# Digitigrade or plantigrade for dancing in suit?



## She-King (May 8, 2012)

I don't know if this goes in this section, but it does have to do with suits and artistry. I couldn't find a section reserved for Music, dancing or something like that. however, this does have to do with the premiere of a suit I'll do once I get really good at fursuit building. I'm saving her for when I get better at it.

I want to  incorporate dance into my character's personality. She's loud with color, ethnic with her colors, and she's the leader of a tribe of feral sentient beings called Ferals. She's a lombax and she's my FA Forum's avatar. I've not seen anyone in competitions do tribal-based dances. It's all the modern Dub stepping and robotic-looking stuff and I think I might try to get a new fan base and win the judge's favor with something different and non-typical. Something people don't expect. I think tribal dancing is a good idea for someone encased in fur who has to exaggerate their bodily movements anyways because that's how the art goes when you fursuit and have a character. Down to the mere turn of the head or a "yes" or "no" head gesture. It has to be somewhat exaggerated to be effective. 

Dancing more enthusiastically with wide sweeping gestures of the hands, heavy core body gyrations and leaping and bounding might make for an interesting character. So far, I haven't seen anybody do something like this. I've never danced, seriously a day in my life, so I'm going to try this and mix it with what everyone else has been doing so I please a wide range of audiences. Mixing and matching might add for a unique dance routine.


That leaves me with the real question. My character originally had Digitigrade legs designed, which calls for a low crotch like MonsterRoo. Mangusu stated that his MOnster Roo was hard to dance in because of the low crotch. SHould I bring it up higher, like this







Or do plantigrade? Drakonic Knight is one of the few fursuit builders I see with the most natural-looking leg and foot proportions. I've figured out the technique and I want to put it to use so bad in my own fursuit legs one day soon. Because of what she does, it looks more natural than even some of the pro's I've seen that make legs. Nobody seems to make legs look very natural. This is the most natural lower body I've seen. I might just go with the digitigrade for the feral/uncivilized presentation for She-King because I want to get that across in my dance behavior. I know plantigrade would, naturally, be easier to dance in, but if I keep the crotch fairly high up, like this, it might be easier to make my moves look the way they should.. I mean, King is not a chipmunk, thus, she wouldn't need a crotch depth like one.


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## Ad Hoc (May 8, 2012)

. . . Define "ethnic colors" and "tribal dancing." :| Tribal cultures aren't a monolith. Even when you narrow it to something like "African Tribal Culture" or "American Indian Tribal Culture," you'll still see huge variation. Also, it seems like you're equating "tribal" with "feral." That's pretty disrespectful. Even if you're not planning to do any subjugation, it's that kind of language that's been used to dehumanize, oppress, and murder tribal peoples for centuries. It's one thing to base a character's lifestyle off of a particular tribe because it makes sense,* it's another thing to go, "Well, she's 'feral'; therefore, she's an amalgam of stereotypes about tribal peoples."

And what kind of dancing are you talking about? Capoiera? Some kind of belly dancing? Attun? Here's a short list of African tribal dances; as you can see, there's a good lot of variation. 


As far as the suit goes, I'd suggest directly talking to suiters who've used the kinds of leg styles that you're considering. Any kind of padding is going to make you heat up faster, though. 


*For example, I have a fantasy race of sentient animal-spirits that tended to appropriate aspects of the human cultures around them, which often meant tribal cultures. But that was because those were the people that they encountered, and also it just kind of tended to make survival sense. It was always something to be approached with a good deal of caution though.


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## She-King (May 8, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> . . . Define "ethnic colors" and "tribal dancing." :| Tribal cultures aren't a monolith. Even when you narrow it to something like "African Tribal Culture" or "American Indian Tribal Culture," you'll still see huge variation. Also, it seems like you're equating "tribal" with "feral." That's pretty disrespectful. Even if you're not planning to do any subjugation, it's that kind of language that's been used to dehumanize, oppress, and murder tribal peoples for centuries. It's one thing to base a character's lifestyle off of a particular tribe because it makes sense,* it's another thing to go, "Well, she's 'feral'; therefore, she's an amalgam of stereotypes about tribal peoples."
> 
> And what kind of dancing are you talking about? Capoiera? Some kind of belly dancing? Attun? Here's a short list of African tribal dances; as you can see, there's a good lot of variation.
> 
> ...




Oh...I didn't realize it was offensive. Does it...really read like that? I read it about four times in a row and didn't find any trigger that would offend anyone. I'm not good with words so I apologize if I might have offended anyone or was disrespectful all though ,I don't understand how you can be disrespectful when it's not your intent and you do respect and appreciate what you are talking about.. .__. Perhaps...this is a misunderstanding or something?...

I was not equating the specific word "Tribe" With "Feral", but more of what you said:The Amalgam. I didn't know nor did I understand the concept of that presentation of such at thing until now, so, THAT is what I was speaking of, to an extent, in the..limited amount of info I gave, I guess? .__. . I didn't know that word nor the concept. You seem to have figured it out yourself, though. I'm still kind of puzzled as to how this could have been taken out of context. Perhaps, too literally, but I'll explain myself anyways because I understand the offended feeling.

In my story that my Avatar is in her alien humanoid peoples, the lombaxes have been changed into a "feral" form on all fours. Like that of an animal. So the word "Feral," is more for the animal "Form." When I do mention it. The other aliens refer to them as "Ferals." after that fact.


I did say "Tribal-based" so I did intend to generalize the IDEA of tribal dance ITSELF into a THOUGHT itself. I meant no monolith of the thing. It was intended. I'm sorry you took offense to it. It's not what I was insinuating. I just meant something besides the american, mordern day dancing. I figured it could be achieved without a second thought.



My character's colors I find kind of ethnic in their composition and appearance which is why I say "Ethnic". They could be reminiscent of a color composition you would associate with a tribe of any culture with the way I want to perform with her. Not so much for the people themselves, but the dressage like paints, dresses, clothing, and head dresses they wore when they did dance for celebration, times of mourning, marriage, celebration, prayer, etc.

Thanks for the links, I'll look those up and study the dance choreopgraphy. I appreciate your time and help!


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## Batty Krueger (May 8, 2012)

I would say plantigrade. The padding for digigrade gets HOT.


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## EnvyAlakye (May 18, 2012)

Personally I do NOT find your post offensive at all. Your character is Feral, she comes from a tribe, and she looks like she is a native to Africa. Honestly hun, don't worry what he said, I did not find one bit of your post offensive at all. In fact I find it creative and unique. You were using words as a description for lack of better terms, in fact I would have probably used the same terms as you did! 

Now as for Digigrade and Plantigrade... Planti would def be easier to dance in, however I have seen quite a few furs dance easily in Digigrade suits. But you have to understand that its a little like dancing in heels I would imagine. (I have not actually created a digigrade suit because I am only just starting on my own adventures... I do have to say that those pictures show pretty good craftsmanship) You may not get the signature leg movements, especially kicking out, pointing your toes, etc.... However if you can make it work I am sure you will stun the judges and audiences alike. I would practice in your suit, try to safety pin or synch your suit up in the crotch, see if its easier or harder to move. The worst case scenario that I can see coming of it, is an unwelcome rip in the crotch. However at the same time, I can not give you an ultimate decision because I do not have the skills necessary. The main reason I decided to post was because I wanted to tell you that No, you were not being offensive. In fact, by learning the dances you are bringing acknowledgement and admiration to the tribe its self. Explaining your character as Feral doesn't even pertain to the dances themselves. Heck, if we all concerned ourselves on that kind of judgement there would be no furries at all! Does a person who has an ethnic or feral character offending another race? No, to me it is honoring them. Ultimately you are the artist, and the fursona is YOU. Don't let anyone's word take that from you. 

I.E. An ethnically colored feral lion (I know yours is a wombat) wandering around a convention is not offensive is it? Again if it was, then no one would be able to portray a lion but african americans or lions themselves! I really do not see how your post could be even remotely considered offensive!


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## Ad Hoc (May 18, 2012)

EnvyAlakye said:


> Personally I do NOT find your post offensive at all. Your character is Feral, she comes from a tribe, and she looks like she is a native to Africa. Honestly hun, don't worry what he said, I did not find one bit of your post offensive at all. In fact I find it creative and unique. You were using words as a description for lack of better terms, in fact I would have probably used the same terms as you did!
> 
> . . .
> 
> I.E. An ethnically colored feral lion (I know yours is a wombat) wandering around a convention is not offensive is it? Again if it was, then no one would be able to portray a lion but african americans or lions themselves! I really do not see how your post could be even remotely considered offensive!


I don't think you understood my post. It's not wrong to study a culture and reflect it respectfully in a character. I've done it myself with past characters; I encouraged She-King to do it by providing specific examples of individual tribes. The trouble is with stereotyping "tribal cultures" as a monolith (when in fact tribal cultures are extremely diverse even within a single region) and equating them with being "savage" or "feral." Going back and re-reading She-King's post a long way's afterward, I'll admit I may have read too much into it, but that's a thing that furry does _a lot_.


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