# So I am planning to upgrade, but Conroe is...



## ADF (Feb 21, 2007)

I know Core Duo is where the performance is at, it is none debatable, however... I really dislike their motherboards. Over the years I have set several standards for my motherboards based on personal experience, Core Duo fails all of them. 

The first one is all my motherboards must come with a on board GPU, having your GPU die during coursework time is not fun! I've been looking around and 'I cannot seem to find any' Core Duo boards that have a on board GPU, since they are all SLI enthusiast boards I am not really surprised. I could have a cheap low end card gathering dust in some corner just in case my main dies (which happens more often than I like) but I find on board more convenient, besides my parents nick whatever hardware is lying around for friends/family setups.

The second is PCI slots, I like to have allot of them. Lets see you have your sound card, your TV card, I might get a PPU card one day and you never know what you may slot in one day e.g. additional USB slot card? All the Core Duo motherboards 'I have seen' only have 2 PCI slots, it seems to be a SLI motherboard thing as it is the same with AMDs, however as a none enthusiast gamer I would prefer more PCI over a second PCI-E x16.

The third and last requirement is value for money, I like to have good hardware but I stay far away from the enthusiast hardware prices. Why oh why are the Core Duo boards so expensive? I can get a decent AM2 board for 40-Â£50+ but for Core Duo I am looking at 75-Â£140+ for a decent one, that is for decent not high end!

So here is my dilemma; AM2 meets all of my requirements, but Core Duo is where the performance is at. Either way both can meet my Â£300 budget for motherboard+CPU+2GB ram (given that I pick the cheapest Core Duo motherboard) and Core Duo will still have slightly better performance as shown here. I have to say though that I like what I am reading about AM2+ and AM3 being backwards compatible with AM2 motherboards, sockets changing so quickly is how I got trapped on this crappy 754s in the first place. But I have future games to take into account so I have to get a CPU that will last me a while -.=.- jeez this decision is irritating, what does everyone else think?


----------



## Silver R. Wolfe (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm not too fond of the Core 2 Duo boards (those are the conroe ones, Core Duo is nothing special).  I'd go with the AM2 if you don't mind slightly lower performance.  Really, if you have a good video card, you probably won't see too much of a difference between the two CPUs in terms of performance.


----------



## goat (Feb 21, 2007)

onboard graphics suck cock, but you must be buying some sucky video cards anyway if they die often enough for them to be an issue that you to totally GIVE UP on having a separate graphics card...


----------



## ADF (Feb 21, 2007)

Yes on board video cards do suck, but if something happens to your main they are a life saver when you need to use your computer for work. As for my cards failing so much I have no idea why, I'm just unlucky I guess.

5200FX AGP â€“ Arrived broken, had to send it back. No PC for 4 days T.=.T
6600GT AGP â€“ No problems!
7800GT PCI-E - Arrived broken, had to send it back. Yay for on board 6100!
7800GT PCI-E â€“ Died two months ago, replaced with 7900GT due to warranty. Yay for on board 6100!

So you can see why I have made having a on board GPU mandatory.


----------



## goat (Feb 21, 2007)

u cant just buy a cheap little 40$ pos and stick it in your drawer or something so your parents dont start no shit?


----------



## ADF (Feb 21, 2007)

Yeah I could just buy a second card and keep it somewhere; but I would prefer to keep it on board, like I said it is just more convenient. I don't know why, I just don't like the idea of having a second card gathering dust somewhere just in case my own decides to croak. Besides it would only solve one of the three issues I have with the motherboards.


----------



## goat (Feb 21, 2007)

well then youd only have 2 things to worry about


----------



## yak (Feb 21, 2007)

Frankly i can't think of any application that would require the power of dual cores that is not a video coder/decoder or 3DMax /that/ much, that differences between Xeons and Athlons would matter.   Raw power in Xeons... maybe, but the memory bandwidth is twice in Athlons, which is more important, IMO... And i'm not even talking about native 32bit code execution and Crossfire(tm), which is marginally better implemented then SLI.
So, apart from being an AMD fanboy, those are the main reasons i'm going to stick with AMD stuff. They may be slow, but they're doing things the right way.

I'm just waiting for that new nForce chipset for the AM2 boards (forgot the name, nForce 700 or something), and the new Athlons 64 x2 with the DDR2 memory controller onboard to finally upgrade my old rig.


----------



## nobuyuki (Feb 21, 2007)

If an integrated circuit containing the graphics chip goes out, a new video card would be the least of your worries.  You'd probably end up having to get a new motherboard, which is why it doesn't make sense to put that stuff on a non-OEM part containing a core 2 duo.  You might see some retailers sell it, though, because it's cheaper and is a corner to cut for people who don't know any better.

Are you sure the new boards you're looking at only have 2 PCI slots?  Most ATX boards should have 4 or 5, and you won't need most of them if you buy a retail mobo because they have integrated everything which would commonly have basic features everyone needs but doesn't usually want to pay extra for (lan, usb, basic surround, etc).  

My recommendation to you would be to check out Intel's Mobo's.  They're not the cheapest but by far are the most reliable.  Of course, that means you'll be using an intel chip, too.  See if you can find a board that fits your needs, cause they got a bunch (and aren't decked out pieces of shit tin cans with rocket boosters taped onto the sides like the stuff MSI puts out).

Good Luck


----------



## goat (Feb 21, 2007)

"doing things the right way" 

what


----------



## ADF (Feb 21, 2007)

Bingo! A Core 2 Duo motherboard with a on board VGA and 3 PCI slots;  it is pretty expensive and the on board GPU is not a Geforce/ATI but I'll try to manage. My mistake was I didn't think to check for compatible Intel boards, silly I know but I have always had a nforce motherboard preference.

Taking that into account I know nothing about other motherboards, I know what to look for in nforce boards to see if they are good but I have no experience with intels chipsets. Can anyone rate the one I linked?


----------



## capthavoc123 (Feb 21, 2007)

I don't get the big deal about Core Duo or any of that crap. I got a Lenovo T42 with a Pentium M and a Radeon Mobility 9600 AGP card and all I've had to do is upgrade my memory to get the latest software to run fine. You don't need big bucks or the latest tech. to have a quality gaming or general computing rig.


----------



## ADF (Feb 21, 2007)

Yeah but try wandering around the imperial city market district in Oblivion during a busy day with that processor, or getting into a fight against multiple opponents outside. I'm currently running a AMD 754s 3000 and can handle pretty much any game I want, but in CPU intensive games like Oblivion the lack of performance can result in unplayable frame rates even on the lowest settings.


----------



## yak (Feb 21, 2007)

goat said:
			
		

> "doing things the right way"
> 
> what


My subjective opinion.


----------



## goat (Feb 21, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> goat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




o ok                      .


----------



## Kougar (Mar 27, 2007)

So, did you ever get that DS3? And if so, any problems with it? 

It's actually the one in my sig that I OCed (I got the version without onboard VGA), it's a pretty solid board now even if lacks a few of the higher end features or twin PCIe x16 slots. Surprised you would have an issue finding boards with 3 PCI slots though, especially with 975X boards.

Only difference between the GA-965P-DS3 and GA-965G-DS3 is VGA, price, and overclocking. At least stateside it's lower in price and not to good for overclocking, but it's been a solid board for me and the BIOS situation with them is finally not an issue. Just ensure to update the BIOS ASAP just encase you get/got a board with one of the original BIOS versions.


----------



## ADF (Mar 27, 2007)

I decided to sit on the fence and let AMD/Intel fight down the price a bit more, I hear April will be a interesting month ^.=.^


----------



## Kougar (Mar 28, 2007)

Intel has their new lineup of chipsets coming out, _Bearlake_, which amongst other things will push these boards to 2nd place, outdate the old 975X chipset, and introduce new G35 boards that will replace this one. Gigabyte already has early GA-G35-DS3 boards built and ready to use, whatever their nomenclature for it will be.

April will be the next round of price slashing, with July being the next round when the rug is yanked out under CPU prices again. AMD doesn't have the capacity to slash prices further, they are already teetering pretty badly right now, and slipping. For their sake I hope K10 lives up to the 40% greater than C2D interger performance as appearances indicate.


----------



## amtrack88 (Mar 31, 2007)

With AMD dual cores hitting the 100 dollar price range, I would say go with AM2. And the AM2 looks like it's going to have a longer life as far as upgrading. If you want an on-board VGA solution, you can easily find an AM2 board with an Nvidia 6100 chipset and graphics.


----------



## Kougar (Mar 31, 2007)

I wouldn't say that about a longer life. AM2 is being replaced by AM2+ for K10's launch... You can use AM2+ chips in basic AM2 boards but they'll run somewhat slower by all indications.


----------



## amtrack88 (Mar 31, 2007)

Yeah, you do have a point there. This reminds me of the socket 7 days. The AMD K6-2 and 3 (designed for Super 7 sockets) where compatible with the Intel 430 chip sets and socket 7, but ran at bottleneck speeds.


----------



## ADF (Apr 8, 2007)

Sweet Jesus have you seen AMDs latest price cuts?

Link

The AM2 6000+ going for that price, it is both price and performance competitive with the E6420 Conroe. If it wasn't for the fact that Intel is also planning a price cut this month I would argue that AMD has the best price/performance ratio for the mid range, this price war is crazy but oh so enjoyable to watch ^.=.^


----------



## Kougar (Apr 8, 2007)

You think this quarter's price cuts are amazing? Imagine buying a "E6800 @ 3ghz" for $300. Every other C2D will cost less than $300.  The QuadCore Q6600 is slated to be priced at $266. Intel will be dropping it to $500 something this quarter, and everything will fall to the above prices in Q3, which is July-Sept. I'm holding out for the $266 Q6600, using the new rumored low power stepping to hit the shelves, then I'm nabbing one for myself.


----------



## ADF (Apr 8, 2007)

Wouldn't it be grand if the same thing happened with GPU companies? Maybe then we would get smaller, more efficient DX10 ready graphics cards going at reasonable prices. Who knows when ATI releases their upcoming GPU maybe the DX10 range will look better.


----------



## Kougar (Apr 9, 2007)

Well actually... now that you mention it. :wink:

http://www.bootdaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=395&Itemid=59

I'm not to sure about those prices as there is plenty of mis-info being propagated about. However if they are true, then you can buy the more powerful R600 for $100 less than the 8800GTX MSRP, before the expected rebates and such occur. R630 XT prices are also quite interesting...


----------

