# GWFL can Fuck Off



## Conker (Dec 28, 2011)

Games for Windows Live! It's shitty shit!

Bought _Bulletstorm_ off of Steam and downloaded it. I went to play it and within one minute am already pissed off. "YOU NEED TO LOG INTO GFWL" well shit. I don't have an account, or I guess I do. I tried making one with my generic hotmail, but that was registered and I couldn't get my password to work. I can log into that hotmail account just fine though. So, I use my gmail account, but this whole ordeal takes way longer than it needs to. 

And now, where are my fucking achievements for Steam? I don't see any! I like having them there. 

Had to download fucking software I don't want to use. That's a great way to win friends! 

Not to mention, the game suffers from being a console port. It's not all bad, but there are things. THINGS that piss me off. Can't minimize it for example. 

At least I don't have to log in every time I open the game :\ But damn. 

I've been doing the whole "PC gaming" thing for a decent while now, but this is the first time I've ran into DRM that actually pissed me off (AKA, first time I couldn't just use Steam the way God intended)


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 28, 2011)

I cannot fucking stand GWFL like, at all. It's the shittiest DRM ever. It's fucking pointless. It may have been there for anti-piracy purposes BUT LOOK HOW WELL THAT DID.

Steam, however, has been nothing but beneficial. I cannot imagine playing a game that isn't on steam anymore. The need to have a current internet connection for a large number of games is a bit of an arseache, though.


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## Kaamos (Dec 28, 2011)

GFWL is bad, but my experiences with it haven't been as terrible as most peoples' seem to be. After I got it working it never bothered me again.

And Bulletstorm? Eugh.

Edit: A similar thing that bugs me is when games force you to make an account on their server/website/whatever to play the game. I've had to do that for like, three games I've gotten from this sale alone. If I buy it off steam, just let me use my fucking steam account.


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## mrfoxwily (Dec 28, 2011)

Yeah, I hate Games Windows For Live, too.


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## Aidy (Dec 28, 2011)

Apparently I had to download 3 updates for F1 2011 before I could play. 3 updated.


Then it broke my game. Codemasters fixed it for me though. Oh and did I mention it refuses to update Batman Arkham City? It keeps asking me to update when I launch, I say yes so it'll piss off then it says it can't update it. Stupid fucking thing, why should they release games on Steam if it's already got one crap annoying DRM on it?


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Dec 28, 2011)

Ubisoft's DRM program and EA's Origin can fuck off right with GFWL too.


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## Aidy (Dec 28, 2011)

ShÃ nwÃ ng said:


> Ubisoft's DRM program and EA's Origin can fuck off right with GFWL too.



Ugh, Ubisoft's DRM has to be the worst. Permanent internet connection my ass, they can fuck right off. I've decided to just get a crack for all the Ubisoft games I own with that DRM.


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## Guardian of Lies (Dec 28, 2011)

"There is an update for your game. Please exit and allow the update to proceed" or some crap. Okay, fine. Exited the game. Threw an error that disappeared. Relaunched my game, same thing. Endless loop of errors, just like my windows live messenger email. 
And to my knowledge, there's no way to fix it.


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## Conker (Dec 28, 2011)

I like how almost every poster used the phrase "fuck off" 

BECAUSE IT SO APTLY SUMS UP MY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SHIT


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## Verin Asper (Dec 28, 2011)

dont mind me with a cracked version of Steam, where folks found out that you can TRICK steam into giving you free games.
Only problem I have with it is that one of my games is stuck to my old live account...well good thing I dont even play online on that one game anyway.


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## Conker (Dec 28, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> dont mind me with a cracked version of Steam, where folks found out that you can TRICK steam into giving you free games.
> Only problem I have with it is that one of my games is stuck to my old live account...well good thing I dont even play online on that one game anyway.


I don't approve of that. I'll happy buy my video games, though I can see purchasing a game and then torrenting a cracked version to get around DRM. Some DRM is way worse than others (Ubisofts vs GFWL).

But, I'll always buy my video games.


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## Lobar (Dec 28, 2011)

This is why I don't play genuine copies of DRM'd games :B


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## Flatline (Dec 29, 2011)

GFWL is the most pathetic piece of software I've ever used. And I love how they want to compete with Steam but still charging 10 bucks or so _just to change your gamertag_. Um, Microsoft, I don't want to burst your bubble but STEAM ALLOWS YOU TO CHANGE YOUR NAME FOR FREE ANYTIME.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Dec 29, 2011)

GWFl is so good for anti-piracy :V
Any valid GWFL key used to go with all the GWFL games before Bioshock 2


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## Cain (Dec 29, 2011)

GFWL is pretty shit, except for Bioshock 2.

Origin is shit, but it's getting that bit better, but is still a turd compared to steam.
FUCKING LOVE STEAM.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Dec 29, 2011)

Jagged Edge said:


> GFWL is pretty shit, except for Bioshock 2.
> 
> Origin is shit, but it's getting that bit better, but is still a turd compared to steam.
> FUCKING LOVE STEAM.


Origin...All my hate. It's so useless piece of software


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 29, 2011)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> Origin...All my hate. It's so useless piece of spyware



Ficksed


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Dec 29, 2011)

Stuff like this is why I pretty much stopped buying games.


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## Cain (Dec 29, 2011)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Stuff like this is why I pretty much stopped buying games.


STEEEEEEAM


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Dec 29, 2011)

Jagged Edge said:


> STEEEEEEAM





Conker said:


> Bought _Bulletstorm_ off of Steam



Nnnnnnope.


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## Cain (Dec 29, 2011)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> Nnnnnnope.



Conker was pissed at the fact that he bought a game through steam, and still had to sign into GWFL.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Dec 29, 2011)

Jagged Edge said:


> Conker was pissed at the fact that he bought a game through steam, and still had to sign into GWFL.



And that's why I don't buy games anymore.


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## Aidy (Dec 29, 2011)

Steam still isn't a fantastic DRM. You can't install your games if the servers are 'too busy', you can't even play them if they're too busy. British users can't see certain games for about a month after their release until they can buy them and even them they're quite expensive, it's pretty laggy sometimes and the servers break quite often which stops people connecting to it and playing online. I hate all DRMs in general, they don't stop piracy at all, they just increase it.


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## LizardKing (Dec 29, 2011)

ALL OF MY HATE


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## shteev (Dec 29, 2011)

I want fucking Valve to take over the market entirely and completely rid of all this fucking GFWL and Xbox LIVE and PS3 _shit_. I want them to make their own console that runs on Steam, and every PC game will run on Steam as well.

_Fuck everyone Valve does it right._


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## Aidy (Dec 29, 2011)

shteev said:


> I want fucking Valve to take over the market entirely and completely rid of all this fucking GFWL and Xbox LIVE and PS3 _shit_. I want them to make their own console that runs on Steam, and every PC game will run on Steam as well.
> 
> _Fuck everyone Valve does it right._




PS3 supports Steam or something.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 29, 2011)

shteev said:


> I want them to make their own *console* that runs on Steam



Uuurrgh


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## shteev (Dec 29, 2011)

Gibby said:


> Uuurrgh



Well, if Valve wipes out all the others then the console gamers need something, right?

I agree with you, though, consoles suck.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 29, 2011)

shteev said:


> Well, if Valve wipes out all the others then the console gamers need something, right?



Fuck valve. The only thing I really like out of them is Steam. It'd be a shame for them to take over the market.


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## Cain (Dec 29, 2011)

Gibby said:


> Fuck valve. The only thing I really like out of them is Steam. It'd be a shame for them to take over the market.


Yeah, I mean, what else will us PC gamers brag about to the consolefags?


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## Runefox (Dec 29, 2011)

Gibby said:


> Fuck valve. The only thing I really like out of them is Steam. It'd be a shame for them to take over the market.


So, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Portal, Left 4 Dead, y'know, all those critically-acclaimed titles that Valve belts out from time to time aren't good for the market?

Valve makes more profit per employee than Apple or Google. They're proof that PC gaming is highly profitable, and that piracy isn't the big problem that it's made out to be. They have an extremely good development staff who listen to community concerns (remember the Steam 2010 beta? They basically fixed all the issues anyone had with it), Gabe Newell, fat bastard that he is, is one of the most beloved faces in gaming today (unlike the head of a certain other publisher I know (cough*ActiBlizzard*cough*Kotick*cough)), and generally they're more or less the Google of the gaming world. Steam itself used to be derided as being nothing more than DRM, and at first it was, until it turned into quite possibly the easiest way to get games on the PC - Even easier than with consoles, and a whole lot less expensive to boot.

Anyway, Microsoft tried to copy that, and they didn't get anywhere. The big draw to GFWL is that it's tied to XBL. At first, with games like Shadowrun, that meant that XBL players could play with GFWL players, except that experiment failed miserably when they realized that a gamepad can't keep up with a keyboard and mouse.

As for Origin, I'd be surprised if it survives to next year.

Aaaaaand as for Ubisoft, well, they stopped developing for the PC altogether because they cried "OHSHITPIRATES", except that most of their legitimate clientele probably also pirated their games to get around their bullshit DRM.


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## Aidy (Dec 29, 2011)

Runefox said:


> As for Origin, I'd be surprised if it survives to next year.



Don't get too cocky, it's EA. They can dominate whoever they want and they always get their way, I can see Origin being around for a very very long time.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 29, 2011)

Runefox said:


> So, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Portal, Left 4 Dead, y'know, all those critically-acclaimed titles that Valve belts out from time to time aren't good for the market?



It's more to do with that I simply don't fucking like any of them, and as a PC gamer, I do not want to see their stuff dominate the market because chances are, I wouldn't like any of their future stuff. I want to play games that suit my tastes, and I don't want to be stuck in a world where it's harder to find that kind of thing (that actually has an active community) than it already is currently.

PS: This is in response to the idea that Valve should take over the market. I don't care if you like Valve's games or don't like them at all, or if those  particular titles are successful or not. That's your/their bag, not  mine. I like Steam, though.


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## Verin Asper (Dec 29, 2011)

Conker said:


> I don't approve of that. I'll happy buy my video games, though I can see purchasing a game and then torrenting a cracked version to get around DRM. Some DRM is way worse than others (Ubisofts vs GFWL).
> 
> But, I'll always buy my video games.


90% of my games were bought, the last 10% have no form or shape to be owned (yea I check GOG, they only deal with popular old games) around and havent reach abandonware status

thanks to the steam sale all the games I did pirated I now own a legit copy.


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## Runefox (Dec 29, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> Don't get too cocky, it's EA. *They can dominate whoever they want* and they always get their way, I can see Origin being around for a very very long time.


Nah. That time has come and gone. Activision's moved in on their turf, and they're hurting. The fact that their biggest non-MMO series, Battlefield, competes directly with Activision's biggest non-MMO series, is a pretty big testament to that. Not to mention most PC-based publishers are already signed on with Steam and get a pretty decent DRM platform from its pretty massive community. Origin will "be around" for a "very very long time" insofar as EA Download Manager has "been around" for a "very very long time". It's there, but nobody gives two shits and nobody uses it.



			
				Gibby said:
			
		

> PS: This is in response to the idea that Valve should take over the market. I don't care if you like Valve's games or don't like them at all, or if those particular titles are successful or not. That's your/their bag, not mine. I like Steam, though.



Fair enough. As far as market domination, I'd like them to take over the PC distribution market altogether, and start putting out Steam gift cards. Fuck brick and mortar, fuck GFWL, and fuck Origin (and also a big fuck to CoD Elite). Steam is a marketplace, DRM platform, community, and so much more. It IS the PC's XBL or PSN, and that, quite frankly, is how it should be. There's no competing with Steam at this point, and any attempts to do so (much like the complaints in this post) will only serve to fracture the market.


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## Aidy (Dec 29, 2011)

Runefox said:


> Nah. That time has come and gone. Activision's moved in on their turf, and they're hurting. The fact that their biggest non-MMO series, Battlefield, competes directly with Activision's biggest non-MMO series, is a pretty big testament to that. Not to mention most PC-based publishers are already signed on with Steam and get a pretty decent DRM platform from its pretty massive community. Origin will "be around" for a "very very long time" insofar as EA Download Manager has "been around" for a "very very long time". It's there, but nobody gives two shits and nobody uses it.



Well they did a good job at beating MW3 in sales, popularity and awards. Don't underestimate EA, Activision are an older company so if what you're saying is a time thing, then EA still have a long way to go.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 29, 2011)

Runefox said:


> Fair enough. As far as market domination, I'd like them to take over the PC distribution market altogether, and start putting out Steam gift cards. Fuck brick and mortar, fuck GFWL, and fuck Origin (and also a big fuck to CoD Elite). Steam is a marketplace, DRM platform, community, and so much more. It IS the PC's XBL or PSN, and that, quite frankly, is how it should be. There's no competing with Steam at this point, and any attempts to do so (much like the complaints in this post) will only serve to fracture the market.



I agree completely. Though while I treat Steam as if the sun shines out of its arse, it manages to piss me off sometimes. Before Steam is allowed to get any bigger, I feel that there are a good few issues that need to be addressed first. But so far, I would pick steam as being better than any other program I have on my PC. There's lots of cool shit they could add to it to make it even better. Its own emailing system, for example. They just added an inbox for gifts and the like, so why not go a little further?


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## Runefox (Dec 29, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> Well they did a good job at beating MW3 in sales, popularity and awards. Don't underestimate EA, Activision are an older company so if what you're saying is a time thing, then EA still have a long way to go.


The point I'm trying to make is, EA and Activision share the same business model, and are both rivals in every way. The most EA could do is come up with something and have Activision move in and attempt to make a claim with something of their own. At best, there would be two Origins - One on EA's side, and another from Activision, splitting the market down the middle. Frankly, Steam has the most lasting power out of either as far as the PC digital distribution market goes.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 29, 2011)

Runefox said:


> The point I'm trying to make is, EA and Activision share the same business model, and are both rivals in every way.



That's the main reason I hate them. Games are (arguably) an art form, and they should innovate, as well as fill unexplored niches and create new ones. Not participate in dick-measuring contests with games that are largely identical to each other. EA and Activision forget that games are made to be enjoyed and experienced, not consumed.


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## Conker (Dec 29, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> Steam still isn't a fantastic DRM. You can't install your games if the servers are 'too busy', you can't even play them if they're too busy. British users can't see certain games for about a month after their release until they can buy them and even them they're quite expensive, it's pretty laggy sometimes and the servers break quite often which stops people connecting to it and playing online. I hate all DRMs in general, they don't stop piracy at all, they just increase it.


I've never really had any of the problems of which you speak. Sometimes Steam goes down, but that doesn't bother me, really. I wish they had a more scheduled maintenance instead of a "it's broken right now, come back later", but I understand that the software needs fixing now and then.

I live in Merica though, so maybe that's why I don't have some of those other problems :3


LizardKing said:


> ALL OF MY HATE


I remember that thread!  Pretty much the same here


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## Runefox (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah, as for the "servers too busy" thing... First off, you can change to a different server under settings. There are dozens. Secondly, you only need to be connected to the server to verify the DRM the very first time you launch the game - After that, Steam can typically launch the game in offline mode. I say "typically" because while I've never run into a problem with it, I'm not 100% sure if there are any special cases.



Gibby said:


> That's the main reason I hate them. Games are (arguably) an art form, and they should innovate, as well as fill unexplored niches and create new ones. Not participate in dick-measuring contests with games that are largely identical to each other. EA and Activision forget that games are made to be enjoyed and experienced, not consumed.


They didn't "forget", they changed their mind. Activision's (and yes, Blizzard's) CEO, Bobby Kotick, absolutely treats games as a commodity to be consumed, and not an artform, and constantly looks for studios to buy out in order to increase the amount of IP available for the company. As for EA, they basically were the ones who first did the last point, and though they've taken chances on games like Mirror's Edge, they never got the kind of response they were looking for. The promised sequel, after all, has been all but canned. I guess you can't blame them for taking a chance and getting shy from the lukewarm response (though with high praise critically), but it doesn't help the situation.


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## Verin Asper (Dec 30, 2011)

I still have some faith in EA...after all I only play the Command and Conquer series.
bad news is being that they killed off so far the tiberium series (many folks agree that 3/Tiberium dawn was decent 4...4 was gosh darn horrible. Really I have to LEVEL up to get units?) and RA3 was also decent...they they released uprising which made it a horrible. Also whats with all RTS folks all going 3 way wars, Dawn of War series are like 8 way fights but did start off as 3 way fight.


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## Aidy (Dec 30, 2011)

Runefox said:


> Yeah, as for the "servers too busy" thing... First off, you can change to a different server under settings. There are dozens. Secondly, you only need to be connected to the server to verify the DRM the very first time you launch the game - After that, Steam can typically launch the game in offline mode. I say "typically" because while I've never run into a problem with it, I'm not 100% sure if there are any special cases.



I'm not changing my server to one outside of Europe, they do go down quite frequently and my friends get d/c'd from the servers every now and then too, it's pretty annoying. And as for Steam not launching games when I tell it to, it does say that the servers are too busy to handle my request, it's done it quite a lot. It does it when I try to install my games, it's very annoying. Origin does have better servers and much faster download speeds, I noticed that when downloading Battlefield 3 (which amounts to almost 20gb) and that took about 30-40 minutes, whereas Skyrim which is only 7gb took an hour and 10 minutes.


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## Conker (Dec 30, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> I'm not changing my server to one outside of Europe, they do go down quite frequently and my friends get d/c'd from the servers every now and then too, it's pretty annoying. And as for Steam not launching games when I tell it to, it does say that the servers are too busy to handle my request, it's done it quite a lot. It does it when I try to install my games, it's very annoying. Origin does have better servers and much faster download speeds, I noticed that when downloading Battlefield 3 (which amounts to almost 20gb) and that took about 30-40 minutes, whereas Skyrim which is only 7gb took an hour and 10 minutes.


I've switched servers to fuckall no-one-uses ones before to increase my download speeds :V The one I used was outside of the U.S. to.


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## Runefox (Dec 30, 2011)

Aidy70060 said:


> I'm not changing my server to one outside of Europe


Well, inside of Europe, there are at least a dozen to two dozen servers available, so I'm not sure how this is a problem. For that matter, choosing a server in, say, Vietnam, wouldn't really cause you much grief seeing as how you're connecting for the sole purpose of throughput, and latency means nothing at all.



> they do go down quite frequently and my friends get d/c'd from the servers every now and then too, it's pretty annoying


That doesn't happen very often, for me, at least. Maybe the situation is different on the other side of the pond (I hear the network infrastructure in Europe in general is pretty bad), but overall in North America the worst that usually happens is scheduled maintenance. Which of course doesn't cause me any issue, because my games still launch and even if they didn't, as long as I'd launched them at least once before while connected, I can launch them offline.



> And as for Steam not launching games when I tell it to, it does say that the servers are too busy to handle my request, it's done it quite a lot. It does it when I try to install my games, it's very annoying. Origin does have better servers and much faster download speeds, I noticed that when downloading Battlefield 3 (which amounts to almost 20gb) and that took about 30-40 minutes, whereas Skyrim which is only 7gb took an hour and 10 minutes.


I typically get 1-3MB/sec off Steam's Toronto server. I'm currently grabbing a bunch of games I purchased today through the Steam holiday sales at 1~2MB/sec, and you can be sure the servers are heavily loaded at this time of year.


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## DW_ (Dec 30, 2011)

Ugh GFWL. It's up there with Origin.


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