# Ay yo, this is Kanapi



## Kanapi (Jan 31, 2006)

Yo this is meow Kanapi Simbian Rejoice Hellion Miles,
You know nothing about me, you never heard of me, but you gonna cause I'm here to stay an' you ain't gonna smoke me outta here.
Hi there furry fellas, I'm forth!  8) 
This forum is pretty yiffed up but I like it. 
Yo anyone gonna say hello to Kanapi?
I'm a shooting star, don't make me shoot you.


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## Khor (Jan 31, 2006)

uh, hello, please don't shoot me   welcome to the forums


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## yak (Jan 31, 2006)

hello there, and nice to see you!. .... welcome to the forums...
PS ни фига себе!


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Jan 31, 2006)

Aye!  Sorry for being so late making my rounds!

Welcome to the forums, Kanapi!  I be Silver R. Wolfe, Silver for short, and I'd like to take the time to offer you a fond and warm welcome to this humble collection of messages.  I hope you have a great time here and meet lots of other -maybe not as eccentric as me- people!


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## nikuramon (Feb 1, 2006)

welcome!


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## Kanapi (Feb 1, 2006)

Hey, seems like you guys
Are more used to seeing those cutie pies
People that always show surprise and act
Not me, I ain't having no disguise like that!
I'm me, like I am, and noone but me,
Except for maybe Hellion, the genius in controversy,
But it doesn't seem like he's showing up,
So I'm staying, wassup, take it on, Ima rock!

(Not literally, I'm just crying it out loud to be heard)


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## TORA (Feb 1, 2006)

You are a very good poet. ROWR.


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## Midnightdragon22 (Feb 1, 2006)

Hi, Kanapi and welcome to the FurAffinity Forums.^^
Just make yourself at home and join right in. You'll fit in just fine with the rest of us.


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## Kanapi (Feb 2, 2006)

Yo TORA, not a poet, a lyricist. What I'm doing is called lyricism.   
'Fit in just fine', Mids? Hope I do.


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## TORA (Feb 2, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> Yo TORA, not a poet, a lyricist. What I'm doing is called lyricism.
> 'Fit in just fine', Mids? Hope I do.



Sorry. My choice of English words was bad.


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## Kanapi (Feb 5, 2006)

Awright, I  know some have heard my "Misery" thing but noone wants to leave posts about it. Is it that terrible? C'mon guys you can tell me right off, at least here.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Feb 5, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> Awright, I  know some have heard my "Misery" thing but noone wants to leave posts about it. Is it that terrible? C'mon guys you can tell me right off, at least here.



'Scuse me?  I have no idea what you're talking about... >.>


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## Kanapi (Feb 6, 2006)

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/57897/
That's what I'm talking about.


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## Grave (Feb 6, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> Awright, I  know some have heard my "Misery" thing but noone wants to leave posts about it. Is it that terrible? C'mon guys you can tell me right off, at least here.



You have to realize something. In this fandom people rarely care about ANYTHING unless they can wank off to it.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Feb 6, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> You have to realize something. In this fandom people rarely care about ANYTHING unless they can wank off to it.



Aren't you the pessimist. ^-^;

I'll have you know that I don't wank off to anyone's art or stories.  It's the RPs I have with people that do that. X3


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## Grave (Feb 6, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Same difference. The fact remains that 99.99% of the fandom only wants to wank off with each other for the most part.


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## uncia2000 (Feb 6, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Same difference. The fact remains that 99.99% of the fandom only wants to wank off with each other for the most part.


:lol:

Now I know... Thanks for the heads up, Grave!


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Feb 6, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Same difference. The fact remains that 99.99% of the fandom only wants to wank off with each other for the most part.



And 78.6% of all statistics are crap. X3

Anyway, yeah I know how incredibly perverted this fandom is.  I mean, FA is sorta a testament to that don't you think?


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## Khor (Feb 7, 2006)

Silverwolfe said:
			
		

> And 78.6% of all statistics are crap. X3


I wonder if that stat is in the 78.6%...


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## yak (Feb 7, 2006)

> The fact remains that 99.99% of the fandom only wants to wank off with each other for the most part.


not that i really should care, but .... 
:shock:  hey, that makes me the retarded 0.01% of the folks that actually are here for some other reason.... damn, i feel so lonely... the community rejected me... 
great, 99.99% of the entire community has just been called wanking losers. +1. funny.... uhmm, try speak for yourself next time, ok? or someone just might get a little bit offended....

as for FA beeing the testament of perverted fandom, i have to disagree. on 2 accounts. 
first, who said that furry fandom is perverted? and by feeling your connection to a particular species of real or imaginary creatures so much, that you visualize yourself as one, makes you some sort of perverted outcast, seeking a shelter in the community of alike? who are those people to tell me that i am perverted in some way? and why should i care? is having a long hair and being an active fan of 'history recreation' counts as beeing perverted too? just because it is not quite within the boundaries of the 'regular guy' stereotype? long ago i learned not to judge the entire community by works or deeds of several individuals, who might indeed be 'abnormal', and they should too..  but still, it depends on how you look at it.... Take Salvador Dali for example - how is he not perverted? 

and secondly, the only testament FA actually is, is freedom of expression.
censorship kills a lot of brilliant work, art or not. and that is a fact. just by taking the furry fandom a little closer to real life doesn't mean the works should be banned from everywhere. how is an anthro wolf with genitals rated mature and banned from majority of art sites? damn it, all the kid has to do is look a bit to the rear while feeding his dog the other day... this is a seriuos issue - why the hell teh vast majority of the 'above age' artists on the interned be denied to share their works and collaborate because the parents of some brats are too damn lazy to do some parental control? kids set the rules everywhere, yo.... except here, hehe.....  :wink: 
well, the way i see it, a community can be open and productive only when it is uncensored. and that is what FA really is - a free comunity.... and for this i thank you.... SA's,DA's, etc. history already has been written, FA is yet to be... lets avoid those really bad chapters...

edit:
a severe case of offtopic, i know. sorry...


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## Kanapi (Feb 7, 2006)

By a strange coincidence my song is just about this stuff you're discussing.


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## yak (Feb 7, 2006)

> By a strange coincidence my song is just about this stuff you're discussing.


another one? i seem to be lucky for coincidence... as for the song - try as might, every time i try i get the 'the server is experiencing a large load....' screen. sorry,.. hope the main server's SATA(SCSI?) controller arrives soon... before i freak out...


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Feb 7, 2006)

Yak, perverted is porn and let me tell you there is a big big difference between artistic nudity and porn.  In no way am I attacking the basis of the fandom as being perverted, but that doesn't mean that at the same time that alot of the people aren't.  In general, humans are usually very perverted so it only seems obvious that our fandom would have perverted people too.

You can say FA is about expression but diluting yourself to believe that two digimon characters rockin' and rollin' isn't perverted is your own problem.  Even if the characters are realistic, obviously it should still be considered perverted since you wouldn't see things like that unless you were in a porn store IRL.  If the 'above-average' artists want to be able to post their art removing the jizz from the pic might just do it.

And Kanapi, I can't see your song since it's listed as mature. ^-^;


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## Grave (Feb 7, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> not that i really should care, but ....
> :shock:  hey, that makes me the retarded 0.01% of the folks that actually are here for some other reason.... damn, i feel so lonely... the community rejected me...
> great, 99.99% of the entire community has just been called wanking losers. +1. funny.... uhmm, try speak for yourself next time, ok? or someone just might get a little bit offended....



Maybe you should chill out and stop putting words into peoples mouths?

Not at ANY time did i call the furry fandom a bunch of wanking losers, as YOU put it.

However, it is just a simple goddamn fact that most of this "fandom" is porn-related! Just look at FA! Its full of the stuff!

Look at what happened with Sheezy! More than half the user base left because they stoped allowing the one thing that made them popular, porn, and alot of that was furry based.

So you can kid yourself into thinking that you are in this fandom for some "deep spiritual, soul searching" meaning as much as ya like, but ultimately it all boils down to a big salty mess all over your keyboard.

Its just another fetish on the list of the millions and millions of other fucked up fetishes there are out there on....

*TEH INTARWEBZ!!*


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## Kanapi (Feb 7, 2006)

*silverwolfe*


> And Kanapi, I can't see your song since it's listed as mature. ^-^


Well, I can do nothing about it. No rating other than mature can be attached to this song. It's got bad language. Lots of it.


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## yak (Feb 7, 2006)

*a war against stereotypes.*



> You can say FA is about expression but diluting yourself to believe that two digimon characters rockin' and rollin' isn't perverted is your own problem.


again the stereotypes strike at me! yes, the pr0n percentage is alarmingly high here, i admit that, but under the endless piles of sexual abberation pics lie some really beautiful and clean images of people who were given a chance here to share and receive feedback on their work, censored by the vast majority of other places just for some exposed details, but nothing too disturbing. like you said, artistic nudity, not pr0n. and it were these people that i was talking about in the first place. 'the few, the proud, the mistaken'.....
personally i think there should be just 2 categories for adult art - 'clean' and 'the other'...



> However, it is just a simple goddamn fact that most of this "fandom" is porn-related! Just look at FA! Its full of the stuff!


yeah, i noticed.... and at one point i almost decided to leave because of that... but where? DA? the 'jark' issue was too damn disturbing.. SA? 
they have some seriuos problems too.. every community is flawed in some way, so i chose the lesser evil - i can live with pr0n, bugs and the slowdowns, provided that there are artists i like and can watch, rather be a part of community that actually had it's creator fired....




> Not at ANY time did i call the furry fandom a bunch of wanking losers, as YOU put it.


>> The fact remains that 99.99% of the fandom only wants to wank off 
>> with each other for the most part.
>> In this fandom people rarely care about ANYTHING unless they can 
>> wank off to it.
i only judged by your own words. but just in case i misunderstood something,  i can only feel ashamed for my post and give my sincere apologies...*sigh*  sorry... 





> More than half the user base left because they stoped allowing the one thing that made them popular, porn, and alot of that was furry based.


uhmm, carbon dioxide causes global warming... the factories are obliged to diminish their CO2 exaust, which they do. but it is olny like a drop of water in the ocean in the long run. there will always be CO2 in the air, it is the vital part of it. much like the pr0n in human nature. so this makes FA that symbolical 'breath of air'. you just have to remember that amongst the majority of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, smog and other stuff is the lesser part of oxygen, which is the core of the whole thing. 



> So you can kid yourself into thinking that you are in this fandom for some "deep spiritual, soul searching" meaning as much as ya like....


what can i say? another false assumption?  the brain was given to us for a reason, and i am amuzed by exersizing mine... i do not find the reason to kid anyone, ever. i say exactly what i think, that's all.
as for assuming i am here for 'the practical use' of the content - _DONT_ do that again, ok? i am really disgusted even by the thoughts of this 'act' alone.

and kanapi, i want to appologize for my offtopic posts in your thread. i am really sorry...


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## Grave (Feb 7, 2006)

*Re: a war against stereotypes.*



			
				yak said:
			
		

> what can i say? another false assumption?  the brain was given to us for a reason, and i am amuzed by exersizing mine... i do not find the reason to kid anyone, ever. i say exactly what i think, that's all.
> as for assuming i am here for 'the practical use' of the content - _DONT_ do that again, ok? i am really disgusted even by the thoughts of this 'act' alone.




Indeed the brain was given to us for a reason, and i myself am mearly exersizing mine as well. 
You say what you think? Good for you! I hate fake people!

To counter that, i too mearly say what i think. I am just brutally honest about it. I say what i feel, when i feel and when i feel, no matter the circumstance. It isnt my fault if people cant handle the truth these days.

So dont sit there and think for a minute that you think you have a right to tell me what i can and cannot say. ok?

If you want me to assume anything else then you need to prove to me that your not into the fandom for the porn, like everyone else is. 
You have _no obligation_ to prove yourself to me of course, but after all my years here, and after all the people i have come accross there were very VERY few that wernt in it unless it gave them some sort of sexual pleasure or fantasy to get "exited" about.

So i am not going to beleive you and will just continue to think the same of you as i do everyone else that is in this fandom. They are in it for something and it sure as hell isnt to be "cool" or "trendy"!


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## uncia2000 (Feb 7, 2006)

*Re: a war against stereotypes.*



			
				yak said:
			
		

> yes, the pr0n percentage is alarmingly high here


Have checked again and per my previous guess it's 15% or thereabouts, depending on one's definition of that loaded phrase.
Is that "alarmingly high"?



			
				yak said:
			
		

> and kanapi, i want to appologize for my offtopic posts in your thread. i am really sorry...


*nod nods*

Yeah, apologies and greetings, Kanapi! 
(Think yourself lucky you can browse FA more easily at times when it's running at a half-decent speed).


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## Azure Ocelot (Feb 7, 2006)

Um, Grave?  If you think we're so sick and fucked up and all, then why are you here?  If not to wank off to fur porn, as you seem to think we all live to do, why do you visit a fur fan site?

I do realize some furs seem to live from one porn pic to the next, but I and most of my fur friends take our furdom quite seriously.  Yes, it's part of our sex life, but it's part of every other aspect of our lives as well, so why shouldn't it include that?


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Feb 8, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> again the stereotypes strike at me! yes, the pr0n percentage is alarmingly high here, i admit that, but under the endless piles of sexual abberation pics lie some really beautiful and clean images of people who were given a chance here to share and receive feedback on their work, censored by the vast majority of other places just for some exposed details, but nothing too disturbing.



Please, I was saying in general that the people of this fandom are perverted.  I never said there weren't exceptions, but when the majority of a group is a certain way, it is common and called for to call it a perverted group of individuals.



			
				silverwolfe said:
			
		

> In no way am I attacking the basis of the fandom as being perverted, but that doesn't mean that at the same time that alot of the people aren't.


If you notice, when I posted this I said *alot* but not all.  I mean, if I said all I would be saying I didn't exist now wouldn't I?

As for DA, as long as it's not sexually explicit, I've seen quite a bit of nudity both male and female.  It's only when it becomes porn or unnecessary nudity that it will not be tolerated there.

And please, please stop calling it pr0n, it's hard to take you seriously when you do that.  Netspeak has that effect in a debate.

In my final conclusion there are many people in this fandom that are perverted, like Grave says.  There are a few people that really aren't, nor is their art, but sometimes the margin is so slim that they get caught up with everyone else in generalizations.

Simpler, the fandom isn't perverted but *most* of the people in it are.


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## uncia2000 (Feb 8, 2006)

_(I can't see an obvious way to split this thread since Kanapi's still involved/referred in many of those posts, but I'll do so if required.
And go easy, please, y'all...)_


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## Grave (Feb 8, 2006)

Azure Ocelot said:
			
		

> Um, Grave?  If you think we're so sick and fucked up and all, then why are you here?  If not to wank off to fur porn, as you seem to think we all live to do, why do you visit a fur fan site?
> 
> I do realize some furs seem to live from one porn pic to the next, but I and most of my fur friends take our furdom quite seriously.  Yes, it's part of our sex life, but it's part of every other aspect of our lives as well, so why shouldn't it include that?



In case you didnt know, i am an "artist" with many many fans (for some reason)

I have made alot of friends here, note i said freinds, not "mates".
And the vast majority of those friends arent perverted like the rest of the fandom. I have alot of people that are perverts that message me however, but they arent real friends as all they want is my porn.

This is why i can make such claims that the majority of the user base in the fandom is just here for the porn.

I will agree that a very tiny minority isnt, but as was stated earlier the margin is too small to notice.

As for why i am still here...well, ive been asking myself that very question for months to be honest with you. I dont really know why i am here myself. I hate the fandom. I hate what it has become over the years. I hate how many backstabbing bastards lurk around each corner. I have NO CLUE why i am still here or why i come back to it.

Maybe its because i like the attention my crappy scribbles has gained me, even though i hate it when people only want my porn and dont give a fuck about the person behind it. Its sad, i know. 
Maybe its because i myself am a pervert who likes to wank off to the porn as well , so if that is the case before you call me a hypocrite, i wanna just point out that i never actually claimed to be any better then the fandom or that i myself didnt get off to fur porn as well in my previous posts. I only speak from experiance and what i see with my own eyes, how people act, what they want to see, and what they say.

I only know for a fact that the subject matter in my doodles isnt anywhere near as disturbing as most of the fur festishes out there...

Or maybe it is because i am manic depressive and have bi-polar tendancies or my mind is just so fucked up that i just cant make up my mind.

I would say the latter has more to do with it, but decide for yourself.

Ultimately, i *just dont know* why i am still here.


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## Azure Ocelot (Feb 8, 2006)

Ouch.    

I'm a manic-depressive artist myself, so I may understand to some extent how you feel.  I'm a fur too, though, so I tend to get a little defensive when someone firebombs the fandom.  I guess technically we are perverts, in that we gain sexual attraction from things outside the norm (whatever that is).  But for many of us, sex is only one aspect of our furdom, not by any means the only or most important one.

Unfortunately, you're right that there are a lot of so-called furs out there who care about little but porn and smutty RPs, and they're the reason a lot of people think "furry" is synonymous with "perverted".  I get tired of encountering that reaction, but still, I can see where it comes from.

Well I don't suppose you're looking for pity, so I won't offer any.  But if you'd ever like to talk to someone, or have another artist (I'm not very talented to tell you the truth, but I try) review your work without any pornographic intent, well, I'm usually around somewhere.  If not, well, feel free to tell me to fuck off.  I don't want to make enemies here.


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 8, 2006)

> Unfortunately, you're right that there are a lot of so-called furs out there who care about little but porn and smutty RPs, and they're the reason a lot of people think "furry" is synonymous with "perverted". I get tired of encountering that reaction, but still, I can see where it comes from.



Which is part of the reason when I tell someone I like anthro art I have to specify that I don't do a lot of that stuff...Otherwise I get some kind of creeped out looks, unfortunately.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 8, 2006)

The furry fandom is no more perverted than human nature.  I would be willing to wager that if you walked outside and started asking people "Do you watch porn or have sexual tendencies?" you will find the same percentage of people answer "Yes" as you would if you made the same poll in a furry convention.  The problem with that poll is it includes both obsessive sexual perverts and the "casual" masturbator and everything between.  I think (although I do not have any research to back my hypothesis yet) that you would find that more people rest closer to the casual masturbator side of the scale than the obsessive sexual pervert side.

It is true that the majority of furries look at furry pornography.  Does that make the furry fandom sexually driven?  As much as any other thing that humans do.  The porn industry is always the first to try out a new medium.  Does that make all new mediums perverted?  No.  It quite simply means that others who want to make non-pornographic material haven't stepped in yet.

Furry is in no way a new medium.  The number of clean pictures outnumbers the pornographic ones.  Yiff artists get more watches than clean ones, that is for sure.  But it is for a simple reason: people love a strong emotional feeling, and the easiest emotion to get from people is lust.  The next easiest is humor, and you will find that people who do funny things are watched more as well.  It is simply that to draw a scene were the viewer wants to cry takes an immense amount of skill, while something that turns the viewer on is  fairly easy to do.  None of that is at all meant to be condescending to porn artists, its just a simple fact.

Pornography and sexuality is part of human nature.  Without sexual drive the human species would have died off before it ever existed.  It is only natural that something like the furry fandom would have a pornography especially seeing as it is difficult to go outside and start watching hot furries walk by and imagining what they would look like naked.  Furry is no more of a perverted or sexual thing that television or movies.


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## Kanapi (Feb 8, 2006)

*Uncia*, you do not have to do anything to prevent these dudes from these discussions. This is great material! 
*Ocelot*, I should agree with you in some ways. Who the fuck is gonna tell me what's sane to do and what's insane? How do they know who's the real psycho here? Maybe it is only those motherfucking 'normal' shit guys that are too conservative to get it that someone may receive inspiration not only from sci-fi books and Hollywood movies, but also from things so natural and so... furry )))
Just keep talking, guys. That's one goddam right point.


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## Grave (Feb 8, 2006)

Azure Ocelot said:
			
		

> Ouch.
> 
> I'm a manic-depressive artist myself, so I may understand to some extent how you feel.  I'm a fur too, though, so I tend to get a little defensive when someone firebombs the fandom.  I guess technically we are perverts, in that we gain sexual attraction from things outside the norm (whatever that is).  But for many of us, sex is only one aspect of our furdom, not by any means the only or most important one.
> 
> ...



No, im not going to tell someone who can offer such a nice gesture and a sign of support to a total stranger to fuck off.

Thankyou for that comment. Its very nice of you to show concern (something that i dont find very often these days.)
I wasnt playing the worlds smallest violin back then by the way, i was just trying to explain why i dont know why im still hanging out in this fandom.

Its scary and very frustrating when you can tell yourself one thing, yet something else inside you stops you from doing so. I dunno...thats not really for here, mental health issues and shit i mean.

But anyway, thankyou again for your offer. I dont usually like to talk about my personal stuff since i dont think people need to get depressed themselves by hearing me babble on about how depressed i am but if you would like to chat in-general try buzzing me on AIM. Im usually online most of the time but i am in the UK so you gotta think of the time differences ^-^


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## Grave (Feb 8, 2006)

Oznor said:
			
		

> The furry fandom is no more perverted than human nature.  I would be willing to wager that if you walked outside and started asking people "Do you watch porn or have sexual tendencies?" you will find the same percentage of people answer "Yes" as you would if you made the same poll in a furry convention.  The problem with that poll is it includes both obsessive sexual perverts and the "casual" masturbator and everything between.  I think (although I do not have any research to back my hypothesis yet) that you would find that more people rest closer to the casual masturbator side of the scale than the obsessive sexual pervert side.
> 
> It is true that the majority of furries look at furry pornography.  Does that make the furry fandom sexually driven?  As much as any other thing that humans do.  The porn industry is always the first to try out a new medium.  Does that make all new mediums perverted?  No.  It quite simply means that others who want to make non-pornographic material haven't stepped in yet.
> 
> ...



I agree with what you are saying completly! Great post! ^-^

You are right, this fandom is no more perverted than anything else in human nature. However what i was trying to debate with people is that we are all in here for that same reason, one way or another.
What i cant stand is people that go around saying that they are in it for some deep spiritual meaning, because thats BS. It all boils down to the exact same thing in the end, as you said, human nature.

I only even brought up the subject because i hate those types of egos like the one i just pointed out above. Its like they think they are better than everyone else or something, and that gets on my nerves.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 8, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> However what i was trying to debate with people is that we are all in here for that same reason, one way or another. What i cant stand is people that go around saying that they are in it for some deep spiritual meaning, because thats BS.



I have to disagree with you here partly on the fact that blanket statements are something that bother me much like condescending egoists bother you.  But also because I see the furry pornography not as the cause of furries, but the furries as the cause of the porn.  Much as a gay person would seek out homo-erotic pornography, a furry would go for furry porn.

Let me try to put it another way because that isn't making much sense to me, and I'm writing it...  A person does not necessarily become a furry because of furry porn.  There is some deeper (mal?)function that turns someone to furdom.  For some people it is a deep spiritual attachment to an animal, while others its simply "ZOMG cat ears is teh s3xx0r."

And who can say that indeed there aren't some who completely despise all that is yiff?  (KAK anyone?)  Shoot, running out of time, have to head to class.  I will finish my thoughts on this afterwards!


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## Grave (Feb 8, 2006)

Oznor said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its usually a case of:
14 year old+parents basement+internet connection+discovery of porn+hours and hours of searching and looking at different types of porn+being a horny confused teenager=furry%lots of yiffing as it is readily availiable and free, more so than normal porn.

At least thats mostly what i have found it to be. This doesnt account for EVERYONE but a very large number of people...

And KAK....well...shes even more of a fucked up mental case than i am! Its hard to take anything which that..._thing_ says seriously!


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## Kanapi (Feb 9, 2006)

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! You're going in a wrong direction! There's already been a song about "14 years-basement-all that shit". It's performed by Eminem featuring Aerosmith and called "Sing For The Moment". Ah, most of his songs are either about himself or about kids listening to him. Rap must have more things to blame than that! One of the standard points is "it is fucking hard not to die in this sick world" and I've just used it. I need something else.
Guys,
gimme some real stuff. Ask me questions - addressing! Please!
*Grave*,
can you talk about something else at all? At least inside the topic called "Ay yo, this is Kanapi"?


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## Radric (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm a male asexual furry philosophical Taoist... person noun thingie!

*ahem*  Alright, now that I'm hoping to have a good number of this thread's viewers sidetracked from what's been going on by thinking  "WTF was that random blurb all about?", I'd just like to give out a shout to Kanapi.

I wanna set things right,
So excuse my stage fright
Because I'm a bit shy
And I'm the kind of guy
Who doesn't care to shine
That style isn't really mine
But I really must say
Always a better day
When more come along
Helps keep this place strong
I don't want to disappoint
So here's my final point
Now that you've come aboard
*Welcome to the FA horde*!

Hmm... I guess that's not bad for the suburban home slice of white bread that I am.


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## Grave (Feb 9, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! You're going in a wrong direction! There's already been a song about "14 years-basement-all that shit". It's performed by Eminem featuring Aerosmith and called "Sing For The Moment". Ah, most of his songs are either about himself or about kids listening to him. Rap must have more things to blame than that! One of the standard points is "it is fucking hard not to die in this sick world" and I've just used it. I need something else.
> Guys,
> gimme some real stuff. Ask me questions - addressing! Please!
> *Grave*,
> can you talk about something else at all? At least inside the topic called "Ay yo, this is Kanapi"?



Yo, dont just ask *me*, ask everyone else who has had a say in the goddamn conversation too! Sheesh!

Oh yeah, and this is a "_GENERAL CHAT_" forum...so go figure...


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## Azure Ocelot (Feb 9, 2006)

Grave's right, Kanapi.  All of us have been getting a bit off topic, it's not fair to single out one person.  And forum threads have a habit of going off-topic, anyway... the same way a conversation between two or more people will naturally branch off and diversify in different directions.  It's silly to expect otherwise.

In any case, I asked because I felt some real concern, and also, Grave, your post echoed some of my own thoughts about similar subjects posted in my journal just a couple of days ago.  Struck close to home, so to speak.  So I'll keep an eye for you on AIM, since you're right, this probably isn't the best place to air one's mental grievances.  Ideally it WOULD be, as an open forum in a furry community, but in truth... well... yeah.  Probably not a good idea.


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## Kanapi (Feb 10, 2006)

Ay go easy on me bud. When a teacher wants to stop a fight between children (I mean lots of 'em) he grabs a random person and lifts him by his ear. See what I mean?
Okay, get it, all topics lose their topic sooner or later. It doesn't ring any surprise bells 'side my head. But the fact you are not ashamed to admit it... to admit you come to discuss one thing and discuss the other and it is all right to you!
Okay *Ocelot*, I'll just walk away and watch you talk about how freakish you are and how bad you want your current state not to be considered freakish! Come on, keep watering down water!

Hey *Radric*, thanks for your greeting! Would you help me deal with these topic benders?


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 10, 2006)

> Okay, get it, all topics lose their topic sooner or later. It doesn't ring any surprise bells 'side my head. But the fact you are not ashamed to admit it... to admit you come to discuss one thing and discuss the other and it is all right to you!
> Okay Ocelot, I'll just walk away and watch you talk about how freakish you are and how bad you want your current state not to be considered freakish! Come on, keep watering down water!



Huh? ; I honestly don't see what you mean by that with the 'freakish' comment. Having a mental illness doesn't make you a freak, imho. Really since we all have our own perceptions of normalicy we are all considered freaks by at least one other person in the world. 

It's really not such a big deal if a welcome thread goes off topic, usually a welcome thread only gets one or two folks saying "hey, nice to meet you" and then it dies. I didn't even bother to post one for that reason. This is actually one of the longest I've seen. 

So, why don't we just chill and let things go where they will go, or start a new thread?


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## Kanapi (Feb 10, 2006)

> It's really not such a big deal if a welcome thread goes off topic


Hey Arrow, this was never meant to be just a welcome thread! It doesn't say "Hi there", it says "Ay yo, this is Kanapi"! But I realized I should let the people say anything just to get the topic running, thanks to you. So I'll just let guys talk about whatever they like! G-g-guys?..

All right, anybody alive, theme done, wouldja tell me anything about how you tell good fellas from bad fellas. I'm dying to know!   
Can a man who kills people be good? What if he was killing people back in 'Nam just to come back home to his wife and children?
What if he robs a bank? What is he has been jerked and fucked up by that bank and left without any living?
What if he kills his own wife? What if he found her cheating with three guys at once and letting them have most of his family budget?
What if he comes up to a man and hits him in his stomach? What if that man insulted his mother and made them both look stupid some time before?
What is logic? What is morality?


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 10, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> > (snipped)
> > What is logic? What is morality?
> 
> 
> ...


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## Kanapi (Feb 10, 2006)

*2 Arrow Dude*


> Morality is flexible based on the individual.


It sure is! Well, I heard that Dostoevsky is the one Russian author you know best. I mean his "Crime And Punishment" thing. It was all right for Raskolnikov to kill that old woman, according to his theory there were people meant to become great, so they were allowed, even supposed to go through killing and all that shit. And it was noone but that girl who made him go and tell himself off. This stuff is called 'mentality influence'. Whatever you are, no matter how strong your point and position is, there is always something - or someone - that can really change the way you think. Raskolnikov's 'morality' thing was imprisoning - literally - but can we say it nothing but wrong?


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## Azure Ocelot (Feb 10, 2006)

*Go ahead, Kanapi*

You can consider me freakish if you want.  I just hope you show a little more sensitivity and compassion if a member of your family is ever diagnosed with a mental illness.

Yes, I admit that I've hijacked your thread.  I didn't do it to spite you, though, but because another topic came up that I felt I should comment on.  Deal with it.  Just because you start a thread doesn't mean you own it or get to control the direction it goes in.  This is the Internet, yo.

I'm going to leave you to play with your ego now and join a more interesting thread, if I can find one.  Grave, my offer still stands-- I'll keep an eye out for you on AIM.  Arrow, have fun discussing morality.  Everyone else, CIAO.


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## Grave (Feb 11, 2006)

Azure Ocelot said:
			
		

> Grave's right, Kanapi.  All of us have been getting a bit off topic, it's not fair to single out one person.  And forum threads have a habit of going off-topic, anyway... the same way a conversation between two or more people will naturally branch off and diversify in different directions.  It's silly to expect otherwise.
> 
> In any case, I asked because I felt some real concern, and also, Grave, your post echoed some of my own thoughts about similar subjects posted in my journal just a couple of days ago.  Struck close to home, so to speak.  So I'll keep an eye for you on AIM, since you're right, this probably isn't the best place to air one's mental grievances.  Ideally it WOULD be, as an open forum in a furry community, but in truth... well... yeah.  Probably not a good idea.




The problem is, as soon as somebody see's that you have a weakness, they will rip you apart because of it. The first chance they get they will use all of that shit to their advantage and unfairly tear you to shreds with it, like the dick-less bullies that they are...as you found out, Ocelot.

Oh yeah, Ocelot, i havnt been on AIM in the past couple of days because i have had the flu, and its highly unlikely that i will be back on my normal AIM schedule for another couple of days probably. Man i hate being sick. Especially with the flu cos it fucks up your sense of smell thus making everything taste like shit and i like to eat! lol

But yeah i still wanna talk to you too so whenever i get rid of this bug hopefully you will be able to catch me then. ^-^

Oh, and to Kanapi. This isnt *YOUR* forum. As was already stated just because you post a thread that doesnt give you ownership to it. Its a public forum. Deal with it.
You should be pleased that it has become a surviving 4-page thread instead of a 1 page dead-stick like many threads tend to become.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 11, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Oh, and to Kanapi. This isnt *YOUR* forum. As was already stated just because you post a thread that doesnt give you ownership to it. Its a public forum. Deal with it.
> You should be pleased that it has become a surviving 4-page thread instead of a 1 page dead-stick like many threads tend to become.



It is not his forum, however it is his thread, and that should give him at least some moderating power.  Also, I think that you and Azure have taken a bit too much offense to Kanapi's rudeness.  Sure, I agree that calling you freaks for your mental health issues is something to get upset about, but its over now.  What is said is said, and you each got your kicks back at each other.

Now what I find interesting about this situation is how easy it is to make some people flip.  Simply a well placed stab at a disability and one person leaves, and another strives to start a grudge match.  And such behavior is not "childish" in that it is limited to the young and immature because you can see similar things occur leaders of countries.  What is it that leads to a man developing a hair trigger?

In this situation (and I apologize if I offend) I would be willing to bet that Grave, you have long been harassed and targeted by schoolyard bullies.  Over years of social abrasion you learned to have a sharp tongue and a short fuse as a way of getting back at those who offended.  Now I make no pretenses at being a psychologist, but I do pretend to know a little about human nature, so I might be completely off, maybe I came dangerously close to the truth.

I had something more to say, but it seems to have slipped my mind at the time.


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## Grave (Feb 11, 2006)

Oznor said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can i hire you to be my psychotherapist? 

That was the closest diagnostic of my condition that anyone has ever got and you dont even know me! 

Fucking doctors and their god complexes dont know shit...

But anyway, yes i have been bullied *ALOT*, in the past. Back then i was afraid of the bullies but now, i have turned that fear into boiling fits of rage. So i should think that if someone tried to bully me in RL today, id smash their skull in but i wouldnt know i did it as i would have no control over my actions. Anger management issues as well as manic depression and bi-polar tendancies...great eh?

And, well...when ignorant fucks deem you a freak because your head is fucked up through no fault of your own you tend to get a little pissed off about it after all the shit youve had to deal with in all the years that youve had the condition.


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## Azure Ocelot (Feb 11, 2006)

Amen to that.

I didn't really flip out, though.  Ijust left because I didn't want to get mixed up in an argument online.  I've been in far, far too many of those for someone who really doesn't like confrontation.  Still, in case I was unclear before, I'm not leaving the forum and possibly not even leaving this thread.  I simply didn't feel like getting into it any further at the time.

Still, rude people need to be put in their place.  Otherwise they keep being rude, which is unpleasant for everybody else.  One needn't bother a mod with such a little matter as someone calling you a name, after all-- I'm perfectly capable of handling myself.  And I tend to defend others from unfair accusations as well, since, to be perfectly honest, other people seldom bother to defend me.  I know what it's like to have no one even trying to understand you.

As for bullies, I've run into more than a few.  Instead of the short fuse, I tried to adopt the detached, apathetic approach.  Still, I don't like to see other people being, well, assholes.  If that happens I'm bound to speak up.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 11, 2006)

Sorry, Grave, I'm more psycho, less therapy usually.  So unless you want advice like "Suck it up you four eyed wimp!" (I'm so sensitive), I would recommend you stay with the ignorant morons who call themselves doctors.  They will atleast pretend to help, even though their caring and effectiveness is fairly dubious.

To Azure, I didn't mean to intone that you had left the forum, simply the thread because in your previous post you seemed to have said you were leaving it.


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## yak (Feb 12, 2006)

oh boy, this thread has more issues then a news stand 
so my 10 hour essay is finally completed.  yay! how am i not a psycho for writing this?!  just my oversized .02 cents, and a little food for thought



			
				Azure Ocelot said:
			
		

> Yes, I admit that I've hijacked your thread.



first of all, if anyone has hijacked this thread, it was me. right from the beginning.... all the things that happened here were planned ane way or another: planned to achieve multiple goals at once, both personal and not.

*first one: welcome kanapi, show support.*
when kanapi started this thread, i was really surprized when i took a look at his location. at that point i almost abandoned all hope of meeting someone who actually lives relatively 'close' and speaks my native language. so far it has been North America and the west culture for the most part (_alien_ to me, i might add). i kind of thought i'd make a special greeting for him. and give him some support...
beeing a rapper makes you hungry for 'material',  which can be of 2 varieties: first, the 'anger', second - the 'phylosophy'. i myself enjoy quite a bit of the latter, but the 'misery' song was more anger-oriented. so i tried to kill two rabbits with one shot and steer the thread both ways.

and it was also very convenient for Grave to adress the 'porn' issue in the  furry community. i wanted to hear other people's oppinions on it for some time now, just to see if and how they differ with mine... and to try to understand, exactly _why_ are they doing it... but imagine me just asking  a silly 'why you are drawing porn that i hate so much?' question. so i acted 'offended' by the words about perverted fandom and posted some morale about the freedom, which itself would be considered perverted.  those _were_ my real oppinions, but normally i wouldn't  state them like _that_

kanapi, now that i know what material you need i will try to supply you with it. and oh boy, am i excited to do so! 

*second: give people something to talk about*
this forum was feeling hollow. the 'welcome wagons' were getting old, nothing really but bugs were discussed. come on, the forum was not providing people with any entertainment once so ever. rarely any person except for the few i know would bother spending their time here, for it will provide little next to none value. even the technical linux forums are more fun, i tell you.
and you could be discussing so many things! sharing experience, oppinions, fun..... make the time spent here worth every minute of it. really, is there nothing to talk about in the ART community of 1643 registered users!?! 
guess not, so i set this phylosophical discussion in motion..... and will set a lot more in the future, if not banned for freaking everyone out 
but there's a problem - people here take stuff to seriuosly, too personal, they are too much concearned of what the others think of them. Half of all the posts are actually the explanations of what exactly did the author wanted to say in his previuos post. What is wrong with you people? you cannot possibly be concearned with what the other 3 billion strangers think about you! it is just too silly, besides being impossable.

*third: learn some more english*
i realize my english is crap. and i know less then half of the dictionary. besides, misuse of words is a seriuos issue of mine. so every post counts in my educational process. i learn from you folks! and language is just a small part.. and that is partially why i am writing this right now.

*fourth: phylosophy*
like i said, i enjoy it. share my ponderings and review others' , if anyone would be willing to state them. some may not agree, but this is very usefull and amusing. there was a guy who helped me to turn my life upside down with his advice once, for which i will forever be greatfull. i just feel that your(mine?) views on life and other stuff can help others too. you'll never know untill it happends..... besides, phylosophical mood will eventually get you get you drawing symbolic art, which i love above all .


so this is it. i have a very mixed feelings about what i've done and what i've now written. and i actually cannot make up my mind about the whole thing. there was a moment when i was terrified that i actually pulled this stunt. but one thing for sure - i really enjoyed Oznor's posts... 

now the last section will be related to Grave. i started this shit, and i feel obliged by my conscience to end it, fearing that i might be misunderstood or fucked off instantly. but at least i'll try... literally this means i will be offending you on all the levels there are. call it a theropy. 
so you say you like to be brutally honest about things?  ok, this is how i will keep this.
and for starters, stop acting like an immature perpetually offended and ever depressed emo ass already! sheesh! you sound just like my teenage sister.
have you never thought that a good deal of people you instantly fuck off or freak off are actually trying to help you? not because they are so 'high and mighty better then everyone soul reaching purebloods', but just because they are generally good, altruistic people? note that i didn't say compassion instead of the help, because compassion is for the weak.
you say you got mental issues - but ever wondered, who cares and why should they care? more then that - do you actually want someone to care? to feel pitty for you? do you actually find yourself SO worthless and weak that you crave for pitty to feel better? tell you what - mental issues are all fun and trendy games for everyone to play in teenage, but they really start to bother you later. about time to abandon them for good, or put them to good use.
depression is a sweet mood, but utterly useless - because your brain cannot  'function' normally. consider it a privilage wich has to be learned by 9 hours of work a day. and in the mean time try to keep a bright look on things - it really helps to live through a lot of bumps in your life without going sorrow ass.
now look - i have a friendly advice for you -  just go to urbandictionary.com, look up a word 'emo' and read through all 6 pages of definitions. then think for some really extended time. it helped me back then to realize just what a fool i was.... 



> What i cant stand is people that go around saying that they are in it for some deep spiritual meaning, because thats BS. It all boils down to the exact same thing in the end, as you said, human nature.
> 
> I only even brought up the subject because i hate those types of egos like the one i just pointed out above. Its like they think they are better than everyone else or something, and that gets on my nerves.


*sigh* deja vu... not again.... understand this - you are _SO_ wrong in this case. just think - what do you know about me to make such a suggestion? 


> I only speak from experiance and what i see with my own eyes, how people act, what they want to see, and what they say.


exactly! you've never seen me before, never heard of me before, never seen my actions before - why are you assuming so much about me? 

are you my conscience? you have no idea who i am, but you instantly stick me with this ugly label, and more then that, actually want me to prove something to you to withdraw your words. besides, blanket statements do not just get forgotten like that with me. call it the difference of cultures.

is there something wrong with my mentality for beeing here not for the porn?  if you cannot stand this fact - this is really your issue. so why do you hate me so much?



> The problem is, as soon as somebody see's that you have a weakness, they will rip you apart because of it. The first chance they get they will use all of that shit to their advantage and unfairly tear you to shreds with it, like the dick-less bullies that they are...


so let's just wallow in our sorrow  for the rest of out lives instead of actually getting over it, or dealing with it. lets hate the fucked up world, the stupid fucking people you see every day and those really paranoid freakish fucks, whose oppinions differ from ours. and lets call them names and dump entire portions of our personality so that the people would really know just how fucked up things are for us. because this is what you do.
realy, you literally throw all of your weakneses right in their faces, let me tell you!. just look at how merely 2 posts got you into telling everyone a good portion about yourelf. but i will give you one thing - you have the courage  not to delete them.
and of course they will tear you to shreds! just for fun (and what a great deal of fun it is!), or simply because they 'can'. you cannot expect everyone out there to be polite, level headed fellows.



> Its usually a case of:
> 14 year old+parents basement+internet connection+discovery of porn+hours and hours of searching and looking at different types of porn+being a horny confused teenager=furry%lots of yiffing as it is readily availiable and free, more so than normal porn.


yes, but have you ever thought of people who actually do not have a house with a basement, just a 35 square meter rusty apartment with 5 people living in it, and they actually have to pay for the internet themselves, but to use it they need to have a computer, wich they have also have to buy. and just to survive, they work hard day and night. so to use the computer they need to find some free time. did i tell you that these people also study and pay for their and their sister's education themselves? that they actually looked hunger and despair in the eye a little too many? and all this is not actually even a half of it all. tell you what, this is a playground for mental issues.

now come on, your life cannot possibly be any worse then mine was untill recently. yet i manage to keep a bright outlook on things and keep my problems MINE, even more - i am completely satisfied with my life and how i settled it. it is just a mater of self-belief and a little determination. it could have been worse, you know..... so i am happy.

that is why i give you another advice - if you are getting the severe case of 'aww, fuck, i hate the world again' mood - walk outside our house for half an hour, wearing little next to none clothes. freeze almost to death, feel your connection with the elements. then get inside and enjoy simple yet powerfull pleasure of your regular everyday warmth flowing through your body. drink a cup of hot tea and think about that you took this this state for granted for too long. feel the wormth of your own bed -  because you have it! and you can! be happy about it!:wink:

now if you are going to find some free time in my daily shedule to actually make the use for all the porn, maybe then i will consider it to be art some day, untill then i will keep hating and silently ignoring it . 

well, if you actualy read the entire bulk of this text and come to this, i just want you to notice that it was written using your style of post writing, heh, even some of your own sentences were used.  if you do not like it, maybe then you can understand all the people who reply to them.

finally, for the love of all things good - don't you dare to think that i enjoyed writing this. now what i wanted to do is just help you realize that this current state you are in is just overblown remnant of your childhood, needed to be dealt with a long time ago. pitty or compassion would have simply added the fuel to the fire, so i had to use brutality. lets see if you can handle it. i will simply ignore any insults you may want to throw at me after reading this. but i hope you will understand. PERIOD!


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## Midnightdragon22 (Feb 12, 2006)

Hi, Kanapi and welcome to the forum. I told you you'd fit right in...*laughs*

As for me..i like to draw pr0n and look at it too. It gives me ideas for situations to RP on IM's. So just slide me into whatever category i fit into and welcome to the family. *waves to people in other categories*


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## Grave (Feb 12, 2006)

Heh, well i fail to see how bullying someone with words can help them.

Ok, heres a few *facts* that i think you need to know.

Depression varies from person to person. We are all individuals, right? There fore, our illnesses are different from one another also.

What may have worked for you, wont work for someone else, and the whole "tough love" approach, dont work for me so you wasted your time there, but i thankyou for your....erm...time?

Although i will thankyou for your honesty, more people need to stop hiding their feelings and speak their fucking mind, gets on my nerves when people hold back shit that needs to be discussed!

I wont bother with any stupid schoolyard insults, just as you wouldnt bother reading them anyway, yet i find it funny how you think its ok for YOU to throw them around as much as you like. *shrugs*

So im an "immature perpetually offended and ever depressed emo ass already!" huh? Do i look like i give a shit?
Can you honestly sit there and think that i give two flying fucks what you think about me?



> have you never thought that a good deal of people you instantly fuck off or freak off are actually trying to help you?



You say that people have been trying to help me? Or that i "fucked people off"?

Who the hell has tried to help me in this thread? No one, thats who. As i never asked for any help so i dont understand what your trying to get at there...



> you say you got mental issues - but ever wondered, who cares and why should they care?



A little concern for a fellow human being, isnt a hard thing to cough up...



> do you actually find yourself SO worthless and weak that you crave for pitty to feel better?



Erm...yeah...like duh. You have *NO IDEA* how worthless i think i am sometimes. I often question if i am worth the air that i breathe on a daily basis. However i am not weak, if i was, id be slitting my wrists because of what you said, dontcha think? Now *THATS* emo. Emo is for spotty little teenagers who havnt had any experiance in life. Trust me dude im not even in the same ballpark, not even the same fricking state! You have no idea the kind of life i have led. The things i have been through, the stuff i have seen. Ive done alot in 20 years, probably more than some people would do in a lifetime.
Thats not just an egotistical comment there, its just a fact, but take it as you wish.



> mental issues are all fun and trendy games for everyone to play in teenage, but they really start to bother you later



Yes, i am fully aware of this, hence why i am seeking treatment. However the mental health departments in this country are slower than George Bush, so nothing ever gets taken care of. All you get is a bunch of pills all the time, no real treatment as of yet. And ive been suffering from this BS for going on 10 years.



> about time to abandon them for good, or put them to good use.



This statement *CLEARLY* shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. I usually dont waste my time with such ignorant stupidity, but since you took the time to write your book, i figured i would write one in return.



> and in the mean time try to keep a bright look on things - it really helps to live through a lot of bumps in your life without going sorrow ass.



You think i havnt already heard that very statement a *MILLION* times before?  As i said, you dont understand depression it seems, or if you are depressed your condition isnt as deep as mine and some other peoples.



> exactly! you've never seen me before, never heard of me before, never seen my actions before - why are you assuming so much about me?



You are guilty of doing the *EXACT* same thing to me...funny that eh?  :roll: 



> you have no idea who i am, but you instantly stick me with this ugly label



If you dont want to have an ugly label then get out of furrydom! I wont be the only one to think that your only in it for the porn like nearly everyone else, so in your own words, deal with it.



> so why do you hate me so much?



I've never hated you, this has never been a question of hatred, dunno when it became one...sorry you thought that, but despite your ignorance towards mental health, i still dont hate you, just as i never have hated you. I dont even know you so how can i hate you?



> you literally throw all of your weakneses right in their faces, let me tell you!. just look at how merely 2 posts got you into telling everyone a good portion about yourelf.



I have nothing to hide. Thats all i need to say in response to that. 

When i said that people will rip you apart at the drop of a hat, i was  meaning it as a warning for others. Im strong enough to not give a shit if someone chooses to stoop so low to use something like someones health issues against them. It used to bother me, but these days, i simply couldnt give a fuck!



> you have the courage  not to delete them.



Again, nothing to hide, so why would i?



> and of course they will tear you to shreds! just for fun (and what a great deal of fun it is!)



If you wish to gain pleasure from such a pathetic medium then be my guest, you wont get any feedback from me through it though.
Schoolyard insults and petty name calling, just dont affect me anymore. Why? Well, ive been around this sort of behaviour too long now for it to affect me anymore, and no matter what anyone says to me, ive probably called myself worse things already. Ive become desensitized (sp?) to such "attacks".



> you cannot expect everyone out there to be polite, level headed fellows.



You think that i dont already know this?!! Man gimmie at least _some_ credit!



> now come on, your life cannot possibly be any worse then mine was untill recently. yet i manage to keep a bright outlook on things and keep my problems MINE, even more - i am completely satisfied with my life and how i settled it. it is just a mater of self-belief and a little determination. it could have been worse, you know..... so i am happy.



Heh, ok, good for you then.



> well, if you actualy read the entire bulk of this text and come to this, i just want you to notice that it was written using your style of post writing, heh, even some of your own sentences were used.  if you do not like it, maybe then you can understand all the people who reply to them.



My style? Didnt know i had a style, if so i want full credit and royalties when its used.   



> don't you dare to think that i enjoyed writing this



You say that yet earlier you said its alot of fun to tear someone apart..(which you havnt done to me fyi) So i find that statement hard to beleive but, whatever.

Ultimately, you dont know shit it seems, about me, or mental health issues. If you did....well..lets just say you yourself would have understood and would have been a little less....rough.

But thankfully i am strong enough to not let something like what you said affect me so im fine...well...fine as can be in my current state of a flu-ridden manically depressed loser.
However next time you wish to make a post like that, try to remember that im not some stupid teenager thats talking out of my ass.

I am 20 years old. I have a wife. I have been around this planet more times than a satellite and seen more shit then you could ever imagine! Ive been up the at the top on the highest branch, and then down with the lowest piece of dirt.  So take that into consideration next time before you post a message with a degrading tone like you think your talking to some "emo" teenager, ok?


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## yak (Feb 12, 2006)

so you been everywhere and done everything? tell someone who cares.

look - no therapy in the world will help you untill you rebell against your own nature. period.


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## Grave (Feb 12, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> no therapy in the world will help you untill you rebell against your own nature. period.



heh, well that didnt make much sense at all.

Its not about self help, because some people cant help themselves.

But then again if you think your some animal you have worse mental issues then i do!


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## yak (Feb 12, 2006)

at least find enouth respect for the community to keep my issues PRIVATE


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## Grave (Feb 12, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> at least find enouth respect for the community to keep my issues PRIVATE



Again, in-general concern for a fellow human being isnt a hard thing to do. I was having a conversation with someone else about mental health and *you* stuck your nose in.

Anyway, who can honestly, seriously, respect furrydom? Theres nothing to respect.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 12, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> at least find enouth respect for the community to keep my issues PRIVATE



Yak, you really aren't helping the situation at all.  No one here leapt out and attacked anyone.  All those who have been offended thus far have come here under their own volition, so please stop flaming.  Previous to your interruption all active participants had something to add to the discussion that was at hand.  I am sorry for you that it was not a discussion you were comfortable with, or that you simply did not want to participate in.  But next time, rather than attack those having a conversation, please just turn a deaf ear.



			
				Grave said:
			
		

> Anyway, who can honestly, seriously, respect furrydom? Theres nothing to respect.



Grave, you have offended me with that statement.  I am not clear if you consider yourself a furry, I mean you are in a forum for furries, yet you constantly bash it.  Personally, of all your idiosyncrasies, this one I find the most offensive.  As a person who has long experienced being bullied I would hope that you would recognize the anger and hatred that insults can summon.

As far as "respecting furrydom" goes, I am not sure one can "respect" such a thing as furry on the basis that it is not a noun.  And I would hope people would base their respect for a person on their outward actions.  Such things as whether they are a furry or not should not affect your respect for them.  If they go to a convenience store and put a packet of powdered doughnuts in their pocket, then you should lower your respect for them.


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## yak (Feb 12, 2006)

Oznor,  to tell you the truth, i was not offended at any level, any time, and i didn't mean to blindly attack him, i just wanted to make those rusty cogs in his brain to make a full turn... *fears that this will be torn out and commented too* and i failed... well, not completely....

but you are right, i really said more then enouth, and a litle too much then i really wanted to, and in the wrong time. made an ass of myself in other words, or worse  *sigh*. sorry... if you see me do that again, just ban me, i really mean it. 

and a little note - my nick is written with a small *y*, for it is only the acronym of my RL name, and my horoscope sign.


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## Kanapi (Feb 13, 2006)

Ay, nice threads man.   
Hey *yak*, sorry for a little messup wit my shout on your page. The moterfucker doesn't display cyrillics! Hope this thing does. Anyway, it went "йиффать мя кобылой". Just a little interjection of mine   

And just for y'all to know, I don't do 'intercepting' comments on the topics so long. I may LOVE Grave go SHOUTING at us every single WORD, I won't show it. What I will say, I love to hear you saying this stuff about these touchy, almost scandalistic subjects. After all, I'm pretending to be considered a rapper. 8) Have you ever seen a furry like me rap in that 'real world' 2Pac, Snoop Dogg and Bizarre-Kuniva-Swift-Proof-Eminem style? Bet you haven't.

I'm planning to submit a new record. Get ready, it's called "Hellion". Little philosophical, I might add. Mostly "if you want to fuck with me then fuck with me and I will fuck with you back so we'll come to a sexual harmony". May not be a good one, but it first seemed funny as fuck.   

Hey Mids, you was wrong man, I ain't no fitting, me still separated from the guys, in a high-motherfucking-morals way. I thought saying "We're all psychos" would be less offending then "You're fucking sick, go and kill yourself, it helps!". I was wrong...


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> Oznor,  to tell you the truth, i was not offended at any level, any time, and i didn't mean to blindly attack him, i just wanted to make those rusty cogs in his brain to make a full turn... *fears that this will be torn out and commented too* and i failed... well, not completely....
> 
> but you are right, i really said more then enouth, and a litle too much then i really wanted to, and in the wrong time. made an ass of myself in other words, or worse  *sigh*. sorry... if you see me do that again, just ban me, i really mean it.
> 
> and a little note - my nick is written with a small *y*, for it is only the acronym of my RL name, and my horoscope sign.



lol, you did fail beleive me, since there was nothing to backup your words. And even after i put you in your place with my over-long winded reply, you avoided it and said nothing, which makes your novel before that, kinda moot.

Dont start what you cant finish.

heh...rusty cogs...thats a good un! -_-


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

> Grave, you have offended me with that statement.  I am not clear if you consider yourself a furry, I mean you are in a forum for furries, yet you constantly bash it.  Personally, of all your idiosyncrasies, this one I find the most offensive.  As a person who has long experienced being bullied I would hope that you would recognize the anger and hatred that insults can summon.
> 
> As far as "respecting furrydom" goes, I am not sure one can "respect" such a thing as furry on the basis that it is not a noun.  And I would hope people would base their respect for a person on their outward actions.  Such things as whether they are a furry or not should not affect your respect for them.  If they go to a convenience store and put a packet of powdered doughnuts in their pocket, then you should lower your respect for them.



I am sorry that offended you but it is mearly how i feel. 
No, i am far, *far* from anything even close to a furry.
But i have been in the "business" for over 5 years now. As for my reasons for staying in such a place when i clearly hate it so much, well i already stated those reasons in a previous post a few threads ago.

But ultimately, look at the facts. What is there to respect?
1. the infinate number of trolls and spammers?
2. the equally infinate number of single-minded art-whores who only want to know you for your porn and couldnt give a shit about you otherwise?
3. All the backstabbing bastard "friends" that stop talking to you and spread untrue rumours about you just because you stopped drawing for them?
4. All the sick, twisted fetishes there are out there? I dont mean the general ones, like normal F+M sex, fat admiration, hyper endowment and what have you, but i mean the ones like scat, incest, baby furs, yuk.

I could go on and on but i am still sick with the flu and brain power isnt in abundance right now....heh, fuck who am i kidding its *NEVER* in abundance!


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## dave hyena (Feb 13, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> No, i am far, *far* from anything even close to a furry.



You draw/view furry art and post on a furry forum on a furry website and interact with other furries. 

Therefore by the standards of general parlence you are a furry.



> 1. the infinate number of trolls and spammers?
> 2. the equally infinate number of single-minded art-whores who only want to know you for your porn and couldnt give a shit about you otherwise?
> 3. All the backstabbing bastard "friends" that stop talking to you and spread untrue rumours about you just because you stopped drawing for them?
> 4. All the sick, twisted fetishes there are out there? I dont mean the general ones, like normal F+M sex, fat admiration, hyper endowment and what have you, but i mean the ones like scat, incest, baby furs, yuk.



That's life. Not just furry fandom.

Indeed, furry fandom is but an ASPECT of life.

My advice is to ignore things you don't like (because all your efforts will be for naught) and indulge in only what you like.

Forsooth and verily indeed.


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

I might be out of my league in saying this, but...

Let type F be "furry"
Let P1(x) be the property "draws furry art" of x of type F.
Let P2(x) be the property "posts on a furry forum on a furry site" of x of type F.

To disprove "P1(x) is true for all x of type F", there must be an x of type F where P1(x) is false.  In other words, to disprove that drawing furry art is a property that is true for all furry individuals, there must be a furry individual who does not draw furry art.

Similarly, to disprove that posting on a furry forum on a furry site is a property that is true for all furry individuals, there must be a furry individual who does not post on a furry forum on a furry site.

If both P1(x) and P2(x) can be disproved, then one is left with "interacting with other furries".

Now, let X be "interacting with other furries".
Let Y be "being a furry".

To disprove that X implies Y, there must be a case where Y is false, or in other words, to disprove that interacting with other furs implies being a fur, there must be a case where one is not a furry yet interacts with other furs.

So, is there even one person who considers himself or herself a fur who doesn't draw furry art?  Is there even one individual who considers himself or herself a fur who doesn't post on furry forums on furry sites?  Is there an individual who does not consider himself or herself a fur yet interacts with furs?


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just because i draw it and view it *doesnt make* me a furry. I am not a furry. 
Heres why...
I do not think i am some animal under my human exterior. I do not wear or even want to wear a fursuit, nor do i draw a "fursona" of myself to represent me as a furry. I also do not wish to "yiff" someone in a fursuit, and i do not RP as a 6-tailed peacock with a seven foot long wang on SecondLife.
I also do not attend furcons or furry meet up groups and i do not try to sell all my drawings on Furbid.

I only draw anthro-ised humanoids because they are fun and easier to draw than humans are.

I will say it again, just because you draw, view, and talk with furries, that *doesnt make* you a furry.


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

Radric said:
			
		

> I might be out of my league in saying this, but...
> 
> Let type F be "furry"
> Let P1(x) be the property "draws furry art" of x of type F.
> ...



Whaaat? My brain hurts now, what does all that mean?


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> I do not think i am some animal under my human exterior. I do not wear or even want to wear a fursuit, nor do i draw a "fursona" of myself to represent me as a furry. I also do not wish to "yiff" someone in a fursuit, and i do not RP as a 6-tailed peacock with a seven foot long wang on SecondLife.



Well, the only thing I can agree with in that list that might help define someone as a fur is having a "fursona" for oneself.


I don't think I am an animal under my human exterior.  My "fursona" is more a... hmmm... representation of a psychological division of my full persona, I suppose one might say.
I know of a few furs who also don't wear/own/plan to wear a fursuit.  I myself have thought about it, toyed with the idea, but I'm still undecided about it and therefore don't wear nor own one.
As an asexual, I personally have no desire to "yiff", in any situation.
While I do go around in Second Life in one furry avatar or another, I have always been myself.  I pass on the seven foot wang and related accessories.  My art (and the art I choose) imitates my life, so to speak.

And yet, throughout all that, I still consider myself a fur!  **chuckles**


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Whaaat? My brain hurts now, what does all that mean?



**laughs**  I guess in a nutshell, it means that, logically speaking, I doubt that the properties "drawing furry art", "posting in furry forums on a furry site", and "interacting with other furries" are defining properties which will all make someone a fur.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 13, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Whaaat? My brain hurts now, what does all that mean?



Basically he is defining furry in the same way that Dave Hyena defined being a furry, only Radric put it in crazy moon talk.  It reads as follows:



> Let type F be "furry"
> Let P1(x) be the property "draws furry art" of x of type F.
> Let P2(x) be the property "posts on a furry forum on a furry site" of x of type F.



Translation:  The two things that can define a furry are "draws furry art" and "posts on furry forums."



> To disprove "P1(x) is true for all x of type F", there must be an x of type F where P1(x) is false. In other words, to disprove that drawing furry art is a property that is true for all furry individuals, there must be a furry individual who does not draw furry art.
> 
> Similarly, to disprove that posting on a furry forum on a furry site is a property that is true for all furry individuals, there must be a furry individual who does not post on a furry forum on a furry site.



Translation:  To show that "draws furry art" does not make a person a furry, you need to find a furry that doesn't draw furry art.  And to disprove "posts of furry forums" making someone a furry, one must find a furry who does not post of furry forums.



> If both P1(x) and P2(x) can be disproved, then one is left with "interacting with other furries".



Translation:  If you find a furry who does not "draw furry art" and a furry who does not "post of furry forums" then "interacting with other furries" make a person a furry.



> To disprove that X implies Y, there must be a case where Y is false, or in other words, to disprove that interacting with other furs implies being a fur, there must be a case where one is not a furry yet interacts with other furs.



Translation:  To show that "interacting with other furries" does not make one a furry, you have to find a non-furry who interacts with furries.

Alright, I think I translated that correctly.  And to answer two of your questions:  I know a furry who does not post of furry forums, and I know many people that interact with furries and are not themselves furries.


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Oznor said:
			
		

> Basically he is defining furry in the same way that Dave Hyena defined being a furry, only Radric put it in crazy moon talk.



Yay for crazy moon talk!

Also, where Dave Hyena made it sound definite, I made it more a matter of question.



> Alright, I think I translated that correctly.



Yesh!



> And to answer two of your questions:  I know a furry who does not post of furry forums, and I know many people that interact with furries and are not themselves furries.



And I know of someone who considers himself to be a fur yet doesn't draw a gosh-darn furry thing (or much of anything else, for that matter).


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## Captain Oz (Feb 13, 2006)

Radric said:
			
		

> Oznor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well then, between the two of us that just about puts those definitions to rest.

I would define someone as a furry simply as one who seeks out anthropomorphic artworks or designs.  That would be people who, if given a choice, would go for "Dogs playing poker" instead of Jeramiah Lamenting.  The fursona, fur suit, yiff, and animal spirit are all additional things that may or may not come with the territory.

I myself have a "fursona" in that it is a anthropomorphic character that I use to represent myself at times.  And I do have a fur suit in production, and do seek out "yiff" art at times.  However I believe myself a human, so no animal spirit.  Of course my atheism and complete disbelief of the spirit plays a large part in me not saying I have an animal spirit.  I consider myself a furry in that I would take Dogs Playing Poker over almost any Rembrandt.


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## dave hyena (Feb 13, 2006)

Radric said:
			
		

> To disprove "P1(x) is true for all x of type F", there must be an x of type F where P1(x) is false.  In other words, to disprove that drawing furry art is a property that is true for all furry individuals, there must be a furry individual who does not draw furry art.



Note that I said “in common parlance” (i.e everyday conversations) and I did not say that those definitions applied to all furries, merely that they make Grave one in this case.

It is utterly pointless to start debating what makes someone a furry (or indeed come under the umbrella of any noun or whatnor) or not using artificially high standards of “truth” since you are immediately going to get bogged down in issues like how the meaning & usage of words is only a social construct.

It is enough to say that If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, then forsooth and verily: it is a duck.

If someone draws furry art, looks at furry art and posts on a furry website & forum, then they are a furry by the duck test.



> I would define someone as a furry simply as one who seeks out anthropomorphic artworks or designs.



Anthromorphic animals do you mean?

An anthromorphic design would simply be one where someone ascribes human attributes to something that does not normally have them.

By your definition children who draw the sun with a smiley face are thus furries, or someone who uses smileys (which impart human attributes to circles). 

It is enough to say that someone is a furry if they appreciate anthromorphic *animals* and interact with other people who also appreciate the same. Forming collectively, a bloc, which is known as furry fandom.

Of course, one can demolish this if one invokes philosophical standards of truth, but then one would be unable to define furry at all, therefore rendering the word useless. Yet at the same putting forth ones own definition thereof, which one is rendering moot.


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

Radric said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now, wouldnt have that been *ALOT* friggin easier to type in the first place?  :roll:


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Radric said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is up to the individual to say what they are, it is not your right to deem what they are and what they _arent_ unless you know someone right down to the size of their pinky toe nail on their left foot.

You can fuck 'em around all ya like and say shit about them behind their backs to your hearts content but such words are *NEVER* the truth.

I am *NOT* a furry, and i dont care what anyone else says. And i will stick to the fact that just because someone draws furry stuff, or "_anthropomorphic animals_" that *DOES NOT* make them a furry.

Only i know what i am, as only you know what you are (hopefully) Some people dont even know who they are yet, but i do. And one thing i can say for certain is i am not a furry!

Its discriminative type-casting bullshit like this which pisses me off.


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## Captain Oz (Feb 13, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Anthromorphic animals do you mean?
> 
> An anthromorphic design would simply be one where someone ascribes human attributes to something that does not normally have them.
> 
> By your definition children who draw the sun with a smiley face are thus furries, or someone who uses smileys (which impart human attributes to circles).



I do not believe a single person did not understand that "animals" was implied.  A great thing about the mind is that it can take things in context and understand that even though something might not be explicitly spelt out, it is still meant in a certain way.  You clearly knew I was referring to anthropomorphized animals.  Perhaps I should have said zoomorphized?  To attribute animal characteristics to another object.  But even that is a little vague.  Zoomorphized anthropos?  Is that exact enough to satisfy all?

To Grave:  I am willing to bet that your pinky toe nail is 6-7 mm wide and 5-6 mm deep.  Sorry to use the metric system, its just easier to use than fractions of inches.

Also, is your definition of a furry:  one who is "some animal under a human exterior," wants/has a fur suit, has a personal fursona, and enjoys "yiff," and RPs as a furry character?  Or would like to refine that to a more reasonable definition?

So far the definitions as I have seen are:

Mine (one who seeks "Zoomorphized anthropinos" art work or designs)
Dave Hyena (one who draws/views furry art, posts on furry forums, and interacts with other furries)

Radric, did you throw out a definition?  If you did, I apologize for I seem to have forgotten it and can not find it.


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Note that I said ?in common parlance? (i.e everyday conversations) and I did not say that those definitions applied to all furries, merely that they make Grave one in this case.



**laughs** Yes, I did notice that "common parlance" comment.  No, they do not make Grave a furry.  Sorry, but this "common parlance" "logic" is faulty.  Nothing of what you said proves that Grave is a furry, but what can be proven is that Grave and furs have overlapping interests/actions.

And in order to say that those definitions would make Grave a fur, then those definitions themselves have to define what a fur is.  If they were not definitions of what a fur is, then they cannot be used to define Grave as a fur.  And by their natures, definitions have to consistantly apply to every member that they define, otherwise they cannot define all the members and the definitions become false.  Since your definitions do not define all members who are considered furs, those definitions are false and do not prove that Grave is a fur.



> It is utterly pointless to start debating what makes someone a furry (or indeed come under the umbrella of any noun or whatnor) or not using artificially high standards of ?truth? since you are immediately going to get bogged down in issues like how the meaning & usage of words is only a social construct.



Well, if it's "pointess" to debate what makes someone a furry, then it's equally "pointless" to debate who is furry, since one can't say who is a furry without knowing what makes someone furry.  In other words, your attempt to define Grave as a fur through the artificially "high standards" of your "truth" is equally "pointless".



> It is enough to say that If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, then forsooth and verily: it is a duck.
> 
> If someone draws furry art, looks at furry art and posts on a furry website & forum, then they are a furry by the duck test.



And what an erroneous test that has proven to be!  In any case, nothing has been put forth that definitely proves that Grave is a fur, but, again, it can be shown that Grave and furs have overlapping actions/interests.


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Oznor said:
			
		

> Radric, did you throw out a definition?  If you did, I apologize for I seem to have forgotten it and can not find it.



No, I don't think I've explicity stated a definition.

Loosely stated :  a fur is one who appreciates and prefers something that displays or possesses a combination of both human and animal characteristics.

The "ratio" of human to animal surely differs, but the appreciation and preference are still there.



			
				Grave said:
			
		

> Its discriminative type-casting bullshit like this which pisses me off.



With instances like this, I can understand why you have some resentment for this fandom.  Even though this basically amounts to nothing, I do apologize on behalf of those who try to force a label upon you.  To reiterate what I've stated elsewhere, I don't view you as a fur, just as someone with interests and actions in common.


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Now, wouldnt have that been *ALOT* friggin easier to type in the first place?  :roll:



Yeah, but I'm all about doing things the hard way!  Besides, the crazy moon talk was fun to do!


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## Grave (Feb 13, 2006)

Radric said:
			
		

> With instances like this, I can understand why you have some resentment for this fandom.  Even though this basically amounts to nothing, I do apologize on behalf of those who try to force a label upon you.  To reiterate what I've stated elsewhere, I don't view you as a fur, just as someone with interests and actions in common.



I thankyou for your understanding on the matter Mr. Moontalker ^-^


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## Radric (Feb 13, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> I thankyou for your understanding on the matter Mr. Moontalker ^-^



Well, I do _try_ to be understanding.  I also fail at times, but I do try.  Ah, I'm starting to babble!

In any case, you're welcome. 

Hmm...  Radric Moontalker... **snickers** I like!   :lol:


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## dave hyena (Feb 13, 2006)

> **laughs**



*farts* 



> Since your definitions do not define all members who are claim to be furs, those definitions are false and to not prove that Grave is a fur.



Your entire argument is based on a straw man, since nowhere did I state that those definitions and those definitions *alone* defined furry and I   *DEFY*   you to find any statement where I state that those definitions alone comprise the sole arbiter of what makes someone a furry.

I merely stated that your average man on the street would agree that grave is a furry since he commits actions/has interests which you would agree, that in other people, make them a furry when combined with each other or certain other interests which also fall under the furry rubric.

Unless of course you want to deny that things like appreciating anthromorphic animals (for is not drawing anthromorphic animals and viewing their art and even favoriteing it "appreciating" it?) can constitute part of what makes someone furry.

We do not all need to be artists of anthromorphic animal artwork to be a furry, yet we can be artists of anthromorphic animal artwork and a furry thus.

Equally, we can be an artist of anthromorphic animal artwork and not be a furry, *HOWEVER* when we start fulfilling other boxes on a checklist, like interacting with other furries, posting on a furry website and viewing furry artwork, it becomes rather difficult to deny that one is not in fact a furry. Since one is starting to fulfil the requirements for what people commonly agree makes one a furry.

I view anthromorphic animal artwork, create it, +fav it and interact with other +fav'ers and creators of the aforementioned.
If I am a furry thus, (and will you deny that I am?) then so is grave.

Of course, you can turn around and say: 

"Who defines the meaning of furry?"

Of course, there is no objective empirical measure of this, since it's a word, a social construct.

However, in this case you will find that other people have agreed that things like viewing anthromorphic animal artwork, drawing it and interacting with other people who like the same on a site created for such a purpose, as part of a body which calls itself the furry fandom does indeed constitute part of what makes people a furry, which is as good a definition you will get for any word ever.



> A fur is one who appreciates and prefers something that displays or possesses a combination of both human and animal characteristics.



From a POV of logic and truth, one should remember that humans are animals and therefore your definition is technically incorrect. 

So, you are appealing to connotations and context in using the phrase "animals" therefore you are using everyday speech (i.e. statements, phrases et al, that may have some ambiguity or require some interpretation to divine their correct meaning), therefore you are also using common parlance to define what furry is.



> do not believe a single person did not understand that "animals" was implied. A great thing about the mind is that it can take things in context and understand that even though something might not be explicitly spelt out, it is still meant in a certain way.



The same applies here.

EDIT: for spelling.


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## Azure Ocelot (Feb 14, 2006)

Oookay, so we've more or less established that no one can arbitrarily decide whether someone is or isn't a fur, right?  It's more or less something you've got to define yourself as.

Overall, I've noted that there are "fur artists" who draw furries but don't consider themselves such, and there are "true" furs who actually consider themselves to have a fursona, animal spirit, whatever.  Most of these don't actually believe they're not human, although many do believe (as I do) that species is something, like nearly everything else, that human beings can choose, not physically but spiritually.  Let me simplify that: the sole thing that makes us different from other species on this planet is our ability to choose (our destiny, our lifestyle, etc.), and that means, even though we were born into human bodies, we can choose to be something else.  We won't change physically, but in every other aspect, reality is perceived by our imagination-- if we believe it real, it is.

I know, that's too much for some, and some people just like to dress up as animals because they feel they are cuter or more lovable as animals.  Or, because they feel that furries are more open about sex than most people (true of many, though by no means all).  In other words, some join for the yiff.  Are they true furries, then, or just people who dress up in fur costumes to indulge a sexual fetish?  Is "furry" a term for the sexual fetish, the art style, the lifestyle, or what?  When someone says they're a fur, does it mean they have a fursona, dress up as animals, enjoy having sex with other people dressed as animals, or simply draw anthropomorphic animals?

Again, it's all pretty arbitrary.  It basically comes down to, you are what you say you are.  No one else can adequately define you.  I say I'm a furry, in that I have a fursona and consider myself part of the fur community (whatever that is).  I say that and I'm proud of it.  No one else can therefore say I'm not a fur, just because I don't fall into their definition.  Likewise, if Grave says he's not a fur, no one else can make him be one.


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## Kanapi (Feb 14, 2006)

Hey, this looks like enough talkabout for a twenty-minute rap song! I won't do any of those, though.   
Hey, for a little chillout, want me to tell you an anecdote about national pride? That's all I'm good at since there has been no other attempts to do the same.

_Okay, now there are three men talking (in a train, round the fire, on the Internet, no matter). So one of them goes: "Hi, I'm Jean from Paris, and every night I make love with at least three beautiful women". The second's line is: "Right, I'm Mike, I'm from New York [from New York...]. My portion is two women a day, that's what I'm sure to get". Will you guess who's the third one? He says: "And my name is Vasya, I live in Moscow, and I always have one girl a night to fuck".
The next day they meet again, right when their conscience starts to go on them, so Jean says: "I was not telling the truth, I'm really lucky if I have one girl a night". Mike replies: "I also lied. Actually, I haven't had sex for a month!" Then Vasya goes: "That's okay guys, I was lying too. I live in Moscow Region"._

Man, I'm no good at that! I can't tell jokes for fuck! Now this shit may not have made you smile, but I did the main idea. Any points? Or, maybe, more chitchat about 'f-u-r-r-i-e-s defined'? I propose some movement, fellas, c'mon! 
Aww... You're still silent like Grave.  8)


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## Kanapi (Feb 15, 2006)

Okay, my thread seems dead, but I'm not, so just to make it interesting I think I'll post me pre-lyrics for that "Hellion" thing since I won't write them in the submission comment. Here it goes:

HELLION
(by Kanapi)

1st VERSE:
I'm mister lonely, do my records alone and they don't
Even know to what I'm gonna grow, how to call me
And if I sold it, motherfuckers would call me
And talk it all over like they wanna expose me.
But I'm unexposable yet, they forgot this and they
Say I'm gonna rock meaning they would rather fold and then
Post me to some homie who smokes dope and knows 
Hardly what this modern world is about. Noone knows me
That's because of those songs I make and the way I act.
They say my songs are all sad, hell yeah my songs are sad,
What the fuck do you think I should be laughing at?
Maybe you want me to make jokes on your sick-minded ass?
My parents needed money really bad, so they sold me
At the same store they once said they had bought me
But I escaped the store and came back home knowing
I shouldn't be mad at them cause this was when they really needed money.

CHORUS:
Though I've seen many things I remain Hellion
In despite of my age I remain Hellion
Thought I said what I meant I am not bad guy
It is that you just can't justify Hellion

2nd VERSE:
My full name is Kanapi Simbian Rejoice Hellion Miles
Come on and laugh at it, but first try and repeat it twice!
What I do is the most unpopular kind of music
They hear it and say "It's okay, I just don't listen to it"
Motherfuckers, why did I even bother to do it
If I talk my mind off and they don't even get a word
That I'm saying. They think I'm playing and gonna change
In a few years. Just imagine how great it is to play
With personalities! Like I just pretend Hellion
I don't pretend, Hellion is my fourth name!
Where did I get this name? Oh, I made it up, okay,
But this never allows you to faugh and doubt what I say!
Because Ima say this on stage just like Taylor and May,
And when I say it, the whole hall will stop preying my name!
Taxes we pay, to Hellion listen, to God pray!
I just dream of real freedom of speech, cause I remain...

CHORUS:
Though I've seen many things I remain Hellion
In despite of my age I remain Hellion
Thought I said what I meant I am not bad guy
It is that you just can't justify Hellion

3rd VERSE:
My dearest friends have fur and soft paws
When I make a pause, it means I have run out of thoughts
But not literally, I may have just forgot
What I was about to talk of. (And so I sing it up)
When you think the brackets open, I cosider them close.
But you listen to these songs, at least you're supposed to
You hear me swear a lot when I blame all those who
Think I'm just another sick motherfucker who goes
Rapping in the verse, then singing in the chorus.
And there's no man in the world to tell them who's the boss
So I will, as I say, go and shoot these hoes!
Maybe I shouldn't but... God knows!
My parents said: "We don't get it, we're Russians", they did
They acted as if like I weren't their own kid
Who didn't know exactly the same things they did
But I'm sure about it, unawareness is better for them.

CHORUS:
Though I've seen many things I remain Hellion
In despite of my age I remain Hellion
Thought I said what I meant I am not bad guy
It is that you just can't justify Hellion

4th VERSE:
My name is Hellion. "Beat is high, rhymes are low"
Creating four verse songs and making them worst in the world
I could not even find a rhyme to the word "orange"
Till Soble the Sable came and said it was "door-hinge"
So I've decided to extend the line and make it four-inch
With this new workbench my songs would acquire more range.
Picking the lockers, breaking into the data storage,
Hacking and downloading the files would make me the word king!
Psyche, I'm just kidding, you know I won't rob shit.
When I posted my first song, some man said lines are long and
I have flunked a line when I forgot the words and did a dong.
Wrong! Little did he know is that it was a thought of
Mine and it just went the way originally composed.
Shit, I'm experiencing one line shift, that's it!
Motherfuckers, if you want to fuck with me then fuck with me and
I will fuck with you back so we'll come to a sexual harmony.

CHORUS:
Though I've seen many things I remain Hellion
In despite of my age I remain Hellion
Thought I said what I meant I am not bad guy
It is that you just can't justify Hellion

Let me remind you, the song is out and into FA when it's done, that is no longer than a week.


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## Kanapi (Feb 24, 2006)

Hey, doesn't nobody love rap no more?
Come on, any ideas, what if I grow to become some kind of... rap performer that everybody knows, and in one of my interviews I say: "Yeah, of course it's me who's writing lyrics, and it's me who tells me what I rap about. But there was a person, whose name was... uhhm... [Azure Ocelot?] and [she] was the one who had made a great deal to me". Wouldn't YOU like to be mentioned. Huh?   
Any comments are welcome. Come on guys, show me some respe... I mean, support!


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## Grave (Feb 24, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> Hey, doesn't nobody love rap no more?
> Come on, any ideas, what if I grow to become some kind of... rap performer that everybody knows, and in one of my interviews I say: "Yeah, of course it's me who's writing lyrics, and it's me who tells me what I rap about. But there was a person, whose name was... uhhm... [Azure Ocelot?] and [she] was the one who had made a great deal to me". Wouldn't YOU like to be mentioned. Huh?
> Any comments are welcome. Come on guys, show me some respe... I mean, support!



This is a furry porn community so unless what you rap about can get someone off your thread is gonna remain dead.


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## Kanapi (Feb 24, 2006)

Hey *Grave*, would you like a song from me called _"Get Yiffed"_? Hey, that would be a real club classic! Since I have no objections, I'm getting to it.


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## Grave (Feb 24, 2006)

Kanapi said:
			
		

> Hey *Grave*, would you like a song from me called _"Get Yiffed"_? Hey, that would be a real club classic! Since I have no objections, I'm getting to it.



That would probably get you more attention that you seek. However i am not interested in it personally.


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