# Putting cubs in MATURE situations in visual art.



## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Ok, I am going to try this again as it seems that quite a few people needs to have things explained to them in detail. 

What I am wanting to know 'Is it ok to put underage cubs (fantasy) into MATURE situations in visual art'?

Basically, putting cubs into ANY situation that adults can find themselves in, murder, robbery, spying, etc. I know that some of you will think otherwise, but as this is something that I am curious about. I plan on running this poll/questionnaire for 2-3 weeks and will post the results in another thread after Thanksgiving.

*When I mean MATURE situations, I mean things that we as ADULTS find ourselves in on a daily business, not..*
*ADULT situations (things that are mean t for behind closed doors and in private scenes only)*

*THIS MEANS THIS AINT A THREAD ABOUT CUB PORN, BRING THAT SUBJECT UP AND I'LL RAIN DEATH AND SORROW ONTO YOU. -Corto*

So when you answer the poll, please explain you choice. 


Once again I ask that everyone keeps this thread clean and to respect others opinions.


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## lafeel (Oct 30, 2010)

Can't see why not as long as they aren't actually harmed during those events. And if that was the case I'd judge it on a case by case basis myself.


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## rainingdarkness (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't see why not. When it's based off something that a good chunk of the general population (here or elsewhere on the internet) has no strong opinion against I can't understand why it would be a problem. Fantasy is fantasy, it's not like anyone in good mental health is going to believe it's real.


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## Tycho (Oct 30, 2010)

Spying is not in the same league as murder and robbery.  A depiction of a minor committing violent crimes is generally in poor taste (outside of obviously comical depictions).


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## CannonFodder (Oct 30, 2010)

The poll says enough.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Oct 30, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Spying is not in the same league as murder and robbery. A depiction of a minor committing violent crimes is generally in poor taste (outside of obviously comical depictions).



"Spying"? What country is OP living in?


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Spying is not in the same league as murder and robbery.  A depiction of a minor committing violent crimes is generally in poor taste (outside of obviously comical depictions).


 
I know, but the question is "Is it ok to put cubs in Mature situations" that means things that we as adults find ourselves in on a daily basis


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## Charrio (Oct 30, 2010)

In this meaning of mature, then yes i would say its perfectly ok. 
It's that whole bad touch area where it changes


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## Asswings (Oct 30, 2010)

Why would you want to do this? I see no reason why you would put an underaged person in such pictures, unless you are specifically going for fetish fuel. I mean, if they are doing adult stuff, why not just use adults?


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Charrio said:


> In this meaning of mature, then yes i would say its perfectly ok.
> It's that whole bad touch area where it changes


 
I do apologize for causing any misunderstandings here.


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## Aden (Oct 30, 2010)

They're fictional characters made up of lines on paper
who cares what they do

I'll just be over here making fun of the badly-drawn cub art


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## Tycho (Oct 30, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I know, but the question is "Is it ok to put cubs in Mature situations" that means things that we as adults find ourselves in on a daily basis


 
I'm going to reiterate what has already been said many times: Your definition of "Mature" is retarded and at odds with other, sounder definitions of that word.

It sounds to me like you're trying to use "mature" as a weasel-word, to try and get people to say "cubs + mature = OK" so you or someone else can then turn around and present the data you have collected out of context for your own ends.  Your insistence on using that word sets off alarms in my mind.


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## mystery_penguin (Oct 30, 2010)

GOD DAMMIT
STOP MAKING THE THREADS!

We've said "NO" over and over again.


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Why would you want to do this? I see no reason why you would put an underaged person in such pictures, unless you are specifically going for fetish fuel. I mean, if they are doing adult stuff, why not just use adults?


 
This is something that I am curious about. I have no intentions of putting someone who is underage in anything like what we experience daily. For your records, I am not seeking fetish fuel


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## Asswings (Oct 30, 2010)

Tycho said:


> It sounds to me like you're trying to use "mature" as a weasel-word, to try and get people to say "cubs + mature = OK" so you or someone else can then turn around and present the data you have collected out of context for your own ends.



I didn't even think of this, but it sounds about accurate with me.

And again, I'm wondering why you would even want to use children/cubs in the first place. You never answered my question, you just said WELL I'M NOT GONNA DO IT.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Oct 30, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Your definition of "Mature" is retarded.



Hmmmm..._is_ it okay to put cubs in retarded situations in visual art?


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## TreacleFox (Oct 30, 2010)

I went back and looked at the very first threads in this forum, and they were asking the same question. =.="


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## mystery_penguin (Oct 30, 2010)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Hmmmm..._is_ it okay to put cubs in retarded situations in visual art?


 Well, a cub in an office cubicle would be pretty awkward.
Unless it was an eTrade commercial.


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Tycho said:


> I'm going to reiterate what has already been said many times: Your definition of "Mature" is retarded and at odds with other, sounder definitions of that word.
> 
> It sounds to me like you're trying to use "mature" as a weasel-word, to try and get people to say "cubs + mature = OK" so you or someone else can then turn around and present the data you have collected out of context for your own ends.  Your insistence on using that word sets off alarms in my mind.



I have never said it was ok to put cubs in such situations. And anyway, I made it clear that it was FANTASY.



mystery_penguin said:


> GOD DAMMIT
> STOP MAKING THE THREADS!
> 
> We've said "NO" over and over again.



For your info, I was cleared by the admin who closed the previous thread to repost as long as I rephrased the question in order to clarify it, which I did.


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## rainingdarkness (Oct 30, 2010)

I think it depends on if it's just a one-shot drawing with the intention to draw just for the sake of drawing something disturbing or not. If it's got a storyline behind it that explains why the situation is happening or how the character ended up the way they are, it gives it more depth and is more acceptable. If you're just drawing kids murdering then I'd wonder about the artist themselves. Everything is situational, I don't think there's a one category you can put this in.

I also think it would be beneficial to the OP to change the title to "Is it okay to put cubs in mature(non-sexual) situations in visual art"
It seems a lot of people are voting without reading further.


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## Lobar (Oct 30, 2010)

Is this just going to end up as a step down a roundabout and really stupid argument in favor of cub porn? :|

(i.e. "well you're all okay with kids in all adult situations BUT sex so-" grragh I hate to even type this shit)


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Oct 30, 2010)

Am I seriously the only one who picked option 3?


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Oct 30, 2010)

When used for the proper effect, yes.
For example, Lolita was an excellent book, yet centered on depictions themes of pedophilia.

Then again, I'm not sure I'd trust anyone to actually work the subject properly.


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Am I seriously the only one who picked option 3?


 
looks like it for now.


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## Miffeh (Oct 30, 2010)

I think if you have to ask the question then you subconsciously realise theres something wrong with drawing it.


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## Maisuki (Oct 30, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> This is something that I am curious about. I have no intentions of putting someone who is underage in anything like what we experience daily. For your records, I am not seeking fetish fuel


 
Define.. "what we experience daily" -  I think I missed something. I sure don't experience murder on a daily basis.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Oct 30, 2010)

Maisuki said:


> Define.. "what we experience daily" - I think I missed something. I sure don't experience murder on a daily basis.


That's a one-time experience.


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## Commiecomrade (Oct 30, 2010)

People into regular furry porn shouldn't disallow cubs; it's hypocritical. We wouldn't like people trying to destroy our fetish, why are we doing it?


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Oct 30, 2010)

Commiecomrade said:


> People into regular furry porn shouldn't disallow cubs; it's hypocritical. We wouldn't like people trying to destroy our fetish, why are we doing it?


 
There are different levels of fetishes. Would you compare a snuff film to a foot fetish?


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## Tycho (Oct 30, 2010)

Commiecomrade said:


> People into regular furry porn shouldn't disallow cubs; it's hypocritical. We wouldn't like people trying to destroy our fetish, why are we doing it?


 
please tell me this is a joke


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Oct 30, 2010)

Commiecomrade said:


> People into regular furry porn shouldn't disallow cubs; it's hypocritical. We wouldn't like people trying to destroy our fetish, why are we doing it?



When these things leak to the public, IT HARMS US ALL.


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Miffeh said:


> I think if you have to ask the question then you subconsciously realise theres something wrong with drawing it.



We experience murder (in the news), death (in the news) Drug dealers, and the like. Though we hate to acknowledge most of what goes on around us, we do experience such things.



Kit H. Ruppell said:


> That's a one-time experience.


 
True


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## ConnorCat (Oct 30, 2010)

Without a doubt, yes it's alright because it can happen, it does happen and if you're trying to portray a certain situation, yeah you can heighten tension by doing that. If it's not okay to show cubs in a situation like a robbery then it's not okay to show adults. But breaking from that a bit, to me furry is pure fantasy. I don't associate a bipedal puppy, kitten, etc. as something realistic so anything portraying cubs in what might be loathsome situations to some, doesn't bother me because they just aren't real and probably never will be real.


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

ConnorCat said:


> Without a doubt, yes it's alright because it can happen, it does happen and if you're trying to portray a certain situation, yeah you can heighten tension by doing that. If it's not okay to show cubs in a situation like a robbery then it's not okay to show adults. But breaking from that a bit, to me furry is pure fantasy. I don't associate a bipedal puppy, kitten, etc. as something realistic so anything portraying cubs in what might be loathsome situations to some, doesn't bother me because they just aren't real and probably never will be real.


 
Couldn't have said that better


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## Aleu (Oct 30, 2010)

why is it always assumed sex? Mature isn't always sexual. Mature can be violence too.


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> why is it always assumed sex? Mature isn't always sexual. Mature can be violence too.


 
And yet another valid point


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## Attaman (Oct 30, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> why is it always assumed sex? Mature isn't always sexual. Mature can be violence too.


 
Because this is the forum wherein we had multi-dozen page shitstorms about how it's unfair to follow the law and refrain from drawing fictional minors in sexual situations?  Seriously, we've had dozens of people from main-site (I would say hundreds, but I can at least confirm dozens via thread linkage) join up on FAF just to post about how cub porn is alright / should never be banned.  Furthermore, it's rarely brought up (Cub) unless "Porn" is involved somewhere in the equation.  Thus, it's very easy to assume that's what someone means on here.

After all, when you hear about going out to a murder, you don't think "Oh, he's going to hang with some crows."


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## Stargazer Bleu (Oct 30, 2010)

I am sort of against it, but as long as nothing actually happens to them, then maybe.

If it is everyday things, then more than likely kids do see things like that often.


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## Aleu (Oct 30, 2010)

Attaman said:


> Because this is the forum wherein we had multi-dozen page shitstorms about how it's unfair to follow the law and refrain from drawing fictional minors in sexual situations?  Seriously, we've had dozens of people from main-site (I would say hundreds, but I can at least confirm dozens via thread linkage) join up on FAF just to post about how cub porn is alright / should never be banned.  Furthermore, it's rarely brought up (Cub) unless "Porn" is involved somewhere in the equation.  Thus, it's very easy to assume that's what someone means on here.
> 
> After all, when you hear about going out to a murder, you don't think "Oh, he's going to hang with some crows."


Well, not many people I know don't know that a group of crows is called a murder. So not many people think that mature means both sexual or violent?


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## Attaman (Oct 30, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> Well, not many people I know don't know that a group of crows is called a murder. So not many people think that mature means both sexual or violent?


 
If you ask a gamer, "Mature" most often means "Violent as fuck:  Buy buy buy".  If you ask a Furry, "Mature" most often means "OH BOY LET ME SAVE THIS TO MY YIFF FOLDER".


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## Aleu (Oct 30, 2010)

Attaman said:


> If you ask a gamer, "Mature" most often means "Violent as fuck:  Buy buy buy".  If you ask a Furry, "Mature" most often means "OH BOY LET ME SAVE THIS TO MY YIFF FOLDER".


 good point.


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## Willow (Oct 30, 2010)

Depends on what's being depicted. 


AleutheWolf said:


> why is it always assumed sex? Mature isn't always sexual. Mature can be violence too.


 Because in most media "adult" is usually synonymous with sex.


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## Hir (Oct 30, 2010)

let people who like cub fap to it, who cares


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## RockTheFur (Oct 30, 2010)

Really? I don't find it that likable, although I am a fairly violent person.
So, in the situation of murder, robbery and violence? Why not. As for cubs? I wouldn't find that interesting or anything I would like.
So no.


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## Maisuki (Oct 30, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> We experience murder (in the news), death (in the news) Drug dealers, and the like. Though we hate to acknowledge most of what goes on around us, we do experience such things.
> 
> 
> 
> True



Well if that's what you mean... Yeah I'm sure it would be fine to show cubs watching TV :V


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## Ainoko (Oct 30, 2010)

Willow said:


> Depends on what's being depicted.
> 
> Because in most media "adult" is usually synonymous with sex.


 
I agree


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## PenningtontheSkunk (Oct 31, 2010)

I don't strongly oppose but the fact of a child(cub) doing something mature is distasteful, I oppose it enough to not support the type artwork.


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## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

ok


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## ShadowEon (Oct 31, 2010)

I voted "I don't know" because I can not say indefinitely. Honestly, I am creeped out by true cub art in which the characters are toddlers or around that or younger but I mean...people don't seem to mind horrifically gory drawings and things like that but cub art causes people to flip the fuck art? Kind of a double standard in my opinion. Who are we to say what if it is acceptable or not, it is just a drawing. If we can get rid of that can we get rid of all the scat and other horrible fetish art?

But regardless, it is creepy. Not quite might-make-you-want-to-cry type though,such as: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Baby-fuck.jpg/407px-Baby-fuck.jpg (Very NSFW). ;_; But unfortunately, there may be a furry equivalent of that out there...


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## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

ShadowEon said:


> I voted "I don't know" because I can not say indefinitely. Honestly, I am creeped out by true cub art in which the characters are toddlers or around that or younger but I mean...people don't seem to mind horrifically gory drawings and things like that but cub art causes people to flip the fuck art? Kind of a double standard in my opinion. Who are we to say what if it is acceptable or not, it is just a drawing. If we can get rid of that can we get rid of all the scat and other horrible fetish art?
> 
> But regardless, it is creepy. Not quite might-make-you-want-to-cry type though,such as: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Baby-fuck.jpg/407px-Baby-fuck.jpg (Very NSFW). ;_; But unfortunately, there may be a furry equivalent of that out there...


 
I hope not


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## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

ShadowEon said:


> I voted "I don't know" because I can not say indefinitely. Honestly, I am creeped out by true cub art in which the characters are toddlers or around that or younger but I mean...people don't seem to mind horrifically gory drawings and things like that but cub art causes people to flip the fuck art? Kind of a double standard in my opinion. Who are we to say what if it is acceptable or not, it is just a drawing. If we can get rid of that can we get rid of all the scat and other horrible fetish art?


I'm pretty sure if I dug around rule 34 I could find cub and all the other terrible fetish stuff, but here I can't. To answer your question though, yes, we can get rid of all the other horrible fetish stuff because it's generally terrible. Then again, a lot of furry porn is generally terrible. Like this gem I found on one of my watchers' journals Not safe for a lot of things. Though a lot of the tame fetish stuff I have on my FA page is usually terrible. 



> But regardless, it is creepy. Not quite might-make-you-want-to-cry type though,such as: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Baby-fuck.jpg/407px-Baby-fuck.jpg (Very NSFW). ;_; But unfortunately, there may be a furry equivalent of that out there...


I've seen this before, but still, oh god why.


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## ShadowEon (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> I'm pretty sure if I dug around rule 34 I could find cub and all the other terrible fetish stuff, but here I can't. To answer your question though, yes, we can get rid of all the other horrible fetish stuff because it's generally terrible. Then again, a lot of furry porn is generally terrible. Like this gem I found on one of my watchers' journals Not safe for a lot of things. Though a lot of the tame fetish stuff I have on my FA page is usually terrible.
> 
> 
> I've seen this before, but still, oh god why.



I never was a Zen fan. And mm, well I think everyone should get equal complaining rights then. People can be like OMFG CUB ART but they will just be like "meh" at some horrible picture of something get its head ripped off while it is having sex. I don't like that, at least cub art doesn't depict dying as creepy as it could be in some instances. And with an age locked account, I can't see anything, Willow.

And on the last part-yes. Anyone that could fap to that has something beyond deep mental problems.


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## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

ShadowEon said:


> I never was a Zen fan. And mm, well I think everyone should get equal complaining rights then. People can be like OMFG CUB ART but they will just be like "meh" at some horrible picture of something get its head ripped off while it is having sex. I don't like that, at least cub art doesn't depict dying as creepy as it could be in some instances. And with an age locked account, I can't see anything, Willow.
> 
> And on the last part-yes. Anyone that could fap to that has something beyond deep mental problems.


 
Tho I won't look at the pic, I have a feeling that it is not pleasant


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## Sharpguard (Oct 31, 2010)

I think cub porn is vile and unacceptable. I say we should draw some child protective service agents to take care of the job.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Oct 31, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> why is it always assumed sex? Mature isn't always sexual. Mature can be violence too.


 
Because at the end of the day the only mature situations furries put underage characters in are sexual ones.  You don't see kids getting drunk on FA or getting into large scale violent brawls, but you do see them getting raped by adults by numerous artists.

Op's just soft balling this topic by labeling it "mature".  To the people on the main site "Mature" boils down to sex, not a toddler swinging back whiskey whilst working at a detective agency.


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## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

ShadowEon said:


> I never was a Zen fan. And mm, well I think everyone should get equal complaining rights then. People can be like OMFG CUB ART but they will just be like "meh" at some horrible picture of something get its head ripped off while it is having sex. I don't like that, at least cub art doesn't depict dying as creepy as it could be in some instances. And with an age locked account, I can't see anything, Willow.


 I'm pretty sure that if I see that too I'll say it's terrible, but that's just me.


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## PATROL (Oct 31, 2010)

I dont see a problem, alhough it really depends on a single situation they're put in. There are shows on TV which include kids and mature situations all the time. (South park etc...)


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## Ratte (Oct 31, 2010)

Motherfuck, why would anyone link ZEN art even if it's to prove a point?  Stop that.  Stop that now.


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## Lapdog (Oct 31, 2010)

I think that putting in 'Cubs' is more perverse than anything else here...


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## Ratte (Oct 31, 2010)

When it comes to the cub topic, I just can't bring myself to care.  HURRDURR CASTRATE THOSE WHO FAP TO THIS SHIT TO PROTECT THE CHILLUNS.  BRB POSTING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HATE KIDS AND THAT THEY SHOULD BE BEATEN ALL THE TIME.  lolokay.

It's a picture.  Is it real?  No?  Then quit jumping to shit and freaking out about something that someone drew.  Jesus.


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## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ratte said:


> When it comes to the cub topic, I just can't bring myself to care.  HURRDURR CASTRATE THOSE WHO FAP TO THIS SHIT TO PROTECT THE CHILLUNS.  BRB POSTING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HATE KIDS AND THAT THEY SHOULD BE BEATEN ALL THE TIME.  lolokay.
> 
> It's a picture.  Is it real?  No?  Then quit jumping to shit and freaking out about something that someone drew.  Jesus.



Man, I would be more fine with it if they weren't so sneaky-freaky about the whole damn thing. I mean, just look at this thread. All putting "Mature non sexual" all over the place to hide why they really want to draw adult themed baby art. If they stopped trying to go NO GUYS IT'S OKAY SERIOUSLY NOT WRONG AT ALL and just went 'yeah it's fucked up but hey, not hurting anything' then I think I would actually be fine with it. But the way they're always so.... greasy and creepy about it just freaks me the hell out.


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## Ratte (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Man, I would be more fine with it if they weren't so sneaky-freaky about the whole damn thing. I mean, just look at this thread. All putting "Mature non sexual" all over the place to hide why they really want to draw adult themed baby art. If they stopped trying to go NO GUYS IT'S OKAY SERIOUSLY NOT WRONG AT ALL and just went 'yeah it's fucked up but hey, not hurting anything' then I think I would actually be fine with it. But the way they're always so.... greasy and creepy about it just freaks me the hell out.


 
Yeah, I know.  Trying to impose subtlety in here is kind of pointless.  Sure, a lot of the cub/baby shit is creepy as fuck, but I don't see how an inanimate picture is hurting anything or anyone.


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## Rilvor (Oct 31, 2010)

I voted no, simply because if you bring the topic up in conversation with me you have given me permission to scold you as voraciously as a Corvid could curse.


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## Lapdog (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Man, I would be more fine with it if they weren't so sneaky-freaky about the whole damn thing. I mean, just look at this thread. All putting "Mature non sexual" all over the place to hide why they really want to draw adult themed baby art. If they stopped trying to go NO GUYS IT'S OKAY SERIOUSLY NOT WRONG AT ALL and just went 'yeah it's fucked up but hey, not hurting anything' then I think I would actually be fine with it. But the way they're always so.... greasy and creepy about it just freaks me the hell out.


 
*Ahem* Excuse me while I go fap in a dark ally... :V

Edit: Holy shit, ninja'd twice?


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## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ratte said:


> Yeah, I know.  Trying to impose subtlety in here is kind of pointless.  Sure, a lot of the cub/baby shit is creepy as fuck, but I don't see how an inanimate picture is hurting anything or anyone.


 
Yeah. It's not hurting anything, but I'm still seriously against it just because of the vibes the people pro to the subject give off. Like they could delude themselves into thinking it was alright to do things that WOULD hurt someone. At least people who like gore and things go "yeah. It's wrong and creepy. But I like it anyways."


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## Ratte (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Yeah. It's not hurting anything, but I'm still seriously against it just because of the vibes the people pro to the subject give off. Like they could delude themselves into thinking it was alright to do things that WOULD hurt someone. At least people who like gore and things go "yeah. It's wrong and creepy. But I like it anyways."


 
:ediskrad:


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## Airborne_Piggy (Oct 31, 2010)

35 people didn't read the OP before voting.
I bet this was all an experiment.


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## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Airborne_Piggy said:


> 35 people didn't read the OP before voting.
> I bet this was all an experiment.


 
Oh no, at least I read it. I still said no, because why the fuck are you putting children in adult situations in the first place? There is no logical reason unless you're trying to be fetishy.


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## Airborne_Piggy (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Ok, I am going to try this again as it seems that quite a few people needs to have things explained to them in detail.
> 
> What I am wanting to know 'Is it ok to put underage cubs (fantasy) into MATURE situations in visual art'?
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure most adults find themselves murdering and robbing on a daily business, but hey, I could be wrong.



Asswings said:


> Oh no, at least I read it. I still said no, because why the fuck are you putting children in adult situations in the first place? There is no logical reason unless you're trying to be fetishy.


Hey man, cubs don't always have to be portrayed in sexual situations. I'm sure there are plenty of babyfurs who rp normal* rps, finding their characters in daily situations that an adult would normally find themselves in, the characters just happen to be cubs I had to type it to find it creepy.

*Whatever you define as normal.


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## Aleu (Oct 31, 2010)

Wouldn't Rugrats count as being put in semi-adult situations?


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Oct 31, 2010)

AleutheWolf said:


> Wouldn't Rugrats count as being put in semi-adult situations?


They tend to just stumble into them and come out unscathed.


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## RockTheFur (Oct 31, 2010)

ShadowEon said:


> I voted "I don't know" because I can not say indefinitely. Honestly, I am creeped out by true cub art in which the characters are toddlers or around that or younger but I mean...people don't seem to mind horrifically gory drawings and things like that but cub art causes people to flip the fuck art? Kind of a double standard in my opinion. Who are we to say what if it is acceptable or not, it is just a drawing. If we can get rid of that can we get rid of all the scat and other horrible fetish art?
> 
> But regardless, it is creepy. Not quite might-make-you-want-to-cry type though,such as: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Baby-fuck.jpg/407px-Baby-fuck.jpg (Very NSFW). ;_; But unfortunately, there may be a furry equivalent of that out there...


 
WHAT THE FUCK!? Why are you looking at that site, and that exact image in the first place?


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## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

RockTheFur said:


> WHAT THE FUCK!? Why are you looking at that site, and that exact image in the first place?


 

I asked that same question myself, heck, I am even afraid to click that link


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## CynicalCirno (Oct 31, 2010)

No cub porn is involved in this case as this talks about mature situations(Job, army, economy, deceased family, morning coffee, and nationallity, maybe politics).
Those are fine, as no inapportriate situations are involved. I don't think a baby should be hanging with politics, because that hurts the brain and delays development of it.
Situations like robbery, murder, spying or army are perfectly fine, as I doubt any children are watching it and may be affected by it.
If an artist, who is  adult, or mature, draws it for himself or a small party, without making too much of a fuss about it, it will be normal. 
If he makes money out of it - then it's his second hand job, and stopping it will stop his income and probably his feed.
You give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. You teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime - if he already draws it and has income in any possible way, like bling, golds or enjoyment, then there is no reason to stop it.

It seems that many people ignore the line saying 





> not..
> ADULT situations (things that are mean t for behind closed doors and in private scenes only)


This is not about sex. NOT. Not anything private or closed doors or closets. This is random artwork, featuring young cubs in real life situations, which you enjoy or suffer every day.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Airborne_Piggy said:


> Hey man, cubs don't always have to be portrayed in sexual situations. I'm sure there are plenty of babyfurs who rp normal* rps, finding their characters in daily situations that an adult would normally find themselves in, the characters just happen to be cubs I had to type it to find it creepy.



See what I mean? Why would you DO that if you weren't being fetishy? Find me some non-sexual AT ALL babyfurs and maybe I'll change my mind, but until then, it's people being obsessive over their goddamn fetish and creepy as fuck.


----------



## GingerM (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Tycho said:
> 
> 
> > Ainoko said:
> ...





Ainoko said:


> Asswings said:
> 
> 
> > Why would you want to do this? I see no reason why you would put an underaged person in such pictures, unless you are specifically going for fetish fuel. I mean, if they are doing adult stuff, why not just use adults?
> ...





CynicalCirno said:


> ... It seems that many people ignore the line saying
> This is not about sex. NOT. Not anything private or closed doors or closets. This is random artwork, featuring young cubs in real life situations, which you enjoy or suffer every day.



*CynicalCirno*, I am glad to see that for a self-labelled cynic you choose to take *Ainoko *at his/her word. However, I'm afraid I have to take *Tycho *and *Asswings*'s POV; *Ainoko *gives the appearance of trying to employ the definition of "Mature" in a non-standard way on artwork sites, and I am concerned that this will be used elsewhere, stripped of context, to support an arguement in favour of cub pornography.



Charrio said:


> In this meaning of mature, then yes i would say its perfectly ok.
> It's that whole bad touch area where it changes



Exactly.



AleutheWolf said:


> Well, not many people I know don't know that a group of crows is called a murder. So not many people think that mature means both sexual or violent?


 
Given the TV and movie rating system, most people on seeing the label "Mature" are going to assume that has to do with how much sexuality is on view. The OP's attempt to argue for a less-common interpretation with vague assertions that the info won't be used to support arguments in favour of cub porn is disingenuous at best.

And I believe there was an unkindness of ravens perched on the lines outside earlier today.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

GingerM said:


> *CynicalCirno*, I am glad to see that for a self-labelled cynic you choose to take *Ainoko *at his/her word. However, I'm afraid I have to take *Tycho *and *Asswings*'s POV; *Ainoko *gives the appearance of trying to employ the definition of "Mature" in a non-standard way on artwork sites, and I am concerned that this will be used elsewhere, stripped of context, to support an arguement in favour of cub pornography.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
For your records, I am in no way, shape or form supporting child porn.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> For your records, I am in no way, shape or form supporting child porn.


 
First page of your favorites, http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4717396/

looks pretty fetishy to me. It's even labled adult.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> First page of your favorites, http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4717396/
> 
> looks pretty fetishy to me. It's even labled adult.


 Man I can't view it, but this has been bothering me from the beginning of this thread. 

Is OP's avatar porn?


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> Man I can't view it, but this has been bothering me from the beginning of this thread.
> 
> Is OP's avatar porn?


 
I'm gonna assume. OP has nothing BUT porn of their character. And some of it looks rather young. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4572545/


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> I'm gonna assume. OP has nothing BUT porn of their character. And some of it looks rather young. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4572545/


 God dammit my filter.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> God dammit my filter.


Here's a cropped version of OP's character I think looks pretty young (I can't be assed to go read through all their terrible porn stories to figure out his age, though. There seems to be a twincest theme, however, which tends to go along with kids.) 

And here's a cropped version of the thing I found in their favorites.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> First page of your favorites, http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4717396/
> 
> looks pretty fetishy to me. It's even labled adult.


 
What is wrong with faving art that is well done? Until the day that FA admins make it against the TOS to upload furry art that caters to other peoples likes, I will fave it, but once that starts I am out of there because that means in the immediate future that the only art FA will allow is clean non drama art. I enjoy most art on the site in its variety not for the same monotone boring style that some want the site to support. Just because I faved the art doesn't make me more akin to a pedo. I have a huge dislike for those people, and will go to jail for maiming anyone who harms a child in that way. 

I am seeing the day when we will be afraid to talk to, look at, touch, punish take photos of our children or other children for fear that we will be accused of being a pedo (unfortunately that day is rapidly approaching). I pity and fear for anyone who chooses to pursue a career in teaching as I have seen teachers reputations, lives and careers ruined because one student was pissed because they were given a failing grade and lied to punish them. And the bad thing... this can happen to any of us.

But when I started this poll, I made sure to word this as putting cubs into MATURE situations, I have never once wanted the adult/porn aspect brought up, but unfortunately, there are people here who can't use their brains and think that this is has nothing to do with sex. I'll admit, my first attempt was a bitter failure, and with the admin that closed the previous thread/poll permission, I reposted this, wording it to make it ABUNDANTLY clear that no adult situations were brought up.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Here's a cropped version of OP's character I think looks pretty young (I can't be assed to go read through all their terrible porn stories to figure out his age, though. There seems to be a twincest theme, however, which tends to go along with kids.)
> 
> And here's a cropped version of the thing I found in their favorites.


Well..curse curiosity. 

Although, the character looks like they can't be any older than 15, 12 at the youngest. OP, explain yourself and don't give us any of that "well they're really 25 but they look 15" crap. It doesn't work that way.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> I'm gonna assume. OP has nothing BUT porn of their character. And some of it looks rather young. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4572545/


 
Guess what, you are wrong. Assuming only makes you look bad because you failed to prove your claim. There is clean art of my characters if you bother to take the time to look. And for your records, I am not ashamed that there in porn in there.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> Well..curse curiosity.
> 
> Although, the character looks like they can't be any older than 15, 12 at the youngest. OP, explain yourself and don't give us any of that "well they're really 25 but they look 15" crap. It doesn't work that way.


 
Better yet ask the artist who did the art. Ask them why they drew my character that way. The vast majority of the art of my character is not like that. My character is in his '30s for your information.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> What is wrong with faving art that is well done? Until the day that FA admins make it against the TOS to upload furry art that caters to other peoples likes, I will fave it, but once that starts I am out of there because that means in the immediate future that the only art FA will allow is clean non drama art. I enjoy most art on the site in its variety not for the same monotone boring style that some want the site to support. Just because I faved the art doesn't make me more akin to a pedo. I have a huge dislike for those people, and will go to jail for maiming anyone who harms a child in that way.
> 
> I am seeing the day when we will be afraid to talk to, look at, touch, punish take photos of our children or other children for fear that we will be accused of being a pedo (unfortunately that day is rapidly approaching). I pity and fear for anyone who chooses to pursue a career in teaching as I have seen teachers reputations, lives and careers ruined because one student was pissed because they were given a failing grade and lied to punish them. And the bad thing... this can happen to any of us.
> 
> But when I started this poll, I made sure to word this as putting cubs into MATURE situations, I have never once wanted the adult/porn aspect brought up, but unfortunately, there are people here who can't use their brains and think that this is has nothing to do with sex. I'll admit, my first attempt was a bitter failure, and with the admin that closed the previous thread/poll permission, I reposted this, wording it to make it ABUNDANTLY clear that no adult situations were brought up.


 
You keep saying you don't support adult cub art. By favoriting it, you support it. Again, all this 'mature but not adult' weasel word bullshit is really creepy and irritating.



Ainoko said:


> Guess what, you are wrong. Assuming only makes you look bad because you failed to prove your claim. There is clean art of my characters if you bother to take the time to look. And for your records, I am not ashamed that there in porn in there.


 
Your character is wearing a leashed collar and making an 'o' face in your avatar. It's not porn? really? Show me the full picture. And I don't care that you have mostly porn of your character, I care that that character looks rather young in some of those.


----------



## Rufus (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> You keep saying you don't support adult cub art. By favoriting it, you support it. Again, all this 'mature but not adult' weasel word bullshit is really creepy and irritating.



Good point, the OP has forgot favourites are your most liked things, for example: my favourite team is whatever so I support them.
Plus Mature = Adult


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

I said this in the other thread you made. My character Willow is 15, which even under normal circumstances would be pretty odd to put him in porn. Though I made Willow to have the aura of a younger boy. To me, putting child characters in adult situations, mostly sexual ones, makes it seem like you only made them for fetish fodder. Especially if most of your gallery consists of porn of them. 

Though I used to joke about what would happen if Ash had sex with Willow, but that was before I changed Willow's description to [loli] shota.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Rufus said:


> Good point, the OP has forgot favourites are your most liked things, for example: my favourite team is whatever so I support them.
> Plus Mature = Adult



Yes I know that, however, if you look through my faves gallery (all 200,000+ pics) you will see that at worst 1 in 30,000 pics are cub related, not 1 in 10 as you are assuming.



Asswings said:


> You keep saying you don't support adult cub art. By favoriting it, you support it. Again, all this 'mature but not adult' weasel word bullshit is really creepy and irritating.
> 
> 
> 
> Your character is wearing a leashed collar and making an 'o' face in your avatar. It's not porn? really? Show me the full picture. And I don't care that you have mostly porn of your character, I care that that character looks rather young in some of those.


 
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2812470/  Is the pic in question.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2812470/  Is the pic in question.


I swear to god, I'm going to smack a bitch.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> I swear to god, I'm going to smack a bitch.


 
Why? You asked for the link.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Why? You asked for the link.


 Oh no I can't view it is all.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> Oh no I can't view it is all.


 
Ok.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Better yet ask the artist who did the art. Ask them why they drew my character that way.



You probably requested it that way.  Herp derp.



Ainoko said:


> The vast majority of the art of my character is not like that. My character is in his '30s for your information.


 
I simply cannot suspend disbelief well enough to entertain the idea that your dime-a-dozen nubile yiffbait character is in his thirties.  No fucking way.  That's like those morons who draw blatantly cub characters but say "Oh, he's actually 150 years old because he's MAGIKUL, that's also why he has the cock of a 25-year old attached to a 7-year old body" and shit like that.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

> Once again the fabulous   ladykix did a fantastic pic of my character   ainoko getting broken in by his new Master   neromyrwindstrike . What did   ainoko do to make his Master publicly humiliate like this? Well you are just going to have to wait until next month to see. I am working on the companion story right now.
> 
> You know, that sheath cage must be hurting right now, that is one of the reasons that   ainoko is looking like he is in pain, or is it pleasure, or both.
> 
> ...



Yeah uh. That's most definitely porn. If you think this ISN'T porn that makes this thread and your wording even more icky.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> I simply cannot suspend disbelief well enough to entertain the idea that your dime-a-dozen nubile yiffbait character is in his thirties.  No fucking way.  That's like those morons who draw blatantly cub characters but say "Oh, he's actually 150 years old because he's MAGIKUL, that's also why he has the cock of a 25-year old attached to a 7-year old body" and shit like that.


 I've seen this before on FA in page descriptions and it makes me cry.


----------



## SnowFox (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> Oh no I can't view it is all.


 


Ainoko said:


> Why? You asked for the link.


 
If you give the direct link to the image rather than the submission page you don't get blocked by the age filter and you can show the 15 year old girl your furry porn c:


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Rufus said:


> Good point, the OP has forgot favourites are your most liked things, for example: my favourite team is whatever so I support them.
> Plus Mature = Adult


 
All I am seeing right now is a bunch of fools who are trying to derail an honest query. Please stop trying to smear me or anyone else and get back on the topic in this thread. If this continues, I will report any and every one who starts flaming


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> All I am seeing right now is a bunch of fools who are trying to derail an honest query. Please stop trying to smear me or anyone else and get back on the topic in this thread. If this continues, I will report any and every one who starts flaming


 Guess what? This is relevant to the subject at hand. :3 

So suck it, bitch.


----------



## Rufus (Oct 31, 2010)

Rufus said:


> Good point, the OP has forgot favourites are your most liked things, for example: my favourite team is whatever so I support them.
> Plus Mature = Adult


 


Ainoko said:


> All I am seeing right now is a bunch of fools who are trying to derail an honest query. Please stop trying to smear me or anyone else and get back on the topic in this thread. If this continues, I will report any and every one who starts flaming


 
Don't call me a fool this is something that really gets to me and makes me really annoyed...


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> You probably requested it that way.  Herp derp.
> 
> 
> 
> I simply cannot suspend disbelief well enough to entertain the idea that your dime-a-dozen nubile yiffbait character is in his thirties.  No fucking way.  That's like those morons who draw blatantly cub characters but say "Oh, he's actually 150 years old because he's MAGIKUL, that's also why he has the cock of a 25-year old attached to a 7-year old body" and shit like that.



To your first comment, no I didn't. That was free art and the artist wanted to free reign. As for your second comment, he is in his '30s and full adult.



Asswings said:


> Yeah uh. That's most definitely porn. If you think this ISN'T porn that makes this thread and your wording even more icky.



I have stated that I have adult art in my galleries, who doesn't if they are of legal age, when I commission art from artists I have a say say in what goes in the art. I also commission some art just to see what reactions I can get.

All this is, is a failed attempt to smear me because of the poll I am conducting. Anymore posts like this will result in me reporting you for harassment.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Guess what? This is relevant to the subject at hand. :3
> 
> So suck it, bitch.



This is not relevant to the subject. This thread and poll was created to see if people were ok with putting cubs into MATURE situations. I made that abundantly clear in the initial post. You and others are derailing this and taking it off track.



Rufus said:


> Don't call me a fool this is something that really gets to me and makes me really annoyed...


 
I call them as I see them. Learn to read and understand what you read.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> All this is, is a failed attempt to smear me because of the poll I am conducting. Anymore posts like this will result in me reporting you for harassment.


 
We are putting into question your motives for making the poll in the first place, with the wording you have INSISTED on.  If we think your motives are disingenuous then that effectively makes this poll null, as it is likely a baited trap or an out-of-context "approval" of cub pornography waiting to happen.  Right now we think your motives are suspect at BEST and nothing we have seen on your FA page or on FAF has done very much to change our evaluation.

You know what? We fucking TOLD you to leave the subject alone, that nothing good would come of broaching the issue for the umpteenth time.  We fucking gave you fair warning.  And cocky bastard that you are, you went ahead and did it anyway.  Either you're a COMPLETELY oblivious scatterbrained fool (which is actually quite possible, the more I think about it) or you damn well KNEW what would happen and proceeded to willfully summon the flames of Furry Hell into this thread.

Go poll on SoFurry or something, you stupid fuck.  They'll be more than happy to give you what you're looking for, I'm certain.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> We are putting into question your motives for making the poll in the first place, with the wording you have INSISTED on.  If we think your motives are disingenuous then that effectively makes this poll null, as it is likely a baited trap or an out-of-context "approval" of cub pornography waiting to happen.  Right now we think your motives are suspect at BEST and nothing we have seen on your FA page or on FAF has done very much to change our evaluation.


 
No you are doing this to derail the thread. I made it clear what I was asking



> When I mean MATURE situations, I mean things that we as ADULTS find ourselves in on a daily business, not..
> ADULT situations (things that are mean t for behind closed doors and in private scenes only)



How does that equate to wanting or seeking approval for posting cub porn (which is something that I was in no way looking for)


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> This is not relevant to the subject. This thread and poll was created to see if people were ok with putting cubs into MATURE situations. I made that abundantly clear in the initial post. You and others are derailing this and taking it off track.



I am  not derailing and taking it off track, I'm checking out motives for even doing this. The way it's worded and insisted sounds like it's just a way to slide everyone down into cub porn is okay territory, and I'm poking around to see if I can find proof of this. The whole "OP's avatar is porn" thing was because Willow asked as she cannot see it herself, and you claimed it wasn't. Then linked it and it most definately was. Which again, brought your motive on this trap 'poll' into question.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> No you are doing this to derail the thread. I made it clear what I was asking


 
NO I AM DOING THIS TO TELL YOU THAT YOUR POLL SUCKS, THAT I KNOW DAMN WELL YOU'RE A SLIMY BASTARD WITH ULTERIOR MOTIVES, AND THAT YOU DESERVE EVERY BIT OF MUD IN YOUR EYE THAT WE HURL AT YOU.


----------



## lafeel (Oct 31, 2010)

Someone's reading way too much into this me thinks.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> I am  not derailing and taking it off track, I'm checking out motives for even doing this. The way it's worded and insisted sounds like it's just a way to slide everyone down into cub porn is okay territory, and I'm poking around to see if I can find proof of this. The whole "OP's avatar is porn" thing was because Willow asked as she cannot see it herself, and you claimed it wasn't. Then linked it and it most definately was. Which again, brought your motive on this trap 'poll' into question.


 
For one I have never claimed that the pic my avatar came from wasn't porn.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

lafeel said:


> Someone's reading way too much into this me thinks.


 
I agree


----------



## lafeel (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> NO I AM DOING THIS TO TELL YOU THAT YOUR POLL SUCKS, THAT I KNOW DAMN WELL YOU'RE A SLIMY BASTARD WITH ULTERIOR MOTIVES, AND THAT YOU DESERVE EVERY BIT OF MUD IN YOUR EYE THAT WE HURL AT YOU.


 Congratulations, sir, you just passed the line. Consider yourself reported for flaming.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> Man I can't view it, but this has been bothering me from the beginning of this thread.
> 
> Is OP's avatar porn?


 


Asswings said:


> I'm gonna assume. OP has nothing BUT porn of their character. And some of it looks rather young. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4572545/





Ainoko said:


> Guess what, you are wrong. Assuming only makes you look bad because you failed to prove your claim. There is clean art of my characters if you bother to take the time to look. And for your records, I am not ashamed that there in porn in there.




Also you have still failed to give me a good reason as to why you even want to know this. That's a huge point right there. WHY ARE YOU SO CURIOUS. You created livejournal polls, you created journals, you created this thread....


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Might as well report me, too. Because I agree with Tycho to the point I'm gonna mirror the same sentence.

NO I AM DOING THIS TO TELL YOU THAT YOUR POLL SUCKS, THAT I KNOW DAMN WELL YOU'RE A SLIMY BASTARD WITH ULTERIOR MOTIVES, AND THAT YOU DESERVE EVERY BIT OF MUD IN YOUR EYE THAT WE HURL AT YOU.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Also you have still failed to give me a good reason as to why you even want to know this. That's a huge point right there. WHY ARE YOU SO CURIOUS. You created livejournal polls, you created journals, you created this thread....


 
It is something that is commonly known as curiosity, nothing else.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

lafeel said:


> Congratulations, sir, you just passed the line. Consider yourself reported for flaming.


 
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4715153

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4716122

Do I detect a cubbie agenda?  Both in your faves.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

SnowFox said:


> If you give the direct link to the image rather than the submission page you don't get blocked by the age filter and you can show the 15 year old girl your furry porn c:


I could have told them that. 

Also, the answer to the question is "justify my kink". Just thought I'd say that before I go off to a parade. 
 No need to thank me. <3


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Do I detect a cubbie agenda?  Both in your faves.


 

explain how that is cub art? It isn't.


----------



## lafeel (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4715153
> 
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4716122
> 
> Do I detect a cubbie agenda?  Both in your faves.


And your point is what exactly? You attacked the poster, not the post itself, that is against the rules.


----------



## Asswings (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> It is something that is commonly known as curiosity, nothing else.


 
Simple curiosity doesn't send people on batshit rabid multiple-sources polls and make them freak the fuck out when it's questioned. If it was simple curiosity you would have just left it at that when your first thread was locked.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> explain how that is cub art? It isn't.


 
There is NO. FUCKING. WAY. that those two characters can be considered adult without a MINDBOGGLING amount of suspension of disbelief.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Simple curiosity doesn't send people on batshit rabid multiple-sources polls and make them freak the fuck out when it's questioned. If it was simple curiosity you would have just left it at that when your first thread was locked.


 
My first thread was locked because I didn't word the poll and thread correctly.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> There is NO. FUCKING. WAY. that those two characters can be considered adult without a MINDBOGGLING amount of suspension of disbelief.


 
The art styles depicted doesn't mean that they are cubs. All you think is that cute/chubby = cubs, when in fact cute/chubby =/= doesn't always = cubs


----------



## GingerM (Oct 31, 2010)

I've already said my piece; I agree with Asswings and Tycho. I find this... interest... disturbing. My opinion and obviously at odds with yours, but if to disagree is considered the same as to flame, then you might as well report me too.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

GingerM said:


> I've already said my piece; I agree with Asswings and Tycho. I find this... interest... disturbing. My opinion and obviously at odds with yours, but if to disagree is considered the same as to flame, then you might as well report me too.


 
You have stated your opinion and have not resorted to the childish attacks that Tycho has been doing


----------



## lafeel (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> There is NO. FUCKING. WAY. that those two characters can be considered adult without a MINDBOGGLING amount of suspension of disbelief.


Got something you'd want to read.


			
				Matoc said:
			
		

> All characters in my art are at least 18 years of age. EVEN MAXI ...  he's just very short lol . Maxi is 5foot2 ... so is Appollo.^_^


That's from the artist's own page, in his profile.


----------



## lafeel (Oct 31, 2010)

GingerM said:


> I've already said my piece; I agree with Asswings and Tycho. I find this... interest... disturbing. My opinion and obviously at odds with yours, but if to disagree is considered the same as to flame, then you might as well report me too.


 No, you at least didn't resort to personal attacks.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

lafeel said:


> Got something you'd want to read.
> 
> That's from the artist's own page, in his profile.


 
"HURR IT LOOKS LIKE A KID BUT IT'S NOT, I SWEAR"


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> "HURR IT LOOKS LIKE A KID BUT IT'S NOT, I SWEAR"


 
Believe it or not, but the vast majority of artist on the main site don't draw cub art (some only draw clean, some adult) and those that do clearly mark it as such. When posting art, we have to properly tag the submission, even as far as putting up thumbnails.


----------



## Attaman (Oct 31, 2010)

So, if I'm summarizing the thread right:

OP makes intentionally vague thread in multiple places talking about the placement of minors in mature situations.
Specific users* find no problem with such.
Other users question of use of word "Mature" and purpose of OP.
OP denies any association with use of word and possible interpretations.
Other users continue to question OP about reason for OP.
OP refuses to expand upon such, saying that their intent is enough.
OP & Specific users are found to be participating in material that goes with typical connotation of Mature situations.
OP & Specific users continue to deny any affiliation, claim misinterpretation, quickly turn to reporting users.

This about sum up the thread by this point?


*Importance mentioned later


EDIT:  Also, of course people aren't going to label potentially illegal artwork with tags that mark out "Potentially illegal artwork!"  It's funny that people are extremely fast to label a thousand year old anime character as "Loli" because they look eight, but when a Furry character meets the criteria "OH IT'S OLDER THAN IT LOOKS NOT CUB SEE NOT EVEN TAGGED THAT WAY YOU'RE GRASPING STRAWS MAN!"


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Attaman said:


> So, if I'm summarizing the thread right:
> 
> OP makes intentionally vague thread in multiple places talking about the placement of minors in mature situations.
> Specific users* find no problem with such.
> ...


 
You took the Awareness perk, huh?


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Attaman said:


> So, if I'm summarizing the thread right:
> 
> OP makes intentionally vague thread in multiple places talking about the placement of minors in mature situations.
> Specific users* find no problem with such.
> ...


 
OP makes intentionally vague thread in multiple places talking about the placement of minors in mature situations.  

*Explain how I was vague, I made it clear that it was MATURE not ADULT situations*


Specific users* find no problem with such.  

*They read the post correctly*


Other users question of use of word "Mature" and purpose of OP. 

*They question because they failed to read to post and made the wrong assumptions*


OP denies any association with use of word and possible interpretations.  

*I made it clear what I was asking*


Other users continue to question OP about reason for OP.  

*They continue because they don't know how to read and reason*


OP refuses to expand upon such, saying that their intent is enough.   

*I have explained plenty of times and no one listens*


OP & Specific users are found to be participating in material that goes with typical connotation of Mature situations.  

*attempts at discrediting me*


OP & Specific users continue to deny any affiliation, claim misinterpretation, quickly turn to reporting users.  

*reporting was done because of some commenters going off topic and for harassment*


----------



## GingerM (Oct 31, 2010)

Looking at the poll results, Ainoko, I'd say you have an answer, at any rate.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

GingerM said:


> Looking at the poll results, Ainoko, I'd say you have an answer, at any rate.


 
for now, yes. But this is running until 11-22-2010 making it far from over.


----------



## Aden (Oct 31, 2010)

The only thing I've noticed about this thread is that Ainoko and some people on his/her "side" double post a lot

maybe we can apply science to that


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Aden said:


> The only thing I've noticed about this thread is that Ainoko and some people on his/her "side" double post a lot
> 
> maybe we can apply science to that


 
That tends to happen sometimes when you are replying to other posts


----------



## Aden (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> That tends to happen sometimes when you are replying to other posts


 
when I do that I use the edit button because I'm not an idiot but okay whatever floats your boat


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Aden said:


> when I do that I use the edit button because I'm not an idiot but okay whatever floats your boat


 
I don't have notifications turned on (fixed), so I learn of reponses the hard way


----------



## Aden (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I don't have notifications turned on (fixed), so I learn of reponses the hard way


 
Notifications? I just check the threads I posted in every once in a while and reply if I feel like it. I don't get what you're talking about anyway since the only thing you need to change is click "edit post" instead of making a new one when you see something else you want to reply to and there are no posts under yours. 

I can make you a flowchart if you want c:


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Aden said:


> Notifications? I just check the threads I posted in every once in a while and reply if I feel like it. I don't get what you're talking about anyway since the only thing you need to change is click "edit post" instead of making a new one when you see something else you want to reply to and there are no posts under yours.
> 
> I can make you a flowchart if you want c:


 
If it would please you to do so, sure


----------



## Aden (Oct 31, 2010)

It would actually take some effort and time though and I want to run out to home depot so only if you need it for comprehension purposes


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Aden said:


> It would actually take some effort and time though and I want to run out to home depot so only if you need it for comprehension purposes


 
Take your time


----------



## Corto (Oct 31, 2010)

If people want to discuss make-believe kiddie porn, people can discuss make-believe kiddie porn. 
If people keep attacking each other instead of discussing the matter at hand, people get a thread lock and a shitload of infractions. 

Let's see if you can get back to discussing cub porn or whatever instead of insulting each other before I lock this thread, ok?

EDIT: This is a reply to the shitload of reports we got. In the meantime I'll have to read over a hundred and forty posts about underage animal porn. I love my job.


----------



## Attaman (Oct 31, 2010)

Corto said:


> EDIT: This is a reply to the shitload of reports we got. In the meantime I'll have to read over a hundred and forty posts about underage animal porn. I love my job.


 
You could always try,
To make all following posts,
In Haiku format.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Corto said:


> If stupid people want to discuss make-believe kiddie porn, stupid people can discuss make-believe kiddie porn.
> If stupid people keep attacking each other instead of discussing the matter at hand, stupid people get a thread lock and a shitload of infractions.
> 
> Let's see if you can get back to discussing cub porn or whatever instead of insulting each other before I lock this thread, ok?
> ...


 
Thanks Corto. 

There should not be any talk about kiddie porn in this thread at all, just about putting cubs into mature situations (like what we as adults find ourselves in)


----------



## Corto (Oct 31, 2010)

Attaman said:


> You could always try,
> To make all following posts,
> In Haiku format.


Child porn haikus are the worst haikus


Ainoko said:


> Thanks Corto.
> 
> There should not be any talk about kiddie porn in this thread at all, just about putting cubs into mature situations (like what we as adults find ourselves in)



What, you mean like discussing politics and tasting wine and cheese? I didn't know that was even a thing. Is that a thing now?


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Thanks Corto.
> 
> There should not be any talk about kiddie porn in this thread at all, just about putting cubs into mature situations (like what we as adults find ourselves in)


 
Again, a vague and possibly misleading definition of "mature".  "Like what we as adults find ourselves in"? That could be everything from working in a cubicle-farm to driving a damn car to having oral sex.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

corto said:
			
		

> What, you mean like discussing politics and tasting wine and cheese? I didn't know that was even a thing. Is that a thing now?


 
Sorta. If you look at my first post, I made it clear that this thread was about putting cubs into mature situations in visual art, NOT adult situations.



Tycho said:


> Again, a vague and possibly misleading definition of "mature".  "Like what we as adults find ourselves in"? That could be everything from working in a cubicle-farm to driving a damn car to having oral sex.



This was not misleading or vague, I made it clear that this had nothing to do with ADULT situations


----------



## Corto (Oct 31, 2010)

Oh, you're actually right, it says so specifically in the first post. 
Ok people false alarm, this ain't a cub porn thread, so next person to bring that one up gets infracted for flame-baiting and thread derailing. This includes everyone (except admins because apparently I can't ban them, not for lack of trying though). Either way play nice or this gets a nice lock and infractions for everyone.


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 31, 2010)

I think cubs in situations such as murder is...debatable. If it's just some random pic involving a cub murdering/getting murdered, then I'm going to look at you funny. If it's a part of a storyline (however cliche that may be) then it's more-or-less okay.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> This was not misleading or vague, I made it clear that this had nothing to do with ADULT situations


 
Your definition of "mature" ("Like what we as adults find ourselves in") IS VAGUE and could encompass any number of acts and behaviors, prurient or otherwise.  It is a POOR choice of a word for what you claim your purposes are and your insistence on using that word with that ambiguous definition stinks to high-heaven of "trap".

I strongly recommend you use a different word and define it less nebulously.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Again, a vague and possibly misleading definition of "mature".  "Like what we as adults find ourselves in"? That could be everything from working in a cubicle-farm to driving a damn car to having oral sex.


 


Liar said:


> I think cubs in situations such as murder is...debatable. If it's just some random pic involving a cub murdering/getting murdered, then I'm going to look at you funny. If it's a part of a storyline (however cliche that may be) then it's more-or-less okay.



But isn't murder a mature situation that a cub can find themselves in?


----------



## Corto (Oct 31, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Your definition of "mature" ("Like what we as adults find ourselves in") IS VAGUE and could encompass any number of acts and behaviors, prurient or otherwise. It is a POOR choice of a word for what you claim your purposes are and your insistence on using that word with that ambiguous definition stinks to high-heaven of "trap".
> 
> I strongly recommend you use a different word and define it less nebulously.





Ainoko said:


> When I mean MATURE situations, I mean things that we as ADULTS find ourselves in on a daily business, not..
> ADULT situations (things that are mean t for behind closed doors and in private scenes only)


That seems pretty specific, he makes it very clear he does NOT want to discuss porn.

But don't worry in case that was too subtle I've edited the opening post to make things clearer. Why? Because I can.


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Oct 31, 2010)

Let me quote myself here:


JesusFish said:


> There are still laws against that.
> 
> "Mature" situations include any situation wherein one must be a legal adult to legally participate in.
> 
> ...



Still applies.


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> But isn't murder a mature situation that a cub can find themselves in?


 
Yes, but it's a situation that really does not need to be glorified with art.


----------



## Corto (Oct 31, 2010)

I don't think being murdered is specifically prohibited. May apply more if it's the kid commiting the murder.


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 31, 2010)

Corto said:


> I don't think being murdered is specifically prohibited. May apply more if it's the kid commiting the murder.


 
I'm not talking about what's allowed, just about my opinion of certain subjects. Cubs murdering/being murdered _really_ borders on being creepy.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

corto said:
			
		

> I don't think being murdered is specifically prohibited. May apply more if it's the kid commiting the murder.



Even children today commit murder



Liar said:


> I'm not talking about what's allowed, just about my opinion of certain subjects. Cubs murdering/being murdered _really_ borders on being creepy.


 
I agree, but murder is something that we as adults face, not on a daily basis, but it is a part of our lives.


----------



## Corto (Oct 31, 2010)

Yeah somehow cross referenced your post with Jesusfush's one. Insert googly-eyed Garfield image here.


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I agree, but murder is something that we as adults face, not on a daily basis, but it is a part of our lives.


 
Right, which is why it's not as bad if it's a story that involves it. But just random cub murder pictures push the issue.


----------



## Tycho (Oct 31, 2010)

Liar said:


> I'm not talking about what's allowed, just about my opinion of certain subjects. Cubs murdering/being murdered _really_ borders on being creepy.


 
Agreed, though if it were presented in certain contexts it would be a little less creepy.

In agreement somewhat with what JesusFish re-quoted - I think a depiction of a kid/cub smoking or drinking is in poor taste.  A "kid in the workforce" scenario is most likely benign and/or comical, barring drawn depictions glorifying or expressly approving of child labor and the exploitation of children.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Liar said:


> Right, which is why it's not as bad if it's a story that involves it. But just random cub murder pictures push the issue.


 
Well it's not like kids are committing murder today.


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Well it's not like kids are committing murder today.



Just because it happens doesn't mean that it *should* happen.

Saying "Oh, well kids have to deal with murder, so I should be able to draw it" is nearly identical to the argument that "Oh, well kids are getting molested by priests, so I should be able to draw it".


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

JesusFish said:


> Just because it happens doesn't mean that it *should* happen.
> 
> Saying "Oh, well kids have to deal with murder, so I should be able to draw it" is nearly identical to the argument that "Oh, well kids are getting molested by priests, so I should be able to draw it".


 
I know, but it seems that kids today do find themselves in most of the same situations as we adults do


----------



## Gavrill (Oct 31, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I know, but it seems that kids today do find themselves in most of the same situations as we adults do


 
That doesn't mean you have to illustrate them. Just because child rape and murder happen all the time doesn't give you any sort of moral high ground when and if it's drawn.


----------



## rainingdarkness (Oct 31, 2010)

What makes kids today and kids from "way back when" different is that they _don't_ have to deal with those things. Excluding third world countries with tons of inner turmoil and a population of people with short lifespans.


----------



## Willow (Oct 31, 2010)

Oh okay, so it looks like nothing too interesting happened while I was gone.


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Willow said:


> Oh okay, so it looks like nothing too interesting happened while I was gone.


 
Just Corto chiming in and changing the opening post a little


----------



## lafeel (Oct 31, 2010)

Yea, to avoid that misunderstanding getting even further out of hand.


----------



## Kibou (Oct 31, 2010)

Voted no without fully reading...
well thats what happens when you put
"FANTASY ART"
as a description

but yes I do think its ok to have kids in adult situations via anime etc


----------



## Ainoko (Oct 31, 2010)

Kibou said:


> Voted no without fully reading...
> well thats what happens when you put
> "FANTASY ART"
> as a description
> ...


 
Interesting response


----------



## reian (Nov 1, 2010)

I really don't know.  I wouldn't want them to be, but I'm not sure if that means it is right or not...


----------



## Thelastgasp (Nov 1, 2010)

I don't get it. It's a drawing. This makes me wish I could draw to recreate Tarantino film scenes with cute lil' cubs


----------



## CynicalCirno (Nov 1, 2010)

GingerM said:


> *CynicalCirno*, I am glad to see that for a self-labelled cynic you choose to take *Ainoko *at his/her word. However, I'm afraid I have to take *Tycho *and *Asswings*'s POV; *Ainoko *gives the appearance of trying to employ the definition of "Mature" in a non-standard way on artwork sites, and I am concerned that this will be used elsewhere, stripped of context, to support an arguement in favour of cub pornography.


 
I am quite a late poster, but here I go;

Tycho and Asswings have quite a haul in their points, but as far as I have seen OP, Ainoko, more than since I registered, I don't believe Ainoko is interested directly at cup porn, as the moderators can percieve and recognize quite a sticks of unpleasant information, execcive details, or rule trepass, which results in a complete ban.
As far as I know, pedophiles and cubpornpeople were banned at first recognition. That fetish link spammer, from a month ago, was banned. Although, it took quite a time, even though I reported it, making it a black hole for the staff, as they weren't active at those certain hours and a number of underage users were exposed to inapportriate material.


I do believe that with the average intelligence and behavior of the stereotypical furry, which sadly appears in packs of more than hundreds, and will misjudge and misunderstand approximately 99.9999....% of the time, due the reasons mentioned above. The sterotypical furry thinks straight about pornographical material. The typical furry, or the american, can't see the difference between mature to adult. Spreading it in websites saying that it's "Okay to draw mature art of cubs" will cause degenerates to draw countless cub porn pictures, and eventually either get banned, or sued. 

And still, to rely on a bunch of people in a generally strange and different furry forum, is not a proof of it's being okay. If Ainoko does aim to deliver this to actual fetish material, judging by Ainoko's avatar, then this will be against the law, and will not be comperhensed by anybody. You should not come here for advice. It's like coming for a pawn shop to loan 100 million USD.


In any case, I label mature more as gore rather than porn.


----------



## Grimfang (Nov 1, 2010)

I answered "yes". I haven't read this whole thread. I just think it's "okay" for a kid to be depicted as killing, stealing, etc. I don't see how that's a problem.

Kind of makes me think of the thing with video games. I believe violence (or maybe just killing) against kids in video games is widely banned. Maybe it's not even true, and if not, cool. I don't think it should be.

All I really know is from the OP, and Corto's threat.. and then OP asked for the reason, so there's my vote reason.


----------



## Jyoumon (Nov 1, 2010)

[rant]  (this in no way is meant to start a flame war or argument)

i guess i just have to wonder where peoples minds go when seeing pictures these days.  

It just seems that as soon as even the simplest subject comes into discussion, it will instantly be blown many times past its normal size into something altogether unsavory and disgusting.
this topic in and of itself has pressed at ONE and only ONE corner of cub art(the mature side) this does NOT in 'almost' ANY way mean a sexual side to the type of art.

with that said, it seems many also have the idea that this art somehow has a physical effect on the world around us as well, not just as a piece of paper with some wonderfully drawn lines and color on it or as a few hundred bytes of data surfing through the W.W.W.

art is art, what we make of it is our own problems, NOT OTHERS!!!.

Pushing ones opinions on others, in more than one way, makes you no better than Hitlers own personal army.

Nothing will ever be perfect, nothing will ever be exactly as you want it...EVER...learn that and move on.

in this one case, cub is simply a smaller, younger, less educated adult..and does that REALLY..i mean REALLY make that much of a differance?!?!

[/rant]


----------



## Asswings (Nov 1, 2010)

It's about the reasoning, IMO. Why. Why would you want to put a cub in these situations in art, unless you are TRYING to be fetishy? Why would you draw a small child covered in blood as it sits upon the corpse of someone it murdered, unless you get a kick out of it? Weaseling around it and pretending it is completely innocent is incredibly distasteful. 

You even point out a good point about this yourself.


Jyoumon said:


> in this one case, cub is simply a smaller, younger, less educated adult..and does that REALLY..i mean REALLY make that much of a differance?!?!


why use a cub in the first place? does it really make that much a difference?


----------



## 8-bit (Nov 1, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Why would you draw a small child covered in blood as it sits upon the corpse of someone it murdered, unless you get a kick out of it?


 
Because it's creepy.


----------



## ghilliefox (Nov 1, 2010)

putting them in mature situations shouldnt be a problem if its in moderation like in the link below but a cub in a gratuitous amount of blood is unnesesaryexcept in very specific situations
http://www.jaynaylor.com/betterdays/archives/2003/09/post-48.html


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 1, 2010)

inb4 Betawolf.


----------



## rainingdarkness (Nov 1, 2010)

I think that in the right setting, a child in a mature situation can definitely be used just for the creepy effect without people trying to get a kick out of it. For example, the game Rule of Rose. Very fucking creepy. In no way hot.


----------



## Gavrill (Nov 1, 2010)

rainingdarkness said:


> I think that in the right setting, a child in a mature situation can definitely be used just for the creepy effect without people trying to get a kick out of it. For example, the game Rule of Rose. Very fucking creepy. In no way hot.


 
At no time in that game did I feel my character's life was in danger. The creepiest thing involved girls hitting a bag full of somethings with baseball bats. I like to imagine they were hitting bags full of facehuggers.
Anyways, that game was creepy, but failed at being survival horror. /mini-rant


----------



## rainingdarkness (Nov 1, 2010)

I didn't really get the feeling that it was supposed to be in the same category as say, silent hill. Seemed more passive to me.


----------



## Gavrill (Nov 1, 2010)

rainingdarkness said:


> I didn't really get the feeling that it was supposed to be in the same category as say, silent hill. Seemed more passive to me.


 
I mean, in subtler ways it was creepy, but I've been spoiled with RE and SH, so it just didn't creep me out much.


----------



## Willow (Nov 1, 2010)

If it's not for a creepy effect, the only other time where putting cubs in mature non-sexual situations would be okay would be for comic relief.


----------



## rainingdarkness (Nov 1, 2010)

Liar said:


> I mean, in subtler ways it was creepy, but I've been  spoiled with RE and SH, so it just didn't creep me out much.



RE 5 sucked so hard though, creepiness-wise.
But to try to stay on-topic...ish, the main reason RoR creeped me out was that it was a society ruled by children. That just...shouldn't happen. But I enjoyed the use of it as a setting/plot/etcetc, which is why I don't really think it's a problem for children to be in mature situations as long as it isn't for kinks.


----------



## Tycho (Nov 2, 2010)

rainingdarkness said:


> RE 5 sucked so hard though, creepiness-wise.
> But to try to stay on-topic...ish, the main reason RoR creeped me out was that it was a society ruled by children. That just...shouldn't happen. But I enjoyed the use of it as a setting/plot/etcetc, which is why I don't really think it's a problem for children to be in mature situations as long as it isn't for kinks.


 
Lord of the Flies redux?


----------



## rainingdarkness (Nov 2, 2010)

I never finished the game so I'm not sure how well it would compare. But if you're going by the "society run by children" part, then yeah. Basically.


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 2, 2010)

rainingdarkness said:


> I never finished the game so I'm not sure how well it would compare. But if you're going by the "society run by children" part, then yeah. Basically.


 
not meaning to sound mean here, but lets keep this thread on topic, please


----------



## Corto (Nov 2, 2010)

Asswings said:


> It's about the reasoning, IMO. Why. Why would you want to put a cub in these situations in art, unless you are TRYING to be fetishy? Why would you draw a small child covered in blood as it sits upon the corpse of someone it murdered, unless you get a kick out of it? Weaseling around it and pretending it is completely innocent is incredibly distasteful.
> 
> You even point out a good point about this yourself.
> 
> why use a cub in the first place? does it really make that much a difference?


 
On one hand, I disagree with you entirely. Children in adult situations can be used for a millon things, from representing broken innocence or the absurdity of the situation to even being actually based on true events (child soldiers, for example). The fact you believe it's all a huge fetish speaks volumes of the way you see the world, but seriously, South Park uses kids to show how stupid the situation is, is that a fetish? Lord of the Flies shows the way human nature itself destroys the innocence of children, does that look like a fetish to you?

On the other hand I'm wrong, because neither you nor this thread mentioned children, but cubs. That's most probably a fetish. A sick, sick fetish.


----------



## Tycho (Nov 2, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> not meaning to sound mean here, but lets keep this thread on topic, please


 
That IS relatively on-topic.  Think about it.  (But not TOO hard.)  Children taking on the roles and responsibilities that adults would normally be in charge of.  Just because it isn't bloody murder or some other calamity doesn't make it any less valid as a "mature" situation (I still hate your insistence on using *that* word).



Corto said:


> On the other hand I'm wrong, because neither you nor this thread mentioned children, but cubs. That's most probably a fetish. A sick, sick fetish.



That "cub" word IS becoming increasingly annoying.


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 2, 2010)

ainoko said:
			
		

> not meaning to sound mean here, but lets keep this thread on topic, please
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xipoid (Nov 2, 2010)

I think it depends more on how one goes about depicting said event. If it is done artistically or with some overarching point or social commentary (like depicting a child working to support their broken family or suicidally depressed parent(s)), then that's fine and could even be great. If it's just wank-art then it's stepping on too many toes by walking the line of dangerously creepy.


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 2, 2010)

Xipoid said:


> I think it depends more on how one goes about depicting said event. If it is done artistically or with some overarching point or social commentary (like depicting a child working to support their broken family or suicidally depressed parent(s)), then that's fine and could even be great. If it's just wank-art then it's stepping on too many toes by walking the line of dangerously creepy.


 
You said it clearly


----------



## Heimdal (Nov 2, 2010)

Corto said:


> On the other hand I'm wrong, because neither you nor this thread mentioned children, but cubs. That's most probably a fetish. A sick, sick fetish.



This!

The assumed child innocence, in mature situations, is a powerful device. When it's a human child. When it's a cub, the audience has to interpret why it's an animal _and_ why it's a child. It vagues it up a bit, especially when much of the time there is no reason why it's an animal, so having to selectively interpret things is a big fail. Also it's probably just a sick fetish anyways.


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 2, 2010)

Heimdal said:


> This!
> 
> The assumed child innocence, in mature situations, is a powerful device. When it's a human child. When it's a cub, the audience has to interpret why it's an animal _and_ why it's a child. It vagues it up a bit, especially when much of the time there is no reason why it's an animal, so having to selectively interpret things is a big fail. Also it's probably just a sick fetish anyways.


 
This is in no way a fetish, just an honest case of curiosity


----------



## Zaraphayx (Nov 2, 2010)

Didn't read the thread, but did this get revealed by the OP as a ruse to see how many of you think violence is ok but sex isn't or some sort of cliche criticism of western sensibilities?


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 2, 2010)

Zaraphayx said:


> Didn't read the thread, but did this get revealed by the OP as a ruse to see how many of you think violence is ok but sex isn't or some sort of cliche criticism of western sensibilities?


 
None of teh reasons you stated


----------



## Zaraphayx (Nov 2, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> None of teh reasons you stated


 
Oh ok.

Well have fun with that I guess.


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 2, 2010)

Zaraphayx said:


> Oh ok.
> 
> Well have fun with that I guess.


 
We'll see what the final results will be on the 23rd after the poll closes.


----------



## Squeak (Nov 3, 2010)

-deleted-


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 3, 2010)

Squeak said:


> -deleted-


 
Now you have me curious about what was said


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 4, 2010)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> inb4 Betawolf.


 
Why Betawolf?


----------



## Zaraphayx (Nov 4, 2010)

Edit: Nope nevermind.


----------



## Ainoko (Nov 4, 2010)

Zaraphayx said:


> Edit: Nope nevermind.


 
curiouser and curiouser


----------



## Ben (Nov 4, 2010)

Asswings said:


> It's about the reasoning, IMO. Why. Why would you want to put a cub in these situations in art, unless you are TRYING to be fetishy? Why would you draw a small child covered in blood as it sits upon the corpse of someone it murdered, unless you get a kick out of it? Weaseling around it and pretending it is completely innocent is incredibly distasteful.


 
The anime "When They Cry" depicts little girls killing people in several episodes. There isn't really anything to support that it's automatically a fetish thing.

Also, I'm betting most of the people who voted on the poll thought it was about cub porn. If not, are we really getting so controlling that fictional kids can't be depicted as murderers or drug abusers? Now we're just getting silly.


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## Xaerun (Nov 4, 2010)

Asswings said:


> It's about the reasoning, IMO. Why. Why would you want to put a cub in these situations in art, unless you are TRYING to be fetishy? Why would you draw a small child covered in blood as it sits upon the corpse of someone it murdered, unless you get a kick out of it? Weaseling around it and pretending it is completely innocent is incredibly distasteful.


Because it's amazingly creepy? Like srsly?


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## Ozriel (Nov 4, 2010)

When I think of kids in mature situations, I think of the little girl in Kick-Ass.


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## Aden (Nov 4, 2010)

Asswings said:


> It's about the reasoning, IMO. Why. Why would you want to put a cub in these situations in art, unless you are TRYING to be fetishy? Why would you draw a small child covered in blood as it sits upon the corpse of someone it murdered, unless you get a kick out of it? Weaseling around it and pretending it is completely innocent is incredibly distasteful.


 
Yeah I think it's to get unsettled reactions not unlike this one


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## Corto (Nov 4, 2010)

Heimdal said:


> This!
> 
> The assumed child innocence, in mature situations, is a powerful device. When it's a human child. When it's a cub, the audience has to interpret why it's an animal _and_ why it's a child. It vagues it up a bit, especially when much of the time there is no reason why it's an animal, so having to selectively interpret things is a big fail. Also it's probably just a sick fetish anyways.


The only way I see it working is if you are using animals for some reason such as the usual "represents emotions/types of person" thing that has robbers being raccoons, corrupt pigs being, well, pigs, etc etc. None of this "furry fandom" bullshit, but rather another reason that stands on it's own. For example Maus did it quite well, it's been a while since I read it but I'm sure there are kids in the comic. There you have children represented as animals (jewish kids as mice I think I recall) in a very adult situation (WWII and the Holocaust) but it works because it was made this way to help the story, not for the sake of using animals. 
The fact the author didn't whack it to anthro-animal porn probably helps a lot.


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## Ainoko (Nov 4, 2010)

Corto said:


> The only way I see it working is if you are using animals for some reason such as the usual "represents emotions/types of person" thing that has robbers being raccoons, corrupt pigs being, well, pigs, etc etc. None of this "furry fandom" bullshit, but rather another reason that stands on it's own. For example Maus did it quite well, it's been a while since I read it but I'm sure there are kids in the comic. There you have children represented as animals (jewish kids as mice I think I recall) in a very adult situation (WWII and the Holocaust) but it works because it was made this way to help the story, not for the sake of using animals.
> The fact the author didn't whack it to anthro-animal porn probably helps a lot.


 
You made a good point there


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## NA3LKER (Nov 4, 2010)

oh thank god. when i saw the title, well, its pretty obvious what i thought. i wouldnt see any major problems with it, but i dont see why you have to use cubs. why not use an adult?


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## Ainoko (Nov 4, 2010)

NA3LKER said:


> oh thank god. when i saw the title, well, its pretty obvious what i thought. i wouldnt see any major problems with it, but i dont see why you have to use cubs. why not use an adult?


 
Because cubs can have a bigger impact in the picture, not mention, they can be used to encourage certain emotions as well depending on the scene they are put in.


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## NA3LKER (Nov 4, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Because cubs can have a bigger impact in the picture, not mention, they can be used to encourage certain emotions as well depending on the scene they are put in.


 
ahh, i see


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## Ainoko (Nov 4, 2010)

NA3LKER said:


> ahh, i see


 
yep


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## Ainoko (Nov 7, 2010)

Hoping to see more voting on this


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## Ainoko (Nov 13, 2010)

Bumping this one more time


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## Tycho (Nov 13, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Bumping this one more time


 
Knock it the fuck off.  If it dies, it dies, and good riddance to it.


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## Ainoko (Nov 13, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Knock it the fuck off.  If it dies, it dies, and good riddance to it.


 
I have gotten permission from an admin to bump this until 11-22 when it is supposed to die. Otherwise I would just let it expire.


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## DarkNinMagic (Nov 14, 2010)

Personally, I see no problem putting 'cubs' into a situation that adults would face, espically if it just to deepen a message, and not for 'cub porn' as everyone is seeming to jump to the conclusion. Oh and Tycho, BUMP!


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## rainingdarkness (Nov 14, 2010)

Don't fucking start that kind of shit.


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## Ainoko (Nov 14, 2010)

rainingdarkness said:


> Don't fucking start that kind of shit.


 
Who are you talking to?


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## Ainoko (Nov 15, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Knock it the fuck off.  If it dies, it dies, and good riddance to it.


 
I have asked that the admins lock this thread on 11-23 as it will have expired


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## Tycho (Nov 15, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> shamelessly bumpin' mah thread


 
Uh huh.


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## Ainoko (Nov 15, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Uh huh.


 
I am bumping this with permission from admin. I have also asked to have this thread locked shortly after the poll expires.


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## Mollfie (Nov 15, 2010)

I've said no, but it depends on to what extreme. If you have to ask, then you probably know it's not really right.


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## Ainoko (Nov 15, 2010)

Mollfie said:


> I've said no, but it depends on to what extreme. If you have to ask, then you probably know it's not really right.


 
I understand your point of view and others. I have planned on keeping this up until 11-22 and having it locked on 11-23. This was not meant to run forever. I am doing this to try and get as wide of response as possible.


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

As there is 4 days left before I have this thread killed by the admins, I am going to bump this twice a day, and once the poll closes, this will be allowed to fade into obscurity.


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## Ricky (Nov 19, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I am going to bump this twice a day


 
Just to annoy people?

Stop that.


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## Lobar (Nov 19, 2010)

Just fucking kill it now.  Worst thread ever.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Nov 19, 2010)

I seriously doubt you're going to see any change in your results that would be significant.

Kill it now, it's clear a majority of FAF doesn't want cubs in your so-called "mature" situations.


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## CerbrusNL (Nov 19, 2010)

Fyi, Posting in a thread for the sake of bumpimg it, is against the foeum
rules.


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## Cacao (Nov 19, 2010)

My two cents says it is not appropriate.  The animals drawn as porn already represent humans enough for someone to be offended at cubs shown in the same porn.  Using fur as a cover up to your pedophile-like intentions doesn't really make a difference to most people including me.  Albeit it shouldn't be illegal, but definitely inappropriate.


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## Ricky (Nov 19, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> Fyi, Posting in a thread for the sake of bumpimg it, is against the foeum
> rules.


 
You should lock the thread.

Like, as a punishment or something.


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## CerbrusNL (Nov 19, 2010)

Ricky said:


> You should lock the thread.
> 
> Like, as a punishment or something.


 You shouldn't tell me how to do my job. Besides, he's only bumped it once so far, a warning will do.
Not to mention we're unintentionally bumping this right now.


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## Gavrill (Nov 19, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> You shouldn't tell me how to do my job. Besides, he's only bumped it once so far, a warning will do.
> Not to mention we're unintentionally bumping this right now.


 
I counted 5 times, plus a few double posts.


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## rainingdarkness (Nov 19, 2010)

I only counted three on the last two pages, but regardless... /:


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## Gavrill (Nov 19, 2010)

rainingdarkness said:


> I only counted three on the last two pages, but regardless... /:


 
I think I was counting "bump disguised as content" as well. Oops.


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## CerbrusNL (Nov 19, 2010)

Hmm, I see, who gave you permission to bump this?


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## Gavrill (Nov 19, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> Hmm, I see, who gave you permission to bump this?


 
It was at the top of the page. 

Or were you being sarcastic...?


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## CerbrusNL (Nov 19, 2010)

Liar said:


> It was at the top of the page.
> 
> Or were you being sarcastic...?


 
With "You", I ment the OP


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## Gavrill (Nov 19, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> With "You", I ment the OP


 
derp, my bad


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> Fyi, Posting in a thread for the sake of bumpimg it, is against the foeum
> rules.


 


CerbrusNL said:


> Hmm, I see, who gave you permission to bump this?


 
I will note you the admin's name


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## Darlem (Nov 19, 2010)

I don't see any problem with it. Kids on the street steal all the time for food. Sometimes kids have to murder to live as well. I don't see any problem with putting cubs in mature situations, all too often people have to grow up sooner than they should anyway


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

Liar said:


> derp, my bad


 
I have messaged CerbrusNL the name of the admin who gave me permission to bump this. That is all you need to know.


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## Ricky (Nov 19, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> You shouldn't tell me how to do my job.


 
Calm down there, killer.

It was a joke.


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## Gavrill (Nov 19, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I have messaged CerbrusNL the name of the admin who gave me permission to bump this. That is all you need to know.


 
Well _excusez moi_.

Your thread =/= your rules.


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

Liar said:


> Well _excusez moi_.
> 
> Your thread =/= your rules.


 
As I said I messaged Cerbrus the name of the admin who said that I can bump the thread, after today the only bumping will come from anyone who replies to the thread.


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## GingerM (Nov 19, 2010)

Cacao said:


> My two cents says it is not appropriate.  The animals drawn as porn already represent humans enough for someone to be offended at cubs shown in the same porn.  Using fur as a cover up to your pedophile-like intentions doesn't really make a difference to most people including me.  Albeit it shouldn't be illegal, but definitely inappropriate.


 
Per Corto's edit to the OP, this is not about sexual situations.



Liar said:


> Well _excusez moi_.
> 
> Your thread =/= your rules.



He's not making his own rules; he asked for and received permission.


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

GingerM said:


> Per Corto's edit to the OP, this is not about sexual situations.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not making his own rules; he asked for and received permission.


 
And earlier, I was asked not to bump the thread if there aren't any comments after mine anymore as the admin who gave the original permission is no longer an admin.


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## Tycho (Nov 19, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> And earlier, I was asked not to bump the thread if there aren't any comments after mine anymore as the admin who gave the original permission is no longer an admin.


 
This forum needs a fucking SAGE so we can sink lousy threads like this one, like a goddamn battleship.


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## Gavrill (Nov 19, 2010)

GingerM said:


> He's not making his own rules; he asked for and received permission.


 
I know that. I'm just ticked at the condescending attitude.


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> And earlier, I was asked not to bump the thread if there aren't any comments after mine anymore as the admin who gave the original permission is no longer an admin.



This is my reply to GingerM explaining the situation.



Tycho said:


> This forum needs a fucking SAGE.


 
I was asked by an admin not to needlessly bump the thread. Something that I will abide by. Regardless of the fact, this thread will be dead after 6P CST Monday 11-22-2010


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## Aden (Nov 19, 2010)

Hey guys you know what we could actually do is keep arguing about it thus bumping the thread more
how does that sound :3


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## Ainoko (Nov 19, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> And earlier, I was asked not to bump the thread if there aren't any comments after mine anymore as the admin who gave the original permission is no longer an admin.


 


Tycho said:


> This forum needs a fucking SAGE so we can sink lousy threads like this one, like a goddamn battleship.


 


Aden said:


> Hey guys you know what we could actually do is keep arguing about it thus bumping the thread more
> how does that sound :3


 
This is the only safe way that the thread is allowed to be bumped, I can't bump the thread for the 'just because' reason as according to and admin that I talked to is because it is unethical.


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## Ainoko (Nov 23, 2010)

I am asking any admin who is on right now to please close this thread. It has run it's course and I have all the data that I needed.


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## Tycho (Nov 23, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I am asking any admin who is on right now to please close this thread. It has run it's course and I have all the data that I needed.


 
Use the report button, moron


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## Ainoko (Nov 23, 2010)

Tycho said:


> Use the report button, moron


 
Actually, I am making the request this way is to show the you idiots that I am doing what I said I was going to do after the poll ended. Requesting to have this thread locked.


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## Xenke (Nov 23, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Actually, I am making the request this way is to show the you idiots that I am doing what I said I was going to do after the poll ended. Requesting to have this thread locked.


 
We would have ASSUMED you did it anyway if the thread had fallen off the face of the forums.

But you keep bumping it.


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## lafeel (Nov 23, 2010)

Xenke said:


> We would have ASSUMED you did it anyway if the thread had fallen off the face of the forums.
> 
> But you keep bumping it.


 Someone needs to learn that when you assume you are making a ass out of u and me.


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## Ainoko (Nov 23, 2010)

Xenke said:


> We would have ASSUMED you did it anyway if the thread had fallen off the face of the forums.
> 
> But you keep bumping it.


 
I am wanting the thread closed so that there are no more replies. And making the request the way I did, is to let the usual morons know that I am wanting it closed, happy?


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## Tycho (Nov 23, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> Actually, I am making the request this way is to show the you idiots that I am doing what I said I was going to do after the poll ended. Requesting to have this thread locked.


 
fine, I'll do it


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## Ainoko (Nov 23, 2010)

Tycho said:


> fine, I'll do it


 
I was way ahead of you


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## 8-bit (Nov 23, 2010)

lafeel said:


> Someone needs to learn that when you assume you are making a ass out of u and me.


 
God, I hate that saying.


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## Xenke (Nov 23, 2010)

lafeel said:


> Someone needs to learn that when you assume you are making a ass out of u and me.


 
Ok third-party, you can be an ass too, I'll share.



Ainoko said:


> I am wanting the thread closed so that there are no more replies. And making the request the way I did, is to let the usual morons know that I am wanting it closed, happy?


 
And this couldn't be accomplished by the report button instead of posting because...?


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## Tycho (Nov 23, 2010)

Xenke said:


> And this couldn't be accomplished by the report button instead of posting because...?


 
because he's this


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## Ainoko (Nov 23, 2010)

Xenke said:


> Ok third-party, you can be an ass too, I'll share.
> 
> 
> 
> And this couldn't be accomplished by the report button instead of posting because...?


 
This was done to make sure that those like some people on this thread that was trolling for trolling purposes know that I want this closed, nothing else. Having the thread closed will prevent it from being revived which according to the necro rules I didn't break.



> Thread Necromancy Rules - Revised
> 
> A necro is considered to be a thread that has been inactive for a month to three months or longer, but this will be judged on a case by case basis.
> 
> ...



According to the rule above, I have NOT violated anything by doing what I did.


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## ArielMT (Nov 23, 2010)

Ainoko said:


> I am asking any admin who is on right now to please close this thread. It has run it's course and I have all the data that I needed.



*Please use the report button.  You can not rely on any moderators stumbling into an in-thread request.  The report button exists specifically to request action that can only be performed by a moderator.*

Thank you.



Tycho said:


> fine, I'll do it


 
This is the *only* reason a moderator appeared in this thread at all.

Thank you, Tycho.


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