# Computer Problems



## Forgotton (Nov 6, 2009)

Let me know the issue os and everything you can tel me about the situational problems behind it and i'll assist you in fixing it
i can even lead you thorugh builing a PC by phone if you want


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## Aurali (Nov 6, 2009)

Lot's of computer prolbem threads.. why not group and sticky?


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## Forgotton (Nov 6, 2009)

Just so those whom dont seam to care for me.. or would just attack me for my origional offer of help to those whom may need it doesn't happen again or if it does well i'll just ignore them and move on answering those issues that I can


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## ArielMT (Nov 6, 2009)

I have an Averatec notebook PC with Windows XP Service Pack 2 pre-installed.  Occasionally, about every third boot, it gives me two taskbar toolbars on the main bar, and I can't disable either one.  This has been happening since before I installed any third-party applications.

Can you help me?


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## Forgotton (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok your toolbars are they programs opening that sit there for you to open? or is this the Sidebar application that is included with windows?
are there any signifying names associated with them that will help me in finding the process that should be used to disable their startup?


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## ArielMT (Nov 6, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> Ok your toolbars are they programs opening that sit there for you to open? or is this the Sidebar application that is included with windows?



No, these are the toolbars built into Explorer when acting as the shell.  The toolbar that's always present is the Taskbar, and that's what there are two of.

Windows XP does not include any "Sidebar" applications.



Forgotton said:


> are there any signifying names associated with them that will help me in finding the process that should be used to disable their startup?



None.  It's just two taskbars where there should only be one.


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## Aurali (Nov 6, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> Just so those whom dont seam to care for me.. or would just attack me for my origional offer of help to those whom may need it doesn't happen again or if it does well i'll just ignore them and move on answering those issues that I can



Sweetheart, I don't, or never care about one's reputation. People do change. Though, as suggested before, It might be benificial to have a single computer help thread.. but meh.


Okay, system is a Pentium core duo Quad that has been blue screening like crazy at random intervals. From the error code We believe the processor has gone bad. suggestions?


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> No, these are the toolbars built into Explorer when acting as the shell.  The toolbar that's always present is the Taskbar, and that's what there are two of.
> 
> Windows XP does not include any "Sidebar" applications.
> 
> ...


 
interesting. could it be you have dragged the tool bar so it has 2 rows instead of 1 or is it a fully doubled toolbar? if its the first i would try right clicking on the bar and clicking properties in there you can lock the taskbar this will normaly stop it from being able to change if its the second then i'll need to do a little more research on it to find the solution but it sounds like your explorer shell may be double loading and you might have a double instance of the startup command somewhere in your system.
i've down loaded the manual for your tablet and will look over the issue tomarow to give you a more definate answer


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

One locked bar on which there is one Start button, one system tray, no extra toolbars enabled, and two toolbars that each show task buttons.  My Averatec is a laptop, not a tablet.  The sticker with the model number was the first to go, but I just checked System Properties, and it's a 3200-series.  And according to Process Explorer, there's only one Explorer.exe process.

I'll help you out here:  Google and Averatec are both stumped.


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

Aurali said:


> Sweetheart, I don't, or never care about one's reputation. People do change. Though, as suggested before, It might be benificial to have a single computer help thread.. but meh.
> 
> 
> Okay, system is a Pentium core duo Quad that has been blue screening like crazy at random intervals. From the error code We believe the processor has gone bad. suggestions?



what is the error code your getting? and that could be caused by many things not just the processor. if your processor is bad there are testing programs you can run to test it before your system gets to boot up 

http://majorgeeks.com/downloadget.php?id=215&file=15&evp=d8bf00fee284ca7f2374ab15470d2e64

is one such tester that can be used let it run to see if your system will crash under heavy testing. let me know any error codes you get.

How often or soon are the normal tests and have you cleaned out your heatsink of dirt and other particulates that can cause bad airflow and a possible overheat?


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> One locked bar on which there is one Start button, one system tray, no extra toolbars enabled, and two toolbars that each show task buttons.  My Averatec is a laptop, not a tablet.  The sticker with the model number was the first to go, but I just checked System Properties, and it's a 3200-series.  And according to Process Explorer, there's only one Explorer.exe process.
> 
> I'll help you out here:  Google and Averatec are both stumped.




Ok right click on the toolbar its self tell me what check boxes are checked in the first window as well as the toolbars tab.
we could make this go faster if you want to skype with me on that system so i could see the desktop and talk you though what to check as well as it showing me more of what the issue looks like.


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> Ok right click on the toolbar its self tell me what check boxes are checked in the first window as well as the toolbars tab.
> we could make this go faster if you want to skype with me on that system so i could see the desktop and talk you though what to check as well as it showing me more of what the issue looks like.



I don't have Skype, and I don't have a headset or microphone.

By "first window," I assume you mean the pop-up menu?  The pop-up has only "Lock the Taskbar" checked.  By "toolbars tab," I assume you mean the Toolbars menu?  There are no windows or tabs when I right-click.  The Toolbars menu inside the pop-up menu on the taskbar has no items checked.  There are only the items Address, Windows Media Player, Links, Quick Launch, and New Toolbar.


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

interesting. well the fast solution of course would be OS reinstall as for skype its not nessicary to have headphone or mic we could just type faster to each other in it while i would ask you to share the desktop but its not fully required 
initaly i am stumped as to what the issue is. it does sound like several simple problems but none of those seam to lead to the true problem. 
my current thoughts are along the lines of screen resolution or display rendering softwear could be partialy corrupt. which would lead me back to the os reinstall. 
can you take a screen shot of what it looks like and mail that to me? shadowlrd2@hotmail.com


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> interesting. well the fast solution of course would be OS reinstall [...]
> 
> my current thoughts are along the lines of screen resolution or display rendering softwear could be partialy corrupt. which would lead me back to the os reinstall.



I already tried that.  The symptom remained: unpredictably but on average every third boot, I got two taskbars instead of one.

Edit: Format and reinstall is always the measure of _last_ resort in my book, because in recommending so final a solution, it concedes defeat.  Nevertheless, after spending most of a year fruitlessly searching for an answer myself, I resorted to that.


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I already tried that.  The symptom remained: unpredictably but on average every third boot, I got two taskbars instead of one.
> 
> Edit: Format and reinstall is always the measure of _last_ resort in my book, because in recommending so final a solution, it concedes defeat.  Nevertheless, after spending most of a year fruitlessly searching for an answer myself, I resorted to that.



I see it as a tool to try and eliminate software as the source of the issue, having done that there is about 3 possibilities left.
1. the instilation you used could be corrupted 
2. the harddrive could have a bad sector
3. there is a base setting of the os that is off. in the copy you have.

the install you did was it from a disk or from the now more commonly used backup partition?

Run a scandisk and a chkdsk on the system as well as a full defrag. 
the utilities will mark bad sectors on the hard drive its self so if the reinstall is done again those sectors would be skipped during install.

what resolution is the monitor set at?


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> I see it as a tool to try and eliminate software as the source of the issue,



A tool that destroys all data and inconveniences users in the second most devastating way imaginable is not a tool to be used so trivially.



Forgotton said:


> having done that there is about 3 possibilities left.
> 1. the instilation you used could be corrupted
> 2. the harddrive could have a bad sector
> 3. there is a base setting of the os that is off. in the copy you have.



Numbers 1 and 2 are out, as noted below.  Number 3 may be possible, but I've spent a year or more trying to find out what it could be in a pristine installation.



Forgotton said:


> the install you did was it from a disk or from the now more commonly used backup partition?



CD-ROM, tested good.



Forgotton said:


> Run a scandisk and a chkdsk on the system as well as a full defrag.
> the utilities will mark bad sectors on the hard drive its self so if the reinstall is done again those sectors would be skipped during install.



The hard disk has been thorougly tested: no bad sectors found.  Defrags are done at least monthly, often weekly, although such a thing is completely irrelevant when the contents of the entire disk are completely erased.



Forgotton said:


> what resolution is the monitor set at?



I fail to see what relevance this question has.  The resolution is 1024x768x32bpp, the display's native resolution.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 7, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I have an Averatec notebook PC with Windows XP Service Pack 2 pre-installed.  Occasionally, about every third boot, it gives me two taskbar toolbars on the main bar, and I can't disable either one.  This has been happening since before I installed any third-party applications.
> 
> Can you help me?



I have had something similar happen a few years ago with 2000 and the desktop toolbar.  It may be possible to resolve it by unlocking the taskbar, then clicking on the edge of the toolbar (usually indicated with a narrow vertical line) and dragging it off the taskbar.  This will turn it into small window on the desktop, which will have the close "X" button on the top right.  Close it, and that should be the last you see of it (if it is the same issue I had a few years back).

A side question though - why haven't you updated it to SP3 yet?  SP2 is kinda old now.


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> I have had something similar happen a few years ago with 2000 and the desktop toolbar.  It may be possible to resolve it by unlocking the taskbar, then clicking on the edge of the toolbar (usually indicated with a narrow vertical line) and dragging it off the taskbar.  This will turn it into small window on the desktop, which will have the close "X" button on the top right.  Close it, and that should be the last you see of it (if it is the same issue I had a few years back).



I remember trying that a few times, but it's not something that's draggable off the taskbar, so it never turns into a window to close.



ToeClaws said:


> A side question though - why haven't you updated it to SP3 yet?  SP2 is kinda old now.



SP3 wasn't released until very late in this problem's history.


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> A tool that destroys all data and inconveniences users in the second most devastating way imaginable is not a tool to be used so trivially.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the monitor question is because some other simmular issues have been reported in certan resolutions.
while a remote possibility i'm looking for unusual causes for your issues now.

Have you run any video card testers on the vram or support proccessors. front side bus tester.. basicaly can you lead me through what steps and tests you have allready ran (dont need step by step) just so i may be able to pick out something that may not have been checked.

also was this issue present at the start or did it develop over time with the laptop?


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## ToeClaws (Nov 7, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> I remember trying that a few times, but it's not something that's draggable off the taskbar, so it never turns into a window to close.



Hmmm... well, there are scripts that reset the explorer taskbar back to defaults by deleting the current config, which might be corrupted.  Here's one you can download and try:

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/regs_edits/xp_taskbar_desktop_fixall.vbs

If that doesn't fix it, then it's something outside of the registry values.


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> Have you run any video card testers on the vram or support proccessors. front side bus tester.. basicaly can you lead me through what steps and tests you have allready ran (dont need step by step) just so i may be able to pick out something that may not have been checked.



I'm not aware of the problem laptop having any support processors, and it uses shared memory.  Tests done: Memtest86+, Windows XP scandisk/chkdsk, assorted tools using BartPE, badblocks and fsck (read-only mode) done with several versions of Ubuntu using the live CD, and stress tests done with the same Ubuntu CDs.



Forgotton said:


> also was this issue present at the start or did it develop over time with the laptop?



It developed a few months after I got the laptop, but the frequency of occurrence hasn't changed since it began.


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

I would tend to agree with ToeClaws in trying the utility they sudjested but doubt that will have an effect with it being an intermitent issue it seams to me that you are getting some data loss at this point i would pull out my multi meter and start checking some of the relays on the board its self.

do you have some ram about that you could try swaping out to see if there is any change in the regularity of your issue at all. though i doubt this will help either. the fact that it was not an inital issue leads me to believe that it is a hardware issue where when processing the inital loadup it duplicates some or drops some of the code miss processing the commands for your startup. it could be a transistor that is about to blow that has been holding on and every few spikes it allows too much power to pass changing a 0 to a 1 or something like that.

and while I hate to say it I would guess there is not much I could do for you remotely if you can think of any other symptoms or conditions that may have led to this issue coming to be that may change but with what you have said and the tests you have allready run there is not much more to suggest.


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

Actually, I think I found it.  I received a PM from a fellow geek here, and it pointed me to Microsoft KB Article 932039.  I'm actually kicking myself for not finding it sooner, but I've requested the hotfix and I'll see if that doesn't fix the two-taskbars problem.

Edit: Hotfix received, extracted, and copied to USB stick.  Next stop: problem child laptop.


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## Forgotton (Nov 7, 2009)

that would tend to mean you didnt have windows updates installed before on your system which is something i took for granted at the begining figuring in the time period you had stated the issue lasted that, that step had been tried at some point. as allways homes was right  
i hope it does work if not we can try to find more steps to resolve issues even going so far as to get the board model #'s and folowing the data path if your up to that level of testing.


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## ArielMT (Nov 7, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> that would tend to mean you didnt have windows updates installed before on your system which is something i took for granted at the begining figuring in the time period you had stated the issue lasted that, that step had been tried at some point. as allways homes was right
> i hope it does work if not we can try to find more steps to resolve issues even going so far as to get the board model #'s and folowing the data path if your up to that level of testing.



See edit above.

Also, all high-priority updates except Windows XP Service Pack 3 are installed, yet the problem has been persisting for more than a year.

Edit again: So far, so good.  We'll see if that did it in a few days.

Sorry, must be the late hour, but I only just noticed what that first section really said.  Microsoft have never pushed hotfixes as part of the regular update cycle.  They're fixes that Microsoft consider not universally reliable enough to push to every Windows system out there.  The courses teaching the client and server system administration exams on the MCSA and MCSE certification tracks do at least touch on this, right?


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## Carenath (Nov 7, 2009)

B&B in itself is a general help-desk.. I'll stick this one for now and see how it plays out.
It is always a good idea to start seperate threads for specific issues.. but a general help thread is not a bad idea either.

Also, off-topic comments from the peanut gallery will be removed.


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## Forgotton (Nov 8, 2009)

Oh yes they do but as with everyone to error is human and the simple fixes can be missed from time to time tis why many questions get asked in the diagnosis


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## hitokage (Nov 8, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> Also, all high-priority updates except Windows XP Service Pack 3 are installed, yet the problem has been persisting for more than a year.


That particular hotfix was included with SP3, so installing that would have also fixed the issue. See KB946480 - List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3.


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## ArielMT (Nov 9, 2009)

Forgotton said:


> Oh yes they do but as with everyone to error is human and the simple fixes can be missed from time to time tis why many questions get asked in the diagnosis



One of the gravest errors to commit in tech support is to assume things about people and their computers beyond what they specifically report.  It does not matter whether it is in assuming someone is more intelligent or competent than he really is or in assuming he is less intelligent or competent than he really is, it is still a mistake.  Committing that error here is no less a mistake than elsewhere.

Truth be told, I knew the solution before I presented you with the problem.  I wanted to put your skills to the test with a problem no one here (to my knowledge) has ever seen before.  Edit: In fairness, the solution I knew was to upgrade to SP3, but I admit fully to forgetting why.  The hotfix is why.



hitokage said:


> That particular hotfix was included with SP3, so installing that would have also fixed the issue. See KB946480 - List of fixes that are included in Windows XP Service Pack 3.



I forgot about that.  I did at one point in the problem's history upgrade to SP3, but that was between reinstalls, and the problem came back after a reinstall replaced the service pack level with SP2.

I thank you for the link.


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## Forgotton (Nov 9, 2009)

So in other words you are now the 3rd person on this forum who just sought to discredit me. then when I make a light error, admit to it. you attempt to berate me and show your self in a higher light. 
I feel sorry for you and the others whom didn't take an honest offer to assist with issues at face value and instead work to undermine the person offering assistance. I feel you are small people whom need to find that missing piece of your life so you stop trying to take it out on anyone who offers assistance. and you have lost a forum member whom would have been here for many years.
The deception is not what bothers me but the comments that were stated after. I feel it would do you and others here good to learn some humility and common decency.
Good Bye.


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## Runefox (Nov 9, 2009)

OK. I stayed out of this topic until now, but since you've broken down, I believe I can, and should say this. The main reason I've ever tried to "discredit" you is because your actions deserved none to begin with. You were simply incorrect both then and now, and getting pissy because people called you on it shows your immaturity.

Please learn that your MCSE/MCSA (if existent) does not entitle you to status higher than your actual skill level. For the future, please learn that the file "ntdll.dll" is not, in fact, the "network loader software routing DLL file" - Very far from it. Please learn that a random stranger who happens upon a forum which likely has nothing to do with him nor his interests who claims to be an expert in the field and yet who does nothing but skirt around issues with outdated troubleshooting methods and recommending that one never install updates until two years after OS release is absolutely foolish and uncalled for. Please learn, for the sake of yourself and those you attempt to help, that recommending as one of your first-response solutions to reformat a computer exhibiting a known issue with Windows is a grave error, particularly when that issue will resurface after the reinstall is completed.

It's you who needs to learn some humility - Accept that you are not as knowledgeable as you make yourself out to be, and cease making an ass of yourself. I have no quarrel with you, but to see you giving false advice and claiming to be higher than myself or others is highly disrespectful, and this experiment rather neatly shows that you cannot, in fact, put your money where your mouth is.

In addition, I'd like to point out that the solution to this problem could have easily been found via some cursory research into the symptoms - This Google search brings up a solution on the first result.

If you're going to leave because you were called on your claims, then so be it. If you want to drop the attitude, and become part of the community, then we'll welcome you in open arms. Just realize that when you run your mouth and make fantastical claims while at the same time giving bad or nonsensical advice, you will be called on it, for your sake and for the sake of those you're 'helping'. I shudder to think of how you would have reacted had you posted this in Offtopic Discussion, where the trolls reign supreme.

Since this may be removed, I'm going to forward this via PM as well to ensure it gets read.


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## ArielMT (Nov 9, 2009)

I should also note that I'm rather humbled myself by how easily the more precise fix was found.  In the past, I've had bad luck receiving emailed hotfixes because they come as links to password-protected PK-Zip files and usually got filtered by overly aggressive spam filters.

For the record, I did not and never will consider it a mistake to leave a tech support problem unsolved, especially on a forum.  There's no way anyone can possibly know it all, but a humble attitude does tend to help inspire those who do know specific answers to share their knowledge.

I'm de-stickying this thread, since it seems to me to have served its purpose, but I'd love to replace it with a thread on how us furries can get and give good tech support here and related stuff.  I'd rather have some what-to-do examples up instead of a what-not-to-do one.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 10, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> For the record, I did not and never will consider it a mistake to leave a tech support problem unsolved, especially on a forum.  There's no way anyone can possibly know it all, but a humble attitude does tend to help inspire those who do know specific answers to share their knowledge.



Agreed - and if any of you need the reference, "humble" is pretty much the opposite of what Forgotten was.  >_<



ArielMT said:


> I'm de-stickying this thread, since it seems to me to have served its purpose, but I'd love to replace it with a thread on how us furries can get and give good tech support here and related stuff.  I'd rather have some what-to-do examples up instead of a what-not-to-do one.



Good idea - maybe a sticky thread were folks just post helpful sites/links and troubleshooting guides?  Could do it something like the "where are you from" thread in the Den where the main poster just updates the first thread.


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## ArielMT (Nov 10, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Good idea - maybe a sticky thread were folks just post helpful sites/links and troubleshooting guides?  Could do it something like the "where are you from" thread in the Den where the main poster just updates the first thread.



Go nuts!

A basic how-to thread would have to include esr's "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way" paper (which has a section on how to give smart answers, too), but here are some other sticky-worthy thread ideas off the top of my head:

* How to make good passphrases and manage them smartly.

* Good programs and tricks for malware protection and Internet security.  This one naturally would be more Windows-centric, but Linux, Mac, and Unix, while faring better here, aren't themselves perfect either.

* What to look for in PCs for various purposes, both ready-made brands and parts for custom rigs and both hardware and software, and who the best people to get them from are or how to find them.  Purposes furry-related include animation, art, gaming, music, and writing.


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## Runefox (Nov 10, 2009)

lo4lyfe said:


> umm yea -snip-  no viruses or anything cause i have it and it works:grin:



Way to promote piracy.


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## SnowFox (Nov 10, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Way to promote piracy.



http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=55547


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## Runefox (Nov 10, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=55547



Ohhhhh, he's an idiot/troll. =D That explains everything! ... He'll fit right in. >_>


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## Rigor Sardonicus (Nov 11, 2009)

Oh, darn, I missed all the fun.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 11, 2009)

Rigor Sardonicus said:


> Oh, darn, I missed all the fun.



Aye - you can't turn your back on this section for a minute.


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## ArielMT (Nov 11, 2009)

lo4lyfe said:


> [BALEETED]



That's not what I meant by going nuts.  



ToeClaws said:


> Aye - you can't turn your back on this section for a minute.



No kidding.


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