# Do you like to talk about politics ?



## Furrium (Feb 27, 2019)

About what is happening in your country and about foreign policy.

I was so battered by life that I just hate talking about politics, this is the worst thing to talk about. 

You immediately understand that the world is a complete shit, all countries in it want only war and the expansion of their territories and the destruction of their opponents, any country intends to turn their people into zombies who are ready to wipe the enemy off the face of the Earth.  

It's so sad, but it’s law of life.


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## KimberVaile (Feb 27, 2019)

I like differing perspectives, because I think it helps me better understand the world around me and how others see it. Knowing where their views come from helps me to better empathize with people, so I've always kept myself open to these sort of discussions. Political discussion is not inherently bad. 

More so, some of the people who debate them. Some tend to get away too invested, hence, why a good many political threads devolve into personal attacks and accusations.


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## CertifiedCervine (Feb 27, 2019)

As Kimber mentioned, I also like to discuss and open my mind to other things, though I’d rather discuss politics in person. Online politics are a nightmare. People end up trying to attack you personally, and will name call, accuse, etc. instead of actually discussing politics.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Feb 27, 2019)

*NOPE!* Politics are a pain.


KimberVaile said:


> I like differing perspectives, because I think it helps me better understand the world around me and how others see it. Knowing where their views come from helps me to better empathize with people, so I've always kept myself open to these sort of discussions. Political discussion is not inherently bad.
> 
> More so, some of the people who debate them. Some tend to get away too invested, hence, why a good many political threads devolve into personal attacks and accusations.


True but it is tiresome that politics dominate this current generation waaaaaayyyyy too much. I wish people were more interested in talking about a different things. (Though I do admit I am a hypocrite for posting in politic threads frequently.)


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## JakeTheFoXx (Feb 27, 2019)

Not a huge fan of talking about politics, but there is a time and a place. We all have our view points and our perspective on things, and often times I think people like to think they are open minded about stuff, but in reality like @KimberVaile said, it gets ugly quick. I personally avoid the threads that talk about politics on here. Not to knock anyone who enjoys engaging in political discussion and debate on here, but for me, the Fandom is my escape from the political discord that surrounds me in my day to day life. I will say that on the forums here, the threads that are designated to the discussion of politics are kept on those threads.


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## KimberVaile (Feb 27, 2019)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> *NOPE!* Politics are a pain.
> 
> True but it is tiresome that politics dominate this current generation waaaaaayyyyy too much. I wish people were more interested in talking about a different things. (Though I do admit I am a hypocrite for posting in politic threads frequently.)



It's a bit of a double edged sword. For some people, these political viewpoints are at the core of their being, something that strongly pronounces the type of person they are. In that sense, it is important to know, because it's a big part of what some people are. Though because of that, people often take stances against their political beliefs as personal attacks. I do agree though, some people should try to separate them and their politics just enough to be able to debate about it civilly at the very least.


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## Dragoneer (Feb 27, 2019)

I hate talking about politics... but sometimes it's a necessity. Politics impacts all of our lives, sometimes for the better (clean air, clean water acts, regulations to keep pollutants at bay) sometimes for the worst (Trump tax cuts, lack of net neutrality, Article 13). It's genuinely important that everyone know what's going on and how things around them can impact them, but talking about politics is... well, toxic. Having a good conversation about politics is extremely hard because people have become so polarized, and at times, borderline extreme in their views.


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## Simo (Feb 27, 2019)

I like to, but not on furry sites.


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## Aznig (Feb 27, 2019)

In agreement with Simo. Politics are important but this fandom is a place for escapism. I despise seeing so many political agendas being pushed here. While a lot of people like to say “well politics are real life and the fandom is real life so politics are just a fact here” I have to argue that there’s just a time and a place for these things. Hasn’t anyone ever heard that you shouldn’t discuss politics at the family dinner?! I have the same attitude here. Yes, politics are important but this isn’t a political forum.

And yes, I’d be _more than happy _to see all political discussion banned from these forums.


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## Marius Merganser (Feb 27, 2019)

I try to keep up on politics and I don't mind talking about it as long as it's not with someone who dismisses everything based purely on political lines.  
But FA is one of the places where I go to get away from politics.


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## KimberVaile (Feb 27, 2019)

Aznig said:


> In agreement with Simo. Politics are important but this fandom is a place for escapism. I despise seeing so many political agendas being pushed here. While a lot of people like to say “well politics are real life and the fandom is real life so politics are just a fact here” I have to argue that there’s just a time and a place for these things. Hasn’t anyone ever heard that you shouldn’t discuss politics at the family dinner?! I have the same attitude here. Yes, politics are important but this isn’t a political forum.
> 
> And yes, I’d be _more than happy _to see all political discussion banned from these forums.



It's more a user conduct problem than say, an inherent issue with politics. If you want to make a political thread for your pals on here, it is not inherently inappropriate I'd posit, if you are all happy to do so. For some, it is an important way to connect.


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## GlitterFog (Feb 27, 2019)

My interest in the topic grew a lot with age, but rather than discuss, I try to observe. After all, it is a society, a country, a world that dictates what my whole life will be like. I can't ignore it completely nor do I want to. So much has happened, from my perspective especially during those past few years, my country turned towards a direction I wasn't prepared for and the society seems more divided than ever. And the rest of the world seems to be following a similar unfortunate pattern.
That being said, I lack a ton of knowledge concerning pretty much everything - history, economics, international relations and so on, that I do not take my own views too seriously. I do have them, but I am painfully aware that in reality I'm just blabbering and repeating stuff I've heard on one or the other media, without any real arguments to support that.
The other very self aware point is that I do enjoy enclosing myself in echo chambers and I'm very happy my family shares similar views, so in our discussions we basically ensure each other we're right. Is it bad? It's absolutelly atrocious. But it's there.


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## Dongding (Feb 27, 2019)

No point duscussing politics if you aren't going to actively participate in them, so no.

Most of the cerebral-dick measuring that goes on in this site is impotent AF and sad. What a terrible place to discuss politics.


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## Aznig (Feb 27, 2019)

KimberVaile said:


> It's more a user conduct problem than say, an inherent issue with politics. If you want to make a political thread for your pals on here, it is not inherently inappropriate I'd posit, if you are all happy to do so. For some, it is an important way to connect.



Yes, I do understand that. My only question is why it must be done here. Why not privately or on a more appropriate forum?


Edit: and for the record, yes, it has a hell of a lot more to do with how users treat each other.


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## KimberVaile (Feb 27, 2019)

Aznig said:


> Yes, I do understand that. My only question is why it must be done here. Why not privately or on a more appropriate forum?


Because the fandom is not an escapist fantasy for all people, I think. Some see it differently, some feel more at home at this forum and the people there, and would like to discuss it on a place that's worn in and understandable to them. It is not inappropriate to want a mature discussion here, and I wouldn't tell anybody talking politics here they are wrong for wanting to do so in a place that feels comfortable to them.


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## Le Chat Nécro (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm pretty sure I've said this before but I'm kind of "meh" on it. Like I don't love it, don't hate it. 

In person I hate it. In person it's all rapid fire and there's no time to think, and it feels more personal since you're actively talking to a person than into the void of the internet. Online at least there's a separation, you can take time to formulate a response instead of having to speak off the cuff (which can lead to worse arguments and more attacks), and you can always log off if it gets too much.

Not that online is perfect either... *gestures around the site as evidence*. But I'm not going to rally for political threads to be banned here either. They have their place and shit affects all of us. 

Basically, I'm not going to go out of my way to get into political kerfuffles but I'm not going to actively avoid it either. I'm most likely to get involved if it's something that is really important to me, and in that case I like it because it is meaningful to me rather than just a thing to do on the internet.


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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Feb 27, 2019)

Sorry bro, but I love it. =p
Eh try not to think too pessimistically. The world is a lot less fucked up today than it was before. Because of national policies, int'l institutions, and organizations, which are mostly political. Look for instance how many less people these days are affected by or killed in war from the past. I really love politics and it actually does make me kinda sad when I see people stray away from the subject as it has a huge impact on your life, and everyone else's. Additionally, understanding politics can help to change the poor situations in your home, and around the world. I understand it's not for everyone, and that's 100% okay. I also understand the limits of political discourse in different countries. I just hope it's not because of the more negative 'social' side of politics, or people with too much dogma. Don't worry too much especially if someone disagrees. The key is not to get angry and to try and listen and learn, rather than just counter someone. Anyways, I hope one day you change your mind bout politics.


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## Infrarednexus (Feb 27, 2019)

I honestly don't enjoy it that much as I used to. It's productive and fine at first to me, but now I hate it once things get personal, aggressive, and far off topic.


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## The Matte-Black Cat (Feb 27, 2019)

CapReMount said:


> *You immediately understand that the world is a complete shit*



Me and you have somethings in common. :3

I'm about 90% Misanthropic, and I _Hate_ politics as well - with a passion. I have no faith in the government, and barely have any faith in humanity itself. I feel that no matter Who we put in office - Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, "Independent" - anyone with a label is just gonna sit on their ass and swim in money, while continuously making empty promises.

I even made my own label, Anti-Political..

I feel that the issues that are constantly being focused on are rather petty with hardly any true solution (to say the least). I feel that there are much more simple yet grand objectives we should focus on to make the country better as a Whole - for Everyone.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Feb 27, 2019)

Given the bias of one of the staff here, I'm going to steer away from political talks here.


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## Dragoneer (Feb 27, 2019)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Given the bias of one of the staff here, I'm going to steer away from political talks here.


Everybody has their preferences. Feel free to discuss politics so long as you do so in a civil fashion. Most of my family at Trump supporters. I'm not. It's not a big deal so long as people conduct their differences in an agreeable manner. I think that's the least anyone can ask, really.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Feb 27, 2019)

I don't enjoy discussing politics all that much, but I might as well explain why:

I break from my family on quite a few political issues (they're Trump supporters whereas I soured on the guy - though NO ONE in my family has much faith in the government or humanity otherwise, not even me), and I find they can only be approached their way on most of those issues (they're practically allergic to any tax or climate change discussion, for instance).
I recently had a bit of a malign paradigm shift, where I discovered that the way I understood the parties growing up and the way everyone else understands them are completely different from each other.  Thanks to said malign paradigm shift, I made the big mistake of trying to cram 15-20 years of political development into 1 year - and burnt myself out on politics in the process.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I'm having little luck finding the people who actually read into issues.  Too often, people wind up spouting the same tired rhetoric when they could find a MUCH more convincing argument if they investigated a little more carefully.
I will say I have actually been tempted to write to my representative for once in my life.  Other than that, though, I'll let the political stuff drop into my lap rather than actively chase them - my political burnout is probably something I'll never truly overcome.


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## Telnac (Feb 28, 2019)

I used to love talking about politics. I love a spirited debate. However the state of the political divide in recent years has made debate impossible. It's all just about being the loudest, most obnoxious voice these days. There's no discussion of issues, just ad hominems and pejoratives. If you're left of center you're a communist. If you're right of center you're a nazi. That's why I've decided to just stay out of it lately.


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## David Drake (Feb 28, 2019)

I hate hate hate hate politics, but I force myself to try and stop the spread of misinformation and dangerous ideologies where I see them for the safety and benefit of me and my peers. If we sit back and ignore it, things will get much worse much quicker.


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## 1234554321 (Feb 28, 2019)

Just look at my signature


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## dragon-in-sight (Feb 28, 2019)

Yes I do. I'm interested in domestic policy and foreign policy, and like to discuss matters of these subject, aslong the discussion is sober, polite and  based on facts.


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## Jackpot Raccuki (Feb 28, 2019)

I don't like politics. But sadly, it's a thing I've got to deal with.
I never talk about it in real life unless it's making jokes. (Case and point, WALL.)

Online, I guess i'm fine with talking about it, but usually I'm very behind, like someone lagging in a game.


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## Faexie (Feb 28, 2019)

CapReMount said:


> About what is happening in your country and about foreign policy.
> 
> I was so battered by life that I just hate talking about politics, this is the worst thing to talk about.
> 
> ...


I think the main motivation is money tbh.

There are many coutries that have little to no interest in war, like Canada and Switzerland.

And besides, inter countries wars are seeing a big decrease in the last decades, it's more like civil wars in places that do need change now. And even then the overall level of violence is getting lower


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## Faexie (Feb 28, 2019)

The Matte-Black Cat said:


> Me and you have somethings in common. :3
> 
> I'm about 90% Misanthropic, and I _Hate_ politics as well - with a passion. I have no faith in the government, and barely have any faith in humanity itself. I feel that no matter Who we put in office - Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, "Independent" - anyone with a label is just gonna sit on their ass and swim in money, while continuously making empty promises.
> 
> ...



There's already a label for that  Though it's fine if you want to use another since there are misconceptions about it.

What I'm talking about is anarchism, wich means anti-hierachism. So no, contrary to popular belief, anarchism is not about chaos and the law of the strongest/whealthiest (which would still be a hierarchy )


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## ManicTherapsid (Feb 28, 2019)

I like to discuss politics IRL, usually when drinking, as Heinlein said "nothing uses up alcohol faster than political argument". 
But I really don't like to online, even on social media with people I know.


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## Liseran Thistle (Mar 4, 2019)

i honestly hate political discussions in general just because so many people out there are just trying to weasel their way into naive people's head space and convert them to a dangerous group or ideology. Also sometimes the political discussions aren't that interesting or even all that political. Remember when Battlefield V came out and all anyone wanted to talk about was how "oh no there's a WOMAN in the game, how historically inaccurate!" 

and everyone else including myself was like "It's a video game my dude, of course it wasn't historically accurate, and if the cover of the box said it was, then congratulations you just fell for literally the first level of advertising." Like sometimes things that people think are political are just dumb stupid debates about women in video games that claim to be historical, or a gay person in a piece of media that normally didn't have gay people in it. I'm more or less opposed to political discourse in fictional media, like in fandoms for instance, because most of the time its just people being overtly Homophobic or sexist in there idea of how marginalized groups in media should be portrayed, and getting pissy when those groups of people find themselves in tv shows and video games, mainly because it's all fictional at the end of the day, and we can do whatever we want with fictional characters.

If you're the type of person to get so mad at the idea of Doomguy being a woman, or the Ghostbusters being women, or having a gay person in a historical drama, or having a black person play a character in a play who wasn't previously black that you have to make videos on it and write essays on the subject, than you're getting far too invested in the world these characters are in and have forgotten that they don't exist. The wonderful thing about fiction is that these characters aren't real and that anyone can do whatever they want with them simply because they exist in a world not constrained to our rules.

And if you are also the type of person to get mad because they had a minority group in a historical drama, let me tell you that there has already been substantial proof of literally every type of minority existing in any historical setting you can think of, and even if you wanna argue that "well there weren't that many" or "That was just an isolated case" let me then remind you that historical dramas are tv shows or movies or books, and that yes at times they try to be historically accurate in the sense of clothign and setting, simply getting mad because there was shot of a black person in the background, or that one of the soldiers on the battlefield happened to be someone who wasn't white is more telling of your own personal view of history.


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## ManicTherapsid (Mar 4, 2019)

I don't really see why anyone made a big deal with women in Battlefield V. Some of the Soviet's best snipers and pilots were women.  Also, it was'nt anything new in a WW2 video game since the main character in Medal of Honor Underground was a woman.  Nobody seemed to care when that came out, but that was 20 years ago when things were less political I suppose. There were also women NPCs in Call of Duty 1.


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## ConorHyena (Mar 4, 2019)

I only like to debate politics IRL. Online is so slow and boring and fraught with misunderstanding.


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## WolfyAmbassador (Mar 4, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I only like to debate politics IRL. Online is so slow and boring and fraught with misunderstanding.


 It depends, if you find like-minded people it's not as bad.


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## NightTripper (Mar 4, 2019)

Nope. I don't really need further conformation that most humans are stupid.


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## Anon Raccoon (Mar 4, 2019)

You bet your sweet ass i like talking about politics! I feel it broadens the mind. Rationalizing your own position is a very healthy mental exercise in my opinion and should be encouraged! Not shut down or screamed at.


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## goatwolff (Mar 4, 2019)

NO. unless i have to


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## Yakamaru (Mar 5, 2019)

I don't mind politics. Tho as already previously mentioned by someone else, it's more about the people involved. And because of that is one of the reasons I am usually avoiding such threads made on the forum at this point in general because it always devolve into the same shitty people ruining it because they have an agenda on their mind as opposed to just having a conversation we can learn from. 

People hate being told what to say, what to think, what words to use, what to believe, who to interact/associate with, +++. If you are more interested in the person as opposed to the idea and/or event that is talked about, everyone is going to be wary of you. And it shows on this forum, blatantly so.


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## Guifrog (Mar 5, 2019)

Not here. I solemnly avoid it~

As for talking about my country politics, it can be rather puzzling. We have more than 30 big parties, more to be created and plenty of Barack Obama's ran for office once


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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 5, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> i honestly hate political discussions in general just because so many people out there are just trying to weasel their way into naive people's head space and convert them to a dangerous group or ideology.


Yeah cuz you clearly don't do that whatsoever..


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## kekuee (Mar 5, 2019)

Like? ...Uh...
How about "_tolerate_"?

Like, I can talk about politics, that's fine. It becomes a problem when people start taking offense at other peoples' opinions and start getting heated. Admit it, you've done it. I've done it. We've all done it. And guess what two things make that happen the most? Sports and *politics*. _YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY_.

A couple weeks ago someone was having a heated argument over his _very radical_ opinion about a certain group (figure it out yourself, you're smart). For a clue, this same person said if someone joined his Garry's Mod server with the name Ben Shapiro he'd instantly permaban them. Right on the spot. Dude. Wadafak.

By the way, that Gmod server died very soon after he said that second thing. Oof.


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## kekuee (Mar 5, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Yeah cuz you clearly don't do that whatsoever..


I think you may need this.


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## Liseran Thistle (Mar 5, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Yeah cuz you clearly don't do that whatsoever..




i dont do that at all actually, and for you to compare me to those who do is very disheartnening and just goes to show that you have absolutely no idea who i mean when I say "those who like to convert others to a dangerous ideology" or (and this is the terrifying part), you actually do know who i mean when i say that and actually think me saying something along the lines of:

"hey, maybe we should just respect the way people portray themselves in media instead of shitting all over it every single time someone does, all the while yelling 'Diversty is white genocide' when they want to play a character that wasn't their original ethinicity, or participate in a play and be a certain character but have a skintone that is just a few shades too dark compared to the original. Because at the end of the day its all fiction and it shouldn't matter all that much who gets to play who as long as they can do a good job of portraying the character in whatever form the story takes"

is somehow comparable to wanting to force my way into impressionable people's minds to convert them to a fascist and racist political movement.


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## kekuee (Mar 6, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> Remember when Battlefield V came out and all anyone wanted to talk about was how "oh no there's a WOMAN in the game, how historically inaccurate!"
> 
> and everyone else including myself was like "It's a video game my dude, of course it wasn't historically accurate, and if the cover of the box said it was, then congratulations you just fell for literally the first level of advertising."



I think part of that was that the launch event of BF5 had Trevor Noah saying that the game was extremely realistic and that the team took great care in making sure it was true to history...

...but they allowed players to play as whamen soldiers, which didn't really happen in WW2 except if you were in Russia.

I don't care though. It's a vidya gamme. Y y'all hav 2 b mad?


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## Fallowfox (Mar 6, 2019)

In real life, yes I like to talk about it sometimes. Although I find it a bore if I go to the pub and _that's_ what somebody wants to discuss. 

_On this forum_ I don't really discuss my own ideas; I only post about politics in order to stop rumours or nasty attitudes from being spread. 
Saying hi to @Liseran Thistle there, who seems to be on the same wavelength.


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## CrookedCroc (Mar 6, 2019)

If it is irl yeah sure, people tend to be more polite and willing to listen when discussing things face to face

Online? Hahaha no. I rather see blood in my urine than another political discussions that goes nowhere


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## larigot (Mar 6, 2019)

The old adage says to avoid politics and religion at the dinner table, but that's no fun though.


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## Tyno (Mar 6, 2019)

Only for memes


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## Fallowfox (Mar 6, 2019)

larigot said:


> The old adage says to avoid politics and religion at the dinner table, but that's no fun though.



That saying's wrong btw. 

Avoid _Brussels-sprouts_ at the dinner table.


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## larigot (Mar 6, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> Avoid _Brussels-sprouts_ at the dinner table.



I disagree; brussels sprouts is the third most interesting topic to discuss at, and beyond, the dinner table.


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## Xitheon (Mar 6, 2019)

Not really. I just watch Meyers and Colbert take the piss out of Trump on YouTube. "Lol, Hamburders" is the only enjoyment I get out of politics, to be honest.


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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 6, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> i dont do that at all actually, and for you to compare me to those who do is very disheartnening and just goes to show that you have absolutely no idea who i mean when I say "those who like to convert others to a dangerous ideology" or (and this is the terrifying part), you actually do know who i mean when i say that and actually think me saying something along the lines of:
> 
> "hey, maybe we should just respect the way people portray themselves in media instead of shitting all over it every single time someone does, all the while yelling 'Diversty is white genocide' when they want to play a character that wasn't their original ethinicity, or participate in a play and be a certain character but have a skintone that is just a few shades too dark compared to the original. Because at the end of the day its all fiction and it shouldn't matter all that much who gets to play who as long as they can do a good job of portraying the character in whatever form the story takes"
> 
> is somehow comparable to wanting to force my way into impressionable people's minds to convert them to a fascist and racist political movement.


Look don't get me wrong. I'm not and won't be bothered by your opinions (Anyone's for that matter). I like hearing differing opinions. I just don't see the point in starting a post with claiming to not like talking politics, or ideological manipulation, then follow up with paragraphs loaded with political and ideological statements. Just be honest and say your biases, and opinions. It's okay.


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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 6, 2019)

kekuee said:


> I think you may need this.


Yeah dude that's why I write in long responses.. lol okay


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## Liseran Thistle (Mar 6, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Look don't get me wrong. I'm not and won't be bothered by your opinions (Anyone's for that matter). I like hearing differing opinions. I just don't see the point in starting a post with claiming to not like talking politics, or ideological manipulation, then follow up with paragraphs loaded with political and ideological statements. Just be honest and say your biases, and opinions. It's okay.



i don't understand what your actual problem is, the point of the thread is obviously to hear people's opinions and if mines a lot longer than who cares? maybe don't read my long ass posts about politics if you don't "get it"


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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 6, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> i don't understand what your actual problem is, the point of the thread is obviously to hear people's opinions and if mines a lot longer than who cares? maybe don't read my long ass posts about politics if you don't "get it"


No I get it. And pretty well. I previously held similar opinions/values. And I'll say for the second time. I'm not bothered by your opinions or beliefs. I actually prefer hearing other opinions. It helps me to think about my own opinions and maybe I'll change my mind on somethings. I don't agree with your all of your opinions and that's fine. I just don't believe you when you claim to not like talking politics. Especially if you will write a long political post. It doesn't match up. I also don't think it's right or fair to critique ideology or a specific one while projecting your own ideology. 
The world is only full of subjective truths. The best we can do is try and work towards an objective compromise.


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## Liseran Thistle (Mar 6, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> No I get it. And pretty well. I previously held similar opinions/values. And I'll say for the second time. I'm not bothered by your opinions or beliefs. I actually prefer hearing other opinions. It helps me to think about my own opinions and maybe I'll change my mind on somethings. I don't agree with your all of your opinions and that's fine. I just don't believe you when you claim to not like talking politics. Especially if you will write a long political post. It doesn't match up. I also don't think it's right or fair to critique ideology or a specific one while projecting your own ideology.
> The world is only full of subjective truths. The best we can do is try and work towards an objective compromise.


 
You say that like people can't dislike a thing and not go on long tirades about how they don't like that particular thing. It's not so hard to understand why I, a person who doesn't like politics, would go on a long rant about how much I dislike politics. 

Also the whole point of my rant was that I dislike politics, mainly in fandom spaces, because most of the time people in those spaces are just trying to weasel there way into other people's head spaces and convert them to fascist beliefs. I'm kind of mad now, because you flagrantly compared me saying we should accept the way people portray themselves in media to wanting to convert someone to horribly fascist ideas, and then to top it all off you're just completely ignoring that in favor of lecturing me on how you just "don't get how someone who doesn't like politics could possibly go on long  tirades about the things they don't like" as if me not liking politics has just exempt me from all forms of ranting. As if Im being some what dishonest in saying I don't like talking about politics, because I happened to go on a rant about how much I dislike it. 

It's almost like this is a thread specifically for talking about politics, and whether I like to talk about it or not, and that in my own experience in answering that very question I found I didn't like politics being discussed in specific social circles. It's almost as if when I did write my long rant about not liking politics, I couldn't avoid being political because that's literally what the thread is about, and writing anything with your opinion in it without mentioning the subject at all is the exact opposite of what good writing is. It's almost like I wrote how much I dislike politics in a thread asking me whether or not I like talking about it, because I happened to be very oppinionated in the matter and have thought about it long and hard. 

I'm being pedantic, but anyway yeah, I don't like politics, and I don't like talking about them. I am not in anyway being dishonest when I say that, or even when I say it in long, lengthy posts like this one. There is a big difference between being extremely opinionated on something and liking politics obviously.


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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 6, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> You say that like people can't dislike a thing and not go on long tirades about how they don't like that particular thing. It's not so hard to understand why I, a person who doesn't like politics, would go on a long rant about how much I dislike politics.
> 
> Also the whole point of my rant was that I dislike politics, mainly in fandom spaces, because most of the time people in those spaces are just trying to weasel there way into other people's head spaces and convert them to fascist beliefs. I'm kind of mad now, because you flagrantly compared me saying we should accept the way people portray themselves in media to wanting to convert someone to horribly fascist ideas, and then to top it all off you're just completely ignoring that in favor of lecturing me on how you just "don't get how someone who doesn't like politics could possibly go on long  tirades about the things they don't like" as if me not liking politics has just exempt me from all forms of ranting. As if Im being some what dishonest in saying I don't like talking about politics, because I happened to go on a rant about how much I dislike it.
> 
> ...


Well some people like talking about it some dont. Thats fines. If you dont like something don't comment or view it. No one's forcing you to comment on these threads. If you want to discuss other things view different threads or make your own. That's the whole purpose of threads. This one has politics in the title. And I never said there is anything wrong with ranting or expressing frustration with any topic. My problem is if you're going to ideologically project and attack a strawman ideology or political standpoint, then don't say you dislike ideology and politics. Simple as that. It's fine if you dont like politics but dont say that while promoting your agenda. I have my strong political opinions, an ideology (we all do). And yes I have an agenda. I dont try and run or hide from that fact tho.


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 6, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Well some people like talking about it some dont. Thats fines. If you dont like something don't comment or view it. No one's forcing you to comment on these threads. If you want to discuss other things view different threads or make your own. That's the whole purpose of threads. This one has politics in the title. And I never said there is anything wrong with ranting or expressing frustration with any topic. My problem is if you're going to ideologically project and attack a strawman ideology or political standpoint, then don't say you dislike ideology and politics. Simple as that. It's fine if you dont like politics but dont say that while promoting your agenda. I have my strong political opinions, an ideology (we all do). And yes I have an agenda. I dont try and run or hide from that fact tho.



I don't have an agenda. And I guess sugar coating it and not out right saying the group i was talking about wasn't enough to clue you in so here i go!

Nazis. I'm talking about how nazis like to sneak their way into other people's spaces and sugar coat their language to make it more appealing to people who aren't readily knowledgeable about nazi idealogy. 

You legit compared me saying that we should let minority groups portray themselves in media the way they want to be portrayed and not shit on them everytime they play a character that wasn't their ethnicity/sexuality to wanting to convert a person to dangerous nazi ideology.

Either you're completely ignorant of how those two things aren't comparable in any sense, or you just have a serious gripe with people wanting to express their opinions in lengthy posts. And don't tell me that you have no problem with it since you are the one who said "I just don't get how someone who hates politics could write long posts about how much they hate politics." 

I still don't understand what your deal is since it's pretty damn obvious to everyone else that this is a thread meant to get people's opinions. I think you just don't like my opinion on the matter, and instead of just outright saying "Gee liseran, I disagree with you on this part" you decided to give me some kind of lecture on being dishonest and having some kind of agenda behind my post. 

Maybe the one being dishonest about what they believe is you.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 7, 2019)

Here we go again.
Why did we reach nth dimension with the subject of Nazis?


----------



## Deleted member 111470 (Mar 7, 2019)

Yes it's my favorite thing to do, especially here - on a forum about anthropomorphic animals and the furry fandom, which is precisely where political discussions belong.


----------



## kekuee (Mar 7, 2019)

I think it's kinda funny that a thread _about_ political discussions almost immediately turned into a political discussion.







But anyways, this kinda perfectly demonstrates why I'm hesitant to join political discussions: they can get really heated really fast.


----------



## ManicTherapsid (Mar 7, 2019)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Here we go again.
> Why did we reach nth dimension with the subject of Nazis?



I wonder what's more powerful, Godwin's Law or Rule 34?


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

look man, i'm not even the one who started this shit, ask the guy whose got a problem with lengthy posts not me. 

I didn't want to bring up the nazis i just wanted to give my opinion on the thread, but apparently posts have some kind of fucking length requirement in order to be seen as genuine in their meaning. 

maybe my posts are long but honestly if you don't like long posts than just skip ahead, damn. And if you disagree with me you could just say "Lis, I disagree with you on that." and then we can both move on instead of having to drag the fucking nazis into it. 

this is another reason why I don't like talking about politics. If i so much as give my opinion on something, even if its as simple as whether or not I like to talk about politics, someone out there has to start some kind of bullshit about agenda's and shit, when it really ain't that deep.

I don't like talking about politics because people like to convert others to dangerous idea's and use their ignorance of certain terms and words to their advantage. I also don't like talking about politics because it's like dancing in a mine field, blind. It doesn't matter if its not even your opinion on anything actually political, someone out there is gonna try to start an argument. 

Even if its about how long your post was.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 7, 2019)

From the recent exchange on this thread, I am convinced that there are SOME people who avoids getting into politicial discussion because they don't want to be proven wrong.


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> From the recent exchange on this thread, I am convinced that there are SOME people who avoids getting into politicial discussion because they don't want to be proven wrong.



just say you disagree and move on no one cares anymore.


----------



## Lexiand (Mar 7, 2019)

In online forms? No... I've been on this site when people were talking about politics a lot but there was a lot dumpster fires everywhere so I'm just keeping my opinions to myself


----------



## Doulyboy (Mar 7, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> look man, i'm not even the one who started this shit, ask the guy whose got a problem with lengthy posts not me.
> 
> I didn't want to bring up the nazis i just wanted to give my opinion on the thread, but apparently posts have some kind of fucking length requirement in order to be seen as genuine in their meaning.
> 
> ...




I agree.

We have to stay vigilant to be aware of subdue Alt-right undertones being used as a recruiting tool to suck in unsuspecting people.


----------



## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 7, 2019)

Idk I think all this Nazi hunting hunting is like chasing ghosts. If you brand anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi you're only doing the actual alt-right a favor by de-legitimizing the word Nazi. It really should only be reserved for when confronting actual Nazis. Not to mention if you ever actually look into the alt-right and neo-nazis they really aren't shy of their views. You might even be surprised with how open and proud they are about the fact that they're Nazis. But if you chase ghosts you might just find them. If you hunt Nazis you might just find them. The question is how much are they real or perceived?


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 7, 2019)

@insertgenericnamehere1 

You're a new user here. In 2018 I exposed a network of sock-puppets account that were defending users that promoted far-right views, such as banning Islam, declaring homosexual-free zones, and questioning the 'official narrative' of the holocaust. 
That network included accounts that had been registered as long as 4 years ago, so it is deeply entrenched and it is very unlikely that I uncovered all of the accounts. 

The site's staff need to do a much better job to prevent grooming of teenage boys and young men by these users.


----------



## Doulyboy (Mar 7, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Idk I think all this Nazi hunting hunting is like chasing ghosts. If you brand anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi you're only doing the actual alt-right a favor by de-legitimizing the word Nazi. It really should only be reserved for when confronting actual Nazis. Not to mention if you ever actually look into the alt-right and neo-nazis they really aren't shy of their views. You might even be surprised with how open and proud they are about the fact that they're Nazis. But if you chase ghosts you might just find them. If you hunt Nazis you might just find them. The question is how much are they real or perceived?




See that right there is the very thing someone with Alt-right views would use to discreetly recruit and promote their toxic views.

Shame.


----------



## CrookedCroc (Mar 7, 2019)

If this is how you guys discuss politics I guess you won't be invited to my tea party this Sunday


----------



## Infrarednexus (Mar 7, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> If this is how you guys discuss politics I guess you won't be invited to my tea party this Sunday
> View attachment 56449


I'm not involved in this debate, so how come you never invited me?


Is it my bad breath?


----------



## CrookedCroc (Mar 7, 2019)

Infrarednexus said:


> I'm not involved in this debate, so how come you never invited me?
> 
> 
> Is it my bad breath?


Wut? I invited you, did you check your spam folder? 
We can't have our tea party without our robo boi 
Also, we are gonna need your pannini grill


----------



## Infrarednexus (Mar 7, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> Wut? I invited you, did you check your spam folder?
> We can't have our tea party without our robo boi
> Also, we are gonna need your pannini grill


I'm on it. This tea party will be legendary.


----------



## Yakamaru (Mar 7, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> If this is how you guys discuss politics I guess you won't be invited to my tea party this Sunday
> View attachment 56449


You never invited me either. D:


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

CrookedCroc said:


> If this is how you guys discuss politics I guess you won't be invited to my tea party this Sunday
> View attachment 56449



i dont have a pink dress or a tiara so i couldn't come anyway.


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Idk I think all this Nazi hunting hunting is like chasing ghosts. If you brand anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi you're only doing the actual alt-right a favor by de-legitimizing the word Nazi. It really should only be reserved for when confronting actual Nazis. Not to mention if you ever actually look into the alt-right and neo-nazis they really aren't shy of their views. You might even be surprised with how open and proud they are about the fact that they're Nazis. But if you chase ghosts you might just find them. If you hunt Nazis you might just find them. The question is how much are they real or perceived?



also i wasn't the one slyly suggesting other users were nazis. That was you my dude.


----------



## CrookedCroc (Mar 7, 2019)

Yakamaru said:


> You never invited me either. D:



Sorry! I've been very busy ironing my dress and getting an appointment to gather my hair done, your invite should arrive soon


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 7, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> @insertgenericnamehere1
> 
> You're a new user here. In 2018 I exposed a network of sock-puppets account that were defending users that promoted far-right views, such as banning Islam, declaring homosexual-free zones, and questioning the 'official narrative' of the holocaust.
> That network included accounts that had been registered as long as 4 years ago, so it is deeply entrenched and it is very unlikely that I uncovered all of the accounts.
> ...


And when did this happen exactly?


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> And when did this happen exactly?



He literally says it happened in 2018 in the first sentence.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 7, 2019)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> And when did this happen exactly?



The original account was banned on the 11th of July 2018, after promoting holocaust denial.
An account registered in 2014 that had been inactive for 2 years then re-activated, claimed they were an impartial third party, and began defending the original account.
I exposed this account as an alt and it was banned on the 25th of September 2018.
A third account, that had been created in July 2018 but had not previously been used, was then activated, and banned on the 29th of September 2018, when they confessed to being an alt of the original account after losing their cool in a thread.

You left your own comment on that same thread actually, the day after. So you should remember this.

The original account had been making back-up alts since 2014, so they probably still have accounts on this forum.
Before they were banned they were well-connected on the forums and the various off-shoot discords.


Hopefully this provides some context for why I only ever discuss politics on this forum in order to push back against the sorts of attitudes that accounts like that have been promoting. I am especially conscious that users like this groom teenagers on discord. :\


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## Cyroo (Mar 7, 2019)

If you support either the police, government, or status quo, you're a class traitor and bootlicker. Just reminding folks.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 7, 2019)

Cyroo said:


> bootlicker.


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

Cyroo said:


> If you support either the police, government, or status quo, you're a class traitor and bootlicker. Just reminding folks.



welp thats it, folks. You've seen it all everyone go home.


----------



## Liseran Thistle (Mar 7, 2019)

I'm done with this shit, imma go watch anime now because i can already see this ain't gonna end well for anyone. 

Catch me on kissanime streaming Hunter X Hunter, peace.


----------



## Cyroo (Mar 7, 2019)

Liseran Thistle said:


> welp thats it, folks. You've seen it all everyone go home.



Cyroo is a real one.


----------



## Doulyboy (Mar 7, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> The original account was banned on the 11th of July 2018, after promoting holocaust denial.
> An account registered in 2014 that had been inactive for 2 years then re-activated, claimed they were an impartial third party, and began defending the original account.
> I exposed this account as an alt and it was banned on the 25th of September 2018.
> A third account, that had been created in July 2018 but had not previously been used, was then activated, and banned on the 29th of September 2018, when they confessed to being an alt of the original account after losing their cool in a thread.
> ...




Wow!
;_;


----------



## Dragoneer (Mar 8, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> Idk I think all this Nazi hunting hunting is like chasing ghosts.


Nazis _should_ be limited to being ghosts at this point, their toxic ideals and ideologies lost to the sands of time... but sadly, they're not. Real people are out there pushing their agenda, and there's a very good reason we had to ban a large number of accounts. These are not "very fine people".


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## Deleted member 82554 (Mar 8, 2019)

No, but I do like to make fun of people that take politics far too seriously.


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## Dragoneer (Mar 8, 2019)

Mr. Fox said:


> No, but I do like to make fun of people that take politics far too seriously.


I take it seriously because politics can impact the site and the community as a whole. Politics can attract trolls, can affect site policy, can dictate who can even access the site in some countries, can have fines and repercussions. Things like Article 13 and the adult site porn ban in the UK are all things that affect people. Knowing what's going on in politics, who's crafting good policy... it's all important. People _should_ be paying attention to who's in office, who's voting on what, and how things impact them. If they did we wouldn't have people running around claiming how great the "tax cuts" are when they in fact raise taxes on people long term.

Elections can have consequences, and it's important to know what they may be.


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## Deleted member 82554 (Mar 8, 2019)

I said far too seriously, not seriously 'neer. Politics is a serious matter but should also be discussed in a civil manner. It's when people become uncivil or start coming up with unrealistic viewpoints is when others start making fun of you for it.


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## ConorHyena (Mar 8, 2019)

I'm just going to quote myself on this "Manners matter."


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## Aika the manokit (Mar 8, 2019)

Not one bit because I don't vote and I reserve that right


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## Captain TrashPanda (Mar 8, 2019)




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## insertgenericnamehere1 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dragoneer said:


> Nazis _should_ be limited to being ghosts at this point, their toxic ideals and ideologies lost to the sands of time... but sadly, they're not. Real people are out there pushing their agenda, and there's a very good reason we had to ban a large number of accounts. These are not "very fine people".


As I said everyone has an agenda, including myself (that's psychology 101). This is how humans interact, we all try and persuade each other. It just is better to be open about it than to pretend it doesn't exist. That's why I say go look for Nazis. You'll find them pretty quickly. They're extremely open about their ideology. It's actually pretty funny to listen to them if you get laughs out of listening to bat-shit crazy people talk.

There's a very nice Balkan expression about crazy people not being alone in their head. Most of these guys have more than a few friends living in their brains XD

Ever listen to Alex Jones for laughs. It's fucking great XD


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 9, 2019)

God this thread is still here. 

But I don't like discussing politics at a...


----------



## Aznig (Mar 9, 2019)

This thread is a perfect example of why I don’t like discussing politics on furry websites.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 9, 2019)

insertgenericnamehere1 said:


> As I said everyone has an agenda, including myself (that's psychology 101). This is how humans interact, we all try and persuade each other. It just is better to be open about it than to pretend it doesn't exist. That's why I say go look for Nazis. You'll find them pretty quickly. They're extremely open about their ideology. It's actually pretty funny to listen to them if you get laughs out of listening to bat-shit crazy people talk.
> 
> There's a very nice Balkan expression about crazy people not being alone in their head. Most of these guys have more than a few friends living in their brains XD
> 
> Ever listen to Alex Jones for laughs. It's fucking great XD




So I'd recommend that people don't deliberately seek out open neo-nazis, for reasons that I hope are obvious.

We should also all be aware that most people who support fascism do not openly brand themselves as fascist, because they are aware that this alienates other people. They understand that the only way they will persuade people to believe that their political views are normal- and eventually agree with them- is if they rebrand them to divorce them from the toxic label of 'fascism'.

That's why rebrands of fascist beliefs, dressed to look like libertarianism or traditional conservatism, are a dime a dozen. Consider recent examples like the 'Identitarian' movement and the 'Alt-right', both of which were keenly marketed as being energetic departures from conservatism that had nothing to do with Fascism, but which ultimately turned out just to be attempts at rebranding the far right as merely 'alternative' rather than extreme.
Identitarian movement - Wikipedia
Alt-right - Wikipedia

It's also why supporters of fascism have cryptographic language that they can use to recognise and network with one another, without alerting normal people:
Triple parentheses - Wikipedia
Fourteen Words - Wikipedia
88 (number) - Wikipedia


----------



## tinybuggy (Mar 9, 2019)

I don't like to but it's unavoidable when some people's political beliefs boil down to ''I shouldn't exist" and "People like you should be killed." 

Can't really have a nice and pleasant existence in fandom spaces with those people involcin.


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## Throwaway (Mar 9, 2019)

I'll talk about politics.

I'll argue about politics.

I'll argue about anything.

Want a discussion of the structural class-based oppression present in the fandom?

I can do that.

Want an analysis of deviance, sexuality, identity and LGBTQQIAA2S+ representation in the fandom?

I can do that.


----------



## Attaman (Mar 10, 2019)

While a bit late, I will also note since the subject came up: The reason these bans happened is that the Mainsite banned people from posting Nazi / Neo-Nazi iconography or rhetoric in various contexts... and people _flooded _onto the forums and - frequently - managed to go all of 2-3 posts before shoving their feet in their mouth. It wasn’t a sudden forum witch-hunt or anything of the sort, just quite literally the Cub Porn Ban MkII where staff made a change that generally should have been non-controversial (No porn of fictional minors so the site doesn’t go under from advertisers bailing; No Nazi iconography / rhetoric in a place populated disproportionately by demographics quite literally subject to genocide under the Nazis) with people reacting... poorly.

And the forums really were that bad in a summer / fall 2018. We had, off the top of my head, at least three threads asking about why Nazi iconography won’t be allowed, two going on about refugees and travel bans (a third if you include the refugee caravan), another on whether it was alright to refer to trans persons as traps, discussions about how chat rooms full of literal Nazi iconography and faux-genetics science was just “Joking ironically”, people calling the attempted mass-mail bombing and synagogue shooting false-flags done by (((them)))... This doesn’t even get into the people literally referring to refugees or Muslims as literal vermin, for that matter!

2019 has, so far, been relatively tame on the forum politics front. In part because of aforementioned purge.


----------



## Keefur (Mar 10, 2019)

I don't like talking about politics with other Furries because I cherish my Furry friends and some furs take politics waaaaay to seriously and cannot agree to disagree on things sometimes.


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## catscom (Mar 11, 2019)

I enjoy discussing politics as long as the other individual or individuals can discuss things maturely and disagreements be settled as disagreements.  This is preferably done in private conversation though.  Very rarely does something good come of airing your political views to a public sphere like a forum, sufficiently large chat, or other message board.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 11, 2019)

One goddamn day after being released from a month long ban before I ended up dug in in some political thread. I'm doing much better now on my part behavior wise.


----------



## Sarachaga (Mar 11, 2019)

I do enjoy talking about politics but I'd rather keep it between friends. I'm not that great at debate and tend to get annoyed quickly so I'd rather avoid politics forum threads.


----------



## foussiremix (Mar 11, 2019)

I talk about politics but only with friends or relatives.

I mean, I could talk with people on the web about it but *I mean I could but why would I want to.*
Talking with people about politics on the web always ends up in conflicts instead of reserved, understanding conversation.

Like I get that opinions can be very different from each other but that doesn't mean you can like insult the other person.


----------



## Water Draco (Mar 11, 2019)

In real life with friends and family.

Generally avoid getting too deeply in to anything online as it is too easy for others to take up the wrong meaning.


----------



## Bink (Mar 11, 2019)

I understand how open discussion can be a good thing and understand why people like to engage in such... that said...


----------



## WolfyAmbassador (Mar 11, 2019)

Honestly, talking about politics on here is a waste of time, and it seems like everyone's got their minds set anyways.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 12, 2019)

Yes, but it tends to really irritate me, especially when surrounded by holier-than-thou leftists


----------



## Garfieldthefatkittey (Mar 12, 2019)

Hell no


----------



## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 12, 2019)

I like to talk politics but maybe not within the fandom. Our fandom is already hated by many and it would be a shame if we let politics divide us. I've seen that lots of furies on tumblr try to make our fandom to something political. Even tho I have strong opinions I keep my character far away from political matters, because politics is something more suitable for my homan form. I'm glad people in general don't take furies X politics too seriously. I mean I could of course talk politics with furies in private chat but not on the discussion boards because that usually end up with a rather toxic atmosphere. lots good points here, not sure if I only said things that have already been mentioned.


----------



## Cyroo (Mar 12, 2019)

Aznig said:


> This thread is a perfect example of why I don’t like discussing politics on furry websites.



It's the same across every platform, sweetie. The internet is infested with uneducated people.


----------



## Aznig (Mar 12, 2019)

Cyroo said:


> It's the same across every platform, sweetie. The internet is infested with uneducated people.



But there’s a reason we’re in this fandom - cartoon animals and escapism. Not here for politics.


----------



## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 12, 2019)

Throwaway said:


> I'll talk about politics.
> 
> I'll argue about politics.
> 
> ...


I've heard of LGBT but... LGBTQQIAA2S what the heck?


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 12, 2019)

Freia the arctic fox said:


> I've heard of LGBT but... LGBTQQIAA2S what the heck?



(I think they're joking).


----------



## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 12, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> (I think they're joking).


you never know TBH


----------



## Throwaway (Mar 12, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> (I think they're joking).


I'm not joking


Freia the arctic fox said:


> you never know TBH



Lesbian
Gay
Bi
Trans
Queer
Questioning
Intersex
Ace/Aro
Agender
Two Spirit

I'm only one of these, but I can try to tell you about the others if you'd like.


----------



## KimberVaile (Mar 12, 2019)

Aznig said:


> But there’s a reason we’re in this fandom - cartoon animals and escapism. Not here for politics.


I am, to a large extent for escapism and other fantastical things, but I still enjoy discussing politics. The two do not always have to be inherently opposed. I mean, at the end of the day, people are seeking an escape from different things.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 12, 2019)

Personally_ I_ escaped from jail.


----------



## Simo (Mar 12, 2019)

What strikes me as odd about politics on a furry site is that there seems to be a contingency of 'furries' who _only_ talk about politics, on a furry site, and never post about anything else related to the fandom at all. They often appear as if summoned, and vanish just as quickly. Some reappear at the emergence of the next over-heated, dramatic thread.

I'd sooner shove splinters of bamboo under my fingernails, than start a 'serious' political discussion on this site: it lacks the moderation to guide such discussions before they veer out of control, and, as history has demonstrated, time and again, have almost always devolved into shouting matches.


----------



## Limedragon27 (Mar 12, 2019)

I tend to try to avoid politics as much as I can, especially around this community, people talking about politics in this community just brings out too much toxicity and stupidity within people here, and ruins it for everyone else. The whole concept of anthropomorphic characters in fantasy worlds is suppose to provide an nice escape, to me anyway.

When I do get in the mood for those kinds of subjects, I usually keep it to myself or talk about it with family, mainly my siblings.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 12, 2019)

I feel this particular forum has problems with political questions compared to the rest of the furry fandom.

Many of the discussions which are seemingly open for debate on this website are considered settled matters in many other furry spaces.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 13, 2019)

Aznig said:


> But there’s a reason we’re in this fandom - cartoon animals and escapism. Not here for politics.


I kinda disagree, I like good world-building... which includes politics. It can even be fun.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 13, 2019)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I kinda disagree, I like good world-building... which includes politics. It can even be fun.


I shouldn't be allowed to worldbuild, because I'm a fan of the grimdark, and have the history knowledge to make it brutally realistic.


----------



## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 13, 2019)

Simo said:


> What strikes me as odd about politics on a furry site is that there seems to be a contingency of 'furries' who _only_ talk about politics, on a furry site, and never post about anything else related to the fandom at all. They often appear as if summoned, and vanish just as quickly. Some reappear at the emergence of the next over-heated, dramatic thread.
> 
> I'd sooner shove splinters of bamboo under my fingernails, than start a 'serious' political discussion on this site: it lacks the moderation to guide such discussions before they veer out of control, and, as history has demonstrated, time and again, have almost always devolved into shouting matches.


Politics definitely do not belong in here. It only makes the environment extremely toxic. And as you say it feels like lots of people only talk politics here because they know they fill the air with hate.


----------



## Frank Gulotta (Mar 13, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I shouldn't be allowed to worldbuild, because I'm a fan of the grimdark, and have the history knowledge to make it brutally realistic.


Why not? it's always interesting. Hell, I got epidemics, natural catastrophies and genocide as well. History is fascinating. Why water it down?


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 13, 2019)

Freia the arctic fox said:


> Politics definitely do not belong in here. It only makes the environment extremely toxic. And as you say it feels like lots of people only talk politics here because they know they fill the air with hate.


I'm trying to create less political threads, unless its a major news story. Nobody wants to read Brexit thread no. 576


----------



## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 13, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> I'm trying to create less political threads, unless its a major news story. Nobody wants to read Brexit thread no. 576


I saw your post about ISIS, that was a news that for most of the time would not lead to conflict. Of course some people manage to find a way to argue anyways but they just want trouble. There are many Americans on the forum and Americans tend to take politics much more personal than the rest of the world. But I have to admit, it's fun when Americans make drama about politics.


----------



## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 13, 2019)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Why not? it's always interesting. Hell, I got epidemics, natural catastrophies and genocide as well. History is fascinating. Why water it down?


Because it resulted in someone rage quitting after causing a demonic gnoll incursion by purposefully setting of an active volcano to break a besieged town, and someone had a miscarriage because they stowed away on a boat in their own filth while pregnant, and failed a lot of Con saves. This was after their baby-daddy, a changeling (in the d&d sense), kidnapped them to get the mother of their child out of a warzone. There they had lived in essentially the Vatican, discovering it had been infiltrated thoroughly by Vampires. This could have been avoided if they didn't have "seduce everything in sight" syndrome. 

The collateral death toll of the party was somewhere over a thousand by the time everyone rage quit. Nobody was having fun, and it turns out RPing being in a George RR Martinesque misadventure of the partie's own making was not conducive to people's mental health.


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## Frank Gulotta (Mar 13, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Because it resulted in someone rage quitting after causing a demonic gnoll incursion by purposefully setting of an active volcano to break a besieged town, and someone had a miscarriage because they stowed away on a boat in their own filth while pregnant, and failed a lot of Con saves. This was after their baby-daddy, a changeling (in the d&d sense), kidnapped them to get the mother of their child out of a warzone. There they had lived in essentially the Vatican, discovering it had been infiltrated thoroughly by Vampires. This could have been avoided if they didn't have "seduce everything in sight" syndrome.
> 
> The collateral death toll of the party was somewhere over a thousand by the time everyone rage quit. Nobody was having fun, and it turns out RPing being in a George RR Martinesque misadventure of the partie's own making was not conducive to people's mental health.


 Oh okay. Well that's hilarious. But the mistake was maybe to do all this in a game XD I was talking more along the line of writing a fictional world.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 13, 2019)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Oh okay. Well that's hilarious. But the mistake was maybe to do all this in a game XD I was talking more along the line of writing a fictional world.


Part of the problem is the world. If you have dark elements in the world, the story and players will trend towards darker themes. But we are somewhat off topic.


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## Frank Gulotta (Mar 13, 2019)

Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Part of the problem is the world. If you have dark elements in the world, the story and players will trend towards darker themes. But we are somewhat off topic.


And people still rage-quit? well that's on them, then, I would say


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## modfox (Mar 13, 2019)

the furry fandom is no place for politics.. unfortunately some people dont relise that and still push there views on people


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## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 13, 2019)

Throwaway said:


> I'm not joking
> 
> 
> Lesbian
> ...


Is it really necessary with all those letters?


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Mar 13, 2019)

...so it turns out there was one other quirk I missed about me and politics online.  I've found that if I encounter someone who just lived through a political crisis, I feel compelled to find out what went wrong under the pretense of learning from their mistakes.  I've generally had bad luck with getting enough info from the news... and I usually wind up encountering these survivors when they're lashing out at entitled idiots, which sets me off in a patronizing "they're fighting this alone, I want to support them" kind of way.



Throwaway said:


> Lesbian
> Gay
> Bi
> Trans
> ...



.....can I just go with LGBTQ+ when referring to this elsewhere or would it be too insulting to leave the rest out?  I feel like the full acronym would overwhelm people.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Mar 13, 2019)

Freia the arctic fox said:


> I saw your post about ISIS, that was a news that for most of the time would not lead to conflict. Of course some people manage to find a way to argue anyways but they just want trouble. There are many Americans on the forum and Americans tend to take politics much more personal than the rest of the world. But I have to admit, it's fun when Americans make drama about politics.


Good point I am thinking of the Edward Snowden case particularly this opening line from NBC Nightly News:
"Edward Snowden the worlds most wanted criminal."
By all means Edward Snowden did betray and committed treason to the United States by leaving the country after whistle blowing and I would not be surprised if he did help Russia meddle in our elections. However that is not my only main problems with this case it is also how the quote is phrased. The quote is basically phrased that the United States of America is the entire world and no other country matters. The truth is a lot foreign countries were indifferent to overjoyed when Edward Snowden blow the whistle on the NSA blatant monitoring on everything the agency consider a threat to The United States. Indeed this mentality of the United States has whenever something bad happens to itself makes it so it is not its own problem and makes it the worlds problem. Mind you I love my home country of the United States like my fellow American citizens I just wish our countries media did not blow everything out proportion to make the rest of the worlds problem.


Misha Bordiga Zahradník said:


> Because it resulted in someone rage quitting after causing a demonic gnoll incursion by purposefully setting of an active volcano to break a besieged town, and someone had a miscarriage because they stowed away on a boat in their own filth while pregnant, and failed a lot of Con saves. This was after their baby-daddy, a changeling (in the d&d sense), kidnapped them to get the mother of their child out of a warzone. There they had lived in essentially the Vatican, discovering it had been infiltrated thoroughly by Vampires. This could have been avoided if they didn't have "seduce everything in sight" syndrome.
> 
> The collateral death toll of the party was somewhere over a thousand by the time everyone rage quit. Nobody was having fun, and it turns out RPing being in a George RR Martinesque misadventure of the partie's own making was not conducive to people's mental health.


*What?....* (That is one trippy tabletop campaign.....)


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## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 13, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> ...so it turns out there was one other quirk I missed about me and politics online.  I've found that if I encounter someone who just lived through a political crisis, I feel compelled to find out what went wrong under the pretense of learning from their mistakes.  I've generally had bad luck with getting enough info from the news... and I usually wind up encountering these survivors when they're lashing out at entitled idiots, which sets me off in a patronizing "they're fighting this alone, I want to support them" kind of way.
> 
> 
> 
> .....can I just go with LGBTQ+ when referring to this elsewhere or would it be too insulting to leave the rest out?  I feel like the full acronym would overwhelm people.


Og you dont want to confuse people I believe it's for the best to say LGBTQ or just LGBT. People should not be so strict about what you call it, they should be happy that people care and support their rights.


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## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 13, 2019)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> Good point I am thinking of the Edward Snowden case particularly this opening line from NBC Nightly News:
> "Edward Snowden the worlds most wanted criminal."
> By all means Edward Snowden did betray and committed treason to the United States by leaving the country after whistle blowing and I would not be surprised if he did help Russia meddle in our elections. However that is not my only main problems with this case it is also how the quote is phrased. The quote is basically phrased that the United States of America is the entire world and no other country matters. The truth is a lot foreign countries were indifferent to overjoyed when Edward Snowden blow the whistle on the NSA blatant monitoring on everything the agency consider a threat to The United States. Indeed this mentality of the United States has whenever something bad happens to itself makes it so it is not its own problem and makes it the worlds problem. Mind you I love my home country of the United States like my fellow American citizens I just wish our countries media did not blow everything out proportion to make the rest of the worlds problem.
> 
> *What?....* (That is one trippy tabletop campaign.....)


The US would fall if for example Germany or China were left in ruins. If Germany were to fall I believe pretty much all of Europe would fall with them, there are so much important industry in Germany, many people seem to forget that especially Americans.


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 13, 2019)

LGBTQIA or LGBT+ are how things are usually done in the US.


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## luffy (Mar 13, 2019)

In general, I don't mind politics.

But as a mod..


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## Misha Bordiga Zahradník (Mar 13, 2019)

luffy said:


> In general, I don't mind politics.
> 
> But as a mod..


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## pandasayori (Mar 13, 2019)

Depends on where the conversation is being held and who I’m talking to. Here political talk turns into a forum fire real quick.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 13, 2019)

It's weird seeing a lot of people who I know have strong opinions and definitely _do_ want to convince other people of their point of view, complaining that other furries are trying to force their views on them. S:


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## ZeroVoidTime (Mar 13, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> It's weird seeing a lot of people who I know have strong opinions and definitely _do_ want to convince other people of their point of view, complaining that other furries are trying to force their views on them. S:


I think people ultimately want to feel they are doing the right thing and react poorly when they are told otherwise. I also think these individuals want to feel that their morals are absolute, infallible, and do not need to change behavior patterns as they feel they have the right answer. Indeed most humans want their solution to be the fix all but that is an unrealistic expectations as every decision has consequences and best way to show strength in character is the willingness to deal with those consequences of action and solution.


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## Throwaway (Mar 13, 2019)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> ...so it turns out there was one other quirk I missed about me and politics online.  I've found that if I encounter someone who just lived through a political crisis, I feel compelled to find out what went wrong under the pretense of learning from their mistakes.  I've generally had bad luck with getting enough info from the news... and I usually wind up encountering these survivors when they're lashing out at entitled idiots, which sets me off in a patronizing "they're fighting this alone, I want to support them" kind of way.
> 
> 
> 
> .....can I just go with LGBTQ+ when referring to this elsewhere or would it be too insulting to leave the rest out?  I feel like the full acronym would overwhelm people.



It is dependent on the situation. Adding the+ at the end does help, though.


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## Deathless (Mar 13, 2019)

I talk a lot of politics with my friends mostly for satire but backing up my actual opinions with legit facts and evidence to back up my opinions. Usually, both political and religious debates pop up randomly in my group of friends and we all share the same opinions (mostly political) for the most part. I actually really like debating about political issues, especially since I am almost entirely on the conservative side, a blatant liberal (not a joke/insult) has been coming to our art class and pushing left-wing propaganda on us. I blatantly disagree with what she's teaching, but I still respect her and she respects me.
Honestly, I don't feel as if I have the need to change people's political opinions and insult them because of their beliefs or opinions, frankly, I prefer to have different opinions around me, it sparks a good conversation when needed. I think that people insulting and bullying others because they disagree with their views makes them a bad person and I don't like to be around those people.
I feel as if I can make better arguments verbally and face-to-face then online. Not sure why, it's just me, which is why I don't like to participate in online political debates all too much...


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## Limedragon27 (Mar 13, 2019)

Frank Gulotta said:


> I kinda disagree, I like good world-building... which includes politics. It can even be fun.



I agree, worldbuilding with anthros with nations, history, culture, politics, conflicts, and all that good jazz is better than just the whole "Oh just me as a furry" thing.


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## Peach's (Mar 13, 2019)

Technically yes, though, I am a radical, so beltway conversations quickly grinds on me.


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## Freia the arctic fox (Mar 13, 2019)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> Good point I am thinking of the Edward Snowden case particularly this opening line from NBC Nightly News:
> "Edward Snowden the worlds most wanted criminal."
> By all means Edward Snowden did betray and committed treason to the United States by leaving the country after whistle blowing and I would not be surprised if he did help Russia meddle in our elections. However that is not my only main problems with this case it is also how the quote is phrased. The quote is basically phrased that the United States of America is the entire world and no other country matters. The truth is a lot foreign countries were indifferent to overjoyed when Edward Snowden blow the whistle on the NSA blatant monitoring on everything the agency consider a threat to The United States. Indeed this mentality of the United States has whenever something bad happens to itself makes it so it is not its own problem and makes it the worlds problem. Mind you I love my home country of the United States like my fellow American citizens I just wish our countries media did not blow everything out proportion to make the rest of the worlds problem.
> 
> *What?....* (That is one trippy tabletop campaign.....)


Usually when I talk politics I'm more intresinte to here what the opposite side thinks. Of course it can be a domination game at times with argument after arguments. I do know that there are no rights and wrongs and that a balance between left and right is needed. However it feels awfully good to win an argument. It's like a little power trip.


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## Neiot (Mar 14, 2019)

No.


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## Abilify (Mar 15, 2019)

Yes.


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## Frank Gulotta (Mar 15, 2019)

Limedragon27 said:


> I agree, worldbuilding with anthros with nations, history, culture, politics, conflicts, and all that good jazz is better than just the whole "Oh just me as a furry" thing.


We share this opinion, brotha!


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