# Programs you thought were dead.



## Dr. Durr (Aug 4, 2010)

1. Real Player
2. America Online (AOL)
3. Netscape
4. iMesh


----------



## Runefox (Aug 4, 2010)

Well Netscape isn't dead, nor is RealNetworks. AOL _exists_. iMesh? I can't imagine why it still exists.

Obligatory: Windows


----------



## Xenke (Aug 4, 2010)

Opera


----------



## Dr. Durr (Aug 4, 2010)

Xenke said:


> Opera


 
I am actually typing on an Opera Browser.


----------



## Fenrari (Aug 4, 2010)

.rm files suck quality-wise but they're some of the only coding available for a certain generation of movies/tv shows so I've learned to deal with it.

As for programs... 

I'm really really surprised IE still exists... In this age of Firefox, Chrome, Opera and Safari... HOW?


----------



## Runefox (Aug 4, 2010)

Fenrari said:


> .rm files suck quality-wise but they're some of the only coding available for a certain generation of movies/tv shows so I've learned to deal with it.


 
They were actually really good back before MP3 became popular. The quality level for streaming media (their major focus) was amazing. Of course, later on .ra files just became container files for AACPlus v2, which is in my opinion the best available lossy audio format for filesize:quality. Doesn't make .ra any good nowadays though since you can just use AAC files.

As for IE... A lot of people still don't know there's any other way to access the internets.


----------



## Fissioninferno (Aug 4, 2010)

Notepad.  Ugh.

I second Netscape and RealPlayer.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 4, 2010)

Fissioninferno said:


> Notepad.  Ugh.


 
No-frills text editors that launch in two jiffies aren't going away anytime soon.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 4, 2010)

Emacs.



Runefox said:


> No-frills text editors that launch in two jiffies aren't going away anytime soon.


 
He didn't say no-frills text editors that launch in two jiffies.  He said handicapped text editors with restrictions that were absurd generations ago, let alone today, that take half an age to start up.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 4, 2010)

ArielMT said:


> He didn't say no-frills text editors that launch in two jiffies.  He said handicapped text editors with restrictions that were absurd generations ago, let alone today, that take half an age to start up.


 
I dunno, I don't find Notepad has any specific restrictions - Just a distinct lack of features. And I generally find it loads faster than most other text editors available (it literally loads the instant I hit it) - On Linux, GEdit, for example, is incredibly heavy for a general text editor and won't take non-text files if you try to feed it.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 5, 2010)

Window Maker.  I'm glad it's _not_ dead.



Runefox said:


> I dunno, I don't find Notepad has any specific restrictions - Just a distinct lack of features. And I generally find it loads faster than most other text editors available (it literally loads the instant I hit it) - On Linux, GEdit, for example, is incredibly heavy for a general text editor and won't take non-text files if you try to feed it.


 
Aye, but that's Gnome for ya.  No, the main restriction I meant on Windows Notepad was the file size limit.

Holy crap, speaking of text editors we thought were dead, Windows 7 still has freaking *Edlin*!


----------



## Runefox (Aug 5, 2010)

ArielMT said:


> No, the main restriction I meant on Windows Notepad was the file size limit.


Ooh, it doesn't really have that limitation any more, but back in the Win9x days, it had the same file size restriction as MS-DOS Edit. ... No real idea why.


----------



## Xenke (Aug 5, 2010)

chaomasterr said:


> I am actually typing on an Opera Browser.


 
WHY!?? D:<


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 5, 2010)

Xenke said:


> WHY!?? D:<


 
Because it's complete, extensible (even if it doesn't have as many widgets as Firefox), reasonably fast, free, and being kept up to date.  Also, unlike a more prevalent free browser usually preinstalled, it's not an obvious target facilitating total system compromise without any user interaction.

Edit: I should take FreeDOS Edlin and port it to Ubuntu for the lulz.


----------



## net-cat (Aug 5, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Ooh, it doesn't really have that limitation any more, but back in the Win9x days, it had the same file size restriction as MS-DOS Edit. ... No real idea why.


 
No, it does. It's much bigger than it was back in the day, but I still get the obligatory "This file is too large to open in Notepad. Would you like to open it in WordPad instead?"

Of course, I always say "No" because I probably wanted to open it in Vim anyway.

Speaking of programs that I'm shocked are still around... Vim.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 5, 2010)

ArielMT said:


> Holy crap, speaking of text editors we thought were dead, Windows 7 still has freaking *Edlin*!


 
And not only does Windows 7 still have Edlin, but it doesn't support long file names, and it doesn't honor the keyboard and localization settings that the command prompt window it's launched from and contained within does.  It's US-English QWERTY, no matter what.

Microsoft Edlin is definitely a zombie program.


----------



## Dr. Durr (Aug 5, 2010)

I felt old using Real Player 1.0, it kept buggin me to upgrade to 5.0, another obselete one.

I hate that Win7 has NO Dos support, I loved Doom on Win 98. DOSbox is annoying when it comes to having to speed up the games.

Also I'll add all of OS/2 Warp to the list.


----------



## Eske (Aug 5, 2010)

Fissioninferno said:


> Notepad.  Ugh.


 
What?  I use Notepad all the time.  It's great for jotting down quick notes and/or copy/pasties, which is what it's for.

I've never heard of Notepad taking any longer than a split millisecond to open.  Maybe you're thinking of the abomination, Wordpad?

As for programs I'm shocked are still around, I keep running into old school games which I thought had died out long ago -- like Roller coaster Tycoon.  My boyfriend found a fansite for RCT2 a few weeks ago, alive and well.


----------



## Skittle (Aug 5, 2010)

WebTV

not really a program but yea


----------



## Runefox (Aug 5, 2010)

chaomasterr said:


> I hate that Win7 has NO Dos support, I loved Doom on Win 98. DOSbox is annoying when it comes to having to speed up the games.


 
This actually happened when Windows 2000 came out. From then on, Windows has been running on the NT kernel, not on top of DOS - So, DOS games won't work properly. Even if they did (rarely), you'd need special emulators to get sound running, and it's just a big mess. Better to just use one of the many modern Doom engines available.


----------



## SnowFox (Aug 5, 2010)

chaomasterr said:


> I hate that Win7 has NO Dos support, I loved Doom on Win 98. DOSbox is annoying when it comes to having to speed up the games.


 


Runefox said:


> This actually happened when Windows 2000 came out. From then on, Windows has been running on the NT kernel, not on top of DOS - So, DOS games won't work properly. Even if they did (rarely), you'd need special emulators to get sound running, and it's just a big mess. Better to just use one of the many modern Doom engines available.


 
I've found that 16 bit programs completely crash windows 7 when you close them from windows rather than giving you the warning message like XP used to.
Does this happen for anyone else or is it just me? I've googled it and found no mention of it anywhere.


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 5, 2010)

skittle said:


> WebTV
> 
> not really a program but yea


 
Ugh.  Yes.  I had a dial-up customer using an MSN-TV2 to connect to us.  I hated supporting that thing.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 5, 2010)

SnowFox said:


> I've found that 16 bit programs completely crash windows 7 when you close them from windows rather than giving you the warning message like XP used to.


 
Haven't heard of that, especially since 16-bit programs run in NTVDM, which is all that should die if there were a big problem. I personally can't run 16-bit apps on 7 because I'm running the 64-bit variant.


----------



## Carenath (Aug 5, 2010)

ICQ.
Minicom & Hyperterminal.


----------



## Nineteen-TwentySeven (Aug 5, 2010)

SnowFox said:


> I've found that 16 bit programs completely crash windows 7 when you close them from windows rather than giving you the warning message like XP used to.


 
I thought 16-bit programs were dead...


----------



## Dr. Durr (Aug 6, 2010)

Californian_Calico said:


> I thought 16-bit programs were dead...


 
Most of 'em, I still play Wolfenstein 3D alot.

EDIT: Jazz Jackrabbit FTW


----------



## net-cat (Aug 6, 2010)

Runefox said:


> This actually happened when Windows 2000 came out. From then on, Windows has been running on the NT kernel, not on top of DOS - So, DOS games won't work properly. Even if they did (rarely), you'd need special emulators to get sound running, and it's just a big mess. Better to just use one of the many modern Doom engines available.


Microsoft actually put a lot of effort into the DOS VM in Windows NT. Of course, it wasn't ever intended to be used for gaming. It was meant to make old, legacy DOS business apps work. Microsoft actually giving two shits about gamers is a relatively recent thing. (But like the Windows-on-Windows, I'm reasonably certain the DOS VM is no longer present in 64-bit versions.)



SnowFox said:


> I've found that 16 bit programs completely crash windows 7 when you close them from windows rather than giving you the warning message like XP used to.
> Does this happen for anyone else or is it just me? I've googled it and found no mention of it anywhere.


I've never had this happen. Don't get me wrong, the original Windows-on-Windows is a piece of shit, but that's largely because 16-bit Windows was a piece of shit. When killing 16-bit Windows programs, your best bet is to go for the NTVDM.EXE process associated with it.



Runefox said:


> Haven't heard of that, especially since 16-bit programs run in NTVDM, which is all that should die if there were a big problem. I personally can't run 16-bit apps on 7 because I'm running the 64-bit variant.


That.



Carenath said:


> ICQ.
> Minicom & Hyperterminal.


It is. Now we have WinRS. Thanks for the vast improvement, Microsoft. [/sarcasm]

Ah, well. PuTTY FTW.



Californian_Calico said:


> I thought 16-bit programs were dead...


Oh, they're tryin'. And failin'.


----------



## Koray (Aug 6, 2010)

Miro Player


----------



## SnowFox (Aug 6, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Haven't heard of that, especially since 16-bit programs run in NTVDM, which is all that should die if there were a big problem. I personally can't run 16-bit apps on 7 because I'm running the 64-bit variant.





net-cat said:


> I've never had this happen. Don't get me wrong, the original Windows-on-Windows is a piece of shit, but that's largely because 16-bit Windows was a piece of shit. When killing 16-bit Windows programs, your best bet is to go for the NTVDM.EXE process associated with it.



If you kill the ntvdm process it doesn't crash windows, but if you click the X by mistake it just reboots the computer saying something like "windows didn't shut down properly". I don't know if that's the 7 version of a blue screen. There's nothing useful left in the event logs though. I don't know if there's a way of disabling the close button either.


----------



## Carenath (Aug 6, 2010)

net-cat said:


> It is. Now we have WinRS. Thanks for the vast improvement, Microsoft. [/sarcasm]


 You can buy HyperTermnal v7 for Windows 7 here: https://store.hilgraeve.com/order/index_html
Minicom is still a available as a package on CentOS, rather useful for serial debugging.. so  suppose it won't ever go away.

Also, With Putty.. how can Hilgraeve justify charging $59.99


----------



## Leafblower29 (Aug 13, 2010)

WinZip

Also about DOS.

I use Windows98 on Microsoft Virtual PC.


----------



## Dr. Durr (Aug 13, 2010)

I got Windows Chicago on mine


----------



## ArielMT (Aug 13, 2010)

chaomasterr said:


> I got Windows Chicago on mine


 
I got Windows Cairo on one of mine, dualbooting FreeDOS.

More on-topic:  Programs I thought were dead...

CP/M and VMS.  Windows 7 inherits legacies from both.


----------



## Runefox (Aug 13, 2010)

ArielMT said:


> CP/M and VMS.  Windows 7 inherits legacies from both.


 
Drive letters, for one thing. Back in the day I was confused by the Linux file structure, but nowadays I love the concept of an agnostic filesystem that doesn't care what partition or what drive or other storage your files are on and presents itself seamlessly. You can do things like symlinks/junctions in NTFS, but those are limited to local storage, and you can mount partitions and drives into a folder, but that's fairly limited as well.


----------



## Hateful Bitch (Aug 13, 2010)

Apparently that language Visual Basic is dead. But it's what they teach at my school ;/


----------



## Runefox (Aug 13, 2010)

Teto said:


> Apparently that language Visual Basic is dead. But it's what they teach at my school ;/


 
Actually, VB still exists as Visual Basic .NET/2010. Even if you may never use VB again, learning it (since it's fairly easy) helps to develop the concepts that help shift your way of thinking to a programmer's mindset. Learning pseudo-code helps tremendously in deciphering functions and code in other programming languages that you aren't familiar with - Because the basic concepts remain much the same.


----------



## net-cat (Aug 13, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Drive letters, for one thing.


Oh, it gets even better. The Windows namespace is a mess. Can anyone tell me what the "\\?\" and "\\.\" prefixes mean?


----------



## SnowFox (Aug 13, 2010)

net-cat said:


> Oh, it gets even better. The Windows namespace is a mess. Can anyone tell me what the "\\?\" and "\\.\" prefixes mean?


 
Isn't \\?\ something to do with it being a unicode path name where it can be more than 255 characters?

I think I remember reading about it when looking up API functions on msdn. Never seen \\.\ though.


----------



## net-cat (Aug 13, 2010)

SnowFox said:


> Isn't \\?\ something to do with it being a unicode path name where it can be more than 255 characters?


Not far off, actually. That tells the system to send the following text without any processing. Like "/" doesn't get changed to "\"


----------



## Dr. Durr (Aug 21, 2010)

net-cat said:


> Not far off, actually. That tells the system to send the following text without any processing. Like "/" doesn't get changed to "\"


 
BUMP


----------

