# Issues with Id Software and Bethesda Softworks



## Armaetus (Oct 21, 2012)

[video=youtube;1snCRIl16ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snCRIl16ks[/video]

How. Fucking. Dare you.

Bethesda, how dare you make Id butcher their game like this for the secret levels in Doom 2 and fucked up Doom 3 by making it easier with more ammo, reducing FOV to 60, making it brighter and making the flashlight an attachment to the armor the PC wears.

I may not have purchased this inferior product but I have the original Doom 3 and Doom games, which the latter was severely hampered but I have read on the Bethsoft BFG Edition subforum and Steam subforum for Doom series. First of all, modding is impossible with the included Doom 3 version due to running on Id Tech 5 (Rage's engine) and not Id Tech 4, next you have changes that should have been left alone, such as Sarge's texture changed but the comm videos were not. You also have it stuck to 60 FOV instead of a normal 90 in the original, which is an obvious consolization tweak and narrow field of view. Ammo is also more plentiful and it is brighter thanks to console command r_overbright 2 (default is 1 in D3). All these changes to Doom 3 make it more like an action game instead of a horror shooter like the back of the original game's back of box mentions!

Now to what is wrong with the classic games, they put back in the random pitch variations from Doom v1.1 which I don't think you can turn off and are highly annoying, the menu is clunky and ugly since they did some changes to it, stimpacks and medikits have a pill icon and not a cross thanks to Red Cross being a bunch of babies whining about the use of the cross icon. The most significant change is to the Doom 2 secret levels, all of the Nazi/Hitler pictures on the walls were removed from the walls, the level's musics and level names were changed (IDKFA and Keen respectively) and there's no SS soldiers, they were replaced by easy zombiemen, both in game and in the Doom2 data file. You'd think they'd only censor it only for Germany, right? Wrong, it's censored internationally!

For people new to Doom, I highly advise buying the original classics off Steam for $9.99 each while they are still available, because you cannot purchase original Doom 3 on there, it's either this inferior BFG Edition or the Id Superpack for $99.99.


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## Ranguvar (Oct 21, 2012)

I find it sad that I was playing doom 3 at a higher fidelity in 2005 than the console version of Doom 3 BFG in 2012. And I saw the digital foundry comparison between the original and the BFG, and it looks like ID just made the fov worse and turned up the brightness. The textures are the same as well. This is a lazy cash in.


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## Runefox (Oct 21, 2012)

> ... Doom 3 ... making it brighter and making the flashlight an attachment to the armor the PC wears.



Yes, Id, how dare you fix the number one complaint and most-joked about thing in Doom 3.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 21, 2012)

I don't like the massive abundance of spammo in Doom 3 BFG edition to be honest.

I'm playing veteran difficulty and I have over 300 shotty rounds. And it's my most-used weapon. What.


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## Armaetus (Oct 21, 2012)

That's one of those issues, the ammo balance was fine in classic Doom 3 (which I have thankfully) but you just needed to do a little bit of exploring to maximize your ammo loadout.


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## LizardKing (Oct 21, 2012)

I don't get it. There are loads of games filled with Nazi-killing goodness (including, obviously, Wolfenstein itself), why remove it from something as old as Doom 2?



Glaice said:


> First of all, modding is impossible with the included Doom 3 version... 60 FOV



aaaaaaaaaa


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## Heliophobic (Oct 22, 2012)

Our lord and savior id is dead. Doom 4 and Quake 5 are probably just going to be casualized garbage because Bethesda will inevitably want the lowest common denominator. It only makes sense. I hope you like regenerating health, because those COD scumbags certainly fucking will.

Fuck everything. Seriously, fuck everything.



Runefox said:


> Yes, Id, how dare you fix the number one complaint and most-joked about thing in Doom 3.



There was nothing to "fix". You'd have to be a fucking idiot to not be able to play because you didn't know how to use the flashlight correctly. I got through the game just fine.


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## Kesteh (Oct 23, 2012)

The problem was it was more of "Hey. It's flashlight time." in 80% of the game. 
They kind of touched on it in Quake 4 with finally clipping it to your gun and even had it pull out a compatible gun when pressed.


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## RitsukaAo (Oct 23, 2012)

Fuck it, I'll play good ol' Doom from my dusty "90s shit" box.


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## Rheumatism (Oct 23, 2012)

Glaice said:


> [video=youtube;1snCRIl16ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snCRIl16ks[/video]
> 
> How. Fucking. Dare you.
> 
> Bethesda, how dare you make Id butcher their game like this for the secret levels in Doom 2 and fucked up Doom 3 by making it easier with more ammo, reducing FOV to 60, making it brighter and making the flashlight an attachment to the armor the PC wears.


 An already extremely easy game made even easier?  I can't understand the logic behind that.  Casuals may like Call of Duty but Call of Duty is way harder than Doom 3.



Glaice said:


> I may not have purchased this inferior product but I have the original Doom 3 and Doom games,


If you didn't even bother to buy the game then you shouldn't be so complainy.



Glaice said:


> next you have changes that should have been left alone, such as Sarge's texture changed but the comm videos were not. You also have it stuck to 60 FOV instead of a normal 90 in the original, which is an obvious consolization tweak and narrow field of view.


That's strange but it's not a huge deal.



Glaice said:


> Ammo is also more plentiful and it is brighter thanks to console command r_overbright 2 (default is 1 in D3). All these changes to Doom 3 make it more like an action game instead of a horror shooter like the back of the original game's back of box mentions!


More ammo?  Doom 3 had insane amounts of ammo already.  They gave you retarded amounts of ammo... 
That doesn't make it more of an action game.  It makes it a poorly designed game.


Glaice said:


> Now to what is wrong with the classic games, they put back in the random pitch variations from Doom v1.1 which I don't think you can turn off and are highly annoying, the menu is clunky and ugly since they did some changes to it, stimpacks and medikits have a pill icon and not a cross thanks to Red Cross being a bunch of babies whining about the use of the cross icon. The most significant change is to the Doom 2 secret levels, all of the Nazi/Hitler pictures on the walls were removed from the walls, the level's musics and level names were changed (IDKFA and Keen respectively) and there's no SS soldiers, they were replaced by easy zombiemen, both in game and in the Doom2 data file. You'd think they'd only censor it only for Germany, right? Wrong, it's censored internationally!


I agree with you on that.  Seems silly to change.  Wolfenstein got away with it and it was released a couple years ago.



Glaice said:


> For people new to Doom, I highly advise buying the original classics off Steam for $9.99 each while they are still available, because you cannot purchase original Doom 3 on there, it's either this inferior BFG Edition or the Id Superpack for $99.99.


Well people who own PS3s and 360s don't have that option.  A few little flaws don't completely destroy the BFG edition.  Doom 3 was always a stupidly designed game, but it was enjoyable none the less.

What I don't understand is why Doom 3 BFG edition didn't come to the Wii.  I thought the Wii was supposed to be a stronger Gamecube.  One that was perhaps on par with the first Xbox, a system that originally had Doom 3.  A Doom 3 that had a sweet co-op mode no less.  Wii owners should get the chance to play it.  Surely it's strong enough to handle a fucking 2004 game...


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## Heliophobic (Oct 23, 2012)

Kesteh said:


> The problem was it was more of "Hey. It's flashlight time." in 80% of the game.



I just think people over-exaggerate this whole "lawl can't see shit captain" thing. I mean, it was intended to be more horror than action.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 23, 2012)

Saliva said:


> I just think people over-exaggerate this whole "lawl can't see shit captain" thing. I mean, it was intended to be more horror than action.



Yeah, I don't care if the flashlight thing was "illogical" or whatever. I actually found it to create a p. cool challenge and add a lot to the atmosphere. Fighting zombies in the dark. That shit's cool.

But now, hell, most games with zombies prefer to use broad daylight and then call themselves horror games.

Games are going down the shitter. I can't think of a single game I liked before being made to appeal to casualfags. Monster Hunter is the only one off the top of my head that still has a "hardcore" soul to it, but their developers decided to put it on the fucking Wii and then complain about how it's not popular in the west. Ugh.


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## Toshabi (Oct 23, 2012)

Hardest classic pc dos shooter for me will always be blood.

It's too bad id sold out to casuals. Oh well, least we got mecha hitler before they went under.


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## Heliophobic (Oct 23, 2012)

Gibby said:


> Games are going down the shitter. I can't think of a single game I liked before being made to appeal to casualfags. Monster Hunter is the only one off the top of my head that still has a "hardcore" soul to it, but their developers decided to put it on the fucking Wii and then complain about how it's not popular in the west. Ugh.



If you're going to make a video game you either have to choose selling out to filthy casual scum or doing what you want and fading into obscurity.

I don't care how unimportant video games are. That's fucked up.


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## Campion1 (Oct 23, 2012)

I can't even begin to get into all the problems that this release has, but I think nonremappable controls are the serious nail in the coffin for what could have been an at least passable port otherwise.


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## Stratelier (Oct 23, 2012)

Glaice said:


> The most significant change is to the Doom 2 secret levels, all of the Nazi/Hitler pictures on the walls were removed from the walls, the level's musics and level names were changed (IDKFA and Keen respectively) and there's no SS soldiers, they were replaced by easy zombiemen, both in game and in the Doom2 data file. You'd think they'd only censor it only for Germany, right? Wrong, it's censored internationally!


Do you have a vid for how the same levels look from actual Doom 2?


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## Heliophobic (Oct 23, 2012)

Stratadrake said:


> Do you have a vid for how the same levels look from actual Doom 2?



[video=youtube;dzb2DnUyqVw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzb2DnUyqVw[/video]

It's beautiful.


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## Stratelier (Oct 23, 2012)

Well, that _is_ quite a difference.


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## Xeras'na Bladewing (Oct 23, 2012)

My only experience with Doom has been the first game, and I'm currently playing through Inferno at the moment.

I did have the BFG Edition on pre-order, so I could become more familiar with the Doom games, but I'm not sure now.

Then again, Doom never really was classified as survivor horror, was it? So I don't see much issue with the ammo addition on 3. The flashlight addition is interesting comparing it to the original version I've seen on Youtube vids. However, the censorship is insulting. I don't really see any reason that it should be present. It's Doom, it's not supposed to be censored, from what I know of it.

In any case, I think I'm going to take back my money from my pre-order on the game, as I haven't bought it yet.


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## Heliophobic (Oct 24, 2012)

Xeras'na Bladewing said:


> Then again, Doom never really was classified as survivor horror, was it?



I fucking hate when people call Doom 3 "survival horror".

Shooting monsters to not die doesn't necessarily mean it's survival. It's still action, just with more cheesy jump scares.

Also, spoiler alert. The demons killed your pet rabbit. The bastards.


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## Stratelier (Oct 25, 2012)

"Cheesy jump scares" are the best-known survival-horror trope, though....


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## Zydrate Junkie (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm sure that censorship will kill the world eventually, makes me quite sick actually.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Oct 25, 2012)

Saliva said:


> I fucking hate when people call Doom 3 "survival horror".
> 
> Shooting monsters to not die doesn't necessarily mean it's survival. It's still action, just with more cheesy jump scares.



Also, it's rather dark most of the time.
Ooo_ooo_ooh_o_oo_h_!


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## Heliophobic (Oct 25, 2012)

Stratadrake said:


> "Cheesy jump scares" are the best-known survival-horror trope, though....



Guns are an action trope. Action comedy is a subcategory within action. Therefore, anything with guns is an action comedy.


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## Kirbizard (Oct 25, 2012)

I was going to buy Doom 3 BFG Edition so I could play The Dark Mod. Then I found out it doesn't work with Doom 3 mods and the original Doom 3 isn't on Steam any more. I'm so glad I researched before actually buying it.

Thankfully, The Dark Mod should be going standalone soon-ish, so Id lost a sale there. :V


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## Heliophobic (Oct 25, 2012)

Kirbizard said:


> I was going to buy Doom 3 BFG Edition so I could play The Dark Mod. Then I found out it doesn't work with Doom 3 mods and the original Doom 3 isn't on Steam any more. I'm so glad I researched before actually buying it.
> 
> Thankfully, The Dark Mod should be going standalone soon-ish, so Id lost a sale there. :V



Could you recommend me some mods for Doom 3? I never really bothered modding it before.


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## Zydrate Junkie (Oct 26, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Could you recommend me some mods for Doom 3? I never really bothered modding it before.


Get the Classic Doom 3 mod! Nao!


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## SonderDrache (Oct 27, 2012)

Wow. Just wow. The amount of whining/bitching/temper tantrums in this thread. It's just fucking amusing as hell. Don't like the game? Don't fucking play it. Id Software made these changes to make the game more accessible, and more popular, with modern FPS gamers. Those who grew up on a steady diet of battlefield and Call of Duty. There are still means to play and enjoy the original version. You have to think, though. Doom 3 isn't nearly as popular as it was, some years back. Most who wanted it, have it. This re-release is meant to draw people back into it. However, if they made no changes, people would whine and bitch about that, saying it's graphics and mechanics are old. It's like playing Goldeneye 64 back when Doom 3 came about. Graphics and mechanics had changed. There's no reason to throw a hissy fit at Id for trying to modernize Doom 3 some, for current audiences, so they could maximize sales. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE if you haven't PLAYED THE DAMN GAME. It's like bitching about a movie you've never seen. Id did what they needed to. Hell, the only reason this edition is being put on PC, is because if they didn't, the PC crowd would bitch. This game was designed more for consoles in mind. I'm saying this as a die-hard PC gamer. PC gaming isn't the big platform anymore. Id doesn't care if the few PC gamers who will get this can't mod it. Most PC Doom 3 players have their original copies. This game is meant to bring new players into the fold, to bring Doom to a new generation. Doom 3 is nearly a decade old. Most gamers who were lil kids then, are now at the prime age for Doom. We also gotta think, BFG maybe a precursor to Doom 4. 


So in closing, from this lil rant, Doom 3 BFG had to change. Doom 3 is dated, as compared to today's FPS titles. Doom 3 fans, of course  will bitch, saying it didn't need to change. Sorry, Id wasn't aiming for you. You already have Doom 3. Id has your money, and doesn't care about you, not in this case. Id wants to bring new gamers into the Doom fold. They had to change, to compete better with the Call of Duty games, and Battlefield titles. The flashlight was a big issue, one that was criticized by A LOT back when it came out, and would be near unacceptable. Hell, couple years later, F.E.A.R. comes out. Another horror FPS. It had a always attached flashlight, and was still creepy as fuck. Ammo? In modern FPS games, ammo is usually extremely plentiful. Id wanted to make sure people had more than enough. Doom 3 is going up against tough competition, so Id will do almost anything to compete. So shut up, grow up, and realize things change. You want the classic Doom 3? PLAY THE ORIGINAL DOOM 3. That's it. End of discussion. Shut it. I'm sick and tired of gamers acting like spoiled brats when a "beloved" game gets updated. "How dare you try to change a game to gather a new and/or larger audience!!!" It's stupid. Id has done nothing wrong with the BFG edition.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 27, 2012)

I love when people go and insult others/judge their age for sharing an opinion and I'm expecting more of it too. Then they talk about being mature when well...look at what I just laid out, but what the fuck ever. Besides the point.
I suppose Sonder is right in his main point and that Doom 1-3 is already out and still supported by PC gamers. I wasn't planning on picking up BFG simply because it was an obvious cash in and there was no need considering I own the collector's edition on PC (or whatever edition it was that came with the other Dooms) with ROE, so I'm straight. I'm all for giving players options on how they wish to game unlike a certain other company today, so this isn't too much of an issue even if some complaints can seem valid at the start. 
Yes, it is further pussification of games today.
Yes, it may be...lol it *IS* a sign of further things to come from id in the future in terms of scrapping their older audience for a newer larger market.
BUT we have the version we like more and can just go back to it easy rather than play what we perceive to be an inferior version.

Why I would be upset about the game is this: Since this is without a doubt going to be standard practice, worry if id will not give classic players options from the START of the game to play how they want and if this is the end of practical id modding. And yes, THAT is something to be upset over because you have been alienated from a franchise you've enjoyed for over a decade. Maybe it's not the end of the world, but with more companies jumping on the bandwagon, it is extremely annoying at the very least. And honestly, this is the last franchise I'd expect to be made casual. I mean look at the title for fuck's sake. Doom. DOOM. I don't even have to explain. It speaks for itself.

Hope for the best, expect the worst and if it happens, refer back to this thread and know why.


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