# Ever Dealt With Toxic Artists/Commisioners?



## Catolo (Nov 7, 2017)

This question always goes through my head at some point when seeing drawings. Have any of you artist or buyers dealt with this?


----------



## -..Legacy..- (Nov 7, 2017)

Nope, not here. It's always been a super-friendly interaction.


----------



## Yakamaru (Nov 7, 2017)

Personally I've not dealt with it. Every artist I've ever talked with and commissioned(and received request art from) have always been fun to talk with not to mention friendly.


----------



## Fuzzylumkin (Nov 8, 2017)

Ive talked to furry artists who have gone to the point of restraining orders from commissions gone bad, but ive only heard of it getting that bad once. I'm sure it happens a lot though with lack of patience


----------



## Lexiand (Nov 8, 2017)

Nope, not yet.


----------



## Tenshio (Nov 9, 2017)

Earlier this year I had one client come up with excuse after excuse as to why he couldn't pay me for the commission to the point of absurdity.  He even said he was ready and able to pay me on, if I recall correctly, 3 different occasions followed by weeklong periods of silence, broken by me checking up on him...but that just led to more excuses.  He claimed his bank account was hacked, he lost my paypal address 3 times, even though it was right there in the note history, new commissions were showing up in his favorites that were clearly done for him and lastly, he claimed that he couldn't pay because of "the hurricane" without specifying which one...and it was about 2 days after Irma touched ground in Florida, which was long after Harvey did his damage in Texas...so, it sounded like pure horse hockey to me.  Needless to say he didn't ever actually pay.

And last but not least; Once upon a long time ago, I dealt with a slightly less (albeit still) annoying client was years and years ago when I opened up commissions for music for the first time.  Unfortunately, I didn't set up guidelines to protect myself from toxicity back then because naive me didn't think of it.  I had someone ask me to do an instrumental cover of a theme song, and I told him I should be able to have it done within a week.  Well after a week passed, he started bombarding me with messages demanding why I haven't finished it by the deadline...of course this was just his interpretation of what I said, but I definitely did not mention anything about a deadline or give a guarantee it would be done by then...I simply suggested it might be, but I guess some people take that super literally... -rolls eyes-

ANYWAY...I'm glad to say that every other client I've had has been fantastic...even though it's been very slow these past few months.  I at least have a couple of regulars who have big projects for me to collaborate with them on.


----------



## Reserved_Krolik (Nov 9, 2017)

I've had issues with commissioners before, but not on this site, thankfully. I still look for work on DeviantArt, but to be honest, their job board is a joke. Luckily, I haven't had non payment issues in a while, mostly it's been commissioners trying to cancel out suddenly, or changing the piece entirely in the inking/coloring stage.


----------



## narutogod123 (Nov 10, 2017)

The one time I had a problem with a commissioner is that they didn't pay me when I asked, other than that I haven't had any other problems. These days I just want more commissioners.


----------



## Kebechet (Nov 10, 2017)

I've had one person here fail to pay me after promising they would. It actually led to me leaving the community for a while, because this was someone I knew personally, who I thought was my friend...and he screwed me over hard. 

In the past I've had problems with other people from other places, but that was the worst. The others were mostly just flakes from Craigslist. 
The other sorts of issues I've had with furry-related commissioners mainly revolved around people trying to push me to draw things I wasn't comfortable with, and/or they tried to get me to toss in all of these freebies with the commission they paid for... like suddenly wanting a background, and not being willing to pay extra for it, or wanting multiple characters without wanting to pay extra for the extra work.

Outside of the first example, I haven't had anything "toxic" happen... but these days I've changed the way I do work, which keeps me safer. 
For example, I ask for half of the money up front, and half on completion. While I provide previews of the work I'm doing from start to finish, those previews aren't high resolution. It gives plenty of detail so that the client can see how everything looks, but the DPI being low means they aren't suitable for prints. Clients only get the high res files once they've approved the completed artwork, and send the final payment. 

It might seem a little convoluted, but I find it makes both the artist and commissioner trust each other more, and keeps both sides happy as a result.


----------



## ChocolateCoins (Nov 11, 2017)

Ive had 2 people not pay me, and one DM me every hour to see if their commission was done yet when I had just gotten the commission that day. I now heavily watermark sketches  and I don't complete commissions unless theyre paid for.


----------



## KrissySempaiArt (Nov 13, 2017)

Ive had a couple people not be “rude” but
They basically tried to con me into free art
And when they knew i wasnt gonna fall for it , either act very passive aggressive or tell me
“ Oh i have a friend who will do this cheaper”
I mean , go support your friend fam Im all for it , but im not spendin my free time on someone who isnt a friend or just wants free art cuse they got 200 no’s before this . Nobody has been outright rude though , i had someone walk out cuse they wanted to just pay in points but
Told me they were gonna pay money beforehand
Got the sketch and they tried to say some sob story about how they only have points because idk reasons ?
But thankfully again , nobody who was rude . Ive commissioned a few people on my end but never had a rude artist towards me whoch is awesome cuse i have no idea what id do if thatd happen lol


----------



## -..Legacy..- (Nov 13, 2017)

KrissySempaiArt said:


> Ive had a couple people not be “rude” but
> They basically tried to con me into free art
> And when they knew i wasnt gonna fall for it , either act very passive aggressive or tell me
> “ Oh i have a friend who will do this cheaper”
> ...



I've certainly heard about people being passive-aggressive about handouts, from multiple sources.  It's a shame professional panhandling exists in this place.


----------



## KrissySempaiArt (Nov 13, 2017)

-..Legacy..- said:


> I've certainly heard about people being passive-aggressive about handouts, from multiple sources.  It's a shame professional panhandling exists in this place.


Its quite a pain . I think im fairly genuine and nice towards everyone and try to always assume the best
But 
Ive worked retail long to smell when someones tryna scam me lol
I keep all their unfinished commission in a folder so if they ever come back , ill know lol . I do give oit free art to followers and friends occasionally when im feeling jolly or just love someones oc but
These people didnt even know my ocs or anythimf , just wanted to con me lol


----------



## Crimcyan (Nov 13, 2017)

Yes this one person I asked way over a month ago (probably 5 months) and they still havnt done it. And each time i asked them they just offer me free art for taking long time, but they never do that art. 

Jk I just wanted to rip on my friend, she's a splatoon artist on amino and she's starting to get very popular with trades and commission so I keep telling her to put down my commissions so she can work on doing trades and such for amino.


----------



## DoeDog (Nov 14, 2017)

Never had terrible commissioners like that or stalkers, honestly i been very lucky and the community in general treats me well, but who knows maybe If I were more widely known that perspective could change.


----------



## tiredbirb (Nov 14, 2017)

My issues have mostly been elsewhere other than FC -  artists who have not looked at refs and then told me I didn't have ref images despite them being available. One artist drawing my character a completely different species (drawing them a plain cat when they were a lion) and getting upset when I asked if they could change it, saying I needed to pay for a change despite it being stated in writing and text and going on a tangent in a discord which was filled with a lot of my friends about how awful I was being when I'd said maybe two sentences since colour and species looked as though they hadn't more than glanced at for a very expensive piece of art...

In the end they didn't fix the problem and started doing some weird vagueposting thing on tumblr instead. This is why I stick to repeat comming a lot of the same artists lol


----------



## LuxerHusku (Nov 15, 2017)

Oh boy, story time!

FWA 2016. The year when I wanted to purchase a fursuit head but didn't know where to start but at a convention. I thought it would better to get information and understatement from there and BOOM! Entering my very first convention.

Paid no attention to anyone until the day the Artist Den was open. I can across to this one maker who told me about the press of making the suiting and shipping them. We've talked for quite some time and she let me have one of those foam templates. Unfortunately for me, I have no ideas on how to make a head, so I asked another maker for help and commissioned $750 for the head to be made. Gave her my refs and moved on.

This was back during March last year. In April, she contacted me and said she'll get the head done by May. So I wanted around May and had another delay, June and a WIP photo. June cane in and nothong. Then, another email pop up and it was delayed again to Auguest. August came by, another delay, up to December. December hits, another delay. 

I got so tired. I had to research the maker I commissioned it turns out, that she was labeled in an Artist Beware post not too long ago. Saying she scams people and switches fursona and business name. And the futsuits themselves are good, but not finished. I was upset and demanded a refund, but she keeps playing the victim and telling every one that I'm harassing her and spreading lies. 

We've lived in the same state, I demanded my refund back and if she refused, I can press charges against her and send her to court. So far it's kinda working. I'm getting my refund finally. I hope o get my refund this year. If not....


----------



## WolfeyeOfIowa (Nov 18, 2017)

tiredbirb said:


> My issues have mostly been elsewhere other than FC -  artists who have not looked at refs and then told me I didn't have ref images despite them being available. One artist drawing my character a completely different species (drawing them a plain cat when they were a lion) and getting upset when I asked if they could change it, saying I needed to pay for a change despite it being stated in writing and text and going on a tangent in a discord which was filled with a lot of my friends about how awful I was being when I'd said maybe two sentences since colour and species looked as though they hadn't more than glanced at for a very expensive piece of art...
> 
> In the end they didn't fix the problem and started doing some weird vagueposting thing on tumblr instead. This is why I stick to repeat comming a lot of the same artists lol



I just had a similar experience. I wanted my character, an African Hunting Dog drawn. It's NOT a dog. but that's what I was given for my money. Still seeking an artist who can drawn one.


----------



## redfox_81 (Nov 22, 2017)

ChocolateCoins said:


> Ive had 2 people not pay me, and one DM me every hour to see if their commission was done yet when I had just gotten the commission that day. I now heavily watermark sketches  and I don't complete commissions unless theyre paid for.



Wow. Just...wow. I hope you put them straight to the bottom of your queue!


----------



## silveredgreen (Nov 22, 2017)

I haven't had any downright horrible experiences but i did have a couple people come to me asking for a commission, give me their refs and a description of what they wanted, and then just... not pay me. I gave em my PayPal and they said they'd pay within the week. Never happened, so i never started their orders. Both happened on Furry Amino.

Never had any bad experiences ordering. A few orders i have yet to recieve and one i actually recieved but the sketch i got for approval was absolute shit in quality. It was a photo in low resolution, pretty clearly taken at night. I could just barely make out the sketch lines.


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 23, 2017)

I have three different bad experiences with commissions I bought.

Firstly, I commissioned someone to draw one of my characters, because a friend recommended them to me and their drawing of my friend's character was really good.
At the time the character I wanted art of didn't have many clothing options so I told the artist to "draw him in whatever as long as it's dark." That was a mistake.

They ended up drawing a super "femboy" looking version with very thick thighs, really short shorts, stockings and a flirtatious pose.
The character in question was very thin and not flirty/promiscuous at all.
I don't like confrontation so I didn't ask for a refund... I don't even know if they would give one consider they completed it.
But at least it was removed from their gallery.

A similar thing happened again with a different artist. This time I made sure to give them specific clothing references.
Same thing happened, though. Flirty pose and revealing clothing. Ugh.

But the worst commission I ever got was when someone didn't even look at the reference. I commissioned someone for an icon on DA and gave them a reference.
It was of my sona, who has ashen skin, white hair, and blue eyes. Every image I supplied shows him with blue eyes, sometimes with red in the center, and I had extra info written on my toyhouse explaining the details of my character in full.

The end result proved they probably didn't even look at my reference. The finished icon was of a pure white cat with pink eyes. It didn't look like my character at all, not just the colors were wrong, but the shape and everything. They also gave it orange-peach colored inner ears when my character has grayish-pinkish inner ears.
I really don't know where they got the "white cat with pink eyes" idea from. Maybe because they only saw the word "albino" and thought that's what albino felines look like (fact: albino cats don't have pink eyes, like humans they have blue.)

The weird thing is I had commissioned them in the past with a different character, and that turned out great. It was obviously laziness this time which is actually kind of insulting to me.
Once again I didn't say anything. Actually, I couldn't because they disabled comments on the submission :/


----------



## Lexiand (Nov 23, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> Artist just can't draw my main OC right, ever. I have tried sooo many times to get art of her and I've just given up at this point. Aha.
> 
> this is her.
> 
> ...




Did the forum glitched out for you? because you posted like 4 of the same thing.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 23, 2017)

SveltColt said:


> Did the forum glitched out for you? because you posted like 4 of the same thing.


YES IT DID, i'll delete them now! Oh god the shame!  Sorry about that!


----------



## W00lies (Nov 23, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> Artist just can't draw my main OC right, ever. I have tried sooo many times to get art of her and I've just given up at this point. Aha.
> 
> this is her.
> 
> ...


Do you mind me asking why you see those as failed attempts? I can see in some cases maybe she is out of character if you compare them to your work but other than that it just looks like her drawn into different styles.  :0


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 23, 2017)

W00lies said:


> Do you mind me asking why you see those as failed attempts? I can see in some cases maybe she is out of character if you compare them to your work but other than that it just looks like her drawn into different styles.  :0


Because some of them are close but are missing out on her key characteristics. >.<
You have any idea how many anime girls there are with orange hair?
Sometimes they draw her ears short and pointy, sometimes they draw the dress wrong, sometimes they miss her claws/fangs/cat eyes. Some people color her skin orange. ;v;

I'm very specific when it comes to how she looks. 
Especially since i've had her for a good thirteen years. 
And it's such a simple design I have no idea how people can't figure her out. ;c;

Everyone draws her hair wrong, she has almost a sailor moon/sesshomaru part in her bangs. In the middle of her forehead. I have no idea why that's so hard to get drawn.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 23, 2017)

Artist just can't draw my main OC right, ever. I have tried sooo many times to get art of her and I've just given up at this point. Aha.

this is her.


Spoiler: large picture












And here is all the failed attempts. They still look beautiful in their own way but they don't look like her enough to me.


Spoiler: many images







































I'm leaving this one here since i accidently deleted the original post. ;v;


----------



## W00lies (Nov 23, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> Because some of them are close but are missing out on her key characteristics. >.<
> You have any idea how many anime girls there are with orange hair?
> Sometimes they draw her ears short and pointy, sometimes they draw the dress wrong, sometimes they miss her claws/fangs/cat eyes. Some people color her skin orange. ;v;
> 
> ...


Damn! Yeah I was looking at them again and now that you mention it I kinda see what you mean. And the first picture her left forearm (our right) is behind the skirt (wrong layer?) but if it's meant to be between her legs that wouldn't be anatomically correct, her body would be twisted the other way in that pose... try it! :x

Ah, I hadn't noticed the claws until you pointed them out. As for the eyes I think the angle might be misleading since in the(edit: I meant to say *some *anime style) anime style they flatten the pupil when it's shown in certain angles. Have you told all those artists about those details as well?


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 23, 2017)

W00lies said:


> Damn! Yeah I was looking at them again and now that you mention it I kinda see what you mean. And the first picture her left forearm (our right) is behind the skirt (wrong layer?) but if it's meant to be between her legs that wouldn't be anatomically correct, her body would be twisted the other way in that pose... try it! :x
> 
> Ah, I hadn't noticed the claws until you pointed them out. As for the eyes I think the angle might be misleading since in the anime style they flatten the pupil when it's shown in certain angles. Have you told all those artists about those details as well?


Yep, these were my ref pictures for her.


Spoiler: large images.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 23, 2017)

W00lies said:


> Damn! Yeah I was looking at them again and now that you mention it I kinda see what you mean. And the first picture her left forearm (our right) is behind the skirt (wrong layer?) but if it's meant to be between her legs that wouldn't be anatomically correct, her body would be twisted the other way in that pose... try it! :x
> 
> Ah, I hadn't noticed the claws until you pointed them out. As for the eyes I think the angle might be misleading since in the(edit: I meant to say *some *anime style) anime style they flatten the pupil when it's shown in certain angles. Have you told all those artists about those details as well?


As for the first one, it has many things wrong with it. 
She's orange, her ears are too high on her head, her arm is going through a portal. Her wings look like they won't fly, and her hair/bangs are done wrong.

Like it's done well, and colored really nice, but there's also a lot of mistakes. >.<


----------



## W00lies (Nov 23, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> Yep, these were my ref pictures for her.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: large images.


oh wow okay, those are pretty straight forward. You even show how you DON'T want the ears to look. :x
I'm guessing some of these were trade and some commissions, right? Your character is already visually fleshed out to your standards, I wouldn't see the drive to add more details than needed.


----------



## W00lies (Nov 23, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> As for the first one, it has many things wrong with it.
> She's orange, her ears are too high on her head, her arm is going through a portal. Her wings look like they won't fly, and her hair/bangs are done wrong.
> 
> Like it's done well, and colored really nice, but there's also a lot of mistakes. >.<


Was that one a commission? did they not show you a WIP or a sketch first?


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 23, 2017)

W00lies said:


> oh wow okay, those are pretty straight forward. You even show how you DON'T want the ears to look. :x
> I'm guessing some of these were trade and some commissions, right? Your character is already visually fleshed out to your standards, I wouldn't see the drive to add more details than needed.
> 
> 
> Was that one a commission? did they not show you a WIP or a sketch first?



Most of them were commissions, but yea a few of them were trades. n.n


It was a commission, and no, they did not. Otherwise I would have asked her to be smiling or something. xD

I got it a looooong time ago though. I'm pretty sure I follow her on DA, I might try to commission again sometime.
I found her, she improved her stuff quite a lot but it's also a little over my budget.

Nijiiru on DeviantArt

I love her lineart though. ;v; hnnngg


----------



## W00lies (Nov 23, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> Most of them were commissions, but yea a few of them were trades. n.n
> 
> 
> It was a commission, and no, they did not. Otherwise I would have asked her to be smiling or something. xD
> ...


Oh wow! Her work is really pristine! I only saw some prices in the journal with $100 for a full body!! 
I can see why  you're considering her tho hehe


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 24, 2017)

W00lies said:


> Oh wow! Her work is really pristine! I only saw some prices in the journal with $100 for a full body!!
> I can see why  you're considering her tho hehe


Yea, just a little nervous that she might not get her drawn right and i'd rather not be on an artist's bad side. xD


----------



## Kezi Avdiivka (Nov 24, 2017)

Got into a massive, and I mean MASSIVE feud with an artist friend of mine.

7 years of being comrades down the drain. Blocked her and haven't looked back.

Such is life


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Nov 24, 2017)

In business aspect? Just those artist who will snap if you ask for updates or make delayes due to unforseen life situations

On the otherside, There is this filipino furry artist who would incite drama to any filipino artists who draws better than him.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Nov 24, 2017)

There are some people who I know I do not want to deal with in a business relationship because of the behavior or attitude I've seen them display, but overall I've been blessed with great commissioners and commission artists, so far.



Inkblooded said:


> I really don't know where they got the "white cat with pink eyes" idea from. Maybe because they only saw the word "albino" and thought that's what albino felines look like (fact: albino cats don't have pink eyes, like humans they have blue.)


This took me literally like a minute of Googling to find: www.lovemeow.com: Albino Domestic and Wild Cats
Pink eyes, not blue. Now, you can give your character whatever degree of albinism you wish, so I'm not saying you need to make any changes to them, and most or all semi-albinistic colorations (such as pointed cats) will have blue eyes, but your statement about albino felines is wrong. I believe human albinism is most often (technically) incomplete, hence the blue eyes, though the low pigmentation can still result in a pink/red tinge, particularly in some light conditions.



Yvvki said:


> Because some of them are close but are missing out on her key characteristics. >.<
> You have any idea how many anime girls there are with orange hair?
> Sometimes they draw her ears short and pointy, sometimes they draw the dress wrong, sometimes they miss her claws/fangs/cat eyes. Some people color her skin orange. ;v;
> [...]
> Everyone draws her hair wrong, she has almost a sailor moon/sesshomaru part in her bangs. In the middle of her forehead. I have no idea why that's so hard to get drawn.


If you don't already have them, this seems like the type of situation that calls for adding notes to your ref sheet. I personally love working with annotated ref sheets; they let me know what details the character owner considers most important for the character, and help me make sure I get details I might otherwise miss or unwittingly misinterpret right. As an example, this is my ponysona ref, which includes text to point out details that are important and/or often get missed and/or are easy to misunderstand.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 24, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> There are some people who I know I do not want to deal with in a business relationship because of the behavior or attitude I've seen them display, but overall I've been blessed with great commissioners and commission artists, so far.
> 
> 
> This took me literally like a minute of Googling to find: www.lovemeow.com: Albino Domestic and Wild Cats
> ...


I showed the references I used, scroll up a little for those. 
☆


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 24, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> This took me literally like a minute of Googling to find: www.lovemeow.com: Albino Domestic and Wild Cats
> Pink eyes, not blue. Now, you can give your character whatever degree of albinism you wish, so I'm not saying you need to make any changes to them, and most or all semi-albinistic colorations (such as pointed cats) will have blue eyes, but your statement about albino felines is wrong. I believe human albinism is most often (technically) incomplete, hence the blue eyes, though the low pigmentation can still result in a pink/red tinge, particularly in some light conditions.



Hello, I actually have albinism (OCA1- meaning no pigment, not "incomplete" at all) so I know what I am talking about.
In fact, the first picture on the page looks like an albino cat named Pangur who seems to be somewhat well known. If you google "Pangur and Grim" you will find the blog about these cats and pictures of them. Pangur has blue-violet eyes.

While human and cat eyes can appear reddish or pinkish in certain light (my own pupils appear red when light is shine into them) the iris color of humans and cats is blue. This is not "incomplete albinism," blue eyes occur in many animals because of the way eye pigment works.
True red or pink eyes without y blue are typically found in smaller animals like rodents, snakes, and some (but not all) birds.

Why do all siamese cats have blue (and often crossed) eyes? They have a form of albinism. Siamese cats have a gene where pigment only develops on cooler parts of the body, but their eyes stay without pigment.

I have a lot of experience with cats, I have mey albino cats, and I know my own genetic condition. If albino cat eyes were pink I would've seen a cat with pink eyes. It was kind of rude of you to post a random, unsourced, not even a scientific article to "prove me wrong" on something I actually have myself. Especially because if you did any further googling you would find that is wrong. I know you probably didn't know that, because some people make albino characters without having albinism or even fully understanding it, but if I appear to be passionate about people portraying it right... isn't that a hint?

Besides, this isn't even about albino cats, this is about my character. My character has blue eyes and they gave it pink. Even if they drew an albino mouse, which does actually have pinkish eyes, it would still be wrong because my character isn't a mouse either.


----------



## fralea (Nov 24, 2017)

Inkblooded said:


> -





Yvvki said:


> -



Yvvki and Inkblooded, did you ask the artists to fix the mistakes and they said no?? Things like pink eyes instead of blue and lack of claws are very straightforward its either right or wrong, not a style thing.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 24, 2017)

fralea said:


> Yvvki and Inkblooded, did you ask the artists to fix the mistakes and they said no?? Things like pink eyes instead of blue and lack of claws are very straightforward its either right or wrong, not a style thing.


I honestly have no idea why you quoted me as well. I encuraged him to ask the artists for a WIP to correct the colors.


----------



## fralea (Nov 24, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> I honestly have no idea why you quoted me as well. I encuraged him to ask the artists for a WIP to correct the colors.



??? I quoted you because you just spent several posts discussing how your character is always drawn wrong in commissions. I do not know if ink's character has claws, I mentioned that because its one of the things you specifically mentioned gets left off of your character and was on your ref sheet.


----------



## quoting_mungo (Nov 25, 2017)

Inkblooded said:


> If you google "Pangur and Grim" you will find the blog about these cats and pictures of them. Pangur has blue-violet eyes.


I'll buy violet, but blue-violet is seriously stretching it. Violet-pink is a lot closer to what I'm seeing in the photos that actually show Pangur's eye color well on their owner's Tumblr. 



Inkblooded said:


> I have a lot of experience with cats, I have mey albino cats, and I know my own genetic condition. If albino cat eyes were pink I would've seen a cat with pink eyes. It was kind of rude of you to post a random, unsourced, not even a scientific article to "prove me wrong" on something I actually have myself. Especially because if you did any further googling you would find that is wrong. I know you probably didn't know that, because some people make albino characters without having albinism or even fully understanding it, but if I appear to be passionate about people portraying it right... isn't that a hint?


I apologize if you feel I was trying to show you up about your own condition, as that was not my intent at all. I was merely pointing out that the "fact" you provided about cats is questionable at best, and given the evidence provided I stand by that. I have owned three ragdoll cats myself within in the last ten years, two of which I took to cat shows, and I did specifically mention pointed cats as a form of semi-albinism (which last I checked was how points were generally referred to in literature) relatively commonly seen in cats. I am familiar with cat genetics, and the degree of variation in the color of pointed cats' eyes, which clearly suggests that their eyes are very definitely pigmented, if incompletely (and consistently blue, though some are so far from vivid as to look almost gray). You're passionate about human albinism. I'm passionate about cats.

You're also the one who brought up cats. You could easily have left it at "my character's eyes are blue because that's how I designed them" or whatever. If your argument for why drawing the character with pink/red eyes is bad is that albino cats have blue eyes, then that is the merit your argument gets judged on, simple as that.



Yvvki said:


> I showed the references I used, scroll up a little for those.
> ☆


My mistake; I'd missed those. You're already trying to provide annotated refs, then, though as a sidenote I will admit I don't quite understand the distinction you're trying to make with the wing anatomy, particularly if the ref sheet is provided in combination with the fullbody chibi.


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 25, 2017)

Cat eyes only look red/pink because of the lighting, the lack of eye pigment makes the blood show through. Their actual iris color, like mine, is a very light blue, because blue is the "default" color that shows when theres no actual pigment.
That's why my eyes look blue in daylight but grey under some types of indoor lighting.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 25, 2017)

fralea said:


> ??? I quoted you because you just spent several posts discussing how your character is always drawn wrong in commissions. I do not know if ink's character has claws, I mentioned that because its one of the things you specifically mentioned gets left off of your character and was on your ref sheet.


Ah gosh you had me confused. Sorry lol. Yes I would have asked them to change things but those artists had already given me a final product. They did not show me their progress.


----------



## Yvvki (Nov 25, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> I'll buy violet, but blue-violet is seriously stretching it. Violet-pink is a lot closer to what I'm seeing in the photos that actually show Pangur's eye color well on their owner's Tumblr.
> 
> 
> I apologize if you feel I was trying to show you up about your own condition, as that was not my intent at all. I was merely pointing out that the "fact" you provided about cats is questionable at best, and given the evidence provided I stand by that. I have owned three ragdoll cats myself within in the last ten years, two of which I took to cat shows, and I did specifically mention pointed cats as a form of semi-albinism (which last I checked was how points were generally referred to in literature) relatively commonly seen in cats. I am familiar with cat genetics, and the degree of variation in the color of pointed cats' eyes, which clearly suggests that their eyes are very definitely pigmented, if incompletely (and consistently blue, though some are so far from vivid as to look almost gray). You're passionate about human albinism. I'm passionate about cats.
> ...


My OC just has a weird wing shape. She doesn' have normal bird wings.  It's more like this. 


Spoiler


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 25, 2017)

fralea said:


> Yvvki and Inkblooded, did you ask the artists to fix the mistakes and they said no?? Things like pink eyes instead of blue and lack of claws are very straightforward its either right or wrong, not a style thing.



No, because I feel like they'll probably just get annoyed. And in the case of the pink eyes icon, they actually disabled comments which kind of seems unfriendly.

Besides, these were months ago. I would ask for changes if I could but its been a while so I probably cant.


----------



## fralea (Nov 25, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> Ah gosh you had me confused. Sorry lol. Yes I would have asked them to change things but those artists had already given me a final product. They did not show me their progress.





Inkblooded said:


> No, because I feel like they'll probably just get annoyed. And in the case of the pink eyes icon, they actually disabled comments which kind of seems unfriendly.
> 
> Besides, these were months ago. I would ask for changes if I could but its been a while so I probably cant.



Ok, even if an artist doesn't give you WIP* please please please ask for changes if something is wrong. That's one of my nightmares- that I accidentally forgot something or coloured it wrong, and the commissioner is silently hating the result but didn't give me the chance to fix it. If you gave adequate reference, then the artist needs to fix the drawing. If you went to a tailor and asked them to make you a pair of pants, and instead they delivered a shirt, would you not ask them to redo it?

*That being said, for you two I wouldn't work with an artist who wasn't OK with giving WIPs. There are different types of artists and different types of commissioners. Some commissioners like seeing lots of versions of their character and don't mind if it matches reference closely (body type, hair texture, colour, they can change around and the commissioner doesn't mind or even prefers it)- these people work best with artists who like doing wing-its and don't give WIPs. Other commissioners want specific details or else they feel it isn't their character. Those people work best with artists who like being given specific instructions and getting feedback during their drawing process.

But yeah I wouldn't ask for changes on old pieces now, unless you want to pay for them. Just for in the future. As for artists that disable comments... they don't send the finished piece to be approved before they post it in their gallery? Do they have notes/email disabled as well? That's just mind-boggling o__o All artists make mistakes sometimes.... like forgetting to draw glasses on is a super common one for characters that have them.


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 25, 2017)

fralea said:


> Ok, even if an artist doesn't give you WIP* please please please ask for changes if something is wrong. That's one of my nightmares- that I accidentally forgot something or coloured it wrong, and the commissioner is silently hating the result but didn't give me the chance to fix it. If you gave adequate reference, then the artist needs to fix the drawing. If you went to a tailor and asked them to make you a pair of pants, and instead they delivered a shirt, would you not ask them to redo it?
> 
> *That being said, for you two I wouldn't work with an artist who wasn't OK with giving WIPs. There are different types of artists and different types of commissioners. Some commissioners like seeing lots of versions of their character and don't mind if it matches reference closely (body type, hair texture, colour, they can change around and the commissioner doesn't mind or even prefers it)- these people work best with artists who like doing wing-its and don't give WIPs. Other commissioners want specific details or else they feel it isn't their character. Those people work best with artists who like being given specific instructions and getting feedback during their drawing process.
> 
> But yeah I wouldn't ask for changes on old pieces now, unless you want to pay for them. Just for in the future. As for artists that disable comments... they don't send the finished piece to be approved before they post it in their gallery? Do they have notes/email disabled as well? That's just mind-boggling o__o All artists make mistakes sometimes.... like forgetting to draw glasses on is a super common one for characters that have them.



Nope, they don't. Very few artists I know send a preview for approval, it's practically unheard of.
They don't have notes disabled because you can't disable notes on DA, but they may not read them, I have never tried contacting me that way.


----------



## fralea (Nov 25, 2017)

Inkblooded said:


> Nope, they don't. Very few artists I know send a preview for approval, it's practically unheard of.
> They don't have notes disabled because you can't disable notes on DA, but they may not read them, I have never tried contacting me that way.



I don't know a single artist who doesn't send the commission for approval before posting, including myself. In fact I don't know any artists who don't send WIP for approval, unless the commission is very inexpensive/wing-it type. But I also always ask when I commission if I could get a sketch/lineart preview first right as I order it. I would suggest trying notes next time at least though, its certainly worth a shot.


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 25, 2017)

fralea said:


> I don't know a single artist who doesn't send the commission for approval before posting, including myself. In fact I don't know any artists who don't send WIP for approval, unless the commission is very inexpensive/wing-it type. But I also always ask when I commission if I could get a sketch/lineart preview first right as I order it. I would suggest trying notes next time at least though, its certainly worth a shot.



What you define as "inexpensive?" Commissions I buy/sell are usually $10 worth or under. Maybe that's why. I don't have the following to sell more expensive commissions and I can't afford to buy them.


----------



## fralea (Nov 25, 2017)

Inkblooded said:


> What you define as "inexpensive?" Commissions I buy/sell are usually $10 worth or under. Maybe that's why. I don't have the following to sell more expensive commissions and I can't afford to buy them.



Yeah I'd consider that inexpensive.


----------



## Inkblooded (Nov 26, 2017)

Update
I ended up contacting both artists (even though it's been a while.) One of them has offered a refund and apologizes and the other i am still talking to, but it is going better than I expected

I guess it was worth asking after all :>


----------

