# Today, I find more images deleted.  Pick an AUP policy and be consistent, people



## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

Today, I find more images removed from my gallery that were just fine according to photografuhrer just a few days ago..
I find it extremely frustrating that FA admins cannot be consistent in AUP interpretations.*

Here is the email I got a few days ago:




			images in your gallery
		
Click to expand...

*


> Sent By: photografuhrer to smash On: September 5th, 2011 09:39
> 
> I just wanted to confirm that most of the images in your  gallery are within the limits set by the new AUP.  The only one I have a  question on is the leather wolf, which you have marked as mature/adult.   The photo itself does not seem to be adult in nature.  You are leaning  against a wall.  You can leave the rating in place if you think it's  suitable.


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

Why not just take it to Deviantart and stop crying

You just joined FAF so you could bitch when admins removed your fetish photos. Why not go to a site that tolerates that shit? Would save you the time you waste logging in here


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## Xenke (Oct 7, 2011)

Small detail, not sure if it's a typo,_ September_ 5th was over a month ago.


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

I've been on FAF for a while , RTS.   I've just never had to post here until recently when people started to get all prudish on FA, and freaking out about stuff that has been perfectly fine for YEARS.  Why NOW are things different?  Is furry being overrun by social conformist conservatives?  It sure feels like it.


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 7, 2011)

I will agree that there should be more consistency within the handling of the rules. That said the very same pictures that have been removed from your gallery Smash will be removed again in the very near future. Apparently the rules as they are do not express the intention we had behind them well enough. That will be fixed, and therefore there will be more clarity for everyone.


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

Clayton said:


> Why not just take it to Deviantart and stop crying
> 
> You just joined FAF so you could bitch when admins removed your fetish photos. Why not go to a site that tolerates that shit? Would save you the time you waste logging in here



FA has tolerated "that shit" for a long time.  Why it is different now?  I'm tired of newbies in the furry fandom trying to tell me what is and is not furry.  I've been here for almost 20 years, and I am not leaving.  I am not here to pick a fight.  I am only here to stand up for myself, and if you think that is being adversarial then that is your problem.  I refuse to be a doormat to a bunch of closed minded people.


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> FA has tolerated "that shit" for a long time.  Why it is different now?  I'm tired of newbies in the furry fandom trying to tell me what is and is not furry.  I've been here for almost 20 years, and I am not leaving.  I am not here to pick a fight.  I am only here to stand up for myself, and if you think that is being adversarial then that is your problem.  I refuse to be a doormat to a bunch of closed minded people.


FA hasn't tolerated it for a long time. They just didn't have a rule against it until people started pointing out that it's fetish clothing.

Whenever a furry calls someone "close-minded", I tune them out.


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## Summercat (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> FA has tolerated "that shit" for a long time.  Why it is different now?  I'm tired of newbies in the furry fandom trying to tell me what is and is not furry.  I've been here for almost 20 years, and I am not leaving.  I am not here to pick a fight.  I am only here to stand up for myself, and if you think that is being adversarial then that is your problem.  I refuse to be a doormat to a bunch of closed minded people.



Nobody is saying what is and is not furry. We are saying what is and is not welcome on Furaffinity.

Contrary to popular belief, Furaffinity isn't the Fandom.


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

Trpdwarf: Respectfully, I really just want Dragoneer to decide at this point.  It's his site.   the admins have been puppets to the trouble tickets generated by a bunch of people who don't care for me.  To be honest, it's no longer about the images.  It's about the principle.  it's about how I am treated, not just by the cold callas admin responses, but the people they blindly appease to.

If I had some visibility into the complaints in the trouble tickets lodged against my gallery, it might make me a little more inclined to not post stuff.  But , to have one admin tell me OK, and another take it down, I really don't want to believe the admins.  It's like the the story of the boy who cried wolf.  I want to see the actual ticket that prompted the removals.  I want to see the complaints.  I want to see how many of them come from the same handful of crybabies.

If Dragoneer tells me the images are inappropriate, I will take them down myself.  I am a big fan of someone  saying "Take that down" instead of the current "shoot first , ask questions later" tactic.  I find that tactic very hostile, adversarial, and it really makes the admins look like the bad guys.  A lot of good will could be found in admins saying, "please remove this within 24 hours or we will have to"  When you just remove something, you really come off as the bad cop who gets a power trip by abusing authority, and whether you intend for that to happen or not that is how it is perceived.

If Dragoneer himself tells me to take it down , I will take it down all on my own without you having to delete anything, and you know what, I might just take everything down, and never be a problem for you again.  At this point I persist in this not because I want my images here, but mostly because I am tired of feeling like I am being treated like a criminal.  That is how you folks make me feel the way you enforce the AUP.  It rubs me, and others the wrong way.  It's like you are actually LOOKING for a fight, and I never set out to look for a fight.  But i am not going to be a punching bag, either.


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## Summercat (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> Trpdwarf: Respectfully, I really just want Dragoneer to decide at this point.  It's his site.   the admins have been puppets to the trouble tickets generated by a bunch of people who don't care for me.  To be honest, it's no longer about the images.  It's about the principle.  it's about how I am treated, not just by the cold callas admin responses, but the people they blindly appease to.
> 
> If I had some visibility into the complaints in the trouble tickets lodged against my gallery, it might make me a little more inclined to not post stuff.  But , to have one admin tell me OK, and another take it down, I really don't want to believe the admins.  It's like the the story of the boy who cried wolf.  I want to see the actual ticket that prompted the removals.  I want to see the complaints.  I want to see how many of them come from the same handful of crybabies.
> 
> ...



How do I link images here? The "Oh wait, you're serious, let me laugh harder" is applicab-


Oh fark, when did I turn into Corto.


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## Xenke (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> I am a big fan of someone  saying "Take that down" instead of the current "shoot first , ask questions later" tactic.  I find that tactic very hostile, adversarial, and it really makes the admins look like the bad guys.  A lot of good will could be found in admins saying, "please remove this within 24 hours or we will have to"  When you just remove something, you really come off as the bad cop who gets a power trip by abusing authority, and whether you intend for that to happen or not that is how it is perceived.



My understanding of things, based on what I've heard and what I've experienced in the past, is that it's not really feasible to do this with a site this size. Admin's forget, or leave for a bit, or get swamped with 100 other things, and as a consequence violating images get left up by people who refuse to remove them.

There are people who'll gladly listen to the admin's requests, but because you can't trust everyone to be like that, this system doesn't work.


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

Admins have a shoot first, ask questions later policy for repeat offenders, I've noticed


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> Trpdwarf: Respectfully, I really just want Dragoneer to decide at this point.  It's his site.   the admins have been puppets to the trouble tickets generated by a bunch of people who don't care for me.  To be honest, it's no longer about the images.  It's about the principle.  it's about how I am treated, not just by the cold callas admin responses, but the people they blindly appease to.
> 
> If I had some visibility into the complaints in the trouble tickets lodged against my gallery, it might make me a little more inclined to not post stuff.  But , to have one admin tell me OK, and another take it down, I really don't want to believe the admins.  It's like the the story of the boy who cried wolf.  I want to see the actual ticket that prompted the removals.  I want to see the complaints.  I want to see how many of them come from the same handful of crybabies.
> 
> ...



Smash, how can you say the word respect in the same paragraph as you accuse the admins/staff of being puppets? Don't you think that is a little rude? The people who report tickets btw do so for a variety of reasons. Please don't turn this into a personal thing where "no one cares about you". We care about each and every member of our user base. We want to give them as much freedom as we can but there are going to be limits.

I am terribly sorry that you were given misinformation about the status of certain images. I am sorry that you went through this mix up. What I have to tell you is no different than what Neer will. The content that you re-uploaded without first getting clarification is against the rules and will be against the clarified version. Unfortunately there has been a mix up due to the wording of the AUP. We are working on clearing that up. However I respect that you want to hear from Neer himself. I will see if I can get him to be able to talk to you so you hear it from him. That said it won't any different than what I have just said. You have content that you know was removed before and it will be removed again.


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 7, 2011)

Smash,

I'm sure you understand we can not show you tickets reporting you, if that's even the case.
Privacy and all that.

That said, 95% of the tickets I answer aren't crybaby like reports, but actually written in a serious manner.


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## Kobura (Oct 7, 2011)

Summercat, I seem to remember you not being a jerk once. Maybe it's just been a long time since then.

Moderatorship has done you poorly I'm sorry to say.

Thank you Cerberus for making an uncharged, unspiked comment 
I always imagined moderators of a place like FA being responsible enough to, maybe, keep a notebook of current issues and their status... if I can do that for something as idle as a game, surely someone deemed mature enough to moderate a (to some, for some reasons) fairly important website in the lives of its' users... can do the same?

And then maybe asking wouldn't be too big of a chore. That said I've been "warned" ever about something without action being taken immediately, which I appreciated.


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## Smelge (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that noting down things while playing a game is slightly different from moderating a large website with quite a few staff members.

And I can understand the response from Summercat. The OP is being rude and telling people what he thinks should be allowed on the site, telling us that the rules are wrong because they inconvenience him, and that the moderators are useless because he'll only listen to the site owner. He's being an arrogant fuck.


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

summercat has never been douchey


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## Summercat (Oct 7, 2011)

What's with the Summercat love, guys? 

This is confusing me. D:

@Kobura: He's effectively saying that the DEA, Justice Department, or anything farther down the line has no authority; he'll only listen to the President of hte United States. Hence why I was laughing.

Or a better example, a customer refusing to accept a new policy as informed by an employee and supervisor of a store, and saying he'll only accept it if the CEO speaks to him personally.


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## Aden (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> Is furry being overrun by social conformist conservatives?  It sure feels like it.


 


smash said:


> I am only here to stand up for myself, and if you think that is being adversarial then that is your problem.  I refuse to be a doormat to a bunch of closed minded people.


 


smash said:


> it's about how I am treated, not just by the cold callas [sic] admin responses, but the people they blindly appease to.





> I am tired of feeling like I am being treated like a criminal.  That is how you folks make me feel the way you enforce the AUP.



This situation is of significantly less importance than you think it is


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## Verin Asper (Oct 7, 2011)

Someone just needs a break from FA it seems, specially since they will only accept the words from the owner who probably have better things to do than come down and say the same thing the admins told them...to which by using furry logic they would bitch at them too due to conforming to the users.



that last part is always gonna happen as I think they would then try to get a safe haven from the rules if they talked to the big man.

also when did a few days ago = a month ago now?


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 7, 2011)

Crysix: I guess days fly by if you're getting older. Making months seem like days.


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## LizardKing (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh, such a shame I can't see these lovely submissions of yours. But if it's anything like your journal, I expect you can find some website far more suited to your kinky fetish 'art' tastes.


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## Jashwa (Oct 7, 2011)

da fuck?


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## WingDog (Oct 7, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> Oh, such a shame I can't see these lovely submissions of yours. But if it's anything like your journal, I expect you can find some website far more suited to your kinky fetish 'art' tastes.



Why must you post things I can click on?


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 7, 2011)

Sometimes watching these threads remind me of kids that would try to play up their parents

Child: "Dad can I go to the park?"
Dad "No son, not after you do your homework and chores"
Child goes immediately to Mom to get an answer...

(Half the time when that's not favorable, they'll go back to Dad and tell them Mom said ok, when she didn't)

Other times they'll be a real snot and dismiss the other parent's word and reply "Well I'll just go ask Mom then"


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## Kihari (Oct 7, 2011)

OP, since there are several people moderating submissions, there are bound to be as many interpretations of exactly where to draw the line. True, the AUP isn't always clear on where that line is (as has been pointed out several times, and which is something that should be fixed), but most of the staff will be willing to work with you on those borderline cases.

...until, of course, you come barging into the forums to make a big public scene, slinging tantrum-level shit everywhere.

Because you haven't linked us to the pictures in question, the rest of us really have no idea what's even going on here. I hope you don't seriously expect anyone to just side with you based only on the information than you've given.



LizardKing said:


> your journal



Wh--

Nevermind.


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## Smelge (Oct 7, 2011)

Kihari said:


> Because you haven't linked us to the pictures in question, the rest of us really have no idea what's even going on here. I hope you don't seriously expect anyone to just side with you based only on the information than you've given.



Don't be silly. He's been here for 20 years. He's earned his right to display photos of his gimpwolf suit.


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

Summercat said:


> What's with the Summercat love, guys?
> 
> This is confusing me. D:


 
I just never understand why people come here nad say you're mean because you tell them that they're breaking the rules. You're like the Fluttershy of the Furaffinity admins.

Don't hit me for that comparison plx 



Arshes Nei said:


> (Half the time when that's not favorable, they'll go back to Dad and tell them Mom said ok, when she didn't)


 
Oh shit, i used to do this ALL THE TIME as a kid

Now, admins.. now that this guy is banned, can we please make a clear cut rule saying LEATHER/BONDAGE PHOTOS ARE NOT ALLOWED AS THYE QUALIFY AS FETISH MATERIAL


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

Smelge said:


> And I can understand the response from Summercat. The OP is being rude and telling people what he thinks should be allowed on the site, telling us that the rules are wrong because they inconvenience him, and that the moderators are useless because he'll only listen to the site owner. He's being an arrogant fuck.


I only respond with arrogance because I am being TREATED with arrogance.  Arrogance is one of the fastest ways to piss me off, and I have gotten NOTING from this site but arrogance from the mods from day one.  So, pot, kettle, black.


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## Smelge (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> I only respond with arrogance because I am being TREATED with arrogance.  Arrogance is one of the fastest ways to piss me off, and I have gotten NOTING from this site but arrogance from the mods from day one.  So, pot, kettle, black.



Examples or shut up.

Or do you class "arrogance" as people disagreeing with your concept of what should be allowed on the site? If you post a fetish photo, and it gets removed, do you think that is arrogance for not letting you break the rules as you want?


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## CerbrusNL (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> I only respond with arrogance because I am being TREATED with arrogance.  Arrogance is one of the fastest ways to piss me off, and I have gotten NOTING from this site but arrogance from the mods from day one.  So, pot, kettle, black.


Any eye for an eye never works out, Smash.

If you feel we're being arrogant, tell us*, when that's the case. Don't just throw back the nuke, that ain't gonna solve anything.
Treating others the way you wish to be treated, yourself, usually goes a long way.


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> Someone just needs a break from FA it seems, specially since they will only accept the words from the owner who probably have better things to do than come down and say the same thing the admins told them...to which by using furry logic they would bitch at them too due to conforming to the users.



Last time this came up, Dragoneer told me "Why didn't you come to me first?"  I agreed , and tried... ... problem is, I tried, and he doesn't respond.  the admins ban me, I can't even log in to see if he responded to the message I sent on FA, and he certainly has not responded to any messages I sent outside of FA.  I want his input because he ASKED me to seek it last time this came up.


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

CerbrusNL said:


> Any eye for an eye never works out, Smash.
> 
> If you feel we're being arrogant, tell us*, when that's the case. Don't just throw back the nuke, that ain't gonna solve anything.
> Treating others the way you wish to be treated, yourself, usually goes a long way.



Goes both ways.  Ganging up on me , backing me into a corner, putting me on the defensive, what the heck do you expect.  Try cornering an animal, and pissing it off.  You won't like the response.  Why should you guys expect any different with the shoot first ask questions later policies, and the mob mentality, even in this thread?


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> Goes both ways.  Ganging up on me , backing me into a corner, putting me on the defensive, what the heck do you expect.  Try cornering an animal, and pissing it off.  You won't like the response.  Why should you guys expect any different with the shoot first ask questions later policies, and the mob mentality, even in this thread?


You're the one who came onto FAF and started complaining. FAF has a mob mentality, it isn't the hugbox that FA is.


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## smash (Oct 7, 2011)

Smelge said:


> Examples or shut up.
> 
> Or do you class "arrogance" as people disagreeing with your concept of what should be allowed on the site? If you post a fetish photo, and it gets removed, do you think that is arrogance for not letting you break the rules as you want?



No, I am reading into it.  it's the hostility I am met with.  Admittedly, Some of the folks here have been even keeled in this thread, which I appreciate, but the passive aggressive personal attacks are what set me off,and it's not always easy to ignore it.


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## Kihari (Oct 7, 2011)

smash said:


> Ganging up on me, backing me into a corner, putting me on the defensive





smash said:


> hostility... passive aggressive personal attacks



You've  pretty much described how FAF always reacts to something as disagreeable as this discussion. Clearly  you did not lurk enough before making this thread.

My  suggestion: Next time something like this happens (and not just here,  but on any site), use the trouble-ticket system or other private methods  to handle it. Don't come to a forum full of people who don't know you  and don't give a shit about the situation, make an aggressive thread calling out the mods,  and then expect the results to turn out in your favor.

You keep pointing fingers, but you yourself could sure have done a better job in dealing with this.


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## Aden (Oct 7, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> But if it's anything like your journal, I expect you can find some website far more suited to your kinky fetish 'art' tastes.



Wow
jeez, I didn't even see this

Perhaps it's best for you not to lecture anyone on social graces, smash, because I don't see how you'll ever be taken seriously after something like that.


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## Xenke (Oct 7, 2011)

Now friends, there's no need to seek out external* sources to besmirch this man's credibility.

The user has the response he requested, albeit probably not the one he was hoping for, so there's not really much point in furthering anything faintly malicious.

*external as in outside of FAF.

Ok, fuck that, I'm going to be reading excerpts from his twitter



> @dragoneer thanks for the permenant ban from FA for tame pics of my costume. Keep it classy.



"_Classy_". Yea, right back at ya, bucko. Let's ignore the various other things you did, of course. Such as the several distasteful comments you've made, in addition to repeated reuploading removed submissions.



> @rifkafox i know. This is likely the "clean furs" lodging a complaint trouble ticket campaign about me. All started with triggerfox.



These statements are always favorites of mine. The "_Clean Fur Conspiracy_", I call it.

I have a feeling that most things that get reported are done so by people who don't associate at all with the clean furs. The assumption that all the complaints are filed by them is laughable.



> @Catwoman69y2k this fandom is being overrun by puritanical youngsters that have absolutely no interest in the roots of it.



Duuuuuude, you're taking this way to seriously. Seriously, take a chill pill, this isn't something like a political party. I don't think you understand the purpose of FA, nor do you comprehend what the typical FA user is like.



> @rifkafox FA is run by the new Burned Furs movement. They can have that site...



Yes, we get it, everyone is conspiring against you.



> @melhelmeh What I gained from it, "radical self expression" is now being looked down upon. Might as well be a fundie christian fandom.



Ahaha, I'm sure you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, but that's hilarious. They fact that communities, furry communities even, exist to house the kind of wares you peddle is evidence enough to the contrary.



> @IchiBlack If @dragoneer would communicate directly I would, but his admins are my problem, not him or the site.



Honestly, 'Neer posted in one of your "my stuff got removed" journals a while back. You think if he had a problem with how this stuff was moderated in your case, he would have fixed it?

Isn't the fact that he did nothing about it evidence enough?



> @Catwoman69y2k @IchiBlack Well, I am permabanned, so I am not playing  I was only going to go down as a martyr to the cause.



Ha. I knew you were pushing this at some sort of grab at fame. Like I said, you're taking all of this way too seriously. The sad thing is that in the end, the only thing that you've accomplished by fighting this is having more stringently worded guideline against the kind of content you wanted to post on the site, and even that isn't entirely because of you alone.



> @Spottacus I need a place among furries where my input, my desires, and my CONTRIBUTIONS are wanted, needed, and appreciated.



Didn't you already post several journals about the places you've taken your pictures elsewhere to?

Are these sites, like, not good enough for you?



> @tigerwayne Especially when interpretations are highly subjective, and most others go unenforced. My account is singled out for some reason



No, it really hasn't. Haha.

I can personally tell you that many TTs have been filed regarding, many users that are -not- you.

It's a double edged sword. If you keep drawing attention to yourself, playing a martyr, what do you think is going to happen?



I think I'm done now. I really tried to be polite in all this, because honestly in a way we're both fighting for the same goal, but you make it _so hard_ not to take a critical stance against you. You're paranoid about people conspiring against you, you're stand-offish, and you're frankly just wrong about a lot of stuff. You may indeed have good intentions behind all of this, but you're going about it in completely the wrong way.


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## Ozriel (Oct 7, 2011)

In all my life of being a librarian, my favorite thing that patrons like to do is   deliberately break the rules and write themselves to be the matyr...and then complain to the manager that the "Terribad worker" isn't working up to their standards when they do something that is against the rules, such as eating in the library, and downloading illegal materials.

Yeah, I am sorry you were banned, but you should have asked for a second (or third) opinion from another admin for clarification, not just one, or waited to be able to talk to 'neer directly. Patience goes a long way and throwing a tantrum just makes you all the guilty.



LizardKing said:


> Oh, such a shame I can't see these lovely submissions of yours. But if it's anything like your journal, I expect you can find some website far more suited to your kinky fetish 'art' tastes.



Why did I click on that?
WHY DID I CLICK ON THAT?!?


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## LizardKing (Oct 7, 2011)

Xenke said:


> [a whole bunch of crazy shit]



Hahahahaha. Oh wow. Persecution complex much? 

You say you've been around furry for 20 years. Perhaps you fail to realise how many more of us there are now, and just how little you matter. You are not even remotely noteworthy or important, certainly not enough to be targeted in such a manner. Not to mention...

Oh to hell with it. I could go on and on but it's probably a waste of effort.


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## Fay V (Oct 7, 2011)

As fun as it is to point out the failings of the OP can we try to class up Site discussions and stop attacking his undefended character.


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## LizardKing (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh wait hang on



> @dragoneer thanks for the permenant ban from FA for tame pics of my costume. Keep it classy.



If he's permabanned what exactly are we discussing? :V Not that there was much to begin with, other than, "hey stop deleting my shit".


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## Xenke (Oct 7, 2011)

LizardKing said:


> If he's permabanned what exactly are we discussing? :V Not that there was much to begin with, other than, "hey stop deleting my shit".



I don't even know. It's stuff I wanted to post earlier, but I was at work so, like, I couldn't.

Also it's stuff I would have liked to post during his previous "I'm banned, everyone's out to get me" rants, but I didn't have the opportunity. SO YEA, PENT UP POST WANTED TO GET OUT. WHAT OF IT.


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## Verin Asper (Oct 7, 2011)

eh...since they are permabanned and this topic pretty much now dead, i'll do the right thing.


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## Volkodav (Oct 7, 2011)

Do the right thing and ruin all the fun**

Oh well.. my drama glands have thoroughly secreted all over this thread already


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 7, 2011)

Crysix Fousen said:


> eh...since they are permabanned and this topic pretty much now dead, i'll do the right thing.



I'll go ahead and close this thread. There is little reason to keep it open further.


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## Summercat (Oct 8, 2011)

Clayton said:


> I just never understand why people come here nad say you're mean because you tell them that they're breaking the rules. You're like the Fluttershy of the Furaffinity admins.
> 
> Don't hit me for that comparison plx



...I needed a new signature quote. THanks :3


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