# The Black Hole



## Armaetus (Jun 7, 2008)

What is the point of this than to spam worthless threads to up the user's e-penis/e-cooch (post count)?

I think it should be removed.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 7, 2008)

I think not.  It's one of the more interesting forums of Furaffinity Forum.


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## Ty Vulpine (Jun 7, 2008)

Besides the "1K' threads, I like the Black Hole.


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## Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (Jun 7, 2008)

Look at it this way: the black hole is what prevents us post-count whores from spamming up the rest of your site.

Rather than being a princess about this, maybe...just don't go to the black hole?

And Ty, I'll have you know that many meaningful and insightful things have been said in those 1Ks


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## Erro (Jun 7, 2008)

I've been asked to hold a civil tongue, and out of respect for that request I will on the matter. The forum is a large, diverse site where a large number of people come to do various different things. I wander around most of the forum, and I see different groups of people in every area. This just shows that different people enjoy doing different things. If we didn't enjoy it, we wouldn't do it. So what justifies removing an entire section of the forum that a large number of us enjoy posting on, just because some people find it pointless and not entertaining?


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## Azure (Jun 7, 2008)

mrchris said:


> What is the point of this than to spam worthless threads to up the user's e-penis/e-cooch (post count)?
> 
> I think it should be removed.


Aww, poor baby, do you have e-peen envy?  Sounds like it.  Don't hate, participate.  Or not, we really don't care either way.


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## Gubbinz schiwifty-five (Jun 7, 2008)

mrchris said:


> What is the point of this than to spam worthless threads to up the user's e-penis/e-cooch (post count)?
> 
> I think it should be removed.



Ok I'm going to try and be as civil as possible. Ok..Here we go.

Here's why it shouldn't be removed.

1: It's fun.

2: It's a good source of laughs and humour.

3: It's the reason why I haven't fled from this site yet like a gibbering monkey.

4: The whole user e-penis post count is silly. Other forums are join date elitist. And that's the best kind of Elitism.

5: The lulz have to go somewhere.

6: Fun games which would usually spam the bejeebers out of other forums go there and prosper.

7: It's a place where the minds unwind.

8: It's not sirius bizness.

The list goes on and on.

If it upsets you so much that some of us have fun in there you could do the following.

1: Don't get all wound up.
2: Have a sense of humour. Or as one chum of mine put it lrn2humour
3: Don't go near the place.
4: Howl at the moon.
5: Drink a cup of coffee and do something else.


And finally if your going to suggest removing such a fun forum you may want to support your argument with a few more reasons.


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## E-mannor (Jun 7, 2008)

i dont think post count matters much, unless it is to the point of Rilvor, because he is just... well he must have allot of time.

the only thing that matters is the usefulness of your posts


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## Dragoneer (Jun 7, 2008)

The forums have a place for everybody. The Black Hole caters to a specific group, and was created specifically for them (to take the spam away from other discussions).


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## Azure (Jun 7, 2008)

VISIT MOAR, PACKET BOY!!!


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 7, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> VISIT MOAR, PACKET BOY!!!



Agreed.  His company is most welcome.  ^.-.^


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## Erro (Jun 7, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> The forums have a place for everybody. The Black Hole caters to a specific group, and was created specifically for them (to take the spam away from other discussions).


'cause we really do love those that give us channers a place to spill or excess awesomesauce 


AzurePhoenix said:


> VISIT MOAR, PACKET BOY!!!



Secon.... Thirded! =3


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## codewolf (Jun 7, 2008)

i must say the black hole is a good idea in theory, but the 1k threads just do my nut in.


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## Azure (Jun 7, 2008)

Why?


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## Eevee (Jun 8, 2008)

nameless_ermine said:


> Look at it this way: the black hole is what prevents us post-count whores from spamming up the rest of your site.


You make it sound like you hold the forums hostage and could release a torrential cesspool of worthless garbage upon us if we were to not cater to your demands.  I might remind you that most forums deal with floods of crap with _banning_, which is far more effective than a devoted subforum.

edit: 'we' as in the rest of the forums, not the administration  :V


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## Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (Jun 8, 2008)

Eevee said:


> You make it sound like you hold the forums hostage and could release a torrential cesspool of worthless garbage upon us if we were to not cater to your demands.  I might remind you that most forums deal with floods of crap with _banning_, which is far more effective than a devoted subforum.



Edit: On second thought, it's probably wise to just leave this alone.


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## LizardKing (Jun 8, 2008)

On one forum I go to they have a similar section, but posts made there do not add to the post count. It's funny to see people who have been around for years with postcounts under 100. 

While there may be some minor good points to removing the black whole, I feel the benefits of such a section far outweigh them.


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## Mr Fox (Jun 8, 2008)

I think it should stay the way it is, most of the threads are interesting and it's not hurting anyone in anywhy so leave it be


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## NerdyMunk (Jun 8, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> I think not.  It's one of the more interesting forums of Furaffinity Forum.



Without it, everyone would be viewing the "drama" board Rants and Raves, and getting angry at everyone there.


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## codewolf (Jun 8, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Why?



because they are a pain in the arse to moderate, generally spiral into RPing of sorts, and a worthless waste of database space.


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## Wovstah (Jun 8, 2008)

It's just fun - and it keeps the spam off the rest of the board... for the most part. XD


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## ExTo (Jun 8, 2008)

Why does anyone even *bother* about checking people's postcounts, and who cares where they come from?

You have 6000 posts and 5200 of them are Black Hole? Well, you still posted 800 times elsewhere, probably a lot of meaningful stuff...

Really. Who minds? If you look at other's postcounts... well you're worse off than those who look at their own.


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## Bokracroc (Jun 9, 2008)

Keep it but disable Postcount +1 in it. Watch a quarter of the traffic in there slow down because of it.


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## Takun (Jun 9, 2008)

If you want you can remove my post counter.  Really.  I don't give a fuck.


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## Stratelier (Jun 9, 2008)

Is it possible to turn post-counts off within the Black Hole?


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 9, 2008)

No.  Keep the post counter.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 9, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> If you want you can remove my post counter.  Really.  I don't give a fuck.


There are no rewards for reaching X number of posts, so... it's just an aesthetic, really.


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## Takun (Jun 9, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> There are no rewards for reaching X number of posts, so... it's just an aesthetic, really.



But...I just hired a rag tag team of pirates to go looking for the reward.


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## Bokracroc (Jun 9, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> There are no rewards for reaching X number of posts, so... it's just an aesthetic, really.


Doesn't stop people from spamming the spam forum though.


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## Zanzer (Jun 9, 2008)

Well it stop a little amount of people spamming.

A little bit of something is a whole lot better then, whole lot of nothing.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 9, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> Doesn't stop people from spamming the spam forum though.



Isn't that the point of spam forums?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 9, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> Doesn't stop people from spamming the spam forum though.


We just have to worry about the spam becoming self aware.


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## Bokracroc (Jun 9, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Isn't that the point of spam forums?


We already have mods whining about topics that reach 1000 posts that take up resources but then we have more awesome topics such as:
Let's Count to a million!
Do you know what's in this thread? (Tip: You've just lost The Game)
And
Uhh... I don't even have a clue.
That's after you've navigated around all of the 1k post threads which are barely even contain idle banter.


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## Xaerun (Jun 9, 2008)

Hooboy, it's like picking a fight with /b/. Granted, an eloquent and intelligent /b/, but /b/ nevertheless. I have to take the side of "Leave Black Hole alone". Although, it's late and I'm not going to expand on that.


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## Azure (Jun 9, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> We already have mods whining about topics that reach 1000 posts that take up resources but then we have more awesome topics such as:
> Let's Count to a million!
> Do you know what's in this thread? (Tip: You've just lost The Game)
> And
> ...


Then don't bother looking at them.  You already know it's just funny stuff, due to it being in the black hole, right?  It's not like the rest of the FA forums is bursting with content either.  How about the 3 recycled topics in R&R, Religion, I wish I was a Furry, and George Bush is an Asshole, or the Off Topic Forum, that poses questions like, WUD U BE A RL FURRIE IF U COULD??  The Black Hole serves as a both a humor outlet and a general bullshittery thread, and keeps as much of the spam in one place.  It's going to happen anyway, so why not control it.  And don't be such a poseur about post counting, nobody cares if you posted content or spam, there will always be some form of internet elitism, whether it be reg date, post count, friends on MYSPACE, or how cool your sig pic looks.


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## Eevee (Jun 9, 2008)

ExTo said:


> Why does anyone even *bother* about checking people's postcounts, and who cares where they come from?


People who want to know how many posts other users have..?



Bokracroc said:


> Keep it but disable Postcount +1 in it. Watch a quarter of the traffic in there slow down because of it.


No.  If the posts there aren't "worth" anything then it should just be removed.  Don't start this "well lol posts here are better than posts here" crap.


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## ExTo (Jun 9, 2008)

Eevee said:


> People who want to know how many posts other users have..?



*Facepalms*

And what the Hell does that mean anyway? Why would anyone want to know that? To be jealous because someone has more free time to waste, or likes to post silly spam one-liners? 

Postcounts. Are. Useless.

Whether or not they're there doesn't matter. Nobody should give a damn somone who joined in 2006 has 200 posts and another who joined in early 2008 has 1200. It means nothing, absolutely nothing, and there is not the slightest reason why you'd need to know how many posts a user has, or how many of them are from the forums you like/don't like. That's like saying "I'd like to know how many body hair you have". Why? No reason. You just do. That's entirely useless info, and serves no purpose whatsoever, I'll remind you. So why even give a damn about it?

Whether or not the posts add up to your postcount in the Black Hole, I couldn't care less. I don't use postcount to know if someone's opinion in the meaningful threads is "better", for God's sake, _I read the post is all_. Heck I'd be glad if posts stopped being counted in the Black Hole, just to avoid stupid purposeless whining threads like this one - I'd still post there, because it's FUN, and I don't like when people want to take away other people's fun because of _absolutely no goddamn decent reason whatsoever_, which makes me think they just got even more time to lose than the black hole addicts because they actually spend minutes of their life just pissing others off, I'll repeat, _for no good reason *at all*_.



> No. If the posts there aren't "worth" anything then it should just be removed.  Don't start this "well lol posts here are better than posts here" crap.



I'll tell you what they're worth : HAVING FUN. The NUMBER ONE point of any forum. ENJOYING YOURSELF. The Black Hole is fun, like the rest of the forum, just in a different way. Take it away, you take away people's fun, and limit the chances of obtaining it for everyone on the forum.

Might as well just scrap postcounts instead, for God's sake. Now THAT is something useless that just makes people turn against one another because some unreasonable persons, for a reason I still can't bring myself to understand, appear to be jealous when others' postcounts increase faster than theirs. Like that means anything at all. And what we get in the long run is pure time wasters like this thread.

Seriously, this is like bible fundies VS furry conventions here, except to an even lesser extent. No reason to take away people's fun, and yet some people want to! Just what the Hell is up with that?

I almost could say... what's wrong with you people? Why does it bother you so much? Just, why? >.<;

This rant is a presentation of ExTo, person who is tired of people wanting to take away other people's enjoyment in life just because they can and whom realizes it is perfectly hypocritical and ironic to say "why do you bother about this at all" after posting such a lost thing, but whom considers it's worth wasting his own time if it can make people realize this whole "affair" is a load of bullshit, hereby saving other people's time.


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## Mr Fox (Jun 9, 2008)

Lets count to a million is the greatest spam topic ever ;P


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## codewolf (Jun 9, 2008)

ExTo said:


> Take it away, you take away people's fun, and limit the chances of obtaining it for everyone on the forum.


personally i call 'Bollocks' on that.



ExTo said:


> what's wrong with you people? Why does it bother you so much? Just, why? >.<;


yea, ok, there are 3 moderators at the moment, and probably a max of 6 or so admins active on the forum, and after eevee worked it out, there are *OVER 52,000* posts that are from the 'first to 1000' threads.

So each staff member has over 6000 posts to trawl through each for those threads, then add on all the other topics and you have a shiteload of posts per person, its just impossible to keep an eye on stuff, of the emails that i have had with reported posts on the forums a good 80-90% of them have come from the black hole.


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## Eevee (Jun 9, 2008)

ExTo said:


> Postcounts. Are. Useless.


No.  They tell me how many posts someone has made.



ExTo said:


>


I don't know where the hell any of this is coming from; all I've said about postcount in this thread is that it shouldn't be artificially manipulated by some vague binary concept of worthiness.


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## Xipoid (Jun 9, 2008)

Well, if you remember before it's appearance, those threads in similarity to the 1000 post count or what if threads would appear in the off-topic section. The black hole was seemingly generated as a method of organization, while its creation did in fact lead towards an endorsement of that particular kind behavior (regardless of any actual endorsement).



If people are enjoying the subforum, I do not see a real reason to have it removed, unless some pertinent one can be supplied. However, as towards codewolf's concerns, perhaps appropriate measures should be taken regarding volume control/moderation, by either increasing volume able to be moderated, decreasing total volume, or some combination of the two should the problem be pressing enough.


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## ExTo (Jun 9, 2008)

Before getting on here, there's one thing I'd like to point out. Y'all surely don't know of that just yet, but I'm someone vocal, not unfair or obstinate. I know I put a lot of accent in my posts, but doubt feel too concerned about it, I'm always like that - so when I speak, pick the important points and ignore the pseudo-yelling. (Of course if any mod or admin judge my behavior is inappropriate I'll make an effort to restrict myself, but I don't think I go overboard)



codewolf said:


> personally i call 'Bollocks' on that.



That's your opinion and you have a right to hold it. I got nothing to say here.



> yea, ok, there are 3 moderators at the moment, and probably a max of 6 or so admins active on the forum, and after eevee worked it out, there are *OVER 52,000* posts that are from the 'first to 1000' threads.
> 
> So each staff member has over 6000 posts to trawl through each for those threads, then add on all the other topics and you have a shiteload of posts per person, its just impossible to keep an eye on stuff, of the emails that i have had with reported posts on the forums a good 80-90% of them have come from the black hole.



Ah, see, now THAT is a legitimate concern.

It'll have taken three pages, but now I can't say the anti-black hole people don't have any reason. Because now, you do. 

And it's a good one. And while I still personally think the Black Hole is worth existing, now that I've been provided with good reason why others could think it isn't... I'll stop defending it so much. We reached a point where holding a debate makes sense now, so I'll let the staff check up on all arguments and decide on their own now.



Eevee said:


> No.  They tell me how many posts someone has made.



Isn't that circular logic though? "Post counts are used to know how many posts the user has made. Why keep track of that? Well, because that way we know how many posts the user had made."

Honestly I never really saw the point behind postcounts, other than explaining themselves. Hence why I think the whole postcount VS Black Hole argument is... a pile of meh.



> I don't know where the hell any of this is coming from; all I've said about postcount in this thread is that it shouldn't be artificially manipulated by some vague binary concept of worthiness.



Well then that kind of limits options to three things : axe the Black Hole, axe postcounts or statu quo (of course that's disregarding codewolf's concerns). All three options would displease some (not that making Black Hole posts not count wouldn't anyway), so we're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place here.

Still, there's one thing that's sure : we shouldn't decide the fate of the Black Hole on the matter of postcount. It's just not worth the trouble, unlike moderation issues.

(On a side note, sorry if that sounds hypocritical, but that "words words words" smiley honestly insulted me...  )


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## Xaerun (Jun 9, 2008)

codewolf said:


> So each staff member has over 6000 posts to trawl through each for those threads, then add on all the other topics and you have a shiteload of posts per person, its just impossible to keep an eye on stuff, of the emails that i have had with reported posts on the forums a good 80-90% of them have come from the black hole.



Is that the same problem as thread tagging? People generally being idiots? If so, shouldn't false reporting result in disciplinary action being taken? Other than that, the staff shouldn't have to trawl through 6000 posts etc, as that's what the "Report Post" button is for. Of course, if it's being misused or overused my whole point goes down the drain...



Xipoid said:


> Well, if you remember before it's appearance, those threads in similarity to the 1000 post count or what if threads would appear in the off-topic section. The black hole was seemingly generated as a method of organization, while its creation did in fact lead towards an endorsement of that particular kind behavior (regardless of any actual endorsement).



Then, does the Three Frags Left forum encourage sitting at home doing nothing but video games? And does the 'Suits and Fursuiters' forum make the site have the standpoint that fursuiters are better than everyone else? I think not.

Similarly, does the presence of a psychiatric hospital in a community encourage everyone to go stark raving bonkers? (Get the connection? Black Hole, psychiatric hospital... bit of humour there) No.



ExTo said:


> Isn't that circular logic though? "Post counts are used to know how many posts the user has made. Why keep track of that? Well, because that way we know how many posts the user had made."



Ooh, I like it. Good point there.



ExTo said:


> but that "words words words" smiley honestly insulted me...  )



And it should have, I personally feel that was quite an immature move. I like you, Eevee, but that was unnecessary.


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## Xipoid (Jun 9, 2008)

ShadowKnuckles said:


> Then, does the Three Frags Left forum encourage sitting at home doing nothing but video games? And does the 'Suits and Fursuiters' forum make the site have the standpoint that fursuiters are better than everyone else? I think not.
> 
> Similarly, does the presence of a psychiatric hospital in a community encourage everyone to go stark raving bonkers? (Get the connection? Black Hole, psychiatric hospital... bit of humour there) No.




That's not quite what I meant. I was speaking about forum behavior. Allow me to clarify.


Having a section dedicated to "utterly off-topic" will have forum goers come to believe that it is perfectly acceptable under the rules to post random things (especially in that section). When such a subforum is omitted, some people will be hesitant to post such material as the staff will seemingly have no stance on the matter raising the question "Is this frowned upon or not?"


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## Azure (Jun 9, 2008)

codewolf said:


> personally i call 'Bollocks' on that.
> 
> 
> yea, ok, there are 3 moderators at the moment, and probably a max of 6 or so admins active on the forum, and after eevee worked it out, there are *OVER 52,000* posts that are from the 'first to 1000' threads.
> ...


You forget, most of those threads are months old, codewolf.  I really doubt that people are backreading them months after they are made.  And honestly, I have yet to see someone in the Black Hole banned or probated for reported posts.  Either someone is a bit fragile, or people are misusing the report posts function.  The forums are growing, and honestly, I think if you guys are as overworked as you say you are, you need to recruit some more mods or admins.  I only ever see the following staff online...
Dragoneer
Codewolf
Arshes Nei
Kyoujin

I know there are alot more of you guys, I can just never seem to remember their names, due to extreme inactivity.


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## Kiniel (Jun 9, 2008)

Xipoid said:


> Having a section dedicated to "utterly off-topic" will have forum goers come to believe that it is perfectly acceptable under the rules to post random things (especially in that section).



On the contrary, I'd think having a specific section for "off-topic" banter would imply that such randomness is _not_ tolerated elsewhere.  If it were, why would we have made a special section for it?  At least this way it keeps everything concentrated and gives the mods the ability to say "no, take this sort of activity _over here_."

Besides, having a place to be random and silly is fun, and this way it keeps it from clogging up the main boards.  (Also, talking about this makes me miss the "cuddles" thread... awww...)


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## Xipoid (Jun 9, 2008)

Kiniel said:


> On the contrary, I'd think having a specific section for "off-topic" banter would imply that such randomness is _not_ tolerated elsewhere.  If it were, why would we have made a special section for it?  At least this way it keeps everything concentrated and gives the mods the ability to say "no, take this sort of activity _over here_."
> 
> Besides, having a place to be random and silly is fun, and this way it keeps it from clogging up the main boards.  (Also, talking about this makes me miss the "cuddles" thread... awww...)




Well, I'm assuming someone is wise enough to post a thread in its appropriate forum. If that case is false, it doesn't really matter what subforums there are.


Also, I'm going to direct you back to my first post in this thread.


			
				Xipoid said:
			
		

> Well, if you remember before it's appearance, those threads in similarity to the 1000 post count or what if threads would appear in the off-topic section. The black hole was seemingly generated as a method of organization, while its creation did in fact lead towards an endorsement of that particular kind behavior (regardless of any actual endorsement).
> 
> 
> 
> If people are enjoying the subforum, I do not see a real reason to have it removed, unless some pertinent one can be supplied. However, as towards codewolf's concerns, perhaps appropriate measures should be taken regarding volume control/moderation, by either increasing volume able to be moderated, decreasing total volume, or some combination of the two should the problem be pressing enough.


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## Kiniel (Jun 10, 2008)

Darn it, I thought I had done all my reading before posting.  Sorry about that.

But yeah, I agree :3


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## Xaerun (Jun 10, 2008)

Essentially, it comes down to "Would you like the stuff that goes on in Black Hole to end up in Off Topic?"


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## Stratelier (Jun 10, 2008)

FWIW, I don't see a yes/no answer to the one question I asked . . . oh, two or so pages back in the thread.

Post counts are best interpreted when viewed alongside one's registration date.


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## ExTo (Jun 10, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Post counts are best interpreted when viewed alongside one's registration date.



IMO... postcounts are best interpretated when ignored.


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## Takun (Jun 10, 2008)

I like the 1k thread.  Yeah, I've probably been reported by people.  It happens.  Some people take a joke too seriously or I take one too far.  I'm not known for holding back.


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## Erro (Jun 10, 2008)

Wow, four pages now. what a joke...
Seriously, I have to ask. Do people honestly have nothing better to do with their time than butthurt over stuff they aren't even involved in?
"It's just a way to up post counts" is the DUMBEST argument I have ever heard in my life. HOLY CRAP people are getting in lots of posts. This is bad, we should remove the thread they post in so they don't post so much. If "post counts" don't matter, why the hell are people complaining about them? Seriously, thats a good page worth of crap on this thread alone.
"Look at the topics, they are pointless." Well no shit, its the BLACK HOLE. Isn't that the idea? Its where us /b/tards and holegans get on to kick back, spam a bit with random .jpgs and memes, lollerskate in circles and somehow end up in gaint pile of gay orgyness. Not your cup of soup? Theres a whole lot of other forum space to look at, your in no way required to go look at whats going on there. I daresay there are parts of the forum that I don't visit, because I have no reason to go there, no interest in the topics and nothing relevant to add. Who is anyone on this forum to say that other topics that they don't post in are too pointless to allow?
"Too hard to moderate" The people that go into the 1k thread and similar such things are well aware of exactly the activity that takes place in them. For the most part it is moderated quite well within itself, IMO. We push our boundaries sometimes, but there has yet to be anything even remotely resembling outright yiff rp in even the worst of our 1k threads. I've seen very little, if any, of a mod having to come in and say "this is not acceptable." We goof around, act silly, flirt, and enjoy ourselves, and no one gets hurt, with the exception of the apparently sensitive rumps of certain people who only go to said threads to quote things to gripe about.
"It takes up data space" Well, its not like we are overly keen on any material past the second page, I'm sure there would be no objections to wiping out the backlog data past page three of the thread lists, considering most of it is just old threads that we have new versions of anyway.
The Black hole is the meeting ground for those of us who come here to chill and have a good time together. Its like a vacation from reality, as well as a convenient place to redirect things to that don't belong in other parts of the forum. Members take much more kindly to 'moving this thread to Black Hole' than 'DELETED!!". We are just here for fun, let it be had without causing needless drama.


Live and let live, I say!

Moonlight Guardian
~Erro Shadowpaw


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## Dragoneer (Jun 10, 2008)

Erro said:


> Wow, four pages now. what a joke...
> Seriously, I have to ask. Do people honestly have nothing better to do with their time than butthurt over stuff they aren't even involved in?


I think the biggest problem is that


The Black Hold has a negative effect on forum performance, slowing down the overall site over time
Many of the posts violate a lot of FA rules and can be questionable in intent.


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## Xaerun (Jun 10, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I think the biggest problem is that
> 
> 
> The Black Hold has a negative effect on forum performance, slowing down the overall site over time
> Many of the posts violate a lot of FA rules and can be questionable in intent.



Doesn't that just call for more rules on Black Hole?


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 10, 2008)

Erro said:


> Wow, four pages now. what a joke...
> Seriously, I have to ask. Do people honestly have nothing better to do with their time than butthurt over stuff they aren't even involved in?
> "It's just a way to up post counts" is the DUMBEST argument I have ever heard in my life. HOLY CRAP people are getting in lots of posts. This is bad, we should remove the thread they post in so they don't post so much. If "post counts" don't matter, why the hell are people complaining about them? Seriously, thats a good page worth of crap on this thread alone.
> "Look at the topics, they are pointless." Well no shit, its the BLACK HOLE. Isn't that the idea? Its where us /b/tards and holegans get on to kick back, spam a bit with random .jpgs and memes, lollerskate in circles and somehow end up in gaint pile of gay orgyness. Not your cup of soup? Theres a whole lot of other forum space to look at, your in no way required to go look at whats going on there. I daresay there are parts of the forum that I don't visit, because I have no reason to go there, no interest in the topics and nothing relevant to add. Who is anyone on this forum to say that other topics that they don't post in are too pointless to allow?
> ...



I wish I could RP right now.  That was so beautifully put.


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## Erro (Jun 10, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I think the biggest problem is that
> 
> 
> The Black Hold has a negative effect on forum performance, slowing down the overall site over time
> Many of the posts violate a lot of FA rules and can be questionable in intent.



As I put, I really don't think anyone will object to cleaning out most of the old threads, theres too much garbage for anyone to try to backread through it, and most of the old threads are old 1ks and old versions of random pics and the like. Aside from a couple hours at a rather consistent time every night the transfer rate is just fine, and there is minimal lag, so that can't possibly be much of an issue.
As far as the rules go, thats up to admin discretion, I have no grounds of authority on such matters. Really its just a lax area where people goof off and have a good time, no one gets hurt. I personally think it should just be let alone, unless something actually in need of some sort of action arises, IMHO


----------



## Azure (Jun 10, 2008)

Dragoneer said:


> I think the biggest problem is that
> 
> 
> The Black Hold has a negative effect on forum performance, slowing down the overall site over time
> Many of the posts violate a lot of FA rules and can be questionable in intent.


Is there not a way to outright delete the old threads?  It's not like we need any of the backlog, it's all nonsensical stuff, and can go away.  And I still don't see anyone getting banned or probated for things they have done.  We have managed to bring the RP under a good bit of control, and the image macros have nearly disappeared.  I think there might have been like 2 in the last 2 threads.  Hardly stuff to worry about.  Honestly, I still don't understand why a thread with 1000 posts is different from a thread with 100ish, a forum is just a collection of text messages, no?  I would think that deleting the significant backlog of junk every once in a while would do the site well anyway, the only thing people do with those threads from 2006 is necro the bejeesus out of em.


----------



## Bokracroc (Jun 10, 2008)

I like how moderation is basically non-existent unless a RP or Image macro is posted.


----------



## Erro (Jun 10, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> I like how moderation is basically non-existent unless a RP or Image macro is posted.



All that moderation is really there for is to keep people from getting upset/offended. If no one is hurt, what need is there for moderation?


----------



## Azure (Jun 10, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> I like how moderation is basically non-existent unless a RP or Image macro is posted.


Not much else to moderate on the Black Hole.  It's not like folks getting their panties in a bunch in R&R, calling each other assholes and such.  And it's not like our threads can go Off Topic, since they don't much have one to begin with.  Truthfully, this forum is in real need of more mods.  There are waaaaaay too few, I've heard.


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## Xaerun (Jun 10, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Not much else to moderate on the Black Hole.  It's not like folks getting their panties in a bunch in R&R, calling each other assholes and such.  And it's not like our threads can go Off Topic, since they don't much have one to begin with.  Truthfully, this forum is in real need of more mods.  There are waaaaaay too few, I've heard.



Is that similar to codewolf's point on too many posts to moderate..?


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## Azure (Jun 10, 2008)

ShadowKnuckles said:


> Is that similar to codewolf's point on too many posts to moderate..?


Sarcasm, mah boi.  And no, I don't think there really are too many posts to moderate, as the reported ones are the only ones that should be, IMO.  But I do think that the board needs more mods, if just for R&R alone.  People think were insulting, go there for a good dose.


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## Stratelier (Jun 10, 2008)

> Is there not a way to outright delete the old threads?


Does vBulletin offer auto-pruning?  (I know phpBB does, but that deletes announcements/pinned threads too so it must be used with care)


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## Armaetus (Jun 14, 2008)

I just don't see the point of a spam forum, might as well have the channers spam their crap elsewhere like SA or a number of other *chan sites, not clog this site with useless posts to make their epeen seem superior to those with less than 100 posts.

The Black Hole was just an excuse to get all the kids out of 'reasonable' forum sections(IE the other forums besides BH) so they can spam their retarded memes as much as I can. If I had some power, I would not tolerate forum games like what is happenning there right now.

Why not just delete everything in the Black Hole every week or bimonthly so people are forced to make reasonable posts elsewhere if they want a 'real' postcount that does not involve +1ing all their favorite little games there.

I also think that forum dumbs down the whole site for the chanfurs to post their crap elsewhere, not to mention it chews up bandwidth that Dragoneer is paying out of his own pockets.


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## Rilvor (Jun 14, 2008)

Wow, oh wow, this is just....wow.

Ok, let's examine the forums here for a minute.

New Forum Discussion - Important information
Site Status - Important Information
As well as the rest of the Fur Affinity Discussion group.
However Link of the Day is debatable, since we're talking about useless things that are just spam since it's linked on the mainsite right?

The Den - Full of overused topics. "Do you wish you were a real furry?" "What X about your fursona" "CSI: blah blah" "fursuiting in public" "telling your parents you are furry"

Worthless spam and idle chatter, kind of like the black hole furry style.

Clearly most threads in The Den need to be deleted since they've all been posted before, it's all useless spam.

Fursuiting: "Where do you buy fursuits" "Why do you X" "do you X" "are fursuits hot?"
Also full of repeat topics.

The Paper Mill: barely used.
Conventioneering - Important Information, but still has the same topics posted over and over.

Introductions - Worthless forum. Full of the same generic "hellos" and same generic intros.

Off-Topic - Watered down version of The Black Hole. Useless spam threads like "WHat are you listening to?" "randomness" "what movie is better" "collars" "whats your sexual orientation?"
Basically full of pointless banter. KIND OF LIKE THE BLACK HOLE.

The Black Hole - Caters to posting deemed as spam, forum games, pointless banter, idle chatter, basically a waste of space like a TON of other forums here!

Three Frags Left - Off Topic for video games.

Bits and Bytes - Off Topic for computer nerds.

The Tube - basically filled with youtube links or pointless banter about something on tv or music

Rants and Raves - Full of pointless bitching and whining, namecalling, arguments, and general fucking stupidity. More bans and infractions have come from here than ANYWHERE. If anything, THIS forum needs to go.

And the rest are actually key to a furry site.


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## Azure (Jun 14, 2008)

Gee, passive aggressive much, way to drag out a dead horse a beat it some more.  I post in all the forums, not just the Black Hole, and it is pretty rude to insinuate that all people who post there are just chan kids, and only post there exclusively.  And many forums have games as such, even the elitist ones.  And how are "they" dumbing down the site?


----------



## Rilvor (Jun 14, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Gee, passive aggressive much, way to drag out a dead horse a beat it some more.  I post in all the forums, not just the Black Hole, and it is pretty rude to insinuate that all people who post there are just chan kids, and only post there exclusively.  And many forums have games as such, even the elitist ones.  And how are "they" dumbing down the site?


Because most of the forums in my above post are somehow magically not as spammy and full of repeat topics, definitely not a waste of space.


----------



## Erro (Jun 14, 2008)

mrchris said:


> If I had some power, I would not tolerate forum games like what is happenning there right now.



I guess those of us that post there will take it as a kindness that you don't have any power, then. Don't bash on stuff just because its not your thing. Those people that _do_ have power have already spoken their piece, and it doesn't seem they are keen on removing it. So why not just leave the thing be, and go on back to whatever you were doing before you decided to go out of your way just to tick people off. kthnxbai

Ditto on Rilvor's post, I agree 100%


----------



## Wait Wait (Jun 14, 2008)

> I just don't see the point of a spam forum, might as well have the channers spam their crap elsewhere like SA or a number of other *chan sites, not clog this site with useless posts to make their epeen seem superior to those with less than 100 posts.


"useless" is entirely subjective _and_ relative.  and also, if the black hole was gone, all these "useless" posts would instead be in the forums _you _deem good enough.



> The Black Hole was just an excuse to get all the kids out of 'reasonable' forum sections(IE the other forums besides BH) so they can spam their retarded memes as much as I can. If I had some power, I would not tolerate forum games like what is happenning there right now.


1.  it's mostly chatting, with some pictures thrown in, not just people "spamming retarded memes"
2.  what's wrong with having forum games, do you hate fun or something?



> Why not just delete everything in the Black Hole every week or bimonthly so people are forced to make reasonable posts elsewhere if they want a 'real' postcount that does not involve +1ing all their favorite little games there.


no one cares about post counts but you!  they mean_ nothing at all_.  Also, i think all the fairly old threads should be deleted to save space.


> I also think that forum dumbs down the whole site for the chanfurs to post their crap elsewhere, not to mention it chews up bandwidth that Dragoneer is paying out of his own pockets.


how much bandwith does it really eat up,  would anyone like to tell me if it has actual significant effects on the performance of the site as a whole?

and how do you determine who should post here.  clearly not "chanfurs" (i for one never visit chans, so...).  i think it's an area of the forums designed for people different from you, and unless you have any real reasons as to why it should be deleted, other than your crying about postcounts and spam (that you don't have to see!), then i see no reason as to why the black hole should be deleted.


----------



## IceDragonVisy (Jun 14, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Does vBulletin offer auto-pruning?  (I know phpBB does, but that deletes announcements/pinned threads too so it must be used with care)


Seconding this question. It'd also help solve the occasional thread necromancy as well.


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## codewolf (Jun 14, 2008)

Bokracroc said:


> I like how moderation is basically non-existent unless a RP or Image macro is posted.



care to do my job??
actually i'll rephrase that.....

would you like to moderate a forum with god-knows how many users, a proportion of which post pointless crap which takes longer than you have in a day to look through, in your spare time when you are not working or out having a social life?

RP an and Macros seem to be removed more often than others because they are higher profile.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 14, 2008)

Still discussing this, I see.  Oh well, I'll leave it be.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jun 14, 2008)

My $.02

I could see folding off topic, the black hole and rants and raves into a single thing, since I don't really see much of difference between what I see posted there. Papermill and the Tube could probably be folded into an "Entertainment" thread, possibly moving 3 frags left into it also. I don't really read the fursuit one, so I'm not as informed as Rilvor but because it's a big aspect of the fandom I'd say it might be reasonable to keep it out of the Den. It also seems like people don't discriminate between posting for commissioned artwork and free artwork so we might as well collapse those into a single place.


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## TheGreatCrusader (Jun 14, 2008)

Post count? I don't even know mine, nor do I care.


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## Aurali (Jun 14, 2008)

As for what I've seen, there isn't much moderation on these forums as is. Then again, I don't wanna say that and find out a moderator is stalking me (IE: what happened on YS). Meh. 
The forum is growing, and that means the site needs to take on more staff(and possibly filter staff to specific forums to keep things efficient). And anyone who asks for it, even passively, really shouldn't get it, as they are more likely to abuse the power than a person who just acts responsibly.

Now on the topic at hand, I have a Case Study:

Anyone who has traveled to yiffstar back in '07 would remember the offtopic spam thread. There was only one, and it was the quickest growing thread on the site. Now yiffstar has a MUCH larger no spam policy than FA, as half the threads you see here would have been quickly locked. Though lets take that into account to. The spam thread eventually became too large, taking 1000 pages (or 15000 posts) and was eventually locked and removed permanently. Spam didn't grow much, but it grew. Slowly. Now half the site has a spam moment in it somewhere.. and besides that, the site is pretty much useless repeat topics one after another.

and I really hope that I was unbiased about that ><


----------



## Erro (Jun 14, 2008)

Well, with an absence of truly stupid remarks to comment on since my last post, I have to comment (with a certain measure of amusement, I might add) on a little thing I have noticed. With the topics that take place all over the board, I can understand that moderation can at times be quite a troublesome task. I give the mods here a good bit of credit in the fact that in six months of posting here I have yet to see any serious moderation issues. So what I have to chuckle at here is that people who are asking for the forum administration to take action would do so by outright blatantly insulting them. I've already lost count of the number of times I have read comments of mods not doing their job, or doing it poorly, remarks of how they think the administration is wrong. Good job guys, excellent way to go about pitching your cause. I have yet to pay a single penny for the services that FurAffinity has offered me, and I would *not* be complaining about the quality of said service, considering the hard work that has been put into maintaining both this forum and the main site. Site Discussion is a place for new ideas, thoughts and input on how to make the forum better. Starting a flame war and griping about things you don't agree with is just asking to dig under some peoples' fur.


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## supercutefurri58 (Jun 14, 2008)

hahahahaha

good show


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## Zentio (Jun 14, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> My $.02
> 
> I could see folding off topic, the black hole and rants and raves into a single thing, since I don't really see much of difference between what I see posted there. Papermill and the Tube could probably be folded into an "Entertainment" thread, possibly moving 3 frags left into it also. I don't really read the fursuit one, so I'm not as informed as Rilvor but because it's a big aspect of the fandom I'd say it might be reasonable to keep it out of the Den. It also seems like people don't discriminate between posting for commissioned artwork and free artwork so we might as well collapse those into a single place.




I agree with this post. 
Except the Requests and Commission forums merge. Mainly cause some people don't know the difference between the two and if they're separate forums at least if someone makes a wrongly named thread, it can be moved to the right forum.
Also it'd prolly annoy artists that are looking to do commissions getting flooded with requests and not commissions. I know one kid, musta gotten lost or something, went into the Requests forum and was flaming anyone that was asking for a request. I can just see that happening a lot more if they were merged.


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## Armaetus (Jun 14, 2008)

Maybe if it's set to the postcount does NOT go up in the BH?


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## Erro (Jun 14, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Maybe if it's set to the postcount does NOT go up in the BH?



Why are you so anal about the BH not counting for post counts? Does it bother you when other people have higher counts than you? If it doesn't matter, then why are you so insistent that it be changed? Does it really deserve this much attention? And does it really deserve the admins needlessly digging into the forum settings to tinker with stuff when they have enough site coding to worry about?


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## Takun (Jun 15, 2008)

wrong forum...


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## AlexInsane (Jun 15, 2008)

Dude, we're not a bunch of post count Nazis here, okay? 

I came here to look around and have a good time, which I have on a semi-regular basis with one or more whores. Post-counts are milestones, but they serve no extra purpose. It's not like I go around pointing to my post count and go "SEE THIS? THIS MEANS YOU'RE MY BITCH."


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## Takun (Jun 15, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Maybe if it's set to the postcount does NOT go up in the BH?



Why bother?


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## Wait Wait (Jun 15, 2008)

i can only see site performance issues being a legitimate problem.  mods, is the black hole directly responsible for a drop in site performance?


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## Rilvor (Jun 16, 2008)

A note about The Black Hole: I really do think the forum games have gotten out of control. We don't need 4 or 5 forum games, 1 or 2 was fine, but multiple forum games is...it just needs to go imo. They don't even contribute conversation.


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## Aurali (Jun 16, 2008)

AlexInsane said:


> It's not like I go around pointing to my post count and go "SEE THIS? THIS MEANS YOU'RE MY BITCH."



Yeah seriously. otherwise we'd be all fucked by Rilvor.. and really >..> he seems a bit emo to me. Not the kind of person you'd want controlling you. Suicide Cults are not fun.


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## Rilvor (Jun 16, 2008)

Eli said:


> Yeah seriously. otherwise we'd be all fucked by Rilvor.. and really >..> he seems a bit emo to me. Not the kind of person you'd want controlling you. Suicide Cults are not fun.



Last I checked, I've never been depressed or acted thusly, therefore you troll attempt fails.


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## Kyoujin (Jun 16, 2008)

Erro said:


> Why are you so anal about the BH not counting for post counts? Does it bother you when other people have higher counts than you? If it doesn't matter, then why are you so insistent that it be changed? Does it really deserve this much attention? And does it really deserve the admins needlessly digging into the forum settings to tinker with stuff when they have enough site coding to worry about?



.. lol. Uh, well it's also the fact that we don't need to be "needlessly digging" into all the issues with people getting on each other in the BH. It's an issue to have to babysit when people start getting out of hand, especially on a big forum like that.

I want to keep the BH around. I just think there does need to be a few rules laid out.


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## Rilvor (Jun 16, 2008)

I think a dedicated moderator to The Black Hole would help it. By that I mean someone who moderates just The Black Hole, is at least somewhat active, and has the guts to do what needs to be done.

Drama in the black hole, as I've seen so far, is rare and tends to work itself out with no injury for either side if Big Brother keeps their hands out of it.


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## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

I noticed that the post count stopped going up. Even though I think it's a good move, I really do think that you should of announced it.. It causes a bit of confusion. If you did no one seems to be able to find it so bah.





Rilvor said:


> Last I checked, I've never been depressed or acted thusly, therefore you troll attempt fails.



I wasn't trying to troll. I was trying to be funny. Stop being so Emo and take a joke


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## Tungen (Jun 17, 2008)

... I'm... not entirely sure why the sanctity and purity of postcounts is so desperately in need of preservation, since it's just a frigging number, but okay... o-O


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> I noticed that the post count stopped going up. Even though I think it's a good move, I really do think that you should of announced it.. It causes a bit of confusion. If you did no one seems to be able to find it so bah.



Agree.  I'm fucking pissed.  I wouldn't be so much if it was announced, but it wasn't so yeah...


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Lol, post counts.

In other news, Fur Affinity further proves it listens to BAWWW more than it does logic once again, not surprising.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 17, 2008)

Tungen said:


> ... I'm... not entirely sure why the sanctity and purity of postcounts is so desperately in need of preservation, since it's just a frigging number, but okay... o-O



It nullifies the status under our avatars.  MIGHT AS WELL GET RID OF THOSE WHILE THEY'RE AT IT!!!


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## Zanzer (Jun 17, 2008)

Huh?

damn it;s true


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Damn, I hate these mods too. I'm siding with Shark.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 17, 2008)

Only works in the BlackHole.


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## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

Of course it only works in the black hole. That's the only place where people actually fight for post counts. I'd get rid of them in entirety. The postcounts I mean.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Stratadrake said:


> Does vBulletin offer auto-pruning?  (I know phpBB does, but that deletes announcements/pinned threads too so it must be used with care)



It does, but the fact the forum is being used as an IRC or chat when chat clients are built for it are still going to cause problems with performance. It is already. You can't expect moderators to moderate if they can't even log in due to shoddy performance.

You have a Games Forum, a TV/Movies Forum, and Art Forum, Off Topic forum, if you can't relax there then I think there might be something else you need to look into medically. I'm sorry, but the forums were already set up to talk about entertainment. It seems really silly that one can't even relax enough on an entertainment site.


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## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Only works in the BlackHole.



So don't try to have fun upping your post counts there, if that's what the mods are pissed about.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> It does, but the fact the forum is being used as an IRC or chat when chat clients are built for it are still going to cause problems with performance. It is already. You can't expect moderators to moderate if they can't even log in due to shoddy performance.
> 
> You have a Games Forum, a TV/Movies Forum, and Art Forum, Off Topic forum, if you can't relax there then I think there might be something else you need to look into medically. I'm sorry, but the forums were already set up to talk about entertainment. It seems really silly that one can't even relax enough on an entertainment site.



Sometimes we wanna have fun like 1k threads. And some of us just aren't suited for these discussions of art and entertainment or like me have a bad way of wording things. The Black Hole just seems calmer.


----------



## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> It seems really silly that one can't even relax enough on an entertainment site.



Seriously? I thought it was a community based site.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> Sometimes we wanna have fun like 1k threads. And some of us just aren't suited for these discussions of art and entertainment or like me have a bad way of wording things. The Black Hole just seems calmer.



It's not. It's a headache for moderators. There are places like chat. FA had this problem with people RPing. In the end, they created their own chatrooms.


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## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> Seriously? I thought it was a community based site.



*insert Lex Luthor WRONG* (apparently)


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> Seriously? I thought it was a community based site.



No it has a community based upon ENTERTAINMENT. But I don't even know why you want to engage in semantics?


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> No it has a community based upon ENTERTAINMENT. But I don't even know why you want to engage in semantics?



Well to break it to ya, once you create a forum there are some aspects of it that will not go your way.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> Well to break it to ya, once you create a forum there are some aspects of it that will not go your way.



Re-read my statement. Because you're making a nonsensical argument.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Lol, you guys are fighting a losing battle, just give up and go quietly. They admins will do what they want.


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## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Re-read my statement. Because you're making a nonsensical argument.



I am NOT starting an argument! I am stating some facts I know from being on other forums!


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> I am NOT starting an argument! I am stating some facts I know from being on other forums!



Arguments = discussion as someone once said. It doesn't end up with "Fighting". It is talking about counter points. My statement is that you replied with post that has nothing to do with what I said, therefore a nonsensical argument.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> I am NOT starting an argument! I am stating some facts I know from being on other forums!



Other forums do not equal these.  Listen to the mods, they are just doing there job.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Arguments = discussion as someone once said. Where it's counter points. My statement is that you replied with post that has nothing to do with what I said, therefore a nonsensical argument.



It had everything to do with it, I am just providing some advice. Because I know in a game forum it will be all about games. What about Off Topic here? Some of the threads move far away from the Entertainment forum you want it to be. And sometimes wishes don't come true.


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## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

I will say however, that this is a proof of the contradiction of the claims that "post counts don't matter', which amuses me greatly.


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## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> I will say however, that this is a proof of the contradiction of the claims that "post counts don't matter', which amuses me greatly.



GTFO with your 35 posts nubsauce.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> It had everything to do with it, I am just providing some advice. Because I know in a game forum it will be all about games. What about Off Topic here? Some of the threads move far away from the Entertainment forum you want it to be. And sometimes wishes don't come true.



*Which has nothing to do with what I said*


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> *Which has nothing to do with what I said*



And is why you can't take advice?


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## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

So is the life of the Black Hole and 1k still up in the air?  Or was this disabling post counts for it the end?


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## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> GTFO with your 35 posts nubsauce.



BAWWWWW!!!!

POST COUNT ELITISM!!!

I'm sort of glad to see it go though.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's not. It's a headache for moderators. There are places like chat. FA had this problem with people RPing. In the end, they created their own chatrooms.



Uh, so? Aren't people supposed to _chat_ about Entertainment?


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> BAWWWWW!!!!
> 
> POST COUNT ELITISM!!!
> 
> I'm sort of glad to see it go though.



I know the feeling...I'm glad the WoW boards didn't keep track, I might have had to get a life.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> And is why you can't take advice?



I'm laughing hard now. You seriously didn't even comprehend the part you quoted me when you started this with me did you? Your replies have nothing to do with what I said when you quoted me.

Now it's like "you can't take advice" what does that have anything to do with asking why is there a semantics debate XD


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> Uh, so? Aren't people supposed to _chat_ about Entertainment?



Not in the style you're proposing. That's why they created this nifty thing called *I*nstant *M*essngers.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I'm laughing hard now. You seriously didn't even comprehend the part you quoted me when you started this with me did you? Your replies have nothing to do with what I said when you quoted me.
> 
> Now it's like "you can't take advice" what does that have anything to do with asking why is there a semantics debate XD



I comprehend much well then I did before. My interpertation: I can't stand the Black Hole. I can't stand the Black Hole. I can't stand the Black Hole.

Come on, relax, live a little!


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## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not in the style you're proposing. That's why they created this nifty thing called *I*nstant *M*essngers.



Can I just say that 1k is much, much easier to chat in then chat rooms.  <3 the 45 second wait timer.


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## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not in the style you're proposing. That's why they created this nifty thing called *I*nstant *M*essngers.



Sometimes people want to get outcome/critique from a bigger group of people other than their friends. Just my POV. I can't think of much other right now.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 17, 2008)

Hmm...  I forgot what I was going to say.


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## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Can I just say that 1k is much, much easier to chat in then chat rooms.  <3 the 45 second wait timer.



It probably should be moved to a program that involved a mass chat room in an IM program. The days of The Black Hole are numbered, it won't be long before the admins remove it, and hopefully Drama Section Rants and Raves with it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> I comprehend much well then I did before.



Speak like Yoda you do.


----------



## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> No it has a community based upon ENTERTAINMENT. But I don't even know why you want to engage in semantics?



cause it's entertaining to talk about semantics? No. The point is that a community is gonna want discussion about other topics? People want to talk. Though that's also why there is chat. No worries. I'm just trying to be difficult.


Sulroth said:


> Lol, you guys are fighting a losing battle, just give up and go quietly. They admins will do what they want.


True. Can't fight a moderator less you risk banning.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Speak like Yoda you do.



I don't care. everyone has their own way of wording things.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> It probably should be moved to a program that involved a mass chat room in an IM program. The days of The Black Hole are numbered, it won't be long before the admins remove it, and hopefully Drama Section Rants and Raves with it.



Inevitable really....

"Here's a spam board guys."

*time passes*

"Wtf people are spamming the spam board."


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 17, 2008)

So... when is The BlackHole being removed?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> cause it's entertaining to talk about semantics? No. The point is that a community is gonna want discussion about other topics? People want to talk. Though that's also why there is chat. No worries. I'm just trying to be difficult.



Well at least *you* understood what I said. 

It's that the Black Hole is affecting performance, and I'm sorry the number of people bitching they can't even get status of FA's mainsite or helpdesk support will be much greater than losing a forum that can come back at any time we have the staff to work on it.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> So... when is The BlackHole being removed?



Soon. And then the drama probably come back. Or spartansquirrel. :sarcasm:


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well at least *you* understood what I said.
> 
> It's that the Black Hole is affecting performance, and I'm sorry the number of people bitching they can't even get status of FA's mainsite or helpdesk support will be much greater than losing a forum that can come back at any time we have the staff to work on it.



In other words, she's saying: Get your contacts and plans down now, save any cool pictures, as The Black Hole will be gone by the end of the week.

Honestly, did the administration even think this through? It should have been expected a spam board would be spammed to hell and rape the servers.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Inevitable really....
> 
> "Here's a spam board guys."
> 
> ...



FA does have it's own IRC channel and you can create your own irc channels on the networks.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

So can 1k....like move to off topic


The ship may be sinking, but I'll steer it as long as I can. =X


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> FA does have it's own IRC channel and you can create your own irc channels on the networks.



Pfft, IRC is shit, and most people know it. Even the unreliable PoS that is Windows Live Messenger is easier to use.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Honestly, did the administration even think this through? It should have been expected a spam board would be spammed to hell and rape the servers.



To be quite frank with you: The rest of staff weren't even asked before the board was set up. We would have told him no until we had staff in place.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> FA does have it's own IRC channel and you can create your own irc channels on the networks.



Oh I don't mind.  Do what you guys have to for the site.  I was just pointing out the humor in a spam board...getting spammed.

btw, I so would mod the black hole if that's all I had to mod.  Maybe even just 1k :O


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> To be quite frank with you: The rest of staff weren't even asked before the board was set up. We would have told him no until we had staff in place.



So in less words: No, it wasn't.

Still it was fun while it lasted, and was interesting to watch a community develop in a community, coming up with its own trends, cliques, and memes.

Golds, In the Ghetto, Pants of Steel, ect.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Pfft, IRC is shit, and most people know it. Even the unreliable PoS that is Windows Live Messenger is easier to use.



Been using it for years, and have had less issues than I've had with MSN. Also most instant messengers allow you to create chatrooms too.


----------



## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well at least *you* understood what I said.
> 
> It's that the Black Hole is affecting performance, and I'm sorry the number of people bitching they can't even get status of FA's mainsite or helpdesk support will be much greater than losing a forum that can come back at any time we have the staff to work on it.



Yeah. I also understand that. I'm staring into the blackhole each day and wondering, WTF are these threads doing here? Threads should have a purpose more than boosting a post count. Some of the threads I participate in cause I find it fun.. though most have no value whatsoever.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Been using it for years, and have had less issues than I've had with MSN. Also most instant messengers allow you to create chatrooms too.



As I stated in earlier with mass IM rooms.

You see that's the key, you've been using it for years. Trying to get 15-20 people who are new to it to try and figure out one of the most user unfriendly chat programs I've ever run across would be a nightmare.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> Yeah. I also understand that. I'm staring into the blackhole each day and wondering, WTF are these threads doing here? Threads should have a purpose more than boosting a post count. Some of the threads I participate in cause I find it fun.. though most have no value whatsoever.



They are there because they are lot of fun.


----------



## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> They are there because they are lot of fun.



look at most of the threads.. seriously. Why are they there? Just random garbage threads with garbage memes thrown in.
My original complaint here was the lack of announcement. I agree with everything else.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> look at most of the threads.. seriously. Why are they there? Just random garbage threads with garbage memes thrown in.
> My original complaint here was the lack of announcement. I agree with everything else.



I actually saw this coming the moment people starting whining about post counts (takes a moment to LOL at all the hypocrisy visible in this thread).

But I fully agree, 1K aside all of The Black Hole was shit, and the 1K would even become questionable at times.


----------



## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

You know. Back on Yiffstar I've actually had my post count cut TWICE to keep it from being where rilvors is now.I don't want people knowing of me cause of my post count, but what I contribute (or lack of) :3


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> As I stated in earlier with mass IM rooms.
> 
> You see that's the key, you've been using it for years. Trying to get 15-20 people who are new to it to try and figure out one of the most user unfriendly chat programs I've ever run across would be a nightmare.



Yes, and I had to start somewhere, correct? It means I was new to it too and grew accustomed to it. I even remember ICQ and ICQ *monster horn*



brownsquirrel said:


> They are there because they are lot of fun.



Have you ever considered thinking a bit before typing? You don't need to respond to everything XD


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Eli said:


> look at most of the threads.. seriously. Why are they there? Just random garbage threads with garbage memes thrown in.
> My original complaint here was the lack of announcement. I agree with everything else.



Besides it, there is some general talk about the thread title. Though if there was a 1k: Pokemon Edition and all the talk on every post was about Pokemon would it brighten the mods mood?

I can't explain why it is almost like chat like there, but at least I gave counterexample on how the threads could've flowed.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yes, and I had to start somewhere, correct? It means I was new to it too and grew accustomed to it. I even remember ICQ and ICQ *monster horn*
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever considered thinking a bit before typing? You don't need to respond to everything XD



If it sparks my interest, I reply. If you keep neglecting/humiliating me, I'll be out of my chill mode and start hating the mods again.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yes, and I had to start somewhere, correct? It means I was new to it too and grew accustomed to it. I even remember ICQ and ICQ *monster horn*
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever considered thinking a bit before typing? You don't need to respond to everything XD



You should probably post a guide somewhere before The Black Hole is shut down, the current one (if its still there, it's been a while) is next to useless.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> If it sparks my interest, I reply. If you keep neglecting/humiliating me, I'll be out of my chill mode and start hating the mods again.



It doesn't matter if you hate us, you do need to consider what you type before typing. You're also using a lot of incorrect terminology. 

"Speak softly and carry a big stick"...


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> It doesn't matter if you hate us, you do need to consider what you type before typing. You're also using a lot of incorrect terminology.
> 
> "Speak softly and carry a big stick"...



I am using correct terminology at all times, or you want me out of my chill mode do you? Or you're going to LOL at every attempt of users trying to proving you wrong, amirite?


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> It doesn't matter if you hate us, you do need to consider what you type before typing. You're also using a lot of incorrect terminology.
> 
> "Speak softly and carry a big stick"...



Could you like...ignore Brownsquirrel and focus more on those of us with more important things to discuss? It's fun I know but not much of an achievement.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Could you like...ignore Brownsquirrel and focus more on those of us with more important things to discuss? It's fun I know but not much of an achievement.



I will not like to be ignored. I am just a so-called minor that mods have control over my status at all time. I guess that would substitute for all users as well.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> I will not like to be ignored. I am just a so-called minor that mods have control over my status at all time. I guess that would substitute for all users as well.



Your points are irrelevant and useless, whats done is done, and what will be done will be done, some of us would like to focus on the future instead of dragging our ass and having a petty fight with the admins.


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Wow, amazing, so the 1K thread will be moved to another thread, in another incarnation, and nothing was solved at the end of the day.  I've never had a problem logging in to FA, or the mainsite.  But hey, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> You should probably post a guide somewhere before The Black Hole is shut down, the current one (if its still there, it's been a while) is next to useless.



Oh I have no problem with following up and giving how to guides.

The thing is Black Hole's current state is a performance problem and maintenance, though that's not to say it can't come back in a small way. We just don't have the staff for it, the server power as far I see to keep it.

Were it up to me before the creation of such forums I would have researched as to whether or not we could handle the load, consulted staff on rules for the forum and trained staff to help moderate it. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. That made it unfair for people on both sides, the users who are enjoying it and a headache for moderators that were unceremoniously dumped this forum. 

Doesn't mean those that like the Black Hole that we hate you and will rape your neighbor's cats. Would have been great if Black Hole was plagued with ads though


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Your points are irrelevant and useless, whats done is done, and what will be done will be done, some of us would like to focus on the future instead of dragging our ass and having a petty fight with the admins.



Don't worry, I can still keep up with you. Sides, we can always put him in a timeout if he still doesn't get the hint


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Your points are irrelevant and useless, whats done is done, and what will be done will be done, some of us would like to focus on the future instead of dragging our ass and having a petty fight with the admins.



That's what I am saying. I am trying to offer advice, being denied, like always and probably everyone else. And just because what I said here makes all my points "irrelevant" and "useless"


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh I have no problem with following up and giving how to guides.
> 
> The thing is Black Hole's current state is a performance problem and maintenance, though that's not to say it can't come back in a small way. We just don't have the staff for it, the server power as far I see to keep it.
> 
> ...


Have you ever considered that you need more staff to begin with? I only ever see about 1 mod, and 3 or 4 oblivious admins online with any regularity.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh I have no problem with following up and giving how to guides.
> 
> The thing is Black Hole's current state is a performance problem and maintenance, though that's not to say it can't come back in a small way. We just don't have the staff for it, the server power as far I see to keep it.
> 
> ...



So then let's cut to the chase here, as clearly the "1K threads" are the only interesting aspect of The Black Hole for myself and many others, what will be done with them? If they are gone, we need to move the banter and chatter to IRC or IM, if they're just being moved then IRC or IM is not needed.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Don't worry, I can still keep up with you. Sides, we can always put him in a timeout if he still doesn't get the hint



I get everything being said and it's translation is mods hate The Black Hole for notable reasons.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> I get everything being said and it's translation is mods hate The Black Hole for notable reasons.



Ok, we're putting you in moderation for a while. It's just become spam now. Since you can't really consider thinking what you type, we'll allow the admins/moderators to decide when your posts are acceptable to allow.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ok, we're putting you in moderation for a while. It's just become spam now. Since you can't really consider thinking what you type, we'll allow the admins/moderators to decide when your posts are acceptable to allow.



No I am not saying that. I am just offering my POV but you are getting backfire-ly about it, almost like you don't want to hear it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> So then let's cut to the chase here, as clearly the "1K threads" are the only interesting aspect of The Black Hole for myself and many others, what will be done with them? If they are gone, we need to move the banter and chatter to IRC or IM, if they're just being moved then IRC or IM is not needed.



I would propose IRC, or we can put such threads in an autoprune. It's just not decided how to deal with such topics as of yet. Before the 1k threads weren't allowed or rather had a limit to the amount of posts in such a thread as with any forum long multipage threads that large kill about any forum.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I would propose IRC, or we can put such threads in an autoprune. It's just not decided how to deal with such topics as of yet. Before the 1k threads weren't allowed or rather had a limit to the amount of posts in such a thread as with any forum long multipage threads that large kill about any forum.


Actually, considering I dissented against the very first one that appeared when I was a mod, they have in fact always been allowed, much to my dismay when I was doing so.

But we're still going in circles here, and while I get that the administration is not sure yet what they are going to do with the 1K threads, wether or not we need to move to IRC needs to be known.


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I would propose IRC, or we can put such threads in an autoprune.


Suggested earlier in the thread, and never followed up on.  It's not like we need the back data.  Most of the threads in this forum should be pruned, who really needs to backread R&R threads from 2005?


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

I can understand too. Just don't be so pushy about it.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Indeed, pruning needs to be done. Hell, even 4chan only has room for 10 pages before a thread simply fades from existence unless archived.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Have you ever considered that you need more staff to begin with? I only ever see about 1 mod, and 3 or 4 oblivious admins online with any regularity.



Uhhhhhhhhhhh yeah. XD 

That's one of the issues I've been discussing with staff which is why I balked at the suggestion to just throw in more moderators when we need to sort out our regular staff here. Just adding more bodies to the fray without set standards doesn't help. Just assuming they'll understand policy as soon as they are on doesn't work that way. We all remember our first days at work (at least I hope most of you had a job at some point XD) 

This is my personal opinion of course. Also just seeing them online isn't the thing, it's *what* they're doing that also plays into it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Suggested earlier in the thread, and never followed up on.  It's not like we need the back data.  Most of the threads in this forum should be pruned, who really needs to backread R&R threads from 2005?



A forewarning though, the pruning of threads also causes a labor intensive process too. So it could be possible that the whole forums get shut down for this procedure ...at least the big prune. Afterwards I have to see how much resources it takes for autopruning to be cron'd into the Black Hole.

Still it stands to reason that this forum should have never been created in the first place without a good discussion with the rest of staff. We're just applying bandaids now so even what may seem like a good suggestion at the time may end up being a hassle.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jun 17, 2008)

When is the thread removal scheduled for and will it be announced?


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

I suppose, instead you should just go ahead and make the guide to IRC so anyone that wants to use it can, and in the event that things go one way or the other, the 1K thread posters can migrate to IRC


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Just to let you guys know I am brainstorming ideas for the Black Hole but it will have to wait for a bit, so bear with me.


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Just to let you guys know I am brainstorming ideas for the Black Hole but it will have to wait for a bit, so bear with me.


Sounds like Ferrox all over again.  And the mod thing, you can't find people if you don't actively look.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Allow 1k type threads and allow of few of us who are there a lot to be able to delete/mod/lock them?

Just brainstorming.  I honestly don't know.


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Personally, I think the Black Hole should stay, but with severe limitations.  Allow only a set number of threads, and auto prune after a weekish or so.  We don't backread, and have no need for the extra data.  Have a dedicated mod for just such a board, and limit the forum games to only a few, as deleting the Black Hole will only result in their migration to other boards.  IRC chat is not a message board, and has none of the connotations of such a thing.  So much work has been done already, and with little insistence.  Image macros have all but vanished, and the RP has dropped to an all time low, in my opinion.  Hell, I even reported the RP threads, and the senseless post threads, but did anyone come to lock them?  No.  Further proof that it needs it's own mod.  Shit, I don't even care about the post count thing, although it does worry me that the mods would acquiesce to the request of one person over the reasoned arguments of many others.


----------



## ExTo (Jun 17, 2008)

First off, 'grats for removing post count increase in the Black Hole, that's a good move.

Second though... err, personally I go to the BH for everything *except* the 1Ks, because those seem to me like... well, IRC channels, whereas the things like the forum games and *especially* the "Rate the above's user avatar" thread can't be replicated anywhere else (and that latter thing actually sometimes can be a good source of criticism for self-drawn avatars, I have to say that thread holds a special place in my heart, haha).

Maybe there can be a way to find some middle-ground? "Move" the 1K to IRC, maybe using a dedicated server/provider (just maybe)? Still allow a given number of forum games, but lock those that die out for several days so that new ones can be opened? Disallow those truly pointless threads like that one which first post and title consist of "What's going on?", but still allow things like those that start with any subject, even those very irrelevant since, well, that's what the BH is all about?

Anyway, move the 1Ks to IRC, and you remove like half the strain the BH causes on the servers. Add some more guidelines but not too many, and then the BH is barely worse off than Off-Topic or The Den, and I doubt all that many BH addicts would really be THAT pissed by a compromise. That way, everyone wins.

EDIT: And Azure beats me to the finish line about like 75% of my points.


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=21389
Stupid shit, like this thread, I would lock and shuffle to the bottom of the stack.  I can see why the mods are a bit angry, but I think the above template between Exto and I would work pretty well.  Also, if a mod is in, plz lock that thread.  I am desperately weary of such things.

And these too, please, as report post button hasn't netted results.  Don't say we didn't try!
http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=20883&page=11
http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=21062
http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=21280


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=21389
> Stupid shit, like this thread, I would lock and shuffle to the bottom of the stack.  I can see why the mods are a bit angry, but I think the above template between Exto and I would work pretty well.  Also, if a mod is in, plz lock that thread.  I am desperately weary of such things.



Aye, self modding needed  SAGE :O


----------



## Wuffpup (Jun 17, 2008)

You not removeing the black hole are you? ARE YOU?!?!

Also: There should be a tally of people who like the black hole, and people who want it to go.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Sounds like Ferrox all over again.  And the mod thing, you can't find people if you don't actively look.



Not really, because it isn't my style to let things idle like that.

We are already in discussion about moderators, so like I said it's something that takes time to make sure they're the right candidates and are willing to be trained. I already have another couple of members I recommended and haven't seen the outcome of that.

I don't like sitting on the forums and constantly refreshing you know? That's why I said to wait a bit. There is this thing called life and it beckons at times. 

There would be severe limitations, and it would be a subform of another forum, like Off Topic or Rants and Raves.

The forum would have to also follow the general rules of the site with few exceptions like ability to allow topics to be more random and derail. It would still have to be PG 13 and there has to be some consciousness about the usage of images in posts. It can be a resource drain on any connection if you're bogged down with a ton of images. These are some of the suggestions, and along with what you guys already posted.

By the way thanks for being rather reasonable and actually offering suggestions instead of "BAWWW" about the forum going. There were other staff saying this was going to be some huge drama bomb, and quite honestly it's not really that bad.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Any possible way to make a warning box pop up if you are image linking on a board that doesn't allow it?  I accidentally do it sometimes...forgetting what board I'm on.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Fluffyfur said:


> You not removeing the black hole are you? ARE YOU?!?!
> 
> Also: There should be a tally of people who like the black hole, and people who want it to go.



Uhh no on that one.

I think someone said it best, that's like asking the tenants of an apartment that's living rent free if they still want to stay there.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Any possible way to make a warning box pop up if you are image linking on a board that doesn't allow it?  I accidentally do it sometimes...forgetting what board I'm on.



I think that would just piss people off XD and might cause other script errors. However, I'll look into seeing what kinds of other solutions VB provides.

You'll just have to pay attention to the forum you're in at this time, sorry.


----------



## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

That's because when not being silly/cheeky for the fun of it, I've noticed a lot of 1K dwellers are rather chilled out people. There are....exceptions, unfortunately.

Ideas look good so far to me, I can't think of any way to make them better, especially as tired as I am, though.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> I think that would just piss people off XD and might cause other script errors. However, I'll look into seeing what kinds of other solutions VB provides.
> 
> You'll just have to pay attention to the forum you're in at this time, sorry.



That's fine.  I noticed I put one in rants and raves of a mongoose.  Then went back and was like, oh hey this is rants and raves.

I go back through subscribed threads a lot.


----------



## FrisbeeRolf (Jun 17, 2008)

I haven't been here very long at all, but I like the black hole.  The board reminds me of a little place I used to call power on.  It was a pretty well moderated board where people could just, talk.  Strict rules and hefty bans, but I made a lot of good friends while that board was up.   I kind of think the new rule of no post count on the board is a little stupid, but it does reduce threads like "COUNT TO A MILLION" and stuff.  

I guess there wouldn't be as big of a need for the board if this place had a decent IRC channel.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

FrisbeeRolf said:


> I haven't been here very long at all, but I like the black hole.  The board reminds me of a little place I used to call power on.  It was a pretty well moderated board where people could just, talk.  Strict rules and hefty bans, but I made a lot of good friends while that board was up.   I kind of think the new rule of no post count on the board is a little stupid, but it does reduce threads like "COUNT TO A MILLION" and stuff.
> 
> I guess there wouldn't be as big of a need for the board if this place had a decent IRC channel.



Well there is #furaffinity on furnet, but I did notice the qualifying word of "decent" in describing an IRC channel 

Maybe a #fa-lounge for those who would like another channel?


----------



## FrisbeeRolf (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well there is #furaffinity on furnet, but I did notice the qualifying word of "decent" in describing an IRC channel
> 
> Maybe a #fa-lounge for those who would like another channel?


I don't care what the name is, just so long as it gets moderated properly.  Chat's about male genital mutilation and flame wars (_*that the MODS ARE ACTUALLY A PART OF*_) get a little annoying.


----------



## Grimfang (Jun 17, 2008)

Bah.. I guess I'm Mr Unpopular, but I wouldn't miss the Black Hole too terribly.

I can't read this whole thread with the connection I have here, so I haven't seen everything said. The Black Hole has sucked a lot of life out of the rest of the forum though (and bandwidth). Watch what happens to the server's load towards the end of each 1k thread, heh.

I wouldn't be upset if it did go. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Is it possible to make a board that has only one possible thread that resets at 1k?


----------



## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Not really, because it isn't my style to let things idle like that.
> 
> We are already in discussion about moderators, so like I said it's something that takes time to make sure they're the right candidates and are willing to be trained. I already have another couple of members I recommended and haven't seen the outcome of that.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, on the life thing, I may be on every day, but some folks are on all day!! And I believe that it's in the interest of the forums to offer useful, topical suggestions, instead of snarky bullshit like you see so often with topics like this.  While I enjoy the 1K threads, and some of the games, I think that most of the other stuff in the Hole isn't really helpful, or interesting.  I think a subforum would be rather appropriate, perhaps Off Topic, as I shiver to think we could be grouped in the Rants and Raves forum.  It's been said before, but I think that forum should dissappear like a Chinese anti government statement dissapperars, quickly.  But then again, where would I get all my real laughs?  I wouldn't doubt that it is the source of 90% of bans, probations, and infractions on this forum.  Or perhaps it could be subscriber only, as discussed by others.  I figure while were on the subject of site composition, why not breach the topic?


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

This is indeed true, a majority of the reports and infractions had to do with the Black Hole. I'd like to have some solutions that we can remember before bringing back before I completely pull the plug. (Meaning I'm going to give the end of the week to talk with staff before it's final)

Like I said it's very much not my style to do something half assed like this. If we're going to pull the plug a contingency plan is in place and ready to go. It would be unfair to both parties otherwise.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Is it possible to make a board that has only one possible thread that resets at 1k?



Haha, thought about that.

By the way guys, furnet's channel registration services are f'd meaning I can't even register a new channel for you guys and show you how to use it.

However, I do know of other irc networks like synirc (gotta love the name) if you're interested. This wouldn't be an officially sponsored channel of FA I suppose but it would give you guys a place to chill and relax.

Firefox has a plugin called chatzilla for IRC things so if you guys are interested in trying to start a channel and want help on running it, I'll be happy to help you out.


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## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Haha, thought about that.
> 
> By the way guys, furnet's channel registration services are f'd meaning I can't even register a new channel for you guys and show you how to use it.
> 
> ...



That could work.  If one gets set up I'd make a thread for it.  I think mostly(and obviously) we'd like a 1k thread, mugshots thread since the profiles got downgraded, and a random picture thread to keep those from getting over spammed in the 1ks.

By the way, I want to thank you for actually discussing this.  You could just as easily do it with no discussion.


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## Aurali (Jun 17, 2008)

*nods* or you could set up a JAva/flash system to auto connect to the irc channel.

EDIT: Read your thing wrong.. sorry Arshes. Yeah. IRC has some issues to it. *nods* and of course stuff like that always happens when your solving problems


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## Erro (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well there is #furaffinity on furnet, but I did notice the qualifying word of "decent" in describing an IRC channel
> 
> Maybe a #fa-lounge for those who would like another channel?


Looks like someone beat me to the punch on this topic. I have heard a lot of people going "IRC IRC IRC" but um... I chill in the #furaffinity IRC room already, and I can only imagine, with the number of users in that room, what kind of catastrophy it would be if the 1k thread alone moved into that room.

I do have to comment though, it will be a rough change to just up and push us black hole dwellers into IRC. I am familiar with it, to a degree, and won't have much issue with it since I'm already there, but a lot of other Forum goers don't use IRC, and would have a lot of trouble adapting to the room. On top of that, it does really take out a lot of the aspects that we favor the forum threads for, like the posting wait time, image linking, and the like that you just can't do in IRC chat.

So, I suppose in closing with now I will offer this suggestion. An alternative does not necessarily have to be a replacement. Perhaps create an IRC channel for general chat, and leave the Black Hole (post count restored, for the sake of getting rid of the Bawwing) as is for the time, and see if having a chat room brings down the server strain and mod issues.

As a sidenote, if IRC is to be implemented, I suggest putting some effort into making it easier for non-IRC familiar users to handle. I started using IRC with an in browser client on #Fchan, and it was relatively issue-free in comparison to the #furaffinity current setup. Perhaps it would be a good model.


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## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> This is indeed true, a majority of the reports and infractions had to do with the Black Hole. I'd like to have some solutions that we can remember before bringing back before I completely pull the plug. (Meaning I'm going to give the end of the week to talk with staff before it's final)
> 
> Like I said it's very much not my style to do something half assed like this. If we're going to pull the plug a contingency plan is in place and ready to go. It would be unfair to both parties otherwise.


I meant rants and raves, not the Black Hole.  And to agree with Erro, IRC chat is not a 1K thread.  I'd be happy if the Black Hole was only that thread, personally, as it's the only one there of interest.


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## Erro (Jun 17, 2008)

Added point: I just finished backreading completely, I was skimming for details before I posted my piece. Those of you that are fighting to keep the Black Hole alive. You were told by the administration, and you were told by your peers in 1k (I said it myself, I can quote it if you like) Keep a civil tongue in your mouth while discussing the issue. Some of you seem to grasp this concept, which is unfortunate, because in your blind, stupid and ignorant ranting you only have managed to upset the admins and cause more issues for us on the matter of the Black Hole topic. If all that you can do is gripe and complain, and subsequently irritate both the moderation and those of us that are holding a level headed conversation on the matter, then please do us all a favor, close your mouth, and take your bitching elsewhere. I had to wade through pages of whining and bickering to pick out the valid points and valuable pieces of information, and in doing so I nearly lost interest in even working to save the section of the forum we all use out of sheer spite for the idiocy that apparently resides there. If you have a valid point, or a decent suggestion, we all have our ears open, but if your only coming to cause trouble, turn around and stay off the site discussion. There is enough stress on the topic as is.
Thank you.


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## DarkTalbain64 (Jun 17, 2008)

So does that mean there is a no go for the guide on IRC Arshes?


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## Erro (Jun 17, 2008)

DarkTalbain64 said:


> So does that mean there is a no go for the guide on IRC Arshes?


IRC rules are posted upon login to IRC chat

Edit: Alright apparently I lied, they are posted in the other rooms I am in. I am fairly certain though that the IRC chat rules are posted somewhere on Furafffinity.


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## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Of course IRC doesn't allow for joking around, if I remember correctly Dragoneer tested this by sending himself a PM saying "furfag" and got banned from the server for it.


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## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Of course IRC doesn't allow for joking around, if I remember correctly Dragoneer tested this by sending himself a PM saying "furfag" and got banned from the server for it.


Then whats the point?  It's hardly an alternative then.


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## Sulroth (Jun 17, 2008)

Wait for official word to see whats up. We might just use a big chat room that uses an IM program. Easier to figure out, and even if there is a limit it just means we can pick and choose who's in the room.

It won't have the benefits of the 1K thread, but the way it looks IRC isn't viable, and it looks like the threads are going out of left field and over the fence.


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## Erro (Jun 17, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> Of course IRC doesn't allow for joking around, if I remember correctly Dragoneer tested this by sending himself a PM saying "furfag" and got banned from the server for it.





AzurePhoenix said:


> Then whats the point?  It's hardly an alternative then.


I wasn't aware of such rules in place, but I also have not tested them. I would think, if requested, a secondary IRC channel could be set up without said restrictions.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

DarkTalbain64 said:


> So does that mean there is a no go for the guide on IRC Arshes?



Hey guys, it's only been a few hours since this discussion, and there is this thing called life. I got to see the yellow sun today when I walked home 

Meaning that, give me some time, I will say that your new IRC will NOT be on furnet. It will be on Synirc because it's a much better server.

For amusement would you like the place to be called #FA-Hole or is that too crass?

The irc server is irc.synirc.org room name is #FA-Hole for now unless you'd like to create a better room name?

Whoops sorry dropped the S on the channel name just because it sounds better.


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## Takun (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Hey guys, it's only been a few hours since this discussion, and there is this thing called life. I got to see the yellow sun today when I walked home
> 
> Meaning that, give me some time, I will say that your new IRC will NOT be on furnet. It will be on Synirc because it's a much better server.
> 
> ...



I call it a Fry Hole.

[Futurama]


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## Greyscale (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Hey guys, it's only been a few hours since this discussion, and there is this thing called life. I got to see the yellow sun today when I walked home
> 
> Meaning that, give me some time, I will say that your new IRC will NOT be on furnet. It will be on Synirc because it's a much better server.
> 
> ...



*facepalm*

That name... *sigh* >.<


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## Erro (Jun 17, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Hey guys, it's only been a few hours since this discussion, and there is this thing called life. I got to see the yellow sun today when I walked home
> 
> Meaning that, give me some time, I will say that your new IRC will NOT be on furnet. It will be on Synirc because it's a much better server.
> 
> ...


*chuckles* nice name ^_^ I laughed.
Likely the name could be changed to something less ...brash after further discussion, but its a good start. Thank you.


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## Azure (Jun 17, 2008)

How do I connect?  I only ever go to Pawpet.org's channel, and that is only on Sunday!  I have Chatzilla, so plz halp meh.  Also, good name!


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 17, 2008)

I need to look at Chatzilla's plugin, but there should be a join option. I know in Opera you Go to "Chat" type in the IRC server, then "Join" the channel you put in.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/chatzilla/faq/

http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/chatzilla/faq/#start-cz

That has a good faq on using Chatzilla.

Firefox 3 is out today so it's worth the download and update to the plugin.

Opera Beta is rather nice too for chat.


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/chatzilla/faq/
> 
> http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/chatzilla/faq/#start-cz
> 
> ...


Hmmm, cool, I got connected, but there are no rooms...


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## Erro (Jun 18, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Hmmm, cool, I got connected, but there are no rooms...


type '/join #fa-hole'


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## Sulroth (Jun 18, 2008)

Can someone give detailed instructions on how to join? I have ChatZilla, but I have no idea how to use it.

Edit: Nvm.


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## DarkTalbain64 (Jun 18, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Hey guys, it's only been a few hours since this discussion, and there is this thing called life. I got to see the yellow sun today when I walked home
> 
> Meaning that, give me some time, I will say that your new IRC will NOT be on furnet. It will be on Synirc because it's a much better server.
> 
> ...



Ah sorry i just jumped into this discussion, i didn't see the dates or times, my apologies.

FA hole sounds amusing but it will be fine.


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## BlackAzazel (Jun 18, 2008)

Erro said:


> type '/join #fa-hole'




it didnt work...


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## Aurali (Jun 18, 2008)

are you running the software right then? make sure your on the right server. then try again hun. *has registered her nickname, hope no one cares*


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 18, 2008)

Eli said:


> are you running the software right then? make sure your on the right server. then try again hun. *has registered her nickname, hope no one cares*



Join us.  It's a little better than the 1k's.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

I'll be making several writeups on how to use IRC on various clients.

For those that use firefox, get the chatzilla plugin then go to Tools - Chatzilla to create the window.

Opera should have chat already built into it.

Pidgin, Trillian and Miranda are multi IM handling clients that also have IRC in them.

mIRC is one of the most used Windows IRC clients
We may link a web chat, but they tend to be the most buggy and time out a lot so I do suggest just using the above for now and I'll post more on them later.


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Eli said:


> are you running the software right then? make sure your on the right server. then try again hun. *has registered her nickname, hope no one cares*


Plz explain how you register your nickname?  Anyone?  Apparently it's important.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Plz explain how you register your nickname?  Anyone?  Apparently it's important.



In IRC commands that you send to the server begin with a backslash /

To register your nickname you will /ns help or /msg nickserv help

The server will reply with a list of commands

You then /ns register *password* email or /msg nickserv password email

It will send a link to your email, 

Copy and paste it to the msg window (don't leave any spaces between the backslashes!)

When you log in the next time you get on the chat you simply /ns identify password or /msg nickserv password

Please don't use "password" as your password or you will be pwnd.


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## Takun (Jun 18, 2008)

The fact that math and science is being discussed in IRC makes me laugh.  Black Hole was all the intelligent people lol...


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> In IRC commands that you send to the server begin with a backslash /
> 
> To register your nickname you will /ns help or /msg nickserv help
> 
> ...


Attempting now...


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> The fact that math and science is being discussed in IRC makes me laugh.  Black Hole was all the intelligent people lol...



It's good you guys are having fun though, like I said before if you got questions please feel free to ask

http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/new2irc.html is an old site but has a good little short list of IRC commands.

Oh I forgot to mention one thing, a lot of servers have limits on the number of times you can connect at once. They may think you're trying to run a botnet or flood and spam so you can get banned for doing it.

I didn't think about it until poor Erro got hit with it. I think these may be temp bans and I can talk with an IRCop about removing it if it isn't

Read the motd of the server you connect to, it's usually there when you connect, but if you /motd it also displays the Message of the Day and rules for the servers.


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## Takun (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok.  I got mine registered.


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## Erro (Jun 18, 2008)

Ha... yeah, ouchies. Apparently opening too many server connections is a big no no x.x
While I'm waiting to be cleared, I will be setting up a more organized page in the Black Hole stickies with all of this information laid out so people can access it easily and to avoid all the confusion.
In the meantime, I will be on furnet in the #furaffinity and #concession rooms. Feel free to stop in


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Ok.  I got mine registered.


Mine didn't work so well.


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## Erro (Jun 18, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Mine didn't work so well.


Did you get the confirmation email?


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Erro said:


> Did you get the confirmation email?


No, I got a bunch of nothing when I typed them into the field.  /msg did nothing, and /ns said I have no text to post...I AM CONFUSED, HELP ME!!


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## Takun (Jun 18, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> No, I got a bunch of nothing when I typed them into the field.  /msg did nothing, and /ns said I have no text to post...I AM CONFUSED, HELP ME!!



Do the /ns help command in the irc.synirc.org tab?  Has to be done for that server.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> No, I got a bunch of nothing when I typed them into the field.  /msg did nothing, and /ns said I have no text to post...I AM CONFUSED, HELP ME!!



There should be more than one tab in chatzilla. You'll have the #FA-Hole tab and the tab for the server
look at the Server tab.


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Cool, we have a winner, thanks guys.


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## yak (Jun 18, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Oh I don't mind.  Do what you guys have to for the site.  I was just pointing out the humor in a spam board...getting spammed.
> 
> btw, I so would mod the black hole if that's all I had to mod.  Maybe even just 1k :O



Join the chatroom, talk to us, get an a halfop 'moderator' status there.


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## Erro (Jun 18, 2008)

yak said:


> Join the chatroom, talk to us, get an a halfop 'moderator' status there.


I certainly would not mind doing that as well, since I am on all the time


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## Sulroth (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm on my computer most of the day too, but I don't know if you guys want me as a mod =x


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah let's let things go around for a week or so to see how the channel goes. I have no problem giving mod status to folks since I was intending to turn the channel ownership over to you since it wasn't supposed to be a "Sponsored by FA" kind of channel.


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## Ty Vulpine (Jun 18, 2008)

The chatroom is...okay...


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## Azure (Jun 18, 2008)

Sulroth said:


> I'm on my computer most of the day too, but I don't know if you guys want me as a mod =x


Weren't you already a mod Rilvor, and then you quit?  I'd be willing to try, as I am on with some regularity, but I'm not sure I know enough about the system in general.  Such things can be learned however.


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## Ty Vulpine (Jun 18, 2008)

I've am/have been a Global Mod on two sites (sadly, the Admin of one closed his site for personal reasons), so know how hard it can be at times.


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## Armaetus (Jun 18, 2008)

Hmmm, something is actually going to be done with that dump of a subforum? Good riddance.

And quality, not quantity of posts is what counts. Not some stupid counting or retarded 1k thread.


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## Erro (Jun 18, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Hmmm, something is actually going to be done with that dump of a subforum? Good riddance.
> 
> And quality, not quantity of posts is what counts. Not some stupid counting or retarded 1k thread.


You know, I have a really novel idea. Why don't you go back to whatever section of the forum that _you_ talk on, and leave the site discussion to actual relevant discussion about what is being done. Things are being changed for reasons, but you have provided none of them, all you have offered is bitching and griping about things that you personally dislike. Your only coming in with comments like that to stir people up, so go on back to your hole and leave people who are working to make things better in peace. Kthnx


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## Takun (Jun 18, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Hmmm, something is actually going to be done with that dump of a subforum? Good riddance.
> 
> And quality, not quantity of posts is what counts. Not some stupid counting or retarded 1k thread.



Funny, cause most of the Holegans are extremely well versed, intelligent, and openminded.  Sad you aren't.  And no, none of us care about post counts.

Obligatory "and nothing of value was lost."


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## TheGreatCrusader (Jun 18, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Hmmm, something is actually going to be done with that dump of a subforum? Good riddance.
> 
> And quality, not quantity of posts is what counts. Not some stupid counting or retarded 1k thread.


That means a lot to me considering there is no post count in there, anymore.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 18, 2008)

mrchris said:


> Hmmm, something is actually going to be done with that dump of a subforum? Good riddance.
> 
> And quality, not quantity of posts is what counts. Not some stupid counting or retarded 1k thread.



mchris. Before you criticize the quality of posts why don't you lead by example for a change?


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jun 18, 2008)

At least, we now have the IRC chat room.  Thanks, Arshes Nei.


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## Azure (Jun 19, 2008)

EDITED FOR SANITY!!


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## NerdyMunk (Jun 19, 2008)

Would it be safe to say it is the user's fault that all the 1k turn into IRC-like chat zones?


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## Gubbinz schiwifty-five (Jun 20, 2008)

Alas people and furry ones, we have reached the end of an era, let us bow our heads and remember the day the Black Hole began to close.

There shall now be a moment of reflection of the good ol days...















Party pooper.


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## Eevee (Jun 21, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> In IRC commands that you send to the server begin with a backslash /


this is a *slash*.



Arshes Nei said:


> For those that use firefox, get the chatzilla plugin then go to Tools - Chatzilla to create the window.


this makes about as much sense as installing an office suite plugin.  if you want to use chatzilla, use the xulrunner version: http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/



Arshes Nei said:


> Pidgin, Trillian and Miranda are multi IM handling clients that also have IRC in them.


except they are, again, completely unrelated programs, so they tend to suck ass at IRC.



Arshes Nei said:


> mIRC is one of the most used Windows IRC clients


it is also convoluted and confusing for new users.  try x-chat.


----------



## Azure (Jun 22, 2008)

^Ignore this post.


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## ExTo (Jun 22, 2008)

Eevee said:


> [mIRC] is also convoluted and confusing for new users.



It ain't so bad actually. So long as they get a kickstart by being told how to join a channel and use the very helpful /help commands, people can usually find their way around. Anyway, your average newbie won't need to do much outside registering their nickname and maybe using the provided "Perform on connect" scripts.


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## Eevee (Jun 23, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> ^Ignore this post.


^ ignore this user



ExTo said:


> It ain't so bad actually. So long as they get a kickstart by being told how to join a channel and use the very helpful /help commands, people can usually find their way around. Anyway, your average newbie won't need to do much outside registering their nickname and maybe using the provided "Perform on connect" scripts.


maybe "newish-intermediate" users would be more accurate.  people who don't know the IRC protocol or anything ridiculous but would still like to fiddle a bit.  the mIRC options dialog is not exactly the friendliest sight in the world.  even adding a network was still a little hairy last time I used it.

granted e.g. xchat still gets it wrong with completely nonintuitive UI for changing a network name or server url.  someday someone will manage to write an IRC client and not completely cock it up.


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## Aurali (Jun 23, 2008)

Eevee said:


> ^ ignore this user


^ignore this drama



> granted e.g. xchat still gets it wrong with completely nonintuitive UI for changing a network name or server url.  someday someone will manage to write an IRC client and not completely cock it up.


You just want us to use that as a prerequisite to Get us all on linux.. 
Don't lie.. we got you trapped now >3


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2008)

Why does there need to be a much ado about nothing?


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## NerdyMunk (Jun 24, 2008)

Arshes Nei said:


> Why does there need to be a much ado about nothing?



What do you mean? 1k threads?


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2008)

brownsquirrel said:


> What do you mean? 1k threads?



No. Go Away. I was referring to the argument about nothing from the posts about IRC.


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## Azure (Jun 24, 2008)

Cuz Eevee is a linux nerd, thats why?  Stupid penguins.


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## Erro (Jun 24, 2008)

</epic facepalm> do you guys seriously have nothing better do to than clog up site discussion with stupidity?


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## TheGreatCrusader (Jun 24, 2008)

Erro said:


> </epic facepalm> do you guys seriously have nothing better do to than clog up site discussion with stupidity?


Not really. This thread is mostly forced posts that were made in tantrums of rage and boredom.


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## Azure (Jun 24, 2008)

In b4 Eli calls me a lemur.


----------



## TheGreatCrusader (Jun 24, 2008)

AzurePhoenix said:


> In b4 Eli calls me a lemur.


Fucking lemur. I auta kill the lot of you, I would.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2008)

Closing...


----------

