# I hate myself.



## um_pineapplez (Nov 5, 2016)

Do you understand why?

I feel like I'm the only person here who CAN'T draw. And I'm sick of it. I NEED to get better. I HAVE TO!!! I need to prove that I'm not just a one-trick fox! I can't fall into that rut! I CAN'T!!!!! But then I keep making excuses and I don't know how to stop making them! fuck fuck fuck fuck FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!! And NO ONE wants to help me! NO ONE!!!

Has it all been a waste? Is that wat 15 years of determination have led to? Nothing but broken dreams and despair? Do I even really have anything left to live for at this point?


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## BlueWorrior (Nov 5, 2016)

Pineapplez, this is not the way to get people to help you. I'm gonna be honest here: this post comes off as attention seeking and immature.
But at the same time, I appreciate that you're frustrated with not making as much progress as you might have hoped.
Whether you notice it or not, you are always growing as an artist if you keep practising.
I know it's not necessarily the same thing, but I didn't get to where I am now with my music production and taking a uni course I love by giving up.
But, man. You don't gotta get so dramatic about it. It'll be fine, _really._


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## Very Hairy Larry (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Do you understand why?
> 
> I feel like I'm the only person here who CAN'T draw. And I'm sick of it. I NEED to get better. I HAVE TO!!! I need to prove that I'm not just a one-trick fox! I can't fall into that rut! I CAN'T!!!!! But then I keep making excuses and I don't know how to stop making them! fuck fuck fuck fuck FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!! And NO ONE wants to help me! NO ONE!!!


Wait, were you the one that drew your profile pic though?


um_pineapplez said:


> Has it all been a waste? Is that wat 15 years of determination have led to? Nothing but broken dreams and despair? Do I even really have anything left to live for at this point?


Oh shut the fuck up, dude. You fucking kidding me? You shouldn't be this damn dramatic over this! xD


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## Mr.Foox (Nov 5, 2016)

Dude...don't be so hard on yourself! ;3; all artist go through this but your acting like your having a mid-life struggle. Just breath and we can talk it out if you want, I can listen and give advice privately if you want. You need to stop being so hard on yourself okay? I am here!


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## Guilleum2 (Nov 5, 2016)

Being good a drawing is just practice. If you want to get better why not try to set up a schedule for yourself? Say one week you dedicate to drawing faces, another week bodies, etc. It might help.


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## Mr.Foox (Nov 5, 2016)

Also it sounds like drawing isn't your real main problem here and something else is bugging you...


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## Andromedahl (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> And NO ONE wants to help me!


Gotta be able to help yourself a lil too y'kno.


um_pineapplez said:


> I feel like I'm the only person here who CAN'T draw.


Lots of people don't know how to draw but anyone -can- draw, just takes a lotta practice. You might not see change immediately, but a thing I've always found was comparing my work every year or so, shit changed. You will get better.


um_pineapplez said:


> Has it all been a waste? Is that wat 15 years of determination have led to? Nothing but broken dreams and despair? Do I even really have anything left to live for at this point?


I told myself this a year or two back. Now I think the opposite. I feel you will too eventually. 15 is a young age. Y'don't exactly know how your life is going to go from this point onwards, which can be scary, but also a pretty cool thing. You will find new things to live for if the current options don't appeal to you, and if your dreams are truly broken, it'll be hard to replace them, but you'll find new things that'll keep you going.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 5, 2016)

Guilleum2 said:


> Being good a drawing is just practice. If you want to get better why not try to set up a schedule for yourself? Say one week you dedicate to drawing faces, another week bodies, etc. It might help.


I never have time to set up a schedule. my parents plan it out for me anyway. 

NOT TO MENTION THE 7 FUCKING HOURS OF SCHOOL! THEY DON'T EVEN THROW IN A HIGH-QUALITY CLASS JUST TO BE FUCKING IRONIC!!!!

besides, everyone keeps saying I need to learn anatomy. But how do I do that? I don't have years. I need to learn in a relatively short time. I NEED to prove something!


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 5, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> I told myself this a year or two back. Now I think the opposite. I feel you will too eventually. 15 is a young age. Y'don't exactly know how your life is going to go from this point onwards, which can be scary, but also a pretty cool thing. You will find new things to live for if the current options don't appeal to you, and if your dreams are truly broken, it'll be hard to replace them, but you'll find new things that'll keep you going.


I DON'T HAVE FUCKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I WANT TO LEARN DRAWING AND ANIMATION! IT IS THE ONLY WAY FOR ME TO PROCEED! SEER OF VOID, DAMMIT!!!!


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## Very Hairy Larry (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I DON'T HAVE FUCKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I WANT TO LEARN DRAWING AND ANIMATION! IT IS THE ONLY WAY FOR ME TO PROCEED! SEER OF VOID, DAMMIT!!!!


What in the flying fuck is your problem??? tf do you mean you don't have any years, dude?


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## Guilleum2 (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I need to learn anatomy



Either take a life drawing class, ask your friends to pose for you a while, or teach yourself. Whichever is easier for you. Either way it's not going to just happen magically. Drawing takes a lot of work, animation even moreso. If you wanna get better faster then you need to be drawing a little every day.


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## Mr.Foox (Nov 5, 2016)

Holy shit your way to stressed for a 15 year old! When I was your age...actually I should leave that out. -w-


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Nov 5, 2016)

Pine, buddy, you have to give it time, patience, and lots and lots of practice. Stop being so hard on yourself. And I think I have said it before, stop with that suicide talk. It aint a joke. It aint funny.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I DON'T HAVE FUCKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I WANT TO LEARN DRAWING AND ANIMATION! IT IS THE ONLY WAY FOR ME TO PROCEED! SEER OF VOID, DAMMIT!!!!


I was like this once; I was shoved in a psych ward for a week and it turned out I was in a bad bipolar mixed episode. Not saying your mentally ill, cause I don't kno you. But I can say this is not a healthy way to think, bud.
If you're trying to prove others wrong and getting this rabid over it, you're probs doin art for the wrong reason.
If you're tryna prove yourself wrong and getting this rabid, you need to step back and realize you -do- have years; You have your whole damn life. It's good to outdo yourself and wanna push yourself, but there's a healthy way to do it and this ain't it. Go at your own pace, but don't slaughter yourself; Lighten up. Easier said than done sometimes tho.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 5, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> I was like this once; I was shoved in a psych ward for a week and it turned out I was in a bad bipolar mixed episode. Not saying your mentally ill, cause I don't kno you. But I can say this is not a healthy way to think, bud.
> If you're trying to prove others wrong and getting this rabid over it, you're probs doin art for the wrong reason.
> If you're tryna prove yourself wrong and getting this rabid, you need to step back and realize you -do- have years; You have your whole damn life. It's good to outdo yourself and wanna push yourself, but there's a healthy way to do it and this ain't it. Go at your own pace, but don't slaughter yourself; Lighten up. Easier said than done sometimes tho.


But pikapetey himself said! I need to do this to prove myself to others! I HAVE TO! I want to do this. He inspired me! Petey said it himself! It's hard! I need to push myself if I want to get better! I mean, if it works in swimming it oughta work in this time, right?

Oh, not to mention. Take a shot every time I've tried to strangle or drown myself in the past week so far.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But pikapetey himself said!


Who fuckin cares what he said.


um_pineapplez said:


> I need to do this to prove myself to others! I HAVE TO!


No y'don't.


um_pineapplez said:


> I want to do this. He inspired me! Petey said it himself! It's hard! I need to push myself if I want to get better!


Cool, I'm glad your inspired, but you're being detrimental to yourself. Legit I was literally in almost the same mindset last year and it only hurt myself, didn't help myself. I know not everyone is the same, but seriously, a man who pushes himself in a marathon and ends up breaking his leg during it doesn't push on, he quits and waits until he's healed and ready to get back on his feet. There's pushing yourself, and there's hurting yourself is what I'm getting at. and I feel you're hurting yourself.


um_pineapplez said:


> Oh, not to mention. Take a shot every time I've tried to strangle or drown myself in the past week so far.


I'm sorry you feel this way, but seriously, this stress you're putting on yourself isn't gonna help you not wanna die.


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## Very Hairy Larry (Nov 5, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I need to do this to prove myself to others! I HAVE TO!


No....not....not really, dude.


um_pineapplez said:


> Oh, not to mention. Take a shot every time I've tried to strangle or drown myself in the past week so far.


0 times, because now it seems like you're just seeking attention.


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## Very Hairy Larry (Nov 5, 2016)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! You're telling me this dude wants to fuckin die cuz he can't draw xDDDDD gtfo of here, dude.

It takes practice, man. I know that feeling of frustration you have, but you shouldn't be this damn dramatic over this.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> Who fuckin cares what he said.
> 
> No y'don't.
> 
> ...


But then how am I gonna get better? I need a schedule. I need to get motivated. I need to learn anatomy. I need to learn all this shit that I never knew you had to learn to be good at art. hell, I tried suggesting to mom that I quit swimming (which I have a varsity letter in though), and she blew a fuse, so I can't get that free time once it starts up.



Very Hairy Larry said:


> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! You're telling me this dude wants to fuckin die cuz he can't draw xDDDDD gtfo of here, dude.
> 
> It takes practice, man. I know that feeling of frustration you have, but you shouldn't be this damn dramatic over this.


ugh....you might be right. I've been walking around a huge city for the whole day, and I'm still kinda tired.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But then how am I gonna get better? I need a schedule. I need to get motivated. I need to learn anatomy. I need to learn all this shit that I never knew you had to learn to be good at art. hell, I tried suggesting to mom that I quit swimming (which I have a varsity letter in though), and she blew a fuse, so I can't get that free time once it starts up.


...Practicing everyday doesn't exactly mean you gotta knuckle down hella hard for hours a day. When I practice, I just do it when I can; Small doodles here in there, quick gesture sketches on scrap paper, I don't have the time to just eat, breathe, and make love to art everyday haha
You'll pick up on anatomy: Figure drawing as others have suggested is great, as is just doing sketches of animals as you watch them in motion be them in person or in film. 
LOOTS of tutorials and resources out there too, bud. You aren't gonna get better if you're stressing yourself out this much when trying to learn tho. You'll also find, when you reach a point you deem as 'good', you'll probs start getting antsy about that and think it ain't good enough, which is a common problem and can be a hard funk to get outta.

BLuh I'm kinda being tangental and rambly, but seriously, you don't need to sacrifice your other hobbies and scheduled events to practice; Every little exercise helps, as long as you aren't like, loathing it and stressing about it as much as you have been here.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

Our daughter only started drawing a few years ago and has only had art class in elementary school. But she draws everyday & carries a sketchbook around with her everywhere, in the car, if we go out to dinner, even at school for when she has free time. And she has improved dramatically!! She found something she drew about 2 yrs ago, and it was okay for where she was then. She decided to redo it & it is lightyears beyond the original! 

If you have time to be on here, then you have time to look up the Pinterest app or site. It's not just crafts & recipes. There are unlimited posts to help with any type of art there is. And there are plenty on how to do body-work. There are tutorials for everything on youtube too. Just search art tutorials.

You can't just depend on others to teach you tricks. Sometimes you just have to seek for yourself. Finesse comes with experience.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 6, 2016)

Don't worry, you're not the only who can't draw to save their life. 

It is stressful when you feel like there is no improvement in your art, but it's all about practice, practice, practice dude. When you feel like certain areas become second nature, move on and learn new techniques or methods. More often than not, doing so can improve on the areas you're already good at.

In any case.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

do you think most of us with these skills got here without strife? take me for example. ive been at this game for over a decade and a half and im still learning. that is the beauty of art. you are always learning new things. some people are born lucky enough to be able to do this naturally. and others like me had to work our asses off to get this far. moral is, dont think you have to get things done quick just because of what another said. take your time, there will be mistakes, a shiz ton of mistakes, but thats the best and fastest way to learn to draw.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 6, 2016)

I'll also point out, *don't be so hard on yourself! *No, seriously, you'll only lose heart, burnout and give up. Believe me that's a world of self-hatred you don't want and will only lead to depression...


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## tucakeane (Nov 6, 2016)

Hey man, skills aren't a done deal. You can't devote years to learning how to draw (and more importantly, practicing how to draw 24/7) and expect to suddenly be as good as these people who started drawing on day one and were semi-decent by the time they hit their 30's. Everyone is different.

People are too quick to sit here and say "don't be hard on yourself", but what they're really saying is don't give up even though you're not where you would have hoped to be. Artists are their toughest critics. They see their work on a subjective basis and often hold themselves to higher standards in their own minds- therefore, everything they produce they automatically hate.
BUT- that type of thinking of "this could be better" is the only way you'll improve. If you start looking at every piece you create and think "this is perfect! Go me!" then you'll never try to expand your repertoire or go outside of your comfort zone.

In other words- you may or may not be artistically inclined. There's no amount of classes, training, book learning or practice to make a non-creative person become creative.


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## nerdbat (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I never have time to set up a schedule. my parents plan it out for me anyway.
> 
> NOT TO MENTION THE 7 FUCKING HOURS OF SCHOOL! THEY DON'T EVEN THROW IN A HIGH-QUALITY CLASS JUST TO BE FUCKING IRONIC!!!!
> 
> besides, everyone keeps saying I need to learn anatomy. But how do I do that? I don't have years. I need to learn in a relatively short time. I NEED to prove something!


I work for 8.5 hours a day + 1 hour wasted on a ride to my workplace and back + all the chores like cooking and cleaning the house, yet I still manage to practice my guitar and do cutesy animations. As everybody said above, you don't need to prove anything to anybody - if everything, it can harm your actual progress, since people who aim for impressing others are more likely to go down to retracing stuff and finding other cheap ways to make a "good" drawing instead of actually increasing their skills. Cold-headed and self-aware approach will help you much more in a long run. 
I kinda remember when I learned myself to play a bar chord - it was a real pain in the ass at first, and I stressed myself out since I was already very late from my learning schedule, but then I just kinda put said schedule away for a while and devoted my time to learn the thing properly. It took a couple of months or so, but now it's just something I can do naturally, as well as many other guitar-related stuff, and all my concern about "wanting to learn fast" didn't really matter in a long run. Same with your artwork - don't be insecure about your current state and focus on developing your skills instead, no matter how slowly, and sometime later, you'll become a good artist, and the time it would take for you to do so will mean nothing in the end result.


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## nerdbat (Nov 6, 2016)

tucakeane said:


> In other words- you may or may not be artistically inclined. There's no amount of classes, training, book learning or practice to make a non-creative person become creative.


A very good post, but kinda disagree with that notion, since it sounds pretty much like "No matter how hard you try, you may just be a type of person who can't do anything creative for shit". There are actually many ways to increase or embrace creativity, including classes ad books - taking character design and visual design studies, watching analysis on various works of art and classic movies/animations, etc. What you probably wanted to say is that "hard work hardly works without trying to think outside the box" - if that's the case, I can see your point.


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## tucakeane (Nov 6, 2016)

nerdbat said:


> A very good post, but kinda disagree with that notion, since it sounds pretty much like "No matter how hard you try, you may just be a type of person who can't do anything creative for shit". There are actually many ways to increase or embrace creativity, including classes ad books - taking character design and visual design studies, watching analysis on various works of art and classic movies/animations, etc.


It's that whole nature vs. nurture argument. I grew up around music, love music, am always listening to it, been cross-trained on  many different instruments including vocals, all over the span of about 15 years. And I'd never consider myself a musician. Probably because I didn't spend my youth listening to music then came immediately home and spent the rest of the day practicing. 
Everyone I know who is "creative" is that way because every second they had free time they tried to hone their craft. It wasn't an obligation, they wanted to practice the second they had time. 
There's ways to increase creativity, yes. But the urge to go an easy route rather than challenge yourself during your down time is just human nature. 
Just look at most creative geniuses. They spent every free minute of their life honing their craft and still died hating their work.


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## nerdbat (Nov 6, 2016)

tucakeane said:


> It's that whole nature vs. nurture argument. I grew up around music, love music, am always listening to it, been cross-trained on  many different instruments including vocals, all over the span of about 15 years. And I'd never consider myself a musician. Probably because I didn't spend my youth listening to music then came immediately home and spent the rest of the day practicing.
> Everyone I know who is "creative" is that way because every second they had free time they tried to hone their craft. It wasn't an obligation, they wanted to practice the second they had time.
> There's ways to increase creativity, yes. But the urge to go an easy route rather than challenge yourself during your down time is just human nature.
> Just look at most creative geniuses. They spent every free minute of their life honing their craft and still died hating their work.


Welp, there's a certain truth to that, but I just don't think that a guy in question would beat himself up over not drawing well without having a certain degree of affection to the craft. There are people who have an opportunity or talent (certain advantage? I know not everybody likes the word "talent", lol) to learn something and use it without having said degree of affection (like with you and music, for example), and on the other side, there are people who really wish to see themselves doing all that stuff, but just don't know where to start, how to do it, and give up on it because of being pretty much lost. And well, despite the aforementioned argument about "human nature", one of the several things that separates us from other animals are discipline and ability to think ahead without relying on instinct alone. Which is, in my opinion, more than enough to learn the craft and be, ahem, "artistically inclined" for those who really wants to do so and give what it takes. It may as well be an "artistic incline", it's just not something that always comes with initial abilities, and the latter have to be practiced in other to advance with it further.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

I just don't wanna be remembered for only being a good swimmer. I wanna branch out, y'know? And I can be creative, but when I actually need to be, I can't figure out anything to do. 

eh, maybe I'm just trying to change an impossible to change fate. If all people are going to recognize is my swimming, then what's the point of trying to do anything else?


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## Andromedahl (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I just don't wanna be remembered for only being a good swimmer. I wanna branch out, y'know? And I can be creative, but when I actually need to be, I can't figure out anything to do.
> 
> eh, maybe I'm just trying to change an impossible to change fate. If all people are going to recognize is my swimming, then what's the point of trying to do anything else?


literally just caught this before I pressed the 'shut off' button on my comp, but I felt this way (shit you're p similar to past-me, you not my twin?) except replace swimming with academic skill :^p

You -can- be remembered as both a good swimmer and good artist. But, I don't believe in fate, so I think literally anyone can do pretty much anything within reason and have the ability to control quite a few things. Plus, I'm gonna say this, no one's really gonna remember or care toooooooo much about what y'did in highschool when it comes to a real life adult life, however I'm only 17, so I could be wrong, I'm just going off of stuff I've heard or seen from older people on this one. 

Highly doubt you're gonna be workin a 9 to 5 job and be known as "oh yeah, that's joe, he's a realllll good swimmer" as like a 30 year old :^P

So, you can be something other than a swimmer tbh. Free reign.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I have no control over any aspect of my life whatsoever. I wake up, go to school, come home, do homework, go to swim, come home, and cry myself to sleep every single day (well, I will when team swim starts. right now it's only monday, wednesday, and friday.) Really what's the point of trying to fight a system I can't change.
> 
> Besides. I cannot draw snouts or muzzles whatsoever.


if you truly want to learn something, you make time. thats what i did when i had two jobs and school. and i cant really do snouts or muzzles at the moment either so you are not alone. i just recently started a furry style.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

ariamis said:


> if you truly want to learn something, you make time. thats what i did when i had two jobs and school. and i cant really do snouts or muzzles at the moment either so you are not alone. i just recently started a furry style.


You do 'em better than I do, that's for sure.

not to mention how my parents dictate what I do for every minute of my life besides the spare bits and pieces of free time I have.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

Fall said:


> I feel like at this point you're just making excuses for why you can't get better. Everyone has given you advice and you're just keeping on about how you can't do it for x /y/z reason. Hard work and practise is the ONLY way you're going to improve, if you want to get better that much, that's your only option. It doesn't take long to start seeing improvements.
> Example: I work in a coffee shop. When it's quiet I draw in a sketch book or on a spare bit of cardboard. I've worked there for 4, nearly 5 months, and improved on human facial anatomy since I've been there. Like someone else said, you don't have to do full-blown marathons (which will in fact burn you out quicker because you'll get frustrated). Little sketches here and there are where it's at.


Exactly. How do I NOT make excuses? Everyone keeps telling me to do that but they're not telling me HOW.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Exactly. How do I NOT make excuses? Everyone keeps telling me to do that but they're not telling me HOW.


easy answer. just doodle. dont think. i doodle all the time at work. if you want a real picture, id say invison something in your mind and try to draw it. it will more than likely come out crap, but its how most of us work. ex: i want to draw my sona! so i make a mental picture in my head and try to translate it to a pad of paper using a pencil or pen.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

ariamis said:


> easy answer. just doodle. dont think. i doodle all the time at work. if you want a real picture, id say invison something in your mind and try to draw it. it will more than likely come out crap, but its how most of us work. ex: i want to draw my sona! so i make a mental picture in my head and try to translate it to a pad of paper using a pencil or pen.


I tried drawing this guy before.







This was the beta.


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## GunsForPaws (Nov 6, 2016)

Honestly, 5 minute sketches have helped me improve WAY more than like 8 hour pieces. Just decide what you want to improve on and focus on that. And there has to be SOME time you can use to draw, I mean, you have time to go on FAF so you should have time to draw. Again, just quick doodles can help you improve drastically, and if something doesn't look the way you want, it's okay. Even the most talented artists get frustrated at their art. It's normal. As long as you're seeing improvement, you should be happy. You're getting so worked up over it but it's not just gonna happen over night. If you REALLY want to be good at drawing, you must make time for it.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I tried drawing this guy before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



its not a bad start. a little bit of anatomy practice and you got a good base. just keep practicing.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

ariamis said:


> its not a bad start. a little bit of anatomy practice and you got a good base. just keep practicing.


But how do I learn anatomy? That's the big question that no one's wanted to answer.



GunsForPaws said:


> Honestly, 5 minute sketches have helped me improve WAY more than like 8 hour pieces. Just decide what you want to improve on and focus on that. And there has to be SOME time you can use to draw, I mean, you have time to go on FAF so you should have time to draw. Again, just quick doodles can help you improve drastically, and if something doesn't look the way you want, it's okay. Even the most talented artists get frustrated at their art. It's normal. As long as you're seeing improvement, you should be happy. You're getting so worked up over it but it's not just gonna happen over night. If you REALLY want to be good at drawing, you must make time for it.


Any time I try to do simple things they spill out into large messes that take the rest of the day to finish. It's like I'm looking at it, and then I notice that one thing I messed up on, and then I spend all day working on that little mess.


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## GunsForPaws (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But how do I learn anatomy? That's the big question that no one's wanted to answer.
> 
> 
> Any time I try to do simple things they spill out into large messes that take the rest of the day to finish.


Then only think about the things that need improving. If you can't draw muzzles, for example, try focusing on JUST drawing muzzles. Try to understand how they work at different angles and I promise, you will see improvement if you stick at it. Don't dive into anything too complicated if you're just starting out, maybe just draw simple poses to get used to the anatomy. And if you want to learn anatomy, there are some Youtube videos and websites that can help. I know, it is quite frustrating and tedious, but it's really the only way you can get better.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But how do I learn anatomy? That's the big question that no one's wanted to answer.
> 
> 
> Any time I try to do simple things they spill out into large messes that take the rest of the day to finish.


bro here is one of my pics from 5 years ago.



Spoiler











and this is a doodle that i drew of of the same character in january.



Spoiler











all i did was keep trying till i got here. one thing i learned is, you will learn to wrap your head around certain concepts as you draw. like anatomy, clothing, snouts and muzzles. it will just come to you the more you practice.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Nov 6, 2016)

Turn that frown upside down!


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

ariamis said:


> bro here is one of my pics from 5 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!! Like I said earlier...Finesse comes with experience!! The more you do something the better you will be!

Pineapplez, were you great at swimming the first few years you got in a pool?


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I just don't wanna be remembered for only being a good swimmer. I wanna branch out, y'know? And I can be creative, but when I actually need to be, I can't figure out anything to do.
> 
> eh, maybe I'm just trying to change an impossible to change fate. If all people are going to recognize is my swimming, then what's the point of trying to do anything else?


When I was your age, I had every intention of playing the French Horn all my life. I was a natural for it. Never really had to practice a whole lot, but I sat principal chair for 5 of my 8 yrs of playing thru middle & high school, and I did 4 yrs of marching band in HS and sat principal there for 3 of them. Figured I'd become a band teacher or at least something to do with music. But right before graduating, I made a complete change. I decided that I wanted out from under my parents control...





um_pineapplez said:


> not to mention how my parents dictate what I do for every minute of my life besides the spare bits and pieces of free time I have.


So I went a different route. Put down my horn & walked away from it. Haven't picked one up since. (My one regret in life.)

But 8 yrs after high school, I went into massage school. And now 12 yrs later, as I am nudging 40, I feel like I have finally found my place in this world. 

We don't know how fate will weave the tapestry of our lives. But you have time. Just don't stop practicing.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

And one more thing...you said you didn't want to be known 'just for swimming'? 


Who is Michael Phelps again?


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## Wolveon (Nov 6, 2016)

Congrats.


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## BlueWorrior (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> And one more thing...you said you didn't want to be known 'just for swimming'?
> 
> 
> Who is Michael Phelps again?


bhutrflai brings up a very good point. some of the greatest intelligent minds and artists had their starts doing somthing else. Famously, Albery Einstein worked in a patent office. 
Black Francis of Pixies worked in a warehouse before starting his band. I could go on. Point is that it takes time for somebody to rise to greatness. There's no use trying to rush these things.
You gotta start somewhere, man.


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> And one more thing...you said you didn't want to be known 'just for swimming'?
> 
> 
> Who is Michael Phelps again?


A human


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

EdgyMemeLord0 said:


> A human


Sometimes I think superhuman. But he didn't start out that way.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)




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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> Nice!! Like I said earlier...Finesse comes with experience!! The more you do something the better you will be!
> 
> Pineapplez, were you great at swimming the first few years you got in a pool?


Surprisingly enough, I was pretty decent for my age group. I only got kicked out of the first swim club because I threw a boot at someone (in my defense, they should've been more quiet when coming into the locker room.)


BlueWorrior said:


> bhutrflai brings up a very good point. some of the greatest intelligent minds and artists had their starts doing somthing else. Famously, Albery Einstein worked in a patent office.
> Black Francis of Pixies worked in a warehouse before starting his band. I could go on. Point is that it takes time for somebody to rise to greatness. There's no use trying to rush these things.
> You gotta start somewhere, man.


But after high school comes college, and then I'll be stuck for 4 years learning about....something. I don't know what I wanna major in yet. I'm only a sophomore.

Yes, I'm one of those people who takes their education very seriously. Which I am not proud of.

also who is black francis?


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Surprisingly enough, I was pretty decent for my age group. I only got kicked out of the first swim club because I threw a boot at someone (in my defense, they should've been more quiet when coming into the locker room.)
> 
> But after high school comes college, and then I'll be stuck for 4 years learning about....something. I don't know what I wanna major in yet. I'm only a sophomore.
> 
> Yes, I'm one of those people who takes their education very seriously. Which I am not proud of.


Then you're a natural swimmer. Great. Doesn't mean that has to be the only thing you ever try to succeed at. (I know you're trying to succeed at art. I know.) 

Patience is a virtue. Best to learn this now, cause your path will change many times in your life. It's how well you accept the changes that defines you. 

And there's is absolutely nothing wrong with being serious about your education. Thats a good thing in my book. I wasnt. But that doesn't mean I'm not successful. I didn't go to a traditional college. I went to Trade School. No biggie. I made my own way. All they did was give me the basics, and I developed my own style. 

No one has the right to tell you that you can't draw. If drawing is what is in your head & heart, then you will find a way. Don't push so hard. And please don't beat yourself up. Most things in life require baby steps.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> Then you're a natural swimmer. Great. Doesn't mean that has to be the only thing you ever try to succeed at. (I know you're trying to succeed at art. I know.)
> 
> Patience is a virtue. Best to learn this now, cause your path will change many times in your life. It's how well you accept the changes that defines you.
> 
> ...


but it is a bad thing because I'm so obsessed with it that it's getting in the way of me being a better drawing. I've already started. And I've got some good art now (as long as it's not anthros. the only one I'm good at in that retrospective is Toriel.) But it's shit and I've got zero self-esteem, no sense of organization, zero creativity when it comes to art (I thought furries were supposed to be good at that), and I've utterly fucked myself over at this point haven't i?


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> but it is a bad thing because I'm so obsessed with it that it's getting in the way of me being a better drawing. I've already started. And I've got some good art now (as long as it's not anthros. the only one I'm good at in that retrospective is Toriel.) But it's shit and I've got zero self-esteem, no sense of organization, zero creativity when it comes to art (I thought furries were supposed to be good at that), and I've utterly fucked myself over at this point haven't i?



bro. i go through that every time i try to draw. my job usually drains the soul out of me each day, but i still try to draw even if i dont have the motivation or creativity. and plus, im not even going to go to college. waste of money for stuff i already know or will learn hands on.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> but it is a bad thing because I'm so obsessed with it that it's getting in the way of me being a better drawing. I've already started. And I've got some good art now (as long as it's not anthros. the only one I'm good at in that retrospective is Toriel.) But it's shit and I've got zero self-esteem, no sense of organization, zero creativity when it comes to art (I thought furries were supposed to be good at that), and I've utterly fucked myself over at this point haven't i?


you've only fucked yourself over by thinking the way your thinking. You've got to give yourself a break. You're going to give yourself a heartattack. Not every furry is going to be good at art. I'm not. Okami's not. Seriously??

We have a 16 yr old son. And we are both young enough to remember what it's like to be a teenager. The no self-esteem, no creativity, no sense of organization (which I still don't have), all that shit is part of growing up. (Still trying to work on the esteem & creativity too, tbh.) 

You live you life in chapters. Stop trying to rush thru your book. Things & interests will come into & go out of your life, just like people. If it's meant to be, it will be. I've said before...just breathe. And practice.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> you've only fucked yourself over by thinking the way your thinking. You've got to give yourself a break. You're going to give yourself a heartattack. Not every furry is going to be good at art. I'm not. Okami's not. Seriously??
> 
> We have a 16 yr old son. And we are both young enough to remember what it's like to be a teenager. The no self-esteem, no creativity, no sense of organization (which I still don't have), all that shit is part of growing up. (Still trying to work on the esteem & creativity too, tbh.)
> 
> You live you life in chapters. Stop trying to rush thru your book. Things & interests will come into & go out of your life, just like people. If it's meant to be, it will be. I've said before...just breathe. And practice.


Stop giving me such generic answers! I need step by step things! It's how I work!


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

-3- we are trying to help and you lash out at us. r00d bro.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Stop giving me such generic answers! I need step by step things! It's how I work!


No one can teach you how to be patient. Thats a learned thing. That's why it's a virtue. No one can teach you how to practice either. I already mentioned finding tutorials. The internet is full of them if you just bother to look.  

I'm trying to offer sound advice as an acquaintance. 


I don't think you'd want to hear what I have to say from a moms point of view.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> No one can teach you how to be patient. Thats a learned thing. That's why it's a virtue. No one can teach you how to practice either. I already mentioned finding tutorials. The internet is full of them if you just bother to look.
> 
> I'm trying to offer sound advice as an acquaintance.
> 
> ...


I found a tutorial, and I've tried to do straight lines. It's just that no matter how hard I try, the pencil always moves to the left or right no matter what grip I use.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

lets say it together class, P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E   M-A-K-E-S    P-E-R-F-E-C-T


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> We have a 16 yr old son. /QUOTE]


Imagine that moment where he finds out that you both are furries..........


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

ariamis said:


> lets say it together class, P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E   M-A-K-E-S    P-E-R-F-E-C-T


but even then, what do I practice? I can't think of anything to do!


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

EdgyMemeLord0 said:


> Imagine that moment where he finds out that you both are furries..........


Oh, both kids know. Okami found furries at MomoCon last May & it has been a daily (if not hourly) topic of conversation in our house. We're not trying to be the coolest parents in the block, but we def believe in letting our kids find themselves, cause we are both pretty open minded peeps. (But alot of their friends tell us that we are the coolest parents they've ever met!) 

I mean, we took them to the Cloud Nine Rave at Momo. And had a blast!!!


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> Oh, both kids know. Okami found furries at MomoCon last May & it has been a daily (if not hourly) topic of conversation in our house. We're not trying to be the coolest parents in the block, but we def believe in letting our kids find themselves, cause we are both pretty open minded peeps. (But alot of their friends tell us that we are the coolest parents they've ever met!)
> 
> I mean, we took them to the Cloud Nine Rave at Momo. And had a blast!!!


Are your children also furries...  or not (yet)


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## BlueWorrior (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> Oh, both kids know. Okami found furries at MomoCon last May & it has been a daily (if not hourly) topic of conversation in our house. We're not trying to be the coolest parents in the block, but we def believe in letting our kids find themselves, cause we are both pretty open minded peeps. (But alot of their friends tell us that we are the coolest parents they've ever met!)
> 
> I mean, we took them to the Cloud Nine Rave at Momo. And had a blast!!!


Oh, to have furry parents... that's gotta be an interesting experience xD
bless you both, you really DO both sound like the coolest parents ever!


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> but even then, what do I practice? I can't think of anything to do!


Draw anything. Draw everything. Trees, landscapes, vehicles, clothes. Just sketch one thing from different angles, whatever comes into your mind. Cartoon, realistic, pop art, anything! And try other avenues too. (Our daughter does paintings, oil pastels, but mostly pencil & sharpie on paper.)

But don't stress so much about perfection. Look up Bob Ross (hippie painter) on youtube. He always says "we don't make mistakes, only happy accidents." Words to live by.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

EdgyMemeLord0 said:


> Are your children also furries...  or not (yet)


We have our wonderings about our girl, she has dropped a few hints along the way. Our son just rolls with it.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> Draw anything. Draw everything. Trees, landscapes, vehicles, clothes. Just sketch one thing from different angles, whatever comes into your mind. Cartoon, realistic, pop art, anything! And try other avenues too. (Our daughter does paintings, oil pastels, but mostly pencil & sharpie on paper.)
> 
> But don't stress so much about perfection. Look up Bob Ross (hippie painter) on youtube. He always says "we don't make mistakes, only happy accidents." Words to live by.


I don't wanna draw trees. I suck at landscapes. I can't draw 3d for shit. I can't do vehicles. clothes always look so weird on people. how do I do angles? what is realistic? if pop art is modern or has anything to do with modern culture, it's shit. the only thing I'm good at is sculpting, which I don't want to be. I WANT TO DRAW!!!!!


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## EdgyMemeLord0 (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> We have our wonderings about our girl, she has dropped a few hints along the way. Our son just rolls with it.


Damn, a furry family would be actually a nice thing.....


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

BlueWorrior said:


> Oh, to have furry parents... that's gotta be an interesting experience xD
> bless you both, you really DO both sound like the coolest parents ever!


I was raised in a pretty strict home, Okami was allowed alot more freedoms & experienced more. We try to be very fair with our kids, but they have always had rules to follow. We taught them to respect their fellow human beings and not see color. To only have hate towards someone if that person has chosen to harm others. 

We discipline when necessary, and totally reward the achievements. We are truly proud of our kids and we show them that. Now that they are teens, we're teaching them to be adults. How to face the stupidities of the real world. How to stand on their own two feet. (And how to clean the damn toilet & wash their own clothes & dishes.  )

Parenthood is nothing like I thought and more than I could have ever imagined!! But it's sure not for the faint of heart!


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I don't wanna draw trees. I suck at landscapes. I can't draw 3d for shit. I can't do vehicles. clothes always look so weird on people. how do I do angles? what is realistic? if pop art is modern or has anything to do with modern culture, it's shit. the only thing I'm good at is sculpting, which I don't want to be. I WANT TO DRAW!!!!!


As I tell our son all the time...maybe you just need to expand your thinking. If you close yourself off to something, it's your loss. How do you know that (with practice, of course) that you wouldn't be the next great landscape artist of the 21st century?? Stop selling yourself short & stop blocking stuff just cause you think it's stupid. 

You learn from everything in life. (but you aren't old enough to have learned that yet.)


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

And btw, most artists don't draw perfectly straight lines either. Thats why it's called 'sketching & drawing'. Not 'being able to make perfect lines'.


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## Jarren (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> clothes always look so weird on people.


Why do you think that the "artistic nude" and outright smut are so popular? Without reference, clothes were absolutely infuriating to draw (at least for me during the high school art classes I took).


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

Tutorials, tutorials, tutorials. Do your own research. Thats why the gods invented Google.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)




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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

That took me all of about 10 seconds to find on Pinterest. YOU have to do your own legwork sometimes.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Surprisingly enough, I was pretty decent for my age group. I only got kicked out of the first swim club because I threw a boot at someone (in my defense, they should've been more quiet when coming into the locker room.)
> 
> But after high school comes college, and then I'll be stuck for 4 years learning about....something. I don't know what I wanna major in yet. I'm only a sophomore.
> 
> ...



You best do yourself a favour and make sure you pick a good degree like computer science or STEM


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> View attachment 14863 View attachment 14864 View attachment 14865 View attachment 14866 View attachment 14867 View attachment 14868


I tried using those tutorials.






This was the fucking result, mind you.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

So, you haven't drawn anything since 2012? Then there's your problem.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> So, you haven't drawn anything since 2012? Then there's your problem.


what? no. My camera's date is outta whack. This was drawn a month or two ago. I've done other things.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

Hey, by the way, I've decided to draw some characters from this one snes RPG. Any help on drawing that one pose? You know, where the character has their back turned to the camera but is casting a sideways glance at it?


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

And now I'm banned from Pikapetey's livestreams.

Please. I need to do this now. I need him to forgive me. I need to be on good terms with my idol.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Please. I need to do this now. I need him to forgive me. I need to be on good terms with my idol.


No y'don't. He's not like, some demigod, he's just another person like the rest of us. You don't need to impress people like us, therefore you don't need to impress him or somethin'. 
Essentially, I don't really see the point -why- you necessarily_ need _to be on good terms with him. It's okay to have personal idols but seriously, so what he banned you; This ain't gonna matter when you're older.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> No y'don't. He's not like, some demigod, he's just another person like the rest of us. You don't need to impress people like us, therefore you don't need to impress him or somethin'.
> Essentially, I don't really see the point -why- you necessarily_ need _to be on good terms with him. It's okay to have personal idols but seriously, so what he banned you; This ain't gonna matter when you're older.


But it does. I can't use the chat on his livestreams and I wanna apologize. I pushed his best friend over the edge, even though said person is usually kind and understanding. I really fucking have to do this.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But it does. I can't use the chat on his livestreams and I wanna apologize. I pushed his best friend over the edge, even though said person is usually kind and understanding. I really fucking have to do this.


Wait before doing so. Running in emotionally charged is gonna make it more likely to go south if y'do it now. Even then, I wouldn't recommend seeking out their contact info and shit trying to apologize outta the blue almost; It might look a lil awkwardly clingy, but I tend to be overly conscious about that stuff so I can be wrong. Generally, when someone bans you, y'move on. At least thats what I think, but everyone's diff.

I still think waiting to calm down is smart tho.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> Wait before doing so. Running in emotionally charged is gonna make it more likely to go south if y'do it now. Even then, I wouldn't recommend seeking out their contact info and shit trying to apologize outta the blue almost; It might look a lil awkwardly clingy, but I tend to be overly conscious about that stuff so I can be wrong. Generally, when someone bans you, y'move on. At least thats what I think, but everyone's diff.
> 
> I still think waiting to calm down is smart tho.


But I am calm. More than I usually am. I know what I need to do. I have to get on his level. Once I'm as good as him, he'll forgive me. So I might as well make every second count.

Time to start skipping classes.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

bad idea.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

ariamis said:


> bad idea.


No it isn't. I need all the time I can get to draw. Sleep is irrelevant (despite what my parents think), and school is only hindering me. I need to devote myself wholly if I want to be good at this point in time.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> No it isn't. I need all the time I can get to draw. Sleep is irrelevant (despite what my parents think), and school is only hindering me. I need to devote myself wholly if I want to be good at this point in time.


BAD IDEA.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I have to get on his level. Once I'm as good as him, he'll forgive me.


...Skill ≠ 'good person'. If you get 'on someone's level' with skill, that ain't gonna make em forgive you. Maybe in highschool when people are going off of shallow shit like "oh shit scott skateboards hella good". People that only forgive your or like you for your skill alone are not friends or really good people. Actions and words with -meaning- get shit done.


um_pineapplez said:


> Time to start skipping classes.


Stop and think please.


um_pineapplez said:


> No it isn't. I need all the time I can get to draw. Sleep is irrelevant (despite what my parents think), and school is only hindering me. I need to devote myself wholly if I want to be good at this point in time.


Seriously stop. What's your damage? I honestly think you sorta... Need help. That we cannot provide. Because if you're just gonna keep with this mindset, REALLY bad shit's gonna go down, and it doesn't seem you wanna listen.

Anyways, I'm done here. Have fun with your teen angst.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 6, 2016)

But I tried apologizing. He banned me afterwards. He himself said he would forgive me if I actually stopped moping and started drawing.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But I tried apologizing. He banned me afterwards.


Ok I said I was done but I'm just gonna add this in;
It doesn't matter -when- he banned you, what I'm trying to comment on is your proposed method on getting him to like you, post ban. Do not only pursue art to impress some random dude on the internet. I'm gonna restate this again: You probably do not. matter. to him. You're a person on the internet he probs doesn't know. You do not. have. to. impress. him. Or get on his good side.

Honestly, please don't take this super personally, but if I were doing a stream and you walked in with the attitude you've had going on here, I probs would mute or ban you too. I'm sure you're not a bad person, but seriously. You need to step back and kick it down a notch.


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## JumboWumbo (Nov 6, 2016)

Oh boy, another "pineapplez whines like a bitch yet never listens to advice" episode.

Look, man. You really want to get better? Then stop complaining and actually do something. If you have time to bitch on this forum, then you have time to draw. Even if it's just five minutes a day, every little bit helps. The only thing stopping you is _you. _You aren't going to achieve shit sitting around in self-loathing.



um_pineapplez said:


> Please. I need to do this now. I need him to forgive me. I need to be on good terms with my idol.



I'm not even to say anything about this. I'll just present you with a SpongeBob clip.








um_pineapplez said:


> He himself said he would forgive me if I actually stopped moping and started drawing.


Yet the first thing you did was come here and mope. Holy shit, dude.


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## bhutrflai (Nov 6, 2016)

I cannot even wrap my head around why you would give 2 shits what this Internet guy thinks of you. And I really don't think he is just sitting around waiting for you to produce a masterpiece so he can unblock you. 

Unfortunately, if you skip classes, your parents WILL find out & you will be in a bigger mess than if you just let whatever happens happen, and stop whining about poor little you. 

Just like I said in the thread about telling your parents about being a furry, it's time to grow up. 

If your interested, my daughter said I could post her sketch from a couple yrs ago & the redo. But I'm guessing you probably wont care since I'm not telling you how to draw anatomy or holding your hand to help you draw a straight line.


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## ariamis (Nov 6, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> I cannot even wrap my head around why you would give 2 shits what this Internet guy thinks of you. And I really don't think he is just sitting around waiting for you to produce a masterpiece so he can unblock you.
> 
> Unfortunately, if you skip classes, your parents WILL find out & you will be in a bigger mess than if you just let whatever happens happen, and stop whining about poor little you.
> 
> ...


straight lines are for scrubs. chicken scratch is where its at.


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## Cyco-Dude (Nov 6, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I feel like I'm the only person here who CAN'T draw.


um...how well you can draw does not reflect on your value as a human being.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

ariamis said:


> straight lines are for scrubs. chicken scratch is where its at.


Scratch?






  ( SCRATCH?!?!?! )


Okay, I'll admit. I was overreacting, but still. That stream was the only one I actually liked watching because its chat wasn't one of those machine-gun ones where the chat goes by without ever being able to see what people are saying.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

bhutrflai said:


> I cannot even wrap my head around why you would give 2 shits what this Internet guy thinks of you. And I really don't think he is just sitting around waiting for you to produce a masterpiece so he can unblock you.
> 
> Unfortunately, if you skip classes, your parents WILL find out & you will be in a bigger mess than if you just let whatever happens happen, and stop whining about poor little you.
> 
> ...


Also yeah, I'm cool with dat sh!t. Go right ahead and post it.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

Alllll alone again. *Sigh* I'm used to it at this point. Just keep telling me to build up my confidence but don't tell me how.


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## BlueWorrior (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Alllll alone again. *Sigh* I'm used to it at this point. Just keep telling me to build up my confidence but don't tell me how.


Don't pretend like we haven't been trying to help you for 5 pages! If you wish not to take our advice, that's your prerogative, but don't act like we didn't try. 
There's only so much a forum can do for you. We're not professionals, we are all just average joes and we've tried to help you, but despite all that, you still act like we didn't do anything for you.
What more do you want? you want me to come over your house and tell you how to build confidence exactly somehow? no, because that's dumb.
Look, man. I wanna try to be helpful with your endeavours because you seem like a decent kid, but get a grip. We're all trying here. if you can't accept our words, then I don't know what to tell you, mate.


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## tucakeane (Nov 7, 2016)




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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

How am I supposed to MAKE myself happy, huh? How? By having friends? Good luck with that. Everyone fucking hates me! by feeling good about myself? I've fucked up too many times to remember the good times. I just cannot be happy.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

Iiiiii'm waiting. How do I be happy? I've got a counselor saying i should consider medication, but I don't want that sh!t. It messes with your head, y'know?


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 7, 2016)

Probably best to leave other real life issue out of the equation, it's an art problem that's the main focus here. Point is, you can either wallow in self-pity, get nothing done and be miserable, or you can do the things you love that make you happy.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

Mr. Fox said:


> Probably best to leave other real life issue out of the equation, it's an art problem that's the main focus here. Point is, you can either wallow in self-pity, get nothing done and be miserable, or you can do the things you like that make you happy.


So the real question here is, "what makes me happy?"

The plot *intensifies*.

I mean, with how obsessed I am with drawing, shouldn't that make me happy on its own? because it isn't. And I don't know why.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> I mean, with how obsessed I am with drawing, shouldn't that make me happy on its own? because it isn't. And I don't know why.



I'd say stress and frustration has a bit to do with it. Thing is, you never got as good as you are now without improvement, that alone should be reason enough to not be so hard on yourself. If anything, you've just hit an "art block" and need to devise a way to push through it or take a break.


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## GunsForPaws (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> How am I supposed to MAKE myself happy, huh? How? By having friends? Good luck with that. Everyone fucking hates me! by feeling good about myself? I've fucked up too many times to remember the good times. I just cannot be happy.


You're just pushing our help away from you at this point. We've taken time our of our lives to help you, and you still have excuses not to draw. And you've completely changed the subject (and having FRIENDS that make you happy isn't you creating your own happiness but I know, it's hard to make your own happiness and even I can't create my own happiness so I feel you there). Anyway, if art is your true passion and will make you happy, then you must make time for it. You have plenty of time to whine about your life on here so you have time to draw. We've given you so much help on how to get started but you STILL don't know how to start (and it seems you don't even want to either). From your attitude it seems like you really don't have the motivation to draw, or else you would've taken our advice and drawn something already. It's getting quite annoying now, and you haven't shown ANY appreciation for the help we've given you.


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## ariamis (Nov 7, 2016)

anyone got a sledge hammer? cuz i see a wall that im trying to talk to.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Iiiiii'm waiting. How do I be happy? I've got a counselor saying i should consider medication, but I don't want that sh!t. It messes with your head, y'know?


I beg to differ.
Meds do have side effects, but they've helped me to actually... Live my life and get me to a point where I could actually find my own happiness and stability again.

No shame in taking em if you choose so in the future.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

Andromedahl said:


> I beg to differ.
> Meds do have side effects, but they've helped me to actually... Live my life and get me to a point where I could actually find my own happiness and stability again.
> 
> No shame in taking em if you choose so in the future.


But I've heard stories about all of these side-effects that come with taking them. I don't want any of that to happen. I like the way I am without any form of drugs.

Well okay, that last part was a complete lie, but I would rather be one of those people that don't have to take meds to feel good about themselves.

I mean, yeah, I worked on a drawing I'd been doing for awhile now, so I've advanced in that point, but I still feel really depressed.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> How am I supposed to MAKE myself happy, huh? How? By having friends? Good luck with that. Everyone fucking hates me! by feeling good about myself? I've fucked up too many times to remember the good times. I just cannot be happy.


Question: Are you at school while writting all this?


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

Okami_No_Heishi said:


> Question: Are you at school while writting all this?


I was, but I'm back at home right now.


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## tucakeane (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But I've heard stories about all of these side-effects that come with taking them. I don't want any of that to happen. I like the way I am without any form of drugs.



The problem with meds is they affect everybody differently. That's why you shouldn't let that deter you. While some people abuse their medication (or worse, other people's medication) and some complain it makes them too spacey, like Andro said they can be beneficial. If you don't like them, get off them. But it's worth a try, especially if your counselor is suggesting it.


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## Andromedahl (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But I've heard stories about all of these side-effects that come with taking them.


Well yeah I'm not saying meds aren't dangerous; They started me with SSRI's for unipolar depression which ended up hurting me until they learned it was bipolar depression and that led to months of trying to get over what the initial meds did and finding the right combo that actually keeps me in check. Even my current meds have specific side effects that are a big ol' negative, but I'll take 'em over being suicidal or frantically aggro any day of the damn week.


um_pineapplez said:


> but I would rather be one of those people that don't have to take meds to feel good about themselves.


I hope there is no condescension in that sentence, bud.

Anyways, don't deny yourself something that could potentially help. Meds can be scary at first and there are concerns to have, and it's a lottta trial and error. but it can be worth it.


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## Okami_No_Heishi (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> But I've heard stories about all of these side-effects that come with taking them. I don't want any of that to happen. I like the way I am without any form of drugs.
> 
> Well okay, that last part was a complete lie, but I would rather be one of those people that don't have to take meds to feel good about themselves.
> 
> I mean, yeah, I worked on a drawing I'd been doing for awhile now, so I've advanced in that point, but I still feel really depressed.


Buddy, depression sucks! It does. It is very real and very overwhelming. Are you on meds for it? Do you take them like you should? Seems a lot of us on here worry about you. Do you think anyone would even reply if they didn't care? Nobody can tell you how to be happy. Noone can tell you how to make friends. These are some of the things everyone on this planet really has to figure out on there own. But know this: YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! YOU ARE SPECIAL!! I am sure a lot of us on here have been where you are now. I was. My wife was. We still deal with depression. Even after all these years. You will learn how to deal with it, just like we have. Just don't sell yourself short. Stop beating yourself up so much. Stop belittling yourself. Life goes on and that's the way it is. You've gotta keep your chin up. Friends will come, but you've gotta open up a little more. A mate will come, but you have to open yourself up to the possibility, instead of insisting to yourself that you're not good enough and that everyone hates you. Be friendly. Be happy. Life is good, but only if you make it good. If you close yourself off, refuse any good will or friendly overtures, life will be hell. More so than you even know now. Just be yourself. Sorry I ranted so long, but I am not sorry for my advice to you. Find your inner peace and the world will open itself to you. And one more thing: don't be a dick. People don't like assholes. And can you really blame them. Peace fellow Furry.


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## LupusFamilia (Nov 7, 2016)

wow and thats the 3rd convertsation i come over since registering?
maybe i should better be quiet but i would dare founder and most here one thing: i sure draw more crappily then almost everyone here lo. but im fine with that haha. Some wise ppl a year ago said me "its all about patience and endurance" and it still makes sense for me. No matter what, but maybe especially in drawing its just a thing of time.. #. as i started i dont even drew a stickmen correctly, now i still cant draw good but at least i now can do a table as example. and if u, like me, just have patience and keep practising, i would say u one time could sure be eeveen the best here.
Ok maybe not think too great  but i keep standing to my opinion: keep on the track and there once come a finish line  
hope i held the course lol. i forgot where i started ._.


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## um_pineapplez (Nov 7, 2016)

LupusFamilia said:


> wow and thats the 3rd convertsation i come over since registering?
> maybe i should better be quiet but i would dare founder and most here one thing: i sure draw more crappily then almost everyone here lo. but im fine with that haha. Some wise ppl a year ago said me "its all about patience and endurance" and it still makes sense for me. No matter what, but maybe especially in drawing its just a thing of time.. #. as i started i dont even drew a stickmen correctly, now i still cant draw good but at least i now can do a table as example. and if u, like me, just have patience and keep practising, i would say u one time could sure be eeveen the best here.
> Ok maybe not think too great  but i keep standing to my opinion: keep on the track and there once come a finish line
> hope i held the course lol. i forgot where i started ._.


Something about patience and endurance? I was working on math homework when I got the alert, so I kinda half-read the post. X3


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## LupusFamilia (Nov 7, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> Something about patience and endurance? I was working on math homework when I got the alert, so I kinda half-read the post. X3


then it seems to be day at your location lol. But yes this should match  its all bout patience and endurance (at least if my english is 
correct xD)^^


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## Yarik (Nov 8, 2016)

Art is just another handcraft. 
It functions over two parts: Your visual library (what you can remember, what you can analyze and learn form reference - that is a skill in itself!) and muscle memory.
You complain over being unable to move the pencil correctly - that's the muscle memory part! It's like learning to throw a ball right, or play billiard. When we first do it we are really bad - constant practice helps to improve. 
You can read a book over football and know all the theories: You still won't hit the ball right and kick it into the goal like a pro.
This is because theory and knowledge don't teach your muscles anything. You just know you gotta do it but not really *how* you do it. You'll never know *how* you draw either - your muscles will just do it at some point.

Personally I love these lessons. They are focused on improving your muscle memory: drawabox.com: Lesson 1: Lines, Ellipses and Boxes
Repeating those over and over again really helped me to feel more confident in drawing overall. I can promise you that starting off is frustrating. (Ellipses were painful for me - and I already drew a good hundred pictures before!)
Always remember that the general rule to master a craft is "1000 hours of practice." 1 hour of desperate line practice won't really get you anywhere - you won't even notice your improvements.
Art is a frustrating hobby. It's not about "I want to be able to do this" it's more about the willpower to keep working for it for a LONG TIME. (Years!) Some might have a natural talent and improve faster but that happens in every craft you look at.  In the end it is all about practice - just as everyone said.

I suck at music, man I'd love to learn to play the piano! But I don't really have the patience and power to put so much effort into learning it. Therefor I just stick with my current hobby. Which is drawing. I probably have a good 200hours+ into this hobby and I think it shows. In both a good and bad way - because I still have to improve SO MUCH. 


In short: There is no step-by-step guide how to be awesome.
That's like looking for a step-by-step tutorial to play the piano. You might do it for a single song, wonky, flawed and even if you ever can copy that one tutorial - you can play ONE song and nothing else. Same about art. Learn to reproduce the only thing you care about and use tutorials all the time, or learn to draw. painfully. Hey, just wanting to be able to draw furry characters is okay! I'd suggest you improve your muscle memory with those lessons (repeat them daily, take it SLOWLY. Don't rush this. Never think you're done with a lesson - you aren't. You're never done training your muscles when you want to get and STAY shredded - same for your pencil movements!)
And once you feel more confident in using this tool you then can continue to use tutorials. Then you might realize there are flaws in your understanding of space - which improves over time, but at least you won't fight your own hand anymore. That part can be worked on rather well!


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## tucakeane (Nov 8, 2016)

Yarik said:


> Art is just another handcraft.
> It functions over two parts: Your visual library (what you can remember, what you can analyze and learn form reference - that is a skill in itself!) and muscle memory.
> You complain over being unable to move the pencil correctly - that's the muscle memory part! It's like learning to throw a ball right, or play billiard. When we first do it we are really bad - constant practice helps to improve.
> You can read a book over football and know all the theories: You still won't hit the ball right and kick it into the goal like a pro.
> ...



Probably the best worded advice so far. Pretty inspirational, really.


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## Very Hairy Larry (Nov 8, 2016)

um_pineapplez said:


> By having friends? Good luck with that. Everyone fucking hates me!


Maybe no one wants to be friends with someone that dramatizes over some stupid shit.
That's prob why everyone hates you.


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