# I hate PCs. Intensely.



## Scruffy113 (Aug 13, 2009)

Two blue-screens in twenty minutes. (Physical memory dump, then it automatically restarted itself, which took about 15 minutes. Then another physical memory dump.)

Anyone want to try to convince me into _not_ mauling this computer?


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## Rel (Aug 13, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> Two blue-screens in twenty minutes. (Physical memory dump, then it automatically restarted itself, which took about 15 minutes. Then another physical memory dump.)
> 
> Anyone want to try to convince me into _not_ mauling this computer?


Either

- reinstall the OS (files & settings go into a folder called 'windows.old')

- take back the computer (if its new)

- Find a way to fix it, which could be reinstalling the OS, or it could be a Hardware problem (i.e RAM) (id help you more, but im busy today and im sure someone else will help you fix it)

- Save up your money (for months) to buy a $1400 mac, only to find out that you can get a better PC for half of the cost.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 13, 2009)

Install Linux, Ubuntu is good to start. But no games but more epic possibilities.


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## Sassy (Aug 13, 2009)

Hahaha, good one, Poet! Oh wait..you're not..serious? Linux? Eww.

http://www.apple.com


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## Duality Jack (Aug 13, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Hahaha, good one, Poet! Oh wait..you're not..serious? Linux? Eww.
> 
> http://www.apple.com


 Not much of a joke when you now how to program, It does what i want it to, Apple is just another corperate asshole trying to get in your wallet I am very anti-DRM and very pro-open source


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## NeroFox1989 (Aug 13, 2009)

What's Linux?  is it like a self-programmable operating system or something?  If so, sounds interesting enough to give it a spin


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## Duality Jack (Aug 13, 2009)

NeroFox1989 said:


> What's Linux?  is it like a self-programmable operating system or something?  If so, sounds interesting enough to give it a spin


 Use one you can boot from CD to give it a shot first, Its not for everyone but that way you can give it a spin without commuting just get a program that can Burn CD isos like Deep burner and download the torrent   Its free, and its easy to use and you can program it more if you wish

My fav distros

Ubuntu
http://www.ubuntu.com/

And Back track 3
http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html


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## VengeanceZ (Aug 13, 2009)

To solve the physical dump problem:

2/ From Start menu Click Control panel

3/ In Control Panel Click the System icon

4/ In the System Window look on the Left hand side of the window and you will see a list of options. Click on the Advanced System Settings option

5/ Because Computer management requires administrative privileges you may find the the User Account Control will pop up. If it does then enter the required information (if you are not the administrator) or, if you are the administrator, click the Continue button

6/ In the Advanced Settings window look for the Startup and Recovery section and then Click the Settings button

7/ In the Startup and recovery window look for the section marked System failure and remove the 'tick' mark from the 'Automatically Restart' option. Now press OK button

8/ Finally click the OK button on the System properties Window and then close the system window.


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## CryoScales (Aug 13, 2009)

I usually use Acronis to reinstall my OS when my PC takes a shit all over everything. I usually do this every year anyway to get rid of unnecessary files


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## yiffytimesnews (Aug 13, 2009)

Not so fast Ubuntu Linux does have games and a lot of them check out www.getdeb.net


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## Kivaari (Aug 13, 2009)

I've managed to get Guild Wars playing on my Ubuntu computer with Wine. Now if only it had a good graphics card so I could actually play the game.

If you try using a Live CD to test out linux, it will be slow since it's running from the CD, but will be much faster if you install it. Or, if you use something like Puppy Linux, it will even be fast with the Live CD.


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## ToeClaws (Aug 13, 2009)

First off all, let's not turn this into another OS debate thread, so stop bashing Apple, PCs, Linux and trying to derail the thread.



Rel said:


> Either
> 
> - reinstall the OS (files & settings go into a folder called 'windows.old')
> 
> ...



Before installing the OS, you really should try to see what's going on.  PC's running Windows can bluescreen for a number of reasons such as bad memory, failing hard drives, overheating, a corrupted OS install, or failing power supplies.

A quick way of testing some of those is to boot the system up on a LiveCD.  Most of them come with a memory tester such as MemTest86+ which you can boot into to test the RAM.  The test will take a while, but if something is profoundly wrong, you'll see results pretty quickly.  I would recommend downloading a live CD like Ubuntu or Mint Linux for this since I know both have the MemTest program, and are quite functional and good at detecting hardware for the next bit of the test...

If the memory test reveals nothing wrong, boot the PC up using the LiveCD so that you go into the desktop of whatever one you picked.  Try just doing some generic stuff with it for a while - open a browser, surf around a bit, and leave it running for a while.  Does it lock up or cause a problem?  If so, then your issue is likely related to heat or the power supply because you know it's not memory, the usual OS, or the hard drive that way (LiveCD's don't use the hard drive).  If it runs fine for a long time (well past when it usually fails), then your problem is either on the hard drive or with the Windows install itself, in which case you'll want to check the drive.

You can usually download drive-diagnostic utilities from whoever made the drive.  If the drive's okay, then you'll want to go with Rel's first suggestion and reinstall Windows.



NeroFox1989 said:


> What's Linux?  is it like a self-programmable operating system or something?  If so, sounds interesting enough to give it a spin



Linux is one of many operating systems available for a variety of processor architectures, including the common PC.  For more information on it, you may want to look at the two sticky threads in this branch of the forum, detailed info on popular distributions is mentioned here: http://forums.furaffinity.net/showpost.php?p=854560&postcount=5

If you want to discus it further though, do so in those threads or start a new one please.


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## Kangamutt (Aug 13, 2009)

Get a Mac. Those TOTALLY don't have problems. 

Snark aside, If you get ANY computer at all, they're ALL going to have problems. The best OS is no OS.

Of course you'll be without a computer, but hey; NO COMPUTER PROBLEMS!


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## CAThulu (Aug 13, 2009)

ToeClaws, you are well on your way to becoming a mod


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 13, 2009)

Poet said:


> Install Linux, Ubuntu is good to start. But no games but more epic possibilities.


 
Linux: For people who have fun by not doing anything fun.


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## ToeClaws (Aug 13, 2009)

CAThulu said:


> ToeClaws, you are well on your way to becoming a mod



No... gods no.


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## CAThulu (Aug 13, 2009)

^ *LOL*

You might want to stop hearding sheeple with logic on the forums, then.   It gets you noticed.


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## ToeClaws (Aug 13, 2009)

CAThulu said:


> ^ *LOL*
> 
> You might want to stop hearding sheeple with logic on the forums, then.   It gets you noticed.



But I like my Logic club - it's big and fun to bash people with.  Along with the reality mace and the sword of obvious.

BTW, love the new sig picture.


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## CAThulu (Aug 13, 2009)

Don't forget the shield of facts and the armour of experience.

....I played too much D&D as a kid, didn't I?


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## SailorYue (Aug 13, 2009)

my old netbook, a g-meso would get that after id plug it in... i havent used it in a while, but i think there was something wrong with the battery driver. it had xp istalled over the old OS which was unbutu (which i had to get rid of cuz it broke my wifi).... so maybe a driver is broken... theres a program on download.net, forget what its called... checkversion maybe? that will scan your drivers and tell you if something is outdated.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 13, 2009)

Another thing;
When I plug in the adapter, processor usage goes up by 50% and stays there till I've pulled the plug.


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## SailorYue (Aug 13, 2009)

battery drivers out dated. find a way to update it, OR try thig: go to hwere the propeties of the power settings are and find and click the button that says "uninstall driver" (make sure yoyur plugged in) then reboot. the driver will reinstall itself. this worked when my camera and wifi stopped working, i just reinstalled the drivers.


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## ArielMT (Aug 13, 2009)

Mash the F8 key before the Windows logo appears, then choose from the startup menu:

Disable automatic restart on system failure​
(If you see the Windows logo, it's too late to get to this menu.)

When it blue-screens again, write down the stop error code, parameters, and file name (if it gives you one).  Google should then be able to help you figure out what's wrong and how to fix it.

Most of the time, you won't need to enter the parameters or file name as search terms, only the stop error code.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 13, 2009)

SailorYue said:


> battery drivers out dated. find a way to update it, OR try thig: go to hwere the propeties of the power settings are and find and click the button that says "uninstall driver" (make sure yoyur plugged in) then reboot. the driver will reinstall itself. this worked when my camera and wifi stopped working, i just reinstalled the drivers.



I forgot to say that this only happens when I use my own charger.
It works fine when I use other's which are all the same (school laptops).


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## SailorYue (Aug 13, 2009)

go to amazon and buy a replacement. dont get a stupid universal one tho... try to find one that matches your model number EXACTLY... thats what i did when i foudn an exact preplacement for my acer aspire one 8.9


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## Arcadium (Aug 14, 2009)

Well, it's compromises. PC's need more work, but you can do more than on a Macintosh. And on the talk of Linux, it's for some.


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## ArielMT (Aug 14, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> I forgot to say that this only happens when I use my own charger.
> It works fine when I use other's which are all the same (school laptops).



This sheds light.  What are the voltage and amperage rating on the chargers?

The voltage rating must be precise.  It's okay for the amperage rating to be higher, but it mustn't be lower.  I'd bet a two-dollar bill that your charger has a lower amp rating.


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## Trpdwarf (Aug 14, 2009)

What the hell are you doing to it to make it do that? It sounds like it is not getting something it requires but what do I know?


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 14, 2009)

ArielMT said:


> This sheds light.  What are the voltage and amperage rating on the chargers?



It's supposed to output 19 volts & 4,47 ampere.


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## SailorYue (Aug 14, 2009)

does the area whe re the plug goes in the laptop get unsually HOT when plugged into yours? if so there's someting wrong with the adapter... its not doing the ac/dc exchange and is probably over charging. id advise buying a new adapter for your model... perhaps from the manufacture's website


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 14, 2009)

SailorYue said:


> does the area whe re the plug goes in the laptop get unsually HOT when plugged into yours? if so there's someting wrong with the adapter... its not doing the ac/dc exchange and is probably over charging. id advise buying a new adapter for your model... perhaps from the manufacture's website


 
If the battery was over charging, it'd have exploded violently.

The batteries in laptops arn't stupid and have monitoring hardware built in. When they reach a certian temperature they will actually pause charging while it waits to cool down. This is because Lithium Batteries are of the most volitile battery chemistry there is.

It is highly doubtful that the battery is being 'overcharged' without the protection and management hardware in the battery having failed. If this is the case the battery should be replaced before it *burns down your house*.

Though many laptops can communicate in limited ways with their AC Adaptors.  My Dell Inspiron 600M for example expects a PA-12 65w adaptor, if it's given a third party universal adaptor that isn't fully compatable the machine will actually recognise that and issue a warning that it can't get the power it expects from the adaptor and while it will power off AC it will not charge the battery.  Same would happen with an older, lower wattage adaptor of if say, I used my 65w PA-12 on my roommate's laptop which requires a 90w PA-10.


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## Carenath (Aug 14, 2009)

Poet said:


> Install Linux, Ubuntu is good to start. But no games but more epic possibilities.





Sassy said:


> Hahaha, good one, Poet! Oh wait..you're not..serious? Linux? Eww.
> http://www.apple.com


And completely irrelevent to the post, which isnt about which PC/OS is better, and I'll be damned if Im going to let this thread devolve into that.



CAThulu said:


> ToeClaws, you are well on your way to becoming a mod


It's called back-seat moderating I think 



ArielMT said:


> When it blue-screens again, write down the stop error code, parameters, and file name (if it gives you one).  Google should then be able to help you figure out what's wrong and how to fix it.
> 
> Most of the time, you won't need to enter the parameters or file name as search terms, only the stop error code.


Just the STOP error code, and a quick search on Microsoft's Technet, will tell you exactly what the error means, likely causes and suggested solutions.


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## SailorYue (Aug 14, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ArielMT*
> 
> 
> ...



when my netbook bluescreened it went off so fast i could neer see wtf it said. it just did it whenever i plugged the thing in, which is why i had started by disconecting the plug from the adapter cube, plugging the cube into the netbook THEN reconnecting the power plug. inconvenient, but i got no more blue screens (tho for some reason i nocied that EVERY day betwen 12-2 my netbook was off and had restarted. (my background was gone instead i got the LIVE desktop thingy, WHICh i had disabled.

FYI: never get a g-meso and put XP on it... the damn thing sucx. i hated the google unbutu thing that was on it (g-nome it was called) and my bro put XP on it and it turns out that the drivers sylvania has on theyre site were half-outdated! ._.


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## Ikrit (Aug 14, 2009)

Sassy said:


> *http://www.apple.com*


no! no! bad! very bad!


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## Aurali (Aug 14, 2009)

Carenath said:


> It's called back-seat moderating I think



Mini modding :3
Some forums like it, others detest it...

On topic though,

Is the computer new?
what system is it?
what OS is it?

Can you give a bit of details to exactly what happens? (my head is thinking virus :/)


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## Stensca (Aug 15, 2009)

Why has nobody asked the poster to upload a memory dump?

OP: Upload a memory dump using RapidShare or something.  It'll be located in c:\windows\minidump .

That being said, if it only happens when you use a certain AC adapter, then you found the problem.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 16, 2009)

Eli said:


> Is the computer new?
> what system is it?
> what OS is it?
> 
> Can you give a bit of details to exactly what happens? (my head is thinking virus :/)



Less than a year old.
It's a HP 6530b.
Unfortunately, it runs on Windows Vista Enterprise SP1, 32bit

The blue screen comes from time to time, and when it does, it's usually three to four times in a row.



Stensca said:


> memory dump



.. What?




lazyredhead said:


> no! no! bad! very bad!



Don't make me come over to your place.


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## Duality Jack (Aug 16, 2009)

Honestly Apple is a pompous company, That bugs me


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## theLight (Aug 16, 2009)

Edit for personal security.


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## Ikrit (Aug 16, 2009)

mac is "user friendly"

(that means it's for stupid people)


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## ArielMT (Aug 16, 2009)

SailorYue said:


> when my netbook bluescreened it went off so fast i could neer see wtf it said.



If you want to disable restart on BSOD, go to Start -> (Settings) -> Control Panel -> (Performance and Maintenance) -> System to bring up the System Properties window.  (Skip the items in parentheses if you don't see them.)

On the Advanced tab, click on the Settings button in the Startup and Recovery section, then uncheck the checkbox in the System Failure section that reads, "Automatically restart."



SailorYue said:


> it just did it whenever i plugged the thing in, which is why i had started by disconecting the plug from the adapter cube, plugging the cube into the netbook THEN reconnecting the power plug. inconvenient, but i got no more blue screens (tho for some reason i nocied that EVERY day betwen 12-2 my netbook was off and had restarted. (my background was gone instead i got the LIVE desktop thingy, WHICh i had disabled.



Now *that's* weird.



SailorYue said:


> FYI: never get a g-meso and put XP on it... the damn thing sucx. i hated the google unbutu thing that was on it (g-nome it was called) and my bro put XP on it and it turns out that the drivers sylvania has on theyre site were half-outdated! ._.



Ubuntu Netbook Remix, it should be.  And it's not designed to be much more than a netbook.

Edit: Laptop Magazine gave it 2.5 out of 5 stars.  :/



Stensca said:


> Why has nobody asked the poster to upload a memory dump?
> 
> OP: Upload a memory dump using RapidShare or something.  It'll be located in c:\windows\minidump .



Probably because the memory dump contains very little potentially useful information for end-users, beyond what's displayed on the Blue Screen of Death.  Core dumps are meant for programmers and debuggers.  By the way, Microsoft KB Article 315263 describes how to read it.



Carenath said:


> Just the STOP error code, and a quick search on Microsoft's Technet, will tell you exactly what the error means, likely causes and suggested solutions.



Nine times out of ten, yes.



lazyredhead said:


> mac is "user friendly"
> 
> (that means it's for stupid people)



Unix is user-friendly, too.  It's just pickier about who its users are. =p


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## Dyluck (Aug 16, 2009)

Buy a P.C. that isn't a piece of shit next time.


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## ArielMT (Aug 16, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> It's supposed to output 19 volts & 4,47 ampere.



The amp rating sounds right, given a maximum power consumption of 90 watts.  However, according to the product information sheet I found [pdf], the book is supposed to take an input of 18.5 volts.

(I couldn't find anything on HP's Norway site to verify if this is worldwide or not.  My ignorance of Norwegian doesn't help.)


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## Rel (Aug 16, 2009)

Eh, i had Ubuntu on my old laptop, and i ended up ditching it for Windows 7, mainly due to that it could never connect to the internet (i didn't have the network driver problem with windows). So i tried everything to get the driver back on, (even my spanish teacher who uses/loves linux helped me, and we still couldn't figure it out), so i just gave up and went to windows 7. (best decision ever imo)

Anyway, with power adapters, the battery extremely rarely overcharges, its usually just the battery lost its ability to hold a charge.


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## SailorYue (Aug 16, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Power...6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1250452698&sr=1-6
$20 to replacce the plug.  just kow that unless you choose 'expedite' it will take WEEKS for it to arrive.





> Now *that's* weird.
> 
> []
> 
> ...


it WAS wierd, and very anoying. glad i got a acer innstead... now i can browse the net troube free.


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## LotsOfNothing (Aug 16, 2009)

u shud bye a mac bcuz it just works ^_^







Realistically, it sounds like it's time for a new computer.


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## SailorYue (Aug 16, 2009)

he says his comps' fine if he borrows his friends plug... but its bad using his.... id say buy the $20 plug before spending $700 on  a new computer


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## LotsOfNothing (Aug 16, 2009)

SailorYue said:


> he says his comps' fine if he borrows his friends plug... but its bad using his.... id say buy the $20 plug before spending $700 on  a new computer




Sorry, I just read the first post.  I figured every response was "LOL GET A MAC ITS 20000000 TIMES BETTER," or "You obviously need Linux.  It's perfect in every way."


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## RailRide (Aug 16, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> Though many laptops can communicate in limited ways with their AC Adaptors.  My Dell Inspiron 600M for example expects a PA-12 65w adaptor, if it's given a third party universal adaptor that isn't fully compatable the machine will actually recognise that and issue a warning that it can't get the power it expects from the adaptor and while it will power off AC it will not charge the battery.  Same would happen with an older, lower wattage adaptor of if say, I used my 65w PA-12 on my roommate's laptop which requires a 90w PA-10.



I can vouch for this. My brother's new Dell laptop had the wrong power supply packed with it (dealer may have had it on display and mistakenly put the wrong one in). The system would put up a dialog saying it wasn't getting sufficient power to run properly and refused to charge the battery. When we finally got an adapter with the proper rating, the laptop booted and ran normally ever since.

---PCJ


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## RailRide (Aug 16, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> It's supposed to output 19 volts & 4,47 ampere.



That's what's on the power supply. Now what does the computer itself say underneath? The two should match. If the amperage or voltage requirements aren't met by the power supply, that too could cause problems (Dells will apparently complain about this. I don't know about HP).

---PCJ


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## Jiyiki (Aug 16, 2009)

HHAHA I WATCH TV ADS PC MEANS WINDOWS DURRR.

A pc is a personal computer.  an OS IS OPERATION SYSTEM.  a PC can be a mac or a windows or linux computer.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 16, 2009)

Unfortunately, I can't buy new hardware for this crappy thing because I'm buying it from the school I go to, though I couldn't pay it all at once (it was not an option), so they actually still kind of own it. Therefore I am not allowed to change any settings on software, and I can't replace hardware of any kind.

However, I could go to the IT-guy at school for free techsupport* 'n stuff.

*That'd be removing everything, reinstalling Vista + making the darn thing crappier.




Jiyiki said:


> HHAHA I WATCH TV ADS PC MEANS WINDOWS DURRR.
> 
> A pc is a personal computer.  an OS IS OPERATION SYSTEM.  a PC can be a mac or a windows or linux computer.



Wrong, a PC is Windows, Linus etc. (NOT Mac.)
A Mac is a Mac.


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 16, 2009)

Jiyiki said:


> HHAHA I WATCH TV ADS PC MEANS WINDOWS DURRR.
> 
> A pc is a personal computer. an OS IS OPERATION SYSTEM. a PC can be a mac or a windows or linux computer.


 
While this was once true, the common usage of 'PC' shifted to refer exclusively to the IBM PC and compatable hardware once... Well pretty much once the IBM Compatable took over the market by the last 80s. ...Too bad it wasn't IBM's IBM Compatables that did it.

Technicly Macs are 'Personal Computers' but then also, technicly my Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2, PSP and Ti-87 Graphics Calculator are all 'Computers' however when we say 'Computer' we mean home microcomputers.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 16, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> While this was once true, the common usage of 'PC' shifted to refer exclusively to the IBM PC and compatable hardware once... Well pretty much once the IBM Compatable took over the market by the last 80s. ...Too bad it wasn't IBM's IBM Compatables that did it.
> 
> Technicly Macs are 'Personal Computers' but then also, technicly my Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2, PSP and Ti-87 Graphics Calculator are all 'Computers' however when we say 'Computer' we mean home microcomputers.



You are a computer-geek, and I love it.


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## SailorYue (Aug 16, 2009)

the adapter i posted is an ACCESORY... your not changing anything with the computer itself.


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 16, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> You are a computer-geek, and I love it.


 
I'm more of a video and media nerd really.


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## Jiyiki (Aug 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> While this was once true, the common usage of 'PC' shifted to refer exclusively to the IBM PC and compatable hardware once... Well pretty much once the IBM Compatable took over the market by the last 80s. ...Too bad it wasn't IBM's IBM Compatables that did it.
> 
> Technicly Macs are 'Personal Computers' but then also, technicly my Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2, PSP and Ti-87 Graphics Calculator are all 'Computers' however when we say 'Computer' we mean home microcomputers.



YOUR RESISTANCE ONLY MAKES ME HARDER!


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## theLight (Aug 17, 2009)

Edit for personal security.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

SailorYue said:


> the adapter i posted is an ACCESORY... your not changing anything with the computer itself.



Exactly. But the IT-guy is an ass who thinks he knows everything, though he doesn't. And if he finds anything on my computer that I'm not allowed to have, he removes it. Which never happens because he is an idiot.
Examples;


We arent allowed to install/uninstall things without permission (drivers, programs, games, whatever).  I've got WoW, CS, Steam and Spore.
No Pornography. No one who go to the same school as me has more porn on their computer than me.
We are not allowed to download copyrighted material. I've got an illegal copy of Adobe Flash CS4 Pro.
If only he was better at what he's supposed to do, I'd be a goddamn goldmine.

I mean I could use the PirateBay logo as a background image on my desktop, and he would'nt take the hint.


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## SailorYue (Aug 17, 2009)

lol, but the adapter wont change anything. promise.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

SailorYue said:


> lol, but the adapter wont change anything. promise.



I know it won't change stuff, except perhaps for the constant lag, but he'd kill me and destroy the pc if he were to see that I used some other adapter than the one we were given.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Aug 17, 2009)

Watch it, macfags don't want their pwecious iMac to be called PC.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Watch it, macfags don't want their pwecious iMac to be called PC.



Go somewhere nice and fap to your avatar, you sicken me.


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## VengeanceZ (Aug 17, 2009)

VengeanceZ said:


> To solve the physical dump problem:
> 
> 2/ From Start menu Click Control panel
> 
> ...



Did I waste my time writing that? ;_;


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

VengeanceZ said:


> Did I waste my time writing that? ;_;



I think so... What that there does is to disable automatical restart after a bluescreen, right?
How's that going to solve the bluescreen problem?


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 17, 2009)

How about you swap the adaptor one one of the ones stationed all around the school?


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## Duality Jack (Aug 17, 2009)

I find it funny that windows Vista still works on the same fundamentals as windows 3.1 did Ages ago, same general concepts of file management and file tables. Luckily Windows 7 is going to be new from the ground up (at least more then anything before)


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> How about you swap the adaptor one one of the ones stationed all around the school?



The though has crossed my mind several times. :3


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 17, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> The though has crossed my mind several times. :3


 
They're all the same.  They're all PROPERTY of the school, including yours, so the school will own both the good and the bad adaptor anyway, right?  You do make it sound like the laptop is 100% owned by the school and loaned to you.  It's not like it's stealing if that's the way it is.


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## Sassy (Aug 17, 2009)

Poet said:


> I find it funny that windows Vista still works on the same fundamentals as windows 3.1 did Ages ago, same general concepts of file management and file tables. Luckily Windows 7 is going to be new from the ground up (at least more then anything before)


what. haha no. Windows 7 was *originally* to be a ground up OS ditching Win32 entirely and running older code in virtualized mode (like "Classic" for OSX); but that's not the case anymore; Windows 7 is Vista SP3 being released under a new name. Might as well have called it "Mojave 2.0"


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## ToeClaws (Aug 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> I'm more of a video and media nerd really.



Still nice though - fewer and fewer youngin's are getting into IT fields (probably because they realize the jobs suck).  And your wealth of knowledge has been handy around here


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Might as well have called it "YouJustPaidForOurCrap version Again"



Fixed.


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## Kangamutt (Aug 17, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Watch it, macfags don't want their pwecious iMac to be called PC.



From a technical standpoint, they truly are PCs. Since 2005 Apple computers took on the standard PC architecture. Good thing, too. Form my experiences, the Power PC Apple units were real heaps, and highly prone to crashing programmes into the ground.


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## Sassy (Aug 17, 2009)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> From a technical standpoint, they truly are PCs. Since 2005 Apple computers took on the standard PC architecture. Good thing, too. Form my experiences, the Power PC Apple units were real heaps, and highly prone to crashing programmes into the ground.


^ Doesn't realize that both next gen consoles and both iterations of the Gamecube all use PowerPC architecture.
Wonder why that is?


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

Sassy said:


> both iterations of the Gamecube



... There were more than one?


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## Sassy (Aug 17, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> ... There were more than one?


Yeah, there's the purple one that looks like the makeup case where I keep my eyeliner and the thin white one with the stupid controller.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Yeah, there's the purple one that looks like the makeup case where I keep my eyeliner and the thin white one with the stupid controller.



Why weren't I informed? D:


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## Sassy (Aug 17, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> Why weren't I informed? D:


Gamecube 1.0
Gamecube 1.1


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Gamecube 1.0
> Gamecube 1.1



Oh. xD
I was thinking of some new (newer than the old one), smaller GameCube or something, not the Wii. x)


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## Sassy (Aug 17, 2009)

Newer smaller gamecube? Isn't that what I linked too?


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Newer smaller gamecube? Isn't that what I linked too?



... A GameCube that you can play Wii games on? 

I was thinking more like GameBoy Micro -ish, only it's a GameCube.


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## net-cat (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't think it's fair to call the Wii "Gamecube 1.1" I think it at least merits a major version bump.  "Gamecube 2.0."

As for PowerPC, it's awesome. Apple just generally failed at it for a very long time. It took them 'til OS X 10.3 or so for it to become somewhat usable. And I use the term "usable" loosely.


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## Sassy (Aug 17, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> ... A GameCube that you can play Wii games on?
> 
> I was thinking more like GameBoy Micro -ish, only it's a GameCube.


Wii games == Gamecube games + wagglan




net-cat said:


> I have never used Mac OSX on a Dual PowerPC G5.


Fix'd


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## net-cat (Aug 17, 2009)

I actually have.


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## Kangamutt (Aug 17, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> ... There were more than one?



The Wii. 

Back on track- Sure a Power PC architecture is fine if you want to play Super Mario Galaxy, but if you're running Photoshop and other digital imaging programmes (especially 3D modeling), I've found that the standard PC-based Apple systems held up far better than the older Apple units.


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## net-cat (Aug 17, 2009)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> Back on track- Sure a Power PC architecture is fine if you want to play Super Mario Galaxy, but if you're running Photoshop and other digital imaging programmes (especially 3D modeling), I've found that the standard PC-based Apple systems held up far better than the older Apple units.


Newer stuff out performs older stuff? Say it ain't so.

Back at the turn of the millennium when the x86 architecture was locked into a giant wank-fest over who could have the largest penis clock speed, PowerPC made sense. Then, when Intel finally figured out that NetBurst was a dead end and started doing some actual development on their architecture, adding more instruction sets, moving to 64-bit, widening their pipelines, that sort of thing, the Power folks were just kind of sitting on their ass, resting on their laurels.

And Apple kept poking them. "Hey, your stuff is kind of sucking. You're not keeping up with Intel. We're loosing our bread and butter, the media folks, to Intel/Microsoft-based solutions. Seriously. Do something, or we're going to switch to that Intel version of Mac OS X we've been developing since it's it's inception."

And, well, the rest is history.


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## Carenath (Aug 17, 2009)

Sassy said:


> what. haha no. Windows 7 was *originally* to be a ground up OS ditching Win32 entirely and running older code in virtualized mode (like "Classic" for OSX); but that's not the case anymore; Windows 7 is Vista SP3 being released under a new name. Might as well have called it "Mojave 2.0"


Unfortunately that's true.



ToeClaws said:


> Still nice though - fewer and fewer youngin's are getting into IT fields (probably because they realize the jobs suck).  And your wealth of knowledge has been handy around here


Debatable on both counts.



net-cat said:


> Back at the turn of the millennium when the x86 architecture was locked into a giant wank-fest over who could have the largest penis clock speed, PowerPC made sense. Then, when Intel finally figured out that NetBurst was a dead end and started doing some actual development on their architecture, adding more instruction sets, moving to 64-bit, widening their pipelines, that sort of thing, the Power folks were just kind of sitting on their ass, resting on their laurels.
> 
> And Apple kept poking them. "Hey, your stuff is kind of sucking. You're not keeping up with Intel. We're loosing our bread and butter, the media folks, to Intel/Microsoft-based solutions. Seriously. Do something, or we're going to switch to that Intel version of Mac OS X we've been developing since it's it's inception."
> 
> And, well, the rest is history.


Ahh you left out the fact that Intel themselves were doing sweet fuck all while AMD were roasting them alive with the Athlon and AthlonXP.. it was AMD that poked Intel into getting off their fat asses and doing something about the piece-of-shit that was the Pentium 4.


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## ToeClaws (Aug 17, 2009)

net-cat said:


> Newer stuff out performs older stuff? Say it ain't so.
> 
> Back at the turn of the millennium when the x86 architecture was locked into a giant wank-fest over who could have the largest penis clock speed, PowerPC made sense. Then, when Intel finally figured out that NetBurst was a dead end and started doing some actual development on their architecture, adding more instruction sets, moving to 64-bit, widening their pipelines, that sort of thing, the Power folks were just kind of sitting on their ass, resting on their laurels.



Yes, what an eye-roller that was.  The first Netburst products, the Willamette cores, were rushed to the market to counter the Athlons, and holy hell they were inefficient.  A 1.5GHz P4 could barely keep pace with a 1.0GHz PIII in terms of overall work.  They tried and tried to refine it before realizing, as you say, that the architecture was a bad idea and dumped it.  

Problem is that to this day, people don't understand that raw speed is _not_ the defining measure of CPU power.  You always have people going "Why would I get that 2.0GHz Core2 Quad when this PeniumD is 3.1GHz!?"  Oi.



Carenath said:


> Debatable on both counts.



*chuckles* Oh come on now, be nice.  And I don't know if it varies by country, but in Canada, particularly from seeing what I do with working at a university, there's not a lot of interest in computer science anymore.  Compare it with the swell in interest of the 80's and 90s, and it's kinda sad. :/


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## VengeanceZ (Aug 17, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> I think so... What that there does is to disable automatical restart after a bluescreen, right?
> How's that going to solve the bluescreen problem?



;_;

Solves half the problem *high five* YEAH!


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

VengeanceZ said:


> ;_;
> 
> Solves half the problem *high five* YEAH!



But.. I don't have a problem with it restarting after bluescreening. D:


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## Kangamutt (Aug 17, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Problem is that to this day, people don't understand that raw speed is _not_ the defining measure of CPU power. Oi.



Unbearably true. It's all I hear from my parents about their computer. "We need a new computer" this, "This thing's a piece of junk" that. (Granted it runs a P4 processor, but that's hardly the problem here.) And I tell them that their RAM module is only 256 MB, which then I have to explain Murphy's law, and how a computer's speed doubles every 1 1/2 - 2 years, as well as a programme's requirements to run, at which they just ignore me. Then they continue to bitch about paying up to $1000 for a new system (rather than paying $50 for a 1GB module). But I've quit telling them that long ago. If they get a new machine, I'll just scoop the old one up for myself; it'll make a nice little gaming machine for me.


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## net-cat (Aug 17, 2009)

Carenath said:


> Ahh you left out the fact that Intel themselves were doing sweet fuck all while AMD were roasting them alive with the Athlon and AthlonXP.. it was AMD that poked Intel into getting off their fat asses and doing something about the piece-of-shit that was the Pentium 4.


No, they were doing something. They were having a wank-fest to make their clock speed bigger. The sad part is that it was actually working for a while there.

AMD: Check out our Athlons. They run cool, lower power and they perform just as well at a lower clock speed.
Intel: WE HAVE AN ELEVENTY BILLION TERAHERTZ PROCESSOR LOL.
Customer: OMG? I've never heard of that company. Intel has a bigger number. And it has "giga" in it. That's big. Give me that, please.


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## ToeClaws (Aug 17, 2009)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> Unbearably true. It's all I hear from my parents about their computer. "We need a new computer" this, "This thing's a piece of junk" that. (Granted it runs a P4 processor, but that's hardly the problem here.) And I tell them that their RAM module is only 256 MB, which then I have to explain Murphy's law, and how a computer's speed doubles every 1 1/2 - 2 years, as well as a programme's requirements to run, at which they just ignore me. Then they continue to bitch about paying up to $1000 for a new system (rather than paying $50 for a 1GB module). But I've quit telling them that long ago. If they get a new machine, I'll just scoop the old one up for myself; it'll make a nice little gaming machine for me.



Yeeeeep - been there man.  During my time doing sales, I'd try to explain in as simple a way as I could about how speed and power work, but it always comes down to the dollar value, and big flashy numbers.

My Dad is good example of this.  About 7 years ago, they bought a new computer after much prodding by me to replace their horribly slow Pentium 100.  The computer they got was one of those HP bundle deals where you get a system, monitor, printer, etc.  They paid about $700 for the bundle and it was, of course, a steaming pile of crap.  

The CPU was a Willamette core Celeron at 2Ghz (which was about as good as a Pentium III 733), it had 256M of RAM, a 40g 5400rpm drive, XP Home, and built in video.  Dad was proud of his great and affordable purchase and right away I was telling them it was garbage.  But they didn't like my "spend at least $1500 or more" sensible advice.

As they years went by, issue after issue cropped up.  First, XP Home was replaced by 2000 Professional, then eventually XP Pro when XP became somewhat stable after Sp2.  The RAM was twice upgraded because it was sadly inadequate, the second time putting it at a measely 1G which turns out to be the box's maximum.  The drive slowly died and slowed down and was replaced with a higher-end 7200rpm 160G model (again, the maximum the board would support), the power supply blew, the fans required multiple oilings over the years, and I eventually found a Northwood core P4 to replace the crappy Celeron with to give it _some _scrap of tangible performance.  Tried to replace the video card too only to realize the first time I had it open that it didn't even have an AGP slot.  The monitor died, and the printer also died.

So... in the end, just about everything got replaced or rebuilt on this thing, yet a few weeks ago when my folks were talking about getting a new one again, I was saying "This time, for god sakes, get a good machine." and Dad goes "Why? We did pretty good with that one given how little we paid for it."

ARG!!  Like a lot of users, he fails to see the constant maintenance, repairs and problems as a result of a bad purchase.  Been going through that for 20 years with him, and he still can't see the value in just spending a little more up front with them.


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## Scruffy113 (Aug 17, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> So... in the end, just about everything got replaced or rebuilt on this thing, yet a few weeks ago when my folks were talking about getting a new one again, I was saying "This time, for god sakes, get a good machine." and Dad goes "Why? We did pretty good with that one given how little we paid for it."



I laughed so hard, I nearly wee'd. x'D


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## AshleyAshes (Aug 17, 2009)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> From a technical standpoint, they truly are PCs. Since 2005 Apple computers took on the standard PC architecture. Good thing, too. Form my experiences, the Power PC Apple units were real heaps, and highly prone to crashing programmes into the ground.


 
No, they arn't PCs, they are x86 Macs.  They arn't IBM Compatable so they arn't what we call 'PCs'.  Sure you can get IBM PC software running on the Mac but it's based on emulating parts of the IBM PC compatable BIOS.  If it was a PC, you could just stick your Windows DVD in the machine, boot and start installing the OS from scratch and you can't do that.

By the same logic, the Xbox connected to my TV is a PC because it's based primarily on x86 off the shelf components.  However the machine is not IBM Compatable, it's not a PC despite it's remarkable similarity.


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## Ozriel (Aug 17, 2009)

Your irony is soo full of win.


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## net-cat (Aug 17, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> If it was a PC, you could just stick your Windows DVD in the machine, boot and start installing the OS from scratch and you can't do that.


Um. Yes you can. You couldn't back when they first switched, but the BIOS emulation is now built into the firmware every x86 Mac. Macintosh are, in their out of the box configuration, IBM PC Compatible. Down to the CPU's IO ports being the same. (As far as that saying goes. I've not seen a computer that had an actual 5.25 inch disk drive in years.)

Yes, the functionality has been extended. But were they not IBM Compatible, you would not have Hackintoshes. You would not be able to run Windows on them. I was able to install Windows Vista onto a Mac Pro with a blank hard drive with no interference or assistance from Mac OS X or Boot Camp to speak of. (It's what the customer wanted. Once you go Mac, you can always go back. )

Boot Camp is merely a suite of drivers and applications that allow you to transition between the two operating systems with less trouble.



AshleyAshes said:


> By the same logic, the Xbox connected to my TV is a PC because it's based primarily on x86 off the shelf components.  However the machine is not IBM Compatable, it's not a PC despite it's remarkable similarity.


You're right. It's not IBM Compatible. The IO is mapped differently. There is no on-board hardware that can act as a BIOS in any meaningful way. The video hardware cannot be initialized by an IBM-compatible BIOS. This was done with the express purpose of making sure Windows could never, ever run on an Xbox.

Similarly, I can't run the PPC port of NT4 on a PowerPC Macintosh. It was designed for a different platform.

A processor does does not a platform make. Intel Macs have always been designed with IBM PC compatibility in mind. *Intel Macs are PCs.*

(If I had to guess, it was Apple's way of cutting development costs. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to go buy an off-the-shelf PC to develop on than it is to build a new platform from scratch and have prototypes built.)


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## Carenath (Aug 17, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> *chuckles* Oh come on now, be nice.  And I don't know if it varies by country, but in Canada, particularly from seeing what I do with working at a university, there's not a lot of interest in computer science anymore.  Compare it with the swell in interest of the 80's and 90s, and it's kinda sad. :/


It's a forum, debatable is the name of the game sunshine.



net-cat said:


> No, they were doing something. They were having a wank-fest to make their clock speed bigger. The sad part is that it was actually working for a while there.
> Not really.. increasing the clock-speed was the only way Intel could increase the performance out of the chips.. they were as efficient as an American car.





AshleyAshes said:


> No, they arn't PCs, they are x86 Macs.  They arn't IBM Compatable so they arn't what we call 'PCs'.  Sure you can get IBM PC software running on the Mac but it's based on emulating parts of the IBM PC compatable BIOS.  If it was a PC, you could just stick your Windows DVD in the machine, boot and start installing the OS from scratch and you can't do that.


The BIOS is the only holdover from the IBM PC days, and it's touted replacement, is EFI which is what the Intel Macs were using. Windows 7 will support booting from EFI so no BIOS emulation would be needed in theory... in practise.. hardware and other issues will mean BIOS wont be going away anytime soon.


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## Armaetus (Aug 17, 2009)

I was getting blue screens while the computer was under some load (gaming and non-gaming) and I found out it was a bad stick of RAM. Two replacements sticks will be sent this way soon.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Aug 18, 2009)

Scruffy113 said:


> Go somewhere nice and fap to your avatar, you sicken me.



Then I shall sicken you more!


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## Runefox (Aug 18, 2009)

AshleyAshes said:


> No, they arn't PCs, they are x86 Macs.  They arn't IBM Compatable so they arn't what we call 'PCs'.  Sure you can get IBM PC software running on the Mac but it's based on emulating parts of the IBM PC compatable BIOS.  If it was a PC, you could just stick your Windows DVD in the machine, boot and start installing the OS from scratch and you can't do that.



That's because it doesn't use BIOS; It uses EFI. Windows 7 (and indeed Vista64 SP1, Windows XP 64-bit and several Windows Server OS'es starting from 2000, plus the Linux kernel) supports booting from and installing to EFI-based systems, and there's a consortium to get OEM's to start using EFI instead of BIOS in the near future as EFI support becomes more widespread, of which Apple is a member.

Technically, in the next few years, PC's won't be "PC's", either.

EDIT: Also, PowerPC is popular because it's widespread and is a RISC architecture, which is very suitable for specialized tasks (see: Game consoles), while x86 processors are based on CISC, which are inherently suitable for general tasks - A "master of none", as it were, which is what helped it succeed early on aside from IBM's use of it in the PC spec. If not for the fact that it's currently one of the most widespread architectures around due to its dominance early in the game, we'd probably be using something else (probably RISC-based); It's widely regarded as very inefficient, and has been for some time (see also: DEC Alpha). Apple's decision to switch to x86 was, as I understand it, purely financial and in response to Intel and AMD's advancements and additions to the spec closing the gap on the PowerPC architecture of the time. Then again, go look it up on Wiki if you're curious.


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## ToeClaws (Aug 18, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Technically, in the next few years, PC's won't be "PC's", either.



And it'll be about damn time.  Sometimes the market lingers WAY too long on inefficient old ways of doing things.  Floppy drives, for example.


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## Runefox (Aug 18, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> And it'll be about damn time.  Sometimes the market lingers WAY too long on inefficient old ways of doing things.  Floppy drives, for example.



Hey, don't knock the floppies! We still need those to install our shiny new RAID/AHCI controllers during Windows XP setup for the next decade or so!

Of course, that won't make much difference to you, will it?


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## ToeClaws (Aug 18, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Hey, don't knock the floppies! We still need those to install our shiny new RAID/AHCI controllers during Windows XP setup for the next decade or so!
> 
> Of course, that won't make much difference to you, will it?



*laughs* Funny you should mention that - I was building a new system for my ex, and wanted to migrate her current XP install to the new box.  The new system was a Core2 Quad core, with the old being an Athlon XP, so there were a lot of architecture changes, like no IDE controller for her older drives.  Copied her two old drives to two partitions on the SATA drive, but there was no floppy drive.  Was one of those custom mini tower cases, so had to take the system half way apart just to look at the motherboard to find if it even had a floppy connector, and it did.  Found an old floppy drive, went through 7 floppies trying to find out that would still format and work, and got the SATA drivers on.  Oi, what a hassle.

In the end though, it worked out really well - ported over her original XP install, so all her software and apps worked without needing to be reinstalled.


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## Sassy (Aug 18, 2009)

Apple's choice to switch to x86 over PPC was purely a performance vs power argument; all of Apples mainstream machines (everything except for then Power Mac) use laptop CPU's. The fact of the matter is that the G5 available at the time; as well as the then-future roadmap for the Power Architecture just wasn't going to provide a good thermal window for this application.

As for performance where heat is *not* an issue; however; the Power Mac G5's  compared *very* favorably to the Mac Pro 1,1 upon release ~ see here for a comparison.
(note: it's very difficult to find Valid Mac Pro data on the Xbench website now due to the abundance of Hackintosh machines which by default identify as Mac Pro; however I've chosen a Mac Pro 1,1 machine from 2007 as comparison (vs a Late 2005 Power Mac) so the results should be valid)


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