# I need help



## Nakhi (Jan 29, 2009)

I do not ask for help unless I really need it. I am planning on starting my first furry story. I have experience writing, but I have trouble with details and (in this case) having a good variety of species. Not only that, but I do not have any ideas.
EDIT: I prefer stories about war, diplomacy, nations, armies. I can work with that. 
NOT EDITED: Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.


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## Gavrill (Jan 29, 2009)

PM me, I write quite a bit. This problem sounds kind of vague, but remember: species always have alternatives to what you're used to.

Want a clever, playful character that's not a fox? Try a bluejay or a raccoon. Just think like that. :>

Or even better, make the species conflict with the personality. Like a timid wolf or a clumsy big cat.


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## Xipoid (Jan 29, 2009)

A variety of species is only a necessary as you deem so. So long as you have some kind of device or logical ideal that explains why exactly things appear as they do you should be fine. There is no real need to have an abundance of species all running about unless you ordain it so.


As for your lack of ideas, you will have to be more specific.


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## Nakhi (Jan 29, 2009)

By lack of ideas I mean I cannot think of anything new. I have exhausted my creativity on the story I just finished.


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## Xipoid (Jan 29, 2009)

Well, to refresh your creativity you could always do something besides write. You might find some inspiration somewhere. Perhaps read a book, take a walk, watch a movie, drive around, or just plain relax.


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## Nakhi (Jan 29, 2009)

Read a book: Reading 5 right now

Take a walk: I'll consider it, but remember I am in Cincinnati (could be worse though)

Watch a Movie: Not a bad idea, any recommendations?

Drive around: Easier with a car

Relax: I wish it was possible


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## Xipoid (Jan 29, 2009)

I'm not much of a movie person, but you could always do The Producers, Spartacus, Gladiator, or perhaps even Shawshank Redemption.


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## Nakhi (Jan 29, 2009)

Shwshank Redemption was good. I'll look into the rest.


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## jagdwolf (Jan 30, 2009)

Just saw Inkheart.  Damn good movie.  Why not drop me a line with what you have.  Or just any wild ideas. I have several but am so busy I am not writing atm.  But I love to edit for content and idea as well as flow....NOT for spelling and grammar.  I suck at both.  BADLY.

Would love to work on a group project.


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## Nakhi (Jan 30, 2009)

Unfortunately for you I do not work with others when it comes to a story.


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## kitreshawn (Jan 30, 2009)

Here is an idea I think will help you quite a bit.  Get some sort of notebook that is small enough to carry around with yourself.  Not a nice one, cheap is best.

Keep it with you (as much as possible) through the day.  Anytime you get any ideas you think would be great, either as the basis for a story or as a scene in a story, quickly write it down with enough detail that you can recall what you were thinking about.  Maybe even write a simple example of it (don't go for anything too good, it takes too long).

Any time you think of or see or hear something you like, try to jot it down in the book.

Really great for snippets of dialogue you hear or make up on the spot.  Or for generating ideas while doing something new.  Maybe you just had a near miss in a car accident and you think it would be a great thing to have your main character experience as well, so once you are finished with your drive you write down as much as you can remember about the experience.

Also good for writing dumps, where you set a timer for 5 or 10 minutes and just write about whatever comes to you as quickly as you can to keep up with your thoughts, not worrying about how good it is or following rules about writing.  Such a flow of consciousness writing may help you unlock ideas you might not have normally had.


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## Nakhi (Jan 30, 2009)

Thanks for offering some advice. I will keep it in mind.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 30, 2009)

Go on YouTube, look up Chechnya and Bosnia.  That will get you a head start on war stories.


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## ScottyDM (Jan 30, 2009)

I'll give you one...

Do you like intrigue? Spies, suspense, and a region teetering on the bring of war? Want to sweep African, Eurasian, and American politics into a swirling maelstrom of global peril? Do you read John Le Carre, watch _24_, or have enjoyed _The Hunt for Red October_?

In my mind there are only two species, or at least only two important species, in this story idea--human and African lion--but minor characters could be other species. Of course the main character is not a human. In my "brand" of furry fiction I like to get deep inside my species, really understand them, then craft an anthropomorphized-character species that's a logical blending of my prototype with human. To do otherwise seems boring. Also, if the anthropomorphization is done well then the story (novel?) could be seen as _essential_ anthrofiction. That is the main character must be nonhuman or the story fails.

I probably won't write this because I'm not so hot at suspense and intrigue. Let me know if this sort of story sounds interesting. The idea is somewhat rough, but has potential. It would require a fair amount of knowledge in international politics to come across as realistic.

Scotty

PS: Ideas are not valuable. The value comes from the proper implementation of the idea.

PPS: (the addition) This doesn't have to be set in Africa. Somewhere on the Indian subcontinent using tigers could work too. The advantage of Africa is the wildly shifting politics, and the machismo and egotism of some of the leaders.


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## Nakhi (Jan 30, 2009)

ScottyDM said:


> I'll give you one...
> 
> Do you like intrigue? Spies, suspense, and a region teetering on the bring of war? Want to sweep African, Eurasian, and American politics into a swirling maelstrom of global peril? Do you read John Le Carre, watch _24_, or have enjoyed _The Hunt for Red October_?
> 
> ...


 
Wow... just wow. Brilliant idea. I think I can work with that. Quite well too. Did you come up with this as you typed it or have you had the idea. If you just came up with it that is amazing.


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## jagdwolf (Jan 30, 2009)

Nouyorus said:


> Unfortunately for you I do not work with others when it comes to a story.


 

Not unfortunate for me.  I can and do quiet well with out others.  But sometimes its so much fun to have a few brains tossing out ideas.

Good luck on the writters block.


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## Nakhi (Jan 30, 2009)

I cannot tell if that is sarcasm or not. I just cannot work with people on my stories. Oh, and you spelt "writer's" wrong.


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## jagdwolf (Jan 31, 2009)

nope no sarcasm.  I do wish you well its so hard sometimes to get a good idea and run with it.  And thanks for the correction, I am dyslexic and sometimes even the word cat look wrong.


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## Nakhi (Jan 31, 2009)

I have an idea. I would like to know what people think.


Set about 2023

A world of anthros, but on Earth. No humans. Same countries. Us, Russia, England, etc. Follows the path of a Ohio State Trooper (main character, obviously). He is an US Army Reserve. War breaks out. It then shifts to his life on the battlefields in Europe. Eventually the local war in Western France turns into World War III.
A massive push from the Germans forces France between the British to the North, Spain and Italy to the south, and the Germans to the East. The Americans arrive to drive the armies away and defend Paris to gain an ally in the war. The Russians stay neutral until attacked by China.

A massive nuclear war ensues between Russia and China. The US goes DEFCON 2. The Americans push east deeper into Europe. Apparently the Russians pushed west and the two armies meet, but do not fight. The British claim neutrality, but will defend its borders.

Russian forces in Europe move east to attack Chinese forces. With the US in near total control of Europe, the rest of the world resents the US for securing Europe while supporting the Russians attacking China (Have to throw in some of the Anti-Americanism in the world). American forces start to go home because the war is over for them. While heading back, Chinese forces land in Washington (the state).

That is as far as I have gotten for right now.


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## ScottyDM (Jan 31, 2009)

Nouyorus said:


> Set about 2023
> 
> A world of anthros, but on Earth. No humans. Same countries. Us, Russia, England, etc. Follows the path of a Ohio State Trooper (main character, obviously). He is an US Army Reserve. War breaks out. It then shifts to his life on the battlefields in Europe. Eventually the local war in Western France turns into World War III.
> A massive push from the Germans forces France between the British to the North, Spain and Italy to the south, and the Germans to the East. The Americans arrive to drive the armies away and defend Paris to gain an ally in the war. The Russians stay neutral until attacked by China.


Have you thought about why they are fighting and how the sides have lined up? Why does the US need to enter the war in the first place, to defend France?



Nouyorus said:


> A massive nuclear war ensues between Russia and China. The US goes DEFCON 2. The Americans push east deeper into Europe. Apparently the Russians pushed west and the two armies meet, but do not fight. The British claim neutrality, but will defend its borders.


Hmmm, is a "massive nuclear war" fightable on a tactical basis?



Nouyorus said:


> Russian forces in Europe move east to attack Chinese forces. With the US in near total control of Europe, the rest of the world resents the US for securing Europe while supporting the Russians attacking China (Have to throw in some of the Anti-Americanism in the world). American forces start to go home because the war is over for them. While heading back, Chinese forces land in Washington (the state).


So Germany, Italy, Spain, etc. want to support China's push against Russia? Also, is physical invasion across the ocean practical in today's world?

This might actually be better as a smaller more personal story about your state trooper. How does this war affect him? What about the men in his unit? What about his family? I think you should do a quick outline of the whole conflict so you have a framework for your story, but unless your guy is someone like General Patton or Frodo Baggins, a broad scope may not fit. I mean there is _War and Peace_, but you do want to finish this, right?


Nouyorus, I'll send you a private message with that other idea in more detailed form.

Scotty


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## Nakhi (Jan 31, 2009)

I got it down in a few minutes. I needed to get something before I forgot. So there is not as much detail, but I can fill it in as I go.


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## Chanticleer (Jan 31, 2009)

To be perfectly honest I'd be happy to help, but I'd have to see a sample of your work before I could be really useful.

On the military/national conflicts note: sometimes it is good to read biographies of old leaders to give you the necessary background, but I personally usually like to make my nations and armies from scratch.

One thing I do do is take inspiration from old wars. The furry piece I'm currently working on is based heavily on WW1.


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## GraemeLion (Feb 3, 2009)

I have to second Scotty's recommendation of John La Carre.  He made it way up there.  If you're going intrigue and spycraft and such, he's a master at it.  If you're going more of the tactical/strategic warfare, I would recommend Tom Clancy.  But not just any Tom Clancy.  Make sure it's REALLY Tom Clancy writing it.  Something that addresses the cold war like Red Storm Rising would be good.

So that's what I would recommend.  The Spy Who Came In From the Cold if you want deep intrigue, and Red Storm Rising if you want the politics of the cold war that almost went hot, and something like Rainbow Six if you want a more tactical bent.


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## GraemeLion (Feb 3, 2009)

And I would also recommend "The Snowflake Method" to generate plots.  I've been using it for a few works, and I find it to be pretty cool and helpful. 

It's googleable.


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## ScottyDM (Feb 4, 2009)

*Randy Ingermanson's snowflake method is good, as far as it goes.* He does say to take his method and modify it to suit. His snowflake, as he presents it, doesn't address worldbuilding--the providence of sci-fi and fantasy. Odd, because Ingermanson primarily writes sci-fi.

I see his snowflake a bit differently.

The one sentence synopsis of step 1 is still critical. In about 15 words who's the main character and what's the big issue they face? If you can't figure that out, you're probably in trouble.

Ingermanson's step 2 is where you start to build a plot, and his step 3 is where you start to build your characters. Rather than separate steps 2 and 3, I moosh those up together into a single step 2 divided into three parts: world building, character building, and story building (Ingermanson doesn't address world building). Likewise his steps 4 and 5 become my tri-part step 3. Etc. The basic concept of the snowflake is to start easy then build on that.

I've got Ingermanson's _Fiction 101_ and _Fiction 201_ lecture series on CD. They're pretty good and he goes over far more information than what he gives away on his website. Because I get his e-mail newsletter I got pre-publication notice of those courses before they came out and was able to get them for about half price. He occasionally runs sales on them too.


*One of the subjects Ingermanson covers in his courses is how to structure a plot.* He's a fan of the three-act, three-disaster structure. For example in _Fiction 101_ he analyses _Star Wars_ and _Gone With the Wind_ and shows how they fit into that structure.

The three-act, three-disaster structure is more like scaffolding than it is character motivation. There are other approaches, such as structuring a story around why people react to stories and what draws them to a story.

*Joseph Campbell* spent a lifetime studying mythology and stories to try to discover this, and has several books on the subject. Perhaps his most comprehensive single-volume work on the subject is The Hero with a Thousand Faces. *Christopher Vogler* has taken Campbell's work and synthesized a writer's guide that shows how to apply Campbell's theories: The Writer's Journey: Mythic Structure for Writers.

A different approach to finding resonance within the reader is Bill Johnson's work. Randy Ingermanson says that *writers write for many reasons, but readers read primarily for one: the emotional experience.* And a superior story provides a superior emotional experience. *Johnson focuses on that emotional experience.* He has a couple of good lectures on YouTube: Deep Characterization (7 minutes) and A Story is a Promise (30 minutes). The third edition of his book is out and it's supposed to be available on Amazon, but there's confusion between ISBNs and edition numbers, so it's probably safest to order it off his website (he signed my book and included a CD with the shorter video on it). Also, there are several good essays about the craft of storytelling on Johnson's website.


While thinking about Johnson's concept that a story is a promise I've been examining some of my stories. In one I've been struggling with story structure. On one hand I want to keep the reader guessing and keep them off balance (but without using any stupid tricks). But then as the story unfolds I want the reader to find their balance and discover what the story is about. At the opening, as each paragraph unfolds the reader is presented with questions and answers to those questions, but each new answer presents even more questions. Unfortunately it isn't until the 10th and 11th paragraphs where I hint at the promise of my story:





> The Milliscent question hung heavy on his mind. Heâ€™d hoped a few days apart from her would help clear his thoughts. It hadnâ€™t worked. He couldnâ€™t stop thinking of her.
> 
> He loved her, but they were different species... no, different life forms. And many would argue she wasnâ€™t life form, or even real. A fantasy girl in black and white fur. But she was real to Tedd, and to Mr. McDonnell whoâ€™d created her.


*The 10th and 11th paragraphs were kinda late to present the emotional struggle of the character.* Rather than rip apart and rewrite the whole first scene, I decided to add a bit to the front to clue the reader in on what the story is about. So I quoted a single verse from the Bible. Note, "the Milliscent question" is about giving up a "dream girl", a girl that he's outgrown.





> When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. _I Corinthians, 13:11 (KJV)_


That's the internal turmoil of the character: Giving up his childish fantasy. He's graduated from high school only the week before and it's time he moved out of his mother's house, thought about a career, maybe courted a real girl, and became an adult.

And it's not just about tacking a quote on the front of my story. It's about keeping focused on the basic story issue: That of growing up and leaving childish things behind. Each scene needs to move the story in that direction or it doesn't belong.

*Johnson's techniques help me focus on what I've decided is important to a particular story.*


*So what might be the promise of a war story or a spy story? Courage, loyalty, betrayal, brotherhood, or something else. Pick one and run with it.*

Scotty


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## fivecrazyfurries (Feb 4, 2009)

Thank you Scotty. That's quite helpful.


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