example of furries oppressing furries. Truth of the matter is, most furries don't care if someone beats off to underage characters, and *many don't care even if they have RL attractions.*


This is certainly news to me. Though I have to laugh that some view this as an act of oppression. As if.



> The prohibition on cub porn by many sites is not due to malice, but fear of an inferior, far more powerful culture, one with a government and prosecutors


I don't blame them.


----------



## DarkShadow777 (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> I have some *serious* observations to add to this discussion (last night I was too tired and just wanted to make a furverted comment), seeing as I've been a furry for about half my life and am extremely open about it.
> 
> 1.) *Civil War* That happened long ago. The Burned Furs (the main instigators) died out long ago, and these days there are no real factions who are fighting with each other. Lifestyler or moderate fan (I am somewhere in the middle, maybe on the 'lifestyler' side a bit), we're both in the same category and I rarely hear of any of this large-scale infighting that the OP has alluded to. Now, of course, the creepy, hypersexual, socially incompetent furries, furries often DO crap on. I try to be a bit restrained about that, since I used to be one of those creepy bastards before I matured.
> 
> ...



Reading all this is like trying to understand another world...

Why are they SO complicated? Life is complicated enough to add this to the list...


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> *I am openly a furry. VERY openly a furry. I wear virtually everywhere a 28-inch 'coontail
> 
> I can count on one paw the number of times someone has had a perceivably negative reaction
> *
> ...



Oh man...


----------



## Kantress (Sep 28, 2013)

Willow said:


> This is certainly news to me. Though I have to  laugh that some view this as an act of oppression. As if.




It's not to me. Furrydom is a rather relaxed subculture. Of course,  if someone were to make such a declaration in most public furry venues,  there would likely be a maelstrom of flak, especially here. However,  that would be the vocal minority. If we're talking about due to pure  moral/visceral disgust... If one is just a cub enthusiast and disavows  any RL attraction, up to 10% would become hostile. Admit to attraction,  maybe 20-40%. It would go much higher once behavior was discussed, of  course. I'm just glad people in my part of the fandom have Starling/Jery  and Inkbunny. They don't have a forum where people can go argue with  each other in, alas.

As for the 'act of oppression'... I have  rather heavy armor. As long as someone is not trying to harm me and just  states they find me revolting, I shrug them off and don't cry  oppression. A cub enthusiast who would cite mere discomfort/repulsion as  an act of oppression is being, well, cubbish. Haha, I made a funny.




> I don't blame them.



I go both ways. It depends on what the site is and the  motivation. If a site is in a nation that prohibits even cub artwork,  yeah, I could see them HAVING to do that. If it's a business site like  Hardblush, who is worried about profit, I can understand to an extent.  It's not good for a business to have to fend off attacks by a group of  people, no matter how immature and retarded their cause is. However, the  target demographic is furries. Very few non-furs are going to pay for  that. The outside world's perception of us is irrelevant, and most  furries don't really care about it. It's just another fetish/section to  them. 

FA's a special case, and the reason is Dragoneer is an  incompetent moron who left the site vulnerable to nuclear tactics, and  when one person (who may well not even be a furry, just a troll with  nothing else to do) decided to actually carry out that nuclear strike,  he was suddenly left with no choice but to hurriedly ban it and find a  new payment processor.

The ones who are concerned exclusively  with how furrydom is perceived, of course, I give no slack towards.  Their vision of furry is not mine. 




DarkShadow777 said:


> Reading all this is like trying to understand another world...
> 
> Why are they SO complicated? Life is complicated enough to add this to the list...



I'm sorry my detailed and lengthy commentary has confused you. Sometimes, more is better. 



PastryOfApathy said:


> Oh man...



Your name is weird and confusing.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Your name is weird and confusing.



I find the fact that you take furfaggotry so seriously weird and confusing so I guess that makes us even.


----------



## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

Yeah Pastry! 
Dafuq up witchyour name? 

But seriously. 
What? 
You're making long, drawn out, posts to to say... Something... About cub porn. 

I read your post 2 timses and couldn't exactly tell what your point was in all that. 
Was there even a point, or were you just spouting facts because you can?


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> It's not to me. Furrydom is a rather relaxed subculture. Of course,  if someone were to make such a declaration in most public furry venues,  there would likely be a maelstrom of flak, especially here. However,  that would be the vocal minority. If we're talking about due to pure  moral/visceral disgust... If one is just a cub enthusiast and disavows  any RL attraction, up to 10% would become hostile. Admit to attraction,  maybe 20-40%. It would go much higher once behavior was discussed, of  course. I'm just glad people in my part of the fandom have Starling/Jery  and Inkbunny. They don't have a forum where people can go argue with  each other in, alas.
> 
> As for the 'act of oppression'... I have  rather heavy armor. As long as someone is not trying to harm me and just  states they find me revolting, I shrug them off and don't cry  oppression. A cub enthusiast who would cite mere discomfort/repulsion as  an act of oppression is being, well, cubbish. Haha, I made a funny.
> 
> ...




Cub *PORN*, not cub *ARTWORK*. The G-PG stuff is fine, the M-XXX had to go.

The fact that my state and a few others have taken account to "Protect the chirins", Cup porn had to go due to VA state legislature in addition to Paypal going apeshit on it since it is cracking down on Child pornography. Also taking a stance on providers inside the state to make sure no one distributes it or advertises it in media within the state.

Many furries do have a problem with cub porn because of context that it has, but spit between "it's better that they jack of to drawn children"and "Shit has to go" as well as furries who admit to a RL attraction to it.


----------



## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

Kantress said:


> It's not to me. Furrydom is a rather relaxed subculture. Of course,  if someone were to make such a declaration in most public furry venues,  there would likely be a maelstrom of flak, especially here. However,  that would be the vocal minority. If we're talking about due to pure  moral/visceral disgust... If one is just a cub enthusiast and disavows  any RL attraction, up to 10% would become hostile. Admit to attraction,  maybe 20-40%. It would go much higher once behavior was discussed, of  course. I'm just glad people in my part of the fandom have Starling/Jery  and Inkbunny. They don't have a forum where people can go argue with  each other in, alas.


Well obviously if you're in a circle that is generally accepting, you're not going to find many who'll be against that. 



> FA's a special case, and the reason is Dragoneer is an  incompetent moron who left the site vulnerable to nuclear tactics, and  when one person (who may well not even be a furry, just a troll with  nothing else to do) decided to actually carry out that nuclear strike,  he was suddenly left with no choice but to hurriedly ban it and find a  new payment processor.


Initially he did everything he could to keep it on FA but obviously business like Paypal don't want to be associated with that sort of thing for the obvious reasons. Drawn or not, doesn't matter. 

So it's not really incompetence so much as it is wanting to appease the bastards. But in the grand scheme of things it was either no site for anyone or a site without puppy porn.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Willow said:


> Well obviously if you're in a circle that is generally accepting, you're not going to find many who'll be against that.
> 
> 
> Initially he did everything he could to keep it on FA but obviously business like Paypal don't want to be associated with that sort of thing for the obvious reasons. Drawn or not, doesn't matter.
> ...




That and law stuff, but whatevs.


----------



## PastryOfApathy (Sep 28, 2013)

Wither said:


> Yeah Pastry!
> Dafuq up witchyour name?



Honestly it's a play on my main handle since I really want to keep my occasional furfaggotry separate from everything else.


----------



## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Honestly it's a play on my main handle since I really want to keep my occasional furfaggotry separate from everything else.


I was more commenting on the way he blew of your post in that matter instead of just ignoring it. 
I think you talked about it a while back during the early 'Things we hate' thread. 

OT: I have honestly no fucking clue what's happening. 
Child porn is illegal yo.


----------



## Jabberwocky (Sep 28, 2013)

what the fuck Kantress? cub porn? REALLY?
you are clearly a stupid little shit. you take pride in not being in a forum where we, I quote, FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER, and you gladly contribute to the drama on a forum where we argue about a shitton of things.
good fucking job, m8.


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Sep 28, 2013)

Wait, so is cub porn furry CP?


----------



## Kantress (Sep 28, 2013)

Wither said:


> You're making long, drawn out, posts to to say... Something... About cub porn.
> 
> I read your post 2 timses and couldn't exactly tell what your point was in all that.
> Was there even a point, or were you just spouting facts because you can?



My  nature is to elaborate heavily on a subject. I had many thoughts on  that and the OP's general question, and I was also distracted by  something else. So, it was not as great a post as I would have liked.  *shrugs*



Ozriel said:


> Cub *PORN*, not cub *ARTWORK*. The G-PG stuff is fine, the M-XXX had to go.



Okay,  okay. I concede that. I misspoke. It's the porn that FA proscribed.  Also, I forgot to quote it and can't be bothered now, but, VA is a state.  Server relocation was not an option?



> Many furries do have a  problem with cub porn because of context that it has, but spit between  "it's better that they jack of to drawn children"and "Shit has to go" as  well as furries who admit to a RL attraction to it.


 
Most  furries, from my observations, personally don't care enough to try to  intervene. Most are apathetic, some are mildly antipathetic, a few are  angry as hell about it and carried on like retards when FA allowed it,  and some are into it themselves. I probably should not have mentioned  the RL attractions, because people are going to be inclined to argue  about that and not the general topic now. *shrugs and smiles innocently*



Willow said:


> Well  obviously if you're in a circle that is generally accepting, you're not  going to find many who'll be against that.



I should start a poll on this, and ask what level of personal animosity they hold towards this section of the population.



> Initially he did everything he could to keep it on FA but  obviously business like Paypal don't want to be associated with that  sort of thing for the obvious reasons. Drawn or not, doesn't matter.
> 
> So it's not really incompetence so much as it is wanting to appease the  bastards. But in the grand scheme of things it was either no site for  anyone or a site without puppy porn.



Yes, yes, PayPal  sucks for multiple reasons. I want you to answer me this question, then.  Why is Inkbunny better designed, better run, and is immune to these  kind of tactics despite its level of permissiveness (I take exception to  the prohibition on humans in porn, though)? It's not just PayPal being  twats. Something else is a factor here. Of course, now we're completely  going OT, but I suck at resisting temptations.




Batsy said:


> what the fuck Kantress? cub porn? REALLY?
> you are clearly a stupid little shit. you take pride in not being in a forum where we, I quote, FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER, and you gladly contribute to the drama on a forum where we argue about a shitton of things.
> good fucking job, m8.



I'm not sure what you're referring to. Your lack of capitolization and insults make that difficult... If it's the whole FA vs. Inkbunny thing, yes, I'm glad I'm not as exposed to personal attacks there and I don't needlessly and recreationally start battles (usually), but I sometimes like a good argument as much as the next furry. I also began expounding on the whole cub porn thing because it was related to the internal conflicts the OP was speaking of, and as a cub enthusiast, I wanted to dispel the notion even more absolutely that one section of the fandom is trying to destroy the other.


----------



## Willow (Sep 28, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> Wait, so is cub porn furry CP?


Yes.



Kantress said:


> I should start a poll on this, and ask what level of personal animosity they hold towards this section of the population.


Don't. 




> Yes, yes, PayPal  sucks for multiple reasons. I want you to answer me this question, then.  Why is Inkbunny better designed, better run, and is immune to these  kind of tactics despite its level of permissiveness (I take exception to  the prohibition on humans in porn, though)? It's not just PayPal being  twats. Something else is a factor here. Of course, now we're completely  going OT, but I suck at resisting temptations.


Technically it's not off topic since it _does_ have to do with intolerance. 

But this is a question I can't answer. Because I have no clue how IB runs since I don't use the site. 
If I were to guess it's because IB doesn't run its donation proceeds through PayPal whereas FA does. Or at least used to.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

Before this into a CP and IB battle, I am going to have to ask it to halt since we all know what it turns into.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 28, 2013)

If you want to argue about Cub porn, start your own thread please.

Granted, I feel repulsed by CP, but still


----------



## Teal (Sep 28, 2013)

Sorry OZ, didn't see your post. ^^;


----------



## Aleu (Sep 28, 2013)

So...

Not getting the hate about Uncle Kage. He seems fairly down to earth and I enjoyed listening to his stories. He's also really approachable. IMO just seems like people wanting another thing/person to hate about furries.


----------



## PureObsidian (Sep 28, 2013)

Who's Uncle Kage? 
I was too lazy to read everything in this thread. #Laziness
Either way, I think people just need to calm down, because raging at someone, especially over the internet, either side won't come to an agreement.
UNLESS, everything I said was completely unrelated to this thread, I guess i'm retarded. I'll shut up now.

And i'm pretty sure some people here absolutely hate me too. Kinda sad, most of the things I say I don't really mean. 

Awh D:


----------



## Aleu (Sep 28, 2013)

PureObsidian said:


> Who's Uncle Kage?
> I was too lazy to read everything in this thread. #Laziness


Google, you lazy git


PureObsidian said:


> Either way, I think people just need to calm down, because raging at someone, especially over the internet, either side won't come to an agreement.
> UNLESS, everything I said was completely unrelated to this thread, I guess i'm retarded. I'll shut up now.


Good



PureObsidian said:


> And i'm pretty sure some people here absolutely hate me too. Kinda sad, most of the things I say I don't really mean.
> 
> Awh D:



You only have 54 posts. You haven't even really established yourself. Sorry you're just not all that memorable.


----------



## PureObsidian (Sep 28, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Google, you lazy git
> 
> You only have 54 posts. You haven't even really established yourself. Sorry you're just not all that memorable.



Oh I know i'm not memorable, and you're right.
And yea, I am too lazy. I'm just going to herp derp all over mah floor @_@.


----------



## Wither (Sep 28, 2013)

Kage has a very... "better than thou" attitude. 
That's just how I see it. I may be completely wrong.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 28, 2013)

Batsy said:


> what the fuck Kantress? cub porn? REALLY?
> you are clearly a stupid little shit. you take pride in not being in a forum where we, I quote, FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER, and you gladly contribute to the drama on a forum where we argue about a shitton of things.
> good fucking job, m8.



There's better ways to get the point across. If you have to go into base insults you're not welcome here. The forum can get snarky but you don't need to directly insult users every time. 

That being said. I don't get where the hell "war" comes from. Its just a fandom with different perspectives, not unlike other fandoms who have their own little cultures. Calling it war is just silly.


----------



## DarkShadow777 (Sep 29, 2013)

Hem... just to get this in my head... does cub porn is something like toddlercon? if it is... it's totally gross... at least for me


----------



## Teal (Sep 29, 2013)

DarkShadow777 said:


> Hem... just to get this in my head... does cub porn is something like toddlercon? if it is... it's totally gross... at least for me


Cub porn is porn of anthro children.


----------



## Connor J. Coyote (Sep 29, 2013)

Charrio said:


> People sit there and fight over what's a furry?



Believe it or not, yes they do.


----------



## MochiElZorro (Sep 29, 2013)

PS We all know the truth, furry is a kind of laundry detergent and Kage is a dryer sheet, which is why nobody likes him. :V


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Sep 29, 2013)

So, after we fought over each other, had very intellectual discussions on child porn, and made metaphors relating to laundry detergent, I have formally concluded there's absolutely no reason I should add anything to this thread.


----------



## Heliophobic (Sep 29, 2013)

Why does this thread still exist? Why is everyone so fascinated by this? I don't get it. It's just another shitty thread.


----------



## Wither (Sep 29, 2013)

Saliva said:


> Why does this thread still exist? Why is everyone so fascinated by this? I don't get it. It's just another shitty thread.



40 percent of the new threads are trash. 
This one was more of a "pass by" thread. 
You just kinda read it out of boredom and maybe you post.


----------



## Kantress (Sep 29, 2013)

I read it because I'm both a furry and a military enthusiast, and having both in the title constituted "SHINIES!" to me.


----------



## MochiElZorro (Sep 29, 2013)

I assumed we all were here to embiggen our e-peen... I mean post count.


----------



## Teal (Sep 29, 2013)

MochiElZorro said:


> I assumed we all were here to embiggen our e-peen... I mean post count.


I'm here because I like posting in stupid threads.


----------



## DarkShadow777 (Sep 30, 2013)

Teal said:


> Cub porn is porn of anthro children.



OMFG!!! Disgusting!!! Sorry... I had to say it... anything involving child porn (even anthros) is nasty >: (


----------



## electricfennec (Sep 30, 2013)

I think I need a new brain after reading this entire thread. :c


----------



## MochiElZorro (Sep 30, 2013)

DarkShadow777 said:


> OMFG!!! Disgusting!!! Sorry... I had to say it... anything involving child porn (even anthros) is nasty >: (



I would rather them jack to animal kid drawings than for them to actually do things irl to either kids or animals. Maybe that is just me. :|


----------



## BRN (Sep 30, 2013)

MochiElZorro said:


> I would rather them jack to animal kid drawings than for them to actually do things irl to kids



Pretty much this... 

When you prohibit something, the reasons that made people go after it aren't removed as well.

Better to have a harmless output for harmful behaviours, than to try and ban the human condition.


----------



## Fallowfox (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm not sure what this has do to with the original topic. Whatever view you exhibit on that matter it bares no relation to the futility and silliness of the hobby/lifestyle argument, which sometimes carries the strange reasoning that 'I'm not serious about being a furry, and I'm serious that nobody else should be,' x3


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Sep 30, 2013)

SIX, it would actually increase due to the taboo effect.


----------



## Namba (Sep 30, 2013)

Wither said:


> Kage has a very... "better than thou" attitude.
> That's just how I see it. I may be completely wrong.


In his own mind he's the face of the fandom. To everyone else who doesn't suck his dick, he's as much of a tool as his buddy 2.


----------



## DarkShadow777 (Sep 30, 2013)

SIX said:


> Pretty much this...
> 
> When you prohibit something, the reasons that made people go after it aren't removed as well.
> 
> Better to have a harmless output for harmful behaviours, than to try and ban the human condition.



Sadly enough... I agree with this, this keeps kids safe from them... I hope


----------



## Wither (Sep 30, 2013)

SIX said:


> Pretty much this...
> 
> When you prohibit something, the reasons that made people go after it aren't removed as well.
> 
> Better to have a harmless output for harmful behaviours, than to try and ban the human condition.



They got so furry, right? 
(honestly I couldn't care less if they re-allowed it. I can deal with a few weird pedophiles jerking off to art if I can deal with people jerking it rape, vore, cock tf, scat, gore, ect.)


----------



## Willow (Sep 30, 2013)

My favorite part of this argument has always been to instead of actually fix the problem (via counseling) just offer a band-aid solution.


----------



## Wither (Sep 30, 2013)

Willow said:


> My favorite part of this argument has always been to instead of actually fix the problem (via counseling) just offer a band-aid solution.



We can't exactly force people into counseling over the Internet. Only _they_ can do that.


----------



## MochiElZorro (Sep 30, 2013)

Wither said:


> They got so furry, right?
> (honestly I couldn't care less if they re-allowed it. I can deal with a few weird pedophiles jerking off to art if I can deal with people jerking it rape, vore, cock tf, scat, gore, ect.)



Heh. "Re-allow it". As if CP doesn't still happen on FA? All ya gotta do is slap a different label on it like "Vore" "TF" or "Scat" or similar and most of it is ignored. And yes, I've stumbled across such artworks many times, even new ones and multiples by the same artists. It's sickening, and it's a bit sad that FA can't uphold its own policies.

Edit: For example, I recall one artist with a gallery full of human children either masturbating or fucking while turning into ferals... it was rather sickening. I feel like I wanna vomit just recalling it.


----------



## Wither (Sep 30, 2013)

MochiElZorro said:


> Heh. "Re-allow it". As if CP doesn't still happen on FA? All ya gotta do is slap a different label on it like "Vore" "TF" or "Scat" or similar and most of it is ignored. And yes, I've stumbled across such artworks many times, even new ones and multiples by the same artists. It's sickening, and it's a bit sad that FA can't uphold its own policies.
> 
> Edit: For example, I recall one artist with a gallery full of human children either masturbating or fucking while turning into ferals... it was rather sickening. I feel like I wanna vomit just recalling it.



I'm not sure what your point is. 

QQ


----------



## MochiElZorro (Sep 30, 2013)

Wither said:


> I'm not sure what your point is.
> 
> QQ



I'm just saying, the ban may have done things immediately after it, but it isn't even a ban if galleries full of shit gets past the radar regularly. Why is CP even a part of this thread again? Some idiot brought it up I thin? Hell if I know. I'm just here to say random shit and chew bubble gum... and I'm all outta random shit.


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## PastryOfApathy (Sep 30, 2013)

Willow said:


> My favorite part of this argument has always been to instead of actually fix the problem (via counseling) just offer a band-aid solution.



To be fair, furfags would make godawful counselors.


----------



## Jabberwocky (Sep 30, 2013)

this thread is still alive?
goodness.


----------



## Teal (Sep 30, 2013)

Batsy said:


> this thread is still alive?
> goodness.


It's a zombie. D:


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## BennyBunnycorn (Sep 30, 2013)

Alex The Lemur said:


> The regulars here are quite alright, but I can't stand about 80% of the fandom and that's being generous.
> 
> Also, Kurrel the Raven is a stupid idiot and so is uncle Kage. Fuck 'em both.



Actually, most of the furries I've met outside this forum are actually rather pleasant people. Ironical, the "regulars here" are actually the only unlikable furries I've met.


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## Dire Newt (Sep 30, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Actually, most of the furries I've met outside this forum are actually rather pleasant people. Ironical, the "regulars here" are actually the only unlikable furries I've met.



I missed you.


----------



## Mr. Sparta (Sep 30, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Actually, most of the furries I've met outside this forum are actually rather pleasant people. Ironical, the "regulars here" are actually the only unlikable furries I've met.


The difference is that the people who you meet outside actually have a life. Us on the other hand...


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## Ozriel (Sep 30, 2013)

Mr. Sparta said:


> The difference is that the people who you meet outside actually have a life. Us on the other hand...



It depends on the fur. The ones IRL I know are bums and usually found masturbating in the library where I work and pitching a fit when I tell them to look at their porn at their house.
Nothing pisses me off more than a bunch of lowlife furfags jacking off in the library.

And to assume that people here have no lives is condescending at most.


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## Wither (Sep 30, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Actually, most of the furries I've met outside this forum are actually rather pleasant people. Ironical, the "regulars here" are actually the only unlikable furries I've met.


Not very ironic. 
I'm not surprised no one here likes you, being an arrogant and ignorant furfag. 


Ozriel said:


> It depends on the fur. The ones IRL I know are bums and usually found masturbating in the library where I work and pitching a fit when I tell them to look at their porn at their house.
> Nothing pisses me off more than a bunch of lowlife furfags jacking off in the library.
> 
> And to assume that people here have no lives is condescending at most.



Who in the _fuck _thinks jacking off in a library is ok? Ew ew ew. 
And why is there a high concentration of furries at that library?


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Wither said:


> Not very ironic.
> I'm not surprised no one here likes you, being an arrogant and ignorant furfag.
> 
> 
> ...



Sex offenders and horny teenagers with prudish parents.


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

How about we cut down the personal insults towards other users, mhm? Like, to zero?


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## Kantress (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Actually, most of the furries I've met outside this forum are actually rather pleasant people. Ironical, the "regulars here" are actually the only unlikable furries I've met.



Have to agree with you, Benny. It's as if the most prolific members of FAF are going out of their way to refute the assertion there's no civil war going on, by being as unmitigatedly immature and offensive as they can get away with. This is essentially a larger version of Vivisector, honestly. Outside of here, I don't encounter these problems, either. 

Also, I'm only replying now because I could make my post relevant to the topic, internal conflict, finally.


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## Kitsune Cross (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Actually, most of the furries I've met outside this forum are actually rather pleasant people. Ironical, the "regulars here" are actually the only unlikable furries I've met.



Why are you even here? I saw you bitch in tumblr about how evil we are.


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## Willow (Oct 1, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> Why are you even here? I saw you bitch in tumblr about how evil we are.


The better question is why are you following him on Tumblr?


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## Mr. Sparta (Oct 1, 2013)

Corto said:


> How about we cut down the personal insults towards other users, mhm? Like, to zero?


Isn't that the whole point of this thread? :V


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Have to agree with you, Benny. It's as if the most prolific members of FAF are going out of their way to refute the assertion there's no civil war going on,



There is no civil war because it's a hobby, not a government or state entity.


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## Dire Newt (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> There is no civil war because it's a hobby, not a government or state entity.



inb4 hobby vs. lifestyle argument


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## Willow (Oct 1, 2013)

Dire Newt said:


> inb4 hobby vs. lifestyle argument


Let's not and just pretend it happened.


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## PastryOfApathy (Oct 1, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> Why are you even here? I saw you bitch in tumblr about how evil we are.



Link? My curiosity has been peaked.


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## Kitsune Cross (Oct 1, 2013)

Willow said:


> The better question is why are you following him on Tumblr?



I am not, looking at #furry fandom(somehow there is 0% porn there) I got to his post



PastryOfApathy said:


> Link? My curiosity has been peaked.



I don't have it, was on my phone back then :/


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

PastryOfApathy said:


> Link? My curiosity has been peaked.


How about no.



Kitsune Cross said:


> I am not, looking at #furry fandom(somehow there is 0% porn there)/


You lied to me. Why did you lie to me? I didn't even know shark girls were a thing. Now I can't take comfort in that ignorance any longer.


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## Willow (Oct 1, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> I am not, looking at #furry fandom(somehow there is 0% porn there) I got to his post


You probably didn't find porn because I think Tumblr blacklists it on mobile. 
But the first post in the tag is fox tits.


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

Every single post is porn. The only non-porn posts are someone talking about how well tagged the post porns are, and someone arguing that not all furries are fetishists and it's not a sex thing. I'm off to delete my browser history now.


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## Teal (Oct 1, 2013)

Kantress said:


> Have to agree with you, Benny. It's as if the most prolific members of FAF are going out of their way to refute the assertion there's no civil war going on.


 I didn't know hobbies could have civil wars.
Please tell me more. :3


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## Kitsune Cross (Oct 1, 2013)

Willow said:


> You probably didn't find porn because I think Tumblr blacklists it on mobile.
> But the first post in the tag is fox tits.



Another reason then to love my mobile.


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## Wither (Oct 1, 2013)

Corto said:


> How about no.
> 
> 
> You lied to me. Why did you lie to me? I didn't even know shark girls were a thing. Now I can't take comfort in that ignorance any longer.


Shark tits are most glorious Cort-


Corto said:


> Every single post is porn. The only non-porn posts are someone talking about how well tagged the post porns are, and someone arguing that not all furries are fetishists and it's not a sex thing. I'm off to delete my browser history now.


Oh. I actually wish I could refuse this because I don't want to really believe I like sexy anthro animals and that I really, genuinely like non-pornographic parts of the fandom only. 
But, uh... there's no real denying it. I think I should be ashamed, but I'm really not which worries me.


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## asdfKBSmASH (Oct 1, 2013)

A question that I have wondered, is where has the definition between furry and non-furry been explicitly written?

Wait, it hasn't, it's always been a matter of declaration.

Either you're going to associate yourself as a furry, as one who openly embraces the personally-imposed definition of the concept, or otherwise.

Yes and no, given whatever bias. That's furry.


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## Heliophobic (Oct 1, 2013)

asdfKBSmASH said:


> A question that I have wondered, is where has the definition between furry and non-furry been explicitly written?
> 
> Wait, it hasn't, it's always been a matter of declaration.
> 
> ...



Don't start this shit. Not again.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Oct 1, 2013)

But Saliva, we haven't heard this before. Let the man elaborate


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Kitsune Cross said:


> Why are you even here? I saw you bitch in tumblr about how evil we are.



Because nothing says you are better than everyone else by crying on tumblr how everyone is being antagonistic when said person posts glib and antagonizing posts themselves. :V

The irony is astounding.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Wither said:


> Not very ironic.
> I'm not surprised no one here likes you, being an arrogant and ignorant furfag.



Please go play in the street. 



Ozriel said:


> Because nothing says you are better than everyone else by crying on tumblr how everyone is being antagonistic when said person posts glib and antagonizing posts themselves. :V
> 
> The irony is astounding.



Ugh, I knew the "I'm better than you" card would be played sooner or later, despite the fact that you're missing the point of my qualms. It's not a matter of "I'm better than you," it's a matter of not liking people who are unwelcoming, rude, offensive, and generally try to make life WORSE for furries in general. And the worst part of it is is that I doubt you guys even care about the feelings of others, thinking that hiding behind the "Internet: Serious Business" excuse will justify every mean and cruel action. 

As well, furries aren't all that sex crazed. Yeah, there are SOME, but every fandom has their sex-crazed members, including fandoms that DON'T involve talking animals. What, you see a lot of porn online? Maybe it's because it sticks in your mind more. It's something you don't want to see, so when you DO see it, it sticks in your mind longer. Personally, I just don't pay attention to it. If people want to draw porn or fat fetish or anything else, fine. It doesn't effect my life any, and it really doesn't need to effect anyone elses.

And from personal experience, I've noticed a lot of the nicer people here generally don't post or make themselves known as often as the regulars do, and generally stay more on the art site.



Kantress said:


> Have to  agree with you, Benny. It's as if the most prolific members of FAF are  going out of their way to refute the assertion there's no civil war  going on, by being as unmitigatedly immature and offensive as they can  get away with. This is essentially a larger version of Vivisector,  honestly. Outside of here, I don't encounter these problems, either.
> 
> Also, I'm only replying now because I could make my post relevant to the topic, internal conflict, finally.



Thank you.


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## Jabberwocky (Oct 1, 2013)

ya'll need to chill out. And Benny, butt out of comments that were made towards other users. You simply become easy bait.
well newsflash honey, the furs here I think are wonderful and NORMAL people (hahaha furfags :V) and yeah, gasp, CAN BE EXTREMELY NICE. Difference is here we tend to get a lot of dumbass attacks and me moments. You act like you're a goddamn saint and everyone else is below you, I am starting to think that all this opposition against people in the forum is just attention-whoring. Before labeling an entire forum as downright MEAN, check yourself first. Or at least get to know the members here, you git.

Ranting done.

don't be mean to my wither-san >:V


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## Fallowfox (Oct 1, 2013)

Whilst a little haughty BennyBunnyCorn is correct that a large number of users avoid posting on the forums because they view some of us as antagonistic and condescending. 

This isn't purely related to the moot arguments of whether all furries should be considered hobbyists and nothing more, but I think that _does_ have something to do with it. Many of us are all too glad to tactily lump someone who says 'paws' instead of hands in their first thread into the same barrel of people who wear costumes at job interviews for instance.
The resulting vibe is cynical; you should only post on this forum if you pretend you don't enjoy being a furry; that it's just a challenge of putting up with all the other disgusting furries, that everybody is insufferable but us. 

Whilst a great deal of us may not feel that we're actually creating that impression we do actively repel mainsite users; remember how many registered when FA went down recently after everyone was expecting a tsunami? You could count them on one hand.


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## Wither (Oct 1, 2013)

Batsy said:


> don't be mean to my wither-san >:V


:3c


Fallowfox said:


> Whilst a little haughty BennyBunnyCorn is correct that a large number of users avoid posting on the forums because they view some of us as antagonistic and condescending.
> 
> This isn't purely related to the moot arguments of whether all furries should be considered hobbyists and nothing more, but I think that _does_ have something to do with it. Many of us are all too glad to tactily lump someone who says 'paws' instead of hands in their first thread into the same barrel of people who wear costumes at job interviews for instance.
> The resulting vibe is cynical; you should only post on this forum if you pretend you don't enjoy being a furry; that it's just a challenge of putting up with all the other disgusting furries, that everybody is insufferable but us.
> ...


It's very honestly true. 

It'd actually be nice to get new members who don't agree with literally everything oldfags do. 
Nobody has the balls to do that though. That, or they're like me and get slowly corrupted into a cynical fuck. 

But uh

New members plz thx


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## BRN (Oct 1, 2013)

Wither said:


> It's very honestly true.
> 
> It'd actually be nice to get new members who don't agree with literally everything oldfags do.
> Nobody has the balls to do that though. That, or they're like me and get slowly corrupted into a cynical fuck.
> ...



Hey, don't get me wrong, I agree with you - but it ain't necessary to distinguish between old and new.

New blood can be useful in one way, but even oldfags can object to oldfags. And so they should, critter. |3


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## Wither (Oct 1, 2013)

SIX said:


> Hey, don't get me wrong, I agree with you - but it ain't necessary to distinguish between old and new.
> 
> New blood can be useful in one way, but even oldfags can object to oldfags. And so they should, critter. |3



Oh, I'm only referencing the views on furries themselves.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Whilst a great deal of us may not feel that we're actually creating that impression we do actively repel mainsite users; remember how many registered when FA went down recently after everyone was expecting a tsunami? You could count them on one hand.



That's because the downtime announcement was a twitter post and the site was still up - just in read only mode. If it was completely down and the down page and linked to the forums, it would have probably had more users. However, people's attention are split with other things like Tumblr or livestreams. 

There were users mostly asking for free art or advertising commissions/streams more than anything. FA is just one big advertisement for a number of artists these days.


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## Distorted (Oct 1, 2013)

Oh dear, I'm starting to see alliances form. I hope it doesn't get all Dissidia up in this peace.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Ugh, I knew the "I'm better than you" card would be played sooner or later, despite the fact that you're missing the point of my qualms. It's not a matter of "I'm better than you," it's a matter of not liking people who are unwelcoming, rude, offensive, and generally try to make life WORSE for furries in general. And the worst part of it is is that I doubt you guys even care about the feelings of others, thinking that hiding behind the "Internet: Serious Business" excuse will justify every mean and cruel action.
> 
> As well, furries aren't all that sex crazed. Yeah, there are SOME, but every fandom has their sex-crazed members, including fandoms that DON'T involve talking animals. What, you see a lot of porn online? Maybe it's because it sticks in your mind more. It's something you don't want to see, so when you DO see it, it sticks in your mind longer. Personally, I just don't pay attention to it. If people want to draw porn or fat fetish or anything else, fine. It doesn't effect my life any, and it really doesn't need to effect anyone elses.
> 
> And from personal experience, I've noticed a lot of the nicer people here generally don't post or make themselves known as often as the regulars do, and generally stay more on the art site.



Let me break this down to you and dump my "motherfuckin'" problems on this forum for a bit because I rarely do this. You can call me an asswipe oldfag for glorifying this forum, I don't really care.

The worse experiences from the fandom have come from the lifestylers that are both tactless, irresponsible and have no concept of self identity. The furries that I encounter at work use the persecution argument when I ask them publicly and professionally to turn on their filters when browsing an art sit like FA. You know what they did? Harassed me both at work and at the local furmeets I go to hang out with some of my friends. There, they call me names to get a response, and call my manager making a issue because I told them to do the considerate thing when in a public library to turn on their filter. They can't go back to the library for a year due to policy violations, but that does not stop them publicly and on FA. I get e-stalked and talked by them, and a few of the mods that I confided in before did nothing about it. Instead, I get a bunch of rumors spread about me because I did my job as per policy. I have to hold my tongue, because if I blow up and lower myself to them, they will lose their teeth. 

At Anthrocon, I was sexually harassed by said lifestylers who felt entitled to free sex. Dorsai did not a damn thing when I gave them the badge names. When I have to do my job as a staffer, they ignore me and call me all sorts of names, even when I asked them multiple times before giving them the librarian stare. A few others also did the same to a friend of mine who also did her job. The staff as well did nothing and let the behavior perpetuate.

Online, I was sexually harassed by a furry I distanced myself because he felt the need to tell me that he wanted to rape me and I told him SEVERAL times that it made me very uncomfortable...but he still did it and made a call-out journal when I told him I didn't want to hang with him anymore because of his "Blame everyone" and his creeper behavior.

When I came into this fandom, I had expectations of acceptance and things when I was younger after brought by a friend. Instead, I get treated poorly by the ones that told me to accept everything and accept them and hold my tongue when I have an opinion. The same misogynist, disgusting people that makes me blessed to have my old Therian friends and other friends in the cosplay community to hang out with.


You know something? Even though this forum is considered by you and the other-self righteous "Furry Knights of Justice" as the sewage of the fandom because our opinions do not match yours, my best experiences here were meeting the regulars and oldfags in real life and hanging out with them at conventions. In addition to inviting them to the bigger meet events organized by the other 757furry staff and I. 

The others online here across the water like SIX and Fallow, I may disagree with some things they may post, but I respect them nonetheless along with several others here. 

You, on the other hand are an antagonizing self-righteous and insufferable person that keeps perpetuating and goading people into arguments with comments like these:



> Please go play in the street.



And driving us mods up the wall for abusing the report system. You are just as bad as the "bullies" you accuse the users by acting this way. Your martyr and persecution complex doesn't make you a hero at all. Find a better community that will jack off to your FAF bashing and do not return.


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Online, I was sexually harassed by a furry I distanced myself because he felt the need to tell me that he wanted to rape me and I told him SEVERAL times that it made me very uncomfortable...but he still did it and made a call-out journal when I told him I didn't want to hang with him anymore because of his "Blame everyone" and his creeper behavior.



Jesus fucking Christ Oz, I told you I was sorry. Stop holding that grudge. Also I'm not a furry.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Corto said:


> Jesus fucking Christ Oz, I told you I was sorry. Stop holding that grudge. Also I'm not a furry.



You are not forgiven until I get three bottles of tequila and Colombian gold.


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

Told you the TSA will have my balls on a platter if they find me smuggling coke again.


----------



## Mentova (Oct 1, 2013)

Corto said:


> Told you the TSA will have my balls on a platter if they find me smuggling coke again.



Hide it in drippy dragons from bad dragon. The TSA won't bother looking there. They'll just be like, "ugghhh not these weirdos again" and skip right past it. It's how I smuggle my meth.


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

I don't want to google "drippy dragons" so I'll just say "eeew" preemptively.


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## benignBiotic (Oct 1, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> The worse experiences from the fandom have come from the lifestylers that are both tactless, irresponsible and have no concept of self identity.


Nice post, but this in particular is so true. Furs who simply collect art, figures, whatever are harmless at worst. And there are the perfectly normal furs who live normal lives, have relationships, and spend afternoons on FA. FAF has its share of 2cool cynics, but they're easily avoided. Just stick with your good furry feels.

What really sours the experience are the insufferable, loud, and proud furs. They will show up expecting everyone to be their friend. They will show up and grind on you because 'it's just furry fun :3.' And They'll show up treating you like garbage if your involvement in the fur fandom doesn't hit their _religious zealot_ level.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> And from personal experience, I've noticed a lot of the nicer people here generally don't post or make themselves known as often as the regulars do, and generally stay more on the art site.



I'm going to let you in on several things as an artist. Furry fans are some of the worst fans I know of. I've had to deal with stalkers from this fandom more than anime or other art groups I was interested in. I love shit like comics, sci fi, fantasy etc. One of the things artists are more afraid here to have than most other sites are - an opinion.

The nice is something of a facade. Those people nice to you, will talk a lot of shit about you behind your back. They have a bit of cynicism and keep the nice for several reasons.

1. Fear of retaliation/harassment - there have been many with the story of that one guy who doesn't know when to stop and makes it their goal to keep bothering a person over something as simple as a disagreement

2. FA is seen as a way to make money, most of them have to put up a nice facade to keep the ball rolling. Some have such a huge fanbase they're seen as assholes to the rest who can't draw. They don't understand how some of them have become jaded towards this fandom and yet have to use them to keep money. 

3. Burden or obligation. There's so many times I've told artists here who keep questioning what they draw, to draw what they want and if they want to branch outside of furry smut or just furry *it's perfectly ok* but people who don't fucking even bother to understand that FA hosts more than furry art, have freaked out or degraded an artist for not drawing what they want. 

Yeah my experience at a furry con was reporting some dipshit that had child porn on his computer. Not drawn shit, actual child porn. My experience was someone groped me at an elevator. I've gone to many other cons before, so seriously WTF. Sci Fi cons bigger than furry ones, anime ones etc...


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> Nice post, but this in particular is so true. Furs who simply collect art, figures, whatever are harmless at worst. And there are the perfectly normal furs who live normal lives, have relationships, and spend afternoons on FA. FAF has its share of 2cool cynics, but they're easily avoided. Just stick with your good furry feels.
> 
> What really sours the experience are the insufferable, loud, and proud furs. They will show up expecting everyone to be their friend. They will show up and grind on you because 'it's just furry fun :3.' And They'll show up treating you like garbage if your involvement in the fur fandom doesn't hit their _religious zealot_ level.




It's so scary that it is on par with fanatical cult level. I don't care so much about the porn or people who look at it, but it drives me up the wall when people question if I have sex or like sex and harass me to draw porn for them.


----------



## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> My experience was someone groped me at an elevator.


Jesus fucking Christ Arshes, I told you I was sorry. Stop holding that grudge.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 1, 2013)

The only problem is that there are furries out there that acceptance, when in truth the easier thing to get is tolerance. The problem starts on why we cant have acceptance is due to to accept something you have to 100%, you cant show a lil bit of dislike towards something. This is actually why I dislike the Tolerant furs group cause in truth they are actually being acceptance furs group (hence why I supported the less tolerant group due to furries dont know the difference between tolerance and acceptance apparently also). Some people use Furry as a means to "run away" I mean I have actually met furries who do things that wouldnt really fly cause..."its the furry fandom, its how it is". Really? you want to rape my character(s) cause thats the normal thing in the furry fandom? you want to ruin my relationship with a friend that I been friends with for 7 years just cause you are jealous that I get art from them (that I paid for)? Sorry for being prudish I rather not cyber at all with every single stranger I walk past. Apparently theres so many things you suppose to be doing as a furry: Draw art for free, have no tact, don't be mean, don't voice your opinion and just accept everything. Literally in 10 years time (joined fandom at 14, now Im 24) I did went from seeing that stuff as ok to "whoa now, I don't think you need to have your opening statement to me as what your fetish is and what you want to do to my characters, please go".

This forum is probably the only furry forum I would even venture on cause at least here they push to have tact, and also they go the opposite of other furry forums. I mean I'm actually not allowed on the SoFurry Forums due to they know I'm a regular from FAF and they fear I might cause problems due to having a status of SoFurry Ambassador. They are on a "play nice in the school yard" rules while on FAF "we dont mind you having a fight, just make sure its above the belt". I rather get an infraction on FAF for going too far, than on SoFurry for just spitting at someone in the person's direction.


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## Mentova (Oct 1, 2013)

Let's just burn the fandom down guys. Pack it in, game over. We've done fucked up.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Whilst a little haughty BennyBunnyCorn is correct that a large number of users avoid posting on the forums because they view some of us as antagonistic and condescending.



I've tried to convince half a dozen main site artists who want critique to post a sketchbook here in the forums.  They've all declined precisely because of this.


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## benignBiotic (Oct 1, 2013)

Mentova said:


> Let's just burn the fandom down guys. Pack it in, game over. We've done fucked up.


We can rebuild it. Better than it was before. No more sparkledog bullshit.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

In order to change, the attitude must change on both sides, from the "Cynic" to the "No self-identity zealot" types.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 1, 2013)

UnburntDaenerys said:


> I've tried to convince half a dozen main site artists who want critique to post a sketchbook here in the forums.  They've all declined precisely because of this.


sucks that they dont bite the bullet anyway, I actually learn quite a bit from the art section of the forum on coloring art.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Oct 1, 2013)

Verin Asper said:


> sucks that they dont bite the bullet anyway, I actually learn quite a bit from the art section of the forum on coloring art.



There is a thread on this very forum - a fucking *stickied* thread - dedicated to making fun of people who are bad at art.

It doesn't exactly say much for our ability to offer constructive criticism.


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

You mean the fursuits topic?


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

UnburntDaenerys said:


> There is a thread on this very forum - a fucking *stickied* thread - dedicated to making fun of people who are bad at art.
> 
> It doesn't exactly say much for our ability to offer constructive criticism.



The Den is not made for constructive criticism?

It's like going to a burger joint expecting sushi. Tutorials and Critiques are made for constructive criticism 

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...r-be-good-as-an-artist-Message-of-Inspiration (other than the 404 where I can't find the original thread because CA devs kept fucking with shit during server moves and malware) hardly about making fun of bad art though.


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## Mentova (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The Den is not made for constructive criticism?
> 
> It's like going to a burger joint expecting sushi. Tutorials and Critiques are made for constructive criticism
> 
> http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...r-be-good-as-an-artist-Message-of-Inspiration (other than the 404 where I can't find the original thread because CA devs kept fucking with shit during server moves and malware) hardly about making fun of bad art though.


To be fair, the den is where most newbies go to first since its at the top of the list and is labeled as general furry discussion.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 1, 2013)

UnburntDaenerys said:


> There is a thread on this very forum - a fucking *stickied* thread - dedicated to making fun of people who are bad at art.
> 
> It doesn't exactly say much for our ability to offer constructive criticism.


...
Theres a damn tumblr that is dedicated to making it known on who is a bad furry artist, may it be of their art or of their business practices. They aren't safe anywhere anyway..

its called "giving fucks? you shouldnt."

A person to grow shouldnt be sheltered among the asspats of their fanbase, they do need to bite the bullet and get views from other people on how they should improve.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

Verin Asper said:


> ...
> Theres a damn tumblr that is dedicated to making it known on who is a bad furry artist, may it be of their art or of their business practices...
> 
> its called "giving fucks? you shouldnt."
> ...



Don't forget groups like FA horrors, and chans. People making fun of horrible art has been around for a long time.. http://badpaintingsofbarackobama.com/


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## UnburntDaenerys (Oct 1, 2013)

Yes, I am aware that drama comms exist.  But people who want critique don't go to lulz or furrytrainwrecks for a reason, they exist to mock, not help.



Verin Asper said:


> A person to grow shouldnt be sheltered among the asspats of their fanbase, they do need to bite the bullet and get views from other people on how they should improve.


I said that they wanted recommendations on where to get critique.  In their eyes, faf is lulz.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 1, 2013)

UnburntDaenerys said:


> Yes, I am aware that drama comms exist.  But people who want critique don't go to lulz or furrytrainwrecks for a reason, they exist to mock, not help.
> 
> 
> I said that they wanted recommendations on where to get critique.  In their eyes, faf is lulz.


Please dont put FAF to LULZ.net
They dont need that kind of honor of being a place full of tact and actual debates, than asspats...

If they view FAF as Lulz, then they should go to Sofurry forums...I'm sure they can get asspats of how their art is ok there


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm going to let you in on several things as  an artist. Furry fans are some of the worst fans I know of. I've had to  deal with stalkers from this fandom more than anime or other art groups I  was interested in. I love shit like comics, sci fi, fantasy etc. One of  the things artists are more afraid here to have than most other sites  are - an opinion.
> 
> The nice is something of a facade. Those people nice to you, will talk a  lot of shit about you behind your back. They have a bit of cynicism and  keep the nice for several reasons.
> 
> ...



Bullshit. Like I said, ALL fanbases have their sucky members. And  while we're on the subject, a lot of the worst fans I've met are fans of  series that DON'T have anthropomorphic animals (past villain  characters). Sure, furries and bronies and what have you may get a  little crazy and overreact, but I've noticed a lot of people outside the  various "furry" fandoms are usually just plain rotten. ...Note: This is  from personal experience. 

As for talking behind your back: no  one's perfect, and certainly not I. Sometimes people will be bugged by a  flaw of yours and be too afraid to say it to your face. Big woop. But  really awful people will LIE about you behind your back, and I've met  very few furries who actually do that.



benignBiotic said:


> What really sours the experience are the  insufferable, loud, and proud furs. They will show up expecting  everyone to be their friend. They will show up and grind on you because  'it's just furry fun :3.' And They'll show up treating you like garbage  if your involvement in the fur fandom doesn't hit their _religious zealot_ level.



So basically having a generally low tolerance for people who are  mean-spirited and don't even act like they're fans of what they're  supposed to be fans of makes me just like that? Is that what you're  saying?



benignBiotic said:


> We can rebuild it. Better than it was before. No more sparkledog bullshit.



In fact, no animals period. From now on, furries are ONLY allowed to draw humans. ...Wait a minute, that doesn't sound right.



UnburntDaenerys said:


> There is a thread on this very forum - a fucking *stickied* thread - dedicated to making fun of people who are bad at art.
> 
> It doesn't exactly say much for our ability to offer constructive criticism.



I wouldn't like my odds in that thread.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> So basically having a generally low tolerance for people who are  mean-spirited and don't even act like they're fans of what they're  supposed to be fans of makes me just like that? Is that what you're  saying?



That's not what he is stating. What he is stating is that furries outside of the internet at the con or meet scene thinks that it is acceptable behavior with other furries. It isn't. And there are furries who perpetuate that and think it is funny when a person demands that they stop.

Most furries do not have concept of personal space and get upset when you tell them that what they are doing makes them uncomfortable. When a fursuiter asks for a hug or when you want a hug from a fursuiter is fine. Putting your hands down the pants of a partial fursuiter to see if they have a penis or groping them when they asked you to stop is not.

If you are a furry that promotes sexual harassment, then I hope a furry that asks you to stop and sprays you with police grade mace when you don't teaches you a thing or two about personal space.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> That's not what he is stating. What he is stating is that furries outside of the internet at the con or meet scene thinks that it is acceptable behavior with other furries. It isn't. And there are furries who perpetuate that and think it is funny when a person demands that they stop.
> 
> Most furries do not have concept of personal space and get upset when you tell them that what they are doing makes them uncomfortable. When a fursuiter asks for a hug or when you want a hug from a fursuiter is fine. Putting your hands down the pants of a partial fursuiter to see if they have a penis or groping them when they asked you to stop is not.
> 
> If you are a furry that promotes sexual harassment, then I hope a furry that asks you to stop and sprays you with police grade mace when you don't teaches you a thing or two about personal space.



Ah, okay. Fortunately, I'm not that kind of furry.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 1, 2013)

So now we're onto discussing sexual harassment and pepper spray. I am not sure _what_ this has to do with the conversation about the triviality of the semantics of hobbying/lifestyling.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Bullshit. Like I said, ALL fanbases have their sucky members. And  while we're on the subject, a lot of the worst fans I've met are fans of  series that DON'T have anthropomorphic animals (past villain  characters). Sure, furries and bronies and what have you may get a  little crazy and overreact, but I've noticed a lot of people outside the  various "furry" fandoms are usually just plain rotten. ...Note: This is  from personal experience.



Sorry, calling you on your bullshit. Your personal experience doesn't truncate others. You can go in your hole and cry and have fits all you want, but hey truth hurts.



Fallowfox said:


> So now we're onto discussing sexual harassment and pepper spray. I am not sure _what_ this has to do with the conversation about the triviality of the semantics of hobbying/lifestyling.



It has a lot to do with the perception of the hobby itself, to which is generally negative.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Sorry, calling you on your bullshit. Your personal experience doesn't truncate others. You can go in your hole and cry and have fits all you want, but hey truth hurts.



Nor does anybody else's experience form the whole impression of any group, however dramatic. 

Our anecdotes are just that.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Sorry, calling you on your bullshit. Your personal experience doesn't truncate others. You can go in your hole and cry and have fits all you want, but hey truth hurts.



Fallow has a point. You think MY personal experience doesn't count? Truth is, my experience means as much to you as your experience does to me. So yeah, not "truth." Just your personal experience.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Nor does anybody else's experience form the whole impression of any group, however dramatic.
> 
> Our anecdotes are just that.



That's kinda the point. Benny is bent on saying "his perception is the truth". I'm merely stating that there are many personal experiences that can just counter his experience. So I don't know where you're going with this if you think it's a pissing match of whose personal experience is most important.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 1, 2013)

Nobody's personal experiences have much gravity in this discussion, especially when it is so disastrously off topic and all anybody seems to be interested in doing is telling eachother how much they suck.



Arshes Nei said:


> That's kinda the point. Benny is bent on  saying "his perception is the truth". I'm merely stating that there are  many personal experiences that can just counter his experience. So I  don't know where you're going with this if you think it's a pissing  match of whose personal experience is most important.



Ah; I thought you were trying to imply other personal experiences were definitive and representative.


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## Dire Newt (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> especially when it is so disastrously off topic and all anybody seems to be interested in doing is telling eachother how much they suck.



To be fair, this all sounds like a "furry war" to me!


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Nobody's personal experiences have much gravity in this discussion, especially when it is so disastrously off topic and all anybody seems to be interested in doing is telling eachother how much they suck.



The experiences do give some insight to how people's thoughts and experiences reflect their opinions of the fandom and that is it. There are really no absolute truths with experiences, just conformation bias.

The reasons why my disposition is so negative about lifestylers is because of my experiences that reflect my behavior towards them and nothing more while Benny has better experiences with them.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Fallow has a point. You think MY personal experience doesn't count? Truth is, my experience means as much to you as your experience does to me. So yeah, not "truth." Just your personal experience.




It doesn't if you think it's the most important. Simple as that.


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## Wither (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Fallow has a point. You think MY personal experience doesn't count? Truth is, my experience means as much to you as your experience does to me. So yeah, not "truth." Just your personal experience.



.... Wat. 
What's the point in arguing over anything if you're just going to ignore the other side?
It doesn't make any fucking sense to me. I cannot respect an opinion of any sort if the owner of said opinion shows no respect nor care for the opposing side.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> That's kinda the point. Benny is bent on saying "his perception is the truth". I'm merely stating that there are many personal experiences that can just counter his experience. So I don't know where you're going with this if you think it's a pissing match of whose personal experience is most important.



Wrong. What I'm actually trying to say is that our experiences are rather different. You claim that most furries are awful people, and I've actually noticed quite the opposite. Okay, so I may not have worded my posts the best, but still. I'm not trying to pass off my experiences as truth, but I'm not going to just treat YOURS as truth either.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Wrong. What I'm actually trying to say is that our experiences are rather different. You claim that most furries are awful people, and I've actually noticed quite the opposite. Okay, so I may not have worded my posts the best, but still. I'm not trying to pass off my experiences as truth, but I'm not going to just treat YOURS as truth either.



Not throughout this thread. You were saying everyone's opinions were bullshit. So why should we take anything from your experience. What you're "Trying to say" wasn't what you typed for sure.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Wrong. What I'm actually trying to say is that our experiences are rather different. You claim that most furries are awful people, and I've actually noticed quite the opposite. Okay, so I may not have worded my posts the best, but still. I'm not trying to pass off my experiences as truth, but I'm not going to just treat YOURS as truth either.



because that's your conformation bias (or myside bias) that also has some scary "Fox news-esque" things that state that everyone else is wrong but you. It's bias, that's it.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not throughout this thread. You were saying everyone's opinions were bullshit. So why should we take anything from your experience. What you're "Trying to say" wasn't what you typed for sure.



You ever stop to think that maybe it's YOU who's trying to pass THEIR experiences off as truth? Cause it kind of feels that way to me. Frankly, I was calling bullshit on the vibe that you believe your experiences are absolute and factual, not on the experiences themselves.



Ozriel said:


> because that's your conformation bias (or myside  bias) that also has some scary "Fox news-esque" things that state that  everyone else is wrong but you. It's bias, that's it.



No more bias than you guys, really. Frankly, I don't think I'm being that bias, I'm just not going to believe that most furries are awful just because you tell me they are. That doesn't make me "bias" or that everyone is wrong but me, it just means that my opinion on furries isn't going to change just cause someone else has a different opinion.


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## Kalmor (Oct 1, 2013)

I swear this thread has religion thread style arguments........... But not with religion.

Seriously, there are bad people in the fandom and there are good people. Both have as much right to call themselves a furry as the others.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

So it's now a No U argument?



Raptros said:


> I swear this thread has religion thread style arguments........... But not with religion.
> 
> Seriously, there are bad people in the fandom and there are good people. Both have as much right to call themselves a furry as the others.



That and those that are fans make themselves more welcoming to those interested but not going to call themselves one. Instead of this "Real furry" bullshit.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Fallow has a point. You think MY personal experience doesn't count? Truth is, my experience means as much to you as your experience does to me. So yeah, not "truth." Just your personal experience.


all your personal experience show that all fandoms have idiots and bad experience
What I dont accept is people going "my fandom is better it has nicer people in it" thats the biggest bullshit ever


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> No more bias than you guys, really. Frankly, I don't think I'm being that bias, I'm just not going to believe that most furries are awful just because you tell me they are.



Newsflash: you are. You are so convoluted in displaying your experiences as the whole truth when you are just like everyone else here. Your messiah complex needs to die instead of putting yourself as the Knight of Furry Truth above us "Terrible monsters". If you need a monster to slay, go somewhere else because you are undergeared here.




Arshes Nei said:


> So it's now a No U argument?
> 
> 
> 
> That and those that are fans make themselves more welcoming to those interested but not going to call themselves one. Instead of this "Real furry" bullshit.




"My kilt is better than your kilt"


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## Wither (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Wrong. What I'm actually trying to say is that our experiences are rather different. You claim that most furries are awful people, and I've actually noticed quite the opposite. Okay, so I may not have worded my posts the best, but still. I'm not trying to pass off my experiences as truth, but I'm not going to just treat YOURS as truth either.



Nobody trusts anybody. 
That gets us far.
To argue a point you must look at it from both sides. Right now you're on the defending side but you're playing offensive. It just doesn't work that way.
Take a moment and look at it from the other's point of view.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 1, 2013)

If we are now aware of our confirmation bias can we please stop entertaining it?

In my experience people describing themselves as hobbyists usually want to tacitly imply other furries are inferior to them. This does not mean that I presume this is what every hobbyist is like, or that it is even representative or a majority view. 

Neither group is fully distinct from the other or entirely homogenous by itself. Discussions which are made on the premise that they are are therefore moot.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> If we are now aware of our confirmation bias can we please stop entertaining it?



That's the problem, seems people *aren't*.

That's why the pissing match of "who is right" in their bias is going to continue.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> If we are now aware of our confirmation bias can we please stop entertaining it?
> 
> In my experience people describing themselves as hobbyists usually want to tacitly imply other furries are inferior to them. This does not mean that I presume this is what every hobbyist is like, or that it is even representative or a majority view.
> 
> Neither group is fully distinct from the other or entirely homogenous by itself. Discussions which are made on the premise that they are are therefore moot.




Both sides to it, really. There are some lifestylers that believe hobbyists are reject posers from /b/ and /anon/ that think the fandom is now cool. 

On the other side of the pond, hobbyists put lifestylers on par with WoW nerds that play 24/7 and have a IV full of mountain dew hooked to their arm and Trekkie nerds with more zits than Oprah has money.


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Verin Asper said:


> all your personal experience show that all fandoms have idiots and bad experience
> What I dont accept is people going "my fandom is better it has nicer people in it" thats the biggest bullshit ever



I never said anything about any fandom actually being "better," just that I've noticed differently.



Ozriel said:


> Newsflash: you are. You are so convoluted in displaying your experiences as the whole truth when you are just like everyone else here. Your messiah complex needs to die instead of putting yourself as the Knight of Furry Truth above us "Terrible monsters". If you need a monster to slay, go somewhere else because you are undergeared here.



You are absolutely, undeniably, *WRONG!* In all seriousness, you're just seeing what you WANT to see about me, and this post shows that YOU are the one treating their opinions as fact, NOT me. I don't *HAVE *a messiah complex, and I'm not trying to be the "Knight of Furry Truth." It is YOU guys who are biased. It is YOU who has a messiah complex. *I *am not trying to pass my opinions and experiences off as fact, but YOU guys seem to be.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> You are absolutely, undeniably, *WRONG!* In all seriousness, you're just seeing what you WANT to see about me, and this post shows that YOU are the one treating their opinions as fact, NOT me. I don't *HAVE *a messiah complex, and I'm not trying to be the "Knight of Furry Truth." It is YOU guys who are biased. It is YOU who has a messiah complex. *I *am not trying to pass my opinions and experiences off as fact, but YOU guys seem to be.




You think you are better than us losers, so why are you here? You are much,*much better* than us false beasts, sir knight!

You are the undeniable hero of the fandom, so take your blade and run it through our black hearts!


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## Wither (Oct 1, 2013)

No u


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## Dire Newt (Oct 1, 2013)

Holy shit, can we seriously stop this crap already?


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## Fallowfox (Oct 1, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Both sides to it, really. There are some lifestylers that believe hobbyists are reject posers from /b/ and /anon/ that think the fandom is now cool.
> 
> On the other side of the pond, hobbyists put lifestylers on par with WoW nerds that play 24/7 and have a IV full of mountain dew hooked to their arm and Trekkie nerds with more zits than Oprah has money.



Dare we make our own stereotype that people who think that way were at the back of queue when the brains were handed out?





edit: also, nobody likes being accused of having messiah complexes, are we really gonna do this and expect the conversation to become more civil or does everyone just want a massive argument so that there can be a whole bunch of drama?


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## BennyBunnycorn (Oct 1, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> You think you are better than us losers, so why are you here? You are much,*much better* than us false beasts, sir knight!
> 
> You are the undeniable hero of the fandom, so take your blade and run it through our black hearts!



Oh yes, I am SOOOOOO totally the bias one. (Sarcasm)



Dire Newt said:


> Holy shit, can we seriously stop this crap already?



Yes, may we please. This is a stupid argument.


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Dare we make our own stereotype that people who think that way were at the back of queue when the brains were handed out?



Yes. Yes we should.

Sheep go baa, cows go moo, Hobbyists go "It's a fucking hobby", Lifestylers go "Proud furry 4 lyfe". Pawn to king 4.


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## Harbinger (Oct 1, 2013)

War, war never changes...


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Oh yes, I am SOOOOOO totally the bias one. (Sarcasm)



 Wow, and I didn't even have to try, Sir Benny the Just!


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## Heliophobic (Oct 1, 2013)

BennyBunnycorn said:


> Oh yes, I am SOOOOOO totally the bias one. *(Sarcasm)*



No fucking shit.


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## Dire Newt (Oct 1, 2013)

I would just like to note that the word is "biased"

k I'm out see ya


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## Inpw (Oct 1, 2013)

OK Benny you are right and we are all stupid assholes. You are the only true furry and we are your followers. All hail BennyBunnycorn!


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## Mentova (Oct 1, 2013)

FUN POLICE COMING THROUGH!


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

God dammit Mentova I called dibs on this one.


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## Mentova (Oct 1, 2013)

Corto said:


> God dammit Mentova I called dibs on this one.



Should've had a quicker trigger finger!


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## Ozriel (Oct 1, 2013)

Stop posting after closing, you assholes! >:V


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 1, 2013)

Closed post wars 

_Edit skirmishes are still being reported, however -Corto_


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## Mentova (Oct 1, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> Stop posting after closing, you assholes! >:V



YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! I'M AN INDEPENDENT MAN WHO DON'T NEED NO WOMAN!


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## Corto (Oct 1, 2013)

THIS IS NEITHER THE TIME OR THE PLACE, MENTOVA.


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 1, 2013)

Quit wagging your mod dicks around guys, geez.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 2, 2013)

M. LeRenard said:


> Quit wagging your mod dicks around guys, geez.



Boobs > Dick.


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