# Should I go Vista or wait for a Service Pack?



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jun 12, 2007)

Since XP had its problems until Service Pack 2 came, and it was still barely a protection.


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## DavidN (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm waiting indefinitely - I don't think it's worth moving up until at least a couple of service packs have come out and the initial problems have been smoothed over. (We can hope.) Moving up to Vista doesn't offer me any advantages at the moment.


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## net-cat (Jun 12, 2007)

If you're buying a new computer, go ahead and get Vista Business or Vista Ultimate. If you absolutely hate it, you can always exercise your downgrade rights and install XP Pro, XP Pro x64 or XP Tablet PC Edition. (Call Microsoft Licensing for details.) I've heard conflicting reports that Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium can be downgraded to XP Home and XP Media Center Edition, respectively, but I can't confirm or deny this.

If you have a computer with Windows 2000 or Windows XP and it's working for you, why fix what isn't broken?


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## Dragoneer (Jun 16, 2007)

Vista isn't bad, and the biggest problem is incompatible drivers from hardware companies. If you're buying a new PC Vista should be fine, with little to no worry about incompatibilities. Mind you, if it comes with a new PC, I'd say you may as well get it. I wouldn't recommend upgrading to it from XP for a while though.

I've got Vista Business running on three of my PCs and the all have their quirks, but overall work really well.


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## Ziba the lioness (Jun 16, 2007)

I have no experiences with Vista, but Id say you should wait till atleast a couple of service packs are out yeah. I have friends who tried vista and everyone had/have problems with it and one simply desided to return the pc to the store and demand getting xp instead. Also, viste does not work with sertain hardware I heard, like scanners etc etc. and it wont let you play games like second life etc either.


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## Aden (Jun 16, 2007)

I'll wait, but not for Vista. Word is the next version of Windows is 2 years out.


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## Meganutter (Jun 16, 2007)

(vista user)
correct, vista does work quite flawed on other computers. Hardware isnt up to the task and sometimes fails to get the drivers correct too.
if you have hardware released 2 years or more ago there is a possibility it wont have proper drivers (E.G. Manufacturer drivers).

If you get a new computer, make sure it is built for vista. My laptop is specially built for it and i cant seem why all the people rant about it. Sure some things wont woork 100% my way... but hey, XP did that too in the beginning remember.

The OS is stable. most security holes are patched, updates are weekly. Updates regard drivers and OS.

if you like the new look be sure to pack a beefy gfxcard. there are some versions that dont have this, its called windows aero. some videocards dont support it either, you can however force it but it may give endless loop of BSOD's (they are still blue)

Be sure to do a compatibility check (downloadable from microsoft site) if it shows ANY errors you should forget it. youll only end up bald with yer hair in yer hands. the errors make performance hell on your machine.

i hope i have informed you enough


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## net-cat (Jun 16, 2007)

Meganutter said:
			
		

> if you like the new look be sure to pack a beefy gfxcard. there are some versions that dont have this, its called windows aero. some videocards dont support it either, you can however force it but it may give endless loop of BSOD's (they are still blue)



To clarify the Aero thing:

It's included in all versions except for Starter and Home Basic.
It requires 1GB RAM.
If you have a non-integrated graphics card, it requires 128MB of video RAM.
It requires a DirectX 9 capable video card.

nVidia GeForce 6000 series or better.
nVidia GeForce 5200 or better. (FX series only)
ATi Radeon 9550 or better.
Intel GMA 900 (maybe 950?) or better.


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## ADF (Jun 17, 2007)

I have to question the reason in buying Vista at this point.

If you are going to put down money for something why are you doing it? What are you going to get out of it?

XP will pretty much do everything Vista does and hog less resources in the process; DirectX 10 isn't really here yet so there is no point in getting it for that, at least until a real DX10 game like Crysis or Alan Wake comes out. If it is for the interface then I would say you need to get your priorities straight; download a theme pack or something, no point in putting down several hundred bucks just to make your desktop look prettier.


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## Meganutter (Jun 17, 2007)

and getting it illegaly has another great NO on it... Microsoft somehow managed to decrease performance on illegal versions.
The aero thing isnt on all windows versions. Enterprise doesnt have it too
DX10 is there but not fantasticly, it wont even tell some apps its DirectX (backwards compatibility issue)
i got it, im happy with it... but i do advise people to wait just a bit and buy vista with new computers


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## Ron Overdrive (Jun 19, 2007)

I personally am gonna wait. I know many people who've downgraded back to XP from Vista because they didn't like how it performed. This is of course mainly a driver issue because the OS is still young. I'll wait till support has improved before switching over.


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## VictusDraconis (Jun 19, 2007)

i've tried vista for a while.... Unless you have a really awesome computer I would not recommend it. And the whole "requiring 512 MB of ram" is BS... you should have at least 2GB of RAM. Have fun playing games with Vista, though XD... and many peripheals aren't supported by Vista.

EDIT: Personally I hated it, and reformatted back to XP... If you want pure opinion...


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## Meganutter (Jun 19, 2007)

VictusDraconis said:
			
		

> i've tried vista for a while.... Unless you have a really awesome computer I would not recommend it. And the whole "requiring 512 MB of ram" is BS... you should have at least 2GB of RAM. Have fun playing games with Vista, though XD... and many peripheals aren't supported by Vista.
> 
> EDIT: Personally I hated it, and reformatted back to XP... If you want pure opinion...



i read from this post, youre quite the intensive gamer... okay, video drivers are Beta (some even Alpha) 512 MB Ram is sufficient for home and office use (internet, Wordprocessing Email) if you like to do some more enhanced stuff you should consider more RAM
playing games with vista:
vista has a new as a friend called "steel underpants" so nobody can rape it (so they think), games have to be set to run in administrator mode (brings up annoying pop-up you can just click away) and youll be just fine running the game. The compatibility mode has been greatly enhanced too so you can always turn on that option too.

but DO note this... Vista relies on specially designed hardware (hardware that was released late 2006 and in 2007) else you have bad performance + risk of not supported hardware


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## Aikon (Jun 19, 2007)

Vista is a good upgrade over XP.  If I had to go back and rethink my decision to upgrade, I'd probably still do it, but I wouldn't get the Ultimate edition like I did.  We haven't had a solid "extra" in months, and so far the only good useful one is Dreamscene which is still slow and buggy.  Nonetheless, for what it is, an OS, it's much more stable than XP and even XP was fairly stable.  It does have its "issues", but most are minor.  

I don't think I could ever go back to XP again, the interface in Vista may be subjective but I love it.  I still think it's the best out there on the market right now.  

Compatibility seems to be the biggest issue right now involving Vista.  My printer, scanner, and camera are running off Vista's basic drivers because no one wants to upgrade old drivers (can't blame them, really).  But mind you, the newest of the bunch is my scanner and it's just over 3 years old, a HP Scanjet 4600.

I don't think a Service Pack is going to do much on the end user experience.  Vista so far has proven to be a safe and secure OS, again to reiterate, so far.  Patches are far less frequent in Vista than in XP and so far only a few have been severe enough to absolutely need it, aside from the monthly Defender definitions which I always appreciate MS being on toe about.

If you're having trouble with XP and have fairly recent hardware, I'd say do it now.  Otherwise, unless you have the cash or tolerance of relying on Vista's basic drivers, I'd wait.  That's my opinion.


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## Starburst (Jun 22, 2007)

VictusDraconis said:
			
		

> i've tried vista for a while.... Unless you have a really awesome computer I would not recommend it.* And the whole "requiring 512 MB of ram" is BS... you should have at least 2GB of RAM.* Have fun playing games with Vista, though XD... and many peripheals aren't supported by Vista.
> 
> EDIT: Personally I hated it, and reformatted back to XP... If you want pure opinion...



Now, that's a lie.  I'm running Vista with 1 gig of RAM and I can run Neverwinter Nights with full detail and everything perfectly.

Personally, I like vista.  The compatability thing gets on my nerves, but most of the programs I use are compatable anyway.


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## net-cat (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm inclined to agree with that. Although I'd say 1GB is the minimum. Every Vista Basic machine I've ever seen with 512MB was slow as hell. Even when you give it the requisite five minutes after logging in to finish starting all the services. (Although, like Windows XP with 256MB RAM, you can probably get away with it if you install the operating system yourself so it doesn't have all the bloatware that computer manufacturers include in their systems.)


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## Ron Overdrive (Jun 22, 2007)

I used Vista RTM back when it was released. And I agree, unless you have purchased/built a computer thats no more then a year old you're gonna see performance issues. Mainly because it was designed on newer hardware with limited legacy support and most drivers as mentioned are still in alpha/beta. But the simple fact remains Vista is still young and still needs to grow up a bit before it will be widely accepted. Many people (myself included) downgraded back to XP for various reasons. Mine being performance issues and poor driver support for my graphics & sound cards. Personally I'll wait till 2008 when drivers finally start performing as good as their XP counter parts and when I have a new computer.


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## HaTcH (Jun 22, 2007)

I've noticed if you try to configure a system at an OEM website, they tell you the recommended amount of RAM for Vista is 2GB. (But then offer you the choice of 512 or a gig...)

So personally, if you were going for a new computer, get one of the remaining ones running XP. Dell for example is now selling 3 desktop systems and 3 laptops that run XP.. You could also ditch Microsoft all together, and go with an Open Source machine.. But well, if you're a gamer, you'd better stick with MS for a while.

The other thing with Vista is, a lot of people were using XP first, and then were given the 'Vista Upgrade' to update their computer. From what I've heard the update is crap, as its just a patched version of XP, so you're better off getting Vista straight up.


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## fastturtle (Jun 22, 2007)

I just finished a three week test of Vista x32 and although it was fairly decent, I found it offered no compelling reason to upgrade and if you're even considering x64 Vista, stay away from that until SP1 has been released. I couldn't get it off my system fast enough after the problems it gave me on a brand new C2D dual core with 4 gigs of ram. Simply put, it's unusable as yet and the cpu loading will drive you nuts (+40) all the time. Hate to say it but MS really screwed up there.

Now as to the gaming support, MS lied through there teeth about no 16bit support being in vista as I managed to instlall SimCity2K, Total Annihlation, both of which are 16 bit, win95 installers. I even managed to somehow crash the 16bit support and got an error message about no more 16bit memory spaces available on x32. So yes Vista seems to work much better if you've got latest/greatest hardware. Even Aero is pretty cool and I was running it on the new Intel GMA x3000 GPU (965 chipset). Nice but I rarely like eye-candy unless it actually improves things and Aero simply doesn't offer enough improvement over XP for me.


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## net-cat (Jun 22, 2007)

I already responded to these points here. But to summarize:


I know plenty of people, including myself, who have successfully installed and used x64.
Microsoft actually said that x86 would support 16-bit and that x64 would not. (Same as it was in XP.)


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## HaTcH (Jun 22, 2007)

If it's any consolation, the Linux world is a bit stagnant on 64 bit or multiple processor support. For example, 64bit versions of Linux are still having issues with running 32bit versions of drivers and such, and even power management (rampantly a problem on laptops).

So really, is there a need for 64bit support? Unless you're doing serious number crunching...

x86 machines are capable of running 32bit versions of operating systems just fine. So if you're having issues with 64bit Vista, (or you'd like to avoid problems) just go for the 32bit version. You won't be missing out on much. 


... Not yet of course. I'm sure they said the same thing when they switched from 16bit to 32bit...


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## net-cat (Jun 22, 2007)

True dat. I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but 32-bit support in x64 Linux is abysmal compared to 32-bit support in x64 Windows. (Why can't I easily install the 32-bit Firefox in Xubuntu x64? Why does libdvdcss2 not compile on Xubuntu x64?)

I've been using XP x64 on my computer because I've been doing a lot of VMWare and XviD work recently. And I've got 4GB of RAM. XP tops out at 3-3.5GB.


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## CyberFoxx (Jun 23, 2007)

I've been running Gentoo AMD64 for a couple weeks now, and I have yet to have any problems with 32-bit support. 32-bit Flash works in 64-bit Firefox using nspluginwrapper and I can run Win32 apps with Wine with no problem.

I honestly cannot see any reason at all to install Vista on my comp. I admit that I do have a small XP Pro Corp partition, just so I can play Guild Wars. But that'll get removed once I get either a 512MB or a 1GB DIMM. Trying to run Guild Wars under Wine with only 512MB of RAM causes alot of swapping.


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## HaTcH (Jun 23, 2007)

I ran Gentoo on my laptop for a while, which is an AMD64. At that point (about a year or so ago) there was no pretty installer for gentoo, and you'd have to sit at a terminal screen for hours typing commands and having stuff compile. Some of my friends were like.. dude, why the hell are you still using Gentoo??

At that point, it was because of KDE, which came on the Gentoo LiveCDs by default. And I got used to/liked KDE. So Gnome with Ubuntu was like.. feh...

Then I found Kubuntu and was like.. Gentoo? You are the weakest link... good bye! The installer for Kubuntu found all my hardware, did all the configuration I needed, installed important programs (like Firefox or OpenOffice, without compiling them!!). But I had similar issues with graphics card drivers and power management under the 64 bit linux. So, taking some advice from forum users I went 32bit. Works great!


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## net-cat (Jun 23, 2007)

nspluginwrapper, eh? I'll give that a shot next time I'm at work booted into Linux. (It's been known to happen from time to time...)

But for me to even consider using Linux at home, DVD playback is an absolute must.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 23, 2007)

I have to admin, Vista really impressed me the other day. I've been getting BSODs with my Tablet PC in Vista on occasion, and it's frustrated to me to no end. I got one the other day, and my laptop happened to be connected to the internet for a change.

When Vista came up, it reported that "Vista crashed due to an unrecoverable error in the BIOS. There is a BIOS update available from Toshiba to resolve the issue." Vista provided links, references and explanations for every detail of the crash, and the fix it provided? Worked.

I've never seen an OS go "Hey, I crashed, but I found the solution for you! Here's the fix"


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## net-cat (Jun 23, 2007)

Oh, wow. The case for upgrading my Tablet PC to Vista keeps getting stronger...


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## HaTcH (Jun 23, 2007)

I've seen XP do that once in a blue moon. If it Blue Screens, it will do a memory dump or something... and then when your computer reboots, it will do the whole, "Send Error Report?" thing. If MS has documented the error previously, it will open your browser to a page that tells you whats wrong, usually a driver or a piece of hardware doing something it's not supposed to.

But a BIOS error causing an issue in windows? I thought after boot, the BIOS went basically dormant..

Oh wait.. no.. that makes sense actually, never mind 

@net-cat: As far as I know, Linux is fully capable of playing DVDs.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 23, 2007)

net-cat said:
			
		

> Oh, wow. The case for upgrading my Tablet PC to Vista keeps getting stronger...


Windows Vista is made for Tablet PCs. XP Tablet Edition is ok, but the tablet function were added on whereas in Vista they're built in from the start.

I'd recommend getting a cheap OEM copy of Vista Home Premium or Business from Newegg if you're going to the Vista route. Don't even bother with an "upgrade" edition.

Just be sure and download all of your drivers before installing it and putting them on a thumbdrive. Vista is the single easiest and fastest OS install you will ever perform in you life and will get working from the get go, but those drivers will really make it shine.

My Toshiba Tecra M-7 can't handle Aero very well with its Quadro NV110 card, but the default skin in Vista is actually rather nice in and of itself.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 23, 2007)

HaTcH said:
			
		

> But a BIOS error causing an issue in windows? I thought after boot, the BIOS went basically dormant..


I think it had to do with the BIOS' function for memory and/or HD management. Either way, Vista handled it majestically. It didn't take me to a "Knowledge Base" article on Microsoft's site (which, even as an IT tech, kill me to read).

It had it all built into Vista, which is nice.

Frankly, if you're gamer, I say stick with XP. Tablet PC, Vista is a must. Office applications, uh... screw it, Windows 95 is still all you need to type a letter, but I guess Vista can do that, too. Just without Clippy.


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## CyberFoxx (Jun 23, 2007)

net-cat said:
			
		

> nspluginwrapper, eh? I'll give that a shot next time I'm at work booted into Linux. (It's been known to happen from time to time...)
> 
> But for me to even consider using Linux at home, DVD playback is an absolute must.



I've yet to have a problem with DVD playback in Gentoo AMD64, both Xine and mplayer play DVDs perfectly. Mind you, the experimental dvdnav interface for mplayer is still buggy.

Here's the version of libdvdcss I got installed:

```
~ $ eix -I libdvdcss
[I] media-libs/libdvdcss
     Available versions:  (1.2)  1.2.9 (~)1.2.9-r1
     Installed versions:  1.2.9-r1(1.2)(03:54:26 PM 06/06/2007)(-doc)
     Homepage:            http://developers.videolan.org/libdvdcss/
     Description:         A portable abstraction library for DVD decryption
```


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## HaTcH (Jun 23, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> It didn't take me to a "Knowledge Base" article on Microsoft's site (which, even as an IT tech, kill me to read).



Being a developer, I know how Microsoft's knowledge bases are, and the night mare that is the MSDN. I can relate. Google <error code> FTW!


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## Dragoneer (Jun 23, 2007)

HaTcH said:
			
		

> Being a developer, I know how Microsoft's knowledge bases are, and the night mare that is the MSDN. I can relate. Google <error code> FTW!


Working in the tech deparment in a gub'ment facility, trust me, google is our number one research tool we have here for problem solving. 

"PC Load Letter? _WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN!?_"


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## HaTcH (Jun 23, 2007)

Of course, mighty google is defeated by the grand daddy of all error messages...

123-093-205-30943-50964-0659456.....
Segmentation Fault

Translation: Haha!


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## net-cat (Jun 23, 2007)

Preyfar said:
			
		

> Windows Vista is made for Tablet PCs. XP Tablet Edition is ok, but the tablet function were added on whereas in Vista they're built in from the start.
> 
> I'd recommend getting a cheap OEM copy of Vista Home Premium or Business from Newegg if you're going to the Vista route. Don't even bother with an "upgrade" edition.


I actually got the $90 academic version of Business from my school. But yeah. My next choice was going to be NewEgg.




			
				Preyfar said:
			
		

> Just be sure and download all of your drivers before installing it and putting them on a thumbdrive. Vista is the single easiest and fastest OS install you will ever perform in you life and will get working from the get go, but those drivers will really make it shine.
> 
> My Toshiba Tecra M-7 can't handle Aero very well with its Quadro NV110 card, but the default skin in Vista is actually rather nice in and of itself.


Actually, I played around with the Beta and RC releases so I have a good idea of what to expect, there. I have an X1400 Mobility which can do Aero, but I imagine that the extra CPU and GPU needed for Aero will kill my battery life.



			
				CyberFoxx said:
			
		

> I've yet to have a problem with DVD playback in Gentoo AMD64, both Xine and mplayer play DVDs perfectly. Mind you, the experimental dvdnav interface for mplayer is still buggy.



I'll mess around with it when I find the time. But, quite frankly, I don't have the time to mess with this stuff.



			
				HaTcH said:
			
		

> Preyfar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funny thing about Microsoft knowledge bases is that they're usually right. Assuming you can find the right one. Finding the right one, on the other hand, is a pain in the ass.


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## Dragoneer (Jun 23, 2007)

net-cat said:
			
		

> Funny thing about Microsoft knowledge bases is that they're usually right. Assuming you can find the right one. Finding the right one, on the other hand, is a pain in the ass.


They're usually right, but finding the right KB entry is like trying to find a single store at the State Fair that adheres to health code standards.


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## net-cat (Jun 23, 2007)

It's worse than trying to find a needle in a haystack. It's more like looking for a specific needle in a needle stack.


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