# Ask Protocollie anything about dance music



## protocollie (Jan 21, 2009)

With apologies to Load_Blown who has made this seem quite fun for giving him such a hard time.

I fancy myself knowledgeable about dance music. If you have questions you may ask them and we can see how I will answer them!


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## Endless Humiliation (Jan 21, 2009)

protocollie said:


> With apologies to Load_Blown who has made this seem quite fun for giving him such a hard time.



Thanks, man. That really means a lot, seeing as how SOME punks think it's cool to just rip off your post topic without even changing a word of it even though it's a courtesy and would really mean a lot to them but no they instead have to be a funny guy and "let it be" by not changing a word and letting it sit there like a loogie dripping off my monitor onto my face.

I'm sure the punks are very nice fellows in person, however.


I got a threefer for ya.

1. How do you feel about IDM? Do you think the label is pretentious or do you think it is apt? And if so, HOW apt?

2. Do you consider dance-punk bands like The Rapture to be dance music?

3. Is it possible to dance to breakcore artists, such as Venetian Snares or DuranDuranDuran?


EDIT: Let me also take this opportunity to remind people that my question thread is still open and I take questions on ALL topics not just dance music.

However, I am not a musician like protocollie is, I am just some schlub.

Carry on.


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## GatodeCafe (Jan 21, 2009)

Did UK Apache ever do anything after "Original Nuttah"?

I fucking love that song, and I'd love to hear more from the same guy.


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## greg-the-fox (Jan 22, 2009)

Am I right in being so obsessive about measure divisions, ie: always having patterns or sections of a song that last 2,4,8,16,and 32 or even 64 measures? I feel very uncomfortable doing something say 24 or 40 measures long or even 48 rather than 64. Is this just me being ocd or does it really matter when it gets past the scale of 16 measures? And when is it okay to break the rules here?


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## protocollie (Jan 22, 2009)

Load_Blown said:


> 1. How do you feel about IDM? Do you think the label is pretentious or do you think it is apt? And if so, HOW apt?



I think it's pretty apt. About 90% apt. It's definitely a tad on the pretentious side but more in actual production of the music, i.e. the idea of dance music is to dance to and a lot of the artists are way more concerned with breaking convention than actually, you know, making something danceable. It's definitely more in the realm of intelligent though since it's more challenging than your everyday dance track which really can be quite predictable. That said the lines are blurring every day. Noisia's pushing the boundaries of dance up against IDM pretty hard and it's starting to seem like they're off in their own disconnected genre.



Load_Blown said:


> 2. Do you consider dance-punk bands like The Rapture to be dance music?



Yes, and a good dance punk song can destroy a floor even more than a good totally digital slammer since folks rarely expect it.



Load_Blown said:


> 3. Is it possible to dance to breakcore artists, such as Venetian Snares or DuranDuranDuran?



My feeling is no. In my mind, breakcore is lumped in with speedcore and IDM in the category of dance music that 'everyone stops moving and watches.' Not that it's bad, just very few people can actually dance to it.

I mean you can dance to anything, just dance music is about breaking down barriers in a room and having everyone dance in the end and uh, that sort of stuff does not do that.


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## protocollie (Jan 22, 2009)

GatodeCafe said:


> Did UK Apache ever do anything after "Original Nuttah"?
> 
> I fucking love that song, and I'd love to hear more from the same guy.



Not far enough into the D&B scene to know about more minor artists, but to be helfpful, I looked it up and found one called Uzi's Rap and one called Gimme Da Gal.

Thanks to the magic of beatport 4 I can link you to everything you can hear from him:

https://www.beatport.com/en-US/html...ntityId=17876&orderBy=releasePublishDate DESC


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## protocollie (Jan 22, 2009)

greg-the-fox said:


> Am I right in being so obsessive about measure divisions, ie: always having patterns or sections of a song that last 2,4,8,16,and 32 or even 64 measures? I feel very uncomfortable doing something say 24 or 40 measures long or even 48 rather than 64. Is this just me being ocd or does it really matter when it gets past the scale of 16 measures? And when is it okay to break the rules here?



In short, yes. Predictable measures means DJs know how to mix it better which means a better chance of club play. There's nothing I hate more than when a track changes off time and suddenly I have two tracks going all over the place while I'm trying to do a mix.

In short, yeah. Time structure is an important thing in club land.


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## LoC (Jan 22, 2009)

Blood Stain Child on their albums 'Idolator' and 'Mozaiq' have mixed melodic death metal with trance music.

Have you listened to either of them, and what do you think?


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## protocollie (Jan 22, 2009)

LoC said:


> Blood Stain Child on their albums 'Idolator' and 'Mozaiq' have mixed melodic death metal with trance music.
> 
> Have you listened to either of them, and what do you think?



No. But death metal is not something I enjoy much and trance isn't really at all in tune with the rest of the dance world (it's a few years behind at least) so I'd have to say it's probably more of a novelty act.


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## GatodeCafe (Jan 22, 2009)

Do you know where I can find a torrent/bootleg of "The Black Room" by the KLF? (Never released, etc...)


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## protocollie (Jan 23, 2009)

GatodeCafe said:


> Do you know where I can find a torrent/bootleg of "The Black Room" by the KLF? (Never released, etc...)



Never came close to finished. I don't imagine the bootlegs that leaked were anything close to actual tracks in most cases.


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## Endless Humiliation (Jan 24, 2009)

What are some tracks that get people the _CRAZIEST_???


Also do you play old techno like 1991-93?


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## GatodeCafe (Jan 24, 2009)

Load_Blown said:


> What are some tracks that get people the _CRAZIEST_???
> 
> 
> Also do you play old techno like 1991-93?



Sandstorm. Sandstorm sandstorm sandstorm.


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## Endless Humiliation (Jan 24, 2009)

GatodeCafe said:


> Sandstorm. Sandstorm sandstorm sandstorm.



That song is mad old dude


There are better songs that people dance their ass off to

Besides this ain't your thread


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## ShaneO))) (Jan 24, 2009)

I myself have been discovering the greatness of electronic music, although i like more experimental electronic. I'm not a fan of that(no offense) gay stereotypical house/trance shit i.e. Tiesto, oakenfold etc....


1)What do you think of live electronica and dance, such as artists like sound tribe sector 9,Pnuma trio, the disco biscuits, the new deal, EOTO and Telepath etc.....

2) Whats your opinion on hip hop and rap influnced eletronica?


3) What programs do you use? Ableton? FL?


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## ShaneO))) (Jan 24, 2009)

Check out some of my music. Tell me what you think. I guess you could classify me under IDM in a way. I think of it as more and throw back to analog sci fi/horror soundtracks form the late 70s and 80s. Check out zombi and steve moore from my myspace page. They have they same general idea i do. The just do it a HELLLLL of alot better.


www.myspace.com/shaneregan610


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## protocollie (Jan 24, 2009)

Load_Blown said:


> That song is mad old dude
> 
> 
> There are better songs that people dance their ass off to
> ...



Sandstorm is the biggest joke in dance music. It's funny to say you're going to play it because it sucks.

Right now I'm getting a lot of good use out of Josh Gabriel - Sine Waves. Also, the reward is more cheese by deadmau5. My personal favourite weapon will hopefully get released soon, that's split the atom by noisia - oh god is it good. There's a breaks track called 'Happiness' that's getting caned up and down right now but takes the right moment to drop at. 

My personal favourite right now though is Classixx - Cold Act Ill (Wolfgang Gartner Monster Mix) because seriously, that track is INTENSE. Dousk - Hit The Dance Button is good for more mellow nights, too.


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## protocollie (Jan 24, 2009)

ShaneO))) said:


> I myself have been discovering the greatness of electronic music, although i like more experimental electronic. I'm not a fan of that(no offense) gay stereotypical house/trance shit i.e. Tiesto, oakenfold etc....
> 
> Nobody in the scene likes Tiesto or Oakenfold.
> 
> ...



1) I think that it's played up a lot and people put on a bigger show to make it look like they're doing something more than they are. It'd be great if it could be done, but folks go out and fake it and then raise the expectations for people who are just trying to be legit about it. Once people figure out a way to legitimately perform dance live then it'll be a lot better state than it's in right now. There's only two bands who are really pushing the limits on that right now and they're Pendulum (unfortunately) and Prodigy.

2) Too good for words.

3) A ton. I produce a lot in Logic 8, use NI Massive and NI Battery a lot for sounds as well as Rob Papen Albino 2, AudioRealism Drum Machine and AudioRealism Bassline. I also use Zebra, Zebralette and some other craziness and Sonalksis and Ohmforce plugins for mastering and mixdown (and effecting.) I also use Reason 4 sometimes but not much anymore. On the performance side I play a -ton- in Ableton Live, but I also use Torq Connectiv with vinyl control and Traktor Pro on occasion.

I also use a ton of hardware.


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## protocollie (Jan 24, 2009)

ShaneO))) said:


> Check out some of my music. Tell me what you think. I guess you could classify me under IDM in a way. I think of it as more and throw back to analog sci fi/horror soundtracks form the late 70s and 80s. Check out zombi and steve moore from my myspace page. They have they same general idea i do. The just do it a HELLLLL of alot better.
> 
> www.myspace.com/shaneregan610



Definitely not IDM. It's a bit too repetitive for that. I'd actually say it's repetitive enough to qualify as like, legit straight up techno.


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## ShaneO))) (Jan 24, 2009)

protocollie said:


> 1) I think that it's played up a lot and people put on a bigger show to make it look like they're doing something more than they are. It'd be great if it could be done, but folks go out and fake it and then raise the expectations for people who are just trying to be legit about it. Once people figure out a way to legitimately perform dance live then it'll be a lot better state than it's in right now. There's only two bands who are really pushing the limits on that right now and they're Pendulum (unfortunately) and Prodigy.
> 
> 2) Too good for words.
> 
> ...




1) I think were thinking of two diffrent types of live electronica. I'd say its even more legit. An these guys arent faking it because alot of them incorperate improv and jamming live. Not only can you go out rage and dance, your actually watching a show, not some guy, i hate to say it, just pressing buttons. I don't mind a dj every so often, but im a musician and i like to watch others play live instruments. Not bashing your opinion dude, i just think you havent expirenced alot of these bands live. I went down to atlanta for a 4 night new years run of soundtribe. One of the best expirences of my life. And the djs there were terrible. kap 10 and dj rootz or something. They just sampled a bunch of shitty souther rap songs. Do your self a favor when soundtribe comes around to your area see them. 

2) so i guess you like it? I like it because it has more drive and power than trance or house.
And i dont feel gay dancing to it haha, i kid i kid.


Yea my music is a little repetitive, Live however i will be incorperating syths and bass guitar fo shits and giggles.


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## protocollie (Jan 24, 2009)

ShaneO))) said:


> 1) I think were thinking of two diffrent types of live electronica. I'd say its even more legit. An these guys arent faking it because alot of them incorperate improv and jamming live. Not only can you go out rage and dance, your actually watching a show, not some guy, i hate to say it, just pressing buttons. I don't mind a dj every so often, but im a musician and i like to watch others play live instruments. Not bashing your opinion dude, i just think you havent expirenced alot of these bands live. I went down to atlanta for a 4 night new years run of soundtribe. One of the best expirences of my life. And the djs there were terrible. kap 10 and dj rootz or something. They just sampled a bunch of shitty souther rap songs. Do your self a favor when soundtribe comes around to your area see them.
> 
> 2) so i guess you like it? I like it because it has more drive and power than trance or house.
> And i dont feel gay dancing to it haha, i kid i kid.
> ...



1) I don't think you really saw what i'm talking about. I have no problem with live electronic music. At all. What I'm saying is it's not something I can take seriously right now because so many people fake it. It's hard to imagine it's going anywhere with so many people faking so much of it or simply not playing live, period (justice, daft punk.) There's definitely something to be said for live dance/electronic music but the bulk of it is people standing smugly on stage, twiddling knobs while their machines trigger everything. You can find examples of people doing it right, but I can give you ten thousand examples of folks doing it WRONG. I'm not discounting the folks who are doing it right. But a live PA jacks the price of a show by like 20, 30 bucks and a lot of folks DO fake it and people are starting to see that. On an individual level, people are doing great things. On a macro level, people are ruining it for future generations of AMAZING performers.

I'd LOVE to see more acts who absolutely destroy and play their stuff live. You've listed a few really pertinent examples of folks who are going to break the trend but until there's a mainstream understanding that the instruments actually need to be played, I can't think anything but it makes us look bad.

2) It's great stuff.

3) I am not saying this as a diss - please understand I mean that as advice to help you get better. It's not like I'm up on some high platform looking down at you, I'd like everyone passionate about dance or electronic to be able to advance and get better. Things that seem negative now will help you improve later.


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## ShaneO))) (Jan 24, 2009)

protocollie said:


> 1) I don't think you really saw what i'm talking about. I have no problem with live electronic music. At all. What I'm saying is it's not something I can take seriously right now because so many people fake it. It's hard to imagine it's going anywhere with so many people faking so much of it or simply not playing live, period (justice, daft punk.) There's definitely something to be said for live dance/electronic music but the bulk of it is people standing smugly on stage, twiddling knobs while their machines trigger everything. You can find examples of people doing it right, but I can give you ten thousand examples of folks doing it WRONG. I'm not discounting the folks who are doing it right. But a live PA jacks the price of a show by like 20, 30 bucks and a lot of folks DO fake it and people are starting to see that. On an individual level, people are doing great things. On a macro level, people are ruining it for future generations of AMAZING performers.
> 
> I'd LOVE to see more acts who absolutely destroy and play their stuff live. You've listed a few really pertinent examples of folks who are going to break the trend but until there's a mainstream understanding that the instruments actually need to be played, I can't think anything but it makes us look bad.
> 
> ...






Oh haha, i confused you with the live electronic aspect. Im not talking about acts like justice or daft punk. These are actual bands that play instruments like guitars, bass, synths and live drums(gotta love them live drums) Now i see what you mean about faking it. Yea the acts i mentioned are actual bands that use live instruments to play electronic influnced music. as far as my music goes i wasnt taking it as a diss, i was just making up excuses haha. Im just fucking around with ableton and fl studio. And i know exaclty what you mean about fakes ruining it for everyone. Why is that the shitty artists make it big and great artists are ignored. Well soundtribe and the disco biscuits have a big following but its all their own fans. Flying lotus is another example to good live electronica, his tix are like 8 bucks and he is actually playing his music live on the spot.


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## Lyxen (Feb 1, 2009)

would any artist be able to spin my shit? 

cause i just don't think it's possible- I think my music was made for bandwith.


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## protocollie (Feb 2, 2009)

Lyxen said:


> would any artist be able to spin my shit?
> 
> cause i just don't think it's possible- I think my music was made for bandwith.



well, i'm not sure i understand this question but if you're asking if a DJ would drop your tracks in a club, the blunt answer is i don't really think so, no. i, personally, wouldn't drop it because the floor would empty. i think most other djs would agree.

not because of 'bandwidth' or whatever that is, but because the tracks lack energy, appropriate structure or okay mastering/mixdown. if you work hard enough and improve, though, i mean anything can happen.

don't take it as a slam, it's not like the worst stuff I've ever heard, it's just nowhere near club ready. if i say 'yeah it's awesome' then you'll never have reason to try and improve, so.


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## Magikian (Feb 3, 2009)

What is the point in making music purely for dancing to?

*is totally not biased*


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## protocollie (Feb 3, 2009)

Magikian said:


> What is the point in making music purely for dancing to?
> 
> *is totally not biased*



What's the point of making music you can really only enjoy listening to sitting down?

What's the point in making music, period?

If you want to hear my totally biased opinion on the matter, I personally think dance music is about the rawest, most pure form of music there is. It's just sound. There's no pretension of lyrics trying to make some deep statement, there's no effort to wow you with a huge dick-waving contest of how fast someone can play notes, there's no anything except for ear-pleasing hooks and a strong beat. It's just sound with lots of energy that gets you moving, and gets everyone else moving with you. There's a science and some serious skill and psychology that goes into dance and the music can, under the right conditions, collectively control the emotions and attitude of a large group of people and make them all happy and excited at once.

I'd say that.


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## Lyxen (Feb 3, 2009)

actually nevermind what you just said.,,. i have this going where i can submit my music to local venues or "shows" and get my music played during interludes,, it's like a battle between digital vs. livers


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## Lyxen (Feb 3, 2009)

got the idea while watching a music video by PORTUGAL. THE MAN lay me down...


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## protocollie (Feb 3, 2009)

Lyxen said:


> actually nevermind what you just said.,,. i have this going where i can submit my music to local venues or "shows" and get my music played during interludes,, it's like a battle between digital vs. livers



having it played during an interlude where it's just background music and not the focus of the crowd is a bit different from having it dropped in a club. if you're aiming to have your music dropped in a club you're not in the right ballpark. if you're aiming to have that sort of thing happen then I don't know. I don't spin background music.


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