# How to Accept Discreet Payments for Mature Art?



## angelicshadow (Feb 1, 2012)

So I've noticed that FA is a wonderfully open place as far as allowing various levels of mature art.  I'd love to share some of my mature art as well and have been wanting to build a more discreet pseudonym for such things (I need to do this for business reasons, mainly.  It wouldn't quite fit in with the art I market to the general public).

I have a question for those of you who take mature art commissions, specifically!  How do you discreetly accept payments if you don't want your real name displayed anywhere to your customers?  I would like to do this with Paypal since it's the easiest, but there is a limit to how many accounts you can have open (a biz and a personal, both of which I have in use currently with my present personal and business name).  How do you get around this? Do you know of any other payment options or ways to set up Paypal to be discreet?  I'd appreciate any feedback you might be able to give!


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## Egypt Urnash (Feb 1, 2012)

Hmm, I never had any problems taking Paypal as my adult alias. But then again I don't actually care if my commissioners know who I "really" am - I simply make it clear that yes, this is my adult alias, please don't link it with my normal working name anywhere Google can see it. I haven't had any problems so far.


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## Volkodav (Feb 1, 2012)

uhhhh
accepet the commission through FA notes
have them put something SFW like "commission from [username] in the description

its not hard


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## angelicshadow (Feb 1, 2012)

Egypt Urnash said:


> Hmm, I never had any problems taking Paypal as my adult alias. But then again I don't actually care if my commissioners know who I "really" am - I simply make it clear that yes, this is my adult alias, please don't link it with my normal working name anywhere Google can see it. I haven't had any problems so far.


Egypt, I notice that when you put in someone's Paypal email to send payment, it shows the real name of the person who owns the email/account you're putting in. That's what I'm trying to avoid.  I'm not sure I want to rely on people's ability to NOT mention things abroad, but I may just have to if I want to use Paypal.

*Clayton *I have no problem accepting the actual commission, it's accepting an anonymous form of payment that does not reveal my real name that's the problem.

I'm wondering, myself, if Paypal has any competition I can try instead.  Will have to research!


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 1, 2012)

I said this before, but you're doing a business. If you don't want to reveal your real name - don't do commissions.
You're asking strangers to give you money without knowing who you are. Given this is MONEY, and not play-doh people have a right to know who is getting their money.


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## angelicshadow (Feb 1, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I said this before, but you're doing a business. If you don't want to reveal your real name - don't do commissions.
> You're asking strangers to give you money without knowing who you are. Given this is MONEY, and not play-doh people have a right to know who is getting their money.



So, does this mean people who write under pen names don't deserve payment for the works they write? It's the same sort of thing. People write as ghost writers or under pen names to protect their reputation and it's perfectly acceptable in standard business practices.  Or in my case, because mature commission won't fit in with the art I market to a younger audience.  Those are two batches of ice cream flavors you just *don't* mix.  It's not about deceiving people, it's about how to manage a pseudonym that would have the same business practices, as far as payment and management, as my current business.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 1, 2012)

They write under pen names but if they're using a Paypal account, they use REAL NAMES for business transactions. People who purchase their work will also get a real name if they're writing a check to pay them. I mean how the hell do you think they get paid if they can't use a LEGAL name to cash it? They're using LEGAL names. They just don't publish the name to the public. So unless you're running an LLC or a business where you can cash checks under the business name and are paying taxes to handle that business. It's under your real name.

You want to do this as a business, people need a real name because in case of fraud how else do people contact you. It's very simple. Stop whining about it and realize this is a business. If you can't handle it, go flip burgers.

I know that's harsh, but really. You're over thinking this.


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## ArielMT (Feb 1, 2012)

angelicshadow said:


> So, does this mean people who write under pen names don't deserve payment for the works they write? It's the same sort of thing. People write as ghost writers or under pen names to protect their reputation and it's perfectly acceptable in standard business practices.  Or in my case, because mature commission won't fit in with the art I market to a younger audience.  Those are two batches of ice cream flavors you just *don't* mix.  It's not about deceiving people, it's about how to manage a pseudonym that would have the same business practices, as far as payment and management, as my current business.



If you're taking money for a product or service, then you're in business, and you should structure your work as such.  If you want to be in two businesses at the same time but want to keep them separate, then you should structure them and register them as two separate businesses with the same owner, not as a single business selling two incompatible things.

What you're asking how to do would be like Marvel (or now Disney) asking how to sell "Kick-Ass" discreetly enough to avoid tainting its more child-oriented brands.  (Answer: separate company, Icon in this example.)  It's not a concept far different from working two jobs at, say, a bookstore and a burger joint: You don't sell burgers at your bookstore job, and you don't sell books at your burger job.


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## angelicshadow (Feb 1, 2012)

*Arshes Nei*, I understand how to run a business. I run one already. What I'm asking here is advice on the methods of running a separate more discreet business and accepting payment this way.  If the solution is to use your real name, obviously this will not work as a solution for me.  I should think that if someone runs into fraud with Paypal, they can still report the account and get their money back, regardless of the name on the account. It's one of the reasons I'd like to stick with Paypal if possible. People trust it and it's handy for transaction safety on both sides.

*ArielMT*, I've been thinking about this option as well.  Establishing a legal psuedonym might be the best way to go about doing what I want to do.  I've already planned to establish a separate studio/brand for mature work. I'm wondering if anyone has advice on that?  Has anyone done it before as an artist?  I've heard about it for writers, but haven't heard as many tales of it being done in the art community (probably for reasons of discretion, again).  My biggest stumbling block has been that I have already reached my quota of Paypal accounts for biz and personal.  I'll have to see what their rules are for pen names, if they'll allow a 2nd biz account in such cases.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 1, 2012)

You also have to realize, that person sending you money ALSO has to give their real name as well? 

Most people don't have the know how to register for companies and LLCs much less the patience in filing for the taxes and money involved. They are actually rather inexpensive LLCs in consideration to other business types, but most people doing 20 dollar commissions won't do it. 

In addition with the Disney comparison, it's not hard to find out who runs all those companies and their relation, Touchstone, Buena Vista, ABC, Marvel, all Disney. 



angelicshadow said:


> *Arshes Nei*,* I understand how to run a business. I run one already.*
> 
> *ArielMT** Establishing a legal psuedonym might be the best way to go about doing what I want to do.  I've already planned to establish a separate studio/brand for mature work*.



These two quotes conflict with the other.

If you know how to run a business, you should be able to set one up.


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## angelicshadow (Feb 1, 2012)

*Arshes Nei*, the problem is not how to make a website,  a gallery, NOR how to run a business, it's *how to establish a psuedonym*, at this point.  Personally, I'd rather have a bread crumb trail than my name plastered over something that could cause parents to find a reason to be upset with me because they need mind bleach for their children.  If a customer is coming to me, I would gather they'll have no need to dig up a pseudonym unless they have a problem, which I would strive to endeavor that they don't.

Mostly I'd like to hear from folks who actually run separate businesses, if there are any out there willing to share? Would love to hear some other opinions from those who have tried it and have actual experience on the matter.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 1, 2012)

As I said, you're overthinking it. Even if you establish a secondary business or pseudonym it's not that hard to connect the dots and get "dox" I'm saying that the business contract is between you and the individual. If you're worried about parents or kids seeing your stuff. I don't know what to tell you. I know artists that do several pen names but they always complete business under their real name. If they complete it under their business name, they have to deal with forms and taxes. You want money for what you do, so the person you works (the customer) with you generally goes under an agreement that personal information is not given out. Just like you don't give out their personal information when they send you money. It's a 2 way street.


You're making a lot of excuses for this and seeing that you're getting really uppity about this being discreet, you are in fact making it LESS discreet.


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## Zenia (Feb 1, 2012)

I believe you can set up PayPal with a fake name... but you can't link it to your bank account to deposit the money to use IRL or link your credit card to it. I wouldn't reccomend it either. It is very dishonest... and I would think that if PayPal found out, they would freeze your account.

I have an issue with people knowing my IRL name as well... but I have taken lots of commissions and all of those people know what it is now. They are great about not sharing it though. Also, there is no way for your parents to find out that you are drawing adult themed art unless you tell them really. But if you want to draw adult art, and you yourself are an adult... what is the big deal? I don't give a crap if my parents know I draw porn or not. It is my life and I've got so supplement my income somehow.


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## angelicshadow (Feb 1, 2012)

Zenia said:


> I believe you can set up PayPal with a fake name... but you can't link it to your bank account to deposit the money to use IRL or link your credit card to it. I wouldn't reccomend it either. It is very dishonest... and I would think that if PayPal found out, they would freeze your account.
> 
> I have an issue with people knowing my IRL name as well... but I have taken lots of commissions and all of those people know what it is now. They are great about not sharing it though. Also, there is no way for your parents to find out that you are drawing adult themed art unless you tell them really. But if you want to draw adult art, and you yourself are an adult... what is the big deal? I don't give a crap if my parents know I draw porn or not. It is my life and I've got so supplement my income somehow.



I know that a biz account on Paypal will allow you to use a business name while not sending the customer your actual name.  You have to furnish your real name to Paypal as owner of the business, but the important part to me is that they do not provide that biz owner's info except on a need to know basis.  My issue is that I'm already using my biz name for my main studio and they only allow you to have one single biz account at a time.

I personally have no problem with mature art and am a pretty independent adult (pushing 30 here), granted having relatives Google my name and finding racy pictures might lead to some interesting conversations at Thanksgiving!  It is the fact that I am already a published author with the main theme of art being targeted to young adults and their parents.  Marketing myself as a separate entity keeps me marketable in my publisher's circles, to particular galleries, to my current fans, etc.  I'm not ashamed of wanting to draw mature images, rather I want to be careful about how they are presented so that one thing does not mix with the other.  Heck, if I wanted to start selling pictures of boats, I'd want a separate entity to market that under so they're not clashing with all of my elves and angels.  It's just easier, from a marketing perspective.

Mainly, I started this thread to see how other people have set themselves up.  So far, people seem to prefer using a personal Paypal account with a real name attached.  I suppose I could take payment at a personal account too as long as people know what they're getting into and request that they be discreet about that.  Seems like the complicated route involves the following (from a bit of research, for others who might find this thread out of curiosity):

- Filing DBA (Doing Business As) forms in your state
- Filing a trademark on your name with the Copyright office (not sure on this one, but it's what folks have said. I guess to keep your name from being taken?)
- Using a Business level account on Paypal, since it only reveals your business name. Real name is provided on a Need to Know basis (still waiting on word from Paypal on having multiple biz accounts if legal proof of pen names can be provided). You'll have to provide an SSN, TIN, or EIN to upgrade though.
- Establishing a PO Box. $20 a month rent if you want a completely separate mailing address for Paypal to Confirm

I'll have to ponder if I want to go complicated or keep it simple.  I hope at least that others can find this thread useful if they're curious about doing the same!  Taxes would be a bit more complicated, but I'm not afraid of them if income from a seperate art business would be a good one.  We'll see!  I can always evolve into that if things pick up.  Thanks for replies so far!  I will return once I know more from Paypal (I posted over at their community to see how others have handled it).


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## Sar (Feb 1, 2012)

Ill Just leave this here...


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## Volkodav (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh good fucking grief
AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SAY YOU ACCEPT ADULT COMMISSIONS ON YOUR FA
HAVE A PAYPAL EMAIL LIKE "YIFFYAFF2400@HOTMAIL.COM"
OR HAVE "DICKS AND ASS APLENTY" IN THE SUBJECT LINE


*YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT*


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## Lobar (Feb 1, 2012)

I believe it is possible to open a bank account "doing business as" an assumed name.  Google how to set up a DBA in your jurisdiction.


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## Zydala (Feb 1, 2012)

Clayton said:


> Oh good fucking grief
> AS LONG AS YOU DON'T SAY YOU ACCEPT ADULT COMMISSIONS ON YOUR FA
> HAVE A PAYPAL EMAIL LIKE "YIFFYAFF2400@HOTMAIL.COM"
> OR HAVE "DICKS AND ASS APLENTY" IN THE SUBJECT LINE
> ...



Wrong subject; we're not talking about paypal infracting users for their adult work, we're talking about how to keep your name associated with clean work and how to implement a pseudonym effectively and how to keep the two apart.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 1, 2012)

Zydala said:


> Wrong subject; we're not talking about paypal infracting users for their adult work, we're talking about how to keep your name associated with clean work and how to implement a pseudonym effectively and how to keep the two apart.



I think it's more of his frustration with the thread, where a bigger deal is being made out of it more than necessary. 
I know that if you order Sex toys for discretion *for the customer* they'll send the package out with the name "Sawhorse Enterprises" or something but that's for the customer's sake so Mom doesn't know you ordered the rumpa thumpa 2000

I know people feel weird or embarrassed doing smut art, or being associated where they produce the work under a pseudonym but at a certain point, If you want to make transactions similar to a hooker hooking up with a John ...do you really want to do this? You're exchanging money for a product. From the thread it sounded like concern over the customer. After all if it's your business - People generally don't do that much research into it unless you ripped them off or make it a big deal. If you're afraid of what the customer will do, then maybe don't do business with them? You do have a right to say no 

It's just when I see people asking this on FA, it goes to show more shame than pride in the work they do. On CA yeah there are people that do mature art, and sometimes you'll get the squeamish crowd, but most of the attitude is, "it's art" some artists like doing whatever and pushing boundaries and trying everything (which is good) and some artists recognize, if they like drawing over oiled fantasy girls, they may not be the first artist a client is looking for the Puppies and Kittens illustration calendar for 2012

If you're doing stuff for kids, then want to do the adult art without anyone finding out, just forget it. People will find out anyways so you either live with repercussions or see if anyone cares enough to start some campaign. 

It's not like people stopped going to see How to Train Your Dragon or Lilo and Stitch because Chris Sanders does pinup or more mature art featuring girls.


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