# Bethesda, Oblivion and what the hell do they have against unarmored?



## ADF (Jul 13, 2007)

Granted it is a dated subject, but one that aggravates me every time I play the game none the less.

So you are refining the skill system and unarmored is a odd one out, ok that's fine. You have removed dice rolls so unarmored dodging is not practical either, not really pleased with that but ok. But how does any of this justify Bethesda's other design decisions?

There are several perks to unarmored that are supposed to make it appealing despite having such poor protection. 

The first one is having additional carrying weight and running speed because you are not being weighed down by armor, makes sense right? It also makes sense that someone who is constantly wearing armor would be able to move and carry its weight better than someone who has only worn it for a short while. However despite this I have to question the logic of Bethesda's design team when they decided that you can get so good at wearing amour, it is like you are not wearing amour at all. In other words the amour weighs the same as air, and your character can run a marathon while wearing it. In the meantime clothing weighs the same as it always has, so your cloth outfit actually weighs more than a full suit of platemail!

Another perk of being a unarmored character was no spell efficiency hindrance, which at the beginning of the game does play a significant role in your ability as a spell caster. However this is short lived, as even before the characters amour skill is anywhere near max, they already obtain the highest spell efficiency for armored characters. They didn't have to actually get better at magic though, simply by training with the amour they somehow got around its magic hindering effects. But here is where Bethesda did well, no matter how good you get at magic and armor there will always be a spell efficiency reduction you can never get rid of. This would ensure that unarmored characters would always have that edge over armored ones in magic. Too bad that edge is a measly 5%.

5% ... 5... am I the only person who thinks this is some kind of a sick joke? At mid to end game armored characters can run as fast as unarmored characters, have equipment that weighs less than a unarmored character, have more equipment to enchant than a unarmored character, and all we have to show for it is paying 95mp to cast a spell instead of 100? I am sure that extra 5% is going to make a world of difference when we have to bring up a shield every minute or so to make up for the AC we don't have for not wearing amour.

Don't get me wrong; I like the whole mage deal, it is the reason I purchased the game in the first place. But when other players are running the same speed as you in armored tanks and are still able to fling the same spells as you with nearly the same efficiency you have to wonder why the hell play a mage in the first place? Well there are mods that attempt to address the issue, but they only add to AC depending on a skill that increases when you are hit. The whole point of being a clothing wearing character is to be a dodgy bastard that doesn't get hit! They could make a dodging mod like they did in Morrowind but without dice rolls in the game that isn't possible.

So why did they do this? Want to know my theory? Because like the whole game; it is geared towards the short attention span, instant satisfaction casual gamer who wants to be a 'everything at once' class. People complain about how absurdly fast magic levels up, so much that there are several mods to slow it down. What better way for a armored melee class to play the mighty warrior while still having magic level fast enough to be effective in combat? Unarmored mages being destroyed in the process was just a small price to pay, who role plays these days anyway? Jeez they messed this game up in order to appeal to a 'wider' audience.


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## Tarrock (Jul 13, 2007)

I got the orginal game for the 360, and plan to get shivering isles when i get a fast connection in aug.

Bethesda did really screw up on armor and magic imo. What is the point of even wearing light armor, when u can wear heavy armor and it be just as good.

What they should of done is made huge magic sets of light armor, and give it defense and atk pwr, +heal, mana reg, and +willpower(haven't played oblivian in a month or so may not be right) and give magic better bonuses. Really if u did use magic sets the only bonus was that u got more mana for the heavier spells.

They should of given the light armors better effects and made mage light armor sets.


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## ADF (Jul 13, 2007)

Agreed; if you are going to screw unarmored at least set the game up that way, don't leave it in there giving the false impression that it is still usable. 

The problem is the mage class is still about unarmored, the crappy robes given out by the guild and found in adventures are what has the best (best being a word used loosely, most are crap) magic enhancements on them. But if you base a character on unarmored and get into the arcane university for enchanting (which isn't very difficult, even for pure warriors) you will have far less enchantment slots than any armored character. 

Maybe if they kept the quality system from Morrowind they could make clothing hold more enchantment points, but since they dumbed it down to one enchantment per item regardless of the quality no chance of that. This isn't very hard, there are many things Beth could have done to balance this out, but they didn't. The fact that armour sets are better for enchanting than mages robes shows they don't give a damn about balance, just humoring multi class players who want to be complete bad asses in all areas.

Another grievance to note; the arena advertisement posters shows a stereotypical mage wearing a robe, but if you attempt to enter the arena not wearing armour they kick you out. I mean what the hell!


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## Necrosis (Jul 13, 2007)

Unfortunately it is just how game are now. They keep getting easier, and worse in my opinion, just so that casual gamers will be able to experience it all at once. Games used to take time to win, months and in some cases years. Now it seems that the games that don't support Online play are still getting easier. Gears of War took me a few hours to beat. Crackdown took me about a day. Call of Duty 2 took a few hours. Oblivion didn't take too long either. So far, the only recent game that is taking me a while to win is Dead Rising. It's always really sad to see roleplaying games get easier. Zelda: Twilight Princess was incredibly easy. I've recently gone back to playing the old N64 games simply because of how long they take to win and it actually feels like you've done something when you kill a boss.


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## yak (Jul 13, 2007)

And don't forget your opponents in the arena run like there's no tomorrow. I mean, seriously, what the hell.

However, try to crank up the difficulty slider and you'll realize the mage is the only playable class left. 
At the max your weapons and armor 200% less efficient, and your opponent's 200% more efficient, and no matter what you wear or how badass of a tank you may be, you'll die within 4 hits shields or not. 
Archer..... all the archer can do is turn  it's opponents in hedgehogs, and not  really do them any damage. 
Rogue.... _may_ actually survive, but only if they're exreme buffs at alchemy and rely strictly on poisons and sneak attacks.
Anything else in between was hard enough to play on the default level and are cannon fodder in hardcore.
All primary skills apart from magic get severely crippled.

So with mage the only playable class left, you'd have to make sure they get as big of a magicka pool as possible, making them physically weak and allergic to magic as well.  So in the end you'll have a straw man with actual 3 hit points firing spells around like a freaking gattling gun. 

--

Anyway, what i really found to be a genre-killer can be expressed in two words:
Fast. Travel.
Atmosphere of the game destroyed.


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## ADF (Jul 13, 2007)

I wouldn't know because I have never actually been in the arena! â€œoh, looks like our challenger has forgotten his armor, he has been disqualified!â€. I mean how misleading is this poster? It clearly shows a robed mage...

The difficulty slider is a bit ridicules, each way is too extreme. On default you might as well be playing on easy; look how easily I killed the main boss in this vid, that was with a screw up mage with more endurance than intelligence as well. If you lower the slider you are practically in god mode, while if you higher the slider everything has monstrous HP and damage output. I also have to question the logic of the slider itself. Why not just select the difficulty at the beginning of the game? Why let players change it in the middle of a fight so they can suddenly kick the butt of something that was just owning them? I have never done it, but I have seen some players use it as a safety net.

I will however have a play of it, it won't solve any of the unarmored balence issues but at least maybe the enemies will be more of a challenge. As for fast travel I think Bethesda was catering this game for people with ADHD, other than being able to go everywhere instantaneously all the quests are very short. If you can even call them a quest that is, you just do everything you are told and come out on top every time, you also never have to worry about going in over you head either because the whole game scales to your level. You are never challenged, I have yet to encounter a single boss that didn't go down in less than 4 hits, random monsters in the wilderness last longer. 

The worst part is it scales items as well; I am scared to join the mages guild with my current character until he levels a bit, the rewards will only be junk otherwise. But at the same time I just want to get in there and do the whole mage experience. (edit: On a check in the CS even the highest level robes are junk, joy. Looks like level 10-15 are the best minimum for items)

Arrgh this is just irritating, it is a love/hate relationship. On one hand it is the official sequel to the much loved Elder Scrolls series, on the other a textbook example of what not to do.


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## yak (Jul 13, 2007)

I'm also irritated by the fact that of all the races to select from, the real playable ones are Redguard (tank), Altmer/Bossmer (mage) and a Kajit (rogue). Everyone else are  weak jacks of all trades. With the scalable difficulty, if you don't 'efficiently level' you're going to be left behind even at level 10. 

Nah, there's just too much screwed up to hold my interest for longer then an hour at a time. 200% difficulty is challenging, but extremely boring.
I'm just running that game for visual pleasure. Some locations boast breath-taking scenery, and with my 20 FPS on everything turned up to the max, AA/AF included i can leave the game to run and provide me a good, dynamic screensaver when i leave the PC for something.


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## Necrosis (Jul 13, 2007)

In my opinion, Morrowind was a much better game than Oblivion is. If they would of just made Morrowind over again with better graphics and just a bit more gameplay then it would of been so much better >,> I've pretty much been going back to Morrowind and just downloading beauty mods.


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## Gennets (Jul 13, 2007)

Battlemages would survive a hellofalot even with the difficulty at max. Although, I haven't tried it.

But being a level 37 battle mage is t3h PWNZ0R


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## Bokracroc (Jul 13, 2007)

They screwed up Morrowind's Unarmored too.
I wonder what skill they'll screw up in Fallout 3 (short of adding mini-games to everything >: (  ).


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## Gennets (Jul 13, 2007)

But one game isn't screwed up.

Fable 2, GUNS GUNS GUNS!!!


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## ADF (Jul 13, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> They screwed up Morrowind's Unarmored too.


Not so much screwed up, but failed to fix a fatal bug that rendered it useless. The skill itself was fine, it was just the way they programmed the game that rendered it useless. Even if you take into account the unbalanced enchantment slot number with armored characters, unless you was a stupidly rich character you are not going to get any decent enchantments on them anyway.



			
				Bokracroc said:
			
		

> I wonder what skill they'll screw up in Fallout 3 (short of adding mini-games to everything >: (  ).


It has been announced that INT now plays no part in dialogue, effectively turning it into a dump stat fighter players can grab points from for other areas  It has also been confirmed that skills will be cut from the game, what ones however is unknown.


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## ceacar99 (Jul 13, 2007)

if your going to go un-armored do what my high elf, aprentice sign character(his class was titled "mage fist") did. get nice clothes, something that you think looks good but is high qual, because your likely to live in them for the rest of the game. then learn the spell "shield". complete the quests required to get into the mages guild proper. collect one grand soul gem for each piece of clothing. enchant each piece with the spell "shield" on constant effect.

with that my "mage fist" had an armor class of like 70 with just clothes, add any potions or jewelry and he is just downright invincible to melee. an example of how tough that is, the arena grand champion when he hacked into me did almost no damage, and most of the arena combatants were doing so little damage to me that i was doing more then i ocasionally poped them in the face with my fist . i was level 3 when i ran that arena "experiment"

anyway the lack of unarmored skill represents that the skill to fight unarmored is mroe of avoidance, in that sence its now a player skill of keeping out of reach of enemy attacks....

what i was upset that they removed were polearms.... just plain stupid in my opinion.... with the new combat system the pole arm would have been the traditional mage's ultimate melee weapon. "back fools! back! i outrange you! back!", lol.



> Not so much screwed up, but failed to fix a fatal bug that rendered it useless. The skill itself was fine, it was just the way they programmed the game that rendered it useless. Even if you take into account the unbalanced enchantment slot number with armored characters, unless you was a stupidly rich character you are not going to get any decent enchantments on them anyway.



there is a mod that fixes that. the bug is that if you have no armor on the unarmored skill or any defensive skill wont work, so you have to have SOMETHING on. some gloves, boots whatever. what this mod did is basicly put an invisible helmet on you that protects for 0.



> Not so much screwed up, but failed to fix a fatal bug that rendered it useless. The skill itself was fine, it was just the way they programmed the game that rendered it useless. Even if you take into account the unbalanced enchantment slot number with armored characters, unless you was a stupidly rich character you are not going to get any decent enchantments on them anyway.



int is still HIGHLY inportant if you want to level your skills quickly as a warrior. however your right, at that point only techies would use int, but then again when i want to make a big meaty warrior i dont have that much int anyway. i beat fallout 1 and 2 with a character that had 1 int . playing the game as a STUPID guy is a hell of a lot more difficult.... trust me...


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## ADF (Jul 13, 2007)

I didn't particularly like that Morrowind mod since it basically just turned unarmored into a really weak armor skill. I preferred the dodge mod method, it added a sanctuary bonus depending on the level of your unarmored skill. It made the skill into more of a attack dodging ability which was effective, if you put any armor on the effect would weaken. If you select the right mods you can actually make Morrowind more like Oblivion, there are mods for willpower based mana regeneration and skill based spell cost reduction. Added with the dodge mod, it was what I would of liked Oblivion to be.

As for Oblivion since I have been through the main story at least once I of course considered enchanting everything I had with shield spells. However it occurred to me that if I had a high constant affect armor spell going I wouldn't us armor spells anymore, greatly stunting the rate Alteration would level. So instead I added +50mp spell effects to every piece of clothing I had, making me more effective in all spell areas. My defense wasn't as good as if I used shield spells, but alteration made up for that at later levels it wouldn't have reached if neglected. 

Don't get me wrong about all the complaining, I am very good at dodging my opponents, after a while you get a knack for watching enemy animations and seeing the right moment to jump in and out to avoid damage. However just because it was possible to play as a unarmored mage, doesn't mean I still don't feel ripped off by Bethesda's so called balancing. Even small things like not being able to use the pants slot in robes and having to hunt for a mod for cloth gloves, they didn't give a toss about unarmored characters.


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## ceacar99 (Jul 13, 2007)

lol, +50mp was pretty useless for my characters. the only person i made more powerfull then my "mage fist" was my high elf antronoch, but he guzzled potions... the secret is getting your willpower up as high as you can get it. that will DRASTICLY inprove your effectiveness with magic, both offensive and defensive. that means potions and enchanted clothing. lol be thankfull in oblivion that you cannot make demi gods through alchemy.... or make yourself a lesser but still highly powerfull being by enchanting constant regen effects into your equipment....

anyway, i do get what your feeling. oblivion lacked ALOT of the cool but less apreciated things of morrowind. i hope they dont butcher fallout 3 thats all i know...


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## ADF (Jul 13, 2007)

I thought the same myself, what is 50mp when a single use of your attack spell uses 80mp? Or 200+ even? But it all adds up, every equipped item adding to MP gives you quite a substantial mana pool boost. Sure you could become a potion guzzler, but I had enough of that in Morrowind, I prided my old character on being highly efficient as well as powerful.

Anyone can throw all their mana into two nuclear explosions and then choke down a few mana potions (being sure to quickly go in and out of inventory to skip the potion use limit) to take on the next enemy. But killing the same group of enemies on one mana bar, now that takes skill and good utilization of the mages spell arsenal.

A good mix between a magic/elemental resistance debuff, AE DOT and enrage can take down any group of enemies. Plus it is much fun to sit there regening mana as they clobber each other to death while on fire ^.=.^ If you treat your fights like you don't have a create of mana potions to rely on, they tend to be more interesting than say repetitively blowing everything up every encounter. That's not to say a little boom boom isn't good every now and then.


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## Bokracroc (Jul 13, 2007)

ADF said:
			
		

> Bokracroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As long as the cut/merge the right ones, I don't care.
I mean, who the fuck used Gambling or Throwing?

I've seen so many Fallout 3 articles, link me to the one where they say they've drooped INT from dialogue.


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## ceacar99 (Jul 13, 2007)

well, a antronoch HAS to guzzle potions if he uses magica as his primary weapon. the game is drasticly different for him(especially in morrowind), not all of his enemies fling magic at him so he must constantly be replenishing his supply on his own. as a result the best method to make a powerfull antronoch is first get an additional 50 points in magic absorbtion through equipment(making him invulnerable to magic, the ai figures this out eventually),  and he must ALLWAYS be picking up any alchemic ingrediants as he travels. first and foremost despite his magical power he is a alchemist because of his disability. 

my antronoch in oblivion at level 50 had 80% of his carry weight taken up by potions, poisens and ingrediants. his magica is reserved for a seriously threatening oponent or the few things he cannot do with alchemy, otherwise he uses alchemy to acomplish his goals. the ONLY time he realy begins to dip in his power is when he gets into some serious mage fights(wich he wins without effort )

beat the game as an antronoch mage, not a warrior but a mage. you may be highly resistant to incoming spells but you'll find that your pool of power doesnt count for as much when it doesnt regen.


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## ADF (Jul 14, 2007)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> [snip]
> I've seen so many Fallout 3 articles, link me to the one where they say they've drooped INT from dialogue.


Here you go, two threads on it containing links.

Link Link



			
				ceacar99 said:
			
		

> [snip]


And that is why I don't want to play one  I just want to play a mage character, not the extremely different game play The Atronach sign causes. How do you get any decent loot with that little carrying capacity? I imagine the feather spells but with the no mana regen... In Morrowind I actually used The Apprentice sign but they made it too burdensome in Oblivion by doubling its negative impact without changing its mana boost (what were they thinking?), so I stick with the lowly The Mage sign. I suppose having such a small mana pool at the beginning of the game is what taut me to be so efficient in the first place.


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## Gennets (Jul 15, 2007)

Problem with mages though, is MP. Most of the spells you spellmake, or buy from the mages guild cost about 38572389 mp whilst you only have about 100. Even with enchantments and potion heavy it get's rather annoying after awhile.

And I have it on Xbox 360 and not PC, so I cant set my mp to 10000


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## ADF (Jul 15, 2007)

You shouldn't need to, you are probably making spells of mass destruction for mana costs like that. Judging by you only have around 100 mana, and spells cost so much, you are probably a none mage or hybrid class trying to play around with high level magic.


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## Gennets (Jul 15, 2007)

Actually my MP is around...300 and over. Yet i'm a high level, and require high level spells to do at least a hint of damage. My class mainly focuses on magic, yet I put heavy armor and blade just for show. My intelligence is over maximum, aswell as my willpower. I just don't get it!

Do you have any hints on how I could get even HIGHER maximum? So I can have a chance of casting the most powerful Illusion paralyze spell without my magicka bothering me?


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## ADF (Jul 15, 2007)

Armor is just for show huh, what is your spell efficiency? At low levels, armor can really increase mana costs. Plus what type of spells do you use?

[edit]

Ok if you are not using armor or melee weapons as a core skill then they are just a burden, they invalidate most of the negative affects at higher levels but if you only wear them for looks then it will be a long wait till they reach that point. Do yourself a favor, drop the effects and equipped some clothing so you can out run and dodge enemy attacks as well as get better mana efficiency. You won't need the extra defense if you are too quick to get hit, you should also only equip a blade if you intend to use it in melee combat.


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## Gennets (Jul 15, 2007)

My spell effciency is 100%. At least I think,Â Â due to my heavy armor skill or my intelligence I think it maxes it out despite the fact I'm wearing armor.

And my armor is full of enchantments, Daedric to be in fact. Aswell as enchanted rings, TWO. And amulet.

Most of my spells are either apprentice or expert. I can cast Master Conjuration spells and I do, since they aren't as costly.


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## ADF (Jul 15, 2007)

If you are wearing armor then the highest you spell efficiency can be is 95%, regardless of how high you get your skill.

I can see you having problems casting apprentice level spells, but if you are having problems at expert and master then perhaps the problem is more that of application than ability. I am going to need to know what your main spells are, as in the affects and mana cost. I am guessing you use quite a lot of instant damage, ranged, high radius destruction spells am I right? Plus for none destruction spells high durations such as with paralyze. 

Since you are not a pure mage I can only give so many recommendations, but I do know a fair bit about decent spell utilization.


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## ceacar99 (Jul 15, 2007)

> And that is why I don't want to play one Razz I just want to play a mage character, not the extremely different game play The Atronach sign causes. How do you get any decent loot with that little carrying capacity? I imagine the feather spells but with the no mana regen... In Morrowind I actually used The Apprentice sign but they made it too burdensome in Oblivion by doubling its negative impact without changing its mana boost (what were they thinking?), so I stick with the lowly The Mage sign. I suppose having such a small mana pool at the beginning of the game is what taut me to be so efficient in the first place.



the aprentice sign is not bad, you just have to learn how to guard your weaknesses. either a: be cheep and get gear that directly guards your weaknesses, or b: get your speed up and carry very little. basicly with that sign you are a offencive mage who must not be forced on the defensive. usually its best when used with breton as its ballenced by his strength vs magic, however a high elf aprentice DOES work if you learn NOT to be hit, or you spend the time and effort to reduce or erase your weakness. 

anyway, my high elf antronoch didnt need to pick up loot. he was a survivalist and hardly ever bought anything. all of those potions and ingrediants were either made by him or found. that goes the same for the equipment. he only thing i bought for him in alchemy was a paralalisis potion because its difficult to get ingrediants. also his strongest atributes were intellegence, endurance and strength if i recall correctly. in alot of senses he was a spell sword who primarily uses alchemy and ocasionally relies on powerfull area of effect magics if in a bind.


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## ADF (Jul 16, 2007)

I still don't think a extra 50pt in mana is worth having enemy spells have double the affect against you, you do inevitably get hit every now and then. Maybe if they gave you a few more benefits along with the birth sign but it really is twice the disadvantages for the same deal.

Also Gennets, do you want advice or are you fine now?


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## ADF (Jul 19, 2007)

I was playing my new mage character today when I was reminded of just how dumbed down this game really is.

It was the â€œVahtacen's secretâ€ quest, the one where you have to solve a 'puzzle' by casting spells at a pillar in the correct order. These mages have been trying to figure this out for the past week, but you come along and are somehow supposed to solve it right there and then. Fair enough, it is a challenge for the player under the theme of the mage guild, however the general point of a puzzle is that you are supposed to figure it out yourself.

First off a guide that translates the meaning of the symbols of the puzzle was right there, they just didn't use it till you came along for some reason. But even when you have the guide, you don't even have to go about matching the symbols with the correct spell types. A mage guild member called Denel does this for you and tells you the exact spells you need to use and in what order.

So all you have to do is find and cast the correct spells, but even that is done for you! There is a bloody chest full of all the scrolls you need to complete the puzzle. So you are told where the guide is, have it read to you and have the spells provided just so you don't have to put even the slightest bit of effort into this 'puzzle'. Then when the thing finally opens up, at no effort on your part, you take all the credit.

... gah... anger... I mean what the hell? How is this supposed to be fun? I haven't achieved anything, all I did was what I was told to do, but I am being congratulated for it. Where is the pride? The sense of accomplishment? I joined the mage guild to play a MAGE, to do mage things, but Bethesda designed this game to treat you like a complete idiot...


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## Bokracroc (Jul 20, 2007)

I'm currently downloading a Torrent of Daggerfall to compare with Morrowind and Oblivion.


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## chronoteeth (Jul 20, 2007)

Isn't it strange that games with big mega complaints such as this, sells loads of copies and gets rave reviews from all around?


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## Bokracroc (Jul 20, 2007)

chronoteeth said:
			
		

> Isn't it strange that games with big mega complaints such as this, sells loads of copies and gets rave reviews from all around?


Consumer culture?
Sheep?
The major majority over-look/too stupid?

Oblivion was marketed as the next awesome RPG to over happen with it's Next-Gen console-ness and pretty pictures.
People say The Elder Scrolls have been going down hill since Daggerfall. At the moment I think that's a bit harsh. In Daggerfall, you had everything.
_Everything_. 
Horses, carts, weres (Wolf and Boar), vampires, huge huge huge game world, real estate, ships, 6 different endings.

No-one how badly Beth fuck up Fallout 3, it will sell well.


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## Ray Kicio (Jul 20, 2007)

I thought Bethesda screwed the whole of Oblivion up, really.

Once you get past the fact that it is a fantasty FPS and looks pretty, it really doesn't do anything amazing.

It also has some flaws. Some major flaws. Some highway man running at me with a 25000 gold mace flaws.

Don't give me the 'you can DL mods to fix that on the PC version' nonsense either. First, not everyone has the PC version. Second, it's something the modding comunity fixed and not Bethesda soft.


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## chronoteeth (Jul 25, 2007)

You forgot to add "It's a good game but I don't like it?" option.


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## webkilla (Jul 25, 2007)

imo the only thing oblivion, and morowind for that matter, really missed was alternate endings...

morowind: beat dagoth whatshisname and save the day, get mouthlove from goddes, thats it

oblivion: get the temple district messed up, people go "wtf just happened?" and.. thats it
(the oblivion loot scale system is easily fixed with a good mod or two, no more highwayman with eldritch deathsticks of uber pwnage)

if what bokra says is true - that daggerfall had all that... well... it would be nice have in oblivion/morowind too, i mean: once you finish all the quests, which isn't that hard, there isn't much to do really... it needs some replayability, either with alternate endings or just plain something to do! It shouldn't be that difficult to add a mission generator or something, go to point A, find thief B, get stolen thingy C back to rich git... they could just randomly spawn at the tons of camps n hideouts placed throughout the game world.


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## Mc_Jack (Oct 1, 2008)

i love oblivion played it waaaaaay to much tho 600 hours played time never did anything with my toon naked tho ._. still fun to play around with it =3 ninja class ftw


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## Tycho (Oct 1, 2008)

I think ALL the armor skills are stupid.  They removed medium armor and unarmored and left light and heavy.  Why even have those?  Just make it so heavier armor shields you from crap better, lighter stuff trades some protection for some mobility, and no armor allows you to utilize your speed+agility attributes to the greatest effect by simply not getting hit at all, through dodging and evasion.  Why do we need SKILLS for armor?

I'm also of the opinion that the Elder Scrolls' stat system (Strength, Endurance, Speed, Agility, Intelligence, Willpower, Personality and Luck) is inferior to the SPECIAL system used by the Fallout games.  Hell, I think SPECIAL is better than the STR CON DEX INT WIS CHA system used by D&D based games.  But that's beside the point here...

EDIT: what I wouldn't give to be able to create and implement my OWN universal roleplay system in the games I play.


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## Mikael Grizzly (Oct 1, 2008)

Mc Jack, why do you gravedig a dead thread? It's over a year old...


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## Tycho (Oct 1, 2008)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Mc Jack, why do you gravedig a dead thread? It's over a year old...



Oh shit, I just noticed...


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## Bokracroc (Oct 1, 2008)

I did finish that Daggerfall torrent.
Fuck it's huge. That actually needed the fast travel. And owning boats was cool.
I don't think I really touched the main quest in the end.


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