# Writers Workshop Interest



## kitreshawn (Apr 21, 2010)

I have been kicking around an idea for a sort of writer's workshop group on FA for a couple days now and have been wondering if anyone would be interested in such a thing?

Reason I ask is that these types of things really do improve how well you write I think, but they are something that really can't be done alone.  Sure you can go through any exercises alone but real benefit comes from the comments and input others can give.


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## Mr Owl (Apr 21, 2010)

Hmmmmm... It depends. I'll think about joining if you do this. Though, I don't really write furry stories.


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## Sovhiel (Apr 21, 2010)

Do you mean group as in those user pages that represent multiple users through watches, or would you manage it some other way?


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## sunandshadow (Apr 21, 2010)

I've led online writers' workshops on a couple of topics.  But it's problematic because, there's really a limit to what you can do without assigning 'homework', and hardly anyone online is willing to do that kind of assigned work.

Personally, I'd participate in a workshop on plotting, but I'm not really interested in other topics in writing at the moment.


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## Sovhiel (Apr 21, 2010)

sunandshadow said:


> I've led online writers' workshops on a couple of topics.  But it's problematic because, there's really a limit to what you can do without assigning 'homework', and hardly anyone online is willing to do that kind of assigned work.
> 
> Personally, I'd participate in a workshop on plotting, but I'm not really interested in other topics in writing at the moment.


I assume you mean plotting as plot creation and development, not devious, insidious scheming. Although the two can be related~

Really, I agree with the OP in that workshops are the best way to get a group of writers stimulated. One of the best aspects of it is the various points of view you get; you get barraged with new ideas and inspiring personalities and backgrounds. 

I also think that workshops don't really need someone to lead it, because that tends to create an agenda and stifle the various possibilities a workshop can create. Instead, it's nice to have someone there to uplift the discussion when things falter or prod it along in a productive direction. But workshops really shine when that someone knows when to sit back and let things happen according to the collective energy and inspiration in the room.

So, in that spirit, I doubt it's a good idea to assign this kind of homework, not because I don't think people will do it but because it works against that idea of a collective, peer workshop.

And just out of curiosity, why are you only interested in workshops on plot?


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## sunandshadow (Apr 21, 2010)

Sovhiel said:


> I assume you mean plotting as plot creation and development, not devious, insidious scheming. Although the two can be related~
> 
> Really, I agree with the OP in that workshops are the best way to get a group of writers stimulated. One of the best aspects of it is the various points of view you get; you get barraged with new ideas and inspiring personalities and backgrounds.
> 
> ...


I mean plot as in "the outline of events that happen in the story and add up to make a dramatic structure satisfying to the reader". 

Plot is what I have trouble with in my own writing.  After earning a B.A. in English and about 8 years of experience workshopping everything except plot, I don't feel like I'd learn anything from a workshop focused on characters or dialogue or whatever.  I'm perfectly happy to try to help others with non-plot topics, but only if I in return get them helping me with plot.  Haven't gotten one crit on one of the synopses linked in my sig since I posted them. X_x

As far as workshops in general, I think if the workshop has a focus then it should have a leader who presents a 'lecture' or at least a collection of links of educational materials relevant to that focus.  If it doesn't have a focus it needs a moderator to say whose turn it is and smack people who are rude or don't participate, but it doesn't need a leader in the sense of a teacher.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 21, 2010)

sunandshadow said:


> I mean plot as in "the outline of events that happen in the story and add up to make a dramatic structure satisfying to the reader".
> 
> Plot is what I have trouble with in my own writing.  After earning a B.A. in English and about 8 years of experience workshopping everything except plot, I don't feel like I'd learn anything from a workshop focused on characters or dialogue or whatever.  I'm perfectly happy to try to help others with non-plot topics, but only if I in return get them helping me with plot.  Haven't gotten one crit on one of the synopses linked in my sig since I posted them. X_x
> 
> As far as workshops in general, I think if the workshop has a focus then it should have a leader who presents a 'lecture' or at least a collection of links of educational materials relevant to that focus.  If it doesn't have a focus it needs a moderator to say whose turn it is and smack people who are rude or don't participate, but it doesn't need a leader in the sense of a teacher.



Heh  

Plot is a three act play.  

The masters earn their pay off the three act play.  Whenever I have trouble, I break it down into that.   Saves me every time.  

But.. as for workshops.. I've found the writing group here (where I live) doesn't really write.  They get together and have coffee and talk about how their next big novel is going to be awesome, they're just working on ideas/plot/characterization/etc.   They present short stories that feel last minute rushed, and talk about "the craft."   They talk about their latest reads of books about writing.  They show their "moleskeins" and talk about how such and such magazine JUST had a great article on a method for plotting that is going to go into their next novel...

I'm all for a workshop here on the forums so long as it's not just a collection of professional wannabes.   We'd actually have to work.  And produce.  

One of my author friends was telling me about how to be a published and well paid author.  He said "Write a book about how easy it is to use your method and target it at potential unsold authors."


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## sunandshadow (Apr 21, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> But.. as for workshops.. I've found the writing group here (where I live) doesn't really write.  They get together and have coffee and talk about how their next big novel is going to be awesome, they're just working on ideas/plot/characterization/etc.   They present short stories that feel last minute rushed, and talk about "the craft."   They talk about their latest reads of books about writing.  They show their "moleskeins" and talk about how such and such magazine JUST had a great article on a method for plotting that is going to go into their next novel...


If that's the only writers' group near you, that's a pity.  But it's interesting how opposite my experience has been.  The first group I belonged to, everyone was required to present a piece at least every other month, and it was against the rules to present outlines or synopses.  That worked great for the group leader who had a finished first draft of a novel and wanted to polish it, and it worked okay for the poet who presented a different poem each time, but it just ignored and then kicked out anyone who was having problems with block or plotting. :/

Second group I belonged to was a college workshop course, and pretty much everyone presented the first chapter of a novel.  Each person only got to present twice, because there were 20 in the class.  The main thing I learned from that was how to critique other people's stuff, and what first chapters of novels should contain.

Third group I belonged to was cool in that it was science fiction and fantasy specific, but one of the members was a total homophobe and my WIP at that time was a gay romance. :/  Also the group was mostly short-story focused, and I'm interested in novels.

After that I decided local crit groups are a waste of time.  I won't join one again unless I have a novel manuscript I want to get polished.


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## TakeWalker (Apr 21, 2010)

Didn't you kick this idea around like... two years ago? c.c I swear I've heard it before.

Not trying to knock it, of course.

What would it entail? What would go on? What kind of format are we talking about here? Am I completely misinterpreting your usage of the word "workshop"? _The world may never know._


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## kitreshawn (Apr 21, 2010)

Heh.  To answer the question so far:

1) I doubt I there would be a furry requirement for anyone who wants to participate.
2) For the most part I was thinking about running it through the forums.
3) Things wouldn't be homework as such, but rather exercises I know of (and any new ones I can find).  It would probably work somewhat like the Thursday Prompt with a bit more emphasis on reading everyone's work and critique.  That is the point of workshops after all.


Also, for Take I don't believe I have proposed anything like this before but I have bad memory.  Considering I only really became active on FA 2 years ago, and only started interacting with other authors a bit after that, I doubt it was me.

Finally, before anyone gets too worried about the amount of work involved, I doubt any of the exercises will be too intensive.  Most will either involve a short writing blurb (1,000 words or less) or involve working with stuff you already have written.  Some won't even involve writing a story at all.

Must say I am a bit surprised by how quickly there was a response to this.


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## Sovhiel (Apr 21, 2010)

kitreshawn said:


> Must say I am a bit surprised by how quickly there was a response to this.


Workshops are always an awesome idea. It's just a matter of cooperation and execution~


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## sunandshadow (Apr 22, 2010)

If anyone wants to see the three online workshops I ran a few years ago, here are the links:

#1 What is a Novel and how to analyze an example novel
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=458512

#2 Plot
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=460347

#3 Characters
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=462366


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## TakeWalker (Apr 22, 2010)

So then it would be a series of writing exercises, on the forums or elsewhere? This is not a bad idea. :3


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## Poetigress (Apr 22, 2010)

TakeWalker said:


> Didn't you kick this idea around like... two years ago? c.c I swear I've heard it before.[/i]



That might have been me, Take, but I'm not certain. It would have been a while ago, that's for sure.


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## Atrak (Apr 22, 2010)

TakeWalker said:


> Didn't you kick this idea around like... two years ago? c.c I swear I've heard it before.
> 
> Not trying to knock it, of course.
> 
> What would it entail? What would go on? What kind of format are we talking about here? Am I completely misinterpreting your usage of the word "workshop"? _The world may never know._


 


Poetigress said:


> That might have been me, Take, but I'm not certain. It would have been a while ago, that's for sure.


 
I remember one.

I haven't been a member for that long, so it wouldn't have been that long ago. A few months, maybe.

I don't think it was Poet that mentioned it, though, but someone that was new at the time.


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## TakeWalker (Apr 22, 2010)

Well, let's not quibble over when it was last mentioned. D: I'm sorry I brought it up.


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## kitreshawn (Apr 23, 2010)

Hmmm... Alright.

I'll get something worked up.  I don't want to put it on Thursday since the Prompt is already happening then.

Right now thinking about Saturday or Sunday.  Any objections or other suggestions for a date?


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## Hauke (Apr 23, 2010)

GraemeLion said:


> But.. as for workshops.. I've found the writing group here (where I live) doesn't really write....



It might be worthwhile to limit the size of the groups.  This post in particular reminds me of the "drawing day" my boyfriend has tried to run at our house.  Some weeks everyone can make it, some weeks it's just a handful.  But there are obvious trends:

Two people there?  Tons of drawing gets done.  

Three people?  Still quite a bit.

Four people?  Some drawing but then a lot of talk about art books, references, recent movies comes up as well.

Five people?  Next to no drawing.  Instead of art day, it's more like DVD day.  Or Mario Kart day.

If there are a lot of people interested in a workshop and everyone can agree on a direction to go, great.  But it might be smart to put groups of three together as "critiquing buddies" (other more clever titles are definitely possible).  When I read the Thursday Prompts these days, I hardly ever post comments.  I don't get to the stories in a timely manner, and I despise making "Me too!" posts--and invariably, someone else has said just what I was going to say.  Other times, I feel that someone else in the large group of people participating and reading will shoulder the responsibility of speaking up to praise the good parts or to mention areas that can be improved.  

I think my job is leaking into this now, because I was just about to describe how a mechanism for rating the contributions of others in the group could be built in...it's the time of year when I'm all about grading, feedback and evaluation.  :>


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## TakeWalker (Apr 23, 2010)

The weekend sounds fine to me. Also, Hauke has good ideas.


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## kitreshawn (Apr 23, 2010)

Hauke said:


> If there are a lot of people interested in a workshop and everyone can agree on a direction to go, great.  But it might be smart to put groups of three together as "critiquing buddies" (other more clever titles are definitely possible).



There are some differences between RL groups and online ones.  For instance, people in a thread can easily be put back on topic by simply having a mod delete all off-topic posts.

That said I already planned to try and create a buddy type system, depending on how many people ended up joining in as regulars.


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## GraemeLion (Apr 23, 2010)

kitreshawn said:


> There are some differences between RL groups and online ones.  For instance, people in a thread can easily be put back on topic by simply having a mod delete all off-topic posts.
> 
> That said I already planned to try and create a buddy type system, depending on how many people ended up joining in as regulars.



Yeah, but mods deleting posts tend to cause issues of their own.  

Maybe ..  not a workgroup, but a partnership.  Everyone (who is interested) can register in one thread, we'll randomly pair them up, and then give a topic.  They each edit each other's work, and then we post the results, shuffle partners, and do it again.

That way, if we have someone drop out, we're not losing a lot of work, and we can all get to know each other and get used to the strengths and weaknesses of each.


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## Poetigress (Apr 23, 2010)

I was wondering, do either of the mods have the ability to create (or ask someone who can create) subforums? That might be a good way to keep everything workshop-related in one place.


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## kitreshawn (Apr 23, 2010)

Poetigress said:


> I was wondering, do either of the mods have the ability to create (or ask someone who can create) subforums? That might be a good way to keep everything workshop-related in one place.



That is a wonderful idea!


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## darkr3x (Apr 23, 2010)

yeah if there was a subforum people could do 'shops for whatever they wanted to work on. 

I am all for that.


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## TakeWalker (Apr 24, 2010)

Throwing my hat in for this subforum idea. It is a good one. :O


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## Altamont (Apr 24, 2010)

Sounds great! I'm in.


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## AthenaLash (Apr 29, 2010)

Oh, a workshop?

I'm interested.


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## kitreshawn (Apr 29, 2010)

Welcome.  Right now we have only done 1 and I am trying to have them on Saturdays so people have the weekend to work.


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