# Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to stop.



## ShioBear (Jun 17, 2015)

so here we go. obviously im going to get a bunch of shit from ignorant people who dont even know what feminism has become aswell as people who just dont want to see the truth but here goes. 

feminism at its core is a man blaming victimizing process.
feminism is used to make the user seem as if they are being victimised in order to gain a following to demonize the group in question ( mainly men)
feminism is not longer about equality it is about female  superiority. 


so no longer can a developer have a story about a strong male role saving a female because for some reason this is misogynist.
no longer can be escape fro reality with attractive characters.

anita sarkeesian isnt actually a gamer. she has stated countless times that she hated video games before she jumped on the gaming wagon to push false feminist redirect.

if her opinion was as stated just an opinion it would be no problem. but she is actively attacking games for being violent in any aspect and attacking any game with female characters that do not suit her impossible goals. she feels that it is no longer acceptable for artistic expression to dictate the creators game. she feels that all games should fit her crazy feminist guidelines.

if you dont like the violence - dont play it
if you dont like the way a character is- dont play it
if you dont like how the story plays out - dont play it right?

apparently not true. as if all games should be in her image, as if all games should succumb to feminist ideals. 

not only is she misandrist, but she is a liar. seeking 150,000$ for six 10-12 minute videos of her female characters in games tropes videos which we are yet to see more than 2 of in a long time. where is the money anita?

not only does she constantly contradict herself but she uses false information to state impossible claims of the wage gap myth and so on. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJjA4lKoHPc  here mr. Tj AA explaining on the video incident. of coarse most wont watch to the end like most feminists they will just flail their hands and scream lies without even considering another persons points. 

this woman has gotten GTA 5 pulled from the shelves of stores because there were some hookers that could be killed..... wtf? really? when its a gta game and you can kill any gender, rob banks do drugs.... its just a game. who is she to take away someone's escape from reality for the day?

like i said if it was just an opinion and she wasn't actively demonstritizing my hobbie to activly change it into something she sees fit i wouldn't care. but not only is she a liar and a thief. but she has a big hand in destroying what i know as gaming, a place of imagination where no outside fctors decide what i should be aloud to enjoy in my living room. who the fuck is she to tell me i cant play a fighting game filled with big breasted women? i dont see her attacking street fighter for a half naked sangeif. shes completely one sided.... honestly feminists i dont care wht you have to say. im venting. iv heard your rehashed arguments 10000 times and they don't matter. your fucking wrong get used to being wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfkS9YS_T0k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25o0EZiogw0

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCExXie1XB4
[/URL]


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## CaptainCool (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I saw her complaining about the new DOOM on Twitter. I bet she never played DOOM before and would love it if she tried it :3


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I dunno, she's just a critic. I don't agree with all her ideas (or for that matter Amazing Athiest's either) 

There's this growing movement among internet folk I've noticed. "Criticism is bad. Opinions that don't match mine are evil!!!" It's why you can't watch a top 10 vid anymore without a "just my opinion, don't flame me" warning. Which is redundant. Duh, we know it's your opinion. You don't have to cower at the thought of people yelling at you for having a thought. (Cuz they'll do it anyway)

I think Anita has some good points and some poor ones. But the amount of power that people give her (by viciously hating her and making her name known throughout the 7 kingdoms) is pretty ridiculous. Especially since the more you act like she is a big deal, the more of one she becomes.


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## Gryphoneer (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Holy hell, the gamergaters have found this forum!

ABANDON ALL HOPE


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## Astrium (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I dunno, she's just a critic. I don't agree with all her ideas (or for that matter Amazing Athiest's either)
> 
> There's this growing movement among internet folk I've noticed. "Criticism is bad. Opinions that don't match mine are evil!!!" It's why you can't watch a top 10 vid anymore without a "just my opinion, don't flame me" warning. Which is redundant. Duh, we know it's your opinion. You don't have to cower at the thought of people yelling at you for having a thought. (Cuz they'll do it anyway)
> 
> I think Anita has some good points and some poor ones. But the amount of power that people give her (by viciously hating her and making her name known throughout the 7 kingdoms) is pretty ridiculous. Especially since the more you act like she is a big deal, the more of one she becomes.



This pretty much sums up how I feel. Also, I need to correct the error in your title. Based on the content of your post, it should say "Why *Radical *Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry".


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> This pretty much sums up how I feel. Also, I need to correct the error in your title. Based on the content of your post, it should say "Why *Radical *Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry".



Nuh-uh, Astrium!!!! Treating females with dignity and changing harmful culture is nooooooooooo good! They got the vote, didn't even die for it! How much more do these whores need? :VVVV


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

why do they call it radical feminism when they dont even skateboard


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



CaptainCool said:


> I saw her complaining about the new DOOM on Twitter. I bet she never played DOOM before and would love it if she tried it :3


Does it matter what she plays or doesn't play? She's entitled to an opinion, and that's what bothers me. I mean, I like her stuff but I still disagree with her here and there. It's not my right to take anything away from her and her analysis is interesting to me. Also.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Everyone are free to criticize.

Everyone are free to criticize.

Everyone are free to criticize.

And about GTA V, it was a petition but it was the store's call all along, they chose to not sell the game.

And speaking of Doom I am so tired of all this opinion policing, it's gone to the point where I wanna do like the Doom marine and curb stomp people with their own legs. Fuckin stahp, internet. STAHP.


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

First sentence: "any who disagrees is lying or wrong"

Last sentence "I don't care what you have to say in defence"

MAXIMUM YOUTUBE COMMENT *explosion*


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Does it matter what she plays or doesn't play? She's entitled to an opinion, and that's what bothers me. I mean, I like her stuff but I still disagree with her here and there. It's not my right to take anything away from her and her analysis is interesting to me.


To be fair, if you're going to criticize something, it's best if you actually know what you're arguing. Like I saw a tweet by her the other day about how they finally gave Lara Croft appropriate winter gear in the newest game when she's had that all along :/
And she's made other pretty inaccurate statements so it kind of makes me question her credibility. 

And like I don't really care for Sarkeesian at all, but there are some pretty  good criticisms of the gaming community that have been around for ages  now that are pretty hard to ignore given the industry now. 


ShioBear said:


> so no longer can a developer have a story about a strong male role saving a female because for some reason this is misogynist.
> no longer can be escape fro reality with attractive characters.


Being  attractive isn't the problem, it's the fact that the vast majority of  female characters are made to also be overly sexualized (while in some  cases being the thing the main character is trying to save) in addition to being attractive. It's  especially noticeable if you compare battle armor for both male and  female characters. 

Sure you have some pretty kickass women leads who really aren't but honestly speaking, try to name a few that aren't Lara Croft, Samus, Zelda, or Chel



> if you dont like the violence - dont play it
> if you dont like the way a character is- dont play it
> if you dont like how the story plays out - dont play it right?


You really think that's the problem. It's not the games that are the  main issue, it's the players and how they react to literally any  criticism of the industry. Like I said, I don't like Sarkeesian but was  it really appropriate to send her death and rape threats because of what  she said? And it's not even her, literally any time someone criticizes  the industry, people are so quick to defend it and do that. 

Also  given the fact that a good chunk of gamers identify as female, saying  "hey if you don't like our games, just don't play them" is a good way to  send the message that 1.we don't care about your feelings or concerns  and 2.we don't want your business is a good way to alienate them and  also loose money



> apparently not true. as if all games should be in her image, as if all games should succumb to feminist ideals.


Oh noooo, how scary. Man get over yourself


> like i said if it was just an opinion and she wasn't actively  demonstritizing my hobbie to activly change it into something she sees  fit i wouldn't care. but not only is she a liar and a thief. but she has  a big hand in destroying what i know as gaming, a place of imagination  where no outside fctors decide what i should be aloud to enjoy in my  living room. who the fuck is she to tell me i cant play a fighting game  filled with big breasted women? i dont see her attacking street fighter  for a half naked sangeif.


Because male objectification really  isn't as prominent of a thing as female objectification is and he's not  really presented in a way that's supposed to be sexual as opposed to  Cammy or Chun-Li. Also because, if I'm not mistaken, Zangief is a  wrestler so...



> shes completely one sided.... honestly  feminists i dont care wht you have to say. im venting. iv heard your  rehashed arguments 10000 times and they don't matter. your fucking wrong  get used to being wrong.


Do you happen to own one of these, Shio?


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## Amiir (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I think this shit becomes poisonous only if someone gives it too much weight. This talk is so pointless, I don't get why anyone would waste so much time on it, let alone give some rabid feminists' opinion so much importance. These bitches are crazy, just ignore their horseshit, you'll live better. This is all I have to say on the matter


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> Because male objectification really  isn't as prominent of a thing as female objectification is and he's not  really presented in a way that's supposed to be sexual as opposed to  Cammy or Chun-Li. Also because, if I'm not mistaken, Zangief is a  wrestler so...



Also, Zangief looks the way he does because it's what males think are cool and awesome...not ecause it's sexy for women. Zangief is a boner killer really. (That chest hair D: ) If Zangief's ass was more tight and his face more beautiful their argument would atleast have some grounds...but instead you get shit like this that is completely unironic. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fe6ddXKHgmo/TuWUPM7Q6vI/AAAAAAAAGO4/m4YeOemVW_Y/s400/5.jpg


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## Gryphoneer (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Nuh-uh, Astrium!!!! Treating females with dignity and changing harmful culture is nooooooooooo good! They got the vote, didn't even die for it! How much more do these whores need? :VVVV



'gaters and guys who complain feminism is poisonous (same diff, really) are like Teabaggers who see brown people cross the street and break out in kneejerk cries of "I want MY America back!" 

"What, there's womenfolk who think it's suspect that all girls in games are character-free fap material and get routinely stuffed in the proverbial refrigerator to provide a motivation for the male PC? I want MY games back!!"


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## zanian (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

OP, you could just play the games you enjoy without caring about the debates, you know?


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Amiir said:


> I think this shit becomes poisonous only if someone gives it too much weight. This talk is so pointless, I don't get why anyone would waste so much time on it, let alone give some rabid feminists' opinion so much importance. These bitches are crazy, just ignore their horseshit, you'll live better. This is all I have to say on the matter


What makes them so crazy? I'm pretty sure gaming feminists haven't quite gone to leg spreading territory yet.

At least I hope not. I'll say this; men shouldn't have to wear cock-burqas.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I would enjoy more penises in games, but maybe that's just me. 

Free the Cocks.


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## Taikugemu (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

But the gaming industry is already rotten. o:


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I would enjoy more penises in games, but maybe that's just me.
> 
> Free the Cocks.



You see so many lady bits, but no Geralt penis is The Witcher III!


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Also, Zangief looks the way he does because it's what males think are cool and awesome...not ecause it's sexy for women. Zangief is a boner killer really. (That chest hair D: ) If Zangief's ass was more tight and his face more beautiful their argument would atleast have some grounds...but instead you get shit like this that is completely unironic. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fe6ddXKHgmo/TuWUPM7Q6vI/AAAAAAAAGO4/m4YeOemVW_Y/s400/5.jpg


That too

Also there's a lot of variability to men overall, especially in fighting games. I think out of the big ones though, the new Mortal Kombat isn't as sexualized. Then again I've only played it a few times.


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Blackberry Polecat said:


> You see so many lady bits, but no Geralt penis is The Witcher III!


That, my good sir, would be objectification and hurt the self-image of so many fickle little neckbeards.


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> That, my good sir, would be objectification and hurt the self-image of so many fickle little neckbeards.



But Geralt penis. ;_;


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## Ozriel (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

As the gaming audience diversifies, so should games in order to appeal to a diverse audience. It
is not being an "SJW", it's smart marketing. You want people to buy and enjoy your product.



Butters Shikkon said:


> I would enjoy more penises in games, but maybe that's just me.
> 
> Free the Cocks.



Talk to the ESRB and policy on "erect penises". Apparently, it is more offensive than showing tits and bush. :V


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> As the gaming audience diversifies, so should games in order to appeal to a diverse audience. It
> s not being an "SJW", it's smart marketing. You want people to buy and enjoy your product.


Economics are anti-white and misandrist. >:[


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## Ozriel (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Economics are anti-white and misandrist. >:[


Indeed. Having the Iron Bull sexing guys too is totally Feminist pandering (and LGBT pandering).


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> Talk to the ESRB and policy on "erect penises". Apparently, it is more offensive than showing tits and bush. :V



I'm sure there's a joke to be made about how men in power are terrified of their own penis, but alas...I'm not clever enough to make it. 

u.u


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## Artillery Spam (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm still trying to figure out why feminism is even relevant in 2015.


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## Ozriel (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I'm sure there's a joke to be made about how men in power are terrified of their own penis, but alas...I'm not clever enough to make it.
> 
> u.u



We can easily rectify this by putting monkey sockpuppets on Erect penises in video games, TV, and Movies. That way, they are too busy loling to care about the size of that man's cock.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> I'm still trying to figure out why feminism is even relevant in 2015.



Lots of reasons. 

Reproductive rights are a nice example for Western nations.


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> I'm still trying to figure out why feminism is even relevant in 2015.


Well, if you ask me, I'd say Men's Rights Activism.

That movement is why I decided to be a feminist, depressingly enough.



Ozriel said:


> We can easily rectify this by putting monkey sockpuppets on Erect penises in video games, TV, and Movies. That way, they are too busy loling to care about the size of that man's cock.


Cock-burqas, man... cock-burqas!


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## Fallowfox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm not _too_ knowledgeable about all this, because I'm not actually interested in games that much. I do know that Anita lied on her kickstarter campaign then claimed the criticism on twitter that resulted, when people found out, gave her post-traumatic-stress-disorder.
She even got the police to provide her with an escort, even after they deemed the threat to her well being to be 'non existent'.


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## Gryphoneer (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> I'm still trying to figure out why feminism is even relevant in 2015.



For the same reason black rights movements remained relevant after 1863.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I dunno, she's just a critic.
> 
> I think Anita has some good points and some poor ones. But the amount of  power that people give her (by viciously hating her and making her name  known throughout the 7 kingdoms) is pretty ridiculous. Especially since  the more you act like she is a big deal, the more of one she  becomes.



To be honest I think the real issue is that she _wasn't_ just a critic; she was essentially a con-artist because she appealed to people to give her their money under false pretenses. She has thus far gotten away with it by accusing critics of being misogynistic.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> To be honest I think the real issue is that she _wasn't_ just a critic; she was essentially a con-artist because she appealed to people to give her their money under false pretenses. She has thus far gotten away with it by accusing critics of being misogynistic.



Well, maybe she did some shady things and maybe she didn't. 

But what we are talking about in this thread is her feminist criticisms of the gaming industry. And those issues are not tied to money. After all, how is making more diverse games hurting anyone? Giving female characters equal development cannot be shady. Or how about addressing the overall obsession with straight male sexuality whilst objectifying women? (And excluding lgbt all the while?)


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## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I find it super funny that a man is the puppetmaster of Anitas show


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I find it super funny that a man is the puppetmaster of Anitas show


I love the hole "puppet master" thing, it's like, we gotta make a conspiracy theory outta this shit and maybe find an excuse to trick people we're not misogynists by claiming a man was behind it all along. This is the best plan!


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## Luki (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Games are just games to me. I don't care if it's about saving the princess[Mario] or a special ops who likes to punch men in the nut[MKx], if it's enjoyable.

I have a hard time getting upset over them.


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## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I love the hole "puppet master" thing, it's like, we gotta make a conspiracy theory outta this shit and maybe find an excuse to trick people we're not misogynists by claiming a man was behind it all along. This is the best plan!



Literally everything anita says, he has said before her.. word for word 

She literally repeAts what shes been told

Like A.... parrot 

A parrot who dont even play the games she criticizes 

Hrrrrmmm


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## PastryOfApathy (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Gamergate is fucking stupid. Stop giving her, Zoe Quinn, and Brianna Who gives a shit attention. They're just angry tumblr-lurking given flesh who know they can get attention they desperately want by whacking the manchild-ridden, super-defensive. reactionary hornets nest that is the gaming community.

You are all terrible.


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Literally everything anita says, he has said before her.. word for word
> 
> She literally repeAts what shes been told
> 
> ...


It's called agreement, Volk. 

But okay, she didn't play the games. And the nazis were gay and whites are facing global genocide.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It's called agreement, Volk.
> 
> But okay, she didn't play the games. And the nazis were gay and whites are facing global genocide.



Also, Straight Women sharing ideals with their husbands is sexist now...or something...I really don't get the Mackintosh Master Plan arc of this season of Gamer Thrones.


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## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It's called agreement, Volk.
> 
> But okay, she didn't play the games. And the nazis were gay and whites are facing global genocide.



You like wearing blindfolds almost as much as i do


@POA im breaking up w you
i wont tolerate this level of disrespect


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> You like wearing blindfolds almost as much as i do


Of course, it's all about the sensation. You don't need eyes for that stuff. <3


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## Artillery Spam (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Lots of reasons.
> 
> Reproductive rights are a nice example for Western nations.



I'm ignorant of the situation in Europe, but abortion is more or less legal in the US; fathers and husbands don't get an opinion in what a female can do with her parasite unless you're talking about white politicians (who are rapidly becoming outmoded due to the neo-liberalization of America and the introduction of women into US politics). Women are also bestowed with preferential treatment in child custody cases. 

Again: why is feminism relevant in 2015?


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## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> I'm ignorant of the situation in Europe, but abortion is more or less legal in the US. Women also receive preferential treatment in child custody cases.
> 
> I honestly don't know what more rights they require.



"We want free tampons cause we dont choose to have periods

Ok well nobody chooses to shit. Wheres our free shit paper


Feminism aint shit. Esp in 1st world countries. Its done nothing for third worls either


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## Charrio (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Why does she matter again?


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> I'm ignorant of the situation in Europe, but abortion is more or less legal in the US; fathers and husbands don't get an opinion in what a female can do with her parasite unless you're talking about white politicians (who are rapidly becoming outmoded due to the neo-liberalization of America and the introduction of women into US politics). Women are also bestowed with preferential treatment in child custody cases.
> 
> Again: why is feminism relevant in 2015?


When equality is achieved it must be maintained, no? Or are you saying people should've stopped caring about black rights after interracial marriage was legalized?


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## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

She was throwin shade at E3 for lara croft "finally wearing coats in snowy  scenes"
Little did she know -- caisw she dont play games -- is that lara has always worn coats in winter scenes lol

She's a dingus


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## Butters Shikkon (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> (who are rapidly becoming outmoded due to the neo-liberalization of America and the introduction of women into US politics).



http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/184/961/tumblr_lnvvueuSsj1qcj56b.png

Also, don't forget the Hobby Lobby birthcontrol/fuckyouandyourhealthcareplan,serf thing. Also, still a lot of rape victims (both female and male) catching the blame going around.


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## quarterbunny (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I am a hardcore female gamer, my house is practically an arcade (I have a real race car in my living room with a racing sim in it/ full submersion three screen pc gaming) all the retro consoles, and all the modern ones as well. I am also a classic feminist as well... my great grand mother got votes for women in the state of Arizona while it was still a territory... What they call feminism today is in my view, mocking what women a century ago underwent torture to achieve. If we used Sarkeesian logic on other equality issues, then gay women would be greater than gay men... and so forth. I believe people should be equal, full stop. I like making my RPG characters look hot... I view it as nothing more than artistic freedom. If the games only allowed cookie cutter female representation.... then that representation would destroy the stories in games.


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/184/961/tumblr_lnvvueuSsj1qcj56b.png
> 
> Also, don't forget the Hobby Lobby birthcontrol/fuckyouandyourhealthcareplan,serf thing. Also, still a lot of rape victims (both female and male) catching the blame going around.


Post reported for misandry.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



quarterbunny said:


> I am a hardcore female gamer, my house is practically an arcade (I have a real race car in my living room with a racing sim in it/ full submersion three screen pc gaming) all the retro consoles, and all the modern ones as well. I am also a classic feminist as well... my great grand mother got votes for women in the state of Arizona while it was still a territory... What they call feminism today is in my view, mocking what women a century ago underwent torture to achieve. If we used Sarkeesian logic on other equality issues, then gay women would be greater than gay men... and so forth. I believe people should be equal, full stop. I like making my RPG characters look hot... I view it as nothing more than artistic freedom. If the games only allowed cookie cutter female representation.... then that representation would destroy the stories in games.



Brianna Wu tried to break the ebil sexist mold of vidya by creating her own game....
full of women in skimpy outfits

Feminists operate on "its only ok if i do it"

They freak out about women being killed in vidya games but dont care about the bucket loads more men who are killed
see: Hatred
they got mad that there was an achievement for killing wimminz
they got mad that there was an achievement for killing men.... but.... not because of the killing part
because the achievement was called Feminist


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/184/961/tumblr_lnvvueuSsj1qcj56b.png
> 
> Also, don't forget the Hobby Lobby birthcontrol/fuckyouandyourhealthcareplan,serf thing. Also, still a lot of rape victims (both female and male) catching the blame going around.



Since when did feminism care about male suffrage?

And American women have access to birth control. They are literally in control of their bodies. 

They can dictate when sex happens, why it happens, and where it happens. They can close their hoohahs up for years on end and there isn't a damn thing men can do about it. 

Women are simply the masters of marriage and relationships in 2015.  

They can work their own jobs, start their own businesses, run for public office, receive lighter sentences for the same crime that a male commits, terminate a marriage and screw a dude out of his hard-earned moolah, get their wants and necessities sated by a limitless supply of beta males, set themselves up as the queens of college and university campuses with laughable ease, liberally flirt their way out of traffic tickets, remain practically uncontested while abusing their spouses, be borderline immune from male retaliation if they start a fist fight WITH a man, get into clubs for free---bla bla bla. 

The list goes on and on. 

How are they oppressed in 2015? What rights do they require? 

Yo, if the technology existed, I'd fucking polymorph myself into a chick ASAP. 

Spawning in with a vagina (and a cute face to boot) seems like a surefire way to financial security in the US.



Kellie Gator said:


> When equality is achieved it must be maintained, no? Or are you saying people should've stopped caring about black rights after interracial marriage was legalized?



1) The Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s was one of the largest sociopolitical blunders of the 20th century. Blacks turned in their distinct culture, their heritage, and their racial identity in exchange for being granted a one-way ticket into white society. 

Only a paltry bundle of eminent and influential black leaders--such as Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Benjamin "Pap" Singleton, Booker T. Washington, and Martin Delany--even entertained the possibility of black self-determinism and a sovereign homeland for a broken and downtrodden people. The aforementioned men (save for Booker T. Washington and Malcolm X) do not come to mind when people contemplate the phrases "black rights" and "black freedom". Today, MLK--the de facto champion and hero-god of Afro-America--is venerated unconditionally. 

The Civil Rights generation must have had Stockholm syndrome. Or they hated themselves. Or they were just idiots that didn't fully digest the potential cultural, political, or economical ramifications that their ridiculous movement would have on Afro-America. 

They didn't care about the hard work that they had put into constructing their own businesses and neighborhoods. They didn't give a shit about Rosewood, Greenwood, or Hayti. 

They just wanted the opportunity to snatch a buttery biscuit off of the table of some white restaurant so that they could feel equal to pale people. 

That is the very definition of a sellout and a self-loathing Negro. 

I cannot stand them. 

2) The Neo-Civil Rights Movement of the 21st century, contrary to mainstream interpretation, does not promote the special interests of Afro-Americans, but is a corrupt social movement kept afloat by all of the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons of far and yonder. Supporters of this movement preach their bullshit rhetoric to the miserable inner city masses, telling them that slavery, institutionalized racism, and a secret cohort of disgusting Anglo-Saxon males are to blame for their shitty, miserable lives.  It has turned into a lynch mob movement that seeks to keep Afro-America entrenched deeply within the diabolical Cult of Victimology. 

These confused plebeians would rather march, riot, loot, shout, and holler for some social degenerate like Freddie Gray but no one will honor the innocent men, women, and children that have fallen prey to black gang violence. 

Not a goddamn word from black preachers and not a peep out of black civic organizations. 

I mean, the NAACP was principally initiated and administrated by Anglo-Saxons and Ashkenazi Jews. That alone should tell you enough.


----------



## Lomberdia (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> As the gaming audience diversifies, so should games in order to appeal to a diverse audience. It
> is not being an "SJW", it's smart marketing. You want people to buy and enjoy your product.
> 
> 
> ...


Erect cocks can rape. Women are weak minded and easily offended so we must protect them by censoring and shaming the male body and showing them more female body parts so they can relate. So more tits and fine curvy assess for all! Thank you feminism. :V


Volkodav said:


> Brianna Wu tried to break the ebil sexist mold of vidya by creating her own game....
> full of women in skimpy outfits
> 
> Feminists operate on "its only ok if i do it"
> ...


Name of the achievement for killing the women: Equality.


If I could polymorph into a female, I might as long I'm sexy. Even if I wasn't, in today's world, it wouldn't matter. Even an ugly girl can pimp hersef out and make a lot of cash. Being female: life on easy difficulty. The females that complain about it just aren't open to the many options available to her. Thank pride or whatever for that.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I still don't get why Anita gets so much venom. Yeah, she says something's I don't agree with, but she also brings up stuff I do agree with. Either way, if you don't like someone, then why constantly talk about them? You don't want her relevant in the gaming industry, yet its people like you who constantly bitch about her and give her attention by making several thread post, news articles, twitters posts, etc. 

You're causing you're own frustration, which is what makes me think that more and more people are becoming insane, by not realizing that. Don't like her, stop talking about her, play your games, end of story


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

There are so many fucked up things about anita. The main one being that she dont even like vidya games
second one being its been proven false that gamergate attacked her
anita is not relevant in the game commuity


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> There are so many fucked up things about anita. The main one being that she dont even like vidya games
> second one being its been proven false that gamergate attacked her
> anita is not relevant in the game commuity



But she is becoming relevant in the gaming community cause everyone won't stop talking about her. That tweet she made about DOOM? People coulda easily ignored that, yet you got dumbasses bitching on Youtube about her and some other guy's twitter posts


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

When someone comes in to destroy your community youre gonna take out the threat


I found it funny how she complained about how she loved fallout 4s crafting system but "wish it focused less on making things to kill"
like...
lady
you own fallout 3, i saw the game case in a picture you took

Why dont you fuck off and go play some animal crossing or something
cooking mama


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> When someone comes in to destroy your community youre gonna take out the threat



And if you wanna take out a threat thats mostly present online, you ignore it completely. Almost everything thats ignored online, dies out from zero attention. This thread however, probably just exposed more people who didnt even know about Anita, so the goal of "take out the threat" has been hindered

Once again, I really don't see her as bad as how everyone else sees her, but if they're goal is to keep her relevancy low, they gotta stop bitching about her


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Mmmmm nope
it involves dragging her and showing people how fucking stupid she is


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

And what if some people don't agree?


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Well those people should be ignored because the method i stated is the only way to combat this idiot


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Is this what that whole GamerGate BS was about?



Artillery Spam said:


> Since when did feminism care about male suffrage?
> 
> And American women have access to birth control. They are literally in control of their bodies.
> 
> ...



While there are a few points I agree with you on, you come across as a massive tool and a try-hard. We get it; you go against the grain and are "edgy".


----------



## LazerMaster5 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> While there are a few points I agree with you on, you come across as a massive tool and a try-hard. We get it; you go against the grain and are "edgy".


You think he is being "edgy"? I don't think you know what that word means.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



LazerMaster5 said:


> You think he is being "edgy"? I don't think you know what that word means.



Well whatever he's being its a joke of the highest order. Any dude who thinks we shouldn't have done the civil rights movement is either a troll, a KKK member or on crack cocaine. I can't figure out which one he is.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Artillery is my boyfriend 
dont yell at him


----------



## FrostHusky81 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I find it very hard to give a flying fuck about what Anita Sarkeesian says or does. There's already plenty of attention whores out there. Why feed the already growing flame?


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'll yell at him for being ignorant if I want to. He can defend himself Volk, he's a big boy. Just like these idiots in the media can defend themselves when they're called out for posting bullshit articles, like Anita.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

No, he has sensitive feels and will bruise like a peach


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

...then he shoudlnt' post on a forum.


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## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

i am literally speechless
how dare you talk about him like that you cis het male
typical misogyny


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

lol you're funny Volk


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> Well whatever he's being its a joke of the highest order. Any dude who thinks we shouldn't have done the civil rights movement is either a troll, a KKK member or on crack cocaine. I can't figure out which one he is.


Doesn't matter what I think. Afro-Americans are integrated into white society. This group (that you and I belong to) gave up its hard-earned gains and idiosyncratic cultural personality for a chance to assimilate into the dominant culture of a sovereign nation that was founded, forged, and defended by a completely foreign racial group. 

In principle, there is nothing wrong with this, but when you throw LBJ's retarded-as-sin social programs and Bill Clinton's "War on Drugs" agenda into the engine that is Afro-America, you wind up with 1/4th of a population that is enrolled in some sort of welfare program, 1/5th of a population working for a white-dominated government institution, a host of shattered families, a black homicide rate that is DOUBLE that of the pre-integration figure, black feminists being the proverbial backbone of the black community, an unemployment rate that is higher than the pre-integration mark, and a black church (with a 75-80 percent female congregation) that is so hilariously corrupt that you'd be better off purging the entire institution and beginning anew. 

THAT is your reward and THIS is what's festering within the farthest recesses of the internet at an alarming rate. This is what's going to eventually gnarl its way into the forefront of the American social arena if the US doesn't stop taking a collective dump on white dudes. You will not see anyone addressing this in the mainstream media because the mainstream media is nothing more than the lifeless, brainless pawn of SJWs and die-hard ultra-leftists that are too busy scuttling and scraping to preserve the multicultural, pro-female status quo while a nigh-unstoppable beast is slowly swelling in size in this nation's own backyard. 

They aren't going to point the public into the direction of these works:

http://www.amazon.com/Into-Cannibals-Pot-Lessons-Post-Apartheid/dp/0984907017

http://www.amazon.com/White-Girl-Bleed-Lot-Violence/dp/1479299022

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Black-Kids-Angry-ebook/dp/B00U5N25XC/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

And they sure as hell aren't going to bring up MGTOW, MRA, or the deep animosity emanating from the manosphere. 

The links above? That is what white writers are saying about the seedy dregs of Afro-America. If you browse the internet and plug the correct search terms into Google, you will be swamped by a never-ending sea of anti-black blogs that make little mention of Jews or Hispanics. The rule of the day is to despise the hell out of blacks, SOMEHOW give Hispanics a pass, and _maybe_ pay some attention to white liberals.

This isn't me defending whites. 

This isn't me screaming "Go team Europe! Kick those moronic Pakis out of your backyard! Hooray for white altruism! Thank GAWD for deh white man!"

This isn't me shedding tears for South Africa. 

This is me making a number of keen observations and dark predictions from the information that I've gathered from my own personal library of politically incorrect writings. I find these enlightening but troubling works because I stalk the Anglosphere like a savage, vicious raptor that's on the prowl for anything that appears delicious enough to snap up in my deadly talons. 

You can't call me a supporter of the KKK because I champion black self-determinism, I prefer black women, and I covet the opportunity to muster 100,000 of Afro-America's best and brightest and work with them to craft a nation that CAN survive well into the 22nd century without suckling from the teat of our friends in the West or the East. I want to turn one "Black Wall Street" into twenty such neighborhoods! I want sixty Rosewoods to pepper this new country!

A species survives by adapting to a changing environment; a human group adapts by changing its tactics. Many black people, but certainly not all, are failing to do both.

In reality, I'm a goddamn racial conundrum--an ethnic enigma--and you know it. You can't pin that "Uncle Tom" bullshit on me because I practically _worship _black men and women like your parents because they are the ONLY black people that I can have a damn conversation with without running the risk of having my pretty kitty face caved in for having the "wrong" opinion. If I could go back in time before your ass was born and force them to produce 15 children, then that's 15 more Sylox's that may help offset the number of uncouth mental cases that infest the southern districts of Chicago. 

Expand your mind. The Civil Rights Movement wasn't all that it's totted as.

But hey, I'm just ignorant and a retard. I'm some hick KKK agent posing as some melanin-imbued asshole from some remote corner of the US.

You fucks can burn for all I care. I'll be in Barbados watching the decline from the safety of a beach recliner.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

As I said before we largely agree...to a point. The minute you said the Civil Rights Movement was worthless was the point I wrote you off as a fucking tool. Own that shit bro; be proud of it! Black self-determinism my ass; that's fucking stupid. Why do you hate integration so much? Are you okay with things like Plessy v. Ferguson and Jim Crow, because that was the alternative and I guarantee we would have only started desegregating in the 90s after Clinton became President and the War on Drugs is necessary dude; don't feed that "its racist" bullshit and yes I detest the Black Church, mainly for allowing the DL culture to prosper with their anti-gay stance and I hate that we are fucking materialistic; rimmz are okay, but fuck a 401K, that's for whitey. 

Like I said, I agree with you to a point.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

That isn't what he's saying, Sylox. He's said straight up that "the civil right's movement wasn't all it's toted as", which it wasn't.
The Civil Right's movement was meant to encourage blacks to stand together and be strong and move forward with rights.. but that isn't how it turned out. He's saying it's turned out as a way for blacks to stew in animosity for anyone who isn't black and to cry "discrimination" at the drop of a hat ---- which it has -- all while citing MLK quotes.
Instead of bringing the black community together, it's caused it to become rife with victim complexes.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Well okay, all he had to say was that and not go into la la land and don't defend him, he can do that on his own.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> Well okay, all he had to say was that and not go into la la land and don't defend him, he can do that on his own.



I'm agreeing with him, not defending him. I agree with what he's said about this because it's true.

I'm actually confused about why you're even arguing with his base point, considering you yourself agreed with it before.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I agree with him, I don't agree how he framed his response. He regularly posts shit that makes him look like a complete tool because he likes to beat around the bush instead of getting to the answer directly.

And I stand by what I said about the War on Drugs and Desegregation. Get at me noobs


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> And I stand by what I said about the War on Drugs and Desegregation. Get at me noobs



The war on drugs is useless and ineffective. in america, it's a really good way to throw them ebil blacks in jail though!!!!!!
Are you aware of this?
Target poor communities
Many blacks are in poor communities
Throw em in jail for havin a roach in their car
Another black guy off the street!


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Not my problem bro. Don't do drugs and you won't have that problem; why are you supporting a victim complex? 

Sure, white communities are actually the highest consumers of drugs in this country, but that can easily be changed with a shift in policy. I see no reason to end a program that has so far done its job to get drug users and drug dealers off the street. Again it comes down to the law and too me some of those people have trouble following it, thus they need to pay a price.


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> I see no reason to end a program that has so far done its job to get drug users and drug dealers off the street.





edit: i just realized how off topic we've gotten so im done with this drug topic


----------



## Student (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It- it's only game! Why you heff to be mad?!

Video games are inconsequential distractions. Get mad about something that matters.


----------



## Troj (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

First up, other people can only "ruin" something you enjoy if you choose to pay attention to them.

Second, _some_ feminists have indeed tried to turn video games into yet another vehicle for pushing their beliefs and enforcing their ideology, but if feminists have eroded the discourse, then Gamergaters just plain shat on it and set it on fire when they started doxxing, threatening, and harassing anyone who even remotely disagreed with them.

_If that wasn't crappy enough, _we have social justice opportunists who've exaggerated or flat-out lied about being harassed, just so that they could attract sympathy and Twitter followers_._ These shitlords make life that much harder for the people who actually have been harassed or threatened, because now the concern trolls seem more credible and believable when they claim that these people are "making it all up."

Things started to go downhill when people decided that other people like them were _not_ people like them, and that if YOU get a video game made _your_ way, it means that _I _lose somehow. It's fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Feminists are always bitching about something. Why do they constantly nag nag nag :V


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> As I said before we largely agree...to a point. The minute you said the Civil Rights Movement was worthless was the point I wrote you off as a fucking tool. Own that shit bro; be proud of it! Black self-determinism my ass; that's fucking stupid. Why do you hate integration so much? Are you okay with things like Plessy v. Ferguson and Jim Crow, because that was the alternative and I guarantee we would have only started desegregating in the 90s after Clinton became President and the War on Drugs is necessary dude; don't feed that "its racist" bullshit and yes I detest the Black Church, mainly for allowing the DL culture to prosper with their anti-gay stance and I hate that we are fucking materialistic; rimmz are okay, but fuck a 401K, that's for whitey.
> 
> Like I said, I agree with you to a point.



It's less about the WoD being racist and more about it being unequivocally preposterous when it's placed into proper context. 

For one, the WoD is pointless. People want their fix, they're willing to pay top dollar for it, and they don't give a shit who's dealing. Federal tried this nonsense back during the Prohibition Era (which caused organized and violent crime to explode). When the act was repealed, everyone put their Chicago Typewriters away, cheered, and celebrated with a nice cold bottle of liquor. 

 Rather than playing Whac-A-Mole with Mexican drug cartels across the border, drug peddlers in the ghetto, and meth heroes in yuppie suburbs, why not have the US government become the new de facto drug cultivator and distributor? Let's turn Uncle Sam into the formal God of Dank. 

The government would be better off legalizing weed (and possibly other drugs) and taxing the crap out of it. If such a piece of legislation were to be found palatable, opportunities for US citizens to secure gainful employment would probably manifest. The justice system would save millions while the US government would rake in billions. Since THC lowers aggression within people, you may even see a sharp reduction in violent crime across the country since people would be too busy inhaling copious amounts of weed smoke to even care about the asshole down the street that pilfered their brand new PS4. 

Drug gangs would practically vanish over night, saving thousands of lives on an annual basis. 

You've established yourself as a stalwart well-wisher of capitalism. Why pass up a market as juicy as this?

EDIT: Yeah, this is super OT. 

See what happens when you let me into threads?


----------



## AlexInsane (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> No, he has sensitive feels and will bruise like a peach



WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT DATING FRUITS

And now it's too late.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Wasnt this thread about Anita or somethin?


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> It's less about the WoD being racist and more about it being unequivocally preposterous when it's placed into proper context.
> 
> For one, the WoD is pointless. People want their fix, they're willing to pay top dollar for it, and they don't give a shit who's dealing. Federal tried this nonsense back during the Prohibition Era (which caused organized and violent crime to explode). When the act was repealed, everyone put their Chicago Typewriters away, cheered, and celebrated with a nice cold bottle of liquor.
> 
> ...



It's bad enough I support legalization provided they tax the living fuck out of that shit, but don't legalize hard drugs and bro, the WOD has a purpose and to scrap it would cause a massive drug epidemic in this country. Instead of allowing druggies to have their fix, lock them up and throw away the key. Get even tougher on drug users and dealers and I guarantee you'll see usage go down.

Enough of being soft in this country; why is everyone so scared of being tough? Be a man or woman and put your damn foot down!

LET'S GET BACK ON TOPIC


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Wasnt this thread about Anita or somethin?


Here's your daily dose of Anita stupidity




















People like that ^^^^ are destroying the gaming industry. They dont even play video games but they have so many demands for developers.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

She comes across as a fucking opportunistic bitch using Feminism to raise her fucking profile in life. OMG, who cares if Laura Croft doesn't wear a shirt!!! IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME BITCH! You think she's gonna get cold?


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> She comes across as a fucking opportunistic bitch using Feminism to raise her fucking profile in life. OMG, who cares if Laura Croft doesn't wear a shirt!!! IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME BITCH! You think she's gonna get cold?



Don't try to logic with feminists, it's a language they don't understand
Just shut them and their followers down with facts whenever they crop up


----------



## Ozriel (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> She comes across as a fucking opportunistic bitch using Feminism to raise her fucking profile in life. OMG, who cares if Laura Croft doesn't wear a shirt!!! IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME BITCH! You think she's gonna get cold?



As much as I disagree with Anita, wearing short shorts in the Tibetan mountains, Uzbekistan, or Russia is not exactly a good idea...
Wear tight pants instead :V


----------



## DarrylWolf (Jun 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Anita Sarkeesian knows the importance of framing the narrative because if she wasn't a victim but rather a woman caught in a lie than she wouldn't garner any sympathy at all, now would she? It's hypocrisy because she hates the "damsel in distress" storylines in games but will use the same setup to summon her white knights to ruthlessly attack people who disagree with her, because she doesn't have the strength to shrug off the nasty comments herself. I've been opposed to her agenda, primarily because video games as a source of entertainment rise or fall on the entertainment value they possess, not the social commentary they give. No one in the 1980s ever criticized Zelda and Peach for being "damseled" or Ms. Pac-Man for having a hairbow and lipstick so it seems presentist to view the problems of 1980s games by modern feminist standards.


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## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> People like that ^^^^ are destroying the gaming industry. They dont even play video games but they have so many demands for developers.



That's my main issue with Anita Sarkeesian, too. She has actually done a couple of videos that were compelling and persuasive (much to my surprise), but most of the time, I feel like she really just needs to put her money where her mouth is and create "the perfect feminist game."

For one thing, I tend to feel that if you're not seeing the kind of media you want, you should just create it.

For another, I've noticed that Anita Sarkeesian is often vague and self-contradictory when talking about what games should or shouldn't do in order to embody True Feminism. Most noticeably, sometimes she gripes about women in games not kicking enough ass, and other times, she gripes about how there aren't enough games build around "feminine" qualities like cooperation and peace-making. (And then, she doesn't go into any detail about how you'd go about creating a "feminine" game built around peace and cooperation instead of fighting and competition.) 

Compare that to Extra Credits, which is an excellent video game critique channel whose creators are also clearly very ethical, nice, and socially conscious, without being SJWs or crybabies.



			
				Kellie Gator said:
			
		

> Well, if you ask me, I'd say Men's Rights Activism.
> 
> That movement is why I decided to be a feminist, depressingly enough.



I'm much more sympathetic to feminism than I was only a few years ago, and it's largely thanks to me finally seeing with my own eyes how bad and aggressive the Gamergater-types, bitter misogynistic nerds, and the worst MRAs really are, and how milder (on the surface) versions of their most odious attitudes are even held by some "regular folk."

For all her shortcomings, at least Anita Sarkeesian has never sent anyone death or rape threats.

Well, and as Butters noted on the first page, the more attention people give to Anita Sarkeesian, the more popular and well-known she becomes. In the same vein, the more butthurt geeks go after the likes of Brianna Wu, Rebecca Watson, Anita Sarkeesian, and Zoe Quinn the more they end up making feminists look good, innocent, righteous, and right, by making themselves look stupid, cruel, and mean.

(Same goes for aggressive Twitter feminists who try to destroy people's careers over dongles and tacky t-shirts--when you punch someone who _isn't punching back, _you look like a bully.)


----------



## Volkodav (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> That's my main issue with Anita Sarkeesian, too. She has actually done a couple of videos that were compelling and persuasive (much to my surprise), but most of the time, I feel like she really just needs to put her money where her mouth is and create "the perfect feminist game."


Breanna Wu did that and winded up making a game filled with waif-thin women wearing skimpy outfits.



Troj said:


> Most noticeably, sometimes she gripes about women in games not kicking enough ass, and other times, she gripes about how there aren't enough games build around "feminine" qualities like cooperation and peace-making.


This is the funniest bit for me. Feminists will say "why wasn't there a female protaganist?!?!?!?!" and then Fallout says "here's one, you can choose and customize", and then the feminists spend the rest of their time saying "I BET THE MEN WILL BE SO MAD ABOUT THIS!!!! LOOK AT THIS! WOMAN CHARACTER!!! ARE YOU MAD YET??" and we're just like yeahhh cool that's nice.
Then when nobody fucking cares, she goes "I wish FO4's crafting system wasn't about killing!".... why are you fucking PLAYING FALLOUT 4 THEN.
GO PLAY COOKING MAMA



Troj said:


> For all her shortcomings, at least Anita Sarkeesian has never sent anyone death or rape threats.


Gamergate doesn't send death threats. Anita faked it and it's been proven fake.

You know what anti-gamergate did though? They sent knives and syringes to prominent gamergate members in the mail.


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## Sylox (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Again its just people finding something to bitch about. They have nothing going on in their life so they have to be mad at something.


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## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Gamergate doesn't send death threats. Anita faked it and it's been proven fake.



He said, she said. Somebody has to be lying or exaggerating here.

I've read articles with chat logs, Twitter logs, forum screencaps, and documented firsthand accounts that point to self-described and alleged Gamergaters voicing pretty nasty opinions about women and minorities, and also banding together in places like 4chan to plan online troll attacks against feminists they didn't like.

People who tell me "Oh, Gamergate never does that!" have never really been able to definitely prove that the "real" Gamergate doesn't do "that," and they've never been able to really explain what Gamergate actually _does _if it doesn't do "that."

I'm all about giving people the benefit of the doubt and hearing both sides of the story, but almost everything I've read, heard, and seen related to Gamergate indicates to me that the vast majority of the folks strongly affiliated with it have a conscious or unconscious axe to grind against uppity bitches and/or other minorities who're ruining games and society for normal people. 

Even if Gamergate wasn't originally meant to be that, that it has that reputation now means that it's attracting the wrong people to the yard. 

Of course, I also realize that people are equally prone to lying or exaggerating about being victimized, trolled, or harassed, because those kinds of harrowing stories generate buzz and sympathy. 

My gut tells me that plenty of feminists who _do_ actually receive insulting or threatening messages may _also_ have a tendency to play that up and exaggerate it, whether deliberately or no. 

But, two wrongs certainly don't make a right here.



> You know what anti-gamergate did though? They sent knives and syringes to prominent gamergate members in the mail.



Oh, I wouldn't doubt that, either. Both sides seem to have their share of crazies who've lost touch with reality.


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Everyone is so angry about who's ruining their games, while I'm just playing Splatoon having a great time.
Video games are a lot more fun when you're _playing them_ instead of spending time on gaming forums full of angry, insecure people. 

There's so much denial that gamers can be jerks, when all you have to do is look at the comments on female Link artwork on DeviantArt or simply mention how cool it would be to have more normal LGBT or X minority characters in games. 
Plenty of women don't use microphones because of the harasssment they get for daring to play a game online and young kids are targeted as victims of LOLPRANKS like bricking consoles by adults with nothing better to do.

Gamers can do great things like support indie developers and raise money for causes, but pretending that all gamers are saints who would never threaten or harass someone, despite doing it to each other? Come on, acknowledge the problems inside a community before attacking outsiders and blaming them for everything.


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## Artillery Spam (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Blackberry Polecat said:


> Plenty of women don't use microphones because of the harasssment they get for daring to play a game online and young kids are targeted as victims of LOLPRANKS like bricking consoles by adults with nothing better to do.



The only way that you'll be safe while using a gaming mic is if:

1) You're white
2) You're male
3) You're not a squeaker 
4) Your voice isn't too cringe worthy 

Mute-N-Shoot is the way to go.


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> The only way that you'll be safe while using a gaming mic is if:
> 
> 1) You're white
> 2) You're male
> ...



And that's an acceptable reality of the gaming community?


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## DarrylWolf (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Blackberry Polecat said:


> And that's an acceptable reality of the gaming community?



Unless, of course, you show up late to the party and you're not paying attention. In which case your name is legally changed to LEEEEEEROY JENKINS!


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If people who curse out others on the mic could be replaced by duck quacking sounds or something. That would be amazing. xD


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> There are so many fucked up things about anita. The main one being that she dont even like vidya games
> second one being its been proven false that gamergate attacked her
> anita is not relevant in the game commuity


She clearly seems to like some games, just because she hates a few like Doom doesn't mean she hates them all as a whole.



Volkodav said:


> Here's your daily dose of Anita stupidity
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But how is it ruining? Sure, she was misinformed but it's still only criticism and the only one who had the power to ruin it are the developers themselves, if they choose to listen or not.



Volkodav said:


> Gamergate doesn't send death threats. Anita faked it and it's been proven fake.


Global jewish conspiracy, they control the media.

White genocide.

9/11 was an inside job.

Muslims are taking over by shitting out babies.

Moon landing was fake.

The holocaust never happened.

Scrap that, the holocaust did happen and was committed by gays.


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## Hell_Charm (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm a bit of a feminist myself (the kind that things that women should be able to do anything a man can do, career wise, sports wise ...) but I do agree, what's wrong with most female characters?
Sure, there are characters with boobs like watermelons, but I don't care, they're video games, most of them are fictional anyways, they are meant to be an escape for people to their own, alternate getaway universe.
Honestly, I think some people are using feminism as an excuse for everything, what we set out to do, equal rights, has been almost entirely accomplished. These people like Anita just look for a way to find people who support her crazy ideas by using feminism as a base, the core of her idea might be ok, female characters should be equal to male ones but you know what, how many non-muscular protagonist male characters are out there ... Snow from FF13, the Prince in prince of persia, all male companions in dragon age ... you could call that objectifying as well.
But I think she's missing the point with her ideals.


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## Volkodav (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=9685aa72d5fe6dc198beecbce60612ff&oe=5584FD84

hahahahaha

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/610302629751558144
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/610271596675117056
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/610277027367661568
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/605134280050638848

she is a goldmine i swaer
in a pic of her with a unch of game cases (i assume ones she owns) there was fallout and gears of war
lmao


----------



## Kalmor (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre...s-expendable?p=5232117&viewfull=1#post5232117


----------



## Student (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> People who tell me "Oh, Gamergate never does that!" have never really been able to definitely prove that the "real" Gamergate doesn't do "that," and they've never been able to really explain what Gamergate actually _does _if it doesn't do "that."



This is what I believe is called the "No True GamerGater" fallacy...


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The internet nowadays in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOOqx5dcPI.


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## Traven V (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Where would the Amazing Atheist be without issues like this? Besides we are still coming out of a male dominated societies, feminists like this are a necessity it's not like anyone really listened beforehand.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Student said:


> This is what I believe is called the "No True GamerGater" fallacy...



it's called false-flagging

when /v/ was full of GG shit, there were people posting shit like "lets kill and rape zoe quinn" and said post would end up on her twitter approx 30 seconds after it was posted, conveniently leaving out the torrent of posts telling that person to fuck off, which was maybe a little bit suspicious

"fuck off zoe" was probably the single most used phrase in those threads

glad they've moved to their containment at 8chan though


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## Fallowfox (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> The internet nowadays in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOOqx5dcPI.



Oh my god *cringe*

But yeah, plenty of the web is like this.


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## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Student said:


> This is what I believe is called the "No True GamerGater" fallacy...



Ah-yup.

Really, I think the basic problem is that whether you're talking about geeks, gamers, or furries, you're typically talking about a group of people who are a) young (between the ages of about 12 and 30), b) overwhelmingly white, c) generally male,  d) mostly middle class, and e) socially retarded as hell.

So, my theory is that when people in these various social groups act like assholes, it's generally due to the fact that they possess the selfishness, impulsivity and short-sightedness of youth; the blinders of social privilege; and a general lack of social skills and social awareness due largely to the first two factors, plus being geeky.

If you live in a bubble that shelters you from frustrating or unusual experiences or people, you'll often continue to operate within a narrow, selfish, entitled frame of reference. When you do finally run up against people or events that frustrate or bother you, you're more likely to completely lose your tits. I think this explains why so many celebrities, ultra-rich tycoons, politicians and famous/successful people in general are often so buggo-bizarro. 

Changes and inconveniences are hard enough as it is for nice, well-intentioned, sane people to cope with, and particularly dramatic or sudden changes may cause many normally-nice-and-well-meaning people to suddenly become covetous, paranoid, immature, aggressive, defensive, and mean.  Some people become much meaner much sooner relative to others, and due to various factors related to their temperament, mindset, and personality. 

I tend to think that Gamergaters, the bad MRAs, and the creepers who harass cosplayers are typically entitled, privileged, usually-young folks who are resentful and freaked out about having to suddenly share resources and space with people who aren't just like them, and who are pissed about their needs not necessarily coming first. They're  pissed at women in particular because they're sad and frustrated about being repeatedly passed over or rejected, and they're angry that they can't crack "the dating code." 

A friend of mine constantly posted critiques of feminism and articles about the sadistic games women and feminists play with innocent men everything _until_ he found a girlfriend, and then all of those postings abruptly stopped. Hmmm....


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## ShioBear (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCExXie1XB4

refute this you twats


----------



## Student (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> it's called false-flagging
> 
> when /v/ was full of GG shit, there were people posting shit like "lets kill and rape zoe quinn" and said post would end up on her twitter approx 30 seconds after it was posted, conveniently leaving out the torrent of posts telling that person to fuck off, which was maybe a little bit suspicious
> 
> ...



Let me get this straight, just so I can understand for my own personal enrichment: You're calming that no _true_ gamer-gater behaves reproachfully, and that *all *problems with the "movement" are due to feminist agent-provocateurs sending threats to themselves?


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Student said:


> Let me get this straight, just so I can understand for my own personal enrichment: You're calming that no _true_ gamer-gater behaves reproachfully, and that *all *problems with the "movement" are due to feminist agent-provocateurs sending threats to themselves?



it's basically proven

even Brianna Wu posted nasty comments to herself _and forgot to sign out of her account_

one of the funniest things I had seen out of that fiasco


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## Sylox (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I still don't understand WTF Gamergate is about.


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## Student (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> it's basically proven
> 
> even Brianna Wu posted nasty comments to herself _and forgot to sign out of her account_
> 
> one of the funniest things I had seen out of that fiasco



Perhaps that is true! Maybe the critics do behave dishonestly. But does that necessarily imply that the reverse is true? That the intentions of *all *gamer-gaters is pure, and that none of them have ever done anything immoral, unethical, or dishonest? I don't think so...

I tend to believe people are earnest even if misinformed. Perhaps I'm just naive. But I'm sure if you were to go to a feminist forum and ask them, they would be able to unearth dozens of compelling and credible examples of their critics using the same dishonest tactics. He said, she said...

Even if that is actually the case, and that *one or both* sides uses deception, two wrongs still don't make a right. If anything the discussion would only be advanced by a heaping helping of civility and empathy from _both_ sides.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> I still don't understand WTF Gamergate is about.



some lardball sucked five dicks to get her multi-choice questionaire promoted as a groundbreaking indie game and giving it higher scores than other indie games 

this is nothing new (at all) because the indie scene has been rife with nepotism ever since it began, only this time the girl's boyfriend revealed proof of this, and things escalated from there. she and her beta boy brigade did some massive damage control by openly insulting their entire audience. whatever they hoped to achieve with that, I don't know.

it's dumb, but before GG left 4chan in peace they mass emailed Gawker Media's partners to complain about how GM was treating their audience, and many ads got pulled, costing them "seven figures" according to a leaked email or something, which was a right laugh.

and now Gawker also disobeyed a judge's orders to remove their Hulk Hogan sextape, and now Hulk Hogan is going to destroy gawker and save videogames forever and ever

the end



Student said:


> Perhaps that is true! Maybe the critics do behave  dishonestly. But does that necessarily imply that the reverse is true?  That the intentions of *all *gamer-gaters is pure, and that none of them have ever done anything immoral, unethical, or dishonest? I don't think so...
> 
> I tend to believe people are earnest even if misinformed. Perhaps I'm  just naive. But I'm sure if you were to a feminist forum and ask them,  they would be able to unearth dozens of compelling and credible examples  of their critics using the same dishonest tactics. He said, she said...
> 
> Even if that is actually the case, and that *one or both*  sides uses deception, two wrongs still don't make a right. If anything  the discussion would only be helped by a heaping helping of civility and  empathy from _both_ sides.



Gamergaters are annoying as hell, I don't really care about 'em. But false-flagging has been proven in multiple cases, other cases where it looked extremely suspect.


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## Student (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> some lardball sucked five dicks...



This is exactly the lack of empathy and incivility I'm talking about.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Student said:


> This is exactly the lack of empathy and incivility I'm talking about.



because I'm sure that the same media guys who tweet stuff like "Gamers are worse than ISIS and I have more respect for them than gamers" are the epitome of empathy and civility


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## Student (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I think its possible to take the moral high road and not be suckered in by other people's badgering. In the end, when all the dust has settled, history will smile upon you for it.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Student said:


> This is exactly the lack of empathy and incivility I'm talking about.



So what Schwimmwagen is talking about is actually a woman who wrote articles decrying cheating as a form of rape, but then cheated on her own boyfriend with 5 people, one of whom was married, in order to get good reviews about a game she had produced about depressive-episodes.

The Game, which has the catchy title 'Depression Quest' was made by Zoe Quinn. 

I'm sensing vandalism in the wikipedia article, though because it includes phrases like 'this is so f-*-*-ing far outside anything Iâ€™m aware of'.

I don't know why Schwimmwagen is calling her a lardball though; the photos which come up are very slim and attractive.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> So what Schwimmwagen is talking about is actually a woman who wrote articles decrying cheating as a form of rape, but then cheated on her own boyfriend with 5 people, one of whom was married, in order to get good reviews about a game she had produced about depressive-episodes.
> 
> The Game, which has the catchy title 'Depression Quest' was made by Zoe Quinn.



And apparently she holds herself up as a socially just individual but she allegedly "glassed" a transgender person and "messed up her face", words from a friend of that alleged person. Oh, and she did some kind of attack on a forum for depressed men. And she got a site shut down which was run by a wheelchair-bound 2ft tall man who depended on the site's ad revenue to uphold a living, simply because some users of the site were discussing the GamerGate mess there.

lovely woman



> I'm sensing vandalism in the wikipedia article, though because it includes phrases like 'this is so f-*-*-ing far outside anything Iâ€™m aware of'.



Anita and Zoe's articles are a total warzone, but I don't keep up on what exactly happened with that.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

For the record, I should probably state that Zoe Quinn claimed that the accusation that she had sex with the people who wrote her reviews was made by jealous people who can't accept women doing well. 

I'm not sure if she's denied having sex with the reviewers, though. I mean...If I was writing an article, or painting a picture and I found out that I'd slept with the very person who was reviewing it, I would inform the publication to have them change the reviewer.


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## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

With all the criticisms you could make and legitimate conspiracies you could uncover with regards to journalism and the news media today, I find it suspicious and telling that _so much energy_ has gone into unmasking Zoe Quinn and raving about Anita Sarkeesian. 

For supposedly caring so much about ethics in gaming journalism, Gamergaters really don't seem to take interest in ethical breaches that don't involve feminists, male feminist allies, or uppity bitch women--or if they do, they're doing a piss-poor job of conveying that to the world.

People doing "favors" for each other in exchange for positive reviews, votes, kickbacks, honorable mentions, or presidential pardons is as old as time, and yes, unethical as hell. But, Gamergaters seem to act like Zoe Quinn is the only person who's ever done this sort of thing, and that a biased review on Kotaku is on par with the Watergate scandal or covering up Agent Orange.

The sanest thing would've been for people to smell the drama and avoid Eron Gjoni and Zoe Quinn's little relationship meltdown at all costs. My impression of them is that they're both overly-self-impressed, self-absorbed hipster-geeks who use intellect and ideology to conceal their underlying immaturity and emotionality. 

If Gamergaters cared about game developers receiving under-the-table preferential treatment from reviewers and sites, there are better, smarter, more ethical ways of exposing that problem than just harassing and badmouthing the game developer who got the special perks. Really, I'd say your focus should be more on the corrupt journalist(s) who accepted the favors and bribes.

As it stands, _more_ people probably played Depression Quest and researched Zoe Quinn as a result of Gamergaters constantly wailing and gnashing their teeth about her!

In my opinion, if people really cared about ethics in gaming journalism, they'd be furiously writing articles and blogs about just how many damn news sites are owned by a very small cabal of mega-corporations who are very shrewd about promoting and spinning stories in a way that will get clicks, likes, and shares.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm not a 'gamergater' and I don't think my post amounts to harassment; I literally just looked this up and re-wrote it more...eloquently, because users were complaining about vitriolic language like 'lardball'.


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## Anarcho-Loser (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If feminism is ruining videogames then you're ruining these forums.

Of course they can't be ruined.

Neither gaming nor these forums were any good in the first place.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> Really, I'd say your focus should be more on the corrupt journalist(s) who accepted the favors and bribes.



But that's the problem. Anyone who even tries to be civil is already smeared, and immediately met with accusations of being a Misogynerd Terrorapist or whatever because maybe e.g. they think the storm journalists kicked up over _Hatred_ despite never playing the game was unjustified. GamerGate is used as a boogeyman. Because that game had a woman in the trailer being shot, so you must hate this game unless you're a nasty GooberGator


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## TheMetalVelocity (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't give a fuck about all these weird white people telling me I'm a horrible homophobic or sexist person for being a man and liking M-rated video games. Yeah, I don't agree with the stupidity of some gamergaters, but you can't justify staunch far-left lunatics policing the fuck out of people's creativity and morals. I am honestly getting fucking tired of these degenerates worming their way into every form of media and turning it into liberal propaganda. What I find funny about all these social justice advocates in general is that they can't stand up for themselves, but they have to make other people do their dirty work for them and create their little fucking hugboxes.


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## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's also true that people have started to use "Gamergate" as a kind of boogeyman or scare-word to ward off and dismiss all criticism. It's like how people on the opposite side of the fence use "SJW' to dismiss _their_ critics.

Basically, as people become more and more polarized, they're less and less tolerant of dissent or disagreement in any form, and much more likely to see anyone but fellow hardliners as "the enemy."

Both the feminist and gamer communities have failed to deal appropriately or proactively with their own "Uncle Franks" (to use Uncle Kage's term), and that just serves to erode their credibility further. People claim that they're _so very concerned_ about the bad eggs under their roof, but all the rest of us see is the _hardliners_ _and bad eggs_ harassing people into silence and compliance.


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## Astrium (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> I still don't understand WTF Gamergate is about.



>Zoe Quinn makes a game about depression.
>People's opinions are divided.
>Zoe's ex posts a rant after a bad breakup.
>4chan gets ahold of it.
>Shitstorm ensues.

That's pretty much the TL;DR version of it. People allege that Zoe slept with a bunch of game reviewers to get positive reviews for her game, because God forbid somebody who works in a completely subjective industry actually like something you don't. Long story short, the Internet briefly turned into a warzone.


----------



## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> The internet nowadays in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nOOqx5dcPI.



Even more, it's teenagers and college-aged students in a nutshell.

When they're not grousing about people not getting their gender or sexuality, they're grousing about their mom not seeing how deep My Chemical Romance is, or how super-tarded everyone around them is for not seeing that Anarchism/Communism/Objectivism/A Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ is the obvious truth and secret to existence, duh.

That vine gave me newfound respect for high school teachers, because they have to hear this shit all day long.


----------



## Lomberdia (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

We have to learn to understand and accept that one person's truth is truth to them. Accept everything and shit. We can't exclude people any longer. (TM) Hugbox 2015 "acceptance of all! united we do shit!" (c)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I dunno why the fuck anyone would believe a woman would actually have sex in exchange for positive game reviews, that's like something out of a bad cartoon. There are much better things that can be achieved with sex like, you know, money. Money that positive game reviews won't give said woman because THE GAME WAS FUCKING FREE.

You're also overly sensitive about what games media tells you, that and calling out bad behavior isn't bullying.

Fucking pussy-ass-bitches. You don't know what abuse or bullying even is, you sheltered nerds.

EDIT:
Maybe people also don't like you fuckers because of shit like this.

BUT OH NO POLYGON IS A SITE OF BULLIES BOO FUCKING HOO


----------



## Troj (Jun 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno why the fuck anyone would believe a woman would actually have sex in exchange for positive game reviews, that's like something out of a bad cartoon. There are much better things that can be achieved with sex like, you know, money. Money that positive game reviews won't give said woman because THE GAME WAS FUCKING FREE.



That's a good point. "Once I give a beejer to this one guy at Kotaku, _the world will be mine! Mu ha ha ha ha! LAUGH WITH ME, MINIONS!"_

Either Zoe Quinn thinks pathetically small, or people are projecting their idiocy and baggage onto her.


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

more from the Non gamer cunt anita
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds0Au7kfQa0


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Good god man, just let it go


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> >Zoe Quinn makes a game about depression.
> >People's opinions are divided.
> >Zoe's ex posts a rant after a bad breakup.
> >4chan gets ahold of it.
> ...



To be frank, I thought the ruckus was because she published articles claiming that infidelity was a form of rape, belittling the plight of rape victims.
Can you imagine how that comment would be received if it came from a man? 
'Oh you got raped? I can totally identify, I once caught my girlfriend snogging another man'.

If it's true that she cheated on her boyfriend, then I suppose that would add some level of hypocrisy, but everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room, really.


----------



## Kinuki (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> To be frank, I thought the ruckus was because she published articles



Nope, wrong. She's a woman who got uppity by being associated with gaming, so she got targeted by that woman-hating hate group Gamergate and flooded with death threats, online harassment, rape porn and dead dog shock pics on her Twitter feed. Everything else thrown around are pure lies and excuses by gaters.

GG is the equivalent of the Klan for gamers.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Gamergate is why the aliens won't talk to us...that and Twitter.

I have solved the Fermi Paradox!


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> (to use Uncle Kage's term),



Ew, Uncle Kage.


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kinuki said:


> Nope, wrong. She's a woman who got uppity by being associated with gaming, so she got targeted by that woman-hating hate group Gamergate and flooded with death threats, online harassment, rape porn and dead dog shock pics on her Twitter feed. Everything else thrown around are pure lies and excuses by gaters.
> 
> GG is the equivalent of the Klan for gamers.



lol that's a load of shit. she went on multiple sites under different made up user names and sent the threat to herself, she even got caught red handed sending herself rape threats because she forgot to logg out of the account. 
and those who sent threats for real were trolls, of coarse since shes a feminist its legitimate threats and not trolling. 
of coarse nobody looks at the real gamer gaters and only the black sheep.  cherry picking feminists

anita the liar does the same shit 
http://www.returnofkings.com/42602/did-anita-sarkeesian-fake-death-threats-against-herself

more proof she did the same thing.


----------



## Calemeyr (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Gamergate: beta males getting upset that their Japanese waifu games are being labeled sexist. And then they start a fake campaign from 4chan that should have been about games journalism, but then turned into gamers defending their waifus. And then people joined in who weren't sexist and defended the hashtag because they legit thought it was about games journalism and thought the SJW critics were being stupid. It's a whole clusterfuck, but it all traces back to gamers and their waifus.

Anita is whiny. She starts with good points, then ruins them and comes off as another tumblrite. Also she hates DOOM because she's a wimp. Not because of sexism. SJWs don't actually care about activism. They just want attention and pageviews. It's slacktivism at it's worst. Problem is, the betas then lump all feminism in with the SJWs. 

A lot of the people who seem to be vehemently against feminism are the same people who put moe avatars on their profiles. I want to see an animegate, which is started by people getting defensive of their lolis. Let's be honest, this is the objectification of children. Treating humans as if they were the cats in cute cat vids is fucking creepy. Yes I know they are cartoons.

So in short: You're all wrong and you all suck.

@Shiobear: You're breaking your own rule in your sig, mate.


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Calemeyr said:


> Gamergate: beta males getting upset that their Japanese waifu games are being labeled sexist. And then they start a fake campaign from 4chan that should have been about games journalism, but then turned into gamers defending their waifus. And then people joined in who weren't sexist and defended the hashtag because they legit thought it was about games journalism and thought the SJW critics were being stupid. It's a whole clusterfuck, but it all traces back to gamers and their waifus.  Anita is whiny. She starts with good points, then ruins them and comes off as another tumblrite. Also she hates DOOM because she's a wimp. Not because of sexism. SJWs don't actually care about activism. They just want attention and pageviews. It's slacktivism at it's worst. Problem is, the betas then lump all feminism in with the SJWs.   A lot of the people who seem to be vehemently against feminism are the same people who put moe avatars on their profiles. I want to see an animegate, which is started by people getting defensive of their lolis. Let's be honest, this is the objectification of children. Treating humans as if they were the cats in cute cat vids is fucking creepy. Yes I know they are cartoons.  So in short: You're all wrong and you all suck.  @Shiobear: You're breaking your own rule in your sig, mate.


  gonna make any real point's there mate? or are you just going to blame shit on neckbeardy waifu fuckers and dismiss it all


----------



## Astrium (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> anita the liar does the same shit
> http://www.returnofkings.com/42602/did-anita-sarkeesian-fake-death-threats-against-herself



"5 Reasons Not To Have A Breadwinner Wife".
"4 Reasons Why Leftists Are Clinically Insane".
"How Virtual Reality Could Destroy Western Society".

What the fuck even is this site?


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> "5 Reasons Not To Have A Breadwinner Wife". "4 Reasons Why Leftists Are Clinically Insane". "How Virtual Reality Could Destroy Western Society".  What the fuck even is this site?


 if you would like i can find the same screen shots elsewhere. its not about the site its abut the evidence.


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## Calemeyr (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> gonna make any real point's there mate? or are you just going to blame shit on neckbeardy waifu fuckers and dismiss it all


See, I know where you're going with this. You want to argue and shoot down everything everyone has to say. The only "real points" you'll accept are ones that support your position. You're not here for a debate. You're here to make yourself feel good. You're using tumblr SJW morons as living strawmen to hate on feminism. 

As long as we have politicians keep interfering in women's reproductive rights, and as long as women are paid less on average than men, feminism is needed. But so are things like custody and child support reform. That does hurt the man. But men claiming they are just as oppresssed sounds like christians claiming persecution at christmas time, or last friday after the ruling.

Anyway, gamergate was a 4chan movement masquerading as a games ethic movement. We do need an ethics movement. But we don't need a tumblr-otaku war to get in the way.

Also, you said neckbeard, not me. I bet you think the friendzone is real, too. Please tell me you don't.

Also, neckbeardy waifu fuckers are the prime target audience of creepy sex games.

Whatever someone's stance in this debate, the rape and death threats are not justified. Sure the SJWs can be scummy. They don't deserve to be harrassed, though. And neither do the people wanting to talk about gaming journalism ethics.

This whole thing is a proxy war for the "culture wars" going on. If people feel like shit from women's rights, they're talking to the wrong activists. Those are radicals.


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Calemeyr said:


> See, I know where you're going with this. You want to argue and shoot down everything everyone has to say. The only "real points" you'll accept are ones that support your position. You're not here for a debate. You're here to make yourself feel good. You're using tumblr SJW morons as living strawmen to hate on feminism.   As long as we have politicians keep interfering in women's reproductive rights, ans as long as women are paid less on average than men, feminism is needed. But so are things like custody and child support reform. That does hurt the man. But men claiming they are just as oppresssed sounds like christians claiming persecution at christmas time, or last friday after the ruling.  Anyway, gamergate was a 4chan movement masquerading as a games ethic movement. We do need an ethics movement. But we don't need a tumblr-otaku war to get in the way.  Also, you said neckbeard, not me. I bet you think the friendzone is real, too. Please tell me you don't.


  it looks like your shooting down my points and doing the very thing you say i am. whilst insulting me. what does friend zone nonsense have to do with this? women arent paid less on average. the wage gap is a myth, were not even talking about men claiming they are oppressed your bringing up bullshit to counteract what i am trying to say. you dont make any valid point or provide any logical information on the subject at hand. feminism isnt needed in north america  there is no wage gap women rent oppressed, women are making more on average than men do these days but you dont see them complaining. modern feminism want's power over men not equality. are you going to provide a proper rebuttal or will you simply resort to insults?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kinuki said:


> Nope, wrong. She's a woman who got uppity by being associated with gaming, so she got targeted by that woman-hating hate group Gamergate and flooded with death threats, online harassment, rape porn and dead dog shock pics on her Twitter feed. Everything else thrown around are pure lies and excuses by gaters.
> 
> GG is the equivalent of the Klan for gamers.



Nah, I'm not convinced that's all true.


----------



## Calemeyr (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> it looks like your shooting down my points and doing the very thing you say i am. whilst insulting me. what does friend zone nonsense have to do with this? women arent paid less on average. the wage gap is a myth, were not even talking about men claiming they are oppressed your bringing up bullshit to counteract what i am trying to say. you dont make any valid point or provide any logical information on the subject at hand. feminism isnt needed in north america  there is no wage gap women rent oppressed, women are making more on average than men do these days but you dont see them complaining. modern feminism want's power over men not equality. are you going to provide a proper rebuttal or will you simply resort to insults?


Please capitalize your responses. I'm typing on a phone and I use proper grammar. There's no excuse for you not to do so, too. Also power over men? You make me laugh. Next you'll tell me there's a gay agenda trying to get after christians, and modern civil rights is designed to beat down white people.

And why are you looking for evidence of your points in places that promote creepy sexism? Wouldn't it be less biased to look for a third party source?


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## Fallowfox (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

On that subject can someone answer a curiosity I've long held; if it were acceptable to pay women substantially less for the same work, would not a company with a female-only hiring policy make huge savings?


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Calemeyr said:


> Please capitalize your responses. I'm typing on a phone and I use proper grammar. There's no excuse for you not to do so, too. Also power over men? You make me laugh. Next you'll tell me there's a gay agenda trying to get after christians, and modern civil rights is designed to beat down white people.  And why are you looking for evidence of your points in places that promote creepy sexism? Wouldn't it be less biased to look for a third party source?


  see now i know your full of shit you picking apart my grammar?  you feminists automatically label any evidence as sexism. it doesn't matter where it comes from because if your just going to try and discredit the source on false sexism claims. piss off. people like you can put their fingers in their ears and sing songs till the point has been made and pretend it never existed. your not worth anyone's time, you and your friends can stroke each others egos till the cows come home see if i care what some blind ass on the internet thinks.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> see now i know your full of shit you picking apart my grammar?  you feminists automatically label any evidence as sexism. it doesn't matter where it comes from because if your just going to try and discredit the source on false sexism claims. piss off. people like you can put their fingers in their ears and sing songs till the point has been made and pretend it never existed. your not worth anyone's time, you and your friends can stroke each others egos till the cows come home see if i care what some blind ass on the internet thinks.



I think its time someone cooled down a bit
https://memyselfandela.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/funniest-cat-gifs-cat-sit-right-here.gif?w=590


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## ShioBear (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> I think its time someone cooled down a bit https://memyselfandela.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/funniest-cat-gifs-cat-sit-right-here.gif?w=590


  *sigh* thanks hun >_>  ima rest my fingers for a while


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## Calemeyr (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> see now i know your full of shit you picking apart my grammar?  you feminists automatically label any evidence as sexism. it doesn't matter where it comes from because if your just going to try and discredit the source on false sexism claims. piss off. people like you can put their fingers in their ears and sing songs till the point has been made and pretend it never existed. your not worth anyone's time, you and your friends can stroke each others egos till the cows come home see if i care what some blind ass on the internet thinks.


Did I say I was a feminist anywhere, either? Is this a "you're either with me or against me" thing? Also, what do you mean by "blind ass"? Aren't all asses blind? I don't think I have eyes on my butt, and even if I did, they'd be covered by pants.

You seem quite enraged. Perhaps you should take some time off the internet to cool off.


----------



## Sylox (Jun 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I love watching MRAs, feminists and others argue on here. 

Dance monkeys, dance for your king!!!! *noms on popcorn*


----------



## Lomberdia (Jun 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> On that subject can someone answer a curiosity I've long held; if it were acceptable to pay women substantially less for the same work, would not a company with a female-only hiring policy make huge savings?


Because its sexist. How dare companies make savings by paying women less. How dare they try to make a female only hiring policy to make even more savings. Outrage! :V

That actually sounds like a very good business move...IF the whole pay gap thing was still an actual issue. It's really not now-a-days. People who say it is just want stuff to whine about since the playing field is more or less equal now. If I had to hire someone, I would hire whoever would get me the most work per dollar with the least amount of additional stress. Also depended on the type of work I needed.

Thinking about the business around me I notice a few things which I think are universal really;
-If it's desk work and they will actively deal with the public? Hire a pretty female.  
-Not heavily physical and still will be dealing with the public on a limited basis? Hire a worker female or male. looks don't matter too much. 
-Physical at all? Hire a male. 

Best jobs are supervisors. I don't see them ever doing any heavy labor unless it was on a clipboard and consisted of checking boxes. Man, I wanna be a supervisor and get paid big money!


----------



## Calemeyr (Jun 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ok, I actually took the time to research some of this stuff and yes, the pay gap may be dissappearing. More women are going into STEM fields and other traditionally male-dominated occupations. Hell, we may even have a female president. The big issues are when congress wants to get inside the bedroom and tell what a woman's reproductive rights are. Also treatment by the media. But attitudes are changing, though the ones expressed in this thread are what is holding us back.

So yes, a lot has been done today. But in other countries, like Japan for instance, women are still treated poorly. And in places like Saudi Arabia...well, that whole country is a shithole so it's to be expected.

As for gaming, a lot of the sexism complaints can really be traced to Japanese games. Feminism never really took off there (not today's "feminism" but yesterday's feminism), and Japanese games are typically targeted toward the creepy nerd crowd. I mean, this is the same country that makes H-games with children. So despite Anita's whining, the most egregions examples of video game sexism (not just the nanoaggression oops not-even a-thing things) won't change. 

Now the gamers...yeah, gamers and geeks need to police their crowds. "Fake geek girls", "Friendzone", and "nice guys" are all BS. These creeps are the people who hit on cosplayers and then complain about not having a GF. Many (but nobciously not all) nerds are creepy toward women--perhaps because they feel shunned by society, so they must treat others like shit to make themselves feel better? I don't know. But it needs to stop.


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## Kellie Gator (Jun 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

How do you solve the gamer gate problem? With video games.



ShioBear said:


> more from the Non gamer cunt anita
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds0Au7kfQa0


What other criteria are there aside from "plays video games"? "Gamer" is really just an adjective as far as the english language is concerned.



ShioBear said:


> lol that's a load of shit. she went on multiple sites under different made up user names and sent the threat to herself, she even got caught red handed sending herself rape threats because she forgot to logg out of the account.
> and those who sent threats for real were trolls, of coarse since shes a feminist its legitimate threats and not trolling.
> of coarse nobody looks at the real gamer gaters and only the black sheep.  cherry picking feminists
> 
> ...


Holocaust? MORE LIKE HOLOHOAX LOL

LOVE YOUR FOLKS, STOP WHITE GENOCIDE


----------



## Fallowfox (Jun 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Calemeyr said:


> Ok, I actually took the time to research some of this stuff and yes, the pay gap may be dissappearing. More women are going into STEM fields and other traditionally male-dominated occupations. Hell, we may even have a female president. The big issues are when congress wants to get inside the bedroom and tell what a woman's reproductive rights are. Also treatment by the media. But attitudes are changing, though the ones expressed in this thread are what is holding us back.
> 
> So yes, a lot has been done today. But in other countries, like Japan for instance, women are still treated poorly. And in places like Saudi Arabia...well, that whole country is a shithole so it's to be expected.
> 
> ...



Do you think that you're going to sway anybody's position by telling them that they only disagree with you because their life is worthless?


----------



## Calemeyr (Jun 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Do you think that you're going to sway anybody's position by telling them that they only disagree with you because their life is worthless?


Yeah that was bad. I'm sorry. What I was getting at is some people who feel picked on like to pick on others to make themselves feel better. I got carried away with the vitriol. I shouldn't be insulting people anyway, I'm complaining about harassment after all.


----------



## ShioBear (Jun 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> What other criteria are there aside from "plays video games"? "Gamer" is really just an adjective as far as the english language is concerned.   Holocaust? MORE LIKE HOLOHOAX LOL  LOVE YOUR FOLKS, STOP WHITE GENOCIDE


  okay for your information she has stated many times that she hates games,  before jumping on the bandwagon as a reason to fight her invisible misogyny.  and really? cmon kellie you cant discount  valid points by rambling nonsense.  saying something cray cray doesn't automatically discount my point :/


----------



## Sylox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This thread has turned to shit


----------



## Inpw (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't get modern world feminists nor the opposing team. It's all a bunch of slacktivists bitching online about crap anyways and to make matters worse, they actually make money with this rubbish. If you want to really be part of something and put something at risk, do it in a place where misogyny actually happens, like some religions and the countries still upholding laws written in their fanfics.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> okay for your information she has stated many times that she hates games,  before jumping on the bandwagon as a reason to fight her invisible misogyny.  and really? cmon kellie you cant discount  valid points by rambling nonsense.  saying something cray cray doesn't automatically discount my point :/


She said one time she wasn't a fan, that doesn't mean it's a constant, she might've changed her position and like video games more than before, and that doesn't make her criticism invalid.

She's entitled to some goddamn freedom of speech and opinion and I couldn't give less of a fuck that she blasted my most hyped video game of this year's E3 because I'm an adult and perfectly fine with someone thinking differently than me.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> She said one time she wasn't a fan, that doesn't mean it's a constant, she might've changed her position and like video games more than before, and that doesn't make her criticism invalid.
> 
> She's entitled to some goddamn freedom of speech and opinion and I couldn't give less of a fuck that she blasted my most hyped video game of this year's E3 because I'm an adult and perfectly fine with someone thinking differently than me.



End of the day I still don't like her, I still think the money she's gotten from kickstarter and such was way OTT and I haven't really see her do much with it either, but she's entitled to her opinions, I just don't like 90% of the things she and her cohorts at feminist frequency come out with but she is entitled to her opinion none the less and I respect her for not backing down, but to my world of games she's irrelevant, she isn't going to cause shaking waves and change the entire industry, they'd never cater their whims to one person or group, though some people do blow it way out of proportion and give her way more attention than she realistically deserves.


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## Sylox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

And this is what society is worried about; a clap-trap Jezebel who slept her way to a favorable review. Forget anything else that's fucked up with the world, THIS is what the kids are worried about.


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## Astrium (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> who slept her way to a favorable review.



I still don't believe that happened.


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## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I still don't believe that happened.



Something that's so unbelievable turning out to be the truth?, stranger things have happened but the whole idea of that particular scenario happening just seems way too far-fetched. I mean I know the "Casting Couch" thing is a thing but its hard to believe there is a gaming equivalent.


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## Astrium (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Something that's so unbelievable turning out to be the truth?, stranger things have happened but the whole idea of that particular scenario happening just seems way too far-fetched. I mean I know the "Casting Couch" thing is a thing but its hard to believe there is a gaming equivalent.



Actually, the Casting Couch thing you see in porn is staged. It would be fuckloads of illegal to do it for real.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Actually, the Casting Couch thing you see in porn is staged. It would be fuckloads of illegal to do it for real.



The things human's in this society get away with though, it wouldn't be that surprising


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I still don't believe that happened.


Neither do I but even if it was true I frankly doubt it's worth any outrage when the game in question was for free. If it was a $60 purchase that'd be different.

I think some gamers just really hate the idea of a woman having sex with someone else than them. ;3


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## Nikolinni (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> And this is what society is worried about; a clap-trap Jezebel who slept her way to a favorable review. Forget anything else that's fucked up with the world, THIS is what the kids are worried about.



I wasn't aware that GamerGate was still concerned with Quinn. I thought they moved on to doing battle against the evil SJWs. Instead of, y'know, doing battle against the video game journalists that're selling out for good reviews and content. Nah, we gotta stop Anita from ruining Mirror's Edge 2 first apparently.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm just worried about more and more leftists censoring people.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I'm just worried about more and more leftists censoring people.


I'm pretty sure no one's been censored and as for game developers they still have the right to choose wether to accept criticism or not. Someone can complain a game is racist and sexist and the developer doesn't have to do a goddamn thing about it, change.org petitions be damned.

Developers are still in power and call the shots, that's the thing. GGers and similar-minded people don't realize that.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm pretty sure no one's been censored and as for game developers they still have the right to choose wether to accept criticism or not. Someone can complain a game is racist and sexist and the developer doesn't have to do a goddamn thing about it, change.org petitions be damned.
> 
> Developers are still in power and call the shots, that's the thing. GGers and similar-minded people don't realize that.


 Except for the fact that they can get sued if they don't cave in to the demands.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> She said one time she wasn't a fan, that doesn't mean it's a constant, she might've changed her position and like video games more than before, and that doesn't make her criticism invalid.  She's entitled to some goddamn freedom of speech and opinion and I couldn't give less of a fuck that she blasted my most hyped video game of this year's E3 because I'm an adult and perfectly fine with someone thinking differently than me.


  sure and racists are entitled to say they hate black people,  and religious people are entitled to anti gay hate speech. doesnt make it right.  her bullshit reasoning is nobody should be allowed to play violent games, nothing should have boob's and everything involving a male lead is sexist.  yeah she can have her opinion but when it affects the real world its time to stop the bullshit.  shes full of shit and a liar.  shes trying to force developers to change the games others like. why should anyone sacrifice artistic expression for a crazy feminazi cunts twisted opinion. shes a liar she has stated multiple times that she has been a gamer her whole life but in reality until recently jumping on the gaming wagon as a reason to fight her invisible misogyny, she has stated she never liked games. she hated games, why should anyone have to put up with someone who doesn't even truly share the love of gaming trying to change the games they don't even want to play so others cant enjoy what they love anymore. sad fact is she is no longer just an opinion, she has power, and is damaging gaming and the perception of gaming.  now back up your shit with something other than gay nazi jews are taking over, you sound like a little girl.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I'm just worried about more and more leftists censoring people.



Most of us pay far too little attention to efforts, from the political left, to distort and censor ideas that they don't agree with, because we don't like the idea that people who share similar political views to us can be nasty people too. 

For instance, my views would probably be described as left. I was sitting at dinner discussing the outcome of the British Election with some English students, when one woman confessed that she had told her friend that she was 'morally disgusted' with her for voting for a different party than she did. The rest of the students concurred that it was acceptable to try to guilt-trip your friends into voting for the 'correct' party instead of trying to reason with them. It doesn't matter why they vote for the 'correct' party, just that they do. 

I became very unpopular at that table when I said I couldn't agree with that.


----------



## Calemeyr (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't even know what leftist means anymore thanks to the tea party. To them, leftist means anything left of them. Which is most of the political spectrum.

If you mean true leftists, they mostly stick to Tumblr and Northern California/Seattle where they subsist off raw organic veggie wraps and vaccine denialism. That and unions. And unions are a whole other debate. I am personally unsure about unions.

What I don't get is why some of the people in this thread and on twitter and wherever get so enraged by Anita. It's not like she's preventing you from playing the games you like. Just ignore her and stop being fanboys. She's just trolling so she can get ad revenue from people who hate her yet keep watching her vids so they can further "hate" her. Stop watching it then! You're making her money!

What gamergate and geek culture in general has shown time and time again is that it's often not the medium that's sexist, it's the people that consume it. When the medium is blatantly sexist, it's, well, often erotic anime or a Japanese game like DoA. And there's nothing anyone can do to change that since that stuff is made by and for otaku.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> sure and racists are entitled to say they hate black people, and religious people are entitled to anti gay hate speech



THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING KILL ALL NIGGERS AND "this game perpetuates some harmful ideas about women".



ShioBear said:


> her bullshit reasoning is nobody should be allowed to play violent games


No, it isn't.



ShioBear said:


> nothing should have boob's and everything involving a male lead is sexist


No, it isn't.



ShioBear said:


> but when it affects the real world


No, it doesn't.


ShioBear said:


> shes trying to force developers to change the games others like.


No, she isn't.



ShioBear said:


> she has stated she never liked games.


No she hasn't. She did an interview where she said the that the Nintendo Wii and other things made her a fan of video games like she was as a kid, but that she doesn't call herself "gamer" because people who use that label are bunch of sociopathic sperglords WHO NEED TO FUCKING GO OUTSIDE AND LEARN HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE.



ShioBear said:


> she is no longer just an opinion, she has power


No, she doesn't. Developers are free to do as they want with the games they make. No one has to listen to her. Jack Thompson had more power because he was using the force of law, all Anita Sarkeesian is doing is... talking. Developers choose for themselves and it's proven to be profitable to have more diversity in games. That's basic economics, not her fault in the slightest.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Except for the fact that they can get sued if they don't cave in to the demands.



How?


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> No she hasn't. She did an interview where she said the that the Nintendo Wii and other things made her a fan of video games like she was as a kid, but that she doesn't call herself "gamer" because people who use that label are bunch of sociopathic sperglords WHO NEED TO FUCKING GO OUTSIDE AND LEARN HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE.




Hey Kellie I like you, but don't go painting all gamers with the same brush, you are getting far too high strung about this. 

And Shio you also need to calm down as well, you both locking heads like this is not going to help anyone or take this thread anywhere other than to the pit of locked and dead threads.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING KILL ALL NIGGERS AND "this game perpetuates some harmful ideas about women".   No, it isn't.   No, it isn't.   No, it doesn't.  No, she isn't.   No she hasn't. She did an interview where she said the that the Nintendo Wii and other things made her a fan of video games like she was as a kid, but that she doesn't call herself "gamer" because people who use that label are bunch of sociopathic sperglords WHO NEED TO FUCKING GO OUTSIDE AND LEARN HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE.   No, she doesn't. Developers are free to do as they want with the games they make. No one has to listen to her. Jack Thompson had more power because he was using the force of law, all Anita Sarkeesian is doing is... talking. Developers choose for themselves and it's proven to be profitable to have more diversity in games. That's basic economics, not her fault in the slightest.


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRSaLZidWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF8su7GTGvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6flKG51iWw  proof she doesnt like games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afgtd8ZsXzI  of coarse i could expect anymore from a feminist than a bunch of no your wrong because i said so's


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If only Anita had explained that she just wanted to sell some more diverse games to the sperglords as clearly as you have, Kellie, then I don't think there would have ever been a problem. :V


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Hey Kellie I like you, but don't go painting all gamers with the same brush, you are getting far too high strung about this.



Can I ask a question? When did gamer become a serious term? Like one that meant something? Like when a person says they are a feminist or a men's rights activist or hell, even a christian or an anarchist...that has a significant meaning behind it. 

Gamers are just...people who play games. In that sense, almost everyone since 1985 is a gamer in the 1st world. So why do gamers need to be defended alllllllll the time? Ain't we all gamers? Or have been at one time? 

It always looks so bizarre to me when people pull the "Not All Gamers" card.


----------



## Kosdu (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm staying out of the brunt of this thread and going back to the OP:

Feminism is a very good thing that is very relevant in todays society and will be until men and women are treated equally in all aspects of life.

By getting caught up with a few idiots is like saying a really kinky gay guys invalidate LGBT rights, or one thuggish young black man invalidates civil rights. 

Shit like this is what I see in every single debate on here, people blindly attacking an idea or group of people for a few people who claim it. It's stupid, it's really stupid and I've seen it here mannnnny times.

Time for some folks to grow up.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Can I ask a question? When did gamer become a serious term? Like one that meant something? Like when a person says they are a feminist or a men's rights activist or hell, even a christian or an anarchist...that has a significant meaning behind it.
> 
> Gamers are just...people who play games. In that sense, almost everyone since 1985 is a gamer in the 1st world. So why do gamers need to be defended alllllllll the time? Ain't we all gamers? Or have been at one time?
> 
> It always looks so bizarre to me when people pull the "Not All Gamers" card.



Oh I don't see it as a serious term, I don't specifically label myself that way but I am a pretty big gamer, and gaming is a big part of my life that's all. Don't really like being called a spherglord because I really enjoy video games :>


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Oh I don't' see it as a serious term I don't specifically label myself that way but I am a pretty big gamer, and gaming is a big part of my life that's all. Don't really like being called a spherglord because I really enjoy video games :>



Nobody would think that of a teddybear. <3

Anywho, back to your regularly scheduled gamergate old news revisited shit, FAF.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/ the wage gap is a myth  and in North america women are treated better than men, they get scholarships just for being women, women are wanted more in the workplace so its harder for men to get work these days. male rape victims are swept under the rug. when a ship is sinking, women a children first. men tend to pay for the whole date, open the door for the woman, men are expected to pay for all most everything. a woman can marry a man, do nothing during the whole marriage then divorce him and take half his shit for no reason. women are more than equal. im not even a man, im genderqueer but sadly i was born a man and have to deal with this shit.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arman-shake-gives-preferential-treatment.html we dont need feminism its no longer a  "good thing"


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Could you find an alternative source to the daily mail, shiobear? In England the newspaper is regarded as having a strong political bias, and is often in disrepute. 

On the subject of men paying for everything, when I had a girlfriend she insisted on paying half. The last time I fooled around with a woman, and we went to have breakfast in the morning, I paid for the meal because she didn't have her wallet with her. She mailed the cash she owed to me; I never even asked about it.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Could you find an alternative source to the daily mail, shiobear? In England the newspaper is regarded as having a strong political bias, and is often in disrepute.   On the subject of men paying for everything, when I had a girlfriend she insisted on paying half. The last time I fooled around with a woman, and we went to have breakfast in the morning, I paid for the meal because she didn't have her wallet with her. She mailed the cash she owed to me; I never even asked about it.


  you just happened to find and exceptional human being to date. edit: uhhg clay i know your watching this shit come back soon there arent to many rational humans left in this hole


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> you just happened to find and exceptional human being to date. edit: uhhg clay i know your watching this shit come back soon there arent to many rational humans left in this hole



 I need them all for this one.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Hey Kellie I like you, but don't go painting all gamers with the same brush, you are getting far too high strung about this.


I am tired of letting misogyny and a war on opinions happen without anyone calling it out, and I am tired of people without a lack of social skills not getting disciplined into behaving properly.



ShioBear said:


> uhhg clay i know your watching this shit come back soon there arent to many rational humans left in this hole


Should've been permabanned for never being able to shut up about women and muslims.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I am tired of letting misogyny and a war on opinions happen without anyone calling it out, and I am tired of people without a lack of social skills not getting disciplined into behaving properly.   Should've been permabanned for never being able to shut up about women and muslims.


 lol misogyny   your the one with a lack of social skills   people are calling you out


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I am tired of letting misogyny and a war on opinions happen without anyone calling it out, and I am tired of people without a lack of social skills not getting disciplined into behaving properly.
> 
> 
> Should've been permabanned for never being able to shut up about women and muslims.




>> accuses people who disagree with him of being sperglords and beta-males

> complains that there is a war on opinions.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol misogyny   your the one with a lack of social skills   people are calling you out


Misogyny is a real thing, I dunno what the bloody hell that has to do with social skills.



Fallowfox said:


> >> accuses people who disagree with him of being sperglords and beta-males
> 
> > complains that there is a war on opinions.


I'm not calling people who disagree sperglords, I'm calling people who think it's okay to harass people and send them death treats and get their panties in a twist because a woman said something about a video game "sperglords". If people who who would disagree with me were sperglords then Anita Sarkeesian and Jonathan McIntosh would both be spergs, too.

And who the fuck cares if Anita likes or hates video games or if she's wrong, SHE'S NOT A THREAT.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I dunno Kellie, Youtubers are becoming the new celebrities. 

And that comes with all the strange obsessions and feeling that they personally affect you too. (Like with how a lot of ppl hate Pewdewpie even though he's just some guy with a camera.)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I dunno Kellie, Youtubers are becoming the new celebrities.
> 
> And that comes with all the strange obsessions and feeling that they personally affect you too. (Like with how a lot of ppl hate Pewdewpie even though he's just some guy with a camera.)


But at the end of the day what Anita does is a subjective cultural analysis that when you break it down is just an opinion, and while I don't consider all opinions to be of equal value ("I hate niggers" or "muslims are inherently evil and rapists" are not acceptable opinions) what she has to say about video games isn't exactly the same kind of hate speech as angry fanboys outraged that Mass Effect 3 had gay relationships. She has 99% of the time been calm, civil and never called for a single video game to be censored and banned.

She might affect some people, but more often than not it's a conscious choice and no decisions a video game developer ever does will be her fault, it will be the developer's fault for choosing to do what Anita has suggested.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> what she has to say about video games isn't exactly the same kind of hate speech as angry fanboys outraged that Mass Effect 3 had gay relationships.



Did they really? XD

I don't get that sorta homophobia. It's so 90's. It's like how some people are afraid of an erect penis because "it's aggressive". Maybe it's some deep rooted fear that they'll not like their big titted ladies anymore. Which kinda goes along with my "most people are bisexual but fear their homosexual urges" theory.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Misogyny is a real thing, I dunno what the bloody hell that has to do with social skills.
> 
> 
> I'm not calling people who disagree sperglords, I'm calling people who think it's okay to harass people and send them death treats and get their panties in a twist because a woman said something about a video game "sperglords". If people who who would disagree with me were sperglords then Anita Sarkeesian and Jonathan McIntosh would both be spergs, too.
> ...



You clearly do care; you've made loaaaaads of posts about this subject. 

Or maybe everybody in this discussion doesn't care, and they're all just posting to waste each others' time? Who knows.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Did they really? XD
> 
> I don't get that sorta homophobia. It's so 90's. It's like how some people are afraid of an erect penis because "it's aggressive". Maybe it's some deep rooted fear that they'll not like their big titted ladies anymore. Which kinda goes along with my "most people are bisexual but fear their homosexual urges" theory.


Oh, you don't know gamers well, my friend. ;3

An unfortunate number of gamers have a big problem with any kind of positivity regarding sexual orientation, gender (identity) and race. A game journalist had to quit twitter for pointing out that The Wither III doesn't have a single person of color in it.



Fallowfox said:


> You clearly do care; you've made loaaaaads of posts about this subject.


I don't care what Anita thinks, I just have a low tolerance for bigotry and people leading a hate campaign against a woman who's simply offering criticism and analysis, because I LIKE my criticism and analysis, I want people to be able to talk about more aspects of video games than simply how many hours it takes to beat it or how many frames per second it runs in. :/

Video games are interesting, I like having the kind of discussion that Anita's bringing up, so I don't take kindly to people shit-talking her. Even if I disagree with her on Doom.


----------



## Taikugemu (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So, how's she ruining the gaming industry? I've been through her twitter and didn't see anything really bad.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You want to know what I think? 


That I've been playing games on and off here and there, and if it wasn't for the people bitching and complaining about this shit, I wouldn't have noticed a single goddamn thing about the issue. 


I think that's telling of how "terrible" of an ordeal this has been.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> You want to know what I think?
> 
> 
> That I've been playing games on and off here and there, and if it wasn't for the people bitching and complaining about this shit, I wouldn't have noticed a single goddamn thing about the issue.
> ...



Thank you! 

This is what I mentioned earlier in this thread...or maybe it was another thread on this topic. I don't know, they're fucking blending together. The gaming community is so full of people who do nothing but bitch nowadays instead of actually fucking gaming.

I mean for fuck's sake, these people in this thread who say they don't want Anita Sarkeesian "poisoning the gaming community" and want her to disappear, don't seem to realize that by making threads like this and talking about her CONSTANTLY, and fucking linking to videos of  her's, just gives her more attention which then makes them bitch even more.

Do you people understand the cycle that you're putting yourself's in? Do you see it? Do I need to make some kind of picture for you so you can see it?!

And for the people who are trying to change their minds in this thread? Just stop, there's no point to it and you ended going crazy just like them.

And one last thing. For all the gamers out there who like to bitch, why not bitch about something that's actually poisoning the gaming community and the industry like overpriced DLC and microtransactions. That's something I can gladly bitch with you about.


----------



## Eggdodger (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> When someone comes in to destroy your community youre gonna take out the threat
> 
> 
> I found it funny how she complained about how she loved fallout 4s crafting system but "wish it focused less on making things to kill"
> ...



Don't shit-talk Animal Crossing

Even if female characters couldn't wear shorts until the most recent one
(I personally was delighted to discover I could wear dresses as a male character)


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> (I personally was delighted to discover I could wear dresses as a male character)


 WHAT! no way really? omg omg omg kkkkkk what one!? must buy!


----------



## Shadow Jaeger (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> (I personally was delighted to discover I could wear dresses as a male character)



Your going to love tri force heroes then...


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> Don't shit-talk Animal Crossing
> 
> Even if female characters couldn't wear shorts until the most recent one
> (I personally was delighted to discover I could wear dresses as a male character)



For those of you that don't know, Egg has a really beautiful village.


----------



## Shadow Jaeger (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I should really buy that game again....it was really fun to play as a kid.
Guess il go buy it sometime soon.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

im still playing it on gamecube


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I've not played my copy on 3DS for ages, luckily I got that bill that stops weeds growing but still.....I may just start fresh xD but still need to beat Persona Q first


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm kinda scared to turn on my New Leaf game. I've ignored it for a few months...I bet all my flowers are dead.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I'm kinda scared to turn on my New Leaf game. I've ignored it for a few months...I bet all my flowers are dead.



Don't take the risk Butters, it will be too heartbreaking! and they will scream at you saying "YOU NEVER VISIT ME!"


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Oh, you don't know gamers well, my friend. ;3
> 
> An unfortunate number of gamers have a big problem with any kind of positivity regarding sexual orientation, gender (identity) and race. A game journalist had to quit twitter for pointing out that The Wither III doesn't have a single person of color in it.
> 
> ...



So disagreeing with someone, or thinking that they've been dishonest or have ulterior motives, doesn't automatically make someone a bigot. I'm suspicious that you've read a lot of stories which say 'person x holds a nasty view' and concluded that _anybody_ who isn't 'on your side' must also hold all sorts of nasty views to be true. 

I'm not really interested in computer games, but I watched a small amount of Anita's reviews, so that I knew what people in this thread were talking about. 

She makes the claim that rescuing princesses in Mario will cause men to regard women as damsels in distress, incapable of solving their own problems, which is very similar to the much bemoaned claim that shooting games will convince their players to go around shooting real people. 
Much of her content is about this sort of air-headed thing.

I'm not sure just _how_ hard you have to be hit on the head to find that sort of discussion enjoyable, but I digress. I suspect it appeals to people who like to imagine that finding 'hidden racism' in sonic the hedge-hog would make them the next Rosa Parks. 

...If you think that claim is ironic, I wish it was; people genuinely have compared accusing Mario of being sexist as having similar societal significance to dismantling segregation.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Don't take the risk Butters, it will be too heartbreaking! and they will scream at you saying "YOU NEVER VISIT ME!"



Noooo~ D:

I loved them. I don't want my flamingo to be mad!! ;-;


----------



## Shadow Jaeger (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I remember this one time i had one of my neighbors moving out to one of my friends village and i remember being told 2 months later she got murdered, i didn't know that was impossible at the time but i remember how bad i felt when she died though since i was attached to her.
Then my friend told me who the murderer was....and then he moved into her house.

Kinda creepy thinking about all of it at the time. Silly now...


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Oh, you don't know gamers well, my friend. ;3
> 
> An unfortunate number of gamers have a big problem with any kind of positivity regarding sexual orientation, gender (identity) and race. A game journalist had to quit twitter for pointing out that The Wither III doesn't have a single person of color in it.



Why would a game set in a vaguely European inspired medieval setting have black people? 

I would no more expect to see a white person in a African setting where you play as a Zulu prince hunting down fetish-demons.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Chinese, Japanese, meh soggy knees, look at these.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I would no more expect to see a white person in a African setting where you play as a Zulu prince hunting down fetish-demons.



Why the hell don't we have that game?


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kosdu said:


> I'm staying out of the brunt of this thread and going back to the OP:
> 
> Feminism is a very good thing that is very relevant in todays society and will be until men and women are treated equally in all aspects of life.



If you can spare the time, take a gander at this.

If you have more time to waste, read this.

The ideological movement that you're advocating is literally unraveling the indispensable fabrics that hold civilization whole. 

Proponents of feminism were principally solicitous about the plight of women, but few bothered to analyze the potential ramifications that feminism would exact upon American society. 

No one gave a hoot about the men. They just did what they're biologically programmed to do: suffer in utter silence to appease the wishes and desires of the female. 

Women being given the capacity to vote? Great. 

Women being given the opportunity to pursue higher education if they so choose? Sure. Rock on.

But giving sweeping approbation to single motherhood, sundering the stigma surrounding divorce and adultery in a nonsensical aspiration to imbue women with self-confidence, and launching a social guerrilla war against the fundamental pillars of masculinity? 

That isn't a progressive initiative. 

That's a hate cult.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> the fundamental pillars of masculinity?



 This outta be good.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Do you people understand the cycle that you're putting yourself's in? Do you see it? Do I need to make some kind of picture for you so you can see it?!



Fuck it, I got bored and decided to make a picture of this cycle. I put my blood, sweat, and tears into it (I used Word)


http://i.imgur.com/dKiEWfe.jpg


----------



## Astrium (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Fuck it, I got bored and decided to make a picture of this cycle. I put my blood, sweat, and tears into it (I used Word)
> 
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/dKiEWfe.jpg



Definitely saving that for further use.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I'm not really interested in computer games


YOU ARE NOT A TRUE GAMER, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP POISONING THE GAMING COMMUNITY. >:[



Fallowfox said:


> I'm not sure just _how_ hard you have to be hit on the head to find that sort of discussion enjoyable


I like art, and art needs these discussions. And discussions =/= agreement.



RedSavage said:


> Why would a game set in a vaguely European inspired medieval setting have black people?
> 
> I would no more expect to see a white person in a African setting where you play as a Zulu prince hunting down fetish-demons.


The article explained it perfectly. :/

It's fantasy and not bound by real history when you have fucking elves and shit in it. ELVES, no but blacks allowed. That's pretty goddamned stupid, no?

Also, "vaguely" european? If it's not in the real world it shouldn't have to be bound to real world logic and history.

Videogames have regenerating health and infinitely large, invisible backpacks where you can store rocket launchers, machine guns, plasma rifles, and other big fucking guns. But blacks are too weird and out of place?

It's a total mindfuck, really. And really cute how a game that made a trailer bragging about how much racism there is in it doesn't have a single person of color.  The developers derped big time.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that the article's criticism of The Witcher III does in no way justify the harassment Tariq (the writer) had to endure, being chased with pitchforks out of Twitter. That's the point I was trying to make at first. Gamers don't know how to disagree in a civil manner because they're a bunch of loser spergs who don't know how to socially interact with other people and the real world.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> YOU ARE NOT A TRUE GAMER, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP POISONING THE GAMING COMMUNITY. >:[
> 
> 
> I like art, and art needs these discussions. And discussions =/= agreement.
> ...



47Ronin, set in feudal Japan, is full of ghosts and magical beasts. 

...but there are no black people featured.

 The Movie is clearly not about the real world, because Kai, the main character, was trained to fight by magical daemons. This means that a failure to hire black actors shows that Keanu reeves tacitly approves of segregation. 

I think this shows that there is a tendency amongst Film buffs to be massive sperg-lords.  

What makes things *even worse* is that Mika, Kai's forbidden love, is taken hostage as a Damsel in Distress in an oh-so predictable appeal to Film Buff's repressed sexual musth to 'rescue' women- because the only way women would ever have sex with Filmbuffs is if they were delirious and malnourished. 

I think the screenplay was written by a racist degenerate, who clearly doesn't value women, and I suggest that the script should have been restructured as follows:

Kai is taken hostage, by the evil Kira. White people do feature in the film, but they don't have any important roles, which is a tacit suggestion that no white people are prejudiced. Therefore I would change Kira's ethnicity from Japanese to Anglo-Norman.

The Evil Kira is Jealous of Kai's adoration from Mika, a transsexual black woman and wheel-chair user, who rescues Kai by slapping Kira in the face with her Lady-schlong. 

The film ends with Kai and Mika riding a black panther over the rainbow. The Panther does a massive shit and it lands in Putin's mouth.


ONLY ONCE THESE EDITS ARE MADE WILL 47 RODIN NOT BE A RACIST, TRANSPHOBIC FILM!


#MovieGate


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> 47Ronin, set in feudal Japan, is full of ghosts and magical beasts.   ...but there are no black people featured.   The Movie is clearly not about the real world, because Kai, the main character, was trained to fight by magical daemons. This means that a failure to hire black actors shows that Keanu reeves tacitly approves of segregation.   I think this shows that there is a tendency amongst Film buffs to be massive sperg-lords.    What makes things *even worse* is that Mika, Kai's forbidden love, is taken hostage as a Damsel in Distress in an oh-so predictable appeal to Film Buff's repressed sexual musth to 'rescue' women- because the only way women would ever have sex with Filmbuffs is if they were delirious and malnourished.   I think the screenplay was written by a racist degenerate, who clearly doesn't value women, and I suggest that the script should have been restructured as follows:  Kai is taken hostage, by the evil Kira. White people do feature in the film, but they don't have any important roles, which is a tacit suggestion that no white people are prejudiced. Therefore I would change Kira's ethnicity from Japanese to Anglo-Norman.  The Evil Kira is Jealous of Kai's adoration from Mika, a transsexual black woman and wheel-chair user, who rescues Kai by slapping Kira in the face with her Lady-schlong.   The film ends with Kai and Mika riding a black panther over the rainbow. The Panther does a massive shit and it lands in Putin's mouth.   ONLY ONCE THESE EDITS ARE MADE WILL 47 RODIN NOT BE A RACIST, TRANSPHOBIC FILM!   #MovieGate


 win! you win the internets.   im starting a band guess i have to find a black woman so its not a sexist racist band.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> 47Ronin, set in feudal Japan, is full of ghosts and magical beasts.
> 
> ...but there are no black people featured.


And that's all I'll quote.

I haven't seen the movie but your joke kinda fails because the same race problems aren't there if it's taking place in real, historical Japan. With that being said, though, Hollywood has a big race problem and if a movie taking place in feudal Japan doesn't actually have Japanese people in it then Hollywood are still making asses out of themselves.

The Witcher, though, does not take place in Poland or the real world. If the author behind the source material and the developers behind the game didn't want people of color in The Witcher Saga they have every right not to include them. But it won't make them immune to criticism. And don't have the balls to defend the exclusion of people of color because "lol history" because The Witcher doesn't take place in bloody Poland or Europe in general.

But like I said, if the author and devs don't wanna have people of color, no one's forcing them. But they're making themselves look kinda silly, no?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> And that's all I'll quote.
> 
> I haven't seen the movie but your joke kinda fails because the same race problems aren't there if it's taking place in real, historical Japan. With that being said, though, Hollywood has a big race problem and if a movie taking place in feudal Japan doesn't actually have Japanese people in it then Hollywood are still making asses out of themselves.
> 
> ...



Would you describe Tolkien's middle earth as racist, because it doesn't take place in historical Europe, but features a predominantly European cast? 

What about the BBC's Musketeers? That actually is set in historical France, and black actors play some roles which would have been played by white people?



I think getting your panties in a massive knot about the imaginary ethnicity of an imaginary country is ridiculous. As if every imaginary world has to have a demography that matches 21st century America. 
Moreover, I think a racist double standard is being exercised, because I doubt you would complain about European characters being played by black actors. You'd probably malign anybody who complained about that as xenophobic. 

This is why I think people obsessed with the injustices of fictitious worlds are ridiculous. I've spoken with feminists at Oxford who claimed that Tolkien set a 'racist standard' by including imaginary races, like elves, in his story, but not going out of his way to include Pakistanis and Jews. Some of them believed that the immortal elves, who have long fair hair, obviously showed that Tolkien was a Nazi sympathiser. 

Turned out that those morons hadn't even read any of Tolkien's work.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Would you describe Tolkien's middle earth as racist, because it doesn't take place in historical Europe, but features a predominantly European cast?
> 
> What about the BBC's Musketeers? That actually is set in historical France, and black actors play some roles which would have been played by white people?
> 
> ...


Well, I haven't actually read Tolkien's work and have only seen the first Lord of the Rings and Hobbit (didn't care much, not a big fantasy fan aside from Conan the Barbarian) so I'm not gonna pretend I know shit about it. Those Oxford feminists should maybe cut Tolkien some slack, though... Tolkien wrote that shit many decades ago in a very different past, and while it's somewhat unfortunate that no people of color are there in middle-earth, I think it's unfair to judge old books by modern standards.

The world was different, society was different, and society shapes our perception of reality and in turn, the art and media we create. Sure, I don't think talking about race in Tolkien's works is off-limits, but accusing it of being racist right off the bat without thinking about it is kind of ignorant. You have to think about context and take when the book was released into account. There was a different worldview back then and not the kind of awareness of people of color like there is today, or the same kind if international audience.

Why I'm saying Witcher III has a race problem is because the game was released this year and the novel series certainly hasn't been around for that long. And while the game's made in Poland it's most certainly an international release and one of the biggest games this year. I'm basically accusing the Witcher people of being tools and somewhat oblivious.

Tolkien's works were not 21st century products. But The Witcher games are, and the novels have been translated into english and have reached an international audience (The Last Wish was originally released in 1990 and translated in 2007 if I've gotten my facts straight).

But as I keep saying, the author and devs can do as they please. And I can say what I please. ;3


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, I haven't actually read Tolkien's work and have only seen the first Lord of the Rings and Hobbit (didn't care much, not a big fantasy fan aside from Conan the Barbarian) so I'm not gonna pretend I know shit about it. Those Oxford feminists should maybe cut Tolkien some slack, though... Tolkien wrote that shit many decades ago in a very different past, and while it's somewhat unfortunate that no people of color are there in middle-earth, I think it's unfair to judge old books by modern standards.
> 
> The world was different, society was different, and society shapes our perception of reality and in turn, the art and media we create. Sure, I don't think talking about race in Tolkien's works is off-limits, but accusing it of being racist right off the bat without thinking about it is kind of ignorant. You have to think about context and take when the book was released into account. There was a different worldview back then and not the kind of awareness of people of color like there is today, or the same kind if international audience.
> 
> ...



You're not seeing the point, and you've decided to excuse Tolkien because he 'lived in another time', by which you presumably mean 'it was normal to be racist back then'. 

You're *still *under the spurious impression that, if a fictional story is set in a place which isn't cosmopolitan, that it means the authors are racist. :\ 

It's the kind of pathetic limp-wristed view that comes from someone who avoids saying 'black' as if it's an offensive word and substitutes it with 'colour'- as if this is a 'safe' word and black isn't. ._. 
In England words like 'coloured' and 'Hottentot' were associated with derogatory use. 
If you called someone a 'coloured man' people would raise their eyebrows at you because you'd sound like the sort of person who laments losing the colonies, but I digress.

It's as if you're trying to push this view, that unless you make all your stories and literature conform to 21st century American language, and represent a modern American demographic, that you're racist.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> You're not seeing the point, and you've decided to excuse Tolkien because he 'lived in another time', by which you presumably mean 'it was normal to be racist back then'.
> 
> You're *still *under the spurious impression that, if a fictional story is set in a place which isn't cosmopolitan, that it means the authors are racist. :\
> 
> ...


I feel like you may be putting words in my mouth. I haven't called anyone racist. I do, to an extent, believe erasure is a form of racism but I sincerely doubt Tolkien, Andzrej Sapkowski and CD Projekt RED are deliberately racist with any kind of malicious intent, but they seem blind to the world around them and may be indirectly and unknowingly contributing to a problem.

"Racist" is a heavy word that I don't use lightly. And even so, racist game =/= bad game, at least not automatically. I'm currently enjoying a little 1997 FPS called Shadow Warrior, which is one of the most racist games I've ever played. But it makes me giggle 'cause I'm terrible. :V


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I feel like you may be putting words in my mouth. I haven't called anyone racist. I do, to an extent, believe erasure is a form of racism but I sincerely doubt Tolkien, Andzrej Sapkowski and CD Projekt RED are deliberately racist with any kind of malicious intent, but they seem blind to the world around them and may be indirectly and unknowingly contributing to a problem.
> 
> "Racist" is a heavy word that I don't use lightly. And even so, racist game =/= bad game, at least not automatically. I'm currently enjoying a little 1997 FPS called Shadow Warrior, which is one of the most racist games I've ever played. But it makes me giggle 'cause I'm terrible. :V





> Tolkien wrote that shit many decades ago in a very different past, and  while it's somewhat unfortunate that no people of color are there in  middle-earth, I think it's unfair to judge old books by modern  standards.




You clearly implied that you think Tolkien should have deliberately included African characters in an imaginary world based on Norse mythology, and that his failure to do so is a manifestation of prevailing racist attitudes of 1950's England.

You made the claim that the demography of fictional worlds contributes to racism.
Do you really think that Tolkien contributed to this because Frodo isn't black? 
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-W8oMxNk0Q...+when+black+people+swam+in+his+pool,+1964.jpg


----------



## Astrium (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I never understood the concept of "not including people of X race/nationality/ethnicity in Y automatically makes you racist".


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I never understood the concept of "not including people of X race/nationality/ethnicity in Y automatically makes you racist".



There are rife double standards too. 
Let's be honest 'x race' is almost invariably black people. 
_Nobody_ complains if a Japanese anime set on a futuristic space station doesn't have any aboriginal characters.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Including all demographics for the sake of it / or just because its the 21st century == apparently we have to, this mentality makes no sense to me.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> There are rife double standards too.
> Let's be honest 'x race' is almost invariably black people.
> _Nobody_ complains if a Japanese anime set on a futuristic space station doesn't have any aboriginal characters.



One of the funny things about Anime is that the Japanese characters always look kinda white. XD

You know though, I can kinda see both sides of the argument. 

Because you want to keep your game somewhat historically accurate, but also you are making a game not a nonfiction book. XD So you might want to appeal to diverse demographics in our more globalized world. Also, American Developers are just gonna have to get used to the fact that America is super diverse now. ;3c Cuz Latin peoples will be the majority in the near future and then allllllll your white folks might just...disappear in most games. How'd that make you feel? (I know some people it would piss off :V)

When you are making a game, you have to remember it's interactive. And being inclusive is just the way to go for that. Which is why people enjoy gay marriage in Skyrim, being able to choose your skin color in customizations, and seeing People of Color added to the vast white sea of game characters.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Let's be honest 'x race' is almost invariably black people.



I attribute this unusual phenomenon to the False Ebony Ascendancy Theory---which is just some bullshit pseudo-sociological jargon that I concocted to give a formal title to Afro-America's unparalleled capacity to make the butts of many white nationalists and far-right conservatives burn with excruciating intensity. For the most part, *FEAT* decrees that, owing to their disproportional political, social, and historical presence, Afro-Americans collectively emit a significantly greater amount of societal "noise" than what their share of the demographic pie would suggest that they should. 

 Think about it.

Black entertainers of every skin hue, of both sexes, and of every height are effectively the standard in America. They can be seen on TV, on Youtube, on Twitter, on Facebook, and even retain jurisdiction over a major entertainment network (like BET). Black politicians--including a vibrant mulatto president (whom largely identifies as African-American)--are practically *everywhere* that your eyes snap to. America's professional and university basketball, football, and baseball teams have been wholly infiltrated by Afro-Americans (with the NFL and the NBA being *overwhelmingly* black). You see black people at your job, on your college campus, and servicing your government. You see them in video games, in cinema, and you hear them on the radio. 

Every you look, a black person is on TV, in a magazine, or on a radio station doing or saying _something. _You _can't_ evade their presence, and their status as a highly visible minority--one that is tainted with the mark of infamy yet conversely blessed with the icon of prestige--only agitates your anxiety. Black people [currently] represent the structural scaffolding of the Democratic Party. They are the poster child--nay, the fundamental mascots!--of America's liberal progressive scene. 

When someone wants to talk about "race", they're invariably referring to whites and blacks.

From the frequent slave rebellions to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s to the approximately 165 riots that broke out in the 60s, no race in US history has made more "noise" than Afro-Americans. 

The result? Anti-black blogs are a dime a dozen; white nationalists practically develop hate erections at the mere mention of a black person; modern racists seem to be entirely fixated on Negroes. So incredibly potent is the black presence in America that white nationalists will give non-white Hispanics, Asians, and even *Jews* a pass if it means directing more unadulterated animosity at black people. 

It's absolutely stunning.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

On the topic of the Witcher 3, the Witcher games are based enitrely on Slavic culture, Slavic folklore, and are by Slavic people.

The word "slave" comes from the slavs, because so very many slavic people were sold into slavery. Poland, where the game was created, was also torn apart by both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, and much of the indigenous Polish population were subjected to (real) oppression, and mass slaughter. Hitler hated the Slavs more than he hated the Jews. To top it off, they only broke free from total misery after the fall of the Soviet Union, which was relatively speaking very very recent.

Slavs were considered to be subhuman for centuries, and slavs being referred to as "white" is a relatively new thing, and many people still don't consider the Slavs white at all.

So you can probably see why they're not so happy being told that their culture is not slavic, let alone Polish just "white" culture and a "white" perspective and from a "priveliged class".


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So what you're saying is you want Hilter to be the villain in the next Witcher game? :V

That would be kinda awesome though think about it. Magic and Nazi Zombies...


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

For those of us who don't live in that culture, it's plain friggin' weird when people start crying about social injustice if a story doesn't involve black people...when there aren't any ethnic Chinese or Afghans in the story either. 

Personally I don't think they actually care about what the demography of a movie or book is. They only care that there are token black people involved, even if it would be painfully obvious that their characters are being written in _as_ tokens, which *is* actually condescending to black people. 

It's like when you see Americans telling Australians that they are misogynists for using the word 'cunt'. If an Australian describes his best friend as 'the biggest cunt in Melbourne' he's being complimentary. 

Not everyone has the same culture as America, and recently people in Europe have been trying to adopt these standards and chastising their friends as if failing to do so shows you're not politically progressive. ._.



Schwimmwagen said:


> On the topic of the Witcher 3, the Witcher  games are based enitrely on Slavic culture, Slavic folklore, and are by  Slavic people.
> 
> The word "slave" comes from the slavs, because so very many slavic  people were sold into slavery. Poland, where the game was created, was  also torn apart by both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, and much of  the indigenous Polish population were subjected to (real) oppression,  and mass slaughter. Hitler hated the Slavs more than he hated the Jews.  To top it off, they only broke free from total misery after the fall of  the Soviet Union, which was relatively speaking very very recent.
> 
> ...



[for a while some people didn't even believe that Slavic and Aryan Europeans were the same species; some people thought the Slavs were the descendants of the Neanderthal, rather than the Cro-Magnon that other Europeans were descended from]

I agree; it's absolutely ignorant for people living in Maryland to assume that the rest of the world has had the same social history as they have, but this is the very standard that internet slactivists demand.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> So what you're saying is you want Hilter to be the villain in the next Witcher game? :V
> 
> That would be kinda awesome though think about it. Magic and Nazi Zombies...



Meh, Hitler and Nazi Zombies are a little overdone. Sniper Elite was good fun, though. There's some DLC where you get to shoot Hitler but I haven't tried that one



Fallowfox said:


> [for a while some people didn't even believe  that Slavic and Aryan Europeans were the same species; some people  thought the Slavs were the descendants of the Neanderthal, rather than  the Cro-Magnon that other Europeans were descended from]
> 
> I agree; it's absolutely ignorant for people living in Maryland to  assume that the rest of the world has had the same social history as  they have, but this is the very standard that internet slactivists  demand.



It's a pretty narrow-minded view for people who consider themselves open-minded and socially aware. There's no French, English, German, Polish, Italian, or Russian, just "White".


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Meh, Hitler and Nazi Zombies are a little overdone. Sniper Elite was good fun, though. There's some DLC where you get to shoot Hitler but I haven't tried that one



True, and not enough Stalin inspired villains. Which you would have thought would have inspired more games with that Cold War shit lasting as long as it did.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> You clearly implied that you think Tolkien should have deliberately included African characters in an imaginary world based on Norse mythology, and that his failure to do so is a manifestation of prevailing racist attitudes of 1950's England.
> 
> You made the claim that the demography of fictional worlds contributes to racism.
> Do you really think that Tolkien contributed to this because Frodo isn't black?
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-W8oMxNk0Q...+when+black+people+swam+in+his+pool,+1964.jpg


You keep putting words in my mouth and give simple answers to complex questions. :I

Depends on what kind of racism we're talking here, I doubt Lord of the Rings contributes to hate crimes but giving people of color, as well, as different gender and sexual diversity does help in letting people know those who are different exist and help positive attitudes.

When I grew up I didn't even know what a transgender person was, because trans people either didn't exist or were creepy gay rapists who would turn you gay by luring them in and raping them, this lack of visibility and positive attitudes contributed to a type of structural transphobia which led to me living with internalized transphobia until I was 18, and I was ALREADY bullied in school, if I decided to tell everyone I was a girl on top of that I'd probably be lynched.

I kinda imagine it might be similar in terms of race, but there's still no malicious intent on the creator's part. I'm thinking of positives, not negatives. But invisibility means a lack of awareness and a lack of awareness can have dire consequences.

However, I wouldn't say Tolkien was racist. I'd say he didn't know any better. There's a distinct difference there, in my opinion. The Witcher is a different story, it's a modern franchise and we do know better now.



Naesaki said:


> Including all demographics for the sake of it / or just because its the 21st century == apparently we have to, this mentality makes no sense to me.


Nobody has to, and I've said nobody has to. People can make whatever game or fantasy setting they want. They can make a game with whites only if they want to.

Heck, personally I want diversity to come from the heart, so I always roll my eyes when a comic book super hero is turned gay or replaced by a woman because it doesn't feel like an honest decision from the heart, to me, it feels more like a cheap move to make a quick buck, like every time a super hero dies and is brought back to life. :V

But like I keep saying, whites-only fiction and similar works of art aren't immune to criticism and these discussions can be quite healthy and enlightening, in my opinion.



Butters Shikkon said:


> Also, American Developers are just gonna have to get used to the fact that America is super diverse now. ;3c Cuz Latin peoples will be the majority in the near future and then allllllll your white folks might just...disappear in most games. How'd that make you feel? (I know some people it would piss off :V)


To help you out, The Witcher games are made in Poland. But they're still made for an international audience so making them whites-only was probably not the smartest move on CD Projekt RED's part.

EDIT:
Jesus, I missed a lot when writing this, about the Slavs and so on. :S

But just because slavs aren't traditional white doesn't mean there ain't room for other groups of people, no? Surely this big fantasy world has rooms for people of all colors. Otherwise it must be a very small one.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> To help you out, The Witcher games are made in Poland. But they're still made for an international audience so making them whites-only was probably not the smartest move on CD Projekt RED's part.



Are they? XD Well, you go Poland~ I think Nintendo is figuring this out too btw. I liked the new Mii's features that allowed for more ethnic hair. So it's nice to see a company somewhere realize they have a global audience. 

Can I ask something? I've never played the Witcher games. Are they about the Slav's struggles against discrimination? Or is it just a "shoot bad guys and feel like a man" type game?


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Can I ask something? I've never played the Witcher games. Are they about the Slav's struggles against discrimination? Or is it just a "shoot bad guys and feel like a man" type game?



They're stories centered heavily around Slavic folklore and old culture, which I doubt anybody here knows anything about, or even wants to.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> They're stories centered heavily around Slavic folklore and old culture, which I doubt anybody here knows anything about, or even wants to.



:> I'd like to know more about Eastern Europe's stories...and even Russian ones. But you never see anything really focused on that in our media. Cept that Don Bluth Anastasia movie...which was...not that accurate. ;-;


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Heck, personally I want diversity to come from the heart, so I always roll my eyes when a comic book super hero is turned gay or replaced by a woman because it doesn't feel like an honest decision from the heart, to me, it feels more like a cheap move to make a quick buck, like every time a super hero dies and is brought back to life. :V



I want it from the heart as well, I don't like it just being tacked in to create diversity, I mean as much as I enjoyed the XIII Trilogy, Sazh as an example although he was a good character he just felt really tacked on to include a black man, thankfully he wasn't stereotype ridden other than the other odd quirk


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> You keep putting words in my mouth and give simple answers to complex questions. :I
> 
> Depends on what kind of racism we're talking here, I doubt Lord of the Rings contributes to hate crimes but giving people of color, as well, as different gender and sexual diversity does help in letting people know those who are different exist and help positive attitudes.
> 
> ...





This is the fucking problem, Kellie. 
It's not Tolkien's job to write a story that will prompt people to think about transexuals more. Not everything has to be about you and whoever else you think is a victim in your particular society. 

The Hobbit is more about living a boring life, and then discovering your own capacity for adventure- to not live in a comfortable house under-hill in the shire, like the rest of 'em, but become a burglar and a dragon slayer; to have *an adventure*. 



but if you want to write a diversity friendly fanfiction, nobody's stopping you; I'll start you off.
Smaug is a self-hating gay dragon living in the lonely mountain of yiff. Smaug doesn't really want to upset the people of laketown, he just has this massive fetish for treasure and doesn't want people to persecute him for being a dragon. 
Bilbo finds Smaug, and then they fly away to start a new life in Mexico.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

:C double post



Schwimmwagen said:


> Meh, Hitler and Nazi Zombies are a little  overdone. Sniper Elite was good fun, though. There's some DLC where you  get to shoot Hitler but I haven't tried that one
> 
> 
> 
> It's a pretty narrow-minded view for people who consider themselves  open-minded and socially aware. There's no French, English, German,  Polish, Italian, or Russian, just "White".



They're the same people who would complain about casting a white actor, instead of a mixed-race one, but wouldn't see a problem with having a Bantu actor play a Khoisan one, when the Bantu pretty much ruthlessly exterminated the Khoisan.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Actually, Smaug could represent a plutocrat which Tolkien was not super fond of. (Smaug hoarded his wealth and when Bilbo tries to redistribute it, the dragon burns all of Laketown to the ground in spite. And greed is sorta what started the Battle of the Five Armies.) 

The Simarillion is way more badass anyway. :V


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> But just because slavs aren't traditional white doesn't mean there ain't room for other groups of people, no? Surely this big fantasy world has rooms for people of all colors. Otherwise it must be a very small one.



You don't need to cram "more colours" into just one piece of work.

If you want Polish culture, you pick up something Polish.
If you want Chinese culture, you pick up something Chinese.
If you want Irsaeli culture, you pick up something Israeli.
If you want "black" culture, you pick up something suitably "black".

You don't make a "Polishchineseisraeliblack" piece of work. Where's the cultural identity in that? e.g. Why do we need to be reminded that Israel exists when we're trying to read/watch/listen about China? We know it exists, we just want a dose of China right now. The Chinese have made a Chinese thing about Chinese culture and Chinese history with themse of Chinese folklore full of Chinese people from China to show to people that aren't Chinese.



Butters Shikkon said:


> Actually, Smaug could represent a  plutocrat which Tolkien was not super fond of. (Smaug hoarded his wealth  and when Bilbo tries to redistribute it, the dragon burns all of  Laketown to the ground in spite. And greed is sorta what started the  Battle of the Five Armies.)



So it's the Red Revolution of The Shire?


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> You don't need to cram "more colours" into just one piece of work.
> 
> If you want Polish culture, you pick up something Polish.
> If you want Chinese culture, you pick up something Chinese.
> ...



Well throughout history, there have been tons of multicultural societies. The Ottoman Empire is a nice example and pretty much all of India;s history too. Truth be told, the number of cultures that were not affected by other cultures is few and far between. So its really disingenuous to think all cultures are made up of their racial majority.  

Also, @ the Red Shire thing: If only, If only~


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> They're stories centered heavily around Slavic folklore and old culture, which I doubt anybody here knows anything about, or even wants to.


And here's what I've wanted to know all along; why does this means excluding people of color but not elves, if the game doesn't actually take place in say, the 500s-800s AD?



Fallowfox said:


> It's not Tolkien's job to write a story that will prompt people to think about transexuals more. Not everything has to be about you and whoever else you think is a victim in your particular society.


I dunno how much more I gotta repeat myself. x3

No, wasn't his job, but I have a right to at least bring it up and talk about it. Tolkien's works are not immune to this kind of criticism but with that being said I am not asking for any kind of censoring or rewritings of his work. They should remain protected as works of art, just like my criticism has a right to be protected as freedom of speech.

Got it? Let's repeat.

Works of art aren't immune to criticism.

Works of art aren't immune to criticism.

Criticism doesn't have to be listened to.

Criticism doesn't have to be listened to.

I dunno how much clearer I can be, mate. 



Schwimmwagen said:


> You don't need to cram "more colours" into just one piece of work.
> 
> If you want Polish culture, you pick up something Polish.


THE WITCHER DOES NOT TAKE PLACE IN POLAND


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> And here's what I've wanted to know all along; why does this means excluding people of color but not elves, if the game doesn't actually take place in say, the 500s-800s AD?
> 
> 
> I dunno how much more I gotta repeat myself. x3
> ...




Elves are a part of Slavic Folklore. Black people are *not* mythical creatures in Slavic folklore. 

I don't think art is immune to criticism. I think the criticisms you are making are retarded. 

Nobody has to respect or agree with your point of view; I am free to point out how dumb your ideas are. 

Freedom of speech does not mean 'I am allowed to criticise other people, but nobody is allowed to criticise _me_,'


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Elves are a part of Slavic Folklore. Black people are *not* mythical creatures in Slavic folklore.
> 
> I don't think art is immune to criticism. I think the criticisms you are making are retarded.
> 
> ...


But there are human beings in Witcher, no? And blacks are people, too. 

No, nobody has to respect my point of view, I'm just kinda baffled by the reading comprehension here.


----------



## Luki (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Personally I think more games should be like the Elder Scrolls, representing the opressed cat and lizardmen :v

Honestly though, I don't like this pressure on game devs to put something or other in THEIR game, THEIR story. If they want to tell a story where everyone is white, black, straight,green, plantsexual, let them.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> It's a pretty narrow-minded view for people who consider themselves open-minded and socially aware. There's no French, English, German, Polish, Italian, or Russian, just "White".



So racist. :v


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Luki said:


> Honestly though, I don't like this pressure on game devs to put something or other in THEIR game, THEIR story. If they want to tell a story where everyone is white, black, straight,green, plantsexual, let them.



Really, if it ain't an artsy game like Shadow of the Colossus or Journey, most games are designed to make money more than anything else and the art is sorta just a nice byproduct of that. :V And the consumer is demanding more diversity. :33


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Luki said:


> Personally I think more games should be like the Elder Scrolls, representing the opressed cat and lizardmen :v
> 
> Honestly though, I don't like this pressure on game devs to put something or other in THEIR game, THEIR story. If they want to tell a story where everyone is white, black, straight,green, plantsexual, let them.


Pressure or not, it's up to the developers if they wanna cave in or not.

I mean, some people are putting pressure on Nintendo to cancel Metroid Prime: Federation Force but it's still Nintendo's call in the end, and they probably won't because that particular demand is a silly one. 

Also, we ARE letting people tell the story they want. Nobody is forcing anyone into anything.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> But there are human beings in Witcher, no? And blacks are people, too.
> 
> No, nobody has to respect my point of view, I'm just kinda baffled by the reading comprehension here.



So are fucking Samurai. 

There is slavic stuff in a slavic game based on slavic folklore? The world is going to end.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> So are fucking Samurai.
> 
> There is slavic stuff in a slavic game based on slavic folklore? The world is going to end.


At least try to read this and see where I'm coming from.

Here's a juicy segment, by the way;



> The Witcher world itself features the region of Zerrikania, whose inhabitants seem very much inspired by the Middle East. In the first _Witcher, a prominent Zerrikanian character is named Azar Javed, an Arabic name. Like mine! Culture and names are welcome, but skin color, it seems, is not._



But if you still don't agree after reading the article, well, fair enough. :3


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

so if im making an rpg i need to include, blacks, whites, chinese, japanese, russian, french, trangendered, genderqueer, bisexual, pansexual, straight, autistic, cerebral palsy, etc.  boohoo if anyone gets offended. you wouldnt hear these SJW fucktards complaining about an all black game would you? these white knight fuck heads need to back the fuck off.  if i make a painting of 3 white men is that racist? if i write  a book with only japanese character is that racist? if i start a band do i need a black woman in it to be exempt from the ramblings of you SJW assholes who need to dip their white knight toes into every artistic pool? NO...NO I DONT! because artistic expression does NOT have to account for north american ethnic diversity.  its a sad world we live in when someone decides to make a game or write a book and no longer does it matter that it is THEIR game and THEIR work of art. these days if you don't do everything the masses want you to do, due to the white guilt and SJW nonsensical white knighting rampages,  you are apparently a bad person and a racist. Piss off! your all a bunch of whiny "give everyone a slice of cake even tho its not your cake" people.  not every ethnicity, sexual orientation, and view has to be considered.  im tired of the whiny SJW asshole's  screaming racist and sexist accusations at people.  dont like it? write your own book, make your own game, shoot your own movie. but stop trying to manipulate everyone else thru the media to twist to your insane standards.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> At least try to read this and see where I'm coming from.
> 
> Here's a juicy segment, by the way;
> 
> ...



I already did read that article. I read it when you first posted it. ._. 


it's written by another person who thinks 'black' is a derogatory term and substitutes it with 'person of colour'...as if we call white people 'person without colour'. 

The whole argument seems to be 'it would be fine if an Indian person made a game about Indian culture and it didn't have any black people in it, but it's not fair for a game made by a slavic person to be about slavic people because there's already too many privileged white people in the media'


at this point lots of slavs will be sitting up asking 'wait a minute, I'm a privileged white guy now?' 

The article makes non-sequitors like 'all humans in the witcher are slavic, therefore the game's authors are implying that non-slavs are not human'.




ShioBear said:


> so if im making an rpg i need to include, * blacks,* whites, chinese, japanese, russian, french, *trangendered*,  genderqueer, bisexual, pansexual, straight, autistic, cerebral palsy,  etc.  boohoo if anyone gets offended. you wouldnt hear these SJW  fucktards complaining about an all black game would you? these white  knight fuck heads need to back the fuck off.  if i make a painting of 3  white men is that racist? if i write  a book with only japanese  character is that racist? if i start a band do i need a black woman in  it to be exempt from the ramblings of you SJW assholes who need to dip  you white knight toes into every artistic pool? NO...NO I DONT! because  artistic expression does NOT have to account for north american ethnic  diversity.  its a sad world we live in when someone decides to make a  game or write a book and no longer does it matter that it is THEIR game  and THEIR work of art, these days if you don't do everything the masses  want you to do, due to the white guilt and SJW nonsensical white  knighting rampages, that you are apparently a bad person and a racist.  Piss off! your all a bunch of whiny "give everyone a slice of cake even  tho its not your cake" people.  not every ethnicity, sexual orientation,  and view has to be considered.  im tired of the whiny SJW asshole's   screaming racist and sexist accusations at people.  dont like it? write  your own book, make your own game, shoot your own movie. but stop trying  to manipulate everyone else thru the media to twist to your insane  standards.



Yup.
According to Kellie's logic you only need to include these two. The rest don't matter, and it's absolutely fine to include autistics, but only to make fun of them for being sperglords.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> so if im making an rpg i need to include, blacks, whites, chinese, japanese, russian, french, trangendered, genderqueer, bisexual, pansexual, straight, autistic, cerebral palsy, etc.  boohoo if anyone gets offended. you wouldnt hear these SJW fucktards complaining about an all black game would you? these white knight fuck heads need to back the fuck off.  if i make a painting of 3 white men is that racist? if i write  a book with only japanese character is that racist? if i start a band do i need a black woman in it to be exempt from the ramblings of you SJW assholes who need to dip their white knight toes into every artistic pool? NO...NO I DONT! because artistic expression does NOT have to account for north american ethnic diversity.  its a sad world we live in when someone decides to make a game or write a book and no longer does it matter that it is THEIR game and THEIR work of art. these days if you don't do everything the masses want you to do, due to the white guilt and SJW nonsensical white knighting rampages,  you are apparently a bad person and a racist. Piss off! your all a bunch of whiny "give everyone a slice of cake even tho its not your cake" people.  not every ethnicity, sexual orientation, and view has to be considered.  im tired of the whiny SJW asshole's  screaming racist and sexist accusations at people.  dont like it? write your own book, make your own game, shoot your own movie. but stop trying to manipulate everyone else thru the media to twist to your insane standards.


And here's another one. To quote a fellow media critic; "reading comprehension fail".

No one needs to include anything, but people have a right to at least criticize your work.

Shio, you seem to be the one most terrified of game's criticism in the entire thread. Hell, it's why you MADE this thread.

And honestly, I want to be able to talk about something else in games than fucking grass physics. You don't have to like what I'm saying bu I have the right.



Fallowfox said:


> it's written by another person who thinks 'black' is a derogatory term and substitutes it with 'person of colour'...as if we call white people 'person without colour'.


I'm pretty sure he used that term because there are people of several different colors, not just black and white.



Fallowfox said:


> Yup.
> According to Kellie's logic you only need to include these two. The rest don't matter, and it's absolutely fine to include autistics, but only to make fun of them for being sperglords.


Putting words in my mouth again. I've never said only blacks and transgendered people should be included.

Diversity should be diversity, meaning, you know, a little bit of everything and everyone.

Once again, reading comprehension fail.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

> People don't find argument persuasive

> Accuse them of being illiterate 


We are not saying you have no right to criticise. We are saying that the criticisms you've made are nonsense.

But you know, when we say we disagree with you we're 'trampling on your rights'
but when you accuse anybody who doesn't agree with you of tacit racism or transphobia, when you actually try to blackmail people into agreeing with you, that's not coercive _at all_.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> > People don't find argument persuasive
> 
> > Accuse them of being illiterate
> 
> ...


Except you guys keep saying that I'm saying that anyone "has to" do anything. I'm giving people the power of choice.

And then you make up the claim that I only wanna include black and transgender people because... I don't know, maybe you're one of those people who are only happy when you're mad.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Diversity should be diversity, meaning, you know, a little bit of everything and everyone.



I don't even think it ALWAYS has to be everything. But when there are clear minorities in your culture that do exist even in the timeline of fantasy stories, it starts to look either lazy or suspect when all the characters are the nation's stereotype race. 

Also, homosexuals exist in every culture known to man so there is really no excuse not to address their stories. And transgender folk have existed in history (or atleast a 3rd gender anyway).


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I don't even think it ALWAYS has to be everything.


Neither do I. But we certainly do need more of it, but only if creators want to make it.~


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> I don't even think it ALWAYS has to be everything. But when there are clear minorities in your culture that do exist even in the timeline of fantasy stories, it starts to look either lazy or suspect when all the characters are the nation's stereotype race.
> 
> Also, *homosexuals exist in every culture known to man so there is really no excuse not to address their stories*. And transgender folk have existed in history (or atleast a 3rd gender anyway).




You're not exactly going to complain if there isn't a token gay character in the Telly-tubbies though, right? 

I don't think stories need to be fudged and complicated with token characters to promote notions of inclusivity, because I don't believe that children will become homophobic if bugs bunny isn't openly gay. [although this would be most yiffy and desireable]

Deliberately trying to make your story conform to notions of political correctness can, at worst, get in the way of the story, but at best it comes off as patronising and insipid 'look look, I included a pointless segment about a minor gay character, now that I have protected the gays from prejudice, we can get back to the plot'.


----------



## Taikugemu (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

"7.8/10 too much white."


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> You're not exactly going to complain if there isn't a token gay character in the Telly-tubbies though, right?
> 
> I don't think stories need to be fudged and complicated with token characters to promote notions of inclusivity, because I don't believe that children will become homophobic if bugs bunny isn't openly gay. [although this would be most yiffy and desireable]
> 
> Deliberately trying to make your story conform to notions of political correctness can, at worst, get in the way of the story, but at best it comes off as patronising and insipid 'look look, I included a pointless segment about a minor gay character, now that I have protected the gays from prejudice, we can get back to the plot'.


There isn't anything political in merely acknowledging that gays or people of color exist, as long as you don't start preaching about it.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> You're not exactly going to complain if there isn't a token gay character in the Telly-tubbies though, right?



Your 90's kid is showing. 

 I don't think having gay characters in romance stories or even in kid's show is too much. Like a gay mom or a gay dad. That's just reality. Not pandering. 

The only reason gays haven't been shown anyway is because people considered them evil or were afraid of backlash from homophobes.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> We are not saying you have no right to criticize. We are saying that the criticisms you've made are nonsense.  But you know, when we say we disagree with you we're 'trampling on your rights' [/I].


 yeah exactly. you have the right to criticize. we have the right to call you on it, if it make's ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL! -.-  if you think we are trampling on your rights by criticizing you. then your a hypocrite.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> yeah exactly. you have the right to criticize. we have the right to call you on it, if it make's ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL! -.-  if you think we are trampling on your rights by criticizing you. then your a hypocrite.


Yet you guys keep acting like people like me or Anita Sarkeesian are trampling on people's rights and artistic freedom like we're fucking talibans storming into studios like CD Projekt RED and threatening to blow their brains out with AK-47's if they don't make a game with a diverse cast. We aren't taking any choices away from them, we're merely giving them constructive criticism. Criticism can be ignored.

Stop being so scared of criticisms, mate. And if you merely disagree with me, that's fine. I'm a grown woman. <3


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> There isn't anything political in merely acknowledging that gays or people of color exist, as long as you don't start preaching about it.



Including gay characters because you think you have to do it to appeal to people's sensibilities, is preachy. 
Character's sex lives aren't always important to a story, and when gay characters are included this is often signified by their coherence to gay stereotypes, or by deliberately marching them around the place with their partner until people get the message. 
This makes bland and irrelevant characters, whose soul purpose seems to be to make the story's illusion of reality less convincing, because you become aware of the author's angst to be viewed as inclusive.



Kellie Gator said:


> Yet you guys keep acting like people like me  or Anita Sarkeesian are trampling on people's rights and artistic  freedom like we're fucking talibans storming into studios like CD  Projekt RED and threatening to blow their brains out with AK-47's if  they don't make a game with a diverse cast. We aren't taking any choices  away from them, we're merely giving them constructive criticism.  Criticism can be ignored.
> 
> Stop being so scared of criticisms, mate. And if you merely disagree with me, that's fine. I'm a grown woman. <3



Describing people as racists, calling people sperglords and so forth is really nasty, especially when accusations of racism are a social taboo.

Imagine how you would feel if someone followed you around calling you a paedophile and you'll get an impression of what it would make someone feel like. 

Do you see why people don't like it when you say 'ah, Tolkien, I've not really read him much, but I suppose he was probably reinforcing a prejudiced culture because his books don't have enough transsexuals in them'?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

its hardly constructive. and you cant seem to accept the fact that people are calling you on your bullshit. the FACT remains, anita sarsleezian is no longer just a harmless critic. she has power. she has been on multiple broadcasted talk shows and and has already weezled her way into some games production teams. she is physically affecting gaming now with her nonsensical bullshit. so no its not just criticism anymore. and ffs it  is not constructive its destructive.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> Kellie Gator said:
> 
> 
> > Yet you guys keep acting like people like me or Anita Sarkeesian are trampling on people's rights and artistic freedom like we're fucking talibans storming into studios like CD Projekt RED and threatening to blow their brains out with AK-47's if they don't make a game with a diverse cast. We aren't taking any choices away from them, we're merely giving them constructive criticism. Criticism can be ignored.  Stop being so scared of criticisms, mate. And if you merely disagree with me, that's fine. I'm a grown woman.
> ...


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I think people like Kellie need to realise that tossing around accusations of racism and transphobia just isn't nice. 

It's often especially hypocritical when you post articles which outline the case that 'doing x is racist...but remember that it's only racist if white people are doing it,'


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

im tired of white guilt. seriously my grandparents on my dads side immigrated from Holland after the war, and my great great grandparents on the other side are from Scotland. who had nothing to do with any of the slavery shit. i see more racist black people  assuming all white people are evil based on our skin color. I've been called racist slurs many times like honkey and cracker. i say no more white guilt, i had nothing to do with that shit and black people growing up in this millennia have no right to complain about white people.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Character's sex lives aren't always important to a story


Gays aren't necessarily defined by their sex lives. 



Fallowfox said:


> Describing people as racists, calling people sperglords and so forth is really nasty, especially when accusations of racism are a social taboo.


I've probably said some things I shouldn't have in this thread and I apologize for that, but I'm not sure if you or anyone else here has a right to talk about what's nasty and hurtful when this thread was made to demonize a woman and that the OP repeatedly calls said woman "cunt". That's nasty.



Fallowfox said:


> Do you see why people don't like it when you say 'ah, Tolkien, I've not really read him much, but I suppose he was probably reinforcing a prejudiced culture because his books don't have enough transsexuals in them'?


Wow, you're really taking my example of internalized transphobia due to lack of visibility and running with it. Make me giggle. <3

I never accused Tolkien of being transphobic, mate.



ShioBear said:


> its hardly constructive. and you cant seem to accept the fact that people are calling you on your bullshit. the FACT remains, anita sarsleezian is no longer just a harmless critic. she has power. she has been on multiple broadcasted talk shows and and has already weezled her way into some games production teams. she is physically affecting gaming now with her nonsensical bullshit. so no its not just criticism anymore. and ffs it  is not constructive its destructive.


People still have the power to say no to her but frankly I really don't see what kind of threat she is or what kind of harm she could possibly cause. Games haven't exactly changed since she started, games are still sexist and frankly sexist games will probably always exist even if they may be less pervasive in the future.



Fallowfox said:


> I think people like Kellie need to realise that tossing around accusations of racism and transphobia just isn't nice.


I NEVER ACCUSED ANYONE OF BEING TRANSPHOBIC, I only told a personal story about trans visibility without pointing fingers at any person or work of art. Goddamn mate, you're hilarious. x3


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

oops, double post


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> People still have the power to say no to her but frankly I really don't see what kind of threat she is or what kind of harm she could possibly cause. Games haven't exactly changed since she started, games are still sexist and frankly sexist games will probably always exist even if they may be less pervasive in the future.


  ok back your shit up. give me 5 sexist games and explain why they are sexist please and thanks


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ok back your shit up. give me 5 sexist games and explain why they are sexist please and thanks


Saying "sexist games" is a bit disingenuous, I suppose, because I've always considered this to be in the eye of the beholder and subjective, there's no objectively sexist game, IMO, just like there's no objectively good game.

But you must be kind of delusional to think there isn't a single sexist video game out there, no?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Saying "sexist games" is a bit disingenuous, I suppose, because I've always considered this to be in the eye of the beholder and subjective, there's no objectively sexist game, IMO, just like there's no objectively good game.
> 
> But you must be kind of delusional to think there isn't a single sexist video game out there, no?



_Rapelay_. Literally a game about forcibly groping women in public places, among other unsavory things.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Saying "sexist games" is a bit disingenuous, I suppose, because I've always considered this to be in the eye of the beholder and subjective, there's no objectively sexist game, IMO, just like there's no objectively good game.  But you must be kind of delusional to think there isn't a single sexist video game out there, no?


 okay so name 3?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2G3lM2opf0 your full of shit just like anita


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Whether something's sexist isn't subjective. Is discrimination or incitement of hatred on the grounds of sex taking place? If so, then it's sexist. 

If not, then stop calling things sexist as if it's some wistful philosophical remark, when it's actually like a sledgehammer of taboo. 

@shiobear, Kellie won't even watch that, you know. 


Also, all of this patronising talk about 'ah gay isn't just a sexual preference' is quite frustrating. Being gay really is nothing more than your sexual preference, and this is why when people try to show they are including gay characters in their stories it often involves cringey discussions of stereotypically gay stuff.

When I deliberately want stories with gay people in them, I read porn on FA. I don't care whether Frodo likes cock or pussy, it's not relevant to the story.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Fallow, you know better.

I didn't propose to my same sex fiance because of their hot ass...although, it was a nice bonus. ;3c


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Fallow, you know better.
> 
> I didn't propose to my same sex fiance because of their hot ass...although, it was a nice bonus. ;3c



I'm sorry; I just rolled my eyes back so far into my head that I think I may have gone blind. 


For a good long while now, gay people have been trying to establish that being gay isn't about dressing as a woman, liking effeminate things, and so on. The only criterion to be gay is same-sex attraction. 

We don't need gay stereotypes popping up in television, so that the content producers can assure us that they know gay people exist. 
At best someone pops up who appeals to all the gay stereotypes, and at worst it's a matter of 
'here is my partner, they are the same sex as me, WE'RE GAY'
'Oh alright, do you play any important role in the plot of this story?'
'Nope, not really. DID I MENTION WE'RE GAY?'
'yeah you did, but I'm not really interested in,'
'I PUT MY PENIS IN THIS MAN'S ARSE'
'Okay, already,'. 

It just makes me cringe, we get the message; some people are gay, and everyone's gotten the fuck over it. 

Dumbledoor in Harry Potter is gay, and was all along. That was revealed when a journalist just asked JK Rowling if there were any gay characters in her stories. 
She never felt like making it super-duper-neon-flashing-sign obvious, though, because his sexuality was about as important to the story as what time in the afternoon voldemort takes a dump. :\


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I'm sorry; I just rolled my eyes back so far into my head that I think I may have gone blind.



It's so good to see you still retained your gay sass despite arguing that such things makes one a stereotype. One critique though. You should have started it off with a 

O...M...G, *Buttersss**s**sssssss*~ And finished off with the L snap.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Whether something's sexist isn't subjective. Is discrimination or incitement of hatred on the grounds of sex taking place? If so, then it's sexist.   If not, then stop calling things sexist as if it's some wistful philosophical remark, when it's actually like a sledgehammer of taboo.   @shiobear, Kellie won't even watch that, you know.    Also, all of this patronising talk about 'ah gay isn't just a sexual preference' is quite frustrating. Being gay really is nothing more than your sexual preference, and this is why when people try to show they are including gay characters in their stories it often involves cringey discussions of stereotypically gay stuff.  When I deliberately want stories with gay people in them, I read porn on FA. I don't care whether Frodo likes cock or pussy, it's not relevant to the story.


  yeah she wont watch anything that wont cement her own ideals.....  i don't like arguing but some people are just so far up their own asses they cant see anything anyone elses way. i mean at a time i even called myself a feminist till i realized the bullshit it stands for. i now call myself a humanist, because unlike some people i have researched the movement i once followed and opened my god damn eyes -.-


----------



## Willow (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Whether something's sexist isn't subjective. Is discrimination or incitement of hatred on the grounds of sex taking place? If so, then it's sexist.
> 
> If not, then stop calling things sexist as if it's some wistful philosophical remark, when it's actually like a sledgehammer of taboo.


Things can be sexist without being blatantly sexist you know..and also things can be sexist without being discriminatory. 
Female battle armor is a good example of this. 



> Also, all of this patronising talk about 'ah gay isn't just a sexual preference' is quite frustrating. Being gay really is nothing more than your sexual preference, and this is why when people try to show they are including gay characters in their stories it often involves cringey discussions of stereotypically gay stuff.


That's kind of the problem and that's what a lot of LGBT people want to move away from, gay characters whose sexualities aren't a focal point of their character. 

However at the same time, I think to deny that there isn't a certain lifestyle that generally comes with being gay (or any part of the LGBT community for that matter) is a bit ignorant wouldn't you think. Not saying everyone does and should ascribe to it but it does exist.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> humanist



You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Humanism: An outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.  Humanism: An outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.


  yeah and gay means happy.  just like feminism isnt really an equality term anymore, humanist is used to describe something different now, mainly equality among humans.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> yeah and gay means happy.  just like feminism isnt really an equality term anymore, humanist is used to describe something different now, mainly equality among humans.



That's actually generally referred to as "equalism".


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> That's actually generally referred to as "equalism".


  whatever floats your boat hun, doesn't matter to me.


----------



## Tao (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

people should quit getting offended so much 

especially by fictional things


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> im tired of white guilt. seriously my grandparents on my dads side immigrated from Holland after the war, and my great great grandparents on the other side are from Scotland. who had nothing to do with any of the slavery shit. i see more racist black people  assuming all white people are evil based on our skin color. I've been called racist slurs many times like honkey and cracker. i say no more white guilt, i had nothing to do with that shit and black people growing up in this millennia have no right to complain about white people.



A lot of the anti-white sentiment that currently proliferates the ranks of Black America primarily originates from the liberal left's wide-ranging utilization of revisionist chronology and erroneous socioeconomic statistics to perpetuate the myth that black people in the US are held down by a clandestine cohort of intensely psychopathic white men. 

The white liberal's grip on the black psyche is profoundly herculean. Many black people absolutely refuse to even entertain an opposing viewpoint that seeks to make sense of modern issues that plague them. If you cite black crime and political corruption as a collectively keystone rationale behind the underdeveloped state of many inner city districts, a frighteningly hefty selection of them are likely to throw your points to the ground--regardless if they are cited with creditably validated sources or not--and immediately rope white people into the discussion for seemingly no reason at all whatsoever. Show them that black feminism and racial integration slaughtered Black America in just fifty or so years and they will stare at you with an expression of disbelief etched across their visages. 

Of course, whites aren't exactly exempt from critical castigation. We can spend all day talking about Lyndon B. Johnson's destructive welfare policies, the savagery of European colonialism and neocolonialism, the War on Drugs and its malign treatment of black men (and its hand in the political and economic turmoil that is currently afflicting Mexico), the destruction of affluent black communities by butthurt white southerners and northerners during the Jim Crow period, and the host of false rape allegations that were levied against black men during the 19th and 20th centuries. 

I used to engage heavily with the whole "pro-black" nonsense, but it didn't take long for me to comprehend just how batshit insane many black folks truly are. 

If you don't fall in line with the groupthink rhetoric that they religiously espouse, your black card is pretty much revoked.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> okay so name 3?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2G3lM2opf0 your full of shit just like anita


My point of saying it's subjective is that I can only give my own viewpoint but people will disagree and get their panties in a twist, just like you guys don't agree with how I'm saying The Witcher III has a race problem.

And no, I won't watch YouTube filth made my disgusting subhuman neckbeards.



Fallowfox said:


> 'Oh alright, do you play any important role in the plot of this story?'


Straights are in fiction all the time despite it not really playing in important role in the story, why do gay people have to play some big crucial part in the narrative?



Tao said:


> people should quit getting offended so much
> 
> especially by fictional things


No one's offended, mate, we're just discussing race and diversity in game. You don't have to be offended to point out that a game doesn't have a single person of color.



Artillery Spam said:


> anti-white


Go home to Stormfront.

Same goes for you, Clay, you're not welcome.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You should really stop this name dropping shit, especially for people who aren't even fuckinh posting. Chingow, pinchÃ© madrÃ©. This shit gets really really old. Petty insults and the while nine yards.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm not even sure whats going on in this thread anymore


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> I'm not even sure whats going on in this thread anymore


I posted an amusing example of a gaming journalist being chased out of Twitter for saying The Witcher III didn't have single person of color but instead of agreeing that no one deserves to be harassed for pointing out this one aspect of the game people started having glorious man-periods about it.

Like, no one has to agree with my point of view here but that people are so outraged is frankly a little bit silly.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Go home to Stormfront.
> 
> Same goes for you, Clay, you're not welcome.



Directing racism at whites is, by definition, *anti-white*. The waves of violence launched against South African Boers is *anti-white* violence. This isn't rocket science. 

But yeah, I spent 6 consecutive years of my life in the southern districts of Chicago and a solid decade in Detroit. My stepfather was the man who cooperated with my mother, by way of marriage and hence a mutual income, to raise me from childhood to adulthood. My stepfather, whom I consider my legitimate father due to his substantial impact on my life, is white. I try to emulate the moralistic character of my mother and my stepfather in my day-to-day operations, but I seem to fail on a consistent basis for some indeterminable reason. Maybe it's the genes. Who knows. 

At any rate, black kids gave me hell for having the audacity to walk to school with my white dad. The verbal abuse and ethnic expulsion that I suffered at their hands was instrumental in the gradual deterioration of the relationship that I had with him. I still hate myself to this day for falling in lockstep with their bullshit.

Please believe me when I say that many inner city black people, especially in democratically-ruled metropolitan locales, hold a robust grudge against the dominant demographic of the United States. They perceive the greater fiscal health of White America as some sort of harrowing injustice that needs to be promptly rectified. 

Many of them are jealous as sin of the successes of America's other racial and ethnic groups. They can't figure out why their schools are crumbling, they don't know why their sons and daughters are being murdered by psychopathic gang bangers, and they don't know why anything never gets done for them. When great minds like Thomas Sowell or Walter E. Williams attempt to offer a potential selection of answers for their dreadful questions, they're either ignored or decried as "sell outs" or viciously denounced as "coons" in spite of the fact that both Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams grew up in impoverished environments. 

Curiously enough, this same misconstrued outlook on the economical composition of America's diverse racial and ethnic groups finds little to no credence among those Afro-Americans that dwell within prosperous black neighborhoods or largely Afro-American townships, but they may echo the same exact sentiments of Afro-America's underclass in an effort to remain in close contact with their "roots" and to save face when presented with wary gazes from their ethnic peers. 

And just_ why_ aren't they angry at the white man for holding them down? *Because they actually have shit to enjoy and good schools to send their children to. There is no white man to hate for holding them down because the white man clearly failed to hold them down if their comparative successes are anything to go by. *

The liberal left only capitalizes on their ill-feelings for whites by assuring them that racism is the reason why they're getting their asses kicked. It keeps them poor and helps keep the Democrats in power. 

Sylox is an excellent example of an "upper-class" black person--and a Republican no less--that does not tow the line dolled out by Afro-America's "Cult of Victimology". He has no reason to intermingle with Afro-America's undertow because he has absolutely nothing in common with them save for a skin color and a shared racial heritage. The same, to an extent, applies to me. The only difference between Sylox and I is that I'm flat broke and my parents despite, being classified as "middle class" by the US' standards. are pretty much broke as well.

And no, I'm not some white nationalist or race realist sympathizer. It's quite evident that I dislike both.

And this isn't exactly a racial thing either, but more of a class issue. Poor white southerners have always disliked white northerners. _Even to this day, the north is richer than the south_.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Artillery, I gotta be honest and say I never really bother to read your posts because they're long and I often feel like I have better things to do so I'll settle with saying whites aren't oppressed.

As for The Witcher III or whatever, I'm not sure if anyone except maybe the book author himself can convince me at this point so how about we just agree to differ, alright? I didn't even mean to have a discussion here and just mentioned the game by passing, after all.

No need getting all pissy about it.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Artillery, I gotta be honest and say I never really bother to read your posts because they're long and I often feel like I have better things to do so I'll settle with saying whites aren't oppressed.



Oh my god.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> That's actually generally referred to as "equalism".



What an ugly word. 

You're all actually thinking of 'egalitarian', from the french 'egalitÃ©' for 'equality'. 

Type 'equalism' into wikipedia and it will ask you 'did you mean egalitarianism?'



Artillery Spam said:


> A lot of the anti-white sentiment that  currently proliferates the ranks of Black America primarily originates  from the liberal left's wide-ranging utilization of revisionist  chronology and erroneous socioeconomic statistics to perpetuate the myth  that black people in the US are held down by a clandestine cohort of  intensely psychopathic white men.
> 
> The white liberal's grip on the black psyche is profoundly herculean.  Many black people absolutely refuse to even entertain an opposing  viewpoint that seeks to make sense of modern issues that plague them. If  you cite black crime and political corruption as a collectively  keystone rationale behind the perpetual underdevelopment of many inner  city districts, a frighteningly hefty selection of them are likely to  throw your points to the ground--*irregardless* if they  are cited with creditably validated sources or not--and immediately rope  white people into the discussion for seemingly no reason at all  whatsoever. Show them that black feminism and racial integration  slaughtered Black America in just fifty or so years and they will stare  at you with an expression of disbelief etched across their visages.
> 
> ...



This is not a word either. :c


I agree with some of the sentiment though. Some users here, who aren't even black themselves, have endeavoured to force users who are black to change their views because they don't think they are being sympathetic enough towards other black people- which means they are hypocritical.

If you point out that this standard is actually just calling someone a race-traitor, you'll get really weird and self-righteous responses like 'not just a traitor to their own race, a traitor to all humanity'.

How about 'I don't like this view because I think it's incorrect for reasons x y and z,' rather than 

'but _other_ black people don't agree with it and may even think that view is prejudiced, I thought you were all meant to have some kind of hive mind!,'


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> Oh my god.


Whatevs. I haven't done my homework on racism in the US so I'm not gonna pretend like I know shit. But whites aren't oppressed.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Whatevs. I haven't done my homework on racism in the US so I'm not gonna pretend like I know shit. But whites aren't oppressed.



Whether or not you deem a group to be oppressed doesn't mean that racism can or cannot be directed against them. 

The Slavs very much were oppressed, but you thought they were tacitly racist for making a slavic game with slavic characters in it, because you thought they were part of a privileged white upper-class- who are contributing to 'white washing'.

Plenty of racism is *still* directed against people from Eastern Europe, even if you do insist on classifying them as 'privileged white'


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Whether or not you deem a group to be oppressed doesn't mean that racism can or cannot be directed against them.
> 
> The Slavs very much were oppressed, but you thought they were tacitly racist for making a slavic game with slavic characters in it, because you thought they were part of a privileged white upper-class- who are contributing to 'white washing'.
> 
> Plenty of racism is *still* directed against people from Eastern Europe, even if you do insist on classifying them as 'privileged white'


People can be racist against whites, but it's not as common as people make it out to be. The reason I never listen to anyone saying "anti-white" is because people who say that pretty much never mean actual anti-whites like the Black Panther or Nation of Islam.

But fuck it, let's agree to differ, I'm done.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> This is not a word either. :c



?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> People can be racist against whites, but it's not as common as people make it out to be. The reason I never listen to anyone saying "anti-white" is because people who say that pretty much never mean actual anti-whites like the Black Panther or Nation of Islam.
> 
> But fuck it, *let's agree to differ,* I'm done.



I don't agree to differ. If you're done, you can leave of your own accord; I don't have to 'release you' by agreeing to differ. 

I think you're exercising an uncomfortable standard that, if you perceive someone as being in a majority, then you can safely ignore any comments they have about race, instead of investigating and redressing them. 

One would suspect that mentality would be harmless enough, but unfortunately it isn't. In Rotherham systematic child abuse that specifically targeted young white girls was ignored by police for 16 years, because they didn't want to 'provide oxygen to racism'. ~1400 victims were molested, raped, drugged, beaten and trafficked into the illegal sex industry. 

All because the police themselves thought that, when those girls' parents suggested that they had been targeted because of their race, the police dismissed the allegations as white supremacy and actually didn't even investigate whether any rape had taken place, let alone whether it was racially incited.



Artillery Spam said:


> ?



Regardless means 'without regard to' 

Irregardless would mean 'without without regard to'

Or more simply 'with regard to'.

Irregardless is like saying 'he refused undefiantly'.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I don't agree to differ. If you're done, you can leave of your own accord; I don't have to 'release you' by agreeing to differ.
> 
> I think you're exercising an uncomfortable standard that, if you perceive someone as being in a majority, then you can safely ignore any comments they have about race, instead of investigating and redressing them.
> 
> ...


Well, now you're trying to drag me into something completely unrelated but I suppose that's a billion times better than what this thread was originally about.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I don't agree to differ. If you're done, you can leave of your own accord; I don't have to 'release you' by agreeing to differ.
> 
> I think you're exercising an uncomfortable standard that, if you perceive someone as being in a majority, then you can safely ignore any comments they have about race, instead of investigating and redressing them.
> 
> ...



Didn't see the bolded word. 

Yeah, that's a typo.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> My point of saying it's subjective is that I can only give my own viewpoint but people will disagree and get their panties in a twist, just like you guys don't agree with how I'm saying The Witcher III has a race problem.  And no, I won't watch YouTube filth made my disgusting subhuman neckbeards.


  ok so you cant back it up? your wrong then and your claims are hollow.  seriously? just because its backing up my claim and not yours its made by neckbeards? your a prejudging fool who doesn't know shit about what she talks about.  the video is anita not being able to come up with even one sexist game example on live tv. as well as her stating she doesn't like games on video footage. not some cobbled together propaganda video like most feminist naysayers.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ok so you cant back it up? your wrong then and your claims are hollow.  seriously? just because its backing up my claim and not yours its made by neckbeards? your a prejudging fool who doesn't know shit about what she talks about.  the video is anita not being able to come up with even one sexist game example on live tv. as well as her stating she doesn't like games on video footage. not some cobbled together propaganda video like most feminist naysayers.





If you dismissed someone's ideas because of how you imagined they would look, Kellie would probably call you a bigot. 

When Kellie does it, she's a righteous hero of the people.


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## Astrium (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> What an ugly word.
> 
> You're all actually thinking of 'egalitarian', from the french 'egalitÃ©' for 'equality'.
> 
> Type 'equalism' into wikipedia and it will ask you 'did you mean egalitarianism?'



Oh, I know what the actual word is. But the vast majority of people today seem to be referring to it as "equalism" these days for some fucking reason, so I just went with that name. Either way, it's not the same thing as humanism.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Oh, I know what the actual word is. *But the vast majority of people today seem to be referring to it as "equalism"* these days for some fucking reason, so I just went with that name. Either way, it's not the same thing as humanism.



Because they're borderline illiterate and can't be bothered to use dictionaries, even though computers have made them more available than ever. 

In my view egalitarianism is an important part of humanism. I doubt you'd come across anybody who describes them-self as a humanist who opposed egalitarian principles.


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## Willow (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I really don't have time to explain the finer details of this but there is a difference between racism and oppression. White people can experience racism but at least in America, white people don't experience oppression the same way people of color do. :/


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## Astrium (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Because they're borderline illiterate and can't be bothered to use dictionaries, even though computers have made them more available than ever.
> 
> In my view egalitarianism is an important part of humanism. I doubt you'd come across anybody who describes them-self as a humanist who opposed egalitarian principles.



That's a good point, although humanism is still distinct from egalitarianism. Although humanism incorporates egalitarian principles, they are still two distinct philosophies. Therefore, the term Shio should have used in that conext was "egalitarian" instead of "humanist". I agree that "equalism" does sound ugly. It seems to me like it would be more of an extreme philosophy, something resembling the "equality" on display in the Kurt Vonnegut story _Harrison Bergeron_.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ok so you cant back it up? your wrong then and your claims are hollow.  seriously? just because its backing up my claim and not yours its made by neckbeards? your a prejudging fool who doesn't know shit about what she talks about.  the video is anita not being able to come up with even one sexist game example on live tv. as well as her stating she doesn't like games on video footage. not some cobbled together propaganda video like most feminist naysayers.


Well, if you want me to mention some examples so badly...

One dude already mentioned Rapelay, so that's one.

Then we have Metroid: Other M, where Samus is so goddamn submissive toward her former commander and love interest(?) Adam Malkovich, sacrificing her free will so she won't use certain weapons and powers without Adam's approval. Even when she's in a goddamn lava cave where her health drains because of the heat she doesn't use the goddamn varia suit until Adam says so. SHE IS RISKING HER LIFE BECAUSE SHE DID NOT GET APPROVAL FROM HER PRECIOUS SENPAI. So much for her being independent and shit.

And then there's Duke Nukem 3D (or pretty much the whole Duke series) which has a bunch of naked for no other reasons other than naked ladies to evoke some erections from the players. Some some of these "babes" are immobilized in this weird alien goo and beg Duke to kill them, and if the play does it Duke just goes with a poorly delivered "dammit". But it's quite obvious he doesn't actually care about their well-being, he just wants chicks to fuck. This is reinforced by that Duke Nukem Forever trailer where a narrator talks about the alien invasion and says the Aliens did one fatal mistake; they shouldn't have taken the women. Because Duke wants women to fuck. And Duke Nukem Forever starts with a flashback/intro and after a boss fight you see that Duke was simply playing a game while having a blowjob, because that's all women are good for in a Duke game.

I've played games for 20 years so I have more examples if I want to, but I gave you three, so happy now? You don't have to agree with me but I did what you asked.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> I really don't have time to explain the finer details of this but there is a difference between racism and oppression. White people can experience racism but at least in America, white people don't experience oppression the same way people of color do. :/



The going assumption, made by Americans and Western Europeans keen to get the approval of their American friends, seems to be that the same social tendencies and historical oppression existed the world over, when they just didn't. 
That's why you end up with people from the west accusing Poles of being oppressors for not making games with American-style demographics, because you know, Polish people look similar to White Americans.




Kellie Gator said:


> Well, if you want me to mention some examples so badly...
> 
> One dude already mentioned Rapelay, so that's one.
> 
> ...



Duke Nukem is actually a joke. People are _meant_ to laugh about how misogynistic he is. There's even a mini-game in which you draw penises with the analogue stick. 

But you know, I'm sure of mice and men is racist because it includes characters who use the word Nigger pejoratively.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Duke Nukem is actually a joke. People are _meant_ to laugh about how misogynistic he is. There's even a mini-game in which you draw penises with the analogue stick.
> 
> But you know, I'm sure of mice and men is racist because it includes characters who use the word Nigger pejoratively.


I know Duke Nukem's clearly a joke but the way the humor's framed you're clearly supposed to laugh with him, not at him. There's a difference.

A poorly executed parody, in my opinion.


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## ShioBear (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, if you want me to mention some examples so badly...  One dude already mentioned Rapelay, so that's one.  Then we have Metroid: Other M, where Samus is so goddamn submissive toward her former commander and love interest(?) Adam Malkovich, sacrificing her free will so she won't use certain weapons and powers without Adam's approval. Even when she's in a goddamn lava cave where her health drains because of the heat she doesn't use the goddamn varia suit until Adam says so. SHE IS RISKING HER LIFE BECAUSE SHE DID NOT GET APPROVAL FROM HER PRECIOUS SENPAI. So much for her being independent and shit.  And then there's Duke Nukem 3D (or pretty much the whole Duke series) which has a bunch of naked for no other reasons other than naked ladies to evoke some erections from the players. Some some of these "babes" are immobilized in this weird alien goo and beg Duke to kill them, and if the play does it Duke just goes with a poorly delivered "dammit". But it's quite obvious he doesn't actually care about their well-being, he just wants chicks to fuck. This is reinforced by that Duke Nukem Forever trailer where a narrator talks about the alien invasion and says the Aliens did one fatal mistake; they shouldn't have taken the women. Because Duke wants women to fuck. And Duke Nukem Forever starts with a flashback/intro and after a boss fight you see that Duke was simply playing a game while having a blowjob, because that's all women are good for in a Duke game.  I've played games for 20 years so I have more examples if I want to, but I gave you three, so happy now? You don't have to agree with me but I did what you asked.


  k for one rapelay isnt really a game meant for anyone outside the freaks who made it and a few sick people, its not a mass produced games and isn't something present in the general public ffs i had to look it up. i sure there are plenty of anti male hate games if i looked but i know they don't matter and aren't a real part of the gaming world.   in other m samus is part of a squad, a team. she is not exempt from following orders, she is an equal not a superior. she has to follow the captains orders like everyone else. just because she is a woman does not men she is oppressed, is every woman in the army oppressed? no they are following orders just like the men. and samus while following orders still defeats the evil single handedly.  on duke nukem.  as fallow stated its satire.... its a joke. your supposed to laugh at him. lol the reason you feminists find misogyny everywhere isnt because is present. its because your constantly looking for it in everything like its easter all year and your on an egg hunt.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I know Duke Nukem's clearly a joke but the way the humor's framed you're clearly supposed to laugh with him, not at him. There's a difference.
> 
> A poorly executed parody, in my opinion.



Well I think pepe-le-pew, the looney-tune skunk, is an example of a misogynist character who molests and harasses women. 
People are meant to laugh with Pepe, not against him, so I think there is a risk that looney-tunes contributes to rape culture and the systematic oppression of women by Europe's skunky majority. 


[I actually think pepe is a sexy thang and I think your avatar is super-cute, but I hope you can see why I'm saying that]


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> k for one rapelay isnt really a game meant for anyone outside the freaks who made it and a few sick people, its not a mass produced games and isn't something present in the general public ffs i had to look it up. i sure there are plenty of anti male hate games if i looked but i know they don't matter and aren't a real part of the gaming world.   in other m samus is part of a squad, a team. she is not exempt from following orders, she is an equal not a superior. she has to follow the captains orders like everyone else. just because she is a woman does not men she is oppressed, is every woman in the army oppressed? no they are following orders just like the men. and samus while following orders still defeats the evil single handedly.  on duke nukem.  as fallow stated its satire.... its a joke. your supposed to laugh at him. lol the reason you feminists find misogyny everywhere isnt because is present. its because your constantly looking for it in everything like its easter all year and your on an egg hunt.


You wanted me to mention three video games, I gave you three but now you say one of them doesn't count because not a lot of people play it. Rofl. If it's made, sold and available it counts.

As for Other M, she's always been a bounty hunter so it doesn't really make a lot of sense for her to follow orders from a commanding officer and I'm not sure how you explain the part where all the other soldiers were allowed to use ice guns on a boss but not Samus. She's always been independent, even in Metroid Fusion where she talked to an Adam Malkovich A.I. she wasn't bending over to him and asking for permission to use the super bombs or whatever.

As for Duke Nukem I refer you to my last post.



Fallowfox said:


> Well I think pepe-le-pew, the looney-tune skunk, is an example of a misogynist character who molests and harasses women.
> People are meant to laugh with Pepe, not against him, so I think there is a risk that looney-tunes contributes to rape culture and the systematic oppression of women by Europe's skunky majority.
> 
> 
> [I actually think pepe is a sexy thang and I think your avatar is super-cute, but I hope you can see why I'm saying that]


I get ya. It's been a while since I saw those cartoons so I might need to keep myself updated.

MAYBE a bit sexist but honestly, like I said, sexist =/= bad. I think those cartoons are pretty damned funny. <3

Also, I suppose we can at least acknowledge that in the cartoons you're meant to laugh at his completely oblivious nature and how he completely fails to understand that the cat DOES NOT WANT. He's an idiot, basically. But a charming one.~


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## Fallowfox (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Don't update it; it's fab. D:


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Don't update it; it's fab. D:


Nah, I like my cartoon skunk just the way he is, changing it would sorta kill the core of the character. It'd be like the cookie monster trying to promote healthy eating, which I'm sure he actually has once or twice before...


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## Machine (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Sarkeesian is a spiteful and annoying person.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Machine said:


> Sarkeesian is a spiteful and annoying person.


Sounds like a lot of FAF members so she'd be right at home here!


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## Naesaki (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Sounds like a lot of FAF members so she'd be right at home here!



If she ever posted here, it would raise a lot of questions, or answer many *ponder* xD


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## Verin Asper (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Machine said:


> Sarkeesian is a spiteful and annoying person.


like how some folks are on this forum and any other forum?


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## Naesaki (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Verin Asper said:


> like how some folks are on this forum and any other forum?



Life in a nutshell : "We can't get on with everyone, not everyone will like you"


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## Verin Asper (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Life in a nutshell : "We can't get on with everyone, not everyone will like you"


true, as my grandma say "You'll waste time or destroy yourself to make sure everyone is fine with you. Take rivals, let folks hate you as its probably healthier that way"


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## Astrium (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Just gonna leave this here and let you all fight about it...


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## Naesaki (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Just gonna leave this here and let you all fight about it...



I read all of it and this is my reaction. http://i.imgur.com/9Rk8KCR.jpg


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## ShioBear (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Just gonna leave this here and let you all fight about it...


  uhhg really?


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Just gonna leave this here and let you all fight about it...



That stopped too early, I wanted to see what happened next.


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## Volkodav (Jul 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Okay so here we go
I'm going to make a post about Witcher 3 from the point of view of someone who has actually seen a playthrough of the game, who has done research on the game, and who has talked to Polish people about it.

*Developing Team*
First and foremost, Witcher 3 ("Wiedzmin 3: Dziki Gon" -- POLISH) is developed by Polish developing team in Poland. All Poles, all white guys. Why no blacks? Why no Indians? Because blacks and Indians don't fucking live in Poland, this is an indesputable FACT.
I talked to a Polish friend about this and he says that he's never even SEEN a black person in real life, for his ENTIRE life.
*Indesputable fact:* "Other" ethnic minorities make up less than ~1% of the entire population of Poland: http://www.indexmundi.com/poland/demographics_profile.html
Everyone on this team speaks Polish and so the game was voiced and acted out entirely in Polish, this is why the characters mouths will be moving inaccurately when the character is speaking English. It was NOT recorded in English, and the characters all had Polish accents.
In order to make it English, they had to hire English voice actors, and this is where we get the varities in accent in the game. The accents are mostly from the UK/Ireland/Scotland, and various European accents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIP2bv4vjIE

*History*
The entire game is based on Slavic history. From the style of buildings, to the style of dress (check out "Dandelion": www.witcher.wikia.com/wiki/File:Dandelion.jpg), to the coat of arms and shields and even the game music. There is nothing Afro-centric about this game whatsoever.
Everyone wears chainmail and armour and fights with swords, for fuck sakes.
http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wit....png?version=c6fee0ecced2427a22ccc5b2032a21f2
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/1/15/Geralt_of_Rivia_transparant.png
http://download.gamezone.com/upload...Nilfgaardian_Armor_and_Elite_Crossbow_Set.JPG
Look at this guy's fucking sleeves. Jesus.

*Buildings*
All buildings are heavily European inspired. On the outskirts of towns you'll see peasant settlements with thatched roofs. In the cities you'll see German/Polish inspired houses and cobblestone roads.
http://4d663a369f9f03c3c61e-870e777...dn.com/images/9Oe_uY0ImXUn.878x0.Z-Z96KYq.jpg
https://cms-images.idgesg.net/images/article/2014/06/the_witcher_3_novigrad-100311829-orig.jpg

*Kingdoms*
The kingdoms have Euro-centric shields and coat of arms, a few of the most notable being:
Temeria - http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/a/a3/COA_Temeria4.png
The lion on the Temeria coat of arms is in the "Passant" attitude pose.
These poses are from European history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_(heraldry)#Passant

Redania - http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/3/38/Kingdom_of_Redania_coa_by_smiki55.png
The white eagle on the Redenia coat of arms is very clearly inspired by the Polish coat of arms, that also includes a white eagle on a red background, wearing a crown.
http://www.loeser.us/flags/images/poland/coat_of_arms/ludwik_wegierski_2.jpg
All the way down to the little stylized feathers on the inside of the wing.

Cintra - http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/c/c8/COA_Cintra.png
Again, we see that classic pose, this time being Passant Guardant. 

Aedirn - http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/e/ec/Kingdom_of_Aedirn_coa_by_smiki55.png
The shield of Aedirn has the same colours as the German flag. I'd wager a guess and say that it was inspired by the German shield.

Lyria & Rivia - http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/6/66/COA_Lyria.png
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/7/7f/COA_Lyria_Rivia2.png
These are the most damning of them all, in my humble opinion. I've included two variations, the first one resembling the German Bundesadler, or German coat of arms: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ny.svg/2000px-Coat_of_arms_of_Germany.svg.png
On the second shield, we see the Germany-inspired eagle in addition to the Passant Guardant lion pose in the background.

Kaedwen - http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kingdom_of_Kaedwen_coa_by_smiki55.png
Here's another rampant pose, this time being a unicorn -- which has origins in Scottish folklore.

Kovir & Poviss - http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/5/52/COA_Kovir_Poviss_old.png
On this one, we see a combination of the Polish white eagle and the Scottish rampant unicorn.

Zerrikania - http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/b/b1/Hrb_unof_Zerrikania.png
The dragon (wyvern) here greatly resembles the ones on the coat of arms of the Viscounts of Arbuthnott, which is Scottish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_of_Arbuthnott

Skellige - http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/5/5a/Hrb_unof_Skellige.png
The shield for the Skellige Islands is coloured in the same style as the Irish flag, and prominently displays a European boar in the center.
(Which.. weirdly enough!!!! Is actually common on Scottish and European crests!!!)

Now that that's out of the way... let's discuss..

*Language*
The developers themselves have outright stated that the game's language isn't an actual one, but is a made-up language:
_"created a special language for the series, called the Elder Speech. It is based on English, French, Welsh, Irish, Latin and other languages. One of the most important dialects is the one from the Skellige islands."_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witcher#Language

*Timeline*
The Witcher goes back before TW3, and was actually in book form (and TV form) at one point. That being said, nothing in the game is present-day and is clearly set in medieval times: http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

*Homosexuality*
I know of at least two instances of homosexuality in Witcher 3. 
The first example being one where you need to ask for help from a hunter in finding where a Griffin lives. He tells you the story of why he lives in the middle of nowhere: the lord of White Orchard's stablehand catches his son with "the hunter" when they were kids. He goes and tells the lord, who chases "the hunter" away from the city, and his son hangs himself.
Very early on we're shown the lack of tolerance in the Witcher world.
The second instances is of a man who owns a male sex slave -- another example of how tolerant and kind people were to another back then.

*Discrimination*
There are many instances of discrimination in this game. The most apparent one is the hatred of witchers (who aren't really people, they're demons I think). In the game you'll come across people who shout at Geralt, threaten him, and even try to fight him for being a "freak". Other species like elves and dwarves are discriminated against in the game, with a dwarve's iron-working shop being burned down because some drunk prick thought he was a "freak". My theory is that if blacks were in this game, they'd be treated like absolute shit. The dwarves, elves, and witchers already get enough shit as-is, but can you imagine if random black people were shoved into the game, filled with slavic whites back in medieval times?
Please.


Anyways so here you go. If you read this and still question why they didn't shove a token black character into the game, there's nothing I can do to change your mind. Shoving a token black character into a game set in European/Scandinavian slavic times makes absolutely no sense. You don't see white people crying about there being no whites in Okami, do you? Like Fallow said, inserting token characters into games/movies/shows is patronizing as hell.
To assume that every character in a videogame or movie is straight until being told otherwise is called erasure, you're erasing homosexuality. Dumbledore in HP was gay but you never knew that until the end. That is what most homosexuality is like, deal with it.

People (like Anita) who don't even play or like games are the first ones to criticise them. All it takes is someone like me who has done their research to make them look like an idiot with five minutes of typing.
Do y'all see how stupid Anita is now? Do you understand why we hate that people like her are determining the course of game journalism? This is where game journalists are getting their info from -- from people like Anita who do no research.

Absolutely ridiculous.


Meanwhile, here's Breanna Wu attempting to stir up drama so she can delete this later and then cry "sexism" when she receives backlash for posting a picture that implies cutting off the dicks of men.
https://twitter.com/spacekatgal/status/507685379789844480
How much $$ does anyone want to bet on her getting backlash, deleting this comment, and then claiming that "trolls" are attacking her out of nowhere?
If we really wanna go down this route, how come there are no POC in Breanna Wu's game?
Why are they all white women?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/betaboston-static-content/uploads/2014/10/SpaceKat.jpg


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## Naesaki (Jul 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I read all of what you wrote and I do agree and with what you are saying but not to rain on your parade but that twitter bit you pulled up from Breanna Wu, its from September 2014 

Also the whole discussion kind of stopped a while ago :s


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## Volkodav (Jul 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I read all of what you wrote and I do agree and with what you are saying but not to rain on your parade but that twitter bit you pulled up from Breanna Wu, its from September 2014
> 
> Also the whole discussion kind of stopped a while ago :s



Does it really matter?
She has a history of staging her own harassment in order to blame it on "gamergate". This is where game journalists are getting their information, and this kind of shit is why we (gamergate) believe that her and people like her are poisoning the gaming industry.


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## Naesaki (Jul 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Does it really matter?
> She has a history of staging her own harassment in order to blame it on "gamergate". This is where game journalists are getting their information, and this kind of shit is why we (gamergate) believe that her and people like her are poisoning the gaming industry.



On the plus side its looks like no one had enough fucks to give during that particular shit storm attempt from her.


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## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I read all of what you wrote and I do agree and with what you are saying but not to rain on your parade but that twitter bit you pulled up from Breanna Wu, its from September 2014   Also the whole discussion kind of stopped a while ago :s


 ohh its not over i was sleeping


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## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ohh its not over i was sleeping



I was temp-banned but browsing the forums the other day and felt that I knew enough about this subject to make a post on it when I returned.
I know more than Anita Sarkeesian does about this game and I've never played it myself. Lelelelel


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## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

lol if you even like games you know more about any game


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm too jumpy to play games, my anxiety shoots right up and I just can't play them. (Even Minecraft is too much for me to play myself, though I do like things like Pokemon, Harvest Moon, etc)
However, this doesn't stop me from educating myself on games. I've never picked up a controller or had any of the Fallout games on my computer, but I've been watching my brother play them for years, giving him advice, telling him what to do and where to go, I've been watching people play the various FO games for many years.
I don't need to have picked up a controller to be able to tell you anything you could possibly want to know about Fallout. I guess you could say that I "play vicariously" through other people. 

A few of my other favourite games are Skyrim, Witcher, Arma 3: Life (it's a mod), Far Cry, Red Dead Redemption (and the zombie version), War Thunder, Five Nights At Freddy's, The Stomping Land (RIP), The Forest, and Day-Z.



*You do not need to play games yourself to educate yourself*

The problem with people like Anita is that she DOESN'T play games (probably doesn't watch others play games either), doesn't LIKE games (which already predisposes her to a negative attitude towards the game, and prevents her from looking at it with an open mind), and gets all of her information from OTHER SJW who don't play or like the games either.

(One of the funniest things I've seen is when Anita said "nice to see Lara Croft wearing winter clothing in winter scenes". If she did any research beforehand she'd know that Lara Croft wearing winter coats is... nothing new.)


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> (One of the funniest things I've seen is when Anita said "nice to see Lara Croft wearing winter clothing in winter scenes". If she did any research beforehand she'd know that Lara Croft wearing winter coats is... nothing new.)


 XD omg i know lol. she has ad the winter coat in almost every game. maybe if she actually liked or played games she might save herself the embarrassment


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The saddest part is that all she had to do is just watch videos of the old games. She seems to base all of her criticisms off of what she sees in game trailers, reviews by other feminists, or whatever the hell her boyfriend commands her to say.


(Oh yeah, another funny one.
She complained that she liked the crafting system in FO4 but wishes that it had "less to do with making things to kill"
In a photo of her with a bunch of game cases, she has FO3.... but has she ever played it?
I don't think so. The entire FO saga is about killing to survive)


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The saddest part is that all she had to do is just watch videos of the old games. She seems to base all of her criticisms off of what she sees in game trailers, reviews by other feminists, or whatever the hell her boyfriend commands her to say.   (Oh yeah, another funny one. She complained that she liked the crafting system in FO4 but wishes that it had "less to do with making things to kill" In a photo of her with a bunch of game cases, she has FO3.... but has she ever played it? I don't think so. The entire FO saga is about killing to survive)


  its like saying jason kills to much in the friday the 13th movies -.-  i bet she just took a picture with someone elses games


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The problem with people like Anita is that she DOESN'T play games (probably doesn't watch others play games either), doesn't LIKE games (which already predisposes her to a negative attitude towards the game, and prevents her from looking at it with an open mind), and gets all of her information from OTHER SJW who don't play or like the games either.
> 
> (One of the funniest things I've seen is when Anita said "nice to see Lara Croft wearing winter clothing in winter scenes". If she did any research beforehand she'd know that Lara Croft wearing winter coats is... nothing new.)


So where did she get all the footage from her research to make videos with? And how many times has she actually said she doesn't like video games aside from that one time even though she's said she's changed her mind?

Just curious. And yeah, she did derp on Tomb Raider, we all make mistakes.

EDIT:
Actually, fuck it, it seems all you have to back up the claim that she doesn't play the games are assumptions and how it "seems" like she doesn't play the games.

Also, she could've played Fallout 3 and still have the same opinion on Fallout 4. It's been a while since I played Fallout so I will say that maybe she misses the point that you can choose the way you play the games. But don't quote me on that... unless you're responding to this post, that is. :V


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> So where did she get all the footage from her research to make videos with? And how many times has she actually said she doesn't like video games aside from that one time even though she's said she's changed her mind?  Just curious. And yeah, she did derp on Tomb Raider, we all make mistakes.  EDIT: Actually, fuck it, it seems all you have to back up the claim that she doesn't play the games are assumptions and how it "seems" like she doesn't play the games.  Also, she could've played Fallout 3 and still have the same opinion on Fallout 4. It's been a while since I played Fallout so I will say that maybe she misses the point that you can choose the way you play the games. But don't quote me on that... unless you're responding to this post, that is. :V


  she actually stole video footage and screenshots from other youtubers http://victorsopinion.blogspot.be/2013/07/anitas-sources.html


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> she actually stole video footage and screenshots from other youtubers


And art from artists without their permission....


I wouldn't be surprised if her boyfriend is the one who steals the clips. Seems like she's just his mouthpiece and it would explain why she goes Full McIntosh every once in a while.

You never go full McIntosh!

I also noticed that she had Witcher 2 in her stack of games. No complaints there?????
How could she have played Witcher 2 and not understood the game's historical background???


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

yeah  XD people who actually back her up have to close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU" till the reasonable people give up and move on.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> she actually stole video footage and screenshots from other youtubers http://victorsopinion.blogspot.be/2013/07/anitas-sources.html


I normally ignore blogs but let's say it's possible she took footage and fanart. I've said I'm a skeptic so I think this is possible, and unfortunate if true.

But this doesn't automatically mean she never played the games she talked About. And it's wether she actually PLAYED them or not that's important. So far people have only been able to provide guesses or wild theories that she didn't play them. But no proof of wether she did or not.

The link has interesting information but doesn't tell the whole story. There's more to be told.



ShioBear said:


> yeah XD people who actually back her up have to close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU" till the reasonable people give up and move on.


You guys are the same, especially about the proven abuse and harassment she faces. :I



Volkodav said:


> I also noticed that she had Witcher 2 in her stack of games. No complaints there?????
> How could she have played Witcher 2 and not understood the game's historical background???


Did she ever complain about The Witcher's race problem?

And just because she can complain doesn't mean she's obligated to just to prove your point. She is, after all, going through a fuckton of games for her research. The stack's pretty big, after all.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> You guys are the same, especially about the proven abuse and harassment she faces. :I


  sure  proven XD  of coarse its been proven if a feminist says it right :V


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Seriously....guys... https://thetipsyrunner.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/are-you-done-gif.gif


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Seriously....guys... https://thetipsyrunner.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/are-you-done-gif.gif



If you dislike this topic, why look at the thread?


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Its not the topic I dislike. Its seeing you all talk in circles, reaching no significant conclusion thats stupid. At first it was amusing seeing an insane, almost idiotic cycle like this..now its just getting ridiculous


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Its not the topic I dislike. Its seeing you all talk in circles, reaching no significant conclusion thats stupid. At first it was amusing seeing an insane, almost idiotic cycle like this..now its just getting ridiculous



I like discussing this topic. You are free to not watch us do this if you don't like it.


----------



## Kinharia (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

People actually pay attention to Anita? I thought she was just there for the laughs?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kinharia said:


> People actually pay attention to Anita? I thought she was just there for the laughs?



Unfortunately, yes. She's scammed thousands of dollars from people who watch her videos, who donated to her Kickstarter to help her get better recording equipment for "higher quality videos".... her videos have not changed quality.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> sure  proven XD  of coarse its been proven if a feminist says it right :V


Not feminists. The media. Credible journalists. Worldwide.

This is why I keep comparing you guys to neo-nazis, the odds are against you in your claims.



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Its not the topic I dislike. Its seeing you all talk in circles, reaching no significant conclusion thats stupid. At first it was amusing seeing an insane, almost idiotic cycle like this..now its just getting ridiculous


Actually, you're right, I'm a retard for trying to discuss this with a guy who's proudly admitted he refuses to budge on the subject of feminism. Of course we're going around in circles.

In before accusations of slander. :V



Volkodav said:


> Unfortunately, yes. She's scammed thousands of dollars from people who watch her videos, who donated to her Kickstarter to help her get better recording equipment for "higher quality videos".... her videos have not changed quality.


Shouldn't you leave it to those who donated wether they consider it to be a scam or not? And she clearly has a lot of work to do, the bigger the funding a project has, the longer it takes, usually.

And the videos haven't changed quality? That's entirely subjective, mate. Personally I think she's improved but like I said, subjective. I won't state her improved quality as if it's fact. Because it's not. It's simply my opinion.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

As one skeptic to another, what makes you accept the media narrative at face value?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> As one skeptic to another, what makes you accept the media narrative at face value?


Well, I don't necessarily do that automatically in all cases but usually you can trust sources like the New York Times or other news sites (including non-gaming sites) more than your average tumblr, reddit or blogspot blog.

I know I am stubborn, but I try to be open-minded. Heck, maybe Anita didn't record the footage, but that might be because she didn't have any recording equipment, as opposed to her not even playing the games. Because she's got a lot of games to play and research. It'd be kinda dumb if true, but possible.

Or she may not have played the games. But I don't feel comfortable with saying yes to either idea until some damning evidence has been provided. But I've seen every single video she's made so for now I'll take her word on having played the games until someone manages to disprove it with hard evidence from credible sources.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Actually, you're right, I'm a retard for trying to discuss this with a guy who's proudly admitted he refuses to budge on the subject of feminism. Of course we're going around in circles.
> 
> In before accusations of slander. :V


i hope your not talking about me. for one thing im only considered a "guy" to you because i oppose modern feminism and its nonsense, and because im unfortunate enough to be born a fugly manly looking freak. im genderqueer leaning more toward the female  side hun. frankly its hurtful.
second, i was a feminist. i was a feminist and after much involvement in an increasingly hateful movement, and further researching the claims it makes, then deciding to denounce the hateful feminazi movement. egalitarian is the true equality movement.  

furthermore you denounce my claim without citations of your own, you claim to be skeptical when my claims are on the table but you side with anita without question.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> i hope your not talking about me. for one thing im only considered a "guy" to you because i oppose modern feminism and its nonsense, and because im unfortunate enough to be born a fugly manly looking freak. im genderqueer leaning more toward the female  side hun. frankly its hurtful.
> second, i was a feminist. i was a feminist and after much involvement in an increasingly hateful movement, and further researching the claims it makes, then deciding to denounce the hateful feminazi movement. egalitarian is the true equality movement.
> 
> furthermore you denounce my claim without citations of your own, you claim to be skeptical when my claims are on the table but you side with anita without question.


I know you're genderqueer and wasn't referring to you. Sorry for making it seem like I did, I wouldn't go so low I'd misgender someone just for having a different opinion than me.

I side with Anita, yes, but while it may not seem like it I refuse to believe anything on the net 100%. However, the burden of proof is on the other side, their claims of scams, fabricating comments or whatever are weak because they do not have the skill or the resources to collect data like the media has, with real journalists and proper research. I can't take claims from tumblr, reddit or blogspot blogs seriously.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

normally id have a rebuttal but i haven't slept  in 24 hours, i had 2 cars filled with thugs park in front of my house for 3 hours while everyone is gone on vaycay, im hopped up on 12 cans of mountain dew with 54 mg of caffeine a can, im wielding an unstrung electric guitar by the neck and its 5 am...... yeaaaaaa dont care right now


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> normally id have a rebuttal but i haven't slept  in 24 hours, i had 2 cars filled with thugs park in front of my house for 3 hours while everyone is gone on vaycay, im hopped up on 12 cans of mountain dew with 54 mg of caffeine a can, im wielding an unstrung electric guitar by the neck and its 5 am...... yeaaaaaa dont care right now


12 cans of Mountain Dew? Sweet jesus, see a doctor. D:


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> 12 cans of Mountain Dew? Sweet jesus, see a doctor. D:



I think one can of mountain dew is like 40% of your daily sugar intake? not to mention the sheer amount of caffeine..............

Still can't be worse than my friend who did shots of highly concentrated coffee, to say he was stuck on the toilet in sheer agony for 4 hours is putting it mildly.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

"Who run the world? Girls"

LOL stop, women don't run shit.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> "Who run the world? Girls"
> 
> LOL stop, women don't run shit.


Please don't say that, I can only handle so many MRAs and tumblr/reddit links to "disprove" that claim in one day. :V


----------



## Calemeyr (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> i hope your not talking about me. for one thing im only considered a "guy" to you because i oppose modern feminism and its nonsense, and because im unfortunate enough to be born a fugly manly looking freak. im genderqueer leaning more toward the female  side hun. frankly its hurtful.
> second, i was a feminist. i was a feminist and after much involvement in an increasingly hateful movement, and further researching the claims it makes, then deciding to denounce the hateful feminazi movement. egalitarian is the true equality movement.
> 
> furthermore you denounce my claim without citations of your own, you claim to be skeptical when my claims are on the table but you side with anita without question.


You need to spend less time near liberal arts/humanities people it looks like. They are completely lost and have succumbed to the stupidity of postmodernism. That's where the type of feminists we all hate come from.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Please don't say that, I can only handle so many MRAs and tumblr/reddit links to "disprove" that claim in one day. :V



I was being sarcastic.


----------



## BloobewwyBunny (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm kinda lost on this topic but i'll try and speak my mind of what i feel is relevant. 

In all honesty, where the hell did all this random feminism start anyway? Being a guy and all, I always found the females in video games to be the best lead characters, or side characters.

Like good ole' Lara croft, or badass Claire Redfield, Jill Valentine, Sakura/Cammy/Chun Li from street fighter, Faith from mirrors edge, Ellie from Last of us. The list keeps going on hehe. 

But i don't see what is so offensive about it. I mean sure, there's typical prostitutes and such in most sandbox games *which is what the common complaint is on* with the freedom to do what you want... Which in feminists eyes would be to *Helplessly slaughter women lol* Then again there's prostitutes in movies, and tons of women being killed as well.. Yet i barely hear anything negative from feminists regarding movies. 

Perhaps it's the social media *news* that brought this up to such a degree, to the point where it's almost *too concerned* for it's own good. 

Dunno, in my opinion there needs to be more females in gaming. At least as badass helpers, or lead characters. Not just a set of tits. I sooooo hate that. Like stop making them slutty and funny lol, give em a purpose. Getting tired of the common *Me and my muscles, and muscly squad will work TOGETHER with our MUSCLES and sexy ever so shiny guns and one liners... To save the universe from this massive terrorist threat of all muscle... That is... Muscly.... "Looks into the sky with the sun shining on his shiny armor and eyepatch, rockets and explosions behind him"*

Lol dunno correct me if i'm wrong, but i never really saw any negatives when it comes to feminism in gaming. Besides fanservice 

When i do i'll say something. Till then nope.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I know you're genderqueer and wasn't referring to you. Sorry for making it seem like I did, I wouldn't go so low I'd misgender someone just for having a different opinion than me.
> 
> I side with Anita, yes, but while it may not seem like it I refuse to believe anything on the net 100%. However, the burden of proof is on the other side, their claims of scams, fabricating comments or whatever are weak because *they do not have the skill or the resources to collect data like the media has, with real journalists and proper research*. I can't take claims from tumblr, reddit or blogspot blogs seriously.



[video=youtube;FopyRHHlt3M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M[/video]


The same media which expresses concern that call of duty is training children to become mass murderers, Kellie.
The same media which claims that second hand smoking doesn't exist. 
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j...smoking-another-of-the-nanny-states-big-lies/

Obviously very few journalists, even those at big newspapers, actually do *any* research before they publish. 


Scientists visiting my department often complain that the media deliberately misrepresents their research.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> [video=youtube;FopyRHHlt3M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M[/video]
> 
> 
> The same media which expresses concern that call of duty is training children to become mass murderers, Kellie.
> ...


The media can make mistakes but in the vast majority of cases you can trust them over random blogs that you can google.

But you're right that data can often be misrepresented in media. That's kind of a separate issue, though.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The media can make mistakes but in the vast majority of cases you can trust them over random blogs that you can google.
> 
> But you're right that data can often be misrepresented in media. That's kind of a separate issue, though.




I think that the media deliberately presents a facile representation of people, like Anita, because the narrative of a damsel in distress appeals to their readers. 

People on tumblr, who complain that troll posts gave them post-traumatic-stress-disorder and ask for your money, are scam-artists.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I think that the media deliberately presents a facile representation of people, like Anita, because the narrative of a damsel in distress appeals to their readers.
> 
> People on tumblr, who complain that troll posts gave them post-traumatic-stress-disorder and ask for your money, are scam-artists.


Sure, maybe the media maybe picked up on her story because of old patriarchal ideas about damsels.

Nothing really justifies the death threats she faces, though, or the constant harassment she gets from so many people and yet some think she has the time to fabricate every single nasty comment thrown at her.

I'm not sure who you refer to as "people on tumblr" but I'm not sure what that or the "scamming" has to do with the media discussion we were having.


----------



## Troj (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You've made a really valuable point right there, Kellie, which is that as annoying or tiresome as Anita Sarkeesian might be, she doesn't deserve having her social media feed or inbox fill up with graphic threats.

(Chillingly, I've had people insist that she and _all of the other online feminists_ expertly fake _all_ of these threats, which is insane.)

What's genuinely scary is that there are people who really don't grok that the penalty for "being annoying and dumb on the Interwebs" really shouldn't be _rape_ or_ death. _


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> You've made a really valuable point right there, Kellie, which is that as annoying or tiresome as Anita Sarkeesian might be, she doesn't deserve having her social media feed or inbox fill up with graphic threats.
> 
> (Chillingly, I've had people insist that she and _all of the other online feminists_ expertly fake _all_ of these threats, which is insane.)
> 
> What's genuinely scary is that there are people who really don't grok that the penalty for "being annoying and dumb on the Interwebs" really shouldn't be _rape_ or_ death. _


And yet some think it's merely an issue of free speech and counter-criticism. Even though the "counter-criticism" is very toxic and rarely said in a civilized manner. All the anti-Anita videos on YouTube prefer to simply insult her and use crude language and then get all butthurt when she doesn't respond even though no one is obligated to respond to your "criticism", just like game developers have no obligation to listen to Anita's criticism, or to change a game just because she said she had a problem with it.

And it's a shame, I know I would've liked having a discussion with Anita myself, but of course the haters had to spam up her comment sections with so much bile that she had to turn off the comments.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

ok so i didn't die but 700 mg of caffeine made me feel like i was.... o.0  

look   contrary to what some might believe. i don't think anita deserves the  actual trolling she does get ( a lot of it is fake yes) but what she  does get i don't see it as deserved if its rape and murder threats. nor  do i think TJ the Amazing Atheist deserves all the threats he gets. but  he doesn't use the threats as a way to get attention from white knights  either. because i am an avid anti feminist and an anti christian,   everyday i get trolls threatening me on twitter and other sites. but its  just dumb trolls, im not gonna play the damsel in distress and call for  my white knights to come save me from the trolls -.-

the mass  media these days aren't credible sources. they have even less  credibility than independent media. independent media isn't linking GTA  to mass murderers. 



Fallowfox said:


> [video=youtube;FopyRHHlt3M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M[/video]
> 
> 
> The same media which expresses concern that call of duty is training children to become mass murderers, Kellie.
> ...



exactly what i mean. 

i just find it funny that someone needs 150,000 to make  6, 9 minute videos, mostly of them staring at you talking.
you don't need media to peace that together.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ok so i didn't die but 700 mg of caffeine made me feel like i was.... o.0
> 
> look   contrary to what some might believe. i don't think anita deserves the  actual trolling she does get ( a lot of it is fake yes) but what she  does get i don't see it as deserved if its rape and murder threats. nor  do i think TJ the Amazing Atheist deserves all the threats he gets. but  he doesn't use the threats as a way to get attention from white knights  either. because i am an avid anti feminist and an anti christian,   everyday i get trolls threatening me on twitter and other sites. but its  just dumb trolls, im not gonna play the damsel in distress and call for  my white knights to come save me from the trolls -.-
> 
> ...


She's bringing light to the kind of abuse women in gaming get on a pandemic level. Bad behavior needs to be called out and dealt with.

You have a rather simplistic view of mass media and mass media IS more credible than a stupid blog or YouTube video, even it isn't much. Independent media has some hope, but it varies from journalist to journalists.

Also, Anita didn't "need" all that money, it was happily donated to her. And she could've used the money to buy the games and play them, or to do some deep research, the kind that requires more than simply googling some bullshit.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> She's bringing light to the kind of abuse women in gaming get on a pandemic level. Bad behavior needs to be called out and dealt with.
> 
> You have a rather simplistic view of mass media and mass media IS more credible than a stupid blog or YouTube video, even it isn't much. Independent media has some hope, but it varies from journalist to journalists.
> 
> Also, Anita didn't "need" all that money, it was happily donated to her. And she could've used the money to buy the games and play them, or to do some deep research, the kind that requires more than simply googling some bullshit.


lol every one of her nonsensical tropes has been debunked by many other people.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol every one of her nonsensical tropes has been debunked by many other people.


That's subjective.

And I really do mean that, some people try to point out the sexism in games as if it's objective fact, a notion I strongly disagree with.


----------



## Troj (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Problematically, as invalid or sloppy as Anita Sarkeesian's critiques of various video games _might_ arguably be, her larger point about widespread systemic sexism is validated every time a critical mass of people declare that she should be raped to death by bears wearing electric drilldoes for not understanding Mario Kart.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> Problematically, as invalid or sloppy as Anita Sarkeesian's critiques of various video games _might_ arguably be, her larger point about widespread systemic sexism is validated every time a critical mass of people declare that she should be raped to death by bears wearing electric drilldoes for not understanding Mario Kart.


That and how people see her as a threat that must be silenced. I mean, for god's sake, the thread title here says she "needs to stop", because god forbid people exercise their right to freedom of speech, no, she must be silenced like pro-gay organizations in russia so she can't spread her vile misandrist propaganda. >:[


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> Problematically, as invalid or sloppy as Anita Sarkeesian's critiques of various video games _might_ arguably be, her larger point about widespread systemic sexism is validated every time a critical mass of people declare that she should be raped to death by bears wearing electric drilldoes for not understanding Mario Kart.



i call bullshit, on this whole i was trolled so im right nonsense.   i fail to see any logic in this. fucking trolls do not = widespread systematic sexism.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> That and how people see her as a threat that must be silenced. I mean, for god's sake, the thread title here says she "needs to stop", because god forbid people exercise their right to freedom of speech, no, she must be silenced like pro-gay organizations in russia so she can't spread her vile misandrist propaganda. >:[




God forbid somebody feign having a psychiatric diagnosis and beg strangers for money online, more like.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> God forbid somebody feign having a psychiatric diagnosis and beg strangers for money online, more like.


Who are you to say she feigned it and has she asked for donations after her kickstarter campaign? Aside from the donate button that was always there on her site?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> God forbid somebody feign having a psychiatric diagnosis and beg strangers for money online, more like.


i think the potato salad party kickstarter was more deserved than anita. hey at least he actually purchased the salad


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Who are you to say she feigned it and has she asked for donations after her kickstarter campaign? Aside from the donate button that was always there on her site?



A soldier who saw his friend die can get post traumatic stress disorder. 
The survivors of terrorist attacks can get post traumatic stress disorder. 
Rape victims can get post traumatic stress disorder. 

People who were trolled on the internet _do not_ get post traumatic stress disorder.
People who claim they have are attention-starved lunatics, they are the sorts of people who would self-diagnose themselves with bipolar disorder because sometimes they get upset and sometimes they are happy. 


Anybody, who isn't qualified in medicine, self diagnosing themselves with fancy illnesses on the internet is a moron. :\
They're manipulative morons, if they do it in order to make other people feel guilty.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> A soldier who saw his friend die can get post traumatic stress disorder.
> The survivors of terrorist attacks can get post traumatic stress disorder.
> Rape victims can get post traumatic stress disorder.
> 
> ...



anita is the very definition of damsel in distress.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> A soldier who saw his friend die can get post traumatic stress disorder.
> The survivors of terrorist attacks can get post traumatic stress disorder.
> Rape victims can get post traumatic stress disorder.
> 
> ...


Now you are making things up.

I mean, sure, internet trolling giving anyone PTSD is doubtful, but you're not a psychiatrist, you never actually sat down with her, looked at her, talking to her. You're not more qualified to make judgements on Anita's mental health than she is qualified to diagnose herself.

It's not cool to talk shit about anyone's possible mental health problem and while it might seem doubtful, you're not a fucking doctor either, so you, me or anyone else in this thread have no goddamn qualifications to make assumptions about her mental health.

It's like you guys get rabies from the mere fact that she BREATHES, making things up to justify your silly little nerd rage.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Now you are making things up.
> 
> I mean, sure, internet trolling giving anyone PTSD is doubtful, but you're not a psychiatrist, you never actually sat down with her, looked at her, talking to her. You're not more qualified to make judgements on Anita's mental health than she is qualified to diagnose herself.
> 
> ...



nor are you qualified to justify it either. your making up shit to justify your silly little feminist rage.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> nor are you qualified to justify it either. your making up shit to justify your silly little feminist rage.


I'm not justifying anything, just saying you guys are pulling stuff out or your asses, pretending to be psychiatric experts and meddling in someone else's personal life and experience.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm not justifying anything, just saying you guys are pulling stuff out or your asses, pretending to be psychiatric experts and meddling in someone else's personal life and experience.


and im saying your more full of shit than a chilli contest porta pottie


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> and im saying your more full of shit than a chilli contest porta pottie


For saying you shouldn't meddle in someone else's personal life?


----------



## Troj (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Well, if it had been a few trolls, and people had stepped up to decry or resist them, that'd be one thing.

My read is that it was _more_ than just a few trolls, and that a lot of people who claimed to not be "like that" nonetheless hemmed and hawed and made excuses instead of taking a real or meaningful stand against the trolling and harassment. 

What it says to me is that, yeah, there is a sizable and vocal contingent of people who appear to completely lose their tits when women and/or feminists get even remotely uppity. 

It's not a global conspiracy that encompasses everything and everyone, but it's at least big and widespread enough to be worthy of _some_ concern.

Mainly, my point is that by attacking her much more aggressively than she attacked others, the trolls actually ended up generating more sympathy and support for her and her argument.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

nahh just in general for the lack of knowledge on the subject at hand and your white knighting of a liar and well known misandrist propagandist


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> nahh just in general for the lack of knowledge on the subject at hand and your white knighting of a liar and well known misandrist propagandist


proof of misandry plz.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

yeah sure when you give me all the proof you still need to post on everything you have stated.  but yaknow im not holding my breath on proof from an anti-white misandrist.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> yeah sure when you give me all the proof you still need to post on everything you have stated.  but yaknow im not holding my breath on proof from an anti-white misandrist.


I'm sorry, this my ironic silliness offend?

And I'm giving you a chance to prove yourself. But you do have to live with the chance that you could be wrong if you provide said proof.

EDIT:
Actually, fuck it, this has been going on for 16 pages. I'm fine with people disagreeing, the vast majority of FAF disagreed with me on The Witcher III, and I'm fine with that. But some people don't wanna listen to reason, don't wanna open up their minds and consider alternative explanations to certain scenarios or alternate viewpoints. They don't wanna consider that they might be wrong. They don't wanna consider that their sources might be wrong. And when I tell people not to meddle in someone's personal life they get all offended and shit. Because nobody deserves a right to privacy, right?

I do like a good healthy debate and discussion. But some clearly don't want it, and I'm done with 'em. Time to start blocking people. I won't say who but you'll probably figure it out over time.

And all of this could've been avoided if y'all just took some chill pills and decided to THINK. Jesus, mate.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You cannot get PTSD from internet trolling.
PTSD is developed from experiencing a life-threatening experience such as physical or sexual abuse, war, a car crash, seeing someone die, etc.
I have PTSD and it sure as fuck is not from being trolled on the internet. I didnt develop PTSD 2.0 after people started giving me death threats

Literally fuck off anita
fuck off breanna wu
fuck off that bitch who told soldiers to fuck off when she was called out for saying she had ptsd over twitter comments

This anti gamergate/sjw nonsense is toxic and leads to people like me not being taken seriously when we have an episode


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Brianna Wu is a joke
Not relevant anymore. No idea where the hell I was in this thread that I was reading. But I will also add that Sarkeesian is a joke as well.


Anyways, feminism, by definition, isn't inherently bad and isn't necessarily dangerous. It isn't really, at its core, a manblaming thing. Its SUPPOSED to promote equality for all. A hell of a lot of loudmouthed feminists are very....discriminatory towards men, whether they notice it or not, and it has seeped into the game industry, which is hella scary. That group of feminists has made me wary of the term, and I think egaltarianism needs to be pushed more consequently. 

Anyways, my biggest issue with feminism in gaming is that its gotten games censored and changed because people were offended by them, which I think is terrible. I don't think its right to change something or censor something simply because it offends people. That's dangerous to art. Its hurt a lot of games of late, however small. People last I saw were yelling to have Final Fantasy XV changed because of Cid. They want her to look, quite frankly, less sexy. And that scares me.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ah
Melody Hensley
That's the one who got PTSD from Twitter comments, and then went on to insult war vets.

T-T-T-RRIGGEREDDDDDDSSS Im HavINg an EPisdooodcee!!!!

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/880/936/4f1.jpg
[url]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kDmJYnK9Hs8/VIqj_5mr6gI/AAAAAAAABIE/KPb2wYyrOkQ/s1600/triggered.jpg
https://blueollie.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/triggered.jpg?w=320&h=371[/URL]

Im sry ifI'm The ONlyoN E who UNDERstnDStHIS REferEnce!!!!


----------



## TheArchiver (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I feel bad for comedians.


----------



## GarthTheWereWolf (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Now you are making things up.
> 
> I mean, sure, internet trolling giving anyone PTSD is doubtful, but you're not a psychiatrist, you never actually sat down with her, looked at her, talking to her. You're not more qualified to make judgements on Anita's mental health than she is qualified to diagnose herself.
> 
> It's not cool to talk shit about anyone's possible mental health problem and while it might seem doubtful, you're not a fucking doctor either, so you, me or anyone else in this thread have no goddamn qualifications to make assumptions about her mental health.



I'm in the process of getting license as a psychtech at the moment~ soooo for everyone in the threads edification. V:

The medical criteria for being diagnosed with PTSD straight from DSM-5:

*A. Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence, in one (or more) of the following ways:*
     1. Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s)
     2. Witnessing, in person, the event(s) as it occurred to others.
     3. Learning that the traumatic event(s) occurred to a close family member or close friend. In cases of actual or threatened death of a family member or friend, the event(s) must have been violent or accidental.
     4. Experiencing repeated or extreme exposure to aversive details of the traumatic event(s) (e.g., first responders collecting human remains; police officers repeatedly exposed to details of child abuse). _Note:_ Criterion A4 does not apply to exposure through electronic media, television, movies, or pictures, unless this exposure is work-related.

*B. Presence of one (or more) of the following intrusion symptoms associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred:*
     1. Recurrent, involuntary, and intrusive distressing memories of the traumatic event(s). _Note:_ In children older than 6 years, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the traumatic event(s) are expressed.
     2. Recurrent distressing dreams in which the content and/or affect of the dream is related to the traumatic event(s). _Note:_ In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
     3. Dissociative reactions (e.g., flashbacks) in which the individual feels or acts as if the traumatic event(s) were recurring. (Such reactions may occur on a continuum, with the most extreme expression being a complete loss of awareness of present surroundings.) _Note:_ in children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur in play.
     4. Intense or prolonged psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).
     5. Marked physiological reactions to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).

*C. Persistant avoidance of stimuli associated with the traumatic event(s) beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by one or both of the following:*
     1. Avoidance of or efforts to avoid distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s).
     2. Avoidance of or efforts to avoid external reminders (people, places, conversations, activities, objects, situations) that arouse distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s).

*D. Negative alterations in cognitions and mood associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two or more of the following:*
     1. Inability to remember an important aspect of the traumatic event(s) (typically due to dissociative amnesia and not to other factors such as head injury, alcohol, or drugs).
     2. Persistant and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world (e.g., "I am bad," "No one can be trusted," "The world is completely dangerous," "My whole nervous system is permanently ruined.").
     3. Persistant, distorted cognitions about the cause or consequences of the traumatic event(s) that lead the individual to blame himself/herself or others.
     4. Persistant negative emotional state (e.g., fear, horror, anger, guilt, or shame).
     5. Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities.
     6. Feelings of detachment or estrangement from others.
     7. Persistant inability to experience positive emotions (e.g., inability to experience happiness, satisfaction, or loving feelings).

*E. Marked alterations in arousal and reactivity associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two or more of the following:*
     1. Irritable behavior and angry outbursts (with little or no provocation) typically expressed as verbal or physical aggression toward people or objects.
     2. Reckless or self-destructive behavior.
     3. Hypervigilance.
     4. Exaggerated startled response.
     5. Problems with concentration.
     6. Sleep disturbance (e.g., difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless sleep)

*F.  Duration of the disturbance (Criteria B, C, D, and E) is more than 1 month.*

*G. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.*

*H. The disturbance is not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., medication, alcohol) or another medical condition.*


All 8 criteria must be met for her to actually have PTSD. Pretty certain she doesn't meet criteria A or C. [size=-2]P.S. I don't really give a fuck about Anita or gamegate. This is just me creating a learning opportunity[/size]


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Purrrfect post Garth


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



GarthTheWereWolf said:


> I'm in process of getting license as psychtech at the moment~ soooo for everyone in the threads edification. V:
> 
> The medical criteria for being diagnosed with PTSD straight from DSM-5:
> 
> ...


and knowing is half the battle


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Knowing is most of the battle, with these people.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

if they knew anything they wouldn't be arguing against logic.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> Anyways, my biggest issue with feminism in gaming is that its gotten games censored and changed because people were offended by them, which I think is terrible.


Proof, please. DMC and a game getting pulled from Target in Australia don't count.



GarthTheWereWolf said:


> I'm in the process of getting license as a psychtech at the moment~ soooo for everyone in the threads edification. V:
> 
> The medical criteria for being diagnosed with PTSD straight from DSM-5:
> 
> ...


I've been diagnosed with PTSD... I think, I've been a bit unsure if my diagnosis is valid and the psychiatric clinic won't give me a clear answer.

My point is, I know the criteria but the thing is, Anita isn't your patient, or anyone's patient here, really. Leave it up to the professionals actually handling her to say if she's got PTSD or not. She may have been subjected to things no one knows about, she may have told a psychiatrist things she hasn't said publicly. We just don't know the whole story.

Also, she got more than nasty comments, she was chased out of her goddamn home, don't you think that would affect someone just a little bit?

Anita's mental health is, frankly, none of your goddamn business, or none of my goddamn business. Focus on your own lives instead, plz.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This whole thing reminds me of the story of the princess and the pea.

If Anita claims she has PTSD in order to score points in online discussions, then yes it's everybody's business.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> This whole thing reminds me of the story of the princess and the pea.
> 
> If Anita claims she has PTSD in order to score points in online discussions, then yes it's everybody's business.


Score points? What are you on about?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Score points? What are you on about?



'Everyone should feel bad for me because a troll upset me and now I've diagnosed myself with PTSD on the internet,'


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> 'Everyone should feel bad for me because a troll upset me and now I've diagnosed myself with PTSD on the internet,'


Citation needed, preferably from Anita herself.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> 'Everyone should feel bad for me because a troll upset me and now I've diagnosed myself with PTSD on the internet,'



it was actually Melody Hensley, another anti-gamergate feminist SJW dummy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...king-says-bit-war-veterans.html#ixzz2zfOr4clG


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I did dig around the internet, and I think I've confused Anita with a  woman called Melody Hensley, who complained that trolls on twitter gave  her post traumatic stress disorder and famously proliferated  trigger-warnings all over the internet and, consequentially, at  university campuses. 
At my university you are technically forbidden  from playing certain music, because it could trigger rape survivors. The  music has been played at every single event since it was banned.
Psychiatrists  generally regard this proliferation of trigger warnings as a lay  misconception about therapy, which eventually moves on from safe-spaces  to encourage post traumatic stress sufferers to rebuild their confidence  and become resilient to exposure to potential triggers; you don't want a  war veteran to be scared of fire works for the rest of his life, and be  forced to avoid all fire crackers, balloons, or television dramas with  guns in them- because that would be a crippling lifestyle. 
Psychiatrists  have described trigger warnings as 'narcissistic' and 'coddling', and  argue for a culture that encourages exposure, rather than permitting  students to avoid taking classes at college with potentially offensive  content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger#Trigger_warnings


 Melody explained what kind of comments gave her the disorder, claiming  that if people don't believe she has PTSD, that this is exemplary of the  vicious 'harassment' that caused her to develop PTSD in the first  place, and may trigger her disorder. 
That's right; merely doubting that someone can get PTSD from twitter is, according to her, sufficient to give someone PTSD.
 [can you see why Psychiatrists describe this sort of thing as Narcissistic?]

She  famously threatened that, if anybody from the military with PTSD  questioned her self-proclaimed diagnosis, that she would call their  commanding officer and attempt to get them fired. 

there's a  video, which I think you'd probably regard as biased, about this, but it  also features screenshots of all the comments, so I suppose it's worth  posting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyjhbepx1Go




Volkodav said:


> it was actually Melody Hensley, another anti-gamergate feminist SJW dummy
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...king-says-bit-war-veterans.html#ixzz2zfOr4clG



Thanks, Volkodav; I realised this while I was typing the above comment.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I think trigger warning for things like music are dumb af because any song csn trigger anybidy
i remember watching a vid of a war vet who was triggered by a certain song he heard while on duty
there was gunfire or something and they were all sent out of their base to fight, and ever since that moment he has associated that song in the background with that moment
ill try to find the video later
but yeah you cant get ptsd from internet harassment and i find it incredibly insulting that she insists she does
she disgusts me


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The song in question was 'blurred lines', and was banned at college premises and events because a group of men at the college's student union argued that this was a deliberate reference to blurring lines of sexual consent, and that this reference would hence trigger rape victims. 

They passed the new move by winning a majority in a student union vote at the college, in which all votes were made public, so that anybody who disagreed could be branded as a misogynist.

Even people who agreed with the vote were upset that the votes were made public, and plenty of women at the college expressed frustration that they thought this group of men was patronising them, as if they were maidens to be rescued in the first place.

...but this is the sort of stuff you have to put up with at University. The student political groups are full of this kind of thing. They're the same people who think that Tolkien is a Nazi sympathiser, though have never read his books. They're the same people who think that if a man is accused of rape, his name should be made known to the public and he should be sacked, before any legal proceedings are taken to confirm that the allegation is even true [and they put this into practice when they forced the student union president to stand down because of a rape accusation that turned out to be false. He has to repeat another year at university because they disrupted his study so much]


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I did dig around the internet, and I think I've confused Anita with a  woman called Melody Hensley


Oh, that makes sense, I've heard of her. I don't know the full story but she sounds like a weirdo and threatening to call commanding officers or whatever is just plain wrong. I'll give y'all a pass on that one.

'cause, you know, I'm about as left as you can get but sometimes people go too far, like when angry tumblr and twitter people threw a fuckton of verbal abuse and slander as Joss Whedon for Avengers: Age of Ultron.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh fallow.. dont even get me started on university
ever hear of "mattress girl"?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Oh fallow.. dont even get me started on university
> ever hear of "mattress girl"?



No?


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Oh fallow.. dont even get me started on university
> ever hear of "mattress girl"?



Just been reading up on it

The sheer level of vindictive bitchiness from Mattress Girl, just wow......wow..........I need to go sit down.....

It really just seems like this......

"Hmm my academics are going shit, I need a way to boost myself, oh I know, that guy I had consensual sex with the other day, I'll accuse him of raping me, of course he'll deny it because its all a lie that I've created but then I'll spin that into me being proud and not afraid to stand up for myself and not hide from him! Then I'll write a thesis about my struggles, and carry a 50lbl mattress, yes this diabolical plan is perfect, sure it will ruin this guys academics career but who cares, its all about me!"


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## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Just been reading up on it
> 
> The sheer level of vindictive bitchiness from Mattress Girl, just wow......wow..........I need to go sit down.....
> 
> ...



feminism is just a weapon used by women to demonize men and destroy public perception of things. its a hate movement. i would expect no less


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> feminism is just a weapon used by women to demonize men and destroy public perception of things. its a hate movement. i would expect no less


Even though _real_ feminism is all about gender equality
Anyone who touts it as a movement to hate men is not a feminist


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> s
> anita sarkeesian isnt actually a gamer. she has stated countless times that she hated video games before she jumped on the gaming wagon to push false feminist redirect.


>saying shit like this
>posting three "R-REFUTING ANITA!! THE FEMINIST BULLY OF MALE GAYMERS!!" videos
>unable to enjoy video games while also critiquing them on elements of misogyny or racism
>actually identifying as a "gamer"
ain't nobody demonizing your precious hobby. I don't agree w/ everything Anita has to say, mainly because she seems to be more toward cis white girl feminism where she uses her platforms and privelege to speak over non-whites and trans folk . Also because this video is pretty bad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpzEjjn3w4U

She still doesn't deserve the rape/death threats she gets, also it seems like your hatred for her also comes from a blind hatred of women. 

Also, nice sig bro *tips fedora*


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> Even though _real_ feminism is all about gender equality
> Anyone who touts it as a movement to hate men is not a feminist



And no scotsman who puts sugar in his porridge is a true scot.



1000bluntz said:


> >saying shit like this
> >posting three "R-REFUTING ANITA!! THE FEMINIST BULLY OF MALE GAYMERS!!" videos
> >unable to enjoy video games while also critiquing them on elements of misogyny or racism
> >actually identifying as a "gamer"
> ...




Everyone's a transphobic racist, hooray! C:

Cis scum!


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Nobody is saying anita deserves death threats
take a nap, bluntz


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> >saying shit like this
> >posting three "R-REFUTING ANITA!! THE FEMINIST BULLY OF MALE GAYMERS!!" videos
> >unable to enjoy video games while also critiquing them on elements of misogyny or racism
> >actually identifying as a "gamer"
> ...


nice shit post scrub.


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> And no scotsman who puts sugar in his porridge is a true scot.


Yeah that doesn't really work here


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> Yeah that doesn't really work here



Some feminists really do hold nasty views which run contrary to what other feminists want their movement to be. 

Most self-identified feminists at my college hold spectacularly strange views.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> No?



Some obsessive chick accused her ex of being a rapist cause he moved on from her
she did an "art project" that involved hauling around her dirty mattress that she was "raped on" to show the burden of being rape 
effectively ruined the guys life and it was found that she lied
Still insists that she was raped and still carries around that dirty artifact of days gone by
like a child who carries around their baby blanket. Eventually you gotta just tell em enough is enough its time to grow up!


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Some obsessive chick accused her ex of being a rapist cause he moved on from her
> she did an "art project" that involved hauling around her dirty mattress that she was "raped on" to show the burden of being rape
> effectively ruined the guys life and it was found that she lied
> Still insists that she was raped and still carries around that dirty artifact of days gone by
> like a child who carries around their baby blanket. Eventually you gotta just tell em enough is enough its time to grow up!



lol honestly i think  all feminists need to grow up and realize north america doesnt need them. there is no wage gap. there is no patriarchy, there is just as much sexism towards men. and for a movement supposedly based on equality, why is it named after one sex? also i love how these poser fucks who have 420 and bluntz in their names think master trolling on a furfag site will get them cool points. really faggot? git gud scrub, go home your drunk.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Women are still under-represented as politicians [maybe 1 in 11 will be women?] so it's not as though sexual disparity doesn't exist.


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Some feminists really do hold nasty views which run contrary to what other feminists want their movement to be.
> 
> Most self-identified feminists at my college hold spectacularly strange views.


Well I'm not saying they don't exist (because they do) but they're not, and should not, be the main face of the movement. Of course people will associate them with feminists who aren't man-hating and assume that everyone is like that, much like people do with ISIS or murrsuiters, but as we all know neither ISIS nor murrsuiters make up even the majority of their respective groups. And feminism is no different.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Women are still under-represented as politicians [maybe 1 in 11 will be women?] so it's not as though sexual disparity doesn't exist.


well maybe so but not in canada.  doesnt mean its everywhere like most of them think



Willow said:


> Well I'm not saying they don't exist (because they  do) but they're not, and should not, be the main face of the movement.  Of course people will associate them with feminists who aren't  man-hating and assume that everyone is like that, much like people do  with ISIS or murrsuiters, but as we all know neither ISIS nor  murrsuiters make up even the majority of their respective groups. And  feminism is no different.


yeah the % is alot higher than you would like to think. ive met like 2 sain feminists  out of 100's and one of them, do not go by feminist anymore because your movement means something different than it used to. allso again, why is a movement you state to be about equality named after only one sex.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> Well I'm not saying they don't exist (because they do) but they're not, and should not, be the main face of the movement. Of course people will associate them with feminists who aren't man-hating and assume that everyone is like that, much like people do with* ISIS or murrsuiters*, but as we all know neither ISIS nor murrsuiters make up even the majority of their respective groups. And feminism is no different.



:c are we really that bad that we're mentioned in the same context as those barbarians? 

I understand what you mean though, but this doesn't mean I don't think there are significant problems with the kinds of justifications and opinions which are circulating in feminist groups.

I think that the ideals which most people would describe as feminist, of egalitarianism, are generally held by almost everybody in my country, whether or not they call themselves feminists.


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> yeah the % is alot higher than you would like to think. ive met like 2 sain feminists  out of 100's and one of them, do not go by feminist anymore because your movement means something different than it used to. allso again, why is a movement you state to be about equality named after only one sex.


Because it's, for the most part, about women's rights. But the end goal is equality for both sexes. 
Edit: Originally feminism was about voting and even then, the movement was only really for white women. 



Fallowfox said:


> :c are we really that bad that we're mentioned in the same context as those barbarians?


It was really only the second thing that came to mind but it still worked 



> I understand what you mean though, but this doesn't mean I don't think there are significant problems with the kinds of justifications and opinions which are circulating in feminist groups.
> 
> I think that the ideals which most people would describe as feminist, of egalitarianism, are generally held by almost everybody in my country, whether or not they call themselves feminists.


Yeah unfortunately the US doesn't have that luxury. I mean you probably saw how long it took for us to have affordable health care and gay marriage and they're still kind of fucked up in some regard. 
Like I know there's a lot of problems with modern feminism but at this point I'm willing to attribute it to the fact that it's no longer a cohesive movement. There's too many communities that have created their own ideals and honestly, I think Tumblr has done the worst amount of damage.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> Because it's, for the most part, about women's rights. But the end goal is equality for both sexes.
> Edit: Originally feminism was about voting and even then, the movement was only really for white women.



i cant think of any rights men have that women do not, please enlighten me


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> i cant think of any rights men have that women do not, please enlighten me



These may not be issues in Canada but..
-Not many places in the US have very good maternity leave 
-Female body autonomy (i.e. abortion, etc.)
-The fact that a woman can be sued for giving her rapist HIV or any other STD
-The wage gap (and I know you're going to say it's a myth but shh); 
--the fact that the US Women's soccer team is making about 40x less than the men's team is a pretty good indication here
Like $15 million is still a lot of money but it's still the same division (in this case FIFA) and they won whereas I think the men's team lost 

Edit: That's actually payout for the game itself. The women's team got $2 million for winning whereas the men's team got $8 million for losing. That's still 4x though :/

and so on..

It's not always about who has the right but the fact that sometimes the right doesn't exist. Obviously female body autonomy doesn't affect men, but it's something that needs to be dealt with nonetheless


----------



## Student (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> yeah the % is alot higher than you would like to think. ive met like 2 sain feminists  out of 100's and one of them, do not go by feminist anymore because your movement means something different than it used to. allso again, why is a movement you state to be about equality named after only one sex.



Plural of anecdote is not data. Chances are you only notice the batshit ones because those are the ones that confirm your views of feminism.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Student said:


> Plural of anecdote is not data. Chances are you only notice the batshit ones because those are the ones that confirm your views of feminism.


chances are every feminist i meet is batshit



Willow said:


> These may not be issues in Canada but..
> -Not many places in the US have very good maternity leave
> -Female body autonomy (i.e. abortion, etc.)
> -The fact that a woman can be sued for giving her rapist HIV or any other STD
> ...



1. men dont get pregnant so this is subjective.
2. again subjective ( im pro abortion) many women are anti abortion doesnt sound like an equality thing here.
3. and i bet men can be sued for giving their rapists HIV as well right?
4. the wage gap really is a myth there is to much they dont account for.  like the fact that many women take job fields that are low in pay. it  is not a matter of lower pay % rates.
5. the soccer thing is shitty but the fact remains less people want to  see womens soccer so they make less money. so because of lower profits,  the employees get less. same as any sport.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

oops double post


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> 5. the soccer thing is shitty but the fact remains less people want to  see womens soccer so they make less money. so because of lower profits,  the employees get less. same as any sport.


This year's world cup was watched by more people in the US than any other soccer game in US history
And again, the men's team LOST in the earlier rounds and still made 4 times more. They weren't even there for a good portion of the games and still made more money.

Edit: Also I'm talking about people who work in the same field. Obviously people in different lines of work make different pay...


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Men have no body autonomy js


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> This year's world cup was watched by more people in the US than any other soccer game in US history
> And again, the men's team LOST in the earlier rounds and still made 4 times more. They weren't even there for a good portion of the games and still made more money.
> 
> Edit: Also I'm talking about people who work in the same field. Obviously people in different lines of work make different pay...


then you will most likely see pay changes when they rake in more money.
as well. if you are talking about the same jobs with women getting lower pay % then its a myth. the reason the wage gap thing is able to hold float around some people is because they gather the evidence falsely. women tend to take jobs that pay less. so when they make up their data they fail to account for job positions, money lost via time off for pregnancy, etc.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> This year's world cup was watched by more people in the US than any other soccer game in US history
> And again, the men's team LOST in the earlier rounds and still made 4 times more. They weren't even there for a good portion of the games and still made more money.
> 
> Edit: Also I'm talking about people who work in the same field. Obviously people in different lines of work make different pay...



Nowhere near as many people watched the female team as they did the male team.

Money is generated from the views, the ratings.

Sports teams get their pay proportionate to the amount of money they bring in.

They play football, but technically, playing football isn't their job.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Everyone's a transphobic racist, hooray! C:
> 
> Cis scum!



I wouldn't call her a transphobic racist but her version of feminism seems very inclusive. She's aight..and I say that lightly. I just think this topic could be better explored by other people.

Edit: Oh and Kalmor how about actually deleting worn out threads like this rather than delete my minimal emoticon posts.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Yesterday i saw someone say soccer world cup was racist cause "there are no brown girls on the American team"


----------



## Willow (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Nowhere near as many people watched the female team as they did the male team.
> 
> Money is generated from the views, the ratings.
> 
> ...


i don't really watch sports that often so I'm not 100% on the finer details but money for the network (and I think FIFA gets a cut of it too) is based on views. But the money the teams get is agreed on before the games.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Willow said:


> i don't really watch sports that often so I'm not 100% on the finer details but money for the network (and I think FIFA gets a cut of it too) is based on views. But the money the teams get is agreed on before the games.


yes the money agreed on is based on previous earnings, before the game.



1000bluntz said:


> Edit: Oh and Kalmor how about actually deleting worn out threads like  this rather than delete my minimal emoticon posts.



doin a good job
kalmor  

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3_dlszl8ak/maxresdefault.jpg this your wallpaper bluntz?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Male sports are probably more popular than female sports because it's more fun to watch men. I remember a while back I got into an argument with someone who complained about why female play softball and men play hardball, and that shit goes down to genetics bro
theres genetic difference between men and women, and men tend to play sports harder and faster, which makes for better viewing
now, the women are complaining about how there are no "brown girls" on the team (im sure there are many white girls who didnt make the team)
Soccer is racist

in 2014 the German master race blew Brazil's ass right open, full prolapse
Brazilians everywhere were literally crying
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot...oals_in_18_minutes_to_stun_all_of_brazil.html

This was the most racist match to go down in history


----------



## Silver64 (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> This pretty much sums up how I feel. Also, I need to correct the error in your title. Based on the content of your post, it should say "Why *Radical *Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry".


Agreed. Radical feminist are the ones causing the harm and it is unfortunate that the two get confused.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Silver64 said:


> Agreed. Radical feminist are the ones causing the harm and it is unfortunate that the two get confused.



Mmmm
nahhh
Can you explain to me how Anita is a radical feminist?


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Male sports are probably more popular than female sports because it's more fun to watch men.



Citation needed.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Citation needed.


Nfl
nba
mlb
nhl
world cup
fifa
golf league
tennis league (dont know the abbreviations for these two)
ufc
wrestling
any sort of fighting sport 
lumberjack competition
any weightlifting competition
olympics in general
Basically any sport that doesnt have "women's" in front of it. Men are, overall, better at physical competition than women are, over every sport. This is why theyre more popular, its more fun to watch.

Lolol
bye

Btw
going around a block through someone elses account is not cool
blocking.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You're kind of paranoid. This is Butters' fiance and not being sexist doesn't mean I'm him lol.

Also you're just bullshitting about athletics and olympics. Events like swimming, tennis (have you even heard of Wimbledon?), Netball and MMA are just as fun to watch women compete in, and why would weightlifting be fun to watch at all? Asserting that women are no good at anything at all like you do is really showing your ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7lt0CYwHg


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> You're kind of paranoid. This is Butters' fiance and not being sexist doesn't mean I'm him lol.
> 
> Also you're just bullshitting about athletics and olympics. Events like swimming, tennis (have you even heard of Wimbledon?), Netball and MMA are just as fun to watch women compete in, and why would weightlifting be fun to watch at all? Asserting that women are no good at anything at all like you do is really showing your ass.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7lt0CYwHg


Dude, it's Clay, of course he's paranoid. Gotta watch out for them feminists and muslims and everyone who isn't a straight gay white male. :V


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Volk/Clay just automatically assuming Butters would be that sly and vindictive to go through his fiance's account to make a slight against you is a bit OTT and uncalled for, you really need to chill on the paranoia :/


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh wow.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

its called a mental condition. you cant just stop being paranoid. and it doesn't help that some retarded feminist tried to ban him for hate speech which was really just a rebuttal to an argument the feminist most likely cant win. hop off his dick.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I would put forth the argument that if anything is ruining the gaming industry, it's the gaming industry.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This is personal issues between myself and someone else and im not dragging them in here.

The fact remains, womens sports are not popular like mens sports is. My family isnt into womens sports, however back when the vancouver olympics were going on, i was at a relatives house for dinner and hes super into hockey so he was watching all of the hockey games
the one thing i remember about this game was that people kept saying that this one girl was "so fucking awesome, she could even play on the mens team"


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I would put forth the argument that if anything is ruining the gaming industry, it's the gaming industry.


I always thought it was odd, so many bad things are happening in the gaming industry. Things like releasing buggy products like Assassin's Creed or Arkham Knight. Releasing a $60 game and then a $40 season pass for it, so to get all the content you basically gotta pay $100. Making a season pass for a game that doesn't actually include all the bonus content, like Mortal Kombat X (good game but not as good as the last one).

Gaming studios sacrificing artistic integrity to boost sales. Let's bring back Syndicate but maybe it an FPS. Let's tell a developer they can't have a woman on the box art so the developers have to bicker with the publisher just to let their artistic choices come through. Let's not release Beyond Good & Evil 2 because Assassin's Creed is a hot seller.

Let's release  game without a single person of color but instead fans are complaining about fucking grass physics.

Let's show a bullshit E3 demo that doesn't represent the final product.

But no, apparently women/feminists are the big problems in games, rather than all of the above.

LOL.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> This is personal issues between myself and someone else and im not dragging them in here.
> 
> The fact remains, womens sports are not popular like mens sports is. My family isnt into womens sports, however back when the vancouver olympics were going on, i was at a relatives house for dinner and hes super into hockey so he was watching all of the hockey games
> the one thing i remember about this game was that people kept saying that this one girl was "so fucking awesome, she could even play on the mens team"



You were the one who brought it up in the first place.

Also, just because your friends and relatives have certain similar opinions (surprise surprise), doesn't mean they speak for the entire universe. Your little bubble isn't the whole world.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

edit: yknow what I'm not even gonna get into this.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Proof, please. DMC and a game getting pulled from Target in Australia don't count.


http://www.themarysue.com/pillars-of-eternity-transphobia/
http://i.imgur.com/Ksip9BD.jpg

I don't like how skewed one way or the other either of these links are, but they at least tell what happened.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> http://www.themarysue.com/pillars-of-eternity-transphobia/
> http://i.imgur.com/Ksip9BD.jpg
> 
> I don't like how skewed one way or the other either of these links are, but they at least tell what happened.


About the first one, it's not censorship if the developer removes the content on their own. Nobody forced them. This is not like the way violent games were censored in Europe in the 80's and 90's. And I was a European 90's kid. :I

It's self-censorship, small difference but it's there. The developers made the call so their artistic rights haven't been attacked, and if I recall correctly that transphobic bit wasn't even their ideas but something from a backer. Wether it SHOULD have been removed or not, is a stance I refuse to take. But it wasn't censorship.

As for the second one, well... maybe I'll give ya that one. The screenshots are impossible to read and I don't wanna have to type in every single URL. I also don't know if Kickstarter has any rules about it but I will say that if the project otherwise didn't break any rules or TOS it should've been fair game. And this is different from Pillars of Eternity because the suspension was forced on them. Big difference. Launching this kinda anti-campaign on an artistic vision is wrong IMO, unless it's based on a real person or something, like that Zoe Quinn rape novel on Amazon.

I will say, though, that the claims of satire are laughable, but a human mistake. Seems no one knows what satire even means these days.

Still not convinced there's some mass-censorship going on in video games right now, but both examples are very interesting.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> About the first one, it's not censorship if the developer removes the content on their own. Nobody forced them. This is not like the way violent games were censored in Europe in the 80's and 90's. And I was a European 90's kid. :I
> 
> It's self-censorship, small difference but it's there. The developers made the call so their artistic rights haven't been attacked, and if I recall correctly that transphobic bit wasn't even their ideas but something from a backer. Wether it SHOULD have been removed or not, is a stance I refuse to take. But it wasn't censorship.


But the developers were pressured into changing something someone payed to put in via kickstarter by people who were offended by it. Why is it only censorship if they're forced to do it? I mean you mentioned self-censorship, but it was done due to pressure from people outside the company. Its not like the company made something and was then on their own like "Y'know, I don't like this. Lets change it."


Also the screenshots should be readable. If you need to, try zooming in or something.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> But the developers were pressured into changing something someone payed to put in via kickstarter by people who were offended by it. Why is it only censorship if they're forced to do it? I mean you mentioned self-censorship, but it was done due to pressure from people outside the company. Its not like the company made something and was then on their own like "Y'know, I don't like this. Lets change it."
> 
> 
> Also the screenshots should be readable. If you need to, try zooming in or something.


"Pressure" is a bad excuse because it's up to the developer on wether they wanna give into pressure or not.

Some people are pressuring Nintendo to cancel Metroid Prime: Federation Force. But do you REALLY think they'll actually do it?

Going after the tentacle rape Kickstarter thing is a bit much, though. I mean, I understand the reasoning but they have a right to release the game, not even Hatred had big campaigns to shut the game down if I remember correctly. And tuning into Netflix I see so many shit TV shows getting away with rape without people wanting them to be cancelled so I'm not sure why games should be treated differently. I think games should be better than TV and not stoop down to that level of sleaziness but that's an entirely different issue. The game has a right to be released.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The main issue is that feminists themselves produced a game about tentacle sex, called 'consentacle', implying a double standard; it's offensive and discriminatory when other people do it, but it's progressive and acceptable if feminists do it. 

I've even come across examples, previously, of feminists arguing that cheating on your spouse is a form of rape...and then excusing themselves when it turns out they've cheated on their _own_ wife numerous times by 'coming out' as polyamorous, and expecting everyone to feel sorry for them.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I forgot to mention the story when EA was pressured by a lot of homophobic people, I can't remember the full story and I wish I had link but basically people were upset by gayness in EA games and pressured EA into not being so gay.

But EA actually did something GOOD for once and said they wouldn't succumb to this kind of homophobic terrorism. They could've easily given into pressure and self-censored the gayness, but they didn't.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> it's offensive and discriminatory when other  people do it, but it's progressive and acceptable if feminists do it.



http://jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have



I think the gender-asymmetry is justified here, because men are much stronger than women. 

I've seen my mum punch my dad before, but to be honest never thought anything of it because she's not as strong as he is, so she couldn't really hurt him. 

If I had seen my dad punch my mum, then I would have been worried.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I think the gender-asymmetry is justified here, because men are much stronger than women.
> 
> I've seen my mum punch my dad before, but to be honest never thought anything of it because she's not as strong as he is, so she couldn't really hurt him.
> 
> If I had seen my dad punch my mum, then I would have been worried.



and that's a huge problem.
Jezebel -- a feminist website -- is outright bragging about smacking their S.O around


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> and that's a huge problem.
> Jezebel -- a feminist website -- is outright bragging about smacking their S.O around



Yeah, frankly glorifying domestic violence as an exhibition of female strength is sinister, even if the violence in question is petty. 

It would be like bragging about hitting your kids on the head.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> edit: yknow what I'm not even gonna get into this.



You're posting to tell me you're not gonna reply? Wow.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> How is the view from that moral high ground you're taking?



Seriously, what is wrong with you people? 

Take your emotional tantrums somewhere else. ._.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Yeah, frankly glorifying domestic violence as an exhibition of female strength is sinister, even if the violence in question is petty.
> 
> It would be like bragging about hitting your kids on the head.



Gender/sex is a social construct
Women are equal to men in all aspects
Women are powerful and strong, don't teach us how to defend ourselves
Men can't hit women, we're fragile and weak!


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> "Pressure" is a bad excuse because it's up to the developer on wether they wanna give into pressure or not.
> 
> Some people are pressuring Nintendo to cancel Metroid Prime: Federation Force. But do you REALLY think they'll actually do it?


True, but not giving into pressure can make game studios look bad, and ultimately the most important thing as a business is to make money.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Gender/sex is a social construct
> Women are equal to men in all aspects
> Women are powerful and strong, don't teach us how to defend ourselves
> Men can't hit women, we're fragile and weak!


yeah i mean its still a problem in society today. woman hits a man ( no matter the context) shes a hero. man hits a woman ( no matter the context) hes a shitstain and will be hunted down by other men and women maybe even assaulted. 
woman cheats on man, then he wasn't worth her time and he deserved it.
man cheats on woman, then hes a pig and subhuman.

i mean really, a woman cut off her husbands dick and put it in the waist disposal grinder, and all these shitty cunts called her a hero.
what if the cunt cheated on him and he cut off her breasts and  put them in a wood chipper? is he a hero??

the world is full of double standards. and most of them are in favor of women.

EDIT: yeah ima give yall a bit to think about it. im sure some of you are crafty enough to come up with some insane excuse for this.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> True, but not giving into pressure can make game studios look bad, and ultimately the most important thing as a business is to make money.


Diversity sells, transphobia doesn't. Not really a matter of censorship but economics. But it can depend a lot on what sort of audience you want, too. Hatred didn't sell a lot but maybe that's to be expected when the content alienated most of the world. Not me though, I think Hatred looks painfully vanilla for a game where you shoot civilians. :V


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Diversity sells, transphobia doesn't. Not really a matter of censorship but economics. But it can depend a lot on what sort of audience you want, too. Hatred didn't sell a lot but maybe that's to be expected when the content alienated most of the world. Not me though, I think Hatred looks painfully vanilla for a game where you shoot civilians. :V


hey kellie ^^^^^^^^^^^ you miss my last post??? just thought id remind you


----------



## Ariosto (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Can I just say I'm surprised this thread is still open? 20 pages and you all are still arguing over things you're never going to agree to disagree on. It's... not wrong or bad, but I wonder how you people can spend so much effort in this.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ariosto said:


> Can I just say I'm surprised this thread is still open? 20 pages and you all are still arguing over things you're never going to agree on. It's... not exactly wrong, but I wonder how you people can spend so much effort in this.



lol originally it was just a rant . a way to vent. i even stated it was just a rant and i dont care if they comment. but eventually so many  feminazis shitposted my rant that i had to comment.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ariosto said:


> Can I just say I'm surprised this thread is still open? 20 pages and you all are still arguing over things you're never going to agree to disagree on. It's... not wrong or bad, but I wonder how you people can spend so much effort in this.



Stubborn veterans never like to admit defeat, the fight will continue until one of them grows sick of it and concedes. Either way its been interesting and enlightening to read, in an odd way


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Stubborn veterans never like to admit defeat, the fight will continue until one of them grows sick of it and concedes. Either way its been interesting and enlightening to read, in an odd way



as 3DOG once said. im here to fight the good fight.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ariosto said:


> Can I just say I'm surprised this thread is still open? 20 pages and you all are still arguing over things you're never going to agree to disagree on. It's... not wrong or bad, but I wonder how you people can spend so much effort in this.


DIDN'T YOU READ THE TITLE?

ANITA SARKEESIAN MUST BE STOPPED BECAUSE, uh... she talked about games. SHUT UP. ;w;


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol originally it was just a rant . a way to   vent. i even stated it was just a rant and i dont care if they comment.   but eventually so many  feminazis shitposted my rant that i had to   comment.





ShioBear said:


> as 3DOG once said. im here to fight the good fight.



I don't know how you keep it up for so long and not grow tired of it :/ Feels like you'd get more progress from screaming at a brick wall or trying to make stones bleed.



Kellie Gator said:


> DIDN'T YOU READ THE TITLE?
> 
> ANITA SARKEESIAN MUST BE STOPPED BECAUSE, uh... she talked about games. SHUT UP. ;w;



Kellie you did inevitably provide the sustenance this topic needed to reach 20 pages 

This thread be like "Feed me Kellie! instead of Feed me Seymour!" x3


----------



## Ariosto (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> DIDN'T YOU READ THE TITLE?
> 
> ANITA SARKEESIAN MUST BE STOPPED BECAUSE, uh... she talked about games. SHUT UP. ;w;


I also disagree with Shio, but seriously, this must come to grate on your nerves at some point.
At the current time, I think my understanding of the issue is limited due to different cultural circumstances and lack of practical experience, so I'm not getting into this (also, I think it is really, really, really, really complex to adress all of the issues raised by OP, Volk, etc).


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I don't know how you keep it up for so long and not grow tired of it :/ Feels like you'd get more progress from screaming at a brick wall or trying to make stones bleed.


when the world gives you crazy, there is no excuse to be lazy.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ariosto said:


> I also disagree with Shio, but seriously, this must come to grate on your nerves at some point.


Oh, I blocked the people who grated on my nerves. I like having more civil discussions in this thread with those I didn't block, tho. I like talking vidyagaems. <3


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Oh, I blocked the people who grated on my nerves. I like having more civil discussions in this thread with those I didn't block, tho. I like talking vidyagaems. <3



Well we can all agree that video games are fun.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Well we can all agree that video games are fun.


And when I say "talking vidyagaems" I mean all aspects of it. I don't like the people who think that stuff like race or gender are out of the question and that the only things worth talking about are gameplay mechanics or fucking shaders.

I want videogames to be treated like every other form of art.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

lol i dont block people. some may  not share my views. but in the end i really don't care. in the end  its just the internet. 
i would prefer if the people i debate have some intelligence enough to dispute me. i like when willow argues with me  
but hey in the end. if you hate me for being passionate about a subject. you can blow it out your asshole  <3<3


----------



## Ariosto (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol i dont block people. some may  not share my views. but in the end i really don't care. in the end  its just the internet.
> i would prefer if the people i debate have some intelligence enough to dispute me. i like when willow argues with me
> but hey in the end. if you hate me for being passionate about a subject. you can blow it out your asshole  <3<3


Stuff like this makes me wonder about the limit between healthy self-pride and just plain stubborness.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> And when I say "talking vidyagaems" I mean all aspects of it. I don't like the people who think that stuff like race or gender are out of the question and that the only things worth talking about are gameplay mechanics or fucking shaders.
> 
> I want videogames to be treated like every other form of art.



Perhaps but my point still stands, video games are still a source of entertainment and I find games fun, as for everything else, don't really have the energy or desire to really debate it here


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I used to not block people until very recently.

Like I said, disagreements are fine but others' reading comprehension combined with "I REFUSE TO BUDGE ON THE ISSUE OF X" is an obstacle I can't do anything about.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I want videogames to be treated like every other form of art.



ohhh big mistake. big mistake indeed.

so you want videogames to be treated like every other form of art? is that right? not a typo?

 well you see kellie. when i paint a picture of two white men driving a car. thats the end of it. its not racist, its not sexist, its not homophobic, its not transphobic.
its my painting and my vision. and when i make multiple prints to sell, it will not be changed it will be the same. and the deal is, if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. if you want the picture to have a black gay man, and a white trans woman then you are free to paint your own picture. you however do not have the power to twist my art into something you yourself deem fit.

the same goes for music. im writing a song about a black man walking to the market to buy some veggies. the people he meets are mean and call him names because he is wearing pink.
this is my vision. you are free to listen to it. if you want it to be about a gay japanese girl walking to buy fruit, and on the way get huggs from mexican men then fine write your own song. you however do not have the right to twist my artistic expression to fit your own needs. 

the same goes for games. im making an adventure game where the protagonist is a white male. because that's how i see my game. im making him run across a land made of fire to rescue his lost love from a water breathing dragon. if you want the main character to be gay and rescuing a male, make your own game, if you want the kingdom to be water and the dragon to breath mayonnaise , then make your own game. the thing is. you don't have to buy it. but plenty of people want my game and they will be happy with it. who are you to change my vision. who are you to take my artistic expression away from me. and WHO ARE YOU to take the game so many people all ready love, away from them.



Kellie Gator said:


> "I REFUSE TO BUDGE ON THE ISSUE OF X"



sounds allot like you


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ohhh big mistake. big mistake indeed.
> 
> so you want videogames to be treated like every other form of art? is that right? not a typo?
> 
> ...


This is so dumb I'm glad I blocked you.

Art is not immune from criticism. That I even have to say this is pathetic and I feel like a retard for being around people who don't understand.

YOU KNOW. IF I DON'T WANT TO SERVE A WEDDING CAKE TO A PAIR OF FAGGOTS, DON'T FUCKING COME TO MY BAKERY. GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY INSTEAD OF CRYING DISCRIMINATION AT MY BAKERY.

Same logic.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> This is so dumb I'm glad I blocked you.
> 
> Art is not immune from criticism. That I even have to say this is pathetic and I feel like a retard for being around people who don't understand.


ok so you block people who have reasonable arguments for the bullshit you spout? fine plug your ears. but you have no place to argue here if you cant take a response to your nonsense. get off my thread


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> YOU KNOW. IF I DON'T WANT TO SERVE A WEDDING CAKE TO A PAIR OF FAGGOTS, DON'T FUCKING COME TO MY BAKERY. GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY INSTEAD OF CRYING DISCRIMINATION AT MY BAKERY.
> 
> Same logic.



That isn't the same kind of logic, Kellie I know you don't agree with Shio but no need to fly off the handles like this and furthermore why did the you edit it from "Gay Couple" to "Faggots" I mean really!? Kellie you need to take a step back and calm down, you are letting it all rile you up and make you angry again :/


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> That isn't the same kind of logic, Kellie I know you don't agree with Shio but no need to fly off the handles like this and furthermore why did the you edit it from "Gay Couple" to "Faggots" I mean really!? Kellie you need to take a step back and calm down, you are letting it all rile you up and make you angry again :/


if you dispute her and she has no grounds to stand on she will make up crazy stuff and scream at you in all caps


----------



## zanian (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> This is so dumb I'm glad I blocked you.
> 
> Art is not immune from criticism. That I even have to say this is pathetic and I feel like a retard for being around people who don't understand.
> 
> ...



Faulty logic and cap locks; a winning combo, isn't it?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> That isn't the same kind of logic, Kellie I know you don't agree with Shio but no need to fly off the handles like this and furthermore why did the you edit it from "Gay Couple" to "Faggots" I mean really!? Kellie you need to take a step back and calm down, you are letting it all rile you up and make you angry again :/


Just wanted to add some emphasis.

Still same logic, IMO. Feeling excluded because a game has no people of color? Make your own game. Feeling discriminated because a bakery didn't want to bake a cake for your gay wedding? Go to another baker.

It's dumb. But apparently Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert were really bad people who should've made their own movies instead of critique already existing movies and sometimes talking about gender in movies.

[video=youtube;Iz2N6BMOsyQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz2N6BMOsyQ[/video]

Gays are people. Treat them like people. Games are art. Treat them like art.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



zanian said:


> Faulty logic and cap locks; a winning combo, isn't it?



yeah lol ME ANGRY! ME PUT BULLSHIT NOT MAKE SENSE!! BUT ME WILL KEEP MAKE SAME POINT UNTIL ME NEED TO SLEEP AND THEN ME WIN ARGUMENT!


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I make so little sense that nobody has tried to refute me.~


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I make so little sense that nobody has tried to refute me.~



backwards we all refute you because you make so little sense


----------



## zanian (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Just wanted to add some emphasis.
> 
> Still same logic, IMO. Feeling excluded because a game has no people of color? Make your own game. Feeling discriminated because a bakery didn't want to bake a cake for your gay wedding? Go to another baker.
> 
> ...



Since when does the sexual orientation of a video game character change anything, except for couples or some situations? (for example, see Dumbledore, who was revealed to be gay in the end)
Your analogy is flawed; art is expression, but you want to limit and censor the expression, according to some standards you supports, trying to guilt trip and insult those that don't take your side or are just in the middle 
You have the right to critique, but when you face the same thing, you cannot stand it; either you accept that it goes both way or take your time and reflect on it and come back a better person.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



zanian said:


> Since when does the sexual orientation of a video game character change anything, except for couples or some situations? (for example, see Dumbledore, who was revealed to be gay in the end)
> Your analogy is flawed; art is expression, but you want to limit and censor the expression, according to some standards you supports, trying to guilt trip and insult those that don't take your side or are just in the middle
> You have the right to critique, but when you face the same thing, you cannot stand it; either you accept that it goes both way or take your time and reflect on it and come back a better person.


I dunno if I can go on for much longer.

No one is censoring anything. They're critiquing stuff, big difference. And if the developers make changes it's usually because they listened and wanted to, it wasn't forced on them. It's not like in the German version of Wolfenstein: The New Order where all swastikas were censored because of German law.

Telling people to just go make their own game is dumb, too. Ihis reminds of some some American fundamentalist who wanted businesses to be able to refuse service to gays were asked what gays would do if there were no other supermarkets to go to in their area.

His response? "Gays can grow their own food".

Don't like a game without gays in it? Make your own game. Feeling discriminated because you're gay and the only supermarket in town refused to sell you food? Grow your own food.


----------



## zanian (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno if I can go on for much longer.
> 
> No one is censoring anything. They're critiquing stuff, big difference. And if the developers make changes it's usually because they wanted listened and wanted to, it wasn't forced on them. It's not like in the German version of Wolfenstein: The New Order where all swastikas were censored because of German law.
> 
> ...



Characters in game don't have sexuality, except if it's in the backstory; fans give them one if it's absent. Assuming a character without one is straight or gay or bi or whatever is up to the player, not the game developer; this permit the people to imagine, to create on their own, because the slate is blank. (a.k.a fanfiction, slashfictions and etc)
I'm in the middle; I play games for fun and nothing else. The fact that are you trying to paint as some sort of enemy is amusing, but sad; black and white vision is harmful to debates, you know. (it is the same tactics that G. W. Bush used to do; you are either with us or with the terrorists)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



zanian said:


> Characters in game don't have sexuality, except if it's in the backstory;


Quite an overwhelming majority of games are about damsels in distress, damsels that the male player character usually has a romantic or sexual connection to. So I'm not buying that. Some characters don't have any explicit backstory and that's fine, I'm the person who hopes the new Doom will remain ambiguous on the main character's race and gender, but you're painting a pretty broad brush there and it's not exactly accurate.



zanian said:


> Assuming a character without one is straight or gay or bi or whatever is up to the player, not the game developer; this permit the people to imagine, to create on their own, because the slate is blank. (a.k.a fanfiction, slashfictions and etc)


And yet so many games make you play as straight white dudes. I dunno what kind of games you play, but I might be able to forgive you for this naive belief of yours if the only games you ever played are RPGs or The Sims series. That might explain why you think game characters don't have defined sexual orientations. And most games are still male-dominated. And white-dominated. And straight-dominated.

Keep in mind I said most not all. I don't want a seemingly-long list of female-led games that isn't actually very long, so don't bother. :I




zanian said:


> I'm in the middle; I play games for fun and nothing else. The fact that are you trying to paint as some sort of enemy is amusing, but sad; black and white vision is harmful to debates, you know. (it is the same tactics that G. W. Bush used to do; you are either with us or with the terrorists)


I'm not anyone's enemy here, I'm just saying games aren't immune from criticism and that saying a game has problems with women or sexual orientations isn't censorship.

Also, LOL, SERIOUSLY COMPARING ME TO G.W. BUSH NOW, YOU'RE GIVING ME THE BEST OF ALL GIGGLES. <3


----------



## zanian (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm not anyone's enemy here, I'm just saying games aren't immune from criticism and that saying a game has problems with women or sexual orientations isn't censorship.
> 
> Also, LOL, SERIOUSLY COMPARING ME TO G.W. BUSH NOW, YOU'RE GIVING ME THE BEST OF ALL GIGGLES. <3



You just use the same tactic; if you can't understand the comparisons, that's ok, I wouldn't expect less from someone that made a threat that is pretty much ''I have a mental illness, so forgive if I have outbursts and rage at others without control''. It's not like we can expect much from you anyway ^^


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



zanian said:


> You just use the same tactic; if you can't understand the comparisons, that's ok, I wouldn't expect less from someone that made a threat that is pretty much ''I have a mental illness, so forgive if I have outbursts and rage at others without control''. It's not like we can expect much from you anyway ^^


I don't remember making such threats. Maybe I did and forgot about it, whatevs.

But seriously, you compared me to George W. Bush. That's about as close to Godwin's Law as you can get. Have some self-awareness, mate


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I don't remember making such threats. Maybe I did and forgot about it, whatevs.
> 
> But seriously, you compared me to George W. Bush. That's about as close to Godwin's Law as you can get. Have some self-awareness, mate



do you sit on the toilet shoulders first? because you talk out of your ass and there is enough shit coming out of you mouth hole to fill  the hole below a portable campsite shitter.


----------



## Ariosto (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ok, you're all resorting to personal insults and a condescending tone now. Stop it, please, that's not what a debate is about.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ariosto said:


> Ok, you're all resorting to personal insults and a condescending tone now. Stop it, please, that's not what a debate is about.



yeah shes not any better. anyways if your not debating one side or another theres no point in you commenting here. i will say what i please. dont like it? go away


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh great, I'm G.W. Bush and a toilet now. I thought we talked video games.



ShioBear said:


> yeah shes not any better. anyways if your not debating one side or another theres no point in you commenting here. i will say what i please. dont like it? go away


Saying I'm spewing shit outta my mouth is some kind of debate?


----------



## Ariosto (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> yeah shes not any better. anyways if your not debating one side or another theres no point in you commenting here. i will say what i please. dont like it? go away


That's why I said "all of you".
Your attitude makes me really tempted to pick a fight with you, but that wouldn't do either of us any good. Anyway, I'm here because there isn't even a side now, it's all rudeness and retorts. Use your same logic and pick the discussion back instead of insulting your opponent.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ariosto said:


> That's why I said "all of you".
> Your attitude makes me really tempted to pick a fight with you, but that wouldn't do either of us any good. Anyway, I'm here because there isn't even a side now, it's all rudeness and retorts. Use your same logic and pick the discussion back instead of insulting your opponent.


I suppose I haven't been the most mature person by mocking some people here but I genuinely just want to have a civil debate about video games.

But instead of answering properly to my arguments I'm told I spew shit outta my mouth and that I'm G.W. Bush. STILL no one has tried to refute me yet. :3c


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> STILL no one has tried to refute me yet. :3c



Really? 

People have disagreed with your views many times in this thread, but in each engagement you finish by saying that you're entitled to have your own views, as if that was _ever _under contention. ._.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Really?
> 
> People have disagreed with your views many times in this thread, but in each engagement you finish by saying that you're entitled to have your own views, as if that was _ever _under contention. ._.


I meant no one tried to refute my posts about how telling a woman not to criticize a male-dominated game and make her own game is like a baker telling a gay couple to get their wedding cake somewhere else, or to make their own.

And no one's being censored.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I meant no one tried to refute my posts about how telling a woman not to criticize a male-dominated game and make her own game is like a baker telling a gay couple to get their wedding cake somewhere else, or to make their own.
> 
> And no one's being censored.



first you said you wanted video games to be treated like every other form of art.
i  then stated this as a rebuttal because you obviously don't.

so you want video games to be treated like every other form of art? is that right? not a typo?

 well you see kellie. when i paint a picture of two white men driving a car. thats the end of it. its not racist, its not sexist, its not homophobic, its not transphobic.
its my painting and my vision. and when i make multiple prints to sell, it will not be changed it will be the same. and the deal is, if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. if you want the picture to have a black gay man, and a white trans woman then you are free to paint your own picture. you however do not have the power to twist my art into something you yourself deem fit.

the same goes for music. im writing a song about a black man walking to the market to buy some veggies. the people he meets are mean and call him names because he is wearing pink.
this is my vision. you are free to listen to it. if you want it to be about a gay japanese girl walking to buy fruit, and on the way get huggs from mexican men then fine write your own song. you however do not have the right to twist my artistic expression to fit your own needs.

the same goes for games. im making an adventure game where the protagonist is a white male. because that's how i see my game. im making him run across a land made of fire to rescue his lost love from a water breathing dragon. if you want the main character to be gay and rescuing a male, make your own game, if you want the kingdom to be water and the dragon to breath mayonnaise , then make your own game. the thing is. you don't have to buy it. but plenty of people want my game and they will be happy with it. who are you to change my vision. who are you to take my artistic expression away from me. and WHO ARE YOU to take the game so many people all ready love, away from them.

you didnt give any inteligent form of rebuttle just some broken logic comparing what i said to a homophobic bakery



Kellie Gator said:


> YOU KNOW. IF I DON'T WANT TO SERVE A WEDDING CAKE TO A PAIR OF FAGGOTS, DON'T FUCKING COME TO MY BAKERY. GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY INSTEAD OF CRYING DISCRIMINATION AT MY BAKERY.
> 
> Same logic.



yet you expect me to then give you a rebuttal to this  comment without first giving me a proper rebuttal to how what i said apparently makes no sense.

well fine i will give you what you want.
your comment makes no sense because  the games in question are there for the taking you can buy them if you wish, you dont have to be a certain sex or orientation to buy and enjoy them. they are a form of art and are made upon freedom of artistic expression.
unlike the homophobic bakery the game developer is not telling you that you cant buy or play the games they make. they are not being discriminatory, the games are for everyone  no matter how much you may disapprove of the games content. you are not excluded from participating.
the games industry is not  prohibiting anyone from playing the games they make.
the cake shop is prohibiting  people from buying a cake. 
your point makes no sense.
just because a game isn't the way you like it does not give you the right to demand it be changed for you. just like if my painting or song isn't the way you like it. if every game has to have every race, sexuality and gender involved in it in some way to make all the SJW feel included, then artistic expression goes out the door. you are now following  pre set guidelines.

you might as well throw art out the window.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> first you said you wanted video games to be treated like every other form of art.
> i  then stated this as a rebuttal because you obviously don't.
> 
> so you want video games to be treated like every other form of art? is that right? not a typo?
> ...


Responding to my post by repeating yourself. Sure, why not?

My point was that this "play another game/make your own" attitude toward criticism is the same as telling gays to go somewhere else to get their gay wedding cake.

Also, the power is in the artist. The audience can criticize, they can make demands, but the artist doesn't have to listen to demands. The artist can ignore demands.

Fans can demand a game is more diverse, developers can ignore their demands. No game has been censored because it was sexist, racist or homophobic. But plenty of games in various parts of the world have been censored or outright BANNED because of violent content or certain imagery like swastikas.

Why is it so bad to criticize a game?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Right, well, anyone else think this topic is long overdue for a lock?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Right, well, anyone else think this topic is long overdue for a lock?


just because you dont like it and dont want to be part of it does not mean it needs to be locked. people should be free to debate as they please without random people coming in saying " ohhh this again? ohh this is pointless blahh blahh".


----------



## Astrium (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> just because you dont like it and dont want to be part of it does not mean it needs to be locked. people should be free to debate as they please without random people coming in saying " ohhh this again? ohh this is pointless blahh blahh".



It's not that I don't like debate, it's that there is no debate anymore. It's just petty arguing. This thread is going nowhere and several people have already blocked each other over it. I think it's high time we let it die.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

im debating. im giving a logical rebuttal to pro sjw statements. if you dont want to participate then just leave it alone and go to another thread.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

insults and personal attacks count as debating?


----------



## FrostHusky81 (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> insults and personal attacks count as debating?



They do on these forums, unfortunatley.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> insults and personal attacks count as debating?



FAF be a strange place


----------



## rufe-squirrel (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Women, gays, and liberals should not worry so much about finding a place in the gaming world because in fact games are SHIT.
They are not productive and do nothing to better ones life and life goals.

Let the gamergate guys and other boys craving extreme masculine machismo blow their whole lives away in front of games while you go about making something of yourselves and the world a more diverse and inclusive place.  Thats all I have to say.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> insults and personal attacks count as debating?



lol of coarse cherry pick away.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol of coarse cherry pick away.



look dude,you gotta see that this thread is literally going nowhere and a huge majority of it has just been insults


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh and I'm a forum legend 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYnduDydzTQ


----------



## FrostHusky81 (Jul 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



DevilishlyHandsome49 said:


> Oh and I'm a forum legend
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYnduDydzTQ



That was almost too perfect :3


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I suppose this thread does need to be locked but I'm still wondering if I'll become upgraded from George W. Bush to Hitler. :V

Also:


ShioBear said:


> do you sit on the toilet shoulders first? because you talk out of your ass and there is enough shit coming out of you mouth hole to fill the hole below a portable campsite shitter.


_*I AM HAVING A DEBATE!!!1*_


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



rufe-squirrel said:


> Women, gays, and liberals should not worry so much about finding a place in the gaming world because in fact games are SHIT.
> They are not productive and do nothing to better ones life and life goals.
> 
> Let the gamergate guys and other boys craving extreme masculine machismo blow their whole lives away in front of games while you go about making something of yourselves and the world a more diverse and inclusive place.  Thats all I have to say.



Check out that passive-aggression.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I have no interest in "extreme masculine machismo", I just like vidya. 
I checked out a new game called Ark: Survival Evolved, and it looks rad as fuck. Check it out yall


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I suppose this thread does need to be locked but I'm still wondering if I'll become upgraded from George W. Bush to Hitler. :V
> 
> Also:
> 
> _*I AM HAVING A DEBATE!!!1*_


lol sure use one single post, and ignore all the well worded rebuttals to you crazy claims. as well as leaving out the many insulting things you have said. cherry pick away. your most of the reason  this thread went downhill.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Sargon posted a new video!

Beyond that, Gamergate gets an unfair rap from its opponents. At this point there's no excuse to *not* get educated on the matter. :\


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

yupp but make sure you dont offend anyone or they will keep bringing that up and ignore anything else you say. sargon is one of the smartest debaters on the subject.  and a very smart person over all. he knows whats up.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

God, I love Sargon. Tearing them a new asshole every chance he gets.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> God, I love Sargon. Tearing them a new asshole every chance he gets.


what do you think of thuderf00t? i love his complex explanations <3 and the accent helps


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> what do you think of thuderf00t? i love his complex explanations <3 and the accent helps



I've heard of him but I've never watched his videos. If he discusses feminism/Gamergate I'll check him out though.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I've heard of him but I've never watched his videos. If he discusses feminism/Gamergate I'll check him out though.



he does a lot XD i think you will like him


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I've heard of him but I've never watched his videos. If he discusses feminism/Gamergate I'll check him out though.


Would definitely recommend Thunderf00t for his scientific videos, as well as his debunkings of pseudoscience and his destruction of feminist/SJW logic.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Here are some good ones.

[yt]M4PDFaRPKM0[/yt]
(GWW is awesome)


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> DIDN'T YOU READ THE TITLE?
> 
> ANITA SARKEESIAN MUST BE STOPPED BECAUSE, uh... she talked about games. SHUT UP. ;w;


Because she has influence over the industry. Because people actually think she's right. A person who hasn't even played the games she's talked about. A person who said she disallows chances of criticism because some people post mean things. A person who has attacked men for creating an aggressive society after a school shooting occurred.

But never mind all that. Most of that isn't directly related to the videos she actually makes so this sort of criticism of her as a person is moot in relation to her and video games.

I was personally offended by some of the things she's said on Twitter


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> Because she has influence over the industry. Because people actually think she's right. A person who hasn't even played the games she's talked about.



Here's my favourite quote from Anita Sarkeesian:
"I'm not a fan of video games, I actually had to learn a lot about video games in the process of making this (video), and also, I would love to play video games but I don't want to go around shooting people and ripping off their heads, it's gross!!"


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> I was personally offended by some of the things she's said on Twitter


Were you? rofl, and people tell Anita to grow a thick skin and get over the death threats, bomb threats and shooting threats that made her cancel an event because of Utah's shitty gun laws.

Grow a spine, sheltered kid.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Here are some good ones.
> 
> [yt]M4PDFaRPKM0[/yt]
> (GWW is awesome)



everyone needs to watch this. the fact is its hard being a man in today's society where every man is seen as a rapist and a misogynist. im genderqueer but that doesn't help when i look like a straight up man and im labeled as such.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Not really video game related but since everyone seems to be on the topic of gender inequality and double standards:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...ets-accused-of-sexual-assault/article/2565978


Kellie Gator said:


> Were you? rofl, and people tell Anita to grow a thick skin and get over the death threats, bomb threats and shooting threats that made her cancel an event because of Utah's shitty gun laws.
> 
> Grow a spine, sheltered kid.


Well I wouldn't blame her for getting offended by what people tell her either. I was just ranting about her non-game things because of being offended. Although what I said at least makes it understandable why people would be adverse to what she has to say, video game related or not. She's very...unkind.

And I'm fine. I said I was offended, not that I had PTSD or something because of things she said.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> Not really video game related but since everyone seems to be on the topic of gender inequality and double standards:
> http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...ets-accused-of-sexual-assault/article/2565978
> Well I wouldn't blame her for getting offended by what people tell her either. I was just ranting about her non-game things because of being offended. Although what I said at least makes it understandable why people would be adverse to what she has to say, video game related or not. She's very...unkind.
> 
> And I'm fine. I said I was offended, not that I had PTSD or something because of things she said.


Fair enough. I'm just skeptical about the claim that she doesn't play video games. And if I was better at bookmarking thing I could at least provide an article where she says she is a fan of video games now.

'cause that's what matters. Just because she said once that she's not a fan doesn't mean that she will never, ever be a fan. It's not a constant, permanent position to not be a fan. She likes video games now... but perhaps not a lot of 'em, she ain't into violence. I can respect that but I still want the new Doom to come out already. D:

EDIT:
I still don't get why anyone would be offended by her statement unless they're some sheltered paranoid dude who can't handle a differing opinion and criticism.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> everyone needs to watch this. the fact is its hard being a man in today's society where every man is seen as a rapist and a misogynist. im genderqueer but that doesn't help when i look like a straight up man and im labeled as such.



I did watch it, and I thought the video was rambling and pointless.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I did watch it, and I thought the video was rambling and pointless.


MISANDRIST. >:[


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

why?


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Were you? rofl, and people tell Anita to grow a thick skin and get over the death threats, bomb threats and shooting threats that made her cancel an event because of Utah's shitty gun laws.
> 
> Grow a spine, sheltered kid.


Threats are nothing new, and if she recieved them, she needs to report them to the FBI. She also cancelled the event even though the local police declared the threats were not credible.

Beyond that, I don't see how she has any ground to stand on as she is a self admitted fraud and is a mouthpiece for Johnathan Macintosh. Block people if you want, but it won't change anything to help and would only serve to essentially stick your head in the sand.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Threats are nothing new, and if she recieved them, she needs to report them to the FBI.


She did. :I



Zuriak said:


> She also cancelled the event even though the local police declared the threats were not credible.


Credible or not the damn police couldn't even ensure her safety because of retarded gun laws. And should she really have taken the risk? Dozens or hundreds of people could've died.



Zuriak said:


> Beyond that, I don't see how she has any ground to stand on as she is a self admitted fraud


Define fraud. Anita saying she wasn't a fan of video games doesn't count. She wasn't back then, doesn't mean she isn't now.

And I only blocked two people, alright? I can handle differing opinions but when people don't wanna open up their minds and consider alternate viewpoints and possibilities it's fucking useless to attempt having a debate with them.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Threats are nothing new, and if she recieved them, she needs to report them to the FBI.



These types of lies are so often fabricated by the feminist/anti-GG movement that I'll only believe them once I've seen a police report.
I mean for Christ sakes, Breanna Wu literally forgot to log out of her own account before trying to stir up shit about herself.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I swear to god this is what some people in this thread actually believe about Anita.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

remember, you can point out crazy by the infamous problem glasses https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJmpjwuUkAAAhU2.jpg


----------



## Astrium (Jul 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> remember, you can point out crazy by the infamous problem glasses https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJmpjwuUkAAAhU2.jpg



You realize one of the words that chart says is used exclusively and without irony by SJWs is "gender-fluid", right? And thus by that logic you would be one too?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> You realize one of the words that chart says is used exclusively and without irony by SJWs is "gender-fluid", right? And thus by that logic you would be one too?



It also says cis.....???


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

meh its not perfect just funny but im sure someone will pick it apart and get all the scraps off the bones. really just saw it and thought it was funny. also lacy green... uhhg what a dumb ass.


----------



## CrazyLee (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh yay, gamer gate bullshit.

Which can be summed up in this way.

"Wahh wahh a feminist has an opinion I don't agree with and is taking away my precious video games that my fat ass worships while I sit in my basement, don't get a job, leech off my parents and be a loser. And without video games my life has absolutely no meaning! God forbid I wouldn't know what I would do with my life without them. I might kill myself!"

And what I've mostly seen over this argument is people attacking the person rather than the argument. Rather than debate the merits of what the feminists have to say, they call the feminists sluts, threaten to rape them, dox them, stalk them, harass them, and even threaten to shoot up a university, because of course video games are so important that someone MUST do a school shooting to protect them, or so the gamer logic goes.

You're not acting like a bunch of intellectual gamers. You're acting like a bunch of 5 year olds who are having your toys taken away, or threatened to be taken away, at least. One little threat on your precious games and you act like a bunch of damn children, assholes, and trolls.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



CrazyLee said:


> "Wahh wahh a feminist has an opinion I don't agree with and is taking away my precious video games that my fat ass worships while I sit in my basement, don't get a job, leech off my parents and be a loser. And without video games my life has absolutely no meaning! God forbid I wouldn't know what I would do with my life without them. I might kill myself!"




"And what I've mostly seen over this argument is people attacking the person rather than the argument."

Mkayy


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

look a pony. neih neih pony


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



CrazyLee said:


> Oh yay, gamer gate bullshit.
> 
> Which can be summed up in this way.
> 
> ...


I take it you have proof of this as an official Gamergate stance rather than blatant and baseless mudslinging and ad hominem in an attempt to belittle and discredit the other side? It's mind boggling, really, that you take the position you do -- I'd really love to hear what you have to say and why you think they way you do about GG because it seems you are a bit misguided in what it actually is. I'm willing to open a dialogue.



Kellie Gator said:


> She did. :I
> 
> 
> Credible or not the damn police couldn't even ensure her safety because of retarded gun laws. And should she really have taken the risk? Dozens or hundreds of people could've died.


The police dismissed it as not credible, and she has campus security escorting her. On top of that, let's not bring up gun laws -- it's a big can of worms that has no bearing in this conversation.




Kellie Gator said:


> Define fraud. Anita saying she wasn't a fan of video games doesn't count. She wasn't back then, doesn't mean she isn't now.


Well, Anita has a background in infomercials as well as purposely misrepresenting video games in order to further her agenda. I got a bunch more of these if you'd like to look them over. Almost NO ONE supports harassment and threats, though Anita isn't the only one. Thunderf00t's received them, as well as Jon Tron, John Bain, Boogie, and quite a few others. She and other of her caliber spin this into a narrative of some sort while playing professional victims. Did you know that one of BBC's reporters tried to ambush Sargon in an interview in order to tarnish Gamergate as some sort of hate movement? Yeah, this is the effect she and others like her is having. I also linked a Sargon video a bit earlier in the thread if you're interested in (third wave) Feminism's effect on first world society. 

All in all, I'm not even sure why folks support Anita Sarkeesian. She blatantly lies on a regular basis and people still support her agenda. In speaking of her agenda, I'm not even sure what she >wants< in video games. On a side note, I won't even call her a critic. As for you, I'm also willing to open a dialogue.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> The police dismissed it as not credible


I'm talking about another case where a report was forwarded to the FBI. Watch until 3:32.




Zuriak said:


> misrepresenting video games in order to further her agenda.


You know who else purposefully misrepresents video games and doesn't get death threats? The publishers releasing the games. Remember Aliens: Colonial Isolation. And since you're linking to a thunderf00t videos I have some bad news for you.



Zuriak said:


> Did you know that one of BBC's reporters tried to ambush Sargon in an interview in order to tarnish Gamergate as some sort of hate movement?


This isn't the first time I've heard of Sargon doing it, he also turned down an interview with David Pakman which proves that he can rant on YouTube just like other basement dwellers but he sure as fuck doesn't have the balls to actually stand up for himself.

He's a tool and a fucking pussy ass bitch. It'd be like if I just wormed my way out of this thread 'cause I was too scared to defend myself, rofl.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm talking about another case where a report was forwarded to the FBI. Watch until 3:32.


You do realize that many other have received threats a well and have also notified the authorities? Surprisingly they are not showboating about how the industry is against them and that they're the target of angry male gamers.




Kellie Gator said:


> You know who else purposefully misrepresents video games and doesn't get death threats? The publishers releasing the games. Remember Aliens: Colonial Isolation. And since you're linking to a thunderf00t videos I have some bad news for you.


Actually, publishers do get death deaths, even the execs as well. I'd recommend a quick Google search to satisfy your curiosity. As for that video, Anita is literally a professional victim. Her entire media presence is based upon the narrative of how she's under attack and all that. I can bring you a dozen articles if you like, it's no skin off my back.. The maker of the video is an intelligent guy, but his points are rather off the mark. Strippers in a strip club? Alright, they're objects for the plot. The security guards? Also objects for the plot. It's almost as if this is not relegated to gender at all and sexual gratification barely comes into this at all.


[





Kellie Gator said:


> This isn't the first time I've heard of Sargon doing it, he also turned down an interview with David Pakman which proves that he can rant on YouTube just like other basement dwellers but he sure as fuck doesn't have the balls to actually stand up for himself.
> 
> He's a tool and a fucking pussy ass bitch. It'd be like if I just wormed my way out of this thread 'cause I was too scared to defend myself, rofl.


Sargon doing what? Actually, in the video he detects this and circumvents the obvious attempt. Though your other statements are worrisome about your integrity in knowing your subject: I'd recommend taking a gander at Sargon's Twitter to see him engaging those of the opposite viewpoint. Additionally, he has conducted quite a few interviews with popular figures. Beyond that, if you're like to baselessly slander his character, you can do so on his Twitter page rather than on some random furry forum board. You're free to insult him, of course, but it doesn't validate your position any.

But why are we talking about harassment and threats? I was under the impression that we were discussing Anita's character (and lack thereof) alongside Feminism's effect on the gaming industry as well as society as a whole.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> But why are we talking about harassment and threats? I was under the impression that we were discussing Anita's character (and lack thereof) alongside Feminism's effect on the gaming industry as well as society as a whole.


I merely brought it up because the threats are real (as in, people really did threaten her). Wether they're credible or not is something I don't think we're right to judge, but that fact that she was driven outta her home must at least mean something, no?

Otherwise I don't see what there is to discuss about her character. She criticizes games. Sometimes we may not agree with her, sometimes she might be wrong like with the Tomb Raider winter clothes thing. She's a human being merely exercising her right to free speech and all humans are flawed and make mistakes, but the haters are so obsessive they just pick apart every single word she's ever said.

And this thread, well, it IS against freedom of speech, it wants to silence Anita, the thread title after all is "why Anita needs to stop". But the artists' freedom of speech must be protected. I know not everyone agrees with the OP but that's some serious hypocrisy, mate.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> "And what I've mostly seen over this argument is people attacking the person rather than the argument."
> 
> Mkayy



Fuck you* Volk I was going to say that.

*: gently


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> why?



The video focused on introductions for various people associated with the group 'a voice for men'. Little time was dedicated to the explanation of their arguments, while a lot of time was spent providing an impression of their characters, and discussing whether the language they used on twitter was appropriate.



CrazyLee said:


> Oh yay, gamer gate bullshit.
> 
> Which can be summed up in this way.
> 
> ...



I've tried to make it apparent in this thread that I'm not interested in computer games. 

I came across this topic by happen-stance, and just don't think that many of the claims that feminists such as Anita or Melody are making are appreciable or justified. 

For instance, complaining that if Mario rescues the princess that this will set a standard for real men to treat women as damsels in distress incapable of solving their own problems or making their own decisions. ...yeah and shoot-em-up games mean that their players will begin gunning down random civilians. 

I think there's a lot of hypocrisy too; how can one complain that video games treat women as damsels in distress, and decry this as patriarchal evil, whilst also being amongst the company of people who think that trolls on twitter gave them post traumatic stress disorder? 
Or who insist on Police escorts at conventions even after the Police, having spent tax-payer's money on investigations, conclude that no tangible threat is presented?
These are people who actually _do_ pretend to be distressed damsels in real life, but who complain that _fictional _damsels undermine the fair treatment of women.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

For those of you who think that Anita Sarkeesian is some almighty threat or that Social Justice Warrior pressure is impossible to resist, here's how easy it was for Bethesda's Pete Hines to not give a shit about how some people (probably Anita Sarkeesian included) felt about Doom being too violent.

*Shrug*

Criticism can easily be dismissed, you see.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> how some people (probably Anita Sarkeesian included) felt about Doom being too violent.



I loved that. Too much violence _against demons_.
Not people with a different religion/culture/skin colour, not nazi's, not evil cultists. Not elves, not dwarves or orks. Not even space-bugs.
_Demons_.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Kellie, it's possible to disagree with people's claims without believing that they threaten entire industries.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie, it's possible to disagree with people's claims without believing that they threaten entire industries.


Of course I know that, that was my bloody point. 

But a fair share of people in this thread believe that the views of Anita and/or "Social Justice Warriors" (a retarded term that's lost all meaning) ARE a threat to the gaming industry. It's a fallacious claim but disagreement is fine. I disagree with Anita on Doom.

Once again, read the thread title. SHE MUST BE STOPPED. >:[


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Once again, read the thread title. SHE MUST BE STOPPED. >:[



Er... it says 'she must stop'.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The media footprint may threaten sales, and the phenomenon of 'twitter-mobs' can actually result in people being sacked because of public outrage unrelated to their jobs. That's not exactly limited to games. 

I think more of us need to relax about people disagreeing with us, rather than trying to create pressure groups to get people with unsavoury opinions sacked.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Er... it says 'she must stop'.


Same thing as far as I'm concerned.



Fallowfox said:


> The media footprint may threaten sales, and the phenomenon of 'twitter-mobs' can actually result in people being sacked because of public outrage unrelated to their jobs. That's not exactly limited to games.
> 
> I think more of us need to relax about people disagreeing with us, rather than trying to create pressure groups to get people with unsavoury opinions sacked.


I know that in the case of movies the worst threat isn't bad publicity or piracy; it's failing at the box office, which can be for many reasons.

I'm not sure what to say about the Twitter mob thing. I don't know of a lot of those cases but I guess it can happen. Fortunately Joss Whedon wasn't "sacked" by the angry twitter mob that kept tweeting about how they wanted to punch Whedon in the face for Avengers: Age of Ultron.

And yeah, we should relax, probably. I just don't take kindly to people doing smear campaigns and wanting to silence critics.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Same thing as far as I'm concerned.



Well that's just bloody convenient isn't it?


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm still outraged at how twitter feminists got a pioneering scientist  to break down in tears and apologise over wearing a "sexist" shirt on  live tv that was given to him by one of his female friends!, apparently  him wearing that shirt mired the achievement of landing a space probe on  a moving comet because he was displaying how the scientific community  is still trying to keep women down in this sector when its not even the  bloody case, the same for what happened with Tim Hunt, twitter feminists  are downright vile and are besmirching what the movement was originally  intended to be. 

As for Anita, I still dislike her as a person,  she can spout her opinion all she wants because that's the joy of free  speech, and her getting death threats is still a downright insane thing  to be happening anyway, no one should have to suffer through that. 

The  thing what annoys me about Anita's critique when it comes to video  games is that she cherry picks way too much. She focuses way too much on  the negative aspect of women's portrayals but rarely sings of the  positive portrayals, especially when a game features both and when the positive outweighs the negative in the game, the positive  things don't exist, this is why I don't like her opinion when it comes to games. 

The  other thing that grinds my gears about Anita is, when male gamers and  such calls her out, she will often retort back but the female gamers or  other women who dislike her opinion and display it proudly, she  ignores their existence and I don't believe I have ever seen her respond  to the many women who dislike her opinion and her increasing  involvement in the gaming industry, the fact she even got some  ambassador award at a gaming event was just like......why!?


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

24 pages of this. 

 Gamergate never dies I suppose. Which would be a cool idea for a movie if you think about it.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> 24 pages of this.
> 
> Gamergate never dies I suppose. Which would be a cool idea for a movie if you think about it.



Question is, who would be the leading man and lady


p.s.

Butters! *hugs* hope your UK stay is going well


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> 24 pages of this.



Oh I've seen far, _far_ bigger.
Circles big and small, going round and round and round.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Question is, who would be the leading man and lady
> 
> 
> p.s.
> ...



There's this major mra dude on Youtube who uses an ancient king from the middle east as his avatar...he's pretty famous. Him and Anita. It'll be a secret romance with explosions and intrigue and maybe a little cock and tit action. I'm thinking something N-17. 

Also: *hugs you so tight* It's been wonderful. Border Control was a little scary but I'm safe and with my fiance and I've eaten so many good things and seen so much of your beautiful countryside and a tiny castle! (And been romantic >//////<) 

But it's nice to be on faf again. It's kinda odd not seeing you ppl. XD



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Oh I've seen far, _far_ bigger.
> Circles big and small, going round and round and round.



Murr


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> There's this major mra dude on Youtube who uses an ancient king from the middle east as his avatar...he's pretty famous. Him and Anita. It'll be a secret romance with explosions and intrigue and maybe a little cock and tit action. I'm thinking something N-17.
> 
> Also: *hugs you so tight* It's been wonderful. Border Control was a little scary but I'm safe and with my fiance and I've eaten so many good things and seen so much of your beautiful countryside and a tiny castle! (And been romantic >//////<)
> 
> ...



You'll be thinking of Sargon of Akkad, lmao those two together XD.

You know you miss us all dearly Butters, were would your life be without your daily dose of FAFicity


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> You'll be thinking of Sargon of Akkad, lmao those two together XD.
> 
> You know you miss us all dearly Butters, were would your life be without your daily dose of FAFicity


 Yes...I wonder where... (But actually FAF kinda got me more places than my real life did so that's something to think about)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Well that's just bloody convenient isn't it?


It's really the same as the difference between telling someone to shut up or shutting them up. People don't like free speech much in this thread.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It's really the same as the difference between telling someone to shut up or shutting them up. People don't like free speech much in this thread.



Shut up. Shut up right now. I'm telling you to shut up with all my might.

Doesn't work does it? So yeah, pretty big difference.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Social Justice warriors are a threat to this country


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> Social Justice warriors are a threat to this country



lol


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Yes...I wonder where... (But actually FAF kinda got me more places than my real life did so that's something to think about)



That realisation hit me the other day, the fact Kage would not be in my life if it wasn't for this fandom is quite scary


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Shut up. Shut up right now. I'm telling you to shut up with all my might.
> 
> Doesn't work does it? So yeah, pretty big difference.



i wouldn't bother  refuting her claims is apparently taking away her freedom of speech. that's 3rd wave feminist logic for you.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Shut up. Shut up right now. I'm telling you to shut up with all my might.
> 
> Doesn't work does it? So yeah, pretty big difference.


Hey, I never said attempting to silence Anita Sarkeesian and telling her to stop was working. If it did we wouldn't even have this thread.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I'm still outraged at how twitter feminists got a pioneering scientist  to break down in tears and apologise over wearing a "sexist" shirt on  live tv that was given to him by one of his female friends!, apparently  him wearing that shirt mired the achievement of landing a space probe on  a moving comet because he was displaying how the scientific community  is still trying to keep women down in this sector when its not even the  bloody case, the same for what happened with Tim Hunt, twitter feminists  are downright vile and are besmirching what the movement was originally  intended to be.


yeah that's  millennial feminists or 3rd wave feminists. its basically a hate movement. lol #killallmen is a thing they started. they tend to poison everything they touch. they even attacked one of their own joss whedon, after he made age of ultron, just because a character in the movie hated herself for not being able to have a kid. they screamed patriarchy till the cows came home. im sterile.... it makes me really sad and i have man parts, how is that misogyny. lol these new feminists are evil people.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I think we should all rely on TotalBiscuit for video game critique. He's fucking hilarious and doesn't take anybody's shit.

I also think we need more strong female characters in games like Cassandra Pentaghast and Elena Fisher. Nothing sexier than a woman who can kick your ass.

Finally, I reported this thread like 24 hours ago, so I guess the Powers That Be have decided to let it live for whatever reason.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I think we should all rely on TotalBiscuit for video game critique. He's fucking hilarious and doesn't take anybody's shit.
> 
> I also think we need more strong female characters in games like Cassandra Pentaghast and Elena Fisher. Nothing sexier than a woman who can kick your ass.
> 
> Finally, I reported this thread like 24 hours ago, so I guess the Powers That Be have decided to let it live for whatever reason.


if you dont like this thread why are you posting?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> if you dont like this thread why are you posting?



The personal attacks and arguments seem to have died down for the time being. Seems safe to poke my head out of my foxhole again.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> The personal attacks and arguments seem to have died down for the time being. Seems safe to poke my head out of my foxhole again.



it was mainly because pepeh-le-pew was slandering and making everyone really angry, basically at this point im considering her a troll. blocked her and im going to have a civil debate.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Feminists are just basic bitches who couldn't get laid.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I think we should all rely on TotalBiscuit for video game critique. He's fucking hilarious and doesn't take anybody's shit.


TotalBiscuit ain't terrible at reviewing, he just seems kinda gullible and tries so hard to be "objective" with reviewing that he had to cancel a review of some game because of an e-argument he had.

Yahtzee will always be my favorite cynical brit... who lives in Australia but that's besides the point. <3



Sylox said:


> Feminists are just basic bitches who couldn't get laid.


You're one to talk.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> You're one to talk.



lol true, but I'm not a basic bitch :V


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> lol true, but I'm not a basic bitch :V


I'm pretty sure Zoe Quinn got laid... I don't mean to open up that can of worms, just saying. :V


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> Feminists are just basic bitches who couldn't get laid.



More lol.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

First of all, can we please stop it with calling women "bitches" or "basic bitches".

Second, I wanted to post about this last night but I forgot to. This is in regards to the "it's only okay if I do it" mentality amongst feminists and SJW.
Breanna Wu is another whiner who thinks the game industry is gross, misogynist, Gamergate is bad, etc. So she set out to make her own video game to combat these horrible images of women!!

by..
uhhh
creating a game with waif-thin women in skin-tight suits.....
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...ogressive,q_80,w_320/dy7tjjaaudc2xe6qufk7.jpg

ermm.. uhh
https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/7/73/Moreggbatch22.jpg

I'm going to spare you the robot tentacle rape art involving these vidya game characters.


If you want even more evidence to discredit this dummy:
"Gamergate forced me out of my house!!! Threts 2 wimmin!!"
https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/9/96/Brianna_Wu_Lying.jpg

https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/5/58/Morewu.jpg

Errrr *sweats*
I don't recall!!! End of discussion!


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> First of all, can we please stop it with calling women "bitches" or "basic bitches".


Agreed.

@Kellie Gator: Aside from that, to say Anita and SJW aren't a threat to the gaming industry is somewhat inane. Don't underestimate what a group on angry people can accomplish to change something they don't like, it's pretty scary.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Agreed.
> 
> @Kellie Gator: Aside from that, to say Anita and SJW aren't a threat to the gaming industry is somewhat inane. Don't underestimate what a group on angry people can accomplish to change something they don't like, it's pretty scary.


yeah there has been man instances of controlled harassment by SJW's to force people into taking content down. like changing the dc batman cover. the cover was fine.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Agreed.
> 
> @Kellie Gator: Aside from that, to say Anita and SJW aren't a threat to the gaming industry is somewhat inane. Don't underestimate what a group on angry people can accomplish to change something they don't like, it's pretty scary.


I suppose that depends on what you define as a threat, personally I don't see what kind possible bad consequences could occur from this, since clearly not everyone listens to criticism, as I proved with the Doom video.

But really, so far no one's been forced into anything, they merely chose to listen and give into demands. That's the developer's choice and responsibility.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't see what's wrong with the word "bitch". It's a word...deal with it. Put your big boy pants on and stop letting PC dictate how you think.

OT: I think a much bigger problem is these game developers paying tons of $$$ for favorable reviews. That shit irks me.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You are using a gendered slur in an attempt to degrade women.
See, I don't care about the word "bitch". I use this word day in and day out, but my issue is when you use a gendered slur (or any slur in particular) specifically to degrade someone with that slur.

My cat is a bitch
I am not degrading my cat by saying this.

If I were to say.. "I hate basic bitches", that is degrading.

This is the same reason why I don't use the word "cunt". My sister found it offensive and I dropped it from my vocabulary (although I do still like to call my cat a cunt when she's acting like a dumbass, I don't use this towards women)

There's a difference between saying "basic bitch" and say.. "my friend is being such a bitch". One refers to gendered insult, the other is basically saying the person is rude.


"Basic bitch" is insulting because it's gendered and the entire use of the word is to insult gender, it's not saying that the chick/person is rude, it's not saying they're being snippy or argumentative.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I suppose that depends on what you define as a threat, personally I don't see what kind possible bad consequences could occur from this, since clearly not everyone listens to criticism, as I proved with the Doom video.
> 
> But really, so far no one's been forced into anything, they merely chose to listen and give into demands. That's the developer's choice and responsibility.


Actually I respect developers that want to accomplish their vision. For example, Kingdom Come: Deliverance. What I don't respect is changing game content because people are offended by it, and threaten various reactions to it from boycott to defamation. Example: Pillars of Eternity. It's a sad fact that groups can petition and drag a name through the mud in order to get something changed -- and SJWs have been doing this quite a bit in the games community. There's also the issue of forced diversity for the sake of diversity, but that's probably another topic for another time.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ohhhh okay, now I understand what you're saying Volk. Yeah, that's kind of offensive. Fine, I'll refrain from saying the world "bitch" when referring to women. 



Zuriak said:


> There's also the issue of forced diversity for the sake of diversity, but that's probably another topic for another time.



That's starting to permeate into Hollywood. The new Ghostbusters movie is a perfect example of what forced diversity can do.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

i really dont get the point in having a rule 63 ghost busters movie.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

And if the director doesn't get the female main cast just right its damn well guaranteed the twitter feminists will kick up a shitstorm about it


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> And if the director doesn't get the female main cast just right its damn well guaranteed the twitter feminists will kick up a shitstorm about it



yeah and your going to be hearing stuff like "their breasts are to big" or "her breasts are to small, what are they men?"


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> Ohhhh okay, now I understand what you're saying Volk. Yeah, that's kind of offensive. Fine, I'll refrain from saying the world "bitch" when referring to women.



Ahh okay thank you, I didn't think that I was explaining it well enough.
While I was away cooking, I realised that a better way of explaining it would be to compare say.... "my friend is such a bitch", verses the phrases so common in rap music nowadays that refer to "my bitch" this and "my bitch" that.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tyga/rackcity.html


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> OT: I think a much bigger problem is these game developers paying tons of $$$ for favorable reviews. That shit irks me.



Seriously though, if #Gamergate really cares about ethics in gaming journalism, do something about this. And find a better name, "#Gamergate" is like three different levels of dumb.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

there are appropriate times however. im not friends with this person anymore but they used to basically use me for my car. and one time i wouldnt go to pick up her boyfriend and she went on about how i wasn't really a good friend. so i called her a cunt. because she was being a cunt. i dont see a problem if they are being what your describing them as. sometimes people are cunts.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Seriously though, if #Gamergate really cares about ethics in gaming journalism, do something about this. And find a better name, "#Gamergate" is like three different levels of dumb.


That's also something that GG is against, though more times than not it is already known that large companies pay for favorable reviews; this is why Metacritic and Steam Ratings/Curators are very popular right now as they give the users a chance to review contents themselves. Of course, we're also against the non-disclosure of receiving compensation for favorable reviews and/or to push a certain product. It only takes a quick Google search to find out that a sizeable portion of gamers don't support the aforementioned favor system.

Additionally, many sites that opposed GG have updated their ethics policies as well as having the FTC investigating here and there with Gawker as one of the prime suspects.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If Valve has to pay X for a favorable review of say Half Life 3, then that tells me one thing:

The game is shit and they know it.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> If Valve has to pay X for a favorable review of say Half Life 3, then that tells me one thing:
> 
> The game is shit and they know it.



see:
zoe quinn


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> see:
> zoe quinn



This comment makes no sense.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> This comment makes no sense.


"If Valve has to pay X for a favorable review of say Half Life 3, then that tells me one thing:
The game is shit and they know it." 

If Zoe has to fuck someone for a favorable review of her game, then that tells me one thing:
The game is shit and she knows it.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> "If Valve has to pay X for a favorable review of say Half Life 3, then that tells me one thing:
> The game is shit and they know it."
> 
> If Zoe has to fuck someone for a favorable review of her game, then that tells me one thing:
> The game is shit and she knows it.



The problem being that I have never seen that confirmed to have happened.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://thezoepost.wordpress.com/

On top of that, she and her compatriots were caught advertising for each other without revealing their relationships. My memory is fuzzy but I can dig it up if you need to see it.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> The problem being that I have never seen that confirmed to have happened.



....
The Zoe Quinn thing ("Quinnspiracy") is huge in Gamergate
"Gamergate is about corruption in game journalism"
??!?!?!?!?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> https://thezoepost.wordpress.com/



Nice blog. Now give me something that's been independently validated. The blog posted by her ex-boyfriend that originally made the claims and started this whole shitstorm doesn't count.

And yes, I read the whole thing.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Nice blog. Now give me something that's been independently validated. The blog posted by her ex-boyfriend that originally made the claims and started this whole shitstorm doesn't count.
> 
> And yes, I read the whole thing.



I read an account by an ex-friend of her who had photos to prove that they were working together, that vouched for the accuracy of the accusations
i CBA going to find it now but yeah its legit, it happened.
it was about some sort of weird porno shoot IIRC.

god forbid someone accuse a woman of using a pussypass to get her way
this is unbelievable accusation
i need proof


zoe: gamergate said for me to kill myself
astrium: gamergate is shit! they tell people to kill themselves!


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I read an account by an ex-friend of her who had photos to prove that they were working together, that vouched for the accuracy of the accusations
> i CBA going to find it now but yeah its legit, it happened.
> it was about some sort of weird porno shoot IIRC.



Can you find me something by somebody who has no connection to Zoe or her ex, like Snopes or something? Neutrality is important here.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Can you find me something by somebody who has no connection to Zoe or her ex, like Snopes or something? Neutrality is important here.



http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/quinnspiracy


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/quinnspiracy



As a Wiki that can be publicly edited, I'm inclined to distrust KYM.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> As a Wiki that can be publicly edited, I'm inclined to distrust KYM.



Why would any website like Snopes have a page on gamergate drama?
Google this shit, dude. You're going to shoot down eveyr link I give you 

KYM is non-biased btw.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> KYM is non-biased btw.



KYM is non-biased, true, but it can be edited by anybody and people can be very, very biased. As for Googling it goes, I get a lot of conflicting results, some pretty credible, some less so, but I've yet to find anything that empiricially proves it did or did not happen. Until that time, I doubt it did, because why would anyone go that far for reviews on a free game?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

how do you explain how a game which isn't even really a game, a really badly made shit game got to the top of the charts via extremely embellished seemingly copy pasted articles on multiple sites? its worse than a 1 dollar flash game on the xbox live indie market about stickmen. its not all about credible sources. its also about common sense. how did a shit game get called an amazing masterpiece by tons of  gaming journalists, who by the way, meet on a regular basis. how do you explain the so called gaming journalists attacking the integrity of gamers by basically insulting them in multiple articles, after gamers got suspicious about a shit not-game making its way to the top of the charts dictated by the gaming journalists. its just common sense.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Remember GameJournosPro?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> KYM is non-biased, true, but it can be edited by anybody and people can be very, very biased. As for Googling it goes, I get a lot of conflicting results, some pretty credible, some less so, but I've yet to find anything that empiricially proves it did or did not happen. Until that time, I doubt it did, because why would anyone go that far for reviews on a free game?



Do you also believe Anita and Breanna Wu received death threats and were chased out of their houses? Lol


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Remember GameJournosPro?



oh yeah lol. you hear about matt clark's meltdown?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> how do you explain how a game which isn't even really a game, a really badly made shit game got to the top of the charts via extremely embellished seemingly copy pasted articles on multiple sites? its worse than a 1 dollar flash game on the xbox live indie market about stickmen. its not all about credible sources. its also about common sense. how did a shit game get called an amazing masterpiece by tons of  gaming journalists, who by the way, meet on a regular basis. how do you explain the so called gaming journalists attacking the integrity of gamers by basically insulting them in multiple articles, after gamers got suspicious about a shit not-game making its way to the top of the charts dictated by the gaming journalists. its just common sense.



I think it might have something to do with the message that the game conveys rather than just the game itself. And what exactly is so bad about it? I've seen a few screencaps, but never played the game myself. It looks perfectly fine to me.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I think it might have something to do with the message that the game conveys rather than just the game itself. And what exactly is so bad about it? I've seen a few screencaps, but never played the game myself. It looks perfectly fine to me.



its not a good game go play it. its  riding on the coat tails of depression culture. its not even really a game. compared to all the other indie games its a 1 out of 20 at best.


on another note here's anita  blaming men for mass shootings https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJr3GifUAAAB7MJ.jpg


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> its not a good game go play it. its  riding on the coat tails of depression culture. its not even really a game. compared to all the other indie games its a 1 out of 20 at best.



I just finished my first playthrough and I honestly don't understand the massive amount of hate it gets. Seems perfcetly fine to me. To be honest, I quite liked it.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Look, Astrium, just stop, these people are not going to give you a credible source 'cause of their massive hate boners.

And, you know, Depression Quest said in the introduction that it's not supposed to be fun.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> And, you know, Depression Quest said in the introduction that it's not supposed to be fun.



 Depression not fun? What new spore of madness is this?


----------



## Sylox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't understand why people waste time on these review sites/channels for games...then again, I haven't touched a game in over 5 months, so...


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Depression not fun? What new spore of madness is this?


My memory's a bit fuzzy me and I don't have a lot of sources but I remember that one thing that sorta put Zoe on the radar were a bunch of man children who were mad because they thought women couldn't be depressed or something. I wish I had some material to verify this but I don't trust google to do my job here. Something that people on the net should learn to understand.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Let's set the theme, here's some appropriate music.

It's very clear that neither of your have read that wordpress. It's very clear from her own admission that she had engaged in relationships with others. Cry for proof all you want, but it's right frickin' there in front of you. I can screen cap if you're feeling navigationally challenged because I want it to be clear that Quinn did engage in unprofessional behavior in this manner and that of favor-for-a-favor means with friends for the purpose of visibility. She also wanted visibility for her own funding, and she tanked the Fine Young Capitalists over it.

On top of all that, she also has the court issue a gag order on Eron Gjoni. There was a push a little while back to raise funds to try and get it overturned, but I'm not sure what became of it -- but pretty much gagging the person of whom had solid evidence for your breach of social and professional protocol is a red glad amongst red flags.

I'm not sure why this woman is being defended, her caliber of character appears to be left severely lacking in any form of credibility, professionalism and decency. If you wanted to back anything Feminism related, you should've supported the Fine Young Capitalists. #GamerGate is not some amalgamation of evil, mudslinging neckbeards who want (insert talking point about misogyny or harassment here). If you're interested in what started all this, I'd take a gander here. You'll probably brush me off, but put down the keyboard and take a step back to look at this from a different perspective other than essentially accusing me of dishonesty -- because you'll get slam dunked.

Ball's in your court.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Let's set the theme, here's some appropriate music.



*dances on his couch* I wish more people would do post themes. >///<


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> *dances on his couch* I wish more people would do post themes. >///<



*dances with you* This cycle may never stop repeating but at least its now got an awesome groovy tune! \>o</


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> It's very clear that neither of your have read that wordpress.


Why the fuck should we, it's a wordpress and it's a a wordpress that's written by the most biased source one could possibly imagine, HER FUCKING EX-BOYFRIEND.



Zuriak said:


> Cry for proof all you want, but it's right frickin' there in front of you.


I know, right? The Zionists CLEARLY made up the holocaust to support their cultural marxist agenda. If only people would google they would find hard proof that the supposed six million dead jews was just a hoax constructed to execute a global white genocide! When will people learn and wake up to the hard proof that's out there?!



Zuriak said:


> On top of all that, she also has the court issue a gag order on Eron Gjoni.


Oh, you mean the guy who e-begs for money in a way that Zoe Quinn haven't so he could violate his restraining order against her? rofl


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

To play Devil's Advocate here, its only fair you go half way to read some of that you know, if you expect people to read any sources you put, its only fair they expect you to read theirs, if this is truly a debate then that's only fair right?, I don't particularly lean any way in this whole debate despite some of the things I've said as they've just been my personal opinions of Anita herself and the way a wave of twitter feminists are, still irritated over the fact they reduced a great scientist to tears over a damn shirt.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Why the fuck should we, it's a wordpress and it's a a wordpress that's written by the most biased source one could possibly imagine, HER FUCKING EX-BOYFRIEND.
> 
> 
> I know, right? The Zionists CLEARLY made up the holocaust to support their cultural marxist agenda. If only people would google they would find hard proof that the supposed six million dead jews was just a hoax constructed to execute a global white genocide! When will people learn and wake up to the hard proof that's out there?!
> ...


Except the word press has hard proof on it. And the other links help to paint a picture of what this person your defending actually is.

It's abundantly clear that you're not interested in a honest discussion. Until such a time as put in enough effort to construct a counter argument with as much veracity as you do in your moves to be dismissive and sarcastic, I'll return the same treatment and not take you seriously in return.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I don't particularly lean any way in this whole debate despite some of the things I've said as they've just been my personal opinions of Anita herself and the way a wave of twitter feminists are, still irritated over the fact they reduced a great scientist to tears over a damn shirt.



Honestly, I think he was being over dramatic when he did that.  It inspires a chuckle from me, not sympathy. Especially because there is so much more to cry about in this world.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Honestly, I think he was being over dramatic when he did that.  It inspires a chuckle from me, not sympathy. Especially because there is so much more to cry about in this world.



Probably, I just don't like to see a grown man cry on TV, plucks at the heart strings a little bit x3  and there is, there is so much more to cry about in the world.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Probably, I just don't like to see a grown man cry on TV, plucks at the heart strings a little bit x3  and there is, there is so much more to cry about in the world.


To be perfectly fair, he has achieved a great scientific feat and the reception he got was a bunch of angry attention about his shirt and having to apologize to the world. I'd probably be reduced to tears as well. I feel for the guy, feminists have better issues to attack that a guy's shirt. :|


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Probably, I just don't like to see a grown man cry on TV, plucks at the heart strings a little bit x3  and there is, there is so much more to cry about in the world.



What shocked me was his comfortability (fucking spellcheck thinks that isn't a word lol) with crying in public. Men have a very stoic culture and see that as a weakness. So why did he do it so easily? I'm a suspicious person I suppose. (But I think he did it to gain sympathy.)  

He's not much of an important target though. Don't know why that one article hounded him so much.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> What shocked me was his comfortability (fucking spellcheck thinks that isn't a word lol) with crying in public. Men have a very stoic culture and see that as a weakness. So why did he do it so easily? I'm a suspicious person I suppose. (But I think he did it to gain sympathy.)
> 
> He's not much of an important target though. Don't know why that one article hounded him so much.



I'm not a very stoic person, so I tend to cry very easily if something specifically affects me, don't really care about the stoic enforcement men apparently need to hold on to, honestly only time stoicism kicks is in when a friend is crying and I need to be strong for them or when it concerns death of family and friends, it never quite hits me until much later.

As for the scientist, crocodile tears are generally very obvious but who knows, only he knows I guess and it ain't for us to know, alas its part of the past now.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> To play Devil's Advocate here, its only fair you go half way to read some of that you know, if you expect people to read any sources you put, its only fair they expect you to read theirs


Two words; source criticism. I'll happily read some links but only if they're provided by sources that aren't shit. A blog post by a fucking ex-boyfriend trying to violate a restraining order and wanting to put Zoe in therapy is a shit source.



Zuriak said:


> Except the word press has hard proof on it.


I refer you to my previous statement;


Kellie Gator said:


> I know, right? The Zionists CLEARLY made up the holocaust to support their cultural marxist agenda. If only people would google they would find hard proof that the supposed six million dead jews was just a hoax constructed to execute a global white genocide! When will people learn and wake up to the hard proof that's out there?!





Zuriak said:


> And the other links help to paint a picture of what this person your defending actually is.


Ah yes, there is no such thing as undeserved harassment, is there? There must always be a reason, something she has done to deserve it, let's play devil's advocate and pass around blame because we can't live with the fact that bad behavior doesn't justify harassment.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I'm not a very stoic person, so I tend to cry very easily if something specifically affects me, don't really care about the stoic enforcement men apparently need to hold on to, honestly only time stoicism kicks is in when a friend is crying and I need to be strong for them or when it concerns death of family and friends, it never quite hits me until much later.
> 
> As for the scientist, crocodile tears are generally very obvious but who knows, only he knows I guess and it ain't for us to know, alas its part of the past now.



We're gay anyway so we're all just puffs (just discovered that word from an "IT crowd" episode. Such cute slurs this place has) and faggots and women in male form so crying is natural to us. :VVV 

But yeah. It's yesterday's news. Much like Gamergate really.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> We're gay anyway so we're all just puffs (just discovered that word from an "IT crowd" episode. Such cute slurs this place has) and faggots and women in male form so crying is natural to us. :VVV
> 
> But yeah. It's yesterday's news. Much like Gamergate really.



The word Faggots bothers me to an extent but then I just think of the very tasty food with the same name and stop caring xD I've not heard puff for such a long time, were I am it was always something the dumb as rocks teenagers spouted, still remember one guy who tried to bully me by going "Fancy a bum?" and I was like eew no, you're a disgusting cretin.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> The word Faggots bothers me to an extent but then I just think of the very tasty food with the same name and stop caring xD I've not heard puff for such a long time, were I am it was always something the dumb as rocks teenagers spouted, still remember one guy who tried to bully me by going "Fancy a bum?" and I was like eew no, you're a disgusting cretin.



Words are weird. To even pronounce "puff" you have to look like you are puckering your lips for a kiss. "Faggot" rhymes with "baguette" which is french. So it sounds fancy. So you have to reduce it to fag to make it sound tougher/harsher. It's interesting to hear "You got a fag?" here and for it to mean a completely different thing. XD

Surreal.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Ah yes, there is no such thing as undeserved harassment, is there? There must always be a reason, something she has done to deserve it, let's play devil's advocate and pass around blame because we can't live with the fact that bad behavior doesn't justify harassment.


You don't have to like the source, the picture evidence is certainly nothing to scoff at.

Additionally, the video you link claims that she's being harassed because A) she's a woman, and B) she put a game on Steam's Greenlight. While I won't deny there do exist folks who hate her for get gender (misogynists and misandrists do exist, unfortunately), to dismiss criticism of her character and dealings as "harassment" is utter bullshit. There are a myriad of reasons for why she should be looked down upon, but certainly not harassed. And yes, you DO need evidence of harassment rather than claiming it happened. And criticism are not harassment. And no, I don't endorse harassment. And no, the major players of GamerGate do not endorse harassment either. On top of that, they has been plenty of harassment from the anti-gg side but I'm not discussing it because >it's not relevant to this discussion<.

Seriously, stop talking about harassment. Ironically you're making her into a damsel in distress.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> You don't have to like the source, the picture evidence is certainly nothing to scoff at.


I dunno how much abundantly clear I need to be at this point.

There is "evidence" of everything on the net. "Evidence" that the holocaust is a hoax, "evidence" that the holocaust was carried out by gays and that the Nazi party was formed in a gay bar, "evidence" of chemtrails, reptilian overlords, 9/11 being an inside job, etc. Saying something is evidence doesn't necessarily make it so, I'm simply demanding that people try harder. 

As for the rest of your post, I know I've jokingly compared you to a holocaust denier but that you seem to so passionately deny, downplay, or trivialize harassment of Zoe Quinn and deny that GamerGate does harass people is rather alarming. She's faced more than just "criticism of her character". I'm not accusing you specifically of harassment, but you sure like to make the harassment into less of a big deal than it actually is.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno how much abundantly clear I need to be at this point.
> 
> There is "evidence" of everything on the net. "Evidence" that the holocaust is a hoax, "evidence" that the holocaust was carried out by gays and that the Nazi party was formed in a gay bar, "evidence" of chemtrails, reptilian overlords, 9/11 being an inside job, etc. Saying something is evidence doesn't necessarily make it so, I'm simply demanding that people try harder.
> 
> As for the rest of your post, I know I've jokingly compared you to a holocaust denier but that you seem to so passionately deny, downplay, or trivialize harassment of Zoe Quinn and deny that GamerGate does harass people is rather alarming. She's faced more than just "criticism of her character". I'm not accusing you specifically of harassment, but you sure like to make the harassment into less of a big deal than it actually is.


Ooookay. But you're not connecting the dots, nor are you trying to take me seriously. But she did admit to fucking up on top of many other things, such as having Eron gagged legally. You can claim it's because he was harassing her, but c'mon.

And yes, I am downplaying the harassment she received because she and others who support her are using it as a shield to defend her character. And no, I have NOT stated that GamerGate doesn't harass people. Only that the informal leaders don't endorse it. I admitted in my post that there exists groups of people who will harass anyways.

Again, harassment goes both ways. Again, many do not support it. Again, can we stop using it as a shield? Because GamerGate people get doxxed, harassed, threatened, etc etc etc as well. Quinn is not a unique snowflake. What do you define as harassment? What does she define as harassment? Does she has proof of these phone calls or receiving child porn with he name on it? I have no doubt she has received it, but so have the other major players. You don't get a free pass because of your gender, I'm sorry.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Two words; source criticism. I'll happily read some links but only if they're provided by sources that aren't shit. A blog post by a fucking ex-boyfriend trying to violate a restraining order and wanting to put Zoe in therapy is a shit source.
> 
> 
> I refer you to my previous statement;
> ...





Is anyone even surprised that Zoe's boyfriends have restraining orders? 

Friggin' hilarious. x3

This reads like a bad soap opera.



Butters Shikkon said:


> We're gay anyway so *we're all just puffs*  (just discovered that word from an "IT crowd" episode. Such cute slurs  this place has) and faggots and women in male form so crying is natural  to us. :VVV
> 
> But yeah. It's yesterday's news. Much like Gamergate really.



I suspect you mean 'poof' rather than 'puff'.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Is anyone even surprised that Zoe's boyfriends have restraining orders?
> 
> Friggin' hilarious. x3
> 
> ...



XD Yeah. Poof is even cuter than puff though. Everything is so adorable here.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> And no, I have NOT stated that GamerGate doesn't harass people. Only that the informal leaders don't endorse it. I admitted in my post that there exists groups of people who will harass anyways.


They don't endorse it but they won't condemn it. Comfortably convenient, no?



Zuriak said:


> Because GamerGate people get doxxed, harassed, threatened, etc etc etc as well. Quinn is not a unique snowflake. What do you define as harassment? What does she define as harassment? Does she has proof of these phone calls or receiving child porn with he name on it? I have no doubt she has received it, but so have the other major players. You don't get a free pass because of your gender, I'm sorry.


I'm very skeptical to the claims that harassment of GGers is as bad as GGers make it out to be, I only know of one verified case, myself. I mean, it might be possible but if it was as bad as with some of these gaming women then the mainstream media would've picked up on it. Unless, of course they cover it up, since the mainstream media's clearly controlled by the zionists. :V


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Guys. You guys can stop arguing about who sends who death threats, because I've made twitter accounts and sent both sides death threats and images of goatse. 

Now everyone can be happy, k?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Guys. You guys can stop arguing about who sends who death threats, because I've made twitter accounts and sent both sides death threats and images of goatse.
> 
> Now everyone can be happy, k?



In the future, this is how all conflicts will be resolved.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> In the future, this is how all conflicts will be resolved.


World peace through goatse! Make it happen. <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The amount of hyperbole that is spewed in here is embarrassing.

Why aren't feminists complaining about things that matter?
Why is it that they idolize people like mattress girl and sit on their hands all the time on important issues?


Cause its easier to say youre a feminist than to do anything


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Why is it that they idolize people like mattress girl and sit on their hands all the time on important issues?



That woman carried her mattress like jesus carried his cross.

and they each got nailed 3 times on them voluntarily


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> That woman carried her mattress like jesus carried his cross.
> 
> and they each got nailed 3 times on them voluntarily



oh
my
god
gibe
oh my god
my day = made, this is the best post on the forums


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> oh
> my
> god
> gibe
> ...



true


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> They don't endorse it but they won't condemn it. Comfortably convenient, no?
> 
> 
> I'm very skeptical to the claims that harassment of GGers is as bad as GGers make it out to be, I only know of one verified case, myself. I mean, it might be possible but if it was as bad as with some of these gaming women then the mainstream media would've picked up on it. Unless, of course they cover it up, since the mainstream media's clearly controlled by the zionists. :V


The largest proponents for GG do not endorse harassment. Secondly, I've seen the SJW crowd spew out quite a bit of vitriol and hatred to their opponents -- care to address that? Here is one of the places you can find it: http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/

I'm done talking about harassment -- and Quinn isn't relevant anymore as she keeps trying to inject herself into this with bigger and bigger claims. Last time she said she received child porn and dead babies with her name photoshopped on it. You might have a giant boner for victimization and not letting people talk responsibility for their actions, but I and many like me don't see it your way. If you'd care to address the root concern of this thread regarding Anita and Feminism, you're welcome to.



Fallowfox said:


> Guys. You guys can stop arguing about who sends who death threats, because I've made twitter accounts and sent both sides death threats and images of goatse.
> 
> Now everyone can be happy, k?


I've been trying to navigate past it, but it seems they keep bringing it up. *shrug*


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> The largest proponents for GG do not endorse harassment.


But they don't condemn it, like I just said. Nice reading comprehension.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

do we really want someone who thinks people need to be segregated by race and sex to have the power they have over gaming? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJr4ZRLVAAECF22.jpg


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> do we really want someone who thinks people need to be segregated by race and sex to have the power they have over gaming? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJr4ZRLVAAECF22.jpg



Feminism is about equality between sexes!


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> do we really want someone who thinks people need to be segregated by race and sex to have the power they have over gaming? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJr4ZRLVAAECF22.jpg


Haha oh wow. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with stupid things said by her and her speaker Johnathan Macintosh. Here's your champion, SJWs.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Feminism is about equality between sexes!


ohh yes much equality such inclusiveness :V https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJuzci-UcAAn_WM.jpg


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ohh yes much equality such inclusiveness :V https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJuzci-UcAAn_WM.jpg



http://40.media.tumblr.com/acd9fced8230cc7db760f451857a5088/tumblr_inline_nntdkmt0xA1rq2vci_500.png


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Feminism is about equality between sexes!



Both sexes equally far apart!


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Both sexes equally far apart!



In seperate classrooms!

No making personal choices! This is for your own good!


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I wanna intervene just to say that I don't deny that Anita's said some horrible shit but that's the thing, people can't be right all the time.

And if you wanna talk about people saying horrible shit, here's a GamerGater saying horrible shit but I guess this is where people claim he has nothing to do with GamerGate because shields are comfortable.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> In seperate classrooms!
> 
> No making personal choices! This is for your own good!



yes and dont talk to the other ethnicity's kids, they make you dumber! only trying to help!


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I wanna intervene just to say that I don't deny that Anita's said some horrible shit but that's the thing, people can't be right all the time.
> 
> And if you wanna talk about people saying horrible shit, here's a GamerGater saying horrible shit but I guess this is where people claim he has nothing to do with GamerGate because shields are comfortable.



Oh great, I accidentally clicked a Youtube link. Now this crap will be in my related videos for months.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Oh great, I accidentally clicked a Youtube link. Now this crap will be in my related videos for months.


awwe thats blows.


----------



## Eggdodger (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's obvious people like Anita poison what could be a cool movement

but I don't understand why people don't just adopt a different name for their activism, like one that actually represents equality

you know, one that's been around longer than the word feminism or the men's rights movement
*
Egalitarianism

*Gender egalitarianism is the thing feminism claims to be

More importantly, it's a thing Anita doesn't call herself and it's not a thing that has man, woman, maculine or feminine in the title


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I wanna intervene just to say that I don't deny that Anita's said some horrible shit but that's the thing, people can't be right all the time.
> 
> And if you wanna talk about people saying horrible shit, here's a GamerGater saying horrible shit but I guess this is where people claim he has nothing to do with GamerGate because shields are comfortable.


Yeah, this guy's ideas have nothing to do with GamerGate. I've actually never heard of him at all and I've been up to date with GG politics since last year. GG has an established basis and thus far it appears that our concerns are being addressed by the industry: https://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=GamerGate_Achievements


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Yeah, this guy's ideas have nothing to do with GamerGate. I've actually never heard of him at all and I've been up to date with GG politics since last year. GG has an established basis and thus far it appears that our concerns are being addressed by the industry: https://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=GamerGate_Achievements



Does #Gamergate have a strategy for how they're going to disband once they accomplish their goal (and an idea for a better name because JFC is "#Gamergate" awful)?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> It's obvious people like Anita poison what could be a cool movement
> 
> but I don't understand why people don't just adopt a different name for their activism, like one that actually represents equality
> 
> ...


yes exactly and most who do truly want equality have been going  by a different name.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> It's obvious people like Anita poison what could be a cool movement
> 
> but I don't understand why people don't just adopt a different name for their activism, like one that actually represents equality
> 
> ...



The issue with this is that egalitarianism isn't just another name for feminism. It's not a name for feminists "who also care about men".
Egalitarianism is for people who support rights for men and women from the get-go, who don't believe in the myths spread by feminists (like "1-in-4" and the wage gap), therefore, egalitarianism and feminism can't mix, and a feminist can't just hide under that label.



Astrium said:


> Does #Gamergate have a strategy for how they're  going to disband once they accomplish their goal (and an idea for a  better name because JFC is "#Gamergate" awful)?



Why would it disband? Because the name bothers you? Lmao


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Yeah, this guy's ideas have nothing to do with GamerGate. I've actually never heard of him at all and I've been up to date with GG politics since last year. GG has an established basis and thus far it appears that our concerns are being addressed by the industry: https://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=GamerGate_Achievements


YOU GUYS ARE SO FUCKING PREDICTABLE LOL

Don't actually CONDEMN shit people in your movement, dance around the issue and pretend they're not in the movement and that you've never heard of them. Good strategy, bro.


----------



## Eggdodger (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The issue with this is that egalitarianism isn't just another name for feminism. It's not a name for feminists "who also care about men".
> Egalitarianism is for people who support rights for men and women from the get-go, who don't believe in the myths spread by feminists (like "1-in-4" and the wage gap), therefore, egalitarianism and feminism can't mix, and a feminist can't just hide under that label.



Can the MRAs and egalitarianism mix?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Why would it disband? Because the name bothers you? Lmao



No, because if it's left to mill around aimlessly after it accomplishes whatever the hell its main goal is, then someone will hijack it and turn it into something else (and the name is incredibly dumb, there is no Gamergate Hotel).


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> Can the MRAs and egalitarianism mix?



Nope
MRA is very up-front that they're a movement for men's rights. Can't be a MRA-egalitarian mix



Astrium said:


> No, because if it's left to mill around aimlessly  after it accomplishes whatever the hell its main goal is, then someone  will hijack it and turn it into something else


It can't be kept around just to look out for corruption in game journalism?You think that shit will just stop?


----------



## Eggdodger (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

(Also Clayton I was referring to the feminists that say "it's for equality!", because if that were true they would really be egalitarians. Assume I already know stuff about these movements. I never post in these sorts of threads because the stupid hurts my brain)


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> do we really want someone who thinks people need to be segregated by race and sex to have the power they have over gaming? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJr4ZRLVAAECF22.jpg



Anita's comment about sex-segregated classrooms is accurate. [no idea about race]

Some studies really do reveal that students benefit from single-sex education. 
http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/other/single-sex/single-sex.pdf
http://heri.ucla.edu/pr-display.php?prQry=41

Not all studied agree and, if there is a consensus about this among educators, I don't know what it is.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If GG was about ethics in game journalism then why are everyone getting their panties in a twist over Anita, Zoe and Brinna Wu?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> If GG was about ethics in game journalism then why are everyone getting their panties in a twist over Anita, Zoe and Brinna Wu?



Because they are media darlings?

It's obvious.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Because they are media darlings?
> 
> It's obvious.


I dunno why that's some kind of corruption or ethical crisis.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno why that's some kind of corruption or ethical crisis.



nepotism


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> If GG was about ethics in game journalism then why are everyone getting their panties in a twist over Anita, Zoe and Brinna Wu?



We know why ;3


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> nepotism


Media isn't as unbiased as some want to believe. That'd be like neo-nazis crying nepotism because no one will give their viewpoints and their movement equal opportunity to everyone else on the news.

Not everyone deserves to be heard.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno why that's some kind of corruption or ethical crisis.



I think the main criticism is that the media reception has cast people who play video-games as a villainous bunch of young men with prejudicial mindsets and psychiatric disorders, who the brave-likes of people like Anita or Melody have risked mortal danger in order to expose. 

A yarn which isn't true, and portrays quibbles about hem-lines of dresses on fictional characters as if they are just as significant as the actions of Rosa Parks.



Kellie Gator said:


> Media isn't as unbiased as some want to  believe. That'd be like neo-nazis crying nepotism because no one will  give their viewpoints and their movement equal opportunity to everyone  else on the news.
> 
> Not everyone deserves to be heard.



Being unbiased doesn't mean giving _every _special interest group equal air-time on the news. 

It means thoroughly researching stories to check facts before they are broadcast, and not placing political slants on stories to make them more interesting to viewers. 

If there is a meteor shower, it wouldn't be biased to talk to an astronomer, and not give equal time [or any time] to a group of UFO enthusiasts. 
It _would _be biased to say 'scientists disagree if the meteors are space-rocks burning up in the atmosphere, or the streaks of spacecraft from other worlds'.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> It means thoroughly researching stories to check facts before they are broadcast, and not placing political slants on stories to make them more interesting to viewers.
> 
> If there is a meteor shower, it wouldn't be biased to talk to an astronomer, and not give equal time [or any time] to a group of UFO enthusiasts.
> It _would _be biased to say 'scientists disagree if the meteors are space-rocks burning up in the atmosphere, or the streaks of spacecraft from other worlds'.


^Implying that not a single media outlet out of the dozens, hundreds or maybe even thousands of media outlets that have covered this matter did any research beforehand.

Possible, but unlikely.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Eggdodger said:


> (Also Clayton I was referring to the feminists that say "it's for equality!", because if that were true they would really be egalitarians. Assume I already know stuff about these movements. I never post in these sorts of threads because the stupid hurts my brain)



The self-identified feminists who claim "it's for equality" aren't egalitarians, they're lazy feminists who want to hide behind the "it's for equality" shield.
The very definition of feminism claims that women are unequal to men and we need to boost them up so that they're equal. That's what feminists mean when they say "it's for equality", they're not referring to helping men's issues whatsoever.
That's why I like the Men's Rights Movement, at least they're fucking honest, lol.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I still don't get this whole idea of "fixing group A's problems means group B's problems aren't important".


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Why do I enjoy playing female characters more than male? Asuka Kazuma, Li-Li, Crystal Maiden, Vengeful Spirit. This doesn't make sense.. I always think female heroes are so kickass


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> ^Implying that not a single media outlet out of the dozens, hundreds or maybe even thousands of media outlets that have covered this matter did any research beforehand.
> 
> Possible, but unlikely.



I didn't make _any _implication. 

I* directly* stated my view that the general way that people who play video games have been represented because of media darlings, like Anita, has been seditious and really quite unfair. 

I did not state that all news stories on this subject weren't researched at all; that would be retarded.


----------



## Saiko (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I still don't get this whole idea of "fixing group A's problems means group B's problems aren't important".


You're right; it doesn't mean that. However, there is a population which does claim both parts of that; and that is a problem.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I still don't get this whole idea of "fixing group A's problems means group B's problems aren't important".



Lol
Feminists fucking SAY it.

I've been TOLD it by feminist friend when I asked her why feminists weren't helping men's issues.

Fighting the mythical boogeyman Mr.Patriarchy is much more important
feminists like to pretend they're Man Whisperers./


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Lol
> Feminists fucking SAY it.
> 
> I've been TOLD it by feminist friend when I asked her why feminists weren't helping men's issues.
> ...



You do realize that statement goes both ways, right?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> You do realize that statement goes both ways, right?



Explain?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Explain?



My previous statement also applies to "fixing women's issues means men's issues aren't important" as well as "fixing men's issues means women's issues aren't important".


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> My previous statement also applies to "fixing women's issues means men's issues aren't important" as well as "fixing men's issues means women's issues aren't important".



The difference here is that the MRM doesn't claim to want to fix women's issues.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The difference here is that the MRM doesn't claim to want to fix women's issues.



And I respect that, although I feel that both movements are unnecessary since we already have egalitarianism. What annoys me is when I see an MRA dismissing feminism with a "men are the ones with _real_ problems" and vice versa.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> What annoys me is when I see an MRA dismissing feminism with a "men are the ones with _real_ problems" and vice versa.



I don't think they say "men are the ones with real problems" (as compared to women)
They say that feminists complain about shit that doesn't matter -- and they do.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I don't think they say "men are the ones with real problems" (as compared to women)
> They say that feminists complain about shit that doesn't matter -- and they do.



I'll concede that, although just about everyone does. I could probably find you half a dozen rants about pointless shit on the front page of /r/TheRedPill.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I'll concede that, although just about everyone does. I could probably find you half a dozen rants about pointless shit on the front page of /r/TheRedPill.



The Reddit MRM page is /r/mensrights
https://www.reddit.com/r/mensrights

http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/fi/if/2d/sim748.jpg




"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."
How is this a MRM page?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The Reddit MRM page is /r/mensrights
> https://www.reddit.com/r/mensrights
> http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/fi/if/2d/sim748.jpg
> 
> ...



Just about every user of /r/TheRedPill claims to be an MRA.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm suddenly having fond memories of my mom being a Jehovah's Witness and how she refused to believe it was even remotely possible that people in her movement might've said or done bad things like telling scared little kids they'll go to hell or attempting to cover up sexual abuse in the movement. She just couldn't imagine there were any bad eggs or people doing bad things in her movement at all.

Gee, I wonder why I'm suddenly reminded of her?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Just about every user of /r/TheRedPill claims to be an MRA.



_[citation needed]_


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> _[citation needed]_



You can look for yourself if you'd like.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> You can look for yourself if you'd like.



I've been looking for a long time. I've been hearing this for a long time. I've never found proof.
I've already linked you evidence that they're not associated with the MRM and you just put on your blinders.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Why do I enjoy playing female characters more than male? Asuka Kazuma, Li-Li, Crystal Maiden, Vengeful Spirit. This doesn't make sense.. I always think female heroes are so kickass



yeah i love  playing as cammy and sakura in street fighter. sakura is my main. btw sweet avatar mika! very handsome


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

MRAs seem reasonable. MGTOWs are kinda out there in the stratosphere.

As for game characters, I'm personally more comfortable with male characters but I have no problem controlling a female avatar in, say, the excellent atmospheric game Aliens: Isolation. Of course people get upset if you don't meet certain gender or race quotas which is really confusing for me.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> MRAs seem reasonable. MGTOWs are kinda out there in the stratosphere.
> 
> As for game characters, I'm personally more comfortable with male characters but I have no problem controlling a female avatar in, say, the excellent atmospheric game Aliens: Isolation. Of course people get upset if you don't meet certain gender or race quotas which is really confusing for me.


yeah really its up to the designers who they have in a game. but then you get the crazy SJW's https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJpQ9E7UwAAcpRx.jpg


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> MRAs seem reasonable. MGTOWs are kinda out there in the stratosphere.



MGTOWs are the ones I was thinking of. Fuckin' nutballs.

Also, I actually tend to pick female characters in non-blank slate games. They usually have faster and more stylized combat styles. Interestingly enough, I've finished one playthrough of _Dead Island _and am partway through another and so far I've only used the female characters. (Mostly because blades > guns > blunt > thrown).


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Thank god we've got feminists making important changes

women before men
yup
https://41.media.tumblr.com/c689e0033268a4bcd1096ae9cb8e660c/tumblr_nrcgvqcprj1qa0ugxo2_1280.jpg

we really need people like this dictating how games operate


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Thank god we've got feminists making important changes
> 
> women before men
> yup
> ...



wtf really? if its that important they should be side by side. this new icon is the same as the last one.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Shio like 
Aahah 
I can't even take you seriously anymore with that hashtag in your sig.


----------



## DevilishlyHandsome49 (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

*sees Shio's sig*

http://media.giphy.com/media/IwmztXQO7BUzu/giphy.gif


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> wtf really? if its that important they should be side by side. this new icon is the same as the last one.



http://www.nylon.com/articles/facebook-friend-request-icon


----------



## shteev (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

i ship shio and volk 2k15


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



shteev said:


> i ship shio and volk 2k15



will you please leave


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Shio like
> Aahah
> I can't even take you seriously anymore with that hashtag in your sig.


lol whateve's


also sargon live now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1UMTTODy-s


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol whateve's




If that's your best response to add legitamacy to what it all is then, well. 

I feel like GamerGate is essentially the inverse of SJWs. A bit of a real cause thrown in, mixed with a bit or /r/theredpill, and teenage gamer immaturity and VOILA. GamerGate. An annoying and disjointed cause that makes nothing but misogynistic accusations towards female gamers and game developers. All based on an imaginary conspiracy.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> If that's your best response to add legitamacy to what it all is then, well.
> 
> I feel like GamerGate is essentially the inverse of SJWs. A bit of a real cause thrown in, mixed with a bit or /r/theredpill, and teenage gamer immaturity and VOILA. GamerGate. An annoying and disjointed cause that makes nothing but misogynistic accusations towards female gamers and game developers. All based on an imaginary conspiracy.



lol no i just know what you think GG is and you dont have an open ear. i and others have explained what it is, your opinion hasn't changed  so im not taking the bait or wasting my time.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol no i just know what you think GG is and you dont have an open ear. i and others have explained what it is, your opinion hasn't changed  so im not taking the bait or wasting my time.




I honestly haven't been following this thread. I'm not going to trawl through thirty pages on mobile.  I'll cut the crap and ask succinctly. I'll keep an open mond and throw out my bias for the sake of understanding. 


What is Gamergate? From your perspective.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Red
You have absolutely no idea what Gamergate is so just don't even start.

Gamergate is a bunch of people, gamer and non, calling out corruption in the gaming journalism. Members of gamergate will debate people like Anita as I and others have, as well as their supporters.


"An annoying and disjointed cause that makes nothing but misogynistic  accusations towards female gamers and game developers. All based on an  imaginary conspiracy."

So feminists and the patriarchy?

God, I'm not even gonna start w/ you right now Red. This is just too much stress


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Look I'm gonna try and be partial. I'm not even gonna say my final thoughts on it. just questions. 

What corruption exactly? Besides the subjugation of gamer staffs to push out unfinished games for cash and all.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I honestly haven't been following this thread. I'm not going to trawl through thirty pages kn mobile.  I'll cut the crap and ask succinctly. I'll keep an open mond and throw out my bias for the sake of understanding.
> 
> 
> What is Gamergate? From your perspective.


well ok then.  ok so for starters there are plenty of trolls, and crazy people using the GG hashtag to harass people. this is why some are able to dismiss gamergate as something it is not.
gamergate is a collective of like minded people who want  ethics in games journalism. they include many people including many game journalists fed up with people getting cash incentives to  fluff reviews. as well as other ways some people get their games to be held at a higher regard than it deserves.  gamergate is seeking the truth from these journalists.
even if your not among those who believe zoe quin slept with the head of kotaku to get her "game" the over the top embellished reviews it received. if you see this game and try and line it up to other  games it doesn't fit. its the equivalent  of  a dog shitting in a chilli pot and it still winning the contest. your going to wonder how it did.  yes she is why the collective of people came together to form the ever growing  ethics in journalism movement, but not why it continues. you see the journalists in many of the main game journalism sites meet regularly as a collective, and it came as a surprise when  not only did they all start insulting gamers as a whole on top of giving zoe and her terrible not-game  insane reviews. but also seemingly all had the exact same things to say in all of their articles. someone is working together to corrupt the news. and the real GG ( not the trolls the SJW's use to dismiss GG as a whole) is here to reinforce ethics in journalism, and hold them accountable. GG has donated lots of money to charity as well as helping with many worthy causes. this is what gamer gate is.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Okay. So it's just about shitty games getting great reviews. Like how CODMW always gets 10/10 even though it's all rehash. Am I on the right track?


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Look I'm gonna try and be partial. I'm not even gonna say my final thoughts on it. just questions.



I tried that, didn't work.



ShioBear said:


> well ok then.  ok so for starters there are plenty of trolls, and crazy people using the GG hashtag to harass people. this is why some are able to dismiss gamergate as something it is not.
> gamergate is a collective of like minded people who want  ethics in games journalism. they include many people including many game journalists fed up with people getting cash incentives to  fluff reviews. as well as other ways some people get their games to be held at a higher regard than it deserves.  gamergate is seeking the truth from these journalists.
> even if your not among those who believe zoe quin slept with the head of kotaku to get her "game" the over the top embellished reviews it received. if you see this game and try and line it up to other  games it doesn't fit. its the equivalent  of  a dog shitting in a chilli pot and it still winning the contest. your going to wonder how it did.  yes she is why the collective of people came together to form the ever growing  ethics in journalism movement, but not why it continues. you see the journalists in many of the main game journalism sites meet regularly as a collective, and it came as a surprise when  not only did they all start insulting gamers as a whole on top of giving zoe and her terrible not-game  insane reviews. but also seemingly all had the exact same things to say in all of their articles. someone is working together to corrupt the news. and the real GG ( not the trolls the SJW's use to dismiss GG as a whole) is here to reinforce ethics in journalism, and hold them accountable. GG has donated lots of money to charity as well as helping with many worthy causes. this is what gamer gate is.



I'm not even going to try to chop this wall-o'-text down to the relevant part, so I'll just ask it: why do you despise _Depression Quest_â€‹ so much?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Okay. So it's just about shitty games getting great reviews. Like how CODMW always gets 10/10 even though it's all rehash. Am I on the right track?



thats part of it yes. your on the right track


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> What corruption exactly?



-You can hop on a dick to get your game a good review
- Feminists and SJW are dictating what gets put into games, what developers create, what gets put into the reviews of these games
- feminists and SJW are harassing game developers if they go through with creating a game they dont like


examples:
depression quest
witcher 3
that stupid tentacle game
fallout
doom
hatred


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> -You can hop on a dick to get your game a good review
> - Feminists and SJW are dictating what gets put into games, what developers create, what gets put into the reviews of these games
> - feminists and SJW are harassing game developers if they go through with creating a game they dont like
> 
> ...



and thats the other part of it


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://whensmahvelgoddamit.tumblr.c...s-like-sarcheesian-doesnt-play-video-games-or

People like this are dictating how games are made
If you give a favourable review, be prepared to have a swarm of feminists calling you sexist
Enjoy your job, buddy!


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> -You can hop on a dick to get your game a good review
> - Feminists and SJW are dictating what gets put into games, what developers create, what gets put into the reviews of these games
> - feminists and SJW are harassing game developers if they go through with creating a game they dont like
> 
> ...



Depression Quest was never meant to be a traditional game, I thought. But that's besides the point. I haven't played it. Probably never will. 


Why is it "slept with journalists"? Why not "paid for good reviews" as is purported what many other AAA game makers do? Admittedly...isn't there a tiny bit of gender bias there? 

Also. To an extent, everyone has a bias. Of course, a radical feminist writer is going to nitpick bullshit to criticize a game based on X, Y, Z. Just as Nintendo Magazine will give Nintendo games better reviews while being overly critical towarda Sony creations and such. 

What have they "dictated" thus far? Are they actually controlling things or are they simply making demands?  Other games have been harrased over the years for not including X character or whatever. Or making a stupid design choice. Particularly games in a series.

Basically, haters gonna hate, feminists gonna fem, and fanboys are gonna froth. How has this suddenly become a big deal when someone says what is generally a biased and uninformed opinion?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Depression Quest was never meant to be a traditional game, I thought. But that's besides the point. I haven't played it. Probably never will.
> 
> 
> Why is it "slept with journalists"? Why not "paid for good reviews" as is purported what many other AAA game makers do? Admittedly...isn't there a tiny bit of gender bias there?
> ...



"Pay for good reviews" is also corruption.

There are games linked in this thread that they've threatened, forced, and cancelled
I'm not going back to find them.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Okay fair point. 
I added a bit near the end. But is the feminist hammer swing on gaming _really_ all that strong, in your belief? Or is it political correctness in general, feminism being the foremost cause?


Thank you for discussing this btw. I'm still neither for not against GG but I understand a little of the legitimacy behind it.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

here you go red

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

read away.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> here you go red
> https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/
> read away.



I'd rather hear your answer. Of course, if I go to X site I can find Y evidence and speculation. If you don't want to talk about it anymore that's cool though. I have a pretty decent understanding now.



-edit-
I watched the GG in 60 seconds. Enlightening. 

Now. Final question. Is it possible that the Gamergate cause has been used to unfairly attack certain people? Just as feminism is oft used to attack men, etc.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Im just laying sown and i dont want to type out long explanation
whqt i linked to you is the "headquaters" of gamergate


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Yeah I looked up a few things. 

Is it still possible that the cause is, at times, misguided? Just like any cause, feminism, racial equity, etc etc. While being based in a true desire for ethics, at times is taken by headstrong people looking merely to hate.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Are you referring to trolls on Twitter calling Anita a cunt or something?
lmao


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Are you referring to trolls on Twitter calling Anita a cunt or something?
> lmao



If that's what you feel answer what you feel answers the question. But I mean I'm trying not to narrow it down too much. Im keeping my questions open ended.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I dont understand what trolls calling Anita a cunt over twitter (assuming they arent her under different accounts, shes done that before) have to do with KotakuInAction/Gamergate


----------



## Astrium (Jul 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> -You can hop on a dick to get your game a good review



_[citation needed]_


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> _[citation needed]_



Zoe Quinn


----------



## Astrium (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Zoe Quinn



I still haven't found anything giving concrete confirmation that did or didn't happen. Until I do, I'm leaning towards not because that's an insane thing to do.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I still haven't found anything giving concrete confirmation that did or didn't happen. Until I do, I'm leaning towards not because that's an insane thing to do.



She's insane
I've seen multiple sources from multiple people and you still don't want to believe
I'm done talking about this with you. Enjoy your blinders.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

...*cough* 

All that aside, thanks for discussing it. I have a better understanding of it. Carry on with whatever is going on here in general.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> She's insane
> I've seen multiple sources from multiple people and you still don't want to believe
> I'm done talking about this with you. Enjoy your blinders.



I'm actually about done posting in this thread in general. Not because I'm mad at anyone in it or anything like that, but just because it seems like we've talked this out about as much as possible.

Also, please note: I never said it didn't happen either. I haven't found a reputable source that can tell me anything either way (Zoe's ex-boyfriend and ex-friend don't count because they both would have good cause to slander or discredit her, not to say that they are).


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Gosh golly I guess posting photos of her and Zoe at a porn shoot and discussing what went on here is just not enough evidence
goossshhh
gamergate is shit!!!


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> -You can hop on a dick to get your game a good review
> - Feminists and SJW are dictating what gets put into games, what developers create, what gets put into the reviews of these games
> - feminists and SJW are harassing game developers if they go through with creating a game they dont like
> 
> ...


 Exactly why I hate these fuckers.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/timel...=0AluMP_VX-eehdFV1X2JxQXNzZ3gzaE45VG85WDl3R0E

Educate yourself, Astrium. You have the means available to you, or you can simply leave the blinders on. As for GamerGate, it has been the victim of false flag operations, or explained otherwise, people using the name to unsatisfactory ends. That is not to say there isn't a contingent within the movement who also took bad measures, but that the majority have nothing to do with their actions. A great analogy is Christianity is not responsible for Westboro Baptist Church or something such to that extent. The information you want can be found online. Additionally, she did have meetings with the individuals she was accused of sleeping with. But seriously enough about Zoe Quinn.

You're free to make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions, I suppose. If you're going to view me and my ilk as evil women bashers regardless then that's your business.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/timel...=0AluMP_VX-eehdFV1X2JxQXNzZ3gzaE45VG85WDl3R0E



That looks like a pretty good source to me. It's late and I need to get to bed, so I'll check the rest of my untead FAF threads tonight and then I'll have a look at that in the morning.



Zuriak said:


> Educate yourself, Astrium. You have the means available to you, or you can simply leave the blinders on. As for GamerGate, it has been the victim of false flag operations, or explained otherwise, people using the name to unsatisfactory ends. That is not to say there isn't a contingent within the movement who also took bad measures, but that the majority have nothing to do with their actions. A great analogy is Christianity is not responsible for Westboro Baptist Church or something such to that extent. The information you want can be found online. Additionally, she did have meetings with the individuals she was accused of sleeping with. But seriously enough about Zoe Quinn.



I dislike the term "false flag operation". Reminds me too much of the "Sandy Hook was all paid actors" nutjobs.



Zuriak said:


> You're free to make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions, I suppose. If you're going to view me and my ilk as evil women bashers regardless then that's your business.



Y'all need to reread some of my statements, I think. I've been trying to keep as neutral as possible and figure out exactly how much I agree with this whole #Gamergate thing. I'm not entirely agreeing or disagreeing with you, just trying to figure out what did and didn't happen. Y'all need to stop treating me like an enemy before you actually turn me into one.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So...was it the SJW that got Hatred banned for awhile?


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I apologize -- I don't necessarily means to accuse though I am tired of hearing that GamerGate is all about harassment and all that jazz. That would make me part of the supposedly guilty party, which would put me in a bad light as well as I am and have associated with that group.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> So...was it the SJW that got Hatred banned for awhile?


It got flak from all sides, but mainly I believe it was primarily the SJWs and/or people of the political left who protested it. It's an edgy game (mass shooting are a hot topic here in the States) with a stupid plot that pretty much single handedly changed Valve's refund policy. I'm not sure what all the fuss was about. *shrug*


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

SJW were pissed about Hatred because the achievement for killing women was Misogynist


They didn't comment on the achievement for killing men though.. that one was "Feminist"


----------



## Sylox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ughh the game wasn't even that bad violence wise tbh. Nothing we haven't seen before with shit like GTA and Postal.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> SJW were pissed about Hatred because the achievement for killing women was Misogynist
> 
> 
> They didn't comment on the achievement for killing men though.. that one was "Feminist"


http://i.imgur.com/EH3wSqZ.jpg

The toppest of keks.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't know about Zoe, it's all complicated to me but Anita is just a sexist using feminism to justify her actions.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> I don't know about Zoe, it's all complicated to me but Anita is just a sexist using feminism to justify her actions.



Jonathan MacIntosh is a sexist using a woman to push his sexism because he knows that women are more likely to listen to a woman than they are a man


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> SJW were pissed about Hatred because the achievement for killing women was Misogynist
> 
> 
> They didn't comment on the achievement for killing men though.. that one was "Feminist"


 I"ll smash all the fucking bitches in a video game if I want.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I beat up old ladies in GTA V all of the time


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Jonathan MacIntosh is a sexist using a woman to push his sexism because he knows that women are more likely to listen to a woman than they are a man



I think men are less likely to be sexists, men are generally happy with their gender roles/status.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

One women that feminists hate is Christina H. Sommers, aka "Based Mom". The reason for this is that she's a feminist.. BUT.... she calls feminists out on their shit all the time. 
She called feminists out on their ignorant pushing of "viddygame cause violence against wimmin" logic and they got mad.
She also called out anti-gamergate people. 

Many people, feminist, MRA, and egalitarian like BasedMom. I like her, too.

[yt]9MxqSwzFy5w[/yt]
[yt]5RVlCvBd21w[/yt]

Edit:
found another
[yt]YMw39meKmzY[/yt]


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



shteev said:


> i ship shio and volk 2k15



They even use the same oddly specific lingo...

 Come with me, Watson.  :V


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

yall need to stop doing anythihg and everything entirely
too much
why do the girl dogs in this anime got human faces
this is sexism in anime
we need to attack this POST HASTE


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> MRAs seem reasonable.


lol

Also, this is what this thread is now. <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

this ones a beauty
http://surge991.tumblr.com/post/123874458470/my-fucking-sides

"do they really ahve any effect on journalism?"

Using a strawpoll as fact
hahahahhahaha


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Miyazaki is one of my favorite feminists. <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

People who have spoken out against anti-GG have received interesting packages in the mail
https://twitter.com/caligula/status/532089393390317568
https://twitter.com/nero/status/513666683916255232
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/853/851/ecf.png

We must purteckt da wommin at all co$t
Just another reason why I'm pro-GG

Oops, here's more
https://wiki.gamergate.me/index.php?title=Harassment#Victims

Anyonestill wonder why gamergate is a thing?


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> lol
> 
> Also, this is what this thread is now. <3


Holy shit I can't believe you believe this. I just don't even know where to begin.

I'm going to go ahead and write you off as a troll now. Have a great night.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Holy shit I can't believe you believe this. I just don't even know where to begin.
> 
> I'm going to go ahead and write you off as a troll now. Have a great night.


I'm okay with this. :3c



Butters Shikkon said:


> Miyazaki is one of my favorite feminists. <3


Didn't know dude was a feminist. Care to tell me more?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Holy shit I can't believe you believe this. I just don't even know where to begin.
> 
> I'm going to go ahead and write you off as a troll now. Have a great night.



You seem new here, you should see my block list lol
Hanging out on these forums, it just grows and grows. 
I'm at 13

People just dont want to debate seriously anymore and my patience has wore thin. thankfully there are qual bros on here that still debate good


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> You seem new here, you should see my block list lol
> Hanging out on these forums, it just grows and grows.
> I'm at 13
> 
> People just dont want to debate seriously anymore and my patience has wore thin. thankfully there are qual bros on here that still debate good


Yeah, I hear you on that. I don't believe in blocking folks unless they're just flat out being douche nozzles. This person? Meh.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm okay with this. :3c
> 
> 
> Didn't know dude was a feminist. Care to tell me more?



No? He's very big on making strong female characters in his films. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind was one of his first works that demonstrates this beautifully. Another film, Porco Rosso, basically has a plot point about how females can build planes just as great as men in a Rosie the Riveter sorta way. And for those of you that love damsel in distress tropes, he turned that on its head in Kiki's Delivery service. 

Even in that Sherlock Hound link I showed had a badass female in it. She's Sherlock's housekeeper/landlady who is revealed to be an ace driver and saves a dude from an explosion. 

He criticizes modern anime for being too focused on creepy otaku and loli-lovers, showing that not all Japanese straight guys are down with the pedo-culture. He's just...*swoons*


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It seems that both sides have legit concerns, but everyone is gonna get caught up in a pissing match anyways because reasons.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> It seems that both sides have legit concerns, but everyone is gonna get caught up in a pissing match anyways because reasons.



Ive not heard any legit concerns from aGGros.

Breanna Wu claims she was chased out of her house
4Chan proves it wrong with her very own videos

Milo receives a syringe full of liquid and a dead mouse in his mail

Mmmm
hmmm...


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> It seems that both sides have legit concerns, but everyone is gonna get caught up in a pissing match anyways because reasons.



I see you've not only learned a new rule of the internet, but life as well. 

Achievement unlocked: People are goddamn idiots.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If people claiming to be GG folk send rape threats and they DOX and harass, they're just trolls that are using the cause. 


But if people claiming to be feminists send threats and awful packages, they are scum and a representive of the entire cause, instead of new-wave radicals. 


That's a bit of a double standard.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The "people who send rape and death threats" dont say theyre from gg
theyre also fake lol
fbi investigated the claims
thr people sending dead mice and syringes in mail didnt say they were frninists but the anti gg (aggros) were the ones who publicly doxxed ggers



No such thing as radical feminist either red
you know this.
people bring up anita sarkeesian and excuse her as "one of those radicals"
Nobidy has explained to me how she is radical


Sorry for typos layin in bed on phone


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Whatever you say Volk. 
Carry on.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Whatever you say Volk.
> Carry on.



U r not my friend n e more
were mortal enemies now
Expect dead mouse in mailbox for disagree with  me


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> U r not my friend n e more
> were mortal enemies now
> Expect dead mouse in mailbox for disagree with  me




Does this mean we get to have a final showdown


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> No such thing as radical feminist either red
> you know this.



Yep, and no radical MRA's either.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Does this mean we get to have a final showdown


Yes it does ill kill a few small animals to make a point
when you find "fight me" written on your front lawn with the bodies of dead animals ive killed, meet me in the park



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Yep, and no radical MRA's either.


Im absolutely sure there are but youre missing my point
radical feminist = majority now
people avoid saying this phrase and instead like to choose "third wave feminism" to avoid people immediately running away
radical mra are definitely the minority and youre actually the first person ive ever seen use that phrase


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

In my mind: 

Radical feminist-  wants men to pay and suffer, not be equal; wants every creative entity to posses every cross sextion od every minority ever, whether or not it makes sense; believe men cannot be victimized by sexism in any sense because blah blah power structures; exclude transwomen; sees physical requirments for things such as firefighting and rescue as sexist; believes all men are rapists

Radical MRA- red piller; believes women should know their place/be subservient; believe women are less intelligent or capable of making decisions; do not believe women have been subject to sexism; justifies complete exclusion of women no matter the scenario; sees feminism as propoganda with no cause




Truth be told I have not met either of these folk so I feel like both of these are a minority entity.



Volkodav said:


> Yes it does ill kill a few small animals to make a point
> when you find "fight me" written on your front lawn with the bodies of dead animals ive killed, meet me in the park



That's metal.  
I'll cum come dressed in nothing but a Texas flag.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Redpillers are not mra though
redpill is about hooking up and dating
Mra is anti circumcison, pro mens custody, etc


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Redpillers are not mra though
> redpill is about hooking up and dating
> Mra is anti circumcison, pro mens custody, etc



You believe that, but: http://puerarchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/TheFuturist_TheMisandryBubble.pdf

From the sidebar of /r/redpill. 
They literally talk radical MRA rhetoric. Not just date/fuck advice. 
They are the representation of the radical MRA that believe woman oppression is a myth and that they are, at heart, subservient to the male.

This is literaly radical MRA rhetoric.
No, they are not mra. 
But they are radical mras.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Does this mean we get to have a final showdown



No, a Xiaolin Showdown!! (I'm nostalgic today)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> No? He's very big on making strong female characters in his films. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind was one of his first works that demonstrates this beautifully. Another film, Porco Rosso, basically has a plot point about how females can build planes just as great as men in a Rosie the Riveter sorta way. And for those of you that love damsel in distress tropes, he turned that on its head in Kiki's Delivery service.
> 
> Even in that Sherlock Hound link I showed had a badass female in it. She's Sherlock's housekeeper/landlady who is revealed to be an ace driver and saves a dude from an explosion.
> 
> He criticizes modern anime for being too focused on creepy otaku and loli-lovers, showing that not all Japanese straight guys are down with the pedo-culture. He's just...*swoons*


Huh... I didn't know that but that's because I hate anime, aside from like, Fist of the North Star and super robot animes...

I might give more of his flicks a proper watch someday.



Volkodav said:


> The "people who send rape and death threats" dont say theyre from gg


Ahem. Yes they do. Not all of them but a healthy amount do.

That's the only post by Volk I'll respond to in this thread.

This thread feels like a Jehovah's Witnesses circle jerk. So many childhood memories for me. <3


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Huh... I didn't know that but that's because I hate anime, aside from like, Fist of the North Star and super robot animes...
> 
> I might give more of his flicks a proper watch someday.



His works are made by Japanese artists and they are animated, but it would not be correct to call it anime. Atleast as the mainstream understands it. His works are more akin to Disney films (although even that kinda isn't giving them enough credit) than the tropey mess we see today.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Kellie don't waltz in just to start shit and walk off. I'm actually trying to have a goddamned discussion.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Kellie don't waltz in just to start shit and walk off. I'm actually trying to have a goddamned discussion.


Well, if you'd like, I just don't see what you'll gain from it, these people clearly don't want to change their minds or open up to the idea that they're wrong. I already tried doing what you're currently doing.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, if you'd like, I just don't see what you'll gain from it, these people clearly don't want to change their minds or open up to the idea that they're wrong.



It doesn't matter in the slightest what you think I'll gain. I'm trying to enlightment myself on the goddamned subject at hand from all angles. So cut the snide comments and shit stirring if you're not going to participate. Either discuss or don't.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Red, your link is making me giggle far too much on a cloudy English day. 

Did you see the "She rode a carousal of men with reckless abandon" part? I wanna ride a carousal of men. :V


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> It doesn't matter in the slightest what you think I'll gain. I'm trying to enlightment myself on the goddamned subject at hand from all angles. So cut the snide comments and shit stirring if you're not going to participate. Either discuss or don't.


Well, if you wanna learn more about GG and both sides of the discussion I can recommend this YouTube playlist. It's not biased as far as I can tell, might be more helpful than asking others here. But do as you wish.

EDIT:
Just noticed the playlist videos are really long, so... I won't blame anyone for not watching. My point was simply that David Pakman's trying to give GG a chance to explain themselves.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Red, your link is making me giggle far too much on a cloudy English day.
> 
> Did you see the "She rode a carousal of men with reckless abandon" part? I wanna ride a carousal of men. :V




It gave me a headache. The voice in my head as I was reading it....like a cross between an evangelistic preacher and an empassioned conspiracist.



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, if you wanna learn more about GG and both sides of the discussion I can recommend this YouTube playlist. It's not biased as far as I can tell, might be more helpful than asking others here. But do as you wish.



I'll have to watch later. On mobile. I already watched a few videos already.


-edit-
To be honest, what's there to explain? Gamergate has some legitimate concerns, and it seema that the majority consensus of its current members believe that there's a dirty game being played in gamer journalism as far as game reviews are concerned, and condemn the vitrolic actions of people using the GG cause. They are split on whether or not it's actually about feminism/sjws, but the core of it seems to have legitimate concerns for the gaming industry and has nothing to do with feminism.

I think that really its a broader reflection of journalism in general. Such as the initially popr Tesla coverage by Top Gear and news stations hounding over a car catching ln fire when there were GMCs blowing up and cooking their passengers alive. At the bottom of it all it's about corporate influence on media, albeit specifically about the gaming industry.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Red Pillers aren't the same as MRAs. There is some overlap for societal and social concern, but the philosophies are different -- I think they identify with MGTOW more.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Red Pillers aren't the same as MRAs. There is some overlap for societal and social concern, but the philosophies are different -- I think they identify with MGTOW more.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/



No, they're not, and I've said that repeatedly. However, they are a maladjusted form of radical mras just as femnazi #killtheman types are radical feminism. I think you recognize what I'm getting at. At their core, they're not realy about MRA. They're about gain and hate based on a certain prejudice against the opposite cause.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Honestly, I always wondered why other gamers keep buying magazines with corrupt articles or reviews in them? If you don't approve of that sorta thing why give those people your money? And if it's online, why give them pageviews? 

Seems that would cripple corrupt journalist faster than call outs or trying to reveal sexual histories of hoes. :V


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Honestly, I always wondered why other gamers keep buying magazines with corrupt articles or reviews in them? If you don't approve of that sorta thing why give those people your money? And if it's online, why give them pageviews? Seems that would cripple corrupt journalist faster than call outs or trying to reveal sexual histories of hoes. :V




It's not just a matter of buying magazines. It's the fact that a review aggregate of videogames has a significant impact on the success of that game. Just as extremely bad press can send a company down in flames, whether it deserves it or not.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> -edit-
> To be honest, what's there to explain? Gamergate has some legitimate concerns, and it seema that the majority consensus of its current members believe that there's a dirty game being played in gamer journalism as far as game reviews are concerned, and condemn the vitrolic actions of people using the GG cause. They are split on whether or not it's actually about feminism/sjws, but the core of it seems to have legitimate concerns for the gaming industry and has nothing to do with feminism.


That's cutely naive. Some GGers probably have legitimate concerns, just like some MRAs or conservatives have legitimate concerns. But pretty much every GG outlet ever is more concerned about women and feminism, launching smear campaigns and slandering women by cooking up cute little conspiracy theories. And I haven't seen a single GGer condemn harassment, they simply deny it.

Sargon of Akkad doesn't talk about game journalism, he talks about feminism.

thunderf00t doesn't talk about game journalism, he talks about Anita Sarkeesian.

JordanOwen42 doesn't talk about game journalism, he talks about Anita Sarkeesian.

Davis Aurini doesn't talk about game journalism, he talks about Anita Sarkeesian and women in general.

Kotaku in Action never mentions ethics in journalism, corruption OR shady game reviews on their fucking front page, they talk about women, feminists, SJWs and how bullied they feel for being called out on their shitty behavior.

There are many, many other names out there that I can't even keep track on. I know you mean well Red, just trying to offer some information.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> It's not just a matter of buying magazines. It's the fact that a review aggregate of videogames has a significant impact on the success of that game. Just as extremely bad press can send a company down in flames, whether it deserves it or not.



I would love to understand why. Because games are an entertainment item purchased by adults usually. Adults can inform themselves on the value of their product. (For instance, a lot of people thought Destiny was gonna be good. But I saw Angry Joe's Review on it and decided it looked awful. That's less money for destiny. Why is it so hard to not trust mainstream media? Are people literally this stupid?)


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Either way, there's legitmate concerns. Instead of condemning the pedantic bullshit(causing them to go on with more pedantic bullshit), it's better to promote the real cause at the core.



Butters Shikkon said:


> I would love to understand why. Because games are an entertainment item purchased by adults usually. Adults can inform themselves on the value of their product. (For instance, a lot of people thought Destiny was gonna be good. But I saw Angry Joe's Review on it and decided it looked awful. That's less money for destiny. Why is it so hard to not trust mainstream media? Are people literally this stupid?)



That's a bit telling, isn't it? You have to skip all the mainstream media news and go to youtube to find a decent and honest game review.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Either way, there's legitmate concerns. Instead of condemning the pedantic bullshit(causing them to go on with more pedantic bullshit), it's better to promote the real cause at the core.


Except their core isn't about ethics, it's about how they were upset a woman got laid with a game review because she's a woman who fucked someone who aren't them.

And they hate games they don't like getting positive game reviews. And they whine when being called out on harassment.

Gamergate is a war on opinions.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> That's a bit telling, isn't it? You have to skip all the mainstream media news and go to youtube to find a decent and honest game review.



Oh, in this day and age, you're far better off trusting the common man than a company or news media. Same with Adverts. I'm sure you know better than to buy a high priced name brand item over a store brand that is essentially the same thing. 

Advertising's job is to deceive you. Journalists have become advertisers. 

The gamers are adults, they are expected to wise up with how their world works. Kinda like how we know not to trust Fox News media. It's just common sense. Youtube and the internet are now the bastions for honest news/reviews. But don't expect that to last long when big business realizes that's where everyone's attention is going.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

@Red:That'd be a fair assessment, I'll give that to you. Though they have nothing of Socjus: that's something that's absolutely scary and destructive when it goes to work. I can't honesty say I've seen MRAs, Red pillers or MGTOWs causing trouble in academia as well as society in general though legislations and what not.

@Butters: The truth about gamers is the vast majority of them (excluding mobile gamers) just want to session game with COD, Madden or some variant thereof. It's already known that big companies buy reviewers with gifts in order to get positive reviews. If you'd go a quick Google search, would would find an impossibly large number of people discussing this and most are, of course, against it. For this reason we have user review systems such as Metacritic and Steam's own rating system. What the real problem is not revealing relationships between entities or individuals in order to further a product or service. We've already been over this and many folks have been caught doing this, not just Zoe Quinn. Though the corruption comes from the mass and coordinated shut down and suppression of these happenings, which sparked the movement known as GamerGate.

This type of deal happens in the gun industry as well with Century Arms: review them well and they'll give you freebies here and there. The same with doctors and pharmaceuticals. There is also backlash against this as well, and you can find it on the web.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> This type of deal happens in the gun industry as well with Century Arms: review them well and they'll give you freebies here and there. The same with doctors and pharmaceuticals. There is also backlash against this as well, and you can find it on the web.



Only guns and pharmaceuticals are rather important or have a lasting effect on societies. Games are entertainment items. So Gamergate comes off as the stuff of a manchild temper tantrum. And I still stand by that "Don't like it, don't buy it" thing. Because it makes no sense for people to pay attention to reviewers they consider untrustworthy.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Only guns and pharmaceuticals are rather important or have a lasting effect on societies. Games are entertainment items. So Gamergate comes off as the stuff of a manchild temper tantrum. And I still stand by that "Don't like it, don't buy it" thing. Because it makes no sense for people to pay attention to reviewers they consider untrustworthy.


http://i.imgur.com/RELhv9T.gifv

>Implying media doesn't have an effect of society
>Implying games are only for entertainment
>Implying reviews aren't watched for anything other than a score
>Implying being against suppression and coverups in games media is childish/immature

Haha oh wow, you're really going off the deep end. I don't like James Yeager or NutNFancy but I still watch them for information for a product. The "Don't like it, don't buy it" philosophy you preach is somewhat strange because I'm trying to figure out how ti fits into this whole deal, because typically Anita doesn't like X. So she shouldn't buy X. So are you saying she shouldn't talk about it and just not buy X? Help me out here.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> because typically Anita doesn't like X. So she shouldn't buy X. So are you saying she shouldn't talk about it and just not buy X? Help me out here.



We are allowing for youtubers to enter this equation because they are not paid off by an outside party. Supposedly anyway. ;3c And I'm glad to see you think games are not just for entertainment. I hope you will support diversity in games and a better treatment of women which is why people are so interested in Anita's vids in the first place. 

And really, that's the crux of this argument. Because it's no lie that people who support gamergate tend to dislike diversity in games. It's been that way for 99 percent of the folks I've talked to about it. I've talked to a lot. A lot of the people who were attacked by gamergate supporters were targeted because of diversity reasons and not "corruption".  (Which had been such an issue for so long that is was something of a joke and the slutshaming from that developer's ex that sparked the movement really kinda proves it was never about ethics. Just some big ole' drama that would make a furry jizz in pride.)


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Big, curvy butts are cool and good.


----------



## Lomberdia (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I approve of big, curvy butts. Add more women with big curvy butts in 3rd person camera view please. I like games that lets you customize your character *cough*secondlife*cough* I can give myself some sexy fantasy eyecandy. Be the sexiest chick with a nice ass, shape, and decent tits.

Walking around naked and fucking all the other women for hawt lesbo sex fun time. Yes, we need more naked women characters in games. Also you'll in secondlife, you'll find a fe chicks with dicks too. And guys with tits. Secondlife is wild lol


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> We are allowing for youtubers to enter this equation because they are not paid off by an outside party. Supposedly anyway. ;3c And I'm glad to see you think games are not just for entertainment. I hope you will support diversity in games and a better treatment of women which is why people are so interested in Anita's vids in the first place.
> 
> And really, that's the crux of this argument. Because it's no lie that people who support gamergate tend to dislike diversity in games. It's been that way for 99 percent of the folks I've talked to about it. I've talked to a lot. A lot of the people who were attacked by gamergate supporters were targeted because of diversity reasons and not "corruption".  (Which had been such an issue for so long that is was something of a joke and the slutshaming from that developer's ex that sparked the movement really kinda proves it was never about ethics. Just some big ole' drama that would make a furry jizz in pride.)


http://i.imgur.com/N6rTFdg.gifv

So much implying. Why should a story be diverse for the sake of diversity? Why should token characters and tropes be shoehorned in as a way to appeal tot he SJW demographic? Blizzard tried withs with a character or two and received quite a bit of backlash -- and that pretty much says that the folks who want to force diversity are the ones who don't play video games. The people who watch Anita's videos aren't too knowledgeable about video games and their demographics to begin with, as she blatantly misrepresents the industry on a regular basis. I repeat: She. Is. A. Liar. This has been repeatedly proven again and again. And her associated with Johnathan Macintosh only raises further questions as he's the person who _writes_ what she _says_! But this diversification thing is something that extends into the real world as well: quotas make absolutely no sense. Additionally, again for the umpteenth time, Zoe Quinn was covered up for and lied about. This is what kicked off the movement, though more was revealed with digging.

Beyond that, it's clear that you have your camp and I have mine. If you don't want to educate yourself, then I can't help or reason with you. Cheers.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

People on the internet whining that there aren't enough openly gay characters in Lord of the Rings are morons. 

The story is more important than the characters' sex lives, and fictional places don't necessarily have to be cosmopolitan utopias that are vaguely representative of an American demographic. 

They are make-believe societies which have their own demography, social issues etc.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

True, but I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with people wanting more representation in the media. It just shouldn't be made out to be an important priority that gets in the way of the creation of art.

As for GG...I do genuinely believe it was and still is about ethics in journalism. Its just....Many there sometimes forget what they're supposed to be doing and wind up wrongfully pointing the finger at the wrong things in the wrong direction. Also mean people, but they're everywhere these days.





Volkodav said:


> here you go red
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/
> 
> read away.


KEEP THAT FILTHY SUBREDDIT AWAY FROM THE EYES OF MANKIND
...Everyone is mean there. 
Oh wait I thought that was a link to Gamer Ghazi. Have no idea how I mistook the two.
Never mind. Carry on.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So much talk of corruption and ethics in KiA, yes, no hatred towards women, feminists and SJWs at all. 

Honestly, I know I'm repeating myself but the reading comprehension where people don't even understand their own movement is incredibly funny.

EDIT:


Fallowfox said:


> People on the internet whining that there aren't enough openly gay characters in Lord of the Rings are morons.
> 
> The story is more important than the characters' sex lives, and fictional places don't necessarily have to be cosmopolitan utopias that are vaguely representative of an American demographic.
> 
> They are make-believe societies which have their own demography, social issues etc.



Dude, heterosexual characters have their sexuality mentioned all the time in art and literature without it having anything to do with the plot at all, why is it so bad to give gays some of the same visibility?


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't see anything in that subreddit that shows hatred towards women. Hell, one thread on the front page even appears to be trying to support some female developers.
But never mind that. The best subreddit for GG on reddit is anti-gamergate, as its actually just a GG discussion place. Not really for or against anything. Skew things too hard in one or the other direction and the truth is lost.

And yeah, it would be cool to see more gay romances in works that have romantic parts in them, even when they aren't relevant to the overarching plot. Honestly, romance appears in tons of works when it isn't important or relevant. Heterosexuality is fairly commonly shown in works where it isn't important.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> So much talk of corruption and ethics in KiA, yes, no hatred towards women, feminists and SJWs at all.
> 
> Honestly, I know I'm repeating myself but the reading comprehension where people don't even understand their own movement is incredibly funny.
> 
> ...



It's not bad to have gay characters, but it's frustrating when authors deliberately go out of their way to present what they believe is a desirable demographic and set of social customs, as if every fictional world _has _to have customs which we would personally approve of. 
It reminds the reader of the author's desperation to appear politically sensitive, and consequently spoils the illusion. 

Straight characters obviously get mentioned all the time because most societies have customs built around heterosexual relationships. Their sex lives are integral to a society and it would be weird if we contrived a fictional society which deliberately took effort to avoid mention of anything heterosexual.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> It's not bad to have gay characters, but it's frustrating when authors deliberately go out of their way to present what they believe is a desirable demographic and set of social customs, as if every fictional world _has _to have customs which we would personally approve of.
> It reminds the reader of the author's desperation to appear politically sensitive, and consequently spoils the illusion.
> 
> Straight characters obviously get mentioned all the time because most societies have customs built around heterosexual relationships. Their sex lives are integral to a society and it would be weird if we contrived a fictional society which deliberately took effort to avoid mention of anything heterosexual.


So what would the difference be between doing it right or going out of your way to do so? Just curious.



Battlechili1 said:


> I don't see anything in that subreddit that shows hatred towards women.


Hmm, the front page was different when I checked this morning, maybe because Satoru Iwata died. I know I saw more hatred directed towards specific women this morning.

Reddit's a shit site anyway.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Doing it right: it might turn out that characters are gay, if it's relevant to the story, or if the story is set in a culture where people are open about sexuality. 

Doing it wrong: Whining that Legolas in the Lord of the Rings should be gay purely for the purpose of trying to appear inclusive.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Doing it right: it might turn out that characters are gay, if it's relevant to the story, or if the story is set in a culture where people are open about sexuality.
> 
> Doing it wrong: Whining that Legolas in the Lord of the Rings should be gay purely for the purpose of trying to appear inclusive.


Well, now I don't get ya, you're not saying what the bad approach to diversity in fiction is, you're merely upset over criticism, apparently. There's nothing wrong with criticism. I asked what the wrong way to have diversity in a story would be, not about the criticism of stories.

And why does homosexuality need to be relevant to the story and not heterosexuality?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, now I don't get ya, you're not saying what the bad approach to diversity in fiction is, you're merely upset over criticism, apparently. *There's nothing wrong with criticism*. I asked what the wrong way to have diversity in a story would be, not about the criticism of stories.
> 
> And why does homosexuality need to be relevant to the story and not heterosexuality?



Do you think I fucking think there's anything wrong with criticism?

I just think that _your_ criticisms are retarded. *You.

*


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Do you think I fucking think there's anything wrong with criticism?
> 
> I just think that _your_ criticisms are retarded. *You.
> 
> *


Criticism is criticism. You don't have to like it but you seem unsettlingly upset about it.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Criticism is criticism. You don't have to like it but you seem unsettlingly upset about it.



I keep trying to explain why I think your tacit accusations of prejudice in classic fiction, such as racism or homophobia you perceive in Lord of the rings because there are no black or openly gay characters, are silly. 

Every time I do though you retreat to the position 'oh I'm just criticising', as if this makes your views so sacred that nobody else is allowed to have any opinion about what you say. 

I think your criticisms of books, a preoccupation with the colour of characters' skins or who they sleep with, are facile and that changing the characters in books to make them look more like they come from 21st century North America would disrupt the story's illusion; can you handle that criticism? 

Your criticisms haven't been properly justified, they just go with the presumption that if a story is set in a country without a significant black population, that this somehow oppresses _real _black people. Â¬_Â¬ [unless it's set in India or China, then it's completely fine!]


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I keep trying to explain why I think your tacit accusations of prejudice in classic fiction, such as racism or homophobia you perceive in Lord of the rings because there are no black or openly gay characters, are silly.
> 
> Every time I do though you retreat to the position 'oh I'm just criticising', as if this makes your views so sacred that nobody else is allowed to have any opinion about what you say.
> 
> ...


I feel that you may be oversimplifying things. I don't think Lord of the Rings is by any means oppressive. I mean, it wasn't helping but it wasn't hurting. I wouldn't go so far as to call it racist or homophobic.

My views aren't sacred. People can disagree and I might be enlightened but the first step would be to not be so hostile about criticisms like mine.

I'm also not demanding changing work, changing what's already been written is a shit practice, but raising such criticism may help shape future works of fictions by other creators or maybe even the same creator. Don't change the past - improve the future.

We're doing art a disservice by only focusing on technicalities like plot devices, narrative mechanics, structure, or in the case of video games; gameplay mechanics, graphics, etc. Talking about diversity issues should be fair game and we could learn a lot from it. Getting defensive about these discussions is hindering possible artistic evolution.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If any of the LOTR games had romance choices like they do in Mass effect or dragon age, I can see why some people would be upset.
However, LOTR isn't mass Effect nor Dragon Age where you can have RPG romance choices that are a small relevance to the plot whether if you engage in them or not.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> If any of the LOTR games had romance choices like they do in Mass effect or dragon age, I can see why some people would be upset.
> However, LOTR isn't mass Effect nor Dragon Age where you can have RPG romance choices that are a small relevance to the plot whether if you engage in them or not.




Kellie isn't even complaining about the games. Earlier in this thread, she complained that the Lord of the Rings book series didn't have enough black people in it and that this was an artifact of the 'racist society' in which Tolkien lived and wrote his famous works. She thinks there aren't enough gay characters, and expressed her feeling that famous works of fiction had an obligation to include token transsexual characters because that would have made her feel normal as she was growing up.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't like the idea of shoehorning gay characters.into a game to make it more inclusive
its easy to mention ggay characters without saying HED GAY HES GAY HES GAY, using my Witcher 3 review as an example
as soon as you start shoehorning "minorities" into games, you start shoehorning stereotypes in too

This is the reason why i find BET so insufferable and cant watch it for 5 mins


@battlechili
i go on KiA a lot and never see misogyny 
didnt see it last night either.


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I don't like the idea of shoehorning gay characters.into a game to make it more inclusive
> its easy to mention ggay characters without saying HED GAY HES GAY HES GAY, using my Witcher 3 review as an example
> as soon as you start shoehorning "minorities" into games, you start shoehorning stereotypes in too
> 
> This is the reason why i find BET so insufferable and cant watch it for 5 mins



There's a difference between what bioware does and another company...let's say Ubisoft and Ass-Creed Syndicate with their latest revelation of adding a female (side) protagonist.  The latter is just doing it because they want to pander and recieved backlash and crit when they said games with female protagonists do not sell well...or their's didn't because they put Ass-Creed on a platform that had a very small library of games instead of the main consoles. (PS Vita has a crap library save for a few)
The problem with forcing things into games in order to pander is that it winds up falling short when its forced. Bioware can add in a character that happens to be trans instead of forcing it in.



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie isn't even complaining about the games. Earlier in this thread, she complained that the Lord of the Rings book series didn't have enough black people in it and that this was an artifact of the 'racist society' in which Tolkien lived and wrote his famous works. She thinks there aren't enough gay characters, and expressed her feeling that famous works of fiction had an obligation to include token transsexual characters because that would have made her feel normal as she was growing up.



Welp...


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## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I won't accept Lordof The Rings until it gives us gay characters
I mean Frodo might be gay but how do we KNOW that?
I need to see a hobbit sex scene PRONTO. LIMP WRISTS, THE WORKS
GIVE ME GAY, I WANT THE GAY
I WANT TO *FEEL* THE GAY


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

My eyes!


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Good examples of the homo
Harry Potter
Witcher 3
The Last of Us


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Nah, it's just me reacting to the thread as a whole. Like a really big, gaping rim of a hole.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 13, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Lel
Even GamerGhazi (anti-GG) is linking to KiA, because theyre embarrased over journalists using Strawpoll as a source
https://archive.is/qudeK

lmao lmao lmao
SJW you fucked up


----------



## Astrium (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The Last of Us



I was about to ask what this game has to do with gayness but then I remembered that Fake Ellen Page is revealed to be a lesbian in the DLC story.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I was about to ask what this game has to do with gayness but then I remembered that Fake Ellen Page is revealed to be a lesbian in the DLC story.



Yup
and it wasn't forced on us either. It was shown to be "just a friendship" at first but teaches us not to just assume someone is straight

If you force LGBT hcaracters into a game to say LOOK, LOOK, GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY, WE'RE PROGRESSIVE, you end up throwing in stereotypes
this wasnt the case in TLOU!!!


[yt]1W-h5OZPARg[/yt]

for those of yall who havent played the game, throughoutt he entire thing, Ellen Page is shown to be desperately looking for her friend (the other girl). There are many cutscenes/flashbacks to when they were friends and whatnot
It's assumed that they're just best friends, but they turn out to be lesbo


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The only gay that should be shoehorned into gaming is Garrus from Mass Effect. You could bromance so hard, but Bioware never developed it for some unknown reason.

Beyond that, leave the gender/race/orientation tokens at the door. This is like the folks who wanted female Space Marines in Warhammer 40K. Just let a universe be a universe, 'kay?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://durkin62.tumblr.com/post/124011182342/testingforcake23-demonsouls


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> The only gay that should be shoehorned into gaming is Garrus from Mass Effect. You could bromance so hard, but Bioware never developed it for some unknown reason.
> 
> Beyond that, leave the gender/race/orientation tokens at the door. This is like the folks who wanted female Space Marines in Warhammer 40K. Just let a universe be a universe, 'kay?



If you add it into the game without it going "Hey, we have vaginas in this game. Female mariiiinnnneeesss", then you can still have girls in W40k without pandering to attract a wider audience. There's doing it right and then there's doing it because you want to cash out. What makes it token is if you have a female character that's on the side shouting "I have a vagina" every time she's in a scene.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> If you add it into the game without it going "Hey, we have vaginas in this game. Female mariiiinnnneeesss", then you can still have girls in W40k without pandering to attract a wider audience. There's doing it right and then there's doing it because you want to cash out. What makes it token is if you have a female character that's on the side shouting "I have a vagina" every time she's in a scene.


They already have the "Battle Nuns", though in the universe there are reasons for the male marines. Though that's not to say you don't have women in the Imperial Guard, Commissariate, Inquisition, as Planetary Governors, as Tech Priest, etc etc. But >having< something for the sake of diversity is quite a stupid reason to have something, forcing an entity to shoehorn something into their creation. I'll call Warhorse Studios to the front because they've encountered the hate mob over their game. (I'm so ready for Kingdom Come: Deliverance)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie isn't even complaining about the games. Earlier in this thread, she complained that the Lord of the Rings book series didn't have enough black people in it and that this was an artifact of the 'racist society' in which Tolkien lived and wrote his famous works. She thinks there aren't enough gay characters, and expressed her feeling that famous works of fiction had an obligation to include token transsexual characters because that would have made her feel normal as she was growing up.


You are free to disagree but you keep putting words in my mouth, mate.

YOU brought up Lord of the Rings when I was talking about The Witcher III, I explained why there was probably not a lot of diversity in it and I said it was okay when taking into account when the damn books were written. And I never accused Tolkien of being fucking homophobic, I never even read the damn thing 'cause I don't even like fantasy.

I only mentioned transgender stuff because I wanted to share a personal story about what can happen when media denies your existence or always portrays you in a negative light.

Fallow, I don't even dislike you and I know you're capable of civil discussions but actually debate instead of putting words in my mouth when telling others about the situation. I never called LOTR racist, homophobic, transphobic or FUCKING ANYTHING, I just said The Witcher III has a race problem. People disagree with me on that notion but that's okay. But don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

How does the Witcher III have a race problem? A game universe based upon a bastardized form of Slavic folklore and centered in eastern europe with a rough middle age theme and time frame? All in all it sounds pretty legitimate. I feel you need to explain yourself instead of disengaging and turtling in the shell of "We got our opinions!".


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> How does the Witcher III have a race problem? A game universe based upon a bastardized form of Slavic folklore and centered in eastern europe with a rough middle age theme and time frame?



It has a race problem because we haven't shoved token black characters into nordic/slavic/ancient european game.

https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre...eeds-to-stop?p=5278769&viewfull=1#post5278769


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> It has a race problem because we haven't shoved token black characters into nordic/slavic/ancient european game.
> 
> https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre...eeds-to-stop?p=5278769&viewfull=1#post5278769


Goddamn you bolted that down pretty well. I don't understand the opposition to this. Is CD Project Red racist for not adding in non-whites? I'm trying to wrap my head around it and I just can't.


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I honestly believe that if you were to shove token black characters into a game like Witcher 3 (that has already shown to have good ole homophobia), blacks would be treated like anyone else who isn't "the norm" in the game.

So yknow
Somethin to think abouit


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

People are free to correct me on this but as far as I can tell The Witcher series doesn't actually take place in Europe so I don't see how adding people of color would be historically inaccurate in a game that's historically inaccurate.

But if CD Projekt RED didn't wanna add people of color in the game, well, fair enough. They have the right to do as they want. I'm just explaining why I think it's kind of dumb. Not necessarily racist, I'm not that harsh, but it's dumb.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Frodo and Sam were fucking in Mordor, and anyone who says different is in denial :V


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I suppose I'll have to throw in a token white-guy for my African and Zulu culture inspired fetish doll hunting game. Wouldn't want it to be racially undiverse.


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I suppose I'll have to throw in a token white-guy for my African and Zulu culture inspired fetish doll hunting game. Wouldn't want it to be racially undiverse.



Just ONE??????


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Frodo and Sam were fucking in Mordor, and anyone who says different is in denial :V



And I thought I'm the only person here who likes to ship those 2


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I suppose I'll have to throw in a token white-guy for my African and Zulu culture inspired fetish doll hunting game. Wouldn't want it to be racially undiverse.


People really like twisting my words today. I'm not asking for a token white/black guy; either have diversity with at least a couple of each race or have a good explanation for why there is no diversity that makes sense in the context of the story. I'm surprised this is so hard for some to understand.

Diversity shouldn't be forced but don't expect people not to ask questions unless you actually provide a convincing explanation for it all. And "slavic mythology" doesn't really count because that's not historically accurate. Remember Sony's E3 press conference ten years ago when they showcased Genji 2 for the PS3, a game that first said it was taking place in real, historically accurate battles in Feudal Japan... and then "HERE'S THIS GIANT ENEMY CRAB AND YOU ATTACK IT'S WEAK POINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE".

We laughed our asses off. My point is, mythology and history don't work as well together as some would like to think.

And can SOMEONE please answer me, does The Witcher take place in Europe or not?


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I mean, San Andreas isn't in America, but we know it's meant to be a hybrid of Los Angelas, San Fransisco, etc. Liberty City is a New York/Boston/Detroit clone. 

No. Witcher 3 is not in Europe. But for christ sakes, Volk spelled it out word for goddamned word here. https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre...eeds-to-stop?p=5278769&viewfull=1#post5278769


This is set in a Slavic, Polish inspired setting in medival times. Black people weren't there. Just like white people weren't in my African inspired zulu prince fetish doll hunting game.

I mean. Didn't we already have this conversation over Skype? You and me? :/ We came to a mutual understanding. Either you have a short memory or you just threw it all out the window.


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## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I mean, San Andreas isn't in America, but we know it's meant to be a hybrid of Los Angelas, San Fransisco, etc. Liberty City is a New York/Boston/Detroit clone.
> 
> No. Witcher 3 is not in Europe. But for christ sakes, Volk spelled it out word for goddamned word here. https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre...eeds-to-stop?p=5278769&viewfull=1#post5278769
> 
> ...



You could say its set in medieval Poland/Europe and be correct, just like you could say San Andreas is set in Cali


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I mean. Didn't we already have this conversation over Skype? You and me? :/ We came to a mutual understanding. Either you have a short memory or you just threw it all out the window.


This thread is a mess and I shouldn't have brought it up again, I just got caught up in the heat of the moment. FallowFox was putting words in my mouth, I said he only brought up LOTR because I brought up Witcher III, people asked questions and I answered.

I have to repeat and emphasize this, Fallow accused me of accusing LOTR of racism and even more confusingly, homophobia and transphobia? Why? Because I merely talked about my personal life experiences as an example about what lack of visibility and positive representation of groups of people can do. But I never directly accused LOTR of transphobia, that's just moronic.

So yeah, we're done with Witcher III. I just don't like people putting words in my mouth.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

And all of a sudden, after being brought sound logic and evidence, we're done talking about it. 

Okay then.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAc...layboys_katriel_paige_includes_game_dev_anna/


lel


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> And all of a sudden, after being brought sound logic and evidence, we're done talking about it.
> 
> Okay then.


I just told you why the subject was brought up again, but I have no intention to start this debate again.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Frodo and Sam were fucking in Mordor, and anyone who says different is in denial :V



ohh mister frodo. ohh sam. ohh mister frodo! oh sam! OHH MISTER FRODO!!!! OOOOOHHH SAAAAAMMMMMM!!!!!!


----------



## Ozriel (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

How about Resident evil 5 being racist, hrmm?
Forget that we have CoD games that go to countries to shoot brown and yellow people. Yet, Resident evil 5 was exclusively racist for having a setting in Africa and a white protagonist shooting black people. :V
(Spoiler: the story is more or less about the exploitation of under-developed countries. The game isn't racist)


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

sorry ozriel
cant give my opinion on a game ive never played or seen played
(;


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> How about Resident evil 5 being racist, hrmm?
> Forget that we have CoD games that go to countries to shoot brown and yellow people. Yet, Resident evil 5 was exclusively racist for having a setting in Africa and a white protagonist shooting black people. :V
> (Spoiler: the story is more or less about the exploitation of under-developed countries. The game isn't racist)


I don't wanna say too much about RE5 'cause I didn't play it but I've heard it was racist for reasons other than it taking place in Africa and you shooting black people. Something about the game generally portraying Africans in a bad light but since I never played the damn game I'm admittedly not entirely sure. Something about a part where you fight Africans living in grass huts and using spears, I think?

COD is... probably racist but I never played that either so I don't wanna judge.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> sorry ozriel
> cant give my opinion on a game ive never played or seen played
> (;


if only sarkeesian had this attitude


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I feel like you may be putting words in my  mouth. I haven't called anyone racist. *I do, to an extent, believe  erasure is a form of racism* but *I sincerely doubt Tolkien, Andzrej  Sapkowski and CD Projekt RED are deliberately racist with any kind of  malicious intent, but they seem blind to the world around them and may  be indirectly and unknowingly contributing to a problem.
> *
> "Racist" is a heavy word that I don't use lightly. And even so, racist  game =/= bad game, at least not automatically. I'm currently enjoying a  little 1997 FPS called Shadow Warrior, which is one of the most racist  games I've ever played. But it makes me giggle 'cause I'm terrible.  :V





Kellie Gator said:


> Well, I haven't actually read Tolkien's work  and have only seen the first Lord of the Rings and Hobbit (didn't care  much, not a big fantasy fan aside from Conan the Barbarian) so I'm not  gonna pretend I know shit about it. Those Oxford feminists should maybe  cut Tolkien some slack, though... *Tolkien wrote that shit many decades  ago in a very different past, and while it's somewhat unfortunate that  no people of color are there in middle-earth*, I think it's unfair to  judge old books by modern standards.
> 
> The world was different, society was different, and society shapes our  perception of reality and in turn, the art and media we create. Sure, I  don't think talking about race in Tolkien's works is off-limits, but  accusing it of being racist right off the bat without thinking about it  is kind of ignorant. You have to think about context and take when the  book was released into account.* There was a different worldview back  then and not the kind of awareness of people of color like there is  today*, or the same kind if international audience.
> 
> ...




Kellie did express her view that Tolkien's Lord of the Rings should have had more black characters. The story _is _set in an analogue of knights-in-shining-armour Europe, but that's no reason not to...you know...throw some random black people in just to be 'inclusive'. It is 'unfortunate' that he didn't. 

Of course, Tolkien wrote his 'shit' long ago, when people had a different world view, by which Kellie presumably means a world view intolerant of black people appearing in works of fiction.  
_That_ must be the reason that middle earth's characters are elves and dwarves, rather than Nigerians and Congolese. 

Remember though, guys. Tolkien isn't being racist, but his failure to include enough token black characters is 'erasure' and _is_ a form of racism...


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> if only sarkeesian had this attitude



This video is pretty fuckin funny though

[yt]wtS7Hzw9y8g[/yt]


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie did express her view that Tolkien's Lord of the Rings should have had more black characters. The story _is _set in an analogue of knights-in-shining-armour Europe, but that's no reason not to...you know...throw some random black people in just to be 'inclusive'. It is 'unfortunate' that he didn't.
> 
> Of course, Tolkien wrote his 'shit' long ago, when people had a different world view, by which Kellie presumably means a world view intolerant of black people appearing in works of fiction.
> _That_ must be the reason that middle earth's characters are elves and dwarves, rather than Nigerians and Congolese.
> ...


Lord of the Rings doesn't place in real world Europe, though. :I

I mean, no need to change what's already been written but I dunno what more I can say. It just doesn't take place in Europe.


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Lord of the Rings doesn't place in real world Europe, though. :I
> 
> I mean, no need to change what's already been written but I dunno what more I can say. It just doesn't take place in Europe.



"Analogue of Europe"


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Lord of the Rings doesn't place in real world Europe, though. :I
> 
> I mean, no need to change what's already been written but I dunno what more I can say. It just doesn't take place in Europe.



It's based on European mythology and...mother of god, the characters are Europeans and mythological creatures from Europe.

If a story based on Indian mythology had Indian characters and Indian legendary figures, rather than Swedish ones, would you be crying about societal racism and erasure then? ._.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie did express her view that Tolkien's Lord of the Rings should have had more black characters. The story _is _set in an analogue of knights-in-shining-armour Europe, but that's no reason not to...you know...throw some random black people in just to be 'inclusive'. It is 'unfortunate' that he didn't.
> 
> Of course, Tolkien wrote his 'shit' long ago, when people had a different world view, by which Kellie presumably means a world view intolerant of black people appearing in works of fiction.
> _That_ must be the reason that middle earth's characters are elves and dwarves, rather than Nigerians and Congolese.
> ...


I hope you're being sarcastic.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I hope you're being sarcastic.



He is, don't worry


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

*wipes brow* That's a relief, I was about to sound the alarm.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> It's based on European mythology and...mother of god, the characters are Europeans and mythological creatures from Europe.
> 
> If a story based on Indian mythology had Indian characters and Indian legendary figures, rather than Swedish ones, would you be crying about societal racism and erasure then? ._.


Humans aren't mythological creatures so shouldn't they be excluded, too?

Good news everyone, I might actually stop soon because at this point we're all just being broken records.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Humans aren't mythological creatures so shouldn't they be excluded, too?
> 
> Good news everyone, I might actually stop soon because at this point we're all just being broken records.


But you still have failed to explain why the Witcher III has a race problem.


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Humans aren't mythological creatures so shouldn't they be excluded, too?
> 
> Good news everyone, I might actually stop soon because at this point we're all just being broken records.



The characters are based on Europeans and there are mythological creatures from Europe in the book. Two separate things. You want black people, there's orcs. That's all you get.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> *wipes brow* That's a relief, I was about to sound the alarm.



[yt]vdrqA93sW-8[/yt]


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> But you still have failed to explain why the Witcher III has a race problem.


I explained earlier in this thread and linked to an article about it. :I


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I explained earlier in this thread and linked to an article about it. :I


Link please?

I also counter with this.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I explained earlier in this thread and linked to an article about it. :I



And that article was silly. T

The author claimed that, if the game had been about Chinese folklore and only contained Chinese people, that it wouldn't have been racist. 
He said that it was only racist because it was a European game with European people in it, that white people should be held to a different standard because they were historical oppressors. 
This is even more hilarious because the Slavic people, which the witcher books and subsequent games are about, have historically been the victim of oppression in Europe, rather than the perpetrator.

He literally put forth the argument that 'this isn't actually racist, but white people need to be put in their place, and we can only do that with token black characters'  
Damn those Polish empire builders for colonising tropical Africa, damn them! :V
The oppressed Africans will be avenged, by...being featured in Polish video games!


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm so sick of "white guilt", and I'm glad that the developers aren't giving into that nonsense.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> And that article was silly. T
> 
> The author claimed that, if the game had been about Chinese folklore and only contained Chinese people, that it wouldn't have been racist.
> He said that it was only racist because it was a European game with European people in it, that white people should be held to a different standard because they were historical oppressors.
> ...


The article doesn't get everything right, that it misses that Slavs were oppressed is an unfortunate mistake. But the general point is still valid as far as I'm concerned; if the game doesn't take place in Europe you don't have as many excuses to have people of color in it.

Perhaps, instead of asking why have people of color, we should ask _why not?_


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The article doesn't get everything right, that it misses that Slavs were oppressed is an unfortunate mistake. But the general point is still valid as far as I'm concerned; if the game doesn't take place in Europe you don't have as many excuses to have people of color in it.
> 
> Perhaps, instead of asking why have people of color, we should ask _why not?_



If the game is set somewhere that is predominately white like Scandinavia or the South, that's why not.



Volkodav said:


> I'm so sick of "white guilt", and I'm glad that the developers aren't giving into that nonsense.



Agreed. I'm Native and I think white guilt is stupid. There's a fine line between teaching people that their ancestors made mistakes and guilting people over what their ancestors did.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> If the game is set somewhere that is predominately white like Scandinavia or the South, that's why not.


"Like" doesn't mean "is". Witcher is "like" Europe, but it is not Europe. At least have some established explanation in the story 'cause only having whites without actually explaining that shit is kind of dumb.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The article doesn't get everything right, that it misses that Slavs were oppressed is an unfortunate mistake. But the general point is still valid as far as I'm concerned; if the game doesn't take place in Europe you don't have as many excuses to have people of color in it.
> 
> Perhaps, instead of asking why have people of color, we should ask _why not?_


Are you serious? Are you even hearing what you're saying and what universe you're talking about?

Let me put it this way: _Metro: Last Light_ needs more POC. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> "Like" doesn't mean "is". Witcher is "like" Europe, but it is not Europe. At least have some established explanation in the story 'cause only having whites without actually explaining that shit is kind of dumb.



Like doesn't mean is? I guess that means social justice is like wanting equality then.

Are you of a minority? If so, why do you want your minority shoved into everything possible?

If not, why are you arguing for the rights of minorities? We can do just fine on our own.

I don't want Native Americans shoved into the Holy Grail or Romeo and Juliet where they don't belong. I would like more stories in a setting where there are Native Americans. Wanting a specific demographic i.e. Latinos or Asians in a setting where that is not realistic accomplishes nothing but makes people dislike social justice even more.

Here's an explanation for Witcher 3's lack of minorities. It is set in a fictionalized version of Scandinavia which is fantasy in some aspects but as a setting is mostly real. In Scandanavia, it is predominately white.

You could watch a video of Pearl Harbor bombings and wonder why there weren't any black kamikazes.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Are you serious? Are you even hearing what you're saying and what universe you're talking about?
> 
> Let me put it this way: _Metro: Last Light_ needs more POC. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?


I haven't played that game but since it takes place in a post-apocalyptic russia, as in, REAL LIFE RUSSIA it would actually make sense to not have a lot of POC in it. The Witcher is a bloody fantasy game in a fantasy world that doesn't have IRL history.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I haven't played that game but since it takes place in a post-apocalyptic russia, as in, REAL LIFE RUSSIA it would actually make sense to not have a lot of POC in it. The Witcher is a bloody fantasy game in a fantasy world that doesn't have IRL history.


http://i.imgur.com/3Bub7sb.png

Tao already took care for you. Have a great day.


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I haven't played that game but since it takes place in a post-apocalyptic russia, as in, REAL LIFE RUSSIA it would actually make sense to not have a lot of POC in it. The Witcher is a bloody fantasy game in a fantasy world that doesn't have IRL history.



The world itself in certain elements is fantastical, such as magic and all. But many video games and movies and such use a real setting as a basis. They take Scandinavia and see what it would be like if it had demons and magic. That's not too hard to understand, correct? Now, the geography is largely similar to real life as would make sense since it is based on the real world as I said. If you want to talk biology, the climate of an area like Scandinavia or the fictional world of the Witcher does not support dark-skinned people. Let's take Scandinavia for example. The people there are fair-skinned because it is very cold and very cloudy. White skin is white because the people there didn't exactly spend their time sunbathing nude. People in Africa have become dark-skinned because thousands of years of being in the hot sun wearing little clothing darkens the skin. Darker skin contains more melanin which helps protect your skin from the harmful effects of UV radiation. Scandinavians don't need it because they're exposed to UV light as much as Africans.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> Are you of a minority? If so, why do you want your minority shoved into everything possible?


I am a minority because I'm trans but you're putting words in my mouth. I don't want trans people shoved everywhere but at the very least it should be open for discussion, although it always depends heavily on the context of the story. Trans people in, say, BioShock Infinite would be fucking weird because of the ultra-christian conservative society there.



Tao said:


> Here's an explanation for Witcher 3's lack of minorities. It is set in a fictionalized version of Scandinavia which is fantasy in some aspects but as a setting is mostly real. In Scandanavia, it is predominately white.
> 
> You could watch a video of Pearl Harbor bombings and wonder why there weren't any black kamikazes.


This is where our problem is, people's inability to distinguish reality from fiction. The Witcher III takes place in a fantasy landscape, Pearl Harbor was a real place. Since the Witcher doesn't take place in Europe it needs to try harder to explain it's whites only setting. Instead we just have to assume it only has whites because "lol folklore".

But like I've repeatedly said; if this is what the source material's author or CD Projekt RED wants to do, they have that right. But I have a right to raise my points on it, too.


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I am a minority because I'm trans but you're putting words in my mouth. I don't want trans people shoved everywhere but at the very least it should be open for discussion, although it always depends heavily on the context of the story. Trans people in, say, BioShock Infinite would be fucking weird because of the ultra-christian conservative society there.
> 
> 
> This is where our problem is, people's inability to distinguish reality from fiction. The Witcher III takes place in a fantasy landscape, Pearl Harbor was a real place. Since the Witcher doesn't take place in Europe it needs to try harder to explain it's whites only setting. Instead we just have to assume it only has whites because "lol folklore".
> ...



Please read my post on biology. I'm an actual racial minority and I can assure you we don't need any help representing ourselves.


----------



## Ieono (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I agree that over-representation of atypical minorities in historical/regional fantasy in which they would not normally exist is probably not the best way to arrive at media equality. It just seems to create tokenism, which leads to many of the minority characters becoming absurd racial stereotypes and cliches. I wouldn't mind it if that wasn't the case, but it just seems to happen all of the time. Even in American television, tokenism is still going strong, especially in sitcoms and comedies with predominantly white casts (almost all of them).

I feel the same thing is responsible for poor portrayals of women in media. When the development team is mainly composed of men of a specific race, how could they create an insightful and non-stereotypical portrayal of a female or minority character? Especially when they come from very racially-homogeneous and patriarchal societies.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> Please read my post on biology. I'm an actual racial minority and I can assure you we don't need any help representing ourselves.


I did, and...

^Implying that it's in no way possible that people of color could've arrived in a location via travel, either for business or as slaves. That's like saying 12 Years A Slave is unrealistic because black people don't fit into that geographical location. God forbid they might've actually arrived to the location from somewhere else!


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I did, and...
> 
> ^Implying that it's in no way possible that people of color could've arrived in a location via travel, either for business or as slaves. That's like saying 12 Years A Slave is unrealistic because black people don't fit into that geographical location. God forbid they might've actually arrived in the location from somewhere else!



Black people generally did not end up in places like Scandinavia very often because the climate change from their natural habitat would not fare well for them. An area such as the fictional area of the Witcher 3 is geographically in such a location that it could not physically be anywhere close enough to a warmer climate to be a plausible trade route for Africans. They could be imported as slaves though, if that's really what you want. I'll have my good friend in CD Projekt Red add black slaves to the Witcher 3 in the latest patch.


----------



## Ieono (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Errr...what? 

12 Years A Slave is an adaptation of an actual autobiography. It is obvious to anyone that most people of African-descent arrived here during slavery, so that point doesn't correlate to what I was speaking about. I am referring to cases of fiction, not of nonfictional adaptations...


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UFiIYEfQ4 kellie's new name is krillin


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> I'll have my good friend in CD Projekt Red add black slaves to the Witcher 3 in the latest patch.


That my friend, is the best idea ever. Slavery patch! I'm not even gonna argue anymore because that's a hilarious and amazing idea.

...and then there would probably be another controversy because depicting racism is racist!

...yeah, I never got that kind of complaint. Well, sometimes I do but we shouldn't be afraid of portraying uglier sides of humanity, IMO.



Ieono said:


> Errr...what?
> 
> 12 Years A Slave is an adaptation of an actual autobiography. It is obvious to anyone that most people of African-descent arrived here during slavery, so that point doesn't correlate to what I was speaking about. I am referring to cases of fiction, not of nonfictional adaptations...


Well, some said I'd complain about Pearl Harbor not having enough black people even though Pearl Harbor clearly isn't fiction so there you go. 

My point was just that geography/biology isn't the strongest excuse in my book but I will confess that Tao did have points there that might make me reconsider my position a little. But Witcher III should still have a slave patch. :V


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The article doesn't get everything right, that it misses that Slavs were oppressed is an unfortunate mistake. But the general point is still valid as far as I'm concerned; if the game doesn't take place in Europe you don't have as many excuses to have people of color in it.
> 
> Perhaps, instead of asking why have people of color, we should ask _why not?_



You don't need to make any excuses about the ethnic demography of an imaginary fucking kingdom, do you? It doesn't matter if they're all slavic, all chinese, all bantu or half martian. 

The person who wrote the article acknowledged that it doesn't matter...unless they're white. Then it does, because you know, white people are evil.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Black people would be slaves/killed/abused/tormented in Witcher 3 universe
There
There you fucking go
There's our answer

Hell, dwarves (mythological) are treated like shit in-game too and dwarfism is a real fucking thing


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Someone should call the police because I think it's illegal to own someone like this.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> Someone should call the police because I think it's illegal to own someone like this.



http://orig05.deviantart.net/4c21/f/2011/241/a/c/profile_picture_by_dayum_plz-d487tea.jpg


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> Someone should call the police because I think it's illegal to own someone like this.



http://i.imgur.com/uTKMbFa.jpg


I'm just tired of feminists and SJW shitting on games I like
I'm tired of them sticking their noses where they don't belong. How about you go give a shit about women sexually harassing men in kilts to the point where they have to stop wearing kilts because women won't stop grabbing their cocks: http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/13/barme...se-women-kept-grabbing-their-penises-5293219/

Feminism is against sexual harassment of game characters, it's against sexualization of video game characters
How about they go deal with real issues instead of crying over the lack of token black characters in a game set in slavic/nordic/polish medieval age

fuck sakes
stop wasting time crying over fucking VIDEO GAMES.

If I don't like something or can't handle something (Resident Evil, for example. Watched as a kid, my brother traumatized me with it, and now I can't watch someone play it. TLOU was one of the only post-apoc/zombie games I enjoyed), I just DON'T WATCH/PLAY IT
I'm NEVER going to sit and bitch over this game to force the developers to change it or remove shit
Why are there zombies, this game is too scary for me  be considerate of players who dont like jumpscares
wahh


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://i.imgur.com/uTKMbFa.jpg
> 
> 
> I'm just tired of feminists and SJW shitting on games I like
> ...



Aye. People are too afraid to say that a woman is being sexist or offensive for fear they'll be labeled sexist. Same with racism and minorities too. There are more important things than video games though. How about how girls have their genitals mutilated in Africa forcibly? Or how middle eastern girls are treated in general?

Video games are dumb. If someone can complain about sexism in video games then I get to complain about sexism against men.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If a game becomes absolute crap because of some radical feminism bs, I'm 100% with you Volk. 

I'd just have an issue with 'overkill', but that's personal and opinionated, not a fact.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

OH NOES SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT A GAME I LIKE BAWWWWWWW

Man up, guys.~


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> If someone can complain about sexism in video games then I get to complain about sexism against men.



It just seems to me that perceived "sexism" in videogames is more important to feminists/SJW than actual sexual harassment IRL.
It's kinda weird!
They care so fucking much about black video game characters but turn a blind eye to the actual black community that is rife with it's own issues

It's just so much easier to defend a virtual character than it is a real one.


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> OH NOES SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT A GAME I LIKE BAWWWWWWW
> 
> Man up, guys.~



You can't tell me to man up, that's sexist.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> You can't tell me to man up, that's sexist.



Bruh

Nerd up.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> You can't tell me to man up, that's sexist.



Toxic masculinity in viddygames!!!!!!! this is big time issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAN UP, BRUH!!!!!




i do not want games to force gay characters into games as a gay man
if it happens then cool, i dont expect them to for me  i will enjoy them nonetheless


another vidyagame ive found myself enjoying is Ark: Survival Evolved
wish my computer was good enough to play it though!!!! id love to play w/ my ex bf


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> You can't tell me to man up, that's sexist.


Damn, you're right.

Grow some balls... grow some tits... is there any gender neutral version of this? :V


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Grow some balls... grow some tits... is there any gender neutral version of this? :V



Why not both?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Hows about we don't use someone's sex as leverage to tell them to "get over" things.

"Man up" is something male rape and domestic abuse victims are told quite often.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Why not both?


That would be... well, me. :S


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

its as simple as if you don't like the way the creator/artist envisioned his/her game don't buy it.  stop whining over trivial things that don't matter. maybe if feminism wasn't just a hate movement bend on demonizing everything and demanding a mandatory piece of every pie, they might accomplish something for once. but they wont. because these feminists are self entitled narcissistic cunts bend on shitting up the party for anyone having fun without them. 
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/879/162/2ac.jpg


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Hows about we don't use someone's sex as leverage to tell them to "get over" things.
> 
> "Man up" is something male rape and domestic abuse victims are told quite often.



I believe that sometimes people just need to get over things and other times they need help getting over them but their gender shouldn't matter. Like you said, sexism and violence against men goes largely unaddressed because of that.

I myself was a victim once and "man up" is pretty much what I was told.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Damn, you're right.
> 
> Grow some balls... grow some tits... is there any gender neutral version of this? :V



'Toughen up' 

But really, you're a bad loser if, having lost an argument, you think that shouting 'baw' in capslock will make anybody view you as any less of a petulent child throwing their toys out of the pram. :\


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> 'Toughen up'
> 
> But really, you're a bad loser if, having lost an argument, you think that shouting 'baw' in capslock will make anybody view you as any less of a petulent child throwing their toys out of the pram. :\


Maybe. I feel I'm kind of done and hopefully I'll mean it this time. Just a damned shame people feel so attacked by criticism of games. I like art and I feel getting defensive is doing it a disservice.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

here's something to chew on. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/files/2014/10/cohen_tweaked.jpg


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Maybe. I feel I'm kind of done and hopefully I'll mean it this time. Just a damned shame people feel so attacked by criticism of games. I like art and I feel getting defensive is doing it a disservice.



I think you and your ilk do art a disservice by spreading seditious rumours that projects people have toiled over are prejudiced, deterring other people from buying their goods or marring them such that others can't enjoy them. 

I think that it's necessary that those of us with a shred of sense speak out against people like you.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I think you and your ilk do art a disservice by spreading seditious rumours that projects people have toiled over are prejudiced, deterring other people from buying their goods or marring them such that others can't enjoy them.
> 
> I think that it's necessary that those of us with a shred of sense speak out against people like you.


I'm not as powerful as you'd like to believe. I'm just a loser on a forum with a PepÃ© le Pew avatar, I doubt I can convince anyone. Just making conversation, mate.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I always thought of "man up" as being more of a "stop acting like a kid" than "stop acting like a woman". As in "You're not a little boy anymore, man up!"


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I always thought of "man up" as being more of a "stop acting like a kid" than "stop acting like a woman". As in "You're not a little boy anymore, man up!"



The issue with the phrase "man up" is that it's almost ALWAYS used as a way to stop men from showing emotion or anything else that is perceived as being "weak"
like i said, men who cry about rape or domestic abuse


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I always thought of "man up" as being more of a "stop acting like a kid" than "stop acting like a woman". As in "You're not a little boy anymore, man up!"



I'm just going to note that this is often said during punishments, also saying "Be responsible for your actions".



Fallowfox said:


> I think that it's necessary that those of us with a shred of sense speak out against people like you.



No. She's an individual on her own, sharing her own opinions on something that may be relevant to her (but maybe not so much you).

If you have a strength to stand up for your rights, do it. If you can't enjoy something because somebody told you that xyz thing is wrong, you have insufficient willpower.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> I'm just going to note that this is often said during punishments, also saying "Be responsible for your actions".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Her views are actually parroted by the SJW crowd; I agree that they have 'insufficient willpower' as you put it. There's a strong movement in the American political left to attack things that are wrong to them and lack the diversity they require. There are numerous examples of them accusing others of racism or misogyny for not including certain things. Blizzard found out recently that pandering to these people only lead to more vitriol.

These people have serious political pull. We need more companies like the British protien supply company of whom rejected their demands.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's really disheartening to see that black people have become the de facto mascots of the SJW movement.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Her views are actually parroted by the SJW crowd; I agree that they have 'insufficient willpower' as you put it. There's a strong movement in the American political left to attack things that are wrong to them and lack the diversity they require. There are numerous examples of them accusing others of racism or misogyny for not including certain things. Blizzard found out recently that pandering to these people only lead to more vitriol.
> 
> These people have serious political pull. We need more companies like the British protien supply company of whom rejected their demands.



From what I've read so far, nothing seems to be anything leaning to her being racist, rather, making comments regarding to the realism and suspension of disbelief [indirectly] of the games. For example, if we're talking about China, we would expect to see many Chinese people, maybe gay at that. It wouldn't break away from our understanding of the real life counterpart, enhancing gameplay. Scrutiny comes when this is forced, and it's happening more often.

I assume that criticism comes from the drama of the situation ;Groups trying to change things that are sometimes irrelevant to the product. I'm just making more inferences here, but I think that the anger is a knee-jerk reaction to changing the things gamers knew and loved.

It is a shame that so much power may be given to the tyrant minority, but nobody's acting on it. It bothers me.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> I'm just going to note that this is often said during punishments, also saying "Be responsible for your actions".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As Zuriak said, Kellie's views are representative of a significant chunk of the political left, who subscribe to a holier than-thou offended-by-everything philosophy, which is large enough to force Universities to dismiss their Professors, and which has an unfortunate hold in a lot of campus societies, including mine. 

Your enjoyment of media you like will be spoiled, when the people at your university deride it as sexist, racist, and so forth, and start votes to get media they don't approve of banned on the campus grounds. My College recently banned certain songs because they believed it was possible that the lyrics would trigger rape survivors. 
Meanwhile the Feminist society, called Cuntry life, was busy discussing the deplorable truth that all classic books ever were written by racist bigots, or so it would seem if you read their material. 

This spoils people's fun because social justice warriors have made it their business to be kill joys; they're not concerned with tangible social ill at all, but with subjective interpretations of song titles, or the 'white supremacist' overtones they believe are supported in Lord of the Rings. 

They are people who, if you tell them that you didn't vote for the same party as you, begin crying and tell you they're 'morally disgusted' with you.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> maybe if feminism wasn't just a hate movement bend on demonizing everything and demanding a mandatory piece of every pie, they might accomplish something for once.



"I don't know anything about feminism, so allow me to ignore the actual studies and experiences of people and instead speculate based on some assumptions that I feel more comfortable with."

Jesus christ people, are you seriously incapable of enjoying your shitty video game titles while at the same time criticizing  the sexist themes found in them ? Can your brain not handle that ?


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> "I don't know anything about feminism, so allow me to ignore the actual studies and experiences of people and instead speculate based on some assumptions that I feel more comfortable with."
> 
> Jesus christ people, are you seriously incapable of enjoying your shitty video game titles while at the same time criticizing  the sexist themes found in them ? Can your brain not handle that ?



"I don't know anything about feminism either!"


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> "I don't know anything about feminism either!"



I'll paypal you $5 if you can give me a solid definition in your own words.


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> I'll paypal you $5 if you can give me a solid definition in your own words.



Feminism as a concept is about empowering women. Unfortunately that simple goal is often reached by the wrong means. Some feminists will put men down ,for  example, to try to empower women. Others will attempt to draw awareness to their cause by crying wolf and playing a victim. Feminism as a concept is different from the feminist movement.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*




Tao said:


> Feminism as a concept is about empowering women. Unfortunately that simple goal is often reached by the wrong means. Some feminists will put men down ,for  example, to try to empower women. Others will attempt to draw awareness to their cause by crying wolf and playing a victim. Feminism as a concept is different from the feminist movement.


You get a D for effort.
"Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak?" - That Mao quote perfectly describes why feminists have to constantly tell men like you to shut the fuck up.

*If feminists are getting rape and death threats for critiquing the presence of misogyny, trans-misogyny and other complex forms of oppression found in pop-culture- that's proof that we still have a long way to go before we reach a true egalitarian society.

When men shit on modern feminists and claim to know what feminism *should* be, without having any idea what the struggle is all about - that's proves how badly we need feminism. *



Tao said:


> Feminism as a concept is different from the feminist movement.


What does this even mean ?


----------



## Tao (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> You get a D for effort.
> "Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak?" - That Mao quote perfectly describes why feminists have to constantly tell men like you to shut the fuck up.
> 
> *If feminists are getting rape and death threats for critiquing the presence of misogyny, trans-misogyny and other complex forms of oppression found in pop-culture- that's proof that we still have a long way to go before we reach a true egalitarian society.
> ...



It means exactly what it says. I can use smaller words if you need.

We don't need feminism, we need equality regardless of race, gender, whatever. You think not having a woman in a video game is oppression? In Africa, girls have their vaginas mutilated by removing pieces of the labia forcibly. A girl in the middle east was shot for going to school. American feminism is petty and does not focus on real issues that affect women. Putting men down should have no place in a movement for equal rights. Your assumption that all men know nothing about feminism is rude and sexist. Men get death threats if they're so much as suspected of mistreating women. For example, a student of Columbia University was accused of rape by Emma Sulkowicz and she lugged a mattress around campus to emphasize this point. Even though the allegations were proven false, his life has still been ruined. Sexism against men is real was well and the American feminism movement is very sexist against men. I know what the "struggle" is, as many of my friends are trans and the majority of my friends are female and I help organize the Women's History month at my college. 

You don't have to send me that five dollars. Use it to buy yourself something nice.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> As Zuriak said, Kellie's views are representative of a significant chunk of the political left, who subscribe to a holier than-thou offended-by-everything philosophy, which is large enough to force Universities to dismiss their Professors, and which has an unfortunate hold in a lot of campus societies, including mine.
> 
> Your enjoyment of media you like will be spoiled, when the people at your university deride it as sexist, racist, and so forth, and start votes to get media they don't approve of banned on the campus grounds. My College recently banned certain songs because they believed it was possible that the lyrics would trigger rape survivors.
> Meanwhile the Feminist society, called Cuntry life, was busy discussing the deplorable truth that all classic books ever were written by racist bigots, or so it would seem if you read their material.
> ...



Just to point out something very specific : They said that it was possible, not definite. Thinking a bit further, students to a college/university are prestige and money(though, the primary purpose is to educate and continue it). To lose students because they think that it's an unhealthy atmosphere would be embarrassing and would generate less students. Before you know it, there will be no college. No organization. My only question to you about the papers you spoke of, were they well supported with evidence (or even theories well supported)? 

SJWs are not buzzkills or joykills: Just simply fighting for their beliefs of morality and equality, no matter how badly it might link up to your's.

I'll dismiss that part about the political left, as for all I know them for are simply 'radicals' and act accordingly to their label. If it's to assume that she's to be considered Left, the only thing that would even bring that conclusion is simply speaking up and banding. Besides, an "offended-by-everything" is important to the entire spectrum of people. Attacking them, you end up battling for the same thing you fought against.

-Edit-



Tao said:


> We don't need feminism, we need equality regardless of race, gender, whatever.



It's all part of the large, step-by-step plan. As each movement becomes successful, new ones form and will eventually form a balance. It's hard to believe that equality could just occur at the snap of a finger. So, as prohibition 2.0 starts (and will soon finish it's rounds) just note that it will be good for the rest of us. We can see that this movement still needs a bit of tweaking before it's given a passing grade.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 14, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

A lot of these new wave feminists rub me the wrong way. They're pretty transphobic, and basically call transwomen men who want to undermine or detract from female privledge. Google TERFs and prepare to be sick to your stomach.

I'm not an sjw. Not a feminist. Not a mra. I'm a humanist.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

"New wave" feminism is the one that will kill it
Its time to put the ol girl down 
shes no longer needed


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> It's really disheartening to see that black people have become the de facto mascots of the SJW movement.


Intersectionality is important. Political correctness was a union strategy because the bosses would bring in scabs of racially and ethnically marginalized workers, baiting the union strikers to use slurs. The call to be "politically correct" was not to cancel identity but to show how it is used by the bosses to divide the proletarians.




Tao said:


> It means exactly what it says. I can use smaller words if you need.


No, I don't think you should be using any words to criticize feminism because you've made it quite clear you haven't educated yourself on it at all. You know little of it's history and probably look towards famous anti-feminist gamer youtube channels for guidance on it. And your long winded response gives that Mao quote a lot of weight. 

learn 2 cultural criticism




RedSavage said:


> A lot of these new wave feminists rub me the wrong way. They're pretty transphobic, and basically call transwomen men who want to undermine or detract from female privledge. Google TERFs and prepare to be sick to your stomach.
> 
> I'm not an sjw. Not a feminist. Not a mra. I'm a humanist.



Yes but wouldn't a humanist also be a feminist ? An egalitarian looks for total equality for everyone, yet existing power structures like white supremacy and patriarchy keep certain groups marginalized. So wouldn't a true egalitarian or humanist work within the feminist scope to abolish these power structures to even the playing field ?


----------



## CrazyLee (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I take it you have proof of this as an official Gamergate stance rather than blatant and baseless mudslinging and ad hominem in an attempt to belittle and discredit the other side? It's mind boggling, really, that you take the position you do -- I'd really love to hear what you have to say and why you think they way you do about GG because it seems you are a bit misguided in what it actually is. I'm willing to open a dialogue.



Hell, if it works for the anti-feminist libertarian idiots, then it works for me, right?

But if you want me to be serious about it, of course, I'll be serious.

One of the things that pisses me the most off about this Gamergate thing is the fact that it has resorted to mudslinging, doxing, threats, and the like. So, you have a woman with a degree who's a feminist. She decides to study feminism and sexism as it relates to video games.

So what does the gaming community do? They flip their collective shits. They threaten them. They send them emails calling them sluts, whores, threatening to rape them, threatening to kill them. They post the people's personal info, which I think is a violation of privacy. People stalk them. One person goes so far as to threaten to shoot up and blow up a university in Utah. Now, I don't believe that threat was legit. However, it was a threat of a school shooting and the authorities had to take it seriously.

And why? Because they disagree with someone. So, rather than debate the feminists in neutral, unbiased way, using facts and logic, a large amount of gamers... trolls really... decide to act like piles of manure. To threaten people because they disagree with them.

Do such people think they are intellectual? Morally superior? Smarter than everyone else? Then why is it they feel so threatened by a differing viewpoint that they feel the need to threaten that person to silence them? If they really respected other viewpoints they would allow the feminists to speak their minds. It's okay to disagree with others. It's not okay to send death threats to someone you disagree with. And it just shows the mentality that many millennials have that everyone has to agree with them, probably thanks to the internet where it's easy to find like-minded people. Then they surround themselves with people who think like them so they feel safe and never challenge themselves to new ideas. Then if someone like Anita comes along and threatens their safe little fraternity of Gamers, they feel unsafe and they knee jerk and become troll assholes.

Edit:
Holy crap I noticed this thread is moving a lot faster than I realized. It's over 10 pages since I last posted. And by the time I collect my thoughts and check up on this thing again it will probably be 10 more pages. Eh.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



CrazyLee said:


> Hell, if it works for the anti-feminist libertarian idiots, then it works for me, right?
> 
> But if you want me to be serious about it, of course, I'll be serious.
> 
> ...


http://i.imgur.com/II5Lza4.jpg
^ Instead of "Racist", make it "Misogynist".

You should understand that Feminists aren't the only ones who have been threatened, doxxed and harassed. On top of that, the bulk of a movement has nothing to do with the actions of a few trolls or idiots; GamerGate has been the target of false flag operations as well. I think you're _intentionally_ lying when you wrote your post, there's simply no way you can look at the internet reaction to Anita and say that criticism levelled at her is, essentially, consisting of threats, mudslinging and the like. I can't even begin to wrap my head around the intentional and brash brushing aside of GamerGate's massed responses in order to frame it as some angry men on the interwebs.

You do realize Anita is NOT interested in a discussion? And do you realize she purposely lies and misrepresents in order to further her message? I'd be MORE than happy to provide example. As a Libertarian GamerGater, I'd be more than happy to show you that Anita is not worth defending. And I'm certainly not afraid of women in my videogames, it's a ridiculous notion to suggest otherwise. Well, except for the "I got tits give me free stuff!" in which I'm sure no one likes that.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> OH NOES SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT A GAME I LIKE BAWWWWWWW
> 
> Man up, guys.~



Look who's putting words in mouths now.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Everyone has a right to an opinion. 
As everyone has a right to say that your opinion is heavily biased to the point of being completely nonsensical and irrelevant to the creative work in question.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Quite honestly, it seems like both feminism and MRA have some very shitty people involved in them that tend to put me off both causes.


----------



## Blackberry Polecat (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> Quite honestly, it seems like both feminism and MRA have some very shitty people involved in them that tend to put me off both causes.



Just be a decent person. You don't have to take "sides" or use a label.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The fact that you can walk around topless at these "slut walks" shows that theres no patrarchy and rape culture


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I like how I've apparently become some liberal super villain who spoils people's fun just for criticizing video games. Grow a thicker skin, mates. ;3

EDIT:
I suppose I should mention that if people think I may be wrong about media and may have misinterpreted something and don't understand a work of art very well that's one thing, but c'mon now, I ain't evil. And banning/censoring things are bad, don't assume I'm for all that shit.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Gay men are oppressed but regular straight dudes? Nah. They can get married without opposition from the certain kind of right wing nut that seems to have flooded this forum since I was gone. 

There is a significant wage gap between men and women.

also guess who is usually the perpetrator of rape against men?

Men.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-gap/index_en.htm - EU information on the gender pay gap.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I feel I may need to mention that some said something about college campuses and I kind of couldn't care less what people bring to those campuses. Banning and/or censoring media is bad and has always been bad. Don't lump me in with those people, I merely talk about art because that's what I like to do and my suspense of disbelief makes it a bit hard for me to buy The Witcher but if a whites only game is what they wanna make then that's fine with me. But don't get upset if you're questioned for it.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Gay men are oppressed but regular straight dudes? Nah. They can get married without opposition from the certain kind of right wing nut that seems to have flooded this forum since I was gone.
> 
> There is a significant wage gap between men and women.
> 
> ...


http://i.imgur.com/wU3ALdY.jpg

There is no noticeable wage gap. Here's a neat pastebin for you, I'll assume the EU has similar figures.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Wage gap aka Female Tax doesn't exist

Work harder
get a better job
ask for raises 
stop settling for scraps
there you go theres the recipe for making as much money as your average dude
do not expect the world to hand shit to you because you have tits


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You think you can just waltz up to your boss and get a raise like that? Like it's so simple to just "get a job"? It would be even harder for women to do that because women are still viewed as weak and inferior. 

Also, the European Union and even Prime Minister David Cameron (a Conservative party leader) acknowledge there is a wage gap that needs to be tackled, so go back to r/mra


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I remember when this forum was more feminist and generally less conservative. I'd ask what happened to that but I know that they all got into relationships and didn't have time to argue against "men's rights" and "male oppression" because they were basically leading productive lives and fucking. XD 

Don't worry y'all, you'll get those cootie filled whores and fags one of these days and then the pussy will just be lining up to get to you. 

Til then keep fighting the good fight to save the masculinity of your forefathers ;v


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Just to point out something very specific : They said that it was possible, not definite. Thinking a bit further, students to a college/university are prestige and money(though, the primary purpose is to educate and continue it). To lose students because they think that it's an unhealthy atmosphere would be embarrassing and would generate less students. Before you know it, there will be no college. No organization. My only question to you about the papers you spoke of, were they well supported with evidence (or even theories well supported)?
> 
> SJWs are not buzzkills or joykills: Just simply fighting for their beliefs of morality and equality, no matter how badly it might link up to your's.
> 
> ...



The student union is run by students; their actions are motivated by their own ideals, rather than economic considerations about what prospective students will think of them. 
I'm not sure that the student union's decisions influence prospective students; I didn't even know the individual colleges at oxford had their own unions before I arrived. I, and I think most students, apply because they know they will get an excellent education, rather than because they believe they will be provided with a safe space where nobody is allowed to play songs like blurred lines. 

In some universities, like UC Santa Barbara the student union passed a resolution to force lecturers to put trigger warnings on their courses, if they contained potentially upsetting content, and to excuse students who wanted to skip those lectures. 

University should be about education, rather than political sensitivity. These are the sorts of people who get Tom and Jerry labeled with a 'racism' trigger warning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29427843

This is why sociologists like Frank Furedi say that trigger warnings are _'a form of narcissism, with the concerns not really being about the  content of a book or work of art but about individual students asserting  their own importance,'
_Psychologists and Psychiatrists complain that trigger warnings reinforce existing sensitives, and that exposure is the means to over come these, rather than avoidance. 

Social Justice Warriors are concerned about appearing more righteous than other people, not with whether their actions are helpful to people's education or even detrimental to psychiatric disorders.




Butters Shikkon said:


> I remember when this forum was more  feminist and generally less conservative. I'd ask what happened to that  but I know that they all got into relationships and didn't have time to  argue against "men's rights" and "male oppression" because they were  basically leading productive lives and fucking. XD
> 
> Don't worry y'all, you'll get those cootie filled whores and fags one of  these days and then the pussy will just be lining up to get to you.
> 
> Til then keep fighting the good fight to save the masculinity of your forefathers ;v



This forum is full of people who express views such as 'the penis isn't necessarily male, and pregnancy isn't necessarily female', as if this prospect would be unbearable for delicate and swooning transsexuals. 
Or who accuse doctors of being institutionally homophobic because they refuse blood donation from high risk groups, including men who have sex with men. 

It's a place where people's feelings are more important than facts and where suggesting that homosexuality isn't adaptive is comparable to suggesting a racial hierarchy. 

It's a place where, if you mention that, for equal merit, women have twice the likelihood of landing a university faculty job than their male counterparts, you're a 'men's rights activist', and users will actually argue that this gender disparity is acceptable because the sciences are under an obligation to compensate for historic patriarchy. 


This place is anything but conservative, but more importantly it's anything but rational. 

But if people challenge these ideas, well I guess they _must_ be evil conservatives who never get laid, right?



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Gay men are oppressed but regular  straight dudes? Nah. They can get married without opposition from the  certain kind of right wing nut that seems to have flooded this forum  since I was gone.
> 
> There is a significant wage gap between men and women.
> 
> ...




From the source you quoted:

_"Family responsibilities are not equally shared. As a result, women have  more frequent career breaks and often do not go back to a full time job.  As a result, women earn on average 16 % less per hour than men; and  even 31% less per year, given the higher proportion of female  part-timers."

_Women don't get paid less for the same work. They're more likely to work part time, or drop out of work entirely, in order to start families, in which women usually take a more prominent role than men. This isn't entirely an artifact of horrible oppressive men_,_ because there is a biological disparity, only women can breast feed and so forth. 

The decision to drop out of work to have children and care for them personally is taken on one's own volition; it is not an expression of sexism.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Social Justice Warriors are concerned about appearing more righteous than other people, not with whether their actions are helpful to people's education or even detrimental to psychiatric disorders.



I agree that a large proportion of self-identified SJWs do more harm than good to their own causes, and I really dislike the way they self-diagnose disabilities and use them as a badge of honor. I find it disgusting and insulting to people with actual disabilities. They do the trans community a lot of harm too because thanks to stupid made up identities and sexualities, nobody takes us seriously.

Not that I disagree with non-binary transgender individuals identities, quite the opposite in fact. I just have a problem with people who identify earnestly as lunarkin or what have you. Why does everyone have to be a special snowflake these days? What happened to just being yourself and being judged on the strength of your character?

But yeah, I think people focus too much on the minority extremes of feminism and try to generalise all feminists based on that. Having said that, there is a lot of radical MRA rhetoric being thrown about in this thread, which I like to think isn't sincere, and hypocritical really. Feminism is and has been really important for equality; just look at the British suffragists and suffragettes. They were tortured and killed, and they went through that so women could get the vote!

There is still work to do, mostly to do with employment equality, and in the third world.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> In some universities, like UC Santa Barbara the student union passed a resolution to force lecturers to put trigger warnings on their courses, if they contained potentially upsetting content, and to excuse students who wanted to skip those lectures.


On one hand I don't see the harm on this but on the other hand, as someone struggling with mental illnesses who can triggered by stuff I never felt that trigger warnings were all that helpful.

Maybe it's different for different people but the way I feel, there's always going to be something that triggers you when you least expect it, and it could be mundane things you see every day or whatever. I saw a documentary about catholic priests molesting kids and how the rape survivors would, for example, want to puke because they saw a car just like the one the priest who molested them had.

Personally I don't like controlling people so I don't try to demand people to put up TWs just to suit my needs. Seems a bit selfish.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Trans folk like me have it rough, fallow. The murder rate for transgender people is staggering, but I guess we must just be sensitive.

Take your transphobia somewhere else.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> I agree that a large proportion of self-identified SJWs do more harm than good to their own causes, and I really dislike the way they self-diagnose disabilities and use them as a badge of honor. I find it disgusting and insulting to people with actual disabilities. They do the trans community a lot of harm too because thanks to stupid made up identities and sexualities, nobody takes us seriously.  Not that I disagree with non-binary transgender individuals identities, quite the opposite in fact. I just have a problem with people who identify earnestly as lunarkin or what have you. Why does everyone have to be a special snowflake these days? What happened to just being yourself and being judged on the strength of your character?  But yeah, I think people focus too much on the minority extremes of feminism and try to generalise all feminists based on that. Having said that, there is a lot of radical MRA rhetoric being thrown about in this thread, which I like to think isn't sincere, and hypocritical really. Feminism is and has been really important for equality; just look at the British suffragists and suffragettes. They were tortured and killed, and they went through that so women could get the vote!  There is still work to do, mostly to do with employment equality, and in the third world.


  I empathise with this, because my sister is brain damaged. She is disabled. American teenagers who have diagnosed themselves with ADHD are not disabled. I know a woman on one forum, who claims precisely that, but I've had real life experiences of this 'disability is a badge of honour' mentality too. A student applied to be the representative for disabled students, and part of his argument for getting the job was 'I have depression, so I understand what it's like to be disabled,'.   The representative for the LGBT student campaign also personally told me that he didn't want me to be their next representative because 'too many' of their representatives had been gay men, and that he wanted someone bisexual to take the post.   It's depressing that, in defense of the feminist cause, people almost only list achievements in the early twentieth century, rather than contemporary acheivements. It rather implies that the narrative  'feminism once was an important egalitarian cause, but has now become a club of irrelevant narcissists,'  is actually true. :\


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Trans folk like me have it rough, fallow. The murder rate for transgender people is staggering, but I guess we must just be sensitive.  Take your transphobia somewhere else.


  Yep, there we go. Accusations of transphobia.    I said that claims like ' [human] Pregnancy isn't even inherently female', made because people thought they would make transsexuals feel better, are silly.   I don't think transsexuals are the delicate or swooning sort who are threatened by the possibility that human pregnancy is female any more than they're threatened by the prospect that breasts develop because of oestrogen.  I don't think that their happiness is contingent on everyone else believing garbage like 'physical sex is a social construct' [yes I've seen that claimed before too].   Apparently that's transphobic.



Kellie Gator said:


> On one hand I don't see the harm on this but on the other hand, as someone struggling with mental illnesses who can triggered by stuff I never felt that trigger warnings were all that helpful.
> 
> Maybe it's different for different people but the way I feel, there's always going to be something that triggers you when you least expect it, and it could be mundane things you see every day or whatever. I saw a documentary about catholic priests molesting kids and how the rape survivors would, for example, want to puke because they saw a car just like the one the priest who molested them had.
> 
> Personally I don't like controlling people so I don't try to demand people to put up TWs just to suit my needs. Seems a bit selfish.




Of course students skipping classes because they worry that they will be offended is harmful.  

It stunts their education, because it teaches them that it's okay to ignore topics that are uncomfortable or disturbing, however important they are.


----------



## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh yeah, you're so oppressed FF. Poor you.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> Oh yeah, you're so oppressed FF. Poor you.



Of course I'm not oppressed. 

And recognising that physical sex is biological, rather than a social construct, *doesn't oppress you*. 

People being nasty to transsexuals, like refusing to hire them, oppresses them. The concept that penises are a male sex organ doesn't oppress transsexuals, and people who claim that it does incorrectly assume that transsexuals are wilting ineffectual people threatened by any indication that physical sex exists. Of course they aren't threatened by that.


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## Daisy La Liebre (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I agree with everything you just said there, but it just sounds whiny when you complain about being called out on the shit you say about other groups of people.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Daisy La Liebre said:


> I agree with everything you just said there, but it just sounds whiny when you complain about being called out on the shit you say about other groups of people.



I'm showing Butters that this place isn't a hub of 'the evil conservatives'. If you don't tread on egg shells, people *will* accuse you of being a transphobe. 
I don't think our forum should be like that; I think it should be a place of free and open discussion, rather than politically motivated insults, where even factual statements are ignored if they compromise people's righteous ideas.

Imagine for a second that you don't really have any opinions about transsexuals at all, you're just not really interested, and you just turn up on a forum and are discussing sexual dimorphism or sex selection... and then some crazy turns up and derails the conversation to tell you that acknowledging that physical sex is biological oppresses _them _and that everyone should ignore you for being an evil transphobe. 

That kind of thing actually happens on this forum.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Of course students skipping classes because they worry that they will be offended is harmful.
> 
> It stunts their education, because it teaches them that it's okay to ignore topics that are uncomfortable or disturbing, however important they are.


Well, than that's their own loss. Maybe they'll have to learn you can't shield yourself from the world the hard way. I tried shielding myself off for two years and it didn't work so I hit a point where I knew it was time to change my strategy. Trigger warnings aren't exactly a societal hazard, though.


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## Naesaki (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I still remember a women who started to rave and scream at an automated billboard because it had an ad for a perfume, it just so happened to be the one that she wore on the night of something terrible happening to her and she began threatening to sue the advertising company which owns the billboards for openly displaying it to the public. 

No idea what happened with that, I just happened to be passing by and didn't really want to overhear more than I already did.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, than that's their own loss. Maybe they'll have to learn you can't shield yourself from the world the hard way. I tried shielding myself off for two years and it didn't work so I hit a point where I knew it was time to change my strategy. Trigger warnings aren't exactly a societal hazard, though.



It's the university's loss too, if students are discouraged from learning about unsavory topics, because that will mean there are less well-educated students to take up academic and research positions. It's important that Universities are an environment which encourage learning.


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## Lomberdia (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I still remember a women who started to rave and scream at an automated billboard because it had an ad for a perfume, it just so happened to be the one that she wore on the night of something terrible happening to her and she began threatening to sue the advertising company which owns the billboards for openly displaying it to the public.
> 
> No idea what happened with that, I just happened to be passing by and didn't really want to overhear more than I already did.


People will sue for everything and expect people to bend over backwards for their issues. As if anyone really cared, honestly. I think there is a saying "Half the people don't want to hear about your problems and the other half are glad you're having problems." Or something like that. I hope the woman didn't get anything and was laughed out of court. Suing over a non-offensive perfume billboard just because she got shellshock by looking at it. Get a shrink and move on with your life.

In short: we all have our personal demons/issues, don't wave yours around as if it's more important than anyone else's and demand ridiculous compensation just because people are too busy trying to fix their own issues to pay any attention to yours.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

God, the left-wingers on these forums make me want to cringe. I wonder why the fuck I still browse this forum.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> God, the left-wingers on these forums make me want to cringe. I wonder why the fuck I still browse this forum.


Might've been easier to take you seriously if not for that hilarious avatar. <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I agree w flag man

The lefters on this forum are the type of people who will cry if tou dont usr the rerms "vagina people" and "penis people" lmao
the oppression olympics jn here is EMBARRASSING


Soon as you line up in the race for oppression olympics im 10x  less likely to take you or your problems seriouslu lol



Loling at "sex is a social construct"
ive seen this too
If physical sex is a social construct then gosh i guess trans people have nothin to worry about
why do they even transition
why do they use certain pronouns
everything is imaginary and nothing is real
brain chemistry doesnt real
race is social construct and skull structures dont real


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## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I agree w flag man
> 
> The lefters on this forum are the type of people who will cry if tou dont usr the rerms "vagina people" and "penis people" lmao
> the oppression olympics jn here is EMBARRASSING
> ...


 lmao exactly.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This thread is basically little more than a circle jerk where discussion gets shot down at this point.


----------



## Taikugemu (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> God, the left-wingers on these forums make me want to cringe. I wonder why the fuck I still browse this forum.



 To whine and bitch on how left-wingers ruin everything, like you always do.


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## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Taikugemu said:


> To whine and bitch on how left-wingers ruin everything, like you always do.



ok but they do though


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Speaking of flags. :V


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## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Speaking of flags. :V



The Nazis have a flag, as do 'Big Gay', therefore they are a Reich of Gay Gestapos. 

Oh lordy. <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I already am a nazi and i am veyr surprised it took them this long to realize this


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> ok but they do though



i wouldnt say so. its the leftists on these forrums that do.

im a leftist. an atheist, a pro gay marriage liberal. i believe in universal healthcare. but hell if im going to play the victim card and whine like a cunt to get what i want.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This thread has been circular for the past ten or more pages. 


-Kellie holds that Witcher III could use racial diversity

-Clayton and co provide mountainous amounts of evidence pointing to the game being based of Polish and Slavic folklore, based in medieval times where no black man has set foot in any Polish or Slavic lands, and thus putting a "token black guy" character is completely against the creative grain of the game. 

-Kellies holds that, because _technically_ it isn't in a precise European location and _precise_ real-world date, that Witcher III could have made room for a black guy. 

-Clayton and co provide mountainous amounts of evidence, metaphors, and carefully constructed arguments to explain the inherent silliness of shoving a black character into a medieval setting, (again, slavic and polish inspired), and how shoving a white guy in an African-inspired tribal game would be considered just as illogical. 

-Kellie ignores this, starts LOLing and ';3'-ing at everyone, claiming them to be thinned skin and unable to handle critique, despite not actually addressing any of the arguments or providing any other logic for a token black character other than "because they can, and thus should". 

-Kellie states repeatedly that she is done. 

-Clayton and co discuss the concept of videogames and other creative works being harpooned by political correctness advocates without regards to their context (ie: RE5 being placed in africa, being anti-corporation, but being criticized for shooting black people). They discuss how games have been changed or removed from online sales completely despite no intentional intent to be racist or misogynistic. 

-Kellie rejoins the conversation and says they could have used some racial diversity anyways. 

-Clayton and co provide ample logic stating otherwise. 

-Kellie holds that it should be racially diverse simply because it can, like this solves all of our world's problems, and then blows raspberries at everyone and calls them dumb-dumbs and how they're just being mean towards opinions (that happen to have no creative logic of any kind that makes any kind of sense). 



Go back to point one. Repeat ad nauseam in slightly different forms. Throw in some character accusations. Some claims of putting words in so and so mouth. Link to any amount of videos or websites online that could literally be stacked to prove any point in the world as if they even meant a single damn thing.   ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam ad nauseam

Welcome to FAF.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> This thread has been circular for the past ten or more pages.
> 
> 
> -Kellie holds that Witcher III could use racial diversity
> ...



RED you win the internet. that's why i got off the ride like 15-20 pages ago. i got tired of arguing with an entitled child. who thinks gamergate is a hate group and modern feminism is the pinnacle of reason.


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## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> i wouldnt say so. its the leftists on these forrums that do.
> 
> im a leftist. an atheist, a pro gay marriage liberal. i believe in universal healthcare. but hell if im going to play the victim card and whine like a cunt to get what i want.



Most leftists on the internet that I've met have been liberals and I can't stand those.


edit: funniest thing is iw asnt even arguing with kellie because I can't see her posts
I was just talking about Witcher 3 w/ Fallow

But then again I'm just a big ole dumbass who doesn't know viddygames like Anita Sarkeesian & co do


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Here's what liberalism sounds like to me:

"Mom forced me to do my homework"

"Dad forced me to take out the trash"

"Parenting is a social construct"

"Fucking oppressive shitlords!"


These people are lazy and nihilistic as fuck, and hate anything that requires them to do something to get something in return.


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## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Here's what liberalism sounds like to me:
> 
> "Mom forced me to do my homework"
> 
> ...


then you would be focusing on a small minority of liberals. 
but anyways not what this thread is so done with that shit.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

My political views are more sympathetic with ideas that would be considered 'left', but daring to criticise pseudoscience in the left wing, for example pseudoscience about blood donation, often means that people accuse me of being a prejudiced right-winger.

...as if all ideas that are considered right wing are evil anyway.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

My attitude may have been less than great but I'm sorry, I'm still not convinced about that polish game. At least not yet. :/

Although one person did offer a good counterpoint, if only I can remember who. Was a few pages ago because we're all terrible.


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## Nikolinni (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> My political views are more sympathetic with ideas that would be considered 'left', but daring to criticise pseudoscience in the left wing, for example pseudoscience about blood donation, often means that people accuse me of being a prejudiced right-winger.
> 
> ...as if all ideas that are considered right wing are evil anyway.



Unfortunately that's how people are wired. They think "Left = Good Right = Evil" and vice versa. Whichever one you run into more varies by location and website. Heck even after I told my grandma I was Republican-Liberal she tried to convince me to either go Independent or Democrat. She dislikes Republicans THAT much. It doesn't matter who the person is kids, just their party! 

This is a major issue in politics.


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## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> My political views are more sympathetic with ideas that would be considered 'left', but daring to criticise pseudoscience in the left wing, for example pseudoscience about blood donation, often means that people accuse me of being a prejudiced right-winger.
> 
> ...as if all ideas that are considered right wing are evil anyway.



i honestly dont know what im considered. im just against bullshit (like christians trying to control people, homophobic stuff, people against science and reason, the shitty racist flag the hicks like so much) and im for good things like reducing the military, universal healthcare, lgbt rights etc. but i guess there are liberals on the internet that whine alot.



but back on topic kellie got owned like a jew in ancient egypt. keeps getting owned.  how much more logic are you going to fluff off?
but yeah id say its a win guys. as much a win as we can get. these new feminists like anita sarsleezian, and chanty binx must have a few missing brain cells.
its a hate group now. and it is slowly killing parts of gaming culture. it has to be spoken out against. we cant settle for professional victims like anita dictating what games should be like when the asshole doesn't  even play video games. and sadly these days the ones bitching for games to be more inclusive and go by the rederic the fems have chiseled out of intolerance, dont even play games. they might even hate games. why listen to the bullshit anymore?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's  not hard to learn more about videogames, it really isn't. There rae so  so so so sooo many Let's Play Youtubers that play so many games. I've  watched many games through this way, a few of them being (with my own  opinions in brackets, based on actually fucking seeing the games):
- Bioshock Infinite (This was a qual game)
- Red Dead Redemption (Zombie one as well, this is one of my fave games)
- Minecraft (Played this one on here with FAF members!!)
- Ark: Survival Evolved (Really love this one, wish my laptop could handle it)
- Witcher 3 (Love this one, too bad it doesn't have token black characters!!!!)
- Fallout 3 (and all of it's different versions. One of my all-time faves. Played this with my brother IRL)
 - Monster Hunter 3 (Those felynes are fuckin adorable omg)
- Half-Life 2 (Another one of my faves, though Ravenholm still scares me)
-  Farcry 3 (This game had multiple references/threats about male-on-male  rape that were upsetting for me, but despite this I would never demand  that nobody play it!!!)
- Assassins Creed (I can't remember right now  which one it was that I saw, and although I liked the game it got a  little boring for me. Might pick this one up again in the future and  watch the most recent game)
- L.A Noire (This one is one of my faves, the reactions are hilarious) http://i.imgur.com/j6Tpn9V.jpg
- Arma 3: Life (Please watch Lyrik's LP of this game, oh my god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4744DecGf8)
-  Day Z/Day Z Standalone (My favourite LPer for this is MrMoonshouse and  MrChow. Love this game but it's scary AF at night.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8PvlM_seWc&t=5m13s )
- Altis Life (MrMoon is my fave for this as well)
^These last three are roleplay games which makes them even funnier because you need to stay in character^
& many more

Theres  more games that I haven't seen before, that I watched through multiple  times on Youtube. If you only get your experiences/information from one  source (Anita Sarkeesian or any other vidyagame "critic"), you're going  to wind up with some biased shit.
I have just given better reviews than Anita in like 5 mins of typing


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> It's  not hard to learn more about videogames, it really isn't. There rae so  so so so sooo many Let's Play Youtubers that play so many games. I've  watched many games through this way, a few of them being (with my own  opinions in brackets, based on actually fucking seeing the games):
> - Bioshock Infinite (This was a qual game)
> - Red Dead Redemption (Zombie one as well, this is one of my fave games)
> - Minecraft (Played this one on here with FAF members!!)
> ...


ohh clay you just don't have your misogyny goggles on


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Speaking of misogyny, I'd like to watch a playthrough of Bayonetta to see if Anita's criticisms are valid.  I bet they aren't.

I'll watch a couple if I can find some good ones.

edit: 
OH YEAH! ANOTHER!
SJW got all up in arms about The Forest and how it portrayed "natives" as "cannibalistic savages"
The  enemies in The Forest aren't even human! They're fucking subterranian  aliens/mutants!!! This fact, of course, is not immediately apparent and actually  requires playing the game to figure out.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/new-monster/images/e/ea/Spider_mutant.jpg
http://static4.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1197/11970954/2487222-skulllight.jpg
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/686/2623668-6150573119-TheFo.jpg



Another game that I liked was The Stomping Land, but the developing team fell out. I'd have loved to play that on a good computer. It appears (to me at least) that TSL was sort-of taken over by Ark, but I can't be too sure on that. They're both pretty dang similar games.
The models in TSL were so gorgeous, it makes me sad.
Look at this sexy t rex

http://orig12.deviantart.net/8bdf/f..._stomping_land__02_by_swordlord3d-d7eyfbd.jpg


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> im a leftist. an atheist, a pro gay marriage liberal. i believe in universal healthcare.


 Congratulations, you're like 95% of the furry fandom.


----------



## Astrium (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> It's  not hard to learn more about videogames, it really isn't. There rae so  so so so sooo many Let's Play Youtubers that play so many games. I've  watched many games through this way, a few of them being (with my own  opinions in brackets, based on actually fucking seeing the games):
> - Bioshock Infinite (This was a qual game)
> - Red Dead Redemption (Zombie one as well, this is one of my fave games)
> *- Minecraft (Played this one on here with FAF members!!)*
> ...



We should set up an unofficial official FAF server.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> We should set up an unofficial official FAF server.



We had one!! It was rad AF
I don't know if there's still one.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

@Clay:

Ravenholm was terrifyingly fucking wack. Up until that point, it'd been a run-and-gun action game. 
Then Ravenholm. 
Fucking. 
Ravenholm. 
The fast zombies. Their screams. The poision headcrab shrieks. The darkness and use of fire. It was a huge break in pacing of the game and had you jumping in your seat. 

If you listen to their sounds reversed, you can hear the zombies screaming "god help, help me". Possibly meaning that, on some basic level, the human mind in there is aware of what happened to it. 
[yt]XhD-vd7PXY4[/yt]


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Man, Half-Life 2 Had such a great atmosphere. It's a shame the game didn't age very well because more folks should play it.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Here's what liberalism sounds like to me:
> 
> "Mom forced me to do my homework"
> 
> ...



While I agree liberalism is awful, you really should hop off that high horse. To be fair, you worship a piece of cloth.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> @Clay:
> 
> Ravenholm was terrifyingly fucking wack. Up until that point, it'd been a run-and-gun action game.
> Then Ravenholm.
> ...



It's actually canon, the humans inside headcrabs are still alive, the headcrab is just controlling their nervous system. Sometimes you'll hear them crying to themselves as well. (Fast HCZ loudly scream, poison HCZ just cry)
One scene from Ravenholm that fucks me up is the fast headcrab zombies being able to run and jump across buildings and climb up pipes.



Zuriak said:


> Man, Half-Life 2 Had such a great atmosphere. It's  a shame the game didn't age very well because more folks should play  it.


I think that at this point in time, if they were to release HL3, it had  better be able to hold up to the standards gamers have already set for  it lol.
People have been waiting a looong fucking time,


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://youtu.be/q995vH2X5Fk?t=1389

Next two or three minutes, this is Feminism in a nutshell in the first world.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Here's what liberalism sounds like to me:
> 
> "Mom forced me to do my homework"
> 
> ...



To be honest, conservatives aren't much better.

What ever happened to being a humble moderate?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> an atheist, pro gay marriage. i believe in universal healthcare.



I'm all of these but I sure as heck aint a liberal or a leftist

Been tellin yall for a long time that I'm a center but nobody wants to believe me


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> To be honest, conservatives aren't much better.
> 
> What ever happened to being a humble moderate?



Moderates are too busy being accused of being liberals by conservatives. 

And too busy being accused of being conservative by liberals. 

And too busy being accused of being too wishywashy by liberals and conservatives alike, because if it's one thing liberals and conservatives can agree on, it's fuck compromise in that name of creating something better, together.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> https://youtu.be/q995vH2X5Fk?t=1389
> 
> Next two or three minutes, this is Feminism in a nutshell in the first world.


yup hate group, nothing more.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I'm all of these but I sure as heck aint a liberal or a leftist
> 
> Been tellin yall for a long time that I'm a center but nobody wants to believe me


That's a neat looking site, where can I find it?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> Moderates are too busy being accused of being liberals by conservatives.
> 
> And too busy being accused of being conservative by liberals.
> 
> And too busy being accused of being too wishywashy by liberals and conservatives alike, because if it's one thing liberals and conservatives can agree on, it's fuck compromise in that name of creating something better, together.



Meanwhile we foreigners don't even fall on your contrived political spectrum. C:


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://www.wesleyan.edu/mlk/posters/suffrage.html

Yikes!!


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Meanwhile we foreigners don't even fall on your contrived political spectrum. C:



Replace liberal and conservative with your party of choice m8. 
I know you have them. 
Over there...
Somewhereabouts.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> While I agree liberalism is awful, you really should hop off that high horse. To be fair, you worship a piece of cloth.


 LOL! You really think I care so much about the confederate flag?


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> LOL! You really think I care so much about the confederate flag?



Yes.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I do
I wanted to buy one on ebay but i cant find one ):


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> https://youtu.be/q995vH2X5Fk?t=1389
> 
> Next two or three minutes, this is Feminism in a nutshell in the first world.



What is actually going on in this video? O___o That woman who was constantly yelling scum to that guy was making me feel sick, I mean that was just like how you can be such a cruel person to be that way cause the man wanted to simply listen to this other opinion.


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'll find one here and Texas and mail up to Volk when I get a chance. 
There's _got_ to be a few hanging around somewhere.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



RedSavage said:


> I'll find one here and Texas and mail up to Volk when I get a chance.
> There's _got_ to be a few hanging around somewhere.


dont steal one
buy and mail me please
ppllleeeaassee red


----------



## RedSavage (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'll look <3


----------



## Astrium (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Been tellin yall for a long time that I'm a center but nobody wants to believe me



And here I thought you were a top.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> And here I thought you were a top.



You can still be the _center_ of attention if you've got more than one bottom with you
lelelel


----------



## Astrium (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> You can still be the _center_ of attention if you've got more than one bottom with you
> lelelel



I thought that was building up towards a double penetration joke. I am disappoint.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Astrium said:


> I thought that was building up towards a double penetration joke. I am disappoint.



Why would I share a bottom when I could... not share


----------



## Astrium (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Why would I share a bottom when I could... not share



Sharing is caring, Volk. Sharing is caring.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Sharing is for wimpy wimp little baby bitch men
Real cowboys like myself take what we want, we dont share


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Alpha Omega sin make many good points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6brJwqjd4xc


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...l-could-have-enormous-fallout-for-free-speech


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...l-could-have-enormous-fallout-for-free-speech



yeah feminism needs to die. this is fucked up. these cunts get away with charging people for criticizing them and then playing victim and calling it harassment. im so done. there will be a time where just talking about this hate group wont be enough this needs to be dealt with. this fucking boils my blood. fuck im angry. FUUUUUCCCCKKK. O.0 i need a smoke.


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Why does it appear that everyone involved did something wrong in that case?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> Why does it appear that everyone involved did something wrong in that case?



What did the guy do that was wrong?


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> What did the guy do that was wrong?


Forgive me if I"m wrong, but if I read that right (skimmed it since I have very little time left to be on the internet  ) the guy made a game where you can punch Anita.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

first harper... now this. done.... glad im moving to tokyo to teach english in 2 years. im so done with this shit. no feminists in japan <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> Forgive me if I"m wrong, but if I read that right (skimmed it since I have very little time left to be on the internet  ) the guy made a game where you can punch Anita.



No he didn't, that was another guy.

Here's a basic summary

Two girls and a guy are talking over Twitter
The two girls (both feminists) are mad at an unrelated guy who made a punch-Anita game and want to "sic the internet" on him to ruin his life
The original guy was against this and said that doing this is just as bad as the dude's game, and started arguing with them
The girls, like most feminists do, immediately claim harassment and accuse him of sexually harassing them, saying that they "fear for their life" or whatever and are scared of him. When it was pointed out that they willingly talked with the dude and this had shown that they weren't scared of him, the feminists sarcastically _"snapped that she was sorry she wasnâ€™t â€œa perfect victimâ€ who behaved like a conventional victim."_


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

That's horrific and scary. Isn't the first time I've seen something like that happen though.

What I"m worried about is is that its very typical of society to lean in favor of the "victim" since to oppose the "victim" would make it appear that one is going against justice, which makes one look bad.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

this is the reason that Emma Sulcowicz has largely gotten away with her false rape claim


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> Alpha Omega sin make many good points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6brJwqjd4xc



This is why I don't get people who defend her criticism of video game violence, if she despised it as much as she claimed, she would not own bloody mortal combat 9, the fallout series, and so on and claim to enjoy them, and the next person who says "She can still enjoy the game and critique the violence." No you can't, it should not be this way, if you hate the violence as much as Anita claims, you would never own said violent games, so why should you get try to change them and ruin the fun for the people who genuinely enjoy this type of entertainment. 

I'm all for constructive criticism and free speech, its their opinion at the end of the day can't do much about it, though downright hateful and clownish criticism that Anita and John McIntosh spout really rubs me the wrong way, I seriously despise these two, I really do.

I'm not normally like towards anything on the net, but I enjoy my video games, but if there ever came a day were developers took those two clowns seriously and all other similar compatriots, then what would be the point in gaming any more? So I really do hope their relevance eventually dies down and they fade into obscurity, oh and Anita finally being proven to be the con artist she actually is would be quite amusing as well. 


(yes I'm well aware talking about them still keeps them relevant but I don't exactly go and challenge them on twitter, this is merely a bit of a vent on a furry forum, such hard hitting ground breaking stuff that will keep them so relevant, because they are so aware of this place)


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The thing is.. Anita DOESN'T play games. She has proven time and time again that she doesn't play games.
The whole reason why I bring up the fact that I don't play games (I've never played Witcher 3, for example) is to show that you do NOT have to play a game to educate yourself on it. Watch other people play it, watch multiple people play it (especially with games like Fallout, where outcomes vary a LOT depending on choices), read through the Wikis, Google shit you're curious about, etc.
Anita has done NONE of this, not ONE bit. She and Johnathan MacIntosh both criticise games (like the most recent Doom's difficulty settings being a sign of "toxic masculinity") without knowing anything about their history (Doom's difficulty settings have never changed).
If you want to sit around and bitch about no token black characters in Witcher 3, be my fucking guest but it takes 20 seconds to search up the Witcher wiki and educate your ass. Spend an hour or two reading through it like I have, look through the story and the history, read the timeline, etc. EDUCATE YOURSELF, OTHERS WILL NOT DO THE JOB FOR YOU.
If you get your information from people like Anita who do not play games and who don't even LIKE games, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Anita can take a picture with a stack of games, I don't give a shit. I can do the same damn thing with my brother's massive stacks of games but that doesn't mean I've ever actually played them myself.
Half her footage is yanked from actual players anyways.

The worst part is that Anita is being listened to by journalists and other people who don't know better (but should) because it's "in" to be overly PC, and to turn down a story about how there's no Token Black Magical Negro in Witcher 3 will get you labeled a fucking racist with these people. I mean for Christ sakes, feminists are attempting to get a dude charged with harassment because he *disagreed with them over Twitter*.

Edit: Hey  SJW
Home come yall didnt complain about the stereotypical IRish character in Red Dead Redemption?
The first time you meet him, he's being drowned and called a lazy, drunk, Irish bastard and a "mick". Throughout the entire game, he gives you the runaround and proves to be a weasely bastard
Despite hating Irish stereotypes (yay St PAtricks dayyyy), I still loved this game and would not try to ruin it for others. Why cant yall do the same?
Irish is one of my fave characters in the game
[yt]9fDxugB0Zdc[/yt]


How come there are no black dudes in RDR wild west??!?!?!?!? Wahhh


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 15, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

on top of that she has games that she would consider highly sexist. like catherine XD for a feminist she sure own a lot of sexy type games. its sad she owns them. that many sweet games not being played makes me sad.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Most arguments in this thread:
"People who disagree with me are stupid poopyheads."


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Most arguments in this thread:
> "People who disagree with me are stupid poopyheads."



That's FAF in a nutshell.


----------



## FrostHusky81 (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> That's FAF in a nutshell.



More like the world in a nutshell.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Most arguments in this thread:
> "People who disagree with me are stupid poopyheads."


http://i.imgur.com/790FwhE.jpg

To put it broadly, but more or less.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Acceptance is the first step to.........


----------



## Lomberdia (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Feminism...a movement that long lost it's purpose. Now its a weapon used by women with power complexes and used in jokes. Like:
"Feminism: Sexism for women"

"Optimism: Glass half full
Pessimist: Glass half empty
Feminism: Glass is being raped"

"How many feminist does it take to change a lightbulb? Don't be stupid! Feminism can't change anything!"

"Feminism: Because not all women can be beautiful"

"Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Teach a feminist to fish and she will accuse you of patronising her, claim she knew how to do it anyway and that even if she didn't, she could easily work it out without help from a man.[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]"

[/FONT]Plenty of jokes and stuff you can find with a simple google search.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> Feminism...a movement that long lost it's purpose. Now its a weapon used by women with power complexes and used in jokes. Like:
> "Feminism: Sexism for women"


Intersectional politics  isn't just theoretical, it is the lifeline upon which oppressed groups depend for the collective liberation. I keep seeing the same tired arguments and nothing to back them up. Feminism should be criticized but your criticism is far from constructive and displays your ignorance.




TheMetalVelocity said:


> LOL! You really think I care so much about the confederate flag?



"Lel! I'm only pretending"


----------



## Tao (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> Intersectional politics  isn't just theoretical, it is the lifeline upon which oppressed groups depend for the collective liberation. I keep seeing the same tired arguments and nothing to back them up. Feminism should be criticized but your criticism is far from constructive and displays your ignorance.
> 
> 
> "Lel! I'm only pretending"



You should criticize in ways that are constructive and don't bely your ignorance yet you respond to an argument with mockery?

Your criticism is far from constructive and displays your ignorance.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> "Lel! I'm only pretending"


 No, I'm just showing people that I don't support individuals who use a totalitarian government to censor other people right after they complain about not having any civil rights, and fuck Mitt Romney for supporting censorship.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Tao said:


> You should criticize in ways that are constructive and don't bely your ignorance yet you respond to an argument with mockery?
> 
> Your criticism is far from constructive and displays your ignorance.



That last line was directed towards something different poindexter


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I have acquired my russian flag in the mail today
I still havent found a confederate flag
I absolutely need one
it's fucking crucial that i have one, i demand someone to mail me it


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 16, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> "Optimism: Glass half full
> Pessimist: Glass half empty
> Feminism: Glass is being raped"



I want to laugh soooo bad.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Thread's dead, Jim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCeKar6fUR4

New video from Vee and hosted by Sargon. This is pretty scary.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

1000 year gulag for every single one of you


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

ohh the irony https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKI2JH8UEAAMzM6.jpg


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I want to be in the gulag
its my dream 
make me do hard labor


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I want to be in the gulag
> its my dream
> make me do hard labor


Your fetishes are getting very specific.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Your fetishes are getting very specific.



burn me with your cigar
send me to the cellar


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> burn me with your cigar
> send me to the cellar



cuban or swisha?
concrete or dirt?

BE MORE SPECIFIC!!!


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

why am i even getting a choice


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> why am i even getting a choice



fine its the wooden box you boy


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> fine its the wooden box you boy



put me in the sweatbox


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

not without your beatings.


----------



## Lomberdia (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

very kinky things in this thread. Sexy yelling harpies, sexy beatings, and locking people up. Sounds like a good time.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

lol apparently there is no sexism towards men. she is one evil bitch https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKKdGx9UYAACM_a.jpg


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://41.media.tumblr.com/7154850a42d88f9b004df57d8313d49a/tumblr_inline_nrmtg0T2A71t8m1wj_540.png
http://www.avoiceformen.com/allbull...rd-for-anita-sarkeesians-threatened-attacker/


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 17, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> https://41.media.tumblr.com/7154850a42d88f9b004df57d8313d49a/tumblr_inline_nrmtg0T2A71t8m1wj_540.png
> http://www.avoiceformen.com/allbull...rd-for-anita-sarkeesians-threatened-attacker/



oooh thats alot of money. i dont think anita will turn herself in tho.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> https://41.media.tumblr.com/7154850a42d88f9b004df57d8313d49a/tumblr_inline_nrmtg0T2A71t8m1wj_540.png
> http://www.avoiceformen.com/allbull...rd-for-anita-sarkeesians-threatened-attacker/


Apparently one of the harassers is a journalist from Brazil, though nothing can be done about it unless Anita herself presses charges. Can anyone say: "professional victim"?


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Apparently one of the harasses is a journalist from Brazil, though nothing can be done about it unless Anita herself presses charges. Can anyone say: "professional victim"?



why press charges against the person you hired to fake threats. i really think she was in on this. she blocks people before they even get a chance to debate or speak to her. why appear at a place where people may ask questions she cant bullshit an answer to.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol apparently there is no sexism towards men. she is one evil bitch https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKKdGx9UYAACM_a.jpg





Volkodav said:


> https://41.media.tumblr.com/7154850a42d88f9b004df57d8313d49a/tumblr_inline_nrmtg0T2A71t8m1wj_540.png



Its things like this as to why it baffles me when people defend her, she is such a clown that laughing at this just becoming painful and a chore.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Its things like this as to why it baffles me when people defend her, she is such a clown that laughing at this just becoming painful and a chore.


I do believe there's such a thing as meeting things halfway. Anita has been wrong on multiple occasions but the harassment and smear campaigns are indefensible.

But no, gamers want their precious super villain.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Everything is better with a super villain  :V


----------



## Sonlir (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> "Optimism: Glass half full
> Pessimist: Glass half empty
> Feminism: Glass is being raped"



Engineering: glass is twice as big as it needs to be.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I found something interesting, some dude(s) brought up Pillars of Eternity as a horrible case of SJW censorship and it turns out it really wasn't that bad or censorship at all and that the developer worked closely with the backer who put in the transphobic joke to change it. And the backer was fine with it.

So... that's another claim of censorship in games shot down. Now, "Pillars" is only one game but since people like to use that a lot as an example I felt it was necessary to post this nonetheless.


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I found something interesting, some dude(s) brought up Pillars of Eternity as a horrible case of SJW censorship and it turns out it really wasn't that bad or censorship at all and that the developer worked closely with the backer who put in the transphobic joke to change it. And the backer was fine with it.
> 
> So... that's another claim of censorship in games shot down. Now, "Pillars" is only one game but since people like to use that a lot as an example I felt it was necessary to post this nonetheless.



I don't think that that's a hugely fair assessment of the response though.
GGers didn't have this information, all they knew was that backlash had resulted in a joke with very ephemeral transgender (not even transphobic) connections to be removed from the game.
In that sense it very much would have been censorship, and the response fairly justified.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



GreenFuzzball said:


> I don't think that that's a hugely fair assessment of the response though.
> GGers didn't have this information, all they knew was that backlash had resulted in a joke with very ephemeral transgender (not even transphobic) connections to be removed from the game.
> In that sense it very much would have been censorship, and the response fairly justified.


That's the thing though, GGers are like most conspiracy theorists; they don't know how stuff works and tend to jump to conclusions and circulate rumors before even doing their homework.


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> That's the thing though, GGers are like most conspiracy theorists; they don't know how stuff works and tend to jump to conclusions and circulate rumors before even doing their homework.



But can't that be directly attributed to the fact that the movement is centred around a relatively large conspiracy that has been proven to be in at least some parts true?

There's a lot fact checking done between a story blowing up and counter actions being organised. In the case mentioned above the only actions taken were to spread the news of the situation and to contact the PoE devs directly, which resulted in the full story coming out. 
It's not like GG goes full nuclear at every little story. Sure it'll blow up and get spread around, but nothing happens until proof is provided. That's where the tagline trust but verify came from.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



GreenFuzzball said:


> It's not like GG goes full nuclear at every little story. Sure it'll blow up and get spread around, but nothing happens until proof is provided. That's where the tagline trust but verify came from.


Bitch, please. What started the whole shitstorm was an angry ex who claimed that some woman slept with a game journalist to get positive review except the journalist he was involved with never actually reviewed the damn game.

People say Anita did this or did that without providing proof. They said GTA V was "banned" without doing their homework, and... I dunno if I can go on. The list is endless.

GG is social media at it's worst, a bullshit rumor machine spreading like wildfire.

GG gives no fuck about proof.


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Bitch, please. What started the whole shitstorm was an angry ex who claimed that some woman slept with a game journalist to get positive review except the journalist he was involved with never actually reviewed the damn game.
> 
> People say Anita did this or did that without providing proof. They said GTA V was "banned" without doing their homework, and... I dunno if I can go on. The list is endless.
> 
> ...



There's no need for name calling, I'm treating you with appropriate respect and I expect the same in return.

Your first example doesn't make sense as pretty much every claim in that initial post led to a jusifiable outcome. The nepotism may not have been provable corrupt, but the collusion certainly was.
Just because the direct origins were not realistically "fair" doesn't mean you can write off the movement, especially when it wasn't even a movement until after the "gamers are dead" articles, which were published AFTER the initial backlash.

Secondarily, I find it odd that you're trying to defend Anita, as there has only been a handful of unverified incidents, which are vastly out numbered by the number of incidents that HAVE been verified. Your point seems to be that unless GG maintain a 100% accurate score, despite being a grassroots movement, it's worthless.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Kellie, you are only going to open the can of worms again, it all finally quiets down and then you rise to the challenge again :/


----------



## Troj (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I found something interesting, some dude(s) brought up Pillars of Eternity as a horrible case of SJW censorship and it turns out it really wasn't that bad or censorship at all and that the developer worked closely with the backer who put in the transphobic joke to change it. And the backer was fine with it.
> 
> So... that's another claim of censorship in games shot down. Now, "Pillars" is only one game but since people like to use that a lot as an example I felt it was necessary to post this nonetheless.



My sense is, by all means, people should be legally free to make transphobic jokes, racist jokes, ethnic jokes, misandrist jokes, misogynistic jokes, anti-furry jokes, and any other off-colour or crass jokes that they can dream up. Likewise, game developers should be free to create games with transphobic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, or misandrist content, if they so choose.

But, people also have the right to not purchase that game, to mock or criticize that game for its content, and even, to refuse to buy other games from the same company or producer until they change their tune.

It's really starting to anger me that certain people are willfully choosing to disregard the rather clear difference between silencing an artist or demanding that something be banned, and simply pointing out that something is gross, offensive, crass, or inappropriate.

It's also sad, pathetic, silly, and gross that the hill some geeks are willing to die on is whether or not a game allows them to murder hookers or beat up trans people--because obviously, the whole game is RUINED without that vital game mechanic. 

It's very telling that such people regularly get _much_ more upset about the "PC police" or SJWs on social media than they ever do about, say, trans people being murdered, or blacks being assaulted by the police, or actual politicians and religious leaders calling for gays to be stoned to death.

I even have chums and acquaintances who have the magical ability to turn any news item about actual people being marginalized or hurt into a personal sob story about how SJWs are ruining the world by policing everyone's behavior and language. "But enough about me, let's talk about ME!"

As irksome and annoying as she might be, Anita Sarkeesian is not some  Feminist Ayatollah who actually has the ability to directly bowdlerize  or ban games.

(It certainly doesn't help that militant SJWs do call for offensive things to be banned or censored outright, and do have a habit of bullying or dogpiling people or companies with whom they disagree.)


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> My sense is, by all means, people should be legally free to make transphobic jokes, racist jokes, ethnic jokes, misandrist jokes, misogynistic jokes, anti-furry jokes, and any other off-colour or crass jokes that they can dream up. Likewise, game developers should be free to create games with transphobic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, or misandrist content, if they so choose.
> 
> But, people also have the right to not purchase that game, to mock or criticize that game for its content, and even, to refuse to buy other games from the same company or producer until they change their tune.
> 
> ...



I agree with you to a large degree, but I think you're misconstruing the power AS has. As a youtuber with thousands of followers and the ability to raise literal hundreds of thousands of dollars in a matter of days, expecting her to be fair and unbiased in her content, as well as truthful and not pushing her agenda in what's meant to be an analysis is not unreasonable.

After all, her content is being made with the aim to be taught in schools and colleges. I personally would consider that a lot of power to be granted to someone so blantantly willing to lie or misconstrue evidence.

In the case of PoE, the "transphobic" joke wasn't transphobic, or even negative toward the character who could be construed as trangender. It mentions a character who's physically male, but apparently female and another character who's so obsessed with his own masculinity, that he kills himself after having sex with the other character unknowingly.
The joke is at the expense of the "transphobic" character, not the trans character.

I certainly agree that games would survive without being able to murder trans characters or otherwise target minorities (in the specific sense of being able to do so to a greater degree than non-minority characters). But the main reason people are defending these aspects is the 1984 arguement. If you let too many things be banned, just because they're distasteful, then there won't be anyone else left to help defend you when your quirks are seen as harassment.

Because I really don't think that furries are too much higher on the list, what with our bad public image.


----------



## Amethiste (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ms Sarkeesian IMHO has hear head so far up her own backside she can see herself.

She is making issues of Non-Issues and even things completely unrelated & overall making a general embarrassment of herself.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> My sense is, by all means, people should be legally free to make transphobic jokes, racist jokes, ethnic jokes, misandrist jokes, misogynistic jokes, anti-furry jokes, and any other off-colour or crass jokes that they can dream up. Likewise, game developers should be free to create games with transphobic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, or misandrist content, if they so choose.
> 
> But, people also have the right to not purchase that game, to mock or criticize that game for its content, and even, to refuse to buy other games from the same company or producer until they change their tune.
> 
> ...


Except the legal right was already there and PoE devs could've easily left the message in there but they chose, on their own free will, to listen, negotiate with the backer and change it.

Some SJWs do call for censorship and bans but I don't see it happening a lot, but to be fair I avoid most social media like the plague so I may not have the full picture here.



GreenFuzzball said:


> In the case of PoE, the "transphobic" joke wasn't transphobic, or even negative toward the character who could be construed as trangender. It mentions a character who's physically male, but apparently female and another character who's so obsessed with his own masculinity, that he kills himself after having sex with the other character unknowingly.
> The joke is at the expense of the "transphobic" character, not the trans character.


Ahem. Unless you are trans yourself then you don't get to decide what's transphobic and what isn't.

I mean, I'm not the type who gets offended but some trans people clearly were, so it's not really cool to decide for a minority what's offensive and what isn't. It's like a white guy telling a black guy that blackface isn't racist. :/


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Ahem. Unless you are trans yourself then you don't get to decide what's transphobic and what isn't.
> 
> I mean, I'm not the type who gets offended but some trans people clearly were, so it's not really cool to decide for a minority what's offensive and what isn't. It's like a white guy telling a black guy that blackface isn't racist. :/



I believe that if you're getting bent out of shape from something you know is not true, you're wasting your time.

If it is true, why go against it? To save face? That's pitiful.

I'll laugh with them 'till the day I die because I know damn well who I am.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> I believe that if you're getting bent out of shape from something you know is not true, you're wasting your time.
> 
> If it is true, why go against it? To save face? That's pitiful.
> 
> I'll laugh with them 'till the day I die because I know damn well who I am.


I may be sounding stupid here but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Just saying that non-trans people have no right to say what's transphobic and what isn't.


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Except the legal right was already there and PoE devs could've easily left the message in there but they chose, on their own free will, to listen, negotiate with the backer and change it.
> 
> Some SJWs do call for censorship and bans but I don't see it happening a lot, but to be fair I avoid most social media like the plague so I may not have the full picture here.
> 
> ...



Your arguement doesn't make 100% sense here.

Your basis is that minorities get to decide what's factually hate speech against them, based on what offends them. Those aren't the same thing. Being offensive isn't necessarrily hate speech.

Yes white people don't get to decide whether blackface is offensive or not, but they do get to determine whether or not something counts as blackface, because only one of those things is an opinion. The other is a determinable fact. For example, cosplaying as a shadow, may be offensive to some black people, but it's neither blackface, nor is it inherently offensive itself.

That's a rather big difference


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



GreenFuzzball said:


> Your arguement doesn't make 100% sense here.
> 
> Your basis is that minorities get to decide what's factually hate speech against them, based on what offends them. Those aren't the same thing. Being offensive isn't necessarrily hate speech.
> 
> ...


I dunno what in the hell you're going about, I wasn't talking about hate speech.

I don't mind the joke much but I get why it bothers my fellow trans people, it perpetuates the idea that transwomen are inherently disgusting and exist to trick men into sleeping with them and that sleeping with a trans woman is shameful. That's kinda transphobic.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I may be sounding stupid here but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Just saying that non-trans people have no right to say what's transphobic and what isn't.



Ok. I'm black, but that doesn't mean that _I_ believe something is racist because my neighbor believes it is. It changes from individual to individual. They create their own sense of what truth is, and it shifts in certain directions between communities.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

At the same time I think people read way too into jokes and satire and take it a step too far in order to make changes.


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno what in the hell you're going about, I wasn't talking about hate speech.
> 
> I don't mind the joke much but I get why it bothers my fellow trans people, it perpetuates the idea that transwomen are inherently disgusting and exist to trick men into sleeping with them and that sleeping with a trans woman is shameful. That's kinda transphobic.



Except the joke didn't refer to the other person as trans. This is the issue, it is non-canonical that the character being referenced is transgender, just that the guy thought they were. There's a larger number of reasons why this may have occured, and the character being trans is only one of these.

Further more, the joke was clearly written at the expense of the guy, showing him to be ridiculous and overall stupid, highlighting the exact opposite of what you've stated. The joke is based pretty much entirely on the idea that killing yourself because you accidentally slept with someone of a sex you are not attracted to is something only someone incredibly dumb and worthy of mockery would do.


----------



## Troj (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

As a prominent Youtuber, Anita Sarkeesian certainly does have social influence, yes, and I don't mean to sound like I'm discounting that. But, I think some people have a tendency to over-emphasize her power or influence in a way that makes them sound like basement-dwelling tinfoil-hatters--and ironically, it drives them to make fatal errors and miscalculations in their "war" against her. 

It's important not to use a bazooka on a fly, nor a flyswatter on Godzilla. 



			
				GreenFuzzball said:
			
		

> In the case of PoE, the "transphobic" joke wasn't transphobic, or even  negative toward the character who could be construed as trangender. It  mentions a character who's physically male, but apparently female and  another character who's so obsessed with his own masculinity, that he  kills himself after having sex with the other character unknowingly.
> The joke is at the expense of the "transphobic" character, not the trans character.



Ahhhh, thanks for clarifying.

I was mostly griping in reference to things that have been bugging me recently, so I'm sorry if I ended up using a bad example to prop up the rant I wanted to do . I don't currently know anything about PoE outside of what ya'll tell me.

There is definitely an additional problem of people often not grokking the difference between a joke that is at someone's expense, and a joke that employs stereotypes or highlights bigotry for the purpose of actually mocking bigots or critiquing stereotypes--and to be fair, sometimes the difference can be very subtle and subjective.

I'd also agree with KellieGator that outsiders are often (but not always) as well-equipped as insiders to "read" when a joke about a particular group is "OK" or not. (One of my growing pet peeves is when folks basically declare a joke to be Not Offensive because it doesn't offend or bother them _personally_, and because they don't have any real contact with anyone who might be bothered by it.)



			
				GreenFuzzball said:
			
		

> If you let too many things be banned, just because they're distasteful,  then there won't be anyone else left to help defend you when your quirks  are seen as harassment.



Right--hence why I'm such a die-hard advocate of the First Amendment et al.

But, I think it's totally fair for individuals to weigh the pros and cons of making a certain remark or joke, to determine whether it'll really be worth it, or will pay off the way they want it to.

It's also totally fair for individuals to say to one another, "Dude, not cool." When someone tells you that they simply disagree with or dislike something you've said, that's not the same as being censored or silenced, especially if you still have the freedom to tell them to bugger off.

What'd be really spiffy if our society could someday reach the point where most people simply don't see any point in making vindictive or mean-spirited quips at the expense of underdogs, because it's just not seen as funny anymore.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Ok. I'm black, but that doesn't mean that _I_ believe something is racist because my neighbor believes it is. It changes from individual to individual. They create their own sense of what truth is, and it shifts in certain directions between communities.


I suppose but a fair amount of trans people felt it was transphobic so I guess that while there's no objectivity here, plenty of people were offended, somewhat justifiably so, I argue. But people who aren't trans don't get to say "that's not transphobic".



Naesaki said:


> At the same time I think people read way too into jokes and satire and take it a step too far in order to make changes.


That's true and I'm willing to agree. "Offensive" jokes can be really funny. In the case of PoE it wasn't exactly classy and just grossed people out, though. So I think this PoE case was fair game.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Ahem. Unless you are trans yourself then you don't get to decide what's transphobic and what isn't.
> 
> I mean, I'm not the type who gets offended but some trans people clearly  were, so it's not really cool to decide for a minority what's offensive  and what isn't. It's like a white guy telling a black guy that  blackface isn't racist. :/



That's not how language and society work. Society, not just the minority, decides whether or not something is offensive.

The majority _does_ get to decide what is xenophobic, offensive, tasteless, rude, and so on. Even if the minority finds something to be wrong, the majority has to agree or their opinion is essentially pointless.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> That's not how language and society work. Society, not just the minority, decides whether or not something is offensive.
> 
> The majority _does_ get to decide what is xenophobic, offensive, tasteless, rude, and so on. Even if the minority finds something to be wrong, the majority has to agree or their opinion is essentially pointless.


So trans people felt it was hurtful, but it... wasn't?


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> So trans people felt it was hurtful, but it... wasn't?


You're malapropriating language now

Hurtful =/= Offensive =/= Phobic

You keep using all these words as if they're interchangeable, but they really aren't


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Ahem. Unless you are trans yourself then you don't get to decide what's transphobic and what isn't.
> 
> I mean, I'm not the type who gets offended but some trans people clearly were, so it's not really cool to decide for a minority what's offensive and what isn't. It's like a white guy telling a black guy that blackface isn't racist. :/



Being offended by something doesn't mean that other people are part of a campaign of prejudice against you.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> So trans people felt it was hurtful, but it... wasn't?



It was indeed hurtful to quite a few of them. I never said it wasn't. I never even used the word hurtful.

What I was talking about was your statement on somebody outside of the minority getting to decide whether or not it is offensive.

Most of the majority has to agree with the minority or the minority holds no power.

To use your blackface example, minstrel shows were considered acceptable in the 19th century by the white majority. Obviously the black minority found these offensive, but did they have any power to change that until the majority started to sympathize with them?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



GreenFuzzball said:


> You're malapropriating language now
> 
> Hurtful =/= Offensive =/= Phobic
> 
> You keep using all these words as if they're interchangeable, but they really aren't


I thought I was using synonyms and I apologize, blame English not being my native tongue on that. :S


----------



## GreenFuzzball (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I thought I was using synonyms and I apologize, blame English not being my native tongue on that. :S



That's okay then. The big difference is that while something might be hurtful to some people, it's not offensive unless there's strict reference to something (i.e. in the PoE case, the character is never actually referenced as trans, therefore while Trans people might be hurt by it, it's not strictly offensive). As for Phobic, something is only phobic if it directly refers to hatred or fear of something.

Referring back to the PoE case is a little sticky because the joke does refer to a phobic character (though his phobia is self reflective, not outward) but does not support the character and therefore isn't phobic itself.
Calling the joke transphobic is basically saying that no joke can in anyway refer to a negative interaction with a non-stereotypically gendered character.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I found something interesting, some dude(s) brought up Pillars of Eternity as a horrible case of SJW censorship and it turns out it really wasn't that bad or censorship at all and that the developer worked closely with the backer who put in the transphobic joke to change it. And the backer was fine with it.
> 
> So... that's another claim of censorship in games shot down. Now, "Pillars" is only one game but since people like to use that a lot as an example I felt it was necessary to post this nonetheless.


I brought it up, and if you found my post, you would know that I said, and I paraphrase, that I don't respect developers who change their content to appeal to outrage. I also said in the same post that I respected Warhorse Studios for standing by their principles in their upcoming game, _Kingdom Come: Deliverance_. But how is it transphobic? Are they AFRAID of trans people? Or was it a harmless and rather hilarious story about a man sleeping with what he thought was a woman -- and this is something that's not rare in the real world. And yes, calling for it to be taken down would be considered a form of censorship. I'm willing to bet actual money that 90% of the people who participated in this outrage were not gamers, and/or did not purchase the game anyway.

After all, remember when Anita pimped Swords and Sorcery? It has almost a zero percent increase in sales.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> But how is it transphobic? Are they AFRAID of trans people?



Just because it ends in phobia doesn't mean the people experiencing it are wetting themselves just thinking about it.

Transphobia is not a clinical diagnosis. Transphobia only has to be a negative attitude towards the trans community ranging from just disliking it to outright assault on trans individuals.

Many things can be totally transphobic even though most reasonable people, even trans people, would not give a shit about them.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I brought it up, and if you found my post, you would know that I said, and I paraphrase, that I don't respect developers who change their content to appeal to outrage. I also said in the same post that I respected Warhorse Studios for standing by their principles in their upcoming game, _Kingdom Come: Deliverance_. But how is it transphobic? Are they AFRAID of trans people? Or was it a harmless and rather hilarious story about a man sleeping with what he thought was a woman -- and this is something that's not rare in the real world. And yes, calling for it to be taken down would be considered a form of censorship. I'm willing to bet actual money that 90% of the people who participated in this outrage were not gamers, and/or did not purchase the game anyway.


I think I was referring to another poster, since I don't remember your post.

The joke was transphobic because it perpetuates a negative message about trans people based on a real life fear that many have that results in plenty trans people being stigmatized or downright murder. I wouldn't go so far as to state that jokes like the one in PoE is responsible for said murders but it's certainly distasteful and paints up this horror image of trans people.

Also, 90% or not, some trans people clearly did buy the game and complain and the PoE developer chose to listen to their customers. I know one trans person asked for a refund, which I think was a bit overkill but my point is that wether you like it or not, real gamers DID play a part in this case.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

so i know this is pages ago but heres the earnings for  the games. lol apparently their is a wage gap in sports. yup women get payed more. if you want to bitch then face the facts.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKNp3djUkAABM28.jpg


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> so i know this is pages ago but heres the earnings for  the games. lol apparently their is a wage gap in sports. yup women get payed more. if you want to bitch then face the facts.
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKNp3djUkAABM28.jpg


Male Modelling and male porn stars are in a similar category, but with astronomical pay differences.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> Just because it ends in phobia doesn't mean the people experiencing it are wetting themselves just thinking about it.
> 
> Transphobia is not a clinical diagnosis. Transphobia only has to be a negative attitude towards the trans community ranging from just disliking it to outright assault on trans individuals.
> 
> Many things can be totally transphobic even though most reasonable people, even trans people, would not give a shit about them.


That makes sense, though I personally don't agree with the sentiment that _Pillars of Eternity_ hosted a player-made addition that was harmful. The truth is, a joke is a joke and I doubt its creator had intentions to harm the trans community.

@Kellie: Some is not many.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Male Modelling and male porn stars are in a similar category, but with astronomical pay differences.



yeah same thing with male nurses. and not only that but male nurses get  groped by old ladys way more than female nurses get groped because they are less likely to report it.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Personally I don't find the joke about "oh no she has a dick, time to kill myself" offensive. The joke isn't just made at the expensive of trans women, it's also made at the expense of homosexuality.
A straight man having sex with someone who has a penis is seen as basically The Worst Thing Ever because being gay is super gross!!
and that's why I like to try to get with straight men, but that's a story for another time, children.

It doesn't bother me.
Is it a tired ass, old, worn out, dead joke? Yes
Do I want straight people or people who aren't gay to be able to say "maybe this is homophobic..?" Absolutely.
Homosexuals, transgender people, etc are not the only people who get to determine "hey maybe this is offensive", and I don't want them to be. I want straight people to be able to look out for thehomosexual community without being scared of stepping on toes.

When Chris Pratt having a sun tan is considered "brownface" or "blackface", I think we sure AF need some sane people on the "outside" to keep this shit in check.


As for an actual game scene, I don't know about this. I ahven't seen it and I won't comment on it until I see context.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> That makes sense, though I personally don't agree with the sentiment that _Pillars of Eternity_ hosted a player-made addition that was harmful. The truth is, a joke is a joke and I doubt its creator had intentions to harm the trans community.
> 
> @Kellie: Some is not many.


My point was that "true gamers" did ask the developer to change it. As in, paying customers. The customer is not always right but don't you think that it at least matters a little if customers raise concern?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I just googled 'Christ Pratt brownface'...I can't believe this. Surely someone made this up?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I just googled 'Christ Pratt brownface'...I can't believe this. Surely someone made this up?



If they were joking, they havent said so.
In fact, they elaborated
http://maliciastarling.tumblr.com/post/121513074092/chris-has-a-pretty-decent-tan-in-that-picture-how


This made me lmfao: "and the Othering of people of color. "


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> If they were joking, they havent said so.
> In fact, they elaborated
> http://maliciastarling.tumblr.com/post/121513074092/chris-has-a-pretty-decent-tan-in-that-picture-how
> 
> ...


omg are people that retarded?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> If they were joking, they havent said so.
> In fact, they elaborated
> http://maliciastarling.tumblr.com/post/121513074092/chris-has-a-pretty-decent-tan-in-that-picture-how
> 
> ...



._. 

White people going outside in the sunlight, now a form of racist patriarchal oppression. 

We should have been sent the memo that people of colour have the exclusive rights to melanin.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

We need to go back to the days when white people stayed indoors to maintain their porcelain, alabaster skin, and peasants, poor people, and "people of colour" worked outside and got tans
and the way we determined who to associate with was by how tan their skin is


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

That Chris Pratt thing... wtf. D:

These tumblr people clearly only see what they wanna see, it could just be a matter of lighting or makeup or... AUGH, STOP BEING IDIOTS TUMBLR PEOPLE.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> If they were joking, they havent said so.
> In fact, they elaborated
> http://maliciastarling.tumblr.com/post/121513074092/chris-has-a-pretty-decent-tan-in-that-picture-how
> 
> ...


There's also one about the Holocaust not mattering because white people were killed in it. Tumblr is a very, very stupid place.



Kellie Gator said:


> My point was that "true gamers" did ask the developer to change it. As in, paying customers. The customer is not always right but don't you think that it at least matters a little if customers raise concern?


Honestly, people get upset over a bunch of things. If you're complaining about an easter egg inside of a game, then you probably don't have much to complain about.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Honestly, people get upset over a bunch of things. If you're complaining about an easter egg inside of a game, then you probably don't have much to complain about.


Somehow I have a feeling we wouldn't be having this discussion if the game had a joke about black people being thieves or violent thugs.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Somehow I have a feeling we wouldn't be having this discussion if the game had a joke about black people being thieves or violent thugs.


Then you're implying you wouldn't take issue with it?


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

There aren't enough facepalms in the world to convey my dismay to that chris pratt tumblr thing, I know some of humanity can be stupid but that is just...wow....how, how, how, and how, also how, most importantly how can people be that stupid!? it baffles the mind!


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Then you're implying you wouldn't take issue with it?


I'm not sure where you got that from. My point is that we recognize racism when we see it in media but homophobia, transphobia and sexism often gets a free pass with people making excuses and saying "stop being offended" or "that's not transphobia/homophobia/sexism". Now, these things can be up for interpretation, my point is merely that it's kinda silly how anti-LGBTQ attitudes and sexism get ignored and trivialized but not racism.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm not sure where you got that from. My point is that we recognize racism when we see it in media but homophobia, transphobia and sexism often gets a free pass with people making excuses and saying "stop being offended" or "that's not transphobia/homophobia/sexism". Now, these things can be up for interpretation, my point is merely that it's kinda silly how anti-LGBTQ attitudes and sexism get ignored and trivialized but not racism.


You said we wouldn't be having a discussing about it, implying that it wouldn't be talked about to the severity of the event that occurred with _Pillars of Eternity_. So the implication would be that neither of us would care of comment on it -- or at least this is what I'm drawing from your comment.

I don't think the comment was anti-sex or gender -- and it's vastly different from stereotyping and flat out calling black people thugs.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Kellie was implying you would automatically agree with her if the subject were race, rather than transsexuals.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie was implying you would automatically agree with her if the subject were race, rather than transsexuals.


Ah I see.

Well, the case is different. If in the game they said some flat out offensive towards trans people I'd understand. But a silly story about a guy running off a cliff for sleeping with another man of whom he thought was a woman? It's far fetched from reality in the first world and shouldn't be taken seriously. You're free to disagree with me, but it's not overtly offensive.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Ah I see.
> 
> Well, the case is different. If in the game they said some flat out offensive towards trans people I'd understand. But a silly story about a guy running off a cliff for sleeping with another man of whom he thought was a woman? It's far fetched from reality in the first world and shouldn't be taken seriously. You're free to disagree with me, but it's not overtly offensive.


actually i could imagine for a straight man that could be very traumatic.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> actually i could imagine for a straight man that could be very traumatic.



Only transphobes would be traumatised by unwanted sex with transsexuals. :V


----------



## Troj (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I can certainly see how the scenario described could offend or hurt trans folks, as you could interpret it as implying that trans people are SO GROSS EWW that killing yourself (or worse, them) in response to them "tricking" or "fooling" you is a totally sane, reasonable, normal response.

If you don't see why that joke or schtick could potentially be hurtful to someone, just insert a member of your own group in place of the trans character. 

I think you also have to appreciate how all of these sorts of jokes swell together to create a kind of overall schema, where the underlying message is that trans people are gross, freakish, _and_ sneaky, and that you're tainted with their cooties if one "tricks" you into fucking them. 

I don't see much use in arguing over whether something is capital-O "Offensive" or not, because that implies that there's some global objective standard of offensiveness.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I like how GTA is filled with blacks and gangs



Fallowfox said:


> Only transphobes would be traumatised by unwanted sex with transsexuals. :V


I would be mad and I would call off the fucking if my boyfriend pulled down his pants and he had a vagina
That doesn't make me a transphobe.


People use the term "transphobe" too liberally.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I like how GTA is filled with blacks and gangs
> 
> 
> I would be mad and I would call off the fucking if my boyfriend pulled down his pants and he had a vagina
> ...


vaginaphobe :V


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I am a vaginaphobe, yup


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I am a vaginaphobe, yup


http://i.imgur.com/mpZOyLh.jpg

How DARE you have personal preferences!


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

all gay people are vaginaphobes :V if your straight you should still give the men a chance or your a sexist :V


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I really, really hate when straight men are called homophobic for not wanting to have sex with men


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I really, really hate when straight men are called homophobic for not wanting to have sex with men



lololol it happens. i cant believe people are that fucking stupid but yes it happens. lol  you ever hear a chick say its a shame that a gay couple aren't straight because its a waste? wtf lol


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

(edit: sorry double post) lol she didn't even turn on the controller before pretending to play. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKOkojeWoAA6Dnt.jpg


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I like how GTA is filled with blacks and gangs



Pretty much on par with the Bloods and Crips; the Vagos are supposed to be Latin Kings, which ironically allow anyone in. 

At least Rockstar showed their criticism on a variety of people, not just one particular race, group or position.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 18, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I love me some Trevor


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I love me some Trevor



The tricks that he does are ever so clever.


----------



## Taikugemu (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Soundtrack for this thread.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://twitter.com/whenindoubtdo/status/622519566686625792


----------



## Ocelot8 (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Feminazis are annoying. Pity that sometimes they leave tumbr. It's probably best to show others how wrong they are them go back to ignoring them.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

lol i think all feminist should go live in pakistan. http://img2.owned.com/media/images/2/9/5/9/29599/muslim_woman_vs_tumblr_feminist_540.jpg


----------



## FrostHusky81 (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol i think all feminist should go live in pakistan. http://img2.owned.com/media/images/2/9/5/9/29599/muslim_woman_vs_tumblr_feminist_540.jpg



Damn, that's harsh.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://youtu.be/1OnWv0F8y6o?t=25

New Sargon videeoooooo!


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

What is this, a "let's go give Sargon a rim job" thread?

I dunno how some fucker ranting for hours with a british accent is worth watching.

EDIT:
Apparently Sargon interviewed a Swedish YouTuber hosting a show called "En arg blatte talar".

"Blatte" IS SWEDISH FOR NIGGER (ALONG WITH "NEGER"). HOW DO YOU TAKE SARGON DUDE SERIOUSLY?


----------



## Ieono (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> What is this, a "let's go give Sargon a rim job" thread?
> 
> I dunno how some fucker ranting for hours with a british accent is worth watching.



The video was actually quite informative, and was done by someone else.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ieono said:


> The video was actually quite informative, and was done by someone else.


Doesn't change the fact that people are giving rim jobs to a guy who interviews people who freely use the Swedish word for nigger.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno how some fucker ranting for hours with a british accent is worth watching.
> 
> EDIT:
> Apparently Sargon interviewed a Swedish YouTuber hosting a show called "En arg blatte talar".
> ...



Sargon seems to offer commentary, so I guess radio listeners would find it appealing?

I haven't gone deep into his channel, but the name "En arg blatte talar" seems to be a commentary on the racism he perceives coming from the immigrants in Sweden, with him being an immigrant to Sweden himself. He seems to dislike the extreme-left nature of Sweden, as he sees it. 

I only listened to the first twenty minutes of the interview, but it didn't seem too extreme to start off. Seem to be people generally dissatisfied with the way the world works.

I have no idea, but if it is any consolation, I hadn't heard of either of these channels before the past two hours. If you dislike them, not everyone is listening.


----------



## Ieono (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Doesn't change the fact that people are giving rim jobs to a guy who interviews people who freely use the Swedish word for nigger.



From what I can tell, this Argon guy believes in personal liberties such as freedom of speech. If a person is not using that word as a form of hate speech, then what is the problem? In fact, it seems that the person you mentioned is using that term as a means of satire, to draw attention to his plight.

It would be like if I said "But I'm just a stupid nigger, right?" as a way to draw attention to the fact that many people disregard what I say simply because I am black.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> HOW DO YOU TAKE SARGON DUDE SERIOUSLY?



Because Angry Foreigner's sentiments are religiously echoed by a teeming cohort of your more "nationalistic" ethnic kin. Their numbers, while still minute, are growing steadily. 

The liberal stupor that paralyzes your nation isn't going to persist for much longer, Kellie. The Muslims that you so graciously vindicate have unknowingly inserted themselves into the proverbial lion's den.

_Mark my words: you fucks are going to crack.
_
You can practically _taste_ the revolt and the battle cry!

*"WE WERE VIKINGS ONCE DAMMIT! ETHNO-NATIONALISM GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."*

All Sweden needs is a bad enough economic recession to get the hate train surging.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Doesn't change the fact that people are giving rim jobs to a guy who interviews people who freely use the Swedish word for nigger.



You are ludicrous. 

Is anybody here accusing you of performing cunnilingus on Anita Sarkeesian for defending some of her points of view, even after you saw that she had...shock horror...made a post on twitter claiming that there was evidence that racial segregation improves school attainment?

No, because everyone realises how puerile and silly that would be, and that a distortion of a twitter post wouldn't automatically mean everything she has to say is bunkum. 

But this is precisely the standard you insist that everybody else is held to.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ieono said:


> From what I can tell, this Argon guy believes in personal liberties such as freedom of speech.


He's probably the kind of person who thinks reddit should keep r/coontown.



Fallowfox said:


> You are ludicrous.
> 
> Is anybody here accusing you of performing cunnilingus on Anita Sarkeesian for defending some of her points of view, even after you saw that she had...shock horror...made a post on twitter claiming that there was evidence that racial segregation improves school attainment?
> 
> ...


I may not have been clear but I have been critical of some of the things Anita say, I don't see people doing that with Sargon.

I confess I generally like Anita's work 'cause I like analyzing art but there are limits and I'm not always onboard with her. Sometimes I feel Anita and Jonathan McIntosh miss some basic fundamentals of storytelling that pretty much every story needs to create conflict and interest, to draw in an audience.

But I can also say I sure as hell don't like all the venom and slander thrown at her and how a bunch of sheltered gaming kids are attacking her with the purpose of dumbing down games, to reduce them to wear gameplay mechanics, coding, graphics or whatever. I feel that's a big disservice to video games as a whole.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Making puerile sexual innuendos and dismissing people merely because they once _spoke with someone who had said a rude word _is ridiculous.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Making puerile sexual innuendos and dismissing people merely because they once _spoke with someone who had said a rude word _is ridiculous.


I guess it is. I'm harsh and not ashamed of it.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I guess it is. I'm harsh and not ashamed of it.



I don't care whether you're harsh. I care that you're unreasonable, because it's silly to assume that all of someoen's views are wrong, because they once spoke with someone who used the word 'nigger'. 

You are speaking with me, and I just said nigger, so I suppose this means that all of your opinions are wrong.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I don't care whether you're harsh. I care that you're unreasonable, because it's silly to assume that all of someoen's views are wrong, because they once spoke with someone who used the word 'nigger'.
> 
> You are speaking with me, and I just said nigger, so I suppose this means that all of your opinions are wrong.


You may be oversimplifying things a little. I've seen other Sargon videos, or at least tried to because he's a bore. But the whole "blatte" thing was kind of the last nail in the coffin for me.

I hear some say the use of the word "blatte" is satirical but what the hell does it satirize in this case? Because satire criticizes and mocks it's target. I dunno who the target is.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> You may be oversimplifying things a little. I've seen other Sargon videos, or at least tried to because he's a bore. But the whole "blatte" thing was kind of the last nail in the coffin for me.
> 
> I hear some say the use of the word "blatte" is satirical but what the hell does it satirize in this case? Because satire criticizes and mocks it's target. I dunno who the target is.



Man uses rude word that Kellie doesn't like. Another Man has spoken to him at least once. 

Therefore everything the latter man says is wrong, and anybody who agrees with anything he says just wants to perform annilingus on him. 


#KellieLogic


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Thanks for not reading my posts. <3


----------



## Sylox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This thread reeks of failure. 

#shutitdown


----------



## Troj (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Context matters.

If Keith Olbermann interviewed Alex Jones and neglected to mention or suggest in some capacity that Alex Jones is a fucking nutjob, I'd be worried that Olbermann agreed with Alex Jones and was trying to endorse his world view. 

But, if he made it clear that he was interviewing Jones with the knowledge that he's a controversial figure who is also completely loopy, I'd assume that the purpose of the interview was shed light on Jones' worldview for our edification (translation: for ratings), and not to endorse that worldview nor sneak it past us.

So, I see a difference between someone interviewing "white supremacist Tom Metzger," and a person interviewing "my good buddy, Tom Metzger."

The same goes for someone who is interviewing a person who uses slurs and the like.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Thanks for not reading my posts. <3



I did; they're asinine. ._. 

I also read the articles you've posted throughout this thread, a courtesy that has rarely been reciprocated; you've mostly just asserted that anybody who's even willing to consider dissenting opinions is prejudiced, wants to perform rimjobs and so forth.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> Because Angry Foreigner's sentiments are religiously echoed by a teeming cohort of your more "nationalistic" ethnic kin. Their numbers, while still minute, are growing steadily.
> 
> The liberal stupor that paralyzes your nation isn't going to persist for much longer, Kellie. The Muslims that you so graciously vindicate have unknowingly inserted themselves into the proverbial lion's den.
> 
> ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfHAiIq-Yeo

edit: found a not-racist one
but it doesnt have the cool white culture stuff ):


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Sylox said:


> This thread reeks of failure.
> 
> #shutitdown


actually we are having a discussion, while some feminist throws slanderous bullshit and people like you come in who don't like the topic and think you have a say in its existence. 
really the homophobic/ racist/ prejudice threads you have made need the #shutitdown. your opinion on the matter has far past expired its validity. leave us to our discussion.


----------



## Sylox (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> actually we are having a discussion, while some feminist throws slanderous bullshit and people like you come in who don't like the topic and think you have a say in its existence.
> really the homophobic/ racist/ prejudice threads you have made need the #shutitdown. your opinion on the matter has far past expired its validity. leave us to our discussion.



Your hatred of me is so cute as is your warped view of what this thread has devolved into.

#UMADBRO


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So wait? Who's eating butt now? 

Dafuq is this sh*t?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

dat righteous indignation when people say this thread's dumb... <3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> So wait? Who's eating butt now?
> 
> Dafuq is this sh*t?



Nobody eats ass on my watch
It's strictly forbidden


In other news
Feminists are keepin it classy and are getting upset over things that they should be getting upset over, like statues
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/f...atue-of-man-and-woman-talking/article/2565164



Edit:
Feminist bootlicker journalist site Gawker is also keeping it classy by doxing a completely random guy for absolutely no reason
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAc...ker_fucks_over_some_random_guy_by_publishing/


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Nobody eats ass on my watch
> It's strictly forbidden
> 
> 
> ...


uhhg -.- this is why you cant do stand up comedy at a campus anymore without the crazy self entitled professional victims screaming mansplainin and mersogerny!!!


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Don't clap, either. You might trigger a feminist and her dog and send them fleeing into the safe room of the college.

I really hope I'm not the only one who got that reference.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Don't clap, either. You might trigger a feminist and her dog and send them fleeing into the safe room of the college.
> 
> I really hope I'm not the only one who got that reference.


Ah jeez not this again. I don't even want to know HOW they get "Triggered" by clapping. Angermode.exe.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Don't clap, either. You might trigger a feminist and her dog and send them fleeing into the safe room of the college.
> 
> I really hope I'm not the only one who got that reference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR2nh_XmfkA


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Don't clap, either. You might trigger a feminist and her dog and send them fleeing into the safe room of the college.
> 
> I really hope I'm not the only one who got that reference.



Jazz hands will become the norm for applaus


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Jazz hands will become the norm for applaus


ohh no...... dont let this happen


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ohh no...... dont let this happen



It's already happened somewhere but I'm too lazy to find the source


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Ah jeez not this again. I don't even want to know HOW they get "Triggered" by clapping. Angermode.exe.



I want to know how a dog got triggered. :/


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> I want to know how a dog got triggered. :/



feminist dog. tired of being oppressed by the catriarchy


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> feminist dog. tired of being oppressed by the catriarchy


http://i.imgur.com/1vB9D9o.jpg


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 19, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/1vB9D9o.jpg



fuck i love that picture XD


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Taikugemu said:


> Soundtrack for this thread.


I actually really love Big Red as a character. I wish she had her own show. :3


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Jazz hands will become the norm for applaus



Just a friendly reminder that jazz was invented by PoC and it is literally inappropriate for white people to appropriate their culture.    (â—¡â€¿â—¡âœ¿)

(I feel real dirty after writing that)


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Just a friendly reminder that jazz was invented by PoC and it is literally inappropriate for white people to appropriate their culture.    (â—¡â€¿â—¡âœ¿)
> 
> (I feel real dirty after writing that)


Wasn't there some buzz about a celebrity's haircut? I'm not sure what the full story is but I heard some talks about that and without context it sounds really weird. But maybe it's weird in context, too. :V


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Just a friendly reminder that jazz was invented by PoC and it is literally inappropriate for white people to appropriate their culture.    (â—¡â€¿â—¡âœ¿)
> 
> (I feel real dirty after writing that)



Uwu
uwu uwu uwu uwu


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So this "gaming journalist" is calling Super Mario Maker racist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB1E04hJgys


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> So this "gaming journalist" is calling Super Mario Maker racist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB1E04hJgys



hahaha yeah i heard about that
boo hoo, the hand isn't huge and black or missing 3 fingers
what a surprise, a japanese viddygame maker uses japanese models


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> hahaha yeah i heard about that
> boo hoo, the hand isn't huge and black or missing 3 fingers
> what a surprise, a japanese viddygame maker uses japanese models


ikr who gives a shit about a hand honestly id prefer it not have a hand at all.  but of coarse the SJW's scum that don't have any real issues of their own will argue for the other races because the white man be oppressin everythang.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Its also ironic in the fact the journalist hasn't even took into account what country and company the game is made by, it stands to reason the hand model will be of a japanese hand, I'm waiting for someone to defend this guy and say, "But think of the multicultural diversity, they have no excuse not to include hands of all races!"


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

quick
someone, fly a black dude into japan so we can use his hand in our game!


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> quick
> someone, fly a black dude into japan so we can use his hand in our game!



nonono that would be sexist and transphobic. they need a black trans woman hand. get your priorities straight jeesh


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This SJW shit gets better and better.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> This SJW shit gets better and better.



try tumblr bring popcorn


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 20, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Good ole Jessica Valenti
A true feminist icon.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e8fcbeab3e3658e7819bea89b712a23d/tumblr_nrsorbaHDI1tvyliqo1_1280.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bt0kdE8CIAIoXFy.png:large

Feminists will never be happy, and it's stupid to want to help them.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

know whats funny. if you look closely the controller isn't turned on. don't believe me? ill find you a close up and a screen shot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW-69xXD734


----------



## Troj (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Huh, whodathunk that a country that has never apologized for torturing and brutalizing both the Chinese and the Koreans might have some racist baggage? You don't say!


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> Huh, whodathunk that a country that has never apologized for torturing and brutalizing both the Chinese and the Koreans might have some racist baggage? You don't say!


your post makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic or even a recent post i think your in the wrong thread.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> Huh, whodathunk that a country that has never apologized for torturing and brutalizing both the Chinese and the Koreans might have some racist baggage? You don't say!


STOP PUTTING POLITICS IN GAMING!!! >:[


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> your post makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic or even a recent post i think your in the wrong thread.



Unless she's actually talking about that animated hand having light coloured skin...I have no idea?


----------



## Troj (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'm being snarky about Japanese-made games being racist, xenophobic, ethnocentric, or what have you.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> I'm being snarky about Japanese-made games being racist, xenophobic, ethnocentric, or what have you.



My twin showed me that some of the tamagotchi final forms had racial slurs for their names, so I can well believe that.


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> My twin showed me that some of the tamagotchi final forms had racial slurs for their names, so I can well believe that.



Doesn't help a lot of the words they use simply because it sounds really exotic to them without taking into the account the meaning, though not so much these days but it did happen.


----------



## Troj (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Oh, yeah. The casual racism of both the Chinese and the Japanese would absolutely knock your socks off. 

I'd be more surprised to hear that some original release from Nintendo or Capcom _wasn't _racist or sexist.

Part of it is that Japan is pretty racially homogenous, so they both tend to think about blacks and Latinos the way we think about unicorns. (Ditto China.)

This is not to excuse or overlook the times when American gaming companies have royally screwed the pooch here, of course.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

i demand to see racist tamagotchis right now


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> i demand to see racist tamagotchis right now



id buy one for shiggles


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> i demand to see racist tamagotchis right now



http://tamagotchi.wikia.com/wiki/Bill

_The original Japanese name was Ketotchi, where Keto was a derogatory word for Westerners. The name was later changed to Gaijintchi, which means "foreigner" or "outsider"
_


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

heres the latest on fighting the good fight against SJW's. game developers need t stand up to anita like these guys stood up to the bullshit spat at them. http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...stry-says-no-more-to-social-justice-warriors/


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> http://tamagotchi.wikia.com/wiki/Bill
> 
> _The original Japanese name was Ketotchi, where Keto was a derogatory word for Westerners. The name was later changed to Gaijintchi, which means "foreigner" or "outsider"
> _


Oh im kinda sad
i was hoping it was something id find offensive lol


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 21, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> heres the latest on fighting the good fight against SJW's. game developers need t stand up to anita like these guys stood up to the bullshit spat at them. http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...stry-says-no-more-to-social-justice-warriors/


I just got a justice boner from this.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I just got a justice boner from this.


XD really tho more devs need to say no to these entitled 1st world children. they whine about everything but most of them dont know what its like to live a shit life.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qYQP1uSFWw

Another Sargon video focusing on how badly SJWs harass others and then claim they don't.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> http://tamagotchi.wikia.com/wiki/Bill
> 
> _The original Japanese name was Ketotchi, where Keto was a derogatory word for Westerners. The name was later changed to Gaijintchi, which means "foreigner" or "outsider"
> _



It's a stereotypical caricature, but I don't find it offensive. I'd like to see what happens if they do one called Kurombo, though.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> It's a stereotypical caricature, but I don't find it offensive. I'd like to see what happens if they do one called *Kurombo*, though.



A Japanese version of Colombo?


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> A Japanese version of Colombo?



nah, its the japanese word for nigger

another word is koku-jin (sp?) which means just black man. haku-jin is white man, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't even watch anime


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qYQP1uSFWw
> 
> Another Sargon video focusing on how badly SJWs harass others and then claim they don't.


The amount of ass-kissing you give Sargon in this thread is amazing.

Too bad he ain't gay.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The amount of ass-kissing you give Sargon in this thread is amazing.
> 
> Too bad he ain't gay.



Homophobe. :V


----------



## Troj (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I enjoy Sargon. He's certainly several steps up from most of the prominent anti-SJW bloggers and Youtubers, because he doesn't immediately come across as just a closet bigot.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> I enjoy Sargon. He's certainly several steps up from most of the prominent anti-SJW bloggers and Youtubers, because he doesn't immediately come across as just a closet bigot.


I dunno, every single video he posts seems to be about how much he hates feminists or liberals or simply not being a jerk to people.

Basement dweller who thinks his accent is enough to make people think he's smart.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno, every single video he posts seems to be about how much he hates feminists or liberals or simply not being a jerk to people.
> 
> Basement dweller who thinks his accent is enough to make people think he's smart.



I don't watch or care about Sargon, but I'm quite fed up of you filling up this thread with comments about licking butt-holes and so forth. 

All you're capable of is calling people sperglords, basement dwellers or telling people they only disagree with you because they want to perform rimjobs. 

This is _actually_ the very pinnacle of your intellect though, isn't it? Puerile childishness.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I don't watch or care about Sargon, but I'm quite fed up of you filling up this thread with comments about licking butt-holes and so forth.
> 
> All you're capable of is calling people sperglords, basement dwellers or telling people they only disagree with you because they want to perform rimjobs.
> 
> This is _actually_ the very pinnacle of your intellect though, isn't it? Puerile childishness.


I mock people. It's what I do.

Frankly, this isn't a proper thread with genuine discussion, it's a circle jerk, a hug box for sheltered little boys to wear their tinfoil hats and exchange conspiracy theories and I find it to be rather tragicomic.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I mock people. It's what I do.
> 
> Frankly, this isn't a proper thread with genuine discussion, it's a circle jerk, a hug box for sheltered little boys to wear their tinfoil hats and exchange conspiracy theories and I find it to be rather tragicomic.



Where in this thread has anybody said you want to suck Anita's anus?

Why do you think that it's acceptable to say that sort of thing about people and then, amazingly, try to take a moral highground?

You merely serve to cement people's suspicions that Social Justice Warriors are insular man-children who actually think calling their opposition a poo-poo-head will rally other people to their cause.
The sort of people who complain that failing to use a desired pronoun, even accidentally, is a bigoted remark, but see no problem with accusing other people of homo-eroticism, and expecting them to be embarrassed by it as if being gay is inherently undesirable...or who use _autism_ as an insult.  

You literally are everything bad you see in other people.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Where in this thread has anybody said you want to suck Anita's anus?
> 
> Why do you think that it's acceptable to say that sort of thing about people and then, amazingly, try to take a moral highground?
> 
> ...


Please don't lump me in with the run-of-the-mill SJW. I mean, the idea that being for Social Justice is bad is a dumb idea but honestly, I don't get mad about pronouns, I don't think Joss Whedon hates Romani people, and I love white people and cis men.

I have, frankly, been critical of some of Anita's points even if I may not have been clear. I feel she sometimes misunderstands basic fundamentals of storytelling even if I find her analysis to be interesting and insightful. But has she been wrong? Yeah. The whole race segregation thing was a big WTF moment that leaves be rather confused.

I'm NOT blindly celebrating her, merely defending her. I'm not posting every single video or tweet and go all "ANITA SAID SOMETHING WOOOOOOO", like people are doing with Sargon. There's is literally nothing useful in this thread because all these dudes here are totally gay for their MRA super heroes and don't wanna think outside of the box of of their video games and just parrot whatever Sargon or whoever said again and again and then accuse Anita of doing the same with Jonathan McIntosh.

This is a useless thread but I'm making the best of it.~


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

ohh what will the SJW's do when there's nothing to bitch about i wonder


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> ohh what will the SJW's do when there's nothing to bitch about i wonder



Find something else to bitch about, there is always something the SJW will conjure up so they can freely be the bitchiest bitchess of bitchtopolis


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Well, Kellie, I'm mostly happy that GG is getting the recognition and support it needs. Anita isn't worth defending because she's be proven a lia and misinformed on many issues. To the ones she gets right? A stuck clock is right twice a day.

Though it sucks how much of a bad rap GG gets. I have to sit there and not say anything while some art friends call GG misoginist and what not. Unsurprisingly one of the guys of whom was running his mouth later removed all contact with me as I simply stated that Rhodesia wasn't as bad as South Africa, and in fact was better off than Zimbabwe. In before "cool story bro" but SJWs strike me as vitriolic and intolerant people who enjoy echo chambers. After all, who will disagree with you when you surround yourself in an environment where no one can?


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/07...gay-rights-groups-decry-the-parade-as-racist/

Sweden is just trying to get gays killed at this point


"Many leftists are also calling for the parade to be legally banned, and  for the people who organized it to be arrested for â€œhate speechâ€ against  Muslims."

lol

SJW are nonsense.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Sweden is just trying to get gays killed at this point
> 
> "Many leftists are also calling for the parade to be legally banned, and  for the people who organized it to be arrested for â€œhate speechâ€ against  Muslims."



Hilarious. It just exposes the doublethink.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

SJW's are the real circle jerkers. ill listen to what people have to say then decide if its bullshit based on evidence and reason. i dont need others who share my views around me to protect me.
SJW's dont listen to anyone's views, they dont debate they just scream like little girls, plug their ears and proceed to jerk each other off with false claims of misogyny and racism. they need other SJW's around to  cement their false accusation in order to feel good about themselves. they attack innocent people in mobs like school yard bullies and when you stand up to them with evidence and prove them wrong they scream and bitch and slander you, calling you names and spit on your character  because they cant make a valid point and they know it.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Please don't lump me in with the run-of-the-mill SJW. I mean, the idea that being for Social Justice is bad is a dumb idea but honestly, I don't get mad about pronouns, I don't think Joss Whedon hates Romani people, and I love white people and cis men.
> 
> I have, frankly, been critical of some of Anita's points even if I may not have been clear. I feel she sometimes misunderstands basic fundamentals of storytelling even if I find her analysis to be interesting and insightful. But has she been wrong? Yeah. The whole race segregation thing was a big WTF moment that leaves be rather confused.
> 
> ...



Yes, Youâ€™ve stated criticisms of Anitaâ€™s points. You donâ€™t have to worry about that being clear. That isnâ€™t being challenged. What is being challenged is how you defend yourself and your points. This is indeed becoming a useless thread, but if you think that is a problem, you are most certainly not making the best of it.

I  believe you get lumped in with â€œthe run-of-the-mill SJWâ€ because of  your actions. You call people sheltered nerds, neckbeards, pussies,  bastards, and claim parroting and use homosexuality in insult every time  Zuriak links to a video he finds relevant to his opinion on the matter  from Sargon.

Maybe you'll think this is parroting, but I think a familiar face made it clear in this thread that everyone is entitled an opinion, and everyone is entitled to their criticisms. Nobody, however, has the right to be free from having their childish, immature criticisms and opinions torn apart for what they are.

My nephew calls me gay for disliking the Red Hot Chilli Peppers. You call people gay for watching Sargon's videos. I find it more sensible for a child to be making that kind of argument.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> My nephew calls me gay for disliking the Red Hot Chilli Peppers.



what kind of queer are you i dont care for them either


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> what kind of queer are you



The cool kind


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

this thread


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## Fallowfox (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/07...gay-rights-groups-decry-the-parade-as-racist/
> 
> Sweden is just trying to get gays killed at this point
> 
> ...




I find this upsetting. Instead of challenging homophobic and sexist attitudes among religious hardliners the left are all too keen to excuse abominable treatment and hatred as a cultural right. 

Do they not realise that they're simply saying 'We cannot possibly hold the barbarians to the same standards as ourselves,' ?


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## Volkodav (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This is a normal occurance in the left. If you have any argument or criticism against Islam or Muslim actions, you're called a "racist" despite Islam not being a race
If you point out how homophobic and disgusting the muslim community is towards LGBT, you're called a "racist"
If these people blow up a cartoon editor's building or whatever, they'll say "you shouldn't have provoked them!"

It's basically treating them like ignorant, homophobic savages who "don't know any better". Like a dog, or a bear, or a lion or something

The left are a bunch of hypocrites and will insult people in attempts to defend them.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/07...gay-rights-groups-decry-the-parade-as-racist/
> 
> Sweden is just trying to get gays killed at this point
> 
> ...





> No, this is not satire.  On July 29, a gay pride parade is scheduled in Sweden.  But, you see, this is no ordinary gay pride parade.  *This gay pride parade was created by Jan Sjunnesson, former editor-in-chief for the **Samtiden** newspaper in Sweden, which is owned by the nationalist Sweden Democrats party (for our Canadian readers, think of the Sweden Democrats as being kind of like the Conservatives or the Canadian Action Party, which means that theyâ€™re considered â€œextreme far-rightâ€ in Sweden). **The parade is scheduled to go through Tensta and Husby â€“ two areas where Muslim immigrants are more than 75% of the population.*



[yt]VyaNhr61QQY[/yt]


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## Troj (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I find this upsetting. Instead of challenging homophobic and sexist attitudes among religious hardliners the left are all too keen to excuse abominable treatment and hatred as a cultural right.
> 
> Do they not realise that they're simply saying 'We cannot possibly hold the barbarians to the same standards as ourselves,' ?



Oh yes, it's maddening. Even Salon, Cracked, and other left-leaning sites will occasionally wring their hands over Ayaan Hirsi Ali and various prominent atheists being "Islamophobic," because they've simply dared to criticize Islam.

When I was in college, the Nation of Islam showed up to a campus discussion on the Dutch Mohammad cartoons, and as two women in hijabs stared at the floor, this guy ranted for about 30 minutes about how Muslims are only waging jihad against unrighteousness and sin, because Christianity condones drunkenness, blasphemy, and sexual immorality. No one challenged him, and many people nodded and smiled politely.

You're entirely right, Fallowfox, that the Unfortunate Insinuation here is that Muslims can't be held to the same moral and behavioral standards at the rest of us.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/124791988658/sjw-social-justice-warrior-t-shirts


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The amount of ass-kissing you give Sargon in this thread is amazing.
> 
> Too bad he ain't gay.


C'mon, don't act like you don't want to see two fluffy and bearded men going at it!


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 22, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> [yt]VyaNhr61QQY[/yt]


I'm wondering which they will consider more of a crime: Gay people celebrating or gay people being beaten. Tick tock, Sweden, time to embarrass yourself once again!



Volkodav said:


> http://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/124791988658/sjw-social-justice-warrior-t-shirts


http://i.imgur.com/5hdfrYd.png

Like a teenage girl, I can't even.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Okay about Pride JÃ¤rva, you guys are being, to be frank, pretty dumb.

Real pride parades are held annually in various parts of Sweden and pride in Stockholm is like, the biggest thing ever. There are no muslim pride parades, after all.

Pride JÃ¤rva was a cheap recruitment trick by Sweden Democrats to lure in gays against their islamophobic tirades, even though the people holding Pride JÃ¤rva are extremely homophobic (excuse the google translate).

I've said this before and I'll say it again, please don't read Volk's posts and do your homework.

Homophobes held a fake pride parade in an attempt to drive a wedge between the LGBTQ community and muslims. That's final.

You guys frankly don't know a damn thing about Sweden, stop pretending that you do.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Okay about Pride JÃ¤rva, you guys are being, to be frank, pretty dumb.
> 
> Real pride parades are held annually in various parts of Sweden and pride in Stockholm is like, the biggest thing ever. There are no muslim pride parades, after all.
> 
> ...



Hence the bait.mp4.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> Hence the bait.mp4.


I don't speak in video formats so I'm not sure what your point is.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> This is a normal occurance in the left. If you have any argument or criticism against Islam or Muslim actions, you're called a "racist" despite Islam not being a race
> If you point out how homophobic and disgusting the muslim community is towards LGBT, you're called a "racist"
> If these people blow up a cartoon editor's building or whatever, they'll say "you shouldn't have provoked them!"
> 
> ...


Yet people who simply disagree with gay marriage are "horrible people".


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Yet people who simply disagree with gay marriage are "horrible people".


GO HOME TO ASS-GHANISTAN YOU TERRORIST.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I don't speak in video formats so I'm not sure what your point is.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Okay about Pride JÃ¤rva, you guys are being, to be frank, pretty dumb.
> 
> Real pride parades are held annually in various parts of Sweden and pride in Stockholm is like, the biggest thing ever. There are no muslim pride parades, after all.
> 
> ...



I'm no fan of the Swedish Democrats, and I can well believe that some of their members are homophobic and that they only organised the parade because they sought to expose widespread homophobia and a tendency towards threats of violence in Sweden's muslim-majority communities. 

Whatever their motive, though, that widespread homophobia still exists in muslim-majority communities, and it's apparent that Swedes haven't been holding foreigners who have settled in Sweden to the same moral standards that are expected of everyone else, and that it's about time that one of society's major oppressors, religious fundamentalists, should not be entitled to get away that behaviour because they claim to be oppressed. 

It's this sort of double-standard which led the south yorkshire police force to ignore complaints of sexual molestation and rape against south Asian men from white women as 'fabrications' designed to incite racism. A network of hundreds of rapists was ignored for 16 years as a result. 

SD's actions have exposed the beast that you'd rather pretend didn't exist.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

What Fallow said.

If you want your multi-culti utopian paradise of love and tolerance to stand a slightly better chance at actually working, all members of society will have to be held to a standard that enforces it. That's right, _equally_.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I think it would also be a good idea to aim to create communities which are mixed, rather than scattered foreign-majority communities. 

In England those insular communities have been problematic.
 A Bangladeshi-dominated community in Tower-Hamlets elected a corrupt mayor who ran as an independent, because he was Bangladeshi and he treated other Bangladeshis preferably to everyone else...so of course they loved him. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutfur_Rahman_(politician)
He was eventually exposed for corrupt and illegal practices and electoral fraud, and forced to step down.

There are also examples in which members of parliament deliberately tried to stir up racial hatred, so that they could step in and save the day, in order to make immigrant communities feel like they had to vote for their saviour:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afzal_Amin


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

A mixed community would lose its culture entirely eventually so it wouldn't really be a mixed community at all - that's just integration.

Cultures are willingly self-segregating. You never see Jews in a Muslim area, or vice versa.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I'm no fan of the Swedish Democrats, and I can well believe that some of their members are homophobic and that they only organised the parade because they sought to expose widespread homophobia and a tendency towards threats of violence in Sweden's muslim-majority communities.
> 
> Whatever their motive, though, that widespread homophobia still exists in muslim-majority communities, and it's apparent that Swedes haven't been holding foreigners who have settled in Sweden to the same moral standards that are expected of everyone else, and that it's about time that one of society's major oppressors, religious fundamentalists, should not be entitled to get away that behaviour because they claim to be oppressed.
> 
> ...


Missing the point.

SD are homophobes, they hare repeatedly spouted homophobic bullshit and think trans people should be forcibly sterilized, so they're no less homopbobic than "the muslims". Anti LGBTQ-attitudes are deeply rooted in their politics. This was an organized attempt to trick the LBGTQ community into supporting a party that hates them because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Generalizing all muslims is problematic too when there are LGBTQ-friendly muslims and Sweden is literally one of the safest, most LGBTQ-friendly places in the world, so I take issue when people think Sweden is like a muslim version of russia. :/


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Missing the point.
> 
> SD are homophobes, they hare repeatedly spouted homophobic bullshit and think trans people should be forcibly sterilized, so they're no less homopbobic than "the muslims". Anti LGBTQ-attitudes are deeply rooted in their politics. This was an organized attempt to trick the LBGTQ community into supporting a party that hates them because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
> 
> Generalizing all muslims is problematic too when there are LGBTQ-friendly muslims and Sweden is literally one of the safest, most LGBTQ-friendly places in the world, so I take issue when people think Sweden is like a muslim version of russia. :/



We shouldn't ignore the existence of social issues in minority communities in order to spite political parties we don't like.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> We shouldn't ignore the existence of social issues in minority communities in order to spite political parties we don't like.


I never said we should ignore anything.

I could also for convenience flip this around and say "we shouldn't ignore the existence of social issues in political parties in order to spite minorities we don't like".

Stockholm Pride, one of the biggest events in Sweden ever, is still happening by the way. So LGBTQ people aren't taking a back seat to please some pissed off muslims. And goddamn, do I wish I could go this year but I don't have the money for it. ;w;


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If a political party got rid of its views that you disagree with and replaced them with ones you prefer, it defeats the point of it being a political party in the first place.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This thread is forbidden from ever being shown in Southern sex ed classes. Why?

BECAUSE ITS AN ABORTION


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I never said we should ignore anything.
> 
> I could also for convenience flip this around and say "we shouldn't ignore the existence of social issues in political parties in order to spite minorities we don't like".
> 
> Stockholm Pride, one of the biggest events in Sweden ever, is still happening by the way. So LGBTQ people aren't taking a back seat to please some pissed off muslims. And goddamn, do I wish I could go this year but I don't have the money for it. ;w;



Expecting prejudiced attitudes and violent behaviour to be criticised, whether it comes from a political party or a religious minority group, is 'spiteful' apparently. 

Whether or not people like SD, they've highlighted an important problem, which is that there genuinely are communities in Sweden where a vitriolic attitude towards gay people is accepted and encouraged. 

Will anything be done to actually redress that?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> If a political party got rid of its views that you disagree with and replaced them with ones you prefer, it defeats the point of it being a political party in the first place.


It's possible to discuss immigration politics, integration and so on without being a hateful xenophobic bigot who thinks halal meat is magic and turns you into a muslim.

Or to call them rapists based on false facts.

It ain't that hard, bro.



Fallowfox said:


> Expecting prejudiced attitudes and violent behaviour to be criticised, whether it comes from a political party or a religious minority group, is 'spiteful' apparently.
> 
> Whether or not people like SD, they've highlighted an important problem, which is that there genuinely are communities in Sweden where a vitriolic attitude towards gay people is accepted and encouraged.
> 
> Will anything be done to actually redress that?


Don't put words in my mouth again, I never mentioned violence and honestly, I dunno what to tell ya except that you either gotta be smoking something or live in Dalarna to think there's a lot of vitriolic attitudes towards gays in Sweden, and in the latter case it's because of nazis. We love gays! We made the fucking GaySation 4!

Look, immigration and integration are probably debatable but I dunno how many times I gotta say we love the LGBTQ community and that these vitriolic attitudes are severely overblown even if they do exist, both from religious nuts or SD's voters. But yer blowing it outta proportion. Sweden is a perfect place to be LGBTQ, which more than what I can say for the fucking US.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Violence was mentioned earlier in the thread when links to an article discussing a pride parade in Denmark were posted, and a group of Muslims in Norrenbrogad, where 30% of the population are Muslims, threw stones at people every year the parade went past them. 
In Febrauary a man from Norrenbro even shot and killed someone because he was offended about a Swedish Cartoonist's drawing of muhammed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31475803

That's why fear was expressed that Swedish Muslims, living in communities where 75% of the population is Muslim, rather than 30%, will respond with similar violence.

If nobody feared that they would...then they should have just let SD have their pride march, and be done with it, for there would have been no harm in it.

People want to prevent the march because they know that, just like in Denmark, it won't be peaceful and that religious zealots will respond with violence...and they're the sort of idiots who think that the answer is to accuse anybody who dare offend those lovely religious sensibilities of racism. :\


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Violence was mentioned earlier in the thread when links to an article discussing a pride parade in Denmark were posted, and a group of Muslims in Norrenbrogad, where 30% of the population are Muslims, threw stones at people every year the parade went past them.
> In Febrauary a man from Norrenbro even shot and killed someone because he was offended about a Swedish Cartoonist's drawing of muhammed:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31475803
> 
> ...


Pride JÃ¤rva will still happen, it's just getting a lot of criticism.

The point is that Pride JÃ¤rva is insincere, it's not about LGBTQ people or pride, it's trying to attract LGBTQ people and use them as pawns for a xenophobic agenda and then not actually treat LGBTQ people with dignity because the Pride JÃ¤rva organizers are anti-LGBTQ. I dunno how many times I gotta say this but they're only pretending.

The motherfucking HOST for the event writes for a far-right "news" site that has published articles saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to work with children because they're pedophiles, among other things.

REAL Pride, like Stockholm Pride, is happening and there hasn't been a single year where we've backed off because we were afraid we might offend someone. I mean, neo-nazis other homophobes have tried to disrupt pride parades before but we never went "FUCK IT, CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE THE HOMOPHOBES WON'T LET US", Stockholm Pride is still annual because, frankly, we Swedes actually have some fucking balls.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If SD is homophobic, and they organise a successful gay pride march, then that would be a significant own-goal for them.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Hell, even The Libertarian Party is shit.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> If SD is homophobic, and they organise a successful gay pride march, then that would be a significant own-goal for them.


I fucked up and wanna correct myself and apologize. D:

Pride JÃ¤rva isn't hosted by the Sweden Democrats, but it's hosted by a guy who wrote a paper for SD in the past and the site he's currently working for is pretty much in bed with SD, loudly supporting and frankly, asskissing SD.

But the point still remains, the organizers are homophobic and are only doing this to give the SD agenda more power, to drive a wedge between the muslim and LGBTQ, communities, two groups that they utterly hate and SD has in the past tried to lure in the gays they hate so much to sic 'em on the muslims. Sweden's LGBTQ community are usually smarter than that, though.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Yet people who simply disagree with gay marriage are "horrible people".



they are lol


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I fucked up and wanna correct myself and apologize. D:
> 
> Pride JÃ¤rva isn't hosted by the Sweden Democrats, but it's hosted by a guy who wrote a paper for SD in the past and the site he's currently working for is pretty much in bed with SD, loudly supporting and frankly, asskissing SD.
> 
> But *the point still remains*, the organizers are homophobic and are only doing this to give the SD agenda more power, to drive a wedge between the muslim and LGBTQ, communities, two groups that they utterly hate and SD has in the past tried to lure in the gays they hate so much to sic 'em on the muslims. Sweden's LGBTQ community are usually smarter than that, though.



...I'm not sure it does. Did the man who wrote the article express homophobic views? It's not sufficient to say he's guilty by association because some members of SD have. :\

and if the Muslim community really doesn't have a problem with gays, then why not have the march? Everything will go smoothly and, if SD really is involved, they will realise their agenda is irrelevant. 

But I'm worried that there is an ulterior motive to avoid the march, which is that precisely what happened in Copenhagen will happen, and that a lot of swedes won't be able to deny that they've fostered communities of religiously motivated hatred.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

back on topic. more feminist lies. http://www.reaxxion.com/7685/wil-wheaton-repeats-moronic-lies-about-anita-sarkeesian


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> ...I'm not sure it does. Did the man who wrote the article express homophobic views? It's not sufficient to say he's guilty by association because some members of SD have. :\
> 
> and if the Muslim community really doesn't have a problem with gays, then why not have the march? Everything will go smoothly and, if SD really is involved, they will realise their agenda is irrelevant.
> 
> But I'm worried that there is an ulterior motive to avoid the march, which is that precisely what happened in Copenhagen will happen, and that a lot of swedes won't be able to deny that they've fostered communities of religiously motivated hatred.


It's possible but unlikely that the guy hosting the event doesn't know about Avpixlat's (the right wing "news" site) homophobia and if he did he probably didn't wanna associate with 'em. The founder of Avpixlat is supportive of the event, or at least claims to be even though he's said a lot of homophobic shit.

I can understand the worries but so far Pride JÃ¤rva is still happening. I mean, if the police has given the organizers the green light then it'll probably happen.

But even if Pride JÃ¤rva doesn't happen, that doesn't really affect gay rights in Sweden much 'cause Stockholm Pride is still happening and the annual pride event in my living area will also happen later this year.

Frankly, I don't see anything to worry about, but pride JÃ¤rva is despicable in it's blatant attempt to pit two minorities against each other. But they have the right to be despicable if they choose to.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> they are lol


I was talking about how the left tries the paint a pretty picture for Islam while they're killing gays, yet decent Christians are seen as the real terrorists for simply disagreeing with homosexuality.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I was talking about how the left tries the paint a pretty picture for Islam while they're killing gays, yet decent Christians are seen as the real terrorists for simply disagreeing with homosexuality.



I do? That's news to me.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I was talking about how the left tries the paint a pretty picture for Islam while they're killing gays, yet decent Christians are seen as the real terrorists for simply disagreeing with homosexuality.



yeeeaaaah you cant just say left and assume eevery single person that identifies with left sided issues does that. honestly if they disagree with someone having the right to marry they arent really decent are they. nobody called them terrorist's , they call them bigots like they are.



and on another note  more on SJW scum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UygWA8kgUtk


----------



## TrishaCat (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://blogs.indiewire.com/criticwire/pixels-reviews-give-adam-sandler-no-quarter-20150722
http://www.medievalists.net/2015/07...ow-video-games-are-hijacking-the-middle-ages/
Uh...


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> http://blogs.indiewire.com/criticwire/pixels-reviews-give-adam-sandler-no-quarter-20150722
> http://www.medievalists.net/2015/07...ow-video-games-are-hijacking-the-middle-ages/
> Uh...


yeah sargon disputed the bullshit in the second link allready


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It's possible to discuss immigration politics, integration and so on without being a hateful xenophobic bigot



No, it really isn't.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> No, it really isn't.


Just be calm, concentrated, do your homework. It's simple.

Well, mostly. I've heard it's a bit hard to talk about and confront xenophobia in a proper debate without being called racist. But as far as I'm concerned, just be firm and assertive, just like the Dog Whisperer says. :V


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Just be calm, concentrated, do your homework. It's simple.
> 
> Well, mostly. I've heard it's a bit hard to talk about and confront xenophobia in a proper debate without being called racist. But as far as I'm concerned, just be firm and assertive, just like the Dog Whisperer says. :V



I don't think you get what I'm trying to imply. The primary argument _for_ immigration is to not be racist and be tolerant and charitable. Anything else is vile hatred.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> I don't think you get what I'm trying to imply. The primary argument _for_ immigration is to not be racist and be tolerant and charitable. Anything else is vile hatred.


Maybe I'm blindly optimistic but if you can talk about immigration without saying "MUSLIMS ARE RAPING OR WIMMINS" I think you'll do fine.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Maybe I'm blindly optimistic but if you can talk about immigration without saying "MUSLIMS ARE RAPING OR WIMMINS" I think you'll do fine.



No, because countless people try to take an anti-immigration stance and they're always met with accusations of racism, simply because they point out painful truths which are too damaging to be ignored.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> No, because countless people try to take an anti-immigration stance and they're always met with accusations of racism, simply because they point out painful truths which are too damaging to be ignored.


Might be because people taking an anti-immigration stance focus more on the immigrants than immigration itself. Causing financial problems is one thing but spreading paranoia about brown people is something else.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Might be because people taking an anti-immigration stance focus more on the immigrants than immigration itself. Causing financial problems is one thing but spreading paranoia about brown people is something else.



Then draft and enforce stricter immigration policies. This'll ensure that you'll import decent human capital that probably won't cause problems down the road.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Artillery Spam said:


> Then draft and enforce stricter immigration policies. This'll ensure that you'll import decent human capital that probably won't cause problems down the road.


I'm no expert so I dunno if that works or is legal in the EU. There's also the ethical concerns when it comes to refugees, it's kind of objectively wrong to send back people who fled the country 'cause they would've been killed there.

But maybe your solution works. Like I said, no expert on EU's system or even Sweden's immigration system.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> they are lol



Depends on who you ask, for example, a reverend may choose to disagree with it because it puts their job at stake - even if they personally believe that they should be given that *church rite*.

If you ask some women, they may feel averted to it, simply because of their idea of what marriage should be like.

Now a person like me, I would not _encourage_ it because we're still in a state of intolerance, and we can't make it so that each gay married couple will have a stable support group.

Let's say a gay politician wanted to run for president, do you believe that the majority of people will accept the term "First Man"? Have we gone that far to say that this whole ordeal is perfect?

Keep in mind, there are many wars on these streets, and I trust no one group of men to make it all ok.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

back on topic ppl this isnt a gay marrage discussion


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> But maybe your solution works.



It really depends on the nation itself. 

Nations like Japan or Egypt that have strict immigration laws suffer a small bit from it. 

Nations like China or India that have strict immigration laws benefit a small bit from it.

It is equally the same with relatively lax immigration laws.

That has nothing to do with the morality of it all, especially when you consider things like asylum laws, but I'm in no position to speak on things like asylum.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

feminism vs. logic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_O1R7Zq9EI&list=PLgC1nDSnzrrndVXxp-kG19LYFk39aAhMC&index=3


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Talk avout feminists being stupid or else ill put the smackdown on this thread


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> back on topic ppl this isnt a gay marrage discussion



OK yeah. 

I hate feminism ya ya.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://i.imgur.com/fr4rSl3.jpg

lol


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 23, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> https://i.imgur.com/fr4rSl3.jpg
> 
> lol


http://i.imgur.com/XIu5Q5a.jpg

Richard Dawkins is still wrecking theists and it's glorious.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> https://i.imgur.com/fr4rSl3.jpg
> 
> lol



OWNED!!! yeah lol like i said. id love these cunty new age feminist's to move to  pakistan. id say after a day there they would stop bitching about first world bullshit that doesn't even exist come home with open arms.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> https://i.imgur.com/fr4rSl3.jpg
> 
> lol



Even though I agree with him on many points, I'm never sure when Dawkins is making an attempt to use sarcasm to irritate others. Old man has diarrhea of the mouth to boot.

Even so, the response to that tweet is horrible. People telling him to kill himself for it, people telling him he can't have an opinion on that because he isn't Muslim, and people making death threats.

I'm not really sure either party made themselves look any better there.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> Even though I agree with him on many points, I'm never sure when Dawkins is making an attempt to use sarcasm to irritate others. Old man has diarrhea of the mouth to boot.
> 
> Even so, the response to that tweet is horrible. People telling him to kill himself for it, people telling him he can't have an opinion on that because he isn't Muslim, and people making death threats.
> 
> I'm not really sure either party made themselves look any better there.


 i have never met a muslim that wasnt a bigoted fool.  dawkins was 100% in the right in this instance


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> i have never met a muslim that wasnt a bigoted fool.  dawkins was 100% in the right in this instance



I was just pointing out that he may have been trying to get that kind of response. No solid position on the morality of his actions here.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> I was just pointing out that he may have been trying to get that kind of response. No solid position on the morality of his actions here.


the response on dawkins's part here was appropriate for the situation regardless of his motivation.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> the response on dawkins's part here was appropriate for the situation regardless of his motivation.



Never disagreed


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Let's say a gay politician wanted to run for president, do you believe that the majority of people will accept the term "First Man"? Have we gone that far to say that this whole ordeal is perfect?



This part tickled me. If a woman were to become president we'd have that too. It's funny to me the first thing that pops into homophobes (and you've shown yourself to be one many times let's be honest) minds when they think homosexual is two gay men. Isn't that fascinating? Hardly ever lesbians. They always seem to have big burly dudes on the brain. 

Read into that what you will.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

back on topic ffs.  more about SOCIAL JUSTICE HARASSERS like zoe quin etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qYQP1uSFWw


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> back on topic ffs.  more about SOCIAL JUSTICE HARASSERS like zoe quin etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qYQP1uSFWw


Beat you to it, but it's good to post it again!


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Beat you to it, but it's good to post it again!



the shit the SJW's did to total biscuit while he was in keemo therapy was appalling.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/feminists-attack-target-sexist-objectifying-demeaning-shirt

I'm not quite sure what to say about this one.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://www.mrctv.org/blog/feminists-attack-target-sexist-objectifying-demeaning-shirt
> 
> I'm not quite sure what to say about this one.


everyone is entitled to funny shirts. i once saw a shirt with nothing but falic symbol in text printed on it. and one with human bank machine on it.

on another note lol this shit http://jezebel.com/is-office-air-conditioning-a-sexist-conspiracy-1719883384


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Feminists gettin riled about the important shit.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> This part tickled me. If a woman were to become president we'd have that too. It's funny to me the first thing that pops into homophobes (and you've shown yourself to be one many times let's be honest) minds when they think homosexual is two gay men. Isn't that fascinating? Hardly ever lesbians. They always seem to have big burly dudes on the brain.
> 
> Read into that what you will.



My stance on sexuality is : "You love who you love.". I'm in no position to say that someone's love is unnatural or terrible, even unholy. I'm fine with anyone unless they cross me or plot against me. 


I'm glad you mentioned that. It's true that's the first thing that comes into mind when I hear the term "homosexual". I guess I don't hear from lesbians a lot. I really don't know what that's about, but it's a sign that we have a long way to go before we can say we're all equal.

Still, I'm trying to figure out when I was homophobic. I honestly don't care about a person's sexuality. If I actually did, I'd be missing out on some very good & interesting people. I don't like to be called closed minded, but I will say that there are some things that are missed, glossed over, and misrepresented. 

Sorry if I grinded your gears or seem a bit short-sighted, Butters.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

"Homo" is most often used to describe two gay men because the word for two gay women is LESBIANS
THIS IS NOT AN EQUALITY ISSUE, LMAO
CRY ABOUT SOMETHING IMPORTANT


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Real men don't cry


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Beat you to it, but it's good to post it again!


It's rather telling how GGers keep crying about being bullied while downplaying the harassment from their own movement.

Kinda like the homophobic christians who cry about being bullied when they're called out on their homophobia. :3c


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Congrats, now I'm unmoved.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It's rather telling how GGers keep crying about being bullied while downplaying the harassment from their own movement.
> 
> Kinda like the homophobic christians who cry about being bullied when they're called out on their homophobia. :3c



I'm not saying it is a good thing, but it makes sense for any group to downplay the bad of their side and give prominence to the good. It is one way to keep itself alive.

 All groups do it, even the most well-intentioned.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> I'm not saying it is a good thing, but it makes sense for any group to downplay the bad of their side and give prominence to the good. It is one way to keep itself alive.
> 
> All groups do it, even the most well-intentioned.


Fair enough, I wouldn't mind if people were better at disassociating from bad people in their own movements and that includes my fellow SJW-style types who think it's okay to tell a movie director that they should be punched in the face for casting decisions he didn't make.

Or that white cis men shouldn't be considered human.

I love cis men. <3


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

trolls using the GG hastag are not GGer's


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I love cis men. <3



As a gay male, I couldn't say I differ much in that opinion.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> trolls using the GG hastag are not GGer's


dat denial <3


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Fair enough, I wouldn't mind if people were better at disassociating from bad people in their own movements and that includes my fellow SJW-style types who think it's okay to tell a movie director that they should be punched in the face for casting decisions he didn't make.
> 
> Or that white cis men shouldn't be considered human.
> 
> I love cis men. <3


It's already been conceded that every movement has its bad apples but a lot of these examples of harassment are highly suspect.


----------



## Volkodav (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://i.imgur.com/UnvL1b0.png?1


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://i.imgur.com/UnvL1b0.png?1



I don't think they'd care as much if the artist was rich and handsome


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> I don't think they'd care as much if the artist was rich and handsome



Or if the artist were a woman, or a gay man, frankly.


----------



## MalletFace (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> I don't think they'd care as much if the artist was rich and handsome



Or a woman


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

my 2 cents on this trophy shirt nonsense consider me a cheap furry sargon unscripted just decided to rant on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fGyZr6p1H8


----------



## Troj (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It's rather telling how GGers keep crying about being bullied while downplaying the harassment from their own movement.:3c



Well, and you can see plenty of examples of the same behavior on the _other_ side of the fence, too.

People get so focused on fighting for their Cause and their Team, and are worried that bad apples on their side will undermine the legitimacy and power of their movement--so, they either lamely defend said bad apples, or shove them under the rug.

To my mind, the honorable and smart thing would usually be to acknowledge the existence of the bad apples, and then slam and criticize them even harder than the opposition.

But, most people don't do that, and it gives outsiders the impression that these groups actually like or condone the behavior of their resident shitheads.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 24, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> http://i.imgur.com/UnvL1b0.png?1



This here is a perfect example of "It's ok when _we_ do it.": http://oi60.tinypic.com/a47mgk.jpg




Troj said:


> Well, and you can see plenty of examples of the same behavior on the _other_ side of the fence, too.
> 
> People get so focused on fighting for their Cause and their Team, and are worried that bad apples on their side will undermine the legitimacy and power of their movement--so, they either lamely defend said bad apples, or shove them under the rug.
> 
> ...



Slight problem with that is that, for example, people seeing me criticize an obnoxious new atheistTM douchebag will tend to assume that I must therefore not be an atheist.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 25, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Vitriolic comments on the internet, like death threats, are exchanged so frequently that they are almost meaningless. 
I do not understand why people become so concerned about being sent such comments on twitter.
 If you are a prominent figure in a controversy, you're going to be the recipient of crazy but insincere mail whichever side you're on. 

Who on this forum hasn't been told, in online discussion, that other people would enjoy watching them burn in hell, want their family to be raped, accused of being a paedophile, a nazi sympathiser, an islamist or spammed with images of damaged anuses, people drinking their own diarrhoea, or crushing kittens with high-heels?

Most of you will actually remember those images specifically, and be like 'Oh you mean Goatse and Tub-girl?'


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 25, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Vitriolic comments on the internet, like death threats, are exchanged so frequently that they are almost meaningless.
> I do not understand why people become so concerned about being sent such comments on twitter.
> If you are a prominent figure in a controversy, you're going to be the recipient of crazy but insincere mail whichever side you're on.
> 
> ...



That's how it is for boring normal people. The internet is mainstream now, and the people who use it can't comprehend what lies beyond the relatively cuddly environment of facebook, twitter, and big youtubers. So when they encounter something, they take it extremely personally and assume it's done because they're a woman or something instead of just recognising it as ordinary internet stuff and reacting to it as such.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 25, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't see why we should just accept people being dickbags online but I suppose there's a difference between random trolling and the people who take it one step further and have the resources and addresses to actually find their target and hurt them. That was the case with Anita and some others. Or people who send pics of themselves jizzing on a photo of their targets.

That and, you know, men do face harassment but not of the sexual kind or of their gender. At least as far as I know, I dunno if there are any statistics to back up these claims.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 25, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's deeply hypocritical, but the very women, including Zoe Quinn who set up the online taskforce, called 'crash-overide', to deal with harassment, had themselves confessed to enjoying 'helldumping', which is when you find all the details, like the address and real names, of someone you dislike and publish them in a place where lots of horrible people can use them. 
People who enjoy harassing people, or getting trolls to post dead animals to them, shouldn't be put in charge of anti-harassment task forces, but I digress.


----------



## Troj (Jul 25, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Slight problem with that is that, for example, people seeing me criticize an obnoxious new atheistTM douchebag will tend to assume that I must therefore not be an atheist.



Oh, I don't doubt it. Those are people who've obviously fallen prey to the "you're with us or against us" mindset.

The best you can do about that is just keep reminding people that you're an atheist too, but disagree with these other atheists on other personal or philosophical grounds.



			
				Fallowfox said:
			
		

> Vitriolic comments on the internet, like death threats, are exchanged so frequently that they are almost meaningless.



Yes, and I think people who want to be on the Internet need to be prepared to deal with some trolling and vitriol.

But, I have noticed that certain types of people are more likely to receive or endure certain kinds of trolling and harassment, and that the threshold for people getting personal depends on who they're getting personal with. 

Women definitely tend to receive a different hateful comments than men. I remember reading an article many years ago about politicians getting hate mail from pro-lifers. The mail to the women usually consisted of "I hope you get raped I'm going to rape you rape rape rape rape rape." When the one male politician mentioned in the article got a hate mail, it contained a rape threat directed at his _three-year-old daughter_. 

There are trolls and bullies who generally resent it when anyone contradicts or disagrees with them, but they _really_ resent it when people they see as inferior or subservient to them get uppity---hence the particular brand of rage and ire that seems to be reserved for women online, I'd say.

So, the ideal response to all this should be both/and, I'd say, in that people need to grow a thicker skin and realize that being on the Internet means encountering people who'll rickroll you and then tell you to get fucked and die in a fire, and we all need to admit that some people are at a higher risk for being doxxed, trolled, or bullied online, and that not all types or examples of bullying, trolling, and doxxing are created same and equal.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 25, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> Oh, I don't doubt it. Those are people who've obviously fallen prey to the "you're with us or against us" mindset.
> 
> The best you can do about that is just keep reminding people that you're an atheist too, but disagree with these other atheists on other personal or philosophical grounds.



"Why do you atheists keep shoving your atheism in our faces? Can't you just keep it to yourself you fedora-wearing neckbeard!?"

Yeah... these people have become their own worst enemy. Kinda like modern feminists.


----------



## Hyzoran (Jul 26, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

As a white straight male, here my standpoint on the situation:

I am all for equal rights, perceptions, and roles of both male and female or whatever else.
I do not approve of society's expectations of certain roles based on gender.
I do not approve of constant sexualization of female (or male) characters in video games. (The armor argument, cleavage, etc.)
I do not approve of anti-homosexual agendas or propaganda, or otherwise homophobic behavior.
I also do not approve this apparent perception that men (or even straight people) are not as emotionally deep or sensitive as women/gays.
I do not approve of judging people by their race or religion either.

However, from my point of view, most people who identify as feminists are merely looking for something to bitch about and go out of their way to be offended by whatever they can, motivated by opportunities for personal gain, advancement, authoritation, or just being an immature self-victimizing idiots looking for pity. This goes for most of those on tumblr who obsess on scientifically categorizing different sexualities, identifying as whateverkin, or otherwise giving themselves stupid labels just to look cool. In regards to feminism, infact I have even seen numerous posts and content that would suggest that men only exist for 'eating' and pleasing women.
These people irritate me because they are often selfish, hypocritical, and two-faced, cause social regression, and just downright stupid.

I apologize to anyone who may be in this category and may have a decent, actual reason to pursue these acts, I cannot claim to understand everything on why people may do these things.
I try to ignore these types of people, however I have had someone in my past who obsessed over this type of stuff, and they turned out to be very selfish and hurt me very badly in their wake of reject, so indeed, my opinion may be biased on this matter, but that is simply how I see it and how I decipher it.

EDIT: Another topic I have forgot:

I hate all these social issues that people obsess over and do whatever they can to blame someone for something and being offended, and then call for something to get censored, it is fucking ridiculous. Unless someone or something actively calls out for harm against a certain person, group, sex, race, etc. then ignore it and get over yourself, idiot.

I also hate how there are all these categories of social activism focused on certain groups, feminism, black rights, whatever, etc.
Why can't we all just call it 'doing the right thing'? Why can't we all just do the right fucking thing, and get over ourselves?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hyzoran said:


> I also hate how there are all these categories of social activism focused on certain groups, feminism, black rights, whatever, etc.
> Why can't we all just call it 'doing the right thing'? Why can't we all just do the right fucking thing, and get over ourselves?


I'm pretty sure that blacks didn't achieve their rights by not focusing on the problems their own race faced. Same with feminism.

I mean, I get what you're saying and it sounds nice on paper but "focus on everyone" just doesn't work when it comes to achieving equal rights. There's a reason gay pride exists, rather than "doing the right thing pride".


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

On the subject of Male and Female emotionality:

Women typically have more intense and frequent emotional responses than men do. It is not entirely clear if this is because Women feel emotions more intensely, or are just more likely to express them. 
Women often out-compete men in tests to determine empathy, though it's not clear how much of this is intrinsic and how much is cultural.
Men are significantly more likely to have detached 'emotionally cool' personalities than Women are.
Women even show different, more intense patterns of brain activity when they are committing emotional experiences to memory: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2576-womens-better-emotional-recall-explained/


So people who perceive emotional differences between men and women aren't simply sexist; _something_'s going on. I'm not sure whether homosexual men are emotionally different from heterosexuals.




Kellie Gator said:


> I'm pretty sure that blacks didn't achieve  their rights by not focusing on the problems their own race faced. Same  with feminism.
> 
> I mean, I get what you're saying and it sounds nice on paper but "focus  on everyone" just doesn't work when it comes to achieving equal rights.  There's a reason gay pride exists, rather than "doing the right thing  pride".



There certainly is a tendency to create a 'them and us' exclusive mentality, rather than an inclusive one, though. 

At my sixth form college there were pro-gay posters everywhere, encouraging women to accept the existence of their 'inner lesbian'. My straight friends complained that they were fed up of being spammed with posters which were passively aggressive or asserted that they were bigoted, or were secretly repressing internal homosexual desires. 

When I joined the student LGBT society I discovered that they were in the process of trying to get a female student formally disciplined because she had said that she thought lesbians kissing was gross, on twitter...as if that sort of thing actually matters or in any way inhibits the well being of real lesbians; why would they even care about that?

Eventually, when 'it's okay to be straight' posters started appearing in college posted by anonymous students, I had to explain to the LGBT society that this was a direct result of their 'them and us' mentality, which spoke-down to straight people as if they were merely either 'homophobes waiting to happen' or gay people repressing their true-selves, and that _this _was why there was a back-lash among the students that heterosexual isn't a pejorative term.


----------



## Anthropomorphic Human (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> On the subject of Male and Female emotionality:
> 
> Women typically have more intense and frequent emotional responses than men do. It is not entirely clear if this is because Women feel emotions more intensely, or are just more likely to express them.



Feminists claim it's because women have smaller tear ducts XD



Fallowfox said:


> There certainly is a tendency to create a 'them and us' exclusive mentality, rather than an inclusive one, though.
> 
> At my sixth form college there were pro-gay posters everywhere,  encouraging women to accept the existence of their 'inner lesbian'. My  straight friends complained that they were fed up of being spammed with  posters which were passively aggressive or asserted that they were  bigoted, or were secretly repressing internal homosexual desires.
> 
> ...



Exactly. The pendulum's now swung past center and is continuing in the wrong direction. The gay pride thing thankfully doesn't cause many real problems (though it is a pain in the ass), but feminism... blurgh. Feminism has served its purpose and is no longer needed in the first world, but feminists just keep going as if 'Murica is Bumfuck, Iraqistan.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Female tear ducts genuinely do have a different anatomy to male ducts. So maybe that _is_ part of the explanation of why they're 4 times more likely to cry than men.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Female tear ducts genuinely do have a different anatomy to male ducts. So maybe that _is_ part of the explanation of why they're 4 times more likely to cry than men.


Lol no. :I

Well, it's possible but I seriously doubt it. I'm on HRT as a trans woman, and the estrogen I'm taking sure as hell made me more prone to crying than before I was on hormones. Admittedly I haven't cried much lately but I guess it's that I'm kind of tough. But the idea that women cry more because of different tear ducts is something I'm going to call bullshit on until it's been proven otherwise.


----------



## Recel (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Female tear ducts genuinely do have a different anatomy to male ducts. So maybe that _is_ part of the explanation of why they're 4 times more likely to cry than men.



Tear ducts are there _when_ you cry, not _to make_ you cry. Now if you had said tear _gland_, the story might be more believable.
Tear ducts channel the tears towards the nose. They are just that. Ducts. They don't dispense Uncle Steve's Hot-sauce.


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## MalletFace (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Recel said:


> Tear ducts are there _when_ you cry, not _to make_ you cry. Now if you had said tear _gland_, the story might be more believable.



Not that I've a degree in human anatomy, but your arteries are there when your heart beats, not to make your heart beat. Deformations in the arteries still change how your heart beats and how blood flows.

That an organ is not the direct cause of something generally doesn't mean it can't play a role.

Tear sacs are indeed probably what was meant, though.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Lol no. :I
> 
> Well, it's possible but I seriously doubt it. I'm on HRT as a trans woman, and the estrogen I'm taking sure as hell made me more prone to crying than before I was on hormones. Admittedly I haven't cried much lately but I guess it's that I'm kind of tough. But the idea that women cry more because of different tear ducts is something I'm going to call bullshit on until it's been proven otherwise.



First off, I was wrong about ducts; it's actually the tear glands and levels of a hormone called 'Prolactin', which women produce more of. This may explain why female and male likelihood to cry is the same for children, but deviates during puberty. 

This article by the American Psychological Association expands on a variety of ideas about crying:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/cry.aspx

I'm not sure whether your experiences as a trans woman are relevant. I don't know whether your tear glands remain the same as before, if you produce more prolactin than before and so on.




Recel said:


> Tear ducts are there _when_ you cry, not _to make_ you cry. Now if you had said tear _gland_, the story might be more believable.
> Tear ducts channel the tears towards the nose. They are just that. Ducts. They don't dispense Uncle Steve's Hot-sauce.




It* is* the tear gland. I was mistaken when I said 'duct'. 

Evidently nobody tried looking it up to check.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK8WzFFXAAUjxsC.png


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I'm not sure whether your experiences as a trans woman are relevant. I don't know whether your tear glands remain the same as before, if you produce more prolactin than before and so on.


I regularly take blood tests to monitor my HRT and one of the things we always test is prolactin levels, so I think it's relevant, yes.


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## Anthropomorphic Human (Jul 27, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK8WzFFXAAUjxsC.png



http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/35800000/Ryuko-Matoi-kill-la-kill-35886673-848-480.png


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## Kit411230 (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/620324929733394433

Oh my god! Arkham knigt _is_ sexist after all, just look at all those dead men strewn around the floor. I wish she would stop being so biased & look at both sides.
It looks to me that her idea of a perfect feminist game is where the protagonist is exclusively female and the only villains, support characters and enemy's you can kill or be killed are only male


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kit411230 said:


> https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/620324929733394433
> 
> Oh my god! Arkham knigt _is_ sexist after all, just look at all those dead men strewn around the floor. I wish she would stop being so biased & look at both sides.
> It looks to me that her idea of a perfect feminist game is where the protagonist is exclusively female and the only villains, support characters and enemy's you can kill or be killed are only male


There's a difference between men killing men and men killing women.

But if I recall correctly she did praise the female enemies in BioShock Infinite because they were portrayed as soldiers doing their job; they weren't killed for their gender and their deaths were never sexualized. My memory's a bit fuzzy to be honest, though.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Isn't killing people in general a bigger moral problem?


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Isn't killing people in general a bigger moral problem?


That it is, but it's kind of how video games have been made for a long time, so... the lesser of multiple evils, I guess?


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## Fallowfox (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I suspect that, since people have the wherewithall to realise that not all fictional characters' actions would be moral in real life, that there is no need to criticise fictional characters for insulting one another or treating each other with prejudicial attitudes. 
They murder, cheat, steal and maim; as if anybody thinks any of those things are acceptable just because they've read about them in fiction.


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## Troj (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

In this case, I'd say that it's fair to critique or criticize art for a) failing at its basic mission or goal, b) representing a stupid or disagreeable point of view, or c) taking its implicit or unconscious assumptions about the world for granted.

It's not fair to criticize or critique a piece of art for merely _representing_ or _depicting_ something disagreeable, dumb, or immoral, especially if the art itself doesn't condone that view or behavior.

Also, while it might be reasonable or fair to argue that art influences people's values, beliefs, and emotions--especially on a subconscious or subtle level--generally, you sound like like a grade-A lunatic if you try to claim that a piece of art MAKES! people do bad things.


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## Azure (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Anita Sarkeesian is a symptom of a society that has no idea what to give a fuck about anymore. Ignore her and she will disappear, and that right soon. Remember the first rule of the internet, and that is never take feminists seriously because the very NATURE of their being is sexist. Against men. Dont feed the troll.


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## Zuriak (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Azure said:


> Anita Sarkeesian is a symptom of a society that has no idea what to give a fuck about anymore. Ignore her and she will disappear, and that right soon. Remember the first rule of the internet, and that is never take feminists seriously because the very NATURE of their being is sexist. Against men. Dont feed the troll.


Ignoring this won't make it go away, though it's unfortunate that criticism of Anita is brushed aside as harassment.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Troj said:


> In this case, I'd say that it's fair to critique or criticize art for a) failing at its basic mission or goal, b) representing a stupid or disagreeable point of view, or c) taking its implicit or unconscious assumptions about the world for granted.
> 
> It's not fair to criticize or critique a piece of art for merely _representing_ or _depicting_ something disagreeable, dumb, or immoral, especially if the art itself doesn't condone that view or behavior.
> 
> Also, while it might be reasonable or fair to argue that art influences people's values, beliefs, and emotions--especially on a subconscious or subtle level--generally, you sound like like a grade-A lunatic if you try to claim that a piece of art MAKES! people do bad things.


I don't see why it's not fair.

The idea that art makes people do bad things is debatable, yes, but otherwise you'll have to elaborate on that.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I don't see why it's not fair.
> 
> The idea that art makes people do bad things is debatable, yes, but otherwise you'll have to elaborate on that.




People who criticise John Steinbeck for using the word 'Nigger' in his novel 'Of Mice and Men' are doing so unfairly, because John Steinbeck deliberately includes racist characters in order to highlight the injustice of racism.

All sorts of such criticisms are made, often by people who haven't even read or watched the content they are criticising.

They're part of the 'everything is prejudiced' parade, who seem to think that merely mentioning unsavoury topics is tantamount to advocating them. :\


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## Ieono (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> They're part of the 'everything is prejudiced' parade, who seem to think that merely mentioning unsavoury topics is tantamount to advocating them. :\



Well, you do perpetuate those things by mentioning them, especially on a platform that is widely viewed by the masses. Some would argue that many social issues still exist because they are given so much attention in society.


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## Troj (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I don't see why it's not fair.
> 
> The idea that art makes people do bad things is debatable, yes, but otherwise you'll have to elaborate on that.



Sure.

Mainly, the argument that plays/paintings/novels/music/movies/TV shows/video games will drive people to commit evil and immoral acts is as old as art itself--and each time, with each new form of expression, we find that the doom-and-gloom predictions just didn't hold water. 

You can point to some examples of (often mentally-ill or already-agitated) people seemingly being inspired to negatively imitate or emulate some piece of art or media, but in terms of the everyday, most people manage to listen to music, watch TV shows, and play video games without any visible issues. 

But, you can rightly claim that, say some forms of media can spark a temporary increase in aggression, because there's research to support that. You can rightly argue that media shapes our beliefs and values, because you can support that argument with examples. 

So, in terms of your argument, it's about not biting off more than you  can chew, and not making a claim or a prediction you can't defend with  research or verifiable anecdotes.


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## CrazyLee (Jul 28, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Ignoring this won't make it go away, though it's unfortunate that criticism of Anita is brushed aside as harassment.



Polite criticism is fine. Taking someone's arguments, explaining one by one why you think they are wrong, providing evidence and studies to try to prove your point is fine.

Threatening, harassment, violation of one's privacy and personal info, trolling, and stuff like that is not. It's immature, it's stupid. But of course none of that ever happened in the minds of the gamergaters. It's harder to admit that some people on one's side are being uncivilized because god forbid, then that makes one's position wrong somehow and makes the other side, the side that you're taking an extreme position against in typical tribalistic behavior, somehow right. Nope, easier to blame it on the other side making shit up rather than make your own side look wrong in any way at all.


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## Zuriak (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



CrazyLee said:


> Polite criticism is fine. Taking someone's arguments, explaining one by one why you think they are wrong, providing evidence and studies to try to prove your point is fine.
> 
> Threatening, harassment, violation of one's privacy and personal info, trolling, and stuff like that is not. It's immature, it's stupid. But of course none of that ever happened in the minds of the gamergaters. It's harder to admit that some people on one's side are being uncivilized because god forbid, then that makes one's position wrong somehow and makes the other side, the side that you're taking an extreme position against in typical tribalistic behavior, somehow right. Nope, easier to blame it on the other side making shit up rather than make your own side look wrong in any way at all.


You can blatantly lie if you want to, we've already admitted that there are the bad apples within GamerGate. Thanks for agreeing with me in the second part of your post (the majority, anyway) -- harassment and trolling is simply unacceptable *but* the SJWs and news media need to reexamine their position on this. It's been said from a reliable source that members of the media are afraid to speak out against these people lest they get harassed themselves. Additionally, to further prove you wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ih2OuqKXQ

Proof of a false flag operation by Gawker a few minutes in. There's a bunch more online if you want to look yourself, but it's horrible dishonest to use a few messages and emails in order to disregard criticism and what not. Put your blinders on and continue on your merry way, you're obviously not interested in an honest discussion.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> You can blatantly lie if you want to, we've already admitted that there are the bad apples within GamerGate. Thanks for agreeing with me in the second part of your post (the majority, anyway) -- harassment and trolling is simply unacceptable *but* the SJWs and news media need to reexamine their position on this. It's been said from a reliable source that members of the media are afraid to speak out against these people lest they get harassed themselves. Additionally, to further prove you wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ih2OuqKXQ
> 
> Proof of a false flag operation by Gawker a few minutes in. There's a bunch more online if you want to look yourself, but it's horrible dishonest to use a few messages and emails in order to disregard criticism and what not. Put your blinders on and continue on your merry way, you're obviously not interested in an honest discussion.


Don't use random YouTube basement dwellers as a source to back up your claims. Might as well use fucking Wikipedia while you're at it.


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## Zuriak (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Don't use random YouTube basement dwellers as a source to back up your claims. Might as well use fucking Wikipedia while you're at it.


http://i.imgur.com/ctDHjfG.jpg

>implying Sargon isn't reliable and disregarding him entirely because of your feelings
>implying Wikipedia isn't reliable with links to sources and page protection

You've already proven that you're only in here to troll and try to poison the well, so the speak. You don't need to keep convincing us of this, trust that we already understand.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/ctDHjfG.jpg
> 
> >implying Sargon isn't reliable and disregarding him entirely because of your feelings
> >implying Wikipedia isn't reliable with links to sources and page protection
> ...


I dunno how many times I have to say "source criticism" until someone gets it.


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## MalletFace (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Don't use random YouTube basement dwellers as a source to back up your claims. Might as well use fucking Wikipedia while you're at it.



While Sargon is indeed not a reliable source, mostly due to bias, your insult has no bearing on his reliability.

Wikipedia is an interesting case, and the issue of its reliability is complicated.

I've never had a teacher or professor that didn't feel it should not be used as a result of its reliability, though. They felt that most of the information was accurate and that most of the errors they've seen are in spelling and grammar. I believe it had something to do with encyclopedias and dictionaries being sources much of their education discouraged.

Edit:



Zuriak said:


> >implying Sargon isn't reliable and disregarding him entirely because of your feelings



While the insult was unrelated to his reliability, that the insult fails to prove it doesn't mean he is reliable.


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I confess Wikipedia was a poor example, it just randomly popped up in my mind. But my point remains that sources have to be legit, reliable and unbiased. If I wanted to convince someone I'd probably try to not use Wiki, though.


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## MalletFace (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I confess Wikipedia was a poor example, it just randomly popped up in my mind. But my point remains that sources have to be legit, reliable and unbiased. If I wanted to convince someone I'd probably try to not use Wiki, though.



In all honesty, I've not met a great number of people who could be convinced of anything that conflicted with an opinion they've held for over a year.

Whether a source is reliable or not can often not mean anything to a person if they feel strongly enough about a topic.


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## -Sliqq- (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I confess Wikipedia was a poor example, it just randomly popped up in my mind. But my point remains that sources have to be legit, reliable and unbiased. If I wanted to convince someone I'd probably try to not use Wiki, though.



It's pretty accurate actually. Everybody is watching the edits and who's doing them. A random person trying to change the work to something wrong will have it's problems.

They do not want opinions to be part of the Wikis at all. All they want is the information, not quarreling between users.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ten_Simple_Rules_for_Editing_Wikipedia


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## MalletFace (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Thread: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why wikipedia is a good resource


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## -Sliqq- (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> Thread: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why wikipedia is a good resource



Are you proud of me?


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## Kellie Gator (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> In all honesty, I've not met a great number of people who could be convinced of anything that conflicted with an opinion they've held for over a year.
> 
> Whether a source is reliable or not can often not mean anything to a person if they feel strongly enough about a topic.


I try to overcome such biases but I recognize that I'm a human being capable of flaws.

I kind of have a problem believe anything I read on the internet 100% to be honest. The internet is filled with so much shit that I choose to disregard anything unless it's from a proper source; not a YouTube ranter, not a blog, not a tumblr, not a reddit, not a right wing news website, heck probably not even a left wing news website (although I trust them more than the right-wing ones).

The internet can fool you, and I don't want to be fooled.


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## MalletFace (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I try to overcome such biases but I recognize that I'm a human being capable of flaws.
> 
> I kind of have a problem believe anything I read on the internet 100% to be honest. The internet is filled with so much shit that I choose to disregard anything unless it's from a proper source; not a YouTube ranter, not a blog, not a tumblr, not a reddit, not a right wing news website, heck probably not even a left wing news website (although I trust them more than the right-wing ones).
> 
> The internet can fool you, and I don't want to be fooled.



Having to deal with reliability sucks. To just twitch your nose and magically know if something is true would not suck.



-Sliqq- said:


> Are you proud of me?



Yes [SUP][_*citation needed*_][/SUP]


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ieono said:


> Well, you do perpetuate those things by mentioning them, especially on a platform that is widely viewed by the masses. Some would argue that many social issues still exist because they are given so much attention in society.



Yeah these issues would_ totally_ disappear if nobody disagreed with the lunacy. :V


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

down with gawker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ih2OuqKXQ


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

So apparently in Australia the Feminazis at ANZ Australia have made a policy to deliberately pay women more than men. Pay discrimination to "Offset the inequality".

So to be equal, we must deliberately give one side more support and attention than the other.

They've gone full Animal Farm on that one.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> So apparently in Australia the Feminazis at ANZ Australia have made a policy to deliberately pay women more than men. Pay discrimination to "Offset the inequality".
> 
> So to be equal, we must deliberately give one side more support and attention than the other.
> 
> They've gone full Animal Farm on that one.


 Insanity perpetuates.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> So apparently in Australia the Feminazis at ANZ Australia have made a policy to deliberately pay women more than men. Pay discrimination to "Offset the inequality".
> 
> So to be equal, we must deliberately give one side more support and attention than the other.
> 
> They've gone full Animal Farm on that one.


Huh. If only Australia cared about the gays that much. :V


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> So apparently in Australia the Feminazis at ANZ Australia have made a policy to deliberately pay women more than men. Pay discrimination to "Offset the inequality".
> 
> So to be equal, we must deliberately give one side more support and attention than the other.
> 
> They've gone full Animal Farm on that one.



Have they? I looked up the story and I see no mention of deliberately paying women more. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-29/women-working-more-paid-less-anz/6655714

_"ANZ planned to introduce superannuation contributions for up to two  years for staff returning from paid and unpaid parental leave and a  website with targeted financial advice for women." 

_


TheMetalVelocity said:


> Insanity perpetuates.



Actually I believe schwimm is mistaken. It looks like ANZ has discerned that women in full-time employment earn about a fifth less than men because of reduced flexibility, as a result of commitments to familial care. They have planned to start paying into staff members' [not specifically men, not specifically women] pension funds, when they return from periods of parental leave_, _because they think care should be rewarded, rather than leave carers at financial disadvantage in their old age.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> In all honesty, I've not met a great number of people who could be convinced of anything that conflicted with an opinion they've held for over a year.
> 
> Whether a source is reliable or not can often not mean anything to a person if they feel strongly enough about a topic.


Given the track record of GG's detractors, it does make sense for entities within the media to be afraid of said detractors lest they be distracted themselves. He specifically said he couldn't reveal the identity of the person, but did mention that they were from a notable media group. Honestly, everything should be questioned, but this one seems to hold water based upon the fact that its supporting evidence for the claim is factual.

So Kellie, what did you want proof on?


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Have they? I looked up the story and I see no mention of deliberately paying women more. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-29/women-working-more-paid-less-anz/6655714
> 
> _"ANZ planned to introduce superannuation contributions for up to two  years for staff returning from paid and unpaid parental leave and a  website with targeted financial advice for women." _
> 
> Actually I believe schwimm is mistaken. It looks like ANZ has discerned that women in full-time employment earn about a fifth less than men because of reduced flexibility, as a result of commitments to familial care. They have planned to start paying into staff members' [not specifically men, not specifically women] pension funds, when they return from periods of parental leave_, _because they think care should be rewarded, rather than leave carers at financial disadvantage in their old age.



https://www.facebook.com/ANZAustral...48404.208091002641679/845872498863523/?type=1

There's some hubbub on their facebook about it. Something about them giving a bonus to female employees to "fix" the "problem"

http://www.women.anz.com/content/dam/Women/Documents/pdf/ANZ-Womens-Report-July-2015.pdf

There's also this "women are paid less than men" tripe that they're _still_ trying to push. A bank that willingly misinterprets economic info despite countless debunks is in charge of people's money? Oh dear.


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

If all these women are so "strong and independent" why couldn't they fight male dominance ages ago?


----------



## Ley (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> If all these women are so "strong and independent" why couldn't they fight male dominance ages ago?



Did you drop your :V?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> https://www.facebook.com/ANZAustral...48404.208091002641679/845872498863523/?type=1
> 
> There's some hubbub on their facebook about it. Something about them giving a bonus to female employees to "fix" the "problem"
> 
> ...



edit: found it. http://www.women.anz.com/at-anz/we-are-bridging-the-super-gap

"ANZ will make an *additional $500* super contribution to every fixed-term *and permanent female employee each year* from 8 January 2016"

...yeah a bonus just for being a woman, rather than a man, is discriminatory.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ley said:


> Did you drop your :V?



no hes a republican


----------



## Ahzek M'kar (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Lol, who even cares about her anymore?


----------



## Ley (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> no hes a republican



I know republicans that can have the mental depth to understand feminism (not radical feminism) is still needed today. 

But still, ew. I would hate to live in that fantasy land. 


Anyways, Anita disappointed a ton of fucking feminists with the way she behaved. We're thinking- "great! someone who can be seen as a cultural icon for our cause!" But then.. doesn't even play them. No in depth reviews. She's nearly a caricature of what we'd love to have. I'd kill for another Eva Paron, or Betty Freidan, or Gloria Steinem. However, Malala is pretty fucking Cool, as is  Aung San Suu Kyi, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Oprah. I mean, I like the wave of actresses that are activists, but my favorite feminists are the ones that do powerful things around the world. However, these actresses and millionaires give women to be someone to aspire to, like Laverne Cox, Emma Watson, and Tina Fey. 

But we can all agree that death threats to any prominent woman are disgusting.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 30, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ley said:


> But we can all agree that death threats to any prominent woman are disgusting.


To anyone, really.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

radical feminists are not the minority anymore. the small minority of feminists who arent fucking insane men hating  cultural marxists  have denounced the name in favor of a true equality movement. egalitarianism. because if you focus on the rights of one sex and ignore the other. your not for equality are you? feminism really isn't needed in modern society. no wage gap, no patriarchy and no misogyny sorry. its just not a thing anymore. in fact there is more misandrist's and male bashing these days.


----------



## Ley (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Alright. I'm gonna take an honest crack at this. Thus far, everyone has been treating you and some other folks positng like a knuckle dragging idiot. One apt commenter said that folks will not change their line of thinking if you come into their house saying that they're stupid without base. I am choosing to believe no one has sat down and genuinely attempted to point out some things that you may consider so that you may possible change your position. This is obviously no longer about Anita and whatever she's prattling on about, but about the fact you and some other folks genuinely believe feminism is worthless and no longer needed in society at all- or even western society. I'm attempting this in such a way that is congested so that you can contest honestly word for word. I will even chicago cite the sources I used. 



ShioBear said:


> radical feminists are not the minority anymore.



Surprisingly, actually no. The problem that arises when folks believe this is that people.. okay, here's an example. Westboro Baptist Church. Really, any christian bigot. If I looked at the way WBC behaved, and looked at all the coverage they got an all the negative things these christian bigots were doing, if I followed your logic I would say "Radical Religion is mainstream and there are not many non gay-hating homophobic racist bigots in america, therefore Christians are terrible people."

but wait! Isn't that generalizing an entire group of humans with differing opinions and backgrounds  based on perception and relying on the media to tell you what to believe? Its the same way with feminism. But why? How come feminism has more crap on it than the black power movement, the gay pride movement, and other movements looked down on during history? I would argue, historically, women's rights have been the longest 'movement' in human history. The inequality between women and men started much, much longer than all of these (still important and relevant) movements. I am sticking predominantly in western society, especially because I am uneducated in eastern feminisism and I try not to talk about things I don't know about. When even the *bible *was made, woman was subservient to man. Here are some classic hallmark worthy quotes from the bible. [SUP]1,2,3 [/SUP]

_"Timothy 2:11-15 ESV_
_Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearingâ€”if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."

__"Corinthians 14:34 ESV     _
_The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."

__"Genesis 3:16 ESV _
_To the woman he said, â€œI will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.â€_

But that book was written three thousand years ago and also I don't believe in that because it is so outdated! Yes, that is the point! You see, even three thousand years ago, women werent' seen as equals. It has had to claw its way up to 2015 to get here, and on its way, many different kinds of feminism have erupted. Each and every one of those different movements are still valid. [4] Many feminists are actually calling the feminists you know as "Separatists"[5]. This is the most radical, life changing, and ugly version of feminsm that gets the biggest spotlight because it can be congested into a "Women hate men" movement. Men instead of educating themselves will take a personal offense of any feminist they meet because they didn't bother to research well.. anything. If they took the time to let down their walls and actually _see _the world around them, they would not believe the amount of awful sexisim and misogyny that happens daily. If you were part of a group that was oppressed for literally thousands of years, wouldn't you get angry too? This is the basic premise of the dictionary definition of radical feminsim[4]- where something RADICAL needs to happen in order for society to turn around from the nose dive it has steadily taken in certain areas. 

There are many waves of feminism. Third wave feminism is the reaction to the fact that second wave feminism failed to do what it set out to do because it was passive.[6]. Third Wave feminism now means to be ACTIVE! To be loud and angry because singing peacefully hasn't cut it. If we looked at history, first wave feminism was fairly metal. Nowadays its filled with slackivism and tumblerites who desperately want to be a part of something. These airheads are the folks who have given us a bad name- however, because it has been culturally significant to shit on the feelings of women, I believe feminism gets the baddest rap because its very easy to hate a woman.[8][9] Subreddit communities like TheRedPill have perversed this idea to the point of some folks straight up thinking they can rape a woman because that is what they're entitled to. TheBluePill continuously points out these things and opposes them. ExRedPill are for folks who used to believe, but then became educated. 

this is getting long. What I would like for you to do is genuinely sit down and evaluate how the media portrays women and men. The closest exampe I can give you to stay on topic is Anita S's whole deal. Why does she bitch about video games? Video games have historically been kind of.. well, sexist.[10][11] The largest proponent to this argument is when we look at how women are dressed in video games vs how men are dressed in video games. A good example is Chris Redfied and Sheva in Resident evil five. Look at this picture. And this one. Why is chris decked out in good gear to fight murderous infected/urobouros, and Sheva is wearing a titty bearing fucking tank top? Why does she have high heels on? I want you to ask these questions about nearly every female character in video games. "Why is it a crime to want women to be sexy?!" because that's all there is. There is literally so many iterations of a slim, buxom, "sexy badass" woman that's just there for eyecandy. This is wrong. I want to be able to play a video game character that isn't scantily clad or ridiculously dressed because so many gamers would prefer women to be sexy than useful. This is a legitmate criticism. I want to see a character that looks like me, or even at least well prepared. All video game women are beautiful. Hell, look at the Witches from fucking L4D! They're in their underwear! An undead, zombie thing is sexy. How messed up is that?

Now apply this to nearly everything. A woman's body has been portrayed to sell. Please look at ads around you. Please look at how AXE body spray and other manly ads are marketed towards you. Many women are accessories. Society places value on women who are sexy, but not sexual, fun, but not too fun, and the title is super stressed on the 'cool girlfriend' part. Much of society treats women to be accessories, useless when they are ugly, fat, or opnionated. Did you notice this is what many casual men call feminists? Ugly, fat, and opinionated? These are the insults given to women for saying things that go against the grain. 



> the small minority of feminists who arent fucking insane men hating  cultural marxists  have denounced the name in favor of a true equality movement. egalitarianism. because if you focus on the rights of one sex and ignore the other.



See, the issue wiht egalitarianism is that they believe all people are equal.[12] This is fine and dandy and all, but egalitarianism dosen't recognize the fact that as of right now, women aren't equal.[13] But Ley, literally the point of egalitarianism is that everyone is equal! Not so, red angry text. Feminism is the belief that women need to be equal to men because curently, they are not. You may deny this, but because you are a man, there are things you honestly may not notice just by fact you're a guy. Take it this way: I am a biracial woman, in a serious long term relationship with a white man. We have recently visited several car dealerships because I am interested in buying a car. Would you like to know how that went? Literally every car dealer was a guy, and nearly every single one addressed Jake first. Not me. Him. He would conistently say "This car is for her", yet all the important questions were still directed at him. One time, I went alone. Would you like to know what happened? I was left alone for almost 30 minutes because no one bothered to talk to me. Once jake showed up, someone immediately began speaking.. to him. This infuriated me. Feminism would aim, in this instance, to perpetuate the idea that women know just as much about cars as men do. 

But Ley! Feminism doesn't help men! Actually, yes!![14][15]

I'll make this part brief. 
- Women get preference in child custody cases! That is because the patriarchy believes that women are by default better with children by virtue they are women. The patriarchy in this case harms you because society doesn't believe you would be a good father. 
- People do not believe in Male Rape! That is because the patriarchy belives women are to be submissive and sexaually a) inexperienced, b) innocent, or c) all of the above. The patriarchy permits the idea that women are weak and useless, and that only men can rape because they are strong and sexual. This is why the 'responsibility' of the rape falls upon the victim. As in, instead of teaching men not to rape (as in, teaching better ideas of consent and not literally saying 'hey son, don't rape' over the sunday table), they blame the woman. What she's wearing, where she was, what she was doing. A woman should be able to wear whatever she wants, wherever she wants, without fear of getting raped or sexually assaulted. But that's showing off the goods? Who wouldn't want any? Angry Red Text, there are dogs better trained when their owner says 'NO' than some men. Why do yourself the disservice to genuinely believe you cannot control your actions? Do you genuinely believe you'll become a mindless, rabid animal and rape a woman because she's not wearing a bra and wearing a sheer tshirt? 
- Women have it easy! They don't have to suffer from (The draft/working more dangerous jobs/high rate of male suicide). Also no! This is because the patriarchy[16] believes that men are a) strong b) emotionless c) muscular d)providers and e) expendable. The patriarchy has proven time and time again that men aren't allowed to feel or have feelings or discuss their feelings because they would be called a gay, a fag, a pussy, bitch, cunt, etc etc. Most of the insults dedicated towards feminine men are all ugly words for a woman. The biggest insult you can give to a man is calling him a woman, or telling a man he has a vagina. The patriachy hammers it in your head that you are a mindless sex beast who deserves a woman who submits to you, that you're supposed to be musclar and you're only interested in cars, beers, and titties. You communicate in grunts and you're expected to be the head of household and breadwinner. You're expected to be someone powerful, a laywer, a doctor, etc. You cannot pursue anything even remotely feminine because your status of a man automatically decreases. This is the largest point and crux of the argument that men don't benefit from feminism. They do!

Feminism benefits men because it does away with BOTH gender binaries and sexism. If allowed, feminism can destroy the notion that men cant be emotional and women can't be strong. Feminism would truly raise the sexes to be equal because no only does feminism aim to give the benefits of being a man to woman, it also gives the benefits of being a woman to a man that will erase the need for feminism. Obviously, this would be in a utopia, but feminism can still aim for this goal because it is a worthy goal. 

I'll give you another example: My boyfriend comes from a white bread family in Ohio. Like, seriously, on-abc-channel-as-the-ideal-family white family. And he was given all of that masculine bullshit. "Real men don't cry", "Men don't share their feelings", "Men need to deal". Do you know what this has resulted in? Serious body issues. Because he's not thin, with abs I can grate cheese on, he's not 'manly enough'. That he reads and likes tar wars and stuff, he's a friendless nerd. The constant pressure for men to be social butterflies, get all the ladies, etc etc earned him to be bullied all through school because the enjoyment of reading, art, and music was 'feminine'. Its why he's this.. caricature of a man. He bought a fucking truck he can't afford because its manly. He doesn't truly talk about how he feels because he isn't manly. He only wears jeans, shirts, and slakcs in blue,black and green because any other hting is girly. Even basic hygiene is girly. I'll suggest to him acne cream, daily face washes, pomade to control his unruly hair, and its all 'unmanly'

Thankfully in the last two years, I have whitted him down. He has been able to cry around me a couple times. He's been honestly sharing his feelings. He'll be going to a therapist this fall to deal with his serious masculinity issues and be able to healthily communicate without like.. 'sparing' my feelings. He won't call me out on my shit because ex girlfriends had him by the nads. They contorlled him with sex. For him, it was better to be emotionally abused and get sex from a hot, skinny blonde than it was to respect himself and his feelings. He has had issues in the past saying no to me during sex. At one point, I nearly took advantage of him until I noticed him shaking. I immediately stopped and he said he didn't want it. "Why didn't you tell me?" "Because I was afraid you would think I was a loser."

This is the result of the patriarchy. A bunch of young, 20 something men who are painfully lonely because they aren't achieving fitting into a tiny box made for them. Suicide rates are at an all time high for men because they don't fucking talk about their feelings. No one LETS them talk about their feelings. These are issues that would disappear/die out if feminism were allowed to take over. Radical feminism belives a dramatic cultural shift into this thinking will help everyone.

Now, just because I wrote a lot about men having serious issues with themselves as the result of the patriarchy completely does not cover the fact that women have it worse. Hell, rape threats are directed to every woman in prominent media. When someone says "Its the internet, no one should take it seriously", do they honestly ignore that men don't get rape threats that oftne? That if a woman dares to dissent, they need to be raped to be put in their place? This idea of thinking is seriously damaging to me AND you. It makes me at risk for being raped purely because I exist, and it makes you out to be some mindless penis monster. That isn't fair to both of us. A woman runs the risk of being raped because she turns down a man. A woman is at risk for sexual assault just by walking down the street while disgusting things are called out to her. So while yes, while men benefit rom feminism _they are not the point. THEY ARE NOT THE SUBJECT OF FEMINISM. 

_The point of feminism, in my view, is that I need to be at the socioeconomical, political, and power standpoint of the man. In achieving this goal, the secondary benefit happens to man. The main point of feminism is to benefit woman so that they aren't killed for rejecting a man. The second side effect of feminism will that men will be able to enjoy the more "Feminine" things in life without fear of beating. This is where feminism and egalitarianism differ, especially because the latter ignores the struggles women have had to face to make it to where we are now.. which isn't very good in 2015. Kasich[17] in Ohio would prefer me to not have sex and not get an abortion even if my life depended on it. Kasich doesn't want me to have birth control, even if its because I pass out from blood loss.  Kasich genuinely believes his beliefs trump a woman's right to autonomy. And that is wrong. 

This is why we need feminism. 





> feminism really isn't needed in modern society. no wage gap, no patriarchy and no misogyny sorry. its just not a thing anymore. in fact there is more misandrist's and male bashing these days.


.
Feminism is needed in modern society to protect both women and men, but the way feminism works is that it helps women directly. The side effect of feminism would help men, which is why more and more men need to support it. I would argue egalitarianism is a lazy way to say you support the equality of sexes while ignoring that there is a serious disparity between the two. There have been multiple studies that the wage gap still exists, but it IS steadily declining.[18] It, however, still is there in many countries and even occupations. The patriarchy is real, you just may not notice it because you are in a better position to not see it. 

What you see in male bashing and etc is that women are angry. I will not deny that. We are! We're angry we aren't being taken seirously, we're angry our rights are being deteriorated, and we're really fucking pissed that in 2015, the bible belt has diminished us to fucking brood mares, and we can't even buy a car without being treated as the lesser sex. We're angry, and we're justifiably angry. How we go about expressing this anger varies, but I must remind you of my main point. There are extremists in every group. Its just that the feminist ones are actually taken seriously because its still a societal attitude to dislike women. Folks know that not all christains are like the WBC. Folks need to know that not all feminists are like the separitists that get the most media. Please apply the logic you use with WBC and apply them to feminism. 

In summation, I urge you to consider what I wrote. If you still choose to ignore it, I won't lie and say that's fine. I would be sad that a genuine attempt to reason with you fell on deaf ears. There are things that you cannot see. But, just because you cannot see them, doesn't always mean that it isn't real. 

â€œIdeally, what should be said to every child, repeatedly, throughout his or her school life is something like this: 'You are in the process of being indoctrinated. We have not yet evolved a system of education that is not a system of indoctrination. We are sorry, but it is the best we can do. What you are being taught here is an amalgam of current prejudice and the choices of this particular culture. The slightest look at history will show how impermanent these must be. You are being taught by people who have been able to accommodate themselves to a regime of thought laid down by their predecessors. It is a self-perpetuating system. Those of you who are more robust and individual than others will be encouraged to leave and find ways of educating yourself â€” educating your own judgements. Those that stay must remember, always, and all the time, that they are being moulded and patterned to fit into the narrow and particular needs of this particular society.â€  - Doris Lessing


___________________
_1. "The Bible Told Me so." FreeThoughtPedia. March 6, 2013. Accessed July 31, 2015.
2. "34 Bible Verses about The Man Being The Head Of The House." What Does the Bible Say About The Man Being The Head Of The House? Accessed July 31, 2015. 
3. The Holy Bible, New International Version. Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1984.
4. Kurram, Shanzeh. "Feminism: What It Is and Why It's Still Important | SPARK Movement." SPARK Movement. November 14, 2012. Accessed July 31, 2015.
5. "Separatist Feminism." Wikipedia. Accessed July 31, 2015.
6. Krolokke, Charlotte; Sorensen, Anne Scott (2005). "Three Waves of Feminism: From Suffragettes to Grrls". Gender Communication Theories and Analyses: From Silence to Performance.
7. "First Wave Feminsim." Wikipedia. Accessed July 31, 2015.
8. "Feminism." Wikipedia. Accessed July 31, 2015.
8. "Wong, David. "5 Ways Modern Men Are Trained to Hate Women: Update." Cracked.com. March 27, 2012. Accessed July 31, 2015.
9. "Hill, Kevin. "Why Do Misogynists Hate Women?" Quora. April 10, 2012. Accessed July 31, 2015."
10. "Sexism in Video games." Wikipedia. Accessed July 31, 2015.
11. American Enterprise Institute, â€œAre video games sexist?,â€ Factual Feminist video, 6:34. Accessed July 31, 2015.
12. "Egalitarianism." Wikipedia, Accessed July 31, 2015.
13. Wielchuda, AurÃ©lie. "Why I Call Myself a Feminist and Not an Egalitarian." USI. November 5, 2014. Accessed July 31, 2015.
14. "How Feminism (and NOW) Have Helped Men." National Organization for Women. June 15, 2014. Accessed July 31, 2015.
15. Kreitler, Katy. "Why Men Need Feminism Too (Really, You Do!)." Everyday Feminism. August 20, 2012. Accessed July 31, 2015.
16. "Patriarchy." Wikipedia. Accessed July 31 2015
17. Naveh, Ariel. "Sharing Stories Inspiring Change." To Governor John Kasich, "Pro-Life" = Anti Women. July 4, 2014. Accessed July 31, 2015.
18. The Gender Pay Gap, Stanford University

Further Reading:
Lucia-Hoagland, Sarah and Penelope, Julia. For Lesbians Only: A Separatist Anthology. Onlywomen Press, Ltd. (1988)
Why choices are not always feminist
Why we still need Feminism
You don't Hate Feminism, you just don't understand it
Men and Feminism_


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'll take you on. http://i.imgur.com/uKHGPJZ.png

Firstly I'd like to state that your use of red text to assume responses and ideas by you opposition is disingenuous to this conversation. Engage or don't, never assume. Secondly, I've got to commend you on your verbosity, but it's tinged with dishonesty.



Ley said:


> Alright. I'm gonna take an honest crack at this. Thus far, everyone has been treating you and some other folks positng like a knuckle dragging idiot. One apt commenter said that folks will not change their line of thinking if you come into their house saying that they're stupid without base. I am choosing to believe no one has sat down and genuinely attempted to point out some things that you may consider so that you may possible change your position. This is obviously no longer about Anita and whatever she's prattling on about, but about the fact you and some other folks genuinely believe feminism is worthless and no longer needed in society at all- or even western society. I'm attempting this in such a way that is congested so that you can contest honestly word for word. I will even chicago cite the sources I used.


It really isn't needed. Please name one right that men have that women do not possess.





Ley said:


> Surprisingly, actually no. The problem that arises when folks believe this is that people.. okay, here's an example. Westboro Baptist Church. Really, any christian bigot. If I looked at the way WBC behaved, and looked at all the coverage they got an all the negative things these christian bigots were doing, if I followed your logic I would say "Radical Religion is mainstream and there are not many non gay-hating homophobic racist bigots in america, therefore Christians are terrible people."
> 
> but wait! Isn't that generalizing an entire group of humans with differing opinions and backgrounds  based on perception and relying on the media to tell you what to believe? Its the same way with feminism. But why? How come feminism has more crap on it than the black power movement, the gay pride movement, and other movements looked down on during history? I would argue, historically, women's rights have been the longest 'movement' in human history. The inequality between women and men started much, much longer than all of these (still important and relevant) movements. I am sticking predominantly in western society, especially because I am uneducated in eastern feminisism and I try not to talk about things I don't know about. When even the *bible *was made, woman was subservient to man. Here are some classic hallmark worthy quotes from the bible. [SUP]1,2,3 [/SUP]
> 
> ...


Yes, history was patriarchal. For the record, I find it you're pointing out the tiny, TINY minority that is Westboro Baptist Church and not, say, Shariah Law. But here int he first world, Feminism now is actually pushing for EXTRA rights and protections. I can cough up multiple sources for this if you would like.



Ley said:


> There are many waves of feminism. Third wave feminism is the reaction to the fact that second wave feminism failed to do what it set out to do because it was passive.[6]. Third Wave feminism now means to be ACTIVE! To be loud and angry because singing peacefully hasn't cut it. If we looked at history, first wave feminism was fairly metal. Nowadays its filled with slackivism and tumblerites who desperately want to be a part of something. These airheads are the folks who have given us a bad name- however, because it has been culturally significant to shit on the feelings of women, I believe feminism gets the baddest rap because its very easy to hate a woman.[8][9] Subreddit communities like TheRedPill have perversed this idea to the point of some folks straight up thinking they can rape a woman because that is what they're entitled to. TheBluePill continuously points out these things and opposes them. ExRedPill are for folks who used to believe, but then became educated.
> 
> this is getting long. What I would like for you to do is genuinely sit down and evaluate how the media portrays women and men. The closest exampe I can give you to stay on topic is Anita S's whole deal. Why does she bitch about video games? Video games have historically been kind of.. well, sexist.[10][11] The largest proponent to this argument is when we look at how women are dressed in video games vs how men are dressed in video games. A good example is Chris Redfied and Sheva in Resident evil five. Look at this picture. And this one. Why is chris decked out in good gear to fight murderous infected/urobouros, and Sheva is wearing a titty bearing fucking tank top? Why does she have high heels on? I want you to ask these questions about nearly every female character in video games. "Why is it a crime to want women to be sexy?!" because that's all there is. There is literally so many iterations of a slim, buxom, "sexy badass" woman that's just there for eyecandy. This is wrong. I want to be able to play a video game character that isn't scantily clad or ridiculously dressed because so many gamers would prefer women to be sexy than useful. This is a legitmate criticism. I want to see a character that looks like me, or even at least well prepared. All video game women are beautiful. Hell, look at the Witches from fucking L4D! They're in their underwear! An undead, zombie thing is sexy. How messed up is that?
> 
> Now apply this to nearly everything. A woman's body has been portrayed to sell. Please look at ads around you. Please look at how AXE body spray and other manly ads are marketed towards you. Many women are accessories. Society places value on women who are sexy, but not sexual, fun, but not too fun, and the title is super stressed on the 'cool girlfriend' part. Much of society treats women to be accessories, useless when they are ugly, fat, or opnionated. Did you notice this is what many casual men call feminists? Ugly, fat, and opinionated? These are the insults given to women for saying things that go against the grain.


You have equal rights under the law. There's no need to be angry and scream and shout, that's how you bandwagon and cause trouble. You also don't seem to understand The Red Pill. Do you realize that their whole game plan is pointing out the potential pitfalls of marriage and what not? I'd like to see a source on claiming they can rape because they deserve it.

And what's wrong with having characters that are sexually appealing? It's just design and has no bearing on real life. I see ads and representations of ideal men in games and on television all the time and I don't get mad at the world because I'm not like them. This sounds like projection.




Ley said:


> See, the issue wiht egalitarianism is that they believe all people are equal.[12] This is fine and dandy and all, but egalitarianism dosen't recognize the fact that as of right now, women aren't equal.[13] But Ley, literally the point of egalitarianism is that everyone is equal! Not so, red angry text. Feminism is the belief that women need to be equal to men because curently, they are not. You may deny this, but because you are a man, there are things you honestly may not notice just by fact you're a guy. Take it this way: I am a biracial woman, in a serious long term relationship with a white man. We have recently visited several car dealerships because I am interested in buying a car. Would you like to know how that went? Literally every car dealer was a guy, and nearly every single one addressed Jake first. Not me. Him. He would conistently say "This car is for her", yet all the important questions were still directed at him. One time, I went alone. Would you like to know what happened? I was left alone for almost 30 minutes because no one bothered to talk to me. Once jake showed up, someone immediately began speaking.. to him. This infuriated me. Feminism would aim, in this instance, to perpetuate the idea that women know just as much about cars as men do.
> 
> But Ley! Feminism doesn't help men! Actually, yes!![14][15]
> 
> ...


I'd like to be an egalitarian myself, but my nature as a creature of community and groupism lends me to unable be truly egalitarian.

And I agree that women should not have the privileges that they do in certain cases: child custody, reduced prison sentences, having reduced physical qualifications for physically demanding jobs, etc. I also agree that men are not and should not be stone pillars of non-emotion. But they shouldn't be emotional either. Unsurprisingly, men and women think, approach and broach issues differently. We do not make these arguments and you're pulling them out of your ass.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

*[Broken up because it was too long for the website to process]*



Ley said:


> I'll give you another example: My boyfriend comes from a white bread family in Ohio. Like, seriously, on-abc-channel-as-the-ideal-family white family. And he was given all of that masculine bullshit. "Real men don't cry", "Men don't share their feelings", "Men need to deal". Do you know what this has resulted in? Serious body issues. Because he's not thin, with abs I can grate cheese on, he's not 'manly enough'. That he reads and likes tar wars and stuff, he's a friendless nerd. The constant pressure for men to be social butterflies, get all the ladies, etc etc earned him to be bullied all through school because the enjoyment of reading, art, and music was 'feminine'. Its why he's this.. caricature of a man. He bought a fucking truck he can't afford because its manly. He doesn't truly talk about how he feels because he isn't manly. He only wears jeans, shirts, and slakcs in blue,black and green because any other hting is girly. Even basic hygiene is girly. I'll suggest to him acne cream, daily face washes, pomade to control his unruly hair, and its all 'unmanly'
> 
> Thankfully in the last two years, I have whitted him down. He has been able to cry around me a couple times. He's been honestly sharing his feelings. He'll be going to a therapist this fall to deal with his serious masculinity issues and be able to healthily communicate without like.. 'sparing' my feelings. He won't call me out on my shit because ex girlfriends had him by the nads. They contorlled him with sex. For him, it was better to be emotionally abused and get sex from a hot, skinny blonde than it was to respect himself and his feelings. He has had issues in the past saying no to me during sex. At one point, I nearly took advantage of him until I noticed him shaking. I immediately stopped and he said he didn't want it. "Why didn't you tell me?" "Because I was afraid you would think I was a loser."


Sounds like your boyfriend is the problem here. I've dropped partners for not taking care of their hygiene, and I have a hard time believing this anecdote about him.



Ley said:


> This is the result of the patriarchy. A bunch of young, 20 something men who are painfully lonely because they aren't achieving fitting into a tiny box made for them. Suicide rates are at an all time high for men because they don't fucking talk about their feelings. No one LETS them talk about their feelings. These are issues that would disappear/die out if feminism were allowed to take over. Radical feminism belives a dramatic cultural shift into this thinking will help everyone.


Feminism is not a healthy environment for men, especially when its proponents hold up male tears cups and don't give a shit about us.



Ley said:


> Now, just because I wrote a lot about men having serious issues with themselves as the result of the patriarchy completely does not cover the fact that women have it worse. Hell, rape threats are directed to every woman in prominent media. When someone says "Its the internet, no one should take it seriously", do they honestly ignore that men don't get rape threats that oftne? That if a woman dares to dissent, they need to be raped to be put in their place? This idea of thinking is seriously damaging to me AND you. It makes me at risk for being raped purely because I exist, and it makes you out to be some mindless penis monster. That isn't fair to both of us. A woman runs the risk of being raped because she turns down a man. A woman is at risk for sexual assault just by walking down the street while disgusting things are called out to her. So while yes, while men benefit rom feminism _they are not the point. THEY ARE NOT THE SUBJECT OF FEMINISM.
> 
> _The point of feminism, in my view, is that I need to be at the socioeconomical, political, and power standpoint of the man. In achieving this goal, the secondary benefit happens to man. The main point of feminism is to benefit woman so that they aren't killed for rejecting a man. The second side effect of feminism will that men will be able to enjoy the more "Feminine" things in life without fear of beating. This is where feminism and egalitarianism differ, especially because the latter ignores the struggles women have had to face to make it to where we are now.. which isn't very good in 2015. Kasich[17] in Ohio would prefer me to not have sex and not get an abortion even if my life depended on it. Kasich doesn't want me to have birth control, even if its because I pass out from blood loss. Kasich genuinely believes his beliefs trump a woman's right to autonomy. And that is wrong.
> 
> This is why we need feminism.


Questionable threats of rape, but ANY kind of threats is not tolerated, no matter who it's to. I'm sorry some prominent women were sent angry messages but many prominent figures get these sorts of messages as well. False flags have been proven to exist on boths sides of this debate. However, calling someone a cunt or verbally dismantling their arguments is NOT harassment. Someone called you an angry word, get over it.

Additionally, Feminism by definition is benefiting women. That is it's literal definition. This is why men like myself feel threatened by Feminism and flock to the grounds of egalitarianism because it by definition does not help us. I would like to see men and women treated equally under the law, I'm sorry you don't seek the same.




Ley said:


> Feminism is needed in modern society to protect both women and men, but the way feminism works is that it helps women directly. The side effect of feminism would help men, which is why more and more men need to support it. I would argue egalitarianism is a lazy way to say you support the equality of sexes while ignoring that there is a serious disparity between the two. There have been multiple studies that the wage gap still exists, but it IS steadily declining.[18] It, however, still is there in many countries and even occupations. The patriarchy is real, you just may not notice it because you are in a better position to not see it.
> 
> What you see in male bashing and etc is that women are angry. I will not deny that. We are! We're angry we aren't being taken seirously, we're angry our rights are being deteriorated, and we're really fucking pissed that in 2015, the bible belt has diminished us to fucking brood mares, and we can't even buy a car without being treated as the lesser sex. We're angry, and we're justifiably angry. How we go about expressing this anger varies, but I must remind you of my main point. There are extremists in every group. Its just that the feminist ones are actually taken seriously because its still a societal attitude to dislike women. Folks know that not all christains are like the WBC. Folks need to know that not all feminists are like the separitists that get the most media. Please apply the logic you use with WBC and apply them to feminism.
> 
> ...


Yes, there are inequalities and I would like to see these rectified. Who needs Women's Night anyway? And no, there is no noticeable wage gap when you account for all the variables and don't cherry pick the ones you want. In some cases, women makes more than men. On other cases, men make more than women. These are marginal gains and don't matter too much on a grand scale. n academia, men are actually falling behind, In fact, in a recent case where an effort was made to help boys, the news media ands feminists blew up about it and got a girl into a class meant to help her opposite gender, quoting that is was discrimination.

That's pretty much all I have to say. I can readily provide sources if pressed. But to sum up mt thoughts: I've no interest in Feminism's ongoing activities in the first world and would actually oppose it because in some cases it seeks special benefits and treatment for women; conjuncted with the SJW movement, it becomes especially dangerous when you have a man in Canada on trial for disagreeing with a Feminist.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ahzek M'kar said:


> Lol, who even cares about her anymore?


Dude, this thread's over 50 pages, clearly people are still having man-periods about her.



Ley said:


> But we can all agree that death threats to any prominent woman are disgusting.


Actually, no, people keep denying, dismissing downplaying the harassment and threats she's getting.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Actually, no, people keep denying, dismissing downplaying the harassment and threats she's getting.


Because it's being used as a "Help! I'm being harassed!" sort of shield to discredit gamers. There's a reason we're pointing out that every other major player has been harassed. You should take a look on Twitter to see the SJWs in action, they're really making a name for themselves.

Then again I keep forgetting you're intentionally being dishonest.


----------



## Ley (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I'll take you on. http://i.imgur.com/uKHGPJZ.png
> 
> 
> > A) I wasn't talking to you. B) Whenever you post stuff like this, I immediately know that this is a fun game for you, or that you won't take this discussion with sincerity and an open mind. You immediately walk in with this BS attitude that many dissenters of Feminism have, which is the equivalent of childishly plugging your ears and humming.  Nearly all of your responses don't even touch upon many valid points I made, and your touting of "I'll provide sources if you want me to" lead me to believe you couldn't find nonbiased, reputable ones, or too lazy to do so. But by all means, find your sources. You really should have done that from the start if you wanted to be taken seriously instead of another chump who wants to play 'lets chop the feminist' or whatever. Like, you could have entered this with just the below quote. The addition of the above picture automatically leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I'll still continue with impressive patience because why the hell not? Its 5:30 am and I have nothing to do 'till the moving truck gets here.
> ...


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Because it's being used as a "Help! I'm being harassed!" sort of shield to discredit gamers. There's a reason we're pointing out that every other major player has been harassed. You should take a look on Twitter to see the SJWs in action, they're really making a name for themselves.
> 
> Then again I keep forgetting you're intentionally being dishonest.


I don't know of a single gamergater that had to flee their homes or require police protection.

That and while a lot of gamers face harassment, it's only women who face gendered and sexual harassment. All harassment is bad but the harassment against Anita and similar people is very specific and directed and not just a case "I hate you because you're an idiot".

Personally all I ever ask of gamergaters is to do something about the harassment in their own movement rather than look away and say "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME". That's cowardly.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

What about slutty hoop earring bitch?


----------



## Naesaki (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Its kind of funny that this whole thing would have stopped like 30+ pages ago if certain individuals on both sides would just stop talking, as much as each side in here wants to educate the other, both sides are so set in their ways that you aren't going to change any opinions, you aren't going to educate each other because you are just reinforcing each others opinions as to why the opposite site is bad.

This is just a never ending headache at this point.


----------



## Ilmarinen (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't know why do you care so much about internet people complaining in the internet about internet problems.
Waste of time.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ley said:


> I'll make this part brief.



Lies. D:



@ ley's comments in general, few people will bother to read those long monologues, although I have.
It isn't necessary to state that you 'referenced this wikipedia page on the 31st of july'..._no shit_ that you looked up the source link on the same day that you made the post.
It merely makes it look like you're trying to pretend to be academic, and it shows quite badly. 

While I agree with many of the sentiments in the post, it was so patronising  and condescending that I _wish _I was on the other side. :\


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

well shit Zuriak owned your ass i dont even have to say anything XD * bad ass bear high five*


----------



## Derin Darkpaw (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

God times like this is when I really wish I could just talk to people.  I always have problems getting my ideas across and having a real discussion through text.

First off Ley I want to say I generally agree with what you outlined in your post.  There are many ways in which we as a society do not treat women equally and we should strive to fix those things.  Also you are right many people don't realize that there are a number of politicians currently doing everything in there power to curtail the rights women have worked hard to achieve.  Such as access to abortion and birth control.  Also the way women are predominantly portrayed in various media as sexual objects is a problem that needs to be addressed.

However some things I disagree with you on.  The first among those is primarily a matter of language but I feel its is important to discuss because how we label problems can change the methods we use to address those problems.  I have never liked the term patriarchy in the manner it is used by the Feminist movement.  For me at least it conjures this image of a group of men specifically getting together to make these decisions.  While in some cases, such as the aforementioned harsher government restrictions on abortion and birth control, this is the case.  In many of the problems you outlined it is not.  There is no group of men dictating down from on high that car salesmen should only approach men, that women in video games must be portrayed as sex objects, that fathers must tell their sons to never show emotion, or that men should be viewed as disposable resources for labor and war.  I am not saying that these problems don't exist just that their root cause is one of societal and cultural origin rather then governmental.  I feel it is important to properly recognize where these problems originate from because that fundamentally changes how one would approach addressing them.

The second issue I have is you say that outright that men are not the subject of Feminism but, and please correct me if I have misjudged here, you seem dismissive of movements designed to specifically address these male issues.  Which brings me to my next big point here.



Kellie Gator said:


> Personally all I ever ask of gamergaters is to do something about the harassment in their own movement rather than look away and say "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME". That's cowardly.



I have seen this sentiment time and time again from many feminists and SJWs on this site and others.  In regards to not just gamergate but other movements such as MRAs.  Where as we are expected to simply ignore the extreme feminists because they don't represent the movement at the same time gamergate and MRAs are constantly being judged as if the actions of their worst members determine the group as a whole.  If people are expected to forgive and look past the worst Feminism has to offer then its only fair to expect the same treatment in turn.


----------



## Zuriak (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'll respond to you tonight, Ley, but I have to say this for the mean time:

1) I AM taking you on. Call me childish if you like, that's your choice.
2) I can and will provided sources for the things I say.
3) Funny how you accuse me of ad hominem and of using "thinly veiled insults" because your two posts are riddled with them as well.
4) You repeatedly accuse me of half baked thought, of using little thought at all. You can be argumentative without being condescending to the extreme.

Sit tight, I'll deal with you in due time.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Derin Darkpaw said:


> I have seen this sentiment time and time again from many feminists and SJWs on this site and others.  In regards to not just gamergate but other movements such as MRAs.  Where as we are expected to simply ignore the extreme feminists because they don't represent the movement at the same time gamergate and MRAs are constantly being judged as if the actions of their worst members determine the group as a whole.  If people are expected to forgive and look past the worst Feminism has to offer then its only fair to expect the same treatment in turn.


I can't speak for other feminists but I don't expect anyone to ignore militant feminists. Extremists are extremists.

My point remains the same, though, all I ever want is for gamergaters to do something about their bad eggs.

But they never do. Gee, it's almost as if GG wants people to be harassed or are, at the very least, apathetic to it happening.

Same with MRAs, but in MRAs that might be because the majority of MRA are extremists. Or maybe the civil rights group Southern Poverty Law Center are part of the global jewish zionist feminist agenda.

MRAs, too, fail to acknowledge and condemn the extremists, the terrorists who kill women for being women, like Elliot Rodger (not an MRA but MRAs sure as fuck dismissed his misogyny rather than condemning it) and many others.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Elliott Roger shot more men than women. He was just your typical bitter virgin that projected his self-hatred onto everyone else.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Elliott Roger shot more men than women.


But they weren't his intended target.

See, you're exactly what I'm fucking talking about it. For fuck's sakes.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> But they weren't his intended target.
> 
> See, you're exactly what I'm fucking talking about it. For fuck's sakes.



I dunno, when you aim a gun, the bullet usually goes towards what you're aiming at. I have guns, so I can confirm this.

But I suppose things said and done by feminists don't define feminism, but things said and done by lone wackjobs define MRA.

Kinda like how the countless islamic terrorists don't define islam, but the oslo shooting defines the right wing.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> I dunno, when you aim a gun, the bullet usually goes towards what you're aiming at.


Do you seriously think he was some kind of marksman?

Does the possibility of missing or accidentally hitting the wrong person even register for you?


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Do you seriously think he was some kind of marksman?
> 
> Does the possibility of missing or accidentally hitting the wrong person even register for you?



Are you saying he hit the women by accident?



[just pointing out a logical flaw]


----------



## Imperial Impact (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Are we even talking about slutty hoop earring bitch?


----------



## Derin Darkpaw (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I can't speak for other feminists but I don't expect anyone to ignore militant feminists. Extremists are extremists.



And yet one group should be condemned for its extremists while another group should be seen as generally good despite its extremists?  If one can't look past the extremists of a group to judge it by its supposed agenda then why would one expect people to look past the extremists in one's own group and instead judge it based on the good it intends to do?


----------



## 1000bluntz (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Seriously though, why the fuck is this thread still here ? It's clearly a poorly written, long winded rant from a neckbeard who has a boner for gamergate politics. Mods if you're not going to delete this garbage, at least put it where it belongs.



Derin Darkpaw said:


> And yet one group should be condemned for its extremists while another group should be seen as generally good despite its extremists? If one can't look past the extremists of a group to judge it by its supposed agenda then why would one expect people to look past the extremists in one's own group and instead judge it based on the good it intends to do?



Extremism isn't always bad, 'radical' doesn't always mean bombing building and violence. Look up some of the words you keep using, you'd be surprised at what they actually mean.


----------



## ShioBear (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> Seriously though, why the fuck is this thread still here ? It's clearly a poorly written, long winded rant from a neckbeard who has a boner for gamergate politics. Mods if you're not going to delete this garbage, at least put it where it belongs.
> 
> 
> 
> Extremism isn't always bad, 'radical' doesn't always mean bombing building and violence. Look up some of the words you keep using, you'd be surprised at what they actually mean.


your a blind fool. you call me a neck beard yet you dont even know what i look like. its only poorly written because you dont agree with it. and your a shit disturbing troll who doesn't have a clue what it shits from its mouth hole.  you would have it deleted because it goes against your propaganda and brainwashed statements. your a cultural marxist. and yeah you twat extremism is pretty fucking bad almost 100% of the time.  your a fool and your user name doesnt help.


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## Volkodav (Jul 31, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

ITT feminists who dont know about feminism, telling people who do know about feminism, what feminism is about

hahaha


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## Kaizy (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I had seen this thread since I popped back on the forums, and and avoided it because I pretty much knew what I'd see.

After finally checking it, it's pretty much what I expected.

I see more pointless insults being thrown at each other and rants about feminism and "evil SJWs" than I do about anything related to the problems in the gaming industry.
You might as well rename this thread "Argue About Feminism" because that's all this is.


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## Zuriak (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ley said:


> A)I wasn't talking to you. B) Whenever you post stuff like this, Iimmediately know that this is a fun game for you, or that you won'ttake this discussion with sincerity and an open mind. You immediatelywalk in with this BS attitude that many dissenters of Feminism have,which is the equivalent of childishly plugging your ears and humming.Nearly all of your responses don't even touch upon many valid pointsI made, and your touting of "I'll provide sources if you want meto" lead me to believe you couldn't find nonbiased, reputableones, or too lazy to do so. But by all means, find your sources. Youreally should have done that from the start if you wanted to be takenseriously instead of another chump who wants to play 'lets chop thefeminist' or whatever. Like, you could have entered this with justthe below quote. The addition of the above picture automaticallyleaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I'll still continue withimpressive patience because why the hell not? Its 5:30 am and I havenothing to do 'till the moving truck gets here.


This is an open discussion,if it was directed just to Shio then a private message is in order.Also, you can't just call a point valid because you want to. Some ofthem weren't relevant to what we were discussing, while others weremoot because it's agreed. I'd like you to specify what you mean.




Ley said:


> Theuse of red text wasn't to mimic Shiobears responses, but to giveresponses to common reactions to various arguments for feminism. Thiswas a completely one-sided post, and I used Angry-Red-Text as aliterary proponent to both promote interest and add narrative to whatis ultimately a boring post. Angry-Red-Text is meant to be a succinctcharacter that plays along with my speech, though Angry-Red-Text hassaid many things that have rehashed this argument many times.


At best it's an improper segway to connect your points, and at worst it's assuming and putting words into one's mouth.




Ley said:


> Mygood sir, you literally managed to completely miss a 3,337 wordpost's entire point. I am impressed. Literally no where does it saythat feminism





Ley said:


> rightnowisfor equal rights. Feminism right now is forequalstanding.Wegot that over the course of the last few decades beginning with thesuffragettes. Second wave and third wave feminism was literally allabout cultural perception and attitude. We have rights.. sort of insome states. Abortion is still legal, but texas doesn't have enoughoperating planned parenthoods/abortion providers to really provide toanyone. 20 week bans put women in danger. So the right that men havethat women don't have right now is the right to a safe, reliable,option for an abortion near us without any politicians getting in theway of that. That is a huge concrete thing you guys don't need toworry about because.. you're literally guys. This isn't an issue thatconcerns you. You literally don't care. Roe VS Wade didn't fix a damnthing.
> 
> Letme put it to you this way: Blacks and Whites got the right to marryfor a long time, right? But then why is it just right now that it isacceptable? You see, its just recently that it has become sociallyacceptabletomarry interracially. Again, I'm underlining things and speaking inmore succinct points because you can't refute more than a handful ofideas with baseless and sourceless claims.


Feminismby definition is rights and oppurtunities for women. What you'redescribing approaches the territory for egalitarianism. Personally,I'm pro-choice and believe you are responsible for you, and the stateor any other entity cannot tell you what you can or cannot do withyour body. Pro-lifers largely come froma  religious background so youknow who your political opponents are. This does concern me, butstating that I don't care because I'm a man does not rest well withme. I'm sure I can make sweeping accusations that you don't careabout men's issue 'X', 'Y' or 'Zed' as well but it only serves tohurt your argument.


Though there are reasons that people respond to hotly to race. I think your enemy is more religion than it is this idea of patriarchy you possess.





Ley said:


> Iliterally said "I am sticking predominantly in western society,especially because I am uneducated in eastern feminisism and I trynot to talk about things I don't know about." So of course Ididn't talk about Shariah law. I am uneducated to any deep thoughtabout Shariah law except for what I see in media around me. I was,however, a christian and went to sunday school, so naturally I spokeabout something I knew about.





Ley said:


> Ireally want to see sources of women who have actually pushed forridiculous extra rights. You'll notice all of these women got shutdown. Like it or not, folks can tell when someone is blowing hot airor has a legitimate reason to act or say the things they do. Payingattention to feminists who want men to die is like paying attentionto the Ku Klux Klan begging for the separation of races. Again, it isan extremist response and again, the extremist response gets the mostattention. The woman who want extra rights did not get them, andinstead are angry within their circles. They are not seriousproponents within the feminist movement.



In my experience, I can safely say that Asian/African feminists have it worse than American feminists.Oneo f them actually vocal about it. I'm sure there are more examples I can dig up, but I find it morbidly humorous that Feminism wants to attack Christianity but not Islam.


As for the other ones:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...oman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html
http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/12/jessica-valenti-america-should-model.html
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...thout-anger/rqFNSIJp22YWQy6jGPvhPJ/story.html
http://jezebel.com/if-you-want-to-stop-violence-against-women-ban-men-1589233029
http://review.gawker.com/ban-men-from-literary-readings-1700491985


The KKK have negligablepolitical power, and the SJW variety has quite a bit. That's a really unfair comparison.




Ley said:


> Idon't care about having equal rights. I have those. I care aboutsocial and political and cultural attitudes towards women, like Isaid in the above mentioned three thousand word post. This hasliterally nothing to do with rights here- its all about how we'retreated. As far as being angry- we have been docile for a very longtime. Much like the black power movement's resurgence as of late,oppressed groups have become angry that peace and calm discussion hasachieved.. nothing! Now something needs to be done and we cannot waitfor another few decades for this kind of idea to die. Many activistsare confronting the idea head on.


"Idon't care about equal rights"


I should stop here, but I'll keep going.


I'm tired of cultural,social and political attitudes towards men as well. Why should I have to go to some foreign land and blast some poor kid in his skull dome because his leaders are in conflict with mine? Why do I have to pay the bill at a restaurant? I find them tiresome as well. You have equal rights (with some cushy bonuses) so you should be happy.




Ley said:


> Asfar as the REd PILL goes, if you bothered to look at what the bluepill is posting about, the front page is full of direct threads in the red-pill saying ridiculous things. If the red pill was asinnocuous as you are insinuating, they wouldn't be almost universallylooked down upon as a bunch of pouty MRAs they didn't get sex as areward. But if you REALLY want to see where the TRP condoned orlaughed at rape?





Ley said:


> One, Two, Three, four, five, six


I'll admit I haven't been to the Blue Pill, but from what I've seen from the Red Pill, I really haven't seen anything like that to warrant branding them in that light; every movement and group has their crazies.




Ley said:


> Falseequivalence. When you say 'it's just design', why is it everywhere?The difference between manly, ripped men and scantily clad women arevery different. The muscle-men who get all the women are called MalePower Fantasies, and of course, bimbo women are Sex Fantasies. Thereare two completely different things. The objectification of men andwomen are drastically different. You don't get mad, sure. But don'taccuse me of 'projection' when I've cited over 10 sources relating tothe different culture of things. Like, why the hell did you botherreplying when you were just going to deny literally everything Isaid? You literally will not give it any thought that there is somuch variation for men and almost none for women?


Implying women don't have power or sex fantasies. The two main characters from'Supernatural' have a gigantic female fan following. The newer doctors from Dr. Who?  Hell, look at Fifty Shades of Gray. These appeal to different audiences. I don't get upset when I see a cologne or anti-perspirant advertisement featuring a handsome, clear-skinned and muscular lad. I just accept I'll never be as great looking as him and I move on â€“ I don't really understand the controversy tosexualized women, and honestly I'll doubt the bimbos are mainstream and I'm speaking as someone who has invested an unhealthy amount ofmy life into vidya games. Wow, a character has desirable proportions or revealing clothing. Great. Wait, they're a woman? Sound the alarm!There's misogyny afoot.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

*My document writer butchered my formatting. Thanks Obama.*



Ley said:


> Ugh,dude, I'm not saying men suddenly need to start being weepy. I'msaying men should have the choice to be weepy if they want to. That'sthe entire point. Everyone approaches stuff differently, but thecultural perception is that men are emotionless stone beings andwomen are weepy crybabies. Feminism is calling for abolishing thatidea and just.. letting folks deal with shit the way they want,without calling a man a faf because he's crying.





Ley said:


> I really didn't want to say anything about this, but no. He takes careof his hygiene. Showers and whatnot. Clothes washing. but he deos thebare minimum. Everything else is 'too girly'. That's what I mean. Andbelieve what you will. You already entered this with a shittyattitude, and the reality is that at the end of this you'll stillbelieve you're this self righteous guy who has it all down pat andI'm just some bitch bitching. Literally nothing is wrong withsociety, right?


Thereare weepy men and honestly I find weepy, emotional peopleundesireable to be around. Then again I prefer stability andconsistancy. The perceptions from from sexual dimorphism, really.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2919083/Male-female-brains-really-wired-differently-Study-finds-women-far-affected-emotional-images.html]Seriously.[/quote]If someone wants to be resolute in their stoniness or weepy andemotional, fine. Let the person be the person they want to be.


Also, you brought up the anecdotal story, so don't get upset if I'm discussing it. Though I've never implied you were "just a bitch bitching", though I can associate that to your character if it helps at all.




Ley said:


> Imade several points that stated that these separitists are not to belistened to. They are the WBC of feminism. Folks who believe men needto eat shit and die are disgusting misandrists and no one shouldlisten to them, and that includes you. There are feminists, like me,who genuinely care about men. I genuinely want you to pursue what youwant without being called girly. I just want men and women to coexistand be happy without gender dictating our lives andinterests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll attack the rest because this is somewhat tiresome.




    Outliers are in every group and bring negative attention, but your idea of Feminism's    third wave is what is gaining Feminism negative attention. Getting    angry and active nets you attention, positive and negative, and this    is hijacked to extents that I personally find distasteful.
Yes, we're having a    discussion. Your condescending narrative and insults to myself and my    intelligence don't speak very well to your supposedly open and    gentle. At no point so I make myself the victim; you yourself claim    women are oppressed. YOU are saying this.
For the third time,    Feminism at this point in time has women's interests in mind. People    like myself favor egalitarianism because I like the idea of fair and    equal justice no matter who you are, be it color, gender or    socio-economic situation.

Additionally, I implied threats in general,  not rape threats -- I apologize if that's unclear.


For the Canadian story:https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/3dfsec/man_faces_6_months_in_jail_for_disagreeing_with/
For the class one:
http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/03/cayen-cash-robotics-class


Insult me all you like,call my attitude shitty and what not, no skin off my back. I've been called worse by better people.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Are you saying he hit the women by accident?
> 
> 
> 
> [just pointing out a logical flaw]


I meant he hit the men by accident.

I did, however, forget about the male roommates he killed, I'm sorry about that. But anyone who's read anything about Rodger and his manifesto, and saw his retrubution would clearly see that his intended target were women, primarily. But Rodger was a random sheltered loser, not an expert marksman who would score multiple headshots at the right targets, THAT'S my point. He missed or only wounded several women.

Elliot Rodger's motives were clear, but his execution was poor.



Derin Darkpaw said:


> And yet one group should be condemned for its extremists while another group should be seen as generally good despite its extremists?  If one can't look past the extremists of a group to judge it by its supposed agenda then why would one expect people to look past the extremists in one's own group and instead judge it based on the good it intends to do?


If you read the rest of my post...



Kellie Gator said:


> My point remains the same, though, all I ever want is for gamergaters to do something about their bad eggs.
> 
> But they never do. Gee, it's almost as if GG wants people to be harassed or are, at the very least, apathetic to it happening.
> *
> ...


You'd know what I was talking about.


----------



## Derin Darkpaw (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> If you read the rest of my post...
> You'd know what I was talking about.



One that is very disingenuous of you to assume that I did not read your entire post.  Two while I don't believe they are part of some sort of agenda I do feel like the articles posted was an example of confirmation bias.  They seem to have cherry picked the results that matched the narrative they believe and offhandedly dismissed any criticism brought against that same narrative.

Volk here is more then capable of doing the same for feminism.  Providing article after article detailing terrible things done and believed by people claiming to be a part of that movement,  BUT that doesn't mean I agree with him.  I recognize what he posts in this regard for the bias that it carries.

So my original questions still stand.

Why should one group be condemned for its extremists while another  group should be seen as generally good despite its extremists?  If one  can't look past the extremists of a group to judge it by its supposed  agenda then why would one expect people to look past the extremists in  one's own group and instead judge it based on the good it intends to do?


----------



## Inpw (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

2 on Feminism

[video=youtube;PnctLuNSZ2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnctLuNSZ2M[/video]


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Inpw said:


> 2 on Feminism
> 
> [video=youtube;PnctLuNSZ2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnctLuNSZ2M[/video]


http://i.imgur.com/QOT0O1m.png

Here we go again.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Inpw said:


> 2 on Feminism
> 
> [video=youtube;PnctLuNSZ2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnctLuNSZ2M[/video]



Not that I am a big fan of 2, he does have a point. In any radical sociopolitical movement, you will get your loudmouth myopic ignoramuses (like radical republicans for instance). Because we like to pay attention to the negative (which often deflects on the serious issues), people spend too much time arguing and giving the negative side its limelight. Modern Feminism is no different, and it is certainly in need of a revamp in certain areas.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Derin Darkpaw said:


> One that is very disingenuous of you to assume that I did not read your entire post.  Two while I don't believe they are part of some sort of agenda I do feel like the articles posted was an example of confirmation bias.  They seem to have cherry picked the results that matched the narrative they believe and offhandedly dismissed any criticism brought against that same narrative.
> 
> Volk here is more then capable of doing the same for feminism.  Providing article after article detailing terrible things done and believed by people claiming to be a part of that movement,  BUT that doesn't mean I agree with him.  I recognize what he posts in this regard for the bias that it carries.
> 
> ...


The SPLC are pretty damn credible, or do they cherry pick their info on groups like the KKK and Aryan Nations, too?

Also, look up the world "majority" in the dictionary please. There might be "reasonable" MRAs and GGers but honestly now, I think of them the same way I think of neo-nazis and the "pro-family" movement. They're hate movements and someone needs to recognize them as such.

I could say feminism in general is not a hate movement even if there are a minority of hateful feminists but why bother, right? People are so brainwashed in here they'll never believe that.


----------



## Valyriana (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Leaving my 2 cents here.

''Feminism'' as a name already applies to non equality. 

Thank you. No further discussion needed.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 1, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The SPLC are pretty damn credible, or do they cherry pick their info on groups like the KKK and Aryan Nations, too?
> 
> Also, look up the world "majority" in the dictionary please. There might be "reasonable" MRAs and GGers but honestly now, I think of them the same way I think of neo-nazis and the "pro-family" movement. They're hate movements and someone needs to recognize them as such.
> 
> I could say feminism in general is not a hate movement even if there are a minority of hateful feminists but why bother, right? People are so brainwashed in here they'll never believe that.


http://i.imgur.com/4JdqLiW.jpg

You still need to prove MRAs and GGers are hate movement and maintain an equivalence to neo-Nazis. Just stating it repeatedly and patting yourself on the back until the sun goes down doesn't accomplish anything.

Feminism is tied deeply into the SJW movement now, and the SJW movement has a lot of hate against others and its members.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Hey guys! Everyone who makes my side look bad is an extremist outlier, and everyone who makes your side look bad is a typical representation.
Am I doing this right?


----------



## Derin Darkpaw (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The SPLC are pretty damn credible, or do they cherry pick their info on groups like the KKK and Aryan Nations, too?
> 
> Also, look up the world "majority" in the dictionary please. There might be "reasonable" MRAs and GGers but honestly now, I think of them the same way I think of neo-nazis and the "pro-family" movement. They're hate movements and someone needs to recognize them as such.
> 
> I could say feminism in general is not a hate movement even if there are a minority of hateful feminists but why bother, right? People are so brainwashed in here they'll never believe that.



You may want to read the second article you posted again you might have missed this

"It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement"

And what I was referring to was not a lack of credibility, but the cognitive bias that can affect all people especially when they are attempting to support a specific narrative.  Like how in the second article they treat works of radical feminism as if they are satire, but they seem to take similar statements made by radical MRAs incredibly seriously.

Also you seem to have me confused with other people.  I do not in any way believe that feminism is a hate movement.


----------



## dischimera (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Valyriana said:


> Leaving my 2 cents here.
> 
> ''Feminism'' as a name already applies to non equality.
> 
> Thank you. No further discussion needed.



It is a misleading term. It took me a WHILE to understand what it really was about just because of the name alone. And all the fake feminists that pretty much degenerate the movement.


----------



## Mayfurr (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Why feminism is still necessary and relevant?
Look at the type of people telling you it isn't.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



dischimera said:


> It is a misleading term. It took me a WHILE to understand what it really was about just because of the name alone. And all the fake feminists that pretty much degenerate the movement.



not fake. they kind of devolved into something different now the minority is the old 2nd wave and 1st which aren't really about equality either but definitely not a hate movement just no longer need to protest. the new wave definitely are whole heatedly a hate movement. they go to men's rights seminars and call every man in the vicinity a rap apologist and a misogynist. they scream at people just trying to go see someone talk, and call them scum. as well as attacking people and picking fights. new wave fems hate the old wave  because they tend to call them out as being a hate movement and wanting  special treatment, as well as demonizing a whole sex, citing men have it in their blood to rape.  now im  not an mra, nore a feminist. im an egalitarian. but even feminists attack the movement saying its an institution of the mra. its a whole lot of men cant do this and that, but we should be able to because were women.  now im gender-fluid, but because i have a penis between my legs im automatically assumed to be a rapist, a misogynist, and privileged, when in fact women get scholarships just for having a vagina, its easier for a women to get a job because of women only hiring staffs everywhere. its a dead movement that wasn't needed anymore so the special snowflakes  with an unhealthy hate for men and a large dose a 1st world problem fever, decided to just start attacking men in any way possible be it crazy nonsense like man spreading ( although women with tuns of purses are allowed to take 3 seats), dont be that guy, dehumanizing rape culture propaganda ads( because all men are rapists at heart and women neeeever rape:V). and now its video games, anything that isn't to their liking is awful and should be changed to fit their  closed minded narrative. its not even a matter of saying no now, if you disagree they spread lies like the plague till you do comply or your name is spat on and shamed just for having a bit of artistic freedom. really feminism is a hate movement, its cultural Marxism. and something needs to be done.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/4JdqLiW.jpg
> 
> You still need to prove MRAs and GGers are hate movement and maintain an equivalence to neo-Nazis. Just stating it repeatedly and patting yourself on the back until the sun goes down doesn't accomplish anything.
> 
> Feminism is tied deeply into the SJW movement now, and the SJW movement has a lot of hate against others and its members.


I have multiple times already.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Mayfurr said:


> Why feminism is still necessary and relevant?
> Look at the type of people telling you it isn't.


Are you saying that because we're men? (You sexist, you!) You'll find plenty of women who will say the same thing. American/Western feminism is no longer needed and efforts should be made to rectify situations in countries where women are executed if they're raped or have their genitals mutilated.



Kellie Gator said:


> I have multiple times already.


http://i.imgur.com/eg6mMwX.jpg

"Neo-Nazism borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including ultranationalism, racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler." -Excerpt from a Wikipedia page regarding Neo-Nazism.

Sorry, I don't see the overlap between proponents of GamerGate or even the MRM when compared to that of Neo-Nazism. If you could run your evidence by us one more time, that'd be just utterly fantastic.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Mayfurr said:


> Why feminism is still necessary and relevant?
> Look at the type of people telling you it isn't.



Oh please, _do_ tell me what kind of person I am.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Mayfurr said:


> Why feminism is still necessary and relevant?
> Look at the type of people telling you it isn't.



do tell me as well http://memecrunch.com/image/4f2f33a71861336239000e86.jpg?w=308


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ley, you brought the house down like a fucking champ but let these boys have their "he-man woman haters" club. They have so little anyway. :v


----------



## Fallowfox (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Well this is a fucking mess.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> Ley, you brought the house down like a fucking champ but let these boys have their "he-man woman haters" club. They have so little anyway. :v



nahh zuriak wrecked ley sorry. lolol


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This is just an endless war now were "thousands die on each side", I want to try and take the discussion seriously, but I just can't, I just look and giggle at how insane this is all getting, its beyond comprehension. 

I'm neither in league with feminism, MRA's, GamerGate or what have you, its just all beyond me to try and get involved and honestly with how high-strung both sides get, it doesn't make it very enticing to get involved in the first place. 

I'm happy to enjoy the games and media that I love, I really don't care that much any more about the whole feminist versus MRA debate, I still don't like Anita Sarkeesian but at this point I've longed stopped caring, If she becomes a truly prominent figure,  I'll just clap my hands and say good for you Anita, you've gotten to a decent position not many in life will get, enjoy the non-stop harassment from all sides, long since realised that she isn't going to have this drastic world shaking effect on the stuff I actually enjoy, she doesn't have nor will she ever have that prominence. 

As for the Feminisn versus MRA versus GamerGate, you guys continue to enjoy this endless war on a Furry Forum


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> nahh zuriak wrecked ley sorry. lolol



No, you!!!!!!! 

*throws childish tantrum* 

(I'd have searched for a gif but I'm on a tablet today. Srry)


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> No, you!!!!!!!
> 
> *throws childish tantrum*
> 
> (I'd have searched for a gif but I'm on a tablet today. Srry)



Doesn't stop the mental image from being utterly adorable x3


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> No, you!!!!!!!
> 
> *throws childish tantrum*
> 
> (I'd have searched for a gif but I'm on a tablet today. Srry)



http://33.media.tumblr.com/fe0aa8b501a5e2741e5329e2bc6cd1d5/tumblr_mnjbpn7m7s1ris28no1_250.gif


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/eg6mMwX.jpg
> 
> "Neo-Nazism borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including ultranationalism, racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler." -Excerpt from a Wikipedia page regarding Neo-Nazism.
> 
> Sorry, I don't see the overlap between proponents of GamerGate or even the MRM when compared to that of Neo-Nazism. If you could run your evidence by us one more time, that'd be just utterly fantastic.


Well, someone missed the point I was making entirely-

Lots of racists would use the same argument as you just did.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1of02ds6E1rqfhi2o1_500.gif


----------



## Fallowfox (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, someone missed the point I was making entirely-
> 
> Lots of racists would use the same argument as you just did.



I suspect hyperbole is involved. 

 'ooh I don't agree with you; you're just like the klu klux klan!'


----------



## -Sliqq- (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I sat in this whole thread not knowing what GamerGate is.

+1 cookie for me.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> I suspect hyperbole is involved.
> 
> 'ooh I don't agree with you; you're just like the klu klux klan!'


I'm just trying to say MRAs and Gamergate are hate movements directed at women just like KKK is a hate movement directed against other races, what is there not to understand? ._.

To be fair SPLC didn't classify them as such (no MRM groups are currently in their list of hate groups) but nonetheless it detailed the movement's rampant misogyny that the majority of the MRM displays and, well, it takes a strong man to deny what's front of him (thank you, Spec Ops: The Line).


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I'm just trying to say MRAs and Gamergate are hate movements directed at women just like KKK is a hate movement directed against other races, what is there not to understand? ._.



Because you don't actually want to discuss anything or empathise with anybody, just hold onto that precious idea, refuse to let any scary words and thoughts in, and return only to mock people and calling it satire, thinking you're funny to anyone outside of yourself. Just save your breath m8.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Well, someone missed the point I was making entirely-
> 
> Lots of racists would use the same argument as you just did.


http://i.imgur.com/KT58ZLd.jpg

You have to have a point to begin with, Kellie.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/KT58ZLd.jpg
> 
> You have to have a point to begin with, Kellie.


Zuriak's guide to discussion:

1: Post random image.
2: Completely disregard what the other person says.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Zuriak's guide to discussion:
> 
> 1: Post random image.
> 2: Completely disregard what the other person says.


Perhaps you should start following step one, because you already have step two nailed down quite nicely for yourself.

I've repeatedly asked for you to prove that MRAs and GGers are hate movements similar to Neo-Nazism. Thus far you've just said I've missed your point and claimed racists make the same argument. Verbosity does not an argument make.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Perhaps you should start following step one, because you already have step two nailed down quite nicely for yourself.
> 
> I've repeatedly asked for you to prove that MRAs and GGers are hate movements similar to Neo-Nazism. Thus far you've just said I've missed your point and claimed racists make the same argument. Verbosity does not an argument make.


I posted links earlier in the thread, bozo.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> I posted links earlier in the thread, bozo.


Instead of calling me a bozo, you could instead relink your evidence. We're fifty-eight pages in, help me out here.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Instead of calling me a bozo, you could instead relink your evidence. We're fifty-eight pages in, help me out here.



It was only two pages ago but okay.



Kellie Gator said:


> I can't speak for other feminists but I don't expect anyone to ignore militant feminists. Extremists are extremists.
> 
> My point remains the same, though, all I ever want is for gamergaters to do something about their bad eggs.
> 
> ...


I can also post screenshots like this one from an angry MRA, and then there's the article promoting "bashing" (READ: bullying and abuse) of women, and another Men's Rights article about how women with tattoos are oppressing to men because MEIN BONER. :C

I can probably post more, the list goes on forever.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> It was only two pages ago but okay.
> 
> 
> I can also post screenshots like this one from an angry MRA, and then there's the article promoting "bashing" (READ: bullying and abuse) of women, and another Men's Rights article about how women with tattoos are oppressing to men because MEIN BONER. :C
> ...


Your source here *specifically says* the MRM is NOT a hate movement, only that certain fringe portions bring about misogyny and hatred. Are you insinuating that Feminism doesn't behave similarly? Additionally, the people you are mentioning identify as MGTOWs, and I myself have said they were kinda out there in terms of stance. Though the author of the "Bashing Women" article has a few solid points: women are actually idealized in our society. Hold the door open for them, don't hit them, pay the bill when you go out to dinner -- etcetera, etcetera. As for actively bashing women because of this? I can't see how that's a valid standpoint -- much like bashing men is not valid either.

Take a moment and reexamine what you've just put down.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Well this is a fucking mess.



This is literally what every GG thread turns into.
At least I'm getting some entertainment out of it.

Also I love how all the arguments on one side here start with links to meme images, as if they added something witty to everyone's points.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> This is literally what every GG thread turns into.
> At least I'm getting some entertainment out of it.
> 
> Also I love how all the arguments on one side here start with links to meme images, as if they added something witty to everyone's points.


http://i.imgur.com/aXUR2xP.jpg


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/aXUR2xP.jpg



I do love me some Berenstain Bears


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Your source here *specifically says* the MRM is NOT a hate movement, only that certain fringe portions bring about misogyny and hatred. Are you insinuating that Feminism doesn't behave similarly? Additionally, the people you are mentioning identify as MGTOWs, and I myself have said they were kinda out there in terms of stance. Though the author of the "Bashing Women" article has a few solid points: women are actually idealized in our society. Hold the door open for them, don't hit them, pay the bill when you go out to dinner -- etcetera, etcetera. As for actively bashing women because of this? I can't see how that's a valid standpoint -- much like bashing men is not valid either.
> 
> Take a moment and reexamine what you've just put down.


http://i.imgur.com/1DbpRVE.gif


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Just FYI
the SPLC thinks Gamergate is a terrorist organization and therefore is not a reputable source


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Just FYI
> the SPLC thinks Gamergate is a terrorist organization and therefore is not a reputable source


Hahahaha.

SPLC discarded.


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> Just FYI
> the SPLC thinks Gamergate is a terrorist organization and therefore is not a reputable source



They called them a hate group, by the way, not a terrorist organization.

Kind of like they did with the Family Research Council.

That action got the same kind of reaction, oddly enough.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/aXUR2xP.jpg



_*
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
*_


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> _*
> RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
> *_


lady's and gentlemen i give you the feminist mating call.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> _*
> RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
> *_


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCeOf2q6_TA


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> They called them a hate group, by the way, not a terrorist organization.



SPLC is worthless, they've crammed Gamergate right beside the KKK, which the FBI and SPLC considers a terror group.


Pathetic.


----------



## Lisek (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> I sat in this whole thread not knowing what GamerGate is.
> 
> +1 cookie for me.



I'll tell you, a gamergate is a type of ant. People really hate ants.


----------



## Cocobanana (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

C'mon guys and women can't we get along


----------



## -Sliqq- (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Cocobanana said:


> C'mon guys and women can't we get along



Typical playground shit right there

Next thing you know, Gamergate and the Feminists will be playing booty tag.


----------



## Cocobanana (Aug 2, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Typical playground shit right there
> 
> Next thing you know, Gamergate and the Feminists will be playing booty tag.



Consensual (enough) sex solves all problems, except for people without genitals. Poor genital-less bastards.


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> SPLC is worthless, they've crammed Gamergate right beside the KKK, which the FBI and SPLC considers a terror group.
> 
> 
> Pathetic.



I was just pointing out that they don't decide if an organization is a threat to American security or not. The organizations that do have not decided that Gamergate is a threat.

In addition, the FBI does not officially list the KKK as a terrorist organization. They do pay loads of attention to them, but I can legally join or help my local branch if I want and not become a listed terrorist. There are actually very, very, very few domestic groups and organizations officially considered terrorist organizations by the U.S. government.

I'm not trying to argue that the SPLC is correct, I'm just pointing out that your original statement wasn't.

Don't worry, I agree. They're shameful to the people they claim to represent, and they attempt to appeal more the the minorities that have more money than they actually attempt to help the ones that need them.


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The FBI considers the KKK a domestic terror group, yes.


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> The FBI considers the KKK a domestic terror group, yes.



Being a member of a recognized terrorist group or aiding a terrorist organization is a crime in the U.S.. They are an extremist group according to the FBI and the U.S. department of homeland security, but the government does not consider them a domestic terror organization. No members are prosecuted unless they commit a crime.

I know several members of the Ku Klos Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan chapters of the Klan in my state that don't have their records showing them as terrorists, and the FBI most certainly never bothers them, even though some of them lead these chapters, or have major influence deeper into the Klan. 

It would be really stupid of them to publicize their events if their actions were illegal. It would be really stupid of them to publicize mailing addresses of some leaders if their actions were illegal. It would be really stupid of them to register with the state to create stores and non profits if it were illegal.

Very, very, very few domestic groups are considered terrorist organizations, especially those pro-government.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

oh for fuck's sake, I think I'm out, the denial in this thread is hopeless, y'all need therapy


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> oh for fuck's sake, I think I'm out, the denial in this thread is hopeless, y'all need therapy



What's new?


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> What's new?


People disregarding the SPLC because they're oblivious about their own movement.

These people remind me of my mom and her dumb Jehovah's Witness. dat denial


----------



## Volkodav (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

it doesnt matter if the FBI bothers with them or not
its the fact that theyre being labeled a terror group
THAT IS THE POINT IM MAKING


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> oh for fuck's sake, I think I'm out, the denial in this thread is hopeless, y'all need therapy





Kellie Gator said:


> People disregarding the SPLC because they're oblivious about their own movement.
> 
> These people remind me of my mom and her dumb Jehovah's Witness. dat denial


http://i.imgur.com/CZG7kUF.jpg

This is what, your eighth exit? We've repeatedly proven that Gamergaters and Men's Rights Activists aren't hate movements, and are certainly not terrorists. Thus far all we've received in return for our time and effort in try to engage your side of the discussion is passive-aggressive quips and downright dismissal of any and all evidence against your viewpoint. The fact you think we're terrorists sort of frightens me, because you've obviously no idea what a terrorist is.

Google Chechenclear or the ISIS beheadings. Speaking out against corrupt journalism (which tried to cover itself up and attack gamers as a sort of half-failed defense mechanism) is apparently terrorism and hate speech. And you wonder why we're not taking you seriously. Perhaps taking a look at #NotYourShield while you're on your way out will help you on your course.


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Volkodav said:


> it doesnt matter if the FBI bothers with them or not
> its the fact that theyre being labeled a terror group
> THAT IS THE POINT IM MAKING



If your point is that they are ignored even though they are a terror  group, they aren't being ignored. Many cities are trying to pass  legislation to criminalize Klan membership. Anti-Klan protests are just  as common as the Klan ones. Some cities have even passed the legislation  and the Klan is having moderate success in fighting back because of the inherent legal issue of a small government banning membership in a group. And they aren't officially recognized as a terrorist organization.

As far as I can find, the FBI does not consider them a terrorist group. Could you please show me where they've stated they do? Them or anyone else with the power to determine the legal status of any similar organization. The only things I've found are the criminalization of the original Klan, which doesn't apply to modern Klans, and numerous investigations into different Klan branches resulting in them finding nothing or being able to arrest a bunch of people for crimes that would have otherwise been ignored and not dealt with by the FBI.

They wouldn't have to do that if the KKK were an official terror  group. I consider them terrorists, and so do many people. It is difficult to get membership in an American organization criminalized, or to even deal with the ones that are actually legally terrorists.

The Army of Islam in the Middle East? Sure! Lock the fuckers in Guantanamo no matter what they did for the organization! 
The Knights in America? Oh God, what about the ones that just protest the government legally? What about their children? They are just speaking their mind. They're just patriots and veterans for fucks sake!

If that isn't your point, you'll have to make it clearer me.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/CZG7kUF.jpg
> 
> This is what, your eighth exit? We've repeatedly proven that Gamergaters and Men's Rights Activists aren't hate movements, and are certainly not terrorists. Thus far all we've received in return for our time and effort in try to engage your side of the discussion is passive-aggressive quips and downright dismissal of any and all evidence against your viewpoint. The fact you think we're terrorists sort of frightens me, because you've obviously no idea what a terrorist is.
> 
> Google Chechenclear or the ISIS beheadings. Speaking out against corrupt journalism (which tried to cover itself up and attack gamers as a sort of half-failed defense mechanism) is apparently terrorism and hate speech. And you wonder why we're not taking you seriously. Perhaps taking a look at #NotYourShield while you're on your way out will help you on your course.


Of course you'd post an image and think you're so fucking witty, which you're not.

You need help.


----------



## Fallowfox (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Kellie, please stop saying you'll go away and just go the fuck away. :\

You're the person manufacturing all the drama here.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fallowfox said:


> Kellie, please stop saying you'll go away and just go the fuck away. :\
> 
> You're the person manufacturing all the drama here.


Yep, blame it all on me and not on the MRA circlejerk who keeps responding to my posts because of their righteous indignation.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Yep, blame it all on me and not on the MRA circlejerk who keeps responding to my posts because of their righteous indignation.



They wouldn't be able to respond to your posts if you didn't make any.

And since you said you were quitting the thread (again), that shouldn't be too hard.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

wtf Fa, don't tell me I need to wait before posting, and then post twice.


----------



## Lomberdia (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Yep, blame it all on me and not on the MRA circlejerk who keeps responding to my posts because of their righteous indignation.


Wow, childish as hell. Last I hear this argument was from my girlfriend's 6 yo girl.

Little girl: "I wouldn't be yelling if he didn't make faces at me!"
Me: He didn't MAKE you yell, so stop yelling.

If you're gonna leave, leave. You just like drama because your life is so boring. Bet this is the most excitement you get on a normal day. Go watch Jerry Springer if you want your drama fix.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

This thread needs major readjustment.

Anybody got a screwdriver?

Somebody's about to get screwed... Bad


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I'd probably fuck Anita if she had a smaller nose.


----------



## Fallowfox (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

...


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I'd probably fuck Anita if she had a smaller nose.


I dunno what's with everyone's obsession with her nose.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's illuminati, Kellie.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I'd probably fuck Anita if she had a smaller nose.


She's actually very attractive, though her personality and ethics take her beyond the point of undesirable. Then again I like aquiline noses.


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> I'd probably fuck Anita if she had a smaller nose.





Fallowfox said:


> ...





Kellie Gator said:


> I dunno what's with everyone's obsession with her nose.





Zuriak said:


> She's actually very attractive, though her  personality and ethics take her beyond the point of undesirable. Then  again I like aquiline noses.



Am I a terrible person for having the first song to come to mind about this whole situation is the one from family guy of the stereotype racist guys singing random songs with one of them being "She got a big ole'jewish nose!"


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ah, a ton of discussion on feminism, SJWs, the KKK, and who'd fuck Anita, but not a single discussion about any of the _real_ problems with the game industry today.

Classic GamerGate thread :^)


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> Ah, a ton of discussion on feminism, SJWs, the KKK, and who'd fuck Anita, but not a single discussion about any of the _real_ problems with the game industry today.
> 
> Classic GamerGate thread :^)



Such as game companies paying gamer magazines to skew review numbers in their favor. Game informer's one that's famous for taking "donations" in order to skew numbers to help break sales.
http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/f...iew-scores-are-skewed-due-to-public-relations
http://www.p4rgaming.com/ex-ign-emp...-that-arent-even-close-to-release-like-gta-v/


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> Such as game companies paying gamer magazines to skew review numbers in their favor. Game informer's one that's famous for taking "donations" in order to skew numbers to help break sales.
> http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/f...iew-scores-are-skewed-due-to-public-relations
> http://www.p4rgaming.com/ex-ign-emp...-that-arent-even-close-to-release-like-gta-v/



That's been such a problem for the longest time and it's bullshit. But I mean when you have nice big pockets like most of these companies, you can get away with paying for nice reviews to boost sales.
My problem is no one's ever really fought against it. You never hear these little movements outing these "donations" and trying to shame the major game companies for their shitty business practices, or jump all over the major game magazines that willingly accept large payoffs in exchange for high reviews. It's like everyone knows about these things but doesn't actively do anything to try and prevent these things from happening. It just seems like it's always an "oh, well that sucks" from everyone.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> That's been such a problem for the longest time and it's bullshit. But I mean when you have nice big pockets like most of these companies, you can get away with paying for nice reviews to boost sales.
> My problem is no one's ever really fought against it. You never hear these little movements outing these "donations" and trying to shame the major game companies for their shitty business practices, or jump all over the major game magazines that willingly accept large payoffs in exchange for high reviews. It's like everyone knows about these things but doesn't actively do anything to try and prevent these things from happening. It just seems like it's always an "oh, well that sucks" from everyone.



But those groups are giant corporations. When it happens in the indie scene where nepotism can do the most damage and also be small enough to be tackled by the customers as well as having proof and even getting several of the involved figures to admit it, it's no surprise that they're less apathetic this time around. Even developers are in support of it, because they fear that this nepotism can stop their game from getting covered or promoted at all. It outraged people that a HTML document won more awards than actual games.
But this wouldn't have happened if the Five Guys Burgers n Fries lulzcow didn't take off on places like 4chan, which made GG start on Twitter.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> But those groups are giant corporations. When it happens in the indie scene where nepotism can do the most damage and also be small enough to be tackled by the customers as well as having proof and even getting several of the involved figures to admit it, it's no surprise that they're less apathetic this time around. Even developers are in support of it, because they fear that this nepotism can stop their game from getting covered or promoted at all. It outraged people that a HTML document won more awards than actual games.
> But this wouldn't have happened if the Five Guys Burgers n Fries lulzcow didn't take off on places like 4chan, which made GG start on Twitter.


Bingo. The cover up sparked the outrage.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> But those groups are giant corporations. When it happens in the indie scene where nepotism can do the most damage and also be small enough to be tackled by the customers as well as having proof and even getting several of the involved figures to admit it, it's no surprise that they're less apathetic this time around. Even developers are in support of it, because they fear that this nepotism can stop their game from getting covered or promoted at all. It outraged people that a HTML document won more awards than actual games.
> But this wouldn't have happened if the Five Guys Burgers n Fries lulzcow didn't take off on places like 4chan, which made GG start on Twitter.



The problem is this leaves the big corporations to just continue to condone shitty business practices. Calling out smaller companies and developers may be easier, but it does nothing to impact the big issue in the industry. Just because they're a large corporation doesn't mean they're untouchable and should just be left to continue to screw with the industry and play the market in their favor with bribes. If GG really wanted to impact the industry, they could implement boycotts and take some action to hit the big companies in the wallets where they're more likely to feel the pain and notice their customers aren't interested in their business anymore, as opposed to just taking down small-time developers who have barely any influence on the industry in the way the bigger companies do.

All that's really happening is small-time developers are being put under a much larger microscope, while the big companies face no repercussions because they know everyone's just gonna continue to buy their games regardless of how shitty their business is because they know no one wants to actually take action and refuse to buy their products.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> She's actually very attractive, though her personality and ethics take her beyond the point of undesirable. Then again I like aquiline noses.



If it wasnt for her BFS or RBF shed be attractive. but she has activist face, and that's ugly. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=resting+bitch+face


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> The problem is this leaves the big corporations to just continue to condone shitty business practices. Calling out smaller companies and developers may be easier, but it does nothing to impact the big issue in the industry. Just because they're a large corporation doesn't mean they're untouchable and should just be left to continue to screw with the industry and play the market in their favor with bribes. If GG really wanted to impact the industry, they could implement boycotts and take some action to hit the big companies in the wallets where they're more likely to feel the pain and notice their customers aren't interested in their business anymore, as opposed to just taking down small-time developers who have barely any influence on the industry in the way the bigger companies do.
> 
> All that's really happening is small-time developers are being put under a much larger microscope, while the big companies face no repercussions because they know everyone's just gonna continue to buy their games regardless of how shitty their business is because they know no one wants to actually take action and refuse to buy their products.



Gamers have tried to do boycotts against large companies all the time and they've never been successful. Left 4 Dead 2 and CoD MW2 to name two. So Gawker, a big company that owns lots of stuff including Kotaku, Polygon, and numerous other indie game journo sites, got their advertisers mass-spammed by gamers due to Gawker smearing and insulting their advertisers' target consumers, costing them "seven figures" with Hulk Hogan now going in for the kill over something unrelated, but Gawker are now terrified and are doing everything to delay the trial.

The reason this is important for the small developers is because they don't have that many options for exposure outside of the near-monopolized journos, and these indie expo events that said journos and their judges infest. Quinn (who I couldn't care less about) being exposed as performing sexual favours for judges raises huge concerns. It could have been rectified very quickly, but it's a threat to those companies. So it seemed smarter to them that they could launch a synchronised set of smear articles on all their websites to attack their critics (and audience, and customers, and other developers...) and make it fit into the ever-popular feminism debate.

So it made more people angry, made them angrier as time passed, and drew the fiasco out far longer than it had to be. It's been nearly a year, and the only thing asked for was transparency and reform.

It could have been anything else that fit into the same boat, and they would have just found another way to bury, deflect, or smear the critics.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Gamers have tried to do boycotts against large companies all the time and they've never been successful. Left 4 Dead 2 and CoD MW2 to name two. So Gawker, a big company that owns lots of stuff including Kotaku, Polygon, and numerous other indie game journo sites, got their advertisers mass-spammed by gamers due to Gawker smearing and insulting their advertisers' target consumers, costing them "seven figures" with Hulk Hogan now going in for the kill over something unrelated, but Gawker are now terrified and are doing everything to delay the trial.
> 
> The reason this is important for the small developers is because they don't have that many options for exposure outside of the near-monopolized journos, and these indie expo events that said journos and their judges infest. Quinn (who I couldn't care less about) being exposed as performing sexual favours for judges raises huge concerns. It could have been rectified very quickly, but it's a threat to those companies. So it seemed smarter to them that they could launch a synchronised set of smear articles on all their websites to attack their critics (and audience, and customers, and other developers...) and make it fit into the ever-popular feminism debate.
> 
> ...



But the problem is, what does this actually do to stop this from happening in the industry? Sure, it stop smaller developers pretty easily since they don't have the same access to legal resources that bigger companies do, but again, those game corporations essentially still get away with murder. The problem is still persistent no matter how many small developers get outed. The whole GG movement was founded on exposing foul play among small developers and continue to do so, but they do nothing to punish the real perpetrators of the problem.

Saying that trying to do something before "hasn't been successful" doesn't mean they should throw their hands up and just let them do as they wish. Obviously anyone that has ties to the companies cant do much at risk of legal action, but customers are different. Customers can refuse to buy their products en masse and they cant do anything to make you buy from them. Boycotting their products is the best method of getting the message across since they only care about their profits, but people will continue to buy the AAA titles of those companies, all while complaining about how awful the same company is. That's what I think the real problem is is that no one _wants_ to fully commit to a boycott. They just want to play their games and continue to complain about the companies their supporting with their money, and it's a shame because nothing is going to change at this point.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> your a blind fool. you call me a neck beard yet you dont even know what i look like. its only poorly written because you dont agree with it. and your a shit disturbing troll who doesn't have a clue what it shits from its mouth hole.  you would have it deleted because it goes against your propaganda and brainwashed statements. your a cultural marxist. and yeah you twat extremism is pretty fucking bad almost 100% of the time.  your a fool and your user name doesnt help.



Let me guess, you google'd the terms "cultural marxism" and "feminism" and clicked on something akin to this  http://www.returnofkings.com/18998/cultural-marxism-produces-matriarchy
how you gonna try and criticize shit you've never even read into lol

Oh and all extremism is bad ? Bitch, if it weren't for the factory workers bombing the police & wallstreet during america's industrial revolution and early 1900s, you wouldn't have the labor laws you have today. How do you think black americans survived under a white supremacist system for so long and have the rights they have today ? Do you think lynchings and open discrimination just outright stopped after Martin Luther King's speech ? The "extremists" black panthers and "radical" figures like Malcolm X did a lot of the dirty work that white America does not put in the textbooks.


----------



## Azure (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

feminism is passe

just like gay marriage


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> But the problem is, what does this actually do to stop this from happening in the industry? Sure, it stop smaller developers pretty easily since they don't have the same access to legal resources that bigger companies do, but again, those game corporations essentially still get away with murder. The problem is still persistent no matter how many small developers get outed. The whole GG movement was founded on exposing foul play among small developers and continue to do so, but they do nothing to punish the real perpetrators of the problem.
> 
> Saying that trying to do something before "hasn't been successful" doesn't mean they should throw their hands up and just let them do as they wish. Obviously anyone that has ties to the companies cant do much at risk of legal action, but customers are different. Customers can refuse to buy their products en masse and they cant do anything to make you buy from them. Boycotting their products is the best method of getting the message across since they only care about their profits, but people will continue to buy the AAA titles of those companies, all while complaining about how awful the same company is. That's what I think the real problem is is that no one _wants_ to fully commit to a boycott. They just want to play their games and continue to complain about the companies their supporting with their money, and it's a shame because nothing is going to change at this point.



Can't answer that one for you m8, but I'd consider looking it from a gradualist perspective. Indie companies respond the most to outside voices, but the big companies respond to sales figures, and that's because many indie developers do it out of love for games otherwise they'd get a job at a big company instead. If there's reform in the indie corner of the industry (where the current state of journalism can block those avenues if it wanted to) and it proves beneficial, big companies may adopt things from them. Those indie companies could become bigger companies themselves, potentially changing the state of said big industry.

I think you're right about what you have to say about the larger part of the industry, but that fish can't be fried in the current climate if you get my meaning.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Schwimmwagen said:


> Can't answer that one for you m8, but I'd consider looking it from a gradualist perspective. Indie companies respond the most to outside voices, but the big companies respond to sales figures, and that's because many indie developers do it out of love for games otherwise they'd get a job at a big company instead. If there's reform in the indie corner of the industry (where the current state of journalism can block those avenues if it wanted to) and it proves beneficial, big companies may adopt things from them. Those indie companies could become bigger companies themselves, potentially changing the state of said big industry.
> 
> I think you're right about what you have to say about the larger part of the industry, but that fish can't be fried in the current climate if you get my meaning.



I guess. It's just disappointing to see no pushback from the community towards big corporations. It's just some complaints here and there with no real action taken against them.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> I guess. It's just disappointing to see no pushback from the community towards big corporations. It's just some complaints here and there with no real action taken against them.


There's plenty, actually, but many people have the stand of: Don't like, don't buy it. There are plenty of people who will not purchase a Bioware game, for example. The movements generally fizzle out as it's realized there are more people willing to buy the game than there are people actively not doing it out of protest.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> There's plenty, actually, but many people have the stand of: Don't like, don't buy it. There are plenty of people who will not purchase a Bioware game, for example. The movements generally fizzle out as it's realized there are more people willing to buy the game than there are people actively not doing it out of protest.



Well that's the problem, there needs to be a bigger push to not support the big developers when they do that sort of thing. I never see anyone actively pushing these sort of things, you just kind of hear about a handful of people not supporting it, but never is it the focus of a movement. I never hear about movements like GG pushing large protests/boycotts as their primary action to make the companies acknowledge the problems, just a lot of unimportant issues getting discussed while the industry continues to do as it pleases.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> Let me guess, you google'd the terms "cultural marxism" and "feminism" and clicked on something akin to this  http://www.returnofkings.com/18998/cultural-marxism-produces-matriarchy
> how you gonna try and criticize shit you've never even read into lol
> 
> Oh and all extremism is bad ? Bitch, if it weren't for the factory workers bombing the police & wallstreet during america's industrial revolution and early 1900s, you wouldn't have the labor laws you have today. How do you think black americans survived under a white supremacist system for so long and have the rights they have today ? Do you think lynchings and open discrimination just outright stopped after Martin Luther King's speech ? The "extremists" black panthers and "radical" figures like Malcolm X did a lot of the dirty work that white America does not put in the textbooks.


so i found your selfie, you got a purdy mouth boy http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120826123355/vssaxtonhale/images/c/c2/Troll-face.png


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> so i found your selfie, you got a purdy mouth boy http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120826123355/vssaxtonhale/images/c/c2/Troll-face.png



Did you just shitpost in your own thread?


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 3, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> Did you just shitpost in your own thread?



no. responding to a troll.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> I guess. It's just disappointing to see no pushback from the community towards big corporations. It's just some complaints here and there with no real action taken against them.


The answer is simple; the big corporations are run by men.

Seriously, why do these basement dwellers turn a blind eye to real lying douchebag scam artists like Randy Pitchford?


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> The answer is simple; the big corporations are run by men.
> 
> Seriously, why do these basement dwellers turn a blind eye to real lying douchebag scam artists like Randy Pitchford?


Damn, she caught us! Shiobear, what did I tell you about leaving you Patriarchy Membership card laying around willy nilly?

Typically things need controversy else they fizzle out; GamerGate started because of a large scale cover up. I don't believe Activision tried to cover anything up with their Mountain Dew and Doritos tie ins with Call of Duty, or Microsoft in the same boat with Halo. Seriously, google the Dorito Pope. There is some backlash over journalists that give good reviews because they've been buttered up.

What is Randy Pitchford involved in again? Because I guarantee you there is backlash over it.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

ohh shit i knew i left my patriarchy hand book somewhere :V also wasn't someone supposed to be leaving?


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Damn, she caught us! Shiobear, what did I tell you about leaving you Patriarchy Membership card laying around willy nilly?
> 
> Typically things need controversy else they fizzle out; GamerGate started because of a large scale cover up. I don't believe Activision tried to cover anything up with their Mountain Dew and Doritos tie ins with Call of Duty, or Microsoft in the same boat with Halo. Seriously, google the Dorito Pope. There is some backlash over journalists that give good reviews because they've been buttered up.
> 
> What is Randy Pitchford involved in again? Because I guarantee you there is backlash over it.



If anything, that confuses me more. Wording it like that makes it sound like GG gave not a care in the world and was fine with these awful corporations flashing their bad business everywhere, but when smaller developers were found out doing something in the same boat and covering it up, that was the sin that could not go unpunished. It just seems like this whole movement's priorities are out of whack and they're not actually tackling any of the issues. A lot of the GG-related threads and content I've seen have pretty much been comprised of nothing but what I've seen on the past few pages; a rampant argument against feminism, constant complaining about "SJWs" and talking about Anita as if she's some sort of relevant icon in feminism or gaming (when she's really not, she's just kind of _there_). I've really never seen a single one of them discuss issues in working in the industry with the corporations or show public outrage at their treatment of employees, the constant lack of content in full-price AAA titles that get released with alongside "Day One" DLC and microtransactions which is just stuff that should have been included in the base game, the overall degrading treatment these companies have towards the customers by constantly rehashing previous titles with little to no work and reselling them as brand new installments, releasing buggy and unfinished games as full price AAA titles and cheating customers out of money, ect. I never see these issues discussed in threads like this, and the past few pages really only kept that record going.

And the problem is these can be fought easily if people actively tried to fix these issues. The outcry against the Xbox One announcing DRM created enough backlash to get Microsoft to reconsider, but that's only because enough people lashed out at Microsoft and showed that if they didn't change the problem, they were going to lose a lot of business. Companies that are at fault need to have products boycotted and there needs to be push-back from the community, and sadly this is why I don't care for or agree with GG at all. This GG movement does nothing. The title of this thread and most of the content in it kinda shows where the movement's priorities lie and they're certainly not with making the industry better or preventing the customers from getting cheated out of more money for less content. It's just a group to argue against feminists sitting under the guise of a "movement to improve the gaming industry".


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> What is Randy Pitchford involved in again? Because I guarantee you there is backlash over it.


lol

People don't know their vidyagaems in here.


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> lol
> 
> People don't know their vidyagaems in here.



Something something gearbox, something something they dun fucked up. =P


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> If anything, that confuses me more. Wording it like that makes it sound like GG gave not a care in the world and was fine with these awful corporations flashing their bad business everywhere, but when smaller developers were found out doing something in the same boat and covering it up, that was the sin that could not go unpunished. It just seems like this whole movement's priorities are out of whack and they're not actually tackling any of the issues. A lot of the GG-related threads and content I've seen have pretty much been comprised of nothing but what I've seen on the past few pages; a rampant argument against feminism, constant complaining about "SJWs" and talking about Anita as if she's some sort of relevant icon in feminism or gaming (when she's really not, she's just kind of _there_). I've really never seen a single one of them discuss issues in working in the industry with the corporations or show public outrage at their treatment of employees, the constant lack of content in full-price AAA titles that get released with alongside "Day One" DLC and microtransactions which is just stuff that should have been included in the base game, the overall degrading treatment these companies have towards the customers by constantly rehashing previous titles with little to no work and reselling them as brand new installments, releasing buggy and unfinished games as full price AAA titles and cheating customers out of money, ect. I never see these issues discussed in threads like this, and the past few pages really only kept that record going.
> 
> And the problem is these can be fought easily if people actively tried to fix these issues. The outcry against the Xbox One announcing DRM created enough backlash to get Microsoft to reconsider, but that's only because enough people lashed out at Microsoft and showed that if they didn't change the problem, they were going to lose a lot of business. Companies that are at fault need to have products boycotted and there needs to be push-back from the community, and sadly this is why I don't care for or agree with GG at all. This GG movement does nothing. The title of this thread and most of the content in it kinda shows where the movement's priorities lie and they're certainly not with making the industry better or preventing the customers from getting cheated out of more money for less content. It's just a group to argue against feminists sitting under the guise of a "movement to improve the gaming industry".


While I don't like these practices the big companies practice, you fail to realize that GamerGate started because of a coverup. Though Anita certainly is a problem because she's been heralded by MSNBC, CNN, Time Magazine and quite a few other places as "Gamer's' worst enemy" or something to that effect, a person assailed with such despicable harassment by evil, angry men who despise women, yadda yadda and so forth.

There HAVE been movements to oppose big corporations but that's not what GamerGate was originally about.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> lol
> 
> People don't know their vidyagaems in here.


I already knew he is with Gearbox. Here we go again with you dancing around questions.


----------



## TheArchiver (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> If anything, that confuses me more. Wording it like that makes it sound like GG gave not a care in the world and was fine with these awful corporations flashing their bad business everywhere, but when smaller developers were found out doing something in the same boat and covering it up, that was the sin that could not go unpunished. It just seems like this whole movement's priorities are out of whack and they're not actually tackling any of the issues. A lot of the GG-related threads and content I've seen have pretty much been comprised of nothing but what I've seen on the past few pages; a rampant argument against feminism, constant complaining about "SJWs" and talking about Anita as if she's some sort of relevant icon in feminism or gaming (when she's really not, she's just kind of _there_). I've really never seen a single one of them discuss issues in working in the industry with the corporations or show public outrage at their treatment of employees, the constant lack of content in full-price AAA titles that get released with alongside "Day One" DLC and microtransactions which is just stuff that should have been included in the base game, the overall degrading treatment these companies have towards the customers by constantly rehashing previous titles with little to no work and reselling them as brand new installments, releasing buggy and unfinished games as full price AAA titles and cheating customers out of money, ect. I never see these issues discussed in threads like this, and the past few pages really only kept that record going.
> 
> And the problem is these can be fought easily if people actively tried to fix these issues. The outcry against the Xbox One announcing DRM created enough backlash to get Microsoft to reconsider, but that's only because enough people lashed out at Microsoft and showed that if they didn't change the problem, they were going to lose a lot of business. Companies that are at fault need to have products boycotted and there needs to be push-back from the community, and sadly this is why I don't care for or agree with GG at all. This GG movement does nothing. The title of this thread and most of the content in it kinda shows where the movement's priorities lie and they're certainly not with making the industry better or preventing the customers from getting cheated out of more money for less content. It's just a group to argue against feminists sitting under the guise of a "movement to improve the gaming industry".



I feel this is the most agreeable mindset involving not just GG, but really all sides. One could argue that you can focus on all problems, I'm sure some aligned with GG work to put a stop to AAA publisher corruption. As annoying as SJW's and "feminists" can be, they're not a concern when compared to something like Konami treating their employees like slaves, which I'm willing to bet neither side is putting under a magnifying glass. Rather it's "sexist armor" this, "Anita a shit" that, and "bad journalism" the third. Things that...don't really matter all too much compared to the grievances you've listed.

I can understand the qualms that formed GG, but it's drawn out at this point and frankly unnecessary. Oh how I miss when video games were not so serious...


----------



## Azure (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Every time i see the letters GG, all I can think of is GG Allin

Also I think that this lady takes vidyagamez too srsly

This entire community takes the vidya too srsly


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Azure said:


> Every time i see the letters GG, all I can think of is GG Allin
> 
> Also I think that this lady takes vidyagamez too srsly
> 
> This entire community takes the vidya too srsly



The age old question that never gets a true answer, why so serious?


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Azure said:


> Every time i see the letters GG, all I can think of is GG Allin
> 
> Also I think that this lady takes vidyagamez too srsly
> 
> This entire community takes the vidya too srsly


http://i.imgur.com/RegEJjD.jpg

Normies get out!

At least I _think_â€‹ that's how SJWs view us.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Additionally, I think it's quite funny how people disregard GamerGate as some kind of hate movement when it's actually made a difference despite a coordinated offensive by journalists and websites to shut it down.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I already knew he is with Gearbox. Here we go again with you dancing around questions.


See, this is what bothers me, GGers and similar people accuse Anita or whoever for not knowing anything about games and yet the movement itself knows fuck-all about video games and video games history.

Anita's not a true gamer, but apparently those who don't even keep track on the industry or do the most basic google searches about Randy Pitchford are. That's highly amusing.

Randy is a real scam/con artist.

And you don't even know. Nice ethics there.

Help yourself.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> See, this is what bothers me, GGers and similar people accuse Anita or whoever for not knowing anything about games and yet the movement itself knows fuck-all about video games and video games history.
> 
> Anita's not a true gamer, but apparently those who don't even keep track on the industry or do the most basic google searches about Randy Pitchford are. That's highly amusing.
> 
> ...


That was your perfect chance to lay the smackdown with links to article and evidence. Ya blew it!

I suppose what you're referring to is _Aliens: Colonial Marines_, and that was quite a fiasco and occurred BEFORE GamerGate. You could say GamerGate is the latest iteration of gamers sticking it to the dishonest folk. Here is a timeline to refresh your short and anachronistic memory.


----------



## Azure (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

eat this, feminism

no more free shit

no more cuddles

no more doting

you want equality now?


----------



## TheMetalVelocity (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Anita should attack rap/hip hop artists for legitimately degrading women.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Azure said:


> eat this, feminism
> 
> no more free shit
> 
> ...


While I think MGTOWs are a bit out there, that poster does raise a number of valid points.



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Anita should attack rap/hip hop artists for legitimately degrading women.


Unfortunately it's considered racist to attack a cultural problem. It makes no sense as to why certain political factions in the US refuse to acknowledge problems like this but it;s not like it's going to sort itself out.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> Anita should attack rap/hip hop artists for legitimately degrading women.



yeah she'd only attack white rappers tho.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> While I don't like these practices the big companies practice, you fail to realize that GamerGate started because of a coverup. Though Anita certainly is a problem because she's been heralded by MSNBC, CNN, Time Magazine and quite a few other places as "Gamer's' worst enemy" or something to that effect, a person assailed with such despicable harassment by evil, angry men who despise women, yadda yadda and so forth.
> 
> There HAVE been movements to oppose big corporations but that's not what GamerGate was originally about.



So the thread and things I keep hearing about the movement are incredibly misleading, because they always ramble on about how they're all about "fixing the gaming industry" but in reality they're just exposing a cover-up. Honestly, that's all I even hear about when I hear them talk about their accomplishments. They fall back on the "five guys" thing and that's all I ever hear. Like what are they doing _besides_ starting arguments about feminism and Anita because from the sound of it, they're not really doing much. I don't even see a point to GG, they're just kind of there to ride Anita and go on with the "feminism is ruining games" thing, and apparently aren't even focused on doing anything that would actually improve the industry for gamers.

So my question is, what's even the point of GG?


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> So the thread and things I keep hearing about the movement are incredibly misleading, because they always ramble on about how they're all about "fixing the gaming industry" but in reality they're just exposing a cover-up. Honestly, that's all I even hear about when I hear them talk about their accomplishments. They fall back on the "five guys" thing and that's all I ever hear. Like what are they doing _besides_ starting arguments about feminism and Anita because from the sound of it, they're not really doing much. I don't even see a point to GG, they're just kind of there to ride Anita and go on with the "feminism is ruining games" thing, and apparently aren't even focused on doing anything that would actually improve the industry for gamers.
> 
> So my question is, what's even the point of GG?


What SJWs are and how they affect gaming. I'd be more than happy to go over why Anita and her ilk aren't up to any good. Again.

What GG has accomplished.

GG is about exposing corruption, not really about fixing it. That's up to the companies and journalists to do themselves, and they've taken steps to have their employees divulge any associations they have (Patreon and possible otherwise) with the people or products they review. You can't really say it's not done much when I've pointed out several times that it has.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> What SJWs are and how they affect gaming. I'd be more than happy to go over why Anita and her ilk aren't up to any good. Again.
> 
> What GG has accomplished.
> 
> GG is about exposing corruption, not really about fixing it. That's up to the companies and journalists to do themselves, and they've taken steps to have their employees divulge any associations they have (Patreon and possible otherwise) with the people or products they review. You can't really say it's not done much when I've pointed out several times that it has.



I'm sorry to say that I wont watch the first video you linked as I don't like InternetAristocrat. He's too biased for my tastes, and I don't care for his personality, as he just comes off as too full of himself. So if you have a different video, by all means link it.

The second video was interesting. I'm surprised that I never hear about any of those accomplishments when GG discussions pop up. As I said, all I ever hear about is the "five guys" thing and then a lot of arguing about feminism, so it's hard for me to say it's done much when it seems like no GG discussion talks about that. It might have been pointed out in this thread somewhere, but this thing is like 60+ pages that I've only recently entered, and just seeing the past few pages, it had only confirmed my initial thoughts on GG.

I guess as far as GG is concerned, I don't really care for groups that don't focus moreso on the issues I had brought up earlier. Those industry focused issues are the ones I'm more interested in and want to see resolved and fought against. GG's focus is less of what I'm interested, since it's more focused on journalism and cover-ups. If anything, it kind of strikes me as a journalism against journalism kind of thing. Also, the movement itself just has a lot of very toxic supporters and it makes it hard to take seriously in that regards and that's one of the reasons that media outlets don't cover GG in positive lights. There should be much more of an initiative to ostracize the growing portion of GGers who are giving it a bad reputation, but I don't see that happening too often.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> I'm sorry to say that I wont watch the first video you linked as I don't like InternetAristocrat. He's too biased for my tastes, and I don't care for his personality, as he just comes off as too full of himself. So if you have a different video, by all means link it.
> 
> The second video was interesting. I'm surprised that I never hear about any of those accomplishments when GG discussions pop up. As I said, all I ever hear about is the "five guys" thing and then a lot of arguing about feminism, so it's hard for me to say it's done much when it seems like no GG discussion talks about that. It might have been pointed out in this thread somewhere, but this thing is like 60+ pages that I've only recently entered, and just seeing the past few pages, it had only confirmed my initial thoughts on GG.
> 
> I guess as far as GG is concerned, I don't really care for groups that don't focus moreso on the issues I had brought up earlier. Those industry focused issues are the ones I'm more interested in and want to see resolved and fought against. GG's focus is less of what I'm interested, since it's more focused on journalism and cover-ups. If anything, it kind of strikes me as a journalism against journalism kind of thing. Also, the movement itself just has a lot of very toxic supporters and it makes it hard to take seriously in that regards and that's one of the reasons that media outlets don't cover GG in positive lights. There should be much more of an initiative to ostracize the growing portion of GGers who are giving it a bad reputation, but I don't see that happening too often.


Well, that's your business if you want to plug your ears. It pretty much tells you what they are and what they're about. On top of that, Quinn isn't relevant anymore and she hasn't been discussed in quite a while -- though her and people who sympathize with her keep trying to have that injected into every conversation about GG (GEE almost like what you're doing!). As the the accomplishments, they've been stated before but they're typically ignored because folks like to parrot the party line about how evil and full of harassment GG is, or in your case, calling us "toxic supporters".

On top of that, can you specify what you mean by "the growing portion of GGers who are giving it a bad reputation"? I'm really interested in seeing what this is.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

When you think about it, any sociopolitical movement that has "good intentions" tends to attract the toxic waste. A couple of guys in my art class were GGers and they loved to harp on Anita and Wu to the point where it was annoying. When the "corruption in gaming" like buying reviews comes up or AAA games treating their customer base like toddlers, it always turned full circle about "how women gamers were the problem and how their games were changing to suit the PC libtard crowd".

People have been challenging the game companies and AAA games treating gamers like shit (Like EA and DRM when sim city came out and the bugs that came with the game upon release which took a month to officially address) and skewing bad game reviews to get money. Yet, GG to outsiders looks like a bunch of guys harping on the vaginas queefing on their Call of Duty. Unfortunately, that's what the toxic minority has done.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 4, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Well, that's your business if you want to plug your ears. It pretty much tells you what they are and what they're about. On top of that, Quinn isn't relevant anymore and she hasn't been discussed in quite a while -- though her and people who sympathize with her keep trying to have that injected into every conversation about GG (GEE almost like what you're doing!). As the the accomplishments, they've been stated before but they're typically ignored because folks like to parrot the party line about how evil and full of harassment GG is, or in your case, calling us "toxic supporters".
> 
> On top of that, can you specify what you mean by "the growing portion of GGers who are giving it a bad reputation"? I'm really interested in seeing what this is.



It's not so much "plugging the ears" as me stating that I don't enjoy the commentary of that one individual. So, I'm guessing by your reply that he's the only one who can explain the correlation between "SJWs" and "ruining games", which is a little upsetting. You'd think a movement that big would have a video or article written by someone else, but maybe I'm wrong. I mean, if you can provide a different source, by all means I'll give it a look.

Also, not sure why you brought up Quinn, I haven't mentioned her once since I've been in here. I've mentioned Anita a few times since she's always the focus of these GG discussions, but never Zoe Quinn (unless they're the same person and I'm just confused). I dump them into the same boat as Anita, being irrelevant to any game industry or movement since a lot of people regard them as radical and don't really acknowledge them as much as a lot of GGers do.

If you want to know what I mean by the GGers giving a bad reputation, refer back to that term "toxic supporters". First off, you seem to assume I referred to you as a toxic supporter, and that isn't the case. If you read what I said, I said "the movement has a lot of toxic supporters" and at no point directed that towards anyone, so if you took that as a personal shot, that's more or less where you see yourself in relation to what I said. When I'm talking about toxic supporters, I am talking about those people prioritizing the criticism of feminism and similar movements over issues in gaming in what's supposed to be a gaming movement, getting into vehement arguments about it and making it 90% of their GG arguments to where it's the only thing I see when looking at GG-related content. It's the supporters like that that are giving it this reputation of being "evil and harassing" because people like me come across GG discussions and that's all we see are these arguments and not much on gaming issues. It's more or less that those supporters are usually the loudest, so people associate the movement with them more so than the others.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> That was your perfect chance to lay the smackdown with links to article and evidence. Ya blew it!
> 
> I suppose what you're referring to is _Aliens: Colonial Marines_, and that was quite a fiasco and occurred BEFORE GamerGate. You could say GamerGate is the latest iteration of gamers sticking it to the dishonest folk. Here is a timeline to refresh your short and anachronistic memory.


So GG didn't care about corruption and ethics in gaming until a woman allegedly slept with the wrong person.

rofl

Also, Randy Pitchford has consistently been a dick long after GG, a slimy little douchebag. He's the scam artist GG forgot.

Oh, and Anita Sarkeesian started doing her thing before GG.

Does not compute.

*EDIT:*
I suppose I should play nice and try helping out. Here's a good analysis of the lies about Aliens: Colonial Marines.

And here is Randy Pitchford lying and deflecting all criticism about how he tried to sell a false product.

He has never apologized for his lies, for his attempt to trick people into buying a game that was much shittier than it looked like in the E3 2011 demo.

And a shorter version with highlights of his bullshit.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> It's not so much "plugging the ears" as me stating that I don't enjoy the commentary of that one individual. So, I'm guessing by your reply that he's the only one who can explain the correlation between "SJWs" and "ruining games", which is a little upsetting. You'd think a movement that big would have a video or article written by someone else, but maybe I'm wrong. I mean, if you can provide a different source, by all means I'll give it a look.
> 
> Also, not sure why you brought up Quinn, I haven't mentioned her once since I've been in here. I've mentioned Anita a few times since she's always the focus of these GG discussions, but never Zoe Quinn (unless they're the same person and I'm just confused). I dump them into the same boat as Anita, being irrelevant to any game industry or movement since a lot of people regard them as radical and don't really acknowledge them as much as a lot of GGers do.
> 
> If you want to know what I mean by the GGers giving a bad reputation, refer back to that term "toxic supporters". First off, you seem to assume I referred to you as a toxic supporter, and that isn't the case. If you read what I said, I said "the movement has a lot of toxic supporters" and at no point directed that towards anyone, so if you took that as a personal shot, that's more or less where you see yourself in relation to what I said. When I'm talking about toxic supporters, I am talking about those people prioritizing the criticism of feminism and similar movements over issues in gaming in what's supposed to be a gaming movement, getting into vehement arguments about it and making it 90% of their GG arguments to where it's the only thing I see when looking at GG-related content. It's the supporters like that that are giving it this reputation of being "evil and harassing" because people like me come across GG discussions and that's all we see are these arguments and not much on gaming issues. It's more or less that those supporters are usually the loudest, so people associate the movement with them more so than the others.



Not liking someone doesn't make their point invalid. Though Sarkeesian and Leigh Alexander might be some figures you want to look at in relation to this. Additionally, criticizing Anita & friends is not being toxic and detracting from the movement. I don't see how you can disconnect these things can call it a rise in toxic supports. WHERE are these toxic people? Are they toxic because they don't like Feminism or social justice and make arguments for it? These are the parameters you have set, and I fall into these parameters. Now, I'm not taking offense. I'm just pointing out that you're calling criticism and differing ideas toxic.

I think it's interesting that you brought up Five Guys and said that's what you normally see discussed, whereas I've only seen it brought up by the anti-GG side.



Kellie Gator said:


> So GG didn't care about corruption and ethics in gaming until a woman allegedly slept with the wrong person.
> 
> rofl
> 
> ...



Sarkeesian pretty much collected a bunch of money to do a number of videos and has since failed to deliver upon these videos. Seeing how they purposely misrepresent gaming and has taken to the media to create a false narrative against GamerGate in order to defame and dismiss us, so naturally GG has taken issue with it. I've seen discussing on Anthony Birch but I admit I haven't seen much on Randy Pitchford, though I'm really not in support of what he's doing. Journalists not revealing their relationships when promoting each other's projects? That's something I also take issue with.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/3fr4qv/why_office_air_conditioning_is_sexist/

Air conditioning is sexist, apparently.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 5, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> So GG didn't care about corruption and ethics in gaming until a woman allegedly slept with the wrong person.
> 
> rofl
> 
> ...



A: CM was a shitty piece of shit game that tried to appeal to the CoD fans. Duke Nukem is shit, too.

Also, the Watchdogs graphics downgrade: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...-there-really-a-watch-dogs-graphics-downgrade

It took a bunch of modders to fix that. People expected a high def version of what they saw at e3 2012 to run on their PCs and utilize the processors and graphics cards the PS4 and Xbone has. Instead, Ubisoft gave people the downgraded version.

And do not get me started on Ubisoft....


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Journalists not revealing their relationships when promoting each other's projects?


Why should they?

This stuff shouldn't be anyone's business but of course Mr. Gjoni needed to have a little man-period and call a bunch of basement dwelling losers to arms.

Also, Anita's videos are still being worked on, it's just taking longer because the funding was more than expected along with other factors we might or might not be aware of, like, you know, fleeing her home.



Ozriel said:


> A: CM was a shitty piece of shit game that tried to appeal to the CoD fans. Duke Nukem is shit, too.
> 
> Also, the Watchdogs graphics downgrade: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...-there-really-a-watch-dogs-graphics-downgrade
> 
> ...


Shut up, you fool. A woman's dating life is clearly far more important.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Why should they?
> 
> This stuff shouldn't be anyone's business but of course Mr. Gjoni needed to have a little man-period and call a bunch of basement dwelling losers to arms.
> 
> Also, Anita's videos are still being worked on, it's just taking longer because the funding was more than expected along with other factors we might or might not be aware of, like, you know, fleeing her home.


http://i.imgur.com/7uFlCfc.png

We've already been over this and I'm not going to go over it again with you. Dismiss Eron all you want to and downplay "friends with benefits" journalism all you like because apparently that's all you _can_ do.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> http://i.imgur.com/7uFlCfc.png
> 
> We've already been over this and I'm not going to go over it again with you. Dismiss Eron all you want to and downplay "friends with benefits" journalism all you like because apparently that's all you _can_ do.


I can't take take you seriously, you respond to everything with fucking imgur links and thinking you're so clever. That's quite mastubatory, good sir.

If you want to mock me then do so but apparently you lack the wit to even use your own retort, so you resort to your endless archive of convenient memes. You really suck at this, you know. :3c


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You seem upset at the use of reaction images.

 Good. Keep on goading, I'm not interested in bait.


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

*looks at Kellie and Zuriak* Just fu----ki-----stahp already!!!! 

This has turned into a never ending roundabout, it was highly amusing but even that is starting to wear off now, feels like you are just upping the post count, granted I've upped mine by replying but thats besides the point! D: :V  I'm pretty sure this cycle of similar sounding posts has repeated several times over.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> *looks at Kellie and Zuriak* Just fu----ki-----stahp already!!!!
> 
> This has turned into a never ending roundabout, it was highly amusing but even that is starting to wear off now, feels like you are just upping the post count, granted I've upped mine by replying but thats besides the point! D: :V  I'm pretty sure this cycle of similar sounding posts has repeated several times over.


  if the troll would stop repeating nonsense then 
zuriak wouldn't need to defend. the skunk is just here to piss people off not have a conversation.


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> if the troll would stop repeating nonsense then
> zuriak wouldn't need to defend. the skunk is just here to piss people off not have a conversation.



But at the same time you could just choose to ignore Kellie's comments and keep within your own discussion =p, you don't have to rise to the challenge x3 aren't you effectively committing the taboo of the feeding the troll by replying to her remarks?


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> But at the same time you could just choose to ignore Kellie's comments and keep within your own discussion =p, you don't have to rise to the challenge x3 aren't you effectively committing the taboo of the feeding the troll by replying to her remarks?



hey dont look at me XD i stopped responding to the bullshit loooooooong ago.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I don't even know what gamergate and this thread is about anymore, is it about Anita Sarkeesian's video series, Zoe Quinn's personal life, journalists saying the wrong things or... what?

It can't be all of the all of the above unless you can make a logical connection between 'em.

And if you wanna talk ethics in gaming, look up The Stomping Land. It's a game where the developers LITERALLY stopped developing a game and ran away with the money.

GG keeps missing the really good stories and ethical problems in games because GG is men wanting to be involved in the personal lives of a woman or two.


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> hey dont look at me XD i stopped responding to the bullshit loooooooong ago.



It was just a general thing aimed at everyone XD


----------



## sidewalksurfboard (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Good god, reading all this gave me a major headache. One side is acting like a brick wall, and the other side is providing facts and evidence. This thread has taught me who to avoid.


----------



## Lomberdia (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> But at the same time you could just choose to ignore Kellie's comments and keep within your own discussion =p, you don't have to rise to the challenge x3 aren't you effectively committing the taboo of the feeding the troll by replying to her remarks?


The only winning move is not to play.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> The only winning move is not to play.


"Greetings, Professor Falken."
"Hello, Joshua."
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"

That was a great movie, I should watch it again.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> But at the same time you could just choose to ignore Kellie's comments and keep within your own discussion =p, you don't have to rise to the challenge x3 aren't you effectively committing the taboo of the feeding the troll by replying to her remarks?


It was more responding to Kaizy, and then Kellie on the side followed by a disengagement. But, point taken.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



sidewalksurfboard said:


> Good god, reading all this gave me a major headache. One side is acting like a brick wall, and the other side is providing facts and evidence. This thread has taught me who to avoid.



yeah your better off ignoring the crazy


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Damn, she caught us! Shiobear, what did I tell you about leaving you Patriarchy Membership card laying around willy nilly?
> 
> Typically things need controversy else they fizzle out; GamerGate started because of a large scale cover up. I don't believe Activision tried to cover anything up with their Mountain Dew and Doritos tie ins with Call of Duty, or Microsoft in the same boat with Halo. Seriously, google the Dorito Pope. There is some backlash over journalists that give good reviews because they've been buttered up.
> 
> What is Randy Pitchford involved in again? Because I guarantee you there is backlash over it.



lol this thread has turned into this dude and shio just jerking each other off, spouting the same shit.

delete thread now plox


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> lol this thread has turned into this dude and shio just jerking each other off, spouting the same shit.
> 
> delete thread now plox



I can't. Post some shock images and I may consider this. :V


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 6, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> if the troll would stop repeating nonsense then
> zuriak wouldn't need to defend. the skunk is just here to piss people off not have a conversation.


So I was right u don't know jack shit about cultural marxism "better hit him w/ a trollface off imgur" never fails.
I've been actively posting on /v/ since I was 16 and I'm so glad I was always able to distance myself from this shit. 





Ozriel said:


> I can't. Post some shock images and I may consider this. :V



Dragoneer isn't going to crucify you if this thread just suddenly disappeared, it's just an eyesore at this point. Look, the dude is throwing trollfaces at me. Those pictures trigger my cringing


----------



## Attaman (Aug 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Ozriel said:


> Yet, GG to outsiders looks like a bunch of guys harping on the vaginas queefing on their Call of Duty. Unfortunately, that's what the toxic minority has done.


Fortunately, we don't have merely looks to go off re:GG. We have their actions, movements they've allied themselves with, mainline rhetoric, and previous member behavior to go off. Plus, majority (from within large groups / concentrations) actions.

They, predominantly, *are* a bunch of guys harping on vaginas queefing on their Call of Duty. Fool me once (the total shredding of Anita Sarkeesian that only slowed when some of their members went so far as to _send her child porn_ and _repeated death threats_), shame on you. Fool me twice (the explosion that was Zoe Quinn, which also only stopped because the members involved in the discussions made Trump look modest and reserved during last night's debate), shame on me. Fool me _nine times_ (Mass exodus to sites like 8chan, the complete ignoring the _Shadows of Mordor_ thing to instead take potshots at things such as Tim Schaefer approving Sarkeesian's videos, the pushing of "#Metalgate" as a thing to forcibly annex metal heads, the whole Sad Puppy & Hugo Awards ordeal, attempting to capitalize on Satoru Iwata's death to spark a fresh wave of Anita Sarkeesian hate, the outright dropping of this point of "Corruption in Gaming Journalism" and "Feminism / Liberalism" not being synonymous codewords, and - one of my favorites - the fiery need to disprove a survey touted at the GDC 2015 that said "Young gamers wouldn't mind more female protagonists and less sexualized designs for them", burninggood PR solely to label more journalists as members of the corrupt SJW menace), and I deserve a big fat "DUNCE" cap.

#GG, or at least main branch #GG, is no more a "well intentioned" movement than Men's Rights Activists. Are there - arguably-  sub-movements within that either - by coincidence or purposeful design - actually do what they're claiming to do, if not try to act as forces of good? Yes. There are. But coincidentally, again just like the benevolent "MRA" groups, one of three things tends to happen with these movements:
1) They're turned upon for not being radical enough. Outright disowned, attacked as being part of the enemy, etcetera. While they weren't a force of good by _any_ stretch of the term, look at how the Sarkeesian Effect pair (make that ten times) split apart and the more "moderate" of the two was _actively __vilified / cannibalized _for putting his foot down when their partner went full MRA mouthpiece / Super Fedora Level 2. 
2) They radicalize and eventually join in with the crowd / mob, often times even actively disavowing their prior actions. 
3) They eventually realize they're not among like company, and one of the above two is their likely future, and they break away before that can happen. Bonus points if they take screens / recordings on their way out, double-or-nothing if they aren't called whipped / brainwashed traitors.

When you're being directly supported / endorsed by the like of Baen Books and Brietbart, it's well past the point of thinking "Something's fishy" and instead time to dive deeply and unabashedly into introspection and self-evaluation.


----------



## Lomberdia (Aug 7, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

As long I still get my DoA hyper tit physics graphics, I don't care. I want my females sexy as fuck. 

They can be the main character, side bitch, random NPC, whatever but as long I have that, fuck what anybody else has to say because I'm happy.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> As long I still get my DoA hyper tit physics graphics, I don't care. I want my females sexy as fuck.
> 
> They can be the main character, side bitch, random NPC, whatever but as long I have that, fuck what anybody else has to say because I'm happy.


yup exactly, vote with your wallet.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> As long I still get my DoA hyper tit physics graphics, I don't care. I want my females sexy as fuck.
> 
> They can be the main character, side bitch, random NPC, whatever but as long I have that, fuck what anybody else has to say because I'm happy.


Why not just watch porn if that's what you want?


----------



## Lomberdia (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

In porn, you can't control her. You can't make her kickass or kick her ass. Can't customize or do the billions of other things you can do in video games. Plus...real life monster girls don't exist. If I want sexy beast girls kicking each other's ass, video games it is.


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Let's just give both sides some blunt objects and leave them in a ring. The side that let's themselves get beat to a pulp holds the moral high ground. :V


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> In porn, you can't control her. You can't make her kickass or kick her ass. Can't customize or do the billions of other things you can do in video games. Plus...real life monster girls don't exist. If I want sexy beast girls kicking each other's ass, video games it is.



lol dont you find the whole "i dont like it so your not allowed to play it" mentality just a bit 3rd grade? i agree if you want to have a sexy fighting game you should be able to have it.   if the cunt behind me in the ice cream shop tells me i cant have sprinkles because sprinkles are wrong im still getting sprinkles, fuck it im getting extra.


the world is moving backwards, i hope an alien race invades  us for being a bunch of whiny privileged babies. the world is so politically correct now its disgusting. whiny moms crying about princess leya dolls,  cunty SJW's complaining about a shirt a person wears,  1st world baby's crying about how your game isn't catering to every whim and fancy they hold.  its the new era of the thought police.  a man gets banned from the internet for trying to have a debate with an idiot. this world is going to shit.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Attaman said:


> Fortunately, we don't have merely looks to go off re:GG. We have their actions, movements they've allied themselves with, mainline rhetoric, and previous member behavior to go off. Plus, majority (from within large groups / concentrations) actions.
> 
> They, predominantly, *are* a bunch of guys harping on vaginas queefing on their Call of Duty. Fool me once (the total shredding of Anita Sarkeesian that only slowed when some of their members went so far as to _send her child porn_ and _repeated death threats_), shame on you. Fool me twice (the explosion that was Zoe Quinn, which also only stopped because the members involved in the discussions made Trump look modest and reserved during last night's debate), shame on me. Fool me _nine times_ (Mass exodus to sites like 8chan, the complete ignoring the _Shadows of Mordor_ thing to instead take potshots at things such as Tim Schaefer approving Sarkeesian's videos, the pushing of "#Metalgate" as a thing to forcibly annex metal heads, the whole Sad Puppy & Hugo Awards ordeal, attempting to capitalize on Satoru Iwata's death to spark a fresh wave of Anita Sarkeesian hate, the outright dropping of this point of "Corruption in Gaming Journalism" and "Feminism / Liberalism" not being synonymous codewords, and - one of my favorites - the fiery need to disprove a survey touted at the GDC 2015 that said "Young gamers wouldn't mind more female protagonists and less sexualized designs for them", burninggood PR solely to label more journalists as members of the corrupt SJW menace), and I deserve a big fat "DUNCE" cap.
> 
> ...



http://i.imgur.com/9MA78cF.jpg

This spiel again. You first have to prove that we're angry about vaginas in our Call of Duty. Secondly, again, stop talking about harassment because everyone has gotten it and even the FBI investigated a person for a false flag operation. Professional victims and trolls alike try to exploit the movement, look at Anita and Briana Wu. Thirdly, the moving to 8Chan was a result of m00t squashing all GG discussion and even being in cahoots with Anita. Fourthly, what the hell is #MetalGate? I wouldn't take it seriously, have you read what it's about? Of course you did -- you brought it up and tried to rationalize it as part of an argument against GG. I don't even see what it has to do with GamerGate, besides it's apparently against SJWs who are against metal. Fifthly, people fall for modified or photoshopped tweets all the time. Sixthly, that sample size for the GCD 2015 survey is too small, but you're operating under the premise that female protagonists aren't wanted, or why sexualization even matters. Will Chun Li's thighs influence how we treat women? Kerrigan's form-fitting carapace? The Dead or Alive girls? People can generally differentiate between fantasy and reality so I'm having a hard time understanding the viewpoint of "I don't like sexualized women!" when there's both existing in video games, or even plenty of women is video games to begin with. Now, if they were to shoehorn bikini babes in Battlefield? That I'd be against because it's blatantly out of character for the game and is just stupid as they serve no place in a theater of war. Put a hard-nosed and competent female CO in Battlefield 4? No one complains, and they shouldn't.

As for the rest of your post concerning the three bullet points, every group will have member who are hyper-dedicated to their movement, and members who have been ejected or move to other groups in opposition to this -- you're acting like MRAs are in association with this group, completely forgetting about #NotYourShield. Actually, it's almost too convenient that you'd forget that and employ revisionist history in order to try and discredit GamerGate as men hating vaginas in their video games. Is MRA being used an an insult in some sort of guilt by association? Help me out here.


----------



## Attaman (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> This spiel again. You first have to prove that we're angry about vaginas in our Call of Duty.


 The inability for #GG to stop talking about vaginas and women is something of a clue-in, especially since it has _absolutely shit-all to do with a supposed corruption within gaming and gaming journalism._



Zuriak said:


> Professional victims and trolls alike try to exploit the movement, look at Anita and Briana Wu.


 So, to get this straight: #Gamergate sends a _fresh_ wave of death threats, batches of child porn, harasses police officers doggedly and has _tried reporting her to the FBI_ in the hope of them finding something to slap her with, attempts to turn the death of Nintendo's president into a fresh wave of anti-Sarkseesian hate, and so-onâ€¦ and she's a "professional victim" trying to exploit the movement? Really? *Really**?*



Zuriak said:


> Thirdly, the moving to 8Chan was a result of m00t squashing all GG discussion and even being in cahoots with Anita.


 I think I don't even need to present a counter-argument to this one. But just for those unaware: It's oft touted by the sorts that think /pol/ is the last bastion of freedom on a site overrun and stolen from them by SJW's. 



Zuriak said:


> Fourthly, what the hell is #MetalGate? I wouldn't take it seriously, have you read what it's about? Of course you did -- you brought it up and tried to rationalize it as part of an argument against GG. I don't even see what it has to do with GamerGate, besides it's apparently against SJWs who are against metal.


 From "I totally haven't heard of it and you shouldn't take it silly" to "I know more about what it is than you do. It's the good fight against SJWs against metal" in _three sentence_. Magnificent. Also, for those who would like actual context: There was an online "Top something-or-another Metal Songs of [Year]" list from a solitary site that had a single off-handed comment about lyrics and metal-heads and whatnot that was vaguely offensive to the #GG crowd. Their response was to immediately try whipping them up into a joint, pro-#GG furor to extend the fight to their community, going so far as to have a bunch of people draw Vivian and the Iron Maiden's Eddie in a joint-assault. Needless to say: Outside #GGers, the movement'sâ€¦ pretty much gone nowhere. Because frankly - unlike a certain other fandom demographic - most consumers can't give a rats ass about a solitary sentence in a solitary article part of a _Top Song_ list, and have better things to do than shout "Skeletons in the trees!". 



Zuriak said:


> Fifthly, people fall for modified or photoshopped tweets all the time.


 That you ignored the Hugo Award drama entirely as a lost cause to contend is, in itself, telling. That your defense of the "Use Iwata's death to try forming a lynch-mob for Anita" is "lol it's how the internet is", which - coincidentally - seems to be _#Gamergate's tried and true defense over death-threats and harassment online in general_, is similarly telling.



Zuriak said:


> Sixthly, that sample size for the GCD 2015 survey is too small,


 You're the first to broach this argument to me, and considering the number of takers that's claimed (as another note: #GGers have their jimmies mighty-rustled that they're following _fairly standard _polling practices and keeping the majority of information either confidential or solely shared amongst peers instead of publicly released) that is a _very_ tenuous argument to make considering academically accredited US Demographical surveys have been considered with comparable or slightly higher / lower numbers.



Zuriak said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding the viewpoint of "I don't like sexualized women!" when there's both existing in video games,


 Remember what I said about behavior and rhetoric to go off, Ozriel? Well, here's a reminder of it if you don't.



Zuriak said:


> or even plenty of women is video games to begin with.


 Totally a parity that matches the fact that adult women make up the largest demographic of gamers, and females ~45-50% of the population overall.



Zuriak said:


> Put a hard-nosed and competent female CO in Battlefield 4? No one complains, and they shouldn't.


 Make the berserker or gunslinger a female in _Warframe_ and _the forum swears bloody murder on the developers_. Watch a _forum moderator_ comment how they'd like to see the protagonist of a _Megaman_ spiritual sequel be female and there be _war_ among the fan base over whether it stomps on the legacy or not. Have Jennifer Hepler _anywhere near_ the design team and _watch her receive alarmingly accurate death-threats regarding her children and their place of education._



Zuriak said:


> Actually, it's almost too convenient that you'd forget that and employ revisionist history in order to try and discredit GamerGate as men hating vaginas in their video games. Is MRA being used an an insult in some sort of guilt by association? Help me out here.


 Ignoring attempt to pin me as a purposefully disingenuous and unreliable source, as well as propping up a hashtag that was predominantly composed in its early days of sockpuppet #GG accounts, yes. MRA is being used as an insult, and the association comes from #GG gleefully embracing its rhetoric and support and repeating its talking points _verbatim_ up to and including "I'm not a sexist feminist but an honorable humanist!" and "See these isolated examples women agree with us? Proof that feminism is evil and wrong / MRAs and #GG aren't sexist / there are no problems with gaming outside SJW's attacking on all fronts".


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Attaman said:


> The inability for #GG to stop talking about vaginas and women is something of a clue-in, especially since it has _absolutely shit-all to do with a supposed corruption within gaming and gaming journalism._


GG talks about it because it's accused of being misogynist. You can't claim that most of the movement is men who don't want women in video games. Where are you getting this?



Attaman said:


> So, to get this straight: #Gamergate sends a _fresh_ wave of death threats, batches of child porn, harasses police officers doggedly and has _tried reporting her to the FBI_ in the hope of them finding something to slap her with, attempts to turn the death of Nintendo's president into a fresh wave of anti-Sarkseesian hate, and so-onâ€¦ and she's a "professional victim" trying to exploit the movement? Really? *Really**?*


Yes. All the major figures have received such responses, but you only see a handful on only one side playing the professional victimhood. 'Look at how evil GamerGate it, it's attacking women!' has been the media narrative for the past year with all criticism and debate being swept away under the guise that all GG is, is hating on women. Citation needed.



Attaman said:


> I think I don't even need to present a counter-argument to this one. But just for those unaware: It's oft touted by the sorts that think /pol/ is the last bastion of freedom on a site overrun and stolen from them by SJW's.


I don't like 4chan, especially /pol/. However m00t and his mods actively moved to squash any discussion of GamerGate, which sparked the movement to 8Chan. Again, citation needed if you're going to say otherwise.



Attaman said:


> From "I totally haven't heard of it and you shouldn't take it silly" to "I know more about what it is than you do. It's the good fight against SJWs against metal" in _three sentence_. Magnificent. Also, for those who would like actual context: There was an online "Top something-or-another Metal Songs of [Year]" list from a solitary site that had a single off-handed comment about lyrics and metal-heads and whatnot that was vaguely offensive to the #GG crowd. Their response was to immediately try whipping them up into a joint, pro-#GG furor to extend the fight to their community, going so far as to have a bunch of people draw Vivian and the Iron Maiden's Eddie in a joint-assault. Needless to say: Outside #GGers, the movement'sâ€¦ pretty much gone nowhere. Because frankly - unlike a certain other fandom demographic - most consumers can't give a rats ass about a solitary sentence in a solitary article part of a _Top Song_ list, and have better things to do than shout "Skeletons in the trees!".


I never claimed they were fighting the good fight, only that it seems like a fringe movement that you're using to discredit GamerGate with through a guilt by association fallacy; GamerGater = bad, so MetalGate = bad too!

Though it seems the fervor seems justified as SPIN; since when has metal been conservative, and what does it have to do with "racism, politics and feminism" and a comment to being on "the right side of history"? There's been backlash when the media called metal satanic, so why shouldn't there be if they call it by such non-progressive things? Admittedly I haven't seen much about this at all and apparently it blew up shortly after GG began.



Attaman said:


> That you ignored the Hugo Award drama entirely as a lost cause to contend is, in itself, telling. That your defense of the "Use Iwata's death to try forming a lynch-mob for Anita" is "lol it's how the internet is", which - coincidentally - seems to be _#Gamergate's tried and true defense over death-threats and harassment online in general_, is similarly telling.


I simply didn't address it as I had bigger things to contend with, but sure, I'll play. Apparently the system has accused GG-related groups of marginalizing women and authors of color, never mind that they're science fiction enthusiasts voting for whom they think have merit. Personally I have no problem with a system based upon meritocracy. Though calling it a lynch mob is horrendously disingenuous, the internet has quite the mob mentality but there's no lynch mob for Anita Sarkeesian. Stop with the lies.



Attaman said:


> You're the first to broach this argument to me, and considering the number of takers that's claimed (as another note: #GGers have their jimmies mighty-rustled that they're following _fairly standard _polling practices and keeping the majority of information either confidential or solely shared amongst peers instead of publicly released) that is a _very_ tenuous argument to make considering academically accredited US Demographical surveys have been considered with comparable or slightly higher / lower numbers.
> 
> Remember what I said about behavior and rhetoric to go off, Ozriel? Well, here's a reminder of it if you don't.
> 
> ...


1. It depends on what the prompt was, though the sample size was ~1800. The argument is NOT tenuous, that's a very low figure.
2. False narrative that gamers are against women in gaming. Who cares if a protagonist is male or female. As I mentioned, don't shoehorn anything in and you're golden.
3. "Remember what I said about behavior and rhetoric to go off, Ozriel? Well, here's a reminder of it if you don't." Why is it bad to have sexy characters, or at least portrayed in a desireable light? Folks like to complain about features -- how is it harmful? Accuse me of rhetoric all you like, I just want a straight answer.
4. You'll have a vocal and toxic minority in any movement, and I have conceded and agreed with this point many times in this thread. Though the part about Mighty Number 9, the person they appointed to be their community manager was hired on for the purpose of designing robots and for community relations. Internet Aristocrat covered this point nicely. As for Hepler, I'm not quite sure I buy into the controversy that's people are mad because she has a vagina.
5. The article you linked doesn't talk about percentages of gamers broken down by gender. Honestly I'm not surprised shooters have more men in them.



Attaman said:


> Ignoring attempt to pin me as a purposefully disingenuous and unreliable source, as well as propping up a hashtag that was predominantly composed in its early days of sockpuppet #GG accounts, yes. MRA is being used as an insult, and the association comes from #GG gleefully embracing its rhetoric and support and repeating its talking points _verbatim_ up to and including "I'm not a sexist feminist but an honorable humanist!" and "See these isolated examples women agree with us? Proof that feminism is evil and wrong / MRAs and #GG aren't sexist / there are no problems with gaming outside SJW's attacking on all fronts".


Okay, can you elaborate on how #NotYourShield is comprised of sockpuppet accounts? Have you actually evidence of this instead of propaganda and dismissal because it disagrees with the SJW agenda? Because what it looks like is people not letting minority gamers speak for themselves. So many sock puppets.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> lol dont you find the whole "i dont like it so your not allowed to play it" mentality just a bit 3rd grade? i agree if you want to have a sexy fighting game you should be able to have it.   if the cunt behind me in the ice cream shop tells me i cant have sprinkles because sprinkles are wrong im still getting sprinkles, fuck it im getting extra.



Yes, imagine how annoying it must be when someone behind you in the icecream shop tells you that sprinkles are shit.
And when you tell them they're being an annoying cuntwaffle they start whining about how "they were just voicing their opinion and that you're butthurt and defending sprinkles like OMG!".


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Lomberdia said:


> In porn, you can't control her. You can't make her kickass or kick her ass. Can't customize or do the billions of other things you can do in video games. Plus...real life monster girls don't exist. If I want sexy beast girls kicking each other's ass, video games it is.



it's called porn games nerd, have you ever even been on newgrounds?


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Yes, imagine how annoying it must be when someone behind you in the icecream shop tells you that sprinkles are shit.
> And when you tell them they're being an annoying cuntwaffle they start whining about how "they were just voicing their opinion and that you're butthurt and defending sprinkles like OMG!".


i will defend mah sprinkles to the DEATH!


----------



## Attaman (Aug 9, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> GG talks about it because it's accused of being misogynist.


 Which obviously, totally came out of a vacuum and was a random - 100%, "I can't believe someone would even think this" - potshot that somehow managed to stuck, made solely to discredit the movement.

Alternatively, it's because it can't go a few days without making things about somebody's vagina or someone agreeing with someone who has a vagina.



Zuriak said:


> You can't claim that most of the movement is men who don't want women in video games. Where are you getting this?


 This is true, yes. I am running off anecdotal - versus statistical - information when it comes to #GG demographics. However, basing my experiences or logs between forums and websites that have roughly: 1,300 active members online at a given time, ~800 active members online at a given time, ~300 to ~500 online at a given time, and then ones with unknown unique demographics (ex: 8chan), plus the fact that this is concurrent activity versus spread, the actions of a few hundred #GGers can be considered quite representative of a population several OoM that (a ~650 sampling size can represent roughly 20,000 persons with a 99% level of confidence and less than a 5% margin of error).

Coincidentally, amongst those forums and websites, the majority of observed users with a given sex are male, and they make / This / Like / whatever helpful comments that can be tl;dr'd as "Keep your women out of my vidya games / keep the women how *I* would like them". 



Zuriak said:


> Yes. All the major figures have received such responses, but you only see a handful on only one side playing the professional victimhood. 'Look at how evil GamerGate it, it's attacking women!' has been the media narrative for the past year with all criticism and debate being swept away under the guise that all GG is, is hating on women. Citation needed.


 You do not want to play the game of "citation needed" regarding Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, and so-on getting a lot of shit from #GG. Trust me: You really, _really_ don't. 



Zuriak said:


> However m00t and his mods actively moved to squash any discussion of GamerGate,


Coincidentally, people like their sites not being taken down and being taken into lawsuits over slander. Also coincidentally, this was _exactly_ what was happening. Even more coincidentally, people typically don't like circle-jerking mobs running amok over their forums, and most coincidentally of all, #GG was removed because at the time it was banned that was _exactly_ what the Zoe Quinn controversy was proving to be (remember how many of the allegations were proven false, for example?). 

And for someone trying to say #GG is not about someone's vagina, you seem awfully willing to believe in the narrative "Anita paid off / used sexual favors / somehow bewitched m00t into banning the discussion from 4chan solely to cover her and her Shadow Cabal friends' asses".



Zuriak said:


> I never claimed they were fighting the good fight, only that it seems like a fringe movement that you're using to discredit GamerGate with through a guilt by association fallacy; GamerGater = bad, so MetalGate = bad too!


 Disregarding that you just mixed up your analogy: 1) Yes, MetalGate and GamerGate are both bad; 2) They very much are interconnected since major Gamergate-rs have directly endorsed MetalGate and continued to do so even after it was shown to be a hilarious train wreck, and aforementioned major Gamergate-rs have _also_ gone on the record as stating that one of the main goals - after successfully purging Gaming Journalism - would be to _purge the SJW menace from other forms of media, coincidentally shortly before propping up #MetalGate_.



Zuriak said:


> Admittedly I haven't seen much about this at all and apparently it blew up shortly after GG began.


 It was created after #GG was made, and for a tl;dr you won't find a much better summary of events than here



Zuriak said:


> Apparently the system has accused


 Accused nothing: They outright, blatantly, directly, no-strings-attached _did _do such. The Sad Puppy campaign has outright, thoroughly _shredded_ the credibility of the system, and was in no ways a meritocracy: A number of the pieces nominated included fictional works intended to be outright hit-pieces on the author's critics (a few of Tom Kratman's nominations being more obvious examples), and the whole purpose of the nomination process was to pool votes to buy out the competition to make a message of, and I'm barely paraphrasing here, "Show the SJW's we won't go silently into the night!" Because as we all know - along with professors, video game designers / journalists, internet commentators, 4chan staff, scientists, politicians, and a number of other demographics - science fiction and its author pool is overrun by the skeletal menace.



Zuriak said:


> the internet has quite the mob mentality but there's no lynch mob for Anita Sarkeesian. Stop with the lies.


 Fun fact: The FBI has already got involved. In Sarkeesian's favor. Unless you wish to claim that _the FBI_ are somehow under her payroll too, it's a bit too late to claim "She's making shit up", as - to be blunt - their standard for looking into things like death threats and harassment and whatnot are _pretty fucking high _compared to even regular law enforcement.

Also, the reason I mentioned "In Sarkeesian's favor" - for those unaware - is that #Gamergate members contacted the FBI too when news of rampant death-threats, child-porn sending to her email inbox, and so-on was going on. It was to try and pin on her false death-threats and attempts to incite panic and whatnot and have them prosecute _her_, and there was a great ruckus of applause amongst the major #GG sites / circles at the news, patting of shoulders and beaming of faces.

But remember, she's just talented at playing the (fake-)victim.



Zuriak said:


> 1. It depends on what the prompt was, though the sample size was ~1800. The argument is NOT tenuous, that's a very low figure.


 Again, a survey size of ~650 is enough to talk with almost certainty re: a demographic of 20,000. 380 - only a little over half that - is enough to account for just barely over a 5% margin of error with a confidence level slightly over 95%. We're talking a sample size of _approximately 1800._ _Pew Research _often uses poll sizes of this size or _smaller_ to account for the populations of _small-to-modest nations_. Sample sizes of ~1,400 have been used to - again, by accredited survey networks such as Pew - to represent _the majority / entirety of non-hispanic whites within the United States._



Zuriak said:


> 2. False narrative that gamers are against women in gaming. Who cares if a protagonist is male or female.


 Apparently a number of #GGers, if the reaction to the GDC survey and Dina Karam is anything to go by.



Zuriak said:


> Why is it bad to have sexy characters,


 On its own? Sexy characters are not bad, necessarily. However - and this is _especially_ true in the case of art - one needs to take into account how the media is going to be consumed, implications overt and subtle from the sexualization, for that matter _how_ they're sexualized, whether that sexualization is at all important or basically tacked on like a bad Clippy assistant attached to the latest GoW game, and so-on.




Zuriak said:


> or at least portrayed in a desireable light?


 Comments like this do not help, especially when a number of "desirable" traits are - in some cases - either outright impossible or exist in less than 1% of the female population (globally), especially when one branches into the matters of subconscious, normalization, and so-on. 




Zuriak said:


> Though the part about Mighty Number 9, the person they appointed to be their community manager was hired on for the purpose of designing robots and for community relations.


 Yes, and - like when it was brought up on here years ago - I do not see why "I think it'd be bitching if they were actually a female" is something to cause uproar over. Like, it is literally of non-concern unless you're one of the (seemingly mythical) demographic that cares if a protagonist is male or female.



Zuriak said:


> 5. The article you linked doesn't talk about percentages of gamers broken down by gender. Honestly I'm not surprised shooters have more men in them.


 Perhaps this study is of more satisfaction, to you? Coincidentally you'll notice that - proportionately - the distribution between "casual" gamers and "hardcore" gamers (going off preferred games and demographic size differences) seem to be _almost identical _between Male and Female gamers. 



Zuriak said:


> Okay, can you elaborate on how #NotYourShield is comprised of sockpuppet accounts?


 Was, and predominantly through the screenshots people took from 4chan of it - quite literally - being mentioned as a mean of smokescreen / deflection from the movement in a similar fashion to the IRC log paper trail of "Stomp on the worst of the misogynistic comments explicitly so we can say we police ourselves". 



Zuriak said:


> Have you actually evidence


 Do you consider sites likes Ars Technica as credible? :V 



Zuriak said:


> dismissal because it disagrees with *the SJW agenda*?


 I was unaware I had an agenda, or that there was actually an Illuminati Shadow-Cabal of SJW's. Hm, most perturbatory.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

You're claiming that GamerGate is hating on women, I'm asking you to prove it. Anita is not someone you want to defend, and her antics and even the Utah campus letter are suspect. That video explains why Anita is both a liar and a professional victim. Has she received abuse? Undoubtedly, every major (and sometimes minor) figure has gotten unsavory messages during this debacle. Contact the cyber crimes division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation if you receive threats instead of blaming it on gamers. On top of that, anecdotal evidence and assumptions won't get you anywhere, claiming majorities and numbers doesn't mean anything without solid evidence. The video also goes on to display the breakdown between gamers and which gender gravitates towards which games, and the study you linked seems to support that conclusion as well. If you want to talk about the sexualization of women in video games, this one might be fun for you, and it has real life ramifications. Though I'm not going to whine if a another guy is taller, richer or more handsome than me.

Also, there is a timeline for Gamergate that sets the stage on what exactly happened and the reasons behind it. How exactly were many of the allegations proven false? Additionally, I would ask for evidence that the majority of GamerGate (or its purpose) is to woman hate, hate on vaginas, or even to send threats to Sarkeesian, Quinn or whatever other professional victim you can find to use trolls and psychos as a shield for criticism and their actions. So yes, I would like to play a game of "citation needed" because a few bad apples does not an orchard make.

Also also, I still require evidence that #NotYourShield is comprised of sockpuppets. I showed you mine, you have to show me yours.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> You're claiming that GamerGate is hating on women, I'm asking you to prove it. Anita is not someone you want to defend, and her antics and even the Utah campus letter are suspect. That video explains why Anita is both a liar and a professional victim. Has she received abuse? Undoubtedly, every major (and sometimes minor) figure has gotten unsavory messages during this debacle. Contact the cyber crimes division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation if you receive threats instead of blaming it on gamers. On top of that, anecdotal evidence and assumptions won't get you anywhere, claiming majorities and numbers doesn't mean anything without solid evidence. The video also goes on to display the breakdown between gamers and which gender gravitates towards which games, and the study you linked seems to support that conclusion as well. If you want to talk about the sexualization of women in video games, this one might be fun for you, and it has real life ramifications. Though I'm not going to whine if a another guy is taller, richer or more handsome than me.
> 
> Also, there is a timeline for Gamergate that sets the stage on what exactly happened and the reasons behind it. How exactly were many of the allegations proven false? Additionally, I would ask for evidence that the majority of GamerGate (or its purpose) is to woman hate, hate on vaginas, or even to send threats to Sarkeesian, Quinn or whatever other professional victim you can find to use trolls and psychos as a shield for criticism and their actions. So yes, I would like to play a game of "citation needed" because a few bad apples does not an orchard make.
> 
> Also also, I still require evidence that #NotYourShield is comprised of sockpuppets. I showed you mine, you have to show me yours.



i wish you luck. the most ive seen  from feminists here are feminist written propaganda articles and " neener neener neener im right because im a victim no proof needed blahblahblah".
i doubt you will get anywhere. we have allready shown mountains of proof. but they choose to ignore it and spit out the nonsense anyways.


----------



## Attaman (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> You're claiming that GamerGate is hating on women,


 Yes, and I've provided some _ten examples _of actions by - or effectively, directly or barely indirectly endorsed and championed by - GamerGate, that show "Hm, there seems to be something of a pattern here". Your response to them, to almost quote, has been: 
1) She hasn't been (exceptionally /) harassed / everyone gets harassed /  she deserves the harassment and more / IT'S ALL PROFESSIONAL TROLL LIES. 
2) See Anita Sarkeesian re: Zoe Quinn. Also, again, everything was true and she totally slept with, like, a dozen guys and snu-snu'd her way to good reviews (even though, surprise of surprise, that's not actually the case: Most evidence points towards her sleeping with a single guy, there being no evidence of them imparting a favorable review [or even having the chance to give one!] in return, _and_ if true would kind of mean that GamerGate should have been _â€‹dog piling Grayson instead of making the entire incident about Quinn and her vagina_).
3) Totes because m00t was a Sarkeesian sleeper-cell agent who had their button pressed.
4) [Unaddressed, implying unimportance as obviously Quinn starting a relationship with a journalist and someone backing a Kickstarter are much more caustic traits of Gaming and Gaming Journalism than things like the _Shadows of Mordor_
 incident]
5) #MetalGate is totally a minor sham that has nothing to do with / #MetalGate was others realizing the SJW menace is everywhere and you're trying to smear it because it has similar goals to #GG. Also I'm not _directly_ saying fighting SJW's is the good fight but it's some good shit and it could be called a fight.
6) The Hugo Awards scandal was totally overblown and it was totes a matter of merit finally being brought back into it.
7) Eh man photoshops and harassment happen all the time online you can't hold that against us. Besides, professional victim / she probably would deserve it anyways.
8) [Again unaddressed, arguably directly confirmed / "So what if it is?" re: Comments such as "SJW Agenda", which does nothing to dispel the idea / fact that #GG is about Conservative / Libertarian (there does seem to be a division between which of the two to follow) and anti-Feministic ideology]
9) The sample-size is too small! Disregard that Pew Poll has used numbers 2/3rds the sample-size to reflect _some 64% of the United State's populate_. Also even if the survey does count it totally doesn't matter as it's just fantasy not art or something and STATUS QUO DOUBLE-PLUS GOOD.
10) [Once more unaddressed, which is kinda important considering the Sarkeesian Effect raised - in its _first_ wave - a little over 75% of the funds of #GG's much touted poster-child / shield Vivian from TFYC, and once more cannibalized the more _moderate_ of the two after they split over the less moderate _effectively being endorsed to regurgitate MRA shit while the both of them try to circle jerk against Sarkeesian_]

Meanwhile, the #GGers in the audience / crowd here have been showing such a telling example of disowning such comments and not condoning the behavior by- oh, no, wait. They're pretty much nodding their heads giving implicit / explicit support.
_
I can hardly wonder how I'm getting the impression that #Gamergate is not about things like preventing another Kane and Lynch incident_.



Zuriak said:


> I'm asking you to prove it.


 Would you like the police department #GG had touted as "totally not getting a call from Sarkeesian" stating that - whoops, yes - they did get a call? The FBI directly looking into matters (which isn't exactly a small burden of proof nor minor offense since sites like 8chan remain _explicitly_ because they have bigger CP dens to fry)? Perhaps I could link you to some examples of the harassment she's received, but considering you believe that everything up until the Utah Letter couldn't _possibly_ be real and that she's merely a professional victim Shadow Cabal puppet master I have a hunch that someone in here could make an explicit death / rape threat / joke towards her and you would somehow try to spin it as a Sarkeesian plant. Also kudos once more for then going on to shoot yourself in the foot by saying "Yeah, she isn't harassedâ€¦ BUT IT'S TOTALLY JUSTIFIED FUCKING SCAM ARTIST AM I RITE?" Another Bravo for pointing out such Corruption in Gaming Journali- wait...



Zuriak said:


> Has she received abuse? Undoubtedly, every major (and sometimes minor) figure has gotten unsavory messages during this debacle.


 _Normalizing internet and offline harassment as a thing people are just going to get is bad, and to be blunt is a *much fucking bigger* concern than a Feminist pissing in your Gears of War review._



Zuriak said:


> Contact the cyber crimes division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation if you receive threats instead of blaming it on gamers.


 You know how I kept bringing up the FBI and standards of proof and whatnot? You know why? Because it turns out they generally _don't_ get involved in these sort of things, and regular law-enforcement are even less prone. Recall that many states don't even consider things like _fucking revenge porn_ providing the majority of a user's real - factual - personal information as *a crime*, putting the onus of responsibility on the *victim*. Another sort of thing that #GG should, y'know, be concerned about. Only - oh, wait - when people bring this up (Such as John Oliver) they _mass-flood the videos and articles with negative comments going #WhataboutGGers / #WhatAboutMen_. Whoops.



Zuriak said:


> On top of that, anecdotal evidence and assumptions won't get you anywhere,


 With you? Yes, I realize. But considering I've currently got a personal experience range that would satisfy Pew Poll as "sufficiently confident" for a population the size of _a small nation_, and your responses _anyways_, I'm not exactly finding my beliefs challenged so much as directly validated.



Zuriak said:


> The video also goes on to display the breakdown between gamers and which gender gravitates towards which games, and the study you linked seems to support that conclusion as well.


 The same games, yes. The last few numbers in the top ten are a bit more in the air, but the male demographic is also - visibly - much more split with _much_ smaller (proportionally) representative numbers there compared to the female gaming demographic. Also I'm a bit concerned as to which "video" you're referring to, since the ones I've seen you post re: This discussion relate to:
A) Jennifer Hepler, totally another professional victim (my, it's almost like everyone #GG does or has harassed has conveniently been a professional victim and is in totally no way undeserving of what flak they get!).
B) Re: #NotYourShield, which conveniently exists solely to remind people of its existence then disregard it with actual rhetoric and actions.
C) "Lol Anita scam artist"

Which leads me to strongly doubt just what sort of facts they're presenting, especially considering #GG has gone on the record to contend _official ESRB numbers re: Gaming Demographics_.



Zuriak said:


> If you want to talk about the sexualization of women in video games, this one might be fun for you, and it has real life ramifications.


 That you're implicitly commenting / arguing "representation in art / media / games has no real-life ramifications" has a slew of ramifications of its own.



Zuriak said:


> Though I'm not going to whine if a another guy is taller, richer or more handsome than me.


 #TotallyNotPotshots / #TotallyNotImplyingRootOfSJWComplaints.



Zuriak said:


> How exactly were many of the allegations proven false?


Well, considering she slept with only a single person, after her review was made, and there (to my understanding) remains nil proof that Quinn was in any way related to TFYC's hackingâ€¦ I'd say the vast majority were either proven false or are inconclusive enough to lean towards false?



Zuriak said:


> Also also, I still require evidence that #NotYourShield is


Was. You can continue to try and get me to defend an argument I never made all you want, but I'm not going to play that ball skippy. Especially when the burden of proof I'd need to prove Sarkeesian _gets harassed _quantumly shifts between "Provide the guilty-verdict court documents" and "She totally deserved / deserves all of it prove that she doesn't".

But by all means, you and ShioBear keep opening your mouths. For those of us who aren't #GG, this is anâ€¦ amazing, thing to watch play out.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Attaman, you might wanna let this one go, these people don't even listen to the Southern Poverty Law Center and Zuriak keeps refusing to talk about the harassment when I've tried to bring it up. :3c

Also, more lack of ethics in gaming that GG will ignore.


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

GG isn't a bad group. Or a good group. Its people doing stuff for a cause they believe in in sometimes good effective ways, and sometimes misguided and hateful ways.


Kellie Gator said:


> Also, more lack of ethics in gaming that GG will ignore.


But literally everyone who likes video games now hates Konami. Everyone was talking about this. EVERYONE.
And hell, for evidence that GG is very much pissed with Konami: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/search?q=konami&sort=new&restrict_sr=on


Attaman said:


> The inability for #GG to stop talking about vaginas and women is something of a clue-in, especially since it has _absolutely shit-all to do with a supposed corruption within gaming and gaming journalism._


This one in particular bugs me, because there's a very good reason that this is the case. That's not ALL GG talks about, however, that's a very frequently talked about subject because its an issue that keeps getting brought up by various game journalists, game reviewers, and game critics. Its being made a serious issue in the gaming industry, and consequently that's why GG talks about it a lot, as such entities have power in the game industry.



EDIT: By the way, if anyone's interested, a study was shown and hosted on an education website regarding youth online harassment and who does it: http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/Online Harassment in Context.pdf


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> This one in particular bugs me, because there's a very good reason that this is the case. That's not ALL GG talks about, however, that's a very frequently talked about subject because its an issue that keeps getting brought up by various game journalists, game reviewers, and game critics. Its being made a serious issue in the gaming industry, and consequently that's why GG talks about it a lot, as such entities have power in the game industry.


GG has been accused of this repeatedly and people ask why it's talked about. We certainly don't want to talk about it and have to defend ourselves because of baseless accusations. I'd agree that it's only the case because GG's detractors have made it so.

More to follow for Attaman.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I hear that GG eats babies.
Just like feminists.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

@Shiobear: Yesh, that is apparent. Kaizy seemed reasonable, but this is looking like an engagement with Kellie all over again. I suppose I never learn.

Firstly, I will state I don't appreciate you misrepresenting me as a springboard of which to attack GameGate with. If you have evidence, then by all means attack. I will not excuse verbosity as proof â€“ if you're not going to play nicely,then don't play at all.



No, I said she has been harassed like any other major figure. I NEVER said she deserves more threats, only that she is a dishonest person. Do not blatantly lie about what I said in order to advance your argument.
I never said that, and I don't see that propagated anywhere about her sleeping with twelve guys. In fact, I said earlier in the thread that the SJW side keeps trying to cram Quinn back into the conversation: she's not relevant anymore. I would like to see this evidence because it is to my understand that she got cozy with more than one, but certainly not a dozen. It's also interesting how you neglected to mention anything about The Young Turks and Gamejam.
Never said that. Refer to my warnings on point one. Be honest or I'm not going to play in your sandbox.
Why is this tagged with '[Unaddressed...]', and why is it used in a barrage to attack GamerGate with? A What does _Shadows of Mordor_ have to do with GamerGate? I ask out of genuine curiosity, you see, because GamerGate has taken tons of flak from the mainstream media alongside oodles of it from social websites, all of it about misogyny and hating women in games, not really much about _Shadows of Mordor_.
I changed my position from, and I paraphrase, "it's small and unimportant" to "it's small and unimportant but if metal is being accused of not being progressive." Again, what is conservative about metal? Tag that with [Unaddressed].
Well, yes. One side claims the Puppies groups are directly messing with the system, to which others include that it is to disinclude women and authors of color, the other is saying it's voting on the basis of merit, not physical attributes. There are examples of problems existing before the Puppies that collusion and award pimpage have existed.   1 2 3  On top of that, even though I support voting on merit, there's really no reasoning that GamerGate is responsible for this.
I didn't say anything about Photoshops, to my knowledge, but harassment isn't inclusive to women. Again, citation needed for GamerGate being conservative or libertarian.
Included above.
The sample size IS too small. Additionally, gamers are a wide and diverse group of people, so I'm sure what the kids think shouldn't apply to all games. Hell, I'm definitely sure they don't speak for games like EVE Online and Mechwarrior Online, oh which has a much older playerbase than quite a few other games.
Citation needed. Are you saying it's a bad thing that GamerGate has donated to charities? Because I can give you examples of charities being shut down by detractors just because the charity is GamerGate related.


Responding to the majority of your responses in order:


    The FBI is investigating, sure, but I'm waiting to see when the arrests come in. Additionally, it's straight defamation to call 8chan a CP den. And yes, the Utah letter was disregarded. Get over it. And again. I am not saying the harassment is justified, only that one side in this debate should stop acting like it's all about them. I also have never and do not personally support doxxes, of which many people on either side have gotten. Please, PLEASE argue with me more on that point. Everyone deserves criticism but you'll see it swept under the rug under the guise of harassment.


    No, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. If I were to say "My sister got harassed in a dungeon in WoW once.", that is anecdotal. Using small numbers from a certain portion of the country with an age group is anecdotal.


    To no one's surprise, different gamers prefer different things. Also, have you noticed how you cannot comment or rate on Anita's videos?


    And I'm asking you to prove that a sexyperson in a game has real life conequences. Again.


    "Ignoring attempt to pin me as a purposefully disingenuous and unreliable source, as well as propping up a hashtag that was predominantly composed in its early days of sockpuppet #GG accounts, yes."


    I'm asking for proof of this because this is the argument you made. There is no flip flopping as I never stated Quinn or Sarkeesian deserved anything. Can you stop with this dishonest appeal-to-emotion tripe? You'll find some people in GG who want to harass and send threats just as you'll find people within the SJW movement who want to kill cis men. The fringes should never be applied to the whole.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> GG has been accused of this repeatedly and people ask why it's talked about. We certainly don't want to talk about it and have to defend ourselves because of baseless accusations. I'd agree that it's only the case because GG's detractors have made it so.
> 
> More to follow for Attaman.


You do realize not wanting to talk about the harassment makes you look cowardly as fuck, right? And in total denial?

Get some therapy, mate, please. D:


----------



## Attaman (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> No, I said she has been harassed like any other major figure. I NEVER said she deserves more threats, only that she is a dishonest person.


 Overtly? No. Indirectly between the implications that she's a shadowy cabal leader who buys out websites and thaws frozen peaches, that the child porn / death threats / harassing messages sent to her are a minor concern overinflated by that foul harpy being a Professional Victim solely to smear #GG, that there hasn't even _begun_ to be an internet lynch mob formed towards her, an insistence to prove that some of the more major incidents (such as the shooting threat) were totally made up _by Sarkeesian or her closest followers_, and the steady need to remind us that _she_ is a liar (because yes, when talking about harassment and death-threats and such a constant reminded "Don't forget Sarkeesian was no choir girl!") as though it's somehow relevant or justifies the responses, the conclusions one can draw are _pretty fucking clear_.

Also, and this is a mix of just now noticing the comment (when reading back) and relevance to the matter at hand: 


Zuriak said:


> Additionally, I would ask for evidence that the majority of GamerGate (or its purpose) is to woman hate, hate on vaginas, or even to send threats to Sarkeesian, Quinn or whatever other professional victim you can find to use trolls and psychos as a shield for criticism and their actions.


Disregarding the _continued_ treatment of "Social Justice Warrior" as a crime deserving of internet mob Judge, Jury, and Shit-slinging mob, I _have_ provided evidence. Namely: Even if only a minority of #Gamergate-rs are exchanging in this activity - less than 1% - you know what? _Defending their actions and hiding them under your shroud_ is _pretty fucking different_ from condemning them and disowning them. And yet, surprisingly, that is not what is happening here. Oh, yes, #GG is fond of going "They aren't one of ours" (after inevitably running out the defenses of "It totally didn't happen", "It's totally a false flag", and "It's how the internet is"), but you know what's conspicuously absent nine times out of ten (and so far only the _goddamn child porn_ example received, which was no doubt in part because if there's one way to get the FBI to finally drop the hammer on 8chan it'd be harassing CP-containing emails)? _*Fucking condemnation.*_ 

Even now, between "Everyone gets harassed" and "A lot of it's probably fake" and "They're a professional victim trying to profit from their misfortune", you know what _continues_ to remain absent? *Condemnation and disowning of these bad eggs, or even an implication of condemnation and disowning*. 

You know how people complain about the Blue Wall of Silence? How often times an officer's peers - even if they don't directly cover for their partner's ass - will be held equally responsible because they implicitly gave their support to a cop who did terrible shit or stood behind those who did support said officers? Looked aside when a snitch was practically thrown under the bus? Well, surprise of surprises, #Gamergaters can be observed doing the _exact same behavior_, often times even being _explicitly quoted_ in threads, IRC logs, and so-on not saying "Don't post this sort of shit" but "Don't post this sort of shit _where non-#GGers might find it_". The reaction to "#GGer sends threatening emails to Sarkeesian" is not "Shame on you!", not "This behavior is not acceptable", not "We apologize for the harassment sent by [x]"â€¦ but "Oh, they're not one of ours" while _implicitly or explicitly echoing their sentiments._

You want an example of an idea how to clear #GG's name and stop having Sarkeesian, Quinn, Wu, and so-on dragged into the mess? Write up an apology letter. No, seriously: Get every single person you know of and can from within the movement who _does not agree or condone such behavior_, have them join together to sign a non-sarcastic / -scathing letter of apology and sympathy, and send it to such individuals. You don't need to say "You're right and we're wrong", you don't need to say "We agree with what you're trying to say", you don't need to make any comment of condoning or acceptance of them whatsoever. Just "We apologize for the harassment and negative treatment you've received from people under our banner. No one should have to deal with this sort of behavior or duress going through their day-to-day life."

Con-grat-u-fucking-lations, this one _*hilariously simple*_ act that only takes *enough time to write the final draft and put down one's name*, not only puts a nail in the coffin of the idea of "#GG exists to send harassment and chew bubblegum [and is all out of gum]", but also is a _remarkably humble display of good will and sympathy_. Unsurprisingly, despite proto-#GG having started this sort of behavior towards Sarkeesian long before the Five Guys incident _*nothing of the sort has even been broached in a meaningful fashion*, _and instead #GGers - just like in this thread - have been instead using their time to _propose why the harassment is justified, normal, and in no-ways should be held against or as representative of #GG (but, again, #GG ain't complaining)._



Zuriak said:


> I never said that, and I don't see that propagated anywhere about her sleeping with twelve guys. In fact, I said earlier in the thread that the SJW side keeps trying to cram Quinn back into the conversation: she's not relevant anymore. I would like to see this evidence because it is to my understand that she got cozy with more than one, but certainly not a dozen. It's also interesting how you neglected to mention anything about The Young Turks and Gamejam.


 So, just to be clear: You intend to use TYT and their actions towards Gamejam - an action Quinn did not directly push or order, done by a movement that affiliated itself towards her as an ally - as an example against her?

Now, to also be clear: Will this same standard of evidence apply towards 4chan / 8chan and #Gamergate? If so, why or why not?

Finally, to be clear: Is this being used as either a justification or "It couldn't have happened to a worse person" of the actions taken against Quinn?



Zuriak said:


> Never said that. Refer to my warnings on point one.


 And yet you explicitly said m00t was in her pocket. So, which is it? Is m00t some sort of puppet whose strings are being pulled by Anita Sarkeesian to cover her ass, and if not what was the purpose of making such an allegation? 



Zuriak said:


> Why is this tagged with '[Unaddressedâ€¦]'


 Because the _Shadows of Mordor_ thing was kind of a big deal, and it effectively took non-#GGers shoving a white-hot branding iron up the movement's ass for them to finally take notice of it and comment / be worked into a furor.

Contrastingly, at the same time, there was a big push by the movement to scour reviewer history for signs ofâ€¦ Kickstarter participation. Of projects that had vaguely pro-SJW creators or ideologies within them.

In other words, "So, you're about opposing corruption in Gaming Journalism, but Review Embargos and stipulations like the above are less important than whether Tim Schaefer said he likes Anita Sarkeesian's videos?"

This was, arguably, _the_ incident that lead to #GG actually putting the least amount of effort into presenting themselves as being concerned about Ethics in Journalism and not totes about the likes of Wu and Sarkeesian and whatnot, because all eyes were on them at the news and they saw not uproar over a terrible policy and blatant corruption within the medium but instead people busily engaging in circle-jerks about how much of a scam artist hack Zoe Quinn was and how the Sarkeesian Effect was going to uplift the uneducated masses about their false SJW Prophet.



Zuriak said:


> What does _Shadows of Mordor_ have to do with GamerGate?


#Gamergate exists to combat Corruption of Ethics within Gaming Journalism (its own words). The _Shadows of Mordor_ review embargo was a blatant violation of Ethics within Gaming Journalism. 




Zuriak said:


> I changed my position from, and I paraphrase, "it's small and unimportant" to "it's small and unimportant but if metal is being accused of not being progressive." Again, what is conservative about metal? Tag that with [Unaddressed].


 Well, for starters, a number of its older main-line bands and their material. _Manowar_ is a chief, enormous example, and remains quite relevant as it's still one of the major groups used to introduce people to the medium. There's also the behavior behind the scenes bitterness regarding some groups such as _Nightwish._



Zuriak said:


> Well, yes. One side claims the Puppies groups are directly messing with the system,


Again, claims nothing: They directly did exploit the system. There is no "If-" and / or "But-" about it.



Zuriak said:


> There are examples of problems existing before the Puppies that collusion and award pimpage have existed.


 Promotion of isolated works, yes. Outright _overtaking_ the awards, and with the almost _explicit _message of "We will not go quietly into the night at positive mention of things like trans-individuals in the military in our _science fiction_"? It is unprecedented. Furthermore, #GG is not responsible for it, but a number of its major backers _and_ members directly endorsed / supported their actions (hell, you're _doing so now_) and when it comes to proving "We don't engage in or condone such activities or corruption within journalism" being on the record as saying _counter-exploitation of the system to enforce a message,_ which for double-plus irony is a _pretty fuck-huge example of a violation of ethics within journalism and peer review_, does not help the cause _at all_.




Zuriak said:


> I didn't say anything about Photoshops,


 Your response to the Iwata death photoshop was, quote, 


Zuriak said:


> Fifthly, people fall for modified or photoshopped tweets all the time.


 


Zuriak said:


> but harassment isn't inclusive to women.


 Is it time for #AllLivesMatter?



Zuriak said:


> Again, citation needed for GamerGate being conservative or libertarian.


 I believe its stance on Feminism is about as much of a citation as is needed.




Zuriak said:


> The sample size IS too small.


 Acredited groups such as Pew / People-Press disagree with you, unless you want to argue that #GamerGate has a silent majority upward on the size of _North America_.



Zuriak said:


> Additionally, gamers are a wide and diverse group of people, so I'm sure what the kids think shouldn't apply to all games.


 That #GG is explicitly invested in disproving the numbers to combat the idea "People wouldn't mind more female protagonists" and "People do not like senseless over-sexualization of female characters" kind of says everything that needs to be said regardless of the sample size since *the survey being right is a best-case scenario for gamers and public relations everywhere*. There's nothing to find objectionable about it if proven right, and plenty of things to be upset about if proven wrong / non-representative. 



Zuriak said:


> Citation needed. Are you saying it's a bad thing that GamerGate has donated to charities?


 I'm saying that it's blatant, much-touted and espoused shield to prove "We're totally not misogynists" received about comparable funding to a project created by a guy who un-ironically goes "Vox Day is a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of any shrill feminist" and to justify current / continued harassment of a woman on the internet. Furthermore, there is fairly strong reason to believe (what with TFYC explicitly identifying themselves as a Feminist group and many #GGers commenting how they explicitly _disagree with and oppose feminism as a sexist movement_) that at least a solid chunk of that money came not out of charitable good samaritan-ship but to go "Fuck you" towards Zoe Quinn. That much of the money had been raised to make Vivian James an actual thing - and before it was actually accepted by TFYC she was _already being used as a poster-child of #GG and in copious amounts of porn_ - is also a point to be kept in mind.



Zuriak said:


> Because I can give you examples of charities being shut down by detractors just because the charity is GamerGate related.


 Yes, and that's a pretty shitty thing for those detractors to have engaged in. Unless the charity was engaging in some skeevy shit or there was reason to believe it was going to selectively apply the funds (in which case the actions still aren't condoned, and authorities should have been invoked instead of attempts at mob-action / internet vigilante-ism), there is outright no excuse for such behavior and said persons were bags of dicks who I do not affiliate myself with in any way, shape, or form*.



Zuriak said:


> The FBI is investigating, sure, but I'm waiting to see when the arrests come in.


 The FBI moves incredibly slow. Joe Arpaio, for example, is _still_ a free man because - in addition to requiring an extensive burden of proof to _begin_ acting - they tend to prefer all of their hens in order before acting. It's one of the reasons - when news came out of the FIFA scandal - people were already confident that they'd be found guilty and that it was more going to be a plunge to see how deep that rabbit hole went.



Zuriak said:


> Additionally, it's straight defamation to call 8chan a CP den.


 It very much is a CP den. You do not get board listings such as:
/nnmodels/ - "Young Models and Jailbait"
/younglove/ - "Pedophilia discussion"
/phile/ - "For those that think young"
/ephebophilia/ - "Ephebophilia"
/pact/ - "Pedophile activism"
/jailbait/ - "Jailbait"

From sites that take an active interest in quashing such content.



Zuriak said:


> I am not saying the harassment is justified, only that one side in this debate should stop acting like it's all about them.


 I do believe I've mentioned multiple times in here how normalization of harassment on the internet is a horrific thing, and even stated it to be bigger than things such as accusations of sexism or concern over supposed SJW corruption.



Zuriak said:


> No, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. If I were to say "My sister got harassed in a dungeon in WoW once.", that is anecdotal. Using small numbers from a certain portion of the country with an age group is anecdotal.


 And again, about ~680 unique incidents is enough to statistically represent a population of over 20,000 with a 5% margin of error and a 99% degree of confidence.



Zuriak said:


> To no one's surprise, different gamers prefer different things. Also, have you noticed how you cannot comment or rate on Anita's videos?


 Unsurprisingly, people don't like their videos having comment chains like "Choke on my dick".



Zuriak said:


> And I'm asking you to prove that a sexyperson in a game has real life conequences. Again.


 That art and media consumption can affect someone's mind is not some far-out made-up SJW idea of recent invention. It's something that's overall been acknowledged for decades, and there's continued research being made into the matter to this day (see: The shitton of research in Subliminal Manipulation).



Zuriak said:


> There is no flip flopping as I never stated Quinn or Sarkeesian deserved anything.


 Just because someone doesn't say "She deserved to be rape" doesn't mean they didn't imply it when they say "She shouldn't have walked down that dark alley dressed like that". 



Zuriak said:


> within the SJW movement


 I'm going to let you in on a little secret: There is no SJW movement. 

*To my knowledge. Quite obvious if they _were_ they haven't been caught yet, as I'm fairly positive "hack and shut down a charity organization / website / project" is the sort of thing that gets someone hammered and hammered _hard_ by local authorities when discovered.


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Please attempt to at the very least try not to use so many additive words that don't add any actual facts to your posts. It just makes everything come off as unnecessarily angry and biased. It makes things come off as condescending and difficult to read.





Attaman said:


> It very much is a CP den. You do not get board listings such as:
> /nnmodels/ - "Young Models and Jailbait"
> /younglove/ - "Pedophilia discussion"
> /phile/ - "For those that think young"
> ...


I don't really use 8chan and stick to 4chan in part because of this, however holding such content does not make the site itself a den for such content. Even if it has it, those are not the most popular boards nor representative of the whole site. Not to mention that any actual porn is banned from the website as illegal content.

4chan hosts /pol/ but the website is not a den for contrarians and hardcore conservatives. Guilt by association is wrong.





1000bluntz said:


> it's called porn games nerd, have you ever even been on newgrounds?


Forgive me for bringing up something a bit old now, but I just saw this.
Porn games, unless imported from Japan (and even then), are usually pretty bad or just difficult to enjoy.
Its much more fun (at least to me) to be playing a game that is genuinely good at its core and just offers little things like fanservice as a bonus. An example of what I mean is like comparing the video game Skullgirls to the Zone Flash game about the game. The latter is terrible and difficult to enjoy, while the former is fantastic. Both contain lewd content, but only one of them actually has great gameplay, music, animation, and a story that tries (its still a fighting game so no way am I going to argue its story is good).


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



> Indirectly between the implications that she's a shadowy cabal leader who buys out websites and thaws frozen peaches


Citation needed. She is a force that is using GamerGate as an excuse to further her ideas, but I certainly did not say she was a shadow cabal leader, nor di she buy out anything. Do not misrepresent what I'm saying, last warning.


Additionally, there is no lynch mob for Anita Sarkeesian. Point to the letter (it DOES NOT MENTION GAMING, it talks about FEMINISM -- how is it related to GamerGate?!) and emails all you like, but they are no representative of GamerGate. And yes,she is a liar. She has been caught multiple times. I can more than readily tell you what they were if you like. I'd contend it was a false flag operation by someone on her side, though it's entirely unclear on where it's from â€“ but the police said it was not credible.




> I have provided evidence. Namely: Even if only a minority of #Gamergate-rs are exchanging in this activity - less than 1% - you know what? Defendingtheir actions and hiding them under your shroudis prettyfucking different fromcondemning them and disowning them.




Still waiting on evidence that (majority) GG is a woman-hating or vaginahating movement. And where are the actions being defended? Why would you specifically state this lie, after all the effort I've put into engaging with you, would you continue to spew falsehoods and appeals to emotion. I'm specifically asking you for evidence that GamerGate is what you think it is. I associate with GG, am I responsible for what someone else who is supposedly in my movement did? I can't even begin to explain to you how much of a rabbit hole that is. That is categorical bullshit. The leading figures do not support harassment or threats and this has been stated numerous times. In fact, Sargon readily endorses contacting the FBI if you've received something unsavory.


I agree that GG has its bad eggs and there are things it missed, but it's laughable if you think its opposition is any different. Hell,Arthur Chu actually apologized for his behavior and the SJW sides of things are the ones who launch the most attacks.


Point out this behavior and how it's being defended. And no, there will no apologies by people who have done nothing wrong and have nothing todo with any harassment that was thrown around. The fact you brought up Wu discredits your premise to begin with as she is the worst in trying to reinsert herself into the decision with the HIGHEST level of questionable complaints. So much for the 'Blue Wall of Silence' argument.




> So, just to be clear: You intend to use TYT and their actions towards Gamejam - an action Quinn did not directly push or order, done by a movement that affiliated itself towards her as an ally - as an example against her?


I misspoke; I meant The Fine Young Capitalists. I apologize for any, if at all, confusion that was caused by the mistaken correlation. But yes, I do. She has a history of unethical behavior but suddenly it doesn't matter apparently. Not even when Quinn placed Eron under a gag order. So ethical.




> And yet you explicitly said m00t was in her pocket. So, which is it? Ism00t some sort of puppet whose strings are being pulled by Anita Sarkeesian to cover her ass, and if not what was the purpose of making such an allegation?


Unforgivably false. I said m00t was in cahoots with Anita. I'm not sure of his reasons behind it, but the mass censorship of GG discussion on 4Chan pretty much sparked the migration to 8Chan. Many sites squashed the discussion, and GameJournosPro specifically targeted the movement with coordinated article releases to try and discredit the movement.


@Mordor: Watched the video in the article and apparently Bain got on top of it. Good on him, the guy's very honorable in this day and age. Though I see you're tacking on FemFreq onto this point: her entire premise is about women and tropes in video games; Johnathan McIntosh, her writer, has been engaged on this topic innumerable times and only ignored opposition and moved goal posts.


@MetalGate: I'm not really interested in the movement but you're the one linking it to GamerGate. I've already entertained the argument enough to the extend of my care. Again, for the third time, what does metal have to do with conservatism?


@HugoAwards: The Sad and Rabid Puppies are groups composed of science fiction fans, as far as I'm aware, that have voted on what they think is good science fiction. One of the complaints lodged against them is one of the authors they nominated had a history with homophobia â€“why should the author's beliefs be used to judge their work? But the title you're referencing is Ancillery Justice,though I need a source for that quote you posted. There's plenty of criticism for this story, apparently it's a one trick pony that mentions gender 19.5 a page, according to the comments here.If it was going nominated on that alone, then I can see why people too issue with it. And no, don't accuse me of hating ontransgendereds, I know plenty and I have no problem with their life choices.


@Photoshop: I admit, I misspoke there.


@Conservatism/Libertarianism: You do realize that no all people in GamerGate share the same political ideologies? Then again your side did call Christina Sommers a conservative despite her voting democrat. *shrug*


@Stastitics: The average age of the gamer is 30-31 years old, with 170 million people being in this group. Don't even begin to tell me on how the majority holding opinion of under two thousand teens means anything for this group. The problem is that the question was asked and a study was done upon the idea that women are sexualized in video games with no parameters as to what qualifies as sexualization, nor what types of game genres included them and nothing about sexualized men.


@Charities: Obvious attempt to discredit GG as misogynist. GG is not misogynist. Sit down.


@FBI: No indication they have sided with Anita.


@8Chan: They're small boards and I find the practice absolutely disgusting and unacceptable. Is it what 8Chan is about? No. Again, a blatant lie. I agree with Battlechili on this one.


@Harassment: Again, sit down.


@Stastistics: You're dealing with 170 million people. Stand up and then sit downand think about what you've said.


@Media sway: Okay....but how does, say, Bayonetta affect anything? The source I linked to, an article written by a female author, is something you should address instead of ignoring.




> Just because someone doesn't say "She deserved to be rape"doesn't mean they didn't imply it when they say "She shouldn't have walked down that dark alley dressed like that".


....


Who said this? WHO? How foes this apply to my argument? Again, blatant lies and misrepresentation. You can can a feminist or SJW or whatever you like until you're blue in the face, but don't strawman what I'm saying. At this point I'm absolutely fed up with your antics. I'll complete this post and this will be the last time I engage with you on this topic; if you have to lie and completely misrepresent another side in order to validate you argument that GG is about men hating women in their games, then your argument holds no water. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. You fail.




> I'mgoing to let you in on a little secret: There is no SJW movement.


Aaaaand there we have it. It should be apparent by things like the 'Progressive Stack' or third wave feminism, or even Tumblrisms like thin privilege and ableism. I'll just link a whole bunch of articles.


http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/social-security-medicare-rally-featuring-sen-berni/nnGDm/
http://www.westernjournalism.com/ca...ssors-make-sure-white-males-last-speak-class/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...racial-diversity-event-at-british-university/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015...nservative-student-for-anti-islam-tweets.html(Don't agree with this guy, but the punishment is unnecessary)
https://archive.is/4OrJ0
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/07/379...university-new-hampshire-can-now-get-trouble/
http://www.iflscience.com/environment/science-says-there-no-such-thing-race
http://www.wired.com/2015/08/here-c...minist-channel-from-vice-getting-women-right/
https://www.vice.com/read/give-your-money-to-women-its-simple-284
http://www.brainpickings.org/2015/08/03/dexter-disney/
https://archive.is/htwsx
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ck-culture-with-cornrows-selfie-10384632.html
http://www.medievalists.net/2015/07...ow-video-games-are-hijacking-the-middle-ages/


The list goes on.  I like InternetAristocrat's take on what they are.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> You're claiming that GamerGate is hating on women, I'm asking you to prove it. Anita is not someone you want to defend, and her antics and even the Utah campus letter are suspect. That video explains why Anita is both a liar and a professional victim. Has she received abuse? Undoubtedly, every major (and sometimes minor) figure has gotten unsavory messages during this debacle. Contact the cyber crimes division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation if you receive threats instead of blaming it on gamers. On top of that, anecdotal evidence and assumptions won't get you anywhere, claiming majorities and numbers doesn't mean anything without solid evidence. The video also goes on to display the breakdown between gamers and which gender gravitates towards which games, and the study you linked seems to support that conclusion as well. If you want to talk about the sexualization of women in video games, this one might be fun for you, and it has real life ramifications. Though I'm not going to whine if a another guy is taller, richer or more handsome than me.
> 
> Also, there is a timeline for Gamergate that sets the stage on what exactly happened and the reasons behind it. How exactly were many of the allegations proven false? Additionally, I would ask for evidence that the majority of GamerGate (or its purpose) is to woman hate, hate on vaginas, or even to send threats to Sarkeesian, Quinn or whatever other professional victim you can find to use trolls and psychos as a shield for criticism and their actions. So yes, I would like to play a game of "citation needed" because a few bad apples does not an orchard make.
> 
> Also also, I still require evidence that #NotYourShield is comprised of sockpuppets. I showed you mine, you have to show me yours.



Considering it's common practice for gaymurg8 activists to spam the emails and telephone numbers of women with death threats, I think it's safe to say they're hating on women. The entire movement is based off of some sad baby dick nerd's blog posts. Even if his accusations were true, how can you blame Zoe ? I'd cheat on that boring fuckboy too.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> Considering it's common practice for gaymurg8 activists to spam the emails and telephone numbers of women with death threats, I think it's safe to say they're hating on women. The entire movement is based off of some sad baby dick nerd's blog posts. Even if his accusations were true, how can you blame Zoe ? I'd cheat on that boring fuckboy too.


 You know this is not the case. I see Shiobear's trollface is warranted.


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

>that font
Zuriak
I don't know what you did.
But please, PLEASE fix that font.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Yeah, I'm really sorry about that -- my word processor butchered my post. I'm not entirely quite sure what happened.

Kudos if you put up with that horrid font!


----------



## -Sliqq- (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Kudos if you put up with that horrid font!



Do you know what's worse*?*


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Do you know what's worse*?*


http://i.imgur.com/04emhwe.jpg

Please, I'll agree to anything! Just don't use Comic Sans!


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Just type your stuff into Notepad instead of Word. No text formatting there.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> Just type your stuff into Notepad instead of Word. No text formatting there.


I use One Office or whatever that suite is. The program works, but the transfer can get quite nasty when fonts and formatting becomes involved. Next time I'll do just that!


----------



## MalletFace (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> I use One Office or whatever that suite is. The program works, but the transfer can get quite nasty when fonts and formatting becomes involved. Next time I'll do just that!



You could also use _Remove Format_ on the forum if you'd prefer to use Office. It works if you know how and when to use it.

Also, I had to fight the urge to explain why that problem happens. Let it just be said that some technologies are needlessly complex.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 10, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



MalletFace said:


> You could also use _Remove Format_ on the forum if you'd prefer to use Office. It works if you know how and when to use it.
> 
> Also, I had to fight the urge to explain why that problem happens. Let it just be said that some technologies are needlessly complex.


Fixerino'd!


----------



## Fernin (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The amount of mental gymnastics and circular logic in this thread is dizzying.


----------



## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Fernin said:


> The amount of mental gymnastics and circular logic in this thread is dizzying.



But only by the people I disagree with, obviously.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> But only by the people I disagree with, obviously.


To be fair that's this whole thread in a nutshell.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> To be fair that's this whole thread in a nutshell.



Y'know, after reading a good chunk of this, I'm surprised it's gotten to 64 pages. I mean it's obvious the few people talking in here aren't going to agree or budge on their opinions, so the thread almost seems pointless.

Honestly, it's just a back-and-forth that's more amusing to read than participate in (though I've never been partial to debates lol).


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> Y'know, after reading a good chunk of this, I'm surprised it's gotten to 64 pages. I mean it's obvious the few people talking in here aren't going to agree or budge on their opinions, so the thread almost seems pointless.
> 
> Honestly, it's just a back-and-forth that's more amusing to read than participate in (though I've never been partial to debates lol).



I've pointed this out several times throughout the whole thing but these guys seem to content to keep fighting an issue of which neither side will budge in their stance.


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I've pointed this out several times throughout the whole thing but these guys seem to content to keep fighting an issue of which neither side will budge in their stance.



Yeah, I've seen.
Oh well, makes for a decent read at least.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> Yeah, I've seen.
> Oh well, makes for a decent read at least.


This is the thread I read when no one else has made an interesting one. Sometimes it disappoints though.


----------



## Azure (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Butters Shikkon said:


> This is the thread I read when no one else has made an interesting one. Sometimes it disappoints though.



This thread always disappoints. Just a bunch of people shout at each other why they are right. And all over fuckibg video games and years old internet drama. Get a life you plebes.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> I've pointed this out several times throughout the whole thing but these guys seem to content to keep fighting an issue of which neither side will budge in their stance.


Concessions have always been made, but oh well.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> You know this is not the case. I see Shiobear's trollface is warranted.



"Oh come on  that's not true" is your only argument ? 

"attacks included doxing (researching and broadcasting personally identifiable information about an individual) and hacks of her Tumblr, Dropbox, and Skype accounts; she was also subjected to threats of rape and death threats. The release of personal information led Quinn to flee her home; she explained that "I can't go home because they have been posting around my home address, often with threats attached to it."
straight from Wikipedia 
these are just a couple articles that go into detail. I can provide a few more if you'd like :3
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/zoe-quinns-depression-quest
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...lls-Inside-the-dark-world-of-video-games.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-video-game-industrys-growing-pains-go-viral/

So now that I've shown you evidence, I'd like a response. What was that ya'll said about extremism ? 

Oh and 'video game journalism' is and will forever be a shill. How do you think games like Call of Duty, Battlefield and Skyrim get great reviews despite being awful ? (Yes, your precious skyrim is shit tier, watered down RPG. I bet a neckbeard like you has put at least 200 hours into it unmodded) it's because the publishers work hand in hand w/ the already corrupt entertainment journalists. 

I guess I can't expect much from lelreddit fuckboys other than trollfaces.


----------



## sarcolopter (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Sarkeesian's opinions are worthless. What are her credentials? Professional gaming blogger? lol. She's entitled to her opinion, too bad it doesn't fucking matter.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> "Oh come on  that's not true" is your only argument ?
> 
> "attacks included doxing (researching and broadcasting personally identifiable information about an individual) and hacks of her Tumblr, Dropbox, and Skype accounts; she was also subjected to threats of rape and death threats. The release of personal information led Quinn to flee her home; she explained that "I can't go home because they have been posting around my home address, often with threats attached to it."
> straight from Wikipedia
> ...


Essentially what I've run into is, 'GamerGate is primarily composed of men who want to hate on women and don't want them in gaming!' with no supporting evidence of that premise.

Yeah, I'm sure Quinn has received a few angry messages. She also threw Wizardchan under the bus and posted UNDER HER OWN IP ADDRESS alongside other people from different websites. She also took part in 'Helldumping'. There's also that GameJam thing. And the part where she sunk TFYC. Her Tumblr was "hacked" under stange means where someone offered it on 4Chan, and their response was satisfactory. It was so strange they even went on you investigate when it came from, meaning it was either a troll or Quinn herself who tried to make this happen, in either case, it's a false flag. She also files a gag order under physical abuse against Eron Gjoni. Funny, that. Additionally, she also bailed on a discussion with Huffington Post because Hotwheels, the administrator of 8Chan, would be there to counter her bullshit.

There's a lot more for this person, but given how many times she has lied at the expense of someone else is staggering and calls into question the validity of her claims and statements. Is GamerGate the evil entity she makes it out to be? More than likely, not. It's almost like this whole narrative is *gasp* a lie! Nevermind it has actually done something.

Keep on trolling, mango. Others might be content to say I'm refusing to budge, using circular logic, etc -- but I think it's pretty apparent the character of these people who have lead the anti-GG charge and ultimately failed.


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

The sequel to the game that Neogaf banned from discussion for being "toxic" and NISA (the publisher) heavily censored beyond the interest of the niche audience it was aimed at has just been announced. Behold, I give you Criminal Girls 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8sF5-sQd1U
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=174932175&highlight=#post174932175


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> The sequel to the game that Neogaf banned from discussion for being "toxic" and NISA (the publisher) heavily censored beyond the interest of the niche audience it was aimed at has just been announced. Behold, I give you Criminal Girls 2.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8sF5-sQd1U
> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=174932175&highlight=#post174932175


damn thats a sexy looking game. THANK YOU JAPAN!


----------



## TrishaCat (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> damn thats a sexy looking game. THANK YOU JAPAN!


Believe it or not its actually a dungeon crawler. Why they don't advertise its actual main gameplay(instead of its minigames) is beyond me. Although I suppose no one was actually buying the game for the gameplay anyways. I'm not particularly interested in the game, but it worries me that it gets censored and banned from discussion on major sites.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Essentially what I've run into is, 'GamerGate is primarily composed of men who want to hate on women and don't want them in gaming!' with no supporting evidence of that premise.


ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?

Seriously, you're like a fucking holocaust denier, indoctrinated and shutting out the overwhelming and obvious proof that's out there.

This is all kinds of rofl.


----------



## 1000bluntz (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Essentially what I've run into is, 'GamerGate is primarily composed of men who want to hate on women and don't want them in gaming!' with no supporting evidence of that premise.


And..it is. What've you done to prove otherwise ? 





Zuriak said:


> Yeah, I'm sure Quinn has received a few angry messages.




*completely ignores the evidence I've provided* 



Zuriak said:


> She also threw Wizardchan under the bus and posted UNDER HER OWN IP ADDRESS alongside other people from different websites.


Lol, posting edited screenshots of random anon posters spouting here-say. "It couldn't of been any of US! Some of us suffer from social anxiety, w-we wouldn't be able to carry out such vicious attacks!"

Also, one anon mentions how people who have a good job, partners, a seemingly 'good life' etc. should be criticized for being depressed ? So do any of the morons in that thread know how depression works ? It's a mental condition, not a little pouty mood everyone gets when they get out of a relationship. Geeze, no wonder you're so misinformed..look at where you get your information from. 

So, you'll have to explain...what weight do any of these links have ? Oh and the helldump thing...yeah, a lot of people read those. It was cruel and terrible stuff, but it was still stuff everybody read out of morbid curiosity. What proof do you have of her actually participating ? Oh right, none. Just a shitty tweet from a gamergate propaganda account cherry picking her tweets out of context. Look at yourself, you're *obsessed *with some random game developer who's not a threat to anybody. Are you a perfect person ? What if I started doing a lot of research about the person YOU really are ? What if I started digging up YOUR past, are you going to tell me you've never lied or made mistakes ?
So it's 100% ok to harass this girl, call her house and leave rape threats. Lead a smear campaign against her for..what exactly ? Answer this question right now. What are you even campaigning for ?


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

@Kellie: As a Jew, I ask that you don't draw comparisons between GamerGate and the terrible event that was the Holocaust. Thanks.

@Bluntz: Sigh. Well, I did say she recieved messages but what I'm trying to explain is that she has a history of false flags and harassment, so when she makes claims as to receiving threatening calls or pictures of dead babies or child porn with her name photoshopped onto it, I'm going to take her claims with several grains of salt.

Again, I do not endorse harassment, and I do not encourage you to harass her. On top of that, your side of the debate keeps bringing her up, and you're saying I'm obsessed? You're supporting the idea that GG is just about harassing women, nevermind GG proponents receiving doxxes and threats. Funny thing about this thread: you guys are awfully quick to sling out insults against your opponents. What does that say about your side?

At this point what's been said can only be repeated for the umpteenth time.


----------



## Kellie Gator (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> @Kellie: As a Jew, I ask that you don't draw comparisons between GamerGate and the terrible event that was the Holocaust. Thanks.


Denial is denial, buddy. You don't let denialists stay comfortable.


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> Denial is denial, buddy. You don't let denialists stay comfortable.


I'm not going to play this game with you, Kellie.


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kellie Gator said:


> ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?
> 
> Seriously, you're like a fucking holocaust denier, indoctrinated and shutting out the overwhelming and obvious proof that's out there.
> 
> This is all kinds of rofl.



Kellie you really just need to stop, just stop, all you are doing is getting yourself worked up and angry for nothing now, you keep saying you won't come back into this thread, but you still do, you aren't going to gain anything or ever change Zuriak's mind on this, right now you are just being a full blown troll, there is no need to descend to such petty levels and insults and accusing people of being holocaust deniers.

You should never compare the whole "GamerGate denial that Zuriak is apparently displaying to holocaust denial." I don't really care if Zuriak is in denial about what GamerGate does and doesn't do, I don't really care about GamerGate in general but really!? you'd really resort to such pettiness?

There are much better ways to spend your evening.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Why does this thread exist in the first place?


----------



## Naesaki (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Why does this thread exist in the first place?



It had a reason once, I think


----------



## Kaizy (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> It had a reason once, I think



From what I've read (which is about 60% of the thread now), the OP was going off on a rant and invited people to "comment or not" on it. People obviously took the opportunity to debate, but it's been a roller coaster of 65 pages, with varying opinions, some snap judgements, and neither side budging very much on the topic.

I'm not really surprised since this is how debates usually go. Although I do wonder, if this was originally a rant, why it wasn't dumped in the R&R section.


----------



## ShioBear (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> Although I do wonder, if this was originally a rant, why it wasn't dumped in the R&R section.


 because im a noob and didnt know any better -.-


----------



## Zuriak (Aug 11, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



ShioBear said:


> because im a noob and didnt know any better -.-


Thanks Obama.


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> @Bluntz: Sigh. Well, I did say she recieved messages but what I'm trying to explain is that she has a history of false flags and harassment, so when she makes claims as to receiving threatening calls or pictures of dead babies or child porn with her name photoshopped onto it, I'm going to take her claims with several grains of salt.



*le sigh* 
I'm sorry but you've shown me very little evidence of harassment. None of the links you posted are very convincing since they're just thrown together memes clearly made by biased gamergate twitters. And stop trying to pretend like this is a movement actually fighting for a noble cause, most of the people involved aren't very civil. 

Okay dude, so I've asked you like 3 times now: what is GGs main objective ? What justice is this movement seeking ?




Naesaki said:


> I don't really care about GamerGate in general but really!? you'd really resort to such pettiness?



LOL, look who's on his high horse.


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## zanian (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Well, it seems like the thread was long enough to attract Godwin Law


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



zanian said:


> Well, it seems like the thread was long enough to attract Godwin Law



Hitler? I hardly know her!


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## Naesaki (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> LOL, look who's on his high horse.



Hardly on a high horse here, I just can't stand petty insults and bickering >.>


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Naesaki said:


> Hardly on a high horse here, I just can't stand petty insults and bickering >.>


You should give it a try, it's rather fun. This thread wasn't going anywhere anyway, the OP and his buttbuddy gamergate knights deserve to be ridiculed. If this thread won't be deleted then let it serve as an example


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## Zuriak (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> You should give it a try, it's rather fun. This thread wasn't going anywhere anyway, the OP and his *buttbuddy gamergate knights deserve to be ridiculed*. If this thread won't be deleted then let it serve as an example


Are you saying we deserved it? My my, what a strange and ironic turn of events considering your arguments! Though what's wrong with being gay or casual sex? I see you and Kellie tossing around these funny terms regarding one's sexuality but it only makes you come across as a bigot.

But seriously, I've argued this too many times. GG is not about harassment and in fact is against it. Sargon himself recommends you contact the FBI if you find out who did it. I also do not support harassment, despite your claims.

There's actually a nice place for people to go and report harassment they've received for being a part of GamerGate, and thus far the people launching the vast majority of the attacks have been the SJW side. 'Bu-but the womenz recieved da abuse! Muh-soggy-knee and vagina hatin'!" Yeah, no. This is the narrative that was forced upon the group by the mainstream media and professional victims like Anita Sarkeesian, because I actively encourage you to find where the head honchos of GG WANT you to go and attack people, or have done it themselves.

Beyond that, that's been said has been said. One day you'll wake up and realize, "Man I'm such an assclown." but unfortunately today was not that day. Disengagement is the best option at this point, so have fun dancing around and making disparaging comments regarding people's orientation.


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## -Sliqq- (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> But seriously, I've argued this too many times. GG is not about harassment and in fact is against it. Sargon himself recommends you contact the FBI if you find out who did it. I also do not support harassment, despite your claims.



If your organization is not built around harassment, *NEVER* make it seem that way. *NEVER give the media the wrong idea.*

As far as I'm concerned, if your enemy views it as harassment and not an organized group built to combat them, then you've given them all the ammunition they need.

It's like with the kids in Baltimore "rioting" : the aftermath of their actions made them come off as savages.


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## Zuriak (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> If your organization is not built around harassment, *NEVER* make it seem that way. *NEVER give the media the wrong idea.*
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, if your enemy views it as harassment and not an organized group built to combat them, then you've given them all the ammunition they need.
> 
> It's like with the kids in Baltimore "rioting" : the aftermath of their actions made them come off as savages.


Honestly with a majority-faceless movement, it's easy to have someone anonymously do something under that movement, while it's hard to tell who did it. Certainly there have been people within GG who are dumbasses and sent threats, but this is not the majority opinion, and in fact a portion of these threats were revealed to be made by sock accounts or entirely just false flags. It really doesn't help when the MSM picks up the story and gives it their own spin, like they always do -- a great example is Ellen Pao, former CEO of Reddit. Some of the coverage she got that played her off as a women's advocate is just appallingly stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDyCMGEN_As

That video is a wild ride.


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## Kellie Gator (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDyCMGEN_As
> 
> That video is a wild ride.


I'm not surprised that the guy interviewing a Swede using the Swedish word for "nigger" would have a problem with the reddit CEO that knew the site had a big problem with racism.

Do you have any independent thought whatsoever or are you unable to say anything on your own and instead have to rely on assistance from reaction images and a YouTube basement dweller because you're a mindless drone?


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## Rassah (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

I just want to know, does all of this mean that there won't be any more sexy, scantily clad girls in games? And, more importantly, since I don't really care about those, does that mean there won't be a chance of having games with sexy, scantily clad boys? I was hoping the trend would be sexy girls -> sexy boys. Is the trend sexy girls -> girls wearing bulky well covered things?


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## Butters Shikkon (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Rassah said:


> I just want to know, does all of this mean that there won't be any more sexy, scantily clad girls in games? And, more importantly, since I don't really care about those, does that mean there won't be a chance of having games with sexy, scantily clad boys? I was hoping the trend would be sexy girls -> sexy boys. Is the trend sexy girls -> girls wearing bulky well covered things?



Your coffee table wasn't enough? :v


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## Rassah (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

How the hell do you know about my coffee table?!


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## Kaizy (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Rassah said:


> I just want to know, does all of this mean that there won't be any more sexy, scantily clad girls in games? And, more importantly, since I don't really care about those, does that mean there won't be a chance of having games with sexy, scantily clad boys? I was hoping the trend would be sexy girls -> sexy boys. Is the trend sexy girls -> girls wearing bulky well covered things?



Most of my experience with outfit complaints comes from MMO's, mostly Guild Wars 2.
You'd be surprised how many people would like the option of having male characters with ridiculously skimpy armor/outfits in games. Sadly, a lot of guys fight against that for obvious reasons, and the option doesn't exist. People also argue about giving females more practical outfits/armor all the time, but that never happens either, unless you're playing a game like Dark Souls where it's default. I myself dislike having a lack of option and variety when it comes to characters. It's not prevalent in all games, though there's an overwhelming majority of them that don't have good variety in their character customization, and tend to fall back on such common tropes with their character designs/outfits, such as the skimpy female armor and the ridiculously huge male armor. The lack of option is the big complaint because the defaults of both genders are tired tropes. Guild Wars 2 is somewhat alright with their female armor varieties, at least as far as their warrior classes and such, but the lighter the armor class, the more and more revealing the outfits tend to get.

IIRC, I remember reading an article about a Final Fantasy game (might have been that MMO, correct me if I'm wrong) that had announced that the male characters would be given the option of obtaining armor that was just as ridiculous and skimpy as the female's, but was dropped rather quickly when a lot of guys were complaining about how "gay" it looked and just overall made an uproar about it. Do note that it was simply the option of having it, not a required default outfit, and the outrage was amazing.

I think Willow covered this topic well and more in-depth earlier in the thread.


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> But seriously, I've argued this too many times. GG is not about harassment and in fact is against it. Sargon himself recommends you contact the FBI if you find out who did it. I also do not support harassment, despite your claims.



Of course he's going to say shit like this to cover his own ass, even the KKK comes out and says "we don't hate anybody, we're not racist". The entire movement is still based off of a biased blog post that aims to defame and slander people. 



Zuriak said:


> There's actually a nice place for people to go and report harassment they've received for being a part of GamerGate, and thus far the people launching the vast majority of the attacks have been the SJW side. 'Bu-but the womenz recieved da abuse! Muh-soggy-knee and vagina hatin'!"



LOL @ this gamergate tumblr, what the hell ? So I could be a 15 year old gamer dude who got into an argument w/ a FeMiNaZi and cry about it on this tumblr, big whoop ? None of this helps your argument, especially since you've been dancing around my question. 

I mean, I know I've been slinging shit at you guys too but at least I'm still trying to carry out an argument. Why haven't I got an actual rebuttal ? What point have you proven by linking me to a bunch of biased gamergate twitter/tumblr accounts ? Other than that you've just thrown trollfaces (seriously, how old are you to still be on that archaic shit) and "hurr durr assclown SJW"


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## TrishaCat (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



-Sliqq- said:


> Why does this thread exist in the first place?


My main interest in this thread at this point is to report any events of censorship in video games.





1000bluntz said:


> LOL @ this gamergate tumblr, what the hell ? So I could be a 15 year old gamer dude who got into an argument w/ a FeMiNaZi and cry about it on this tumblr, big whoop ? None of this helps your argument, especially since you've been dancing around my question.


Those aren't simple arguments. Its people being downright rude and quite frankly both sides are guilty of what you described. 

Nevermind, that tumblr is one-sided and meant solely to show harassment of GGers rather than both sides.


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## MalletFace (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Battlechili1 said:


> Those aren't simple arguments. Its people being downright rude and quite frankly both sides are guilty of what you described.



What you said.



Battlechili1 said:


> Those aren't  simple arguments. Its people being downright rude and quite frankly I'm the enemy and only my side is guilty.



What some of the sides hear.


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## sidewalksurfboard (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

Ok, the shit people like Kellie Gator and 1000bluntz have been saying legitimately is disgusting. You're acting like what the other side says isn't a liable opinion and just laugh when they bring up the abuse that SJWs have done to other people. I know what it's like. I was harassed by one that I used to think of as a friend, one who turned on me one day and ruined my life. They ruined my life and ruin other people's lives and all you're doing is blindly defending that side. You don't even understand what it's like to have everyone blindly defend the people in the wrong and shun the people in the right. It hurts. And by being so one sided you're hurting more people who will never get a chance to speak.


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



sidewalksurfboard said:


> You're acting like what the other side says isn't a liable opinion and just laugh when they bring up the abuse that SJWs have done to other people.


Why is it difficult for you to understand that your opinions are not exempt from criticism. How the fuck are you going to criticize feminism when you've made it clear you've never even taken a step into the academics ? You guys are citing youtubers, twitter handles and tumblr accounts that have gamergate slogans plastered all over them. 



sidewalksurfboard said:


> I know what it's like. I was harassed by one that I used to think of as a friend, one who turned on me one day and ruined my life.



HAHAHAHAHA ARE YOU FOR REAL ? Awwwh, I'm so sorry. Did you get into an argument with the big bad social justice warriors ? Did they make fun of you ?  I'm so sorry, I've had no idea you've been through such traumatic encounters


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## TheMetalVelocity (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

SJWs are the scum of the earth; coexist my fucking ass.


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



TheMetalVelocity said:


> SJWs are the scum of the earth; coexist my fucking ass.


easy there cowboy


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## sidewalksurfboard (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> HAHAHAHAHA ARE YOU FOR REAL ? Awwwh, I'm so sorry. Did you get into an argument with the big bad social justice warriors ? Did they make fun of you ?  I'm so sorry, I've had no idea you've been through such traumatic encounters


FUCK YOU. You're turning something that was traumatic for me into a joke. You're a fucking piece of garbage.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



sidewalksurfboard said:


> FUCK YOU. You're turning something that was traumatic for me into a joke. You're a fucking piece of garbage.



That's SJW for you.


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



sidewalksurfboard said:


> FUCK YOU. You're turning something that was traumatic for me into a joke. You're a fucking piece of garbage.


lol



sidewalksurfboard said:


> They ruined my life and ruin other people's lives and all you're doing is blindly defending that side. You don't even understand what it's like to have everyone blindly defend the people in the wrong and shun the people in the right. It hurts.


"fucking SJWs w/ their triggering warnings"
a few pages later
"YOU'RE TRIGGERING ME!!!!!!"
top
fucking
kek


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Hakar Kerarmor said:


> That's SJW for you.


*takes a drag of his cigarette* yeah, what can I say man..we're rotten to the core. I even double posted, that's how fucked up I am, you don't fuck w/ the big times kid. *unsheathes katana*


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## sidewalksurfboard (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> lol
> 
> 
> "fucking SJWs w/ their triggering warnings"
> ...



You don't know what I've fucking gone through, you don't understand hwo much it fucked with my life, you have no right to fucking talk, you're a horrible fucking person, you have no god damn empathy in you, not one bit, you shun everyone who disagrees with you and act like you're fucking royalty and disregard others personal experiences just to make fun of serious issues, you're a fucking disgusting piece of shit


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



sidewalksurfboard said:


> You don't know what I've fucking gone through, you don't understand hwo much it fucked with my life, you have no right to fucking talk, you're a horrible fucking person, you have no god damn empathy in you, not one bit, you shun everyone who disagrees with you and act like you're fucking royalty and disregard others personal experiences just to make fun of serious issues, you're a fucking disgusting piece of shit



Ok now that's just rude


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## Kaizy (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

A fun thread for all to enjoy.
Come one come all for the community experience of a lifetime.


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## Zuriak (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



1000bluntz said:


> Ok now that's just rude


Look, you can hate the arguments but there's no need to hate the person. Thus far you've only served up straw mans and insults, now you're just being shitty. Par for the course for SJWs, but I was hoping you would handle it better than what was expected of you.

As to why anyone would support the proven charlatan that is Anita, the attention seeker that is Quinn or the outright insane that is Wu is beyond me. I mean, someone offered the Internet Aristocrat's personal information to the highest bidder. Remember Communism Kills, the Tumblr user? Yeah, GamerGate is such terrible people. A travesty, truly, that this movement exists.


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## 1000bluntz (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Zuriak said:


> Look, you can hate the arguments but there's no need to hate the person. Thus far you've only served up straw mans and insults, now you're just being shitty. Par for the course for SJWs, but I was hoping you would handle it better than what was expected of you.
> 
> As to why anyone would support the proven charlatan that is Anita, the attention seeker that is Quinn or the outright insane that is Wu is beyond me. I mean, someone offered the Internet Aristocrat's personal information to the highest bidder. Remember Communism Kills, the Tumblr user? Yeah, GamerGate is such terrible people. A travesty, truly, that this movement exists.



I gave you a chance to discuss things semi-civil but you blatantly ignored my questions and kept posting the same tired shit. Nobody cares about gamergate or your stupid narrative on feminism and social justice. You're not educated on any of these topics you're trying to speak on and therefore- you speak nonsense. Like my man Mao says, nothing good comes from talking nonsense
Learn2sociology first, then maybe I'll take you seriously. But until then, this thread will be where I shit and piss.


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## -Sliqq- (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*



Kaizy said:


> A fun thread for all to enjoy.



Bullshit!


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## Kaizy (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

It's one thing to disagree with the people on topics, but don't go using someone else's harassment as ammo, that's not okay.

I'm not even a GG supporter, but I wouldn't resort to just insulting others and hypocritically belittling others about being harassed. This thread is enough of a mess without needing to bring personal issues into it.


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## Ozriel (Aug 12, 2015)

*Re: Why Feminism is poisoning the gaming industry and why anita sarkeesian needs to s*

*cocks shotgun*

Yeah, this thread is turning into somewhat of an  "Athiests vs. Christians" type of argument. No matter how many times people say something both sides will not budge and resort to meme posts and insults.
So let's all agree to disagree. I am going to do what should've happened 10-15 pages ago. 
/locked


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