# Tumblr And "Kin"



## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 23, 2018)

I'm gonna start off by saying this is NOT targeted at a single individual,  it is about Tumblr kids in general. Specifically "fiction kin" and "doubles". It really reaaaaallllllyyyy annoys me when people be like " Don't follow if you are a double!" Excuse me?  Now,  I dont really understand otherkin (or Tumblr in general) but your literally telling others not to follow you _if they relate to the same character that you do. 
_
If I like the persons art, stories,  etc you bet your tail end I'm gonna follow them. Heck you should be GRATEFUL that you have followers instead of telling them to back off because they relate to a fictional character that you do. 

I don't support DFI lists in general,  unless you have legit reasons to not want someone following you like they're a pedophile or something,  not stupid stuff like being an otherkin double or whatever or shipping a pairing you don't, or stuff like that. 

Sorry I had to get this out, Tumblr annoys me sometimes.


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## WolfyAmbassador (Mar 23, 2018)

Tumblr and the furry fandom in a nutshell:


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## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 23, 2018)

WolfyAmbassador said:


> Tumblr and the furry fandom in a nutshell:


That's... Accurate.  I can't believe there's people out there that are like this.  It's so off-putting especially if they're "kin" with a character you like. I don't mind the sane ones who just relate to a character,  I mean the ones that go way too far.


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## WolfyAmbassador (Mar 23, 2018)

The Shiny Espeon said:


> That's... Accurate.  I can't believe there's people out there that are like this.  It's so off-putting especially if they're "kin" With a a character you like. I don't mind the sane ones who just relate to a character,  I mean the ones that go way too far.


 They all act like "individuals" to the point where nobody is anymore. lol


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## ResolutionBlaze (Mar 23, 2018)

I go on Tumblr because I hate myself.

Also because I'm looking for some semblance of challenge for my own beliefs, and I think the best way to do that is to plunge head-first into the cesspool.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 23, 2018)

What's a double?


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## Diretooth (Mar 23, 2018)

As a ''Kin' myself, I can state with certainty that most ''Kin' on Tumblr are people who are taking something that is legitimately meaningful to a lot of people and are turning it into an 'OMG i'm so speshul!' thing. First off, fictionkin, while tolerated, are usually ignored or outright ostracized if they identify with a specific character rather than a species, and tying into that, nobody who is remotely sane within the Therian/Otherkin community would _ever_ be that fucking rude if someone shared a 'kintype with them.
We're all just a bunch of people who either identify as a non-human animal or have species dysphoria, the jury's still out on that as far as non-spiritual things go. Some feel like they're reincarnated (x species) in a human body, some feel like it's just a mental thing and learn how to live with it, and then you get the tumblrkin who are either blatant trolls or special snowflakes who see something unusual and 'misunderstood' and decide that it's for them, ignoring at least a decade of history and people coming together to understand why the hell they have acted a certain way since childhood.
And unlike tumblrkin seem to, we recognize we're Human, because it's blatantly obvious.

@Ovi the Dragon In Tumblrkin parlance, a double is anyone who identifies as a specific character, like Garrus from Mass Effect or the Arbiter from Halo, while another identifies similarly. It's asinine and it's stupid.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 23, 2018)

"Species dysphoria"


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## ResolutionBlaze (Mar 23, 2018)

Diretooth said:


> As a ''Kin' myself, I can state with certainty that most ''Kin' on Tumblr are people who are taking something that is legitimately meaningful to a lot of people and are turning it into an 'OMG i'm so speshul!' thing. First off, fictionkin, while tolerated, are usually ignored or outright ostracized if they identify with a specific character rather than a species, and tying into that, nobody who is remotely sane within the Therian/Otherkin community would _ever_ be that fucking rude if someone shared a 'kintype with them.
> We're all just a bunch of people who either identify as a non-human animal or have species dysphoria, the jury's still out on that as far as non-spiritual things go. Some feel like they're reincarnated (x species) in a human body, some feel like it's just a mental thing and learn how to live with it, and then you get the tumblrkin who are either blatant trolls or special snowflakes who see something unusual and 'misunderstood' and decide that it's for them, ignoring at least a decade of history and people coming together to understand why the hell they have acted a certain way since childhood.
> And unlike tumblrkin seem to, we recognize we're Human, because it's blatantly obvious.
> 
> @Ovi the Dragon In Tumblrkin parlance, a double is anyone who identifies as a specific character, like Garrus from Mass Effect or the Arbiter from Halo, while another identifies similarly. It's asinine and it's stupid.



Wait you mean literally identify?

How is that even possible?


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 23, 2018)




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## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 23, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> What's a double?


A double is from my understanding,  is someone is also kin with that same character as someone else. For some reason double shaming seems to be the norm among a lot of kin types.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 23, 2018)

The Shiny Espeon said:


> A double is from my understanding,  is someone is also kin with that same character as someone else. For some reason double shaming seems to be the norm among a lot of kin types.


Well then. I guess that's interesting?


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## Diretooth (Mar 23, 2018)

ResolutionBlaze said:


> Wait you mean literally identify? How is that even possible?


It's fairly simple. I identify as a Dire Wolf Therianthrope. This means that based on what I understand and what I've experienced with mental and phantom shifts, (shifts where my mind state changes to that of a wolf, a shift where I feel phantom limbs appropriate to my theriotype,) as well as personal spiritual leanings, I am a Dire Wolf within a physical Human body. Such shifts are usually not easily controlled, and they can have certain triggers, one such for me is being threatened with bodily harm, I start growling without realizing it, I bare my teeth, and I stare at the one threatening me until they either make a move against me or I decide to flee. This is only one example.



The Shiny Espeon said:


> For some reason double shaming seems to be the norm among a lot of kin types.


The reason is primarily because people identifying as specific characters is widely considered by most sane Therians to be either roleplaying or general craziness. Doesn't matter if there's one, two, or ten.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 23, 2018)




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## Diretooth (Mar 23, 2018)

@Ovi the Dragon I actually know them, the people who made that actually had to pay them because they kept refusing. At least it made a good meme.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 23, 2018)

Diretooth said:


> @Ovi the Dragon I actually know them, the people who made that actually had to pay them because they kept refusing. At least it made a good meme.


Well then


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## ResolutionBlaze (Mar 23, 2018)

Diretooth said:


> It's fairly simple. I identify as a Dire Wolf Therianthrope. This means that based on what I understand and what I've experienced with mental and phantom shifts, (shifts where my mind state changes to that of a wolf, a shift where I feel phantom limbs appropriate to my theriotype,) as well as personal spiritual leanings, I am a Dire Wolf within a physical Human body. Such shifts are usually not easily controlled, and they can have certain triggers, one such for me is being threatened with bodily harm, I start growling without realizing it, I bare my teeth, and I stare at the one threatening me until they either make a move against me or I decide to flee. This is only one example.
> 
> 
> The reason is primarily because people identifying as specific characters is widely considered by most sane Therians to be either roleplaying or general craziness. Doesn't matter if there's one, two, or ten.



I'd challenge that notion but that would mean challenging your entire conception of your own existence, which I don't think is appropriate for a thread nor in your own best interests unless you allow me to.


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## quoting_mungo (Mar 23, 2018)

I find the whole notion of "don't follow if" to be pretty rude; my Tumblr does have a "before you follow" thingy, but rather than demanding something of potential followers, it's just "here's some things about me that I realize could bother some people, so please be aware of this so we don't have a problem". If people don't read it, NBD, I'm not the Tumblr police, but it's there for the people who find it useful.

Basically following is something you do for you, so I have no right to go "don't follow if you..." - similar to how "if you unfollow me you have to tell me why" is rude as fuck.
Except maybe in cases of people who do NSFW stuff say "don't follow if you're under 18" - that has a rational reason behind it.


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## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 24, 2018)

quoting_mungo said:


> I find the whole notion of "don't follow if" to be pretty rude; my Tumblr does have a "before you follow" thingy, but rather than demanding something of potential followers, it's just "here's some things about me that I realize could bother some people, so please be aware of this so we don't have a problem". If people don't read it, NBD, I'm not the Tumblr police, but it's there for the people who find it useful.
> 
> Basically following is something you do for you, so I have no right to go "don't follow if you..." - similar to how "if you unfollow me you have to tell me why" is rude as fuck.
> Except maybe in cases of people who do NSFW stuff say "don't follow if you're under 18" - that has a rational reason behind it.



I like this. I support before you follow lists,  which is just a little heads up about the blog or admin. DFI is just so... ugh.  How can you have a whole list of things random people MUST abide by or they can't follow you? Seriously? I ran into this so many times on Tumblr it's unreal. You can't demand a thing of your followers and can't force them to abide by your little TOS. 

 Now,  NSFW blogs on the other hand, are different,  it could lead to repercussions if a person under the age of 18 follows the blog.


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## DoeDog (Mar 26, 2018)

I don't know, I've never had anything negative come to me from tumblr, maybe because I don't read, I don't give a fuck, and I only follow artists I like and like to see the shit they draw, nothing else, plus I never interact with anyone.


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## ChapterAquila92 (Mar 26, 2018)

Say no more about Tumblr in general. On top of it being yet another social media platform I have little interest in joining, I have seen enough of that kind of insanity among users on other platforms (i.e. DeviantArt, Facebook, and of course FurAffinity) to not want much to do with it elsewhere.

Where otherkin are concerned, the Tumblrinas that go full ham with this certainly aren't doing themselves or fellow 'kin any favours, such that Mister Metokur had quite a bit to say on the matter.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Mar 26, 2018)

There is no science to otherkins, their madness should be stopped


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Mar 26, 2018)

Tumblr is the nuthouse of the Internet. I suggest leaving as quickly as you can.


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## Ginza (Mar 26, 2018)

I have no problem with people who like to think they’re wolves inside/in a past life. Honestly, I don’t give a shit what you do with your time. However, don’t force it on me, nor try to claim it’s real. In fairness though, who is to say that thinking you’re a wolf, is any more insane than having a religion? Neither things are truly proven to be true or false.

In the end, Tumblr is a shitshow, hellsite that I don’t bother with. I have one to store art, and view some artists, but that’s it. The amount of political garbage, and outright degeneracy, is far too much for me to stomach


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## Troj (Mar 26, 2018)

I hate to sound like a grandma here, but I always find myself wondering, _"Where the fuck are the parents?"
_
Of course, kids will be silly and immature, and will go through phases that they'll eventually outgrow.  Status Quo Warriors and oldsters sound stupid, crazy, and out-of-touch when they "Chicken Little" over 12-year-olds who identify as demisexual agender transracial microwave-kin with headmates who are triggered by G2 MLP and ham sandwiches. This, too, shall  pass.

But, still, I find myself wondering if parents realize how seriously their kids sometimes take this stuff, and if they understand that their kids are making utter jackasses of themselves in the world stage in ways that _could_ potentially follow them _forever.
_
Part of the problem appears to be that many parents are deeply intimidated by both the Internet and by youth culture, so they don't even want to touch any of it with a ten foot pole. Bad call! Wrong choice!

Going out on a bit of a limb, I also wonder how many of these kids are on the spectrum or are otherwise "different," and the long-suffering, thoroughly-flummoxed-and-overwhelmed parents have just thrown up their hands and said, "Hell, at least they're having fun and staying out of trouble."

From there, I'd imagine that people who genuinely identify as therians or otherkin (not to mention LGBTQ+ people and others) probably find these kids immensely irritating. The therians I've known have largely tended to be unassuming folks who simply want to go about their lives in peace.



The Shiny Espeon said:


> It really reaaaaallllllyyyy annoys me when people be like " Don't follow if you are a double!" Excuse me?



This is what I mean. This is, at bottom, a form of snobbery and cliquishness--over something _monumentally stupid and trivial, _no less--and if a parent knows about this, in my estimation, they  should tell their kid to _cut it the fuck out._


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## noveltybest (Mar 26, 2018)

you mean kids who wish that's what the fandoms is all about.


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## MoguMoguArt (Mar 26, 2018)

Honestly when they tell me not to follow or not to interact i back off slowly because that's an indication that they're batshit crazy and i don't wanna be following a person like that anyway


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## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 26, 2018)

Troj said:


> I hate to sound like a grandma here, but I always find myself wondering, _"Where the fuck are the parents?"
> _
> Of course, kids will be silly and immature, and will go through phases that they'll eventually outgrow.  Status Quo Warriors and oldsters sound stupid, crazy, and out-of-touch when they "Chicken Little" over 12-year-olds who identify as demisexual agender transracial microwave-kin with headmates who are triggered by G2 MLP and ham sandwiches. This, too, shall  pass.
> 
> ...



I have no kin types,but Im tempted to follow an anti-double blog, and say "yeah I'm kin with (insert character here) what are you gonna do about it?" But I have better things to do and wish not to start drama.


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## Illuminaughty (Mar 27, 2018)

I agree with Troj in that a lot of it happens because no one who has the capability to influence these young people's bad behaviour for the better is wise that it's even happening.

I don't think parents should be able to snoop in their children's belongings or police every facet of their life- kids need to make mistakes and learn things their own way so they can proceed to navigate adult life in the same way. And they deserve the same basic respect that adult humans do. *However, kids need structure and guidance.*
The biggest issue with that, is that if a parent doesn't cultivate a relationship with their child that honours mutual respect, trust, affection and confidentiality, as well as knowing that they can come to a parent with any issue and receive assistance without judgement, then the child is a lot less likely to actually do that.

That said, tumblr has a lot of crap, but it's also primarily what you make it. If you dislike a thing, don't seek it out. Follow people who post things you personally enjoy looking at/reading, block people who make you uncomfortable. You are the master of your experience, and you don't have to look at things you don't like.

Honestly, while today's society is a little.. Bizarre, in terms of social justice and politics and all that, I don't think it's the shape of things to come. More like, the things to come are taking shape and what we see now is just the growing pains. To get to better places, we have to go through some trouble on the way. Today's society is a better place to live than any other time in history, especially for some groups of people who have been legitimately oppressed throughout known history. There's no ifs ands or buts around that- we value life and freedom and personal expression now more than almost any other time in history and I think that, in time, things will begin to settle a bit as we advance into the next stages of societal development. There's work to be done, of course, but there always is, always was, and always will be. Constant learning and development is an intrinsic part of the human experience.


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## Katook (Mar 27, 2018)

According to my therapist, otherkin and identifying with fictional characters or different species is a healthy coping mechanism (the satire/joking/obnoxious people on tumblr who give the otherkin the rap of being weirdos are mostly satire. It's a mentality more than anything else, a form of dissociation that is different in the sense you have separated from "you" to adopt the mentality of your kin.

To say there is no science to it is entirely ignorant and the ignorance towards science and mental health in this community is gross.


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## Inkblooded (Mar 27, 2018)

kin = roleplayers, only advanced


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## RaverMonki (Mar 27, 2018)

I understand if you believe in reincarnation or whatever.. but fiction and otherkin is really... idiotic.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 27, 2018)

RaverMonki said:


> I understand if you believe in reincarnation or whatever.. but fiction and otherkin is really... idiotic.


It's a coping mechanism. Most otherkin or therian have mental disorders that make life hard. They think they are so different from everyone that they must not be human. And then normally their animal is their favorite one or favorite character. I know because I used to believe I was a dragon. But the true thing is I had really bad depression and a bad case of general anxiety disorder. It's rather sad really. However I think people need to step up and tell people when they are living a lie. People who come in and tell you to stop being mean just for telling things how they are don't help a person who actually has problems. Not only that but when fake things come up like "species dysphoria" that @Diretooth brought up, it takes away the severity of actual dysphoria disorders. Like gender dysphoria that trans people go through. Species dysphoria is in no way real because we have no connection to other species except by having a common ancestor.


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## RaverMonki (Mar 27, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> It's a coping mechanism. Most otherkin or therian have mental disorders that make life hard. They think they are so different from everyone that they must not be human. And then normally their animal is their favorite one or favorite character. I know because I used to believe I was a dragon. But the true thing is I had really bad depression and a bad case of general anxiety disorder. It's rather sad really. However I think people need to step up and tell people when they are living a lie. People who come in and tell you to stop being mean just for telling things how they are don't help a person who actually has problems. Not only that but when fake things come up like "species dysphoria" that @Diretooth brought up, it takes away the severity of actual dysphoria disorders. Like gender dysphoria that trans people go through. Species dysphoria is in no way real because we have no connection to other species except by having a common ancestor.


I am 100% supportive of relating to a character or creature as a coping mechanism, but when you get convinced you are one and claim to have false memories it becomes unhealthy. Congrats on you finding a better solution though.


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## Katook (Mar 28, 2018)

RaverMonki said:


> I am 100% supportive of relating to a character or creature as a coping mechanism, but when you get convinced you are one and claim to have false memories it becomes unhealthy. Congrats on you finding a better solution though.




Is it unhealthy if it doesn't hinder your everyday life or interactions with others? Even with the 'false memories'?


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## ChapterAquila92 (Mar 28, 2018)

Katook said:


> Is it unhealthy if it doesn't hinder your everyday life or interactions with others? Even with the 'false memories'?


So long as it doesn't lead to you tilting at windmills like a modern Don Quixote, I guess.


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## Katook (Mar 28, 2018)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> So long as it doesn't lead to you tilting at windmills like a modern Don Quixote, I guess.


That's a fair answer haha I haven't experienced false memories really myself except for maybe one but it's nothing that really has any affect on day to day life and is close enough to just me being overly imaginative in combination of my ptsd(which the fictional character I associate with has)


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## RaverMonki (Mar 28, 2018)

Katook said:


> Is it unhealthy if it doesn't hinder your everyday life or interactions with others? Even with the 'false memories'?


Its unhealthy because it warps your sense of reality. Being convinced of something not possible is a manifestation of something more serious like a mental illness.


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## ChapterAquila92 (Mar 28, 2018)

RaverMonki said:


> Its unhealthy because it warps your sense of reality. Being convinced of something not possible is a manifestation of something more serious like a mental illness.


Or a function of society in general. Gods, money, corporations, nations, human rights... none of these fictions physically exist, yet because we find them to be useful abstractions we're willing to intersubjectively believe that they do without any proof.


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## Pipistrele (Mar 28, 2018)

From my experience on FAF, furries are way more dramatic and whiny about small stuff than Tumblr users could ever hope to be.


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## Troj (Mar 28, 2018)

Illuminaughty said:


> I agree with Troj in that a lot of it happens because no one who has the capability to influence these young people's bad behaviour for the better is wise that it's even happening.
> 
> I don't think parents should be able to snoop in their children's belongings or police every facet of their life- kids need to make mistakes and learn things their own way so they can proceed to navigate adult life in the same way. And they deserve the same basic respect that adult humans do. *However, kids need structure and guidance.*
> The biggest issue with that, is that if a parent doesn't cultivate a relationship with their child that honours mutual respect, trust, affection and confidentiality, as well as knowing that they can come to a parent with any issue and receive assistance without judgement, then the child is a lot less likely to actually do that.



Generally, I think actual snooping should be reserved for dire, serious, life-threatening situations, because once you've crossed that bridge, you can never cross back again. Snooping should not be done lightly!

But, if you forge a trusting, open relationship with the kid from the time they're little, and regularly check in with them about what they've been up to and how they've been feeling, you won't _have_ to snoop unless something seriously goes off the rails. 

You are absolutely right that kids need structure and guidance from the beginning. Some parents make the mistake of getting so enamored of their kids' smallness and cuteness that they only end up trying to impose limits or standards at the 11th hour, when the kid's behavior is already out of control.


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## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 30, 2018)

Pipistrele said:


> From my experience on FAF, furries are way more dramatic and whiny about small stuff than Tumblr users could ever hope to be.



Actually yes. While Tumblr can be toxic yes I have seen my fair share of furry drama.


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## Diretooth (Mar 30, 2018)

@Ovi the Dragon Given that I actually do at times feel very much not human at random intervals, and that I actually feel like I do not belong in this body, I'd say that what I feel on a daily basis is not just a 'fake thing'. This isn't some murry purry feel good session for me, and it isn't that way for several others like me. I've had to learn how to deal with it so that I'm not doing something blatantly unusual in public. I was always like this, even before I heard the term 'Therianthrope' or 'Otherkin'.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Mar 30, 2018)

Diretooth said:


> @Ovi the Dragon Given that I actually do at times feel very much not human at random intervals, and that I actually feel like I do not belong in this body, I'd say that what I feel on a daily basis is not just a 'fake thing'. This isn't some murry purry feel good session for me, and it isn't that way for several others like me. I've had to learn how to deal with it so that I'm not doing something blatantly unusual in public. I was always like this, even before I heard the term 'Therianthrope' or 'Otherkin'.


You think it's completely true and that is why it is called a delusion. There is no evidence that it is in any way real.


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## lupi900 (Mar 30, 2018)

Katook said:


> According to my therapist, otherkin and identifying with fictional characters or different species is a healthy coping mechanism (the satire/joking/obnoxious people on tumblr who give the otherkin the rap of being weirdos are mostly satire. It's a mentality more than anything else, a form of dissociation that is different in the sense you have separated from "you" to adopt the mentality of your kin.
> 
> To say there is no science to it is entirely ignorant and the ignorance towards science and mental health in this community is gross.



The user you referencing is just a worthless troll. He in another thread tried to argue how feral sonas are borderline bestiality, while going by his logic his sona would be that too because of snout's/tail's.


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## Katook (Mar 31, 2018)

lupi900 said:


> The user you referencing is just a worthless troll. He in another thread tried to argue how feral sonas are borderline bestiality, while going by his logic his sona would be that too because of snout's/tail's.




Ooooh I see  I can't always tell the trolls from the serious(ly misguided) people.


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## lupi900 (Mar 31, 2018)

Katook said:


> Ooooh I see  I can't always tell the trolls from the serious(ly misguided) people.



Yeah, i can tell he a troll since he never once argued back at any of our call out's. He gave it away when he called me triggered over his ignorance on drugs.


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## PolarizedBear (Mar 31, 2018)

WolfyAmbassador said:


> Tumblr and the furry fandom in a nutshell:


Wonder how he manages a job with his hair like that.


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## The Shiny Espeon (Mar 31, 2018)

lupi900 said:


> The user you referencing is just a worthless troll. He in another thread tried to argue how feral sonas are borderline bestiality, while going by his logic his sona would be that too because of snout's/tail's.



Wait wtf? What thread is that? I don't think ive ever seen something like that. I've drawn my fursonas and OCs feral before many times and don't see how a regular SFW drawing would be bestiality.


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## lupi900 (Apr 1, 2018)

The Shiny Espeon said:


> Wait wtf? What thread is that? I don't think ive ever seen something like that. I've drawn my fursonas and OCs feral before many times and don't see how a regular SFW drawing would be bestiality.



forums.furaffinity.net: Feral yiff assumed to be zoophilia

Here the thread the user stops posting after called out on flawed logic.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> I feel like I’m going to get jumped or something from saying this, but I am otherkin as well. I chalk it up to some deep-rooted thing from childhood, as I’ve been having very vague phantom limbs for as long as I can remember. I’ve been otherkin before I knew the (quite terrible) community existed. I don’t have “memories” or anything like that. Just these fucked up phantom limbs that won’t leave me alone. I kind of hate being otherkin, but it’s not like it’s sometbing I can just turn off. It’s not some kind of arbitrary choice, and people who claim it is are trolls or delusional. Most otherkin you see on Tumblr aren’t real, they’re just trying to be special and jumping on a bandwagon.
> 
> Fictionkin and complaining about doubles on Tumblr are awful. Actually, Tumblr in general is just awful, especially the kin community. Meaningful connections with other otherkin are very hard to find, considering the sheer amount of fruitcakes out there. But you can find them, and once you do it’s amazing how you can relate through this one common quality.
> 
> ...


You believe it to be true. That is why it is called a delusion.


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Apr 1, 2018)

You people need to get a hobby.
That is, a different hobby. Like going hiking or something, something outside of the internet.

I have phantom wings. I have a phantom tail. Lots of people do.
It doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean I'm some kind of "angel lizard" trapped in an inferior body.
It just means that I probably have an overactive imagination, or I didn't grow out of childish bullshit due to a crappy childhood.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> According to the DSM-V page 87:
> 
> _Delusions are fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence. Their content may include a variety of themes (e.g., persecutory, referential, somatic, religious, grandiose). Persecutory delusions (i.e., belief that one is going to be harmed, harassed, and so forth by an individual, organization, or other group) are most common. Referential delusions (i.e., belief that certain gestures, comments, environmental cues, and so forth are directed at oneself) are also common. Grandiose delusions (i.e., when an individual believes that he or she has exceptional abilities, wealth, or fame) and érotomanie delusions (i.e., when an individual believes falsely that another person is in love with him or her) are also seen. Nihilistic delusions involve the conviction that a major catastrophe will occur, and somatic delusions focus on preoccupations regarding health and organ function._
> 
> ...


There's so much of what you just said that there is absolutely no evidence for. Anecdotes can only take you so far.


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 1, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> There's so much of what you just said that there is absolutely no evidence for. Anecdotes can only take you so far.


question: say that you convince her that she's delusional, then what? what have you gained? what good does it do? 

imo there ain't much point in trying to armchair psychoanalyze someone who isn't a bother to themselves or others. and empress seems nice and not harmful to anyone. like, she doesn't need "saving" or anything, so what's the point?​


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

I'm pretty sure if you asked any doctor what they think they'd say you're delusional as well.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> I have, and they agree that I have a profound experience that can’t be explained, but have reassured that me that I am not crazy. They said they were sorry I had to live with this for so long without anyone to talk to or compare my otherkinity with. They said they wished I didn’t have to go through this alone. The doctor said absolutely nothing about being delusional, because MY IDENTITY IS NOT A DELUSION. YOU WILL NEVER CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE.
> 
> Also I like how you totally ignore what I’m saying and repeat the same thing over and over with no evidence or explanation.


Just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it is. You are litterally making claims that you have no proof of. Burden of proof is on you. Not me. There's no connection humans have to any other animal than a common ancestor.


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## Ginza (Apr 1, 2018)

In fairness to what @Ovi the Dragon is saying, there really is no tangible proof that "otherkinism" is a result of a legit mental disorder. For example, I often see it compared to gender dysphoria- which is a very real mental illness. However, I find this pretty disgusting to compare tbh. Gender dysphoria is an actual, legitimate mental illness, and those who suffer are shown to have brains which are very close to that of their "felt" sex rather than their biological one. Meanwhile, nobody has found any abnormalities in the brains of those who consider themselves to be "otherkin". The only good explanation for it that we have as of right now, would be that it is simply another example of dissociative identity type behaviors. Or, though less common/proven, a case of very mild psychosis. The true travesty, is that this phenomenon isn't studied in greater detail. Perhaps there is a notable difference in the brain. As of now, all we know from research and analysis, is that most cases are an example of coping mechanisms for DID, past trauma/abuse, general neglect, or the manifestation of a deeper rooted mental illness. While this isn't what most therians/otherkin would like to hear, it's what psychologists and neurologists have to say. It doesn't de-legitimatize what you feel, as it's quite likely what you're feeling is in fact a manifestation of a real disorder. It does however show that there isn't necessarily enough evidence for someone to point to the body/brain of a therian and go "ah yes, that is an example of a therian" as there is with say, someone with gender dysphoria.

I've done extensive research into this subject as I find it to be incredibly intriguing. I encourage many of you to read up on studies, brain scans, and experiments conducted for further comfort. Knowing why you feel as you do can be very good for one's mind..


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## KILL.MAIM.KILL (Apr 1, 2018)

_And here we go again! _Back to the myth of gender identity!
It's like nobody can resist talking about this crap.
You people never let me down, do you?


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## slyslays444 (Apr 1, 2018)

There are a _lot _of problems with the tumblr community in general. If you can avoid the crazies, though, the experience is pretty nice. Like, I run a pretty damn nice blog. Just existing, reblogging the things I like. Mainly because I'd rather die than really use _TUMBLR_ of all things as a social media platform, versus a collection of pretty things, lol. I mean, I've made a friend or two on there, but mostly because we bumped into each other on there, not really that I was searching for people. 

With that being said, I've come more or less to the conclusion that when a group of any kind (delusional or not,) feels ostracized or criticized by society or made to feel like they aren't legitimate, they congregate into groups that primarily focus on this obsession that people will blatantly tell them is unhealthy. Then it just takes more and more from there. 
A lot of kids on these sites who identify with fictional characters convince their friends it's cool and fun. Not all of them, but the majority of the particularly obsessive ones who will most likely have a DFI list (tf? lol what) are these kinds of kids. And my reason for this is probably that these kids fit the more "weird kid" demographic so they need control and want to fit in really badly. So how can they control their surroundings? Digitally, by demanding their followers meet specific criteria, be exactly as they want, and being able to label themselves to their hearts content without being told by their friends or followers they're wrong. Popular kids at school are sort of like this. Not so bad always, but you get the idea. Like someone on here said, it's 'cliquish'. 

But that's just my speculation, from my thinking about this stuff. 
Once, I was 12-13 and very much impressionable. I almost fell down this hole of complex tumblr terminology. Somehow, I managed to spot the amount of unhealthy mania and get the hell out of there before it got out of hand. The same can't be said of some of my friends. :/ Literally watched the gifted class valedictorian drop from having straight A's to becoming a D student. She told me the reason for this was that "she only needed to do community college in order to be able to live with her friends in a community house together"- coming from someone who really could have made it to one of the best colleges out there. Sounded really cultlike to me.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> The same goes for you. Please show me evidence for your claims. I don’t want to be otherkin, it fucking sucks. I feel like a crazy person and have phantom limbs that get in the way of my day to day life. Have you ever tried to type with claws? It’s no fun.
> 
> 
> I completely agree! As I mentioned before, I think my otherkinity is a result of some psychological issue. I don’t believe in reincarnation/past lives. I’d love to figure out what it is, really. All I’m saying is that what I feel is not made up, it’s a result of something else.
> ...


I do not call you delusional as an insult. I say it because you have this idea in your mond that isn't real which you believe it to be completely. That is by definition a delusion. Also I am not the one who needs proof of something not to be. You made the claim you are litterally an animal. "Typing with claws" I hope you know that that only solidifies my claim that you are living a lie. You are human and unless you sharpen your nails you will never have claws.


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 1, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I do not call you delusional as an insult. I say it because you have this idea in your mond that isn't real which you believe it to be completely. That is by definition a delusion. Also I am not the one who needs proof of something not to be. You made the claim you are litterally an animal. "Typing with claws" I hope you know that that only solidifies my claim that you are living a lie. You are human and unless you sharpen your nails you will never have claws.


if you're not trying to be insulting, then what are you trying to do? other than being right, what do you hope to gain from this? ​


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 1, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> if you're not trying to be insulting, then what are you trying to do? other than being right, what do you hope to gain from this? ​


Knocking some needed sense I say


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> if you're not trying to be insulting, then what are you trying to do? other than being right, what do you hope to gain from this? ​


Living a lie is not healthy. Better to realize that now than be crushed emotionally later on.



Empress Perjury said:


> Yeah, phantom claws. Not real claws. Of course I’m 100% human, I just have a psychological quirk that makes me an otherkin. I know I am human and wouldn’t claim otherwise.
> 
> You are assuming that otherkinity isn’t real. How would you know? I need some proof here.


There is no evidence pointing to it being real other than it being a delusion. You're the one making the claims. You require the evidence. If you read earlier in this thread I once believed I was otherkin too. But I was only using it to cope with my disorders. It is a delusion.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 1, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> You are assuming that otherkinity isn’t real. How would you know? I need some proof here.


You make the claim, therefore you provide the proof of your claim. This is logical fallacy


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Apr 1, 2018)

Inkblooded said:


> kin = roleplayers, only advanced


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## Sagt (Apr 1, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> There is no evidence pointing to it being real other than it being a delusion. You're the one making the claims. You require the evidence. If you read earlier in this thread I once believed I was otherkin too. But I was only using it to cope with my disorders. It is a delusion.


From what I gather, she had initially only claimed that she experiences phantom limbs. I don't know what kind of evidence you can reasonably expect of someone, beyond their own personal account, to prove that they experience something like that.

On the other hand, I'd like to point out that you were the one to claim that she is delusional, without providing any evidence of this yourself, and whilst demanding evidence from her.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 1, 2018)

Lcs said:


> From what I gather, she had initially only claimed that she experiences phantom limbs. I don't know what kind of evidence you can reasonably expect of someone, beyond their own personal account, to prove that they experience something like that.
> 
> On the other hand, I'd like to point out that you were the one to claim that she is delusional, without providing any evidence of this yourself, and whilst demanding evidence from her.


Her claiming she "have" or "experience" phantom limbs is enough to warrant her such glorious title


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Lcs said:


> From what I gather, she had initially only claimed that she experiences phantom limbs. I don't know what kind of evidence you can reasonably expect of someone, beyond their own personal account, to prove that they experience something like that.
> 
> On the other hand, I'd like to point out that you were the one to claim that she is delusional, without providing any evidence of this yourself, and whilst demanding evidence from her.


Let me ask. How do you prove that unicorns don't exist?


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 1, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Knocking some needed sense I say


what had empress done that made this "needed"? she isn't doing anything wrong, isn't harming anyone, not even rubbing it in people's faces. someone asked a question, she gave a very polite and reasonable answer. she's _got_ sense imo. whether I believe in otherkin or not- and I don't really- it doesn't matter. her experience is hers and it ain't our place to concern troll her for it.



Ovi the Dragon said:


> Living a lie is not healthy. Better to realize that now than be crushed emotionally later on.


she seems to be perfectly aware of her situation. even acknowledges that it is probably a coping mechanism. otherkin is just what she's calling her experience. doesn't mean you need to get your knickers in a twist over it. cause what did you think was going to happen here? you say "you're delusional" and she falls to the ground crying like "oh my god, you're right! the scales have fallen from my eyes and it's all so clear now! thank you kind stranger for being able to diagnose me from a single post and rid me of these horrible delusions." like, come on. it's not your place and if that was really your intent you're doing a shit job.​


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> what had empress done that made this "needed"? she isn't doing anything wrong, isn't harming anyone, not even rubbing it in people's faces. someone asked a question, she gave a very polite and reasonable answer. she's _got_ sense imo. whether I believe in otherkin or not- and I don't really- it doesn't matter. her experience is hers and it ain't our place to concern troll her for it.
> 
> 
> she seems to be perfectly aware of her situation. even acknowledges that it is probably a coping mechanism. otherkin is just what she's calling her experience. doesn't mean you need to get your knickers in a twist over it. cause what did you think was going to happen here? you say "you're delusional" and she falls to the ground crying like "oh my god, you're right! the scales have fallen from my eyes and it's all so clear now! thank you kind stranger for being able to diagnose me from a single post and rid me of these horrible delusions." like, come on. it's not your place and if that was really your intent you're doing a shit job.​


So whose place is it to tell lies from truth? Someone must do it even though it may hurt someone's feelings.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 1, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> what had empress done that made this "needed"? she isn't doing anything wrong, isn't harming anyone, not even rubbing it in people's faces. someone asked a question, she gave a very polite and reasonable answer. she's _got_ sense imo. whether I believe in otherkin or not- and I don't really- it doesn't matter. her experience is hers and it ain't our place to concern troll her for it.​


Please don't misuse the word trolling, I don't think you know what it means. We are not saying this to get reactions, we are saying this because we are genuinely bothered by how people think things like "Phantom Claw" or "Another Species in a Human body". Now we are in the wrong by not believing it? We are the bad person because we don't bend over our ass and take in insanity?
I am not the one to encourage people and their make belief by tolerating it, If I think it's stupid I will damn well say it.
Also, she is shoving it down our throats by taunting us by asking us proof. Which makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE! how can we prove something that doesnt exist?


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 1, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> So whose place is it to tell lies from truth? Someone must do it even though it may hurt someone's feelings.


look, you- a random person on the internet who literally knows nothing about this person's situation and does not have a psych degree- has no business deciding what "harsh truths" someone "needs" to hear. again, if you're really looking to make a positive change in empress's life- which i doubt- you're doing a shit job. painful or not, just saying "you're delusional" isn't exactly standard therapeutic procedure.​


Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Please don't misuse the word trolling, I don't think you know what it means. We are not saying this to get reactions, we are saying this because we are genuinely bothered by how people think things like "Phantom Claw" or "Another Species in a Human body". Now we are in the wrong by not believing it? We are the bad person because we don't bend over our ass and take in insanity?
> I am not the one to encourage people and their make belief by tolerating it, If I think it's stupid I will damn well say it.
> Also, she is shoving it down our throats by taunting us by asking us proof. Which makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE! how can we prove something that doesnt exist?


you do realize that she was literally answering a question someone posted in a calm and civilized manner when someone called her delusional, right? hardly rubbing it in people's faces, I'd say. doesn't matter two shits what you think. isn't "don't like it, don't read it" big around these parts? you get annoyed by otherkin shit, don't engage. don't have to encourage or tolerate. just move along. ​


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## Simo (Apr 1, 2018)

It's always seemed odd to me, why Tumblr seems to get so many people's undies in a tangle; I often wonder why more furries don't follow their own passions and interests, instead of bitching and moaning about those of others.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 1, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> look, you- a random person on the internet who literally knows nothing about this person's situation and does not have a psych degree- has no business deciding what "harsh truths" someone "needs" to hear. again, if you're really looking to make a positive change in empress's life- which i doubt- you're doing a shit job. painful or not, just saying "you're delusional" isn't exactly standard therapeutic procedure.


We don't know anything about the person indeed, we can only see what's on the surface thus we respond what we can see based on what we see on the surface. It is up to her to decide to take it into heart or not, if she understand that we know nothing of her then she should just brush off our comment but alas she doesn't. She's just as committed as we are to prove the us otherwise.


Le Chat Nécro said:


> you do realize that she was literally answering a question someone posted in a calm and civilized manner when someone called her delusional,


We can't call her delusional just because she presented her point in a calm and civilized manner?
Delusional is the mildest adjective to describe her, I can't think of any less offensive word to use.

Also again.. I do not tolerate therefore I don't ignore. Very simple..


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 1, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> We don't know anything about the person indeed, we can only see what's on the surface thus we respond what we can see based on what we see on the surface. It is up to her to decide to take it into heart or not, if she understand that we know nothing of her then she should just brush off our comment but alas she doesn't. She's just as committed as we are to prove the us otherwise.
> 
> We can't call her delusional just because she presented her point in a calm and civilized manner?
> Delusional is the mildest adjective to describe her, I can't think of any less offensive word to use.
> ...


it's a relatively free internet, you can say whatever you damn well please, but I'm just saying that considering she got called delusional after responding to a thread in good faith her response isn't a crazy one. she's not trying to indoctrinate you for fuck's sake. you don't have to bend over and "take the insanity in the ass", you little drama king. just don't be a dick, but I imagine that's asking too much of your easily offended sensibilities. 

you and ovi really really want to change her mind that damn much, you might consider a different tactic.​


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 1, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> response isn't a crazy one.


Hahaha really?
I'm not offended, I'm not the crazy one here. 
The perks of being sane


Le Chat Nécro said:


> you little drama king.


Wanna call me Nazi next?


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 1, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Hahaha really?
> I'm not offended, I'm not the crazy one here.
> The perks of being sane
> 
> Wanna call me Nazi next?


sure don't 
just think you got a damn colorful imagination if you think someone talking about their experiences in your general vicinity is akin to taking something up the ass.
if you are "genuinely bothered" by someone's experiences that literally do not affect you in any way and want to call it SHOVING INSANITY IN YOUR FACE (all caps being yours), yeah, I'm going to call you an over sensitive drama king. ​


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> THANK YOU. I hate it when I'm trying to answer a question and get flamed for being "delusional". Honestly I'm done with all of this, its obvious its getting nowhere. Ovi is just saying the same thing over and over and Mikazuki is being rude. You guys aren't going to change the beliefs I've had for my whole life, something that's been so integral to my identity. Its kind of hard to remain nice when I'm being called crazy and delusional for simply having a belief contradicting to your closeminded views.
> 
> 
> I am not "living a lie". What I experience is a textbook case of psychological otherkinity. That is just the term to desciribe my condition. I am not convinced I am literally nonhuman, that is a real mental disorder called lycanthropy. No serious otherkin actually thinks of themselves as entire If I was living a lie, I would've fabricated all of this and convinced myself I was otherkin.
> ...


So I wasn't actually on otherkin? That whole coping link thing reminds me of how when people leave a religion they're told "you never truly had god in your heart". I am not insulting you by calling you delusional. It is just the thing that describes what you are dealing with. Ask me, if you were talking to a man who thought there were little people running around his house, would you call them delusional? Because by your thought process he should be believed totally because it's his experience.


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## Zhalo (Apr 1, 2018)

*looks at thread*
*ONO*

Why does it matter to anyone that someone else feels like they are non-human can we just respectfully acknowledge their beliefs and move on, you don't have to even think what they say is legitimate. You just have to not feel the need to delegitmize their beliefs at every opportunity you get. As long as the person who holds the belief isn't shoveing it in everyone else's face at every opportunity they get, and people respect their beliefs, then no problems should arise.

Also, assaulting people's beliefs so directly is almost never the best way to try to change someone else's belief. MUCH more tact is required then what is going on in this thread.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 1, 2018)

Zhalo said:


> *looks at thread*
> *ONO*
> 
> Why does it matter to anyone that someone else feels like they are non-human can we just respectfully acknowledge their beliefs and move on, you don't have to even think what they say is legitimate. You just have to not feel the need to delegitmize their beliefs at every opportunity you get. As long as the person who holds the belief isn't shoveing it in everyone else's face at every opportunity they get, and people respect their beliefs, then no problems should arise.
> ...


Things need to be at least somehow based in reality. This is not.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 2, 2018)

Oh wow ovi is being... himself.

Frankly I don't care what you are. I have things about my head I'd love to get scans for a put theories to the test. 

Most of this shit isn't studied as there isn't some rich guy fronting the bill to figure this out. And frankly ignore the two trolls.

Seriously. Jumping on people solves not a damn fucking thing. I'm going into a neutral perspective here as I'm curious to learn about what other people experience.

There has been causes of people feeling this back to the 1900's. however such cases were results of crazy absurd abuse . I doubt no one here was sexually abused and stuck in a cage as a child, but this isn't an isolated event and it's not modern.

Wether this is biological chemistry, environmental or something more is yet to be seen and until more research is done we'll never know.


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## BahgDaddy (Apr 2, 2018)

I fully support people's right to freedom of belief, expression, and religion. That includes believing you're actually a wolf or dragon stuck in a human body. Considering all the things people believe... this harms people how? Whew...


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

Empress Perjury said:


> No you were not. If you were actually otherkin you’d still be having the “symptoms”. It’s not just something you can ignore and move past like religion. Believe me, I’ve tried. Others can back me up on this.
> 
> I’m not even going to waste my time explaining why that analogy makes no sense. You’re describing a hallucination, not a lifelong identity. That’s like comparing schizophrenia to Christianity. I’m done relying, I’m going to ignore you now. You should learn some respect, it might get people to like you a little more  Not everything has to fit in your little boxed-in worldview of “you’re wrong because you have beliefs that don’t align with mine and you must agree with meee”.


No I know you're wrong because science has nothing to back you up. And I actually have quite a bit of friends. I would be alright with you pretending to be something, but if you mentally believe you are something else, then that's not good because it's not real. It's a lie. Act like a dragon or dog whenever you want. If it makes you comfortable. But the instant you think you have something real that makes you think you are one, physical or not, that's a clear sign of mental illness.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 2, 2018)

You're free to believe whatever you are but if you're going to tell us otherkins is scientifically observable then how is that not shoving down my throat?


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## Zhalo (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Things need to be at least somehow based in reality. This is not.


No, they don't. I could say the same thing about religion, or any belief that is not backed by some form of scientific evidence. 

It does not matter, there is a reason why people of different faiths don't argue with each other constantly. It is because they just understand their differences in beliefs and move on. 

Personally, I think the whole thearian thing is a little bit far fetched myself, but I recognize that it is a deep meaningful thing for some people so I don't go around questioning their belief.

There is a time and place to debate this, but this is not the time, and definitely not the right way to go about it either.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Everything you say is laughable as it all applies to you.
> 
> Why the fuck are you still here?
> 
> ...


I am here because I see someone who needs help and I once believed I was an othetkin too. And might I ask what you mean when you say "everything you say applies to you"?



Zhalo said:


> No, they don't. I could say the same thing about religion, or any belief that is not backed by some form of scientific evidence.
> 
> It does not matter, there is a reason why people of different faiths don't argue with each other constantly. It is because they just understand their differences in beliefs and move on.
> 
> ...


Someone needs to call out bs when they see it and push facts over nonesense. If not then we'd not be here today. You'd still be some tribe in the middle of no where because someone couldn't stand to question the beliefs of others.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I am here because I see someone who needs help and I once believed I was an othetkin too. And might I ask what you mean when you say "everything you say applies to you"?
> 
> 
> Someone needs to call out bs when they see it and push facts over nonesense. If not then we'd not be here today. You'd still be some tribe in the middle of no where because someone couldn't stand to question the beliefs of others.


You are an individual whose grounding of reality is weak. You've also been called out numerous times on numerous mediums and shown to not handle criticism. You're very narrow minded and show heavily narcissistic tendencies.

Your view of reality is skewed and closed off to all others and *many* recognize this. 

You even claiming these people need help is showing more about you than you'd ever think. Honestly you're coming off like that Mormon going to a gay club and screeching they all need help and Jesus.

You're on a fucking furry forum preaching like you have some moral fucking high ground.

So once again Why are you here?!


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> You are an individual whose grounding of reality is weak. You've also been called out numerous times on numerous mediums and shown to not handle criticism. You're very narrow minded and show heavily narcissistic tendencies.
> 
> Your view of reality is skewed and closed off to all others and *many* recognize this.
> 
> ...


Well now you're just acting awefully rude. Just because I don't agree with what you think does not make me narrow minded. And I don't act narcisstic. Also I once heard a phrase that "If you open your mind too much your brain will fall out." Onto the point about me being closed off to all others, I'm actually friends with Yaka and Legacy. One I am almost a complete opposite of and one I had a hella heated debate with. I am more open then what you see. I actually offered to not have any hard feelings toward each other in PM and you didn't reply. And these people do need help because it. isn't. real. There is no evidence to back them up and it's living a lie. I've gone through it. And why am I here? I could ask the same question as to why you're here as well. I already said my reasons.


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## Diretooth (Apr 2, 2018)

@Ovi the Dragon Alright, so let's say that me feeling like I'm a wolf is strictly some sort of psychosis, or some delusion that I'm under. My life has been better overall since I learned, very roughly, how to control mental and phantom shifts than when I tried to ignore them. Meditation to focus my mind, then figuring out a way to trigger them or stop them from triggering in the first place, that's how I've gone from having long periods of time where I wasn't in a human mindset to being able to function properly in a public or private setting, with few flare-ups of them happening outside of my control.
I've gotten myself to a point where I can express that wolfish side of myself without harming or otherwise inconveniencing other people, or causing myself or other people undue trouble. I understand that this is completely counter to my physicality, that I am a human being in a very physical manner. Since I can function, since I can do what many other people could do on a daily basis, then what is the point of you being so dismissively condescending toward me and other people who identify with Therian/Otherkin mindsets? What do you stand to gain beyond, what, being correct? And what about the people who see it as a spiritual thing, in such that they are pagan, or animist, or believe in reincarnation? What is the point of calling such a delusion, especially if it only effects them personally?

Personally, I think you're either being contrary for the sake of being contrary, or jumping on the 'let's hate Therians and Otherkin because why not' bandwagon. Those of us who aren't trolls or roleplayers don't spend our time nagging people about it endlessly, we don't bother people with it unless it's asked about or it's actually relevant to the topic at hand, and we don't act high and mighty because we think and perceive things a little differently. And the people who do nag endlessly, who bother people about it, or who think they are high and mighty? Well, most others either shut them down if able, or try to do damage control where they are able to.


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## lupi900 (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Well now you're just acting awefully rude. Just because I don't agree with what you think does not make me narrow minded. And I don't act narcisstic. Also I once heard a phrase that "If you open your mind too much your brain will fall out." Onto the point about me being closed off to all others, I'm actually friends with Yaka and Legacy. One I am almost a complete opposite of and one I had a hella heated debate with. I am more open then what you see. I actually offered to not have any hard feelings toward each other in PM and you didn't reply. And these people do need help because it. isn't. real. There is no evidence to back them up and it's living a lie. I've gone through it. And why am I here? I could ask the same question as to why you're here as well. I already said my reasons.



Rude?, your the one calling a user a nutcase over her being otherkin & not backing the fuck off. You have no idea what your talking about and just projecting your insecurities on someone else. 

For someone who got super defensive over bullying on bagh's vent channel on his server. You acting pretty much the bully right here its pretty pathetic.

Also dark right you no room to talk when you run off crying when criticism is flung your way.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

Diretooth said:


> @Ovi the Dragon Alright, so let's say that me feeling like I'm a wolf is strictly some sort of psychosis, or some delusion that I'm under. My life has been better overall since I learned, very roughly, how to control mental and phantom shifts than when I tried to ignore them. Meditation to focus my mind, then figuring out a way to trigger them or stop them from triggering in the first place, that's how I've gone from having long periods of time where I wasn't in a human mindset to being able to function properly in a public or private setting, with few flare-ups of them happening outside of my control.
> I've gotten myself to a point where I can express that wolfish side of myself without harming or otherwise inconveniencing other people, or causing myself or other people undue trouble. I understand that this is completely counter to my physicality, that I am a human being in a very physical manner. Since I can function, since I can do what many other people could do on a daily basis, then what is the point of you being so dismissively condescending toward me and other people who identify with Therian/Otherkin mindsets? What do you stand to gain beyond, what, being correct? And what about the people who see it as a spiritual thing, in such that they are pagan, or animist, or believe in reincarnation? What is the point of calling such a delusion, especially if it only effects them personally?
> 
> Personally, I think you're either being contrary for the sake of being contrary, or jumping on the 'let's hate Therians and Otherkin because why not' bandwagon. Those of us who aren't trolls or roleplayers don't spend our time nagging people about it endlessly, we don't bother people with it unless it's asked about or it's actually relevant to the topic at hand, and we don't act high and mighty because we think and perceive things a little differently. And the people who do nag endlessly, who bother people about it, or who think they are high and mighty? Well, most others either shut them down if able, or try to do damage control where they are able to.


I have been through this and I know it is fake. It needs to be called out.



lupi900 said:


> Rude?, your the one calling a user a nutcase over her being otherkin & not backing the fuck off. You have no idea what your talking about and just projecting your insecurities on someone else.
> 
> For someone who got super defensive over bullying on bagh's vent channel on his server. You acting pretty much the bully right here its pretty pathetic.
> 
> Also dark right you no room to talk when you run off crying when criticism is flung your way.


A delusion is a delusion. I'm not attacking the guy. I just said what it is.


----------



## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 2, 2018)

Your comment speaks volumes.


----------



## lupi900 (Apr 2, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Your comment speaks volumes.



Yeah but he just keep ignoring it and use our replies on how were bullying him.


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## Diretooth (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I have been through this and I know it is fake. It needs to be called out.


Yeah, and I'm going through it _right fucking now_ and I know it's real. Pull your head out of your ass, stop acting like you're doing people a service, and realize that all you're doing at this point is stroking your own ego by acting like you're doing something helpful when you're only wasting everyone's fucking time.


----------



## Diretooth (Apr 2, 2018)

And stop projecting your insecurities on every little thing that goes against your narrow world view while you're at it. It gets old.


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## Diretooth (Apr 2, 2018)

Also, if you're going to be giving any advice, learn to give actual useful advice instead of saying 'it's only a delusion, it'll go away if you ignore it'. Because obviously that works with schizophrenia, phobias, and narcissism.


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## Sagt (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I have been through this and I know it is fake. It needs to be called out.


Rephrasing your point of view:

"You're delusional and there's nothing you can do to convince me that I'm wrong. However, I want you to change your perception of reality to fit how I like to view things, and I won't stop responding to this thread until you acknowledge that you're delusional. I'm right; you're wrong."

Not only are you bring presumptuous as hell, but you don't seem to realise just how silly this is. Seriously, otherkin related things are so inconsequential and it hurts no one. You may think you're the 'truth police' doing these people a service; you're not.


----------



## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> I'm going to say something and this is why I find his claims hilarious.
> 
> Everything he has said has been used against homosexuals.
> 
> ...


My rep is actually just fine. Just because the people that choose to respond to me in a mean way does not mean everyone hates me. And you can't compare this to homosexuality because it is actually observable in the natural world. However you will never see a dog think it is human.


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## Simo (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> However you will never see a dog think it is human.



A friend of mine had an Airdale  Terrier who thought he was Robin Williams. : )


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

Simo said:


> A friend of mine had an Airdale  Terrier who thought he was Robin Williams.


I want to see this.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 2, 2018)

Not going to talk about that woman/creature but you guys seriously think species dysphoria is real? Did we reach Tumblr level now?


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 2, 2018)

Remember when this was a thread about DFI lists instead of garbage? Guess I Should get used to this if I am to stay on this site.


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## lupi900 (Apr 2, 2018)

Le Chat Nécro said:


> Remember when this was a thread about DFI lists instead of garbage? Guess I Should get used to this if I am to stay on this site.



There are other furry sites far better than this forum. I mainly use Reddit's /r/furry and discord.


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 2, 2018)

lupi900 said:


> There are other furry sites far better than this forum. I mainly use Reddit's /r/furry and discord.


I dunno. I think the shittiness is kinda part of the charm, don't you think?


----------



## Zhalo (Apr 2, 2018)

lupi900 said:


> There are other furry sites far better than this forum. I mainly use Reddit's /r/furry and discord.


Personally I really like forums as a format and all the other furry forums I have found seem to be pretty dead or RP focused. 

Reddit works horribly as a fourm with all the upvoting and how all that works. 

Discord is good though, but It is closer to IM then a fourm.


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## lupi900 (Apr 2, 2018)

Zhalo said:


> Personally I really like forums as a format and all the other furry forums I have found seem to be pretty dead or RP focused.
> 
> Reddit works horribly as a fourm with all the upvoting and how all that works.
> 
> Discord is good though, but It is closer to IM then a fourm.



Yeah I'm not a fan of Reddit all, the community is pretty garbage. I've gotten told to fuck off when i said to someone to give experimental a chance on the gamingcirclejerk unjerk threads. Yeah i love discord, I'm only use to it because of Reddit.

Yeah i agree there no large furry forum. The only ones like Furry2furry was hostile before it shutted down and UKfurs was dead with pretty immature mods.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 2, 2018)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> My rep is actually just fine. Just because the people that choose to respond to me in a mean way does not mean everyone hates me. And you can't compare this to homosexuality because it is actually observable in the natural world. However you will never see a dog think it is human.


Actually I can compare because even though it's observable. Your precious science has no answers to WHY it happens.

Even high level psychology goes by "has following symptoms or confirmed cases" because guess what the brain is a complex thing.

You know what else science believed at one point? The world was flat and the center of the universe.

We know more about space than we do the workings of the brain.

The fact that numerous people report this is enough to raise questions. Not hosting an inquisition.

But then again why try to enlighten and ask questions when you can instantly attack!


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## Deleted member 115426 (Apr 2, 2018)

God is dead.


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## lupi900 (Apr 2, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> We know more about space than we do the workings of the brain.



Yup we have class of drugs like deliriants where we don't know there full method of action. Same with NDE's, Ghost sightings & more.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 2, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> Even high level psychology goes by "has following symptoms or confirmed cases" because guess what the brain is a complex thing.


Then you acknowledge that this is just all in the head?


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## Le Chat Nécro (Apr 2, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Then you acknowledge that this is just all in the head?




__
		https://did%3D2f5108b6f1238a4a422b1a51bf1503b0e515ec77%3Bid%3D172451264331%3Bkey%3D9dy3SNbgLm1Jcm5JjMhS2w%3Bname%3Dnudityandnerdery


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 2, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> Then you acknowledge that this is just all in the head?


So is your existence. Every thought feeling desire, sick twisted porn fetish, all come from your head.

So yes I acknowledge it is in the head. Just I acknowledge how all social interaction, bias, and anything indinctive of thought or instinct is in just in the head.

So oh do go on.


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## Ginza (Apr 2, 2018)

Why the fuck do all these threads end up as utter shit?


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 2, 2018)

Ginza said:


> Why the fuck do all these threads end up as utter shit?


Some furries just want to watch the world burn.

its gonna be sad when the OP asks Mew to close this thread e.e


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## Troj (Apr 2, 2018)

Even when you're _right, _telling somebody they're delusional or crazy is _always _more about gratifying your own ego than it is about actually correcting or educating the other person, since no one has ever changed their mind on an issue as a result of being told they're nuts or stupid.

Also, if you're genuinely worried about people courting dangerous delusions, harmful beliefs, or opinions that run counter to empirical reality, your energy  would be better spent fighting flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, religious fundamentalists, conspiracy theorists, political extremists, Russian-backed social media bots, or your uncle who only watches Fox News and InfoWars. Therians and otherkin at least aren't known for trying to blow people up or run over them with cars; they're typically people who are just trying to make sense of their own internal subjective experience, and they're already well aware that nobody likes them and everybody thinks they're cuckoo for cocoa puffs.


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## Zhalo (Apr 2, 2018)

Troj said:


> Therians and otherkin at least aren't known for trying to blow people up or run over them with cars.


B...but what if they bite me!?!


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## Massan Otter (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm no expert, but I've been told that the current practice in mental health diagnosis is only to consider something a disorder if it has a detrimental effect on day to day functioning.  On that basis, while therians have unconventional ways of thinking about some things, it wouldn't automatically be considered to be problematic.  
For myself, there are parts of the phenomenon that I recognise, but I would hesitate to fully identify myself that way.  I do sometimes visualise myself as my sona species, but I view it as more as some imaginative escapism or as a coping mechanism than an inherent thing.


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## Troj (Apr 2, 2018)

Close, Massan! Generally, the current practice is to consider something a disorder if it causes "clinically-significant distress" and/or is detrimental to day-to-day functioning.

I think my main pet peeve here is how people think they're taking some unorthodox, unprecedented, and morally-courageous stance by kicking people who are already underdogs, and my secondary pet peeve is how people applaud themselves for going after the lowest low-hanging fruit.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Apr 2, 2018)

This thread... so typical. Seriously, just ignore this guy. You all know he will never change his mind on anything. Then he goes and bitches about how he doesn't have any friends anymore...


----------



## Katook (Apr 2, 2018)

Interesting to see Empress mention the phantom limbs, the claw sensations. While I believe my therianthropic nature to be attributed to 1) emotional neglect and lack of affection received as a child; 2) Us being treated on a similar level as the pets, expected to do whatever our parents 'trained' us to do essentially, and any unwanted emotional reaction or behaviour was not looked at an addressed and an individual problem, but as overall rebellion, leading to emotional reactions to neglect from a child on the autistic spectrum unknowing what he needs, to be punished for responding so, leading to self-soothing tactics and eventually dissociation into animal shifts(or dragons, which were and are my favourite creatures). 3; We were raised with family dogs and again, were held to the same standards as the dogs essentially(if not higher, naturally). 

But the phantom limb thing-- I experienced it most strongly with(nsfw) having male genitalia when I was born with female genitalia. Now that I've been on hormones for 2 years, the genital development has reduced that phantom limb sensation which before hormones I dealt with by 'packing'. (using a fabric or silicone/cyberskin prosthetic undergarment to reduce feelings of phantom genitalia and dysphoria).  Similarly I feel a tension in the back muscles below my shoulder blades and through my shoulders and pectoral muscles that feel like they should have the weight of wings atop them. I've crafted costumes with articulated PVC wings, and naturally I don't go around wearing them places except cons or meetups, though if  I were my younger self, I might have.   The phantom feeling of claws is one I relate to as well. It's a heavy tension atop your fingernail beds that makes you need to hold your fingers a certain way. One other one is a tail. My tail bone and lower back sensations lead me to constantly craving a tail. That one is the strongest, I think, and I will wear my fursuit tails in public.  That one people really enjoy too!! I get comments and questions and admirations about my tails. I haven't worn one in awhile, though I'd like to make a new one. I want a good lemur one, but need some flexible but self-supportive lightweight rod to use as a skeleton. Or a way to 'lock' a jointed tail so it won't drag and I won't have to be carrying it around myself.  

I will 'wag' my leg from knee to toes in a swaying, swooshy content way like horses or cats do if my leg is dangling. I'll swish my foot back n forth when I'm discontent or impatient over something, and just do general things like that. It's a bit of a stimming behaviour that ties in with being autistic, and is a self-soothing self expression sort of thing. A lot of the times it's totally a subconscious habit, such as when I was laying in bed with my girlfriend and I was on my stomach and hugging her while using her as a pillow and one of my legs were up and just swaying back and forth contently(on my stomach so easy to just have leg propped up over my back bent at the knee), and I was doing it for a few minutes before I realised I was actually doing it. She's also a furry and has a few relatable coping mechanisms, so we're very non-judgemental and closely bonded with one another, making our quirks something no one seriously teases the other for.

People who take these stories and claim it makes someone delusional or living 'not in the real world', it honestly increases my own quality of life and makes me feel less dead inside and more connected with the world, so kindly fuck off


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## Troj (Apr 2, 2018)

Katook said:


> People who take these stories and claim it makes someone delusional or living 'not in the real world', *it honestly increases my own quality of life and makes me feel less dead inside and more connected with the world*, so kindly fuck off



Boom, there it is.

There's a great irony in how we typically give religious people even more leeway in this regard, when their beliefs tend to have an even greater (for good or ill) impact on the external world and the people in it.


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## BahgDaddy (Apr 2, 2018)

Troj said:


> Boom, there it is.
> 
> There's a great irony in how we typically give religious people even more leeway in this regard, when their beliefs tend to have an even greater (for good or ill) impact on the external world and the people in it.



Sure, no one bats an eye when you say you believe in an invisible deity in the sky that apparently lets everyone suffer, but say you feel like a wolf or dragon inside is WAY over the top!


----------



## Katook (Apr 2, 2018)

Troj said:


> Boom, there it is.
> 
> There's a great irony in how we typically give religious people even more leeway in this regard, when their beliefs tend to have an even greater (for good or ill) impact on the external world and the people in it.



Religion sounds more like delusions to me. Mainstream religion at least. "There's an omniscient being outside the realm of the universe who loves me and created me and after I die I'm gonna go live with him because his son his holy spirit impregnated a virgin teen with was murdered by bad men to save us all from our inherently shitty nature :v I know this because someone wrote a really meta story and because I FEEEL it in my SOUL and I SEE PROOF EVERY DAY GOD LOVES ME GOD BLEESS'

but 'I have a phantom limb sensation that makes me feel like I should be digitigrade instead of plantigrade' = delusional beast, wake up to the harsh truth


----------



## Troj (Apr 2, 2018)

Well, and there _would_ be good reason to be alarmed if someone started barking and shitting on the lawn, but therians and otherkin largely don't act that way.

With the exception of Tumblr teenyboppers who are purely fucking around for attention, therians and otherkin typically realize to varying degrees that their feelings are atypical, strange, irrational, and "crazy"-seeming, and they have no illusions about being in human bodies.

At the most basic level, people need to demonstrate some genuine interest in learning about therians and otherkin and understanding them on their own terms before strawmanning them or jumping to unfounded conclusions about what they think and how they feel.


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## Massan Otter (Apr 2, 2018)

Troj said:


> Well, and there _would_ be good reason to be alarmed if someone started barking and shitting on the lawn, but therians and otherkin largely don't act that way.



FWIW, I have a fondness for swimming in rivers and other natural settings that does tie in with why I see the otter as being emblematic.  Though wild swimming is not that unusual a behaviour, I guess.


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## Katook (Apr 2, 2018)

Massan Otter said:


> FWIW, I have a fondness for swimming in rivers and other natural settings that does tie in with why I see the otter as being emblematic.  Though wild swimming is not that unusual a behaviour, I guess.



I ride horses because it feels like flying or riding a dragon!


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## Diretooth (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm actually terrified of heights in spite of having a Dragon theriotype. However, I am able to challenge myself to literally climb to new heights to try to overcome said fear because of it. +1 to it actually being helpful in my life.


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## ChapterAquila92 (Apr 2, 2018)

Katook said:


> Religion sounds more like delusions to me. Mainstream religion at least.


I remember something that was marked down in someone's signature block a long while ago, along the lines of "The illusion of one is a mental illness; the illusion of many is a religion."

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, we're rather efficient at deluding ourselves into believing in things that aren't physically there, and in large part to how useful we find the underlying fictions to be. As it happens, to be part of any group - to belong to it - is to believe in the collective fiction it's built upon.


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## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 3, 2018)

1. I'm agnostic but I can still acknowledge the fact that the bible has influenced most of the english law and we have benefitted from it. The bible should not be taken seriously but it still merits some kind of respect.

2. between otherkins and christians, I'd give most of my vote at christians who atleast at "most part" try to be better individuals than people who believe they're in the wrong species and gets offended when people don't affirm to their belief

3. Edgy atheist's hypocresy really bleeds out when they're quick to blame a non-existent man in the sky when he couldnt save them

My point: Leave religion (most notably Christianity) out of this.


----------



## BahgDaddy (Apr 3, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> 1. I'm agnostic but I can still acknowledge the fact that the bible has influenced most of the english law and we have benefitted from it. The bible should not be taken seriously but it still merits some kind of respect.
> 
> 2. between otherkins and christians, I'd give most of my vote at christians who atleast at "most part" try to be better individuals than people who believe they're in the wrong species and gets offended when people don't affirm to their belief
> 
> ...



>> Compares Christians and otherkin.
>> Says "leave Christianity out of this."


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 3, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> >> Compares Christians and otherkin.
> >> Says "leave Christianity out of this."





BahgDaddy said:


> Sure, no one bats an eye when you say you believe in an invisible deity in the sky that apparently lets everyone suffer, but say you feel like a wolf or dragon inside is WAY over the top!


----------



## Katook (Apr 3, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> 1. I'm agnostic but I can still acknowledge the fact that the bible has influenced most of the english law and we have benefitted from it. The bible should not be taken seriously but it still merits some kind of respect.
> 
> 2. between otherkins and christians, I'd give most of my vote at christians who atleast at "most part" try to be better individuals than people who believe they're in the wrong species and gets offended when people don't affirm to their belief
> 
> ...




Lol opinions opinions opinions


----------



## Katook (Apr 3, 2018)

People are really overlooking the actual facts of the experiences' of others. No one here is saying they run around pretending to be XYZ at the sake of others' comfort. Literally we're alll saying no one IRL is like that and tumblr just has people who exaggerate for kicks and trolling and memes' sake.

Seriously, no one therian or otherkin is gonna go up and try to convert a shit ton of people to their otherkin ways unlike christianity and religion, so seriously, don't talk about pushing delusional beliefs on others' when all we're doing is discussing our experiences. We don't need assholes to come in and tell us we didn't actually experience anything even though we've talked to people who've been qualified to deal with things like this tell us it's fine and nothing to be alarmed at; brains are strange. 

So seriously, you aren't convincing anyone. You aren't "saving" anyone. You're agnostic you claim but you talk like a holier than thou ignorant piece of flesh, and coming into a thread and telling a group of people they are delusional and wrong is going to do what exactly....??

You're boring, leave people alone. No one's harming themselves despite your weird convoluted ideas about what "normal" is. :v


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 3, 2018)

Katook said:


> People are really overlooking the actual facts of the experiences' of others.


When feelings becomes facts. Oh goodness :V
*Rise of the Otherkin—When Feelings Trump Biology!*
The hypocrisy when people can poke fun at flatearthers when they actually do no harm at other people


Katook said:


> No one here is saying they run around pretending to be XYZ at the sake of others' comfort. Literally we're alll saying no one IRL is like that and tumblr just has people who exaggerate for kicks and trolling and memes' sake.


You know this was the case with transsexuals? back when people don't give a shit but becomes an issue when they start shoving pronouns down our throat? mhmm... yeeeeessss


----------



## lupi900 (Apr 3, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> When feelings becomes facts. Oh goodness :V
> *Rise of the Otherkin—When Feelings Trump Biology!*
> The hypocrisy when people can poke fun at flatearthers when they actually do no harm at other people
> 
> You know this was the case with transsexuals? back when people don't give a shit but becomes an issue when they start shoving pronouns down our throat? mhmm... yeeeeessss



Oh look more posts of you having no fucking clue and acting like a child when your weak argument's are crushed. Also dude its cute your still here when you ran off when i called you out on how recreational drugs users are morons or how feral sonas are beastailty when your shit logic meant any sona was.

What the hell are you even trying prove at this point?.


----------



## Mikazuki Marazhu (Apr 3, 2018)

lupi900 said:


> Also dude its cute your still here when you ran off when i called you out on how recreational drugs users are morons or how feral sonas are beastailty when your shit logic meant any sona was..


Oh sorry :V
I was ignoring you because I know you're not worth my time XD
I promise not to hurt your feelings next time >:3


----------



## ChapterAquila92 (Apr 3, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> lupi900 said:
> 
> 
> > Mikazuki Marazhu said:
> ...


Oh look, big bold text and ASCII emoticons, because nothing screams "Maturity!" on a forum site like acting like an insecure and socially awkward child on Tumblr.


----------



## Sagt (Apr 3, 2018)

Mikazuki Marazhu said:


> 1. I'm agnostic but I can still acknowledge the fact that the bible has influenced most of the english law and we have benefitted from it. The bible should not be taken seriously but it still merits some kind of respect.
> 
> 2. between otherkins and christians, I'd give most of my vote at christians who atleast at "most part" try to be better individuals than people who believe they're in the wrong species and gets offended when people don't affirm to their belief
> 
> ...


But then you're also making exceptions for when it should be acceptable to not berate someone over a spiritual, rather than a factual, belief. Not only that, but religion is a horrible thing to make an exception of, given how much more consequential it is to society. Religion has led to centuries of suffering and people are still being harmed by even a reformed religion like Christianity; I care much more about that than some harmless person who believes they have a connection to some non-human animal, with no further implications beyond that.


----------



## lupi900 (Apr 3, 2018)

ChapterAquila92 said:


> Oh look, big bold text and ASCII emoticons, because nothing screams "Maturity!" on a forum site like acting like an insecure and socially awkward child on Tumblr.



Same thing with his reasons for ignoring my call's out at him. You know he lost the argument when only excuses on ignoring me is that I'm either triggered or a butthurt bitch. I've not clue why he liked your post?.

Gotta love what lengths some furries like mika or ovi go to feel like the alpha male. While making us as a fandom look like worthless neckbeards that can't argue points without playing the victim.

Then again he the same moron that thought i was some US pothead when I'm scottish, a country where pot...is illegal. lol



Lcs said:


> But then you're also making exceptions for when it should be acceptable to not berate someone over a spiritual, rather than a factual, belief. Not only that, but religion is a horrible thing to make an exception of, given how much more consequential it is to society. Religion has led to centuries of suffering and people are still being harmed by even a reformed religion like Christianity; I care much more about that than some harmless person who believes they have a connection to some non-human animal, with no further implications beyond that.



Yeah the same people who spent ages on going on how homosexual are only worth death & that how the disabled are freak's that should be openly mocked. But no a small harmless community is far more deadly.


----------



## Troj (Apr 3, 2018)

Body dysphoria is fascinating because it has so much to teach us. What does it mean, truly to "feel" human? What does it mean to "feel" male or female? Most people take their experience for granted, so the people who can't or don't have much to teach us about everything that goes into making us, us.


----------



## Katook (Apr 3, 2018)

Troj said:


> Body dysphoria is fascinating because it has so much to teach us. What does it mean, truly to "feel" human? What does it mean to "feel" male or female? Most people take their experience for granted, so the people who can't or don't have much to teach us about everything that goes into making us, us.



If you look up Brain-body mapping and look into the brain's homunculus, then that's the source of where our brain has a sense of what pur body is supposed to be. With dysphoria, your brain tells you you should have for instance a tail, going with Therians here vs medical abnormalities like being trans or the syndrome where you feel like you have too many limbs, but then when you see and realise you don't have one, feelings of dysphoria ensue which is a hopeless defeated "this isn't right" feeling that is really quite unsettling.

The brain is a crazy thing.


----------



## Troj (Apr 3, 2018)

People with body dysphoria have often been found to have abnormalities or injuries in the motor strip of the brain, where the homunculus is located.

Another possible piece of the puzzle:
www.theatlantic.com: The Link Between Autism and Trans Identity 

I have a friend who has always felt alienated from her left leg. When she's calmly expressed this to loved ones, physicians, and others, they've consistently lost their shit.  I actually find the extreme reactions to people like my friend to be much more curious and bizarre than the dysphoria itself.


----------



## Katook (Apr 3, 2018)

Troj said:


> People with body dysphoria have often been found to have abnormalities or injuries in the motor strip of the brain, where the homunculus is located.
> 
> Another possible piece of the puzzle:
> www.theatlantic.com: The Link Between Autism and Trans Identity
> ...



I have also read before about the more frequent occurrence of all types of LGBT identities being more common amongst neurodivergent communities vs the neurotypical commonfolk. And being both autistic and transgender-- I mean there ya go that isn't saying every transgender person is autistic and every autistic person is LGBT, because allistic transpeople exist and cishet autists exists, but it does help support that theory.

Also I agree it's both ridiculous and shocking how people freak out over the fact others have different physical sensations than they can understand. Really most people are just too weak minded to be able to have empathy for those not exactly like them. 

These people I pity for their lack of diversity amongst friends because typically they're so intolerable that no one different than them WANTS to waste their time around them.

And unfortunately enjoying anthromorphic animals, a community therians naturally thrive in certain sects, doesn't exclude the ignorant assholes who can't deal with anyone not exactly like them. Poor sods "need saved". That's the funniest thing coming from someone who claimed to be agnostic lol. Agnostic but thinks people who are atheists are "not saved"? Saved from what? We're all gonna die. I'm a pagan and my thoughts of the afterlife really I admit I have no idea what's gonna happen but I mean, it's gonna happen. But energy can't be destroyed and only converted to other forms, so I believe in reincarnation in a loose sense of our energy goes into the fueling of the souls of others, either humans, flora, or other fauna. 
Hence therian feelings from energy recycled by past living creatures.
I'm not claiming I have any truths, but it makes more sense from a non delusional standpoint than going to heaven or hell.

Overall empathy is the most important thing to have in these types of discussions, and without it you have people who feel insecure and scared and angry because they can't understand what isn't them, so they lash out and claim we're sick or deluded and need saved from our apparently dangerous thoughts but idk.
I have a loving girlfriend whom I'm going to marry, pets who adore me, a job and coworkers who support me, and I come from a family of abuse and manipulation and a childhood of anxiety, depression, emotional neglect, severe dysphoria, and I was homeschool and raised Christian. I coped by pretending I was an animal because my imagination was the best escape.
My siblings did the same. We've all grown up vastly different, but 2/3 of us are queer and have our own outlets of therian like feelings, my older sister with Elves and Fae and myself with dragons and new world primates. Sometimes dogs.

It's very complex and I bet common but the stigma leads people to not discuss it for fear of the same responses we're seeing here by a select few. Similarly how people claim everyone is gay or trans now but honestly LGBT people have always existed but hid, rejected, or denied themselves for the sake of what was accepted. Today's world is a safer society for kids to explore and adults to finally live true to themselves.

Trying to squelch that to go back to the relic of the past is dangerous to progress, but evolution is always happening, and those who don't adapt will die out.


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## The Shiny Espeon (Apr 4, 2018)

BahgDaddy said:


> I fully support people's right to freedom of belief, expression, and religion. That includes believing you're actually a wolf or dragon stuck in a human body. Considering all the things people believe... this harms people how? Whew...




After reading this whole debate, I'm gonna have to say same.


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## lupi900 (Apr 4, 2018)

The Shiny Espeon said:


> After reading this whole debate, I'm gonna have to say same.



More confused that the 2 who started this are furries. Where they not here when every site got there ignorant info from 4chan, SA and ED?, That were nothing deluded neckbeards because our hobby is weird and slightly child like as if being weird is bad.


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## Lawkbutt (Apr 4, 2018)

If they don't want me to follow them, then I won't. That just sucks for them, I guess.


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## backpawscratcher (Apr 4, 2018)

Not 100% sure where my relationship with BackPaw falls in this debate.  He’s not a character, he’s part of my inner self.  He’s been there for decades, and whilst I always recognise a certain moment during my growing up as the point he became gorilla shaped it’s quite possible he was around before that in a fuzzier less defined way.  I definitely feel connected with gorillas even if it is a one-way connection too.  Who knows?  Perhaps I do have a gorilla “soul”.  I don’t know.  The main thing is it doesn’t harm anyone, least of all me.  If any “true” therian becomes complete by accepting or believing the animal part of themselves defines their personality then it’s a great thing IMO. Something therapeutic, calming, positive.

And if anyone doubts that that’s up to them.  Don’t piss on anyone’s chips though please.  We’re all finding our way through life.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 4, 2018)

I find the mind to be a fascinating thing. There's things about me that I would love to have put to the test. Because there's mentally odd things that I can't explain and have tried my damnest to throw into the delusional bucket, but end up finding evidence to support the claims.

I do think there's only so much "science" can tell us. And those who put 1000% stock into it alone will be shocked to find out things viewed as fact now are Hersey later. A good one for a lol is Female Hysteria. 

(Ps. I'm not opposed to science. I'm just against it being the 'end all know all' in any debate. )

There's so much we don't know or fully understand.


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## Katook (Apr 4, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> I find the mind to be a fascinating thing. There's things about me that I would love to have put to the test. Because there's mentally odd things that I can't explain and have tried my damnest to throw into the delusional bucket, but end up finding evidence to support the claims.
> 
> I do think there's only so much "science" can tell us. And those who put 1000% stock into it alone will be shocked to find out things viewed as fact now are Hersey later. A good one for a lol is Female Hysteria.
> 
> ...




All we have is the best guess we got until different things are discovered and new evidences and reasons for previously unexplained or poorly generalised things become clarified. 
Such as female hysteria as you stated lol. I was afflicted with such(Premenstursl dysphoric disorder) until I got on HRT and stopped menstruating haha. Science does explain everything, it's just science is always evolving. Questioning the known and reassessing old findings to clarify them in light of new ones is essentially the way people evolve and grow.


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## DarkoKavinsky (Apr 4, 2018)

Katook said:


> All we have is the best guess we got until different things are discovered and new evidences and reasons for previously unexplained or poorly generalised things become clarified.
> Such as female hysteria as you stated lol. I was afflicted with such(Premenstursl dysphoric disorder) until I got on HRT and stopped menstruating haha. Science does explain everything, it's just science is always evolving. Questioning the known and reassessing old findings to clarify them in light of new ones is essentially the way people evolve and grow.


There's a difference between scientific inquiry.
"Really? Can you explain what you feel and how you feel it."

Versus what Ovi was doing .

"Show me Steven fucking hawkings having a five page thesis on how this exists and isn't a delusion."

I'm paraphrasing what he said but my point stands.

Being closed minded and scientifically biased doesn't work.  You can show scrutiny but that's arguably healthy as through being skeptical you can actually see more.

Science is theory and even scientific laws are being rewritten. Look at gravity they're now figuring out higher level things with it and black holes and how they correlate.

That's amazing. And how they found it was by sheer accident and somebody being lazy and going home early (look this up its true.)

But according to Ovi's logic a black hole wouldn't  exist as normal conventional methods do not make it visible.

"It's in space but I can't see it therefore you're delusional!"

Doesn't work. Certain things are scannable but many things are uncertain. I've studied human psychology in my free time and have had numerous debates on it.

I think there's more to this therian otherkin thing than just 

"It's a coping mechanism"

And I know it's not a delusion. 

This stuff is fascinating to me as I want to try to understand what makes us tick.


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## Katook (Apr 4, 2018)

I like what you said and agree with it fully, I am not as good at communicating as I'd like to be xP 
You and I are on the same page mas o menos


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## Diretooth (Apr 4, 2018)

As far as being a Therianthrope goes, while I do see more spiritual aspects for it for myself personally- and many others have varying degrees of how they percieve it, ranging from straight up reincarnation to it simply being something mental entirely- I always take time to try to examine it from a more skeptical mindset, trying to understand how it is I'm able to feel the things I feel, how the things that I've grown up doing that are weird are completely normal to me, not even being learned behavior as far as I know. I would absolutely _love_ it if someone were to examine it with an open, yet skeptical mind in a legitimate scientific manner.
However, I know that people are going to spend more time sensationalizing it and making it out to be much weirder than it actually is. The 'on all levels except physical' meme that spawned from the one 'documentary'? The person from whom it spawned, Shiro Ulv, only consented because they were paying him and because he was given permission to dictate how they could portray him. They fulfilled the former, but didn't do much to fulfill the latter, which goes to show you how manipulative the media can be. Just think, _it could have been much worse than it already was._
Hell, the site that Shiro runs, 'Kinmunity', has a rule directly stating that people cannot solicit anything media related without having administrator permission, most people who visit wanting to do documentaries or portray Therians/Otherkin in any fashion usually ignore this, and for their trouble are denied and the accounts made for this purpose are banned. Hell, I was a moderator for the site back when it was called Wulf Howl, and the amount of times people made accounts to roleplay, harrass, solicit anything, or even just act like an asshole is much higher than the amount of people who shitpost on FAF. People like Ovi would not last for very long because there is low tolerance for outright assholery. Hell, I was the only one who gave people more chances they deserved, sometimes they earned the right to not be banned, sometimes it came to the point where they were banned. I'm not a moderator anymore, mostly because I'm inactive as fuck due to being too depressed to do that anymore.
In any case, most Therian sites tend to be the most open, polite places to discuss anything, most topics regarding spiritual or political subjects tends to remain relatively calm, and Tumblrkin and roleplayers are often quickly called out on since nobody has time for murry purry roleplaying when more serious discussions could be taking place.


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## The Shiny Espeon (Jun 12, 2018)

DarkoKavinsky said:


> I find the mind to be a fascinating thing. There's things about me that I would love to have put to the test. Because there's mentally odd things that I can't explain and have tried my damnest to throw into the delusional bucket, but end up finding evidence to support the claims.
> 
> I do think there's only so much "science" can tell us. And those who put 1000% stock into it alone will be shocked to find out things viewed as fact now are Hersey later. A good one for a lol is Female Hysteria.
> 
> ...




You just won one free internet. I don't disregard science either but why are people like YEAHHH SCIENCE IT CAN EXPLAIN EVERYTHING!!!! It's why I don't have a religion nor am I atheist. I can't say gods and such do or don't exist because I don't know everything and neither does anyone else


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## ChapterAquila92 (Jun 12, 2018)

The Shiny Espeon said:


> You just won one free internet. I don't disregard science either but why are people like YEAHHH SCIENCE IT CAN EXPLAIN EVERYTHING!!!! It's why I don't have a religion nor am I atheist. I can't say gods and such do or don't exist because I don't know everything and neither does anyone else


The layman's understanding of science, religion, economics, politics, and just about everything else under the sun isn't all that it's cracked up to be, further exacerbated by far too many examples of Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.


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