# Web Browser



## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 19, 2007)

IE has some negative stuff in it, so I don't think I will be using it.

Firefox is good, although I must agree, it sucks RAM a lot.

Never heard stuff about Opera and Netscape.


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## net-cat (Oct 19, 2007)

Netscape is rebranded-Firefox.
Opera is its own browser, and some people swear by it. Never used it much, myself.


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## Eevee (Oct 19, 2007)

IE is made of fail and its use rather makes my life more difficult  >:|

I use Firefox because I am an open-source hippie and I like to follow its development; interesting things happen.  Also, Firebug.

Netscape is a joke.  Firefox with far too much useless crap tacked on.

Opera is a solid browser, but 90% of its userbase has its collective head up its collective ass.

There's also Safari beta, Konqueror 4 beta, SeaMonkey, K-Meleon, Flock...


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## yak (Oct 19, 2007)

Seamonkey is a very good alternative to FF users unless they can't live without del.icio.us and Firebug; web developer has been ported already. It's very fast and sort of stable, and didn't seem to suffer from gecko memory leaks too much.
Sadly, i'm one of such people that can't imagine working without Firebug.


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## FreerideFox (Oct 19, 2007)

you could also try maxthon I used it for a little while but got pissed at it. Firefox uses less ram than IE. my firefox uses a lot of ram, but I'm sticking with firefox forever because of my add-ons and themes. I use Opera as my yiff browser, ahh, full screen F11 works so nice for images  hit the + button if you need a _bigger_ view


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## Eevee (Oct 19, 2007)

Maxthon is a wrapper around IE and thus also made of fail.

Opera, Firefox, and even IE all use F11 for full-screen  ?_?

If you really need browser mods for your murrpurring: http://www.squarefree.com/pornzilla/


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## yak (Oct 19, 2007)

re: link.. 

WHAT


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## DavidN (Oct 19, 2007)

Ow, my browser.

Most people will tell you to use Firefox. Right enough it doesn't follow _all_ standards, and its memory leaks can be annoying. But it isn't Internet Explorer, and that is good enough for me. (By not using it, you're doing the web developers of the world a great favour in a small way.)


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## Ailure (Oct 19, 2007)

That pornzilla site have been around for ages. :LOL: And the extensions listed are useful for more than porn too. 

I heard that Firefox memory usage is dependant on how much memory you have. Apparently using up more cache if you have a huge amount of memory. There's still some memory leak problems, but they're only really noticeable when I been running at days for me.


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## Eevee (Oct 19, 2007)

Urgh.

Memory usage is not quite so simple a problem as '$leak_memory = false;'.


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## Janglur (Oct 20, 2007)

I've had nothing but problems with Firefox, especially lately.

IE has actually proven most reliable, along with Opera.

Netscape is a fucking joke.


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## Tomtenizze (Oct 22, 2007)

I must say I prefer Opera, it's nice looking, can be customized quite a lot and it have some nice and well working extras, like an IRC, e-mail and newsreader client. It also have a Text-to-Speech function that works very well (english only)


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## darkdoomer (Oct 22, 2007)

firefox eating ram  ?
no, your startup-loading crap and superfluity services eats ram. 
im with 512 megs of ram on this laptop. firefox, trillian, winamp runing, and i could even shoop some picture if i want =)
but still , i agree. avoid iexplore/msn/outlook like aids.


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## Janglur (Oct 22, 2007)

Nope, it's firefox.  The thing consumes >40 MB on load, fresh install on a new PC.  It's just a hog these days.

Opera is like FF if it were uglier but more efficient.



Netscape is like Roseanne Barr.  And Internet Explorer is like OJ Simpson.

Opera is perhaps my all-time favorite browser.  Shame I can't use it for half the stuff I want.  Like work.


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## hypr (Oct 22, 2007)

I like Firefox, I use it over IE as it seems to run faster I also use ADBlock Plus to block all ads, (you may have to change a few settings for it to work properly on FA.)


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## Eevee (Oct 22, 2007)

darkdoomer said:
			
		

> no, your startup-loading crap and superfluity services eats ram.
> im with 512 megs of ram on this laptop. firefox, trillian, winamp runing, and i could even shoop some picture if i want =)


I have to say I would usually put Trillian in that category.



			
				Janglur said:
			
		

> Nope, it's firefox.  The thing consumes >40 MB on load, fresh install on a new PC.  It's just a hog these days.


"These days"?  Praytell, when were these magical golden times when the Gecko engine only used three bytes per open page?

Gecko uses a lot of RAM.  Sorry.  Feel free to fix it.


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## Rhainor (Oct 22, 2007)

Eevee said:
			
		

> Gecko uses a lot of RAM.  Sorry.  Feel free to fix it.



:lol:  Ah, the wonders of Open-Source Software...


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## Eevee (Oct 22, 2007)

Well, that's kinda the idea.  You have the source, free tools, and the pickable brains of people who know the code.  Put up or shut up.


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## net-cat (Oct 23, 2007)

Eevee said:
			
		

> Well, that's kinda the idea.  You have the source, free tools, and the pickable brains of people who know the code.  Put up or shut up.



You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.


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## Eevee (Oct 23, 2007)

How much I'm joking depends on how much whining I've heard lately  8)


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## CyberFoxx (Oct 23, 2007)

I tend to switch between Firefox and Konqueror. I used to use Opera way back in the 4.x days, even paid for a license, but then they changed the interface, and I just stopped using it and switched over to Mozilla Suite. The Linux port of Opera isn't bad, but I still don't like it's interface.


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## DragonKid (Oct 23, 2007)

darkdoomer said:
			
		

> firefox eating ram  ?
> no, your startup-loading crap and superfluity services eats ram.
> im with 512 megs of ram on this laptop. firefox, trillian, winamp runing, and i could even shoop some picture if i want =)



I guess I need to show you my Firefox ram usage record:







That's with 1 gig of ram on my system and after using it for a few days.
As of right now, my Trillian install is using about 6 megs, while Firefox is using 110 megs and I just launched it about 30 minutes ago.


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## net-cat (Oct 23, 2007)

Heh. Wow. I'm impressed.

Mine's about 85MB, right now.


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## Eevee (Oct 23, 2007)

Days of use with a small pile of extensions on a trunk build and 40+ tabs open at all times while developing on an AJAX-heavy app rarely even gets me to 200.  You're doing it wrong.

What version/extensions/activity?


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## yak (Oct 23, 2007)

You just leave it opened for two weeks, and you get to see your RAM consumed. 
Here's an example,
http://www.furaffinity.net/yak/images/screenshots/ff_way_too_much_mem.png

Nothing much installed on that FF, just the regular ADBlock/Firebug/LiveHTTPHeaders/Colorzilla web developer kit, and the rest is done by bookmarklets.


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## Eevee (Oct 23, 2007)

Firebug eats RAM like Gabe Newell eats donuts.  Turn off network monitoring on its Network tab and see what happens.


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## Zestence (Oct 23, 2007)

Opera all the way, has the best interface (imo), and i like the transfers tab for downloading stuff. Also features email and irc clients. Its faster than ie, and has quite many nice functions like speed dial (i use it every day). I dont really know about mozilla since i havent installed it on my new computer, and never will, because i already have tons of bookmarks in opera.


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## Eevee (Oct 23, 2007)

I never understood the allure of Speed Dial.  I can just use a bookmark toolbar or write my own home page.

Also, it is certainly possible to convert bookmarks from one browser's format to another, although I don't know why you'd need to if you just wanted to try one out.


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## DragonKid (Oct 24, 2007)

Eevee said:
			
		

> Days of use with a small pile of extensions on a trunk build and 40+ tabs open at all times while developing on an AJAX-heavy app rarely even gets me to 200.  You're doing it wrong.
> 
> What version/extensions/activity?



That was after 3-4 days of use with just 1 tab open at the time.  The version was 2.0.0.7 at the time the screenshot was taken. 2.0.0.8 seems to have fixed this issue as I haven't had any runaway memory issues all day.  As for the extensions, I have:
Adblock plus, CustomizeGoogle, DownloadHelper, Flashgot, Google toolbar, Minimizetotray, reload every, smart digg button, and super drag and go.

I do admit that these may cause some issues, but I use every single one of them.  I usually have about 5 tabs open at the most.  Currently, Firefox is using about 195 MB with just 2 tabs open.


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## Rhainor (Oct 24, 2007)

Why anyone would want to leave their web browser running for days (let alone weeks) on end, I'll never understand.


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## Eevee (Oct 24, 2007)

DragonKid said:
			
		

> As for the extensions, I have:
> Adblock plus, CustomizeGoogle, DownloadHelper, Flashgot, Google toolbar, Minimizetotray, reload every, smart digg button, and super drag and go.


Hum.  Only known problem amongst those is Flashgot < 0.5.9.995 combined with Filterset.G Updater.



			
				DragonKid said:
			
		

> I do admit that these may cause some issues, but I use every single one of them.  I usually have about 5 tabs open at the most.  Currently, Firefox is using about 195 MB with just 2 tabs open.


Okay, yeah, that's ridiculous.  Fresh start should be ~70 at the most.  Try running in safe mode once and see what happens.



			
				Rhainor said:
			
		

> Why anyone would want to leave their web browser running for days (let alone weeks) on end, I'll never understand.


I leave lots of software running for weeks on end: a console, a text editor, IM/IRC clients, SSH clients, email client, music player, maybe a SQL client, assorted folders.  If I have no reason to close it, I generally won't.


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## yak (Oct 24, 2007)

Rhainor said:
			
		

> Why anyone would want to leave their web browser running for days (let alone weeks) on end, I'll never understand.



My PC is an internet gateway and NFS server for my home network, plus i have the standard HTTP/FTP server running to get my stuff from other places - so it's never really turned off.
I see no reason to clean my desktop when i walk away from that PC, just to re-open it again when i come back. Besides, just as Eevee does, i have a number of shells|editors|apps open that connect to remote places. The browser is one of them.


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## darkdoomer (Oct 24, 2007)

DragonKid said:
			
		

> darkdoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



haHAHAHAHAHA! oh wow, i'm saving this pic. ram crowded with vista, startup tasks and tons of spyware/helpers.

thanks for your post.

( me: win2003 on a 512megs athlon64 laptop... )


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## net-cat (Oct 24, 2007)

Wow. For once, Firefox isn't the program using the most memory on my system...

That honor goes to MATLAB.


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## DragonKid (Oct 25, 2007)

darkdoomer said:
			
		

> haHAHAHAHAHA! oh wow, i'm saving this pic. ram crowded with vista, startup tasks and tons of spyware/helpers.



Actually, I am spyware and virus free.  My RAM usage right now is 74%, with Firefox coming out on top, followed by svchost (system restore), and then iTunes.  That pic shows one of the rare instances that my ram is 90+% used.  It also shows what my system resources are like when ALL of my required programs are running.


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## fastturtle (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm going to jump in on the Firefox memory needs. First off, Firefox will use by default 50 megs to start with on any system with more then 256 megs of RAM. Now there are several tweaks that can be used to change that behavior. Simply google for Firefox memory tweaks.

As to extensions have memory leaks, adblock plus still hasn't solve one of my biggest problems with it, boosts firefox startup mem needs by 20-40 megs. 

I've include a snapshot of my firefox mem needs. Note that I'm using Linux and what's being report as VM Size is total memory reserverd. The number on the right is what's actually being used and it's not what Windows shows you. Just total memory committed, even if the app doesn't use all of it.These numbers are with 6 tabs open, Noscript, Beagle-Index, Adblock (not adblock plus), unhide menubar and fav-icon. The rest of them don't use any memory until I actually use them.

Probably the biggest surprise is that Noscript and Adblock do the most to minimize the mem usage of Firefox. They also block almost all the garbage that tries to install (hijacks/malware) along with Flash and don't get me started on flash sites or I'll start foaming at the mouth again.

As to Opera, I've used it but the big issue is to many damn sites are designed for IE as yet. Heck even Google doesn't fully support the thing and it's the only fully Compliant W3C browser out there, which says lots about IE's dominance. What I don't like about Opera is the fact it's not just a browser but includes Email, Newsreader, BT client and several more things I don't want/need in my browser.

My alternatives to Firefox include Dillo and Konq in KDE. I also use Links when I need to operate strictly from the console. Hell it works fine and does exactly what I need, which is why I use it but I'm finding Dillo to be pretty useful and with a much smaller footprint then many others.


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## Xipher (Nov 7, 2007)

I figured I'd post my screen shots after reading this, there will be a short explanation of what each one is.

This is *TYPICAL* usage for me on the following system in usually less than 10 days running time for Firefox...

Dual Opterons
6GB ram
Windows XP 64bit (I can't live in a 4GB world)

I remember having flash blocker installed, that was really it, I hadn't even discovered the wonderful world that is Firefox plug ins at this point in time, this is also from version 2.0.0.6, I'm on 2.0.0.9 right now and its exactly the same, nothing has changed.

The usual task manager view, note the memory delta and its CPU usage, I've found that once it gets to this point, you can close EVERY window and point the only open one to a blank local page and it will continue to use 10-15% cpu and it continues to eat ram very slowly, I usually just close it at this point (sometimes 20 days, sometimes 10 days, sometimes less than a week) because it will just "disappear" without an error once it reaches about 1.5gb physical ram usage





Here is it, sitting idle after about 10-15 days of use, typical usage, see the continued CPU usage and the continued I/O operations although its idle, displaying no content.






More numbers to take a look at 





I cant switch, or I would, I recently discovered "Web-Developer" and a few other simpler plug ins I use continually.  It doesn't matter if I frustrate myself for 15-20 days by running it with no plug ins, or just let it run its course, it always gets up to about the same usage in the same amount of time and slows to an absolute crawl before imploding in on its self.  I've used Safari 3 Beta, and was really impressed, its solid, uses very little ram, its so quick, its color correction for images is great and in general everything works great, the only thing keeping me from using it is that it lacks the plug ins I now use on Firefox, that, and in my screwing around with it, I manage to make it stick at using 48-50% cpu after a few days heavy usage, even after closing every other window/tab.  It doesn't slow Safari down when that happens, but it is VERY ANNOYING...

Anyways, this sorta supports the whole "the more ram you give it, the more it uses" deal, my laptop with 1gb does NOT rack up 1gb of memory usage on firefox given 10-15 days use...


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## Eevee (Nov 8, 2007)

Dear lord what are you doing.  Firefox is not designed to take a gig of ram, ever, period.

I guess try a fresh profile or the 3.0 beta.


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## TheRedRaptor (Nov 8, 2007)

I surf on a Flash card with Portable Firefox 2.0


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## Tachyon (Nov 9, 2007)

I use Konqueror for everything that works (which is almost everything, including FA, but not FAP I've noticed). For everything else, there's Firefox.


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## Ron Overdrive (Nov 9, 2007)

In the address bar type *about:config*. Right click anywhere and choose *New -> Boolean*. Enter *config.trim_on_minimize* then hit enter. Select *True* then restart FireFox. You should notice a decrease in memory usage. Watched FireFox for me go from 75mb on start to 34mb.


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## Eevee (Nov 9, 2007)

What?  All that does is let Windows swap out Firefox's used memory when it's minimized.


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## Ron Overdrive (Nov 9, 2007)

Yeah its weird, but from periodically checking on Firefox's memory usage it is using less memory when its not minimized. And when you minimize it the memory usage plummets and continues using less when you maximize it.


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## Janglur (Nov 10, 2007)

As Eevee said earlier..

Memory management isn't as east as </leak>.  Or something to that effect.
It's late and i'm hungry.  *Grumblegrumble*


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## Ron Overdrive (Nov 10, 2007)

Hey say what you will, I saw this work for me so I thought I would share. Besides we still don't know what kind of extensions they're running as many are memory hogs themselves (some in combination with others cause memory leaks).


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## Janglur (Nov 10, 2007)

I didn't say it wouldn't work, I was just saying the reason Firefox leaks isn't a simple one to explain.


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## Eevee (Nov 11, 2007)

Firefox actually leaks very little.


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