# How impractical is too impractical?



## ellaerna (Jun 22, 2017)

I keep being drawn to really impractical design choices in characters, like a bat with lace wings or a goat with horns to her ankles. I like the drama of that kind of thing, but it definitely values form over function. 

When you design fursonas and ocs, do you focus more on utility or uniqueness? Would you ever add something on that was just purely for aesthetics? How much do you consider to be too much?


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## Yakamaru (Jun 22, 2017)

When you start hitting 10+ different colours on ONE character and a bazillion jewelry and/or accessories you're entering completely impractical designs. Should look up the term "sparke dog". You'll be surprised.

I am not an artist myself, but I like making the character's outside look more simplistic, whereas the characters' background/backstory and personality is abundant. Makes it a hell'uva lot easier on the artist.


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## ellaerna (Jun 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> When you start hitting 10+ different colours on ONE character and a bazillion jewelry and/or accessories you're entering completely impractical designs. Should look up the term "sparke dog". You'll be surprised.
> 
> I am not an artist myself, but I like making the character's outside look more simplistic, whereas the characters' background/backstory and personality is abundant. Makes it a hell'uva lot easier on the artist.


Haha. I'm familiar with the term. 
Technically being a multicolored fur is not so much impractical as it is... garish? Or at least not impractical in the way I was originally using the word. You could be covered in glitter from head to toe and still retain body functionality, while a bat with lace wings wouldn't be able to use them to fly. Or a goat with egregiously large horns would trip on them or get stuck.
But that's just a nit pick. I completely get where you're coming from. I tend to more simple designs myself with one real statement piece to make it interesting. Like one clever mark or a fantastic jacket or a physical quirk that makes them a little different.


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## Sivath (Jun 22, 2017)

I prefer uniqueness _based on _utility. When I make characters, all their 'special' quirks are usually based on some form of evolution.
If it doesn't have a function, like lace wings, I don't want it. Unless it's a one shot art, not a development of a character.

But, horns to ankles is plausible enough. Male platypus have a spur near his hind feet. It's like a venomous claw.


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## ellaerna (Jun 22, 2017)

Sivath said:


> But, horns to ankles is plausible enough. Male platypus have a spur near his hind feet. It's like a venomous claw.


So here is an_ absolutely beautiful _rendition of what I was thinking about that I whipped up in MSPaint 2 sec ago (the brown line is the horn):



 
Poor thing wouldn't be able to sit down.


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## Sivath (Jun 22, 2017)

ellaerna said:


> So here is an_ absolutely beautiful _rendition of what I was thinking about that I whipped up in MSPaint 2 sec ago (the brown line is the horn):
> View attachment 19665
> Poor thing wouldn't be able to sit down.


Ahahahaha!! Oh, horns _to_ ankles xD
Okay, I thought it was horns on ankles.
But, that could be fun. I mean, look at this!




Guy uses his horns as a rocking chair. Well, he can pluck out his horns and fit other ones too, though. Like freaking helicopter ones.


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## Pipistrele (Jun 22, 2017)

When it's crippling to the character, I'll say. Wings and horns and bells and whistles are fine as long as they're possible to theoretically live with, but when you're going into territory of "How the hell this abomination even operates in real world" (stuff like claw hands or wings two times bigger than the char itself), you know you need to slow down a little.


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## MsRavage (Jun 22, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> When you start hitting 10+ different colours on ONE character and a bazillion jewelry and/or accessories you're entering completely impractical designs. Should look up the term "sparke dog". You'll be surprised.
> 
> I am not an artist myself, but I like making the character's outside look more simplistic, whereas the characters' background/backstory and personality is abundant. Makes it a hell'uva lot easier on the artist.


OH MAN the sparkle dogs are not something i've seen before...and after looking at them....WHOA


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## ellaerna (Jun 22, 2017)

Sivath said:


> Ahahahaha!! Oh, horns _to_ ankles xD
> Okay, I thought it was horns on ankles.
> But, that could be fun. I mean, look at this!
> 
> ...


I freakin' love that movie and that scene! It's what gave me the idea in the first place!
"An avalanche is coming and I do not feel prepared..." Haha!


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## Troj (Jun 22, 2017)

Also, if you want a fursuit someday, you should probably ask yourself what you're willing to schlep around in for more than five minutes.


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## ellaerna (Jun 23, 2017)

Troj said:


> Also, if you want a fursuit someday, you should probably ask yourself what you're willing to schlep around in for more than five minutes.


I'm not a fursuiter, so that won't be a problem for me, but it is a valid concern to consider with these things.


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## ellaerna (Jun 23, 2017)

Pipistrele said:


> When it's crippling to the character, I'll say. Wings and horns and bells and whistles are fine as long as they're possible to theoretically live with, but when you're going into territory of "How the hell this abomination even operates in real world" (stuff like claw hands or wings two times bigger than the char itself), you know you need to slow down a little.


I'm sure people with fake nails would object to the claw hands statement. 




Kim K sees your claw hands and raises you pierced nails.


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## MsRavage (Jun 23, 2017)

you know what...you let your creative self fly....you don't have to abide by any rules and literally you can pack on 20 wings, horns everywhere and make your character a rainbow...you be you and do what makes you happy
also....those pierced nails....lol


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## Epiale (Jun 23, 2017)

Honestly just have fun. If you wanna mess around with aesthetics go for it, it's not exactly like most furry art is hyper-realistic to begin with. Sure not everyone is going to love it, but who cares, it's art, that's kind of the nature of the beast, and there will always be other people who adore what you do.

And to throw out my two cents, giant horns sounds fun as heck to draw.


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## ellaerna (Jun 23, 2017)

MsRavage said:


> you don't have to abide by any rules and literally you can pack on 20 wings, horns everywhere and make your character a rainbow


I'm pretty sure my friend had a character who looked like that in a game of Black Crusade. He kept getting more and more mutations. 



Epiale said:


> Honestly just have fun. If you wanna mess around with aesthetics go for it, it's not exactly like most furry art is hyper-realistic to begin with. Sure not everyone is going to love it, but who cares, it's art, that's kind of the nature of the beast, and there will always be other people who adore what you do.
> 
> And to throw out my two cents, giant horns sounds fun as heck to draw.


Thanks! 
I like all your points. It's how I basically think about it. Everyone can do what they want, and some people will love it and some people won't. There's no pleasing everyone, so you might was well do something you find pleasing. 
Still, I wanted to see what the discussion would be like around this, particularly with the level of hatred people have for sparkledogs.


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## Tecwyn (Jun 23, 2017)

Grand designs are by themselves not a problem. The important part is how they aestethically combine. Colors need to work together but never scream at the eyes so to speak.
As for adding more and stranger details, while i'm personally one for simplicity, there is really no reason not to go all out, depending on your ideas.
If you just want to make a pretty picture, go with whatever you feel like I think. However, if you want to do more with the depicted character, try imagining how he/she/it/bigMac got to that point with those attributes.
How would one live with extremely long horns, is it plausible to go about day to day activities for example. I think, that if you can answer that in a satisfactory manner, then the design works, however strange or different it may be.

That being said, I have like zero experience with designs and thoughts like that, I mostly like taking something simple and imagine how I can make that awesome by itself....no luck so far ^^

The only advice I can 100% give: Do whatever you think works, and if the results are not to your liking, at least you have new knowledge and maybe even inspiration


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## dogryme6 (Jul 6, 2017)

If you desire such exaggerated designs for characters, I'd say go for it. Practicality doesn't need to be a big part of design.
But If you plan on writing a story or building a fursuit around it (Even though you said you weren't going to make it a fursuit) You may have a few issues. Don't be surprised if it takes an excruciatingly long time to get anywhere, be it by getting their horns caught on things or just not being able to go as fast as if they had normal functionality to things like wings or fins.
If you want a really fast answer to the question, ask your characters if they'd want to live with it.


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## CrazyDragon (Jul 7, 2017)

I think it's fun to push attributes for aesthetically pleasing art, but personally i'm more into the functional character if they're going to be interacting with others/have a life... unless it's a god, or ghost-like character who wouldn't really be affected.
Your example looks like it would be really beautiful, but then there are the other examples people are into like gore characters (when their limbs are sliced) or unrealistically obese.
Characters with overexaggerated qualities are all over the place!


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## CrazyDragon (Jul 7, 2017)

ellaerna said:


> I'm sure people with fake nails would object to the claw hands statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have never seen that before...


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## ellaerna (Jul 7, 2017)

Tecwyn said:


> If you just want to make a pretty picture, go with whatever you feel like I think. However, if you want to do more with the depicted character, try imagining how he/she/it/bigMac got to that point with those attributes.
> How would one live with extremely long horns, is it plausible to go about day to day activities for example. I think, that if you can answer that in a satisfactory manner, then the design works, however strange or different it may be.
> 
> The only advice I can 100% give: Do whatever you think works, and if the results are not to your liking, at least you have new knowledge and maybe even inspiration


I would at least try to come up with a why, if not a how. For instance my bat example might have been in an accident that ruined her wings so she copes by covering up the damage with something
beautiful, not unlike people who cover mastectomy scars with tattoos. 
It would end up being a story based on a design rather than a design based on story, but it could work. 
And I do think the general consensus is just "do what you want" which is nice. 



dogryme6 said:


> If you want a really fast answer to the question, ask your characters if they'd want to live with it


I kind of address that above, but yeah. If I or anyone else wants to do something wild and crazy with our designs, we need to think about what that means for our character's quality of life



CrazyDragon said:


> Your example looks like it would be really beautiful, but then there are the other examples people are into like gore characters (when their limbs are sliced) or unrealistically obese.


I hadn't thought about that, but you are right that there are already some pretty exaggerated characters out there. Guess I shouldn't have overlooked the kinky stuff when considering this.


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## LumeKat (Jul 7, 2017)

Nothing wrong with artistic exaggeration. To me it gets out of control when I can't focus on what's going on in the picture because all I can think is "what the hell is that". That's a first impression hardly anyone is looking for ;p


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## CrazyDragon (Jul 7, 2017)

ellaerna said:


> I hadn't thought about that, but you are right that there are already some pretty exaggerated characters out there. Guess I shouldn't have overlooked the kinky stuff when considering this.



I hadn't thought of it either until you brought it up!


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## BloodyBonez87 (Jul 14, 2017)

Even lace wings could potentially fly as long as the character is light enough and there is some sort of membrane filling the gaps. you know there is a type of insect called the "lace-wing fly" because of how delicate their wings are and the fact that they look like lace. As for literal cloth lace, that would be unlikely unless it's a man-made automaton or clockwork type of thing. And of course you can justify basically anything in a fantasy setting by just saying "It's magic! I ain't gotta explain d*ck"


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## ellaerna (Jul 14, 2017)

BloodyBonez87 said:


> you know there is a type of insect called the "lace-wing fly" because of how delicate their wings are and the fact that they look like lace.


You learn something new everyday


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## KiokuChan (Jul 30, 2017)

I think what matters is what feels nice/meaningful to you or what you enjoy making/drawing. If you ware trying to come up with an aesthetic representation of a concept go ahead and do weird/creative/physically impossible things.

You know Star Wars knew outright that their style of star ship fights was entirely impossible and impractical when they made it but they chose that style because they wanted they wanted it to feel like a space western almost. That was a stylistic decision they made. 

That's part of the reason for stylized animation as well. It's a way of getting across things you'd want to portray that you couldn't in the real world.. and I think making connects or seeing how one concept can be translate into another setting/theme/category is really neat and exciting. I think with drawing impractical things that's part of what you are doing. Personally I love highly stylized and unrealistic approaches. forums.furaffinity.net: Free Art: - Very stylized drawings


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## snowyfursuitlover (Jul 30, 2017)

some colors and dramatic features are good... sparkle dogs which are over the top


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## wolflynxrae (Aug 15, 2017)

Troj said:


> Also, if you want a fursuit someday, you should probably ask yourself what you're willing to schlep around in for more than five minutes.


Exactly why I don't have a bunny as my fursona anymore. I liked to draw them with hanging ears, and... well, my bunsona had hers flop to her knees. I loved her design and name, but sometimes too much is too much.


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## MAN_BURD (Aug 15, 2017)

wolflynxrae said:


> Exactly why I don't have a bunny as my fursona anymore. I liked to draw them with hanging ears, and... well, my bunsona had hers flop to her knees. I loved her design and name, but sometimes too much is too much.



I don't understand how that would be too much of a design problem. Are you afraid of the ears getting caught in something?


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## wolflynxrae (Aug 16, 2017)

MAN_BURD said:


> I don't understand how that would be too much of a design problem. Are you afraid of the ears getting caught in something?


My ears were very very fluffy. Not the kind that is flimsy. I'm worried it would be tiring to keep them on, as well as expensive, and would.. well yeah, get in the general way.


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## Zehlua (Jan 30, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> So here is an_ absolutely beautiful _rendition of what I was thinking about that I whipped up in MSPaint 2 sec ago (the brown line is the horn):
> View attachment 19665
> Poor thing wouldn't be able to sit down.



Omg, what if the horns make the character into a living rocking chair? LMAO


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## Zehlua (Jan 30, 2018)

Sivath said:


> Ahahahaha!! Oh, horns _to_ ankles xD
> Okay, I thought it was horns on ankles.
> But, that could be fun. I mean, look at this!
> 
> ...


Bless this character!!! Where is he from?


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## Zehlua (Jan 30, 2018)

Pipistrele said:


> When it's crippling to the character, I'll say. Wings and horns and bells and whistles are fine as long as they're possible to theoretically live with, but when you're going into territory of "How the hell this abomination even operates in real world" (stuff like claw hands or wings two times bigger than the char itself), you know you need to slow down a little.


IDK m8, the therizinosaur apparently existed with giant-ass claws


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## Zehlua (Jan 30, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> I'm sure people with fake nails would object to the claw hands statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh GOD, not these!!!! These are almost WORSE than hair nails!!! AAGGGHHHHHH *fashion police sirens blaring!*


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Jan 30, 2018)

Considering I would like to actually draw my character, or have them drawn by someone else, I'm not going to cover it in stupid unnecessary body parts or giant accessories.
I'm also a realism purist, for the most part. Can't stand impossible hybrids like wolves with bat wings and such, I think they're way too overdone.


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## ellaerna (Jan 30, 2018)

Zehlua said:


> Bless this character!!! Where is he from?


The movie Hoodwinked!


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## Troj (Jan 30, 2018)

Japeth is the best part of Hoodwinked.


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## Majesty Sidus (Jan 30, 2018)

Rawr what up?


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## Sagt (Jan 30, 2018)

(I've seen that film so many times, they used to play it aallllllll the time on Cartoon Network. It's a shame about the sequel.)

Anyways, as for the topic, my personal preference is simple designs. Complicated colouring and features can be pretty ugly and distracting if not done tastefully, in my opinion.


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## ellaerna (Jan 31, 2018)

Shane McNair said:


> Well what is "unique"? I really think a lot of people are missing the mark on "uniqueness" and what it is. I've mentioned this in past threads here, and sometimes I almost feel like I should post my own thread to explain my take on it. It can only be a matter of how a character looks physically to a certain limited extent. Beyond that, then you start overdoing it and getting into the realm of absurdity. And all of that stuff should be secondary anyway. I made my characters reflective of a _theme_, and a time and place in history with a bit of a science fiction twist. This is the basis of what I think makes them look interesting and unique, conceptually.
> 
> For example, my 'sona Shane's look is a combination of both form _and_ function. I wanted him to be representative of a concept in historical fiction. First and foremost, he's sort of a dieselpunk-ish character. In a nutshell, he's a fighter pilot who battles air pirates in a story set in South America and the Caribbean during the 1930s. He was inspired largely by the heroes of action/adventure pulp comics and adventure films of that time. You could think of him as a bit of an Indiana Jones or Rick O'Connell type who flies fighter planes, and who ends up being recruited for clandestine espionage work by the Office of Naval Intelligence. He finds himself in a lot of gunfights and chases and things like that.
> 
> ...


I think your two cents ended up being more like a dollar and a half. 

Absurdity was kind of the point. I agree that for characters, particularly ones you plan to write about and build a world around, there's only so far you should go and it should be in service to a theme or concept. A character is more than just their looks and practicality can be a lot more meaningful than frivolous trappings. 

But at the time I posted this, that is what my eye was drawn to. Visually, I liked the idea of exaggerated features and intricate details. Still do, somewhat. I didn't have anything in mind for such creations more than just having something nice to look at and the art potential. Which I think is a fine a thing as any. 

This thread was about how far you would go, not how far you should go. And that's really just a matter of personal preference. 

As an aside though, I have to ask, are there horse people in your story? Because if so, having horse hide leather clothing becomes a lot more interesting than just aesthetics.


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## ChapterAquila92 (Feb 4, 2018)

A nice little article had this to say:


			
				Springhole said:
			
		

> *Remember that more complicated design does not mean better design.*
> 
> Some people try to make their characters more unique and distinctive by adding in extra frills, details, and dinglybobs.
> 
> ...


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## TheRabbitFollower (Feb 8, 2018)

When all is said and done, if it’s your character, you can design them however you want. Create something that appeals to you, and don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise.

The only time when over the top designs become an issue is if and when you want to turn these designs into fursuits.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 8, 2018)

I will readily admit some aspects of my malesona are based on "awesome" rather than "practical". His pseudo-wings have no practical function. They're just two sets of feathers on his back. This is basically because I like the aesthetics of wings but hate wing anatomy. So he has "wings" that have very little to do with wing anatomy. They're just adornments. 



ellaerna said:


> It would end up being a story based on a design rather than a design based on story, but it could work.


If you like a design, coming up with a backstory to justify it isn't a bad thing. You're finding a way to make something impractical plausible. 



Pipistrele said:


> When it's crippling to the character, I'll say. Wings and horns and bells and whistles are fine as long as they're possible to theoretically live with, but when you're going into territory of "How the hell this abomination even operates in real world" (stuff like claw hands or wings two times bigger than the char itself), you know you need to slow down a little.


I can't recall where it was he said he'd seen it, but husband, boyfriend and I were talking about things like this the other day. One of them mentioned a canon where some people get super-impractical body mods for either religious or combat reasons. (Discussion started over the prospect of equipping a Rimworld character with salvaged mechanoid blades for hands.) And in that canon, there was a job that was basically "take care of this person who due to their augments is no longer capable of these specific everyday tasks". That can make for a great interpersonal dynamic - one character might have something that makes them a badass fighter, and they get someone who was picked on offering to do things for them they no longer can do themselves in exchange for protection. Symbiotic relationship.


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## Skakuna (Feb 8, 2018)

Yeah, finding out your sona would make a difficoult to maintain fursuit is frustrating... one of my sonas has white paws. White gets VERY dirty very fast. Another one has pretty long and fat tail, so I can already imagine knocking off everyone and everything with every turn I make. That is why another of my sonas has TINY wings since the begining. To make it simplier when I make fursuit of her.
But then again, she has a freakingly long tail XD
Oh, and another one wears an eyepatch. With reduced sighs already... tht was a bad design choice, having just one eye left, but I regret nothing XD

In fact, only my main sona is pretty maitainable, but you know... people are scared of spiders, so my face will probably scare some peeps


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## ellaerna (Feb 8, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> I can't recall where it was he said he'd seen it, but husband, boyfriend and I were talking about things like this the other day. One of them mentioned a canon where some people get super-impractical body mods for either religious or combat reasons. (Discussion started over the prospect of equipping a Rimworld character with salvaged mechanoid blades for hands.) And in that canon, there was a job that was basically "take care of this person who due to their augments is no longer capable of these specific everyday tasks". That can make for a great interpersonal dynamic - one character might have something that makes them a badass fighter, and they get someone who was picked on offering to do things for them they no longer can do themselves in exchange for protection. Symbiotic relationship.


Bit different, but this concept reminds me a lot of a shabbos goy. Depending on how strictly they observe the Sabbath, Jews are not allowed to do certain types of work on that day. So a shabbos goy is a non-Jewish person who does those jobs for them.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 8, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> Bit different, but this concept reminds me a lot of a shabbos goy. Depending on how strictly they observe the Sabbath, Jews are not allowed to do certain types of work on that day. So a shabbos goy is a non-Jewish person who does those jobs for them.


That's an interesting cultural reference that could be built into such a partnership! History is full of similar things; I know in Sweden, back when, butchering horses was seen as a filthy task, so it was usually pawned off on traveling romani. (Who were then seen as filthy because they butchered horses - not a very proud moment in our history.) Hell, in contemporary culture, from what I understand, surgeons who've scrubbed in have nurses adjust their glasses or scratch their nose or whatever in the OR so they don't contaminate their hands.



Skakuna said:


> In fact, only my main sona is pretty maitainable, but you know... people are scared of spiders, so my face will probably scare some peeps


For what it's worth, I'm terrified of spiders and I find your sona adorable. For me what reads as "spider, scary!" is not the face, but the legs, anyway. Your character's face is more fuzzy and friendly, so if you had a suit that maintained that tooniness, I think it'd probably be fine.


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## Skakuna (Feb 8, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> That's an interesting cultural reference that could be built into such a partnership! History is full of similar things; I know in Sweden, back when, butchering horses was seen as a filthy task, so it was usually pawned off on traveling romani. (Who were then seen as filthy because they butchered horses - not a very proud moment in our history.) Hell, in contemporary culture, from what I understand, surgeons who've scrubbed in have nurses adjust their glasses or scratch their nose or whatever in the OR so they don't contaminate their hands.
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I'm terrified of spiders and I find your sona adorable. For me what reads as "spider, scary!" is not the face, but the legs, anyway. Your character's face is more fuzzy and friendly, so if you had a suit that maintained that tooniness, I think it'd probably be fine.



Aw, thank you :3 my sona doesn't have spider legs, so I guess it wouldn't be so bad for you


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## KiokuChan (Feb 9, 2018)

Skakuna said:


> In fact, only my main sona is pretty maitainable, but you know... people are scared of spiders, so my face will probably scare some peeps


 If you like them it doesn't matter. I personally love spiders and other arachnids. I love insects. I think they are very cool. Also you are adorable : ) ^_^ What is a pargia if I may ask. Also what are the ears and horns from? Is it a mixed species?


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## Skakuna (Feb 9, 2018)

KiokuChan said:


> If you like them it doesn't matter. I personally love spiders and other arachnids. I love insects. I think they are very cool. Also you are adorable : ) ^_^ What is a pargia if I may ask. Also what are the ears and horns from? Is it a mixed species?



Pargia is a name of my species  I came out with the name recently, since I was redesigning it lately. That is the full image:
www.furaffinity.net: Pargia by Skakuna
And we can say it's a mixed species, since I was inspired by corgi dogs and jumping spiders while creating it. Antlers just fitted in there, before in their place there was a third pair of eyes.


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## KiokuChan (Feb 9, 2018)

Cool! It looks very nice : )


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## Skakuna (Feb 9, 2018)

KiokuChan said:


> Cool! It looks very nice : )


Thank you ^^ and thanks for the fav btw xD


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## Inimicality (Feb 21, 2018)

For my own fursona, I kept myself pretty tightly to the bounds of believablity (or insomuch as an anthro lynx can be believable).  But honestly?  If you like lace wings or horns that go to the ankles, then go for it.  Especially if you're not planning on making a fursuit.  You owe no one an explanation or apology for how your fursona looks.

Life is too short and stressful to live it for someone else's benefit, someone who may never have that much of an impact on your life.  So what if some people in the fandom don't like your fursona and think it's "too much" because at the end of the day, we're all freaks who dig anthro animals (maybe a little too much, even).  Have those lace bat wings, have the ears that go to the knees, enjoy the multiple sets of wings or tails, or the neon, rainbow, or neon rainbow colors in fur and skin.  Have 8000 accessories that might not make sense to others or are just there to look cool.  You wanna put bat wings on a wolf, put bat wings on a wolf.

At the heart of this fandom is creativity (and the enjoyment of anthropomorphic animals).  Embrace it.  Just because some person who you'll likely only know as an avatar and text on a website doesn't like your design doesn't mean you should bow to their whim.  Enjoy yourself.  It harms no one.

No, really, having a complex or impractical character harms no one, unless you're in a fursuit, then just be careful.  And cons may have restrictions on your fursuit, because I did go to one where someone was cosplaying a Final Fantasy monster and had to remove part of their costume.  Just follow the rules, be aware of your surrounds and safety.

And for the record, I absolutely put myself in the same category as a freak who digs anthro animals a little too much.

I'm sorry, but I'm really passionate about people living their life the way that makes them happy, so long as it harms no one.  It's far more an excited ramble than an angry rant, I assure you.


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## Ciderfine (Feb 21, 2018)

If it looks stupid, cringy and not normal then it impractical. If irl animals dont have it, then dont add it.


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## ellaerna (Feb 21, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> If it looks stupid, cringy and not normal then it impractical. If irl animals dont have it, then dont add it.


So no bipedal legs, opposable thumbs,  mouths capable of human speech, or hair?


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## defunct (Feb 21, 2018)

I think aesthetics should generally be a more clothing/personality thing but that's just me. I usually find things like misplaced wings or horns or bright colors to be a bit distasteful, with a few exceptions


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## ellaerna (Feb 21, 2018)

Inimicality said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm really passionate about people living their life the way that makes them happy, so long as it harms no one. It's far more an excited ramble than an angry rant, I assure you


No need to apologize! This was just a silly little thread but I'm glad that it sparked such a impassioned response from someone.


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## Ciderfine (Feb 21, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> So no bipedal legs, opposable thumbs,  mouths capable of human speech, or hair?


Yep, beats having 400 rainbow colored hyper genital dogs or dragons


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## Massan Otter (Feb 21, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Yep, beats having 400 rainbow colored hyper genital dogs or dragons



Looking through your posts, it's easy to build up a picture of what you dislike in other peoples fursonas.  But you leave very few clues as to what you do approve of.  
Can you show an example, just one, of a fursona that you consider to be well thought-out and well excecuted that you straightforwardly appreciate?


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## Ciderfine (Feb 21, 2018)

Massan Otter said:


> Looking through your posts, it's easy to build up a picture of what you dislike in other peoples fursonas.  But you leave very few clues as to what you do approve of.
> Can you show an example, just one, of a fursona that you consider to be well thought-out and well excecuted that you straightforwardly appreciate?



https://www.furaffinity.net/view/19851935/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23671012/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/22769172/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23745207/

Skabooskie, done, and one is never enough for an accurate baseline.


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## Casey Fluffbat (Feb 21, 2018)

Oh man, this is my favorite topic in the fandom. I go into browse and just tear through character designs without remorse (I'm not a rogue comment critic, FYI ) . The easiest way to make a character dysfunctional is to base it's design around details first. People lose perspective on how ridiculous or impractical a character looks when they base it around a desired feature.


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## Massan Otter (Feb 21, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/19851935/
> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23671012/
> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/22769172/
> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23745207/
> ...



Ok, I think I can see a little of what you go for there.  Most of them break the rules you laid down in post #54, but we can cheerfully gloss over that.  
Now why not do that more often?  People are much more likely to engage positively with your posts if you talk about what you do like, rather than just shooting down what you consider bad.


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## ellaerna (Feb 21, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/19851935/
> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23671012/
> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/22769172/
> https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23745207/
> ...


*Gasp!*
That's a lot of hair there, sir.
And a.. kangaroo deer? Those don't exist!
Pink spots on a black panther?! Blasphemy!
Earrings on a dog? Well I never!
And forward facing eyes on a porcupine? A crime against nature!


I'm just giving you shit. Those are nice designs!


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## Ciderfine (Feb 21, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> *Gasp!*
> That's a lot of hair there, sir.
> And a.. kangaroo deer? Those don't exist!
> Pink spots on a black panther?! Blasphemy!
> ...



I know, I was being sarcastic when I states the "new rules" in what I said above.


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## Ciderfine (Feb 21, 2018)

Massan Otter said:


> Ok, I think I can see a little of what you go for there.  Most of them break the rules you laid down in post #54, but we can cheerfully gloss over that.
> Now why not do that more often?  People are much more likely to engage positively with your posts if you talk about what you do like, rather than just shooting down what you consider bad.



I hope you realize that was sarcasm x2.

Now, you dont need to give me the rules on what "people like". This aint the 40's anymore, the fact that you have to state what you prefer (only the good)  and shun anything on the bad shows how much ego the the fandom has places into you about only hearing the magic, the good. Thats not okay psychology that you assume Im here to have people positively interact with me. 

Im just here to interact, not for any side of karma on that.


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

No I get it, the negativity and the griping are your lifeblood.  You like to put things down so that you can flatter yourself that you're above it all.  At least you're upfront about it...


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## defunct (Feb 22, 2018)

Massan Otter said:


> No I get it, the negativity and the griping are your lifeblood.  You like to put things down so that you can flatter yourself that you're above it all.  At least you're upfront about it...


that was kind of a counterintuitive thing to say my dude


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

Nastala said:


> that was kind of a counterintuitive thing to say my dude



Why so?  Seems fairly clear to me (referring to Ciderfine's post).


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## defunct (Feb 22, 2018)

"*No I get it, the negativity and the griping are your lifeblood*. *You like to put things down* so that you can flatter yourself that you're above it all. At least you're upfront about it..."
You're complaining about negativity, meanwhile speaking as if you're looking for someone to speak down to. You asked CiderFine what his/her opinion was, in an opinion thread, and then referred to it as if he/she was whining and being needlessly negative. It seems like you're just angry about something, definitely not this. Don't be like that, there's more than enough passive-aggressive sarcasm on this forum. People are much more likely to engage positively with your posts if you talk about what you do like, rather than just shooting down what you consider bad.


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

Nastala said:


> "*No I get it, the negativity and the griping are your lifeblood*. *You like to put things down* so that you can flatter yourself that you're above it all. At least you're upfront about it..."
> You're complaining about negativity, meanwhile speaking as if you're looking for someone to speak down to. You asked CiderFine what his/her opinion was, in an opinion thread, and then referred to it as if he/she was whining and being needlessly negative. It seems like you're just angry about something, definitely not this. Don't be like that, there's more than enough passive-aggressive sarcasm on this forum. People are much more likely to engage positively with your posts if you talk about what you do like, rather than just shooting down what you consider bad.



If you were to take post #60 in isolation without having seen any other of their posts, this would make sense.  But given the wider pattern of their posts, I think I'm not far off the mark in assessing their motivation as I have.  
There is no anger here; if anything I'm trying to find a way to engage with people I would otherwise ignore as incompatible.  I don't think I have a problem with finding positive interactions myself, but Ciderfine clearly states they are not looking for those.


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## defunct (Feb 22, 2018)

did you really need to say that though? it wasn't warranted


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

Nastala said:


> did you really need to say that though? it wasn't warranted



It could come across as a little harsh, I accept that.  But where can you go with someone who is not looking for positive interactions?


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## defunct (Feb 22, 2018)

telling someone how much you dislike them sure isn't the way to go


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 22, 2018)

I think there's a degree where a boundary needs to be drawn between impractical, impossible, and downright absurd.  I'm no artist but I'm going to speak how I would manage such things.

Impracticalities are fine, even in excess, as long as it isn't so upfront and noticeably impractical.  The best impracticalities come when the design of the character is done well enough where people don't immediately think about the impracticalities.  KiokuChan referenced Star Wars as an example of impractical design in spaceships.  I agree; those designs once scrutinized are very impractical.  But the key there is that when you're watching the movie, you don't really think about the impracticalities of the Millennium Falcon or TIE Fighters.  The aesthetics are pleasing enough and entertaining enough where most don't immediately start questioning how the fuck that thing flies.

The Bat with lace wings is a good example of an aesthetic choice that doesn't immediately begin raising questions.  Mainly because we as humans aren't familiar in general with how wings work or if such wings would be practical.  However, the goat with horns to her ankles may raise more questions from the average viewer, because humans walk, and we would begin to ask questions like "how the goat is supposed to even walk?".  Thus that may turn people off to the character if that isn't toned down.

Impossibilities are more upfront, but they're managed in such a way that makes it so that it is of no cost of enjoyment.  We understand floating rocks are impossible but we accept it in all sorts of media from Avatar to Warcraft.  We know magic is impossible but we accept it in fantasy all the time.  Fantasy is the perfect example of having impossibilities but managing it so that it is still immersive.  Fantasy has its own problem with practicalities, particularly with weapons, Skallagrim can tell you more about that:






So having impossibilities doesn't necessarily mean you have impracticalities.

Then, there's absurdities.  Absurdities are just that; absurd.  The flaws are so obvious, impractical, and impossible, that you can't take it seriously except as a parody piece.  I know hyperinflation is technically a fetish but that's a good example of absurdity.  Cartoony.  Now, cartoons can sometimes get away with absurdities, but most of the time those absurdities are played as humorous or as parody, not as legitimate aesthetic choices.  So unless you're making a parody or joke, avoid absurdities.


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

Nastala said:


> telling someone how much you dislike them sure isn't the way to go



I don't consider that I expressed any dislike of the person, just their posting behaviours.  I can either try to find a way to engage with someone or ignore them.  I'm experimenting with the former because the latter causes its own tensions.


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## defunct (Feb 22, 2018)

shhh just be nice it's not complicated


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

Nastala said:


> shhh just be nice it's not complicated



Generally I'd agree, but this exchange did start with me trying to encourage somebody to "be nice", which was construed as talking down to them!  I do try, but sometimes it's just not happening!
I think we're reaching the point where this discussion gets circular...


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## backpawscratcher (Feb 22, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> I hope you realize that was sarcasm x2.
> 
> Now, you dont need to give me the rules on what "people like". This aint the 40's anymore, the fact that you have to state what you prefer (only the good)  and shun anything on the bad shows how much ego the the fandom has places into you about only hearing the magic, the good. Thats not okay psychology that you assume Im here to have people positively interact with me.
> 
> Im just here to interact, not for any side of karma on that.


f.hug @Ciderfine 

It’ll all be OK you know.  Really it will.


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## Ciderfine (Feb 22, 2018)

Massan Otter said:


> No I get it, the negativity and the griping are your lifeblood.  You like to put things down so that you can flatter yourself that you're above it all.  At least you're upfront about it...



Actually you don't, negative things are important for basic improvement. When furries only talk about the good they remove the room for improvement by all allowing a bad idea daydream to grow. 

Now am I above bad designs and concepts? Yes, art is about maturity, integrity and skill and limitations. So far in the art section of these forums I've seen complete lack of everything to only personal fetish daydreams being the base norm.  There's art, and then there weeaboo narcissism.


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## Ciderfine (Feb 22, 2018)

backpawscratcher said:


> f.hug @Ciderfine
> 
> It’ll all be OK you know.  Really it will.



Exactly what are you trying to say? Really its getting harder and harder to understand what your even trying to say.


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Actually you don't, negative things are important for basic improvement. When furries only talk about the good they remove the room for improvement by all allowing a bad idea daydream to grow.
> 
> Now am I above bad designs and concepts? Yes, art is about maturity, integrity and skill and limitations. So far in the art section of these forums I've seen complete lack of everything to only personal fetish daydreams being the base norm.  There's art, and then there weeaboo narcissism.



You have failed to comprehend my posts on the most fundamental level.  I have never said that there should be no negativity or that people should "only talk about the good".  If you only offer advice on what not to do, the only logical reponse to that is either to reject your advice or to do nothing.  Anyone who wishes to portray themselves as some sort of mentor needs to discuss both the good and the bad.  Balance is required, and I'm seeing precious little of it.


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## backpawscratcher (Feb 22, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Exactly what are you trying to say? Really its getting harder and harder to understand what your even trying to say.


*hugs*


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## Skakuna (Feb 22, 2018)

Another trait that can be impractical: patterns. It's impractical for different reasons thou: when you have very difficoult patterns on your sona, then drawing gets harder because you should be accurate with drawing them right. Not mentioning if you want to make or commision a fursuit - find patience/maker with patience to sew all those on the suit! Or gradients, those are also hard. I know you or your maker can airbrush those, but if you are the maker and have no experience then it's horrible to make. And if you commision it, your price soars through the sky. Plus, cleaning can make the patterns go away with the water, even if you just use a wet sponge.


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## ellaerna (Feb 22, 2018)

Skakuna said:


> Another trait that can be impractical: patterns. It's impractical for different reasons thou: when you have very difficoult patterns on your sona, then drawing gets harder because you should be accurate with drawing them right. Not mentioning if you want to make or commision a fursuit - find patience/maker with patience to sew all those on the suit! Or gradients, those are also hard. I know you or your maker can airbrush those, but if you are the maker and have no experience then it's horrible to make. And if you commision it, your price soars through the sky. Plus, cleaning can make the patterns go away with the water, even if you just use a wet sponge.


I've always fancied the idea of fractal patterning, but ultimately shied away from it for this reason. Though I don't and will never fursuit, so it's more for artists than makers.



Also, I would appreciate it if all y'all could stop with this negativity talk. It's off topic and bringing the mood down on here. K thanks.


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## Massan Otter (Feb 22, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> Also, I would appreciate it if all y'all could stop with this negativity talk. It's off topic and bringing the mood down on here. K thanks.



Sorry about that, I'll bow out on that topic at this point.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 22, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> So here is an_ absolutely beautiful _rendition of what I was thinking about that I whipped up in MSPaint 2 sec ago (the brown line is the horn):
> View attachment 19665
> Poor thing wouldn't be able to sit down.



Yeah that design boarders on absurdity.  Unless it's meant to be a joke, that level of impracticality is just distracting.  It doesn't add to the character it actually could detract from it if you want it to be taken seriously even a bit.


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## ellaerna (Feb 22, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Yeah that design boarders on absurdity.  Unless it's meant to be a joke, that level of impracticality is just distracting.  It doesn't add to the character it actually could detract from it if you want it to be taken seriously even a bit.


I'm fully aware of how silly the whole thing is.


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## ResolutionBlaze (Feb 22, 2018)

ellaerna said:


> I'm fully aware of how silly the whole thing is.



Then if that's the goal, you're good.  Go haywire.


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## Inimicality (Feb 23, 2018)

In visual media - TV shows, movies, video games, comics, etc - it's important for the character design to tell us about the character.  Essentially, to be a story in and of itself, so that the audience isn't bogged down by exposition.  The character's appearance needs to, at least a little, take the place of a biography or profile.  Each detail needs to have a reason for existing beyond simply "looking cool" - unless that character is the type to want to look cool, in which case that does still tell us a story.  This is where you need to be on the lookout for unnecessary details or impractical designs unless it is important to the character and adds to them in a significant way.

Lace bat wings do tell a story.  Organic wings altered to look like lace (as opposed to actual lace) tells me that the character wants to stand out and will risk mobility to do so.  They enjoy body modification, but still want to be seen as pretty or feminine.  If the character can still fly, then it means that they put for an effort to do so, despite the modifications to their wings.  If they cannot, was this a deliberate choice of the character (sacrificing their mobility for aesthetic reasons) or the result of a tragedy their attempting to own (as do many people with regards to tattoos or prosthesis).  However one goes with it, this design choice does open up dialogue between the audience and the character, and as we see more of the character and their interactions with others, we see more of their personal story unfold.

Given that most of us aren't trying to break into furry webcomics, however, we aren't so bound to character design.  We can still have details for the sake of being cool.  Like scythes.  Barring war scythes meant for combat, traditional scythes are incredibly impractical weapons.  But they look cool as hell, though, right?  Especially given the ties to the grim reaper, the use of a scythe can be very visceral.

Oversized features (without getting into fetish) can be used to highly certain aspects of a character.  Large, floppy bunny ears, impractically long horns, big eyes - all of these can be used to emphasize certain aspects of your character.  Even brightly colored and/or multi-colored patterns.  If you plan to have a fursuit made or make one, you may want to consider the ease of movement and restrictions in the places you want to visit, but that's still fairly subjective.

To summarize:  Details of your character tell a story and the design is a shorthand profile of your character/fursona.  If you're concerned with how people respond and/or interact with your character/fursona, be aware of the design choices and ensure that they are able to clearly tell the audience what you want.  However, none of this should stop you from doing what you want and having fun, because art is subjective and you shouldn't be shackled to the opinions of others.


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