# Knowing when your ideas are bad



## TakeWalker (Jun 4, 2011)

This is somewhat tangential to the "Judging your writing" thread, I think, so I wanted to start up a new one. This is less about judging your execution and more...

How can you tell when the entire basis of a piece of writing is just bad? When, regardless of your writing skill, your idea is unsound, cheesy, self-satisfying or otherwise just... crap.

I've kind of gotten into this paranoid state of self-doubt where I feel like all my ideas are crap, but honestly, I don't know how to really know that. Can you? Please discuss, do not let me make this about me.


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## Conker (Jun 5, 2011)

I've gotten into the (good I think) habit of doing outlines of my stories and character sketches before I start. I never did this until recently.

So, if I can't make shit make sense in the outline or character sketches, ti's a bad idea. Since I don't have a teacher telling me "THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE" I have to do it, and I'm pretty good at figuring out how awful certain ideas are. I had a story totally planned out the other day until I really thought about it. Now I need to fix about ten plot details before I can start; shit just doesn't add up.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jun 5, 2011)

Happened when I attempted to write my novel.

Things just didn't seem realistic enough, certain characters weren't really fleshed out.

It's like I had an idea that was just a few cards short of a hand and it's just gotten to the point that I haven't touched it in a long time.

I just move on and work on other stuff instead off trying to completely rewrite a story I was trying to develop when I was 15.


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## M. LeRenard (Jun 5, 2011)

I don't really think ideas are ever 'bad'.  It's more about execution.  Less about how good an idea is and more about are you pulling it off the way you intended to.
Really, all I can tell you is to practice giving critiques, and to read critiques given by other people.  That's probably the best way you can figure out how to analyze your own work.  Because critiquing other peoples' stuff is easy, right?  You've got all these channels online now dedicated to video critiques of movies and games and shit, so obviously anyone with 1/10 of a brain can do it.  And there's ample opportunity for practice: see up there, that section of these forums with Critique in the title?  And you can get an account on CritiqueCircle, critique things publicly on LiveJournal, whatever.
The point is to practice on other peoples' stuff first, and then apply what you've learned to your own writing.  If you think there's a filter because it's yours, just shut it off.  Pretend like your grandma wrote it.  That's not something to really worry about, because there's only so much you can do by yourself anyway.


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## reian (Jun 5, 2011)

'Bad' ideas are typically when I get to a point and just can't write anymore...But like Renard said, it is probably just more of execution


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## TakeWalker (Jun 5, 2011)

M. Le Renard said:


> If you think there's a filter because it's yours, just shut it off.  Pretend like your grandma wrote it.  That's not something to really worry about, because there's only so much you can do by yourself anyway.


 
I guess I need to learn how to do that. Of course, I get really excited about others' writing too, when it's exciting enough...


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## M. LeRenard (Jun 5, 2011)

To me, it just falls under the same thing I talked about in that "making characters" thread I recently posted.  You'll always have a bias, because it's your work, but you can still find ways to work around that.  You can't get rid of that bias, because your brain doesn't work that way, but you can figure out how to trick it.  The brain's easy to trick.


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## Shouden (Jun 6, 2011)

Renard is right. I've had some great ideas, but when I go to execute them...Well, I hate the execution. It's either lame or cheesy or stupid or...(It happens)...the plot is WAY to complicated. If you have to use more than a sentence to explain the plot, then it's too complicated. This why I haven't started on a couple novels 'cause I'm not entirely sure how to execute the idea. And there's a couple series I've started a few times, but just can't get an idea that works.

Outlines help. They help a LOT. They let you know how the story is supposed to go. However, Outlines can change. There are rough drafts of stores and there are rough outlines to go with those rough drafts.

I the first chapter or so of Cityscape because I didn't have my main character's personality finalized. That outline would have changed a few times.

A lot of time, for me, the idea is good, but the execution sucks. But, also, every once and a while, I'll come up with an idea where, I'll write out the preview and hate it.


That's another thing to practice. Write a preview for your novel or story or series. If you can't write one that makes you want to read it, then, no one else will want to read it, either.


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## sunandshadow (Jun 6, 2011)

I think taste is relative and varies a lot between individuals.  If you like an idea, it's a good idea for you, even if someone else thinks it's crap or insane or whatever.  Basically, if you would enjoy reading it had someone else written it, it's good enough, quit worrying and write it.


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## Belluavir (Jun 17, 2011)

For me a "bad" idea comes in two forms.

1. Writing for glory rather than pleasure or fulfillment. I too am a member of the "Tried to Write a Novel When I Was Fifteen" club. I basically had no plot and no clue what I was doing. I was mainly writing it in a vain hope to be perceived as being valuable. You could say though, that I didn't actually have an idea to begin with.

2. I simply can't write it. Along the same lines of what most people have been saying here. I've come up with a great idea for Harry Potter fan fiction but I've put it off for over a year now because I have no fucking idea how the hell I'd actually pull it off.


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## deltroon1986 (Jun 17, 2011)

I know exactly how everyone feels. A few months back I want to try a mature story/roleplay hybrid kind of thing. I had everything I needed character profiles, a theme & a set of guidelines that help me make progress on it. Sadly after three months of steady work it didn't feel like it was panning out the way I hoped it would. So I deleted the story & the guideline but I didn't have the heart to delete the profiles. I had a feeling they might have a future use. Though I'm not exactly sure if I'll ever find out what that purpose is. I do feel that someone could find a better use for them than I could. You can find them here if anyone is curious. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5923902

If anyone has any suggestions for what I can do with them I'd greatly appreciate it. Please keep in mind five of them have detailed descriptions just to let you know ahead of time.


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## rsromasoma (Jun 17, 2011)

Hmm. I can't really remember too well about my past experiences with writing, but they have been horrid.


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## ScottyDM (Jun 19, 2011)

As several pointed out, character sketches and plot synopses can be huge when evaluating if your story idea might have legs. But what is your idea?

What is the core idea from which your story will flow?

Can you state your core idea as a single sentence? (Could be a log line, a one-sentence synopsis, or a premise sentence)

Can you state your core idea in only a word or two? (What Bill Johnson calls the story's promise)

It's tough, and I haven't done it for everyone of my current works in progress, but if you can manage it, you will instantly see if your idea is worth pursuing.


Let me give an example. _Dream a Little Dream_ is a story I've been struggling with because it's supposed to be an emotional piece set in a complex storyworld that I'm trying to pack into the space of a novella.

*One Sentence Synopsis: After his high school graduation a teenage humanoid fox must give up his addiction to virtual reality, his fantasy girl, and his home--and embrace the realities of adulthood.* Okay, interesting, but what do I focus on to make this an awesome story? The vulpine society in my storyworld is matrilineal. That is, the vixen controls the property and inheritance is from mother to daughter. My MC is living at home with his single mom and now that he's graduated from high school, society demands he move out and make a way for himself. To compound his problem, he's wasted the last two years falling in love with an AI (the fantasy girl). He is completely unprepared for adulthood.

At first I thought my *story's Promise* was: *Growing Up*. But when thinking about a scene between my MC and his virtual girlfriend's creator, I started to get into the creator's motivation. Maintaining a true AI is expensive. She pumps up the power bill and her growing database of experiences means an ever-expanding demand for storage. He loves his creation and thinks of her as a daughter. She's of the age that a mate is appropriate, but there's no way he can afford to create another AI for her. Since the MC is in love with his creation and had talked about marrying her, this fellow sees the MC as the perfect solution. Therefore the girl's creator becomes the drug pusher, trying to keep the MC hooked. I realized *the story's real Promise: Breaking Addiction*

When it comes to virtual reality I see the uncertain boundary between fantasy and reality as a rich ground for stories. And so this is *the story's Theme: In virtual reality, exactly where does virtual end and reality begin?*

The dream-like nature of VR and of falling in love, especially if the girl isn't real, captivated my imagination. How terrible to one day wake up and discover you've wasted the last several years of your life. Thus *the story's Premise: When you live from dream to dream you will fear the day when dreams must end.* From the first line my MC _knows_ he must break up with his virtual lover, but he's weak. How can he tell her no? And how can he resist her "father" (her creator), who wants the boy to marry his creation?

Finally, is my storyworld. In the story's middle section the MC has a dream, where his subconscious works through some of his issues and he comes to a conclusion. The story starts in VR, slips into the dream, briefly pops back into VR, then the MC steps through a door and into reality--but a reality nothing like human society. Thus *the Storyworld: A dream, wrapped in a virtual fantasy, wrapped in an alternate reality.*

I do have a longer plot synopsis, but I've come to realize it's flawed. It doesn't serve the basic story idea. I'm missing a satisfying end, and I've got scenes I don't need. When I jump back into my story the first thing I'll need to do is have a good long think about the sequence of events, and even what events I need.

So, as I look over the bold text above, I feel this is a worthwhile story idea. The trick (as several have stated) is the execution. By having worked through the basics of my idea--and recorded those basics--I have something to focus on. 'Cause man oh man, I'll fly off on some wild tangent if I don't stay focused.


*The point is, figure out the basics of your core idea.*

S~


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