# cheap bastard pc build



## Seekrit (Jul 18, 2013)

This latest Steam sale has swelled my game collection to twice its previous size. I'm using a laptop right now, and it is not cutting it for most of them. I want to play Borderlands 2 and ohmai Serious Sam looks like so much mindless fun. Since I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to technology for some reason I started looking for a budget pc build to do the job. Graphics are very unimportant for me, as long as the damn thing runs fullspeed I don't care if everything looks like an N64 game. Found this easy enough, and wanted some opinions on it. It looks like it'll suit my needs and comes in at just under 500 US Buckaroos. For anyone who doesn't like links here's the specs:

-AMD A10-6800K Richland APU
-SilverStone Argon AR01 Cooler
-8GB Kingston HyperX Predator 1866MHz
-MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 FM2 Board
-Thermaltake TR-500 500W PSU
-1TB Samsung 7200RPM HDD
-LG 24X DVD RW Optical Drive
-Thermaltake V3 Case
-120mm Cooler Master fan

Criticisms? Improvements? Help this cheap bastard out pls.


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## BRN (Jul 18, 2013)

I've had problems with low-power cheap PSUs before, so I google'd your PSU and found a sledge of bad reviews. Trimming the fat off the CPU, GPU, cooling and motherboard really is ~acceptable~, but your PSU is bloody important. Might be worth a better investment.

Can't fault the choice of AMD's A10-6800, and the RAM is nice (18xxMHz is fine, 21xxMHz would have been better). I can't say anything about your motherboard either way, and Samsung HDDs have never done me wrong. More fans would have been nice, but Thermaltake do nice cases with decent airflow. All in all, none of this is incredible -- only your PSU looks like a weak link to me, but it might be a serious weaklink. Comfortable with replacing it? You might have to learn how to -- according to reviews, it could get noisy or fail within a few months.


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## Ji-Ji (Jul 18, 2013)

I had to build my PC in a fortnight last year on the cheap to mix music as my laptop held up two weeks before hand in. I found a load of dealers in eBay which saved me a lot. (Mono, CPU  + ram bundles are worth a gander on there.) 
I also got an Alpine 750w PSU for like £17.99 (which I've saw in stores at double that.) And that's gave me no issues, not loud either. 

However this could all get argued with i'm just letting you know what I did in case it helps in any way.


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## Runefox (Jul 18, 2013)

I see they're going for the A10 for the graphics processor; The Radeon HD 8670D IGP should handle Borderlands and Serious Sam with ease, probably at medium-high and high respectively without any problems. One thing to keep in mind is that the CPU is quad core on a technicality only; Two of the cores lack floating point capability, which will impact gaming performance somewhat. For these games, not much of an issue, but something to keep in mind going forward.

I have heard of heat concerns with the A10, so the Argon is probably a good compromise between cooling performance and cost. You don't need anything too impressive unless you're looking to overclock. That case actually already comes with an intake and exhaust 120mm fans; Coupled with the power supply and aftermarket CPU cooler, that should be plenty of airflow for this kind of system, and you can shave off a few of your local currency by omitting the extra 120mm fan.

It's true that the RAM could be bumped up to 2133 if you could find it at the same price; While most A-series APU's only support 1866, the A10-6800K is actually capable of handling the extra speed without overclocking. Speaking of which, the motherboard they've chosen is manageable at best; If at all possible, I'd recommend picking up an ASUS F2A85-M/CSM instead; Not only is it a higher quality board, but it features four RAM slots instead of two, and has the best chipset currently available for the FM2 socket, the A85X, which supports adding up to two graphics cards for future growth. I'm not sure how much more it will be in your local currency. It retails here for $99, and in the UK for 56 pounds.

Definitely agreed on the power supply. Thermaltake supplies aren't the worst out there, but they aren't great, either. I would suggest the Corsair CX500 instead if you can find it for a similar price. If not, XFX markets a PRO550W power supply that is a rebranded Seasonic unit, which is highly reliable and comes in around the same price (one retailer here in Canada has them both on for about the same price on sale; Regular price the XFX is about $15 more). The power supply is the one main thing you don't want to cheap out on, since it is also the one thing that can directly affect every other part of the computer. A couple years ago (actually, more like 5), I made the mistake of purchasing a 600W SPI power supply thinking it was rather good quality, and it ended up taking out my motherboard when it died overnight. Manufacturers who don't offer a 5 year warranty on their power supplies aren't worth dealing with.

TL;DR: It's not a terrible build, but cheap is taken to an extreme in one area and then cooling is heavily focused on in another. Bear in mind that local pricing may differ based on what's being shown there, and you may actually find some better parts on sale from time to time. Do you know where you'd be picking up these parts from? That could help tailor the individual part replacements and track the cost a little more easily.


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## Seekrit (Jul 18, 2013)

Oh I do so love good advice. So a better PSU is a must, fair enough. I'm willing to splurge for that and better ram, I may be tight (hehe) but I do make exceptions when necessary. If I can get that ASUS motherboard Rune mentioned I will, it shouldn't be a problem.

As for actually getting the parts, I was considering eurieka.ie. Things like this are usually more expensive in Ireland, I'd buy from the UK but a lot of websites don't ship here.


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## Runefox (Jul 19, 2013)

Hmm... The site is horrendously slow and buggy (half the time the pages don't load or error out), and while the F2A85-M/CSM isn't there, I managed to find this board, which is a little higher into overkill territory but is the only one that has the expansion and RAM slots. :< The other boards available either have only two RAM slots, don't have any SATA 6Gbps ports, or are more expensive again.

Little more digging, I found another Irish retailer, Elara, who seem to have double the selection, and have the F2A85-M available on sale for 91 Euro including VAT, which is a pretty okay price for it. Another retailer, Dabs, has it for 79 Euro, which is pretty freaking stellar, but it looks like it's a special order part, which means you might have to wait on it once you order. Looks like Dabs also has the A10-6800k for 135 Euro, which again is a pretty OK price (my usual source is $157 CAD not including tax). Comparing the other online shops, Dabs seems to be the most reasonably priced.

I'd do more digging but I've been up all night playing StarDrive and it's 5:22 AM.

EDIT: It is now 11:41 PM.



AMD A10-6800k APU - *â‚¬135.14* 


ASUS F2A85-M - *â‚¬79.51* 
 

Kingston HyperX Predator DDR3-2133 2x4GB - *â‚¬77.77* (This is actually _cheaper_ than the 1866 kit) 
 

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 - *â‚¬20.89* // Arctic Cooling Freezer A30 -*â‚¬36.70* (Overclocking? Get this one) 
 

XFX 550W Core Edition - *â‚¬60.65* (Remember to register with XFX to get your 5 year warranty; 2 years if not registered) 
 

Zalman Z9 Mid Tower w/2x120mm (intake + exhaust) fans - *â‚¬42.25* (ThermalTake V3 doesn't appear to be available anywhere in IE; This is the least expensive case that is actually half decent and relatively comparable. Bonus: Tool-less drive bays! 
 

Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB cache 7200RPM HDD - *â‚¬59.15* (Between Seagate and WD it's a wash in both price/performance - If you want WD for brand purposes, it's like half a Euro extra) 
 

Samsung 24x DVD-RW drive - *â‚¬15.36* 
 

Windows 8 x64 - *â‚¬88.57* 

*Total (incl. VAT): â‚¬579.29* + Free shipping to Republic of Ireland addresses for orders over â‚¬299

(Just how tight _are_ you?)


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## Seekrit (Jul 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> EDIT: It is now 11:41 PM.
> 
> AMD A10-6800k APU - *â‚¬135.14*
> ASUS F2A85-M - *â‚¬79.51*
> ...



Rune, you magnificent bastard, thank you so much for finding all this ;^;

I should be able to buy all the parts in about 3 weeks, I shall ofcourse let the internet know of my unbridled joy at having a half-decent PC. It might be a good reference for others who don't want to spend a fortune on hardware.



			
				Runefox said:
			
		

> (Just how tight _are_ you?)



Now that would be tellin' ;3


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## Runefox (Jul 20, 2013)

Seekrit said:


> Rune, you magnificent bastard, thank you so much for finding all this ;^;


You're quite welcome, glad I could help. I really hope it all works out for you. Best part about it is, it's just a video card away from being a pretty mid-high gaming system.



> I should be able to buy all the parts in about 3 weeks, I shall ofcourse let the internet know of my unbridled joy at having a half-decent PC. It might be a good reference for others who don't want to spend a fortune on hardware.


Well hey, if you have questions or need any advice on putting it all together or anything, feel free to contact me. If there's one thing I'm really good at, this is it.



> Now that would be tellin' ;3


Are you saying I should find out for myself?


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## Seekrit (Jul 20, 2013)

Runefox said:


> You're quite welcome, glad I could help. I really hope it all works out for you. Best part about it is, it's just a video card away from being a pretty mid-high gaming system.
> 
> Well hey, if you have questions or need any advice on putting it all together or anything, feel free to contact me. If there's one thing I'm really good at, this is it.



I was wondering about that actually. So somewhere down the line I can just buy a dedicated graphics card and have a beast of a machine? You can be sure I'll ask you for help, you've never let me down yet. Care to help me test its capabilities in some Steamy (hurr hurr) action?



Runefox said:


> Are you saying I should find out for myself?



Isn't that the best way? You learn so much more :3c


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## Kosdu (Jul 20, 2013)

I can't really help much seekrit, but I have some tips:


-Find a case that is easily useable, it will save you oh so much trouble, and is easily worth the 50 or so dollars.
-Use plenty of heat lube over the proccessor, it will save you lots of trouble.


Be careful and have fun!


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## Runefox (Jul 20, 2013)

Kosdu said:


> -Use plenty of heat lube over the proccessor, it will save you lots of trouble.





Kosdu said:


> -Use plenty of *heat lube* over the proccessor





Kosdu said:


> *heat lube*



I think I have a new favourite term for thermal grease. On a more serious note, you only need a small amount to cover up impurities in the metal; Too much actually acts as an insulator. In this case, the cooler has Arctic Silver MX4 pre-applied, so it should be a snap.



Seekrit said:


> I was wondering about that actually. So somewhere down the line I can just buy a dedicated graphics card and have a beast of a machine? You can be sure I'll ask you for help, you've never let me down yet. Care to help me test its capabilities in some Steamy (hurr hurr) action?


Yeah, that power supply should be able to handle just about anything short of a GTX TITAN you want to throw at it, and maybe even that would work, and the motherboard will handle it, too. The case _should_ be big enough to fit any card you want in it, but you should measure the clearance first just in case - Some cards have ridiculously long coolers. My GTX 680 barely fits in my case (Antec 900). The CPU will end up being the bottleneck in the future, but the A10-6800k isn't exactly slow, so there shouldn't be any problems. If you end up getting an AMD Radeon, you'll be able to Hybrid Crossfire with the integrated graphics for an extra boost, too.

Mmm, I'm always up for some Steamy action...



> Isn't that the best way? You learn so much more :3c


So true! I'll be sure to use plenty of heat lube. :3


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## Cain (Aug 1, 2013)

Whoa.

Have AMD and Intel been making hybrid GPU/CPUs for a while? I don't think I remember seeing them, ever.

Dane stop flirting with others or else i'm gonna go bitch mode


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## Runefox (Aug 1, 2013)

Cain said:


> Whoa.
> 
> Have AMD and Intel been making hybrid GPU/CPUs for a while? I don't think I remember seeing them, ever.



AMD has been making them for a while, since their "Fusion" project. It began in 2006 when they acquired ATI, and they released the first Llano APU in 2011. Intel actually released a GPU+CPU combo first with the dual core Westemere chips in 2010, but that was a low-power, low-performance GPU, as Intel has been known for until recently with Iris (and still has a stigma for, actually). AMD's chips have long had better performance overall, but the APU's cores lack dedicated floating point units; For every two cores, a single FPU is present. This limits game performance processor-wise, but reduces cost and TDP, in turn allowing for higher-performance graphics for the same power draw.




> Dane stop flirting with others or else i'm gonna go bitch mode


Pansexuals share the love with everyone they can get a 'rise' out of.


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 2, 2013)

Ya know, I've really wanted to test out Civ5 on my Llano A8-3870K.  It's not the most demanding game in the world but not light weight either but possibly a good application for a Llano/Fusion proc.  ...Though I also dunno how fun Civ5 would be on my Llano HTPC, with the screen wall mounted and sitting in my bed with a touchpad/wireless keyboard deal.


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## Lobar (Aug 3, 2013)

AshleyAshes said:


> Ya know, I've really wanted to test out Civ5 on my Llano A8-3870K.  It's not the most demanding game in the world but not light weight either but possibly a good application for a Llano/Fusion proc.  ...Though I also dunno how fun Civ5 would be on my Llano HTPC, with the screen wall mounted and sitting in my bed with a touchpad/wireless keyboard deal.



I've done Civ V in bed before, it still plays fine as long as you're not too far from the screen to read the text.  Might want a wireless mouse though.


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## Saga (Aug 7, 2013)

People on this thread know stuff about PC gaming
So i'm putting this question here

BAM
I was surprised at this price since it's big brother goes for $500 (which is my budget) but was discontinued.
I want to know if the specs on that PC are adequate to run Half-life 2 and heavier games like Fallout and Grand Theft Auto. I'm not super anal about graphics, I'll play on super low settings but I wont play at less than 30 FPS.
I figured I could overclock the processor to 2.75-3.00 if I really needed to.


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## Lobar (Aug 7, 2013)

Saga said:


> People on this thread know stuff about PC gaming
> So i'm putting this question here
> 
> BAM
> ...



Generally, a desktop is a much better choice for gaming.  Laptops have to fit everything into a much smaller package without overheating or draining the battery too quickly, and the end result is a _lot_ less relative bang for your buck.  Also, overclocking the processor won't get you far as typically the GPU is the bottleneck in laptop gaming and overheating is already going to be a problem.  And that's if the clock settings are unlocked in the first place, which they probably aren't.

That said, that laptop has a decent discrete GPU and those games are old enough that it should be able to handle them just fine.


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## Runefox (Aug 8, 2013)

Saga said:


> BAM
> I was surprised at this price since it's big brother goes for $500 (which is my budget) but was discontinued.
> I want to know if the specs on that PC are adequate to run Half-life 2 and heavier games like Fallout and Grand Theft Auto. I'm not super anal about graphics, I'll play on super low settings but I wont play at less than 30 FPS.
> I figured I could overclock the processor to 2.75-3.00 if I really needed to.



This thing is pretty ancient. Like, four years old ancient. Also discontinued; These units are used. I wouldn't hold out for any kind of overclocking, since laptops generally don't provide any functionality for that (for good reason; The cooling system is only designed to (barely) handle stock speeds). The processor is going to be the biggest killer, and the RAM isn't going to be easy to upgrade since it's running DDR2. The GeForce 9800 is a half decent GPU, but for what it's going to give you, it's not really worth it. Still, it'll handle Fallout and Half-Life 2, maybe a bit of GTA 4, but definitely not GTA 5.

This ASUS K55N would be a better fit; The Radeon 7640G it comes with is roughly on par performance-wise / _potentially _faster as it's far more modern, and the CPU will run circles around the Core 2 Duo (as most CPU's today will, even dual core CPU's at the same clock). Plus, it has 6GB of DDR3 RAM, a 1TB hard drive, has USB 3.0, is actually new, is thinner, is lighter, will probably run cooler, and is $449. The only thing it doesn't have on the one you linked is the 1680x1050 screen; It runs 1366x768. For gaming, this is actually a good thing performance-wise, and you're still doing better than consoles, which typically run sub-1280x720. You can use a higher resolution monitor if you prefer, as well, but this GPU (and the 9800M) probably won't handle 1080p gaming very well (though for older games like Half-Life 2 and Fallout? Sure).


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## Saga (Aug 8, 2013)

Runefox said:


> This ASUS K55N would be a better fit;


That is actually one of the machines I was considering
It would be nice to have a laptop for the mobility of it but I can get a powerful desktop in the same price range

Other ones I was considering 1 2
Doing this PC dealio is proving to be quite tedious :?
EDIT: I'm about a hair away from making my final decision on teh lenovo.
2.4 GHz Intel i3
4GB RAM
500GB HDD space
Intel HD 4000 gfx card
Two USB 2.0 ports and two USB 3.0 ports


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## Runefox (Aug 8, 2013)

The K55N is still a better performer than the Lenovo G780. The Lenovo's Core i3 is ever so slightly faster than the A8-4500M per-core, but is a dual core CPU; Even with hyperthreading (and knowing that the A8 isn't a "true" quad core CPU either but moreso than a dual core with hyperthreading), the A8-4500M comes out in multithreading, which is becoming more important. The Intel HD 4000 is a woefully inadequate IGP, and the Radeon HD 7640G will vastly outperform it; The HD 4000 struggles with the likes of Minecraft. In addition, the K55N has 50% more RAM than the G780 and twice the HDD space. The only real difference that puts the G780 on top is the screen size; Screen resolution (PPI) will effectively be about the same going up from 15.4" to 17". If those drawbacks and the $90 higher price tag are worth the extra inch and a half to you, by all means, the Lenovo will still be a good laptop, but I don't think it will handle those games very well. Half-Life yes, Fallout and GTA no.

The Acer isn't really any better than the Lenovo (slower/older CPU, actually), and is more expensive again.

The CyberPowerPC desktop would actually be less powerful graphics-wise than the K55N; A GeForce GT 520 is almost nothing - A Radeon HD 6520 would beat it. The CPU would be marginally faster, but that is the low end of the AMD FX series, and is actually quite similar in performance to the A8 (mid-high end APU). Realistically, the only thing that tower has that the K55N doesn't is 2 extra gigs of RAM (easily remedied) and flashy LED's. Also, CyberPowerPC (and in my experience, any brand with "power" in the name) is a cheapo brand that try to sell "gaming" computers that are held together with white glue and twine.

Seriously, the best bang-for-buck here is the K55N. It's got a faster GPU than both the CyberPowerPC and especially the Lenovo, the HDD is 50% larger than the Lenovo's, it's got 50% more RAM, it's lighter, it's thinner, it's cheaper than both by a $90 margin...


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## Saga (Aug 8, 2013)

Okay okay 
This is the last post I promise
I went with the HP Envy 15, picked out parts for it. My friend who's an XxHardcor3xX PC gamer recommended it, and I like HP's service so.
AMD quad-core A8-5550M accelerated
AMD Radeon HD 8750M + HD 8000 series dual gfx
6GB  DDR3 RAM
750GB 5400 RPM hard drive
Backlit keyboard for kewl factor and 'cause im a night owl
Some integrated mic
Comes out just over $630

It's a bit more than I could originally spend but I will be able to order it somewhere in September. Thanks for all the halp guise, I didnt really know anything about PC gaming when I began searching. Expect a rave thread in september 

<3 and what not


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## Runefox (Aug 8, 2013)

Ooh, the Envy does have quite a kick to it. These are nice laptops; The price difference is rather large all told, but the processor is much faster, as is the graphics. Beats Audio in its case refers to software enhancement; It actually does wonders for the built-in speakers, but if you have external speakers or headphones, your mileage may vary; You might prefer to have it on or off depending which sounds better. The built-in mic is also pretty good; It's actually an array in this model for noise cancelling. Overall, I'd say it's a better option if you can spring for it. The faster/newer CPU and GPU will have longer legs and should handle whatever you throw at it right now (at medium quality), and that's always worth it in the end. It's also decked out in only USB 3.0 ports (no 2.0), which is pretty awesome.

If you're going to configure it out of the factory from HP's website, you might want to spend the extra $40 for a 1080p screen; You'll get a *much* better quality picture out of it and that GPU should handle it fine. I'd also recommend the extra $20 to up the RAM to 8GB; That said, the 6GB will probably be plenty for now though, and you can easily upgrade later on. Together, that puts the price up to $689, or $669 without the RAM upgrade. If you need Bluetooth, it's worth paying the extra $15 for it; A dongle purchased afterwards will usually run you that and will take up a USB port in doing so. If not, don't bother. I wouldn't say that the upgrade to the A10-5750M would be worth the $80 though; The major advantage to the A10, a better graphics processor, would be lost with a dedicated graphics chip.

FYI: The $80 to max the RAM from the factory is currently less than buying 16GB of  RAM from Newegg or similar (~$130), so it's up to you which you'd rather do.  You won't have any issues with 6GB or 8GB now, however.

The next Envy up, the 15t-j000 Select Edition, would net you a faster CPU (Core i5-3230M) and GPU (GeForce GT 740M) for $799 as configured above (dedicated graphics, 1080p screen, backlit keyboard), plus it gives you the option of adding an mSSD cache drive (to increase overall and especially startup performance), but we're getting much higher over budget now.


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