# Spore



## Dragoneer (Jun 15, 2008)

As many people have noticed we ARE removing submission containing Spore creations to Fur Affinity. While we recognize there is an amazing wealth of creative potential with Spore's creature creator, the bottom line is that the images and submissions are still created using a generator and rely on pre-made (though tweakable) modifications and components.

As always, we recommend people upload Spore creations to something akin to Photobucket or Imageshack and link to them via their journals (or even create a forum thread to showcase their creations. You can upload your creations all you want to the forums!).


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## Rhylith (Jun 16, 2008)

As many people have noticed we ARE removing submission containing Spore creations to Fur Affinity. While we recognize there is an amazing wealth of creative potential with Spore's creature creator, the bottom line is that the images and submissions are still created using a generator and rely on pre-made (though tweakable) modifications and components.

As always, we recommend people upload Spore creations to something akin to Photobucket or Imageshack and link to them via their journals (or even create a forum thread to showcase their creations. You can upload your creations all you want to the forums!).

---

As this is your site, your word is law of course. But I would like to argue in favor of limited Spore postings, much like second life has been granted.


After Dragoneer deleted my posted spore pictures I replied with the following

Spore creatures are created by the user, much in the same way that second life does. The only real limitation is that you can't add custom textures in spore. Otherwise spore is virtually the same as second life, but uses a much larger base of "building block shapes". As I have created several second life creatures myself, I would urge you to hold off deletion until the subject has been discussed at length.

You might want to consider using the same guidelines that Second life uses, especially when the full version comes out.

-I'd like to expand that by adding the following

As time passes graphic design software tends to get easier to use, as most users don't appreciate software that gets harder to use from upgrade to upgrade. So this begs the question, could graphic design programs becomes so easy to use that it is no longer considered art? Will there be a day when design programs like sphere 3d and maya, are too easy to use and are no longer acceptable simply because they include huge libraries of ready-made parts and "building blocks"?

 Here on FA we already have a rather good policy for easy-to use design programs, like second life. Spore is very similar to second life in that it uses standard building blocks to build creatures or objects. The spore creature creator further simplifies that aspect of creating creatures, by including dozens of standard body parts. However, just like in second life each body part is able to be altered substantially from its base shape. Which is why I'm (Granted Im basically a no-body here) in favor of the same limited-posting rule be applied to Spore.


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## Stratelier (Jun 16, 2008)

There are two key differences between SL and Spore.

1:  SL has been around for awhile and is a proven, popular venue for artists to create and interact using their fursonae.  Spore is currently the new 'toy' on the block.  Whether it catches on and attracts the same style of fanbase as SL remains to be seen.

2:  SL allows users to create content _from scratch_, 100% original materials.  Spore is limited to (admittedly diverse) 'sets' of specific components and textures, and is in that respect a (highly sophisticated) character generator.

It is #2 in particular that precipitates the current ruling.

Also of note, in both cases _there is no rule against using SL or Spore creations as reference materials for drawing your own traditional or digital art_.


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## Snickers (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes, Spore is just like a doll maker, but just more fancy and interactive.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 16, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Spore is currently the new 'toy' on the block.  Whether it catches on and attracts the same style of fanbase as SL remains to be seen.


And given it's popularity (whether it lasts or fizzles away) the site will be bombarded with Spore avatars and designs. We've seen it before with character generators or even games where people will upload 10+ designs from a single game. Without any sort of limits it could impact site performance (think of how slow FA was the first day we came back after the move until now).


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## TehSean (Jun 16, 2008)

While the site could handle it, I'm pretty sure my eyes couldn't


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## Rhylith (Jun 17, 2008)

would it be acceptable to use a tiny thumbnail picture as a submission, and then link to the full sized one hosted somewhere else?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 17, 2008)

Rhylith said:


> would it be acceptable to use a tiny thumbnail picture as a submission, and then link to the full sized one hosted somewhere else?


Negative, because you're still uploading the prohibited art to FA... just in a smaller version.


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## Janglur (Jun 18, 2008)

Now, I have to question at what degree something is no longer considered a generator.

Like:  Why is Poser (or as it's popularly known, Poseur) not considered a generator but this is?


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## Stratelier (Jun 18, 2008)

> Now, I have to question at what degree something is no longer considered a generator.


That's a line in the sand I'm not sure FA staff are going to draw anytime soon.


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## Janglur (Jun 18, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> That's a line in the sand I'm not sure FA staff are going to draw anytime soon.



Ah, arbitrary rulings.  Gotcha.


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## TehSean (Jun 18, 2008)

There are many locked presets in the Spore creature creator that have only limited customization options (feet, mouths, the objects with stats) and while the blobbish body creator seems to present the greatest option for variety, it all ultimately falls into the same art style that Spore is/will be known for.

You used Poser as an example. Poser is used for animation even though it has many forms of content that pop up and are seen as commonplace. The difference though is that you can upload anything into poser ranging from a human to a spool of cartoon thread.

I cannot, with Spore by default, customize the animations for my creatures, nor can I do something like.. paint on them an armored texture of my own design. I can't provide options to make the monster a gelatinous version of a dinosaur. A jello monster. The reason I can't do that is because the generator is limited toy for all its touted limitlessness!

3D programs such as Blender provide a platform from which to create anything. So there's the difference! Unfortunately, there should have been a limit imposed on overruse of a certain 'properties' like the Daz Krystal fox that keeps on appearing without any sort of modification to set it apart from its numerous clones.

Character screenshots produced in the hero-creator from City of Heroes/Villains are also banned for similar reasons. Many Second Life screenshots technically could and should be taken down because many of the properties depicted are not owned by the people posting them, but exceptions should definitely be made for people who heavily edit their screenshots to make them more appealing to look at, be it with post-post-processing, since SL hosts its own little bloom filter, to elevate the visual quality above that of an otherwise normal screenshot. Uhhhhhh. Yeah.

Also. SL's primitive building system allows for limitless customization independent of the rules of a traditional character-creator.


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## Janglur (Jun 18, 2008)

Then by that same reguard, you should be able to upload custom content for The Sims and The Sims 2.  And SimCity 4.

All three have editors that allow complete, from-scratch designed materials.


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## Stratelier (Jun 18, 2008)

SL is allowed in part because it's a popular venue for the furry fandom, and this IS a furry-fandom art site.


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## Janglur (Jun 18, 2008)

But so is both spore, SimCity4, and The Sims 1&2.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 18, 2008)

Janglur said:


> But so is both spore, SimCity4, and The Sims 1&2.


And we would only allow those screenshots if they contain user created content, not application generated content. Second Life allows people to create limbs, design textures and more. They can implement Photoshop, 3D Studio Max, Poser and other applications to design their avatars and utilize a rich level of variety more than what Spore's built in designer permits.

And that's the big difference.


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## Vitae (Jun 19, 2008)

Remove Second Life.

In fact, remove ALL 3D generated images.
It's all from a moldable mesh anyway and pregenerated parts right?

I'm serious, remove all second life.


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## Erro (Jun 19, 2008)

Vitae said:


> Remove Second Life.
> 
> In fact, remove ALL 3D generated images.
> It's all from a moldable mesh anyway and pregenerated parts right?
> ...


Do you read before you post? seriously? It's already been stated. Second Life is allowed to be posted because it is a fully from scratch 3d design program, same as any other modeling client, built within the boundaries of a mmog virtual world. Its a completely different concept than Spore in every aspect.
Who exactly are you to say that certain forms of art should or should not be allowed, anyway? Furaffinity caters to an enormous variety of mediums, and 3d modeling is as much of an art as anything else. It might not be your area of interest, but there are those of us who are into it. We enjoy showcasing our work as much as any other.


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## Janglur (Jun 19, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> And we would only allow those screenshots if they contain user created content, not application generated content. Second Life allows people to create limbs, design textures and more. They can implement Photoshop, 3D Studio Max, Poser and other applications to design their avatars and utilize a rich level of variety more than what Spore's built in designer permits.
> 
> And that's the big difference.





Except that it's not generated anymore than a computer generates a polygon or SL generates a humanoid figure.  (Remember, without any attachments SL uses a very limited, spore-esque 'slider-adjust' system to create avatars.)

As for SimCity, the content creator for that is extremely system-helpless.  You have to draw it, by hand, polygon by polygon and texture pixel by texture pixel.  Doesn't get any more user-created than that.




I disagree with the Spore ruling on the grounds that spore is equally if not moreso capable of construction of free-range content than SL.  At this point the ruling only nitpicks on modelling tools, not the spirit of the content created.

After all, Andy Warhol is an artist, and he painted campbell soup cans.  It is not less art simply because it used content he did not himself create.




[On a side note, I will not be getting Spore due to nazi-strength DRM that mandatorily comes with it.  I like my PC rootkit free, kthxbi]


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## Erro (Jun 19, 2008)

Janglur said:


> Remember, without any attachments SL uses a very limited, spore-esque 'slider-adjust' system to create avatars.


This point will actually become valid when people start building attachment free avatars.
All that spore does is allow you to build creatures from pre-constructed parts and adjustments. Second Life allows you to build using base polygons to create 3d models in game. Again, totally different concept.
Also, remember that people build and showcase things that aren't avatars made in SL, nulling the 'slider' comment.


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## Janglur (Jun 19, 2008)

I fail to see the difference between attaching a series of preconstructed geometrical figures to be any different from attaching a series of preconstructed geometrical figures.


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## Erro (Jun 19, 2008)

Janglur said:


> I fail to see the difference between attaching a series of preconstructed geometrical figures to be any different from attaching a series of preconstructed geometrical figures.


One is a high end character generator, the other is a freeform 3d modeling client. Kinda different. I'm a starship builder in second life. You show me a sublight freighter that you made in Spore, and I will resign from this discussion without a word.
Spore is not allowed primarily because it is a burden on the system, if you read the first post. Aside from that, everything in Spore is pre-created, as opposed to Second Life, where all the shapes are designed from scratch.
Also, if your going to use a witty, intelligent sounding retort, make sure your sentence structure is grammatically correct, it makes your post look a lot better


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## Sergeant (Jun 19, 2008)

I can understand both sides of the argument. As much as I'd like to whine about Spore content not being allowed I begrudgingly agree with it. On one hand there's the comparison to Second Life and I almost want to agree with it, but there's no comparison no matter what you say. Sure, you can "sculpt" the body and the limbs, but the rest like the eyeballs, mouths, feet, etc. are pre-created you're simply gluing onto the creation.

With Second Life you can at least upload your own textures, place any number of parts together to make a wonderful-looking sculpture, and can even upload custom 3D models if you know how to use the ass-backwards and burdensome sculpty prim.


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## Janglur (Jun 19, 2008)

Spore playermade starship:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_wQ7XTqRmjUY/R0R9gKK9CvI/AAAAAAAAAA8/S7vaGmlsKoE/S226/spaceship.jpg


http://www.sporeology.blogspot.com/



=D


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 19, 2008)

Erro said:


> Also, if your going to use a witty, intelligent sounding retort, make sure your sentence structure is grammatically correct, it makes your post look a lot better



Careful saying that when you use the wrong homonym; making your sentence gramatically incorrect.

ie...it's "you're" in the first part "Also, if you're going to use" as in you are.

Totally off topic but anyways.

I actually see what what is being said. I'm not a fan of either, but I can see how Spore is a character generator if you're not allowed to model your own content but rather use set paramaters, versus a program that does even if someone can make a generic mold.


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## Vitae (Jun 19, 2008)

Erro said:


> Do you read before you post? seriously? It's already been stated. Second Life is allowed to be posted because it is a fully from scratch 3d design program, same as any other modeling client, built within the boundaries of a mmog virtual world. Its a completely different concept than Spore in every aspect.
> Who exactly are you to say that certain forms of art should or should not be allowed, anyway? Furaffinity caters to an enormous variety of mediums, and 3d modeling is as much of an art as anything else. It might not be your area of interest, but there are those of us who are into it. We enjoy showcasing our work as much as any other.



Do you fart before you take a dump? Seriously?

I don't give a crap.


SEE WHAT I DID THERE


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## Janglur (Jun 19, 2008)

Having seen the spore program in person, I can say it's NOT a generator.  You have to build it, peice by peice, limb by limb, using existing peices.

Just like second life.


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## Eevee (Jun 19, 2008)

"build it using existing pieces" sounds kinda like the definition of a generator, actually.  you're just not constrained by where the pieces are going in this one.


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## Janglur (Jun 19, 2008)

And SL is different?


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## Eevee (Jun 19, 2008)

I don't give much of a damn about SL screenshots, so trying to hang them over my head isn't going to accomplish much.  Regardless, SL pieces can be morphed significantly more flexibly than I've seen anyone do with Spore pieces.  Cylinders and cubes are not quite on the same level of prebuilt constructs as claws and mouths.


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## TehSean (Jun 19, 2008)

Again, the tools used to create within the Creature Creator are limited. Create sharp edges in your creatures for me using it please. Make a creature that is highly angular and artificial instead of squishy and blobbish.

SL is permissible because the tools used to bring content to SL are the same tools that were used in films, etc, etc. They are the markers, the paints, the brushes and the like that all of the games were built upon in the first place.

Products like Blender, Zbrush, Poser, Moment of Inspiration, Maya bring content to SL and isn't held back by the generator's limitations, only by that of SL's engine and the imagination of the person. Any texture can be made from scratch and mapped to the objects created.

You cannot upload custom content to the CC without spending the time to create a hack around its limitations and even then, it would either be adding more preset-pieces (more beaks, etc etc, new sounds, or custom textures) that would then be only usable by modded games. Since EA is running the network through which all the content will be traded between players, the modified content will not be allowed.

Fortunately, you can draw Spore creatures. I can draw my City of Heroes character, but I can't upload game screenshots of it.

It's hard to really decide where it lands, trying to judge something by the creative potential it has. Spore DOES open up a lot of creative potential but at the same time it is still limited by the aesthetics it forces on the user in the same way that City of Heroes had. The key difference I suppose is that the creative limitation of the content you can make is more dependent on EA greenlighting new content than is from you providing it.

Quote: Then by that same reguard, you should be able to upload custom content for The Sims and The Sims 2. And SimCity 4.

All three have editors that allow complete, from-scratch designed materials. -Janglur

 I'm pretty sure that under FA's ToS, you would be allowed to upload screenshots of those materials because you are the creator of the content! You own it! You made it! If you're feeling really noble, you could even note the portions of the screenshot you did not create. More often than not, you probably didn't make the mesh the furry texture may have been applied to, or perhaps made everything in the shot and that's where the confusion with Spore comes from. The creator is very easy to use and flexible to make zany creatures from.

As for the comparisons against SL, can you divide, cut, or hollow out any of the existing pieces in Spore to create more unique pieces and texture them individually? I don't recall having the ability to modify the content that much. YES. SL is different.


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## Erro (Jun 19, 2008)

Janglur said:


> Spore playermade starship:
> 
> http://bp3.blogger.com/_wQ7XTqRmjUY/R0R9gKK9CvI/AAAAAAAAAA8/S7vaGmlsKoE/S226/spaceship.jpg
> 
> ...


what exactly the fuck is that anyway o.o?
Maybe I should redefine my terms, just for the sake of clarity.
When I 'make' something in second life, its totally and completely from scratch, basic polygons modified and grouped to build something unique. When people 'make' things in spore, all they are doing is gluing on pre-made parts and adjusting sliders.
And for the sake of arguement, I'll retract my starship statement in earlier posts, because I don't use Spore personally, and wasn't aware you could actually do that, although the only link I was provided with that actually worked had some pretty craptacular images in it.


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## Janglur (Jun 19, 2008)

You know, it's blatantly obvious you're just grasping at straws now of why to include one program and not another.  You've clearly never even looked at how the spore builder works, or how modelling programs work.  SL uses simple prims.  Real modelling programs use line for line geometry.  They're nothing alike.  I'd dare say SL is LESS of a modelling tool than spore because SL can't detect attachments and compensate.  It's just a bunch of wasteful polygons lumped in a cheap block pattern and fashioned to be more resembling.

And cut the crap about importing XYZ into SL.  It only supports sculptyprims, and i've never seen a single damn thing successfully imported with that, and neither have you and you know it.




Just another reason i'm slowly growing to dislike FA.  Preferential treatment for certain artforms and utter disrespect for others.


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## Erro (Jun 19, 2008)

Janglur said:


> And cut the crap about importing XYZ into SL.  It only supports sculptyprims, and i've never seen a single damn thing successfully imported with that, and neither have you and you know it.


Maybe you should look again then, nearly my entire avatar was built out of game in 3d rendering programs, and imported into the SL grid with sculptyprims.


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## Magica (Jun 19, 2008)

Even with SL it's hard to tell which is user created and which is not.  Some would fall under that For You/By You, but how can you tell if the skin used was actually for you or not? I'm not a big fan of SL, and it gets rather repetitive to see screenshots of skins doing the same exact thing (standing around, sitting, lying down, sheathed, unsheated, etc). Personally I'd rather see it on a seperate site/directory/gallery from FA unless you're the developer of the skins (like Tinintri or Orange04 for example) and not just someone showing off sexually explicit screenshots of your character with over 9000 other users.

As for Spore, the reason I never submitted any of my own creations is because I know that it uses pregenerated parts and color schemes. It's a generator.


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## XerxesQados (Jun 19, 2008)

Second Life fursonae are often composed of parts bought from other people who made them, and there's nothing unartistic about them.

Spore creations, as well as art composed of freely available components, should be treated the same.

There's nothing wrong with artistic assembly. I'm not gonna stop anyone from uploading Spore creatures or any generated characters to MyFursona. I'm really hoping FA will follow suit, because art can be found in anything, even if it's made of building blocks.


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## Armaetus (Jun 19, 2008)

Keep that Spore nonsense out of my inbox, thank you.


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## Stratelier (Jun 19, 2008)

I had a killer sarcastic response typed & ready to submit this morning but the Internet connection ate it. 

What about the dA method?  dA requires that all 'generator' content be placed in Scraps and nowhere else.


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## Vitae (Jun 19, 2008)

So
If I create a creature in SPORE then draw over it using MSPAINT or any other image editing program and add some different colors and a signature, this could be considered an original piece of art, right?

If not, ya'll got prollemz


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## TehSean (Jun 19, 2008)

Janglur said:


> And cut the crap about importing XYZ into SL.  It only supports sculptyprims, and i've never seen a single damn thing successfully imported with that, and neither have you and you know it.



Sculpted Prims:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sculpted_Prims

Darn. Look at all those unsuccessful examples of imported objects. 
You only have to enter "Sculpted Prims" into any search engine to see how wrong you are.

If FA were up, I would show you some of the things I made in Zbrush and uploaded into SL successfully since you're talkin' nonsense.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1393151/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1278160/ From Zbrush to SL. Both the sculpted prims and textures were hand made. Digitally hand made c.c;


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## Stratelier (Jun 20, 2008)

Jangular said:
			
		

> And cut the crap about importing XYZ into SL. It only supports sculptyprims, and i've never seen a single damn thing successfully imported with that, and neither have you and you know it.


After reading TehSean's response, answer's clear:  Blame the artist, not the tool.


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## Chevallier LaChance (Jun 20, 2008)

Sweet! Do you guys know if you can colonize other planets yet?


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 20, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Keep that Spore nonsense out of my inbox, thank you.



If you can't contribute without the kind of attitude you've done in your past posts and this one, I'll keep your nonsense off the forums and put you on mute.

This isn't about what you like there are other people who use the site, stop making such selfish posts.


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## Erro (Jun 20, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> If you can't contribute without the kind of attitude you've done in your past posts and this one, I'll keep your nonsense off the forums and put you on mute.
> 
> This isn't about what you like there are other people who use the site, stop making such selfish posts.


That seems to be commonplace here. People start suggesting that certain things be removed because its not their cup of soup. How many users are there on FA again? <Insert huge ass number here>? There's gonna be shit you don't like. Get over it.


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## Eevee (Jun 20, 2008)

here is my arbitrary and *unofficial* but reasonable-sounding-at-the-moment line in the sand

if someone with _no artistic talent otherwise_ can create something much better-looking with tool X than they would normally be able, it is probably doing a large part of the work, and thus it is a generator.

there are always going to be people who will push the limits of something and make real art out of it -- e.g. the Mii creator has been abused by some very creative people -- but that is a bit harder case to discern.

there is a practical reason for this, too: if creating something takes remarkably less effort, it is far easier for the userbase to drown the site in a crapflood of half-decent generic critters made in a few minutes.


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## TehSean (Jun 20, 2008)

Erro said:


> That seems to be commonplace here. People start suggesting that certain things be removed because its not their cup of soup. How many users are there on FA again? <Insert huge ass number here>? There's gonna be shit you don't like. Get over it.



THE KETTLE IS VERY BLACK RIGHT NOW. 

If you don't know what I'm talking about, plz refer to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pot_calling_the_kettle_black


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## Erro (Jun 20, 2008)

TehSean said:


> THE KETTLE IS VERY BLACK RIGHT NOW.
> 
> If you don't know what I'm talking about, plz refer to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pot_calling_the_kettle_black


Please quote one time that I have stated that I thought something should be removed, at all really, never mind because I don't like it. I support the admin decision to remove certain material based on their reasoning. Outside of that, the only thing I have done in this thread is point out the very large differences between programs that people would readily lump into one group.
Also, in response to your reference, if your implications was correct, I would be the pot, not the kettle. "the pot calling the kettle black"
kthnx. =3


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## Janglur (Jun 20, 2008)

Eevee said:


> here is my arbitrary and *unofficial* but reasonable-sounding-at-the-moment line in the sand
> 
> if someone with _no artistic talent otherwise_ can create something much better-looking with tool X than they would normally be able, it is probably doing a large part of the work, and thus it is a generator.
> 
> ...




By that standard, i'd consider SL just that, especially in reguards to crap-floods.  In fact, computers in general.

Get out and sculpt some clay if you want 3d!


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## Stratelier (Jun 21, 2008)

> By that standard, i'd consider SL just that, especially in reguards to crap-floods. In fact, computers in general.


Hey, pixels are a computer-generated image element, correct?  LET'S GO BAN DIGITAL ART IN THE FIRST PLACE and let people learn how to actually draw something for reals.


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## Tiitha (Jun 23, 2008)

I honestly think you are really limiting people's creativity by disallowing Spore creatures. I see no reason why something like this should have to be restricted.


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## Stratelier (Jun 23, 2008)

Because it's already standard, established procedure for dealing with generator'd content on FA, that's why.

Burden of evidence now shifts to you.


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## Tiitha (Jun 23, 2008)

What evidence? People are just having fun making weird things in Spore and FA is being a butt about it.


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## Snickers (Jun 23, 2008)

Silly people, it's been said, spore is just some fancy doll maker, regardless whether its fun or not, you make jack shit in it when it comes to artists terms. FA already has a spore thread on the forums, go post there and stop whining as if you are being discriminated against. FA offers you a free service so be grateful.


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## Erro (Jun 23, 2008)

Snickers said:


> Silly people, it's been said, spore is just some fancy doll maker, regardless whether its fun or not, you make jack shit in it when it comes to artists terms. FA already has a spore thread on the forums, go post there and stop whining as if you are being discriminated against. *FA offers you a free service so be grateful*.


I swear these words fall on deaf ears. how many times have I said them now?


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## Aurali (Jun 23, 2008)

Janglur said:


> By that standard, i'd consider SL just that, especially in reguards to crap-floods.  In fact, computers in general.
> 
> Get out and sculpt some clay if you want 3d!



and here is someone who truly hasn't modeled before. Try to make original content in SL, and try to make it in Spore. You'll see a HUGE difference in how easy it is to do that... Now for even more fun, take something like 3dS max and try to make content out of that....

You'll wish for clay.


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## Stratelier (Jun 23, 2008)

Tiitha said:


> What evidence?


Well, you specifically said "I see *no reason* why . . . " so I gave you the reason.  Do you have a reason of your own to answer it with?



			
				Erro said:
			
		

> I swear these words fall on deaf ears. how many times have I said them now?


The "free website" breed of arguments, by law of nature *always* fall on deaf ears.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 23, 2008)

Tiitha said:


> I honestly think you are really limiting people's creativity by disallowing Spore creatures. I see no reason why something like this should have to be restricted.



I think your creativity is limited if you think you need to post it to FA. I also think your creativity is limited if you think that the only way to be creative is to use a fancy character generator.

Creative people aren't worried about limitations.


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## Tiitha (Jun 23, 2008)

I guess building things out of Legos is out of the question then because there are parts that are already premade.


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## Anonymous1157 (Jun 23, 2008)

You physically build stuff with Lego. Also, parts that serve one purpose in the eyes of Lego engineers can be used for an entirely different purpose by us builders. Let's see you try using hands as feet in Spore.


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## Tiitha (Jun 23, 2008)

Anonymous1157 said:


> You physically build stuff with Lego. Also, parts that serve one purpose in the eyes of Lego engineers can be used for an entirely different purpose by us builders. Let's see you try using hands as feet in Spore.



Same with spore, you can use eyes as entirely different parts. I saw someone make a motorcycle by using a part that goes on the end of a tail as fork for the wheels. I use my hand to sculpt the shape of the body by using a mouse.


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## Drakaji (Jun 23, 2008)

Just putting in my two cents.

Creating via spore requires significantly less effort than most methods. Creatures are created from pre-made parts in which the original company made. There are no basic building blocks to create unique parts as far as I know.

The difference between this and something such as lego or a 3d program is that you are required to make the base parts and models. Similar to how an artists uses a pencil to draw, 3d gives you tools to create models. They are also limitless in nature, only held back by the artist or the tools/engines they have.

In summary,
Spore created everything for you, you only need to assemble it.
3d programs only provide the platform. You are required to build everything.


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## Anonymous1157 (Jun 23, 2008)

You didn't specifically answer to whether or not you can use hands as feet. Why? Because we all know the answer is no.

On the other hand, I have a toa I built in my room right now in which parts usually used as feet make up the torso and elbows, as well as having masks for shoulder pads. Also, *I physically modified the mask he wears*. Lets see you chop a finger off a hand in Spore with official tools.

(If you need pictures to prove any of this, I have at least the mask ready to host n' post.)

Edit: I got ninja'd. Had to fix something so it still made sense.


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## MaxRaine (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm not sure if this has been brought up or not but... how about if we just were allowed to upload the creature file, a small 20-30 kb .png file that the creature creator can use to produce the creature model on another user's account. Such small files could hardly make too much of an impact on the servers and it would allow us creature creators to share the models among eachother even with creations we might not wanna upload to the official site. Seeing the creature actually moving around would be better than any screencap as well. =P

It's just an idea though... after I got over the initial annoyance I realized that photobucket.com and the forum might work just as well =P


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## Tiitha (Jun 24, 2008)

Anonymous1157 said:


> You didn't specifically answer to whether or not you can use hands as feet. Why? Because we all know the answer is no.
> 
> On the other hand, I have a toa I built in my room right now in which parts usually used as feet make up the torso and elbows, as well as having masks for shoulder pads. Also, *I physically modified the mask he wears*. Lets see you chop a finger off a hand in Spore with official tools.
> 
> ...



No, I don't use my hands or feet to make anything digital other than the tools I have available on the computer. (I don't use my feet to make anything other than footprints, I'm not that dexterous) You can't put a paintbrush to your computer screen and physically paint something either though. Spore is a little more than a fancy doll maker, but I agree that it's still pretty limiting tool. But whatever, I've gotten over it. Maybe I should try building things on SL.


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## Stratelier (Jun 24, 2008)

Tiitha, Anonymous1157 was referring to hands/feet of Spore creatures, the game keeps a distinction between the two.



			
				Tiitha said:
			
		

> I guess building things out of Legos is out of the question then because there are parts that are already premade.


LEGO.com actually has an official 3D LEGO modeller available for free download . . .

Drakaji has a point, a lot of LEGO bricks are simple, basic shapes that require the *artist's* imagination and involvement to construct an artistic model from.  "Plastic pixels", if you will.



			
				Tiitha said:
			
		

> I use my hand to sculpt the shape of the body by using a mouse.


Nice analogy.  Grab some Sculpey, model your Spore creatures, take photo, upload to FA.  No objections here!



			
				MaxRaine said:
			
		

> how about if we just were allowed to upload the creature file, a small 20-30 kb .png file that the creature creator can use to produce the creature model on another user's account. Such small files could hardly make too much of an impact on the servers and it would allow us creature creators to share the models among eachother even with creations we might not wanna upload to the official site.


It's not bandwidth, but _principle_ that's the issue.

If all you want to do is "host & post", so to speak, there's always Photobucket for the former and forum topics for the latter.


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## Tiitha (Jun 24, 2008)

You guys are being a lot more hostile about this topic than need be. I understand you don't want Spore images uploaded, but you need to take other users' points of view in a lighter perspective.

Sheesh, no wonder people avoid these forums.


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## Anonymous1157 (Jun 24, 2008)

Actually, I only took offense because you threw Lego into the discussion, and Lego is far from being a generator. Other than that, you have a valid opinion, even if administrators don't like it.

Besides, what's wrong with the current system? Just post in the "Post your CC creatures" thread and get on with your life.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2008)

Tiitha said:


> You guys are being a lot more hostile about this topic than need be. I understand you don't want Spore images uploaded, but you need to take other users' points of view in a lighter perspective.
> 
> Sheesh, no wonder people avoid these forums.





Tiitha said:


> What evidence? *People are just having fun making weird things in Spore and FA is being a butt about it.*



What was that about being hostile? It's not like you can't post it on another image place where it is allowed. Not everything needs to be posted to FA.


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## Stratelier (Jun 24, 2008)

Indeed.  FA already has stated rules prohibiting 'generator' content, and Spore is currently ruled as being just that:  A sophisticated, comprehensive, utterly flexible and highly-evolved . . . _generator_.

Tiitha, if you have an argument for why Spore should be *exclusively** exempt from the no-generators rule, or why Spore should be re-classified among *actual* modellers, painting and design programs, do speak up.

And if you can back up said arguments with more than just personal opinion, more power to ya.



* (Because we DO NOT WANT people complaining "why do you allow Spore but not _(insert name of generator here) _?")


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## Ashkihyena (Jul 2, 2008)

Bah, FA should not allow any game pictures, period, if you don't allow Spore or any other game, but, thats just my opinion and its been ignored over time on this forum.


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## Undying Song (Jul 3, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Hey, pixels are a computer-generated image element, correct?  LET'S GO BAN DIGITAL ART IN THE FIRST PLACE and let people learn how to actually draw something for reals.



Uh, scanned / photographed artworks created using traditional tools end up as pixels as well. Hehe.


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## TehSean (Jul 3, 2008)

Ashkihyena said:


> Bah, FA should not allow any game pictures, period, if you don't allow Spore or any other game, but, thats just my opinion and its been ignored over time on this forum.



As it should be. (That's only the opinion of one man though.)


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## Ashkihyena (Jul 3, 2008)

TehSean said:


> As it should be. (That's only the opinion of one man though.)



Its to bad that once FA does get back up, people will be posting more Second Life screens.  *Shrugs*  Oh well, stupid rules are stupid.


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## TehSean (Jul 3, 2008)

Just yelling in the wind.


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## Ashkihyena (Jul 3, 2008)

TehSean said:


> Just yelling in the wind.



That and pretty much preaching to the choir, its sad really cause Spore is quite awesome, and I've seen several badass things that could be considered furry, but, oh well, somehow, Second Life gets the free pass here.


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## purpledragonbreath (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah can I get my pictures back then? because they were blatantly removed before I could back them up or remove them myself (or read the comments on them)

It's not like it's gonna kill the site because I have 4 pictures up, so removing it on sight without me knowing at that time is very rude.

And most likely you'll go on about how you CAN, but it's still rude.


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## AlexInsane (Sep 8, 2008)

This thread has been dead for two months, and all you had to say was "Lame"?

...you're pretty lame yourself, you know that?


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## Snickers (Sep 8, 2008)

purpledragonbreath said:


> Yeah can I get my pictures back then? because they were blatantly removed before I could back them up or remove them myself (or read the comments on them)
> 
> It's not like it's gonna kill the site because I have 4 pictures up, so removing it on sight without me knowing at that time is very rude.
> 
> And most likely you'll go on about how you CAN, but it's still rude.



Well its pretty rude you are uploading content that obviously doesn't go well with the sites rules, maybe you should take the damn time to read them before complaining then you wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.


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## purpledragonbreath (Sep 8, 2008)

Snickers said:


> Well its pretty rude you are uploading content that obviously doesn't go well with the sites rules, maybe you should take the damn time to read them before complaining then you wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.


 


AlexInsane said:


> This thread has been dead for two months, and all you had to say was "Lame"?
> 
> ...you're pretty lame yourself, you know that?



  Wasn't talking to you.

And this is directed to you: Why does it have to be that every time I post on a forum, there's a whole bunch of bitching and whining from people that have nothing to do with it. this was directed to the admins. so stop talking to me! /ignore! /FA block


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## Damaratus (Sep 8, 2008)

purpledragonbreath said:


> Yeah can I get my pictures back then? because they were blatantly removed before I could back them up or remove them myself (or read the comments on them)
> 
> It's not like it's gonna kill the site because I have 4 pictures up, so removing it on sight without me knowing at that time is very rude.
> 
> And most likely you'll go on about how you CAN, but it's still rude.



The rules are posted on the site, we don't intentionally target any one person with image removal.  

This site is also merely a host for your images and does not excuse you or anyone else from having a personal back up.  If you want to protect the things that you create, you should make sure to have a back up on your own computer or burn the files CD or DVD.


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## purpledragonbreath (Sep 8, 2008)

Damaratus said:


> The rules are posted on the site, we don't intentionally target any one person with image removal.
> 
> This site is also merely a host for your images and does not excuse you or anyone else from having a personal back up. If you want to protect the things that you create, you should make sure to have a back up on your own computer or burn the files CD or DVD.



So do you have them or not? because it doesn't make you look good if you just deleted them.

it's like you're a photographer, and you give your pieces to a gallery, and over the first night they burn it "yeah sorry we didn't like it" with a big "fuck you" attached to it from the local drama community.

I don't care if you have to low-level scan your drives, just get them back.


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## Draken_The_Dragon (Sep 8, 2008)

I've never played the thing but have seen a commerical once for it and checked it out a bit. I understand what the Admins are doing by the fact the site would be flamed with images of this thing (which I don't get why its so "zomg must upload something creative from a game" phase goes about). It's odd but I've heard of this: maybe a image limit at least so people calm down some cause they could upload a few images at least. And what I've done in the past with pictures I've taken of nature is using MS Paint to put a few together into one to save uploading/space for the site in a way..


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## TakeWalker (Sep 8, 2008)

purpledragonbreath said:


> So do you have them or not? because it doesn't make you look good if you just deleted them.
> 
> it's like you're a photographer, and you give your pieces to a gallery, and over the first night they burn it "yeah sorry we didn't like it" with a big "fuck you" attached to it from the local drama community.
> 
> I don't care if you have to low-level scan your drives, just get them back.



No, it makes them look like they're enforcing the site rules. It makes _you_ look like an idiot because:

1) You can't follow the rules.

2) You don't have a backup.

This isn't a case of not liking something. Images aren't removed from FA because "an admin doesn't like them", but because they don't follow the rules.

Furthermore, you are hardly in a position to make demands. By not following the rules, you have been punished as the rules state. The admins don't owe you anything. If those were your only copies, consider it a learning experience.


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## purpledragonbreath (Sep 8, 2008)

TakeWalker said:


> No, it makes them look like they're enforcing the site rules. It makes _you_ look like an idiot because:
> 
> 1) You can't follow the rules.
> 
> ...



jesus how hard is it to keep your business out of my business? I know this is a public forum, but I asked my files back, not from you. thank you.


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## Eevee (Sep 8, 2008)

they are deleted and gone forever


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## AlexInsane (Sep 8, 2008)

Eevee said:


> they are deleted and gone forever



But WHY, Captain Eevee? Whywhywhywhywhy?

SPLAIN IT TO US.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 8, 2008)

purpledragonbreath said:


> jesus how hard is it to keep your business out of my business? I know this is a public forum, but I asked my files back, not from you. thank you.



Let's see:

Submission Agreement:

You waive Fur Affinity and its staff from any and all liability resultant from uploaded submissions or information transferred to the Fur Affinity service. You also accept that any submission uploaded to the Fur Affinity Domains is done of your own volition, and that you accept full responsibility for any consequences which may arise.* You agree that Fur Affinity is in no way responsible for monetary damages or losses incurred as a result of any submission or information uploaded to the site.*

Terms of Service:

Our Rights
Fur Affinity Administration and Staff reserve the rights of the following:

    ** To remove any and/or all submissions found not in accordance with the Terms of Service, Submission Agreement and Acceptable Upload Policy.* Fur Affinity will attempt to notify Users of any and all action taken upon submissions removed in this manner.


further down: 

Users found to be in violation of the policies set forth by the Terms of Service will have action taken against their account *which may involve removal of submissions*, temporary suspension from the Service and/or outright termination of their Fur Affinity membership.

You can't get them back. It's gone. You should have thought of that before you submitted that upon removal would it fall into any of the outlined parts I posted.


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## purpledragonbreath (Sep 8, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Let's see:
> 
> Submission Agreement:
> 
> ...




k thanks for nothing. FA staff just drops a notch on my appreciation list.

PS: you are not helping!

PSS: I'll shut up now, no reason to go on.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 8, 2008)

Ahh I see, classic scapegoat attack.


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## Stratelier (Sep 8, 2008)

Can we conclude this thread sometime . . . soon?

Purpledragon, you certainly learned one lesson the hard way:  if YOU don't have a personal copy / back-up of your images, don't rely on anyone else to have a copy of it themselves.  

That you personally dislike this aspect of the submission rules is irrelevant to the fact that if someone (anyone) submits material that breaks the rules, the admins are well within their rights (as stated in the policy) to delete it.

Read the AUP and you may note that whether or not an admin personally likes a submission is _not_ a criteria for deletion.  Ergo, you can't play the "because they didn't like it" card.


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## yak (Sep 9, 2008)

purpledragonbreath said:


> So do you have them or not? because it doesn't make you look good if you just deleted them.
> 
> it's like you're a photographer, and you give your pieces to a gallery, and over the first night they burn it "yeah sorry we didn't like it" with a big "fuck you" attached to it from the local drama community.
> 
> I don't care if you have to low-level scan your drives, just get them back.



My apologies for the excess zealotry of the people who posted in reply to you here. A simple but well formed reply should have been suffice.

To answer your question - no, we can not get you your files back, they were immediately deleted upon submission removal.
There is a 'soft delete' feature slated to be introduced to FA but even if it was already there right now the deleted submissions, their comments and files would be kept around a week or two max, and automatically pruned afterward. You commented on this thread two months after your submissions were removed, so the result would have been the same either way.


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## Ashkihyena (Sep 13, 2008)

Yeah, the rules here are pretty stupid, aren't they?  And yes, I wouldn't recommend deleting things you plan on uploading, cause if the staff doesn't delete them, the site will when it decides to go down next time.


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## Eevee (Sep 13, 2008)

preach it brother


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## Icarus (Sep 17, 2008)

If you don't allow Spore pictures or creations then why allow Second Life screen shots?
Aren't they really just one in the same?
You say you don't allow Spore creatures and creations because they follow set parts, but in all reality, Second life is the same thing except using primitive parts.  The only real difference between the two is that in Second Life you can use a so-called "sculptie" primitive.
If what the first post says is correct then the Admins should also remove Second Life screen shots that do -NOT- include sculpted primitives, just because the regular primitives (cube, sphere, pyramid) are all set parts (but can be tweaked).


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 17, 2008)

What the hell is with the red-herring arguments?

We're so done with this.


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