# What's so amazing about Homestuck?



## Stickwolf14 (Jun 26, 2012)

Just wondering why there is such a big group of fans for homestuck. lol.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Jun 26, 2012)

I tried reading it once. Only came back to it a couple of times. Got bored and stopped following it. Me personally, there's nothing really special about it. 

The only thing I remember from Homestuck today is something about cake, a giant meteor, some fake arms and a weird ass computer program that lets you rearrange the furniture in your friend's house.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Jun 26, 2012)

never even fucking understood the first page thing. i dont care


----------



## Dragonfurry (Jun 26, 2012)

I dont really see the appeal with it cause i can never keep up with the plot. I tried getting one of my friends to explain the comic and halfway through the explanation I got lost. :/


----------



## CaptainCool (Jun 26, 2012)

i never really got it and it isnt really my thing.
the only MS paint adventure that i follow right now is prequel: http://www.prequeladventure.com/
its cute, its sad, the plot isnt convoluted to hell and back and it has some cool flash animations and minigames in the mix^^ like an awesomely hilarious poledancing sequence! X3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJthCRonjhQ


----------



## Littlerock (Jun 26, 2012)

Everything, except for the fan base. Sometimes, it's like playing an old text-based MMO, other times, it's like reading a book, still others, it's like watching a movie. Sometimes, it's even like playing a 2D mmorpg, but no matter what, it's always entertaining. Kids and fun.


----------



## Jashwa (Jun 26, 2012)

I think it's stupid and anyone that obsesses over it is stupid.


----------



## Littlerock (Jun 26, 2012)

Jashwa said:


> I think it's stupid and anyone that obsesses over it is stupid.



Well I think _you're_ stupid, so there >:V


----------



## Bark (Jun 26, 2012)

I tried to give it a shot. Didn't get past the first page. And a group of friends that pretty much fapped to it really ruined me wanting to try to enjoy it ever. They tend to turn me away from a lot of things v:


----------



## Kaamos (Jun 26, 2012)

Haven't read it myself, don't really want to either. It's just fucking annoying how I can't go anywhere on the internet without seeing somebody with a homestuck avatar. I see them almost as much as my little pony ones.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm not telling any of you about Homestuck.


----------



## Riley (Jun 26, 2012)

Just read Problem Sleuth if you absolutely want to read an MS Paint Adventure story.  It's about a tenth of the length and ten times more interesting.  Homestuck turns into an absolute clusterfuck of everything uninteresting any one person could possibly shove into any medium of entertainment once the trolls come in, especially since you then spend months worth of content redoing the entire first arc of the story except with "Tarvos" or whoever instead of "Dave."  Or you could ignore both and go on being just as happy.

Problem Sleuth is pretty cool though.


----------



## Heliophobic (Jun 26, 2012)

This is going to sound really weird coming from a person with a Homestuck username, avatar, and sig.

Nothing. Other than the porn, music, and some of the fanart, there is virtually nothing rewarding about wasting your time reading that glorified piece of shit.

It's not even a real story anymore. Just a source for in-jokes and fanart. Constantly. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PAGE IS JUST A NEW JOKE FOR TUMBLR TO JERK EACH OTHER OFF TO. Almost everyone outside of the original four kids are blank robots that people can make hilarious references to. LOL the joke is that she's an alcoholic. LOL the joke is that he's an abusive brother with a puppet fetish. LOL the joke is that she's a lesbian vampire.

I think one of the biggest mistakes is that the entire story is too perfect. I must literally make every detail in the pesterlogs part of some ultimate prophecy I'm just pulling out my ass. I have to drag this plot on until the page number reaches a recurring number I can slap on everything. There has to be a specific fuckhuge number of characters, but then I have to kill half of them off in the most lolsorandumXD way because I realized A GROUP OF TWELVE CHARACTERS (EACH ONE HAVING A DIFFERENT COLOR OF SOME RETARDED BLOOD COLOR SPECTRUM) WAS A BIT TOO MUCH.

Sometimes I wonder how better off Homestuck would be if it were written by a competent writer. It has a fantastic plot, and so much potential to be the greatest thing ever (with the right pacing and a lack of fanservice/fantrolling). But no. Gotta shred the story into pieces and throw in disgustingly large globs of shipper fuel and humor so Tumblr and Deviantart can continue sucking my cock.

Do me a favor. Don't waste your time with this. It's really not worth it. Find another webcomic.

And for the record, I have read through Homestuck. I just sort of caved at the beginning of the alpha session.

I will continue to wear this Sollux avatar because he's a sexy motherfucker.


----------



## Dokid (Jun 26, 2012)

I tried reading it. The only thing that I liked was the page where you got to play the flute badly and how one of the character's is obsessed with octopuses. Other than that it can't keep my attention.


----------



## Heliophobic (Jun 26, 2012)

Some day when I learn to draw sufficiently I will attempt to redo it. No, I'm not saying I'm a good writer. I've never written anything in my life. Yet, somehow I still believe I can do a better job than Hussie.

And if I get into legal trouble, so be it. I'd gladly take it all down. As long as Hussie himself realizes his story is so terrible it actually drove someone to fix up his own mess.

God, I am really being a dick tonight.


----------



## Cain (Jun 26, 2012)

When I attempted to read it, I got more confused than when I watched adventure time once.
I can accept that a long-running webcomics could gain such a large fan base, but to be honest I don't see the appeal.


----------



## Vukasin (Jun 26, 2012)

I only got through act 1. I haven't read any further than that.

It gets really annoying to see all the hate towards it though. It's just a webcomic guys, you have the ability to ignore it. You don't need to freak out about how shitty you think it is every time it's mentioned.


----------



## Heliophobic (Jun 26, 2012)

Cain said:


> When I attempted to read it, I got more confused than when I watched adventure time once.
> I can accept that a long-running webcomics could gain such a large fan base, but to be honest I don't see the appeal.



The plot becomes apparent at the beginning of Act 2.

But no, it doesn't get any better aside from a couple badass flashes.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 26, 2012)

I tried reading it, gave up.  It's just not my thing.


----------



## Namba (Jun 26, 2012)

I couldn't get into it. It was fine for a bit but... Just didn't really get me _hooked_, ya know?


----------



## greg-the-fox (Jun 26, 2012)

Homestuck is one of those things like Dolan that I will never understand
Yes I went there. U mad?


----------



## Heliophobic (Jun 26, 2012)

greg-the-fox said:


> Yes I went there. U mad?



I'm pretty sure something just flew right over my head.


----------



## Namba (Jun 26, 2012)

Sollux said:


> I'm pretty sure something just flew right over my head.


Mine too... U mad, Greg?


----------



## BarlettaX (Jun 26, 2012)

What's so amazing about Anthropomorphic art?


----------



## Conker (Jun 26, 2012)

Everything.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jun 26, 2012)

BarlettaX said:


> What's so amazing about Anthropomorphic art?


That you are a member of a fandom that complains about when things are popular and yet at the same time mass producing fanart for popular characters and watching only popular artists.


----------



## Evan of Phrygia (Jun 26, 2012)

Once again, SUBJECTIVITY OF OPINIONS IS IGNORED.

If there has to be a reason, it uses animations that can be considered not half-arsed and the plotline was given a lot of thought, albeit I kind of agree with Sollux that it really loses direction. Facts aside, I don't give a bloody shit what the other thinks about homestuck and I don't understand why people feel the need to ask "What's so amazing about _____?" If you're curious, bloody fucking look, if you don't like it, leave it to the fact that others do and stop questioning it because you think your opinions are the only bloody truth in this world. What's so amazing about you? What's so amazing about feeling the disgusting need to ask legitimately stupid questions?!
I liked it, and I still kinda like it, but it's getting impossible, downright aggravating to follow along with anymore due to the need to cut back on characters, then add more, then cut again. But that shouldn't matter to you, yet judging by the fact that you went out of your way to make a thread, it really does, doesn't it?
I have no idea why this made me so angry.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 27, 2012)

I think a lot of the frustrations fans are having with the current story are going to be moot in retrospect. Most of the criticisms leveled at the Act 6 kids mirror the criticisms leveled at the Act 5.1 trolls, back when they were the focus of the story. Yet, archive readers that came along later found the troll arc and characters to be one of the most enduring and beloved parts of the story. It's a natural consequence of being an update-reader--you're just getting little sips here and there, it feels drawn-out as hell, you can't get sucked into it, and it's easy to get frustrated when the story isn't doing what you want it to do. But what takes a month for update-readers takes like 15 minutes for archive-readers; they don't develop that frustration, they just get sucked into the story and take it for what it is. 

I really doubt that Huss is dragging it out intentionally. We were given indication a long time ago that there would be seven acts--considering how many hints we had about the post-scratch kids early on, I'm guessing he'd planned for Act 6 to be about them from the start. If you compare it to the original kid arc, it's actually moving along much, much faster. We're not dicking around with sylladexes or alchemizing or spending forever just getting the damn game installed. It did feel kind of slow during the introductions, but it picked up quickly and hasn't really slowed down since. It just feels slow because, well, update-reading.

Also, uu and Meenah are _fucking hilarious_.


As for the folks that don't like HS at all, well, different strokes. Also:
[yt]0la5DBtOVNI[/yt]

I do have to say I'm getting a kick out of the people who dismissed it _on the first page_.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 27, 2012)

What is homestuck?


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 27, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> What is homestuck?


A really long and convoluted webcomic about logical paradoxes, time travel, and multiverses. It starts out very silly and simple and (very) gradually becomes more complex and epic. (Early page compared to shit-got-real page. [Flash, mild spoilers, don't play the game after the intro unless you want bigger ones.]) Many pages are gif animations, some are flash animations with music (although 99% of it is done by one dude in a rush so we're not talking Disney movies here), a few are actually games. 

It's not really for everyone. Although it does maintain a rather impressive internal consistency and everything does eventually make sense, it can be confusing at times, and the beginning is a slog if it's not your kind of humor. If you do like it, though, you're liable to _really_ like it.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Jun 27, 2012)

I like how convoluted Homestuck's plot is.
I also don't find it that hard to understand. A group of kids play a game that creates a new universe, having interaction with and cuts to the group of kids (trolls) that created theirs before them. Sylladexes and such are just gaming references, like the coins and pee meter in Scott Pilgrim. 

The pacing is abysmal, though. And I'm not just talking about waiting for the next batch of pages.
I'm talking about how long it takes just to get from Point A to Point B, even from an "archive" perspective. And dealing with some grating procrastination joke material.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 27, 2012)

Vaelarsa said:


> I like how convoluted Homestuck's plot is.
> I also don't find it that hard to understand. A group of kids play a game that creates a new universe, having interaction with and cuts to the group of kids (trolls) that created theirs before them. Sylladexes and such are just gaming references, like the coins and pee meter in Scott Pilgrim.
> 
> The pacing is abysmal, though. And I'm not just talking about waiting for the next batch of pages.
> I'm talking about how long it takes just to get from Point A to Point B, even from an "archive" perspective. And dealing with some grating procrastination joke material.



What I don;t understand is, why people seem to like comics which look like they have been drawn up in ten minutes over those that look like they have had a good amount of time put into it.


----------



## Smelge (Jun 27, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> What I don;t understand is, why people seem to like comics which look like they have been drawn up in ten minutes over those that look like they have had a good amount of time put into it.



Because it's called MS Paint adventures. It's the style.

Besides that, I'd like to see any other webcomic update over 90 times in a week.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 27, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Because it's called MS Paint adventures. It's the style.
> 
> Besides that, I'd like to see any other webcomic update over 90 times in a week.



Ahh, so, the creator obviously has nothing better to do but draw badly drawn comics that for some odd reason people like. 

I mean over 90 times a week? Does the creator even HAVE a life? or is he/she super glued to the damn computer 24/7?

I don't mind comics that update once, twice or three times a week, gives me something to look forward too.

I hope ya just pulling my leg with that 90 times a week update.

Edit: Well, if the storyline is good | guess it makes up for not so good artwork.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Jun 27, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> What I don;t understand is, why people seem to like comics which look like they have been drawn up in ten minutes over those that look like they have had a good amount of time put into it.


I, personally, like HS's art.
That's not to say that I don't like comics with a more detailed / realistic look, either, like Drowtales or Lackadaisy Cats.
But it has a certain kind of appeal to it.

I don't really basic a comic's validity on "how much better [x] looks".
That just seems kind of shallow.


----------



## Aleu (Jun 27, 2012)

Randy, it's MS Paint. It's done quickly over...MS Paint. Not some fancy program that takes hours. It's not meant to be super awesome regarding artwork.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 27, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> What I don;t understand is, why people seem to like comics which look like they have been drawn up in ten minutes over those that look like they have had a good amount of time put into it.


Did you look at the links I showed you? The art is simple at first but evolves over time. The character designs remain rather simple, but the background get more complex and the color palettes are lovely. Act 5.1 in particular has a lot of scenery porn.

Some of the flashes are just beautiful. The birth of the green sun in  Cascade . . .



Randy-Darkshade said:


> Ahh, so, the creator obviously has nothing better to do but draw badly drawn comics that for some odd reason people like.
> 
> I mean over 90 times a week? Does the creator even HAVE a life? or is he/she super glued to the damn computer 24/7?
> 
> ...


MSPA is actually what Hussie does for a living, it's his job. He lives off of ad revenue and merchandise. 

90 is probably a high estimate though. Usually we get 3-10 pages a day. That's still 21-70 pages a week though. Sometimes we won't get anything for days and instead get a flash or a huge 40-page update or something.


----------



## Smelge (Jun 27, 2012)

Whats the point in asking other people why you should like something. Read it instead and find out if you like it.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 27, 2012)

Vaelarsa said:


> I, personally, like HS's art.
> That's not to say that I don't like comics with a more detailed / realistic look, either, like Drowtales or Lackadaisy Cats.
> But it has a certain kind of appeal to it.
> 
> ...



I like Lackadaisy cats.

I wasn't meaning to sound shallow if I did. I was just trying to understand why people seem to like simpler comics. I guess because they are simple. 



Ad Hoc said:


> Did you look at the links I showed you? The art is simple at first but evolves over time. The character designs remain rather simple, but the background get more complex and the color palettes are lovely. Act 5.1 in particular has a lot of scenery porn.
> 
> Some of the flashes are just beautiful. The birth of the green sun in  Cascade . . .
> 
> ...




Ahh I see.

Also I was just joking about the glued to the comp crap I said. Ya know, cause he knocks out so many a week.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 27, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Whats the point in asking other people why you should like something. Read it instead and find out if you like it.


I can kind of understand some of the bafflement over Homestuck. I finally settled down to read it right around the time the ancestors were first introduced and my friends were making oodles of Mindfang and Redglare fanart. You can imagine my confusion when I went in expecting sexy demon ladies and instead got . . . fake arms and smuppets. 

Luckily, I found the dorky humor quite engaging. 

The "I read five pages and didn't get it so it sucks" thing does get frustrating, though.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 27, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> I can kind of understand some of the bafflement over Homestuck. I finally settled down to read it right around the time the ancestors were first introduced and my friends were making oodles of Mindfang and Redglare fanart. You can imagine my confusion when I went in expecting sexy demon ladies and instead got . . . fake arms and smuppets.
> 
> Luckily, I found the dorky humor quite engaging.
> 
> The "I read five pages and didn't get it so it sucks" thing does get frustrating, though.



I can't say if it sucks or not, I just made an art comparison from your links.  However I may book mark it and give it a shot. As the old saying goes "Don;t knock it till you try it"


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 27, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> I can't say if it sucks or not, I just made an art comparison from your links.  However I may book mark it and give it a shot. As the old saying goes "Don;t knock it till you try it"


I wasn't really talking about you, no worries. Didn't really get that impression.

First page is here. When you're done reading for the day, press "save," and then when you come back you press "load" and it takes you to where you left off. (Personally, I bookmarked the "Load" link so I can jump straight there.) If you do decide to read it, go slow. When I found it, I binged and blew through the whole archive in three days. If I could go back, I'd have spaced it out over a few weeks at least. Reading the archive is a lot nicer than waiting for updates, best to take your time and enjoy it.


----------



## Littlerock (Jun 27, 2012)

Part of the reason that the art seems so simplistic at times would be due to the fact that the character's exact appearances aren't canonically set in stone. Hussie himself has admitted to this, as he wanted his fans to create their own 'headcanon's for the characters' exact appearances. One common headcanon is that trolls have pointed ears. It's never shown in the official art that the author has drawn, but most fanarts depict such. In the same way, most people consider Gamzee to be rather tall, Nepeta to be short, John to have a squeaky voice, Dave to be an albino, and so on.


----------



## Heliophobic (Jun 28, 2012)

Aleu said:


> Randy, it's MS Paint. It's done quickly over...MS Paint. Not some fancy program that takes hours. It's not meant to be super awesome regarding artwork.



Wrong.

Only the very first panel of Jailbreak is done in MS Paint. The rest is done in Photoshop or something.



Vaelarsa said:


> I don't really basic a comic's validity on "how much better [x] looks".
> That just seems kind of shallow.



Comics are a blend of visual art and literature.

The art of a comic is half of the fucking medium. No, it's not shallow. If it looks like shit that's a _bad_ thing. With a few exceptions but you get what I mean.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 28, 2012)

Sollux said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Only the very first panel of Jailbreak is done in MS Paint. The rest is done in Photoshop or something.
> 
> ...



Who rattled your cage today?


Anyway, I have started to read it, it isn't half bad when you give it a chance and couple pages did have me giggling.It made me laugh so in my book, it's a winner.


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jun 28, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Who rattled your cage today?
> 
> 
> Anyway, I have started to read it, it isn't half bad when you give it a chance and couple pages did have me giggling.It made me laugh so in my book, it's a winner.


He's always madolescent.

Also, fresh meat for the Homestuck cult. Yes, good.
:V
Nah. Glad you're enjoying it!


----------



## Stickwolf14 (Jun 28, 2012)

I wasn' Saying That I hate Homestuck. I was just more saying why people like it? There opinions on it. :T
I've a lot of homestuck and Im kinda liking it! ^-^


----------



## Takun (Jun 28, 2012)

It has a very high barrier of entry.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Jun 28, 2012)

Sollux said:


> Comics are a blend of visual art and literature.
> 
> The art of a comic is half of the fucking medium. No, it's not shallow. If it looks like shit that's a _bad_ thing. With a few exceptions but you get what I mean.


The same could be said for cartoons or video games.
I guess the Simpsons and old NES games are worth disregarding on the simple idea of "they don't have pweety gwafix"?


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 3, 2012)

Well Homestuck Act 1 was to make it confusing  Im at like Act 6 and it makes alot of sense


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 3, 2012)

Homestuck is well written for a web comic and mostly the first act is to be really confusing and you have to keep reading it because (im a fan of homestuck) Hussie covers all fandoms from Dr.Who to the furry fandom (there are furry refs in Homestuck)


----------



## BrodyCoyote (Dec 3, 2012)

I used to like Homestuck. And then I got busy with stuff and missed a week, and then didn't want to catch up on however many pages got posted. And that just kept building and building until like two years later, and hundreds upon hundreds of pages behind. It wasn't bad but it isn't enough to take priority over life and games, and to catch up at this point would take _weeks_ of nonstop reading.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 3, 2012)

I love Homestuck but I'm having trouble explaining why. At this point I appreciate the spectacle. It's a humongous undertaking for the quality to be so good. So many characters and plotlines, such a huge fandom. I find Homestuck to be really *impressive*.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 3, 2012)

I enjoyed the first act, where the guy made witty data structure jokes. I like data structures.


----------



## Azure (Dec 3, 2012)

Just another giant internet injoke for the tween loser crowd. Don't feel bad if you don't understand it because that means you have a life outside of your computer screen. As to why people obsess, well that's just aspergers.


----------



## Platty_Baleine (Dec 3, 2012)

http://youtu.be/MLK7RI_HW-E

Weather you agree this is a good thing or not is subjective. However this conclusion probably does explain the appeal of homestuck. It's a big, long, epic adventure that uses many different forms of media to tell its tale. Plus its filled with classic adventure game nostalgia.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 3, 2012)

Platty_Baleine said:


> http://youtu.be/MLK7RI_HW-E
> 
> Weather you agree this is a good thing or not is subjective. However this conclusion probably does explain the appeal of homestuck. It's a big, long, epic adventure that uses many different forms of media to tell its tale. Plus its filled with classic adventure game nostalgia.


Oh god the greenscreen that guy is using is freaking me out help


----------



## Heliophobic (Dec 3, 2012)

Christ, I thought this thread was damned to the seventh circle of Hell.



viviboi9 said:


> Homestuck is well written for a web comic and mostly the first act is to be really confusing and you have to keep reading it because (im a fan of homestuck) Hussie covers all fandoms from Dr.Who to the furry fandom (there are furry refs in Homestuck)



Pandering to fandoms and communities is the main reason why Homestuck turned to shit. The trolls really served no purpose, and their appearance marked the point in which Hussie just decided "Fuck it, I WANT THE TUMBLR AUDIENCE".


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 3, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Pandering to fandoms and communities is the main reason why Homestuck turned to shit. The trolls really served no purpose, and their appearance marked the point in which Hussie just decided "Fuck it, I WANT THE TUMBLR AUDIENCE".



This is why stories should be written in (large) parts or at once before release - not gradually.

Getting fanbase feedback from a story is kind of pointless. Critique from other writers is one thing, _but not the fanbase_.


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 3, 2012)

I read 10 pages. Some stupid lump of a kid trying to put his arms together from a toy box or something? Whatever. I just didn't find it funny or clever at all. Just seemed like it was trying too hard to be this trippy abundance of imagination when it was actually just putting me to sleep. I thought I was too harsh when I saw a metric fuckton of Homestuck cosplayers at Otakon so in my hotel room I tried it again. This time some guy making out with a beheaded bleeding cyborg on a volcano...? Again, I gave up on it. I suppose it's just not for me. And yeah, fanboy pandering irritates the bloody fuck out of me when it's just slapped in there for no viable reason so if what Saliva says is true, that's another reason I avoid it. I don't judge the readers, though.


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 4, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Christ, I thought this thread was damned to the seventh circle of Hell.
> 
> 
> 
> Pandering to fandoms and communities is the main reason why Homestuck turned to shit. The trolls really served no purpose, and their appearance marked the point in which Hussie just decided "Fuck it, I WANT THE TUMBLR AUDIENCE".



Well.... wait? when I did i bring up the fandom? and the fandom did not make homestuck bad. It just make Hussie say "What are you guys doing?"


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 4, 2012)

BrodyCoyote said:


> I used to like Homestuck. And then I got busy with stuff and missed a week, and then didn't want to catch up on however many pages got posted. And that just kept building and building until like two years later, and hundreds upon hundreds of pages behind. It wasn't bad but it isn't enough to take priority over life and games, and to catch up at this point would take _weeks_ of nonstop reading.



Yea it tends to do that :3 but it depends where you are at? (what act are u on or what act did u stop in?)


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 4, 2012)

Gibby said:


> This is why stories should be written in (large) parts or at once before release - not gradually.
> 
> Getting fanbase feedback from a story is kind of pointless. Critique from other writers is one thing, _but not the fanbase_.



ummm Hussie did it for a reason. he trolls his fans big time. like he will post a update n wait a couple of weeks before posting update. but Homestuck will end soon n make me all sad :<


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 4, 2012)

No need to post three times in a row viviboi. There's an Edit button in the bottom right of your posts for a reason .

As weird as it is I like that Hussie is a complete troll. Sometimes he gets a little heavy handed with it, but jokes about how Nepeta is dead (because she's a big fan favorite) for example are funny to me. Normally I'd hate something as meta as Homestuck typically is. I enjoy the story enough to let it slide. Also I appreciate how cleverly Hussie can sometimes break the 4th wall.

I don't know if he has an endgame in mind but I've read and observed that Hussie is sort of experimenting with Homestuck. Especially in regards to the relationship between creator and fandom. The way he kills, re-kills, and brings back loved characters. The way he frames romance (or non-romance) plots. I like it.


----------



## sunandshadow (Dec 4, 2012)

Trolls and quadrants are awesome.  And the original concept of being a Sim while one of your friends was playing with your house is hilarious.


----------



## Conker (Dec 4, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> ummm Hussie did it for a reason. he trolls his fans big time. like he will post a update n wait a couple of weeks before posting update. but Homestuck will end soon n make me all sad :<


Or he has other things to do and making those giant animations takes time. 

Na, he probably just doesn't update fifty times a day because he wants to troll his fans.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 5, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> ummm Hussie did it for a reason. he trolls his fans big time. like he will post a update n wait a couple of weeks before posting update. but Homestuck will end soon n make me all sad :<



Fuck up a story and pass it off as trolling.

Great.


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 5, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> ummm Hussie did it for a reason. he trolls his fans big time. like he will post a update n wait a couple of weeks before posting update. but Homestuck will end soon n make me all sad :<



Then he's one SHITTY author.


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 5, 2012)

It seems like a lot of effort to latch on to something just because everyone else is doing it. Most of the fanart I have seen of it is absolutely abominable and wrong, so I take it to mean I'm not missing out on anything.


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 5, 2012)

Let me be clear on homestuck.... Im not trying to be mean but Homestuck is really well written, the fans are huge, it covers all fandoms (anime, furries, Dr.Who, and a lot more) unless anyone here has seen the huge flash the that crashed New Grounds and the Homestuck Website. We made tumbler popular cause without the homestuck fandom, nobody would have heard about it. It just get bigger theres already a game being made, the fandom is very friendly and let any fandom join in (im still a furry but homestuck is just amazing on its own level) and if u give it a chance to read the comic and stop looking at the fandom for what homestuck is because you wont get it unless u read it. I had to read the Comic so i get all the refs and plus believe it or not Bad Dragon has allowed Hussie to put one of there toys in the comic (u have to read Act 6 to find it if your close to it if not then keep reading) ..... wow i know theres going to be some grammar errors in this :<


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 5, 2012)

benignBiotic said:


> I love Homestuck but I'm having trouble explaining why. At this point I appreciate the spectacle. It's a humongous undertaking for the quality to be so good. So many characters and plotlines, such a huge fandom. I find Homestuck to be really *impressive*.



I agree with u plus there hussie saying "Not dead enough!" on our sinking ships


----------



## Toshabi (Dec 5, 2012)

When I think Homestuck, the vision of a group of 50 or so fags with white painted faces and black shirts come to mind. Yah. I went to little tokyo and apparently they had a meet there where everyone was dressed like those retarded troll characters. They spent the whole afternoon (well, for the hour or two I was there) reciting some gay ass internet memes with one another ranging from ytmnd memes to sweet bro and hella jeff. 


Never before in my life have I seen such a collective waste of time and life since the feminist protests at my old college.


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 5, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> Let me be clear on homestuck.... Im not trying to be mean but Homestuck is really well written, the fans are huge, it covers all fandoms (anime, furries, Dr.Who, and a lot more) unless anyone here has seen the huge flash the that crashed New Grounds and the Homestuck Website. We made tumbler popular cause without the homestuck fandom, nobody would have heard about it. It just get bigger theres already a game being made, the fandom is very friendly and let any fandom join in (im still a furry but homestuck is just amazing on its own level) and if u give it a chance to read the comic and stop looking at the fandom for what homestuck is because you wont get it unless u read it. I had to read the Comic so i get all the refs and plus believe it or not Bad Dragon has allowed Hussie to put one of there toys in the comic (u have to read Act 6 to find it if your close to it if not then keep reading) ..... wow i know theres going to be some grammar errors in this :<



Justin Beiber is a lot bigger than Homestuck, and it doesn't justify one person's interest in him. The only excuse for his popularity is that a lot of people just really like really dumb stuff. I'm not saying Homestuck is that bad, but it's possible that its popularity isn't based on how good it actually is. I think most things with very large fanbases these days are just fads that people latch on to: Twilight, MLP, Bieber, Glee, and PewdiePie.


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 5, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> Justin Beiber is a lot bigger than Homestuck, and it doesn't justify one person's interest in him. The only excuse for his popularity is that a lot of people just really like really dumb stuff. I'm not saying Homestuck is that bad, but it's possible that its popularity isn't based on how good it actually is. I think most things with very large fanbases these days are just fads that people latch on to: Twilight, MLP, Bieber, Glee, and PewdiePie.



As you are saying the Homestuck fandom in itself is a big melting pot of everything, in reference to things such as MLP, and other fandom bases, large fandoms aren't always because of something silly. Though the humor in the comic of Homestuck is nothing but silly, it has a sensible, and rare humor, and if you don't enjoy it don't read it. Fandom shaming isn't something that should be an issue, even this fandom faces so many issues from judgement on the rare bad fans, in cases of yiff. In relevance Homestuck faces the issue itself, as other fandoms base the entire comic on the 'fandom' rather than the actual comic itself. The comic that Andrew Hussie, has written boomed not because of stupidity, but because of the psychological, problem solving, and humor winding together into something great. So in turn, the majority of the fandom base is in parallel to fandoms such as Sherlock, and Doctor Who, those shows are far from silly, focusing more on psychology, and problem solving. Which is the original base to Homestuck itself. So to say it's silly isn't a full definition, and if anything it is far from dumb. I would honestly recommend it to anyone.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 5, 2012)

> When I think Homestuck, the vision of a group of 50 or so fags with  white painted faces and black shirts come to mind. Yah. I went to little  tokyo and apparently they had a meet there where everyone was dressed  like those retarded troll characters.


Precisely why I didn't want to read it. Everyday on every site ever it was "More of this fucking troll shit?" I'd say. But I loved Hussie's last work _Problem Sleuth_, A LOT so I was willing to give Homestuck a chance. At the end of the day I only enjoyed Homestuck because I put the dumbass portion of the fandom out of my mind. And it was worf it.

I definitely get a lot of effort justification from Homestuck and I'm OK with that because the series is hilarious and epic. 



> Bad Dragon has allowed Hussie to put one of there toys in the comic (u  have to read Act 6 to find it if your close to it if not then keep  reading)


Got to that part today and completely laughed my ass off. "PRICELESS WORK OF ART"


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 5, 2012)

XoPachi said:


> Then he's one SHITTY author.



um, this is the man who, in the first 10 pages of his webcomic, when we knew little to nothing about the main character (and hadn't even met anyone else), was already foreshadowing for 6000 pages in the future. count the zeroes, please. this is the man who can consistently keep track of about 20 plot lines, maybe even more, all at the same time. this is the glorious man who has probably about 100 main characters, not mentioning all the minor characters he has. this man actually listens to his fans, actually LISTENS, unlike many many MANY other popular artists. please, use your common sense and expand on your vocabulary while you're at it.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 5, 2012)

Viviboi I love Homestuck too, but calling Hussie glorious and claiming he's one of few who listens to fans isn't helping our case here.


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 5, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> but it's possible that its popularity isn't based on how good it actually is


No, it's not possible. Twilight, MLP, Pewdie, ect. don't have large fanbases because they are fads. They have large fanbases because a large amount of people think they are enjoyable or "good".

Good is an opinion, so just because you do/don't like something doesn't mean it's good/bad for everyone else.


----------



## Conker (Dec 5, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> um, this is the man who, in the first 10 pages of his webcomic, when we knew little to nothing about the main character (and hadn't even met anyone else), was already foreshadowing for 6000 pages in the future. count the zeroes, please. this is the man who can consistently keep track of about 20 plot lines, maybe even more, all at the same time. this is the glorious man who has probably about 100 main characters, not mentioning all the minor characters he has. this man actually listens to his fans, actually LISTENS, unlike many many MANY other popular artists. please, use your common sense and expand on your vocabulary while you're at it.


Eh. The idea that he had already so much planned and was foreshadowing then is a stretch. Odds are he had some minor plans and just went back to see what lore he had created to build off of. There are such large gaps of information that you can kinda tell he just forgot about something and then went back to it later, which is fine, but it doesn't make him some kind of story telling savant.


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 5, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> As you are saying the Homestuck fandom in itself is a big melting pot of everything, in reference to things such as MLP, and other fandom bases, large fandoms aren't always because of something silly. Though the humor in the comic of Homestuck is nothing but silly, it has a sensible, and rare humor, and if you don't enjoy it don't read it. Fandom shaming isn't something that should be an issue, even this fandom faces so many issues from judgement on the rare bad fans, in cases of yiff. In relevance Homestuck faces the issue itself, as other fandoms base the entire comic on the 'fandom' rather than the actual comic itself. The comic that Andrew Hussie, has written boomed not because of stupidity, but because of the psychological, problem solving, and humor winding together into something great. So in turn, the majority of the fandom base is in parallel to fandoms such as Sherlock, and Doctor Who, those shows are far from silly, focusing more on psychology, and problem solving. Which is the original base to Homestuck itself. So to say it's silly isn't a full definition, and if anything it is far from dumb. I would honestly recommend it to anyone.




I'm saying dumb people are like lemmings, they just gravitate towards something stupid because everyone else is doing it. Most of the largest fanbases are that way. The Guardians seems to be the next growing fad, and it seems to have taken a hold of you, so I can't really just take your word that Homestuck is just something special.


Maybe you could give an example of how Homestuck is so brilliant instead of just _saying_ that it's great.



Vukasin said:


> No, it's not possible. Twilight, MLP, Pewdie, ect. don't have large fanbases because they are fads. They have large fanbases because a large amount of people think they are enjoyable or "good".
> 
> Good is an opinion, so just because you do/don't like something doesn't mean it's good/bad for everyone else.



To a degree good is an opinion, but mostly it isn't. There are well established guidelines for determining quality from crap. Tell someone who has their doctorate in music that Justin Bieber can be considered a good music artist and they will tell you exactly how you are wrong.


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 5, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> There are well established guidelines for determining quality from crap.


Oh really? And just what are these guidelines? 

If I say metal music is good and you say it's bad then what possible guideline can there be to prove which one of us is right? Same goes for MLP, Homestuck, Pewdie, ect. It's impossible.



Streetcircus said:


> Tell someone who has their doctorate in music that Justin Bieber can be considered a good music artist and they will tell you exactly how you are wrong.


He can tell me why I am, in his opinion, wrong, but that doesn't mean he's right. His doctorate in music means that he has a great amount of knowledge in music history, theory, composition, performance or whatever else you can specialize in. They don't become the ultimate musical judges of the world, and it doesn't mean that whatever they say is bad is actually bad. It's just their opinion.

Besides, just like everyone else those people with music doctorates will all have different opinions. What if you had one who didn't like Beiber and the other did?


----------



## Demache (Dec 5, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> was already foreshadowing for 6000 pages


That's my barrier for entry. If I were to start reading now, who the hell knows when I would catch up. Reading comics that have a few hundred strips takes a good week of on and off reading for me. And often I forget to start reading a comic, and I start falling behind again. Not enough motivation.


----------



## Heliophobic (Dec 6, 2012)

Conker said:


> Or he has other things to do and making those giant animations takes time.



Making seizure inducing, two-frame animations is significantly less difficult, however.



Gibby said:


> Fuck up a story and pass it off as trolling.
> 
> Great.



>I realized I didn't really want this character, so now I'm going to make him suddenly die like a complete bitch just to get him out of the way

GENIUS! PLEASE LET ME SUCK YOUR GREASY COCK, HUSSIE.

FUCK YOU WITH A SANDPAPER DILDO, HUSSIE. EQUIUS AND NEPETA HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL.



viviboi9 said:


> We made tumbler popular cause without the homestuck fandom, nobody would have heard about it



Please just stop fucking talking. You have no idea what you're actually saying, do you?



Toshabi said:


> reciting some gay ass internet memes with one another ranging from ytmnd memes to sweet bro and hella jeff.



No matter how shitty Homestuck is, Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff will always be the coolest shit ever.



viviboi9 said:


> because of the psychological, problem solving



Pseudo-intellectual bullshit and needlessly complex side plots for the sole purpose of making it sound clever and ingenius when you're trying to explain it to someone, despite the fact that the entire story is nothing but a huge clusterfuck of Hussie tripping over his shoe laces and trying to fix everything by saying "I meant to do that".

He's a fuckup now. His glorious Problem Sleuth days are over. Why can't you accept this?



viviboi9 said:


> um, this is the man who, in the first 10 pages of his webcomic, when we knew little to nothing about the main character (and hadn't even met anyone else), was already foreshadowing for 6000 pages in the future. count the zeroes, please.



You're so naive it's adorable. Especially with that avatar. It's cute.

No, silly. He had no intention of making any of that background shit important to the plot in any way. Read my above reply. This, kids, is what we call _half-assedness_. He's grabbing onto anything he can at this point to keep this trainwreck going for as long as possible.



viviboi9 said:


> 100 main characters



On what planet does this make a story good?



Vukasin said:


> Oh really? And just what are these guidelines?
> 
> If I say metal music is good and you say it's bad then what possible guideline can there be to prove which one of us is right? Same goes for MLP, Homestuck, Pewdie, ect. It's impossible.



Opinions are usually based on fact. Though he's certainly not objectively right about why those things are shit, he may have some valid reasons as to why he thinks that way.



Demache said:


> That's my barrier for entry. If I were to start reading now, who the hell knows when I would catch up.



It took me roughly a week to catch up to Act 5.2. It's not as long as it sounds. Two thirds of the pages are just wordless panels.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 6, 2012)

I skipped over the entire troll chapter when I was reading it. Probably would've dropped the webcomic if I hadn't done that. Couldn't stand that act.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 6, 2012)

Kazooie said:


> I skipped over the entire troll chapter when I was reading it. Probably would've dropped the webcomic if I hadn't done that. Couldn't stand that act.


Yeah I got *really* tired of it toward the end. I grew to like the trolls after that though.


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 6, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Opinions are usually based on fact. Though he's certainly not objectively right about why those things are shit, he may have some valid reasons as to why he thinks that way.


When it comes to the arts like music, writing and visual there is no "fact" to base your opinion on.


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 6, 2012)

Vukasin said:


> Oh really? And just what are these guidelines?
> 
> If I say metal music is good and you say it's bad then what possible guideline can there be to prove which one of us is right? Same goes for MLP, Homestuck, Pewdie, ect. It's impossible.
> 
> ...



What world do you come from that it isn't obvious that Rembrandts belong in a museum while PewdiePie fanart belongs in the trash? It's not that difficult to determine that more thought and skill has been put into a composition than another. You look at things like complexity, creativity, and the effective use of founded artistic principles.

I can tell you exactly what's wrong, in detail, with all of the things you mentioned that you say is impossible to say whether they are bad or not. MLP uses cookie-cutter plots that have already been rehashed over and over again by every cartoon that has come before it, and that's not a flaw that can be debated. It uses flash animation, which is the most limited and least organic form of animation possible. That's not an opinion. Aside from very minor easter-egg references, none of the content in the show is made to appeal to anyone over the age of twelve. This is apparent by the character design, infantile moral messages, and the sincerity of overall friendship theme.

Just like you must accept that these things make MLP a bad show (for adults), anyone who likes Justin Bieber could have all of his flaws pointed out until they too had to accept that he is not a good music artist. There is good and bad art, and I don't know how you can even say that a drawing by a two year old being considered worse than a painting by Marc Chagall is just an opinion.


----------



## Conker (Dec 6, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Making seizure inducing, two-frame animations is significantly less difficult, however.


True, but now and then there are some pretty lengthy flash animations that do take time to make. Plus, the idea that he stops updating to "troll his fans" is really stupid. 



> >I realized I didn't really want this character, so now I'm going to make him suddenly die like a complete bitch just to get him out of the way


I don't see why that's a bad reason to kill off a character, especially when there are over 20 characters already. And it's not like any of the characters are really dead what with the dream bubbles going on.



> Pseudo-intellectual bullshit and needlessly complex side plots for the sole purpose of making it sound clever and ingenius when you're trying to explain it to someone, despite the fact that the entire story is nothing but a huge clusterfuck of Hussie tripping over his shoe laces and trying to fix everything by saying "I meant to do that"....No, silly. He had no intention of making any of that background shit  important to the plot in any way. Read my above reply. This, kids, is  what we call _half-assedness_. He's grabbing onto anything he can at this point to keep this trainwreck going for as long as possible.


It's not unheard of for an author of something to look back at what he started but never used for future inspiration. He may not have foreshadowed everything in Homestuck,but he still manages to make things fit together rather well. One of the things I really like about Homestuck is the callbacks and the like. I wouldn't call any of it half assed, but I also wouldn't call Homestuck a trainwreck, so we are already on two differing viewpoints. 



> He's a fuckup now. His glorious Problem Sleuth days are over. Why can't you accept this?


That's a high matter of opinion. I find Homestuck to be better than Problem Sleuth.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 6, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> I can tell you exactly what's wrong, in detail, with all of the things you mentioned that you say is impossible to say whether they are bad or not. MLP uses cookie-cutter plots that have already been rehashed over and over again by every cartoon that has come before it, and that's not a flaw that can be debated. It uses flash animation, which is the most limited and least organic form of animation possible. That's not an opinion. Aside from very minor easter-egg references, none of the content in the show is made to appeal to anyone over the age of twelve. This is apparent by the character design, infantile moral messages, and the sincerity of overall friendship theme.


There are only so many plots in the world yo. The pieces can be rearranged to make a story seem different, but most everything has been done before. I think MLP: FiM at least adds some novelty and enjoyability to these well-worn morals. Even though I know how the story will end I enjoy the ride. Also maybe you haven't heard this before, but the creator of the show, Lauren Faust, intended for the show to be entertaining to people of any age. I think she succeeded. 

Anyway back to Homestuck. It occurs to me that at the end of the day I don't care about Hussie's attitude, fame, or infamy. The story itself is what I'm judging. It's all over the place. One page we're on the moon, the next we're in some obscure character's ghost-dream-vision. I like the challenge of sorting everything out, picking out all the nuances and implications. I guess it's the Ninja Gaiden of web comics? It's good, and many people will try it, but it's simply not something one can get into half-heartedly. 

I don't have the experience to judge Hussie's writing, but I like it. The emotional scenes are touching, the action scenes are dope, and the comedic scenes are hilarious. That's really all I need. Man I don't know about Homestuck being better than Problem Sleuth. I guess PS has a special place in my heart that Homestuck could never touch. Other than that I like Homestuck more.


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 7, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> What world do you come from that it isn't obvious that Rembrandts belong in a museum while PewdiePie fanart belongs in the trash?


I guess a world that can appreciate both professional and amateur art? If we were both presented with a drawing of PewDiePie you could say it's bad all you want but if I find enough things about the drawing that I like then I will still say it's a good picture. Neither of us are right or wrong. Besides, the things that you don't like about something could be the same things that I like about it.



Streetcircus said:


> I can tell you exactly what's wrong, in detail, with all of the things you mentioned that you say is impossible to say whether they are bad or not. MLP uses cookie-cutter plots that have already been rehashed over and over again by every cartoon that has come before it, and that's not a flaw that can be debated. It uses flash animation, which is the most limited and least organic form of animation possible. That's not an opinion. Aside from very minor easter-egg references, none of the content in the show is made to appeal to anyone over the age of twelve. This is apparent by the character design, infantile moral messages, and the sincerity of overall friendship theme.


You make a lot of good points (aside from the comment about the show now being made to appeal to anyone over the age of twelve. You obviously haven't done your research there), and they are valid reasons for you to dislike the show, but does that make it bad? Maybe to you, but not to me. One of the reasons you think the show is bad is because of the character design. Well, the character design is one of the reasons I actually like the show. I like the simple and fluid animation style, I like how the personalities of the characters are relatable, I like the shows writing (even though it's usually predictable they tell it in a way that keeps my interest and so I still find it entertaining).
So, do your reasons as to why the show are bad mean that the show is actually bad? No. Do my reasons as to why the show is good mean that the show is actually good? No. These are just things that we see in the show and we decide based on those things whether or not we THINK it's good or bad.




Streetcircus said:


> Just like you must accept that these things make MLP a bad show (for adults), anyone who likes Justin Bieber could have all of his flaws pointed out until they too had to accept that he is not a good music artist.



There is no such thing as a perfect TV show, otherwise there would be a show that EVERYBODY liked. Every show has its good and its bad and yes, I can accept that the things you pointed out are flaws of the show, but that does not make the show bad. You don't like the show because you find more things that you dislike about the show than things you like about it, and I like the show because I find more things that I like about it than dislike. Those things that we like and dislike are all opinions




Streetcircus said:


> There is good and bad art, and I don't know how you can even say that a drawing by a two year old being considered worse than a painting by Marc Chagall is just an opinion.



There is no universally good or bad art, it is just based on ones standards, and those standards are different for each individual. I think that I can safely say that a two year olds art would be considered worse than something Marc Chagall, but the reason as to why is very simple. We can find more things we like about Marc's painting than we dislike, but we can find more things we dislike about the two year olds drawing than things we like. According to most peoples standards Marc's art would be better.


----------



## Heliophobic (Dec 7, 2012)

Conker said:


> I don't see why that's a bad reason to kill off a character, especially when there are over 20 characters already.



Not when you're _this_ fucking lazy about it.



> And it's not like any of the characters are really dead what with the dream bubbles going on.



The dream bubbles are yet another device for his benefit. He gets to ignore the dead characters for as long as he wants. The fans are happy because they're supposedly in a heaven-like realm. Then, when he wants one back, he simply resurrects them. It's brilliant.



> He may not have foreshadowed everything in Homestuck,but he still manages to make things fit together rather well.



Too well if you ask me.

I'm into the whole "prophecy" thing. I really am. But there's a point where you're completely overdoing it, and Hussie has clearly passed it.




> That's a high matter of opinion. I find Homestuck to be better than Problem Sleuth.



HERESY.



Streetcircus said:


> What world do you come from that it isn't obvious that Rembrandts belong in a museum while PewdiePie fanart belongs in the trash? It's not that difficult to determine that more thought and skill has been put into a composition than another. You look at things like complexity, creativity, and the effective use of founded artistic principles.



I think you're confusing good and bad with the concept of patrician and plebeian, but other than that I generally agree with you.


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 7, 2012)

Well I can this I love Homestuck and everyone has the opinion on the comic itself so I'll leave u guys to go back and forth on why homestuck is amazing :3

jw who here is on the update and has not skip acts?


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 7, 2012)

viviboi I'm like thirty pages away from being caught up. I just started being [Caliborn]


----------



## Heliophobic (Dec 7, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> jw who here is on the update and has not skip acts?



Who the fuck skips acts? That's like jumping to random chapters in a movie you've never seen.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 7, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Who the fuck skips acts? That's like jumping to random chapters in a movie you've never seen.


<--- Me. I did. Right here. Posted it earlier.

Skipped right past the entire troll act, started on the next one where the kids left off. Checked out the mspaint wiki for info on the occasions I got confused. Couldn't stand the sudden narrative shift to irrelevant characters and terrible personality gimmicks. I regret nothing.


----------



## viviboi9 (Dec 7, 2012)

Kazooie said:


> <--- Me. I did. Right here. Posted it earlier.
> 
> Skipped right past the entire troll act, started on the next one where the kids left off. Checked out the mspaint wiki for info on the occasions I got confused. Couldn't stand the sudden narrative shift to irrelevant characters and terrible personality gimmicks. I regret nothing.



the troll act was the best :3 n dont skip in the future u will lots of details


----------



## Tf'd Toucan (Dec 7, 2012)

I heard about this from a friend yesterday, and it seems like a very interesting, and minorly disturbing plot.  I am going to quote her "Homestuck has been the greatest part of my life, but it has also been the worst from constantly reading it."


----------



## Conker (Dec 7, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Not when you're _this_ fucking lazy about it.


I guess there's a bias there since I found that character to be absolute shit and was happy he died.



> The dream bubbles are yet another device for his benefit. He gets to ignore the dead characters for as long as he wants. The fans are happy because they're supposedly in a heaven-like realm. Then, when he wants one back, he simply resurrects them. It's brilliant.


Okay. I'm not a member of the fandom in that I don't talk about the webcomic with anyone. I just read it when it updates. If there's an official forum, I don't know about it. I'm a fan in that I like the story and I like what he's doing, but that's as far as I go. If he wants to kill off characters, well shit, there he goes. I like the dynamic he has going though, and I don't mind the dream bubbles since he makes some fun jokes with them. I find it all interesting at any rate. And maybe he is pandering to fans of his, but since I'm unaware of such things, I can't really comment. If he is, then he found a brilliant way to do it, so good for him? I dunno.



> Too well if you ask me.
> 
> I'm into the whole "prophecy" thing. I really am. But there's a point where you're completely overdoing it, and Hussie has clearly passed it.


And opinions are what they are. I'm enjoying what he's doing. 



> HERESY.


NOPE.JPG


----------



## Toshabi (Dec 7, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Who the fuck skips acts? That's like jumping to random chapters in a movie you've never seen.




Homestuck is flooded with a shitload of retarded acts that you're suppose to skip. That's why I finished reading it before starting it. :B


----------



## Azure (Dec 7, 2012)

This thread in a nutshell


----------



## CannonFodder (Dec 7, 2012)

I read a bit cause I'm bored out of my mind and I skipped to act five and it's a good story, it's just not my thing and don't see myself continuing on with it or becoming a member of the fanbase or reading any further or such.  If someone else is just getting into it I'd suggest skipping to act five also.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 7, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> I read a bit cause I'm bored out of my mind and I skipped to act five and it's a good story, it's just not my thing and don't see myself continuing on with it or becoming a member of the fanbase or reading any further or such.  If someone else is just getting into it I'd suggest skipping to act five also.


Ugh, no, Act 1 has all of the data structure jokes. Do not skip the data structure jokes they are important. Finding humour in comparing the behviour of a queue vs a stack is what defines yourself as a human being.


----------



## Heliophobic (Dec 7, 2012)

Kazooie said:


> Ugh, no, Act 1 has all of the data structure jokes. Do not skip the data structure jokes they are important. Finding humour in comparing the behviour of a queue vs a stack is what defines yourself as a human being.



I fucking hated the queue modus, which is precisely why I loved using it when I had that stupid Sylladex thing installed on my desktop. I am a masochist of the worst sort.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 8, 2012)

Conker said:


> Okay. I'm not a member of the fandom in that I don't talk about the webcomic with anyone. I just read it when it updates. If there's an official forum, I don't know about it. I'm a fan in that I like the story and I like what he's doing, but that's as far as I go. If he wants to kill off characters, well shit, there he goes. I like the dynamic he has going though, and I don't mind the dream bubbles since he makes some fun jokes with them. I find it all interesting at any rate. And maybe he is pandering to fans of his, but since I'm unaware of such things, I can't really comment. If he is, then he found a brilliant way to do it, so good for him? I dunno.


I am the same way. 

I guess my favorite segments of HS are 'Horrorstuck,' because I'm a fan of horror in general and the current act because everything is starting to come together. Once the kids and Trolls meet in person I really started to enjoy things because there was less time-skipping, paradox, computer nonsense.


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 8, 2012)

Vukasin said:


> I guess a world that can appreciate both professional and amateur art? If we were both presented with a drawing of PewDiePie you could say it's bad all you want but if I find enough things about the drawing that I like then I will still say it's a good picture. Neither of us are right or wrong. Besides, the things that you don't like about something could be the same things that I like about it.
> 
> 
> You make a lot of good points (aside from the comment about the show now being made to appeal to anyone over the age of twelve. You obviously haven't done your research there), and they are valid reasons for you to dislike the show, but does that make it bad? Maybe to you, but not to me. One of the reasons you think the show is bad is because of the character design. Well, the character design is one of the reasons I actually like the show. I like the simple and fluid animation style, I like how the personalities of the characters are relatable, I like the shows writing (even though it's usually predictable they tell it in a way that keeps my interest and so I still find it entertaining).
> ...



What you like and what is objectively good is completely separate. I think most people who listen to metal music don't actually think it sounds that good - if they're being honest with themselves. They like it because they think it's cool to listen to it, but then the actual music is not the appeal. Saying you like metal music is not the same as saying that it has merit as art. There is one standard to determine if art is inherently good or bad, and what people do and don't like can be based on their own experiences - or in the case of Justin Bieber, their shortcomings.

Also, I think I mentioned the minor references to things that appeal to adults in MLP, and that is probably why they say the show is intended to appeal to all ages, but those references add absolutely no substance to the show. The character designs are childish and superficial. The eyes are unreasonably large, the hair would make a Barbie envious, and they're saturated in princess magic, which are all things that you lose interest in if you are male or reach the age of twelve. The animation is simple, but not fluid. Watch Tom and Jerry, which is over half a century old now, and you will see how flash animation is incapable of producing anything that can be considered fluid. I also wonder how it's possible that an adult could relate to characters that act babyish and excessively sweet and sentimental. I hope you don't act that way.


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 8, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> What you like and what is objectively good is completely separate.


No, it's not. What I am trying to get at here is that when it comes to art there is no "objectively good". You either like it and think it's good, or dislike it and think it's bad. And like I mentioned before, something you don't like about a picture can be the same thing that I like about the picture so it's impossible for there to be any sort of scale to determine whether or not it's objectively good or bad.



Streetcircus said:


> I think most people who listen to metal music don't actually think it sounds that good - if they're being honest with themselves. They like it because they think it's cool to listen to it, but then the actual music is not the appeal.


I don't even know how you could ever think that this is the case. People wouldn't listen to metal (or any other type of music) if they didn't find it appealing. That just doesn't make any sense. I could go on for days about how great and appealing I find metal to be, how it's the best genre of music in my opinion and I could link you my favourite songs and break them all down and tell you why, in extreme detail, why I love them and yada yada, but that's for a different debate.

Once again it's another case of "Just because you don't find it appealing doesn't mean that it's the same way for everyone else." We all have different opinions.




Streetcircus said:


> Also, I think I mentioned the minor references to things that appeal to adults in MLP, and that is probably why they say the show is intended to appeal to all ages, but those references add absolutely no substance to the show.


No, that is not why it is intended to appeal to all ages. Do you really think there is an entire fandom of people watching MLP and creating art/music/animation/conventions just because the show adds a few references here and there? No, of course not. The show would still be just as popular even if it didn't have those references. 




Streetcircus said:


> The character designs are childish and superficial. The eyes are unreasonably large, the hair would make a Barbie envious, and they're saturated in princess magic, which are all things that you lose interest in if you are male or reach the age of twelve. The animation is simple, but not fluid. Watch Tom and Jerry, which is over half a century old now, and you will see how flash animation is incapable of producing anything that can be considered fluid.


Once again these are all things that _YOU_ don't like about the show, but they are things that _I_ like about the show (Though I'm not sure what you mean by "Saturated in princess magic, and I disagree with you when you say the animation isn't fluid). I love the big eyes, and I am a fan of their hairstyles. To me, the character design is great!

These are things that you see in the show and based on those things you find that the show is not very appealing in your opinion, and that's totally fine, you don't have to like it. Like I said before there is no such thing as a show that EVERYBODY enjoys. But just because you find these flaws doesn't mean that the show is actually bad, and most of these "flaws" that you see are things that other people (like myself) enjoy about the show, so you can't use those reasons to determine the show is objectively bad (or good in my case).




Streetcircus said:


> I also wonder how it's possible that an adult could relate to characters that act babyish and excessively sweet and sentimental. I hope you don't act that way.


The fact that you think the characters act babyish and excessively sweet means you really haven't taken a very good look at the show. Go do your homework and come back.

All it takes is a few episodes to show you how relatable the characters are. They have their own personalities, their own character strengths and weaknesses, and none of them are even close to how you describe them

Here, have a critical character analysis


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 9, 2012)

Vukasin said:


> No, it's not. What I am trying to get at here is that when it comes to art there is no "objectively good". You either like it and think it's good, or dislike it and think it's bad. And like I mentioned before, something you don't like about a picture can be the same thing that I like about the picture so it's impossible for there to be any sort of scale to determine whether or not it's objectively good or bad.



People go to film school to learn what separates a good film from a bad one, and film critics almost unanimously agree on what the greatest movies of all time are. They measure it based on skill and creativity. The more educated a film critic is, the more they are able to appreciate the skill used to make a movie like Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane has more value as art than a SyFy original movie. It's objectively a better movie than Sharktopus. To acknowledge that Citizen Kane is the best movie you've ever seen isn't to say that it is your favorite. You may like Sharktopus better because you like dumb monsters, but your affinity for dumb monsters is completely separate from your appreciation for Sharktopus as a work of art. Suggesting that whatever you think is good, is, is just bleeding-heart liberal nonsense. Some people are just really stupid, and they like things because they are stupid, and something that can only be appreciated if you are really stupid is objectively bad.




Vukasin said:


> I don't even know how you could ever think that this is the case. People wouldn't listen to metal (or any other type of music) if they didn't find it appealing. That just doesn't make any sense. I could go on for days about how great and appealing I find metal to be, how it's the best genre of music in my opinion and I could link you my favourite songs and break them all down and tell you why, in extreme detail, why I love them and yada yada, but that's for a different debate.



I'm sure metal heads love the fact that metal music embodies rebelliousness, and that their heads swirl with images of themselves in a long coat, riding a motorcycle, and carrying their favorite weapon from an obnoxious Japanese video game, but do they actually think it's good music? Can music be considered good if you wouldn't think so if you grew out of your teenage angst? Angst is the appeal, not the actual sound of the music, and you can't say music is objectively good if you can only think so if you harbor I-hate-my-mommy feelings of angst.




Vukasin said:


> No, that is not why it is intended to appeal to all ages. Do you really think there is an entire fandom of people watching MLP and creating art/music/animation/conventions just because the show adds a few references here and there? No, of course not. The show would still be just as popular even if it didn't have those references.
> 
> Once again these are all things that _YOU_ don't like about the show, but they are things that _I_ like about the show (Though I'm not sure what you mean by "Saturated in princess magic, and I disagree with you when you say the animation isn't fluid). I love the big eyes, and I am a fan of their hairstyles. To me, the character design is great!
> 
> ...



It would be very easy for you to dismiss my criticisms of MLP if I had not watched even an entire episode, but this is not the case. Not only have I seen over ten full episodes of the show, I have had numerous fans provide specific examples of what they think makes the show good. I have had extensive debates with passionate bronies, and I can only conclude that all MLP fans are either under the age of twelve, or emotionally crippled.

The references are a convenient excuse used by older males to justify watching a show intended for little girls. The actual appeal has more to do with an infantile fascination with cuteness, and the immature desire to latch on to fads like lemmings.

The princess magic should be obvious. My God, there are princesses and magic in every episode, what could you possibly be unsure about? These are concepts based on "little girl pretend time", and Hasbro specifically stereotyped little girls to create something that would cause them to spend their parents' money. The animation isn't fluid, it just isn't. Flash animation cannot simulate the same level of organic motion that hundreds of artists hand-drawing every detail can. John Kricfalusi has a blog that explains the benefits of traditional animation over Flash. Flash is used to spew out standard quality animation as quickly and as cheaply as possible. Praising Flash animation for its quality is like praising a whopper for its nutritional value.

The hair and eyes are designed on a corporate level, and are meant to give the ponies the impression of having the same glamour as Paris Hilton. For comparison, Mattel has taken the same dispicable approach with their Monster High dolls:

http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2010/08/Monster-High-Mattel.png

Look familiar?

And, are you honestly going to try and tell me that Pinkie Pie doesn't act babyish and sweet? Even the names are undeniably babyish. They all act very sentimental and gush about friendship and caring. Not babyish and sweet? Give me a break. Do other young adult female cartoon characters have cutesy names, talk in sentimental voices, and learn lessons about friendship? Nope. Also, how are the characters in MLP any more relatable than any other character in any other television show? All characters have their own personalities. I personally relate to more maturely designed and complexly written characters than some Care Bears rip-offs with fabulous hair and pony magic.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 9, 2012)

Streetcircus your posts are always good for a laugh. Ironic given your fursona. I'm not sure I've met anyone with a more closed mind. 

Just wanted to say that I am of course behind Vukasin on everything he's said. Also, on-topic, Homestuck is awesome.


----------



## Judge Spear (Dec 9, 2012)

viviboi9 said:


> um, this is the man who, in the first 10 pages of his webcomic, when we knew little to nothing about the main character (and hadn't even met anyone else), was already foreshadowing for 6000 pages in the future. count the zeroes, please. this is the man who can consistently keep track of about 20 plot lines, maybe even more, all at the same time. this is the glorious man who has probably about 100 main characters, not mentioning all the minor characters he has. this man actually listens to his fans, actually LISTENS, unlike many many MANY other popular artists. please, use your common sense and expand on your vocabulary while you're at it.



YOU said he trolls his own fans... I rest my case.

And I don't need to expand diddly dick, but just for you, I will. Cause I like ya like that.
 While indeed quite vulgar, the swear word "shitty" is a staple of the modern English vernacular utilized frequently in common everyday communication. Adults, adolescents, seniors, and in rare cases even infants may find their tongues spouting such deplorable language. It is mainstream and accepted. Therefore, I use it as I see appropriate. In the evident case of this Hussie character's trolling based upon your own words (quoted), his writing talent is equal to that of bovine/equine/canine excrement. I am not judging his person, but his style of writing. I'm sure he is quite the splendid individual, but he can spare me his writing.

Well this isn't exactly "expanding" considering I didn't have to look up jack shit, but you get the idea.
Happy? :3


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 9, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> People go to film school to learn what separates a good film from a bad one, and film critics almost unanimously agree on what the greatest movies of all time are. They measure it based on skill and creativity. The more educated a film critic is, the more they are able to appreciate the skill used to make a movie like Citizen Kane.


You've used this argument already, but in the form of someone with a musical doctorate.


Vukasin said:


> He can tell me why I am, in his opinion, wrong, but that doesn't mean he's right. His doctorate in music means that he has a great amount of knowledge in music history, theory, composition, performance or whatever else you can specialize in. They don't become the ultimate musical judges of the world, and it doesn't mean that whatever they say is bad is actually bad. It's just their opinion.
> 
> Besides, just like everyone else those people with music doctorates will all have different opinions. What if you had one who didn't like Beiber and the other did?


Just replace all the music parts with film parts.

Film school will help you learn tips and tricks that will teach you how to avoid making a movie that the general population will dislike, and instead produce movies that will appeal to a great amount of people. Things like shaking the camera during car chases/races to add intensity or consistently changing camera angle during certain scenes are things that will keep the audience interested and engaged, and if the audience is interested and engaged then you have a good movie. If the critic likes the movie as well, then fine, but that doesn't mean it's a universally good movie. If the critic dislikes the movies instead, then that's fine too, but that doesn't mean it's a universally bad movie. All in all it's just a piece of art that some people like, and some people don't.



Streetcircus said:


> I'm sure metal heads love the fact that metal music embodies rebelliousness, and that their heads swirl with images of themselves in a long coat, riding a motorcycle, and carrying their favorite weapon from an obnoxious Japanese video game, but do they actually think it's good music? Can music be considered good if you wouldn't think so if you grew out of your teenage angst? Angst is the appeal, not the actual sound of the music, and you can't say music is objectively good if you can only think so if you harbor I-hate-my-mommy feelings of angst.


You have got to be the most closed minded person I've ever talked to.

Let me introduce you to my 2 favourite bands:

First we have Dream Theater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTwk1UuGJIA 

Dream Theater is a band made up of a group of 5 people who all met while attending Berklee College of Music. Berklee is one of the largest, most well known and highly respected music schools in the world. Every single member of Dream Theater has 1 or multiple degrees in music from this school. Dream Theater is credited with pioneering one of the most musically technical and most difficult genres to compose of all time: Progressive metal. This syle focuses on complex time signatures, tempo changes, technically proficient riffs and clean precise guitar playing. These songs tend to be very long in length (Dream Theater has several songs over 20 minutes) and physically taxing to play.

Now, on to the critics:
The song that I linked above is from the album _Systematic Chaos_ which received very, very high ratings. (The following are all professional reviews)
- About.com gave the album a 4/5 (http://heavymetal.about.com/od/cdreviews/fr/dreamtheatersys.htm) 
- Dangerdog gave the album a 5/5 (http://www.dangerdog.com/0807.php#Dream Theater - Systematic Chaos)
- Metaly gave the album a 5/5 (http://metally.net/albums/systematic-chaos/)

Need I go on?

Just too prove my point further I'll do one more.

This is Dethklok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyModBzd19I

Dethklok is made up of just one person. His name is Brendon Small. Brendon Small, just like the members of Dream Theater, has graduated from Berklee College of Music and has several musical degrees. Dethklok's music falls under the genre of "Melodic Death Metal". Melodic Death Metal is a genre that characterized as having heavy, pounding guitar riffs, focus on technical drum patterns and blast beats, multiple guitars playing several harmony lines at once, and as the title suggests focus on melody throughout the song. The vocal style can generally be anything, from clean, screaming, and growling. Sometimes a mix of all 3.

What do the critics think? (Again, all of these are professional reviews)
The song above is from the album _Dethalbum III_
- About.com gave this album a 4.5/5 (http://heavymetal.about.com/od/dethklok/fr/Dethklok-Dethalbum-Iii-Review.htm)
- Allmusic.com gave this album a 4.5/5 (http://www.allmusic.com/album/mw0002416256)
- Loudwire gave the album a 4/5 (http://loudwire.com/dethklok-dethalbum-iii-album-review/)

Do these bands have any angst? No. Do they talk about hating their moms? No. Do they wear trench coats and makes songs about riding a motorcycle while holding their favourite weapon from a Japanese video game? No. Is it made by angsty teenagers? No. In fact, the music is made by people who all have degrees in music.

Will you like these bands? Probably not, but based on your arguments you have no choice but to say that these bands are good, and that the appeal of metal is the music. Or you can say that you don't like these bands and that good music is an opinion based on ones standards.



Streetcircus said:


> Snipping this section to avoid quoting a large wall of text


Look, I have given you my reasons as to why I like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. If you've already had this debate with other bronies then what point is there in trying to have yet another one with me? If you don't get the appeal then that's fine. If you think it's just some girly TV show then that's fine. If you don't like the show then that's fine. I'm not bothered in the slightest. Like I said, not everyone will enjoy it. 

If you want to live in your delusional little world where everyone who watches the show is "emotionally crippled" then go right ahead. I'll be over here respecting other people and their interests and using up my time to watch/do things that I enjoy rather than sitting on my high horse and looking down at a large group of people and judging them based on views that lack any backbone.

Perhaps you're in need of the magic of friendship.


----------



## Conker (Dec 9, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> Some people are just really stupid, and they like things because they are stupid, and something that can only be appreciated if you are really stupid is objectively bad.


I'm going to agree with you and say that art can be objectively bad. However, when you use the word "objective" you're bringing certain things to the table. Appreciation for art is subjective, so the only things that wind up being objective are things that can be measured. Can a song be objectively bad? Yes. If the singer cannot sing, that song is objectively bad. How do we define "cannot sing" though? Well, he can't hit the right notes that the song requires. Perhaps he forgets words. Those are things that can be measured though. I'm an objectively bad singer because I cannot sing. Can the lyrics to a song be objectively bad? Yes, but that wouldn't have anything to do with their content. If the lyrics hold no rhythm or don't fit with the music, then they are bad song lyrics. But if the lyrics are about something you don't like, that doesn't make them bad, that just means you don't like them.



> I'm sure metal heads love the fact that metal music embodies rebelliousness, and that their heads swirl with images of themselves in a long coat, riding a motorcycle, and carrying their favorite weapon from an obnoxious Japanese video game, but do they actually think it's good music? Can music be considered good if you wouldn't think so if you grew out of your teenage angst? Angst is the appeal, not the actual sound of the music, and you can't say music is objectively good if you can only think so if you harbor I-hate-my-mommy feelings of angst.


What is this I don't even. I can't fathom how your mind works. "I don't like something, so no one else likes it either." Really? 

It's not like every other genre of music can be broken down that way either. "People who only like country are just unsophisticated because all that music is about is drinking beer and looking at trucks" 

I mean, what you just said isn't even an argument.

Oh look, your MLP spout is exactly the same as your music one!


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 10, 2012)

Conker said:


> Can a song be objectively bad? Yes. If the singer cannot sing, that song is objectively bad. How do we define "cannot sing" though? Well, he can't hit the right notes that the song requires. Perhaps he forgets words. Those are things that can be measured though. I'm an objectively bad singer because I cannot sing. Can the lyrics to a song be objectively bad? Yes, but that wouldn't have anything to do with their content. If the lyrics hold no rhythm or don't fit with the music, then they are bad song lyrics. But if the lyrics are about something you don't like, that doesn't make them bad, that just means you don't like them.


This is actually a really good point, though singing out of key, singing out of rhythm, and having lyrics that don't fit the music are more like guidelines rather than rules, and just because a song is lacking in any of those areas doesn't mean that song can't be good.

I'll show you what I mean:

Singing out of key, but still a good song to the general public: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svTuSRiFPoc
Same with this song, though to a lesser extent. He does slide out of key often though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHfY6VTRUFk

Lyrics that don't fit the music, but still well liked by the general public: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlBnJ0egT_4

Offbeat vocals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6_zsJ8KPP0
(This is mostly only during the first two verses, though later on in the song some lines have too many syllables)

Also, in the song above (from 3:32 - 4:24) the guitar is very offbeat. So much so that it doesn't even musically fit into the song at all. It's crazy and chaotic, but among fans it's one of the best parts of the song.
Another example of that would be in this song at 1:06 - 1:22: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8ZqFlw6hYg


----------



## Streetcircus (Dec 10, 2012)

Vukasin said:


> You've used this argument already, but in the form of someone with a musical doctorate.
> 
> Just replace all the music parts with film parts.
> 
> Film school will help you learn tips and tricks that will teach you how to avoid making a movie that the general population will dislike, and instead produce movies that will appeal to a great amount of people. Things like shaking the camera during car chases/races to add intensity or consistently changing camera angle during certain scenes are things that will keep the audience interested and engaged, and if the audience is interested and engaged then you have a good movie. If the critic likes the movie as well, then fine, but that doesn't mean it's a universally good movie. If the critic dislikes the movies instead, then that's fine too, but that doesn't mean it's a universally bad movie. All in all it's just a piece of art that some people like, and some people don't.





Vukasin said:


> This is actually a really good point, though singing out of key, singing out of rhythm, and having lyrics that don't fit the music are more like guidelines rather than rules, and just because a song is lacking in any of those areas doesn't mean that song can't be good.



I tried to make a similar argument before, but it was clear that you either didn't understand what I was trying to get across, or that you just decided to ignore it. I see what the issue is now, you thought Conker was making a good point that you hadn't considered when he suggested that good singing can be determined by singing in key with proper pitch and tone quality. It is also your incorrect assumption that learning how to make films in school means learning tips and tricks like shaking the camera during a car chase scene. I thought these things were just common sense, but apparently they need to be explained.

Just like a music teacher will show you how to produce a proper sound while singing, you will learn how to make a proper film in film school. Not shaking cameras and sound effects, but how to structure your film so that the story moves from the exposition to the resolution. It's possible to have a film with no plot structure, and you may like that kind of film, but it isn't the correct way to tell a story if that's your intention. There are many founded principles in film that are proven to effectively activate that areas of the brain that respond to being entertained: different camera angles convey specific moods, appropriate pacing engages the audience, and suspension and anticipation are essential for immersion.

Studying and understanding these principles allows you to appreciate the amount of skill and creativity put into a film, while most people will acknowledge that a film is well-made but continue to watch stupid movies like Twilight, admitting that it isn't a good film like The Godfather is, but they just like it anyways. Being able to recognize why people acknowledge The Godfather to be a better film than Twilight makes a film critic's opinions more valuable than someone who just likes dumb entertainment.



Vukasin said:


> Let me introduce you to my 2 favourite bands:
> 
> First we have Dream Theater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTwk1UuGJIA
> 
> ...



I've never really understood how a music critic can rate a Bob Dylan album five stars, understanding it to be one of the greatest albums of all time, and then also rate a Ke$ha album the same, understanding that it is not even in the same class as the Bob Dylan album. From my understanding, they are actually rating the Ke$ha album by how much it will appeal to people who like similar music, but most would believe that it does not compare to the greatest music despite people's tastes.

I find it much more effective to compare what is generally accepted as the greatest music of all time to any music, and dissect what they have in common. Your favorite bands have excellent musicianship, and holding a mastery of your craft has to be appreciated, but besides that, they have very little in common with any of the songs that consistently rate among the very best of all time. The lyrics are mopey and dishonest, the melodies are drowned out by excessively complicated rhythms and distortion, and the complexity is only found on the instruments and not in the songwriting. 

Metacritic has these bands rated at average, and the artists may be making music that they like with their degrees, but are they trying to make great music, or just music that kids will think is cool?

The reason I continue to debate fans of MLP on the merits of it is because I want people to stop watching it. If you can defend your interest in the show, then I'll have no problem with you watching, but it doesn't seem that anyone can justify their interest in it.


----------



## Conker (Dec 10, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> Just like a music teacher will show you how to produce a proper sound while singing, you will learn how to make a proper film in film school. Not shaking cameras and sound effects, but how to structure your film so that the story moves from the exposition to the resolution. It's possible to have a film with no plot structure, and you may like that kind of film, *but it isn't the correct way to tell a story if that's your intention*. There are many founded principles in film that are proven to effectively activate that areas of the brain that respond to being entertained: different camera angles convey specific moods, appropriate pacing engages the audience, and suspension and anticipation are essential for immersion.


The idea that there is a "correct way" to tell a story or do anything in an artistic medium is why things go stagnant. Stagnant is worse than bad. There's at least something to bad; stagnant is only boring and forgettable. 



> I've never really understood how a music critic can rate a Bob Dylan album five stars, understanding it to be one of the greatest albums of all time, and then also rate a Ke$ha album the same, understanding that it is not even in the same class as the Bob Dylan album. From my understanding, they are actually rating the Ke$ha album by how much it will appeal to people who like similar music, but most would believe that it does not compare to the greatest music despite people's tastes.


Different genres of music are different? That's like saying you should review a first person shooter game on the exact same guidelines you would review an MMORPG. That doesn't work, though Ke$ha is still terrible.



> I find it much more effective to compare what is generally accepted as the greatest music of all time to any music, and dissect what they have in common. Your favorite bands have excellent musicianship, and holding a mastery of your craft has to be appreciated, but besides that, they have very little in common with any of the songs that consistently rate among the very best of all time.


Ah, so here's the problem then. Well. I just. I just don't know what to do with this. I think my mind broke or something, and I desperately just want to call you a "sheep" and leave it there, but I hate it when people use that word in this kind of context. But, I think I'm going to because I'm lazy.



> The reason I continue to debate fans of MLP on the merits of it is because I want people to stop watching it. If you can defend your interest in the show, then I'll have no problem with you watching, but it doesn't seem that anyone can justify their interest in it.


What kind of high-ass horse (pun intended) are you riding where you think that just because you tell someone the show they watch is shit that they'll immediately believe you and stop watching it? 

I do believe that people should be able to justify their beliefs, but I mostly hold that to things like philosophical ideals. Religion. Politics. I don't really consider it a pressing issue if someone likes a cartoon and can't really explain why. There's a difference between what we use to get enjoyment and what we use as guidelines on how our lives should be lived. Someone watching a bad cartoon doesn't effect me in the least; the same might not be said for something like religious beliefs. I can articulate why I like My Little Pony, but I find it hard to articulate why I like the music I like other than "it sounds good to my ear holes" which has always been a good enough explanation to those that ask.


----------



## Vukasin (Dec 10, 2012)

Streetcircus said:


> I tried to make a similar argument before, but it was clear that you either didn't understand what I was trying to get across, or that you just decided to ignore it. I see what the issue is now, you thought Conker was making a good point that you hadn't considered when he suggested that good singing can be determined by singing in key with proper pitch and tone quality.


No, I don't believe you made a similar argument before, and even if you did I guess I just answered to it now then? I pointed out several songs where all of those things were actually an artistic choice and work well with the song, therefore still not a good way to gauge whether or not a song is good or bad. 



Streetcircus said:


> It is also your incorrect assumption that learning how to make films in school means learning tips and tricks like shaking the camera during a car chase scene. I thought these things were just common sense, but apparently they need to be explained.



Obviously I didn't mean that's all they learned, I just used them as examples of techniques that are learned and help keep the audience engaged.




Streetcircus said:


> Just like a music teacher will show you how to produce a proper sound while singing, you will learn how to make a proper film in film school. Not shaking cameras and sound effects, but how to structure your film so that the story moves from the exposition to the resolution. It's possible to have a film with no plot structure, and you may like that kind of film, but it isn't the correct way to tell a story if that's your intention.


Yes, true. When you learn how to properly structure a film that doesn't mean that if you don't do it that way then your movie is automatically bad though. It is just a guideline and has proven to be popular with the general public because everything is properly paced and keeps the story from getting stale. If people think your plot is stale then they will dislike the movie and call it bad. If they find your plot entertaining and well paced then then will like it and call it good.

If someone didn't follow these structures that wouldn't mean that the movie is bad though. They could make an entirely new structure that people could find entertaining. As long as they keep the interest of the audience they will consider it at good movie. Then again, not everyone is going to like a certain structure. One structure that someone find entertaining will be hated by someone else who will call it boring. It's all about your opinion.




Streetcircus said:


> There are many founded principles in film that are proven to effectively activate that areas of the brain that respond to being entertained: different camera angles convey specific moods, appropriate pacing engages the audience, and suspension and anticipation are essential for immersion.



Yes, I completely agree. Everyone is different though, so not everybody is going to be effected the same way. I'll use Paranormal Activity as my example.

Paranormal Activity is a movie that is very well known for it's ability to keep the audience is suspense. When it's dark and silent they played a low sub-bass tone they made the audience think something was going to happen and kept them on the edge of their seat. If you've seen the movie then you'll know what I'm talking about. The low sub-bass tone worked well on me and what seemed the be the majority of the people who saw it. There were people who weren't effected the same way though. My friends saw it and said that they found the bass tone annoying, and that they got bored of all the quiet parts and wanted something exciting to happen. In my opinion the movie was good, but in the opinion of a few of my friends the movie was bad.




Streetcircus said:


> Studying and understanding these principles allows you to appreciate the amount of skill and creativity put into a film


Yes, I agree once again. When you understand these principles it makes your standards change though. When your standards rise, like yours obviously have, it makes it more difficult to appreciate movies that aren't necessarily 5 star quality. When you watch a movie then in order for it to be good it has to match up to your standards of what makes a good movie. A critic is obviously harder to please than someone like me, so what I call a good movie a critic may call a bad movie. A ton of movies that I love have really low ratings from critics, but they are still popular to a large amount of people.




Streetcircus said:


> while most people will acknowledge that a film is well-made but continue to watch stupid movies like Twilight, admitting that it isn't a good film like The Godfather is, but they just like it anyways.


Yeah, some people will say that, but there are people out there who legitimately like Twilight more than The Godfather. People will like Twilight more if it appeals to more things they like than The Godfather. But just because you and I think otherwise doesn't mean we're right. It just means we have different standards of what makes a good movie. Everyone has a different opinion.




Streetcircus said:


> Being able to recognize why people acknowledge The Godfather to be a better film than Twilight makes a film critic's opinions more valuable than someone who just likes dumb entertainment.



Maybe to you, but not to people like me. When it comes to looking at movies I will completely ignore the opinions of critics. That's simply because I know that my standards are different than theirs and just because they say a movie is bad doesn't mean that me and a large amount of other people will think it's bad as well.

An example of this would be the Jackass movies. Critics hate those movies, and think they are terrible. However, the Jackass movies have an incredibly large fanbase.




Streetcircus said:


> I've never really understood how a music critic can rate a Bob Dylan album five stars, understanding it to be one of the greatest albums of all time, and then also rate a Ke$ha album the same, understanding that it is not even in the same class as the Bob Dylan album.



Just because YOU think that a Ke$ha album isn't in the same class as a Bob Dylan album doesn't mean you're right, and I have no idea why you would ever think so.




Streetcircus said:


> From my understanding, they are actually rating the Ke$ha album by how much it will appeal to people who like similar music



You're so close man, you're almost there. They actually rate the album based on how well it's done according the the standards that the critics have when it comes to that style of music. They wouldn't rate a pop song the same way they rate a Bob Dylan song because that would make any sense.




Streetcircus said:


> but most would believe that it does not compare to the greatest music despite people's tastes.



A Ke$ha fan could very well believe that Ke$ha's music is the greatest music ever. Not everyone will agree, most won't in fact, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. It's just their opinion and they are allowed to have it.




Streetcircus said:


> I find it much more effective to compare what is generally accepted as the greatest music of all time to any music, and dissect what they have in common.



Well that's not effective at all. You are comparing one genre to a different genre which doesn't make any sense. Like Conker said, you don't rate an FPS the same way you rate an MMORPG.




Streetcircus said:


> Your favorite bands have excellent musicianship, and holding a mastery of your craft has to be appreciated, but besides that, they have very little in common with any of the songs that consistently rate among the very best of all time. The lyrics are mopey and dishonest, the melodies are drowned out by excessively complicated rhythms and distortion, and the complexity is only found on the instruments and not in the songwriting.



And that's your opinion. Is your opinion right? No. Is it wrong? No. My favourite bands just don't meet your standards and that's okay.




Streetcircus said:


> Metacritic has these bands rated at average



Like I've been saying over and over, different critics will have different opinions. Neither of them are right nor wrong.




Streetcircus said:


> and the artists may be making music that they like with their degrees, but are they trying to make great music, or just music that kids will think is cool?


This seems to be the argument that you keep coming back to and I continue to wonder why. This argument has absolutely no backbone to it and I can't even fathom as to how such an idea got into your head. It's incredibly obvious that people of all ages listen to and create it.




Streetcircus said:


> The reason I continue to debate fans of MLP on the merits of it is because I want people to stop watching it.



Doesn't it suck to live in a world where people don't conform to your tastes?

Conker has pretty much hit the nail on the head here, so I won't bother repeating.


----------

