# Bolt



## enchantedtoast (Nov 22, 2008)

No thread for Disney's new animated dog movie yet? I couldn't wait to see it as soon as I saw the trailer. You would think furries would be all over this. Guess not... Anyways, I watched it today and I loved it. It had some pretty funny parts that I laughed at, but mostly I was just enamoured by how cute it was. Overall it's just a really, really sweet movie. (But then again I always get emotional over childrens' movies.) It has a lovely art style and I wish I could see it in 3D, but there are no theaters near here doing that. I liked the movie so much that I immediately went out and bought all of the Bolt merchandise I could get my hands on, and I might post pictures of them later.

* TL;DR:* I love Bolt.

So, has anyone else seen this movie or plan on seeing it?


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 23, 2008)

I will. I was impressed with Meet the Robinsons, and prayed that it will be the beginning of the "right track" of non-Pixar Disney CGI.

And it seems you're using the wrong "image filter". I've seen a few muscled up Bolt pics, both safe and unsafe.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 23, 2008)

I doubt I'll see it, as I just can't stand CG movies. I miss the old hand-drawn ones, which sadly are all but gone...


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 23, 2008)

I thought it was good when I first saw the trailer... but then I learned about it's original script, and that made me very upset...


----------



## Not A Fox (Nov 23, 2008)

I'm likely to see it.

I can feel the anachronistic complaint, though. It's not manipulation of a real canvas or of a physical paint. It's 1s & 0s, harassed into taking some crude shape in some non-existant corner of a box whose contents are put on display on something more soul-less than a TV screen.

Granted, CGI can look sharp, and do things a real animation can't, but there are times when I can be found wanting of a balance.

*TL;DR Version: Mixed Feelings*


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 23, 2008)

NAFFY said:


> Granted, CGI can look sharp, and do things a real animation can't, but there are times when I can be found wanting of a balance.



And vice versa. I've found hand-drawn/hand-colored animation to be more vibrant than CI can do. Take Secret of NIMH, for example. I don't know if CG would take the opening and reproduce it, or the climactic scene for that matter.


----------



## brrrr (Nov 23, 2008)

It looks like a cute movie. I think I liked it more when I had seen the first 30 seconds of the initial trailer. Sure, he was like a cliche superpower dog but it felt more original than the storyline they decided to pull. Still looks fun to see.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 23, 2008)

brrrr said:


> It looks like a cute movie. I think I liked it more when I had seen the first 30 seconds of the initial trailer. Sure, he was like a cliche superpower dog but it felt more original than the storyline they decided to pull. Still looks fun to see.



Underdog but without the powers?


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 23, 2008)

But at the cost of my favorite modern day Disney writer/actor? Thanks, but i'll pass... >.>


----------



## JaceShepherd (Nov 23, 2008)

enchantedtoast said:


> No thread for Disney's new animated dog movie yet? I couldn't wait to see it as soon as I saw the trailer. You would think furries would be all over this. Guess not... Anyways, I watched it today and I loved it. It had some pretty funny parts that I laughed at, but mostly I was just enamoured by how cute it was. Overall it's just a really, really sweet movie. (But then again I always get emotional over childrens' movies.) It has a lovely art style and I wish I could see it in 3D, but there are no theaters near here doing that. I liked the movie so much that I immediately went out and bought all of the Bolt merchandise I could get my hands on, and I might post pictures of them later.
> 
> *TL;DR:* I love Bolt.
> 
> So, has anyone else seen this movie or plan on seeing it?


 
Yea I saw it last night and for me it was by far the best movie Ive seen in a long time. ^^ Yes defently post pics of all your Bolt stuff so I can go out and get it hehe. My biggest question is do they plan to do more with Bolt or is this it? Honestly I think they could make Bolt into a very popular TV show or at least a second movie.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 23, 2008)

I really want to shoot CGI and 2D animation whores. Animation is just animation - do not limit yourself just because something is not in CGI or 2D.

Anyway, yeah, Bolt as far as I heard, is actually getting good scores.

Also, about Bolt's origin - LOL are you seriously not gonna watch it because of that?! Lilo and Stitch isn't even special!


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 23, 2008)

It sounds like a few of you don't want to see it because it's CG. I think I should point out that this movie was not done in the normal CG style, but rather a newer experimental style called non-photorealistic rendering. Think Ratatouille but even less photorealistic than that. To me it looks more like a cartoon-style painting come to life than something pixelated and digital. The scenery is beautiful, and there is a lot of it, as the group goes on a interstate journey from New York to Hollywood. Not to mention Bolt's fur looks so soft and fluffy, I just wanna squeeze him!

I think you should at least give it a try. But I dunno; if you can look at this and not see emotion, then you're not on the same page as me.









JaceShepherd said:


> Yea I saw it last night and for me it was by far the best movie Ive seen in a long time. ^^ Yes defently post pics of all your Bolt stuff so I can go out and get it hehe. My biggest question is do they plan to do more with Bolt or is this it? Honestly I think they could make Bolt into a very popular TV show or at least a second movie.


If you have a Disney Store near you and want to buy lots of Bolt stuff, I'd suggest you go *today* because there's an in-store 25% off sale this weekend only. Which would help _especially_ if you're looking to get the giant 30-inch plush.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 23, 2008)

I don't have anything against CG, I just think it doesn't look as good as hand-drawn animation (especially humans). The stories are good, but the detail in hand-drawn animation can be better than CG (especially old-age Disney movies).


----------



## NerdyMunk (Nov 23, 2008)

enchantedtoast said:


> No thread for Disney's new animated dog movie yet? I couldn't wait to see it as soon as I saw the trailer. You would think furries would be all over this. Guess not... Anyways, I watched it today and I loved it. It had some pretty funny parts that I laughed at, but mostly I was just enamoured by how cute it was. Overall it's just a really, really sweet movie. (But then again I always get emotional over childrens' movies.) It has a lovely art style and I wish I could see it in 3D, but there are no theaters near here doing that. I liked the movie so much that I immediately went out and bought all of the Bolt merchandise I could get my hands on, and I might post pictures of them later.
> 
> * TL;DR:* I love Bolt.
> 
> So, has anyone else seen this movie or plan on seeing it?



Me and my friend liked it. Better to see than that...IDK...Twilight movie.


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 23, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> I really want to shoot CGI and 2D animation whores. Animation is just animation - do not limit yourself just because something is not in CGI or 2D.
> 
> Anyway, yeah, Bolt as far as I heard, is actually getting good scores.
> 
> Also, about Bolt's origin - LOL are you seriously not gonna watch it because of that?! Lilo and Stitch isn't even special!



To you maybe!


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 23, 2008)

All right, here's a pic for Jace and anyone else interested.




The only things I'm missing now that I still want to get are the soundtrack and a T-shirt.


----------



## AlexInsane (Nov 23, 2008)

Is there a scene where he gets hit by a car?

No?

To hell with that then.


----------



## Skittle (Nov 23, 2008)

TwilightV said:


> I thought it was good when I first saw the trailer... but then I learned about it's original script, and that made me very upset...


Original script? Do tell


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 23, 2008)

skittle said:


> Original script? Do tell



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_(film)


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 23, 2008)

enchantedtoast said:


> All right, here's a pic for Jace and anyone else interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Somebody's obsessed! 
I wouldn't mind a small plushie. I played a demo of the DS game, it wasn't bad (easy, but not bad).


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 24, 2008)

But yeah, people turning it down for the original script is really the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.


----------



## brrrr (Nov 24, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_(film)


I don't really understand how people would be turned off from the movie due to the original plot? Is there something I'm missing?

It seems like development of this was rather rushed due to whatever incident happened with the original plot, so I can't help but feel less harsh on them for picking up a somewhat generic storyline for this movie due to time restrictions.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 24, 2008)

http://alwaysanimated.blogspot.com/2008/11/art-of-american-dog.html

^Here's more detail. As you can see, the change is for the better.

Seriously, I feel angry now. =(


----------



## DarkTalbain64 (Nov 24, 2008)

Hmm, i might see it.


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 24, 2008)

That sounded much better and less generic than what we got... >.>


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 24, 2008)

TwilightV said:


> That sounded much better and less generic than what we got... >.>



Premises =/= Execution


----------



## ZentratheFox (Nov 24, 2008)

Do want to see this. Personally, if the movie is enjoyable, that's all that really matters to me.


----------



## Huey (Nov 24, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> http://alwaysanimated.blogspot.com/2008/11/art-of-american-dog.html
> 
> ^Here's more detail. As you can see, the change is for the better.
> 
> Seriously, I feel angry now. =(



Really? Lasseter? I thought he'd be a _bit_ more resistant to exercising the absolute power that the CCO of Disney Animation wields. He can green-light any project with a stroke of his hand, but is also free to play these games with the writers and directors he hires to make sure things proceed as he desires. Because if things don't proceed as he desires, he can just as easily remove these key players from their own projects.

Besides that, there's way too much self-interest involved if he actually used Cars as one of the reasons as to why Bolt's story had to be so drastically changed. Not only did he, himself, write and direct Cars, it also happens to be the mutt-among-purebreds in Pixar's canon. 

Having seen Cars, if there's one thing I don't trust Lasseter to decide, it's measuring style against substance.


----------



## Emil (Nov 24, 2008)

Just looks to me like another CGI where everything but the characters are pretty, and the story is mediocre. I doubt Ill dish out the $10 to see it in theaters. Maybe watch it on video some time. I just really dont like CGI movies... once you make the model, all the work is pretty much done... all thats left to do is posing. Ill eventually see it. And Ill probably enjoy it somewhat. But I dont want to pay money for it. Just dont think itll be worth it. 







Somewhere, someone who works in marketing just made a happy mess in his pants... ;>.>


----------



## Huey (Nov 24, 2008)

Emil said:


> once you make the model, all the work is pretty much done... all thats left to do is posing.



WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 24, 2008)

Emil said:


> Just looks to me like another CGI where everything but the characters are pretty, and the story is mediocre. I doubt Ill dish out the $10 to see it in theaters. Maybe watch it on video some time. I just really dont like CGI movies... once you make the model, all the work is pretty much done... all thats left to do is posing. Ill eventually see it. And Ill probably enjoy it somewhat. But I dont want to pay money for it. Just dont think itll be worth it.
> 
> Somewhere, someone who works in marketing just made a happy mess in his pants... ;>.>



Have you even *WATCHED* it? I have read the spoilers and it is actually...

*...MANY TIMES BETTER THAN THOSE "CLASSIC" DISNEY FILMS LIKE SNOW WHITE AND JUNGLE BOOK.*


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 25, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Have you even *WATCHED* it? I have read the spoilers and it is actually...
> 
> *...MANY TIMES BETTER THAN THOSE "CLASSIC" DISNEY FILMS LIKE SNOW WHITE AND JUNGLE BOOK.*



Well, that's just your OPINION, isn't it? And your opinion may or may not agree with their's. But that doesn't make you "right" or them "wrong".


----------



## Aden (Nov 25, 2008)

Emil said:


> I just really dont like CGI movies... once you make the model, all the work is pretty much done... all thats left to do is posing.



Hahaha, oh wow.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 25, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> Well, that's just your OPINION, isn't it? And your opinion may or may not agree with their's. But that doesn't make you "right" or them "wrong".



No, but it makes them "wrong" for seriously being unfair out of material.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 25, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> No, but it makes them "wrong" for seriously being unfair out of material.



Uh, what? Dude, give itup. You're not convincing anyone with your "bawwww I hate old Disney and nobody agrees with me!" attitude.


----------



## Emil (Nov 25, 2008)

Huey said:


> WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT



You make an interactive model, once, and pose it. Big deal. Its pretty much the main advantage over computer generated models over traditionally done animation (real media or not) 

I mean, surely youre not going to tell me that more work is involved posing a model than redrawing someone over and over again to get them to move, where if you make a mistake youre fucked and have to start over again. Or worse, if you fuck up a whole scene, you have to decide whether or not its worth the time an effort fixing it(ie redraw the whole scene from scratch). Really, once you show someone how the program for moving a model works, pretty much anyone could do it, and if you screw up, you still got your 3dmodel to fall back on.

Theres just more time and effort involved in more traditional animation, and in the end, it doesnt look like most of the stuff I could buy for my xbox either. And you have to admit, that seems to be the trend with style in theses films.



WolfoxOkamichan said:


> I have read the spoilers



Oh, so you havnt watched it either yet eh?



WolfoxOkamichan said:


> No, but it makes them "wrong" for seriously being unfair out of material.



You do realise that disney is the ones who made much of these cg movies that you probably like, including this one.

And if youre trying to tell me that this movie is both prettier AND better written than a more modern traditional animation like, The Lion King, then I dont know what to tell you.

Dont get me wrong. Ill probably see this movie. And Ill probably like it. I just wont like it nearly as much as I liked older, more traditionally made animation.

What I liked was hybridizing. Movies like Treasure Planet and Titan AE were great. Its just too bad that no one wants to put the effort into traditional animation anymore.


----------



## Aden (Nov 25, 2008)

Emil said:


> You make an interactive model, once, and pose it. Big deal. Its pretty much the main advantage over computer generated models over traditionally done animation (real media or not)



Uh huh. All those lighting TDs, texturers, shaders, renderers, physics managers, etc. would like a word with you.

The big thing that gets me is that you're comparing 2D and 3D animation as if they're in the same ballpark _at all_. 2D is pure animation, pencil and sweat. 3D is animation mixed with traditional filmmaking, in that you have to model, shade, all of your subjects, and _then_ you have to lay out your scenes using principles of traditional filmmaking. There's enough light theory alone in filmmaking to fill up a library. Unless you've sat down and really tried to do something like this, you won't know how much work goes into every little stage of the pipeline. Quit talking out your ass.


----------



## Emil (Nov 25, 2008)

Aden said:


> Uh huh. All those lighting TDs, texturers, shaders, renderers, physics managers, etc. would like a word with you.



All equations that work constantly on an environment. Still something you do once and never have to do again except for special occasions. You render a lamp, it casts light. It casts the same amount of light constantly until you change the value. You dont have to worry about coloring everything right so it *looks* like a lamp is shining the same amount of light constantly, as well as render that lamp consistently in ever scene. Any of them are all still labor saving devices so you dont have to move objects piece by piece into realistic positions, paint each and every brick in a wall everytime you want a brick wall, or rack your brain everytime you want the shading to be realistic. You only have to do any of them once, and after that the computer does the rest.



> The big thing that gets me is that you're comparing 2D and 3D animation as if they're in the same ballpark _at all_. 2D is pure animation, pencil and sweat. 3D is animation mixed with traditional filmmaking, in that you have to model, shade, all of your subjects, and _then_ you have to lay out your scenes using principles of traditional filmmaking. There's enough light theory alone in filmmaking to fill up a library. Unless you've sat down and really tried to do something like this, you won't know how much work goes into every little stage of the pipeline. Quit talking out your ass.



All of which you have to do in traditional animation, unless of course you dont mind ending up with a big steaming pile. You just get to bend the rules of reality for maximum effect because things dont rely on equations and numbers. If you tell a a traditional animator that lighting and composition (or indeed any competent 2d artist at all) they will laugh at you and show you the door. You seem to like to lump the flash animations you see on youtube from some fixed perspective in with real, feature length theatrical animation. 

And youre making an assumption that I havnt actually tried something like this. For all you know, thats a very big assumption.


----------



## Aden (Nov 25, 2008)

Emil said:


> And youre making an assumption that I havnt actually tried something like this. For all you know, thats a very big assumption.



Nah, judging by your arguments, that's not that big an assumption. _Your_ assumption that I don't appreciate the work put into 2D, however, is insulting.

3D is a lot of work, but it's a different _kind_ of work. Sure, you don't have to worry about frame-to-frame consistency of that light, but please, I urge you to try to duplicate a lighting setup like this one, which includes animating the subtle character accent lights to be right where they should be every frame.

Sure, computers make things easier. Doesn't mean CG isn't an art.


----------



## Emil (Nov 25, 2008)

> Nah, judging by your arguments, that's not that big an assumption.



Well, its wrong. Believe me or not, your choice.



Aden said:


> _Your_ assumption that I don't appreciate the work put into 2D, however, is insulting.



Youre the one who said that 2d animation has no qualities of traditional filmaking, thats its only "pencil and sweat" *shrugs*



> 3D is a lot of work, but it's a different _kind_ of work. Sure, you don't have to worry about frame-to-frame consistency of that light, but please, I urge you to try to duplicate a lighting setup like http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2008/06/02/wall-e-cooler.jpg




With a traditional piece of artwork, or in a render?



> Sure, computers make things easier. Doesn't mean CG isn't an art.



I didnt say CG isnt art 

It just takes most of the work out of animation so you can focus on smaller details. I never said it wasnt pretty or legitimate, but Wall E wouldnt be as pretty as it is if they had to render him each and every frame of the film, as well as the buildings, the fog, and each piece of garbage in the movie.

I prefer traditional because it requires alot more effort from the entire team. In a big production CG, the people who animate arnt the same people who render. And lets be honest here, they still have concept sketches of each and ever object that gets rendered, so chances are, the ones who rendered the object didnt even really think it up themselves. *shrugs* But I suppose you could say the same thing about traditional animators as well, because the people who do concept still most like arnt the ones doing the animation.

In the end, the whole argument is just time vs money. You say lets see you animate *this* traditional, and all I think is... Its completely possible. Itd just take 20 years to do. Its not impossible, just... not really worth the time to do.

I could get into dehumanization and things such as that, but thatd be dragging the topic more off topic than it already is. I think we should just drop it lol


----------



## Huey (Nov 25, 2008)

Emil said:
			
		

> It just takes most of the work out of animation so you can focus on smaller details. I never said it wasnt pretty or legitimate, but Wall E wouldnt be as pretty as it is if they had to render him each and every frame of the film, as well as the buildings, the fog, and each piece of garbage in the movie.



Making a large generalization such as this about the work involved in creating animated CG art is patronizing to such artists. Please try to articulate your opinion without deprecating an entire medium as though writing it off as simply being a shortcut for making animation.


----------



## Emil (Nov 25, 2008)

Huey said:


> Making a large generalization such as this about the work involved in creating animated CG art is patronizing to such artists. Please try to articulate your opinion without deprecating an entire medium as though writing it off as simply being a shortcut for making animation.



So, youre saying CG *isnt* easier to animate than traditional animation?

Youll notice, the only thing Ive ever really complained about is just the animation. Its easier. Simple as that.

Also, no. Because people who work on a CG film are still their own respective artists, and consider themselves such. A renderer is a renderer, an animator is an animator, and a concept artist is a concept artist. They all have their own things to do, and always will. But you cant tell me that animating a render has the same difficulty as actually drawing something out, frame by frame and trying to keep the image consistent. 

You can say what you want about how pretty a scene in a CG animation is, but the animator didn't put it there, not anymore. They just make it move.

*Anyway... this thread is supposed to be about Bolt not Traditional vs CG animation. So lets just drop it.*


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 25, 2008)

TyVulpine said:


> Uh, what? Dude, give itup. You're not convincing anyone with your "bawwww I hate old Disney and nobody agrees with me!" attitude.



*facepalm*

I am NOT hating old Disney (in fact, I still think 90's animation is the best), but I AM hating the unfair treatment modern stuff are getting at.

Also, you'll be surprised how more memorable 80's/90's Disney are compared to their older ones.


----------



## CyberFox (Nov 25, 2008)

I just came back from seeing BOLT... in Disney Digital 3D
I can tell you this, It's awesome just like the promotional material states

Disney Digital 3D is a double edge sword, there are times it can work (BOLT for example) but there are times that probably won't work (Beauty and The Beast comes to mind)

The Story is bit unoriginal but you can't help but to enjoy it as it is
The characters are likeable in their seperate right, from the awkward perspective all the reviews (even Spill.com) favor Rhino The Hamster and i can see why, He's a laugh a minute or probably a second :3

What i find disappointing is that is currently in 3rd place due to the overhyped vampire/goth film "Twilight" based on a book i never even heard of, I saw that at one of my outings with a local disabilities group, It's great but It's goth overtones can get depressing in short spurts

I highly recommend that you see BOLT either with or without Disney Digital 3D, let's be frank here sometimes a overhyped film or video game often turns out to be nothing more than a disappointment (Advent Rising comes to mind)

Avoid the hype and see BOLT, I promise you it definitely made up for that shitfest that was Beverly Hills Chihuahua (BTW: Spill.com gave Beverly Hills Chihuahua a "Rental" rating)


----------



## Huey (Nov 25, 2008)

Emil said:


> So, youre saying CG *isnt* easier to animate than traditional animation?



CG certainly has more work involved.



			
				emil said:
			
		

> But you cant tell me that animating a render has the same difficulty as actually drawing something out, frame by frame and trying to keep the image consistent.



Sure I can! =D

Doing what you describe is tedious, though not necessarily difficult.


----------



## Emil (Nov 25, 2008)

Huey said:


> CG certainly has more work involved.



Any actual... you know, examples to back up that statement? Examples that I cant just point out as having a more labor intensive equivalent in traditional animation?



> Doing what you describe is tedious, though not necessarily difficult.



...right.


----------



## Aden (Nov 25, 2008)

Emil said:


> Any actual... you know, examples to back up that statement? Examples that I cant just point out as having a more labor intensive equivalent in traditional animation?



Rigging. >..o


----------



## Emil (Nov 25, 2008)

Aden said:


> Rigging. >..o



Thats basically an interactive construction step of a sketch. Its a skeleton. It also makes animating large motions ridiculously simple. Especially when compared to doing the same motion in a traditional animation


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 25, 2008)

I'd suggest you all do yourselves a favor and watch the HD trailer before you criticize the animation style.

http://www.myspace.com/trailerpark

Seriously, does that not look beautiful and detailed to you? Especially in 1080p.


----------



## Magica (Nov 25, 2008)

Is it bad that Miley Cyrus being in it is keeping me from wanting me to see this movie? <<


----------



## CyberFox (Nov 25, 2008)

DragonMagica said:


> Is it bad that Miley Cyrus being in it is keeping me from wanting me to see this movie? <<



I saw the film, Miley Cyrus was pretty good in her VO role in this film


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 25, 2008)

DragonMagica said:


> Is it bad that Miley Cyrus being in it is keeping me from wanting me to see this movie? <<


Yes. Her voice actually does fit her character. And honestly, she doesn't even have that many lines.


----------



## Aden (Nov 26, 2008)

Emil said:


> Thats basically an interactive construction step of a sketch. Its a skeleton. It also makes animating large motions ridiculously simple. Especially when compared to doing the same motion in a traditional animation



But the art of rigging itself has no equivalent in 2D, which is what you asked for. All the painting weights, parenting, constraining, making controls, writing expressions, and all that other good stuff is purely unique to 3D animation.

Also, I'm going to be away from internets for a few days thanks to Thanksgiving, so just agree with me and move on, eh?


----------



## Huey (Nov 26, 2008)

Emil said:


> Any actual... you know, examples to back up that statement? Examples that I cant just point out as having a more labor intensive equivalent in traditional animation?



Shading algorithms! 



			
				emil said:
			
		

> ...right.



Yay I won =D


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 26, 2008)

Is Miley Cyrus the hamster? Don't worry, he's not featured prominently.

Finally got to see it, and I must say... it's surprising and awesome at the same time being a tear-jerker!

SPOILERS

Bolt isn't being naive for the sake of it - they actually explained that they isolated him so that he would act realistically. It's quite touching and at the same time hurting that his owner is forced to do that.

Bolt is also smart despite of that. I also love his "super dog" to normal dog transformation.

Also the movie has tons of foreshadowing! Well-placed, not out of place, and yeah, so much tear-jerk moments.


----------



## Emil (Nov 26, 2008)

> But the art of rigging itself has no equivalent in 2D, which is what you asked for



I asked for something I couldnt give you an equivalent too. I can give an equivalent. Its a construction sketch. The fact that is made permanent and aids you in making your animations much easier only serves my point. Obviously, since traditional animation doesnt have a 3d model, it isnt going to have things that go into making a 3d model. But that doesnt mean that there isnt some equivalent process in 2d animation that has to get repeated, watched, and highly scrutinized to achieve the same results.



> painting weights



Consistently applying theories weight and distribution to a real drawing over and over again. And once again, something you add to the model once so you dont have to do it again.



> parenting, constraining, making controls, writing expressions, and all that other good stuff is purely unique to 3D animation.



I dont know what any of that is, but if you tell me, Ill find you an equivalent. Im guessing many of them have equations in then, making you think that makes them unique to the media. True, an 2d animator most likely isnt going to do equations (they could if they really wanted to) but the point of the equations is to cause something to happen, that a 2d animator also would have to do, only without having to worry about getting it right all the time. Different medium, same results, therefore equivalent.



> Also, I'm going to be away from internets for a few days thanks to Thanksgiving, so just agree with me and move on, eh?



How about we agree to disagree? That way you dont seem like a dick for trying to "win" because youre leaving (how does that work?) and I dont look like a dick for pressing the issue when you cant attempt to make some counter point.



> Shading algorithms



Um... painting the shade on a figure over and over again by hand in each and every frame? The purpose of the equation is labor saving =\ Just because you use an equation to achieve the same results doesnt make the process unique, youre just limited by your chosen medium.

But yes, lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.


----------



## Huey (Nov 26, 2008)

Emil said:


> But yes, lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.



Yay I won =D


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 26, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Is Miley Cyrus the hamster? Don't worry, he's not featured prominently.


Uhh, Miley Cyrus does the voice for the girl, Penny. But what you said is also true for Penny. Even though Bolt's separation from Penny is a central point of the plot, a large portion of the movie focuses on Bolt's journey back to her with Mittens and Rhino. For being such an essential character, the amount of screen time Penny gets is comparatively limited.

Also, I said this already but I think some people overlooked it. *Watch the HD trailer. *It shows just how beautiful the art style is.
http://www.myspace.com/trailerpark


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 26, 2008)

Okay, i'm really hoping Chris Sanders left Disney of his own accord. After reading about John Lasseter's career, it would be a really cruel irony if he fired him...


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 26, 2008)

Eh, I don't think the story will be really hooking if it was did in its original script.

Also, Penny says few lines, but at least we are shown enough scenes to warrant that she actually cares for Bolt.


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 26, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Eh, I don't think the story will be really hooking if it was did in its original script.
> 
> Also, Penny says few lines, but at least we are shown enough scenes to warrant that she actually cares for Bolt.


Oh, I wasn't doubting the sincerity of Penny's character. I was just reassuring everyone that even someone who *hates* Miley Cyrus would by no means have the movie ruined for them because of her voice acting.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 27, 2008)

Ah, that's just sad.

I mean seriously. Really, really sad.


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 27, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Eh, I don't think the story will be really hooking if it was did in its original script.
> 
> Also, Penny says few lines, but at least we are shown enough scenes to warrant that she actually cares for Bolt.



Miss the point of my post?

Anyways, I have no problem with Miley being in the film. In a few years, she'll be just another footnote, like Hillary Duff.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 27, 2008)

Nope.

And again, I stand by my point - *cough Cars*

But yeah, the movie is awesome, and that's all that matters.


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 27, 2008)

That may be, but of all of Pixar's movies, Cars is the only one I find unnappealing. And wouldn't you know it... it's getting a sequel, which it really doesn't deserve.


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 27, 2008)

And if you haven't figured out the irony part, I meant that John Lasseter was also fired by Disney for one of his works (Which was also rejected then remade by Disney).


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 27, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Nope.
> 
> And again, I stand by my point - *cough Cars*
> 
> But yeah, the movie is awesome, and that's all that matters.



Not even having Dale Earnhardt Jr, Darrell Waltrip, Richard Petty, Michael Schumacher, Jay Leno, Tom Hanks, Tim Allen, Billy Crystal, John Goodman could save "Cars"...too many celebrities costing the movie money that could have been spent improving the film.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 27, 2008)

I think it has something to do with the story - it felt like... eh... it's not worth tasting.


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 27, 2008)

Okay. I actually went to see it, and I have to say, my opinion on it has not changed. The story was waaaay too quirky (even by Disney standards). If not for the decent work of the artists and actors, this movie would have been a major B-O-M-B. And Rhino has got to have one of THE MOST overused personalities in movies. Did you notice that he clearly ripped off Kronk in that one scene (if you've seen it, you know the one).


----------



## GatodeCafe (Nov 27, 2008)

Just saw Bolt. Without a doubt, this probably rates as one of the cutest films in the Disney canon. And that's really saying something.

I thought the animation was amazing, and the plot, aside from being a complete cliche, complete with convenient "Trans-America" plot device, was engrossing enough for Disney's main demographic. True, I wish Rhino could've been less annoying and true, the writing could've been a bit more polished, but as a whole, I felt that the film succeeded. And the ending. I mean shit. I was d'aaawwwing all the way through the damn movie. Sassy New Yorkian cat, finds a home?

You know, shit like that is cliche for a reason. Because it's fucking awesome.


----------



## enchantedtoast (Nov 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Ah, that's just sad.
> 
> I mean seriously. Really, really sad.


Yeah. And don't get me wrong, I'm actually a fan of Miley; I just I know a lot of people don't like her...


On a lighter note, he's a pic of me in my Bolt T-shirt holding my giant, huggable plushie!


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 28, 2008)

Again, premise vs. execution. Any overused or cliche premise can still be made of win because of the execution.

And yeah, while I too don't like Rhino, at least he knows when to "step out" on serious/emotional elements.

Heck, the movie screams of Bolt/Mittens and you know it!

Also, needs moar Bolt musclefur


----------



## NerdyMunk (Nov 28, 2008)

Oh dear...


----------



## Aden (Nov 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Also, needs moar Bolt musclefur



Wrong.


----------



## Grimfang (Nov 28, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Also, needs moar Bolt musclefur



But oh so right.


That one on the right is really cute xD
I have no idea what this movie is about, other than a dog named "Bolt", although I keep hearing about it, so I guess I should see it. >_>


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 28, 2008)

It's about Bolt, star of his own  action TV show who believes every part of it is real. When his owner is kidnapped (in show), Bolt escapes his home in an attempt to find and resue her. This leads to him travelling (in a cardboard box) from Hollywood to New York. Which winds up with him travelling back home with help from a cat named Mittens, and later, a hamster named Rhino.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 30, 2008)

Aden said:


> Wrong.



no u D:

On a relevant note - I tend to laugh at people who pretty much summarize the movie with "it's yet another 'you can be hero without superpowers' film", which its not. In fact, it's only relevant in a subplot that is easily cleared around the first half of the film.


----------



## ZentratheFox (Nov 30, 2008)

Saw the movie. I, for one, found it terribly amusing. I recommend seeing it. :3


----------



## Aden (Nov 30, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> no u D:



Furries ruin everything. >:C


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 30, 2008)

Not if they are sexeh!


----------



## TwilightV (Nov 30, 2008)

I just facepalm'd... >:3


----------



## NerdyMunk (Nov 30, 2008)

Furries, you're doing it wrong.


----------



## Nylak (Nov 30, 2008)

enchantedtoast said:


> All right, here's a pic for Jace and anyone else interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Holy crap Bolt plushies.  *grabby hands.*

[/immature moment]


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Nov 30, 2008)

More pics then?


----------



## Aden (Dec 1, 2008)

Bolt is ruined by overzealous use of muscles. Seriously. The character is ruined.

\Just saw it today.
\\Pretty good film.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 1, 2008)

Hey, at least it's a bit better than some of the versions of him that I saw...

...

*shudder*


----------



## Nylak (Dec 1, 2008)

Aden said:


> Bolt is ruined by overzealous use of muscles. Seriously. The character is ruined.


 
This.  It just sucks out the cute and fuzzy factor.  D:


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 1, 2008)

But it's random D:


----------



## AlexInsane (Dec 1, 2008)

The picture made me weep tears of blood.

I'm opening a gift shop.


----------



## Grimfang (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm not opposed to the Bolt fanart that's been showing up lately, hahah.

But sounds like it's had good responses, so I guess I'll check it out sometime. Probably when it's on DVD.


----------



## CarlMinez (Dec 2, 2008)

enchantedtoast said:


> All right, here's a pic for Jace and anyone else interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I want that stuff so bad its not even funny.


----------



## Renton Whitetail (Dec 2, 2008)

I just saw it yesterday, and I enjoyed it.  It's got a nice cast of characters, a good story, and neat animation. I highly recommend it.


----------



## enchantedtoast (Dec 2, 2008)

CarlMinez said:


> I want that stuff so bad its not even funny.


I don't blame you.

To be honest, the big plushie is so soft and cuddly that when I hug it I have a hard time letting go.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 2, 2008)

On a related note, what is Bolt's breed? I heard he's a white german shepard, but... he's too small to be one!


----------



## enchantedtoast (Dec 2, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> On a related note, what is Bolt's breed? I heard he's a white german shepard, but... he's too small to be one!


I'm pretty sure he's just a small German Sheperd.


Also, I've got the soundtrack now. Miley and Travolta's duet rocks. <3


----------



## Zseliq (Dec 2, 2008)

Pretty sure he is a white GSD, perhaps a young one explains his size. I have not seen the movie, tho. The large ears, fur length, and confo just says German Shepherd Dog to me/


----------



## Toxxy (Dec 2, 2008)

Haven't seen it yet, want to though.


----------



## Nylak (Dec 2, 2008)

Reiterating what everyone else is saying, yeah, my first impression was that he's an American white shepherd puppy. >>






Everyone say "awwww" in unison now.


----------



## Toxxy (Dec 2, 2008)

Fuck unison.

AAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 3, 2008)

AAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

But... for a 5+ year old Shep, he sure is small. I think by that age he'd be big.


----------



## Zseliq (Dec 4, 2008)

Maybe they made him to be an unrecognizable breed so as not to boost the popularity of a certian breed as other movies have.(Snow Dogs-Huskies, 101 Dalmations-Dalmations,Marley and Me-Labradors)


----------



## enchantedtoast (Dec 4, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> AAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
> 
> But... for a 5+ year old Shep, he sure is small. I think by that age he'd be big.


It's just character design. His proportions are altered to make him cuter, but it's pretty clear he's a German Shepard. Just look at the first of these pieces of concept art:
http://community.livejournal.com/bolt2008/18772.html


----------



## Nylak (Dec 5, 2008)

Agreed.  _Definitely_ an AWS.


----------



## TwilightV (Dec 5, 2008)

I hope Chris Sanders gets to make American Dog one day. I'd go out to see it no matter how bad other people think it is...

Haven't seen commercials for the movie lately... what's up with that?


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 7, 2008)

A movie out for weeks ago won't have ads.


----------



## Kiffa_kitmouse (Dec 12, 2008)

OK, here's how I feel about the whole "Bolt" vs. "American Dog" thing...

I _loved_ "Lilo & Stitch". I loved that it was quirky, and different, and not standard Disney fare in a lot of ways. But honestly, after seeing "Bolt", and reading everything that I've read about its development, I can't imagine that I would've preferred Sanders'  vision over the final product. Quirky is great when it serves the storyline, and it was perfect for a story about an orphaned little girl who finds a best friend in an outlaw alien. But being quirky just for the sake of being quirky-- like, for instance, tossing a random giant mutant bunny into a story about a lost TV-star dog-- doesn't always make a ton of sense to me, and in this case, _could have been_ tantamount to box office suicide.

But that's just me.


----------



## TwilightV (Dec 12, 2008)

Sounds like they're getting desperate now. Honestly, ANOTHER Mater short? I'm glad I went to see it before that... XP


----------



## Magica (Dec 12, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> AAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
> 
> But... for a 5+ year old Shep, he sure is small. I think by that age he'd be big.





enchantedtoast said:


> It's just character design. His proportions are altered to make him cuter, but it's pretty clear he's a German Shepard. Just look at the first of these pieces of concept art:
> http://community.livejournal.com/bolt2008/18772.html



Well he was from a pet store, so he could just be an improperly bred puppy mill dog, like the "teacup" type. 

I did finally see this a few days ago. It's cute, but I didn't find it extremely great.


----------



## bane233 (Dec 12, 2008)

ive just seen the porn


----------



## Hlavco (Dec 12, 2008)

Bolt looks just like my White Shepherd. Well, a few months ago when he was still small.

Anyway, the original plot seems like _Homeward Bound_ with CGI and bunnies.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 12, 2008)

Kiffa_kitmouse said:


> OK, here's how I feel about the whole "Bolt" vs. "American Dog" thing...
> 
> I _loved_ "Lilo & Stitch". I loved that it was quirky, and different, and not standard Disney fare in a lot of ways. But honestly, after seeing "Bolt", and reading everything that I've read about its development, I can't imagine that I would've preferred Sanders'  vision over the final product. Quirky is great when it serves the storyline, and it was perfect for a story about an orphaned little girl who finds a best friend in an outlaw alien. But being quirky just for the sake of being quirky-- like, for instance, tossing a random giant mutant bunny into a story about a lost TV-star dog-- doesn't always make a ton of sense to me, and in this case, _could have been_ tantamount to box office suicide.
> 
> But that's just me.



It's in fact lampshaded in Bolt - adding aliens in the tv show for the sake of being different and having plot immediately made the Bolt show less appealing (at least to the hamster fanboy Rhino).


----------



## Skie (Dec 12, 2008)

I liked the movie. Watched it first day it arrived of course. I mean its furry after all 
Guess I'm somewhat like the thread opener.


----------



## Renton Whitetail (Dec 12, 2008)

I saw it last week, and I personally enjoyed it.  It's got a good cast of characters, great story and excellent animation. Go see it while you can!


----------



## enchantedtoast (Dec 12, 2008)

TwilightV said:


> Sounds like they're getting desperate now. Honestly, ANOTHER Mater short? I'm glad I went to see it before that... XP


I'm sure they are. It's a shame that Twilight moved its premier to the same day as Bolt's. Disney never stood a chance against that...


Just to show the film's amazing art style, check out these beautiful HD screencaps. 
http://sidtjey.livejournal.com/79196.html


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 18, 2008)

I heard Bolt's doing better now in the gross.


----------



## TwilightV (Dec 18, 2008)

Figures. Some people can't get enough of (ugh...) Larry The Cable Guy. XP


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 19, 2008)

I am so missing something with that quote. :O

No, seriously, I don't get it. One of the VA's?


----------



## TwilightV (Dec 19, 2008)

If you mean what I said, look up "Tokyo Mater".


----------



## WetWolf (Dec 19, 2008)

i loved the movie lol the cat reminds me of the one that hangs out in my appartment complex which i give my dinner scraps to like every night lol


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 19, 2008)

<3 Bolt HD


----------



## shadycell (Dec 21, 2008)

I thought it was pretty boring to be honest, I don't understand what all the hype is about


----------



## WetWolf (Dec 22, 2008)

it wasnt a blockbuster but it was a cute movie ^_^


----------



## CarlMinez (Dec 22, 2008)

shadycell said:


> I thought it was pretty boring to be honest, I don't understand what all the hype is about


 
Define "boring".


----------



## lone_husky (Dec 22, 2008)

"Styrofoam my only weakness" one of many funny lines in the movie


----------



## Nocturnowl357 (Dec 22, 2008)

Damn I saw this recently and haven't said this in years but I liked a Disney movie...A KIDS DISNEY MOVIE!

Either its the interest in furry media or the movie itself but whatever it is; im getting it on blu-ray!

Thing that pissed me off was Malcolm McDowell...THEY DIDN'T USE HIM BARELY AT ALL! WHAT A WASTE!


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 22, 2008)

What was his part in the movie?


----------



## Nocturnowl357 (Dec 22, 2008)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> What was his part in the movie?



The greeneyed dude. 6 lines...at least Bethesda used him for a good amount in they're game before dropping him like a brick.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Dec 23, 2008)

Was he in Oblivion?

Also, I can't wait for the DVD.


----------



## Beck (Dec 23, 2008)

omg i saw this today XD 

totally adorable.


----------



## Suirad (Dec 23, 2008)

I've seen it, he's cute. ^.^


----------



## Ratte (Dec 27, 2008)

Don't want to see it.


----------



## BloodYoshi (Dec 27, 2008)

This movie annoys me, because I named my dog Bolt when I got her seven years ago and now the name is totally ruined.

Plus ever since Barnyard, CG movies are getting increasingly old and tired.


----------



## Gizgiz (Jan 13, 2009)

Hiya, looking for the user @ FA that "was" bolt and fav'ed all the fanart.. Cant find him again 

please help

edit: nevermind  http://www.furaffinity.net/user/boltthedog


----------



## Dantekat (Jan 29, 2009)

I've seen the character from the "orginal" script and I actually like the America white shepard "Bolt" better. Though, there was also a cat with an eye patch in the orginal script. That would have been interesting.


----------



## Records (Jan 29, 2009)

i loved this film and cursed loudly when it lost to wall-e.

nothing against wall-e, but I thought Bolt was a better movie.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Jan 30, 2009)

Lasseter = quality, that I'm sure


----------



## Records (Jan 30, 2009)

Lasseter is the best thing to happen for Disney in a while in their animation department and Bolt is proof. You can look online and find out the "american dog"/"Bolt" story differences. The original director was going to take the film in the direction films like this go all the time. Lasseter told the animation and story department to take the story where the story goes. If it doesn't make sense then find something that makes sense- no need to force any thing into the story that doesn't belong there.  Originally the LasVegas setting was supposed to involve a huge fight between some street dogs and bolt where bolt realized his powers were television effects and had to scrap his way out of a tight spot. Lasseter, true to form, said why? Why have him fight when we can simply have him realize his powers weren't there to begin with the moment he's outside the studio? He's not retarded, just misled. Have bolt realize on the way back to LA his powers weren't real- but cast a shadow of doubt that penny's love wasn't real- that will take you further than a dog fight. So in vegas Mittens casts doubt on Penny's love for Bolt saying: It was ALL TV, nothing was real.


----------



## SuperFurryBonzai (Jan 31, 2009)

i saw this movie halfway throigh because my asshole friend made us leave =[ i really wanted to see it but now i have to wait for dvd =[


----------



## fx1 (Feb 28, 2009)

I liked this film, but one "plot device", so to say, was very disturbing. Declawing cats  It's a really sick form of animal cruelty and should be banned everywhere. I wonder how this little but important detail (how did Bolt subdue Mittens so easily?) was translated in the international versions, especially in countries where it's illegal. It's a movie for children after all.. I guess it was just handwaved away somehow or left out completely. There would be no room in the dubbed script to explain an illegal and unheard-of procedure (especially to children).


----------



## Toaster (Mar 1, 2009)

Uh, can any one say retard-movie? I hated it.


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 1, 2009)

Bolt is sexy. The end of the movie with the fire was boring.


----------



## Toaster (Mar 1, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Bolt is sexy. The end of the movie with the fire was boring.



wtf..............


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 2, 2009)

Ornias said:


> wtf..............


 Wtf yourself, weirdo. If you didn't know you are on a furry message board. What did you think would happen?


----------



## Toaster (Mar 5, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Wtf yourself, weirdo. If you didn't know you are on a furry message board. What did you think would happen?



How in hell do you find fire boring? Its the funniest thing in the world.


----------



## WolfoxOkamichan (Mar 5, 2009)

fx1 said:


> I liked this film, but one "plot device", so to say, was very disturbing. Declawing cats  It's a really sick form of animal cruelty and should be banned everywhere. I wonder how this little but important detail (how did Bolt subdue Mittens so easily?) was translated in the international versions, especially in countries where it's illegal. It's a movie for children after all.. I guess it was just handwaved away somehow or left out completely. There would be no room in the dubbed script to explain an illegal and unheard-of procedure (especially to children).



Lasseter.


----------



## Imperial Impact (Mar 6, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Bolt is sexy.


----------



## HoneyPup (Mar 27, 2009)

I just watched this movie (got it on DVD today). I liked it.  
Interesting to read about the original plot. I do like the way it was done, cliche or not. It was very cute.


----------



## Toaster (Mar 27, 2009)

God I hated that movie, had to take my little sister to see it :/

suck +2


----------

