# Where are the new admins?



## sandfox (Mar 4, 2012)

When Sciggles was made an Admin trpdwarf said



			
				Trpdwarf said:
			
		

> there are other people who can help and are qualified. We are bringing some people who fit that bill in. Sciggles isn't the only addition



http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...d-not-be-one?p=2821725&viewfull=1#post2821725

Corto said



			
				Corto said:
			
		

> THE SITE NEEDS MORE ADMINS, SO A BUNCH ARE GETTING SELECTED.



http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...d-not-be-one?p=2823216&viewfull=1#post2823216

But instead of gaining new admins FA has been losing them

FA has lost 3 staff: admins Q0ph and Xipoid have gone and Pinkuh quit as an IRC mod

After appointing Sciggles, FA now has less admins than before. *There are more staff for the furaffinity forums than on furaffinity.net!*

What is going on?


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## Dragoneer (Mar 4, 2012)

Talking to a few people right now, and have three people who have accepted. They will be coming on in roughly two weeks time.


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## Teal (Mar 4, 2012)

How does one become a mod?


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## Mali-Kyte (Mar 4, 2012)

*How do you apply to be a mod or admin? I would like to know this.*


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## NerdyMunk (Mar 4, 2012)

Oo. Hey! Pick me! Me! Me. Me, as a mod? *gross face.jpg*
I'm sure someone stated that they look at IRC and FAF for possible candidates, and I'm guessing they send a note after that.


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## sandfox (Mar 4, 2012)

Dragoneer said:


> Talking to a few people right now, and have three people who have accepted. They will be coming on in roughly two weeks time.



But Pinkuh said just 2 days ago:



Pinkuh said:


> they have not brought on more staff to handle  tickets... they have "Talked" about it, but in the end Dragoneer brought  on sciggles, and no one else. After the whole Furocity fuckup I don't  blame any of the forum staff for being leery of becoming main site  staff.



http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/115671-FA-Ticket-return-time?p=2864187&viewfull=1#post2864187

So which one of you is right?


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## Trpdwarf (Mar 4, 2012)

sandfox said:


> But Pinkuh said just 2 days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would technically be correct. We have not "As of yet" brought on more staff. Does that mean we are not "bringing on more staff"? No it does not. I know we have a few people in mind right now, we are talking to them and they will brought on when we are ready for them to be. Bringing people on staff isn't always as simple as "Want to be admin" "Yeah!" and then "POOF" you have an admin. There are time zones to take into consideration, training, and protocols to go through to ensure people are ready and everything is in place that needs to be.

EDIT: And yeah that other thing, that Neer mentioned.



Mali-Kyte said:


> *How do you apply to be a mod or admin? I would like to know this.*



Well to be a mod on FAF you first have to be an active member of the community. If you meet certain guide-lines it primes you to be in good condition for when mod applications pop up. Once mods are chosen they start off looking over one small area(or a few). How they handle that determines if they go up through rank. Super Moderators on FAF are often a prime target for Admin because we've known them, watch how they moderate and can have a fair handle of how they will handle being an Admin.

I don't know so much about how you become an IRC mod (sorry not my area) but I do know that if you are a good IRC mod on FA's IRC that too can translate into being offered the admin position.

EDIT: There is a third way where sometimes we get good people outside of both areas but that's kind of iffy. The problem with bringing in too many from the outside is they are not used to being run through the mud over enforcing the rules. Or they come from completely different systems of moderation and it can conflict too strongly to have to work with a different system. Also there is that trust issue.


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## Dragoneer (Mar 4, 2012)

sandfox said:


> But Pinkuh said just 2 days ago:
> 
> 
> http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/115671-FA-Ticket-return-time?p=2864187&viewfull=1#post2864187
> ...


I already have three new admins who have accepted positions, and we have discussed bringing people off and on in admin chat for some time now. They will be brought on once I have a chance to revise some documents, and I've had a chance to talk to a few other candidates I'm looking into.


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## jayhusky (Mar 4, 2012)

Trpdwarf said:


> Well to be a mod on FAF you first have to be an active member of the community. If you meet certain guide-lines it primes you to be in good condition for when mod applications pop up. Once mods are chosen they start off looking over one small area(or a few). How they handle that determines if they go up through rank. Super Moderators on FAF are often a prime target for Admin because we've known them, watch how they moderate and can have a fair handle of how they will handle being an Admin.



Out of interest, what classes as being an "active member of the community"? Also what other pre-requisites are required for such staff positions?


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## Trpdwarf (Mar 4, 2012)

jayhusky said:


> Out of interest, what classes as being an "active member of the community"? Also what other pre-requisites are required for such staff positions?



On the forum being active means you participate within the community. That of course means you that participate in discussion a regular enough basis. There is also a certain amount of time that you must have been here on the site. What that amount of time is slips my mind but it's stated when ever the mod apps go live.


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## M. LeRenard (Mar 4, 2012)

jayhusky said:


> Out of interest, what classes as being an "active member of the community"? Also what other pre-requisites are required for such staff positions?


Some (not all) of the decision-making process hinges around what we know about users personally, and that only comes from us interacting with you on the forums.  For example, if someone who applies has a ton of coding experience, has modded other forums before, has expertise in one of the areas that could use a bit more moderation (the market forums, for example), is a teacher in real life (and hence knows about discipline) and a bunch of other great stuff that we could use, but they constantly behave like a total arrogant asshat when making posts on the forums (enough so that all of us know it), we'll weigh that against all the other stuff, and someone else who maybe isn't quite as qualified but also is much easier to get along with might get chosen over the former.  It's a matter of wanting people who can work with the current team (which is very tight) and who have something useful they can bring to bear when modding.
That's for the forums.  I'm not sure what Dragoneer's looking for in terms of quick replacement admins, but I assume it's about the same.


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## jayhusky (Mar 4, 2012)

Trpdwarf said:


> On the forum being active means you participate within the community. That of course means you that participate in discussion a regular enough basis. There is also a certain amount of time that you must have been here on the site. What that amount of time is slips my mind but it's stated when ever the mod apps go live.



Ah well that all sounds reasonable enough. I've been here since '07 so shouldn't be too hard to pass that time barrier. Thanks for the info Trpdwarf.



M. Le Renard said:


> Some (not all) of the decision-making process hinges around what we know about users personally, and that only comes from us interacting with you on the forums.  For example, if someone who applies has a ton of coding experience, has modded other forums before, has expertise in one of the areas that could use a bit more moderation (the market forums, for example), is a teacher in real life (and hence knows about discipline) and a bunch of other great stuff that we could use, but they constantly behave like a total arrogant asshat when making posts on the forums (enough so that all of us know it), we'll weigh that against all the other stuff, and someone else who maybe isn't quite as qualified but also is much easier to get along with might get chosen over the former.  It's a matter of wanting people who can work with the current team (which is very tight) and who have something useful they can bring to bear when modding.
> That's for the forums.  I'm not sure what Dragoneer's looking for in terms of quick replacement admins, but I assume it's about the same.




I can understand that, in effect your saying that you may pick someone who isn't as qualified because they're easier to get along with but that they show willingness to learn the appropriate "skills" to be appropriate for the position.


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## Fay V (Mar 4, 2012)

It's easier to "train" someone with a good attitude. And sometimes the most qualified are not the best fit because they behave based on other site mod tactics which doesn't always work


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## sandfox (Mar 4, 2012)

Dragoneer said:


> I already have three new admins who have accepted positions, and we have discussed bringing people off and on in admin chat for some time now. They will be brought on once I have a chance to revise some documents, and I've had a chance to talk to a few other candidates I'm looking into.



So as Pinkuh said you've "Talked" about it.... first you said that we're going to have to wait 2 weeks for more admins, now you're saying it will be as soon as you've revised some documents and talked to some other people, and that could take an indefinite amount of time judging by how long it takes things to get done on FA. Why is it taking "some time" to bring other people on when sciggles was made admin so quickly?

Why don't you let Daemonshyai handle this? Or Is this all code for "we may possibly bring some more admins on at some point in the future when someone or something kicks our asses into gear"?  

I guess we're more likely to get new admins than folders or a new UI 



Trpdwarf said:


> We have not "As of yet" brought on more staff. Does that mean we are not "bringing on more staff"? No it does not



Saying that because someone can't prove something _won't_ happen it's all allright doesn't seem like a good argument to me.

I can't _prove_ fa won't get folders for galleries within the next week but it still ain't gonna happen. 

BTW can any FA staff explain why the forums need more staff than the FA mainsite?


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## Dragoneer (Mar 4, 2012)

jayhusky said:


> Ah well that all sounds reasonable enough. I've been here since '07 so shouldn't be too hard to pass that time barrier. Thanks for the info Trpdwarf.


We generally want to try to pull from forum mods if we can because we've been able to interact with them first hand, and seen how they work, think, whether they're going to go out on a limb or not. But not all forum mods want to progress to FA admin.

Generally, there needs to be some sort of established history. The forums are one aspect we look at.


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## Dragoneer (Mar 4, 2012)

sandfox said:


> So as Pinkuh said you've "Talked" about it.... first you said that we're going to have to wait 2 weeks for more admins, now you're saying it will be as soon as you've revised some documents and talked to some other people, and that could take an indefinite amount of time judging by how long it takes things to get done on FA. Why is it taking "some time" to bring other people on when sciggles was made admin so quickly?
> 
> Why don't you let Daemonshyai handle this? Or Is this all code for "we may possibly bring some more admins on at some point in the future when someone or something kicks our asses into gear"?
> 
> I guess we're more likely to get new admins than folders or a new UI


Most of the documents are already re-written, and will go to review for site staff tomorrow. Some others will go up later this week/early next week depending on my schedule. As for Sciggles, she was brought on because I can trust her. I knew she'd do the work, and we can interface with one another to get progress made. She WANTS this site to be better, and is working towards that. In the past 90 days, she's done almost 1,000 tickets (more than any other admin) and has put forth an effort to help coordinate and bring better clarity to rules and polices (given she really doesn't agree with a lot of them).

I want to clarify communication on the back end of FA, fix a few loopholes and improve our policies before bringing new people on. There's no point in bringing new people on, training them, when some of the policies will be changing a few days later.

We need new admins on the site. We need more people on Trouble Tickets. And that's one of my focuses right now.


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## LizardKing (Mar 4, 2012)

Dragoneer said:


> In the past 90 days, she's done almost 1,000 tickets



That's pretty impressive! Especially for someone who started about 50 days ago. Working through them so fast they actually ended up travelling through time.


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## Corto (Mar 4, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> How does one become a mod?


You must first become a member of "Furaffinity Gold". In order to pay for the membership, PM me for my FA's paypal details.


LizardKing said:


> That's pretty impressive! Especially for someone who started about 50 days ago. Working through them so fast they actually ended up travelling through time.


Time turners are part of the basic FA staff loadout.


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## Fay V (Mar 5, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> That's pretty impressive! Especially for someone who started about 50 days ago. Working through them so fast they actually ended up travelling through time.


the ticket tracker works based on 90 day slots. So  it's still technically true, in the last 90 days 1000 tickets were answered by sciggles, or whatever.


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## Accountability (Mar 5, 2012)

If Sciggles has processed 1000 tickets in 50 days, she has processed 20 a day on average, which, going off the numbers here, means she's processing just about half of the tickets submitted on average in a given day.

I just think it's kind of sad that with a staff of 20, one person doing half the tickets submitted each day is considered a good thing.


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## CannonFodder (Mar 5, 2012)

Accountability said:


> If Sciggles has processed 1000 tickets in 50 days, she has processed 20 a day on average, which, going off the numbers here, means she's processing just about half of the tickets submitted on average in a given day.
> 
> I just think it's kind of sad that with a staff of 20, one person doing half the tickets submitted each day is considered a good thing.


Well now we know the problem.  They need twice as many admins as they currently have.


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## LizardKing (Mar 5, 2012)

Fay V said:


> the ticket tracker works based on 90 day slots. So  it's still technically true, in the last 90 days 1000 tickets were answered by sciggles, or whatever.



Ah, hahaha. A sneaky language trick. That makes more sense now


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## sandfox (Mar 5, 2012)

Dragoneer said:


> We need new admins on the site. We need more people on Trouble Tickets. And that's one of my focuses right now.



Why isn't Daemonshyai involved in any of this? Why isn't any of this *his focus*? Two people can do twice as much work and he is the coowner of the site and an admin on the forums and main site so you should be interfacing with him for solution generation often to get progress made

if Sciggles is doing so many trouble tickets it sounds like you've got a real problem with admins who are not doing anything and you need to kick them out
If they're not doing anything it won't make any difference to the trouble tickets being answered



			
				FavY said:
			
		

> it's still technically true



Seems to be a lot of "technically true" statements by FA staff recently
I'd rather have things that were just "true" though


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## Lillium (Mar 5, 2012)

Dragoneer, my offer still stands to become and admin and do trouble tickets for FA. (I don't mind learning new policies, either - since I already have a pretty decent understanding of the current policies.) I noted you a month ago and it appears the note went unread, though I'm not surprised as I'm sure you get a ton of notes every day.


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## Corto (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm gonna play devil's advocate because I honestly have no idea how the whole "owner" thing works, but Daemonshyai could very well be involved, just he doesn't post about it. I mean, having both site owners jump into the forums to say the exact same thing is redundant. Or hell, he could very well be focusing on some other part of the site. "Two bosses" doesn't mean "both bosses work in the same things at the same time", and selecting new admins is hardly the only part of running a site such as FA. 
But of course, I'm just speculating. Seems like common sense though.


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## jayhusky (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm kind of in the same boat as Lillium,  I'm happy to help with the site, be it with Trouble Tickets or something else. I have a understanding of the policies on the site and again like Lillium am willing to learn them to get a more in depth understanding. 
FYI Lillium, if you look in your outbox on the mainsite and the note title is a yellowish/gold then yes the note was unread.


I still maintain that a more integrated and structured staff team would benefit the site greatly as there would be a definitive list of who is who and who is doing what. 
I only say this because in all fairness the staff page on the mainsite says "Administration and Support Staff", well everyone listed under that heading (with the exceptions of Dragoneer and Daemonshyai) are listed as administrator, it just feels overall a little vague as you could have admins for different departments (Music, Animations and so on), if they already exist as positions, then can't they be named on the staff page?

Not having a gripe about it but just pointing something out from a users perspective.


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## Corto (Mar 5, 2012)

We tried departments. It... didn't quite work out because of a few misunderstandings. The current system basically allows each admin to play his strenghts without hampering his ability to check other TTs should they choose to/have little to do in their respective post. I don't know if departments are planned on being implemented again, but meanwhile the current system works pretty well (think of it as behind the curtains, non restrictive departments).
EDIT: I keep forgetting to add a little disclaimer. "Corto is like the worst mod and only speaks his personal opinion/view on the current system. He does in no way voice the official policy/opinion of FA or it's staff".


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## Armaetus (Mar 5, 2012)

I won't accept new mods or admins that 1) Have thin skin and 2) Get butthurt/offended/upset easily.


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## LizardKing (Mar 5, 2012)

Glaice said:


> I won't accept...



What do you mean, "won't accept" them? Do you mean you _wouldn't_ accept them, were it up to you?


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## Pinkuh (Mar 5, 2012)

A good amount of folks we had to pull from for potential admins, if I am not mistaken, were disenchanted when they realized due to the whole Furocity thing, that they wouldn't be anonymous when they handled tickets, or when they are listed as staff on the site. Thus their personal info (mind you it was all public) could be posted around the net for all to see. 

So far I have seen a couple of the Admin's that have Alt accounts answering tickets, but I still think that's not good enough. I still think there needs to be a way to contact just a help desk and get an answer from any one of the admins, and the way to track it would all be done on the back end where users couldn't see it. A lot of the Animosity towards specific admins could be avoided if everyone viewed whoever was answering with the same blank slate. 

it would HAVE to track who it actually was on the back end though to prevent abuses. (And yes I realize that it wouldn't prevent all abuses... but neither does keeping admin's names on things.)

As well I still think their needs to be a group of accounts that are made where specific questions can go so Users don't actually PM Mods and admins to ask questions, but a general group of accounts.


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## Armaetus (Mar 5, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> What do you mean, "won't accept" them? Do you mean you _wouldn't_ accept them, were it up to you?



As a legitimate staff member/mod that is. If there's one who's a big crybaby, whiny shmuck with thin skin I wouldn't recognize them as one even with their special colored username on the forum.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 5, 2012)

Pinkuh said:


> A good amount of folks we had to pull from for potential admins, if I am not mistaken, were disenchanted when they realized due to the whole Furocity thing, that they wouldn't be anonymous when they handled tickets, or when they are listed as staff on the site. Thus their personal info (mind you it was all public) could be posted around the net for all to see.
> 
> So far I have seen a couple of the Admin's that have Alt accounts answering tickets, but I still think that's not good enough. I still think there needs to be a way to contact just a help desk and get an answer from any one of the admins, and the way to track it would all be done on the back end where users couldn't see it. A lot of the Animosity towards specific admins could be avoided if everyone viewed whoever was answering with the same blank slate.
> 
> ...



True, some folks dislike some folks on FA and seeing who is doing the trouble ticket tends to make things worst in a way...though I will say some folks WILL know who is answering the ticket by how they are interacting with them(like that ONE admin, some folks legit work in SL being taken down even if its custom work and did follow the rules)

Though a group account to recieve questions may not be good...after all eventually furs will use it to try and skip the trouble ticket process. I would have to guess even after Trp posted on their FA that they don't take trouble ticket problems via PMs, still do get PMs of Trouble ticket issues (cause furries can't read)


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## LizardKing (Mar 5, 2012)

Glaice said:


> As a legitimate staff member/mod that is. If there's one who's a big crybaby, whiny shmuck with thin skin I wouldn't recognize them as one even with their special colored username on the forum.



Gosh, that sounds like a terrible fate, having you not recognise them as an admin. I'm sure the staff shall bear this in mind when deliberations next commence.


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## Dragoneer (Mar 5, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> That's pretty impressive! Especially for someone who started about 50 days ago. Working through them so fast they actually ended up travelling through time.


Heh, good catch. I have a ticket tracker that shows me how many tickets admins have done in the past 14 and past 90 days. I was looking at the 90 days when I got that ticket info.


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## Mali-Kyte (Mar 5, 2012)

> Well to be a mod on FAF you first have to be an active member of the community. If you meet certain guide-lines it primes you to be in good condition for when mod applications pop up. Once mods are chosen they start off looking over one small area(or a few). How they handle that determines if they go up through rank. Super Moderators on FAF are often a prime target for Admin because we've known them, watch how they moderate and can have a fair handle of how they will handle being an Admin.
> 
> I don't know so much about how you become an IRC mod (sorry not my area) but I do know that if you are a good IRC mod on FA's IRC that too can translate into being offered the admin position.
> 
> EDIT: There is a third way where sometimes we get good people outside of both areas but that's kind of iffy. The problem with bringing in too many from the outside is they are not used to being run through the mud over enforcing the rules. Or they come from completely different systems of moderation and it can conflict too strongly to have to work with a different system. Also there is that trust issue.



Well then maybe I should continue to use my Melaniecaffrey account. I made this Mali-Kyte account because I decided I didn't want the same name for the forums as I do FA. Thanks for the info though, I would like to be a mod at least since I have alot of free time on my days off from work.


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## Shad (Mar 5, 2012)

Trpdwarf said:


> There is also a certain amount of time that you  must have been here on the site. What that amount of time is slips my  mind but it's stated when ever the mod apps go live.


Unless they changed it recently it's a 3 month requirement.


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## Pinkuh (Mar 5, 2012)

Crysix Fousen said:


> True, some folks dislike some folks on FA and seeing who is doing the trouble ticket tends to make things worst in a way...though I will say some folks WILL know who is answering the ticket by how they are interacting with them(like that ONE admin, some folks legit work in SL being taken down even if its custom work and did follow the rules)
> 
> Though a group account to recieve questions may not be good...after all eventually furs will use it to try and skip the trouble ticket process. I would have to guess even after Trp posted on their FA that they don't take trouble ticket problems via PMs, still do get PMs of Trouble ticket issues (cause furries can't read)



They already try to skip the trouble ticket process. Admins just try and direct them to it but then they get the whole "IT TAKES FOREVER TO GET VIEWED" Which it does... and I don't blame them. Then the Admin goes "OH ALRIGHT" solves the issue for them... then the ticket sits in the queue and another admin happens upon it... makes a diffrent ruling... you can see where I am going with this....


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## Dragoneer (Mar 5, 2012)

Pinkuh said:


> They already try to skip the trouble ticket process. Admins just try and direct them to it but then they get the whole "IT TAKES FOREVER TO GET VIEWED" Which it does... and I don't blame them. Then the Admin goes "OH ALRIGHT" solves the issue for them... then the ticket sits in the queue and another admin happens upon it... makes a diffrent ruling... you can see where I am going with this....


You haven't been an admin for a long time. Please stop discussing admin issues. The tickets are being answered far more reliably now than ever.

That said, I am working with the admins to help ensure better accuracy of judgements. This is the reason for the delay in bringing new staff on, along with some policy updates.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 5, 2012)

This thread is very much shampoo and conditioner.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 5, 2012)

Dragoneer said:


> You haven't been an admin for a long time. Please stop discussing admin issues. The tickets are being answered far more reliably now than ever.


but its the truth neer, this happen before, and its still gonna happen, and you'll still forever have admins crossing over each other


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## Dragoneer (Mar 5, 2012)

Crysix Fousen said:


> but its the truth neer, this happen before, and its still gonna happen, and you'll still forever have admins crossing over each other


It is the truth, yes, and that's something I've been trying to resolve. Consistency is a problem, and is one issue I desperately want to fix. That said, divulging things like "admins have private alt accounts" is not helpful.


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## Pinkuh (Mar 5, 2012)

I may not have been admin for a long time, but I have sure as heck been in the thick of everything up till last week and have helped every admin that is currently on the team with understanding how the rules and system works. I have helped every single person that has crossed that threshold and I will happily still do so. You can feel free to attempt to invalidate my opinions by attempting to toss around the idea that "You wern't actively working" when all of the current admins know otherwise.


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## Arshes Nei (Mar 5, 2012)

Maybe I should elaborate. This thread is very wash cycle.

It's repeating itself, and as a person who has been burned out quite a few times from the site - I can only feel as motivated as the others who run it. That may sound disparaging, but the fact of the matter is: We can argue and defend it, or actually work on making it better. We can "say" we're doing it and let things languish leaving others to feel like...hey you know why the fuck should I even bother pushing myself, shit gets left on the wayside. Still at least in the end I know the blame lies on me if I do not keep up my schedule for the forums. 

We can continue threads like these. Or we can actually solidify plans. We can continue rehashing shit that's just utterly tiring.

So you want to keep arguing and bickering be my guest. :/


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## Dragoneer (Mar 5, 2012)

Fair enough. Not trying to argue/bicker. The thread was answered. Closing it for now.


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## Corto (Mar 5, 2012)

I know the thread was closed, but this caught my attention


Mali-Kyte said:


> Well then maybe I should continue to use my Melaniecaffrey account. I made this Mali-Kyte account because I decided I didn't want the same name for the forums as I do FA. Thanks for the info though, I would like to be a mod at least since I have alot of free time on my days off from work.


AFAIK, having the same nickname on both FA and FAF is not a requirement on either side to access staff. If you want to change it for clarity's sake, awesome, but it's not really necessary. Unless I misinterpreted what you meant.


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