# Attn: Runefox, or anyone good at computer building



## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

My system is old, and although I'm looking at getting some parts, like the video cature care/tuner card like in my post earlier, a possible better scanner, a bigger harddrive....I was looking at the site that you(Runefox) sent me, and saw that they were Canadian, and had a neat computer building thing on their site. I would like toget some help on it, as some of the items, I dont know if I need, or if it's just extra money being tossed away that not needed be.

I want a system that will play games, like the released Final Fantasy XI ultimate collection, and the future FF XIV, and perhaps others. I don't play many PC games, but there are some that are pretty neat. I also would like something that is a good multi-media system...plays music and movies really well. 

I have 2 gig of ram...I think...currently, and would at least like to start at that much memory, and I don't need a mouse, I have one, a good microsoft one....I need to have an ethernet card to hook up my cable modem. Not sure what else offhand.

Sorry again for yet another question....and thanks for all the help...I really appreciate it...much more helpful then other sites, that tend to ignore you, or treat you like a noob....yes I'm a noob at some computer stuff, that's why I'm asking for help.  

I just got surfing that site you sent me and found it quite neat. Is it a good company to deal with, this NCIX.com site? I just wanted to be sure....I just like they are all in Canadian prices.

Thanks again.


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## Duality Jack (Nov 29, 2009)

Okay do you want current gen or slightly older but cheaper? as PCI-E graphics cards are a minimum,  as far as ram goes if you are using vist and up for gaming I recommend about 4 gb 3 will work but a bit slower and for graphics cards ook in the range of price and see what you are willing to part with, money wise and I may point a few out.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 29, 2009)

Building a system that can play games is pretty simple given how over-powered all the CPUs are nowadays, and that they're of secondary importance to the video card (GPU) anyway.  The basics are simple - make sure it's multi-core, make sure it has a PCI-E for video, make sure it can take 4+ gigs of RAM, and make sure the GPU doesn't suck.  Oh, and important thing - let us know too how much you're looking to spend.

For Canadian prices, you can look at the site you mentioned as well as NewEgg.ca, and TigerDirect.ca, which both sell components as well as bare-bones systems.  Starting with 2 gigs of RAM is fine, but I would suggest more in the long run.  You'll also want to be mindful of the power supply (IE, make sure it can handle what you're planning on doing with the system).  Things like the mouse or keyboard are very minor peripherals so whether you have them or not isn't going to save you much cash anyway.

Some reasonably priced examples:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5263757&CatId=3508

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5367062&CatId=1916

In most barebone cases, you'll need to still buy the video card separately, and in some cases may also need to buy the RAM.  Bear in mind as well that many times, barebone kits include fairly basic motherboards - ones that often not full size, and have few extra slots for upgrading (be it PCI, PCI-E or memory slots).

The video card is the one thing you should put extra cash into more so than anything else, since it's the one thing most responsible for performance in a game.  There's been quite a few threads in the past month that have touched on good video cards, so they're worth looking up.  To quickly sum them up, the best bang for the buck is to get the upper-end of either ATI/AMD or Nvidia's offers while not going right to bleeding edge.  An ATI Radeon 4870 or an Nvidia GTS 250 are both excellent cards that are exceptionally good performers yet can cost as little as $175.

*rubs head* And that's about all the info I can drag out of my brain for now - nearliy 6am... and need to go to bed yet. ^^;  RuneFox's rested and younger brain will likely conjour up more useful info in the morning for ya.  Feel free to ask whatever you wish and we'll help you out.


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## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

Well...I have a HD monitor...no the best, has some "burn"marks on it, but is useable...I have an optical mouse, and I have a keyboard and a router and a pair of speakers(small, slightly bigger then small) I don't want to spend an insane amount, nor do I want to get something that will be underpowered in a matter of months or even a year....this has to last me at least a fair bit of time. I want to stay under 1k, but if it goes over some, so let it be, but only if it's unavoidable. I want a decent video card, and sound card....I said 2 gb ram as a minimal....meaning, that's the least I want, as a starting point. I'd like to have some decent amount of USB ports, although I have a small 4 plug USB hub which helps. I have time, and prices change, but was thinking about into the new year...this computer is acting wonky at times...still works, just sometimes just acts up.

Also, besides games and movies and music, I use Flash and Illustrator and Photoshop Elements alot....would need to be able to handle those as well. 

I just want to be sure to get what I need, avoid what I don't really need, and get what would really help. I also need to roughly know what kinda of price I'm aiming for.  Duel, triple quad cores...all over-whelming to me...and it's not that part, it's all the info after the duel, triple and quad core part.  Then jumping into a brand new OS....Win 7....I barely used Visa for abit on my friend's parent's computer and it was quite a change...I can't imagine the changes in Win7.


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## Duality Jack (Nov 29, 2009)

Is it possible to upgrade your current system?


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## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

The Drunken Ace said:


> Is it possible to upgrade your current system?



I've been upgrading this baby for years now..I have a 1.80 Ghz P4 system, can't go higher with that.....so I need to jump to the duel/triple/quad core systems, and need a motherboard and ram to match, plus more ram to upkeep to the modern games, need a bigger hard drive...have a 250Gb and a 6Gb, plus a backup 8Gb SDHC card in a SDHC reader plugged into my computer. I just have alot of things starting to go outdated at once. last update was the 250Gb harddrive. it was to replace mt 6G one, but the C:/ drive one was corrupted, or on it's last legs, so they backed the stuff up on the new 250Gb one and made it the new C drive. Plus I'd like to have more USB ports as well.


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## LizardKing (Nov 29, 2009)

Come on Runefox, stop letting down the team!


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## LizardKing (Nov 29, 2009)

*Re: Attn: anyone good at computer building*

Oh you sneaky bugger


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## ArielMT (Nov 29, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Come on Runefox, stop letting down the team!



Advice from others is just as welcome, and I'm curious to see what's recommended as well.



LizardKing said:


> Oh you sneaky bugger



Freaking double-click got stuck on me.


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## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah, I just want to build up an idea of what to get, but some things I don't know about, and it leaves me a little bewildered.  I always have trouble coming up with a new computer, because I don't know what is good and what isn't that important.


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## Lobar (Nov 29, 2009)

Slightly OT, but what's a good resource for someone looking to build their first computer?  Mybnew year's resolution is going to be to finally build one myself, but there's no reason for me to not get a head start.


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## Runefox (Nov 29, 2009)

@Lobar: Well, you could read this post, but if you're talking about the part where you get in there and actually put everything together, then that's something you need to really learn for yourself. The best way to make sure you don't do anything wrong is to read the instruction manuals. It's not manly, I know, but still.  They're an excellent resource for figuring things out for the first time. If the time comes where you need some help with it, post on the forums and I'm sure either myself or any of the others can help you out with it.

Anyway, back to the main topic...

Well, if you want to leave the parts you choose up to yourself, I can hold back on actually outright building something for you (though if you DID want that, scroll to the bottom of this post). NCIX is extremely good as far as its track record goes, and offers good (and inexpensive) shipping options, just about every payment option you can think of (Paypal, Interac Online, Credit, etc etc), and has a good selection and often has really good sales. I believe they're based out of BC. TigerDirect, as ToeClaws mentioned, is another fairly good site. They're mostly based out of the US like NewEgg, but they sometimes have better deals and a different selection of parts. You should take a look at all three sites to see where you can get what and for the best price; Part of building a computer is trying to find the better deals on components.

If you wanna build from scratch, the first thing you need to ask yourself is what kind of CPU you should get. Are you partial to AMD or Intel? In my experience, AMD offers processors at a lower price compared to Intel, while Intel offers processors that will outperform the AMD processors at a much higher price. In terms of quality, there isn't any major difference between them aside from the speed and price tag. Once you've figured out which brand to go with, you need to figure out how much horsepower you need/want. Nowadays, quad-core processors aren't very expensive, but dual cores are cheaper still; Depending on your budget, it might be best to go with a quad core anyway as a future-proofing measure. For most people, I would recommend a mid-to-high-end AMD Phenom II X4 processor, as it provides ample performance at a good cost. In general, look for the amount of _cache_ a processor has, in addition to the number of cores and the frequency (GHz). Generally, though, you can't compare directly across the two brands.

Next, you need to choose a motherboard, perhaps the most important part of the computer. The two brands I'd recommend most would be ASUS or Gigabyte; Most of the other brands don't have the same build quality. You need to be sure that the motherboard you look at matches the socket of the processor you picked out - For example, a Phenom II would need an *AM3* socket, while a Core i5 would need an *LGA-1166* socket, and a Core i7 would need an *LGA-1366* socket. You can usually find motherboards listed by socket so as to narrow your search. Pay attention to what's listed for the chipset - An AMD system will run much better with an AMD chipset, and as a rule, the higher the number for the chipset's name, the better the performance will be. Also pay attention to the number of PCI and PCI Express slots are available, and how many Serial ATA and RAM slots are available; All of these will affect how much you can upgrade the system. Choosing a motherboard can be a very inexact science, but as a general rule, try to stay away from boards in around the $100 or less range, and focus on boards that weigh in between $100-150. Higher quality construction is generally a quality of motherboards in that range, which will keep your system running stable. Also, and I need to stress this, *most motherboards come with sound and ethernet built in*. So unless you find a board that doesn't have these things (very rare), you have no reason to buy them separately. Desktop motherboards also generally come in two "form factors" - Micro ATX (mATX) and full ATX (ATX). The difference is fairly large, and mATX boards have much fewer PCI/PCI Express slots available to them. The major advantage is that mATX motherboards can fit into shorter cases, while ATX motherboards require a full-height case. If you don't have much room to put a computer, then go for mATX; Otherwise, go for ATX.

Next, RAM. This is fairly straightforward; You probably don't need stuff with heat spreaders, but if you can find "dual channel" kits for a low price, then go for it. Match the RAM type to your motherboard - Most nowadays will be DDR3. Brands I'd recommend are, in order of preference, Corsair, Kingston, and G.Skill. You'll probably want 4GB of RAM to start off if you're going with Windows 7, but RAM is dirt cheap right now - If you can afford more, or more isn't a whole lot extra, go for it. 4GB is the sweet spot for Vista/7, since it allows the system to automatically preload many of your most commonly-used programs; Google Chrome, for example, launches near-instantly. The more, the merrier, but bear in mind whatever budget you have set for yourself and that the potential gains (right now) past 4GB are not very high.

Now, hard drives. For brands, I'd recommend Western Digital first and foremost, and Samsung isn't bad either. Seagate used to be really hot, but since acquiring Maxtor, they've been having incredible quality control issues (go figure, huh?), and from what I hear, they're still hit or miss. The capacity is up to you; The 1TB Black (WD1001FALS) drives from Western Digital are both fast and spacious, so I'd give a personal recommendation to those.

As for an optical drive (DVD/etc), unless you need Blu-Ray, I'd stick with a DVD-RW drive; They're dirt cheap. LG and LiteOn make solid drives, so grab a Serial ATA variant of either in whatever colour you prefer (or the colour of your case).

Now, the case (the tower). Some cases come with power supplies, but unless it's something like a Thermaltake, I wouldn't trust it. Look for a case that comes with at least one or two fans, and has a lot of room inside to work with (in particular, take a look at the number of drive bays, and take a look at the internal shot to try to get a feeling for how easy it might be to work with). Your choice of case should be directly related to your choice of motherboard - If you chose an mATX motherboard, then you should choose an mATX case. I absolutely do NOT recommend getting what's called a "Small Form Factor" or SFF case; These are the cases that require half-height add-in cards, and they can and will limit you to a very small selection of expansion cards.

Next, the power supply. This is also incredibly important. Choosing a power supply is difficult, because in terms of wattage, no two advertised wattages are the same. Most low-end power supplies are rated for their absolute maximum, and at room temperature; This number decreases as heat increases, and since it was the maximum, it's likely that 50-100W of that is already lost. A 500W no-name power supply might only be a 350W in practice. What you need to look for is the "Continuous" wattage - Most brand-name power supplies will have this listed. For brands, take a look at Antec, PC Power & Cooling (overkill for you), Corsair, and SeaSonic. Most people can run just fine with 500W or even a 400W, but depending on what you put in the system, you might want to bump up to a 650W or higher for stability's sake.

Now, since you want to be able to play some games, a video card is necessary. You don't need to spend $400 on a video card for what you're doing, so try to limit it to $100 at most. There are two major lines of video cards out there - ATi's Radeon HD series, and nVidia's GeForce series. Their model numbers can be extremely frustrating and difficult to discern, so I'll just up and give you recommendations: If ATi is what you want to go with, go for a Radeon HD 4670; If it's nVidia, grab a GeForce GT 240. Either will be more than enough to run Final Fantasy XI or XIV, and you'll be able to play a bunch more, too (not to mention smooth HD video playback). If for some reason you absolutely must have DirectX 11, then go with the Radeon HD 5750 - It's a little more expensive (about $165), but it'll be both faster and have full DirectX 11 support.

Finally, the operating system. If you're decommissioning your old PC, you can transfer the Windows XP (or whatever version) key from it to the new computer to save yourself the Upgrade Tax, but it's probably best to grab Windows 7 at this point and upgrade yourself to a 64-bit operating system. Of the available versions, Home Premium is actually more than enough for most people, as the other versions merely come with things like encryption, domain support, remote desktop, and so on (and if none of that means anything to you, then there's my point).

Anyway, yeah. It's a bit of a read, but hopefully it'll help you some. If you want a TL;DR, here are some recommendations based on a ~$1000 budget to get you started:
*CPU*: AMD Phenom II X4 925 2.8GHz/6MB Cache ($169.58)
*Motherboard*: Gigabyte GA-MA790XT ($138.53)
*RAM*: Corsair XMS3 2x2GB DDR3-1333 ($144.99)
*Hard Drive*: Western Digital 1TB Black WD1001FALS ($117.85)
*Optical Drive*: Liteon 24x SATA DVD-RW IHAS124 ($32.83)
*Case*: Antec Two Hundred ($59.99)
*Power Supply*: Corsair VX550W ($114.99)
*Video Card*: ASUS Radeon HD 4670 1GB ($89.99)
*Operating System*: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit ($128.93)
TOTAL: *$997.68* (before shipping+taxes)


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## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks for the reply...I was lost at most of what you typed. I wasn't intrested in a Blu-Ray drive....but what about sound card? Don't/wouldn't I need one? Also, on NCIX.com, how do I build a PC, and pick those parts/elements you listed, so I can put it in my wish list for the future. Is Windows hard to use? I have used XP for a long time, and tried Vista, and that was so different to use. What about USB ports? How many are included in that layout, front and back? I hope a fair bit.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 29, 2009)

Hmm... well, spending up to $1K will easily get you into a decent system.  I was worried you were gonna say something more like "I don't want to spend more than $400".  On Tigerdirect, there are a number of Barebones systems that even include hard drives, Windows 7 and other components.  

As I said originally, the single biggest make or break component is the video card.  A 4 year old dual core Athlon 64 X2 can still play EVERY game there is if it has a good video card in it.  

There is one other thing I should have mentioned last night (but was probably too tired to think about): Try to avoid "mini" systems, like the Shuttle PCs.  One major problem with mini systems is expandibility.  They use micro-sized ATX motherboards and there is often very little room inside to change up the components.  It makes trying to fit the video card you want, or a new sound card or whatever nearly impossible.  

So, for a better example in your price range, check this out:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5543246&CatId=3508

Now that's a surprisingly powerful computer that's got good specs.  You just need to get a good video card, and then get the OS.  I suppose if you really want, you can add a better sound card too, but that's optional.  

That's sorta the package arrangement you're best off with - lots of power, good expandability, but still a very fair price.  You can get the video card for around $200, and the OS for $99 to $399, depending on what version of Windows you go with.


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## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5543246&CatId=3508

That looks cool....but does it come assembled? there was so much text of stuff I had no clue what they were talking about.  I don't know how to assemble a computer at all. I guess I would ask them to include a video and sound card and Windows 7

I wish I was computer literate when it came to putting together a computer.  I just can't keep up with the constant changes.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 29, 2009)

No, that one doesn't look like it comes pre-assembled. :/  The pre-assembled barebones offerings aren't really as nice (from Tigerdirect anyway).  You could always take the parts to a PC place and ask to have it built - you can probably get that done for a minimum cost, $20 to $50.


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## Runefox (Nov 29, 2009)

Nah, you don't need a sound card, like I said, most motherboards come with HD audio on the motherboard itself - Same with ethernet. As for the barebones stuff, it mostly comes as a kit, so you'd need to put it together yourself. Preassembled computers run the risk of having things like the cooler coming off during shipping and such (which is why Dell and most OEM vendors usually use proprietary heat sink assemblies/clamps, since that'd be a catastrophic failure if you turned on the system and didn't have a heat sink on the processor).

As far as building the computer goes, it's not terribly difficult if you read all the manuals. Most everything fits only one way, and as long as you follow the instructions, you should really be A-OK. You just wanna be careful with how you handle everything, that's all. The trickiest part will probably be installing the heat sink/fan and the motherboard, but after that, it's cake - everything snaps into place, basically.

Windows 7 isn't too difficult to use; It's very much like Vista, except with a few differences here and there. For the most part, the changes tend to make sense, unlike with Vista, and things are a little more coherent. Think of it as what Windows XP was to Windows 2k, except Windows 2k didn't suck.

Anyway, if that post went over your head, then the best thing I can tell you is to look around at the parts you're interested in and do some searching online for more information about them. If you had specific questions, then I could answer them here, but since none of this is really your forte, there may not be much else I can really say to make picking out parts and building a computer much easier; You need to familiarize yourself at least a little about the current offerings and how they work together. It sounds worse than it is, though. Really, it is all pretty simple if you can wrap your head around that.


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## Sneakers (Nov 29, 2009)

I see...I don't have the confidence of putting a kit together, cause if something goes wrong, I'm screwed, and I get frustrated easily when it comes to computers. I was hoping for a system alreayd built, so I don't have to worry about these things like fans and heatsinks, and other things I never heard of (Well, I heard of fans). It sounds sounds like a nightmare and a pain just to get a new system the way you want it.


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## Runefox (Nov 29, 2009)

That's why there's good money in assembly and boutique computers like Falcon Northwest et al - It really is a hassle for most people, and it's not possible to mass-produce custom-built computers. If you knew someone who was willing to do it for free/cheap, it might make it a lot more attractive unless you were willing to learn.


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## Sneakers (Nov 30, 2009)

Yeah, I'm abit afraid to put it together myself....don't know anyone who can put one together....I really don't know many people in this city. I'm semi recluse.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 30, 2009)

Sneakers said:


> Yeah, I'm abit afraid to put it together myself....don't know anyone who can put one together....I really don't know many people in this city. I'm semi recluse.



:/ Pity Belleville isn't closer to London - I could slap it together for ya easy enough.


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## Lobar (Nov 30, 2009)

@Runefox: I was looking for a basic guide to assembly, though your post was nonetheless informative, especially about motherboards.  I more or less know what all the parts I need are and what to look for in them, but would have no clue in actually throwing it all together aside from looking for bits that look like they fit into other bits.  Are the manuals that come included pretty informative in that regard, more than the "doing x y or z will invalidate your warranty blah blah" boilerplate?  Do you think I could work it out from the manual alone?


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## Runefox (Nov 30, 2009)

@Lobar: Yeah, the motherboard manual in particular should be fairly in-depth as far as installation instructions go. Actually, if you're interested in a particular motherboard, go to the manufacturer's website and download the PDF version of the manual, and see if you feel a little better about it.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 30, 2009)

Agreed with Rune - usually the manuals and additional info on the manufacturer's site are informative enough to make the setup clear.  You can also use Google and/or Youtube to look at actual picture or video-drive guides that show how it's done.

For example (and there's lots more than just this): 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1NxsHpaL_s

It's pretty easy to get things built correctly nowadays since you can really only hook up most connections one way... and there are no dip switches or jumpers to have to worry about setting up beforehand... and memory is not put into the board in individual chips.  >_<  Ah, the golden years.


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## Lobar (Nov 30, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Agreed with Rune - usually the manuals and additional info on the manufacturer's site are informative enough to make the setup clear.  You can also use Google and/or Youtube to look at actual picture or video-drive guides that show how it's done.
> 
> For example (and there's lots more than just this):
> 
> ...



That vid is pretty much what I was looking for, thanks.  I'm pretty confident that I can handle that.  I need a little more money than I have right now before I get started, but when I do I'll stop in and make a thread about my planned build for some feedback, then put it together and make a trip report.


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## ToeClaws (Nov 30, 2009)

Lobar said:


> That vid is pretty much what I was looking for, thanks.  I'm pretty confident that I can handle that.  I need a little more money than I have right now before I get started, but when I do I'll stop in and make a thread about my planned build for some feedback, then put it together and make a trip report.



Cool - sounds like a good plan to me.  The one perk of waiting to build a new system is that every 3 months or so you wait, the prices drop and/or you get more power for the money.


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## Sneakers (Nov 30, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> :/ Pity Belleville isn't closer to London - I could slap it together for ya easy enough.



Thanks for the consideration  Shame...but I think my Mental Health worker knows computers, now that I think abit about it...I was about to reply, and he came to mind. I will have to ask him, and show him Runefox's list he posted above.

Speaking of which, I should put all those pieces of equipment on my wishlist for that site.

Wish I was more computer savy...most of Runefox's techno talk about the parts just went over my head.  I was never good at remember what things did...I could hook up things like players and TVs, cause most cables are colour coded and/or labeled.

Also Runefox...from that list, how many USB ports does that give me? Right now I have 2 in the back....I kinda want to have more then two.....some in back, some in front.


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## ZentratheFox (Dec 8, 2009)

I agree with what Rune spec'd out in his post. Though, depending on budget, you could probably knock off a good chunk if need be, and still walk away with a screamer of a system.


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## Runefox (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm gonna keep my post short for now because of the speed/pageload issues I'm having here. That motherboard will give you a total of *8* USB ports on the rear and room for up to an additional *4* via the front panel (though that case only has two on the front, so you'll end up with *10* for now), so you should be set there.


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