# Pack Mentality



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

Hi! I'm Az Tanner and I am Therian Red Wolf. 
I understand that therians are seen as strange, outlandish, extreme, and to a degree unwelcome within the fandom but, I would like to share my hopes with you in hopes that I can enlighten others and find others who might share similar views or identify with my beliefs

I am the Alpha of the Iron Roots pack. 
Even in the therian community my views are extreme. I ask you to just let me explain myself.

I am not looking for others to join my pack, however, I hope to enlighten people on the joys of such a group and hope a few desire to start something similar

To me, A Pack is not a gang nor are we wanna be teen wolves. 
A pack, in human terms is a family. Where the Alphas are the parental figures meant to guide but not completely control. 
We basically are a second family to most in my pack.
Thats what I wish to share with others. I want to share the joys of being with others who accept you and the thrill of maybe going a little out of your comfort zone as well as having one small group who you can rely on no matter what. 

Now as for alphas and ranks, where was no fighting, it started out as group of 4 bored 20 year olds (me being the only therian) wanting to start a group. I suggested something like a wolf pack, and the idea quickly grew from there. Gunner and myself were appointed alpha by the 2 others in our 4 some they said they were comfortable doing what is best for the pack and followed as our seconds in command.

In my pack, We have kids of all ages from their 20â€™s to 13 year olds.
Not all are therians and not all are furries. Alot of them are there for the sense of family and loyalty. 
We have a fire made out of a clay planter and we have the hunters go get food (we all chip in what ever we can of course).
Before it gets dark everyone takes part in gathering sticks for the fire as the betas set up the fire we let the pups all romp around.
Once the fire is set, the alphas light the fire signifying the start of the meeting. 
We meet every new and full moon to greet each moon cycle and send it off as well.
After everyone eats a feast fit for a king, we tell stories and share ideas on what we should do in the future.
We do a small bit of trespassing and as a pack are always on the move, trespassing to find the perfect location to call home.
What my pack had incorporated into our behaviors unique in my opinion. 
We wanted to keep that suburban influence into out pack behaviors
We have almost adapted in quiet a unique sense that is actually now that i'm thinking about it really hard to describe.

I wish to show others that having a pack is not to just play pretend or to just take a fandom or a belief to an extreme, but rather to create a group that you can rely on. In essence, we are creating a new family. Creating a group that you can trust with anything and who will accept you for who you are no matter if you are gay, straight, a therian, or just a normal every day person. A pack is what ever you want to be! For some it's purely social, for others it means a bit more. 

I hope to find other packs and get a chance to talk with others who share my idea in hopes that i can lean from them how they run their pack, what they do and stuff like thatâ€¦. Also, to help those who have longed for a closeness such as thisâ€¦

So, whats your opinion? Have any questions for me?
I will be sticking around to answer and questions regarding my pack or therian influence. So please feel free to ask.
Thank you for your time.


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## cobalt-blue (Aug 6, 2012)

I think it would be interesting to hear from the lower ranking in your pack.  See if they also share your views.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

cobalt-blue said:


> I think it would be interesting to hear from the lower ranking in your pack.  See if they also share your views.


I agree! one of them has a FA, I'll try to drag them on the forums hahaha


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## Schwimmwagen (Aug 6, 2012)

I personally see this whole Therianthropy thing as a religion or a belief, if a wierd one to many (but then again, there aren't many religions out there that we would think of as anything but odd over here).

If it's your bag, whatever. Do I think of it as logical, reasonable, or anything like that? Nnnnnnot really. But it's not really okay of me to bash it as it doesn't seem to be hurtful to anyone.

Preaching it or anything else, however, isn't welcomed by many people at all though, and nor is it here.

And the fact that you got 13-year-olds in on it doesn't sound good. Jussayin'


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I personally see this whole Therianthropy thing as a religion or a belief, if a wierd one to many (but then again, there aren't many religions out there that we would think of as anything but odd over here).
> 
> If it's your bag, whatever. Do I think of it as logical, reasonable, or anything like that? Nnnnnnot really. But it's not really okay of me to bash it as it doesn't seem to be hurtful to anyone.
> 
> ...



I understand where you are coming from, but I do not push my therian beliefs onto them. I accept anyone into my pack, who I am to discriminate, although typically i don't let anyone younger then 16 into my pack  they are siblings other members who have joined. I merely share my beliefs and wether they chose to believe them or not is their decision. As a therian, and an individual all i can do is share my experiences in hopes that others can relate or enlighten people.


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## Conker (Aug 6, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> To me, A Pack is not a gang nor are we wanna be teen wolves.


Shame that's what it sounds like.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

Conker said:


> Shame that's what it sounds like.


Not really, we do not partake in any type of criminal behavior. At the most we are "trespassing" by being in a public park after dark (stupid rule really) we do not do drugs, we do not go around bullying people or feeling superior to anyone in any way. We are not at all a menace to society. How, are we a gang? Please, you are entitled to your opinion but, i would like to know your reasoning behind it.


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## ShiroXIX (Aug 6, 2012)

I have one of these! It's called a group of friends--
In all actuality I'm part of a huge cosplay group. We work as a unit, meet once every couple of weeks and generally rely on each other for love and support. Does that sound like what you're doing? Not entirely, but close enough. Seriously though, you can have this sense of love and "one-ship" without having to call it a pack or light fires on the full moon.


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## tomothewolfcat (Aug 6, 2012)

I, myself, am a therian and a furry. I am a member of the iron roots wolf pack. I can pretty much speak for all the lower members when I say that the pack is a family. We simply chill and have fun. There is no like, praying, preaching or weird sacraments. We just ave fun and greet the moon every full and say good bye every new moon, we cook good food and have fun. Some of us aren't even wolf Therians. We don't force anything on anyone. we accept everyone in every shade species and color. It is fun. Really fun, getting to see everyone and not care about what other's think. IT is a chance for as all to be ourselves!

People may call it a group of friends but, to us it is a family. We are closer than friends. 

To most of us, we are indeed a family


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## Conker (Aug 6, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Not really, we do not partake in any type of criminal behavior. At the most we are "trespassing" by being in a public park after dark (stupid rule really) we do not do drugs, we do not go around bullying people or feeling superior to anyone in any way. We are not at all a menace to society. How, are we a gang? Please, you are entitled to your opinion but, i would like to know your reasoning behind it.


Was more thinking the teen wolf thing.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

Conker said:


> Was more thinking the teen wolf thing.


Ah well I really didn't know those existed when I started this... it was only until one of our members pointed it out to us. I guess in a way, we are like that, but in a more... relaxed... not so rebellious way. You don't have to have a tail, or a collar, or dress in all black. Its more of just a family, we are wolves, we interact like wolves within the pack and don't do it for attention we do it because its what we do because it feels right.


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## ShiroXIX (Aug 6, 2012)

tomothewolfcat said:


> People may call it a group of friends but, to us it is a family. We are closer than friends.
> 
> To most of us, we are indeed a family



Well yeah, to me, my group of cosplay friends I meet with are my family. I trust them and feel accepted with them. They were the first group of people I felt I "belonged" with. Trust me, it's possible to have a family atmosphere without turning it into a psudo-cult.


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## tomothewolfcat (Aug 6, 2012)

We are in no ways a "psudo-cult" or anything like that.  It is still different than that. Sure we are ideed a group of friends. We goof off and get yelled at by the alphas (and our parents... haha) but honestly its all a closeness thing. You can call us just a group of friends dubbed with the name "pack" but we are more than that. its hard to explain. It's being with people who accept you for who you are, people who love you, besides the parents and siblings you were born with. It is going out and being able to associate with a group of people. Like Jocks and Preps. well we are the pack. We are wolves and we will act like wolves. unlike a group of friends, we have a hierarchy, we have boundaries, no one would ever try to hurt a member of the pack. 

Just Like a real pack would. We follow the idea of a pack.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

ShiroXIX said:


> Well yeah, to me, my group of cosplay friends I meet with are my family. I trust them and feel accepted with them. They were the first group of people I felt I "belonged" with. Trust me, it's possible to have a family atmosphere without turning it into a psudo-cult.



In a sense it is like that, but just a different title. Like Isaid, it's pretty much how ever you want to interoperate it. We are not a cult, I did not force them into anything nor will I do anything if they decide to leave. Everything they do is their own decision. I do not force anything, nor do I see myself as above them. Alpha is just a title as leader is to any other group.



tomothewolfcat said:


> But it is still different than that. Sure we are ideed a group of friends. We goof off and get yelled at by the alphas (and our parents... haha) but honestly its all a closeness thing. You can call us just a group of friends dubbed with the name "pack" but we are more than that. its hard to explain. It's being with people who accept you for who you are, people who love you, besides the parents and siblings you were born with. It is going out and being able to associate with a group of people. Like Jocks and Preps. well we are the pack. We are wolves and we will act like wolves. unlike a group of friends, we have a hierarchy, we have boundaries, no one would ever try to hurt a member of the pack.
> 
> Just Like a real pack would. We follow the idea of a pack.


Exactly. Basil, we are like say any team... we have that mentality. thats pretty much the only thing that separates us from any other group.


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## cobalt-blue (Aug 6, 2012)

So where do you see this going, some of you sound like you live at home, what happens when you move out?  Females in your pack?  Girlfriends? Plans to create a den (rent a house) things like that.


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## ShiroXIX (Aug 6, 2012)

tomothewolfcat said:


> But it is still different than that. Sure we are ideed a group of friends. We goof off and get yelled at by the alphas (and our parents... haha) but honestly its all a closeness thing. You can call us just a group of friends dubbed with the name "pack" but we are more than that. its hard to explain. It's being with people who accept you for who you are, people who love you, besides the parents and siblings you were born with. It is going out and being able to associate with a group of people. Like Jocks and Preps.



But it's different than that. Sure we are a group of cosplayers and friends. We goof off and get yelled at by the older cosplayers (and our parents if they chaperone our events, haha), but it's a closeness thing. You can call us just a group of friends dubbed with the name "ATLstuck" but we are more than that. It's being with people who accept you for who you are, people who love you that aren't your parents or siblings. It's going out and being able to associate with a group of people, like goths or punks.

I can basically say everything you have said about your "pack" about my ATLstuck friends. Basically, my point is, this isn't a "new" or "revolutionary" idea. It's something anyone can experience and a lot of people do. I love my friends and I love the closeness we have. I don't know what I would do without them, but I don't feel it's a concept I need to share. I joined an accepting group of people and I can do that anywhere. Since moving away from Atlanta, I hope to find another group and have actually arranged to attend a meet up with the furries in my area. I'm sure the feeling will be the same.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

cobalt-blue said:


> So where do you see this going, some of you sound like you live at home, what happens when you move out?  Females in your pack?  Girlfriends? Plans to create a den (rent a house) things like that.


Yes, Baisl and I are both females, out pack is made out a majority of females. I will be going away to finish off college and I will pass that on to the betas


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## LizardKing (Aug 6, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> we have the hunters go get food



Hunting is so easy these days, what with supermarkets and all. Why back in my day...


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## tomothewolfcat (Aug 6, 2012)

But as i said. It isn't something that can really been seen or observed from the outside. there is a reason why this topic is even called "pack mentality" its all in what you believe, how you feel. like stepping out of your normal skin and into that of a wolf. now what we are doing I know isnt "new" or "Revolitionary" but we enjoy ourselves. Isn't that enough for you?

Exactly, Az and I are females, so it the majority of the pack. The beta's are younger than the alphas and will take over when we leave. Much like a real wolf pack, members leave and start their own. and that is what we wish to do... hopefully our wishes carry on.



LizardKing said:


> Hunting is so easy these days, what with supermarkets and all. Why back in my day...



haha exactly, that is out little joke among the pack.


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## Osiris the jackal (Aug 6, 2012)

I am Beta of the caliber pack, Like ClassicFAIL's pack it is more then a friendship. We also do not preach or anything like that and to myknowledge no Therians really do. My pack also does a lot of service work andhelps anyone who needs it.


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## burakki (Aug 6, 2012)

I actually do have a few questions...

1) How do you guys operate? To clarify a little more, when all of you meet up or something along of the lines of that, do you actually live together, or is it essentially hanging out?

2) How do resolve any issues in the pack? It could be anything ranging from responsibilities, arguments, petty things, etc.

3) Has anybody ever been removed from the pack for any specific reason? To add to that, Has anybody ever left on their own accord?

4) Why? Does it all of this give you a sense of fulfillment, companionship, or anything related to that?

5) Last one: Not that i'd be interested, but i'd just like to know how others are able to join the pack. Is there any process, ritual, or activity one must achieve to join the pack, or is based upon deliberation in the group?

Thanks for any clarification.


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## ShiroXIX (Aug 6, 2012)

tomothewolfcat said:


> But as i said. It isn't something that can really been seen or observed from the outside. there is a reason why this topic is even called "pack mentality" its all in what you believe, how you feel. like stepping out of your normal skin and into that of a wolf. now what we are doing I know isnt "new" or "Revolitionary" but we enjoy ourselves. Isn't that enough for you?



I'm not saying you need to 'prove' yourself. My question is simply "why". Why do you feel the need to meet at the cycle of the moon, light fires and have a hierarchy? You realize you can have that same sense of family without all the ritual, right? Why not just meet up and chill out twice a month like normal people? Why does it have to be "like wolves"?


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## cobalt-blue (Aug 6, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Yes, Baisl and I are both females, out pack is made out a majority of females. I will be going away to finish off college and I will pass that on to the betas


Do see yourself returning during school off times?  Returning as something other that a alpha?  Doing what you can to help while away?


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## tomothewolfcat (Aug 6, 2012)

ShiroXIX said:


> I'm not saying you need to 'prove' yourself. My question is simply "why". Why do you feel the need to meet at the cycle of the moon, light fires and have a hierarchy? You realize you can have that same sense of family without all the ritual, right? Why not just meet up and chill out twice a month like normal people? Why does it have to be "like wolves"?



Why not? If anything for me personally it is a sense of fullness almost. to be able to step into my animal skin and let go of the burdens of humanity... atleast that is what it is for me,

Others? a few come for the social aspect, and some just come for something to do. 

it is different for all of us really.


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## Conker (Aug 6, 2012)

This whole thread reminds me of _Twilight_ in a way :[


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

burakki said:


> 1) How do you guys operate? To clarify a little more, when all of you meet up or something along of the lines of that, do you actually live together, or is it essentially hanging out?


 As of right now it is just a hangout type thing, most people are still in high school, most are going to or just finished up their senior year... and I am still trying to figure things out myself.



burakki said:


> 2) How do resolve any issues in the pack? It could be anything ranging from responsibilities, arguments, petty things, etc.


I dont run into it very often but we have a no violence policy, any disagreement is brought up and dealt with via words or small contests (if its dominance related) 



burakki said:


> 3) Has anybody ever been removed from the pack for any specific reason? To add to that, Has anybody ever left on their own accord?


Yes, one person has left on their own accord but no one is ever forcefully removed. We are a family we accept you for who you are



burakki said:


> 4) Why? Does it all of this give you a sense of fulfillment, companionship, or anything related to that?


It gives me a sense of home, acceptance, belonging, and in a strange way accomplishment. I feel like i can be my true self that i can step away from human norms and they accept me.



burakki said:


> 5) Last one: Not that i'd be interested, but i'd just like to know how others are able to join the pack. Is there any process, ritual, or activity one must achieve to join the pack, or is based upon deliberation in the group?


Right now no. It's all built on trust. You are welcome and once you gain our trust you get your name and I make you a tail that you design and dog tag with is basically the official pack welcome... You don't have to wear the tail.


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## Dreaming (Aug 6, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> So, whats your opinion? Have any questions for me?


These packs seem to be growing more popular lately, though I don't suppose you can say why? 



> In my pack, We have kids of all ages from their 20â€™s to 13 year olds


You're hanging around on parks, at night, with 13 year olds? Not good.


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## Namba (Aug 6, 2012)

This pack mentality thing kinda reminds me of the Manson family from what I just read.


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## burakki (Aug 6, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> As of right now it is just a hangout type thing, most people are still in high school, most are going to or just finished up their senior year... and I am still trying to figure things out myself.
> 
> 
> I dont run into it very often but we have a no violence policy, any disagreement is brought up and dealt with via words or small contests (if its dominance related)
> ...



I appreciate the responses. It's given me a lot of insight into the dynamics of the pack, so now i have much more tolerance, and now i'm even more interested! I'd like to know, out of curiosity, if there any specific activities in regards to your gatherings or meetups.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 6, 2012)

burakki said:


> I appreciate the responses. It's given me a lot of insight into the dynamics of the pack, so now i have much more tolerance, and now i'm even more interested! I'd like to know, out of curiosity, if there any specific activities in regards to your gatherings or meetups.


I hope to find other packs and eventually organize a meet-and-greet for any and all interested in forming a pack or just experiencing what one is like. As of right now my pack has a fire and we just enjoy the night, eventually i want to go camping and such but for right now, while i figure some things out its more just a social event. Everyone sits around a fire telling stories or discussing what tail design they want, and making their tails. When I get a job i want to make collars for each member of their pack. (most seem to like that idea) 



Dreaming said:


> These packs seem to be growing more popular lately, though I don't suppose you can say why?
> 
> 
> You're hanging around on parks, at night, with 13 year olds? Not good.



I can say I do not know why they are growing so popular... I didn't really know many existed outside of my own.
As stated before they are the younger siblings of some members of my pack. We have literally a designated baby sitter in our pack.


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## Butters Shikkon (Aug 7, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Yes, Baisl and I are both females, out pack is made out a majority of females. I will be going away to finish off college and I will pass that on to the betas



Oh, I always hate goodbyes...that'll be quite bitter sweet I imagine. 

A non-violence policy I think is for the best, (I used to live on a mean street, I'll leave it at that ^^ and you've mentioned that "struggles" for dominance/disagreements are decided through contests. I'd love to hear more about which ones you've chosen (I assume a little physical activity is involved and not many quizshow type deals). Do just the Alphas decide on the contest or do all the members have to agree on it? 

You know, this pack idea isn't very different than other subcultures out there. You choose to gather arounda fire and gaze at the moon (I love the wilderness myself) while anime fans gather round their tv/dvd players to enjoy their favorite shows...and lest we forget some furries attention a mystical ritual known as a "convention"...what goes on there is a heavily guarded secret, I suspect alien activity myself (why has no one accused furries of being aliens before, all we get is zoophlia and cartoon obession stereotypes...aliens are cool T_T) Sounds like you're not that different from any other get-together out there. Thanks for sharing some details from the inside of a pack, I always like to hear things from all sides.

Oh, and catchy title


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> Oh, I always hate goodbyes...that'll be quite bitter sweet I imagine.
> 
> A non-violence policy I think is for the best, (I used to live on a mean street, I'll leave it at that ^^ and you've mentioned that "struggles" for dominance/disagreements are decided through contests. I'd love to hear more about which ones you've chosen (I assume a little physical activity is involved and not many quizshow type deals). Do just the Alphas decide on the contest or do all the members have to agree on it?
> 
> ...



Its all about how you see things. Many people use their packs for different things for us, it kinda what just happened. 
Oh yeah I have nooooooooo idea where i got the name from... 
I try to keep it as toned down from my ideas as possible for now as to not scare my non therian friends away. I'm slowly changing this so it becomes more to what was originally planed but both alphas and betas have agreed that a slow transition is the way to go.

Depending on the argument, we have come up with challenges as a pack, Although sometimes we let the boys duel it out in play fighting but we never let it get serious. Most of the time it is resolved though the use of words.


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## Rilvor (Aug 7, 2012)

This all being said, Dreaming has an important point here.

You shouldn't be in the park after curfew hours, period. Especially not with very young people, none of you are adults.

For one, it is not safe. Yes I know there are a lot of you at any given time, but there are also children present in an unsafe environment. It's a responsibility thing, alright?

Not to mention it gives police a reason to be suspicious of you, when they see a large group of kids hanging around a park late at night.

I don't see why you all do not simply have these get-togethers at one of your group member's backyard.


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## Ames (Aug 7, 2012)

Eyal Flurry said:


> This pack mentality thing kinda reminds me of the Manson family from what I just read.



inb4 helter skelter


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## Brazen (Aug 7, 2012)

As the alpha male of the FAF pack let me be the first to welcome you to the forums. I am not well-versed in wolf etiquette but as a sign of goodwill I will allow you to roll onto your back so I can piss on you (that's how you denote alpha relations, right?)


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Aug 7, 2012)

So a therian eh?
After listening to that I got interested about therianthropy and didn't really sleep last night because I kept googling for more and more. Interesting community 'n all and I can see why most people think Therians are insane.
However I don't think so. I may not fully understand the thing nor I feel like I'm one but that doesn't justify people declaring it as clinical lycanthropy or schizophrenia. It's just the world's way of trying to stabilize.
I didn't hear a word about packs though. Do most therians live in packs or tight communities?
And how does being a therian affect your life?


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## Ozriel (Aug 7, 2012)

Brazen said:


> As the alpha male of the FAF pack let me be the first to welcome you to the forums. I am not well-versed in wolf etiquette but as a sign of goodwill I will allow you to roll onto your back so I can piss on you (that's how you denote alpha relations, right?)




Brazen, go sit in a corner until I say it's okay to come out and play. :V



JamesB said:


> inb4 helter skelter



[yt]QWuXmfgXVxY[/yt]


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> This all being said, Dreaming has an important point here.
> 
> You shouldn't be in the park after curfew hours, period. Especially not with very young people, none of you are adults.
> 
> ...



There are always people there after dark so, the cops kinda just gave up. and its not that large of a group there is only 11 of us on a good day (which rarely happens) usually there only around 6-8 of us typically
As for the actual fire, that held on my property due to safety reasons. So we move from my house to the park which is down the road (about 3 blocks)
Also, the curfew in my district is 1am.
But for some reason (that even my parents think is stupid) the park "closes" at sunset.
I personally, don't mind the younger members, we have a babysitter (quite literally) that keeps them out of trouble. 
As alpha, I would not ever let them get into anything dangerous. I take my responsibilities very very seriously.



Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> So a therian eh?
> After listening to that I got interested about therianthropy and didn't really sleep last night because I kept googling for more and more. Interesting community 'n all and I can see why most people think Therians are insane.
> However I don't think so. I may not fully understand the thing nor I feel like I'm one but that doesn't justify people declaring it as clinical lycanthropy or schizophrenia. It's just the world's way of trying to stabilize.
> I didn't hear a word about packs though. Do most therians live in packs or tight communities?
> And how does being a therian affect your life?



I'm happy it sparked your interest, but I'm sorry you didn't get enough sleep. 
Well, as I stated, my views are pretty extreme even in the therian community. There are a few packs and ever prides depending on the animal(s) you identify with, but from what i have seen, i don't believe there is many. I believe its depends on each pack, sure some might live together. I want to have a pack like that, but given the ages and maturity levels and situations of most in my pack, its impossible at this current moment.

Being therian has really affected my life. I could go into a very long story on how I first found myself, but i'll just say this. WHen I was young, every young, I knew that I was different. I was bullied all my life for it, so eventually i hide myself, it was suffocating, torture even. Quite literally I felt empty and nervous all the time especially when i would shift. When I got to high school I just decided enough was enough and I let me be myself (sorry for quoting shinedown) It was as if I was reborn into a new life, my grades got better, I was happier, I was a totally different person. So, yeah, its affected my life. Sure, I lost some friends because of it. But, I also gained friendships, strong bonds, which i'm very thankful for.


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## Ikrit (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't see anything wrong with pack mentality

we are social creatures, and nearly all social creatures form packs.

really, we all form some kind of pack, with family and/or friends.  You don't think of it as a pack because you don't really use that word to describe it


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## Ozriel (Aug 7, 2012)

I really can't say much on the belief...or tell people their belief is wrong as long as it isn't a Manson family-like cult or like the FFhouse, but I can at least respect those who know the early history of it...which nor many do because they pick and choose the meaning to suit them as a cop-out to make themselves special snowflakes. 

Anyways, play nice you guys, I am going to abuse my time in Skyrim.


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## Rilvor (Aug 7, 2012)

It has much less to do with you letting them do something dangerous, and more to do with something dangerous coming to you, you know what I am saying?

I doubt you will take what I am saying into consideration, but I hope you do nonetheless.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> It has much less to do with you letting them do something dangerous, and more to do with something dangerous coming to you, you know what I am saying?
> 
> I doubt you will take what I am saying into consideration, but I hope you do nonetheless.



I understand that it is a risk taking kids who are so young. But their parents know exactly what they are doing they go home at 10 and there hasn't been any problems. We keep the occupied for a few hours, it makes them do their homework (we help tutor them) they eat and have a fun few hours and then we drive them home. So far we have had no problems, it's not like we are going behind their parents backs or doing anything illegal, they are well behaved and there are only 2 of them. It's not like they are 5 year olds, they are very mature for their age.

Now if it's the law you concerned about, we have their older siblings in this pack, they are well taken care of, and as I said, we aren't doing anything illegal.

We make sure we are a good role model for the pups.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Aug 7, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> It has much less to do with you letting them do something dangerous, and more to do with something dangerous coming to you, you know what I am saying?
> 
> I doubt you will take what I am saying into consideration, but I hope you do nonetheless.


Can I just comment on your sig real quick and not go offtopic?
Because I love the hell out of Monster Party.
I need to play through that game, again.


*Topic:* I'll never understand the "pack" mentality, and I don't consider it an entirely healthy mindset. To disregard common discrepancies in favor of "the group" sounds like selling yourself short for some insecure need for acceptance. My friendships, and "group of friends," are all entirely different people who get along with me. I don't need some kind of arbitrary "but I'm inclined to" reason to stick around with them. Nor do I need to do it because "they accept me." I do it on the simple grounds that I like them enough.
I did not hang around with the "goths" on the simple principle of being a "goth," myself. I sought out people who I liked, and liked me in return, as I believe should be a basis for healthy friendships and relationships.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I've never understood the necessity of feeling "belonging" to something or to have socialization, to the point where things like this form. It's just kind of confusing.

Also, according to what I can gather from your FA journals, I question the suitability of serving as a role model and a point of guidance from a group of people really is for someone dealing with those kinds of mental issues.
I know you said that there is another "alpha," but it's still something that concerns me.


----------



## Brazen (Aug 7, 2012)

Vaelarsa said:


> *Topic:* I'll never understand the "pack" mentality, and I don't consider it an entirely healthy mindset. To disregard common discrepancies in favor of "the group" sounds like selling yourself short for some insecure need for acceptance. My friendships, and "group of friends," are all entirely different people who get along with me. I don't need some kind of arbitrary "but I'm inclined to" reason to stick around with them. Nor do I need to do it because "they accept me." I do it on the simple grounds that I like them enough.
> I did not hang around with the "goths" on the simple principle of being a "goth," myself. I sought out people who I liked, and liked me in return, as I believe should be a basis for healthy friendships and relationships.
> 
> Maybe I'm just weird, but I've never understood the necessity of feeling "belonging" to something or to have socialization, to the point where things like this form. It's just kind of confusing.
> ...



Don't fursecute the therian bro.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 7, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> It has much less to do with you letting them do something dangerous, and more to do with something dangerous coming to you, you know what I am saying?



Like a person coming in looking for jailbat sex?


----------



## BarlettaX (Aug 7, 2012)

Brazen said:


> Don't fursecute the therian bro.



Don't troll the therian bro.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Like a person coming in looking for jailbat sex?



Haha well in my area, I'm thankful to say that there are no instances of any type of predatory behavior... in humans that is. 




Vaelarsa said:


> Can I just comment on your sig real quick and not go offtopic?
> Because I love the hell out of Monster Party.
> I need to play through that game, again.
> 
> ...



Well everyone has up's and down's yes? Everyone has flaws, am I correct? Why go and judge my leadership on one small slip of character. We all at one point or another let emotions get the better of us sometimes. 
I am fine, yes, maybe I don't have alot of confidence in myself, yes I may have some flaws, but, we all make mistakes, we all have feelings. As an Alpha I know that I should have been stronger, but who are you to judge without knowing the circumstances.  As an alpha all I can do is learn from my mistakes, my pack accepts me as their leader flaws and all and as long as they are ok with that, then that is all that needs to be said.




BarlettaX said:


> Don't troll the therian bro.


Don't troll the troll bro!


----------



## Rilvor (Aug 7, 2012)

Vaelarsa said:


> Can I just comment on your sig real quick and not go offtopic?
> Because I love the hell out of Monster Party.
> I need to play through that game, again.
> 
> ...


OT: Yes, I just cleared through it yesterday. There is no game weirder than this one. It doesn't seem like it'd be a fun game, considering how unforgiving it is, but somehow it draws me back to keep playing it. I'll probably play it again soon, right now I'm clearing through every single Castlevania game in order (Currently working on Castlevania 64).

Truth be told, no I do not see why these strings need to be attached either. I find it highly strange and confusing, but I guess whatever they're having fun with. As long as it stays something fun, and not like a social safety blanket. The issue I find is that it seems more the latter.


Ozriel said:


> Like a person coming in looking for jailbat sex?



Yes, that. But it's also the case of rapists, muggers, and the likely chance of encountering thugs in a park after dark in general.

You can say you've run across the highway without getting hit all you wish, but eventually there will be a car you did not see coming.

There just is no reason to not get together in a safer environment. It's needlessly endangering minors.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 7, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Haha well in my area, I'm thankful to say that there are no instances of any type of predatory behavior... in humans that is.


 

If you are in a tight knit community or Burrough where news spreads faster than the Bubonic plague, there won't be any instances like that unless you do get someone who is desparate for sex and latches onto your group. 





> Well everyone has up's and down's yes? Everyone has flaws, am I correct? Why go and judge my leadership on one small slip of character. We all at one point or another let emotions get the better of us sometimes.
> I am fine, yes, maybe I don't have alot of confidence in myself, yes I may have some flaws, but, we all make mistakes, we all have feelings. As an Alpha I know that I should have been stronger, but who are you to judge without knowing the circumstances.  As an alpha all I can do is learn from my mistakes, my pack accepts me as their leader flaws and all and as long as they are ok with that, then that is all that needs to be said.



What she's getting at (I think) is that your character flaws may set you up for downfall as a leader and put you in a position that sets you up for abuse....atleast that's what I assume she's getting at....I dunno..



Rilvor said:


> Yes, that. But it's also the case of rapists, muggers, and the likely chance of encountering thugs in a park after dark in general.
> 
> You can say you've run across the highway without getting hit all you wish, but eventually there will be a car you did not see coming.
> 
> There just is no reason to not get together in a safer environment. It's needlessly endangering minors.



I guess, but it also depends on the location she's in. Big city parks are always a potential danger unless she's in the boonies...but then again police officers are often wary of teenagers in large groups at night in a park unless there's an event going on.


----------



## triage (Aug 7, 2012)

is this real


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> If you are in a tight knit community or Burrough where news spreads faster than the Bubonic plague, there won't be any instances like that unless you do get someone who is desparate for sex and latches onto your group.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I live in a very tight knit suburban community. Filled with mostly 80-some year olds.
There has never in my communitys history of even allowing a sexual predator live in this area when the vote has come up. The park we are in is a small park within the comminity. Nothing fancy quite literally its just a field and 2 swings.

Again, my pack accepts me as leader flaws and all. 



triage said:


> is this real


Yes, this is real.


----------



## ProjectCrash (Aug 7, 2012)

Not really my thing, but hey, kudos to you for doing what makes you happy.


----------



## burakki (Aug 7, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> I live in a very tight knit suburban community. Filled with mostly 80-some year olds.
> There has never in my communitys history of even allowing a sexual predator live in this area when the vote has come up. The park we are in is a small park within the comminity. Nothing fancy quite literally its just a field and 2 swings.
> 
> Again, my pack accepts me as leader flaws and all.
> ...



That get's me thinking.... Do you believe that the nature of your suburban community itself allows you to bond more closely with your pack members, or is it just a coincidence in your eyes, and that it's more or less just existing on common ground/interests/etc ?


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

burakki said:


> That get's me thinking.... Do you believe that the nature of your suburban community itself allows you to bond more closely with your pack members, or is it just a coincidence in your eyes, and that it's more or less just existing on common ground/interests/etc ?


I really dont know. A lot of my pack members i met at college so they don't even live in my community, only 3 members live in my community. So I think more over is just a sense of safety.


----------



## Harbinger (Aug 7, 2012)

<--- has no idea what a Thea-Thorian is and too tired to google.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Putting it simply, a Therianthrope is someone who carries a soul of another earthen animal. Some believe throughout each lifetime they collect memories or souls which follow them to this day. Others believe that they are animals that were just placed in the wrong body. Either way, it's a gift. There are many other beliefs on to why someone has this trait. Anyways, some believe that when the animal dies it's soul can harvest itself in another body at birth, others believe that sometimes the souls merge with theirs, and some even believe it happened just by accident. 

those are just some beliefs. You can find out more here http://project-shift.org/are-you-a-therian/
and I still go by the older/out dated definitions  here:
http://spiritualawaken.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=shapeshift&action=display&thread=23&page=1


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 7, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Putting it simply, a Therianthrope is someone who carries a soul of another earthen animal. Some believe throughout each lifetime they collect memories or souls which follow them to this day. Others believe that they are animals that were just placed in the wrong body. Either way, it's a gift. There are many other beliefs on to why someone has this trait. Anyways, some believe that when the animal dies it's soul can harvest itself in another body at birth, others believe that sometimes the souls merge with theirs, and some even believe it happened just by accident.
> 
> those are just some beliefs. You can find out more here http://project-shift.org/are-you-a-therian/
> and I still go by the older/out dated definitions  here:
> http://spiritualawaken.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=shapeshift&action=display&thread=23&page=1



Sorry, but that's more related to Otherkin-ism than Therianthropy. 



			
				from the Therian Wikia said:
			
		

> Therianthropy: The belief that a person has a deep spiritual or mental connection to a certain animal, this is usually an animal current or extinct on Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Trying to find old chatlogs from AHWW, but none are popping up.

Edit: Found an old FAQ archive.


----------



## Conker (Aug 7, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Putting it simply, a Therianthrope is someone who carries a soul of another earthen animal. Some believe throughout each lifetime they collect memories or souls which follow them to this day. Others believe that they are animals that were just placed in the wrong body. Either way, it's a gift. There are many other beliefs on to why someone has this trait. Anyways, some believe that when the animal dies it's soul can harvest itself in another body at birth, others believe that sometimes the souls merge with theirs, and some even believe it happened just by accident.


It's very optimistic of you to call that a "gift."


----------



## lupinealchemist (Aug 7, 2012)

Maintaining a pack mentality online is unrealistic in my opinion since you can't take people on the internet at face value. I also think it's unwise attracting minors in an online therian "pack" for fear of negative attention from both children and the law.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 7, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Sorry, but that's more related to Otherkin-ism than Therianthropy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah sorry, I wasnt very good at explaining so I just picked something of the internet. :/



lupinealchemist said:


> Maintaining a pack mentality online is unrealistic in my opinion since you can't take people on the internet at face value. I also think it's unwise attracting minors in an online therian "pack" for fear of negative attention from both children and the law.


I am not looking to start a pack online. I'm hoping that i can find others like myself who have packs and also help those who wish to start a pack in their area. I have a pack.


----------



## Kahoku (Aug 7, 2012)

triage said:


> is this real



Same thread, same user, different name.

Moving along....


----------



## Elim Garak (Aug 8, 2012)

Harbinger said:


> <--- has no idea what a Thea-Thorian is and too tired to google.



Basically nut cases. I AM FEMALE FOX TRAPPED IN AN OBESE MAN.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 8, 2012)

Elim Garak said:


> Basically nut cases. I AM FEMALE FOX TRAPPED IN AN OBESE MAN.



Thats a bit harsh to call us nut cases. It's really not that at all,  It's a connection between the animal within, feeling trapped is more so otherkin related. I enjoy both human form and my fur. There is  no real doubt or helpless feeling for me at least.


----------



## Kosdu (Aug 8, 2012)

Elim Garak said:


> Basically nut cases. I AM FEMALE FOX TRAPPED IN AN OBESE MAN.




Different people have different beliefs, really.
It is not insanity, though I bet some insane people do believe themselves to be that, when they are not.

It would be wise to not call others insane, when they are not. 
Quite annoying, that.


----------



## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 8, 2012)

So I guess I'm weird for finding nothing wrong with this.


----------



## Brazen (Aug 8, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Thats a bit harsh to call us nut cases. It's really not that at all,  It's a connection between the animal within, feeling trapped is more so otherkin related. I enjoy both human form and my fur. There is  no real doubt or helpless feeling for me at least.



Nah dude, u mad.

And by that I mean you're insane, and not angry. You probably are angry now, but that's not what I'm referring to.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 8, 2012)

Brazen said:


> Nah dude, u mad.
> 
> And by that I mean you're insane, and not angry. You probably are angry now, but that's not what I'm referring to.



Unless she and her friends strip naked outside, soak themselves in pigs blood, sacrifice virgins while having sex with dogs, and dance like a bunch of crakheads around a fire, it's not crazy. Sure a bit outlandish to some... :V

Did I cover most of the cult behavior...?


----------



## Brazen (Aug 8, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Unless she and her friends strip naked outside, soak themselves in pigs blood, sacrifice virgins while having sex with dogs, and dance like a bunch of crakheads around a fire, it's not crazy. Sure a bit outlandish to some... :V
> 
> Did I cover most of the cult behavior...?



You didn't cover the part where he takes small children into a forest at night under the pretense that they're a family.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 8, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Unless she and her friends strip naked outside, soak themselves in pigs blood, sacrifice virgins while having sex with dogs, and dance like a bunch of crakheads around a fire, it's not crazy. Sure a bit outlandish to some... :V
> 
> Did I cover most of the cult behavior...?


Thank you.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 8, 2012)

Brazen said:


> You didn't cover the part where he takes small children into a forest at night under the pretense that they're a family.



You could just say Charles manson.



ClassicFAIL said:


> Thank you.



And if any of your members suggest doing that, remind them it is a class 2 felony. :V


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 8, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> And if any of your members suggest doing that, remind them it is a class 2 felony. :V


haha i'll keep that in mind.We won't be doing any of that hahaha


----------



## Elim Garak (Aug 8, 2012)

I suppose it's not crazier than people believing in the invisible man in the sky(God/Allah).


----------



## Jakk9000 (Aug 8, 2012)

religion always awkward.


----------



## Conker (Aug 8, 2012)

Kosdu said:


> Different people have different beliefs, really.


While that may be true, it doesn't change the fact that some beliefs are completely wrong or straight up retarded.


----------



## Kosdu (Aug 8, 2012)

Conker said:


> While that may be true, it doesn't change the fact that some beliefs are completely wrong or straight up retarded.



The view of them depends on the person; just because you think they are wrong, are they?
Same goes with the retardation. 


The best way to judge a religion is how people practice it, therians tend to do good on that one.


----------



## Conker (Aug 8, 2012)

Kosdu said:


> The view of them depends on the person; just because you think they are wrong, are they?
> Same goes with the retardation.
> 
> 
> The best way to judge a religion is how people practice it, therians tend to do good on that one.


Depends on how subjective/objective the view is. Some people believe evolution is false. They are wrong (and probably near the retarded end of the spectrum). Believing you are an animal trapped inside a person is retarded (and an actual mental illness I believe), though I'm not quite sure if the OP has specifically described himself as that. 

I also wouldn't call therianism a religion. It's more a spirituality; religion kind of implies big groups, money, and control.


----------



## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 8, 2012)

Conker said:


> Depends on how subjective/objective the view is. Some people believe evolution is false. They are wrong (and probably near the retarded end of the spectrum). Believing you are an animal trapped inside a person is retarded (and an actual mental illness I believe), though I'm not quite sure if the OP has specifically described himself as that.
> 
> I also wouldn't call therianism a religion. It's more a spirituality; religion kind of implies big groups, money, and control.


Eh...mental illness doesn't objectively mean it's a bad thing to believe


----------



## Ilayas (Aug 8, 2012)

This is Tides said:


> Eh...mental illness doesn't objectively mean it's a bad thing to believe



I would really like you to try and support that statement because I want to see your logic behind it.


----------



## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 8, 2012)

Ilayas said:


> I would really like you to try and support that statement because I want to see your logic behind it.


Mental Illnesses are considered disruptions in the standard daily function of human thought
Some disruptions aren't necessarily negative when it comes to living nowadays
Say before when one had to worry specifically about food sex shelter and the human life was based on the primal need for survival, these mental illnesses would be problematic
However, now that there's not that need, the term really kind of plays in a bit of a weird way...what I was told when I was suffering from anxiety at its' peak was that it's only a mental disorder if it is truly disturbing my daily life and making it difficult to function. It did.
What he's referring to (believing you're an animal inside spiritually) can be considered a mental illness, however as a mental disorder it's...well, it's not one. It disrupts the natural cycle of human function, but in a society where we don't necessarily need it as definitively, they're not exactly the same thing. They function with it and benefit from having that interest, save the public opinion of it.

Please correct me if I said anything self-contradictory


----------



## Conker (Aug 8, 2012)

This is Tides said:


> Mental Illnesses are considered disruptions in the standard daily function of human thought
> Some disruptions aren't necessarily negative when it comes to living nowadays
> Say before when one had to worry specifically about food sex shelter and the human life was based on the primal need for survival, these mental illnesses would be problematic
> However, now that there's not that need, the term really kind of plays in a bit of a weird way...what I was told when I was suffering from anxiety at its' peak was that it's only a mental disorder if it is truly disturbing my daily life and making it difficult to function. It did.
> ...


I read that once, and I guess it kind of makes sense. Still, I wouldn't call a mental illness a "good thing" even if it doesn't negatively disrupt your life.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 8, 2012)

Conker said:


> I read that once, and I guess it kind of makes sense. Still, I wouldn't call a mental illness a "good thing" even if it doesn't negatively disrupt your life.


I would like to hear logic at to how being a therian is a mental illness? Other then "having an animal trapped inside you." Well, if that is your only argument then, are transgenders mentally ill since they feel they were born into the wrong body?


----------



## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 8, 2012)

Conker said:


> I read that once, and I guess it kind of makes sense. Still, I wouldn't call a mental illness a "good thing" even if it doesn't negatively disrupt your life.


I just want to know by what standards you're basing a good thing off of.


----------



## Conker (Aug 8, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> I would like to hear logic at to how being a therian is a mental illness? Other then "having an animal trapped inside you." Well, if that is your only argument then, are transgenders mentally ill since they feel they were born into the wrong body?


No, but I consider that different. I don't know how embryo development or hormones or any of that work, but a male person going "I feel like I should be a female" is different than a male person going "I feel like I should be a cat" simply because a male => female belief is still in the realm of "I feel human." The brain and body are fundamentally the same.

A transgender person also doesn't want to take a few steps down on the food chain, which I find more respectable in this comparison. 

I'm not sure the transgendered people of this forum would appreciate the comparison, but this forum never ceases to surprise me.



			
				This is Tides said:
			
		

> I just want to know by what standards you're basing a good thing off of.


Well, in this case, not needing to form a group of friends to call it a wolf pack to make you feel like a wolf. I don't know how feeling trapped in the wrong body wouldn't be classified as a negative disruption though.


----------



## cobalt-blue (Aug 8, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> I could go into a very long story on how I first found myself, but i'll just say this. WHen I was young, every young, I knew that I was different. I was bullied all my life for it, so eventually i hide myself, it was suffocating, torture even. Quite literally I felt empty and nervous all the time especially when i would shift. When I got to high school I just decided enough was enough and I let me be myself (sorry for quoting shinedown) It was as if I was reborn into a new life, my grades got better, I was happier, I was a totally different person. So, yeah, its affected my life. Sure, I lost some friends because of it. But, I also gained friendships, strong bonds, which i'm very thankful for.



It appears that not following the "animal inside" was more detrimental than actually accepting and exploring it.  Quite a step up from the normal "Iâ€™m a furry, should I come out?" question that is usually asked.  Then to share this with others and follow it up with creating a â€œpackâ€ is quite a commitment and accomplishment.  If the interactions within the pack are done with love and respect what does it hurt?  Its also quite brave to open their â€œpackâ€ up to FAF for critique.



 But remember that minors are a special protected class, the laws protecting them are quite unforgiving if broken.


----------



## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 8, 2012)

Conker said:


> Well, in this case, not needing to form a group of friends to call it a wolf pack to make you feel like a wolf. I don't know how feeling trapped in the wrong body *wouldn't be classified as a negative disruption though.*


I hate to use the five year old answer, but...

why?
She seems quite satisfied with her life and being with her group makes her happy. I don't see how this connection put her worse off

Also, the basic concept is still there. Different species...placement on food chain doesn't really mean that much, life still begins and ends.
There's no actual self benefits or drawbacks of believing you should have been born a different species. The concept I'm seeing here is that if it's not human, it's strange...well, rather I'm not understanding WHY wanting to be a different species is wrong


----------



## Kosdu (Aug 8, 2012)

The thing you have to realize is that even if you classify it as a mental illness, it (for the vast majority of people) causes no disbalities or harm; sometimes bringing about much good.


If you want to classify it as an eccentricy (no idea how to spell that), then go ahead. I think alot of people are crazy because of their beliefs, and I am not not talking religious.


Yes, I am a therian. Yes, I enjoy it and feel no shame about it.
I certainly have acquired no disabilities from it.


----------



## Brazen (Aug 9, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> I would like to hear logic at to how being a therian is a mental illness? Other then "having an animal trapped inside you." Well, if that is your only argument then, are transgenders mentally ill since they feel they were born into the wrong body?



Do you experience phantom limbs such as a tail? That's a breakdown of the part of the brain which maps your body for motor function purposes, neurological dysfunction.
Do you have mental shifts? I don't even know what that is from a mental perspective but I can't imagine someone suddenly dropping to all fours, running around and howling to be a symptom of good mental health.

Just several examples, not exactly debilitating mental illness but then again neither are most cases of OCD, the difference is those afflicted with OCD don't usually attach religious or spiritual significance to checking if the oven is off 10 times before leaving the house.

And yes, transgenderism is a mental disorder, I don't think anybody has disputed that.


----------



## BarlettaX (Aug 9, 2012)

Brazen said:


> Do you experience phantom limbs such as a tail? That's a breakdown of the part of the brain which maps your body for motor function purposes, neurological dysfunction.
> Do you have mental shifts? I don't even know what that is from a mental perspective but I can't imagine someone suddenly dropping to all fours, running around and howling to be a symptom of good mental health.
> 
> Just several examples, not exactly debilitating mental illness but then again neither are most cases of OCD, the difference is those afflicted with OCD don't usually attach religious or spiritual significance to checking if the oven is off 10 times before leaving the house.
> ...



I honestly doubt phantom limbs would have anything to do with it
o yeah, troll


----------



## Elim Garak (Aug 9, 2012)

BarlettaX said:


> I honestly doubt phantom limbs would have anything to do with it
> o yeah, troll


Actually some people claimed they felt tails etc.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 9, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> I would like to hear logic at to how being a therian is a mental illness? Other then "having an animal trapped inside you." Well, if that is your only argument then, are transgenders mentally ill since they feel they were born into the wrong body?



Species Dysphoria  for starters. If you feel that you are a "X animal trapped in a human body" it isn't Therianthropy.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 9, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> If you feel that you are a "X animal trapped in a human body" it isn't Therianthropy.


EXACTLY! Thats Oherkin related not Therianthropy.
Thats the point I've been trying to get across all night :/


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 9, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> EXACTLY! Thats Oherkin related not Therianthropy.
> Thats the point I've been trying to get across all night :/



Understandable. 

The problem with Therianthropy is people who try to make it out to be something related to species dysphoria...or Dissasociative idenity Disorder which I have tried to explain but it always ends in a copout of "if you ask 7 people the meaning you get multiple answers" which insinuates that people pick and choose what they want it to be because the original definition doesn't satisfy them at all.

Also, stay away from the Therian Temple...that "cult" is on the same par with Scientology.


----------



## ClassicFAIL (Aug 9, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Understandable.
> 
> The problem with Therianthropy is people who try to make it out to be something related to species dysphoria...or Dissasociative idenity Disorder which I have tried to explain but it always ends in a copout of "if you ask 7 people the meaning you get multiple answers" which insinuates that people pick and choose what they want it to be because the original definition doesn't satisfy them at all.
> 
> Also, stay away from the Therian Temple...that "cult" is on the same par with Scientology.



I'll keep that in mind... that sounds....Scary :/

I find it very hard to locate an all around general deffination of therian when others ask why it is... I just scare my experiences in hopes that the get a general idea :/ sometimes it works.... most times but still.


----------



## Ozriel (Aug 9, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> I'll keep that in mind... that sounds....Scary :/
> 
> I find it very hard to locate an all around general deffination of therian when others ask why it is... I just scare my experiences in hopes that the get a general idea :/ sometimes it works.... most times but still.



The best way to find the general definition of it is to look for any archive or website dating back betweeen 1992 to 2003-5. The FAQ that I linked is the closest thing to a streamline and straightforward definition.


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## Rilvor (Aug 9, 2012)

BarlettaX said:


> I honestly doubt phantom limbs would have anything to do with it
> o yeah, troll



Disregarding an argument, whether it is made by a troll or someone else, with a childish response is not a social contribution in the slightest. In fact, if anything it sullies the thread more than silly arguments.


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## Conker (Aug 9, 2012)

This is Tides said:


> I hate to use the five year old answer, but...
> 
> why?
> She seems quite satisfied with her life and being with her group makes her happy. I don't see how this connection put her worse off
> ...


Actually, I"d say the crux of my problem has to do with the "food chain." To put it simply: animals are stupid. Humans are stupid sure, but not in the way animals are. My cat chases around lights and tries to eat them. He's stupid. Dogs chase cars. They're stupid. Why you'd want to go from a species with thumbs and the mental capacity to land on the moon and send a probe to Mars to explore is just beyond me.

Sure, I get home and look at my cats and go "man, it would be awesome to be a cat. They just sit around and sleep" but I don't ever really mean that. I may never amount to anything, but I'll still amount to more than a housecat. 

What's a wolf to a person? At best a pet, at worst an annoyance. A pest. Something to hunt for sport. 

Why anyone would want to be an inferior species is crazy. 

The fact that I have to try and explain why the sentence, "I wish I were a wolf because I feel like a wolf" is crazy is a thing that could only happen on the Internet.

But since the OP apparently isn't an Otherkin (something she posted earlier seemed to allude to that) then she's probably not crazy and just bizarre :V


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## Butters Shikkon (Aug 9, 2012)

Conker said:


> Actually, I"d say the crux of my problem has to do with the "food chain." To put it simply: animals are stupid. Humans are stupid sure, but not in the way animals are. My cat chases around lights and tries to eat them. He's stupid. Dogs chase cars. They're stupid. Why you'd want to go from a species with thumbs and the mental capacity to land on the moon and send a probe to Mars to explore is just beyond me.
> 
> Sure, I get home and look at my cats and go "man, it would be awesome to be a cat. They just sit around and sleep" but I don't ever really mean that. I may never amount to anything, but I'll still amount to more than a housecat.
> 
> ...



Well, what a thing means to one person can mean quite a different thing to another. I frankly _don't_ find inflation sexy but whew boy, quite a few ppl _do_ if the internet has taught us anything. So wolf= dumb pest to one guy, and wolf = noble hunter to another. 

Also, (just cuz this caught my eye) I somewhat pity my dogs. They just lay around all day doing nothing...boring lifestyle imo but good god I love em ^^ And bizarre is a good word of choice actually (google search definition anyway). I think that is a completely fair assessment. Why don't ppl use bizarre more? I love that word...


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 9, 2012)

Conker said:


> Actually, I"d say the crux of my problem has to do with the "food chain." To put it simply: animals are stupid. Humans are stupid sure, but not in the way animals are. My cat chases around lights and tries to eat them. He's stupid. Dogs chase cars. They're stupid. Why you'd want to go from a species with thumbs and the mental capacity to land on the moon and send a probe to Mars to explore is just beyond me.
> 
> Sure, I get home and look at my cats and go "man, it would be awesome to be a cat. They just sit around and sleep" but I don't ever really mean that. I may never amount to anything, but I'll still amount to more than a housecat.
> 
> ...


I don't care if i'm seen as bizarre. All my life i've been seen by everyone as an outcast, so why not embrace it and be myself.


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## cobalt-blue (Aug 9, 2012)

I don't think it a case of wants.  She deeply feels something , has tried to suppress it (unhappily), and now accepts and explores it.


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## Evan of Phrygia (Aug 9, 2012)

Conker said:


> Actually, I"d say the crux of my problem has to do with the "food chain." To put it simply: animals are stupid. Humans are stupid sure, but not in the way animals are. My cat chases around lights and tries to eat them. He's stupid. Dogs chase cars. They're stupid. Why you'd want to go from a species with thumbs and the mental capacity to land on the moon and send a probe to Mars to explore is just beyond me.
> 
> Sure, I get home and look at my cats and go "man, it would be awesome to be a cat. They just sit around and sleep" but I don't ever really mean that. I may never amount to anything, but I'll still amount to more than a housecat.
> 
> ...


Hrm...I understand that but that also seems rather one sided to view all animals as stupid and inferior

Being a human means giving up primal standards and survival instincts; you can't do that because it's no longer normal or necessary...

As an animal, you simply exist, really, exist as necessary, strive to find food, mate, and pass on your existence to the next generation...really when out of the house pet category, the life sounds rather attractive. No more harmful dimensions of thought, simply...living

I'm not sure I understand the standards of stupidity you're using either. So a cat can't do quantum physics; it was never really meant to in the first place. What it does is hold to its' primal instincts pretty well though.

But if you insist I see I'll have no luck with trying to give a second opinion


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## Not_a_Fox (Aug 9, 2012)

After reading pretty much everything up to this point of the thread, I can say that I see no harm in your activities to either yourself or those who participate.  Yet.  I say "yet" because things of this nature have a tendency to grow and become more then what you'd intend them to be.  A you've stated, OP, this started with four bored friends whom on a whim appointed two alphas and two betas; from there it's come to be a larger group of unrelated individuals of varying ages who meet on certain nights after hours in a park where you indulge in ritualistic activities and call each other family like.  It bares the beginnings of a cult.  Right now, it's no more then a get-together.  However, to call it a "pack" is needless.

A wolf pack entails two alphas, a beta, and the rest omegas.  The pack exists only to gain advantage in hunts, there exists no other females besides the alpha female, the beta being the only one to take the alpha position after besting the aging alpha in a fight, and all the omegas are uncared for followers whom get picked on by the others.  You and your friends do none of this.  To call your group a pack is but only for the words' tie to wolves.  But I don't see that as a problem, really; no, the problem I see arising is what can occur in most closely knit groups like this, and that is dependency.  A pack works well for actual wolves because they all have the one single goal of survival;  as humans, though, we do not have this.  Instead, it is replaced with social interaction.  The closer you get to these people, the more stressful you'll become.  Not wanting to disappoint, wanting to please, not wanting to cause disruption, wanting to aid in all problems, etc., you will carry the burdens that each one of them brings into the group from their home life let alone social lives outside the group.  From there, ritualistic things that you preform now will become more important, expanding perhaps since repetition can get stale.  

They are friends, nothing more.  You should keep it that way.

BONUS: While the discussion here has trailed off at times regarding your being a therian, here is my personal opinion.  I see such as an extreme form of escapism; a means to ignore the difficulties that life gives you by inventing a secondary specialness that trumps what life is with what you want life to be.  It's a dead in the water idea that keeps you from learning, overcoming and triumphing over life's hardships.  It making you feel good doesn't mean its' good for you.  You may not preach this to your group, but merely implanting the idea into them, especially the young and impressionable, you can easily convince them that this way is better then actually dealing with problems.


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## Conker (Aug 9, 2012)

This is Tides said:


> Hrm...I understand that but that also seems rather one sided to view all animals as stupid and inferior
> 
> Being a human means giving up primal standards and survival instincts; you can't do that because it's no longer normal or necessary...
> 
> ...


I'm not really sure humans were "meant" to do quantum physics either, but we sure figured that shit out. Collective "we" though; I don't know dick about quantum physics. 

See, you say "giving up primal instincts" but I say we've created a place where we've surpassed their need. I consider this to be a good thing. 

I think we're derailing the shit out of this thread now though 



			
				ClassicFail said:
			
		

> I don't care if i'm seen as bizarre. All my life i've been seen by everyone as an outcast, so why not embrace it and be myself.


Well good bloody luck to you then. Having spent the last year in the "real world" working, I can say that being yourself isn't always a wise thing.


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## Butters Shikkon (Aug 9, 2012)

Not_a_Fox said:


> BONUS: While the discussion here has trailed off at times regarding your being a therian, here is my personal opinion.  I see such as an extreme form of escapism; a means to ignore the difficulties that life gives you by inventing a secondary specialness that trumps what life is with what you want life to be.  It's a dead in the water idea that keeps you from learning, overcoming and triumphing over life's hardships.  It making you feel good doesn't mean its' good for you.  You may not preach this to your group, but merely implanting the idea into them, especially the young and impressionable, you can easily convince them that this way is better then actually dealing with problems.



Oh, I like this post...i don't fully agree with it, mind you, but it isn't a bad argument.

Though I suppose without the imagination part of escapism, we could not have any poetry, books, songs, movies, etc. We would lose all "magic" in the world. Like in _Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Clause, _without such fantasy we could not make bright of such a dreary existence. Shooting stars wouldn't exist, we'd only have space dust conformed into a mass burning up in the atmosphere...Let us never give up ability to dream.


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## Conker (Aug 9, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> Oh, I like this post...i don't fully agree with it, mind you, but it isn't a bad argument.
> 
> Though I suppose without the imagination part of escapism, we could not have any poetry, books, songs, movies, etc. We would lose all "magic" in the world. Like in _Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Clause, _without such fantasy we could not make bright of such a dreary existence. Shooting stars wouldn't exist, we'd only have space dust conformed into a mass burning up in the atmosphere...Let us never give up ability to dream.


There's a difference between doing something productive with your dreams and confusing them with reality though.

There's nothing wrong with escapism (if I remember my Psych 100 class correctly, it's a way to cope with stress and life), but when you confuse your escapist fantasies with reality, you've a problem.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 10, 2012)

Ok guys well it's been a blast, but this thread is getting way to long and pretty off topic.
If anyone wants to know about my experiences and a therian or has any questions about my pack, please PM me.


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## Not_a_Fox (Aug 10, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> Oh, I like this post...i don't fully agree with it, mind you, but it isn't a bad argument.
> 
> Though I suppose without the imagination part of escapism, we could not have any poetry, books, songs, movies, etc. We would lose all "magic" in the world. Like in _Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Clause, _without such fantasy we could not make bright of such a dreary existence. Shooting stars wouldn't exist, we'd only have space dust conformed into a mass burning up in the atmosphere...Let us never give up ability to dream.



Hence "extreme" form of escapism.  It would be quite hypocritical of me, being a furry, to say escapism in general is bad.  I do believe Conker summed it well enough, it blurring the line between fantasy and reality can inevitably cause problems.


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## Rilvor (Aug 10, 2012)

This is Tides said:


> Hrm...I understand that but that also seems rather one sided to view all animals as stupid and inferior
> 
> Being a human means giving up primal standards and survival instincts; you can't do that because it's no longer normal or necessary...
> 
> ...


Intelligence and stupidity is a man-created concept used to weigh the mind of humanity. By its very definition animals are automatically excluded. In essence, yes it is fair to call every animal "stupid" in a comparison to the minds of humanity. But that does not mean animals are stupid in a comparison to themselves, for example some dogs can do very little while others have learned some rather surprising feats.


Butterflygoddess16 said:


> Oh, I like this post...i don't fully agree with it, mind you, but it isn't a bad argument.
> 
> Though I suppose without the imagination part of escapism, we could not have any poetry, books, songs, movies, etc. We would lose all "magic" in the world. Like in _Yes, Virginia there is a Santa Clause, _without such fantasy we could not make bright of such a dreary existence. Shooting stars wouldn't exist, we'd only have space dust conformed into a mass burning up in the atmosphere...Let us never give up ability to dream.


I take disagreement to the idea that existence is dreary. Without fantasy we all still have each other, and perhaps if we all treated each other more fairly we would begin to realize that such dreariness is self-imposed.


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## Butters Shikkon (Aug 10, 2012)

Not_a_Fox said:


> Hence "extreme" form of escapism.  It would be quite hypocritical of me, being a furry, to say escapism in general is bad.  I do believe Conker summed it well enough, it blurring the line between fantasy and reality can inevitably cause problems.



Absolutely true. I just felt like pointing out that the realm of what is and what might be are beneficial to one another and really couldn't exist without their respective opposite. (Also, the blurring the line b/w fantasy and reality is why I think Rocky Horror is deep and nobody else thinks so T^T But that's a thread for another day XD) 

@Rilvor, I must say you always bring the light back to the darkness...(if you get what I mean) I do envy your faith in man's ultimate nature, it makes me want to write for protagonists again, but again, another thread for another day. 

Also, another round in your favor, Rilv...I'll have the ball in my court one day, and then I'll tan your oily hide!!! :evil: (But seriously, well put. I'm gonna brainstorm a bit...)


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## Brazen (Aug 10, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> Ok guys well it's been a blast, but this thread is getting way to long and pretty off topic.
> If anyone wants to know about my experiences and a therian or has any questions about my pack, please PM me.



"Uh oh, people are starting to challenge my lifestyle, better claim off-topic and leave before acusatory fingers start pointing".


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## Kosdu (Aug 10, 2012)

Brazen said:


> "Uh oh, people are starting to challenge my lifestyle, better claim off-topic and leave before acusatory fingers start pointing".




Troll be trollin', mon


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## Conker (Aug 11, 2012)

Kosdu said:


> Troll be trollin', mon


Pointing out the obvious in a dissenting way =/= trolling I'm afraid :[


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## Crassadon (Aug 13, 2012)

hehe~ This sounds like fun!


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