# Too much drama/character building



## TakeWalker (May 31, 2008)

I'm sort of mixing genres here, as my initial concerns stem from my RP group side project, but I wanted to bring this to bear here anyway.

When is drama too much? Is there a line at which you're doing nothing but torturing characters? I know I've felt this as a reader (c.f. Jim Butcher's _Dresden Files_), but as a writer, I'm not sure how far is too far, especially when I'm writing for other people. Given things that have happened recently, I wonder if plans for my main writing project are perhaps too grand, if I might be setting myself up for serious failure should I take the drama route I have planned.

So how do you justify drama? Someone told me last night, "Character growth is not just overcoming obstacles". This somehow shocked me, both that I'd never really had any sort of definition put on it, and that, when it comes right down to it, I can't really come up with a definition for character growth myself. This bothers me. What the hell are my characters doing then, if dramatic moments are not enough to mold them? I may have goals as a writer, but do the characters themselves have goals?

Well, for me the answer is no. And I think this is a personal deal; I don't exactly have goals myself. A few examples were rattled off to me last night -- getting a job after school, coming to terms with family, etc. -- but a lot of these felt too large in scale. Plus, possible goals for my own characters are such that I'm not certain how they would be accomplished. Becoming a better leader? I don't know how to do that.

I'm afraid this may be horribly disjointed, but I hope you'll bear with me, as I'm kind of in a rush. :| Umm... that's about it.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (May 31, 2008)

What did this person define character growth as instead?


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## Dauby (Jun 1, 2008)

Character growth is from experience. It doesn't have to be dramatic by any means, although it helps make things a lot more noticeable. 

Also, just because something is "dramatic" does not mean that it has to be negative. Extremely good things happening to someone is usually bound to change something in their life and how they react to this or that. 

Really, it's hard to explain. In basic terms, dramatic events are probably the easiest way to change a character; however, going deeper, one has to consider the intensity of the happening and how it would touch (since characters are individuals and thus have varying reactions) the person that it happened to.


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## TakeWalker (Jun 1, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> What did this person define character growth as instead?



Movement towards fulfillment of goals. It was 1 AM in a time zone I'm not used to, while doing laundry. My recollection may not be the clearest.



Dauby said:


> Character growth is from experience. It doesn't have to be dramatic by any means, although it helps make things a lot more noticeable.
> 
> Also, just because something is "dramatic" does not mean that it has to be negative. Extremely good things happening to someone is usually bound to change something in their life and how they react to this or that.
> 
> Really, it's hard to explain. In basic terms, dramatic events are probably the easiest way to change a character; however, going deeper, one has to consider the intensity of the happening and how it would touch (since characters are individuals and thus have varying reactions) the person that it happened to.



Yeah, intensity was something brought up, and that I seem to be overdoing it. <.< I'd hate to give an example, in case someone might on the off chance be following my story as well as checking up here, but... I mean, killing off a main character. Is that too much? It has effects on the characters for the rest of the story, it's something I'm considering, but I'm really having second thoughts about it now. I need to come to a conclusion soon (relatively speaking), as the outcome of that decision could change how I approach the story from about halfway through.


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## Dauby (Jun 1, 2008)

Yowza, killing off someone is a pretty big leap, indeed. But, it's all about the plot in that sort of thing. Is it integral for this person to die in order to set the tone for the rest of the story? Is there no other way that the characters that you hope to impact could be affected as they need to be without offing this one?

If you're asking for suggestions on what that might be, though, then I'd have to know where you are and where yer going. :> Really, though, unless it makes sense that this person gets killed off and yer plot calls for it, I'd think long and hard before you did it (unless you don't care that much about his/her fate compared to the rest ;?3).


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## Kindar (Jun 1, 2008)

TakeWalker said:


> When is drama too much? Is there a line at which you're doing nothing but torturing characters?



as a reader drama is "too much" when it's no longer entertaining to read about it. That basically mean that you can fill an entire book wiht it and as long as you're able to get a reaction out of me I'll continue reading, but the moment I 'here we go again' the odds are I'll stop reading.

Character growth doesn't require Drama to happen, it's simply the easiest way to do it. it's easier to have a character change after getting beaten up due to that flaw then have him come to an epiphany after reading a threatise or some such.


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## kitreshawn (Jun 1, 2008)

"Character Growth" is a bad word for it.  I prefer calling it Character Development.

Your friend is both correct and wrong in a sense when he says that "Character Growth" is not overcoming obstacles.  If he is talking about stuff like having bad things happen and getting past it, he is correct.  However not all obstacles are that type.

There are internal problems just as much as external ones.  Sometimes the greatest thing a good character needs to overcome is their own doubts or some sort of character flaw.  These are obstacles just as much as trying to fight a bad guy, and can in fact be even more powerful to defeat.  In that sense all "character growth" results from overcoming obstacles.

Another thing to realize that a character develops regardless of if goals are achieved.  Sometimes good guys lose, and sometimes they lose really badly.  This is bound to have some sort of consequence in their personality and outlook on life.  The character has thus developed from what he was previously.  Also there are times when a character's goals are not fulfilled but they still win (as in the possibility that they may have abandoned a goal in the case of a greater cause).  Again this results in the character developing.  Even if a character does not have a true goal in mind the events that happen around them will undoubtedly change them in some way if the story is going to be good.

Character Development merely means that who the character is now is different from who he was.  Drama is bound to do that.

Now it IS possible to heap it on too thickly.  If at every turn bad things happen (car runs over his mom, loses his job, arm gets cut off, finds out he has cancer and HIV, then loses his house in a fire) the effect quickly becomes comical and unbelievable.  That said, killing a character even if it is not strictly needed to make the story move forward is certainly plausible and a way that forces the protagonist to cope (and therefore develop).  Sometimes people die, and sometimes there is no reason to it.  It is a fact and something everyone must eventually deal with, why not protagonist?


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jun 1, 2008)

This is an interesting subject because personally, I enjoy torturing characters and I have a hard time drawing the line between angst and wangst.


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## TakeWalker (Jun 2, 2008)

I think one other thing I need to keep in mind is that what I do in my RP project, while I'm trying to use it as a means of experimentation with character, does not in any way affect what's going on in my main project. If I'm being too dramatic in the RP, that doesn't mean I can't still have drama in my writing.  Your words have all been very helpful, I'm feeling more confident about my real writing, at least, so thank you all!


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