# On Drafts



## M. LeRenard (Jun 28, 2008)

(Copied and pasted from way back when)

A little something about drafts in novel writing (though this could apply to other forms as well, I'm sure):
A rough draft is exactly that; it should not under any circumstances be your final version of the work you are writing (unless, of course, you're one of those 'I only write for myself' kind of people, in which case, don't bother reading this thread).

With that in mind, know that it is actually somewhat pointless to ask for a critique of your rough draft. In fact, it's a little rude. Here's why:

A rough draft is your medium through which you get your ideas into prose form. In the rough draft, you should not be worrying about grammar, spelling, word choice, voice, or anything you learned about writing that makes writing good. All you want to do is get your ideas down into words as quickly as you possibly can, never mind the details. It's the writer's version of a preliminary sketch; just draw some lines until you get the general gist of what the final product might look like.

As such, asking for someone to edit your rough draft is like sketching a couple of lines on paper, then asking someone to ink it, add shading, color, and other details until the drawing is done. Actually writing the piece should be about 10% of the work; the other 90% is editing like crazy.

Here's one method for producing a quality piece of writing. Write the rough draft, then let it sit for a few weeks/months/years/however long it takes you to lose your personal connection to the piece, then pick it back up again and read through it. Don't correct grammar or anything during this step, but do make notes about storyline: where you botch things (I wrote that this person is 10 years old here, but then 2 weeks pass in the storyline and she's having a baby?). Fill up a notebook with things that bug you about the work, inconsistencies, words you use too often, whatever. Once you've done that, rewrite. Make another rough draft, this time employing the large-scale corrections you've made to the work.

Then, if you are a patient person, wait another couple of weeks and repeat the process, and keep doing that as many times as it takes until you get to a point where you like what you've written. Once you're done with the large-scale corrections, THEN you worry about grammar and spelling and word choice and all that stuff. You have to get the story to be structurally sound before you can start messing with the decoration. You don't see people putting statues on a building while it's still in the I-beam stage of construction.

Once you're done with that and you like how your piece looks/sounds/feels/flows/whatever, THEN you can start asking for critiques. This is an important step; you got out all of the funkiness that you noticed, but you won't notice everything, so now you show it to other people to find out what you missed. Consider their advice for its validity, of course; it's your work; you know what you like and what you don't, so you can choose to ignore things people say. But you must also be able to recognize good advice when you hear it.

Then, once you've listened to how bad your work sucks, take the advice you want to take and apply it. That's the last step you'll need to make the thing as good as it can get without asking for a professional to look over it for you (in other words, before you want to send out query letters to agents or publishing companies, if you want to get published).

Then, if you so desire, you'll send a copy to some agent, that agent will possibly love it and give it to an editor, and that editor will tear it into tiny pieces, and you'll have to write yet another draft. But, barring a crummy editor who's only concern is dumbing it down for dumb audiences so it will sell (of which there are plenty; avoid young editors, mostly, I think, and go for the 1950's era kind instead, so I've heard), it will be a good copy that people will want to pay money to read.

In conclusion, take your time.  To use the old clichÃ©, "Rome wasn't built in a day."  The road to writing a novel is long and painful and has a lot of rockslides and blizzards and things along the way, so don't try to run it.

(Edited this one a bit.  Now discuss.)


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## dietrc70 (Jun 29, 2008)

More good advice.

I write excruciatingly slowly and inefficiently, so I'm wary of offering any advice of my own.

Personally, I don't really have "drafts" because I am constantly rereading and editing the original.  If there are flaws (bad dialogue, awkward shifts) they stick out so much that I can't make progress until they get fixed.  The effect I try to get with my writing is driven more by language style rather than action, though, so flaws that would be minor in a more plot-driven story can completely destroy the mood of a scene in my own work.

I have a drafts file, but it is more a recycle bin for parts of a story that I thought were good, but didn't fit and needed to be cut.

Of course, after obsessing so long over ever sentence I'd never stand for my work actually being edited by someone else.  I decided a long time ago though, to simply publish my own work as PDFs (I'm picky about fonts and layout) and distribute them for free.  I can't expect to ever make money with my writing--I'm far too slow and obsessive, and while I respect magazines a lot their distribution is so small that one will miss too many people who might appreciate one's work.


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## Murphy Z (Jun 16, 2009)

Before I make a draft, I try to have the idea, character, etc. percolate in my mind for a little while. What will happen? Is the idea good? Is it overdone? This seems to prevent a lot of false starts - you know, when you write about half a page and realize you're wasting your time.

My first (and second) drafts are almost always penciled in on paper. I can zoom through faster than typing. In my first draft I try just to zoom. But if a question arises that I don't know, I jot something down on the side and move on. If I come up to something I get stuck on, I note it and move on. I try not to correct my spelling and grammar errors, but end up doing so if it nags me. I also keep the first drafts in case I flip flop on something.

I try to wait at least a day between drafts. My days are usually filled with work so it clears my mind of what I wrote the previous night. If you're on vacation or whatever, you might want to wait longer.

For the second draft, I just try to fill in the blanks, maybe make some corrections (I don't consciously look for them, but if I see one, I'd rather just correct it and forget about it). I go a bit slower and sort of look for glaring inconsistencies in the plot. 

Then I type it out, using the spell- and grammar checker the computer program has- those red lines really bug me. Also, I make sure my story is basically "all there."

When I type my later drafts out and if I won't be near a computer soon, then I'll print it out and pencil in changes and notes in the margins (keeping a printed draft is good in case of computer crashes and your disk gets lost or magnetized). Otherwise, I keep editing on screen. Some of my drafts have certain "theme" like "did I use the same word too many times?" or "description."  

Lots of drafts over time is what improves writing, and you should think of yourself more as a re-writer more than a writer if you want to make anything "worthwhile."


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## foozzzball (Jun 16, 2009)

Don't concur - as usual - because this is implying a universal method.

Also I work differently.

I've only got one or two pieces where I've been going through multiple drafts - typically my method is to write a tiny portion of something, just an introduction, and leave that alone until I've spent so much time obsessing over writing it I have pretty much the whole story worked through in my head. _Then_ I write, and I don't write particularly quickly. If I'm lucky, really lucky, I will get a thousand words an hour out for maybe four hours in a week. This is if I'm writing 'for quality', if I push myself I can and have cranked out upwards of seven and a half thousand words in a day. But this is never, ever, pretty.

My editting cycle is then this very carefully considered thing where I look at every line of my story and try to decide if I love it. And if I don't love it, I change it so I do love it.

I think the key factor here, ultimately, is to put _time and effort_ into what you're writing. The draft process is just another good way to ensure a writer puts in the neccessary effort.


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## M. LeRenard (Jun 16, 2009)

Who drudged this old thing up?
And actually, foozzz, it's not implying a 'universal' method.  I looked back up there, and read that I wrote 'one method'.  Which I believe implies that there are others.
I do think it's a handy method, though.


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## foozzzball (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah, you offer one method for using drafts - but the material prior to that, to me, read like... YOU MUST DRAFT. 

There are many handy methods. It's good to share, just, like. Remember to point out that people need to search out many, many, many methods and try them all out before settling on just one.


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## M. LeRenard (Jun 17, 2009)

Why would I need such a disclaimer when you're always there to give it for me?


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## Vintage (Jun 17, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> words



thank you.  seriously i have run into quite a few who treat a first draft as a final one.  it's embarrassing.

personally, i like (but did not follow on my last project) stephen king's rule of thumb:

your first draft is written with the door closed; your second is written with the door open.

meaning, you don't seek editing advice on a first draft.  wait until the second draft; you should be cranking out those pages with little regard to life, limb or eyesight on your first imo


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## nybx4life (Jun 21, 2009)

Hmm, on editing then:
Consider me a total rookie when it comes to writing, I've never got an idea of how to run with editing (the only thing I know is that you check for spelling/grammar errors).

I mean, I understand editing is needed, but what do you edit, and how do you edit your works?

(I also feel crappy that I've left an entire story in its first draft unedited so far. Maybe this could help)


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## M. LeRenard (Jun 21, 2009)

You edit everything.  Plot, characters, events, dialogue, whatever.
You know... going back to the picture analogy, you want to make sure the final work is going to be a)coherent and b)pretty.  One doesn't really work without the other.  You know, like if you're doing a portrait of someone, and you draw these really pretty eyes with the most intricate detail you can muster, it would still look stupid if you for some reason put them on the person's kneecaps.  That's an extreme example, but you can see how that would be something you'd want to fix in editing, even though the 'writing' (in that case, the drawing of the eyes) for that section is near perfect.  The whole has to still work together.
Usually what I do is I finish a work and then just read through it without stopping.  Then I write down what all gave me pause, and I go back and examine these things and try to fix them so that they no longer give me pause.  Once I feel like everything's coherent, that's when I start screwing with making things prettier (grammar issues, sentence structure, whatever).
I always save sentence-by-sentence tweaking until the very end, because it's kind of a waste of time to do it right away if you know you're going to have to rewrite whole sections to get your logic straight anyway.

That's just how I do it, of course.  Apparently foozzzball up there can whip out a perfect piece in one go, though I guess it takes him forever to do it that way.  I can't do that because I know I forget little details as I go along, so I can't always trust that what I'm writing today completely meshes with what I wrote yesterday.  In the end, you just want to make sure that you've got a whole piece with a natural feel, good characters, interesting and coherent plot, and all those other things you hear about in writing workshops.  Grammar and spelling are just the finishing touches, usually, so that your piece looks professional.


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## nybx4life (Jun 21, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> You edit everything. Plot, characters, events, dialogue, whatever.
> You know... going back to the picture analogy, you want to make sure the final work is going to be a)coherent and b)pretty. One doesn't really work without the other. You know, like if you're doing a portrait of someone, and you draw these really pretty eyes with the most intricate detail you can muster, it would still look stupid if you for some reason put them on the person's kneecaps. That's an extreme example, but you can see how that would be something you'd want to fix in editing, even though the 'writing' (in that case, the drawing of the eyes) for that section is near perfect. The whole has to still work together.
> Usually what I do is I finish a work and then just read through it without stopping. Then I write down what all gave me pause, and I go back and examine these things and try to fix them so that they no longer give me pause. Once I feel like everything's coherent, that's when I start screwing with making things prettier (grammar issues, sentence structure, whatever).
> I always save sentence-by-sentence tweaking until the very end, because it's kind of a waste of time to do it right away if you know you're going to have to rewrite whole sections to get your logic straight anyway.
> ...


 
I see. 
I guess my editing isn't as good as I want it to be, but it'll come with time I guess.

Thank you for answering.
P.S: Every writer is different. I'm sure at least three people I know write like fooz, but that doesn't account for all. I guess I'm just figuring out what's my style.


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## Murphy Z (Jun 21, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> Who drudged this old thing up?



Me!  I'm working on drafts for two short stories (I have two more short stories on hold and my novel on hold), and was looking for some draft pointers.

I'm going back and forth between two stories so I can "forget" about one while I work on the other one.



> How do you edit your works?



Editing just means making it better. Look at your story, how can you improve it?

There's lots of things to look for, here's some off  the top of my head:

Antagonists: can you make them smarter? would they really do that?

Try to find holes in your plots.

Are you repeating a word too much?

Are the characters different in speech?

Is there something missing?


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## foozzzball (Jun 22, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> <...>
> I always save sentence-by-sentence tweaking until the very end, because it's kind of a waste of time to do it right away if you know you're going to have to rewrite whole sections to get your logic straight anyway.
> 
> That's just how I do it, of course.  Apparently foozzzball up there can whip out a perfect piece in one go, though I guess it takes him forever to do it that way.
> <...>



Not _perfect_ perfect. Not unless I write reaaaaally slowly and manage to not get interrupted for the duration. 

Two things I do do, though:

1- Outline. 

I make a lot of notes. A _shitload_ of notes. Sometimes it's snippets of conversation, sometimes it's point by point plot outlines, sometimes it's random descriptive fragments, this is all stuff related to the story but not directly related to what I need to write.

2- Not Push.

If I don't know exactly what the next phrase I want to write is, I do not write it. I do not stumble around searching for what I want to happen, I do not write something just 'to finish'. If I don't know what's coming next I stop writing and I go and lay down and think about it, hard, until I do. (Or alternately I make more notes.) (Occasionally this does result in me having to rewrite, but usually one or two scenes from an incomplete thing rather than a full draft.) (Also I can't actually do this if there's a deadline. I don't have the time freedom.)


Basically, if writing successive drafts is putting in all the effort at the beginning so the rest is smooth sailing, I am a lazy bastard and put in almost no effort at the beginning and get most of my hair-pulling done during 'the rest'. 

Also there is a tendancy to waffle around endlessly while writing. There are an unlimited number of ways to phrase any given thing, or write a given thing. I think the key of editing is not experimenting with each one, or figuring out which way is 'best', there isn't a best; but actually _picking_ one way for whatever artistic reason you have and sticking with it, fixing your material up to better go with it.

This I do, in terms of a lot of sentence-by-sentence tweaking, but the extensive draft-rewrites you're talking about are a little alien to me. And I would note that most of the stuff I've been happy with artistically, I wrote primarily with the above 'ideal' method. At least one short's taken me something like a year to write, what with all the 'stop, think' moments.


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## VÃ¶lf (Jul 3, 2009)

Yeah, I find outlines help me a lot too. 

So they say, I believe the first draft or sometimes called "The Discovery Draft" is the easiest stage of the whole process. I find it best to restrain your inner editor until you can at least get everything you wanted to say down on paper, or a computer. XD

I sometimes write things down even if I can't find the precise wording I want, and just go back to it later in my rewrites. That's where the real work usually begins anyway, since when doing a first draft it's all about the story, the characters, the plot, etc, and not all the grammatical and other sorts of flaws.

One things for sure, though: Pretty much nobody writes perfect the first time.


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## panzergulo (Jul 4, 2009)

Necro-post has become popular. Go figure.

I write first to amuse myself, so the stories I submit tend to be rather unrefined, the best I can do is probably the third or fourth draft, but usually I upload stories after edit/proofreading them only once or twice. I would say it depends heavily what one wants to achieve with writing. I expect never to be published, so I'm not as keen to grind every corner of my stories, how the story looks after a couple drafts is good enough for me.


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