# Do we want a thread for people to publicize their work?



## M. LeRenard (Oct 15, 2009)

The purpose of the new rules is, quite, simply, to keep the forum free of detritus, including such things as separate threads asking the same question, threads whose sole purpose is to publicize a piece someone has written, etc. etc..
So far we have a thread for critiques, and we have Take's thread, where people can publicize their galleries (but not specific works).  So do we need something like this for specific works, a place where you can just post a link to your work, not for critique, but for recognition?
I know we all like to avoid stickies these days, considering how bad it got before.  But I'm wondering if folks think this would be necessary.  Because otherwise, I'd just feel obligated to close every thread about specific works to keep out the clutter.
OR: third option, should we allow those threads to exist, and not worry about a sticky?


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## nybx4life (Oct 15, 2009)

Hrm... I guess it should be good to have posts that allow writers to get their works shown.

Especially for those that just come into FA itself, and doesn't have much of a gallery to publicize anyway.
Not that I see this forum very cluttered anyway (I don't come often, so I can't say)


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## Volpino (Oct 15, 2009)

The recommended reading thread was pretty good. Maybe instead of a thread to publicize, just let people post a plug and have it fall off like it normally would. If it's good, it goes to the recommended reading. If not, no worries, the thread didn't last long.

Or, just let them post to the critique thread and if its good, add it to the recommended reading. I've got enough of a backlog on critiques right now, I'm not looking for more plugs.

Maybe I should just take requests for doing critiques as I have openings? hmmm and if it's good pass that information on?

I know. I'm not any help. Too many ideas in my brain.


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## Poetigress (Oct 15, 2009)

No thanks. I think Take's thread covers the "I'm a writer, come read my stuff" aspect of self-promotion just fine on its own. If people want to promote a single work, they can put a link to it in their signature and then participate in the other discussions.

I'd like to see more people participating in the recommended reading thread, personally. So far it's pretty much been Duroc and a couple others occasionally. If something's truly worth reading, someone who isn't the writer should be able to say so.

[Edited to add: That said, if it comes down to a choice between having a single thread or letting people continue to post individual threads as they were doing, I'd much rather have a single 'shameless self-promotion' thread. Sticky status doesn't really matter. It might end up always staying fairly close to the top even without a sticky, if people post every time they put something new on FA.]


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## Murphy Z (Oct 15, 2009)

Maybe just make a single "critique my work / look at what I did" thread? I don't remember too many "just look at..." threads, but I don't pay too close attention to the "here's my work..." ones. The poster would say something like "no criticisms, just look," or generally, whatever level criticism they want.


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 15, 2009)

Poetigress said:


> [Edited to add: That said, if it comes down to a choice between having a single thread or letting people continue to post individual threads as they were doing, I'd much rather have a single 'shameless self-promotion' thread. Sticky status doesn't really matter. It might end up always staying fairly close to the top even without a sticky, if people post every time they put something new on FA.]


Well, do you see it as a problem?  It's not been so bad lately, but I remember times when 20% or so of the threads on the first page were shameless self-promotion or something similar.  I know one of the things we wanted to cut down on were these particular kinds of threads, where someone posts a whole work just to be seen... but I figure it could apply to making a whole new thread just to link to a work, just so it could be seen.  I don't see why we couldn't just have a thread for that as well.
The poll about the critique thread/subforum will go away eventually, leaving us with five stickies.  This would put it at six, and we'd again cut down on the spamming of very similar threads with relatively no point.
Or we could combine the critique and this kind of thread, like what Murphy suggested.


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## Poetigress (Oct 15, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> Or we could combine the critique and this kind of thread, like what Murphy suggested.



I would really strongly advise against that. There are likely far more people who just want reads and comments more so than real critique, and I'd hate to see a dedicated critique thread get swamped with self-promotion. And no matter what the ratio of crit requests to promos would be, I think there's too much potential for confusion there about who wants what sort of response.

As far as whether the individual promo threads are a problem (which I think is what you're asking?), I don't know about problem per se, but I personally found them kind of annoying--to me, that kind of post falls somewhere between spam and actually participating in the forum with something constructive.


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## duroc (Oct 15, 2009)

I personally don't like the idea of a "shameless promotion" thread.  If you look at FA as a whole, there are tons of opportunities and places for people to show off there work.  You can post to the main page, you can participate in the Thursday Prompt, you can become a member of the group The Writers Block, you can post in the Critique Thread(which some people have used it as a promotional tool instead of a means to get helpful critique), and you can post single threads in the forum.

Now, I'm pretty opinionated on this subject, and I'm gonna get a little side tracked, but I feel like there are far too many writers on FA who say, "Look at what I did," instead for saying, "Hey, look at what this person did."  Right now, the Recommended Reading thread is the only thing that covers promoting others instead of promoting yourself(which is probably why it isn't used much, and I won't get into that).  And even though PT started that thread and I don't really have much say so about what happens to it, but I *don't want it changed*.  I don't want it to become another self-promotional tool.      

So, back to the topic, I don't mind the "Look at what I wrote" single threads in the forum, because I pretty much ignore them.  

I probably said a lot without saying anything, but... well, there you have it.  If you make a collective thread, it should be called "The Shameless Self-Promotion Thread".


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## Volpino (Oct 15, 2009)

duroc said:
			
		

> Now, I'm pretty opinionated on this subject, and I'm gonna get a little side tracked, but I feel like there are far too many writers on FA who say, "Look at what I did," instead for saying, "Hey, look at what this person did."



I'd rather see a way to promote others than a way to promote self. They do threads on the open commissions on the art forums, why not, instead of having the writers post what can be read, have the writers post what they can read?

I have three novels and a couple of short stories on my plate right now that I'm reading for others. I like to think that I'm an above average writer getting closer to publication, and I credit a lot of that to reading a lot of other, growing writer's work.

I've given up on promoting my own stuff here. It doesn't work, but I get takers pretty quick for reviews. =)


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 15, 2009)

So what would you guys want me (and SSJ3, if he feels like taking on these new rules as well) to do?  Should I let self-promotion threads just run their course, or lock them as them come up and point the user to Take's thread, or what?
I'm just wondering if I should put them in the same category as the threads where people write their whole stories into the threads themselves, rather than linking to the story on FA or some other account.  I thought of this because, take note down there is a thread I locked recently which just links to a work without specifying why.  Within the original way I wrote the rule, that one would be okay because there is no part of the story written into the post.  But I kind of don't want it there anyway.
Maybe.. okay, here's a thought.  Take's thread is kind of a kill-all for this self-promotion issue, in that people can promote themselves, but they don't have to do it one work at a time.  In which case, such promotional threads for single works are unnecessary on at least two levels.
So that would be an argument for just locking them and calling it a day.  Is anyone vehemently against that?


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## Poetigress (Oct 16, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> So that would be an argument for just locking them and calling it a day.



This will sound harsh, but I'd rather see them deleted than locked, because then the author isn't getting the benefit of the promotion even if people can't reply (after all, spam gets deleted). But like Duroc, I basically ignore them anyway, so locking them would be fine.


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## panzergulo (Oct 16, 2009)

Duroc and Poetigress have already said pretty much what I have to say about this whole matter...

This is a forum, not a show room. Try at least discouraging people from posting whole stories or chapters. I think one critique thread/sub-forum and maybe the optional 'Recommended Writers' thread are just enough. 'Recommended Reading' is a beautiful idea, but most people are more interested promoting themselves than others, as we have seen. Frankly, I don't think 'Recommended Anything' threads even work that well... Most the flavor texts in Take's thread are for people who already have an established reader base... I cannot really say I had a reader who would have found me through FAF. And I'm not sure if anybody really reads Duroc's posts... plus, he really recommends people who are really good and have readers already... Or, at least, this is the picture I have created. I would be most happy if I was proved wrong on any of these points. But people are people.

If I were to set the rules... There wouldn't be full works allowed, only links to works on some real gallery site (FA and DA seem to be the most popular right now amongst FAF forumite writers), and even then they would be allowed to be posted only into one 'Monthly/Bi-Monthly Critique Thread'. There would be one 'Recommended Writers' thread, where a writer could recommend themselves or other writers and 'Recommended Reading' thread, where people could recommend works written by others. No single threads promoting any kind of art or asking for crits would be allowed. I would think this would cut excessive self-promotion, but still give enough room to ask for help and show there are good writers around here.

But that's just my opinion.

It's looking good, I hope you can establish some set of rules we all can live with. Keep it up, MLR and that other guy.


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## Atrak (Oct 16, 2009)

I agree with what panzer said, with one exception.



> 'Recommended Writers' thread, where a writer could recommend themselves


 
Writers should not be allowed to recommend themselves, because then the thread would just become another promotion for writers, like a repetition of the Critique thread.


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## TakeWalker (Oct 16, 2009)

I, of course, love self-promotion. 

But between my thread and the fact that it would suck Recommended Reading, i think we have promotion covered. And you _can_ promote yourself in my thread, fyi, all you have to do is provide a link to your own gallery, because I will not take the time to get one for you.  The purpose of that thread is to have a comprehensive list of all the writers on FA.


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## M. LeRenard (Oct 16, 2009)

All right, then.  I'll just go ahead and adjust the forum rules to accommodate any and all self-promotion threads, and in closing such threads I'll redirect the OP to instead use Take's thread.
I'll leave this discussion topic open in case anyone has anything else to say.


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