# Post "Natty" tweaks and the classic interface



## ToeClaws (May 10, 2011)

If any of you have tried or upgraded to the latest Ubuntu, you'll notice your presented with one of the worst GUI shells in the history of computing (at least that's my personal thoughts about it).  It's very unfriendly, nonsensical, and awkward to use with more than one application open at a time - all of which have made a lot of users uncomfortable with the latest release.  BUT, you can switch it back to the Gnome shell rather easily.  This article explains how:

http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutori...o-gnome2-classic-in-ubuntu-1104-natty-narwhal

Another good article mentions some things you can do after installing Natty to get it up to a more usable state.  One note I should mention though is that Ubuntu Tweak as of the time of writing this does not install on Natty yet:

http://www.linuxcompatible.org/news...ter_installing_ubuntu_1104_natty_narwhal.html

Of course, this circus act is a good example of why I use Mint instead of Ubuntu.


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## ArielMT (May 10, 2011)

It's like Canonical didn't learn the main reason why people don't want to upgrade Windows: People don't care if it's better or worse, people care that it's different and something that must be learned anew.


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## Runefox (May 10, 2011)

I've installed Natty, but haven't done much with it since setting it up and symlinking my Windows profile folders over (Firefox history, add-ons, bookmarks, settings, etc sync'ed between Windows and Linux? Yes, please). I've tried getting games to work, but it appears that both the fglrx and radeon drivers dislike Steam (along with radeon not having support for a bunch of things). The desktop, regardless of the driver in use, is slow and choppy, and overall it's not a pleasant experience so far. I'll probably get back into it at some point, but I'm also trying to get OS X86 running as well, so between that and the need to slack off with video games, I'm kind of booked up.

On that note, I think it's more that Canonical was fed up with Gnome and figured they could get away with merging their netbook edition with the desktop edition and call it a day.

EDIT: Still get jumpy window movement. Everything else is smooth though, so I'm kind of baffled.

EDIT2: Metacity is silky smooth. Hmm.

EDIT3: radeon driver is still really buggy, graphical glitches are common. Also, why doesn't Canonical just use Docky for their launcher? It's so much nicer and more flexible.


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## ToeClaws (May 10, 2011)

Yeah - you both have good points.  I think it's not so much that people don't like learning something new as they don't like having to be forced to use something that's far worse than what they had (as well as being more complicated).  Canonical seems to be ditching a lot of things in favour of their own home-grown stuff, and while they might think that all fine and good for their objectives, it's hurting their product.

Rune - I think your issues are just related to the fact that it's not X as the GUI back-end, but Wayland.  The Wayland drivers are all early stage betas and most are unstable. Also agreed that Docky (or ANY other shell/launcher) is more flexible than Unity.  The reason they went with Unity though was that it's a home-grown project, and it allows them to merge the Netbook and main Ubuntu versions (so basically laziness and control were their motivation).

My suggestion to most folks is to just wait until Mint 11 comes out if you want the more modern "Natty" repositories and programs.  The folks behind Mint have chosen *not* to use Wayland or Unity, and will stick with X and Gnome 2.X for stability.


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## Runefox (May 10, 2011)

Well, the thing that sticks out the most is that Canonical has always been about ease of use with Ubuntu, yet here we are with something more complicated than what we had before. I think it stems mainly from their need for A) tighter control over the default face of their product, for better or worse, and B) being on the relative bleeding edge of progress in the Linux arena compared to the competition. I liken Unity to a modified OS X layout, and I think that also describes the general feel behind Ubuntu - In order to use Ubuntu to its fullest as intended by Canonical, you need to use the software they specifically support - For example, the only chat software that integrates into the Ubuntu Me menu is Empathy, in spite of Pidgin holding that position previously. Using Pidgin or something else? No dice. Same with the Mail section, wherein you're forced to use Evolution or go without mail notifications unless you've set up something else. Of course, unlike OS X, you're free to set up something else if you like.

EDIT: TC - Well, actually, Wayland isn't installed. I just tried installing it for the sake of trying it out, but it actually won't install. Says I have a dependency issue with libcairo2-dev, but when I turned around and installed that on its own, I still get the error.


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## ToeClaws (May 11, 2011)

Agreed on those points Rune - I don't like their approach of putting a gold star on only specific apps (particularly when the apps they choose aren't really the best choices).  I think this might also be a reason why the Mint team decided to create the Debian version of Mint; perhaps they see a point where they'll break off from using Ubuntu as a source 'cause of the weird control issues.  At least for now, Ubuntu users can at least get around the issues.


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## keretceres (May 11, 2011)

There is a Debian version of Mint O_O *feels like I have been hiding under a rock*


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## ArielMT (May 11, 2011)

keretceres said:


> There is a Debian version of Mint O_O *feels like I have been hiding under a rock*


 
I thought Mint, like Ubuntu once upon a time, used Debian as the base.


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## ToeClaws (May 11, 2011)

keretceres said:


> There is a Debian version of Mint O_O *feels like I have been hiding under a rock*



Aye sir - they decided to split their bases into two groups - Ubuntu based, and a branch based on the latest Debian releases (testing branch):

http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

The Debian edition is a little more rough around the edges, but since it's not tied to the bi-annual release schedule of Ubuntu (more of a rolling upgrade), there's less hassle with major changes to the backend, and it's a bit more cutting-edge in terms of the kernel and core apps.  



ArielMT said:


> I thought Mint, like Ubuntu once upon a time, used Debian as the base.


 
Aye - also true, Debian is the base for Ubuntu, but Ubuntu is the base for *lots* of other distributions.  Mint's Debian version uses Debian directly, and bases itself off of the testing branch (currently known as "Squeeze").  That removes Ubuntu completely from the equation.  

There are pros and cons to using the Debian version.  For the average or novice user, the ones based on Ubuntu are still a bit more polished and usable, plus you have the advantage of being able to easily use the many PPA repositories to add software.  The Debian versions are faster and more efficient, but sometimes require a bit more tweaking and setup.  As they based on the testing branches of Debian, sometimes you might get some twitchy updates, but they are generally fixed quickly.  Mint's only had the Debian one for... hmm... I don't think it's even been a year yet, but all things considered, it's pretty slick.  Given Mint's current rise in popularity, it may well over-take Ubuntu and I can see them eventually dumping the Ubuntu-based versions in favour of their own.


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## Sai_Wolf (May 18, 2011)

Runefox said:


> EDIT3: radeon driver is still really buggy, graphical glitches are common. Also, why doesn't Canonical just use Docky for their launcher? It's so much nicer and more flexible.



Docky is unstable as fuck in most scenarios I've used it on (Ubuntu, Fedora, Fuduntu, to name a few.) At least AWN provides a modicum more of stability.

I've all but given up hope on the radeon and nouveau drivers. 

Let's also not forget the shitstorm when Shuttleworth dictated that the window buttons will be moved from the right to the left.


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## Runefox (May 18, 2011)

AWN is OK, but I actually don't find the latest version of Docky to be unstable; In fact, much the opposite. I actually recall AWN having some stability issues last time I used it, which disapointed me since I actually really liked it at the time.


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## Sai_Wolf (May 18, 2011)

Runefox said:


> AWN is OK, but I actually don't find the latest version of Docky to be unstable; In fact, much the opposite. I actually recall AWN having some stability issues last time I used it, which disapointed me since I actually really liked it at the time.


 
This was my desktop when I used Docky. Looked great, but kept crashing and restarting on me.


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