# Piracy.



## ChaoticSpark (Apr 17, 2010)

This could go in a few forums, but I feel that this is the forum that'd gather the most responses.

1) Do you pirate (circumvent copyright protection/break copyright law to use a particular multimedia form for free)?

2) Why/Why not?


I'm just curious, is all.


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## Runefox (Apr 17, 2010)

1) Yes. See 2)

2) Usually, not unless I can't find it/afford it otherwise, and in that case, I usually purchase the things I like later if I can anyway. Emulation-related paraphernalia is the exception, and even though it's available (and I've pretty much admitted to having them), I still prefer to buy new games I like - Credit where it's due. Insofar as emulation is concerned, I mainly collect for the sake of posterity and being able to come back to it later on down the road. I _will_ refuse to purchase titles that have been re-released in a different medium without any modification (Virtual Console/etc). Be it a legal grey area or even black area, I see it as the same as buying vinyl, then eight-track, then tapes, then CD's, then DRM'd MP3's. In my mind, if you own it once, you've already paid your dues. There's unfortunately no way to manage previous ownership on the commercial side of things, so everyone pays the tax again regardless.

Buying games used doesn't support the publisher or developer one bit, either - Even (especially) when games are sold for $5 less on new releases, they see none of that money. I am unsympathetic where items which are out of print and no longer available anywhere new are concerned, even if it violates copyright law. Do the people behind them a favour - Buy your games new. If they don't exist new, you can't support the developers anyway. It's true that used games sales are a major reason why stores like EB and GameStop exist and thrive, but they're also taking large sums away from the people who actually make the games by selling used games as aggressively as they do. It would be like a video rental store renting a movie that just opened in theatres - For $5, you can get what would likely end up to be $20 (or at least $10 for the ticket, _per person_), while the studio that produced the movie gets nothing but a single DVD/Blu-Ray sale (which translates into hundreds of rentals and eventual second-hand sale). There's a reason why there are regulations in place for this at the box office. There are none in the game market.

Of course, there's always that satisfaction with having a real cartridge or original disc for an old/rare title. That's certainly worth something, too.


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## Skittle (Apr 17, 2010)

1) Yes
2) I am a PC gamer (mostly) and I really can't test out a game if there is no beta before buying it. Generally if I find the game enjoyable I will buy it. The only other thing I pirate is music and that is because I prefer foreign music and I'm not paying $50+ for an imported CD. Movies are a different matter, like to see if it is any good before dropping money on it, like games.


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## Sauvignon (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes, because my favorite show is not available through any reasonable legal means in this country.


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## Alaskan Wolf (Apr 17, 2010)

Only thing I ever did pirate was Sony Vegas, and that's only because I needed some decent video editing software, and I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for it.

I'm also considering pirating Photoshop, because I can't find any decent help online with paint.net.


I don't pirate games or music though. The developers (usually) deserve the money they ask for making their music/games. Though, if EA thinks I'm paying $60 for a PC game, then they are the reason I might pirate a god-damned game.


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## Skittle (Apr 17, 2010)

Alaskan Wolf said:


> Only thing I ever did pirate was Sony Vegas, and that's only because I needed some decent video editing software, and I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for it.
> 
> I'm also considering pirating Photoshop, because I can't find any decent help online with paint.net.
> 
> ...


..Why is $60 too much for a PC game? That is $10 more than normal. OOOHH NOOOES.

Also, use Gimp. Open-source FTW.


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## Runefox (Apr 17, 2010)

...? $60? Around here we pay $59.99 for console games, $69.99 for PC games. (EDIT: Actually, some console games that sell for $59.99 in the 'States are selling here for $64.99)

... Our dollar is $0.01 off from the US dollar, which literally means a smooth ($5-)$10 extra profit from Canadians.

*Stop complaining.*


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## Skittle (Apr 17, 2010)

Runefox said:


> ...? $60? Around here we pay $59.99 for console games, $69.99 for PC games.
> 
> ... Our dollar is $0.01 off from the US dollar, which literally means a smooth $10 extra profit from Canadians.
> 
> *Stop complaining.*


Haha. It's generally $49.99 for PC games and $59.99 for console games. Maybe PC gaming is MUCH more popular in Canada than in the US and that is why the prices are reversed?


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## Runefox (Apr 17, 2010)

skittle said:


> Maybe PC gaming is MUCH more popular in Canada than in the US and that is why the prices are reversed?



I dunno, but Steam makes it all better.

(Yes, I know that Steam = Digital distribution, which = No guarantee it'll work tomorrow, but at the very least I have the games, and they can generally be modified to break away from Steam if that (unlikely) need arises)


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## Skittle (Apr 17, 2010)

Runefox said:


> I dunno, but Steam makes it all better.
> 
> (Yes, I know that Steam = Digital distribution, which = No guarantee it'll work tomorrow, but at the very least I have the games, and they can generally be modified to break away from Steam if that (unlikely) need arises)


I love Steam. My husband and I were on post yesterday and the PX was selling the ORIGINAL Bioshock for PC for $50 still. I nearly died laughing.


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## Smelge (Apr 17, 2010)

1) Yes and no
2) I pirate some games, my most recent was GTA: San Andreas. I feel no remorse, because I already bought the game years ago, and the disc is in a different country. Usually, I'll pirate games if I've already owned them. Everything I have on Steam is legal, and all my EA games were free, but that was their own fault (Mirrors Edge/Mercs2/Dead Space were Â£14.99 each with a Â£15 off if you buy all 3 at once. Then EA reduced all three games to Â£4.99 each but forgot to remove the discount for all three = free games).

Music and films, I download. If they're shit, I'll get rid of them. If I like, I'll buy it. I don't see why I should pay money to go see a terrible film. If I like it, I'll go watch in the cinema and probably buy the DVD. If I don't, giving them any money would just encourage them to make more shite like it.


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## AshleyAshes (Apr 17, 2010)

1)  Yes

2)  I like free stuff.  That said I don't always pirate.  Some things I love enough that I dig up the real copies.  Lemmings for PSP I have the UMD for.  I collected up most of the PS1 and PS2 light gun games.  I buy arcade ports off of Xbox Live Arcade to support the developers and foster additional titles.  If Sega is going to put fairly modern coinops online for $5-15 I'll buy them in hopes that Sega will continue.  These titles are not cash cow blockbusters wither so every purchase counts.  On the other hand, you wouldn't see me feeling bad about pirating a major blockbuster game that I just want to play to kill some time.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 17, 2010)

technically not a crime here, so bleah


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## Shiralith (Apr 17, 2010)

Yeah, I pirate music, games and Ipod apps. I couldn't possibly afford all of the music I download, the games I download have been out of production for ten to thirty years, and I can't get apps as I can't use Itunes cards.


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## CaptainCool (Apr 17, 2010)

1. it depends. sometimes 
2. i play console games most of the time these days and my 360 is not modded. imported games from england cost me about 40â‚¬, depending on whether i get them for the wii or 360 and on how old they are already (i got gears 1 for 12â‚¬ for example!).
if a publisher throws a good deal at me i buy the game. for example, on last helloween team fortress 2 was available for just 1â‚¬. so i got it twice. one copy for me and one for a pal 
but if the publisher is doing bullshit (extremely high price, DRM shit, DLC thats already on the disc etc...) i just download the game. or of its a game that i only want to try before i buy it (see it as a full demo of the game). or a game where i know that ill play it for only like 4 hours (portal), that is not worth paying 40 bucks for imo.

so in conclusion: if the devs/publishers treat me nicely i buy their stuff. if they try to rip me off i pirate their shit 

i love the BSA and never pirate anything


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## MitchZer0 (Apr 17, 2010)

1. of course

2. I want to enjoy the best in life free


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## Duality Jack (Apr 17, 2010)

leets call this the  "admit to crimes" thread then :V


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## Takun (Apr 17, 2010)

I pirate music and I buy a lot of music.  I don't pirate games because I rarely play them.  Last one I bought was Pokemon Heart Gold and before that I don't know.  Don't own the current gen and don't care.  Mehhhhh.


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## SnowFox (Apr 17, 2010)

I download people's cars and TV's.

It started out with music and games, now I'm a hardened criminal.


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## Taren Fox (Apr 17, 2010)

SnowFox said:


> I download people's cars and TV's.
> 
> It started out with music and games, now I'm a hardened criminal.


You need to shoot a PSA.


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## Scotty1700 (Apr 17, 2010)

In my eyes pirating a PC game is alright as it normally excludes you from the multiplayer....it's sorta like a beta if you will.


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## Runefox (Apr 17, 2010)

Scotty1700 said:


> it's sorta like a beta if you will.



This annoys me. Since when are demos "betas"? Once upon a time, whole sections of games were available for free to try, and nowadays you'll spend thirty minutes downloading a demo that gives you scarcely three in gameplay. This is pretty much precisely why I do download some games in their entirety beforehand to try.

Whatever happened to shareware? I grew up on that concept, and all of my favourite games had shareware versions that I downloaded and enjoyed before buying the full "registered" versions. I suppose it's just not profitable? But when you're talking in some cases gigabytes for game demos that barely demo anything, it's such a monumental waste of time and bandwidth to bother with them, if they even exist at all. In fact, EA is currently evaluating *charging* for demo software. Seriously? Not only that, but many demos are only available to people who pre-order the game ahead of time under the guise of a "beta", like Bad Company 2 was. In other words, only after you fully purchase the game without any possibility for remuneration will you get to try it out. Lovely!


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## Rai Toku (Apr 17, 2010)

1. Depends.
2. Generally, I use limewire to get music. Console games, I'll buy if I feel the need to get the game, even look around Ebay sometimes -if I can't afford it/find it, I don't play it. I've bought a few games off Steam, namely Half-Life, Opposing Force, and Blue Shift (which craps out on loading screens for no apparent reason). Otherwise, I'll use emulators for handhelds I don't have and can't afford in any decent time frame, for old Super Nintendo games that cost loads on Ebay, or for GBA games I simply can't find anywhere else. Mostly, though, I play F2P MMO's.

3... I miss shareware games. T.T Sure, we never bought the games, but I'd have loved to have the full versions of some of them. Like Descent, Jazz the Jackrabbit, and One Must Fall 2097.


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## Carenath (Apr 17, 2010)

Alaskan Wolf said:


> Only thing I ever did pirate was Sony Vegas, and that's only because I needed some decent video editing software, and I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for it.
> 
> I don't pirate games or music though. The developers (usually) deserve the money they ask for making their music/games. Though, if EA thinks I'm paying $60 for a PC game, then they are the reason I might pirate a god-damned game.


And the award for Contradicting oneself in their post goes to..

Also.. this is probably not the smartest move going..


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## CrispSkittlez (Apr 17, 2010)

I rarely pirate stuff, mostly because I don't trust my computer to not explode.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Apr 17, 2010)

1) Yes.
2) Well, single player games aren't worth paying for. Multiplayer games? Either I'll get it to test, then buy, or I'll just get it and play with a few buddies for a few days over emulated network. But really, I sorta find it funny that some people are 100% agaisn't piracy. It's awesome! But really. On multiplayer that doesn't have a demo or something, I'll download it, then buy it. If it's a SP game, and that I really love it, I may buy it to support the devs. 

Software related? : I don't feel like paying.
Music? It's legal. And even if it wasn't, I would still download thousands of music.


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## scythemouse (Apr 17, 2010)

The trouble with the pirating of PC games is that unlike most console games, once they're off the shelf, they're gone. No leftovers and especially no used games. This is why I worry that Star Trek Online will be out of print before I can get a computer that can play it.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Apr 17, 2010)

scythemouse said:


> The trouble with the pirating of PC games is that unlike most console games, once they're off the shelf, they're gone. No leftovers and especially no used games. This is why I worry that Star Trek Online will be out of print before I can get a computer that can play it.



When there's no copies left, you pirate! _'cause you're a pirate_


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## AshleyAshes (Apr 17, 2010)

scythemouse said:


> The trouble with the pirating of PC games is that unlike most console games, once they're off the shelf, they're gone. No leftovers and especially no used games. This is why I worry that Star Trek Online will be out of print before I can get a computer that can play it.


 
Firstly, PC games linger for years in the bargian bin.  Secondly, so long as STO is up and running you'll always be able to get a copy, even if you just have to download it directly from STO.


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## Bittertooth (Apr 17, 2010)

scythemouse said:


> The trouble with the pirating of PC games is that unlike most console games, once they're off the shelf, they're gone. No leftovers and especially no used games. This is why I worry that Star Trek Online will be out of print before I can get a computer that can play it.


Good Old Games lets you buy older PC games that would normally be tough to find nowadays.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 17, 2010)

Let us be technical for a moment.

Piracy under US law is now defined as using things in a format not allowed.  Ripping a CD may be considered piracy.


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## AshleyAshes (Apr 17, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> Let us be technical for a moment.
> 
> Piracy under US law is now defined as using things in a format not allowed. Ripping a CD may be considered piracy.


 
How about we use it in the more broader sense of the term of 'Getting shit you didn't pay for'.


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## Carenath (Apr 17, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> Let us be technical for a moment.
> 
> Piracy under US law is now defined as using things in a format not allowed.  Ripping a CD may be considered piracy.


And US law is a shining example of fair and impartial judiciary with zero curruption or examples of people being jailed and having their lives ruined over nothing, yep.

Also brb.. busy forwarding the IP addresses and timestamps of everyone here who admitted to pirating to the BSA and related bodies for the reward money


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## Runefox (Apr 17, 2010)

Here in Canadaland, piracy of music is more or less tolerated though not explicitly legal. The right to create and own backup copies of media is guaranteed by our (current) laws, and this is exemplified by a levy imposed upon all writable media (tape cassettes, VHS, CD-R/RW, DVD-R/RW/+R/RW, etc) and potentially soon to be imposed upon MP3 players, paid to the CRIA/etc. In this regard, I feel somewhat entitled, given that the levy is imposed regardless of intended use, to download (but not distribute, which *is* explicitly illegal) music - But not to worry, none of the music I listen to is actually covered by any North American labels anyway. Of course, that doesn't stop the CRIA and the United States of America from branding Canada as a part of a so-called copyright axis of evil.


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## kyle19 (Apr 17, 2010)

1. Yes
2. Old PC games that you cant find in stores. Music that is not sold in the U.S. or is old vinyls that someone transferred to mp3. And Anime because it's expensive to buy the series.


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## CyberFoxx (Apr 17, 2010)

1: Yes
2: I regularly break copy protection schemes just to get a better gaming experience. Removal CD/DVD checks (Although I will admit I don't mind this type of copy protection, along with CD-Keys), running fully off HD, removing bloated and performance robbing copy protection schemes, etc. Plus, I tend to make copies of the original install discs and put the originals away for safe keeping, so add "breaking the copy protection to make a disc image" to the list as well.
I also admit to downloading games, but I will also admit that all games that I have played for more then an hour or so and found enjoyable, I have actually went out and bought. (Stalker, Oblivion, Neverwinter Nights, etc) I have also downloaded games that just plain are not available in my area. I would love to buy and own these games, but I've yet to find a way to. (Sadly, "Will not ship to Canada!" is still a problem.)


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## Duality Jack (Apr 17, 2010)

I pirate then if I find it enjoyable I buy it. I do not feel like wasting money on shit.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 17, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> How about we use it in the more broader sense of the term of 'Getting shit you didn't pay for'.



Well, the only reason I pointed that out is because it is all dependant on the laws in your area, isn't it?  

According to the laws of my area, I rip DVDs for my Ipad, so yes, I am committing a crime.

But do I get shit I don't pay for?  No.  But then again, that doesn't really matter in a court of law 

So yes, I guess I do piracy


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## GraemeLion (Apr 17, 2010)

Carenath said:


> And US law is a shining example of fair and impartial judiciary with zero curruption or examples of people being jailed and having their lives ruined over nothing, yep.
> 
> Also brb.. busy forwarding the IP addresses and timestamps of everyone here who admitted to pirating to the BSA and related bodies for the reward money



No, but it is the law, even as much as it sucks, so the answer for me is kinda limited to yes


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## Carenath (Apr 19, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Of course, that doesn't stop the CRIA and the United States of America from branding Canada as a part of a so-called copyright axis of evil.


This is because America lets that 1% of their population dictate their domestic and foreign policy on copyright, and, abuses it's position on the world stage to force other countries to capitulate.. or just ride roughshod over other countries soverignty. One might be forgiven for thinking US Law = World Law.



GraemeLion said:


> No, but it is the law, even as much as it sucks, so the answer for me is kinda limited to yes


I was being sarcastic about it.. America's legal system is abismal.

Im a strong believer in reforming copyright to bring a fair balance between the rights of the users and the rights of the content-creators.


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## Fuzzy Alien (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes, because I'm stickin' it to the man!

Also, very relevant.


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## Chmat (Apr 19, 2010)

_yo-ho, yo-ho. A pirate's life for me!_

Yes, I download. But only stuff that isn't in the stores anymore. Like games and old movies.

I download new movies too, but if I like them I'll recommend my parents to buy them saying "I wanna see that movie! It seems to be cool". And then they sooner or later rent/buy the movie. 

I'm not allowed to download stuff. But I don't care. I'm doing all kinds of shit on the net and never get any malware, but my bro can open a pic of a potato and get a shitton of stuff! :V


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## Riley (Apr 19, 2010)

I downloaded Starcraft after a school laptop's DVD drive scratched my disk up beyond repair, which I'm pretty sure is legal.  And I often pirate the soundtrack to a game I buy, because I figure that if I spent 50 bucks on the game I'm entitled to listen to the music from it, without paying an extra $25.


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## Taren Fox (Apr 19, 2010)

Alaskan Wolf said:


> Only thing I ever did pirate was Sony Vegas, and that's only because I needed some decent video editing software, and I'm not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for it.
> 
> I'm also considering pirating Photoshop, because I can't find any decent help online with paint.net.
> 
> ...


Sony Vegas is the shit. It's what I use for most of my editing.


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## Verin Asper (Apr 19, 2010)

Its legal if you bought a copy

but I'm enjoying my pirated C&C4, I can play single player


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## Ranzun the Dragon-Shark (Apr 19, 2010)

Everyone's a pirate now >.>


Back in those days, they used to be something special


Yes, if you own a copy it's legal. Most downloading sites are "legal" because of it, although people take advantage of it.


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## Onewing (Apr 19, 2010)

I used to back with the PS1 just because I was a kid and didn't have money.
As soon as I started working and could buy stuff, I did.


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## Dasaki (Apr 20, 2010)

Yes I pirate games, music and movies.

Mainly older games like Hexen 2 (birthday gift to an uncle). I did dowload spore to see if it was any good, got addicted for about a week then got very bored with it. Paid full retail for my copy of oblivion pre GOTY and pirated the expansions. Curently looking for Age of Mythology, I own a legal copy, but one of the disks got stepped on or something and snapped almost in half so it's worthless.
Music, pretty much anything I feel like listening to at the time.
Movies, exclusively old movies like the Dead Next Door and Biker Chicks in Zombie Town (old cheesy zombie films FTW).


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## DJ-Fragon (Apr 20, 2010)

I download all the necessary means to achieving all that I cherish in life... all for free! 

Why? The system always has its flaws. So, why not?


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## Maxwell (Apr 20, 2010)

Alaskan Wolf said:


> I don't pirate games or music though. The developers (usually) deserve the money they ask for making their music/games. Though, if EA thinks I'm paying $60 for a PC game, then they are the reason I might pirate a god-damned game.



HTFU. Here we pay upwards of 100$ AU for a game. Thats >110$ USD, almost double the price. I would rejoice if games here were sold for 60$.


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## Foxstar (Apr 20, 2010)

No.

I don't have a overwhelming sense of entitlement that I must have whatever I want when I want. If I want to try a game, I rent it, or read no less then 20 reviews for the game if it's on PC. If I like it, I buy it.


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## HyBroMcYenapants (Apr 20, 2010)

Foxstar said:


> No.
> 
> I don't have a overwhelming sense of entitlement that I must have whatever I want when I want. If I want to try a game, I rent it, or read no less then 20 reviews for the game if it's on PC. If I like it, I buy it.



You're black.


Don't give me that bro.


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## Tewin Follow (Apr 20, 2010)

Video game piracy pisses me off more than DVD piracy.

These things cost a fortune and hundreds/thousands of hours to make. You can't just steal that because you don't want to spend a fraction of your paycheck.

Games that aren't available anymore/where you are, though, I'm fine with.


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## Foxstar (Apr 20, 2010)

Kitstaa (S.L.A.B) said:


> You're black.
> 
> 
> Don't give me that bro.



Never collected welfare, I think anyone that hires me because i'm black to fill a quota needs a bitch slap and the people talking about 'money because my great great great grandfather picked cotton for your great great great grandmother' need a kick in the balls.


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## Vaelarsa (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm a selfish little bitch with an extremely low budget.



Of course I do.


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## Verin Asper (Apr 20, 2010)

Harebelle said:


> Video game piracy pisses me off more than DVD piracy.
> 
> These things cost a fortune and hundreds/thousands of hours to make. You can't just steal that because you don't want to spend a fraction of your paycheck.
> 
> Games that aren't available anymore/where you are, though, I'm fine with.


I'm sorry about when tons of games are no longer being sold but not quite reach their abandonware status yet


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## Taralack (Apr 20, 2010)

Maxwell said:


> HTFU. Here we pay upwards of 100$ AU for a game. Thats >110$ USD, almost double the price. I would rejoice if games here were sold for 60$.



Seconding.

For me... it's yes and no. My PSP is hacked so I can play downloaded games, but I don't have an R4 for my DS. Me and my bf both play on Xbox Live, so we don't pirate games for the 360. I have a few pirated games for the pc, but most of my recent PC game purchases have been legit. (Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2)

As for tv shows... my bf usually likes buying boxsets, so I let him. I'm more into anime, and since I'm somewhat of a purist in terms of dubbing and such, I usually download. I hate english dubbed anime with a passion.


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## 8-bit (Apr 20, 2010)

Toraneko said:


> Seconding.
> 
> For me... it's yes and no. My PSP is hacked so I can play downloaded games, but I don't have an R4 for my DS. Me and my bf both play on Xbox Live, so we don't pirate games for the 360. I have a few pirated games for the pc, but most of my recent PC game purchases have been legit. (Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2)
> 
> As for tv shows... my bf usually likes buying boxsets, so I let him. I'm more into anime, and since I'm somewhat of a purist in terms of dubbing and such, I usually download. I hate english dubbed anime with a passion.



Fuck you, sailor moon was awesome fail.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Apr 21, 2010)

1: Yes, though a lot less than before
2: Mostly to try it out, or if the original has crappy DRM, or no longer for sale.


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## Lazydabear (Apr 21, 2010)

1) Yes

2)I do buy movies or games some movies and box sets of TV shows are harder to find sometimes or never sold I was surpise that someone had a copy Digital copy of Savage Dragon the Cartoon Series on AVI format on a P2P software I use. Some games are free to download some are expensive to get. I tend to go for the Free to play online MMORPG if the game is fun it would be worth the money to play. I found out that some games are cheaper to make from there core engins they use to make the games from donations from offering users bonus items to level faster.

I do buy console games because now its not easy to rip on a PS3 then it is on a Xbox 360 to pirate games if the game is worth the money I buy it.


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## Tommy (Apr 21, 2010)

Only if I don't have any way to get the game.
...I know, not a very good excuse.


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