# Could I get some critique?



## robinbirdie17 (Jan 19, 2018)

*THIS FORUM IS NOW CLOSED
I would like to thank everyone who responded. I now know what I need to do and I'll wait to open commissions until I have learned and honed my skill a bit more.*

I'm looking to open up commissions soon, but I would really like some critique on my art.

Here's a few recent images:
www.furaffinity.net: The Creator and The Clone - 2018 Remake by robinbirdie17
www.furaffinity.net: Christmas Stroll by robinbirdie17

Any and all constructive critique is always welcome.


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## AudreyXFace (Jan 19, 2018)

I think you have great colors, but maybe try using more references when sketching?

Keep up the good work!


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 19, 2018)

AudreyXFace said:


> I think you have great colors, but maybe try using more references when sketching?
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Thank you!

I try to use references as often as I can. Poses are hard for me, but I'm trying.


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## Inkblooded (Jan 20, 2018)

I suggest trying light sources and shading, and maybe experimenting with different colors and color palettes.

Light sources seem hard at first but actually its not that hard once you start in my experience. There should be plenty of tutorials on DeviantArt/google that show and explain it well.

For colors, what I mean is vary the colors based on the situation. So for example, if you're drawing a scene at a sunset, try using warmer/more orange and darker colors.
What youre doing right now is using the "basic colors" (as in the most literal colors of characters and objects if the lighting was 100% neutral) for everything. Thats not a bad thing, but if you can learn to vary it I think it will take you a lot further.

Palettes are a fun and easy way to experiment with color and learn. You just get a palette (there are loads of them online) and then try to draw using only those colors.

Sorry if that didn't make much sense, I am not the best at explaining it.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 20, 2018)

Inkblooded said:


> I suggest trying light sources and shading, and maybe experimenting with different colors and color palettes.
> 
> Light sources seem hard at first but actually its not that hard once you start in my experience. There should be plenty of tutorials on DeviantArt/google that show and explain it well.
> 
> ...


I think I see what you're getting at. I'll try experimenting a bit with the next few pieces. Thank you.


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## Ciderfine (Jan 26, 2018)

I don't think you even have remotely close talent to even pull of commissions or anything in form. This is like 2001 microsoft paint form, its very bad, bland like salt and has no form or personality, emotion, care or world focus. You need a lot more practice, a lot more finding yourself and interests and building off of working things then line work doodle animals.

The fandom is a serious waterhole, people want real raw personalized things not noodle lines, your in for a rough and violent awakening if you don't age your skills, mind and form all in yourself. Frankly I cant even tell what you aim or want to draw from these examples, like do you just want to do artwork? Stay in digital, maybe do paintings? These forms you linked don't show any variety, care or openness to try new things, they both feel so heavily like lead the same.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 26, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> I don't think you even have remotely close talent to even pull of commissions or anything in form. This is like 2001 microsoft paint form, its very bad, bland like salt and has no form or personality, emotion, care or world focus. You need a lot more practice, a lot more finding yourself and interests and building off of working things then line work doodle animals.
> 
> The fandom is a serious waterhole, people want real raw personalized things not noodle lines, your in for a rough and violent awakening if you don't age your skills, mind and form all in yourself. Frankly I cant even tell what you aim or want to draw from these examples, like do you just want to do artwork? Stay in digital, maybe do paintings? These forms you linked don't show any variety, care or openness to try new things, they both feel so heavily like lead the same.


Please be gentler. That is not constructive. It does not tell me what I need to work on in order to improve. Like I'm sorry that I wasn't serious about art until a couple years ago and had major creative blocks last year?


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## Dongding (Jan 26, 2018)

I agree with him. You probably need to improve a little bit before you start charging. Try sketches, work with general shapes/skeletons until you're more consistent. It might not be your style but I think in your case you need to either just improve in general at precisely what you're doing, or work from the ground up starting with general shapes, angles, and body positions you aren't used to.

You're working within your comfort zone and it isn't challenging you enough to improve.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 26, 2018)

Dongding said:


> I agree with him. You probably need to improve a little bit before you start charging. Try sketches, work with general shapes/skeletons until you're more consistent. It might not be your style but I think in your case you need to either just improve in general at precisely what you're doing, or work from the ground up starting with general shapes, angles, and body positions you aren't used to.
> 
> You're working within your comfort zone and it isn't challenging you enough to improve.


See, this is what I was looking for. Thank you.

The only problem is that I'm stuck. I can't ever find tutorials that are useful for me. Do you have any on hand?


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## Ciderfine (Jan 26, 2018)

robinbirdie17 said:


> Please be gentler. That is not constructive. It does not tell me what I need to work on in order to improve. Like I'm sorry that I wasn't serious about art until a couple years ago and had major creative blocks last year?



Thats a major ice age excuse on the wind, and no I refuse to water down honesty, my visual facts and your habroir to "soothe your soul." Art is a professional thing on here to be taken seriously once you say "I'm looking to open commissions soon". You need a mental vaccination way sooner if what I'm telling you professional wise bothers you....then art isn't something you should focus on.

No, constructive means when someone builds a bad idea like a house and expects it to be a mansion you need to tear people off their high horse and have them focus on the basics of woodwork to the hobby your soul dances to like spicy jazz. There are no feelings in this, only honesty exposing flaws.

now if you wish to get better your gonna need one major thing. To improve yourself not your skills. I keep pinging a very strong vibe on you that you have no idea what form of artwork goal your aiming for. I don't see you branching out or learning more about yourself. Real learning and skill basics some with age and maturity and working with things that don't work or seem difficult.

Now skillswise, your brain will adapt and break any molds when you step out and do new things. Annoying things, good things, favorite things and mountain climbing things. You need to taste all the wines that art exists as and do that for a few years as a work out. By then you can find what you prefer, aim for and want. The real reason your not growing is because you're letting one thing slow you down. That's a horrible limitation to have a tiny pebble block your path, "major creative blocks"

Did it ever occur to you that not everyone can be an artist? I spent a long time drawing, art in school, anatomy in med school, drawing cells, diseases, organs, concepts, fantasy worlds but I was not meant to be a traditional artist. Instead Im a 3d artist. If your stuck on something you have a lot more self learning and understanding of art to build on. You really need to branch out and do more then just dragon character doodles. You need to study the sap that the world leaves on everything and stop thinking I'm trying to attack you personally with my "not gentle" words. Art is about real things in different forms not comfort.


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## Dongding (Jan 26, 2018)

Naw I've just always been able to draw. I don't know what would work for you either. If I wasn't satisfied with where I was and someone suggested to me that I try that stuff, I probably wouldn't even take the advice. People learn differently and have different inherent talents as well.

I quit guitar. I found after 5 years of legitimate everyday practise, I wasn't improving as much as I liked. I understood a great deal about the theory, scales, chords, why they are, what they are, and how they relate to each other in a musical instrument sense. I wasn't bad, but the end result was that I was getting stressed out over something I should have been enjoying. I'm not musically inclined, and never will be no matter how much I want to. That is to say not without spending ludicrous amounts of effort and time when I could just be legitimately enjoying myself.

I'm not suggesting you quit what you're doing, but I believe natural ability can be more important than practise in a realistic sense. It's like giving someone a lump of clay to work with and a crumbly, white, dried out dog turd to another guy. One guy is going to have a much easier time making a sculpture...

I just suggest you try some things yourself. Really make a point out of finding a way to mentally keep everything together. There are an unbelievably huge amount of styles, new people creating them every day. The thing that stands out the most are inaccuracies. You can spend a buttload of time detailing everything on a piece to make it look perfect, but if you make a mistake, even just as much as screwing up inking one spot on one line, it's plain for all to see. I believe consistency is the most important link to having artistic integrity. Peanuts being a good example. It looks awful, but everything in it looks equally awful so there's nothing to nitpick.

Hope that helps.


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## Dongding (Jan 26, 2018)

Ciderfine said:


> Did it ever occur to you that not everyone can be an artist?


Post-burglar. Stole half my post anyways lol. At least you only stole half the sentiment as well, so that's good. :3


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## Ciderfine (Jan 26, 2018)

Dongding said:


> Post-burglar. Stole half my post anyways lol. At least you only stole half the sentiment as well, so that's good. :3



Hey, 50/50 sounds fair and even, Ill try not and mind read you like a hand puppet in the future!


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 26, 2018)

Dongding said:


> Naw I've just always been able to draw. I don't know what would work for you either. If I wasn't satisfied with where I was and someone suggested to me that I try that stuff, I probably wouldn't even take the advice. People learn differently and have different inherent talents as well.
> 
> I quit guitar. I found after 5 years of legitimate everyday practise, I wasn't improving as much as I liked. I understood a great deal about the theory, scales, chords, why they are, what they are, and how they relate to each other in a musical instrument sense. I wasn't bad, but the end result was that I was getting stressed out over something I should have been enjoying. I'm not musically inclined, and never will be no matter how much I want to. That is to say not without spending ludicrous amounts of effort and time when I could just be legitimately enjoying myself.
> 
> ...


It really does help. More than you think.

I feel satisfied with my current style. I like how toony it is. I know I need to work on a few things like shading, posing, and anatomy, which is why I'm asking for other's constructive critiques.

Really, I'm not asking for anyone to come out and bitch and moan about what they don't like about it. Considering the shit job I have and the stress I'm under right now, I can't really handle harsh words as well as I could normally. I work better with people who take the time to tell me what I'm doing right and what I need to work on.


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## Dongding (Jan 26, 2018)

I forgot to mention _why _you're doing it is important as well.

Everyone seeks validation. We wouldn't share these things with each other otherwise. We crave for someone else to acknowledge that what we've done isn't a complete waste of time. Things like jealousy and frustration are perfectly normal; not to insinuate anything. I find that even being happy where I am artistically, I can get a little jealous of other people's followings or my lack of ability to produce in the quantity that draws people to your work. You have to be able to either poop out great shit all the time, or squeeze out a long magnificent turd that you sort of want to take a picture of which inspire awe to everyone who gazes upon it making it worth the wait. Any other strategy will just get you mediocrity. I think mediocrity will have to do for myself. I'm aware of my capabilities and don't want to put forth the effort in order to improve them.

If you're just getting back into art, I just think I would focus on nailing down a style. Something simplistic with minimal details. Like I said in my post before, if everything is consistent, there's no reason to think any personal difference in tastes weren't intentional on your part. That way you can expand your skills comfortably, but don't get lazy having accomplished that one thing. Expand your style. This doesn't mean making it more realistic or proportional. It could simply mean honing in exactly how your style warps the visual representation of what you have imagined in your head. as long as it's consistent, there's nothing to pick apart. An art style is sort of a lens I guess that your you can use to translate what's in your head into a physical representation on paper. It might do weird shit, like a bubble lens which distorts the image in a peculiar way, and it might not be what others want to look at once it's been focused out onto the paper, but as long as it's what you intended without fallacy, then your style has integrity. If you're just crappin' shit onto paper half-assed or in odd ways unintentionally, most people won't want to look at any of your work.

It's pretty obvious generally what is intentional and clearly an oversight which was built upon lopsided instead of fixed right away. Sometimes you don't have the option to fix it. Don't think people don't notice mistakes and make arbitrary critical judgements on the spot though. Nothing is easier to crap on than another person's effort, especially if they've paid for it. I still think commission work might just end up stressing you out if you're fragile enough to ask people online to critique your work. And that wasn't a jab at you, it's just really obvious you care what others think, which implies a little insecurity and distress on your part. I just know that even professional artists deal with inconsiderate unappreciative clients on a regular basis. I could be reading into it way too much as well, but I'm rambling and was invested... That's pretty much everything I wanted to say.


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## fralea (Jan 26, 2018)

Dongding said:


> I still think commission work might just end up stressing you out if you're fragile enough to ask people online to critique your work. And that wasn't a jab at you, it's just really obvious you care what others think, which implies a little insecurity and distress on your part. .




Yo I take umbrage to this particular statement. Asking for critique from _anyone _shows a drive to improve. A lot of time we can be blind to our own mistakes because we are so used to them. Outside opinions can open our eyes to new possibilities, even if we don't outright agree with all the crit we get. Its healthy as an artist imo to critique yourself and seek out honest critique from others both positive and negative.

Its getting upset when someone gives you a _negative _crit that to me would say they might not be ready for commissions. I do think ciderfine could have said the same sentiment in a way that was less harsh, but shit clients can be harsher than even that. And you have to learn how to deal with that without losing professionalism. Even if you get upset, it can be okay as long as you don't show it in your public face.  But then again, if you hide from venues where you might run into these people (crits, commissions, etc) and never expose yourself to someone who doesn't love everything you do, you will never learn how to deal with that kinda thing. Not everyone starts out with that kind of attitude but it can be learned.

However I think OP had a pretty reasonable response to that negative crit overall (in their first response to it). They didn't break down and stuck up for themselves. The last sentence was unprofessional, granted, but this is a pretty casual setting. What they said to you about not handling harsh words though does point to possibly needing to be exposed to more negative critique to build up the skillset to deal with it.


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## Dongding (Jan 27, 2018)

I meant is as "clearly you're admitting there's something wrong in order to fix it" sort of way.

A confident person doesn't need another person's opinion/critiques. That could be ignorance compounded with being out of touch with the general consensus of what standards are, or it could be someone who generally makes correct decisions all of the time with favorable outcomes never developing a habit of doubting themselves in situations where they are responsible directly for success or failure in a situation. Either way, she's neither of those because she asked for help. That's all I meant by that.

I get where you're coming from, but even just using myself as an example, some people will never ask for help regardless of if they need it or not. I'm one of those people. I'd rather be homeless than take a handout from anybody. It's not a constructive quality, but it shows grit. I would never call _myself _fragile. That doesn't mean I'm not burying my insecurities deep inside of myself, not revealing them, or that they don't exist. Some people just are a little softer and more willing to accept help like you mentioned as a means to an end less effectively reached on their own. (AKA "a drive to improve") It's good you brought up being blind to your own mistakes as well as critiquing can reveal things you might use as a crutch that you haven't noticed, never really growing as an artist in that particular aspect. So I definitely agree with that.

Essentially I can only read what she types, and asking for help definitely reveals a touch of insecurity (not feeling adequate with her work, preferring another's assistance over ineffectively dealing with it by herself) _and _distress. (The distress in this situation obviously her simply having this problem and literally not knowing what it is she can work on and how to do so.) I don't disagree with anything you've said, but I still stand by what I've said having had a chance to elaborate.


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## fralea (Jan 27, 2018)

Dongding said:


> A confident person doesn't need another person's opinion/critiques.



Disagree. A confident person can take critique and analyze what's helpful to them and what isn't without it swaying them 100% everytime. Sometimes you know there is an issue but not 100% what that may be or how to fix it. ALL of the time you (should) know that your art is not perfect and can always improve more.

I'm having trouble parsing the rest of that paragraph. Not sure if I just need some sleep.



> I get where you're coming from, but even just using myself as an example, some people will never ask for help regardless of if they need it or not.


Asking for critique is not the same as asking for a handout. If it really bothers you you can do it as a barter or pay people to critique you.



> asking for help definitely reveals a touch of insecurity


I'm sorry I just can't agree with this attitude. That's the type of thinking that ends up with people who are suffering from illness and refuse to go to the doctor. Sorry for being a bit dramatic. We as humans aren't designed to live totally alone. Sometimes you just need support.



> preferring another's assistance over ineffectively dealing with it by herself


Maybe I'm misinterpreting this, but why would you deal with something by yourself INEFFECTIVELY when you can ask for help and subsequently have the tools to deal with it EFFECTIVELY?

I really don't see any major signs of distress from robinbirdie either. Maybe a small amount, but nothing that seems a huge overreaction or anything.



... Anyway, I think we are getting off topic, I'm not sure this is really helping robin anymore. If you want to hash it out more maybe we can talk in PMs?


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## Dongding (Jan 27, 2018)

Naw you win I guess. Good job? I don't feel like explaining each sentence to you.

Edit: I could if you'd like. You literally misinterpreted every single one of them oddly enough...


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## fralea (Jan 27, 2018)

Dongding said:


> Naw you win I guess. Good job? I don't feel like explaining each sentence to you.
> 
> Edit: I could if you'd like. You literally misinterpreted every single one of them oddly enough...



well sorry about that then


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## MissNook (Jan 27, 2018)

To Robin: can I ask what are your goals for your art? And why do you want to open commissions? (if that's not too personal of course)


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 27, 2018)

MissNook said:


> To Robin: can I ask what are your goals for your art? And why do you want to open commissions? (if that's not too personal of course)


Well I've always had a passion for the arts and I want to share that with the world. My marketing classes in college showed me that art is what I want to do with my life. I have my own business planned out and I want to open commissions to see how it'll work out for me. And digital art isn't the only thing I want to do. I want to make Fursuit, realistic sketches, ornaments for the Christmas holidays, and maybe acrylic canvas paintings if I can get better at them.

I do want to improve, which is why I asked for outside opinions. And while I can be fragile and insecure, my anxiety and the job I have now, with a manager who makes fun of me and bullies me into submission, certainly don't help with those who are harsher towards me.

(Oh, and could you please call me Angel? That's my fursona's name and the alias I prefer to use online.)


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## MissNook (Jan 27, 2018)

Ok then, Angel, thanks for answering I understand better 

I think you need to take time to study and simply train but yeah it can be pretty difficult to know where to start. 
But I can't really help since I'm not sure of your main difficulties. Can you show us a pencil drawing, a color pencils (or marker) colored drawing and a realistic drawing of a still life?
It's just to have a bigger range of pictures


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## Vince_Werewolf (Jan 27, 2018)

Looks nice!


You might want the color wheel beside you as reference to see what colors go together well. From the first link, it's nice, but perhaps some color combinations can make the character stand out more.
Shading and lighting. A circular one is a nice starter for actual character shadow, but you would want to work more on a more defined shading. Experiment around lighting positions. Inspiration from natural lighting from life helps. Add shading to characters and highlight some areas. Value and Chrome are factors of good art. _Of course, when implemented correctly. _
*ANATOMY!* Clear as day at the second link. Tip: use a crazy ton of references. Try out different positions for the character References in general helps (Just be careful not to "copy")
Gesture lines. Something nice to work on them too. Curve a little bit, cuz everything near straight or just straight in art types like this I see will cause the art to be stoic.
For now, focus on character than background.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 27, 2018)

Vince_Werewolf said:


> Looks nice!
> 
> 
> You might want the color wheel beside you as reference to see what colors go together well. From the first link, it's nice, but perhaps some color combinations can make the character stand out more.
> ...


Wow... Thank you so much! This is some of the most helpful critique I've gotten so far. I'll invest in some books that can help me study and learn more about art.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 27, 2018)

MissNook said:


> Ok then, Angel, thanks for answering I understand better
> 
> I think you need to take time to study and simply train but yeah it can be pretty difficult to know where to start.
> But I can't really help since I'm not sure of your main difficulties. Can you show us a pencil drawing, a color pencils (or marker) colored drawing and a realistic drawing of a still life?
> It's just to have a bigger range of pictures


Funny you mention a larger range of pictures. I'm actually working on a few more pieces that I'd like to use as examples as we speak.

But I see what you mean. I'll see if I can get another realistic sketch done.


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## fralea (Jan 27, 2018)

Yeah if you post a sketch from reference, probably of an animal like a wolf since ferals seem to be your target audience but a still life would be good too, it would help see where you are artistically and what kind of advice to give. You are clearly working in a stylized manner but even then you need to understand construction/anatomy so that you can apply your stylization effectively.

P.S. sorry to hear about your boss, that sounds bad


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## Dongding (Jan 27, 2018)

Yeah. I find managers to be very small people. They cling to what little authority they have over a person ruthlessly. I've never seen otherwise.

How a person can live with abusing such a small amount of power is very telling of their actual practical worth as a human being.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 28, 2018)

Dongding said:


> Yeah. I find managers to be very small people. They cling to what little authority they have over a person ruthlessly. I've never seen otherwise.
> 
> How a person can live with abusing such a small amount of power is very telling of their actual practical worth as a human being.


Yeah...

Once I get acclimated at my new job, I'm going to see if I can get my old job back. I may not have always liked it, but even the manager that people weren't too fond of still cared about her employees. She helped to calm me down when my anxiety was acting up. I generally liked most of my co-workers. The guests I dealt with weren't necessarily the best, but I know better how to deal with difficult customers now. And I actually kind of liked the job. Especially when I got to help out with kids activities on the holidays.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 28, 2018)

fralea said:


> Yeah if you post a sketch from reference, probably of an animal like a wolf since ferals seem to be your target audience but a still life would be good too, it would help see where you are artistically and what kind of advice to give. You are clearly working in a stylized manner but even then you need to understand construction/anatomy so that you can apply your stylization effectively.
> 
> P.S. sorry to hear about your boss, that sounds bad


While I am working on some more digital examples, I got inspired yesterday to make another realistic sketch. I just need to find the right picture.


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## Sindenbock (Jan 29, 2018)

I know you ask for "gentle critique", so I'll say it gently.

Nobody will want to buy this. That's as gentle as I can say it. The thing is if you want to be an artist that opens commissions here are some questions you should ask yourself:
How much do I want to charge?
How much stress/time-pressure can I handle?
Can I handle critique?
Can I handle people not being happy with what they received and possibly going back and fixing things over and over again?
Am I able to say no?
What do I wanna draw? Do I have any specific things I don't feel comfortable drawing?
Am I confident in my skills?
Do I have any outstanding drawing style?
Do I want to make this a profession or keep it as a second-job/hobby?

And especially: If i were a commissioner, would I want to buy the shit I draw?

If you feel comfortable with your drawing skills right now, good for you but I am sure if you put more time and energy into it you can make these things much much prettier. If it helps, look at how other artist draw animals. look at how disney draws animals, or Don Bluth, or whatever animation company out there. Look at REAL LIFE REFERENCES I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.


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## robinbirdie17 (Jan 29, 2018)

Sindenbock said:


> I know you ask for "gentle critique", so I'll say it gently.
> 
> Nobody will want to buy this. That's as gentle as I can say it. The thing is if you want to be an artist that opens commissions here are some questions you should ask yourself:
> How much do I want to charge?
> ...


 I never thought to look at animation styles for some anatomy. Thank you for pointing that out.


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