# Wii Modders/Homebrewers...



## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 26, 2011)

Are there any here by chance? I'm quite an enthusiast with softmodding the Wii because it's so easy to do thanks to the efforts of Team Twiizers and other experts on the Wii.

I'm trying to learn to code homebrew applications for the Wii, but for now I'm working on mods for Wii games.


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## Heliophobic (Mar 26, 2011)

Isn't console modding illegal and not to be discussed in BnB or TFL?


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## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm not sure about the specific rules about it here, but I'm pretty certain modding consoles itself is not illegal, just using it to pirate games, which is unfortunately the majority use of modding. It is not what I use it for, however, I'm simply an enthusiast of homebrew applications on the Wii.

Mods: If discussing this is against the rules, feel free to close this thread and accept my apologies.


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## Fay V (Mar 26, 2011)

Not illegal in itself, you just voided the warranty. You bought it and can use it as a doorstop for all it matters. Pirating is illegal.


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## Heliophobic (Mar 26, 2011)

I suppose I've mistyped that. By illegal, I meant violating said console's ToS or shit like that.

I would never pass as a lawyer. :V


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## theinkfox (Mar 26, 2011)

HatchlingByHeart said:


> I'm not sure about the specific rules about it here, but I'm pretty certain modding consoles itself is not illegal, just using it to pirate games, which is unfortunately the majority use of modding. It is not what I use it for, however, I'm simply an enthusiast of homebrew applications on the Wii.
> 
> Mods: If discussing this is against the rules, feel free to close this thread and accept my apologies.


 
homebrew applications for wii or any other console of course are not ilegal, but if you want to use homebrew application then you need to install "the homebrew channel" and that is completelly ilegal because you have to mod the firmware of the console
the firmware has cluf or eula copyrights so it's ilegal to modify it


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## Runefox (Mar 26, 2011)

Grycho said:


> I suppose I've mistyped that. By illegal, I meant violating said console's ToS or shit like that.


 Yeah, it's not illegal. All it does is void the warranty.

Mine's modded; It gets more use modded than it did vanilla. I don't have a modchip, nor have I done any risky IOS flashing to try to get pirated games working on it, but I do love me some emulators. With a USB hard drive hanging off it, the Wii is pretty awesome. I haven't tried my hand at programming anything for it, though. I suppose if I were more inclined towards programming in general I'd have given it a go by now.



> that is completelly ilegal because you have to mod the firmware of the console


No, it really isn't. Modifying the firmware is at most a void of the warranty. Nintendo deals with repairs for homebrewed consoles all the time, and what they do is basically say "Well, you modified it, so it isn't under warranty, here's the bill". They don't take them to court or send the police after them, because it isn't illegal in the slightest.

Apple fought and lost this kind of lawsuit with regard to jailbreaks/unlocks for iDevices, and frankly, rightfully so. You bought the device, you should be able to do with it as you please; This is why the Sony v. Geohot case right now is incredibly important, because what Sony is attempting to do is to say that they own what you've purchased beyond the purchase, can do what they want with it whenever they wish, and you aren't allowed to do anything with it except what they say you can do with it. That's fine if you're leasing it or you're under a service agreement, but a console is something you own, TOS/EULA or no.


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## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 26, 2011)

theinkfox said:


> homebrew applications for wii or any other console of course are not ilegal, but if you want to use homebrew application then you need to install "the homebrew channel" and that is completelly ilegal because you have to mod the firmware of the console


 
The firmware isn't covered as part of what is deemed illegal modification. Usually this involves modchipping or other types of modification to the hardware, not the software. As mentioned earlier in thread, the console is yours to use as you see fit, as long as you do not do anything that puts the company at a financial loss, such as piracy. Saying that modifying the firmware is illegal is like saying it's illegal to install Linux instead of Windows on a PC. Modifying software installed on your computer is not illegal, distributing it illegally is.


Also, as far as the ToS goes, the only things about it I could find are as follows:



> Don't post or discuss anything illegal. You and you alone are responsible for your actions, and take full responsibility for consequences of your actions


And later on in the enforcement policy:



> We will uphold our policies and actively protect the interests of the site and our members. This includes, but not limited to: stopping art theft/tracing, identity theft or attempts at financial harm, personal harassment or organizing trolling, piracy or other illegal activity or any activity which we feel is a threat to the site or its community.


Again, this appears to only cover piracy. I'm not doing that.


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## theinkfox (Mar 26, 2011)

Runefox said:


> No, it really isn't. Modifying the firmware is at most a void of the warranty. Nintendo deals with repairs for homebrewed consoles all the time, and what they do is basically say "Well, you modified it, so it isn't under warranty, here's the bill". They don't take them to court or send the police after them, because it isn't illegal in the slightest.


 
but, the firmware has cluf or eula copyrights so it's ilegal to modify it
they don't bother about hacked consoles, that's another story


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## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 26, 2011)

theinkfox said:


> but, the firmware has cluf or eula copyrights so it's ilegal to modify it
> they don't bother about hacked consoles, that's another story


 
Even if the firmware was illegal to modify, it doesn't actually modify the firmware, it simply uses a signing bug in a vulnerable IOS to install a new channel. The firmware is seperate in the NAND memory and isn't touched. It's sneaky, yes, but certainly not illegal.


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## Runefox (Mar 26, 2011)

theinkfox said:


> but, the firmware has cluf or eula copyrights so it's ilegal to modify it
> they don't bother about hacked consoles, that's another story


 Uhh... I think you just said two completely different things. Just so we're clear, a hacked console == Firmware modification. Nintendo doesn't care about that beyond breaking the warranty because that isn't illegal, nor is any breech of a EULA/TOS in itself illegal (nor has anyone ever defended one in court to my knowledge, in no small part due to the fact that EULA's are about as legally sound as the concept of breaching one being illegal).

Now, if someone were to, say, take Nintendo's stock firmware and *decompile* it, then yes, that would be copyright infringement.


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## theinkfox (Mar 26, 2011)

HatchlingByHeart said:


> Even if the firmware was illegal to modify, it doesn't actually modify the firmware, it simply uses a signing bug in a vulnerable IOS to install a new channel. The firmware is seperate in the NAND memory and isn't touched. It's sneaky, yes, but certainly not illegal.


 
well maybe some things are changing, because in its last version of the wii's firmware, yes actually you don't touch the firmware, but if you want to make the console functional then you have to change the actual firmware to an earlier and modified version of the firmware
about bugs, reporting them isn't ilegal but if you are using them for your benefit, that's ilegal


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## Runefox (Mar 26, 2011)

... No. None of that is illegal. And that's not how Wii modding works. That's how PSP modding works. Wii modding literally is just an insertion of a channel by exploiting a bug. And exploiting bugs isn't illegal, either.


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## theinkfox (Mar 26, 2011)

it could be because all of you are still using the 4.2U version
in europe and latinamerica we are using 4.3E version

about the legal thing, maybe we are talking about the same but in diferent ways, becuase it's a very thin line between legal and ilegal in this kind of things, just look at sony and their new firmware politics


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## Runefox (Mar 26, 2011)

4.3 is homebrewable in pretty much exactly the same way earlier versions were, except some of the holes were plugged. No downgrading or modified firmware is required.


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## theinkfox (Mar 27, 2011)

Runefox said:


> 4.3 is homebrewable in pretty much exactly the same way earlier versions were, except some of the holes were plugged. No downgrading or modified firmware is required.


 
well then it's me who is outdated
the way of how i hacked the wii of my niece, was the way i said earlier


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## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 27, 2011)

theinkfox said:


> it could be because all of you are still using the 4.2U version
> in europe and latinamerica we are using 4.3E version
> 
> about the legal thing, maybe we are talking about the same but in diferent ways, becuase it's a very thin line between legal and ilegal in this kind of things, just look at sony and their new firmware politics


 
Nintendo really don't care about homebrewers who don't pirate. Sadly this is an overwhelming minority of modders, most do pirate it, which is why Nintendo attempts to slip fixes in through updates. And new versions of the Wii Menu are released to ALL regions within 24 hours of each other. If there's a 4.3E, there's definitely a 4.3U.

For the 4.3 Update, all they did was permanently render the Bannerbomb useless, just as 4.0 did for the Twilight Hack.
You can still use Smash Stack (there's a version for PAL now too), Indiana Pwns, Bathaxx, Return of the Jodi, or Yu-Gi-OWNED! to install the Homebrew Channel.


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## net-cat (Mar 27, 2011)

As far as the rules of this forum are concerned, homebrew and console hacking are fine. Piracy is not. It's the same sort of thing as with emulators. Discussion of emulators, setting them up, using them is all fine. Asking where to get ROMz and ISOz is not.

Note that I am just the tech monkey. If a moderator comes in and decides something different, I'll defer to that. But this is what the view has traditionally been.

As for my Wii, I'm still using 4.2U. I'll keep it there until I need to upgrade it for whatever reason. (I don't own any of the games required to exploit 4.3.)



Runefox said:


> Now, if someone were to, say, take Nintendo's stock firmware and *decompile* it, then yes, that would be copyright infringement.


Not true. Disassembly is a perfectly legitimate research tool. Now, if you were to sell or distribute a product based on the disassembled code, _that_ would be copyright infringement. (And there are ways around that.)


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## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 27, 2011)

At any rate, does anyone else use homebrew on their Wii or mod it for legal purposes?

I take it based on your posts that you do, Runefox?


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## Dr. Durr (Mar 27, 2011)

Grycho said:


> Isn't console modding illegal and not to be discussed in BnB or TFL?


 
Fair Use.
You buy, you do what you want with it.

Hatchling, I'd start by modifying the conf for DOSBox to instantly load SIMCity.


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## HatchlingByHeart (Mar 27, 2011)

But.. but.. but...... I don't have simcity... o_o

At any rate, I'm already making Super Smash Bros. Brawl Redux (a collab effort to make the first widely available mod that does not modify gameplay and hence remaining online compatible with vanilla Brawl) and New Super Mario Bros. Wii Redux (new levels... insanely DICK levels...).

Also I'm writing a BRSTM player for Winamp.


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## net-cat (Mar 28, 2011)

HatchlingByHeart said:


> (new levels... insanely DICK levels...)


Nintendo hard!


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## Dr. Durr (Mar 30, 2011)

HatchlingByHeart said:


> But.. but.. but...... I don't have simcity... o_o


 
I think abandonware can be downloaded free, I'll have to check.
I also ported my copy of SimHealth, on PSP, and Wii.


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## SilFerWolf (Mar 31, 2011)

I use this site for everything. 

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Main_Page

Easy instructions and apps for your wii.

If you want to backup your wii games to a hard-drive though, I am not very good at explaining how to do that. I will learn soon, though.


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## net-cat (Mar 31, 2011)

Dr. Durr said:


> I think abandonware can be downloaded free, I'll have to check.


That's still piracy.


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## Dr. Durr (Mar 31, 2011)

net-cat said:


> That's still piracy.


Ah, I see......
Then thank god for Maxis making the whole game open source.


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## ~secret~ (Mar 31, 2011)

net-cat said:


> Nintendo hard!


 
Crap, I'm getting Ninja Gaiden flashbacks :/

I have to lie down now.


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## net-cat (Apr 1, 2011)

Dr. Durr said:


> Ah, I see......
> Then thank god for Maxis making the whole game open source.


Indeed.

Games that have been explicitly released by their copyright holders, of course, are not included in the "that's still piracy" statement.


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