# How to properly care for a floppy disk.



## deepthroat (Nov 1, 2010)

Floppy disks are an amazing thing, and a relic of the past. As they are no longer being manufactured, it is important that the remaining ones be handled carefully so that they don't end up becoming so rare they become expensive, at least for now.

Here are general hints when handling a floppy disk:

1) Do not play with its slider door.
This is for 3-1/2 floppies which have a metalic/plastic sliding door to prevent damage to the magnetic-coated plastic disc rotating within. the sliding doors can be broken easily and a floppy will last less longer without its sliding door protecting its disc.

2) Do not touch the magnetic disc.
This applies for both 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 floppies as well. if the magnetic disc within the floppies are messed with, you'll end up ruining it.

3) Do not ever delete files on a floppy.
The specifics are unclear but outright deleting files on floppies, regardless of its type or size, will damage it beyond repair. if you need to make space on a floppy, *move* its content to a hard disk (or usb pen drive, or another floppy), or *format* it if you don't need its content. your floppy disk will last much longer this way. A full format will roughly take a minute and a half, but if you are on a rush, a quick-format will take only mere seconds, but will be less efficient than a full format. Keep this in mind.

4) When a floppy is dead, it's dead.
Here's a few things you can do with dead floppies.


----------



## Lapdog (Nov 1, 2010)

Shouldn't this be in Bits&Bytes?

But your right, Floppy's were the shit. I had about 7 floppy's laying about on my desk in-case I needed them.

EDIT: Just noticed your name. Wow.


----------



## Mayonnaise (Nov 1, 2010)

I haven't touched one of those in years now.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Nov 1, 2010)

Deepthroath, can you confirm to me you're not just another spambot? You have 24 hours.


----------



## Miffeh (Nov 1, 2010)

deepthroat said:


> Floppy disks are an amazing thing, and a relic of the past. As they are no longer being manufactured, it is important that the remaining ones be handled carefully so that they don't end up becoming so rare they become expensive, at least for now.
> 3) Do not ever delete files on a floppy.
> The specifics are unclear but outright deleting files on floppies, regardless of its type or size, will damage it beyond repair. if you need to make space on a floppy, *move* its content to a hard disk (or usb pen drive, or another floppy), or *format* it if you don't need its content. your floppy disk will last much longer this way. A full format will roughly take a minute and a half, but if you are on a rush, a quick-format will take only mere seconds, but will be less efficient than a full format. Keep this in mind.



I believe the reason is because it stores the data on a circular magnetic disc. 
The disc spins to retrieves the data (kind of like a record on a phonograph).
If we are deleting random data from floppy discs; gaps occur and the time to read the data takes significantly more.
This is what a defrag on a computer hard drive corrects when we install/remove software.  It squeezes all the data into the inner rings of your hard drive for quicker access.

Correct me if im way off.


----------



## Lapdog (Nov 1, 2010)

Miffeh said:


> I believe the reason is because it stores the data on a circular magnetic disc.
> The disc spins to retrieves the data (kind of like a record on a phonograph).
> If we are deleting random data from floppy discs; gaps occur and the time to read the data takes significantly more.
> This is what a defrag on a computer hard drive corrects when we install/remove software.  It squeezes all the data into the inner rings of your hard drive for quicker access.
> ...


 
Nope, spot on.


----------



## deepthroat (Nov 1, 2010)

miffeh said:
			
		

> I believe the reason is because it stores the data on a circular magnetic disc.
> The disc spins to retrieves the data (kind of like a record on a phonograph).
> If we are deleting random data from floppy discs; gaps occur and the time to read the data takes significantly more.
> This is what a defrag on a computer hard drive corrects when we  install/remove software.  It squeezes all the data into the inner rings  of your hard drive for quicker access.


The same applies for hard disks.

What happens with floppy disks is that read/write errors will occur if files are deleted from a floppy.


----------



## deepthroat (Nov 1, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> Deepthroath, can you confirm to me you're not just another spambot? You have 24 hours.


 If I was a spambot, I would be linking to porn websites and/or penis enlargement stuff. I am doing neither.


----------



## Adelio Altomar (Nov 1, 2010)

Whoa... People still use floppies? =o


----------



## deepthroat (Nov 1, 2010)

Adelio Altomar said:


> Whoa... People still use floppies? =o


 I own a laptop dating from 1999, with a broken usb plug. floppies are a great way to get data from my main computer to it without having to resort to blank dvds. (I fit a dvd/cd drive in the laptop) The laptop is used as an old gaming computer. it beats the crap out of using dosbox.


----------



## Mayonnaise (Nov 1, 2010)

Adelio Altomar said:


> Whoa... People still use floppies? =o


Some of my lectures NEED our assignments in floppies.


----------



## CerbrusNL (Nov 1, 2010)

deepthroat said:


> If I was a spambot, I would be linking to porn websites and/or penis enlargement stuff. I am doing neither.


 


deepthroat said:


> Do I look like I am linking to websites selling cheap viagra and penis enlargement pumps, smartass?


 
More often than not, spambots advertise things other than viagra and penis enlargement stuff, on here. Being a forum moderator, I had every right to ask you that question.
I was going to apologise after the PM you sent me, but after a post like that, forget about it.
Not to mention it ain't nessecary to quote me twice, saying the same.


----------



## Whosat (Nov 1, 2010)

Love the pictures in your link.

I also heard that storing disks vertically is better for them, but I don't remember where from.


----------



## Cam (Nov 1, 2010)

I like using floppies as ninja squares :3


----------



## Riley (Nov 1, 2010)

The last time I owned a computer with a floppy drive was...1998?  For anything that will fit on a floppy (text documents?) just email them to yourself.


----------



## Stargazer Bleu (Nov 1, 2010)

I still have my old pc that has both disc drives.
Also has a cd drive.(not writable tho).

I even have some of the DSDD tho most are DSHD ones I have.

I remember a friend used a 5 1/4 floppy to really mess up a friends drive by making it cause a quick flash/flare up.
Very easy to do and effective.


----------



## Smelge (Nov 1, 2010)

The best way to format a floppy, is with lots and lots of magnets.


----------



## Shred Uhh Sore Us (Nov 1, 2010)

Lapdog said:


> EDIT: Just noticed your name. Wow.



The name and his avatar are related.


----------



## Lapdog (Nov 1, 2010)

Shred Uhh Sore Us said:


> The name and his avatar are related.


 
They are- *Double takes* Oh.


----------



## Conker (Nov 1, 2010)

deepthroat said:


> If I was a spambot, I would be linking to porn websites and/or penis enlargement stuff. I am doing neither.


 You seem to be about as annoying/stupid as a spambot though.


----------



## Shiroka (Nov 1, 2010)

Mostly good advices, but...



deepthroat said:


> 3) Do not ever delete files on a floppy.


 
...that one might be a little far fetched, especially considering the principal advantage of diskettes over CDs is the ability to delete files. It's true that frequent rewriting will generate more IO errors in the long run and eventually wear out the magnetic disk, but unless you delete and rewrite files on the same diskette everyday, that shouldn't really be an issue.

The real problem is that diskettes are quite fragile and must be taken care of more than the average user will. Just be careful not to leave it near a source of heat or in the cold, in wetness or in an environment with a strong magnetic activity.


----------



## Shireton (Nov 4, 2010)

Adelio Altomar said:


> Whoa... People still use floppies? =o


 How'm I supposed to play a lot of my older games without them?


----------



## ArielMT (Nov 4, 2010)

deepthroat said:


> 3) Do not ever delete files on a floppy.
> The specifics are unclear but outright deleting files on floppies, regardless of its type or size, will damage it beyond repair. if you need to make space on a floppy, *move* its content to a hard disk (or usb pen drive, or another floppy), or *format* it if you don't need its content. your floppy disk will last much longer this way. A full format will roughly take a minute and a half, but if you are on a rush, a quick-format will take only mere seconds, but will be less efficient than a full format. Keep this in mind.


 


deepthroat said:


> What happens with floppy disks is that read/write errors will occur if files are deleted from a floppy.



What is your source(es) for this logic?

I have been using, handling, and storing floppy disks since 1986, using disks and drives as old as 1979 in some cases, and I have never seen write-enabled floppies fail at a rate different from write-protected floppies.  I have rarely formatted floppies more than once each, and I have always deleted files and reused the space.  If what you claim is true, then why haven't I lost the oldest and most frequently deleted/rewritten of my floppies to read/write errors more often than I've lost read-only (and even copy protected) floppies?

Also, both full and quick formats are file deletions.  If you format a disk, you are writing to the entire surface of the disk, on file saves in the case of a quick format, and right then and there in the case of a full format.  How is this different in the context of causing or preventing R/W errors than simply deleting files?

By the way, the phonograph analogy is slightly flawed.  Floppy disk heads ride on the actual magnetic mylar disc, but hard disk heads ride on a cushion of air above the disc's surface.


----------



## Chronidu (Nov 6, 2010)

I may not have all my floppies but I still have my zip drive, and it still looks fuckawesome as it did 15 years ago


----------



## Lobar (Nov 6, 2010)

deepthroat said:


> If I was a spambot, I would be linking to porn websites and/or penis enlargement stuff. I am doing neither.


 
Don't mind Cerbrus, he's an idiot and we all hate him.  I'd hate to see a new effortposter feel chased out.


----------



## Vo (Nov 6, 2010)

By following the instructions below, you should have error-free, long-lasting floppy disks. 
Never leave diskettes in the disk drive, as data can leak out of the disk and corrode the inner mechanics of the drive. Diskettes should be rolled up and stored in pencil holders.

Diskettes should be cleaned and waxed once a week. Microscopic metal particles can be removed by waving a powerful magnet over the surface of the disk. Any stubborn metallic shavings can be removed with scouring powder and soap. When waxing the diskettes, make sure the surface is even. This will allow the diskette to spin faster, resulting in better access time.

Do not fold diskettes unless they do not fit into the drive. "Big" diskettes may be folded and used in "little" disk drives.

Never insert a diskette into the drive upside down. The data can fall off the surface of the disk and jam the intricate mechanics of the drive.

Diskettes cannot be backed up by running them through the xerox machine. If your data is going to need to be backed up, simply insert two diskettes into the drive. Whenever you update a document, the data will be written on both diskettes.

Diskettes should not be inserted or removed from the drive while the red light is flashing. Doing so could result in smeared or possibly unreadable text. Occasionally the red light remains flashing in what is known as a "hung" or "hooked" state. If your system is "hooking" you will probably need to insert a few coins before being allowed access to the slot.

If your diskette is full and you need more storage space, remove the disk from the drive and shake vigorously for 2 minutes. This will pack the data enough (Data Compression) to allow for more storage. Be sure to cover all the openings with scotch tape to prevent loss of data.

Access time can be greatly improved by cutting more holes in the diskette jacket. This will provide more simultaneous access points to the disk.

Diskettes may be used as coasters for beverage glasses, provided that they are properly waxed beforehand. Be sure to wipe the diskettes dry before using. (see item 2 above)

Never use scissors and glue to manually edit documents. The data is stored much too small for the naked eye, and you may end up with data from some other document stuck in the middle of your document. Razor blades and scotch tape may be used, however, provided the user is equipped with an electron microscope.

Periodically spray diskettes with insecticide to prevent system bugs from spreading.


----------



## Runefox (Nov 6, 2010)

Jack.is said:


> If your diskette is full and you need more storage space, remove the disk from the drive and shake vigorously for 2 minutes. This will pack the data enough (Data Compression) to allow for more storage. Be sure to cover all the openings with scotch tape to prevent loss data.


 
I never tried this before, and boy, am I glad I just did! My diskette was full to the last bit (I made sure of that with a hex editor!), but after shaking it for a few minutes and sticking it back in, I had over a terabyte free! Not only that, but it actually ran faster than my hard drive did - I think all those SD cards on the market right now are just cut up bits of floppies that have been given this treatment. It takes longer and longer to compress it more than that, so that's why the higher-capacity SD cards cost more - Since it takes much longer to get that much more space inside that little card. It's amazing how technology has advanced so little in the past three decades since the 3.5" floppy's design alone.


----------



## AshleyAshes (Nov 6, 2010)

ArielMT said:


> I have been using, handling, and storing floppy disks since 1986, using disks and drives as old as 1979 in some cases, and I have never seen write-enabled floppies fail at a rate different from write-protected floppies. I have rarely formatted floppies more than once each, and I have always deleted files and reused the space. If what you claim is true, then why haven't I lost the oldest and most frequently deleted/rewritten of my floppies to read/write errors more often than I've lost read-only (and even copy protected) floppies?


 
Not to mention that when it comes to writing to a disc, moving data and deleting it are effectively the same.  It's just that moving data is a combination of a 'copy' and a 'delete' function in that order.  In the end the exact same function is done to the disc to remove the data.

...Wow, I keep typing Disc when it should ACTUALLY be Disk. D:


----------



## GingerM (Nov 6, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


>


May I say how much I love this .sig?


----------



## ArielMT (Nov 6, 2010)

Chronidu said:


> I may not have all my floppies but I still have my zip drive, and it still looks fuckawesome as it did 15 years ago



You might want to hunt down and keep another Zip drive as click-of-death insurance, depending on how much you rely on it.  The Zip 250 is mostly backwards compatible with the Zip 100 but slower, but the Zip 750 can only read from Zip 100 disks, not write to them.



AshleyAshes said:


> ...Wow, I keep typing Disc when it should ACTUALLY be Disk. D:


 
I tend to use "disc" for an actual discus and "disk" for a contained unit of discs.


----------



## Vo (Nov 6, 2010)

As I understand, the convention is to use "disc" for optical media and "disk" for magnetic media; therefore, a hard disk or a floppy disk, but a compact disc.


----------



## ShadowEon (Nov 6, 2010)

Kind of interesting but I don't have any more floppies, my new computer couldn't use them anyway. It is kind of amazing how just a few years ago floppy disks were still made and now there are no new ones.


----------



## Runefox (Nov 6, 2010)

ShadowEon said:


> Kind of interesting but I don't have any more floppies, my new computer couldn't use them anyway. It is kind of amazing how just a few years ago floppy disks were still made and now there are no new ones.


 
You can actually still find them if you look hard enough - I know The Source sells them here, or at least, they did a couple years ago (~2008) when I thought I'd never find any. Pretty sure they still do today, but I'd have to go down and check to be sure. All the same, they're still prevalent in some areas, such as with older hardware that can't easily be upgraded (or that can't actually be upgraded because it's depending on old technology). Though since it's becoming rarer nowadays, there's actually hardware floppy emulators you can get to plug into the floppy controller that can either use partitions or .iso files on USB flash drives in place of floppy disks (and as far as the computer is concerned, they are), which makes things a fair bit easier to handle, and much less mess on the desk, too.


----------



## Lobar (Nov 6, 2010)

Runefox said:


> I never tried this before, and boy, am I glad I just did! My diskette was full to the last bit (I made sure of that with a hex editor!), but after shaking it for a few minutes and sticking it back in, I had over a terabyte free! Not only that, but it actually ran faster than my hard drive did - I think all those SD cards on the market right now are just cut up bits of floppies that have been given this treatment. It takes longer and longer to compress it more than that, so that's why the higher-capacity SD cards cost more - Since it takes much longer to get that much more space inside that little card. It's amazing how technology has advanced so little in the past three decades since the 3.5" floppy's design alone.


 
Even better is if you jerry-rig one of those DVD rewinders to spin your diskette instead, the rotational velocidensity will compress all the data to the edge, not only leaving tons of free space but it will all be in the best sectors in the middle as well!


----------



## Runefox (Nov 6, 2010)

Lobar said:


> Even better is if you jerry-rig one of those DVD rewinders to spin your diskette instead, the rotational velocidensity will compress all the data to the edge, not only leaving tons of free space but it will all be in the best sectors in the middle as well!


 
Oh, man! I just HAVE to try that out! I'll have to hit up eBay since they look like they discontinued the DVD rewinders sometime last year. Hopefully they'll come up with a Blu-Ray rewinder to replace it, but I'd have to be careful that the blue laser doesn't burn through my other discs.


----------



## AshleyAshes (Nov 6, 2010)

On this note, my floppy drive died.  I have no idea when, I hadn't touched it for some time and then someone wanted me to pull a resume off the floppy disk.  Turned out it couldn't read Disks anymore and I had no idea how long it had been like that.  I kept the drive in the case to keep that spot occupied for esthetics.

Eventually I replaced it with a 5 in 1 card reader and USB hub that fits into a 3.5" bay and plugs into an internal USB header.  SD and CF slots on the front are much more handy if you ask me.


----------

