# Angel Dragon "rules"?



## rioichi4 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hello,
Does anyone know what the rules are for creating an Angel Dragon? Is there a link somewhere I'm missing? Been all over Ino's FA and website and whatnot and so far all I can find is no schnozz rings and something about not being able to (or maybe not?) name your Angel Dragon after an object, like Telephone or Radio. Do I just draw one up and send it to Ino for approval? I don't wanna bug her, or put my time into something that's just going to get rejected.


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## Maugryph (Feb 19, 2015)

How would we know? Go ask telephone directly.


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## mcjoel (Feb 19, 2015)

Angel dragon's are for special snowflakes who are not awesome enough to be of the fire breathing variety.


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## GarthTheWereWolf (Feb 19, 2015)

Angels.

_Mmm._ Angels are a little like Gods, I think. That sour self-righteousness that sticks in the teeth like fine bones. I can only imagine it to be 10x worse with dragon thrown into the mix...


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## Maugryph (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm so tired of hearing about angel dragons


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## Zeitzbach (Feb 19, 2015)

Just make one right away and when asked, just say

"Never heard of that bitch before"


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## jorinda (Feb 19, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> I'm so tired of hearing about angle dragons



Someone should make a geometrical dragon thingy and call it the Angle Dragon.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Feb 19, 2015)

Why the semprini would there be rules for creating angelic dragons?


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## -Sliqq- (Feb 19, 2015)

Sorry OP but you opened up a can of _Telephones_


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## Maugryph (Feb 19, 2015)

Telephones are pretty worm like..


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## Keeroh (Feb 19, 2015)

There are no rules, it's not like sergals where there's a definition of them. Just go pupilless floofy dragons with tiny wings and patterned fur and toothless-like-tail.
Bam. 
angull dwaggon.


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## Zenia (Feb 19, 2015)

jorinda said:


> Someone should make a geometrical dragon thingy and call it the Angle Dragon.


Like this guy? http://i.imgur.com/IDb18FM.jpg


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## Ozriel (Feb 19, 2015)

See if the user has any rules for it.
And I am getting tired of hearing about Angel Dragons. And I just keep imagining  This dragon From Eragon instead...


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## Taralack (Feb 19, 2015)

Zenia said:


> Like this guy? http://i.imgur.com/IDb18FM.jpg



TROGDORRRRR


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## -Sliqq- (Feb 19, 2015)

Taralack said:


> TROGDORRRRR


It seems like he didn't forget leg day this time.


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## Volkodav (Feb 19, 2015)

You can make any species or combination of species and name them whatever the fuck you like
If someone harasses you about this, report them to the staff. End of story.
Do not back down from the character police.


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## Muln (Feb 19, 2015)

Isn't Kalmor an Angel Dragon?


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## Mentova (Feb 19, 2015)

I'd rather make a demon dragon. Make him all red with a torn up leather jacket and a flying V guitar and shit. It would be metal as _fuuuuuuuuuck_.


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## monochromatic-dragon (Feb 19, 2015)

Have you tried simply googling "Angel Dragon Rules?" they might be posted somewhere else on the web.

And while I think "closed species" are kind of dumb, I can understand having certain "rules". Species in the real world have certain traits that only have some deviations, so why not apply the same to a made-up one?


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## Taralack (Feb 19, 2015)

Muln said:


> Isn't Kalmor an Angel Dragon?



Pfft, please. Kalmor was an "angel dragon" before that was even a thing.


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## Filter (Feb 19, 2015)

Rules? I'm not aware of any, and even if there were I'd bet most would be optional. Unless you're trying to earn money selling drawings of Telephone or somebody else's OC, I wouldn't worry about it. Just have fun making your character, and feel free to get creative with it.


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## Ozriel (Feb 19, 2015)

Mentova said:


> I'd rather make a demon dragon. Make him all red with a torn up leather jacket and a flying V guitar and shit. It would be metal as _fuuuuuuuuuck_.



Let's do it! 
And they would have to have metal names like "Slash', "Sinful Gorgon", and "Haematological Ecliptic Dancing"!


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## Volkodav (Feb 19, 2015)

The idea of a fluffy dragon with angel wings being somehow unique or belonging to a single person is incredibly fucking stupid
Even Zeriara's design is more unique than the "angel dragon" species and Zeriara is just a leucistic lemur.


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## Conker (Feb 19, 2015)

The fuck is an angel dragon and why would it have rules about it? We're talking stupid furfag fantasy shit here. Quit stressing over it and just make wahtever dumb character you want.


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## Maugryph (Feb 19, 2015)

Conker said:


> The fuck is an angel dragon and why would it have rules about it? We're talking stupid furfag fantasy shit here. Quit stressing over it and just make wahtever dumb character you want.



This is an angel dragon:




I don't understand the hold up either. Dragons with fur and bird wings have been around forever. Just do not use the world 'angel dragon' and you will be all set.


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## InvaderFrostbyte (Jul 4, 2015)

rioichi4 said:


> Hello,
> Does anyone know what the rules are for creating an Angel Dragon? Is there a link somewhere I'm missing? Been all over Ino's FA and website and whatnot and so far all I can find is no schnozz rings and something about not being able to (or maybe not?) name your Angel Dragon after an object, like Telephone or Radio. Do I just draw one up and send it to Ino for approval? I don't wanna bug her, or put my time into something that's just going to get rejected.


dutch angel dragon rules? 
I found these--
*** These rules were set by Telephone herself. Our group follows the original design rules that she herself set for the species. Please respect these rules guys, and you are golden! ****
1. Angel dragons //always\\ have feathered wings.
- NO other angel dragon then Telephone and Radio are allowed to have a ring marking around the muzzle. Anything that looks like a ring like marking around the muzzle isnÂ´t allowed. Even if they arenÂ´t full or not exactly a ring (this can include half rings). Any marking on the muzzle that divides two pieces of fur on the muzzle is NOT allowed! It's a trade mark which only they have.
- Be creative with your design. Try as much as you can to be original and unique. Don't just copy someone else's design.
- DON'T copy Telephone's or Radio's markings or horn designs. You are allowed to do semi similar things when it comes to horns and markings, but not the whole bunch. Just be vigilant.
- Again, try to be original, don't make your angel dragon look too much like somebody else's.
- You are allowed to add things or change things as long as they keep they have feathered wings and still look like angel dragons. (For example, Laura's own AD, Remix, has 4 wings.)
- Don't name your angel dragon similar things to Telephone or Radio. Things like TV, Headphone, Microwave, WiFi etc. are NOT acceptable! Name repeats of other characters are okay!
- You are allowed to have a max of 2 angel dragon characters. No more than that. Any more than 2 angel dragons and you will receive a warning and will need to get rid of the excess dragon(s).
- Angel Dragons are Genderless - please do not do porn art of them!! And do not include genitalia in any of your art. You can refer to them under gender based pronouns (he, she, etc), but please refrain from doing any nudity of angel dragons. This is not only because they are technically genderless but also to keep this species age appropriate. This is also a species wide rule - meaning this applies to angel dragons in and out of the group. This will result in a perma ban if this rule is broken.
- NO Hybrids of Angel Dragons are allowed! We cannot stress this enough, but please guys no hybrids of angel dragons with another animal species. Like if you like lemurs and angel dragons, you CAN make an angel dragon COLORED after a Lemur, but you cannot hybridize the appearance/species of an angel dragon with a Lemur. It still has to be an angel dragon. It can be colored however you want it, just cannot be mixed with another species.
- No Winter Coat/Seasonal coat versions of Angel Dragons are allowed. This was requested by Telephone herself. This doesn't mean you can't have a winter themed angel dragon or an angel dragon based off another season, it just means you cannot have the angel dragon change coats during a different time of year/season.


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## pinkie (Jul 4, 2015)

In order to make an Angel Dragon you have to have seen every episode of Charlie's Angels according to the rules I just made up.


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## -Sliqq- (Jul 4, 2015)

Rules are meant to be broken.


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## CrazyTundraWolf (Jul 4, 2015)

Make an angel dragon breaking every rule they set in that post.
If bothered by them say its a burd dragon


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## Zop (Jul 4, 2015)

You're telling me there are actually rules for these things?


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## Ratical (Jul 4, 2015)

My dream of making Toaster the hermaphrodite ring-nosed Angel Dragon-Hamster has vanished before it even began.


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## Joey (Jul 4, 2015)

I like these rules. 

Furries don't know shit about quality control.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Jul 4, 2015)

InvaderFrostbyte said:


> - NO other angel dragon then Telephone and Radio are allowed to have a ring marking around the muzzle. Anything that looks like a ring like marking around the muzzle isnÂ´t allowed. Even if they arenÂ´t full or not exactly a ring (this can include half rings). Any marking on the muzzle that divides two pieces of fur on the muzzle is NOT allowed! It's a trade mark which only they have.



Haha holy shit what?


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## DarkCedar (Jul 5, 2015)

Ok those rules are just silly. If I wanted to make an angel dragon...which i dont... Im not letting someone Ive never met..tell me what I can or cannot do!

And to tell me I cant have more than two? uh yeah..... you can kindly go fuck yourself!

Unless these designs are "Trade Marked"....Which I do not know if they are. Then they have no rights to set "Rules" for them.

As for the term "Angel Dragon" I think it has to be more about a species of animal rather than an Angelic being. Just like an "Angel Fish" or even "Angel Cake"... they arent Angelic....Its just a name.


When I get my Snerret finally made. I wont be setting rules for the species. Anyone will be able to do with the species what they like. Id just do not want my name taken. And if they want to apply Rule 34 to it...... Hey i say... "Go for it"


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## pheonixbat (Jul 5, 2015)

They really just seem like Western feathered dragons to me, but what do I know?


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## Filter (Jul 5, 2015)

Donut steel sparkledragon.


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## foussiremix (Jul 5, 2015)

WOw the maker of angel dragons is really sick. 

Only 2 Angel dragon characters.... REALLLY THIS IS SICK

And the rule with the trademark is the sickest.

Even no hybrids.

The creator of the species steals the rights kinda for having fantasy, and for making a fursona you need fantasy.

These Rules make me raging. *rapidly stabs hand*



Now i make a species called ANGEL SANDWICH and everyone can do with it wat they want.

And actually they should look like this:


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## ericaquasia (Jul 5, 2015)

I would imagine them being really cute dragons with a more feathery appearance...Though I am certainly no expert. Maugryph posted a rather accurate picture on the bottom of the previous page though that I would guess could be good to look at


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## Blackberry Polecat (Jul 5, 2015)

This is hilarious. Those "rules" are just the best. XD

I've seen footage of Telephone, but I didn't even know what animal she's meant to be until now. I thought she was a kind of deer creature... (I guess I didn't notice the tail.)
Also, what's with the names of appliances? Dragons are meant to be ancient creatures, right? Why modern electronics for names? 

"Don't name your angel dragon similar things to Telephone or Radio.  Things like TV, Headphone, Microwave, WiFi etc. are NOT acceptable! Name  repeats of other characters are okay!" 

What even?! @_@


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## Maelstrom Eyre (Jul 5, 2015)

I like the rules.  They're cute.  They remind me of when I was a kid and the neighborhood kids would create a "club" with rules designed to exclude certain people from joining. . .and you had to wear a certain color or brand of clothing, or style your hair in a certain way. . .and if you broke a rule and got kicked out of the club it really didn't matter because. . .seriously. . .what are they going to do to you?

Lots of mentions of being "banned" if you break the Angel Dragon rules. . .banned from what?  Are they going to confiscate your art and your computer and your fursuit?

Sorry, this just gives me the giggles. . .


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## SkyboundTerror (Jul 5, 2015)

How does one go about reinforcing these fucktard rules?



> - You are allowed to have a max of 2 angel dragon characters. No more  than that. Any more than 2 angel dragons and you will receive a warning  and will need to get rid of the excess dragon(s).



This one in particular. I'm so tempted to create an army of evil angel dragons a la South Park's Woodland Critters just to get reactions.


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## foussiremix (Jul 5, 2015)

I will make fun of these rules

1.rule. Angel wings dont need to have wings with feathers, they can be everything , even made of babys.

2nd rule.you can have ring markings on the muzzle or markings on the horn.

3.rule.Have fantasy and be drunk

4.rule is rule 2

5.rule. You can add to your dragon everything

6.rule. You can name your dragon like electronic things.

7.rule. You can have infinity Angel dragons

8.rule. Angel dragons can have genders and you can make porn with them.

9.rule.Your Angel dragon can be a hybrid and fuck you i dont care stress.

10.rule. Your Angel dragon can change his coat theme every season.

If you want you can change an rule to something funnier.

But  still some of the real rules are dumb.


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## metafang (Jul 6, 2015)

Zenia said:


> Like this guy? http://i.imgur.com/IDb18FM.jpg



that is so acute ;;_____;;


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## PrincessParrot (Jul 6, 2015)

After reading all this, fluffy feathered dragons are forever ruined for me


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## Ratical (Jul 6, 2015)

SkyboundTerror said:


> I'm so tempted to create an army of evil angel dragons a la South Park's Woodland Critters just to get reactions.



You'd probably get blacklisted from the Angel Dragon meets. But you  could always go hang out with the other non-angel normo dragons. They  probably get to have more fun anyway. And genitals.


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## Cinder42 (Jul 6, 2015)

It's sort of sad/funny. I think Angel Dragons are some of the cutest made-up creatures I've ever laid eyes and ears on, but I'd be way too frightened to make my own.


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 6, 2015)

The species of Angel Dragons that Telephone/Ino is are called _"Dutch Angel Dragons"._

You can read all about them at their website: http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/

For anyone who doesn't want to go searching for the rules, here are the updated and rewritten-for-better-clarity guidelines about Dutch Angel Dragon characters:

1. You can personally own up to three (3) dragons at a time
2. Physical traits: 
Horse-like head/body
Feathered wings
No genitalia or digestive track
Long ears
Fur coats​3. Also allowed:
feather accents
horns
claws
scales
hooves or paws
tails
multiple horns, tails, wings, and ears​4. Hybrids, taurs, and shapeshifters of Dutch Angel Dragons are not allowed
5. The species is entirely sexless & genderless
6. Marking guidelines:
With the only exception being Radio & Telephone, Dutch Angel Dragons cannot have a â€œmuzzle ringâ€ marking- that is best described as a band of color that visably separates the front of the nose from the rest of the face across the top by connecting at the edge of the mouth.
Avoid copying existing characters and their markings as much as possible out of courtesy to others.
Designs that are inspired by or based on popular media characters and concepts are acceptable, however, it is highly likely that there may be duplicates in terms of characters and design elements. This needs to be expected and tolerated.
Since true hybrids are disallowed, an alternative is the permission to create dragons inspired by other animals in their colors and markings.​7. Names
Using names shared by other dragons of the community is acceptable, though encouraged to be avoided.
The only names that are not acceptable are ones similar to "Telephone" and "Radio" (i.e Headphones, Wi-Fi, Microwave, Television, etc.)​


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## Maelstrom Eyre (Jul 7, 2015)

So, do you get excommunicated or shunned from the fandom if you "break" one of the Angel Dragon rules?

Does anyone other than other people with Angel Dragons actually care one way or another about the Rules?

Is the fandom infiltrated with spies who report back to some Grand Council when they see someone else breaking The Rules?

I find it hard to believe there aren't at least a few Rogue Angel Dragons out there - especially Dutch ADs - who intentionally break the rules just because there are no actual consequences.


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## AdventDanger (Jul 7, 2015)

There are no rules to making an angel dragon or any other mythical/anthro creature. No matter what you make chances are someones done it before. Your character only has to be original to you. 

Btw i think pupilless eyes are the stuff of nightmares and are in no way, shape, or form even a little bit cute.


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 7, 2015)

Maelstrom Eyre said:


> So, do you get excommunicated or shunned from the fandom if you "break" one of the Angel Dragon rules?
> 
> Does anyone other than other people with Angel Dragons actually care one way or another about the Rules?
> 
> ...



No you don't get excommunicated by the fandom or shunned. If you don't care about the rules, the admins of the species don't care about your actions either. But any admins or anyone who knows the rules would be happy to help you out if you can't understand them. You don't have to get your character approved by anyone either as long as you know you followed the guidelines, unless you're planning on making an adoptable.
And as you can probably tell from this thread, there are plenty of people who make Angel Dragons, more specifically Dutch Angel Dragons, who break the rules, just to be spiteful. The fandom won't bother if people choose to break the rules just to be hateful or try and start stupid drama over a fanmade species.

If you want to create a Dutch Angel Dragon, a character of the same species as Telephone, then follow the species rules so you can get the anatomy and species guidelines right. If you don't want to, then don't complain about the rules. It's just like with any species. If you want to create a Sergal character, don't make a crocodile kitty anteater and call it a "Sergal," you look up the Sergal species and get the anatomy and species guidelines correct. You don't complain that the Sergal species is too strict because the community won't accept your character as a legit Sergal.

You may also create just a normal "Angellic Dragon," which is a generic fantasy species born of human culture which has no rules or guidelines to it, like unicorns, werewolves, and kitsunes. Make the character however you think Angelic dragons should look or be, or however you interpret the species of Angel Dragons. Nobody will bat an eye if you make a crocodile kitty anteater with chibi wings and call it an "Angel Dragon," and specifically _not_ a "Dutch Angel Dragon."


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## Cinder42 (Jul 7, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> The species of Angel Dragons that Telephone/Ino is are called _"Dutch Angel Dragons"._
> 
> You can read all about them at their website: http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/
> 
> ...



 There are a lot of complaints about the "rules" as if they're limiting creativity but personally, as someone who loves when a made-up species has set guidelines to make it seem more real, I have to say I'm sort of a fan of them. It helps to define Dutch Angel Dragons as more of a species rather than just an aesthetic. 

 I make up alien species in my free time for fun and go all the way into their diets, habitats, social structures, physical variations, behavioral quirks and all that nonsense and even though I don't share them publicly, it's because if others got involved I'd be way more strict than the Dutch Angel Dragons.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay..... I just finished reading all the info on the official site and can I just say..... DAAAAAAAMN! Of course there are rules! She deserves them with how much flipping effort was put into the lore of this species! The "No ring on nose" thing seems dumb at first, but it turns out it's because it's tied into the species backstory! I am seriously geeking out right now, this is awesome! This is what I want to see from more original species! Genuine care and effort to make them interesting and unique! 

And, hell, it worked, I'm clearly won over. Now I must resist the urge to make one for as long as I can...... or not.


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## Zop (Jul 7, 2015)

Cinder42 said:


> Okay..... I just finished reading all the info on the official site and can I just say..... DAAAAAAAMN! Of course there are rules! She deserves them with how much flipping effort was put into the lore of this species! The "No ring on nose" thing seems dumb at first, but it turns out it's because it's tied into the species backstory! I am seriously geeking out right now, this is awesome! This is what I want to see from more original species! Genuine care and effort to make them interesting and unique!



*Head explodes*


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 7, 2015)

Heh... I should do write-ups on my own alien/fantasy critters.  Though I did have one lady on an RP forum ask me for permission to create a Nism character.  But so far, no one else has asked.


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## Armored Chocobo (Jul 7, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> No you don't get excommunicated by the fandom or shunned. If you don't care about the rules, the admins of the species don't care about your actions either. But any admins or anyone who knows the rules would be happy to help you out if you can't understand them. You don't have to get your character approved by anyone either as long as you know you followed the guidelines, unless you're planning on making an adoptable.
> And as you can probably tell from this thread, there are plenty of people who make Angel Dragons, more specifically Dutch Angel Dragons, who break the rules, just to be spiteful. The fandom won't bother if people choose to break the rules just to be hateful or try and start stupid drama over a fanmade species.
> 
> If you want to create a Dutch Angel Dragon, a character of the same species as Telephone, then follow the species rules so you can get the anatomy and species guidelines right. If you don't want to, then don't complain about the rules. It's just like with any species. If you want to create a Sergal character, don't make a crocodile kitty anteater and call it a "Sergal," you look up the Sergal species and get the anatomy and species guidelines correct. You don't complain that the Sergal species is too strict because the community won't accept your character as a legit Sergal.
> ...




I'd like to know how banning how many you can have, what they're named, if they have rings on their noses, the inability to be a shape-shifter, or be hybrids count as "learning the anatomy".

If your rules are so pointless that you don't give a damn if they're broken, what's the point of even having rules? Why rules on an imaginary species other than "This is what an angel dragon looks like, make them look like this or similar, thanks".


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## PrincessParrot (Jul 8, 2015)

Okay but like Headphones, Wi-Fi, Microwave, Television sound NOTHING like Radio or Telephone to me. Like it's so stupid. It makes sense that they have rules for what makes up an angle dragon physically but being like "Um you can't name your character this or that" sounds super dumb and pretentious. That and the whole ring marking around the nose. I don't care if it's lore, it really just sounds like someone wanting to be a special snowflake.


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## jorinda (Jul 8, 2015)

SkyboundTerror said:


> How does one go about reinforcing these fucktard rules?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It makes me wonder how "Get rid of excess dragons" works. It reminds me of those farmers who "get rid of excess stray cats" by drowning the kittens.


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## Volkodav (Jul 8, 2015)

Id like to see someone try to make me get rid of my excess dragons


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## Armored Chocobo (Jul 8, 2015)

Volkodav said:


> Id like to see someone try to make me get rid of my excess dragons



You WILL get rid of those excess dragons or we'll write a scathing email at you!


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 8, 2015)

Heh...

"*No genitalia or digestive track*"

Well, there goes all the sexual innuendo and fart jokes.  Sounds like a boring species to me.  Also, it's "tract"... not "track".


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## ExperiMUNt (Jul 8, 2015)

I couldn't help but laugh at these rules like.. 'Scuse the language god god damn those are absolutely ridiculous. PrincessParot is right about the Snowflake part, it's pretty stupid. Don't get me wrong, I honestly think the angle dragons are cute, but seeing these rules make me cringe. Kind of reminds me of a bad role play game, y'know? I do have to agree though on the hybrid part, as an Angle Dragon IS it's own species, so I can understand on not wanting to mix them with other creatures. 

What does majorly upset me though is how everyone calls the angle dragons 'completely unique' even though they have a plush dog-like body, puny wings, giant heads (like have you seen the size of Telephone's head?) and an incredibly floppy tail that goes everywhere with a couple pretty feathers to make it 'cute.' It's interesting, but not really the most creative. A creative species would be the Sergals (in my personal opinion), they have a pretty interesting head shape that reminds me a bit of Knifehead from Pacific Rim when looking at it front the side, and their body shape is pretty interesting. Reminds me of like a dromeaosaur.

All in all though, Angle Dragons are just a.. Well.. Another 'Sergal' craze, and pretty soon it'll die out before a new species pops up and becomes insanely popular.


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 8, 2015)

ExperiMUNt said:


> ... I can understand on not wanting to *mix them with other creatures*.



Kinda hard to do anyway, given Angel Dragons aren't allowed to have reproductive systems.  And just how do you get more Angel Dragons, anyway?  Haven't yet read anything on that issue.  Of course, "angels" are immortal... so, are Angel Dragons immortal?  Unable to die or be killed?  Hard to remain a species if you can't reproduce, and yet die.  Guess I'll have to read about it and see.


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## ExperiMUNt (Jul 8, 2015)

I guess they just kind of (and hilarious as it sounds) spawn? Either that, or that there are many Angel dragons, but most of them have not been 'discovered' yet. Perhaps that explains more on why there are Angel dragons popping up? I know it sounds incredibly ridiculous, but it could be possible. Maybe that's why Ino only says you're allowed to have a limit on the characters? To give people a more open chances of creativity without worrying that somebodies 100th dragon looks familiar to their own?


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## CrazyTundraWolf (Jul 8, 2015)

I have a theory on how angel dragons don't die off! They have a single breeding pair that can produce up to 1000 eggs a day , so a single really horny pair with genetalia.
Or only one generation phased into existence and they'll sorta...die off in a couple of years.


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## -Sliqq- (Jul 8, 2015)

Would that pair be Radio and Telephone?


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 8, 2015)

-Sliqq- said:


> Would that pair be Radio and Telephone?



I don't know... both can be used for communication, so that would seem to be a "no".  However, Radio does it by means of radiating a signal through the air, while Telephone does it by wire.  So, that would imply a "yes"... I'm so confused!

Edit:  http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/#!anatomy--traits/c1fpu ... well, so this is how they "do it".  Amongst other details.


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## ExperiMUNt (Jul 8, 2015)

Their names are confusing as it is. They are cute, but it just doesn't.. Suit??? They're organic creatures, not mechanical. Why even name them off of electrical devices?? I thought they were supposed to be 'magical'? lol


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## Armored Chocobo (Jul 9, 2015)

Roose Hurro said:


> Kinda hard to do anyway, given Angel Dragons aren't allowed to have reproductive systems.  And just how do you get more Angel Dragons, anyway?  Haven't yet read anything on that issue.  Of course, "angels" are immortal... so, are Angel Dragons immortal?  Unable to die or be killed?  Hard to remain a species if you can't reproduce, and yet die.  Guess I'll have to read about it and see.



According to the site, they can die, and they pull a phoenix.

I had a giggle at their powers and something called "Alien" breath. I guess they can breathe Vulcans.

Live long and Mary Sue.


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## ExperiMUNt (Jul 10, 2015)

Armored Chocobo said:


> Live long and Mary Sue.



No kidding, cheers to that haha.


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## Roadkvlted (Jul 10, 2015)

I don't see the uniqueness of their "angel dragon" species to be honest. They look like any other design with as much thought process put into it except they get to have little special tags put on 'em.

Actually, I don't understand species and "closing them off to the public" as a whole. Even having all kind of dumb and lengthy rules really kills the creative process too. You can only do so much with certain designs. It, as a whole, serves no other purpose than "LOOK AT ME I AM SPESHUL PAY ATTENTION TO ME."

/angryrantover


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## PrincessParrot (Jul 10, 2015)

It's like a neopets roleplay


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## ExperiMUNt (Jul 10, 2015)

I think one of the main reasons of it as hyped up was because of the way the suiter portrait Telephone: Cute and playful. Plus, let's not forget the warbler call she uses to make the chirp sounds. And over time as well as the suit improved, it had that right amount of "cuteness" to it, and, with her acting, it caught on and wanted people to be like "Hey, that's cute! I want to _be_ that!"


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## Maelstrom Eyre (Jul 10, 2015)

ExperiMUNt said:


> I think one of the main reasons of it as hyped up was because of the way the suiter portrait Telephone: Cute and playful. Plus, let's not forget the warbler call she uses to make the chirp sounds. And over time as well as the suit improved, it had that right amount of "cuteness" to it, and, with her acting, it caught on and wanted people to be like "Hey, that's cute! I want to _be_ that!"



I agree, I have seen her fursuiting and she does a good job, and it's adorable.

If they just left it at that, it would be fine.

The whole list of rules about markings and horns just seems so. . .excessive.  

Then again. . .as its' said. . .not my circus, not my monkeys.  ADs really aren't a species that interest me enough to want one as a character, so it doesn't matter.


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 10, 2015)

Maelstrom Eyre said:


> I agree, I have seen her fursuiting and she does a good job, and it's adorable.
> 
> If they just left it at that, it would be fine.
> 
> ...



It's much more fun to create your own species, where _you_ get to make the "rules".  Though I do have to admit, they are kinda cute.  But then, I can do cute... or maybe sexy?  Like I said, much more fun to create your own.


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## SodaBubbles (Jul 12, 2015)

DarkCedar said:


> When I get my Snerret finally made. I wont be setting rules for the species. Anyone will be able to do with the species what they like. Id just do not want my name taken. And if they want to apply Rule 34 to it...... Hey i say... "Go for it"


 (/snip)

Snerret? That sounds rad!


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## SodaBubbles (Jul 12, 2015)

Nice design, Roose!

I dunno, with all the "looks" they can have after reincarnation, they kind of stop looking dragon-y at all to me. They're cute just not _dragons. _I mean I'm not expecting Reign of Fire here, but well, I guess it's the head and muzzle shape that makes them look very horse/ponylike and it looks more like a whole new species sort of loosely reminiscent of hippogriffs.


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## ExperiMUNt (Jul 12, 2015)

Yeah I can understand that, but not a lot of people can come up with their own species as they can have a hard time with it. Even though it's cool to make your own species, you're always under the constant pressure of fearing that you'll be copying somebody's design by accident.

Cool species by the way, I like it!


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 14, 2015)

SodaBubbles said:


> Nice design, Roose!



Thanks!  Just wish I'd been the one to do the artwork, or that the lady who did the artwork for me hadn't vanished from the web, far as I can tell.  But... heh... I do have more pics.  Oh, and a bit of info about a male Nism's shroudruff:  Not only is it a display to attract females, it serves as a "blanket" for newborn young, who ride on their father's back.  So, it's not "just there" for looks.  Or to "be cool".



ExperiMUNt said:


> Yeah I can understand that, but not a lot of people can come up with their own species as they can have a hard time with it. Even though it's cool to make your own species, *you're always under the constant pressure of fearing that you'll be copying somebody's design by accident*.



Hmmm... yeah, I'd imagine some might fear that.  But I don't allow such a consideration to hold me back.  Such a "fear" just stifles creativity.  If you copy?  Hey, if it's an accident, then I've done something right.  It's not like I "stole" someone else's idea.  It's more like they and me think alike, when it comes to a critter design.  I'd consider it more of a compliment, if it happened to me.  Certainly nothing to worry about.



ExperiMUNt said:


> Cool species by the way, I like it!



Thanks!  (Heh... I'm assuming it's aimed my way...)  When trying to come up with a "critter"... well, I try to look out at all our own planet has come up with, then extrapolate to another world setting what "could" exist.  I try to have a reason for every detail, or at least an explanation.  Like I have for a Nism male's shroudruff, as detailed above.


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## SodaBubbles (Jul 14, 2015)

That makes for an excellent reason for it! (not that it'd matter if it was just there to be cool haha)

I'm into world-building to that degree also, I have a dozen or so txt files packed with planetary data, extrapolated from using ours as a base. I'm also a huge fan of species-building as well. I'm heavily into concepts as a whole, really.


----------



## Roose Hurro (Jul 14, 2015)

SodaBubbles said:


> *That makes for an excellent reason for it!* (not that it'd matter if it was just there to be cool haha)



Hey, even if you do it "to be cool"... well, you should be able to come up with a reason, even if it's just "my character's species/culture are/is all into body mods."  Or something like that.  After all, look at all the humans who mod their bodies just because "It's cool, Man!"  And yes, it could also be just the way your particular character looks, for the same reason.  Only "different body, different mods"........



SodaBubbles said:


> I'm into world-building to that degree also, I have a dozen or so txt files packed with planetary data, extrapolated from using ours as a base. I'm also a huge fan of species-building as well. *I'm heavily into concepts as a whole, really.*



Same here, so we have something in common.  Makes the whole process fun, to boot.  My namesake "Roose" has some unique anatomical details, and a complete culture built around his original concept as my online avatar.  Started as just an alien "critter" representation of me, for use when I finally got online, to being a full character, with all the details thought out.  Anatomy, biology, technology, morality, society, culture, behavior patterns... the whole wad.  I could go on for pages, just on him and his species, alone.  Not to mention all my other alien/fantasy critters.

Fun!  Fun!


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## Calemeyr (Jul 25, 2015)

I was thinking...did Ino actually register a copyright for the species or is this some sort of verbal "this is mine" thing?

I don't think she did copyright them. What is she gonna do if you have 3 dragons with winter coats, genders, and muzzle rings named TV, walkie-talkie, and PC? Whine about it? "Oh no you can't do that. Oh no you have to auction one of those off." Just try and stop me. Though she could be petty and sick her rabid fans on you...

This closed species stuff is stupid. It's a whole lotta garbage made up by people who don't understand how copyright works. I don't care if you posted your knockoff sergal/mana-beast on deviantart and the site says it's copyrighted by you. Nope, you never registered it. Now, I could be wrong with these things. But I don't think it will fly in court.
Also, is the whole concept of a furry winged dragon unique enough for copyright? Perhaps a trademark for the name.


----------



## ExperiMUNt (Jul 25, 2015)

Well as mentioned before, there are already fuzzy winged dragons, the only thing Ino did is that she had made the design more simplified and cuter. 

Her rules are just ridiculous is all, but, rules are meant to be broken, right? I think they're pretty cool, but when finding out there were 'rules' to even have an angel dragon, it just really put me off.


----------



## PriestessShizuka (Jul 27, 2015)

Armored Chocobo said:


> I'd like to know how banning how many you can have, what they're named, if they have rings on their noses, the inability to be a shape-shifter, or be hybrids count as "learning the anatomy".
> 
> If your rules are so pointless that you don't give a damn if they're broken, what's the point of even having rules? Why rules on an imaginary species other than "This is what an angel dragon looks like, make them look like this or similar, thanks".



Although they are an open species, they are a regulated species. The rings-on-the-muzzle thing is explained in their backstory. They cannot be a shape-shifter because they won't take any other animal's form. They can't be hybridized because they don't "breed" with other animals. 

And the rules exist to make the species an actual species and not just a "It's a thing like Telephone but you can do whatever the ff you want and call it a Telephone" so people can know how to make a character of the Dutch Angel Dragon species, which is what Telephone is. The rules exist to help people know what features a DutchAD has that makes it a DutchAD.

If you're going to throw a hissyfit about the rules, why are you even trying to make an Angel Dragon in the first place? Like I said, if you have such a _MAJOR _need to throw a drama fest about the rules if you don't get your way, the community and admins don't have to accept you as an actually _interested_ Angel Dragon owner. If you actually care about owning a Dutch Angel Dragon character and being a part of the community, then you should make sure your DutchAD is following the rules. 

Like with any other species, if you want to make a character of that species, learn its rules and what makes your character a legit member of that species. Learn that Sergals don't have wings and all have pointy noses, Manokits (ironically) can't swim and close their eyes, Cruxes have that weird ear shape and do the thing with their tails... Dutch Angel Dragons have their guidelines which define the species as well.

I seriously shouldn't have to be explaining such common sense and logic. ._.

Also, just saying. Dutch Angel Dragons actually allow more creative freedom than any of the other species's listed above. XD They can be any color (Sergals have a dark-to-light color pattern usually) have unique numbers of tails, ears, wings and types of eyes, tails and feet (manokits all have shark tails, paws, ears and cruxes and Sergals don't vary much) and can have horns, feathers, fluff, tendrils, feelers, etc. anywhere you want! :3
(of course I'm not competitively against the other species at all; I think they're all super cool and amazingly creative!)


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 27, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> I seriously shouldn't have to be explaining such common sense and logic. ._.



Common sense says that it's my character and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I don't wish _my_ character to play by _their_ rules.

Sounds like an insult?

I assure you, that's a creator's standpoint.


----------



## PriestessShizuka (Jul 28, 2015)

-Sliqq- said:


> Common sense says that it's my character and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. I don't wish _my_ character to play by _their_ rules.
> 
> Sounds like an insult?
> 
> I assure you, that's a creator's standpoint.



Yes you can do whatever you want with your character.
But if you want your character to _be_ of someone else's species, then follow that person's species guidelines so that your character _is _of that species.
If you don't want to follow those rules, then don't make it of the species. 
It's as simple as that.

And also I mentioned before that you can just make your character a generic Angellic Dragon, not of the Dutch Angel Dragon species. Just an Angel Dragon. And you don't even have to give a single flying flip about the Dutch Angel Dragon rules. 
Why doesn't anyone seem to understand this? Why does everything have to be about complaining about the rules? Rules exist for a good reason. And no, you're not bound to them if you choose to separate yourself from the conditions that would put yourself under the influence of the rules.


----------



## -Sliqq- (Jul 28, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> Why doesn't anyone seem to understand this? Why does everything have to be about complaining about the rules? Rules exist for a good reason. And no, you're not bound to them if you choose to separate yourself from the conditions that would put yourself under the influence of the rules.



Because it will always be bypassed -- and some of them are pointless and are irrelevant. I'm even more bothered that the rings around the muzzles are part of some backstory that probably isn't acted out; Having names that no one can choose, breaks the purpose of having that rule in place; It would be inconsistent with the rest of the species.

I've heard of quality control, but it's pointless here. We all know who the original one is.


----------



## PriestessShizuka (Jul 28, 2015)

-Sliqq- said:


> Because it will always be bypassed -- and some of them are pointless and are irrelevant. I'm even more bothered that the rings around the muzzles are part of some backstory that probably isn't acted out; Having names that no one can choose, breaks the purpose of having that rule in place; It would be inconsistent with the rest of the species.
> 
> I've heard of quality control, but it's pointless here. We all know who the original one is.



Which ones are pointless and irrelevant? And I can tell you that there are plenty of people in the community who understand the rules and have no problem at all following them. They're not that hard at all. How do you want the backstory to be "acted out"? And how does having one name limitation break the purpose of having a name limitation? Or break the inconsistency of the rest of the species?


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## -Sliqq- (Jul 28, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> Which ones are pointless and irrelevant? And I can tell you that there are plenty of people in the community who understand the rules and have no problem at all following them. They're not that hard at all. How do you want the backstory to be "acted out"? And how does having one name limitation break the purpose of having a name limitation? Or break the inconsistency of the rest of the species?





InvaderFrostbyte said:


> dutch angel dragon rules?
> I found these--
> *** These rules were set by Telephone herself. Our group follows the original design rules that she herself set for the species. Please respect these rules guys, and you are golden! ****
> 1. Angel dragons //always\\ have feathered wings.
> ...



Backstory is explained in the way they talk and the way they conduct themselves. It provides a guideline for characterization -- Not the other way around.

A single name limitation breaks the focus away from the other DutchADs. There are only 2 ADs with the same type of name making them stand out from all the other 'generic' names. If I dreamed to name my character Remote, it would be crushed shortly, only because they are "Trademarked characters".


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 28, 2015)

Those rules aren't the set of current up-to-date rules, which are explained much better and clearer. They've also been rewritten so people wouldn't get so offended over a "tone" or a way a rule was conveyed or come across as.
As for the rings, this is the actual backstory:
Before the time of conflict, all Dutch Angel Dragons had a special marking around their muzzle in the shape of a ring. This was a symbol that represented their bond of loyalty to the realm and a promise of the duties they would uphold. When they no longer had the ability to reside in the Paradise and this responsibility was revoked, the ancient ones removed the band from their coats to show that this bond was now broken. It is for this reason that no Dutch Angel Dragon can have or form this marking on themselves, as it is no longer within their abilities to do so.

However, Telephone was unique in the way that it had not joined the conflict, holding strong to its duty as a protector and guardian, and was not forced to leave by the ancient ones. However, a great sadness had formed within Telephone as they have now become completely isolated from the rest of the Angel Dragons. Since the roles of the realms have now changed, there was no longer a necessity to protect anything from within the Paradise: no internal conflicts could be introduced and no outside influences could find their way into the realm that did not meet the requirements for integrating with the realm. Although allowed to stay, Telephone ultimately chose to leave and join the rest of the Dutch Angel Dragons in Aether. It is the only dragon that is able and continues to display the ring marking around its muzzle.

And the name limitation doesn't do that. The purpose of that rule is simply to keep people from all naming their characters "Telephone", "Television", and "Headphone". What's so terrible about not being able to name your character one of literally like three or four names besides Telephone and Radio? It doesn't have to be a big deal.


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## Joey (Jul 28, 2015)

I'm still #teamangeldragon


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## -Sliqq- (Jul 28, 2015)

> I'm reading very deep into the rules.  More so than most. 
> I'm glad that the backstory was cleared up. I'll need to reevaluate their characterization
> Honestly, if it wasn't such a big deal, it shouldn't be a rule. It should only say : try not to copy other's OCs

I'm going to bed.  So out of respect,  I'll tell you. Have a good night's sleep ma'am


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 28, 2015)

I wish it didn't have to be such a big deal, but unfortunately kids of this fandom need to be told specifically some regulations for avoiding copying others' OCs. Otherwise you're definitely right, it would only have to say "Try not to copy others' OCs." XD

Good night~


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## foussiremix (Jul 28, 2015)

i hate the rule only having 2 angel dragons since that is dum and makes no logical sense.

Its causing my afro to expand ( Í¡Â° ÍœÊ– Í¡Â°)


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## Maugryph (Jul 28, 2015)

foussiremix said:


> i hate the rule only having 2 angel dragons since that is dum and makes no logical sense.
> 
> Its causing my afro to expand ( Í¡Â° ÍœÊ– Í¡Â°)



I'd like to see Telephone try to enforce that. Especially since the idea of a dragon with feathers is not an original concept in the first place. quetzalcoatl beat her hundreds and hundreds of years.


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 28, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> I'd like to see Telephone try to enforce that. Especially since the idea of a dragon with feathers is not an original concept in the first place. quetzalcoatl beat her hundreds and hundreds of years.



Remember the rules you're reading from that other post are outdated; The limited was extended to 3 Dutch Angel Dragons.
Also remember that as a species, they're not just "feathered dragons" just as Sergals aren't just "kitty lizards"; Dutch Angel Dragons have a very unique anatomy.


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## Maugryph (Jul 28, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> Remember the rules you're reading from that other post are outdated; The limited was extended to 3 Dutch Angel Dragons.
> Also remember that as a species, they're not just "feathered dragons" just as Sergals aren't just "kitty lizards"; Dutch Angel Dragons have a very unique anatomy.



No, They do not a resemble a unique species.I can google many pictures of feathered dragons that where made before angel dragons where 'created'.

Addum: As a side note, I have nothing against angel dragons or Telephone. I've seen some cool designs of feathered dragons in the past. It just bothers me that she claims the concept as her own. I would be like me claiming that western dragons are my own design and that no one can draw them with out following my 'rules'. I would be laughed out of FA.


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## Calemeyr (Jul 29, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> Remember the rules you're reading from that other post are outdated; The limited was extended to 3 Dutch Angel Dragons.
> Also remember that as a species, they're not just "feathered dragons" just as Sergals aren't just "kitty lizards"; Dutch Angel Dragons have a very unique anatomy.



Sergals are wolf-sharks not kitty-lizards...

I gotta speak generally, Furries, you take your fursonas too damn seriously. If it's something meant to represent you, to hell with "rules". OC rules belong on Deviantart with Sonic recolors and bad fanfics you made when you were 14. I say, add muzzle rings. Have fun! Make it a shapeshifter. Unless the makers show the species is registered under US copyright, they have no claim of ownership of the idea. Individual pieces of art, yes, they own those. But rings around the muzzle? Lots of real animals have that (ring billed gull is an example). Fluffy horse bird cat dragons? Nope. And I don't think they can copyright even the design, actually.

Now, if you want to be part of the creator's shared world? Yes, then you need to follow their rules. That's "canon". So even though go ahead and make your own 'sona, respect the canon.


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 30, 2015)

Maugryph said:


> No, They do not a resemble a unique species.I can google many pictures of feathered dragons that where made before angel dragons where 'created'.
> 
> Addum: As a side note, I have nothing against angel dragons or Telephone. I've seen some cool designs of feathered dragons in the past. It just bothers me that she claims the concept as her own. I would be like me claiming that western dragons are my own design and that no one can draw them with out following my 'rules'. I would be laughed out of FA.



At the bottom of the website on every page, it reads:

Dutch Angel Dragons are an open and regulated species developed by and copyrighted to Deanna Biesemeyer (Ino). Here we often use the shortened term â€œAngel Dragonsâ€ and this will always be referring to the specific species made by Ino within this website.

*We do not, in any way, lay claim to all angelic-like dragons and do not inhibit the use of the term â€œangel dragonâ€ by anyone. Fair warning: It has been observed that using this description for other concepts may lead to confusion and/or conflict within circles who know of Inoâ€™s species.* Use at your own risk.
For help on this subject, please read the full disclaimer here.

"Here" is a link to:

Concept Disclaimer:


Dutch Angel Dragons, or more commonly known by their shortened name â€œAngel Dragonsâ€, are an open and regulated species developed by and copyrighted to Deanna Biesemeyer/Ino. She is the creator of the first (Dutch) Angel Dragon character: Telephone. The word â€œDutchâ€ was a title added onto the name to better distinguish it as a proper species. It also does not refer to the Dutch people or language in any way- Inoâ€™s late horse which inspired the creation of the species was named Dutch.


Dutch Angel Dragons are independent from and does not hold claim over the long-standing concept of angelic dragons, and therefore uses of the term â€œangel dragonâ€ can apply as a description to creatures or ideas completely unassociated with this community and species. It may be best to assume that not every instance or use of the word â€œangel dragonâ€ refers to Inoâ€™s Dutch Angel Dragons. We do not inhibit the use or dictate the appropriateness of using the term, but we would like to state as a fair warning that using this description for other concepts has been observed to cause confusion and/or create conflict among those familiar with the Telephone character and the specific species it belongs to. This is especially true in circles where Ino's species is most widely known and recognized simply as â€œAngel Dragonsâ€, with or without the Dutch title involved.


DutchAngelDragons.com may use the shortened term â€œAngel Dragonâ€ internally, and this will always be describing Inoâ€™s species; the Dutch title is simply to be inferred in these instances. The name/title of this specific species will also always be capitalized as a proper noun (ie. â€œAngel Dragonâ€ vs â€œangel dragonâ€). We often use the alternative term â€œangelic dragonâ€ when speaking of concepts unrelated to Inoâ€™s species, and we also encourage the use of the species' full title as much as possible outside of the community.

Use at your own risk.


â€‹Does this answer your concern?


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## Armored Chocobo (Jul 30, 2015)

PriestessShizuka said:


> At the bottom of the website on every page, it reads:
> 
> Dutch Angel Dragons are an open and regulated species developed by and copyrighted to Deanna Biesemeyer (Ino). Here we often use the shortened term â€œAngel Dragonsâ€ and this will always be referring to the specific species made by Ino within this website.
> 
> ...



So you don't lay claim on the name "Angel Dragon" or don't inhibit use of the name for any reason, but impose a ton of nonsense rules on them that EVERYONE must follow?

The hypocrisy is strong here.

You know what, I just imagined a Dutch angel dragon. He has a muzzle ring, half-chocobo, and is called "Dishwasher". Come at me.


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## Wolf-Man-Kyle (Jul 30, 2015)

I understand the need to feel protective of your species, but it's literally just the dumbest thing ever. Does someone have a copyright on the entire feline species? No. That would be silly. I understand, but it's stupid. The fact that that actual says it's copyrighted pisses me off. It's not right. It's stupid. :\ Just being honest. I understand why the "rules" exist. But what if I just wanna make something adorable like that with a certain marking and certain name, or maybe I wanna make four? Am I gonna be arrested for copyright or something? What the hell.


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## chesse20 (Jul 30, 2015)

lol the angel dragon rules on no adult art is dumb lmao what's the point of fursona if you can't commison sexy art of it???


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## LegitWaterfall (Jul 30, 2015)

Where's the fun in having a character if there must be restrictions?


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## PriestessShizuka (Jul 30, 2015)

Armored Chocobo said:


> So you don't lay claim on the name "Angel Dragon" or don't inhibit use of the name for any reason, but impose a ton of nonsense rules on them that EVERYONE must follow?
> 
> The hypocrisy is strong here.
> 
> You know what, I just imagined a Dutch angel dragon. He has a muzzle ring, half-chocobo, and is called "Dishwasher". Come at me.



You didn't read the post correctly at all. No one is laying a single copyright to the entire Angel Dragon mythical species. The madeup species that is copyrighted by ino89777/Telephone is *"Dutch Angel Dragon."
*If you're so hellbent on making a character just to spite a madeup original species by breaking all that species's rules and guidelines, then have at it. You're not making a single worthwhile point. If you want more fun trying to get a big rise out of a subfandom, try somewhere else.


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## Joey (Jul 30, 2015)

Boo-hoo. There's guidelines you have to follow. Deal with it, nerds.

The Angel Dragon thing is like a club, and if you want to be part of said club you can either follow the rules or you can just... not be a part of it.

Yeah, some of the rules are pretty silly, but a lot of the other ones are actually sorta clever and keep everything organized. 

Whenever someone comes up with something new, original and popular in the fandom, people (and by "people", I mostly mean teenagers) are going to copy and abuse that idea immediately. That's why these rules were written in the first place.


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## Roose Hurro (Jul 30, 2015)

LegitWaterfall said:


> Where's the fun in having a character if there must be restrictions?



Well, all characters must have restrictions of some sort.  Otherwise, you'd have complete and utter chaos.  And this gross, wiggling pile of flesh/scales/fur/feathers/quills/whatever... and what fun would there be in that?  My own characters have restrictions based on their species limits, and the fact I follow the science that no two dissimilar species can procreate together.  In other words, most if not all of the furry "hybrids" in this fandom are scientifically/genetically impossible.  But then, those are my restrictions when I create a character.  Since I create alien species (well, fantasy critters, too, but I still set restrictions, for fun), I like to create critter that, whether they exist or not, _could_ potentially exist.  YMMV...


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## Armored Chocobo (Aug 2, 2015)

Joey said:


> The Angel Dragon thing is like a club, and if you want to be part of said club you can either follow the rules or you can just... not be a part of it.



Not really.

You wanna make a cute feathery dragon and call it an angel dragon, you don't have to be part of the "club" to do that. No one can stop your mind, not without a heck of a lot of legal paperwork anyway.

It's more like there's a chess club in your area, and you decide to play chess with some of your friends and some made-up rules and they go "No, you can't do that, follow our rules".


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## LegitWaterfall (Aug 3, 2015)

Roose Hurro said:


> Well, all characters must have restrictions of some sort.  Otherwise, you'd have complete and utter chaos.  And this gross, wiggling pile of flesh/scales/fur/feathers/quills/whatever... and what fun would there be in that?  My own characters have restrictions based on their species limits, and the fact I follow the science that no two dissimilar species can procreate together.  In other words, most if not all of the furry "hybrids" in this fandom are scientifically/genetically impossible.  But then, those are my restrictions when I create a character.  Since I create alien species (well, fantasy critters, too, but I still set restrictions, for fun), I like to create critter that, whether they exist or not, _could_ potentially exist.  YMMV...


Of course, I understand that. What I meant was, why have a character if you must restrict markings (no ring on the snout, for ex.), names, or basic physical appearance? I was referring to rule restriction, not so much the universal restriction. I wouldn't enjoy having my inbox crammed with butthurt furries exclaiming that what I'm doing with *my personal character* is against so-and-so's rules.

Fluffy dragons with bird wings and big ears are nothing new, so IMO it's more trouble than its worth. As far as I see, and I'm open to proof and an explanation, Angel Dragons aren't exactly an "official species"; they're dragons...


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## Calemeyr (Aug 3, 2015)

I'm going to say it again, I really doubt ino actually went and registered the species for copyright, and she's just saying it is because she doesn't understand how copyright works. And the rules aren't restrictive enough to make the species copyrightable. In fact, the muzzle ring and fur pattern SHOULD be the thing that links members of the species. Otherwise there really isn't anything to copyright except the name, which would instead be a trademark, and I don't think she got one of those either.

Though I could be wrong...

Otherwise, it's like someone saying "I trademarked (but not really) cartoon griffins, I call them 'groffins' and they can't have blue eyes because that's what my fursona has. Also there is some backstory that came out of a fanfic or something. You can only have three because, um...? Species copyright by me because I say so on my Deviantart!"

If she wants a regulated species, she needs more rules describing what they can look like. Coat pattern variations and types of colors. The muzzle ring thing sounds like a special snowflake thing, I'm sorry guys.


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Aug 3, 2015)

Roose Hurro said:


> Well, all characters must have restrictions of some sort.  Otherwise, you'd have complete and utter chaos.  And this gross, wiggling pile of flesh/scales/fur/feathers/quills/whatever... and what fun would there be in that?  My own characters have restrictions based on their species limits, and the fact I follow the science that no two dissimilar species can procreate together.  In other words, most if not all of the furry "hybrids" in this fandom are scientifically/genetically impossible.  But then, those are my restrictions when I create a character.  Since I create alien species (well, fantasy critters, too, but I still set restrictions, for fun), I like to create critter that, whether they exist or not, _could_ potentially exist.  YMMV...



you never read a sci fi, its plenty possible


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## BagelRabbit (Aug 3, 2015)

WolfNightV4X1 said:


> you never read a sci fi, its plenty possible



There is a reason it's called science _fiction_...

IMHO, this shouldn't be an issue at all. There is _no_ distinctive feature of the Dutch Angel Dragon race that is unique enough to merit a "copyright." The muzzle ring has been done before. The overall facial shape has been done before, as a matter of fact. The only thing that anyone could call unique about Telephone is her squeaker: I don't think that anyone had used a squeaker like Telephone did prior to her appearance. If you tried to copyright the style of squeaking, though, a massive throng of rabid fans would start throwing bits of rotten fruit at you. So, y'know, that's not an option.

I think that ino should make it clear that doing too close of a replica of Telephone is wrong. Not because of any supposed copyright, but just for the sake of courtesy. However, if someone wants to put a muzzle ring on their angel dragon, I think it would be childish to try to prevent them "because I said so and that's why."

That being said, I'm almost certain that the whole Telephone/Dutch Angel Dragon thing will be old news in less than a year. Or at least, I _r__eally really _hope so...

-Bagel

[oh, and if anyone mentioned the points I'm making before now, I'm sorry. I'm lazy this thread is long.]


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## Armored Chocobo (Aug 3, 2015)

BagelRabbit said:


> There is a reason it's called science _fiction_...



So since when does imagination have to follow scientific law instead of just being labeled science fiction when an impossible hybrid happens?



> But then, those are my restrictions when I create a character.



Yes, YOUR restrictions. You're not imposing those restrictions on other people's creations, yes?


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## Nashida (Aug 3, 2015)

I'm not sure how much Priestess Shizuka actually covered so if I'm reposting something I'm sorry.

The only true "rules" are 1. Be original with your design, and 2. No muzzle rings. This isn't so much a copyright thing as a courtesy. While it is inevitable some of the dragons are going to look alike or share colors schemes, she asks that dragons be different and distinguishable enough. This is largely because when people saw how popular Telephone was many began copying her exact design or starting making their own original dragons and Tele's rabid white knights attacked them, something she didn't want. She loves how many dragons there are and likes how big the community had grown (the "official" Facebook group has near 4,000 members), so she doesn't want any more white knighting to happen because somebody looks too different from another.

The muzzle ring thing is also a courtesy thing as she was the original Dutch Angel Dragon, but in her story and universe a great war and event occurred that caused dragons born after the incident to lose them. That's why all dragons "born" after Telephone don't have them/aren't allowed them. The whole backstory is hinted at here: http://www.dutchangeldragons.com/

Actually, the species info tab on that site covers a lot of the stuff.


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## Joey (Aug 3, 2015)

Armored Chocobo said:


> Not really.
> 
> You wanna make a cute feathery dragon and call it an angel dragon, you don't have to be part of the "club" to do that. No one can stop your mind, not without a heck of a lot of legal paperwork anyway.
> 
> It's more like there's a chess club in your area, and you decide to play chess with some of your friends and some made-up rules and they go "No, you can't do that, follow our rules".



If you wanna actually call it an angel dragon and have it be authentic then you do. If it's non-canon then it's not an angel dragon.


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## Godtier (Aug 3, 2015)

Joey said:


> If you wanna actually call it an angel dragon and have it be authentic then you do. If it's non-canon then it's not an angel dragon.



Just wondering, what exactly is the perk of having an "authentic" angel dragon?


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## Roose Hurro (Aug 4, 2015)

LegitWaterfall said:


> Of course, I understand that. What I meant was, why have a character if you must restrict markings (no ring on the snout, for ex.), names, or basic physical appearance? I was referring to rule restriction, not so much the universal restriction. I wouldn't enjoy having my inbox crammed with butthurt furries exclaiming that what I'm doing with *my personal character* is against so-and-so's rules.
> 
> Fluffy dragons with bird wings and big ears are nothing new, so IMO it's more trouble than its worth. As far as I see, and I'm open to proof and an explanation, Angel Dragons aren't exactly an "official species"; *they're dragons...*



Indeed, and I just happen to have a "dragon" species of my own I created... even gave them their own planet and culture and ways of looking at life.  So if someone told me my "dragons" weren't proper, I'd just thumb my nose at them and go about my business.




WolfNightV4X1 said:


> *you never read a sci fi*, its plenty possible



Oh, I've read plenty of sci fi... gobs of the stuff, in fact.  Having two alien species produce viable offspring always triggers my "science gland".  Just ain't gonna happen in MY universes.  As Creator, my rules... Rule.



Armored Chocobo said:


> Yes, YOUR restrictions. *You're not imposing those restrictions on other people's creations, yes?*



To be frank, I don't care what other people create... you do your thing, I do mine.  You want a human and Vulcan to produce a son, fine.  Just don't say my own Universe has to accept such a hybrid.  If I want a hybrid, I'll find my own way to justify it (I do write fantasy, as well as sci fi, so it's not like I can't, even under my own "rules").


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## Armored Chocobo (Aug 4, 2015)

Godtier said:


> Just wondering, what exactly is the perk of having an "authentic" angel dragon?



You get invited to all those awesome beach parties they have alongside the Star-Bellied Sneetches.

Shit gets crazy.


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## WolfNightV4X1 (Aug 4, 2015)

BagelRabbit said:


> There is a reason it's called science _fiction_...



So are single species furries what's your point?


Roose Hurro said:


> Indeed, and I just happen to have a "dragon" species of my own I created... even gave them their own planet and culture and ways of looking at life.  So if someone told me my "dragons" weren't proper, I'd just thumb my nose at them and go about my business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Apologies if it sounded like I said you shouldn't exclude hybrids, I just meant they were perfectly possible to exist and plenty of authors have created grounds for it to exist exist in through fictional scientific means means, although for the most part I see it less possible naturally and more with experimental interaction and manipulation, if you want to make a stand for "realistic" hybrids, as real as can be.

Though there's also plenty of universes that do not question the natural existence of hybrids as there isn't any ground in reality anyways, it just is.


But by all means I'm not offended it you don't have them in your story.


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## LegitWaterfall (Aug 6, 2015)

I remember posting the WIP photos of my bird/dragon hybrid fur suit head, and not five minutes later I received a comment that all but said (and I could be overreacting) "You're copying Telephone". The dragon I was using just happened to have the short snout, wave-y horns, and face spikes that Telephone had, but I had designed the suit long before I knew about this "Angel Dragon" thing.

Here's the post: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/11154965/


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## Roose Hurro (Aug 7, 2015)

Armored Chocobo said:


> You get invited to all those awesome beach parties they have alongside the Star-Bellied Sneetches.
> 
> *Shit gets crazy.*



Especially when they start playing beach volleyball.......*


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## Maugryph (Aug 7, 2015)

Roose Hurro said:


> Especially when they start playing beach volleyball.......*



...until one of them pops it with it's nose horn.


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## SodaBubbles (Aug 7, 2015)

LegitWaterfall said:


> I remember posting the WIP photos of my bird/dragon hybrid fur suit head, and not five minutes later I received a comment that all but said (and I could be overreacting) "You're copying Telephone". The dragon I was using just happened to have the short snout, wave-y horns, and face spikes that Telephone had, but I had designed the suit long before I knew about this "Angel Dragon" thing.
> 
> Here's the post: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/11154965/




You aren't overreacting. I mean, "that looks waaaaaaaaaay too much like so-and-so" is typically codespeak for "you're copying!" Which is funny because it doesn't really look the same. It's cute though!


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