# Costume Engineering



## Chanticleer (Jul 2, 2008)

Hi, I don't really suit (yet), but I do love building costumes and I was wondering if anyone was working on innovative fusuit designs that are cooler, more comfortable or easier to move in. 

A lot of the suit's I've seen tend to follow the same basic form (baggy, with an enlarged head.)

I was thinking of things like leaving the eyes completely exposed by masks and covering them up with large sunglasses to preserve visibility, or perhaps the use of skin tight fabrics to make them easier to move in, things like that.

So anyone out there trying something new?


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## Chickenspirit (Jul 2, 2008)

That's already been done. It's called "Use your own eyes".


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## Beastcub (Jul 2, 2008)

sunglasses fog up
and most fur material does not stretch well at all so they have to be baggy so you can move


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## Chanticleer (Jul 3, 2008)

Beastcub said:


> sunglasses fog up
> and most fur material does not stretch well at all so they have to be baggy so you can move



Hmmm... Is their any that does stretch? Could such a material be invented? 

Perhaps pieces of fabric could be very pecisely measured to fit the person and joints could be made with non furry stretchy fabric, then covered over with a more baggy layer of fur, leaving the joints baggy, but the other fur pulled taught?

Sometimes I wish I could draw diagrams on this forum...


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## Beastcub (Jul 3, 2008)

stretchy fur exists...it just costs twice as much


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

If you get a duct tape dummy of yourself when your costume is made you can get it fitted to you so it looks less baggy.  But some people don't like the bulk of fur and just get spandex suits with fur airbrushed on.  

And there is such a thing as stretchy fur.  It's just incredibly expensive.


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

kidsune said:


> =O
> really? is there a website so i can see a sample or something like that? :3
> i don't mind paying more for something i need. Unless it's known to be bad for some reason




http://www.nftech.com/
Just take note that their fur isn't soft at all.  It's used mainly for movies and such.  If you have a suit made of it, it will feel all stiff.


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## Chanticleer (Jul 3, 2008)

Ok, but what else can we improve?

Does anyone have a list of the problems with current suits that we could use as a reference?


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

Well there are so many ways to make suits, and so many pros and cons.  If you want a cooler suit, you can put spandex in the areas where your body produces the most heat, and then fur the rest.  You can add fans and such, or cold packs.  

Everyone has pretty much improved things to their liking.  Honestly.  For every problem you listed, there are alternatives that people have thought of.  But a lot of people don't care about those issues, or just don't have the money to fix those issues.  Which is why there are so many suits out there that have problems.


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

kidsune said:


> erf.. that kinda sucks. I suppose just tight-fitting will do, and as chanticleer said, have it slightly baggy in the joints for movement. The thing is, i'll be looking for specific coloured fur, i.e. black and pink, and cyan for the hair :3




http://www.distinctivefabric.com/fabric.php?product=SLDLGHRFUR1

You get 10 free swatches.    I love their stuff.

Oh crap, you're an Aussie right?  I'll see if I can find anything that is based there.  

http://www.bearycheap.com/ezimerchant/category41_1.htm
http://lavals.com.au/products/fauxfur/index.htm

Those 2 above are based in Australia.  
Oh and RoseQuoll lives over there, you might want to ask her where she gets her stuff.  
http://www.quollity.com/


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## Chanticleer (Jul 3, 2008)

leahthecheetah said:


> Well there are so many ways to make suits, and so many pros and cons.  If you want a cooler suit, you can put spandex in the areas where your body produces the most heat, and then fur the rest.  You can add fans and such, or cold packs.
> 
> Everyone has pretty much improved things to their liking.  Honestly.  For every problem you listed, there are alternatives that people have thought of.  But a lot of people don't care about those issues, or just don't have the money to fix those issues.  Which is why there are so many suits out there that have problems.



That's the "everything that can be invented has been invented" argument.

The point of brainstorming innovative ideas is to find better, more efficient and cheaper ways of doing things. You can't lose hope just because some attempted ideas have not proved affordable or attractive. C'mon, have some of the inventing spirit!


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

Chanticleer said:


> That's the "everything that can be invented has been invented" argument.
> 
> The point of brainstorming innovative ideas is to find better, more efficient and cheaper ways of doing things. You can't lose hope just because some attempted ideas have not proved affordable or attractive. C'mon, have some of the inventing spirit!



I wasn't saying that it was a bad thing.  I was just saying that most problems already have answers if that is what you were looking for.  Of course there are always ways to do new things and such.  I was just saying that there are things you can do now.


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 3, 2008)

I know It has probably been done since we have some smart furs out there, but I was thinking of somehow rigging up a coolant system similar to the ones astronauts wear in their bulky space suits. 

Really it just consists of an undershirt with flexable hose sewn into it in which cool water can flow though. Really it would be better than having a fan or somehting like that mounted which would prolly just circulate hot air.

The points that would give the most trouble would be figuring out some lightweight pumping mechanism which could be concealed. You would need some way to dissapate the heat as well unless you had a resivour and just kept adding ice to it.


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## Chanticleer (Jul 3, 2008)

Ferrous_Oxide said:


> I know It has probably been done since we have some smart furs out there, but I was thinking of somehow rigging up a coolant system similar to the ones astronauts wear in their bulky space suits.
> 
> Really it just consists of an undershirt with flexable hose sewn into it in which cool water can flow though. Really it would be better than having a fan or somehting like that mounted which would prolly just circulate hot air.
> 
> The points that would give the most trouble would be figuring out some lightweight pumping mechanism which could be concealed. You would need some way to dissapate the heat as well unless you had a resivour and just kept adding ice to it.



Hmm... like a water cooled computer. I like it, but it sounds a bit pricey.


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

Ferrous_Oxide said:


> I know It has probably been done since we have some smart furs out there, but I was thinking of somehow rigging up a coolant system similar to the ones astronauts wear in their bulky space suits.
> 
> Really it just consists of an undershirt with flexable hose sewn into it in which cool water can flow though. Really it would be better than having a fan or somehting like that mounted which would prolly just circulate hot air.
> 
> The points that would give the most trouble would be figuring out some lightweight pumping mechanism which could be concealed. You would need some way to dissapate the heat as well unless you had a resivour and just kept adding ice to it.



If you put an ice pack in front of the fan that blows on you..   It would be a lot more simple.  Or they have vests that you can slip ice packs into.  A lot cheaper and less complicated. XD


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 3, 2008)

leahthecheetah said:


> If you put an ice pack in front of the fan that blows on you..   It would be a lot more simple.  Or they have vests that you can slip ice packs into.  A lot cheaper and less complicated. XD




It may be a lot simpler but with a single ice pack in front of the fan I don't think you would get the kind of full body cooling and also vests with ice packs all over it might be a bit of a weight issue, maybe it would help to see an example though I don't know.


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 3, 2008)

Ferrous_Oxide said:


> It may be a lot simpler but with a single ice pack in front of the fan I don't think you would get the kind of full body cooling and also vests with ice packs all over it might be a bit of a weight issue, maybe it would help to see an example though I don't know.




I don't see how a few ice packs would be any heavier than what you were describing.  

http://www.dura-kold.com/dkkvest.htm


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## gliengul (Jul 3, 2008)

Ferrous_Oxide said:


> I know It has probably been done since we have some smart furs out there, but I was thinking of somehow rigging up a coolant system similar to the ones astronauts wear in their bulky space suits.
> 
> Really it just consists of an undershirt with flexable hose sewn into it in which cool water can flow though. Really it would be better than having a fan or somehting like that mounted which would prolly just circulate hot air.
> 
> The points that would give the most trouble would be figuring out some lightweight pumping mechanism which could be concealed. You would need some way to dissapate the heat as well unless you had a resivour and just kept adding ice to it.



are you talking about something like this http://www.eagleracingonline.com/coolsuit.html ?


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 3, 2008)

I know it may seem impractical or silly, and if that vest is a tried and true method then more power to ya. Just trying to think outside the box a bit. This is one coolant system I keep coming across, which is the most practical but still a ways off. Yeah it is probably expensive and all that, but as a hypothetical check it out.

http://www.gzespace.com/new/imgs/Racing/RACING_Gze_En.pdf


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## gliengul (Jul 3, 2008)

That is a pretty high-tech version of the same idea.
During the 2nd gulf war american soldiers used a bodysuit that was chilled by icewater from a bottle on their belts to keep them from overheating in chemical warfare suits(which are basically sealer rubber suits). If you can get one surplus then you'd have a chilled body suit that is powered by soda bottles half full of ice and half water, and probably save yourself a fair amount of time, frustration and money developing your own cooling system.


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 4, 2008)

gliengul said:


> That is a pretty high-tech version of the same idea.
> During the 2nd gulf war american soldiers used a bodysuit that was chilled by icewater from a bottle on their belts to keep them from overheating in chemical warfare suits(which are basically sealer rubber suits). If you can get one surplus then you'd have a chilled body suit that is powered by soda bottles half full of ice and half water, and probably save yourself a fair amount of time, frustration and money developing your own cooling system.




Yeah thats pretty much what I figured would be the most cost effective for a coolant system. Was there a pump in that system or was it just pure thermodynamics?


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 4, 2008)

kidsune said:


> That would be awesome if i lived in the US :Q
> They had the perfect colours, too...
> Ah well...
> 
> ...




Welcome!


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 4, 2008)

Ferrous_Oxide said:


> Yeah thats pretty much what I figured would be the most cost effective for a coolant system. Was there a pump in that system or was it just pure thermodynamics?




Honestly, how long do you plan to wear your suit anyways?  My boyfriend has severe heat issues, and hes fine for a few hours.  With no cooling at all. XD


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 4, 2008)

Well it would depend. Longer you could go in comfort the better I say. I am just trying to bring up some unique Ideas for suit designs.


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## Chanticleer (Jul 4, 2008)

Ferrous_Oxide said:


> Well it would depend. Longer you could go in comfort the better I say. I am just trying to bring up some unique Ideas for suit designs.



Now that's what I'm talking about.

Also, one of the reasons I brought up sunglasses earlier is that they would maintain the costume's illusion without obstructing your eyes. If they fog up, is their any way you could counteract it? I know my glasses have some sort of fog resistance (though I don't know a lot about how that works.)


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 4, 2008)

Well if you were able to vent the eyes enough it might not fog up, but you would probably be generating a lot of steam so it would be a challenge.


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 4, 2008)

Chanticleer said:


> Now that's what I'm talking about.
> 
> Also, one of the reasons I brought up sunglasses earlier is that they would maintain the costume's illusion without obstructing your eyes. If they fog up, is their any way you could counteract it? I know my glasses have some sort of fog resistance (though I don't know a lot about how that works.)



By rubbing bar soap on the lenses, and then using a rag to wipe the residue off is supposed to work.  Or you could ask a dive shop and see what they suggest for stopping their goggles from fogging.


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## leahthecheetah (Jul 4, 2008)

Oh and why not go all the way and add a catheter and a feeding tube so you don't have to take your suit off ever again!


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 4, 2008)

Yeah they have anti fogging solutions but really they never seem to work. Really I think they pretty much are just soapy solutions that they sell at high prices XP. I know they have those antifogging mirros that use an electic current. How you would adapt that to lenses without causing your suit's eyes to possibly melt out scarring any children for life who happen to be watching, I do not know.


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## Chanticleer (Jul 4, 2008)

Perhaps we are looking in the wrong direction. Glasses fog up because steam comes out the eye holes correct? Is it possible to somehow ventilate the suit and stop that from happening?

Or perhaps you could install some kind of air tight, goggle style connector to the area around your eyes and attach them to the suit so air will not flow out of the eye holes and thus will not fog the glasses.


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## Ferrous_Oxide (Jul 5, 2008)

It woud definitely be interesting to see. I get the mental image of a periscope fastened to your head for some reason XP


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## Nargle (Jul 6, 2008)

I've got an idea for stretchy skin tight fur! When I was a kid, my mom and I were in the rug hooking business. You could take some sort of stretchy, breathable fabric and some loose, fibrous yarn that would be like looooong strands of fur all twisted together, and then just construct it like a hooked rug. Then you'd just have to snip the tips of the fur, so it resembles fur instead of looped yarn. And voila! Cool, stretchy, soft, skin-tight fur! =D I'm betting though it might be a little time consuming, it'd be a LOT cheaper then the movie stuff!


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## Astro Fenn (Jul 7, 2008)

Well in regards to stretchy or skintight suits, I'm looking into Polar Fleece, or false velvet (i.e the stuff Primark tracsuits are made of (eh machine washable ^_^) it's not "fur" but still soft and will allow a degree of breathe-ability, it also has some give and stretch to it depending on how you cut it. Another option is Partial fursuits where you wear tighter clothes to show off your shape, or alternatively, wear a corset or integrate one into the suit (tricky but can theoretically be done.)


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## Yasmina_Chan (Jul 7, 2008)

Chanticleer said:


> Hmmm... Is their any that does stretch? Could such a material be invented?
> 
> Perhaps pieces of fabric could be very pecisely measured to fit the person and joints could be made with non furry stretchy fabric, then covered over with a more baggy layer of fur, leaving the joints baggy, but the other fur pulled taught?
> 
> Sometimes I wish I could draw diagrams on this forum...



Actually, there is stretchy fur out there, but not the same consistency or texture as your average bought-off-the-internet faux fur. There's a lot of plush fur, however, even in JoAnn Fabrics and other stores, that do stretch. Or you could consider a fur alternative, like crushed panne, or "crushed velvet" though shiny as it may be, it does give a good look to video game character fur. Might be something to consider? Eitherway, good luck!


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## TamaraRose (Jul 7, 2008)

i am  working on my fursuit i am going to  turn a  pair of shorts in to the  bottems and  i am expermenting with the arms  alittle


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## Straitfox (Jul 8, 2008)

Too bad I just suck at making fursuits


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## Chanticleer (Jul 8, 2008)

Hmm... I wonder if we could get anyone interested in building prototypes...                                        

Also, I was wondering If anyone was interested in working on paws that allow for easy hand movement and more dexterity. I know for a fact that doeskin gloves are very comfortable and easy to move in, though a bit pricey.


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## thebeast76 (Jul 9, 2008)

Chanticleer said:


> Hmm... I wonder if we could get anyone interested in building prototypes...
> 
> Also, I was wondering If anyone was interested in working on paws that allow for easy hand movement and more dexterity. I know for a fact that doeskin gloves are very comfortable and easy to move in, though a bit pricey.



I'm sure you could reverse engineer a pair from some cheap leather gloves.
Tear the seams and then trace the pieces onto some fur, cut 'em out, sew it up and bam! Paws.


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## Shadowedxrunes (Jul 9, 2008)

most of mine tend to come out skin tight by accident x) [on the body, arms and sometimes the legs, though my legs are kinda chunky so i want some room XD


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