# DO today's cartoons suck?



## wyanewill (Dec 14, 2007)

Well do they? After watching stuff like Family Guy and Futurama, I call that a big yes.


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## Gol22 (Dec 14, 2007)

I say yes.

New episodes of cartoons are really lame.... they take out most of the funny and jokes they put it in. Such as Spongebob, not as funny as the old ones. x.x


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## Charrio (Dec 14, 2007)

Today's Cartoons suck so badly, I dont even bother to see what they are about they are so terrible and all the stupid remakes are killing even the memories of great cartoons, like the cheesy new Transformers coming out where they are done by the Crappy Teen Titans makers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers_series#Transformers:_Animated

Poster
http://www.superpouvoir.com/Team/JayWicky/Transformers-poster.jpg


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## Digitalpotato (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes.

Part of it is because of this mentality that "If it's a cartoon, it has to be for children and chidren only - teenagers cannot enjoy cartoons, unless it's Japanese or full of sexual Innuendo/Potty Humor like Family Guy". And also that "It has to be funny, unless it's Japanese or Pixar. And even then there's still comic relief, sometimes in the form of comic-relief characters and filler garbage."

There are exceptions, like Gargoyles, and Avatar: The last Airbender. (Although they are trying to be funny at some points.)


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## DARKWOLFE (Dec 14, 2007)

i can,t answer with a yes or no to me it,s  more like alot do but then there are a good number that don,t  but i guess if those two answers are the only choices then i,ll say yes


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## caboodles (Dec 14, 2007)

I'm a sucker for older Nickelodeon cartoons which were from the 90's.
Cartoons like Rocko's Modern Life, Aahhh Real Monsters, The Angry Beavers etc.
Now that I sit back and watch them these days, the jokes made on them were rather funny!:3


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## the-shadow-of-light (Dec 14, 2007)

i wouldent say that i todays cartoon sucks " dont kill me! >.<" BUT all remakes do..

like transofrmers 2000 remake and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" not that id watch em now a days anyway" but i caught a glips of em not long ago and god they sucked!..

i do like famely guy and simpsons though x3 ...but amarican cartoons scare me like that pommes dude the meatball and that soda holder 0.o where the f did they come from!?


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## Renton Whitetail (Dec 14, 2007)

I would have to say yes, though I personally wouldn't use the term "suck" to describe the quality of both the new animated shows today and new episodes of the current cartoons that are on the air.  It seems to me that both of those qualities are diminishing and losing many of the things (such as great humor and good writing) that worked so well for many cartoons in the past.



			
				Gol22 said:
			
		

> New episodes of cartoons are really lame.... they take out most of the funny and jokes they put it in. Such as Spongebob, not as funny as the old ones. x.x



This is one good example for what I'm talking about.  That "Atlantis Squarepantis" episode didn't seem all that great to me compared to  earlier episodes.



			
				caboodles said:
			
		

> I'm a sucker for older Nickelodeon cartoons which were from the 90's.
> Cartoons like Rocko's Modern Life, Aahhh Real Monsters, The Angry Beavers etc.
> Now that I sit back and watch them these days, the jokes made on them were rather funny!:3



Ahh, yes, the 90's.  Those were good times (along with the '80s ).  So many good shows like those during that decade.


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## DragonRift (Dec 14, 2007)

Oh god, yes they suck.  I think around 1996 was where things started descending into the garbage heap.  Even Nickelodeon was deteriorating, it was almost heart-stopping.  I remember kickass classics like *Rocko's Modern Life*, *Aaah! Real Monsters*, and the original *Ren & Stimpy* glorified my weekday afternoons.  Wait, there has been one cartoon that came about within the last decade that screamed "brilliance", but was canceled due to low ratings...  *Invader Zim*.

Then I also remember how fresh and original some of the silly toons were becoming, for shows like *Animaniacs* and *Freakazoid* had me in tears on many occasions.  The Disney Afternoon actually had shows worth our time, like *Talespin*, *DuckTales*, *Gummi Bears* and *Darkwing Duck*!  Silliness didn't stop there, though.  The original *Scooby-Doo* will always have a warm, happy spot in my memories.  ^__^  And when I mean original, I mean before the days of that obnoxious little shit, Scrappy.  I'd name off more, but that would just turn this post into a book.  XD

Jump over to the more action-oriented side, and we had the ORIGINAL *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles* series, as well as *Batman* and *Superman*.  Go back further and we enjoyed the hell out of *G.I. Joe*, *Transformers*, *Thundercats*, *Dinosaucers*, and even *Go-Bots*.   You know... back in the days where humans were drawn with correct, realistic proportions, and not gigactic, funny-shaped heads with horribly skinny bodies.

Animation in general today just sucks.  No one sits and hand-draws every single frame and background anymore.  No one pays attention to add detail to their characters anymore.  Notice how bland and lifeless they are in comparison to what they were 15+ years ago.

And do Saturday mornings even have cartoons anymore?  And if so, do they still span across three to four channels from 5am till noon?  Yeah, I didn't think so.


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## Odjit-Sanura (Dec 14, 2007)

I actually enjoyed the CG ninja turtles movie.  I thought it was rather good, and I like how they beefed out Raphael.  i however dont like newer cartoons cause they're too kiddy or downright annoying. 

I miss watching Beetlejuice, the older episodes of senceless violence in the bugs bunny show, and things like oldschool transformers, voltron, and he-man/she-ra

Heck, I even saw rainbow bright the movie...and that one wasnt as kiddy as the shows they make today.

i will also admit, Family guy is funny, but could always be improved on the animation front.

I usually only watch the more serious animes and they're probably considered old now (ghost in the shell, vampire hunter d-bloodlust)


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## HonorableThief (Dec 14, 2007)

Easily. I mean, there is a rare gem like Chowder every now and then, but boy do most of them reek compared to stuff from the 90's/early 80's.


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## Rilvor (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes, today's cartoons are repulsive.

And while nothing will ever come anywhere near Batman: The Animated Series that aired in the 90's, today's cartoons fail so horribly it isn't even funny.


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## pinkplushii (Dec 14, 2007)

The only cartoon I actually enjoy watching is Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, and old episodes of spongebob.

Everything else is just...agh.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Dec 14, 2007)

To be totally scientific, you'd have to define "back then" versus "now", make a list of ALL the cartoons available, poll a random selection of people to rate the cartoons, and then graph what percentage of "back then" cartoons were rated as sucky versus how many "now" cartoons. 

But, my subjective and totally unscientific opinion is that yeah, there seems to be fewer good cartoons now. Maybe this is the fault of the cartoons - I think random and potty humor is funnier in small doses, and I prefer well-drawn cartoons like *The Venture Bros* over intentionally crappy computer animated crap like *ATHF*. Maybe I'm just more picky nowadays.


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## Rilvor (Dec 14, 2007)

random humor and fart jokes and the like were funny...back when every single show wasn't doing it.


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## Poetigress (Dec 14, 2007)

Early to mid-90s were great--mainly because of Tiny Toons and Animaniacs, for me at least.  And yeah, the older SpongeBob episodes were much better -- the newer ones they've been showing are nowhere near as good.  It's like they decided to just be strange in their setups instead of coming up with something simpler that can spiral out of control and actually be funny.  That Atlantis Squarepantis was so hyped, and then it was just... eh.  Makes me wonder if they lost some of their better writers.

There used to be some stuff on Cartoon Network that was worth watching -- I liked Powerpuff Girls -- Johnny Bravo was fun in small doses -- and what the heck happened to Samurai Jack?  I loved Samurai Jack, and the show just seemed to disappear one day when I wasn't looking.  Now about the only thing that seems worth tuning in is Duck Dodgers, for a little hint of what the old-style Warner Bros. humor used to be like.  (And they show that on Boomerang, of all places.)

And can someone please tell me why even Boomerang barely shows any classic Looney Tunes anymore?  Am I going to have to go shell out a ton of money to buy all those Gold Collection DVDs just to see Bugs Bunny again?  They show hours of Hanna-Barbera crap, for heaven's sake.  >_<


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## Rilvor (Dec 14, 2007)

Back when I was watching cartoons, Boomerang was playing stuff like Top Cat and Yogi Bear...what do they play nowadays?


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## Adelio Altomar (Dec 14, 2007)

Old Nickelodeon cartoons (Angry Beavers, Hey Arnold, Rugrats, Rocko's Modern Life)
Tom and Jerry, Looney Toons


I liked those first sets of cartoons because I grew up with them. I used to watch them alot as a kid. And they were cute! ^^


Avatar, Samurai Jack, and Futurama
Avatar is a good cartoon and good cartoons don't need humor to be good, contrary to many people's belief.

Samurai Jack was a beautifully made cartoon with little dialogue and natural funny jokes every so often. It had action, drama, and very good story arch. What did happen to that cartoon anyway?

And Futurama I just enjoy because I like the stupid random jokes they put out with sci-fi. I'm a fan of such crazy stuff and you need a little bit of crazy in your life. 


However, the humor they add in cartoons is strained. They try too hard to make laughter from the audience and in the end they just make a mess that's more than shit in real life. People try too hard.


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## kittysonikku (Dec 14, 2007)

ehh. there's a few great cartoons here and there. like chowder. but i agree that the old 90's and 80's cartoons where the best. those should never be forgotten. 

i wouldnt say cartoons today 'sucked' cause i still like most cartoons, even if some of the jokes arent that funny :/


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## Poetigress (Dec 14, 2007)

Rilvor said:
			
		

> Back when I was watching cartoons, Boomerang was playing stuff like Top Cat and Yogi Bear...what do they play nowadays?



They still play that, and whatever else H-B made, but they also show Cartoon Network's stuff now, and a lot less WB.


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## TheSkunkCat (Dec 14, 2007)

Not necessarily.

Generally I find this claim to be sort of a mixture of nostalgia for whatever the claimant grew up watching with (And thus tends to overvalue.) and ignorance of the full range of whats out there now. (Focusing on prominent crappy stuff, but often not being aware of some better stuff.)

Its more like... every era has a mixture of good and shitty cartoons and part of it is up to personal taste.

I also feel that whenever something carries 'shield of nostalgia', it pretty much is above criticism. Even if for example the actual cartoon people are nostalgic over was actually in some cases poorly written, mediocrely animated and essentially a toy commercial.

It doesn't matter, because of good memories. But a neutral observer would be far less gentle in their judgment of the same cartoon.


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## Arbiter (Dec 14, 2007)

it's funny how these crappy cartoon makers can lure so many childern into watching there crap. there obivously brainwashing little kids in order to take over the world. that's why they made Barney *shivers at the very mention of that name*


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## Rostam The Grey (Dec 14, 2007)

I say all generations of cartoons have their good and bad points. I love coyote and road runner. Pink Panther is ok. Going back and watching thundercats, he-man, and a few others seem lame now though. Flinstones is always a winner. Now for newer cartoons there's Courage the Cowardly Dog which is excellent. You can't really count Family Guy, Futurama, and South Park because they are adult cartoons, but they are still excellent. Spongebob is ok. I think it's more of a thing were people say, "oh they were better back when". Like my father used to tell me how much better shows were when he was younger. But I've seen the shows he watched and fail to see what he saw. Although I do love the shows I watched in my childhood like Star Trek with William Shattner. I think people tend to make crack judgements on things without really giving it a chance. How many people who have said Spongebob sux have actually sat down and watched an episode? I do agree though, Barney blows...


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## Devolger555 (Dec 15, 2007)

in germany on normal Cable-tv they do
looney toons in german suck


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## TheSkunkCat (Dec 15, 2007)

Nostalgia is very powerful, if also not something that makes one a good judge.

As a child people are not as critical as they will be later. So what one grows up with and enjoys, one is not very critical off. And thus it is good as gold.

This nostalgia usually lingers and thus people enjoy what they grew up with because it triggers this happy center in the brain. The way new things cannot, because now the subject is more critical and cannot accept them the way they could accept things from the olden times.

Usually this nostalgia is pretty harmless, but it also explains people who desperately want to get back to an imaginary past when there was no crime, everyone agreed and everyone was nice.


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## Myoti (Dec 15, 2007)

The Skunk Cat and Rotsam pretty much said it for me.

People always talk so much about the 'nostalgia' of the older shows, so I went back and watched alot of these; most of 'em sucked about as much as the crappy ones today.

Most cartoons today don't have the same 'wide demograph' like they used to, I'll admit (like how Looney Tunes was a mixture of slapstick and suggestions of 'adult humor'), but being that we have the more adult stuff now (Family Guy, ATHF, etc.) I doubt it matters too much.


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## BloodRedFox (Dec 15, 2007)

I'd have to agree on the nostalgia part. It's the same with me and some of my video games. Games I used to absolutely love when I was young are now more of just "good" today when I play them again (though some old games I still absolutely love even today, like Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask).

Admitted though yeah most of the older cartoons actually are pretty entertaining to me still today than some of the newer stuff. Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Freakazoid, and ReBoot *surprised no one mentioned those two* are still better to me than some of the newer stuff. Of course I still like some newer cartoons like Chowder (which I wasn't expecting much from at first but was actually surprised by it), Avatar, Danny Phantom, and Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. Spongebob may have better animation now, but the quality  of the writing just seems to have gone down after the movie was completed.

As for teen/adult cartoons, I like Family Guy, Simpsons, Futurama, Metalocalypse, and The Venture Bros. Aqua Teen Hunger Force and South Park aren't really as funny lately as they used to be.


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## Wolf-Bone (Dec 15, 2007)

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it. Anyone who knows anything about animation will tell you that animation principles are being ignored, character and background designs are increasingly getting dumbed down, and they won't somehow try to blame it on Flash, a fucking computer program for Christ's sake. Where their opinions will differ has to do with whether or not they're going to kiss the studio's asses and say any dumbing down of quality and relying too heavily on internet humor is fully justified if it means keeping production costs down. And if they themselves are animators, you can pretty much guarantee that as long as they think it's on the record, they'll tow the company line. And what you get is some kind of bizzarro-world logic, or lack thereof where if lower budgets are forcing production values down, but you're doing about the best that can be expected with said budget, you can say that today's cartoons are about as good as yesterday's cartoons because apparently quality has nothing to do with the final product anymore, it has to do with how you spent the budget.


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## Rostam The Grey (Dec 15, 2007)

Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> Nostalgia has nothing to do with it. Anyone who knows anything about animation will tell you that animation principles are being ignored, character and background designs are increasingly getting dumbed down, and they won't somehow try to blame it on Flash, a fucking computer program for Christ's sake. Where their opinions will differ has to do with whether or not they're going to kiss the studio's asses and say any dumbing down of quality and relying too heavily on internet humor is fully justified if it means keeping production costs down. And if they themselves are animators, you can pretty much guarantee that as long as they think it's on the record, they'll tow the company line. And what you get is some kind of bizzarro-world logic, or lack thereof where if lower budgets are forcing production values down, but you're doing about the best that can be expected with said budget, you can say that today's cartoons are about as good as yesterday's cartoons because apparently quality has nothing to do with the final product anymore, it has to do with how you spent the budget.



This might be true if your focus is the quality of the drawn animations and not the plot.


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## Mokusei_Kaze (Dec 15, 2007)

I would have to say it's pretty 50/50.  Since there is a higher demand for cartoons because of specialized stations focused on cartoons more cartoons are being made.  And as a result you do see a lot more cartoons that are pretty much just blah.  But on the same not... in the sea of traditional cartoons, flash,  movies, anime, cgi movies, and claymation you find real gems among modern pieces.


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## Wolf-Bone (Dec 15, 2007)

Rostam The Grey said:
			
		

> Wolf-Bone said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think both are crap, but I care more about the former than the latter since televised cartoons have never exactly been known for awesome plots, with a few exceptions like Batman and Gargoyles.


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## Rilvor (Dec 15, 2007)

That is one thing I hate about cartoons. Things happen, and then unhappen next episode. Look, when Batman got his ass kicked, he wasn't magically back up and ready to fight next episode, he was usually seen in bandages if I recall correctly ._.

Most cartoons, and it isn't just today's cartoons either, the character can die and then be back next episode.

I watched Spongebob a couple times a few years ago after hearing all the cries of "OMFGZG ITS SO GUD!!1111! ITZ TEH FUNNEH!"

After those couple times, never again. I could feel my brain rotting, and my intelligence dropping every second ._.


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## Rostam The Grey (Dec 15, 2007)

But that was what was so great about Coyote and Roadrunner. He was always getting smashed, and always back to it the next second.


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## Rilvor (Dec 15, 2007)

Rostam The Grey said:
			
		

> But that was what was so great about Coyote and Roadrunner. He was always getting smashed, and always back to it the next second.



True, but that was the whole point of the show, that's a slight difference than say, the character just up one day dieing, or having some body part being lost, then being magically fine next episode.


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## BloodRedFox (Dec 15, 2007)

Ah the magic the animation... defying so many laws of logic and physics that if real life suddenly were to become like most cartoons then Issac Newton and Albert Einstein would be turning over in their graves. Continuity is almost non-existent in many of today's cartoons. The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy is a good example of virtually no continuity whatsoever. One episode the entire population of the Earth disappears; next episode the entire world is back to 6 billion people. In one scene Billy has lost all the skin on his face, scene transitions and he has no scratches whatsoever except for maybe one single bandage on his big nose (a common butt of many of his jokes). Some stuff like Avatar and Danny Phantom have continuity, and surprisingly even Fairly Odd Parents! does (Timmy just wishes for everything to be back to normal and "poof!" it happens; one episode even reveals where all of his "poofed back" wishes go as well). Hmm, but yeah many cartoons (old and new) aren't always known for having continuity anyway.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Dec 15, 2007)

Rilvor said:
			
		

> That is one thing I hate about cartoons. Things happen, and then unhappen next episode. Look, when Batman got his ass kicked, he wasn't magically back up and ready to fight next episode, he was usually seen in bandages if I recall correctly ._.



That's apples and oranges, though. Spongebob is a comedy aimed at little kids, Batman was action adventure and aimed at older kids & teens. 
To be fair, sometimes the characters on Spongebob break the fourht wall (and wonder out loud how they managed to light a campfire underwater), and Batman had some nutty stuff - c'mon, a guy turning into a huge bat-monster? Totally unreal!


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## Kyouryuu (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm just glad that the dumb card-based anime genre seems to be on the way out.  You want to know when things started going downhill?  It was when network executives decided they would import and popularize anime instead of creating new material.  Yu-Gi-Oh and its clones were rather nauseating.  Fortunately, I think US animation is on the rebound again, but we're definitely not without issues.

So where have things actually improved?  In the non-dubbed cartoons, I really think the quality of voice acting has gone up.  The other day, I was watching some old 1980s cartoons on YouTube and I was surprised at how over-the-top the voice acting was.  Having one or two characters that play the irritating card is fine, but having an ensemble of them hurts the ears.

Similarly, I think we've gotten better at telling stories over the course of several episodes.  This is an aspect that seems to have outpaced network executives, who still whimsically change schedules and episode orders around.  We've also gotten better about telling stories on multiple levels.  While Pixar is still probably the reigning king of this, the writers are more aware than ever that parents (or just big kids!) are watching too and leaving some jokes in for them will leave a better impression.

When you put Flash animation and aesthetics aside, though, I think the politically correct crowds are crippling the cartoon industry.  Actually, I don't even know if "crowd" is the right word, since these things always seem to involve a handful of bigmouth puritans who have an axe to grind with anything that doesn't conform to their holier-than-thou version of morality.  You ever think about why good guys and bad guys settle things over card duels over laser guns?  Seriously, look at the Transformers movie from the 80s.  Look at how many characters are getting offed, look at all of the lasers in the sky, look at all of the explosions.  It's the quintessential 80s cartoon.  Now, when was the last time you saw that kind of "violence" on Saturday morning?


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## BloodYoshi (Dec 16, 2007)

My method of determining wether something sucks or not is this: If someone made me sit in a room and forced me to watch/play something  for a while, would I go crazy in a relatively short amount of time?

In this case, a resounding yes.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Dec 17, 2007)

It's a mixed bag. Every so often a great cartoon comes along and yet at the same time there are hundreds of terrible cartoons on at the same time. I used to love the Super Mario Bros Super Show, but upon reflection that show and the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon shows were horrible. Batman: TAS remains one of the top shows I've ever watched (saw a few episodes the other day, DELIGHTFUL if I do say so myself.) But seriously, there are some good shows out there today. I'll be one of the first to say that if you don't like Courage the Cowardly Dog you're several slices of lame. I can't say Samurai Jack was all that great, first season was awesome, second season was terrible, third season was great, season four should never have been made which is probably why it never made it to season five. Fosters is a decent show that adequately hits its target audience but has enough humor for everyone to enjoy. As for the adult cartoons, there's good and bad, like always. Frankly, I'm too young to be getting into that "IN MY DAY CARTOONS WERE GOOD" bullshit because I know cartoons from my childhood sucked. Tiny Toons, good lord was that a horrible show. It's a mixed bag, that's all.


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## Tarrock (Dec 17, 2007)

I do think that many of todays shows are crap.
They almost all revolve around the same crap. What happened to good old shows like freakazoid, animanics, pinky and the brain, and earthworm jim on the WB? I don't even think the WB shows cartoons anymore. Last time I saw it they were showing crap like Johnny Test, Loonatics unleashed (super hero loony tunes....) and 7 reruns of yu-gi-oh. Hell I use to like yu-gi-oh but 7 episodes were to damn much.

Then we have more and more trash on cartoon network, along time ago we had shows like dexter's lab, johnny bravo, and a lot of the toonami stuff. Now we got stupid shit like the grim adventures of billy and mandy (i don't remember cartoons using as much gross humor as this show does when I was little), fosters home of imaginary friends (characters get annoying fast), and out of jimmy's head (wtf this ain't a cartoon).
Then what do we get on toonami? Oh we get 12 year old episodes of goosebumps, teen titans, what seems like 7 grueling hours of naruto, and 1 fucken episode of DBZ. 1 episode a fucken week ain't enough to get people into the show, no we have to show what 2-3 fucken episodes of naturo, which spews endless shit every episode.

Wished we'd get weekday toonami back with DBZ in it, and someone would pick up the rights for Earthworm Jim and freakazoid and make new episodes.

This subject pisses me off, all i really watch anymore is adult swim, comedy central, and history channel cause of the crap cartoons on anymore.


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## Rilvor (Dec 17, 2007)

Tarrock said:
			
		

> I do think that many of todays shows are crap.
> They almost all revolve around the same crap. What happened to good old shows like freakazoid, animanics, pinky and the brain, and earthworm jim on the WB? I don't even think the WB shows cartoons anymore. Last time I saw it they were showing crap like Johnny Test, Loonatics unleashed (super hero loony tunes....) and 7 reruns of yu-gi-oh. Hell I use to like yu-gi-oh but 7 episodes were to damn much.
> 
> Then we have more and more trash on cartoon network, along time ago we had shows like dexter's lab, johnny bravo, and a lot of the toonami stuff. Now we got stupid shit like the grim adventures of billy and mandy (i don't remember cartoons using as much gross humor as this show does when I was little), fosters home of imaginary friends (characters get annoying fast), and out of jimmy's head (wtf this ain't a cartoon).
> ...



and the sad thing is, even most of adult swim sucks these days. What the fuck is Tom Goes To the Mayor, Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Saul of the Molemen, Shin Chan, 12 Oz Mouse, Squidbillies, and more. Oh and Aqua Teen Hunger Force, the humor is crap, I usually find myself staring at the wall because the episodes are usually that boring.


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## Porsupah (Dec 18, 2007)

I'll go with the No Nostalgia brigade. ^_^  There's good stuff now, there's been good stuff in the past, and probably in much the same proportions. Gods know, I don't want to survive more hideous made-for-TV 80s animation, where as little as possible gets redrawn between frames, and everyone's as supple as an action figure.

Good stuff now or in the last few years? I'd definitely go with Futurama for one (Simpsons.. eh, there've been some reasonable eps here and there lately, but there's only so much life in just about any show), the gorgeously animated Adventures of Peter Rabbit, and Dogstar's a load of fun. I've heard some good words on the TV version of Watership Down, but still haven't been able to see any. Oh, and definitely Invader Zim. ^_^  And then there's anime, of course - Dennou Coil, Kaiji, Bokurano, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Princess Tutu, Jungle wa itsumo Hale nochi Guu, Kemonozume, Darker than Black..


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## Poetigress (Dec 18, 2007)

Tarrock said:
			
		

> Then we have more and more trash on cartoon network, along time ago we had shows like dexter's lab, johnny bravo, and a lot of the toonami stuff.



Anybody know what happened to... uh... Tartakovsky?  The guy who created Dexter's Lab and a lot of the others?  Is he still around somewhere, or is the overall decline because he packed up and went someplace else?



			
				Rilvor said:
			
		

> and the sad thing is, even most of adult swim sucks these days.



The only thing I've watched on Adult Swim is Robot Chicken (two favorite bits: the stages of giraffe death, and Darth Vader calling to say that the Death Star was destroyed).  Even that's hit-or-miss, though, and I think the newer eps of that seem more focused on what they can get away with than what's truly funny.  And, I wouldn't call it a cartoon, really.

Oh, and I've watched some of the repeats of Space Ghost: Coast to Coast.  I miss that.  Again, though, not really a cartoon IMO.



			
				Porsupah said:
			
		

> I've heard some good words on the TV version of Watership Down, but still haven't been able to see any.



*blinks*  Where is that shown?  (Then again, considering the lame TV versions of both Redwall and Silverwing, I shouldn't hold out hope.)


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## Ainoko (Dec 18, 2007)

DARKWOLFE said:
			
		

> i can,t answer with a yes or no to me it,s  more like alot do but then there are a good number that don,t  but i guess if those two answers are the only choices then i,ll say yes




I have to agree with you on this. There is a disparingly few good if not decent cartoons on TV today. Hell even the classics are getting cencored today due to thier overt violence and racial innuendos. I have a few favorites today that I love to watch, however, they are rarely on TV, such as Kids Next Door, Cow and Chicken, Dexter;s Laboratory, just to name a few.


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## NerdyMunk (Dec 20, 2007)

wyanewill said:
			
		

> Well do they? After watching stuff like Family Guy and Futurama, I call that a big yes.



No, because of Avatar: The Last Airbender


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## Raul (Dec 21, 2007)

You know not all "new" cartoons are that bad. The new Batman cartoon (The Batman) wasn't so bad. Okay, so they redesigned the villains, but the violence was good, and there was plenty of it. The new TMNT cartoon, while not great, is still TMNT. 

But I think we can all agree that the "Golden Age" of children's cartoons was the 80s and 90s. Okay, so the animation during the 80s was crap, but the cartoons were awesome! We had genius such as Transformers, Thundercats, Masters of the Universe, Captain Planet, Batman:The Animated Series (90s) etcetera. 

Now we have shit like Action Man: Atom, and other huge piles of crap


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## Mianame (Dec 22, 2007)

Raul said:
			
		

> But I think we can all agree that the "Golden Age" of children's cartoons was the 80s and 90s. Okay, so the animation during the 80s was crap, but the cartoons were awesome! We had genius such as Transformers, Thundercats, Masters of the Universe, Captain Planet, Batman:The Animated Series (90s) etcetera.



Don't forget Pirates of Dark Water! Oh, and Swat Cats. Who doesn't love Swat Cats?

I have to agree with all of this. I think what really upsets me is just how gross the new cartoons get. Things such as Billy and Mandy I find myself unable to watch along with Camp Lazlo and a few others. I could withstand the lack of humor and the animation I don't even favor if so much of the shows didn't revolve around things like fart jokes.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 22, 2007)

Crappy nostalgia blinds. They forget the crappy episodes on the supposed great shows.

There are new toons that are good - TMNT (pre-Fast Forward) blows away the old TMNT because it relies on story, characterization and action instead of cheesiness, campness and one-liners; DCAU's Justice League and Batman Beyond are awesome enough to show you that superheroes can have dark stories. Invader Zim is a proof of black comedy. Futurama uses pop-culture jokes and mixes it with inside jokes, showing a good formula.

Don't let taste and nostalgia blind you into thinking what is "better". Not to sound like an angry person, but really, I dislike it when people scream like old people falling into the golden age fallacy. I really don't want to shoot the gun.


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## Frost Wolf (Dec 25, 2007)

Yeah, for the most part, todays cartoons suck. (Spider riders, what the hell?!)


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 29, 2007)

Frost Wolf said:
			
		

> Yeah, for the most part, todays cartoons suck. (Spider riders, what the hell?!)



Yogi's Ark! What the hell!


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## Mango (Dec 30, 2007)

To be frank, definitely; although, isn't that just something to be expected? With new generations comes new cartoons that will supposedly hit their funny bone, as well as tend to their likings better. Er, or so they say. SRSLY GUISE, THEY KNOW WUT THEY ARE DOING. *THEY NOSE THEIR VIEWING AUDIENCE*. 

Don't get me started on Nickelodeon. Hmhm, too late. That station used to be _the_ shit, now it's just shit. Legends of the Hidden Temple, Doug, Kenan and Kel, Ren and Stimpy, Are You Afraid of the Dark?, plus more, all later replaced with shows that make the majority of us want to do a Picard-styled facepalm. 
Personally, I found Futurama to be amusing. I'm not exactly sure why Adult Swim is doing away with it. Hopefully they won't get rid of Venture Brothers and Metalocalypse (call me a faggot, but those shows amuse me). If they do, then I'll be forced to find another channel that plays good shows from 9:00 PM to 1:00 AM.


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## ChrisDom (Dec 30, 2007)

Quick and simple, YES


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## KazukiFerret (Dec 30, 2007)

Rilvor said:
			
		

> and the sad thing is, even most of adult swim sucks these days. What the fuck is Tom Goes To the Mayor, Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Saul of the Molemen, Shin Chan, 12 Oz Mouse, Squidbillies, and more. Oh and Aqua Teen Hunger Force, the humor is crap, I usually find myself staring at the wall because the episodes are usually that boring.



Oh God the gate gaurdians of satan's ass hole! That is what almost every show on AdultSwim is, visual poison. 

Tom goes to the Mayor is just plain lame and ugly to look at, and so unfunny! I had my dad watch it once just encase it was stuff that only a 50 year old dude would get the 'jokes', wrong! He asked me what the fuck I was forcing him to watch.

The Tim and Eric Awesome show is like an acid trip gone horrably wrong and is so just... well gay. Every 'joke' was an insult to gay men. I hate this fucking show.

Saul of the mole men, looks once again so horrible it has to be intentional on their part. And if that is how they planned to make it funny, to make it so cheesy and low budget that people would think it was funny. IT SUCKS CATFISH SHIT OUT OF SEWAGE FILTERS!

Shin Chan. Once again looks god awful. I can do MSN paint art better then this shit pile they call a show. The kid fucking moons you and dances around in like every episode. This isn't funny, it's child porn in its lowest form! This whole show is just absolute fail, I'd rather shove a cactus up my ass then watch this fucking show.

12 Oz mouse... This is once again a horrid visual waste of time and airwaves. Everything is just such shit in this show. The character 'models' look like they were designed by a half retarded monkey shiting in one hand and drawing with it's fucking nose while flinging poo around. Color that and you have 12oz mouse. 

Squidbillies... This a fail so epic it competes with Uwe Bowl's horrible dog turds of cinima that have be forced onto movie theaters everywhere. Seriously I see no appeal anywhere in this show. There's no reason to even try watching it, it sucks so bad. It used to be that in order to be an animator you had to be able to actually DRAW, apperently that has changed.

ATF, is mildly decent. The one line is classic. 'Can the blood run _up_ the walls?"

"I don't see why not."


It's shows like these that forced me to anime. With such visual master works as Samuria X: Trust & Betrayal, The Hellsing OVAs, and many others and generally the art quality is so much better and visually... you want to watch them, ok. They look like the animators gave a fuck about what they were producing. Which is far more then I can say for 12oz Mouse, Squidbillies, and Shin Chan!

If the creator can't take the time to make it look presentable, I will not take the time to fucking watch the piece of garbage.

'Nuff said new toons, stop fucking failing! Cartoon Network/Nicalodian (I don't care about the spelling) don't husle half ass deviant art rejects to do your cartoons. I'd rather get beat with a two by four naked in a gay men's changing room for five hours straight then watch these shows.


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## LeoHimeSan (Dec 30, 2007)

I pretty much feel sorry for my future children at this rate.  Their Saturday mornings and weekday afternoons won't be a quarter as fun as mine were.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 31, 2007)




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## Furrtiv (Jan 2, 2008)

It's funny how nostalgia is mentioned as blinding people's views; I recently bought some DVDs of Ulysses;31 and Visionaries, and thoroughly enjoyed them! But I guess it's a matter of taste, as well as production values. I've always loved action and fantasy cartoons, so stuff like that and Thundercats, He-Man, etc, were right up my street.
I also appreciate well-drawn animations, which is why I never liked what some of you are calling classics; Ren and Stimpy, Dexter's Laboratory - the style of drawing and the animation simply put me off the shows, sorry but I don't like stuff that I personally consider badly drawn.
Pokemon and Digimon gave me headaches, I couldn't watch them, and as an ex- Magic; the Gatehring card gamer, Yu-Gi-Oh just annoyed me.
I would have to say that, even with some modern gems, the average overall quality of cartoons today seems to be a lot lower, and if you don't have cable or satellite TV (in the UK we only have five terrestrial channels, you know!  ) then there is an extremely limited selection.
I prefer to buy the DVDs and enjoy them at my leisure.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 4, 2008)

What my problem here is that most of the views are subjective yet people infer them as facts.


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## ShadowEon (Jan 4, 2008)

Anime remains good and hey family guy is good and although it doesn't have new episodes futurama is too!And I still enjoy spongebob regardless of how many times I see it XD and hey I like shin chan >: it is funny. but that too is of japanese origin


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## Scythel (Jan 4, 2008)

Today's cartoons seem too sped up. Little to no plot, and random jokes get thrown in your face. It's like somebody is walking...and then BAM! Something that is suppose to be funny but really isn't leaves you wondering what just happened.

It hurts on the inside


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jan 4, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:
			
		

> tom the dancing bug



By this logic, Back to the Future is the coolest movie ever - AWESOME.


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## VanWeasel (Jan 4, 2008)

In general the cartoons I see around lack the humor and weirdness I liked so much in older shows I watched in younger years (and oh lordy, watching those now sure make me realize how delightfully messed up these were!)

There's a couple new(ish) things that I like, and some others that have their moments. Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends basically pisses me off 90% of the time, but it has had its random funny moments that convinced me to pause on the cartoon network for a moment. Most times the plot lines in cartoons are painful to endure... predictable, overdone, and full of frustrating to  watch "funny" misunderstandings and mix-ups. The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy amuse me well enough, and Chowder is a nice cartoon in its own cute, stonerish way.

I miss the glory days of Ren and Stimpy.


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## VanWeasel (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm usually pleased with Adult Swim, though, now that I think about it. They usually manage to have something that entertains me. Might be something to do with the state of mind I'm in late at night, who knows.


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## Paskiewicz (Jan 6, 2008)

I agree with that thread, I don't watch those stupid cartoons this year. They have less violence and blood. Too kiddy, cheapest.

How about Tom & Jerry? I like that show when I was a kid.


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## Fallen (Jan 6, 2008)

Basicly my views(I'm 15, so I don't have that nastalgia factor like some you may have but I've seen re-runs of the old shows)

Basicly back in the 80's/90's the shows wern't held down by being politcly correct as they are now, back then you could show your kid senseless violence or 'potty' humor without the that thought of 'OMG what is my kid going to end up like if they watch this?!' were as now people think if there kids see some violence there gonna become this serial killer.

And I totally agree with people saying that the animation style now is kinda crappy, it all looks like I've seen it on the internet on a flashsite a million times before. Were as the old stuff wouldn't be 'beautiful' but they definitly had more detail and life to them.

I now don't watch many cartoons geared for the younger audience though, I watch as you would say the more 'mature' shows, which really are not all that funny (Save for King of the hill and the simpsons) Family guy died after it got cancelled and should not have been brought back EVER, were as I'm glad they are bringing back Futurama(Matt Greoning is a freaking genious)

Basicly that's my inexperienced view on this topic.


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## Mayfurr (Jan 6, 2008)

There does seem to be more crap cartoons around these days, although how much of that is simply my personal tastes getting bypassed by The Powers That Be I'm not sure. 

As far as the current crop of cartoons is concerned, these are fairly good:
* Venture Brothers 
* Harvey Birdman, Attorney At Law 
* 'bro Town 
* Fairly OddParents

Waste of bandwidth / transmission time:
* Tom Goes To The Mayor
* Squidbillies
* Sealab 2021
* Space Ghost
* King of the Hill
* Family Guy
* American Dad
* Anything based on a card game

One question - for those in the USA, does much non-US (or Japanese) animation make its way onto your screens? For example, did Cosgrove Hall cartoons such as "Count Duckular" and "Dangermouse" from the UK , or Yoram Gross "Blinkey Bill" cartoons from Australia, ever get into the US, or was it entirely "local product" from WB and Disney?


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jan 6, 2008)

Mayfurr said:
			
		

> One question - for those in the USA, does much non-US (or Japanese) animation make its way onto your screens? For example, did Cosgrove Hall cartoons such as "Count Duckular" and "Dangermouse" from the UK , or Yoram Gross "Blinkey Bill" cartoons from Australia, ever get into the US, or was it entirely "local product" from WB and Disney?



Yep, I loved Duckula and Dangermouse as a kid. Nickelodeon back in the day showed a lot of import cartoons, including a LOT of anime, although it's origin wasn't advertised the way it is today.


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## Armaetus (Jan 7, 2008)

The majority of today's toons suck hard, especially on Nickeloden


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## Option7 (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't mind shit like Robot Chicken, Family Guy, The Simpsons etc.

But as far as kids cartoons go, yes, they are much worse today. They're full of morals and lessons. I remember I used to love to watch Ren and Stimpy cause it was so mental and, frankly a little creepy, but you can't even see that anymore! (I believe)


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## Jelly (Jan 7, 2008)

Eh, not really.

Not any worse than most of what came out since HB limited animation.

I mean, sure Nick stuff was pretty good for a short while...but that's mostly because Nick let their directors/animators do whatever they wanted to do, but that kind of stuff doesn't sustain for too long. Too bad, too.

Pixar makes some pretty amazing stuff.


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## Renian (Jan 7, 2008)

Hmm... I think it partially depends on what type of cartoons you are talking about. Most of the stuff currently on local television for normal viewing hours is pretty bad, especially for children's programming. I think Spongebob is the best example. The first 10 seconds I watched it, I was like "Hmm..." after that it was, "Okay, this is dumb even for a five year old..."

I think most cartoons made in the US kind of went downhill after the better recent WB cartoons went off the air (Animaniacs, Tiny Toons, etc.). Now I only really see 3 types. Boring dumbed down uber-pure kiddy shows (like Spongebob), mostly edited and cut up anime that is far from being what it's supposed to be (like One Piece for those who know what I'm talking about), and semi-realistic superhero shows (usually the better of these three).

I actually still watch and prefer older cartoons such as the original Tom and Jerry and the old Loony Toons. Some argue that they are excessively violent, promote the use of alcohol and cigarettes, and are in general bad for children. I disagree mostly because the violence shows direct consequences that go beyond simple knockout like in current superhero shows. After all, if Jerry smashed Tom's food with a hammer for whatever reason in one of the older cartoons, Tom would shout and his foot would throb red, be flattened, or have some other physical sign of the fact that it hurt like heck! Same way with Loony Toons.


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## sgolem (Jan 7, 2008)

I admit, I think Avatar is the shit.  Really though, I think a lot of today's cartoons just don't have balls like they used to.  Most of the time, today's executives seem too damn scared to get sued to make cartoons that are actually entertaining.  The fact that they had to put a disclaimer on the first volume of Sesame Street because Cookie Monster smokes and eats a pipe is just absolutely ridiculous.  Enough of this "Think of the children" bullshit.  They're only going to get smothered when the real world comes to greet them.


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## Mayfurr (Jan 9, 2008)

Renian said:
			
		

> Hmm... I think it partially depends on what type of cartoons you are talking about. Most of the stuff currently on local television for normal viewing hours is pretty bad, especially for children's programming. I think Spongebob is the best example. The first 10 seconds I watched it, I was like "Hmm..." after that it was, "Okay, this is dumb even for a five year old..."



The first time I saw a hint of "Spongebob Squarepants" on TV (in a hotel room in Wisconsin where I had gone on a business trip), I was sure that this piece of tripe was so bad it was the equivalent of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse... - a true "WTF?!?!?!???" moment. ("Game over man, game over!")


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## OmNomNom (Jan 9, 2008)

Yes, today's cartoons suck. I miss the political humor and satire used in the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. I mean, they even had hints of political humor to entertain the more politically aware audience in cartoons of 90's (be that rare)...such as Freakazoid and Animaniacs.


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## Barnem (Jan 9, 2008)

OmNomNom said:
			
		

> Yes, today's cartoons suck. I miss the political humor and satire used in the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. I mean, they even had hints of political humor to entertain the more politically aware audience in cartoons of 90's (be that rare)...such as Freakazoid and Animaniacs.



Shenanigans. Ever watch Fairly Odd Parents? Loaded with political satire. 

"I'm big, powerful and misunderstood!"
"Just like the IRS!"


"Mr. President, disaster has just been averted, what are you going to do now?"
"I'm going to ESCALATOR LAND!"

The show does a good job at having really indirect humor, or at least gives plenty of jokes for everyone to laugh at.


But people don't give SpongeBob enough credit. Sure, I'll be the first to say anything after season three is garbage, but there's some really funny stuff in there if you're willing to accept the silliness. Ever watch the Marching Band episode? Brilliant. Doodlebob episode? Good stuff.

Another great show to watch is Foster's Home for Imaginary friends. That's a show with really creative characters and writers willing to put in awesome scenarios and set ups that are legitimately FUNNY. The way the writers can snowball a single even while maintaining a good level of humor really impresses me. A great episode involving this would have to be the Trip to Europe episode. You have all these little sub-plots weaving in and out as Mac tries to bring everyone together to get out the door. And they manage to keep each conflict moving and in rhythm, while keeping the jokes coming. The little French Imaginary friend making fun of An American Tale cracks me up each time.

Frankly, the 90s cartoons were mainly the battle being fought against the censors, and it looks like the censors won. That's why the adult humor in cartoons have become less apparent and now much more subtle, something I really enjoy, or at least the darker humor; such as in Billy and Mandy. Frankly, if you don't like todays cartoons, you're probably missing out on a lot of the jokes they're making. Things going on in the background, snide comments, etc. go at a pretty fast pace.


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## Icarus (Jan 9, 2008)

Short answer:  Yes
Long answer:  Except for a certain few, no.
I miss 90's cartoons so bad...

Cartoons from my childhood kicked ass!  Now they have been replaced by toons  that suck dick.

[edit]


			
				Mayfurr said:
			
		

> * Squidbillies
> * Sealab 2021
> * Space Ghost
> * King of the Hill
> ...


WHAT?!!?!!?!?
Dude I love squidbillies, it's like my town but squids.  And I like that kind of satire because I hate my town. :}


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 9, 2008)

Transformers (the new one) looks good. Heck, better than the old one.

YES I SAID IT.


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## Barnem (Jan 9, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:
			
		

> Transformers (the new one) looks good. Heck, better than the old one.
> 
> YES I SAID IT.




I'm going do disagree with you on the grounds that the robots look too organic now, rather than giant robots.


But then again, I'll whine about anything. I hated the more recent CGI version of TF too.


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## Jelly (Jan 9, 2008)

So, is a "good" cartoon one that is barely animated with a bunch of "edgy" jokes and violence?

I mean, I love Ren and Stimpy, but if it was an Adult Swim cartoon...I can't imagine not hating it.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 9, 2008)

jellyhurwit said:
			
		

> So, is a "good" cartoon one that is barely animated with a bunch of "edgy" jokes and violence?
> 
> I mean, I love Ren and Stimpy, but if it was an Adult Swim cartoon...I can't imagine not hating it.



A good cartoon must exist within the years around 80-90's, with some at the first few days of 2000.

So yeah, people will prefer flat-character, catchphrase-ridden Michelangelo over the character-developed one.


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## xLadyxFelinex (Jan 9, 2008)

Barnem said:
			
		

> WolfoxOkamichan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean, they look like giant humans wearing armor? That sucks!

...hnh, wait... *cough*humansinarmor*cough*

The "new" style isn't that much different from the "old" style. It's just stylized a bit more. And at least all the humans aren't either a.) generic dudes in lab coats or b.) generic dudes in yellow hard hats and boots. And the writing is worlds better than G1 ever was - the best we've gotten since Beast Wars/Machines. 

TF:Ani is the best Transformers cartoon the US has gotten in ten or more years.


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## imnohbody (Jan 9, 2008)

xLadyxFelinex said:
			
		

> TF:Ani is the best Transformers cartoon the US has gotten in ten or more years.



The G1 fanatic in me can't help but think that the above kind of sounds like "damning with faint praise"... 

-----

As for the original thread subject, I'm hesitant to engage in what could be construed as looking back on the past through rose-colored glasses, but overall I find myself somewhat less than impressed with many of the cartoons out there today, particularly in regards to artistic styles. The 90s-era stuff was hardly photorealistic, but much of what I've seen in the past few years doesn't seem like the artists are even vaguely thinking about trying for some degree of "realism", and are taking their cues from grade-school artwork.


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## xLadyxFelinex (Jan 9, 2008)

imnohbody said:
			
		

> xLadyxFelinex said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*whistles innocently*



> As for the original thread subject, I'm hesitant to engage in what could be construed as looking back on the past through rose-colored glasses, but overall I find myself somewhat less than impressed with many of the cartoons out there today, particularly in regards to artistic styles. The 90s-era stuff was hardly photorealistic, but much of what I've seen in the past few years doesn't seem like the artists are even vaguely thinking about trying for some degree of "realism", and are taking their cues from grade-school artwork.


This, I can wholeheartedly concur with. The "Cartoony, cutesy" style is okay, but when that's _all_ everything is? Then the charm starts to wear really thin, really fast. 

I mean, I like "Kim Possible", but I'd trade it in in a heartbeat for more ExoSquad. 

There's also writing to consider, too. Hailing back to the aforementioned ExoSquad... The show dealt with global war, prejudice, racism, genocide, insanity, death, hatred, forgiveness, and universal equality, and it dealt with them in a very mature, straightforward manner. And bear in mind, this was a show aimed at 10-year-old boys. But it made no move to hide Phaeton's intentions, or the suffering his actions caused on both sides of the war. For Primus' sake, people DIED in that show, and unless they were clones... they didn't come back. People died, their friends and relatives grieved, and things changed irreversibly. And the deaths had _purpose_ - they furthered the story, rather than acted as a convenient way to make more toys or let a VA go. Best yet, the writers didn't treat the target audience, even as young as it was, like total idiots, talking down at them and spelling things out in simple terms. 

Point me to a _cartoon_, produced in this past decade, that has been so forthright in its writing.


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## Barnem (Jan 10, 2008)

xLadyxFelinex said:
			
		

> Barnem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See:


> But then again, I'll whine about anything. I hated the more recent CGI version of TF too


.

I just don't like it. Not gonna say it sucks, just not my bag o' tea.



> Point me to a cartoon, produced in this past decade, that has been so forthright in its writing.



People don't need to die for it to have a good impact. I'm going to go with Avatar.


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## xLadyxFelinex (Jan 10, 2008)

Barnem said:
			
		

> > Point me to a cartoon, produced in this past decade, that has been so forthright in its writing.
> 
> 
> 
> People don't need to die for it to have a good impact. I'm going to go with Avatar.


I didn't say people _had_ to die for a show to have a good impact, just using that as an example of a cartoon that dealt with a difficult subject realistically, without insulting the target audience or dumbing things down, like so many cartoons seem to do today.

And I'm not familiar with Avatar, except through a couple of friends (I don't watch Nickelodeon, myself) but I may have to check it out.


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## LoinRocker (Jan 10, 2008)

Yeah most of them are pretty bad. Especially the Batman reamkes they tried to do. Let alone everything else, but I just wait for anime in Japan if I want to watch a good toon. Or anything else that doesn't suck.


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## OmNomNom (Jan 10, 2008)

Barnem said:
			
		

> Shenanigans. Ever watch Fairly Odd Parents? Loaded with political satire.
> 
> "I'm big, powerful and misunderstood!"
> "Just like the IRS!"
> ...



Oh yeah, I completely forgot about FOP. This is actually a really good one.

"Where did you get that..?"
"Umm...the internet!"
>_>


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## Barnem (Jan 11, 2008)

Frankly I'm rather reluctant to say that the quality of cartoons have dropped, but rather our tastes in humor have changed. Simply put, if you don't find a show entertaining, then usually it's more difficult to see why other people could find it so. Another thing is that even back in the 90s there were really crappy cartoons, but no one tends to remember those. That's why if we give enough time we'll see the real gems of the first decade of the new millennium.


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## LoinRocker (Jan 11, 2008)

Yeah, Humor is a big part of It I think too.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 13, 2008)

The only thing I like more in the 90's era (note, 90's; this doesn't include 80's) is that they are more daring. Granted, there are a few like JLU and FoP...


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## The Red Alchemist (Jan 13, 2008)

Ahahah.  Oh god no, are you kidding?

Animation, writing, production values... *everything* about modern cartoons is better than what most of us grew up with.

To be fair, you also have to compare was was considered the norm for cartoons.  I really do think that one of the high-points of animation was when Warner Brothers was producing shorts for movie theaters back in the 30's and 40's.  The amount of labor and craftsmanship put into them is mostly unmatched in the modern world of animation.

However, when you look at the overall quality of animation, I'd say that american animation is in good hands.  You have people like Gendy Tatakovski who is really dedicated to animation as a storytelling medium that can be made to do beautiful things.  Anyone who's seen his stupendous work with Samurai Jack and Foster's can attest to this.  Bruce Timm's work in animation, starting with the original Batman: the animated series, has consistently been good stuff; all the way up until last episode of Justice League.

And then there's the CGI stuff as well.  No one, no one at all has done animation with the level of loving care that Pixar has done in the last decade.

I think there was a really big lull in the potential of animation from the 1950's up until maybe 10 years ago.  Cartoons were for kids, no one saw them as a serious medium in the united states.  Disney was making high quality films, but nothing along the lines of what was done with Snow White and Bambi -- and that was before the advent of many of the tools that modern animators consider obsolete like acrylic paint.

Looking back at a lot of the animation that was on television in the 70's and 80's, the Hanna Barbara and Ruby Spears sort of stuff done on the cheap.  The animation was bad, the writing was terrible, etc.  The cartoons from the 90's were marginally better with cable networks putting tons of money down on making original cartoons rather than rerun Looney Tunes.  I mean, there were some fairly good shows in the mix ('The Real Ghostbusters' and 'Rocko's Modern Life', for example), but most shows don't hold up if you watch them as an adult.

None of this even takes into consideration Japan outside of it's influence on modern American animators.

I guess if I can reduce this down to something easily swallowed, I would say that as technology has gotten better, so has animation.  Also, remember that nostalgia has a powerful effect on your perception of things.  Before you're 12, you don't get most shows.  After you're 12, most shows don't hold the novelty they did before.  Your subjective take on things totally changes what things are.


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## Jelly (Jan 13, 2008)

Well, during the 50's I think it was less that the market was in a weaning phase and more that television was out there. That and smaller independents were trying to breach the market - like UPA (which is where the heart of limited animation comes from). After that it was a typical market game of cheap and fast. HB had an excellent industrial model of shoveling poor animation and cookie cutter characters out into the TV market.

I tend to think that contemporary animation in the US tends to have stronger roots in sitcoms and reality television than it does in "cartoons." So, I don't know if the story-telling is definitely better or worse over the span of the last 3 decades. It seems to be a bit of a grab-bag according to who did what.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 14, 2008)

Hear, hear, red alchemist!

I agree on the Ruby-Spears era that you mentioned. People tend to forget the bad stuff when they are nostalgic, so they forget the absurdness of Mega-man, Darkstalkers, and Street Fighter!


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## Hyenaworks (Jan 15, 2008)

Cartoons are more PC than ever before and that's a huge turn off to me.


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## Thorne (Jan 16, 2008)

BACK IN THE DAY we had really awesome cartoons, freakin' animaniacs, goof troop, whatever. I saw some crap called Code Lyoko today and man it SUCKS. Not just the drawn animation, but the voice and plot. Its only saving grace is that is switches to CG. I also watched Biker Mice from Mars, which is a re-make of an old cartoon. IT SUCKED TOO. Animators these days can't draw.


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## Paxyn (Jan 16, 2008)

That and what the fuck is all this animating in Flash bullshit?
Seriously. All this choppy, cop-out marketing crap is so debilitating. It's all watered down to the point that were it coffee you'd retch. Nowadays' cartoons give no credit to children, and it's all hawking the latest whatever whatever merchandise.
I remember a day when a cartoon was made, then merchandise made to sell as a bonus profit.
Now, it's merchandise is made first, and then the soulless excuse for an 18 minute show is slapped together to craze-sell.

This recent show I came across absolutely appalls me - It's an animation style similar to the esurance commercials, and it's all about kids loving to hang out in 'a place where they belong' which turns out to be... A fucking supermall.
A SUPERMALL. That is where kids are educated that they "belong" now. Not getting excercise, seeing nature, at the park, or even at home... But in a place where advertisements are literally every step, and commercialism is the entire point of the place. Sales, sales, sales.

Yes, children. Demographically, you are the highest possessors of "disposable income" so let's ingrain you with the belief that you belong in a fucking mall. SPEND MONEY ALL THE TIME!

Sick.

The quality of animation has almost exclusively been relegated to the domain of children, and those that are for adult audiences are usually short burst affairs, done after one or two seasons. Terrible.


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## Thorne (Jan 17, 2008)

Paxyn said:
			
		

> That and what the fuck is all this animating in Flash bullshit?
> Seriously. All this choppy, cop-out marketing crap is so debilitating. It's all watered down to the point that were it coffee you'd retch. Nowadays' cartoons give no credit to children, and it's all hawking the latest whatever whatever merchandise.
> I remember a day when a cartoon was made, then merchandise made to sell as a bonus profit.
> Now, it's merchandise is made first, and then the soulless excuse for an 18 minute show is slapped together to craze-sell.
> ...



Ewww. What is that cartoon called?


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## Paxyn (Jan 17, 2008)

Thorne said:
			
		

> Ewww. What is that cartoon called?



The piece of shit is called 6teen. I looked it up on Teletoon. It's Canadian. God I'm embarrassed. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6teen


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## The Red Alchemist (Jan 17, 2008)




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## E-mannor (Jan 17, 2008)

family guy, futurama, and the Simpsons are good and still on

invader zim was great but was canceled for some reason (i have the 3 seasons on dvd!!! allot of which never aired!)

any-who, in general, the ones now-a-days have been reduced to general crap... ever since the senseless violence in tom an jerry was argued about, the cartoons hit a steep slide down on the "good" slope


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## Renian (Jan 17, 2008)

E-mannor said:
			
		

> family guy, futurama, and the Simpsons are good and still on
> 
> invader zim was great but was canceled for some reason (i have the 3 seasons on dvd!!! allot of which never aired!)
> 
> any-who, in general, the ones now-a-days have been reduced to general crap... *ever since the senseless violence in tom an jerry was argued about, the cartoons hit a steep slide down on the "good" slope*



This reminded me of something I heard on a Television show from the 80's that my dad liked and now owns a few seasons of. It was something along the lines of, "Remember when a mouse could hit a cat with a frying pan and flatten his head? Now the go to a counciling and talk it out."


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 18, 2008)

As I said, I think cartoons aren't much daring today as opposed to before, but that doesn't I won't judge them much. I dunno. It feels hypocritical.


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## Neofur (Jan 28, 2008)

Animation is in decline nowadays,_(Well in the USA that is)_ Always follow the money, 
it's cheaper to use something like Anime Studio to quickly produce a series for syndication.

The decades the shows came out also define them.

Rocky and Bullwinkle during the Bay of Pigs era etc.

The 80's = The great gun porn golden age...so much so they put those anti-violence 
don't do drugs parts at the end of the shows.
A half hour of justified violence to sell a toy line.
Luckily good writers would sneak in great story lines.


Now shows are dumbed down and made politically correct to reach the larges viewing audience.
Mature or retro shows are made for us nostalgic old geezers who can't stand all the Sponge Bob wannabes.

Anime is suffering from this too, wishie washie boys who can't close the deal and bubbly girl teams are the norm.
Shonen Jump is now pimping anything that's even close to DBZ to the US.

There was a time when the cast of anime series were 18 and over looking, like... Getter Robo, Captain Harlock, Fist Of The North Star.
Except for G.I.T.S nowadays it's kids save the world._(I know it's a sell to young boys thing but Arrrgh.)_


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## spikey2k (Jan 28, 2008)

abso-fuckin-lutely You get the rare gem of good animated television programming.(I won't name examples) but other then that it is terrible.

No morrals, no lessons and worse yet no storyline. Consitancy throwen out the window for cheap dumb comedy.


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## dsand101 (Jan 28, 2008)

Yes, for sure.  It seems the big wigs at the animation studios have drank from the well too many times and are coming up dry, on the other hand, you might say they drank not enough of the bong water to sync with the current demographic.  I could say it is my imagination but it seems that through out the years, and I do mean years, the quality of animation may have improved but the plots and storylines are lacking.  Some say it's the mentality they are trying to play to.  In the past nothing works better than a cartoon with mindless violence, a little innuendo, and if you are lucky, a message.  Of course there were some who say that it was way too much for a young mind to handle, and in some cases much more than an adult mind could handle so cries were made to clean up the act.  You can say the big shift came in the late 70's and moved it's way into the late 80's where education was upfront and foremost, make it suitable for consumption.  This in mind created a side stream of animation that catered to adults in mind, Duckman for example.  Yet it seems the 90's saw a integration of cartoons to cater to both children and adults for primetime consumption, like the Simpsons.  Anyway, there is still the Cartoon Noir out there, it is just hard to find it these days.

Sidenote: for those who wonder what I consider Cartoon Noir, Saturday Night Live's Tv Funhouse.


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## harden13 (Jan 29, 2008)

some r good and some r bad its up to you how you feel about them.


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## Marl Duothimir (Jan 29, 2008)

The Ambiguously Gay Duo! The Ambiguously Gay Duo! They're ambiguously gay! They're ambiguously gay! ...Yeah.

Meh, I don't watch much TV anymore, for the simple reason that many cartoons today do, in my opinion, SUCK. I can feel my brain shrivelling up everytime my sisters turn on Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network.


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## Lucedo (Jan 29, 2008)

Much of American Animation quality is axed by corporate greed today.


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## theg90 (Jan 29, 2008)

the-shadow-of-light said:
			
		

> i wouldent say that i todays cartoon sucks " dont kill me! >.<" BUT all remakes do..
> 
> like transofrmers 2000 remake and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" not that id watch em now a days anyway" but i caught a glips of em not long ago and god they sucked!..
> 
> i do like famely guy and simpsons though x3 ...but amarican cartoons scare me like that pommes dude the meatball and that soda holder 0.o where the f did they come from!?



Doest thou meanest Aqua Teen Hunger Force?   I agree that almost all the cartoons out today, with the exception of ones like Code Monkeys and Family Guy.  Channels like Disney and suc are taking out what used to be the main attraction: short attention span goodness.  I don't want long running jokes about a "robber who steals hammers."


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## twilightiger (Mar 13, 2008)

I'd give that statement a resounding yes. Compare any of the older cartoons to their 
so-called modern counterparts and there is a huge decline in morals, values, ethics, storytelling! Anyone remember Gem? You know the cartoon were they started a rock band in order to keep an orphanage open? Compare that to BratZ. Five seconds of that show and I was wondering where the next product placement was going to appear. Gem, lets help people through the power of music. BratZ, let's buy shoes and whine about how adults exist in evil corporations in order to keep kids down.
Truth, we were influenced by the shows we watched. But I grew up watching shows that had a point. Pirates of dark water. Darkwing duck. He-man and the masters of the universe. Batman TaS stands unrivalled at the pinnacle of my childhood. (My favorite episode is Tiger, Tiger. And Mark Hamill as the voice of the Joker. *Bliss*) Maybe they were trying to sell me a toy. But they also had something more to them. Something that has stayed with me long after my toys have been put away.
Avatar has a point and some of the best storytelling I've seen in years. Better than anything I saw in the eighties. (We were just over the top back then. But hey, that's why we love them.) Nostalgia makes me look back and long for the past. But it also makes me want to preserve the things that mattered to me. So that I can share them with the next generation. (Remember the old D&D cartoon? Classic) I'd love to see a resurgence of the things that I loved about cartoons be passed on to a new generation.
Better that than the pointless fear-mongering that if our children watch violent cartoons they'll grow up to be desensitized to it. Funny how I care more about the consequences of violence because I saw people facing them, rather than pretending they didn't exist.


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## Kiffa_kitmouse (Mar 14, 2008)

Ugh, yet another poll that's completely useless because there are only two answers-- black and white, with no shades of grey.

There are a lot of crap cartoons today, true... but there are some pretty good ones, too, like "Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends", "Avatar", and "Chowder". And bad cartoons existed in the past, too. It's just that when you reminisce about older cartoons, you tend to remember the good ones and forget about the bad ones.


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## Wolf_Fox_Guy (Mar 14, 2008)

the newer stuff is horrible. Its not funny and if its not meant to be funny, then they act lik eit has to have some massive story line behind it. just cause anime has huge story lines in it dosent mean everything else does


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## michaelreay (Mar 19, 2008)

Yep, new toons suck, the 90s rule and I miss Samuri Jack and Gargoyles!


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## Zaibatsu (Mar 19, 2008)

yes, except for Futurama, that's a really great show.

Older cartoon, like Rocko's Modern Life, had a better quality and spirit about them then new shows.


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## Dragoneer (Mar 20, 2008)

Frankly, I think cartoons have always sucked... but there's just been a few titles that always managed to outshine the rest of the competition.


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## eternal_flare (Mar 20, 2008)

It's also surprised me when I saw many newer cartoon and anime over-powered by those in 1990s.


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## CyberFox (Mar 20, 2008)

It's a definite Yes and No situation
YES, most of the toons today suck on account of they use lame Disney Channel/Nickelodeon trendy humor with characters that are self-obsessed and one dimensional

NO, There is only 2 cartoons in today's TV that are actually decent and they are "Chowder" and "Untalkative Bunny"


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## Dragoneer (Mar 21, 2008)

CyberFox said:
			
		

> NO, There is only 2 cartoons in today's TV that are actually decent and they are "Chowder" and "Untalkative Bunny"


Ben 10, Metalocalypse... there's a lot more cartoons out there better than just "decent". =P


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## grayfur22 (Mar 23, 2008)

well it is normal that after a time they av no more idea for good cartoon y for one miss the time wan sonic the heghog was with
sally and the other those were the days of glory now it all crap
all the time and anime is close to this now alredy


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## harpier (Mar 24, 2008)

Depends...A.T.O.M. isn't that bad, but Dora the Explorer makes me vomit


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## Digitalpotato (Mar 24, 2008)

eternal_flare said:
			
		

> It's also surprised me when I saw many newer cartoon and anime over-powered by those in 1990s.



In the 1990's, we were the targeted audience. Not only were they targeted at children, but there were shows and parts of shows that aren't for children, they're adult humour.

Now when I mean Adult humour, I don't mean Sexual innuendo or random Penis jokes - Those are the Fart Jokes for Teenagers and Adults and are lazy writing. (ANYONE can make a 7 year old laugh by making a farting noise, and ANYONE can make a 14 year old boy laugh by making Robotnik say "PENISH!" or Eddy say "DICK!") I am referring to humour that children won't get. Remember Dinosaurs? And how they parodied our society? Children wouldn't understand that. 
And think of Tintin...Children would laugh at how Captain Haddock is saying "BLISTERING BARNACLES!" and getting drunk or The Thompsons driving into a million Mirages and getting hurt but adults and teenagers would be watching the conspiracies unfold. 

My dad LOVED watching Angry Beavers since they reminded him SO much of me and my sister. (Mind you this was in 1997...This is in the phase where my sis and I wanted the other one off in Boarding School so we wouldn't have to deal with one another) And my dad laughed when Angelica said stuff like "You're not supposed to let anyone in here! Not ... ...Saddam Hussein..." or when the twins said, "We found this rocking horse head in our crib!". Would your average 8 year old get that? Probably not since "The Godfather" and other mafia movies are usually off-limits to children and even then they wouldn't get most of what was going on. 

Or, I should mention, all the stuff that's been parodied or referenced in "The Simpsons". I don't think that needs any explanation.


And look at the stuff we got NOW.
Spongebob Squarepants: BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Peter Griffin: Meeheeheeh...meehehehe....meeehehhehheh....meheheheheh...*three minutes later* Meeeheheheh....Meeeheheheheh....Meeeheheheh...
Kaiba: Screw the rules I have money.
Luffy: Hello, I am a Stock Character.


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## ADF (Apr 2, 2008)

I wish cartoons would bring more mature subjects in them like they used to, rather than shield children from everything wrong in the world.

For instance as thought provoking and philosophical as this is, it was removed from the film.


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## skulltoe (Apr 2, 2008)

Gods yes, today's cartoons suck. Unfortunately, due to my younger brother, they are all that ever play on our good tv. 

But now I have one of those crappy unheardof-brand smallest-size-available-with-a-sorta-working-cable-jack-in-the-back-if-you-wiggle-it-just-right tvs I found in my basement and put in my room. I even convinced my dad to let me bring the 360 up there. Now I can watch good shows, like CSI. (*sigh*, no, not really) I usually play xbox due to the amount of effortlessly-made crap they air today. I think my only good channel here is The People's Channel. You can go to their station and air stuff you make, and some really creative people have stuff aired from there. Of course, a lot is crap, but it's better than Spongebob's maniacal and repetitive laughing sequence. Nickelodeon is just garbage. Same goes for cartoon network. I mean, I'm the target audience of some of those shows, and when the target audience says they blow, they should be taken off the air. Honestly.

But yes, some of the older cartoons I've seen on DVDs and whatnot were actually ok. Kids television today is just brain-numbing trash. All the violence is censored, if it even exists. And I don't mean senseless violence. Sometimes violence can be used to enhance the plot; remove a main character or something. It's sad that they've gotten to the point where the best story writers can come up with is about a... frycook sponge? Not to mention the fact that he's just blatantly retarded. Was this show made to make elementary school drop-outs feel good about themselves? "Hey mom, at least I'm not as dumb as spongebob." I have actually heard my brother say that. I almost cried... mentally.

Edited to enhance point.


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## Eshmasesh (Apr 3, 2008)

I disagree that today's cartoons suck. There are some bad ones, ofcourse. New episodes of The Simpsons keep getting lamer and lamer, losing the satirical flare they once had (don't even get me started on the movie). Family Guy is pretty dumb, but IMO they make up for it with American Dad; same basic character formula, except the shows have interesting and satirical plots with jokes that aren't solely based on popculture references.

Futurama is a great cartoon. I honesty don't understand why anyone would dislike it. It's just plain funny! Bender's Big Score was excellent, too, the plot was remarkably well-thought. I also love Spongebob, Fairly Odd Parents, Harvey Birdman, and many others. I really don't see the difference between their "brain-numbing trash" and, say, Popeye or Looney Tunes, other than that really old Looney Tunes shows were used as nationalist propoganda.


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## skulltoe (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't particularly like any of them. Futurama is ok, not the best, but I'll watch it. Family Guy is good for random funny shit. No good plot though. I gave up on the Simpsons a long time ago.


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## Eleke (Apr 4, 2008)

As far as cartoons targeted towards kids go, dear god most of them reek. Spongebob Squarepants makes me want to dig my eyes out with a blunted spork, Fairly Oddparents is good in small doses, and most everything on Noggin is so vapid that I can't understand why my nephews obsess over it. However, there is one kid-targeted cartoon that brings me hope: Avatar: The Last Airbender. Yes, a lot of it has been simplified, but there is an ongoing story, characters with actual development, and a pretty damn interesting setting. 

Now for adult-oriented cartoons - I tend to ignore everything on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim but for Family Guy (which gets old *real* quick, IMHO), Futurama, and Robot Chicken. Simpsons I used to love, but I find myself content to miss the new episodes more and more.


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## ZeekFox (Apr 11, 2008)

I watch boomerange but there is no escaping the bad cartoons.... i miss the good ones so much! *goes to look for season disks of good cartoons*


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Apr 12, 2008)

ADF said:
			
		

> I wish cartoons would bring more mature subjects in them like they used to, rather than shield children from everything wrong in the world.
> 
> For instance as thought provoking and philosophical as this is, it was removed from the film.



probably less because of the thought provoking and philosophical part and maybe more close to scaring the fuck out of kids.


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## Cmdr-A (Apr 12, 2008)

Yup  I remember a time when i wasn't even a teen yet and you could turn the TV on and instantly be entertained by show after show after show.  Now a days i have problems finding anything good. I just plain outright don't watch TV anymore.


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## SFox (Apr 12, 2008)

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
But, I'm a great hater of nostalgia.

I've been a cartoon lover for my whole life and I find that if I go back to watch some old cartoons like Scooby Doo (WAYYYYY too formulaic) and Tom & Jerry I liked I wonder how I ever enjoyed crap like that, whereas I look at some newer cartoons like Foster's Home, My Life as a Teenage Robot, Invader Zim, and Danny Phantom and wish that I had stuff that good when I was a kid.


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## Rin Chambers (Apr 12, 2008)

Yes. They suck. Three words. Chop. Socky. Chooks. The cartoon industry is screwed. Now if we got cartoons, well anime shows, from the creator of Spirited Away.


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## aurindrix (Apr 13, 2008)

The broad range of awesome cartoons definitely wasn't as good as it was growing up. I just think a huge slew of awesome cartoons came around that time. freakazoid and Animaniacs were fantastic examples of good ones.

But if there's a cartoon that airs that I'm a definite fan of, it's metalocalypse.


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## Rin Chambers (Apr 13, 2008)

I hate metalapocalypse with all my heart.


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## Ty Vulpine (Apr 13, 2008)

I look around, and what I mostly see is lousy anime and preachy American-made cartoons nowadays. All because of that legislation passed by Congress back in the early 90s requiring cartoons to be "educational" and "informative".


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## Rin Chambers (Apr 13, 2008)

Another sucky cartoon:  Ed, Edd, n Edfy


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## aurindrix (Apr 13, 2008)

Rin Chambers said:
			
		

> I hate metalapocalypse with all my heart.



What's your vendetta?


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## DarkTalbain64 (Apr 14, 2008)

Nickelodeon used to be good, now there's not even one show on there that interests me.


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## OnyxVulpine (Apr 17, 2008)

Omg I just seen As Told By Ginger on last night.. Love that show :O

-Onyx


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## amtrack88 (Apr 18, 2008)

HANDS DOWN, MAN. 

Beavis and Butt-head, the cartoon I watched pretty much its entire run when I was a little kid.


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## PKBitchGirl (Apr 29, 2008)

I quite like Storm Hawks, possibly something to do with having some cool (and hot) anthro characters in it like Repton and Stork. I haven't come across much evidence of SH fanart on FF (there seems to be around three FF users with SH fanart compared to bucketloads on DeviantArt), I'd really like to see more mature artwork featuring Repton (doesn't really matter who with)


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## Toraie (May 1, 2008)

Yeees. Even anime is getting repetitive nowadays, trying to cater to too many audiences at once. But I stick to it; it's more graphically appealing to me and...bah, I just like it. <3


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## Ty Vulpine (May 1, 2008)

Nimhster said:


> What ever happened to the classics? I voted yes.




I agree. Now it's all anime and preachy American cartoons. (Some anime is good. Wolf's Rain, Voltron, Disgaea)


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## WOLFIE DA FOX (May 1, 2008)

avatar is a really good cartoon with great animation and story but all the other cartoons are made in flash animation and they suck ass. 90'S KID ^^


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## Ty Vulpine (May 1, 2008)

You are? Cool. I'm an 80s kid (Born in 1976). (Which had the best...and worst!...cartoons.)


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## PKBitchGirl (May 1, 2008)

amtrack88 said:


> HANDS DOWN, MAN.
> 
> Beavis and Butt-head, the cartoon I watched pretty much its entire run when I was a little kid.




Huh, huh, huh, huh, cool

Commenting on a Blur video (Park Life, I think)

- "Like what the hell language are they speaking?"
- "It must be English"
- "England sucks"


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## WOLFIE DA FOX (May 1, 2008)

HANNA BARBARA CARTOONS SUCK well they are boreing :/


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## RTDragon (May 1, 2008)

WOLFIE DA FOX said:


> HANNA BARBARA CARTOONS SUCK well they are boreing :/



Do you really want to be flamed with that type of comment.

Hanna Barbera Cartoons were a godsend in the 80's and early 90's.


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## NornHound (May 1, 2008)

Yep.  They sure do.

Being an 80's child, I watched most of the cartoons from that era, and they were all awesome. The story lines, the worlds and the character designs, the mythos, the _animation_. Shows that will forever be worth something as a cartoon than today's trash include _Dinosaucers, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, The Pirates of Dark Water, Transformers, My Little Pony, Scooby-Doo_ and a few animated films: _The last unicorn_, Don Bluth's 80's films, etc. 

The early 90's had a few good cartoons. _Rocko's Modern Life, The Ren & Stimpy Show, Ahhh! Real Monsters!_. Other titles are _Gummi Bears, Darkwing Duck, Bonkers, DuckTales, BeetleJuice, Biker Mice from Mars, The Wuzzles, Wild West C.O.W.Boys of Moo Mesa , Chip'n' Dale Rescue Rangers, The Angry Beavers, Gargoyles. _ Invader Zim is probably the only 'modern' cartoon that was good enough to watch beyond the first episode or two.

The only modern cartoon I watch now with my sister, is Harvey Birdman: Attorney at law, ATHF and Sealab 2021. Good parody show(s) with adult themes, yet it hasn't become over-the-top like South Park. Yet. =P

Today's cartoons have nothing. No story, characters are flat and cliche, no morals,  bad animation. They also happen to get canceled early, whether just to show re-runs of the show; or to create Flash animated Show No.394 with a 'story/plot'-thats-been-done-enough-already-not-to-mention-badly, to replace previous clone.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 1, 2008)

NornHound said:


> Don Bluth's 80's films, etc.



Secret of NIMH! One of the best non-Disney movies made (even though it was done by former Disney artists), and was all hand-drawn, not the CGI crap you see nowadays.


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## NornHound (May 1, 2008)

It is! I've seen that movie a billion times, and I have yet to get sick of it  and that was a good move, Bluth and a few other artists separating from Disney. Dark, animated films are more enjoyable than squeaky clean ones. Dark doesn't mean it has to have no happy!songs at all, it's just.. yeah. The world isn't perfect, and there should be more animated films that reflect that.

CGI? Christ. The only films that needed and had good CGI, for valid reasons and not out of laziness or '_no one wants to see old-school, ugly prosthetics! If we shove in loads of sparkly CGI, our film will be popular!_' are Jurassic Park #1, DragonHeart.. that's all I can come up with at the moment.


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## Ty Vulpine (May 1, 2008)

NornHound said:


> It is! I've seen that movie a billion times, and I have yet to get sick of it  and that was a good move, Bluth and a few other artists separating from Disney. Dark, animated films are more enjoyable than squeaky clean ones. Dark doesn't mean it has to have no happy!songs at all, it's just.. yeah. The world isn't perfect, and there should be more animated films that reflect that.
> 
> CGI? Christ. The only films that needed and had good CGI, for valid reasons and not out of laziness or '_no one wants to see old-school, ugly prosthetics! If we shove in loads of sparkly CGI, our film will be popular!_' are Jurassic Park #1, DragonHeart.. that's all I can come up with at the moment.



I was reading wikipedia about "The Land Before Time" a few weeks ago and found out that it was originally to have a "dark" ending. The characters were originally planned to have died, and then found the "Great Valley" (as a kind of Heaven) but the studio was afraid kids would get sad, and forced the producers to change it. Sadly, the film with the alternate ending was supposedly thrown out, and lost forever.


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## CarlMinez (Aug 30, 2008)

Media for children has never been to good. When the first cartoons saw the sun everybody was impressed. These days, cartoons are mostly watched by kiddies and that's why few people wants to but any real achievements into it.


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## bozzles (Aug 30, 2008)

I was beginning to think so, but then Flapjack appeared and I was all like "awesome."


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## Ty Vulpine (Aug 30, 2008)

I smell necro'd thread...


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## Camisado (Aug 31, 2008)

Spongebob > everything else.

Although it has declined in quality, it's still one of the best (if not thee best) cartoons out there.


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