# Tails in Europe



## Somnium (Feb 23, 2016)

I'm looking for a tail to buy in Europe. My first one. Do you guys know any good websites which would sell furry stuff, preferably in the UK? The best I could find was a 20 incher on amazon.co.uk for 27 pounds. Kinda pricey and short + it's a real tail straight from China fur farms. I bet faux fur would be a way to go.


----------



## Zrcalo (Feb 23, 2016)

If I were you, I'd just commission someone to make one. Or you could stalk furbuy to find a european seller.

Definitely go with faux fur. Real tails fall apart over time and can actually smell when you get them. Not only that, but the cruelty in fur farms as well. It always bothered me to see people who loved animals wear them.


----------



## Somnium (Feb 23, 2016)

But a custom tail would cost so much and all I need is a generic one to play with. Shipping from the US is out of the question, because the price will go up several times. Personally I don't mind real fur and if it's well made and maintained, it should last for a long time.  So I probably will get a real thing if I can't find something better locally.


----------



## Zrcalo (Feb 26, 2016)

and no thoughts about the animal that owned the tail and what was done to it?


----------



## stablercake (Feb 27, 2016)

Zrcalo said:


> and no thoughts about the animal that owned the tail and what was done to it?


Apparently it's cost over all else.

Save up the extra few bucks to get a good tail shipped from the US. Seriously, it can't be more than 10-20$ more for intl shipping and you'll have a better, less harmful product.


----------



## Somnium (Feb 27, 2016)

Zrcalo said:


> and no thoughts about the animal that owned the tail and what was done to it?



Of course it is sad and they do suffer, can't argue with it. But don't worry, I already ordered a factory made, fake tail from China.


----------



## jorinda (Feb 29, 2016)

www.etsy.com: TigerStripedStore is in Leicester. I once bought a tail there, it is good quality.


----------



## Somnium (Feb 29, 2016)

jorinda said:


> www.etsy.com: TigerStripedStore is in Leicester. I once bought a tail there, it is good quality.



Oh thank you very much. I saw that site before but because all prices are listed in USD and the link ends with .com I was certain everything is from US, which is a big no no. Though I don't regret ordering the first tail from China, just because it cost meager 3 euros including shipping.


----------



## jorinda (Mar 1, 2016)

Somnium said:


> Though I don't regret ordering the first tail from China, just because it cost meager 3 euros including shipping.


I'm hesitant about those shops. When I pay 3€ for something that needs to be made and shipped, there is absolutely no way the person who made it gets a living wage out of it. Usually those things are made under poor conditions, which also results in poor quality.


----------



## Somnium (Mar 1, 2016)

The thing in China is that its manpower is very cheap and production volumes are very high, so they can sell their products for cheap and still make profit. I'm sure if we included the middleman I'd have to pay much more for the same thing. This also shows how much those mailing companies likes to rip off their customers, because Chinese manages to mail boxes worldwide almost for nothing.

Quality? erm I'll let you know when it arrives


----------



## stablercake (Mar 1, 2016)

Somnium said:


> The thing in China is that its manpower is very cheap and production volumes are very high, so they can sell their products for cheap and still make profit. I'm sure if we included the middleman I'd have to pay much more for the same thing. This also shows how much those mailing companies likes to rip off their customers, because Chinese manages to mail boxes worldwide almost for nothing.
> 
> Quality? erm I'll let you know when it arrives



You missed the point completely. Going to China for labor is great for business because people are legally exploited for low wages and bad conditions. Manpower is cheap because they won't pay them more, not because the people don't deserve or need more money, and because quality control isn't much of a thing at all (making "cheap" goods that fall apart, no re-do's ever because they ship the bad ones along with the good to fill quotas, no waste from do-overs, and not paying the QC dude they don't have, plus when you pay people less and run them on quota, the worker doesn't care about the product either). I don't think anyone wonders why Chinese products are cheap, they know why Chinese products are cheap and it's the main reason why manufacturing jobs aren't in the US or Europe much anymore other than luxury goods. They're not ripping off customers, but that doesn't mean no one's getting ripped off, it's just not you.

China manages to mail stuff worldwide for cheap mainly because quality control doesn't really exist and bc I imagine the people in the Chinese postal system are not paid well. Same kind of thing, they're not ripping off customers, they're ripping off employees (and probably some recipients).

It's not magic that the Chinese have found a way to mail and make stuff cheap, the average Chinese worker is the one that metaphorically foots the bill for your cheap product.

Edit: This isn't to say I'm judging you or anything, your posts just sorta seem under the impression that China has like figured it out or isn't exploiting the customer (and therefore other manufacturers are) for profit which is why the products are so cheap or something and that's not really the case. I have to buy Chinese products sometimes, I just can't afford not to, I just want to be sure you're not under the illusion that Chinese products are cheap for a virtuous reason.

God that's a fucking essay I'm so sorry, I worked a lot with Chinese furniture manufacturing in an old job.


----------



## Somnium (Mar 2, 2016)

It's alright, I'm actually very happy you're sharing your knowledge with me. Yea they do exploit Chinese workers, but isn't this what every good businessman do? If he can save in labor department why not to do so? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Idk maybe things are different in the west.

Also almost everything is manufactured in the far east nowadays and I don't see any real quality issues. Some stuff brakes of course, it's something I expect, because they simply can't individual check every little peace. The problem arises when Chinese design their product, it's usually so bare bones just omg, but then they give it away basically for free. Can't complain.


----------



## stablercake (Mar 2, 2016)

Somnium said:


> It's alright, I'm actually very happy you're sharing your knowledge with me. Yea they do exploit Chinese workers, but isn't this what every good businessman do? If he can save in labor department why not to do so? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Idk maybe things are different in the west.
> 
> Also almost everything is manufactured in the far east nowadays and I don't see any real quality issues. Some stuff brakes of course, it's something I expect, because they simply can't individual check every little peace. The problem arises when Chinese design their product, it's usually so bare bones just omg, but then they give it away basically for free. Can't complain.



Yes that is true that a lot of businessmen exploit workers when they are able to and exploit situations in countries that don't have good infrastructures for paying workers living wages (or paying them according to their work even if a living wage is low) and you're right it's most of the time TECHNICALLY good business to save money on labor by exploiting your workers and making their lives like super not that good? It's mainly an ethical issue. Which is like pretty important especially for the workers but also for PR. There are a lot of places that are good to their employees that get great PR on top of it and some customers go places because they treat their employees right,  just a thought. Unless you're a teeny bit of a sociopath, which a good deal of businessmen are, it's typically something that crosses the average person's mind, I know I couldn't do that job :c 

And moreover, just because that's the way things are done doesn't make it a good way to do it ethically. Also, as a person who not only saw but worked for a company that paid peanuts to the people doing the most work, it gets really hard to care about your work when you aren't appreciated monetarily so having unhappy workers isn't really "good business" since your best workers tend to quit or get careless, it just tends to be more likely to make a profit so even if the business structure/employees/day-to-day is a shitshow, it doesn't matter because you make profit.

Let me also say that as I was leaving the company, our long-time customers actually stopped buying from our company because of increasing level of shoddy products they got from China and Malaysia so yeah, things break kind of a lot when you get the cheap overseas version. "You get what you pay for" is very often a true statement with regard to quality.


----------



## Somnium (Mar 2, 2016)

Ethics... Big people don't really care about them, they are only concerned how to stay in this game and make more money. I'm sure they would enslave their workers if it was more profitable. If they allowed themselves to care, competition would eat their businesses instantly. It's all mathematics and zero emotions. Unfortunately China's labor price is increasing, so factories might be forced to move to other, less expensive countries, so they could continue exploiting. Kinda sad I know, but only the consumer's desire for the cheapest can be blamed.

In China a big chunk of factory workers come from rural areas, poorly educated, young people. They make much more in the city than they did in home, so these people are rather happy. Finally it is possible for them to afford education and maybe climb to the higher social class, thus becoming "successful". I don't know but maybe there's als0 a cultural difference, like Chinese are more hardworking than Americans. Plus, I wouldn't blame an average factory worker for poor quality products. It's more likely to be a very cheap design's fault, which for example asks to reuses old parts, allows higher margin of error, employs minimal testing and so on.

By the way, we should move to the PMs because this discussion is becoming very off-topic. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying it.


----------

