# Do anthros make a game more fun? IMO, they do.



## Baalf (Oct 30, 2017)

Being an avid gamer, I play mostly fighting games, but I love other genres as well. Lots of RPGs, especially monster collecting games. I play a few platforming games, too. I have a hidden love for pinball as well. And I find a lot of the games I play have anthro playables. Not just anthros, but non-humans in general, and I love this games. But is part of the reason I have so much fun with them because... they don't star humans?

Yes, it is. I feel like a big requirement in a game for me is, honestly, a likeable protagonist. If I like the protagonist, I tend to have more fun than games where I like the VILLAINS, but really dislike the protagonist and the goodguys. When the game has a badass villain, but a lame hero, then it makes me NOT want to fight him with that hero. And, honestly, non-humans are cool. Humans are bland and overused, so playing as something else is more interesting. I also play vids to escape from some of realities burdens, and honestly one big thing I play vids to get away from is, well,  humans. I especially hate seeing games where humans are treated as the absolute good: meaning only humans are allowed to be goodguys and all other life, including inoccuous animals like bunnies or even ENDANGERED animals like elephants and polar bears, are evil creatures who only exist to destroy. Misanthropic/animal lover villains and a main goal where you ONLY have to save the human race and all life can go **** itself put me further into that uncomfortable area I play games to get away from. With that in mind, playing as an anthropomorphic lizard or bear or such takes me away from reality: where it's not just about humans. There's other life that co-exists in a fantasy world. This kind of stuff warms my heart when I play it.

So, in a nutshell, anthro stars/non-human stars make the game more warm and charming for me, and that's why they effect the gameplay for me, and why I search for anthro games in general. If anyone knows any good games staring anthros, don't be afraid to post them here.


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## Stratelier (Oct 30, 2017)

Games with anthropomorphic characters are, almost as a rule, the minority -- the genre simply isn't as crowded.

That being said, an anthropomorphic cast doesn't immediately make a game more "fun" or engaging -- the game as a whole should be that already.  (Which isn't to say I kept Red XIII on my team a lot more often than anyone else in FF7 for reasons other than because he's virtually the only non-human party member in the _entire franchise_.)  Sly Cooper would have still been as _mechanically_ fun (as a platform game with light stealth elements) with an ordinary human cast, and Star Fox would too.  But the anthropomorphic cast is part of what makes it memorable.

Now games where the character has gameplay based on their non-human cast members, those are types of games that couldn't exist otherwise.  Like the original Spyro the Dragon...


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## Yakamaru (Oct 30, 2017)

Having an anthropomorphic character just to have it is IMO dumb. It kind of needs to have some sort of connection with the lore of the game.


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## Baalf (Oct 31, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Having an anthropomorphic character just to have it is IMO dumb. It kind of needs to have some sort of connection with the lore of the game.



I feel like there's a lot of creative ideas for games and media that could be created if we just looked past humans. I feel like a lot of the same ideas are being recycled over and over because of this, to an extent.


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## ACaracalFromWork (Oct 31, 2017)

because the normies think furries are gross and won't play a game with furries, that's the problem best you can do is elfs.
or have a game like skyrim where you can choose your race then poeple dont complain.


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## Simo (Nov 1, 2017)

Huh, I don't play video games, really, and I guess one main reason is that they aren't cute enough, and seem to have gotten too realistic and gory? I like cute animals and simpler, older games, Sonic, Pocky & Rocky, and I can sort of envision games I might like, but I can't say I've really heard of them. But something that doesn't have any of those narrative/talking sections, like films, and just action and exploring, to be certain, and also, perhaps a bit abstract? The game Bendy and The Ink Machine looks sorta cute, as does that Cuphead game folks talk about a lot now, but never played them, don't have the right system. I think if more games existed where I liked the graphic stle, and that also had more cute animals, I'd get more into gaming. But for me, games will orcs and trolls and such just look kinda ugly? My housemate played WoW some years back, and I was always thinking: Gross! I don't wanna be ANY of those things!!!!!

Oh, I did see a game, Punky Skunk, that I want:


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## CarbonCoal (Nov 4, 2017)

The protagonist's species doesn't automatically decide the quality of the game. Anthro protags are cute and some of my favorite video game characters happen to be animals but I don't like them because they're animals, I like them for their personalities. I find a game fun depending on if it has good gameplay, a good story and is just overall well designed of course. I would like it if there were more games with animals as the main characters but it's not everything and it doesn't make or break a game's enjoyment for me.


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## Baalf (Nov 7, 2017)

Wolfrayne90 said:


> This is also a good point, nowadays everyone knows what furries are and devs might want to steer clear of this because of the "ew furries" thing... sad really.



I thought that died down over the years, but it feels like the bias is coming back.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 7, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> I thought that died down over the years, but it feels like the bias is coming back.


It's not bias. When you make a game you aim for as big an audience as possible. It's basic marketing.

Compared to the general public, Furries are at best 0.1-1% of the population in the US and Europe combined. Marketing a game towards such a small potential audience/customers can and will screw your game company over.

The Furry fandom can pretty much be considered a very small niche market.


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## Pipistrele (Nov 7, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> I feel like there's a lot of creative ideas for games and media that could be created if we just looked past humans. I feel like a lot of the same ideas are being recycled over and over because of this, to an extent.


Sure, but it's just one particular kind of stories or genres. It's like saying "Swordfighting makes a game more fun" - it kinda is, but now when the game in question is a military shooter or something else where swordfighting is the last thing you can think of as a mechanic. Same with anthros - it's not like Half-Life 2 or Doom would instantly become better if you apply anthros to them (in fact, they would get kinda dumber if you do that.)


Wolfrayne90 said:


> This is also a good point, nowadays everyone knows what furries are and devs might want to steer clear of this because of the "ew furries" thing... sad really.


Eeeeeh, you know, there's stuff like Undertale and Dust: An Elysian Tail, two highly-acclaimed indie games with characters consisting mostly of anthros. I don't even want to mention The Elder Scrolls, with its cats and reptiles, or XCOM-2, with "snek waifu" aliens being one of the most notable and fan-appreciated features. Speaking shortly, the "devs don't put anthros in games because players don't like them" argument is a nonsense.


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## Baalf (Nov 7, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> It's not bias. When you make a game you aim for as big an audience as possible. It's basic marketing.
> 
> Compared to the general public, Furries are at best 0.1-1% of the population in the US and Europe combined. Marketing a game towards such a small potential audience/customers can and will screw your game company over.
> 
> The Furry fandom can pretty much be considered a very small niche market.



I have one big problem with this theory: It basically assumes only furries will play a game with anthros in it. It's possible to make a game with anthro heroes that will also appeal to a more broad audience, or at least to those who don't automatically hate a game because another creature is portrayed as good besides humans.



Pipistrele said:


> it's not like Half-Life 2 or Doom would instantly become better if you apply anthros to them (in fact, they would get kinda dumber if you do that.)



If I liked first-person-shooter's, I'd disagree. I mean, maybe adding a cartoon animal to a realistic FPS game wouldn't work, but adding one to a FPS game within it's own environment might.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 7, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> I have one big problem with this theory: It basically assumes only furries will play a game with anthros in it. It's possible to make a game with anthro heroes that will also appeal to a more broad audience, or at least to those who don't automatically hate a game because another creature is portrayed as good besides humans.


It's basic marketing. Just because you cater/market your product towards a specific demographic doesn't necessarily mean everyone in that demographic will buy it nor does it mean everyone outside of that demographic won't buy. Marketing towards the biggest and more generic audience is the best way to gain an audience.

What demographic(s) is your game made for? Furry is a very specific niche demographic and a rather small one at that. You'd be hard pressed at all to gain much of an out-of-Furry fandom following when your product may only appeal to that small demographic. And just because you cater to a specific group/demographic, it's not guaranteed that they will actually like it. Gamers are often picky about the quality of their games. And if the quality is sub-par, you'll get your ass handed to you.

There's a reason games such as Skyrim, WoW, CoD and other popular games are as popular as they are: They aren't niche games made for any specific demographic. Whereas Dust: An Elysian Tail pretty much have a lot of Furries for the main part as players. Good quality products will attract people from any demographic, doesn't matter what it is.


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## Baalf (Nov 7, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Good quality products will attract people from any demographic, doesn't matter what it is.



Which kind of undermines your point. If the quality is good, then people will play it, even if it has furries.

That being said, there is a little bit of bias, but I feel like it has more to do with humans becoming narcissistic about their own species rather than "Furries!? Eww!" It feels like I see a LOT of media where humans are portrayed as the absolute good: Only humans can be good. Only humans matter. All other life is evil or mindless. I, literally, hate seeing this in media, but I feel like I see it a LOT in media. In addition, it also feels like the majority of media that wins awards are like this. It feels like a lot of reviewers are like this, slamming truly great games with anthros for any random reason, often making stuff up, yet glomming onto every crappy game where humans are treated as gods golden miracle regardless of quality. I feel like biased reviews also effect media, and most people aren't biased to anthros, but a lot of reviewers seem to be biased against games where humans aren't the main goodguys, and this often trinkles down to the players. There are poorly reviewed games with anthros I actually loved that got bad reviews. ...yet games staring humans that I honestly hated playing that got rave reviews. (Hat in Time comes to mind.)


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## Yakamaru (Nov 7, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Which kind of undermines your point. If the quality is good, then people will play it, even if it has furries.
> 
> That being said, there is a little bit of bias, but I feel like it has more to do with humans becoming narcissistic about their own species rather than "Furries!? Eww!" It feels like I see a LOT of media where humans are portrayed as the absolute good: Only humans can be good. Only humans matter. All other life is evil or mindless. I, literally, hate seeing this in media, but I feel like I see it a LOT in media. In addition, it also feels like the majority of media that wins awards are like this. It feels like a lot of reviewers are like this, slamming truly great games with anthros for any random reason, often making stuff up, yet glomming onto every crappy game where humans are treated as gods golden miracle regardless of quality. I feel like biased reviews also effect media, and most people aren't biased to anthros, but a lot of reviewers seem to be biased against games where humans aren't the main goodguys, and this often trinkles down to the players. There are poorly reviewed games with anthros I actually loved that got bad reviews. ...yet games staring humans that I honestly hated playing that got rave reviews. (Hat in Time comes to mind.)


And you have examples of this I hope? Specifics? For the vast majority humans and humanoids are relatable. Furries are not. 

Just because you hate something doesn't mean someone else will. A good quality product is not guaranteed to attract everyone, but it will have good ratings if the people who buy it like it. Sounds to me you need to stop listening to the media and follow your own likes and dislikes. And follow player reviews. Game critics today are a joke, not to mention movie critics.


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## Ginza (Nov 7, 2017)

I too love playable anthro characters, but shit I'm a furry, so of course I do. It doesn't necessarily make a game better, the plot and gameplay does that. Besides that, it's not seen much because it's obscure and very few people give a damn. It's like someone who loves sci-fi (apologies for my lack of a better analogy) complaining about the lack of aliens in every game. I couldn't care less about that, just as most people couldn't care less about anthros in games. Does it make a game more charming for me? Yes, definitely. However, to expect it isn't very fair or realistic, just isn't the demand and that's perfectly fine with me


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## Baalf (Nov 7, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> And you have examples of this I hope? Specifics? For the vast majority humans and humanoids are relatable. Furries are not.
> 
> Just because you hate something doesn't mean someone else will. A good quality product is not guaranteed to attract everyone, but it will have good ratings if the people who buy it like it. Sounds to me you need to stop listening to the media and follow your own likes and dislikes. And follow player reviews. Game critics today are a joke, not to mention movie critics.



Not many off the top of my head, though Kid Icarus Uprising, Project X Zone, Megaman X/Zero, The World Ends With You and a lot of alien-based games like Destiny come to mind. Also, that's another theory I think is bull: people want heroes they can relate to. Most people I've seen couldn't care less outside biased critics. Most people just care about playing a game that's fun.

I don't need to be told about how bad critics are. I've bought so many games I hated based on good reviews, and if I didn't buy certain games regardless of reviews, I feel like I'd miss out on a lot of great games that got less that great reviews.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 7, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Not many off the top of my head, though Kid Icarus Uprising, Project X Zone, Megaman X/Zero, The World Ends With You and a lot of alien-based games like Destiny come to mind.


And from what I hear, all of those games are good, apart from the last one. That one's just garbage.



BennyJackdaw said:


> Also, that's another theory I think is bull: people want heroes they can relate to. Most people I've seen couldn't care less outside biased critics. Most people just care about playing a game that's fun.


What's fun is 100% subjective. What people care about is 100% subjective, however, there are many different themes/aspects that the vast majority DO care about and find fun.

People care about story. They care about relatable characters and heroes. They care about gameplay. They care about a good in-depth lore. They care about different styles of clothing. They care about game mechanics. They care about the story. They care about good voice acting. They care about whether or not the game is replayable. They care about time spent. They care about memorable NPC's who may have a good spoken line or two to add to the atmosphere. And a plethora of other aspects.

You don't care for relatable characters/heroes, but the vast majority does, which may be the reason of where the disconnect and disagreement lies.



BennyJackdaw said:


> I don't need to be told about how bad critics are. I've bought so many games I hated based on good reviews, and if I didn't buy certain games regardless of reviews, I feel like I'd miss out on a lot of great games that got less that great reviews.


I don't care for the most part about games that gets a score under 70 by user/customer reviews. I don't trust game critics for shit, especially not after GamerGate.

A game may have a 99 in score. A 99 is insanely good. Though that 99 score means someone disliked the game for whatever reason(s). No game fits everyone's tastes.

Unless you in the case of Dust: An Elysian Tail manage to make a good game and a compelling story, it will be a niche product that people in general just won't find interesting. 

Unless Anthros are well-woven into the game's lore and/or tell a good compelling story, people in general just won't be interested.


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## sharprealmcomics (Nov 7, 2017)

to me morrwind is a great game cuzz of the lizerd mens SEXY feet so i get unarmored skill so i can be naked threw the whole game XD


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## Baalf (Nov 7, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> And from what I hear, all of those games are good, apart from the last one. That one's just garbage.
> 
> 
> What's fun is 100% subjective. What people care about is 100% subjective, however, there are many different themes/aspects that the vast majority DO care about and find fun.
> ...



In your opinion, maybe. Honestly, I hated the fact those games did exactly that: portraying humans as god's golden miracle. That, and I didn't find the gameplay in any of those great, so as a result I really didn't find those games fun.

Actually, I do want a relateable protagonist, and that's why I love games with anthros, because they relate to me. ...However, I feel a lot the whole "People want stars they can relate to" and "less than 1% of people are furries" arguments are just theories, and I've seen no proof of most gamers caring about much past core gameplay outside of biased critics, and while it's probably true that the ammount of people who are furries are less than 1%, that's still could be a LOT of people considering there are billions of humans. And besides that, who are they relating to? Heck, most videogame heroes are just hollow shells with weak stories and personalities, which is true regardless of species. Heck, asthetically I really do like the Argonians and Kajiits from Skyrim, but I feel like most of the characters in Skyrim, Argonians and Kajiit included, had pretty boring personalities. That being said, the most likeable videogame stars I've seen... actually happened to be anthros. I just don't see why most people absolutely need humans in order to have fun, and it's not like anthro-related games that are popular don't exist.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 7, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> In your opinion, maybe. Honestly, I hated those games for doing exactly that: portraying humans as god's golden miracle. That, and I didn't find the gameplay in any of those great.
> 
> Actually, I do want a relateable protagonist, and that's why I love games with anthros, because they relate to me. ...However, that's not as common as you make it out to be, and I've seen no proof of most gamers caring about much past core gameplay outside of biased critics. Heck, most videogame heroes are just hollow shells with weak stories and personalities, which is true regardless of species. That being said, the most likeable videogame stars I've seen... actually happened to be anthros. I just don't see why most people absolutely need humans in order to have fun, and it's not like anthro-related games that are popular don't exist.


You hated those games, which is your subjective opinion. An opinion is never right nor wrong. What is wrong however, is parading around as if your opinion is the only right one.

Making the game about anthros just for the sake of anthros is going to make it a much more niche market, not to mention just as hollow and empty as some species/characters are made. In other words, it's no better than what you call hollow shells with weak stories and personalities.


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## Baalf (Nov 8, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> You hated those games, which is your subjective opinion. An opinion is never right nor wrong. What is wrong however, is parading around as if your opinion is the only right one.
> 
> Making the game about anthros just for the sake of anthros is going to make it a much more niche market, not to mention just as hollow and empty as some species/characters are made. In other words, it's no better than what you call hollow shells with weak stories and personalities.



Am I doing that? Cause I'm pointing out several flaws in the usual argument, such as: there's no proof backing up those claims.

Like I said, if the game is really good, then the game can be about whatever it wants to be about. If I were to make a game with an anthro, it would be because it's more creative, it would be to add gameplay elements that wouldn't work as well with humans, to give the game more color, to break away from cliches and narcissism, because it's more fun making games about anthros than humans for me, etc. In addition, a lot of anthros in videogames have somewhat of a warm feel for me. Monster Hunting Humans? Space Marines? Zombie Slayers? Honestly, it all feels a bit... corporate to me. Anthros give me the feeling of a person who enjoys making games. Plus, using non-humans opens up a world of possibilities. Like, I wouldn't mind playing the game about, say, an angler fish who must save her husband from Atlantis, or the size/shape morphing alien with a ray gun who must squeeze through tight spaces to defend his home planet from invaders or such. True, these ides still use common tropes, but that's to be expected. Plus, these could potentially add elements that, I suppose, you COULD get with humans, but it would destroy the creativity behind those very ideas by doing so, not to mention it would also look weird. And yet, even when a character's a true anthro, they usually have abilities that a human might not have.

Another thing I could add is that anthros are usually added to more whimsical games, which to be honest: I love. I don't like "edgelord" games like Metal Gear Solid or Whytcher that are so dark and serious. Whimsy usually gives me the impression that the person enjoys making the game, which isn't always the case (Mario games don't give me that impression), but the more whimsical games give me that feeling.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 8, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Am I doing that? Cause I'm pointing out several flaws in the usual argument, such as: there's no proof backing up those claims.
> 
> Like I said, if the game is really good, then the game can be about whatever it wants to be about. If I were to make a game with an anthro, it would be because it's more creative, it would be to add gameplay elements that wouldn't work as well with humans, to give the game more color, to break away from cliches and narcissism, because it's more fun making games about anthros than humans for me, etc. In addition, a lot of anthros in videogames have somewhat of a warm feel for me. Monster Hunting Humans? Space Marines? Zombie Slayers? Honestly, it all feels a bit... corporate to me. Anthros give me the feeling of a person who enjoys making games. Plus, using non-humans opens up a world of possibilities. Like, I wouldn't mind playing the game about, say, an angler fish who must save her husband from Atlantis, or the size/shape morphing alien with a ray gun who must squeeze through tight spaces to defend his home planet from invaders or such. True, these ides still use common tropes, but that's to be expected. Plus, these could potentially add elements that, I suppose, you COULD get with humans, but it would destroy the creativity behind those very ideas by doing so, not to mention it would also look weird. And yet, even when a character's a true anthro, they usually have abilities that a human might not have.
> 
> Another thing I could add is that anthros are usually added to more whimsical games, which to be honest: I love. I don't like "edgelord" games like Metal Gear Solid or Witcher that are so dark and serious. Whimsy usually gives me the impression that the person enjoys making the game, which isn't always the case (Mario games don't give me that impression), but the more whimsical games give me that feeling.


"Because anthros", am I right? Having an anthro in a game does not necessarily make it better the same way having an elf in a game just for the sake of having an elf in the game may not necessarily make it better. It needs to fit the game's lore and story.

No one's stopping you from making a game about and with anthros. No one is stopping you from making the game of your dreams. No one is stopping you from playing the games you like. 

Your subjective idea of fun only apply to you, and you alone. I would recommend you stop trying to apply your subjective sense of fun onto others let alone the majority. Game creators create the games the way THEY want it. And that game may not be suited for you.


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## Baalf (Nov 8, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> "Because anthros", am I right? Having an anthro in a game does not necessarily make it better the same way having an elf in a game just for the sake of having an elf in the game may not necessarily make it better. It needs to fit the game's lore and story.
> 
> No one's stopping you from making a game about and with anthros. No one is stopping you from making the game of your dreams. No one is stopping you from playing the games you like.
> 
> Your subjective idea of fun only apply to you, and you alone. I would recommend you stop trying to apply your subjective sense of fun onto others let alone the majority. Game creators create the games the way THEY want it. And that game may not be suited for you.



Please stop treating my posts as if they're trying to shove opinions down your throats. All I'm saying is the simple fact that just because a game stars anthros doesn't mean it's audience is going to be limited solely to furries. Look at Rivals of Aether? Look at Sonic Mania? Two great games staring anthros people play other then the fact they star anthros. Look at Yooka Laylee even. People were all hyped up for that game for reasons OTHER than it staring anthros, and while it got mixed reviews, it still has its fans among people other than furries.

My problem with "Humans are the absolute good" type games, and the whole idea in general, stems far beyond personal taste, but delving further into why I hate this trope so much is slightly off topic, so I won't go further here. ...But I'm trying to shove opinions down people's throats. That just feels like the way you're making it feel.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 8, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Please stop treating my posts as if they're trying to shove opinions down your throats. All I'm saying is the simple fact that just because a game stars anthros doesn't mean it's audience is going to be limited solely to furries. Look at Rivals of Aether? Look at Sonic Mania? Two great games staring anthros people play other then the fact they star anthros. Look at Yooka Laylee even. People were all hyped up for that game for reasons OTHER than it staring anthros, and while it got mixed reviews, it still has its fans among people other than furries.
> 
> My problem with "Humans are the absolute good" type games, and the whole idea in general, stems far beyond personal taste, but delving further into why I hate this trope so much is slightly off topic, so I won't go further here. ...But I'm trying to shove opinions down people's throats. That just feels like the way you're making it feel.


What do you want then? What are you trying to achieve with this thread?


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## Baalf (Nov 8, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> What do you want then? What are you trying to achieve with this thread?



Nothing. Basically just stating an opinion, looking for like-minded people, maybe a few different opinions. How often do topics need to have a real goal?

In any case, I must admit I would not mind learning of new anthro games, as I'm always looking for new ones. If anyone knows any good anthro games made in reccent years, I'd love to hear about them.


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## Stratelier (Nov 8, 2017)

Mind if I attempt to break up the back-and-forth posting party?



Spoiler: irrelevant philosophical ramblings



It's okay to "have" an opinion, but being entitled to privately think whatever you want does not mean you are entitled to be respected for it.  Respect must be _earned_.  So when you come across somebody whose opinion opposes yours, you don't want to just clam up inside and say "it was JUST MY OPINION and you can't convince me otherwise!"  That's not even a conversation, it's really a refusal to _have_ a conversation (i.e. "my opinion is final") when what you should really be doing is internally dissecting your opinion, asking yourself where did it come from and why do you have it.  Don't be ignorant of your own views.



I agree, games featuring anthropomorphic characters tend to be more family-friendly and whimsical than games starring humans.

It's also a plus when the character's nonhuman abilities are directly related to their gameplay abilities -- sure you could have a human with the same mechanical abilities, but it just wouldn't feel the same.  A character with the ability to glide and shoot fire?  Sure, you could have a flamethrower-wielding jetpack Space Marine or whatever.  Or you could have a purple dragon.  Which one takes less time to explain?

Games featuring "anthros" do tend to attract the furry sector, as a rule.  But this means nothing if it's not a good game design to begin with.  Rivals of Aether may feature a furry cast, but it's a solid Smash-like fighter underneath that and the pixel art gives it a sense of 16-bit retro appeal.  Sly Cooper featured an anthropomorphic cast, but it was also a solid platformer with witty character dialogue.  Dust: An Elysian Tail impressed because it was a solid 2D action-platformer.

As for my opinion on something, I've heard of this Biomutant game and I've seen a demo playthrough of its opening segment.  But I'm not impressed, and the choice of an anthropomorphic setting doesn't change it for me either:  Sure it caught my attention for a second, but once I saw what it _was_, that charm wore off immediately.  Why?  Because I just don't like post-nuclear as a setting.  I just don't like gritty realism as an art style.  I just don't like the main character's design.  So, I can't find _any_ reason to suspend my disbelief for it.  And what should be charming elements (like the way the main character "marks territory" for a save point) fail on me.  It's not the game's fault, I know, it's just my reaction.  I wouldn't play this game if it starred humans either, and I doubt I'll see anything to change my mind because the things that I don't like about it are inextricable core parts of the game and its setting.

By contrast, something like Horizon: Zero Dawn also features a post-apocalyptic setting.  It features humans.  And giant mechanical robot animal monsters.  That last one caught my attention, but unlike Biomutant, this actually looks like a should-play (albeit not must-play) title for me.  I like the main character's design.  I also happen to like its assorted giant animal robots.  And its postapocalyptic world actually looks beautiful and colorful, not gritty and gray.  Sure, Biomutant had a few greens.  But they were ugly "steamed spinach" dark muted greens.  Horizon shows a better color palette right out of the box.


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## Baalf (Nov 8, 2017)

My problem with Horizon is how it feels somewhat like an anti-environmental game with robots replacing animals to hide the fact. You can ride and control the robots, but I still get the impression that all but humans are evil in that game. As an opinion, I do agree the post-apocalyptic setting is a bit bland. Biomutant... is a game I honestly want to like, but if it's a FPS I probably won't since it's not a genre I have interest in. ...Might be why I love Rivals of Aether cause I love those kind of games.


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## EmpressCiela (Nov 8, 2017)

Depends on the kind of game and what that game strives to achieve.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Nov 8, 2017)

If the game's framework allows for different species, then I have no beef with anthro species, and will likely choose them over vanilla humans.


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## Stratelier (Nov 9, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Biomutant... is a game I honestly want to like, but if it's a FPS I probably won't since it's not a genre I have interest in.


I wasn't watching it that closely, but I _think_ it plays like a platformer, not a shooter.

Oh, and I have a very specific rule to make that distinction by:   In shooters, the camera is always locked behind your character.  You can move your character any direction, but the direction they are _facing_ is always away from the camera - i.e. you only ever see them from the backside (or over-the-shoulder).  In platformers, the character always turns to face whichever direction they are actually traveling (regardless of the camera); they generally never sidestep/backstep like shooter characters do.


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## Baalf (Nov 10, 2017)

Stratelier said:


> I wasn't watching it that closely, but I _think_ it plays like a platformer, not a shooter.
> 
> Oh, and I have a very specific rule to make that distinction by:   In shooters, the camera is always locked behind your character.  You can move your character any direction, but the direction they are _facing_ is always away from the camera - i.e. you only ever see them from the backside (or over-the-shoulder).  In platformers, the character always turns to face whichever direction they are actually traveling (regardless of the camera); they generally never sidestep/backstep like shooter characters do.



I don't know... I'm not really a fan of shooting mechanics in 3D games in general, which might be why I never got around to playing a Ratchet and Clank game.


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## chiz (Nov 10, 2017)

imo its fun to see a "furry" or "anthro" character in games or to have the whole game anthro only.

but i dont REALLY care about that yknow? a game can still suck and if there are anthros in it, thatll only make it feel worse if its bad. a good game is a good game no matter if you play as an anthro, person of colour, man or woman lgbt or not, but its always a little extra fun when it has something you like in it sure. 

(though i always feel extremely pandered to whenever game companies make it overly obvious that they have an X theme, character or whatever in the game. like no im not gonna buy your "lgbt rainbow" playstation 4 that costs 4 grand. why? you painted some colours on it and said "gays are allright"? fuck that lol. they only want our money and only pander to us because of that, if it wouldnt make them money they wouldnt give 2 shits obviously)

there are some furry mods for some games out there. like new vegas. and a mlp mod for fallout 4. sure, id like to see a game like "ryse son of rome" made with anthros. but if i only care about the anthro part, do i really care? yknow what i mean?


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 10, 2017)

Suppose they do. I generally like to use anthro characters in games that has them, like "King" in Tekken, for example. Not exactly an anthro, but he pulls off the look and feel.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 10, 2017)

chiz said:


> imo its fun to see a "furry" or "anthro" character in games or to have the whole game anthro only.
> 
> but i dont REALLY care about that yknow? a game can still suck and if there are anthros in it, thatll only make it feel worse if its bad. a good game is a good game no matter if you play as an anthro, person of colour, man or woman lgbt or not, but its always a little extra fun when it has something you like in it sure.
> 
> ...



*Grrfff. Ponies... Mehhh... You can call them anthros, but they're not furries.*

I see everyone's point here. And yours. Games should be good based on gameply and story, not on characters alone. Games that feature all humans as protagonists aren't popular because there's humans, they're popular because the game is actually good. Furry characters aren't included for many a reason, either they can easily either ruin the theme of the game, (Gritty and realistic. Like Biomutant, a lot of work has to be done to get the furry character on the world's level.) their abilities and mechanics are different enough from humans that they have to code new scripts for them to operate on and they have to create an entirely new model or spriteset and animate that. They may not have even thought of putting furry characters in. I feel like "ew furries" or anti-furry bias is one of the last factors in such a decision, mostly because game development is a team effort and unless the decision was unanimous that furries were gross, I don't think you'd find that many game companies that care one way or another about furries, because furries are a rather niche audience anyways. You might have better luck talking to indie game devs if any and all of this is the case, at the very least their opinion would be more immediate.
I'm not sure how to address OP's opinion. Why do they think the majority of games make humans out to be the ultimate good and everything else is evil? I would like to see the roots of this thinking, it must be analyzed... Try not to be too misanthropic, humans can be good too, but don't judge them so critically for not being your preferred species. *Kinda reminds me of myself sometimes when I don't like another species just for being what they are.*

I think my point through all of this is, There's more reasons to why there aren't as many anthro characters to play as in games.


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## chiz (Nov 10, 2017)

dogryme6 said:


> *Grrfff. Ponies... Mehhh... You can call them anthros, but they're not furries.*
> 
> I see everyone's point here. And yours. Games should be good based on gameply and story, not on characters alone. Games that feature all humans as protagonists aren't popular because there's humans, they're popular because the game is actually good. Furry characters aren't included for many a reason, either they can easily either ruin the theme of the game, (Gritty and realistic. Like Biomutant, a lot of work has to be done to get the furry character on the world's level.) their abilities and mechanics are different enough from humans that they have to code new scripts for them to operate on and they have to create an entirely new model or spriteset and animate that. They may not have even thought of putting furry characters in. I feel like "ew furries" or anti-furry bias is one of the last factors in such a decision, mostly because game development is a team effort and unless the decision was unanimous that furries were gross, I don't think you'd find that many game companies that care one way or another about furries, because furries are a rather niche audience anyways. You might have better luck talking to indie game devs if any and all of this is the case, at the very least their opinion would be more immediate.
> I'm not sure how to address OP's opinion. Why do they think the majority of games make humans out to be the ultimate good and everything else is evil? I would like to see the roots of this thinking, it must be analyzed... Try not to be too misanthropic, humans can be good too, but don't judge them so critically for not being your preferred species. *Kinda reminds me of myself sometimes when I don't like another species just for being what they are.*
> ...



and yeah well i meant furry/anthro mods. chill.

the part of "humans are good everything bad thats usually just how ficitonal stories go. we are humans and its natural to think of ones own struggles as good. its the condition of man, we see ourselves as the underdogs / maake ourselves of every story so that we can feel good when we see "our side" winning or overcoming struggles and emerging victorious through the darkness.    (hope that all makes sense, english isnt my first language, so the grammar might be wonky)


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## dogryme6 (Nov 10, 2017)

chiz said:


> and yeah well i meant furry/anthro mods. chill.
> 
> the part of "humans are good everything bad thats usually just how ficitonal stories go. we are humans and its natural to think of ones own struggles as good. its the condition of man, we see ourselves as the underdogs / maake ourselves of every story so that
> we can feel good when we see "our side" winning or overcoming struggles and emerging victorious through the darkness.    (hope that all makes sense, english isnt my first language, so the grammar might be wonky)



Sorry, got my bias on. They're like peas and mashed potatoes, I don't want one getting in the other. Just what I think though.
I know that's kind of the basic fact of how all our fictional stories go down... And granted it was warranted, in the old days animals were dangerous, as were anyone you didn't know who lived in the wilderness.
However in our modern era we have built up enough tolerance for other creatures to use them as allies in our stories. We know everyone and while perhaps not everything, enough to build confidence with. There are still dangers and threats on the rise, but we can deal with them as long as we act accordingly.
Wouldn't the achievements of mankind look even better with a bigger, more diverse set of allies? Like Robots, Aliens, and Furry Characters. The more the merrier, goes to show not everything outside of humans is chaotic evil. I love it when that happens, a unified force that saves the world instead of one race that happens to be better than the rest, or the only best one. Successful diplomatic accomplishment is better than successful war efforts.


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## chiz (Nov 10, 2017)

dogryme6 said:


> Sorry, got my bias on. They're like peas and mashed potatoes, I don't want one getting in the other. Just what I think though.
> I know that's kind of the basic fact of how all our fictional stories go down... And granted it was warranted, in the old days animals were dangerous, as were anyone you didn't know who lived in the wilderness.
> However in our modern era we have built up enough tolerance for other creatures to use them as allies in our stories. We know everyone and while perhaps not everything, enough to build confidence with. There are still dangers and threats on the rise, but we can deal with them as long as we act accordingly.
> Wouldn't the achievements of mankind look even better with a bigger, more diverse set of allies? Like Robots, Aliens, and Furry Characters. The more the merrier, goes to show not everything outside of humans is chaotic evil. I love it when that happens, a unified force that saves the world instead of one race that happens to be better than the rest, or the only best one. Successful diplomatic accomplishment is better than successful war efforts.




thats why we have games like elder scrolls and mass effect.  some people make the mix work, and some either dont want to make that mix, cant, or just dont think of it.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 10, 2017)

chiz said:


> thats why we have games like elder scrolls and mass effect.  some people make the mix work, and some either dont want to make that mix, cant, or just dont think of it.


Indeed.


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## Pipistrele (Nov 10, 2017)

Wolfrayne90 said:


> I am probably a little biased in this, frustrated that my friends wont give Dust a try because "I'm not a furfag" or the last minute change to worgen in WoW back in the day to make them look less attractive because the player base was scared of a yiffpocalypse otherwise (I dont know the REAL reason why they ended up changing the models but at the time I thought that was the reason, I still really dont like the models they put out on release the beta was way better looking)
> I hope you are right and it isn't a thing though


Welp, whatever your friends may say, Dust is still one of the most critically acclaimed and commercially successful indie games of past several years, so I wouldn't base an opinion on a couple of folks who happen to not like anthro aesthetic. As for WoW model change, the thought of "Blizzard making models worse because of furries" is silly to say the least - I mean, take in consideration that WoW gave us so many "cute monster/beast girl" designs (all the draeneis and Lady Vashjes), Japan is still trying to catch up with all their MG-themed franchises  

It's true that titles that consist fully of anthropomorphic animals (like Dust or Solatorobo) are few and far between, and there's a lot of good reasons for that, from story purposes (I mean, it's hard to take a story like Walking Dead or Heavy Rain seriously when cast consists of talking animals) to just the fact that it's easier for target audience to relate to human characters. However, it's also hard to find any sci-fi/fantasy franchise that_ doesn't _have anthros or human/animal hybrids. Star Wars has anthros, Star Trek has anthros, The Elder Scrolls has anthros, Made in Abyss has anthros -I can continue the list endlessly, really  So, I really don't get what kind of "anti-fury bias" people are talking about - media is full of anthros, and it's in fact the overabundance of anthros in media that was a root of furry subculture to begin with.


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## Baalf (Nov 10, 2017)

Wolfrayne90 said:


> I am probably a little biased in this, frustrated that my friends wont give Dust a try because "I'm not a furfag" or the last minute change to worgen in WoW back in the day to make them look less attractive because the player base was scared of a yiffpocalypse otherwise (I dont know the REAL reason why they ended up changing the models but at the time I thought that was the reason, I still really dont like the models they put out on release the beta was way better looking)
> I hope you are right and it isn't a thing though



Werewolves, honestly, are one thing that, IMO, make fairly bland "pretty" characters, so I might be alone on this, but I actually love the uglier Worgen's, especially since they're the least human of the Alliance races. As for furries, I don't think that, per say, is the main factor.



Pipistrele said:


> It's true that titles that consist fully of anthropomorphic animals (like Dust or Solatorobo) are few and far between, and there's a lot of good reasons for that, from story purposes (I mean, it's hard to take a story like Walking Dead or Heavy Rain seriously when cast consists of talking animals) to just the fact that it's easier for target audience to relate to human characters. However, it's also hard to find any sci-fi/fantasy franchise that_ doesn't _have anthros or human/animal hybrids. Star Wars has anthros, Star Trek has anthros, The Elder Scrolls has anthros, Made in Abyss has anthros -I can continue the list endlessly, really  So, I really don't get what kind of "anti-fury bias" people are talking about - media is full of anthros, and it's in fact the overabundance of anthros in media that was a root of furry subculture to begin with.



Star Wars have Bothans(Canines), Gamoreans (Pigs), Transdoshins(Lizards), a Lemur Race, a Spider Race and a Shark Race(All three featured in Clone Wars). Deep down, I'm not sure I agree with anthros as beings from another planet. It just seems... improbable.

I don't know of any anthros in Star Trek.

I've never heard of Made In Abyss, so this quote's potentially unrelated, but I have to confess: I hate seeing strictly evil anthros in games. This seemed to be true about the Gamoreans, Transdoshins, Spiders and Sharks in Star Wars (the lemurs were good, I think, though I don't think I've ever seen an actual Bothan on-screen, though they're mentioned in one of the movies). Any time I have to fight anthros as humans in a game, I tend to lose interest fast, especially if it takes up a lot of the game. It's a big reason I didn't get very far in Lost Odyssey. It may be pathetic, but it still effects the game for me.


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## Sagt (Nov 10, 2017)

Err, sort of.

If the game has some cute anthros, then that certainly is something going for it, to me. When I was playing Rachet and Clank, I did think that the main character, Rachet, did keep me engaged to a certain degree more; same deal with Skyrim when I picked a Khajit, and in Star Fox with Fox McCloud. Having said that, I probably wouldn't have cared too much about the anthros if the games themselves were bad, or if I just disliked them for another reason.

I wouldn't consider it to be a determining factor on whether I enjoy a game, but it still is a bonus.


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## Pipistrele (Nov 10, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Werewolves, honestly, are one thing that, IMO, make fairly bland "pretty" characters, so I might be alone on this, but I actually love the uglier Worgen's, especially since they're the least human of the Alliance races. As for furries, I don't think that, per say, is the main factor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Welp, all I can say is that you have a rather specific definition of fun in video games - they should have anthros, but they should be good and not from Outer Space, otherwise the game isn't fun enough .u.


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## Baalf (Nov 10, 2017)

Pipistrele said:


> Welp, all I can say is that you have a rather specific definition of fun in video games - they should have anthros, but they should be good and not from Outer Space, otherwise the game isn't fun enough .u.



No... It's not as shallow as that. I'm fine with playing a game staring humans. I just hate games that give me the impression we're the ONLY species capable of good. It's not that I so much HATE anthro aliens, I just feel they're a bit lazily designed, but I'm usually indifferent about them. The only reason I have a real problem with a game is if the main villains to humans are furries or humans are treated as god's golden miracle. Other then that, I'm not that picky. Fable 2 and 3 I used to play the heck out of, and the only real non-human goodguy those two have are a dog follower, but that's usually good enough for me. In Project X Zone, which I mentioned earlier, every single goodguy's either human or a heavily humanized lifeform like Morrigan or Megaman X, but the badguys take a plethora of different shapes and sizes. THAT is what I hate seeing: a diverse cast of likeable VILLAINS, yet an incredibly shallow cast of heroes.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 11, 2017)

Anthro characters would be more interesting if they didn't default to generic bland animals to stay safe for the already puny market they would appeal to in the first place. The millions of organisms on this planet and the only thing most can conjure up, even when making "alien" species, are vaguely dog and cat looking blobs. We get more variety with humans these days, but anthro games cannot seem to get some spine about their art direction in most cases.

Such a shame Yooka Laylee was a wasted pile of mismanaged rubbish and was promptly, rightfully booted to the curb by Hat in Time and Super Mario Odyssey. We could have had an interesting new anthro character for once. Perhaps a sequel...


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## Baalf (Nov 11, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> Anthro characters would be more interesting if they didn't default to generic bland animals to stay safe for the already puny market they would appeal to in the first place. The millions of organisms on this planet and the only thing most can conjure up, even when making "alien" species, are vaguely dog and cat looking blobs. We get more variety with humans these days, but anthro games cannot seem to get some spine about their art direction in most cases.
> 
> Such a shame Yooka Laylee was a wasted pile of mismanaged rubbish and was promptly, rightfully booted to the curb by Hat in Time and Super Mario Odyssey. We could have had an interesting new anthro character for once. Perhaps a sequel...



Okay, seriously, do NOT even get me started on Yooka-Laylee and Shat in Time. Yooka-Laylee, especially with the latest patches, is not as bad as it's made out to be. I mean, it's not perfect (no game is), but a "Wasted pile of mismanaged rubbish?" No... just, no. It was never THAT bad. Also, I have absolutely no respect or love for Shat in Time or the people who made it. It's just a generic platformer saddled with a generic main character and filled to the fucking BRIM (no pun intended) with anti-furry bullshit. Every single anthro's either a villain or super-unlikable, which basically ENFORCES the very thing I hate seeing in games. Even Cooking Cat, arguably the most likeable anthro in the game, is still somewhat a villain since she works for the Mafia!(Badguys). No, I don't like the game, nor do I like the fact that, thanks to the game's success and Yooka's lack of success, media with anthros in them will probably be set back even further than it already is. So sorry, call me jaded and you're probably going to mock me for this, but that is my honest-to-god opinion on Shat in Time. I would love to see a sequel to Yooka-Laylee that fixed the problems of the first game, but I have a nasty feeling even it may not ever happen.

As for your above comment, I've no clue what you mean by "Humans got creative." I've seen virtually nothing new in humans in media in the past decade or more. I feel like just about everything we can do with our own species has already been done except for some really stupid ideas that would translate poorly to characters and games. I feel like the only way we can really get creative anymore is if we DON'T use humans. And while I agree it's tiring seeing the usual wolf/fox/bear/rabbit/lizard/etc. type characters, I almost feel like it's better than nothing. I'd love to see a game about a tapir or an angler fish or something new.

I'm still looking for some really good reccent anthro games, but no one's been posting any. Should I just make a topic for it? I feel like this might as well be the topic, though it's not specifically about "What good games staring anthros are there," more along the lines of what your opinion on anthros in games are.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 11, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Okay, seriously, do NOT even get me started on Yooka-Laylee and Shat in Time. Yooka-Laylee, especially with the latest patches, is not as bad as it's made out to be. I mean, it's not perfect (no game is), but a "Wasted pile of mismanaged rubbish?" No... just, no. It was never THAT bad. Also, I have absolutely no respect or love for Shat in Time or the people who made it. It's just a generic platformer saddled with a generic main character and filled to the fucking BRIM (no pun intended) with anti-furry bullshit. Every single anthro's either a villain or super-unlikable, which basically ENFORCES the very thing I hate seeing in games. Even Cooking Cat, arguably the most likeable anthro in the game, is still somewhat a villain since she works for the Mafia!(Badguys). No, I don't like the game, nor do I like the fact that, thanks to the game's success and Yooka's lack of success, media with anthros in them will probably be set back even further than it already is. So sorry, call me jaded and you're probably going to mock me for this, but that is my honest-to-god opinion on Shat in Time. I would love to see a sequel to Yooka-Laylee that fixed the problems of the first game, but I have a nasty feeling even it may not ever happen.
> 
> As for your above comment, I've no clue what you mean by "Humans got creative." I've seen virtually nothing new in humans in media in the past decade or more. I feel like just about everything we can do with our own species has already been done except for some really stupid ideas that would translate poorly to characters and games. I feel like the only way we can really get creative anymore is if we DON'T use humans. And while I agree it's tiring seeing the usual wolf/fox/bear/rabbit/lizard/etc. type characters, I almost feel like it's better than nothing. I'd love to see a game about a tapir or an angler fish or something new.
> 
> I'm still looking for some really good reccent anthro games, but no one's been posting any. Should I just make a topic for it? I feel like this might as well be the topic, though it's not specifically about "What good games staring anthros are there," more along the lines of what your opinion on anthros in games are.



HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BOY!!! You both just said somethin' SPICY!!! Yooka Laylee's shite, A Hat In Time's shite?! Better get ready for a comment brawl, cuz I'm really feeling it!
I'll just start off by saying. I've played Yooka Laylee, the dang game's just kinda... Mediocre? They didn't need to make such big worlds, the control could've been way more polished, some of the bosses and levels could've been fixed up more mechanically, but it's not sonic 06 levels of bad. It could've been worse! As it is it's just kinda meh.
Haven't played A Hat In Time but I'm sure it's ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL! I've really gotta play it...
I would like to argue for the defense that the anthros in A Hat In Time aren't evil! And while they might not be godly good either, they're good by themselves! Sure they might be working for the mafia, but that Mustachioed Girl told you to shred some of the mafia guys into bloody bits so they could be put in a jar and sold as salsa back to them! If That's not EVIL I don't know WHAT is!
Since I don't know any other anthros in that game I can't say for sure if they're good or bad, but one thing's for sure. That demon guy in the second world is evil! I do have more faith in whoever the train guy is later though, he has a cool design.

I REALLY have to ask what makes you think anthros in these games when they're not the heroes are always villains and why you hate that so much? Do you operate on Blue and Orange morality? You confuse me, @BennyJackdaw !

As for your second big paragraph, Humans by themselves are not creative as individual creatures / animals / people designs. But give them some personality, a few defining traits, what they do and what their actions are, a cool outfit and some cool stuff and BLAMMO, you've just made an interesting human person! Give them a relatable story / backstory and then they're great! Seriously, I don't see why you hate human or human-like characters in games so god fucking damned much, because you're really not helping your case by wearing your dark heart on your sleeve. They can be good! And I'm not being pro-human to piss you off, I'm being pro-human to defend the case that they're not totally bad. Yes anthros are more creative but to just up and abandon humans as any sort of possibility would alienate all normies and a good chunk of furries. So seriously, stop being so jacked up, rabbit, and open up those big ears. Cuz 'lest you listen and tell the roots of your thinking, why you have such a huge issue with humans, I can't tell you why your thinking is wrong and you can't accept why that's wrong cuz I can't tell you.


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## Baalf (Nov 11, 2017)

It's off topic, so just look up my rant on Phoenixed for an idea.

As for why I hate games like Hat in Time, it's due to decades of pent up frustration of seeing games I look forward to that have anthros and BEG to be good, only for almost every single one being hated while watching games like Shat In Time, which have anthro or nonhuman villains and portray humans as the only creatures capable of good, get love and rave reviews as a way of shoving a lemon into the gaping wound. Years of frustration I don't think people will ever understand. I try desperately to look for games that offset the norm like Sonic Mania and Rivals of Aether, but they are few and far between most of the time.

My disdain for human characters is not purely do to misanthropy. My problem is that most are very typical. If it was as easy as you make it out to be, then there'd be less generic space marines, game hunters, edgelords, cocky types, etc. And if you REALLY want likeable humans, you need a story that isn't shallow and narcissistic. A lot of stories are bogged down by the things I've mentioned in this topic and elsewhere. Again, I don't mid playing as a human, my main problem is shallow storytelling where humans are the only major or absolute source of good.

All in all, though, I feel like making truly likeable characters, human anthro or otherwise, is difficult. It might be why I like anthros. Even if they're as shallow as other characters, they at least look cool.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 11, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> It's off topic, so just look up my rant on Phoenixed for an idea.
> 
> As for why I hate games like Hat in Time, it's due to decades of pent up frustration of seeing games I look forward to that have anthros and BEG to be good, only for almost every single one being hated while watching games like Shat In Time, which have anthro or nonhuman villains and portray humans as the only creatures capable of good, get love and rave reviews as a way of shoving a lemon into the gaping wound. Years of frustration I don't think people will ever understand. I try desperately to look for games that offset the norm like Sonic Mania and Rivals of Aether, but they are few and far between most of the time.
> 
> ...



... Not sure where to search in pheonixed to find your rant...
You do realize there are evil humans in those games too, right? Also, learn not to take it that personally... Just because a game you want to succeed over others doesn't succeed doesn't mean people are kicking wet ocean sand into your wounds, celebrating and singing "ding dong the witch is dead" while parading with those other games.
I just think you get hung up on that thing way too much. I have no idea how to tell you to take a chill pill about non-human villains, but... Try not to look at them as anthro animals and hate the game because of it? Because I think that's dumb.
Also, I do wish people took animal characters just as seriously as humans enough to want to make a great game about them that can be on the same level as great games that don't have an animal as a protagonist.
I feel like the protagonists of the lego movie, hiro from big hero 6, shulk from xenoblade chronicles and hiccup from how to train your dragon are all unique enough optimistic humans with unique personalities and plenty enough experience that they're not like those space marines, monster hunters, or edgelords you speak of. I'd say they're hardly like that. More games and movies and stories in general deserve better human heroes than the generic action game hero guy that's placed pretty much everywhere. (brown hair, middle aged, all that crap.)
The more you rant about humans being the major or only absolute source of good, the more I start to get annoyed about that. I don't know what to say to change your mind. If the world was furry and you lived in it your whole life until you found out about humans, would you want humans instead and get sick of furries being the only absolute good thing in that world? I'd argue yes. Which, means that's just as silly to me then.
I'm out of topic ammo. Someone, please, get me some more...


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## TheArchiver (Nov 11, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Okay, seriously, do NOT even get me started on Yooka-Laylee and Shat in Time. Yooka-Laylee, especially with the latest patches, is not as bad as it's made out to be. I mean, it's not perfect (no game is), but a "Wasted pile of mismanaged rubbish?" No... just, no. It was never THAT bad. Also, I have absolutely no respect or love for Shat in Time or the people who made it. It's just a generic platformer saddled with a generic main character and filled to the fucking BRIM (no pun intended) with anti-furry bullshit. Every single anthro's either a villain or super-unlikable, which basically ENFORCES the very thing I hate seeing in games. Even Cooking Cat, arguably the most likeable anthro in the game, is still somewhat a villain since she works for the Mafia!(Badguys). No, I don't like the game, nor do I like the fact that, thanks to the game's success and Yooka's lack of success, media with anthros in them will probably be set back even further than it already is. So sorry, call me jaded and you're probably going to mock me for this, but that is my honest-to-god opinion on Shat in Time. I would love to see a sequel to Yooka-Laylee that fixed the problems of the first game, but I have a nasty feeling even it may not ever happen.
> 
> As for your above comment, I've no clue what you mean by "Humans got creative." I've seen virtually nothing new in humans in media in the past decade or more. I feel like just about everything we can do with our own species has already been done except for some really stupid ideas that would translate poorly to characters and games. I feel like the only way we can really get creative anymore is if we DON'T use humans. And while I agree it's tiring seeing the usual wolf/fox/bear/rabbit/lizard/etc. type characters, I almost feel like it's better than nothing. I'd love to see a game about a tapir or an angler fish or something new.
> 
> I'm still looking for some really good reccent anthro games, but no one's been posting any. Should I just make a topic for it? I feel like this might as well be the topic, though it's not specifically about "What good games staring anthros are there," more along the lines of what your opinion on anthros in games are.



I don't particularly care for your outrage as you're a minority. Enjoy Yooka Laylee. It's of no concern to me. However the votes are in and it is, with the exception of you, universally considered the inferior product to Hat in Time (and Super Mario Odyssey). No amount of frivolous screeching at me or baseless claims towards the developer's intentions will change that.
And as someone as pro furry as you who despises human-centric titles, I would figure_ you_ would be the one to be listing every video game starring a critter. Explain to me why this is our duty for you.

On an aside note, I am personally intrigued by Microsoft's upcoming title Super Lucky's Tale. A very clear imitation of Super Mario 3D World, but an imitation of quality simply equals quality. Speaking of imitation, Tunic, while yet another uninspired canine character, is looking supremely wonderful. I will absolutely be purchasing this on launch.


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## CarbonCoal (Nov 11, 2017)

It honestly sounds like you're taking these games way too seriously.I highly doubt the creators of Hat in Time have anything against furries just because there are villains that just so happen to be anthros in their game.It's really immature to say that you have no respect for a bunch of people you know nothing about just because of that.I also doubt that the creators of Mario games don't actually enjoy what they're doing.

You are taking all of this too personally.If you enjoy Yooka Laylee then that's great but there's no reason to get all worked up because more people prefer Hat in Time and Mario Odyssey.Who cares?Stop worrying about what other people think and just enjoy the games that make you happy.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 11, 2017)

I feel done with this whole flipping mess. Go play some OneShot, and get your mind off of this weird idea that in video games shows and movies, humans are good, furries are bad, and you hate that. Because I really don't get it.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 11, 2017)

I also must add. I do hope the folks at Sega can manage consistency with future AAA Sonic titles. His recent release in Forces was so very dry. 
Not mangled. Not comically poor. Simply boring and timid in it's level design. A great deal of grand ideas squandered. Beautiful visuals, fun avatar creation, some improvements to Boost Sonic's handling and outstanding music as usual. But it was all undermined by the most dull and short lived level design the franchise has ever seen.

Odd considering seven of the now technically nine "boost games", particularly the Hedgehog Engine titles, were exceptional entries to the series in my opinion (though Sonic Unleashed is polarizing to many and the Wii/PS2 ports need not be mentioned).


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## dogryme6 (Nov 11, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> I also must add. I do hope the folks at Sega can manage consistency with future AAA Sonic titles. His recent release in Forces was so very dry.
> Not mangled. Not comically poor. Simply boring and timid in it's level design. A great deal of grand ideas squandered. Beautiful visuals, fun avatar creation, some improvements to Boost Sonic's handling and outstanding music as usual. But it was all undermined by the most dull and short lived level design the franchise has ever seen.
> 
> Odd considering seven of the now technically nine "boost games", particularly the Hedgehog Engine titles, were exceptional entries to the series in my opinion (though Sonic Unleashed is polarizing to many and the Wii/PS2 ports need not be mentioned).


Alas, poor sonic! Another mediocre game released, another depressed sigh from those expecting a game as good as colors or generations.
Well, ya had your fill with Mania, be happy with That.

I liked All of Unleashed. And I REALLY liked the Werehog, it introduced me to beat-em-ups and brawlers, so now I like those. Kinda was the game that started my furrydom, ironically enough.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 11, 2017)

dogryme6 said:


> I liked All of Unleashed. And I REALLY liked the Werehog, it introduced me to beat-em-ups and brawlers, so now I like those.



Agreed. I felt that they were entirely too long at points, but I enjoyed the entirety of the game.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 11, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> Agreed. I felt that they were entirely too long at points, but I enjoyed the entirety of the game.


Common complaint. They could have done to make the night levels shorter, perhaps by removing any fights that get in the way of reaching the next main setpiece or platforming challenge, and polish up those platforming challenges more.


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## Baalf (Nov 11, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> I don't particularly care for your outrage as you're a minority. Enjoy Yooka Laylee. It's of no concern to me. However the votes are in and it is, with the exception of you, universally considered the inferior product to Hat in Time (and Super Mario Odyssey). No amount of frivolous screeching at me or baseless claims towards the developer's intentions will change that.
> And as someone as pro furry as you who despises human-centric titles, I would figure_ you_ would be the one to be listing every video game starring a critter. Explain to me why this is our duty for you.
> 
> On an aside note, I am personally intrigued by Microsoft's upcoming title Super Lucky's Tale. A very clear imitation of Super Mario 3D World, but an imitation of quality simply equals quality. Speaking of imitation, Tunic, while yet another uninspired canine character, is looking supremely wonderful. I will absolutely be purchasing this on launch.



...It wasn't supposed to be a contest. I am just saying games like YookaLaylee and Hat In Time have frustrated me for a while, though I will admit to being a bit jaded. I am not trying to change anyone's opinion or anything. Sorry if it is coming off that way.

Also, shame for Sonic Forces, but Mania proved they CAN still make a great Sonic game.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 11, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Also, shame for Sonic Forces, but Mania proved they CAN still make a great Sonic game.



Forces itself proves that enough. The game is a functioning product that was nipping at the heels of critical acclaim. They just require a competent level director and not the one responsible for Sonic and the Black Knight.


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## Stratelier (Nov 11, 2017)

dogryme6 said:


> I'm out of topic ammo. Someone, please, get me some more...


I could point you the nearest store *I* know of, but it'll take you half an hour to get there.  (Which is actually part of the point.  )


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## dogryme6 (Nov 12, 2017)

Stratelier said:


> I could point you the nearest store *I* know of, but it'll take you half an hour to get there.  (Which is actually part of the point.  )


Kinda get it, kinda don't... Unless it's a joke about how it'll take me longer to get it than you understand it as soon as you post.
Well played sir, in that case.


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## Jay98 (Nov 12, 2017)

John:
For me if a game has a small selection of playable characters then making one anthropomorphic kinda makes me put it in the furry games category. However games with a larger selection like RPGs and fighting games where one out of many might be anthropomorphic is kinda seen more as an experimental idea.

For me having that option there is comforting in that it opens a bracket into a persona of more freedom of behavior. However I still don't think anthropomorphism should be such a common feature in games. Where it's appropriate like fantasy based universes it's a fun branch to be something weird and interesting. Shoved into more realistic settings it's more off-putting and I can see why non-furries take offense to it. It's more of a case of reaching for popularity rather than substance.

RPGs are particularly fun to mess with. Acting in character in heavily dialogue driven game by reading aloud the dialogue and putting your own spin on it is just as fun as acting out any role for giggles. I think that option should always be there but shouldn't be so heavily hit home. Acting in character of an anthropomorphic creature in FPS' or Driving games however is somewhat off-putting even if all the characters are anthropomorphic. It just seems like being a fanboy to me.


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## Stratelier (Nov 12, 2017)

dogryme6 said:


> Kinda get it, kinda don't... Unless it's a joke about how it'll take me longer to get it than you understand it as soon as you post.


No, it's a joke about how walking away from the discussion for a while gives you time to reflect on it and come up with a better reply.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 12, 2017)

Stratelier said:


> No, it's a joke about how walking away from the discussion for a while gives you time to reflect on it and come up with a better reply.


Oh... Crap.
Prediction systems are a FAIL.


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## Baalf (Nov 12, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> And as someone as pro furry as you who despises human-centric titles, I would figure_ you_ would be the one to be listing every video game starring a critter. Explain to me why this is our duty for you.



Because no one person knows of every single videogame on the market. I am no different, I don't know of every single anthro game out there, which is why I ask if there are good anthro-related games I've not heard of.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 12, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Because no one person knows of every single videogame on the market. I am no different, I don't know of every single anthro game out there, which is why I ask if there are good anthro-related games I've not heard of.



...Well that was delayed.

Anyway, when I want more of something specific, I tend to look deeper into things myself as soon as the interest turns up. I would say this goes double particularly if you loathe all other games not featuring the specific traits you desire.

You whine incessantly of there being not enough anthro games when there are plenty but you're doing minimal effort to find what it is you enjoy. That is rather backwards.


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## Baalf (Nov 13, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> ...Well that was delayed.
> 
> Anyway, when I want more of something specific, I tend to look deeper into things myself as soon as the interest turns up. I would say this goes double particularly if you loathe all other games not featuring the specific traits you desire.
> 
> You whine incessantly of there being not enough anthro games when there are plenty but you're doing minimal effort to find what it is you enjoy. That is rather backwards.



Not really. I'm actually trying to do quite a bit of reserch, it's just that, again, I'm only one person, and one person can only find so much, so I ask people for help in finding things. I don't see why that's such a bad thing, especially when trying to look for something that isn't easy to find.

Also, I'm not "whining," I'm just frustrated.


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## Sagt (Nov 13, 2017)

You should probably make a new thread for that.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 13, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> Also, I'm not "whining," I'm just frustrated.



Yes. Frustrated. Across a myriad of sites. For years. Over the same non-problem.


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## Baalf (Nov 13, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> Yes. Frustrated. Across a myriad of sites. For years. Over the same non-problem.



YOU may think it's a "non-problem," but I personally find it to be a huge problem.



Lcs said:


> You should probably make a new thread for that.



I don't know... I feel like someone else should do it this time.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 13, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> YOU may think it's a "non-problem," but I personally find it to be a huge problem.


It's a petty non-issue.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 13, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> YOU may think it's a "non-problem," but I personally find it to be a huge problem.



You and you alone.


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## dogryme6 (Nov 13, 2017)

I'm only going to say this once, so pay attention... It's called a solution.
Go search on your own, notepad program in hand. List off the name of every anthro animal game you have seen or played before, and mark them down. Then...
BEGIN YOUR SEARCH. Don't stop looking, ever. List every anthro game you haven't played or heard of, leave it unmarked if you haven't played it.
When you have found a sufficient number of other games, Try to do research on those games and make sure they're good. begin finding ways to play them that you are comfortable with.
When you are out of games, resume active search.
Some Day you will Run Out of Anthro Animal Games to Play. When that happens, you will need to grow some thicker skin, fur, scales, whatever surface layer protection your persona has, and play games that don't feature anthro animals.
Games that feature... Humans. They might feature Only humans. Do not worry, this is normal. The Villains can be anything, Do not worry, this is also normal. So do not get upset over something so silly as humans being the good guys and fighting anthros that are the bad guys.

If all else fails... Then I will quote Morty from Rick And Morty S2's Interdimensional TV episode. [Processing!]
_Well, Summer, Maybe people that create things aren't concerned with your delicate sensibilities, you know? Maybe the species that communicate with each other through the filter of your comfort are less evolved than the ones that just communicate! Maybe your problems are your own to deal with, and maybe the public giving a sh!t about your feelings is a one-way ticket to extinction!_
Geez, Morty.


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## RakshaTheCat (Nov 13, 2017)

Sooo many hooman fanboys flocked to this thread... Aren't there better threads for all you shaveskin lovers? >;3

More on topic, I actually can relate, hooomanocentrism in games can sometimes get in the way of fun, especially in games when I'd like to feel some kind of immersion. 

Take Skyrim for example, sure you can play Khajiit, but if you try to finish main quest, it will pretty quickly try to force you to be a traitor to your own faction. I never finished main quest because of that since playing it out of character would be way too boring.

Pleasing minorities like us wont be on top of the priority list for any of the top studios of course, so if we want more games where anthros are a bit more than usual 'funny weird race good only for mischief or kissing human asses' , might need to just make it... Maybe you know any game designer with idea for decent game, where we can have some anthros slaying evil hooomans? >:3


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## TheArchiver (Nov 13, 2017)

I find it unfortunate (for my personal tastes) how many anthro titles seem to put emphasis on narrative over longevity and gameplay.  So many visual novels and the like. Among the usual plethora of other titles that are just poor in a general sense.
In any case, there are a number of anthro titles I have had my eye on.

Skylar and Plux being the primary game on that list. Another platformer superior to Yooka Laylee in terms of performance and design.
I believe I mentioned Tunic which tickles the 2D Legend of Zelda fan within me. I'm optimistic that this will tide me over until Nintendo releases their next top down entry.
I intended to attempt UnnyWorld. An interesting looking MOBA.
Yono looks adorable.
I will also have to manage a copy of Ratchet and Clank 2016 in the future.

I should also add my disappointment in the silent cancellation of RetroBlazer. What a shame that a promising Doom clone in the current generation quietly faded away before it even reached it's beta. It's alpha was highly enjoyable. 



RakshaTheCat said:


> Sooo many hooman fanboys flocked to this thread... Aren't there better threads for all you shaveskin lovers? >;3



Dreadful, aren't we?


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## Stratelier (Nov 13, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> Skylar and Plux being the primary game on that list.


I saw that pop up on Steam, but I was personally unimpressed.  We can't all be Ratchet & Clank or Sly Cooper, but the visual style alone is just ... "meh".


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## TheArchiver (Nov 13, 2017)

Stratelier said:


> I saw that pop up on Steam, but I was personally unimpressed.  We can't all be Ratchet & Clank or Sly Cooper, but the visual style alone is just ... "meh".



It also isn't developed by a studio of upwards to 80-100 professional developers financially backed by Sony Computer Entertainment. So I can forgive less than outstanding art direction if the gameplay is up to par.


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## RakshaTheCat (Nov 14, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> I find it unfortunate (for my personal tastes) how many anthro titles seem to put emphasis on narrative over longevity and gameplay. So many visual novels and the like.


Yeah, I wouldn't mind more gameplay, even if it would be just something simple like point and click adventure maybe... Well, if anyone reading it wants to take their visual novel and make something more but doesn't have someone who will do all the programming, I'm always happy to help :3



TheArchiver said:


> Dreadful, aren't we?


Very... You shaveskins make great villains because of it though >:3


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## Baalf (Nov 14, 2017)

dogryme6 said:


> Some Day you will Run Out of Anthro Animal Games to Play. *When that happens, you will need to grow some thicker skin, fur, scales, whatever surface layer protection your persona has, and play games that don't feature anthro animals.*
> Games that feature... Humans. They might feature Only humans. Do not worry, this is normal. The Villains can be anything, Do not worry, this is also normal. So do not get upset over something so silly as humans being the good guys and fighting anthros that are the bad guys.



...No.

You know what, no. It's clear you guys don't even want to attempt to understand why it's such a big deal for me, so I'm not even going to waste my time going into details you're not going to register. All I'm going to say is that it stems far beyond the furry fandom and into our own, real life species. The more you guys ridicule me and post offensive gifs, the more I'm going to be intollerant to media that portrays us as gods golden miracle, and until we get our heads out of our ass, realize that we're not perfect and we cause problems that we just sweep under the rug, I feel like I will ALWAYS have a problem with that type of media.


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## TheGBADude (Nov 14, 2017)

How to make amazing game
1. Cars
2. Real life modifications to said cars in game
3. ???????
4. ***Profit.***


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## dogryme6 (Nov 14, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> ...No.
> 
> You know what, no. It's clear you guys don't even want to attempt to understand why it's such a big deal for me, so I'm not even going to waste my time going into details you're not going to register. All I'm going to say is that it stems far beyond the furry fandom and into our own, real life species. The more you guys ridicule me and post offensive gifs, the more I'm going to be intollerant to media that portrays us as gods golden miracle, and until we get our heads out of our ass, realize that we're not perfect and we cause problems that we just sweep under the rug, I feel like I will ALWAYS have a problem with that type of media.



Games were created to escape reality with. Yes humans as a species should acknowledge our own problems, but maybe you shouldn't be looking to entertainment for that, because chances are you won't find such acknowledgements there.


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## TheArchiver (Nov 14, 2017)

BennyJackdaw said:


> ...No.
> 
> You know what, no. It's clear you guys don't even want to attempt to understand why it's such a big deal for me, so I'm not even going to waste my time going into details you're not going to register. All I'm going to say is that it stems far beyond the furry fandom and into our own, real life species. The more you guys ridicule me and post offensive gifs, the more I'm going to be intollerant to media that portrays us as gods golden miracle, and until we get our heads out of our ass, realize that we're not perfect and we cause problems that we just sweep under the rug, I feel like I will ALWAYS have a problem with that type of media.



No one here has ever once said we were perfect. Not even remotely made the implication.
And they're video games. Get over yourself.


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## Stratelier (Nov 14, 2017)

TheArchiver said:


> It also isn't developed by a studio of upwards to 80-100 professional developers financially backed by Sony Computer Entertainment. So I can forgive less than outstanding art direction if the gameplay is up to par.


So can I, but first impressions are pretty hard to break -- and especially if they didn't hook you to begin with.

Which reminds me, I need to go get _Rain World_ like now.


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## Fuzzylumkin (Nov 15, 2017)

I wish there were more anthro mmo's or like playable anthro characters. World of Warcraft has some.. but man..i am seriously torn up about the worgens... I want to play a werewolf, but I hate the alliance so much


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## Candy Cougar (Nov 18, 2017)

Some of my favorite games star anthro characters. Some of my personal favs are Beyond Good and Evil, and more recently Ni No Kuni and Undertale. Human characters living alongside anthro-characters ftw. I think a lot of people (including non-furries) are drawn to anthro-characters because we were exposed to a lot of anthro-characters as children. Think about it, many of the books, toys, and shows aimed at children revolve around anthro-characters. Maybe this serves to endear those characters to us because of a natural affection for animals, which is often developed at a very young age. I know that when I see games with animal characters, I find myself having an affectionate, almost nostalgic feeling for those characters.  Also, sometimes when a distinct human appearance is removed from the equation, an animal character with human behaviors becomes easier to relate to. Maybe not for everyone. But certainly for me. :3


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## Tenshio (Nov 18, 2017)

I certainly find games with anthro protagonists or supporting characters to be more appealing, for sure!
Also, I would go on to say that games with mainly anthro characters can be huge successes as long as the game is good and the anthropomorphism isn't just a gimmick to sell more to a target audience.  Take Dust: An Elysian Tail for example.  It's one of few (as a percentage) overwhelmingly positive indie games on Steam and I'm sure it has a large amount of non-furry fans.


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