# Must everyone be so sexual?



## Kitsu (Feb 6, 2013)

I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/


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## DarthLeopard (Feb 6, 2013)

The answer is yes.


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## Percy (Feb 6, 2013)

Did you give the "foxes are sluts" thread a read?

But in all seriousness, welcome to FAF, you won't find many of those "whore dogs" here.

...except for Mentova, 'cuz he's a slut fox. :V


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## Kitsu (Feb 6, 2013)

its still I see. Most comments go straight to being about sex or being gay.    Can there be such a thing as a semi-normal furry actually just wanting to meet ppl and not sleep with them?


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## PsychicOtter (Feb 6, 2013)

FAF is one of the lesser sex-oriented furry sites, but you'll see a lot of it everywhere in the fandom.


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## Littlerock (Feb 6, 2013)

DarthLeopard said:


> The answer is yes.



:T Yeah, no.

I've been here for years now and have never even considered the yiffing scene. It's not all like that. I'm here for the art, friends, drama, and money. None of the sex.


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

Sex is a pretty big part of the furry fandom, (the general greeting is a hug)

However, to me, sex isn't a huge part of the whole thing, and I use "yiffing" as a joke mainly.
Mainly.
Percy is the exception :V


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## DarthLeopard (Feb 6, 2013)

Since I forgot to add it the first time-

:v


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## Cairn (Feb 6, 2013)

PsychicOtter said:


> FAF is one of the lesser sex-oriented furry sites, but you'll see a lot of it everywhere in the fandom.


 Definitely. Most of what you see here on FAF is just sarcasm or jokes about it.


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## Kitsu (Feb 6, 2013)

Well at least theres you guys, it just seems everything I read its all about the yiffing. My instagram has been covered in preteens and stupid habbits about Furries. And its just driving me nuts.  Still kinda new to all this here on FAF but always looking for more of a cleaner output. I love the art and the friends to make.


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## Toshabi (Feb 6, 2013)

We're not all super sexual. I only masturbate 23 times a day.


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## Vaelarsa (Feb 6, 2013)

I have a problem with the sex obsession that society, itself, seems to demonstrate to the point of nausea.


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## Kitsu (Feb 6, 2013)

I totally agree @Vaelarsa.  Im just so tired of the crap it really dwells on enjoying the true furry fandom.


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> We're not all super sexual. I only masturbate 23 times a day.



Wow.
I couldn't handle that few.


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## Strawberry (Feb 6, 2013)

you're asking a question about 14-18 year-old kids being sexual, that's like asking why a cat is a cat.


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## Toshabi (Feb 6, 2013)

Riho said:


> Wow.
> I couldn't handle that few.




And yet, you pretend to be a Hyena. 


Might as well change your fursona to a rock.


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## Kitsu (Feb 6, 2013)

Maybe Im just tried of the 14-18 years..LOL


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## Outcast (Feb 6, 2013)

Yeah, FAF isn't like that... usually; I ain't pointing any fingers though.

The people across the street are *much* more sensual than the furfags here (Other furry sites and whatnot). 

Also, why is it so bad that everything furry tends to be "sexual"? Not that I don't agree with you on the subject, but that's one of the main ingredients that sparks erotic life into the furry fandom, for better or for worse (Definitely for worse :V).


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> And yet, you pretend to be a Hyena.
> 
> 
> Might as well change your fursona to a rock.



*A rock is an inanimate object*
*as Riho is a rock, he says nothing*


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## dinosaurdammit (Feb 6, 2013)

I like dicks.


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## Littlerock (Feb 6, 2013)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I like dicks.



You like cacti too so WHAT NOW!

...
Prickly vaginas, I guess.


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I like dicks.



Poetry.
I'm crying at the pure beauty of those words.
Walt Whitman has just applauded in his grave.
You sir, are an artist.


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## Toshabi (Feb 6, 2013)

Riho said:


> *A rock is an inanimate object*
> *as Riho is a rock, he says nothing*




You didn't even update your species. God, you suck at role playing.


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> You didn't even update your species. God, you suck at role playing.



Yeah, but then I would have to change it back.
Too much work for the sake of a bad joke.


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## Mentova (Feb 6, 2013)

There are plenty of furries who are not creepy perverts. That being said, there are also a lot of furries who _are_ creepy perverts. Just gotta find the right group for you. Also note a lot of the sexual stuff on this forum is sarcastic tongue in cheek stuff.


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## Littlerock (Feb 6, 2013)

Mentova said:


> sarcastic, cock in cheek stuff.



what


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## Toshabi (Feb 6, 2013)

Mentova said:


> There are plenty of furries who are not creepy perverts. That being said, there are also a lot of furries who _are_ creepy perverts. Just gotta find the right group for you. Also note a lot of the sexual stuff on this forum is sarcastic tongue in cheek stuff.




Tongue in cheek....


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how you greeted me when I first joined the forums, you slut!


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

Mentova said:


> There are plenty of furries who are not creepy perverts. That being said, there are also a lot of furries who _are_ creepy perverts. Just gotta find the right group for you. Also note a lot of the sexual stuff on this forum is sarcastic tongue in cheek stuff.



Don't listen to him.
This is the guy who got drunk after the Superbowl and offered everybody a blowjob each.


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## Mentova (Feb 6, 2013)

I should've said something else. I didn't even think of it that way you perverts. >:C


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## Littlerock (Feb 6, 2013)

Mentova said:


> I should've said something else. I didn't even think of it that way you perverts. >:C



Now lissun' here Heckler n' Kock, you made that bed. No point in sleeping on the couch for this one :v

Also, sup brah :> It's been a while, ja?


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## Strawberry (Feb 6, 2013)

HI MENTOVA


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## confuseacat (Feb 6, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



 There are lots of people who aren't into furry as a fetish. I'm not, I just like drawing fantasy anthro characters. Being a furry just means you're part of the furry fandom and every fandom has the naughty sex aspect. (Even My Little Pony. Especially My Little Pony. Don't ask me how I know that, I don't even watch the show.) But anyway, so what if they like things that you personally find weird/odd/disturbing? It's their business. It's not hurting anyone. You don't have to go and roleplay whoring yourself out in a whore dog brothel with them. Just do your own thing and eventually you'll find people who are into similar stuff as you.


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## Toshabi (Feb 6, 2013)

Mentova said:


> You perceptive sons of bitches >:C




Pretty much this.


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## TeenageAngst (Feb 6, 2013)

Anyone who didn't originally come here for the porn is either lying or one of *those* furries.


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## Riho (Feb 6, 2013)

TeenageAngst said:


> Anyone who didn't originally come here for the porn is either lying or one of *those* furries.



"Those" furries?
What, the ones who call themselves "anthros" and try to say that "furry" is a sick fandom?


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## TeenageAngst (Feb 6, 2013)

The ones who take it waaay too seriously and talk ad-nauseum about how they relate to their fursona.


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## Butters Shikkon (Feb 7, 2013)

I think this applies to more than just the furry fandom though. Hell, I once knew a girl who wrote WWE slash fic. People are always determined to see their own fantasies play out.


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## Joey (Feb 7, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> You like cacti too so WHAT NOW!
> 
> ...
> Prickly vaginas, I guess.



_Don't Hug Cacti!_


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## Riho (Feb 7, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> WWE slash fic.



And then, as Sweaty Wresting Guy #1 wrestled Sweaty Wrestling Guy #2 to the ground, he got an uncontrollable urge.
This urge was shown to the entire audience as a bulge in his pants.
Sweaty Wrestling Guy #2 saw this bulge, and giggled, sliding Sweaty Wresting Guy #1's tight fitting pants to the ground, and started-

God, I have to stop.


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## Butters Shikkon (Feb 7, 2013)

Riho said:


> And then, as Sweaty Wresting Guy #1 wrestled Sweaty Wrestling Guy #2 to the ground, he got an uncontrollable urge.
> This urge was shown to the entire audience as a bulge in his pants.
> Sweaty Wrestling Guy #2 saw this bulge, and giggled, sliding Sweaty Wresting Guy #1's tight fitting pants to the ground, and started-
> 
> God, I have to stop.



:C That's what it was!!!!


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## DarrylWolf (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm living a second life through my fursona.


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## Mentova (Feb 7, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> Now lissun' here Heckler n' Kock, you made that bed. No point in sleeping on the couch for this one :v
> 
> Also, sup brah :> It's been a while, ja?


I ALWAYS HAVE TO SLEEP ON THE COUCH ;_;

and hi, yes it has!


Strawberry said:


> HI MENTOVA


Hi person!


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## Catilda Lily (Feb 7, 2013)

So what does it mean to truly be a furry?


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## RayO_ElGatubelo (Feb 7, 2013)

Y'all can have your modesty! I'm a perv and lovin' it!


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## Holtzmann (Feb 7, 2013)

I have a feeling the OP hasn't been on the Internet very long, or at least haven't been paying much attention. Pretty much any non-moderated community/subculture quickly turns sexual after enough people join in, specially if it predominantly attracts young people.

Remember, kids! The Internet is for porn!


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## Batty Krueger (Feb 7, 2013)

Did someone say yiff?


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## Aetius (Feb 7, 2013)

2 pages already?

It is always the sex threads that get too much attention.

: (


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## Holtzmann (Feb 7, 2013)

Aetius said:


> 2 pages already?
> 
> It is always the sex threads that get too much attention.
> 
> : (


It's a law of nature, really. Sex threads are like hypergiant stars. They start big, live frighteningly short lives and usually go out with a spectacular bang.


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## Tignatious (Feb 7, 2013)

Mentova said:


> There are plenty of furries who are not creepy perverts. That being said, there are also a lot of furries who _are_ creepy perverts. Just gotta find the right group for you. Also note a lot of the sexual stuff on this forum is sarcastic tongue in cheek stuff.



Oh _murr~_ baby. I love it when you talk all logical.


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## M. LeRenard (Feb 7, 2013)

Because most furries are Americans, and for the American teenager they see two diametrically opposing ideas clashing it out in American culture over sex.  One is the old Puritanical view that sex is something to be disgusted by, a necessary evil to maintain the community but always to be kept hidden and avoided whenever possible, and the other is that sex is the greatest thing in the world, very funny, and should be done often by males (but not females... if you have a lot of sex as a woman, apparently you're a whore).  So there's this big confusion, coupled with hormones, that leads to lots and lots of discussion about sex and how it relates to every aspect of life on planet Earth.  So you find discussions of sex everywhere on the internet with a sizable teenage population.
I suppose this is also true of British teenagers, but I wouldn't really know.  I feel like Europeans in general aren't as weird about sex as Americans are.


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## Schwimmwagen (Feb 7, 2013)

M. LeRenard said:


> I suppose this is also true of British teenagers, but I wouldn't really know.  I feel like Europeans in general aren't as weird about sex as Americans are.



Brits and Mericans are actually quite alike in this respect, but eurofags have a reputation for being awfully kinky.


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## benignBiotic (Feb 7, 2013)

OP, FAF is one of the least sexual furry sites you'll find. There are cynics and jokers here but it's safe to say all of us wouldn't be here if we weren't furries. 
I don't have a problem with the sexual stuff unless it's REALLY gross. If I'm not looking for porn I just ignore it.

Also you're talking about 14-18 year olds. Even I was a horndog in that age range. You might just have to get over it.


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## Smelge (Feb 7, 2013)

Furry is so sexual because hardly anyone has sex, as everyone is a slobbering unhygienic hambeast or landwhale that can't even see their own genitals without a mirror. So they like to pretend that they're slim, promiscuous and sexy wolves to make up for their complete social awkwardness in real life.


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## Batty Krueger (Feb 7, 2013)

Smelge said:


> Furry is so sexual because hardly anyone has sex, as everyone is a slobbering unhygienic hambeast or landwhale that can't even see their own genitals without a mirror. So they like to pretend that they're slim, promiscuous and sexy wolves to make up for their complete social awkwardness in real life.


Preeeeettttyyyy much...

Specially in the states.

Cuz Merica, that's why.


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## Calemeyr (Feb 7, 2013)

And then they do it because, as many furries are fat smelly nerds, women don't want them. So then you have something called nerdgay.

The solution? Go outside! No Internet! And no furry paraphernalia! Socialize! Sheesh, Americans spend too much time on the computer, and our pasty complexions and big bellies show it. And this is one of the reasons so many nerd fandoms are sexual. These guys have never been with a woman, and are really creepy because of it.

Now, of course, this may all be stereotyping, but you never know...


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## Toshabi (Feb 7, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Preeeeettttyyyy much...
> 
> Specially in the states.
> 
> Cuz Merica, that's why.




You've clearly never interacted with EU furries.


Fucking britfags. >:[


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## Machine (Feb 7, 2013)

You know what it really means to be TRULY FURRY?

It means being a basement dweller whose whole life revolves around an internet culture trying to pass off as an actual culture.

So, accept it for what it is: a fetish circlejerk of aspies and neckbeards.


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## Batty Krueger (Feb 7, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> You've clearly never interacted with EU furries.
> 
> 
> Fucking britfags. >:[


I've only met a handful at cons, only one of them was kinda fat and there with his girlfriend.


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## Holtzmann (Feb 7, 2013)

d.batty said:


> I've only met a handful at cons, only one of them was kinda fat and there with his girlfriend.


Fat people can have girlfriends?

Surely, you jest.


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## Fallowfox (Feb 7, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



Hey, I'm an 18 year old furfag whore-dog etc and I don't think there's any official 'true furry meaning'. You think it's about the futility of becoming a real furry and how this provides motivation for behavioural changes, others do not. 

There are plenty of furries who aren't overly interested in sex though, this forum is full of such people, so hopefully you'll befriend some of them.


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## Toshabi (Feb 7, 2013)

Holtzmann said:


> Fat people can have girlfriends?
> 
> Surely, you jest.



They usually eat them, which is a surprise that she was still around when batty met them.


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## Machine (Feb 7, 2013)

On the inside, I'm a pile of organs, muscles, blood, and bones. <3


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## Fallowfox (Feb 7, 2013)

Machine said:


> On the inside, I'm a pile of organs, muscles, arteries, blood vessels, and bones. <3



We have so much in common!


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## Machine (Feb 7, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> We have so much in common!


OMG LET'S START A SUBCULTURE! *GIRL SQUEE*


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## Fox_720B (Feb 7, 2013)

Well, I think this whole thing has different angles to it....the fandom isn't all about sex and if you want to just enjoy the fandom without everything being "about" sex there are certainly lots and lots of people that will fit that need for you. 

but there is a lot of sexual joking that happens here, but that happens in real life as well...it's fun and entertaining to engage in the odd innuendo here and there, and at the end of the day, humans themselves are sexual creatures too, so we can and do make rule34 about everything, we can and do act like blathering idiots wanting to get laid from time to time, and we can and do make complete asses out of ourselves when we're young or when we're drunk and so forth. Being a furry is still being a human but having a common interest in anthros, so we're still going to have those human vices that we infuse into our little subculture here, too.

Basically, my best advice is to recognize that furfaggotry is actually just people being all kinds of people. So as you would in the real world, associate yourself with people, with "furs", you feel more comfortable around and steer clear of the ones you don't. Furries come from all backgrounds and all professions and all preferences...you'll find a sample of nearly every subgroup of people themselves in this fandom, and that does, unfortunately, include perverts and nutcases as well. It's just how it is. 

As for myself, I'm a sexual but not promiscuous person. I can enjoy the act with someone I care greatly for and I'm a monogamous person, but I joke about sex all the time amongst friends as that's a part of my own personality and style of humor. If someone else doesn't like that, I adjust how I joke around them accordingly, out of politeness and respect. If they judge me for it, well, they're free to either ask me why I find it funny and I'll explain, or they're free to associate with other people.


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## Smelge (Feb 7, 2013)

Machine said:


> On the inside, I'm a pile of organs, muscles, blood, and bones. <3



And a ton of cholesterol.


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## Fallowfox (Feb 7, 2013)

Machine said:


> OMG LET'S START A SUBCULTURE! *GIRL SQUEE*



Fleshy fandom! 

Oh wait, that sounds awful.


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## Strawberry (Feb 7, 2013)

it's the exact same thing no matter where you are

like i said, they're kids just now exploring their sexuality and everything

big deal


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## Llamapotamus (Feb 7, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Fleshy fandom!
> 
> Oh wait, that sounds awful.



You're off to a good start with that avatar of yours...


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## Heliophobic (Feb 7, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.



Us true Scotsmen, amirite?



Fallowfox said:


> Fleshy fandom!
> 
> Oh wait, that sounds awful.



WE HAVE AN ETERNITY TO KNOW YOUR FLESH


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## Holtzmann (Feb 7, 2013)

Saliva said:


> WE HAVE AN ETERNITY TO KNOW YOUR FLESH


Is it too early to start making omnomnom noises?


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## Tyrbis (Feb 7, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> Tongue in cheek....
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how you greeted me when I first joined the forums, you slut!



Greeting people with "tongue in the cheek stuff"? Phew. Amateurs. Try to say "HI" on polish furry forum. You will get lucky if you only get raped.


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## thebronychip (Feb 7, 2013)

yes


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## mitchau (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm here for the porn only, I don't care about fursonas and fashion accessories. 

Wait, that's not true, I don't mind the fashion accessories, they can be fun in bed.


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## Tiives (Feb 7, 2013)

The world is obsessed with sex.
(Many) furries are even more obsessed with sex than your Average Joe, because many furries seem to think that the furry fandom is all about sex.
Add a ton of hormones (we're talking about teenagers here) to that mix and you've got a sexual machine who will try to 'yiff' everything that moves. I'd say that if you try to talk with older furries, you're less likely to have that kind of problem. Just a guess, though.


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## Schwimmwagen (Feb 7, 2013)

Reading the sexual threads in the den makes me sometimes wish I had no sex drive whatsoever so I can keep my mind off of such things and be easily satisfied.


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## Flippy (Feb 7, 2013)

Apparently a lot of people are thinking about sex. To reference the only thing I can remember from the Twilight movie other than how annoying the main character is was the vampire guy reading peoples minds. "Money, sex, money, sex, sex, cat, money & sex" or something like that. So throw some money at the sexy catgirl strippers everyone. Haha.


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## craftyandy (Feb 7, 2013)

sex is fun, we are built for it, you think it's bad with the young ones lol wait till you get older. Furry is whatever you want it to be and when you grow up in a environment like high school where the dominate ones are straight and "normal" can you blame things getting a little kinky when those awkward people like us get together and have sex in a safe and open environment?


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## Kitsu (Feb 8, 2013)

confuseacat said:


> There are lots of people who aren't into furry as a fetish. I'm not, I just like drawing fantasy anthro characters. Being a furry just means you're part of the furry fandom and every fandom has the naughty sex aspect. (Even My Little Pony. Especially My Little Pony. Don't ask me how I know that, I don't even watch the show.) But anyway, so what if they like things that you personally find weird/odd/disturbing? It's their business. It's not hurting anyone. You don't have to go and roleplay whoring yourself out in a whore dog brothel with them. Just do your own thing and eventually you'll find people who are into similar stuff as you.



Its not that i find it wrong or disturbing..lol just dont fully like the 14-18 yrs posting a Shit ton of yiffing stff. Lol just more venting then anything. Just seems every where i turned looking to find new friends n artwork i find annoying teens posting stupid shit. Lol  but thank u for the word of advice. I hope to make new ppl n hope to post sum of my artwork â™¥â™¡â™¥â™¡


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## RailRide (Feb 8, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> ... annoying teens posting stupid shit....



*Welcome To The InternetÂ®*

---PCJ


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## lenoirvrai (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm not sexual. I even have a hard time drawing romantic/getting-to-second-base pictures for friends. I'm asexual. No nookie for me. 

Semi-normal... hmm. I'm 30. Getting my degree as a vet tech. I do foster/animal rescue. I want to specialize in feline behavior and medicine. I spend most of my time researching anything, drawing, writing, or reading. I don't "yiff" or "scritch." I don't even use furry lingo... I can't stand it. I enjoy fursuiting at conventions, but I won't wear any furry stuff out in public otherwise. 

I'm about as normal as they come, though I'm a complete psycho in other ways!


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## Heliophobic (Feb 8, 2013)

Smelge said:


> Furry is so sexual because hardly anyone has sex, as everyone is a slobbering unhygienic hambeast or landwhale that can't even see their own genitals without a mirror. So they like to pretend that they're slim, promiscuous and sexy wolves to make up for their complete social awkwardness in real life.



That projection.


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## Kazooie (Feb 8, 2013)

Regular exercise usually reduces my levels of sexualness, though recently my personality's turned all gross and all obsessed with dicks. Hopefully that'll change once I'm able to get back into my exercise regime.

I dunno about the statement that furries get no action, though. It seems really, really, really easy to get it on with the gays, and furry cons are apparently full of std-bestowing orgies.


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## Littlerock (Feb 8, 2013)

Man, furcons need an asexual gathering group, or room or something, and I _don't_ mean an underage only group. Maybe just some folks who feel similarly about the obnoxious representation of raging hormones in the fandom, and how they'd rather avoid that scene. Being surrounded by hornballs gets really old really fast when you're not interested in it. :T

Not that I've ever been to a con, but I get the impression that this is probably how I'd feel at one.


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## Schwimmwagen (Feb 8, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> Man, furcons need an asexual gathering group, or room or something, and I _don't_ mean an underage only group. Maybe just some folks who feel similarly about the obnoxious representation of raging hormones in the fandom, and how they'd rather avoid that scene. Being surrounded by hornballs gets really old really fast when you're not interested in it. :T
> 
> Not that I've ever been to a con, but I get the impression that this is probably how I'd feel at one.



Organise an asexual orgy!


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## Dokid (Feb 8, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> Man, furcons need an asexual gathering group, or room or something, and I _don't_ mean an underage only group. Maybe just some folks who feel similarly about the obnoxious representation of raging hormones in the fandom, and how they'd rather avoid that scene. Being surrounded by hornballs gets really old really fast when you're not interested in it. :T
> 
> Not that I've ever been to a con, but I get the impression that this is probably how I'd feel at one.



I've never felt that I was surrounded by a bunch of sex obsessed people at any con :/

Anyways people are so obsessed over it because...well..people really like sex. You look at most commercials and they show you an attractive woman/man. Everywhere you go there's something about it. Why?

Because sex sells. It gets you attention. It's a status thing. People will always be obsessed about it no matter where you go or what fandom you're in.


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## Kitsu (Feb 8, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> Man, furcons need an asexual gathering group, or room or something, and I _don't_ mean an underage only group. Maybe just some folks who feel similarly about the obnoxious representation of raging hormones in the fandom, and how they'd rather avoid that scene. Being surrounded by hornballs gets really old really fast when you're not interested in it. :T
> 
> Not that I've ever been to a con, but I get the impression that this is probably how I'd feel at one.



See thats kind of my point. Its not that i dont care bout others or who they are. Its just time after time u gwt tired of the horndogs and just wish there was more to hear.  Im just tired of everything being sexual....it doesnt have to be that way 100%. Its just tiring to me and soils the fandom cause thats all u hear and see. And u wonder why furries get a bad rep.


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## benignBiotic (Feb 8, 2013)

Gibby said:


> Organise an asexual orgy!


What would that look like? A bunch of people sitting near each other I guess?


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## Schwimmwagen (Feb 8, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> What would that look like? A bunch of people sitting near each other I guess?



And chatting amongst each other.

_Happily~_


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## mojisu (Feb 8, 2013)

Because it brings the attention.
In the future I might learn how to use other peoples sexuality for profit, but right now it's just the pageviews.
That's my excuse.


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## Fallowfox (Feb 8, 2013)

Kazooie said:


> Regular exercise usually reduces my levels of sexualness, though recently my personality's turned all gross and all obsessed with dicks. Hopefully that'll change once I'm able to get back into my exercise regime.
> 
> I dunno about the statement that furries get no action, though. It seems really, really, really easy to get it on with the gays, and furry cons are apparently full of std-bestowing orgies.



Actually good regular exercise increases your sperm count by up to ~70%. 

Although maybe being away from comnputers means we feel less sexed up when we've done exercise.


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## Kazooie (Feb 8, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> What would that look like? A bunch of people sitting near each other I guess?


Sort of a zen monk gathering. Except all the monks are furries and are going "murrrrrrrrrr" instead of "ohmmmmmm".

e:


Fallowfox said:


> Actually good regular exercise increases your sperm count by up to ~70%.
> 
> Although maybe being away from computers means we feel less sexed up when we've done exercise.


Maybe exercise just helps stave off boredom and lethargy.


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## benignBiotic (Feb 8, 2013)

mojisu said:


> Because it brings the attention.
> In the future I might learn how to use other peoples sexuality for profit, but right now it's just the pageviews.
> That's my excuse.


Sex sells! True even in the furry fandom.


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## LemonJayde (Feb 8, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> 14-18 year old whore dogs


Who you callin a whoredog, whoredog?


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## Ikrit (Feb 8, 2013)

Riho said:


> And then, as Sweaty Wresting Guy #1 wrestled Sweaty Wrestling Guy #2 to the ground, he got an uncontrollable urge.
> This urge was shown to the entire audience as a bulge in his pants.
> Sweaty Wrestling Guy #2 saw this bulge, and giggled, sliding Sweaty Wresting Guy #1's tight fitting pants to the ground, and started-
> 
> God, I have to stop.


this actually happened in a fan fiction


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## Saiko (Feb 9, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> You like cacti too so WHAT NOW!
> 
> ...
> Prickly vaginas, I guess.


Lol mace v:

Oh dear. I'm replying to page 1 posts on page 4... I probably should go to bed now. >_>

OT: 
GIVE ME ALL DAH SMEX!


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## starcandy12 (Feb 9, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> See thats kind of my point. Its not that i dont care bout others or who they are. Its just time after time u gwt tired of the horndogs and just wish there was more to hear.  Im just tired of everything being sexual....it doesnt have to be that way 100%. Its just tiring to me and soils the fandom cause thats all u hear and see. And u wonder why furries get a bad rep.



I don't know, I'm probably living in a corner or something but I haven't met or seen anybody who was seriously like that.  Especially not 14-17 year olds (we have mature filters on all the time until we're 18, I think (and you get banned if they find out you're lying about your age, I'm pretty sure)). Maybe you're just finding the wrong people or looking at the wrong art. Try turning your filter on and talking with people who do clean general art. They might be horndogs too, but it'll be a lot less likely than say if you clicked a romantic-type picture.


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## Kitsu (Feb 9, 2013)

Yeah thank u ill check in to the filter. Never thought of that.


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## Andy Dingo Wolf (Feb 9, 2013)

Sexual? I'm not sexual. Not _here_ anyway. For me what goes on in the bedroom, _stays_ in the bedroom.


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## Riho (Feb 9, 2013)

Andy Dingo Wolf said:


> Sexual? I'm not sexual. Not _here_ anyway. For me what goes on in the bedroom, _stays_ in the bedroom.


I didn't read the URL and I was REALLY hoping it was a NSFW pic of your avatar.
Irony is never in my favor.

Are hugs sexual?


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## Dreaming (Feb 9, 2013)

Hello

After exposure to e621, I'm left wondering if the majority of the fandom are just taking the piss or if they genuinely find those things attractive and I doubt that I want to know the real answer 

But, Internet, sexual, everywhere, everything, rule 34... something something


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## Fallowfox (Feb 9, 2013)

Dreaming said:


> Hello
> 
> After exposure to e621, I'm left wondering if the majority of the fandom are just taking the piss or if they genuinely find those things attractive and I doubt that I want to know the real answer
> 
> But, Internet, sexual, everywhere, everything, rule 34... something something



What is e621?


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Feb 9, 2013)

Everyone is different that's what makes us who we are. If you like girls, that's cool, if you like guys, that's cool, if you like Furries that's cool, it is our differences that make us who we are and our similarities that make us a family.


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## Kitsu (Feb 9, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Everyone is different that's what makes us who we are. If you like girls, that's cool, if you like guys, that's cool, if you like Furries that's cool, it is our differences that make us who we are and our similarities that make us a family.



Very well said.  Take the ups and take the downs.  =) But together we are all unique and much like a family have to put up with eachothers shit once in awhile..Lol


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Feb 9, 2013)

Yep.


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## TheDarrdarr (Feb 9, 2013)

Humans are sexual beings. We are always thinking about sex. The difference is that there is a strong sense of openness in the furry community, so therefore we end up being more open about sexuality here. A lot of people are into weird things but they're not really allowed to express that because our society is so ashamed and scared of sex.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Feb 9, 2013)

Unfortunately... Yep. D:


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## Batty Krueger (Feb 9, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> What is e621?


A site I visit 12 times a day.


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## Percy (Feb 9, 2013)

d.batty said:


> A site I visit 12 times a day.


Not surprisingly. :V

It's essentially an image site catered toward yiff.


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## slashlife (Feb 10, 2013)

there are sex crazed furries in all age groups, and they're all creepy. i watch some furry porn, but its not all i look at, and i keep it to myself (i don't go around talking/obsessing about porn)


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## tharesan.alae (Feb 11, 2013)

Something to keep in mind is that we are not just furries, we are humans.  A large percentage of humans are addicted to sex and it's the focus point of their lives.  It would make sense that a roughly equal percentage of furries would be the same way, since the furry fandom is made up 100% of humans.  Yeah, those aren't real statistics, but hopefully you get the point.

Plus, this is the internet.  People can let out all their personal garbage here with no consequence.

Now if you're really interested in lessening the sex drive of the furry community, you may want to abstain from the things that perpetuate this. 

Would porn artists still create porn if they received less attention?  
Would furry artists start creating more tasteful art if porn wasn't in such high demand?  
Would furries behave themselves more if you rebuke their 'naughty' behavior?  
Would furries be a little better if you and others choose to be better?  
Would I feel better about myself and the community?

I don't have the answers to these questions, and there are still many more to ask.  If the community wants to revolve around yiff, then let it be, because I think people should have freedom to do what they want.  Of course, you each have your own decisions to make, so don't let others make your decisions for you.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Feb 11, 2013)

tharesan.alae said:


> I don't have the answers to these questions, and there are still many more to ask.  If the community wants to revolve around yiff, then let it be, because I think people should have freedom to do what they want.  Of course, you each have your own decisions to make, so don't let others make your decisions for you.



Exactly. Everyone has their own fetishes, it's their business, people do not have the right to judge them for it. To try to eliminate that would just be another form of discrimination, like racism and sexism.


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## Littlerock (Feb 11, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Everyone has their own fetishes



_Misconception alert!_

Not everyone has a fetish, wants sex, feels sexual attraction, or even thinks about having sex. 

Yn'z'guys can continue now. :>


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## Troj (Feb 11, 2013)

Potential research question ahoy: has anyone ever asked or looked at how much of the porn-adoring fandom is exclusively into anthro porn/erotica, versus how many people are into non-anthro porn/erotica, versus how many people dabble in both or either? 

_Anyway_, as I understand it, while some people do seem to just resent furries for having "weird" fetishes, it seems like the main pet peeve actually revolves around the problem of a select group of "squeaky wheels" just lacking boundaries, social sensitivity, and/or self-awareness, and thinking that because they're not ashamed of Who They Are (read: what they fap to), their fetish needs to be posted to Youtube, or tattooed on an extremity, or shared with everyone on the 22 Downtown Express bus.

What makes it worse is that "these types" tend to have zero sense of humor about themselves, and that profound and critical lack of perspective is why they try to earnestly foist their fetish onto innocent bystanders.


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## Trpdwarf (Feb 11, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Exactly. Everyone has their own fetishes, it's their business, people do not have the right to judge them for it. To try to eliminate that would just be another form of discrimination, like racism and sexism.



I would love to live in a world where people don't assume everyone has fetish's just because they do. Just saying, as someone who isn't sexual, has no interest in porn (only looks at it when it's necessary as part of answering a T.T or if it happens to be the only reference a customer has), and came to the community for the reason the community exists.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Feb 11, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> _Misconception alert!_
> 
> Not everyone has a fetish, wants sex, feels sexual attraction, or even thinks about having sex.
> 
> Yn'z'guys can continue now. :>



yes, but there are so few of those people around in the world, after all we *ARE* actual human beings with hormones are we not? might i add the majority of furries range from ages 15 to 27, which tends to be be a very hormonal period in our lives, does it not?



Troj said:


> Anyway, as I understand it, while some people do seem to just resent  furries for having "weird" fetishes, it seems like the main pet peeve  actually revolves around the problem of some folks just lacking  boundaries and/or self-awareness, and thinking that because they're "out  and proud" about their turn-on or fetish, it needs to be posted to  Youtube, or tattooed on an extremity.



Really? So your saying we shouldn't be proud of and stand up for what we like and believe in?



Troj said:


> What makes it worse is that "these types" tend to have zero sense of  humor about themselves, which is why they try to earnestly foist it on  innocent bystanders.



(1) i wouldn't call it foisting it on others, their just very very enthusiastic about what they like and are always eager to find some1 like them.

(2) With all the idiots and jerks in the world who despise us, give us this outrageously horrible image, and sometimes take violent action against us for something we don't even do, do you really think this is something to be humorous about?



Trpdwarf said:


> I  would love to live in a world where people don't assume *everyone has  fetish's just because they do*. Just saying, as someone who isn't sexual,  has no interest in porn (only looks at it when it's necessary as part  of answering a T.T or if it happens to be the only reference a customer  has), and came to the community for the reason the community exists.



I never said people have fetishes "just because they do." People have their own fetishes for their own personal reasons, and anything can be a fetish, even the most common thing, same species heterosexuality. A fetish is really just a strong interest in something.


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## Trpdwarf (Feb 11, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> I never said people have fetishes "just because they do." People have their own fetishes for their own personal reasons, and anything can be a fetish, even the most common thing, same species heterosexuality. A fetish is really just a strong interest in something.



When society in general hears the word "Fetish" the immediate connotation is sexual. With that in mind it is poor taste to sit and say "Everyone has a fetish's" because the meaning is not what it was and the assertion creates a very different kind of conclusion than what you naively suggest. If you are going to say "Everyone has a strong interest in something" say that. You don't need to used a charged word that causes false conclusions (and trust me it does).


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## Butters Shikkon (Feb 11, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> What is e621?



And with that question...a life changes forever. :v


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## Trpdwarf (Feb 11, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> And with that question...a life changes forever. :v



What is seen cannot be unseen. Remember that before you embark on sites unknown.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Feb 11, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> When society in general hears the word "Fetish" the immediate connotation is sexual. With that in mind it is poor taste to sit and say "Everyone has a fetish's" because the meaning is not what it was and the assertion creates a very different kind of conclusion than what you naively suggest. If you are going to say "Everyone has a strong interest in something" say that. You don't need to used a charged word that causes false conclusions (and trust me it does).



Even if people don't know what fetish actually means, like i said before: we *ARE* human beings and most of us tend to have a sexual side.


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## Littlerock (Feb 12, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> yes, but there are so few of those people around in the world...



We are more common than you might think, actually. It is informally estimated that roughly 1% of the world's living human population is asexual, so that's easily 70,000,000 people worldwide that do not care for sex. That seems like kind of a huge number of people to ignore.


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## Trpdwarf (Feb 12, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Even if people don't know what fetish actually means, like i said before: we *ARE* human beings and most of us tend to have a sexual side.



That is true. Being human does not mean though that the entirety of things have to devolve to being explicitly and excessively sexual in nature. This is the frustration being brought up by OP. 



Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry. Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs? Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex. Its about being something better than who you are inside. Becoming something you wish you could. Living a second life thru your Fursona. Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing. =/


 Why can't furry be about things other than sex? Furry is about things other than sex. The excesses of the sexual content is in direct relation with how furries are the only real source of a very niche form of erotica. For humans who like regular human porn there are bastions of sites out there. The same cannot be said for those seeking anthropomorphic animal erotica. So if seems like there is an excess this is part of why. As we can only find this content through self creation, sites where furries converge online are likely to have a lot of it. It doesn't mean much though and to draw any conclusion other than the obvious is to be putting too much into it.

It is worth a mention that furry does not have the luxury of a real cannon. This is very important when it comes to appearances of what furry is versus what it really is.

Moving on for the many people who early on have a "Coming out or sexual identity phase"...this only half has anything to do with the fandom. This is something actually gaining in commonality outside of the furry community. As the orientation of "Straight" becomes less and less of the "Only accepted orientation" and acceptance of others begins to grow (or acceptance is fought to be won) the likelihood of people going through a public phase of questioning their sexuality is going to increase. This will happen with younger members as they begin to hit that time in their life where their sexuality begins to become an exploration because puberty is taking a toll. Keep in mind due partially to current diet in certain parts of the world, puberty is happening sooner than usual. What does this mean?

The Furry Community has a reputation for being accepting of these different orientations. People are joining for that reason alone. They want a place where they can feel at home, where people won't judge them based on their sexuality. They can find common ground and support as they explore sexuality as well. There is also a third factor but it's not exactly to important to bring up here. These things said there are plenty of non sexual things in this community for you to enjoy. You have to find them and join them.


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## Troj (Feb 12, 2013)

> Really? So your saying we shouldn't be proud of and stand up for what we like and believe in?



Proud, sure.

But, unless someone's trying to actively infringing upon your rights or your dignity, there may not necessarily be a need to "stand up" per se.

LGBTQ people regularly have to assert themselves, for example, because there are people and organizations in society who actively want to restrict their rights, and their ability to marry, to form families, to receive a proper education, to compete for the job of their choice, to have children, etc. 



> (1) i wouldn't call it foisting it on others, their just very very enthusiastic about what they like and are always eager to find some1 like them.



Or get attention, which is probably why some folks go on skeezy talk shows, or agree to appear on obviously-exploitative TV shows.

Well, and there are discreet and indiscreet ways to find people who might share your fetish, natch.



> (2) With all the idiots and jerks in the world who despise us, give us this outrageously horrible image, and sometimes take violent action against us for something we don't even do, do you really think this is something to be humorous about?



Vaclav Havel once said, "Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs  the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at  himself does not."

Being able to laugh at yourself doesn't mean you don't believe in yourself, like yourself, or consider yourself unworthy or unlovable--quite the opposite, in fact! It means you're confident and self-assured enough to be willing to admit that you're not perfect, or that some of the things you say, do, or like might sometimes be silly or odd, especially to outside observers.

And, recognizing that you may look or seem odd or silly to others _doesn't_ mean you necessarily just drop, deny, or abandon your goals, dreams, hobbies, and interests--it just means you don't have any illusions about what people think about you.

Having a sense of humor about yourself also prevents you from succumbing utterly to self-absorption, navel-gazing, neuroticism, or delusions of either grandeur or persecution. It keeps you grounded in reality.

Part of what's made some of Those Shows about furries so cringeworthy and uncomfortable--at least for me--is the fact that everything (including, but not limited to, sex stuff) is treated as Sacred Serious Business. (That, and the fact that there's often this desperate undercurrent of, "Do you accept me? Am I acceptable? Well? Well?" to the proceedings, in spite of the emphatic declarations of self-pride and self-acceptance.)

(Well, and never mind just furries--sex_, period, _tends to be pretty goofy, silly, and awkward at times, despite Hollywood's attempts to make it seem like it's all grace and lace! This means that more people than just furries could sometimes stand to step back and marvel at the absurdity of it all.)


----------



## benignBiotic (Feb 12, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> (1) i wouldn't call it foisting it on others, their just very very enthusiastic about what they like and are always eager to find some1 like them.
> 
> (2) With all the idiots and jerks in the world who despise us, give us this outrageously horrible image, and sometimes take violent action against us for something we don't even do, do you really think this is something to be humorous about?


Troj already wrapped this up pretty well, but I wanted to add that 'fetish enthusiasm' isn't appropriate every place that is shows up. Save your 'enthusiasm' for seedy fur sites.

Also having a sense of humor about ones self is very important. Especially for furries. The general lack of humor in the furry community is precisely why it's such a huge target for trolls. All it takes is the slightest provocation for furs to start flipping out and vomiting drama. FAF is different from the fandom at large in a lot of ways but one of them is that we have a sense of humor here. We're all furries to some degree but we can laugh at ourselves and the fandom.


----------



## briantaylor (Feb 12, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



This is probably a really unpopular thing to say, but I canâ€™t help feeling that if you meet 14-18 year old furfags everywhere in the fandom, then doesnâ€™t that mean that the fandom IS 14-18 year old furfags? 

The definition of furry is dictated by those who chose to call themselves furry. If itâ€™s true what you say, that the fandom seem to consist mostly of 14-18 year old furfags, then, for all _intents and purposes_ thatâ€™s what being furry is. And sadly, no matter how much you dislike it, thatâ€™s how people are going to view furries. 

My personal definition of furry is someone with an above-normal fascination with anthropomorphic non-human animal characters. Some of these people are going to be fursuiters, some of them are going to be furfags, some of them have fursonas. They are all true furries.

Many people here argue that being furry is just a hobby. Ironically, many of these people seem to have animal fursonas they like to represent themselves as, some of them seem to be into fursuiting. These people have a drastically different definition of hobby than I have, because Iâ€™d say that having a fursona and fursuiting makes you a fanatical, not a hobbyist. But hey, whatever boats your floats.   But the very term hobby is unambiguous and useless in any debate to begin with.  

Personally, I just drop in once a week to check for good art. I think that makes me a furry, and thatâ€™s more of a hobby level for me. I donâ€™t have any fursona. I donâ€™t have any animal that I feel I can relate to. I donâ€™t which I was an â€œanthroâ€ (which ironically means human in greek). Bu then again, that's just me.


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 12, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> We are more common than you might think, actually. It is informally estimated that roughly 1% of the world's living human population is asexual, so that's easily 70,000,000 people worldwide that do not care for sex. That seems like kind of a huge number of people to ignore.


Out of interest does this include children, the very elderly etcetera?


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## Littlerock (Feb 12, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Out of interest does this include children, the very elderly etcetera?



Since it's nigh impossible to get a correct answer out of a child as to their sexual orientation (since they've not yet reached puberty), I am lead to believe that a general population poll was done on people who are ages 18 and older, then calculated to approximate how many children are likely to be asexual, which is then included in the final data.

But to be honest, I don't know. It's been a good while since I did research on this, and there might me a more current/accurate percentage assumption based on other polls.


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## Fallowfox (Feb 12, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> Since it's nigh impossible to get a correct answer out of a child as to their sexual orientation (since they've not yet reached puberty), I am lead to believe that a general population poll was done on people who are ages 18 and older, then calculated to approximate how many children are likely to be asexual, which is then included in the final data.
> 
> But to be honest, I don't know. It's been a good while since I did research on this, and there might me a more current/accurate percentage assumption based on other polls.



I was wondering whether children would be excluded or included entirely, since there's much confusion on whether they are automatically asexual until puberty.


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## Bambi (Feb 12, 2013)

TheDarrdarr said:


> A lot of people are into weird things but they're not really allowed to express that because our society is so ashamed and scared of sex.


Moralfag reporting!

EDIT: Misread, moralfag standing down.

SORRY THEDARRDARR!


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## Fallowfox (Feb 12, 2013)

I don't see what was so objectionable with the darrdarr's comment.  Regardless of content he is correct that even in progressive societies  sex is treated as an offensive subject, even naked bodies with no  intrinsic reference to sexual acitivity trigger a strong response from  many people. 

Some aspects of sex are rightly considered offensive, others are obscure, this doesn't render darrdarr's comment pointless, and the thrust of it- that strange sexual desire is a _generally_ exhibited human behaviour is very obviously correct. [perhaps captain state the obvious], and that much of the hoo-haa around the whole subject is plain silly, is quite true. 

Perhaps we can view the general human attitude to sex as the same as a bird's relationship with its eggs. Birds like big eggs, they prefer them because they have a better chance of survival. If you give a bird a choice between brooding a nest of real eggs and a nest of artificial big eggs it will be more likely to brood the big eggs. Birds will even attempt to brood _unrealistically_ large fake eggs, sound familiar?

This appetite for excess exists in many creatures because they do not have the chance in a natural setting to be harmed by brooding large artificial eggs; that is a risk introduced by domestication. Similarly the whole silly specificity, obscurity and hyperbole of human sexuality which quite clearly drives many people wild because that's exactly what it is- a wild drive, has had no function to limit excess in natural settings. Limits imposed by our self-domestication are ofcourse not going to sit well with this raging beast.


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## Littlerock (Feb 12, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I was wondering whether children would be excluded or included entirely, since there's much confusion on whether they are automatically asexual until puberty.



I think it was counted as a number of children that are likely to be asexual when they grow up, rather than count them as they feel at the time. It would seem that everyone is asexual until puberty though, so this is a very valid query!


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## Bambi (Feb 12, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> This appetite for excess exists in many creatures because they do not have the chance in a natural setting to be harmed by brooding large artificial eggs; that is a risk introduced by domestication. Similarly the whole silly specificity, obscurity and hyperbole of human sexuality which quite clearly drives many people wild because that's exactly what it is- a wild drive, has had no function to limit excess in natural settings. Limits imposed by our self-domestication are ofcourse not going to sit well with this raging beast.


... my response came too late then. 

I read his quote-thingie out of context. Sorry guys! Whoop whoop carry on!


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## Fallowfox (Feb 12, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> I think it was counted as a number of children  that are likely to be asexual when they grow up, rather than count them  as they feel at the time. It would seem to me that everyone is asexual  until puberty though, so this is a very valid query!



That introduces a big scope for error, because without a huge pool  of data over a handful of decades to check the predictions are right,  this could skew the results massively. [although your point that a statistically significant number of adults are asexual would still be true]

_Anyway_ having read back further on the other comments I'm realising this tangent might be a bit irrelevant. I think I'll have to go back and read_ several pages _in order to construct a comment that actually replies to anybody's point, rather than overtones, details and tangents.


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## Bambi (Feb 12, 2013)

Littlerock said:


> I think it was counted as a number of children that are likely to be asexual when they grow up, rather than count them as they feel at the time. It would seem that everyone is asexual until puberty though, so this is a very valid query!


What do you guys think about the idea that children know their sexuality before they reach puberty?

Heard it tossed around in some LGBT circles, not sure if it's entirely relevant. My personal experience ... would say I agree with that perspective, but again, I haven't searched for any real data on that since hearing it a couple of weeks ago.


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## Fallowfox (Feb 12, 2013)

Bambi said:


> What do you guys think about the idea that children know their sexuality before they reach puberty?
> 
> Heard it tossed around in some LGBT circles, not sure if it's entirely relevant. My personal experience ... would say I agree with that perspective, but again, I haven't searched for any real data on that since hearing it a couple of weeks ago.



My _expert _knowledge, which is arranged from fragments of wikipedia articles and the internet, indicates this is true to an extent, or at least becoming a more popular view amongst psychologists. 

However from a personal anecdotal point of view I cannot be sure that I haven't just retrospectively applied my current identity to the memories of myself as a child.


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## Bambi (Feb 12, 2013)

You know, I'd love to have that view of it all, FallowFox. You said something interesting right there: "I haven't just retrospectively applied my current identity to the memories of myself as a child."

To respond to that, I was very sexual as a child. At the age of five ... I was drawing dicks. It disturbed my parents, I got into a lot of trouble ... stuff happened. I'm just censoring shit so it doesn't seem like I want asspats for being such a unique, special little butterfly. Now I mention that because I felt like I knew what my sexuality was then, which was bisexual, but as a kid I never had a word for it.

So, in hearing your part about retrospectively applying a current identity to memories, I wonder if that's what it is like for ... the other side, when they hear that stuff about other people knowing before they reach puberty. I wonder if people actually project their sexuality, perhaps unintentionally, into their memories of youth when they weren't actually there. I'm sure it happens.


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## Kitsu (Feb 12, 2013)

I am highly impressed with everyones views on sexuality and hitting it in the youth.  I know when I was younger, I thought of it cause it was on tv.  Shit, I was 8-10 years old watching springer.  Its everywhere in everyones head.  Its programed into us.  But the point of just being smacked in the head with sex is just overwhelming and tiresome.  Just seems when they are younger; preteens, teens and young adults, its just all they think about an all they want. Its just hard to deal with cause I know when I was younger, it wasnt so in the open.  More hush hush...And seemed  be the way everyone understood it. 
I think now with this new generation its what they were "bred" to do.  Your born to have sex to reproduce and to die....I just personally wish parents would smack their kids, quiet giving in to their "every need" and show them a better way to be.  

I vote for us to go back to to the like 1950's where parents actually spend time with kids, home cooked meals and less erotic tv...Lol  =)


----------



## tharesan.alae (Feb 12, 2013)

Too many assumptions and generalizations being made.


----------



## Judge Spear (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm a huge pervert. I'm just not a creep and know when or rather _where_ I should keep a lid on it. I've actually been cutting down on the sexy drawings and uploading more photography and machine sketches lately.

I really don't give a shit how sexual someone is unless it makes them negative in character i.e. is LITERALLY all they've made their lives revolve around or is into illegal debauchery. I can't judge how other's online are heavily active with sex because as much as we'd like to draw concrete conclusions of people from the Internet, it's still a non physical side of them. Of course if they SHARE their personal business, that's a different story and I don't mean sexual preferences. 
Maybe, I'm more lenient because I live under a rock and tend to not see this truly horrid stuff everyone here talks about except like...every other month. I've yet to see these "multibreast shitting dick nipple" fursonas people have on the tip of their fingers and claim is everywhere.

But I see sexual content like I see violent content. Viewing either seems...healthy to me in when it's in doses at appropriate places and times. I won't get in further in THAT though. My own personal philosophy.


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 12, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I am highly impressed with everyones views on sexuality and hitting it in the youth.  I know when I was younger, I thought of it cause it was on tv.  Shit, I was 8-10 years old watching springer.  Its everywhere in everyones head.  Its programed into us.  But the point of just being smacked in the head with sex is just overwhelming and tiresome.  Just seems when they are younger; preteens, teens and young adults, its just all they think about an all they want. Its just hard to deal with cause I know when I was younger, it wasnt so in the open.  More hush hush...And seemed  be the way everyone understood it.
> I think now with this new generation its what they were "bred" to do.  Your born to have sex to reproduce and to die....I just personally wish parents would smack their kids, quiet giving in to their "every need" and show them a better way to be.
> 
> I vote for us to go back to to the like 1950's where parents actually spend time with kids, home cooked meals and less erotic tv...Lol  =)



I definitely prefer this world to the 1950's I've read about, and every generation seems to think the one after it is worse, despite the unrelenting progress of knowledge, social development and technology these generations preside over. 

Perhaps a relevant quote to dredge up, I think from Frida Kahlo, is that 'in america sex is an obsession, in the rest of the world it's a fact,'.



tharesan.alae said:


> Too many assumptions and generalizations being made.



I'll try harder.


----------



## Ricky (Feb 12, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex. * Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.*  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



Uhh, no. That's called "being delusional."


----------



## Bambi (Feb 12, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Species:       Squigger


And you're what's called being a comedian!  lol


----------



## Kitsu (Feb 12, 2013)

I may be delusional to think that we could be better ppl but u cant tell me if or when ur being ur furry u arent being someone else. More playfu and less shy or more comfortable in the new skin u have. I know personally when i wear my particals that i feel more alive and free to be me.


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## Ricky (Feb 12, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I may be delusional to think that we could be better ppl but u cant tell me if or when ur being ur furry u arent being someone else. More playfu and less shy or more comfortable in the new skin u have. I know personally when i wear my particals that i feel more alive and free to be me.



No. I'm not.

I didn't get involved in furry to live in fantasy-land and pretend to be someone I'm not. I'll admit, this escapist philosophy is prevalent but it is also quite debilitating. Instead of *pretending* to be the person you want, why not take steps to *become* that person?

If you really feel you need to wear a mask to develop that self-confidence you probably have some self-esteem issues you need to overcome. Living in fantasy-land to try and overcome these limitations won't help build you as a person.

That said, there's nothing wrong with role play. Personally, I don't have the attention span or imagination for it; the cards I've been dealt over the years have turned me into a cynical and bitter prick. If you are doing it to "express your true self" you are doing it wrong, though. Express your true self all the time, without putting on a mask.


----------



## Kitsu (Feb 12, 2013)

With or without the parts i am full of spunk and playfullness. I wear my suit to bring joy to myself as well as others.  I find that life isnt handed to u and u gotta do it urself.  I enjoy making ppl smile and making ppl laugh.  I was dancing with kids yesterday making everyone happy and being my furry makes me even more happier. I dont need to pretend but it is fun.  Fur in all


----------



## Batty Krueger (Feb 12, 2013)

Well when I put on my suit I'm still myself.  I still act the same way as if I were out of suit.  I don't need to be all bouncy and fake to make myself and others around me happy.  Those spazzy bouncy suiters get annoying alot of the time.  Like I said.  I'm still me in or out of my suit.


----------



## Troj (Feb 12, 2013)

Ricky said:


> I didn't get involved in furry to live in fantasy-land and pretend to be someone I'm not. I'll admit, this escapist philosophy is prevalent but it is also quite debilitating. Instead of *pretending* to be the person you want, why not take steps to *become* that person?
> 
> If you really feel you need to wear a mask to develop that self-confidence you probably have some self-esteem issues you need to overcome. Living in fantasy-land to try and overcome these limitations won't help build you as a person.



That second sentence nails it. 

I think the fandom can provide opportunities for one to refine and develop various artistic skills--writing, drawing, costume-building, singing, dancing, acting, and the like.

It can also provide opportunities for one to experiment or play with facets of one's identity.

It can even allow one to blow off a little steam, and take a break from one's own 9-to-5 workaday life.

_To an extent_, it can provide shy or socially awkward people with a safe space in which to build their interpersonal skills and confidence. (It can also potentially seriously undermine the development of those same skills, if those individuals happen to land in a hugbox that automatically reinforces and applauds them for everything they do. Bad juju, man.)

One thing that used to skeeve me out about the furry fandom was when documentaries or TV shows would highlight those people who seemed to be using the fandom to actually escape and deny their own inadequacies and insecurities. 

Pretending to be a fox or a lion because it's fun for you, brings joy to others, and helps you to hone your acting skills is totally cool and completely healthy.

Pretending to be a fox or a lion (or a night elf paladin, or a Jedi, or a crew member of the Enterprise) because you're inwardly upset or distraught about not being that fox or lion character (or Jedi or paladin or space explorer), on the other hand, is _not_. 

People who use furry largely to escape _themselves_ are just putting a band-aid over a festering wound, in my estimation. Not only does it not solve or address the deeper problem lurking in that person's life, but it provides them with just enough of a false sense of resolution or temporary satisfaction that they remain caught in the loop.

So, yes, I'd seriously caution folks against putting too much hope in the fandom's ability to help them metamorphose into a better or more lovable person.


----------



## Holtzmann (Feb 13, 2013)

Troj said:


> People who use furry largely to escape _themselves_ are just putting a band-aid over a festering wound, in my estimation. Not only does it not solve or address the deeper problem lurking in that person's life, but it provides them with just enough of a false sense of resolution or temporary satisfaction that they remain caught in the loop.


Great post. It left me wondering about something a bit more related to the original topic of this thread.

Where does all this escapism leave the folks who merrily sail away from the shores of sexual reality and into the strange seas of literally physically impossible fetishes? Certainly, people can be attracted to multiple things at once, but I've found quite a few people who seem to have built their entire concept of attraction and sexual satisfaction upon idealized or completely impossible fetishes they would never be able to practice in real life. Getting to that point makes it seem rather unhealthy.


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 13, 2013)

Holtzmann said:


> Great post. It left me wondering about something a bit more related to the original topic of this thread.
> 
> Where does all this escapism leave the folks who merrily sail away from the shores of sexual reality and into the strange seas of literally physically impossible fetishes? Certainly, people can be attracted to multiple things at once, but I've found quite a few people who seem to have built their entire concept of attraction and sexual satisfaction upon idealized or completely impossible fetishes they would never be able to practice in real life. Getting to that point makes it seem rather unhealthy.



I don't think many people decide to have those propencities, or intentionally develop them. They might be a reflection of a sub conscious psychological rational, but then again they could be entirely _without_ justification or a manifestation of an inbuilt inclination to fantasise- it matters not whether a compulsion is realistic if it still manages to drive a biological imperative in the general population.


----------



## Holtzmann (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't think many people decide to have those propencities, or intentionally develop them. They might be a reflection of a sub conscious psychological rational, but then again they could be entirely _without_ justification or a manifestation of an inbuilt inclination to fantasise- it matters not whether a compulsion is realistic if it still manages to drive a biological imperative in the general population.


I don't know...

I've met a decent number of furs who seem (I'm not in their heads so there is no way to prove) to have made a conscious choice to discard _anything _unrelated to their favorite subject, for one reason or another. Oddly, I have found quite a few of those in the anime fandom as well, although those seem to do that more as a semi-disguised acceptance of the fact they won't look for sexual gratification in real life because they believe they wouldn't be able to find it if they tried.


----------



## Cairn (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't think many people decide to have those propencities, or intentionally develop them. They might be a reflection of a sub conscious psychological rational, but then again they could be entirely _without_ justification or a manifestation of an inbuilt inclination to fantasise- it matters not whether a compulsion is realistic if it still manages to drive a biological imperative in the general population.


 Yes, and all that really matters in the end is how people let their fetishes affect their actions, and whether or not they are bothered by said fetishes. I get the impression that a lot of people with strange attractions to things wish they weren't attracted to them.


----------



## Ozriel (Feb 13, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Well when I put on my suit I'm still myself.  I still act the same way as if I were out of suit.  I don't need to be all bouncy and fake to make myself and others around me happy.  Those spazzy bouncy suiters get annoying alot of the time.  Like I said.  I'm still me in or out of my suit.



It depends on how you establish the character. One of my characters (Zeke) Is a grumpy librarian who will attempt to beat you senseless with "Crime and Punishment" as soon as you mention Twilight or Fifty shades of grey. I established that he loves books and if I get a fullsuit done of him,, his prop will be a book, a vest, and a pipe. It will also be something I can use when the Library has its anniversary programs for kids and when they need a mascot for story-time.

Now, there are people who buy fursuits to want to blur the lines between themselves and their character. They want to "BE" that character 100%, so they invest as much as possible to forget their issues with themselves to take on another persona...which brings in more issues on its own. It's better to understand yourself first and foremost before you take on another face.




Cairn said:


> Yes, and all that really matters in the end is how people let their fetishes affect their actions, and whether or not they said fetishes. I get the impression that a lot of people with strange attractions to things wish they weren't attracted to them.



And there's those who take their fetishes and make it their identities, rather than an interest.


----------



## Troj (Feb 13, 2013)

Holtzmann said:


> Where does all this escapism leave the folks who merrily sail away from the shores of sexual reality and into the strange seas of literally physically impossible fetishes? Certainly, people can be attracted to multiple things at once, but I've found quite a few people who seem to have built their entire concept of attraction and sexual satisfaction upon idealized or completely impossible fetishes they would never be able to practice in real life. Getting to that point makes it seem rather unhealthy.



I think we all have our fantasies and dreams, but the important thing is to be able to recognize them as such.

I have some fetishes myself which I actually _wouldn't_ want to have realized in reality, because bringing that fantasy into the real world as it exists would prove dangerous, unpleasant, overwhelming, over-stimulating, or just plain not-friggin-possible.

It occurs to me that one _could_ potentially argue that the "weirder," more fantastical, and more implausible fetishes are "safer," in a way, than the more common, often more socially-acceptable fetishes which are still implausible or impractical, but in a more subtle way. Most people should hopefully (!) realize that they'll never get to fuck a fifty-foot-tall echidna with giant tits, but lots of regular folks don't seem to realize that their chances of getting to bang an 85-pound supermodel are about nil. Yay or nay? Thoughts?

Either way, when fantasy and reality start to blur, that's when problems arise.


----------



## Cairn (Feb 13, 2013)

Troj said:


> I think we all have our fantasies and dreams, but the important thing is to be able to recognize them as such.
> 
> I have some fetishes myself which I actually _wouldn't_ want to have realized in reality, because bringing that fantasy into the real world as it exists would prove dangerous, unpleasant, overwhelming, over-stimulating, or just plain not-friggin-possible.
> 
> ...


I think you made a great point. The implausible fetishes are also, in a way, safer for others too. As you said, a person with a fetish that they know won't ever happen IRL is less likely to act on their fetish than say, someone who is attracted to children.

Then again, I don't think people choose their fetishes so does that really mean anything?


----------



## Holtzmann (Feb 13, 2013)

Troj said:


> It occurs to me that one _could_ potentially argue that the "weirder," more fantastical, and more implausible fetishes are "safer," in a way, than the more common, often more socially-acceptable fetishes which are still implausible or impractical, but in a more subtle way. Most people should hopefully (!) realize that they'll never get to fuck a fifty-foot-tall echidna with giant tits, but lots of regular folks don't seem to realize that their chances of getting to bang an 85-pound supermodel are about nil. Yay or nay? Thoughts?


I think it really depends on the individual. I have my share of impossible fetishes (at least with current levels of technology...), but I know they're fairly silly and they're only a chunk of the things that excite me. I'd wager a good bet that most people are like that.

But for some not being able to materialize something they are very emotionally invested in could prove to be frustrating after a while. Using your own example, my chances to bang an 85-pound supermodel might be close to zero, but they're still a non-zero value (more like being struck by lightning and a falling piano at the same time). Someone fantasizing exclusively about doing it with a fifty-foot-tall echidna with breasts the size of refrigerators is at zero chance by default, and there is nothing they could do to improve those odds. Again, I see an analogue of that on the few otaku who dedicate themselves to building shrines to Hatsune Miku.

I fully agree that when fantasy and reality starts to blur, you've got a problem. But how can someone tell that line is blurred, when their perceptions are already affected by that blurring?


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 13, 2013)

I don't think that the blurring between 'aspirational' and 'ficticious' attractions is necessarily bad. For example someone may be attracted to cowboys. The probability of actually meeting a cowboy is slim, but they can have any partner concede to pretending to be one and there's no negative I can see in this. 

I think negatives only emerge when one of the attractions, either aspirational or ficticious, is _already_ loaded with a harmful trait.


----------



## Holtzmann (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I think negatives only emerge when one of the attractions, either aspirational or ficticious, is _already_ loaded with a harmful trait.


I might have been just distracted by the fact your avatar now has fur and skin, but... I think I really missed the message in this particular line. Do you have any examples?


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 13, 2013)

Holtzmann said:


> I might have been just distracted by the fact your avatar now has fur and skin, but... I think I really missed the message in this particular line. Do you have any examples?



If you are attracted to unreasonably slim people you could feel compelled to pressure someone into feeling sub-standard for not matching this archetype.
If you are particularly sadistic you may risk harming a partner by overlapping imaginary and severe punishments with real ones. 

The negativity derives from parts of the desire, rather than blurring unlikely fantasy with reality.

...maybe I just stated the obvious


----------



## Ozriel (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't think that the blurring between 'aspirational' and 'ficticious' attractions is necessarily bad. For example someone may be attracted to cowboys. The probability of actually meeting a cowboy is slim, but they can have any partner concede to pretending to be one and there's no negative I can see in this.
> 
> I think negatives only emerge when one of the attractions, either aspirational or ficticious, is _already_ loaded with a harmful trait.



I think it is in the sense of I want to be my murrsona, then aspiring on the traits that make the murrsona great. Even going as far as changing one's name to "Foxy McSparkledick" to be as close to that character.


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 13, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> I think it is in the sense of I want to be my murrsona, then aspiring on the traits that make the murrsona great. Even going as far as changing one's name to "Foxy McSparkledick" to be as close to that character.


Okay.

In the UK we have a Mister Doctor Omelette Pasty Smasher, although I don't think he actually likes baking at all.


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## Ozriel (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Okay.
> 
> In the UK we have a Mister Doctor Omelette Pasty Smasher, although I don't think he actually likes baking at all.



http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ame-legally-changed-to-boomer-the-dog-258970/
:V

There's a guy in my area that changed his name legally to one of the characters in the Lion king too.


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 13, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ame-legally-changed-to-boomer-the-dog-258970/
> :V
> 
> There's a guy in my area that changed his name legally to one of the characters in the Lion king too.



That is rather extreme. 

It's weird that americans have to go to court to change their names. We can do it for Â£33 online.


----------



## Troj (Feb 13, 2013)

Cairn said:


> Then again, I don't think people choose their fetishes so does that really mean anything?



Yeah, it seems like most people's fetishes are spontaneously triggered via some form or another of operant conditioning. I don't think most people choose their fetishes, no--BUT, you can definitely choose how you appraise, build upon, and act upon your fetishes, and you can absolutely choose whether or how they define you and your choices as a person.



> But how can someone tell that line is blurred, when their perceptions are already affected by that blurring?



Offhand, I'd say when your perceptions start to adversely affect your daily functioning, or when they bring more pain than pleasure to yourself and/or others.

If not being able to satisfy your fetish is causing you pain, sadness, or anxiety, that's a problem.

If your attempts to satisfy your fetish typically lead to undue and unwanted pain, sadness, anxiety, or injury, it may be time to re-evaluate what you're doing, because that's also sounding like a problem.

If your attempts to satisfy your fetish are causing others undue and unwanted pain, sadness, anxiety, or injury, that is DEFINITELY a serious problem.

Well, and I brought this up in another thread here, but having a sense of humor about yourself can go a looooooong way. Humor can serve as a wonderful reality check. I'm not sure you can be a true creeper or perv, while being able to honestly joke about being a creeper or perv, because real creepers and pervs tend to take their urges and inclinations TOO seriously, which is why they feel they have the right to cross boundaries or take unnatural risks to satisfy them.


----------



## Ozriel (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> That is rather extreme.
> 
> It's weird that americans have to go to court to change their names. We can do it for Â£33 online.



Legal ramifications, etc.


----------



## Riho (Feb 13, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> That is rather extreme.
> 
> It's weird that americans have to go to court to change their names. We can do it for Â£33 online.


AAaaaand done!
Gonna be off for a couple days, moving to the UK.
You may now call me "Epicsmash McNorrischurchill."


----------



## Furry Anarchy (Feb 13, 2013)

Errrrrm i'm only 16 but i've never mentioned anything to do with sex or yiffing. Also i don't really like the large percentage that do. But as other people have said Fur affinity is not focused on yiffing and sex, actually iv'e found it rather fun to be in this forum just because people are nice and friendly.


----------



## Riho (Feb 13, 2013)

Furry Anarchy said:


> Errrrrm i'm only 16 but i've never mentioned anything to do with sex or yiffing. Also i don't really like the large percentage that do. But as other people have said Fur affinity is not focused on yiffing and sex, actually iv'e found it rather fun to be in this forum just because people are nice and friendly.



I, as a rule, try to use the word "yiff" once a day.
But it's a joke, I'm not trying to get free yiffs.
If I wanted that, I could go over to SoFurry.


----------



## Toshabi (Feb 13, 2013)

Furry Anarchy said:


> Errrrrm i'm only 16 but i've never mentioned anything to do with sex or yiffing. Also i don't really like the large percentage that do. But as other people have said Fur affinity is not focused on yiffing and sex, actually iv'e found it rather fun to be in this forum just because people are nice and friendly.



Says the wolf.


----------



## Symlus (Feb 13, 2013)

Bona fide virgin here. Mostly because I'm 16, but... whatever.


----------



## Riho (Feb 13, 2013)

Lev1athan said:


> Bona fide virgin here. Mostly because I'm 16, but... whatever.


Fifteen here.
Never been kissed.
FCN will probably change that.


----------



## Cairn (Feb 13, 2013)

Lev1athan said:


> Bona fide virgin here. Mostly because I'm 16, but... whatever.


Same here, but mostly because I am shy.


----------



## Toshabi (Feb 13, 2013)

Riho said:


> Fifteen here.
> Never been kissed.
> FCN will probably change that.



Along with giving you your STD collection starter pack.


----------



## Ricky (Feb 13, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> Along with giving you your STD collection starter pack.



Just make sure to wear a condom, or by the time you leave your dick will look like a pizza with everything on it :V


----------



## Troj (Feb 13, 2013)

Toshabi said:


> Along with giving you your STD collection starter pack.



OHHHHHH.....it's beginning to look a lot like syphilis/All around my nose....

EVERYBODY SING!


----------



## Ozriel (Feb 13, 2013)

Riho said:


> Fifteen here.
> Never been kissed.
> FCN will probably change that.



inb4 rape charge


----------



## Batty Krueger (Feb 13, 2013)

Yeah be careful, tons of roofies and rape and cons.  Especially FCN.


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## Ricky (Feb 13, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Yeah be careful, tons of roofies and rape and cons.  Especially FCN.



Kage would deny that, then try to get some boy drunk off Zinfandel.

I still can't believe it. Fucking ZINFANDEL >.<

He could at least have some class :roll:


----------



## Azure (Feb 13, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Yeah be careful, tons of roofies and rape and cons.  Especially FCN.


Sheeeit, free drugs is fantastic. I fairly sure I was accidentally roofied once, felt great. Sadly no rapings(at least to my knowledge, I woke up at home alone with no unexplained pains).


----------



## Ozriel (Feb 13, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Yeah be careful, tons of roofies and rape and cons.  Especially FCN.



Roofies, rape and, Furries go together like peanuts, popcorn, and caramel. A big sticky mess full of sugar. :V



Ricky said:


> Kage would deny that, then try to get some boy drunk off Zinfandel.
> 
> I still can't believe it. Fucking ZINFANDEL >.<
> 
> He could at least have some class :roll:



1. I thought you were Randy.

2. Wait...what?


----------



## Mentova (Feb 13, 2013)

Man what cons are you guys going to that has tons and tons of sex? I wanna know!


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## Ricky (Feb 13, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> 1. I thought you were Randy.



Yeah, 'cause we all look the same... RIGHT?!?! >:C



> 2. Wait...what?



I saw him trying to get some boy drunk on Zinfandel at FC at the Hilton Bar :lol:


----------



## Toshabi (Feb 13, 2013)

Mentova said:


> Man what cons are you guys going to that has tons and tons of sex? I wanna know!



You would wanna know, slut.


----------



## Ricky (Feb 13, 2013)

Why do these kinds of threads pop up so frequently?

Do these people not understand there's a natural human drive to procreate?

The question is why are so many furries gay. Everyone is obsessed with sex.


----------



## Holtzmann (Feb 13, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Why do these kinds of threads pop up so frequently?
> 
> Do these people not understand there's a natural human drive to procreate?
> 
> The question is why are so many furries gay. Everyone is obsessed with sex.


I have a feeling this video holds at least one of the keys to this strange conundrum:

[video=youtube;ENnAa7rqtBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM[/video]


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Feb 13, 2013)

Holtzmann said:


> I have a feeling this video holds at least one of the keys to this strange conundrum:
> 
> [video=youtube;ENnAa7rqtBM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM[/video]



That vid is a blast from the past.


----------



## Tiives (Feb 13, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Do these people not understand there's a natural human drive to procreate? (...) Everyone is obsessed with sex.


You're right, there's a natural human drive to procreate. But doesn't mean that we (and by we I don't mean only furries, but the humanity in general) have to act like sex is most important thing on our life, and that seems to be the thought of many people nowadays. This obsession is common between teenagers and younger adults. I know that hormones help this kind of obsession, but we aren't moved only by our hormones and irrational impulses.
Â¢2



Ricky said:


> The question is why are so many furries gay.


Now that's a good question.


----------



## Holtzmann (Feb 13, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> That vid is a blast from the past.


It's just as relevant now as it was back then.



Tiives said:


> Now that's a good question.


Easy availability of the subject matter, tolerant fandom. It's easy to join up/accept you're gay when people don't really seem to be bothered by it and there's so much of it to go around.


----------



## Symlus (Feb 13, 2013)

The ending of that video made me (slightly) sad. 

Now, onto furry homosexuality. Idk. I'm not gay. Speculation: Maybe they felt like they need something different than mainstream homosexuality? Again, I have no idea.


----------



## benignBiotic (Feb 13, 2013)

Tiives said:


> You're right, there's a natural human drive to procreate. But doesn't mean that we (and by we I don't mean only furries, but the humanity in general) have to act like sex is most important thing on our life, and that seems to be the thought of many people nowadays. This obsession is common between teenagers and younger adults. I know that hormones help this kind of obsession, but we aren't moved only by our hormones and irrational impulses.
> Â¢2


I'm dwelling on this. I wonder when the furry fandom became infamous for its sexual side and was it as sexual before that time? 

These days I feel like a huge number of new furries wander in with perversions, find people like themselves, and just celebrate furry sex. Due to the public image of the fandom maybe they think the whole fandom is super-sexual because they are young and naive?


----------



## Furry Anarchy (Feb 13, 2013)

Riho said:


> Fifteen here.
> Never been kissed.
> FCN will probably change that.



I'm 16 been kissed once by a psycho girl and regretted it ever since


----------



## Saybin~Iacere (Feb 13, 2013)

Just avoid it I guess?


----------



## Ricky (Feb 13, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> I'm dwelling on this. I wonder when the furry fandom became infamous for its sexual side and was it as sexual before that time?



Yes. I remember back from at least 1995 there was a ton of furry porn, though it was mostly on newsgroups back in those days.

The CSI episode is what I think made it blow up, but it also got a lot of people to join. Sex sells.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Feb 13, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Kage would deny that, then try to get some boy drunk off Zinfandel.
> 
> I still can't believe it. Fucking ZINFANDEL >.<
> 
> He could at least have some class :roll:



Kage?class? I don't know if those can mix.

Though I have had some good red Zins.
I prefer petite pinot noir myself.


----------



## Golden (Feb 13, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> I'm dwelling on this. I wonder when the furry fandom became infamous for its sexual side and was it as sexual before that time?   These days I feel like a huge number of new furries wander in with perversions, find people like themselves, and just celebrate furry sex. Due to the public image of the fandom maybe they think the whole fandom is super-sexual because they are young and naive?


  I'm pretty sure that there was a Vanity Fair column from the 1990s on furries. To my knowledge, this is when furries were first exposed to the mainstream.


----------



## Batty Krueger (Feb 13, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Yeah, 'cause we all look the same... RIGHT?!?! >:C
> 
> 
> 
> I saw him trying to get some boy drunk on Zinfandel at FC at the Hilton Bar :lol:


Hahaha I remember you texting me that, I was like "I need to get down there!"


----------



## Digitalpotato (Feb 14, 2013)

Looking for furs who aren't hypersexual?

Hello. My name's Digitalpotato. Pleased to meet you.


----------



## Troj (Feb 14, 2013)

^^^^Hello, fellow Coloradoan *Digitalpotato!*

Ok, since this is the Sexy-SexChat, I have a question that's been bugging me for a while.

So, a fetish is usually thought of as a stimulus linked to sexual arousal, yes? It's something that gets you off.

Ergo, fetishes and actual sex _should_ ideally go together like peanut butter and chocolate, or chicken and waffles.

But, I've come across stories and art that featured fetishy-things, or sometimes, things I at least _assumed_ were fetishy, that have been utterly devoid of _actual_ sex (including masturbation and the like). Stories in particular. 

So, does this mean that there are whole swathes of people who get off on a fetish itself, and don't actually need to bring honest-to-goodness sex into it? 

Because that just seems like a waste of a good fetish to me. It's like peanut butter, without the chocolate, or Nicki Minaj, without drugs. 

Or am I confused? Enlighten me, thread!


----------



## benignBiotic (Feb 14, 2013)

Troj said:


> But, I've come across stories and art that featured fetishy-things, or sometimes, things I at least _assumed_ were fetishy, that have been utterly devoid of _actual_ sex (including masturbation and the like). Stories in particular.
> 
> So, does this mean that there are whole swathes of people who get off on a fetish itself, and don't actually need to bring honest-to-goodness sex into it?


Yes there are immense swaths of people who get off on the fetish itself. Genitalia isn't even a requirement. Not that I know anything about that stuff of course. <.<  That is pretty bizarre now that you mention it though.


----------



## Toshabi (Feb 14, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> Not that I know anything about that stuff of course. <.<




 âŠ™Ï‰âŠ™


----------



## Fallowfox (Feb 14, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> I'm dwelling on this. I wonder when the furry fandom became infamous for its sexual side and was it as sexual before that time?
> 
> These days I feel like a huge number of new furries wander in with perversions, find people like themselves, and just celebrate furry sex. Due to the public image of the fandom maybe they think the whole fandom is super-sexual because they are young and naive?



This describes my own arrival pretty succinctly. I thought exactly this when I arrived and then discovered it was sort of not the case.



Lev1athan said:


> The ending of that video made me (slightly) sad.
> 
> Now, onto furry homosexuality. Idk. I'm not gay. Speculation: Maybe they  felt like they need something different than mainstream homosexuality?  Again, I have no idea.



[Insert numerous hypotheses here] 

On this topic though a large number of new furries are teenagers, and not to stereotype us but as much as there's a mainstream for evading the mainstream I think that mechanism is a tad too complex. I certainly didn't think this through, I didn't even know furrydom hosted a diverse range of orientation. 

From the anecdotes posted on the forum many gay/bi/pan/etc furries end up discovering this after they become involved, rather than choosing to become involved _because_ they're gay/bi/pan/etc.



Troj said:


> ^^^^Hello, fellow Coloradoan *Digitalpotato!*
> 
> Ok, since this is the Sexy-SexChat, I have a question that's been bugging me for a while.
> 
> ...



_Actual_ sex is an impractical, ugly and messy reality that is unnecessary to a fetishistic fantasy. 

I consider this to be like courtship behaviour, such as the impressive dances birds perform to woo their mates. Whether they perform a similar biological function- if any- is curious to me. 
I've previously voiced the hypothesis that obscure and specific courting behaviour increases the long-range spread of genes. If you have to find the next person who's into 'tickle my tummy-call me fido' then they're likely a much greater distance away than the nearest person who's willing to have sex with you, so genes get spread over vaster ranges, improving the population's genetic resillience.


----------



## Jijix (Feb 14, 2013)

Pretty sure being furry just means you like talking cartoon animals and made one to represent yourself online. Pretty sure it doesn't go any deeper than that... To be very honest, the people who say it does go a lot deeper kind of frighten me. We're not some forgotten ancient race or a secret unspoken orientation. We like cartoon animals. Where that goes is pretty much up to the public at large -- and in case you've not noticed, the public at large really wants to get laid.


----------



## Tyrbis (Feb 14, 2013)

Ok. Why furries are gay and sexual? 

I have to warn you. English is not my native language and I'm horrible at writing down my thoughts. 

I always thought that certain things in human characters and personalities come together but they are not inseparable. You can be gay and don't like furries as well as you can like furries and be straight. 

Just by being human you have your own personal set of features that you find attractive. Lets call it "feature set". Those features might be very visible and easy to point out like cuteness or big size or hidden so deeply in our subconsciousness that we aren't even aware of them like certain combinations of colors. That's why one person likes dupstep and other person likes rock. An object must have some certain number of features that are in your feature set. For example 3. Your feature set is: cute, big, red, fluffy. If something is cute and big you won't like it but if its cute, big AND red or cute, big AND fluffy you will love it.

To make it easier to explain we will have to simplify some things (a lot!).

Let's take 26 random features. Let's also assume that those are features we are not aware of. Consequently we can't give any examples. I'll assign any of those features to the letters of alphabet. 

So we have features:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z                               (I hope I didn't mess up the order) 
I wrote them down because it's easier for me and some people to think with images.

Now in heterosexual person's feature set you could find features A-H.
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
|_____________|
**Heterosexual

In homosexual person's feature set you could find features O-V.
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
************************************|_______________|********
****************************************Homosexual************

Hypersexual person's feature set covers features F-K and W-Z.
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
**************|________| ***************************|_______|
**************Hypersexual------------------------------Hypersexual

Now let's take a typical anthropomorphic creature. He doesn't have feature set because is not a living person but has features that describe it. If those features were adjectives you could say that "Anthropomorph is T (ex. cute)" or "Anthropomorph is G (ex. fuzzy)".
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
*****************|_________________________|************
****************Anthropomorphic creature*******************

Now I'll put all sets on one "diagram".
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
|_Heterosexual_|*****************|__Homosexual___|
**************|_Hyper__|****************************|_sexual_|
****************|__Anthropomorphic creature__|*************

As you can see:
- 2 of anthropomorphic creatures features are found in homosexual person's feature set
- 7 of them are found in homosexual person's feature set
- 5 of them are found in hypersexual person's feature set

It means that:
-If you are heterosexual, there's 25% chance that you will be a furry
-If you are homosexual, there's 77% chance that you will be a furry
-If you are hypersexual, there's 45% chance that you will be a furry (assuming you are not homo or hetero which doesn't make sense)
-If you are homo- and hyper- sexual, there's 72% chance that you will be a furry 
(Assuming that liking anthropomorphs meas that you are a furry)

How do I count that? It's simple. I divided number of features that anthropomorph has and that are in feature set of certain group by overall number of features in this group's set. For homosexual it 7 divided by 9. 

Those sets are absolutely random and might have nothing to do with real life situation. Again they are unique for each person. Just because you are heterosexual doesn't mean that your feature set is A-H. It could be A-C, F, H or E-J or even C-F, W-V. Let's say that those sets are average sets. It means that some features are more likely to be found in this group's feature set than others.

I left features L-N not assigned to any set. Those could be personal (unique) features liked by someone regardless of their sexual orientation. 

Now examples.
My feature set is: L-M, Q-U, V-Y. 
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
***************************|__|**********|_______|******|___| ME
*****************|__Anthropomorphic creature__|
It means that I'm a furry because anthropomorphic creature has features L-M and Q-U. Features V-Y are irrelevant. Those make me like pizza. 

Troj's feature set could be: F-H, M-O.
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U W V X Y Z
**************|___| **********|___| Troj
****************|__Anthropomorphic creature__|
He's a furry because anthropomorph has features G-H and M-O. Feature F makes him like AC/DC (Just an assumption, lol).

Non-furry person's set would be outside of anthropomorphs feature spectrum. 

Feature sets have impact on many our decisions. I like furries (or fursuits to be exact) because they are cute, fluffy, big, cartoonish, colorful, funny. I also own a husky dog. Why? Because he's fluffy, big and incredibly cuuute. Do you see any similarities here? 

Also that explains why foxes are sluts. My fursona is a snow leopard but I like foxes and I'm quite slutty. Evidently my feature set is quite big.

Please keep in mind that:
-it is only my own opinion
-everything here is hypothetical
-this theory is based on my observations that had actually nothing to do with furries. 
-I am an engineer. Not a psychiatrist.

I hope that you got the idea. Again my English is poor. If you found any errors or you have any ideas how to make this text easier to understand PLEASE let me know. I'm not sure if I'm using term "feature" correctly. Actually I'm not sure of anything here. Probably everything is a bullshit and I shouldn't be thinking anymore.

I wonder how many times I will have to edit this thing...


----------



## Tiives (Feb 14, 2013)

Tyrbis said:


> _(excellent theory)_


So, in short, it's because anthropomorphic creatures have a set of qualities that make them interesting to many kinds of people, specially to those who are homosexual, correct?
 Makes a lot of sense. I think it's not very interesting for us to look for some sort of pattern regarding what one finds attractive, because they're completely subjective. As an example, I have met furs who prefer "skin-like" fur on art and furs who prefer "fur-like" fur (I know it's redundant; poetic license, please). It's a neverending battle.

 We can, however, look for which qualities are universally liked. Say, even if each person have the concept of cuteness is unique, cuteness is something that everyone appreciates. Ergo, if Average Joe finds some picture cute and that picture happens to involve a anthropomorphic animal, Average Joe might want to find more pictures like that. Thus, a furry is born. 3 months later, Average Joe became a basement dweller, and he can't leave his basement because he got too fat to get past through the door. _:V V:_

For sexuality, replace the word "cute" on the above paragraph with "sexy". The idea stands.


----------



## Tyrbis (Feb 14, 2013)

Tiives said:


> So, in short, it's because anthropomorphic creatures have a set of qualities that make them interesting to many kinds of people, specially to those who are homosexual, correct?


Basically. Yes.


----------



## Kazooie (Feb 15, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> _Actual_ sex is an impractical, ugly and messy reality that is unnecessary to a fetishistic fantasy.


There are so many _limbs _involved. I never appreciated the sheer volume of limbs until recently in my life.


----------



## Ryuu (Feb 15, 2013)

That chart just blew my mind man! WOW! 

To be a troll here: 

"Cause Yiff"


----------



## Outcast (Feb 15, 2013)

The world is so much clearer now...

Every person who meets this criteria now officially has a restraining order against me.


----------



## Aubreys_Anthro_Ego (Mar 16, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/


And* I *wish there was _more _yiffing and sex and less friends and fun.  Lol 

If that's what having a fursona is about, then of coarse there are going to be more sexual fursonas! Having more sex _is _better to a lot of people. Especially teens, you know, the demographic that cartoon anthros probably appeal to the most or second most.

But furs probably aren't more or less sexual than the next person. It's just that since this is a fandom that involves giant get-togethers and art(especially art,) their love of sex is going to be expressed more. Just look at the anime fandom. That's _a lot_ of -and I'm using the first two in the "porn without plot" sense - yaoi, yuri, bondage, and - oddly enough - rape-fetishists. Not that furries that don't mind sexual things are just giant pervs; Some people just don't see the big deal. Sex is cool, they can mention it, make jokes about it, flirt, see people's fetish porn show up in random search results, whatever, and they won't think it's all that big of a deal. No big thang but a chicken wang, ya know?

_"bisexual"_? Why's that in quotes? XD

Also, being gay's pretty normal. It's being open about it that's new to us. There might be just as many gay people in another fandom, but people might just feel that they can be more open about it in this fandom, which is fucking awesome. Really, let's not screw that up. It's a sad day when you can't live a better, queer life through your fursona.

One more thing: If you don't want to wear the pink carnation, that's on you. If other people wanna rock their carnations of smexy freedom, it's doesn't mean everyone else has a problem.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

Let's have an orgy


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## Kio Maru (Mar 16, 2013)

Because people are sexual creatures, right? It makes sense to me.
But sexuality is in no way my top priority and I too can get annoyed by the excess of sexuality but I am complacent to my dislike towards it, I rather spend my time enjoying what I do than hating on what others seem to like more than me. If I was a sex crazed maniac I'd be on a far more adult site right now, just saying.

Sexuality is just a part of life, it's there and it's not leaving, so it's best just accept it if not embrace it.



Ahkmill said:


> Let's have an orgy



O murr


----------



## Apollyon13 (Mar 16, 2013)

I have sex with my girlfriend pretty much every other day, but I'm bi. All my itches can't be scratched by her(I'm scratching hers more then she is scratching mine.) SO I release all this pent up sexual frustration from lack of cock in the form of posts online. 

As someone said before I think its just talk about sex is more of a taboo irl. Furries seem more open to things, so we feel like we can talk about it in the community. I'm sure that the openness is why there are so many gay/bi ppl here too.

For the record tho, I wasn't(or didn't realize) I was Bi till I realized I was a furry.(Fking 4chan)


----------



## Traven V (Mar 16, 2013)

sexuality? think of your fams.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

*No. -Corto*


----------



## Ryuu (Mar 16, 2013)

Oy


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦...- *" \ - "::*'\
> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ž-^*'' : : â€ž'' : : : :: *â€ž
> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..â€ž-* : : :â€žâ€ž--/ : : : : : : : '\
> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦./ : : â€ž-* . .| : : : : : : : : '|
> ...



Seen bigger.


----------



## Ricky (Mar 16, 2013)

Let's see... People dress like animals and pretend they are animals with animal-like qualities. I don't see how it's that difficult to put 2+2 together and understand how sex fits into the equation EVEN IGNORING the massive amounts of porn.

Personally, I don't mind overt acts of sexual liberty but if you are going to do that shit around me please have the common decency to be somewhat attractive. it's never the hot ones who do any of the weird shit. I guess all the attractive people have too much self-respect. It's the same reason you don't see attractive nudists very often.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

I suppose it depends on your personal standards on what contributes attractive.

There are plenty of people who think that 300-400 pound people are the sexiest things alive.


----------



## Dokid (Mar 16, 2013)

Well this thread has shown me who to avoid haha.

Anyways in all seriousness this thread is just a mess now.


----------



## Ricky (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> I suppose it depends on your personal standards on what contributes attractive.
> 
> There are plenty of people who think that 300-400 pound people are the sexiest things alive.



There is a general consensus.

(which says that's FUCK wrong by the way)


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

For me, sexual preference is something that's 100% your choice. But yeah, if said things may be quite troublesome for other people, it should be kept to yourself.

I don't want to see anybody pooping on anybody.

I wish you could block various fetishes on FA. >_<


----------



## Dokid (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> For me, sexual preference is something that's 100% your choice. But yeah, if said things may be quite troublesome for other people, it should be kept to yourself.
> 
> I don't want to see anybody pooping on anybody.
> 
> I wish you could block various fetishes on FA. >_<



You can always turn SFW on.


----------



## Zaraphayx (Mar 16, 2013)

Dokid said:


> You can always turn SFW on.



That would remove all the cawks though.

And Ahkmill loves those.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

Zara's pretty spot on with that one. 

Dicks are pretty awesome.


----------



## Ricky (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> I don't want to see anybody pooping on anybody.
> 
> I wish you could block various fetishes on FA. >_<



You can on Inkbunny =P

I had scat as my only blocked keyword for a while, until I realized all the hilarious shit I was missing. (...hilarious shit!)


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

Ricky said:


> You can on Inkbunny =P
> 
> I had scat as my only blocked keyword for a while, until I realized all the hilarious shit I was missing. (...hilarious shit!)


I tend to avoid Inkbunny like the plague.

%80 of what's uploaded there is cub. Ewwwww....


----------



## Zaraphayx (Mar 16, 2013)

Ricky said:


> You can on Inkbunny =P
> 
> I had scat as my only blocked keyword for a while, until I realized all the hilarious shit I was missing. (...hilarious shit!)



hohohohoh


----------



## Ricky (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> I tend to avoid Inkbunny like the plague.
> 
> %80 of what's uploaded there is cub. Ewwwww....



Yeah because all the cub artists flocked there after the FA ban XD

I like rule 34 stuff and for some reason there is A LOT of rule 34 stuff on that site.

Well, I like some cub stuff too. I gotta admit =P


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

I have my own sick fetishes, but I do try to keep that shit private. :U


----------



## Ricky (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> I have my own sick fetishes, but I do try to keep that shit private. :U



I don't get on furry sites to jack off to porn anymore.

I have TRANSCENDED all of that.

I have no fetishes. Only a really fucked-up sense of humor :V


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

Jacking off is fun.


----------



## Ricky (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> Jacking off is fun.



Trust me -- the real thing is better ;3


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Trust me -- the real thing is better ;3



well duh


----------



## Car Fox (Mar 16, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦...- *" \ - "::*'\
> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€ž-^*'' : : â€ž'' : : : :: *â€ž
> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..â€ž-* : : :â€žâ€ž--/ : : : : : : : '\
> â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦./ : : â€ž-* . .| : : : : : : : : '|
> ...



Why did you have to post this? This brings back disturbing memories.

To the board question, no, not everything has to be sexual. Hence why we have a "Safe For Work" option in the main page. Also, the large majority of the people on this forum aren't sexually active "sex-furs", a lot of these people having the opinion that it's just some innocent passtime that's an alternative to baseball.

But for those who are "sex-furs" and believe that being furry is a little more than a passtime or hobby, you can't blame them for such things: it's just as normal as anything else in the fandom, or anywhere else.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 16, 2013)

HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Zaraphayx (Mar 16, 2013)

^ what he said.


----------



## Golden (Mar 17, 2013)

Ricky said:


> I don't get on furry sites to jack off to porn anymore.  I have TRANSCENDED all of that.  I have no fetishes. Only a really fucked-up sense of humor :V


  God damn it why did I click on that link. Does anyone have any eye bleach?


----------



## Ricky (Mar 17, 2013)

RaichuOPs said:


> God damn it why did I click on that link. Does anyone have any eye bleach?



AAAAAAHAHAHAHAA

I hoped someone would (who is over 18, otherwise it would be blocked)


----------



## Azure (Mar 17, 2013)

oh look more penises


----------



## Car Fox (Mar 17, 2013)

Ricky said:


> AAAAAAHAHAHAHAA
> 
> I hoped someone would (who is over 18, otherwise it would be blocked)



Thankful for that. I knew once it said "Inkbunny", that I was about to see some shit. Thank god for filters of all sorts.


----------



## Aubreys_Anthro_Ego (Mar 17, 2013)

Ricky said:


> I hoped someone would (who is over 18, otherwise it would be blocked)


I must be missing some serious context here. All I see is a little antrho kid playing pillow forts. What's so bad about-

What the fuck is in your favorites?


----------



## Ricky (Mar 17, 2013)

Azure said:


> oh look more penises



Penises make the world go round. :V



Aubreys_Anthro_Ego said:


> I must be missing some serious context  here. All I see is a little antrho kid playing pillow forts. What's so  bad about-
> 
> What the fuck is in your favorites?



THAT'S ALL YOU GET TO SEE

Adults only, please...


----------



## Azure (Mar 17, 2013)

grown folks only


----------



## Namba (Mar 17, 2013)

Azure said:


> grown folks only



Pink Floyd boxers...


----------



## Apollyon13 (Mar 17, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Personally, I don't mind overt acts of sexual liberty but if you are going to do that shit around me please have the common decency to be somewhat attractive. it's never the hot ones who do any of the weird shit. I guess all the attractive people have too much self-respect. It's the same reason you don't see attractive nudists very often.



Guess I have no self-respect at all.


----------



## Azure (Mar 17, 2013)

Eyal Flurry said:


> Pink Floyd boxers...


wish i could find a pair like that, they are badass


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 17, 2013)

Ricky said:


> I don't get on furry sites to jack off to porn anymore.
> 
> I have TRANSCENDED all of that.
> 
> I have no fetishes. Only a really fucked-up sense of humor :V



Seriously though, I don't get it. What's so sexual about an anthro kid playing pillow fort? I know I'm missing something so please fill me in.

Also... Dat Penis!!! ^_^


----------



## Ricky (Mar 17, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Seriously though, I don't get it. What's so sexual about an anthro kid playing pillow fort?



You are missing the 98% of commissions I have on there because they are marked as 'Adults Only' =P


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 17, 2013)

Why do dragons fuck cars?


----------



## Apollyon13 (Mar 17, 2013)

Ricky said:


> THAT'S ALL YOU GET TO SEE
> 
> Adults only, please...



ROCKO NO! *sob sob*
MY poor poor childhood..


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 17, 2013)

Apollyon13 said:


> ROCKO NO! *sob sob*
> MY poor poor childhood..



I've seen worse.


----------



## Kalmor (Mar 17, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> Why do dragons fuck cars?


Now _that_ is a mystery....


----------



## RegencyBroughamDeluxe (Mar 17, 2013)

Part of the reason I started to look into the fandom more is because I was curious about how deeply the sex thing is embedded in furry culture. I don't have a real answer for that yet, but certainly it seems like it can be as sexual as you want it to be. Most of the suiters I have interviewed have downplayed the sexual aspect, and I believe them (mostly). But you really can't deny that the erotic aspect always seems to be just below the surface. In that sense, though, what internet-based subculture DOESN'T have an erotic subtext? Anime certainly does; so do Western comics, videogames, etc.


----------



## Kalmor (Mar 17, 2013)

RegencyBroughamDeluxe said:


> Part of the reason I started to look into the fandom more is because I was curious about how deeply the sex thing is embedded in furry culture. I don't have a real answer for that yet, but certainly it seems like it can be as sexual as you want it to be. Most of the suiters I have interviewed have downplayed the sexual aspect, and I believe them (mostly). But you really can't deny that the erotic aspect always seems to be just below the surface. In that sense, though, what internet-based subculture DOESN'T have an erotic subtext? Anime certainly does; so do Western comics, videogames, etc.


You have to be careful if you draw your conculsions from these forums, as we sometimes act the furry stereotype just to make fun of it.


----------



## Car Fox (Mar 17, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> Why do dragons fuck cars?



Wait, they do that?! I'm in the wrong profession!!!


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 17, 2013)

Raptros said:


> You have to be careful if you draw your conculsions from these forums, as we sometimes act the furry stereotype just to make fun of it.



I speak the complete truth about myself, tag an ':V' at the end of it and am then immune to any criticism, because if people dislike what I have to say I can retract the comment as wry sarcasm. :V


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 18, 2013)

Ricky said:


> You are missing the 98% of commissions I have on there because they are marked as 'Adults Only' =P



So... how do I fix that? Because you have me genuinely curious now


----------



## Car Fox (Mar 18, 2013)

As if he would for a young teenager.


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 18, 2013)

Torsion Beam said:


> As if he would for a young teenager.



Oi, it's my business what I like to do, I have a right to look at naughty pictures on the internet.


----------



## Car Fox (Mar 18, 2013)

):I


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 18, 2013)

Torsion Beam said:


> ):I



Sorry, forgot to put the :3 of sillyness


----------



## Aubreys_Anthro_Ego (Mar 18, 2013)

Ricky said:


> You are missing the 98% of commissions I have on there because they are marked as 'Adults Only' =P


Lmfao! And I thought_ I _was depraved. Totally worth making an account there. Oh god, I can't stop laughing!


----------



## Ricky (Mar 18, 2013)

Aubreys_Anthro_Ego said:


> Lmfao! And I thought_ I _was depraved. Totally worth making an account there. Oh god, I can't stop laughing!



Awesome! ^_^

Yes, the site is amusing. VERY amusing, at that.


----------



## RegencyBroughamDeluxe (Mar 18, 2013)

I think I can sort out the sarcasm, but I see your point.


----------



## TheGr8MC (Mar 18, 2013)

Sex is everywhere!  I can't even watch a damn commercial without seeing some oversexualized models promoting hair gel or cereal.  And the internet is where all the bad parts of human nature fester and conglomerate (hope I used that word correctly).  I can see why some would be concerned about the apparent sex obsession seeing as how turning off the mature filter on Fur Affinity floods almost every page with porn.  But as much as the evidence tries to say otherwise, we are not all sex crazed maniacs.  Maybe only 25-30%......ok, 40%.


----------



## Max Dags (Mar 19, 2013)

Wow, considering this really makes me think back to when I first discovered that i was a furry. I guess it wasn't the sexual part of it that got me into the community. 
But I'm not going to be a hypocrite; I have seen my share of 'that young yiff swag, son'
At this point as a 17 year old, my mind isnt thinking nearly as much about how much T n A i see on the internet, but it startles me to see how many people in this community only care about the sex.

Still, I accept it as a component of the community, and that is all.


----------



## Ricky (Mar 19, 2013)

It could be worse. That cop from New York was on a bunch of RP sites where people fantasized about cooking and eating women. Low and behold, he was eventually caught trying to cook and eat women.

C'est la vie :roll:


----------



## Llamapotamus (Mar 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> It could be worse. That cop from New York was on a bunch of RP sites where people fantasized about cooking and eating women. Low and behold, he was eventually caught trying to cook and eat women.
> 
> C'est la vie :roll:



You mean fantasize in a sexual manner? Does not compute...


----------



## Ricky (Mar 19, 2013)

Llamapotamus said:


> You mean fantasize in a sexual manner? Does not compute...



Yeah, it was all over the news. Here is a link. ^^


----------



## Aubreys_Anthro_Ego (Mar 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Yeah, it was all over the news. Here is a link. ^^


Lol his wife got the fuck up _outta _there. Seriously, let's have a moment of appreciation for her self-preservation.

On point, I'm honestly not surprised by this at all. Disturbed but not surprised. There's tons of porn out there showing women and bottom guys that look like they're in pain or that feature them even dying. (Women usually get that last one though.) It could easily be 40% of english visual porn. Yeah, we might have a problem here. How do I know? Well, it's kinda hard to avoid when you're looking for porn art to see what the competition is like. 

Hmm, anyone else get the feeling that we've gone off topic? Oh right, the topic, ummm... yeah furrydom can get sexual but sexual stuff is fine. If you're worried about attracting oddballs that think that's all what a furry is being about then... Well, if it's any comfort, it's not what_* I*_ thought being furry was all about even before I joined up. The sexual thing was news to me. Besides, it looks like the really bordeline-harmful stuff stays on DA. Anybody else remember that guy who got off on drawing pictures of little girls getting brutally murdered?

For anyone interested about the case Woody Ricky mentioned, here's what NY Daily has on how the trial went. He was found guilty but it was basically a toss up between Cannibal Cop planning on attacking a few select women and him _thoroughly _researching for his roleplaying while being a total creep show on the side. Remember kids, keep it safe, sane, and consensual. ^-^


----------



## Car Fox (Mar 19, 2013)

I, once again, am lost... these boards get off-topic quickly.


----------



## PsychicOtter (Mar 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> It could be worse. That cop from New York was on a bunch of RP sites where people fantasized about cooking and eating women. Low and behold, he was eventually caught trying to cook and eat women.
> 
> C'est la vie :roll:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Is that real?!??  There are people in this world who make even furries look normal.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 20, 2013)

PsychicOtter said:


> Is that real?!??  There are people in this world who make even furries look normal.



A German man killed and ate a volunteer he found online. This man came from the town of 'Essen', which is coincidental because that means 'to Eat' in German. 

He estimates there are 100 actual cannibals in Germany.


----------



## PsychicOtter (Mar 20, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> A German man killed and ate a volunteer he found online. This man came from the town of 'Essen', which is coincidental because that means 'to Eat' in German.
> 
> He estimates there are 100 actual cannibals in Germany.


By volunteer, do you mean someone volunteered to be cooked and eaten?


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 20, 2013)

PsychicOtter said:


> By volunteer, do you mean someone volunteered to be cooked and eaten?



Yes. Initially the case was ended as a manslaughter because it was done consensually. Later they decided that due to consumption of alcohol as a pain reliever and loss of blood from a voluntary penectomy that the deceased was not capable of making a rational decision whether they wanted to change their mind at the last moment.


----------



## PsychicOtter (Mar 20, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Yes. Initially the case was ended as a manslaughter because it was done consensually. Later they decided that due to consumption of alcohol as a pain reliever and loss of blood from a voluntary penectomy that the deceased was not capable of making a rational decision whether they wanted to change their mind at the last moment.


So he was charged with murder?  That's a tough call between manslaughter and murder in that scenario, but I guess they made the right choice.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 20, 2013)

Raptros said:


> Now _that_ is a mystery....



Because they both shoot flames out their exhaust?


----------



## Distorted (Mar 20, 2013)

It's within human nature to be sexual. Although there is much exposure of sexual media in the fandom, it does not speak for the entirety of it's participants. In fact, it could be used to look into the psyches of many stra....er, unique minds that have chosen to manifest their fantasies and desires in a sexual context. It does not help that this fandom shows little to no discretion in what it accepts also. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it leaves a very large target on furries to be well.........fursecuted (I went there, yes). 

Also, part of the problem is indeed that you're referencing teenagers. Have you ever tried to tell a teen something? It does not work. But if you were to encounter someone in their 20's or someone even older, don't be surprised to find similar dispositions towards sexuality. 

We are human, sir. Sex is an action that all animals indulge in, and should not be ignored or removed. But a little discretion never hurt.


----------



## Kio Maru (Mar 20, 2013)

Distorted said:


> It's within human nature to be sexual. Although there is much exposure of sexual media in the fandom, it does not speak for the entirety of it's participants. In fact, it could be used to look into the psyches of many stra....er, unique minds that have chosen to manifest their fantasies and desires in a sexual context. It does not help that this fandom shows little to no discretion in what it accepts also. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it leaves a very large target on furries to be well.........fursecuted (I went there, yes).
> 
> Also, part of the problem is indeed that you're referencing teenagers. Have you ever tried to tell a teen something? It does not work. But if you were to encounter someone in their 20's or someone even older, don't be surprised to find similar dispositions towards sexuality.
> 
> We are human, sir. Sex is an action that all animals indulge in, and should not be ignored or removed. But a little discretion never hurt.



Not just animals, "bacteria" (in a sense) does, too (wait is this NSFW?).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Conjugation.svg

I'm willing to bet the hot topic of bacteria is reproduction :grin:


----------



## MicheleFancy (Mar 21, 2013)

Kio Maru said:


> Not just animals, "bacteria" (in a sense) does, too (wait is this NSFW?).
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Conjugation.svg
> 
> I'm willing to bet the hot topic of bacteria is reproduction :grin:



Actually I'm pretty sure I've seen fetish porn of bacteria reproduction in other species.

I think the problem is (not for the OP, but that may be part of the issue) people are having a problem with how in your face the sexual side of the furry fandom is.  Compared to other fandoms I'm in, which does have porn, I don't see it all that often as it's usually on sites like hentai foundry or (lol) furaffinity.  (Does y!gallery still exist?  It's probably there too.)  All the big furry art sites have filters to block out the mature content, yes, but if I switch my SFW thing off, on the main page of the site, there's a ton of porn or fetish stuff (which I guess is a grey area if it doesn't specifically have genitals showing.)

For example right now I just hit the browse link on the front page.  I found 10 out of 36 to be porn or fetish related.  That seems to be about average, sometimes there's more or less though.
I picked a random species filter and 15 out of the 36 on the first page that popped up was porn/fetish.

I mean the site allows porn, so porn is going to happen.  I have no issues with porn on my own and I think exploring sexuality is healthy.  However, the results that pop up for me on GOOGLE images, which tends to have porn pop up even on the most innocent of searches, when just searching for "furries" has a significantly smaller porn/non-porn ratio.  Though in the regular search two of the top three results involve furry being a fetish or a "taboo".  I can see why the average joe or people in the fandom itself would think it's blatantly sexual or at least get that impression based off of one of the most popular furry art sites in the fandom.

Is there even a popular art site that focuses mostly on furry art that doesn't allow porn?


----------



## Kio Maru (Mar 21, 2013)

MicheleFancy said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure I've seen fetish porn of bacteria reproduction in other species.I think the problem is (not for the OP, but that may be part of the issue) people are having a problem with how in your face the sexual side of the furry fandom is.  Compared to other fandoms I'm in, which does have porn, I don't see it all that often as it's usually on sites like hentai foundry or (lol) furaffinity.  (Does y!gallery still exist?  It's probably there too.)  All the big furry art sites have filters to block out the mature content, yes, but if I switch my SFW thing off, on the main page of the site, there's a ton of porn or fetish stuff (which I guess is a grey area if it doesn't specifically have genitals showing.)For example right now I just hit the browse link on the front page.  I found 10 out of 36 to be porn or fetish related.  That seems to be about average, sometimes there's more or less though.I picked a random species filter and 15 out of the 36 on the first page that popped up was porn/fetish.I mean the site allows porn, so porn is going to happen.  I have no issues with porn on my own and I think exploring sexuality is healthy.  However, the results that pop up for me on GOOGLE images, which tends to have porn pop up even on the most innocent of searches, when just searching for "furries" has a significantly smaller porn/non-porn ratio.  Though in the regular search two of the top three results involve furry being a fetish or a "taboo".  I can see why the average joe or people in the fandom itself would think it's blatantly sexual or at least get that impression based off of one of the most popular furry art sites in the fandom.Is there even a popular art site that focuses mostly on furry art that doesn't allow porn?


I don't think furries are that sexual in general, plenty more 12-14 year olds on DA call themselves furries and they aren't very often sexually oriented.I think I've seen more hentai than furry porn, which is often more to the japanese appeal of "rule 34" and "we must violate everything". Just like anime/manga fans are otakus, anthro/cartoon animals fans are furries; anime/manga is everywhere anyway, so are cartoon/anthro animals. But when you become an otaku/furry you become more of an obsessor of those subjects and ultimately you go to extremes, that can be being totally nerdy, worshipping the art, thinking magically/spiritually about it and of course, sex. Tbh, I've yet to meet someone who hasn't liked cartoon/anthro animals at at least one point in their life, it's cultural, it's in the toons and ultimately in the comics/net, which is where people start going from softcore to hardcore furries. Although most don't use the term, furry can be used to colloquially account for many people who don't even know of the word, just like those bordering on being otaku fans and trekkies don't very often label themselves as such, they're like "yeah I like this, but doesn't everyone, I don't obsess over it but I like it a lot". How much a furry fan is a furry fan is subjective, many people are furry fannish but it takes themselves to identify themselves as such to become "furries".One thing about the mass amounts of fetish porn is because many don't put much effort into it, those who make clean art tend to bring out more aesthetic/creative qualities and this takes more time to produce. At a guess there's only 5% adult art, though the 95% of clean art also includes a lot of unfinished sketches/studies/busts. I think I saw somewhere on the forums only about 10% of the art on FA was adult and 15% mature.You have to note the majority of furry fans do not make art, however, and their presence is very unheard of. I don't make art (yet), for example. You can take a random tour of FA and see how many seemingly unused accounts there are, those are most likely people reserving their place in case they want to favorite something and if they like it they become watchers and are the main business for the artists who allow you to commission them.But a lot of the clean furry art community is on DA, but there the term is often avoid in fears of bad stereotypes (because they can escape it there). Sometimes non-sexual furs resort to making porn because they know people like it in the bucketful, it makes them money and it gives them success, yet their watchers can be low in count but with a lot of demand onto their own.I think many people, thanks to bad mainstream attention, associate furry and ponyplay, these are not the same thing, and I have to agree there are many furries who treat it as a largely visual expansion to ponyplay. The fandom is also very accepting because the topic is very non-aggressive, so there is a large LGBT prominence, and once others saw the LGBT prominence, LGBT fetishes have become very popular, even controversial fetishists such as zoophiles and pedophiles have made their presence which doesn't help."Is there even a popular art site that focuses mostly on furry art that doesn't allow porn?"There used to be yerf, and weasyl considers to be less adult oriented if I recall, though yerf/artspots died through lack of funding if I remember, though I think Tracy J Butler made their furry debut there, now they have a clean popular comic called Lackadaisy.But overall I'd say there's nothing wrong with the sex in the fandom (after all sex is just another form of entertainment) but people shouldn't associate it with sex because the concept is "not" about sex.


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 21, 2013)

Ricky said:


> You are missing the 98% of commissions I have on there because they are marked as 'Adults Only' =P



I just made an account on Inkbunny... 95% of the stuff in your favs  are just innocent cartoons, I must be missing something here...



Ahkmill said:


> Why do dragons fuck cars?





Fallowfox said:


> Because they both shoot flames out their exhaust?



Precisely :V



Distorted said:


> It does not help that this fandom shows little to no discretion in what it accepts also.



I  sincerely hope you're talking about the extremes such as rape,  cannibal, and murder fetishes, which are obviously morally wrong.  Considering how discrimination is such a huge issue and is also morally  wrong, It definitely does help that the fandom is accepting of a wide  variety of differences in people.



Kio Maru said:


> Not just animals, "bacteria" (in a sense) does, too (wait is this NSFW?).
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onjugation.svg
> 
> I'm willing to bet the hot topic of bacteria is reproduction :grin:



That pic is so sexy :3


----------



## Ricky (Mar 22, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> I just made an account on Inkbunny... 95% of the stuff in your favs  are just innocent cartoons, I must be missing something here...



Did you miss the giant cub rape picture that's featured in my gallery? :V

It's all in good fun ;3


----------



## Zaraphayx (Mar 22, 2013)

Wait is OP the same guy who was in that really creepy "comedy" film called _Furry_.

Because if so I can totally understand the autist level aversion to sexual expression.


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 22, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Did you miss the giant cub rape picture that's featured in my gallery? :V
> 
> It's all in good fun ;3



I have to seriously be missing something here, because according to you 98% of your commissions are porn... otherwise, why would they be adults only?


----------



## Lucy Bones (Mar 22, 2013)

Oh furries.

Always sticking their dicks in things they shouldn't.


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 22, 2013)

Ahkmill said:


> Oh furries.
> 
> Always sticking their dicks in things they shouldn't.



I'm just curious cuz' I don't know what the big deal is... I've only seen like 2 or 3 porn related pics in Ricky's favs and he said like 98% of his favs are for adults only or whatever...


----------



## bkatt500 (Mar 22, 2013)

It's the combination of the fact that humans sexualize everything and that furries as a group have a tendency to put few limits on what is/isn't okay in the community.


----------



## Corwin Cross (Mar 22, 2013)

Furries not being sexual. :y

But seriously, there is more to the fandom than sex and yiff. But yiff is certainly an important part of the fandom.


----------



## mojisu (Mar 24, 2013)

14-18 is when puberty happens, I guess that fact kind of slipped by you.
And what's wrong with being sexual anyway? It's a healthy and normal activity, why should people pretend like it doesn't exist?

How exactly do you define "oversexed"? What is it about society that stirs you the wrong way?
Is it that someone said that these days people demonstrate their sexuality? There's two reasons for that - one is because they CAN, meaning if they do nobody will try to cut their head off and the second reason is because there's still people that want to cut their head off for being other than straight like an arrow, meaning the more you react the more you'll have to deal with it until you finally accept it as part of modern society.

Sex is good, the more the better.


----------



## TigerBeacon (Mar 24, 2013)

I think my gripe about the whole sex thing is that its just...kind of pointless...meaningless...severely overrated, severely overdone, just for the sake of following other's examples. About 15% of furry artwork I've seen based on browsing FA have two versions- one normal version and one where people slap a weeping dick on just because. And I'm talking about those pictures that are otherwise neutral and non-suggestive in every way, which you can tell apart from pictures that were obviously set up for the latter, but was nice enough to be retouched with a clean version. It just kind of gives you an idea on the sort of braindeadness to it that irritates me, because there's only so much creativity you can do when it comes to fucking. No, please don't bring those stupid fetishes into it- that's a rant for another day.

More sexualized furries does not equal better. Its just slapping you the same thing over and over and over again like the most loathsome broken record you were ever forced to endure for years.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 24, 2013)

If creativity and sex are being brought centre stage I'm reminded of a quote from Man Ray. 

"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it."


----------



## TigerBeacon (Mar 24, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> If creativity and sex are being brought centre stage I'm reminded of a quote from Man Ray.
> 
> "There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it."



http://www.hollyturner.co.uk/Characters_files/Man%20ray%20sigh.png   ??

I think...that's kinda the gripe of what I was saying? There really isn't that many different ways of making love as far as furries are concerned. It gets to the point where its the same thing over and over again. Same thing, different fursona.


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## Ricky (Mar 24, 2013)

TigerBeacon said:


> There really isn't that many different ways of making love as far as furries are concerned.



f-list says you're wrong =P


----------



## Bluey (Mar 24, 2013)

Well furry or not after a certain age everyone goes sexual but thankfully some people like me*supreme miniority* be like "No no no sexxors till finding true love"


----------



## Ricky (Mar 24, 2013)

mojisu said:


> And what's wrong with being sexual anyway?



That depends on this little thing called "tact."

So, it's all about context. You could give a million examples of inappropriate shit.


----------



## benignBiotic (Mar 27, 2013)

Ricky said:


> That depends on this little thing called "tact."
> 
> So, it's all about context. You could give a million examples of inappropriate shit.


Right. That's a big part of the ubiquity of sex in the fandom. It's not that there's any more sex (although there might be given the gender and age demographics) but its the fact that there's no tact involved. 

Some barely pubescent furry comes along and thinks "Wow I can talk to these people about my every fetish, and some will share it!" And he goes around spouting that until he stumbles into FAF and is neatly trounced (fursecuted?!?!) for it.


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 27, 2013)

I think tact is arbitrary, because it's dependent on us presuming that talking about sex is awkward. For some people discussing sex isn't comparable to treading on egg shells and in their eyes _we_ might be the tactless people who have transformed sex into a covert obsession, rather than viewing it as just another fact of life.


----------



## TheNewBreed (Mar 27, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



I agree, there are too many people out there who are furries just for yiff. Admittedly that's actually how I found the fandom a few years back, but before that I hadn't even heard of furries. I guess that's just how people are these days though, nothing we can do about it :/


----------



## benignBiotic (Mar 27, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I think tact is arbitrary, because it's dependent on us presuming that talking about sex is awkward. For some people discussing sex isn't comparable to treading on egg shells and in their eyes _we_ might be the tactless people who have transformed sex into a covert obsession, rather than viewing it as just another fact of life.


*groan* I get that, but do you really want to bump into some new fur obnoxiously pushing his fetishes on you? There's a difference between sex as a fact of life and sex as annoying furries who won't shut up about it.


----------



## Azure (Mar 27, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> *groan* I get that, but do you really want to bump into some new fur obnoxiously pushing his fetishes on you? There's a difference between sex as a fact of life and sex as annoying furries who won't shut up about it.


when they speak about diapers and dog cocks and dildos, i speak with my fist.


----------



## Ricky (Mar 27, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I think tact is arbitrary, because it's dependent on us presuming that talking about sex is awkward. For some people discussing sex isn't comparable to treading on egg shells and in their eyes _we_ might be the tactless people who have transformed sex into a covert obsession, rather than viewing it as just another fact of life.



It isn't arbitrary. Most people are able to pick up social cues =P

Also, _I don't want to talk about sex to just anybody_.

I've had people talk incessantly about fetish stuff, even in person.

There are some things you JUST DON'T DO.

well, unless you are an aspie...


----------



## mojisu (Mar 27, 2013)

Ricky said:


> That depends on this little thing called "tact."
> 
> So, it's all about context. You could give a million examples of inappropriate shit.



Yeah but now you're going into territory of relative and context. You're bringing in boundaries that you have created yourself to limit that which created humans. I call scheite of the bull, you give me an example or two, you're being too nonspecific.


----------



## Troj (Mar 27, 2013)

I love talking about sex as a kind of _academic _topic, but I agree with Ricky that it's about having tact and considering context, especially when it comes to talking about your own or other people's _actual_ sex lives and fetishes.

I think some people make the mistake of believing that they aren't really "proud" of who they are, or aren't being "real," if they don't share their every thought, feeling, belief, and whim with everyone around them. 

I once dated a fellow who was a fan of these creepy self-help seminars which had told him, among other things, that "emotional authenticity" was about sharing and/or expressing his each and every feeling with others, as each feeling arose.

This didn't make him more "authentic" or "real;" instead, it just made him annoying and socially inappropriate.

There are times, places, and ways in which to share these and other things about oneself. When you share the wrong stuff in the wrong time, wrong place, and/or wrong way, that's how you end up skeeving others out, plain and simple.


----------



## RC-Slayer (Mar 28, 2013)

I'll say I'm new in here my first post saw this thread had a ton of replies. I didn't read them all just the last 2 pages but I will say we are free to do what we won't unless your breaking laws. Furry or not and that includes sex. It happens here where I am and it just happens. It's no big deal. Oh people have sex at Panama City Beach as well I saw a girl and dude in the sax and it was a public beach. It's this crazy American society that's all.


----------



## mojisu (Mar 28, 2013)

I'd call that progressive.
The arabs would have cut their heads off or something.

I mean how would you react when you were found with somebody in the sax


----------



## Fallowfox (Mar 28, 2013)

Ricky said:


> It isn't arbitrary. Most people are able to pick up social cues =P
> 
> Also, _I don't want to talk about sex to just anybody_.
> 
> ...



I'm not arguing that the act of social communication is entirely arbitrary, certainly this would not apply to individuals of the same social language, but I am arguing that many attitudes are.

For instance taboos on discussing sex or being nude are not universal to all cultures, they are peculiarities that happen to exist in our own culture.

Similarly it's considered tactless by native australians to talk about the dead in first name terms. We have no trouble with that.


----------



## RC-Slayer (Mar 28, 2013)

The saxophone I love that I played the alto sax in Band. I tried tenor I disliked that 1.



mojisu said:


> I'd call that progressive.
> The arabs would have cut their heads off or something.
> 
> I mean how would you react when you were found with somebody in the sax


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 30, 2013)

I love sex, sex is awesome, and I'm a virgin.


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## Car Fox (Mar 30, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> I love sex, sex is awesome, and I'm a virgin.



Don't curse yourself.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 30, 2013)

Torsion Beam said:


> Don't curse yourself.



I don't understand?


----------



## -={Dracimonde}=- (Mar 30, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't understand?



I think he's trying to tell me I should be careful or he might sig me... but maybe that's exactly what I want O_O


----------



## Symlus (Mar 30, 2013)

Blah blah sex is good blah blah blah.


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## Joey (Mar 30, 2013)

Sex and the fandom can be okay, but it seems like a lot of people mix the two together just because nobody wants to fuck them in real life. That way they can live vicariously through their purple sparkledog fursona, get all the e-peen and buttsex they want,  and still be unkempt, greasy, and fat in real life.

Not a healthy way of approaching these things if you ask me.


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## Belluavir (Mar 30, 2013)

Everything is sexual. If something exists, there's bound to be someone in the world who sexualizes it and there's probably lots of people who agree with them.


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## TheGr8MC (Mar 30, 2013)

Belluavir said:


> Everything is sexual. If something exists, there's bound to be someone in the world who sexualizes it and there's probably lots of people who agree with them.



You just defined rule 34 perfectly.  Someone get this guy a sticker!


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## redhusky17 (Apr 15, 2013)

For me, it depends my mood.


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## mapdark (Apr 18, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.




Funnily enough , being a furry for me is just doodling dogs that talk and liking to read comics that contain dogs that talk.

none of that Oprah-bettering-yourself-through-an-imaginary-being shit.


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## Summer (Apr 18, 2013)

I've always wondered if furries are actually more sexual then average people or expressing themselves more freely.


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## Sithon (Apr 18, 2013)

The only reason i'm a sexual furry at all (keeping in mind my being a furry is not yiff-centric, it is just small part) is because, like you say, it is like living a second life through your persona for some, and sex is a part of life. My fursona is more of a true representation of me, i feel, than i am in reality. In real life, i do not spent all of my waking moments trying to yiff with guys so why should i as a furry? There is more to life, and therefore more to my fursona.

Sincerely,
a 14-18 year old Homosexual (Furfag seems... IDK, a little offensive to both furries and gays.)


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## HaewooTheCat (Apr 18, 2013)

If people admit their sexual orientation, that dosen't mean they are a sexual furry, they're just proud of their sexual orientation. Just because someone has a different sexual orientation dosen't mean they're using it to be a "whore dog" or whatever you call it. Get some maturity before you accuse people of being whores just because of their sexual orientation.


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## Kalmor (Apr 18, 2013)

HaewooTheCat said:


> If people admit their sexual orientation, that dosen't mean they are a sexual furry, they're just proud of their sexual orientation. Just because someone has a different sexual orientation dosen't mean they're using it to be a "whore dog" or whatever you call it. Get some maturity before you accuse people of being whores just because of their sexual orientation.


No one is saying that just because you're openly gay/straight/bi you're using it to be a "whore". Where are you getting this idea from?


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## Rigby (Apr 18, 2013)

Sithon said:


> My fursona is more of a true representation of me, i feel, than i am in reality.



No, it's more desirable representation of you, not a more "true."


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## Cat_Nipz (Apr 18, 2013)

I personally find the sexual side of the fandom pretty weird. I mean, you have to admit there are probably some weirdos who like bestiality and use the excuse "But it's ANTHROPOMORPHIC animals" as their defense or something. I really don't get turned on by a dog with human breasts or some stuff like that lol. And A LOT of people in the fandom are very sexual, and there are of course those people who like to have sex in fursuits, and while I thought they'd be low in numbers, i've come across many on FA. 

But, if that's how people have fun, then it's none of my business.


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## Shay Feral (Apr 18, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



That's more of a teenage problem than it is furry, that same 14 year old "furfag" would have practiced the same faggotry if they weren't furry.

I doubt there are many people here willing to admit it, but I'm sure that there are many of us who have went through that phase. But I propose the question if all you can see is perversion and sex; are you _really_ trying to find anything deeper?

---

I don't see why you're having problems, I am probably amongst one of the most perverted and socially inappropriate furries; or at least many other furs make me feel that way here... And I have no problem finding other furries to socialize about other interests like cars, guns, music, politics and simply just BS with.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Sithon said:


> My fursona is more of a true representation of me, i feel, than i am in reality.



In what respect?

Can't you work on trying to be that person? Or is it specifically the fur/ears/tail?



HaewooTheCat said:


> If  people admit their sexual orientation, that dosen't mean they are a  sexual furry, they're just proud of their sexual orientation.



There are better things to be proud of than your sexual orientation.

I mean, don't lie about it, but I think the word "pride" has a very haughty connotation to be used in this context.



Cat_Nipz said:


> I  mean, you have to admit there are probably some weirdos who like  bestiality and use the excuse "But it's ANTHROPOMORPHIC animals" as  their defense or something.



Not "probably" but there are. There are probably more than you think, too.



Shay Feral said:


> I don't see why you're having problems, I am probably amongst one of the most perverted and socially inappropriate furries; *or at least many other furs make me feel that way here*... And I have no problem finding other furries to socialize about other interests like cars, guns, music, politics and simply just BS with.



It's "here" that is the issue, not you.

Given the age demographic it's probably a good thing people don't talk about it all the time.

*Most* people are sexual in nature, and *most* people have weird shit they enjoy. That's not furry-specific, at all.

It does seem like a lot of people here get defensive about it, though.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> There are better things to be proud of than your sexual orientation.
> 
> I mean, don't lie about it, but I think the word "pride" has a very haughty connotation to be used in this context.



So you're saying people shouldn't be proud of who they are? Because if people aren't proud of who they are, then what else can they be but ashamed? Being proud of who you are doesn't mean saying "I'm so great because I'm gay/straight/bi/transgendered/whatever." Being proud of who you are means loving, accepting, respecting, and embracing who you are inside and feeling free to be yourself regardless of what others may think of you or how they may judge you. People *need *to be proud of who they are,  it gives you a sense of spiritual fulfillment, it makes you feel so *ALIVE*, it allows you to enjoy life comfortably without constantly beating yourself up for being you. Being proud of who you are is a good thing, being a self-righteous prick is not.


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## Rilvor (Apr 19, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> So you're saying people shouldn't be proud of who they are? Because if people aren't proud of who they are, then what else can they be but ashamed?



I'd like to stop you here, because this is black and white thinking. You should re-think your argument.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Apr 19, 2013)

Rilvor said:


> I'd like to stop you here, because this is black and white thinking. You should re-think your argument.



You're either proud and of who you are inside or you're ashamed of it, there is no "in between."

And did you even read the rest of my post?


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## Rilvor (Apr 19, 2013)

Please read this, it will help you educate yourself.

This as well, please.


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## H.B.C (Apr 19, 2013)

THIS THREAD MAKES ME MOIST


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Apr 19, 2013)

Rilvor said:


> Please read this, it will help you educate yourself.
> 
> This as well, please.



I see your point but that distinction wasn't even the point of my  post. And if the barrier between pride and shame you're trying to point  out is acceptance and non-acceptance, that's not even really relevant to  pride and shame. If you accept or don't accept who you are inside that  could just mean acknowledging it or not acknowledging it, otherwise it  would be pride or shame.

But seriously though, this whole  distinction between pride and shame wasn't even the point of my post, so  please don't let that distract you from seeing what I was really trying  to say.


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## ursiphiliac (Apr 19, 2013)

I don't see gay/LGBT pride as haughty. I see it as merely a label for gay empowerment and positivism in the context of oppression. I agree with Rilvor that pride and shame are not black-and-white. However, the _shame _surrounding the gay community is what sparked gay _pride _specifically as a countermeasure, as a way of saying, "We will not be ashamed of who we are, but proud." Yeah, remove it from that context and it seems unnecessary, but it only exists because of that context. There is no straight pride, because there is/was not an equivalent straight oppression. 

It's late and I don't feel like I'm expressing this at my best, but it's the general idea I have about gay pride, as someone very interested in LGBT history. At any rate, I think it's odd to paint it as a negative concept, especially if you're part of the demographic that has received the benefits of the advances of the LGBT civil rights movement(s). Gay pride isn't just frivolous parades, it's a broad idea and it's been an integral component of the gay liberation and gay rights movements.


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## Rilvor (Apr 19, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> I see your point but that distinction wasn't even the point of my  post. And if the barrier between pride and shame you're trying to point  out is acceptance and non-acceptance, that's not even really relevant to  pride and shame. If you accept or don't accept who you are inside that  could just mean acknowledging it or not acknowledging it, otherwise it  would be pride or shame.
> 
> But seriously though, this whole  distinction between pride and shame wasn't even the point of my post, so  please don't let that distract you from seeing what I was really trying  to say.



I don't have any issue with the claim that it is good for people to embrace and accept who they are; I only had issue with your claiming that if you aren't proud then you must be shamed, which is black and white thinking and far from the truth.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Apr 19, 2013)

Rilvor said:


> I don't have any issue with the claim that it is good for people to embrace and accept who they are; I only had issue with your claiming that if you aren't proud then you must be shamed, which is black and white thinking and far from the truth.



Well I guess you could be unsure of whether to be proud of who you are or not, like some gay religious people. But that doesn't necessarily make it "a thing." You're still unsure of which actual thing to do.


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## Rilvor (Apr 19, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Well I guess you could be unsure of whether to be proud of who you are or not, like some gay religious people. But that doesn't necessarily make it "a thing." You're still unsure of which actual thing to do.



Some of us are neither proud nor ashamed nor "unsure". Some of us just go with the flow.


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## TigerBeacon (Apr 19, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Well I guess you could be unsure of whether to be proud of who you are or not, like some gay religious people. But that doesn't necessarily make it "a thing." You're still unsure of which actual thing to do.



How about just acceptance. I'm half-filipino and all I have is apathy for what I am. I can't be proud of something feel no pride in just because I am a part of it. I can't say I'm ashamed of it- Filipinos are the kind of down-to-earth, resilient people I hold much respect for. I just don't agree with the way of life they choose to view. 

I don't hate myself, and I feel no willingness to show that I am a proud member of this minority group. Where does this put me in your argument?


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## redhusky17 (Apr 19, 2013)

I donâ€™t feel proud, ashamed and unsure . Itâ€™s what I am .
Not everyone is so sexual. Everyone has something sexual,but not everyone is so sexual .
It could be worst . It could be that all people in furryfandom  are very sexual and have weirdstuff they  enjoy . And thatâ€™s not true .
Furry fandom has no sexuality , no weird stuff. People have,and they bring good and bad stuff in the fandom.
Everybody (mostly) are sexual  in nature .  The different is that some are less and more. 
Even if the government forbids knowledge about sex and weirdstuff, no Mature or Adult stuff on TV, internet, newspaper, comic book,â€¦. ;and forbidsparents to talk about sex to their childrenâ€™s .
 They alone, the kids,will have sex and some would enjoy weird stuff. Itâ€™s something it cant be removed.


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## Andy Dingo Wolf (Apr 19, 2013)

I still say there's an element of oversexualization in this community...
And note, I say this community, as my local book reading and science fiction communities I'm a part of, are much less so. I've yet to see someone wander in with an erotic novella, such as _50 shades_.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> So you're saying people shouldn't be proud of who they are? Because if people aren't proud of who they are, then what else can they be but ashamed?



Be proud of your accomplishments, not where you put you dick =P



-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Being proud of who you are doesn't mean saying "I'm so great because I'm gay/straight/bi/transgendered/whatever." Being proud of who you are means loving, accepting, respecting, and embracing who you are inside and feeling free to be yourself regardless of what others may think of you or how they may judge you.



Actually, it does mean "I'm so great." If people were trying to say "let's accept who we are" they would say it that way.

Again, pride has some haughty connotations. Let's look at the definition of the word:



> 1. a *high or inordinate* opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
> 2. the state or feeling of being proud.
> 3. a becoming or *dignified *sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
> 4. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed *to reflect credit upon oneself*: civic pride.
> 5. something that causes a person or persons to be proud: His art collection was the pride of the family.



I'm not saying you should be _ashamed _of anything. You don't have to be PROUD of something to not be ASHAMED of it; it's all a matter of magnitude. The concept of "pride" is to put yourself above other people. Even if that's not the specific definition, look at the bold words an you will see it's an obvious connotation.

Some people would argue you should have pride for overcoming adversity, but I think that's unrelated to this global concept of "pride" the gay community has embraced. If someone has overcome great adversity then yeah, maybe they *could* see that as an accomplishment but for the greater whole, being gay is not something to be proud of. It's not an accomplishment and this whole ideal is just setting the community further apart from everyone else.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Being proud of who you are means loving,  accepting, respecting, and embracing who you are inside and feeling  free to be yourself regardless of what others may think of you or how  they may judge you.



No it doesn't. Loving, accepting, respecting, and embracing who you  are inside would be loving, accepting, respecting, and embracing who you  are inside. Pride is a very different concept that is NOT mutually  inclusive to all of those.



-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> You're either proud and of who you are inside or you're ashamed of it, there is no "in between."



I'm not ashamed of the fact that my pornography regularly features anthropomorphic characters. I have no problem freely and openly admitting it. I'm perfectly fine if people know that. There's no shame at all for me. However, I don't automatically become proud of it because I'm not ashamed, though.

I think you honestly don't understand what pride even is (not that that's anything to be ashamed of necessarily, I have no idea what "respect" is supposed to myself). Please don't discuss the term until you know what it means because it is NOT the opposite of shame.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> quote rescinded



Although I technically agree with you on the whole "pride" thing and share much of the same sentiment, you DO realize this is a PG forum and there are lots of underage minors here, right?

You might want to reconsider how you phrase things on here.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Although I technically agree with you on the whole "pride" thing and share much of the same sentiment, you DO realize this is a PG forum and there are lots of underage minors here, right?



Huh, I had no idea, that's very interesting.


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## ursiphiliac (Apr 19, 2013)

> 1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
> 2. the state or feeling of being proud.
> 3. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
> 4. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself: civic pride.
> 5. something that causes a person or persons to be proud: His art collection was the pride of the family.



I'm not seeing a collection of inherently negative definitions here, nor any words that particularly tie them to the more concretely negative definition of "haughty" (and don't pull a Mipsus on me and claim you only mean the definition of "lofty" and not the one that includes things like "scornfully arrogant" and "snobbish," because "lofty" isn't inherently negative, either.) I also don't see room only for accomplishments. Nor do I get why pride in being gay is off limits. You keep saying sexual orientation isn't something to be proud of, but_ so what_ if people are? I haven't seen how that's more than a matter of opinion, and as such, can we please just disagree and move on?


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

ursiphiliac said:


> I'm not seeing a collection of inherently negative definitions here, nor any words that particularly tie them to the more concretely negative definition of "haughty" (and don't pull a Mipsus on me and claim you only mean the definition of "lofty" and not the one that includes things like "scornfully arrogant" and "snobbish," because "lofty" isn't inherently negative, either.) I also don't see room only for accomplishments. Nor do I get why pride in being gay is off limits. You keep saying sexual orientation isn't something to be proud of, but_ so what_ if people are? I haven't seen how that's more than a matter of opinion, and as such, can we please just disagree and move on?



The connotation is that you hold yourself in a higher regard than other people in that respect (whatever you are proud of). I think pride is a good thing, and I'm proud about a lot of things myself but my sexuality isn't one of those things. That's just part of whom I am.

And yeah, it *is* an opinion, kind of like the one I'm stating right now. People will make their own choices and decide what they hold in high esteem. If your sexuality is one of those things however, it is MY OPINION your priorities are a bit messed up


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> The connotation is that you hold yourself in a higher regard than other people in that respect (whatever you are proud of). I think pride is a good thing, and I'm proud about a lot of things myself but my sexuality isn't one of those things. That's just part of whom I am.
> 
> And yeah, it *is* an opinion, kind of like the one I'm stating right now. People will make their own choices and decide what they hold in high esteem. If your sexuality is one of those things however, it is MY OPINION your priorities are a bit messed up



I don't think being proud of a glittering career in physics means you hold yourself in a higher regard than someone else with a great many achievments in chemistry. 
Similarly being proud of your orientation, or perhaps more accurately for most proud of being open about it in spite of prejudicial challenges, is not equivalent to holding heterosexuals in any lower regard.

You're exercising a no true scot fallacy on what you call 'pride', trying to shoe horn in emotional characteristics not inherent to its definition.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I don't think being proud of a glittering career in physics means you hold yourself in a higher regard than someone else with a great many achievments in chemistry.



That's not what I said, at all. You are using a "putting words into my mouth" fallacy. That person would obviously not hold themselves in a higher regard than someone with the same kinds of achievements in another field, but would hold themselves in a higher regard than someone without those kinds of achievements. Wasn't that blantantly obvious? Or did you really think I was referring to someone else who has the same achievements in another field? That's a pretty contrived example.



> Similarly being proud of your orientation, or perhaps more accurately for most proud of being open about it in spite of prejudicial challenges, is not equivalent to holding heterosexuals in any lower regard.



This is a "didn't read my entire post" fallacy. I specifically addressed that exact point above.



> You're exercising a no true scot fallacy on what you call 'pride', trying to shoe horn in emotional characteristics not inherent to its definition.



Do you have a list of these things at your desk or some shit? I don't even see how that is relevant. I was agreeing with him that he could very well be proud of being gay. It doesn't mean i dont think his priorities are fucked up.

In a discussion, especially where there isnt really even an argument involved, it doesnt make sense to start listing "logical fallacies." That adds nothing, and you are making up arguments that don't even exist.


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## chronoregerant (Apr 19, 2013)

Yeah. I understand where your coming from, Kitsu. When I was younger and just heard about the fur fandom and a lot of its yiffing content. I thought there's got to be more to this fandom then just simply the yiffing stuff. Cause I've loved watching animal especially anthromorphic animal movies for the longest time. I grew up watching them. but again, no. There's probaley only a quarter of the fandom in my opinion that might do it. About 75% out of a 100 don't. Again this is just opinion base, Simply how I feel about it.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> That person would obviously not hold themselves in a higher regard than someone with the same kinds of achievements in another field, but would hold themselves in a higher regard than someone without those kinds of achievements.



This is true and I think the problem is people are concerned about holding yourself in high regard in general, like it's a bad thing to do. If I achieve or accomplish something in the field of Physics, then hell yeah I'll think highly of myself; that's not a bad thing to do and you wouldn't be a bad person for doing. There are people reading this, and I am better than all or most of them at certain things, and I'm proud about those things (I won't brag or mention what they are by name though) because they take time, effort, dedication, and skill to achieve! You, reading this, have things you're better than most people at and you should be proud too!

Be proud of things that require skills or traits that are admirable (maybe not the best word, but you get the idea, right?), require dedication and effort to accomplish, something that one should aspire to achieve. If simply being gay is that thing, then wow, way to set the bar low.


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## ursiphiliac (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky, how does one having pride in something give you cause to call their priorities "fucked up" when there are no indications of its relativity?


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> That's not what I said, at all. You are using a "putting words into my mouth" fallacy. That person would obviously not hold themselves in a higher regard than someone with the same kinds of achievements in another field, but would hold themselves in a higher regard than someone without those kinds of achievements. Wasn't that blantantly obvious? Or did you really think I was referring to someone else who has the same achievements in another field? That's a pretty contrived example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In what context is someone open and proud in their orientation professing to be 'of higher regard in sexuality' than anyone else? Perhaps you could state proud people hold openness in a higher regard, and this is what their pride means, as in prominent and noticeable...but that's not controvercial in any sense I can fathom. Homosexuals who find being open desireable are...well rather difficult to fault, as opposed to an unfounded connotation that their pride would mean 'my sexuality is superior to yours'.

Your argument was centred on a connotation which is _not_ a definitive property of pride, and that's all I'm pointing out. Your priorities are your own.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

ursiphiliac said:


> Ricky, how does one having pride in something give you cause to call their priorities "fucked up" when there are no indications of its relativity?



Rigby explained it well -- it is just setting the bar low. There *are* indications of relativity from pride's connotation. Being proud about something is not the same as just accepting and feeling perfectly okay about it.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Rigby explained it well -- it is just setting the bar low. There *are* indications of relativity from pride's connotation. Being proud about something is not the same as just accepting it and feeling perfectly okay about it.



Pride in this case concerns awarness of  dignity. Not achievement. [unless we consider examples which require people standing up to a majority or the like] To be self respecting.
In such a case your description is pride in all but the name by which you refer to it.


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## ursiphiliac (Apr 19, 2013)

In the context of the oppression of sexual minorities, that bar is not low.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Pride in this case concerns awarness of   dignity. Not achievement. [unless we consider examples which require  people standing up to a majority or the like] To be self respecting.
> In such a case your description is pride in all but the name by which you refer to it.



From the definition:



> a *high or inordinate* opinion of one's own dignity, *importance, merit, or superiority*



Case in point.

I like how you are only picking the parts of the definition that support your argument :roll:



ursiphiliac said:


> In the context of the oppression of sexual minorities, that bar is not low.



Since you are apparently the second one to miss this, let me repost it:



Ricky said:


> Some people would argue you should have pride for  overcoming adversity, but I think that's unrelated to this global  concept of "pride" the gay community has embraced. If someone has  overcome great adversity then yeah, maybe they *could* see that as an  accomplishment but for the greater whole, being gay is not something to  be proud of. It's not an accomplishment and this whole ideal is just  setting the community further apart from everyone else.


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## ursiphiliac (Apr 19, 2013)

No, Ricky, I saw that. I didn't see anything there outside of opinion, and all I could really say is that I disagree. However, I did touch on the subject of what I see gay pride as last night. You're welcome to respond to that.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Definitions of pride also state 'to be conscious of one's dignity'. 

It is not necessary that, in a case such as this where a word has multiple functions, a subject must satisfy all possible permutations in order to match any one of the definitons. Indeed it only must satisfy the criteria of one discreet definition. 

This is why people can be described as 'taking pride in their profession' even if their position is not superior, important or even merited. They retain their dignity, and that's what makes them proud.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

ursiphiliac said:


> In the context of the oppression of sexual minorities, that bar is not low.



Maybe if you're in a third world country where they truly oppress  people beyond not letting them get married, then possibly, but even then  that's being proud of overcoming adversity than it is being gay.

"I'm  gay." There's no reason that should give you a sense of accomplishment.  "I overcame being homosexual in a community where people are regularly  killed for being gay." Even then, that's borderline, since all you did  was existed. "I saw that my community was truly oppressive to  homosexuals and I actively did something about it." Now we're in the  pride territory, because in this case, you did something more than just  exist or survive.



Fallowfox said:


> Definitions of pride also state 'to be conscious of one's dignity'.



Yes, that definition does exit, but because people were using it wrong in the first place. This is similar to the Alanis Morisette song "Ironic," where nothing in the song that happens (except two examples, IIRC) is ironic, but since people kept using the word completely wrong in the same way, a couple dictionaries add the new definition of "ironic" so that people can understand why Alanis is calling "a free ride when you've already paid" ironic when it isn't ironic. Gay pride works the same way at this point. It's not what "pride" means, but if it saves time, just hastily scribble another definition on the end to shut everyone up.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> Definitions of pride also state 'to be conscious of one's dignity'.
> 
> It is not necessary that, in a case such as this where a word has multiple functions, a subject must satisfy all possible permutations in order to match any one of the definitons. Indeed it only must satisfy the criteria of one discreet definition.
> 
> This is why people can be described as 'taking pride in their profession' even if their position is not superior, important or even merited. They retain their dignity, and that's what makes them proud.



If you are going to blatantly disregard the full definition of words and ignore things like CONNOTATION then I have nothing left to really say here.

ursi - what post? I looked back several pages but couldn't find what you're referring to. Also, I'm on a phone.


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## ursiphiliac (Apr 19, 2013)

Accomplishment is not requisite of pride. Anyway, have fun, guys. I don't want to keep derailing this.

EDIT: Ricky, post #333. Although you can and probably will pick it apart word for word, I will only read what you have to say, because we're just going to end up going in circles over this.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> If you are going to blatantly disregard the full definition of words and ignore things like CONNOTATION then I have nothing left to really say here.
> 
> ursi - what post? I looked back several pages but couldn't find what you're referring to. Also, I'm on a phone.



A person can be proud without having superiority, merit or importance. It is idiocy to assume that using a word is only acceptable when all of its definitions are simultaneously satisfied; in some cases those permutations are impossible. Just try using the word 'set' in such a fashion.



Rigby said:


> Maybe if you're in a third world country where they  truly oppress  people beyond not letting them get married, then  possibly, but even then  that's being proud of overcoming adversity than  it is being gay.
> 
> "I'm  gay." There's no reason that should give you a sense of  accomplishment.  "I overcame being homosexual in a community where  people are regularly  killed for being gay." Even then, that's  borderline, since all you did  was existed. "I saw that my community was  truly oppressive to  homosexuals and I actively did something about  it." Now we're in the  pride territory, because in this case, you did  something more than just  exist or survive.
> 
> ...




The etymology is irrelevant*; we've arrived at the intention [which is the crux] and demonstrated it does not necessarily carry the connotations Ricky suggested. 

*[although I would be intrigued to see you prove the definition of pride as awareness of dignity only emerged post gay pride movement.]


----------



## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> A person can be proud without having superiority, merit or importance.



You're right, just in the same way that "rain on your wedding day" is "ironic."



Fallowfox said:


> The etymology is irrelevant



No, it isn't. A discussion about the definition of a word can't exist in a vacuum, especially given this context (in a discussion of gay pride resulting in a discussion about the definition of "pride," the fact that there's a splinter definition that exists because of the phrase "gay pride" and the subsequent misuse is overwhelmingly relevant and it's the only way I can see this stupid fucking conservation ending; at least until someone gets proven wrong definitively then decides "you know what, this is dumb, I'm not talking about this shit anymore" and leaves grumpily).

You know what? This is dumb. I am NOT talking about this shit anymore. *leaves grumpily*


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Can someone tell me where this so-called definition is even coming from? Because I Googled it and posted the entire thing on the last page...


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> You're right, just in the same way that "rain on your wedding day" is "ironic."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The discussion focussed on attributing certain definitions of pride to gay pride in order to criticise that construct. If it turns out that this wasn't what gay pride means anyway, as is actually rather obviously the case since being gay doesn't make anyone superior or important etc, then we'd be engaging with strawmen, whether or not the word originated in old english etc.



Ricky said:


> Can someone tell me where this so-called definition  is even coming from? Because I Googled it and posted the entire thing  on the last page...



_pride__noun_â€ƒ/prÄ«d/â€ƒ
prides, plural


A  feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own  achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely  associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired
- the team was bursting with _pride_ after recording a sensational victory 
- a woman who *takes* great *pride in* her appearance 
 
The consciousness of one's own dignity
- he swallowed his _pride_ and asked for help 
 
The quality of having an excessively high opinion of oneself or one's importance
- the sin of _pride_ 
 
A person or thing that is the object or source of a feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction
- the swimming pool is the _pride_ of the community 
 
The best state or condition of something; the prime
- in *the pride of* youth 
 
A group of lions forming a social unit 


From google define.


Rather importantly the fact that pride is used to describe a group of lions as well as emotional constructs proves that 'you have to satisfy all the definitions' is utter shite.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> _pride__noun_â€ƒ/prÄ«d/â€ƒ
> prides, plural
> 
> 
> ...



Google takes that definition from an external source actually.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pride

Your entire second definition is:

2. consciousness of oneâ€™s own dignity:_he swallowed his pride and asked for help_
 - the quality of having an excessively high opinion of oneself or oneâ€™s importance:_the worst sin in a ruler was pride_

Even here it has the same negative connotations like Ricky was saying all along. It even reiterates that it, once again, means you are overcoming a high opinion of one self. Amazing, isn't it?

Edit: I realized you added your own emphasis there with the bold. That first definition says that it has to be an achievement (even though you highlighted the appearance example). Example five involves being proud in the traditional sense, but for something that isn't necessarily achieved by active actions, it's not meant to undo the connotations applied by literally every other definition you listed (sans the lion one). So unless being gay is a state of being that your grow into and then fall out of, it doesn't work either.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> From google define.



Fair enough. So, let's address THAT one. Do you think being gay is a reason to feel dignified? There is also the issue of connotation that was never addressed. I feel that's pretty fucking important. Also, I'm not saying it needs to fit all definitions. Remember, this all started with me saying it has haughty CONNOTATIONS.


EDIT:



Rigby said:


> Your entire second definition is:
> 
> 2. consciousness of oneâ€™s own dignity:_he swallowed his pride and asked for help_
> - the quality of having an excessively high opinion of oneself or oneâ€™s importance:_the worst sin in a ruler was pride_
> ...



Oh shit, nice find XD


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Google takes that definition from an external source actually.
> 
> http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pride
> 
> ...



This is becoming rather moot, because it's developed into a row over semantic qualities instead of the actual intent of gay pride and the function it serves in its subscribes. 

I guess since they used the word 'gay' this means that all gay people have to be happy and light hearted all the time, because the word 'gay' comes from so and so kentish tribe and carries that connotation in the kingdom of wessex.



Ricky said:


> Fair enough. So, let's address THAT one.
> 
> Do you think being gay is a reason to feel dignified?
> 
> ...



The very word 'gay' has its own connotations. We all ignore _those_ connotations because, well we're adults and can understand that the use of words develops over time rather than being concretely the same since their advent in old english.

The Etymology is not the point. Intent is the point.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

This *is* a semantic debate.

Etymology is completely relevant.

We are talking about the word "pride."


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## Troj (Apr 19, 2013)

"Gay Pride" is more a matter of self-worth or self-esteem than "pride" as it's usually defined. But, "Gay Self-Worth" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Should people behave as if being gay, black, female, disabled, tall, short, autistic, or whatever were some kind of achievement or accomplishment, like learning to play the violin, or climbing a mountain? No.

Should people root their sense of self and self-worth completely in their race, sexual orientation, height, weight, sex, ability status, or the like? No. 

Should people embrace and come to terms with their race, sexual orientation, height, weight, sex, ability status, and _all _of their other positive or neutral immutable and/or inborn qualities, and love themselves because of (or at the _very least, _in spite of) all of these _and_ other qualities? Hell yes.

"Gay Pride" is _ideally_ about this last thing. It's about saying, "Yeah, there are people who've tried to put me down for who I am, and there are people who would prefer I feel bad about who I am, but _I choose to accept, value, and like myself_, in spite of all that bullshit."


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Oh goodness, thanks Troj for some sanity. [and by using that word please don't think I deliberately invite the connotation that the rest of you have mental health defects]



Ricky said:


> This *is* a semantic debate.
> 
> Etymology is completely relevant.
> 
> We are talking about the word "pride."


You think that gay pride is haughty because you think some definitions of the word 'pride' carry haughty connotations. 

I could just as easily, and incorrectly, insist that gay pride is carefee, not serious, etc when the opposite is true because gay 'actually' means cheery and frivolous. 

It would not make any sense to draw our conclusions about a group's function from the etymology of the noun they choose. It is the same as judging a book by the title written on the front.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> This is becoming rather moot, because it's developed into a row over semantic qualities instead of the actual intent of gay pride and the function it serves in its subscribes.



Translated: "I've been proven utterly and completely incorrect at every single junction, so I'll change the subject, saying that it never mattered in the first place."



Fallowfox said:


> I guess since they used the word 'gay' this means that all gay people have to be happy and light hearted all the time, because the word 'gay' comes from so and so kentish tribe and carries that connotation in the kingdom of wessex.



Well it's a damn good thing no one ever said that, isn't it? If you want to sit around and show off your asinine strawman fallacies, feel free. Just remember what the Strawman from the Wizard of Oz said, "some people without brains do an awful lot of talking... don't they?"



Fallowfox said:


> The Etymology is not the point. Intent is the point.



Intent isn't a license to use a word completely wrong for no reason. For etymology not mattering, you sure like to base a hell of a lot of your points on it.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

I was arguing etymology wasn't the point for ages, rigby. Troj succinctly summarises this whole discussion. 

Drawing incorrect conclusions about gay pride because of a snobbish attitude to vocabulary is just...bleh there's a time and place for being precise and that's in elucidating intent in argument not complaining that the title of a movie doesn't give away every single aspect of its plot.


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## Troj (Apr 19, 2013)

In order to be haughty, one usually has to feel superior.

One can nurse feelings of superiority amidst sharp criticism and intense ostracism, sure, but it typically takes effort and/or rationalization.

More often, people become haughty when they aren't being criticized or challenged _enough_, or _effectively enough.

_So, maybe some gays in sheltered ports like San Francisco, Boulder, and Berkeley have the potential to become haughty or snooty,  but in general, I'd say Conservative Christianity (whether Protestant or Catholic) embodies "haughtiness" _much _better than the Gay Community, as a rule.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I was arguing etymology wasn't the point for ages, rigby. Troj succinctly summarises this whole discussion.



Of course he/she does, they're approaching the subject reasonably. It seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing, and now that someone has come along _and said virtually the same thing I have been saying for a while_, you're going to latch onto it anyways so that you can preserve an appearance of being right without having the responsibility of expressing the logic rationally (because being right matters more to you than reaching a logical conclusion).



Fallowfox said:


> Drawing incorrect conclusions about gay pride  because of a snobbish attitude to vocabulary is just...bleh there's a  time and place for being precise and that's in elucidating intent in  argument not complaining that the title of a movie doesn't give away  every single aspect of its plot.



Can you go even a single post without putting words into mouths that don't belong to you?


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## Sithon (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> No, it's more desirable representation of you, not a more "true."


No. In reality, I like to think of myself as a person who doesnt care about what others think of me, but in reality I hate being the centre of attention and so alter myself around most people, unless i know they share an aspect of my personality (E.g. Furaffinity) so I am not too noticeable. My fursona is more outgoing, a more 'true' me, whose homosexual, furry, geeky etc. personality is not hidden. even around my closest and most trusted friends I am nothing like when I am alone.


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## Sithon (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> In what respect?
> 
> Can't you work on trying to be that person? Or is it specifically the fur/ears/tail?



The anthro body is part of it, yes. But what I was referencing is that I do not like people noticing me. I hide my Homosexuality, Furriness etc. from the world (amongst other things) so as to not draw attention to myself. My fursona is who I wish to be. Someone who does not hide their personality, and has the confidence to be themselves around people.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Troj said:


> "Gay Pride" is more a matter of self-worth or  self-esteem than "pride" as it's usually defined. But, "Gay Self-Worth"  doesn't have the same ring to it.



I agree that motive makes a lot more sense.

That is still the term that is ubiquitously used. It doesn't sit well with me, at all.

Aside  from the formal definition and connotation, it has also  come to mean "hey, let's shove this in everyone's face."

I'm thinking more about pride parades and all that jazz in the second point, not semantics.

I  really do think it sets the gay community apart from the rest of the  world.

It has the opposite effect as intended, which is acceptance by others.



Fallowfox said:


> Oh  goodness, thanks Troj for some sanity. [and by using that word please  don't think I deliberately invite the connotation that the rest of you  have mental health defects]



That's not what connotation means, at all.

That is an IMPLICATION.

I see why there is a bit of a language barrier, here :roll:

Re:  the rest of your post... I can't tell if you are arguing for the sake  of arguing, or if you seriously don't understand how words work. To  summarize things, yes -- this all started as a semantic debate about the term PRIDE. I'm not  using a homonym here, like your alternate definition of 'gay.' That  isn't applicable, or even relevant. My issue is simply with the term "pride"  and its (actual) definition, along with the connotation it carries *when it's used in  this context*.



Sithon said:


> The anthro body is part of it, yes. But what I was referencing is that I do not like people noticing me. I hide my Homosexuality, Furriness etc. from the world (amongst other things) so as to not draw attention to myself. My fursona is who I wish to be. Someone who does not hide their personality, and has the confidence to be themselves around people.



You shouldn't *hide* your personality IRL, though.

BE A RADIANT BUTTERFLY

Seriously, though... Can't you better yourself instead of creating an alter-ego to simply fantasize about it?


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Sithon said:


> My fursona is who I wish to be.



Exactly, but it isn't who you are. Even if the traits are the same, it's not a more true version of you, it's a more social you (or open you or insert any adjective that fits), and that more social you is a more desirable you, but it isn't more true. Your _fursona_ might be more true _to himself_ than you are _to yourself_ though.


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## Sithon (Apr 19, 2013)

Ricky said:


> You shouldn't *hide* your personality IRL, though.
> 
> BE A RADIANT BUTTERFLY
> 
> Seriously, though... Can't you better yourself instead of creating an alter-ego to simply fantasize about it?


I wish... I have tried, truly. I just can't be myself if it means drawing attention to myself. I would rather be on my own than surrounded by people watching me (Not to say i dont have a group of friends). I hate being the centre of attention. One person found out I was a furry once (and for some reason thought it meant i liked to watch people have sex dressed as animals :/) and it terrified me he would tell people that i was (and what he thought it was) and that i would have to explain my way out of people questioning me constantly. This is why i love the internet. In real life i couldnt be myself 'with' people on forums.


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## Sithon (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Exactly, but it isn't who you are. Even if the traits are the same, it's not a more true version of you, it's a more social you (or open you or insert any adjective that fits), and that more social you is a more desirable you, but it isn't more true. Your _fursona_ might be more true _to himself_ than you are _to yourself_ though.


Thats what I mean. The 'true' me is a guy who is nothing like people know me as. It may not be a more_ real_ version of me, but it is a more_ true_ version of me, true to who I really am, other than the person I show people I am.

And my fursona is not more social than I am (If anything he is less so) he is just less scared of people knowing the real him.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Of course he/she does, they're approaching the subject reasonably. It seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing, and now that someone has come along _and said virtually the same thing I have been saying for a while_, you're going to latch onto it anyways so that you can preserve an appearance of being right without having the responsibility of expressing the logic rationally (because being right matters more to you than reaching a logical conclusion).
> 
> 
> 
> Can you go even a single post without putting words into mouths that don't belong to you?



I mistakenly thought you were defending ricky's comments about gay pride being haughty by using the old-english etymology of pride as a platform.


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## Rigby (Apr 19, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> I mistakenly thought you were defending ricky's comments about gay pride being haughty by using the old-english etymology of pride as a platform.



Well the joke's on you because I don't even know what the word "haughty" means so ha! Also, it isn't "old-english," it's still the primary way people use the word to this day.


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## Ricky (Apr 19, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Well the joke's on you because I don't even know what the word "haughty" means so ha! Also, it isn't "old-english," it's still the primary way people use the word to this day.



It is the *actual* definition as opposed to the contrived one people are trying to use here that we already discredited multiple times. WTF old-english? It is the dictionary definition of the word.

This has gotten silly and since people are ignoring definitions and making up their own, not to mention connotation of those words, which was my point in the first place, this discussion will go nowhere.


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## Rilvor (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm going to go out on a limb here to try and point out what I think you are missing, Ricky. But I will only try this once, as I am not interested in the argument at all.

What they are trying to tell you is that people are doing what people do, which is evolving language through common use. This is the natural way of language. The people who are using pride in this instance are certainly using the wrong word if you wanted to split hairs, and might be better served with say "Gay Mettle" but that is not how people are. They will continue to use "pride" instead and by this merit eventually give a separate definition of the word that exists outside of its typical understanding.

Not that there _aren't_ arrogant people who are using a superiority complex about it.


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## DarrylWolf (Apr 20, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.



I absolutely agree with you on that. Those who know of my fursona know I am very literally "becoming someone I wish I could be." And yes, I feel there are other ways to be provocative without using sex as a selling point. The reasoning behind my fursona is really rather simple when you think about it- to read Garvey, Baraka, and Carmichael and to listen to Sweet Philly is unnatural and doesn't make much sense for me. But my Furry alter ego can do all these things, no problem at all.


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## Ricky (Apr 20, 2013)

Rilvor said:


> Not that there _aren't_ arrogant people who are using a superiority complex about it.



Most of them are, and most of them have excluding and arrogant attitudes.

The reason I make that near-generalization is living in The Castro for 5 years.

It's also arrogant to think you can just redefine words.

Stop bastardizing my language :V

Even if they manage, there's still the issue of *connotation* which is what I was talking about in the first place.

It goes hand-in-hand with these Pride Parades.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 20, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Most of them are, and most of them have excluding and arrogant attitudes.
> 
> The reason I make that near-generalization is living in The Castro for 5 years.
> 
> ...



Living in castro doesn't provide a platform to make a comment on 'most of them [gay pride subscribers]' because the majority...don't live in castro, and you've _never_ met them. 

It is indeed arrogant to think you can redefine words. Just imagine if someone redefined the word 'marriage'. Gosh; there'd be no end to confusion; would there? x3

Pride parades might seem showy and arrogant to you, living in a predominantly gay community which you may think has no justification for them, but in Prague or Moscow where there is outspoken political rhetoric against homosexuals, to the point of banning them from having gay pride parades or descriptions of them which label them as deviated paraphiles or mentally ill, there's a different culture and it's _not_ one of gay arrogance. 

Some people who subscribe to gay pride are arrogant, traditional uses of the word pride might _feature_ arrogance, but this makes an insubstantial comment on the core properties of gay pride the world over.


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## Ricky (Apr 20, 2013)

The parades don't seem "arrogant" as much as "HEY LET'S PUSH THIS IN EVERYONE'S FACE!"

Kind of like some babyfurs with their fetish :roll:

I was talking about the gay people THEMSELVES that seem arrogant, like they have formed their own niche club and "fuck all those straight people."

And you DO know the Castro has like... The biggest gay population of any city in the US, right?

That's a pretty big cross-section if you ask me. Even bigger than the 1000 you claimed was a "statistically significant" number :roll:

Now you're going to tell me _ten times that _is not a good representation of blah blah blah...

Also, Russia isn't even relevant to what I'm talking about. Geeze.


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## Troj (Apr 20, 2013)

Sithon said:


> The anthro body is part of it, yes. But what I was referencing is that I do not like people noticing me. I hide my Homosexuality, Furriness etc. from the world (amongst other things) so as to not draw attention to myself. My fursona is who I wish to be. Someone who does not hide their personality, and has the confidence to be themselves around people.



Makes sense, and bravo to you for having some insight into why you appreciate your fursona, and being able to articulate that.

In some sense, a fursuit and/or a fursona can sometimes act as a kind of social "sunscreen" that allows us to go out and play in the "sun" without getting "burned."

Just curious--do you think having a fursona empowers you, enables you, both, or neither? 

(By "enable," I mean it in the sense that an "enabler" is someone or something that keeps someone stuck in a bad, painful, or, at least, not-ideal pattern, mindset, or habit. By "empower," I mean, that it makes you better, saner, stronger, happier, and/or more successful in life.) 



			
				Ricky said:
			
		

> That is still the term that is ubiquitously used. It doesn't sit well with me, at all.



It's never sat totally well with me, either, because I also associate "pride" with accomplishment or achievement. 

When someone says they're "proud" to be Irish, for example, a part of me always goes, "Bwuh?" 

But, as someone who's interested in their own heritage, and likes telling stories about her own ancestors, I get what they're _trying_ to express here.

But, I also realize that there really isn't a clear, simple term to express this idea, and so, we're now stuck with the word "pride," like it or not.

Pride PARADES are a separate issue altogether. A rose by any other name would be just as controversial, because some folks love 'em, and some hate 'em. 



> The reason I make that near-generalization is living in The Castro for 5 years.



Well, and there's one of those rare and unusual "safe havens" I mentioned, where gay people can actually become uppity, snooty, or haughty, because in that environment, actually the dominant species (majority group), and their natural predators don't live there. 

This is definitely not the case in most parts of America, let alone most parts of the world!



> The parades don't seem "arrogant" as much as "HEY LET'S PUSH THIS IN EVERYONE'S FACE!"



Right or wrong, though, when people feel like others have long told them to shut up, go away, and conceal themselves in shame, they'll often fight back by going the other direction, as a way of declaring, "HERE I AM, MOTHERFUCKERS! NOT GOING ANYWHERE; NOT ROLLING OVER AND DYING. SWAG!" 

It's a way of asserting yourself and reclaiming your stolen dignity.

BUT, I agree that this can become annoying, because there are people who taste the sweet nectar of proclaiming oneself and asserting one's inherent dignity, and _never fucking stop. _ What starts as a probably-healthy initial response can indeed turn into an irritating and pathological long-term pattern.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 20, 2013)

If you're only talking about a select number of gay individuals you personally know then...nice anecdote I suppose? Obviously has nothing to do with the word 'pride', since your anecdote would be the same whether or not gay pride was called gay pride or 'think pink' or anything else. Obviously has little to do with gay people in general since it's your personal experience of one city.


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## Rigby (Apr 20, 2013)

Ricky said:


> This has gotten silly. . . this discussion will go nowhere.



This discussion was always going nowhere. Pretty much every "debate"  on these forums goes nowhere until people get bored and move on to  another dumb fight, or it gets locked.



Troj said:


> It's a way of asserting yourself and reclaiming your stolen dignity.



It's hard to have dignity when you're literally flaunting sexuality around like a parade float. "Pride" parades in general are executed in some of the most disgusting ways possible, but that's a whole different issue.


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## Troj (Apr 20, 2013)

Rigby said:


> It's hard to have dignity when you're literally flaunting sexuality around like a parade float. "Pride" parades in general are executed in some of the most disgusting ways possible, but that's a whole different issue.



Yeah, well, I never said people were internally consistent .

Bottom line, people who feel they've been shamed and silenced will sometimes react by becoming loud, proud, and utterly shameless. When confined to a short burst, this can be a healthy phase to pass through, on a larger journey towards self-acceptance. When stretched out over a loooooong burst, it can become tiresome and counterproductive.

I'd also like to add that pride parades are all not created same and equal. I've attended a number of parades that were as tame and family-friendly as the Macy's Day parade, and I've attended a number of parades that were overflowing with leatherfags in assless chaps grinding on twinks on dong-shaped floats, and everything in between.

I'm not offended by pride parades--quite the contrary--because I know that the gay community itself is very diverse, and hopefully the people watching and participating know that, too. An "offensive," wild, and/or over-sexualized float, person, or group doesn't represent the whole shindig.

Meanwhile, card-carrying homophobes who just plain hate gays will always have something to nitpick, so fuck 'em--the parade's not for them, anyway!

At the end of the day, if you dislike parades, my feeling is, you don't have to attend or watch them. (Unless you live along the parade route, in which case, my condolences.)


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## Rigby (Apr 20, 2013)

Troj said:


> At the end of the day, if you dislike parades, my  feeling is, you don't have to attend or watch them. (Unless you live  along the parade route, in which case, my condolences.)



Yeah, that's true, but it's difficult for someone who's gay to sit  by and watch these people who "represent" my sexuality do a bunch of dumb shit that ends up making me _even more_ ashamed of my sexuality  instead of "proud" (I'm referring to those "leatherfags in assless chaps  grinding on twinks on dong-shaped floats" parades, the "rated G"  parades are completely fine, but they're completely ignored by everyone that want to mock homosexuality and have it be seen as a  deviant "lifestyle choice").

I'm not sorry that I don't want people to dress in obnoxious costumes and be paraded around like a novelty act in the name of my sexuality.


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## Car Fox (Apr 20, 2013)

This thrad is still going? Man, am I really, REALLY lost...


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## Fallowfox (Apr 20, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Yeah, that's true, but it's difficult for someone who's gay to sit  by and watch these people who "represent" my sexuality do a bunch of dumb shit that ends up making me _even more_ ashamed of my sexuality  instead of "proud" (I'm referring to those "leatherfags in assless chaps  grinding on twinks on dong-shaped floats" parades, the "rated G"  parades are completely fine, but they're completely ignored by everyone that want to mock homosexuality and have it be seen as a  deviant "lifestyle choice").
> 
> I'm not sorry that I don't want people to dress in obnoxious costumes and be paraded around like a novelty act in the name of my sexuality.



For people who dislike homosexuality the 'worst*' people will always represent LGBT, whether or not they are part of parades etc. We can imagine a scenario in which only 1 in 100 parades features raunchy leather fetishists and you can pretty easily guess which parade is going to be assumed as 'representitive' by homophobes. 

So to hell with whatever the simple minded will draw as conclusions from pride parades, anyone whose view is worth its salt will recognise that gay pride parades don't represent the sexuality of all gays, but the intent of the gay people taking part to say 'we don't care what people say, we're happy with the way we are,'.

*Not to say said individuals are inferior in any way, just not representitive. We can draw a similar parody with the representation of scots as red-haired kilt-wearing bag pipe players. These are all minority traits of scottish people; only 13% have red hair [although this_ is_ the highest proportion of red headedness in any nation, but you get the idea].


----------



## Rigby (Apr 20, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> For people who dislike homosexuality the  'worst' people will always represent LGBT, whether or not they are part  of parades etc. We can imagine a scenario in which only 1 in 100 parades  features raunchy leather fetishists and you can pretty easily guess  which parade is going to be assumed as 'representitive' by homophobes.



That doesn't excuse the fact that the self-parodying aspects of the parades still exist. Also, it seems like you're using the same exact logic you're critiquing here to reach broad generalizations in your next paragraph about the people who dislike pride parades.



Fallowfox said:


> So to hell with whatever _the simple minded_ will draw as conclusions from pride parades, _anyone whose view is worth its salt_  will recognise that gay pride parades don't represent the sexuality of  all gays, but the intent of the gay people taking part to say 'we don't  care what people say, we're happy with the way we are,'.



I italicized/underlined the logical fallacies (at least the two that could be  italicized) to save time. Saying that people who disagree with you are "simple" or  that their views aren't worth anything is overwhelmingly ignorant.  They're not crazy, they have their own viewpoints that would be worth  understanding as to improve the relations between gays and homophobes,  and if this "fuck 'em" mentality is what we rely on to deal with this,  it's obviously never going to get better.

(Then there's the whole "this is the intent" thing that is wrong. Some people actually take part in these parades to dis spell the very myths the bad parades perpetuate).

You're being very hypocritical and ignorant, and all in the name of acceptance too.


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 20, 2013)

Rigby said:


> That doesn't excuse the fact that the self-parodying aspects of the parades still exist. Also, it seems like you're using the same exact logic you're critiquing here to reach broad generalizations in your next paragraph about the people who dislike pride parades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If people assume a few people in a gay pride parade is representitive of gay people in general then I think that view is simple-minded, as it's obviously not true. I will concede that people who hold that view will, probably in the majority of cases, not be imbeciles and are perhaps innocently ignorant of their stereotype's flaws or implications. 

I don't think changing your behaviour in order to be more 'pallettable'* to homophobes is the solution to this problem however. I think that's even a really bad solution, because the problem is that people assume 'loud' homosexuals represent all homosexuals. Encouraging highly visible homosexuals not to be themselves might improve the perception of gays, but it doesn't disengage the systematic problem.

*I view this as conformity and perhaps even an implication of shame on people who aren't viewed as pallettable.


----------



## Ricky (Apr 20, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> If you're only talking about a select number of gay individuals you personally know then...nice anecdote I suppose? Obviously has nothing to do with the word 'pride', since your anecdote would be the same whether or not gay pride was called gay pride or 'think pink' or anything else.



No, I was talking about all the flaming queens in the Castro. Mind you that's about 90% of the gay population there. Also, I wasn't talking about the word "pride" at all; that was an aside. Follow the conversation =p

@Troj: I agree with pretty much everything you said.  The thing is, these are the events that give "gay culture" definition and a HUGE reason I don't want to be a part of it. I don't have to be and that's fine, but do you *really* think it is creating a positive image?


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 20, 2013)

Regardless of what image gay pride parades create, would it be fair to say that gay pride is not haughty and that pressuring other people not to be themselves when their expression is entirely legal in order to safe-guard an image is approaching the topic...I think back to front. 

The gay pride parades provide a negative image of homosexuals because that's what people who are looking to stereotype gays are after. It's a confirmation bias [and I think it is fair to say this, though it may be a generalisation], so should gay pride not exist, and should the 'flaming queens' not march, I'm sure the new stereotypical image of homosexuality would be made by searching for a new way in which those individuals express themselves. 

I think the real argument should be that there just isn't an image of homosexuality at all. The idea that there _can_ be one when gay individuals only share one thing in common- being gay- is absurd and that's what should be addressed, rather than proud queens who are featured in said image.


----------



## Troj (Apr 20, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Yeah, that's true, but it's difficult for someone who's gay to sit  by and watch these people who "represent" my sexuality do a bunch of dumb shit that ends up making me _even more_ ashamed of my sexuality  instead of "proud" (I'm referring to those "leatherfags in assless chaps  grinding on twinks on dong-shaped floats" parades, the "rated G"  parades are completely fine, but they're completely ignored by everyone that want to mock homosexuality and have it be seen as a  deviant "lifestyle choice").



If we were having this conversation circa 1985--or even, circa 1995--I might agree with you.

But, in 2013, most of the people who are at all receptive to gays already know that Pride is basically Queer Mardi Gras, and the people who are still citing Pride as an example of What Fags Are Really Like are too willfully ignorant to bother with, or actually know they're being disingenuous.

Yes, it's harder to stomach embarrassing or shameful behavior from your fellows when you're a member of a minority group, because it feels like any additional straw might be the one that breaks the camel's back. I've been there.

But, on the other hand, if Mardi Gras and Spring Break aren't thought to reflect poorly on Breeders as a whole, then why should Pride be seen or thought of as a reflection on all LGBTQ folk? 

Mardi Gras and Spring Break are both times for people to celebrate and have fun--rather than express some "message" about their "identity" or "purpose"---and for a lot of people, Pride is the same way. 

Additionally, some of the stuff that goes down during Mardi Gras or during Spring Break is, to my mind, actually worse than the relatively-innocent-even-if-it's-gross assless-chappery you see at Pride. At least assless chaps can't get people hurt or killed (unless you're being really creative).


----------



## Ricky (Apr 21, 2013)

Fallowfox said:


> The gay pride parades provide a negative image  of homosexuals because that's what people who are looking to stereotype  gays are after. It's a confirmation bias [and I think it is fair to say  this, though it may be a generalisation], so should gay pride not exist,  and should the 'flaming queens' not march, I'm sure the new  stereotypical image of homosexuality would be made by searching for a  new way in which those individuals express themselves.



I  would call it sample bias; saying it is "confirmation bias" by the people propagating the stereotype is a chicken-and-the-egg  scenario. Obviously they aren't the ones *causing* these people to act  this way, and they don't really have any motivation to think that they do. The loudest and most flamboyant people are always going to get  the most attention, even if they aren't in the majority. Obviously  a generalization won't hold in every case, but stereotypes are usually based on some amount of truth.

It's sort of like blacks and violence. That was based on unfortunate   circumstances, but it didn't just solidify out of thin air. Blacks were in poverty for a long time as a   result of slavery and persecution and other factors beyond their   control. People in desperate situations are more likely to turn to crime. Living with freedom and equal rights for a while now, that is   starting to go away. It will take another generation or two but it has   already started to get a lot better.

If gay  people stopped acting like weirdos, the stereotype would wane and people  would start to think of gays like any other person, as it should be. I  highly doubt a new negative stereotype would just spontaneously  generate based on nothing. Personally, I would like to see  gays viewed as "just another person" in the eyes of mainstream society, as opposed to flamboyant and eccentric sexually-perverted freaks that talk  and act like black southern women. I realize there are probably some  inherent traits that gays posses on a more innate level but I'm talking about the ultra-flamboyant queens who obviously try way too  hard. There sure are a lot of those, and they are the loudest ones which is why this is seen as the essence of "gay culture."



Fallowfox said:


> I think the real argument should be that there  just isn't an image of homosexuality at all. The idea that there _can_  be one when gay individuals only share one thing in common- being gay-  is absurd and that's what should be addressed, rather than proud queens  who are featured in said image.



I agree 100%



Troj said:


> But, in 2013, most of the people who are at all receptive to gays already know that Pride is basically Queer Mardi Gras, and the people who are still citing Pride as an example of What Fags Are Really Like are too willfully ignorant to bother with, or actually know they're being disingenuous.



Those are the people we should be MOST concerned about if we are looking for mainstream acceptance. People who are already receptive to gays are already won. Even though it's 2013, you have to realize that many states are still stuck in the dark ages. Since the media tends to focus on stuff like these parades (and generally the loudest, most embarrassing individuals there) this is the image they receive of gay people.

Most people in the Deep South probably don't know a gay person. It's not acceptable down there, and even if some people were gay they most likely wouldn't admit it. Having lived there, I've known some people who were almost outright homophobes. They were surprised when they found out I was gay, but I also completely changed their perception of what that entailed. They had always thought of gay people as flaming, perverted sex-fiends. When they found out someone they could hang out with and even relate to was gay it turned thier entire view upside-down.

THAT is progress.



Troj said:


> Yes, it's harder to stomach embarrassing or shameful behavior from your fellows when you're a member of a minority group, because it feels like any additional straw might be the one that breaks the camel's back. I've been there.
> 
> But, on the other hand, if Mardi Gras and Spring Break aren't thought to reflect poorly on Breeders as a whole, then why should Pride be seen or thought of as a reflection on all LGBTQ folk?



"Breeders" were never looking for acceptance and have always been in the majority.

They aren't exactly worried about creating negative stereotypes _of themselves_...


----------



## H.B.C (Apr 21, 2013)

Nothing to really contribute as far as debate goes, but just something I'd like to note.

Personally, I don't really put myself out there. I've slipped past some keen gaydars. :V If anyone asks me, I'll tell them the truth, but I don't just outright tell anyone I'm gay. Never thought it was anything worth mentioning unless the person happened to be interested for whatever reason.
It's for that reason that I still don't seem to be able to identify with the gay community too well, and I think after reading some of these posts, I think I understand a little better as to why that is. More specifically, that whole "pride" concept. That idea never seemed to really sit well with me for some reason. 

Anyways, that's just me. Good stuff, people.


----------



## Sithon (Apr 21, 2013)

Troj said:


> Makes sense, and bravo to you for having some insight into why you appreciate your fursona, and being able to articulate that.
> 
> In some sense, a fursuit and/or a fursona can sometimes act as a kind of social "sunscreen" that allows us to go out and play in the "sun" without getting "burned."
> 
> ...


I guess my fursona empowers me, yet depending on my mood it can also be an enabler. The fact that my fursona is 'out' in most/all aspects of his personality and life is almost like a taunt to me when in a bad, 'depressive' sort of mood.


----------



## Troj (Apr 22, 2013)

Ricky said:
			
		

> If gay  people stopped acting like weirdos, the stereotype would wane  and people  would start to think of gays like any other person, as it  should be.



I think a growing number people are doing just that, because the majority of gay people do _not_ act like weirdos on a daily basis (and I'd argue that the gay people who are weird or crazy on a daily basis are weird or crazy for reasons that extend well beyond just being gay).

This kind of overlaps with a problem relevant to the furry community, which is, when is a "weird" or "eccentric" behavior a dangerous reflection on the larger community that may be good to police for the well-being of the community, and when is a weird behavior confined to the individual who engages in it?

Policing someone else's behavior just because it makes _you_ uneasy, uncomfortable, or embarrassed enters into some potentially-dark territory that can end up being harmful for everyone involved. 

But, on the other hand, we've had other good conversations here about the importance of policing criminal or harmful behavior in Furry, so there's definitely a place for policing.

Personally, I think that if someone else is just being _benignly_ embarrassing, and _isn't_ trying or claiming to act or speak for others, you (generic you) have to own your _own_ embarrassment and annoyance there, and try to let it go.



> Those are the people we should be MOST concerned about if we are looking  for mainstream acceptance. People who are already receptive to gays are  already won.



There are people who will NEVER be won over. They're going to become our generation's Dixiecrats. Even if you put all of the leatherfags and drag queens in suits and teach them to stop lisping, those types will still try to claim that "that faggoty stuff" still happens somewhere behind closed doors, or that there's a lib-er-uhl media conspiracy to hide what "those people" actually do.

But, there are an increasing number of people who are slowly coming around, and Pride parades actually aren't part of that decision process at all, in my estimation.

People who are coming around to gay rights are doing so because of the following combination of elements:

a) Social pressure to be less homophobic, or less _openly_ homophobic,
2) Increasingly diverse and increasingly positive portrayals of LGBT people in society and the media,
c) Meeting and knowing LGBT people in real life.

This third element is especially powerful. I know a number of reformed homophobes whose minds were changed as a result of their friendly, positive encounters with everyday gay people in their social circle.

I really don't think Pride does much to "make" or "break" how people feel about gays; people usually just use Pride to reinforce and support what they already believe, and are determined to believe.


----------



## Fallowfox (Apr 22, 2013)

To be frank, there are likely some LGBT people out there who wish LGBT wasn't so common in Furries, because they don't want to be associated with us weirdos or even stunted individuals who can only be social when hiding behind masks, costumes and imaginary online characters. 

Just to bring some outside perspect.


----------



## Troj (Apr 22, 2013)

Sithon said:


> I guess my fursona empowers me, yet depending on my mood it can also be an enabler. The fact that my fursona is 'out' in most/all aspects of his personality and life is almost like a taunt to me when in a bad, 'depressive' sort of mood.



So, on the positive side, your fursona allows you to express aspects of yourself that would otherwise go unexpressed.

Fair? Correct? Am I understanding?

On the negative side, it sounds like you don't have too many other places right now where you truly feel like you can "be yourself" and express yourself in this way, so you feel depressed when you _don't_ get to be in fursona-mode.

So, on the one paw, your fursona at least allows you to express yourself, but on the other, you feel less effective, less honest, and more depressed in non-furry areas of your life.

Right? Fair? Am I understanding?


----------



## Sithon (Apr 22, 2013)

Troj said:


> So, on the positive side, your fursona allows you to express aspects of yourself that would otherwise go unexpressed.
> 
> On the negative side, it sounds like you don't have too many other places right now where you truly feel like you can "be yourself" and express yourself in this way, so you feel depressed when you _don't_ get to be in fursona-mode.
> 
> ...


Mostly. I wouldn't say that I feel depressed when I'm not expressing myself through my fursona, just that when I'm already feeling that way my fursona acts as fuel for the fire, so to speak.

Also, 'on the one paw'? Things like that are why I love online communities like this. Nowhere else I know would anything like that be said.


----------



## benignBiotic (Apr 22, 2013)

Sithon said:


> Also, 'on the one paw'? Things like that are why I love online communities like this. Nowhere else I know would anything like that be said.


Friendly warning: There are some (many) on this forum who would mock you for using such an expression.


----------



## Riho (Apr 22, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> Friendly warning: There are some (many) on this forum who would mock you for using such an expression.


Go yiff yourself, cub-loving fuzzfluffer.


----------



## Kahoku (Apr 22, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



Furry, 14-18, and internet. 
Where does this not equal sex to you? 

Besides, that is like the only thing on their minds, not getting a job or working. I get your frustration, but more than just welcome to FaF.....Welcome to the internet.


----------



## RiddlesInTheDark (Apr 22, 2013)

I for one agree that there are too many young, apparently Yiff addicted Furries out there. I could do with a little less of it myself, but I honestly can't complain or judge as I have no right to because I *sighs deeply* admitedly enjoy that aspect of being a furry, myself. Not nearly to that extent, but I do like a decent yiff from time to time. 

However what I love about this world is its endless compacity for story telling. My fursona, Sound, is a fully developed story all his own and every game I play just about, my first time through, is as him. My attraction to the furry fandom is story telling. I agree that at times it can appear that there is more pointless yiffing going on in this fandom (I dare not say 'my' because I've only just joined one of its communities, and its my nature to assume that all I'm doing is annoying people until proven otherwise) from young, generic, and from a character stand point, hardly developed furries. But I also would dare to say that sexuality and romance has its place. As a writer, If two characters are naturally deeply in love in such a manor or a situation escalates to such a point, then cloths are going to start coming off. (though most of my work is admittedly long, drawn out combat) And sometimes, keep in mind I only really excuse this if the character is actually developed, it is just genuinely in the character's nature to be a smooth talking, aviators wearing, rav bouncing man whore. 

And as for only being able to display yourself from behind a mask. 

I for one love my fursona dearly. I function otherwise in other social arenas fairly decently, but that's only because I've learned to just be me and not give too fekks about what others think. I won't lie to say some of my closets friends are people who I've spent years with online. My fursona makes me feel content every time I use him because he allows me to display aspects about myself that my mortal body never could. When I'm angry, I'm just angry. When Sound gets angry, the ground can rumble, streets can crack, buildings can fall, and armies can dwindle. If I could spend more time among other furries as my fursona, I wouldn't turn it down as I feel I can let all my demons loose and not be hated for it. As for displaying that in other social arenas, I don't know if I can or not, I've never tired. I've only started being true to myself. The social arena of the online word still remains my biggest outlet for the expression of what I keep in my closet.  

BTW 





> Friendly warning: There are some (many) on this forum who would mock you for using such an expression.


I am most certainly NOT one of them. I love expressions like this. 

Anyways, this seemed relevant to me, I apologize if its otherwise.


----------



## Artillery Spam (Apr 22, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> Friendly warning: There are some (many) on this forum who would mock you for using such an expression.



This forum is _so_ pawsome! :3 ^____^ >.> <.<


----------



## Percy (Apr 22, 2013)

Artillery Spam said:


> This forum is _so_ pawsome! :3 ^____^ >.> <.<


Hnnnnnnng


----------



## Judge Spear (Apr 22, 2013)

...I never mentioned here. I love boobs. :3
The secret is out. I can die in peace.

...

*Pachi dies*


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Apr 22, 2013)

Percy said:


> Hnnnnnnng



I want your tail. (in a completely furry way of course) :V

Or maybe not...


----------



## Symlus (Apr 22, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> I want your tail. (in a completely furry way of course) :V
> 
> Or maybe not...


Did you forget what happened to Lucy Bones / Ahkmill?!




XoPachi said:


> ...I never mentioned here. I love boobs. :3



In all honesty, who doesn't?


----------



## Ricky (Apr 22, 2013)

Lev1athan said:


> In all honesty, who doesn't?



TBH, boobs are usually a turnoff for me.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Apr 22, 2013)

Lev1athan said:


> Did you forget what happened to Lucy Bones / Ahkmill?!
> 
> 
> In all honesty, who doesn't?



XD I'm just poking fun at his hate of furry words. Also, he's my guy.


----------



## Ranguvar (Apr 22, 2013)

Ricky said:


> TBH, boobs are usually a turnoff for me.


I am a big fan of dick and I still like boobies. Honk, honk (NSFW)


----------



## Ricky (Apr 22, 2013)

Green_Knight said:


> I am a big fan of dick and I still like boobies. Honk, honk (NSFW)



I don't like them. I think that's a big reason why I usually date guys.

There are exceptions, though. One of my ex-girlfriends had the NICEST perky breasts I've ever seen.

They just... looked like they were _meant to be_.

99% of the time they seem out of place.


----------



## Rigby (Apr 22, 2013)

Lev1athan said:


> In all honesty, who doesn't?



Ew, tits are gross.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Apr 22, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Ew, tits are gross.



You'd think a guy in a diaper would appreciate a good, juicy pair of tits.


----------



## Ricky (Apr 22, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> You'd think a guy in a diaper would appreciate a good, juicy pair of tits.



ORLY? :V


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Apr 22, 2013)

Ricky said:


> ORLY? :V



Ack!!! >:C I loathed Baby Plucky. 

What's that thing he used to say? Ducky go down the hooooooooole?


----------



## Ricky (Apr 22, 2013)

not you push the button!

I push the button!



Who's next:


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Apr 22, 2013)

Ricky said:


> not you push the button!
> 
> I push the button!
> 
> ...



Can't say that one rings a bell...


----------



## Artillery Spam (Apr 22, 2013)

Gonna put my murr in your purr.


----------



## Azure (Apr 22, 2013)

this thread is becoming terrible

i would also like to say

boobs are only fun when they offend other people


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## Ricky (Apr 22, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> Can't say that one rings a bell...



That's a Mizzy pic.

I was posting that in case anyone else wanted a diaper avi.

We could totally start a fad!!!


----------



## Ranguvar (Apr 22, 2013)

Ricky said:


> That's a Mizzy pic.
> 
> I was posting that in case anyone else wanted a diaper avi.
> 
> We could totally start a fad!!!


Got any otters in diapers?


----------



## Ricky (Apr 23, 2013)

Green_Knight said:


> Got any otters in diapers?



No, but I can find one!


----------



## Rigby (Apr 23, 2013)

Ricky said:


> No, but I can find one!



aww, that's adorable


----------



## ArielMT (Apr 23, 2013)

Guys, take the diapered avatar requests to the art forums.



Azure said:


> this thread is becoming terrible



I'm starting to agree.  What is it even about now, anyway?



Azure said:


> i would also like to say
> 
> boobs are only fun when they offend other people



Yes.  I see boobs every time I go anywhere with Fox News, MSNBC, and ESPN on their TVs.


----------



## H.B.C (Apr 23, 2013)

What a bunch of babies. :l


----------



## Rigby (Apr 23, 2013)

H.B.C said:


> What a bunch of babies. :l



I resent that.


----------



## H.B.C (Apr 23, 2013)

Rigby said:


> I resent that.



Your avatar fits with that comment almost too well. xD

Also, Mordecai is a terrible parent. Doesn't he realize how late it is?


----------



## Sithon (Apr 23, 2013)

benignBiotic said:


> Friendly warning: There are some (many) on this forum who would mock you for using such an expression.


They should expect furry terminology on a furry forum. I'ts kinda like when people used to get annoyed at obscure game/gaming industry references and jokes on a gaming forum. I just laugh and move on :3


----------



## Rigby (Apr 23, 2013)

Sithon said:


> They should expect furry terminology on a furry forum. I'ts kinda like when people used to get annoyed at obscure game/gaming industry references and jokes on a gaming forum. I just laugh and move on :3



Nah, it's more like people who use baby talk on an ABDL forum, it's annoying as shit (except you actually understand what the furry is saying; the AB? not so much).


----------



## Ricky (Apr 23, 2013)

Rigby said:


> Nah, it's more like people who use baby talk on an ABDL forum, it's annoying as shit (except you actually understand what the furry is saying; the AB? not so much).



They also don't stop with the forums; they do it over IM as well. I understand cutesy role play but they want to live in a never ending one and sometimes I like to be able to carry on a normal conversation with people, it's like %*&+$#!!!


----------



## Rigby (Apr 23, 2013)

Ricky said:


> They also don't stop with the forums; they do it over IM as well. I understand cutesy role play but they want to live in a never ending one and sometimes I like to be able to carry on a normal conversation with people, it's like %*&+$#!!!



Really? I've never even gotten as far as an IM with one, I avoid even communicating with them on a forum. The idea that a grown adult would willingly speak like that out loud is a little disturbing IMO (even if they're home alone, it creeps me out).

The moral of the story here people is that there's a time and place for this language (AB and furry) and don't be surprised if someone finds your fandom-centric lingo sprinkled into your posts obnoxious or irritating. Just keep it reasonable, I don't think that's too much to ask.


----------



## Judge Spear (Apr 23, 2013)

Green_Knight said:


> I am a big fan of dick and I still like boobies. Honk, honk (NSFW)



I've said it once and I'll say it again, dicks be fun to draw. :I
And I SWORE you were gonna post this.



Ricky said:


> TBH, boobs are usually a turnoff for me.







You BASTARD!


----------



## Ricky (Apr 23, 2013)

Why does that guy have a scrotum for a chin? :V


----------



## Machine (Apr 24, 2013)

Is that... Bison in blue?


----------



## Judge Spear (Apr 24, 2013)

Machine said:


> Is that... Bison in blue?


Yes. Street Fighter 2 Turbo.



Ricky said:


> Why does that guy have a scrotum for a chin? :V


THAT IS A MANLY ASS CHIN, RICK!!! That shit EATS celestial bodies....for BREAKFAST!! And that's only the side dish!!


----------



## Azure (Apr 24, 2013)

i can always beat M Bison with Chun Lee. easy pickins :v


----------



## Ricky (Apr 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> THAT IS A MANLY ASS CHIN, RICK!!!



Though it might be made out of brass,

His chin makes me laugh 'cause it looks like an ass.

Why doe he have a rear end on his face?

It's fucking hilarious. Get off my case :V


----------



## thoughtmaster (Apr 24, 2013)

The sexuality fortunately isn't the main draw for people here. Unfortunately, connecting to your childhood is the main draw, therefore, we get a lot of people who are having a midlife crisis here, along with those who are very immature. Because of this, having a polite, proper, mannered conversation here is as likely as snow falling in the rainforest. In answer for your question about the reason for all the sexuality, the immaturity of the population here along with the stereotype of furries cause it to be a breeding ground for sexual comments, it is like bacteria in the sole of your shoe.


----------



## Judge Spear (Apr 24, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Though it might be made out of brass,
> 
> His chin makes me laugh 'cause it looks like an ass.
> 
> ...



Roses are red

Violets are blue...







die


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## Azure (Apr 24, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Roses are red
> 
> Violets are blue...
> 
> ...


NOT INTO THE PIT, IT BURNSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


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## Ryoute (Apr 25, 2013)

Sex makes the world go round. I request that porn be built in to all future posts on this forum.


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## Rilvor (Apr 25, 2013)

Azure said:


> NOT INTO THE PIT, IT BURNSSSSSSSSSSSSSS



Why do you keep reminding me of this? Stop reminding me of that.


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## Judge Spear (Apr 25, 2013)

Azure said:


> NOT INTO THE PIT, IT BURNSSSSSSSSSSSSSS



I'll help you then with some lamp oil and rope. As long as you have enough rupees.


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## GhostWolf (Apr 25, 2013)

When I started my furry blog a couple of years ago. I originally planned it as a place to post news of interests to furries. My own and hopefully others stories, and maybe the occasional piece of furry art. Let me tell you that fell flat right from the start. I actually had to sex things up just to get the number of hits I do these days which averages over a 1,000 hits a day.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 25, 2013)

Kitsu said:


> I just dont get it, I love being a furry and wish it was all fun and games but lately everywhere I turn its some punk 14 year old "bisexual" or furfag that has no clue what it means to truly be a furry.  Am I the only one irritated by the number of 14-18 year old whore dogs?  Being a furry isn't all about sex and having sex.  Its about being something better than who you are inside.  Becoming something you wish you could.  Living a second life thru your Fursona.  Ugh maybe I'm just ranting. But I just wish there was more fun and friends then sex and yiffing.  =/



I call bullshit on "furry isn't about sex" due to the fact that the only art that gets the most attention on my FA gallery IS the porn. I was only uploading the clean pieces me and my mate had done of our characters, barely a fuck was given, so we decided to upload some of the adult stuff we commissioned. As soon as I add a pornographic piece to my gallery my watch count increases a lot. 

So yeah, I call fucking bullshit that the fandom is not about porn, to many furries it apparently is.


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## lildog (Apr 25, 2013)

Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?


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## benignBiotic (Apr 25, 2013)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> So yeah, I call fucking bullshit that the fandom is not about porn, to many furries it apparently is.


I imagine a majority of the fandom would agree that sexual interest in furs is not a pre-requisite for being a furry. 
But then again this is the same discussion that happens ad nauseum 'roud herr. I'm getting really tired of it :-[


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## Kalmor (Apr 25, 2013)

lildog said:


> Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?


No.

Just no.

You're gonna get ripped apart for saying that. Did you even take the time to lurk here? Do you honestly think we want to know about your fetishes?


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## Judge Spear (Apr 25, 2013)

lildog said:


> Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?



That depends on whether or not you're fucking joking...


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## lildog (Apr 25, 2013)

Geeezzzzzzzzzz, I lurked long enough to see a prevalent appreciation of irony. Cool yer dogs dog


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## Judge Spear (Apr 25, 2013)

That's all I asked. But try and make it a bit more obvious. Remember, we can't hear or see you. Use this ":V"


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## Kalmor (Apr 25, 2013)

lildog said:


> Geeezzzzzzzzzz, I lurked long enough to see a prevalent appreciation of irony. Cool yer dogs dog


Use the ":V" emoticon to denote sarcasm to eliminate any confusion. Some users can get away without using it as their posting style is well known. You're new and we don't know your personality or posting style.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 25, 2013)

lildog said:


> Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?



Troll is obvious troll.


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## Ricky (Apr 25, 2013)

lildog said:


> Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?



Sure, can I tie you up and beat you with a stick?

... And gouge out your eyes, then cut off your tiny dick?

While you're laying there cowering dickless in despair,

I will sew your mouth shut and start ripping out your hair.

Then I'll burn you alive, while you're crying "what's this for?"

And wishing you'd never posted and you only lurked some more.


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## Azure (Apr 25, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Sure, can I tie you up and beat you with a stick?
> 
> ... And gouge out your eyes, then cut off your tiny dick?
> 
> ...


oh bby, thats hot


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## lildog (Apr 25, 2013)

It's just the nature of the beast that is the 'net that you don't know right off who you're talking to. I mean particularly here, age. I think now you guys are teenagers and I should have considered that possibility (or asked) before being too free with expression. I regret upsetting you.


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## Rilvor (Apr 25, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Sure, can I tie you up and beat you with a stick?
> 
> ... And gouge out your eyes, then cut off your tiny dick?
> 
> ...



Now look here I'm edgy as can be.

You'd better not fool with me.

I'll tear you apart in a post.

I'm the ghost with the most.


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## Judge Spear (Apr 26, 2013)

lildog said:


> It's just the nature of the beast that is the 'net that you don't know right off who you're talking to. I mean particularly here, age. I think now you guys are teenagers and I should have considered that possibility (or asked) before being too free with expression. I regret upsetting you.



Your fault.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 26, 2013)

lildog said:


> It's just the nature of the beast that is the 'net that you don't know right off who you're talking to. I mean particularly here, age. I think now you guys are teenagers and I should have considered that possibility (or asked) before being too free with expression. I regret upsetting you.



A high number of furries are teenagers. Very few furries are of my age.


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## -={Dracimonde}=- (Apr 26, 2013)

lildog said:


> Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?



Not to offend you or anything, but I don't think this is the kind of  place to be doing or even asking things like that. That kind of stuff  (for some ridiculous reason) pisses off a lot of people here and can  give you a bad reputation. So out of concern for your safety and well  being, I would recommend you save that kind of stuff for another forum.

Personally,  I have no problem with roleplaying and stuff like that as long as it's  in it's own individual thread. But don't look at me, I didn't make the  rules :/


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## Valnyr (Apr 27, 2013)

-={Dracimonde}=- said:


> Not to offend you or anything, but I don't think this is the kind of  place to be doing or even asking things like that. That kind of stuff  (for some ridiculous reason) pisses off a lot of people here and can  give you a bad reputation. So out of concern for your safety and well  being, I would recommend you save that kind of stuff for another forum.
> 
> Personally,  I have no problem with roleplaying and stuff like that as long as it's  in it's own individual thread. But don't look at me, I didn't make the  rules :/



You obviously missed the sarcasm


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## Sly_fursome (Apr 27, 2013)

HOLY CRAP I feel the same way! It seems like so many furs I've found are into that, I can't exactly relate to them at all. Its awesome to hear somebody else isn't into furry for sex stuff!


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## rhansen23 (Apr 29, 2013)

In an effort to realign the thread and avoid anymore random trolls, rp requests, fetish posts and the like, I'd like to contribute to the discussion by agreeing with many people so far: The main reason for the over-sexualization of some parts of the fandom rests primarily on the age group and maturity level of its audience, the majority of which is still in their developing teens and early 20s. Because of this, sex and innuendo will be inevitably brought to the surface through furry art, stories, and such, but an important fact many gloss over (especially in popular media sources) is that *all* hobbies and trends involving this age group have the same focus on sex as this one.

Not that I have too much of a problem with it personally, I like some of the well drawn NSFW works.

Another ray of hope for the OP that I don't believe has been mentioned yet, since the cause of the current state of the fandom is the exponential growth of the younger population (see that survey again for a chart of the total number of incoming furries, the graph seriously looks like a ski-slope), in 10 years or so the median age will begin to increase leading to a sort of Furry Renaissance, complete with mature art and doctrine.

Or, you know, it could just become a cesspool of debauchery and yiffing :V


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## Batty Krueger (Apr 29, 2013)

lildog said:


> Hey, I just found this place. Anyone here into pony bondage? Wanna play?


Hey I'm down, shoot me an email at HAHAHAHAHAHA@no.com


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