# My 11 years experience on the furry "community.



## Zahur (Oct 13, 2019)

Considering that I'm 23 now I'm not yet that old, but I started my adventure in the fandom when I was quite young. 12 (or even less, that's the age I remember) adventuring on the internet.

So 11 years ago, fur affinity was a decent place, people were about quite friendly, I had the SFW filter and all, I like to respect the rules of a site and to be honest I never felt like I had the need to see anything else.

With the first friendships done (yay) I noticed however that some people were... quite sexually active, even knowing my IRL age didn't stop them from introducing me to erotica RPs and such. And you know how a curious child reacts to such things.
I still even remember their nicknames and all.
But anyway.
Continuing: Besides these episodes, most of the friends seemed... friendly, it felt good having so many people to talk to and I would even spend more than 6h at the PC just to chitchat with em.
A couple of years pass like that, never created any kind of harm or whatever, being quite the shy kid I would wait for other to PM me (if they wanted to chat that's it)
But I always noticed that pattern of people talking you for about 1-2-3 months a year if you were lucky and then dumping you as the time goes on.
It goes on until I was 16, there was the first time I was "brave enough" to restart the experience, new sona, curiosity made me remove the safe filter (damn you past me) and the quality of arts overall on the site went quite UP, but people became rather SHITTIER.
Harder to chat with people, more people just seeking for sex-driven rps. 
18-20 years old me did the same trying a new start redoing fursona and all but the same toxic community and even worse than it was worse before appeared.

So, right now the negatives experience I have encountered on the side have increased exponentially in the last years. And I think it will get just worse.

Examples of toxic behaviours I have encountered. (Not in chronological order).

-got denied of friendships just because I didn't buy enough commissions/ I wasn an artist (recent)
-12 years old me episode I've already written before
-instead of progressing there was a regression going from community to high school "popularity"-mentality
-" Time trial friendships" or disposable friendships (call them as you wish): a few months adventure.
-  



 pretty much this
- sex addicted everywhere (seriously go get some help, I understand being horny is a one-state, but if you always are, you do need help)
-drama makers/ attention whores (and It works apparently)
-faking mental illnesses ( I blame social media for it, it is nowadays a fashion having one, while there are people feeling really bad that have to take xanax to calm just a slightly bit or have panic attacks that try their best to fight it with psychological help)
-I could literally go on forever as more and more stuff pops In my mind as time passes 


I will probably take another break but I don't know if this time I'll come back, of this community I have really few happy memories and mostly got so toxic it comes with cancer included nowadays. 

Bye I guess.


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## _Ivory_ (Oct 13, 2019)

You don't imagine how much i feel you, honestly i was thinking of doing the same but i really am not sure yet. I grew with it and i like to have a fursona but at the same time i met an insane amount of toxic people and as time passes i just see more and more furries leaving the fandom because of this. I met lots of people that just disappeared after a couple of months too and i really don't get why stuff like this happens. It's horrible to see the conditions of the fandom nowadays.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Oct 13, 2019)

Koth is essentially the GradeAUnderA of the furry fandom. Both need to be heard but not taken to seriously.


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## Zahur (Oct 13, 2019)

Mr. Fox said:


> Koth is essentially the GradeAUnderA of the furry fandom. Both need to be heard but not taken to seriously.


If you think the opinion of a person doesn't matter with the argument of "him being X person" only, you will never be taken seriously.


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## Keefur (Oct 13, 2019)

Zahur said:


> Considering that I'm 23 now I'm not yet that old, but I started my adventure in the fandom when I was quite young. 12 (or even less, that's the age I remember) adventuring on the internet.
> 
> So 11 years ago, fur affinity was a decent place, people were about quite friendly, I had the SFW filter and all, I like to respect the rules of a site and to be honest I never felt like I had the need to see anything else.
> 
> ...


You are laying all of the baggage at the feet of the Fandom.  The Fandom is a very tolerant place compared to most fan based groups.  The Fandom is also one where the average age is about 23 to 26.  That is an age group where sexual drives are at their peak.  To say that Furries  don't think about or have sex would be a huge lie.  At that age, if you aren't in a relationship, then you pretty much are always thinking about how to get into one.  The difference is that since the Fandom is such a tolerant place, sex is discussed more often and more openly.  This is a good thing and a bad thing.  Sex is a natural biological function, but society imposes "rules" about social behavior when dealing with sex.  I will say that hitting on a minor definitely falls into the "bad thing" catagory.  A lot of the other things you address here I personally attribute to attitudes tolerated by society at large and not something that only occurs within the Fandom.  People everywhere want to be popular and want attention.  There's an old saying that "even bad attention is attention".  These are problems that permiate culture world wide.  I was at FangCon, and was talking to the hotel chief of security.  I asked him what he thought of our group and he said he loved us because we were so well behaved.  I asked him what was the worst group he had ever had to deal with, and without a second of hesitation, he told me that it was hairdressers.  He said all they wanted to do was get drunk and hook up.  So, in conclusion, you are throwing away the Fandom for issues that you will find everywhere else as well.  That's fine, if you want to isolate yourself from these things, but you are definitely denying yourself a lot of good life experiences as well.


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## _Ivory_ (Oct 13, 2019)

Keefur said:


> You are laying all of the baggage at the feet of the Fandom.  The Fandom is a very tolerant place compared to most fan based groups.  The Fandom is also one where the average age is about 23 to 26.  That is an age group where sexual drives are at their peak.  To say that Furries  don't think about or have sex would be a huge lie.  At that age, if you aren't in a relationship, then you pretty much are always thinking about how to get into one.  The difference is that since the Fandom is such a tolerant place, sex is discussed more often and more openly.  This is a good thing and a bad thing.  Sex is a natural biological function, but society imposes "rules" about social behavior when dealing with sex.  I will say that hitting on a minor definitely falls into the "bad thing" catagory.  A lot of the other things you address here I personally attribute to attitudes tolerated by society at large and not something that only occurs within the Fandom.  People everywhere want to be popular and want attention.  There's an old saying that "even bad attention is attention".  These are problems that permiate culture world wide.  I was at FangCon, and was talking to the hotel chief of security.  I asked him what he thought of our group and he said he loved us because we were so well behaved.  I asked him what was the worst group he had ever had to deal with, and without a second of hesitation, he told me that it was hairdressers.  He said all they wanted to do was get drunk and hook up.  So, in conclusion, you are throwing away the Fandom for issues that you will find everywhere else as well.  That's fine, if you want to isolate yourself from these things, but you are definitely denying yourself a lot of good life experiences as well.


You are right but I've been in the fandom for years and the good i found was probably 1% out of all the fandom. I don't want to be offensive or anything, im not an angel either but after years i'm starting to be a bit tired of finding always the same kinds of people. Honestly i dont think tat leaving the fandom means denying yourself a lot of nice things


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## Keefur (Oct 13, 2019)

_Ivory_ said:


> You are right but I've been in the fandom for years and the good i found was probably 1% out of all the fandom. I don't want to be offensive or anything, im not an angel either but after years i'm starting to be a bit tired of finding always the same kinds of people. Honestly i dont think tat leaving the fandom means denying yourself a lot of nice things


There are good and bad people wherever you go.  No matter where you are, you have to filter out the bad to find the good.  The Fandom, in my experience, is filled with good, dynamic, people.  I can see finding good people being more of a challenge for younger Furs.  I'm an old greymuzzle, so I don't have to deal with so much of the sexual aspect of things the Fandom can challenge individuals with though.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

-instead of progressing there was a regression going from community to high school "popularity"-mentality
-" Time trial friendships" or disposable friendships (callthem as you wish): a few months adventure.

I have to agree on these two points from my experience, it just seems impossible to have people genuinely become interested in you unless they see something useful to them which can be taken from such interactions like role-playing, art commissions, random chit chat on a specific topic they are strongly interested on and think you can make a suitable partner for providing entertaining feedback but only if its something they care about...etc, etc. This is certainly not exclusive to this community but there surely seems to be a lot of personal interest driven mentalities around the online space and popularity is often looked at as a validation pedestal for opinions and ideas so under similar circumstances those with a bigger name gather more agreement, support and following purely out of general status.


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## _Ivory_ (Oct 13, 2019)

Keefur said:


> There are good and bad people wherever you go.  No matter where you are, you have to filter out the bad to find the good.  The Fandom, in my experience, is filled with good, dynamic, people.  I can see finding good people being more of a challenge for younger Furs.  I'm an old greymuzzle, so I don't have to deal with so much of the sexual aspect of things the Fandom can challenge individuals with though.


finding a good person should't be hard for anyone, if fidning a good person is hrd it means taht the fandom has a problem


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## _Ivory_ (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> -instead of progressing there was a regression going from community to high school "popularity"-mentality
> -" Time trial friendships" or disposable friendships (callthem as you wish): a few months adventure.
> 
> I have to agree on these two points from my experience, it just seems impossible to have people genuinely become interested in you unless they see something useful to them which can be taken from such interactions like role-playing, art commissions, random chit chat on a specific topic they are strongly interested on and think you can make a suitable partner for providing entertaining feedback but only if its something they care about...etc, etc. This is certainly not exclusive to this community but there surely seems to be a lot of personal interest driven mentalities around the online space and popularity is often looked at as a validation pedestal for opinions and ideas so under similar circumstances those with a bigger name gather more agreement, support and following purely out of general status.


I strongly agree, i met the same kinds of people and 90% of teh freidns only last a couple of months before starting to be absent and cold


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 13, 2019)

You're free to leave if you don't feel the furry fandom is a positive place for you to be. But I don't think your assessment is accurate or fair - at most you've been unlucky with what circles you've ended up in.

And I say that as someone who has _major_ trust issues with furries I don't already know due to one specific bad experience. 



Zahur said:


> drama makers/ attention whores (and It works apparently)


Drama llamas have been a staple of furry fandom practically as long as I can remember (I entered furry fandom about 20 years ago). The community has, somewhat, gotten more... concentrated? Like, back when I was a wee babby furry, it was spread out across a number of LiveJournal communities, private websites like The Chakat's Den (which is one of the few I think are still around), Furcadia (with a number of different dreams people called home), and so on. Art sites didn't all have comment fields. These days a relatively small number of websites (like 3-4 gallery sites) sop up practically all of the community. That also means (my hypothesis; I could be wrong here) drama gets more visible/more likely to spread.

That said, holy fuck do other communities have their drama, too. 



Zahur said:


> got denied of friendships just because I didn't buy enough commissions/ I wasn an artist (recent)


I think that is a "shitty person" (the person rejecting you, not you) problem, not a fandom problem, if that was the sole reason. Person I know with the largest furry social circle is my boyfriend, who doesn't draw, only buys custom art very rarely (I can think of one or two pieces in the years I've known him), and in general doesn't play to that side of the fandom. He barely asks _me_ for art, even knowing I'm happy to draw for him.



Zahur said:


> instead of progressing there was a regression going from community to high school "popularity"-mentality


That's partially a "social circles" problem, and partially a "condensed community" problem. You'll always have some people who garner popularity in a group, and with the community more condensed, the group they garner popularity in gets larger. 



Zahur said:


> faking mental illnesses ( I blame social media for it, it is nowadays a fashion having one, while there are people feeling really bad that have to take xanax to calm just a slightly bit or have panic attacks that try their best to fight it with psychological help)


While I generally think self-diagnosing is a bad idea in most cases (you can suspect you've got a condition and look into coping techniques for that condition regardless of whether you're formally diagnosed, of course, but you should seek a professional diagnosis if at all possible), the number of people outright _faking_ mental illness I don't think is high enough to warrant spending much mental energy. We also live in a social environment that provokes the development of mental illness, which will contribute to the number of people you see around you with mental health issues. 

Calling it a "fashion" to have a mental health disorder feels a lot like the whole "transtrenders" narrative to me - it risks making people who need help feel like their experiences don't warrant the attention of a professional. That's already something that's a problem with depression and anxiety disorders, and not seeking help _kills_. Like... I've been on antidepressants for something like a decade at this point. I have as-needed benzos (not Xanax) for acute anxiety, and mood stabilizes for bipolar disorder. I also suspect I have a couple more diagnoses that should be made. My brain chemistry is a fucking mess. And I still feel like I'm being fed "you don't have it so bad" when people start talking about mental illness being overdiagnosed and psychoactive medication being overprescribed these days.

I think your heart is probably in the right place, just telling you that the way you put this sentiment forward is something that can be hurtful and even harmful. I don't deal with frequent panic attacks and take my benzos maybe a few times a month. That doesn't make my mental health issues less real or less crippling.



Zahur said:


> "Time trial friendships" or disposable friendships (call them as you wish): a few months adventure.


I'm going to be a bit harsh here: If you leave it to others to always contact you first, you shouldn't feel surprised when they give up after a while.
I get it. I hate losing friends. I've largely lost touch with people I felt close to, and it sucks. But it's also a reality that not all friendships will last beyond the honeymoon phase, that people grow and change, and that if people feel like they have to put in more effort than you do, they'll often just call it a lost cause.


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## Keefur (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> -instead of progressing there was a regression going from community to high school "popularity"-mentality
> -" Time trial friendships" or disposable friendships (callthem as you wish): a few months adventure.
> 
> I have to agree on these two points from my experience, it just seems impossible to have people genuinely become interested in you unless they see something useful to them which can be taken from such interactions like role-playing, art commissions, random chit chat on a specific topic they are strongly interested on and think you can make a suitable partner for providing entertaining feedback but only if its something they care about...etc, etc. This is certainly not exclusive to this community but there surely seems to be a lot of personal interest driven mentalities around the online space and popularity is often looked at as a validation pedestal for opinions and ideas so under similar circumstances those with a bigger name gather more agreement, support and following purely out of general status.



This mentality is no different outside the Fandom is my point.  Every celebrity in the world has their groupies.



_Ivory_ said:


> finding a good person should't be hard for anyone, if fidning a good person is hrd it means taht the fandom has a problem





_Ivory_ said:


> I strongly agree, i met the same kinds of people and 90% of teh freidns only last a couple of months before starting to be absent and cold



Being online is actually an evolving culture.  Unfortunately, it is also a "throwaway" culture where there are no consequences for discarding a "friend" because there is always the next one.  Being online gains you access to thousands of potential friends, so it is sometimes viewed as easier to discard a friend then put in the effort to cultivate a relationship that has gotten stale.  Again, this is not something endemic to just the Fandom, so the Fandom should not be blamed as being the root cause.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

There is of course some natural biased perspective on my part when it comes to stating how much of an outcast I feel in this community mainly due to the fact I'm asexual and so the whole sexuality based and erotic side of the fandom does not interest me whatsoever which takes a huge chunk of my available means for intricate engagement within the fandom. Same can be said about not having a fursona, I mean, it might not be obligatory to have one in order to be considered a furry but it clearly as water affects your ability to have meaningful interactions with those who have them and are passionate about the character within. 

So in all honesty, I'm really not in a good position to make expansive friendships around here.


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## Keefur (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> There is of course some natural biased perspective on my part when it comes to stating how much of an outcast I feel in this community mainly due to the fact I'm asexual and so the whole sexuality based and erotic side of the fandom does not interest me whatsoever which takes a huge chunk of my available means for intricate engagement within the fandom. Same can be said about not having a fursona, I mean, it might not be obligatory to have one in order to be considered a furry but it clearly as water affects your ability to have meaningful interactions with those who have them and are passionate about the character within.
> 
> So in all honesty, I'm really not in a good position to make expansive friendships around here.


I don't base Furry friendships on whether or not a Furry has a fursona.  I know that there are, for examples, several Furs on the forums who do not have fursonas and do just fine popularity wise.  Being asexual will help screen out a lot of the "horn dogs", but do you really want to cultivate friendships based on sex?  Your pool of possible friends may be smaller, but in my opinion, of better quality.


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## Keefur (Oct 13, 2019)

I'm off to bed now.  Night y'all.


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## _Ivory_ (Oct 13, 2019)

Keefur said:


> I'm off to bed now.  Night y'all.


good night


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

I can't blame the people on this fandom for feeling more attracted and interested towards those who fulfill the profile of what being a furry is commonly accepted and regarded as much more indepthly than I do, that's to be expected. What truly bothers me is not being able to convey a more standardized character while genuinely enjoying it, I've tried before and didn't mattered if others suddenly became more responsive towards me or not, I simply can't feel comfortable and satisfied when adopting an approach I don't genuinely identify myself with regardless of how good of an outcome it might produce.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

Keefur said:


> I don't base Furry friendships on whether or not a Furry has a fursona.  I know that there are, for examples, several Furs on the forums who do not have fursonas and do just fine popularity wise.  Being asexual will help screen out a lot of the "horn dogs", but do you really want to cultivate friendships based on sex?  Your pool of possible friends may be smaller, but in my opinion, of better quality.


I agree and that's definitely what I'm looking for, quality over quantity always. Its just that finding such quality becomes a lot harder when lacking certain appealing elements on a social paradigm spectrum. Good night.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Oct 13, 2019)

I'm a bit stunned. Something you made out to be a huge problem for you, people being "driven by sex" which keep on bothering you, never happened to me. During my arguably short time in this fandom I ran into a guy who was too open about his sexual things, but even that never got in the way of having a normal chat. 
I dunno... How do these things happen to people that they turn into such big problems? :'D


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

I wasn't going to reply to this, since I touched on some of these issues before in other posts, but, heck it.
This is an important ongoing fandom issue, and it's always good to talk about your feelings. 

I was also talked to by adult furries as a child in a sexual manner online...  A lot. I wasn't even on FA or anything. Just regular chatrooms or online games.
I'm pretty sure every adult male who got sexually invasive with me was in the furry fandom to some capacity. They all had fursonas or furry OCs they RP'd with.
Despite never having seen my face or me even having a fursona, they'd push me to RP or read sexual fanfics, etc. _knowing full well I was around 11 (and this ended around 15)._
They always pushed me to make male "uke" OCs to RP with.
There is a huge problem with pedophilia and 'MAP acceptance' in online fandom in general. Honestly, it terrifies me. It's getting worse every year.
Now I'm a bad person and I'm in the wrong for saying pedophiles are bad? You've got to be kidding me... I'm worried I'll get 'hate' just for saying that.

I have a very long list of bad experiences with furries. Most of them prior to me joining the fandom.
Since I've joined the fandom I've had a lot of people not respecting the word "no" and an ever-growing blocklist.
It often feels like I'm just expected to be into polyamory or flirtatious because I'm in the furry fandom, when in reality I just want to be with my husband alone.
I also feel like the majority of pretty decent+ SFW art goes unnoticed due to the heavy flooding of sexual-charged images and colorful niche fetishes being favored.
So, when I hear people calling furries 'degenerates and perverts', I feel like I can't really debate them on that? Like yeah, there's a LOT of deviant stuff here.

Now, don't get me wrong. I can appreciate and understand NSFW art, it happens and that's totally fine. 
But like... If you go on FA and go by popularity...
If you leave NSFW viewable, it's all you'll be seeing. *And when you turn SFW on, you have no idea who you're interacting with.*
I'll be browsing and find some really cute SFW stuff, I'll check out their gallery and then I get this 'itch'. 
"What if they're into some weird stuff..."
So I'll turn SFW off and there it is. Some stuff I find 'objectively weird', or makes me _extremely uncomfortable._
There's absolutely nothing wrong with adults enjoying adult content, _I just feel like it's so shoved in your face in this fandom. _

I won't even get into the topic of people faking mental illnesses, but let me just leave it at this; I agree with you.
Tumblr was my online home away from home for many, many years. I've seen too much.



I have a lot of positive feelings about the fandom, but also a lot of negative ones. 
It's a mixed bag, but I try to just cut people out of my life ASAP if things get weird or I become uncomfortable. It's not worth the trouble or wasted time to be upset online.
Focus on your good friendships and keep talking to people who make you happy. Need more friends? Keep trying!

If you're looking for a friend whose more casually into the fandom, with no ulterior motive, feel free to inbox me.  
That goes for anyone! I love to chat and talk about the fandom and its history.


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## 1234554321 (Oct 13, 2019)

Zahur said:


> Considering that I'm 23 now I'm not yet that old, but I started my adventure in the fandom when I was quite young. 12 (or even less, that's the age I remember) adventuring on the internet.
> 
> So 11 years ago, fur affinity was a decent place, people were about quite friendly, I had the SFW filter and all, I like to respect the rules of a site and to be honest I never felt like I had the need to see anything else.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more


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## Fallowfox (Oct 13, 2019)

Oh no, Kothorix_ again_? 
He's an odd one to talk about condemning bad behaviours, considering he made youtube video essays defending paedophilia.

Furries leaving the fandom is kinda like Brexit. They threaten to leave, they're definitely leaving, they're going any day now, you'll miss them when they're gone. They're still here but they really do mean business about leaving.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

puddinsticks said:


> I wasn't going to reply to this, since I touched on some of these issues before in other posts, but, heck it.
> This is an important ongoing fandom issue, and it's always good to talk about your feelings.
> 
> I was also talked to by adult furries as a child in a sexual manner online...  A lot. I wasn't even on FA or anything. Just regular chatrooms or online games.
> ...


What you said about the NSFW and fetish art is spot on, regardless of the characters and artstyle involved in it, this specific artistic niche always gets the most relevance and attention out of all the furry content in this community. If you combine great talent for art with a passion for erotic and/or kinky content then you'll most certainly gain a good following within the fandom. 

I personally don't draw any fetish content, just random silly shenanigans and since I'm far from being a great artist well, I feel like its not even worth bothering to share my work around because most likely people won't care about it.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> Oh no, Kothorix_ again_?
> He's an odd one to talk about condemning bad behaviours, considering he made youtube video essays defending paedophilia.
> 
> Furries leaving the fandom is kinda like Brexit. They threaten to leave, they're definitely leaving, they're going any day now, you'll miss them when they're gone. They're still here but they really do mean business about leaving.


I've thought about leaving the fandom a few times, not because of what someone did or said to me but due to feeling like no matter how hard I tried, it would be impossible to fit in. I stand here now hoping that somehow this can be once and for all contradicted one day.


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> What you said about ...



You know what they say, sex sells. Sex is natural and with it comes a lot of positive chemical reactions in the brain, etc. etc. etc.
It just so happens that sexually themed art is a very popular and successful selling point and is a sure-fire way to gain a decent following online.
Combine that with how open and 'accepting' the furry fandom is and, well, here we are. lol


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Oct 13, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> Oh no, Kothorix_ again_?
> He's an odd one to talk about condemning bad behaviours, considering he made youtube video essays defending paedophilia.


Orange you glad he's gone?



SLB-Portu23 said:


> What you said about the NSFW and fetish art is spot on, regardless of the characters and artstyle involved in it, this specific artistic niche always gets the most relevance and attention out of all the furry content in this community. If you combine great talent for art with a passion for erotic and/or kinky content then you'll most certainly gain a good following within the fandom.
> 
> I personally don't draw any fetish content, just random silly shenanigans and since I'm far from being a great artist well, I feel like its not even worth bothering to share my work around because most likely people won't care about it.


"Sex sells."
In most cases artists do commissions, and people want lewds, so they make lewds.

If you wanna draw NSFW or SFW art, you do you. 
But to say people won't care about your art isn't all accurate, I don't even search FA tbh so I'd never find any art, I'd recommend that if you wanna show people your art, something like posting in an art section on discord for example will have peeps.
Yet I see peeps who make SFW art and I smile and enjoy it.



SLB-Portu23 said:


> I've thought about leaving the fandom a few times, not because of what someone did or said to me but due to feeling like no matter how hard I tried, it would be impossible to fit in. I stand here now hoping that somehow this can be once and for all contradicted one day.


Get out of the highschool mentality, don't think you have to fit in. You're free in this fandom, just like how nobody will yell at people for being gay. All peeps are welcome, furs, scales, humans and others. : P


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

Without wanting to condemn anyone's personal tastes over art I must say that some of the stuff I've came across with, man...it hits your eyes like a hand full of scorching sand...


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## ConorHyena (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> Without wanting to condemn anyone's personal tastes over art I must say that some of the stuff I've came across with, man...it hits your eyes like a hand full of scorching sand...



There's art that I like and there's art I don't like. I don't look at what I don't like.

Afaik there's been figures, I can't be assed to look them up right now, but it was around ~30% of all art is NSFW on FA.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4 said:


> Orange you glad he's gone?
> 
> 
> "Sex sells."
> ...


I don't have an highschool mentality whatsoever, by fitting in, I don't mean gaining popularity, just being able to enjoy myself in the company of another person while having a meaningful interactive experience which can form a bond that lasts for more than a couple hours and then expires from existence like it never mean't anyhing.

I appreciate the Discord suggestion, really do but there's no way I'm going back there after the amount of bad experiences that place provide me with. Need to preserve what's left of my sanity and self esteem.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> There's art that I like and there's art I don't like. I don't look at what I don't like.
> 
> Afaik there's been figures, I can't be assed to look them up right now, but it was around ~30% of all art is NSFW on FA.


You don't have to actively search for it to be met with such art at times, that's the problem. For example, if I search for "leopard" on FA, a whole different plethora of results will come up which fit into several distinct categories. Perhaps I should just turn on the SFW filter for good. I haven't been doing a lot of art searching lately anyway.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 13, 2019)

By the way @puddinsticks sorry if we other furries make you feel uncomfortable at all ever. Your art is wonderful though so I think we're all glad to have you around.

I'm pretty horrified by some of the things you've said you experienced. If you know any of these users are still active please file reports against them.


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## ConorHyena (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> You don't have to actively search for it to be met with such art at times, that's the problem. For example, if I search for "leopard" on FA, a whole different plethora of results will come up which fit into several distinct categories. Perhaps I should just turn on the SFW filter for good. I haven't been doing a lot of art searching lately anyway.



If you want SFW content only, either turn on the SFW filter or specify the search criteria on FA to search just for general stuff.


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> I don't have an highschool mentality whatsoever, by fitting in, I don't mean gaining popularity, just being able to enjoy myself in the company of another person while having a meaningful interactive experience which can form a bond that lasts for more than a couple hours and then expires from existence like it never mean't anyhing.
> 
> I appreciate the Discord suggestion, really do but there's no way I'm going back there after the amount of bad experiences that place provide me with. Need to preserve what's left of my sanity and self esteem.


I just meant it as in "Don't force yourself to suit someone's/everyone's need" it's tiring and isn't fun...
Hmm, if you want to enjoy yourself in the company of another person, all I can say is just be you. If you want a bond, I find that posting for example in the same thread often helps to befriend peeps in it who are regulars, whenever it's LPW(LastPost) or PvP(PreyVPred).

Hmm, I would say "Why not just find one hosted by the peeps here?" But if you don't want to use discord, shouldn't force you.



SLB-Portu23 said:


> You don't have to actively search for it to be met with such art at times, that's the problem. For example, if I search for "leopard" on FA, a whole different plethora of results will come up which fit into several distinct categories. Perhaps I should just turn on the SFW filter for good. I haven't been doing a lot of art searching lately anyway.


You can go into advanced and disable adult and mature, but leave general.
But yeah sometimes people can't seem to tag, or heck when I searched bear it just came up with a vore sound file... Pretty sure a lot of peeps wouldn't wanna see nor hear that. ' - '
(even with SFW the vore thing is still there... I don't know about you but I still don't consider it SFW.)


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> By the way @puddinsticks sorry if ...



As an adult, I know it exists, and I respect NSFW content. NSFW art is still art, and there are plenty of NSFW artists with incredible work.
On the flip side of things, a lot of artists are made out to be jokes _because _they draw NSFW. 

When it comes to my personal feelings on the subject, it's very muddy and grey.
My main issues come from those in the fandom who subject everyone to their sexually charged chats and fantasies without being invited to do so.
And it seems to happen a lot, in my experience.  
Artists and commissioners who partake in their NSFW subjects are a-okay in my book if no one is being hurt or made uncomfortable.  Absolutely fine!

I think something that could be done to help people who don't feel comfortable with NSFW content 
is the ability to filter out accounts with a certain threshold / percentage of NSFW in their galleries? That seems very daunting, though.


Thank you for the words of encouragement, that's very kind of you and makes my day that much better.  
I'm happy to be here, overall. Especially here in the forums, so many nice people here to talk to.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

Smexy Likeok4 said:


> I just meant it as in "Don't force yourself to suit someone's/everyone's need" it's tiring and isn't fun...
> Hmm, if you want to enjoy yourself in the company of another person, all I can say is just be you. If you want a bond, I find that posting for example in the same thread often helps to befriend peeps in it who are regulars, whenever it's LPW(LastPost) or PvP(PreyVPred).
> 
> Hmm, I would say "Why not just find one hosted by the peeps here?" But if you don't want to use discord, shouldn't force you.
> ...


Thank you for your thoughtful and honest advice, I'm definitely going to stay loyal to who I truly am deep inside and not force things out under any circumstances, as appealing as they might seem.

If good things are meant to come, they should happen naturally, on both sides when it comes to building personal relationships.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 13, 2019)

puddinsticks said:


> As an adult, I know it exists, and I respect NSFW content. NSFW art is still art, and there are plenty of NSFW artists with incredible work.
> On the flip side of things, a lot of artists are made out to be jokes _because _they draw NSFW.
> 
> When it comes to my personal feelings on the subject, it's very muddy and grey.
> ...



So if you use Twitter you can interact solely with accounts that do not have themselves labelled as containing 'sensitive' content.


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> So if you use Twitter you can interact solely with accounts that do not have themselves labelled as containing 'sensitive' content.



I do have a Twitter account set up for my professional/personal work, actually!
Don't use it that much as I'm not terribly big on Twitter's setup, sadly.
I really do enjoy that feature though and wish more sites used something like it. 

Definitely worth recommending to anyone reading this thread who hasn't looking into Twitter yet for furry fandom content, 
absolutely a great idea to bring it up.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 13, 2019)

puddinsticks said:


> I do have a Twitter account set up for my professional/personal work, actually!
> Don't use it that much as I'm not terribly big on Twitter's setup, sadly.
> I really do enjoy that feature though and wish more sites used something like it.
> 
> ...



I view twitter's system as quite flawed personally. If you want to upload something cheeky, but prevent teenage viewers from seeing it, there's no option to do that unless you make another account and label all of its content as 'sensitive'- and I feel twitter doesn't really police age locks effectively.


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> I view twitter's system as quite flawed personally. If you want to upload something cheeky, but prevent teenage viewers from seeing it, there's no option to do that unless you make another account and label all of its content as 'sensitive'- and I feel twitter doesn't really police age locks effectively.



I think trying to keep it separate is better than nothing.
Not really sure how else you can go about keeping people who don't want NSFW or something risque at all out.
(This is why some people are running around on Twitter with 2+ accounts though, lol)
I think it's for the best though, as some people can get into some serious trouble if they knowingly interact with minors and allow them to see adult content.

It's... It's hard to figure out. That's fur sure. 
I'm not a website manager and I never want to be one, and this is one of the many reasons why.
Stuff always sounds better and easier to manage on paper. Actually executing it is an entirely different story...
I don't think there's any fool-proof way to make sure everyone is happy and in the end we can only police ourselves.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 13, 2019)

puddinsticks said:


> I think trying to keep it separate is better than nothing.
> Not really sure how else you can go about keeping people who don't want NSFW or something risque at all out.
> (This is why some people are running around on Twitter with 2+ accounts though, lol)
> I think it's for the best though, as some people can get into some serious trouble if they knowingly interact with minors and allow them to see adult content.
> ...



It's important to remember that Twitter is just an engine to snoop on your information, so that companies can manipulate you into buying things you don't want or need, anyway. Their raison d'etre isn't to provide a safe or stimulating community; it's to make money, and they'll always do the bare minimum that is required of them. 

You're right that it's difficult to manage websites with both standard and saucy content, because different users may have very specific requirements, which would demand entirely different website architectures and you can't make everybody happy.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

Trying to make everyone happy is like trying to open a footwear business in most of the typical anthropomorphic character worlds created by folks on this fandom...its utterly pointless and you either lose money, on the presented figurative scenario or patience on the real world environment.


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## MaetheDragon (Oct 13, 2019)

I’m reading through all of this, and I have to say, I’m with @ClumsyWitch on this one. I’ve had nothing but positive experiences in this fandom so far! Even sexual things, they were never driven too far for me. Though, I have no doubt that all the negative things people experienced here are true. I guess I’m lucky in this regard.

I’ve met many amazing friends that I love to talk to, though some of them do have their quirks. I insert myself into political conversations sometimes, but I never come out of them feeling worse for wear. These conversations happen, and on the internet, they’re largely inconsequential to me, though I do learn a thing or two from time to time.

Overall, I just haven’t experienced any of these horrible things yet. I hope I don’t, but you never know.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Oct 13, 2019)

Zahur said:


> If you think the opinion of a person doesn't matter with the argument of "him being X person" only, you will never be taken seriously.


You misunderstand. While some of Koths arguments do hold merit, he is generalising quite a lot too. I share many of his sentiments, have done for a few years now. In fact up until recently I was planning on giving up on the fandom myself, but was convinced to stay.

If not for any other reason, stay for those that still want you to be around. No one is saying that you have to be an active member of the fandom, but don't let all the negative aspects of it discourage you from enjoying the parts you do like at the same time.


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## Zahur (Oct 13, 2019)

ClumsyWitch said:


> I'm a bit stunned. Something you made out to be a huge problem for you, people being "driven by sex" which keep on bothering you, never happened to me. During my arguably short time in this fandom I ran into a guy who was too open about his sexual things, but even that never got in the way of having a normal chat.
> I dunno... How do these things happen to people that they turn into such big problems? :'D


You misunderstood, being horny is a thing, living your life to fuck /being fucked is a bit creepy and you should get some help.
Especially when coercing a 12 years old into it


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## Deleted member 132067 (Oct 13, 2019)

Zahur said:


> You misunderstood, being horny is a thing, living your life to fuck /being fucked is a bit creepy and you should get some help.
> Especially when coercing a 12 years old into it


Sounds like I understood it absolutely perfect, I never ran into such people and still wonder how someone can do so enough to have it turn into a problem o:
Not that I am in any way denying that those people exist, as well as that they're pretty creepy.


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## Simo (Oct 13, 2019)

Why do people who say they've left the fandom feel the need to prattle on about it at such great length?

"Live or die but don't poison everything' as Anne Sexton might put it. 

All these cookie cutter threads deriding the fandom and lectures on leaving grow wearisome.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 13, 2019)

Zahur said:


> He didn't defend paedophilia, he explained simply it is a mental illness and as such, it should be treated accordingly together with jail years.
> 
> Anyway, when you don't have anything smart to say or inherent to the topic you better shut up.



I don't feel there's a need for the aggression here. Suffice to say that Kothorix has a worrying precedent of mixing what reasonable opinions he does have in with some _rather bad_ ideas or poor choices which we don't need to go into in detail here! x3

I would not recommend allowing yourself to feel bad or depressed over the content in his videos; there are lots of furries here who I hope you can have a positive experience with.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

The people who write lectures about leaving the fandom most likely make no intentions of doing so. Might be better not to generalise too much just for the sake of avoiding making people feel like they're part of something they have nothing to do with but for those who were unfortunate enough to endure some pretty bad experiences, there should be a margin of acceptance and tolerance towards any possible grudge on the fandom they might hold and not be instantly taken as a personal insult, depending on the tone and wording these people use obviously. 

Don't want to believe anyone comes to this forum as a furry just to unreasonably bash on the fandom over and over again with the single intention of making it look terrible from all sides.


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## The Grey (Oct 13, 2019)

As much as they like to pretend otherwise furries are only human, and subject to the same flaws as the rest of our species. The issues raised in this thread are partially the result of the shallow nature of modern internet culture, and partially the result of the hyper sexualised side of the fandom that people can fall into. That can easily be avoided but human nature can't be. Predators and undesirables exist in all walks of life.

The people that come to the fandom do so first and foremost because of the artwork and the self expression that comes through that. As such, while they may complain about the negative people that also call themselves furries they won't leave if they still find worth in the anthropomorphic medium, as the OP obviously does.

Simply show some restraint and discretion with who you chose to interact with based on the lessons you've learned, and the social side of the fandom will prove far more rewarding.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 13, 2019)

The vast complexity of human nature cannot be surpressed or changed regardless of what we identify ourselves as or with. No matter how much one indulges on fantasy, the firm layer of reality can never be broken unless we find ourselves bedridden in a coma and there is no specific issue or scenario attributed to a certain filament of human society which is entirely exclusive to it.


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## Keefur (Oct 13, 2019)

puddinsticks said:


> You know what they say, sex sells. Sex is natural and with it comes a lot of positive chemical reactions in the brain, etc. etc. etc.
> It just so happens that sexually themed art is a very popular and successful selling point and is a sure-fire way to gain a decent following online.
> Combine that with how open and 'accepting' the furry fandom is and, well, here we are. lol


Pedos are never OK.  I'm sorry you had to deal with that.  The Fandom is not, however a legitimate organization in that it has no actual structure or hierarchy.  You can't just "kick someone out" if they behave badly, and sometimes that is unfortunate.


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## LeFay (Oct 13, 2019)

And here I thought I was the only one who saw this going on in the fandom. I started myself when I was about 14 or 15.

Much of the fandom has become exceptionally superficial basing peoples worth in the community on things like art, characters and suits.

I've been solicited a few times by minors for nsfw rps and even viewing some profiles here, the conduct of some members has greatly disappointed me.

I've even met older members who have been told they are too old for this fandom or have been treated poorly by other members due to the superficial reasons above.

If your character isn't cute no one likes you, if you dont have a suit you are invisible and if you don't have art then are you really even a part of this community?

When I was a kid it was very easy to make friends, rp or just share general interests but now a lot of what I've seen are pity parties, far too many people treating their characters as legitimate identities and people having break downs in social settings along with a high amount of drama.

I still love this community and even with the overwhelming amout of negative experiences I've had in it in the last few months I'm not leaving it because I still believe in the good with this fandom and it brings me a great deal of happiness but every word of OC is accurate and I'm greatly disappointed.

I love the amount of freedom this fandom gives you and the artwork makes me feel incredibly happy and I mean I'm not telling anyone how to live, your experiences maybe different but things looked a lot better during those 5 years of lurking.


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## Thrashy (Oct 13, 2019)

I myself had a good start in the fandom and I've really discovered a creative side on me, that I wasn't aware of before. 
Also the people I've met were nice and I've had a lot of good chats. Especially at a local furry radio station which has an online chat. 

However, I have to say, that I do not use discord and haven't met any furs in real life (I'm not ready for that yet ^^ ). And as someone that is not into nsfw stuff, I do not really stay long at the FA startpage, even with all filters on. 
I'm mainly here at FAF, at a German Forum and sometimes in the radio chat.
Since I've joined at the age of 23, I of course never encountered pedos before. I feel very sorry for those who had, and I stay at my opinion, that some actions are not OK, even in an open-minded community. 

That being said, I found a new hobby here on which I can try my creative side. I'll stay


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## Zahur (Oct 13, 2019)

People that don't (or better don't want to) understand the difference between taking a break and leaving is absurdly high.
As well as the people that have to write something non inherent to the topic just to grab attention.
If you never-ever had a negative experience you probably are one of these careless people I'm talking about in my thread or you just chat/hang with furries that are close to you or you are new to the fandom.
I don't see any other options.


It is true this community can brings you joy, but the toxicity and cancer you get back is trice it.

Plus a thing I forgot to add to the points:
- this is now a pay 2 stay community.
famous artists get paid more than medics/nurses considered the hours they put in their job and this is utterly disgusting
Oh you don't have arts/good arts? Too bad we can't be friend kek


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## Azrion/Zhalo (Oct 13, 2019)

I’ll put my 2, maybe 3 cents in here

The porn addiction is this fandom is fucking unreal. It feels like at least half or more of this fandom revolves around porn, and the more porn you have of your character being a slut, the more popular you are because boners are everything around here.


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## 1234554321 (Oct 13, 2019)

Suuuuure, there are decent furries out there, but you'll have as much luck finding them as finding water in a desert. Daring to talk to anyone is the equivalent of walking in a minefield, so better stick to just fapping to the porn: that's literally all this tumoral growth of a fandom is good for


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## AppleButt (Oct 13, 2019)

puddinsticks said:


> My main issues come from those in the fandom who subject everyone to their sexually charged chats and fantasies without being invited to do so.



This is why I quit using Furry Amino, also because the user base is pretty young.  

I’m 26 years old, and a lot of kids around 13+ would start sending NSFW when not invited to do so.  I’d have to nope the fuck out of chats cause of it.  I noticed it started to be fairly common, so I just left it.

That’s why if you’re 21+ I do not recommend furry amino.


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## LeFay (Oct 13, 2019)

AppleButt said:


> This is why I quit using Furry Amino, also because the user base is pretty young.
> 
> I’m 26 years old, and a lot of kids around 13+ would start sending NSFW when not invited to do so.  I’d have to nope the fuck out of chats cause of it.  I noticed it started to be fairly common, so I just left it.
> 
> That’s why if you’re 21+ I do not recommend furry amino.



Not gonna lie, I have heard many terrible things about furry amino, and a part of me really wants to go over there and cause some chaos.

I suppose we can take a note from them on how not to conduct yourself in the fandom.

But its not just kids that do this stuff, I've seen dudes as old as 40 do this stuff but the bulk seems to come from members of our age group or so I've noticed.


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## foussiremix (Oct 13, 2019)

LeFay said:


> Not gonna lie, I have heard many terrible things about furry amino, and a part of me really wants to go over there and cause some chaos.
> 
> I suppose we can take a note from them on how not to conduct yourself in the fandom.
> 
> But its not just kids that do this stuff, I've seen dudes as old as 40 do this stuff but the bulk seems to come from members of our age group or so I've noticed.



Was there one year, its like really weird, some of the drama surfaces and some not, basically everyone there is involved in some drama. Its hilarious.


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

Keefur said:


> Pedos are never OK.  I'm sorry you had to deal with that.  The Fandom is not, however a legitimate organization in that it has no actual structure or hierarchy.  You can't just "kick someone out" if they behave badly, and sometimes that is unfortunate.



That's exactly why I'm still here. 
I've spent enough time letting other people ruin things for me. I decided to not let a few bad folk ruin this for me, too.


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## puddinsticks (Oct 13, 2019)

AppleButt said:


> This is why I quit using Furry Amino, also because the user base is pretty young. ...



And this is exactly why I stopped going into Discord chats. You can only block so many people before it becomes a mess and you get yelled at for it.

The last large Discord chat I was in was mostly minors talking about their experiences and fantasies, I felt extremely uncomfortable as someone mid-20's.
When a group of the adults broke off from it made a 20+ chat, we got yelled at by the kids and it became a bit hot stinky mess...
We were told we were being 'gate keepers' and acting like elitists because we were adults. We just wanted to not read minors talk about sexual topics...

I just never use it anymore aside from talking to like 3 friends. I'm feeling forums suit my comfort best.


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 13, 2019)

SLB-Portu23 said:


> There is of course some natural biased perspective on my part when it comes to stating how much of an outcast I feel in this community mainly due to the fact I'm asexual and so the whole sexuality based and erotic side of the fandom does not interest me whatsoever which takes a huge chunk of my available means for intricate engagement within the fandom. Same can be said about not having a fursona, I mean, it might not be obligatory to have one in order to be considered a furry but it clearly as water affects your ability to have meaningful interactions with those who have them and are passionate about the character within.
> 
> So in all honesty, I'm really not in a good position to make expansive friendships around here.


Eh. I'm very far from asexual, and I do consume NSFW work, but it's practically always because I like it aesthetically and sometimes conceptually, not because it tickles my libido. No intent to brush off your experiences; if you feel it's been an obstacle to you, then your experiences are absolutely valid. I've known some wonderful artists whose involvement were completely with the "clean" side of the fandom, but who still engaged quite actively, though, so I want you to know that it's very much possible. 

If you don't roleplay, the importance of your fursona to online interactions within furry fandom also drops drastically. Mine's practically only "this is how I draw myself in furry art," because roleplaying as "myself" just doesn't jive with me. I have some MUCK characters I may log into Tapestries with once in a while, but they're independent creations that do not represent me-the-person. 

Which, I suppose, is a long-winded way of saying "how much any of those factors impact your ability to meet people in fandom depends on what sort of interaction you seek." I met my husband on the forums and/or IRC channel (can't recall if he also used the forums, at this point) of a webcomic I was reading back around the turn of the century. While the IRC channel could get a bit spicy sometimes, even the more adult discussions were first and foremost the lot of us hanging out and having a good time together. That was the interaction we all enjoyed, and it generally worked out well for everyone involved.



SLB-Portu23 said:


> What you said about the NSFW and fetish art is spot on, regardless of the characters and artstyle involved in it, this specific artistic niche always gets the most relevance and attention out of all the furry content in this community. If you combine great talent for art with a passion for erotic and/or kinky content then you'll most certainly gain a good following within the fandom.
> 
> I personally don't draw any fetish content, just random silly shenanigans and since I'm far from being a great artist well, I feel like its not even worth bothering to share my work around because most likely people won't care about it.


It's a loose tendency, but not a hard and fast rule. Ursula Vernon's work is _quite_ popular, and I can't think of any adult work she's done; certainly none that's nearly so well-known as her quirky, sassy comics and illustrations. I've had looks at the statistics of both my personal and my (shared) webcomic FA account in the past, and "tells a story" has had a stronger correlation with high view counts than rating alone - people are attracted to comics or art that otherwise suggests a narrative. I also know all the way back from my VCL days that it can make a world of difference whether art thumbnails well.

The only way to build a following and get people to care about your content is sharing it. Posting regularly and reasonably often (one or a couple uploads a day is often better than a dozen submissions every other week or whatever) is more helpful than drawing dick both for developing your own artistic abilities and for attracting attention in the long term.

Fetish content only really seems to have a significant effect on your visibility, long-term, if it's incredibly niche, in my experience. There's 2-3 specific pieces (all featuring the same very niche kink; they're a series) on my hard kink alt account that seem to get practically all the post-upload-date love. I don't care much either way, as I experiment a lot with what subject matter I draw, and only touched that one on a lark. 



puddinsticks said:


> It often feels like I'm just expected to be into polyamory or flirtatious because I'm in the furry fandom, when in reality I just want to be with my husband alone.


To some degree I think that's an effect of having a monogamous relationship and being happy in it - not in the sense that people try to muscle into established relationships (though I'm sure there are people who happily would), but that being in the relationship makes it more noticeable to you. I have seen plenty of poly-hostile sentiment around, and had it directed at me here on the forums a few times because I'm open about being poly and talk about relationships from that perspective (practically always with a giant "poly is not for everyone and that's okay" disclaimer, because fuck the idea that there's one true relationship structure that fits everyone). Basically, whatever your relationship looks like, you're liable to run into people who think it should be something else.

A large part of the underlying problem, though, often seems to be a lack of consensus regarding what is and isn't romantic/intimate/etc. If person A thinks adult text-based roleplaying is essentially just collaborative storytelling, and person B sees it as basically sex, then it's practically inevitable that boundaries get crossed.

Which is a large part of why I 500% think we, as a fandom with a lot of members in their teens to early twenties, need more discussion about boundaries, both establishing and respecting them. 



Zahur said:


> this is now a pay 2 stay community.


I know people who've been in this community about as long as you've been alive and who haven't spent money on anything furry in the last ~15 years, to the best of my knowledge. Doesn't make them less furry. There's no one running around checking your "furry pass" to make sure you've paid your dues - you can spend as much or as little as you want and if people give you flak for it, they're the ones with the problem. If it's something that's an issue in a particular social circle, Discord server, or whatever, then find another one. Because I can guarantee you it's not universal.



Zahur said:


> famous artists get paid more than medics/nurses considered the hours they put in their job and this is utterly disgusting


A _very_ small percentage of artists managing to reach a point where they can make a comfortable living off their art is not disgusting. Maybe it's gross that medical personnel isn't better paid (I don't know what numbers you're comparing), but generally speaking furry art does not pay exceptionally well for the vast majority of artists, especially considering that art doesn't come with sick leave, paid time off, health insurance, a billing department, or any of the many things that non-self-employed people never have to worry about. "Famous" furry artists also don't generally pull in the kind of money that big-name mainstream/fine art artists do.



Zahur said:


> If you never-ever had a negative experience you probably are one of these careless people I'm talking about in my thread or you just chat/hang with furries that are close to you or you are new to the fandom.


There's a huge difference between saying "these are not exclusively furry problems" or "I never experienced this specific problem" and saying "I never had any negative experiences in furry fandom whatsoever," though. 

It's perfectly plausible (for instance) that people came into furry fandom as teenagers and made it past 18 without being pressured for adult roleplaying, as that's one thing that definitely depends a _lot_ on what social circles you move in. It's also not something (and I know this from personal experience) at all unique to furry fandom. Doesn't make it right that there are adults that do this (though in my experience they're usually fairly young adults, in their early twenties at most, so the age difference may be pretty small and their judgment may not be much better than that of someone in their late teens), but it does mean that framing it as a problem with furry fandom isn't all that accurate.


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## MaelstromEyre (Oct 13, 2019)

Keefur said:


> You are laying all of the baggage at the feet of the Fandom.  The Fandom is a very tolerant place compared to most fan based groups.  The Fandom is also one where the average age is about 23 to 26.  That is an age group where sexual drives are at their peak.  To say that Furries  don't think about or have sex would be a huge lie.  At that age, if you aren't in a relationship, then you pretty much are always thinking about how to get into one.  The difference is that since the Fandom is such a tolerant place, sex is discussed more often and more openly.  This is a good thing and a bad thing.  Sex is a natural biological function, but society imposes "rules" about social behavior when dealing with sex.  I will say that hitting on a minor definitely falls into the "bad thing" catagory.  A lot of the other things you address here I personally attribute to attitudes tolerated by society at large and not something that only occurs within the Fandom.  People everywhere want to be popular and want attention.  There's an old saying that "even bad attention is attention".  These are problems that permiate culture world wide.  I was at FangCon, and was talking to the hotel chief of security.  I asked him what he thought of our group and he said he loved us because we were so well behaved.  I asked him what was the worst group he had ever had to deal with, and without a second of hesitation, he told me that it was hairdressers.  He said all they wanted to do was get drunk and hook up.  So, in conclusion, you are throwing away the Fandom for issues that you will find everywhere else as well.  That's fine, if you want to isolate yourself from these things, but you are definitely denying yourself a lot of good life experiences as well.



Other than just joking around with other adults, I have never had much interest in the NSFW aspect of the fandom, and - no - it absolutely isn't a requirement of being a furry. 

I have experienced the same, on the Second Life network, when another furry kept trying to get me to participate in their kink - something I had NO interest in.  They also completely dismissed the fact that I am heterosexual, insisting they could change my mind.  They absolutely would not take "no" for an answer, until I blocked them.

This is stuff that happens in MANY communities.  Being a "furry" doesn't mean you HAVE to share all the same interests and tastes as everyone else.  There are Telegram and Discord groups I have joined and left because the only thing they wanted to talk about was NSFW topics, or share NSFW art.  Just find the people you like, and hang out with them.

It's really not something worth leaving the fandom over, because it's everywhere else, to a degree.

And if ANYONE makes you uncomfortable or tries to push you into talking about stuff, or RPing stuff you don't want to, tell them you're not interested.

If they persist, block them.


----------



## Connor J. Coyote (Oct 14, 2019)

@Zahur Eh, (personally) - I think the Fandom can be kind of what you make of it, in a lot ways..... as yes - it can be toxic, if one allows it to be..... and, it can also be a wonderful and pleasant place, too.... and so - I think it all largely comes down to how you handle things.... and so, perhaps just focusing on the good things, (and the good people, that you enjoy)..... may be a really good strategy - like I'm trying to employ, myself (these days).


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## ConorHyena (Oct 14, 2019)

Zahur said:


> If you never-ever had a negative experience you probably are one of these careless people I'm talking about in my thread or you just chat/hang with furries that are close to you or you are new to the fandom.
> I don't see any other options.
> 
> 
> ...




I have had very little negative experience with this fandom, and the people within it. I've been around for close to 7 years now.

I manage my personal relationships in a way that I avoid being friends with people that I do not like/approve of. I am not on discord with them, etc. If someone annoys me with NSFW content I dont want to see, I tell them in clear terms to sod off with. Usually that's enoygh.

And if it isn't, this is still the internet. Block, move on.(albeit both on here and on discord my block list, so far, is empty)

I am not going to go into the issue of payment, etc, i just wouldnt use the word disgusting and I think you are wrong.

I have not seen a pay to stay mentality everywhere. I had no commissioned art of my sona for the last ~6 years and only commissioned after i got my current one

People who base friendship on art are not worth ny time anyhow. I wouldnt want to be friends with someone like that anyhow.


----------



## LameFox (Oct 14, 2019)

Zahur said:


> - this is now a pay 2 stay community.



What does this mean?



Zahur said:


> famous artists get paid more than medics/nurses considered the hours they put in their job and this is utterly disgusting



I doubt if that happens with many of them at all and, even then, when you consider these artists as part of the entertainment industry as a whole they're neither famous nor obscenely well-paid. So even if the comparison to jobs like nursing bothers you I'm not sure why you'd associate it with furries in particular.



Zahur said:


> Oh you don't have arts/good arts? Too bad we can't be friend kek



Is this some kind of roleplay issue? Never encountered anything like it.


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## TheCops (Oct 14, 2019)

This is why I aint becomin a furry. I think anthro animals are neat, but I dont want to see fox pussy


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## foussiremix (Oct 14, 2019)

TheCops said:


> This is why I aint becomin a furry. I think anthro animals are neat, but I dont want to see fox pussy



A fussy?


----------



## HistoricalyIncorrect (Oct 14, 2019)

Same, for every single negative argument sunshine.

But if you really want to see toxicity then go on Discord rp servers.
I also am thinking about dropping the fandom after 15 years. I guess i did by now as I used to  e FAF regular. Now i log in once per month maybe.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 14, 2019)

I'm broadly overwhelmed by how much detailed information this thread has gathered so far but if there's one thing I can take away from it at this instant without needing to linger around for a while, reading everything from start to finish once again is that I'm clearly not as isolated in terms of my own formulated mindset and adopted posture regarding this community as I thought to be a week ago.

There is plenty of  valid argumentation and reasoning in here but most of it is highly subjective accordingly to each ones experiences which doesn't makes it any less legitimate, only prone to being contradicted because everyone's has had a distinct set of events happening to them. This is a great topic to be discussed in all fronts, just not worth the nurturing of any interpersonal conflicts amongst fellow forum members. 

It doesn't looks like I'm as much of an outcast as I saw myself being afterall, that's certainly a positive aspect I can take from what's been shared here.


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## Zahur (Oct 14, 2019)

People still try to go off topic from the focus of the thread being "the furry community is toxic" and not "I'm lucky I never had one because I block people / don't RP/ don't commission art"
Of course the less stuff you will do the less toxic people you will meet.
____________________

Talking about artists, I've seen people able to make 100+ euro per day(or per commission if you prefer),  with full shades pics getting done in 2 hours, let's say the time you need is around the 8 hours to finish a piece (if you want to be considered a professional artist and you want to make an outcome out of it) you could literally work 23 days per month (which is the normal amount a person usually do if not more, I work 26-7 days per month) and make 2.3k ish, you charge a bit less? Around 2k still.

I get paid 1.6k to risk life every day in the streets, let alone how medics feel that they have to stuff 5+years nonstop with tons of internship to get paid less per hour than an artist.

_____________________

Why is it a p2stay community? Because if you don't get X numbers commission per month you become irrelevant to some people. 
I know these are piece of shits and I don't want to have nothing to do with em but just their existence  bothers me.

______________________

F-list is already a cancer place to RP and it is a moderated place made on purpose to Rap, I will never ever take them to discord/telegram unless I know the person way too well ( and sometimes even closer friends turn on you just for silly RP stuff, furries, duh)

__________________


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## ConorHyena (Oct 14, 2019)

Zahur said:


> People still try to go off topic from the focus of the thread being "the furry community is toxic" and not "I'm lucky I never had one because I block people / don't RP/ don't commission art"
> Of course the less stuff you will do the less toxic people you will meet.
> ____________________
> 
> ...



Replying again

The point of the assumption "the furry community is toxic" is that you make it. This thread is not a safe space for everyone to agree with you. Some may contradict you. This is a public forum. Accept it. I do too. My experiences have been contrary from anything on this thread despite the fact that I both RP, commission art, am in a few discord servers and even, oh god, use F-List from time to time. This fandom (not community) is too diverse to actually make broad, sweeping statements like that. Some communities within this fandom may be toxic, but not all of them! That is what people disagree with you.

There are people who make over 100€ a day without having to lift a finger. If you invest enough money in the right way, that's a possibility. If you want to complain about how unfair people get paid then I would suggest a thread in the political section on how evil capitalism is. Else this is going to make you sound like you're pissed that other people are making money their way while you earn less.  Honestly, from where I'm standing financially, 2.3k $ per month is not a lot of money, just sayin'. 

Again, you're sweepingly generalising about communities with your statement. There are a lot of welcoming communities within the furry fandom that are accepting, even if you have no commissioned art. And idiots will be idiots and they exist everywhere, best not to let them bother oneself.


----------



## LameFox (Oct 14, 2019)

Zahur said:


> Talking about artists, I've seen people able to make 100+ euro per day(or per commission if you prefer),  with full shades pics getting done in 2 hours, let's say the time you need is around the 8 hours to finish a piece (if you want to be considered a professional artist and you want to make an outcome out of it) you could literally work 23 days per month (which is the normal amount a person usually do if not more, I work 26-7 days per month) and make 2.3k ish, you charge a bit less? Around 2k still.
> 
> I get paid 1.6k to risk life every day in the streets, let alone how medics feel that they have to stuff 5+years nonstop with tons of internship to get paid less per hour than an artist.



I still don't get why you associate freelance art specifically with furries, or what effect you think this is having on the salaries of medics. For that matter I don't know why you're specifically concerned about the perceived fairness of artists' vs medical personnel's pay at all. That pay isn't proportionate to the moral value of work (if there is such a thing) isn't exactly unusual.



Zahur said:


> Why is it a p2stay community? Because if you don't get X numbers commission per month you become irrelevant to some people.
> I know these are piece of shits and I don't want to have nothing to do with em but just their existence  bothers me.



At the risk of sounding insensitive, it's a pretty safe bet that you are always irrelevant to some people. Sometimes for a specific reason, sometimes not. It's really not something avoidable or worth worrying about, and certainly not tied to being active in the furry community.


----------



## foussiremix (Oct 14, 2019)

Zahur said:


> Talking about artists, I've seen people able to make 100+ euro per day(or per commission if you prefer),  with full shades pics getting done in 2 hours, let's say the time you need is around the 8 hours to finish a piece (if you want to be considered a professional artist and you want to make an outcome out of it) you could literally work 23 days per month (which is the normal amount a person usually do if not more, I work 26-7 days per month) and make 2.3k ish, you charge a bit less? Around 2k still.
> 
> I get paid 1.6k to risk life every day in the streets, let alone how medics feel that they have to stuff 5+years nonstop with tons of internship to get paid less per hour than an artist.



You do realize the people who do art  put alot of money into their equipment to create the art not to mention the time and stuff.
I mean c´mon.....
Don´t be so disrespectful.


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## puddinsticks (Oct 14, 2019)

foussiremix said:


> You do realize the people who do art  put alot of money into their equipment to create the art not to mention the time and stuff.
> I mean c´mon.....
> Don´t be so disrespectful.



Okay so. I'm backish. Hi again everyone. lol

I just want to chime in that I, for example, have been practicing character illustration since gradeshool, and have a degree in Graphic Design with credits towards Game Design.
My computer is a custom build that is specified for digital art and graphics, and I have a few different digital tablets. None of that is cheap, and my time spent in college wasn't either.
Art is a profession, and it does sting a bit on a personal level when I see people downplaying the years and money that can go into mastering it as a trade. 
I do digital commissions, that's my sole source of income. It's my job, I went to school for it.

While that isn't true for every artist, we certainly can't just blanket all art as overpaid and undeserving. 
If people are willing to pay what an artist asks for, that's all that needs to be said about the situation.
I don't think that's a problem with the furry fandom, that's just supply and demand at work.


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## MaelstromEyre (Oct 14, 2019)

Zahur said:


> Why is it a p2stay community? Because if you don't get X numbers commission per month you become irrelevant to some people.
> I know these are piece of shits and I don't want to have nothing to do with em but just their existence  bothers me.
> 
> ______________________



It's a pretty big fandom, there are always going to be elitists and people who think you're "nothing" if you don't have a fursuit, or ears or a tail or a ton of rainbow paw clothing or stickers or whatever, or have a ton of expensive commissions of your character by the popular artists.  To be honest, I don't really care that much when other people DO have a lot of stuff.  That's their money, they can spend it like they want, but it doesn't make them "more" furry or me "less furry." And if they're that shallow that they try to make it a competition, they're of no interest to me.

It's a fandom.

It's not supposed to be a popularity contest. It's not "pay to stay."

For every artist that can actually make a living exclusively by doing art, there are probably 50 who are struggling.  How many artist journals do you see on FA from people who need to do "emergency" commissions just to cover some basic living expenses?  Some of them are determined to make it their primary source of income, to the point that they refuse any job opportunities with better pay, and that's fine.  That's their dream, but I also don't give them "emergency" donations because they've dug themselves into a financial hole.


----------



## Peach's (Oct 14, 2019)

I'm rather new, but I view online nonsense as online nonsense, I tend not to care about some drama until it effects me personally; like the cancel culture.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 14, 2019)

I've never commissioned art from anyone or spent a penny in furry related material possessions or cosmetics. My FA page only has stuff made by myself and I'm sure its going to stay that way for a long, long time because money is quite short on these pastures and as a result, its imperative that I prioritise what's truly essential for sustaining a somewhat comfortable lifestyle.

Do I think having such minimal furry content in my possession affects the ability to have a largely meaningful integration on this community? Yes. Does it make building good relationships with fellow fandom members impossible? No, it surely can't. All it takes is finding the right people and having the courage and willingness to approach them with an open spirit. Not going to lie, this has been way harder than I initially expected but now more than ever before, its genuinely looking like there could be something for me in here afterall and a rushed negative  emotion fomented decision to simply call in the quits on the furry community would serve no real benefit to me.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Oct 14, 2019)

OP has brought many valid points, and I agree with most of it - the furry fandom has some really toxic aspects, and nutcases. With that said though, I block such people, and I leave places that are out of controls. I suppose that helps me enjoy the fandom.


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## quoting_mungo (Oct 14, 2019)

I'm not feeling great today, and may be a bit cranky, plus my "tough love"/"hard truth" buttons have been pushed pretty hard. But fucking hell, _some_ people are eager to blame general Internet-people (or just people-in-general) issues/toxicity on furry fandom specifically.

I do stand by what I said earlier about the whole notion of people "faking mental illness" - people who genuinely have pretty severe mental health issues half the time all but get treated as though they're faking or exaggerating, so I don't think it's an accusation that should be thrown around lightly. Nor something worth giving very many fucks about - what does it harm you if RedFox McFoxbutt doesn't _actually_ suffer from depression?



Zahur said:


> People still try to go off topic from the focus of the thread being "the furry community is toxic" and not "I'm lucky I never had one because I block people / don't RP/ don't commission art"
> Of course the less stuff you will do the less toxic people you will meet.


Why are you so desperate to have the thread reaffirm that every negative perception of yours is objective truth? Why do you need people to approach it from the premise that your grievances are universal?

No one is saying that your experiences as you relay them aren't negative. But saying "I don't share those experiences" serves a purpose that isn't pulling the thread "off topic" - if you refuse to see that you may have just found yourself in bad company, and judge the whole fandom based on the pockets of it you've explored, you're kind of courting misery. And, to be frank, I'm more and more, based on your hostile behavior in this thread, starting to suspect that part of what makes people withdraw from you isn't your not commissioning art, but you showing animosity towards people who do and the artists who create it.

There is shit going on in furry fandom. But if it's shit it has in common with most other online spaces, laying it at the feet of the furry community is not fair. If it's something that has been going on for 20 years or more, presenting it as a new development of the last decade is inaccurate. We respect that your experience is what you've seen, but we're also saying that what a single person has seen isn't necessarily going to be the whole picture.

I spent almost 5 years (like a month and a half short) as FA staff. I've not sat quiet in a corner of the fandom. Prior to that I was active in other furry spaces. Most of the toxicity I saw was the effect of one or two charismatic individuals coming in and setting the tone of a particular community, and wasn't generally indicative of what went on outside of that community. It's not a fandom problem in the sense you're presenting it, in my experience.

I _have_ had negative experiences in fandom. I literally walked out of a furmeet like three days ago because I couldn't handle being around a handful of furries I didn't previously know, in part due to those negative experiences. I was literally on the verge of attempting suicide because of harassment from a group of furries some 22 months ago. But regardless of how shitty those experiences were and how bad the aftereffects have been for me, I have the maturity to see that my negative experiences aren't inherent to furry fandom, nor something that the majority of furries knew about, much less engaged in, even if it didn't feel that way at the time.

If anything, the underlying problem is the toxicity that's fed by the anonymity of the Internet.



Zahur said:


> I get paid 1.6k to risk life every day in the streets, let alone how medics feel that they have to stuff 5+years nonstop with tons of internship to get paid less per hour than an artist.


I can assure you, the artists that make the kind of money you're talking about have pretty much universally spent a whole lot more than 5 years working up to where they are. Much of that time has almost certainly been a net loss, as they've done unpaid work to hone their skills while having to pay for materials. Many artists have taken art classes, and continue to do work outside of commissions to improve their skills. That $2.3k you cite will also be before tax (both income tax and VAT), which can take a significant amount out of a self-employed individual's income. Add time spent on invoicing, bookkeeping, advertising, communicating with clients, etc, and the hourly average also drops.

While there's probably some artist out there with a 2-hour turnaround for a fully rendered piece, most people I've interacted with think me doing an inked and flat colored digital piece with no or minimal background in maybe 2-3 hours is quick. I get that it sucks to see other people earn more than you do - I have my moments when it irritates me that a relative of mine gets _sick pay_ that's about twice what I'd need to live comfortably. But begrudging people compensation for their work _creating luxury items_ just because you think you should be paid better is petty.



Zahur said:


> I know these are piece of shits and I don't want to have nothing to do with em but just their existence bothers me.


That's a you problem, not a fandom problem. If you can't get over the fact that there are shallow people out there, you're not going to be happy _anywhere_. (It's also kind of hypocritical, in my opinion, as you've expressed some pretty shallow opinions yourself in this thread.) Because shallow people exist. You can make the choice not to interact with them, or you can confront them about their behavior, but you can't chastise the fandom into ostracizing them.


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## SwiftDog (Oct 14, 2019)

Yeah, I hear you. I used to be very sexually actively in the fandom, but it kept backfiring. I’d do a sexual rp with someone, say. And then they get all interested in you and want to keep rping. I call those people chronic RPers and avoid them at all costs. These days I’m only interested in friendships. I experienced a lot of short term friendships. 3 months or so and then bleh, you don’t exist. 

The fandom seems to attract some of the most socially dysfunctional people imaginable. Part of that is being a furry to begin with. Being a furry means you enjoy hiding behind an animal face. You’re not yourself. People are afraid to be themselves. So a lot of people who’re very socially awakened become furries. It’s just sort of the psychology behind it. I’m guilty of it too but I’m a salesperson and businessman irl, i have very good people skills. Doesn’t mean I also enjoy socializing. 

So I tell people, “I don’t erp, but I enjoy making new friends!” Yeah, usually don’t hear from them again. 



Keefur said:


> You are laying all of the baggage at the feet of the Fandom.  The Fandom is a very tolerant place compared to most fan based groups.  The Fandom is also one where the average age is about 23 to 26.  That is an age group where sexual drives are at their peak.  To say that Furries  don't think about or have sex would be a huge lie.  At that age, if you aren't in a relationship, then you pretty much are always thinking about how to get into one.  The difference is that since the Fandom is such a tolerant place, sex is discussed more often and more openly.  This is a good thing and a bad thing.  Sex is a natural biological function, but society imposes "rules" about social behavior when dealing with sex.  I will say that hitting on a minor definitely falls into the "bad thing" catagory.  A lot of the other things you address here I personally attribute to attitudes tolerated by society at large and not something that only occurs within the Fandom.  People everywhere want to be popular and want attention.  There's an old saying that "even bad attention is attention".  These are problems that permiate culture world wide.  I was at FangCon, and was talking to the hotel chief of security.  I asked him what he thought of our group and he said he loved us because we were so well behaved.  I asked him what was the worst group he had ever had to deal with, and without a second of hesitation, he told me that it was hairdressers.  He said all they wanted to do was get drunk and hook up.  So, in conclusion, you are throwing away the Fandom for issues that you will find everywhere else as well.  That's fine, if you want to isolate yourself from these things, but you are definitely denying yourself a lot of good life experiences as well.



It’s more likely sexual drives peak around the mid to late teen years. And with some people it simply doesn’t go away. It’s okay to have a healthy sex drive, duh, it just means you’re human, but it needs to be handled properly and maturely.


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## 1234554321 (Oct 15, 2019)

Zahur said:


> People still try to go off topic from the focus of the thread being "the furry community is toxic" and not "I'm lucky I never had one because I block people / don't RP/ don't commission art"
> Of course the less stuff you will do the less toxic people you will meet.
> ____________________
> 
> ...


I agree with what you said earlier about the fandom being garbage but if some people are able to make that amount of money through art, well shit, more power to 'em. I'm kinda jelly if we're being completely honest, seems like a comfy job. And I wouldn't really call this fandom pay-to-stay either: there's nothing stopping anyone from picking up a pencil and getting their character on paper if they truly want to, they might get good at it too. There's even some people willing to take requests without wanting _anything_ in return! Definitely NOT what I would do but eh, it's their time to waste


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## Zahur (Oct 16, 2019)

Ckiimyir said:


> I agree with what you said earlier about the fandom being garbage but if some people are able to make that amount of money through art, well shit, more power to 'em. I'm kinda jelly if we're being completely honest, seems like a comfy job. And I wouldn't really call this fandom pay-to-stay either: there's nothing stopping anyone from picking up a pencil and getting their character on paper if they truly want to, they might get good at it too. There's even some people willing to take requests without wanting _anything_ in return! Definitely NOT what I would do but eh, it's their time to waste



Nothing to say about it, if they can do it feel free, but it's kinda sad


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## Zahur (Oct 21, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> I'm not feeling great today, and may be a bit cranky, plus my "tough love"/"hard truth" buttons have been pushed pretty hard. But fucking hell, _some_ people are eager to blame general Internet-people (or just people-in-general) issues/toxicity on furry fandom specifically.
> 
> I do stand by what I said earlier about the whole notion of people "faking mental illness" - people who genuinely have pretty severe mental health issues half the time all but get treated as though they're faking or exaggerating, so I don't think it's an accusation that should be thrown around lightly. Nor something worth giving very many fucks about - what does it harm you if RedFox McFoxbutt doesn't _actually_ suffer from depression?
> 
> ...


I've stopped taking you seriously after you said furries almost made you suicide but it's not furries negativity to have caused it.
And still my point remains, as I said you cannot change my mind.
Also you earned a place to my blacklist with your nonsense.


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## KimberVaile (Oct 24, 2019)

Oh, I agree, the community has serious issues. But the absolute irony is that Kothorix was always a part of the issue. If his "in Defense of Pedophiles" video or the "Art is art!" videos are any indication. He's taken a bullet for the worst kinds of people in the fandom multiple times before, yet goes on like he's in a position to preach to everyone. Just kinda funny to me how lacking in self awareness he is. INB4 some Kothorix dieahard claims I'm "taking him out of context."

You know, with such amazing quotes like

"Why does the law decide a person becomes an adult at the age 18?"

"Shouldn't the age you be allowed to have sex be based on when you reach sexual maturity?"

"In Japan the age of consent is 13. But, I'm sure many of the Japanese see it as normal and Americans as exceptional prudes."


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## Zahur (Oct 27, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Oh, I agree, the community has serious issues. But the absolute irony is that Kothorix was always a part of the issue. If his "in Defense of Pedophiles" video or the "Art is art!" videos are any indication. He's taken a bullet for the worst kinds of people in the fandom multiple times before, yet goes on like he's in a position to preach to everyone. Just kinda funny to me how lacking in self awareness he is. INB4 some Kothorix dieahard claims I'm "taking him out of context."
> 
> You know, with such amazing quotes like
> 
> ...


At least he has the guts to talk about the problems and doesn't let them stay because people want to talk in a non-existent utopia but a dystopia.
______________
Since people continue to talk about it:
To be honest Koth did made a point but  IMO he couldn't explain it that better in that video.
My interpretation of it is that pedophilia is not something an individual wants but more of a mental illness and the individual should get cured.

About sexual maturity... yes and no, I remember seeing an interview of two kids that had sex since the age of 7 and during the interview were something like 10? They didn't even know what they were doing was sex until one of em looked it up on the internet (can't find the video sadly and typing "kid sex interview" or similar makes me feel awkward lol)

In Japan the adult age is 21 for example
In italy consent age is 14
In other countries down to 12
In 'Murica 16
I think even if a standard should be found to make life better globally.

And these are my last words about that topic.


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## KimberVaile (Oct 27, 2019)

Zahur said:


> At least he has the guts to talk about the problems and doesn't let them stay because people want to talk in a non-existent utopia but a dystopia.
> ______________
> Since people continue to talk about it:
> To be honest Koth did made a point but  IMO he couldn't explain it that better in that video.
> ...



Most of those quotes are from his video

Kothorix's point about how people treat pedophiles and his spiel about the age of consent laws are different. If he had just left his video on the first point, he probably wouldn't have been as widely mocked as he was. 

I don't see the issue with the current age of consent law in the US is y point, yet he goes on about how a law dictating age of consent is somehow wrong, and unrealistically expects that in the stead of said age of consent laws would be state regulated sexual maturity tests. Cause that's totally feasible and realistic somehow. 
 Laws by their nature are broad, there really isn't much other alternative.


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## Lexiand (Oct 27, 2019)

AppleButt said:


> This is why I quit using Furry Amino, also because the user base is pretty young.
> 
> I’m 26 years old, and a lot of kids around 13+ would start sending NSFW when not invited to do so.  I’d have to nope the fuck out of chats cause of it.  I noticed it started to be fairly common, so I just left it.
> 
> That’s why if you’re 21+ I do not recommend furry amino.



*I can confirm that this is true. And im quite surprised tho.*


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## Keefur (Oct 27, 2019)

You mentioned how artists can make good money on their art and you make it sound like they have invested virtually no effort in doing so.  Pable Picasso was one of the richest and most influential artists of the 20th century.  This excerpt from an article about his life might give your some perspective.

During his lifetime, Picasso produced an estimated 50,000 artworks: including 885 paintings, 1,228 sculptures, 2,880 ceramics, 12,000 drawings, and thousands of prints, tapestries and rugs. 3

Now consider this: In 1890, at the age of eight years old, Picasso created his first artwork, The Picador, and produced up to 50,000 artworks until he died at the age of 91 years old.

This means Picasso spent approximately 30,295 days working on his craft, and produced an average of one new piece of artwork each day.

By the time he produced the breakthrough painting, _Les Demoiselles d’Avignon_, Picasso would have spent nearly 20 years creating approximately 7,300 pieces of artwork.

This is an incredible volume of work by any standard, especially considering that Picasso had a natural talent in art and was considered to be a child prodigy in his youth.

Picasso’s story stands in stark contrast to the messages of instant results and overnight success pushed by the mass media.

It’s a humbling reminder that there are no secrets, magic pills or shortcuts to success in life and work.

And most importantly, Picasso’s story brings home the timeless ingredients of success: hard work, patience and consistency.


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## Zahur (Oct 28, 2019)

Keefur said:


> You mentioned how artists can make good money on their art and you make it sound like they have invested virtually no effort in doing so.  Pable Picasso was one of the richest and most influential artists of the 20th century.  This excerpt from an article about his life might give your some perspective.
> 
> During his lifetime, Picasso produced an estimated 50,000 artworks: including 885 paintings, 1,228 sculptures, 2,880 ceramics, 12,000 drawings, and thousands of prints, tapestries and rugs. 3
> 
> ...



I would be fine with how much they get paid if they "work" each day as Picasso did.
Which is one of the reasons why he was THAT rich as you mentioned at the start of your thought.


TLR: if you want people to be able to say that it is your job, work as hard as Pablo Picasso.
P.S.: comparing Picasso to a furry porn artist (80?% of the Furry artists) makes me cringe a tiny bit.


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## Keefur (Oct 28, 2019)

Zahur said:


> I would be fine with how much they get paid if they "work" each day as Picasso did.
> Which is one of the reasons why he was THAT rich as you mentioned at the start of your thought.
> 
> 
> ...



Did you also know that Picasso went to Paris for a year and lived in abject poverty because even though he was really good, he couldn't make enough money to live on?  He went back home after one of his artist friends committed suicide because he too, was so poor.  Picasso went back to Paris again after time at home to prove to his family that he could make it as an artist.  It isn't just about the hard work.

You are the one comparing Picasso to the "porn" artists.  I was merely stating that artists need to make a living and that many of the artists in the Fandom have invested years of hard work, too.


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## Fallowfox (Oct 28, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> Most of those quotes are from his video
> 
> Kothorix's point about how people treat pedophiles and his spiel about the age of consent laws are different. If he had just left his video on the first point, he probably wouldn't have been as widely mocked as he was.
> 
> ...



...yeah I _wonder _what sort of person would want to sign up to give all the kiddies their sexual maturity tests.


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## SLB-Portu23 (Oct 29, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> ...yeah I _wonder _what sort of person would want to sign up to give all the kiddies their sexual maturity tests.


A Barney cosplayer most likely.


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## Zahur (Oct 31, 2019)

Keefur said:


> Did you also know that Picasso went to Paris for a year and lived in abject poverty because even though he was really good, he couldn't make enough money to live on?  He went back home after one of his artist friends committed suicide because he too, was so poor.  Picasso went back to Paris again after time at home to prove to his family that he could make it as an artist.  It isn't just about the hard work.
> 
> You are the one comparing Picasso to the "porn" artists.  I was merely stating that artists need to make a living and that many of the artists in the Fandom have invested years of hard work, too.


Yeah that before he became famous. If you want to teach art history do it in its entirety, instead of omitting stuff to look smart. I don't tolerate fake-smartness.
Did you know he also burnt some of his early drawings to survive for heating?
Of course not, you just type stuff that might seem cool just to grab a few likes.
Also after that period, he moved to Madrid to start his Blue Period (Is even that the name in English?) which launched him into being known?


Also x2, you literally put Picasso in the topic, while talking about furry artists and then you are denying your own words, delusional.


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## XanderBoi (Oct 31, 2019)

I've refused to get involved up to this point, but since you keep reviving this tread, I'll bite. Stop with the attention grab. This thread was posted over 2 weeks ago as you venting your frustrations and claiming to be leaving the fandom. 2 weeks later, you're still posting and actively involved. It's an attention ploy. You talk about what is wrong with the fandom... people like you are what's wrong with any fandom. A fandom is supposed to be about sharing a passion you have with others who have the same passion. It's about coming together and spreading joy. Yes, there are always going to be bad eggs, and you are one of them. But, most of us are here for fun, and are having it.

Instead of trying to be one of the good things about our little corner of the internet, you have chosen to spread negativity and malice. This message is not intended to be a "wake up call" for you, because quite frankly, I'd rather you just did what you initially said you were going to do and just left for good. The point of this was to make myself feel better and anyone else who you have insulted, ridiculed, or just plain been mean to over the past two weeks.

I'm sure I'll get your vile reply to this even though there is no chance I will read it. Have a nice life kiddo. Maybe one day you'll grow up.


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## Bigger2Better (Apr 22, 2022)

_Ivory_ said:


> You are right but I've been in the fandom for years and the good i found was probably 1% out of all the fandom. I don't want to be offensive or anything, im not an angel either but after years i'm starting to be a bit tired of finding always the same kinds of people. Honestly i dont think tat leaving the fandom means denying yourself a lot of nice things





_Ivory_ said:


> I strongly agree, i met the same kinds of people and 90% of teh freidns only last a couple of months before starting to be absent and cold


Case and point


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## Bigger2Better (Apr 22, 2022)

1234554321 said:


> Suuuuure, there are decent furries out there, but you'll have as much luck finding them as finding water in a desert. Daring to talk to anyone is the equivalent of walking in a minefield, so better stick to just fapping to the porn: that's literally all this tumoral growth of a fandom is good for


Nice to know that not only hypocrites are here

Now Redditers/no life’s are here


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## Bigger2Better (Apr 22, 2022)

Zahur said:


> I've stopped taking you seriously after you said furries almost made you suicide but it's not furries negativity to have caused it.
> And still my point remains, as I said you cannot change my mind.
> Also you earned a place to my blacklist with your nonsense.


Yes,

If you bring actual logic

BLACKLIST


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## Crimcyan (Apr 22, 2022)

Bruh why do clowns keep necroing threads to start drama


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## Smityyyy (Apr 22, 2022)

Bruh why you responding to posters from like 3 years ago lmao


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## TyraWadman (Apr 22, 2022)

_I'm so mad I'm gonna start a fight with someone...

Ah perfect! These people are most likely inactive so they probably won't even be around to reply! I can get the last word in!!!_


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## LameFox (Apr 23, 2022)

I forgot I even replied to this back then lol. This site should really lock inactive threads so weirdos who stumble here from google can't just reflexively post 10 seconds worth of bullshit in reply and wander off. If they really want to discuss a topic they can make a new thread.


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## AvalonChi (Apr 24, 2022)

I have had a myriad of experiences in my 12 years as a furry. On the whole, most people have been kind and welcoming. The most frustrating thing is wanting art but not being able to commission it. My husband is non-furry and dislikes furries making it hard to get art. I have run into some nastiness being a straight woman sayingI don’t belong in the fandom as it informs alternative lifestyles. I desperately would like RL furry friends but can’t seem to make any


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## KimberVaile (Apr 24, 2022)

Christ almighty, stop necroing these dead topics. If you're intent on making a jab at somebody at least have the basic tact to keep your personal falling out with that person reserved to their profile.


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## Baron Tredegar (Apr 24, 2022)

Please let the necros from a decade ago end. Also why does everyone who does this kind of post always use the same Kothorix video? Dont they know what he did?


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## Kellan Meig'h (Apr 25, 2022)

New user necros an old thread. Standard FAF modus operandi. Place new necro user on ignore, all good again.


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## a sleepy kitty (Apr 25, 2022)

Why do some folks pretend to be mentally ill? That's idiotic; considering the lifelong stigma and stress associated with having mental health issues. Smh


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