# iPods // Spawn of the Devil



## LunArFoX (Jan 11, 2009)

I hate that everyone has one and they are so popular and all that crap.
So this is what I say.

I bought a creative zen instead! BEAT THAT APPLE!
Just as good if not better.





the ipod touch is still cool though. =O 

It's an okay company and all, But way to popular.
I correct anyone who call's my CreativeZen an iPod..


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## ToeClaws (Jan 11, 2009)

Heh, agreed.  I refused to get one because of Apple's insistence on trying to make the consumer user iTunes and basically their forms of management.  If I can't move files to and from it via command line, I don't want it.  Also, as you say, EVERYONE's got one of the things.

I got a Sansa 8 gig e280 instead.  I don't need it to hold all of my music, just the stuff I really wanna listen to.  Great player - works in all OS's, doesn't need fancy management apps.


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## LunArFoX (Jan 11, 2009)

Yep, I forgot to say something about iTunes too..

Well you said it for me, Thanks,


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## mrredfox (Jan 11, 2009)

well i love my iphone i think its brilliant, sure there are some shit sides to it, but thats the same about everything.


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## ZentratheFox (Jan 11, 2009)

Zen X-Fi FTW!

I only have an iPod because my car system only supports iPod in, at least if I want to control it via something besides the device itself.


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## Takun (Jan 11, 2009)

So how much music does it hold?  If it's not around 100 gigs I'm not interested.


Just checked the site and can't find one over 32 gigs.  Not nearly enough.


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## pitchblack (Jan 11, 2009)

Takumi L said:
			
		

> If it's not around 100 gigs I'm not interested.


Jesus. How much music do you have?


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## Takun (Jan 11, 2009)

pitchblack said:


> Jesus. How much music do you have?




Only 41 gigs, but it's growing fast and there are a lot of albums and bands I still have to check out.


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## LizardKing (Jan 11, 2009)

Do you listen to it 18 hours a day or what?


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## Swordsman_02 (Jan 11, 2009)

Same...Microsoft FTW.

I don't see a reason to spend so much on an MP3 player...my 30 dollar one is perfect for anything I need.


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## Sam (Jan 11, 2009)

Bought a iPod Touch as my first iPod ( I had a shuffle before that ). I haven't looked back since, and iTunes? Don't use it, I much rather use winamp. Check it out, it's pretty damn cool.

 That Zen player looks pretty neat though.


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## Takun (Jan 11, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Do you listen to it 18 hours a day or what?




Generally, yes I have music on at all times.  I don't watch TV, I listen to music.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jan 11, 2009)

My first MP3 player was a Creative Zen Micro. I loved it, but it was only 2 gigs, so I eventually upgraded to a Microsoft Zune, 8gig.

Four days later they released the 20gig version for the same price as the 8gig. I raged.


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## SnowFox (Jan 11, 2009)

So you are FORCED to use ITunes to be able to put music on your ipod? That fills me with more hate than words can describe. If I can't put stuff on it as I would with a USB disk then it's worth nothing to me. I got some mp4 player thingy for Christmas. It's 4gig and it's as annoying as hell to get to the song you want. All you can do is skip back or forward one song at a time.


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## Takun (Jan 11, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> So you are FORCED to use ITunes to be able to put music on your ipod? That fills me with more hate than words can describe. If I can't put stuff on it as I would with a USB disk then it's worth nothing to me. I got some mp4 player thingy for Christmas. It's 4gig and it's as annoying as hell to get to the song you want. All you can do is skip back or forward one song at a time.




It's not that bad...I mean I just update my whole music folder into it and then connect the ipod.  Bam!  Puts it right on.


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## Bass (Jan 11, 2009)

I bought one just because I could use iPodWizard on it.
Otherwise I'd've went with something better.


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## SnowFox (Jan 11, 2009)

Takumi_L said:


> It's not that bad...I mean I just update my whole music folder into it and then connect the ipod.  Bam!  Puts it right on.



I hate the fact it needs like 5 background processes to work. It installs stupid bullshit services and all this "Apple Updater" crap that runs on start-up and if you disable it it throws a tantrum and tells you your computer is broken and you need to reinstall ITunes. If it's not security related, I don't want it running on startup. Go fuck yourself Apple. :x


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## Oidhche-Yorath (Jan 11, 2009)

$20 MP3 player from Big Lots shames the lot of you :awesome:


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## xjrfang (Jan 11, 2009)

i never used to listen to anything but the radio, on the bus at work, at home, i did a little extra work for someone and i got a bit of extra cash so i decided to buy a 16gb ipod touch first gen. was pretty great, the features it had werent bad either, plus all the custom software for it was pretty neat, mine had a GBA emulator, so i was playing Pokemon on my ipod , this of course was after i modified it, but after 2 months of using it it got pretty boring, and i did not use up that much space anyways, plus i heard rumors of the second generation comign out soon, so i sold the ipod and got a random sansa clip mp3 player, and i find that much superior simply due to the fact that you dont have to use itunes. sure it doesent have wifi internet, or video capabilitys but i realized how much time would i actually spend somewhere where i would want to watch a video. im either with friends, at home or at work.. so meh


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## LunArFoX (Jan 11, 2009)

...
Creative Zen. Then I'll try Zune.


Hurray, Lol It's 2GB... I don't have much to put on it yet..


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## Takun (Jan 11, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> I hate the fact it needs like 5 background processes to work. It installs stupid bullshit services and all this "Apple Updater" crap that runs on start-up and if you disable it it throws a tantrum and tells you your computer is broken and you need to reinstall ITunes. If it's not security related, I don't want it running on startup. Go fuck yourself Apple. :x



I don't even notice.  I mean I'm browsing the net now with about 10 windows open and 3 chat programs running, and torrents/rapidshares running....


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## -Lucario- (Jan 11, 2009)

I find that there is something wrong with a product when it stops working right when the warrenty is up *cough* iPod*cough*. I just stick to your typical 20 gig mp3.


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## Nakhi (Jan 11, 2009)

I do not even have an MP3 player, but ipods are overrated.


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## Hollow-Dragon (Jan 11, 2009)

I can't stand Apple or iPods for that matter. They're one of the worst peices of technology I've ever had the displeasure of using. I got an iPod for Christmas in 2005, and the hard drive died 3 months later. Not to mention the damn thing kept freezing. I then got a Zune for Christmas in 2006, and I still use it, and I've never had one issue with it either. If I didn't have a Zune, my next choice would be a Creative Zen.


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## net-cat (Jan 11, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Heh, agreed.  I refused to get one because of Apple's insistence on trying to make the consumer user iTunes and basically their forms of management.  If I can't move files to and from it via command line, I don't want it.  Also, as you say, EVERYONE's got one of the things.


This. I had an iPod for a semester. I liked it. Except for iTunes. I like to keep a copy of my music on both my laptop and my desktop, and I like to be able to sync my MP3 player with both. It is not possible to do this with an iPod and iTunes.



ToeClaws said:


> I got a Sansa 8 gig e280 instead.  I don't need it to hold all of my music, just the stuff I really wanna listen to.  Great player - works in all OS's, doesn't need fancy management apps.


Good player, that. I've got Rockbox on mine. (Mostly so I can also browse by folder on the device, as well as having the database.)


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## Hollow-Dragon (Jan 11, 2009)

Attorney At Lawl said:


> My first MP3 player was a Creative Zen Micro. I loved it, but it was only 2 gigs, so I eventually upgraded to a Microsoft Zune, 8gig.
> 
> Four days later they released the 20gig version for the same price as the 8gig. I raged.


 
A 20 GB Zune doesn't even exist...  >.=.>


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## PeppermintRoo (Jan 11, 2009)

Apple does whatever it can to make ipods only work with itunes, then doesn't release itunes for any *nix.  It's the irony of Apple to take FreeBSD to make their OS, then turn around and try to pretend that Unix-based OS's don't exist.  

IMHO, there's no excuse for any music player to not register songs that were transfered onto its hardrive via a standard mounting.  Requiring specific software to do so is just being a jerk.

Because Apple is so controling over how you use their products, I've never purchased anything from them to date.  It's just one of those companies that seems to think they still own the hardware that you purchase from them; the only thing the user owns is the right to use it as Apple sees fit.  

P.S.
I'm aware that there's software for Linux that's capable of transfering songs onto ipods, but that's just from reverse engineering on the part of open source developers.  Apple does not support ipod use in *nix in any manner that I'm aware of.  I also would not be suprised if using said open source software violates an Apple TOS somewhere.


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## yak (Jan 12, 2009)

I've used quite a lot of mp3 players and portable media devices, but as much as I hate to say it, I admit that iPods indeed are more; and even much more in some cases; easier to use then other players out there. They are just that good.

However, not good enough to warrant their extremely bloated prices.


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## Aq Bars (Jan 12, 2009)

I got an iPod for Christmas. I'm not about to complain about a free mp3 player.

If (when) it breaks when the warranty is up, I may consider Zune.


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## AethWolf (Jan 12, 2009)

net-cat said:


> This. I had an iPod for a semester. I liked it. Except for iTunes. I like to keep a copy of my music on both my laptop and my desktop, and I like to be able to sync my MP3 player with both. It is not possible to do this with an iPod and iTunes.



Actually, it is.  When you first connect the iPod to the second computer, iTunes will ask if you want to associate the iPod with this computer.  Clicking "No" will still let you drag songs from the library to the iPod.  My iPod's been a little whore with like 6 different machines like that.


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## net-cat (Jan 12, 2009)

AethWolf said:


> Actually, it is.  When you first connect the iPod to the second computer, iTunes will ask if you want to associate the iPod with this computer.  Clicking "No" will still let you drag songs from the library to the iPod.  My iPod's been a little whore with like 6 different machines like that.


Yes, but you can't pull songs off the iPod this way. (Maybe you can now, but you couldn't back when I tried.)


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## Kranksty (Jan 12, 2009)

I have a Creative Zen 30GB mp3 player and love it! 
I did not get an ipod for the same reason they are so damned popular.


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## reigoskeiter (Jan 12, 2009)

i totally agree!
the ipod might be popular and that other crap.
but they have small memory small screen and u can do only an few things
i got myself an zen player myself and its so damn awesome!
its an 8gb zen player
screw ipod and all that ''popular'' stuff, creative ownz! ^^


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## AethWolf (Jan 12, 2009)

net-cat said:


> Yes, but you can't pull songs off the iPod this way. (Maybe you can now, but you couldn't back when I tried.)



Easiest way I've found to pull songs off an iPod involved enabling disk mode, enabling the viewing of hidden files/folders, and using the search thing built into Windows to find the songs since the files get renamed to something like 43kjhdskjfh45.mp3 when copied to the iPod.


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## net-cat (Jan 12, 2009)

AethWolf said:


> Easiest way I've found to pull songs off an iPod involved enabling disk mode, enabling the viewing of hidden files/folders, and using the search thing built into Windows to find the songs since the files get renamed to something like 43kjhdskjfh45.mp3 when copied to the iPod.


Or, you know, you could just get a player that doesn't mangle the shit out of your library organization. That sounds much easier to me. Cheaper too.


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## Takun (Jan 12, 2009)

AethWolf said:


> Easiest way I've found to pull songs off an iPod involved enabling disk mode, enabling the viewing of hidden files/folders, and using the search thing built into Windows to find the songs since the files get renamed to something like 43kjhdskjfh45.mp3 when copied to the iPod.




Don't even have to enable disk mode, at least on mine.  I just connect with hidden files shown and pull them off.  Do this to share music with my cousin.


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## Runefox (Jan 12, 2009)

I find my PSP with a 4GB memory stick does all I need it to do in this regard (music on the go) and then some. Compress everything to 64kbps WMA (2-pass) and it doesn't sound too bad, especially with the extra noise associated with the environment outside and in vehicles. If it really supported it like it said it should, I'd be using either Nero-encoded or CT-encoded 48kbps aacPlus v2 for about the same quality, but eh.

Otherwise, I just use my computer with some nice lossless or high-bitrate stuff. No need for an "MP3 player" when I'm sitting at a PC on my home network. Further, I despise any audio player that requires use of an application (and even worse is an audio player that needs to transcode to a proprietary format - I'm looking at you, Sony) to place media onto it. I also despise audio players that require background processes to be running at all times for no good reason. iPod, go sit on a tack.

Speaking of "MP3 players", that's ghastly marketing speak. It's a digital audio player - MP3 is a file format (and a not so great one nowadays, either, though it still limps along with LAME).


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## X (Jan 12, 2009)

i have a 1gig sandisk clip player, owns the shuffle in all forms imo, mostly because of a screen and built in radio. and i have another 1 gig player, some sort of colby with a touch pad, i cant complain, mainly because it was free. im going to try out an ipod (if i can find a decent price) planning on getting one of those gen 4 16gb chromatic nano's.


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## net-cat (Jan 12, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Speaking of "MP3 players", that's ghastly marketing speak. It's a digital audio player - MP3 is a file format (and a not so great one nowadays, either, though it still limps along with LAME).


It's one of those cases of a brand name becoming the common term for something. Like "Kleenex" or "Google." But yes. I remember the early Sony players couldn't be called MP3 players because they couldn't actually play MP3s.

That's why I love Rockbox. It'll play just about any (unencrypted) format I can throw at it. MP3, MP4, AAC, WMA, OGG, FLAC, &c


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## ToeClaws (Jan 12, 2009)

PeppermintRoo said:


> Apple does whatever it can to make ipods only work with itunes, then doesn't release itunes for any *nix.  It's the irony of Apple to take FreeBSD to make their OS, then turn around and try to pretend that Unix-based OS's don't exist.
> 
> IMHO, there's no excuse for any music player to not register songs that were transfered onto its hardrive via a standard mounting.  Requiring specific software to do so is just being a jerk.
> 
> ...



Well said!

For all those talking about capacity, remember that there are downsides to high-capacity players.  Any player that utilizes a hard drive can deliver a lot of storage space, sure, but they also have a couple problems.  For one, they're harder on batteries, and another thing (and perhaps the biggest problem) is that they are much more prone to failure.  

Hard drives mean moving parts (sensitive moving parts at that), and that means that enough bumping and jolting will eventually shorten the life of the systems.

I look at it this way - yeah I have a lot of music, about 40 gigs worth, but do I listen to ALL of that on a regular basis?  No.  I started copying all of the songs from the albums I like to my MP3 player, and I've yet to even break the 4 gig mark on it - and that's already at a good 24+ hours of music, if not more.

You don't have to store ALL your music on your MP3 player, in fact, that's the last place you should store it.  My music is kept on my main PC's drive, and backed up on a second portable drive.  The MP3 player is only for my favourite stuff.


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## Runefox (Jan 12, 2009)

Yeah, if I had a compatible iPod, I'd probably be happy with it and Rockbox, but AFAIK, the newer (post-2006) models aren't supported by it. It's a shame, too, because Rockbox supports so many formats (including MIDI, interestingly). Doesn't matter, though - It's still supported on other players. Myself, if I have something that the PSP doesn't play properly, I can download another piece of software (or find a lossless or high-bitrate version and transcode). So far, though, none of them properly support the SBR and Parametric Stereo features of aacPlus v2. Ogg Vorbis works, but I do find that 64kbps WMA with 2-pass encoding sounds good enough, and can be played directly from the XMB.


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## Crossfire21 (Jan 15, 2009)

I like my Ipod touch but I dont want to fall into the stereotype of some preppy rich teen/spoiled brat that they made their parents buy. I had to do double shifts for mine (damn minimum wage)


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## net-cat (Jan 16, 2009)

Crossfire21 said:


> I like my Ipod touch but I dont want to fall into the stereotype of some preppy rich teen/spoiled brat that they made their parents buy. I had to do double shifts for mine (damn minimum wage)


Heh. I know the feeling. (I can count on one hand the number of big-ticket electronics items that my parents gave to me growing up. The rest I had to buy myself.)


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## mottled.kitten (Jan 16, 2009)

I don't like that iTunes turns your music into some other strange format that won't burn onto cd's.

m4a or something?

Anyway, I got a Samsung for Christmas--I love this thing. Screw you, iPod.


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## Internet Police Chief (Jan 16, 2009)

Hollow-Dragon said:


> A 20 GB Zune doesn't even exist...  >.=.>



Whatever. 30 or something. It was bigger and the same price, that's the point and you know it, christ.


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## Digitalpotato (Jan 16, 2009)

I have an iPod nano because I only wanted something that would run music. If I wanted something that would run random applications, play arcade games, take pictures, play movies, store anime, have an OS, store messages, send messages, access the internet, play a farting noise, give me a random restaurant generator in town, act as a GPS, play anime, access youtube, send email, call people, text people, etc, then I would get a PDA that's built to do that, or even a Cell Phone. It has what I want and we got a discount on it. Although granted I probably should have gotten a much cheaper thing even if I barely paid anything for it at all.


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## lilEmber (Jan 16, 2009)

Well, actually I owned an iPod, and though I will always say a Zune is better, I never had a single issue with it, and it did everything it promised to do and more. It's just the Zune does everything an iPod or any music player can do, it's cheaper, holds more data per cost, has built in radio, wifi, zune-to-zune and zune-to-pc sync and transferring, you can tell what song is playing through the radio and download it wirelessly, audio recorder, bigger screen, games, syncs with xbox, can play flash, etc.

Though just about any music player needs its own application to sync, iTunes isn't that bad, and neither is any of them really, you don't have to use it because there's 3rd party ones such as songbird or winamp, it's just a program and you only need it running for when you sync anyway.

Most people are biased towards corporations, but honestly the iPod is fine with me. If apple made something better than another company like Microsoft or Sony, then I'd go for the best, not the brand.


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## Digitalpotato (Jan 16, 2009)

The iPod would really be a lot better to me if Apple added just one little feature....


....an on/off switch.


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## lilEmber (Jan 16, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> The iPod would really be a lot better to me if Apple added just one little feature....
> 
> 
> ....an on/off switch.



What? There is a off switch. You just set it to sleep mode, or leave it alone not playing for a while and it goes to sleep on its own anyway.

I rather like that.


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## net-cat (Jan 16, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> What? There is a off switch. You just set it to sleep mode, or leave it alone not playing for a while and it goes to sleep on its own anyway.


Haha. No offense, but that makes you sound like an apologist.

Prospective User: "I need feature XYZ."
Apologist: "No you don't. Nobody needs XYZ, so we didn't include it."

... Linux community suffers the same problem. (Although they usually say "If you need it so bad add it yourself.")


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## LoC (Jan 16, 2009)

iPods are incredibly over-rated, but I got one as a gift, so I can't complain.

You don't have to use iTunes to put music on/off your iPaperWeight, btw.


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## Digitalpotato (Jan 16, 2009)

mine was a gift too, and all my music's in .mp3 format. The only time I've ever actually bought anything off of iTunes was when my mom gave me a few gift cards that people gave her and she didn't need.


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## Tatsuyoujo (Jan 18, 2009)

I don't have any apple stuff ,and i'm keeping it that way.


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## Darzi (Jan 18, 2009)

I always found iPod/Mac/Apple hatred funny as hell.

Do you hate the device or the person with it?  Because most of the things that Apple puts out are amazing.  And, no, you do not have to use iTunes to upload things to your iPod...it's called a little googling.


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## TheAffliction (Jan 18, 2009)

I have a 120 gb Zune, but before that, I had a 8 gb iriver Clix that was great! But I gave it to a friend because I got the zune.


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## benanderson (Jan 18, 2009)

I don't see what people find so bad about the iPhone/iPod touch to be honest.
maps (with Global positioning), email, full safari web browser, applications and games, movies, photos, youtube and more...

I think the reason people say it's over-hyped is because they view it as an mp3 player and nothing more when in reality the mp3 player is only a small part of the iPod touch/iPhone. If anything it's a handheld personal computer. netbook 2.0 if you will.

I also don't see how people can hate Apple products in general. I'm by no means an Apple fan-boy (i use windows, iPod is my only apple product and my all time fave computer company is commodore) but I will admit that Apple make some of the highest quality and most fully featured electronic products on the planet. How can you hate that? (and "because it's sh*t" is not a valid reason)


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## X (Jan 18, 2009)

benanderson said:


> I don't see what people find so bad about the iPhone/iPod touch to be honest.
> maps (with Global positioning), email, full safari web browser, applications and games, movies, photos, youtube and more...
> 
> I think the reason people say it's over-hyped is because they view it as an mp3 player and nothing more when in reality the mp3 player is only a small part of the iPod touch/iPhone. If anything it's a handheld personal computer. netbook 2.0 if you will.
> ...



i hate them because they are expensive, and the fact that _everyone _has one.


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## benanderson (Jan 18, 2009)

half-witted fur said:


> i hate them because they are expensive, and the fact that _everyone_ has one.



So what you're saying is;
1) You're jelouse of people who own one;
2) You're pissed off that you can't afford one or;
3) A combination of the two.

If not then consider rewording that sentence. =P


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## X (Jan 18, 2009)

benanderson said:


> So what you're saying is;
> 1) You're jelouse of people who own one;
> 2) You're pissed off that you can't afford one or;
> 3) A combination of the two.
> ...



actually, im saying:

1. too many people have one and i want to be different.
2. i refuse to pay $300 for an ipod touch when i can get a touch screen samsung for $150.

oh, and i can afford one, but as i stated in 2 i can get a similar if not better player for half the price.

edit: 
one more thing, ipods don't have built in radios, thats one function that i use rather frequently, so thats also something that keeps me from buying one.


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## Runefox (Jan 18, 2009)

I've always been pretty peeved that people are willing to pay the exorbitant price for Apple products in general when there's no real discernible difference between them and the rest of the products on the market.


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## Digitalpotato (Jan 18, 2009)

Hey I'd use an iPod touch or an iPhone because I happen to be using a MacBook right now and I actually like to use it. 

But there's no way in hell I'd pay anymore than $50 for an iPod Touch since I see almost all those features other than music as worthless gimmicks that just drive the price up. It'd be like if I bought some expensive car like a Prius or a Lexus and only used the radio. My nano was a gift but I KNOW my parents abused the hell out of in-store credit, coupons, and discounts to get it for dirt-cheap.


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## benanderson (Jan 18, 2009)

You'd only call the extra features in the iPod touch gimmicks if you had no use for them. I use the browser, youtube, email and maps function all the time when I'm out (it helps that I live in the "city of technilogical excellence", so WiFi hot spots are a few feet from each other, lol). Heck, I even use my iPod's browser when I'm at home so I don't have to fire-up the PC.

Yes you can get other MP3 and MP4 players but thats all they are, MP3 and MP4. If you want full multimedia in a hand-held device then the iPod touch is the only real option.

I think the Â£280 price tag for a 32GB iPod (the one I have) is fully justified if you have use for it's features and when you consider it's specs and build quality (stainless steel, Solid State Drive so no moving parts, it runs a lite version of OSX, ARM Processor, plenty of RAM, full 3D graphics, long battery life) you can see where the price tag comes from. Plus with the software development kit the iPod touch/iPhone has a longer life-span than other hand-held devices.

Oh and... half-witted fur... not wanting an iPod so you can be different is the dumbest reason for not getting something I have ever heard. I'm a new-wave goth for crying out loud, as different as you can get yet I have an iPod.

Runefox, yes apple equipment is expensive. Their all-in-one Apple iMac for example but the equivilent all-in-one running windows vista with the same specs goes for the same, if not more (refer to the Advent AIO-200)


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## Runefox (Jan 18, 2009)

EDIT: Whoops, I didn't think this post was so long. Sorry.



benanderson said:


> You'd only call the extra features in the iPod touch gimmicks if you had no use for them. I use the browser, youtube, email and maps function all the time when I'm out (it helps that I live in the "city of technilogical excellence", so WiFi hot spots are a few feet from each other, lol). Heck, I even use my iPod's browser when I'm at home so I don't have to fire-up the PC.
> 
> Yes you can get other MP3 and MP4 players but thats all they are, MP3 and MP4. If you want full multimedia in a hand-held device then the iPod touch is the only real option.



>_> ... Homebrewed PSP, anyone? I'll admit, the maps function of the iPhone is second to none, but without GSM coverage/support, there isn't much in the way of wireless access where I'm from, so there isn't really a big difference between the iPod Touch and any other media device for me. The iPhone, however, would be nice to have.



> stainless steel


OK.



> Solid State Drive so no moving parts


So, no different from any other flash-based player or card-based player. Go on.



> it runs a lite version of OSX


Not a feature.



> ARM Processor, plenty of RAM, full 3D graphics


Not really features, unless you're a developer (in which case, it's more like "HOLY CRAP GIMME GIMME GIMME", which will help make them become features that people will care about).



> long battery life


OK. The iPhone part of the equation doesn't really fit here, but we ARE talking about the iPod Touch. Just to put it in perspective, however, the iPhone has trouble maintaining a charge for 24 hours, and can actually deplete its battery while plugged into a charger. =D



> Plus with the software development kit the iPod touch/iPhone has a longer life-span than other hand-held devices.


True. The PSP's homebrew scene is pretty good, but it's in a different class and aimed at a different audience (though Sony would have you think otherwise). Aside from the iPod Touch/iPhone class of devices, nothing really comes to mind in terms of a development platform that's really taking off right now for handheld devices aside from Google's Android.



> Oh and... half-witted fur... not wanting an iPod so you can be different is the dumbest reason for not getting something I have ever heard. I'm a new-wave goth for crying out loud, as different as you can get yet I have an iPod.


Agreed. Just because lots of people have one doesn't mean you shouldn't get one to distinguish yourself. It's like, most people live in a house, so I'm gonna live in a cardboard box like Solid Snake.

OH MY *GOD* *METAL GEAR*!



> Runefox, yes apple equipment is expensive. Their all-in-one Apple iMac for example but the equivilent all-in-one running windows vista with the same specs goes for the same, if not more (refer to the Advent AIO-200)


I don't particularly consider all-in-one solutions to be very useful, myself, but I'm a purist. I prefer everything to be as modular as possible, and that's not for everyone. Still, though, it's nice to be able to upgrade to a bigger/nicer screen later on down the road, especially if you don't have the desk space for two monitors. It's also nice to be able to do more than upgrade the RAM in a trivial manner, though John and Jane Doe generally take their PC's to a shop to do that, anyway, so that's just the PC purist talking. Still, things like the integrated video on the iMacs are still rather ancient, and largely incapable of handling newer games (which are beginning to become a concern for Apple users thanks to EA Games' commitment to provide Apple-compatible software). While PC's typically ship without discrete graphics, they can usually be upgraded - Not so with an iMac.

Buuuuut I'm getting far too into the Mac vs PC debate territory, and I don't really want to get into that.


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## LunArFoX (Jan 18, 2009)

They aren't bad, They are just over-rated greatly.
The iPod touch earned it, but still.


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## lilEmber (Jan 18, 2009)

net-cat said:


> Haha. No offense, but that makes you sound like an apologist.
> 
> Prospective User: "I need feature XYZ."
> Apologist: "No you don't. Nobody needs XYZ, so we didn't include it."
> ...



No offense taken, as I already said the iPod is great, but I'd prefer a Zune myself. That doesn't mean the iPod doesn't do what they say it does, and it does it well. The off switch IS sleep mode, the screen shuts off and the battery only tracts time at this point. Just leaving it alone without anything playing it will do this on its own, or you can force it by holding middle button + menu for 2 seconds.


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## Digitalpotato (Jan 18, 2009)

benanderson said:


> You'd only call the extra features in the iPod touch gimmicks if you had no use for them.



Yep, and I would have no use for 9/10 things that come with the iPod touch or most other MP3 players or cell phones.


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## PeppermintRoo (Jan 18, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> The off switch IS sleep mode



I've never used an ipod before, and won't purchase one until Apple meets my aforementioned criteria... but this tangent about an off switch has me curious about something.  

When you put an ipod in sleep mode, how do you get back out of it?  The nice thing about off switches is that they'll typically stay in the off position until you switch them back on.  A switch is about giving the operator explicit control over two or more finite states of operation, and _should be designed so that it is least likely to change states unintentionally._  If the ipod comes back out of sleep mode at the press of any button, then through the course of a journey in your pocket, buttons might be hit at random and it could be shifting in and out of sleep mode.  My cell phone made me think of this, because I typically keep it in my pants' pocket, and it's constantly making noises when I shift positions because the side buttons are being hit.    

My point:
If hitting any button will take it out of sleep mode, then it is lacking the feature of an off *switch*.  If you have to hold down a button for a few seconds to get it back out of sleep mode, so that it is unlikely to leave the mode until you explicitly instruct it to, then I would say it covers that feature adequately _to my own standards_.


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## Takun (Jan 18, 2009)

It has a lock at the top.  Click that switch on and you can do anything to it.


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## SnowFox (Jan 18, 2009)

PeppermintRoo said:


> I've never used an ipod before, and won't purchase one until Apple meets my aforementioned criteria... but this tangent about an off switch has me curious about something.
> 
> When you put an ipod in sleep mode, how do you get back out of it?  The nice thing about off switches is that they'll typically stay in the off position until you switch them back on.  A switch is about giving the operator explicit control over two or more finite states of operation, and _should be designed so that it is least likely to change states unintentionally._  If the ipod comes back out of sleep mode at the press of any button, then through the course of a journey in your pocket, buttons might be hit at random and it could be shifting in and out of sleep mode.  My cell phone made me think of this, because I typically keep it in my pants' pocket, and it's constantly making noises when I shift positions because the side buttons are being hit.
> 
> ...



I agree with this, I hate stuff that you can't switch off and know that it's fully off. Surely there's still a drain on the battery if it's only in sleep mode. This kind of thing annoys me with all sorts of stuff like hi-fi's where it's either on or standby unless you physically unplug it there's still a transformer humming away.


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## lilEmber (Jan 18, 2009)

PeppermintRoo said:


> I've never used an ipod before, and won't purchase one until Apple meets my aforementioned criteria... but this tangent about an off switch has me curious about something.
> 
> When you put an ipod in sleep mode, how do you get back out of it?  The nice thing about off switches is that they'll typically stay in the off position until you switch them back on.  A switch is about giving the operator explicit control over two or more finite states of operation, and _should be designed so that it is least likely to change states unintentionally._  If the ipod comes back out of sleep mode at the press of any button, then through the course of a journey in your pocket, buttons might be hit at random and it could be shifting in and out of sleep mode.  My cell phone made me think of this, because I typically keep it in my pants' pocket, and it's constantly making noises when I shift positions because the side buttons are being hit.
> 
> ...



Touching any button at all while in sleep mode will take it out, and if you have it on HOLD (like any portable music player should have) you can't take it out, but taking it out of hold (switch on the top) it will automatically come out of sleep mode without pushing any buttons. Putting it in sleep is as simple as not playing anything (on pause) and leaving it alone, on hold or not. This means you won't let the battery die. Sony, Microsoft, and Apple ALL don't have off switches on their portable media, minus the PSP.

You can also force sleep and change what the time before it enters sleep automatically is. Forcing sleep takes 1.5 seconds while holding PLAY/PAUSE button, I was wrong when I said center+menu, that's to reset it (turn it really off and reset it) just in case it freezes for what ever reason at all (happened once to me)

That is its off switch, as it says in the manual


			
				Apple said:
			
		

> Turn on iPod classic - Press any button.
> Turn off iPod classic - Press and hold Play/Pause


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## PeppermintRoo (Jan 18, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Touching any button at all while in sleep mode will take it out, and if you have it on HOLD (like any portable music player should have) you can't take it out, but taking it out of hold (switch on the top) it will automatically come out of sleep mode without pushing any buttons.



Ok, thanks for the information and in particular the link to the manual.  

So, I gather that the ipod classic does contain the functionality of an on-off-switch.  However, it's a two-part process involving the hold switch and play/pause button, and would seem to take about two seconds to "turn off" and half a second to "turn on."  (Assuming a half second reaction-time between flipping the hold switch and hitting a button.)

To me, this is an acceptable alternative.  It doesn't fully shut off, and it's more involved than flipping a switch, but it's a compromise for segmented use without waiting for startup times.  It also, as a bonus, is forgiving if you forget to "turn it off" by automatically entering sleep mode.  It's an assumption made by Apple that it's users will be "on-the-go" and won't be using the ipod in a single block session.

Following the link to the manual, I started looking into the TOS'es involved to figure out Apple's support of third party alternatives to Itunes (the only option that *nix users have.)

I have a lot more of them to through, but so far it seems that using third party utilities is not against the TOS.  However, for said utilities to be made, would require them to get a specific license from Apple itself (highly unlikely for open source.)  Any reverse engineering or use of Apple proprietary methods in the production of software is strictly prohibited by the TOS, and so I'm now fairly certain that all of the apps available for *nix are illegal.  (For the same reason that *nix mp3 codecs are illegal.)  However, legal burden seems to fall on the makers of said apps, not the users (so far.)

I have also noticed other interesting tid-bits:



			
				ipod_terms_and_conditions said:
			
		

> THE iPOD SOFTWARE AND iPOD SOFTWARE UPDATES ARE NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE iPOD SOFTWARE OR iPOD SOFTWARE UPDATES COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.


This just made me giggle.



			
				ipod_touch_terms_and_conditions said:
			
		

> You agree that Apple and its subsidiaries may collect and use technical and related information, including but not limited to information about your iPod touch, computer, system and application software, and peripherals...


I never like hearing things like this.  I know it's not personal information, but I still feel that technical specifications is personally valuable, and not something I like signing away to use a product.  I feel it should be volunteery, at minimum.



			
				ipod_touch_terms_and_conditions said:
			
		

> Apple and its partners may transmit, collect, maintain, process and use your location data, including the real-time geographic location of your iPod touch.


Ok, that shit scares me flat out.  It goes on to say that the, "location data is collected in a form that does not personally identify you. You may withdraw this consent at any time by not using the location-based features," but still.  That really, really makes me uncomfortable, especially because it does not propse any restriction as to what Apple can do with said information.


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## Skittle (Jan 19, 2009)

My mate bought me an iPod for my 16th birthday. I just care that it plays my music. I need a new MP3 player soon since this one is only 30GB. Though, I would hate to get a new one since this one is so sentimental.

I've never had problems with my iPod so yea. Occasionally freezing but meh, happens to everything. I seem to be lucky too. Vista has been good to me as well.


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## lilEmber (Jan 19, 2009)

PeppermintRoo said:
			
		

> Ok, thanks for the information and in particular the link to the manual.
> 
> So, I gather that the ipod classic does contain the functionality of an on-off-switch.  However, it's a two-part process involving the hold switch and play/pause button, and would seem to take about two seconds to "turn off" and half a second to "turn on."  (Assuming a half second reaction-time between flipping the hold switch and hitting a button.)


No, just flipping hold off will turn it back on.

And as for me, I used the hold button like... maybe twice for the two years I owned the iPod. I had a case to keep it clean, so I'd just turn off the music and usually close the case and put it in my pocket, or before placing it away putting it in sleep rather than waiting.



			
				PeppermintRoo said:
			
		

> Ok, that shit scares me flat out.  It goes on to say that the, "location data is collected in a form that does not personally identify you. You may withdraw this consent at any time by not using the location-based features," but still.  That really, really makes me uncomfortable, especially because it does not propse any restriction as to what Apple can do with said information.


It's wifi, it connects to the internet wirelessly, so your location is going to be tracked. It's good for several reasons, and only bad if you're paranoid because they're not going to hunt you down....


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