# De-furring work?



## Unsilenced (Aug 2, 2015)

So, as I've been getting further into making short stories about some of the character's I've made, I've become more and more aware of a simple fact: 

Furries sound stupid in writing.  

Now, my characters are furries. They all started that way, and that is how I picture them. From the first time they entered my head they've been various types of anthropomorphic animals, but should I really be trying to keep them that way? I cannot for the life of me imagine writing a serious, dramatic work where the characters are actually furries, and while I'm sure people in the furry fandom would be ok reading sci-fi stories about animal people that are never really explained, any non-furry is going to just see it as a completely pointless and confusing detail. That's a pretty serious limitation of potential audience, and plus plus there are people like me who, despite liking and even preferring furries in art, just don't "get" them in writing.  



So, when it comes to writing, I see two basic ways around it. The first is to change the characters from being specific, from-Earth species to all being one single alien race. Probably a blatant furbait race, because I'm still a furfag at heart, but they would be a species of their own with logical, consistent biology and an evolutionary history that makes some sort of sense. They might bear resemblance to one or more species from Earth, and they might have different sub-species that have distinctive features, but they would never be described as matching a real species because they would have no evolutionary connection to life on Earth. 


The other way around it is, of course, to just make human 'versions' of my characters, and to describe them as humans in my writing. This probably maximizes my potential readership and interest, since nobody's going to be chased off by the fact that apparently a dog is talking in the middle of a scene and none of the other characters seem to care, and it reduces significantly the amount of exposition and explanation at the start of every story.  This also however reduces my interest in their visual design. I could write descriptions for how most of my characters would look as humans, and I think people would like them, but drawing them just wouldn't be as interesting to me, nor would I be as good at it. 

Anyone else have similar problems? What did you do?


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## Byron (Aug 2, 2015)

Creating art specifically so that others will approve of it is a waste of effort.

Just write what you like. Why else write?


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## Bronx23 (Aug 2, 2015)

Byron said:


> Creating art specifically so that others will approve of it is a waste of effort.
> 
> Just write what you like. Why else write?


This.


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## Maugryph (Aug 2, 2015)

What works best for the story? Are you characters more interesting a humans or furries? Does making them furry add anything to the story?

I would say do what you think works best for telling your story.


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## Wolf-Man-Kyle (Aug 2, 2015)

Write how you want, if it sounds stupid to you, fix it, but don't change it for an audience. If you like it, write it.


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## SirRob (Aug 2, 2015)

I heard that in general, if you want to get your work published, you should keep the characters human. The only reason you'd want anything else is if it contributes greatly to the story; the theme, the characterization, etc. Of course, if you're not concerned about getting it published, then you should just do your own thing. 

I disagree somewhat with Byron- I can't disagree completely, because he's commenting on an extreme that doesn't really apply here (writing for the specific purpose of pleasing others). But I'd like to give my opinion on that, anyway. I think writing is something that should be shared! You can make people really happy by sharing your stories, and by getting feedback on it, you can improve your writing. To me, it's an even bigger wasted effort if you went into the other extreme, and only kept your stories to yourself.


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## Sonlir (Aug 2, 2015)

Byron said:


> Creating art specifically so that others will approve of it is a waste of effort.
> 
> Just write what you like. Why else write?


I would agree with you unless you're really hoping you can make money off it someday, but hey label it fantasy add a bunch of wizards and suddenly you might be able to pass off furries in a book as not weird.


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## Unsilenced (Aug 2, 2015)

Byron said:


> Creating art specifically so that others will approve of it is a waste of effort.
> 
> Just write what you like. Why else write?



There's practical limitations to that. There's a reason why I look for editors, after all. I'm happiest when my work is coherent, polished, and when others enjoy reading it. To this end, making the characters human is probably the best solution, since it's the cleanest and there's nothing in the plot that /requires/ the characters to be non-human. It's hard sci-fi setting, by the way, so wizards did not make people furry.

I also draw the characters, however, and from a drawing perspective I prefer furries. If my art improves enough, I may want to make a comic in the setting, in which case I'm not going to like the human versions of the characters as much.

Part of the problem is I don't know how high I'm aiming with this, but I'd like to make stories that people beyond maybe 2-3 friends on FA will want to read. Even if I'm not publishing it or trying to make money off of it, outright furry characters is a pretty limiting factor in terms of the audience, and while aliens might be a good compromise between my visual tastes and and a 'cleaner' narrative, it might still fail on the latter for many readers.


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## Byron (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm not saying you should disregard feedback and keep your stories all to yourself.

There's this Zen koan called "The First Principle." In it, this pupil is criticizing his master's calligraphy. The master writes the same thing over 80 times, but it's never good enough for the pupil. Finally, the pupil leaves the room and the master does one more without him watching. The pupil comes back and calls that one perfect.

All I wanted to say is that we're at our best when we aren't preoccupied with what others think. Make something you like without regard to what other people want, and others will probably like it because it'll be your best.


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## Talinn (Aug 2, 2015)

I wouldn't be overly concerned about it, really. People have written fairly serious, dramatic (AND SFW!) anthropomorphic works that have been published before-Garry Kilworth, Brian Jacques, and Juan Canales come to mind off the top of my head. Getting traditionally published has been, is, and always will be difficult regardless of what you write about-Brandon Sanderson, for example, wrote *ten *novels before finally getting *one *published if I remember correctly-so you should write what you want. Worst comes to worst, you can always self-publish or pitch it to a smaller publisher looking for something unique, which profound, non-porno anthro works are. I'm actually writing an illustrated work of that nature (see below) that is a mixture of science fiction and fantasy with a real reason for the existence of furry characters that I plan to get it professionally edited on my own dime. Not sure which route I will go just yet, but I'm enjoying writing the story, and worst comes to worst it can just be used for an MFA application if traditional or self-publishing doesn't pan out.


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## Conker (Aug 2, 2015)

First, it should be noted that Image Comics are currently publishing a series called _The Autumnlands: Tooth and Claw _which is filled with anthro characters. It's selling well, from my understanding, so having a full cast of furry characters isn't as damning as you might think.

That being said, it's certainly true that humans are going to sell better. I've been trying to land an agent for my novel, which is filled with anthros, and the agents that do send personalized rejection letters all wish me luck and figure someone out there will market what i have, but it just isn't for them. I can't help but think that the anthro characters are to blame for that. That HAS to be a hard sell.

So if you can switch your characters to humans, then I say go for it. At least, if your intent is to get published. If you're just going to post these on DA or FA or something, then leave them as is.

Though do keep in mind that you should have narrative reasons for keeping them as anthro's. It's a fun aesthetic, but it has to exist on more than just that. I'ts why I can't flip all my characters to humans. The whole "they're animals" is too engrained in the world and the main plot. Kit's story wouldn't make any sense if he were a human.


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## Unsilenced (Aug 2, 2015)

Well, there's a reason I'm not making a full-out novel about these characters or locations yet. I don't have enough experience with story structure for one thing, but also it would be a long way to go to find out that nobody was really interested. My short term goal is a series of loosely connected short stories, the first of which is here, though I've already reached the point of deciding I don't like it anymore, hopefully a symptom of being on a steep portion of the learning curve. It was starting work on a second story that made me wonder if having characters be furries made sense, as I realized just how bizzare the scene would sound to anyone who wasn't expecting furries. 


I have other settings and characters, including some that have in-universe explanations for furries that are vital to the plot, but this sci-fi setting has been a recurring fixation of mine, and one I think could become something good if I can manage to give it the right treatment.



Conker said:


> First, it should be noted that Image Comics are currently publishing a series called _The Autumnlands: Tooth and Claw _which is filled with anthro characters. It's selling well, from my understanding, so having a full cast of furry characters isn't as damning as you might think.
> 
> That being said, it's certainly true that humans are going to sell better. I've been trying to land an agent for my novel, which is filled with anthros, and the agents that do send personalized rejection letters all wish me luck and figure someone out there will market what i have, but it just isn't for them. I can't help but think that the anthro characters are to blame for that. That HAS to be a hard sell.
> 
> ...



Comics are another story, in my opinion. I can think of plenty of good, furry web-comics that could just as well feature humans. They might lose some of their charm, and occasional gags might not work anymore, but the overall premise could function with humans (or 'standard' fantasy races, etc.) If I were making a comic (and I really would love to, honestly. Maybe my art skills will develop to the point where that's practical some day), I wouldn't be nearly as concerned with the idea of the characters being furries. It doesn't take any extra time for the reader to process it in a visual medium. In written form meanwhile people are going to be thinking human until you say otherwise, and may end up thinking of the characters as humans anyways.


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## Erzyal (Aug 5, 2015)

I would have to disagree. If done right I think a furry story could be fine. There is no need to change anything. Granted a book where all the characters are furry just because might sound silly but one where that is integral to the plot might work.


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## Conker (Aug 5, 2015)

Unsilenced said:


> In written form meanwhile people are going to be thinking human until you say otherwise, and may end up thinking of the characters as humans anyways.


I'm not sure if that's really true. If you establish early on that everyone is an animal person, I think people will get the hint that everyone is an animal person 

Worked with Redwall anyways.


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## Unsilenced (Aug 6, 2015)

Erzyal said:


> I would have to disagree. If done right I think a furry story could be fine. There is no need to change anything. Granted a book where all the characters are furry just because might sound silly but one where that is integral to the plot might work.



I'm talking about a setting where characters could pretty easily be humans without major upset to the plot. Some personality traits and actions might seem a little strange, but most things could be substituted with more human-friendly actions that don't require teeth, tails, claws, etc. 

It's the visual element that makes it hard for me. I mean, I draw furries. They're what I know how to and like to draw. They're also how I conceive of and imagine these characters. I can kind of roughly guess things like the hair cuts, skin colors and facial features of some of the characters, but others just seem really weird as humans to me since they act in distinctly inhuman ways. Maybe I should try drawing them that way just to see what I come up with.


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## Conker (Aug 6, 2015)

Unsilenced said:


> I'm talking about a setting where characters could pretty easily be humans without major upset to the plot. Some personality traits and actions might seem a little strange, but most things could be substituted with more human-friendly actions that don't require teeth, tails, claws, etc.
> 
> It's the visual element that makes it hard for me. I mean, I draw furries. They're what I know how to and like to draw. They're also how I conceive of and imagine these characters. I can kind of roughly guess things like the hair cuts, skin colors and facial features of some of the characters, but others just seem really weird as humans to me since they act in distinctly inhuman ways. Maybe I should try drawing them that way just to see what I come up with.


If it really is just a style thing, I say get rid of the furry aesthetic.


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