# Modem Help



## RobbFoxX (Sep 6, 2009)

I need help with my modem. It keeps reseting itself randomly. I don't know why.


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## Milenko Foulcraze (Sep 6, 2009)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=my+modem+keeps+resetting

Whats your specs? Network card, modem, ISP n such


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

What sort of modem is it?


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## RobbFoxX (Sep 6, 2009)

An Embarq 660 series


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## Milenko Foulcraze (Sep 6, 2009)

I am going to assume you took the time to unblug everything and plug it all back in. 99% of the time that works.

What kinda Network Hardware you got? i had some compatability issues. I had to end up buying me a whole new one.


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## RobbFoxX (Sep 6, 2009)

I yea already did. I dont even care anymore itz not my modem anyway lol


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

The modem is a rebranded ZyXel DSL modem, right?  If it happens more frequently, it could be failing and will need to be replaced.  2Wire is a decent modem brand.

Edit: If you're leasing it from your ISP, call them and have them ship you a replacement.  You shouldn't even need to pay shipping, but double-check first.


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## RobbFoxX (Sep 6, 2009)

No I found out what was wrong. It kept resetting because there where multiple sources all using the same modem and router. I just turned a few things off and now it works fine. Or maybe it was one of the things I turned off that was the problem ? Either way it's workn now. Nice avatar btw


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

Glad to hear it.

The av is one that I commissioned from Toast for use on Furcadia.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 6, 2009)

What the hell kinda solution is that?  That shouldn't be a problem in the first place!


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## RobbFoxX (Sep 6, 2009)

How come you have to respond to everything so negatively ?


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 6, 2009)

Because 'I should use the modem less, that will stop it from resetting itself' shouldn't be the solution.  That's not the solution, that's just avoiding the problem.  The modem shouldn't be crashing and rebooting just because it has a router with multiple clients on it.


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## Milenko Foulcraze (Sep 6, 2009)

thats horrible


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

Unfortunately, Ashley is right.  Modems shouldn't behave in that way, and if they do without any configuration changes, it's a sign they're on their way out.  (My eyes glossed over worse than I realized when I read that response.)

My home's ISP issued me a VisionNet modem about four years ago (at a steep price, too), and it was so crappy that in less than a year just using a SIP phone would lock it up hard.  The only solution was a replacement.

I had a customer come to my ISP from Earthlink DSL with her ZyXel modem, and less than a year later it had to be replaced.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 6, 2009)

Though I do wonder if it's even his modem that's crashing and rebooting.  That seems to more likely the router.  I have seen some routers that have crappy firmware that'd even crash on BitTorrent or eMule usage.  *Eyes the DI-214+ sitting on a shelf in the closet*


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

If the router is a separate device, aye, it must be either isolated or eliminated as a possible cause.  I had some trouble finding accurate information on whether the 660 series has one ethernet port or four.


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## RobbFoxX (Sep 6, 2009)

Only one


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

Next time it happens, restart the router but not the modem and see if that makes the problem go away.  If so, suspect the router.

The time after next that it happens, restart the modem but not the router and see if that makes the problem go away.  If so, suspect the modem.

I'm out of troubleshooting ideas that don't involve buying any devices.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 6, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I'm out of troubleshooting ideas that don't involve buying any devices.


 
If it is the modem it's likely a rental from the ISP and can oftne be replaced free of charge if it's problematic.  If it's your router, yeah, that's all on you.


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## ToeClaws (Sep 6, 2009)

Hmm... well, back a few years ago I had a DSL line, and though it worked okay for a while, it began to get unstable.  I thought it was the modem at first, so I replaced it (I had several spares), but no replacement made any difference.  Thought it might the router, replaced that, no difference.  Turned out that it was the phone line becoming unstable.  Since I didn't get my Net through the phone company, they wouldn't come test it because "voice worked fine".   So in my case, I had to switch to cable.


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

I've only twice ever seen telco-side failures that would need modems to be physically reset.  One was a few weeks before the modem failed completely, and the other was a still-unexplained mass bricking incident across the telco's entire 13-state service area back in April.

(In the mass bricking case, it affected all DSL ISPs in all of the telco's LATAs [but only the one telco's LATAs], and although it was a small fraction of modems, it was still hundreds, maybe thousands, and they needed firmware reloads to be unbricked.)


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## Ash-Fox (Sep 6, 2009)

What does your eventlog or syslog say?


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## Runefox (Sep 6, 2009)

It definitely sounds like the modem is on the way out if it's dying when extra load is placed on it. Call your ISP and tell them about it. Get a new one, if you're paying the monthly rental fee, they'll be out to replace it free of charge. If you bought it up front, then... Well, here's hoping you got some good usage out of it over time to justify the up-front cost vs the monthly rental fee. It's one of the main advantages to actually renting your modem - Need a new one? Yeah, it's free of charge. ISP upgrading its service and the old one's incompatible? Free upgrade! Not so when you purchase the modem outright. It's sort of a gamble.


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## Carenath (Sep 6, 2009)

RobbFoxX said:


> No I found out what was wrong. It kept resetting because there where multiple sources all using the same modem and router. I just turned a few things off and now it works fine. Or maybe it was one of the things I turned off that was the problem ? Either way it's workn now. Nice avatar btw


Sounds rather like the issue that befell my WRT54G..
It would crash and reboot, if you used an application like Limewire or BitTorrent. The reason for the crashes, Linksys attemps to stop users installing custom firmware. Linksys reduced the amount of RAM on board, and there simply wasnt enough RAM to hold the conntrack table. BitTorrent and Limewire opened up so many connections, the router would die when it ran out of memory.



AshleyAshes said:


> Because 'I should use the modem less, that will stop it from resetting itself' shouldn't be the solution.  That's not the solution, that's just avoiding the problem.  The modem shouldn't be crashing and rebooting just because it has a router with multiple clients on it.


I doubt it's the modem, Zyxel's also tend to be pretty solid, especially if you use them as a modem and just a modem, not a modem-router.



ArielMT said:


> I had a customer come to my ISP from Earthlink DSL with her ZyXel modem, and less than a year later it had to be replaced.


My first modem, was a Zyxel, rock solid, behaved like a proper enterprise-grade unit. The wireless router I used with it, was a complete piece of shit that rebooted anytime I used MSN on the desktop. The one I replaced it with, was even worse, rebooted if I tried using UPnP or BitTorrent. The one I replaced that with, has been rock-solid.

Best method I have found for DSL setups, put the modem in bridged mode, get a decent wireless router and use the router to 'dial' the DSL connection treating the modem as a dumb device.

Also, 2Wire modems are pretty lousey, their wireless is horrible too.


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## ArielMT (Sep 6, 2009)

I have a 2Wire 2700 HG that's been serving me faithfully on wireless for more than three years.

It just seems too much like a crap shoot anymore: The same company can make good models and bad models, and the consumer can't know the difference except from hearsay.  I'd draw a car analogy, Chevrolet for example, but at least consumers can tell the difference in quality between a Chevette and a Corvette.


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## Carenath (Sep 6, 2009)

@ArielMT: All I can say is the units AT&T use for VDSL are awful. 10-minute sync times + Unreliable wireless (it could sometimes just die for no reason forcing a reset, and you got about 1/3 of the bandwidth over the wireless link versus wired).

As you said though, sometimes companies just have a bad model.. Linksys first gen WRT54G's were pretty solid, but the later revisions that used VxWorks and had less RAM.. are about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 6, 2009)

Carenath said:


> Sounds rather like the issue that befell my WRT54G..
> It would crash and reboot, if you used an application like Limewire or BitTorrent. The reason for the crashes, Linksys attemps to stop users installing custom firmware. Linksys reduced the amount of RAM on board, and there simply wasnt enough RAM to hold the conntrack table. BitTorrent and Limewire opened up so many connections, the router would die when it ran out of memory.


 
Well I hardly doubt that Linksys is trying to keep people from using custom firmware on their routers. They actually specificly sell and market a version with the WRT54G with the v1 specs, it's branded as the WRT54GL (L for Linux) and it ships with the Linux based firmware as opposed to VxWorks that they use on later models. I have one and dumped DDWRT on it no problem. 



Carenath said:


> My first modem, was a Zyxel, rock solid, behaved like a proper enterprise-grade unit.


 
What do you mean 'Enterprise grade'? You mean you plugged it in, set it up and it worked without intervention or problems? Cause that's not enterprise grade, that's just how a modem is supposed to work normally. There is something seriously wrong with the world when 'Works like it's supposed to' is the qualification for 'enterprise grade'.


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## Carenath (Sep 6, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Well I hardly doubt that Linksys is trying to keep people from using custom firmware on their routers. They actually specificly sell and market a version with the WRT54G with the v1 specs, it's branded as the WRT54GL (L for Linux) and it ships with the Linux based firmware as opposed to VxWorks that they use on later models. I have one and dumped DDWRT on it no problem.
> 
> What do you mean 'Enterprise grade'? You mean you plugged it in, set it up and it worked without intervention or problems? Cause that's not enterprise grade, that's just how a modem is supposed to work normally. There is something seriously wrong with the world when 'Works like it's supposed to' is the qualification for 'enterprise grade'.


Linksys's reason was to reduce costs, but I don't believe that was their real reason. I think the real motivation was to stop people turning $60 routers into $600 ones by adding enterprise features like RADIUS Authentication and Captive Portals (and perhaps a proper firewall).
They didnt release the L version right away either, which they could have when they made the switch to VxWorks, but they didn't.

And 'enterprise grade' as in better than el-cheapo consumer hardware.
My first modem, rock-solid worked great, never gave any issues, never needed to be reset or unplugged. I just plugged it in, and forgot about it.
My second (and spare) modem that I got after switching ISP's... worked, but it never worked well and it was never reliable. I had to reset it numerous times, and I ended up switching back to the old one which worked a lot better.

My experiences have thought me, that consumer-grade hardware, although in most cases it works, isnt generally that reliable.
Its comparing Windows 98 to Windows 2000.

Also "There is something seriously wrong with the world when 'Works like it's supposed to' is the qualification for 'enterprise grade'." Welcome to Capitalism.


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## AshleyAshes (Sep 6, 2009)

Carenath said:


> They didnt release the L version right away either, which they could have when they made the switch to VxWorks, but they didn't.


 
The WRT54G v5 (First version with reduced specs for cost reasons) was released at the end of 2005 the WRT54GL v1 (Rebadged WRT54G v4) was also released at the end of 2005. So there was no real discontinuation of the Linux shipping 16mb models. The only issue being that a lot of big box retailers wouldn't stock WRT54G and also WRT54GLs. I know when I got my WRT54GL in 2007 I had to go to a local computer store rather than a big box store. Still, it was only $80 CAD and is a great value.



Carenath said:


> And 'enterprise grade' as in better than el-cheapo consumer hardware.


 
Agian, 'Working correctly, like it should' shouldn't be the definition of 'enterprise grade'. While there are consumer electronics that are complete shit, there are consumer electronics that are rock solid without 'enterprise grade'. I'm sorry but no one should be using the definition of 'enterprise grade' to define something as 'not being a terrible piece of shit'.

My cable modem never needs to be reset, it just sits there and chugs along happily without user interference. That's not it being 'Enterprise grade' that's it 'DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING'.


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## Rel (Sep 6, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I have a 2Wire 2700 HG that's been serving me faithfully on wireless for more than three years.
> 
> It just seems too much like a crap shoot anymore: The same company can make good models and bad models, and the consumer can't know the difference except from hearsay.  I'd draw a car analogy, Chevrolet for example, but at least consumers can tell the difference in quality between a Chevette and a Corvette.


Yeah, ive had my 2wire modem for years now and it works beautifully. Ive never had a problem with it.


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## Milenko Foulcraze (Sep 6, 2009)

Its always nice to have money


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## Carenath (Sep 8, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Agian, 'Working correctly, like it should' shouldn't be the definition of 'enterprise grade'. While there are consumer electronics that are complete shit, there are consumer electronics that are rock solid without 'enterprise grade'. I'm sorry but no one should be using the definition of 'enterprise grade' to define something as 'not being a terrible piece of shit'.
> 
> My cable modem never needs to be reset, it just sits there and chugs along happily without user interference. That's not it being 'Enterprise grade' that's it 'DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING'.


In an ideal world, 'working correctly, like it should' would be the norm for every piece of hardware you buy, but this isnt an ideal world.

There is a good reason why business-grade/enterprise-grade hardware is more expensive and better than their consumer-grade counterparts, even for comparable specs. Cost-Cutting and other measures to keep consumer-grade hardware at a certain price-point so you can sell enough units to make a profit, mean consumer-grade/soho gear just isnt as good as their business-grade counterparts.
Like I said, it is like comparing Windows 98 to Windows 2000 (or even Windows XP Home to Windows Server 2003).

I never said my modem was enterprise-grade, I said it worked like an enterprise-grade unit, a euphemism for saying it was an excellent piece of kit that exceeded my expectations for typical consumer-grade hardware which in my unfortunate experiences never last as long as it did, without giving some kind of a problem. There are exceptions to every rule, and some consumer-level hardware is pretty good (the Netgear WNR834B router springs to mind). At the same time though, it still goes without saying, you get what you pay for.

To the OP, do tell is if you have had any luck with your modem/router.


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