# Does weakness annoy/disgust you?



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 22, 2018)

I dont know how to make this thread without sounding like a jerk.
After some careful thought and consultation, I think it is best that I share with you all some of my story and perspective first. 

As you may, or may not, already know I am pretty gay. Everyone around me has known this ever since I was in highschool. I very well couldve been bullied easily, but I did not let that happen. I wasnt bullied. Instead, I was the bully. Call me a cunt but I'll never give people the opportunity to trod me under their shoes.

After highschool, there was a time when I had to sleep on the streets because I had no parents. I sold my dignity. I had to climb up a mountain to collect heavy tree branches to make charcoal and collect aluminum cans to sell. Sometimes I had to play dirty and shoplift, all so I can survive and get what I want. 

Now, I have a fat savings account. I very well could have some kind of mental problem, (I don't know, I never actively figure that out) not that it matters, knowing will do me more harm than good. I acted properly as society wants me and from that I can say I have a pretty healthy social life and in effect a healthy sex life. I am generally happy and content with my life now and I genuinely wish all people to be the same, but it is so hard to do when most people nowadays are just so weak (I cant find a better term for this, forgive me in advance)

When people openly talk about being handicapped with mental problems or have problems that couldve been resolved if they just "man up", it just annoys me somehow. And I find that it is so hard to empathize, even more so when I have seen some people who are waaaaaaay handicapped (I have a coworker who is blind yet still manages to work in a blue collar job) and I like these kind of people. They show determination and strength, and I like being around these strong people because they drive me to be an even better person. I initially thought this is just me being a jerk so I spoke with some of my friends and learned that I'm not alone in this thought



> I hate weak people too. They bring out a primal instinctual need in me to beat them up and take their lunch money -Garth



So with this I ask, how many of you guys are annoyed/disgusted by people that flaunt their weakness?


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 22, 2018)

I mean, I already knew you were an asshat. But I think this post kinda solidifies it.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 22, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I mean, I already knew you were an asshat. But I think this post kinda solidifies it.


I try my best to tone it down and be reasonable, see you when I get there I guess


----------



## ItsFleco (Mar 22, 2018)

A few years ago, yes. I always felt like anyone who can't improve themselves or get through something deserve the situation that they're in. However, after fighting some bouts of anxiety, depression, and school troubles, I've come to realize that often times, an inability to improve is out of your control. I felt like I could do nothing to get through the depression - my only solace seemed to be the way out of life itself. It's hard to fight something that makes you stop fighting.

Self-betterment is absolutely a solution to nearly personal problem. I acknowledge that I _could_ have done things to fight the depression. However, depression absolutely clouded my mind and had convinced me that I _couldn't_ be strong or "man-up" as you said. Even if someone would have told me that I could, I would definitely have still believed otherwise. Many mental health issues aren't unresolved because they can't be fixed; they're not unresolved because the person doesn't want to fix them; they're not unresolved because the person is too weak to fix them. They're unresolved because they believe that they can't fix them - that they will never be able to fix them. Depression did not break my ability to heal myself, it broke my will to heal myself. You may believe that a person with a broken will, a broken mind, a broken soul is pathetic; I can understand why you would. However, my compassion for these people has come from the awareness that they can be lifted up once again. That they can one day be just as strong as I am now.

Yes, depression can _easily_ be fixed by simply being strong. Unfortunately, depression is the thing that convinces you, to your heart's core, that you cannot be strong.

Surely not everybody with a mental health issue is this way though. Without a doubt, some simply want attention or are too ignorant of the solution - it's a fact that there's variance in how people are affected. I only hope that I can convey why some _don't _"man-up." I think I can see where you come from considering that I've been on both sides of the coin. Whether you still believe that mental weakness is disgusting or not, I would hope you can at least see where I am coming from as well.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 22, 2018)

ItsFleco said:


> A few years ago, yes. I always felt like anyone who can't improve themselves or get through something deserve the situation that they're in. However, after fighting some bouts of anxiety, depression, and school troubles, I've come to realize that often times, an inability to improve is out of your control. I felt like I could do nothing to get through the depression - my only solace seemed to be the way out of life itself. It's hard to fight something that makes you stop fighting.
> 
> Self-betterment is absolutely a solution to nearly personal problem. I acknowledge that I _could_ have done things to fight the depression. However, depression absolutely clouded my mind and had convinced me that I _couldn't_ be strong or "man-up" as you said. Even if someone would have told me that I could, I would definitely have still believed otherwise. Many mental health issues aren't unresolved because they can't be fixed; they're not unresolved because the person doesn't want to fix them; they're not unresolved because the person is too weak to fix them. They're unresolved because they believe that they can't fix them - that they will never be able to fix them. Depression did not break my ability to heal myself, it broke my will to heal myself. You may believe that a person with a broken will, a broken mind, a broken soul is pathetic; I can understand why you would. However, my compassion for these people has come from the awareness that they can be lifted up once again. That they can one day be just as strong as I am now.
> 
> ...


Very insightful thank you.
Just to clarify that I have no problem with people who have mental problems per se,
just those who use said mental problem to define themselves


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Mar 22, 2018)

Bullying people doesn't make you strong, really.

But there are times when I hear of people's problems and I can't help but wonder what I could have accomplished in their place instead. People who have everything but they "feel sad". People who probably have no idea what it's like to have a loaf of bread and tea as the only source of nutrients for two weeks, people who probably don't know what it's like to have a condition that renders you unable to move for weeks at a time at random intervals for over 10 years, people who probably don't know what's it like to live with less than a dollar a day.

Weakness makes me respect people less.


----------



## backpawscratcher (Mar 22, 2018)

The last word I would ever use to describe those who battle mental health issues every single day yet somehow get through it is "weakness".  Quite the opposite.  It takes real actual strength, at least on the level your blind colleague.  And the absolute last thing anyone going through that ever needs to hear is that being open about it is a bad thing.  

Life is tough for all, but some struggle with it more than others.  Listening, offering encouragement, just being there takes very little time.  When people feel alone, let them know they aren't.  And if doing that convinces someone that they are are worthwhile and included I can't think of a better way to spend that time.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 22, 2018)

Seeing as how I got a warning for saying the word "retarded" I'm probably gonna get banned for calling a bully an asshat.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 22, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Seeing as how I got a warning for saying the word "retarded" I'm probably gonna get banned for calling a bully an asshat.


I believe in free speech, bombs away



backpawscratcher said:


> The last word I would ever use to describe those who battle mental health issues every single day yet somehow get through it is "weakness".  Quite the opposite.


I can respect those kind of people, at least they are battling and trying to function in society.  That is a sign of strength indeed


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 22, 2018)

This thread really pushes my buttons because I used to be bullied a whole lot. And recently for the past few years I've been battling with Anxiety and Depression. I was in a really bad spot a year ago. But now I'm starting to get out more and talk to friends and am going to try getting my first job this summer. I am not weak. And neither is people who are so crippled they can't do much at the time. The only people that annoy me are those who are just fine but choose to be lazy. Especially because I have to work so hard to do what they can do easily and they just take it for granted.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 22, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> This thread really pushes my buttons because I used to be bullied a whole lot. And recently for the past few years I've been battling with Anxiety and Depression. I was in a really bad spot a year ago. But now I'm starting to get out more and talk to friends and am going to try getting my first job this summer. I am not weak. And neither is people who are so crippled they can't do much at the time. The only people that annoy me are those who are just fine but choose to be lazy. Especially because I have to work so hard to do what they can do easily and they just take it for granted.


Bullying isnt really my most proud moment of my life, but I was born in a generation where being gay would have turned me into a bloody pulp, it was a necessity albeit a terrible one


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 22, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Bullying isnt really my most proud moment of my life, but I was born in a generation where being gay would have turned me into a bloody pulp, it was a necessity albeit a terrible one


Although I disagree with your actions I do see your reasoning. That's aweful. Thankfully society is moving forward on that issue.


----------



## Tiraer (Mar 22, 2018)

Noone is really born tough to be honest, it's the environment and time making people durable but when the difficulty is overwhelming for their capacity it's when they break down in one way or another. I actually pity those who REALLY require help but I'm just simply out of reach / unqualified. But I agree on the annoyance of people who do it for almost no reason / attention, while not even trying to change for the better.
Attention seekers actually make things worse, that's why many people are afraid of opening up, so they must struggle alone even if it's ineffective and dangerous (suicide as an example)


----------



## Ciderfine (Mar 22, 2018)

Well my take on weakness is someone who has an issue or flaw and doesnt seek to correct it: like getting over a small fear or not pushing forward with there life and still living in a bubble. 
Its very hard for me to answer this as the word has way to many meanings, kill switches, traits and I need a bit clearer picture by what you mean and define as a weakness.


----------



## Simo (Mar 22, 2018)

backpawscratcher said:


> The last word I would ever use to describe those who battle mental health issues every single day yet somehow get through it is "weakness".  Quite the opposite.  It takes real actual strength, at least on the level your blind colleague.  And the absolute last thing anyone going through that ever needs to hear is that being open about it is a bad thing.
> 
> Life is tough for all, but some struggle with it more than others.  Listening, offering encouragement, just being there takes very little time.  When people feel alone, let them know they aren't.  And if doing that convinces someone that they are are worthwhile and included I can't think of a better way to spend that time.



You've really summed it up best, here; can't add much more.

Only that despising weakness, and failing to offer help, is, in itself, a weakness.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Mar 22, 2018)

Spoiler: cw-suicide mention



what's really fucking fun is when you're "weak" as you would call me, but you're also hyper aware that there are people in the world who are supposedly worse off than you but doing more, so in addition to the regular self hatred, you start hating yourself more because there's starving children in Africa but you're just "sad", right, and how pathetic is that? so you don't get help cause you don't feel like you deserve it but you're still hate spiraling to the point of wanting to kill yourself and if you are "strong" enough to talk yourself down from that ledge- cause remember, you're not telling anyone about your problems cause the shame of it all- then that's even more reason not to seek help even though your rational brain is screaming out "dear god, do something!" but emotional brain is just like "look, I'm to too much of a dumb bitch to deal with my tiny problems, let's try to kill ourselves again, you horrible failure of a person." 

real.fucking.fun.



long story short, i hate mental illness not the people who have them. 

((edited to include spoilers since this can be heavy stuff for some people))​


----------



## dragon-in-sight (Mar 22, 2018)

No it doesn't. Weakness can also be a source of streangth, depending on how someone copes with it. In the end no none is perfect, and as much we try there will always be a place where we are powerless or fail as a human being. When someone kows and accepts that, he's also able to accept other peoples weakness, seeing past the veneer people show to others. He may be able to understand that inperfection is no weakness after all but the verry core of what makes us human. People who are disgusted by weakness are often driven by fear of their own imperfection. They lack the courage to confront their own inner deamons and just point to the flaws of others, driven by the fear to be seen in their own weakness. Most the Machos and self-proclaimed strong men don't have real strengh and courage. They may be able to fool others and play their role. But at the inside there is no substance to begin with. When life gets though they often are the first who break.


----------



## WolfoxeCrevan (Mar 22, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> I dont know how to make this thread without sounding like a jerk.
> After some careful thought and consultation, I think it is best that I share with you all some of my story and perspective first.
> 
> As you may, or may not, already know I am pretty gay. Everyone around me has known this ever since I was in highschool. I very well couldve been bullied easily, but I did not let that happen. I wasnt bullied. Instead, I was the bully. Call me a cunt but I'll never give people the opportunity to trod me under their shoes.
> ...


I didn’t fully understand until the last paragraph; “Flaunt”
Yeah, when people just tell everyone they have a weakness or problem and just use it to get out of doing things, it annoys me. 
But if someone was waaaaaaay handicapped and couldn’t find a way to be up at the top, I wouldn’t judge them. It would be a LOT more difficult for them to be so successful.
And the shoplifting thing, you gotta do what you gotta do.


----------



## Casey Fluffbat (Mar 22, 2018)

I don't have problem with handicapped people, I just don't know how to handle or interact with some of them, so I usually stay away unless the situation requires it (it depends on the ailment). If someone has all the resources and capability to solve a mental problem, but doesn't, I don't feel bad. Those people are almost always very negative people that will happily rub off that terrible attitude on people who help them.


----------



## Infrarednexus (Mar 22, 2018)

The weakness that disgusts me are the people who  choose *not* make an effort to toughen up and embrace reality. The world can be a tough place indeed, but if you want to be happy and confident in life you have to make the effort to try fighting the challenges. I'm not talking about mental health, depression, or people on the brink of suicide. I'm talking about people who don't give a shit to make something of themselves and prey on other peoples success to get by. We all have challenges and issues in life we have to overcome and its perfectly reasonable to be afraid and intimidated by them, but unless your willing to accept the fact that you are the only one who can truly triumph over these odds than I have no respect for you. Now before the SJW's come and call me names, let me break it down for you snowflakes short and sweet.

I think your weak if your not even willing to try, and if you can't accept that than I can't help you.


----------



## Zhalo (Mar 22, 2018)

Most people are weak at some point in their lives, but that same person who is weak can also be strong at other times. I'm pretty sure most everyone has had a time in their lives where they felt defeated, depressed, rejected, alone, or anxious those are all weak "states of mind" to be in. I think it is important to remember that if you were feeling one of those ways, how you would want others to act towards you.

Some people are legitimately depressed or legitimately have severe anxiety issues telling those people to "man up" is easier said then done for them. What people with anxiety or depression issues really need is someone to support them, not someone who just says to a depressed person "Oh why don't you just cheer up"

People that go around using their problems as an excuse is a whole nother thing and they are the ones that should just be told to "man up"

You should not feel disgusted by people who are weak, you should feel sympathetic towards them, because more than likely you felt they way they are feeling at some point in your life.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Mar 22, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> When people openly talk about being handicapped with mental problems or have problems that couldve been resolved if they just "man up", it just annoys me somehow. And I find that it is so hard to empathize, even more so when I have seen some people who are waaaaaaay handicapped (I have a coworker who is blind yet still manages to work in a blue collar job) and I like these kind of people


so, i personally haaaaaate these kinds of statements. all this "man-up", "grow a pair" nonsense. not only is it completely fucking dumb (if you think for one second that i wouldn't chop somebody's balls off and sew them on to myself if that would make the anxiety and depression go away, you are dumber than a box of rocks), AND it's something that i've already told myself a thousand fucking times so i _really_ don't need to hear it from some concern trolling little shit, but you don't fucking *know* most of the time what someone else is going through. 

you are literally just assuming that things are that easy for them and they're choosing to self-sabotage. like, yes, whiny dick babies exist and some people will find any excuse not to do anything with their lives. they suck, we can agree on that. but most of the time it's people having legitimate problems that you just don't understand. just because you were able to do something doesn't mean they can. your experience isn't their experience. a depressed person can't just get over it. someone with anxiety can't just stop being anxious. if it was that fucking easy, they wouldn't be having the issue in the damn first place. 

you don't know what is going on in their head. you don't know what their experience with life is. you don't know what they are or are not doing to try and fix the problem. you're just assuming that they're weak and you're superior. and apparently we can't even talk about our issues to try to get you to understand cause then we're being too open and "flaunting" our weaknesses. grrrrrrrrr. 

i have a lot of feels on this- clearly- and i'm sure you weren't meaning to be _this_ big of an ass but i sure as shit read it that way and now i'm just angry posting so i will stop now.​


----------



## SkyboundTerror (Mar 22, 2018)

I'm one of the three who's annoyed "weakness," depending on the case.  I have a terrible habit of berating people who insist on being miserable all the time. I wouldn't say it disgusts me (too strong of a word), but one of my main reasons for being annoyed by it is that it reminds me of myself when I was going through my worst years. I'm still going through tough times, but I'm trying my absolute best to work through it. If I can do it, so can others. 

It's one thing to have problem, rant, and work through them, but it's another entirely to reject all help and effort for self-improvement. Then there's the people who take advantage of their imperfections and expect the world to give them something in return for their suffering. Those are the worst kind of people because they don't try to improve themselves, but choose to blame others for a problem that's their own.

I guess in the end, I'm more annoyed by it because I've seen it constantly within friends and family, and it makes for a very unhappy life.


----------



## soxx (Mar 22, 2018)

I put no because I don’t have time to dwell on others’ weaknesses.  If someone is miserable all the time I distance myself from them.  Ain’t got time.


----------



## defunct (Mar 22, 2018)

I have to say I wholeheartedly agree. It's incredible how often people confuse their unwillingness to put in the effort to do something for an actual inability.
I think a fairly good example of this is depression. Everyone has depression. Absolutely everyone. At least they claim to, or imply it at every left turn. Because it's such a sensitive and protected topic, questioning it is considered near criminal, and people use it as a justification for never doing their homework/doing drugs/never talking to their family/not having a job, the list goes on. inb4 someone replies to this telling me I don't know how hard others have it


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 22, 2018)

Vote me in for yes...

You can choose to be a victim or not.

Survival of the fittest.


----------



## Sarachaga (Mar 22, 2018)

First off, some problems can't be solved by manning up. I mean if someone suffers for a serious health/mental condition, I don't see how it's annoying if they complain about it. I mean that's a bad situation to be in and sometimes there's very little you can do about it.
That being said in most other cases, I kinda agree with you, OP.


----------



## backpawscratcher (Mar 22, 2018)

Nastala said:


> I have to say I wholeheartedly agree. It's incredible how often people confuse their unwillingness to put in the effort to do something for an actual inability.
> I think a fairly good example of this is depression. Everyone has depression. Absolutely everyone. At least they claim to, or imply it at every left turn. Because it's such a sensitive and protected topic, questioning it is considered near criminal, and people use it as a justification for never doing their homework/doing drugs/never talking to their family/not having a job, the list goes on. inb4 someone replies to this telling me I don't know how hard others have it


I don’t have depression.


----------



## Simo (Mar 22, 2018)

It might just be me, but this thread seems ironic, on a furry forum


----------



## Ramjet (Mar 22, 2018)

Sarachaga said:


> First off, some problems can't be solved by manning up. I mean if someone suffers for a serious health/mental condition, I don't see how it's annoying if they complain about it. I mean that's a bad situation to be in and sometimes there's very little you can do about it.
> That being said in most other cases, I kinda agree with you, OP.




The manning up part would be admitting you have a problem and get help...

No shame in that...


----------



## Sagt (Mar 22, 2018)

At least for me, this would have been more agreeable had the OP been more explicit about the type of 'weakness' he was referring to.

The distinction needs to be made between a person who is 'weak' for reasons beyond their control, and a person who is just being pathetic about their situation.


----------



## real time strategist (Mar 22, 2018)

Simo said:


> Only that despising weakness, and failing to offer help, is, in itself, a weakness.


Did you just select the express feelings on weakness button in dwarf fortress?


----------



## Filter (Mar 22, 2018)

Everyone has weaknesses. Whatever happened to "fake it till you make it", or "believe in yourself"? That's what I'd like to know. Self-fulfilling prophecy is a thing.


----------



## shapeless0ne (Mar 22, 2018)

OK, I understand hating people who use their weaknesses and those guys who flaunt it everywhere for all to see so they can get attention without ever trying to get better. but everyone else, what part of your brains did y'all have removed in order to get rid of all your feelings? oh right, your just lying on the interest to boost your own pitiful self confidence.....I see.  after reading some of the posts here I'm having a hard time _not _hating weak folks.
Everyone has weakness in one form or another and that's it, unless you've undergone lobotomy to make yourself a organic robot. so think about it, _why_ are you annoyed by someone Else's weakness?


----------



## Simo (Mar 22, 2018)

real time strategist said:


> Did you just select the express feelings on weakness button in dwarf fortress?



No, but I did press a button and now Sonic is crying!

*comforts hedgehog*


----------



## ResolutionBlaze (Mar 22, 2018)

I wouldn't so much say I am disgusted by weakness.

Disgust is the sort of feeling when it isn't mere annoyance; it's the desire to burn it with fire, to reduce it to ashes, so to speak.

I'd say the weakness I despise more than the weak person, in some cases.  Often times I despise weak people, but there are some who have a genuine reason for their weakness, and have genuine justification to not seek out anything else.  Those people seriously need help to overcome their shortcomings.

But when people_ capitalize_ on weakness, that's when it hits my short fuse.  Because at that point you're seeking a handout.

I've rarely spoken on things that have happened to me, and when I do, it's typically relevant and isn't done to get sympathy or empathy, at least not that I am aware of.  I don't do that to garnish support.

Often times those who seem weak aren't weak at all.  And they will continue to see themselves as weak until their resentment for their own existence outweighs their desire to live, or worse yet, it outweighs their desire to let others live.  While they say they are weak, they are strong when they desire to be.  Humans are unbelievably adaptable, we're able to adapt to a variety of conditions, mentally, physically, psychologically... but when we can't, or we lose the desire to, that's how weak people commit violent acts, either upon themselves or other people.


----------



## MsRavage (Mar 22, 2018)

nah weakness doesn't bother me. for every weakness, someone has a strength. We are not all strong at everything we do....that's balance of the universe for you. I think its a good way to be humble....
now...overly arrogant jerks...they piss me off.


----------



## PolarizedBear (Mar 25, 2018)

Generally don't care for weakness, so yes.  Grew up gay in a pretty bad part of the world so I had to be tough to not get swept under the rug by others.  I refuse to take the role of a victim, I'd rather figure out any weaknesses I have and stomp them out as opposed to cherishing them.


----------



## LuciantheHugmage (Mar 25, 2018)

No. For me, the only time a weakness is truly a weakness is when you let it become one. There's a reason we humans are generally social creatures. By gathering people who support us, we can overcome our weaknesses. By undergoing personal effort, we can turn that weakness into strength.

Besides, if we're all strength, we have no way of empathizing with others, because we don't see their pain unless we understand our own.


----------



## Saiko (Mar 25, 2018)

“Weakness” as in having mental health problems isn’t a problem beyond itself. You can’t get mad at someone for catching the flu, and you can’t get mad at someone for having depression. What you can take issue with is that person very clearly avoiding improvement and wallowing in their condition. Even more so you can take issue with their partner and loved ones enabling that wallowing by letting them sleep 16 hours a day unemployed. This kind of behavior leaves very little room for sympathy.


----------



## Troj (Mar 25, 2018)

Depends on how you define "weakness."

Nobody is perfect.  It's stupid, hypocritical, cruel, and pointless to sneer at people for having natural frailties that they didn't choose. My feeling is that people who are judgmental in that way will eventually "get theirs."

I have deep respect for people who acknowledge their vulnerabilities and frailties, or who recognize that they are flawed, imperfect, weak, or even, broken in certain areas, and are genuinely trying to do the best they can with what they have.

Wannabe-toughguys and defensive cynics, meanwhile, are just pathetic and sad, their bluster is clearly just a cover for their deep insecurity, fear, and pain.

I have very little patience for snowflakes or whiners who appear to _enjoy _being perpetual victims. I particularly hate bullies, back-stabbers, and jerks who will turn around and play the victim when called out.

While I realize that what is deeply painful for one person may be a relatively-trivial trouble for another, and vice versa, and understand that our expectations and sensitivities adjust based on our current circumstances, personally, it really annoys me people bellyache about something I had to endure without having the luxury to bitch.

On this last note, the other day, a kid wrote into the local newspaper complaining of being bullied by his classmates and teachers at his school.  Normally, I'm solidly in the corner of the bullied, the marginalized, and the ostracized, but this kid's letter rubbed me totally the wrong way. I came away with intense feelings of contempt, disdain, and disgust. In the letter, he described himself as a "victim" (_barf)_ and just generally whined and carried on in a way _I_ wouldn't have been allowed to---hell, if I'd lodged a measured, controlled, totally-emotionless complaint about being bullied, I _still_ probably would've had a double-dose of bullying to look forward to for my trouble! Much of this probably says more about me than about the kid, I realize.


----------



## lupi900 (Mar 25, 2018)

Wait why are you bringing up special needs or mentally ill?. How is this even a argument when switching off mentally is a massive issue?. So I'm subjectively a pussy because i can't grow a pair when I'm having a off day. 

But who cares when in your views I'm junkie because i like getting buzzed on alcohol sometimes. Listening to music on my PC in a my area of the house.


----------



## Illuminaughty (Mar 26, 2018)

I don't judge people for things outside of their control, period. And even if you do, I don't think it's ever fair to judge someone when they're at their lowest. It's easy to look in from the outside and say someone should pick themselves up and dust themselves off- but you aren't them. You can't experience their experience, and therefor you can't make an accurate judgement on how hard or how easy their situation is for them to navigate.

As long as people are doing their best, not being rude and terrible to others, and not hurting anyone, it's not my or anyone else's business to judge them. Maybe you're tall enough to wade through deep problems based on your disposition or past experiences, but someone else might only be able to barely tread water. Instead of being irritated with them, belittling them, or pushing them further down for struggling, why not extend a hand to help them through? At the very least, don't make their situation worse than it already is by projecting your personal negativity onto them for things they have no control over.

No one wants to go through the grinder. But no one has a choice when it happens. That's no one's fault.


----------



## SlyRiolu (Mar 26, 2018)

The weakness I don't like is when it's not shown and there's no help given and if not, people don't adapt. For example, I've been bullied for years and cried over it but after a few more years I got into a fight with a kid for bullying me and then a realization hit me when the prinipal called me in and said along the line "if there are bullies than you should tell them first."
      Then after that I turned to every bully that came across me and provoked them to bully more and more until I bite them in the butt and tell on them. I don't get emotionally hurt, they probably stop, and I get the satisfaction that I got back at them but I still check on them by asking others if they're up to somthing. I would've still been that sensitive child thinking that I could do nothing to get back and have some justice but now I do.
     To sum it up I think people should actually say that they need help instead of being silent cowards.


----------



## PolarizedBear (Mar 26, 2018)

Weakness is a broad term so I think the thread got a little all over the place.

But the question along the lines of "Do you hate people who flaunt their weakness" I'd say could be rounded out to *"People who give up or use their weakness as an excuse"*

IE- People who completely surrender to said weakness and wear it as a badge of pity as opposed to actively doing something to improve themselves or overcome their weakness.  Even in a physical or mental sense people can figure out ways to do the things they enjoy to some degree.




Like this guy, its damn inspiring to see someone push to do something they love in spite of a physical setback.

TLDR: Humanity is amazing in its determination to overcome obstacles life sets before it.


----------



## Sindenbock (Mar 27, 2018)

Here's the thing: If you have a mental illness, and use it as an excuse to be lazy, self-pitying,  whiny, arrogant, and manipulative , or just glorify your own mental illness, then yes, you are weak. If you have a mental illness, acknowledge it as one, try and find ways to live with it without actively trying to ruin peoples lifes in the process, or trying to get actual treatment,  then, imo, you are a very strong person. I really rather label someone who knows how to function with what life gave them a strong person, rather than those using it as an excuse to be 'weak.'

I mean take chris-chan for instance. He used his problems as an excuse, and thought he deserved anything just because he is autistic. You think he is a 'strong'  person?


----------



## Inkblooded (Mar 27, 2018)

i hate weakness because i am weak and i hate myself


----------



## quoting_mungo (Mar 27, 2018)

I think this entire mindset builds on a faulty presupposition: that weakness is automatically a negative trait. This is something we're socialized into, but I don't think it's a universal truth that automatically follows. We're all strong and weak in different areas. Strength is not the best tool for the job in every situation. 

I can see the argument for looking sideways at people who exploit diagnoses, use them to excuse antisocial behavior, and similar. I would hesitate to call that weakness, per se, but it's not behavior I would like to encourage. 

But I wouldn't lump people who give up in with that group. Given long enough dripping water can wear through solid rock. Reaching a breaking point is not something that automatically speaks ill of a person. Not everyone has the same resilience. Not everyone is affected the same way by any given situation. Things I shrug off can be too much for someone else, and something they think isn't a big deal might be for me. Someone reaching a point where they say "no, I can't fight this anymore" is not automatically to their discredit, but it does suggest their support system is lacking. Nobody should _need_ to hit that point.


----------



## slyslays444 (Mar 27, 2018)

This thread interests me, so I guess I'll just pop in with what I gotta say, and if anyone reads it and learns something or wants to continue the conversation, that would be welcomed. * Sorry in advance, because this is long!*

Weakness is a subjective thing, as are strengths; they vary from one person to another, and that's a given. I vote that no, weakness does not annoy or disgust me; of course, to an extent it does not. Everyone has their boundaries, and I have always been patient and understanding, personally. Other people have shorter fuses, or project their own feelings or experiences onto those who have given up on their own circumstances. 

While one person has been through some tough things in life hearing the misfortune of others who have some kind of persistent weakness holding them back, might just frustrate them because they dealt with their struggles and are thriving. Some people are able to confront their issues face to face without lingering or dwelling on the issue. And congrats to them, that's really nice! I would just hope they try to have some understanding for others who struggle, or for those for whom the answer is not as "black and white". 

And it's understandable. However, some people get stuck at a troublesome point and have no clue what to do other than focus on it, but have no idea how to tackle it. I think what's important, is that one tries. Makes some kind of attempt. Because as long as you are trying, you are learning, and getting somewhere. It might not be very far ahead, but it's something. No matter how much time it takes to confront an issue, or how it's spaced out, what's important is that you're working toward a better future. Determination towards fixing things, I wouldn't say is a weakness, or even fixing the issue at hand. Because it wouldn't be so much a weakness if it's being fixed- think about it. I think, it's okay to embrace weakness, just as we embrace the bad things we have done, or embrace the past or our mistakes, or embrace who we are. But there is a very obvious line between embracing or acknowledging a weakness, and letting it consume you, and using it to label yourself. There's a major difference! 

As far as depression, or brandishing mental handicaps, physical handicaps, etc: 

It's a messy topic. Incredibly messy. 

Unfortunately, there are some (and for some reason, a very vocal, and immature bunch of) people who have not much better to do other than sit around and focus on these things- as this becomes the sole extent of their identity. These people call it "depression" and "anxiety", and glorify it to the point of narcissism. For every bump in the road, they point the finger and explain their shortcomings through these issues.. Which do seriously hinder those afflicted. And now, many sufferers of these issues may just keep their mouth shut and carry shame while they also juggle trying to find a system that works. Those who stay quiet are the exact type of person you may admire for not complaining and achieving great things, because they have more to worry about other than a label to confine them to a set of symptoms, by which they are plagued daily. Trust me, lol. They don't need a reminder. I say this out of both education in the topic, and (without details) experience.

And what's worse, is that you can't quite tell these people who have happily slapped a label on themselves that they are "wrong". Why? Because psychological disorders and the like range from: actual imbalances in the brain, to having an extended melancholy that just won't shake. That's the problem with psychology. It's incredibly hard to measure and determine with full certainty. Anyone could sit in a room with a psychologist for an hour, and work up every sad little thing that's happened to them, and walk out with a diagnosis of severe depression. 

And for conversation's sake. Recently at school, the choir club or whatever it is (which tends to have a lot of self-pitying kids even more than what I recall in middle school), has been promoting this rather ambiguous thing for the blanket term of "mental illness, ranging from depression to autism" that involves having a signup sheet, and putting your initials, or the initials of someone you know who suffers from mental illness. The whole thing really bothers me. I can't exactly say why, without seeming like a bad person. I suppose I'm more private in my ways, than to air out my dirty laundry and make sure everyone knows how I struggle. "Mental illness" isn't something to be proud of- however, nor ashamed of. In my opinion, it's something you embrace, work on, and then be proud of your achievements despite what your handicap/weakness/mental illness is. That's where pride should be. 

But in a way, OP, I agree fullheartedly with the disgust you harbor toward "weakness", though we may not agree on the same exact type. I would be lying if I said I did not harbor utmost hatred toward those who think it's okay to be rude or nasty to others because they "have a bad past". While I struggle to understand everyone has their way of coping with their inner conflicts and yes, weaknesses, I can not stand to be around people who lash out at others, treat people poorly, just because they have had something terrible happen to them. There's where I say "grow up". So I'm guilty as well, lol. I have been through things in life, been really low, whatever, who cares lol and never once have I gone out of my way to cause others misery or upset. 

Also, what's unfortunate is that some people are too immature to address this topic appropriately without becoming overly emotional. I personally have emotional involvement in the topic (then again, who doesn't) and wouldn't bother to stoop to such a level to push my opinion. This is a topic deserving of ethos, not pathos.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Mar 28, 2018)

slyslays444 said:


> Anyone could sit in a room with a psychologist for an hour, and work up every sad little thing that's happened to them, and walk out with a diagnosis of severe depression.


I can't say what you're basing this on, but it does not jive with my experiences with mental health care. I have days where it's all I can do to drag myself out of bed to eat, and I believe my diagnosis is (uncertainty comes mainly from having trouble recalling what was said last) "moderate depression". That's not to say you couldn't hypothetically lie to or manipulate a psychologist in order to get a diagnosis, but I doubt talking about sad things for an hour is what gets you a "severe depression" diagnosis - a lot of what goes into the severity judgment is how it impacts your everyday life. Hell, an hour hasn't been enough for the ones I've seen to want to make a call on diagnosis at all.


----------



## solacedelayed (Mar 28, 2018)

Some great reading material for this thread:

The Cult of Pharmacology by Richard DeGrandpre

Yea.. Enjoy.. -Walks away whistling-


----------



## Katook (Mar 28, 2018)

Haven't gone through replies past the first page yet so forgive me for that 

But I can see what you're trying to get at. One thing that bothers me is when people have self-defeating attitudes but I can't judge them harshly since I sympathise with their struggles considering my own mental health.

It's hard when you want to help others help themeves but they just aren't in a place to help themselves yet.


----------



## slyslays444 (Mar 28, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> I can't say what you're basing this on, but it does not jive with my experiences with mental health care. I have days where it's all I can do to drag myself out of bed to eat, and I believe my diagnosis is (uncertainty comes mainly from having trouble recalling what was said last) "moderate depression". That's not to say you couldn't hypothetically lie to or manipulate a psychologist in order to get a diagnosis, but I doubt talking about sad things for an hour is what gets you a "severe depression" diagnosis - a lot of what goes into the severity judgment is how it impacts your everyday life. Hell, an hour hasn't been enough for the ones I've seen to want to make a call on diagnosis at all.


I appreciate you read what I wrote. I'm sorry that perhaps my post may have offended at all, if it did- not at all my intentions, friend.  and, I am grateful for your input! There are, of course, differences between psychologists and sometimes some are different in how they diagnose things, and could depend on the area- I know where I've been, had to have not been one of the best mental health care facilities, and that could have a lot to do with my misjudgment. I apologize!
To explain my experience, I met with my psychiatrist for thirty minutes. She wrote up a prescription, poked fun at my weight and ushered me out of her office. All on the day I was introduced to her. But it was a fast diagnosis- now, I wasn't lying, but anyone convincing enough would have been treated the same way. When I asked to be taken off the medication for "severe" depression, she was rude and hesitant and to do so. I can assure you it was not out of concern, because I was clearly of sound mind and in a much better place when I asked to stop treatment. That's actually a bit scary to me. I know it sounds sarcastic and uneducated (now that I reread it, yes, it is), I mean to call attention not so much to people who may exaggerate symptoms, but psychologists/psychiatrists who are so eager to diagnose these things. Therefore, if one has a goal in mind and gets the right psychologist, they'll walk out with the exact diagnosis they want, if they want it. Because it simply cannot be easily measured, except by word of the patient. Yes, psychologists want to help, but some, I must chalk it up to being in the department for the money. IMO, the system is twisted, but rightfully so. You can't ask a patient who's having issues if they're lying. That's bad too. 
My judgement in writing that bit was poor- I can say that there are some people out there who will work these things up and get a real diagnosis, though, simply to say they have a disorder that excuses poor behavior. I mean no harm to anyone who actually suffers from mental illness, nor am I here to misjudge anyone's struggle- it isn't my business, but I acknowledge attention-seekers exist and in my own life, I know who they are. I don't treat them any differently, I still take them seriously. But I do get frustrated, because it becomes a label they're excited to show off like they're special. My stance remains pretty solid on that one.


----------



## Shadow of Bucephalus (Apr 5, 2018)

Lots of interesting replies and observations already made.
I'm still pondering making a more comprehensive post, but not quite sure it's worth the effort.  Not that the topic isn't valid, but because I'm mired in it personally, and it's very difficult to write from outside the box in a logical, believable manner, w/o putting my hoof,,, *ahems*, foot in mine-own mouth.  

When weakness is used as a shield by anyone, to prevent them from surmounting said weakness?  That disgusts me.  Would I expect a blind person to become a pilot?  No.  Would I expect a legless person to 'Run' a marathon?  Again, no.
Yet some have managed to do exactly this.  That's impressive, but well beyond the reach of most people afflicted with those two conditions.  That's not saying all those other people who didn't become pilots, or who didn't run a marathon, are 'Weak'.

I've met many people throughout my life who use weakness as a shield.  Most were bullies/abusive adults, doing their damnedest to keep their weakness hidden from society, by acting-out and committing violence/abuse on others they felt they could manipulate.  Bullies disgust me more than those they prey upon, but it IS up to those who are being bullied to stand-up and hold their own ground if they ever expect to stop being bullied.  That's the simple pecking-order in any society, animal or human.

I'll keep thinking about this.  Might write more later, and offer up some examples to back-up my own perspectives.

Thanks for giving my brain cells a *Kick-start*, but this is very delicate ground to tread upon for me/some...


----------



## Manek Iridius (Apr 6, 2018)

ItsFleco said:


> Yes, depression can _easily_ be fixed by simply being strong. Unfortunately, depression is the thing that convinces you, to your heart's core, that you cannot be strong.



I just need clarification: how can something be fixed by being strong if that thing prevents you from being strong? I'm legitimately confused here.


----------



## Some Moron (Apr 7, 2018)

That's a strange question...


----------



## Yakamaru (Apr 18, 2018)

Short answer: No.

Time to edit..
Long answer: No, I do not find them annoying/disgusting.

Being human, being.. Mortal means you have to take with you all the pros and cons, weaknesses and strengths with it. And with it comes all the flaws, cons and weaknesses you could possibly think of, and in every conceivable combination.

Weaknesses gives us something to be vulnerable about/for. And, perhaps more importantly, something to relate to. Being alive IMO is a weakness in and of itself, but that does not translate to being alive is negative.

A weakness can be a blessing, a curse, or both. It's all in your personal take on it.


----------



## zenmaldita (Apr 18, 2018)

Yep. But never in others. People try to be strong most of the time, and sometimes being strong is tiring, and people get tired.
Problems vary from person to person. If a certain problem is not the limit for some, it may be for others.
Weakness annoys me because it's mine.


----------



## Boured (Apr 18, 2018)

Weakness does annoy me, but for a good reason. I hate seeing people being sad, pessimistic, angry, etc. So I help help them through it, there is nothing I love more than making someone happy if I can.

I get people have bad days, I have them too, but I try my best to help them.


----------



## Skychickens (Apr 18, 2018)

...yes and no. I am often frustrated when people give up and don't try, or use conditions as excuses and crutches. "Oh I can't do x y or z because of anxiety!" 

...I also have anxiety. Multiple different kinds diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Multiple personality disorders. (Avoidant being one of them. I have literally locked myself in a basement for a week before. When I get overwhelmed I tend to lock myself into closets. It's not as bad as it used to be, thank you therapy.) I went through therapy. I went through different medications and I worked my ass off to feign normalcy. I had a roomie that had many of the same issues I do and she spent the majority of her time laying on the couch whining for everyone else to do things for her. Couldn't keep a job because she used it all too much as a crutch. I couldn't _stand_ living with her. She lived off of being babied by her parents and couldn't handle the idea that someone wanted her to work towards getting better rather than people just doing things for her. 

It's hard and I know it. I still am bad at it and I still have to practice talking to people. I have mild panic attacks all the time just trying to ask my manager for days off or to do something slightly against what policy says because I know it will make things better. 

At the same time, I see weakness as an opportunity to improve upon oneself so I can't really hate it. What I hate is when people waste such an opportunity. Which...kinda cycles back on itself doesn't it...So when I see the girls at work telling me they can't do this that or the other thing because of something trivial, I just want to be like "and this is why I earned full time and raises in a job where they don't DO that. Because I didn't let my diagnoses stop me."

...and then again my fiancee is constantly telling me to take a freaking chill pill and stop basically being Alexander Hamilton...


----------



## AppleButt (Apr 26, 2018)

My go to answer is no.

It can be annoying when people use it as an excuse too much.  But are any of us really as strong as we say we are?  Weakness is only human.

I personally feel like a lot of the edgelords out there who think weak people should go and die are hiding some form of weakness themselves.

Obviously there stronger people than others.  I don’t personally have the strength to be someone like Bill Gates or the like.

I’m not the strongest person there is. I have problems and am too weak to go to a therapist right now to try to sort them out.  I probably have some form mental problem, but I can’t say because I’m not diagnosed.

However, it’s no excuse to sit on my butt all day.  So I have a job right now, and I push through despite how drained I am a lot.  

I think the important thing is to just try.  


I also happen to personally think we should go out of our way a little more than we do to help the weaklings of society.  We don’t have to give them all kinds of handouts and give them a life of luxury without working for it.  However, I certainly don’t think it’s the right thing to do to claim “survival of the fittest” and completely toss the weaklings to the side, either.  

That’s just my opinion, though.


----------



## Haru Totetsu (Apr 26, 2018)

I think it depends on the kind of "weakness" really. Like giving in to peer pressure is an annoying and generally disgusting weakness, as it just ruins your life and doesn't even benefit those you're trying to please nearly as much as they think it does. But everything else that could be called a weakness? Not really. Being physically disabled or having a mental disability isn't something that would annoy or disgust me. Heck the only part of such conditions that does bother me is when people try to use them to get away with things. I've seen a man use the fact he's in a wheelchair as a excuse for him being racist...so that'd the only disgusting part about that, but it has nothing to do with the apparent "weakness" and more to do with them having an undesirable personality trait.


----------



## TrishaCat (Apr 26, 2018)

Weakness can be annoying in the sense that it can be very easy to say "you need to toughen up" to other people. But its important to have emphathy and care for those who have trouble dealing with their problems and assist them in order to help them overcome them, as different people have different capabilities when it comes to dealing with and handling their daily life's issues.

One has to understand that people aren't the same, and their abilities to cope and handle their lives varies from person to person. Its not as simple as just telling someone to toughen up or help themselves a lot of the time.





Rimna said:


> But there are times when I hear of people's problems and I can't help but wonder what I could have accomplished in their place instead. People who have everything but they "feel sad". People who probably have no idea what it's like to have a loaf of bread and tea as the only source of nutrients for two weeks, people who probably don't know what it's like to have a condition that renders you unable to move for weeks at a time at random intervals for over 10 years, people who probably don't know what's it like to live with less than a dollar a day.
> 
> Weakness makes me respect people less.


But just because other people have it worse doesn't mean someone doesn't have problems of their own. This kind of thinking makes it harder for people to get help and/or improve themselves because it just talks down on people for their problems rather than encouraging them to overcome their problems. Someone suffering worse doesn't make someone else's suffering non-existant.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 26, 2018)

This is meandering towards off-topic, but I get the feeling that a lot of people on the "weakness annoys" me side of things don't really get what being "weak" is like. They see someone who doesn't have a lot of "socially acceptable" hardships in life aside from mental illness and can't really fathom how the mental illness could cause so many problems. It can't be _that_ bad right? Starving children in Africa and all that. So I wanted to leave these links here. It's a rather informative account of depression from the person who did the Hyperbole and a Half web comic thing. It's just about depression, and obviously won't map on to everyone's experience with mental illness, but I think it sheds some light on stuff that can be hard for normative people to really internalize. I particularly like the fish metaphor she uses in part 2. Anyway, the links:
hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com: Hyperbole and a Half: Adventures in Depression
hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com: Hyperbole and a Half: Depression Part Two


----------



## Zrcalo (Apr 26, 2018)

one thing I dont like is people who let others push them around, and continue to do so even if you help them.

I cant even begin to tell you how many times I've rescued someone from some bad situation, only for them to just fall back into another similar one. All the people I've encountered who do this are pretty spineless, and prefer just to be told what to do, even if it's to the absolute detriment of themselves.


----------



## Simo (Apr 26, 2018)

One weakness would seem to be the need to act tough, to suppress emotion, and hide behind a facade of this or that kind of superiority: intellectual, moral, physical. And while there might be a short term satisfaction in such a psychological game, or life script, a role that one plays: I have to wonder, if it is an especially helpful, adaptive behavior. 

And here I am, sounding just like what I have groused about!


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 27, 2018)

ItsFleco said:


> A few years ago, yes. I always felt like anyone who can't improve themselves or get through something deserve the situation that they're in. However, after fighting some bouts of anxiety, depression, and school troubles, I've come to realize that often times, an inability to improve is out of your control. I felt like I could do nothing to get through the depression - my only solace seemed to be the way out of life itself. It's hard to fight something that makes you stop fighting.
> 
> Self-betterment is absolutely a solution to nearly personal problem. I acknowledge that I _could_ have done things to fight the depression. However, depression absolutely clouded my mind and had convinced me that I _couldn't_ be strong or "man-up" as you said. Even if someone would have told me that I could, I would definitely have still believed otherwise. Many mental health issues aren't unresolved because they can't be fixed; they're not unresolved because the person doesn't want to fix them; they're not unresolved because the person is too weak to fix them. They're unresolved because they believe that they can't fix them - that they will never be able to fix them. Depression did not break my ability to heal myself, it broke my will to heal myself. You may believe that a person with a broken will, a broken mind, a broken soul is pathetic; I can understand why you would. However, my compassion for these people has come from the awareness that they can be lifted up once again. That they can one day be just as strong as I am now.
> 
> ...


Someone clearly doesn't have actual depression. I think you may have just been sad. Actual depression is an illness that doesn't go away. No amount of "being strong" will fix it.


----------



## Cawdabra (Apr 27, 2018)

Skychickens said:


> ...yes and no. I am often frustrated when people give up and don't try, or use conditions as excuses and crutches. "Oh I can't do x y or z because of anxiety!"
> 
> ...I also have anxiety. Multiple different kinds diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Multiple personality disorders. (Avoidant being one of them. I have literally locked myself in a basement for a week before. When I get overwhelmed I tend to lock myself into closets. It's not as bad as it used to be, thank you therapy.) I went through therapy. I went through different medications and I worked my ass off to feign normalcy. I had a roomie that had many of the same issues I do and she spent the majority of her time laying on the couch whining for everyone else to do things for her. Couldn't keep a job because she used it all too much as a crutch. I couldn't _stand_ living with her. She lived off of being babied by her parents and couldn't handle the idea that someone wanted her to work towards getting better rather than people just doing things for her.


Your roomie reminds me of myself. I'm not sure if it's because I've given up on trying or if I'm really just a lazy piece of shit. It really doesn't help towards my suicidal thoughts.


----------



## Pipistrele (Apr 27, 2018)

People differ, limits of physical and emotional pain differ too. I do get annoyed when said weakness brings the worst out of people (clinginess, manipulation, etc.), but holding something against people just because they don't fit into your personal expectations of "manliness" is worse in my opinion.

Can't agree more with @zenmaldita , really. I hate feeling weak, and I'm always trying my best to deal with my problems instead of lamenting them.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 27, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Actual depression is an illness that doesn't go away.


This might go off topic but I believe the term "depression" has been skewed due to overusage. Like the word "Nazi" people don't really know what it really means and they're doing a disservice to actual Holocausts victims.

Depression was a term used on people with chemical imbalances in the brain that causes them to not function properly in society. Now due to it being tossed around we have to distinguish between depression (aka normal sadness) to clinical depression.


----------



## Pipistrele (Apr 27, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Depression was a term used on people with chemical imbalances in the brain that causes them to not function properly in society. Now due to it being tossed around we have to distinguish between depression (aka normal sadness) to clinical depression.


It's the other way around, really - depression was a common description for a particular mood, and then eventually became a short term for major depressive disorder. Well, at least that's how it was in Europe, dunno about the other regions.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 27, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> This might go off topic but I believe the term "depression" has been skewed due to overusage. Like the word "Nazi" people don't really know what it really means and they're doing a disservice to actual Holocausts victims.
> 
> Depression was a term used on people with chemical imbalances in the brain that causes them to not function properly in society. Now due to it being tossed around we have to distinguish between depression (aka normal sadness) to clinical depression.


That happens a lot with mental health terminology. "Oh I'm a little depressed today" " You're so crazy" "what are you, bipolar?" People say the words without understanding the meaning behind them. We are kind of shitty at talking about our moods, feelings, and mental health, so much so that even in a psych setting the therapist has to confirm what the client means. 

But just because people like to use some terms rather flippantly that doesn't mean we should dismiss people with the actual condition either. I believe that the more open and honest conversations we can have about mental illness without getting shut down or shat on, the better things will get.​


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 27, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> -snip-​


I can see your points. I didn't say to dismiss them but the distinction must still be made.

There was a kid who daydream like every normal kids does but the parents are quick to exaggerate and had the kid on cocktails of drugs for "attention deficit disorder"

Depression is a mental disorder and alot (if not all) of people are quick to wear mental disorder like a crown for attention or to get their way

A distinction is reaaaally important.
Otherwise there will be people like me who can't tell if they're just feeling the normal kind of sadness or serious mental disorder.

I know what you'll say... "But Marazhu! Regardless.. we should still treat sad people and people with depression the same"

Well that depends on the person, for me, if you're a complete stranger and you said you're sad, sorry but I don't give a fuck. I'm going to reserve my energy for people I know, care or love. I'm not a fake person

But if you're a complete stranger using the term depression for regular sadness, then I must give you all my attention and time to make sure you don't end up killing yourself.


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 27, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> I can see your points. I didn't say to dismiss them but the distinction must still be made.
> 
> There was a kid who daydream like every normal kids does but the parents are quick to exaggerate and had the kid on cocktails of drugs for "attention deficit disorder"
> 
> ...


I mentioned dismissal since this whole thread was basically you dismissing mental illness as "weakness" that should be met with disdain. You don't differentiate between sad people and people with depression. You don't make exceptions for real mental problems. You even think it's annoying for people to talk about their potential illnesses because you think of it as "flaunting". So yeah, you're dismissing people like me because you think I'm lying and can't bother yourself to hear otherwise.​
And I wouldn't say that we should treat standard "sad" people and people with clinical depression the same. They aren't the same and don't need the same kind of help.
But you also can't tell just by looking at a person what is going on in their head. And while you don't need to drop everything to go help a stranger in need, you also don't have to go out of your way (say by making a huge forum post about how you see them as weak) to demean them. 

Which is why I said it would help if we could have open and honest conversations about mental illness. The more we can talk about it and learn about what's really going on and come to an understanding, the less issues there's going to be with people misusing terms and confusing people like you. But we can't have these conversations if one side is sticking their fingers in their ears and telling us that we just need to "man up". Those cocktails of unnecessary drugs and crown wearing dickheads will start to subside if we actually try to educate ourselves instead of just throwing the baby out with the bath water.​


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 27, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> say by making a huge forum post about how you see them as weak


I have made a statement that the discussion on depression was off topic but your point still stands

That's all my take on depression. I stand corrected


----------



## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 27, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> I have made a statement that the discussion on depression was off topic but your point still stands
> 
> That's all my take on depression. I stand corrected


Sorry. Didn't mean to derail things. As mentioned earlier, I have a lot of feels about this kind of topic. 
And I get that you can't really stop yourself from being annoyed by what you're annoyed by anymore than I can will my depression and anxiety away. But framing and context matter a lot. It's one thing to be annoyed by or ill equipped to deal with someone else's issues. It can be really hard and exhausting sometimes. But it's another thing to actively put them down for something they can't control either. ​


----------



## aloveablebunny (Apr 27, 2018)

AppleButt said:


> My go to answer is no.
> 
> It can be annoying when people use it as an excuse too much.  But are any of us really as strong as we say we are?  Weakness is only human.
> 
> ...



A good summarization of my thoughts on the matter.


----------



## aloveablebunny (Apr 27, 2018)

"Weakness" is a label we have designed to stick on others who cannot perform up to some set of standards that we have made to base them against. Labels are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Apr 27, 2018)

Weakness, or impotence, is a state of mind in which bemoaning the negative and refusing to change things for the better are taken hand-in-hand. It denotes a lack of will and motivation; a lack of personal drive for self-improvement.

For that, I have a much healthier respect for a triple-limb amputee who can get up in the morning and prepare to run a marathon than I do for the whelp who cries about the injustices of the world yet has no desire to fix the problems they perceive.


----------



## Simo (Apr 27, 2018)

Only in bears. :V


----------



## Gronix (Apr 27, 2018)

I say yes, 'weakness' does annoy me, whether it's me, or someone around me *that matters*, someone I interact with regularly.
But it's only that, the weakness, not the person _and I'm excluding any that can't be helped at all_, but that is rarely the case where this conversation would pop up.

I have a habit of looking at things as objectively as I can, and I leave feelings out of questions as much as possible when expressing what I think.
Whatever someone may have as a 'weakness' they should be aware of it, and recognize it. When someone faces their own flaws the natural response should be some kind of wish, or will to deal with it, improve,  eliminate, whatever that would lead to a better situation, and everyone should realize that wearing our flaws as badges, or letting them control our entire lives is self destructive.
I've had friends with very severe depression, and I know very well that it's 'not that easy', and I never claim it is easy, but if you don't help yourself to this degree at least, if you don't look in the imaginary mirror, then no one, no doctors, family, friends, or your own self can help yourself.

I'm lucky in a sense, because I despise being pitied, I would be ashamed if I influenced anyone's opinion of me with my schizophrenia whether positively or negatively.

Nobody is perfect, but nothing justifies sitting idly to your own suffering. If it's *really* something that can't be done anything about, then again, not the slightest of reasons to eat yourself over it, time to move on, just do your best, nobody decent will judge your slip-ups when you're doing all you can. It *might* be _annoying, _but no reason ever to call anyone out on it.

Back to emphasize what I started with, I don't hate the person, I don't hate anyone, for that I can only hate people's specific traits and conditions.
If it's myself, or someone that matters to me, then whatever these flaws are, they will bother me more or less, there's no dancing around it, I can let it go, I can appreciate efforts, I can love the person, but the mere existence of *prominent *flaws is going to bother me (inherently negative ones, the lack of some specific learnable skill for example isn't a flaw), multiplied by a lot if no effort is made where it's possible.

We aren't even capable of defining a perfect human being in such way that would please everyone, but improvements certainly are always possible.


----------



## aloveablebunny (Apr 27, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> This might go off topic but I believe the term "depression" has been skewed due to overusage. Like the word "Nazi" people don't really know what it really means and they're doing a disservice to actual Holocausts victims.
> 
> Depression was a term used on people with chemical imbalances in the brain that causes them to not function properly in society. Now due to it being tossed around we have to distinguish between depression (aka normal sadness) to clinical depression.



Depression is not the same as "normal sadness". The terms are not interchangeable; they have different meanings. Perhaps you could have reworded it to say that we need to distinguish between bouts of sadness that come and go, and depression which lingers and is much more difficult to deal with.


----------



## Cerioth.Ashenheart (Apr 28, 2018)

I think that considering "handicaps" or mental illnesses a weakness is a bit flawed starting point on its' own. I think actual weakness is just following the masses, not being yourself, doing things how other people want you to etc etc.

As far as mental illnesses go, people experience them differently. Same goes with different disabilities. Someone being blind and working experiences their blindness differently than someone else who is blind and has lost their will to live. There are many factors to this. If you have been a very visual person and suddenly become blind, it can be extremely crippling - feel like you have lost an extremely important part of yourself. Others who are more auditive, kinesthetic or just have had a weak vision to begin with might not take it that hard. 

For mental illnesses it is a similar matter. Some people have a ton of diagnoses and a hard past but they manage - at least seemingly to the outside. Some of these people just break when they are alone and fake to be fine among others, forcing themselves to their very limits to not give any hint of what they are actually going through. This might burn them out eventually. Some have naturally learned healthy coping skills and their brains are better "wired" - they brush off everything with a joke and that works for them. If you have two persons with exactly same background and mental conditions, you still find that they take it differently. Their brains are wired differently. Pretty much everyone have things that would absolutely crush them if it happened to them, while other things they can simply brush off.

I am a disabled person with a mix of physical and mental conditions but I would never call myself weak or want anyone else to call me that. I do struggle with daily self-maintenance, errands and functioning in general but this is not due to wallowing in self-pity or "not trying". My brain just functions very differently from the average and many every-day things are a challenge to tackle. Despite this I am very resilient and can take a lot of crap before I break, and I always defend other people. I always have the energy to support my friends and be there for them. I also know my limits and have good awareness of things that I cannot do. Then again I was born with some of these conditions. 

If someone is interested in the context, I have depression, anxiety, c-PTSD, BPD, SPD (sensory processing disorder, in my case all senses are affected), mild cerebral palsy (clumsy fine motoric system but others would not see this from me unless they observed me very carefully), nystagmus (I lack 3D vision for anything thats not really close to me), nerve damage. Nystagmus and CP combined mean that I have poor coordination when it comes to my sight and hands working together. Some of these conditions cannot be cured. Best I can do is to learn to live with them and make my life be as good as it can.


----------



## aloveablebunny (Apr 28, 2018)

Cerioth.Ashenheart said:


> I think that considering "handicaps" or mental illnesses a weakness is a bit flawed starting point on its' own. I think actual weakness is just following the masses, not being yourself, doing things how other people want you to etc etc.
> 
> As far as mental illnesses go, people experience them differently. Same goes with different disabilities. Someone being blind and working experiences their blindness differently than someone else who is blind and has lost their will to live. There are many factors to this. If you have been a very visual person and suddenly become blind, it can be extremely crippling - feel like you have lost an extremely important part of yourself. Others who are more auditive, kinesthetic or just have had a weak vision to begin with might not take it that hard.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely not weak in the slightest. You are strong, and please never let yourself believe otherwise!


----------



## Fleye (Apr 29, 2018)

Weakness doesn't annoy me, but Fakeness does.

I don't know about others, but I've come across a lot of people online who are extremely eager to tell me about how bad and sad their life is. People who start a conversation with a whole list of disability/handicaps they have, or make comments like "Sometimes I feel like I should just kill myself."

I've got nothing against people with disabilities, and I wish all the best for people who genuinely need help. But I do get annoyed by attention-seekers and circle-jerks of pity which muddy the waters and make everyone look bad. It's dishonest, manipulative, and frankly despicable. If people are genuinely needing help, an open chatroom or forum isn't the place for it. 

Same thing happens in real life, I've seen children self-diagnosing themselves with ADHD, depression, dyslexia, etc and being a complete nuisance. I've seen LGBTQ people complaining about not being employed, when they applied for one job and didn't get picked. (Believe it or not, there might have been someone more suitable for the job). I've seen mentally disabled people complaining about not receiving enough welfare and ordering pizza delivery five days a week. These people aren't weak. They're fake, and deceptively operate in a society that enables them to do so.


----------

