# So, question.. Why advertise NSFW work under general audience?



## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

_I may get roasted alive for asking this.
*However, *I must know why this is a common occurrence as I basically just do not understand it.
_
I am a pretty clean guy (more so these days) and my goal in life is to create works for children to enjoy. So I am a pretty prude fellow. Though with my time on Furaffinity I have found the Safe for work is not really for General Audiences, unlike what it is named for.

Main page is usually filled with People advertising their lewd or mostly pornographic artwork._
Which I will say:I have no problem with what people post_! 
As long as it isn't illegal- you do you. ^-^
But I do have some problems with barely censored Porn while I am supposed to be in _Safe mode_. 

I want to understand why this is a thing.
If someone is strictly on _SFW mode. _Why advertise your barely censored Pornographic YCH's and Commission slots to them?
While you can argue, they broke no rules therefor: GFY.
I'd like to say that the mentality is what doesn't make sense to me and it puts what I try to avoid right in my face.

Now this also happens with most Fetishes, as most can be considered Safe.
(Not kink shaming just stating) Such as Diaperfurs(which can included soiled diapers), Vore, BDSM, Tickle, Feet, and inflation.
It can get quiet tiresome to scour through the pages to find New and beautiful (SAFE) works of art that I enjoy.

*Now, to get into the solution I find most feasible for the website, *_*as I did not come here to Just complain.*
_
I still am posting this in General, because I see more value in the conversation side of this.
Seeing if others share my boat that I have sailed in, and maybe gather people to ask for what I am about to suggest. (It may already be a Suggestion.)

Tag blocking.
Short and simple, and could cure many of mine and I am sure others problems.
Now Most people barely tag as is. But let me give an example of how this can work.

I am sure Many know of the E6 website just by those initials.
Believe it or not, I have an account there. Which I am sure you are asking why would you; A person who shy's away from simple oversized and overflowing bosom's and scary sized bulges. Be on a website like that?

Well it's all cause that fated site isn't just porn!
It's full of beautiful artwork from even people who post here on FA!
Which thanks to their open, and kinda enforced tagging system. I can block everything I don't want to see!

This is how I think FA can do the same.
As it is feasible; And would make the site open to a more general audience.
Which is always a good thing for a site that relies on Ad revenue.

That being said, I did look into this and saw a post about it right after I got done writing this up, Hopefully the code has gotten better since the site has been revamped.

Be gentle with me in the replies. <3


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## Kinare (Feb 20, 2020)

kaede_ishimora said:


> It can get quiet tiresome to scour through the pages to find New and beautiful (SAFE) works of art that I enjoy.



Same. I just... don't anymore, unless I'm fully prepared for and feel I can handle the other shit I might see. I feel we're in the very small minority on that though, so I'm unsure they'll do anything with your idea as long as it's just for a small few. If I had money I'd even offer to donate some to the cause.

Back when I was looking for a SFW artist to draw my sona it was painful, I had to scour through so much "soft" porn until I got the smarts to just post a thread here on the forums and have the artists come to me. That was my way of defeating the system, ha.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

Kinare said:


> Back when I was looking for a SFW artist to draw my sona it was painful, I had to scour through so much "soft" porn until I got the smarts to just post a thread here on the forums and have the artists come to me.



I love supporting more SFW artist's as well, as some in my experience get overlooked though they have amazing pricing. Even finding friends in the artistic world that share similar views is very difficult! I am Lucky to have at least one Furry friend that I share similar views with.


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## PercyD (Feb 20, 2020)

Word wall, didn't read, but...

-Maybe did you try reporting the barely censored SFW art...? I have made SFW previews of NSFW art, but usually it's a clean close up on the safer bits. 

However, I will admit, after drawing a whole NSFW piece you kind of lose a little sense of what is decent. It might be the offending artist needs a reminder that pasties and crotch covers are not SFW.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

PercyD said:


> Word wall, didn't read, but...
> 
> -Maybe did you try reporting the barely censored SFW art...? I have made SFW previews of NSFW art, but usually it's a clean close up on the safer bits.
> 
> However, I will admit, after drawing a whole NSFW piece you kind of lose a little sense of what is decent. It might be the offending artist needs a reminder that pasties and crotch covers are not SFW.



_In my original post I spoke that *Technically*, one could argue it is *safe.*_

I always feel so mean reporting, and have actually instead spoken to artist before about this; Some say they didn't mean to and others were mad. Which I still don't understand how you could censor johnny's 3rd leg that could crush a small village. But mark it as Safe.
But I'll mark that up as 3am brain.

*And yes, Pasties and crotch covers really are not General audience* - At most I would place those in Mature. But I have seen people post full on doggy style with a tiny censor, more times than I can count while advertising their work.

The way you do things sounds completely fine to me, I have seen that style before.
Though a question if you will. Why advertise Mature or Adult work to people perusing the Safe work?
Would not the people you are aiming for be looking for that already?


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## PercyD (Feb 20, 2020)

kaede_ishimora said:


> _In my original post I spoke that *Technically*, one could argue it is *safe.*_
> 
> I always feel so mean reporting, and have actually instead spoken to artist before about this; Some say they didn't mean to and others were mad. Which I still don't understand how you could censor johnny's 3rd leg that could crush a small village. But mark it as Safe.
> But I'll mark that up as 3am brain.
> ...


Like I said-
After drawing a lot of NSFW, you become desensitized. Thats a lot of the reason why I charge more for NSFW commissions. 
-One, because I'm asexual and my browsing preferences are ALOT different. 
-And two, if my tiddy and pene preceptors are going to be dulled from drawing your art piece, I am upcharging. 

The reason why I bring this up is because I feel like this explains why people might think pasties and crotch covers are SFW? -Because they're really *not*. And I disagree, there is no argument for this. The only reason why this happens is because the way NSFW _is applied_ is objective, and if you had someone staring at penes all day to make a a NSFW piece, afterwards, they might think a crotch cover is okay.

Thats why you need to talk to the artist and let them know it's not okay. Theres no argument that could be made. Please go outside and drink some water and get 30 minutes of cardio vascular exercise. 
If you don't feel like thats something you want to do, then report them. There is "mean" and then there is being assertive. The person's not going to get ultra banned. They'll just get a message from an authority that they can't argue with if they feel like trying to argue.


To answer your question- myself, I am not always "advertising". Sometimes I am posting my current work or showing off techniques. Maybe I have a piece with a lot of heavy petting, but I think the shading and the coloring techniques I used for the scene are boss. I'll crop it up as best I can to show off the _artistic merit_. 


If I am advertising, it may be trying to get people to come to my stream. Sometimes my NSFW streams run over into SFW and vice versa, but I need current content to show off what I'm currently working on. Then I'd crop the NSFW best I can, let people know when I'm switching, etc.

But obviously, if I'm selling YCH or any prefab content, I'm obviously not going to advertise it on SFW.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

PercyD said:


> Like I said-
> After drawing a lot of NSFW, you become desensitized. Thats a lot of the reason why I charge more for NSFW commissions.
> -One, because I'm asexual and my browsing preferences are ALOT different.
> -And two, if my tiddy and pene preceptors are going to be dulled from drawing your art piece, I am upcharging.
> ...



Ha, yeah. I feel that, Though I believe I will never be Drawing anything even slightly more risque. I'd definitely upsale it if I did! I cannot tell you how many times my friend tells me to draw porn; For the, well... More money it would bring in. But personally I am just not comfortable with it.

Yes, I agree with your original statement and assessment of the censor not being adequate. (Or maybe I misunderstood, I blame my lack of sleep.)

I am a bit confused at your statements of the consumption of water and exercise. 
However I get the Gist of it I believe. To which I agree fully, While I do not like reporting. I do not mind doing it especially if they respond rudely to kind messages explaining the problem.
Actually not but 2 hours ago someone was legit posting their doujin. And while they were okay with changing the first I saw.. they kept uploading frankly just straight up porn. While I do believe it is because my eyesight is awful; I cannot seem to find the report on the new UI. 
Would you know where it is?

Yes, Some works that are mature do have Great merit.
While I may not peruse overly lewd works of sexual nature. The form of bodies can be quiet beautiful no?
I myself have done work which included drawing the physique of An anthro woman.
Personally, I find those to be Great examples of the Mature rating.
It's hard to remember that mature isn't just softcore porn at times, it can also be Amazing work showing the wonderful design of fictional (or non) Bodies. 

Though I am not into the science of Biology, Some things are just interesting to look at as they are way different then what we see as normal. (Looking at you Sergal's) 
Joke's aside, There's tons of merit in that sort of work!

You have a respectable way of doing things, wish more people followed your example! ^-^


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## PercyD (Feb 20, 2020)

kaede_ishimora said:


> Ha, yeah. I feel that, Though I believe I will never be Drawing anything even slightly more risque. I'd definitely upsale it if I did! I cannot tell you how many times my friend tells me to draw porn; For the, well... More money it would bring in. But personally I am just not comfortable with it.
> 
> Yes, I agree with your original statement and assessment of the censor not being adequate. (Or maybe I misunderstood, I blame my lack of sleep.)
> 
> ...


Yea, people are more likely to pay for NSFW stuff. (and NSFW stuff has paid my phone bills in the past). Though I draw it because I feel like I'm good at it also. Just like the rest of my art, it's different then whats out there and I think thats p rad.  (Plus, I'm good at butts.)

And those are the standards for self care. If people want to argue with you about whats appropriate, tell them to go outside, hydrate, and get in their daily cardio. They need to get out for a bit.


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## goldcatmask (Feb 20, 2020)

I've found that a lot of artists tag their porn inappropriately by accident and if you simply inform them of the incorrect tagging, they'll correct it. I've had to ask several artists to tag their porn appropriately and i've only ever encountered one that genuinely did not care if minors had access to their work.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

goldcatmask said:


> I've found that a lot of artists tag their porn inappropriately by accident and if you simply inform them of the incorrect tagging, they'll correct it. I've had to ask several artists to tag their porn appropriately and i've only ever encountered one that genuinely did not care if minors had access to their work.



Yeah that is most of my experience too.
Which though you were speaking of the Rating, I believe this is a good point to be made about my suggestion.
Some could argue Tag blocking wouldn't help because people just don't tag or miss-tag their stuff.
Though my point of mentioning it was, if it was enforced; As in write at least 5 tags.
With the addition of community tags, It would all self regulate. 
Allowing there to be Artist tags and Community Tags, together.

Though of course to stop Lynch mobs, and or raids on an artist, be it differing opinion. Or some sort of disgruntled person(s). Allow the Artist to control what community tags are true. (As well as make this a feature that you can block through user blocking). There should also be the ability to see who made the particular tags; however that is a more advance feature. But giving the Artist themselves the ability to self regulate - Most wouldn't touch the added tag's UNLESS they were false.

This has shown to work on other more traffic heavy websites, so I believe this would work wonders here on FA.
I also believe you could do the same with other categories such as rating. 
Having a community based - General, mature, adult. - Though this would be harder to implement in a balanced way. And currently I cannot think of a way to stop false report Ratings. As well as not making it a crutch for people that don't rate their own stuff appropriately.


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## goldcatmask (Feb 20, 2020)

kaede_ishimora said:


> Yeah that is most of my experience too.
> Which though you were speaking of the Rating, I believe this is a good point to be made about my suggestion.
> Some could argue Tag blocking wouldn't help because people just don't tag or miss-tag their stuff.
> Though my point of mentioning it was, if it was enforced; As in write at least 5 tags.
> ...



I'm not super knowledgeable on stuff like this but i think some of the mislabeling comes from artists who use those auto-post services to queue their uploads. Services like that usually just upload the art as general audience, even if it truly isn't. Although it would be nice to be able to go at least 5 seconds on FA's SFW mode without seeing a fursona whose head and limbs are imploding on itself.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

goldcatmask said:


> I'm not super knowledgeable on stuff like this but i think some of the mislabeling comes from artists who use those auto-post services to queue their uploads. Services like that usually just upload the art as general audience, even if it truly isn't. Although it would be nice to be able to go at least 5 seconds on FA's SFW mode without seeing a fursona whose head and limbs are imploding on itself.



See, that could lead to another problem fixed!
That is a true problem that many may be facing! 
While yes, scheduling is usually a 3rd party application, what if FA built their own scheduled uploads system. 

Though I may not have as much insight into the matter.
It would be interesting if it was built into FA, maybe then could 3rd party apps use it more efficiently. Though really this is a problem with the 3rd party apps.

Also Yes I agree immensely, 
I have no clue why FA has such a problem with this. It could be the communities fault, as I have experience less problems on similar sites.

I do love going and finding new artists but man do I need a full dose of eye bleach every time.


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## goldcatmask (Feb 20, 2020)

kaede_ishimora said:


> See, that could lead to another problem fixed!
> That is a true problem that many may be facing!
> While yes, scheduling is usually a 3rd party application, what if FA built their own scheduled uploads system.
> 
> ...



A built in queue-ing system would be great tbh. It would probably reduce the amount of porn that gets out by a lot if i had to guess. For those who simply don't care, moderation would have to be informed of this and that requires the community to report improper tagging immediately. 

And these people seem to think because no genitals are visible, their fetish is safe for everyone to see, including children. But i've met plenty of other ADULTS who don't even wanna see the crap they're into. I rarely browse the front page because of them.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 20, 2020)

goldcatmask said:


> A built in queue-ing system would be great tbh. It would probably reduce the amount of porn that gets out by a lot if i had to guess. For those who simply don't care, moderation would have to be informed of this and that requires the community to report improper tagging immediately.
> 
> And these people seem to think because no genitals are visible, their fetish is safe for everyone to see, including children. But i've met plenty of other ADULTS who don't even wanna see the crap they're into. I rarely browse the front page because of them.



Yes for sure!

That is sadly very true.
As Percy stated, it is probably a lack of a conscious environment on the artist part.
Like working with police, you get very desensitized from gruesome murders if you are around them long enough.
While it is their fault for not being socially aware, most will be corrective once told.

But yes, I agree. Trying to browse through even searches without seeing some.. very unusual stuff; is rather hard.
Even if I do like something I am seeing, I do not want to let the kids I take care of (responsible uncle, here!) To see some of the stuff I see.

It's hard to recommend safe websites for budding Anthro lovers as is.
Though I have found DuckDuckGo on strict parental, to be the safest way for the kids to find art they like while not being always monitored.
(Sometimes you gotta step away to fix lunch or the like)

But allow me to say that No user generated content hosting sites will always be 100% safe, even with the best filters. All I am really wanting is to not see something in the wrong category 68% of the time.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 23, 2020)

kaede_ishimora said:


> Why advertise your barely censored Pornographic YCH's and Commission slots to them?
> While you can argue, they broke no rules therefor: GFY.


If the final product is intended to be NSFW, and especially if it’s a reminder post for a NSFW ad, they _are_ actually breaking rules.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 23, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> If the final product is intended to be NSFW, and especially if it’s a reminder post for a NSFW ad, they _are_ actually breaking rules.



Oh, is that right?
Man, that may be the most broken rule I ever seen then; No joke.
I mean I have nothing to add to that except.. Wow.

The only reason I thought it was okay, was that it is something I see all the time.
Mostly I see Mature YCH/Com's getting advertised on General.
But Adult work's definitely get up there quiet often.


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## Lutro (Feb 23, 2020)

There a link to the policy on advertising? Because I'm pretty sure "SFW ad that advertises for NSFW stuff" (i.e. artist who draws NSFW puts up a SFW ad saying to get art from them) is not a rule-breaking thing.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 23, 2020)

Lutro said:


> There a link to the policy on advertising? Because I'm pretty sure "SFW ad that advertises for NSFW stuff" (i.e. artist who draws NSFW puts up a SFW ad saying to get art from them) is not a rule-breaking thing.


In the AUP (Upload Policy); emphasis mine:


> *2.1 Reminders*
> Submissions used to remind users of content for sale are permitted. The rating of the reminder must match the highest rated content it advertises or links to (AUP Section 1.1). Reminders may be removed and reposted only after 4 hours have elapsed and may not be reposted on other accounts you own. Reminders must still comply with all other policies, such as Section 2.9 - Duplicate Content.
> 
> *2.2 Selling*
> Goods being sold through submissions may only be user-created or handcrafted items. The submission rating must reflect the final product.


If what you’re posting is something like a commission price sheet type thing, and you are an artist who also does NSFW, then sure, you can post a SFW submission about your commissions. That’s not the type of sales post that this thread is about, though.

If you have a NSFW adopt or YCH, you cannot crop or paste censor bars onto it and post it as General, is the pertinent point.


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## Lutro (Feb 24, 2020)

Ohh my mistake. I thought you were talking about literal advertisements (as in, buying ad space on FA). Not posting submissions that advertise content. Yeah that makes total sense in that regard.


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## FluffyFenrir (Feb 24, 2020)

I've been questioning why advertise NSFW stuff to General audiences for ages. I enjoy viewing and making Mature and Adult content but when I just want to view some nice clean artwork I use SFW mode, might be hard to believe for some but I use SFW most of my time on FA. It's so annoying seeing all these clearly NSFW things showing up and I have no problem reporting cause I'm kinda sick of people unable to understand the extremely simple and I'd say "fair" upload policy. If you're just advertising that you do commisons to general, then at least have the decency to use some sfw pieces for the ad.


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## Lutro (Feb 24, 2020)

FluffyFenrir said:


> I've been questioning why advertise NSFW stuff to General audiences for ages.


I mean I can tell you why easily: More eyeballs on your ads. May be rule-breaking, but if they're seldom enforced, then the gains from reaching more people who may be browsing SFW but are still interested in getting NSFW material later is far more valuable to 'em in the long run.


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## kaede_ishimora (Feb 24, 2020)

Lutro said:


> I mean I can tell you why easily: More eyeballs on your ads. May be rule-breaking, but if they're seldom enforced, then the gains from reaching more people who may be browsing SFW but are still interested in getting NSFW material later is far more valuable to 'em in the long run.



Is there no tally system on reports?
Like so many (Confirmed true) reports and you get your account closed? 
I am not really well informed about how furaffinity operates.


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## Lutro (Feb 24, 2020)

Your guess is as good as mine.


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## Tendo64 (Feb 24, 2020)

My theory is probably more pessimistic than everyone else's, but I have the feeling people do it because having it on general makes it reach more people--that is, it reaches not only the people with mature and adult content on, it also reaches those with safe-for-work mode. They don't stop to consider _why _that person is using safe-for-work mode, all they know is--the more people that see it, the more clicks they get.


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## FluffyFenrir (Feb 24, 2020)

I'm well aware it's to get more views, I just question what kind of sick person advertises porn to underaged people and people who seriously don't want to see it, so that's why I love so much to report if it's clearly not appropriate. Yes I said "I love" reporting those types because I see anyone in this world doing such things by choice as scum, people viewing only general have far less options than others so why be so unfair as to take over that category when mature/adult will bring in the people wanting it. More views dosen't actaully get more interest, more views directed to the correct audiences and also using accurate tags is more likely work than people seem to think. 

I have no problem with people advertising, but if it's done without consideration for simple rules and how it could effect others then I've suddenly got a problem with that person. I also find censors just look so ugly when browsing, the sfw version of a thing is just a big NOPE to me if it's a censor of some kind covering up whatever rather than a version simply drawn'painted etc without.



kaede_ishimora said:


> Is there no tally system on reports?
> Like so many (Confirmed true) reports and you get your account closed?
> I am not really well informed about how furaffinity operates.



This is what happens:
*7.1 Penalties*
Failure to abide by the content of this document may result in the following penalties. ("You" refers to you and all accounts you own/operate):

*1st Level Offense:* You will receive a *Warning Notice*.
*2nd Level Offense:* You will be *Temporarily Suspended for 1 day*.
*3rd Level Offense:* You will be *Temporarily Suspended for 1 week*.
*4th Level Offense:* You will be *Temporarily Suspended for 1 month* and will receive a *Final Warning* to cease violating the relevant section.
*5th Level Offense:* You will be *Permanently Banned* from using Fur Affinity's services. Any future accounts you create will also be *Permanently Banned*.
*7.2 Stacking*
Only violations of the same section stack when concerning penalties. e.g. If you violate section 1.10 and then subsequently section 1.11, you will receive warnings both times.


For the most part if a person isn't reported the chances of action being taken against them is lower, mod's and admins don't see everything after all


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## Tendo64 (Feb 24, 2020)

FluffyFenrir said:


> I'm well aware it's to get more views, I just question what kind of sick person advertises porn to underaged people and people who seriously don't want to see it.


I genuinely think they just don't consider that people don't want to see it, nor do they consider children being on the site. They probably don't think twice about it--again, they really only think about "more clicks = more money" and they don't think on it a second longer.


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## TheCynicalViet (Feb 24, 2020)

I think the wrong question is "why?". In the grand scheme of things, we don't need to know why because there could be an infinite number of reasons why someone would post NSFW in /general/. In the end, it doesn't matter because the more important question is "how do you stop this?". 

Personally, I'd say do a Tumblr and go scorched earth on any and all NSFW as that would be the most efficient way of stopping this problem. No NSFW means nobody can post any NSFW in /general/. It's not that I support censoring NSFW artists since I make NSFW myself. It's because users are gonna circumvent any possible countermeasure that you can come up with.  Blacklist tags? They'll find a way. Soft-ban NSFW artists (they can upload but their art will not be in any search results)? They'll find a way. Create a separate sister-site of FA exclusively for mature/adult art? You know damn well they're gonna post in the SFW version of the site anyways. That's just how it goes. 

You may mock me for saying that we should do exactly what Tumblr did but for all that it's worth, the NSFW ban on Tumblr did exactly what it was designed to do.


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## PercyD (Feb 24, 2020)

TheCynicalViet said:


> I think the wrong question is "why?". In the grand scheme of things, we don't need to know why because there could be an infinite number of reasons why someone would post NSFW in /general/. In the end, it doesn't matter because the more important question is "how do you stop this?".
> 
> Personally, I'd say do a Tumblr and go scorched earth on any and all NSFW as that would be the most efficient way of stopping this problem. No NSFW means nobody can post any NSFW in /general/. It's not that I support censoring NSFW artists since I make NSFW myself. It's because users are gonna circumvent any possible countermeasure that you can come up with.  Blacklist tags? They'll find a way. Soft-ban NSFW artists (they can upload but their art will not be in any search results)? They'll find a way. Create a separate sister-site of FA exclusively for mature/adult art? You know damn well they're gonna post in the SFW version of the site anyways. That's just how it goes.
> 
> You may mock me for saying that we should do exactly what Tumblr did but for all that it's worth, the NSFW ban on Tumblr did exactly what it was designed to do.


Tbh, I don't think thats gonna happen.

Tumblr did the NSFW ban because Yahoo wanted to make good on it's product. Plus the site is for [teenagers], so they had to step up.

The furry community has always been inherently cheeky. It started because artists wanted to draw cheeky shit. 
But you know, thats why they have _rules_ and they pay _mods_ to enforce those rules. If the users don't do their part and report what they don't like, then the rules aren't going to be enforced. Lackadaisically saying "NSFW artists are going to find a way to ensure I see their doggy pene art so cheeky furry art is banned" isn't a viable answer either.
Particularly because FA gets a good majority of their server and mod money from NSFW advertisers.


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## Lutro (Feb 24, 2020)

This is teetering dangerously close to "won't someone please think of the children" territory, and that's concerning.


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## PercyD (Feb 25, 2020)

Lutro said:


> This is teetering dangerously close to "won't someone please think of the children" territory, and that's concerning.


That is mildly concerning.

Though, my solution to that is to
(1) Firmly establish kinky spaces (I think FA has a thing for that)
(2) Ask people to report any kinky thing thats outside kinky spaces (FA could make that easier)
(3) Any minors caught in kinky spaces should be warned and removed

I don't really care nor do I want to talk about teenagers and their pron seeking habits. Water is wet. Just catch them and ban them, please.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Feb 25, 2020)

Tendo64 said:


> My theory is probably more pessimistic than everyone else's, but I have the feeling people do it because having it on general makes it reach more people--that is, it reaches not only the people with mature and adult content on, it also reaches those with safe-for-work mode. They don't stop to consider _why _that person is using safe-for-work mode, all they know is--the more people that see it, the more clicks they get.


That's the part I don't understand. Which people would they reach when they, say, advertise their lewd art through cropping out just the right bits to be able to promote it under a safe/general tag?
When I _specifically _set my FurAffinity account to not show me anything that isn't tagged as general/sfw I obviously do not want to see, let alone buy anything nsfw. When I see an advertisement going "I do this, that, _and also nsfw art_" I obviously still won't buy it. Looks like wasted effort in my eyes.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 25, 2020)

PercyD said:


> But you know, thats why they have _rules_ and they pay _mods_ to enforce those rules. If the users don't do their part and report what they don't like, then the rules aren't going to be enforced. Lackadaisically saying "NSFW artists are going to find a way to ensure I see their doggy pene art so cheeky furry art is banned" isn't a viable answer either.
> Particularly because FA gets a good majority of their server and mod money from NSFW advertisers.


Correction: mods are volunteers. No mod money involved. 
Other than that you’re pretty spot on - if you (gen) don’t report violations, nothing is going to get done about them, because staff won’t know they’re there.



PercyD said:


> (3) Any minors caught in kinky spaces should be warned and removed


One of the big hurdles where this is concerned is/seems to be that people have this idea that reporting minors in non-General spaces is snitching (in the worst possible way).
 I have more than once seen posts on mainsite where someone admits to being a minor, there’s continued interaction with someone else, it’s clear that the minor interacts with non-General content... yet no attempts to alert staff.

I’m willing to if not die so at least stay on this hill until I’m seriously maimed: people need to fucking report violations if they want the site rules to mean anything. (And honestly, if they want the site at all, because some of the stuff that goes unreported is a potential legal liability.)


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## ConorHyena (Feb 25, 2020)

TheCynicalViet said:


> I think the wrong question is "why?". In the grand scheme of things, we don't need to know why because there could be an infinite number of reasons why someone would post NSFW in /general/. In the end, it doesn't matter because the more important question is "how do you stop this?".
> 
> Personally, I'd say do a Tumblr and go scorched earth on any and all NSFW as that would be the most efficient way of stopping this problem. No NSFW means nobody can post any NSFW in /general/. It's not that I support censoring NSFW artists since I make NSFW myself. It's because users are gonna circumvent any possible countermeasure that you can come up with.  Blacklist tags? They'll find a way. Soft-ban NSFW artists (they can upload but their art will not be in any search results)? They'll find a way. Create a separate sister-site of FA exclusively for mature/adult art? You know damn well they're gonna post in the SFW version of the site anyways. That's just how it goes.
> 
> You may mock me for saying that we should do exactly what Tumblr did but for all that it's worth, the NSFW ban on Tumblr did exactly what it was designed to do.



This is more or less on the level of throwing out the child with the bath water - which I really don't support. It's also along the divisive "SFW vs NSFW Furries" topic which I despise as well. 

I think there's room for both NSFW and SFW stuff on FA. I don't think it's justified to ban an entire pile of artwork, artwork which people use, in cases, to make a living.

If I reverse this argument, it becomes apparent just how flawed it is - The reversal would be to just tell the SFW furries to suck it up and ignore it, they don't have to click.




quoting_mungo said:


> I’m willing to if not die so at least stay on this hill until I’m seriously maimed: people need to fucking report violations if they want the site rules to mean anything. (And honestly, if they want the site at all, because some of the stuff that goes unreported is a potential legal liability.)



This is very true - People need to report more.


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## PercyD (Feb 25, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> One of the big hurdles where this is concerned is/seems to be that people have this idea that reporting minors in non-General spaces is snitching (in the worst possible way).
> I have more than once seen posts on mainsite where someone admits to being a minor, there’s continued interaction with someone else, it’s clear that the minor interacts with non-General content... yet no attempts to alert staff.



Snitching?
Wtf?
Are we in high school? ???

Cause if you are in high school, one, you need to be banned--

A lot of the problem is that (young) people don't understand/don't know about boundaries. Thats one of the fundamental things about kinky spaces that make kinky spaces a safe/okay/enjoyable places to be in. Everyone respects everyone else's boundaries. 
Getting minors out of kinky spaces is a universal boundary that everyone should be working to uphold.

The fuck is this snitching business- thats indicative of someone who lacks understanding, and I guess thats my hill. 

Thanks for the correction as well, I appreciate your insight.


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## PercyD (Feb 25, 2020)

ClumsyWitch said:


> That's the part I don't understand. Which people would they reach when they, say, advertise their lewd art through cropping out just the right bits to be able to promote it under a safe/general tag?
> When I _specifically _set my FurAffinity account to not show me anything that isn't tagged as general/sfw I obviously do not want to see, let alone buy anything nsfw. When I see an advertisement going "I do this, that, _and also nsfw art_" I obviously still won't buy it. Looks like wasted effort in my eyes.


Btw, yea I agree. It is wasted effort. And it's indicative of someone who doesn't understand how business works.

You're gonna waste your resources selling to people who don't want to buy?  (???)

Thats why I think the "people are gonna abuse the general audience feature" argument lacks legs. Someone who is seriously trying to make money wouldn't waste their time with that. And if they are wasting their time with that, they need to be pulled aside and educated.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 25, 2020)

PercyD said:


> The fuck is this snitching business- thats indicative of someone who lacks understanding, and I guess thats my hill.


I don’t disagree. Sadly, it seems to be all too common an attitude. I’ve seen it on fchan (“don’t report it!” when someone accidentally posts DNP art, for instance) as well as on FA (people bitching about “some asshole reported me!” as well as similar “let’s not report it” sentiments). Artists who post journals complaining about people who reported them, and their followers joining in in comments as though the reporter did something wrong, probably don’t help matters.

I would love for people to take more responsibility for the site as a whole by reporting violations that they see, but I kinda despair of it happening, based on what I saw while I was on staff.


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## PercyD (Feb 25, 2020)

quoting_mungo said:


> I don’t disagree. Sadly, it seems to be all too common an attitude. I’ve seen it on fchan (“don’t report it!” when someone accidentally posts DNP art, for instance) as well as on FA (people bitching about “some asshole reported me!” as well as similar “let’s not report it” sentiments). Artists who post journals complaining about people who reported them, and their followers joining in in comments as though the reporter did something wrong, probably don’t help matters.
> 
> I would love for people to take more responsibility for the site as a whole by reporting violations that they see, but I kinda despair of it happening, based on what I saw while I was on staff.


I wish somebody would try to come at me sideways for reporting something where it shouldn't be.

What, at most you'll get a warning. Or banned for a day if you have some repeat offenses. But after two or three, bro. You had it coming--

At least (I don't think) its like youtube where people and companies weaponize the reporting system to take down content.


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## quoting_mungo (Feb 25, 2020)

PercyD said:


> At least (I don't think) its like youtube where people and companies weaponize the reporting system to take down content.


Indeed. Mass reporting doesn’t do anything on FA that a single report won’t. 

Reporting violations is _always_ the right move. Being a dick about being reported is _never_ the right solution.


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## TheCynicalViet (Feb 25, 2020)

PercyD said:


> Particularly because FA gets a good majority of their server and mod money from NSFW advertisers.


Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, that actually would throw a wrench in the whole NSFW ban thing.



ConorHyena said:


> I think there's room for both NSFW and SFW stuff on FA. I don't think it's justified to ban an entire pile of artwork, artwork which people use, in cases, to make a living.


Don't get me wrong, I do agree. I just think that given a situation where someone had lit a fire under the ass of FA's owner and demanded that they do something now. That something would most likely be a NSFW ban because it would be the easiest option. Not the best. Not even close to good. It would actually be a horrifically bad idea. But do you honestly believe that the owners of FA ( I mean the real owners, the IMVU company) would set aside time and money and invest into changing a site's framework for this kind of problem? I don't think so.


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## Lutro (Feb 25, 2020)

There's a sentiment going around in this thread that "if one is browsing SFW, they never want to see NSFW advertisements." Which I think is untrue. Not saying there are 0 users with that perspective! Just that "I don't want to ever see it, therefore _no-one_ ever wants to see it" is an incorrect statement.

And the only reason I'm harping on this is because some don't seem to comprehend that, outside those who incorrectly categorize their ads (they may assume "General" because the specific ad they post is SFW, or simply forget / don't think about the rating), those that do it intentionally do it because it works. They're not going to do it if it didn't garner more attention/views while also taking on the (slight) possibility of getting banned or otherwise-reprimanded.


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## Tendo64 (Feb 25, 2020)

Lutro said:


> There's a sentiment going around in this thread that "if one is browsing SFW, they never want to see NSFW advertisements." Which I think is untrue. Not saying there are 0 users with that perspective! Just that "I don't want to ever see it, therefore _no-one_ ever wants to see it" is an incorrect statement.
> 
> And the only reason I'm harping on this is because some don't seem to comprehend that, outside those who incorrectly categorize their ads (they may assume "General" because the specific ad they post is SFW, or simply forget / don't think about the rating), those that do it intentionally do it because it works. They're not going to do it if it didn't garner more attention/views while also taking on the (slight) possibility of getting banned or otherwise-reprimanded.


Even if it does work, a considerable chunk of those who use SFW mode are literal* children *and risking that just because you're hoping one or two people using it are just adults who are using it for two seconds pisses me off. 
(By the way, I mean "you" as a general "you"--not you in particular.)


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## PercyD (Feb 25, 2020)

Lutro said:


> There's a sentiment going around in this thread that "if one is browsing SFW, they never want to see NSFW advertisements." Which I think is untrue. Not saying there are 0 users with that perspective! Just that "I don't want to ever see it, therefore _no-one_ ever wants to see it" is an incorrect statement.
> 
> And the only reason I'm harping on this is because some don't seem to comprehend that, outside those who incorrectly categorize their ads (they may assume "General" because the specific ad they post is SFW, or simply forget / don't think about the rating), those that do it intentionally do it because it works. They're not going to do it if it didn't garner more attention/views while also taking on the (slight) possibility of getting banned or otherwise-reprimanded.





Tendo64 said:


> Even if it does work, a considerable chunk of those who use SFW mode are literal* children *and risking that just because you're hoping one or two people using it are just adults who are using it for two seconds pisses me off.
> (By the way, I mean "you" as a general "you"--not you in particular.)




I'm gonna take these two together =u=/

So, as an ace person sometimes I just don't want to see pene period. Or tiddy. Nevermind children and the general audience. *I* don't want to see it.

I should be able to click on the SFW and not see it. Doesnt matter if I'm at a bar, or if I'm on a train where theres children running around. If *I *don't want to see pene, gosh darn it, I have that right. As I said before, thats even part of being in kinky spaces. I should have the option to opt out. 

Right now, my option to opt out is taken away from me and thats really freggin problematic. Don't just think of the children, think of people who have healthy boundaries that are being breached right now. Thats what pisses me off.


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## Tendo64 (Feb 26, 2020)

PercyD said:


> Don't just think of the children, think of people who have healthy boundaries that are being breached right now. Thats what pisses me off.


I get that, and that's a problem I have with it as well. I was just pointing out that the fact minors are on the site is another more severe reason SFW mode needs to work as it should, because they _definitely _don't need to be seeing it.


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## PercyD (Feb 26, 2020)

Tendo64 said:


> I get that, and that's a problem I have with it as well. I was just pointing out that the fact minors are on the site is another more severe reason SFW mode needs to work as it should, because they _definitely _don't need to be seeing it.


I feel like at some point someone is going to come on here and state the obvious like-
"Well, if they want to see it they can lie about their age and-" ad nauseam.

Its why I hate even talking about what children should and should not be seeing. At this point, I don't even feel like it's a viable talking point, because it leads to people talking about the browsing habits of teenagers, the responsibility of parents and just *squint*.

*When I don't want to see pene*, I should have that option.


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## Lutro (Feb 26, 2020)

I agree that the option should definitely be there for those who want a clean viewing experience (as the "For Work" in "Not Safe For Work" means "nothing eyebrow-raising should be on the screen when you're browsing it).

My only motivation for the posts was to explain why it happens, since there was a lot of "I cannot fathom why NSFW artists posting NSFW ads in General are doing it" going on here as well. And the reason it seems to get results is because of what I explained in my previous post.

Not saying it's right. It is what it is. I believe going down the road of "just nuke NSFW content" is not only unrealistic, but grossly unfair to artists who do work in that space and are having more and more of their spaces removed from the Internet due to the "gotta cater to people 13-17" crowd. (Yes, they're "minors" but they're also teenagers, and I guarantee you we don't need people "fighting for their right" to be protected from the evils of NSFW material. Think this thread's still going a little overboard with this, as FA's one of the tamer NSFW sites out there if we're being completely honest.)

To repeat: You absolutely have the right to not see NSFW material when browsing SFW. In theory, that should work 100%. Whether it's lax moderation / reporting or some other reason, however, that's just not the case. And honestly? The option to be purely, 100% safe browsing FA in a public space (i.e. not seeing NSFW stuff, although I'd argue being on FA at all may raise brows anyway) is just not a tenable option at this point. Not unless the system is overhauled to very strictly enforce NSFW content, which I do not see happening any time in the near future. (Neither the never-happening "ban NSFW content" option nor some kind of "you flub it once and you're banned" sort of enforcement).


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