# Philosophy in writing



## M. LeRenard (Sep 3, 2008)

This is just a short comment on my part, but I figured it might merit some further discussion.
When writing a philosophical piece, or at least when including some kind of philosophy in a piece, I find it always has the best effect when it's veiled.  If you're just out and out stating the philosophy you wish to detail (whether through a character speaking, an aside on the part of the narrator, in something the characters read, etc.), the only thing you're going to accomplish is making the reader feel he/she just got lectured.  Not only is this a good way to minimize attention paid to your work, but it also has the unpleasant effect of making it a lot easier to disagree with your philosophy.  Humans tend to learn best through example; simply stating "Altruism is the true key to happiness," or whatever, doesn't leave the reader with anything else to go on, but if you point this out by showing the peaceful smile of a man who died knowing he did all he could to help those around him, people are going to empathize more.
In a sense, it's just another use of that infamous phrase "show, don't tell".  In this case, though, it's far more important, because you've got a message you're trying to get out.
So what do you all think about philosophy in writing?  Should it even be there, how should it be put forward if it is there, anything along those lines?


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## Adelio Altomar (Sep 3, 2008)

Honestly I think philosophy should appear in writing; maybe a good message will get across to more people. If you're reading something, there should be more to it than just for pleasure, or "to take you to another world."


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## M. LeRenard (Sep 4, 2008)

Care to elaborate?


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## Cryoforion (Sep 9, 2008)

I totally think writers should include philosophy in their writing--I think that's one of the key reasons writers write.

People learn through experience--but life is to short, and the world too small, to learn all we need through experience of our own. Thus, storytelling. It's a form of offering vicarious experience to others; a way for us to experience something we've never actually lived. Some people (actually, a lot of people) like to use that as a way to escape the real world, get away from reality for a while and experience things that otherwise only happen in dreams. But beneath that, at the core of it, I think storytelling is really all about teaching--offering new perspectives, new ideas, and new life lessons that don't have to be actually lived to be learned.

But, I also totally agree with the show-vs.-tell approach. Very few people react well to being preached at, and even those that do end up with a relatively shallow understanding of whatever grand idea the author was trying to express. The key is to _tell a story_--offer a vicarious experience by which the lesson is learned. When that is done well, the core message of the story sinks into the reader's brain as effectively as if he'd lived it himself.


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## ScottyDM (Sep 10, 2008)

I've seen it termed *the theme of the story*. That is, what's the concept behind the story that drives it forward.

My latest WIP (work in progress) is cyber/sci-fi + anthro set on an alternate earth. The theme is twofold: dreams, and becoming an adult. The main character uses his literal dreams (his subconscious talking to his conscious) to help him make the transition to adulthood. He deals with two major secondary characters: his dream girl, an A.I. who lives in virtual reality, whom he's fallen in love with; and his sister, who at 21 still lives at home. At one point he tells his sister that she needs a new dream, meaning a plan for the future. The issues are that he needs to grow up and give up his old dream of living in V.R. with the A.I. girl, and his sister needs to grow up and stop relying on her mother. So I use the concept of dreams at least three different ways.

In a longer story I keep coming back to--yet unfinished, it keeps growing--the major theme is: no matter how noble the goal, the ends do _not_ justify the means. My heroine and villain are both working for the good of the other's species, but the villain has turned to terrorist acts to achieve his goals. A secondary theme would be courage on the part of the heroine. I spend quite a bit of time in the POV of the villain, so I guess a tertiary theme might be that someone can seem pretty cool on the outside and still be a freakin' psychopath on the inside. He doesn't do it, but in the story he seriously contemplates killing his little brother and dumping his body down an old well. Little brother is even more twisted than the villain.    Icky characters are fun to write! :-D 

When a story has a theme it helps hold things together and gives the story direction.

Scotty


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## Cryoforion (Sep 12, 2008)

Eh..."theme" is usually the general topic, or "question" of the story. The message or meaning is the specific thought or "answer."

So, for example:

In your first story, the theme is dreams/coming-of-age. But the message (it sounds to me) is that to reach adulthood, one must often give up the dreams and dependencies of childhood.

In _The Kite Runner_ by Hosseini (<-- shameless plug for an *awesome* book), the theme is redemption--but the message is that no amount of distance or righteousness can cover up an old mistake; redemption is only found in confronting and correcting the sin at its source.

But, that's really more an issue of nomenclature.  Because you're right. Theme (or for me, message) is incredibly important for giving a story direction. I have a hard time writing at all unless I know what it is I'm trying to really _say_.


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## M. LeRenard (Sep 25, 2008)

So what would be some instances when it's not appropriate to include a theme, or are there any?  Or maybe put into a more explosive wording, what if someone just wants to read a book without having to worry about important world affairs?  Would you consider this on a 'lower level' than writing that's not purely for entertainment?


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## wolfthatcr13dboy (Sep 25, 2008)

Philosophy always comes through in my writing, whether I want it to or not. Because I spend so much time thinking about it myself, so too do my characters. Sometimes it's a bit more heavy handed than others, depends entirely on the setting and the way the plot runs.

As to theme, I never much attempted to grasp at one in my writing. There's a feeling behind it, or a memory, or something along those lines. I'm a big fan of improvisation, so my themes generally appear out of the wild blue.

I don't think philosophy *has* to be in a story, so much as it is just a natural side-effect of the act of writing. Being a writer is almost like being a god, in that you create a world and the people who inhabit it, and then you posit questions from them which are really aimed at yourself.

My opinions are a bit slanted here because I haven't slept in sixteen hours.

I agree with michelay that it's best if the main character comes to understand the philosophy by way of natural storyline progression.


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## ScottyDM (Oct 5, 2008)

After carefully reading M. Le Renard's original post, I see that by philosophy he means a lesson to be learned. A phrase he used was, "Message you're trying to get out." *Message is the better term.* This is not the same thing as the theme.


I've been thinking a lot about genre, and I see several ways to examine genre. One way is: where might I find this book in a bookstore? That's a marketing approach. Another is more academic and is useful when discussing a work with other authors, agents, editors, true fans, etc. That is, what is the nature of this story?

Genre comes in levels. That is there are super-genres, genres, and sub-genres. For example a science fiction is a genre while cyber is a sub-genre of science fiction. But the genre of science fiction is a part of the super-genre speculative fiction.

In fact we can split all of fiction into just a few super-genres. We can split it according to the *structure* of the story, in which case we get speculative fiction and realistic fiction--the whole pile of traditional genres fall within these two. Or we can split it according to it's *purpose*, in which case we get fiction written to entertain, and we get instructional/inspirational, etc. In the bookstore you'll see entertainment fiction split into the traditional genres while instructional/inspirational will have it's own sections. *Instructional fiction has a clear message.*

Children's literature is an excellent example of *instructional* fiction, particularly for the pre-teens. Examples of lessons learned (the message) are things like: obey your parents, the importance of friendship, the importance of honesty, etc.

Mythology is, or was, a kind of *instructional* story for adults: how the world arose, the nature of the gods, etc. Fairy tales are also instructional, but typically aimed at younger readers.

*Inspirational* fiction is a little different, but it can also contain *instruction*. There are plenty of religious people who like to read romance, but it darn well better _not_ have the main character engaging in premarital sex. If the main character is a religious person, and if her religion helps her get through life--perfect (*inspiration*). If there is a "bad" character who indulges in premarital sex and some disaster befalls her because of it--so much the better (*instruction*).

Richard Bach writes *inspirational* fiction, although not tied to any particular religious doctrine. Read his _Johnathan Livingston Seagull_ and it leaves you feeling inspired... to what I'm not sure. Maybe, "Never give up," or "Be true to your beliefs," or whatever. Because his books are inspirational, he stands outside the traditional genres and therefore can write any dang thing he wants--which is how he's able to currently write what's essentially *furry fiction* and get it *professionally published*. His fans read something from his new _Ferret Chronicles_ series and they look for the *message*, the *inspiration*, the *philosophy*. Cute ferrets who talk? Many probably don't really notice and most won't care one way or the other. Ahhh, but what's the message? That's the critical question.


On the other hand, if something is sold within a traditional genre *it probably better not contain a clear instructional message or you risk alienating at least some of your readership.* Now if you're really clever at hiding your message you can probably get away with it. Theme? You bet! All stories need a theme... at least if they're worth reading they do.

Ever hear someone tell a story? They drone on about who-knows-what until you want to scream, "Does this story have a point?" *That's what the theme is: the point of the story.*


Let's say you write a story with the *theme* of friendship. You use a negative example and in the end your protag dies, friendless and alone. Readers will subconsciously look for a lesson in your story and different readers will find different lessons. One will conclude that if your protag had only managed his money better he would have kept his friends. Another will realize that to have friends you need to be a friend. And a third will pity the protag for being weak and needing the crutch of friendship.

You can turn this story into *a story with a message* when you write it so that one of those lessons is the one that readers see. But for a story sold as entertainment some readers are going to think you a dope, a sap, or a heartless bastard when they disagree with your message.

If your book is in the "Inspirational Stories for Heartless Bastards" section of the bookstore--philosophize away! Your readership will expect it and only the lost souls who wandered out of the "Feel Good" section would object. Screw them, brainless twizots! That's what they get for being lost.


However, sometimes the author's personal outlook on life will filter into their stories and you'll get some kind of message, even if that's not what you intended.

Scotty


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