# RANT: Stop oversexualizing your fursonas; treat them like characters.



## dragonofdestiny (Jun 17, 2020)

*This one has been sitting in my mind for some time now, and after some consideration I decided to share my thoughts. It'll go on for a second, but don't be too concerned.*



I have to give the spotlight to the problem of pornography and its prevalence within the furry community. Known to everyone, there's no need to discuss how this trend makes our (very talented) subculture look disgusting and unappealing to normal people, along with the effect it has on younger viewers - all of this has been covered many times already.

This problem is, indeed, something that would be very difficult to fix, requiring a change of heart of an entire unison of furries to have any positive impact. What I will touch upon, however, can do just about anyone-


-Anyone who one day sat down and decided to take it upon themselves to create a character to call their own: a piece of their own mind, their interests, loves and hates; an artistic embodiment of themselves. Whether it was for a story, a piece of art, to honour someone, as respect of the person they will never be or simply out of boredom - the sheer possibilities of creating someone new, piece-by-piece, are endless. 

Think of the last book, or any piece of poetry, that you had invested yourself in. Think of the character, that one gem unique to you, the only character out of the abundance of faces that made you *feel*. Maybe it made you laugh? Cry? Sit down and ponder about yourself, the world you live in? A character you would love to meet in person, and spend many cheerful moments with? *That *is this power.

...and you would be disappointed to notice just how much of it goes to waste trying to make characters *look. *Many celebrity-lookalikes of furry characters are famous and well-known thanks to their visual appearance and abundant sexual art. And what do you gain from it? Sure, the visual and sexual excitement will make you feel again, but for how long? Masturbation, and this kind of entertainment, has never known to be fulfilling, has it? You know its feeling of emptiness; *it does not help anything.*


Instead, imagine converting all the hours of making your character "hot" into making them deep. I don't like this term either, but you know what I mean: giving them a backstory, in-depth emotions and their behaviour, maybe other characters related to them? Hell, create them an entire world of their own - who can stop you?

Simply sit down and think of the lack of respect for such creations, the love they never get. Why, you don't even have to treat them as figments of your imagination - how about seeing them as they would be* a human*? Every human, even the greyest, most generic face has something to tell, some piece of their past to share, their childhood, what made them *them*. Why should characters be looked down upon as just another shallow face? It does not help anything.


Instead, an inspiring character can *change someone's life. *Back then, the realisation of this fact made me shiver. Is it far-fetched? Maybe. Is it impossible? Never. It is only so when you give up on it or overlook it completely.

But if you're humble, or just not that sure of yourself, you don't instantly have to change someone's entire existence. Maybe simply make them happy? Give them something interesting, deep, entertaining to read; a character to look into further and further, their own rabbit-hole for the ones most interested in your creations. Touching the very own brain, heart, *feelings* of a person is undoubtedly more engaging than making someone feel aroused.


Even when ignoring others, building a character with your own heart is far from hurtful. It would let you see again, see value in such creations, create a bond with a piece of yourself. This deep, developing feeling is, actually, the exact opposite of the brief, sexual satisfaction everyone knows, but hates.

Now, don't call me some old, purism supremacist. I'm all behind keeping the sexual part in our community; as in others, it's an entire part of its own, deleting it would be counteractive. However, toning it down and letting productive actions take its place would help the community as it is.



Everyone should do their best to develop as people, as an unison of a subculture that has deep roots and equally massive potential.

I would just like to see the true face of this community that, at this pace, we are never going to see.


_Thanks._


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## Foxy Emy (Jun 17, 2020)

Wow.... That was one heck of a wall of text there. I am afraid this part of your rant got a little lost in everything else so I just want to point it out for all the skimmers:



dragonofdestiny said:


> Now, don't call me some old, purism supremacist. I'm all behind keeping the sexual part in our community; as in others, it's an entire part of its own, deleting it would be counteractive. However, toning it down and letting productive actions take its place would help the community as it is.



By, the by, before ranting about sexualization on FAF, try to get to know the members and their characters first. You might be surprised by how well developed some of the characters on this forum are...


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## LeFay (Jun 17, 2020)

I just say it's you character. Do what you want with it but don't get mad when outsiders call us fetishists and degenerates. You don't get to have it both ways, but it's also no ones job to put out a public image of the fandom.
The fandoms not a clubhouse, it's a group created by an assortment of cliches of people that come to the fandom for their own reasons and get out of it what they want. If you don't like seeing that content then use filters.

You make some alright points but at the end of the day it's up to the individual how they want their character to reflect to themselves and others and if thats NSFW then I mean it's their life bro.


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## Bluefiremark II (Jun 17, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> Wow.... That was one heck of a wall of text there. I am afraid this part of your rant got a little lost in everything else so I just want to point it out for all the skimmers:
> 
> 
> 
> By, the by, before ranting about sexualization on FAF, try to get to know the members and their characters first. You might be surprised by how well developed some of the characters on this forum are...


Well developed- like mine!


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## Skittles (Jun 17, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> Wow.... That was one heck of a wall of text there. I am afraid this part of your rant got a little lost in everything else so I just want to point it out for all the skimmers:
> 
> 
> 
> By, the by, before ranting about sexualization on FAF, try to get to know the members and their characters first. You might be surprised by how well developed some of the characters on this forum are...


Quite! Some of us are wholesome beings! I just want to be fløøfy and.. Maybe conquer the world. But it's for a good cause!


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## TyraWadman (Jun 17, 2020)

While I do agree with the sentiment (I would love to see more story-related pics than not), it will be impossible.
Especially when you factor in those who are learning impaired or that humans continue to advertise with the ideology of 'sex sells' in general.

Edit: Yikes. Apparently people forgot this was a vent thread. Not a personal attack. I never once said people with mental disabilities don't deserve porn or anything silly like that, but rather, good luck arguing your case with them. Hence why I said it would be impossible to sway an entire community.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 17, 2020)

> *Stop oversexualizing your fursonas; treat them like characters.*



Or else what? How about you stop generalizing and putting everyone under the same label. What makes you think that everyone who has nsfw art of their characters is a shallow porn-addicted freak who's only doing this to gain 5 seconds of bliss? How often do you interact with people who have predominately NSFW art of their sonas? 

You are so convinced that a character who is depicted in sexual themes cannot have a meaningful backstory and development. You are wrong.


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## Borophagus Metropolis (Jun 17, 2020)

B'rof's backstory is so NSFW that I can't even write it.


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## Frank Gulotta (Jun 17, 2020)

Don't tell me what to do



Spoiler



I couldn't be a hundredth as depraved as Egyptian or Greek mythology if I tried​


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## KD142000 (Jun 17, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> *This one has been sitting in my mind for some time now, and after some consideration I decided to share my thoughts. It'll go on for a second, but don't be too concerned.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because it's a long wall of text, I cut it down.

Let me start by saying that having NSFW art doesn't mean you oversexualise your character. If you want to get art of your character in a sexual manner, then go right ahead. I couldn't care less. Only if it's cub or bestiality is it unacceptable in my view. Everything else...I don't care.

Your point, I think, is that you want the whole community to stop getting NSFW art to show 'we're not disgusting'. Well...tough shit. I know very well that it's not just the sexual side of the fandom that turns people off us. So, even if we did stop posting NSFW art, I don't think it'd make a blind bit of difference.

The rules state that we have to mark adult content as adult in order to stop minors from seeing it. And, by and large, most people do that. I think this is fair for both minors and adult members.

My character, even if I have NSFW art of him, is still a character. I maintain that it's up to you what your character is and what they do. If someone wants to make a character just for porn, it's their own choice and they'll deal with whatever comes their way.

Also, I've seen some people with predominantly NSFW art have characters that are 'deep' and 'developed'. No offence, but people who want to masturbate over someone's character will do it anyway, regardless of whether there's porn of them or not.


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## Skittles (Jun 17, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Because it's a long wall of text, I cut it down.
> 
> Let me start by saying that having NSFW art doesn't mean you oversexualise your character. If you want to get art of your character in a sexual manner, then go right ahead. I couldn't care less. Only if it's cub or bestiality is it unacceptable in my view. Everything else...I don't care.
> 
> ...


I know of one who has an amazingly intricate story but is borderline sexual. Really nice person I have found from a brief convo.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 17, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Also, I've seen some people with predominantly NSFW art have characters that are 'deep' and 'developed'. No offence, but people who want to masturbate over someone's character will do it anyway, regardless of whether there's porn of them or not.



Not only that, but do some people even really care for the "deep and meaningful" stuff about characters in the first place? Sometimes a character who can be summed up in one or two paragraphs is far more interesting than a character who has a 10 page backstory.


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## KD142000 (Jun 17, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> Not only that, but do some people even really care for the "deep and meaningful" stuff about characters in the first place? Sometimes a character who can be summed up in one or two paragraphs is far more interesting than a character who has a 10 page backstory.


Yeah, it hinges on personal preference, really. I can admire 'shallow' and 'deep' characters, for lack of better words. And sometimes their owners are really lovely to interact with.

Well said.



Skittles said:


> I know of one who has an amazingly intricate story but is borderline sexual. Really nice person I have found from a brief convo.


I am often impressed by people's character and world-building in this fandom. And even if it's not very intricate, it can still be appreciated just the same.


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## quoting_mungo (Jun 17, 2020)

You have written your entire piece with a mind towards what you think the relationship between a person and their fursona should be. Not everyone sees the concept of a fursona the same way, and not everyone relates to their own fursona in the same way.

My fursona will _never_ be a “well-developed character,” because that’s not the function she serves for me. She is not a character in the storytelling sense at all. Neither is my male sona. They’re just furry window dressing on me-the-person. To me the idea of giving my fursona a backstory is creepy as fuck - I am not Baron fucking Münchhausen, and I’m not about to make up tall tales about my furry self-representation’s childhood any more than I would about myself when speaking with other people in a non-furry context.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with giving your fursona a life and story of their own. There’s also nothing wrong with leaving it at “this is how I represent myself in furry art.” Or anything in between.

I do have what I refer to as “art characters,” which are relatively flat characters that I created for the purpose of sticking them in pictures. They have varying degrees of personality and history, but not very much, because that’s not the purpose they’re intended to serve. They literally exist to spare me the trouble of thinking up one-off characters for random art.

The foremost thing a character needs to do is serve its purpose. If its purpose is to be the subject matter of sketches/studies/self-indulgent art, it doesn’t _need_ to be a very deep character. You have the _option_ of developing them deeply if you wish, but it’s not strictly necessary. If its purpose is to be a major or significant part of the supporting cast in a narrative, it needs more development.


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## Skittles (Jun 17, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> You have written your entire piece with a mind towards what you think the relationship between a person and their fursona should be. Not everyone sees the concept of a fursona the same way, and not everyone relates to their own fursona in the same way.
> 
> My fursona will _never_ be a “well-developed character,” because that’s not the function she serves for me. She is not a character in the storytelling sense at all. Neither is my male sona. They’re just furry window dressing on me-the-person. To me the idea of giving my fursona a backstory is creepy as fuck - I am not Baron fucking Münchhausen, and I’m not about to make up tall tales about my furry self-representation’s childhood any more than I would about myself when speaking with other people in a non-furry context.
> 
> ...


Yay! I am not the only one! I do enjoy backstories for people's sonas but I just.. Yeah Not for my own personal representation Sona. It does not make sense to me.


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## Punji (Jun 17, 2020)

Why can't an intricate well-designed character with a Tragic Backstory*™* also just so happen to be super sexy? 

I mean if we're going to create characters there's no reason to make them visually appalling most of the time.


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## Sir Thaikard (Jun 17, 2020)

It's not my fault that almost all the characters I write are sex gods and goddesses. 

If that's what people want, that's what they get.


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## Skittles (Jun 17, 2020)

Sir Thaikard said:


> It's not my fault that almost all the characters I write are sex gods and goddesses.
> 
> If that's what people want, that's what they get.


I am an Adonis in squirrel form!!! -Poses-


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 17, 2020)

Another thing I forgot to point out about this in regards to writing "deep" characters that happen to be your personal avatar is that in many writing circles, this would be essentially creating a Mary Sue/Marty Sue. No writer of any kind worth their salt would ever want to actually write one of those. 

In my case, having a powerful mystical creature who is used for my personal avatar to do things with some of my other characters, be used in RPs where anything can happen, and have sexy art of is all fine and dandy because he has no elaborate backstory or set place he exists in. However, if I were to try to use him in an actual story, it would be next to impossible because he's such an overpowered and overwhelming character that would render him a Sue in just about any setting. 

Which really, IMO, a setting's often far more important at determining what the characters should be more than anything else.


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (Jun 17, 2020)

Well I know that it can be a problem but I understand and thats why I like the safe side more than the nsfw side but dont censor it too much.


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## Sir Thaikard (Jun 17, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> Another thing I forgot to point out about this in regards to writing "deep" characters that happen to be your personal avatar is that in many writing circles, this would be essentially creating a Mary Sue/Marty Sue. No writer of any kind worth their salt would ever want to actually write one of those.
> 
> In my case, having a powerful mystical creature who is used for my personal avatar to do things with some of my other characters, be used in RPs where anything can happen, and have sexy art of is all fine and dandy because he has no elaborate backstory or set place he exists in. However, if I were to try to use him in an actual story, it would be next to impossible because he's such an overpowered and overwhelming character that would render him a Sue in just about any setting.
> 
> Which really, IMO, a setting's often far more important at determining what the characters should be more than anything else.



Hey man, if you pay me enough I'll write a fanfiction about how Furry Dumbledore seduces Hillary Clinton only to be foiled when a FurAffinity admin self-inserts themselves in to woo both of them.

I have no shame and I am not about to judge the requests of my clients.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jun 17, 2020)

I'm lonely and pent up. Of COURSE my fursona is going to be sexualized (not that it helps anything).


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

I understand where you're coming from to a degree, but I think associating NSFW art with a lack of character depth is the bad way to go. While I agree that the amount of oversexualization is definitely one of the largest I've seen in any fandom, we are neither the first nor the last to do this. Groups such as cosplayers/otaku do it as well, it's just more accepted (read: overlooked) by the media than Furries/Fursuiters - which is a hot topic to spark a "laughable" or "negative" commentary. In the end, it's not anyone's job to stop doing what they enjoy, and if what they enjoy is NSFW art it's their right to involve themselves. My character has been one in the making for years, and I'm not even close to getting basic world design off the ground, yet I have dabbled in NSFW once or twice and NSFW biological information is out there for people to know. Both because I enjoy being thorough, and because I see nothing wrong with having a "hot" character also have a sense of depth to them - or a deep and meaningful character having a six pack. In the end, people will hone in on what they care about, and if all they want is an imaginary sex image to get out their kinks and sinful wishes well...that's part of the escapism that comes with the Furry community. Whether you embrace it or not, that's something you'll have to accept as fact.

A suggestion I'd make is to create an active and enthusiastic group of SFW artists with characters who you and others in the group would deem as "deep" and "meaningful" and just have fun creating stories and art together. It might come across elitist to those who enjoy NSFW art, but hey, as said prior - do what you want.

It's your choice.


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## Marius Merganser (Jun 17, 2020)

As a duck, I hope you're not suggesting I start wearing pants.


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## lemonadevik (Jun 17, 2020)

I think a main thing forgotten in this post is that for a lot of furries their fursona is THEM. A fursona isn't just a character they've written into a story but is actually them just in a different body. It's also very well known that a good handful of furries have issues with self-confidence and anxiety, so seeing a character representative of them in something NSFW could be a bit of a confidence booster. I mean, seeing what is practically you looking all sexy and stuff could bring the person extra self-confidence; like living vicariously through an anthro fox. 

If seeing NSFW stuff makes you uncomfy then just don't look at it. The public and the normies will think whatever they want about us, no matter if we were all squeaky clean or not. Honestly, a big part of the fandom for me is not being like the public and just being myself.


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

lemonadevik said:


> A fursona isn't just a character they've written into a story but is actually them just in a different body.



I always found this concept extremely creepy, but that may be the 11+ year forum roleplayer in me talking. As with roleplay it was almost always seen as a negative when portraying yourself through a character due to how much drama and escapism (gee, whaddya know?) could result from it. It also made everything that happened with your character that much more sensitively taken, which in a lot of ways could be psychologically damaging for the individuals that didn't know how to separate themselves from their characters properly. While I'm not saying this mindset can't be done healthily - I am saying that it can be really difficult to stay healthy in the long run without any historical, psychological, or personality differences between you and the creation. The power of the mind is a strange, strange thing.



lemonadevik said:


> It's also very well known that a good handful of furries have issues with self-confidence and anxiety, so seeing a character representative of them in something NSFW could be a bit of a confidence booster.



This makes NSFW artists and NSFW commissioners everywhere look like pathetic anxiety ridden hermits, and I can only assume that the people actually doing this are few and far between compared to the ones who are doing it for the simple sexual fun of it. Mostly because a lot of Furries I meet tend to be functioning adults who are more than capable of flirting, chilling, and hanging out with fellow human beings. This misconception that "a lot of furries can't function so they use art to substitute" is honestly disgusting to me, and a little offensive to the community as a whole when you think about it. Then again, maybe I'm just being sensitive. 



lemonadevik said:


> If seeing NSFW stuff makes you uncomfy then just don't look at it. The public and the normies will think whatever they want about us, no matter if we were all squeaky clean or not. Honestly, a big part of the fandom for me is not being like the public and just being myself.



Feels like you're missing the point that the OP is trying to make, but if his long rant didn't explain it to you - I'm not sure if I could either.


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> Another thing I forgot to point out about this in regards to writing "deep" characters that happen to be your personal avatar is that in many writing circles, this would be essentially creating a Mary Sue/Marty Sue.



Actually a Mary Sue is the opposite of a deep and well defined character.
That's why they got the nickname, "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" respectively.
Because of how generic and bland the names sound.

You can have a character in a story and have them be exceptionally powerful while still having a sense of depth- it's why so many good characters in Marvel and DC work. They don't always hit the mark, but the ones that do REALLY do it well. 

Also, a Fursona isn't always a person's reflection. Faline is most certainly not a reflection of me.  I do have a few art pieces that can get more personal, but it isn't ever a case of, "Yes this is ME." It's always Faline. Just different layers of her.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 17, 2020)

Raever said:


> Actually a Mary Sue is the opposite of a deep and well defined character.
> That's why they got the nickname, "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" respectively.
> Because of how generic and bland the names sound.



I should probably point out that what I mean by "deep" in this case is that it's often used for over-the-top tragic backstories that use every cliche in the book. 

Of course, "Mary Sue" isn't exactly easy to pin down from person to person; not even the almighty TVTropes can make it work for us: Mary Sue - TV Tropes


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## quoting_mungo (Jun 17, 2020)

Raever said:


> I always found this concept extremely creepy, but that may be the 11+ year forum roleplayer in me talking. As with roleplay it was almost always seen as a negative when portraying yourself through a character due to how much drama and escapism (gee, whaddya know?) could result from it. It also made everything that happened with your character that much more sensitively taken, which in a lot of ways could be psychologically damaging for the individuals that didn't know how to separate themselves from their characters properly. While I'm not saying this mindset can't be done healthily - I am saying that it can be really difficult to stay healthy in the long run without any historical, psychological, or personality differences between you and the creation. The power of the mind is a strange, strange thing.


I can’t speak for anyone else, but personally I don’t roleplay using my fursona (with the possible rare exception of exchanging messages with husband or boyfriend), so that’s not a factor to me. Because, yeah, my fursona is me-as-a-furry, rather than a distinct being. If I’m going to roleplay I’ll use characters created for the purpose, which never were self-representative in the first place.

I totally agree that separation between fiction and reality is super important, I just don’t believe that people’s ability to do so necessarily something that can be accurately predicted based on their relationship with their character alone. Having seen people who use their fursonas as direct self-representations with very little independent characterization, who display a healthy understanding of IC/OOC separation, on one hand, and people with characters that very much are independent characters, who can’t handle other characters’ reactions to their own character’s actions, on the other.


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## Zerzehn (Jun 17, 2020)

How dare people focus on their character's aesthetics in visual mediums.

EDIT: Directed at OP.


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

Zerzehn said:


> How dare people focus on their character's aesthetics in visual mediums.



Your signature is quite accurate.


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## Valryth (Jun 17, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> *This one has been sitting in my mind for some time now, and after some consideration I decided to share my thoughts. It'll go on for a second, but don't be too concerned.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would like to start by saying that I loved reading this post. Great ideas, lovely language, and a breath of fresh air regarding community-discussed topics.

As there isn't really much I can do other than give my own input, I would like to say that as a part of the furry fandom, I'm definitely nowhere as deep as you would expect. I see a lot of people create masterful characters with amazing backstories that are great for roleplaying and just general branching out as an "individual" be it through whatever creative medium they prefer. In my case, I like to see my fursona as a bridge from me (the person behind the screen) to the community (all of you behind your screens) and it doesn't really get any deeper than that. 

That said, I think that there's a different type of value that can be found from it. I strictly refrain from involving my character in any sort of "hardcore/fetishy/etc" content simply because *I would like to treat him in the same way I treat myself.*

Seeing all the furries with incredible little details for their fursonas, no matter if they're projections of themselves or not, has made me consider building some sort of "backstory" for my own fursona even though he is supposed to be me but with a fluffy image! In my case, I've been considering using Valryth as an outlet for certain passions/interests that I don't explore as much in real life due to having to choose between the things I invest in! There are a lot of things that I do with my life, but I wouldn't really want to have him be a carbon copy of me either! That was how I discovered that maybe I could have him branch out into his own character, even if his essence is still supposed to be me.

(That last paragraph is essentially a rant about why I may be considering this that OP has mentioned.)

About the sexualization, I... I don't really know? While I think that having these ideals is great, and this is _definitely _something I condone and would love seeing, I don't think that it's realistic at all? This ties in with something else that you have said, which was 

_"I would just like to see the true face of this community that, at this pace, we are never going to see."_

The problem with such a statement is that your intent is in fact genuine and understandable, but we cannot deny that what we currently see *is *the true face of the community. There is no way around it. The people who joined because they like anthro characters, the people who joined because they like uncommon fetishes, the people who joined because they love roleplaying, they love the art, they love the porn, they love parts of the community, the ideologies... *This is all the true face of the community.
*
Some people are in fact the way you mentioned. But some aren't and they never will be. Actually, I would go as far as to say that *most* aren't and they won't ever change. 

And that is okay! 

I share your mindset and I would love to see that positive change in the fandom, but I think that this is something we won't be seeing anytime soon. The fandom is going through some sort of snowball effect, where it's gaining so much notoriety as a haven for people who want a different from of sexual expression that it will inevitably grow to become that way, because those who seek such a thing hear all this talk about our community and join for those reasons! It's really inevitable, and it's a weird sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. Just how stuff works! 

I think that perserverance is the most important thing. Keep creating your characters. Keep showing people that you can make a proper backstory for your fursona. Show people who aren't in the fandom for the same reasons as you what *your* reasons are, and who knows, maybe they'll discover that there is in fact this side to the fandom and may be attracted to it too!

(I am extremely sleepy and I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, but I really loved the thread and writing this was a nice mental exercise. Thank you.)


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## Elliot Manowar (Jun 17, 2020)

Lol make me


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## Deleted member 134556 (Jun 17, 2020)

My sona my choice


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

Valryth said:


> I would like to start by saying that I loved reading this post. Great ideas, lovely language, and a breath of fresh air regarding community-discussed topics.
> 
> As there isn't really much I can do other than give my own input, I would like to say that as a part of the furry fandom, I'm definitely nowhere as deep as you would expect. I see a lot of people create masterful characters with amazing backstories that are great for roleplaying and just general branching out as an "individual" be it through whatever creative medium they prefer. In my case, I like to see my fursona as a bridge from me (the person behind the screen) to the community (all of you behind your screens) and it doesn't really get any deeper than that.
> 
> ...



Nicely said!



[Nexus] said:


> My sona my choice



*chokes on soda* Oh my god, I didn't know I needed this.


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## Valryth (Jun 17, 2020)

Raever said:


> I always found this concept extremely creepy, but that may be the 11+ year forum roleplayer in me talking. As with roleplay it was almost always seen as a negative when portraying yourself through a character due to how much drama and escapism (gee, whaddya know?) could result from it. It also made everything that happened with your character that much more sensitively taken, which in a lot of ways could be psychologically damaging for the individuals that didn't know how to separate themselves from their characters properly. While I'm not saying this mindset can't be done healthily - I am saying that it can be really difficult to stay healthy in the long run without any historical, psychological, or personality differences between you and the creation. The power of the mind is a strange, strange thing.



I could write a lot about this, but I definitely have the habit of taking too long to say something very simple, so I'll try to do my best at explaining the point of view of someone who stands on the opposite side of that spectrum!

To me, the furry community has a lot of things which I appreciate and would like to get in touch with! (Roleplay is certainly not one of them, by the way.)

Furries have fursonas, that's pretty much how they interact! I love the art too, and I adore the idea of having my own fursona that I can use as a representation of me as part of the furry community, so I guess it was inevitable that I would want to do the same!

What I enjoy the most about furries is their creativity. The mindset you can find in some of them. Some people stand out by being incredibly interesting individuals, and this is something that I would love to get in touch with! I think that while roleplay is entertaining, it wouldn't really sate my desire of meeting others which is truly what brings me here in the first place!

Ironically... I would say that one personal interpretation of a fursona is _taking off your mask._

You hide behind the face of a cartoonish animal, yet you are able to be your truest self under this alias. Maybe you're even comfortable with showing how you look like as a human, who knows, but that doesn't really matter as much. _You are able to be who you are. _

That's my approach to this, and I'm not really sure if this is a common outlook on the whole fursona thing, but if it is, then I'm sure it makes sense to some people that they wouldn't really want to attach a completely different soul to this "mask" when they're only wearing it to try and let their true colours shine out as bright as possible!

///once again, I'm under the effect of an outrageous amount of sleepiness and I may wake up to this tomorrow and see how none of it actually made any sense, but I really hope that this managed to clarify why some people like to express themselves through their fursonas this way? I really want to thank you for posting the message I quoted though, it actually made me consider and reconsider the reasons as to why I participate in this community in the first place, and introspection is always an awesome thing!


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

Valryth said:


> ///once again, I'm under the effect of an outrageous amount of sleepiness and I may wake up to this tomorrow and see how none of it actually made any sense, but I really hope that this managed to clarify why some people like to express themselves through their fursonas this way? I really want to thank you for posting the message I quoted though, it actually made me consider and reconsider the reasons as to why I participate in this community in the first place, and introspection is always an awesome thing!



You made sense. I think part of the beauty is that everyone will always have their own way of looking at things in regards to Sona's. While there are some obvious limits, like having a grasp of reality, overall how one define's a Sona and how they use it will always be unique to the individual - and that's pretty awesome.


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## Toasty9399 (Jun 17, 2020)

You can't really convince people to stop making porn of their characters. There's a reason why this fandom has a horrible and degenerate reputation.


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## DingRawD (Jun 17, 2020)

Do what you want with your sona, as long as it's legal. Whole point of your fursona is to be creative and experimental.
My sona has been sexualised/fetishized loads of times by my girlfriend and drawn. I don't mind it, and it's none of your concern.


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

Toasty9399 said:


> You can't really convince people to stop making porn of their characters.



This is the equivalent of trying to convince any fandom to stop making porn, period.
Rule 34 baby!

Tis a powerful law indeed.

Though that stated I think the OP doesn't want people to necessarily pull a complete stop, rather they wanna find more people who have deep and meaningful characters and stories (maybe even a bit of porn with plot kind of stuff?). Though I can't read minds, that's just what I've taken from the original post. It doesn't seem angry, just sad and fed up with a "lack" of creativity it seems, and to be fair, I can't really blame them.

Do I agree with everything they said?
No.

Do I want more depth and meaning put into things, or to find more characters with said effort?
Would be cool to see. Hence my suggestion of a badass creative group.


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## DingRawD (Jun 17, 2020)

Raever said:


> This is the equivalent of trying to convince any fandom to stop making porn, period.
> Rule 34 baby!


Preach!


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## TyraWadman (Jun 17, 2020)

Raever said:


> I always found this concept extremely creepy, but that may be the 11+ year forum roleplayer in me talking. As with roleplay it was almost always seen as a negative when portraying yourself through a character due to how much drama and escapism (gee, whaddya know?) could result from it. It also made everything that happened with your character that much more sensitively taken, which in a lot of ways could be psychologically damaging for the individuals that didn't know how to separate themselves from their characters properly. While I'm not saying this mindset can't be done healthily - I am saying that it can be really difficult to stay healthy in the long run without any historical, psychological, or personality differences between you and the creation. The power of the mind is a strange, strange thing.
> 
> This makes NSFW artists and NSFW commissioners everywhere look like pathetic anxiety ridden hermits, and I can only assume that the people actually doing this are few and far between compared to the ones who are doing it for the simple sexual fun of it. Mostly because a lot of Furries I meet tend to be functioning adults who are more than capable of flirting, chilling, and hanging out with fellow human beings. This misconception that "a lot of furries can't function so they use art to substitute" is honestly disgusting to me, and a little offensive to the community as a whole when you think about it. Then again, maybe I'm just being sensitive.




This! More times than I can count!!!  Even after leaving the RP communities, I still see journals and art pages (furry or otherwise) where people pour their heart and souls into forging some sort of 'barbie-doll' version of themselves (to put it crudely/bluntly) and then crumble when it isn't well-received. Even if I'm just replying in-character, they still cry and accuse me of attacking them personally and try to get me banned. Apparently everyone is supposed to be sunshine and rainbows and everyone should be willing to sleep with everyone, except my giant lobster robot with a maniacle mad-scientist shrimp performing maintenance in his torso because_ thats just weiiiird_! My persona's habits and looks are_ based _off of me, and there are real-life experiences I've twisted to fit the theme and genre of her story, but she _isn't_ me.

Most of the furries I encounter/have interacted with are those who choose to lose touch with reality because they can't seem to realize that they can be this confident, decent individual. They just have to actually _try_. This, along with the porn, is the only thing I've ever known about them. No wait. There's also the excuse of '_I'm furry because_ _there's more variety to have sex with_' which is just... _a whole other discussion_. 'Cause last I checked, chickadees aren't trying to mount elephants.



Valryth said:


> Some people stand out by being incredibly interesting individuals, and this is something that I would love to get in touch with!



Such as yourself? UuU (desu~)



Valryth said:


> You hide behind the face of a cartoonish animal, yet you are able to be your truest self under this alias. Maybe you're even comfortable with showing how you look like as a human, who knows, but that doesn't really matter as much. _You are able to be who you are. _



I'm not saying this is wrong, more or less adding to the discussion based on my own personal experiences. I grew up with some (what I would call) extremists. I thought it was fun to dabble in fantasy, and of course I went through my edgy phase. We _all_ did. But I was one of the only people to grow out of it. 

These people dedicated their time and ideas to something that would be cool- in a world where what if's and all of their desires could be achieved... but if they spent that same time just working on their own shitty personalities (like not biting people because you're jealous or pretending to date a fictional character that also beats/rapes you or stealing from others, or understanding why romanticizing Nazis is generally frowned upon) they could achieve this same, fantastical feeling in the_ real _world. Magic and dragons might not be as epic or prevalent or magnificent as they used to be, but that doesn't mean you can't experience conflict or scenarios that establish bonds with complete strangers. 

To me, and based on my experiences alone, it's hard for me not to assume that other furries will also use this escapism to dodge accountability in general. But I try not to be bitter. I at least know there is a _0.01%_ of the community that _doesn't_ do this.


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## Limedragon27 (Jun 17, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> This problem is, indeed, something that would be very difficult to fix, requiring a change of heart of an entire unison of furries to have any positive impact. What I will touch upon, however, can do just about anyone-





dragonofdestiny said:


> Everyone should do their best to develop as people, as an unison of a subculture that has deep roots and equally massive potential.
> 
> I would just like to see the true face of this community that, at this pace, we are never going to see.



The problem with the statement of how the community can/should change is two things.

1. The reason why porn is skyrocket in the Furry community is that generally, it's porn that brings in the viewers, the commenters, and most importantly, the money, nearly all big-time artists and various smaller artists draw porn because it gets them more views, more views get more commissioners and more support on things like patron, and with that generates more revenue. Not every artist draws for the sake of money of course, but it's a big factor of why porn art is the most popular. Not to mention if you're a roleplayer, you're more likely to get pms and rp requests if your character has porn art suppose to not, people generally look at that before anything else.

2. Expecting and wanting a collection of different people to change their minds and actions is a very, very bad and inefficient thing to do. In general, people don't want to change their minds/actions just to appease other people if it's something their comfortable and want to do. In the case of Furries, altering what you want to do in the fandom, the characters you make and the art you commission, just to appease eyes outside the fandom is a stupid thing to do. It's because if you're operating just to appease people who aren't even in the community then what would be the point of being in the community? Fact of the matter is people tend to do what they want, no matter what random strangers online thinks.


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> This! More times than I can count!!!  Even after leaving the RP communities, I still see journals and art pages (furry or otherwise) where people pour their heart and souls into forging some sort of 'barbie-doll' version of themselves (to put it crudely/bluntly) and then crumble when it isn't well-received. Even if I'm just replying in-character, they still cry and accuse me of attacking them personally and try to get me banned. Apparently everyone is supposed to be sunshine and rainbows and everyone should be willing to sleep with everyone, except my giant lobster robot with a maniacle mad-scientist shrimp performing maintenance in his torso because_ thats just weiiiird_! My persona's habits and looks are_ based _off of me, and there are real-life experiences I've twisted to fit the theme and genre of her story, but she _isn't_ me.
> 
> Most of the furries I encounter/have interacted with are those who choose to lose touch with reality because they can't seem to realize that they can be this confident, decent individual. They just have to actually _try_. This, along with the porn, is the only thing I've ever known about them. No wait. There's also the excuse of '_I'm furry because_ _there's more variety to have sex with_' which is just... _a whole other discussion_. 'Cause last I checked, chickadees aren't trying to mount elephants.






TyraWadman said:


> I'm not saying this is wrong, more or less adding to the discussion based on my own personal experiences. I grew up with some (what I would call) extremists. I thought it was fun to dabble in fantasy, and of course I went through my edgy phase. We _all_ did. But I was one of the only people to grow out of it.
> 
> These people dedicated their time and ideas to something that would be cool- in a world where what if's and all of their desires could be achieved... but if they spent that same time just working on their own shitty personalities (like not biting people because you're jealous or pretending to date a fictional character that also beats/rapes you or stealing from others, or understanding why romanticizing Nazis is generally frowned upon) they could achieve this same, fantastical feeling in the_ real _world. Magic and dragons might not be as epic or prevalent or magnificent as they used to be, but that doesn't mean you can't experience conflict or scenarios that establish bonds with complete strangers.
> 
> To me, and based on my experiences alone, it's hard for me not to assume that other furries will also use this escapism to dodge accountability in general. But I try not to be bitter. I at least know there is a _0.01%_ of the community that _doesn't_ do this.



I've experienced similar, and agree with you for the most part. Hence my statements above.

I think that there is issue to be taken with those who get far too into the roleplay scene, and people who pretend to be their characters whenever they're online without any break whatsoever can be considered roleplayers too - even if they don't officially roleplay. Not only is it excessive, but it's quite...unhealthy, to a degree. I'm all for a character existing for the purpose of art (sex art included, you do you man) but at the very least maintain a healthy mental seperation so you aren't offended by every little thing. Though, this is extremely off topic in regards to the original post so I'll drop it here.


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## The-Courier (Jun 17, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> This! More times than I can count!!!  Even after leaving the RP communities, I still see journals and art pages (furry or otherwise) where people pour their heart and souls into forging some sort of 'barbie-doll' version of themselves (to put it crudely/bluntly) and then crumble when it isn't well-received. Even if I'm just replying in-character, they still cry and accuse me of attacking them personally and try to get me banned. Apparently everyone is supposed to be sunshine and rainbows and everyone should be willing to sleep with everyone, except my giant lobster robot with a maniacle mad-scientist shrimp performing maintenance in his torso because_ thats just weiiiird_! My persona's habits and looks are_ based _off of me, and there are real-life experiences I've twisted to fit the theme and genre of her story, but she _isn't_ me.
> 
> Most of the furries I encounter/have interacted with are those who choose to lose touch with reality because they can't seem to realize that they can be this confident, decent individual. They just have to actually _try_. This, along with the porn, is the only thing I've ever known about them. No wait. There's also the excuse of '_I'm furry because_ _there's more variety to have sex with_' which is just... _a whole other discussion_. 'Cause last I checked, chickadees aren't trying to mount elephants.
> 
> ...



I try to separate sona from actual characters as much as I can. I tend to run into a lot of people in RP communities that are unable to separate reality from fiction (I've actually had these people get me banned or straight up start a flame war with me in the middle of OOC chat because my character being a dick to their's was completely within his personality).
That being said, having an _actual_ sona and not just random human character number forty-three-thousand is entirely new territory for me and I'm learning as I go.


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## Valryth (Jun 17, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> This! More times than I can count!!!  Even after leaving the RP communities, I still see journals and art pages (furry or otherwise) where people pour their heart and souls into forging some sort of 'barbie-doll' version of themselves (to put it crudely/bluntly) and then crumble when it isn't well-received. Even if I'm just replying in-character, they still cry and accuse me of attacking them personally and try to get me banned. Apparently everyone is supposed to be sunshine and rainbows and everyone should be willing to sleep with everyone, except my giant lobster robot with a maniacle mad-scientist shrimp performing maintenance in his torso because_ thats just weiiiird_! My persona's habits and looks are_ based _off of me, and there are real-life experiences I've twisted to fit the theme and genre of her story, but she _isn't_ me.
> 
> Most of the furries I encounter/have interacted with are those who choose to lose touch with reality because they can't seem to realize that they can be this confident, decent individual. They just have to actually _try_. This, along with the porn, is the only thing I've ever known about them. No wait. There's also the excuse of '_I'm furry because_ _there's more variety to have sex with_' which is just... _a whole other discussion_. 'Cause last I checked, chickadees aren't trying to mount elephants.
> 
> ...



This is actually very interesting, and I wasn't expecting you to pry so deep! 

(And, well... Thank you for the compliment, heh.)

Honestly, I have to agree with you. There's a huge amount of people trying to make their "irl-based fursona" have every single positive trait imaginable as a weird form of overcompensating for that which they are not, and as expected, that's a "castle of cards" situation where the slightest thing makes it all crumble down and leads them to frustration! But this actually touches a different subject which I wouldn't really want to explore right now, but it's ultimately the fact that a trend within the furry community is that people try to use their furry identity to cover up every single character flaw they have and see it as positive reinforcement for bad behaviour as opposed to simply trying to work on things that are objectively intolerable. (Don't want to seem like I'm above everyone or anything, I'm definitely quite flawed myself!)

It does make sense that the forums attract a more mature crowd, however! I'm glad I stick around because there's definitely a bigger slice of the furry community that I enjoy on here.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 17, 2020)

Tldr. Sorry. You're really getting your panties in a twist over this. Anyone can do whatever they want. I'd like to see you go after women for "sexualizing" themselves for showing, how dare I even speak of it, legs and shoulders. _Gasp_ For real though. Take a chill pill please.


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## Foxy Emy (Jun 17, 2020)

'Aight! Listen up.

Every character we write is a part of us. They come from our imagination, so there is no escaping it. But there is a difference between a character that is a figment of yourself personified and a character that is your idealized self.

There is nothing wrong with pouring your heart and soul into a character that is representation of how you see yourself. Just *DON'T RP with them!*

Nothing wrong with them existing in your head canon, written works, or other types of art. But for goodness sake, RP stands for "role playing..." As in playing a role you would not in real life.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Jun 17, 2020)

Skittles said:


> I am an Adonis in squirrel form!!! -Poses-


Adonis eh? Nah that name is to good for you! Your name now is Mid-Boss. ( Disgaea: Hour of Darkness (Video Game) - TV Tropes this is what I am referring to.)


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## KnightsSorrow (Jun 17, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Tldr. Sorry. You're really getting your panties in a twist over this. Anyone can do whatever they want. I'd like to see you go after women for "sexualizing" themselves for showing, how dare I even speak of it, legs and shoulders. _Gasp_ For real though. Take a chill pill please.


Shoulders and legs? How scandalous! A lady should not show off her ankle, let alone a leg. Even an ankle is most improper and can lead men to impure thoughts.

Though seriously, if it's your fursona, your OC, or escapism... let it be to you what you need it to be. If you want a plethora of characters with backstories in a breathing world, free of smut and lewdness, do that. If you want a hyper sexual and promiscuous fursona to live out fantasies that you know you'll never act out in real life, do that.

You do you. Or in some cases, you do your fursona.


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## Marflebark (Jun 17, 2020)

"stop oversexualizing your fursonas"

No.


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## Bababooey (Jun 17, 2020)

I like some substance in my characters. Both metaphorically and _*literally*_.


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

KnightsSorrow said:


> You do you. Or in some cases, you do your fursona.



I'll take both, please.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 17, 2020)

So if someone gives a heartfelt soliloquy while drilling someone into the next timezone... You'd be happy? I'm not even picturing your desired outcome to properly give an answer.


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## KnightsSorrow (Jun 17, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> So if someone gives a heartfelt soliloquy while drilling someone into the next timezone... You'd be happy? I'm not even picturing your desired outcome to properly give an answer.


If a naked mathematician can have an epiphany in a bathtub followed by streaking through the streets, why can't you have a soliloquy while getting hot and steamy in the sheets?


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## Rayd (Jun 17, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> stuff



this is all assuming that the people who have mostly sexual art of their character and act sexual within the community _don't _have a canon, meaningful story, which frankly, most people already do, they just aren't able to express it as well because they aren't artists, which is actually my exact problem.

i used to only commission SFW art of my character and his story. it wouldn't be long before i got tired of the limitations of commissioning art of my story as opposed to actually being able to draw my ideas myself, and transitioned my gallery into a more non-canon NSFW gallery. at times i'm ashamed of it and frustrated that there isn't more i could do to express my character's _canon_ story, but i try my best to get over it, and at the very least, i'll always have my story in text, and i can always say that the NSFW version of my character isn't canon.

19 times out of 20, the people who do express their stories in their galleries are artists, because it's a lot easier for them to do so as artists than commissioners. i envy artists a lot for that at times.

i do agree though, it's a slight insecurity of mine that these neon-colored femboy characters can exist for a couple months and instantly be more popular and adored than mine simply because the person who owns it dumps their money on $300-$500 NSFW pieces. it just goes to show how truly sexual this fandom is when they value NSFW over SFW that much.


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## KD142000 (Jun 17, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> this is all assuming that the people who have mostly sexual art of their character and act sexual within the community _don't _have a canon, meaningful story, which frankly, most people already do, they just aren't able to express it as well because they aren't artists, which is actually my exact problem.
> 
> i used to only commission SFW art of my character and his story. it wouldn't be long before i got tired of the limitations of commissioning art of my story as opposed to actually being able to draw my ideas myself, and transitioned my gallery into a more non-canon NSFW gallery. at times i'm ashamed of it and frustrated that there isn't more i could do to express my character's _canon_ story, but i try my best to get over it, and at the very least, i'll always have my story in text, and i can always say that the NSFW version of my character isn't canon.
> 
> ...


Your character is lovely, though!

I do understand what you mean. Sometimes people do value NSFW art more than SFW. But then again, the people who like your character just cos they're sexy aren't the sort of fans you'd want anyways.

Maybe stories and publishing journals about them is the best way to express the canon?


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## Skittles (Jun 17, 2020)

Dearie me this turned into quite the discussion.

Copy pasted myself into my Sona. No backstory. Just a slightly exaggerated version of my own self and personality(Flaws and all). Had no issues.

I guess it really depends on the characters owner. -Scratches head-


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 17, 2020)

I don't get what's so wrong with letting people do with their characters as they like?


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## Punkedsolar (Jun 17, 2020)

I'm suddenly flashing back to when I used to have a very 'self' 'Sona and did what was basically an art trade and got back tentacle porn with my 'Sona.

I was really, REALLY uncomfortable D:


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## Raever (Jun 17, 2020)

Punkedsolar said:


> I'm suddenly flashing back to when I used to have a very 'self' 'Sona and did what was basically an art trade and got back tentacle porn with my 'Sona.
> 
> I was really, REALLY uncomfortable D:



This is why you don't do art trades with "me-but-furry" characters.
Or really anything that allows for, uh *ahems* "Extreme creative freedom?" >.>;
Unless you're into that, anyway lol


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## Punkedsolar (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> This is why you don't do art trades with "me-but-furry" characters.
> Or really anything that allows for, uh *ahems* "Extreme creative freedom?" >.>;
> Unless you're into that, anyway lol



It honestly never occurred to me that for a normal trade that I'd need to explicitly say 'No sex'.


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## Sir Thaikard (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Tldr. Sorry. You're really getting your panties in a twist over this. Anyone can do whatever they want. I'd like to see you go after women for "sexualizing" themselves for showing, how dare I even speak of it, legs and shoulders. _Gasp_ For real though. Take a chill pill please.



As long as they don't do anything degenerate like show off an ankle we're all good.

Next you'll tell me that people are holding hands in _public._ Perish the thought.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 18, 2020)

Sir Thaikard said:


> As long as they don't do anything degenerate like show off an ankle we're all good.
> 
> Next you'll tell me that people are holding hands in _public._ Perish the thought.



Did you know that in some places, they let the women wear PANTS. And the men wear shits without SLEEVES.

Not only that, NOBODY WEARS HATS. How can we know anything people when they're without HATS?!


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## Rhys Tieran (Jun 18, 2020)

.... But what if your Sona is a slut? 

In all seriousness, people should do what they want with their Sonas. I totally get if it sort of breaks your 'immersion' with the character, but it's that person's to do with as they wish.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

There's the concept of the "Id" character. It translates more to the "Wish Fulfillment/Power Fantasy" character. The character does and says things that you personally would not dare do in real life. Sexual characters are filling the sexuality role of that fantasy and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> So if someone gives a heartfelt soliloquy while drilling someone into the next timezone... You'd be happy? I'm not even picturing your desired outcome to properly give an answer.


This would make a hilarious pic. I shall be stealing this idea, thank you. U_U


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jun 18, 2020)

I have mixed feelings about this.


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## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

Rhys Tieran said:


> .... But what if your Sona is a slut?
> 
> In all seriousness, people should do what they want with their Sonas. I totally get if it sort of breaks your 'immersion' with the character, but it's that person's to do with as they wish.



Jokes aside, there's more to nymphos than just sex. Sex just happens to play a more prominent role in their life. I say any character can be a bit more sexually active than normal and still have depth to them. Maybe they struggle with it? Maybe they do it to bury other emotions? If enough effort is applied almost any scenario or character can be given depth without taking the fun out of a good old fashioned sex scene.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> Jokes aside, there's more to nymphos than just sex. Sex just happens to play a more prominent role in their life. I say any character can be a bit more sexually active than normal and still have depth to them. Maybe they struggle with it? Maybe they do it to bury other emotions? If enough effort is applied almost any scenario or character can be given depth without taking the fun out of a good old fashioned sex scene.


This. Reasons for sex isn't as simple as it seems and it's not always for bad/tragic reasons.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Your character is lovely, though!
> 
> I do understand what you mean. Sometimes people do value NSFW art more than SFW. But then again, the people who like your character just cos they're sexy aren't the sort of fans you'd want anyways.
> 
> Maybe stories and publishing journals about them is the best way to express the canon?



oh, trust me, i know. the kind of crowds these popular neon femboy sonas attract are typically socially inept weirdos anyway. so while i believe i really shouldn't care, it still rests on my conscious at times, regardless. i don't envy them for their fanbase, but moreso the artists they commission and how often they do so (seriously though, a lot of these people always have a never ending "waiting on" list that's legitimately never empty, and most of the artists they have on them charge hundreds for their art. i don't know where they get their money from, not that it's any of my business, but.)

what's crazier is that the few people i've talked to who have those type of characters and those kind of galleries describe their commissioning frequency as an addiction, and are always having financial trouble because of it. kinda sad, really.

anyways, referring to your last line, while i don't write nearly as often as i used to, i typically keep my work in textpads because i know if i were to upload them anywhere public that nobody would care enough to read them, and would potentially even cause people to unwatch me. so it's just not worth it to me, so i never share anything i write unless people ask me about it.


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## Rhys Tieran (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> Jokes aside, there's more to nymphos than just sex. Sex just happens to play a more prominent role in their life. I say any character can be a bit more sexually active than normal and still have depth to them. Maybe they struggle with it? Maybe they do it to bury other emotions? If enough effort is applied almost any scenario or character can be given depth without taking the fun out of a good old fashioned sex scene.


Very good point, and I fully agree. Any character I've ever roleplayed, minus a few, usually use it as procreation or healthy recreation. I've had a couple use sex unhealthily to offset their boring job or to blot out feelings that they didn't want to confront because it was just much easier that way. A couple more characters simply wanted to live life to the fullest and use it as much as they could. It didn't take much to establish a role that sex played in their life. And I bet that most characters also fall under one of these reasons, even if they don't seem apparent at first glance.


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## dragonofdestiny (Jun 18, 2020)

Thanks for all the responses, everyone! This post really got a lot of attention over one night, flew way above my expectations. Whilst I'm happy this didn't die with two comments, the three pages are kind of counteractive, too. I wish I could go claw-to-claw with every response, but there really don't seem to be the resources to do so. I'll try to refer to things in general instead.

Some of the comments made me realize that I should have titled this "Please consider focusing on more meaningful parts of your characters instead of sexuality." With emphasis on "please". I get how people see this as an angry, kind of bossy rant about how people should and should not be acting; this wasn't really my intention. Yes, it *is *your choice what path you're going to take and what decisions you want to make, I'm fine with that. That's what makes creativity and the ambiguity of life so fun. All this was more of a suggestion for people to consider taking up some deeper development for their fursonas and stories. Doesn't take a detective to realise I'm a sucker for writing, and equally so for reading, much less for sex; it's why I don't only consider my suggestion fresh and interesting, but also helpful and productive for the creator themself. On the other side, however, some people considering it boring and time-wasting instead. That's why it's a suggestion, I can't really force people's perspectives, can I?

And the arrogancy with which some people responded (especially the "Make me" responses, very mature) makes me question just how enraged and furious I sounded myself; I really did get my panties in a twist, didn't I? /s 
Even then, it was fun to listen to the other side of the argument since, I must agree, I'm wrong in some parts.

Oh and thanks Raever and Valryth for having some of the nicer comments here. V's notice of how this IS the true face of the community made me question my own beliefs, I'll consider this. Either way I'm not sure how to put this without sounding biased, since you're partly on my side, so I'll just leave it like this.


All of this is more fun than I had anticipated, thanks ^^

yeah i posted this too early a second before, sorry


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## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> Thanks for all the responses, everyone! This post really got a lot of attention over one night, flew way above my expectations. Whilst I'm happy this didn't die with two comments, the three pages are kind of counteractive, too. I wish I could go claw-to-claw with every response, but there really don't seem to be the resources to do so. I'll try to refer to things in general instead.
> 
> Some of the comments made me realize that I should have titled this "Please consider focusing on more meaningful parts of your characters instead of sexuality." With emphasis on "please". I get how people see this as an angry, kind of bossy rant about how people should and should not be acting; this wasn't really my intention. Yes, it *is *your choice what path you're going to take and what decisions you want to make, I'm fine with that. That's what makes creativity and the ambiguity of life so fun. All this was more of a suggestion for people to consider taking up some deeper development for their fursonas and stories. Doesn't take a detective to realise I'm a sucker for writing, and equally so for reading, much less for sex; it's why I don't only consider my suggestion fresh and interesting, but also helpful and productive for the creator themself. On the other side, however, some people considering it boring and time-wasting instead. That's why it's a suggestion, I can't really force people's perspectives, can I?
> 
> ...



I actually appreciate you bringing things up. While to some it could have come across as judgemental and brash, to me it was just a writer being passionate about their community and how things are presented in it. Maybe I'm biased myself - being a fellow writer, - but it certainly didn't feel like a negative post, and it got people talking. Overall it feels like a successful thread in my book, just gotta work on the wordplay a bit more and you'll be golden.


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## BunBunArt (Jun 18, 2020)

I don't have a sona though, only original characters and they all have stories and I have been working on my world (maps, politics, government, laws...) for 9 years already. All my characters have amazing (for me) backstories, quite complex and meaningful, also I don't just create furries, I actually only have 4 furry characters for my comic and like... 35 non-furries. But they're all in the same world that I created where anthros exist (I love fantasy so I created a crazy super fantasy world and I love every single part of it)

BUT I do enjoy drawing some of them being sexy hot and with NSFW side stories... and I won't feel bad about that. =(


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> BUT I do enjoy drawing some of them being sexy hot and with NSFW side stories... and I won't feel bad about that. =(


Oh yeah!?


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## BunBunArt (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Oh yeah!?



YEAH.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> YEAH.


OH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH!?~


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## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> OH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH!?~



Suddenly I'm reminded of a tmnt scene.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> Suddenly I'm reminded of a tmnt scene.


_*OH YEAH!?*_


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

Raaaawr?


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## ConorHyena (Jun 18, 2020)

People should do what makes them happy. If it is being the fandom slut, all powers to them. 
My personal opinion is that I really don't need another space in my life where I have to worry about what others think of me. If someone decides to dislike another because of the amount of NSFW artwork I do or do not have, sure, that's fine. If people go public to ostracize these people ("_you_ have too much NSFW artwork and that makes your character shallow") I personally think that pushes the ridiculous boundary. 

Other than that, people really should stop giving a fuck about the 'public perception of this fandom' I mean, it's not like the furry fandom is up for election or smth. Remember that quite a lot of people still think call of duty makes you go commit crimes.


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## Valryth (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> I actually appreciate you bringing things up. While to some it could have come across as judgemental and brash, to me it was just a writer being passionate about their community and how things are presented in it. Maybe I'm biased myself - being a fellow writer, - but it certainly didn't feel like a negative post, and it got people talking. Overall it feels like a successful thread in my book, just gotta work on the wordplay a bit more and you'll be golden.



I definitely agree with you! I'm actually quite glad that OP created this thread and that it got the traction that it did (the plethora of replies are more than enough evidence that these topics are always going to be very torn because of how diverse the community is).



dragonofdestiny said:


> Thanks for all the responses, everyone! This post really got a lot of attention over one night, flew way above my expectations. Whilst I'm happy this didn't die with two comments, the three pages are kind of counteractive, too. I wish I could go claw-to-claw with every response, but there really don't seem to be the resources to do so. I'll try to refer to things in general instead.
> 
> Some of the comments made me realize that I should have titled this "Please consider focusing on more meaningful parts of your characters instead of sexuality." With emphasis on "please". I get how people see this as an angry, kind of bossy rant about how people should and should not be acting; this wasn't really my intention. Yes, it *is *your choice what path you're going to take and what decisions you want to make, I'm fine with that. That's what makes creativity and the ambiguity of life so fun. All this was more of a suggestion for people to consider taking up some deeper development for their fursonas and stories. Doesn't take a detective to realise I'm a sucker for writing, and equally so for reading, much less for sex; it's why I don't only consider my suggestion fresh and interesting, but also helpful and productive for the creator themself. On the other side, however, some people considering it boring and time-wasting instead. That's why it's a suggestion, I can't really force people's perspectives, can I?
> 
> ...



I definitely need to thank you too, while I may have said what I said, they were all ideas that started to boil after reading the content of this thread! So I think that you really did make us think about things in a different way and (in my case, at least) taught us something new! That's why talking about these things is always important.

Sure, you may have seemed "biased" in your post. But it was needed so that we could consider things from the side of what is obviously a vocal minority within the fandom, one that we don't even always acknowledge as such! It's a really good thing to learn about different points of view.

Honestly, I get you! You expressed yourself quite well, even though I can _also_ see why some people may have been completely skeptical towards your original post too...

Either way, you left me with a little something to think about, so I'd like to say that this thread was pretty great! Hopefully you may have learned something new yourself, that's always important!


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> *This one has been sitting in my mind for some time now, and after some consideration I decided to share my thoughts. It'll go on for a second, but don't be too concerned.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm proudly sex-positive, so I have a few words to share.
I ended up discovering the NSFW side of the furry fandom long before I discovered and fell in love with the SFW side of it. The adult stuff hooked me in, and only once that stuff had my attention, I was able to fall in love with the other stuff.
I have a problem with you saying that we should tone down the sexual nature of the fandom to appease people who hate us and likely will always hate us until the end of time. And honestly, I feel like our time is better spent trying to repair the sex-averse attitudes that still linger in the west instead of kowtowing to people who hate any form of free expression that doesn't appeal to conservative Baby Boomers.
I also have a problem with you saying that since the lion's share of my character's artwork is NSFW, that means my fursona has no character whatsoever. The opposite is true. Jamie has a rich backstory which involves tragically losing his mother when he was 6 years old and getting cursed with a were form as a result of the archaeological accident his mother got into. But, none of that matters because most of my art of my character is intended for an adult audience?
At the end of the day, if you don't like porn, don't look at it. If you want the SFW side of the fandom to grow, by all means, help it grow! I actually agree that we need a stronger SFW element to the fandom so that minors and asexuals can play a bigger part in our community. But, I draw the line at toning down the sex-positive nature of the fandom. I know that you seem to find it irritating and shallow and frivolous, but people who enjoy it aren't all Glenn Quagmire; I find it to be a spiritual and healing experience. So, please, just let people do what they like as long as it's not harming others; live and let live.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Other than that, people really should stop giving a fuck about the 'public perception of this fandom' I mean, it's not like the furry fandom is up for election or smth. Remember that quite a lot of people still think call of duty makes you go commit crimes.


I know, right!? Why can't people just do what makes them happy instead of pleasing total strangers who live shallow and miserable lives.
In my experience, people who are super-judgemental tend to have vapid and empty lives and can only validate themselves through the appearance of being "normal" and mocking "degenerates".
We have to normalize being different in society instead of conforming to whatever the hivemind deems to be "normal".


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## dragonofdestiny (Jun 18, 2020)

RoxyHana said:


> BUT I do enjoy drawing some of them being sexy hot and with NSFW side stories... and I won't feel bad about that. =(





FluffyShutterbug said:


> I also have a problem with you saying that since the lion's share of my character's artwork is NSFW, that means my fursona has no character whatsoever.



Admittedly, I forgot to address this possibility where someone has both sexual and artistic prowess in their characters. There's no point for me in denying the fact, that bearing both sides *still *makes you shallow. It doesn't. Sorry.



FluffyShutterbug said:


> I have a problem with you saying that we should tone down the sexual nature of the fandom to appease people who hate us and likely will always hate us until the end of time.



You clearly misunderstood me. In my head, the point of toning down the seuxal side would be to focus on something more meaningful (I've already covered what that would be, what would be its advantages etc.), not to make outside people look at us normally again.

Additionally:



FluffyShutterbug said:


> I know, right!? Why can't people just do what makes them happy instead of pleasing total strangers who live shallow and miserable lives.
> In my experience, people who are super-judgemental tend to have vapid and empty lives and can only validate themselves through the appearance of being "normal" and mocking "degenerates".
> We have to normalize being different in society instead of conforming to whatever the hivemind deems to be "normal".



I'm all behind being open about your furry side, I'm just as acceptive of it as with other subcultures and ideas, like otherkin. They make everyday life and everyday people more fun and interesting, at the cost of standing out from the rest (is it even a cost?). But some furries act overly sexual and don't keep it to themselves to a reasonable point when interacting with outside people, making these people look down badly upon us, generalizing us with stereotypes they gained from looking at the ones that are most without these reasonable borders. 

Then what happens to normal, casual furries who just want to enjoy the art and poetry and ideas of the subculture, along with being open to others about it? They get struck down with the same, disgusting sexual stigma, which's image has been given to them by ucontrollable-sexually individuals. 
*
That's* what I mean; I don't mean to hold your tongue to hide your beliefs, but instead to hide what is otherwise socially and morally unacceptable, so that others can keep their image intact. Not everyone new to the fandom has as much resilience as a veteran, and such attitude from others is discouraging.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> Admittedly, I forgot to address this possibility where someone has both sexual and artistic prowess in their characters. There's no point for me in denying the fact, that bearing both sides *still *makes you shallow. It doesn't. Sorry.


How does enjoying sex make you automatically shallow? I don't get it.


dragonofdestiny said:


> You clearly misunderstood me. In my head, the point of toning down the seuxal side would be to focus on something more meaningful (I've already covered what that would be, what would be its advantages etc.), not to make outside people look at us normally again.


Now, that's just a completely subjective opinion. If you really want to follow this argument to its extreme, one could argue that adults shouldn't even be furries anyway. Obviously, I hate the "It's just for kids!" argument with a burning passion, but it's up to the individual to determine what constitutes time being spent "meaningfully".


dragonofdestiny said:


> I'm all behind being open about your furry side, I'm just as acceptive of it as with other subcultures and ideas, like otherkin. They make everyday life and everyday people more fun and interesting, at the cost of standing out from the rest (is it even a cost?). But some furries act overly sexual and don't keep it to themselves to a reasonable point when interacting with outside people, making these people look down badly upon us, generalizing us with stereotypes they gained from looking at the ones that are most without these reasonable borders.
> 
> Then what happens to normal, casual furries who just want to enjoy the art and poetry and ideas of the subculture, along with being open to others about it? They get struck down with the same, disgusting sexual stigma, which's image has been given to them by ucontrollable-sexually individuals.
> *
> That's* what I mean; I don't mean to hold your tongue to hide your beliefs, but instead to hide what is otherwise socially and morally unacceptable, so that others can keep their image intact. Not everyone new to the fandom has as much resilience as a veteran, and such attitude from others is discouraging.


But, you said earlier that we shouldn't care about what outsiders said, only to say that SFW furries are getting mocked by normies and that NSFW furries should change to "clean up" the fandom's image.

Forgive me if I'm being a bit testy, but this isn't sitting right with me. It's one thing to find pornography irritating. But it's something else to sneer at those who enjoy it.
There's a fine line between airing your opinions and telling others how they should behave, and you're really struggling to remain on the former side.


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## Purplefuzz (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> But, you said earlier that we shouldn't care about what outsiders said, only to say that SFW furries are getting mocked by normies and that NSFW furries should change to "clean up" the fandom's image.
> 
> Forgive me if I'm being a bit testy, but this isn't sitting right with me. It's one thing to find pornography irritating. But it's something else to sneer at those who enjoy it.
> There's a fine line between airing your opinions and telling others how they should behave, and you're really struggling to remain on the former side.



What i find telling the ones who dislike porn/yiff online. Are same creeps that will moan about it, And in many cases raid NSFW groups. While saying that furries are annoying about shoving their views on others & need to shut up?.

Hellbent prettty much did that in 5+ of his streams, Then joked how his buddy raided a second life group for being porn based(maybe a furry one)?.


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## ConorHyena (Jun 18, 2020)

also, food for thought

the fandom is not a community. Communities and fandoms are not the same, with an important difference being that you can exclude someone from a community, but you can't exclude someone from a fandom.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 18, 2020)

I'm here to voice my opinion that everybody's fursonas should be even sexier. :}


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> I'm here to voice my opinion that everybody's fursonas should be even sexier. :}


I am actually adding more layers of clothing. Because Lolita Squirlf! Ha!


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Skittles said:


> I am actually adding more layers of clothing. Because Lolita Squirlf! Ha!


But what if it's 30 degrees outside!? You'll melt into a puddle!!!


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> But what if it's 30 degrees outside!? You'll melt into a puddle!!!


I'll look adorable as I melt~ Also parasol!


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> But what if it's 30 degrees outside!? You'll melt into a puddle!!!


Beauty knows no pain.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

Purplefuzz said:


> What i find telling the ones who dislike porn/yiff online. Are same creeps that will moan about it, And in many cases raid NSFW groups. While saying that furries are annoying about shoving their views on others & need to shut up?.


I personally dislike NSFW furry content myself, but that doesn't mean I need to be a creep who ruins other peoples fun.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 18, 2020)

I have decided I will make my fursona less sexy. 

He now has uncontrollable flatulence. :{

I won't tell people about this though until the middle of roleplays. :}


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> I personally dislike NSFW furry content myself, but that doesn't mean I need to be a creep who ruins other peoples fun.


That's essentially what I said. (Minus the part about not liking NSFW stuff) I personally think that the SFW side needs to be grown and better represented because I feel like it'd improve inclusiveness. But we don't have to dilute the NSFW side to make that happen. Both the "clean" and "dirty "sides of the furry fandom can co-exist.


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## Sarachaga (Jun 18, 2020)

As someone that has 0 interest in the nsfw side of the fandom, I can say this:
You do you fam.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> Admittedly, I forgot to address this possibility where someone has both sexual and artistic prowess in their characters. There's no point for me in denying the fact, that bearing both sides *still *makes you shallow. It doesn't. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know. I used to be a dick. I got upset one time because of the stigma of all furries being autistic. So I would make a fuss in threads about autistic furries. That was fucking horrible of me to do. But I have a feeling you could learn from my story. This is just the way things are. You have to deal with it. If people are upset about them being labeled as fetishists for being a furry, it just kinda goes with being a furry. Really if it makes you upset, you're the one who placed the label on yourself. No one else did.


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## ConorHyena (Jun 18, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> I'm here to voice my opinion that everybody's fursonas should be even sexier. :}



I love you, fallow, in the most heterosexual way possible.


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## dragonofdestiny (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You know. I used to be a dick. I got upset one time because of the stigma of all furries being autistic. So I would make a fuss in threads about autistic furries. That was fucking horrible of me to do. But I have a feeling you could learn from my story. This is just the way things are. You have to deal with it. If people are upset about them being labeled as fetishists for being a furry, it just kinda goes with being a furry. Really if it makes you upset, you're the one who placed the label on yourself. No one else did.



I placed a label on myself that calls me a furry. By definition, it should mean: "A person with interests tied to media with characters bearing animal properties, whether feral animals, anthropomorphic etc." (the list of possible definitions is long) However, thanks to the impression people got of us it was changed to: "A person sexually into animals, possibly zoophilia, with some other weird kinks tied into it.". I know from experience. Which label would *you* prefer to wear?




FluffyShutterbug said:


> How does enjoying sex make you automatically shallow? I don't get it.



I mean that having a character heavy on the sexual side makes *it* shallow, not the creator. Sorry, I should proof-read more.



FluffyShutterbug said:


> you said earlier that we shouldn't care about what outsiders said


Where?



FluffyShutterbug said:


> Forgive me if I'm being a bit testy, but this isn't sitting right with me. It's one thing to find pornography irritating. But it's something else to sneer at those who enjoy it.
> There's a fine line between airing your opinions and telling others how they should behave, and you're really struggling to remain on the former side.



I'd wager you didn't read my posts clearly. I'm sneering at people who make us look bad by shoving their kinks into outside people, not people who simply enjoy it. I know, I know; you do you. But by doing that you make others look equal, those who probably don't even want to be associated with what you're doing. It's a topic of respect for yourself and the comfort of others, both of which are clearly missing in our fandom.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> I placed a label on myself that calls me a furry. By definition, it should mean: "A person with interests tied to media with characters bearing animal properties, whether feral animals, anthropomorphic etc." (the list of possible definitions is long) However, thanks to the impression people got of us it was changed to: "A person sexually into animals, possibly zoophilia, with some other weird kinks tied into it.". I know from experience. Which label would *you* prefer to wear?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't change what other people think. And you know the stigma. If you don't want to deal with it to enjoy what you like, stop being a furry.


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## dragonofdestiny (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You can't change what other people think. And you know the stigma. If you don't want to deal with it to enjoy what you like, stop being a furry.



Who said I don't enjoy what I like? I can easily focus on myself. But why completely ignore it? I have full right to speak up about it, from what I presume. Can't say I'm creating a groundbreaking revolution, but even then I don't like being a conformist that much.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> Who said I don't enjoy what I like? I can easily focus on myself. But why completely ignore it? I have full right to speak up about it, from what I presume. Can't say I'm creating a groundbreaking revolution, but even then I don't like being a conformist that much.


You have every right to say whatever you want but people also have the right to tell you how dumb and whiney this is. Just being honest fam.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> I placed a label on myself that calls me a furry. By definition, it should mean: "A person with interests tied to media with characters bearing animal properties, whether feral animals, anthropomorphic etc." (the list of possible definitions is long) However, thanks to the impression people got of us it was changed to: "A person sexually into animals, possibly zoophilia, with some other weird kinks tied into it.". I know from experience. Which label would *you* prefer to wear?


Who the heck have you been talking to? The anime icon army on Twitter!? In my experience, only trolls, fascism sympathizers, or both, are the ones who call us "zoophiles".


dragonofdestiny said:


> I mean that having a character heavy on the sexual side makes *it* shallow, not the creator. Sorry, I should proof-read more.


So, Jamie's strong NSFW side totally negates all other aspects of his character, then?


dragonofdestiny said:


> Where?


"You clearly misunderstood me. In my head, the point of toning down the seuxal side would be to focus on something more meaningful (I've already covered what that would be, what would be its advantages etc.), not to make outside people look at us normally again."


dragonofdestiny said:


> I'd wager you didn't read my posts clearly. I'm sneering at people who make us look bad by shoving their kinks into outside people, not people who simply enjoy it. I know, I know; you do you. But by doing that you make others look equal, those who probably don't even want to be associated with what you're doing. It's a topic of respect for yourself and the comfort of others, both of which are clearly missing in our fandom.


So, now we're going from sharing opinions to outright saying "You're a jerk if you refuse to stop being sex-positive". Look, adult spaces are already segregated from underage people and those who don't want to see it. Which means you're literally just stewing in your house getting offended at what other people *might* be doing.
I really hate to use this word, but I'm getting a clear picture of what you are, and you appear to be a *prude*.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> Who said I don't enjoy what I like? I can easily focus on myself. But why completely ignore it? I have full right to speak up about it, from what I presume. Can't say I'm creating a groundbreaking revolution, but even then I don't like being a conformist that much.


And you're chastising people for not conforming to _your _opinion.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

i don't even think she was trying to force her opinion on anyone, i just think the way she's been wording all of her posts made it seem that way, just to be completely fair. to me, this shouldn't have been written as a "rant" moreso than an unpopular opinion.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> i don't even think she was trying to force her opinion on anyone, i just think the way she's been wording all of her posts made it seem that way, just to be completely fair. to me, this shouldn't have been written as a "rant" moreso than an unpopular opinion.


"I'm sneering at people who make us look bad by shoving their kinks into outside people, not people who simply enjoy it. I know, I know; you do you. But by doing that you make others look equal, those who probably don't even want to be associated with what you're doing. It's a topic of respect for yourself and the comfort of others, both of which are clearly missing in our fandom."


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> "I'm sneering at people who make us look bad by shoving their kinks into outside people, not people who simply enjoy it. I know, I know; you do you. But by doing that you make others look equal, those who probably don't even want to be associated with what you're doing. It's a topic of respect for yourself and the comfort of others, both of which are clearly missing in our fandom."


yeah, i read it, you don't need to write it back to me. lol.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> yeah, i read it, you don't need to write it back to me. lol.


Or did he!?


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 18, 2020)

I'm still not even really sure what this would look like. There's a goal listed, though I find it drastically at odds with what most people are on art sites for, but not what meeting that goal would look like. Posts with pants and walls of texts? Detailed descriptions of everything? We can have just as shallow and vapid art with pants on... The entire vibe I'm getting from this is "I hate how furries are synonymous with perverts" which is valid - don't think anyone here harbors the illusion that the fandom is one of the more respected ones - but also "so stop drawing sex" which is not. Why would we change what we do because people who we owe nothing to and who owe nothing to us might change their mind?

Basically, OP needs to provide an example of what would be "ideal" before anything beyond punching will commence.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Or did he!?


yes


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> yes


I win! Thread closed!


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> I win! Thread closed!


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


>


If I had a penny for overtime I've  heard this.


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

Have you been browsing furry sites with the NSFW filter off? Because that what this post sounds like.



dragonofdestiny said:


> I have to give the spotlight to the problem of pornography and its prevalence within the furry community. Known to everyone, there's no need to discuss how this trend makes our (very talented) subculture look disgusting and unappealing to normal people



Why should we care about what these "normal people" think about us? As far as we know Most of us is not doing anything illegal So I think we should  honestly not care.

*


dragonofdestiny said:



			Stop oversexualizing your fursonas; treat them like characters.
		
Click to expand...

*You can't just tell people on the internet what to do. That is not how it works.
Also you don't own other people's characters they can do what ever they please.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> Have you been browsing furry sites with the NSFW filter off? Because that what this post sounds like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly! Adult content isn't something you just accidentally stumble across (unless you're on the darkweb).


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Exactly! Adult content isn't something you just accidentally stumble across (unless you're on the darkweb).


Exactly! _Except when you casually browse through FurAffinity with the safe option on, stumbling upon a picture of a women round as a balloon and as big as a truck, getting her face stuffed with food while drooling like an idiot._


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Exactly! Adult content isn't something you just accidentally stumble across (unless you're on the darkweb).


THIS.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Exactly! _Except when you casually browse through FurAffinity with the safe option on, stumbling upon a picture of a women round as a balloon and as big as a truck, getting her face stuffed with food while drooling like an idiot._


Doesn't that violate the rules, though?


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Exactly! _Except when you casually browse through FurAffinity with the safe option on, stumbling upon a picture of a women round as a balloon and as big as a truck, getting her face stuffed with food while drooling like an idiot._





FluffyShutterbug said:


> Doesn't that violate the rules, though?



Yea I do admit That is a huge problem. Heck I seen some art that should be in the NSFW category but was not put there. Thats a problem thats worth fixing.


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

That's a tag issue sadly. Or just a lazy numpty.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Doesn't that violate the rules, though?


Absolutely not. A whole thread dedicated to the issue was created, though it didn't lead anywhere. I'll link it before me poking fun at things leads to more off topic discussion.


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Exactly! _Except when you casually browse through FurAffinity with the safe option on, stumbling upon a picture of a women round as a balloon and as big as a truck, getting her face stuffed with food while drooling like an idiot._


Nightmare fuel.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Exactly! Adult content isn't something you just accidentally stumble across (unless you're on the darkweb).



I disagree. Many many websites on the surface web have NSFW content that shouldn't be there. Especially meme sites and image boards. There are always edgy people posting porn or fetishes outside of NSFW categories.

This isn't exclusive to the furry fandom, btw. It happens everywhere.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Skittles said:


> Nightmare fuel.


Or perhaps a trigger for some existentialist contemplation.....?


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Rimna said:


> I disagree. Many many websites on the surface web have NSFW content that shouldn't be there. Especially meme sites and image boards. There are always edgy people posting porn or fetishes outside of NSFW categories.
> 
> This isn't exclusive to the furry fandom, btw. It happens everywhere.


Well, I was talking about it as a general rule.
That, and... I don't ever remember coming across adult content before I started actually consuming it. Have things changed since 2014?


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Absolutely not. A whole thread dedicated to the issue was created, though it didn't lead anywhere. I'll link it before me poking fun at things leads to more off topic discussion.


That's really weird.


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## Arishipshape (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Well, I was talking about it as a general rule.
> That, and... I don't ever remember coming across adult content before I started actually consuming it. Have things changed since 2014?


Absolutely. I'm a minor (and don't attempt to circumvent the filters) and still run into NSFW things on the internet fairly consistently. Especially on FA, but FA is probably the "shadiest" site I frequent so it's not exactly a fair sample or a strike against FA.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

In my opinion I think sexualizing a few OCs is good just so you have that smut folder if like 3000 pics you've collected over the course of your life as a furry (totally talking about a friend and not me <.< >.>) But also take me for example I got flak from some furry artists cause I wanted to have my Hyena Mom OC drawn and I wanted her to be thick (like Dogmom ya know thick thighs, a belly, big boobs, ya know things you would see on a bigger person) while granted at the time I phrased it HORRIBLY and while I take responsibility to that part it's odd getting my request denied cause Appereantly wanting a thick character to some is fetishising, which is fair their is a fetish but for me it's I just like chubby characters bud still like the lithe and toned and down right jacked characters.

I always get one or two pieces of my OCs because they are my characters, I thought if them and they have desires like I do, so I treat the time I spent writing them out as special and get again one or two pieces just further show that hey this character had so much thought out into it I even put thought into kinks and fetishes they would have.

However, I do understand some the points, if you wanna make a character don't model it after a celebrity. Model after what you want and use the celebrity as like a body reference or fashion reference.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Marius Merganser said:


> As a duck, I hope you're not suggesting I start wearing pants.


Put on pants you heathen!


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Put on pants you heathen!


Pants are overrated!! Put on a skirt!


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Arishipshape said:


> Absolutely. I'm a minor (and don't attempt to circumvent the filters) and still run into NSFW things on the internet fairly consistently. Especially on FA, but FA is probably the "shadiest" site I frequent so it's not exactly a fair sample or a strike against FA.


Well, I honestly didn't know. I haven't used content filters in over 6 years, so I genuinely didn't know...


Skittles said:


> Pants are overrated!! Put on a skirt!


Yesss! Everybody should wear skirts!!! ^w^


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> Another thing I forgot to point out about this in regards to writing "deep" characters that happen to be your personal avatar is that in many writing circles, this would be essentially creating a Mary Sue/Marty Sue. No writer of any kind worth their salt would ever want to actually write one of those.
> 
> In my case, having a powerful mystical creature who is used for my personal avatar to do things with some of my other characters, be used in RPs where anything can happen, and have sexy art of is all fine and dandy because he has no elaborate backstory or set place he exists in. However, if I were to try to use him in an actual story, it would be next to impossible because he's such an overpowered and overwhelming character that would render him a Sue in just about any setting.
> 
> Which really, IMO, a setting's often far more important at determining what the characters should be more than anything else.


I disagree, take my Protogen for example I've written two stories about him, several chapters long and I've avoided making him a Marty stue. It's about humanizing the character, they are your personal fersona or muse they are a part of you, they make the same human mistakes and have the same human limits you do if you wrote them that way. While yes I kinda agree if your not careful you can turn it into a marry sue but that's what peer reviews are for and rough drafts as well as storyboarding. 

To say "no writer Worth they're salt would write a personal character they have into a story" (paraphrasing I know but that's what I gleaned from that) that isn't true, if they are worth their salt they will make it work. Look at the Room by Tommy Waiso (can't sleep his name) that is the perfect example that explains your point. But look at scifi scifi writers like Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles, the main character is a Exaclty what we are talking about yet the entire book paints a talestale isolation and loneliness. 

So no you can put your own charactes in a story and be a fantastic writer but you have to make sure you don't pull a Tommy Waiso.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Skittles said:


> Pants are overrated!! Put on a skirt!


Haha skirts are overrated, where someone else's fur.


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Haha skirts are overrated, where someone else's fur.


Do I look like a barbarian!? Wear a dress instead!


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Skittles said:


> Do I look like a barbarian!? Wear a dress instead!


Fuck the dress, go big or go home fake tits, a wig, dress, and make up!


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Fuck the dress, go big or go home fake tits, a wig, dress, and make up!


I like all of those except for the breasts (don't like 'em) and the wig (don't need it. Have you SEEN my sona's luscious locks!?)


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> I like all of those except for the breasts (don't like 'em) and the wig (don't need it. Have you SEEN my sona's luscious locks!?)


Yeah not gonna lie, your sona could get it.


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## pilgrimfromoblivion (Jun 18, 2020)

Keep oversexualizing your fursonas. I need them for research purposes.


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## dragonofdestiny (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Who the heck have you been talking to? The anime icon army on Twitter!? In my experience, only trolls, fascism sympathizers, or both, are the ones who call us "zoophiles".


I've got it from social interaction over the past 5 years I've been in the fandom. Even when you exclude that claim, which *is *outrageous and fake, my point still stands.



FluffyShutterbug said:


> So, Jamie's strong NSFW side totally negates all other aspects of his character, then?





dragonofdestiny said:


> Admittedly, I forgot to address this possibility where someone has both sexual and artistic prowess in their characters. There's no point for me in denying the fact, that bearing both sides *still *makes you shallow. It doesn't. Sorry.





FluffyShutterbug said:


> "You're a jerk if you refuse to stop being sex-positive"


I'm talking about being unreasonably open about fetishes other people are not interested in and are made uncomfortable by. That is *not *sex-positivity.

Are you even paying attention anymore?



FluffyShutterbug said:


> And you're chastising people for not conforming to _your _opinion.





Lexiand said:


> You can't just tell people on the internet what to do. That is not how it works.
> Also you don't own other people's characters they can do what ever they please.





dragonofdestiny said:


> Some of the comments made me realize that I should have titled this "Please consider focusing on more meaningful parts of your characters instead of sexuality." With emphasis on "please". I get how people see this as an angry, kind of bossy rant about how people should and should not be acting; this wasn't really my intention. Yes, it *is *your choice what path you're going to take and what decisions you want to make, I'm fine with that. That's what makes creativity and the ambiguity of life so fun. All this was more of a suggestion for people to consider taking up some deeper development for their fursonas and stories. Doesn't take a detective to realise I'm a sucker for writing, and equally so for reading, much less for sex; it's why I don't only consider my suggestion fresh and interesting, but also helpful and productive for the creator themself. On the other side, however, some people considering it boring and time-wasting instead. That's why it's a suggestion, I can't really force people's perspectives, can I?



Is anyone paying attention anymore?

I get how I'm starting to sound arrogant, but having to repeat the same fact over and over again, to no avail, is tiring.




Ziggy Schlacht said:


> I'm still not even really sure what this would look like. There's a goal listed, though I find it drastically at odds with what most people are on art sites for, but not what meeting that goal would look like. Posts with pants and walls of texts? Detailed descriptions of everything? We can have just as shallow and vapid art with pants on... The entire vibe I'm getting from this is "I hate how furries are synonymous with perverts" which is valid - don't think anyone here harbors the illusion that the fandom is one of the more respected ones - but also "so stop drawing sex" which is not. Why would we change what we do because people who we owe nothing to and who owe nothing to us might change their mind?
> 
> Basically, OP needs to provide an example of what would be "ideal" before anything beyond punching will commence.



This gave me a nice, much-needed insight. From this position I can't really ask for anything "ideal". What I imagine to be fun, would be a situation where I, interested in a person's character, visit their page and find something to actually *read*. In such cases I'm generally greeted by stacks of porn. Nothing really fulfilling.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Fuck the dress, go big or go home fake tits, a wig, dress, and make up!


We are trying to put @Skittles in a suit. You should join my militia!


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> We are trying to put @Skittles in a suit. You should join my militia!


Think you got a suit for this fluffy boy?


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Think you got a suit for this fluffy boy?


Yes, definitely cover up.


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Fuck the dress, go big or go home fake tits, a wig, dress, and make up!


Ok. ;D


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Yeah not gonna lie, your sona could get it.


Wut?


dragonofdestiny said:


> I've got it from social interaction over the past 5 years I've been in the fandom. Even when you exclude that claim, which *is *outrageous and fake, my point still stands.


But, that didn't answer my question. WHO are you talking to? Because I found that people who make that false claim are reactionary in nature or just like ticking off people they view to be lower than them.


dragonofdestiny said:


> I'm talking about being unreasonably open about fetishes other people are not interested in and are made uncomfortable by. That is *not *sex-positivity.
> 
> Are you even paying attention anymore?


I don't talk to people on a one-on-one setting that haven't yet indicated that they're okay with adult stuff about what I'm into. But when it comes to a forum setting that allows for adult talk, yeah, I'm generally open about who I am.


dragonofdestiny said:


> This gave me a nice, much-needed insight. From this position I can't really ask for anything "ideal". What I imagine to be fun, would be a situation where I, interested in a person's character, visit their page and find something to actually *read*. In such cases I'm generally greeted by stacks of porn. Nothing really fulfilling.


Once again, that's just your subjective opinion. I usually get nothing out of SFW art; the only SFW aspect of the fandom I truly enjoy is fursuiting. Are you... Butthurt that the fandom doesn't cater to you more? Because "I'm generally greeted by stacks of porn. Nothing really fulfilling." sounds a lot like "I'm irritated that the fandom doesn't serve *my *needs more."


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## Skittles (Jun 18, 2020)

I feel this thread is deteriorating. Some good points were made. I agree that tagging should be made better. Now. ABANDON SHIP!


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

this thread reeks of arrogancy and self-righteousness from both sides.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Skittles said:


> I feel this thread is deteriorating. Some good points were made. I agree that tagging should be made better. Now. ABANDON SHIP!


Not totally done. I still want my latest set of responses answered by the OP.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> this thread reeks of arrogancy and self-righteousness from both sides.


God, I hope that I'm not one of the "arrogant" ones.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> God, I hope that I'm not one of the "arrogant" ones.


"Get it" means your sona is attractive and extremely boneable.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Yes, definitely cover up.


Hah jokes on you I am covered up, I have speedo and armor!


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## pilgrimfromoblivion (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> God, I hope that I'm not one of the "arrogant" ones.


I came looking for "examples" of the horribly awful no-good Lewd Fursonas.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

pilgrimfromoblivion said:


> I came looking for "examples" of the horribly awful no-good Lewd Fursonas.


I know, this thread is a disgrace!


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> "Get it" means your sona is attractive and extremely boneable.


owo


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Hah jokes on you I am covered up, I have speedo and armor!


Well played.


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## Pipistrele (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> -Anyone who one day sat down and decided to take it upon themselves to create a character to call their own: a piece of their own mind, their interests, loves and hates; an artistic embodiment of themselves. Whether it was for a story, a piece of art, to honour someone, as respect of the person they will never be or simply out of boredom - the sheer possibilities of creating someone new, piece-by-piece, are endless.


Possibilities are indeed endless, therefore trying to limit it by weird moral standards is kinda counter-productive by default.



> Think of the last book, or any piece of poetry, that you had invested yourself in. Think of the character, that one gem unique to you, the only character out of the abundance of faces that made you *feel*. Maybe it made you laugh? Cry? Sit down and ponder about yourself, the world you live in? A character you would love to meet in person, and spend many cheerful moments with? *That *is this power.


If every single character was designed as "_someone you would love to meet in person, and spend many cheerful moments with_", then media would be hard to make and extremely boring. There's time and purpose for all kinds of characters, including oversexualized eye candies;  not every character should be elaborate.



> ...and you would be disappointed to notice just how much of it goes to waste trying to make characters *look. *Many celebrity-lookalikes of furry characters are famous and well-known thanks to their visual appearance and abundant sexual art. And what do you gain from it? Sure, the visual and sexual excitement will make you feel again, but for how long? Masturbation, and this kind of entertainment, has never known to be fulfilling, has it? You know its feeling of emptiness; *it does not help anything. *


Visual design is my favorite aspect of designing OCs, therefore I don't feel empty about making cute characters; frankly, I call bullshit on the whole "substance good style bad" fallacy, and there's a lot of works that inspire with awesome visuals despite barely having character development.



> Instead, imagine converting all the hours of making your character "hot" into making them deep. I don't like this term either, but you know what I mean: giving them a backstory, in-depth emotions and their behaviour, maybe other characters related to them? Hell, create them an entire world of their own - who can stop you?
> 
> Simply sit down and think of the lack of respect for such creations, the love they never get. Why, you don't even have to treat them as figments of your imagination - how about seeing them as they would be* a human*? Every human, even the greyest, most generic face has something to tell, some piece of their past to share, their childhood, what made them *them*. Why should characters be looked down upon as just another shallow face? It does not help anything.
> 
> ...


That's not what I want all my characters to be. If I make a hot cute character, I make one for myself and to express my fantasies, as well as experiment with my artwork and make something hot-looking. Again, making every single character super-deep and elaborate is unpractical, limiting, complicated, pointless for my purposes, and simply not fun, unless I'm trying to make some sort of amazing novel (and I don't).



> Even when ignoring others, building a character with your own heart is far from hurtful. It would let you see again, see value in such creations, create a bond with a piece of yourself. This deep, developing feeling is, actually, the exact opposite of the brief, sexual satisfaction everyone knows, but hates.


That's the thing - I'm already building a character with my own heart, and same is true for majority of other artists. If anything, you're asking people to draw characters with your definition of heart and imposing your personal standards on other people's visions in process, and that's probably why I have so much problem with this rant.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> This gave me a nice, much-needed insight. From this position I can't really ask for anything "ideal". What I imagine to be fun, would be a situation where I, interested in a person's character, visit their page and find something to actually *read*. In such cases I'm generally greeted by stacks of porn. Nothing really fulfilling.



Ignoring the chaff, you're getting a lot of people either not reading or making bold assumptions given the lack of an ideal case. There's a problem statement, a goal, and no mechanism to get there - i.e. no solution. Without that, regardless of what you think you've communicated, you've failed to give a direct "I'd like more of this" so it's really not clear what you want. If we boil it down to the single bullet it's "draw less porn."

Now, I will concede I find a lot of the porn art boring, but it's for a reason I think you're trying to get at but don't realize. Fundamentally, art shouldn't have to have a wall of text to get. The goal of art is to "show" not "tell" and it should stand on its own if its good. What a lot of art, this is not specific to porn, does is fails to tell an interesting "story." I'm not talking a novel, I mean in the context of the picture or pictures. Let's say you only have porn to go through on someone's Fursona. That can tell a story. Look at the context of the pictures. You can start with "who are they with?" Well, it's always dudes and they're a dude so they're gay. Alright, are they topping or bottoming or switch? Topping. And aggressive while doing so. Looks like they've got a dominant personality. Alright, what's their body? Athletic build? Okay, so they're a dominant athlete, they're probably one to push to win. What's in the background? A gym locker a lot. Okay, so they like to work out. But hey, that's hockey gear, goalie pads. So I know they're a dominant, aggressive person who plays goalie on a team and likes to get it on in the locker room. We can probably conclude they live by their own rules too. Oh, hey, what's this - that's a nasty scar on his right butt cheek. Did he get that in a freak hockey accident? Some nude cooking? Well, that's interesting.

The boring porn is just two random characters going at it with no other context. That's easy to draw, but doesn't win awards.

So, literally none of that paragraph was explained in text, but you can build a character around them. Does everyone do this? No. But "I wish people added more interest to their porn" isn't much of an opinion. A post of "y'all need to tell more of a story in your posts" is... well, a "no shit" at best. So ask yourself - is the story lacking or are you not looking for it?


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## dragonofdestiny (Jun 18, 2020)

Skittles said:


> I feel this thread is deteriorating. Some good points were made. I agree that tagging should be made better. Now. ABANDON SHIP!



Precisely this. I was happy to see that a piece of my opinions had gathered some attention, with arguments that weren't going absolutely nowhere. What we're doing now *is. *I'll leave all of this now as it is, since neither I nor anyone else will change anyone's mindset. I know it's weak and pitiful to leave an argument unanswered, but it's what I'm going to do since we won't reach any logical conclusion either way.

Thanks for everyone's contributions again. I feel like being able to express my opinions (and gain some new ones) made my head clearer. Shame I made myself and my viewpoint look bad through those elongated arguments, but it's not without my fault.

Hope Fluffy and, well, everybody else has a nice day; I definitely will ^^


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Oh, hey, what's this - that's a nasty scar on his right butt cheek.


That's nasty. Why you being so nasty? We were having a good conversation and you had to get all nasty. Stop being nasty!


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> God, I hope that I'm not one of the "arrogant" ones.


Gotta have a thick fur when hurling accusations and strong words at people around you. I'm not implying that you are the arrogant one, but you should keep that in mind when you call someone a prude and write it in a bold font for everyone to see.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Gotta have a thick fur when hurling accusations and strong words at people around you. I'm not implying that you are the arrogant one, but you should keep that in mind when you call someone a prude and write it in a bold font for everyone to see.


I was a little ticked off then, I'm sorry.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

dragonofdestiny said:


> Precisely this. I was happy to see that a piece of my opinions had gathered some attention, with arguments that weren't going absolutely nowhere. What we're doing now *is. *I'll leave all of this now as it is, since neither I nor anyone else will change anyone's mindset. I know it's weak and pitiful to leave an argument unanswered, but it's what I'm going to do since we won't reach any logical conclusion either way.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's contributions again. I feel like being able to express my opinions (and gain some new ones) made my head clearer. Shame I made myself and my viewpoint look bad through those elongated arguments, but it's not without my fault.
> 
> Hope Fluffy and, well, everybody else has a nice day; I definitely will ^^


Kudos for you to say something like this after people made such a dumpster fire out of it, it takes a lot to step back and thank everyone, despite all that has been said. I hope you will continue to express your opinions and maybe even rethink some of them if people bring up valid arguments.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Gotta have a thick fur when hurling accusations and strong words at people around you. I'm not implying that you are the arrogant one, but you should keep that in mind when you call someone a prude and write it in a bold font for everyone to see.


They are being a prude tho


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> Gotta have a thick fur when hurling accusations and strong words at people around you. I'm not implying that you are the arrogant one, but you should keep that in mind when you call someone a prude and write it in a bold font for everyone to see.


Why'd you gotta go and be like that? We were going to end it on a positive note. :/


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Why'd you gotta go and be like that? We were going to end it on a positive note. :/


i don't know, i feel like someone respectfully critiquing someone's behavior and that person apologizing for it is pretty positive. just me though.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> i don't know, i feel like someone respectfully critiquing someone's behavior and that person apologizing for it is pretty positive. just me though.


Yeah, but the conversation was ending and was a "new" thing. It gives me "last word" vibes.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Yeah, but the conversation was ending and was a "new" thing. It gives me "last word" vibes.


Time to shitpost baby


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Time to shitpost baby


Like I wasn't already!?


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## Deleted member 132067 (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Yeah, but the conversation was ending and was a "new" thing. It gives me "last word" vibes.


What does that make of you, seeing that you now have the last word? ┌༼ σ ‸ σ ༽┐


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> What does that make of you, seeing that you now have the last word? ┌༼ σ ‸ σ ༽┐


The winner. ;3


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## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You have every right to say whatever you want but people also have the right to tell you how dumb and whiney this is. Just being honest fam.



You lost your temper and jumped the gun again.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> You lost your temper and jumped the gun again.


I don't even know you LOL


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> You lost your temper and jumped the gun again.


The sex-adverse attitudes that the west has is worth getting angry over.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Yeah, but the conversation was ending and was a "new" thing. It gives me "last word" vibes.


to be fair there was a much better post you could have chose to reply to with that sort of argument. but sure i see what you mean.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> The sex-adverse attitudes that the west has is worth getting angry over.


Agreed, I think a lot of it misguided "keep it away from children" taken too far. As long as it's between consenting adults and done in privacy then who cares?


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Time to shitpost baby


It reminds me of the old times.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I don't even know you LOL


Last I checked you don't know many of the forum dwellers IRL either. 



FluffyShutterbug said:


> The sex-adverse attitudes that the west has is worth getting angry over.


They were expressing a harmless vent. They didn't even demand that everyone remove their NSFW characters. You can disagree with them, but they weren't even being malicious about it.


----------



## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Agreed, I think a lot of it misguided "keep it away from children" taken too far. As long as it's between consenting adults and done in privacy then who cares?


It's not even that. It's more like the sense of shame that they try to impart on it.


----------



## Sarachaga (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Agreed, I think a lot of it misguided "keep it away from children" taken too far. As long as it's between consenting adults and done in privacy then who cares?


Yup.
I think there's nothing wrong with disliking oversexualized things tho.
What's wrong is pushing these sorts of views on people and trying to shame them for it.


----------



## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> Last I checked you don't know many of the forum dwellers IRL either.
> 
> 
> They were expressing a harmless vent. They didn't even demand that everyone remove their NSFW characters. You can disagree with them, but they weren't even being malicious about it.


They weren't being malicious, no. But they did have a "holier than thou" demeanor that rubbed me the wrong way.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> to be fair there was a much better post you could have chose to reply to with that sort of argument. but sure i see what you mean.


No, it was made in reference to the fact that OP said to "agree to disagree" and the comment in question was made right after it making it. But what's done is done. I suppose.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> They weren't being malicious, no. But they did have a "holier than thou" demeanor that rubbed me the wrong way.


I mean yeah, I can agree on this. Their point was solid... Execution... Not so much.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> They weren't being malicious, no. But they did have a "holier than thou" demeanor that rubbed me the wrong way.


Hence why I said 'you jumped the gun'. People like to assume their intentions and get themselves worked up over nothing.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> Hence why I said 'you jumped the gun'. People like to assume their intentions and get themselves worked up over nothing.


That's just human nature though, everyone does it at some point.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> That's just human nature though, everyone does it at some point.


_Some_ more _frequently _than others. Which is why I spoke up.


----------



## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> Hence why I said 'you jumped the gun'. People like to assume their intentions and get themselves worked up over nothing.


They directly said that NSFW pursuits were inherently a waste of one's time and creativity.


----------



## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> No, it was made in reference to the fact that OP said to "agree to disagree" and the comment in question was made right after it making it. But what's done is done. I suppose.


they're literally still being called names and shamed for their opinion even after they dropped it in a super respectful way, lol. whereas you chose to go after the one post where someone else was criticized once. just saying it's kind of weird.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> _Some_ more _frequently _than others. Which is why I spoke up.


Of this I can agree with you on.


----------



## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> they're literally still being called names and shamed for their opinion even after they dropped it in a super respectful way, lol. whereas you chose to go after the one post where someone else was criticized once. just saying it's kind of weird.


I don't remember calling anyone names or nor I  don't think anyone called the op names?


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> they're literally still being called names and shamed for their opinion even after they dropped it in a super respectful way, lol. whereas you chose to go after the one post where someone else was criticized once. just saying it's kind of weird.


You're making a lot of out of nothing and no one is name calling.


----------



## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

Yah, we're at a dead end, here.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Yah, we're at a dead end, here.


Again! X3


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Thread's dead, baby. Threads dead.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> I don't remember calling anyone names or nor I  don't think anyone called the op names?


I don't remember any name calling but I do remember the OP having rather nasty opinion towards NSFW and writers who out their own characters in their stories. I believe if I where to paraphrase he Essentially said; "No writer worth worth their salt would put their personal avatar, it would end up being a Marty Stu."


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## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> They directly said that NSFW pursuits were inherently a waste of one's time and creativity.


They personally feel that it's wasted. Yea. It's their opinion. It doesn't mean they're calling you a waste of skin. It's not malicious. 
And if you follow it up with the previous statement about power, they're simply meaning that solely focusing on the aesthetic of the character can make it lack in other areas. Kind of like a videogame that looks cool, but has shitty mechanics, story and gameplay.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

F in chat for the thread.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> I don't remember calling anyone names or nor I  don't think anyone called the op names?





redhusky said:


> You're making a lot of out of nothing and no one is name calling.


i don't want to speak for the OP, but i know i'd be pretty annoyed if i was getting ganged up on and called a prude over an opinion even after i dropped it. it may not be a lot for you, cause you're not the one being dog-piled on. it's just not a good look for the community at all especially seeing as how this person is new to the forum.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> i don't want to speak for the OP, but i know i'd be pretty annoyed if i was getting ganged up on and called a prude over an opinion even after i dropped it. it may not be a lot for you, cause you're not the one being dog-piled on. it's just not a good look for the community at all especially seeing as how this person is new to the forum.


Or, now this is just a thought, they joined to cause a stir.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> i don't want to speak for the OP, but i know i'd be pretty annoyed if i was getting ganged up on and called a prude over an opinion even after i dropped it. it may not be a lot for you, cause you're not the one being dog-piled on. it's just not a good look for the community at all especially seeing as how this person is new to the forum.


Well, rest assure no one ganged up on OP and spicy posts get spicy replies.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Or, now this is just a thought, they joined to cause a stir.


doubtful. they wouldn't put as much effort as they did nor would they have been as respectful as they have been if they wanted to bother anybody. they said some things in ways they shouldn't have, but i doubt they had any ill will.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Or, now this is just a thought, they joined to cause a stir.


Not saying OP is but it wouldn't be the first time a troll made a thread to stir shit. Again I'm not saying OP is a troll, I'm just saying it has happened in the past and is always a possibility.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Or, now this is just a thought, they joined to cause a stir.


What is this crazy talk!? Speak sense, man!


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## Sarachaga (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Or, now this is just a thought, they joined to cause a stir.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we 

I think, seeing as the last post of the op was rather nice that it's not the case.


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## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

If expressing your opinion in the forum (with the clear indication at this is a RANT) is a crime, then everyone deactivate their accounts now. XD


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Sarachaga said:


> Let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we
> 
> I think, seeing as the last post of the op was rather nice that it's not the case.


It was reverses psychology. Insidious, isn't it!?


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

Sarachaga said:


> Let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we
> 
> I think, seeing as the last post of the op was rather nice that it's not the case.


You can't just start a callout post and then be like oop sorry everything is fine. It's easy to act nice after you've gotten the reaction you wanted out of someone.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> If expressing your opinion in the forum (with the clear indication at this is a RANT) is a crime, then everyone deactivate their accounts now. XD


Freedom of speech isn't consequence-free. If somebody says something that ticks others off, they're within their rights to make a rebuttal.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You can't just start a callout post and then be like oop sorry everything is fine. It's easy to act nice after you've gotten the reaction you wanted out of someone.


Sure you can!


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> i don't want to speak for the OP, but i know i'd be pretty annoyed if i was getting ganged up on and called a prude over an opinion even after i dropped it. it may not be a lot for you, cause you're not the one being dog-piled on. it's just not a good look for the community at all especially seeing as how this person is new to the forum.


I don't understand? The op was basically was telling us how we should use our characters.


ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Not saying OP is but it wouldn't be the first time a troll made a thread to stir shit. Again I'm not saying OP is a troll, I'm just saying it has happened in the past and is always a possibility.





Ovi the Dragon said:


> Or, now this is just a thought, they joined to cause a stir.


Yea you should have seen 2017 - 2018 faf. lots of trolls making accounts just to cause trouble
According to your account you had have that account ever since 2017 so idk.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Well, rest assure no one ganged up on OP and spicy posts get spicy replies.


well i just think it's a shame that this is the first experience this person had on the forum. really bothered me. they handled the entire thing really respectfully (even if their word choice was poor at times) and they got nothing but belittled in return.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> I don't understand? The op was basically was telling us how we should use our characters.
> 
> 
> Yea you should have seen 2017 - 2018 faf. lots of trolls making accounts just to cause trouble
> According to your account you had have that account ever since 2017 so idk.


Oh yeah trust me I remember. *Vietnam War Style Flashbacks*.


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## Sarachaga (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You can't just start a callout post and then be like oop sorry everything is fine. It's easy to act nice after you've gotten the reaction you wanted out of someone.


I get you there but it doesn't mean there's an evil agenda behind it.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> I don't understand? The op was basically was telling us how we should use our characters.
> 
> 
> Yea you should have seen 2017 - 2018 faf. lots of trolls making accounts just to cause trouble
> According to your account you had have that account ever since 2017 so idk.





ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Oh yeah trust me I remember. *Vietnam War Style Flashbacks*.


Was it truly that bad? I've been accused of being a 'Trump supporter alt account" already since being active again and "that time" was brought up.


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You can't just start a callout post and then be like oop sorry everything is fine. It's easy to act nice after you've gotten the reaction you wanted out of someone.





Sarachaga said:


> I get you there but it doesn't mean there's an evil agenda behind it.


Its very hard to tell what someone's intentions are sometimes.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> Its very hard to tell what someone's intentions are sometimes.


Either way. They made a post, people reacted. This is a forum, not a bulletin board.


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Was it truly that bad? I've been accused of being a 'Trump supporter alt account" already since being active again and "that time" was brought up.



Well yes.  The shit posting was best back then I honestly had fun. But anyways
The forums only had one staff member active and it was getting tiresome for him dealing with all the dumpster fires and stuff.


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## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Freedom of speech isn't consequence-free. If somebody says something that ticks others off, they're within their rights to make a rebuttal.


There's free speech and then theres people here being paranoid and attempting to derail a thread because they feel personally attacked by it.  If you read some of the other comments you'll see what I mean.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> There's free speech and then theres people here being paranoid and attempting to derail a thread because they feel personally attacked by it.  If you read some of the other comments you'll see what I mean.


I never attempted to derail it. I only posted rebuttals to each of the points that the OP made until they left.


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## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> I never attempted to derail it. I only posted rebuttals to each of the points that the OP made until they left.


I never accused you of derailing it. See what I mean?! XD 
You need to chill.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Was it truly that bad? I've been accused of being a 'Trump supporter alt account" already since being active again and "that time" was brought up.


Sit down son let me tell you a tale: So there we were faf, 2017, the World was in different place and we had a simple way of life here in our home... Then the Charlie came from the threads. Soon we where surrounded on all sides by hate, malice, and violence. It was a time that tested the metal of us wee furred, scaled,and feathered lads lasses.

A lot of us didn't make it... Had to watch close friends fall at low intelligence call-out posts, anti furry copy pastas, stereotypes, and general ignorance. The fighting was long but soon in 2018 we saw the rise of a new threat... Anti-Furry Subreddits. We weren't prepared for the onslaught that awaited us and more lives where lost.

I can still here the screams and cries from the community... It keeps me up at night kid... It keeps me up at night.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

this thread obviously touched a nerve with various people (maybe cause it hit the nail on the head) and OP got treated unfairly because of it. that's just how i see it. there was no constructive debate here.

really friendly and inclusive, guys.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> I never accused you of derailing it. See what I mean?! XD
> You need to chill.


Oh-kay. I"m outta here. I'm not responding to any further posts in this thread.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> this thread obviously touched a nerve with various people (maybe cause it hit the nail on the head) and OP got treated unfairly because of it. that's just how i see it. there was no constructive debate here.
> 
> really friendly and inclusive, guys.


I wouldn't say hit the nail on the head OP did have some good points but some where just purely false.


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> I never accused you of derailing it. See what I mean?! XD
> You need to chill.


This is a legit bizarre reply. o_o;


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> This is a legit bizarre reply. o_o;


Indeed... Getting... War... Flashbacks.

THERE HIDING IN THE THREADS!!!!


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Sit down son let me tell you a tale: So there we were faf, 2017, the World was in different place and we had a simple way of life here in our home... Then the Charlie came from the threads. Soon we where surrounded on all sides by hate, malice, and violence. It was a time that tested the metal of us wee furred, scaled,and feathered lads lasses.
> 
> A lot of us didn't make it... Had to watch close friends fall at low intelligence call-out posts, anti furry copy pastas, stereotypes, and general ignorance. The fighting was long but soon in 2018 we saw the rise of a new threat... Anti-Furry Subreddits. We weren't prepared for the onslaught that awaited us and more lives where lost.
> 
> I can still here the screams and cries from the community... It keeps me up at night kid... It keeps me up at night.


How terrifying! I can't wait for the movie version!


----------



## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> This is a legit bizarre reply. o_o;


Honestly that reply kinda put me off also.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> How terrifying! I can't wait for the movie version!


Yes and it will star Leonardo Defaprio.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> This is a legit bizarre reply. o_o;





Lexiand said:


> Honestly that reply kinda put me off also.



They're jumping in on replies that weren't meant for them, which is fine, but they don't even read all of what I'm saying.
Kind of like OPs thread. XD

Edit: They jump into a conversation without reading it and then assume things and get mad. I re-wrote this a couple of times and forgot to include some words.


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> How terrifying! I can't wait for the movie version!





ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Yes and it will star Leonardo Defaprio.


I made like memes of funny stuff that went on those years and most people thought theose memes were funnyback then I need to make more of those.


----------



## Sarachaga (Jun 18, 2020)

Can we get an admin to close this? At this point we're just beating a dead horse that has been resurrected a few times


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Sarachaga said:


> Can we get an admin to close this? At this point we're just beating a dead horse that has been resurrected a few times


Agreed.


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## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

TyraWadman said:


> They're jumping in on replies that weren't meant for them, which is fine, but they don't even read all of what I'm saying.
> Kind of like OPs thread. XD


Because this is a open discussion.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

I think I deserve an Oscar for my performance of that dramatic telling of the 2 year FaF War.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> I think I deserve an Oscar for my performance of that dramatic telling of the 2 year FaF War.


It's mine now.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> It's mine now.


How dare you! I sue you for Royalties!


----------



## Lexiand (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> I think I deserve an Oscar for my performance of that dramatic telling of the 2 year FaF War.


You missed one thing. And I remember this so much....


*THE KOREAN SPAM BOTS!*


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> You missed one thing. And I remember this so much....
> 
> 
> *THE KOREAN SPAM BOTS!*


Not so much forgot out of a bad memory it was me forcing my self to forget... So many bots...


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> How dare you! I sue you for Royalties!


NOT IF YOU'RE DEAD! *ATTACKS*


Lexiand said:


> You missed one thing. And I remember this so much....
> 
> 
> *THE KOREAN SPAM BOTS!*


It's get more horrible with each retelling!


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> NOT IF YOU'RE DEAD! *ATTACKS*
> 
> It's get more horrible with each retelling!


Za Warudo!


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

Lexiand said:


> Because this is a open discussion.


Like I said, discussion is fine- but if you're not going to read ALL of what I'm saying then how is that a discussion? How can I possibly discuss a topic when someone is constantly assuming the direction I'm trying to go in, when I've literally spelled it out for them in the first place? XD


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## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Za Warudo!


Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru!


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru!


Nani!


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Nani!


I will spend MY royalties in your honor.


TyraWadman said:


> Like I said, discussion is fine- but if you're not going to read ALL of what I'm saying then how is that a discussion? How can I possibly discuss a topic when someone is constantly assuming the direction I'm trying to go in, when I've literally spelled it out for them in the first place? XD


We are reading your posts just fine. You're just acting funny.


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## Frank Gulotta (Jun 18, 2020)

So many panties in a twist in the porn thread, heehee


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> I will spend MY royalties in your honor.
> 
> We are reading your posts just fine. You're just acting funny.


Yeah just a bunch of furs just being cringey and having fun. And in the state of the world right now is it really bad to have both?


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> So many panties in a twist in the porn thread, heehee


*Ba Dum Tiss*


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> So many panties in a twist in the porn thread, heehee


HAWT.


ThefriendlyFurry said:


> Yeah just a bunch of furs just being cringey and having fun. And in the state of the world right now is it really bad to have both?


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Jun 18, 2020)

redhusky said:


> HAWT.


I'm not complaining!


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I'm not complaining!


And that's why we love you.


----------



## ConorHyena (Jun 18, 2020)

> really friendly and inclusive, guys.



I don't pretend to be either.


----------



## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> I don't pretend to be either.


step in the right direction.


----------



## ConorHyena (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> step in the right direction.



Also means I can be rude to newbies in their first (shit-stirring) thread.


----------



## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Also means I can be rude to newbies in their first (shit-stirring) thread.


damn, had high hopes.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 18, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Also means I can be rude to newbies in their first (shit-stirring) thread.


A good way for noobs to cut their teeth, yes?


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## ConorHyena (Jun 18, 2020)

Shit stirring on faf is fun. Now, if someone would only manage to maneuver Hitler into the thread, then we'd have a shitshow worthy of remembrance.


----------



## KD142000 (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> oh, trust me, i know. the kind of crowds these popular neon femboy sonas attract are typically socially inept weirdos anyway. so while i believe i really shouldn't care, it still rests on my conscious at times, regardless. i don't envy them for their fanbase, but moreso the artists they commission and how often they do so (seriously though, a lot of these people always have a never ending "waiting on" list that's legitimately never empty, and most of the artists they have on them charge hundreds for their art. i don't know where they get their money from, not that it's any of my business, but.)
> 
> what's crazier is that the few people i've talked to who have those type of characters and those kind of galleries describe their commissioning frequency as an addiction, and are always having financial trouble because of it. kinda sad, really.
> 
> anyways, referring to your last line, while i don't write nearly as often as i used to, i typically keep my work in textpads because i know if i were to upload them anywhere public that nobody would care enough to read them, and would potentially even cause people to unwatch me. so it's just not worth it to me, so i never share anything i write unless people ask me about it.


Personally, I'd read them. It'd really flesh out your character. You'd be surprised at how many people look for that kind of extra detail.
I'll have to find out more about your character, hun.

Yeah, I've seen that, too. Art addiction, I mean. Sometimes you find people that have small galleries that tell a lot more of a story than those with larger ones. Like yours, for example. I get a lot more out of that than I would from someone with hundreds of art pieces.

My method of fleshing out my character is through my comic project, but I might write up a few things on the side, too.


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## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

> Redacted by staff


He did it, the crazy SOB did it.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

I'm fucking dying LOL


----------



## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

Well this thread blew up while I was asleep didn't it? How rude of you to bring in the drama while I'm not around...

Anyway I'll put my two cents on the table.

1. Half of the responses are from people who are offended by a post that they seem to not fully understand, and they should probably re-read the original post as well as what the original poster said in replies BEFORE getting their soggy panties in a twist.

2. Yes, the OP could have worded things better in their original post but they've been more than understanding in responses and have even admitted to forgetting or not thinking of something and thanking members for opening their eyes. Can we not act like the OP is just some opinion-shoving unacceptable creep? We're better than this, or at least we should be. Most of us are adults, and those of us who aren't shouldn't be here anyway.

3. Also yes, as said in my previous thread sexual posts exist where they should not be. (Exhibit A - Warning NSFW CONTENT DON'T CLICK KIDDIES: www.furaffinity.net: After Hours! by Lewdacris) Literal sexual acts in General under SFW that I saw yesterday while browsing. One of quite a few - all of which I clearly wasn't looking for, as it was random browsing via FA's browse function. *(edit: it has been edited to adult as of 6/18/2020 10:44 pm)*

I don't blame ANYONE for wanting more SFW content, or better organized content, but that wasn't the point of the thread.

The OP wants to see less sex and more creativity, because the OP is a writer, and while he may have been blunt about it anyone who writes or creates anything outside of NSFW to a large degree can understand this hunger to meet people who put in the same effort that you do.

Being offended by a creative desire is just as bad as someone being offended by sex, which is not what I got out of the OP's posts at all. The OP wasn't sex shaming anyone. They just wanted to see more depth, and there's nothing wrong with that opinion. The only ones being disagreeable in this thread are those getting passive aggressive at the OP after they explained themselves further and further and displayed an agreeable attitude and understanding atmosphere about it all.


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## Rayd (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> stuff.


it's a shame that you compiled all the reasonable points people have made throughout this thread into one post and the people who really need to read it won't take it seriously.


----------



## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> it's a shame that you compiled all the reasonable points people have made throughout this thread into one post and the people who really need to read it won't take it seriously.



It's alright. This post may feature them, but it isn't about them or there for them. It's about the thread, and is there for those who need to see it and are ready to listen. I'm not offended by the offended, lol.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> it's a shame that you compiled all the reasonable points people have made throughout this thread into one post and the people who really need to read it won't take it seriously.


It also doesn't help that the people they're trying to convince get blocked before they can read it lol


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 18, 2020)

Actually, there's one more thing. The OP has been edited to soften and clarify the language a few times. This thread started with "Stop Oversexualizing Your Characters"  with no further addendum. And the language in the post itself was far more, uh, aggressive.

Edit: I think? Maybe. There was definitely not the addendum in the title.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jun 18, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Actually, there's one more thing. The OP has been edited to soften and clarify the language a few times. This thread started with "Stop Oversexualizing Your Characters"  with no further addendum. And the language in the post itself was far more, uh, aggressive.
> 
> Edit: I think? Maybe. There was definitely not the addendum in the title.



It doesn't say the main post was edited and the title was the same for when I jumped in the conversation. Even if it wasn't, I'm not going to get steamed over a brief title without reading the argument first. *shrug*


----------



## Sir Thaikard (Jun 18, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> this thread reeks of arrogancy and self-righteousness from both sides.



The only thing left to do is shitpost even harder in hopes that it cancels things out.


----------



## Sir Thaikard (Jun 18, 2020)

> Redacted by staff



I am uncomfortably aroused. Please cease and desist.


----------



## ThefriendlyFurry (Jun 18, 2020)

Sir Thaikard said:


> I am uncomfortably aroused. Please cease and desist.


Niene Heit


----------



## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

Sir Thaikard said:


> I am uncomfortably aroused. Please cease and desist.



Setz dich und bleib.
Wir haben mehr zu bieten.

(Apologies to any German furs, and really everyone lol)


----------



## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 18, 2020)

Wow, this thread did explode while I was gone, and a lot of people got into some personal drama, but I'm going to highlight on what @Raever and @Ziggy Schlacht brought up about "more storytelling (or showing) in art."

Here's a recent landscape picture I did that I'm honestly proud of because it took a lot of time and I feel it sets itself up for some storytelling:
www.furaffinity.net: Into The Valley by DarkHorseArtie89

Has a nice little story that could set the people up to ask questions, and it shows off my ability to draw something other than characters. However, guess how much attention it's getting on FA? And DA is even worse despite having a more general art scene.

Meanwhile, here's what's been my most popular picture that has completely overwhelmed all my others despite being poorer quality in my eyes and just being generic fetish fan art (FYI Fat Art if you don't like it, don't look):
www.furaffinity.net: Cozy Satisfaction by DarkHorseArtie89

 No story, no substance, no meaning. It's just a picture of Krystal from the Starfox games _but fat! _The second most popular pic is also just fetishy fan art of Undyne from Undertale. In other words, nobody gives a shit about storytelling, they just want evil donuts, fat versions of video game characters, and Teddy Roosevelt punching a bear. Sure, you could argue that derived art requires some knowledge of the subjects being presented, but whenever I draw something that was made by someone else or isn't totally from my imagination and experiences, am I really "telling a story" or am I just mindlessly pandering to the lowest common denominator?

The stuff  I actually want to explore and the means to develop my characters beyond eye candy never gets much attention, but the mindless mass-produced fan art and fetish art is apparently all I'm good for as far as people are concerned.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> The OP wants to see less sex and more creativity, because the OP is a writer, and while he may have been blunt about it anyone who writes or creates anything outside of NSFW to a large degree can understand this hunger to meet people who put in the same effort that you do.


I’m not in any way trying to suggest that anyone is wrong in wanting more SFW writing, but I have to admit this made me giggle. My husband is a furry writer, and used to be reasonably prolific. He does quite well with character depth and characterization. 

And a large portion of his writing is smut.

So I’m just amused. Not in an insulting way, just... amused at the juxtaposition it created in my mind.


----------



## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> In other words, nobody gives a shit about storytelling,



I think this is a cynical view.
People care about story telling and enjoy it, but everyone (or at least a majority of the population of earth) gets horny. So of course NSFW will get more views, as people will often happily stumble into story telling pieces - but when horny they actively look for the nsfw ones.

Doesn't mean no one gives a shit.


----------



## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> And a large portion of his writing is smut.



Smut can be creative. 

Jokes aside, I see where the amusement comes from. As said above, nsfw gets more attention due to people being on the hunt for material to, uh, use. But sfw is just as valuable outside of that. Just not as often hunted for with such determination lol.


----------



## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 18, 2020)

Raever said:


> I think this is a cynical view.



Don't you mean "realistic" view?

If storytelling was seriously that important, then why have all the biggest movies up until the pandemic have been nothing but mindless superhero movies?

If storytelling was important, then why is Literay Fiction "100,000 words where nothing happens" but somehow Martin's oversized fantasy books are considered the good stuff?

Thing is, people don't want "storytelling", because more often than not, they just want mindless escapism. It's pretty much the only reason why fan art and NSFW are as big as they are in the online art community (the fine art community is um, very different).


----------



## Zerzehn (Jun 18, 2020)

My god, this shit's been going for 12 pages...


----------



## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 18, 2020)

Zerzehn said:


> My god, this shit's been going for 12 pages...



What did you expect the old "separating art from entertainment" argument to be like anyway?


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 18, 2020)

The conversation was like 12 posts. The shit posting is the 12 pages.

Unfortunately, the OP managed to take a totally neutral and inoffensive comment - could y'all try to work on telling more of a story with your art - and cloaked it in way too high minded a purpose to get anywhere.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Jun 18, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> If storytelling was important, then why is Literay Fiction "100,000 words where nothing happens" but somehow Martin's oversized fantasy books are considered the good stuff?


Literary fiction and speculative fiction are both storytelling; neither is inherently superior to the other. If people enjoy the fantastic, let them - it’s better that people read and enjoy it than that they don’t read at all.

Incidentally, on the FA account of the webcomic husband and I did until my health went to shit, stories were fairly consistently doing better (in terms of views) than their illustrations, and comic pages (also a form of storytelling) better than isolated illustrations, largely regardless of rating. People are absolutely attracted to storytelling. The trick is to get them interested in _your_ story. 

(Let’s say it takes a minute to look at an image submission. This is obviously longer than most people are likely to spend. How large a fraction of a story can you read in a minute? For a completely arbitrary number, let’s say the average story takes 20 minutes to read. That would mean 20 image submissions get viewed in the same time frame as a single story. This time investment is grounds enough for a lot of people to be choosy about their reading.)


----------



## Raever (Jun 18, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> Literary fiction and speculative fiction are both storytelling; neither is inherently superior to the other. If people enjoy the fantastic, let them - it’s better that people read and enjoy it than that they don’t read at all.
> 
> Incidentally, on the FA account of the webcomic husband and I did until my health went to shit, stories were fairly consistently doing better (in terms of views) than their illustrations, and comic pages (also a form of storytelling) better than isolated illustrations, largely regardless of rating. People are absolutely attracted to storytelling. The trick is to get them interested in _your_ story.
> 
> (Let’s say it takes a minute to look at an image submission. This is obviously longer than most people are likely to spend. How large a fraction of a story can you read in a minute? For a completely arbitrary number, let’s say the average story takes 20 minutes to read. That would mean 20 image submissions get viewed in the same time frame as a single story. This time investment is grounds enough for a lot of people to be choosy about their reading.)



You said this far better than I could. 

Though as a biased comic nerd I must say...



BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> mindless superhero movies?



I am offended by the highest degrees good madam!
(clearly I'm kidding here...)

But honestly, not all superhero movies are mindless. In fact a majority of them can hit very hard (in a good way).
I feel like the blunt force of your words are pretty telling as to why my statement of "cynical" instead of "realistic" seems accurate.

That said, 



Ziggy Schlacht said:


> The conversation was like 12 posts. The shit posting is the 12 pages.



I think a lot of people (save for maybe four) had really good input and opinions to share. 
Just because someone disagrees, and writes about why, doesn't make it shit posting. :/


----------



## Toasty9399 (Jun 18, 2020)

Sir Thaikard said:


> It's not my fault that almost all the characters I write are sex gods and goddesses.
> 
> If that's what people want, that's what they get.


lmao


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Jun 18, 2020)

Maelstrom is my character, one I've had and developed through lots and lots of roleplay with others over the years.  

Any "intimate" stuff is story-based.  It's not the central focus of anything, but it's "a thing" that happens in life so it would be unrealistic to expect characters, even animal characters, not to take part in that kind of activity.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 19, 2020)

Unless your fetish is with giants, my characters are not very sexualized. Heck, I don't even know if you could call me a furry. I don't fursuit and I don't yiff, I'm more in the Sonic fandom and a lot of my characters have plenty of lore, (my main villains are a family of super-criminals that basically live all over Europe and the America's and sort of started two bigass wars). I've recently written a story where a witch turns giant and it's been going for about, 11 full chapters.

Artwork Gallery for Jaredthefox92 -- Fur Affinity [dot] net

Yeah, there's kink themes in it, because Amanda is EVIL. Unless your kink is falling on objects or crushing cars you don't like the color of, it's really not sexualized unless you happen to have said fetish.

Artwork Gallery for Jaredthefox92 -- Fur Affinity [dot] net

Then again, it depends on if you would call me a furry by definition technically, or if you presume I wear a fursuit, attend cons for money, and am into yiff. None of those I am. I would agree that there should be less sexualized art, but sadly that would mean that a lot of humanity right now would stop doing far worse stuff, such as rioting and looting, and establishing a tiny silly 'nation' and beg for vegan products. Anyways, the point is humanity is stupid, so yes I agree that there should be less $$$ involved artwork, but hey I am not a liberal college student who couldn't try to get a degree in something practical like draftsmanship.


----------



## Stray Cat Terry (Jun 19, 2020)

Disagreement and agreement.


Disagreement

The OP has their points, but what it gives me is the same vibe as Korean government.

Ex:


Spoiler



Idea:
Some thoughtless people use metal balls on airsoft to harm and destroy stuffs, so we have to restrict airsoft guns to have a power so low that it is no longer a gun.

Result:
Such law-limited airsoft guns can't be run on sports anymore. Plus, the harassers still shoot people and animals with them, illegally modified internals, and shoots metal balls. What has improved....?



So, what I'm saying is:

Instead of telling NSFW users not-to, I think telling those people (who manage to violate security and end up getting mentally impacted themselves) not to go beyond borders.

And plus, personally, haters hating what they hate(for any reason) is normal. Not only the furries, other fandoms and stuffs get hatred every day. And we all know that it never kills the fandom or anything. Still, up to these days, various fandoms manage to get their newcomers and ultimately fueling each fandoms go on. FAF isn't an exception.

As long as we don't violate laws and rules, everything is fine. What makes these look discusting is that people just get curious and look what's not allowed for them. Rules are there for a reason.

Other than this, if someone hates something, that's natural, what's the matter? Do we become furries to get acknowledged by all mankind? I guess not. Sometimes, we have to comprehend, that nothing can be loved by everyone.


Agreement & how I do

But I think I get what you feel, 1) you don't want your fellow furries gather such hate and potentially having the view inflicted on you. Or maybe 2) it's because you actually care and this is how you express it. I thank you for the care.

However, 1) that's what you have to carry on along if you decide to be a part of anything. No matter it's online communities or real life companies, etc. If the reason that makes you stay here worths more than such a downside, you have to admit it and always get prepared for that. If not, in my case, I just leave. (I'm not forcing you to leave, just think in a different way like I told you, please)

And if it's 2), there's no need to worry since everyone have their own reasons to act as they want, and those reasons alone makes it all about why they're still standing despite all the hates and disgusts coming from everywhere. And again, as 1), they are likely already cool about this and they are most likely enjoying what they do.

Hope this can relieve your worries :3


----------



## redhusky (Jun 19, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> The conversation was like 12 posts. The shit posting is the 12 pages.
> 
> Unfortunately, the OP managed to take a totally neutral and inoffensive comment - could y'all try to work on telling more of a story with your art - and cloaked it in way too high minded a purpose to get anywhere.


This. If you are going to tell other people their business make sure to do so respectfully. Remember children, It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it.


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## redhusky (Jun 19, 2020)

Zerzehn said:


> My god, this shit's been going for 12 pages...


I know, isn't it wonderful!?


----------



## Raever (Jun 19, 2020)

redhusky said:


> I know, isn't it wonderful!?



I've said my peace so all I can say at this point is...popcorn time!


----------



## redhusky (Jun 19, 2020)

Raever said:


> I've said my peace so all I can say at this point is...popcorn time!


Let us bring peace from what you said by reading this piece of information. 
www.merriam-webster.com: Do You 'Say Your Piece' or 'Say Your Peace'?


----------



## Raever (Jun 19, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Let us bring peace from what you said by reading this piece of information.
> www.merriam-webster.com: Do You 'Say Your Piece' or 'Say Your Peace'?



Whatever ~


----------



## redhusky (Jun 19, 2020)

Raever said:


> Whatever ~


tenor.com: Fart Whatever GIF - Fart Whatever Bear - Discover & Share GIFs


----------



## redhusky (Jun 19, 2020)

Stray Cat Terry said:


> Disagreement and agreement.
> 
> 
> Disagreement
> ...


Well, the answer is obvious then! Animals need to man up and stop putting up with that kind of bullshit!


----------



## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

Unpopular opinion but after reading through this thread I agree with OP. Their original post wasn't worded in the best way, but I understand where they're coming from as someone who likes to do a bit of writing myself. I'm disappointed that so many were quick to make shitty, pretty responses instead of engaging them like a fucking adult. Kudos to the folks that added some good counterpoints. I'm gonna try not to just repeat what others have said, but here's my take:

I have no qualms with people who just want a ton of porn of their characters or the occasional NSFW commission. I'm all for sex-positivity. I have an entire project dedicated to just NSFW stories and lore for my characters, including my fursona. That being said, it would help the fandom greatly if SFW content was promoted more. I mean half the reason there's a "Coming out" post made weekly is because there's a really gross stigma attached to the fandom and people pretending like it ain't something to be concerned about truly baffles me. I don't give a fuck what people think about me or what I'm into, but the fandom isn't just _me_. There are tons of younger furs, new furs, and people that just want something wholesome to share with outsiders that could really use a clean space to work in before they go off the deep end. Like it or not, when most people hear "furry", they think of sex-crazed zoophiles. That's obviously not the case, but let's be real, it's not like most of us are putting in the effort to combat the stereotype.

Hell, this probably wouldn't even be a discussion worth having if FA and dA had a proper tagging system. A category for fetish/sexually charged content that's in between General and Mature would be great. It could be accessible to people under 18 but when SFW mode is on, that content gets filtered out. But whatever, that's getting off-topic.

You can have your slutty OCs. I will never argue against more content being added to the fandom, sexual or otherwise. It'd just be nice to have more clean content and for people to at least pretend to care about others that prefer to that kind of content.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> Unpopular opinion but after reading through this thread I agree with OP. Their original post wasn't worded in the best way, but I understand where they're coming from as someone who likes to do a bit of writing myself. I'm disappointed that so many were quick to make shitty, pretty responses instead of engaging them like a fucking adult. Kudos to the folks that added some good counterpoints. I'm gonna try not to just repeat what others have said, but here's my take:
> 
> I have no qualms with people who just want a ton of porn of their characters or the occasional NSFW commission. I'm all for sex-positivity. I have an entire project dedicated to just NSFW stories and lore for my characters, including my fursona. That being said, it would help the fandom greatly if SFW content was promoted more. I mean half the reason there's a "Coming out" post made weekly is because there's a really gross stigma attached to the fandom and people pretending like it ain't something to be concerned about truly baffles me. I don't give a fuck what people think about me or what I'm into, but the fandom isn't just _me_. There are tons of younger furs, new furs, and people that just want something wholesome to share with outsiders that could really use a clean space to work in before they go off the deep end. Like it or not, when most people hear "furry", they think of sex-crazed zoophiles. That's obviously not the case, but let's be real, it's not like most of us are putting in the effort to combat the stereotype.
> 
> ...


Okay boomer


----------



## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Okay boomer



I'm... 21?


----------



## Rayd (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> I'm... 21?


isn't my signature very ironic


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 20, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> isn't my signature very ironic


Nice. Also if saying okay boomer makes me a dick then I'm okay with being a dick. That's like the best come back ever invented lol


----------



## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Nice. Also if saying okay boomer makes me a dick then I'm okay with being a dick. That's like the best come back ever invented lol


It doesnt make you a dick but it does prove my point.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> It doesnt make you a dick but it does prove my point.


What point was that?


----------



## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

wasn't most of FA's content SFW anyway? I remember something like one third nsfw two thirds SFW.


----------



## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> What point was that?



>  I make a post trying to add something thoughtful to the thread
> you proceed to do one of the things I complained about with zero self awareness

Dude you can do what you want and disagree all you like. A half assed response like "ok Boomer" though really isn't doing anyone any favors. Like if you're gonna disagree, cool, but do you have an actual rebuttal? This is a discussion board.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> >  I make a post trying to add something thoughtful to the thread
> > you proceed to do one of the things I complained about with zero self awareness
> 
> Dude you can do what you want and disagree all you like. A half assed response like "ok Boomer" though really isn't doing anyone any favors. Like if you're gonna disagree, cool, but do you have an actual rebuttal? This is a discussion board.


I knew exactly what I was doing. And just like the op you're just whining about a fantasy you wish was true. I wish a lot of things were different, but you know, whining about them on forums do nothing.


----------



## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I knew exactly what I was doing. And just like the op you're just whining about a fantasy you wish was true. I wish a lot of things were different, but you know, whining about them on forums do nothing.



This is a forum??? What, are we supposed to only talk about things we like? I'm not the cops. I mean regardless of my "whining" you can do what you like. I feel like you didn't  actually read my post.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> This is a forum??? What, are we supposed to only talk about things we like? I'm not the cops. I mean regardless of my "whining" you can do what you like. I feel like you didn't  actually read my post.


It is a forum. Which is why I can respond to you however I like.


----------



## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> It is a forum. Which is why I can respond to you however I like.



Yeah that's what I said.


----------



## Rayd (Jun 20, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Nice. Also if saying okay boomer makes me a dick then I'm okay with being a dick. That's like the best come back ever invented lol


it's just ironic in general, really. if anything i'm thankful for being given such a perfect quote for a signature. you do you.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 20, 2020)

Aprilycan said:


> it's just ironic in general, really. if anything i'm thankful for being given such a perfect quote for a signature. you do you.


You're also getting a callout post report. So thanks as well.


----------



## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

Kindergarden's next door guys.


----------



## Rayd (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Kindergarden's next door guys.


you literally said shit-stirring on forums is fun. you have no room to talk. lol.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> I'm disappointed that so many were quick to make shitty, pretty responses instead of engaging them like a fucking adult.


Protip: If you really want to have a discussion don't poison the well. See this sentence? This passive-aggressiveness taint's the rest of the post because from here on sound like your speaking down to us even if you didn't mean to. 



OvineTanuki said:


> Hell, this probably wouldn't even be a discussion worth having if FA and dA had a proper tagging system. A category for fetish/sexually charged content that's in between General and Mature would be great. It could be accessible to people under 18 but when SFW mode is on, that content gets filtered out. But whatever, that's getting off-topic.


FA already has filters for both fetishes and content ratings. If people aren't using the then report them. 
DA used to have a proper anthro section with more filters but the admins, notably Jark you guy remember that Jark nonsense, personally disliked the genre, along with many others, and "crammed" it together.



ConorHyena said:


> wasn't most of FA's content SFW anyway? I remember something like one third nsfw two thirds SFW.


You are correct, most anthro art is SFW. I've been part of the online fandom since 1996 and this type of conversation comes up every so often and the answer to it is always: Stop looking at the NSFW content and use the filters that are already there for you to use. And the NSFW content is just what gets all the attention so stop making it an issue. ANNNND don't try to cheat and lump lewds in with the outright X rated content! 

Case in point, this site is called "The Belfry Archives" it a site that's been going on for almost 20 years now and it lists web comics that are either totally anthro or at least has an anthro character in it. it's rating system is:

_A_ Adult Situations
_L_ Adult Language
_N_ Nudity
_V_ Graphic Violence
_X_ Explicit (NC-17)

This is a link to the ENTIRE listing. notice how many "Xs" there are and you'll see what I mean. new.belfrycomics.net: The Belfry WebComics Index


----------



## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Kindergarden's next door guys.


Don't spoil my entertainment!


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> This passive-aggressiveness taint's the rest of the post because from here on sound like your speaking down to us even if you didn't mean to.



Didn't seem like speaking down, more like pointing out what happened. When a member responds with "make me" and nothing else to a long thread that wants genuine discussion that can very easily be seen as,

• Petty
• Childish
• Etc.

I don't think they meant the comment towards people who genuinely disagreed and gave reasons for it. I think this was just towards the people who clearly didn't give a fuck and wanted to be petty and "funny" about it, which...well. I can't blame  the guy for saying something about that. Not one bit.



redhusky said:


> FA already has filters for both fetishes and content ratings.



This has been talked about to death at this point but, to put it mildly - can confirm two truths about FA for you:

• Rarely do people tag properly which ruins the filter (i see clear NSFW and debatable NSFW in general/SFW areas more times than I can count when browsing)

• Even when people tag right, there's borderline fetish material that skims passed the adult bar (and I'm not just bitching about inflation or other "not-fetish fetishes" with that remark)

This was proven more or less with several posts, though most images were changed to adult a day after I'd pointed them out (yay?) I highly doubt it'll stop the mass majority that just chill in General due to FA having little to no actual control of what's submitted under what tag and users not being able to add tags themselves (I really wish FA just implemented a more updated user interactive filter system, one of my only "large" - and by that I mean prevalent and annoying - complaints...).

I am of the opinion that anyone's issue with unwanted fetish viewings and/or the desire to see more creative content would be handled at least 70% better than what the current system offers if it were updated - but what do I know? I'm just a gal with sharp teeth.



redhusky said:


> You are correct, most anthro art is SFW.



**types in dog in general only search under SFW**

_Search results (1 - 72 of 653783)_

**types in dog in mature/adult only search without SFW**

_(1 - 72 of 284165)_

Hmm...

Well there's definitely more SFW for doggos (roughly 78% more), for example, but not really by a lot in the grand scheme of things since this is only looking up one generic word and as said prior there is adult content in sfw often. In short, this is only one general example of a generic fursona type. I'd like to find a better way to math this throughout the entirety of art submissions as only looking at one thing is very flawed, but I have no idea how to do that with FA's current system.


Anyway, I'm getting carried away with math and am far too off topic. Much like this thread feels, though of no help from me lol.

I guess my point with this post is if the OP gave up responding I think it's time we all went back to our memes and tea. <3


----------



## FluffyShutterbug (Jun 20, 2020)

Uh, guys, we're beating a dead horse, here.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> Didn't seem like speaking down, more like pointing out what happened. When a member responds with "make me" and nothing else to a long thread that wants genuine discussion that can very easily be seen as,
> 
> • Petty
> • Childish
> ...


The point is that I want to get across to not open the door in the first place then act surprised when people respond. On more than one occasion, not just here, I see people passive aggressively taking jabs then claiming they just wanted a discussion then acting all shocked that people point out the former. Moral of the story, just don't open the door. I know, there's a lot to be triggered over this thread but there comes a time where you have to be the bigger person and be respectful. Now, if someone comes at you fine but don't start anything yourself.


----------



## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Uh, guys, we're beating a dead horse, here.


IDK, I'm actually having fun.


----------



## ZeroVoidTime (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Kindergarden's next door guys.


_"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up anyway." _ _Walt _
_Disney_
(I felt this was a fitting quote I will leave it at that.)


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> just don't open the door



People have every right to talk about what they're passionate about. Call the original post as blunt as you want, but tbe OP did not insult anyone in it. The ones responding in childish manners were the ones throwing "jabs". It's not necessarily a passive aggressive attack if another poster points out that what they did was childish. Since it factually was. There was no passive aggression to be seen. Just one side (the arguably childish side) showing comedic disrespect for the sake of "cool points" or what have you. :/

While I will agree that if you want to avoid any criticism whatsoever, you just avoid bringing up a topic, but clearly that wasn't their goal. So I don't see your point.


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> IDK, I'm actually having fun.



Nothing wrong with conversation ~


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> **types in dog in general only search under SFW**
> 
> _Search results (1 - 72 of 653783)_
> 
> ...



NOTE: Did you edit the post since posting? The thread currently reads but when the reply is different:

**types in hug under SFW**

_Search results (1 - 72 of 103580)_

**types in sex without SFW**

_Search results (1 - 72 of 568051)_

But regardless, this brings up search under with SFW mode off also adds in lewds which isn't just x rated material. It what I brought up earlier and why it's not a good metric to go by at all.


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## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> NOTE: Did you edit the post since posting? The thread currently reads but when the reply is different



Yeah I went over numbers again since posting and made the search term more general because I felt my original comparison might have been unfair. I do that often when bringing math into something since I like to try and be as factual as possible.


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## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> But regardless, this brings up search under with SFW mode off also adds in lewds which isn't just x rated material. It what I brought up earlier and why it's not a good metric to go by at all.



*shrugs* If you have a better system I'd be happy to use it.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> People have every right to talk about what they're passionate about. Call the original post as blunt as you want, but tbe OP did not insult anyone in it. The ones responding in childish manners were the ones throwing "jabs". It's not necessarily a passive aggressive attack if another poster points out that what they did was childish. Since it factually was. There was no passive aggression to be seen. Just one side (the arguably childish side) showing comedic disrespect for the sake of "cool points" or what have you. :/
> 
> While I will agree that if you want to avoid any criticism whatsoever, you just avoid bringing up a topic, but clearly that wasn't their goal. So I don't see your point.



Never implied that shouldn't talk about it, in fact I encouraged it. We are going to have agreed to disagree on the passive aggressiveness on post in question then. 



Raever said:


> While I will agree that if you want to avoid any criticism whatsoever, you just avoid bringing up a topic, but clearly that wasn't their goal. So I don't see your point.



I don't know came to this conclusion on what I said. You can talk about what ever you want. Criticism wasn't meant towards what they said but more HOW they said it.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> _"You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up anyway." _ _Walt
> Disney_
> (I felt this was a fitting quote I will leave it at that.)


Fuck that! I'M A TOUGH GUY!


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## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> Well there's definitely more SFW for doggos (roughly 78% more), for example, but not really by a lot in the grand scheme of things since this is only looking up one generic word and as said prior there is adult content in sfw often.



I think almost 80% more is a lot, especially when we're talking about things that were thrown around like "this fandom is inherently sexual" 

even if we factor in 10% mis-tagged/sfw fetish stuff (which I think is a lot) you'd still be at 68/32 for SFW content, and I think that's a large margin.


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## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Never implied that shouldn't talk about it, in fact I encouraged it. We are going to have agreed to disagree on the passive aggressiveness on post in question then.



Might be possible that I mistook one post for something else. I have a few members blocked due to their behaviors so you might have said something to them and I could have taken it out of context. Who knows?



redhusky said:


> I don't know came to this conclusion on what I said. You can talk about what ever you want. Criticism wasn't meant towards what they said but



I definitely misunderstood you then, my apologies!


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> I think almost 80% more is a lot, especially when we're talking about things that were thrown around like "this fandom is inherently sexual"
> 
> even if we factor in 10% mis-tagged/sfw fetish stuff (which I think is a lot) you'd still be at 68/32 for SFW content, and I think that's a large margin.



I edited that quite a few minutes ago. 

Other edit: when I said not a lot in the grand scheme of things I meant because I was only looking up one word, which was generic, and only fit one of MANY species in the sona animal/fantasy beast kingdom. Again, the FA system for finding detailed results is extremely difficult to figure out so, I'm not convinced that there's not more NSFW than SFW due to the sexual and kinky scene that the community brings with it as apart of its escapism.

If there was a way to sort every submission on FA and figure out how much was SFW and how much was NSFW (even excluding the not-fetish fetishes like inflation or feet or something) that would be far more telling than typing in one of many species and giving an example number. >_>;;



Spoiler: more experimental numbers



"Furry" in General = 756976
"Furry" in Mature = 129727
"Furry" in Adult = 162474
"Furry" in Mature/Adult = 292201

- not including general for obvious reasons -
"Sex" in Mature = 46502
"Sex" in Adult = 471626
"Sex" in Mature/Adult = 518128

And just for fun some of everyone's favorite brands...

"Pokemon" in General = 510125
"Pokemon" in Mature = 107471
"Pokemon" in Adult = 215250
"Pokemon" in Mature/Adult = 322721

"Digimon" in General = 49555
"Digimon" in Mature = 13279
"Digimon" in Adult = 31629 (fun fact over 20000 of it is purely renamon)
"Digimon" in Mature/Adult = 44908

Theory: When looking for specific things like fandom art you have a 30% - 80% likelihood (depending on the fandom) of finding furry porn instead of wholesome Furry art but when looking for more generic one word searches - obviously, - the percentage of stumbling into porn is lesser.

Is this mind melting? No.

But I can understand the frustration all the same. While percentage might look low due to a mix of reasons (outdated system, inability to possibly sort every submission, etc) when you search through one or two fandoms the numbers are either much more evenly matched or the fetish content in comparison to the normal is outrageous.

Except for Sonic for some reason.
They have a lot more General art, though most of it is inflation and feet. Huh, I'm noticing a connection sonic fans, and it makes me question my own fandom now. -_-


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> I think almost 80% more is a lot, especially when we're talking about things that were thrown around like "this fandom is inherently sexual"
> 
> even if we factor in 10% mis-tagged/sfw fetish stuff (which I think is a lot) you'd still be at 68/32 for SFW content, and I think that's a large margin.


"this fandom is inherently sexual"Reminds of back in the 90's and early 2000's when anime was really starting to get mainstream. People pointed out that "hentai" existed and "pearl clutchey" types kept acting like most of it was hentai and people who actually enjoyed the media were like "Wut?" 

The issue that I have with saying things are "mature content" as a metric for "sexual content" is that not everything that is rated mature is sexually explicit. It could just be violent, lewd, racially charged, or even the artist themselves might find it a bit "too much" for personal reasons. Remember link the The Belfry Archive, there is a lot of Ns and V's but very few X's in comparison.


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## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> The issue that I have with saying things are "mature content" as a metric for "sexual content" is that not everything that is rated mature is sexually explicit.



I agree with you almost completely however I've seen a lot of Adult content put into Mature and vice versa on FA so excuse me for combining the two in regards to search related math experiments.



redhusky said:


> "this fandom is inherently sexual"



I'm always 50/50 on this statement myself. 

On the one hand, the furry community is extremely open about its sexuality, kinks, and is quite expressive in its art due to its anonymity but on the other hand...is every animal or anthro based art considered furry? 

Because if so anthro sex takes up a large margin. Or is furry art only furry art when the artist is a furry...? 



Spoiler



(This is where things get even MORE tricky for statistics. It's enough to give any creature a headache.)



If so, furry identifying artists and art commissioners - I'm willing to bet, - are likely to have sexual art to some capacity. Very few of them are "clean", especially on FA. Though this is just based on personal experience in the fandom and not any scientific proof or data.

Not every fandom is as open about their kinks and sexual fantasies as the furry fandom, and because of that, it can and will be brought up time and time again. Both by community members and outsiders alike. This obviously doesn't put any blame or shame on sex pieces because - as said prior - everyone gets horny. But it does mean that anthro sex art of nearly anything is, arguably, easier to find by accident (imo) than "normal" sexual fandom art.


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Jun 20, 2020)

I mean, fursonas are meant to be how you represent yourself online.
So if you wanna represent yourself as a horny and overly sexualized anthro, go ahead.
Just know that I already called the cops;


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> everyone gets horny.


This is my new shut down phrase for this topic. 

I suppose we can only talk about personal experience atm. For me, 9/10 of the furs that I know enjoy lewd to x rated but they keep it to themselves and their work is "clean" the other 1/10 does post such content but they are fully aware of any and all stigma and the attention it brings and they make it their business to follow the rules of the site they are on. The thing is that more "eyeballs" go onto them and I think that's what's causing all of this.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Smexy Likeok4 said:


> Just know that I already called the cops;


Thanks, KAREN!


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> This is my new shut down phrase for this topic.
> 
> I suppose we can only talk about personal experience atm. For me, 9/10 of the furs that I know enjoy lewd to x rated but they keep it to themselves and their work is "clean" the other 1/10 does post such content but they are fully aware of any and all stigma and the attention it brings and they make it their business to follow the rules of the site they are on. The thing is that more "eyeballs" go onto them and I think that's what's causing all of this.



Yeah this tends to be the logic everyone, or most people anyway, agrees upon in the end.


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## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

Smexy Likeok4 said:


> Just know that I already called the cops



YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE!


----------



## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> I'm always 50/50 on this statement myself.
> 
> On the one hand, the furry community is extremely open about its sexuality, kinks, and is quite expressive in its art due to its anonymity but on the other hand...is every animal or anthro based art considered furry?
> 
> ...



Okay so forgive me if I'm going to ask for clarification - but what do you mean by animal or anthro based art considered furry and if this being the case anthro sex taking  up a large margin?

The numbers again tell us that the majority of FA uploads (which are almost exclusively furry themed, be it feral or anthro) are SFW.

Even so, the fact that people have SFW and NSFW at the same time would contradict the OP's expression that sexual art is shallow - for a lot of furries it is, according to your experience, part of their character (Like sex is part of each of our lives in some way or other without making us shallow)


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## Fallowfox (Jun 20, 2020)

Sometimes a backstory isn't a good thing anyway. 

I remember roleplaying with one furry and then he says his fursona killed his mother. 

Like...woah now.


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## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Sometimes a backstory isn't a good thing anyway.
> 
> I remember roleplaying with one furry and then he says his fursona killed his mother.
> 
> Like...woah now.



this can be well done, but this can also be edgy crap. As with all things it depends on the ability of the dude doing it


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## Fallowfox (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> this can be well done, but this can also be edgy crap. As with all things it depends on the ability of the dude doing it



Eitherway it spoils my latex fart TF hypno roleplay.


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## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Eitherway it spoils my latex fart TF hypno roleplay.



this is unfortunate, I am sorry it did. I'm sure you'll be able to fart eternal on the diarrhea road some other time.


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## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Okay so forgive me if I'm going to ask for clarification - but what do you mean by animal or anthro based art considered furry and if this being the case anthro sex taking  up a large margin?
> 
> The numbers again tell us that the majority of FA uploads (which are almost exclusively furry themed, be it feral or anthro) are SFW.
> 
> Even so, the fact that people have SFW and NSFW at the same time would contradict the OP's expression that sexual art is shallow - for a lot of furries it is, according to your experience, part of their character (Like sex is part of each of our lives in some way or other without making us shallow)



At this point Conor, I have absolutely no idea anymore. I feel like a news journalist typing on a type writer analyzing articles with one too many cigarettes. It all doesn't add up - what I see versus numbers. Something's gotta be off, and yet, they're right there. Maybe I'm just sensitive. *shrugs*

In regards to the based on argument it's kind of like saying, "There's more SFW art of dragons than NSFW" - and yes, because dragons are mythical creatures that have inspired artists for decades. However, would any of that be considered Furry since it wasn't made with a Furry audience in mind? Probably not.

I just fell into a rabbit hole of technicalities due to sleepiness I presume. Similar to how I might view any fetish art as Mature or NSFW but a lot of fetish art is seen as General so long as it isn't showing privates. Which I personally just can't agree with, and feel that it most definitely ruins the numbers. Even if they are still higher, there's just so much head-tilting "this is clearly a fetish" art that a kid really has no business seeing, and it is most certainly not General or Wholesome or even in most cases creative (though that last one will surely offend some kinksters). I'm sorry but your blobs all look the same to me, and often have the same backgrounds too. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here, point is...

I think that the results are hard to calculate with such a flawed system, and i also think there's a lot of human art and fandom art on FA unrelated to anthros so that just takes a whole other direction with the "Does it count in the analysis if it isn't furry based?" And-well...

I need coffee lol


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> this is unfortunate, I am sorry it did. I'm sure you'll be able to fart eternal on the diarrhea road some other time.


Don't spoil everyone's fun!


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## ConorHyena (Jun 20, 2020)

Raever said:


> At this point Conor, I have absolutely no idea anymore. I feel like a news journalist typing on a type writer analyzing articles with one too many cigarettes. It all doesn't add up - what I see versus numbers. Something's gotta be off, and yet, they're right there. Maybe I'm just sensitive. *shrugs*
> 
> In regards to the based on argument it's kind of like saying, "There's more SFW art of dragons than NSFW" - and yes, because dragons are mythical creatures that have inspired artists for decades. However, would any of that be considered Furry since it wasn't made with a Furry audience in mind? Probably not.
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with the aspect that FA has a labeling issue, I've made that clear in the respective thread too. And even if there's 10% mislabeled art that is still a lot.

However, I think what you're describing is actually confirmation bias/anecdotal vs statistical evidence.  Sometimes our perception tricks us like that, making us see what we expect to see.

The percentage of human art on FA is relatively low, and since we're using FA as a starting point for our data analysis the medival art of dragons is immaterial, it's not on FA.

I think, perosnally, that a lot of people go on FA with the opinion "furries are sexual" and then fall into the trap of confirmation bias (because there is sexual content, but it's not the majority) and we get threads like this.

*makes coffee for you*


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## OvineTanuki (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Protip: If you really want to have a discussion don't poison the well. See this sentence? This passive-aggressiveness taint's the rest of the post because from here on sound like your speaking down to us even if you didn't mean to.
> 
> 
> FA already has filters for both fetishes and content ratings. If people aren't using the then report them.
> ...



I'll admit I was kinda salty when I made that post, but that was directed at people just making one or two-word jabs and not offering anything else. A little snarkiness never killed anyone but just an insult and nothing else doesn't add anything.

I promise I'm not looking for sexual content lmao If the SFW filter actually worked half of the time I wouldn't feel the need to complain. Maybe my idea of SFW is a bit stricter than most, but fetish content slipping past the filter on a technicality has always been my biggest issue with the filter. Since it technically doesn't break the rules I can't report them. Not to mention all of the mature art with a couple a black bars slapped on it so it can be posted under the General section, once again subverting it on a technicality. My problem was with the way the filter itself works, not how people tag. Should've made that clear, my bad.

I'm not a prude by any means, _I'm cool with porn and fetishes_, it'd just be nice to have it filtered. Maybe I'm asking for too much but still.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 20, 2020)

Honestly, I thought that this was one of those cases where someone makes an account just to piss people off, which is why my response was short and vague, but now I want to add more, since the OP returned to apologize for any misunderstandings. 

I still completely disagree with the statement that nsfw characters are bland, and that they have no depth, meaning or development. This sounds like something someone says when they've never met the people they are talking about. I know people who have a significant amount of nsfw artwork, where their characters have interesting and detailed backstories. 

But then, I can only speak for myself. I am not going to name names and point fingers. I don't care what the outsider's perception of the fandom is. People will see what they want to see. If they truly cared, then they'd do their research. It is not my job to convince them of anything. 

And speaking for myself, I can say this: lately, I've been writing only NSFW content and commissioning only NSFW drawings of my character. Why? First, because I love it, and second - because I live in a country where the LGBT minority has no protection  and no rights, and is often the victim of violence and in some extreme cases - murder. I can never experience the things that I write about, and the things that I commission. I can never talk about them freely, with another person face to face. Which is why this is something that helps me cope with that. 

My character doesn't just represent some hot anthro boi - he represents ideas, ideals, my desire for absolute freedom. He represents something I cannot have. And calling that shallow and devoid of meaning, emotions, feeling, depth... well, that's straight up wrong.


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## Aiai (Jun 20, 2020)

I agree with Rimna. In many many countries LGBT+/disabled/women/racial minorites/others have their sexuality repressed, shamed, or outright criminalized and persecuted. Using fursonas or art in general to express, enjoy, or take control of their sexuality is not only a normal and healthy response, it is an absolutely critical outlet.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Rimna said:


> I don't care what the outsider's perception of the fandom is. People will see what they want to see. If they truly cared, then they'd do their research. It is not my job to convince them of anything.


This.


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## quoting_mungo (Jun 20, 2020)

As for the proportion of FA submissions that’s General/Mature/Adult, there’s always this: www.furaffinity.net: FA submission map 2010-04-29 by Yak
The data is about 10 years old at this point, but it doesn’t appear the proportion of NSFW work was shifting significantly over time, so it should still be sufficient to give a general idea. This comment breaks it down into actual numbers; excluding the deleted submissions the proportion is very roughly 2/3 SFW and 1/3 NSFW.



redhusky said:


> I know, there's a lot to be triggered over this thread but there comes a time where you have to be the bigger person and be respectful.


Um... using “triggered” in that manner isn’t exactly demonstrating how to “be the bigger person and be respectful.” Could you please not? Because it’s basically making light of people with legitimate mental and physical ailments that are set off by specific stimuli (triggers).


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> As for the proportion of FA submissions that’s General/Mature/Adult, there’s always this: www.furaffinity.net: FA submission map 2010-04-29 by Yak
> The data is about 10 years old at this point, but it doesn’t appear the proportion of NSFW work was shifting significantly over time, so it should still be sufficient to give a general idea. This comment breaks it down into actual numbers; excluding the deleted submissions the proportion is very roughly 2/3 SFW and 1/3 NSFW.
> 
> 
> Um... using “triggered” in that manner isn’t exactly demonstrating how to “be the bigger person and be respectful.” Could you please not? Because it’s basically making light of people with legitimate mental and physical ailments that are set off by specific stimuli (triggers).


It's a normal turn of phrase and nothing is meant by it.


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## quoting_mungo (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> It's a normal turn of phrase and nothing is meant by it.


It’s definitely not; it’s a semi-technical term that was co-opted by “edgy” assholes to mock “SJWs” objecting to their bigotry. Using it in that manner is harmful in that it makes light of something that’s a serious issue for the people suffering from conditions associated with triggers, which can cause real harm.

I’m not saying you meant harm by it, but brushing it off as “turn of phrase” is ignoring the reality of how it ended up in common use by people with nothing better to do than be assholes on the Internet.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> It’s definitely not; it’s a semi-technical term that was co-opted by “edgy” assholes to mock “SJWs” objecting to their bigotry. Using it in that manner is harmful in that it makes light of something that’s a serious issue for the people suffering from conditions associated with triggers, which can cause real harm.
> 
> I’m not saying you meant harm by it, but brushing it off as “turn of phrase” is ignoring the reality of how it ended up in common use by people with nothing better to do than be assholes on the Internet.


No, it's a normal turn a of phrase and nothing is meant by it. It's used when something is said that can potentially rile you up or push "those" buttons that can cause someone to react angrily or with varying degrees of annoyance.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 20, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Sometimes a backstory isn't a good thing anyway.
> 
> I remember roleplaying with one furry and then he says his fursona killed his mother.
> 
> Like...woah now.



Actually, there are no bad characters, only bad writers. The backstory is good if you can actually pull it off. In my story the villains have a lot of family values, they're scum to other people but then they sit down at the dinner table and have nice 'evil is one big happy family' bonding.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Actually, there are no bad characters, only bad writers. The backstory is good if you can actually pull it off. In my story the villains have a lot of family values, they're scum to other people but then they sit down at the dinner table and have nice 'evil is one big happy family' bonding.


So are the good ones cat ladies in your story?


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## quoting_mungo (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> No, it's a normal turn a of phrase and nothing is meant by it. It's used when something is said that can potentially rile you up or push "those" buttons that can cause someone to react angrily or with varying degrees of annoyance.


You are defending ableist usage of a term that is important in psychology. The usage you’re suggesting is “normal” is much more recent, and is predominantly employed by people who have little or no consideration for others, and may even derive amusement out of deliberately antagonizing others.

We have users on this forum with PTSD. Calling the reaction of people who are simply upset about a difference of opinion “triggered” is extremely disrespectful towards those users, and trivializes the impact actual triggers can have on people suffering from mental health issues (or certain physical conditions - epileptics can have seizure triggers for example).


----------



## Vesper The Coyusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Ok now I'm gonna showcase my two cents. My fursona, I treat him like my personality and how I perceive myself in the fandom . I don't have a backstory or anything because I'm not that creative or that special. He's very plain, nothing really sexual about him or interesting about him.Might ask for a piece of art here and there. But nothing big and irritating to the point that it's unconfortable to a majority of those around me.
Fursona's can be anything special, but  having it oversexualized is ridiculous, and I believe it just makes them look more bad in real life because what you think of how sexual that fursona is, that doesn't mean thats how they perceive to be in real life. That also doesn't mean, oh this is gonna make me so popular people are gonna follow me and I'm gonna get popular. That doesn't work that way. JUST BE YOURSELF. It's just ridiculous how some people want to take their fursona to the next level and it just makes us normal or creative furries that make awesome fursonas look bad.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> You are defending ableist usage of a term that is important in psychology. The usage you’re suggesting is “normal” is much more recent, and is predominantly employed by people who have little or no consideration for others, and may even derive amusement out of deliberately antagonizing others.


The very first paragraph in that article alone explains how the terms triggered is used in normal conversation and why. 

_"What does it mean to be "triggered?" In recent years, this term has been casually used to refer to the experience of having an emotional reaction, usually to some type of disturbing content (such as violence or the mention of suicide) in the media or in another social setting."  _

The rest of that article just explains the origins of the word and goes into more details. It's just technical information starting with:

_"However, there is a difference between being triggered and being uncomfortable. Feeling triggered isn't just about something rubbing you the wrong way."_

From there goes into the technical side of triggers and how to categorize them and such which doesn't help you in this. My usage is no different from using terms like "ego" from physiology. So as I said, it's a normal turn a of phrase and nothing is meant by it.

I'm not going to indulge you being outraged on behalf of other users. I too have friends who suffer and they'd be the first to tell you that they don't care.


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## Aiai (Jun 20, 2020)

I'm mentally ill. I care. "Triggered" is a slur. Please don't use it.


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## Valryth (Jun 20, 2020)

While I'm not personally bothered by the usage of "triggered" (despite having a mental condition that's based on triggers too) I can see why it would be seen as harmful to others, so I guess I just wanted to pop by and say that I can see where mungo and Aiai are coming from!

I think that you should be able to say it whenever you want, but if someone feels genuinely uncomfortable about it then I think that the best thing would be to simply avoid saying it to them out of respect to the individual, since it _can _be harmful (even if it's not always so for everyone!)

It's pretty much like using "bipolar" as an adjective to describe a drastic mood shift. Pretty harmless and people get what you're saying, but people who are actually bipolar could feel offended. 

Then again, that's kinda off-topic so I'll leave my two cents and go!


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Valryth said:


> While I'm not personally bothered by the usage of "triggered" (despite having a mental condition that's based on triggers too) I can see why it would be seen as harmful to others, so I guess I just wanted to pop by and say that I can see where mungo and Aiai are coming from!
> 
> I think that you should be able to say it whenever you want, but if someone feels genuinely uncomfortable about it then I think that the best thing would be to simply avoid saying it to them out of respect to the individual, since it _can _be harmful (even if it's not always so for everyone!)
> 
> ...


I agree, I'm cool with someone not asking me to say it to them but it's the language policing aspect I'm not having any of. It's a normal turn a of phrase and nothing is meant by it.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> So are the good ones cat ladies in your story?



Most of my cat ladies are pure evil, Sherly is the main antagonist and she commits genocide. Monica is Scylla's lesbian gal-pal henchwoman though, she's psychic.


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Most of my cat ladies are pure evil, Sherly is a main antagonist and she commits genocide.


Oh yeah, definitely a cat lady.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Oh yeah, definitely a cat lady.



A literal, cat lady:


----------



## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> A literal, cat lady:


LITERALLY a cat lady!


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## Jaredthefox92 (Jun 20, 2020)

redhusky said:


> LITERALLY a cat lady!



Yes, LITERALLY.


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> *makes coffee for you*



Based on the current evidence? Yeah. I gotta agree with you there. Also much thanks. <3


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## redhusky (Jun 20, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> *makes coffee for you*


Wait, you had coffee this whole time!?


----------



## Raever (Jun 20, 2020)

OvineTanuki said:


> I promise I'm not looking for sexual content lmao If the SFW filter actually worked half of the time I wouldn't feel the need to complain. Maybe my idea of SFW is a bit stricter than most, but fetish content slipping past the filter on a technicality has always been my biggest issue with the filter. Since it technically doesn't break the rules I can't report them. Not to mention all of the mature art with a couple a black bars slapped on it so it can be posted under the General section, once again subverting it on a technicality. My problem was with the way the filter itself works, not how people tag.



You and at least eighteen other members have this problem, but unfortunately I don't think the majority tend to care - or if they do they shrug it off rather easily. </3

If a lot of members asked FA tomorrow to fix the filter system or update the guidelines for said filters with more specific requirements for each section so the above mentioned couldn't happen then it would be a better viewing experience, but...ya know. How dare we want better because that means we aren't sex positive or kinky enough or something. (Note: yes I'm salty since I'm like, one of the biggest kinksters you'll probably meet. I just like my wholesome content darnit!)



Rimna said:


> My character doesn't just represent some hot anthro boi - he represents ideas, ideals, my desire for absolute freedom. He represents something I cannot have. And calling that shallow and devoid of meaning, emotions, feeling, depth... well, that's straight up wrong.



That's...an unexpected and really beautiful way to put it.



quoting_mungo said:


> The data is about 10 years old at this point, but it doesn’t appear the proportion of NSFW work was shifting significantly over time, so it should still be sufficient to give a general idea. This comment breaks it down into actual numbers; excluding the deleted submissions the proportion is very roughly 2/3 SFW and 1/3 NSFW.



Why they made that instead of a "normal" visual graph (ex. Pie graph, line graph, etc) confuses me.



quoting_mungo said:


> co-opted by “edgy” assholes to mock “SJWs” objecting to their bigotry



Crazy how game lingo can invade social political discussions. For what it's worth while I agree the word can be used by assholes, I do not view the blatant definition as automatic-asshole-and-biggot-identifying material. Nor do I associate someone's psychological wellbeing with it.

If a word born from video game lingo hurts your feelings bad enough to linger in your brain and cause permanent damage, that might be a sign of underlying mental illness in regards to emotional imbalance and that can't just be solely blamed on a word and it's existence.

I think you might be taking this a tad bit too personally, especially since the word wasn't even used at you. While I do think that with current social cues triggered can denote a negative context, I don't think the user was actively trying to piss someone off. I took it more in the neutral tone of, "Ay mate. Chill. Time to be an adult." instead of the instigative asshole tone of, "FUCK YOU YOU'RE TRIGGERED LOLOLOL FEGGIT".

Like, contextually, it's clear what tone @redhusky was going for. x3



Aiai said:


> I'm mentally ill. I care. "Triggered" is a slur. Please don't use it.



Hello fellow mentally ill person. 

I disagree. Please block people who use it if you would like to not see it. This removes the issue, as their posts will be hidden. 

A stranger has no necessary obligation to respect your - uh....gun-like mechanisms(?) - as it's demanding a sense of subtle control over them that you neither have the bond nor mutual respect to ask for. General respect for your fellow human doesn't automatically denote that they change the way that they speak for you when it actually isn't a slur or any type of hate speech. That's something friends and family do. People who actually care about you outside of just you being a fellow living individual that deserves basic human rights.

It's similar to telling someone to stop saying "Peanut butter" or "Crash" or "Boulderdash" because it reminds you of a past trauma. It's literally just a word that can contextually be positive ("Good job staying cool and not getting triggered in that last game man!"), neutral ("Man I'm so salty and triggered right now this stupid ticket is gonna ruin my bills this month."), or negative ("Ay yo-" you get the idea...). It has nothing to do with anything outside of context. Besides, telling people what not to say "just because you don't like it" isn't right. Like, it's literally morally wrong (imo).


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 21, 2020)

Raever said:


> That's...an unexpected and really beautiful way to put it.



May I ask why it's unexpected?


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## Raever (Jun 21, 2020)

Rimna said:


> May I ask why it's unexpected?



Well, for context purposes I live in the US. Land of the free and all that slogan BS. 

Still, I'd be lying if I said we as a people are very oppressed generally speaking. We got our problems sure, but we also allow everyone to work, get married, go to college, etc regardless of gender or sexual orientation. 

People walk down the streets of major towns and cities making jokes about being gay openly, and even most small towns I've been in have been relatively relaxed with things. There are very few places I've seen that actively hurt or went out of their way to mob gay folks and usually the small religious towns that do either do it passive-aggressively (albeit it can get dangerous no doubt) or they just don't socialize with ya much if they aren't paid to. At worse, smaller businesses might refuse service if they're religiously inclined to do so usually there's so many shops that you can always just go across the street and find what you need easily.

Comparing that to places who punish, maim, or kill on sight and see it as their religious duty the country I'm in is a paradise.

So, in a way, hearing someone uses the fandom to express themselves as [blank] due to their environmental circumstances and not just because they wanna get off or have pretty pictures with privates showing (though no shame in that either) is just...nice, and not something that someone such as myself would have thought about due to my own environmental privilege. 

So that makes it unexpected.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Jun 21, 2020)

Raever said:


> So, in a way, hearing someone uses the fandom to express themselves as [blank] due to their environmental circumstances and not just because they wanna get off or have pretty pictures with privates showing (though no shame in that either) is just...nice, and not something that someone such as myself would have thought about due to my own environmental privilege.
> 
> So that makes it unexpected.




Now you know. You can see why I don't like it when someone pops out of the woodwork, and accuses everyone who has NSFW pieces of being an imbecile. It's the same as me saying that you're a pussy-ass bitch if you don't have nsfw art when you're older than 18. It's wrong.


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## redhusky (Jun 21, 2020)

Rimna said:


> Now you know. You can see why I don't like it when someone pops out of the woodwork, and accuses everyone who has NSFW pieces of being an imbecile. It's the same as me saying that you're a pussy-ass bitch if you don't have nsfw art when you're older than 18. It's wrong.


Agreed, I think the saying "Don't judge a book by it's cover" is very apt for this thread.


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## ConorHyena (Jun 21, 2020)

redhusky said:


> Agreed, I think the saying "Don't judge a book by it's cover" is very apt for this thread.



this little nugget of wisdom should be pinned for all eternity.


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## KimberVaile (Jun 21, 2020)

Me seeing this thread.


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## Raever (Jun 21, 2020)

KimberVaile said:


> Me seeing this thread.



Ah ~ the meme, the myth, the legend.
Here at last.


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## Simo (Jun 21, 2020)

I think one's fursona should be as sexual as a person wants.

After all---it's a wide open space to explore everything one can imagine that might be wholly impossible, variously unlikely or dangerous in real life. 

Art, fiction and role-play are boundless, open and free in comparison. One can take a character, and be as slutty as they like, and not catch a single disease. One can have a whole playroom of restraints, gadgets and kinky habiliments, and not spend a dime, even if such an outlay would be prohibitively expensive in reality. And one can do things which are wholly impossible, in reality, and share the delight of doing so with another person. On that note, it's hard to ignore how a fursona can be used in RP to interact with others in ways which are rich, symbolic, dynamic and meaningful; especially prescient in a time of social distancing.

If anything, a fursona seems _especially_ suited to the sexual. This is not to say one has to involve sexuality at all in a fursona, but crabbing on and on, and badgering others about it strikes me as sanctimonious.


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## Filter (Jun 22, 2020)

It seems to be cathartic for some. Maybe, over time, they won't feel such a need to oversexualize them.


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## Sylwings (Jun 22, 2020)

I don't think I'm oversexualizing my sona. he is an animal and part of being an animal is being sexual. 20% for me.

it doesn't have to stand in the way of everything really deep in having a character.

I agree to a degree that Sex fills too much. but it should not be banned or that those who are very sexual with their sona should not be ashamed.

perhaps it should be so that one should choose that one would like to see NSFW. instead of it being a preset in the gallery.

the internet is the most liberal there is. so we don't get around that NSFW will always be there. and it is up to the individual to make a choice. but we can do more for those who do not want to see NSFW.


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## Azeleon (Jun 22, 2020)

I have to thoroughly agree with this post.
I'm someone who's always been in the furry community for the characters and designs and arts. Character design, be it their appearance, story, personality, etc has always been a huge passion of mine and the furry community is _almost_ the perfect place for me, except for the problems you pointed out in this post, of too many sexualized characters and such.

I personally highly dislike NSFW art and honestly believe it's a huge reason why the average person has a negative view of the furry fandom as a whole, and I've come across a fair share of unwanted art and such throughout my years in the fandom.
I even so much as consider myself a "half furry" so that I don't associate with the NSFW side.
Now I'm not saying the NSFW side is all bad and horrible, like I said I personally hate NSFW content with something of a passion, but that doesn't mean I want it destroyed, I know that there are people out there that have their own preferences and that's fine by me, I just wish it wasn't so abundant and easy to find especially for the younger members of the fandom.

I've found plenty of characters out there who are extremely well written and designed, but I've also found countless characters designed purely for the sake of being "hot" and half the time they don't even have a _name_ made for them.
This is kinda my jumbled mess of an opinion, lol.


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## hara-surya (Jun 22, 2020)

Let's ignore that I don't have a fursona (my _persona_ is the woman to the left) I think you don't understand why Furries get so much hate. They really don't, to be honest, an overwhelming vast majority of people either don't know they exist and if they do they think they see them as "harmless freaks" little different from people who dress like Klingons or in Stormtrooper armor. Most of the "hate" comes from parts of the Internet known for their extremely toxic hate-focused cultures and Furries are just another "Other" group they can hate.

Besides that, it's not difficult to develop highly sexualize characters with deep, complex back stories. One of my characters named Morgan was a kink porn star, who battled drug addiction, depression and living as the survivor of child sex abuse at the hand of her older sister (and just a generally shitty family) to become reasonably wealthy (from properly investing her porn money and selling her likeness to sex toy companies) and a small-business owner (an adult website focused on artistically shot female masturbation and realistic lesbian sex). Her backstory includes growing up knowing Hara/Sara and their stories intertwine from sharing a crib well into adulthood.

For that matter, while Hara/Sara's life is far more interesting than my own, she's not terribly different than me either and mental illness, poverty and relationship trouble is as a major part of her story as it is my own. And despite her friends and wife being steeped in kink sex, she's damn near sexless and cultivates the "lesbian aunt" look, which is a change from the androgynous look she'd had since she was 11yo. (In the summer of 1990 she convinced her parents to let her get her hair cut and dyed like Annie Lennox in the mid-1980s, in the late-1990s she went for the crew cut Dolores O'Riordan look and through the 2000s just kind of looked and dressed like a skinny man: she's always identified as a woman.)


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 22, 2020)

@Azeleon (or anyone else agreeing with OP, sorry, Aze, you win on getting called out) I posed this to OP a while ago, but never got a response because they abandoned thread. Now, I know you don't like the porn, but whatever. I, however, think you're too eager to dismiss art that's pornographic as not telling a story. I know of, and have, plenty of characters that are generally depicted with their pants down, but in ways that tells a lot. You seem to have made the same mistake OP did - a lack of writing does not mean a lack of character. You can glean a ton from even one piece of art, assuming the details are there. 

So, say we have art of a man and a woman banging in a locker room during the day. Well, damn, they're already playing with fire doing that so we know they're risk takers. Also none of this looks forced, so they probably know and like each other. Looks like a men's locker room, so we can probably conclude she's the bolder one. Ah, no wonder, she's in roller derby - those are skates on the ground in a bag that looks like hers - the color scheme matches her fur. And he's clearly an athlete too - look at those glutes. There's an open locker with some boxing gloves hanging down, so might be able to guess he's a boxer, or maybe MMA. So, we have two strong athletes who either have a particularly good relationship with this gym owner _or_ they just don't care about getting caught. Probably then conclude they have a cocky, punk attitude. They're probably good too - super fit, not a ton of signs of injury. You'd expect a bandage or two from roller derby anyhow unless they're good at staying on their feet.

Now, everything I put their involves details that would need to be in the picture, but at the same point a bag or two and an open locker in a locker room isn't all that much to draw. If you're already doing a full background, this is not a stretch to assume someone who cares would put all that. But you can build a lot about a character from just one picture. A series might let you work out the relationships and other info. A different one might show the dude completely strapped up. Well, that might drive the idea she's the dominant one in the relationship further. This is all in visual storytelling, not writing. This told far more information than a picture of the two just standing around in some beat up jeans. And it was also porn. 

So, are you sure there's no storytelling in porn, or are you not seeing it? If you're complaining you have to wade through a literal sea of dicks to learn a character, well, I might recommend wearing eye protection. That's not going away. If you're complaining there's too much porn without story, well, "draw better art" is hardly an opinion. Everyone's going to agree to that.

Personally, I think there's a lot of SFW art and all that, but it gets buried because sex sells. Personally, I think anyone (outside the fandom) giving furries shit for their porn oughtta check themselves. Don't see why furry porn is wrong, but hentai or even real porn is fine. In the end, it's all porn.


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## hara-surya (Jun 22, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> @AzeleonSo, are you sure there's no storytelling in porn, or are you not seeing it?



FWIW, these days real life porn rarely has a story and if it does it's 2 minutes of pretense to get to 30 minutes of sex.

Some time in the late-1980s, when tape based video production got cheap, cameras got smaller and the market opened up because of home VHS, producers didn't need the pretense of a full movie to have a production budget and by the early-2000s with near-instant feedback on videos thanks to the Internet they realized what print porn had known for decades - people don't buy Playboy for the articles and people don't watch a porn video for the story. So, for the most part, they stopped trying to tell a story beyond what it would take to fulfill certain storyline-based kinks, i.e. Pseudo-incest, random pickup, casting couch, D/s, etc.

Having said that, I think a lot of visual Furry smut has more story behind it simply because the artist is rarely thinking "I'm paying these people $2,000 to have sex in this locker room set" and more "my characters, who I have some level of emotional attachment to, are having sex in the locker room in the gym they go to."


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## redhusky (Jun 22, 2020)

Azeleon said:


> I personally highly dislike NSFW art and honestly believe it's a huge reason why the average person has a negative view of the furry fandom as a whole, and I've come across a fair share of unwanted art and such throughout my years in the fandom.


I think this sentence stands out the most and @Rimna said it the best:
"I don't care what the outsider's perception of the fandom is. People will see what they want to see. If they truly cared, then they'd do their research. It is not my job to convince them of anything."

This is one of those things where you need to stop worrying about what others think and find your own enjoyment otherwise your experience will be spoiled regardless what you do.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 22, 2020)

hara-surya said:


> FWIW, these days real life porn rarely has a story and if it does it's 2 minutes of pretense to get to 30 minutes of sex.
> 
> [Snip]
> 
> Having said that, I think a lot of visual Furry smut has more story behind it simply because the artist is rarely thinking "I'm paying these people $2,000 to have sex in this locker room set" and more "my characters, who I have some level of emotional attachment to, are having sex in the locker room in the gym they go to."



You do have a point that modern porn is a lot more about getting to the action than telling a story.

And yeah, even if its not communicated explicitly and clearly, the artist could probably explain how they got there, if asked. The short answer is I don't generally put long descriptions unless I've decided I need to put some sort of inane trivia in it, because who reads it? I try to be Brilliant, Brief and Gone.

In my description above, I'd consider this enough to tell a reasonably complete story:

"Minerva was going to shower in her locker room, but Felix was looking a bit pent up working out so she figured he wouldn't mind if she paid him a visit. It's not like anyone's around who cares, and if they do, well, they can always join."

Does this explain everything? No. But that's also a bit of the point. 12 paragraphs of explaining how they knew each other wouldn't add much for most people.

In this day and age of wikis, we forget that some times, the unknown is what makes a character interesting. Boba Fett was awesome because he was mysterious. He had like 5 lines and a beef with Han Solo, and that was basically all we got, but it was enough to cement him as an awesome character. A lack of explanation for everything is not, necessarily, a bad thing. It pays to leave stuff to the imagination.


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## hara-surya (Jun 22, 2020)

redhusky said:


> I think this sentence stands out the most and @RimnaThis is one of those things where you need to stop worrying about what others think and find your own enjoyment otherwise your experience will be spoiled regardless what you do.



To me, this is something that applies to life in general. Too many people worry so much about what others think of them that they make their lives - and other people's lives - miserable and don't even realize they're doing it.


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## hara-surya (Jun 22, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> You do have a point that modern porn is a lot more about getting to the action than telling a story.
> 
> And yeah, even if its not communicated explicitly and clearly, the artist could probably explain how they got there, if asked. The short answer is I don't generally put long descriptions unless I've decided I need to put some sort of inane trivia in it, because who reads it? I try to be Brilliant, Brief and Gone.
> 
> ...



I agree that most people don't want to read 12 paragraphs attached to a picture, but a few sentences building a narrative can work well. There's quite a few 3D comic artists who frame their comics with only a single image per page with a couple sentences of text underneath it. (I don't think you see that style so much with drawn art because of technical limitations to 3D renders.) I've written a running series of dialog on my pictures and gotten comments about how much it adds to the pictures, so YMMV.


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## Azeleon (Jun 22, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> @Azeleon (or anyone else agreeing with OP, sorry, Aze, you win on getting called out) I posed this to OP a while ago, but never got a response because they abandoned thread. Now, I know you don't like the porn, but whatever. I, however, think you're too eager to dismiss art that's pornographic as not telling a story. I know of, and have, plenty of characters that are generally depicted with their pants down, but in ways that tells a lot. You seem to have made the same mistake OP did - a lack of writing does not mean a lack of character. You can glean a ton from even one piece of art, assuming the details are there.
> 
> So, say we have art of a man and a woman banging in a locker room during the day. Well, damn, they're already playing with fire doing that so we know they're risk takers. Also none of this looks forced, so they probably know and like each other. Looks like a men's locker room, so we can probably conclude she's the bolder one. Ah, no wonder, she's in roller derby - those are skates on the ground in a bag that looks like hers - the color scheme matches her fur. And he's clearly an athlete too - look at those glutes. There's an open locker with some boxing gloves hanging down, so might be able to guess he's a boxer, or maybe MMA. So, we have two strong athletes who either have a particularly good relationship with this gym owner _or_ they just don't care about getting caught. Probably then conclude they have a cocky, punk attitude. They're probably good too - super fit, not a ton of signs of injury. You'd expect a bandage or two from roller derby anyhow unless they're good at staying on their feet.
> 
> ...


You definitely make a good point there, and I guess I might be a bit too harsh with my opinion, but to be frank, I guess I don't notice much story or time put into NSFW pieces because I simply dislike NSFW content and don't care to see it. Sounds unfair, and it probably is, but everyone's got their tastes and preferences.
Now it's totally okay of others like it though, I'm not stopping them. I'm sure there are plenty of NSFW pieces out there that tell a greater story than a SFW piece.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 22, 2020)

I'm not here to convince you to like the porn. I'm not even sure how I'd do that if I wanted to. Send you all the best (gay?) porn artists? 

It sounds to me your complaint is routed in porn gets too much attention and buries the SFW art. I'd offer that the solution to that isn't to complain about too much porn, but rather push for better SFW art. Unfortunately, a lot of the SFW I see is just as, if not more vapid, than a lot of the porn. And when it comes down to it, if you take two equally bland pictures, but one is NSFW and the other is SFW, the former will win out.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 22, 2020)

Oh hey, I come back to this thread again...



Ziggy Schlacht said:


> It sounds to me your complaint is routed in porn gets too much attention and buries the SFW art. I'd offer that the solution to that isn't to complain about too much porn, but rather push for better SFW art. Unfortunately, a lot of the SFW I see is just as, if not more vapid, than a lot of the porn. And when it comes down to it, if you take two equally bland pictures, but one is NSFW and the other is SFW, the former will win out.



I'm kind of curious as to what you'd consider to be vapid in SFW art. Not because I want to downplay anything, but because I want to compare something...

Essentially, what I tend to find about a lot SFW art that isn't fetishy in nature is that it either tends to lack in visual storytelling or, as in my case, it just feels like a glorified character render that an animator or artist would use while creating a cartoon or comic.


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## rekcerW (Jun 23, 2020)

The thing about being a furry, is that if you call yourself a furry, then you're officially a furry regardless of anything...

I get that it's aggravating to think about the fandom being associated with the actions of questionable individuals by ignorant people, but there's no kind of PSA you can put out or whatever the intention of this post may be to change that.

You'd have a better chance arguing with a brick wall.


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## Purplefuzz (Jun 23, 2020)

rekcerW said:


> I get that it's aggravating to think about the fandom being associated with the actions of questionable individuals by ignorant people, but there's no kind of PSA you can put out or whatever the intention of this post may be to change that.



The only cringe i see is furs being baited by people dumb enough that 18+ anthro art is too much but other 18+ fantasy art is suddenly okay or gets a pass.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Jun 23, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> I'm kind of curious as to what you'd consider to be vapid in SFW art. Not because I want to downplay anything, but because I want to compare something....



A dude in jeans and a T shirt on a flat background doesn't tell you much more than a dude with his sausage out on a flat background. Or hell, the same picture, but one has junk the other is smooth cartoon style. To put it this way - what would be a boring porn picture doesn't suddenly become deep and profound because they put pants on.

Edit: totally took the wrong part of your quote.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 23, 2020)

Purplefuzz said:


> The only cringe i see is furs being baited by people dumb enough that 18+ anthro art is too much but other 18+ fantasy art is suddenly okay or gets a pass.



Ah yes, the whole Werewolf/Anthro Wolf paradox. As far as I'm concerned, finding anything other than just humans and elves attractive already puts you in the furry tent. Orcs, trolls, goblins, naga, draenei, na'vi, tw'lek (whatever it's spelled as), etc... 



Ziggy Schlacht said:


> A dude in jeans and a T shirt on a flat background doesn't tell you much more than a dude with his sausage out on a flat background. Or hell, the same picture, but one has junk the other is smooth cartoon style. To put it this way - what would be a boring porn picture doesn't suddenly become deep and profound because they put pants on.



Very much makes sense to me.


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## Purplefuzz (Jun 24, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> Ah yes, the whole Werewolf/Anthro Wolf paradox. As far as I'm concerned, finding anything other than just humans and elves attractive already puts you in the furry tent. Orcs, trolls, goblins, naga, draenei, na'vi, tw'lek (whatever it's spelled as), etc...



Get's worse when they stop replying when anthro media before the 80s is posted?. Killing that one claim the Something awful guys made how furries started in 2000.


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## BlackDragonAJ89 (Jun 24, 2020)

Purplefuzz said:


> Get's worse when they stop replying when anthro media before the 80s is posted?. Killing that one claim the Something awful guys made how furries started in 2000.



If you get your ass kicked in a boxing match against Uwe Bowl, you have no authority or power as a comedian. The fact that the top editor of Something Awful got hilariously owned by the bumbling director years ago should tell you how Something Awful is all bark and no bite.


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## Purplefuzz (Jun 24, 2020)

BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> If you get your ass kicked in a boxing match against Uwe Bowl, you have no authority or power as a comedian. The fact that the top editor of Something Awful got hilariously owned by the bumbling director years ago should tell you how Something Awful is all bark and no bite.



The SA staff are dumb assholes, He had a meltdown when Reddit/twitter/more got so big that SA forums is forgotten artifact by site standards.


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## zidders (Jun 25, 2020)

I'll make my character as hot as I want to, thanks. It's my character. If you're judging people negatively because they enjoy adult content and prefer their character look sexy they're not the one with the issue-you are. Besides, OP-you have no idea how much background people have put into those sexy characters or anything about what led them to enjoying that representation.

It's just more sex-negative gatekeepy BS.


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## Toasty9399 (Jun 25, 2020)

_screams into thread
*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*_


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## Purplefuzz (Jun 26, 2020)

zidders said:


> I'll make my character as hot as I want to, thanks. It's my character. If you're judging people negatively because they enjoy adult content and prefer their character look sexy they're not the one with the issue-you are. Besides, OP-you have no idea how much background people have put into those sexy characters or anything about what led them to enjoying that representation.
> 
> It's just more sex-negative gatekeepy BS.



Truth, It one of the dumbest things going around online. Not just OP but you get non furs that make wonder if they skipped sex ED, Because even as a dude it gross that a fit D cup women = unrealistic anime girl. Then when their called out it becomes clear why their single not because of any high standards. 

While others take pride shaming them while having audacity to cry why sex/nudity in the US is a instant NC - 17?. lol


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## Deleted member 127940 (Jun 26, 2020)

Furries: "If we want to sexy up our characters, then so what? These are _our _characters! Stop being sex-negative!"

Also furries: "OuR FaNd0M IsN't oVEr-sExeD aT alL! iT's AlL A bIg MiSConcEptIon!"


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## Deleted member 82554 (Jun 26, 2020)

Question: can I oversexualise your fursona? Because that would be tops. I also love me a _Bad Dragon_. (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


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## Jojer (Jun 26, 2020)

Everyone has their own level of cringe. That space in your mind where you might identify with the group but not “those” people. Posts like this have been going on since furry was a thing. Anyone remember the Burn Furs movement from the 2000’s?

Burned Furs - WikiFur, the furry encyclopedia

I dunno. If you’re focusing hard on the things you’re seeing that keep bothering you, flip that SFW switch. It’s not perfect, but it will give you a break from it. Places like Furry Amino are SFW and full of non-sexual art if that’s what you’re into. You just gotta put in the work of tailoring you’re experience.


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## Filter (Jun 26, 2020)

redhusky said:


> I think this sentence stands out the most and @Rimna said it the best:
> "I don't care what the outsider's perception of the fandom is. People will see what they want to see. If they truly cared, then they'd do their research. It is not my job to convince them of anything."
> 
> This is one of those things where you need to stop worrying about what others think and find your own enjoyment otherwise your experience will be spoiled regardless what you do.


Agreed. Have fun. Create stuff, commission stuff, whatever. Enjoy what you enjoy. Don't feel like you need to explain or defend what others may or may not be into.

People will see whatever they want to see. Especially when they have some kind of bias. Kind of like the people who think all popular music is about drugs. They'll find/imagine drug references wherever they look, regardless of what the song is actually about. If they actually cared to know the truth, they could find it easily enough.



BlackDragonAJ89 said:


> ... or, as in my case, it just feels like a glorified character render that an animator or artist would use while creating a cartoon or comic.


That might describe most furry art, now that you mention it. Not like that's necessarily a bad thing, though. At least not to me. I still see lots of potential in these glorified character renders, regardless of whether a cartoon or comic eventually is made.


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## redhusky (Jun 27, 2020)

Jojer said:


> Anyone remember the Burn Furs movement from the 2000’s?


NO! CRINGE FLASHBACKS!


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## Troj (Jun 27, 2020)

Sexuality is absolutely a part of someone's "story"--yes, even if they're asexual! 

A fursona can provide an outlet for exploring one's sexual identity and/or sexual preferences; for expressing unattainable, impractical, or wildly fantastical sexual desires or fantasies; and for strengthening one's own self-esteem and self-worth by imagining and embodying a "better self."

A fursona can absolutely have a fully-developed backstory, a three-dimensional personality, and a love of giant cock. Sexuality doesn't diminish or negate the complexity of a fictional character _or_ a real person.  

Mind you, I don't get people who can't seem to get _enough_ porn of their fursona--especially when it always revolves around the same scenario or kink--as I'd tend to think that'd get boring after a while. But, to each their own. 

I also have my own opinions (informed by research and anecdotes) when it comes to more effective vs. less effective ways to "use" your fursona in your life--but, again, to each their own, and you do you, boo.


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## Filter (Jun 27, 2020)

Random thoughts:

Part of the appeal is that these characters can have human-like sexuality (including asexuality if that's your thing). This doesn't necessarily imply oversexualization, however. NSFW =/= oversexualization. Or at least it doesn't have to, unless you think any hint of sexuality is too much. There's a difference between liking glam pinups, or thinking of one's self as a sexy beast, and using a character as little more than a kink prop.


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## Toasty9399 (Mar 7, 2021)

YuppieYumi said:


> Ugh...no not really...


aye necroing a dead thread


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## Zehlua (Mar 21, 2021)

I am just tired of sex in general, honestly. Like, is this it? I've never felt more unfulfilled about anything before. There was so much build-up, and it's supposed to be The Best Thing EVER! But honestly? No. Now it just makes me feel disappointed, like everything else.

At what point am I going to feel... y'know... satisfied? Content? What's it going to take? Is everything being sold to me not going to work for me? Just how "other" am I, really, and if I accept myself, am I going to be alone? Is there no role in any relationship that suits me?

Sex feels like everyone else is having fun laughing at jokes from a specific comedian, and the comedian's face and material is everywhere, and he's a meme, and all this and a bag of chips, but I'm alienated for not finding him funny or interesting. Yes, I have tried him out. I thought the stage he performed on and the music as he was coming onstage and the advertising and hype and his choice of wardrobe was so much more interesting than the performance itself. Wonderful theatrics to sell me a product that is so tragically lackluster, that makes me feel so insane for even declaring it as such.

I can do better comedy at home, by myself, but it's weird to just be alone and laugh at your own jokes. It also sucks that I can say and do the things that make other people laugh, but no one can make me laugh.

To break away from the metaphor here; it's so horrible to be seen as sexy when you've totally lost the desire for sex. It sucks so much. That's why I avoid horny art and RP and stuff now. It only makes me feel disappointed. The other person is so into it, and it's not fair that I can't feel what they're feeling.

What's worse, once I satisfy someone, foreplay is out the window for nearly all subsequent encounters. It's climaxes on demand from there on out. Which is even. More. Sucky.

I feel so alone no matter how many people are around me, no matter who I'm dating. I also can't find the exact words to express these feelings to anyone in a way that fully makes sense to them. It's a profoundly bad nightmare that doesn't stop, where all of a sudden nothing makes sense and nothing feels right. You're trying to make all the right choices, but something is wrong. Maybe that something is you. Nothing is certain and you're just moving unattached through crowds of strangers in an unfamiliar place, and you feel insane for admitting that what you feel is loneliness. You have a partner who loves you, and you love them, but you slowly realize how much you don't know each other. He doesn't tell you about his life, and you aren't asking each other enough questions. 

You desperately want questions. You want someone who isn't a crazy narcissist to show INTEREST in you. You want interested, open-ended questions, so badly. You want to learn and educate. But there is no curiosity from the people around you. You don't know your own family, your own partner, and sometimes not even yourself. 

I want to be fun and horny and alive again, but I feel like I'm dying.


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## Pomorek (Mar 21, 2021)

Zehlua said:


> I am just tired of sex in general, honestly. Like, is this it? I've never felt more unfulfilled about anything before. There was so much build-up, and it's supposed to be The Best Thing EVER! But honestly? No. Now it just makes me feel disappointed, like everything else.
> 
> At what point am I going to feel... y'know... satisfied? Content? What's it going to take? Is everything being sold to me not going to work for me? Just how "other" am I, really, and if I accept myself, am I going to be alone? Is there no role in any relationship that suits me?
> 
> ...



It's a difficult matter and I may not have any particular words of wisdom to help with. But know that you have my support and sympathy. My own situations have been different, but still, what you describe feels somehow relatable. I also want to let you know that it is possible to get into the place in life, where you have someone not only to _ask questions and be asked_, but to _get to the core of things together_. Intellectually and otherwise. And it has happened to me even despite the fact that I've had given up on relationships at that point (I even had a serious fallout with my future wife, before we eventually got back together!). What it required of me wasn't even anything extraordinary, but the time and patience, and a lot of it (and being a decent person too). So I guess that's the harder part, things happen while they can and it's not always possible to hurry them up. But keep your faith and hope, I did it so you can too.


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## Tendo64 (Mar 21, 2021)

So, even this thread was necro'd for some reason, I'd like to say my piece because I saw this thread in 2020 and didn't reply due to my age at the time.

If people want to "oversexualize" their fursonas, that's their business. People are going to hate furries regardless of whether or not there's porn, first of all; they hate us because we don't conform to what's "normal" and possibly also a large amount of us are LGBT--the NSFW is just one of the various excuses they use. Second of all, it's not really their problem if people get mad about it. Why should people stop doing what they like doing just because some weird neckbeard is like "furree bad" when it's THOSE people who need to stop getting their panties in a twist over furries existing in peace? I've always hated the notion that furries should be expected to try to "fit in" more, it sounds victim-blamey.

There's also the fact that some people don't really... want... deep characters? Most of my characters don't have NSFW but most aren't deep either because they don't need to be. They're simple and cute and they make me happy, and that's all they need to be. Some people are in the furry fandom just for the smut? Welp, good for them. And besides that, a character can be deep _and _NSFW. A character having a lot to them and having a lot of NSFW aspects are not mutually exclusive.


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## Pomorek (Mar 21, 2021)

Tendo64 said:


> There's also the fact that some people don't really... want... deep characters? Most of my characters don't have NSFW but most aren't deep either because they don't need to be. They're simple and cute and they make me happy, and that's all they need to be. Some people are in the furry fandom just for the smut? Welp, good for them. And besides that, a character can be deep _and _NSFW. A character having a lot to them and having a lot of NSFW aspects are not mutually exclusive.


Agreed. I probably said this earlier more than once, but I treat my characters somewhat like a photographer's models, posing for art. I don't feel a need to figure out all bits and pieces of their lives. At most some very general personality description, and that's it. And even if I was more into storytelling in text, I find writing long, detailed bios to be excessive. Of course, if someone finds fun in doing those things, go ahead, but it's beside the point to _require_ this from others. 

And yeah, I don't see either how NSFW and deep, detailed characterization would be mutually exclusive.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Mar 21, 2021)

I see this thread is just as sexy and active as ever. And since my characters are basically an extension of me and I am horny as shit, they are going to be oversexualised like hell. That's what we call a deal with it moment.


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## Yakamaru (Mar 21, 2021)

It's their characters, so I don't really see the point in getting upset over how someone else treats *their *character(s.)


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## HarlandWolf (Mar 21, 2021)

Zehlua said:


> I am just tired of sex in general, honestly. Like, is this it? I've never felt more unfulfilled about anything before. There was so much build-up, and it's supposed to be The Best Thing EVER! But honestly? No. Now it just makes me feel disappointed, like everything else.
> 
> At what point am I going to feel... y'know... satisfied? Content? What's it going to take? Is everything being sold to me not going to work for me? Just how "other" am I, really, and if I accept myself, am I going to be alone? Is there no role in any relationship that suits me?
> 
> ...


If I may, though I'm new, hoping I don't overstep my bounds here, but I just want to say that what you said makes me want to give you a supportive hug.

HUG!!!

I may not be eloquent and have the big words to help you, but I hope that in time you'll be able to find what you're looking for. It may be difficult to find, but don't give up all hope. There's many people I've seen that have given up on finding what they search for, but then they find it eventually. Usually in the last place and time they expected. Just do your best to keep that ember of hope alive. Cup it in your hand and keep it safe. I think it'll be worth it in the end. You're someone special just like anyone of us, and we all have our trials and tribulations we got to go through in life, and we're all pulling for you.

HUG!!!

Just do your best to keep a smile on your face and your head up. The sun always shines with a new day of possibilities. Just keep hope.


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## HarlandWolf (Mar 21, 2021)

Live and let live is my opinion. Everybody has their own lives and their own ways they want to deal with it. Some want it clean, some want it dark. No one has the right to judge how a person lives their character's lives, as long as it doesn't spill over onto other people that don't appreciate it. That's why this community is so amazing. The diversity. You'll always find the kind of groups that you're looking for. All of us may be different, but we all try to find others with a kindred spirit & mind to be around. That's what helps us feel appreciated and not alone in this world. I believe the whole point of being furry is the expression of the part of our self that we keep hidden, or wish that we could be, and living that part that we long deny ourself, whether clean or dark, in an appropriate setting, around others who understand.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 21, 2021)

You'll find my characters are actually rather prude, even for designated characters like Scylla and Ophelia who are the frisky ones. Most of my characters wear clothing too. A very broad and uninformed generalization here.


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## ConorHyena (Mar 21, 2021)

Oversexualisation is part of my sergal's character design.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 21, 2021)

I also would like to add that I have a story where characters are killed off by one another or are sniped in the head or hit by artillery shells. If you would read my story you'd find that it is not NSFW in the way the furry fandom thinks, it's a bunch of war stories. A lot of characters just randomly have kids and nobody knows who their husband/wife, or I just never depicted it. My stories are meant for action and the grim reality of war.


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 21, 2021)

I don't particularly care what people want to do with their own fursonas, that's totally their business.  I've had some more mature art done of my character, just for fun, because she has a sensual side and I like to see how artists express that.  However, I won't consent to allowing other people to use my character in the same way, with very few exceptions.  Experience has taught me that there are people in the fandom who are more interested in their own stimulation, than respecting other people or their characters.

The key concept here is consent.  Use your character as you want.

When it comes to involving another person's characters, you only do so with the consent of that character's owner.  

Meaning, you ask them FIRST, before commissioning the art, before writing a story, especially if it's NSFW, fetish stuff.  

You don't do it first and then apologize later when they confront you because you didn't ask for permission.

And if they tell you "no," they owe you no further explanation.


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## TemetNosce88 (Mar 21, 2021)

Two of my characters exist solely to be sexualized. The other two are developing personalities and are only sexualized most of the time.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 21, 2021)

Ironically enough, Ophelia who is mostly seen in her dress is one of the most physically popular based on polls on Deviantart.


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## TyraWadman (Mar 21, 2021)

Zehlua said:


> I am just tired of sex in general, honestly. Like, is this it? I've never felt more unfulfilled about anything before. There was so much build-up, and it's supposed to be The Best Thing EVER! But honestly? No. Now it just makes me feel disappointed, like everything else.
> 
> At what point am I going to feel... y'know... satisfied? Content? What's it going to take? Is everything being sold to me not going to work for me? Just how "other" am I, really, and if I accept myself, am I going to be alone? Is there no role in any relationship that suits me?
> 
> ...



I don't know the full story of your relationship or if its long distance or local, or what your SO's personality is like. Perhaps your gut has picked up on a red flag that you've been in denial about. Maybe you were like me, and tried to convince yourself that everything was fine and that things will/would work out despite that ONE thing. Or maybe he's just a really simple (but nice) guy that can't meet any of your other needs.  

Maybe this isn't the perfect word for it, but... are you looking for a partner that has* Ambition*? Someone that is motivated/engaged? They might not be the richest or most successful, but for me, as long as they're actively trying and not just... letting themselves sit in the rut for the rest of their life. I definitely don't want someone super motivated though, because that screams 'extremist' and I don't want to deal with anymore psychos.

My ex definitely had low ambition. He quit his $22/hr PSW job even though it was mostly overnights where he sat on the client's couch, reading his tablet or gaming until they needed help getting up to use the bathroom. Anything that involved going out was a chore, even if it was grabbing takeout. Initiating sex was just grabbing at my body instead of making sure I didn't have a shitty day at work first. I would go out of my way to surprise him during holidays, even thought I didn't have to. I'd always grab him some of his favorite goodies and fast food now and again because I knew he loved it/could use a little boost. He couldn't even remember I liked ketchup on my cheeseburger after 4 years. He couldn't be bothered to walk across the road and grab me some supplies when I was sick in bed. My ex was a cunt. Not saying yours is even remotely as bad as my experience, but I definitely couldn't settle for that mess.

I see you've tried communicating this with your partner. Do you think they don't understand because they are trying to be dismissive of your needs? Or do you genuinely believe they are confused? Maybe this could be the part where you teach your partner to please you and do it right. Maybe you can talk tough and tell him to 'reciprocate for once!'. Maybe couples therapy. Or maybe it's time to look for someone new. :[ 

*You're not crazy. *Feeling lost and confused doesn't make you crazy and having different interests/standards doesn't mean you're a problem. *There is nothing wrong with wanting more*, as long as you're willing to work for it. *Whether you decide to stay with them or move on is okay.* The point of dating, after all, is to see where your values line up and if you're compatible or not. Though sad, there is no shame in breaking it off. If your mind is screaming for answers, then the only way you can find your answers is by laying it all out on the table with your S.O, or exploring your options. You might worry that you're making a mistake by leaving or staying, but even if it were, you're one step closer to knowing just what it is you want/expect from your significant other.

[I've revised this several times so I apologize if I confuse you, I just want you to know that you aren't alone! D:<]


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## Rayd (Mar 22, 2021)

oh wow its the thread i got my signature from, hello.


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Mar 22, 2021)

Oh hey, someone brought back the ol classic.

Funny thing is I recently got something that somewhat sexualised my fursona, which is a nice summer piece. Excluding the vore pieces.


But ima leave it as “It’s my fursona and I get to decide what art I want him in!”
Since not at computer to make the meme, sorry guys.


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## Raever (Mar 22, 2021)

To be fair, I might not have a lot of NSFW pieces _now_ (I think I have one? Maybe two?) but for those who tend to get bucket loads of art regularly done...eventually, you start running out of SFW ideas or hit an inspirational slump. I can see why someone would choose to just throw everything to the walls and dive into NSFW as a change of pace until more inspiration happens for worldbuilding. I've certainly considered getting more NSFW art...I just usually don't want it or can't justify it after outlining the idea and going back to it later for review. If I don't want something for longer than a day, chances are I won't pay for it, and NSFW art just seems to be that sort of "impulsive buy" for me.

Maybe some people spend time really fleshing it out, adding character details and settings, and maybe the lack of that is why I struggle to stick with any NSFW ideas (that and, I have had a few Furs oversexualize my character in gift art after I explicitly expressed that I do not want that...or they borderline beg for NSFW collabs) but no matter what the reason is, I think that NSFW has it's place, and whether I think the community can be oversexualized doesn't play into my acceptance level for sexual content. I can believe that the Furry community is viewed as overly sexual _and_ appreciate all artwork for what it is. The two don't have to be seperate.


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## pilgrimfromoblivion (Mar 22, 2021)

i guess since we're corpseraping this thread might as well as join in hi everyone


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 22, 2021)

pilgrimfromoblivion said:


> i guess since we're corpseraping this thread might as well as join in hi everyone


Stop oversexualizing forum threads!


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## Raever (Mar 22, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Stop oversexualizing forum threads!



I can't help it, some threads look real nice in a maid outfit.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 22, 2021)

Raever said:


> I can't help it, some threads look real nice in a maid outfit.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 22, 2021)

And you see this is why furries get the reputation.


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## Deleted member 134556 (Mar 22, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> View attachment 105361


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## Hogo (Mar 22, 2021)

There are a lot of furries for whom it's mostly sexual because they identify with anthro art because they're sexually attracted to animalistic features but prefer it on an anthro package. Aside from this, I think we shouldn't forget there's a lot of over sexualization in modern culture and that contributes to the SFW anthro stuff still sexualized in design. Fursonas are also quite often idealized.

Where it gets complicated is the history of tying people who are interested in anthropomorphism to fetishists because of the fetishism exists and isn't ever going away. Frail people who use othering to make themselves feel less insecure cherry pick something about a group of people to try and make them feel inferior for being who they are or what they believe or enjoy. Ranges from race, religion, nationality, disability, sexuality, hobbyism/subculture, or even personality and behavior. Especially with hobbyism, subculture, and behavior people feel justified in shaming because it's something you have a choice in.

I think "anthro enthusiast" is a better term than "furry" and it also seems less attached to the old misunderstanding in non-internet-saavy society that a furry is someone who dresses up in a fursuit and has sex. But "furry" is far too ingrained at this point and follows a subculture naming formula (emo, goth, etc).

Tl;dr: live with it?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 22, 2021)

Hogo said:


> There are a lot of furries for whom it's mostly sexual because they identify with anthro art because they're sexually attracted to animalistic features but prefer it on an anthro package. Aside from this, I think we shouldn't forget there's a lot of over sexualization in modern culture and that contributes to the SFW anthro stuff still sexualized in design. Fursonas are also quite often idealized.
> 
> Where it gets complicated is the history of tying people who are interested in anthropomorphism to fetishists because of the fetishism exists and isn't ever going away. Frail people who use othering to make themselves feel less insecure cherry pick something about a group of people to try and make them feel inferior for being who they are or what they believe or enjoy. Ranges from race, religion, nationality, disability, sexuality, hobbyism/subculture, or even personality and behavior. Especially with hobbyism, subculture, and behavior people feel justified in shaming because it's something you have a choice in.
> 
> ...



As a dog owner, no I don't "live with it". My characters have human features that are attractive because I like human women. If you're getting off to literal animal parts you're no better than that Kero person. There is a line you should never cross. You are homo sapien, you should be attracted to completely developed and mature homo sapien parts.


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## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> As a dog owner, no I don't "live with it". My characters have human features that are attractive because I like human women. If you're getting off to literal animal parts you're no better than that Kero person. There is a line you should never cross. You are homo sapien, you should be attracted to completely developed and mature homo sapien parts.


I'll use dog willies as an example because it seems to be the most popular thing in anthro art.

I've noticed that anthro dog parts look much different from real dog parts. I'm not a fan of dog willies in anthro art. I always prefer human or tentacle willies... or alien willies. But yeah, sometimes for commissions, I gotta draw dog willies. I had to google them so I could get a good reference for the anatomy. Real dog willies are fucking gross. They are absolutely repulsive. They look like rotting meat.

My point is, dog willies in anthro art never look realistic. They always look like some bad dragon toy had been implanted into their groin. I don't think you can equate liking the shape and function of a dog willie in anthro art to someone being a zoophile. Like I said, the art and the real thing look very different. I do not think everyone into knots is some creepy dog-loving zoophile.

I'm sure many here like animal genitalia depicted in anthro art for its function and anatomical accuracy to their character. Liking animal parts on an anthro character that walks and talks like us is far removed from some four-legged, voiceless animal that cannot consent. Please don't be THAT person. You are making a very damaging assumption about a lot of people.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I'll use dog willies as an example because it seems to be the most popular thing in anthro art.
> 
> I've noticed that anthro dog parts look much different from real dog parts. I'm not a fan of dog willies in anthro art. I always prefer human or tentacle willies... or alien willies. But yeah, sometimes for commissions, I gotta draw dog willies. I had to google them so I could get a good reference for the anatomy. Real dog willies are fucking gross. They are absolutely repulsive. They look like rotting meat.
> 
> ...



I care not for how people do it in a style that is "totally not actual". My characters have tits and willies, like humans. The mere fact anyone is even considering drawing them non-human at all is concerning.  Then again, my characters shoot guns, fly ships, and get jiggy with it in the bed. I care not how people justify it, you are human, you should be into human sexual parts. If you're not, it's concerning.


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## GentleButter (Mar 23, 2021)

oof the kinkshaming is real in this thread.


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## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

GentleButter said:


> oof the kinkshaming is real in this thread.


Yep.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

GentleButter said:


> oof the kinkshaming is real in this thread.



Yes, I hold people accountable to basic societal standards, especially in regards to the potential threat of beastality. Do realize that I see this as something normal people don't converse about, you shouldn't have to give excuses at all why you're into anything that deviates from natural mainstream human reproductive organs.


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## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Ah so we also conflate having anthro sentient beings that have 'knots' and such to a threat of "beastiality".
And basic societal standards? those are things that always change with the times, say we get some batman beyond type bio engineering and we can splice our DNA like the splicers. Would standards not change as more people take on animal features through this or would we try and stay stagnated and not allow progress of people having the freedom of their body? Or if say some extra terrestrial beings come and they come from a line where evolution gave thumbs to and favored many species of animals and it is like planet Beastars? would that also be a taboo?


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Yes, I hold people accountable to basic societal standards, especially in regards to the potential threat of beastality. Do realize that I see this as something normal people don't converse about, you shouldn't have to give excuses at all why you're into anything that deviates from natural mainstream human reproductive organs.


If this is your view on things like knots I can’t wait to see what you say about vore.
“These people are potential cannibals in the making!!!”


I hate the idea of people doing beastality as much as the next guy, but I wouldn’t go out and say people who like any other dicks that aren’t human are beastality threats.


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## quoting_mungo (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Yes, I hold people accountable to basic societal standards, especially in regards to the potential threat of beastality. Do realize that I see this as something normal people don't converse about, you shouldn't have to give excuses at all why you're into anything that deviates from natural mainstream human reproductive organs.


You shouldn’t have to give excuses, no. Because it’s not something that needs excused. Goodness gracious!

It’s okay to prefer human-style junk on your anthro characters. If people deliberately draw your OCs with the wrong junk they’re assholes. But walk into any sex shop and you’ll find plenty of socially acceptable (to the degree that sex and sex toys are at all) toys that don’t all look like human reproductive organs. 

If it’s fictional genitalia on someone’s fictional self-representation (since FAIK that’s the most common use of “fursona” and that’s what the thread is about), its existence/design is endangering exactly zero animals. Far as I’m concerned any objection to bestiality that isn’t based on harm coming to the animal through the practice is... dubious. Sounds more like moralizing (a close friend of kinkshaming) to me.


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## Deleted member 134556 (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Yes, I hold people accountable to basic societal standards, especially in regards to the potential threat of beastality. Do realize that I see this as something normal people don't converse about, you shouldn't have to give excuses at all why you're into anything that deviates from natural mainstream human reproductive organs.


Okay, I'm going to be more direct, but don't mistake this as aggression please.

There is a very vast distance between sometimes incorporating nsfw elements in fictional cartoon animals and being sexually attracted to your neighbors dog. I don't think I have to elaborate on this further, considering mungo and a few others have explained it well, but I'm stepping in because I feel your argument about morality and standards is rather flawed. If you believe furry pornography is a legitimate issue with modern society we should be concerned about (in this case that you believe it's going to lead to beastiality), I suggest you step back and take a look at the world in the big picture, and also ask yourself why you are on a furry forum, socializing with furries, to begin with (considering you have stated several times in the past that you are not a furry yourself ._. ).

Lastly, I would recommend thinking before comparing anyone here to Kero of all people. That's a pretty wild comparison.


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## HarlandWolf (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I'll use dog willies as an example because it seems to be the most popular thing in anthro art.
> 
> I've noticed that anthro dog parts look much different from real dog parts. I'm not a fan of dog willies in anthro art. I always prefer human or tentacle willies... or alien willies. But yeah, sometimes for commissions, I gotta draw dog willies. I had to google them so I could get a good reference for the anatomy. Real dog willies are fucking gross. They are absolutely repulsive. They look like rotting meat.
> 
> ...


I agree. Art is art. It's ment to be expressive, accurate and yet creative. From what things I've seen so far, the creativity is mostly the main goal. "What would my character be like with this and how would it affect his/her life and relationships?" It's delving into the deep end of the pool of how real some people feel about their sonas, and so they would like accuracy and a realistic sense to their creation. I'm a wolf/fox hybrid, and should I ever chose to go the route of giving him a lover, the created parts will be a mix of creative realism. I'm not into the zoo scene, but one has to accept that having a non human sona means probably having non-human parts that come with it, but that's up to the views of the owner. I'm sure there are likely people's characters out there that, for example, is 99% Dire Wolf, but that last 1% is because he has a completely human dong. That's not at all accurate, but it's the creators choice as a preference. It's not for us to judge how accurate a person can be with their sona. That's the point of creativity.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Nexus Cabler said:


> Okay, I'm going to be more direct, but don't mistake this as aggression please.
> 
> There is a very vast distance between sometimes incorporating nsfw elements in fictional cartoon animals and being sexually attracted to your neighbors dog. I don't think I have to elaborate on this further, considering mungo and a few others have explained it well, but I'm stepping in because I feel your argument about morality and standards is rather flawed. If you believe furry pornography is a legitimate issue with modern society we should be concerned about (in this case that you believe it's going to lead to beastiality), I suggest you step back and take a look at the world in the big picture, and also ask yourself why you are on a furry forum, socializing with furries, to begin with (considering you have stated several times in the past that you are not a furry yourself ._. ).
> 
> Lastly, I would recommend thinking before comparing anyone here to Kero of all people. That's a pretty wild comparison.



1.I'm here because I'm bored and because I have Sonic OCs which while are not human, they're not exactly furries.
2.Nowhere have I had to sign up and say "sure I'm okay with yiffing and sexual content". I made no agreement to say I condone this in the furry fandom or any fandom.
3.It's not incorporating NSFW elements, but the fact you do it for characters who clearly show more animal aspects than humans. I'll use a character from my neck of the woods, Rouge is constantly swooned over in the Sonic fandom, but the way she acts she acts like well, a human. She doesn't act like a bat other than flying around, furries on the other hand have characters act like animals and as a pet owner that concerns me.
4.Nobody fucking can tell me to be here for sexual content. If you see my own FA you'll see it's all SFW and when I do RP's I always like actual human interaction and buildup. I have lore and characterization, I'm not on here for smut shit.
5.I also may add if we're going with the notion that "you must be okay with it if you're on here", I would also say there are minors on this forum. So by association of furry=yiff, this means this place is indeed a creeper haven. Not that I believe that, but to say "well look at where you're at", then you'd basically say a forum where people under the age of 18 are on is forcing sexual content on others.

In terms of this Kero individual and other furries out there who want sexual content of non-human genetalia. I am of the notion that if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is in fact a duck. True, many furries who are into animal parts haven't been caught, but you have to understand that in terms of sexual drives people who cannot control their libidos will just go more and more into sexual depravity. This is a rabbit hole that goes further and further, and just look at the main gallery of the website. Moderation in terms of sexual cravings is not something the main site is known for.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

quoting_mungo said:


> You shouldn’t have to give excuses, no. Because it’s not something that needs excused. Goodness gracious!
> 
> It’s okay to prefer human-style junk on your anthro characters. If people deliberately draw your OCs with the wrong junk they’re assholes. But walk into any sex shop and you’ll find plenty of socially acceptable (to the degree that sex and sex toys are at all) toys that don’t all look like human reproductive organs.
> 
> If it’s fictional genitalia on someone’s fictional self-representation (since FAIK that’s the most common use of “fursona” and that’s what the thread is about), its existence/design is endangering exactly zero animals. Far as I’m concerned any objection to bestiality that isn’t based on harm coming to the animal through the practice is... dubious. Sounds more like moralizing (a close friend of kinkshaming) to me.



I don't draw junk on my men, (mostly because due to Sonic style), but in terms of lore they probably have it some sort of mutated biological way under their fur or it retracts. Truth be told, I don't do much sexual content with my males at all. Females have more depiction, but that is because as you can tell from my art style, I tend to prefer the natural beauty of women over the handsomeness of men. (That is mostly because I have one or two 'chad/alpha' men that I focus on and every other male simply pails in comparison to handsomeness to them. This is mostly to promote certain characters who are important in my story and are male over others.) 

However, I'll stop you right there with "it's fictional because it's okay". I hail from Deviantart, I've seen people do all sorts of horrors and there's a lot of people who have wanted real life people in their "fictional art". While of course these people are low caliber and don't make actual art, they still are a factor in this. Also, I would like to bring up an infamous piece of shit in the Sonic fandom, Paulandamy. A guy who liked Amy Rose so much, he actually molested a girl who looked like her. Now, I know this is the most radical of notions, but the fact is there are people out there who cannot control their urges from fiction to reality. You don't know the mind of the person who is making the art, and as far as I've seen on the main site. A lot of people simply cannot be trusted to control their urges. Deviantart has had a lot of people with creepy art in their galleries and faves, and they turned out to be scumbags and got arrested IRL.


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## TrishaCat (Mar 23, 2021)

"there are people that do bad things that like thing, therefore thing is dangerous"
Chill

Honestly this whole thread should chill, why care what someone does with their own characters?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

TrishaCat said:


> "there are people that do bad things that like thing, therefore thing is dangerous"
> Chill
> 
> Honestly this whole thread should chill, why care what someone does with their own characters?



I don't care, until you end up like Kero. My problem is that from what I've seen, a lot of people who are in the furry fandom have little in the notions of moderation and control. There's way more out there lewd art than there is on Deviantart. Knowing how human libidos work, that is concerning.


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## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

There's a lot I want to say but I have this gut feeling that if I do, it'll be like kicking a hornet's nest.

I'll just sit back and munch on some popcorn.


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## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> In terms of this Kero individual and other furries out there who want sexual content of non-human genetalia. I am of the notion that if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is in fact a duck. True, many furries who are into animal parts haven't been caught, but you have to understand that in terms of sexual drives people who cannot control their libidos will just go more and more into sexual depravity. This is a rabbit hole that goes further and further, and just look at the main gallery of the website. Moderation in terms of sexual cravings is not something the main site is known for.




So uhhh... yeah I guess according to you every furry who has animal parts in their art are closeted zoos as you said "haven't been caught"
That is quite a heavy handed statement there.
Like... should we presume since you like sonic characters and on average many of the sonic characters are minors that you have some fixation there? 
Is that your rabbit hole that goes farther and farther? 

Like it is called imagination and fantasy in the case of anthros y'know.
Like imagine an alien and it has bits that look like a sea anemone and that is a fantasy of someones. that doesnt mean that they want to sexually please themselves with a real sea anemone.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> So uhhh... yeah I guess according to you every furry who has animal parts in their art are closeted zoos as you said "haven't been caught"
> That is quite a heavy handed statement there.
> Like... should we presume since you like sonic characters and on average many of the sonic characters are minors that you have some fixation there?
> Is that your rabbit hole that goes farther and farther?
> ...



Well for one, almost all of my characters are OCs and adults. So if you'd think that you'd be an utter moron. If you'd look at my roster, there's only like three kids out of like, over 60-70 adults. So yeah, if you're that petty and stupid.

However, I don't trust furries to the same level as I would people in other fandoms. Simply put, unlike other fandoms furries have a way of showing no shame and that to me is a sign of mental instability. I'm in the Fallout fandom, the Star Wars fandom, I like some anime, and I am in the Warhammer fandom. While they all have their bad apples, they never are just "okay" with their sexual deviancy, at least to the point the fandom as a whole. 

Having imagination is fine, looking at an actual animal and saying "maybe if this is was on a fictional character than it would be okay" is not fine.


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## quoting_mungo (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> However, I'll stop you right there with "it's fictional because it's okay". I hail from Deviantart, I've seen people do all sorts of horrors and there's a lot of people who have wanted real life people in their "fictional art". While of course these people are low caliber and don't make actual art, they still are a factor in this. Also, I would like to bring up an infamous piece of shit in the Sonic fandom, Paulandamy. A guy who liked Amy Rose so much, he actually molested a girl who looked like her. Now, I know this is the most radical of notions, but the fact is there are people out there who cannot control their urges from fiction to reality. You don't know the mind of the person who is making the art, and as far as I've seen on the main site. A lot of people simply cannot be trusted to control their urges. Deviantart has had a lot of people with creepy art in their galleries and faves, and they turned out to be scumbags and got arrested IRL.


I don’t know the mind of the person making the art, true, and neither do you. Choosing to assume the worst because of your own puritanical hang ups is not a good hill to die on.

You’re welcome to not be comfortable with consuming adult content, but suggesting that all or most people who do are bestialists because bestialists exist is frankly so divorced from reality that you should be paying alimony. There are accusations you should never throw around without serious evidence, and this is one of them. 

You can be uncomfortable with it, but pretending that it’s evidence of bestiality or that this fictional content is doing real harm is still wrong. You are not better than a furry artist who draws dog dick just because you choose to play with characters inspired by a franchise aimed at children. Now, do I think that adults shouldn’t be able to be fans of children’s media without stigma? Hell no. But you need to realize that if imaginary genitalia damns furries, by that same logic your choice of media damns you. So it may be time to leave that high horse in the stable. And no, the age of your derivative OCs doesn’t matter; else the derivative genitalia on people’s freaking made-up animal-people wouldn’t matter. 

What goes on in someone’s head or in their artwork is not real and unless and until they take actions in the real world, it’s at the level of thought crime. I don’t think anyone wants to go _there_.

(Also, if you think there isn’t fascination with non-human genitalia outside furry fandom, you may want to read up on the A/B/O romance/erotica sub genre. Particularly, look into Addison Cain. I won’t link her work or the New York Times article about her possessiveness about some of the genre tropes here, as, well, erotica, but it’s... a thing.)


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## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Well for one, almost all of my characters are OCs and adults. So if you'd think that you'd be an utter moron. If you'd look at my roster, there's only like three kids out of like, over 60-70 adults. So yeah, if you're that petty and stupid.
> 
> However, I don't trust furries to the same level as I would people in other fandoms. Simply put, unlike other fandoms furries have a way of showing no shame and that to me is a sign of mental instability. I'm in the Fallout fandom, the Star Wars fandom, I like some anime, and I am in the Warhammer fandom. While they all have their bad apples, they never are just "okay" with their sexual deviancy, at least to the point the fandom as a whole.
> 
> Having imagination is fine, looking at an actual animal and saying "maybe if this is was on a fictional character than it would be okay" is not fine.


"Sexual Deviancy"
Oh no something that falls outside of the norm like literally most any kink or fetish like idk... Macro and micro content for instance.

You certainly do seem to have a fixation on macro and micro content based on your RP ads and such.

You make not hiding things about yourself and being openly apparent with things sound like it is somehow bad because people have "no shame". Like I am sorry you are so repressed that you find that to be something so outlandish and alarming really.

Also to clarify I said many SONIC characters are minors and you seem to base yourself here heavily by your OCs there. Also DID you just say you have 3 kids on your roster? OMG "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...." *Rolls eyes*
Seriously you are making non starter arguments and really just sound very repressed and prudish and tbh I hope one say you can find yourself more free to express and be you and such.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I don't care, until you end up like Kero. My problem is that from what I've seen, a lot of people who are in the furry fandom have little in the notions of moderation and control. There's way more out there lewd art than there is on Deviantart. Knowing how human libidos work, that is concerning.


A guy shot up a school. He also played violent video games. Therefore, violent videogames must have caused the shooting.

That's how you sound.

Everyone else covered the rest of my points. But are you sure you aren't projecting your own issues on others?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

quoting_mungo said:


> I don’t know the mind of the person making the art, true, and neither do you. Choosing to assume the worst because of your own puritanical hang ups is not a good hill to die on.
> 
> You’re welcome to not be comfortable with consuming adult content, but suggesting that all or most people who do are bestialists because bestialists exist is frankly so divorced from reality that you should be paying alimony. There are accusations you should never throw around without serious evidence, and this is one of them.
> 
> ...



Wrong, I assume the worst in everyone. I assume the worst in human nature, it's just how I am. Don't think I single people out, I just don't have good faith in people when it usually has shown to go up against my better judgement. 

I'm sorry, but the rest of the internet throw around these accusations. Who are you to tell me who to judge and not to judge? I can have my doubts if I please, you cannot force people to be okay with sexual degeneracy. At the end of the day I will still hold firm to my beliefs until I die. You can however, prove that I am unfounded, however as it stands the furry fandom still has shown that it has no intent on being moderated. Do I blame everyone? No, but unlike other fandoms there are a lot of people who simply do not control their urges and the most shilling out porn artist is the most popular. Sorry, but it's the truth on how I see it. Do I want it like that? No, but sadly that is what separates furries from simple anthro character enthusiasts. 

Um once more, actually read my fucking stories. It's a war story where characters fight and die in wars I have designed. It doesn't matter the source material if canon characters rarely show up and I have a sandbox of OC's that I focus on. It's like saying you cannot make your own Pokemon story, because Pokemon is a series all itself.

People have gone there, and that's the issue. You're acting like there's never been accounts of furries abusing animals, there's been multiple. 

(I don't care about errotica. I'm sure there are, but I would call that degeneracy as well. I call that "Dollar store" bargain bin smut. If anyone I knew read that I would seriously consider disassociating myself with it. If some erotica writer rapped a woman, I'd grill them just as well. My genres are warfare, science fiction, and grimdark fantasy.)


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> "Sexual Deviancy"
> Oh no something that falls outside of the norm like literally most any kink or fetish like idk... Macro and micro content for instance.
> 
> You certainly do seem to have a fixation on macro and micro content based on your RP ads and such.
> ...



Pfft! What an utter hypocrite you are, but it's fine. You're petty and trying to "get to me". Sadly for you, most of my macro work is far cleaner than anything you'd find on Deviantart or Fur Affinity, you're a little late on that train.

Yeah, my characters have superpowers and one of them have this as their genetic power. There's nothing sexual about Grief trying to murder G.U.N soldiers by crushing them, unless you're just that sort of person. If you'd knew half of my lore you'd know it is very much Marvel/DC related with war themes. 

I'm not repressed, I just have standards. A lot of people do.

Once more, most of my major characters want to murder Sonic and Eggman, if you knew my lore you'd know they're not on his side and the Order outright preform hedgehog and echinda genocide.  Also yeah, because I have eras in my story. You know, we were all kids once and there were kids in WW1-WW2 stories, like ever heard of Hacksaw Ridge? Also, I tell the story of the Grey Revolution and the Bombing of Siag from Grief's perspective as a kid, which lead to his hatred of the prime world in his adulthood and the rise to his own dictatorship.


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## TrishaCat (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I like some anime,





Jaredthefox92 said:


> they never are just "okay" with their sexual deviancy, at least to the point the fandom as a whole.


is this why anime like Redo of Healer and Kiss x Sis exist and air on national television in Japan


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

TrishaCat said:


> is this why anime like Redo of Healer and Kiss x Sis exist and air on national television in Japan



Japan has it's fair share of really messed up things, but we could be here all day about "questionable" anime. So yeah, just because it's popular in Japan doesn't make it appropriate.  Japanese culture is um, rather messed up. My Italian friend even agrees with me on this, but he's not in this discussion.


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## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

So you fail to see your own hypocrisy with your "standards" or that different people may have different "standards" too.

Why are you still here why keep this company and instead just keep to your "respectable" certainly no "sexual deviancy" having fandoms like Warhammer, Sonic and Anime.

Like if I felt like I was surrounded by Zoophiles I would leave that surrounding because that is grotesque.

@Jaredthefox92


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Japan has it's fair share of really messed up things, but we could be here all day about "questionable" anime. So yeah, just because it's popular in Japan doesn't make it appropriate.  Japanese culture is um, rather messed up. My Italian friend even agrees with me on this, but he's not in this discussion.


No, I think you should elaborate how japanese culture is messed up. And explain thoroughly what an ideal culture is. It appears many of us misunderstand your goals, so can you properly define what's deviant, what isn't, and how sex should be treated. Then also explain why Japan does it wrong.


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## Deleted member 134556 (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Japan has it's fair share of really messed up things, but we could be here all day about "questionable" anime. So yeah, just because it's popular in Japan doesn't make it appropriate.  Japanese culture is um, rather messed up. My Italian friend even agrees with me on this, but he's not in this discussion.


It's ironic that you have such views on Japan considering they created what inspired your characters.


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## TrishaCat (Mar 23, 2021)

Anyways its okay to be grossed out by things and not like them, just don't judge people over things you don't understand. Stay in your lane so to speak
And I was moreso just trying to say that if the furry fandom is considered overtly sexual, the anime fandom is too and I think one is in denial if they say otherwise. 

Though, this forum is supposed to be 13+ and mostly sfw, so there's that.


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## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

"You're into weird shit!"
"No u!"


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## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> "You're into weird shit!"
> "No u!"


Think it is more so:
"You're into weird shit!"
"Yeah, and so are you."


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## Deleted member 134556 (Mar 23, 2021)

God forbid any employers ever stumble across our FA accounts '>_>


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## Punji (Mar 23, 2021)

Nexus Cabler said:


> God forbid any employers ever stumble across our FA accounts '>_>



Employer's face when


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## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Think it is more so:
> "You're into weird shit!"
> "Yeah, and so are you."


Exactly. The pot talking back to the kettle as it were. 



Nexus Cabler said:


> God forbid any employers ever stumble across our FA accounts '>_>


Inb4 all my colleagues turn into Furries. 

Jeeesus fuckin' Christ. I'd quit the job if they started going around saying "UwU" all day.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Nexus Cabler said:


> It's ironic that you have such views on Japan considering they created what inspired your characters.
> View attachment 105451



Context: I don't hate the Japanese, hell my mother worked for them here. I said Japan has it's fair share of scumbags, but I don't hate Japanese culture, anime, or the Japanese people as a whole. But, to give me an example of manga and anime, I will say I am VERY picky about manga and anime.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

TrishaCat said:


> Anyways its okay to be grossed out by things and not like them, just don't judge people over things you don't understand. Stay in your lane so to speak
> And I was moreso just trying to say that if the furry fandom is considered overtly sexual, the anime fandom is too and I think one is in denial if they say otherwise.
> 
> Though, this forum is supposed to be 13+ and mostly sfw, so there's that.



Oh, I understand a lot. I've been on the internet for years and I was on FA for years, even if I didn't use my account before 2018 when I stopped using bases. But, as for "staying in my lane." I do so, but there is this thread and I have a right to input like anyone else. See, I am not here for an echo chamber. If you want my actual opinion on the topic at hand, I'll tell you honestly.

Oh, I know they are. I hate weebs too. In fact, I hate them more than furries. Furries generally have some sort of "issue", but weebs generally are just pretentious gatekeeping assholes who look down on every form of western media. Don't worry, the weebs are not spared from my opinions.

I sure hope so, but from how people acted in this thread and the main site being filled with all sorts of um, well you know. I am very skeptical. I don't think furries are generally like this, but there is sort of a sense of pride while shielding the more unsavory individuals. Sure you can draw what you like, associate with who you want on here, and have your stance. But, I am also allowed to have my stance. I am not saying, no promiscuity, but I am saying you should keep it humanlike and consenting.


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## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> There's nothing sexual about Grief trying to murder G.U.N soldiers by crushing them, unless you're just that sort of person. If you'd knew half of my lore you'd know it is very much Marvel/DC related with war themes.
> 
> I'm not repressed, I just have standards. A lot of people do.
> 
> Once more, most of my major characters want to murder Sonic and Eggman, if you knew my lore you'd know they're not on his side and the Order outright preform hedgehog and echinda genocide.  Also yeah, because I have eras in my story. You know, we were all kids once and there were kids in WW1-WW2 stories, like ever heard of Hacksaw Ridge? Also, I tell the story of the Grey Revolution and the Bombing of Siag from Grief's perspective as a kid, which lead to his hatred of the prime world in his adulthood and the rise to his own dictatorship.


Do I read normalisation of griveous crimes in this statement? You clearly must have sympathies for the most gruesome people out there.

because as we've come to realise along the course of this thread "If it quacks like a duck..."


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> No, I think you should elaborate how japanese culture is messed up. And explain thoroughly what an ideal culture is. It appears many of us misunderstand your goals, so can you properly define what's deviant, what isn't, and how sex should be treated. Then also explain why Japan does it wrong.



Japan has a history of um, well they used to have formal marriages but that is not exactly what I'm getting at. Not bringing up WW2, Japan seems to have age consent laws that I am not fond of. As for their sex in their anime, I have nothing against it if it's some big busty woman or some Jojo male. That's not the issue, the problem is all the abundant amount of promiscuity in animes where they're not adults. The Japanese are not known for their female rights, especially when it comes to marriage and things of that capacity. Japan has a very bad track record, if you catch my drift. Now I understand why, they're a former feudal nation. My problem is when you have manga and anime that is way too out there. 

I'm not speaking about Pokemon, Jojo, ect ect. I'm speaking about those creepy stories.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> Do I read normalisation of griveous crimes in this statement? You clearly must have sympathies for the most gruesome people out there.
> 
> because as we've come to realise along the course of this thread "If it quacks like a duck..."



You do realize Grief literally goes into Morbia (my version of  the multiverses Hell) and has to join forces with his mother's killer to help the grim reaper restore balance in hell, while fighting off all the souls of the people he's murdered, right? I never condone his actions, in fact he gets the worst punishment ever, he is forced into an eternity of damnation with Scourge who killed his mother. Both of them are shitheads and they both are tyrants and hate each other. Grief gets his damnation and his punishment. 

Also, spellcheck is your friend.


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## quoting_mungo (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Um once more, actually read my fucking stories. It's a war story where characters fight and die in wars I have designed. It doesn't matter the source material if canon characters rarely show up and I have a sandbox of OC's that I focus on. It's like saying you cannot make your own Pokemon story, because Pokemon is a series all itself.


No, it’s saying that if you think furries can’t create characters that are essentially a spin-off of real animals without being accused of wanting to bone real animals, it’s damn hypocritical to say you should be free to create characters that are spin-offs of children’s characters (most of whom are minors, as @Lucyfur points out) without being accused of wanting to bone (or possibly murder, since you like your war stories) children. *Obviously* it’s ludicrous to assume that you want to do that, and I don’t. All I’m saying is that that’s where your logic is pointing.

*You do not have to like or consume NSFW material.* Nobody is saying you’re a lesser person for choosing not to. You, on the other hand, are trying to lord some imagined moral superiority over other users here solely based on consumption of NSFW art and outright libel a large part of the fandom over a small detail of character design.

The whole “murder is morally superior to sex” vibe that permeates much of western society’s mores, especially as concerns media content, is fucking weird, anyway. We should _all_ stop and think about that, from time to time. It’s pretty objectively fucked up that fictional consensual sex is considered less acceptable than fictional decidedly non-consensual homicide.



Jaredthefox92 said:


> People have gone there, and that's the issue. You're acting like there's never been accounts of furries abusing animals, there's been multiple.


Of course there are. But I highly doubt any of them were perfectly “normal” with no paraphilias or attraction to anything but opposite-sex humans (and that only after marriage, with the lights off) until they one day saw a red rocket on a piece of furry art and decided it was time to pound some puppers. Nor are accounts of it happening nearly so common as to suggest that everyone that draws non-human junk on their non-human characters designed their characters that way because they want a taste of Rover some time down the road - the number would be staggering and wildly outstrip all research estimations of incidence of bestiality as a paraphilia.

(Also, your suggestion downthread that furries are generally “shielding the more unsavory individuals” is... not really anchored in fact. What typically happens when news break of someone harming humans or animals, _especially_ in a sexual context: Some people will stand by their friends while acknowledging that what they did was wrong, a large number of people will fucking dogpile on the offender trying to run them out of the fandom, and relatively few will try to shield the supposed guilty parties (I know there’s been at least one accusation that turned out to be false only after extensive abuse directed at the accused individual). These people get _death wishes_. If you think people telling someone to kill themselves and other people seeing no problem with that is “shielding” them... That’s a major you problem.)



Jaredthefox92 said:


> (I don't care about errotica. I'm sure there are, but I would call that degeneracy as well. I call that "Dollar store" bargain bin smut. If anyone I knew read that I would seriously consider disassociating myself with it. If some erotica writer rapped a woman, I'd grill them just as well. My genres are warfare, science fiction, and grimdark fantasy.)


Great. So you are happy to take back your implication that only furries who want to bang animals would have any interest in non-human genitalia, then? Acknowledge that maybe a fair number of women (biggest demographic of erotica readers) outside furry fandom do chat about this, at least with each other (considering Cain’s first novel has reviews numbering in the four digits according to NYT)?

You’re also very quick to dismiss a whole genre without reading it for someone who doesn’t want to accept criticism of the words posted on a forum from someone who didn’t first read their body of work. Again, you’re under no obligation to consume NSFW material, but you should probably consider the hypocrisy in your statement demanding I read your work rather than judge it by what you yourself say about it in threads.

Bottom line: Maybe stop trying to pretentiously lecture people about the supposed deviancy of a fandom you’re observing through a lens of puritanism.


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> You do realize Grief literally goes into Morbia (my version of  the multiverses Hell) and has to join forces with his mother's killer to help the grim reaper restore balance in hell, while fighting off all the souls of the people he's murdered, right? I never condone his actions, in fact he gets the worst punishment ever, he is forced into an eternity of damnation with Scourge who killed his mother. Both of them are shitheads and they both are tyrants and hate each other. Grief gets his damnation and his punishment.
> 
> Also, spellcheck is your friend.


This still feels big time like you have a massive problem with violence and its reprecussions as a problem-solving method, given the fact that you glorify it so much - you must be a murderer in the making, methinks.

Me and spellchek neva got alon


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Oh, I understand a lot. I've been on the internet for years and I was on FA for years, even if I didn't use my account before 2018 when I stopped using bases. But, as for "staying in my lane." I do so, but there is this thread and I have a right to input like anyone else. See, I am not here for an echo chamber. If you want my actual opinion on the topic at hand, I'll tell you honestly.
> 
> Oh, I know they are. I hate weebs too. In fact, I hate them more than furries. Furries generally have some sort of "issue", but weebs generally are just pretentious gatekeeping assholes who look down on every form of western media. Don't worry, the weebs are not spared from my opinions.
> 
> I sure hope so, but from how people acted in this thread and the main site being filled with all sorts of um, well you know. I am very skeptical. I don't think furries are generally like this, but there is sort of a sense of pride while shielding the more unsavory individuals. Sure you can draw what you like, associate with who you want on here, and have your stance. But, I am also allowed to have my stance. I am not saying, no promiscuity, but I am saying you should keep it humanlike and consenting.


Again if you feel like you are surrounded by zoophiles (Which is like not the case mate people just have imaginations and such) why are you still here? why keep that company? like why not go hang out with the mostly child aged cast of Sonic fandom or something?

Like you're into squishing others as a gruesome manner of fighting as a macro and also fighting 15 year old children like Sonic the Hedgehog. It is an odd display of wanting power and control over others EVEN children. And yet you talk about deviancy and standards, lol yours seem to be a little like they are wonkey.

But I dunno you were talking about ducks earlier?
Wild~


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> This still feels big time like you have a massive problem with violence and its reprecussions as a problem-solving method, given the fact that you glorify it so much - you must be a murderer in the making, methinks.
> 
> Me and spellchek neva got alon



You clearly never have written a villain before, Darth Vader, Sinestro, any Chaos character in Warhammer, the Joker. They all have been very violent and that is how they are. In your perfect little world we never should have fought wars because those are violent. There's plenty of characters who fight Grief, even Cyrus who is his good version on Sonic's world. My story is violent because I like gritty war stories, don't like that? Never watch Warhammer, Fallout, or Star Wars.


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> You clearly never have written a villain before, Darth Vader, Sinestro, any Chaos character in Warhammer, the Joker. They all have been very violent and that is how they are. In your perfect little world we never should have fought wars because those are violent. There's plenty of characters who fight Grief, even Cyrus who is his good version on Sonic's world. My story is violent because I like gritty war stories, don't like that? Never watch Warhammer, Fallout, or Star Wars.


... So how is it wrong if I assume you're a murderous maniac for liking stories with a violent theme but if you assume someone's a zoophile for liking weird dicks this is suddenly okay and legitimate?


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> You clearly never have written a villain before, Darth Vader, Sinestro, any Chaos character in Warhammer, the Joker. They all have been very violent and that is how they are. In your perfect little world we never should have fought wars because those are violent. There's plenty of characters who fight Grief, even Cyrus who is his good version on Sonic's world. My story is violent because I like gritty war stories, don't like that? Never watch Warhammer, Fallout, or Star Wars.


I believe it is more about your projections because of others artistic depictions of their own characters. Like a look in the mirror if you are going to make baseless accusations kind of thing because your reflection under your own metrics of judgement of others without any real substance as you said "havent been caught (implied yet)" would make you appear quite the deviant monster yourself.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Again if you feel like you are surrounded by zoophiles (Which is like not the case mate people just have imaginations and such) why are you still here? why keep that company? like why not go hang out with the mostly child aged cast of Sonic fandom or something?
> 
> Like you're into squishing others as a gruesome manner of fighting as a macro and also fighting 15 year old children like Sonic the Hedgehog. It is an odd display of wanting power and control over others EVEN children. And yet you talk about deviancy and standards, lol yours seem to be a little like they are wonkey.
> 
> ...



Once more, if you'd actually took the time to read what I've said. I don't think "everyone" here is like that, I don't think the majority of people here are like that. However, this thread was brought up and I've given my personal opinion. Also, my friends in my discord are all adults and our lore is meant to specifically cater to the older adult crowd who grew up with the old Archie Sonic lore.

You're full of utter shit. First off, my lore takes place 15 years into the future, Sonic and friends are all adults. Second, Grief has fought Sonic like once, Sonic is too busy fighting Grief's generals and psychic soldiers. My lore was made for the older adult crowd in the Sonic fandom, I've always said that.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> ... So how is it wrong if I assume you're a murderous maniac for liking stories with a violent theme but if you assume someone's a zoophile for liking weird dicks this is suddenly okay and legitimate?



Seriously, never watch Saving Private Ryan or Downfall for me, you sound petty as hell. I mean yeah, if you look at a dog's dick and like that, then you have issues.


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Seriously, never watch Saving Private Ryan or Downfall for me, you sound petty as hell. I mean yeah, if you look at a dog's dick and like that, then you have issues.


I feel like people looking at dog dicks aren't the only ones with issues here.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> I feel like people looking at dog dicks aren't the only ones with issues here.



So you're okay with them doing that. Fine sense of ethics you have there.


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> dog dicks


Aaand now you lost every Furry in here. Go to jorny hail! :V


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Once more, if you'd actually took the time to read what I've said. I don't think "everyone" here is like that, I don't think the majority of people here are like that. However, this thread was brought up and I've given my personal opinion. Also, my friends in my discord are all adults and our lore is meant to specifically cater to the older adult crowd who grew up with the old Archie Sonic lore.
> 
> You're full of utter shit. First off, my lore takes place 15 years into the future, Sonic and friends are all adults. Second, Grief has fought Sonic like once, Sonic is too busy fighting Grief's generals and psychic soldiers. My lore was made for the older adult crowd in the Sonic fandom, I've always said that.


"I don't think "Everyone" here is like that"
*rewinds to a previous post you made in this thread*


> True, many furries who are into animal parts haven't been caught, but you have to understand that in terms of sexual drives people who cannot control their libidos will just go more and more into sexual depravity.


Ah Just anyone who uses a depiction in their art is like that.

Again turn your mirror on yourself as far as standards go because your reflection is quite how we say... Cringe, or yikes. That is if put under your own judgement.


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Aaand now you lost every Furry in here. Go to jorny hail! :V


I'm only going if your coming as well and we're getting a cell together.


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> I'm only going if your coming as well and we're getting a cell together.







Hmmmmmmmmmm... Only if you bring a deck of cards. :3


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> "I don't think "Everyone" here is like that"
> *rewinds to a previous post you made in this thread*
> 
> Ah Just anyone who uses a depiction in their art is like that.
> ...



Once more, I have an input on this thread, if you don't like you can go and write a formal complaint to the United Nations that someone doesn't agree with you on the internet.


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Once more, I have an input on this thread, if you don't like you can go and write a formal complaint to the United Nations that someone doesn't agree with you on the internet.


I'm already penning one.


Yakamaru said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm... Only if you bring a deck of cards. :3


I'll bring quite another deck


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> I'll bring quite another deck


Why am I hearing this in a New Zealand accent?


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> I'm already penning one.
> 
> I'll bring quite another deck



Good, I hope all the G-7 countries receive your formal proposal and give some serious thought on how some random Sonic OC artists on the internet who you don't agree with is causing Global Warming.


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Why am I hearing this in a New Zealand accent?


rejoice, the kiwi stick has returned


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Once more, I have an input on this thread, if you don't like you can go and write a formal complaint to the United Nations that someone doesn't agree with you on the internet.


Just saying again because you seem to lack the ability to decipher.

You are being a massive hypocrite who has thrown some pretty hefty accusations around due to artistic depictions of other individuals characters.

That is the entire point and premise here like you are being a goofy headed fool.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Just saying again because you seem to lack the ability to decipher.
> 
> You are being a massive hypocrite who has thrown some pretty hefty accusations around due to artistic depictions of other individuals characters.
> 
> That is the entire point and premise here like you are being a goofy headed fool.



Ah yes, call me a hypocrite over the internet, random liberal person who's on a forum built for furries. I will clearly not sleep well tonight, oh wait.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Japan has a history of um, well they used to have formal marriages but that is not exactly what I'm getting at. Not bringing up WW2, Japan seems to have age consent laws that I am not fond of. As for their sex in their anime, I have nothing against it if it's some big busty woman or some Jojo male. That's not the issue, the problem is all the abundant amount of promiscuity in animes where they're not adults. The Japanese are not known for their female rights, especially when it comes to marriage and things of that capacity. Japan has a very bad track record, if you catch my drift. Now I understand why, they're a former feudal nation. My problem is when you have manga and anime that is way too out there.
> 
> I'm not speaking about Pokemon, Jojo, ect ect. I'm speaking about those creepy stories



I'm still not getting there. What's an ideal, moral country? What would you want to see? I see your issues with Japan, but I guess I don't see them as unique to Japan, so I need help. What sort of moral culture do you want?


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> I'm still not getting there. What's an ideal, moral country? What would you want to see? I see your issues with Japan, but I guess I don't see them as unique to Japan, so I need help. What sort of moral culture do you want?



I am not condemning Japanese culture, but they need to get with the times. They are though, which I respect them for, but we must not allow certain Japanese media into western society, (I'm talking about hentai and whatnot.) I'm also not saying we in the west are not part of the problem as well, in fact we are. What I'm saying is that there are certain mangas and animes that would not fly over here, and shouldn't fly over here.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I am not condemning Japanese culture, but they need to get with the times. They are though, which I respect them for, but we must not allow certain Japanese media into western society, (I'm talking about hentai and whatnot.) I'm also not saying we in the west are not part of the problem as well, in fact we are. What I'm saying is that there are certain mangas and animes that would not fly over here, and shouldn't fly over here.


Dude, answer the question. What is an ideal, moral society. What should we all strive for. I'm... sensing you can't define it.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Dude, answer the question. What is an ideal, moral society. What should we all strive for. I'm... sensing you can't define it.



An ideal moral society for Japan would be one that they raise the age of consent and drop all the school girl anime and creepy shit ones. I'm not saying "make them like the USA or the west", but they CAN adjust things for modernization.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> An ideal moral society for Japan would be one that they raise the age of consent and drop all the school girl anime and creepy shit ones. I'm not saying "make them like the USA or the west", but they CAN adjust things for modernization.


Nope. Not what I asked. What is an ideal society we should all strive for. I cited Japan because you clearly have issues with them. But that didn't get an answer. No, what is an ideal society. What is morality. If you're convinced we're all deviants, you should be able to define it.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Nope. Not what I asked. What is an ideal society we should all strive for. I cited Japan because you clearly have issues with them. But that didn't get an answer. No, what is an ideal society. What is morality. If you're convinced we're all deviants, you should be able to define it.



See here's the thing, If I make up a country or say a country, you're going to go "oh but that country is shit too". I never said a notion of a "utopia", for there are none. BUT, they can modify certain aspects to make their society more modernized, and I feel they actually do try this. Like as I've said, making the age of consent to be +21. 

My view of an ideal society is not your view. Because if I say "hey let's make everything like Conservative, Bible loving gun shooting Georgia "clearly that wouldn't work. That's not what I'm saying, I'm talking about Japan in terms of their laws and certain manga and anime that is clearly wrong even by our standards. My point is there are things Japan can do to get with the times, consent laws, less hentai and more women's rights. To their credit, they are working hard on this and I'm well aware that Japan also has mature, modernized , and well intended people as well.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> See here's the thing, If I make up a country or say a country, you're going to go "oh but that country is shit too". I never said a notion of a "utopia", for there are none. BUT, they can modify certain aspects to make their society more modernized, and I feel they actually do try this. Like as I've said, making the age of consent to be +21.
> 
> My view of an ideal society is not your view. Because if I say "hey let's make everything like Conservative, Bible loving gun shooting Georgia "clearly that wouldn't work. That's not what I'm saying, I'm talking about Japan in terms of their laws and certain manga and anime that is clearly wrong even by our standards. My point is there are things Japan can do to get with the times, consent laws, less hentai and more women's rights. To their credit, they are working hard on this and I'm well aware that Japan also has mature, modernized , and well intended people as well.


Japan was a mistake. Because you're now super stuck on it. Forget about Japan, if you can. 

So, we know a moral country has an age of consent of 21. What else? Define what your moral code, if you will, is. You have standards, what are they?


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

As unpleasant as it is to be painted with an almost eclipsing brush, this has been a very interesting read. I have been enlightened to the views of several of you and it has been refreshing.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Japan was a mistake. Because you're now super stuck on it. Forget about Japan, if you can.
> 
> So, we know a moral country has an age of consent of 21. What else? Define what your moral code, if you will, is. You have standards, what are they?



I mean, the human brain doesn't reach full maturity biologically until age 21, so sure you can act like that is "relative", but it's a biological fact. People in their teens do not make the best calls, and people exploit them for it, that is why I believe consent laws should be +21.


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

Would that include enlisting in the army? Where one would have to be 21+ to enlist?


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Kuroserama said:


> Would that include enlisting in the army? Where one would have to be 21+ to enlist?



I wholeheartedly believe you should be enlisted past the age of 19, but then there's conscription laws. Personally, I would say yes you enlist after the age of 20. You send adults into war, not teens.


----------



## GentleButter (Mar 23, 2021)

*brings popcorn to share with everyone here to watch*
*sees that the person is still freaking out at people*
"ooh yeah this is a really good season"
*turns up the volume*


----------



## ConorHyena (Mar 23, 2021)

GentleButter said:


> *brings popcorn to share with everyone here to watch*
> *sees that the person is still freaking out at people*
> "ooh yeah this is a really good season"
> *turns up the volume*


do you think it may be time to summon the management, cause this does seem to be very politic-y now


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I mean, the human brain doesn't reach full maturity biologically until age 21, so sure you can act like that is "relative", but it's a biological fact. People in their teens do not make the best calls, and people exploit them for it, that is why I believe consent laws should be +21.


If you're gonna say something is "biological fact" then get your facts straight.


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

Oh wow, thanks Chomby, I feel younger, suddenly!


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> If you're gonna say something is "biological fact" then get your facts straight.
> 
> View attachment 105461



The average soldier in WW2 was 26, even in Vietnam when we had a draft it was actually 22, not 19. I am for the WW2 model.


----------



## HarlandWolf (Mar 23, 2021)

GentleButter said:


> *brings popcorn to share with everyone here to watch*
> *sees that the person is still freaking out at people*
> "ooh yeah this is a really good season"
> *turns up the volume*


Can I borrow some of your popcorn while I watch this train wreck too? I just can't seem to turn away. *FureverWolf bums some popcorn from JentleButter*


----------



## Raever (Mar 23, 2021)

I could say a lot of things but this thread is too much for just one post without it becoming messy and repetitive. To put it simply, I think people who judge others for having different (*legal) morals and/or (*reasonable) opinions to the point of shaming them should find better hobbies. Those folks clearly forgot why the Furry fandom exists to begin with. Let's just drop it all now and go back to our fortnite or whatever the kids do these days.


----------



## KimberVaile (Mar 23, 2021)

This thread really got a second wind in terms of entertainment and comedic value. 
FAF is full of surprises today.


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> do you think it may be time to summon the management, cause this does seem to be very politic-y now


And it is for that reason as well as no point trying to talk to a stubborn hypocrite who can't seem to understand that is what they are being.


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

I saw once an interviewer speaking with a man about his house near the shore. The homeowner said that each year the floods brought water high and higher, to the point where his neighbors had moved away and he had to put his home on stilts. The interviewer asked if the man thought global warming was the cause. The man said global warming wasn't true, and that the waters were not rising but could not give a reason as to why the flood waters were higher each year.

That's what this thread feels like.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

@Jaredthefox92 
You *still* haven't answered my question. Literally every single time I have asked you to explain your "standards" or anything else, you pick one detail, and then run with it. First it was Japan, and after telling you 3 times to drop talking about Japan, you then switched to trying to explain a point I didn't actually ask. I gave you enough opportunities to try to start over and really explain your ideals, to work with them. But not anymore. 

My conclusion, either you don't actually have these standards you claim, as you cannot define them. Or, more likely, the "deviancy" and "immorality" you claim to be against, when truly explained, risk getting you banned for violation of forum rules. I did catch you using "liberal" as an insult, which makes me think it's the latter. I already know you have issues with Japanese people. I don't think your "Italian friend" helps that, as I've never found Italy particularly important in Japanese history.

Thus, I really can't help but feel basically all of your negative reactions to the porn here is fully projecting your issues on everyone else. So, to be blunt, just because the dog dicks are making you consider zoophilia, doesn't mean the same is true for literally anyone else in this thread.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> @Jaredthefox92
> You *still* haven't answered my question. Literally every single time I have asked you to explain your "standards" or anything else, you pick one detail, and then run with it. First it was Japan, and after telling you 3 times to drop talking about Japan, you then switched to trying to explain a point I didn't actually ask. I gave you enough opportunities to try to start over and really explain your ideals, to work with them. But not anymore.
> 
> My conclusion, either you don't actually have these standards you claim, as you cannot define them. Or, more likely, the "deviancy" and "immorality" you claim to be against, when truly explained, risk getting you banned for violation of forum rules. I did catch you using "liberal" as an insult, which makes me think it's the latter. I already know you have issues with Japanese people. I don't think your "Italian friend" helps that, as I've never found Italy particularly important in Japanese history.
> ...



Wow, you're utterly delusional lol.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Wow, you're utterly delusional lol.


Sure, but at least I don't expect to reduce the porn on FA.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Sure, but at least I don't expect to reduce the porn on FA.



Never said it would, in fact I'm glad it's all contained mostly on FA and not on DA, my friends and I don't want anything to do with your lewds. I know a lot of SFW artists and we hate it on Deviantart.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Never said it would, in fact I'm glad it's all contained mostly on FA and not on DA, my friends and I don't want anything to do with your lewds. I know a lot of SFW artists and we hate it on Deviantart.


Then if it's so much morally superior, go back to DA. Dunno why you're bitching here, you can you know... leave.


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

You know what? Opossum time.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Then if it's so much morally superior, go back to DA. Dunno why you're bitching here, you can you know... leave.



That's a nice way to show how tolerant and open the furry community is.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> You know what? Possum time.
> 
> View attachment 105476View attachment 105477View attachment 105478View attachment 105479View attachment 105480View attachment 105481View attachment 105482View attachment 105483View attachment 105484View attachment 105485



As my friend would say "ferrets".


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> That's a nice way to show how tolerant and open the furry community is.


Well I mean, we are a bunch of zoophiles, perverts and deviants I guess. What do you expect?


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Well I mean, we are a bunch of zoophiles, perverts and deviants I guess. What do you expect?



Not much, but as I've stated I don't expect everyone here to be like that. If you'd actually would listen to my words, but no you don't. 

Also:


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> That's a nice way to show how tolerant and open the furry community is.


"I only called the lot of you Zoophiles~! So much for the tolerant furries! Harumph!"
Yeah... Again you stated


> True, many furries who are into animal parts haven't been caught, but you have to understand that in terms of sexual drives people who cannot control their libidos will just go more and more into sexual depravity.



How dare some people not be tolerant of someone who infers that they are Zoos and such.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> "I only called the lot of you Zoophiles~! So much for the tolerant furries! Harumph!"
> Yeah... Again you stated
> 
> 
> How dare some people not be tolerant of someone who infers that they are Zoos and such.



That's the silly voice in your silly head, I never stated that.


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> That's the silly voice in your silly head, I never stated that.


Yeah I won't be gaslit by you when that was literally a quote from a post of yours in this thread.
Nice try though.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Yeah I won't be gaslit by you when that was literally a quote from a post of yours in this thread.
> Nice try though.



Um no, I merely have a stance on the topic of the thread. If people are like "yeah I'm totally okay with degeneracy!" how am I supposed to feel?


----------



## Deleted member 134556 (Mar 23, 2021)

Any minute now.....


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> In terms of this Kero individual and other furries out there who want sexual content of non-human genetalia. I am of the notion that if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is in fact a duck. True, many furries who are into animal parts haven't been caught, but you have to understand that in terms of sexual drives people who cannot control their libidos will just go more and more into sexual depravity. This is a rabbit hole that goes further and further, and just look at the main gallery of the website. Moderation in terms of sexual cravings is not something the main site is known for.





Jaredthefox92 said:


> Um no, I merely have a stance on the topic of the thread. If people are like "yeah I'm totally okay with degeneracy!" how am I supposed to feel?


Well that is an interesting stance that says those who want sexual content of their sonas with animal inspired bits to be zoophiles.
When your stance could have been. I personally don't like that style of sexual art and find it unsettling.
Instead you went with the you have knots in your art you are a zoo path.

Honestly... and you choose degeneracy as a descriptor as if that choice makes them void of morals. to have an artistic choice in their sona? Why? because you again infer them to be zoos based on just that and no evidence to support such bold and dangerous claims? Like what the heck?

Yeah that isnt a very tolerant position to make there.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Well that is an interesting stance that says those who want sexual content of their sonas with animal inspired bits to be zoophiles.
> When your stance could have been. I personally don't like that style of sexual art and find it unsettling.
> Instead you went with the you have knots in your art you are a zoo path.
> 
> ...



Ah yes, dictate how I feel about the world.  I'm sorry I feel the way I do about a particular stance. Surely person on the internet, you are far more capable of running my own life.  

Such narcissism.


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Ah yes, dictate how I feel about the world.  I'm sorry I feel the way I do about a particular stance. Surely person on the internet, you are far more capable of running my own life.
> 
> Such narcissism.


You use a lot of words that you dont seem to understand like a suggestion or providing an alternative isnt dictating.

And lol to project such claims on others without any real evidence yeah I think you should probably think about the company and consider that maybe it is time to reevaluate your own thought processes.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> You use a lot of words that you dont seem to understand like a suggestion or providing an alternative isnt dictating.
> 
> And lol to project such claims on others without any real evidence yeah I think you should probably think about the company and consider that maybe it is time to reevaluate your own thought processes.



I know more than you realize, but who are you that I have to explain my life's story to? This is a furry forum on the internet. I merely have a stance on the topic and people don't like that, nothing more nothing less.

Okay, I'll let you in on a little secret: I never said anyone here specifically. I merely spoke about the thread discussion topic. If you're getting offended, that's your issue and not mine. Way to take general statements I say about the furry fandom in general and take it to heart.


----------



## KimberVaile (Mar 23, 2021)

Lawdy lawdy it's still going. Lmao


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

KimberVaile said:


> Lawdy lawdy it's still going. Lmao



Isn't that the point of threads to discuss topics?


----------



## TyraWadman (Mar 23, 2021)

Discussion > Getting the last word in an argument.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Discussion > Getting the last word in an argument.



Tell me, what am I to do? Just simply lie to myself and think it's okay that people draw their furry porn with actual animal willies, just so I can fit in with the "elite" here on this forum? I will not tarnish my principles. I am allowed to have a stance on a topic, even if it is "wrongthink".


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Discussion > Getting the last word in an argument.


Will be me! I win! What point did I make? I have no clue, something about popcorn, perhaps. But I won! Everyone can go home, now.


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Discussion > Getting the last word in an argument.


LPW rules?


----------



## KimberVaile (Mar 23, 2021)

If I were to stop now, my epeen would't get any bigger!


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

Imagine if all this energy discussing these topics were instead focused towards doing something productive and/or useful. We'd have populated half the galaxy by now.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Imagine if all this energy discussing these topics were instead focused towards doing something productive and/or useful. We'd have populated half the galaxy by now.



It's raining outside and I'm too worried about my aunt to study. I know how to manage my own time like an adult, thank you for your concern.


----------



## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Tell me, what am I to do? Just simply lie to myself and think it's okay that people draw their furry porn with actual animal willies, just so I can fit in with the "elite" here on this forum? I will not sully my principles. I am allowed to have a stance on a topic, even if it is "wrongthink".


No one is saying that. What is being said is that you shouldn't be calling everyone who has such in their art Zoophiles.
That is the issue how have you not grasped that yet? like dude XD wth.

It is one thing to be like "ugh I don't like that" and another to be like "Ugh I dont like that and those who do that are wanting to bang animals."

Like.... come on it isnt that hard to understand.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> No one is saying that. What is being said is that you shouldn't be calling everyone who has such in their art Zoophiles.
> That is the issue how have you not grasped that yet? like dude XD wth.
> 
> It is one thing to be like "ugh I don't like that" and another to be like "Ugh I dont like that and those who do that are wanting to bang animals."
> ...



Now show me where I "specifically" pointed out a user with the @ command and then called them out. I have not. I speak on a meta-level across all of the Furry fandom. If people are so triggered about me having a firm belief, they can just log off the forum. I didn't call out anyone, it's all in your insecure little heads.

Also, how are you sure they're not wanting to bang animals? I mean any artist out there, you don't know if they're the next Kero or not, now do you? I would also say the same to anyone in any fandom that drawn anything that wasn't just normal human consensual sex. Once more, you're taking my grievances with the topic on a meta level and then putting all sorts of insecurities about people who draw that on here to presume I'm calling someone out, I have not and shall not.

Also, please use spell check. You could really use it.


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Imagine if all this energy discussing these topics were instead focused towards doing something productive and/or useful. We'd have populated half the galaxy by now.


Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys but I feel I've at least made some new acquaintances so I'm pretty happy about that.


----------



## Raever (Mar 23, 2021)

Can a member be banned for blatantly insulting a mass majority of members via accusing them of (essentially) being rapists by being apart of the furry fandom...?
Or is that too "unaccepting" of us? I'm not sure since I've only been mildly/partially reading the conversation up until now, and I have no idea what's going on anymore.



Kuroserama said:


> Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys but I feel I've at least made some new acquaintances so I'm pretty happy about that.



You find out who is good for conversation, and who to block, real quick round these parts homeslice. ;D


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Kuroserama said:


> Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys but I feel I've at least made some new acquaintances so I'm pretty happy about that.



Maybe the real reward were the friends we made along the way.


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 23, 2021)

Kuroserama said:


> Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys but I feel I've at least made some new acquaintances so I'm pretty happy about that.


Discussions can be a good way to find new acquaintances, ye. Tho would depend on the discussion and who are involved, really.

Don't expect too much from Furries in general and you'll be surprised more often than not.


----------



## Odysseus (Mar 23, 2021)

Sir Thaikard said:


> Hey man, if you pay me enough I'll write a fanfiction about how Furry Dumbledore seduces Hillary Clinton only to be foiled when a FurAffinity admin self-inserts themselves in to woo both of them.
> 
> I have no shame and I am not about to judge the requests of my clients.


Now I kinda want to see this story...


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Odysseus said:


> Now I kinda want to see this story...



*Let me get Poly.*


----------



## Odysseus (Mar 23, 2021)

What is it about the internet that makes any thread like this inevitably end up as a nasty argument _at best?_


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Odysseus said:


> What is it about the internet that makes any thread like this inevitably end up as a nasty argument _at best?_



A variety of factors, anonymity, the fact some people maybe "offended". There is the fact that most people probably are just okay with speaking when they presume anonymity, plus the furry fandom isn't known for it's mental health. Not that I haven't seen other dramas, but it's mostly because "lol I'm way over here and you'll never meet me IRL".


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

Odysseus said:


> What is it about the internet that makes any thread like this inevitably end up as a nasty argument _at best?_


Ape brain. Human have ape brain. 
Poop throw fun. HHOOO HAH HOOOO HOO!!


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> Ape brain. Human have ape brain.
> Poop throw fun. HHOOO HAH HOOOO HOO!!



*GODZILLA VS MONKE*


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> *GODZILLA VS MONKE*


*King Kong:* _*shits all over the city*_ *Now the stage has been set. 
Godzilla:* *... Ew. *_*goes back into the ocean*_


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> *King Kong:* _*shits all over the city*_ *Now the stage has been set.
> Godzilla:* *... Ew. *_*goes back into the ocean*_



*King Kong wins, movie credits roll.*


----------



## TyraWadman (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Tell me, what am I to do? Just simply lie to myself and think it's okay that people draw their furry porn with actual animal willies, just so I can fit in with the "elite" here on this forum? I will not tarnish my principles. I am allowed to have a stance on a topic, even if it is "wrongthink".



I didn't say you couldn't voice your opinion on the topic. People reply. You discuss.  That's a conversation. Being disgusted/repulsed is fine. You're allowed to feel that way.
Random posts, back and forths/facts that don't add to the conversation and extend for multiple pages? No thanks.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> I didn't say you couldn't voice your opinion on the topic. People reply. You discuss.  That's a conversation. Being disgusted/repulsed is fine. You're allowed to feel that way.
> Random posts, back and forths/facts that don't add to the conversation and extend for multiple pages? No thanks.





TyraWadman said:


> I didn't say you couldn't voice your opinion on the topic. People reply. You discuss.  That's a conversation. Being disgusted/repulsed is fine. You're allowed to feel that way.
> Random posts, back and forths/facts that don't add to the conversation and extend for multiple pages? No thanks.



So, when other people do it, its okay, but when I do it it's not okay.


----------



## TyraWadman (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> So, when other people do it, its okay, but when I do it it's not okay.


I never said it was okay for anyone else to do it.

The thread was revived for a pretty decent and relevant post. Then it got derailed to_ this. _That is what I do not like.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> I never said it was okay for anyone else to do it.
> 
> The thread was revived for a pretty decent and relevant post. Then it got derailed to_ this. _That is what I do not like.



Well, I still have my stance on the matter, but it seems I'm in the lion's den.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Well, I still have my stance on the matter, but it seems I'm in the lion's den.


Could try defending it in some way that isn't just throwing about "deviance" and "moral decay" and your "higher standards" without defining any of the three.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Could try defending it in some way that isn't just throwing about "deviance" and "moral decay" and your "higher standards" without defining any of the three.



The problem: I do that and then people will just shit on me. I'm not stupid. I can say "oh yes I'm religious and I don't believe in people doing this" or I could say "oh yes as a artist I believe in ethics as an artist" and then I'll get shat on. I can very much go into how deviance ruins Deviantart and how many artists don't like it, but I'll get "I don't care lol." 

To my point, I could explain all my moves, but you cannot play with a pidgin who will just poop on the board.


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> The problem: I do that and then people will just shit on me. I'm not stupid. I can say "oh yes I'm religious and I don't believe in people doing this" or I could say "oh yes as a artist I believe in ethics as an artist" and then I'll get shat on. I can very much go into how deviance ruins Deviantart and how many artists don't like it, but I'll get "I don't care lol."
> 
> To my point, I could explain all my moves, but you cannot play with a pidgin who will just poop on the board.


Well, I mean, we're shitting on you and the board regardless it seems. We are quite content to do that, so long as you continue to move the pieces about so they're interesting. Unfortunately, this also means you aren't actually adding to the conversation, just doubling down on vague statements and a bit of gaslighting. So we're quite content to do the same. The thing about pointing out a trap is it doesn't do you much good if you still step in it.

I'm still a bit perplexed why, if DA is so much better, you're still here. You keep saying it, as if it's some sort of a threat or we should care.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Well, I mean, we're shitting on you and the board regardless it seems. We are quite content to do that, so long as you continue to move the pieces about so they're interesting. Unfortunately, this also means you aren't actually adding to the conversation, just doubling down on vague statements and a bit of gaslighting. So we're quite content to do the same. The thing about pointing out a trap is it doesn't do you much good if you still step in it.
> 
> I'm still a bit perplexed why, if DA is so much better, you're still here. You keep saying it, as if it's some sort of a threat or we should care.



Simple, you're the vocal minority, unless you say that everyone here on the fandom is just bad, but honestly it's simply that I know you're just the people who are the byproduct of the fandom, but not the fandom as a whole. Call me an optimist, but I don't put others in the same basket as you. People are upset on the internet, it's  just a normal day with people who have nothing better to do. Been there, done that. It comes to the point I just don't give a fuck what toxic people say and I focus on those who truly matter on here.


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

This thread now:


----------



## Ziggy Schlacht (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Simple, you're the vocal minority, unless you say that everyone here on the fandom is just bad, but honestly it's simply that I know you're just the people who are the byproduct of the fandom, but not the fandom as a whole. Call me an optimist, but I don't put others in the same basket as you. People are upset on the internet, it's  just a normal day with people who have nothing better to do. Been there, done that. It comes to the point I just don't give a fuck what toxic people say and I focus on those who truly matter on here.


You definitely just said you were a pessimist and always see the worst in people like 5 pages ago. Now you're seeing the best? You also said that because we won't stop drawing dog dicks, we're all deviants, but now it's only a minority. Man, for someone with such lofty standards, your consistency is crap. But maybe I'm too perverted to understand, in any case, it seems we're at the broken record part of the night so go and enjoy your dick-free porn or whatever it is you write. You can say you won if it makes you feel better.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> You definitely just said you were a pessimist and always see the worst in people like 5 pages ago. Now you're seeing the best? You also said that because we won't stop drawing dog dicks, we're all deviants, but now it's only a minority. Man, for someone with such lofty standards, your consistency is crap. But maybe I'm too perverted to understand, in any case, it seems we're at the broken record part of the night so go and enjoy your dick-free porn or whatever it is you write. You can say you won if it makes you feel better.



Well sorry if I am skeptical about a forum on Furr Affinity. But, I have to look past the chaff to find the wheat. Once again, the toxic vocal minority is what the furry fandom is known for. BUT, so is pretty much every other fandom.

I'm sorry, if you're drawing dog dicks, something is defiantly wrong with you. Case closed. You're a minority, but you're a creepy minority if you enjoy dog willies. Not sure why that's not grounds for excommunication in the fandom, but hey furries get their reputation. Probably are. 

Okay, bye bye.


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

I wanna say that I have no problem with animal willies on anthro characters even though I'm not into them personally. Acknowledge me for a judgment-free experience.


----------



## idkthough120 (Mar 23, 2021)

wait what, who oversexualizes again? 
i'm scared, is someone in trouble or is it OP who made this thread.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I wanna say that I have no problem with animal willies on anthro characters even though I'm not into them personally. Acknowledge me for a judgment-free experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And I'm allowed to find that absolutely gross. I'm entitled to totally disagree with you as well.


----------



## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> And I'm allowed to find that absolutely gross. I'm entitled to totally disagree with you as well.


Okay you have expressed that plenty enough now. 
I think it's best we drop it and not worry about who gets the last word because it really isn't important.


----------



## TyraWadman (Mar 23, 2021)

The Shy Dragon said:


> wait what, who oversexualizes again?
> i'm scared, is someone in trouble or is it OP who made this thread.


No one is in trouble. Just people debating things that are kinda unrelated to the opening post.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Well sorry if I am skeptical about a forum on Furr Affinity. But, I have to look past the chaff to find the wheat. Once again, the toxic vocal minority is what the furry fandom is known for. BUT, so is pretty much every other fandom.
> 
> I'm sorry, if you're drawing dog dicks, something is defiantly wrong with you. Case closed. You're a minority, but you're a creepy minority if you enjoy dog willies. Not sure why that's not grounds for excommunication in the fandom, but hey furries get their reputation. Probably are.
> 
> Okay, bye bye.


You draw boobs on cartoon hedgehogs.

Welcome to the fandom.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> You draw boobs on cartoon hedgehogs.
> 
> Welcome to the fandom.



Um, none of my characters are hedgehogs. XD


----------



## cowboi (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> You draw boobs on cartoon hedgehogs.
> 
> Welcome to the fandom.


finally someone fucking said it lol


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

cowboi said:


> ITT: hentai bad
> 
> finally someone fucking said it lol



Except, he's wrong. I have no hedgehogs. I have a lot of adult foxes. Plus, I will draw boobs on women, because women have boobs that show through their clothing.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Except, he's wrong. I have no hedgehogs. I have a lot of adult foxes. Plus, I will draw boobs on women, because women have boobs that show through their clothing.


Okay. ..cartoon ANIMALS.

And I'm a SHE.  

Kind of creepy to make boobs on cartoon animals, don't you think?  I mean, do they really need boobs?  Or do YOU really need them to have boobs?


----------



## KimberVaile (Mar 23, 2021)

This just keeps getting better.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Okay. ..cartoon ANIMALS.
> 
> And I'm a SHE.
> 
> Kind of creepy to make boobs on cartoon animals, don't you think?  I mean, do they really need boobs?  Or do YOU really need them to have boobs?



So by your logic, Sega should ban Rouge the bat. Because you know, biology is a thing.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> So by your logic, Sega should ban Rouge the bat. Because you know, biology is a thing.



Do you find animals with human breasts attractive?


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Do you find animals with human breasts attractive?



No,but I find women with breasts attractive. Most of my characters act more human than animal.


----------



## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> No,but I find women with breasts attractive. Most of my characters act more human than animal.


I just want to point out that "act" human and "look" human are a bit different. I think the whole discussion was about these parts on animal-esque beings is not appropriate, especially if you find them attractive. But you just said you find your women, (human-esque animals) attractive with boobs. I think this is the stuff that's causing some confusion.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Kuroserama said:


> I just want to point out that "act" human and "look" human are a bit different. I think the whole discussion was about these parts on animal-esque beings is not appropriate, especially if you find them attractive. But you just said you find your women, (human-esque animals) attractive with boobs. I think this is the stuff that's causing some confusion.



Well the thing is that my own characters while foxes, dogs, cats, wear clothing like humans, act like humans (Amanda is basically a mafia boss psychic witch whatever), and they have the social mannerisms of humans, like marriage and whatnot. I am also a pet owner, so someone having more feral things really upsets me.


----------



## KimberVaile (Mar 23, 2021)

6 pages of this, that's remarkable. I wonder if it'll get past the 30 page mark. 
Who wants to start taking bets?


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> No,but I find women with breasts attractive. Most of my characters act more human than animal.


They're still animals.

With human boobs.  

Because you find that attractive.

_Attractive_.

If it was just about the characters, they wouldn't need boobs, would they?  They could just be flat-chested.

But they're not.  You choose to give them a physical feature that you find attractive on human women.  Why?  

Apparently breasts turn you on a bit, no matter what species they're attached to?

Sounds a bit deviant to me.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> They're still animals.
> 
> With human boobs.
> 
> ...



Um no, they're Mobo Sapiens. You need to read the Archie Sonic comics, they're actually hybrids with human DNA in them from Xorda gene bombs. Yes, this was in the Archie Sonic comics.









						Mobian/Pre-SGW
					

Mobians (or Mobo-Sapiens) were mutated, evolved descendants of the former animal kingdom of Earth, existing on the planet Mobius. They were created as a bi-product of the Xorda's Gene Bombs, which lead to the mutation of the planet's inhabitants; however, some animals, such as Sonic's pet dog...




					archiesonic.fandom.com


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Well the thing is that my own characters while foxes, dogs, cats, wear clothing like humans, act like humans (Amanda is basically a mafia boss psychic witch whatever), and they have the social mannerisms of humans, like marriage and whatnot. I am also a pet owner, so someone having more feral things really upsets me.


Do you think that those of us in the fandom don't have characters with their own backstories, jobs, hobbies, skills and abilities? 

Do you think they don't ever wear clothing?  Do you think they aren't human-like?

It's becoming clear that, for all the time you spend on this forum criticizing the fandom, you really don't know much about it.

Which is why you are in denial that you're one of us.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Um no, they're Mobo Sapiens. You need to read the Archie Sonic comics, they're actually hybrids with human DNA in them from Xorda gene bombs. Yes, this was in the Archie Sonic comics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 That's all just worldbuilding stuff.

They are animals.  You said yourself, they're mostly foxes.

With boobs.

Why do they have boobs?

Can you answer that? 

Why did you choose them to give them a feature of human woman that is often considered "sexual?"


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Do you think that those of us in the fandom don't have characters with their own backstories, jobs, hobbies, skills and abilities?
> 
> Do you think they don't ever wear clothing?  Do you think they aren't human-like?
> 
> ...



Never said you don't, but still I don't to think of people making porn of what is basically near fully animal designs.

Never said that, once more you're just presuming what I never even stated.

You're right, because I never was into fur suits, and I never will be. I'm not one of you, I never wanted to be a furry. I just merely wanted to have fun and probably chat or roleplay. I don't even know where there's a furry convention even near rural Georgia, that's like in Metro Atlanta.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> That's all just worldbuilding stuff.
> 
> They are animals.  You said yourself, they're mostly foxes.
> 
> ...



No, they're not. They're evolved. Didn't humans evolve from apes? Are we not apes? Your not getting the whole "evolutionary" aspect of the Mobo Sapien.

Human DNA, literally humans got their DNA spliced with Overlanders and Mobians.


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Never said you don't, but still I don't to think of people making porn of what is basically near fully animal designs.
> 
> Never said that, once more you're just presuming what I never even stated.
> 
> You're right, because I never was into fur suits, and I never will be. I'm not one of you, I never wanted to be a furry. I just merely wanted to have fun and probably chat or roleplay. I don't even know where there's a furry convention even near rural Georgia, that's like in Metro Atlanta.


 I don't have a fursuit, either.

No interest in having one.  Not sure why you think that's a requirement to be in the fandom.

You're way more of a furry than you'll ever admit. . .


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> I don't have a fursuit, either.
> 
> No interest in having one.  Not sure why you think that's a requirement to be in the fandom.
> 
> You're way more of a furry than you'll ever admit. . .



It's not, and don't say I have anything against fur suits. They're not my cup of tea, but I'm not against them. I'm actually okay with furry conventions.


----------



## Deleted member 127940 (Mar 23, 2021)

bruh


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

ASTA said:


> bruh



bruh


----------



## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> No, they're not. They're evolved. Didn't humans evolve from apes? Are we not apes? Your not getting the whole "evolutionary" aspect of the Mobo Sapien.
> 
> Human DNA, literally humans got their DNA spliced with Overlanders and Mobians.


 Again, that's just worldbuilding.  I honestly don't care about the Sonic universe, I haven't played those games since the first couple came out on Genesis, and the franchise doesn't interest me at all.

Are you aware that many people's OCs come from mutations, or hybrids, or experiments of some kind?  They've evolved to be what they are now.  That doesn't mean they aren't animals of some kind.  Just like your "mobo sapiens."  Human-like animals.

That sounds familiar.


----------



## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Again, that's just worldbuilding.  I honestly don't care about the Sonic universe, I haven't played those games since the first couple came out on Genesis, and the franchise doesn't interest me at all.
> 
> Are you aware that many people's OCs come from mutations, or hybrids, or experiments of some kind?  They've evolved to be what they are now.  That doesn't mean they aren't animals of some kind.  Just like your "mobo sapiens."  Human-like animals.
> 
> That sounds familiar.



I am, and I have not said you cannot have more humanlike or clean furries.  It's not what I'm getting at.


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## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

Ah... I think I understand what’s going on here. 

Good luck, I hope you find what you’re after! It may be a tough road for you, and it’ll be easier if you accept some helping hands down the road.


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I am, and I have not said you cannot have more humanlike or clean furries.  It's not what I'm getting at.


Why do your female OCs have breasts, if it's not even a tiniest bit sexual for you?

Why can't they just be flat chested?  Do your male OCs have nipples?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Why do your female OCs have breasts, if it's not even a tiniest bit sexual for you?
> 
> Why can't they just be flat chested?  Do your male OCs have nipples?



Because, they have human female DNA, Rouge shows this.

Um yes, Grief has nipples under his fur.XD


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Because, they have human female DNA, Rouge shows this.
> 
> Um yes, Grief has nipples under his fur.XD


You choose to have a background for these characters that give you reason to give them breasts, then.  

Convenient.

But, go on, tell me how it's not a sexual thing for you because you're not really a furry.

They're just foxes with boobs because "human DNA."


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> You choose to have a background for these characters that give you reason to give them breasts, then.
> 
> Convenient.
> 
> ...



Yes, they have human DNA in them. They also have scientific fields that say "hey we evolved from both humans and animals", even Dr.Daniel states this. 

Um, yeah, because my characters have to use guns and fight in wars. They have to have jobs and fields of employment, they have to pay taxes, and probably Grief would annex Zootopia if he could. They act like humans.


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## Bababooey (Mar 23, 2021)




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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Yes, they have human DNA in them. They also have scientific fields that say "hey we evolved from both humans and animals", even Dr.Daniel states this.
> 
> Um, yeah, because my characters have to use guns and fight in wars. They have to have jobs and fields of employment, they have to pay taxes, and probably Grief would annex Zootopia if he could. They act like humans.


So, they're no different from many other OCs in the furry fandom.

Resistance is futile.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> So, they're no different from many other OCs in the furry fandom.
> 
> Resistance is futile.



Once more, read that if you don't really just make your porn to stare at dogs, then I have no problem with anthros being sexualized. It's when you basically get to Kero levels I get concerned.


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> Once more, read that if you don't really just make your porn to stare at dogs, then I have no problem with anthros being sexualized. It's when you basically get to Kero levels I get concerned.


And how often does that happen?

And who says we're making porn?

Maybe my character is in a long term committed relationship with her partner.

Who are you to judge, FoxyBoobs?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> And how often does that happen?
> 
> And who says we're making porn?
> 
> ...



I judge based on the main site. There's a lot of very questionable artists on there.


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## Kuroserama (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> I judge based on the main site. There's a lot of very questionable artists on there.


Let’s be fair, there are a lot of very questionable people on earth. 

Difference is FA is just literally a gallery waiting to be judged.


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Well, I mean, I've seen people make sex toys based on Sonic characters. . .and write some pretty strong NSFW fanfic involving the characters. . .so I'd say Sonic fans are pretty questionable as well.  You guys fit right in, and you're welcome here.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

Kuroserama said:


> Let’s be fair, there are a lot of very questionable people on earth.
> 
> Difference is FA is just literally a gallery waiting to be judged.



There's horrors I've seen that make me go "nope" even if I like giant art.


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## Lucyfur (Mar 23, 2021)

Clothes
Sentient
More evolved
Capable of consent
Has her own backstory and personality







Now tell me if she for the sake of argument was a species that has a knotted ding a ling because hey that’s Vegas baby! What do you think?

like she has a history has character has thought has clothes and everything BUT~ since she still did come from a different line of development has a different more “animal” ding dong.

what say you @Jaredthefox92


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 23, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> Well, I mean, I've seen people make sex toys based on Sonic characters. . .and write some pretty strong NSFW fanfic involving the characters. . .so I'd say Sonic fans are pretty questionable as well.  You guys fit right in, and you're welcome here.



It's not like I don't hate the Sonic fandom as well, well at least 'that' part of the fandom.


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 23, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> There's horrors I've seen that make me go "nope" even if I like giant art.


Um, good for you.

But you like humanoid animals with boobs.

But you're not a furry. . .because reasons. . .okay, got it.


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## Toasty9399 (Mar 23, 2021)

mama mia @Flamingo


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## Tendo64 (Mar 23, 2021)

jesus christ, i was gone for a few hours and seven pages of flamewar
FAF, you are an enigma


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## KimberVaile (Mar 24, 2021)

That has been quite an adventure so far, I can hardly believe it might actually come to an end.


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## Lucyfur (Mar 24, 2021)

Like I am gonna throw something out there

Some people might like oviposition now does this mean those people are suddenly going to be prone to offering their flesh to certain wasp breeds?
Tbh I say no I think they’d be more prone to the imagination with artistic mediums where it is a more sentient species like D’vorah from Mortal Kombat. 

like you can have intrigue with a mechanic and not have attraction to it outside of a certain scenario like sentience and consent.
There is kind of a line there y’kno?

Like what if there was a planet of K9 and they were smarter than us as they made it here with their own warp driven space vessels. And they are anthropomorphic dogs. They have sentience and intelligence they can consent and have jobs and skills and all this stuff, but they are evolved dogs still and as such they still have dog ding a lings. Would you find people wanting and consenting to intermingling sexually with these visitors to be gross and degenerate and deviants?


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## MaelstromEyre (Mar 24, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Like I am gonna throw something out there
> 
> Some people might like oviposition now does this mean those people are suddenly going to be prone to offering their flesh to certain wasp breeds?
> Tbh I say no I think they’d be more prone to the imagination with artistic mediums where it is a more sentient species like D’vorah from Mortal Kombat.
> ...


If a bunch of dogs can develop space travel and come to our planet, I personally wouldn't partake in intermingling because. . .eh. . .knots.

But I'd pat them on the head and say "who's a good boy" and give them some kibble.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 24, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> If a bunch of dogs can develop space travel and come to our planet, I personally wouldn't partake in intermingling because. . .eh. . .knots.
> 
> But I'd pat them on the head and say "who's a good boy" and give them some kibble.



I'd offer Sophia to be their queen on their world and foster human space dogo relations so we can go off in space and claim the galaxy for the Emperor while we fight off the Ork fungus menace.


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## Lucyfur (Mar 24, 2021)

MaelstromEyre said:


> If a bunch of dogs can develop space travel and come to our planet, I personally wouldn't partake in intermingling because. . .eh. . .knots.
> 
> But I'd pat them on the head and say "who's a good boy" and give them some kibble.


Lol understandable 
Tbh I’m of the Star Trek approach where hey yknow what if we fancy each other and find an attraction in personality  and such like why not?


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## Jaredthefox92 (Mar 24, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Lol understandable
> Tbh I’m of the Star Trek approach where hey yknow what if we fancy each other and find an attraction in personality  and such like why not?



I'm of the Warhammer approach, but dogs would be considered "abhuman", and therefore not as bad as say Eldar, Necrons, or Orks. How would we know they come in peace? I mean yeah, they're man's best friend on here, but out there?


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## ConorHyena (Mar 24, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Clothes
> Sentient
> More evolved
> Capable of consent
> Has her own backstory and personality


Consent me senpai!


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## Lucyfur (Mar 24, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> Consent me senpai!


Nothing is more sexy than consent


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## ConorHyena (Mar 24, 2021)

Lucyfur said:


> Nothing is more sexy than consent


unless your into non-con, I suppose.


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## Yakamaru (Mar 24, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> unless your into non-con, I suppose.


Do people here even know about F-list..?


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## ConorHyena (Mar 24, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Do people here even know about F-list..?


Hush. Do not taint the purity of this holy place.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Mar 24, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Do people here even know about F-list..?


Or e621...


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## Yakamaru (Mar 24, 2021)

I think this meme fits perfectly..




How this thread have been going on for this long baffles me.

My take is basically I don't care what people are into as long as they keep it to themselves and don't push it into someone else's face. It looks dumb if you do.


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## pingpong99 (Mar 24, 2021)

going to the store, y'all want anything


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## Lexiand (Mar 24, 2021)

pingpong99 said:


> going to the store, y'all want anything


Yes I would like a bag of Chester's Bacon Cheddar Fries.


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## Lexiand (Mar 24, 2021)

Mr. Fox said:


> Or e621...


Saw lots of memes about it.


Yakamaru said:


> Do people here even know about F-list..?


I only know about F-list because a blue feathered dragon talked about it on YouTube.


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## GentleButter (Mar 24, 2021)

ConorHyena said:


> do you think it may be time to summon the management, cause this does seem to be very politic-y now


*shoves popcorn in your hands*
sshhhh this is the good part!
*monch*


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## Lenago (Mar 24, 2021)

GentleButter said:


> *shoves popcorn in your hands*
> sshhhh this is the good part!
> *monch*


You gona share those?....


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## GentleButter (Mar 24, 2021)

lenago said:


> You gona share those?....


*dishes out some jiffy pop and movie theater candy*


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