# 8GB Zune, or 8GB iPod Nano?



## Lukar (Jul 18, 2009)

Alright. Alot of the reviews of the 4th-generation iPod Nano are very positive- more positive than the 8GB Zune. Since I usually don't trust professional reviews though, I'd like you guys to give me your opinion on which MP3 player is better, seeing as how I'll probably buy one next month.


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## KaiFox (Jul 18, 2009)

I just bought an 8GB Nano last week.  It runs well, the "tilt-sensor" on it is really cool, and I'd take it over a Zune any day.  My friend owns a Zune, and while it is nice and everything, I'd still prefer the nano simply because I'm familiar with it.

It really just boils down to personal taste, though.  They're both still essentially the same thing: an 8GB mp3 player.


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## Lukar (Jul 18, 2009)

Hitman344 said:


> I just bought an 8GB Nano last week.  It runs well, the "tilt-sensor" on it is really cool, and I'd take it over a Zune any day.  My friend owns a Zune, and while it is nice and everything, I'd still prefer the nano simply because I'm familiar with it.
> 
> It really just boils down to personal taste, though.  They're both still essentially the same thing: an 8GB mp3 player.



Ah. Is the Genius feature or whatever pretty good at determining songs for playlists?


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## Runefox (Jul 18, 2009)

Well, I'm not up on the Zune, but I do know that they're better than people make them out to be. A couple of advantages of the Zune over the iPod are WiFi sync, and FM radio receiver. With either of them, you'll be tied to a vendor-specific sync app (as I understand it), so that'll still be a pain compared to just copying the files over. As far as the iPod goes, the 4th-gen iPod Nanos are really neat little devices with great screens and of course implement the tried and tested control wheel.

More than likely, audio quality between them is going to be equal (WMA9 vs AAC (the defaults) is _fairly_ even, and MP3 playback should be identical; Both players support all three of those formats), and they both have the same capacity. On paper, at least, the Zune supposedly has an extra four hours of battery life (28) versus the iPod Nano 4G (24) for audio-only playback, though take both of those numbers with a grain of Marketing Salt (TM).

So that said, on a technical standpoint the Zune _seems_ to come out on top, but technical specifications aren't the only thing to worry about - Have you used a Zune before, or have you ever used an iPod? Chances are, if you've used one or the other before, you'll have an easier time getting acquainted with them if you keep with the brand. In that same vein, if you've never used an MP3 player before, you might find the iPod easier to pick up. Another issue would be that as far as I am aware, there is no official Mac-compatible Zune software, so if you had a Mac, you'd need to either run Windows on it or find something capable of syncing to it (like XNJB).

So it basically comes down to how you feel about all that - That and the price point. The Zune is $10 cheaper from the official stores, which isn't really a big deal, though I've seen the Zune 8GB on Amazon.ca for $99 CAD, which is a great deal cheaper. I can't really say I'm biased either way, since I've never used either of these devices in any extended manner; I personally tend to cart around my CFW PSP Slim for music and spontaneous gaming.


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## pixthor (Jul 18, 2009)

Just to let you all know. If you use iTunes, Apple watches what you listen to. If you use iTunes, you are pretty much allowing Apple to watch what you listen to. I have heard that from numerous people. Anyway, if you get a zune, you would not have to worry about downloading any additional software. Since it uses WMP. I would deffinatley get a zune. They are better. Atleast in my opinion.


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## Sassy (Jul 18, 2009)

You'll most certainly be happier with the Apple iPod Nano. They lead the market for a reason~


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## Runefox (Jul 18, 2009)

Sassy said:


> They lead the market for a reason~


I'm not gonna dispute that the iPod is a decent piece of hardware, but isn't that a bit like saying Microsoft leads the desktop OS market for a reason?


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## Sassy (Jul 18, 2009)

Runefox said:


> I'm not gonna dispute that the iPod is a decent piece of hardware, but isn't that a bit like saying Microsoft leads the desktop OS market for a reason?


Yes; they do, it's true. Of course the reason for this is unethical business practices and bullying of other companies. That, and they had very little real competition until Mac OS X Tiger - and they've been losing market share to Mac ever since Tiger. The iPod line has had plenty of competition and yet still leads the market with a level of ubiquity that has permeated society to the point where most people don't even know what an "Mp3 Player" is; they just use the term 'iPod'.


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## KaiFox (Jul 18, 2009)

Lukar said:


> Ah. Is the Genius feature or whatever pretty good at determining songs for playlists?


 
It's pretty good.  I never use it because if I'm feeling a certain band I'll play that band.  But Genius does make some sexy playlists.


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## pixthor (Jul 18, 2009)

Sassy said:


> most people don't even know what an "Mp3 Player" is; they just use the term 'iPod'.


Those are what you call illiterates. I hate those people. lol


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## Gnome (Jul 18, 2009)

Zune, because its not apple.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2521590
an because it accepts more file types


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## Sassy (Jul 19, 2009)

pixthor said:


> Those are what you call illiterates. I hate those people. lol


"Those" people are what you call the "mainstream". They're pretty important, despite what your "hurrrr i hate what's poplar" train of thought may say.


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## Carenath (Jul 19, 2009)

Guys, can we keep this thread on-topic. The choice of 'mp3' player you choose has no bearing on the furry fandom, lets keep this thread about iPods and Zunes please. This time, I just deleted the off-topic posts, next time I'll close the thread.

On that note.. I started with an iPod and I've bought a bunch of tracks from iTunes, so for those protected tracks, so I am somewhat stuck with Apple's range of music players until DRM-Free versions of those tracks become available.

I've never used a Zune, but I would rather an Apple-made music player than seeing Microsoft getting bigger by invading other markets like a plague.


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## Lukar (Jul 19, 2009)

Gnome said:


> Zune, because its not apple.
> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2521590
> an because it accepts more file types



The only files I use are MP3 and AAC.



Hitman344 said:


> It's pretty good. I never use it because if I'm feeling a certain band I'll play that band. But Genius does make some sexy playlists.



Ah, that's good to hear. x3 That's a positive feature for me, lol.


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## Sassy (Jul 19, 2009)

Lukar said:


> The only files I use are MP3 and AAC.


The only files that matter are MP3 and AAC ^_~


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## Kivaari (Jul 19, 2009)

Sandisk Sansa Fuze:
FM Radio Reciever
MicroSD card slot (If 8GB ends up not being enough, you can add more)
Cheaper ($77 on Amazon)
Not Apple or Microsoft
Comes with a nice pair of earbuds


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## Lukar (Jul 19, 2009)

Sassy said:


> The only files that matter are MP3 and AAC ^_~



Exactly. xD


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## Grimfang (Jul 19, 2009)

I have near-worthless input on this matter, but two things:

1. I can't stand the wheels.
2. Imagine putting that oblongish-shaped Nano on a table or something. I need my electronics to be able to sit flat on surfaces. Curves are not hip or techy.


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## AlexInsane (Jul 19, 2009)

I find the Zune to be quite ugly for an MP3 player. I prefer the sleek look of an iPod.

Honestly though? It doesn't matter. A MP3 player is an MP3 player. Unless you want a bunch of extra crap like Solitaire or weird apps on it, just grab a generic MP3 player with 8 gigs of memory and it'll be just fine.


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## CodArk2 (Jul 19, 2009)

The zune isn't bad, though I haven't seen many and don't own one. I do own a ipod touch, and have seen many ipod nanos and shuffles. I personally like the ipod better.Ipod and Zune are the same size and price. There are pros and cons to each.

Ipod
Pros
-sleeker, lighter and thinner than the zune
-uses itunes, and all that implies
-good user interface(good if you are disabled as well)
-same price and ability as zune
-ubiquity, many people own an ipod. if something goes wrong or you need help with something you are far more likely to find someone that can help you than with a zune
-can use on mac or pc
-usable out of the box

cons
-requires itunes to load music on it
-earphones tend to fall out a lot so you may need new ones
-not compatible with wma files. they have to be converted to AAC or mp3
-no FM radio

I find they are fairly reliable if they aren't harshly treated, and are a good value. You would need itunes 8 or higher to load music on it, but otherwise its fairly simple. The click wheel and interface are easy to understand. You can find them in any color really, and they are very light and thin. Since many own them if you can't figure something out someone else can help you.

CNET review: http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/apple-ipod-nano-fourth/4852-6490_7-33246727.html?tag=mncol;rnav

Zune
-has FM radio
-not too bad interface
-"social" features
-wireless sync
-compatable with wma files
-somewhat customizable

cons
-zune pass. 
-not compatable with anything but windows
-less use it so less know how to use one
-no EQ settings
-software isnt as good as ipod
-wont work until you get pc software

CNET review: http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/apple-ipod-nano-fourth/4852-6490_7-33246727.html?tag=mncol;rnav

I havent used a zune as much as an ipod, but the time i have spent with one wasnt horrible. They are larger and heavier than an ipod, though not by much. The only things it has that the ipod doesnt is an FM radio and the ability to play wma's. From what i hear the system is diffeent, you have to pay on a per month basis to get music, and you can only get so many songs. if you get more than a certain amount then a certain number arent usable at the end of the month.You also have to set up the software to use it on a pc before it works. the ipod you can use out of the box.

I should also point out that itunes is now DRM free, whereas Zunes music service is not. http://gizmodo.com/5124588/itunes-gets-drm-free-new-prices-purchase-over-3g  or look up "itunes drm free" on google. This means you can move your music around as much as you want with no restrictions.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/03/winter-2007-buyers-guide-microsoft-zune-8-vs-ipod-nano/

Id take the ipod any day though


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## ToeClaws (Jul 19, 2009)

* Other

Limiting your choices to those two companies is like going out to buy a new car and asking "So, what should I get - Chrysler or GM?"  There's a world of better products out there and you would be better of going with neither of your two poll choices. :/


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## Azbulldog (Jul 19, 2009)

AlexInsane said:


> I find the Zune to be quite ugly for an MP3 player. I prefer the sleek look of an iPod.


I thought the very first Zune looked great, but the newer ones not so much. Not counting the Zune HD. I'd prefer a Zune personally but I ended up with an iPod because I got it on the cheap, used. It is mostly just preference. Depending on your computer and which software you want to use. There are other software options aside from iTunes for example if you get your music elsewhere.


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## CAThulu (Jul 19, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> * Other
> 
> Limiting your choices to those two companies is like going out to buy a new car and asking "So, what should I get - Chrysler or GM?"  There's a world of better products out there and you would be better of going with neither of your two poll choices. :/



I have to go with 'Other' as well.  I just want a simple MP3 player that'll play music, and that's it.  No other bells and whistles required.  I have a really nice one by RCA that I got for $50.  

I'm also the same kind of person that hates cellphones and blackberries, so I don't know if my vote counts in this *G*


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## KaiFox (Jul 19, 2009)

CAThulu said:


> I have to go with 'Other' as well. I just want a simple MP3 player that'll play music, and that's it. No other bells and whistles required. I have a really nice one by RCA that I got for $50.
> 
> I'm also the same kind of person that hates cellphones and blackberries, so I don't know if my vote counts in this *G*


 
I hate cellphones too (just call me, don't text), but I just love my iPod.


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## Doctor Timewolf (Jul 19, 2009)

Go for the iPod. Looks better, more color options, good amount of space, just a really faboo bit of technology.


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## CAThulu (Jul 19, 2009)

Hitman344 said:


> I hate cellphones too (just call me, don't text), but I just love my iPod.



I had an iPod once, but what irritated me about the Shuffle that I had was the only way I could charge the battery was by plugging it into my computer.  It was pretty inconvenient...other then that, I loved it while it worked *L*.

Ugh...don't get me started on texting


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## Shino (Jul 19, 2009)

I have a huge beef with Apple products, so by process of elimination, I reccommend the Zune.

The Zune actually isn't a bad player (in fact it has some features that blow the iPod out of the water), but I just never had a reason to get one. Between my PSP and my Windows Mobile phone, I have no need for a standalone media player.


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## RailRide (Jul 20, 2009)

Those of you who may be contemplating the "generic" option (meaning no-name Chinese "MP4" devices), I offer one caveat:

If you like putting your player on shuffle, these devices will annoy you to no end. From cheesy ipod copies to tiny models that'll fit in that fifth pocket on your jeans to full touchscreen versions, all that I have tried have a real problem with generating random numbers when picking tracks. By that I mean they will tend to play the _same sequence_ of songs each time you start them up. 

In fact, if you watch the index numbers, they will often run _in sequential order_ for as many as 20-30 tracks (sometimes a lot more) before making an half-hearted attempt at actually picking tracks at random. And even then, they'll soon forget they were set to shuffle, and revert back to sequential playback. You'll know the "shuffle mode" is broken when you notice you've been unconsciously predicting what song the player is going to play next with an unusual degree of accuracy after a few days of using the unit. 

Oh, and when you add new music files to these devices, they get assigned index numbers at the end of the list, which means even though they'll all be shown alphabetically when you view them in Explorer, in reality it could be a few _days_ before you hear any of the new tracks because the player stuck them at the end of its internal index. Every one of these players I've had, required me to move all the files off the device to a folder on the computer, add the new songs there, then copy the entire mess back to the player in order to rebuild its internal index. None of the name-brand players I've used (i.e. Samsung, Archos, Sansa) exhibit this deficiency. Coincidentally, the name-brand players also have clock/calendar functionality, which may explain why they seem to be able to accomplish  actual randomized playback.

---PCJ


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## Arcadium (Jul 20, 2009)

The Zune Flash models rule. For how much it does, I love mine. Audio Quality is great, and marketplace video works well. If you got a friend that packs one, Social music has got to be the coolest thing, ever. Swapping podcasts, Tunes, Pictures, etc between people is so much fun.

I do admit that I don't own an iPod Nano, but I've used it. Shake to Shuffle is cool, but enough to combat the Wi-Fi, Radio, Marketplace browsing abilities of the Zune.

Plus, Zune's look cool. Really freaken cool.


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## Hollyheist (Jul 21, 2009)

I HAD a 80gb zune but it broke... never buy electronics from wal-mart... couldn't return it because they never bothered to set it up on its warranty that i paid for... anyways only reason my zune broke is because i pretty much tortured the thing. dropped it like a million times a day. I had a friend who bought the new nano (i know they aren't the same but still) and he's clumsy like me but his broke with in a week (lucky son of a ***** had working warranty though) Still, zunes are funner i think and just plain better. Controls feel a lot smoother than that of an ipod (for me anyways). I think if you buy a zune directly from the website you can get a custom engraved back piece with a custom graphic for no extra charge (not sure if they still do that but i know they did at one time)


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 21, 2009)

i really would reccomend a creative zen x-fi. super super audio quality and even the bundled headphones are pretty awesome. looks better than both of these options too.

but out of the 2, i would pick the zune. ive had all 3 of them, sold my ipod after a week because i hated the curved screen. impossible to use in direct sunlight. i got the 8gb zune, but only got rid of it because i needed something bigger.


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## Adrianfolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Zunes are pretty good thanks to how big the screen is


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## CodArk2 (Jul 21, 2009)

I would wait til later this year. They are coming out with a new ipod and a new zune in the fall.


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## Ikrit (Jul 21, 2009)

how about neather?


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 21, 2009)

another thing i would suggest is get a mobile phone with lots of memory. Ive just bought a Nokia N97, which has 32gb onboard memory, and i bought a 16gb card to up the total to 48gb. Plus it acts as my internet whilst away from home, my phone (obviously), my camera, etc etc etc.

Yes it costs Â£500, but put together all the gadgets a phone like this could accomodate and your looking at around Â£1000.


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## Runefox (Jul 21, 2009)

I normally find phones pretty bad for music, but then again, I grabbed mine back when the "music on a phone" thing was just catching on (iPhone's not so great either though; It seems very clunky). Though I didn't really need the functionality, I tried it a couple times; Very stiff, audio quality isn't so good and the power output isn't great either. But then, maybe that's just the LG 8100 (phone's built like a tank, run over by a car in the middle of winter in a slush-filled parking lot and only took damage to the interior screen).


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Runefox said:


> I normally find phones pretty bad for music, but then again, I grabbed mine back when the "music on a phone" thing was just catching on (iPhone's not so great either though; It seems very clunky). Though I didn't really need the functionality, I tried it a couple times; Very stiff, audio quality isn't so good and the power output isn't great either. But then, maybe that's just the LG 8100 (phone's built like a tank, run over by a car in the middle of winter in a slush-filled parking lot and only took damage to the interior screen).


when i bought my n97 i was really wary about the audio quality, because im really fussy about it (hence hating the nano). i was extremely surprised as it is near enough the quality of my zen x-fi. 

I dont know if you have them or not, but audio quality is greatly increased if you have a good set of headphones. Ive got a pair of sennheiser cx-(number i cant remember), and there the bees knees.


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## Runefox (Jul 21, 2009)

That's pretty amazing if it's true, actually. o_o



> I dont know if you have them or not, but audio quality is greatly increased if you have a good set of headphones. Ive got a pair of sennheiser cx-(number i cant remember), and there the bees knees.


Actually, a better set of headphones (Sony MDR-EX85LP) made things sound worse. You could tell the decoder wasn't the greatest, and there's a good bit of fuzz. My PSP, on the other hand, has quite good audio output quality. Nearly as good as my Auzentech X-Fi Prelude's output.


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Actually, a better set of headphones (Sony MDR-EX85LP) made things sound worse.



Yeah, i had a pair of sony's at one point and i really didnt like them. audio was pretty poor and fit was horrible for something that set me back Â£100

I stole some Shure headphones off my friend the other day, and my god were they brilliant. superb sound quality, and putting a decent bass song on was the epic moment XD. i was like, im totally getting me some of these, until i found out they cost over Â£200.

EDIT: I did give them back, btw X3


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## Runefox (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of earphones, personally. The Sony MDR-EX85LP's were great, had good, clear sound on a good source (like the PSP or my computer), but they weren't comfortable to wear, and they gave me headaches. I've recently moved up to full-on can headphones, Audio Technica ATH-M50's. Excellent sound quality, much better than I'd get out of earphones. Not quite as portable, but I prefer it very much, and they'll double as earmuffs in the winter =D


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 21, 2009)

i must agree with you there, the full cans are just awesome. but a good set will set you back a bit, and i need something i can stick in my pocket, which is why i opt for headphones. =)


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## Jiyiki (Jul 24, 2009)

Zunes are probably better.  Most people dislike them because apple controlls the mp3 player market and theres alot of apple fanboys.  Zunes are probably much better.  My ipod, i sold it and i got a zune.


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## arcticursa (Jul 25, 2009)

Lukar said:


> Alright. Alot of the reviews of the 4th-generation iPod Nano are very positive- more positive than the 8GB Zune. Since I usually don't trust professional reviews though, I'd like you guys to give me your opinion on which MP3 player is better, seeing as how I'll probably buy one next month.


Okay I have an 8 gb Sansa View, no warranty void when you use other programs, and the battery life is triple that of a zune, it has video, audio, radio, mic recording, radio recording, and it can remember songs you ehar ont he radio and you can find them in the sansa store if you want. I'm not saying its the best for you, but try looking at it. Oh, and ipods, when the battery dies you have to replace it, there is no way to have an ipod's battery fixed.


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## Runefox (Jul 25, 2009)

arcticursa said:


> there is no way to have an ipod's battery fixed.



Typically, that's true of every kind of battery.


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## arcticursa (Jul 25, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Typically, that's true of every kind of battery.


You know what i meant when i said that


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## Runefox (Jul 25, 2009)

arcticursa said:


> You know what i meant when i said that



You meant that warranty doesn't cover the battery. Right?


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## Hir (Jul 25, 2009)

Well, this is just me, but I got an iPod classic and I hated it. I've never tried a Zune though, but I'd probably trust Zune over an iPod.


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## MaxTheHusky (Jul 25, 2009)

I've never seen a Zune or used one, so I'm going to have to say iPod nano..Although iPod touches are pretty good...I'm getting one for my Birthday...Anyway, sorry, off topic...iPods in my opinion, but its up to you


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## Hir (Jul 25, 2009)

Decided to give more input.

I got rid of my iPod classic due to:
1. Bad sound quality
2. Crashing
3. Having to use iTunes

Now I replaced it with this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-YP-...H0B2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1248566161&sr=8-5

And I LOVE IT. The sound quality is amazing, it never crashes, the keypad is awesome when you get used to it, plenty of space, certainly beats the iPod and it is cheaper. You can use Windows Media Player (Simple drag and drop) to put songs on it too. It's easy, great, and I don't know where I'd be without it.

Seriously. If you can, get one of those.


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 25, 2009)

Where Darkness Lies said:


> Decided to give more input.
> 
> I got rid of my iPod classic due to:
> 1. Bad sound quality
> ...



i was considering that one (or one like it), when i bought my new mp3 player. i bought the zen for the simple reason that it has proven audio brilliance. i didnt want to buy an mp3 player from a company who have only recently started looking into the market


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## Hir (Jul 25, 2009)

rawrsome wolf said:


> i was considering that one (or one like it), when i bought my new mp3 player. i bought the zen for the simple reason that it has proven audio brilliance. i didnt want to buy an mp3 player from a company who have only recently started looking into the market


I bought a Zen X-Fi.

It broke on the 6th fucking day.

I'll never trust a Zen again.


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## rawrsome wolf (Jul 25, 2009)

Where Darkness Lies said:


> I bought a Zen X-Fi.
> 
> It broke on the 6th fucking day.
> 
> I'll never trust a Zen again.



ive had my zen x-fi for about 2 months now, and i havent had a problem with it yet *touch wood*.

even though yours broke, dont you think the sound quality was amazing?


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## Kivaari (Jul 26, 2009)

I've had 3 Creative Zen products, all had problems of some sort. If only they made them stronger and had better quality control, they were very nice to use, and had great prices.

I've had both a Sandisk Sansa View and a Sansa Fuze, both feel much sturdier, and the only problem that's happened is the headphone jack died on the View. (Though my sister has had that one for quite awhile, I don't really know how she treats it) Plus they have MicroSD card slots, and the best pair of earbuds I've heard.


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## Hir (Jul 26, 2009)

rawrsome wolf said:


> ive had my zen x-fi for about 2 months now, and i havent had a problem with it yet *touch wood*.
> 
> even though yours broke, dont you think the sound quality was amazing?


The Samsung MP3 player was just as good if not better. The crystaliser on the X-Fi was good but the 3D sound effect was bad.

I take sound quality seriously. X-Fi was good, but Samsung takes the cake.

And I've had a Sony, Creative, Another Samsung, and an iPod. I know where I'm coming from.


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## Arcadium (Jul 26, 2009)

Where Darkness Lies said:


> The Samsung MP3 player was just as good if not better. The crystaliser on the X-Fi was good but the 3D sound effect was bad.
> 
> I take sound quality seriously. X-Fi was good, but Samsung takes the cake.
> 
> And I've had a Sony, Creative, Another Samsung, and an iPod. I know where I'm coming from.



Samsung, eh? I've always regarded the newer Walkman's to be of the best sound. But I haven't gotten to use a Samsung a lot. I know PSP's MP3 player is exactly like the Walkman's, and have the same output. It's funny when you think about it. I actually listen to a lot of my Higher Quality tunes on that, or my Zune, then the High Capacity iPod that's supposed to play everything nice, when a gaming console outdoes it.

iPod. Easy to use. That's about it.

But Samsung, I like. P3 is damn cool. Doesn't beat the Walkman X-Series, and definitely won't out do the Zune HD, i wouldn't think. But It does a lot. And Quality has always been good in the Hardware and Sound.

Oh, another company I want to Pimp. MOTHER FUCKING SONY. OH GOD YES.

Being in Japan lets you do lots of things. One being Visit the Sony Showroom in Ginza. Never have I seen more elegant players, with that great of sound quality. All of them, too. Now that we're recommending some players out of the Zune or Nano, like Zen and Samsung, I'm recommending Sony after Zune. If you don't like either the iPod or the Zune, give a Walk-man a try. Totally worth it.


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## Runefox (Jul 26, 2009)

> even though yours broke, dont you think the sound quality was amazing?


This is just funny. XD It's almost like saying, "Hey, you know that player you bought that self-destructed? Well worth the money, am I right? Remember that sound quality?!"

Not that I'm putting Creative down - They certainly know how to engineer a decent audio platform priced towards consumers/prosumers, but their hardware external to the PC market (as in, anything other than sound cards) seems to have a lousy track record for reliability. Their headphones, for example, are prone to failure. I'm not quite sure why that is, exactly. One would think they'd have caught on by now if their products were easy to smash.


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## Arcadium (Jul 28, 2009)

Oh yea, forgot to mention. If Zune is tentative, act fast, because I guess there gonna get dropped for Zune HD. A STUPID move, but There doing it, i guess.


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