# Second Video card for S-Video out?



## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm currently using an Nvidia GeForce 9800GTX+ as my primary graphics card, but the S-Video port on it doesn't work (if it's even an s-video port). I happen to have an old spare ATI Radeon X700 with a working S-Video port and an open PCI-E x16 slot available.

Am I able to put this old ATI card in next to my main Nvidia card and use it soley as a video-output for a TV, without conflicting with the Nvidia card?

OSes of choice (dual-boot) are Vista x64 and Win7 RC1 x64.

I want to use the TV to watch video and older games that look better at their original low resolutions without any stretching or filtering.

If it does work, will I still be able to use the Nvidia card to process the video stream and then output it through the ATI card's S-video port? (not really a big deal since the old ATI card is more than sufficient for the low resolution tasks it will be given)


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## Lambzie (Dec 29, 2009)

From what I have been told the ATI card will not work because itâ€™s a ATI not a Nvidia (This is advice that gamers told me when I was doing research on making a car simulator)


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

Thinking about how to set it up, it seems pretty straight forward. Insert and install the drivers for the second card, and set one as my primary display adapter in the graphics properties within windows, and enable the other as a secondary display adapter. Obviously, I would have to have both sets of graphics drivers installed at the same time, and it's not like one will override and delete the other. (It might try to disable it though)

I guess the worst case scenario would be that the ATI card (being installed second) would be set as the new primary display device by Windows, and I would be greated by a blank screen fixable by plugging the monitor into the ATI card's DVI port instead of the nVidia card.


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## net-cat (Dec 29, 2009)

xcliber said:


> I'm currently using an Nvidia GeForce 9800GTX+ as my primary graphics card, but the S-Video port on it doesn't work (if it's even an s-video port).


It's probably a multi-use port that requires an adapter.



xcliber said:


> Am I able to put this old ATI card in next to my main Nvidia card and use it soley as a video-output for a TV, without conflicting with the Nvidia card?


That depends on your OS...



xcliber said:


> OSes of choice (dual-boot) are Vista x64 and Win7 RC1 x64.


... no.

Vista, you might be able to do it by force installing the XP x64 drivers. XP's display manager allowed for multiple display drivers, and it's still included in Vista. (You can use it at the expense of things like Aero and DX10.) Vista's display manager does not support multiple drivers. (Multiple video cards, yes. But they have to be the same driver.)

(And the multi-driver support in XP is weird. Really weird. Don't know about Win7. I'd imagine it's the same as Vista.)



xcliber said:


> If it does work, will I still be able to use the Nvidia card to process the video stream and then output it through the ATI card's S-video port?


No. Not ever.


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

Damnit! I also have 32-bit XP installed, but I screwed something up royally and need to reinstall it to make it functional again (My system is long overdue for a total wipe of all 3 OSes). But basically, what I'm trying to do _is_ possible in XP then?

Also, do you have any idea what that multifunctional port might be on the Nvidia Geforce 9800GTX+, or what adapter I would need to be able to use it and where I can get it?


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## net-cat (Dec 29, 2009)

xcliber said:


> Damnit! I also have 32-bit XP installed, but I screwed something up royally and need to reinstall it to make it functional again (My system is long overdue for a total wipe of all 3 OSes). But basically, what I'm trying to do _is_ possible in XP then?


Sort of. You can set it in dual-monitor mode, using S-Video as one of the monitors.



xcliber said:


> Also, do you have any idea what that multifunctional port might be on the Nvidia Geforce 9800GTX+, or what adapter I would need to be able to use it and where I can get it?


No. They are not standard and are continually changed to prevent you from being able to reuse accessories. (Even different cards with the same chipset have different multi-function ports.) If it didn't come with the adapter, you're probably out of luck.


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

If I rememeber correctly, it came with an R/G/B component adapter. I guess I'm outta luck with that one.

Are there any other solutions for connecting a TV to a computer to use as a secondary display? (usb adapters, etc.?)


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## Runefox (Dec 29, 2009)

Well, there are scanline converters, but they traditionally cost a pretty penny for what they do (I'm seeing some in around $40 online, though, but they probably won't be very nice-looking). The best thing to do would be to try and find whatever adapters came with the card and see if any of them have S-video hanging off; I think it's still fairly common to at least have S-video support in some shape or form. USB VGA adapters exist, but I'm not sure about USB to S-video - It looks like mostly what you'll find in that area are, again, scanline converters (which require you to be using VGA and plug it in between the PC and the monitor).

I suppose the other thing you could do is find an older PCI/PCI-E GeForce card with an actual S-video port and run that alongside your main, but that's also a bit of an expense.


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## net-cat (Dec 29, 2009)

xcliber said:


> If I rememeber correctly, it came with an R/G/B component adapter. I guess I'm outta luck with that one.


Does your TV have component? That runs at 480p...



xcliber said:


> Are there any other solutions for connecting a TV to a computer to use as a secondary display? (usb adapters, etc.?)


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158142


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

Here's a question: In what way does the TV out port on your video card 'not work'?  What results are you getting?


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

No, the TV in question doesn't even have an S-video port. I'm running the S-video cable to an adaptor that has S-video in (as well as all the other pretty Red, White, and Yellow ins and outs.), and from there goes by standard TV cable to the basic 24" CRT TV.

If it were an HD TV, I wouldn't even bother trying to connect my computer to it just to play old games and low resolution video.

I do have a VGA box (scanline converter as you put it) that does VGA to S-video/composite, but the picture quality is crap, like you said. I originally got it so that I could do away with the TV by connecting my PS2/Wii to my computer monitor (it has inputs and outputs for both).

Ninja edit:
I can plug the S-video cable into it (the S-video cable fits properly), but the computer doesn't detect a second display, even after restarting on all three OSes (when I tried it a while back while XP was still working). I even tried restarting the computer with just that cable connected, in an atempt to force it to use the only available display. The sreen doesn't even flicker. The computer simply doesn't detect the display.


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## net-cat (Dec 29, 2009)

There might be a "force TV detection" option tucked away someplace. I've got an ATI card in this system, though.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

ATi has a 'Force Detection' button, where even if load on the TV port isn't detected, it'll force it to activate and output over that port. Do the Nvidia drivers offer a similar feature?

Also, is the output cable you're using for the card the one that came with the card? Output dongles from different companies may fit in the ports but the pinouts may be different so they're not intercompatable.

Also, if this is a VIVO (Video In/Video Out) dongle, you may have it hooked up wrong and are trying to get video out from the video INPUT line.


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## net-cat (Dec 29, 2009)

I miss the old school Dell Latitude TV-out ports. You could plug a plain S-Video cable in with no adapter. The adapter for composite worked with any Dell laptop.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

net-cat said:


> I miss the old school Dell Latitude TV-out ports. You could plug a plain S-Video cable in with no adapter. The adapter for composite worked with any Dell laptop.


 
My Dell Inspiron does that, it has a Radeon 9000 with a 7 pin S-VIdeo port but 4pin S-video cables work out of the box.  Though not all S-Video->Composite adpators work right on it.  Uhh, I had a nividia one which when used on this laptop would only generate black and white.  I presume that while using the same pinout, what pins did what were different, so it was only getting the greyscale image and not correctly getting the color data off the pins it wanted so it just did black and white.  But in looking, his card has a 9pin port which can do all sorts of things, including I think VIVO.  I've really only seen 9pin ports on VIVO cards in my exprience.


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm pretty sure it's not a VIVO. And like you guys mentioned before it's probably not an S-video port at all, even though the cable fits.

I suppose an alternative method to all this would be to put both cards in the system and set up separate Windows installations for each video card. The ATI XP installation can be stricktly for the low-end video tasks that I intend to use it for (even though the card is perfectly capable of handling 1080P video), and the Nvidia installations (of XP, Vista, and 7) for everything else. XP is small enough that I can just install it to a small 10GB partition. I think I can spare an extra 10GB out of my 500GB HDD.


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## Runefox (Dec 29, 2009)

@xcliber: From what I'm reading, there actually is a cable that's supposed to have come with your card that should split off into S-Video and/or Composite, if it's not also hanging off the Component breakout cable. Either that, or there should be an option in the NVidia Control Panel (I haven't used it in years, and even then, I hated it compared to the old one) to force detection and use of the TV.

@net-cat: Ahh, yeah, my Radeon 9600 Pro was like that. I used to use it for that purpose, though it's surprisingly difficult to get that cable oriented by touch in comparison to PS/2 and other mini-DIN connectors.

@Ashes: Yeah, the 4-pin vs 7-pin S-video do carry different signals if I remember correctly.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

Runefox said:


> @Ashes: Yeah, the 4-pin vs 7-pin S-video do carry different signals if I remember correctly.


 
It seems to vary between Nvidia and ATi. I've found that ATi's 7pin ports use a pinout that matches an off the shelf s-video cable. However ATi's 9pin ports like on my Radeon X800 doesn't work with anything, it needs adaptor dongles and is even keyed so a 4pin or 7pin cable won't fit in or bend any pins. Of course the reason ATi uses a 7pin port is because instead of s-video you could use a component video adaptor that uses all 7 pins when engaged. Same on the 9pin but the 9pin does VIVO as well.

However I think the root of the issue here is incorrect usage of the TV port.


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

This is the card I have:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130416

I pulled the link out of my purchase history from newegg.
I need to take another look at it, but apparently, that IS an S-video port on my card.

I really hope my card isn't defective. I don't know if it's still under warrenty or not.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

There's no S-Video->Composite adaptor in it's photo of included parts, so where'd that come from?


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> There's no S-Video->Composite adaptor in it's photo of included parts, so where'd that come from?


 
The specifications tab.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

xcliber said:


> The specifications tab.


Uhh...  What?


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Uhh... What?


 
Just above the customer reviews section of the page, there is a link to the card's specs.

Under the "ports" portion, it says: HDTV / S-Video Out


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

xcliber said:


> Just above the customer reviews section of the page, there is a link to the card's specs.
> 
> Under the "ports" portion, it says: HDTV / S-Video Out


 
I asked about the ADAPTOR. . The cable you're using, THAT THING.


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> I asked about the ADAPTOR. . The cable you're using, THAT THING.


 
Oh. I was confused because I already mentioned that earlier. I'm running an S-Video cable directly from the video card to the S-video input on another device. (RF modulator or whatever) That device converts the S-video signal to a regular TV coax cable which runs to the TV.

I'm not using any sort of adapter.

When you said:


AshleyAshes said:


> There's no S-Video->Composite adaptor in it's photo of included parts, so where'd that come from?


I thought you were refering to where I found info about S-video support.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

What is this 'another device' that's converting S-Video to composite?


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> What is this 'another device' that's converting S-Video to composite?


 
An RF Modulator.

I know the RF Modulator works because I use it to connect my Wii to that TV via S-Video.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 29, 2009)

Wow, you're feeding S-Video into an RF adaptor to use it on a 24" TV?  How old is this TV that it doesn't have composite?


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## xcliber (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't know.  It's an Admiral. The only input it has is for cable TV (coax, i guess). It's not really old, it's just very standard. Basically, the RF modulator functions the same as a VCR.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2181628
^ This is the closest thing I could find to what I have that I'm running the S-Video cable into.


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## net-cat (Dec 30, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> My Dell Inspiron does that, it has a Radeon 9000 with a 7 pin S-VIdeo port but 4pin S-video cables work out of the box.





Runefox said:


> @net-cat: Ahh, yeah, my Radeon 9600 Pro was like that. I used to use it for that purpose, though it's surprisingly difficult to get that cable oriented by touch in comparison to PS/2 and other mini-DIN connectors.


Yeah, the Radeon 7500 in my Latitude C640 was the same way.



AshleyAshes said:


> Though not all S-Video->Composite adpators work right on it.  Uhh, I had a nividia one which when used on this laptop would only generate black and white.  I presume that while using the same pinout, what pins did what were different, so it was only getting the greyscale image and not correctly getting the color data off the pins it wanted so it just did black and white.  But in looking, his card has a 9pin port which can do all sorts of things, including I think VIVO.  I've really only seen 9pin ports on VIVO cards in my exprience.


I suspect it was actually a problem with the S-Video/composite adapter. There are two components to a NTSC signal, chroma and luminance. Normally, the two are modulated together in such a way that receivers that don't know about chroma (i/e: black and white) don't need to do anything special to ignore it. (That's why weak analog broadcasts would show up in black and white. Luminance is much stronger that chroma. The modern-day equivalent would be HD-Radio.)

This is all well and good, but it leads to poor color quality. To combat this they came up with S-Video, which separates the luminance and chroma onto different lines. The luminance signal isn't actually changed significantly from OTA and composite. In fact, it's pin compatible with composite. The chroma, however, since it no longer needs to be modulated into luminance, is significantly stronger than it is in composite and requires some special circuitry to modulate it back in.

Therefore, the cheap S-Video/composite adapters would simply hook luminance to the composite signal and call it a day. Good ones would take care of the chroma, as well.



Runefox said:


> @Ashes: Yeah, the 4-pin vs 7-pin S-video do carry different signals if I remember correctly.


It's an S-video port with extra pins. The extra pins carried a composite signal because it was cheaper to do that than it was to give everyone proper S-Video/composite adapters.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 30, 2009)

net-cat said:


> It's an S-video port with extra pins. The extra pins carried a composite signal because it was cheaper to do that than it was to give everyone proper S-Video/composite adapters.


 
You can also get 7pin component video adaptors for ATi cards.  The ports are multipurpose depending on what's connected to them.


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## xcliber (Dec 30, 2009)

OK, I managed to get some sort of signal throught the s-video port on my Nvidia card. The computer detects the generic TV as a second display when I plug in the S-video cable, and every 2 seconds, the TV flashes (like it's changing resolution), and from the brief flashes of picture, I can make out my desktop background (via extended desktop) on the TV screen, but I can't get it to stay on.

The video card detects the display and lets me set it up accordingly, (ntsc/pal, resolution, frequency, etc.) but I still can't get the picture to stay. It just flashes.

edit:
Also, I did find the adapters and stuff that came with the card. I have an RGB Component adapter that fits that 7-pin port on the card.


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## Runefox (Dec 30, 2009)

Ideally, you should set the TV to NTSC, 640x480 resolution, 30Hz interlace (if that option is available). I'm also reading that some S-Video to Composite converters result in a black/white picture (depending on the graphics card; Your card should have come with a converter). I've also been reading that NVidia's DualView doesn't work with S-Video out for whatever reason; You may need to set the output type to Clone. *I've ALSO been reading that if you use the Component video dongle that came with your card, plugging the composite cable into the blue connector on the dongle will result in a working display. Don't ask me why, I have no idea.*

Oh, and one more thing - Have you updated your drivers? I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet.

Frankly, I'm rather surprised at NVidia now. I wouldn't think TV out on their hardware/drivers would be this complicated.


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## xcliber (Dec 30, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Ideally, you should set the TV to NTSC, 640x480 resolution, 30Hz interlace (if that option is available). I'm also reading that some S-Video to Composite converters result in a black/white picture (depending on the graphics card; Your card should have come with a converter). I've also been reading that NVidia's DualView doesn't work with S-Video out for whatever reason; You may need to set the output type to Clone. *I've ALSO been reading that if you use the Component video dongle that came with your card, plugging the composite cable into the blue connector on the dongle will result in a working display. Don't ask me why, I have no idea.*
> 
> Oh, and one more thing - Have you updated your drivers? I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet.


 
I've tried forcing 640x480 at 30 Hz interlaced, but got the same results as any other configuration.

Using the blue port of the Component dongle is something I haven't tried yet. I'll give it a shot when I get home from work tonight.

And my video drivers are up to date.

If nothing else works, I think I might just get a scanline converter considering the TV isn't going to be used for any high quality video or text viewing anyway.


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## Runefox (Dec 30, 2009)

Reading around a bit more, I get the feeling that the blue connection might work, as ass-backwards as that sounds.  Let us know how it goes.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 30, 2009)

In looking at the pinouts, I don't think Nvidia does any form of composite output.  Only S-Video or Component output.  Where as ATI on SOME CARDS they do s-video and composite output simultaniously with a pinout that is incompatable with normal s-video cable pinouts and other cards that to s-video only.

So I'm pretty sure you won't get composite output from the component cables on a Nvidia card.

I think this is potentially an issue with the RF Modulator thingy, messing up with the autodetection of load on the TV port.  The best way would be to rule it out, use S-Video on something that natively takes s-video or use a simple s-video->composite adaptor.

ANd, on a personal note, for gods sake don't use RF for connections.  RF is shit and the larger the TV is the shittier it is.  What the hell kinda 24" TV doesn't have at -least- composite?  How old is this thing?


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## Runefox (Dec 30, 2009)

Actually Ashes, believe it or not, apparently 8800's and above actually do pop composite video over the blue. Apparently.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 30, 2009)

If the card puts out s-video and composite over more than four pins, then it's quite possible that the pinout also does't match a standard S-VIdeo card and what he needs is an adaptor meant for his card.

...I recall suggesting he needed an adaptor from nvidia pages ago. :/


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## Runefox (Dec 30, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> If the card puts out s-video and composite over more than four pins, then it's quite possible that the pinout also does't match a standard S-VIdeo card and what he needs is an adaptor meant for his card.
> 
> ...I recall suggesting he needed an adaptor from nvidia pages ago. :/



... Actually, no, the pinout on the card isn't compatible with S-Video, but the breakout cable for Component actually supposedly also provides Composite on the blue lead. ... For... Some reason.

One particular account of it goes like this.


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## xcliber (Dec 30, 2009)

It worked! :3

The blue component out doubles as a composite out. It worked perfectly. Thanks a ton Runefox. I don't think I would ever have come across such an interesting solution.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 30, 2009)

Now begs the question; Why does he have the component dongle for the card but not the s-video/composite dongle for the card?


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## Runefox (Dec 31, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Now begs the question; Why does he have the component dongle for the card but not the s-video/composite dongle for the card?



Because there isn't one - As I understand it, the card ships with only the component cable, which doubles as a composite cable on the blue wire.


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## hitokage (Dec 31, 2009)

@xcliber - Four words, craigslist free stuff classifieds - see here. If you watch your area (which is where I linked), and some of the surrounding areas you may be able to snag a newer TV that has S-video or even component video inputs that is at least the same size or larger then what you have now.

If you want, I can try to watch and maybe grab something for you. I've managed to get a hold of newer TVs, including one working CRT HDTV. I live a little north of Frederick, and not terribly far from Harrisburg.


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 31, 2009)

I only paid $90 for a 27" Sony Trinitron with component input.  And GOD DAMN is it the most beautiful SDTV picture.


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## xcliber (Dec 31, 2009)

hitokage said:


> @xcliber - Four words, craigslist free stuff classifieds - see here. If you watch your area (which is where I linked), and some of the surrounding areas you may be able to snag a newer TV that has S-video or even component video inputs that is at least the same size or larger then what you have now.
> 
> If you want, I can try to watch and maybe grab something for you. I've managed to get a hold of newer TVs, including one working CRT HDTV. I live a little north of Frederick, and not terribly far from Harrisburg.


It's just a short 1-2 hour trip down I-83 right? 

Thanks for the offer, but the point of connecting my computer to my TV was to be able to watch low resolution video and older games on a screen that has a low native resolution. A good chunk of my anime is recorded at 640x480 and sometimes lower. These low res videos look so much better and clearer on a standard def CRT TV than on an HD LCD screen. The TV itself is from maybe the mid to late '90s, so it's not like it's this old black and white, 13-channel dinosaur from the 50s.

I alread have a 22" 1680x1050 LCD computer monitor for modern games and HD video (and will be upgrading that to a 1920x1080, 24" soon).

Getting an HDTV would sortof defeat the purpose of connecting the computer to a standard def TV.

Edit:
OIC. I forgot that some of the most recent CRTs had HD component inputs for 480P. That would be a nice thing to have.


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## Runefox (Dec 31, 2009)

Actually, if your anime is low-resolution, whether or not it looks good on a monitor mainly depends on how well your player handles scaling. KMPlayer in particular has an amazing scaler (not enabled by default) that makes content in around 640x480 look quite good, though of course, it can never look that much better than it originally did - Scaling up basically just makes it smoother and more watchable on a higher-resolution monitor (like my 19" HDTV that runs 1440x900). Add in post-processing and a hint of warpsharp and it actually does start to look better at those higher resolutions.


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## xcliber (Dec 31, 2009)

I've tried filters and whatnot, but non of them seem to compare to watching it in its original TV resolution (no strechting, scaling or filtering required to make it look nice on a fullscreen 24"-28" inch [I'm not sure how big exactly, but it's considerably larger than my 22" monitor] display).

Edit:
Actually, nVidia's built-in Purevideo filters make a noticable difference in some cases.


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## hitokage (Jan 2, 2010)

Actually I would be coming up 15, and it's just a bit over an hour from what I recall. Although meeting someplace public about half-way would be preferred. Normally when I'm up that way it's to go to the car shows in Carlisle with my father.

What I was suggesting wasn't necessarily a HDTV, as those aren't extremely common, but regular SDTV's with component inputs come up in the DC and Baltimore areas fairly frequently (there was a 34" or 36" Sony yesterday).

You could also watch for a 19"+ CRT computer monitor, and get the real old school effect.

Is your current monitor widescreen or normal 4:3/5:4 (squarish/old style)? If your current monitor is widescreen that would be why it seems so much smaller then the TV, as the size of the screen is measured diagonally and widescreen has more width per inch in height - i.e. for a widescreen monitor for every inch tall it is about 1.6" (for 16:10) or 1.78" (for 16:9) wide. Regular monitors/TVs are 1.33" (for 4:3) wide for every inch tall, although there are some monitors that are 1.25" (5:4) for every inch tall.


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## xcliber (Jan 2, 2010)

Damn that carshow traffic! :V

Current monitor is a 22"-diagonal, widescreen, 16:10.
TV is 4:3. But it's bigger than my monitor in both width and height by several inches. I'm pretty sure it's a 27", I've just never measured.
The TV I've got is fine. The picture is clear/sharp enough that I can easily read the subtitles on my anime. I don't want a smaller screen either. All I wanted was a large screen to watch low-res video/games on without stretching or noticeable pixelation. (640x480 max resolution video. NES, Genesis, and PS1 emulation. etc.) My TV does it perfectly.


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