# Club Like Accounts Aren't Allowed?



## melaniecaffrey (Sep 18, 2009)

I never knew that, is this something new? I have been on here since 06 and I didn't know.
Maybe I overlooked it in the rules, if it is then is there a way to take the one I made now then? Without any trouble?


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## Aurali (Sep 18, 2009)

If I remember correctly, only some kinds of club accounts are allowed. The site is an art community, so clubs supporting super mario video games wouldn't be very likely to be allowed...


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## Verin Asper (Sep 18, 2009)

yea somewhat
there are groups for different states, or regions


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## melaniecaffrey (Sep 18, 2009)

Eli said:


> If I remember correctly, only some kinds of club accounts are allowed. The site is an art community, so clubs supporting super mario video games wouldn't be very likely to be allowed...



Well I made one for people that are Straight Edge and if they don't mind so long as I give them credits, they can post art by allowing me to save the pic and upload it myself that way no one has the password but me.


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## Vaelarsa (Sep 18, 2009)

I really don't see much of a point.
(Though I do have some state ones on my profile, just because they're there. Sue me.)

But if it's putting an unnecessary strain on server space, I say let the admins take them away.
It's just as easy to write "IM TOTALLY SxE DRUGS IS BAD!!!" on your profile, as it is to link a club's icon.


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## tsawolf (Sep 18, 2009)

If I remember back to Administration 101, I believe that groups/clubs are permitted _at the discretion of the administrative staff_.  Unlike normal accounts, they can be removed if there is any trouble surrounding it, even if it is not the fault of the group/club owner.  The club/group may also be removed if an administrator believes there is the possibility of trouble surrounding the aforementioned, even if none has occurred.  Additionally, there are no ban lengths or formal appeals, like there are for normal accounts.  It's just... over.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

Has the ADLM been banned yet? :V


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## Verin Asper (Sep 18, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> Has the ADLM been banned yet? :V


they havent been banned due to the leader cracking down and properly organize the group


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> they havent been banned due to the leader cracking down and properly organize the group


What a kiss-ass D:<


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## melaniecaffrey (Sep 18, 2009)

Vaelarsa said:


> I really don't see much of a point.
> (Though I do have some state ones on my profile, just because they're there. Sue me.)
> 
> But if it's putting an unnecessary strain on server space, I say let the admins take them away.
> It's just as easy to write "IM TOTALLY SxE DRUGS IS BAD!!!" on your profile, as it is to link a club's icon.



I do have that written in my profile....I only made it cuz not everyone likes drugs so I made it for those people is all.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 18, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> What a kiss-ass D:<


hey now you asked, I answered dont be hating on me for not signing that petition


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 18, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> hey now you asked, I answered dont be hating on me for not signing that petition


Not you, and shut up about that e_e


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## Devious Bane (Sep 18, 2009)

This has always been a rule I believe.
Apparently someone grew a pair and started enforcing it or not.


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## Rehka (Sep 18, 2009)

Ok, I have the BC group account, its been rumored that these accounts will be shut down enirely. What's the official word on state/province/country accounts?


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## Devious Bane (Sep 18, 2009)

None yet.


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## Kaamos (Sep 18, 2009)

So was this group banned because they're getting rid of group acounts?


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## Devious Bane (Sep 18, 2009)

America was also banned, meaning the States/Providences have a high chance on being next.


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## Rehka (Sep 18, 2009)

so despite this subject coming up several times in the past, this is just all of a sudden being enforced?


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## Devious Bane (Sep 18, 2009)

Pretty much.


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## Rehka (Sep 18, 2009)

Fantastic. I guess they just wanted to make sure they were irritating a lot of people then, instead of just a few. 

After 3 years, my faith in the administration is (finally?) slumping :/


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## Ratte (Sep 18, 2009)

The point is to keep it art-based instead of fucking custom emoticon accounts and other shit that just takes up space.

But yeah, it was sudden.


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## Armaetus (Sep 19, 2009)

I second that, what is the point of these groups anyways? Can we get a rundown what other "Groups" were banned too?


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## Adelio Altomar (Sep 19, 2009)

Glaice said:


> I second that, what is the point of these groups anyways? Can we get a rundown what other "Groups" were banned too?



They were supposed to bring together other furs from the same country/state/province together and bring awareness of other furs from that area... =\

Unfortunately, some people took that waaaay too seriously, like that guy who ran the :iconamericanfurs: account...


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## Rehka (Sep 19, 2009)

What happend with that account anyway? I knew of its existance and that its since been banned, but none of the other place accounts have been banned (that I'm aware of) but past that... Did something happen there?


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## Azure (Sep 19, 2009)

LOL sXe.


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## kuroookamitsume (Sep 19, 2009)

The only club I know of, (Which the owner got banned as well) is GanjaArmy.

I already sent a warning out to TakoWolf to watch out that her club may be canceled next. She started SAIFurs.


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## Sasho (Sep 19, 2009)

Could someone explain to me why groups that tout conservative values were banned but the liberal one's were not? Seems to be 'profiling' nothing on the group was incediary. I thought this was the united states that the site is based in, giving us the freedom to assemble and to say our mind


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## Devious Bane (Sep 19, 2009)

Sasho said:


> Could someone explain to me why groups that tout conservative values were banned but the liberal one's were not? Seems to be 'profiling' nothing on the group was incediary. I thought this was the united states that the site is based in, giving us the freedom to assemble and to say our mind


The mods half-assing their job/enforcement? It's not like all the group accounts they plan on banning are linked to one - ADLM.


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## Zalin (Sep 19, 2009)

The groups banned included GanjaArmy, ConservativeFurs, GOPFurs, and the old AmericanFurs page.

GanjaArmy violated the rules quite clearly. The offense was well outlined and explained.

ConservativeFurs and GOPFurs were not provided an explanation. And notably, DNCFurs was left intact... Even though if this staff member who banned the page did their research, they would find it easy. Right on my page at the bottom of my comments was a comment by the maker of DNCFurs. And right at the bottom of the GOPFurs page was a series of comments (Since lost due to the flood of comments following our opening day)... Again advertising his political status. A quick inspection of his page shows DNC clear and visible. Not to mention the fact he made a post on the NRA page while on his DNC account.

And then AmericanFurs... I have no clue whats going on there. We got 2, so no big deal.


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## Devious Bane (Sep 19, 2009)

Zalin said:


> And then AmericanFurs... I have no clue whats going on there. We got 2, so no big deal.


http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/948684/#cid:7918406
For quote, "It was that it violated FA policies of not allowing group accounts."
The basic concept that should have already been enforced.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 19, 2009)

oh well, at least art groups wont be banned


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## Devious Bane (Sep 19, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> oh well, at least art groups wont be banned yet


Fix'd

Edit: Nvm, debatable.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 19, 2009)

Devious Bane said:


> Fix'd


that fix wont work really
then Blotch would have to be banned as Blotch is two folks working together
that what I mean as a art group


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## Devious Bane (Sep 19, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> that fix wont work really
> then Blotch would have to be banned as Blotch is two folks working together
> that what I mean as a art group


I was referring to groups like http://www.furaffinity.net/user/cleanartist
Not accounts accessed by 2 different people.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 19, 2009)

Devious Bane said:


> I was referring to groups like http://www.furaffinity.net/user/cleanartist
> Not accounts accessed by 2 different people.


a group that dont really realize it is the Majority of the art?
now that is a waste, but If its 2-4 folks working together to do a series or a neat idea under a guise of a single person then thats not bad


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## Armaetus (Sep 19, 2009)

What about these groups?

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/explosivefur
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/indianafur
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/damnitdrawinc
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ganjaarmy (Banned, lol)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/anti-dramallamamovement
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/adlmdailyspotlight
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/michiganfurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/americanfurs (Not banned, if one is why not this one?)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/composers
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mississippifurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/nevadafurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/newhampshirefurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/nmfurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/southdakotafurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/utah-furs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/virginiafurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/cleanartist
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/iloveyiff
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/spain
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/malefurry (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/femalefurry (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/tranfurry (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gayfurry (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/lesbianfurry (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/bifurry (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/360furs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/wiifurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ps3furs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ps2furs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/pcfurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gopfurs (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/conservativefurs (Banned)
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ricanfurs
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/prfurries

Come on! We don't need all this shit!


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## Kaamos (Sep 19, 2009)

What is ADLM? I've seen that mentioned twice in this thread and I've never heard about it before.


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## Lobo Roo (Sep 19, 2009)

So, are all clubs being banned, or what? You know, either way there's nothing I can do about it, but consistency would be nice.

What about stuff like United Muscle Furs, that's actually there to post art? Are those next? I read through this thread without ever actually getting a clear idea of what the hell is going on.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 19, 2009)

Lobo Roo said:


> I read through this thread without ever actually getting a clear idea of what the hell is going on.


Sounds like a personal problem to me :V

According to tsawolf, art-related groups are allowed, while groups not art-related are not.


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## Rehka (Sep 19, 2009)

I really wish an admin would post some sort of clarification here, on where the placename groups lay on this line at least. Arguably, the groups could bring people together who live in the same area to do artwork together, foster friendships and possibly produce more art.

But i suppose then, the question is where do you draw the line? seems like this line is a scribble across the site right now, with very picky-choosy enforcement.


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## OtakuMan24 (Sep 19, 2009)

You know guys... sometimes you take things way too far sometimes and get all worked up over nothing major.  I mean it's the weekend!  Let's try and relax!

Oh by the way, I'm Otaku-Man; founder of the ADLM (Anti-Drama Llama Movement).  For those of you who are wondering, I just checked and the ADLM is NOT banned, and everything else looks good and frosty.  My group's been around since the beginning of March, we've got over 500 members (not too shabby), and our goal is to just try and encourage people to do good around FA and help one another out.  And as far as I know, the admins know about it and are okay with it so long as we don't start any trouble.

Speaking of admins, let's take a look back here at what tsawolf said about group accounts, noting that tsawolf IS an admin.



tsawolf said:


> If I remember back to Administration 101, I believe that groups/clubs are permitted _at the discretion of the administrative staff_.  Unlike normal accounts, they can be removed if there is any trouble surrounding it, even if it is not the fault of the group/club owner.  The club/group may also be removed if an administrator believes there is the possibility of trouble surrounding the aforementioned, even if none has occurred.  Additionally, there are no ban lengths or formal appeals, like there are for normal accounts.  It's just... over.



What interests me most is this phrase:

*"...are permitted at the discretion of the administrative staff."*

In essence, if the admins are cool with the group, then it's all good.  If there's a problem or the group can easily become a source of problems, then the group gets shut down.

As far as I know, there is no explicit rule under the TOS or AUP that says that group accounts aren't allowed.  What's more is that the admins don't have an admin rulebook either.  There's no strict set of guidelines, qualifications, or standards for the admins.  It's all more or less played by ear.

But that's another story for another time.  Let's take a look at why the groups that were banned were banned.

First, the AmericanFur group:

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but that's actually the SECOND American Fur group here on FA.  The first was this one here:

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/americanfurs

This group was the first, but had some problems when the group account was taken over by one of the assitants going so far as to change the password.  The guy who made the group then said "Forget it, I don't have time to deal with this, I'm out."  So the other one, AmericanFur (singular tense), was formed by someone else as a means to fill the gap.  For a while it was good, and it started collaborating to make a US state and territory list of groups made by other furs.  Now these state groups are totally separate, not made by the same person, and help furs in a state find one other, organize furmeets, and generally have fun and hang out and be social.

(I for one encourage that.)

Now apparently there was some issue with this group that I honestly have no idea about.  I wasn't there, I didn't hear anything, I couldn't tell yah.  What I do know is that people went to the guy who made the ORIGINAL AmericanFurs (plural tense) group to come back, and after a while, he did!

So now we had TWO American Fur groups, and my GUESS (I don't know for certain) as to why this second group closed was because some folks didn't like it, and it was no longer necessary now that the original group was back up and running.  I could be wrong, but that's my guess.

Second, the ConservativeFur group:

This one actually makes a bit more sense to me as to why it was shut down.  Politics, along with religion, are two things that you NEVER EVER talk about with associates or people you don't know very well.  They are often very divisive, argumentative, and are known for much mud-slinging.  I personally don't mind if someone is a conservative, or a Republican, or whatever, just as long as they don't try and shove their platform or beliefs down my throat.

By having that group there, it was just begging for there to be journals, threads, and activities to promote political viewpoints here on FA, which is an ART community.  If it was a political community with a city hall like forum, then that's one thing, but here it could easily lead to all kinds of trouble.  Hence, why it was shut down.

Now I notice some of you mention that there's a democratic group as well which, at last check, wasn't shut down.  I feel that if the conservative group was shut down, then that one should be too.  No matter what side of politics it is, it can easily break apart friendships, relationships, and cause mud-slinging here on FA.  If the democratic group hasn't been shut down by now, then it should be.

Third, and lastly, the GanjaArmy group:

This group really shouldn't come as a surprise.  At last check, smoking weed is illegal, and is also a very strong topic of debate and argument.  Until laws are passed that say otherwise, marijuana is a very, VERY difficult topic.

On the GanjaArmy group page, the administrator that closed it wrote that group accounts aren't allowed, but apparently, according to tsawolf, that is a mistake.  The administrator who closed that account errored on that statement.

HOWEVER!

What they WERE right about was that posting photos of illegal paraphenalia IS illegal, and if left alone, could get FA into a lot of trouble.  (Remember, as owner, everything falls on Dragoneer's head, so the last thing he wants is legal liability for what someone else does.)  Whether the group was "NARCed" or not is rather moot.  What matters is that the group was banned not so much because group accounts aren't allowed, but because what they were doing violated the law.

And that's no good.

Finally,

@Glaice

The regional groups are for furs to share what part of the world they live in and find and make new friends with other furs on FA who are in the vicinity.  They can arrange gatherings, hang out, and be social.  

The gender and orientation groups are so people don't confuse someone's characters with who they really are.  You'd be surprised how many people think girls are guys and vice versa.  It also helps when meeting other people.  Whether straight or gay, sometimes a hook up happens here on FA.  These groups just help eliminate some confusion.

The gaming and computer groups are for people to connect for social gaming.  They can share GamerTags, Friend Codes, Network IDs, and the like so they can hook up, play games, and have fun.  There's a lot of gamers on FA.

And lastly, CleanArtist and ILoveYiff are for people to state on whether they like their art clean or dirty.  The two groups are good friends and encourage peace and harmony amongst those involved in a common FA argument: Does the furry fandom need an image makeover?  If you aren't familiar with that, don't worry about it.

And...

@Rigor Sardonicus

I wouldn't say I'm so much of a kiss-ass as I am someone who just wants to go by FA's rules so I can keep doing what I want and like to do.  Simple as that.

Okay, I'm done.  Nothing else to see here folks, move along.

~Otaku-Man


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 19, 2009)

Rehka said:


> I really wish an admin would post some sort of clarification here


You mean like this post?


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## Rehka (Sep 20, 2009)

D'oh >.< Missed that  thanks ^^;


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## Kaamos (Sep 20, 2009)

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/earthlingfurs

:|      Really?



OtakuMan24 said:


> ADLM (Anti-Drama Llama Movement).



Oh, right. derp.


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## Dragoneer (Sep 20, 2009)

Rehka said:


> so despite this subject coming up several times in the past, this is just all of a sudden being enforced?


Well, we've banned inappropriate groups when they're noticed and found out, but these things have a way of creeping up overnight like a meme.

Group/shared accounts, which post art, pictures or stories (in compliance with the rules) are fine. Always have been. The problem is that people are using "club" accounts in a _"If you like peas +watch me and :embed: me on your page!" _sort of way. We don't need "Fans of French Fries" on FA. That's the stuff that grotesquely waters a site down while providing zero content, and ends up nothing more than Facebook-like quiz spam. Over time, it wastes site resources.

The TOS will be updated to reflect our stance on groups next week.


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## OtakuMan24 (Sep 20, 2009)

Kaamos said:


> http://www.furaffinity.net/user/earthlingfurs
> 
> :|      Really?
> 
> ...



Okay, so Earthling furs is kind of a silly thing in a way, but at the same time it's also making the statement of "It doesn't matter who we are, we're all Earthlings."

It's why I'm a member.  

~Otaku-Man


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## OtakuMan24 (Sep 20, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> Well, we've banned inappropriate groups when they're noticed and found out, but these things have a way of creeping up overnight like a meme.
> 
> Group/shared accounts, which post art, pictures or stories (in compliance with the rules) are fine. Always have been. The problem is that people are using "club" accounts in a _"If you like peas +watch me and :embed: me on your page!" _sort of way. We don't need "Fans of French Fries" on FA. That's the stuff that grotesquely waters a site with zero content, and ends up nothing more than Facebook-like quiz spam. Over time, it wastes site resources.
> 
> The TOS will be updated to reflect our stance on groups next week.



I'm actually really glad to see you popped in here, as there are a couple of questions I wanted to ask about groups that are close to me.

First, there's my group, the Anti-Drama Llama Movement.  It's a group focused on helping out people around here on FA, and we've actually talked about it back in April/May.  That was back when I was trying to do raffles and then learned that it was a big no-no and immediately ceased and desisted.  Since then, I've focused on some other efforts and topics of discussion, and have been doing rather alright.

By these new TOS rules that will be written out next week, will my group be safe?  Of course, the group has had art inspired by the group's efforts favorited and posted there, and also had quite a bit of writing done on there too.  Without those, would the group be in danger, or is the fact that the group has a purpose be enough for it to exist?

I can see what you mean if a group only exists to have an icon that people post in their profiles.  That might explain the reason the "Comment before you Favorite" group was banned.  It doesn't post journals, have favorites, or offer any sort of submissions.

My other concern are the region based groups such as the one American fur group (the one that wasn't banned), the Europe based groups, state based groups, and the other ones.  I think they serve a useful purpose by helping local furs meet one another, make new friends, and maybe even gather into local furmeets.

In short, would groups that actually serve a purpose, OTHER than providing an icon to post on someone's profile, be protected even if they don't post submissions regularly, but post journals and favorite often?

~Otaku-Man


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## Dragoneer (Sep 20, 2009)

OtakuMan24 said:


> By these new TOS rules that will be written out next week, will my group be safe?  Of course, the group has had art inspired by the group's efforts favorited and posted there, and also had quite a bit of writing done on there too.  Without those, would the group be in danger, or is the fact that the group has a purpose be enough for it to exist?
> 
> ...
> 
> My other concern are the region based groups such as the one American fur group (the one that wasn't banned), the Europe based groups, state based groups, and the other ones.  I think they serve a useful purpose by helping local furs meet one another, make new friends, and maybe even gather into local furmeets.


I ask that you wait until the rule update comes out before worrying. We're aware of this (and certain other ramifications) and are working on writing the rules to work to be clear and concise.


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## OtakuMan24 (Sep 20, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> I ask that you wait until the rule update comes out before worrying. We're aware of this (and certain other ramifications) and are working on writing the rules to work to be clear and concise.



Thanks.  I appreciate that you're taking the time and effort to take this all into consideration.  I know it's a tough job, but I also know that you're quite fair and understanding.  I'll let my group members know about the update, and also tell them to wait and not worry until it happens.

Take care 'Neer.

~Otaku-Man


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## dmfalk (Sep 20, 2009)

The only thing here, is that some were using some of these club accounts to cause trouble, especially in terms of politics, especially in light of recent town-hall meeting disruptions and "tea parties" IRL-- And causing trouble, including inflammatory statements and the like, actually ARE against the rules spelled out in the TOS and AUP, as with any form of harassment.

Other than conducting questionable activities outside the scope of the site, I would think this should be the only limit placed upon club accounts.

No, I don't belong to any.

d.m.f.


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## Armaetus (Sep 20, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> Well, we've banned inappropriate groups when they're noticed and found out, but these things have a way of creeping up overnight like a meme.
> 
> The TOS will be updated to reflect our stance on groups next week.



How about this?

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/citras/

What's next, foxes/wolves/felines/dragons groups? :|


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## Rehka (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks for clarification Dragoneer, I look forward to reading the updates- even if it does have adverse ramifications on placename groups


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 20, 2009)

I know it's a pipe dream, but I think FA would be a much better place if sucking up to people was against the rules. Somebody ought to make a club for that. Call it the "Anti-Toady Movement" or something. I'm just saying.


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## Aurali (Sep 20, 2009)

Glaice said:


> How about this?
> 
> http://www.furaffinity.net/user/citras/
> 
> What's next, foxes/wolves/felines/dragons groups? :|



That one would probably be allowed since it's art based. :/


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## Armaetus (Sep 20, 2009)

Isn't the point to post your own art on your own account?


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## OtakuMan24 (Sep 20, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> I know it's a pipe dream, but I think FA would be a much better place if sucking up to people was against the rules. Somebody ought to make a club for that. Call it the "Anti-Toady Movement" or something. I'm just saying.



I wouldn't say that I'm being a toady or anything.  I'm not brown-nosing, and I don't always agree with Neer's decisions.  I see it as being appreciative of his input and respectful.  If we were close friends, I might use less formal language, but we're not.  To me, polite language is appropriate here.

I mean think about it, would you want to be on the bad side of the site OWNER?!  Come on now.

~Otaku-Man


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 20, 2009)

OtakuMan24 said:


> I wouldn't say that I'm being a toady or anything.


Of course _you_ wouldn't. Just as _I_ wouldn't say I were insulting anybody unjustly with anything I've ever said (with a few exceptions). It doesn't stop others from seeing it differently.



> I mean think about it, would you want to be on the bad side of the site OWNER?!  Come on now.


If one wishes to be formal, "Thank you for your consideration" is considered sufficient in most English-speaking circles.


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## OtakuMan24 (Sep 21, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> Of course _you_ wouldn't. Just as _I_ wouldn't say I were insulting anybody unjustly with anything I've ever said (with a few exceptions). It doesn't stop others from seeing it differently.
> 
> If one wishes to be formal, "Thank you for your consideration" is considered sufficient in most English-speaking circles.



I'd rather err on the side of caution, personally.  Better to be too polite than not polite enough if you ask me.

Anyway, out of curiosity, are there any groups that you are in favor of on FA?

~Otaku-Man


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## benjamin33 (Sep 21, 2009)

Okay i would really like to know whats going to happen to the state and species groups on FA.

I really think they should stick around because there a vitae part of finding other furs of your type, and other furs in your area.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 21, 2009)

OtakuMan24 said:


> I'd rather err on the side of caution, personally.  Better to be too polite than not polite enough if you ask me.
> 
> Anyway, out of curiosity, are there any groups that you are in favor of on FA?


Certainly.

To wit:
[faicon]poets-guild[/faicon] [faicon]apophysisuser[/faicon]* [faicon]Ilovecritique[/faicon] [faicon]fursforatheism[/faicon]* [faicon]fawriters[/faicon]
There are doubtless an appreciable number of other groups I would support if only I knew about them. All but two of the above, you see, are clearly art-related; of the two, one can in theory receive art and the other is for users of a fractal-flame program.

See the difference? They're _art groups_, not "movements".


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## Armaetus (Sep 21, 2009)

The writer's groups and critique group should stay, the other two should not.

Species groups should be nuked as there's really no need for that...we have the "Species" field on our user profile to enter that.


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Sep 21, 2009)

Glaice said:


> The writer's groups and critique group should stay, the other two should not.


It's a good thing he asked which groups I _support_, then, and not which ones _you_ feel should stay.



> Species groups should be nuked as there's really no need for that...we have the "Species" field on our user profile to enter that.


That's nice.


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## TakeWalker (Sep 21, 2009)

benjamin33 said:


> Okay i would really like to know whats going to happen to the state and species groups on FA.
> 
> I really think they should stick around because there a vitae part of finding other furs of your type, and other furs in your area.



Or you could use, yaknow, another site designed specifically for this sort of thing: http://ifpl.cattech.org/


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## yak (Sep 21, 2009)

TakeWalker said:


> Or you could use, yaknow, another site designed specifically for this sort of thing: http://ifpl.cattech.org/



http://furrymap.net/


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## Verin Asper (Sep 21, 2009)

Glaice said:


> Isn't the point to post your own art on your own account?


Then tell that to the two people who use Blotch


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## Ahkahna (Sep 21, 2009)

Crysix Corps said:


> Then tell that to the two people who use Blotch



Blotch are two people who work on a singular project together. One draws, one colors. Together they make a single entity, and a single piece of artwork. They never post work by one artist or the other, when they do it's on their own accounts. In other words, collaborative artists.


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## Kelpie (Sep 21, 2009)

Hopefully this will be announced to everyone in a way that they'll all see that such a change is occurring.  Because, otherwise, I foresee people making new groups to make up for the ones that got banned and playing the 'I didn't know' card.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that was already happening since there's no explanation of it and especially not on FA itself.


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## PhantomLion (Sep 21, 2009)

I notice all the gender clubs have been banned as well, such as the male, gay, bi furry groups, why is that exactly?


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## DalmyDog (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm confused Dragoneer. Don't you think it seems a little pointless to ban the Gay furry, Straight furry, etc. pages. I mean it wasn't hurting anyone. It was like [FAicon]Commentplz[/faicon] or [faicon]ilovecritque[/faicon]. Just showing who you are or what you apperciate.

I'll send you a DM (twitter) about this, but I'm really concerned. I'm working on the [faicon]Ohiofurs[/faicon] page in order to help plan out cons, furmeets, and help people in different areas of Ohio meet each other or collaborate on artwork. Is this in jeopardy? I think giving a full statement to the community would really help in clearing up the matter.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 21, 2009)

Recap.

Clubs should be art related. 

You posting your sexuality, no matter how artful you might think it is, is not art related. Please use another site to have this kind of club. Same for your religious affiliation, and political beliefs. There is a lot of stuff that "doesn't hurt anyone" but it's not the general focus of FA being an art site. Your profile info is good for this, and if you really need a club there are other places to host this.

Locale groups are iffy if they were art related for meets. However, as pointed out previously in this thread, you can use certain services outside FA and post it on your journal to help organize cons and other locale meets for your members.

Fan clubs are generally not art related. It's great you like Final Fantasy, Sonic the Hedgehog and all but this is not the site to host a club for it. Fan of another member's artwork I think shouldn't be allowed because it's just more of being a fan when you can just watch that person's account. So it really serves little purpose. Fan of a species/fetish, you have search now, however...

For you, By You policy is in effect in having these clubs. You cannot have a club about "Big Furry Boobies" and post art that isn't for you or by you. This is not an image board, so do not have clubs that post art that doesn't follow this. You can however, use the club to have it for favorites or have members submit art specifically for your ART club.

Accountability. Clubs I can see from an administrative standpoint should be discouraged entirely for some of the following reasons.

Could be seen as ban evasion (though to be fair, it can be seen when people have multiple accounts for photography etc - though a gallery folder would help this issue))

Multiple users having access to the same account, therefore can cause security compromises. 

Resources...more accounts could be seen as a waste (though if someone isn't an artist and is a watcher same could be said for him/her). 

That being said, there are clubs that do have strong points for the artistic community I love critique helps with people who actually want real feedback. Writers group, so that writers can help each other. Artists who collaborate on works is another example.


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## benjamin33 (Sep 21, 2009)

Arshes Nei said:


> Recap.
> You can however, use the club to have it for favorites or have members submit art specifically for your ART club.



Thank you so much for clearing this up.


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## TakeWalker (Sep 21, 2009)

yak said:


> http://furrymap.net/



IFPL doesn't choke my computer. 

Why they gotta keep making the same site over and over, yo?


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## Aurali (Sep 21, 2009)

Well put Arshes: *takes notes for future reference*



TakeWalker said:


> IFPL doesn't choke my computer.
> 
> Why they gotta keep making the same site over and over, yo?



because no one knows how to googlefu


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## Armaetus (Sep 22, 2009)

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/superwegeebros/

What's the goddamn point of this one, mods/staff/admins? Nothing but stupid fucking Weegee photoshopped images from the internet.


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## Aurali (Sep 22, 2009)

Glaice said:


> http://www.furaffinity.net/user/superwegeebros/
> 
> What's the goddamn point of this one, mods/staff/admins? Nothing but stupid fucking Weegee photoshopped images from the internet.



Sweetheart, next time you find one, report it please. The staff can not find them all. :/ The site is too big.
http://www.furaffinity.net/controls/troubletickets/


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## Armaetus (Sep 22, 2009)

Eli said:


> Sweetheart, next time you find one, report it please. The staff can not find them all. :/ The site is too big.
> http://www.furaffinity.net/controls/troubletickets/



I already filed one for that earlier in the day


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## nexiahatch (Sep 22, 2009)

A couple of thoughts occurred to me regarding the state/gender/sexuality/movement support type groups (i.e. the groups that aren't specifically for the art): 1. How about justifying said groups by posting artwork, organizing group meets, involving people together and doing something with the group rather than just posting it as an icon to put in users profiles; and 2. On the other hand, why not try implementing some kind of "sticker" "stamp" "banner" type software that allows artists to create submissions specifically to place in profiles, similar to what Deviantart.com has going on. For instance, simply modifying the profiles to allow images of a certain size and dimension to be embedded in the profile information, and I say, simple because it is simply a matter of allowing certain html image coding to be placed within profiles.


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## ShadowEon (Sep 22, 2009)

I don't agree with banning these. FA is turning more and more into a bunch of natzis.


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## Nightingalle (Sep 22, 2009)

ShadowEon said:


> I don't agree with banning these. FA is turning more and more into a bunch of natzis.



*Nazis.


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## ShadowEon (Sep 22, 2009)

KoiFishSushi said:


> *Nazis.



it's 1:30am, I am not all here,ok?>.>


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 22, 2009)

nexiahatch said:


> *makes suggestions that makes sense



I don't disagree with this actually. It was discussed by Carenath earlier. Just that for now, I don't think people should be using iconspam for these clubs. I do think there should be some kind of "thumbs/stamp" system like you said.

Also ShadowEon why in the hell did you need to Godwin the thread? :facepalm:


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## ShadowEon (Sep 22, 2009)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't disagree with this actually. It was discussed by Carenath earlier. Just that for now, I don't think people should be using iconspam for these clubs. I do think there should be some kind of "thumbs/stamp" system like you said.
> 
> Also ShadowEon why in the hell did you need to Godwin the thread? :facepalm:



I just like showed up,said what I thought without reading what most people said and left.So I dunno?o.o Me sorries.


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## benjamin33 (Sep 22, 2009)

Arshes Nei said:


> I do think there should be some kind of "thumbs/stamp" system like you said.



I third it


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## Asswings (Sep 22, 2009)

Arshes Nei said:


> Also ShadowEon why in the hell did you need to Godwin the thread? :facepalm:



That's usually my job.


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## GraemeLion (Sep 22, 2009)

ShadowEon said:


> I don't agree with banning these. FA is turning more and more into a bunch of natzis.



Yes. Absolutely.

Banning club accounts is wholly and completely equivalent to setting in forth motions to exterminate groups of people.

Thank you for pointing out how this crime against humanity is occurring.


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## Armaetus (Sep 22, 2009)

redcard said:


> Yes. Absolutely.
> 
> Banning club accounts is wholly and completely equivalent to setting in forth motions to exterminate groups of people.
> 
> Thank you for pointing out how this crime against humanity is occurring.




They are usually a waste of space, as the last one I linked to....do you even see any use for that one besides just for the lulz?

ShadowEon: Sounds like you are butthurt because you are affillated with one of more groups in that giant list I posted way above.


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## Milo (Sep 22, 2009)

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gayfurry/

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/straightfurries

hm... explain this one to me... :V


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## TheGoodShepherd (Sep 22, 2009)

Well this is a bummer, but I can understand why you're cracking down on most of them if they're causing problems.

Question though, you banned 

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/fafurries
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ffafurries

which I found useful to help find people who share that specific interest with me. Now I'm not aware there was any drama surrounding them, so were they banned just because you're cracking down on groups? Would be a pity if certain groups which help bring like-minded people together can't be formed. 

Obviously off the wall groups like "POTATO CHIP LOVERS" would be pushing the envelope, and while I did have the bifurry group on my page I can see why that's a waste of bandwidth since I could just write it in, but a group for fat furries and the people who like them makes a little more sense to me. 


~Toby


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## Armaetus (Sep 22, 2009)

john8792 said:


> the straight, bi, gay, etc... furry groups were a true waste of space, lol



As are the "insert fetish here"-furs groups.


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## Dragoneer (Sep 22, 2009)

TheGoodShepherd said:


> Would be a pity if certain groups which help bring like-minded people together can't be formed.


I understand the concern there, but we have always cracked down on people creating accounts just to use for :embed: icons. Unfortunately, these groups have not been used for actual content, but for the most part just to be used on the userpage as a sort of icon to express an interest. It served no purpose, and the more of them there were the more strain there is on the site (albeit very little).

Again, yes, we are cracking down on this... but I'm going to propose an alternative to coders that I think may be a very reasonable compromise and entirely do-able. User accounts were /never/ meant to be used in this way, and we said from the start people could use shared user accounts FOR art related purposes.

That said, I'm going to draft up the idea this weekend, but I think it will be a compromise the community and live with and appreciate. And no, I have no ETA on it at this time. We respect and understand the value of certain "groups" to the community, so trust me when I say we understand that. There's a certain balance to find. However, as it stands now, 95% of these groups are completely empty except for people using them as :embeds:.

We have always closed these down when found, but lately these accounts have been popping up all over the place (quite literally) with some people creating far more than their fair share. Again, it sort of sprung up overnight and became a problem. Like killer mushrooms. They're very real.


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## Rehka (Sep 22, 2009)

A question for you, will those of us who created such location-orientated groups. (Canada, US... Whatever) be reprimanded for creating such groups if it is decided that such groups will not be permitted?


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## Ahkahna (Sep 22, 2009)

Rehka said:


> A question for you, will those of us who created such location-orientated groups. (Canada, US... Whatever) be reprimanded for creating such groups if it is decided that such groups will not be permitted?



Very unlikely, the only exception to this would be drug related or obvious troll accounts OR people who have been warned and continue to make new accounts against the wishes of administration.


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## Rehka (Sep 22, 2009)

*whew!* thanks :3


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## Armaetus (Sep 22, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> I understand the concern there, but we have always cracked down on people creating accounts just to use for :embed: icons. Unfortunately, these groups have not been used for actual content, but for the most part just to be used on the userpage as a sort of icon to express an interest. It served no purpose, and the more of them there were the more strain there is on the site (albeit very little).



Do you mean like this: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/teeeheee


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## Dragoneer (Sep 22, 2009)

Glaice said:


> Do you mean like this: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/teeeheee


No, that's a legitimate account since somebody id actually uploading valid content to it.


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## TheGoodShepherd (Sep 22, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> and the more of them there were the more strain there is on the site (albeit very little).




I understand, it may be a little strain here and there but it adds up.

And I'm curious as to what your idea is, you've sparked my interest.


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## Dragoneer (Sep 22, 2009)

TheGoodShepherd said:


> I understand, it may be a little strain here and there but it adds up.
> 
> And I'm curious as to what your idea is, you've sparked my interest.


I want to run it by the coders first for feasibility before I share it.


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## TheGoodShepherd (Sep 22, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> I want to run it by the coders first for feasibility before I share it.



Ah, good call.


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## Azure (Sep 23, 2009)

That wasn't an insult at all. Truth hurts.  Even so, on topicness, club accounts are useful in that people can group species stylized art in one place, and find others with the same likes as them all in one place.  FA doesn't have the best search properties, so it makes getting around a little easier.  Though I will say, that Citra art is fucking ghastly, and terrible, and gross, and I would never hang out with them, unless they were offering free booze.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 23, 2009)

Glaice/Chrisdragon: I've asked you enough times to stop spamming "problem" accounts and file a helpdesk ticket. Most of the time you leave insults re the accounts. Do it again and you'll face a ban. You're doing it to troll a reaction and not actually doing the right thing and file a report and keep your insulting comments to yourself.


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## Zalin (Sep 23, 2009)

Question.. Why was GOPFurs banned? It was actively being used.

I am not sure about the first thing I uploaded, but if it did violate any rules, a simple message to me would have been enough to have it removed. I had no personal attachment to it, itwas just meant to get the word out.


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

My account (DNCfurs) was also removed, so it has nothing to do with politics.  All the group accounts are being band, and I have no clue why.  Can somebody, especially an administrator, PLEASE explain to us in clear English why you are banning all of these group accounts?


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## Verin Asper (Sep 23, 2009)

Arshes Nei said:


> Glaice/Chrisdragon: I've asked you enough times to stop spamming "problem" accounts and file a helpdesk ticket. Most of the time you leave insults re the accounts. Do it again and you'll face a ban. You're doing it to troll a reaction and not actually doing the right thing and file a report and keep your insulting comments to yourself.


probably the one time I like you Arshes which is why I dislike Glaice

and also why I'm a dick to him so much


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## Verin Asper (Sep 23, 2009)

anthroguy101 said:


> My account (DNCfurs) was also removed, so it has nothing to do with politics.  All the group accounts are being band, and I have no clue why.  Can somebody, especially an administrator, PLEASE explain to us in clear English why you are banning all of these group accounts?


No art content, no usage, waste of space is the TL;DR version


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

I have an idea: why don't you have a dedicated "group" function on this site (like F4L) so that we can make groups, hold discussions, and place posts?  Why can't this site have an entire "group" section or tab so that furries can find niche people on this site?  Is that too much to ask?


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## Dragoneer (Sep 23, 2009)

anthroguy101 said:


> I have an idea: why don't you have a dedicated "group" function on this site (like F4L) so that we can make groups, hold discussions, and place posts?  Why can't this site have an entire "group" section or tab so that furries can find niche people on this site?  Is that too much to ask?


You can't really compare FA to F4L though. F4L is a "community in a can" via Ning. While they have some features we don't (groups) they're limited in their functions based on what Ning has to offer. It takes mere minutes to create an entirely new community just like F4L on the Ning network since they specialize in pre-made, customizable communities. Features on FA have to be coded and tested by hand. It's possible, but we just can't pop out proper groups overnight.

However, as I previously wrote in this very thread, I am working on something to propose to the coders to act as a "groups" function to do just that.



Arshes Nei said:


> Glaice/Chrisdragon: I've asked you enough times to stop spamming "problem" accounts and file a helpdesk ticket. Most of the time you leave insults re the accounts. Do it again and you'll face a ban. You're doing it to troll a reaction and not actually doing the right thing and file a report and keep your insulting comments to yourself.


I back this 100%.


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> You can't really compare FA to F4L though. F4L is a "community in a can" via Ning. While they have some features we don't (groups) they're limited in their functions based on what Ning has to offer. It takes mere minutes to create an entirely new community just like F4L on the Ning network since they specialize in pre-made, customizable communities. Features on FA have to be coded and tested by hand. It's possible, but we just can't pop out proper groups overnight.
> 
> However, as I previously wrote in this very thread, I am working on something to propose to the coders to act as a "groups" function to do just that.
> 
> I back this 100%.



Oh, I thought you were only going to make us make icons for people to post or something like that.  So, you're going to make a COMPLETE section where we can make groups?  A section where we can all find our niche and join in on discussions?  Or a place where we can make a group, start discussions, and keep track of our view counts and subscribers?


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## Dragoneer (Sep 23, 2009)

anthroguy101 said:


> Oh, I thought you were only going to make us make icons for people to post or something like that.  So, you're going to make a COMPLETE section where we can make groups?  A section where we can all find our niche and join in on discussions?  Or a place where we can make a group, start discussions, and keep track of our view counts and subscribers?


Nothing has been announced.


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

Dragoneer said:


> Nothing has been announced.


When will we get the final word, and where will it be posted?


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## Dragoneer (Sep 23, 2009)

anthroguy101 said:


> When will we get the final word, and where will it be posted?


Forums and we'll make an FA news post on the front page about it.


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks


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## Zalin (Sep 23, 2009)

*waits for a response to his post*


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## Aurali (Sep 23, 2009)

Zalin said:


> *waits for a response to his post*



Because it was just an icon account. Not an artistic one. All of them are getting shut down.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 23, 2009)

Zalin said:


> *waits for a response to his post*


non artistic, or any group account without content are being axed. If its just an icon like showing ya is gay, that not worth having around.

A suggestion is to have something similar but not an actual user, like a stamp system.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 23, 2009)

Zalin said:


> *waits for a response to his post*



I'm sorry but can't you guys take the time to read the posts, it's been explained enough times already.


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## Zalin (Sep 23, 2009)

I have been reading every post, thank you. The problem is none of it concerned me. My account was not just an icon.


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

Zalin said:


> I have been reading every post, thank you. The problem is none of it concerned me. My account was not just an icon.


It doesn't matter, they're going after EVERY group that doesn't have art or stories, and the last time I saw you did NOT have either!


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## anthroguy101 (Sep 23, 2009)

Also, to all admins, I like the "Group" section of the FA site idea better than an "Icon/Stamp" idea, because "Icon/Stamps" cannot help you keep track of what kind of people are in your niche, it doesn't allow you to post discussions, and it in no way helps people find other people with similar interests.


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## Devious Bane (Sep 23, 2009)

I see this thread getting beyond redundant.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 23, 2009)

Zalin said:


> I have been reading every post, thank you. The problem is none of it concerned me. My account was not just an icon.


I'm sorry sadly it is just an icon group
two politic groups tend to create issues hence why both political groups were banned.

you're group had no content worth keeping around, and was a political group.



			
				anthroguy101 said:
			
		

> Also, to all admins, I like the "Group" section of the FA site idea better than an "Icon/Stamp" idea, because "Icon/Stamps" cannot help you keep track of what kind of people are in your niche, it doesn't allow you to post discussions, and it in no way helps people find other people with similar interests.



to tell the truth after asking some of the furs who had those icons in their profile...it wasnt to keep track of someone, heck they didnt even watch the group either, was to just point out
"oh hey I'm gay"
or
"oh hey I'm from florida"
while the group itself doesnt know this person is using their icon.


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## Ahkahna (Sep 23, 2009)

Locked because this thread has given as much information as possible at the current time, do not create any more threads about Groups. If you have any further questions about specific groups (if it's art related or borderline) or links to groups which need our attention:

---> *The Trouble Ticket System*, <--- please use it.

*We will have a decision soon and make an announcement on the News Section of the site.*


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