# Graphics cards



## CryoScales (Oct 23, 2009)

I went to Nvidia's game spec thing to find Neverwinter Nights 2. I passed on everything, except my Graphics card. Remember I am working with a quad core vista computer with like 5Gigs of ram

I raged on it over and over until this moment. What would people say is a good rounded graphics card to play modern games nowadays? My eyesight is currently eying the affordable 8800 right now. But what do people think is a good graphics card for a budget?

EDIT: Also, how can I detect whether or not my graphics card was built in?


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## Runefox (Oct 23, 2009)

The 8800 series is probably not where you want to go; Look at the 9600 or GTX 250 instead, or if you wanted to go ATI, the Radeon 4770 or 5750 are very decent.

If you right-click on My Computer and click Manage, then go to Device Manager, looking under Display Adapters will tell you the current graphics card/chipset.

I should mention that if you're using a laptop, this is not upgradeable.


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## CryoScales (Oct 23, 2009)

Runefox said:


> The 8800 series is probably not where you want to go; Look at the 9600 or GTX 250 instead, or if you wanted to go ATI, the Radeon 4770 or 5750 are very decent.
> 
> If you right-click on My Computer and click Manage, then go to Device Manager, looking under Display Adapters will tell you the current graphics card/chipset.



Hmm. Well i'll do some research

I am currently running an Nvidia GeForce 6150E nForce 430


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## Sinjo (Oct 24, 2009)

Save up and get an nvidia 9800 GTX+

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143149&Tpk=BFG%20nvidia%209800%20gtx

I should point out that you don't have a graphics card right now; you're using a built in Motherboard graphics chip.


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## ToeClaws (Oct 24, 2009)

If price is important, then there's only one really good choice, the Radeon 4870, as Runefox suggested.  It's fast - more so than most of the Nvidia cards, and especially so if you compare cards of the same dollar value, and it's a lot faster than the 8800.  If price isn't so much of an object, then the Radeon HD5870 pretty much stands alone at the top of the mountain right now.


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## Sinjo (Oct 24, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> If price is important, then there's only one really good choice, the Radeon 4870, as Runefox suggested.  It's fast - more so than most of the Nvidia cards, and especially so if you compare cards of the same dollar value, and it's a lot faster than the 8800.  If price isn't so much of an object, then the Radeon HD5870 pretty much stands alone at the top of the mountain right now.


Yup; Right below the gtx295 :>

I wouldn't listen to the fanboy here; look at the stars, read the reviews. Decide whether you want an ati or nvidia.


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## Ty Vulpine (Oct 24, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Save up and get an nvidia 9800 GTX+
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143149&Tpk=BFG%20nvidia%209800%20gtx



This. I have a 9800 and it's great :3


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## Gray Fang (Oct 24, 2009)

I upgraded my 7800 GTX too an GTX280 about half a year ago now, I'm verry happy with that so far atlest.

But anyways there is one thing I learned from upgrading computers... dont buy the cheapest.. you will never be happy with it ^^ I would stay away from the 8000 and 9000 series, due too them being outa date, I would go for a cheap GTX200 series card if I wanted something cheap but usefull.


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## Shino (Oct 24, 2009)

I threw the nVidia GTX 260 in my compy about 6 months ago, and I haven't yet encountered a game I can't run at full specs. I only paid $129 on sale at NewEgg. I'm sure it's gone down. It's a great card for a good price.

And this is totally biased and personal opinion, but avoid ATI. I've had a long history of problems with them. Maybe it's just me, but anything ATI seems to self-distruct when I get near it.


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## LotsOfNothing (Oct 24, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Yup; Right below the gtx295 :>
> 
> I wouldn't listen to the fanboy here; look at the stars, read the reviews. Decide whether you want an ati or nvidia.


 
The gtx295 is a failure like the Geforce 9800GX2.   :V


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## Sinjo (Oct 24, 2009)

LotsOfNothing said:


> The gtx295 is a failure like the Geforce 9800GX2.   :V


You can sure spew shit; but it's comforting to know you have no reasoning :>


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## LotsOfNothing (Oct 24, 2009)

Lol k, have fun with your horrible GPU scaling, while I sit here and actually use all of my graphics cards.


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## ToeClaws (Oct 24, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Yup; Right below the gtx295 :>
> 
> I wouldn't listen to the fanboy here; look at the stars, read the reviews. Decide whether you want an ati or nvidia.



First, I take offense at being called a "fanboi" - I prefer neither, just give honest opinions on best thing for best dollar, and have 20 years of PC experience and a degree behind my views.  If you don't agree, be mature about it and don't draw ill-begotten assumptions about people.

OP: The GTX 295 is faster in about 2/3 of the various benchmarks, however, it is also ungodly expensive.  If you look at performance per dollar, it's a major rip off.  The 285 is more on par with the costs of the 5780, and in that comparison, the 5780 is a clear winner.

Now personally, I use a 4870, and there's nothing that card couldn't handle.  So if you want a cheaper stepping-stone route, that's a strong choice too.


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## Sinjo (Oct 24, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> First, I take offense at being called a "fanboi" - I prefer neither, just give honest opinions on best thing for best dollar, and have 20 years of PC experience and a degree behind my views.  If you don't agree, be mature about it and don't draw ill-begotten assumptions about people.
> 
> OP: The GTX 295 is faster in about 2/3 of the various benchmarks, however, it is also ungodly expensive.  If you look at performance per dollar, it's a major rip off.  The 285 is more on par with the costs of the 5780, and in that comparison, the 5780 is a clear winner.
> 
> Now personally, I use a 4870, and there's nothing that card couldn't handle.  So if you want a cheaper stepping-stone route, that's a strong choice too.


Trust me, you're a fanboy. That little paragraph right  there seals the deal.

Why, in the hell would you tell him to get a 400$ graphics card when he's thinking about getting an 8800; at least ball park it.

I might also add, that for 100$ more the 295 is way better and more reliable. The only thing ati is better than nvidia at is AA.


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## Runefox (Oct 24, 2009)

@Sinjo: Do note that in his first post, he said:



> *If price isn't so much of an object*, then the Radeon HD5870 pretty much stands alone at the top of the mountain right now.



His first suggestion of the 4870 sits in line with the 8800's price point. I'm pretty sure after that last line, though, that you're the fanboi here. For me and for TC, it doesn't matter about the brand, and right now, the 5870 is actually the highest-performing card *per-dollar* on the market, just like the 8800GT used to be when it was released, and I coveted and sold plenty of those. Consider that the GTX 295 costs 25% more than the 5870 - It doesn't outperform it by nearly 25%, not even close; In fact, most of the benchmarks I've read put the 5870 above the 295.

It's pointless to even look at the 295 series now that the 300 series are on the horizon, anyway - Prices on the 200's will drop, and the 300's will slide into the 200's current price point to offer better performance per dollar, just like the Radeon 4800 series made way for the 5800's by pricedropping radically. If anyone's thinking about buying a 295, wait for the 300's.

But that's not the point of the thread, now, is it? I stand by my original post's suggestions, though I do recommend grabbing an nVidia card out of that list given the chipset - There are fewer chances of something going wrong due to a driver conflict than with an ATI card.


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## Sinjo (Oct 24, 2009)

Runefox said:


> @Sinjo: Do note that in his first post, he said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll state again for emphasis; the only charts that ati beat nvidia on are the AA charts. and the higher Resolutions.


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## Shino (Oct 25, 2009)

Could we please *not* let this thread devolve into flame wars? If I read the OP correctly, they're asking for people's opinions of good cards, not a brand to obsess over.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum.


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## Sinjo (Oct 25, 2009)

Shino said:


> Could we please *not* let this thread devolve into flame wars? If I read the OP correctly, they're asking for people's opinions of good cards, not a brand to obsess over.
> 
> We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum.


We weren't telling him who to obsess over; in fact the opposite of that. I was saying he should choose his own; I simply said that instead of the 8800 he should get a 9800, then Mr.fanboy came over here and suggested a four hundred dollar card. ^.^


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## ToeClaws (Oct 25, 2009)

Sinjo: Actually, if your literary skills were as good as your trolling, offensive and assumption skills, you'd see that several of us now have been saying the 4870 is a main pick for performance and value.  

The choice of a 9800 isn't a bad one - it's a fast card for the money, but on the nVidia side of the fence, I think he'd be well worth it to invest just a touch more to up the card to the GTS 250 which is a really strong performer.  In fact, it's sometimes even cheaper than the 9800s depending on the store.

So CryoScales, I guess an important question that we all should have asked in the first place was how much money are you willing to drop on the card?  The recommendations so far have all been good but all fall in along a wide range of costs from $120 to $700+.   If this card is just a stepping stone before a more expensive upgrade, then maybe even a mid-range card would suffice for now.  Can you give us a ball park figure of what you're aiming to spend?

Also, you might find this site useful in sizing up cards in terms of performance numbers (for cost, it's best to check up the cards at major on-line sellers like NewEgg or Tigerdirect): http://www.videocardbenchmark.net


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## ZentratheFox (Oct 25, 2009)

5870s in crossfire or bust.


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## Runefox (Oct 25, 2009)

Anyway, I'll say it again, though, just so it doesn't get lost in the sea of crap: *The GTX 250 is seriously the way to go for you, CryoScales*, if you're looking at the 8800's price point, and particularly if you want a faster graphics card. Your nForce chipset might be a little on the old side now, but it should handle it quite well, and it'll be a night/day improvement over your onboard 6150. I wouldn't recommend an ATI at this stage due to your chipset, though there really _shouldn't_ be any problems, there's always that off chance that something will go wrong that you don't want to have to deal with.


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## CryoScales (Oct 26, 2009)

Wow I didn't expect my question about Graphics cards. Would turn into this.

People please be mature

Anyway. Thanks to everyone for all the info. I'll do a little research and see which one is best for me.

Now if only I knew how exactly to install a graphics card...


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## Runefox (Oct 26, 2009)

Graphics cards normally come with a manual / card detailing general instructions; It's pretty foolproof as to actually physically installing the card into the computer, but you'll need to make sure that you move the monitor's cable from the onboard graphics port to the new card. You might require a DVI-VGA adapter, which comes bundled with most video cards (though more commonly nowadays is a DVI-HDMI adapter, or both). Check the box contents of the card you're looking at buying if you'll need one. VGA connectors are commonly colour-coded blue and have a 15-pin connector, while DVI connectors are commonly colour-coded white or black, and are about 40% longer with more (up to 24) pins and a separated array of (up to 4) pins with a horizontal separator to one side. here's a picture demonstrating either side of such an adaptor; Top-half is DVI, bottom half is VGA.

Installing the driver is fairly simple, as well, though I recommend not using the driver that comes on the CD; Download the latest driver from nVidia or ATi, depending on which series (GeForce or Radeon, respectively) you decide to go with. Newer drivers are typically more stable and offer better performance than drivers bundled with the cards, and while it's not important to stay on top of it with every release, check back every month or so to see if an update is available - These can solve glitches and problems with games, and sometimes provide speed boosts and extra features.

*Before you buy the card, however, please take note*: If your PC is a *"small form factor"*, or *half-width* PC, then you *will have to buy a "low profile" version of whichever card you're looking at*, or *be sure that the card you are purchasing has a low-profile face plate adapter*. Unfortunately, this will limit you to a much lower class of video card than you want. One of these is an example, and the most powerful nVidia low-profile graphics card I could find on Newegg. There do apparently exist low profile 9800's, but I've only been able to find Sparkle as the manufacturer, which isn't a particularly good brand. See here for a (rather not great) comparison of small form factor (stacked above) versus the normal form factor (below, to the right).

Which brings me to my next note: For brands, choose ASUS, BFG, EVGA, or XFX as far as nVidia goes, and ASUS, PowerColor, Sapphire (budget) or XFX for ATI. Each boast decent warranties (EVGA and XFX in particular), and are generally fairly high build quality. Zotac and Palit were once fairly competitive in the budget market, as well.


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## ToeClaws (Oct 26, 2009)

In addition to RuneFox's good advice, also be careful of a card clip at the back end of the PCI-E slot.  Often they are hard to see because they are hidden by the bulk of the heatsink and/or by other components near by.  I've seen folks tear up stuff rather badly by trying to forcefully yank the cards out not knowing that was there.  You can usually disengage it with your finger or a screwdriver.  For the DVI to VGA (d-sub) adaptor, I've noticed some cards are not being bundled with them anymore.  If that's the case, you can order one separately.  Online retailers like Tigerdirect or Newegg have good prices ($10 to $15), but be careful of retail stores.  Staples sells them for around $20, Best Buy sells them for about $40.  

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1776685&CatId=467


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## net-cat (Oct 26, 2009)

If you need a DVI/VGA adapter and it's not included, you get get them for about $3.50-$4.00

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10419&cs_id=1041903&p_id=2396&seq=1&format=2


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## ToeClaws (Oct 26, 2009)

net-cat said:


> If you need a DVI/VGA adapter and it's not included, you get get them for about $3.50-$4.00
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10419&cs_id=1041903&p_id=2396&seq=1&format=2



Wow... awesome price.  And looks like they ship to Canada too, sweet.  Heh... hard to believe Best Buy charges $41 for their own brand of the same thing.


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## net-cat (Oct 26, 2009)

They do it because they know that if you need it today, you're willing to pay the premium.

They also know that if you're buying a new entertainment center, you probably don't want to wait a week to set it up and that most people don't have the foresight to buy the cables in advance.

When I helped my parents buy a new television in May, the store we bought the TV from wanted $100 for the cables. We went to Radio Shack and bought the same cables for $50. (I know I could have done about a third of that if I had shopped online, but I was only there for ten days.)


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## Runefox (Oct 26, 2009)

Wow, $50 for cables? Yeah, I knew Radio Shack/The Source (up here) were expensive... Hey, I remember these guys. I was looking into them as a supplier for cabling back at the job I had... My teacher at college told me about them. ... Sigh. Anyway, yeah, they're a pretty good deal overall, way better than buying from a big box store.

That said, their product descriptions for some of these cables reminds me of another supplier we had. Kinda skeezy gear, but it was cheap and got the job done. Their HDMI cables weren't worth crap though - Disintegrating HDMI connectors are a pain.


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## net-cat (Oct 26, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Wow, $50 for cables? Yeah, I knew Radio Shack/The Source (up here) were expensive... Hey, I remember these guys. I was looking into them as a supplier for cabling back at the job I had... My teacher at college told me about them. ... Sigh. Anyway, yeah, they're a pretty good deal overall, way better than buying from a big box store.


Well, there were quite a few cables. The biggest cost was the VGA cable for the computer. The rest were in the $6-$7 range. (Component, RCA, etc.)

The amusing part was when the guy tried to tell me that composite cables were better than component cables. :|


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## ToeClaws (Oct 26, 2009)

net-cat said:


> The amusing part was when the guy tried to tell me that composite cables were better than component cables. :|



*laughs* Riiiiight.  Heck, surprised he didn't try to sell you on the wonders of a single coaxial connection.


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## Runefox (Oct 26, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> *laughs* Riiiiight.  Heck, surprised he didn't try to sell you on the wonders of a single coaxial connection.



Well, it's gotta be _one_ of those cables that carries audio and video at the same time! Why not the one that you screw in to tighten? :V INCREDIBLE QUALITY AND AMAZING MONAURAL SOUND!


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## The Blue Fox (Oct 27, 2009)

Well its curently a tie Between the Nvidia GTX 295 and the ATI HD 5870. but id have to go with the HD 5870. Because it's DX 11 capable. And is some what cheaper then the GTX 295.

As for installing a video card there are plenty of instructions on the internet and the card also comes with a guide.

Any outher thing you want to know just consult runefoxes pile of text posted earlier on.

Oh and one more thing when ever you ask a computer related question weather its related to hardware or software. Your going to start a war. So be ready.


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## Aquin (Oct 29, 2009)

I recently upgraded my 7600GT to an XFX Geforce 260GTX.

It improved the amount of games i can play on this rig a ton... plus it came with 3 free games, and the card cost only around $180.

Keep in mind, it sounds like you have a limited power supply, you'll want at least 750W if you want to run a card like this.

The XION 1000W power supply is pretty dang good and its only $100, it also gurantees that you have the proper connectors for the 260GTX. Just make sure your card slot is PCI-E.

If your an extreme gamer you will want to go higher, but im a casual PC gamer and the 260GTX does what i need it to.


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## Runefox (Oct 29, 2009)

Would absolutely not recommend XION. 1-year warranty, website is thrown together hap-hazardly without any warranty info, and 1000W at $100?

I just got over a total system failure thanks to a crappy power supply like that one that sounded good on paper and was produced by a much more reputable company (SPI/Fortron's value brand). Stick to the higher-end power supplies - Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling, OCZ (sort of), Corsair (Seasonic), Antec... Virtually any company that's confident enough to offer more than a lousy year's warranty. At the very least, if something happens and the power supply's to blame, they're more likely to step up to the plate to replace whatever blew.


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## Xaevo (Oct 29, 2009)

get the ati radeon HD5870


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