# Artist advice, and opinions



## foxxylink (Apr 18, 2006)

Ok guys I first want to say I am sorry if this is posted in the wrong part of the forum.
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I?ve Been drawing for a couples months now, maybe 5-6 at the most. I?m really new at drawing and I really don?t consider myself an artist even thou some people say I am. I have never taken an art class a day in my life, not even in High School or JR. high, sense I moved around a lot effecting my credits from me attending regular school, which made me have to go to continuation school with a lot of bad kiddies. What I?m really asking for is Artistic advice, opinions, tips , any thing really about drawing, so that I might one day be as good as a lot of my favorite artists.
   Some people may say. ?Draw the things you like, that?s how you get better at drawing? that is very true, but its not always that easy. Its just a little hard when you have really no clue where to start or begin, another thing people say ?is to start simple, then gradually build your skill up to try and draw harder things? I find a lot of logic in that , but still ..its not always that easy. All the art you see by me on FA is drawn on the computer using a mouse, a lot of people say I should start drawing on paper more because they say its a lot easier for sketching and what not, maybe I should.. but I find drawing on paper for me is some what wasteful in resources, and when I draw on paper it can get messy and cluttered really fast.
   I want to learn a lot about drawing but I don?t have the time or money to go to an art school which sometimes bums me out, so I figure the next best thing I could do would be to ask artist for a little of there time and logic to help me become better at drawing. Some people ask me. ? what do I think of my art? really I can?t say to much about, I thinks it ok, but I don?t think its all the grand to look at. I still see a lot of flaws in my drawings that I wish were not there, but I guess its good thing to see your flaws then not to be able to in a sense.
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Here?s a couple things I would like to ask some of you artist out there about, and maybe you could shin a little light on the subject for me. Thx
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*What?s a good program for coloring?: ^ please give me your insight one why you thinks it good to use.

*What are some things you wish you knew before starting out drawing or becoming an artist?:

* How to draw stuff you see in your head?: ^ I find this really hard to do

* How do you go about drawing or approaching something to draw, methods and strategies? ^ I would love to hear some info on this.

* Supplies you like using or wish you had used before you started drawing.

* and any things else you might want to add here.
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I want to thank who ever reply?s to this post and give you a big hug , because.. this really does mean a lot to me and do want to get better at drawing, I?m very driven about drawing and learning as much as I can with the limited time I have each day I just wish I started drawing more sooner.

F-L


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## Grave (Apr 18, 2006)

Well, IMO the best thing a beginner can do is use plenty of referance.

Like, if you want to draw someone in a certain pose, look up pictures of people on google and look for that pose, or, buy a wooden maniken and manipulate it into the pose you want and then sketch that.

Or if your going into the furry smut business, then just look for porn, and draw whatever takes your fancy. Copy the referance material very closely, and if ya do it alot, you begin to get a feel for anatomy, and then after a while you dont even need to use referance anymore!

Referance has helped me to no end and i wouldnt be where i am today without it. And no matter what anyone says using it doesnt make you any less of an artist, because really EVERYONE uses it.

The best paint program to use is of course Photoshop. Its a bit complicated but there are endless tutorials out there which show you the basics. It also makes things look really great if ya know what you are doing, and it has alot of neat filters to play around with too.

Dont buy it cos it'll be fucking expensive as hell so try to download a torrent.

I user mechanical pencils to sketch on A4 paper with, then i use Micron ink pens to..well...INK with 

Also, when looking for referance take note of how your fave artists draw, and try to emulate their styles a bit. Dont copy them as that would just be wrong, but pick up on little details they put into their pics, then you will start to add your own and in the end you wont notice your doing it.

Just keep practicing, get lots of referance, study things you see, like buildings, cars, trees etc, and study anatomy. Maybe even buy an anatomy book that shows you the bone structure of a human being, and where all the right muscles should be placed and stuff.

Take all that into consideration and remember the things people have already told ya, and if you keep practicing and studying anatomy and how other great artists draw, eventually, you'll be quite skilled yourself.

(this is coming from a guy who has also never taken an art class in his life and who has totally taught himself thus far, so what might work for me might not work for everyone but it might so give it a go!)


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## foxxylink (Apr 18, 2006)

thank you Grave *pats you on the head*

Peeps don't be shy to post some more info for me, I need as much as i can get


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## Dragoneer (Apr 18, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> thank you Grave *pats you on the head*
> 
> Peeps don't be shy to post some more info for me, I need as much as i can get


I'd also find an artist buddy, a friend or somebody you can trust to help spot out your weakpoints. Maybe your hands look off, proportions out of whack... it always helps to have a second eye for an opinion.

Criticism, even constructive, can be hard to take... but if you can utilize it, it can make the difference from being an "ok" artist to a "hold god shitdamn!" great artist.


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## Grave (Apr 18, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> thank you Grave *pats you on the head*
> 
> Peeps don't be shy to post some more info for me, I need as much as i can get



Your welcome, let us know if any of that helped you out, also do what Dragonner said, find yourself an artist buddy, someone who knows what they are talking about to take you under their wing.


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## foxxylink (Apr 18, 2006)

Yeah alot of what you guys said is helping alot, buts does the artist buddy have to be IRL? If so i'm kind of a loner and i dont have to many friends or any one i can share my art with.


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## Grave (Apr 18, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> Yeah alot of what you guys said is helping alot, buts does the artist buddy have to be IRL? If so i'm kind of a loner and i dont have to many friends or any one i can share my art with.



Doesnt have to IRL, no. An online aquiantence is good enough. Just as long as its somebody willing to help you then you should be ok. Just be wary cos there are alot of assholes in teh intarwebz.


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## foxxylink (Apr 18, 2006)

lol tell me about it, thanks again Grave and Dragoneer


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## Grave (Apr 18, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> lol tell me about it, thanks again Grave and Dragoneer



Hell id offer to help but...i dunno...you wouldnt want me as a teacher i dont think.


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## foxxylink (Apr 18, 2006)

well do you have an art page on FA or some where else Grave, i would love to see your art.


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## Grave (Apr 18, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> well do you have an art page on FA or some where else Grave, i would love to see your art.



Yeah but most of my worik is adult so you better not be a kiddie! lol

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/grave85/


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## foxxylink (Apr 18, 2006)

Interesting stuff you have there Grave


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## Grave (Apr 18, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> Interesting stuff you have there Grave



Heh, like i said you dont want me as a teacher


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## Captain Oz (Apr 19, 2006)

Foxxylink said:
			
		

> *What?s a good program for coloring?: ^ please give me your insight one why you thinks it good to use.
> 
> *What are some things you wish you knew before starting out drawing or becoming an artist?:
> 
> ...


First thing I would recommend if you don't want to start drawing on paper, get a WACOM tablet, or some other tablet device for your computer.  I'm rather impressed at your work knowing that it was done with a mouse, I think a pen tablet would really help you reach the next level.

As for coloring applications, I love Photoshop, to me it seems there is nothing you can't do in it if you take your time and learn the interface.  Since I'm in an art school and hang around digital artists, I've found that most actually don't like photoshop for anything more than compositing, its all a matter of taste.  I've also heard really good things about Open Canvas and wish I had a PC in my dorm to try it on.  Although most the things I have seen people use OC for have had the same style to them, so I'm not sure just how "open" it really is.

And as Dragoneer said, someone to critique your work!  There is nothing worse for an artist than to have someone tell you "Its perfect."

Anyways, most important:  get a tablet.  They aren't too expensive ($150 for a decent size one).  And they really help.


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## Dragoneer (Apr 19, 2006)

Oznor said:
			
		

> Anyways, most important:  get a tablet.  They aren't too expensive ($150 for a decent size one).  And they really help.


Dragoneer's Guide to Wacoms

Freshly posted.


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## foxxylink (Apr 19, 2006)

I would not mind learning to draw on paper, i just wonder what are some cons and pros from using a tablet compared to drawing on paper and using a scanner to copy your images on the computer and coloring them?


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## Jade_Cat (Apr 19, 2006)

I do a bit of both and don't find there to be much difference between digitally doing lineart and traditional, except that a) digital lineart will not give the problem of eraser marks on paper and makes it a bit easier to fix -some- mistakes, and b) traditional mediums have a lot of unique, interesting, and/or desirable traits that cannot yet exactly be reproduced on the computer.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Apr 19, 2006)

There is also the option of doing the art on paper, scanning it in and then using the pen tool in photoshop (on a seperate layer) to ink the lines in on a clean layer.  Then when you're done, you just hide the scan layer and voila!  Absolutely spotless lineart!


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## Grave (Apr 20, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> I would not mind learning to draw on paper, i just wonder what are some cons and pros from using a tablet compared to drawing on paper and using a scanner to copy your images on the computer and coloring them?



I find it easier to draw on paper with a good old fashioned pencil, i find drawing on a tablet really hard and thus i suck at it, and hence why i only use my tablet for coloring.

You may be different however. Different people like different things and the same applies to skills.

Try both, it wouldnt hurt to have a tablet anyway because they can be fun to use, even if you only end up using it like i do.

The pros to drawing on a tab are the fact that you avoid eraser marks as somebody already said, and the fact that you dont really need to ever buy paper or new pencils etc, but those tiny savings are kinda pointless when you consider how much you need to splash out for a tab.

The cons to drawing with a tab are, it can be hard and difficult to get used to and that time and energy could have been spent learning how to draw better with a pencil etc.

At the end of the day its all about experimentation and trial-and-error. Theres no clean-cut way to draw, no "how to draw" advice out there (despite how much people seem to insist on writing books on the matter) IMO there is no better teacher than time and good old fashioned effort.

If you truly want to learn how to draw, and you put enough good effort into the process, it will pay off in the end. You just need to be patient. Remember, "good things come to those who wait". 

*goes off to drink a Guinness*


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## SnowLynx (Apr 20, 2006)

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Use your eraser. Master shapes and proportions before puting much effort into coloring. Draw the structure first... know where the spine is. Study how the body repositions itself as weight shifts depending on poses. Use a mirror... mirrors are much better than those little poseable artist's dummies.


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## benanderson (Apr 21, 2006)

What's a good program for coloring?: ^ please give me your insight one why you thinks it good to use.
-Paint.NET (that is the name of the programme, not the web site address)... It has alot of the features of the expensive drawing tools. You say you're a little short on cash, it's free-ware and reglary updated. V2.61 has just been released.

*What are some things you wish you knew before starting out drawing or becoming an artist?:
-The basics of anatomy, I too have never had a lesson in my life.

* How to draw stuff you see in your head?: ^ I find this really hard to do.
-Sketchy, Sketchy, Sketchy!
Sketching very rough drawings that make absolutely no sense work very well! Then ink over the lines your happy with... The tip here is to never use the rubber tool... Constantly rubbing out can make people easily frustrated and abandon the picture.

* How do you go about drawing or approaching something to draw, methods and strategies? ^ I would love to hear some info on this.
-Start with the part of the body/object you think is the easiest then build it up from there. As with any drawing, start simple.

* Supplies you like using or wish you had used before you started drawing.
-I've always wanted to use prisma colour markers, but they are expensive.
For black outlines the best I can reconmend is the "Stabilo sensor 0.3mm fineliner"
Stabilo is a very good german make. Then Pens are way cheaper than any high quality markers I've seen.
(?1.09 for one pen.)

* and any things else you might want to add here.
-Computer isn't always the answer, it is much easyer to draw a good picture on paper than it is on a graphics tablet/mouse, paper is deffinately the best option for lines. Computer for colour only I say.
And LOOK closely at other peoples art... ALOT! See how they have sketched the torso, or the ears, head etc. And try and use the same techniques for your own work slowy building up your own. Thats how I learned proper anatomy, it took a year or two, but still, art cannot be rushed!

I hope this helps out a little ^.=.^

P.S.
My spelling and grammer is horrible!


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## Arshes Nei (May 4, 2006)

There are some good anatomy books to follow as well, just to understand how to construct things. George Bridgeman's constructive anatomy is helpful as well as Burne Hogarth's dynamic Figure drawing. 

Much of what you'll learn is from trials and tribulations. Also learn not so much to focus on a certain look for your drawings until much later, developing a style takes years, and many artists fall in the trap of trying to make things look good over interpreting and presenting your artwork. Don't try focusing on someone's style either although most of us emulate, the first thing is to start small or rather basic.


Start with stick figures. Drawing the same same things will help you improve, but not necessarily help you on a more focused scale.

Example, if you keep drawing portrait/heads, you'll get better, but if you keep focusing on that, you'll find you haven't practiced on poses. 

Once you start getting those founding building blocks down you'll start seeing overall improvements and more ways to experiment.

When constructing figures it has been suggested what areas are most important to least.

Torso - torso helps define how the figure will move and where the limbs and head will be placed.

Legs - common mistake of artists is that they draw from the hips up, and when it comes to solidly placing your figure on the ground or in action, they often get lost.

Arms - Arms help convey the action, and only follow after legs since a foundation needs to be built.

Head- Once your figure is in the pose you like, the head will be the last item to place on your figure.

I started trying this methodology because often times I'd start with the head, then ...I couldn't figure out what the hell pose to use, and it often caused static figures. Now that I'm trying the Torso first I'm actually finding myself more open in what poses to do.

Hands are often hard and I know that learning to draw them in wedge shapes help.

Learning to sketch lightly is also a must. You can train yourself by doing this by taking the softest lead and trying to make your drawings as light as possible with it. Once you got the hang of it, you can go to a regular Hard Black or so desired a blue lead. If you don't think that works you can always try a 2h lead first and using the black leads to tighten your drawings.

Erasers are also good to know, I often found vinyl erasers more versatile than rubber ones. You can also use a gum eraser, but I've also heard that blue-tak is very helpful in learning eraser techniques

Here is a tutorial about them - this is rather advanced but he shows how he can create fine fur. http://www.sibleyfineart.com/index.htm?tutorial--erasing-pencil-blu-tack.htm

I'm happy with my own supplies I suppose mainly because I've done things with 99 cent markers and copying machines. XD

Ex: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/1125149/ I found some dried up markers and played around and got that result.

So don't depend on the cost of things all the time, and just play around with things to experiment and feel most comfortable to you.

I hope that helps?


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## Thaily (May 6, 2006)

foxxylink said:
			
		

> *What?s a good program for coloring?: ^ please give me your insight one why you thinks it good to use.



Photoshop, I use it for drawing too. It's easy to sketch in Photoshop because you can flip over, distort and re-size bits of the drawing until you're comfortable with the proportions. You can use layers so you can make  a linework layer and put that over the colouring so the lines will be nice and crisp without white spots and the lines won't get damages in the process of colouring. You can adjust the colours after finishing if you want a different intensity or hue. 
It's expensive, but probably one of the best programs out there if you can get it.



			
				foxxylink said:
			
		

> *What are some things you wish you knew before starting out drawing or becoming an artist?:



That it would consume my very soul *_*



			
				foxxylink said:
			
		

> * How to draw stuff you see in your head?: ^ I find this really hard to do



Stickmen. Start with the line of the spine then build it up, add sausages for the limbs, circles for the joints. Then when all the characters are done, a rough background. That way the idea and composition is on paper so I can't forget it.
That is, as long as I don't lose the sketch.



			
				foxxylink said:
			
		

> * How do you go about drawing or approaching something to draw, methods and strategies? ^ I would love to hear some info on this.



Same as above.
If it's a whole new subject I tend to do some research also; Google for images, go to the library, go and see the subject "in action" if possible, lions at the zoo for example. If I can I take my own photos and make life sketches for reference. Makes lots of little sketches to get the hang of drawing your subject.

Quick note on reference: If you're using someone else's photo or drawing for reference please cite the reference when you upload it. It'll prevent a lot of art-theft drama if someone recognizes what you used for reference. Additionally you could get permission from the copyright holder (photographer or artist) if you want to follow the reference really closely, especially in regards to art.



			
				foxxylink said:
			
		

> * Supplies you like using or wish you had used before you started drawing.



- A hard pencil, they smudge less. You can also buy a technical pencil and buy hard lead fillings, that way you never have to sharpen it. Lines drawn with a technical pencil may lack personality, but unless you're doing an all-pencil piece it doesn't matter much.
- A pen-eraser, like technical pencils it's a pen only with an eraser filling. Really handy for erasing small bits. Otherwise, a regular soft eraser. Even "expensive" brand erasers are cheap so no need to skimp on those. Buy a couple, if you're like me you'll lose them all over the place.
- A Wacom tablet, they can be expensive unless you get lucky and find one that's on offer or one that's been used. I use them for sketching, as I mentioned before, but I do transfer most of my digital sketches to paper because I have better control with a pen(cil).
- Which brings me to the lightbox which can also be an expensive item, or you can build one yourself. I use it to tranfer sketches onto clean paper, that way I can transfer the digital sketch onto cheap paper, make the final version, then transfer the final version onto good paper to ink/colour and if I ruin the inking/colouring I can start over with the sketch intact.
- Get 2 sketchbooks, a big one and a small one. The big one is for leisurely drawing. You can carry the small one in the pocket of your jacket in case you're struck by inspiration on a moment when you can't draw in your big sketchbook. I can garantuee you you'll lose sketches on scraps of paper. The big sketchbook should have nice heavy, smooth paper that's thick enough so a little ink won't seep through and stain the other pages.



			
				foxxylink said:
			
		

> * and any things else you might want to add here.



Don't just draw things you like, experiment. Draw things that are out of your comfort zone, you'll learn a lot. People, trees, inanimate objects, perspective, lighting. Experiment with media, don't just colour digitally but pick up different kinds of cheap pencils, oils, gouache, watercolour, markers. You may be good with a computer, but you might be great with something you haven't tried yet.

Other than that, practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute.
I suggest doodling at least one A4 full every day. You can do it in the bus, during boring math classes P) or while on the phone. Use a ballpoint or another type of pen, don't erase, just doodle.


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## Arshes Nei (May 6, 2006)

Thaily said:
			
		

> Quick note on reference: If you're using someone else's photo or drawing for reference please cite the reference when you upload it. It'll prevent a lot of art-theft drama if someone recognizes what you used for reference. Additionally you could get permission from the copyright holder (photographer or artist) if you want to follow the reference really closely, especially in regards to art.



Be a little more clear with that please. Stock photography DOES NOT have to have permission for reference in a lot of cases. The right answer is, if you're using reference, FIND OUT what conditions allow you to use or not use the reference. 

If an idiot starts up art theft drama for stock reference that is free to use, ...as stated, they are an idiot. There is no reason to cite references for stock photography that is free for use and in other cases there is no reference to cite.

Illustrations may fall under the same catagory, but it depends on the artist.


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## Grave (May 6, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Thaily said:
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> ...



If one is only using the pose as referance then i see no reason why credit needs to be given since you cannot copyright a pose.


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## Arshes Nei (May 6, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> If one is only suing the pose as referance then i see no reason why credit needs to be given since you cannot copyright a pose.



That is correct, I guess people are afraid of "Styled pose theft" where someone is copying line for line an illustration, but a photo really is irrelevant to me. People do celebrity portraits using reference, all the time, no one is saying "ZOMG that's copyrighted to FASHIONTREND WHORE"

The human body can only pose too many times, but yeah.


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## dave hyena (May 7, 2006)

Thaily said:
			
		

> It's easy to sketch in Photoshop because you can flip over, distort and re-size bits of the drawing until you're comfortable with the proportions.



Should one wish the wherewithal to draw effectively it is desirable that one learn to draw it right first time, rather than just blunder into something that looks acceptable by accident.

What I tend to do is use a black coloured pencil or just sketch things straight out in pen, so that I cannot erase anything.

This makes me consider what I'm drawing very carefullly indeed, and if it is wrong, why, I just draw the image again.

I think one should learn to draw with real media, not digital, for real media has no undo button and no fancy tricks to allow you to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Even a rubber leaves marks of its passage.


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## cesarin (May 8, 2006)

*RE:*



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Oznor said:
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its gone


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