# Summer Update + UI Status



## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

Greetings all,

I figured I'd stop in to give you all an update on things: We're still working on our Summer Update, but at this point we're behind schedule. We know - not a huge surprise, right? That said, the Summer Update (yes, that's what we're calling it now) is still being worked on, and we're aiming to roll this out over the course of this Summer, starting with an open beta.

We're still waiting on a few things to fall in line before we open it up to the public.

The update is taking longer than anticipated due to several reasons. For starters, it's not _just _a new UI. We could easily roll that out by itself, but we want substance and enhanced functionality. Something more than just revised CSS. That substance comes in the form of coding fixes, usability tweaks, an enhanced commenting system, revising the upload process (incl. completely revising categories, species lists, tagging, gallery folders, etc) as well as small things users have requested (such as +faving journals), better journals and more features over all.. We're focusing on issues that people have long since found frustrating.

It's been a long time coming and is a long time overdue. We're hoping to be able to announce a live beta date soon, but we want to do this right. Not rush into things.

That said, it will be this Summer, and it will be huge.

Thanks,
Dragoneer


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## lolcox (Jun 30, 2011)

Answer two things for me, if you would:

1: Will there be a higher contrast version of this thing that you're rolling out? A lot of that stuff blends together like so much eye pudding.
2: Will the HTML be well commented, with classes and/or IDs on elements presented so that people who have to write their own styles to meet their visual needs can have all the hooks they want without having to bang out xpaths for everything?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

lolcox said:


> Answer two things for me, if you would:
> 
> 1: Will there be a higher contrast version of this thing that you're rolling out? A lot of that stuff blends together like so much eye pudding.
> 2: Will the HTML be well commented, with classes and/or IDs on elements presented so that people who have to write their own styles to meet their visual needs can have all the hooks they want without having to bang out xpaths for everything?


1) The colors aren't 100% final (much like the footer - I keep tweaking them quite a bit). Once we have the update in place we'll tweak the colors to make them a little less depressing and give some proper contracts (and eventually a light/dark variant, perhaps some themed versions).
2) That I don't have a good answer to at this moment. So, I'll go with "I don't know off hand."


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## drurowin (Jun 30, 2011)

When you rolled out the last UI update recently, I saw for a split second before refreshing the page a "User Online" icon... Was I imagining things, or is that being added in this update?


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 30, 2011)

Is there a way you can make a version colorblind can see with no problem? I know if a theme layout is done I am not going to be able to read some people's profiles if they use weird colors.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

drurowin said:


> When you rolled out the last UI update recently, I saw for a split second before refreshing the page a "User Online" icon... Was I imagining things, or is that being added in this update?


Probably, yes, thought it won't update in real time, but every x seconds or so (just for performance reasons). Right now, all admins on FA have that "Users Online" tab, and we can see everybody who's logged in. For me, it looks like:
*8272 Users online â€” 6589 registered and 1683 guests*



dinosaurdammit said:


> Is there a way you can make a version  colorblind can see with no problem? I know if a theme layout is done I  am not going to be able to read some people's profiles if they use weird  colors.


I'd like to see us implement a "disable color tag" option in the Control Panel. Some people use colors nicely. Some people vomit colors. Personally, I am not a fan of people who abuse colors to the point it looks like a clown was stabbed and left to die on their page*. Rainbow is not an appealing palette choice.

* This is my own personal opinion. FA, as a site and a community, does not endorse clown murder.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 30, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Personally, I'd like to see us implement a "disable color tag" option in the Control Panel. Some people use colors nicely. Some people vomit colors. Personally, I am not a fan of people who abuse colors to the point it looks like a clown was stabbed and left to die on their page*. Rainbow is not an appealing palette choice.
> 
> * This is my own personal opinion. FA, as a site and a community, does not endorse clown murder.


 
I will hug you if you do this :3


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## Kajet (Jun 30, 2011)

Reminds me of inkbunny... and no that is not a particularly good thing.

And a version for mobile phones would be nice.


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## Smelge (Jun 30, 2011)

When your new version inevitably gets hacked/broken into/etc, are you going to ignore it or try and fix the issues that cause breaches as soon as they happen, rather than ignore them for long periods of time.


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## Alstor (Jun 30, 2011)

Did you already show a demo of this that wasn't at FA:U, or am I thinking of a rumor?

If not, could you provide a video demo for the site for Youtube or something. The way I see it, it's like seeing screenshots of a future film/video game/other type of media and watching a trailer of it.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

Alstor said:


> Did you already show a demo of this that wasn't at FA:U, or am I thinking of a rumor?
> 
> If not, could you provide a video demo for the site for Youtube or something. The way I see it, it's like seeing screenshots of a future film/video game/other type of media and watching a trailer of it.


 We showed a live version of the UI at FA United. A good chunk of everything is coded and working fine. =3


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## drurowin (Jun 30, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Personally, I'd like to see us implement a "disable color tag" option in the Control Panel. Some people use colors nicely. Some people vomit colors. Personally, I am not a fan of people who abuse colors to the point it looks like a clown was stabbed and left to die on their page*. Rainbow is not an appealing palette choice.
> 
> * This is my own personal opinion. FA, as a site and a community, does not endorse clown murder.


 
While I don't have vision problems, sometimes the color mess makes pages _VERY_ hard to read. I would appreciate the option.


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## drurowin (Jun 30, 2011)

Oh... one more question, and I promise I'll leave! Right now, you either have no mature art and it vanishes off the face of the site, or you do enable mature art and everything that you could ever dream of in your nightmares appears. Will there be a more sane way of doing this? There are three levels of maturity, there should be at least three options (general only, general+mature, everything).

There isn't even a sane way of using scripting to blank it out, at least that I could see on the front page. Expanding the options would be great.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

drurowin said:


> Oh... one more question, and I promise I'll leave! Right now, you either have no mature art and it vanishes off the face of the site, or you do enable mature art and everything that you could ever dream of in your nightmares appears. Will there be a more sane way of doing this? There are three levels of maturity, there should be at least three options (general only, general+mature, everything).
> 
> There isn't even a sane way of using scripting to blank it out, at least that I could see on the front page. Expanding the options would be great.


I want to fix this, yes. I find it incredibly aggravating.


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## drurowin (Jun 30, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I want to fix this, yes. I find it incredibly aggravating.


 
Thanks, and best of luck with the new UI and everything!


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## Xenke (Jun 30, 2011)

'Neer, lately I've heard some people say they're concerned about the branding of the site, namely the fact that the mainsite's "logo" (the part that says "Fur Affinity") is inconsistent between each new banner. I also notice that it appears that this logo in this new UI seems to be layered over an image.

My questions are this: Are you planning on keeping a regular logo, even if you plan to have different artists make the banner every month?

The other thing I've heard around is that some people would like the 'F' part of the tail logo to be more obvious.

And I'm also going to have to echo other people's concerns that the layout colors are too muddy.


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## Summercat (Jun 30, 2011)

I am Summercat and I approve the name of this update.

For the record, while I'm not happy* with the new visual update, it also does not fill me with rage, so I guess that's good?

*I'm very *very* conservative** about changes in how things look. I refuse to use DA for this reason now.

**Considering I made the Summerchimera, mileage may vary.


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## yobutt5 (Jun 30, 2011)

I do remember this template design from a year and a half ago ^_^ And i remember it being showcased at http://preyfar.furaffinity.net/template/. 

Quick question. Is this build on the Ferrox code, that's sat around for quite a bit, or did y'all hire a graphic designer like you'd mentioned?


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## Croc_Takayama (Jun 30, 2011)

Not bad. I could get used to the look, but I have two questions.

1. From what I'm seeing in the screencap, both the favorites and watchers notice are together. I personally prefer it where everything is separate. i.e; 2 watches, 54 favorites, 3 submissions, 6 journals, 1 note. To me, that's more organized than bunching them together like it's showing in the image. Will they be fixing that so it looks like that instead?

2. I'm quite positive not everyone will like the new UI, will there be an option to switch from the old and new?


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## thoron (Jun 30, 2011)

Will the new layout stretch to fill out wider screens? I really hate it when theres just a collum in the middle of a wide screen and everything to either side serves no perpose. Also, will there be a skin option where I can switch to the old lay out if we find that this new version isn't to my liking?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

Xenke said:


> 'Neer, lately I've heard some people say they're concerned about the branding of the site, namely the fact that the mainsite's "logo" (the part that says "Fur Affinity") is inconsistent between each new banner. I also notice that it appears that this logo in this new UI seems to be layered over an image.
> 
> My questions are this: Are you planning on keeping a regular logo, even if you plan to have different artists make the banner every month?
> 
> ...


The logo will undergo some revision to make it more apparent, but there will be a consistent logo/design for the final site. In addition, we're going to have much stricter guidelines for banners on the site. Emphasis on quality.

Also, the colors will change through the design process. It's very easy to tweak colors once we have everything built.



yobutt5 said:


> Is this build on the Ferrox code, that's sat around for quite a bit, or did y'all hire a graphic designer like you'd mentioned?


Ferrox has been abandoned. It was only ever a designation for the "next code update", but the plans to do a full recoding of the site are currently on ice. 

And we're getting some help from a graphic designer, and will pull on some additional coders in the near future as well. I have no ETAs on who/what/when.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

Croc_Takayama said:


> 1. From what I'm seeing in the screencap, both the favorites and watchers notice are together. I personally prefer it where everything is separate. i.e; 2 watches, 54 favorites, 3 submissions, 6 journals, 1 note. To me, that's more organized than bunching them together like it's showing in the image. Will they be fixing that so it looks like that instead?


Much of that will be fixed/tweaked by the time things are finalized.

One thing I want to fix is "favorite" notifications. They, frankly, irritate the hell out of me.

What we want to have happen is things like:
*19 new favorites on "Submission Name" (+)*

Then you click the (+) and it lists the names of people who favorited it as a group, not 19 individual notices. We'll be revisiting a lot of the way messaging and other stuff is done. It may not be radical changes, but things that make being on FA easier. 



Croc_Takayama said:


> 2. I'm quite positive not everyone will like the new UI, will there be an option to switch from the old and new?


Probably not. The site needs to move forward, and to incorporate all the changes going into the new UI we'd have to recode a lot of the current UI. While I'm well aware that some people are hesitant/resistant to change, to be honest if we continue to backpedal we'll never get to where we need to be. The new UI is mostly based on the existing UI, and stays true to it where possible. It make take some people a few days to adjust, but we're not talking sweeping changes.

Fur Affinity has a "feel" to it. We want to keep that feel, but remove the "meh". It can be done.



thoron said:


> Will the new layout stretch to fill out wider screens? I really hate it when theres just a collum in the middle of a wide screen and everything to either side serves no perpose.


 Yes. We may even given an option for "fixed" and "fluid" via the control panel. I don't know which will be the default (makes sense to keep it fluid as it is right now). However, when designing the UI we keep it on a standard fixed format because it's easier to keep consistent.


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## Dr. Durr (Jun 30, 2011)

Will this new update be Mobile-Friendly?


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## Croc_Takayama (Jun 30, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Much of that will be fixed/tweaked by the time things are finalized.
> 
> One thing I want to fix is "favorite" notifications. They, frankly, irritate the hell out of me.
> 
> ...



That actually sounds even better. Alright, sweet.




Dragoneer said:


> Probably not. The site needs to move forward, and to incorporate all the changes going into the new UI we'd have to recode a lot of the current UI. While I'm well aware that some people are hesitant/resistant to change, to be honest if we continue to backpedal we'll never get to where we need to be. The new UI is mostly based on the existing UI, and stays true to it where possible. It make take some people a few days to adjust, but we're not talking sweeping changes.
> 
> Fur Affinity has a "feel" to it. We want to keep that feel, but remove the "meh". It can be done.



Fair enough. Either way, I look forward to the new change.


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## yobutt5 (Jun 30, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Ferrox has been abandoned. It was only ever a designation for the "next code update", but the plans to do a full recoding of the site are currently on ice.
> 
> And we're getting some help from a graphic designer, and will pull on some additional coders in the near future as well. I have no ETAs on who/what/when.



And just now, i see my grammar flaw.. *facepaw*

I'm an _aspiring_ graphics designer, i know my way around CSS, most of the flavors of HTML, XML, and Javascript. By no means a proper portfolio, but i did cobble this together the other night. http://root.breakingspell.com/. Most of it in Flash, but this stuff is rather universal to me. I'd love to help out, or be on call or whatnot, i'm sure you have a waiting list out the door, but just thought i'd say =)


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## thoron (Jun 30, 2011)

> Yes. We may even given an option for "fixed" and "fluid" via the control panel. I don't know which will be the default (makes sense to keep it fluid as it is right now). However, when designing the UI we keep it on a standard fixed format because it's easier to keep consistent.


 
Thats awsome at least, thats been my biggest gripe against the new UI is not knowing if it could fill the screen or not. One other thing though, will there be an option between light and dark like in the current UI? The lighter version is easier on my eye's so I'm hoping that there will be a lighter skin.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 30, 2011)

Dr. Durr said:


> Will this new update be Mobile-Friendly?


 No. Once we handle the main site and can get all of that taken care of we will focus on a mobile friendly version.



thoron said:


> Thats awsome at least, thats been my biggest gripe  against the new UI is not knowing if it could fill the screen or not.  One other thing though, will there be an option between light and dark  like in the current UI? The lighter version is easier on my eye's so I'm  hoping that there will be a lighter skin.


 Eventually. Right now, we're working on just finishing the UI and other elements. We'll tweak colors as we go to make sure everybody's happy and satisfied to the best our ability. After that, we'll add other color themes that fit the light/dark motiff, as well as some retro color schema from FA's history.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

Will the species list finally be killed so we can have folks no longer demanding specific species to be added to said list, but instead have to manually type in their species.
Right now I have 3 groups I hope to see dead just cause of that list.

Also will there be cross sites features like how Furpaws have the feature to use FA's :iconUsername: on their site to show that the artist is on FA.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jul 1, 2011)

Will there be a report button? It is so much trouble to fill out a TT that it becomes rather a bother to do it. A report button would be so nice.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 1, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Will the species list finally be killed so we can have folks no longer demanding specific species to be added to said list.
> Right now I have 3 groups see die just cause of that list.


 The species list will eventually be replaced by tags, so if you add "wolf" it automatically tags "lupine wolven wolf wolves" or other variants. When we do this, we'll do an extensive list of species (and poke the community as well). Should also have a bunch of customizable tags, too.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> The species list will eventually be replaced by tags, so if you add "wolf" it automatically tags "lupine wolven wolf wolves" or other variants. When we do this, we'll do an extensive list of species (and poke the community as well). Should also have a bunch of customizable tags, too.


 so like how SoFurry have an extensive list of tags where users can add to it?
and about the second part of my question?


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## kayfox (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> We showed a live version of the UI at FA United. A good chunk of everything is coded and working fine. =3



So why is this going to take till September through Februrary to implement?


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## DagonarX (Jul 1, 2011)

Dr. Durr said:


> Will this new update be Mobile-Friendly?



I actually love the idea of a mobile app for viewing on a phone. But for now I'm just really happy about all this progress been made on the UI.

Also glad to hear the colors are not final. Are there going to be ways to customize the interface?


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## thoron (Jul 1, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Will the species list finally be killed so we can have folks no longer demanding specific species to be added to said list, but instead have to manually type in their species.
> Right now I have 3 groups I hope to see dead just cause of that list.
> 
> Also will there be cross sites features like how Furpaws have the feature to use FA's :iconUsername: on their site to show that the artist is on FA.


 
While I agree the species list should be done away with, the other portions of the current system I think should be kept around. I like the category, type, and gender lists, thier simple and they make if far easier to find art or stories. Though a keyword bar should replace the species list so if theres something more specific that your looking for with in a type or category you can do that.


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## Kittywitch (Jul 1, 2011)

Will the commissions information return? I miss having that information on the profile and not having to hunt through submissions/journals for said information


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

thoron said:


> While I agree the species list should be done away with, the other portions of the current system I think should be kept around. I like the category, type, and gender lists, thier simple and they make if far easier to find art or stories. Though a keyword bar should replace the species list so if theres something more specific that your looking for with in a type or category you can do that.


 SoFurry has the similar system where everything is manually added, only whats the rating was part of a list.


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## thoron (Jul 1, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> SoFurry has the similar system where everything is manually added, only whats the rating was part of a list.



I'd prefer to keep most of the drop down listings, the only one that should go is the species list, it has more to do with the fact that some users are too lazy to bother with keywords when submitting thier work.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

thoron said:


> I'd prefer to keep most of the drop down listings, the only one that should go is the species list, it has more to do with the fact that some users are too lazy to bother with keywords when submitting thier work.


 well even with the current system it relies on tagging and well I dont even tag any of my work nor do I do specifics but just what the gender of the characters


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## Aden (Jul 1, 2011)

What's the over/under on how long it will take the post-upgrade outrage to dimish to background levels? We should start a pool.


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## Edgewolf (Jul 1, 2011)

Man this ended up being a lot more than I came to type, 'scuse me dropping all my opinions and ideas at once! *TLR*, this looks absolutely awesome, some additional color/filter options would be nice and seeing a few more available links in the contact info section would be great. Read on for specifics haha.

Okay so let me say that this is pretty much exactly how I've wanted to see the site look and run for a while. I'm quite an ass when it comes to design and typography, but I love how this looks! The dark muted tones here are great. Having too much bright or overly saturated color burning my retinas after 9PM is incredibly irritating (farcebook). The font choices look more modern and streamlined, it definitely gives me the feel that it's a more well designed site, definitely professional (in the sense of the site design itself, not necessarily the content lol). Also, A+ FOR THE "READ MORE" ADDITION TO JOURNALS. I'm pretty long winded sometimes in my journals (made obvious by this post) and I don't want massive walls of text consuming my profile but at the same time I hate posting pointless smaller journals just to bump it off to clean my page up.

I like the idea of more than two themes, considering how much time people can spend on FA, how they're seeing it plays good part in the experience for most users. Potentially adding a customization option (only visible to you, not displayed on your page for everyone else to see) so you can view the site how you want would be nifty although I guess excessive (add a dark muted earth tone theme and a teal one and I'll be happy!). I also like the idea of disabling color coding since some people on FA just vomit every color possible in their profile, but would there be a way to filter specific users, perhaps some kind of viewing/filtering options on a user's profile page (or maybe a block list but just for "gratuitous color spew") so you can filter the users with a less than keen sense of color theory/moderation, and still be able to see it from the people that use it well? I don't want to completely shut down seeing all colors but there are users I'd rather not see it from. I realize that's a bit pedantic but it'd be nice! Speaking of filtering, being able to filter keywords in submissions would be great, AKA let me make Sonic fan art go away _forever_.

And some final things I'd like to mention, I know this is still in the works so you may already be planning this but I'd _definitely_ like to see link options in the Contact Info section for Tumblr (a *lot* of us are on there!), Livestream (a lot of us don't use/prefer ustream!) and Bandcamp/Soundcloud (many of us are musicians and a link specific to where a lot of us post our work would be *GREAT*! Pushing more towards BC than SC if it came down to picking only one). I'm not in any way being all like DUDE YOU HAVE TO DO ALL THIS, I DEMAND IT, just making some suggestions that in retrospect are a bit nitpicky. Awesome work so far Neer!


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## Xenke (Jul 1, 2011)

Aden said:


> What's the over/under on how long it will take the post-upgrade outrage to dimish to background levels? We should start a pool.


 
Three months.


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## thoron (Jul 1, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> well even with the current system it relies on tagging and well I dont even tag any of my work nor do I do specifics but just what the gender of the characters


 
What I'm saying is that there should still be some form of forced categorizion when submitting work beyond ratings, I like the dropdown lists because they have kept it simple, most of my searches are simple, I like being able to just click from a general list, and if theres something more specific then there should be a keyword box next to it.


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## SwooshyCueb (Jul 1, 2011)

I love the new UI, even with the current colors, though I have a few questions.
1. Will BBCode in URL tags parse now?
2. Will apostrophes still appear as ''' in URL tags?
3. Will there be any changes to the mood section of the profile info?
4. Will there be submission folders like on DA?
5. Will any other fields be added to the profile info? (Xfire, Livestream, last.fm, gender, sexual orientation &c.)


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## Captain Howdy (Jul 1, 2011)

Back end improvements - Yes!
UI update - No thanks!

 I still hope we're on track for keeping the current UI as an option with the back-end improvements when everything turns to that UI seen above. 

I also hope there's no 'connectivity' annoyances like twitter/facebook/etc. I hate niche' websites that do that, especially when the site itself is already a social experience.


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## Jaki-Kun (Jul 1, 2011)

On the topic of filtering out nightmare fuel/themes people don't like, couldn't a system be implemented so people can go into their Control Panel and uncheck the types of art they don't want to see? Considering everything is organized by theme, and that a system to filter out adult content for underage users already exists, I can't see it being an impossibility- I could understand if the code were tricky, though.

And how about the ability to categorize submissions as more than one theme? Two stories I'm working on right now both involve Transformation AND Pokemon as their main themes, and it stinks having to choose between them when I feel like the stories might appeal to either audience.


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## Garuru_Wolf (Jul 1, 2011)

Will there be an option to watch or not watch certain types of submissions (journals, scraps?). There are some people I watch who post amazing art, but they post the most pointless journals I've ever seen. XD 

Or more importantly, will there be some kind of option for "Streaming" notifications? It's gotten to the point where I'm deleting over 10 "HAY GUYS I'M STREAMING" journals a day, and a few of the artists I watch have even resorted to uploading the same picture and deleting it as a way of announcing they're streaming (or they stream all day long and announce that they're "still streaming" several times throughout the day). I'm not one to complain much but the amount of "streaming" submissions I'm getting every day is getting a little annoying. It would be nice if there was an alternate way for artists to announce that they're streaming and a way to NOT get those submissions in your inbox if you don't want to.


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## Devious Bane (Jul 1, 2011)

That UI screenshot looks like a ripoff between Inkbunny and SheezyArt(around 2005). Both sites I could give a rodent's backside for, and at this point I'm not really convinced there is an option being planned that trades that pile of dirt out with the current UI. It seems more like your goal has degraded to making the site look "pretty" instead of working better, and over 9000 exploits later we'll be back where we are now.

That being said, I'm totally in support of the update. It'll refuel everyone's disgust with the site and spawn more FA ripoffs like InkBunny, SoFurry, and so on. Maybe one of them will get it right and everyone will be happy, or it will just be more fodder for the kids back home to feed off of. Pick your candy.


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## Captain Howdy (Jul 1, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> That UI screenshot looks like a ripoff between Inkbunny and SheezyArt(around 2005). Both sites I could give a rodent's backside for, and at this point I'm not really convinced there is an option being planned that trades that pile of dirt out with the current UI. It seems more like your goal has degraded to making the site look "pretty" instead of working better, and over 9000 exploits later we'll be back where we are now.
> 
> That being said, I'm totally in support of the update. It'll refuel everyone's disgust with the site and spawn more FA ripoffs like InkBunny, SoFurry, and so on. Maybe one of them will get it right and everyone will be happy, or it will just be more fodder for the kids back home to feed off of. Pick your candy.


 
Someone is also not on board with this web 2.0/3.0 thang :v


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

thoron said:


> What I'm saying is that there should still be some form of forced categorizion when submitting work beyond ratings, I like the dropdown lists because they have kept it simple, most of my searches are simple, I like being able to just click from a general list, and if theres something more specific then there should be a keyword box next to it.


 Then at least support the fact the current drop downs would need an overhaul to match what you are saying.
Note again the system seems to be working on first checking for all submissions with the word doodle in them, THEN searching for those that have been selected as doodle. A submission I made appears on page 6 if you chosen 3 days. Now what if I happen to say...remove that the submission is a doodle...I wouldnt show up at all. Thus I can fix it that none of my submissions would never show as long I avoid key words, tag my submissions and ultimately not select anything from the drop list.


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## thoron (Jul 1, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Then at least support the fact the current drop downs would need an overhaul to match what you are saying.
> Note again the system seems to be working on first checking for all submissions with the word doodle in them, THEN searching for those that have been selected as doodle. A submission I made appears on page 6 if you chosen 3 days. Now what if I happen to say...remove that the submission is a doodle...I wouldnt show up at all. Thus I can fix it that none of my submissions would never show as long I avoid key words, tag my submissions and ultimately not select anything from the drop list.



I guess I'm ultimately trying to hold onto the current system of browsing because its simple, granted the species part is as a whole useless, but the rest I've found to be very usefull for navigating the site and when it comes to the type/theme of the image you can't leave that blank. At the very least there had better be a way to sort written work from drawn that doesn't envolve the use of key words like 'story' or 'liturature' being typed into a search box.


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## aapur (Jul 1, 2011)

Smelge said:


> When your new version inevitably gets hacked/broken into/etc, are you going to ignore it or try and fix the issues that cause breaches as soon as they happen, rather than ignore them for long periods of time.


 
Hopefully will the site security be revised so we won't be hacked at all.


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## TechKat (Jul 1, 2011)

I really like this new UI that's being built! It's smooth, clean and looks easy to navigate!
Can't wait for the beta version to be released so I can have a little look around and look-out for any glitches or bugs.

 Keep up the good work, FA Team!


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## Nemui (Jul 1, 2011)

I gotta say, I'm really psyched for this update. I think FA (for the most part) has a wonderful community and is finally getting the updated look it deserves.  It'll take a little while to get used to, but I'd much rather do that than stick with the current UI for the sake of familiarity.

That being said, I have one question: will there/can there be a quick maturity toggle?  I know sometimes I have to access the site away from home to respond to notes and such, and the first thing I always find myself doing is rushing over to my control panel to turn mature content off.  It's not a huge deal, but it would definitely make my life easier.

Thank you for your time, I really appreciate all the work that's going into this!


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## Whosat (Jul 1, 2011)

Glad there will be positive changes, although the previews look like they're trying too hard to be all "Web 2.0"-y. I know every page now has a link to facebook and twitter et all, but what do those really accomplish? At this point the people who would be interested are already on it.


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## Kayze (Jul 1, 2011)

Only improved UI's are the profile and the header (sorta). The rest of the "new" UI is lack luster. That is, they don't fix accessibility, they just sorta patch it with some better typography usage.

1. The colors don't make sense, that is they don't have consistency or fit a theme. So, site menu items are blue, and the submit is green, giving the idea that static-themed button links are blue and interactive/user button links are green. But now sending notes is is site themed? Watch is user themed? I suppose that can sorta work, but isn't not very practical since 'noting' is still interactive. Aside from that, the colors aren't used anywhere else (or relate to any other colors used). 

2. There is no real improvement on the accessibility. Spacing, sizing, positioning, etc isn't consistent and isn't improved. Hell, the location of "Add to Favorites" and other links is horrible, as it makes no indication of 'user actions' and is out of the way instead of being centralized. Where they are in the current FA is much better. I bet the "new messages" doesn't even clear on view still, or at least a better way to clear the messages/browse them.

3. Is there any JQuery and AJAX use to make the UI more modern and improve accessibility (as well as reduce server load)? If not, then I'll keep the comment on how this is just new paint on a still outdated UI that doesn't improve accessibility from the current site (and, as mentioned, has decreased accessibility in several areas).

I hope you haven't paid anyone to do this, at least not too much. Cause you didn't hire a UI developer, I can tell you that much.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 1, 2011)

Kayze said:


> 1. The colors don't make sense, that is they don't have consistency or fit a theme. So, site menu items are blue, and the submit is green, giving the idea that static-themed button links are blue and interactive/user button links are green. But now sending notes is is site themed? Watch is user themed? I suppose that can sorta work, but isn't not very practical since 'noting' is still interactive. Aside from that, the colors aren't used anywhere else (or relate to any other colors used).


The colors are not finalized, and much can/will change before this is finished. One of the reasons we're going to be doing an open beta before pushing this live is to get people's feedback, and see what works. Text will be consistent through the final design once everything is hammered out. We plan to do multiple revisions to smooth things out.



Kayze said:


> 2. There is no real improvement on the accessibility. Spacing, sizing, positioning, etc isn't consistent and isn't improved. Hell, the location of "Add to Favorites" and other links is horrible, as it makes no indication of 'user actions' and is out of the way instead of being centralized. Where they are in the current FA is much better. I bet the "new messages" doesn't even clear on view still, or at least a better way to clear the messages/browse them.


See above message. We'll be working on placement over time.



Kayze said:


> 3. Is there any JQuery and AJAX use to make the UI more modern and improve accessibility (as well as reduce server load)? If not, then I'll keep the comment on how this is just new paint on a still outdated UI that doesn't improve accessibility from the current site (and, as mentioned, has decreased accessibility in several areas).


Yes, we plan to implement a few things like that to make the site run faster and smoother.



Kayze said:


> I hope you haven't paid anyone to do this, at least not too much. Cause you didn't hire a UI developer, I can tell you that much.


 We haven't paid anybody.



Whosat said:


> Glad there will be positive changes, although the  previews look like they're trying too hard to be all "Web 2.0"-y. I know  every page now has a link to facebook and twitter et all, but what do  those really accomplish? At this point the people who would be  interested are already on it.


 The Twitter and Facebook links take you to FA's communities on those sites, which is useful for us sharing news and information outside of FA. We're not going all "Web 2.0" and there won't be "share on Facebook/post to Twitter" on people's submissions, journals, etc. I believe that those exist purely for spam purposes, and really make the internet just THAT much more annoying. Sometimes they're useful, but it leads to people getting lazy and just clicking "share" for the hell of it.

I have some friends on other art sites who just love to click that button. And checking my feeds, sometimes I've seen 20-30 "blah blah posted something new on blah blah blah!" and it's aggravating. I don't like that. I know the pain. That's not our goal, and not where we're going.


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## Browder (Jul 1, 2011)

First: Good luck.

Second: Will the update come with a major change/upgrade in how the site's security is handled? Details aren't necessary because telling them to a public forum would be counter intuitive but a yes or a no would be nice.


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## Poetigress (Jul 1, 2011)

It looks like the original post shows a sample of what an art submission's page will look like. Any chance we could see a sample of what a text submission might look like in the new version?


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## RyuuYouki (Jul 1, 2011)

I love how the questions about site security are being completely ignored by Dragoneer....

I like the look of the UI so far and the ideas presented, but I could care less about these updates until security is improved.  Time you are spending on this should be spent on fixing all the holes in the site.  Now, I don't give out personal info, but I should still be able to use a site with out some douche coming along and posting my notes all over the internet.


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## not-fun (Jul 1, 2011)

adding boxes for livejournals, facebooks and twitters is all good...any chance of getting tumblr in there too? i personally prefer it to facebook, not nearly as bloated or buggy.


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## BRN (Jul 1, 2011)

RyuuYouki said:


> I love how the questions about site security are being completely ignored by Dragoneer...


 
I don't really think that's his speciality. I'm just happy for the news.


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Jul 1, 2011)

Looking rather good so far. Just don't go ruining the site. At the moment FA is the easiest to use and fastest site for me. It also looks the nicest. This is more interesting though with other sites also updating. Inkbunny did a minor change but Sofurry is preparing for a major change in Sofurry 2.0 so if that coincides with FA's new look it'll be nice to compare the sites. For now the FA look is better but Sofurry is going for much more integration so if they pull it off without making another mess-up it might wind up as the better choice.



			
				Devious Bane said:
			
		

> That being said, I'm totally in support of the update. It'll refuel  everyone's disgust with the site and spawn more FA ripoffs like  InkBunny, SoFurry, and so on.



Um... Sofurry (or Yiffstar) was started in 2002 and Furaffinity in 2005. So Sofurry is 3 years older than FA and can't be a ripoff. Plus it was originally focussed on stories and FA was focussed on art so they weren't even aiming at the same group.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 1, 2011)

Will you overhaul the TT system? Things can look pretty front end, but for the staff, can you post for them (does not need to be in this thread of course) what plans are for back end usage?


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## Horza (Jul 1, 2011)

I notice you mention tags, any chance of tag filtering with this update? Would be nice to be able to browse the front page without bumping into stuff that creeps me out (an occupational hazard being a furry I know, but, still, would be nice to reduce incidence of this XD)


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## Armaetus (Jul 1, 2011)

I'll wait until the _mechanics_ behind the UI (Security especially) are smooth too, not just the paint cover.

Call me a Negative Nancy but I truly care for the website for exploit free on launch rather than all the old holes just covered up by a fancy new UI.


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## arrowman (Jul 1, 2011)

noooo... -hides from the change-


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## TheRedRaptor (Jul 1, 2011)

Will there official support for uploading images greater than 1.4 megapixel (1280 X 1280) in size?


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

Rakuen Growlithe said:


> Looking rather good so far. Just don't go ruining the site. At the moment FA is the easiest to use and fastest site for me. It also looks the nicest. This is more interesting though with other sites also updating. Inkbunny did a minor change but Sofurry is preparing for a major change in Sofurry 2.0 so if that coincides with FA's new look it'll be nice to compare the sites. For now the FA look is better but Sofurry is going for much more integration so if they pull it off without making another mess-up it might wind up as the better choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Um... Sofurry (or Yiffstar) was started in 2002 and Furaffinity in 2005. So Sofurry is 3 years older than FA and can't be a ripoff. Plus it was originally focussed on stories and FA was focussed on art so they weren't even aiming at the same group.


 Even SoFurry showed off their new Set up a few days ago


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## Verin Asper (Jul 1, 2011)

thoron said:


> I guess I'm ultimately trying to hold onto the current system of browsing because its simple, granted the species part is as a whole useless, but the rest I've found to be very usefull for navigating the site and when it comes to the type/theme of the image you can't leave that blank. At the very least there had better be a way to sort written work from drawn that doesn't envolve the use of key words like 'story' or 'liturature' being typed into a search box.


 wait...wait...
are you talking about the Browse feature or the search feature as I'm sure you can look up for just stories and poetry by using the advance feature for search. Even then the Browse feature does allow one to look up specifically literature too


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## StainMcGorver (Jul 1, 2011)

The recent submissions page seems to look very vague. I really hope you'll get a tooltip at the very least when you hover your mouse over each image. Also, it appears as though there are ads between different sections in the body of that page. Please don't tell me that's true. They look like wider versions of the submissions themselves, with absolutely nothing else showing you that they're different entities than the size. Seriously, no bueno.
And I think you need to focus more on organization and maneuverability of the site rather than how stellar it looks. I'd love to see gallery folders get implemented when The Summer (Or fall. Or winter. Maybe next year.) Update arrives.


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## Pravda (Jul 1, 2011)

It astounds me that you're putting lipstick on the pig that is your existing code base. If you're going to be fixing things, why are you not fixing the parts that _actually matter_ to the functionality of the site?

Oh, right, "it's all about appearances". Forgot.


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## Aden (Jul 1, 2011)

Hey, how about a little box in settings where users can upload their own custom CSS? That can also be a submission category.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 1, 2011)

TheRedRaptor said:


> Will there official support for uploading images greater than 1.4 megapixel (1280 X 1280) in size?


We'd like to, yes. Part of dealing with that will be addressing storage and how the site handles/displays images back to the user.



Pravda said:


> It astounds me that you're putting lipstick on the pig that is your existing code base. If you're going to be fixing things, why are you not fixing the parts that _actually matter_ to the functionality of the site?
> 
> Oh, right, "it's all about appearances". Forgot.


Perhaps you missed the part where we said that this is not just a UI update, but a code update, and we were going to address a lot of that? Or did you just read what you wanted to? This is not just a UI update. We wanted to take the time to fix the coding where it needed to be fixed, and put the coding on top of that as well.

That's exactly the reason why I said the UI is delayed. If we were just putting "lipstick on a pig" as you state we'd have released the UI already.



Poetigress said:


> It looks like the original post shows a sample of what an art submission's page will look like. Any chance we could see a sample of what a text submission might look like in the new version?


At the moment, no. We plan on redoing the way stories are handling entirely, but that that part's not finalized/taken care of. We want to be able to have dynamic fonts and PDF downloads, but that's nowhere near finalized.


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## Pravda (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> We'd like to, yes. Part of dealing with that will be addressing storage and how the site handles/displays images back to the user.


Any plans on dealing with your database server choking on its own entrails?



Dragoneer said:


> Perhaps you missed the part where we said that this is not just a UI update, but a code update, and we were going to address a lot of that? Or did you just read what you wanted to? This is not just a UI update. We wanted to take the time to fix the coding where it needed to be fixed, and put the coding on top of that as well.


I did manage to miss that, since you're pushing the UI pretty hard and trying to dodge questions about your security problems. Now the question remains: who did all this work? How do you know what "needed" to be fixed? You _do_ know that your current coders have a habit of putting in not-quite-correct stopgap "temporary solutions" that never turn into the actual fixes, right? Has _anyone besides them_ looked at what you're doing to see if it even resembles sane? Because from what little we see, that we have to painstakingly extract from Yak in #furaffinity-dev, you're making things less maintainable, more complex, and not-quite fixed. Being fixed (correctness) is a binary thing, it's either broken or not. Again, there _has_ to be a better way to fix things than what you're currently doing. If only you had people offering to help, or something.


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## Briz (Jul 1, 2011)

I have a question, probably a retarded one, but:

Will the problem with having to refresh to "reload" updated images/avatars ever be addressed? Has it already been addressed?


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## Dragoneer (Jul 1, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Will you overhaul the TT system? Things can look pretty front end, but for the staff, can you post for them (does not need to be in this thread of course) what plans are for back end usage?


 After this update, I want to focus on redoing the entire administrative side of the site. Tear it down completely and rebuild it from the ground up. Proper moderation channels, levels (similar to the forums -- mods, super mods, admins) and revised ticketing, assignments as well as a proper reporting system.


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## Pravda (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> After this update, I want to focus on redoing the entire administrative side of the site. Tear it down completely and rebuild it from the ground up. Proper moderation channels, levels (similar to the forums -- mods, super mods, admins) and revised ticketing, assignments as well as a proper reporting system.


You know, this would be an _excellent_ time to redo this the right way. Scratch PHP, redesign your database schema to be workable, and separate the admin tools from the frontend webapp. Maybe even make them _secure_, so that stolen admin cookies aren't an unmitigated disaster.

At least, this is the approach I would use. Feel free to ignore this and make a mishmash of scrapped-together, unreviewed PHP to control the inner workings of your site, then point fingers at me when you get 0wned.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> After this update, I want to focus on redoing the entire administrative side of the site. Tear it down completely and rebuild it from the ground up. Proper moderation channels, levels (similar to the forums -- mods, super mods, admins) and revised ticketing, assignments as well as a proper reporting system.


 
If you are going to do another chain of command, can the mods on the forums also be allowed help out on the main site as well? I really have nothing to do and am on the internet like 90 precent of my day. I can do loads of TTs in a given day and I am sure the other mods could help out as well.


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## Dragoneer (Jul 1, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> If you are going to do another chain of command, can the mods on the forums also be allowed help out on the main site as well? I really have nothing to do and am on the internet like 90 precent of my day. I can do loads of TTs in a given day and I am sure the other mods could help out as well.


 Exactly. Having an official moderator role will allow FA mods to be FA mods - forum and site - if they choose to be.


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## Pravda (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> Exactly. Having an official moderator role will allow FA mods to be FA mods - forum and site - if they choose to be.


Your current codebase, as far as I understand it, doesn't have the concept of roles. Are you seriously going to retrofit this into the current code?


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## Iovis (Jul 1, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Will there be a report button? It is so  much trouble to fill out a TT that it becomes rather a bother to do it. A  report button would be so nice.


This is the only thing I want an answer to.

As for the new UI, I could care less. If I don't like it I know enough about CSS to just create my own and say "screw you FA".


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## dinosaurdammit (Jul 1, 2011)

Iovis said:


> This is the only thing I want an answer to.
> 
> As for the new UI, I could care less. If I don't like it I know enough about CSS to just create my own and say "screw you FA".


 
Then why don't you?

As for the update, I like the new layout. The FA now seems so bland and stale. I don't mind using it and I am not about to complain for a free service but the new layout is very promising. I have never used IB or SF or any other furry sites so I dunno about their faults 'n such but I hope that with the new system will beef up measures to counter attacks and hopefully put more of an end to unexpected down time as well as prevent leaks and problems within staff.


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## Pravda (Jul 1, 2011)

Dragoneer, you're going _out of your way_ to ignore important issues (case in point: you disappear from this thread around the time I posted this); you're only responding to the fluff and to announce future promises of planned plans.

If you want to fix your site, as you state is your current priority (above cash, even), you need to start with the current major issues. To wit:
Security. Not the cargo-cult "lots of magic values hashed together" kind that yak keeps pushing.
Database redundancy. It's nice that you've got some fat storage servers, but you are bottlenecking at the database.
System architecture. Why do you have a load balancer when your webapp isn't redundant? (don't tell me SSL, I know that's BS)

Again, if only you had someone whose day job is helping secure redundant web apps offering to help you fix your insecure, non-redundant web app... If only!


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## Iovis (Jul 1, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Then why don't you?


With some of the new things that they are going to be putting out (folders, new comment system, etc) the CSS style would probably just break when it comes out. So I'll wait and see.


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## kayfox (Jul 1, 2011)

I am also seeing Dragoneer skip over security questions here.


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## thoron (Jul 1, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> wait...wait...
> are you talking about the Browse feature or the search feature as I'm sure you can look up for just stories and poetry by using the advance feature for search. Even then the Browse feature does allow one to look up specifically literature too


 
I've been talking about the browsing feature, the problem is that the species list that is the bane of the FA browsing system is what seems to be on the chopping block. I love the current browsing system the only useless portion of it is the species list, but I can't seem to tell if the its just the species list thats going or the who current browsing system, which from what I can see so far might just be replaced by a keyword search like on FAP or IB. It doesn't help that they have yet to show an example of the new UI's browsing page, what will I use? Keywords that can be iffy if the user mislables? or the current system that makes catergorizing simple everything easy to find ouside of species?


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## Accountability (Jul 1, 2011)

The homepage preview doesn't look particularly appealing to me, and knowing people don't like change, I designed my own that keeps the general layout of the current one and uses or references existing elements found elsewhere in the new UI. It also has my idea for how stories and/or music should be displayed and Twitter integration, and a slight shadow on submissions.







EDIT: My thoughts about the "News" section:
Typically the "News" section never contains anything that is important days after it is posted, so my design only shows the most recent. In some cases, however, it is nice to have access to old news, which could be accomplished either by having a dedicated news page and/or having a next/last series of buttons in the news element that lets you browse through the last 5 or so.


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## Wolfenpilot687 (Jul 1, 2011)

[worthlesscomment]
Also, I hope mood can be more easily changed, for all those emotional folks out there.
[/worthlesscomment]


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## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 1, 2011)

I like the look and feel so far of the update!

I have a question a lot of users and myself are wondering: 

*With the new update, will you integrate the possibility of changing usernames*? It would be extremely helpful! 

It was stated here that it was "in the works" http://help.furaffinity.net/article/AA-00237/0/Changing-my-username.html

So I am wondering if we should expect it with the new update this summer? If not ,when? Thank you!


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## Eevee (Jul 1, 2011)

It is extremely obvious to me that only the userpage was designed by Zaush, and the rest has been retrofitted by a non-designer to kinda fit the general page layout.  That doesn't bode well.

That said, I'm less interested in the UI and more interested in: *what has been done and what is still planned?*  Dragoneer, you've been very hand-wavey every time this has come up.  Yes, we get it, there's new commenting supposedly probably coming, or whatever.  Please be more specific.  We have no idea what's actually been accomplished and no idea what's holding up an open beta.


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## RedRoseofDeath (Jul 1, 2011)

Wooooowww... It's a good thing that the pure immaturity of people never amazes me anymore. Because reading through this thread I am just repulsed by the pure rudeness shown by so many people. Honestly, some of you are just nasty. I see some people on this topic that are the reason people hate furries. If you don't like the new UI then go to a different site. Are you serious? There are things called manners that some of you idiots could stand to learn. It's sad really that we live in a world where people think it's okay to say whatever they want because they are hiding behind a computer. I bet any amount of money that if you were face to face with Dragoneer you would be too cowardly to say it to his face. 

Aw poor baby, you don't like the new UI, aw poor baby he won't discuss security issues, Well honestly, would you like him to say OH YES we are fixing the security by doing this, this and this? just so people know exactly how to breach it? Woww you guys are god damn morons. -.-'

I personally love the new UI, I don't see how it is 'a copy' of any other site be it inkbunny, sofurry or any of those other sites that I don't give a flying flea about. 

Keep up the good work Dragoneer, I can't wait for it to roll out.


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## Xaevo (Jul 1, 2011)

i don't want this update, i just want the old UI and improved under-the-hood code.

FA is good as it is when it comes to styling, please focus on the code instead?

There are alot of security issues to be fixed, focus on that before switching themes.

imho, it looks like inkbunny raped Deviantart, and then something spawned out of that....

no offence, but really, it's too copy-catty.

Fix the issues, listen to what eevee, pi and i have to say, and then give users the OPTION to switch to the new UI.


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## Shadomew (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm definitely excited about the update; to put it bluntly, the current UI is boring and the backend leaves much much much to be desired...
By the way, one thing I noticed in the process of creating this post that's a tad irksome -- the forum isn't linked to the main site at all. ^^; Is it possible that the future will include integration so that FA users won't need to register a second time to access the forums? x_x


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## Browder (Jul 1, 2011)

Shadomew said:


> I'm definitely excited about the update; to put it bluntly, the current UI is boring and the backend leaves much much much to be desired...
> By the way, one thing I noticed in the process of creating this post that's a tad irksome -- the forum isn't linked to the main site at all. ^^; Is it possible that the future will include integration so that FA users won't need to register a second time to access the forums? x_x


 
Yes it is. Look at the bottom of your page.

Still the fact that you HAVE to look at the bottom of your page may prove your point.


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## Eevee (Jul 1, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> Well honestly, would you like him to say OH YES we are fixing the security by doing this, this and this? just so people know exactly how to breach it? Woww you guys are god damn morons. -.-'


This is not how it works.  Some of the people in this thread are decently well-versed in security; if you are not, please don't criticize the technical merits of their actions.



Xaevo said:


> FA is good as it is when it comes to styling, please focus on the code instead?
> 
> Fix the issues, listen to what eevee, pi and i have to say, and then give users the OPTION to switch to the new UI.


FA currently looks terrible and functions poorly.  It may be _familiar_, but its merits end there.

Providing multiple skins is a fool's errand; it significantly increases the workload required for adding or changing virtually any feature, and more roadblocks are the last thing FA needs.


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## Pravda (Jul 1, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> a big long extended "if you don't like it go somewhere else" dicksuck



Saying "go somewhere else" does not fix the _severe, long-term, brokenness_ exhibited by this current code base. Please learn a little bit about internet security before you accuse people of being immature for talking about it, then immediately pull the least-mature response of 'heh if you dont like it just leave'; that helps nobody and only serves to make you look stupid.


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## Iovis (Jul 1, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> Wooooowww... It's a good thing that the pure immaturity of people never  amazes me anymore. Because reading through this thread I am just  repulsed by the pure rudeness shown by so many people. Honestly, some of  you are just nasty. *I see some people on this topic that are the reason  people hate furries.*


I'm sorry but what, pray tell, does that have anything to do with being a *FURRY*? Seems more like a *HUMAN *thing to me... but maybe that's because I don't live in some delusional fantasy world where "FURRIE R TEH REELZ!!111!"?



RedRoseofDeath said:


> If you don't like the new UI then go to a different site.


Like what? I hate to break it to you sweetie, but Furaffinity is the biggest and best out of all the furry art sites out there. Though I will say that Inkbunny would easily beat out FA if it wasn't run by a bunch of human hating pedos.



RedRoseofDeath said:


> Aw poor baby, you don't like the new UI, aw poor baby he won't discuss security issues, Well honestly, would you like him to say OH YES we are fixing the security by doing this, this and this? just so people know exactly how to breach it? Woww you guys are god damn morons. -.-'


Fun fact: if the security issues that FA is plagued with were fixed *properly *it wouldn't matter what kind of information he gave out. Trying to abuse security vulnerabilities that aren't there is like trying to cut down a tree with a blade of grass.


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## Talonblaze (Jul 1, 2011)

Seeing as how most of this stuff is still not yet 100% factual yet and many of the questions I wondered have been asked already;

What about site efficiency? The great thing FA has over alot of sites is how fast and easy to navigate it is. I don't have to wait for stuff like DA, SoFurry or all that jazz with this jumbled stuff of useless features and codes and the UI is friendly for all connections.
Will this new UI change that?

Also, if tags ARE introduced, will they be alot more efficient than the other sites? Its a major turn off that I'm wasting time having to do tag formats in a silly specific format JUST to submit my works.
Heaven forbid I can't do C/P or miss a comma. I really hope FA doesn't go down that road.
The drop down menus are quick and easy to navigate to and find what you want as well.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jul 1, 2011)

Talonblaze said:


> The drop down menus are quick and easy to navigate to and find what you want as well.


 
I actually like the drop down menu but not for species. If the tag system were used and the drop down for species cut down it would solve a lot of archiving issues. Rather than just putting OTHER and lumping it with like a bunch of stuff that does not match your species you can just tag it and tags that are similar will automatically write up too. It seems more efficient.


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## Rossyfox (Jul 1, 2011)

You know for the amount of changes you are making to this thing maybe it would make more sense to start from scratch with a web application framework.

You could call it Project Ferrox


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## RAEGBEAST (Jul 1, 2011)

perhaps with the tagging, there should be a tag blacklist in addition to the filters as its done on pixiv. i guess it'd be helpful to avoid the need to claw you eyes out from say, scat, but keep your filter off all together. it could also just be helpful for if someone has an unsual hatred for seeing, uh i don't know, foxes, they can also be blacklisted. also, say a user decides to blacklist canines, it should blacklist everything that can be clouded with that(to avoid filling up the blacklist with too similar tags, ei fox, wolf, wolves and dogs all on the blacklist)

it would probably be a good idea for the tags to not be case sensitive to avoid dupe tags ie CAT and cat as two completely different tags because someone forgot how to work their caps lock or shift key

however, if this were to be implemented here on fA, people would at least have to ATTEMPT to correctly tag their images...but then again, that's there fault if they tag incorrectly and no one ever sees their art

....hopefully that made some kind of sense....


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## iskande (Jul 1, 2011)

Will there be an option to have the same submission have multiple owners, say for collabs or commissions? Because at present my biggest problem with the site is how many reposts there are of pics when both the commissioner and artist post it, and then usually the one only links to the other's profile in the description and i have to go digging through their gallery and/or scraps to find it.


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## Rossyfox (Jul 1, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> I bet any amount of money that if you were face to face with Dragoneer you would be too cowardly to say it to his face.


 
No I wouldn't.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 1, 2011)

RAEGBEAST said:


> perhaps with the tagging, there should be a tag blacklist in addition to the filters as its done on pixiv. i guess it'd be helpful to avoid the need to claw you eyes out from say, scat, but keep your filter off all together. it could also just be helpful for if someone has an unsual hatred for seeing, uh i don't know, foxes, they can also be blacklisted. also, say a user decides to blacklist canines, it should blacklist everything that can be clouded with that(to avoid filling up the blacklist with too similar tags, ei fox, wolf, wolves and dogs all on the blacklist)
> 
> it would probably be a good idea for the tags to not be case sensitive to avoid dupe tags ie CAT and cat as two completely different tags because someone forgot how to work their caps lock or shift key
> 
> ...



That seems a little much to me...I think people should just kind of deal with it? Furry is about animals, so they should expect to see animal art, even if they don't like a particular animal. Are you suggesting a kind of filter thing, where they can filter out (using your example) pictures of foxes? Cuz it sounds like kind of a mature filter-like thing. I really don't see how it would significantly improve the site. Could you maybe explain more about it?


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## RAEGBEAST (Jul 1, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> That seems a little much to me...I think people should just kind of deal with it? Furry is about animals, so they should expect to see animal art, even if they don't like a particular animal. Are you suggesting a kind of filter thing, where they can filter out (using your example) pictures of foxes? Cuz it sounds like kind of a mature filter-like thing. I really don't see how it would significantly improve the site. Could you maybe explain more about it?


 
i guess it could be somewhat of a site improvement as well as a possible search-related improvement

but yes, basically treat it as a type of filter that would filter out whatever the user wished not to see be it a particular species, style( ie sonic art), character or fetish. if i don't want to see 'dog wang' everywhere but say, still wanted to see all the other laughable porn here, i'd simply blacklist the tag 'dog wang'. if i wanted to see all felines except for lynxes, i'd blacklist those but not 'felines' as a whole. or maybe if i wanted to see maybe more original characters versus fan art, i could black list the tag 'fan art' and keep it moving and vice versa. maybe even blacklist certain artist just because you hate them that much and they felt the need to have a tag of themselves for their image or whatever

i understand that on a furry site, your going to see animals of some type, that's unavoidable but i think it'd be a little nice to pick or maybe have some control over what you do see versus what you don't want to see. its not like you'd have to blacklist _anything_ but like i said, it'd be nice to have a little control over what's displayed on your front page/browsing


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## lady.snakebite (Jul 1, 2011)

What I've asked about every time the UI change has come up, and will ask about again...

It looks like you're removing the Faves section from the user's initial page, with the Most Recent section being left.

Honestly as an artist I'd like to see the Recent Faves section get a preview spot on the user's page as well. A) It's how I find most of the artists I like and B) It's basically the best publicity ever. Without the Faves being viewable as well as the most recent work it becomes much more difficult to get your work out there and also to find interesting work. It would be ideal to keep a distinct Faves page but have a smaller-sized preview area for the Most Recent Faves.

Are you going to do that or are the Faves just going to be cloistered in their own section?


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 1, 2011)

RAEGBEAST said:


> i guess it could be somewhat of a site improvement as well as a possible search-related improvement
> 
> but yes, basically treat it as a type of filter that would filter out whatever the user wished not to see be it a particular species, style( ie sonic art), character or fetish. if i don't want to see 'dog wang' everywhere but say, still wanted to see all the other laughable porn here, i'd simply blacklist the tag 'dog wang'. if i wanted to see all felines except for lynxes, i'd blacklist those but not 'felines' as a whole. or maybe if i wanted to see maybe more original characters versus fan art, i could black list the tag 'fan art' and keep it moving and vice versa. maybe even blacklist certain artist just because you hate them that much and they felt the need to have a tag of themselves for their image or whatever
> 
> i understand that on a furry site, your going to see animals of some type, that's unavoidable but i think it'd be a little nice to pick or maybe have some control over what you do see versus what you don't want to see. its not like you'd have to blacklist _anything_ but like i said, it'd be nice to have a little control over what's displayed on your front page/browsing



See, the thing is though that people complain about the whole "species" tag. Adding this would be another tag that people have to fuss with. Not every species is listed under the drop down menu, and there might not be everything desired under the "blacklist" menu. Adds a little more mess, imo.


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## Brakien (Jul 1, 2011)

I wash wondering if the new site would be flash enabled?


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## VazDrae (Jul 2, 2011)

I must say. I absolutely love that UI. Looks great! It will be a nice change/update for FA.


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## RAEGBEAST (Jul 2, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> See, the thing is though that people  complain about the whole "species" tag. Adding this would be another tag  that people have to fuss with. Not every species is listed under the  drop down menu, and there might not be everything desired under the  "blacklist" menu. Adds a little more mess, imo.


 
i wasn't referring to the drop down menu, hell i forget it exists. i should've pointed that out earlier....

i'm talking about when a user submits an image, they can chose to or not  to add keywords(or tags) which is what the blacklist would work for.  quite frankly, there's a shitton that those menus are missing which  leaves many to have to add certain keywords for people to find art as  opposed to going through those menus which almost exclusively cater to  what's most popular or generalizations


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## Aden (Jul 2, 2011)

Brakien said:


> I wash wondering if the new site would be flash enabled?


 
I'm not sure what you're trying to ask here since people can already upload Flash submissions...

if you mean has Flash elements as part of the new UI, god I hope not


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## Sax (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm still not clear at all about what has been already coded for the new UI, vs what is still "planned" and what won't happen at all, so I'll just say that concerning the look of the new UI, count me as another that would prefer something looking less muddy, text looking more contrasted. I would also prefer keeping the favorites on the userpage, for the reasons mentioned above.


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## Dragunov (Jul 2, 2011)

Looks very promising; far as the design choices go I'm all for the aesthetic you've chosen. I've always set my FA to 'dark' as it is so the colours look quite welcoming! I can see that some might prefer a lighter version or something more high contrast


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## Woggle (Jul 2, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I want to fix this, yes. I find it incredibly aggravating.


 
What about doing something along the lines of Hentai Foundry? Over there you can set content limits which replace the thumbnail with a generic warning thumbnail, that way you can look if you must, but if its something that would squick you, you don't have to see even a thumb of it.

Gee, gotta love when it decides to only quote part of the message. Oh well, this was referring to the drop down lists. What about some over arching drop downs (felids, canines, hybrid, other, etc) and then a box to type in your exact species?


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## Quin.EXE (Jul 2, 2011)

You know... I hate to sound like a dick about all this - but god damn. People never just stop to think about everything in 'Neer's shoes. Here he is trying to at least do some good for the site, and everyone just jumps on his ass like a flock of angry birds or. Something. Sure, the site could use a little revamping security wise, but you honestly think hounding his ass every two seconds will do anything?

We're going to change the site's UI and work on a few things-- FIX THE SECURITY DON'T IGNORE ME!!!
We're going to take things one step at a time, because as you know, things like this take ti-- YOU'RE IGNORING ME YOU APPARENTLY DON'T CARE YOU'RE A SACK OF SHIT.

Maybe he stopped replying to it because it gets on his nerves that every step he takes, someone has attack him. He can't even step around the site without someone snapping some rude remark in his direction. For christs sake, if you wanna help, actually have something decent to say TO help, if you have an idea to fix the problem, email him or something and tell him how. 'Cause obviously your bitching isn't helping. c:

As long as you're TRYING 'Neer, thanks. I worry sometimes, but somehow I have the feeling everything will work itself out eventually.


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## RedRoseofDeath (Jul 2, 2011)

Quin.EXE said:


> You know... I hate to sound like a dick about all this - but god damn. People never just stop to think about everything in 'Neer's shoes. Here he is trying to at least do some good for the site, and everyone just jumps on his ass like a flock of angry birds or. Something. Sure, the site could use a little revamping security wise, but you honestly think hounding his ass every two seconds will do anything?
> 
> We're going to change the site's UI and work on a few things-- FIX THE SECURITY DON'T IGNORE ME!!!
> We're going to take things one step at a time, because as you know, things like this take ti-- YOU'RE IGNORING ME YOU APPARENTLY DON'T CARE YOU'RE A SACK OF SHIT.
> ...


 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. THIS is how it should be done. NOT "omg u suk fuk u lol u r so fukin dumb y u no fix stuffz lulz" 
Thank you. :]


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## Zionia (Jul 2, 2011)

Any chance the fabled folder sorted system might be coming in this summer? it would be nice to be able to sort through peoples pages who have different media types (music, visual and written for example) without having to browse their entire gallery to find just what you are looking for. It would help a good deal in reducing multiple accounts for furs that have a separate account for each of their art forms as well.


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## kayfox (Jul 2, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> This is exactly what I'm talking about. THIS is how it should be done. NOT "omg u suk fuk u lol u r so fukin dumb y u no fix stuffz lulz"
> Thank you. :]


 
Except for the most part the people asking about security issues are offering to help, can help, are respected security or IT professionals, and have been either very civil or mostly civil in dealing with this.  The real problem is, without actually fixing security and infrastructure issues, the site is in real danger of somply ceasing to exist for some stupid reason some day, and well, some people dont like that uncertainty.  But I guess as long as you think Dragoneer is trying, thats good enough.

Of course, everything you have said belies little understanding of the issue at hand anyways, and I dont really expect you to dig deeper and figure out just why these people are a little upset.


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## Pravda (Jul 2, 2011)

Sigh.

"As long as you're trying!" seems to be a common refrain.

He's _not_ trying. These issues have been known for years. They are easy to fix, but they would prefer to ignore everything we have to say about them and only patch around things after they become major, site-down, we-were-just-compromised issues. Then they lie to the userbase about the solution, tell them to go to another site if they don't like being lied to, insinuate that the problems are caused by the people _trying to warn them about the issues_, and they have been doing this for upward of _six years_. That is emphatically _not_ trying.


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## Aden (Jul 2, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> This is exactly what I'm talking about. THIS is how it should be done. NOT "omg u suk fuk u lol u r so fukin dumb y u no fix stuffz lulz"
> Thank you. :]


 
So what's your experience level in the IT field?


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## Rossyfox (Jul 2, 2011)

If they showed a sign of actually listening to the people who can help, then idiots like me wouldn't feel the need to get involved

surely that is reason enough


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## Eevee (Jul 2, 2011)

Quin.EXE said:


> Maybe he stopped replying to it because it gets on his nerves that every step he takes, someone has attack him.


And this is why I try to be very clear that this is the case.  The problem is not that he gets attacked for everything he does; rather he is attacked for everything he refuses to even acknowledge.  Even the OP is rather vague about Dragoneer's actual intentions for this update, what has actually been done so far, and what in particular is holding up an open beta; some of those features are potentially rather complex, yet they are _all_ being dumped under one 'update' umbrella and supposedly due very soon.

Dragoneer continues to reveal only the barest minimum of information to make FA artificially look better, which usually takes the form of hand-waved plans for the distant future.  It is a little aggravating to be continuously jerked around for so long, to say the least.



Quin.EXE said:


> For christs sake, if you wanna help, actually have something decent to say TO help, if you have an idea to fix the problem, email him or something and tell him how.


It's quite presumptuous of you to expect that nobody had thought of this.

I have been telling FA staff how to solve a variety of problems for quite some time now.  I was even on staff myself for a while.  It's still like pulling teeth, and I'm still largely ignored.



Quin.EXE said:


> As long as you're TRYING 'Neer, thanks.


Trying does not help if you try the wrong things.

Don't get me wrong, progress is always good, and this is actually a real mention of what's going on with a deadline that passed only five weeks ago.  I'm just extremely doubtful that this new UI will show up this summer, or even this year.  Dragoneer is tacking far too many other things onto it and giving it far too short a deadline given his small development staff (of zero).  Keep in mind this new UI was first unveiled, virtually unchanged from how it is now, *two years ago*.

And anything of actual importance continues to go unaddressed, simply because it won't look as cool as some screenshots.  It's just more promises.  Appearances beat substance, yet again.


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## Eevee (Jul 2, 2011)

Pravda said:


> He's _not_ trying. These issues have been known for years. They are easy to fix, but they would prefer to ignore everything we have to say about them and only patch around things after they become major, site-down, we-were-just-compromised issues.


I'm not even so buggered about the security problems as the attitude underscoring them.

_All_ problems are treated the same way; they aren't prioritized and we don't hear anything about them, sometimes even after they're fixed.  FA seems deathly afraid of actually explaining what work _they have already done_, instead opting to promise what work _they will do_.  I don't understand this.  Dragoneer purports to be part of the community, yes?  What is he afraid of?  Not projecting the illusion of running a big important business, because playing dumb product revelation games is a thing businesses do?

I don't even _use_ Inkbunny, but I can tell you some of the improvements it's gotten recently, because they send me a damn email once a month!  Where was the mention of site-wide HTTPS, or the XSS fix?  Why has there been no mention of the Ferrox rewrite Ice-Wolf started on?

The _only_ change posted to the news recently was the CSRF fix, and that was posted long before it was actually fixed; I had to demonstrate how broken it was personally before the real fix, which I told yak about almost a year ago, was implemented!


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## SwooshyCueb (Jul 2, 2011)

Thread status: derailed.
Can we stop talking about Dragoneer and talk about the update, please?


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## Pravda (Jul 2, 2011)

SwooshyCueb said:


> Thread status: derailed.
> Can we stop talking about Dragoneer and talk about the update, please?


 
We _are_ talking about the update. It is insubstantial, addresses the wrong problems, and isn't even really an 'update', more of an announcement of future promises of later plans.

And yes, I _do_ expect you to have some kind of background in internet security if you're going to be making statements about how my advice is unhelpful. What makes you qualified to judge otherwise?


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## Eevee (Jul 2, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> (elided)


Please stop clogging this thread with baseless insults.  This is not constructive in the least.


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Jul 3, 2011)

Woggle said:
			
		

> What about doing something along the lines of Hentai Foundry?  Over there you can set content limits which replace the thumbnail with a  generic warning thumbnail, that way you can look if you must, but if  its something that would squick you, you don't have to see even a thumb  of it.



Blocking tags is better. If you put a thumbnail up then you can't see the picture so you don't know whether to click or not. Imagine trying to browse FA purely on tags with no sort of preview. You might as well get rid of any graphical interface then and just make it a text list.


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## Eske (Jul 3, 2011)

RAEGBEAST said:


> perhaps with the tagging, there should be a tag blacklist in addition to the filters as its done on pixiv. i guess it'd be helpful to avoid the need to claw you eyes out from say, scat, but keep your filter off all together. it could also just be helpful for if someone has an unsual hatred for seeing, uh i don't know, foxes, they can also be blacklisted. also, say a user decides to blacklist canines, it should blacklist everything that can be clouded with that(to avoid filling up the blacklist with too similar tags, ei fox, wolf, wolves and dogs all on the blacklist)


 
I think this is kind of getting off topic, but I actually would like to see something like this.  It would be helpful for people like me who don't mind nudity or mature content, but would rather not feel the urge to gouge their own eyes out when browsing FA.  I think they have something like this on e621, but I'm not sure.  I've heard it's fairly effective, but they also have a really heavy and efficient tagging system.  In any case, I only go there to monitor my artwork which inevitably gets uploaded there by other people, so I've never used it personally.

The whole idea of having 'canine' also block wolf, fox, dogs, etc is just too much, though.  We would need to code synonyms for every single tag for that to work, and that's just way too much.  If you want to block all canines, you'd just have to do that yourself.

But that's beside the point.  I think if updates are taking this long to get completed (not complaining, just an observation here), we should hold off on the suggestions for additional features.  I'll just be happy when some of this upcoming UI gets put into practice.  It looks nice so far (aside from the colours, but that's already been covered), so I'm hoping it will work nicely as well.


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## Exias (Jul 3, 2011)

I have but one small question:

Will it be possible to change usernames?


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## Kalika (Jul 3, 2011)

I also would like to know if it will be possible to change usernames.


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## Armaetus (Jul 3, 2011)

RedRoseofDeath said:


> "If you don't like it, go elsewhere"



This doesn't help when the underlying CODE is untouched and unanswered or very minimal information about it is here. People don't want to leave, they want it to be exploit free so stop your sycophancy, it doesn't help.



Quin.EXE said:


> You know... I hate to sound like a dick about all this - but god damn. People never just stop to think about everything in 'Neer's shoes. Here he is trying to at least do some good for the site, and everyone just jumps on his ass like a flock of angry birds or. Something. Sure, the site could use a little revamping security wise, but you honestly think hounding his ass every two seconds will do anything?
> 
> We're going to change the site's UI and work on a few things-- FIX THE SECURITY DON'T IGNORE ME!!!
> We're going to take things one step at a time, because as you know, things like this take ti-- YOU'RE IGNORING ME YOU APPARENTLY DON'T CARE YOU'RE A SACK OF SHIT.
> ...


 
Because sometimes hounding Dragoneer is usually the only way shit gets done around here, especially system critical issues.

Like I've said, the UI looks nice but I also want to see the stuff under the roof (code) to be secure.


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## Mitexi (Jul 3, 2011)

It looks interesting and I love the colors!
Looking forward to it full.


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## Tenyth (Jul 3, 2011)

Kajet said:


> Reminds me of inkbunny... and no that is not a particularly good thing.
> 
> And a version for mobile phones would be nice.



would be very nice to get on FA with my psp and not get 'out of memory' errors.


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## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 3, 2011)

Hello!
Still awaiting on the reply for username changes, just incase my original post was lost in the sea of other comments, here it is again:



Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> I like the look and feel so far of the update!
> 
> I have a question a lot of users and myself are wondering:
> 
> ...


 

This is quite in demand, I have to say! I really hope this will be integrated with the new update. You'd be making a lot of people happy (since changing a username is much more simple than abandoning an account, making a new one , and re-uploading there- etc, etc)


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## StainMcGorver (Jul 3, 2011)

Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> Hello!
> Still awaiting on the reply for username changes, just incase my original post was lost in the sea of other comments, here it is again:


I can almost guarantee that you still won't be able to change usernames.


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## CannonFodder (Jul 3, 2011)

StainMcGorver said:


> I can almost guarantee that you still won't be able to change usernames.


 More than likely not.


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## Rossyfox (Jul 3, 2011)

Unless FA is pretty much recoded from the ground up I don't think it will be possible to change usernames.


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## timoran (Jul 3, 2011)

Poppycock. Just add a few cascade rules to the database and it's do-able.

But, this is not a power that ordinary users should have without mod intervention.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 3, 2011)

timoran said:


> Poppycock. Just add a few cascade rules to the database and it's do-able.
> 
> But, this is not a power that ordinary users should have without mod intervention.



I just think if people could change usernames, even if once per year, it could throw off the "balance". Like, if I went from NightfireTiger to DaytimeTiger (just making it up, I don't know if someone actually has that username) how could people find me? They couldn't type in my page's fA URL; it would be wrong. People would look through their list of watches and say, "I remember NightfireTiger, but not DaytimeTiger...who is that?". The entire community would have to learn your new username. 
And I'm sure if username changes became possible, a LOT of people would do it. It could very possibly be huge chaos.

Or I'm just paranoid.

Either way, I feel that there are more important things to work on for the site than people to be allowed to change usernames. I don't think it's really a priority.


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## thoron (Jul 3, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> I just think if people could change usernames, even if once per year, it could throw off the "balance". Like, if I went from NightfireTiger to DaytimeTiger (just making it up, I don't know if someone actually has that username) how could people find me? They couldn't type in my page's fA URL; it would be wrong. People would look through their list of watches and say, "I remember NightfireTiger, but not DaytimeTiger...who is that?". The entire community would have to learn your new username.
> And I'm sure if username changes became possible, a LOT of people would do it. It could very possibly be huge chaos.
> 
> Or I'm just paranoid.
> ...



At the very least if they did implement this, there should be a feature that lets all the watchers know that user has changed thier username.


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## Eevee (Jul 4, 2011)

timoran said:


> Poppycock. Just add a few cascade rules to the database and it's do-able.


FA's database has no foreign keys.


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## kayfox (Jul 4, 2011)

timoran said:


> Poppycock. Just add a few cascade rules to the database and it's do-able.
> 
> But, this is not a power that ordinary users should have without mod intervention.


 
This requires there to be foreign keys in the database in the first place.  The last bit of official information I have seen relating to FKs states they only then were starting to consider using them, this was 2009.

But I donno, its all speculation.


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## quoting_mungo (Jul 4, 2011)

Yyyeah. Not keeping the site "feel" at all IMO. It looks much like a generic Web 2.0 layout done by people with no real understanding of _why_ many Web 2.0 sites look like they do, and doesn't really read "FurAffinity" at all to me.

Too many colors is my first concern. I'm pretty sure the thought behind the green "Submit" button is something to do with Call-to-Action buttons, but honestly I find it distracting, and it would be more so to people who merely have their accounts to browse; for them the logical CtA would be "Browse". Thus, including a CtA at all seems awkward at best, and I would advise against it.

The submission page has _way_ too long lines in the description. I realize you're going for a more horizontal layout, but line length is a key aspect of readability, and the HUGE line length there makes me worry for e.g. story submissions where it's even more crucial that the text is readable. A simple improvement to this page would be to put the +fav, information, and statistics in a lighter box, similar to the news box thing on the proposed front page but without the little speech bubble tail thing, and making that box approximately 1/3 of the total width available there. It would both clearly separate that information from the submission description, and make the description more readable by reducing the line length a bit.

(As a sidenote, doing the mockup with one of Rukis's pieces but the rest of the artist page including the other works thumbnails based on Nambroth's gallery is probably a poor decision.)

Accountability's alternate front page design is a _huge_ improvement over the one you display, and gets bonus points for including the Twitter account. If you want to use Twitter as an official channel for information, putting a widget on the front page for when the site _isn't_ down is going to make it easier for everyone involved and probably reduce user frustration over nothing ever being properly communicated to the userbase. 

The two dark grey background tones should be used consistently. On the submission page (and Accountability's mockup news box) the dark-dark is a "header background". Great. Fine. The low contrast between it and the quite-dark is not really a major problem then. If you can't pick it up there's enough spatial separation to make do. (Though arguably the header bar should also be dark-dark if you want dark-dark to read "header".)

On the front page, the use of the two dark grey tones looks haphazard. In the "official" mockup, the news item and the art submissions and the ads share one dark-dark background block, making them look like a unit, followed by a quite-dark block for writing submissions. This will likely result in one or more of the following:

# Browsers will parse the ads as being recent art submissions. NOT GOOD. People HATE ads they don't realize are ads. It'll be bad for the site (for "tricking" users into clicking ads, even if FA's ads are relevant ones) and bad for the advertisers (users feeling "tricked" will be hostile against content they would otherwise enjoy). 

# Browsers will parse news+art+ads as being "one unit", which would lead to suggesting to users that the writing is "secondary content". This is already to some degree suggested by the placement of writing below art, but there's no need to further reinforce it by separation. 

# The ads will seem to tie the art thumbnails together into two columns, and the user's brain will be churning to try to figure out what's different between the two columns. This is distracting and takes away from the browsing experience. (Actually, the footer in the mockup looks two-columned, as well, which looks even more weird.)

# First-time visitors will get confused by the newspost in the block with the art, and disregard the whole site as confusing

One of the things that reads as "FA" to me currently _is_ the very clear separation between page elements, so avoiding losing that separation seems to me like it should be high on the priority list. 

In general, try to minimize the shades of grey used. The profile mockup thing uses three. Every time you introduce a new shade, ask why. What purpose will another shade serve? You want consistency and you want logical separation of elements in a way that's easily identifiable for the user. You don't have that right now, IMO.

Ad placement seems to be an afterthought on the front page, and far as I can tell ads have not been included at all on other pages. Remarkable considering the reason for changing the ad format was allegedly to work with the new site design. Ads on front page only would _seriously_ limit exposure, which would make me seriously consider whether advertising on FA would be worth it. (From what I can recall from my referrals when the webcomic I'm an artist for had an ad, 90+% did _not_ come from the front page. Though as an advertiser I'd have appreciated FA having some sort of landing/redirection page for ad clicks so I could tell "someone linked to us on FA" from "someone hit the banner ad while looking at this page".)

(Also worth noting: the current CSS-based drop-down menus do not have full functionality in all browsers; until very recently I had to browse FA in compatibility mode to get them to work at all. Dropdown menus should be used with caution. Additionally it's not immediately apparent what all falls under "community" or what have you; consider adding some sort of sitemap-like thing to the page footer.)

Considering how you tout reworking of the comment system, it's kind of remarkable that you have not a single mockup of comments.


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 4, 2011)

StainMcGorver said:


> I can almost guarantee that you still won't be able to change usernames.


 
Well, I only ask because Dragoneer gave an indication that they were working on it here:
http://help.furaffinity.net/article/AA-00237/0/Changing-my-username.html


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 4, 2011)

I sincerely doubt they'd let you change your username too often though, that would just be havoc. I think people should be allowed once, or only with good reason. Or go the LJ way, and charge for a username change? So only super "serious/desperate" people with good reasons would change their username, and so that nobody abuses of the feature.

I assume that if someone types your old username, it could re-direct you to the same page? When I type my old username URL on LJ , it redirects me to the same page and switches the name to the new one.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 4, 2011)

Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> I assume that if someone types your old username, it could re-direct you to the same page? When I type my old username URL on LJ , it redirects me to the same page and switches the name to the new one.



But what if your old username becomes registered to someone else? If I'm NightfireTiger and change to DaytimeTiger, and later someone else registers under NightfireTiger, how will the page redirect?


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 4, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> But what if your old username becomes  registered to someone else? If I'm NightfireTiger and change to  DaytimeTiger, and later someone else registers under NightfireTiger, how  will the page redirect?


 

However Livejournal does it? I suppose the username does not become available and is still under your account name? On live journal, I think an old account name can only be used by someone else if you choose to delete it and "purge" the account name.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 4, 2011)

Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> However Livejournal does it? I suppose the username does not become available and is still under your account name? On live journal, I think an old account name can only be used by someone else if you choose to delete it and "purge" the account name.



Ah, ok. I still think there's possibility of confusion, but you definitely bring up a good point.


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 4, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> Ah, ok. I still think there's possibility of confusion, but you definitely bring up a good point.


 

I don't think it would be confusing to a huge extent. Or anymore confusing than what currently happens when an artist completely switches accounts. Actually, I think it would be less trouble for the watcher too. They wouldn't have to watch a new account to make sure they keep track of the artist. Sometimes we miss the memo that an artist switched accounts, only with this implemented, they wouldn't need to worry about it. At worst, the artist would have to post a journal stating "hey, this is still me!/I changed account names..etc." The watcher would also not have to bother un-watching a dead account .


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## Armaetus (Jul 4, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> But what if your old username becomes registered to someone else? If I'm NightfireTiger and change to DaytimeTiger, and later someone else registers under NightfireTiger, how will the page redirect?


 
It should just tell the attempted registree that the name is taken.


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 4, 2011)

Glaice said:


> It should just tell the attempted registree that the name is taken.



But if lots of people do it, that's a lot of unavailable usernames.


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## Eske (Jul 4, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> But if lots of people do it, that's a lot of unavailable usernames.


 
That would be in absolutely no way different than what people do now -- making a new account and leaving the old one to collect dust.  -shrug-

Plus, if we had the option for purging as was suggested earlier, there might be a chance to reuse the name.


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## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 4, 2011)

Eske said:


> That would be in absolutely no way different than what people do now -- making a new account and leaving the old one to collect dust.  -shrug-
> 
> Plus, if we had the option for purging as was suggested earlier, there might be a chance to reuse the name.


 
exactly what i was going to say <3


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## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 4, 2011)

Eske said:


> That would be in absolutely no way different than what people do now -- making a new account and leaving the old one to collect dust.  -shrug-
> 
> Plus, if we had the option for purging as was suggested earlier, there might be a chance to reuse the name.



You got me there.  I see what you mean now.


----------



## Diocletian (Jul 4, 2011)

I guess Dragoneer is too busy now to clarify what concrete things the 'update' will deal with and/or start taking actions to fix FA?

Meanwhile, on FA's facebook he is advising people about fursuiting when its hot:







http://www.facebook.com/furaffinity

Does anyone else think it's a bit odd that Dragoneer would rather fart around on facebook than deal with things here or even actually take some concrete steps towards setting FA aright?


----------



## Dragoneer (Jul 4, 2011)

Sekhmet_Pyralis said:


> I like the look and feel so far of the update!
> 
> I have a question a lot of users and myself are wondering:
> 
> ...


 I believe we've got a way to do this, but no promises. =3 Have to talk over the idea with the coders.


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## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 4, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I believe we've got a way to do this, but no promises. =3 Have to talk over the idea with the coders.


 
Thank you for the reply! 
I look forward to hearing on the final word on username changes, please keep us updated. There are a lot of users very interested in this feature  (FYI: I'm to the point that I would actually pay to have mine changed! ).


----------



## RyuuYouki (Jul 4, 2011)

And we are still avoiding the security issues.  I am not one of the people who "attack" dragoneer.  I am a normal user with some VERY valid concerns.  I want to know that I can use the site safely and with out risk of the site going down on a whim.

Now, Dragoneer, I ask you again.  Is security being improved and what steps are you taking to improve it?  Don't just say "we are trying" or a blunt "yes".  Details please.  Im not asking you to post code of specifics, but for some sort of proof.  To many times you have said "they are being worked on" when in fact they haven't been.  I have very little trust in you when it comes to site security and I know I am not alone.


----------



## SwooshyCueb (Jul 4, 2011)

Diocletian said:


> I guess Dragoneer is too busy now to clarify what concrete things the 'update' will deal with and/or start taking actions to fix FA?
> 
> Meanwhile, on FA's facebook he is advising people about fursuiting when its hot:
> 
> ...


 
How do you know that's Dragoneer and not another admin?


----------



## Diocletian (Jul 4, 2011)

SwooshyCueb said:


> How do you know that's Dragoneer and not another admin?


 
Why don't you ask him?

He does the advertising all by himself (doesn't check his e-mails  very often apparently and that's why getting advertising can be very  slow) and FA's twitter account and the front-page news. Banners as well.

Dunno whether to laugh or cry when I see the very next post to my most  recent one was was Dragoneer and it was just more of the same vague  'maybe's and 'possibly's.


----------



## SwooshyCueb (Jul 4, 2011)

Diocletian said:


> Why don't you ask him?


Because I don't care. What I do care about, though, is that even though FA has an entire team of admins, Dragoneer seems to get all the hate. He's not even on the technical staff.
http://www.furaffinity.net/staff/


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## Xenke (Jul 4, 2011)

SwooshyCueb said:


> Because I don't care. What I do care about, though, is that even though FA has an entire team of admins, Dragoneer seems to get all the hate. He's not even on the technical staff.
> http://www.furaffinity.net/staff/


 
That's because he is the head of all the staff, and accountable for all of their actions (or inaction, as the case may be).


----------



## woofwoofwoof (Jul 5, 2011)

Anyway, obv can't comment on its functionality, and no point in making random, derogatory comments, but like, yeah.

The enormous, gray, horizontal indentations are downright offensive, from an aesthetic standpoint.  The curved table corners are the absolute opposite of slick; that's a design choice that my mom would make, as is the hyper-flat color scheme in the tool bar, which is amplified by its lack of borders.  Also, that's a really deceptive place to put the ads: where they are both the most ugly and most likely to be confused with regular submissions.  Also, let's get some Helvetica up in this bitch.


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## timoran (Jul 5, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I believe we've got a way to do this, but no promises. =3 Have to talk over the idea with the coders.



While you're at it, why don't you talk to them about the other things you have promised in this thread. Because every last one of them has probably caught them by surprise.


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## Minotauric (Jul 5, 2011)

Here's a brilliant idea for all of you who can't seem to get over the idea of not being able to change you name- why not use some discernment in creating your FIRST name so you dont have to change it again?  Instead of just whipping one up out of the blue- think about it.

Derp.


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## Aden (Jul 5, 2011)

Minotauric said:


> Here's a brilliant idea for all of you who can't seem to get over the idea of not being able to change you name- why not use some discernment in creating your FIRST name so you dont have to change it again?  Instead of just whipping one up out of the blue- think about it.
> 
> Derp.


 
Exactly. People never change their interests or think of new things later on. I mean, gosh, people, quit whining.


----------



## Diocletian (Jul 5, 2011)

SwooshyCueb said:


> Because I don't care.



If you don't care there is no point in you continuing to reply to the thread. No hate here, rather people fed up with the long term incompetence and failure to resolve problems re security and to deliver on promises made of improving the site and its functioning. It recently took a thread in this forum by a member of staff to push and prod Dragoneer into getting rid of some lazy admins who hadn't done anything for years and Dragoneer still had the gall to curse and swear at members of staff who were trying to do good by FA by prodding him into action.

As for FA having an entire team of admins, in practice they have little influence on or ability to affect FA and it's direction (observe how long it took to and the pains involved in removing lazy admins). Dragoneer doesn't do delegation and never replaced the lead admin who quit some time ago. The technical staff, from what I've heard, have been extremely lax and even lazy when it comes to security issues, however Dragoneer can calll them to account and add to their number or replace them. So far, he chooses not to and so that's on his own head.

Buck stops with him, of his own choice. Currently he seems to choose to fart around on facebook and twitter and make yet more vague promises rather than take concrete actions. 

Perhaps some delegation to the right people might help.


----------



## Sekhmet_Pyralis (Jul 5, 2011)

RyuuYouki said:


> And we are still avoiding the security issues.  I am not one of the people who "attack" dragoneer.  I am a normal user with some VERY valid concerns.  I want to know that I can use the site safely and with out risk of the site going down on a whim.
> 
> Now, Dragoneer, I ask you again.  Is security being improved and what steps are you taking to improve it?  Don't just say "we are trying" or a blunt "yes".  Details please.  Im not asking you to post code of specifics, but for some sort of proof.  To many times you have said "they are being worked on" when in fact they haven't been.  I have very little trust in you when it comes to site security and I know I am not alone.


 
Perhaps you should try on the facebookpage? I seem to have gotten his attention there


----------



## Iovis (Jul 5, 2011)

Instead of multi-posting how about you use the edit button and just edit your post and add shit on?
KTHNXBAI


----------



## Eevee (Jul 6, 2011)

SwooshyCueb said:


> Because I don't care. What I do care about, though, is that even though FA has an entire team of admins, Dragoneer seems to get all the hate. He's not even on the technical staff.


All the former technical staff I've spoken to have indicated that Dragoneer paralyzes the team, and cited that as a reason for leaving.

And he _is_ the leader.  That's what "leader" means: spreading the praise and accepting the blame.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 6, 2011)

Will there be real group pages now instead of just having to link a designated user page?


----------



## Kayze (Jul 6, 2011)

Jared said:


> Will there be real group pages now instead of just having to link a designated user page?


 Whoa whoa whooooa now! You'll be lucky to have gallery folders by the end of the year!


----------



## Minoru (Jul 6, 2011)

Jared said:


> Will there be real group pages now instead of just having to link a designated user page?


 
Well, it does sound like an awesome idea...

Anyway, the new UI looks pretty nice
and really well organized :3


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 6, 2011)

Personally, I'd like to have back end access to the forums. It's not like I haven't run vbull for years on anipike. I just get tired of waiting and feeling like the tech staff in charge don't care about the forums when I know our forum staff does.

Even Concept Art's Jason Manley has given me this offer provided I sign an agreement....but this site....?

I wanted to put in some plug ins and mods - as well as fix them...but oh well :/


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 6, 2011)

Out of curiosity, what is the proposed date range that we can expect this to go 'live'? And can we hold you to it?


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I believe we've got a way to do this, but no promises. =3 Have to talk over the idea with the coders.


 just ask how SoFurry does theirs :V though do put a limit, we dont need that one person who enjoys imitating folks having a field day.


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## Ainoko (Jul 6, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> just ask how SoFurry does theirs :V though do put a limit, we dont need that one person who enjoys imitating folks having a field day.


 
Or even ask Furry2Furry.com or Sofurry.com


----------



## zStorm (Jul 6, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> The species list will eventually be replaced by tags, so if you add "wolf" it automatically tags "lupine wolven wolf wolves" or other variants. When we do this, we'll do an extensive list of species (and poke the community as well). Should also have a bunch of customizable tags, too.


 
Hey Dragoneer,

You mentioned tags in this post with tantalizingly vague language about the timing.  I reckon that adding a tag system will simultaneously solve many disparate problems with the site -- e.g. the infamous species list, usage of warning thumbnails (tagblocked!), and add some long-desired new features, e.g. extensibility, trend-tracking, and social hashtagging.  Do you have any more to say about this planned tagging system, (hopefully) with respect to this update or to the near future?

I'd also suggest tag associations instead of super-population.  If people tag their images "lupine wolven wolf wolves canis_lupis" just reduce it to "wolf."  


I also think an option to browse  art by what's currently popular would be a very helpful feature.  Yes, I know there are deep-set  oppositions to this on grounds of fairness.  I think the e621 scheme is  very effective and relatively unbiased.  Highlighting pictures based on  their popularity is ultimately meritocratic, but more importantly, it  saves time on the part of the end user.  I often don't have a whole hour  to browse through pages and pages of art.  (There's also no reason not to tweak the controls so that it downweights artists with many images in recent highlight, but that's just detail.)  

Many thanks for your hard work; the new UI looks to be a big improvement.  I'm very excited for the update.


----------



## Tiger In A Tie (Jul 6, 2011)

zStorm said:


> I'd also suggest tag associations instead of super-population.  If people tag their images "lupine wolven wolf wolves canis_lupis" just reduce it to "wolf."
> 
> 
> I also think an option to browse  art by what's currently popular would be a very helpful feature.  Yes, I know there are deep-set  oppositions to this on grounds of fairness.  I think the e621 scheme is  very effective and relatively unbiased.  Highlighting pictures based on  their popularity is ultimately meritocratic, but more importantly, it  saves time on the part of the end user.  I often don't have a whole hour  to browse through pages and pages of art.  (There's also no reason not to tweak the controls so that it downweights artists with many images in recent highlight, but that's just detail.)



With the tags thing, I understand you want to make it simpler. But keep in mind, people spell things differently, like "Gryphon" is also spelled Griffen, Griffin, Griffon, and I'm sure there's more. More tags gives a better chance of the image being found when someone does a search.

And I do disagree with the popular art browsing. It's actually one of my favorite things of fA (that they do not have a popularity browsing). I feel like that is a prob at deviantArt, because when a user logs in all they'll see is pictures with over 300 favorites, while artists that are not popular struggle even more to get their art recognized because the bulk of what people will see is popularity art. I love that on fA only the recent uploads are shown, every user who uploads has a MUCH better chance of recognition that way instead of being drowned in the sea of popular art.


----------



## Kayze (Jul 6, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the proposed date range that we can expect this to go 'live'? And can we hold you to it?


 The answers you seek have already been provided. Look and you shall be  rewarded with the same vague answers or unkept promises we've been  accustom to.

 But I'll help ya out. Check one of the following:

 [_] This Summer
 [_] This Fall
 [X] Before the Rapture - maybe



Crysix Fousen said:


> just ask how SoFurry does theirs :V though  do put a limit, we dont need that one person who enjoys imitating folks  having a field day.





Ainoko said:


> Or even ask Furry2Furry.com or Sofurry.com


 
 Except that all those sites have different database data structures, which is the main issue with many things on FA.


----------



## zStorm (Jul 6, 2011)

Nightfire Tiger said:


> And I do disagree with the popular art browsing. It's actually one of my favorite things of fA (that they do not have a popularity browsing). I feel like that is a prob at deviantArt, because when a user logs in all they'll see is pictures with over 300 favorites, while artists that are not popular struggle even more to get their art recognized because the bulk of what people will see is popularity art. I love that on fA only the recent uploads are shown, every user who uploads has a MUCH better chance of recognition that way instead of being drowned in the sea of popular art.


 

I did not mean to suggest that the ranked presentation should replace the standard chronological presentation. I do think it would provide useful functionality to many users which would be beneficial overall to the site as well as the artists themselves.  

I disagree that such a feature would necessarily make it more difficult for new artists for get noticed.  Although some users would certainly substitute the ranked sort for their  current viewing, it is not at all sure that this effect would  dominate over the increase in exposure that a fairly ranked algorithm would enable.  

For example, a ranking algorithm could take into account the ratio of favs to the user's pageviews, which would boost the submissions of up-and-coming artists.  Other factors could also be included in the ranking algorithm to ensure fairness and avoid concentration of submitters.  On reddit.com variations of their ranking algorithm are used to generate "hot," "new," and "top" posts which allow users a customized and balanced view of content.   Of course it may be too demanding computationally to assign multiple rankings to each post in this way, but with some tweaking FA can certainly develop a fair algorithm which increases exposure for talented new artists rather than decreases it.


----------



## StevenRoy (Jul 7, 2011)

*"Also, we apologize for using SQL."*

Regarding Dragoneer's silence regarding security improvements: Can we really expect him to provide detailed examples, in a public forum, of  things people aren't supposed to be able to do? Can we really expect a  (supposedly relatively sane) admin to reply here saying something like,  "For one thing, we're gonna fix a flaw that allows users to hack into  [something] by doing [something], and this fix will take effect when the  new UI comes out. This won't be for a while, so could you all please promise us that you won't  try [something] until then"? I think not!

On the other hand, it's so easy for the rest of us to say "security  issue security issue security issue" ad nauseum, but if we can't  actually _-name-_ a specific issue (and it hasn't already been fixed), then we're _-not-_ helping!

Here's an example of helping: "To hinder attempts to guess a user's password with brute force, have you considered adding a CAPTCHA to the login page and/or a five-second delay to the login process?" (Incidentally, both of these are things I already plan to do on my own site. I even programmed my own CAPTCHA already; it's in PHP but doesn't need GD.)

As for the overall appearance of the mockup: It's better than the current layout in some ways,  worse in others. It's an improvement, but the alternate mockup someone else posted is a bigger improvement. Right now I just hope the new version  looks as good _-on the inside-_ as it does on the outside; right now the  current HTML coding of most pages makes me literally cringe! (And I was  -this- close to volunteering to fix it myself. If I see the new layout and the HTML still makes me cringe, could I volunteer to help fix it?)


----------



## Eevee (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re: "Also, we apologize for using SQL."*

The biggest concerns I have about FA's security are related to process, not particular bugs.  Reported vulnerabilities go unpatched for months and months, until they're exploited and then hastily half-fixed.  Sometimes they do get patched, but not a word about it is breathed either to the public or to the reporter.  I speak from experience here: I reported a pile of serious bugs in October, was ignored until March, and saw one or two fixed in April until the attack in June finally got someone's ass in gear.  (The attack in June was on my list from October.  I had already had a conversation with FA about _how to fix precisely that problem_â€”in October!)

Trivial vulnerabilities continue to surface in new code written for new features.  Session management was (is?  who knows) vulnerable to denial of service and possibly XSS.  Comment hiding didn't even check that you were allowed to hide the particular comment.  These are _simple_ things, and they are brand new, so they can't be blamed on FA's "bad code" legacy.  So what the hell kind of disastrous problems are going to come along with an entire new UI, new comment system, etc.?

I don't know about the rabblers, but I'm most interested in knowing what FA is going to do to take security more seriously.  So far, the attitude seems to be what it's always been: FA doesn't care until something's on fire.



StevenRoy said:


> (Incidentally, both of these are things I already plan to do on my own site. I even programmed my own CAPTCHA already; it's in PHP but doesn't need GD.)


Writing your own CAPTCHA is about as effective as writing your own hash function, or building a custom lock for your front door: it's "secure" until someone actually targets you.


----------



## DarkOverord (Jul 7, 2011)

I apologise if this has been asked and thus answered. But I'm being lazy (Sorry again!)

When the new UI rolls out. Will "Submission has been deleted by the owner." or "Journal has been deleted by the owner." stop appearing?

Will we now be able to choose what we watch from a user? Afterall, sometimes we don't want to see all the journals and scraps a user submits (Plus it would clutter my inbox less >.>; )


----------



## Kayze (Jul 7, 2011)

*Re: "Also, we apologize for using SQL."*



StevenRoy said:


> Regarding Dragoneer's silence regarding security improvements: Can we really expect him to provide detailed examples, in a public forum, of  things people aren't supposed to be able to do? Can we really expect a  (supposedly relatively sane) admin to reply here saying something like,  "For one thing, we're gonna fix a flaw that allows users to hack into  [something] by doing [something], and this fix will take effect when the  new UI comes out. This won't be for a while, so could you all please promise us that you won't  try [something] until then"? I think not!



If it's fixed, it shouldn't matter if someone knows how it was exploited, cause it should be FIXED. If it does matter, then it's not fixed. But if you mean him replying about a future fix, why does he have to say how to exploit it? Your logic is flawed and the argument was already used in this thread.


----------



## Ainoko (Jul 7, 2011)

Ainoko said:


> Or even ask Furry2Furry.com or Sofurry.com


 


Kayze said:


> The answers you seek have already been provided. Look and you shall be  rewarded with the same vague answers or unkept promises we've been  accustom to.
> 
> But I'll help ya out. Check one of the following:
> 
> ...


 
I am aware of that for the last part, but it doesn't hurt to talk to the other admins of lose sites to get an idea as to what coding can be used


----------



## Verin Asper (Jul 7, 2011)

Kayze said:


> Except that all those sites have different database data structures, which is the main issue with many things on FA.


 which I was really hoping they would improve upon thier database structure...then again the new UI is simply "A pretty house that sits in front of a HORRIBLE back yard


----------



## Rinz (Jul 7, 2011)

woofwoofwoof said:


> Also, let's get some Helvetica up in this bitch.



Dear god, NO.

If you have a font to default to for no other reason than "It's Helvetica" then you don't deserve the right to have a graphic design opinion.


----------



## Aden (Jul 7, 2011)

Rinz said:


> Dear god, NO.
> 
> If you have a font to default to for no other reason than "It's Helvetica" then you don't deserve the right to have a graphic design opinion.


 
I really fucking like Helvetica, but FA is not a very fitting site for it. My default sans is Trebuchet MS, that might work here.


----------



## Aaros (Jul 7, 2011)

All I can say is, I hope the emphasis on feedback and userpages in the design doesn't change. I like how prominent profile information, recent journals, and especially page shouts are on userpages right now. 
I hope the layout of userpages doesn't change at all, personally.


----------



## Devious Bane (Jul 7, 2011)

Aaros said:


> All I can say is, I hope the emphasis on feedback and userpages in the design doesn't change. I like how prominent profile information, recent journals, and especially page shouts are on userpages right now.
> I hope the layout of userpages doesn't change at all, personally.


Agreed.


----------



## porsche454 (Jul 8, 2011)

So, will we be given the ability to test drive the new UI, and report all bugs and little things that don't work. I'd love to help, and get to help???


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## Devious Bane (Jul 9, 2011)

Most likely it's just going to get tossed in like the last update: Abruptly and with little prior notice, as well as having no way to change it back. This way they can avoid all the pre-release drama and jump right into the post-traumatic bullsh*t we all love and enjoy.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, we can refer to the Youtube layout change. Despite 99.9% of the comments saying "No" or "Keep the old layout an option", people only got the exact opposite.

All you can contribute in the meantime is what to do after you've worked your way into exploiting design, which most of my colleagues get boners discussing.


----------



## porsche454 (Jul 9, 2011)

Lol, okay. I will then not login for a week or so, in order to avoid the furry drama that comes right after people find the little kinks and nodules left open or incomplete........


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## Devious Bane (Jul 9, 2011)

Your loss, we're actually looking forward to it.


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## celestialsunberry (Jul 10, 2011)

Oh,  seriously, people. -Snort- If you honestly think lashing out at Dragoneer is going to help, you're not only childish but stupid. If someone came up to you and started whining and moaning, you'd be LESS likely to do something for that person. You ALL are getting a FREE ride, INCLUDING myself. The very fact you can post your porn, and your art, and a gazillion journals, is BECAUSE of Dragoneer. Does the UI look any different from most of the art sites? Not really. I think that it's because it's gray. (Blegh; but I'm sure they'll get better.) Personally, I welcome a more user-friendly UI, mainly because I feel that FA is VERY outdated and should have moved on with the times a long time ago. But sincerely, people, give the guy a FREAKING BREAK. Stop moaning, stop crying. If you actually have something worthwhile to post/say, then do that. Not everyone is going to be happy; that's how it is. And sometimes, you just gotta do things. This is one of those things.

I really do hope that there is a feature to weed through the porn vs the artistic nudes. (I did see it mentioned...I just truly hope that is the case.)

At any rate, I welcome these changes, and I welcome the feedback we'll be able to give you.


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## Aden (Jul 10, 2011)

celestialsunberry said:


> The very fact you can post your porn, and your art, and a gazillion journals, is BECAUSE of Dragoneer.


 
um



> The site was created in 2005 by Alkora as an alternative to various art community sites such as SheezyArt and deviantART


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2011)

I still call him Jheryn but I believe he was Byakko Wolf too http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Alkora

In which FA was based off of modified http://sourceforge.net/projects/devoybb/

PS. I was one of FA's beta/bug squashers before Dragoneer got the site from Jheryn after his fallout with Arcturus.


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## Firehazard (Jul 10, 2011)

Rossyfox said:


> Unless FA is pretty much recoded from the ground up I don't think it will be possible to change usernames.


 
I'm not an expert, but I think a few tweaks to the database handling code and a run-once script to import the database data into a new database with additional fields would do the trick. They'll need to do that to make some of the other planned changes anyway, like the mature filter which I think is a binary field right now. The biggest issue is time added to the changeover process.


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## theLight (Jul 10, 2011)

While you're at it, put the server on CloudFlare https://www.cloudflare.com/ so users can stop being afraid of teh bandwidth wastes, DoS/DDoS attacks, and the site gets a speed upgrade without you guys having to fix optimization issues


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## Ben (Jul 10, 2011)

While we're talking about UI updates, it seems SoFurry has announced the release of their public beta for one week from today. Is anyone else going to give it a test-drive once it comes out?

Some screenshots from the update.


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## Aden (Jul 10, 2011)

Ben said:


> While we're talking about UI updates, it seems SoFurry has announced the release of their public beta for one week from today. Is anyone else going to give it a test-drive once it comes out?
> 
> Some screenshots from the update.


 
Does the new UI make it not so...sofurry
if so I'll give it a shot


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## theLight (Jul 10, 2011)

Ben said:


> While we're talking about UI updates, it seems SoFurry has announced the release of their public beta for one week from today. Is anyone else going to give it a test-drive once it comes out?
> 
> Some screenshots from the update.



All these bad design choices, where do they all come from? All these bad design choices, where do they all belong? But then again, this is sofurry we're talking about.


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## Ben (Jul 10, 2011)

The screenshots I'm seeing certainly give the impression, Aden. Honestly, anything would be an improvement over the cluttered mess that the current SF layout has. I still think someone should take the name Crittr.org, but oh well.

And what's so bad about them, Light? Certainly looks like a massive improvement to me, unless I'm missing something.


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## theLight (Jul 10, 2011)

Ben said:


> The screenshots I'm seeing certainly give the impression, Aden. Honestly, anything would be an improvement over the cluttered mess that the current SF layout has. I still think someone should take the name Crittr.org, but oh well.
> 
> And what's so bad about them, Light? Certainly looks like a massive improvement to me, unless I'm missing something.



An improvement? Definitely. 
Good? No.



When your button text is bordering on escaping your buttons' borders, it's time to resize the font.
Why the four dolled-up links and then a bland, non-centered nav below that? CLUTTER-TASTIC!
That iconset. Sersiously, it's kinda making me sick.
SUPER-SMOOTH RECTANGLES. Corner-smoothing is nice, and throwing in sharp corners balances the feel of the page, but not when you set the curve radius to a fourth of the actual rectangle, lol.
Overly-large footers kind of annoy me. I browse inkbunny occasionally and that damn footer kills me, it's larger than an actual row of submissions. IB was sorta smart about it though, and made it kind of blend in by making it really dark and neutral, but this layout tries to pass it off as a piece of the layout that should be blatantly seen when you scroll down.
(Messenging interface) I honestly don't get the trend of hueg sans serif fonts and gradient backgrounds for headers. It makes no sense with the layout anyway, because it looks like the reason the buttons are having trouble holding their labels is that the headers are eating them.
That dark highlighting for input forms. The fuck? There are no light-on-dark elements on the whole page besides the menu bar and buttons, it looks completely out of place.
Those bleedin radio buttons. Goatse option pre-packaged.

Besides those things, I am actually okay with it.


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## timoran (Jul 10, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> I'm not an expert, but I think a few tweaks to the database handling code and a run-once script to import the database data into a new database with additional fields would do the trick. They'll need to do that to make some of the other planned changes anyway, like the mature filter which I think is a binary field right now. The biggest issue is time added to the changeover process.


 
You're right.
You're not an expert.
I explained how it could be done earlier in the thread, and then Eevee pointed out an additional step that would need to be done...


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## Xenke (Jul 10, 2011)

Ben said:


> While we're talking about UI updates, it seems SoFurry has announced the release of their public beta for one week from today. Is anyone else going to give it a test-drive once it comes out?
> 
> Some screenshots from the update.


 
Maybe it's just personal preference, since I'm not an expert on these things, but that thing is an eyesore.

Who picked that color scheme? I can't tell if that brownish purple color is trying to seduce me or make me think I'm in a professional environment. In either case, it's failing. What was wrong with the blue color scheme they had right now? It's a better color choice than they thing the schlepped on there.

Why is the text so big on everything?  Granted there's that myth about fapping and eyesight, but goddamn. I'm not an old lady, don't give me old lady font.

Why aren't the text fields all the same color? That's just stupid. They should all either be tan or they should all be brown. Don't mix and match this shit.

Those are just some grievances.


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## Pravda (Jul 10, 2011)

Firehazard said:


> I think a few tweaks to the database handling code and a run-once script to import the database data into a new database with additional fields would do the trick.


 
You know, they *had* an _entirely rewritten_ site with an import script. Maybe you could ask whatever happened to that.


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## Aden (Jul 11, 2011)

Ben said:


> The screenshots I'm seeing certainly give the impression, Aden. Honestly, anything would be an improvement over the cluttered mess that the current SF layout has.


 
Oh I ain't talking about the layout :V


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## Verin Asper (Jul 11, 2011)

Ben said:


> The screenshots I'm seeing certainly give the impression, Aden. Honestly, anything would be an improvement over the cluttered mess that the current SF layout has. I still think someone should take the name Crittr.org, but oh well.
> 
> And what's so bad about them, Light? Certainly looks like a massive improvement to me, unless I'm missing something.


 not to mention SoFurry have planned to Open Beta their NEW Layout next week over FA's "we'll do it soon"


Xenke said:


> Maybe it's just personal preference, since I'm not an expert on these things, but that thing is an eyesore.
> 
> Who  picked that color scheme? I can't tell if that brownish purple color is  trying to seduce me or make me think I'm in a professional environment.  In either case, it's failing. What was wrong with the blue color scheme  they had right now? It's a better color choice than they thing the  schlepped on there.
> 
> ...


 at least they are allowing the rest of the user to test run it, I actually hope they would allow furs over there to set up their own layout color choices.

Edit: apparently yes over at SoFurry they will have several designs in the future, but still hopefully allowing users to ultimately allow their own layout would be nice


----------



## Xenke (Jul 11, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> at least they are allowing the rest of the user to test run it, I actually hope they would allow furs over there to set up their own layout color choices.


 
Only if it's only visible to each individual user. I would not want to see some of the shit schemes people would make.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 11, 2011)

Xenke said:


> Only if it's only visible to each individual user. I would not want to see some of the shit schemes people would make.


 yea @_@, I'll be expecting someone going NEON on everything if they make it we see their layout


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## Xenke (Jul 11, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> yea @_@, I'll be expecting someone going NEON on everything if they make it we see their layout


 
It's more like:

My SF is all brown.
I like poop.


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## Rinz (Jul 11, 2011)

With the new updates, are you guys going to streamline submission deletion? It may not stop something like the current situation where FA's out of space, but it could help slow it down. I know I, for one, would be more inclined to delete submissions that are no longer needed (way old work, sketches, etc) if I could delete multiples. It'd also be kind of neat if users could set a particular age for pictures to be on a queue for deletion (like two years or so). It could either auto-delete or notify the user of these old images and ask whether or not they should be deleted. I imagine it would be a lot easier than digging through several pages of submissions, especially for users who upload a lot.


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## Growly (Jul 11, 2011)

Rinz said:


> With the new updates, are you guys going to streamline submission deletion? It may not stop something like the current situation where FA's out of space, but it could help slow it down. I know I, for one, would be more inclined to delete submissions that are no longer needed (way old work, sketches, etc) if I could delete multiples. It'd also be kind of neat if users could set a particular age for pictures to be on a queue for deletion (like two years or so). It could either auto-delete or notify the user of these old images and ask whether or not they should be deleted. I imagine it would be a lot easier than digging through several pages of submissions, especially for users who upload a lot.



GOD YES, this.
Okay, here's my dilemma. I want to delete loads of old embarrassing shit and sketches. I have over 1200 submissions as of this writing
The submission deletion page is really really hard to use. It starts at page 1. I click next page sixteen times and finally get to page 17 and delete one image. Then it sends me to my main gallery page, where I have to go click "Control Panel", "Manage Submissions", then click seventeen times to get to page 18. Lather, rinse, repeat. I want to delete those images one day, but I don't care quite enough to spend hours doing so.


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## sorryinSPACE (Jul 11, 2011)

Growly said:


> GOD YES, this.
> Okay, here's my dilemma. I want to delete loads of old embarrassing shit and sketches. I have over 1200 submissions as of this writing
> The submission deletion page is really really hard to use. It starts at page 1. I click next page sixteen times and finally get to page 17 and delete one image. Then it sends me to my main gallery page, where I have to go click "Control Panel", "Manage Submissions", then click seventeen times to get to page 18. Lather, rinse, repeat. I want to delete those images one day, but I don't care quite enough to spend hours doing so.



I totally agree with you and Rinz. The deletion system on FA is extremely primitive. Granted I don't have as many submissions as you do, but it's still a long and grueling task when I want to delete lots of images in my scraps section.


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## Eevee (Jul 11, 2011)

It seems kind of strange to _help you_ delete large chunks of the site's content _more efficiently_.

Why do you care if you have old, bad art up?  Do you have fans under the impression that you were born as skilled as you are now?

Open source programming doesn't even offer the choice; old bad code is preserved forever.  You'll live.  >:T


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## Ben (Jul 11, 2011)

Growly said:


> GOD YES, this.
> Okay, here's my dilemma. I want to delete loads of old embarrassing shit and sketches. I have over 1200 submissions as of this writing
> The submission deletion page is really really hard to use. It starts at page 1. I click next page sixteen times and finally get to page 17 and delete one image. Then it sends me to my main gallery page, where I have to go click "Control Panel", "Manage Submissions", then click seventeen times to get to page 18. Lather, rinse, repeat. I want to delete those images one day, but I don't care quite enough to spend hours doing so.



...You do have a back button, don't you? I don't like FA as much as anyone else, but there's a pretty clear logical gap here.


----------



## sorryinSPACE (Jul 12, 2011)

Ben said:


> ...You do have a back button, don't you? I don't like FA as much as anyone else, but there's a pretty clear logical gap here.


 
It's still annoying.
I mean you hit the back button, then you have to refresh to have it update the page, then you have to delete, rinse and repeat.
It just seems more logical to have the same feature of deletion of your own submissions as you do for your submission inbox.


----------



## Rinz (Jul 12, 2011)

Eevee said:


> It seems kind of strange to _help you_ delete large chunks of the site's content _more efficiently_.
> 
> Why do you care if you have old, bad art up?  Do you have fans under the impression that you were born as skilled as you are now?
> 
> Open source programming doesn't even offer the choice; old bad code is preserved forever.  You'll live.  >:T


 No, I don't have any fans like that, but I also like to treat my gallery as a gallery, not an archive. I use my gallery to showcase artwork that I personally choose to showcase, and like a real gallery, I like to get rid of older works for newer stuff that is more representative of my skill level. Sure, I could leave older stuff, but it would really only be as a benchmark sort of thing, and I could just as easily have something along those veins on my sketch blog.


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## Eevee (Jul 12, 2011)

It sounds like a less destructive solution would be better art organization, so you could just pick what you think is your best and present it as such.


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## Browder (Jul 12, 2011)

Eevee said:


> It sounds like a less destructive solution would be better art organization, so you could just pick what you think is your best and present it as such.


 Maybe different gallery 'files' like deviant art does?  'd like to see that personally. I always liked those since it gave me a feel for what the artist considered to be part of the same compendium of work.


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## Verin Asper (Jul 12, 2011)

Ben said:


> ...You do have a back button, don't you? I don't like FA as much as anyone else, but there's a pretty clear logical gap here.


 I use the tabbing system to delete submissions...just still very annoying that you can only do it one at a time instead of a mass


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2011)

gatorguts said:


> It's still annoying.
> I mean you hit the back button, then you have to refresh to have it update the page, then you have to delete, rinse and repeat.
> It just seems more logical to have the same feature of deletion of your own submissions as you do for your submission inbox.


 
Oh sure, the system could definitely be improved, I'm just pointing out it's nowhere near as bad as that post just described. I should also point out that you can get to page 17 in your submissions by adding 16 to the end of http://www.furaffinity.net/controls/submissions/. It's not really a clean way to do it, but just saying, this is a pretty minor issue as far as things go.

I've found that if you have quick fingers, you can send delete multiple images at once. Click delete, confirm, and then before you get forwarded to the next page, rapidly click the next delete button and confirm, and both images will end up deleting. Just try to do that as many times as possible until you mess up and get taken away from the page.


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## Syntex (Jul 12, 2011)

theLight said:


> All these bad design choices, where do they all come from? All these bad design choices, where do they all belong? But then again, this is sofurry we're talking about.



I really gotta agree with you on this one, but as always, we'll get used to it, and get over it, continue using the site, who are we to complain when it would literally do nothing to affect their progress?

All I gotta say to dragoneer is to get a mobile design for FA as well :3


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## dopy (Jul 12, 2011)

Syntex said:


> I really gotta agree with you on this one, but as always, we'll get used to it, and get over it, continue using the site, who are we to complain when it would literally do nothing to affect their progress?
> 
> All I gotta say to dragoneer is to get a mobile design for FA as well :3



Yes a mobile design would be REALLY handy, I don't quite like the new UI... but as my girlfriend said, we'd get used to it, it happened to DA, it happens every month with youtube, we complain and whine, but afterwards we just shut up and deal with it. I don't quite think this ui update is needed though, if anything Neer should fix all the security issues, as said countless times already in this thread.


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## sorryinSPACE (Jul 12, 2011)

Syntex said:


> I really gotta agree with you on this one, but as always, we'll get used to it, and get over it, continue using the site, who are we to complain when it would literally do nothing to affect their progress?
> 
> All I gotta say to dragoneer is to get a mobile design for FA as well :3


 

I remember months back something being said about a mobile UI in the works (or being planned?), but it was never brought up again.
ATM, I think FA has enough problems then to worry about a mobile UI -- though it would be neat.


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## Rossyfox (Jul 12, 2011)

If you were accessing FA on a mobile device, doesn't that mean you'd be accessing it... in public?

how embarassing


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## Eevee (Jul 12, 2011)

Mobile should be pretty much the lowest priority.  There are hundreds of better things for FA to devote resources to.  Most phones have real browsers now; use them.


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## LolitaOfTheVoid (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm not sure if someone's asked this already or not, but with the new coding will stories have a better layout? It's really frustrating with the current system, where it will mangle your punctuation or spacing if you don't save it as just the right type of .txt file.


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## kayfox (Jul 13, 2011)

LolitaOfTheVoid said:


> I'm not sure if someone's asked this already or not, but with the new coding will stories have a better layout? It's really frustrating with the current system, where it will mangle your punctuation or spacing if you don't save it as just the right type of .txt file.



Do you have an example perchance?


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## Verin Asper (Jul 13, 2011)

kayfox said:


> Do you have an example perchance?


 Well look at this story
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6108985/
notice all those Question marks inside Diamonds


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## thoron (Jul 13, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Well look at this story
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6108985/
> notice all those Question marks inside Diamonds



An easy temporary fix for that is to right-click on the browsing screen, go to encoding, and select Western Europe (Windows). Works almost every time for me. 

Though it would be nice if eventually that wasn't necessary.


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## Foxxel (Jul 13, 2011)

Personally, I like the style.
It's kinda a mix of DA sorta. But not to much to give it the look.
To me, I see this as the current FA UI is like a beta of FA. This UI will define FA as it should be.

I do believe, however, that people replying about security should be told something. (If you have sorry, I haven't had much time to go around the forms) Just not giving any specific details on what is being used.

I'd also very much like (as I saw in one of the replys) if you could make the General, Mature, and Adult be able to properly view [Guests: General/Users: General, Mature (Optional)/Users Adult: General/ Mature (Optional)/ Adult (Optional)]

When would all of us be able to see some kind of Beta UI? Or is this going to happen overnight in one go and that's it? (Just to add on, will there be any better colors as to a theme? Like instead of having "Light" and "Dark" maybe mixing it up and having White and Orange, Green and Brown, Ect.? Or would that be something as a future add-on?)


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## Growly (Jul 13, 2011)

Eevee said:


> It seems kind of strange to _help you_ delete large chunks of the site's content _more efficiently_.
> 
> Why do you care if you have old, bad art up?  Do you have fans under the impression that you were born as skilled as you are now?
> 
> Open source programming doesn't even offer the choice; old bad code is preserved forever.  You'll live.  >:T



Some of it has my RL name on it, some of it is embarrassing photos, some of it are things that have about 10 views, no comments, and no faves- no one will miss them, especially with 1200+ submissions.  Why I want to delete my stuff is my own perogative.


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## Growly (Jul 13, 2011)

Ben said:


> ...You do have a back button, don't you? I don't like FA as much as anyone else, but there's a pretty clear logical gap here.


 
It wasn't meant to be done that way, it should be in the interface to stay on page __ of the deletion screen after deleting a submission.
Back button works okay, but of course it doesn't refresh the display.

Some of my submissions are so far back it feels like I'm clicking forever.
What I really really want is for each page to have a "Delete this image" button, next to Change submission file. So that way I can use FA's search to find exactly the images I want (or be reminded of them when people fave them out of the blue), then go to that page and just clic the handy delete button.
It would also be spiffy cool if there was an alternate view to view all submissions then use check boxes to mass delete things instantly.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jul 13, 2011)

Growly said:


> It wasn't meant to be done that way, it should be in the interface to stay on page __ of the deletion screen after deleting a submission.
> Back button works okay, but of course it doesn't refresh the display.
> 
> Some of my submissions are so far back it feels like I'm clicking forever.
> ...



Having a delete this "Next to the image" might turn into a headache for people who might accidentally click that instead of the picture or something. If it could have a prompt to say "Are you sure" than that would be spiffy. Then you can't accidentally delete an image.


----------



## Aden (Jul 13, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> Having a delete this "Next to the image" might turn into a headache for people who might accidentally click that instead of the picture or something. If it could have a prompt to say "Are you sure" than that would be spiffy. Then you can't accidentally delete an image.


 
Heck, if we ever get an ambitious coding team for FA, we could get mass submission actions from the gallery view - check x number of submissions and then press 'delete' (or 'move' if folders are ever coded), just like journal notifications.


----------



## LolitaOfTheVoid (Jul 13, 2011)

kayfox said:


> Do you have an example perchance?


 
As a matter of fact, I have several.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6096466

That story was written centered, due to it's journal-like formatting, and even saving it with the correct encoding and options selected via word (*allow character substitution*) it looks like a hot mess. Some of the line breaks didn't even translate, though they are there in the original file.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5183159

That is a story of my husband's, in which all of his indentation and line breaks didn't come through, though, as stated above, they ARE there in the original file.


It does the same thing for every part of his novel he's uploaded.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5401013

Also, as someone else mentioned, it'll just show diamonds or boxes for punctuation if you didn't save your file as JUST the right type- the only one I've found to work is Microsoft 2007 .txt with the allow character substitution box checked. Even then it misses some once in a while.


----------



## Growly (Jul 14, 2011)

Trpdwarf said:


> Having a delete this "Next to the image" might turn into a headache for people who might accidentally click that instead of the picture or something. If it could have a prompt to say "Are you sure" than that would be spiffy. Then you can't accidentally delete an image.


 
But of course.  A delete button without a confirmation dialog box would be horrible!


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 15, 2011)

Eevee said:


> Mobile should be pretty much the lowest priority.  There are hundreds of better things for FA to devote resources to.  Most phones have real browsers now; use them.


 
My phone doesnt have that. (Only has a prepaid tracphone, not that its any of your business) and I use my psp 1001 to access the net during lunch breaks at work to check messages (and psp 1001 only has 32mb ram which results in alot of not enough memory errors)

So thats why a mobile UI would be good. But I agree I'd rather have the folder systems and such implemented first.


----------



## Kiszka (Jul 16, 2011)

Okay, I'm just going to say that I approve of the changes. 

Secondly, you can't please everyone. If everyone wants to have a stick up their butt about the site finally getting an overhaul, then they can just go make their own. (Which obviously ain't going to happen.) I honestly wouldn't put TOO much thought into every single person who comes on here and whines about how such and such isn't perfect. No one is forcing you to stay here, if you hate it, Leave.


----------



## Accountability (Jul 16, 2011)

Kiszka said:


> Secondly, you can't please everyone. If everyone wants to have a stick up their butt about the site finally getting an overhaul, then they can just go make their own. (Which obviously ain't going to happen.)


 
Woah, woah.

Stop.

Stop right there.

You are aware there are _at least two_ active projects to create a new furry art gallery in progress right now by a number of people that have been campaigning for FA to overhaul their code, right? And if you do know this, and you're implying Eevee and Pi and them are _obviously not making their own_ because _they're not 100% done yet_, then you probably don't understand why we're here today.


----------



## Kiszka (Jul 17, 2011)

Accountability said:


> Woah, woah.
> 
> Stop.
> 
> ...


 
You missed the part where I said 'Everyone'. Two people making new sites.. whoop-dee-freaking-doo. That would have happened anyways, and IF they are making them exclusively BECAUSE they hate FA so much.. they probably need to get a life.
Also, if new sites going up meant the downfall of FA, then that would have happened forever ago. People whine and bitch, but guess what? The majority of them don't leave. You want to know how I know? deviantArt.


----------



## DragonTalon (Jul 17, 2011)

Dragoneer said:


> I'd like to see us implement a "disable color tag" option in the Control Panel. Some people use colors nicely. Some people vomit colors. Personally, I am not a fan of people who abuse colors to the point it looks like a clown was stabbed and left to die on their page*. Rainbow is not an appealing palette choice.



Two suggestions here.  One, I like colors.. I used to use them so my links were a different color than bold.  Thats broken now, but I hope it will be fixed with the update.  If I put a link in I want it to be clear it's a link.  It was nice to be able to make a nice underlined, blue link like web pages used to use.  XD

The second.... letting people pick site themes is good.  Letting people pick text colors for profiles and such is good.

Both together is bad.  Very bad!   Because no matter what color I might use to highlight or emphasize something, at least half the site will see it as unreadable.  Part of what makes FA look unprofessional is profiles designed for a scheme I am not using.  Walls of text I can't read because it matched the background color.

It would be nice if the site picked a readable, but SINGLE theme.  My opinion anyway.


----------



## Devious Bane (Jul 17, 2011)

This just in, you can plaster "_I AM GAY_" with the rainbow spectrum. Though last I checked, you can already do that.

On a more serious note, I'm confused to what we're discussing when it comes to viewing "schemes".
Are we talking about A) people choosing a viewable format of their preference to navigate the site or B) fancier ways to make your page look?
If you chose A, I don't think many people would complain about having different "skins" to view the site in(since the current layout can be a viewable skin)
If you chose B, you can refer to my less serious note.

PS: B&W should be a viewable skin.


----------



## Werewolfhero (Jul 18, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> This just in, you can plaster "_I AM GAY_" with the rainbow spectrum. Though last I checked, you can already do that.
> 
> On a more serious note, I'm confused to what we're discussing when it comes to viewing "schemes".
> Are we talking about A) people choosing a viewable format of their preference to navigate the site or B) fancier ways to make your page look?
> ...



Agreed because I kinda prefer darker color themes (skins) with light text because they're easier on my eyes to read. Then you have others who prefer the opposite (nearly stark white color themes with plain black text).  Giving members the option to chose between the two makes it easier for both sides.


----------



## Rinz (Jul 19, 2011)

Werewolfhero said:


> Agreed because I kinda prefer darker color themes (skins) with light text because they're easier on my eyes to read. Then you have others who prefer the opposite (nearly stark white color themes with plain black text).  Giving members the option to chose between the two makes it easier for both sides.


 
On top of making things easier to read, it also helps me in viewing artwork. The light color scheme messes with the colors too much and either makes them look darker than they're supposed to be, or it just makes my eyes hurt trying to look at them at all.


----------



## Devious Bane (Jul 20, 2011)

Rinz said:


> On top of making things easier to read, it also helps me in viewing artwork. The light color scheme messes with the colors too much and either makes them look darker than they're supposed to be, or it just makes my eyes hurt trying to look at them at all.


 Certain colors and lighting causes one's eyes to involuntarily vibrate, inducing headaches and obscured vision. This affects some people more than others, but I certainly wouldn't want to check my updates on FA and get blinded by a screen that is mostly white or red.


----------



## GreenReaper (Jul 22, 2011)

"Your screen made my eyeballs vibrate!"

That sounds pretty cool, actually.


----------



## Iovis (Aug 31, 2011)

So about this *Autumn** Winter Update*... I think it's time for a status update. A status update that should have been posted WEEKS ago. Cue Dragoneer.

What the fuck is going on?


----------



## MandertehPander (Aug 31, 2011)

I was wondering the same thing myself.


----------



## Devious Bane (Aug 31, 2011)

Wonder no more.


----------



## Armaetus (Aug 31, 2011)

Summer's almost over, what's the holdup? :6


----------



## Accountability (Aug 31, 2011)

Glaice said:


> Summer's almost over, what's the holdup? :6



They never said Summer _2011_.


----------



## ampersandestet (Sep 1, 2011)

Accountability said:


> They never said Summer _2011_.



Actually. . . 
http://help.furaffinity.net/article/AA-00219/16/Whats-the-Status-of-the-New-UI.html


> *Q: *What's the Status of the New UI?
> 
> *A: *Currently, plans for the new FA UI are for a Summer 2011 launch. We're aiming to have the new UI in beta (along with significant site changes) sometime in late May.


 (http://help.furaffinity.net/article/AA-00219/16/Whats-the-Status-of-the-New-UI.html)
Then again, 2011 is probably a typo.


----------



## Devious Bane (Sep 1, 2011)

ampersandestet said:


> Then again, 2011 is probably a typo.


Cool story bro.


----------



## Grandpriest (Sep 2, 2011)

The site works?  Yes.
The site is completely free?  Yes.
The options on the site are fine?  Yes.
There *are* things being done with the site?  Yes.

With these aspects known, why is there nothing but complain after complaint?  Ya, we get it.  It's a late update that might never arrive.  What's the point?  Having it repeated a thousand times isn't going to do anything or get anywhere.

If you don't like the site, you can leave.  If you do like the site, how about saying so instead of dissing a place you frequently visit?

This isn't made to attack anyone, btw.  This is just to give a different, positive perspective on the situation that isn't being looked at now by many people.


----------



## Xenke (Sep 2, 2011)

Grandpriest said:


> The site works?  Yes.
> The site is completely free?  Yes.
> The options on the site are fine?  Yes.
> There *are* things being done with the site?  Yes.
> ...



blah blah blah most generic site argument blah blah blah

blah blah blah trust promises accountablility blah blah blah

There, I saved everyone else the trouble.


----------



## Grandpriest (Sep 2, 2011)

You don't speak for everyone else, I assure you.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Sep 2, 2011)

Grandpriest said:


> You don't speak for everyone else, I assure you.



I can assure you that you don't either.

I WANT to see improvements. While some of the complaints are too much, many are valid. FA needs an overhaul and sometimes you have to nag a bit to do it, not just for user reliability but help for the admins who work on this site too.


----------



## Accountability (Sep 2, 2011)

Grandpriest said:


> The site works?  Yes.
> The options on the site are fine?  Yes.
> There *are* things being done with the site?  Yes.



Those are all debatable. :grin:


----------



## Armaetus (Sep 4, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> I can assure you that you don't either.
> 
> I WANT to see improvements. While some of the complaints are too much, many are valid. FA needs an overhaul and sometimes you have to nag a bit to do it, not just for user reliability but help for the admins who work on this site too.



It seems pressure is _necessary_ for the most part for stuff to actually get done, which it shouldn't like any other website.


----------



## Foxxel (Sep 9, 2011)

An idea (because I had ran into this problem back in 08 and it still is happening to some people), being able to block some one from your WHOLE profile instead of blocking them from commenting and faving (I think faving). Because I had blocked someone and they use to (they came back) copying the profile info. Now this person hasn't done it again yet, but I have known a few people that it's happened to and the whole time it's trolls. I think when blocking a user you should be able to block the person from seeing your whole profile and submissions.... Basically everything.


----------



## CannonFodder (Sep 9, 2011)

Foxxel said:


> An idea (because I had ran into this problem back in 08 and it still is happening to some people), being able to block some one from your WHOLE profile instead of blocking them from commenting and faving (I think faving). Because I had blocked someone and they use to (they came back) copying the profile info. Now this person hasn't done it again yet, but I have known a few people that it's happened to and the whole time it's trolls. I think when blocking a user you should be able to block the person from seeing your whole profile and submissions.... Basically everything.


That's a terrible idea!


----------



## Foxxel (Sep 9, 2011)

Well not really.
I just hate when you block someone and you think that there going to stop but thee not.
They don't just steal your profile info, but they steal everything off of your profile. Submissions, Journals, everything.


----------



## Xenke (Sep 9, 2011)

Foxxel said:


> Well not really.
> I just hate when you block someone and you think that there going to stop but thee not.
> They don't just steal your profile info, but they steal everything off of your profile. Submissions, Journals, everything.



What's to stop them from blocking you so that you never even know you're stealing their identity?

What's to stop faux-artists from getting several commissioners and then blocking them from their profiles?

Etc.

I don't like this idea.


----------



## Foxxel (Sep 9, 2011)

Xenke said:


> What's to stop them from blocking you so that you never even know you're stealing their identity?
> 
> What's to stop faux-artists from getting several commissioners and then blocking them from their profiles?
> 
> ...


I see where your going to. But with the fox thing, thats a bit to much drama lama over....


----------



## Xenke (Sep 9, 2011)

Foxxel said:


> I see where your going to. But with the fox thing, thats a bit to much drama lama over....







Did you just confuse the word "faux" with "fox"?


----------



## Aden (Sep 9, 2011)

Foxxel said:


> Well not really.
> I just hate when you block someone and you think that there going to stop but thee not.
> They don't just steal your profile info, but they steal everything off of your profile. Submissions, Journals, everything.



So block them from your page and then hope _real hard_ that they don't figure out how to log out.


----------



## Accountability (Sep 10, 2011)

Foxxel said:


> An idea (because I had ran into this problem back in 08 and it still is happening to some people), being able to block some one from your WHOLE profile instead of blocking them from commenting and faving (I think faving). Because I had blocked someone and they use to (they came back) copying the profile info. Now this person hasn't done it again yet, but I have known a few people that it's happened to and the whole time it's trolls. I think when blocking a user you should be able to block the person from seeing your whole profile and submissions.... Basically everything.



There's one flaw to ideas like this, and it affects every site with a blocklist.

It's the "log out" button.


----------



## Ben (Sep 10, 2011)

Well, you could always make everyone's IPs visible and make the block system work like that, but somehow I don't think that's the sort of idea that will get off the ground.

EDIT: That or when you block someone, it also blocks their IP, but the system doesn't tell you what it is. That makes more sense. Actually, that makes perfect sense. I'm just not sure how you'd code it.


----------



## Armaetus (Sep 10, 2011)

@Foxxel: Man up?


----------



## Iovis (Sep 11, 2011)

Nothing from the admins/site owner(s)?! *shock* /sarcasm

Time to email bomb the shit out of every admin mailbox I can find? Maybe that will get the message across. These fucking people need to bring on a new admin who actually knows what "public relations" is... either that or read this book:








I hear it's rather good (and possibly entertaining) read.




Accountability said:


> There's one flaw to ideas like this, and it affects every site with a blocklist.
> 
> It's the "log out" button.


Also the "register" button.


----------



## Devious Bane (Sep 12, 2011)

Foxxel said:


> An idea (because I had ran into this problem back in 08 and it still is happening to some people), being able to block some one from your WHOLE profile instead of blocking them from commenting and faving (I think faving). Because I had blocked someone and they use to (they came back) copying the profile info. Now this person hasn't done it again yet, but I have known a few people that it's happened to and the whole time it's trolls. I think when blocking a user you should be able to block the person from seeing your whole profile and submissions.... Basically everything.


_*Better Idea:*_ How about, if the person(s) ha(s/ve) degraded themselves to the point they are stealing your submissions and cloning your profile, you learn how properly use the site's administration to your advantage.
They can IP block people from the site if you give them enough reason to do so.


----------



## knuxlight (Sep 18, 2011)

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW That is all I'm reading from every one of your posts. The site is fine the way it is, so be grateful for it being free. As for the update, these people DO have lives outside of the fandom, you know, with things called JOBS? So if you're going to baaaaaaaw about this, take it somewhere else, because it's not desired here.



Iovis said:


> Nothing from the admins/site owner(s)?! *shock* /sarcasm
> 
> Time to email bomb the shit out of every admin mailbox I can find? Maybe that will get the message across. These fucking people need to bring on a new admin who actually knows what "public relations" is... either that or read this book:
> 
> ...


----------



## Accountability (Sep 18, 2011)

knuxlight said:


> BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW That is all I'm reading from every one of your posts. The site is fine the way it is, so be grateful for it being free. As for the update, these people DO have lives outside of the fandom, you know, with things called JOBS? So if you're going to baaaaaaaw about this, take it somewhere else, because it's not desired here.



What a constructive post. This is the first time I've ever heard these arguments. Thank you for the insight.

You want to know something that's more cliche than what you posted? Replying with "Well, FA has been offered help before but turns it down each and every time!".


----------



## JamesRaynor (Sep 19, 2011)

So much for summer..... *sigh*


----------



## Kesteh (Sep 19, 2011)

knuxlight said:


> BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW That is all I'm reading from every one of your posts. The site is fine the way it is, so be grateful for it being free. As for the update, these people DO have lives outside of the fandom, you know, with things called JOBS? So if you're going to baaaaaaaw about this, take it somewhere else, because it's not desired here.



It doesn't take two and a half years to make a deviantArt-inspired layout. That's not because of a job. That's called procrastination.
Ignoring offers for help didn't make things easier.

The site is not fine. It still has an unacceptable amount of security holes that go ignored until exploited, as a few coders keep pointing out. 
Guess what: their advice/offers for help are being declined as well.


----------



## Iovis (Sep 19, 2011)

knuxlight said:


> BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW That is all I'm reading from every one of your posts. The site is fine the way it is, so be grateful for it being free. As for the update, these people DO have lives outside of the fandom, you know, with things called JOBS? So if you're going to baaaaaaaw about this, take it somewhere else, because it's not desired here.


Oh dear. Someone's ego is getting pretty big since Dragoneer bumfucked them made a little journal about them! Tsk tsk. Really, dear, you shouldn't let things like that go to your head. It's not good for you.


----------



## Accountability (Sep 23, 2011)

> Autumnal Equinox: September 23 09:04UTC



So much for "Summer Update".


----------



## Kihari (Sep 24, 2011)

Accountability said:


> So much for "Summer Update".



See you next year, empty promises!


----------



## Rakuen Growlithe (Sep 24, 2011)

Inb4 staff lock because, 

"The new UI is being worked on. However,  this is an internal project that is not for public viewing.

Having said that there will be a public UI for our users that is  being worked on.

We do not have an ETA for it at this time."


----------



## timoran (Sep 24, 2011)

I know, right?

It's just business as usual. Any promise of an improvement by the administration of this site will result in forum complaints and thread locks.

Why even promise an improvement if this is how it always results in the end?


----------



## MRGamer01 (Sep 25, 2011)

Well, there pretty much goes Summer.


----------



## Selphius (Sep 25, 2011)

Did anyone actually expect it? 8)


----------



## DarkMettaur (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks, FA.


----------



## Rasly (Oct 6, 2011)

New UI looks awesome.


----------



## Captain Howdy (Oct 6, 2011)

I dunno why so many people are pushing so hard for the new UI, because so many people are going to turn right around and hate the shit out of it.


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 7, 2011)

Lastdirewolf said:


> I dunno why so many people are pushing so hard for the new UI, because so many people are going to turn right around and hate the shit out of it.


ya late on that, we already been have folks hating the new UI since its first showing a long time ago


----------



## Accountability (Oct 7, 2011)

Lastdirewolf said:


> I dunno why so many people are pushing so hard for the new UI, because so many people are going to turn right around and hate the shit out of it.



By the time it finally debuts, it's going to already be three years old and horribly outdated. Heck, most websites designs are now moving away from the rounded corner elements and dark colors and moving back to solid 90Â° corners and brighter colors. Look at Facebook and Google Plus, both have very simple, clean UI's.

I think people don't really want to see the new UI, they just want to see FA _doing something_.


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 7, 2011)

Lastdirewolf said:


> I dunno why so many people are pushing so hard for the new UI, because so many people are going to turn right around and hate the shit out of it.


Pushing for? Did you just step out of the closet?
More people are pushing _against_ the changes. There is more doubt and nostalgia around the concept of the UI than what anyone is willing to admit. The delay in the update is only means to mock the poor administration of the site and to discourage implementation of an update.


----------



## Kayze (Oct 7, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> Pushing for? Did you just step out of the closet?
> More people are pushing _against_ the changes. There is more doubt and nostalgia around the concept of the UI than what anyone is willing to admit. The delay in the update is only means to mock the poor administration of the site and to discourage implementation of an update.


TBH a new UI is needed, but not this UI. The profile page is alright, but all the other pages are horrible. It's painfully obvious that the one making those additional pages don't have an eye for web design at the very least; instead of just not having the eye for UI design.

I say this cause the new UI doesn't improve anything, only changes. Which is not a positive thing.


----------



## Kihari (Oct 7, 2011)

To be fair, redoing the UI could open the door to a lot of improvements... _if_ those things are also being actively implemented. When you're sitting on what you currently have for years and years and getting complacent, you might be giving up a lot of potential.

The OP mentions a lot of feature additions that were meant to be included in the new UI. If those are still being developed, I'd say that makes this update a _good thing_; otherwise, I would agree that there's really not much point in it (rather like taking a beat-up and barely-running car to the paint shop to make it look like you had the whole thing restored to like-new condition).

Since I was under the impression (at the time) that _someone else_ was working on it, I figured there was a good chance the new UI would materialize. Misplaced optimism? I dunno.

http://i53.tinypic.com/be6jy8.jpg

It's kind of fun to look back and see what has changed and what hasn't, but as I've only been here for a year and a half, it's hard for me to put a measurement on it all.


----------



## Werewolfhero (Oct 8, 2011)

I doubt its all just complaints about the old or (one of these days) upcoming heavily delayed UI theme (that's been in the works for over 2 years) but also all the dangling of new features like the folder system and plugging holes that's been delayed and delayed beyond just mere "outside lives" or "jobs" but as said above just outright procrastination. Some of the fixes and features could be implemented immediately but they've chosen to wait and delay it all in order to put out a substantial package deal.

The summer update's deadline's come and gone, just like the proposed updates from all of the years before. Instead of waiting for the perfect package deal they should just get off their lazy behinds, add in what fixes and features they've got done and working now, and address the rest later on instead of dangling it over all our heads tempting us with them all, then turning around and dragging out its implementation even further.


----------



## Armaetus (Oct 10, 2011)

Not being in the dark all the time would also be nice..


----------



## TechKat (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm still wondering when it's going to be released.
Yeah, I know, the previous occasions like getting DDOS'd and having network issues had to have a higher priority.

Why not just put it out in BETA now and have us point out any errors? Just a suggestion really.


----------



## Temrin (Oct 10, 2011)

TechKat said:


> I'm still wondering when it's going to be released.
> Yeah, I know, the previous occasions like getting DDOS'd and having network issues had to have a higher priority.
> 
> Why not just put it out in BETA now and have us point out any errors? Just a suggestion really.



Definitely agreed.


----------



## Xenke (Oct 10, 2011)

TechKat said:


> Why not just put it out in BETA now and have us point out any errors? Just a suggestion really.



Probably because it either isn't in a state where it's working (like, missing a ton of necessary features), or it's filled with so many security holes that releasing it would be a huge issue.

But I don't really know, the new UI isn't something I've ever asked any of the admins about. It's not really something I care -that much- about.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 10, 2011)

MADNESS?




THIS




IS




pretty much what we've come to expect.




Xenke said:


> Probably because it either isn't in a state where it's working (like, missing a ton of necessary features)


Like the current one.


> or it's filled with so many security holes that releasing it would be a huge issue.


Like the current one. Waaait a minute...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Oct 10, 2011)

I think it is general courtesy if you're the person making the announcement is to explain that you missed the deadline and give a brief overview of why.

Doesn't have to be detailed, but I think it is in bad form to leave a topic like this then have other admins come and lock it...


----------



## Verin Asper (Oct 10, 2011)

TechKat said:


> I'm still wondering when it's going to be released.
> Yeah, I know, the previous occasions like getting DDOS'd and having network issues had to have a higher priority.
> 
> Why not just put it out in BETA now and have us point out any errors? Just a suggestion really.


If that idea is working for SoFurry then it should work for FA...then again I'm still wondering about that coding team we suppose to have gotten from Furocity more


----------



## Volkodav (Oct 10, 2011)

Accountability said:


> By the time it finally debuts, it's going to already be three years old and horribly outdated. Heck, most websites designs are now moving away from the rounded corner elements and dark colors and moving back to solid 90Â° corners and brighter colors. Look at Facebook and Google Plus, both have very simple, clean UI's.
> 
> I think people don't really want to see the new UI, they just want to see FA _doing something_.


Pahahaha. Facebook is so goddamn over-complicated it's not even funny.


----------



## Accountability (Oct 12, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> If that idea is working for SoFurry then it should work for FA...then again I'm still wondering about that coding team we suppose to have gotten from Furocity more



You have to keep in mind FA's development process: Yak does everything, no one else can do anything because Yak has to fix everything first. If new coders come in, they might find bugs and exploits and fix them and make everyone look bad and exploit them because everyone on the internet is a 4chan troll.

What amazes me is how they refuse to do an open beta when they will happily roll out code for "testing" on the live production site on a regular basis.


----------



## Devious Bane (Oct 12, 2011)

Accountability said:


> What amazes me is how they refuse to do an open beta when they will happily roll out code for "testing" on the live production site on a regular basis.


If it's broken, break it until it's fixed.


----------



## DarkMettaur (Oct 13, 2011)

Devious Bane said:


> If it's broken, break it until it's WORSE.



Fixed.


----------



## DragonTalon (Oct 14, 2011)

I'll throw my opinion in here again.  I don't see the need for a UI.  I see the need for fixing broken stuff in the existing UI and slowly, and steadily making improvements. 

Change for the sake of change is never a good idea.

The current UI has some issues but what I think a lot of people forget is what it does have works pretty well.  Well enough for FA to stay a huge and popular site.

I may be in the minority but I actually LIKE the current design and layout.  It just needs a little polish.  A few features.

There is NO WAY they will replicate every single feature of the current system, so EVERYONE is going to complain when teh new UI does not do this or that, or does things differently, or left out something important or useful.

I ramble.


----------



## Kyrodo (Oct 14, 2011)

DragonTalon said:


> I'll throw my opinion in here again.  I don't see the need for a UI.  I see the need for fixing broken stuff in the existing UI and slowly, and steadily making improvements.
> 
> Change for the sake of change is never a good idea.
> 
> ...


No, you've got a point there. In my experience, every single time I've seen an entire layout change at any site I've been to, whether it's youtube, deviant art, a forum, or whatever, I end up wishing they could've kept to the original layout for all sorts of reasons. Hopefully this will not be the case when this one finally gets finished. I'd rather they'd just fix up the flaws in the current one, like with the irremovable gray box placeholders for deleted submissions spamming my favorites.

Hopefully the page loading speed will be about the same.


----------



## Pikitsune (Oct 14, 2011)

Personally I'm not disappointed in the slightest. Because the moment it was announced, I told myself "Oh, hey, this is the same thing they promised over a year ago. It's not going to happen this year either." 
FA works on something worse than "Valve-time", apparently. 
I've been around 3 years and never once seen any real updates on anything. I've seen the ability to remove comments, and that's it. Every other art site seems to know a little handy tool called "edit" but not FA. The commission information page actually worked back when I joined, and it's been broken and abandoned for what... 2 years now? More than that? 
People have said many times how much they dislike the boxes of missing submissions, the good old "this person has removed their favorite/watch" messages, but was it acknowledged? Nope. Last I saw someone ask about it, the response was "Well it's not THAT easy to fix." 
Yeah, if it's not that easy, why does every other art gallery website I've been to NOT have this problem? 
I think I've heard way too much about the new site UI after all this time that I just don't care. I would probably have a heart attack the moment the site actually changes, and a double heart attack if the change actually resolves a lot of the site problems.


----------



## DragonTalon (Oct 14, 2011)

I think the lack of editing comments isn't so much a lack of work but a decision not to allow it.   It's a thorny problem.   I certainly don't like the idea of responding to a comment only to have it get changed after the fact.  Or reading a thread and wondering if anything was changed later.  

I have to say I am on the side of not allowing comment editing.  Or making the history available with a click, but THAT'S a harder problem than just editing.

The commissions page, yeah, that would be nice to have working.    Some days I'm just like... let me at the code... PLEASE.


----------



## Accountability (Oct 15, 2011)

Pikitsune said:


> Personally I'm not disappointed in the slightest. Because the moment it was announced, I told myself "Oh, hey, this is the same thing they promised over a year ago. It's not going to happen this year either."
> FA works on something worse than "Valve-time", apparently.
> I've been around 3 years and never once seen any real updates on anything. I've seen the ability to remove comments, and that's it. Every other art site seems to know a little handy tool called "edit" but not FA. The commission information page actually worked back when I joined, and it's been broken and abandoned for what... 2 years now? More than that?
> People have said many times how much they dislike the boxes of missing submissions, the good old "this person has removed their favorite/watch" messages, but was it acknowledged? Nope. Last I saw someone ask about it, the response was "Well it's not THAT easy to fix."
> ...



The "Submission removed" message is not an easy fix, I'll give them that. Though it was fixed in the now-discarded Ferrox code that was nearing completion when it was thrown out in favor of this fresh new coat of paint. It could also be fixed by *adding developers* but it seems to me that Yak, Dragoneer, and now Gavin are quite content with holding on to the code as tight as they can, just in case some "trolls" see it.

The Commission Information page being removed and swept under the rug is nothing but pure laziness. When the coding "team" _wants_ to get something done, they can get it done in hours. Look at the journal exploits earlier this year. Look at the Viglink scandal. Both required as much, if not more coding effort than would be required to fix the Commission Information page. In the course of two (now more like three) years, no one on the development team could be bothered to find the hour or less it would take to fix the damn XSS exploits. In that amount of time I could have learned to code and coded the page probably a hundred times.


----------



## Armaetus (Oct 15, 2011)

I'd like to see the Furaffinty (and Furocity helpers) be more proactive with the community, as in sharing information on the status more often (IE Kihari's post earlier)....you do know we don't like being left in the dark/cold in terms of update, and the same goes for the occasional cryptic and/or vague responses we sometimes get.


----------



## Smelge (Oct 15, 2011)

Hey, guys. Don't fret. There's plenty more summers for it to appear.


----------



## Kihari (Oct 15, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> II think it is in bad form to leave a topic like this then have other admins come and lock it...



Wait, was this actually locked? ...or do you just mean that's this thread's inevitable fate?

I do agree though, it isn't that difficult to show up occasionally and say, "Hey, we're still working on this thing, and since the OP was posted we've made some progress on blah-blah-blah."


----------



## kayfox (Oct 16, 2011)

Kihari said:


> Wait, was this actually locked? ...or do you just mean that's this thread's inevitable fate?



I think its inevitable, the standard strategy around here is to lock treads ASAP, I suppose its some sort of way to quell the masses expressing their irritation with the management.  But I donno, Im tried of shit breaking, people offering to help, and being turned away.  But what would I know, I only work for a major supplier of "application delivery controllers," fixing this networking and website broken shit, all day.


----------



## Pinkuh (Oct 16, 2011)

Glaice said:


> I'd like to see the Furaffinty (and Furocity helpers) be more proactive with the community, as in sharing information on the status more often (IE Kihari's post earlier)....you do know we don't like being left in the dark/cold in terms of update, and the same goes for the occasional cryptic and/or vague responses we sometimes get.



You probably wouldn't be amazed to learn that most of the time? The staff is just as much in the dark about these things as you are. And mannnnnnnnnnn it's annoying.


----------



## Armaetus (Oct 16, 2011)

Pinkuh said:


> You probably wouldn't be amazed to learn that most of the time? The staff is just as much in the dark about these things as you are. And mannnnnnnnnnn it's annoying.



Staff in the dark? Well, that's a lot worse than I've expected. I feel sorry for you (if left in dark) and others who get the cold shoulder on progress. This is simply unacceptable, open and frequent communication with non-coders and normal users of FA should be a requirement for all coders on the team. (Or so they say :V)

The last staff-dev post looked like someone from Furocity, so that made me feel a bit better but I wish the entire team was nice and open like a slutty vixen.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 16, 2011)

Glaice said:


> The last staff-dev post looked like someone from Furocity, so that made me feel a bit better but I wish the entire team was nice and open like a slutty vixen.



ewww.


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## Armaetus (Oct 16, 2011)

You know I didn't mean it THAT way, more like open communication open.


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## Devious Bane (Oct 16, 2011)

Glaice said:


> more like open communication open.


I want what you are smoking.


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## Rakuen Growlithe (Oct 17, 2011)

Glaice said:
			
		

> Staff in the dark? Well, that's a lot worse than I've expected. I feel  sorry for you (if left in dark) and others who get the cold shoulder on  progress. This is simply unacceptable, open and frequent communication  with non-coders and normal users of FA should be a requirement for all  coders on the team. (Or so they say :V)



This isn't the first time one of the staff has said they have no idea what's going on. Maybe that communication thing will make it into the Code of Conduct. Oh yeah, that was just Dragoneer teasing everyone.


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## Werewolfhero (Oct 17, 2011)

Arshes is right they should atleast make a post acknowledging the deadline is well past, explain why, and atleast let people know that its still being worked on and if any progress has actually been done, rather than let it go without another word leaving everyone to believe its abandoned like the many other proposed updates in years past. Which leaves the threads they were proposed in open for all the stereotypical drama, rants, and bashing that eventually gets the threads closed, which only leads to anger the disgruntled within the community further. I believe that's what she meant Kihari.

Reguardless whether people want the ui and/or all the promised features and updates or not, the staff committed to them by making the plans public, so its their job to atleast keep everyone abridged on the progress or lack there of. Even if it is just ends up being a string of excuses, it'd atleast be something.


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## Armaetus (Oct 18, 2011)

Wouldn't "Put up or shut up" work here?



> *put up or shut up*  (_informal_)
> if you say someone should put up or shut up, you mean they should either take action in order to do what they have been talking about or stop talking about it


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## Devious Bane (Oct 21, 2011)

Glaice said:


> Wouldn't "Put up or shut up" work here?


Oh you. FA is incapable of such logic.


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## jayhusky (Oct 22, 2011)

I've got to be honest, I've yet to come across a single mention of why the new UI has been delayed. I'll admit FA has had some downtimes since the "scheduled" release of the update but none of them were serious enough to shelve it for a prolonged time.

What FA needs is some form of PR team which can get Read-Only access to the update(s) and distribute news accordingly to the userbase, alongside which the Team can then report back to the site team on what features are wanted/rejected, bugs, exploits and more.


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## Kesteh (Oct 22, 2011)

What would the world be like if Ferrox were live...


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## Accountability (Oct 22, 2011)

jayhusky said:


> I've got to be honest, I've yet to come across a single mention of why the new UI has been delayed. I'll admit FA has had some downtimes since the "scheduled" release of the update but none of them were serious enough to shelve it for a prolonged time.
> 
> What FA needs is some form of PR team which can get Read-Only access to the update(s) and distribute news accordingly to the userbase, alongside which the Team can then report back to the site team on what features are wanted/rejected, bugs, exploits and more.



I don't think a dedicated PR team would even be able to get anything done. In order for it to be effective, the admins and co. would have a) communicate better and b) give the PR team room to do their jobs. Communication behind the scenes is visibly poor to even people on this side of the table, and through various leaks and other channels we also know that if something -does- happen, the admins attempt to spin it to make FA look good or forbid anyone on staff to talk about it. I have a hard time believing that, if tonight, a PR team was created, they would not have a hard of a time trying to communicate with the users as any of the staff that have been in this thread. 

What does need to happen is the people at the very top of the pyramid need to lead, and lead effectively. They need to light fires under people and open up communication. They need to be willing to add and remove staff as necessary so things get done. 

What would benefit FA is the creation of some sort of an executive board, with Dragoneer and Gavin overseeing it, and letting the board oversee everything else. There would be a small group of people who are each responsible for another aspect of the site operations. One person could oversee user support, someone else could handle advertising, someone for staffing, another person responsible for PR, someone overseeing the technical staff (ideally someone who is not currently on the technical staff...), and maybe someone who's job it is to just listen to the users.

Maybe then things would start to improve.


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## GreenReaper (Oct 22, 2011)

In an ideal world, people in executive positions of large sites like Gavin and Dragoneer should probably be _responsible_ to a board of people, not superior to them.

The trouble there is not only being willing to give up ultimate power - you're hiring people who can replace you if you don't do your job - but also finding suitable candidates for such jobs in the first place. Operational staff and board members can be very different roles.

This is rather off-topic, though, and I'm not sure it's something even worth considering right now.


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## Armaetus (Oct 22, 2011)

Their shareholders would be pissed at them.


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## deishido (Oct 22, 2011)

So... This was called the summer update or whatever, but summer is quite over now. Will there be a release for this or will it be pushed to next summer?

Also, does this still hide comments or delete them? I find it irritating that it says there is a hidden comment rather than just deleting them. (this goes along with FA's usual routine of suspending troll accounts rather than simply deleting them..)  Then there's the commission tab that vanished in the last update. (after being broken since before I even joined)

Does any of this get addressed or is it mostly a graphic improvement?


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## jayhusky (Oct 22, 2011)

The UI update was supposed to be addressing a lot of various issues.

From all the stuff thats been said about it, i can gather is would be a whole new visual design. Comments I think would still be hide only (not sure though). As for comissions, it should be a simple enough fix for it to be made available for everyone again.


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## Corto (Oct 22, 2011)

GreenReaper said:


> In an ideal world, people in executive positions of large sites like Gavin and Dragoneer should probably be _responsible_ to a board of people, not superior to them.
> 
> The trouble there is not only being willing to give up ultimate power - you're hiring people who can replace you if you don't do your job - but also finding suitable candidates for such jobs in the first place. Operational staff and board members can be very different roles.
> 
> This is rather off-topic, though, and I'm not sure it's something even worth considering right now.



Yes because if I own a website the exact thing I wish for the most is a group of people that can kick me off my own privately owned site.


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## ZakRhyno (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm not there has not been an update waiting to see what he says after 14 pages and years of wait on the subject matters.


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## SwooshyCueb (Jan 21, 2012)

Is there any chance we can get some sort of status report on this?


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## Kesteh (Jan 21, 2012)

Oh yeah...that one thing that's never going to happen. What happened to it?


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## Armaetus (Jan 22, 2012)

Where's the changelog? http://floof.us is keeping one as it's being built right here, so why not this dusty old website?


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## BRN (Jan 22, 2012)

ZakRhyno said:


> years



eyebrowraise


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## Devious Bane (Jan 23, 2012)

SIX said:


> eyebrowraise



He's being quite literal. Last I checked, these updates were promised nearly 4 years ago.


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## Waffles (Jan 23, 2012)

So in the time it's taken this "New UI" to come out get work started on it  something, Sofurry has:
-Put up a fully functional site with many uses FA users wanted, UI from scratch
-Redesign, fix bugs
-Come out with SF 2.0, a brand new site that's highly interactive and clean
Uh. And last I checked, SoFurry was made, then redesigned with this new UI in under 2 years? :/


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## Ben (Jan 23, 2012)

It's too bad that SoFurry has a policy against posting human works without a furry context, because surprisingly, furry artists who also like to draw human things/human artists with lots of furry friends have a good deal of sway in this community. I originally had a theory that people could just link their human works in journals (since those get posted on the front page), but even THAT gets met with a bunch of angry people flailing their arms going "NO THIS IS A FURRY SITE GO AWAY." 

I mean, Toumal has no problem with it, but if that's the sort of reaction human artists are going to get, I don't see SF becoming what supersedes FA. Tragic too, since it is a really well-made site. Oh well.


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## Waffles (Jan 23, 2012)

Ben said:


> It's too bad that SoFurry has a policy against posting human works without a furry context, because surprisingly, furry artists who also like to draw human things/human artists with lots of furry friends have a good deal of sway in this community. I originally had a theory that people could just link their human works in journals (since those get posted on the front page), but even THAT gets met with a bunch of angry people flailing their arms going "NO THIS IS A FURRY SITE GO AWAY."
> 
> I mean, Toumal has no problem with it, but if that's the sort of reaction human artists are going to get, I don't see SF becoming what supersedes FA. Tragic too, since it is a really well-made site. Oh well.



This is true, but hell, you could still post your stuff and then just block the haters.


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## Sai_Wolf (Jan 23, 2012)

Waffles said:


> So in the time it's taken this "New UI" to come out get work started on it  something, Sofurry has:
> -Put up a fully functional site with many uses FA users wanted, UI from scratch
> -Redesign, fix bugs
> -Come out with SF 2.0, a brand new site that's highly interactive and clean
> Uh. And last I checked, SoFurry was made, then redesigned with this new UI in under 2 years? :/



Toumal also has:

-A competent dev team. Not just one guy running the show.
- considerable experience himself in coding for the web. 

Toumal has the know how and resources to get what he wants done. You might not agree with everything he does, but at least the man listens. He's even come over to FAF and endured the rage and listened in to the user base. He does more for his sight and doesn't beg for donations to blow on hardware in hopes that it'll solve the site problems.

He was also a good boss to work for for around the 5+ years I modded/admined that site.



Ben said:


> It's too bad that SoFurry has a policy against  posting human works without a furry context, because surprisingly, furry  artists who also like to draw human things/human artists with lots of  furry friends have a good deal of sway in this community. I originally  had a theory that people could just link their human works in journals  (since those get posted on the front page), but even THAT gets met with a  bunch of angry people flailing their arms going "NO THIS IS A FURRY  SITE GO AWAY."
> 
> I mean, Toumal has no problem with it, but if that's the sort of  reaction human artists are going to get, I don't see SF becoming what  supersedes FA. Tragic too, since it is a really well-made site. Oh  well.



I really really really wish SF was tolerant to human art.

I think that's been a big hindrance to it's success.


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## Shad (Jan 31, 2012)

If you saw the way yak "fixed" the "scraper problem" you would understand why shit never gets done. Honestly, if I were Dragoneer, I would have told yak to pick up his slack or get the fuck out and bring on someone that actually knows what they are doing.

@yak (because I know you're going to read it): "xmlhttp_makes_trogdor_sad"? Yeah well "shitty_fixes_make_shad_sad".


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## Sai_Wolf (Jan 31, 2012)

Ben said:


> It's too bad that SoFurry has a policy against posting human works without a furry context, because surprisingly, furry artists who also like to draw human things/human artists with lots of furry friends have a good deal of sway in this community. I originally had a theory that people could just link their human works in journals (since those get posted on the front page), but even THAT gets met with a bunch of angry people flailing their arms going "NO THIS IS A FURRY SITE GO AWAY."
> 
> I mean, Toumal has no problem with it, but if that's the sort of reaction human artists are going to get, I don't see SF becoming what supersedes FA. Tragic too, since it is a really well-made site. Oh well.



I want to mention this, but I don't want to derail the thread too much.

I talked with Toumal shortly after reading this post, Ben. Apparently I'm not the only one who's talked to him. As I was talking to him about it, he made this thread: http://www.sofurry.com/forum/view/thread?id=16086

The consensus, last I checked, is that SoFurry is going to allow human only art. Users will be able to tag their stuff and other users will be able to apply filters. Win-win. You have naysayers in that thread, but I believe he mentioned in that thread that he was going forward with it.


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## Draconas (Jan 31, 2012)

Shad said:


> If you saw the way yak "fixed" the "scraper problem" you would understand why shit never gets done. Honestly, if I were Dragoneer, I would have told yak to pick up his slack or get the fuck out and bring on someone that actually knows what they are doing.
> 
> @yak (because I know you're going to read it): "xmlhttp_makes_trogdor_sad"? Yeah well "shitty_fixes_make_shad_sad".



Apparently fixing it involves fucking over people who try to use more than 2 tabs at the same time, about 90% of the time I get the "site is having trouble with requests" crap.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm closing this thread.

We're still working on the UI -- a lot of it has been changed and revamped since it was last seen. I've been quiet on it because I honestly dropped the ball. I will have more to say about it in the near future, as well as an overdue apology. But I want to have something to show for it -- something worth showing. A lot of the posts here have devolved to bashing, and it's not really productive.

The site slowdowns/lag are something we're aware about, and are working towards upgrading and fixing part of our back end which should resolve the issues. More information will be posted when we're ready, but I don't have any solid information to give at this time.


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