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## ZavCoyote (Jul 13, 2010)

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## Smelge (Jul 13, 2010)

1) Apparently in MS Paint
2) Tiny unreadable text
3) Lack of drama, story or humour
4) I think the characterization of the wave is off. It's being portrayed as an unthinking protagonist intent on nothing more than wiping out the inexplicable floating wolf/dog. What is it's reasoning for this? Has the dog/cat pissed in one of the waves cousins? Has the mongoose/walrus been dumping toxic waste in the sea, and the wave is exacting moral revenge? More to the point, waves are formed when the fluid motion reaches shallows, such as coastline or a beach and the pressure forces it up into waves that sweep in. If it's deep enough water for the coyote/ugly to be diving, it's probably too deep for waves such as depicted above, unless it's a tsunami coming in, at which point getting swamped by it is only a minor consideration compared to the horrible agonising slicing death as he gets swept inland and cut to shreds by debris.
5) The grammar in the third panel is poor.


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## Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

What's with all the rudeness?


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## Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> From what side? His or mine? Because right now both are equally rude.


Smelge's not being rude. I'm pretty sure that's critiquing.


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## Smelge (Jul 13, 2010)

OK, hows about this.

MSPaint is a big no. The image resizing made it look as if it was a bad bmp to jpg conversion such as saving in Paint does. People making comics in MSPaint don't really care enough to find a decent free art program.

Secondly, the image size technically was your fault. All images go on pretty much ok if you use the correct 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 tags. Did you have it uploaded on imageshack, as they have this habit of resizing images when hotlinked? Or possibly, if you posted it at the size it is in your FA submission, chances are the forum has a maximum image width which kicked in to resize it to a more manageable size.

Third, at the size it was showing, it looked as if it was worded badly, however in the large size one I can see that I was incorrect so I retract that. Incidentally, I said GRAMMAR not spelling. Different things.

Fourth, critique isn't meant to circle the errors in red pen. If someone is complaining about a spelling error then it's fair game. It's sheer laziness not to run a comics text through a spellcheck first. But as there is a grand total of 3 lines, finding a spelling error shouldn't be a problem, even if I didn't actually mention a non-existant spelling error.

Fifth, that is not random babbling, that is deep thoughts. As it stood when on this page, the text was pretty illegible so I wasn't sure what was happening, so I delved into the visuals to try and glean story from it.

And as for the being rude thing, the only thing you failed to call me is a troll for having criticism.

Now, you need to work on flow for starters, the story should go from one panel to the next smoothly. At the moment it's a sequence of jarring pictures. It should still be understandable without text. More or less. However there are no indicators that anyone is underwater, so it's like he just popped out of nowhere for the sake of a quick joke. Working on anatomy would also be beneficial, do some studies and also work on canine physiology. You claim it's a coyote, though as it stands it has nothing to signify breed. At the moment it's a non-descript canid. Coyotes have various little tells, though unfortunately, it will always be a variant on dog.

Also, working on sizing is an idea. It's good practice to draw at a larger scale, but you should be resizing before posting. The internet does technically allow for an infinite canvas, but people get pissed having to scroll backwards and forwards for one strip. An ideal size would be around 5-600px wide.


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## Ak-Nolij (Jul 14, 2010)

Question: Have you ever heard of Scott McCloud? And second, acting as a smart-ass 15 yr-old doesn't earn you any cool points dude. 

Chill.


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## Stratelier (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> 2. As said, this site failed at image-tagging, so therefor the image is like half the original size, which also rapes quality.


If I may put it bluntly:  It can't rape what wasn't there to begin with. 
.
.
.
Sorry, I gotta apologize for that now.

Far too many people try to leverage "size destroys quality" as a crutch argument, when if they make a few simple changes to their own artistic process they can avoid and prevent the problem from occuring in the first place.



ZavCoyote said:


> I didn't know there was an "acceptable limit" on images for the viewers pleasing. But I guess it depends on the size of your monitor. The image IS large, now that you mention it. I didn't think much of it, since I was zoomed in when tracing.



A comic page is something like a forum post.  If the viewer is constantly having to hit their scroll buttons to move back and forth to read it, it detracts from their viewing pleasure, in fact some viewers will simply give up at that point and refuse to read it at all because having to constantly scroll is too much of a distraction.  _Unlike_ forum posts, which have the advantage of flowing and wrapping to automatically fit the user's window size, you must consciously fit your comic pages to a general size that will be easily viewable on most users' desktop resolutions.  Usually in the range of about 800 to 1000 pixels wide, as it seems the average desktop resolution these days is 1024x768 or larger.

Furthermore, your comic still needs to be readable even if it's sized down to 500 or 600 pixels wide.  Take a look at a number of successful webcomics out there (Penny Arcade, VGCats, Order Of The Stick, et al.), every one of them first easily within a user's monitor and yet it is still something you can read without having to pull out the magnifying glasses.

You seem to be composing this in the newspaper-strip format, nothing wrong with that provided you can fit each page within 3-4 panels at a time.  But if the text size isn't readable at, say, 500 pixels wide then you probably need to increase your font size or reduce the amount of dialogue present, depending.

The other common format is the manga/comic style where each page is vertically oriented and divided into panels that flow in rough horizontal rows one at a time, from the top of the page down.


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## Fenrari (Jul 14, 2010)

The concept of the picture was actually ok. Not really funny. But at least you're coming from somewhere.


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## Aden (Jul 14, 2010)

Your reactions to this thread make me want to pound the nail in as hard as I can, but I won't.

It's not funny. There's no timing. It's all so matter-of-fact and that's not comedic. The last panel makes it read like an unfunny meme comic. It's cool that you're trying which is more than I can say for most, but I can't find much good about it. 

I don't get the sun - in the second panel it's sad that a wave is coming but then it's happy again when the wave hits the dude?



ZavCoyote said:


> 1. It's NOT in MS Paint. It's GIMP.
> 2. As said, this site failed at image-tagging, so therefor the image is like half the original size, which also rapes quality.


 
What quality was there to be "raped"? Oh no don't you dare destroy my flat coloring and wobbly, single-thickness lines you dastardly image resizing


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## Riv (Jul 14, 2010)

It wasn't absolutely awful; I did appreciate the face on the sun, and the whole thing had a bit of a fun feel to it. But I agree with Aden that it's not really funny. One thing that I found really odd and distracting was the fact that the protagonist was speaking while underwater; "FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU" probably should have been in a thought cloud and not a speech bubble.


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## Aden (Jul 14, 2010)

Goodness this is awesome



ZavCoyote said:


> Jesus christ some of you are thick.
> 
> I don't mean quality in quality of the actual comic.
> Take a big image, put it in MS paint. Resize it. Doesn't look good, does it?
> *THAT'S THE QUALITY I MEAN*



And why are you resizing in MSPaint when "it's NOT in MS Paint. It's GIMP."



> Hot damn, noone can take a joke. So far most of you guys on this forum is incredibly thick. You either miss the point in a post completely, you can't take simple humor, and you are extremely srs busines lol all the fucking time.



Or maybe your shit just ain't funny

Also this entire thread is becoming an exercise in FAF humor



> @Aden
> The fuck do you mean "Stupid meme comic"? Where's the meme? Oh, that's right - nowhere.



[panel] [panel]
[panel] [fffuuuuu]



> Look at ANY fucking comic that has a smiling/reacting sun. It'll look worried when a catastrophy/whatever is about to happen, but when it turns out fine, it'll smile or laugh.



But it didn't turn out fine. We never saw the aftermath. The comic cut off at the apex of the action. The sun is laughing at this guy getting plowed by a wave.



> Jesus fucking christ, every 10th member or so in this forum is actually decent and kind enough to not act like a fucking ass.


 
I was going to be cordial but then I saw your reaction to the first crit


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> Jesus christ some of you are thick.


It's the burgers that do that.



> I don't mean quality in quality of the actual comic.
> Take a big image, put it in MS paint. Resize it. Doesn't look good, does it?
> *THAT'S THE QUALITY I MEAN*


Thought you said it was GIMP, not Paint. And you are wrong. Drawing at a larger size and reducing it to a good size usually hides flaws. If it compresses badly, you're making the errors, not the computer. The computer only does what you tell it to.



> Hot damn, noone can take a joke. So far most of you guys on this forum is incredibly thick. You either miss the point in a post completely, you can't take simple humor, and you are extremely srs busines lol all the fucking time.


You posted a comic up. So you are obviously in the market for opinions, advice and critique. Just because you don't like what people have to say doesn't mean it's not true or valid. You're presenting it as being humourous, it's obviously meant to be humourous, but it fails in that. So instead of taking offence, go away and do your next one better without the flaws of the original. This is called a learning experience.



> @Aden
> The fuck do you mean "Stupid meme comic"? Where's the meme? Oh, that's right - nowhere. So get your umb shit out of my thread, and stop saying stupid shit that doesn't even apply.


"FFFFUUUUUUU..." is a meme. That's where. You need to post a retraction and apologise.



> Look at ANY fucking comic that has a smiling/reacting sun. It'll look worried when a catastrophy/whatever is about to happen, but when it turns out fine, it'll smile or laugh.


"Hey, he drowned. Cool dude." You've got the timing wrong.



> Jesus fucking christ, every 10th member or so in this forum is actually decent and kind enough to not act like a fucking ass.


Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one and they're all filthy and wrong.



> It's a comic. Laws of physics don't apply.
> Hell, it's an _anthro_-comic. Laws of physics started breaking the moment the canine came out the water.


 Doesn't mean that it can't make some damn sense. You draw a comic, it's either humour or drama. It's obviously not drama, but you missed the mark on humour.

[edit]*FUCK YOU ADEN*[/edit]


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> FFFUUU is used so much it _isn't considered a meme anymore_. People use it pretty much every time


 
Which is the definition of a meme, you tit.


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

Also, this is the worst possible way to respond to criticism.

Out of interest, where is this other place you posted it?


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> FacePunch Studios Furry subforum.


 
Oh god.


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## Aden (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> FFFUUU is used so much it _isn't considered a meme anymore_. People use it pretty much every time



Please define "meme".



> and if you seriously can't take that joke, it makes you into something I have no words for. A fucking mongrel, that's all I can think of.



...or it's _not funny_. Why is this hard to grasp?
Also, it appears you need a bigger vocabulary



> You havn't read any comics. A _lot_ of comics end with no aftermath, and leave you at an ending like this, with no aftermath.



I do read a lot of comics. I don't like it when they do shit like that either.



> I have no words for you


 
I feel accomplished that I was able to render someone speechless with some light crit. If you want me to go heavy I can; just say the word. I didn't even get much into the art!



> you sheep-shagging, dingo-fuckin' wanker.



You do know that namecalling is the lowest form of argument, right


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm calling bullshit. I haven't seen this posted on Facepunch and I can't locate it, so I think you're making shit up now.


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## Aden (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> 1. A meme is something that is used rarely, or commonly, depending on a forum. Advice Dog is a meme. It rarelly occurs, and when it does it's not something you want it to do. FFFFUUUU is used so often, it's not considered a meme. Most threads on most forums can't reach 15-20 pages without getting a FFFUUUU in it (Not the comic, just the text FFFUUU).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_meme
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meme
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meme

It's any idea spread virally.



> 2. Or you have no sense of humor. Why is that so hard to grasp?
> 
> 3. Again - lack of humor in you. Fix it.



You're gonna get real far as a webcomics artist by blaming your readers when your material sucks


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> Posting it on a second forum proved different.  They had possitive reactions towards the comic. Like I said, every 10th  member as a sense of umor and is actually fun to talk to. The rest of  you are fucking boring biggots.


 
And here is the "positive" reactions: 





> Not too bad. Try to use a similar or common font and try to keep the  text spaced apart a bit more.



It's a single comment, not the masses you implied, and it's actually pretty neutral. Funny how you'll count something mildly positive as good critique, but discount anything you dislike.


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## Aden (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> But like I said - I never _even *seeked for any kind of critiscism. *_You start ranting about like I wanted it. If you even read the FA page, I clearly state it's just an experiment. I _don't_ want critiscism.


 
If you can't take negative comments, show it only to your hugboxing friends and don't post it in a public forum.



ZavCoyote said:


> "An idea spread virally"?
> Your conclusion says that the internet is a meme, every music piece ever is a meme, every piece of art is a meme - etc.



Now you need to look up the term "viral" as it pertains to internet culture.


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

Then you fail at life.

The way to learn and expand your knowledge as an artist is through criticism. If all you ever get are asspats, you'll stay way below mediocre. Criticism shows you what you can't see is wrong and encourages you to work on your flaws to improve yourself.

But you know, sorry for trying to help. Must be that whole "stupid people who know things trying to help me learn stuff" thing.


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> Critique is _not_ pointing out the flaws, it's telling what could be improved, and what is actually good within the comic.


 
Actually, all of those are critique. Critique is criticising. It would just be encouraging you to stay the same if everyone just said "oh yes, it's very good".



> So sayorana. This forum has been of no help, and probably never will.
> Scew the lot o' ya.



And nothing of value was lost.


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## Cero (Jul 14, 2010)

I'M LEAVING FOR GOOD THIS TIME U GUYS

not really I'll be back in 10 minutes


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> lNo, critique is *pointing out the good parts* and *pointing out what could be done better*
> Not just plain bashing what looks horrid, saying what looks like shit, and not leaving any sign that anything was good. You all fail at understandng critique, which makes this a horrible place.
> 
> You say you don't like memes? "Nothing of value was lost" is a meme.
> Bye.



Wrong!



> *criÂ·tique*
> 
> â€‚
> 
> ...






But apparently you know more about critique than the Oxford Dictionary.


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Jul 14, 2010)

I hope you guys still realize you're having a shitstorm-argument over a three panels comic of some badly drawn dude being nearly drowned by a wave and a sun lolling.


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

FrancisBlack said:


> I hope you guys still realize you're having a shitstorm-argument over a three panels comic of some badly drawn dude being nearly drowned by a wave and a sun lolling.


 
It's not our fault the OP doesn't like criticism.


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Jul 14, 2010)

Smelge said:


> It's not our fault the OP doesn't like criticism.


 
But that's usually where you walk away slowly, go take a breath of fresh air, and bang your girlfriend. :V


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## Riv (Jul 14, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> *Tell me what ya think.*


 
They did. You ragequit. Congrats.


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## Smelge (Jul 14, 2010)

FrancisBlack said:


> But that's usually where you walk away slowly, go take a breath of fresh air, and bang your girlfriend. :V


 
She has mace, and this was more fun.

Fun fact: The OP has apparently been banned from Facepunch 3 times now because he disagrees with what people say. Anger management much?


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## Aden (Jul 14, 2010)

FrancisBlack said:


> But that's usually where you walk away slowly, go take a breath of fresh air, and bang your girlfriend. :V


 
But I'm bored

also
>girlfriend


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Jul 14, 2010)

Aden said:


> But I'm bored
> 
> also
> >girlfriend


 oh sorry addens i thought you were a lesbian
also why don't we go play second life together i feel like you would find that activity enjoyable


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## Machine (Jul 14, 2010)

Ragequitting already?

Nice sig, OP.


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## Stratelier (Jul 15, 2010)

ZavCoyote said:


> But like I said - I never _even *seeked for any kind of critiscism.*_


_

If all you wanted is a first impression and done, that's fine, but what should we do if we get a negative first impression?  It could be for any reason, but what should we do?  We can tell the truth, we could lie about it, or simply not say anything, shut up and walk away.

Again, I apologize for acting like a Simon Cowell in my last post here.  I don't have much feedback to give on the actual comic.  Personally, I don't see any humor in it.  Amusing, perhaps, but funny?  Nope, nowhere near my personal funny bone.  I think three panels is overkill -- everything is communicated by the third panel, the first two are practically filler -- and it could have been more effectively communicated in a wide-format single panel.  Peaceful still water on the left third (with part of the caption to set it up), the subject surfacing for air in the middle third (facing left), and a titanic wave approaching from the right (where he's not looking), with the caption's punchline right next to the wave.  Writers always preach about "show, don't tell", but this is one case where it would be better left implied.  You don't have to show it crashing down on him -- the viewer reads the panel from left to right, sees the approaching wave, they know what's going to happen; done._


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## Fenrari (Jul 15, 2010)

Riv said:


> They did. You ragequit. Congrats.


 
Yeppers that really sums up this whole situation.


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