# What does the community think?



## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

If this site and community, not to mention simple morals and decency, mean something to you, please read. If not, keep walking.

Short Version: After hindering this site tirelessly since he was removed from the staff, Arcturus' most recent hack attempt has been rewarded by being unbanned and made an unofficial member of staff in the respect that he will be trusted to point out the holes he finds rather than just hack them as he has done for the past year and a half. 

Details and brief history Follow:

When Arcturus was part of the staff, he did a lot of good for the site. He asked to have a bit more executive control of the site as appreciation for such, or he would leave. Specifically, the fight that was the last straw was over him banning Oz for being a bad moderator (in Arc's opinion). Jheryn said no, Arcturus left. 

For those that weren't aware, that was the cause of that first big downtime that took FA months to recover from, and it was the beginning of the grudge that has been the cause of every major downtime and hack attempt since.

Arcturus has hacked the site many times. I have one source who says that every single hack attempt on the site has been either Arcturus or one of his ArtPlz minions. Another source says there have been many hacks that were from people completely unassociated with Arcturus. There are two sides of that story, but neither side can deny that Arcturus HAS been solely responsible for, if not all, then the majority of the hacks that have denied this community use of this wonderful service.

Arcturus (among others) brought us ChanPlz. A site that refused to acknowledge any DNP requests. People could post any artwork from any artist, and if the artist showed up to protest, they were freely bashed and ridiculed. ChanPlz was taken down. Respect for personal creator wishes, or even simple copyright law, was completely non-existent. Unless you could prove to THEIR satisfaction that you were losing money over it, they gave you the bird.

Arcturus is credited for being behind WTFur. A similar site to ChanPlz, which came about after ChanPlz was removed, not for reasons of decency and respect, but as a PR move to try and save ArtPlz's image. WTFur was also built on a solid foundation of "fuck artists' rights and wishes."

The first of the recent Admin Lock modes was due to yet another hack by Arcturus. He took over Dragoneer's account, banned a user he had a personal gripe with, made nasty remarks in Dragoneer's name, and then told the staff 'I'll tell you how I did this and help you fix it if you unban me and let me help work on the site.'

The staff gave in to this demand which aside from being yes, "lol intarbutts", is still, by definition, terrorism and blackmail.

The "official" stance is that Arcturus is not "official" staff. He is merely allowed to play his hacking games on the condition that he reports holes he finds and helps close them.

There is nothing more than good faith in Arcturus' trustworthiness holding him to actually report any holes he finds whatsoever.

Arcturus has demonstrated not only a complete disregard for the interests of this site and it's community, but an absolutely unhealthy obsession with interfering with it whenever the mood may strike him. He has established a complete disregard for the concepts of respect or decency towards artists, their rights and wishes, and people in general. ANY suggestion that he can even remotely be trusted can only come from either friends an supporters of his past destructive actions, or people who are not aware of his long and rather pathetic history of attacking this community.

Now, Arcturus is unbanned, acting as a "white-hat" for the site, supposedly reporting holes he finds. As a reminder, he has considered all his hacks as "helping" in that he simply chose that method to point out the holes he found. The administration is simply trusting his word that he will actually report the holes he finds, and there is nothing whatsoever keeping him from doing what he has already done time and time again.

ONE Admin solidly and firmly stood against giving the message of disrespect to the community that it would be to allow this person to even be unofficial staff. One Admin believed that defending the site against Arcturus' hack attempts was simply part of the job, and that giving in to his blackmail demands would send a horribly clear message to the entire community that the single most maliciously destructive user FA has ever had can be made staff as a reward for once again denying this community the use of THEIR site. That one Admin is the only one who has ALWAYS taken a firm and solid stance in the name of defending the peaceful and productive members of the community against those who are here simply to harass and deconstruct any progress they can.

Arc has been made an unofficial off-the-books staffmember as a debugger. The Admin who was more in favor of dealing with the extra effort of keeping his threat out as a way of showing his respect to the members of this community that Arcturus has done nothing but disrespect has been the target of not only the majority of the people attacking this entire community, but also is under fire from his fellow staffmembers for doing nothing more than trying to defend this community from those who the rest of the staff seem afraid to piss off.

Defending this community should be at the exclusion of those who compromise the well-being of the community. One of the Admins gets this, and takes the heat that comes with it. Almost all the rest of the staff also seems to be in favor of cutting back on the bullshit, but are either afraid of the backlash that the troublemakers cause, or are held back by the very few members of staff who seem to feel that a problem isn't a problem until AFTER people are duking it out over it.

If you feel in any way connected to this site and community, and feel there is something wrong with the staff discussing firing Myr, a staffmember who was willing to continue to put forth the effort to fight Arcturus' hackings and E-terrorism, while simultaneously welcoming back into the community the single greatest individual cause of community upset, please speak up.


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## Zero (Aug 17, 2006)

i would like this asshat perma banned please, if you dont mind ;3, i personaly like the site the way it is and think Myr is doing a grand job.


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## BlackTail (Aug 17, 2006)

i agree, Myr is only doing his job to help us


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## Litre (Aug 17, 2006)

You like holes? You like hackers worse than Arc to tear your precious FA apart like a ragged boy by a vicar? Yeah. You like your FA to be helped? You want it up? This e-terrorist is offering help, and you go insane. If you wanted to do FA any good, you'd shut your piehole and let the admins do their business. If  anything bad happened, only THEN you could go on a rampage against them and start another holy war.


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## Ruffy (Aug 17, 2006)

what? wow as far as their reasoning goes it makes no sense but Myr is great leave him do his job =^.^= and if indeed arcturus does the job they ask then i haven't a problem with him coming back

and this is somthing bad Litre, i dont mind that arc com back but fireing Myr is a bit much


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## TehSean (Aug 17, 2006)

Wolfblade is asking his friends to reply to this.

I was given this message:

"ThatWolfbladeGuy: I have a HUGE favor to ask that would absolutely mean the world to me. If you could just take 5 minutes, register for the FA forums, and respond:

http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2706

I am asking everyone on my buddy list, and as much as I know everyone hates forum drama, I am only asking for the time to sign up, read it, and back me up if you agree with me. If you don't agree, then I apologise, and please don't say anything. There will be no shortage of people disagreeing, this is just really one of those things where I need my friends to support me here, or at the very least just ignore my latest crusade and forgive the bother.

" at 6:10:16 PM (Pacific Standard Time)

Yes, it's related. Yes, it's important to state that. It's a side that most people will not see, so why not let them get a clearer image?


As for this post's original intent: I do not care.

edit: Why I was given a message is beyond me since I never figured that he liked me much.


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## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

Zero said:
			
		

> i would like this asshat perma banned please, if you dont mind ;3, i personaly like the site the way it is and think Myr is doing a grand job.





			
				BlackTail said:
			
		

> i agree, Myr is only doing his job to help us



Read again. They're talking about firing Myr for doing such a great job. And I think that sucks.


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## snowcloud7983 (Aug 17, 2006)

I find it hard to believe such a predicament could have happened to the point where a person is rewarded for causing harm. It is appauling to say the least. It is something that could only be put to past experiences, where kings would ally themselves with a stronger enemy only to not be attacked themselves. It is completely unreal and unfair to those that try everyday to stop it. It is like spitting in the faces of those that tried to protect this place. Having to now listen to someone that should not have any say in any business this place has to begin with. To give a person like that, even the smallest amount of power, is one of the most idiotic and cruel moves that a person can do. I am not sure what they were thinking when they let this guy in as an "unofficial" anything, but to allow him to continue to do this so he can "find the holes in the system" is, to put it bluntly, STUPID!! I know I am not a known speaker and I usually only like to read. But this is just something that shouldn't have been done to begin with, and then to try to fire the guy that was actually doing the right thing? It is like saying what he did was nothing, and are trying to protect him. I just can't believe that they would just cave in like that and give him that type of position. But this is just me talking. Sorry if I seem like I am ranting.


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

Hmm this all seems rather unrational. Mry does his job and does it well. I dont see the reason behind unbanning Arc and giving him admin to purely show holes in the site. He should however take in what he has done and apologise for what attempts he has done and by telling the coders where the holes are and how they are being exploited. As for trust. Well for somone to turn with such agression purely suggests that they are untrustworthy. Also I would consider this change in mood to have an alternate motive behind it. It just seems too.. quick and simple.

Admins should be weary.


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## Dragoon_of_Light (Aug 17, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> You like holes? You like hackers worse than Arc to tear your precious FA apart like a ragged boy by a vicar? Yeah. You like your FA to be helped? You want it up? This e-terrorist is offering help, and you go insane. If you wanted to do FA any good, you'd shut your piehole and let the admins do their business. If  anything bad happened, only THEN you could go on a rampage against them and start another holy war.



Why don't you just SHUT THE H*** UP?! I'm sick and tired of people like you bashing people for reasons like this. If you don't like it, go somewhere else and rant about it. We don't need people like you here.

On the other hand, I personally agree with Wolfblade. Arcturus should NOT be allowed to remain on FA, no matter WHAT his intentions. Hacking is just wrong, and it shows that some guy has nothing better to do than mess with other people. I think Myr is doing a better job than Arc is. Let hmi stay.


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## Ruffy (Aug 17, 2006)

my main concern is that fa will turn into Y! where all the admins were immature and treated everyone like that name tag meant somthing, i realise this site is free and i coudn't be more thankful but i can't help thinking that the position of admin is to serve the needs of the site over those of indiviudal people, if brining arc back will do that then awesome, but we all know that firing Myr will not be helpful and will probably be harmful


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## dbruin (Aug 17, 2006)

That doesn't seem like the smartest way to deal with someone who constantly disables a site and harrasses the community...


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## Kaji Ryuuko (Aug 17, 2006)

Ok, let me get this straight. They fired Myr for doing his job, doing his job greatly as a matter of fact. That is...just plain stupid. I mean that's like firing the president for passing a law, expelling a student from high school for learning, killing someone on death row for donating to charity. It doesn't make sense! 

In the case of Arcturus, he was sent to perma-ban status. Now if the admins forgot what permanent means! Let me show the definition! 

per·ma·nent  Pronunciation Key  (pûrm-nnt)
adj.

   1. Lasting or remaining without essential change: 
   2. Not expected to change in status, condition, or place

There's my two cents! Like it or lump it!


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

Its like.. voting Osama for president in the hope he will know more about terrorism.. its just.. retarded?


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## Lodoss-12 (Aug 17, 2006)

Ok It's Like I said to Myr about This crybaby Arc

Arc is a VIRUS to FA. He's a spoiled brat who belives if he cant run things, No one gonna use it. so what does he do? He HACKS FA So Everyone suffers. And what do these admins do? THEY MAKE HIM A Debugger!?

Im Sorry But the Admins are being Too lazy in dealing with a SERIOUS Issue pertaining to the well-being of FA it's self, beause giving him even the SLIGHTEST bit of authority is BAD on too many levels to me.


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

I think this topic should be made a header on the actual FA site. 
Im sure its well aware that only a very small percent read these forums compared to the site.


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## Silver Fenrir (Aug 17, 2006)

I say just wait...  If it gets ugly in the future, then I reckon there'll be an exodus.  Again.

  But, for now, let's just wait this out and see where it goes.


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## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

Silver Fenrir said:
			
		

> I say just wait...  If it gets ugly in the future, then I reckon there'll be an exodus.  Again.
> 
> But, for now, let's just wait this out and see where it goes.



I'm personally tired of the exodus routine that waiting seems to promote. Rather than wait for him to do again what he's already done repeatedly, I say stop ignoring the past and learn from it.

Learn, and Move On. That doesn't mean forget what people have made themSELVES known for.


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## cesarin (Aug 17, 2006)

Im fully against arcturus and his constant "I need to have the spotlight always" kindof behavior..

let's face it, once he gets bored, he will ask for MORE.
and I bet if the current admin team refuses, he will have more than enought weapons to fire  and destroy FA..

re-accepting arcturus is a completely pathetic, and their "help buddies" in the admin team are showing equally pathetic excuses to accept him back.

I just hope preyfarkeeps things working . because if Arcturus did take FA down once,he will do MANY TIMES..regardless of what....  his childish behavior will let force him to do so.

I wouldnt be surprised if he uses his acknowledge to atack people who has grudges or showed their opinion against him..
hell I woudlnt be surprised if he's targetting kurtz and others already.(including me )


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

cesarin said:
			
		

> I just hope preyfarkeeps things working . because if Arcturus did take FA down once,he will do MANY TIMES..regardless of what....  his childish behavior will let force him to do so.


Oh, I will... I know people assume we don't know what we're doing, but we do. It's hard to explain things right now, I know. =/


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## lightfox (Aug 17, 2006)

Well, i remember most of these events to have taken place indeed. Arcturus's past is accusing him and shows that he's not really trustworthy. He should proove his good will by stopping attacking the site for a time before claiming he genuinely wants to help.

Not to mention to just for the principle, he shouldn't be associated with people who are working for the community whereas he's constantly trying to attack it.


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## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> I think this topic should be made a header on the actual FA site.
> Im sure its well aware that only a very small percent read these forums compared to the site.



Quoted for truth.

Since people seem fond of killing positive progress by making Y!G comparisons, I'd like to point out that their big booboo was doing something so many users disagreed with becaue they felt they had no other choice, but never bothered to ASK the users for alternatives. 

Inform your community of the facts of Arcturus' history, the problem he represents and causes, the fact that his unbanning was in response to blackmail, and see what they think of letting him back in.

Put this publicly on the site, and see if the reaction is a bit different than the usual voice of the people who have managed to weed most dissent for them out of these forums.


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## Litre (Aug 17, 2006)

have you any wool...

Arc is not. NOT.

READ AGAIN.

NOT.

...an admin.

Dragoon of Light: No, you be quiet, and keep a civil tongue. Do you realise a lot of companies hire *experienced* hackers to work for them? Yes, because they actually lend aid into further securing their networks, even in the most unorthodox and creative ways.



> Its like.. voting Osama for president in the hope he will know more about terrorism.. its just.. retarded?



wow, that sort of...is? I do you were trying to make it a point of voting another president, in hopes of having a person already experienced as a president? In either case, you botched up.


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## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

Why do you have to use such big words Wolfblade, and elaborate so much when what you are trying to say is very simple?

-------------------------------------------------------------
Arcturus has hacked FA on multiple occasions and forced the site to be closed. I think he is a bad person and will be detrimentle to this community because he will crack up the site again and bring on more downtimes. Dragonmyr did not agree with the other admins and was ousted, what do you people think?
--------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that what you are trying to say? It's a lot easier to read and when you are trying to get a general opinion it's better to make things short so everyone reads it. Try to stick to facts as well.


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## millerjsullivan (Aug 17, 2006)

*Doesn't Sound Good*



			
				TehSean said:
			
		

> Wolfblade is asking his friends to reply to this.
> 
> I was given this message:
> 
> (rest deleted)



Well obviously he isn't asking only his friends, because you don't seem to like him much. ^^

Still, I think if someone cares about problems enough to try to get people involved, this is a healthy sign. If people did this all the time (how dare we be interrupted from our valueble video-gaming and porn for political issues!!) it could certainly get annoying.


This is not a drama-issue or directly related to furry fandom, by the way. These kinds of mechinations are part and parcel to human history, and stuff like this is happening elsewhere too, in and outside of the furry scene. I'm sure there is stuff like this in some Shakesperian plays.

But the problem has to be dealt with. Society is a series of institutions... some official and some unnoficial. When helpful/friendly or workaholic (but not neccesarily friendly or unfriendly) people are the ones who keep institutions running, things run smoothly and people can be happy. However, when virilant, harmful, cruel, uncaring and destructive individuals are involved in the running of instuitutions - through theft, trickery, coercion and blackmail - it spreads and affects everyone. It will rot your whole system from the inside out, from top to bottom.

With no safe places to post quality original art, and no respect for artists basic wishes, there will be no more new high quality art at all, just "reprints" of the same old stuff. It will spread to the non-furry places to... to everywhere, everything. It will all turn to shit, and nothing will have any intrinsic or emotional value. Look at the Soviet Union (or any place run by the local Mafia or crime gangs) as an example. That's about the worst-case scenario. I think all societies are at risk, to some extent, from these kinds of people having power. If we ordinary people cannot control ourselves and the institutions we have influence over, then someday "strong men" will be called in to do it for us, and freedom will die, wars will be faught.

Destructive hacking (as opposed to non-destructive exploratory/learning-based hacking - also called "modding") is a threat to the entire Internet, since any insecure server is a launch-point for attacks on other servers, and so on. It is therefore (unfortunatly) the concern of law enforcement if this is allowed to go on, and if administrators allow criminal activity to continue while being fuilly aware of it's existance, they will be held responsible before the law. An untrustworthy or unauthorized, malicious staff person is a pretty big security hole in itself. It's worse because everyone is aware of it, as opposed to cases of not knowing it exists.

The currency of fandom is desire and creativity. Sociopathic individuals try to control these things a number of ways. One way is to hold power over artists, to take their work and do with it as one pleases, or to even blackmail them into doing what they want. And for those who hate furry fandom or who hate "porn" (it's usually the kind of porn, and not porn in general), they can only control such people with abuse and terrorism - try to make it so hard for them to be happy with themselves and what they personally like that they are forced to "work for the man" and do the usual "normal" (but unsatisfying and ultimatly stupid) stuff. I don't think it is in anyone but the most mediocre personalities interests to see fandoms becomes corrupted or die. With no way to be happy in modern leasure class/industrial society, people will become increasingly cruel and destructive, stupified and antisocial.


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

Admin or not. I would not have him helping stop what he has begun.


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## Litre (Aug 17, 2006)

Okay, so you'd rather have him possibly bring down FA entirely because you're scathingly against him voluntarily helping?

Great logic.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> Admin or not. I would not have him helping stop what he has begun.


Arcturus has helped close a bad exploit and we managed to close several more. We are watching him and monitoring the situation.


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

Surely you dont need Arc to help find holes?


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## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> Surely you dont need Arc to help find holes?



Yeah but this way they gain a helper and lose an enemy, so it's two birds with one stone.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> Surely you dont need Arc to help find holes?


In this situation there was already a bug and we worked together to insure it was properly closed.


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me. 
Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.


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## RainbowEyes (Aug 17, 2006)

Help... Destroy... Uhuh... I've given up on Furaffinity. Enjoy the sesspool. I expect you to be whining about shit within a week or two. Someone who hates the site so much being allowed back in... Uhuh... Dragoneer, you're going to ban me for this, but you have actually made a horrible mistake. You're going to break the site. So... Congrats...

Not like my words mean anything... I'll just get bashed and flamed...


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me.
> Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.


There is an alterior motive, correct.

And nothing is going to happen to FA. Right now I have a second server being put together right now that's running off of an AMD Athlon 3200 64 with over half a TB of space. It'll take full nightly backups to ensure even if FA's server bursts into flames we'll be ok.

My only interest is in protecting the interest of the site and the community and I would not do anything that I didn't feel would benefit the site long term. I understand that's a vague answer, but at this point it's the best I can give.


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## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> Somthing still doesnt make sense. Why the sudden change in heart? I still cant help feeling there is an alternate motive. But hey, thats me.
> Last thing I want to see is somthing god awful happen to FA.



They felt backed into a corner facing the choice of 'let arc help and trust him not to pull the same shit yet again' or 'let him keep hacking.'

The staff needs to know that there could always be the option of trying to remove him as a threat >without< giving him what he wants.

Ask the community for help hiring a professional to plug up the holes, or you know, since the stuff he's done is kinda not legal, maybe get the law involved.

He IS being sued over the whole WTFur thing I hear, so maybe a person under legal action for ignoring artist rights shouldn't be so openly accepted by an art community. Nevermind what he has done to that community himself.

Arcturus is not the only coder in the world, nor is he the greatest. This is not a two-option situation. One of the many many other options is Hire someone BETTER than him. And maybe listen more to the people who completely disapprove of attacks on your community a little more than people who seem to find Arc's past behavior trivial, acceptable, or even funny more than anything else.


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## Pave (Aug 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Arcturus has helped close a bad exploit and we managed to close several more. We are watching him and monitoring the situation.



You couldn't watch and monitor him before this happend? I mean, just slap an lawsuit on him. >_>

I'm so glad that someone that doesn't respect artists, and thats getting sued because of that, is helping you guys out! =D </sarcasm>

Now, if you don't mind I'm going to try to rob a bank over and over, because surely I'll get hired on as a gaurd if I do it enough.

Also, I'm pretty sure, he was the only person "smart" enough to find those holes. Has anyone else besides him actually done as much damage as he has? He's helping fix the things he's broke >_>


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> They felt backed into a corner facing the choice of 'let arc help and trust him not to pull the same shit yet again' or 'let him keep hacking.'


There is quite a bit more to it than that, I'm afraid.

And we know Arcturus is not the only coder in the world. He's not even a coder for FA. Or an admin. Or a moderator. If anything, he's under probation in a sense.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Pave said:
			
		

> You couldn't watch and monitor him before this happend? I mean, just slap an lawsuit on him. >_>


It's hard to slap a lawsuit on somebody overseas. It's not exactly like we're flowing with money out of our collective nipples. God, I wish that were true!  I'd just get in there with my t---

*stares*

Ok, right, keep things PG, Dragoneer.

*cough*


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## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> MaLaKa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I at least, am not questioning your devotion to the site. It's even obvious that you really did feel this was the best move, and given your reasons why, it's understandable that you would feel that way.

What I'm saying here, and people seem to be backing up, is that you just made a mistake in thinking this was your only option.

Let the community see if they can give you a better one.

Because dude, giving in to blackmail is NEVER the _best_ solution, even if it might be the _easiest._


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## InvaderPichu (Aug 17, 2006)

Wasn't there already a thread like this?


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## XeNoX (Aug 17, 2006)

InvaderPichu said:
			
		

> Wasn't there already a thread like this?



like 2 or 3, but the more the merrier I guess [/sarcasm]


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## whitewolfsasuke5 (Aug 17, 2006)

well, im not a regular here, but i will say a few things. 

i left fur affinity in the first place because of one of the hacks that this guy apparently did. its just pure STUPID to keep this guy around. sure its a delicate situation to handle since he's blackmailing people, but still. if he's causing any kind of damage, inside our out of the loop, he should be taken care of. PUT HIM IN JAIL FOR YIFF SAKES. if he's gonna keep pulling this illegal shit then put him in jail! dont keep humoring him and letting him get his way. if the administrators care at ALL about what they administrate, they wont let this continue. this guy keeps ruining what alot of the furry community counts on, and if you administrators are going to let him, then its as much your fault as it is his. GET RID OF HIS BUTT.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Because dude, giving in to blackmail is NEVER the _best_ solution, even if it might be the _easiest._


We weren't blackmailed, and there are other options... we just decided to go with something different. For now. I'm sorry, Wolfblade, but you don't understand the entire situation.

Also, I have to agree with others, this thread should NOT have been opened when there is another one discussing the same topic. I know this is a touchy issue for many people (even us) but let's try not to beat the horse more than we have to.


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## Litre (Aug 17, 2006)

"PUT HIM IN JAIL FOR YIFF SAKES. "

I lol'd.

Apparently blade wasn't satisfied with the topic number. HAVE to get the word out (or paragraphs, should I say).


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## Reilsss (Aug 17, 2006)

Hmm about Arc, I can not say much. I just rember me on something I got told and what is true: "If somebody lies to you onces. You can never trust him anymore, because it could be that he lies to you again." So when Arc did turn again the people on FA and damaged the page. He can do that again. But he also migth behave and do now a better.

To ban him or let him do this undercover thing. Is something I could never choose about. Its also noting a single adming can choose. The site is runed by a team of admins rigth? And this TEAM have to choose what to do and what not. And when 70% of the team agree to let Arc work under cover, then have the other 30% to accept that. Nobody is a single hero, only a team can work well.

About Firring Myr. I'm not sure what the real reason now is that he should go. But I ask you: If a admin should try to fix normal problem (I mean not such big thing like Arc person)... And the admin does this problem fixing..... Why do the other Admins say he do something bad?? 

I don't get that part. As far i heared did Myr do noting evil at all. Its jut his personal oppinion to ban Arc. but I think some other people have a personal oppinion about that to no? So that made him to fly off ???? I dunno. A Admin is suppsoted to fix problems, that stay under his power. A big place like FA causes natrual mess here and there. And when a Admin closes his eyes from that mess and do noting until its basical to late.. then is such a person basical wrong as a Admin in my Eyes.

If Myr did something wrong, I would as the Admin team go to him and first talk about what he did wrong. Why he did wrong and how to handle it in future way better.... 

I dunno if that discussion about him had happen but from the outside it looks he "just" get the buttkick/getting fried. And I'm not sure if that is rigth. 

So to keep it short to say yes or no to firring Myr I would need way more background infromation from diffrent persons.

I just suggest the people with the power in there hands to may talk about it befor removing him. I guess in a clam discusion can bothem sides show up there arguments and understand why things happend as they happend. And then it should be possible to find out a cleaner and better solution.

So now if somebody disagree he migth do, I feeled for me that it should be possible to talk about things befor punishing people the quick hard way.


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## Myr (Aug 17, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> You like holes? You like hackers worse than Arc to tear your precious FA apart like a ragged boy by a vicar? Yeah. You like your FA to be helped? You want it up? This e-terrorist is offering help, and you go insane. If you wanted to do FA any good, you'd shut your piehole and let the admins do their business. If  anything bad happened, only THEN you could go on a rampage against them and start another holy war.





			
				Litre said:
			
		

> Apparently blade wasn't satisfied with the topic number. HAVE to get the word out (or paragraphs, should I say).


And this is the second time now you're posting the same thing. Please, don't make it a third. You've had one good post and 2 bad posts. Let's keep it on the topic at hand.


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## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, Wolfblade, but you don't understand the entire situation.



When the only people who do understand the situation are the ones causing the problems you face, and their buddies that they laughingly share it with who then stifle you from any name-dropping, it is easy to understand why you feel your options so limited, and hard for anyone to be expected to offer any assistance.

I'm curious as to why all the secrecy. Since Arc's actions heavily affect the whole community, how can the community's opinion be expected to be accurate if you don't let them know what's going on? And if the community's opinion doesn't matter, well then that's not what we've been told by you guys.


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> When the only people who do understand the situation are the ones causing the problems you face, and their buddies that they laughingly share it with who then stifle you from any name-dropping, it is easy to understand why you feel your options so limited, and hard for anyone to be expected to offer any assistance.



Please don't interject things that are not there. While I don't agree with that's going on I also know better than to say things like that. It's not some conspiracy.


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## Xax (Aug 17, 2006)

Okay, so now in point-counterpoint to Wolfblade's original post, here is MY view of this whole debacle.

Way way way back in the misty past, FA didn't have an IRC channel and it was still on its first layout, which was dark blue. There was, instead of a IRC channel a flash-based chat app that didn't work very well. Soon after Arc joined the admin team (in a financial sense) he started up a #furaffinity channel on his own tiny IRC server. That original channel is where the group now considered to be the evil ArtPlz hacker trolls etc. We were just some FA users who, y'know, talked. There are a lot of people still around from that time who can't code worth a whit (Kitetsu) and some people who are very very close to the 'generic furry' sterotype (nikuramon) and some people who really aren't furries at all (Nobuyuki) and basically, a lot of other people. (I am the token fanfic author)

So my first interaction with Arc was via him setting up an IRC channel for Furaffinity. He whined a lot on the channel about how the userbase praised Jheryn for all sorts of stuff, while he was ignored or vilified by the userbase. I DISTINCTLY REMEMBER TELLING HIM, AT THIS TIME, THE FOLLOWING: That if he kept acting the way he was acting and Jheryn kept acting the way _he_ was acting (in case no one here has noticed, Arc kind of has attention whore issues), there was going to be some big stupid drama schism.

Over the few months between my oracular prediction and the actual schism, #furaffinity started getting more and more insular: whenever the site went down, there was a gigantic flood of clueless users, which generally annoyed all the _regular_ users. In one particularly amusing (and revealing) example, a few of the clueless users thought the regular users were a troll invasion (we kept mentioned the invasion of users, the regular users are not exactly what you would call 'sociable', etc). Arc eventually created #fa for the 'normal' users and kept #furaffinity for the secret cabal of trolls, which I was sad about .(some of those clueless users had the seed of intelligence inside them! That seed will never grow if we partition them off from all the intellectual discussion!)

Oh right, some time around here I got perma-banned for 'hacking' (I am still waiting for my 'Sorry we used you as a scapegoat for our lousy programming skills!' apology, by the way) the site with ., and Jheryn said XAX IS BANNED AND WILL NEVER EVER BE UNBANNED and then a week later I got unbanned. Just so all y'all talking about how perma-bans should be permanent. On FA, they're really not.

I wasn't _happy_ when aforementioned schism happened, but really, I totally told you all so. So then he moved on to making ArtPlz and I said "Um, this is going to fail and I want no part of this*" and acted as a cheerleader for a new IRC channel that was not #furaffinity or #artplz. And that channel became EVIL TROLL CENTRAL, apparently.

So we've bopped on, gaining a few users and losing a few over the long months on the internet.

And here's where I actually make my point: None of us evil trolls actually agree about anything. I know I don't agree with... really, anyone's political leanings, and Nobuyuki & Arc are (apparently)disgusted by all that talking about fanfiction I do. In fact, the only thing we really agree about is that PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY UNPOPULAR THINGS, which is why we don't really have any intra-channel drama. When we disagree we have long tl;dr discussions that eventually just peter out without anyone getting banned forever. Because we /get along/ even though we disagree about everything. I think the furry fandom could learn a lot from us. 

oh right, this thread was about how Arcturus is an evil hacker or whatever. As previously stated, we're not a hive mind and I hardly know what he's been up to these past few weeks (something about some *chan site? I guess? Is ArtPlz's release date still November?) and I do frown slightly upon the apparent "I will tell you about this bug if you unban me" request-- everyone knows you don't /ask/ to be unbanned, you just create an alternate account via proxy and wait for the admins to realize they were stupid to ban you! ...seriously. The former doesn't feel like a moral resolution to me, the latter does. SHUT UP, I'M ICONOCLASTIC. But hey, Arc could be a big help, if the admin team realizes he does tend to do stupid things to get attention and factors that into their equasions (and I think they do). He's doing the exact same thing he has always been doing on FA (poking it around for hsi own amusement) only now, apparently, they're actually giving him treats for creatively breaking the site (and telling them how) instead of banning him, which generally speaking just makes a person want to /actually/ break the site.

* I did end up writing some of the templates for ArtPlz, and really all I have to say about that is OH GOD I'M SORRY, ZAUSH USED NESTED TABLES I COULD NOT REMOVE THEM ALL. uh. thankfully, ArtPlz failed hard so no one will ever have to see those HTML atrocities.

[EDIT #1] p.s. Oh right, and Wolfblade? Asking random people to support you is only one step removed from sockpuppeting. Try asking #furaffinity or posting a FA journal or basically keeping it in the community.**

** I should point out that not every user of FA is part of the community.

[EDIT #2] p.p.s. I got on IRC and felt I should also touch upon the bum rush posting thing we tend to do. Basically, one of us will link to a thread in IRC and sometimes, we all feel the need to reply to it. Thus, anywhere from two to twelve posts will appear in quick succession on the thread, generally all arguing from different points and using different debate habits.

(my favourite was on Calorath's thread where he posted that all the lurker FA users totally supported him and I replied telling him that the "the lurkers support me in e-mail" tactic/fallacy was really stupid, only to have Nobuyuki post a few minutes later saying "NO THE LURKERS REALLY SUPPORT US IN E-MAIL" and I went 'sdagfjvada' but by the time I read that the thread had been locked. Tangent, woo)


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## kitetsu (Aug 17, 2006)

From what i see the logic that's spooging out of the ones crying foul about Arc is this:

ONCE A CRIMINAL, ALWAYS A CRIMINAL. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY. NO MERCY...

That's what i'm reading.

Really, do any of you even grasp the greater concept of the word "forgiveness"? Try NOT answering that.

Does anyone here also know what the phrase "i backstab because, hey, it's part of my job" is? Try NOT answering THAT also.


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## wut (Aug 17, 2006)

Artplz's release date is still set sometime between Duke Nukem Forever's release and the apocalypse Xax, FYI.

Ps: .


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## Myr (Aug 17, 2006)

Xax said:
			
		

> p.s. Oh right, and Wolfblade? Asking random people to support you is only one step removed from sockpuppeting. Try asking #furaffinity or posting a FA journal or basically keeping it in the community.**
> 
> ** I should point out that not every user of FA is part of the community.


And the entire site does not revolve around the forums and IRC. There are thousands more people on the entire site that have an opinion on this matter and although their opinion is not popular with you and some others it still can get out. Requesting people to join in and voice their opinion is not a call to arms nor a way of forcing people to be a part of something they don't want to. People came to this thread voluntarily because of recent events on this site relating to myself and Arcturus. Nobody was forced but they were given the link. If anything, this really highlights that "silent majority" of users who don't want to get involved in things, but when something big enough shows up they will read and take note. Wolfblade linked people to his post, and as you know it's pretty long. For people to read all of that and post shows their intent on being a part of what's going on around here. A good dozen or more people have chosen to get involved and that number may increase.

There's a lot of people who are highly upset at all the downtime and hackings in the past year and a half. Not all of them were caused by Arc, but some of them were and we know that. While you have a different view of Arcturus, a lot of people have their own views. Most people just want to use the site and get on with their lives, but this unbanning is such a big deal we have a lot of people stopping by and multiple threads popping up with multiple posts indicating it's a pretty huge matter. It critically underscores the need to understand what our core userbase thinks and feels rather than just a sampling from the forums and IRC. Not that people here are unimportant however. We have a good thousand plus of active users and here there's maybe a hundred or two.



Now I have tried to stay out of this because it makes me uncomfortable. I do want to sincerely thank everyone that's taken the time to post here and read what's going on. Same for everyone that may chose to do so in the future. I really appreciate the support. >^.=.^<


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

Myr said:
			
		

> Wolfblade linked people to his post, and as you know it's pretty long.* For people to read all of that and post shows their intent on being a part of what's going on around here.* A good dozen or more people have chosen to get involved and that number may increase.



Umm that's actually the problem, not everyone READS the posts, they see "hey this cool aritst I happened to watch posted this so I'll just show support *GO TEAM*"

It's not that I don't have a problem with people voicing their opinion but I'm no way naive in thinking that a lot of these people actually read and/or comprehended the post.


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## Xax (Aug 17, 2006)

Myr said:
			
		

> And the entire site does not revolve around the forums and IRC. There are thousands more people on the entire site that have an opinion on this matter and although their opinion is not popular with you and some others it still can get out. Requesting people to join in and voice their opinion is not a call to arms nor a way of forcing people to be a part of something they don't want to. People came to this thread voluntarily because of recent events on this site relating to myself and Arcturus. Nobody was forced but they were given the link. If anything, this really highlights that "silent majority" of users who don't want to get involved in things, but when something big enough shows up they will read and take note. Wolfblade linked people to his post, and as you know it's pretty long. For people to read all of that and post shows their intent on being a part of what's going on around here. A good dozen or more people have chosen to get involved and that number may increase.


And considering Wolfblade had to correct several of those people, I don't think they read his whole post through. Not to mention, his post is just as biased as mine is (which is to say, significantly) and for a lot of these new users this is all the information about this situation they have, and there are reams of background information that could be useful.

(also, most of the people posting seem to be of the 'scared furry' type who see hackers lurking behind every corner, and don't actually seem to know what hacking actually _is_. Or they are the overly-polite decency police. Either way, I have a hard time taking them seriously.*)

* to footnote, I realize there are all manners of logical fallicies in that last sentence, but they are just the logical fallicies people generally use while debating (that being "I don't like this person's views on [x], therefore their views on [y] are flawed or unimportant", otherwise known as "Ad hominem") so I don't feel really bad saying this because if need be I can back up my 'fearful personality => lack of information/lack of logical though' connection, which would make it a legitimate argument.


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## Goliath (Aug 17, 2006)

kitetsu said:
			
		

> Really, do any of you even grasp the greater concept of the word "forgiveness"? Try NOT answering that.



There's nothing wrong with forgiveness and second chances... But Arcturus is on, like his 20th second chance. How much longer should we have to put up with his behaviour before we say enough is enough?

Fool me once, shame on you...
Fool me twice, shame on me... and we're tired of being fooled.


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## Acroth (Aug 17, 2006)

For Arc to be as smart as he is with finding holes in systems, I still see he's just too immature and childish going about proving his hacking ability than just informing of the problems. Secondly starting websits that steal or post artists artworks that are DNP and basically telling the artist "Hey F you I bought your art cd at a con and wanted to show it off" its ridiciolous, I don't think Arc can be trusted with the responsbility even if its in an unoffical capicity.  He could do alot of good things if he quite trying to show off and get pissed at people who think differently. I think the Admins and mods now are doing a good job, sure there will be asses that pop up and try to disrupt but you have to take the good with the bad.  As with Arc even in a unoffical since I still wouldn't trust him to go back and runor cause grief like he did before.


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## MaLaKa (Aug 17, 2006)

Only certain people are being given the full story. I put together what I see on here and what is said. Thou I dont like listening to hear-say. For people who think other people are ill-informed with information before saying somthing, Shouldnt a thread be made by somone know knows the full details? 
Least then if the full details are out there, it will stop any miss-guided posts or what not. Atm I am sitting on the fence watching both sides.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

MaLaKa said:
			
		

> Shouldnt a thread be made by somone know knows the full details?
> Least then if the full details are out there, it will stop any miss-guided posts or what not. Atm I am sitting on the fence watching both sides.


There was.


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## Myr (Aug 17, 2006)

Xax, logical fallacies are so common though... Life is full of them and double standards and the whole works. We can't really be rid of them even after trying.





Everyone involved, I have to lock this thread now because we have an official one up and everything is going to be diverted over to there. You can view the official one here: http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2710

I do appreciate all the people that were concerned about me earlier. >^.=.^< For everyone discussing Arc, the new official thread will have more details. There is also a post earlier from Xax and Wolfblade's at the start of this thread to see the two viewpoints from someone that knows Arc and someone that doesn't know Arc, respectfully.

OFFICIAL THREAD/EXPLANATION HERE: http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2710
This thread is locked by fellow administrator request.


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