# Bafflefield 2142



## Bokracroc (Oct 17, 2006)

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=13049860

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't buy this. Apart from being a buggy mod, EA runs it (they killed BF2) and now this. But in the end it's all about the fanbois/grrls :roll:


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## Hanazawa (Oct 17, 2006)

My boyfriend's been playing the demo. He plans to buy the full version. Believe me, he has half a brain 

The only difference between this and other games? Is that this one actually tells you what it's doing. As opposed to other things, which have probably been doing this "secretly" for years.


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## turboanthro (Oct 17, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Anyone with half a brain wouldn't buy this. Apart from being a buggy mod, EA runs it (they killed BF2) and now this. But in the end it's all about the fanbois/grrls :roll:



All that really means is they'll be taking data off your pc much the same way that steam already does and streaming adverts into the game. It's a bit shit that there's gonna be ads for coke and stuff in the game but for the most part (sam fisher is a corporate whore) EA tend to keep ads on billboards and stuff.


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## goat (Oct 17, 2006)

this seems kinda intrusive, but they ARE letting you know. 


i have no problem with advertising in games, really, as long as its realistic. for instance, in need for speed MW and Underground, i liked the billboards and stuff. didnt bother me, made it seem more in-depth.


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## shy (Oct 17, 2006)

My boyfriend has ranted so many times about that... 
I find it embarassing. Leave the video games alone.
Reminds me of that scene from futurama..

"What, you don't have advertisements in your dreams?"


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## Ruiner (Oct 17, 2006)

Haha... even after you shell out 50 bucks for a game, the company still rifles through your pockets.


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## Bokracroc (Oct 18, 2006)

It's $110 here.
For a half-arse mod. Somepeople have no problems then a whole truck-load has grahpics, lag and everything-in-between  problems. In-game Ads are meant to reduce the cost of games, not push up the price of a half-baked, buggy, spying Mod.


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## Hyenaworks (Oct 18, 2006)

Ads or not, if this game is as poorly coded as BF2, I'm not buying it except at the low low price of $10 from one of my buddies at EA.


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## wut (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm getting it. I've enjoyed the demo immensely.

DICE have said how it works. EA have said how it works. IGA have said how it works. Why is their word apparently less valid than those from CGW (who only served to spread misinformation no less) and thus completely ignored? Read the EULA. "Anyone with half a brain" can understand it. All this bull crap about monitoring of usage habits and whatnot is utter rot. There is no damn spyware in the product. I'm sick of repeating this. Spyware denotes a program that is installed without your knowledge and monitors your computer/browsing usage. The module in BF2142 only checks how long you looked at an ad and how large/the angle of viewing. ONLY IN THE GAME. They use your IP to geolocate ads that are relevant to you so you don't get products from Germany advertised to you when you're in Japan. It's pretty much the exact same data than is being taken by a banner ad on any website you choose (they take your IP, the time, if you clicked it, many times they plant a tracking cookie...) and you can likely block them in the exact same way (ie HOSTS entries) 

Many games (just like movies) have had product placement, sponsorship, streaming ads (well...this hasn't been in movies for obvious reasons...) and all other kinds. These ads in 2142 are nothing that hasn't been done before. I don't see why it is such a huge problem. Splinter Cell:Chaos Theory had it, Planetside had it, SWAT 4 had it. Gaming isn't some holy bastion fighting the evil of advertisements, neither will it "fight the tide" for much longer. If it puts more money into the coffers of the companies who create the games I enjoy, I don't really see the problem. 

Advertisement is everywhere. Get used to it. I know I have. People are more than willing to buy DVDs that have ads and such that you can't skip through, they buy and enjoy movies with such obvious product placement (such as _Final Fantasy: Advent Children_ with their Panasonic p9000iv mobile phones, _I, Robot_ with their Audi cars, Converse and JVC products, Nokia and Samsung in the _Matrix_ films...) but they scream bloody murder when they appear in video games? 

Uhm.


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## WelcomeTheCollapse (Oct 18, 2006)

Heh, this is the game where the advertising billboards are indestructible XP

/'Twas on Fark a few weeks back.


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## Myr (Oct 18, 2006)

BF2 was garbage and remains broken to this day (red tag bug, exploits, collision mesh errors, sticky keys, poor server browser, etc.) and I've really come to hate the whole ranked server thing. It's killed all of the mods I was looking forward to and makes having fun with the game your way impossible. You have to play the way EA/Dice wants you to and that's on low counts of tickets with their rules, their stats, their weapons, etc. Adding this advertising crap is just one more reason not to buy this game.


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## Bokracroc (Oct 19, 2006)

wut said:
			
		

> Many games (just like movies) have had product placement, sponsorship, streaming ads (well...this hasn't been in movies for obvious reasons...) and all other kinds. These ads in 2142 are nothing that hasn't been done before. I don't see why it is such a huge problem. Splinter Cell:Chaos Theory had it, Planetside had it, SWAT 4 had it. Gaming isn't some holy bastion fighting the evil of advertisements, neither will it "fight the tide" for much longer. If it puts more money into the coffers of the companies who create the games I enjoy, I don't really see the problem.





> Advertising is the business of drawing public attention to goods and services


Just because the big name games do it doesn't make it ok.
Ad's where they are relvent are fine. Eg, Racing, Sport and to an extent, Freeform (GTA).
An FPS you can contest. I wouldn't really care if they was a few 'carefully' placed ad's in Generic FPS Clone 4 which was based in a modern day setting in some type of city.
Where is 2142 set? Somewhere in the future, in the middle of a war. Sounds like a great place! After the battle I might hop down to Macca's  in my new Dodge whatever. Then I might go down to the shops and buy some new Nike shoes!



			
				wut said:
			
		

> Advertisement is everywhere. Get used to it. I know I have. People are more than willing to buy DVDs that have ads and such that you can't skip through, they buy and enjoy movies with such obvious product placement (such as _Final Fantasy: Advent Children_ with their Panasonic p9000iv mobile phones, _I, Robot_ with their Audi cars, Converse and JVC products, Nokia and Samsung in the _Matrix_ films...) but they scream bloody murder when they appear in video games?


They're Cash-Cowing but to you copying 'Mainstream' makes everything ok.
So you wouldn't care if they stuck ad's for Coke or new cars in a Medievil themed game? Cause that's where it'll head.

Would it be such a problem if 2142 wasn't a buggy over-priced mod?
Yes.
$90 is a high price for any new properly tried-and-tested game.
$110 is a crazy price for any game, even if it is bug-free. And with in-game ad's and it full of bugs, it's mad. We get enough shit shoved down our throats already.
Billaboards, buses, bus stops, TV, radio, newspapers/magizines, movies, the internet but you want more?

Spyware:


> Spyware is a type of program that watches what users do with their computer and then sends that information over the internet.








It's spyware, no dancing around the fire.


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## Hanazawa (Oct 19, 2006)

Hey, Bokracroc,


			
				wut said:
			
		

> Spyware denotes a program that is installed *without your knowledge* and monitors your computer/browsing usage.



Also,


			
				Bokracroc said:
			
		

> So you wouldn't care if they stuck ad's for Coke or new cars in a Medievil themed game? Cause that's where it'll head.


They're already doing that. I don't remember which game it is, but some Medievil-themed  title totally has some stupid "Verily, thou shalt buy this other game for PSP and inputteth this code for prize redemption" or something like that - coming from an NPC. _an NPC_.


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## Ruiner (Oct 19, 2006)

> ...I might hop down to Macca's  in my new Dodge whatever. Then I might go down to the shops and buy some new Nike shoes! ...



They advertised the Dodge Charger in GRAW, which is set about 10 years in the future. There's no way that Dodge would still sell the same make and model charger in ten years... not even 5 years.


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## Dragoneer (Oct 19, 2006)

I had the game on pre-order and was excited as hell about it... until I heard about the spyware.

Order cancelled.


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## wut (Oct 19, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Where is 2142 set? Somewhere in the future, in the middle of a war. Sounds like a great place! After the battle I might hop down to Macca's  in my new Dodge whatever. Then I might go down to the shops and buy some new Nike shoes!



Yes, in 2142 they will not have advertisements at all, this is obviously a completely logical jump to take. Just because the only map given in the demo was Sidi Power Plant doesn't mean all maps are played in arid, desolate locations. Especially when a lot of it is urban/suburban warfare (eg. Minsk, Berlin, Belgrade) OH MY GOD FIGHTING IN URBAN ENVIRONMENTS? MY WORLD HAS BEEN BLOWN WIDE APART. 



> They're Cash-Cowing but to you copying 'Mainstream' makes everything ok.
> So you wouldn't care if they stuck ad's for Coke or new cars in a Medievil themed game? Cause that's where it'll head.



I don't particularly care either way? If coke want to slap banners around a medieval village saying _Giveth. Liveth. Loveth._ then that's their prerogative. If they can make it fit in then all the better such as the ones that IGA are supposed to be providing for 2142 (where all ads supposedly have to go through the DICE art director before being put into the game. Seeing as they're not live yet nobody knows how they look.)

I can usually mentally block the ads from my gaming experience if it bothers me so much, or if that's not enough a HOSTS entry or addition to my firewall will block them either way if they're not locally hosted. 



> Would it be such a problem if 2142 wasn't a buggy over-priced mod?



Opinion. Irrelevant to the issue.  



> $90 is a high price for any new properly tried-and-tested game.
> $110 is a crazy price for any game, even if it is bug-free. And with in-game ad's and it full of bugs, it's mad. We get enough shit shoved down our throats already.


More irrelevance. The price *you* have to pay is the problem of either the value of your currency, your sales tax or other combination of factors. Especially seeing as I'm purchasing it for Â£27.99 which is Â£7 LESS than what I purchased Half Life 2 for *two years ago* (Â£34.99)



> Billaboards, buses, bus stops, TV, radio, newspapers/magizines, movies, the internet but you want more?



I simply do not mind. Advertisement is a part of life. Either get used to it or log off the net and go live in a cave somewhere because it's here to stay.



> Spyware:
> 
> 
> > Spyware is a type of program that watches what users do with their computer and then sends that information over the internet.
> ...



I've read the entire EULA instead on focusing on one or two points of legalese and misinterpreting them, thanks.



			
				http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware said:
			
		

> In the field of computing, the term spyware refers to a broad category of software designed to intercept or take partial control of a computer's operation *without the informed consent of that machine's owner or legitimate user*. While the term taken literally suggests software that surreptitiously monitors the user, it has come to refer more broadly to software that subverts the computer's operation for the benefit of a third party.



Do you consider banner ads on a webpage spyware? How about Windows Media Player? They are in practicality the same thing. Banner ads collect information such as how many loads, your IP, how many clicks, they leave behind tracking cookies. WMP assigns your computer a unique ID. ANY server out there you decide to go play on or browse to on the net can and do log much more indentifiable things than how many ad impressions you've seen.

The 2142 module is part of the game, is only active while the game is active, and only keeps track of things relating to the ads so they can actually pitch the advertisement spots properly (ie. a spot with a high volume of people seeing an ad because of the placement near an important choke point will thus cost more than an ad that is in an out of the way area that few people frequent.) It is no worse than a simple  banner ad. 



> I had the game on pre-order and was excited as hell about it... until I heard about the spyware.
> 
> Order cancelled.



...Except there's no spyware. Jesus Christ.


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## Dragoneer (Oct 19, 2006)

wut said:
			
		

> > I had the game on pre-order and was excited as hell about it... until I heard about the spyware.
> >
> > Order cancelled.
> 
> ...


It's more a matter of in-game ads ruining the atmosphere for me... it killed Planetside's immersion when they implemented shampoo, Fanta and Deuce Bigelow ads in a sci-fi setting.


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## Hanazawa (Oct 19, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> It's more a matter of in-game ads ruining the atmosphere for me... it killed Planetside's immersion when they implemented shampoo, Fanta and Deuce Bigelow ads in a sci-fi setting.



...what?? FANTA is TOTALLY a space-age drink!!

...shoulda gone with Tang.


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## wut (Oct 19, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What? you guys don't remember the old 80's "my friend, fanta" ad campaign?! THE KIDS TOTALLY WENT INTO SPACE WITH PLUTO AND MICKEY!!

They were obviously so ahead of their time.


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 19, 2006)

goat said:
			
		

> I have no problem with advertising in games, really, as long as its realistic. for instance, in need for speed MW and Underground, i liked the billboards and stuff. didnt bother me, made it seem more in-depth.


In this case it is completely anachronistic and kills the imersion to see advertisements 100+ years displaced from the setting.



			
				wut said:
			
		

> *lots of stuff*


If they are installing a program on your computer only to track your IP so that they can send you proper advertisements, couldn't they just simply, you know, ask upon installation which territory you were in like every other game on the planet?

Also if nothing shady is going on, which I highly doubt from EA having had many run-ins with them as a consumer and as a member of the press, would you mind explaining this then?
http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2006/10/another-reason-to-say-no-to-battlefield.html 



			
				wut said:
			
		

> Bokracroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The game is set in the end of days, the final war.  This is a madmax, waterworld style scenario where the entire world is freezing over and mankind is fighting over the last bits of usable land.  I doubt there would be a strong advertizing firm for recreational products in that situation.  "But what about urban combat?"  Well A. the product advertisements would have to be in the language of the country you are fighting in to make any sense, and B. they would have to be old and dilapidated seeing as the last time any one of them was put up would have been years ago.  We do not know what exactly they will look like right now, but we can all assume that bright shiny new billboards for present day products would look highly out of place in a war torn future where everything is falling appart and humanity is dwindling.



> > They're Cash-Cowing but to you copying 'Mainstream' makes everything ok.
> > So you wouldn't care if they stuck ad's for Coke or new cars in a Medievil themed game? Cause that's where it'll head.
> 
> 
> ...


"I don't particularly care either way? If coke want to slap banners around a medieval village saying _Giveth. Liveth. Loveth._ then that's their prerogative."
That is the most shillish thing I've ever heard...  Are you even a gamer?  I honestly can't think of a single person that would ever agree with that line of thinking EVER.  People would go apeshit if they saw a coke advert in a blockbuster movie set in Medievil times and that only costs them 10 bucks to see.  So people shouldn't be expected to just "deal" when they spend 50 bucks for a game and see an advert that is obscenely out of place.

"If they can make it fit in then all the better such as the ones that IGA are supposed to be providing for 2142 (where all ads supposedly have to go through the DICE art director..." 
Funny you should say that, I thought that EA fired the DICE Canada team for refusing to put adverts in the game like this before deciding to do it themselves.  Or at least that's what I had heard.  Then again EA fires everyone.




> > Would it be such a problem if 2142 wasn't a buggy over-priced mod?
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion. Irrelevant to the issue.


Actually it is, people tend to be more apt to swallowing things like this when they get a decent ammount of bang for their buck. 



> > Billaboards, buses, bus stops, TV, radio, newspapers/magizines, movies, the internet but you want more?
> 
> 
> 
> I simply do not mind. Advertisement is a part of life. Either get used to it or log off the net and go live in a cave somewhere because it's here to stay.


God forbid people have an oppinion on it, or say when too much is too much.



> > I had the game on pre-order and was excited as hell about it... until I heard about the spyware.
> >
> > Order cancelled.
> 
> ...


Same general idea with a few twists, just a different name.  Let's not split hairs over semantics.


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## tundra_arctic_wolf (Oct 19, 2006)

The only Battlefield game I have is Battlefield 1942.


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## wut (Oct 19, 2006)

> If they are installing a program on your computer only to track your IP so that they can send you proper advertisements, couldn't they just simply, you know, ask upon installation which territory you were in like every other game on the planet?



No they can't. Because they don't ask what territory you're in, they ask the LANGUAGE...Which only serves the purpose for the language of the INSTALLER itself.  

Even then, the geolocation might be done by city or by state. Ads for London based firms would be worthless delivered to Northumberland. Ads for Texas would be pointless served in New York. 



> Also if nothing shady is going on, which I highly doubt from EA having had many run-ins with them as a consumer and as a member of the press, would you mind explaining this then?
> http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2006/10/another-reason-to-say-no-to-battlefield.html



Yawn. I assume you didn't even bother to read the comments on that very article you linked, considering the very same thing I had lined up to answer that is already on there. Congratulations. 

Microsoft themselves have already released a hotfix for that security update. Not every patch microsoft releases is perfection, and some things just can't be worked around without a complete rewrite or extensive modifications to the code, or just hoping microsoft release a hotfix, or requiring an uninstall of the relevant "patch". You know, just like this scenario.  

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/924867/

Whether or not it completely fixes the issue with BF2142 I do not know at this point, but people are reporting it to fix things for them. 



> The game is set in the end of days, the final war.  This is a madmax, waterworld style scenario where the entire world is freezing over and mankind is fighting over the last bits of usable land.  I doubt there would be a strong advertizing firm for recreational products in that situation.  "But what about urban combat?"  Well A. the product advertisements would have to be in the language of the country you are fighting in to make any sense, and B. they would have to be old and dilapidated seeing as the last time any one of them was put up would have been years ago.  We do not know what exactly they will look like right now, but we can all assume that bright shiny new billboards for present day products would look highly out of place in a war torn future where everything is falling appart and humanity is dwindling.



We don't know how the ads look right now, so it's nothing but conjecture as to how they'd fit in. However as I said before, the DICE art director apparently has to ok them. You can believe otherwise if you want. But I don't really believe I'm being lied to at this point. If they're not fitting to the environment, then I'll hold up my hands and say I was wrong. But it's not going to ruin my enjoyment of the game either way. 



> "I don't particularly care either way? If coke want to slap banners around a medieval village saying _Giveth. Liveth. Loveth._ then that's their prerogative."
> That is the most shillish thing I've ever heard...  Are you even a gamer?  I honestly can't think of a single person that would ever agree with that line of thinking EVER.



:roll:

Nope, I'm certainly not a gamer. No sir. I surely haven't been playing games from the Atari 2600, through the Spectrum ZX+2 and Commodore 16, the NES, the Genesis, the N64, The Dreamcast, etc.

The fact I've owned all of those machines listed with too many games to count along with way too many game hours is nothing but pure coincidence. 

Oh wait.  

lol solidarity fly the flag of the SS Gamer we won't fall for these backdoor shenanigans NO SIR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I'm a realist. Ads in videogames are becoming more common for a reason. As movies became more popular and expensive to produce, they also began offsetting budgets with advertisements and product placement/sponsorship. Same with television stations, especially those who are licensing a blockbuster prime time show show specific ads for a certain company who provided the money to license the show (Examples in the UK, Dominos Pizza sponsoring _The Simpsons_ on Channel 4 and Sky One, 118 118 sponsoring _Lost_, also on Channel 4. Stella Artois sponsoring movies...again on Channel 4) 

Development costs are rising dramatically as things are shifting to next gen. A game that currently has been produced on a budget of $3m could potentially require up to $20m if it were a next gen venture. Are you really expecting them to hike up prices to match the increase in costs? Or to find other avenues for revenue such as advertising and sponsorship? 



> People would go apeshit if they saw a coke advert in a blockbuster movie set in Medievil times and that only costs them 10 bucks to see.  So people shouldn't be expected to just "deal" when they spend 50 bucks for a game and see an advert that is obscenely out of place.



Do you recall me saying that putting that ad into a medieval film would be a smart move by the Coca Cola company? No I did not. I said that if they wanted to, then it's their right to do so. Blame the movie creator for agreeing to sponsorship from a company that obviously doesn't fit the theme. 

Do we know the ads are out of place yet or what kind of companies are getting ad space? No we don't.  Until then, it's nothing but conjecture again. 



> "If they can make it fit in then all the better such as the ones that IGA are supposed to be providing for 2142 (where all ads supposedly have to go through the DICE art director..."
> Funny you should say that, I thought that EA fired the DICE Canada team for refusing to put adverts in the game like this before deciding to do it themselves.  Or at least that's what I had heard.  Then again EA fires everyone.



Facts and sources or hold your tongue on this, thanks. There's enough misinformation and half truths flying about right now without you adding to it. 



> Actually it is, people tend to be more apt to swallowing things like this when they get a decent ammount of bang for their buck.
> 
> 
> > Actually, no it isn't. Many people feel it is fine as a standalone game in the series. That is also irrelevant to this issue about whether the streaming ads are spyware or not or if they have a place in video games.
> ...


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## Myr (Oct 19, 2006)

I don't see why all this arguing about patching and advertising is needed. The core fundamentals of the game are flawed and awful. If you guys would actually sit down and read the specifics of the game you'd notice that basic items like grenades and defibulators are LOCKED OUT at the beginning of the game. They require you to play hundreds of hours on EA-licensed ranked servers to build up enough credit to unlock these sorts of items and to also increase your stats and weapons while symultaneously failing to have any method of categorizing skill levels. What you essentially have is World of Warcraft where a newbie player can be instantly slaughtered by a high-level (60?) player with all the advanced stuff and upgrades instantly because the game doesn't differentiate between skills and requires you to give your life away in order to get the full experience. It's really quite absurd. I don't want to play a game where I may be new at it and may not be so good but the game actually makes it worse by forcing me to be bad compared to other players by giving them overwhelming advantages.

I just can't see how this game would be enjoyable to play. It's a $50 mod based on the same BF2 engine with some of the same assets and now it has advertising. They made this game in less than a year and left BF2 in terrible shape still missing a lot of features that were supposed to be on it while also nickle and diming people for expansion content. BF 2142 is an overpriced, unbalanced, poorly/quickly slopped together piece of crap that I will not be checking out. If it were coming out at $30 maybe I'd think about it, but given the lack of effort they've put into the game plus the new advertising content, plus the ranked server licensing fees increasing, I just can't see why I'm expected to fork over $50 for something that has had such little effort put into it. Given the net problems and browser issues in BF2 I can only imagine the horrors the new advertising will bring. It just kills the experience too when you're walking around in a futuristic environment and have to be bombarded with indestructable ads for present day things.

Also, on top of all of the above, EA/Dice has failed to listen to suggestions and failed to do what would make the game more enjoyable. They didn't make a single change to aircraft flight controls (which are really quite awful compared with the competition) and they're already patching the game the day it came out. I'm already reading tons of bitching about the game and to me it just looks like a mess that's not worth being around. I don't know about you all, but last time I played BF2 it took forever to find a server with a decent connection speed and I never did find one with mature players who knew what they were doing.

BF 2142 is all image and hype. It's got no substance and is an overpriced cash cow that relies on a franchise name rather than delivering real content. Screw EA. I'm waiting for UT2007 where I don't have to pay $10 - $30 for new content and the game is constantly kept working well and doesn't get released until it's done right.


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 20, 2006)

wut said:
			
		

> > If they are installing a program on your computer only to track your IP so that they can send you proper advertisements, couldn't they just simply, you know, ask upon installation which territory you were in like every other game on the planet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is not difficult or unreasonable to have a simple request of country and province/state upon install.  As a matter of fact something like that would of avoided all of this ire from the gaming community at large.  At face value it seems needlessly complex to a point of being suspicious to have to develop software to track your IP when you can just answer the question of location with a couple of button clicks durring install.



> > Also if nothing shady is going on, which I highly doubt from EA having had many run-ins with them as a consumer and as a member of the press, would you mind explaining this then?
> > http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2006/10/another-reason-to-say-no-to-battlefield.html
> 
> 
> ...


Pardon me for simply reading an article and not taking the time to read reader comments.



> > The game is set in the end of days, the final war.  This is a madmax, waterworld style scenario where the entire world is freezing over and mankind is fighting over the last bits of usable land.  I doubt there would be a strong advertizing firm for recreational products in that situation.  "But what about urban combat?"  Well A. the product advertisements would have to be in the language of the country you are fighting in to make any sense, and B. they would have to be old and dilapidated seeing as the last time any one of them was put up would have been years ago.  We do not know what exactly they will look like right now, but we can all assume that bright shiny new billboards for present day products would look highly out of place in a war torn future where everything is falling appart and humanity is dwindling.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know how the ads look right now, so it's nothing but conjecture as to how they'd fit in. However as I said before, the DICE art director apparently has to ok them. You can believe otherwise if you want. *But I don't really believe I'm being lied to at this point.* If they're not fitting to the environment, then I'll hold up my hands and say I was wrong. But it's not going to ruin my enjoyment of the game either way.


Of course I'm just plucking at straws here because EA has never been guilty of any sleezy buisness practices ever.  We should take anything they say at face value because it's not like they have any kind of history of lying or underhanded buisness practices, but no no go ahead and believe anything they say because "Why would they lie?"
Also EA owns dice, how hard is it to get a director who approves anything? 
"Pay me a salary and I'll approve anything you want."



> > "I don't particularly care either way? If coke want to slap banners around a medieval village saying _Giveth. Liveth. Loveth._ then that's their prerogative."
> > That is the most shillish thing I've ever heard...  Are you even a gamer?  I honestly can't think of a single person that would ever agree with that line of thinking EVER.
> 
> 
> ...


that was a very muscle flexing, acerbic, sarcastic, posturing, non sequitur.  I better not lower myself to doing the same and going on a tirade about my gaming experiance it might be a bit unseemly.  Now the comment had nothing to do with how big your gaming chops were, but how any gamer in his right mind could honestly say something like that.  "Are you even a gamer" could have easily been replaced with "are you insane" because it is an unprecidented oppinion.  I have talked with many people about it, I have seen multiple IRC discussions, and read dozens of pages of forum threads on this and I'd be hard pressed to find a single person that wouldn't mind "coke advertisements" in a medievil game.  How does that not completely destroy atmosphere?  Games are a form of escapism for gamers and it's kind of hard to escape when you have the world you are trying to escape to is being ripped apart with inconsistencies and things that have no place in them to begin with.





> I'm a realist. Ads in videogames are becoming more common for a reason. As movies became more popular and expensive to produce, they also began offsetting budgets with advertisements and product placement/sponsorship. Same with television stations, especially those who are licensing a blockbuster prime time show show specific ads for a certain company who provided the money to license the show (Examples in the UK, Dominos Pizza sponsoring _The Simpsons_ on Channel 4 and Sky One, 118 118 sponsoring _Lost_, also on Channel 4. Stella Artois sponsoring movies...again on Channel 4)
> 
> Development costs are rising dramatically as things are shifting to next gen. A game that currently has been produced on a budget of $3m could potentially require up to $20m if it were a next gen venture. Are you really expecting them to hike up prices to match the increase in costs? Or to find other avenues for revenue such as advertising and sponsorship?


I as well am a realist and not only do not mind, but appreciate advertisements in games where they are valid, warranted, and add to the level of realism.  If I play a racing game, for example, I expect to see a billboard on the side of the road, it's a normal every day thing.

All those mentions of sponsorship are all good and well, but they generally just say this show is brought to you by and include comercials for that product durring the comercial break, they do not take a sci-fi show for example and have a dominos guy walk by in the background.  It is not a very good annalogy because those TV shows wouldn't have product placement directly in the show unless it actually made sense.



> > People would go apeshit if they saw a coke advert in a blockbuster movie set in Medievil times and that only costs them 10 bucks to see.  So people shouldn't be expected to just "deal" when they spend 50 bucks for a game and see an advert that is obscenely out of place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, nor did I say you said anything about putting an ad in a movie like that, it was an analogy.  And while you say we should blame the movie creator for agreeing to the sponsorship why can't we blame a game company?  Also you say that we don't know what the ads are going to be yet so we can't guess if they are going to be out of place, but most of us believe that it is a fairly safe bet that advertisements for current products removed nearly 130 years from the games timeline will be somewhat out of place.



> > "If they can make it fit in then all the better such as the ones that IGA are supposed to be providing for 2142 (where all ads supposedly have to go through the DICE art director..."
> > Funny you should say that, I thought that EA fired the DICE Canada team for refusing to put adverts in the game like this before deciding to do it themselves.  Or at least that's what I had heard.  Then again EA fires everyone.
> 
> 
> ...


It is fairly common knowlage that EA bought Dice Canada and then almost imediately closed them down directly after the acquisition, the why's and how's are just speculation though.



> > Actually it is, people tend to be more apt to swallowing things like this when they get a decent ammount of bang for their buck.
> 
> 
> Actually, no it isn't. Many people feel it is fine as a standalone game in the series. That is also irrelevant to this issue about whether the streaming ads are spyware or not or if they have a place in video games.


Just as an example of my point I could walk up to anybody right now and ask them "Would you be more willing to put up with a product defect(not saying the game is defective, just using it as an example of something a consumer would generally not like) if you got a better deal on it than if you didn't get a deal at all?" and 9 out of 10 people would say yes.  It's common sense.
And many many many people are bothered about this so yes, yes it is a relevant issue despite however you might feel.


----------



## Rhainor (Oct 20, 2006)

I hereby nominate this thread for the Special-est Thread of the Week award.

</offtopic>


----------



## coffeewolf (Oct 20, 2006)

I feel special. I think this will continue in the conduct of big companies such as EA, but not smaller companies or games made by the console (nintendo, for example). I mean, they practically put adverts on all their sports game. This should be nothing new. Adverts online recognise your IP, and will use the location. For example, date companies will say "date thousands of women online in channel islands!" Theres hardly thousands of women who even visit. "Get pizza local in india with easy pizza!"


----------



## Bokracroc (Oct 20, 2006)

Point Of Existence


> Every tank in the game has ammunition switching (we've seen this in USI, but if I remember right, PoE for BFV was the first Battlefield mod to do it) - each tank (like this Leopard II) has both sabot and HEAP rounds; sabot for killing enemy tanks, and HEAP with its large blast radius for teaching light vehicles and infantry not to get in the line of sight of a tank. Tanks are lethal, as they should be, but be careful if an anti-armor guy gets behind you, they are much more potent than in BF2. You will not want to sit around while under AT fire.
> Of course some tanks have a bit more to offer, like the T-55 AGM, which fires laser-guided anti-tank missiles out the barrel. Just switch to your ATGMs, lock on, and pop. You can't fire these on the move, but they're a mean surprise if you shoot from cover. Of course, if you get caught dinking around in the laser cam while another tank comes up behind you, expect to be dead quickly.
> 
> PoE's always been strong in balancing - balancing infantry versus armor, jets versus anti-aircraft vehicles, and so on. It really requires combined arms - if you're in a Shilka, you can maul helicopters and planes with ease, but if a Leopard II rolls around the corner, you're dead meat. So either your tanks need to defend you, or your helicopters need to come in and take out that tank - assuming the enemy fighters don't get your helicopters and so on. Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you can just camp a crate and ignore AT fire like in BF2, no, anti-tank fire hurts. A lot. But on the flip-side, your main gun is no piddly thing; a HEAP round will ruin quite a few infantrymen's day if they make the mistake of clustering up in your field of fire.



Not only is it free, but it's also has less bugs and no ad's. Why on earth should we pay top-dollar when we can get something like this?
What is so new and refreshing about 2142 that we should pay for over this?
Surely a few Mechs, Titan mode and a reskin isn't worth spending whatever.







> I simply do not mind. Advertisement is a part of life. Either get used to it or log off the net and go live in a cave somewhere because it's here to stay.


You've heard of Morrowind? Played it? (I suppose Oblivian counts too)
Check out the new Fort Frostmoth! Fort Frostmoth being one of the main centers of the island (apart from Raven Rock and the Skall Village), this is the only place with a Shrine, Armorer, Spellmaker/Potions and the boat back to Morrowind.




Looks great! (Well it doesn't really. It's just a dodgey mock-up)


It's all Insult to Injury. 
1: 2142 isn't great to start off it. They did what a mod crew could of done, rushed it and slapped a price tag on it. It's been done before.
2: EA. EA have slaughtered BF2. Every patch they bring out only creates more problems than it fixes (if they even fix even at some times). Wouldn't it be smart to fix BF2 first, then expand, just so the bottom doesn't collpase and crush itself?
3: Now they're plugging it. I've never had a problem with ad's in sports games or NFS (to be truthful I've never noticed the ad's in GRAW enough.).


----------



## Hanazawa (Oct 20, 2006)

Wow, you guys sure whine a lot without knowing WTF you're talking about.

My boyfriend and one of his friends went out and bought copies of this game tonight, and I just watched them play for a few hours. Neither one of them really noticed the ads except for one or two occasions. I never saw any ads. Maybe they'll add more as the game grows? Whatever. So far it's not a problem.


----------



## Bokracroc (Oct 20, 2006)

Give it time


			
				wut said:
			
		

> The module in BF2142 only checks how long you looked at an ad and how large/the angle of viewing. ONLY IN THE GAME.


People aren't loooking at the ads? They'll chuck them somewhere where they will be noticed.


----------



## Hanazawa (Oct 20, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> Give it time
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, if you're looking at anything other than your minimap/enemy location markers when you're not directly engaged, you're doing it wrong.

most of the people who play this game don't give a damn about the setting, they care about blowing things up and stabbing dudes for their dogtags.


----------



## Span_Wolf (Oct 20, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> Wow, you guys sure whine a lot without knowing WTF you're talking about.
> 
> My boyfriend and one of his friends went out and bought copies of this game tonight, and I just watched them play for a few hours. Neither one of them really noticed the ads except for one or two occasions. I never saw any ads. Maybe they'll add more as the game grows? Whatever. So far it's not a problem.


We are the ones that don't know what we are talking about?  You might want to look in the mirror bucko because I'm about to explain to you what I know and what you don't.

The ads have not been put in yet.
Let me repeat theat for you
NO ADS, NOT YET.
The only thing in the game right now is some placeholders for when the ads are implemented.

But then again I'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about.


			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> Bokracroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all I'm sure people really enjoy being condescended to about how they don't know how to or are playing a game incorrectly.  I'm sure others would be rather gracious to be told how to play their own games.

Secondly if people don't care about the setting then why are they buying this new game when we have 3 other carbon copies with the one major difference being the setting when they could just play those?  It's because people _do_ care about the setting.  If people didn't care about settings then all games would just be played in an empty void or better yet replace the void with a giant cube covered in advertising.


----------



## Hanazawa (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm a girl, have fun with that one


----------



## Span_Wolf (Oct 20, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> I'm a girl, have fun with that one


Fascinatingly relevant.  You sure showed me.


----------



## Myr (Oct 20, 2006)

Span_Wolf said:
			
		

> The ads have not been put in yet.
> Let me repeat theat for you
> NO ADS, NOT YET.
> The only thing in the game right now is some placeholders for when the ads are implemented.


I honestly completely skipped over this when I first learned about the game. Ads not being fully implemented at the time of the game's release is just so hilarious I can't find the proper words to describe it. Typical EA! :roll: The marketing department picks when the game is done and not the people behind the product. They'll finish up the ad system in some huge patch they'll have to cram down peoples' throats probably 3 months from now after numerous delays. It's just the same old EA garbage.


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

Myr said:
			
		

> Span_Wolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well from what I have heard, and do not claim to be gospel, is that as the game was nearing completion they told the Dice team to work out a way of putting ads into the game.  Dice refused and EA said GTFO, thus the dissolution of Dice Canada, and then EA went about doing it themselves.  This would explain why the ad system was not ready upon the games completion.  While it may be improbable it is at the very least plausable.


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## Hanazawa (Oct 21, 2006)

> Secondly if people don't care about the setting then why are they buying this new game when we have 3 other carbon copies with the one major difference being the setting when they could just play those?  It's because people _do_ care about the setting.  If people didn't care about settings then all games would just be played in an empty void or better yet replace the void with a giant cube covered in advertising.



Uh... because they're not carbon copies? The levels/areas are different, there are new modes, there's different "class" abilities, you get to start from scratch at collecting badges, medals, ribbons, etc... The same reason people continue to buy pokemon games :roll:


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> > Secondly if people don't care about the setting then why are they buying this new game when we have 3 other carbon copies with the one major difference being the setting when they could just play those?  It's because people _do_ care about the setting.  If people didn't care about settings then all games would just be played in an empty void or better yet replace the void with a giant cube covered in advertising.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh... because they're not carbon copies? The levels/areas are different, there are new modes, there's different "class" abilities, you get to start from scratch at collecting badges, medals, ribbons, etc... The same reason people continue to buy pokemon games :roll:


Hahahaha, thanks for both contradicting yourself and proving my point.  *wipes a tear* Oh that's rich, yeah, I'll be over here laughing some more.  hehehe


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## Hanazawa (Oct 21, 2006)

setting != area/level.

Setting is that bullshit like environmental effects, advertisements, and the way everything _looks_. Area is the layout and positions of silos/artillery/buildings/etc etc

plus all of the other shit I talked about that's still different!!!!!!! holy fuck!~!!

keep having fun laughing there


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> setting != area/level.
> 
> Setting is that bullshit like environmental effects, advertisements, and the way everything _looks_. Area is the layout and positions of silos/artillery/buildings/etc etc
> 
> ...


I could say a hundred things right here, I honestly could, but I'll just go with simplicity right now and only cover one of those things.

Setting
setâ€§ting [set-ing]
2. the surroundings or environment of anything...
3. "arrangement of scenery and properties"
5. the *locale* *or* period in which the action of a novel, play, film, etc., takes place...
6. Also called stage setting, stage set. the scenery and other properties used in a dramatic performance.
Source: Dictionary.com

Main Entry: setting
Function: noun
3 a : the time, place, and circumstances in which something occurs or develops b : the time and place of the action of a literary, dramatic, or cinematic work c : the scenery used in a theatrical or film production.
Source: Merriam-Webster OnLine

Thank you, and goodnight.


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## Hanazawa (Oct 21, 2006)

Setting is time and place? Okay, time and place for this game: various locations on earth in the year 2142

Now then, to prove I can quote shit too:
"In computer and video games, a level (sometimes called a stage, zone, course, episode, round, world, map, wave, board, phase, or landscape) is a separate area in a game's virtual world, in modern games typically representing a specific location such as a building or a city." - Thanks Wikipedia!

you sure showed me!


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

This is unbelievable, a sheer logic vacume..  I mean you steamroll your own old points just climbing over yourself to make new ones.  Hell I'm not even sure what you are trying to say right now.  Then you use a user created and edited website as reference in the face of accredited sources like Websters.
And honestly if you want to use Wiki here is a direct quote;
"...the term "setting" can also refer to the time or location of a single scene in a larger story."  IE *LEVEL* 
Jesus is it necessary to argue even the basic usage of the english language?

Wait why am I even arguing?...


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## Hanazawa (Oct 21, 2006)

zomg resorting to image macros from shitty webcomics

you have _clearly_ won the thread

nevermind that you are using literary and stage production terminology to refer to a video game 8)

What *I* don't understand is why you insist on arguing with a person about this game when this person has already bought it!! If you think the game sucks so bad, don't buy it! Oh my god!!!!!! You keep avoiding the fact that the STAGE LEVEL SETTING WHATEVER THE _FUCK_ YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT is NOT the only difference between these games!

but for some reason you have to keep arguing with me because at some point you were personally offended by me making a generalized statement about how to play the game.


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## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> zomg resorting to image macros from shitty webcomics
> 
> you have _clearly_ won the thread


That shitty webcomic makes a lot of people and their families a very comfortable living.  It also nicely packaged up my feelings in a humorous manner.



			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> nevermind that you are using literary and stage production terminology to refer to a video game 8)


Because it is basic english definitions and terminology that has been covering liturature and stage for hundreds of years.  Believe it or not it still *covers videogames* they just A. have not been around long enough yet, and B. aren't mainstreem enough to be commonly phrased in the textbooks yet, but they are under the same umbrella.

You ma'am are arguing the sheer lunacy that the word setting does not count in videogames like it does in every other english convention.  Reflect upon that for a moment.

Right now I could spend some time and set up examples of this and how it works.  I could draw parrallels between, literature, stage, movies, and videogames, and show how the rules apply to each of them, but you know what, I'm depressingly sure that it would probably make absolutely no difference if I did.



			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> What *I* don't understand is why you insist on arguing with a person about this game when this person has already bought it!!


Because it is absolutely irrelavant!



			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> If you think the game sucks so bad, don't buy it! Oh my god!!!!!!


ALSO absolutely positively irrelivant.  Not once in these last three pages did I say the game sucked, nor it it the reason that this thread was created.



			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> You keep avoiding the fact that the STAGE LEVEL SETTING WHATEVER THE _FUCK_ YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT is NOT the only difference between these games!


Because you keep going durrr durrr about it.



			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> but for some reason you have to keep arguing with me because at some point you were personally offended by me making a generalized statement about how to play the game.


No, I found it hilariously offensive to anybody that could have read it.  I was not angered by it, but I find no reason that others wouldn't be.  You might as well had said, "You stupid noobs don't know how to play teh game."  Oh wait you basically did.

I'd say the biggest problem is that you, you ma'am, came into this thread and started calling people stupid idiots that didn't know what they were talking about when it was proven several posts ago that the reason you came in to call us idiots for was absolutely wrong.  You yourself are what you accused us of being.  But then you continued and started going on and on.
So once again;


----------



## Litre (Oct 21, 2006)

Honestly, I'm with Hana with this one. Some if not most people play to kill crap and earn an e-penis on how l33t they are. (EA reinforced this with the leaderboards and stats at the end of the rounds; best squad, best class, weapon, vehicle, etc). I'm not saying some people enjoy a new "setting", but honestly, that can only go so far.

ex.: You can have two games based on the same thing, but the characters and modes and classes can be changed enough to warrant it a new game, maybe a few added new shinies. I'd call this a mod, but....yeah. People would still eat it up, because it's different enough to buy and play.

I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. Oh well. Too much TL;DR and semantics in this thread.


----------



## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

*smiles* You see that's a nice way of putting it.  Instead of saying "If you're not doing it like I say you're not doing it right".  Thank you for the imput Litre.


----------



## Litre (Oct 21, 2006)

Span_Wolf said:
			
		

> *smiles* You see that's a nice way of putting it.  Instead of saying "If you're not doing it like I say you're not doing it right".  Thank you for the imput Litre.



I don't care if I said it nicely to you or not, I was stating something that agreed with Hana's side of the argument. I suggest taking a chill if you're so personally offended by Hana's opinion(s).


----------



## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> Span_Wolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh but of course.  You agreed with one of Hana's oppinions and did not do it in a condescending or rude maner.  It was a refreshing change of pace in this thread and I honestly appreciated it.
Unfortunately the majority of Hana's oppinions/arguments were rambling and befuddling non sequiturs, some of which just steamrolled others.
I honestly doubt there would have been as much of an argument if the initial comments did not basically consist of calling us idiots that did not know what we were talking and not to mention being _absolutely wrong_ about it.  That would anger or offend anybody no matter how you slice it.

I wouldn't be pretentious enough to say that I've won the argument, but when somebody thinks that an honest and sound rebuttle is;
"I'm a girl, have fun with that one."
I don't think anybody wins that argument.


----------



## Litre (Oct 21, 2006)

technically she won that argument because she IS a girl.


----------



## Span_Wolf (Oct 21, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> technically she won that argument because she IS a girl.


You're funny, I like it. :lol:


----------



## Bokracroc (Oct 23, 2006)

Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The Australian version of 2142 however lacks the Dynamic Advertising feature [7] as such an act is illegal under the Australian Anti-Spyware bill.[8]


[7], [8]


----------



## Hanazawa (Oct 23, 2006)

So does that mean you'll be buying it now? :roll:


----------



## Zippo (Oct 23, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> I had the game on pre-order and was excited as hell about it... until I heard about the spyware.
> 
> Order cancelled.



Same here.

-Z


----------



## Litre (Oct 23, 2006)

It's not spyware -_-


----------



## Myr (Oct 23, 2006)

Litre said:
			
		

> It's not spyware -_-


It requires kernel-level access and a possible reppeal of a Microsoft security patch plus is installed automatically behind the scenes without it asking you for consent. It _is_ spyware. It's not simply adware; this thing is tracking you and watching you while you play.

If EA offered a discount on the game and slashed it to half off people wouldn't have such a problem. But EA is constantly taking and never giving anything back. They're taking with the full priced mod/total conversion, raised ranked server rental fees (you can't just go set up your own ranked server, you MUST buy theirs), and now this advertising stuff. I want to see something given back.

This whole ad thing is actually borderline bait and switch. They don't tell you this stuff is in the game until after you've bought it and openned it, and then most places don't give you your money back. Thus, the bait of a regular game without any special spyware/adware followed by the switch with that piece of paper tucked away inside causing you to suffer a loss because you're stuck with a piece of software you don't agree with and cannot get refunded for. Now normally I hate lawyers and sueing, but I would love to meet up with one and take on EA for this 3 - 0 taking scam. Perhaps if they gave something back I'd be more forgiving, but they haven't. It should be a cut and dry case given what Dell recently has gone through with DFS. It was a very similar situation except the other way around.


----------



## Spottycat (Oct 23, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=13049860
> 
> Anyone with half a brain wouldn't buy this. Apart from being a buggy mod, EA runs it (they killed BF2) and now this. But in the end it's all about the fanbois/grrls :roll:



Well, it's a damn shame that I don't think this is the worst thing ever to happen.

As long as they don't start advertising hemeroid creams and yeast infection killers on these boards and they manage to at least make the advertisements look like they fit the background they're going into (Which EA has stated that they `will` be quality controling the content) I'm absolutely fine with viewing an advertisement from time to time.

Spyware?  No it's not.   Overpriced?  No it's not.  Bugged and Glitchy?  Yes.  That's the actual reason to dislike EA's games.

Advertising in games shouldn't even be a worry and everyone that makes those damn photoshopped pictures is a whiny exaggerator.


[size=small]_I will own you in Battlefield 2142... and just about any other FPS just because you decided to whine about adverts._[/size]


----------



## Litre (Oct 23, 2006)

Spottycat said:
			
		

> *Spyware?  No it's not.   Overpriced?  No it's not.  Bugged and Glitchy?  Yes.  That's the actual reason to dislike EA's games.
> 
> Advertising in games shouldn't even be a worry and everyone that makes those damn photoshopped pictures is a whiny exaggerator.*


----------



## Hanazawa (Oct 23, 2006)

Myr said:
			
		

> This whole ad thing is actually borderline bait and switch. They don't tell you this stuff is in the game until after you've bought it and openned it, and then most places don't give you your money back. Thus, the bait of a regular game without any special spyware/adware followed by the switch with that piece of paper tucked away inside causing you to suffer a loss because you're stuck with a piece of software you don't agree with and cannot get refunded for.



I'm asking this in all seriousness;

How many people will buy this game on impulse? How many people will buy this game completely unaware of this so-called "spyware" now that it's out on the net? How many people will see the note and simply not read it? Read it and disregard it?
How many people will *fail to do some research* before buying the game and then *blame someone else* for the consequences?

The fact is, you don't know. It might be thousands of people, it might be nobody at all.

How does the phrase go? _Caveat emptor_?


----------



## Myr (Oct 23, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> I'm asking this in all seriousness;
> 
> How many people will buy this game on impulse? How many people will buy this game completely unaware of this so-called "spyware" now that it's out on the net? How many people will see the note and simply not read it? Read it and disregard it?
> How many people will *fail to do some research* before buying the game and then *blame someone else* for the consequences?
> ...


Yeah, that's right, we don't know one way or the other. You don't know just as well as I don't know. But my side has the advantage that we're in the fourth quarter here and the Christmas shopping season is just kicking off, thus the strategic marketing-driven deadline for BF 2142 to be shoved out the door this time of year. The fact is that many people will be purchasing this without doing research and without knowing what's inside the box because their kids or other relatives will put the game on their shopping list and these people will simply go out and buy it, commonly on impulse. The people here of the forums and online communities of other sites are such a small sampling of the overall whole of consumers, most in which see exaggerated CG scenes of what games don't look like and buy because it looks pretty or it'll run on their system. Real people don't do research on $50 video games. They do research on $1,000 TV's and other big ticket items. $50 is a drop in the bucket to the vast majority of people whom will be picking up a copy of BF 2142 because it's on the list.

The people who want this game and are putting it on those lists are also less inclined to be concerned about what's in the box because in their eyes they are getting the game for free as a gift. Thus, there's very little need to do research on it. All that really needs to happen is to see if people like it, see if it matches the requirements of your computer, and put it on the list. Thus, the requester nor the shopper is really paying much attention to the specifics of what they're buying other than it says "BattleField" on it and it's being advertised everywhere.



> How does the phrase go? _Caveat emptor_?


Doesn't matter. I can demonstrate the bait, the switch, and the loss the consumer suffers. The legal system is such that there's numerous ways to hold someone accountable and simply living by one standard like caveat emptor is not good enough these days. By your logic Dell would be able to continue to use DFS (Dell Financial Services) to bait people into 0% Financing (which it doesn't do even for people with FICO scores above 760). It might be nice if we all got along with caveat emptor because we wouldn't have idiots sueing because they spilled hot coffee all over themselves, but then again we wouldn't have much recourse if there was a genuine problem like Dell's blatant abuse of the 0% deal and then turning around and giving people with high FICO scores 25%+ interest rates.

The advertising software was not disclosed outside the box and the consumer is baited to believe they are just purchasing a regular game, then the switch comes when that piece of paper falls out and produces the spyware surprise. The consumer then suffers loss by not being able to reclaim their money through returning it for a refund through either the store they purchased it from nor EA. Bait, switch, loss/damage. It's firm legal ground to stand on if one has the money to fight EA's army of lawyers (I'm sure they have more lawyers than developers). I recall doing case studies on very similar situations in the past in a legal class. 9/10 it resulted in a victory or quick settlement, although I don't have the book with me at the moment to confirm that (you try lugging around a 2,000page law book...not fun).

This actually could be even adapted to contract law as well. EA would be liable for breach of contract because of that hidden slip of paper inside disclosing the spyware after the consumer has already openned their product. It's a change to the original purchase contract that changes the terms of the sale contract AFTER the transaction has already been finalized and is non-reversable thus leaving the end user with no ability to accept nor decline the changes to the contract rendering those changes illegal under US Law. An EULA is already on shakey ground but has thus far stood, but an auxiliary hidden component like the spyware does not have the same protections.


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## Hanazawa (Oct 23, 2006)

IF someone takes EA to court, I'm pretty sure it'll end up that EA isn't responsible for its retailers' return policies, the end.


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## nrr (Oct 23, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> IF someone takes EA to court, I'm pretty sure it'll end up that EA isn't responsible for its retailers' return policies, the end.


Keep it out of the courts.  Make it a known fact that is so painfully well-known that it hurts EA's net unit sales.

You know how to do this?  Independent advertising mechanisms.  They're viral.


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## Bokracroc (Oct 24, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> So does that mean you'll be buying it now? :roll:


No. It's still a half-arsed, overpriced mod.


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## Argon (Nov 6, 2006)

You know it's funny, even after someone told me 'the game has ads in it' I haven't noticed a single one, I'm way too busy looking for people to kill. Nothing about the ads ruins the game experience.

I will say the game has some bugs when it comes to recording awards and rank, but they are minor, and should soon be fixed. I'm having fun in the game, and don't intend to stop playing it, barring that it might get boring.

One other thing... aircraft is so weak! I really hope they give it more armor or something, the gunship is almost useless. The missle lock on is buggy so it almost has no point, and even at full speed you'll barely avoid lock-on EMP fire. It's a combination of jet and helicoptor from BF2, but with all the bad points instead of all the good points.  Theres no way I'll be able to get the silver gunship badge with it like this.


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## Cozmo (Nov 30, 2006)

.


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## TehSean (Dec 16, 2006)

For the record:  
There has been no official statement declaring when EA turns on the advertisment system and as far as I know, I've seen no actual adverts OTHER THAN the fictional military recruitment posters placeholders (Join the PAC! Join the EU!) which I imagine are going to be used for data to coax wary companies to buy space.

The spyware only records this data:
YOUR IP ADDRESS
(Numerous sites do this already)
(So you don't get Swedish advertisments if you live in Mexico)
DISTANCE FROM AD
ANGLE VIEWED FROM
DURATION VIEWED
and only becomes active within the game, while the game is running, only records data from the game itself.

I myself haven't seen any actual advertisments. The time I've been merely playing the game is over 4 Days. Just playing the game. First, there were no ads at all. Just the billboards. Then, they put up the fake recruitment posters.

------
Beacause it's EA, I imagine this does not equate to, when the ads actually do go live, free content.

Because it's EA.

I do hope it at least equates to: Faster patching. Reduced geometry exploits, which are still rampant once people figure out how to do them again, and weapons balancing. (Patching)
------

If you are a fan of the Battlefield 2142 series, then I'd say: By all means go for it.

But if not, and you own BF2, then I'd recommend the Total Realism "mini"mod found here:
http://www.realitymod.com/
All weapons are rebalanced. HUD is removed for the most part. Scoring system retooled (You earn points merely for surviving). Kit loadouts retooled. Vehicles overhauled (no more infinite MG ammo).

Here is a review that I'd dub "reliable"
http://www.totalbf2.com/page.php?do=reviewpr

Also, I ranked to Sergeant Major before I stopped playing, so I think my credentials with how well I know the game's in order  http://bf2s.com/player/47150068/


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## TehSean (Dec 18, 2006)

*Don't want to pay to play the Full Version of BF2142?*

Well then, check out the link!

I recommend registering a *new e-mail account* if you are worried about spam.

http://www.ea.com/official/battlefield/battlefield2/us/

Free Trial is available for.. some limited time... So check it out if you're still unsure about whether or not you'll buy it.

------------------

BF2142 Player Listing
http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=5037


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## RagingMinotaur (Jan 15, 2007)

I play BF2142 and love it.

But the ads are definitely noticeable. I've seen numerous 'Intel DualCore 2' ads on big billboards. It's mildly humorous... but kind of sickening.

Fortunately, there is hope. Eventually, those should be replaced by player-made mock advertisements....
I don't understand why the ads have to be there at all, though.

I haven't played any other BF's, but I have a great time playing this. It's really entertaining and great for down time. I love relieving stress by doing all I can to turn the tide of a battle.


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## Hanazawa (Jan 15, 2007)

I still haven't actually seen any ads...

and isn't EA taking fanart submissions to throw onto the billboards now? Because nobody was buying the adspace?


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## RagingMinotaur (Jan 15, 2007)

Maybe I'm losing my mind... if I see an intel ad, I'll screenshot it.

Ya.. apparently fanart will be put up.

And I haven't gotten any kind of junk mail and such -- just to address that issue. I don't think the game is imposing any kind of significant spying or anything..


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