# The Contract on WinXP's Head



## ArielMT (Oct 26, 2010)

I'm now wondering if Windows XP will be the 20-year OS after all.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltren.../microsoftorderscomputermakerstokillwindowsxp

Microsoft put out the hit on XP by ordering PC makers not to install XP even as a "downgrade" option from Vista or 7.  The expected date of termination is the day 7SP1 comes out.  One would think that OEMs can still sell systems with an XP disk and key, seeing how XP will still get support until '14, but you'll have to nuke and pave it yourself for certain now.

It wouldn't be news, if not for all the applications people have become dependent on that only run in Windows XP or earlier versions.


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## Asswings (Oct 26, 2010)

Will canon make my scanner compatible now, then?


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## ArielMT (Oct 26, 2010)

And device drivers.  If not for *two* things, this wouldn't be news.  [/montypython]


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## Lapdog (Oct 27, 2010)

I miss C&C Generals already, it doesn't work on Vista/7 and my XP PC now has 7. Oh the joys of XP.


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## ToeClaws (Oct 27, 2010)

On one hand, I can't honestly say I blame Microsoft.  XP is old - it was being installed on OEM systems a decade ago just prior to public release.  It has enjoyed a very long stay as the most used OS in the world (ever, in fact), but that doesn't change the fact that it's 10 years old, and now 2 versions behind the current consumer OS by Microsoft.  As a company, they're just trying to get rid of the old thing and be done with it.

Now... I'm not saying the replacements are better because they certainly have lot of their own issues such as driver support, stricter EULA's, etc., but from a purely age-based standpoint, I can't really fault Microsoft for wanting XP to go away.

When it comes to family and friends who ask me about advice on what to do with computers and new OS's and stuff, I just lay out as honestly as possible for them so that they understand XP is nearing it's operational end, and if they get new systems with gobs of memory and resources, XP can't even make proper use of them.  I point out the changes of Windows 7 and some of its compatibility issues, I mention the various Linux/Unix options, and I mention taking the Apple route.  Each direction comes with its challenges, so best you can do is teach people enough to make an informed choice.


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## Carenath (Oct 27, 2010)

At least for (select) Windows 7 users, Microsoft does provide a full virtualised XP installation, this does work sufficiently well for regular applications but it lacks DirectX support (that I've noticed) for game support. At least for those with the odd game that won't run under 7, dual-booting could remain an option.


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## Runefox (Oct 27, 2010)

VirtualBox has Direct3D support in XP nowadays (must install the Guest Additions in Safe Mode to work), so that's less of a problem for people with an XP licence. I can play Fighters Anthology, Delta Force, and Fleet Command again! 8D

Well, actually, those games don't use Direct3D, and the only versions of Direct3D supported are 8 and 9. Still, it does HW acceleration, and also does OpenGL.


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## Carenath (Oct 27, 2010)

Runefox said:


> VirtualBox has Direct3D support in XP nowadays (must install the Guest Additions in Safe Mode to work), so that's less of a problem for people with an XP licence. I can play Fighters Anthology, Delta Force, and Fleet Command again! 8D
> 
> Well, actually, those games don't use Direct3D, and the only versions of Direct3D supported are 8 and 9. Still, it does HW acceleration, and also does OpenGL.


 I'm aware of this, my point was specifically referring to Microsoft's Virtual Machne system through which XP Mode operates. If one lacks an XP license to install XP within a Virtualbox container, one lacks the ability to run XP (legally) in a dual-boot scenario too, conversely if one has a license to install in a dual-boot scenario at least they have the choice of doing so, if they find Virtualbox to be lacking. For those without a license, relying solely on legally provided tools from Microsoft (i.e. XP Mode), there is no such backwards compatibility afforded to gamers wishing to continue playing old titles which are not supported let alone updated by the developer.


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## Runefox (Oct 27, 2010)

I was under the understanding that anyone with an XP Mode license also has a valid license for XP, so for those using XP Mode, VirtualBox might actually offer a solid alternative. I can't pull any info up regarding it, but is that not the case?


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## Joeyyy (Oct 27, 2010)

XP is like that really old pet that you have.  Its original and trustworthy, but you gotta put it down.


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## Runefox (Oct 27, 2010)

Joeyyy said:


> XP is like that really old pet that you have.  Its original and trustworthy, but you gotta put it down.


 
Funny thing was that back when XP was first coming onto the scene, it was a big, bloated behemoth whose system requirements were insanely high for the time, and many games initially either failed to run at all or ran more slowly than on Win9x - Win9x was, at the time, considered _the_ gaming platform and it wasn't predicted or recommended that many would jump ship. Of particular interest was the UI, which was a waste of resources and reeked of Fisher Price (which led many, myself included, to call it Windows FP). XP was the next ME as far as everyone was concerned, and if you were going to use an NT-based OS, you'd use Windows 2000, not XP.

Strange how XP is remembered today as a wonderful mainstay.


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## AshleyAshes (Oct 27, 2010)

My Intel Atom N450 netbook wouldn't run 720p h.264 content without dropping frames untill I put XP and CoreAVC on it. 

That said, XP is used in plenty of embedded systems.  Even the POS at my grocery store is running WinXP for example and as POS's and other embedded systems are turn key systems, there's really no need to upgrade any time soon.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Oct 27, 2010)

Asswings said:


> Will canon make my scanner compatible now, then?


 
Holy fuck, this.  This is the only reason why I keep my old laptop.


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## Carenath (Oct 27, 2010)

Runefox said:


> I was under the understanding that anyone with an XP Mode license also has a valid license for XP, so for those using XP Mode, VirtualBox might actually offer a solid alternative. I can't pull any info up regarding it, but is that not the case?


 So far as I know, and Im open to correction, XP Mode is licensed *only* for running applications which are incompatible with Windows 7 and is not a separate license for Windows XP in addition to your existing Windows 7 license. Of course, if XP Mode is run using VirtualBox for that purpose, you would not be violating the terms of your license.. as I understand them. I believe from VirtualBox, you can create another 'instance' of that XP Mode installation for this purpose, I just have not tested this.


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## Kihari (Oct 28, 2010)

Hopefully netbook hardware will catch up fast enough, then.

As an aside, I wonder whether or not, when the end comes, Microsoft will release a patch to disable the WPA requirement (for, say, reinstallations using your own disc) or completely leave XP users out in the cold.


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## Joeyyy (Oct 28, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Funny thing was that back when XP was first coming onto the scene, it was a big, bloated behemoth whose system requirements were insanely high for the time, and many games initially either failed to run at all or ran more slowly than on Win9x - Win9x was, at the time, considered _the_ gaming platform and it wasn't predicted or recommended that many would jump ship. Of particular interest was the UI, which was a waste of resources and reeked of Fisher Price (which led many, myself included, to call it Windows FP). XP was the next ME as far as everyone was concerned, and if you were going to use an NT-based OS, you'd use Windows 2000, not XP.
> 
> Strange how XP is remembered today as a wonderful mainstay.


I think what did it for XP was the new shiny display to it.
You know people dont care for how well it runs and the system requirements... as long as it looks pretty. haha


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## ArielMT (Oct 28, 2010)

Joeyyy said:


> I think what did it for XP was the new shiny display to it.
> You know people dont care for how well it runs and the system requirements... as long as it looks pretty. haha



Not really.  Word got around quickly about how to make XP look and work like 98.

XP's major improvement to Windows was also among its greatest complaints: Bringing Windows NT into the home, ending the line for MS-DOS as the host kernel and the DOS compatibility that remained in Windows ME.  At the time, most people were comparing it to Windows 98SE, not ME, for reasons Vista reminded the world of.  No, people cared that they would have to learn how to use their computers all over again, as they do with every new version of Windows, or that they'd have to upgrade everything, not just Windows.

Also, product activation.  Beginning with Windows XP, it wasn't enough anymore to enter the 25-character product key, you had to then activate it with Microsoft.  Over the 'Net if you were lucky, struggling over the phone if you weren't.  Oh, and lather, rinse, and repeat on your third hardware change.

Oh! Trivia!  My first deep dive into the world of Linux began when I was ready to build my first PC from scratch in '02.  I wound up buying everything from the same local store, but they didn't have any copies of Windows 2000 Pro left, either OEM or retail, and I wasn't interested in Windows XP.  So I took my collection of parts home without an OS and decided I'd experiment with some Linux distros before buying Win2K elsewere.  I never shopped for Win2K again.


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## ArielMT (Oct 29, 2010)

Kihari said:


> Hopefully netbook hardware will catch up fast enough, then.



It already has.  My $200 eMachines eM250 netbook came with Windows 7 preinstalled.  It's plenty beefy enough to handle Windows XP.



Kihari said:


> As an aside, I wonder whether or not, when the end comes, Microsoft will release a patch to disable the WPA requirement (for, say, reinstallations using your own disc) or completely leave XP users out in the cold.


 
No to both.

Microsoft will still require product activation right up to the end, then they'll move it into unsupported phase without releasing a patch to disable that requirement, just like they never released generic product keys for already-unsupported versions of Windows.

However, even today, they're still providing the Windows Update and Automatic Updates services to unsupported versions of Windows, all the way back to Windows for Workgroups.  They're not writing or releasing any new updates, but all the updates that were released while they were still supported are still available on Windows Update, and they're still being pushed through Automatic Updates.  When support for XP ends, they'll very likely do something similar: leave the product activation server online.  They won't take either offline until nothing supported at the time has a need for it.


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## net-cat (Oct 31, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Funny thing was that back when XP was first coming onto the scene, it was a big, bloated behemoth whose system requirements were insanely high for the time, and many games initially either failed to run at all or ran more slowly than on Win9x - Win9x was, at the time, considered _the_ gaming platform and it wasn't predicted or recommended that many would jump ship. Of particular interest was the UI, which was a waste of resources and reeked of Fisher Price (which led many, myself included, to call it Windows FP). XP was the next ME as far as everyone was concerned, and if you were going to use an NT-based OS, you'd use Windows 2000, not XP.
> 
> Strange how XP is remembered today as a wonderful mainstay.


Ah, yes. Fisher-Price theme. It says something that, even to this day, Microsoft is still including the "Windows Classic" theme in Windows. 

It was no great stretch for me to jump to Windows XP, as I was going from Windows 2000 and not Windows 98. Still, I waited until SP1.



AshleyAshes said:


> That said, XP is used in plenty of embedded systems.  Even the POS at my grocery store is running WinXP for example and as POS's and other embedded systems are turn key systems, there's really no need to upgrade any time soon.


This. Embedded systems are a different animal. In that case, the operating system isn't an operating system so much as it is firmware and should be treated as such. In the PoS example, the terminals are probably not hooked to the internet and probably don't have user-accessible USB ports or disk drives. (And if they do, that's just dumb.) Microsoft was actually still selling Windows 3.1 to embedded device makers in 2008. (Even though support stopped in 2001.) Windows XP is so entrenched, I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if XP lived on for 20 years for embedded systems.



ArielMT said:


> Microsoft will still require product activation right up to the end, then they'll move it into unsupported phase without releasing a patch to disable that requirement, just like they never released generic product keys for already-unsupported versions of Windows.
> 
> However, even today, they're still providing the Windows Update and Automatic Updates services to unsupported versions of Windows, all the way back to Windows for Workgroups.  They're not writing or releasing any new updates, but all the updates that were released while they were still supported are still available on Windows Update, and they're still being pushed through Automatic Updates.  When support for XP ends, they'll very likely do something similar: leave the product activation server online.  They won't take either offline until nothing supported at the time has a need for it.


There are also a ton of VLKs out in the seedier places of the internet that work just fine without activation.


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## AlpineLupine (Nov 1, 2010)

net-cat said:


> Embedded systems are a different animal.


 
Heh.


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## AshleyAshes (Nov 1, 2010)

net-cat said:


> This. Embedded systems are a different animal. In that case, the operating system isn't an operating system so much as it is firmware and should be treated as such. In the PoS example, the terminals are probably not hooked to the internet and probably don't have user-accessible USB ports or disk drives. (And if they do, that's just dumb.) Microsoft was actually still selling Windows 3.1 to embedded device makers in 2008. (Even though support stopped in 2001.) Windows XP is so entrenched, I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if XP lived on for 20 years for embedded systems.


 
I imagine that they are connected to the internet but don't go onto the web.  Afterall POS's reporting sales figures, purchasing trends and such directly to the head office would be in demand.  But yeah, since they arn't going onto the web they would be a lot more secure than an actual 'PC' in the traditional sense.


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## CAThulu (Nov 2, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> I imagine that they are connected to the internet but don't go onto the web.  Afterall POS's reporting sales figures, purchasing trends and such directly to the head office would be in demand.  But yeah, since they arn't going onto the web they would be a lot more secure than an actual 'PC' in the traditional sense.


 
That's exactly right.  They have to be connected to the internet so that they can tap into each store to see who has what in their inventory, etc.  This was really helpful at the clothing store I worked at so we could coordinate pulling in 8 dresses in 6 different sizes for a bridal party from all over Canada.  

The internet is also used to send the data from receiving shipment to head office, but god help you if the PDT crashed on a 120 box shipment and the damn thing wouldn't accept a rescan.  

But all the programs all run on top of an XP o/s.  For what it needs to do it works well enough


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