# Call out to artists: Demand for replacement to OC 1.1 and network streaming?



## OnekiNekai (Jan 20, 2012)

Hey all,

I understand OpenCanvas 1 used to be popular because of its "feel" and network streaming support. A lot of artists moved on to SAI which appears to have not been updated in a while either.

Is there substantial interest among you arty types for a replacement to OpenCanvas 1? Something that has network streaming, better reliability and chat support along with more features.

I need to know that there's substantial interest because I'm doing it for free and I'm not a programmer by trade. I hate it more than any other aspect of IT except phone support. I offer only because no one else has ever taken up the torch. As such don't expect to magically fart it out in a month.

Thoughts?


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 20, 2012)

I think there is, but the thing is if you're passionate enough to try it out, do that first then ask for beta testers than worry about the response. I don't think anyone is going to expect it magically out and while I know you hate it - do what you can first then let people know? People like trying out new programs. Having something that can be tested you'll get a lot of feedback.

After all, people have tried Mypaint, Muro, Gimp, Artweaver, Dogwaffle and other programs out there ...because they were out there and people gave feedback.


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## RTDragon (Jan 20, 2012)

Actually the old OC is still popular have you also tried the oc_server considering it's quite popular. It's still used to this day. And i've tried SAI and while it's had some pros there are also some things i've found that are major disadvantages.


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## Kurasuki (Jan 20, 2012)

I wouldn't have a problem if the old OC actually WORKED on my computer. As it stands now I have to change my monitor settings every single time I want to use it, it absolutely refuses to work with my tablet (which requires a duel screen option to use because it's a cintiq) If I want to use it I have to set my drawing tablet as my main and only monitor, which is a pain in the butt because there's several steps I have to go through to do that, and when I change it back many of my size, colour, resolution, monitor order and control, text and icon size settings and desktop are messed up, so I have to keep re-inputting in the information in again and again, every time I want to use it. So now I rarely touch the program unless my little sis asks me to draw with her, cause I can't say no to her. I really miss the network streaming features, it was so much fun just randomly drawing with friends online.

I honestly don't know why they removed the network features from their upgraded versions, it was the best thing about it, and sadly I have yet to find another network drawing program to replace it. There are some websites that you can do network drawings on but they do not support the full functionality of my tablet, and because they are based in a web browser I can't set the tablets quick keys to them which makes drawing with the very frustrating.


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## OnekiNekai (Jan 20, 2012)

RTDragon said:


> Actually the old OC is still popular have you also tried the oc_server considering it's quite popular. It's still used to this day. And i've tried SAI and while it's had some pros there are also some things i've found that are major disadvantages.



Yeah, but the reason I raise the issue is that the old openCanvas is just that: Old. I don't know if it's an issue specific to Windows 7 x64 or new OSs in general but as a client ordering commissions OC is really annoying.

- It will randomly drop connection and require a full replay on reconnect.
- You cannot skip event replay.
- It randomly quits drawing only to burst at a later point.
- It only draws when it's the foreground app: If I switch to something else OC has to catch up.
- Sometimes oC totally shits the bed and creates a zombie process. I've had to log out and back in to start it again.
- oC 1 has very few features.
- oC is old. I'm rather surprised that an app written for the Win9x era works as well as it does in 64 bit Windows 7. Who's to say what Windows 8 will bring?

While it would probably take me nearly a year to even match oC 1.1's features it will still be the start of something more up to date with the same core features.

- You would be able to use Windows, Linux or OSX (Much <3 to RealBASIC's cross-platform compiler & IDE)
- It would operate more reliably in modern environments.
- You could bitch directly at me if something didn't work like you expected.
- Free & Open Sourced release versions.

Before you ask: Why don't I just do it and see what people think? It'll cost me a lot of time and a lot of (relatively speaking) money for me to do this. If there's no demand I'm not even bothering. =P


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 20, 2012)

If you have a Cintiq as another monitor there is no help.
But for OC to work on dual monitors, you have to delete all of your wacom preferences, set OC onto the primary monitor


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 20, 2012)

OnekiNekai said:


> Before you ask: Why don't I just do it and see what people think? It'll cost me a lot of time and a lot of (relatively speaking) money for me to do this. If there's no demand I'm not even bothering. =P



I'm sorry but that's the risk. If I post up a picture it costs me time and money too. I don't ask "hey should I draw this or not waste my time if there's no interest" I just simply do it. If I gain people who can give me feedback on how to improve more power. If I get an audience, it's also cool. But that's kinda how it is.

I wouldn't want to wait around seeing if someone is doing it just because I say "ok" Other people who created drawing apps for free have encountered the same problem. They just went forward.


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## OnekiNekai (Jan 20, 2012)

I understand your point but comparing artwork with an application for producing artwork isn't a good comparison.

To develop an application I have to drop $300 on the IDE plus recurring license renewals. Unless artists out there are going to start gifting me expensive tablets once I reach the point to add tablet support I'll also have to shell out bucks for several of them to make sure functionality works as expected across makes and models. This doesn't even count the months long initial time investment plus continuing support. It also doesn't count that, unlike art for you, programming is not at all fun for me. There are other things I would rather do but I'd like to contribute something useful and desirable.

Then, look at it from a business perspective. Most software development houses and indie developers don't invest in something and hope it turns out well: They see if there is a market BEFORE making the investment.

I honestly had no idea it would be this hard getting an answer from a Yes or No question: "Would you like to see an OpenCanvas replacement?"


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## Kurasuki (Jan 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> If you have a Cintiq as another monitor there is no help.
> But for OC to work on dual monitors, you have to delete all of your wacom preferences, set OC onto the primary monitor



I've tried that before when it was suggested in a help thread I asked about it in, it still does not work. It will only work if the cintiq is the only registered monitor.


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## Zydala (Jan 20, 2012)

Most professional illustrations (covers, article illustrations, etc) are in the thousands of dollars, so it's a fair comparison I'd say.

If it's not going to be fun or you're not actually invested in it, don't do it.

The truth is I'd be interested but not if the software is mediocre, which is why I'd want to try something first - even if it's just a basic test. Even if you got 100 "yes please do!!" I bet you only two would actually go back and try out your program. And actually, indie game developers actually go and DO just make what they're passionate about most of the time and let it go into the wild - at least a lot of them do. They go "hey, what do we REALLY want to make and how do we get people to REALLY want to play it?" That's what's unique about the indie game industry as opposed to other major developers. And what makes Minecraft and Bastion and VVVVV and Braid so interesting - you feel the people's passion in it.

So if you don't want to actually make this... I propose it might not be worth your time.

EDIT: And I just want to add that you shouldn't necessarily just use us as your only measuring stick; if you're not alreafy, visit some larger, more populated tech and digital art forums and ask there too.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 20, 2012)

Kurasuki said:


> I've tried that before when it was suggested in a help thread I asked about it in, it still does not work. It will only work if the cintiq is the only registered monitor.



Right, I said that there is no help for the Cintiq in the post you quoted XD But OC can work under dual regular monitors.


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## Littlerock (Jan 20, 2012)

To be perfectly honest, I'm quite happy with what OC 1.1 has to offer, even for it's age. The only gripe I have against it is it's lack of saving a file in .png, and there's ways around this anyway.

However, I'm no pro.


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## Kurasuki (Jan 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Right, I said that there is no help for the Cintiq in the post you quoted XD But OC can work under dual regular monitors.



Very sorry, miss-read that as "There is help if you have Cintiq as another monitor" had to re-read that like 6 times to get it right ^^;;;


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## Schecter (Jan 20, 2012)

OnekiNekai said:


> I understand your point but comparing artwork with an application for producing artwork isn't a good comparison.
> 
> To develop an application I have to drop $300 on the IDE plus recurring license renewals. Unless artists out there are going to start gifting me expensive tablets once I reach the point to add tablet support I'll also have to shell out bucks for several of them to make sure functionality works as expected across makes and models. This doesn't even count the months long initial time investment plus continuing support. It also doesn't count that, unlike art for you, programming is not at all fun for me. There are other things I would rather do but I'd like to contribute something useful and desirable.
> 
> ...



Depends on what language ur using, eclipse IDE is free for Java,C,C++. Eclipse is what we use at the university and it's superb!
Devloping applications like this usually takes teams of programmers months and months to make, I hope ur not biting off more then you can chew >.<

Are you going to be starting from scratch, or is OC openSource, or using an SDK?

Anyways I could help, at least from the programming aspect. =D


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## OnekiNekai (Jan 21, 2012)

Schecter said:


> Depends on what language ur using, eclipse IDE is free for Java,C,C++. Eclipse is what we use at the university and it's superb!
> Devloping applications like this usually takes teams of programmers months and months to make, I hope ur not biting off more then you can chew >.<
> 
> Are you going to be starting from scratch, or is OC openSource, or using an SDK?
> ...



It's not open source. It would have to be from scratch and it would be written in RealBASIC. Option two would be Visual Studio Express C# and using C# but RealBASIC is sufficient for the job.

Honestly it's not looking like it'll happen. I'm getting either no feedback or negative feedback.


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## Schecter (Jan 21, 2012)

OnekiNekai said:


> It's not open source. It would have to be from scratch and it would be written in RealBASIC. Option two would be Visual Studio Express C# and using C# but RealBASIC is sufficient for the job.
> 
> Honestly it's not looking like it'll happen. I'm getting either no feedback or negative feedback.



I think u just did Urself a huge favor XD

And ewwwwwwwwwww realBasic


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