# Some people are unqualifiedto be furries.



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive. 
The reason being that they have such little concern for real life animals. I have seen people on this board defending and validating bullfighting, animal testing and disecting animals in school. I'm not saying anyone has to change it's mind, I'm saying that I think furries should have some concern for animals. And if you don't, I don't think being a furry is right for you.


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## Rytes (Mar 29, 2009)

hey i dissected animals in school in the name of science!!


besides it died of old age anyway


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## Gavrill (Mar 29, 2009)

Apparently it's weird to have compassion for animals when you play an animal on the internet. :???:


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## foxmusk (Mar 29, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive.
> The reason being that they have such little concern for real life animals. I have seen people on this board defending and validating bullfighting, animal testing and disecting animals in school. I'm not saying anyone has to change it's mind, I'm saying that I think furries should have some concern for animals. And if you don't, I don't think being a furry is right for you.



this.

also, i think it's a little ironic when people are furries and say they love animals so much, while sitting at a keyboard eating meat, soon to head out in a wool coat and leather boots.

but then again, it's only the cute, fuzzy animals that deserve to be treated right. "foxes shouldn't be hunted! what? cows? forget cows, i love hamburgers too much to give that up."


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## Attaman (Mar 29, 2009)

Nice job lumping School Dissections and Animal Testing in the same category as underground dog fighting.  It's not like the dissections are done on live animals, or that the animal testing is just "for the lulz".



psychweasel said:


> also, i think it's a little ironic when people are furries and say they love animals so much, while sitting at a keyboard eating meat, soon to head out in a wool coat and leather boots.


  What is wrong with eating meat?  



> but then again, it's only the cute, fuzzy animals that deserve to be treated right. "foxes shouldn't be hunted! what? cows? forget cows, i love hamburgers too much to give that up."


  You also forgot the "Cool" animals.  Most Furries only care about those that are either cute, cool, or "kawaii".


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

Rytes said:


> hey i dissected animals in school in the name of science!!
> 
> 
> besides it died of old age anyway


 Natural death is ok.


Placebo said:


> Apparently it's weird to have compassion for animals when you play an animal on the internet. :???:


 Yes, when I first found the fandom, I had expected people to be a bit more caring.


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## Gavrill (Mar 29, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Nice job lumping School Dissections and Animal Testing in the same category as underground dog fighting.  It's not like the dissections are done on live animals, or that the animal testing is just "for the lulz".


Didn't see that for a second. But yeah I mean I purchase taxidermy items from animals that have died of natural causes. And animal testing, though controversial, is effective and can be worth the risks of a few rats' lives. Cancer study, for example. 

Dog fights and needless violence and negligence doesn't tend to benefit society, though.



Eerie Silverfox said:


> Yes, when I first found the fandom, I had expected people to be a bit more caring.


I was lucky and started out at Furtopia. They ban anyone who trolls or insults other members.


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Nice job lumping School Dissections and Animal Testing in the same category as underground dog fighting. It's not like the dissections are done on live animals, or that the animal testing is just "for the lulz".
> 
> What is wrong with eating meat?
> 
> .


The purpose of this topic is not to discuss these practices. And I frown upon eating meat but I don't expect everyone to be able to match my high standards. But I think wool is perfictly ok, seeing how the animal is not harmed.


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## mlpard (Mar 29, 2009)

I personaly hate animal killing a cant even watch ... always get my day ruined when accidentaly see dead fox on street for examle makes me sad. I belive death of an animal is terrible waste. 
But there is unfortunately other side of the coin...
I have to eat. We were created the way that we need meat as well as vegetables no mether what its imposible to eat only grass. And wait grass is alive too. All plants are alive they response to outter events... so eating salad is killing that salad thats what biology professor said to us. So I eat ham  so bigs have to die... kind of  suck but its true, its impossible to survive unless you kill. If I become my fursona I would have to kill too. can you imagine A TIGER on A DIET? i dont think so... But there is killing for no reason or killing for nice coat or for fun for money for trophy.. THIS is what should be stopped.


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## Rytes (Mar 29, 2009)

does it help if i feel more sympathetic if a rat dies than a human?


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

mlpard said:


> I personaly hate animal killing a cant even watch ... always get my day ruined when accidentaly see dead fox on street for examle makes me sad. I belive death of an animal is terrible waste.
> But there is unfortunately other side of the coin...
> I have to eat. We were created the way that we *need meat as well as vegetables* no mether what its imposible to eat only grass. And wait grass is alive too. All plants are alive they response to outter events... so eating salad is killing that salad thats what biology professor said to us. So I eat ham so bigs have to be die... kind of suck but its true, its impossible to survive unless you kill. If I become my fursona I would have to kill too. can you imagine A TIGER on A DIET? i dont think so... But there is killing for no reason or killing for nice coat or for fun for money for trophy.. THIS is what should be stopped.


 Untrue. I have been vegetarian for 15 years.


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## Gavrill (Mar 29, 2009)

I don't planning on going veggie now, and I will continue to buy meat fresh from the local free range farms. If I move back to Miami I may consider going veggie.


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## foxmusk (Mar 29, 2009)

mlpard said:


> I have to eat. We were created the way that we need meat as well as vegetables no mether what its imposible to eat only grass. And wait grass is alive too. All plants are alive they response to outter events... so eating salad is killing that salad thats what biology professor said to us. So I eat ham  so bigs have to die... kind of  suck but its true, its impossible to survive unless you kill. If I become my fursona I would have to kill too. can you imagine A TIGER on A DIET? i dont think so... But there is killing for no reason or killing for nice coat or for fun for money for trophy.. THIS is what should be stopped.



just as i said, the cute (and cool, as someone else said) animals are the only ones that get the warranted attention of protection.

firstly, you do not need meat to survive. i have been vegetarian for going on two years, and am extremely healthy. there are many people (like eerie silverfox) that have been vegetarian for a long time and are perfectly healthy. the nutrients you get from meat are found in vegetables of many types.

also, don't say things like "grass is alive". while plants of every type ARE living, they do not have the central nervous system required to feel the pain and emotion of being used, or being killed. that was very ignorant of a biology teacher (of all people, a teacher! that's sad) to say.

but of course, the animals like tigers, foxes, wolves, they get protection because people like them more. to say in one breath that you're fine with killing a pig to eat it and then say that killing for another reason is wrong, that's sickening, to be honest.

fur, if you want to look at it from the same argument that says we need meat to survive, is necessary to survive as well. because, while there is a peaceful alternative to fur, there is also to meat. so to say you need meat but do not need fur (and i would be more than willing to bet at least one thing you own is leather, be it shoes or belt or something else) is extremely hypocritical.



Eerie Silverfox said:


> The purpose of this topic is not to discuss these practices. And I frown upon eating meat but I don't expect everyone to be able to match my high standards. But I think wool is perfictly ok, seeing how the animal is not harmed.



not true, sadly :c a lot of the sheep that we get our mass-produced wool from aren't treated right at all. they are often cut severely by negligent workers, who just shear them as fast as they can. a lot of them die from severe wounds like that. :c

plus, it kinda seems to me like it makes them nothing more than a tool. "oh hey, sheep, guess what? your only purpose in this world is for us to take your wool. then we kill you and eat you. merry christmas to us!"


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## Greyscale (Mar 29, 2009)

Man, I love threads like this.

I'm not a furry because I <3 animals. I'm a furry because i'm fucked in the head, the people are fun, and the art is amusing.


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

psychweasel said:


> not true, sadly :c a lot of the sheep that we get our mass-produced wool from aren't treated right at all. they are often cut severely by negligent workers, who just shear them as fast as they can. a lot of them die from severe wounds like that. :c
> 
> plus, it kinda seems to me like it makes them nothing more than a tool. "oh hey, sheep, guess what? your only purpose in this world is for us to take your wool. then we kill you and eat you. merry christmas to us!"


I feel that the blood is not on my paws. I am not responsible for what they do with the animal afterwards. And I dunno about the negligent part. If a lot of the animals where dying that would be a loss of profit so I think they would want to keep them alive.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Mar 29, 2009)

My face at this topic --->  :|  Also, the only animals I care about are reptiles.


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## Kipple (Mar 29, 2009)

Let's use reasoning and break things down a bit.

Animals kill other animals.

I kill other animals. 

Mosquitoes and cockroaches are animals.

You wouldn't think twice about killing a mosquito or a cockroach. 

Killing, dissection, and consumption is the most animal of activities and I have no pretense thinking that any of these things are wrong for me to partake as long as they are properly controlled and moderated.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

I dissected pig heart at school...

Beside that, i would not harm wolves, fox, cat, and domestic dogs.
(unless they attacked me...)

And hmm, we need meat to be healty...(I love meat <3)

-Can't say i never killed animals thought.........-


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## foxmusk (Mar 29, 2009)

ETC said:


> Let's use reasoning and break things down a bit.
> 
> Animals kill other animals.
> 
> ...



by that logic, you should be allowed to kill humans, rape whoever you want, relieve yourself wherever you feel, go naked...the list goes on. animals do it, why shouldn't you?

also, not everyone kills insects. i don't.



WolvesSoulZ said:


> I dissected pig heart at school...
> 
> Beside that, i would not harm wolves, fox, cat, and domestic dogs.
> (unless they attacked me...)
> ...



what a stereotype you are. it's cool to kill cows and pigs and chickens, but not the cute and cuddly furry animals! they're so innocent and sweet! pet the dog while someone is gutting open a pig with a chainsaw.

and no, you don't need meat to be healthy. read what eerie silverfox and i said.


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

ETC said:


> Let's use reasoning and break things down a bit.
> 
> Animals kill other animals.
> 
> ...


So?

So?

OK.

You are worng. I do. Don't speak for me.

See, we are humans and we can have standards for ourselves and see error in our way. 


WolvesSoulZ said:


> I dissected pig heart at school...
> 
> Beside that, i would not harm wolves, fox, cat, and domestic dogs.
> (unless they attacked me...)
> ...


 Wrong again. Who is telling ppl this? 
See this sort of half-assed conviction? Lame.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Yeah maybe you can live without meat, but i'm not going to be a stupid vegetarians just because i'm a furry... pff. I hate veggies. And love meat >:C

Meet contains protein, iron, zinc, many thing that are good for us.

And.. I love the tastes of meat...


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## Chronic (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm not a vegetarian, because meat substitutes and organic products are expensive round here. If I had the money, I would. 

Oh, and as for people who only like "cute" animals. No. Just no. If you're going to only save snow leopards and wolves, entire ecosystems will collapse when the "ugly" animals disappear.


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> My face at this topic ---> :| Also, the only animals I care about are reptiles.


My face at you --->


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> Yeah maybe you can live without meat, but i'm not going to be a stupid vegetarians just because i'm a furry... pff. I hate veggies. And love meat >:C
> 
> Meet contains protein, iron, zinc, many thing that are good for us.
> 
> And.. I love the tastes of meat...


You got a will o' steel son.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> You got a will o' steel son.


Uh what?


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## Whitenoise (Mar 29, 2009)

Hahaha this thread is awesome :] .


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## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> Uh what?


 It's sarcastic.
By saying "i'm not going to be a stupid vegetarians just because i'm a furry.
And.. I love the tastes of meat..."
you are essentially saying it would be too much for you sacrifice.
Hence the sarcasm.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Ah. 'neway, animals eat other animals, and we are animals too, so it normal that we are meat eater...

I love the taste of meat too much to even think about stopping eating it.


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## Whitenoise (Mar 29, 2009)

I love animals that eat other animals but when hyoomans do it it's terrible bawwwwwwwww D: .


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> I love animals that eat other animals but when hyoomans do it it's terrible bawwwwwwwww D: .



No its awesome when human eat animals :twisted:


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

And it's even sexier when humans eat humans... :> ...Wait...


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## Kipple (Mar 29, 2009)

psychweasel said:


> by that logic, you should be allowed to kill humans, rape whoever you want, relieve yourself wherever you feel, go naked...the list goes on. animals do it, why shouldn't you?
> 
> also, not everyone kills insects. i don't.


Nature allows and encourages us to kill. Nature doesn't care about where we take a shit or what consent really means. To Nature, there is no cuteness, no intrinsic value, only you. Screwflies will tear you apart, certain kinds of maggots have evolved to dig through your flesh, and even diseases are life. Why shouldn't I? We're allowed to do these things, the only thing in our way is the law, but I only do what I like and really, rape's never appealed to me. You probably have my parents to thank for that one, though.

I don't kill insects either; the only animals I kill are the ones I stuff down my gullet. The snails that end up in my garden are put in a coffee can and dumped somewhere nice and moist. That doesn't really matter; I was trying to play Devil's Advocate with that line. The very act of buying wheat or grains is encouraging the murder of countless insects and you have to accept that if you're going to maintain any sanity in this humane society we've tried to build.



			
				Eerie Silverfox said:
			
		

> So?
> 
> So?
> 
> ...


So? Firstly, you say that the fandom should care about animals, a statement that I should add is patently false, considering the fandom converges for a number of reasons. Secondly, despite your quest to care for animals, you've, so far, expressed no respect for the animal lifestyle, passing it off with a dismissive "So?" denying the beautiful consumption and fairness that governs all predator-prey relationships. I've seen a friend's pet parrot get torn apart by a hawk. This is the way animals live.

The rituals of bullfighting, trophy hunting, fishing, and sports are testament to the glory of the animals we've evolved from, the celebration of the predation that's made humans into what they are today. It's a sublimation of the destruction we would otherwise delight in performing. It is entirely Freudian, entirely sexual. You are free to despise it, but keep in mind these are some of the emotions that have built this fandom you seek to defend.

I'm sorry for not using weasel-words, but I prefer to speak rather directly, so please keep that in mind.

TL;DR VERSION: I'm a monster. :V


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Shadow said:


> And it's even sexier when humans eat humans... :> ...Wait...


Heh XD What does human tastes btw?


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> Heh XD What does human tastes btw?



It differs from person to person.


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## Whitenoise (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> No its awesome when human eat animals :twisted:



No it's terrible you are an embarrassment to the fandom eating animals is wrong true furries would never dream of doing such a thing but it's OK to fuck animals because it's not rape if they can't say no :V .


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## Kipple (Mar 29, 2009)

Shadow said:


> It differs from person to person.



In general, I've been told it tastes like pork but a little sweeter and fattier.


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

ETC said:


> In general, I've been told it tastes like pork but a little sweeter and fattier.



I think you're thinking of the U.S. brand.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Shadow said:


> It differs from person to person.


So i guess their diet change their taste?




Whitenoise said:


> No it's terrible you are an embarrassment to the fandom eating animals is wrong true furries would never dream of doing such a thing but it's OK to fuck animals because it's not rape if they can't say no :V .


Hmm if they cant say no, they cant say yes either, so its rape?


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## Kipple (Mar 29, 2009)

Shadow said:


> I think you're thinking of the U.S. brand.


Cannibals have called human meat "long pork." I'm going with the cannibals on this one.

Long pork is looooooong.


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

ETC said:


> Cannibals have called human meat "long pork." I'm going with the cannibals on this one.
> 
> Long pork is looooooong.



Dude, a longcat reference? :<


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## Kipple (Mar 29, 2009)

Shadow said:


> Dude, a longcat reference? :<


Yeah, I'm just going to apologize profusely for that. I'm super-drunk right now. :/


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## Whitenoise (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> Hmm if they cant say no, they cant say yes either, so its rape?



Bawwwww stop fursecuting me with your logic it's not immoral me and my dog are in love she only tries to escape because she knows about all the terrible things all those heartless judgemental mundains would say if they found out about our relationship and she wants to spare me the emotional anguish D: .


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Bawwwww stop fursecuting me with your logic it's not immoral me and my dog are in love she only tries to escape because she knows about all the terrible things all those heartless judgemental mundains would say if they found out about our relationship and she wants to spare me the emotional anguish D: .



You just broke a blood vessel in my mental eye!


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## PriestRevan (Mar 29, 2009)

Then tell them to stop being furries. It wont work, but you can try.


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Bawwwww stop fursecuting me with your logic it's not immoral me and my dog are in love she only tries to escape because she knows about all the terrible things all those heartless judgemental mundains would say if they found out about our relationship and she wants to spare me the emotional anguish D: .


Hay you forgot your ":V" on this one bawwwwwingzoorapingfur!! xD


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## Whitenoise (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> Hay you forgot your ":V" on this one bawwwwwingzoorapingfur!! xD



I'm not about to sully my precious :V by attaching it to my 100% accurate depiction of the average furfag :V .


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> I'm not about to sully my precious :V by attaching it to my 100% accurate depiction of the average furfag :V .



:O


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## Tewin Follow (Mar 29, 2009)

ConFuzzled '08 served a ton of meat at the BBQ/meals.

I bumped into two veggie furs wondering what to do, but everyone else (including myself) were lined up to nom t3h animal products. 

I guess it's all lulz-worthy. 

Veggies often have no idea what would happen to the meat animals if released into the wild.


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## Toaster (Mar 29, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive.
> The reason being that they have such little concern for real life animals. I have seen people on this board defending and validating bullfighting, animal testing and disecting animals in school. I'm not saying anyone has to change Their mind, I'm saying that I think furries should have some concern for animals. And if you don't, I don't think being a furry is right for you.



fixed

also: Lol I'm ot a furry. Best thread ever.


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## Irreverent (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> No its awesome when human eat animals :twisted:



It sure is.  And it needs to be said again, "There's room for all gawds creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes."  Vegetables are what "the food" eats. :twisted:

OP: its quite possible to be concerned about animals and still be an omnivore. Although I prefer to honour my fresh killed food with a nice Merlot and some caramelized-onions (instead of sweet grass and tobacco) the sentiment is the same.


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## PassionFluxX (Mar 29, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> No it's terrible you are an embarrassment to the fandom eating animals is wrong true furries would never dream of doing such a thing but it's OK to fuck animals because it's not rape if they can't say no :V .


 

I love you.


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## Carenath (Mar 29, 2009)

OP: Being a furry, has nothing to do with having concern for animals. Its genreally zoo's that claim to proactive when it comes to animal welfare.

Im not a furry, (so the above point is also moot) I'm otherkin and as I stated on another thread, I am very much like my dragon alter-ego and how I see the world, humans and other animals, is tied into this.
I dont consider humans fundamentally different from any other animal on this planet. We evolved and became sentient (self aware etc), gaining intelligence to complement our basic instincts, but we are still animals ourselves.
I dont have an anthrocentric viewpoint either, I dont see humans as being the be-and-end-all that many believe the human race is.

I consider myself a predator, when Im hungry, I will 'hunt' down something to eat, and I mostly eat meat... I could go so far as to call myself a carnivore, save for the fact that I do eat some fruits as well. I dont think there is anything wrong with eating meat and I could care less what anyone thinks of me for it. I enjoy tucking in to a bloody steak, or a nice piece of fish, or chicken.

I dont go bawwing if a person gets killed by an animal, thats just nature to me. I go out of my way to kill wasps and flys if I see them in the house. I have no problems killing rats or mice if I see them inside the house, usually I trap them and let the cat eat them.

TL;DR Version: Fuck you, I'm dragon!


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## Wreth (Mar 29, 2009)

I used to use the excuse that animals eat meat and it's natural. But then i realised i am a human being with the intelligence to live without eating meat.I live in a society where i can easily survive without eating meat. I therefore see no reason to eat meat and 'it tastes good' is a very weak reason. If you can't give something up just because it tastes nice to eat then that's rather pathetic. I have recently become a vegetarian and i'm glad i have done so.


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## Darlem (Mar 29, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with eating meat. Personally I have given up beef since I joined FA. Sort of a little experiment on cannibalism and hypocrisy. It's not practical to give up meat entirely but I think its good practice not to eat Cousin Ricky.


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## X (Mar 29, 2009)

psychweasel said:


> this.
> also, i think it's a little ironic when people are furries and say they love animals so much, while sitting at a keyboard eating meat, soon to head out in a wool coat and leather boots.


may i remind you that a large sum of animals eat meat as well. there is nothing wrong with eating meat. meat is actually an essential part of the diet. i personally do not LOVE meat, but if i am offered it i will eat a hamburger or steak on occasion. though i mainly stick to chicken and fish.



psychweasel said:


> but then again, it's only the cute, fuzzy animals that deserve to be treated right. "foxes shouldn't be hunted! what? cows? forget cows, i love hamburgers too much to give that up."



ewww, cows are gross, if you have been around a cow for more than a minute you will quickly find out that they only eat, drink, and defficate, if you tap one on the side they will not react, they do not even stop eating if a HUGE LOUD tractor is right in front of them honking its horn. they have no survival instinct left.


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## Xipoid (Mar 29, 2009)

Call me heartless, but I do not see the value in limiting yourself in your diet simply to preserve the life of an animal (or more generally, I do not see the value in limiting your diet or yourself without direct cause).

I am only against the killing of an animal if there is no purpose behind its death. Otherwise, I cannot concern myself.



As for eating meat, I do it because I want to and it is conducive to my workout regime. I am not at all interested in doubling my intake of protein powders and creatine simply so I can eat vegetables at every meal. Not only so, the effects of everyone suddenly not eating meat has remained unclear and unverified to me. Not that I am actively searching, but when I do I encounter a lot of one-sidedness and disagreement.


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## LizardKing (Mar 29, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> My face at this topic --->  :|  Also, the only animals I care about are reptiles.



^

Beef for dinner and leather coat? Awesome.
Crocodile-skin handbag? :raeg:


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## wendyw (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm vegetarian and I still don't agree with this.

I do think that people in general should be more caring in the sense that pointless or obviously unneeded harm to animals is something that should be avoided, but I apply this to humanity in general. I can't say I would mind it if everybody turned vegetarian, but I don't expect such a thing to happen.

Also, as others have said, there are furries with carnivorous fursonas. They liken themselves to meat eating animals. Would it make sense for all of them to turn veggie?


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## WolvesSoulZ (Mar 29, 2009)

wendyw said:


> Also, as others have said, there are furries with carnivorous fursonas. They liken themselves to meat eating animals. Would it make sense for all of them to turn veggie?



Agree on this.


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## mlpard (Mar 29, 2009)

those are good rants to the point:

http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants/2rant-vegetarians.mp3
http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants/2rant-hunters.mp3

XD


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## Kranksty (Mar 29, 2009)

I eat both. More on the veggie side but I eat meat too.


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## mlpard (Mar 29, 2009)

I dont thing this discussion will ever result in a result..
I belive that both sides have several troutfull points.
vegetatians will be still proving that eating meat is bad those who eat meat will say that eating meat is absolutely OK.
But I have to admit that I eat less meat since I've joined the comunity. I never liked cow meat nor pig meat and mostly I eat chickens and fish... But I never eat those various fish salads and never tuna ones (Im VERY angry to people killing dolphins with fishing nets).  But a delicious peace of cheese is good think anyway.


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## Prect (Mar 29, 2009)

Animals fight eachother.

Just because you're furry, it doesn'ty mean that you go around everywhere loving things.

I mean... I hate cats o.o


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## Kranksty (Mar 29, 2009)

mlpard said:


> I dont thing this discussion will ever result in a result..
> I belive that both sides have several troutfull points.
> vegetatians will be still proving that eating meat is bad those who eat meat will say that eating meat is absolutely OK.
> But I have to admit that I eat less meat since I've joined the comunity. I never liked cow meat nor pig meat and mostly I eat chickens and fish... But I never eat those various fish salads and never tuna ones (Im VERY angry to people killing dolphins with fishing nets).  But a delicious peace of cheese is good think anyway.



I agree with the cow meat.
Although I do like  hamburgers that is about it for cow meat.
I don't do the pork thing either.
But I do like chicken and fish.


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## Darlem (Mar 29, 2009)

As the Chik-fil-a cows say:"eat mor chikin"
http://www.echoaustin.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/single-emc-cow.jpg


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

I'll just leave this here.


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> I agree with the cow meat.
> Although I do like  hamburgers that is about it for cow meat.
> I don't do the pork thing either.
> But I do like chicken and fish.




he he, this reminds me of the Pulp Fiction moment when "Vincent Vega" asked "Jules" about eating pig.


----------



## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

Zoopedia said:


> I used to use the excuse that animals eat meat and it's natural. But then i realised i am a human being with the intelligence to live without eating meat.I live in a society where i can easily survive without eating meat. I therefore see no reason to eat meat and 'it tastes good' is a very weak reason. If you can't give something up just because it tastes nice to eat then that's rather pathetic. I have recently become a vegetarian and i'm glad i have done so.




so you're not a furry?


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## Attaman (Mar 29, 2009)

A bit late, but in response to the "Don't need to eat meat":  It's true, but Vegetarians are six times more likely to suffer from brain shrinkage in their elder years than meat eaters.  And I want to remain lucid and coherent for as long as possible in my life.  There is nothing 'wrong' with eating meat.  The only issue is what type of meat you eat, and in how much quantity.


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## Elv02 (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm all for treating animals humanly, but common, I'm not going to stop eating meat. There's no reason that will ever appease a veggie who is trying to explain their reason to a meat eater, and vice versa. I mean, seriously here, eating meat does not mean that you hate animals, nor does it mean you are a cruel person. So why don't we all just move on and not try to bash people on what they eat.

As for the treatment of animals, there's no reason we can't try to treat them as kindly and humanly as possible before we kill them.


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## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 29, 2009)

I don't see, why everyone feels so guilty about eating meat. When these animals are set to be slaughtered, they have lived a complete happy life. Humans were created to be omnivores, Im not gonna change my diet, because of a bunch of hippies tell me to. For one, meat has protiens that vegetables don't carry, I'm not going to pop an ass amount of pills for you. I prefer to go with a vegetarian diet (not vegan), where I can eat lean meats (fish, chicken, turkey) instead. 

As I seen the arguements here ("animals eat animals"), this is the reason that Humans are top of the food chain. If it comes to it, we have to keep the animal populations down (if we like or not). That means, they gotta go. And we can't release are domestic livestock, they no longer can survive the wild. So let's put this ridiculous arguement behind us.

OP: I loved animals, way before I joined the fandom. I actually stumbled across this fandom, when I was looking at a career as a Zookeeper (which is what I wanna be). So yes, I love animals more than ppl.


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## Cronus616 (Mar 29, 2009)

I agree with OP. This is exactly the kind of crap I've seen from some furries, and it pisses me off. They shouldn't even be furries in the first place.



			
				Ark said:
			
		

> I don't see, why everyone feels so guilty about eating meat. When these animals are set to be slaughtered, they have lived a complete happy life.


Umm...no? They lived a horrible life, grown up in a facility under horrible conditions, treated cruelly and tortured.


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## Doubler (Mar 29, 2009)

I have no real problem with eating meat per sÃ©. I do try to limit my consumption and buy meat from controlled sources to prevent suffering on the part of the animal. The cost of the second pretty much means the first is a necessary consequence, though 



> If it comes to it, we have to keep the animal populations down (if we like or not). That means, they gotta go.


Wouldn't that be applicable to the human population as well? :-?


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## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 29, 2009)

Cronus616 said:


> Umm...no? They lived a horrible life, grown up in a facility under horrible conditions, treated cruelly and tortured.



... and I'm talking about farmers, and ranchers over here in the US. Not these facilities, where they cram them in cages and other bs.


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

WolvesSoulZ said:


> Heh XD What does human tastes btw?



A priest told me it was like coffie: it's an acquired taste.

he had quite the sense of humor.


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

Doubler said:


> I have no real problem with eating meat per sÃ©. I do try to limit my consumption and buy meat from controlled sources to prevent suffering on the part of the animal. The cost of the second pretty much means the first is a necessary consequence, though
> 
> Wouldn't that be applicable to the human population as well? :-?




Suffering on part of the animal?  They are catered to all the time, have all the food and growth hormones they can want, and before they suffer the effects of old age, they are humanely slaughtered.

there's no such thing as the "suffreing dead animals" because they are... well if you can't figure that out by yourself then you're likely to be not very competent operating a toaster.


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

PassionFluxX said:


> I love you.



i love them too.


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## Morroke (Mar 29, 2009)

So....furries with meat-eating fursonas sicken you because they eat meat in real life?

lolwhut?


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

Morroke said:


> So....furries with meat-eating fursonas sicken you because they eat meat in real life?
> 
> lolwhut?




exactly. it's like this argument is a train wreck, only it's fun to watch.


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## ArielMT (Mar 29, 2009)

I find amusing the argument that we should be torturing, caging, and mutilating plants instead.

Life feeds on life, always has and always will for as long as the Earth exists.  It's up to us as reasoning and tool-working beings to show proper respect for all life, including the lives we must take to nourish our own.  Admittedly, we as a species haven't done a bang-up job in that respect (being too focused on very-short-term economics), but some of us as individuals have.

But to suggest it as a requirement for being a furry?  A nice and noble goal, that, but it can't ever be a requirement any more than knowledge of basic world or national history is required to be a politician, or basic knowledge in a field is required to be a TV expert commentator.



volkcolopatrion said:


> I'll just leave this here.



Wrong thread, Jack.


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## Cronus616 (Mar 29, 2009)

Ark said:


> ... and I'm talking about farmers, and ranchers over here in the US. Not these facilities, where they cram them in cages and other bs.



Oh okay yeah, that's different. >.<
But facilities still exist in the U.S.


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## krisCrash (Mar 29, 2009)

I like the fantasy aspect of anthros, not so much the animal thing.. but yeah I'm probably not "qualified" to be a furry, but I honestly could not help laughing a little at the title.

About not eating/harming "cute" animals? Little chickens are super ulta fluffy cute, more than kittens and do not hiss at all.


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## ilrak (Mar 29, 2009)

I find cows, lambs, and chickens to be very cute ... but also very tasty.

Though, I'm not technically a furry (more a therian) ... I sort of think like my raven side would ... If it's convenient, and preferably meaty, then it will be eaten.


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## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 29, 2009)

Cronus616 said:


> Oh okay yeah, that's different. >.<
> But facilities still exist in the U.S.



I wish these place were shut down. Every one knows a happy cow = happy beef, and vice versa.


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## Kuro-chan (Mar 29, 2009)

Being a vegetarian is up to the person. I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not someone 'deserves' to be a furry.

I call myself furry because I love wolves and like to pretend that I am one from time to time. I'm not going to give up eating something that I'm rather fond of to fit in someone else's view of what a furry should or should not be.

EDIT - Although more along the lines of the OP, I don't agree with animal testing/dissection or what-have-you. But I still think that 'furry' is such a subjective term in the first place that no one should be dictating who should call themselves what.


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## BigPuppy_Stuart (Mar 29, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive.
> The reason being that they have such little concern for real life animals. I have seen people on this board defending and validating bullfighting, animal testing and disecting animals in school. I'm not saying anyone has to change it's mind, I'm saying that I think furries should have some concern for animals. And if you don't, I don't think being a furry is right for you.



And who are you to think you can dictate who can identify themselves as what.


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

Ark said:


> I wish these place were shut down. Every one knows a happy cow = happy beef, and vice versa.




uhh sure... the california cows are emaciated.

the cage and stable things are better indeed.


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## volkcolopatrion (Mar 29, 2009)

BigPuppy_Stuart said:


> And who are you to think you can dictate who can identify themselves as what.


finally

someone says it.


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## PriestRevan (Mar 29, 2009)

What's going on in this thread?


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## ADF (Mar 29, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> What's going on in this thread?



Looks like a furry actually declared more furry than thou, elitism FTL.


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## Attaman (Mar 29, 2009)

PriestRevan said:


> What's going on in this thread?



If you don't treat an animal as at least your peer, you aren't a Furry and don't deserve to be in the fandom.  That's basically summing up the OP's stance.


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## SnickersTheCat (Mar 29, 2009)

Good point :|. I mean I try and eat vegetarian when I can .


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## PriestRevan (Mar 29, 2009)

ADF said:


> Looks like a furry actually declared more furry than thou, elitism FTL.


 
Well, I'm not much of a furry, so he'd be right.


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## Whitenoise (Mar 29, 2009)

Not eating meat is far crueler than eating it, by not eating meat vegetarians promote tremendous unnecessary suffering on the part of prey species, they are terrible people :V .


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## SnowFox (Mar 29, 2009)

SnickersTheCat said:


> Good point :|. I mean I try and eat vegetarian when I can .



I've considered eating vegetarians but they'd probably be lacking in protein


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## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 29, 2009)

SnowFox said:


> I've considered eating vegetarians but they'd probably be lacking in protein



Try eating Vegans, there just as worse.


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## Ikrit (Mar 29, 2009)

i have a love for all animals and would never kill one
though i do eat meat...i respect who i am eating!


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## ADF (Mar 29, 2009)

Vegetarianism is not pro animal, animals get attracted to crop fields for food and shelter; which then get poisoned and killed during insecticide sprays and eventually harvesting. 

If you are a vegetarian you are not death free, the only difference is you do not consume what gets killed as a result of your diet. On your plate or rotting in a field, either way you look at it something has to die so you can live.

And with that said dragons tend to be seen as carnivorous, there shouldn't be a problem with me eating meat then right? Unless of course the people with the vegetarian argument also think we should only like herbivore animals?

Ridicules rules tact onto what should just mean a anthropomorphic animal fan.


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## Catte (Mar 29, 2009)

Ridiculous thread is ridiculous.

Every minority has it's variations when it comes to people within that minority, and it is pretty absurd when you try to instill your own requirements for the minority, and then belittling those who don't follow it to your liking. Poo on you.

But, for the sake of the topic, I try my best not to buy or use products that were obtained from the death of an animal, but, at most times it's too costly not to.
As for the meat, I love meat, and I'm not going to deny it, I also severely dislike vegetables, so my main part of my diet consists of meat.

And, shameful to admit, I do have a slight bias on animals, I love those fluffy creatures with the cute faces and beady eyes, but I do care about all animals to a point.

So.. Um, bleh, I'm done. Oh, yeah, poo on you.


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## Shadow (Mar 29, 2009)

If I remember correctly, MFF 08's con suite had different kinds of deli meat, as well as some other food I can't remember which was also meat.


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## Werevixen (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm a vegetarian because meat makes me deadly sick. :v


I still go huntin' for wabbits though.


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## krisCrash (Mar 29, 2009)

lazyredhead said:


> i have a love for all animals and would never kill one
> though i do eat meat...i respect who i am eating!



uhm
erm
those sentences do not match

would not kill
do eat

Does that mean you eat them alive? :grin:


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## Ikrit (Mar 29, 2009)

no i get them dead from the grocery, ever heard of one?


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## dietrc70 (Mar 29, 2009)

ETC said:


> The rituals of bullfighting, trophy hunting, fishing, and sports are testament to the glory of the animals we've evolved from, the celebration of the predation that's made humans into what they are today. It's a sublimation of the destruction we would otherwise delight in performing. It is entirely Freudian, entirely sexual. You are free to despise it, but keep in mind these are some of the emotions that have built this fandom you seek to defend.


 
Brilliant.  When I started studying reading books about foxhunting I realized that this was essentially a pagan religion of fox-worship.  There were elaborate rules, costumes, and rituals.  Foxhunters wrote poetry in praise of the fox, and wrote books on the proper ways to conduct a hunt, fox behaviour, psychology, and natural history, and how to encourage foxes to breed on their estates.  The whole ritual was both civilized and savage, human and animal.  Very furry, actually.


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## krisCrash (Mar 29, 2009)

Still kind of cruel to the foxes though! 

I'm not vegetarian, btw. I just like pointing out oxymoronic things <:3


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## Icky (Mar 29, 2009)

This might be a little late, but:
Humans aren't made to eat meat. Look at us*! Can you imagine trying to stalk and kill a pig or a cow with bare hands? We have no natural weapons, besides intelligence, and are more suited to eating plants.

Lets imagine for a second that all the cows and pigs in the world were released because all humans are vegetarian. How long do you think they'll survive in the wild?

*Im gonna be really pissed at the first person to claim that this doesn't apply to them, because theyre a wolf or a fox or whatever.


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## LizardKing (Mar 29, 2009)

icarus615 said:


> We have no natural weapons, besides intelligence



When you can make spears and shit, who needs natural weapons?

Intelligence is the greatest weapon of all.


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## Malredar (Mar 29, 2009)

Rytes said:


> does it help if i feel more sympathetic if a rat dies than a human?


 
I feel the same way, society mostly only contributes to itself, rather than the balance of nature like all other life does. Therefore, I beleive society is selfish and mostly worthless in the interest of the planet as a whole. I know there are societies such as the Eden project and everything, I'm not talking about those, as they are about supporting nature. The others are about bolstering humanity or money. (neither of which, IMO are needed, humanity is expanding too much as it is, and just look at the damage that money and greed  have caused)


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## Kaiit (Mar 29, 2009)

CBA to read through the whole thread so excuse me if I repeat something that's already said - just take this as me voicing my own opinion.

There's nothing wrong with animal dissection - our college freezer is packed full of animals that have died on the farm/in the animal care unit. I want to be a vet, to help animals, and the only way I'm going to learn is by cutting open dead ones.

This also brings me to my next point - animal testing. Cosmetics I don't agree on, I only use non-animal testing shampoo, but it is a necessity to test medicine. I want to be a vet to help animals - I need medicine to care for them be they pet, wild, farm, whatever, and the only way this medicine can come about is by the sacrifice of other animals.

Sheep shearing is not cruel when at UK standards. As I said, my college is a farming college so I have a lot to do with the farm animals - they are extremely well looked after, even the intensively farmed chickens are brilliantly cared for. There is a HUGE penalty for farmers that don't comply with what are incredibly strict animal welfare laws set out for them. Other European countries aren't nearly as good as the UK on animal welfare.

Meat eating is a necessity for many animals because they cannot synthesise taurine, an essential amino acid. Dogs and humans, although we can survive on a veggie diet, it isn't nearly as healthy. It is much harder to get the right balance of nutrients without meat in the equation. Having said that, most of the lardasses we see around today could benefit from not eating meat.

Iâ€™m a firm believer in, if you canâ€™t kill it yourself, donâ€™t eat it. 
  I donâ€™t like trophy hunting â€“ donâ€™t even get me started. Donâ€™t get me started on humans being tested on/killed either; people donâ€™t always like to hear my opinions. 

tl;dr â€“ I like to debate animal rights and give my opinion. Donâ€™t worry about it. Oh, and I donâ€™t see how people donâ€™t have the right to call themselves â€œfurriesâ€ just because they eat meat/wear leather/dissect animals : P


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## ADF (Mar 29, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> When you can make spears and shit, who needs natural weapons?
> 
> Intelligence is the greatest weapon of all.



Assuming you have the knowledge to make spears forehand. :wink:

Most people here wouldn't know what type of rock to use, where to find it and how to attach it to the stick. If thrown into a fight against a sufficiently threatening animal most people here wouldn't have a chance.

Intelligence doesn't mean jack if we don't have the knowledge or tools to utilize it, shame we don't have the benefit of both worlds.


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## LizardKing (Mar 29, 2009)

ADF said:


> If thrown into a fight against a sufficiently threatening animal most people here wouldn't have a chance



That's because they're fat lazy furries.

If not a spear, at least a club is easy enough to make.

Take branch/rock/bone/dildo. Hit things. Hurrah.


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## Attaman (Mar 29, 2009)

The reason every human doesn't have that knowledge is every human doesn't need it.  You can bet if we grew up in a society that required every person to have their own spear that everyone would be capable of making one.  Humans are also pack animals, another thing people seem to forget.  It wouldn't be one human rushing at a gazelle attempting to drag it down.  It'd be several springing an ambush which tires out the thing.

We're naturally _omni-_vores, not herbivores.  How else do you want to explain our canine teeth?  "We need the things to properly eat apples!"?


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## sobe (Mar 29, 2009)

i know its kinda weird to me too....


we're disecting frogs in school now, its realy gross >.> the stink drives me insane. but me an a freind get to do an online virtual disection, its alot better than the real thing, still looks all life like though, so kinda makes me all ewwy feeling when i do it >.> (doesnt like the sight of opened up peoples/animals >.<)

p.s


Werevixen 





I'm a vegetarian because meat makes me deadly sick. :v


--->I still go huntin' for wabbits though. 


i take that offencivly :\/


and im vegitarian too, cuz i dont like the taste of most meat, so decided just go full vegitarian, an save them all


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## sobe (Mar 29, 2009)

The reason every human doesn't have that knowledge is every human doesn't need it. You can bet if we grew up in a society that required every person to have their own spear that everyone would be capable of making one. Humans are also pack animals, another thing people seem to forget. It wouldn't be one human rushing at a gazelle attempting to drag it down. It'd be several springing an ambush which tires out the thing.

--->We're naturally _omni-_vores, not herbivores. How else do you want to explain our canine teeth? "We need the things to properly eat apples!"?<---
--------------------------------------

just cuz we have them doesnt mean they gota be used.


----------



## sobe (Mar 29, 2009)

This might be a little late, but:
Humans aren't made to eat meat. Look at us*! Can you imagine trying to stalk and kill a pig or a cow with bare hands? We have no natural weapons, besides intelligence, and are more suited to eating plants.

Lets imagine for a second that all the cows and pigs in the world were released because all humans are vegetarian. How long do you think they'll survive in the wild?

*Im gonna be really pissed at the first person to claim that this doesn't apply to them, because theyre a wolf or a fox or whatever.
__________________

some monkeys/apes who dont have claws or anything, like humans, kill animals for food, they use bramches and rocks to crush the skulls of the animal they want to kill. just sayin


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## Cronus616 (Mar 29, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Not eating meat is far crueler than eating it, by not eating meat vegetarians promote tremendous unnecessary suffering on the part of prey species, they are terrible people :V .



This is the dumbest thing I've heard all day.
It doesn't work that way...



sobe said:


> This might be a little late, but:
> Humans aren't made to eat meat. Look at us*! Can you imagine trying to stalk and kill a pig or a cow with bare hands? We have no natural weapons, besides intelligence, and are more suited to eating plants.
> 
> Lets imagine for a second that all the cows and pigs in the world were released because all humans are vegetarian. How long do you think they'll survive in the wild?
> ...



You're exactly right, but not many people agree, prepare to get flamed. =/


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## sobe (Mar 29, 2009)

yay flames  i mean.. owy >.<


----------



## sobe (Mar 29, 2009)

Originally Posted by *Whitenoise* 

 
_Not eating meat is far crueler than eating it, by not eating meat vegetarians promote tremendous unnecessary suffering on the part of prey species, they are terrible people :V ._
_------------------------_
_are you on crack.... _


----------



## Attaman (Mar 29, 2009)

Cronus616 said:


> You're exactly right, but not many people agree, prepare to get flamed. =/


Who would flame him?  He's saying animals use tools to kill other animals as well.  Only people I can think getting pissed off there are the "Baw animals > humans they never kill with weapons" crowd.


----------



## Henk86 (Mar 29, 2009)

Xipoid said:


> Call me heartless, but I do not see the value in limiting yourself in your diet simply to preserve the life of an animal (or more generally, I do not see the value in limiting your diet or yourself without direct cause).
> 
> I am only against the killing of an animal if there is no purpose behind its death. Otherwise, I cannot concern myself.



I agree on both points. Killing an animal with no purpose is wrong, but if it was used for food or some other useful purpose then I don't object to it personally.


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## Torrijos-sama (Mar 29, 2009)

OH MY GOD, GUIZE, ANIMALS ARE LIVING BEINGS.... HOW COULD YOU EVER EAT MURDER.... BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW......................................................................................................................................................................................................................

With that stated, I still dont see why a group of people with very odd tastes in the eyes of society are permitted to continue their actions, yet seem to hate everyone else for eating "Murder". Now, if eating meat is not natural, then why do so many animals do it? Because of SURVIVAL, and sometimes because of THEIR OWN CHOICE. Omnivores have the ability to eat whatever they wish to, and because of that, they choose to. We used to eat alot of meat and grain during the winter because thats what was available. Now I eat meat so that I do not have a shortage of Carnosine, and protein, and I eat liver so I get alot of vitamin A. Also, better levels of Iron, Phosphorus, B vitamins, and practically everything else. I like the taste of most meats, and I think cows, Pigs, and Chickens are nasty. Bred in farms, or even wild animals... they both look like shit. But they taste good. 

NOW FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS....


If animals were given rights, there would have to be laws for them to follow...
What if a Cow walks into traffic? What if a dog mauls a little child? Then they would have to be tried, and given some form of punishment, which would somehow be UNETHICAL, despite being completely fair from a legal standpoint for humans to do to humans. So... should we simply kill the animals, and then let humans, or whatever eat them? Perhaps, if it is a quick death. 

That is all I have to say about that.


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## Verin Asper (Mar 29, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive.
> The reason being that they have such little concern for real life animals. I have seen people on this board defending and validating bullfighting, animal testing and disecting animals in school. I'm not saying anyone has to change it's mind, I'm saying that I think furries should have some concern for animals. And if you don't, I don't think being a furry is right for you.


...who the Feck are you thinking Furries should worry about animals?


----------



## Wolfbound (Mar 29, 2009)

...Uh. First question, do you "vegetarians" consume animal products like dairy or eggs etc? 

Not to make you guys all feel like "wtf dur" but most vegetarians still consume animal by-products that were probably gained by "cruel unfurry loving" methods. People these days use the word "vegan" or "strict vegetarian" (more rarely now) to describe the lifestlye I think you're going for, you know, without animal products at all.

Vegan is generally the term you're going for if you do not consume any animal product. Carry on!

Oh and on topic: I agree a bit, that people should stop being heartless dickholes. But, at the same time, you can't expect everyone to be a vegan or some shit because we all "love animals" and have giant hearts.. . . . .I mean, most of us are "wolves" anyways. 

And you can never escape assholes, no matter where you go. =|


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## Panzermanathod (Mar 29, 2009)

As an omnivore I will eat veggies or meat. I won't give up meat because I have no desire to. 

Yeah, you can say that "Oh we don't need meat to live", but imagine the world, say, 500 years ago. I've yet to hear about vegetarianism from that long ago. You're lucky society today makes it easier to have a veggie diet. 

Meat only and Veggie only diets may have health risks. I personally see nothing wrong with eating meat.


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## HoneyPup (Mar 30, 2009)

Kaiit said:


> CBA to read through the whole thread so excuse me if I repeat something that's already said - just take this as me voicing my own opinion.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with animal dissection - our college freezer is packed full of animals that have died on the farm/in the animal care unit. I want to be a vet, to help animals, and the only way I'm going to learn is by cutting open dead ones.
> 
> This also brings me to my next point - animal testing. Cosmetics I don't agree on, I only use non-animal testing shampoo, but it is a necessity to test medicine. I want to be a vet to help animals - I need medicine to care for them be they pet, wild, farm, whatever, and the only way this medicine can come about is by the sacrifice of other animals...


I agree with everything you've said. 
I just wanted to point out one thing: you don't use animal tested shampoo...The only reason the company can say "not tested on animals" is because a previously made version or similar product was tested on animals. Therefore it is  unnecessary to test a newer soap. Therefore, the "dirty work" is already done. I personally think cosmetic products should be tested on the species they are made for. Human soaps only on human, dog shampoos on dogs, etc.

To the OP: furry is not defined whatsoever by what you eat. If someone want to eat more like their fursona, fine, but its never necessary.

Oh and I think cows are very cute, as well as very tasty.


----------



## Panzermanathod (Mar 30, 2009)

Yeah, if people didn't think cows were cute I wouldn't see the number of cow pics I've seen on FA.


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## Icky (Mar 30, 2009)

Wolfbound said:


> ...Uh. First question, do you "vegetarians" consume animal products like dairy or eggs etc?
> 
> Not to make you guys all feel like "wtf dur" but most vegetarians still consume animal by-products that were probably gained by "cruel unfurry loving" methods. People these days use the word "vegan" or "strict vegetarian" (more rarely now) to describe the lifestlye I think you're going for, you know, without animal products at all.
> 
> ...


Oh, no you didn't. *rips Wolfbounds face off through computer*

And anyway, my fursona is a raven, but I dont eat mice or rabbits. Why does that give wolves an excuse?


----------



## Carenath (Mar 30, 2009)

Zoopedia said:


> ...it tastes good' is a very weak reason. If you can't give something up just because it tastes nice to eat then that's rather pathetic. I have recently become a vegetarian and i'm glad i have done so.


Its a personal choice, people choose to eat what they like.



Cronus616 said:


> I agree with OP. This is exactly the kind of crap I've seen from some furries, and it pisses me off. They shouldn't even be furries in the first place.
> 
> Umm...no? They lived a horrible life, grown up in a facility under horrible conditions, treated cruelly and tortured.


And your attitude is the kind of crap that pisses me off. Holier-than-thou furries who think the rest of us should be just like you. That just because someone is a furry they have to give up eating meat, consuming or using anything else that is sourced from, or tested on, animals. Im sorry to burst your bubble, but not everyone shares your particular viewpoint. I want to eat meat, because I like the taste, I choose to eat it because I have the intelligence to make that choice.

And for the record, farming and food production standards in Europe, are far superior to the US. Where I grew up, many people are dairy farmers, they breed dairy cows, the bullcalves are raised and sold for slaughter, I can tell you, those animals live happy lives, they dont have to deal with any of the crap most people have to live with on a day-to-day basis.


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

Cronus616 said:


> This is the dumbest thing I've heard all day.
> *It doesn't work that way...*



If you understood anything at all about nature you'd know that it does, then again I suppose it's unreasonable to expect furries to know anything about nature, it's not like you people ever go outside :V .



sobe said:


> are you on crack....



No, also you seem to be having some difficulty with quotes, do you know how to use them :V ?


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

Whitenoise you're not allowed to be a furry because you're mean :[


----------



## Icky (Mar 30, 2009)

Placebo said:


> Whitenoise you're not allowed to be a furry because you're mean :[


My thoughts exactly. How have you managed to not get banned?
[:V] <===Whitenoise in a soundproof box


----------



## Yula-XII (Mar 30, 2009)

To throw in some cents.. i can't let my furriness come before ethical issues, for one yes i eat meat.. im a student i eat whats cheap and don't have time to cook constructively, saying that.. i enjoy eating meat.. and me not eating it isn't going to stop anything. Although animal testing is a lot of the time cruel, it still has created innumable things that help a lot of people.. i'm pretty sure everyone in here knows a diabetic..

although most blood sports are pretty pointless i'll give you that.


----------



## Shadow (Mar 30, 2009)

icarus615 said:


> My thoughts exactly. How have you managed to not get banned?
> [:V] <===Whitenoise in a soundproof box



He was halfway there at one point.


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

Placebo said:


> Whitenoise you're not allowed to be a furry because you're awesome



Fixed :V .



icarus615 said:


> My thoughts exactly. How have you managed to not get banned?
> [:V] <===Whitenoise in a soundproof box



The mods will never ban me, it's because I'm adorable :V .

Also I am an infinite-bandwidth signal, having power at all frequencies. The total power of such a signal is infinite, therefore your box does nothing :V .


----------



## Panzermanathod (Mar 30, 2009)

I genuinely enjoy Whitenoise's presence.


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

icarus615 said:


> Oh, no you didn't. *rips Wolfbounds face off through computer*
> 
> And anyway, my fursona is a raven, but I dont eat mice or rabbits. Why does that give wolves an excuse?



Everyone has to act like their fursonas and eat only what their fursonas eat, it's the rules guy :V .



Panzermanathod said:


> I genuinely enjoy Whitenoise's presence.



:]


----------



## Icky (Mar 30, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Everyone has to act like their fursonas and eat only what their fursonas eat, it's the rules guy :V .


Ok then, so you would starve?

And Im surprised you didn't comment on my leavin the top and bottom off of the box.


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

icarus615 said:


> Ok then, so you would starve?
> 
> And Im surprised you didn't comment on my leavin the top and bottom off of the box.



How do you know what my fursona eats :V ?


----------



## Panzermanathod (Mar 30, 2009)

I thought it ate CAPS.


----------



## Icky (Mar 30, 2009)

...its in your signature


----------



## Skullmiser (Mar 30, 2009)

I know a vegetarian, I talk about star trek to her, and I lend her movies. She was happy that in the future we would eat meat, but it wouldn't be from animals. She was referring to pattern replications. I had to tell her though that Captain Picard kept his own private stock of caviar, because he felt the replicators did not do them justice. It was very sad.


----------



## Verin Asper (Mar 30, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Fixed :V .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


actually they realize you being here is the reason the forum is still around...once you are banned the forum dies


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

Panzermanathod said:


> I thought it ate CAPS.





icarus615 said:


> ...its in your signature



I DON'T EAT CAPS I SPIT THEM AT PEOPLE LIKE A COBRA EXCEPT INSTEAD OF VENOM IT'S OBNOXIOUS POSTS ON INTERNET FORUMS :V .


----------



## Panzermanathod (Mar 30, 2009)

Well, then, based on the picture in the sig you also eat the greater of 2 things.


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

Panzermanathod said:


> Well, then, based on the picture in the sig you also eat the greater of 2 things.



Exactly :V .


----------



## Telnac (Mar 30, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive.


Oh, here we go.  If being a fur requires me to pull my brain out of my skull and join the ranks of the hypocrites at PETA... then I guess I'm not a fur.

However, I don't see things quite the same way you seem to.  I understand that we live in a place I like to call reality.  And in reality, there are often drugs that hold great promise... but we don't know if they're toxic or not.  Inject a volunteer, or inject a mouse?  And when news of dead volunteers makes the volunteer pool wash up, who do we inject next?

And in reality, people need to cut up cadavers to understand the basics of how we're all put together.  I utterly hate this fact, and if they told me to kill a live frog & cut it up, I'd say no.  But they didn't.  They brought me a fetal pig that likely met his end when his mother was turned into bacon.  Was I comfortable with it?  No, but I can accept things for what they are.  I did the assignment.

Likewise, I eat meat.  Would I hunt & kill my own prey?  Not unless I'm starving.  Will I pay someone to kill & butcher the animal for me?  Happily.  Am I a hypocrite?  No.  I can accept the fact that the world isn't a pleasant place or even a particularly fair one.  If they could grow all my meat in a vat & charge me a price for it that wouldn't bankrupt me, I'd happily eat this "kill free" meat exclusively.  I don't like the fact that animals have to die so that I can eat meat.  But I can accept the fact that the human body is designed to eat meat and rather than try to counteract that design by being a vegetarian, I've chosen to remain an omnivore... just as my body's designed.

But one thing I cannot accept is a holier-than-thou person preaching to me about how horrible I am because of my sinful ways.  It doesn't matter if you're a Southern Baptist minister or a fur on a crusade.  It doesn't matter if I'm eating a big, juicy genetically modified veal steak or having wild sex with my two girlfriends & one of their boy toys, my sins are between me and God alone.  It's none of your business.


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Well put. 

I agree with you.
Things got to eat something or starve and die.
That is just how thinigs are.



Telnac said:


> Oh, here we go. If being a fur requires me to pull my brain out of my skull and join the ranks of the hypocrites at PETA... then I guess I'm not a fur.
> 
> However, I don't see things quite the same way you seem to. I understand that we live in a place I like to call reality. And in reality, there are often drugs that hold great promise... but we don't know if they're toxic or not. Inject a volunteer, or inject a mouse? And when news of dead volunteers makes the volunteer pool wash up, who do we inject next?
> 
> ...


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> Fixed :V .


See now that's just mean you meanie >:[


----------



## NightWolf714 (Mar 30, 2009)

I like animals, both alive and dead. Yes, they are cute. They also give me food, clothing, and other nessecities. I believe that animals were put here for us to use. Yes, we must take care of them, but we are still allowed to kill them as long as it is for a purpose and done wisely. 

So, yeah, sorry if the chicken I had last night was your cousin, but he was tasty after being deep fried.


----------



## PaulShepherd (Mar 30, 2009)

Well, to defend myself, I like observing wildlife and take care of my dog, and also am against animal testing and stuff like that. I mean, the product is for humans, so THEY should try it, and not creatures that do it for us. 

Sadly, my dad is a hunter, and he sometimes wants me to take a few shots or go hunting with me. I would never touch a gun in my life, and there are enough hunters out there, so why the hell should I go? Well, yeah, I eat meat, but mostly beef and chicken.


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

Cronus616 said:


> I agree with OP. This is exactly the kind of crap I've seen from some furries, and it pisses me off. They shouldn't even be furries in the first place.
> 
> Umm...no? They lived a horrible life, grown up in a facility under horrible conditions, treated cruelly and tortured.




ARJGHGHDHSKDK!!!

It's that PETA-esque bullshit that reigns supreme.  It drives me absolutely batty.  No, they did not grow up under horrible living conditions, nor were they tortured.

Know why?  Because stressed animals simply do not produce.  Do you know what long-term stress does?  It keeps animals from growing properly.  It allows them to get sick easier, and they won't eat as much as they would if they weren't stressed.  A farmer's worst nightmare is to have their animals not growing because they're stressed out and focused on survival instead of growing.  It cuts profits down, and if they're under contract, a company is going to be breathing down their neck.

Large scale facilities offer food, shelter, and are often regulated to ensure that the animals are growing properly and on schedule. If any farmer is stupid enough not to take good care of his/ her animals, then they are shooting themselves in the foot.

If growing my own food, killing my own chickens, and working in the poultry industry makes me not a fur, then I'm A-OK with that.  I'd rather not be associated with a group that sees it terrible to eat meat, but ok to screw their dog.  Because that doesn't mess with their mental health or anything.

/rant


----------



## Whitenoise (Mar 30, 2009)

Taasla said:


> Voice of reason



You are by far the most well spoken lawn chair I've ever encountered D: , hopefully your post will clear some of the stupid out of this thread :V .


----------



## Tycho (Mar 30, 2009)

PEOPLE WHO THINK PEARLS ARE PRETTY AND LIKE TO WEAR THEM SHOULD WORSHIP OYSTERS!


----------



## FoxyMcCloud (Mar 30, 2009)

I personally think it's wrong to condemn someone based on extremes.  Is a nature-lover not allowed to write on paper, or use their nation's monetary unit?

Personally I eat meat; my philosophy being that the animal(s) is raised to be used to feed people, so my eating it won't be letting it's death be in vain.  I eat poultry, fish, and pork on a regular basis.  I sometimes eat beef.  Sometimes I eat more exotic foods as well.  That doesn't make me feel as though I'm any less of a furry for it.

As for clothing choices I do conciously make an effort to wear either synthetic fibers or cotton grown from cotton plants rather than from sheep.

I really feel that the original post here took his ideals to the extreme; people do put thought into what they do with their lives, even if it doesn't seem that way to the naked eye.

Though, admittedly, if I ever see a fursuiter proudly proclaiming that his fursuit is 100% real fur I will most likely find a can of spray paint or something =p  Chain me to him in protest! ... Wait, he might like it! XD


----------



## Zanzer (Mar 30, 2009)

:V I'll stick to my meat thank you.

<---Reaction to OP post


----------



## Werevixen (Mar 30, 2009)

Stop eating plants, because that shit is 98% genetically identical to any animal. Thus you're killing it, thus you're a murderer.

STARVE, PUSSY BAGS!


I'm a furry no matter what you dysfunctional environmental drones say, but I believe in natural selection, even if we're overdoing it a little bit. Animals are mistreated, yeah. People are being mistreated too, grass is being trampled, and the sky is being polluted, whooptee-fucking-do. If you want to be an anal enviro-slave, do it right and kill yourself with starvation and/or excessive guilt.


/rant


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

If I ever see you I'll chain you to me. Haha

And I agree with you 



FoxyMcCloud said:


> I personally think it's wrong to condemn someone based on extremes. Is a nature-lover not allowed to write on paper, or use their nation's monetary unit?
> 
> Personally I eat meat; my philosophy being that the animal(s) is raised to be used to feed people, so my eating it won't be letting it's death be in vain. I eat poultry, fish, and pork on a regular basis. I sometimes eat beef. Sometimes I eat more exotic foods as well. That doesn't make me feel as though I'm any less of a furry for it.
> 
> ...


----------



## FoxyMcCloud (Mar 30, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> I'm a furry no matter what you dysfunctional environmental drones say, but I believe in natural selection, even if we're overdoing it a little bit. Animals are mistreated, yeah. People are being mistreated too, grass is being trampled, and the sky is being polluted, whooptee-fucking-do. If you want to be an anal enviro-slave, do it right and kill yourself with starvation and/or excessive guilt.


 
A bit of an extreme and harsh way to put it, but I agree with the basic point he's making.  Except for the part about killing yourself.  Totally not for that :<



Kranksty said:


> If I ever see you I'll chain you to me. Haha
> 
> And I agree with you


 
Rawr, is that a threat or a promise ^_~


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

It's a promise... But now I have to go and get some chains now  haha



FoxyMcCloud said:


> Rawr, is that a threat or a promise ^_~


----------



## FoxyMcCloud (Mar 30, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> It's a promise... But now I have to go and get some chains now  haha


 
Oh, some light bondage will do.  Some silk ropes, maybe some LEATHER to bind me with (make sure it's a synthetic leather, such as PVC though, or OP'll go nutcase on us) ...

... anywho, had to be a perv for this post cuz it marks my 69th XD

*hugs Kranksty*

Now then, back on topic *thwaps the thread*


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok makes notes on my pad. 
Fa...errr thwaps forums too.


----------



## Verin Asper (Mar 30, 2009)

I hate the OP already, specially to think Furries suppose to be "protect the animals" type of folks...personally I can fucking wait when we kill off this planet


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 30, 2009)

uh-oh, something yiffy is about go on here ;3


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Desume Crysis Kaiser said:


> I hate the OP already, specially to think Furries suppose to be "protect the animals" type of folks...personally I can fucking wait when we kill off this planet


 
I am not really fond of the envirementalist either.
You come on my property saying we gotta kick you out cuzz there is some damned endangered snail living on my property.

My answer to them is a .45 caliber gun to there head. Blam blam.


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Ark said:


> uh-oh, something yiffy is about go on here ;3


 
Is that you opting into or out of the yiff pile?
Haha XD


----------



## Kanin (Mar 30, 2009)

I care about animals, against animal testing, all that. But I will not give up meat, I mean, for one thing, we're meant to eat it, we're omnivores. Even most herbivores eat some meat.


----------



## Aden (Mar 30, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> My answer to them is a .45 caliber gun to there head. Blam blam.



I'm sure it is.


----------



## Tycho (Mar 30, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> I care about animals, against animal testing, all that. But I will not give up meat, I mean, for one thing, we're meant to eat it, we're omnivores. *Even most herbivores eat some meat*.



lol wut


----------



## Verin Asper (Mar 30, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> I am not really fond of the envirementalist either.
> You come on my property saying we gotta kick you out cuzz there is some damned endangered snail living on my property.
> 
> My answer to them is a .45 caliber gun to there head. Blam blam.


I would rather have them move the damn snail then again when they kick me off my land...I would love they accidently killed the snail in the process


----------



## Kanin (Mar 30, 2009)

Tycho said:


> lol wut


 
Yeah, there called herbivores because there primary diet is plants, and most of the meat that herbivores do eat, are bugs.


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> I care about animals, against animal testing, all that. But I will not give up meat, I mean, for one thing, we're meant to eat it, we're omnivores. Even most herbivores eat some meat.



Wait, what?

Are you talking about the deer that eat birds and/or the cows that ate chickens?  Because in those cases, the animals were starving/ had a deficiency and were filling it by eating the only source available to them.  They don't eat meat because it's yummy, they're doing it for survival.  Just like certain animals will seek out different edible objects to keep themselves alive.


----------



## Tycho (Mar 30, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> Yeah, there called herbivores because there primary diet is plants, and most of the meat that herbivores do eat, are bugs.



Bugs != meat

Creatures that eat insects are called insectivorous.  They are distinct from both carnivores and herbivores.  Any consumption of insects by herbivores is likely accidental.


----------



## Irreverent (Mar 30, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> Yeah, there called herbivores because there primary diet is plants, and most of the meat that herbivores do eat, are bugs.



Ah....no.  Not taxomically correct.   There are some insectivores that are herbivorous but not enough to be considered true omnivores.  There are also carnivores that will eat grasses, but not enough to make them herbivorous or omnivorous.

pro-tip:  Fire Fox's spell checker is better than I thought, even if it doesn't understand "taxomically."


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 30, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> Is that you opting into or out of the yiff pile?
> Haha XD



Into *zwing* :3


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Pounces Ark.
Fap fap fap xD
Hahaha


----------



## Kanin (Mar 30, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> Ah....no. Not taxomically correct. There are some insectivores that are herbivorous but not enough to be considered true omnivores. There are also carnivores that will eat grasses, but not enough to make them herbivorous or omnivorous.
> 
> pro-tip: Fire Fox's spell checker is better than I thought, even if it doesn't understand "taxomically."


 
That's basically what I said, I'm just bad at explaining at times.


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 30, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> Pounces Ark.
> Fap fap fap xD
> Hahaha



This feels naughty ^///^

There's always more room.


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Yea sorry I have a dirty mind. Heh


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

Ark said:


> I don't see, why everyone feels so guilty about eating meat. When these animals are set to be slaughtered, they have lived a complete happy life. Humans were created to be omnivores, Im not gonna change my diet, because of a bunch of hippies tell me to. For one, meat has protiens that vegetables don't carry, I'm not going to pop an ass amount of pills for you. I prefer to go with a vegetarian diet (not vegan), where I can eat lean meats (fish, chicken, turkey) instead.
> 
> As I seen the arguements here ("animals eat animals"), this is the reason that Humans are top of the food chain. If it comes to it, we have to keep the animal populations down (if we like or not). That means, they gotta go. And we can't release are domestic livestock, they no longer can survive the wild. So let's put this ridiculous arguement behind us.
> 1 sorry im a little late on the discussion but this is completely false
> ...


----------



## Darlem (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> 1 sorry im a little late on the discussion but this is completely false
> we raise the animals and keep them in encounters so they cant get away
> 2 were actually on the bottom of the food chain if we didnt have guns considering we are very weak compared to other animals if we didnt have guns the animals would be eating us


I disagree with guns being the main reason for humans being the top species. I believe its intelligence that made us the dominant species. The use of tools.


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

We're naturally _omni-_vores, not herbivores. How else do you want to explain our canine teeth? "We need the things to properly eat apples!"?[/quote]

by the way all mammals have insisors, canines,pre-molars, and molars
it


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

We're naturally _omni-_vores, not herbivores. How else do you want to explain our canine teeth? "We need the things to properly eat apples!"?[/quote]

by the way all mammals have insisors, canines,pre-molars, and molars
it depends on how theyre grouped


----------



## Kaiit (Mar 30, 2009)

Darlem said:


> I disagree with guns being the main reason for humans being the top species. I believe its intelligence that made us the dominant species. The use of tools.



^Yes

Also, we keep animals in enclosures because we have the intelligence to exploit them. It may not sound nice but it's true, and the rest of the animal kingdom would do exactly the same if they had the intelligence.

(Actually, there are some species of inverts that farm, but I forget which ones exactly.)


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

if you could make the tools by all means use it but if u just by it dont


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

also if u just keep animals in the cages youre not even working 2 get the food


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

Kaiit said:


> ^Yes
> 
> Also, we keep animals in enclosures because we have the intelligence to exploit them. It may not sound nice but it's true, and the rest of the animal kingdom would do exactly the same if they had the intelligence.
> 
> (Actually, there are some species of inverts that farm, but I forget which ones exactly.)



Ants can be farmers.  There are a few species that use aphids or butterflies.  They basically raise them for their own purposes.  I believe the butterflies are released once they reach adulthood.



trez407 said:


> also if u just keep animals in the cages youre not even working 2 get the food



Um.  Animals in cages don't feed themselves.  The cages also have to be maintained, cleaned, and all that good stuff.  Chickens in battery cages?  Those cages are inspected daily, their waste is cleaned up, the environment is carefully monitored.  If it falls just a few degrees off, then you can have an impending disaster on your hands.  Just because they're in cages doesn't make them any less work for the farmers.


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

also there are animals with bigger cerebrums than us (meaning they are smarter than us) and were the only ones that farm animals like that


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

this thread has turned into sumthing completely different


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> also there are animals with bigger cerebrums than us (meaning they are smarter than us) and were the only ones that farm animals like that



We still aren't the only farming species.  None the less, it would not be practical in our current society for farming to no longer exist.


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

im not talking about regular farming im talking about the animal farming


----------



## Kaiit (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> also there are animals with bigger cerebrums than us (meaning they are smarter than us)



Actually, that cannot be proved.



			
				Taasla said:
			
		

> Ants can be farmers. There are a few species that use aphids or butterflies. They basically raise them for their own purposes. I believe the butterflies are released once they reach adulthood.



Ah, that's what I was thinking of - ants and aphids :]


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

hey taasla youre a guest?


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

Hm?  No, I'm a registered member.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

Kaiit said:


> Actually, that cannot be proved.


To further elaborate -- size does not matter. The amount of brain folds matter. The more folds in a brain, the more that can be packed in to a tiny space. And because humans are able to grow and think exponentially (that is, taking what was learned by other humans and improving on it) whilst animals cannot....well, I'll let you make your own judgments.

Also, the cerebellum has nothing to do with intelligence. It controls sensory perception, coordination, and motor control.


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 30, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Untrue. I have been vegetarian for 15 years.


Holy. Fucking. Shit.
You are missing out on a lot of protein.


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Actualy things like Fri-Chik, Soy-Proteins, Boca-Burgers all have high proteins.



StainMcGorver said:


> Holy. Fucking. Shit.
> You are missing out on a lot of protein.


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Mar 30, 2009)

volkcolopatrion said:


> I'll just leave this here.



GET


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 30, 2009)

jesusfish2007 said:


> GET



Leave your crappy drawing of *"V"* somewhere else Â¬_Â¬ *while crumbling it, and throwing it into the trash*


----------



## Attaman (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> 2 were actually on the bottom of the food chain if we didnt have guns considering we are very weak compared to other animals if we didnt have guns the animals would be eating us





			
				News clipping said:
			
		

> November 20, 2007 7:35 a.m. EST
> 
> Ishita Sukhadwala - AHN News Writer
> 
> ...



One-on-one, only a spear, took on and killed a lion.


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

[

Also, the cerebellum has nothing to do with intelligence. It controls sensory perception, coordination, and motor control.[/quote]

i said cerebrum not cerebellum


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> i said cerebrum not cerebellum


My bad, read it wrong. Either way, look at my previous post. Exponentially recording knowledge is something only humans are capable of.


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 30, 2009)

Attaman said:


> One-on-one, only a spear, took on and killed a lion.



It's been done before, by the legendary Gilgamesh. Who took down many lions, with a spear.


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

h


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

has anybody noticed how the topic has completely changed


----------



## trez407 (Mar 30, 2009)

Ark said:


> It's been done before, by the legendary Gilgamesh. Who took down many lions, with a spear.


 
well more power 2 him thenhe could hunt things and hav earned the rite 2 eat meat(i mean if u cant hunt it dont eat it)


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> We would actually be on the bottom of the food chain if we didn't have guns, considering we have very weak muscles compared to other animals. If we didn't have some form of metal tool that shoots small beebees or peices of metal, the animals would most likely be eating us.


Actually, no. Our earliest ancestors didn't have guns, or even spears. They had a rock, and they used it to crack open a tree to get bugs. And when we did invent spears and other sharp hunting tools, back in the ice age, I still think they thrived, let alone survived. Isn't that why we're here, and not Homo neanderthalensis?

Oh, and to any badass vegetarians who think animals are smarter than hoowmahnzs, the size of a brain is only a portion to how smart the said individual is, it's actually more like how many sulci (or, 'wrinkles,' to you morons out there) it has.



Kranksty said:


> Actualy things like Fri-Chik, Soy-Proteins, Boca-Burgers all have high proteins.


So, vegetarians will have to eat something with tofu or soybeans in it for a meal every day in order to get a healthy amount of protein?
Seriously, vegetarians and PETA extremists need to understand that someone killed that salad, too. The plant was alive, that's why it grew into lettuce.



trez407 said:


> has anybody noticed how the topic has completely changed



No, but I have noticed that _somebody_ needs Hooked on Phonics. =)


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

trez407 said:


> well more power 2 him thenhe could hunt things and hav earned the rite 2 eat meat(i mean if u cant hunt it dont eat it)



But I think your right to use the internet needs to be revoked.


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 30, 2009)

StainMcGorver said:


> Seriously, vegetarians and PETA extremists need to understand that someone killed that salad, too. The plant was alive, that's why it grew into lettuce.



Also, some ones carcass grew that lettuce, think about that for a moment.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

StainMcGorver said:


> Oh, and to any badass vegetarians who think animals are smarter than hoowmahnzs, the size of a brain is only a portion to how smart the said individual is, it's actually more like how many sulci (or, 'wrinkles,' to you morons out there) it has.


I just said that stop stealing >:[


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 30, 2009)

Placebo said:


> I just said that stop stealing >:[


Oh, you did? Hmm... let me check to see if you used the term, 'Sulci.'
Well, you didn't use the term, but you did say almost exactly what I said :<
My bad.



Ark said:


> Also, some ones carcass grew that lettuce, think about that for a moment.


Oh wait, you're right.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

StainMcGorver said:


> Oh, you did? Hmm... let me check to see if you used the term, 'Sulci.'


Does it mattteeerrrrr? >:[

But yeah I stick by my "exponentially expanding knowledge" as to why humans are smarter.


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

Ark said:


> Also, some ones carcass grew that lettuce, think about that for a moment.



Or that some plants can distinguish between family members.  Thus they aren't as lifeless as we thought.  Or that there are a good number of animals that are killed in the harvesting of crops.


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 30, 2009)

Placebo said:


> Does it mattteeerrrrr? >:[
> 
> But yeah I stick by my "exponentially expanding knowledge" as to why humans are smarter.


Not really, but oh well 

Oh hey, I just realized something.
Dead animals (and plants, but read above posts) are powering your car, your stove, and your furnace.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

StainMcGorver said:


> Oh hey, I just realized something.
> Dead animals (and plants, but read above posts) are powering your car, your stove, and your furnace.


But those animals have been dead for _years, _man. That's different then a recently-dead animal. :V


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 30, 2009)

Placebo said:


> But those animals have been dead for _years, _man. That's different then a recently-dead animal. :V


...But it's still a _dead_ animal.
And vegans can't use anything that came from a dead animal =D


----------



## Taasla (Mar 30, 2009)

StainMcGorver said:


> ...But it's still a _dead_ animal.
> And vegans can't use anything that came from a dead animal =D



Electricity comes from dead animals.  Most of our wires are coated in lanolin.


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 30, 2009)

Taasla said:


> Electricity comes from dead animals.  Most of our wires are coated in lanolin.


Okay, I see we're making progress here 
So, vegans, looks like you can't eat/use:
Plants,
Animals,
Any living thing in general,
Electricity,
Natural Gas
Your cellphone or telephone (telephone wires are coated in that stuff in post above me)
And some others I can't remember.


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 30, 2009)

I can't tell you how disappointed I am at you sheeple and your "Animuls do it so its ok and evolushun made it that way and if you dont your hed will shrink" rubbish.


----------



## Tycho (Mar 30, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> I can't tell you how disappointed I am at you *sheeple*



Stopped paying attention right there.  I'm *so* sick of that stupid fucking word.

Eerie's angling to get into the FAF Hall O' Fail alongside CyberFox and ShadowNazi, methinks.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 30, 2009)

Tycho said:


> Stopped paying attention right there.  I'm *so* sick of that stupid fucking word.


You're a terrible furson.

I'm sorry x3


----------



## cesarin (Mar 30, 2009)

psychweasel said:


> this.
> 
> also, i think it's a little ironic when people are furries and say they love animals so much, while sitting at a keyboard eating meat, soon to head out in a wool coat and leather boots.
> 
> but then again, it's only the cute, fuzzy animals that deserve to be treated right. "foxes shouldn't be hunted! what? cows? forget cows, i love hamburgers too much to give that up."



dont forget the famous ones of " a bark is a consent.. the dog totally wanted it" ( when raping their pets.. )


----------



## Attaman (Mar 30, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> I can't tell you how disappointed I am at you sheeple and your "Animuls do it so its ok and evolushun made it that way and if you dont your hed will shrink" rubbish.



Apparently the findings that B12 - best provided naturally via meats - decreases the chances of brain shrinkage in elder years is rubbish.

Though I'm glad to see I'm a "sheeple" for doing my own research and coming to a conclusion instead of listening to a member of a Furry community for all my life practices.


----------



## Morroke (Mar 30, 2009)

ITT: OP watched 'Earthlings' for the first time.


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Like I have said before I eat both and just saying that there is vegetarian foods that are high in proteins.

And I will say that there is good dishs on the meat side and on the veggie side.
It basicly comes down to how the meat or veggies are prepared that makes it good or a throw away dish.
I do cook also and have cooked both meats and veggies well.
And a home made veggie pizza that is surprisingly good.

I am not afraid to experiment with foods.




StainMcGorver said:


> Actually, no. Our earliest ancestors didn't have guns, or even spears. They had a rock, and they used it to crack open a tree to get bugs. And when we did invent spears and other sharp hunting tools, back in the ice age, I still think they thrived, let alone survived. Isn't that why we're here, and not Homo neanderthalensis?
> 
> Oh, and to any badass vegetarians who think animals are smarter than hoowmahnzs, the size of a brain is only a portion to how smart the said individual is, it's actually more like how many sulci (or, 'wrinkles,' to you morons out there) it has.
> 
> ...


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 30, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Apparently the findings that B12 - best provided naturally via meats - decreases the chances of brain shrinkage in elder years is rubbish.
> 
> Though I'm glad to see I'm a "sheeple" for doing my own research and coming to a conclusion instead of listening to a member of a Furry community for all my life practices.


Dosen't matter to me. I plan on killing myself before I get old anyway.


----------



## Tycho (Mar 30, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Dosen't matter to me. I plan on killing myself before I get old anyway.



Why wait?


----------



## Nylak (Mar 30, 2009)

Be nice, kiddies.


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 30, 2009)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2526891.stm

*Objective*: To investigate the association of dietary habits with mortality in a cohort of *vegetarian*s and other health conscious people. 
*Design*: Observational study. 
*Setting*: United Kingdom. 
*Subjects*: 4336 men and 6435 women recruited through health food shops, *vegetarian* societies, and magazines. 
*Main outcome measures*: Mortality ratios for *vegetarian*ism and for daily versus less than daily consumption of wholemeal bread, bran cereals, nuts or dried fruit, fresh fruit, and raw salad in relation to all cause mortality and mortality from ischaemic heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, all malignant neoplasms, lung cancer, colorectal cancer, and breast cancer. 
*Results*: 2064 (19%) subjects smoked, 4627 (43%) were *vegetarian*, 6699 (62%) ate wholemeal bread daily, 2948 (27%) ate bran cereals daily, 4091 (38%) ate nuts or dried fruit daily, 8304 (77%) ate fresh fruit daily, and 4105 (38%) ate raw salad daily. After a mean of 16.8 years follow up there were 1343 deaths before age 80. Overall the cohort had a mortality about half that of the general population. Within the cohort, daily consumption of fresh fruit was associated with significantly reduced mortality from ischaemic heart disease (rate ratio adjusted for smoking 0.76 (95% confidence interval 0.60 to 0.97)), cerebrovascular disease (0.68 (0.47 to 0.98)), and for all causes combined (0.79 (0.70 to 0.90)). 
*Conclusions*: In this cohort of health conscious individuals, daily consumption of fresh fruit is associated with a reduced mortality from ischaemic heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, and all causes combined. 

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full...an&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

You can chew on that.


----------



## Morroke (Mar 30, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2526891.stm
> 
> *Objective*: To investigate the association of dietary habits with mortality in a cohort of *vegetarian*s and other health conscious people.
> ...



So if vegetarians live longer...why do you want to off yourself earlier? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of lowering the mortality rate?


----------



## Kranksty (Mar 30, 2009)

Was thinking that myself too. Haha



Morroke said:


> So if vegetarians live longer...why do you want to off yourself earlier? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of lowering the mortality rate?


----------



## Shadow (Mar 31, 2009)

Morroke said:


> So if vegetarians live longer...why do you want to off yourself earlier? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of lowering the mortality rate?



MINDFUCK!


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 31, 2009)

Morroke said:


> So if vegetarians live longer...why do you want to off yourself earlier? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of lowering the mortality rate?


Let's put it this way: the option will be open to me should I change my mind.
Anyways, this is to that War Hammer guy who was whining about b12.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 31, 2009)

Just a question but _why _would you kill yourself? Do you not have anyone that cares whether you live or die? Because that isn't something to joke about.


----------



## Shadow (Mar 31, 2009)

Placebo said:


> Just a question but _why _would you kill yourself? Do you not have anyone that cares whether you live or die? Because that isn't something to joke about.



Call it partial trolling.


----------



## sobe (Mar 31, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> If you understood anything at all about nature you'd know that it does, then again I suppose it's unreasonable to expect furries to know anything about nature, it's not like you people ever go outside :V .
> 
> 
> 
> No, also you seem to be having some difficulty with quotes, do you know how to use them :V ?


 

hey, soz, prob lil over reacted  was mad cuz had uber bad connection an kept getin kicked off >.< better now though  (sorry again lol)


anyways, no, i was just having bad internet connection, so didnt wana wait for it to change pages to post, an just used quick post thingy. 

explain your reasoning please? (btw i resent the last statment, i go outside all the time, its nice out in the desert )


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 31, 2009)

Shadow said:


> Call it partial trolling.


Sorry...I'm just oversensitive to that particular issue. Bad memories and whatnot.


----------



## Shadow (Mar 31, 2009)

Placebo said:


> Sorry...I'm just oversensitive to that particular issue. Bad memories and whatnot.



I can sympathize. Don't really feeling comfortable leaving family and friends behind via suicide especially, when in all seriousness, death isn't really that funny.


----------



## Tycho (Mar 31, 2009)

That seems to be an affectation common amongst the angsty juvenile set - rather be dead than grow old.  Likely stems from contempt for their elders and an inability to deal with the fact that they will not be youthful and virile forever and ever.  That, and they also seem to throw the idea of suicide around far too liberally.


----------



## Gavrill (Mar 31, 2009)

Shadow said:


> I can sympathize. Don't really feeling comfortable leaving family and friends behind via suicide especially, when in all seriousness, death isn't really that funny.


Agreed. My best friend committed suicide in '06, and I'm still angsty about it...



Tycho said:


> That seems to be an affectation common amongst the angsty juvenile set - rather be dead than grow old.  Likely stems from contempt for their elders and an inability to deal with the fact that they will not be youthful and virile forever and ever.  That, and they also seem to throw the idea of suicide around far too liberally.


Yeah. Suicide is not a good thing, ever. Entire communities can be devastated by a single suicide. I've seen it happen.


----------



## Kipple (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2526891.stm
> 
> *Objective*: To investigate the association of dietary habits with mortality in a cohort of *vegetarian*s and other health conscious people.
> ...


Look at your post one more time. You cite an article that, in summary, says "Fruit is good for your heart!" A claim that no one disputes; of course it's good for you. Then you proceed to highlight any instances of vegetarianism regardless of context. Reading comprehension is turbo-rad.

Even if a carefully planned vegetarian diet was healthier than an average human diet, what does that really prove? If I stopped drinking booze and sodas, or smoking, I'd be healthier, yet I maintain my right to choose my vices. You haven't brought up any convincing argument that there's anything objectively reprehensible to exploiting animal life. I think certain flavors of cruelty are kind of sick from an aesthetic and psychological sense, but (responsible) consumption and hunting are among none of them. Life is short; life is not Nethack; I am going to indulge my "pathetic" and "inferior" notions of pleasure, thank you very much.


----------



## Nylak (Mar 31, 2009)

Vegetarians are cool, that's why. GO VEG. It's awesome, and it will make you awesome by association.

But seriously, I'm personally a vegetarian for religious reasons (the whole "killing is bad" thing). It also seems a little contradictory for me to be a veterinarian, having dedicated a vast majority of my life thus far to _helping_ animals, and then going home and grilling up a nice plate of murdered cow for my own sordid pleasure. ...Forgive the PETA-esque terminology.

I know I come off as a huge hypocrite considering that I work partially in the meat animal industry, but what can you do? Our nation's economy would completely bottom out if meat was suddenly somehow completely eliminated from society's collective diet, regardless of the moral and health advantages of living a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle.


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 31, 2009)

ETC said:


> Look at your post one more time. You cite an article that, in summary, says "Fruit is good for your heart!" A claim that no one disputes; of course it's good for you. Then you proceed to highlight any instances of vegetarianism regardless of context. Reading comprehension is turbo-rad.
> 
> Even if a carefully planned vegetarian diet was healthier than an average human diet, what does that really prove? If I stopped drinking booze and sodas, or smoking, I'd be healthier, yet I maintain my right to choose my vices. You haven't brought up any convincing argument that there's anything objectively reprehensible to exploiting animal life. I think certain flavors of cruelty are kind of sick from an aesthetic and psychological sense, but (responsible) consumption and hunting are among none of them. Life is short; life is not Nethack; I am going to indulge my "pathetic" and "inferior" notions of pleasure, thank you very much.


 
Or how about the article's title? "*Vegetarian diet 'cuts heart risk*"
I did not highlight anything. The search engine did.

And like I said, this is for the War Hammer guy! He was whining about health!


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Or how about the article's title? "*Vegetarian diet 'cuts heart risk*"
> I did not highlight anything. The search engine did.
> 
> And like I said, this is for the War Hammer guy! He was whining about health!



Attaman was just pointing out, that the B12 in meat can lower the risk of your brain from shrinking in age. There's plenty of positives to eating meat. Just ask your doctor, or do your own research. Meat isn't completely obsolete.


----------



## Nylak (Mar 31, 2009)

Ark said:


> Attaman was just pointing out, that the B12 in meat can lower the risk of your brain from shrinking in age. There's plenty of positives to eating meat. Just ask your doctor, or do your own research. Meat isn't completely obsolete.


 
Of course, B12 specifically is easily obtainable naturally in legumes and in fortified cereals and soy products, or even genetically altered fibrous vegetation.  Meat (or dairy/eggs) isn't the only source; vegans don't even have to take supplements for it.


----------



## Kipple (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Or how about the article's title? "*Vegetarian diet 'cuts heart risk*"
> I did not highlight anything. The search engine did.
> 
> And like I said, this is for the War Hammer guy! He was whining about health!


I read it. The IQ one is rather dodgy since it does little to examine environment. The second one is pretty valid. It cuts your cholesterol. That's fine if you've got bad control genes or if you've downed a steak every other day for ten years. But you've yet to acknowledge the problem is not with meat, there exist healthy people who eat meat rather often. 

The problems stem from poor monitoring and control. An mismanaged vegetarian diet will have its own array of problems, notably vitamin/amino acid deficiencies, just like a mismanaged omnivorous diet will bring heart disease/etc. Meat is an easy way to get a handful of amino acids that are comparatively difficult, though not impossible, to get as a vegetarian. In rural areas, especially, where some foods are outright unobtainable or expensive without special arrangements.

And I don't care about this War Hammer guy, you're in a public forum, I call them as I see them.


----------



## Bellini Tabloid (Mar 31, 2009)

Nylak said:


> Of course, B12 specifically is easily obtainable naturally in legumes and in fortified cereals and soy products, or even genetically altered fibrous vegetation.  Meat (or dairy/eggs) isn't the only source; vegans don't even have to take supplements for it.



I guess all depends on the quantities it holds of that protein, and vitamin. I sure don't want to eat 2 to 3 bowls of cereal to get my B12, yo.


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 31, 2009)

ETC said:


> I read it. The IQ one is rather dodgy since it does little to examine environment. The second one is pretty valid. It cuts your cholesterol. That's fine if you've got bad control genes or if you've downed a steak every other day for ten years. But you've yet to acknowledge the problem is not with meat, there exist healthy people who eat meat rather often.
> 
> The problems stem from poor monitoring and control. An mismanaged vegetarian diet will have its own array of problems, notably vitamin/amino acid deficiencies, just like a mismanaged omnivorous diet will bring heart disease/etc. Meat is an easy way to get a handful of amino acids that are comparatively difficult, though not impossible, to get as a vegetarian. In rural areas, especially, where some foods are outright unobtainable or expensive without special arrangements.
> 
> And I don't care about this War Hammer guy, you're in a public forum, I call them as I see them.


 Look, I never said people who eat meat are doomed to die early. I just pointed out the benifits vegetarian diet has has stated but the offical-looking web site.


----------



## Verin Asper (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Or how about the article's title? "*Vegetarian diet 'cuts heart risk*"
> I did not highlight anything. The search engine did.
> 
> And like I said, this is for the War Hammer guy! He was whining about health!


Yes we know that...and those who eat meat can regulate themselves, I gave up all meat BUT fish and Eggs. Thing is I opted to eat more Fruit than Veggies due to where I'm raised


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 31, 2009)

Ark said:


> I guess all depends on the quantities it holds of that protein, and vitamin. I sure don't want to eat 2 to 3 bowls of cereal to get my B12, yo.


 You know you need 3 bowls or is this your guestimate?


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Mar 31, 2009)

Desume Crysis Kaiser said:


> Yes we know that...and those who eat meat can regulate themselves, I gave up all meat BUT fish and Eggs. Thing is I opted to eat more Fruit than Veggies due to where I'm raised


 You may have known but the other guy didn't seem to.


----------



## Kilre (Mar 31, 2009)

This thread is very eerie.

In a bad way.


----------



## Xipoid (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, you can go ahead and stop right there.

Be aware that health is very complex. There is never a simple answer especially one that can be linked to a broad common factor (excluding things such as directly poisoning yourself). Numerous confounding variables appear in health that can skew the results. Some so much so that their effect to this day still remains unclear beyond broad generalizations.

Take it from me, the truth is no one knows for sure. Not me, not your doctor, not your nutritionist, not even your research scientists. They can all interpolate data and suggest what you should do from studies they have seen or information they have gathered, but it is still based on trends and averages. There is no health advice in the world that is just for you. There is no 100% certainty in health. We all do these things in good faith, and faith is not always rewarded.


----------



## Taasla (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> I can't tell you how disappointed I am at you sheeple and your "Animuls do it so its ok and evolushun made it that way and if you dont your hed will shrink" rubbish.



I went to college for my animal learnings.  C:  What about you?  PETA monthly?


----------



## Lobar (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> I can't tell you how disappointed I am at you sheeple and your "Animuls do it so its ok and evolushun made it that way and if you dont your hed will shrink" rubbish.



I dunno, your posting history leads me to suspect that you're already rapidly losing grey matter


----------



## Telnac (Mar 31, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> Actualy things like Fri-Chik, Soy-Proteins, Boca-Burgers all have high proteins.


Dear God no!  If I'm eating soy, I want it to look like soy or something that's normally made from soy.  Tofu is AWESOME... AS TOFU. Tofu-dogs?  Tofu-burgers?

Crimes against humanity.  And the planet.  And the Universe as a whole.


----------



## Attaman (Mar 31, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2526891.stm
> 
> *Objective*: To investigate the association of dietary habits with mortality in a cohort of *vegetarian*s and other health conscious people.
> ...



Chew on what?  That fruit, grains, and other plants are good for the body?

You article doesn't state vegetarianism.  Or, more accurately, it states 43% of the survey group was vegetarian.  It says nothing about the consumption of meat or it being detrimental to health.  Furthermore, look at the numbers of people who eat Raw Salad, Bran Cereals, Nuts and Dried Fruit.  All of their percentages are _less_ than 43%, meaning even if you want to argue it was _only_ in the Vegetarian group someone at those daily that there were people who _still_ did not eat either nuts, bran cereal, or the liking daily.

In addition to this, with only a 12.5% death number in the total survey group, more than 50% of the remaining people are _still_ not vegetarians.

To answer the B12 in Cereal question someone provided:  According to here, the average adult needs to eat 2.4mcgs of B12 daily, and absorb half of that.  While Malt-o-Meal and Total both provide this number easily enough in 3/4 a cup a day, cereals like Kellogg's Corn Flakes would require at least two servings per day in order to get the necessary amount.  The amounts provided in that link look nice (and are!) when looking at the daily amounts recommended, but if you look here you'll find that most meat products still provide more B12 for less consumed.

Basically:  If you're eating stuff like Kellogg's cereal each morning, you're better off eating meat / eggs / whatever to get the B12 than the two bowls of cereal.  However, if you're eating some of the _good_ stuff, you're not in quite as much need.

The issue is that neither link provides how beneficial it is to the consumer to eat extra B12 daily.


----------



## StainMcGorver (Mar 31, 2009)

Kranksty said:


> Like I have said before I eat both and just saying that there is vegetarian foods that are high in proteins.
> 
> And I will say that there is good dishs on the meat side and on the veggie side.
> It basicly comes down to how the meat or veggies are prepared that makes it good or a throw away dish.


Wait, so now you're a pickitarian?


----------



## Tyc_00n (Mar 31, 2009)

Guys, this drivel is becoming extremely annoying, so please stop.  OP was obvious troll-ing, so just leave it and walk away.  Please.


----------



## ForestFox91 (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't believe in bullfighting, dissection, or animal testing. Meat, controversial, but I still eat it. I mainly don't believe in the torturing of animals. Dissection I don't like, because I'm squeamish. If the animal is killed without pain, or humanely it's okay.


----------



## Vekke (Apr 1, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> No it's terrible you are an embarrassment to the fandom eating animals is wrong true furries would never dream of doing such a thing but it's OK to fuck animals because it's not rape if they can't say no :V .



Haha, I love you so much :>

Look okay, I am against factory farming but at this stage in my life I can't do much about where I get my meat. I'm a student who lives at home still, :|

Other than that, I have no qualms with eating an animal. If a fox can have its rabbit lunch, why should i be denied my cow :y

I eat mostly fake meat patties anyway though, just because I hate the gloop that happens when I cook beef.

when that beef is cooked for me though... i'm on it :>


----------



## Whitenoise (Apr 1, 2009)

Nylak said:


> Vegetarians are cool, that's why. GO VEG. It's awesome, and it will make you awesome by association.
> 
> But seriously, I'm personally a vegetarian for religious reasons (the whole "killing is bad" thing). It also seems a little contradictory for me to be a veterinarian, having dedicated a vast majority of my life thus far to _helping_ animals, and then going home and grilling up a nice plate of murdered cow for my own sordid pleasure. ...Forgive the PETA-esque terminology.
> 
> I know I come off as a huge hypocrite considering that I work partially in the meat animal industry, but what can you do? Our nation's economy would completely bottom out if meat was suddenly somehow completely eliminated from society's collective diet, regardless of the moral and health advantages of living a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle.



Sushi contains no meat, fish is a vegetable :V .



Vekke said:


> Haha, I love you so much :>



:3 .


----------



## Aden (Apr 1, 2009)

Tyc_00n said:


> Guys, this drivel is becoming extremely annoying, so please stop.  OP was obvious troll-ing, so just leave it and walk away.  Please.



Oh hi, you must be new here.


----------



## Slade (Apr 1, 2009)

We all know who you mean.

Priest Revan/Whitenoise.


----------



## PleasedAsPunch (Apr 1, 2009)

Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal. A big, gangly, omnivorous ape.

WHY DO PEOPLE FORGET THIS.


----------



## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal. A big, gangly, omnivorous ape.
> 
> WHY DO PEOPLE FORGET THIS.


This is a furry forum. :|


----------



## Whitenoise (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal. A big, gangly, omnivorous ape.
> 
> WHY DO PEOPLE FORGET THIS.



I've seen the rest of the picture you used for your avatar, and that's all I'm going to be able to think about when I see one of your posts... 

you are a very bad man D: .


----------



## PleasedAsPunch (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> This is a furry forum. :|



Holy crap man really I had no idea BOY DO I HAVE EGG ON MY FACE!


----------



## PleasedAsPunch (Apr 1, 2009)

Whitenoise said:


> I've seen the rest of the picture you used for your avatar, and that's all I'm going to be able to think about when I see one of your posts...
> 
> you are a very bad man D: .



God I love pumpkins.


----------



## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> Holy crap man really I had no idea BOY DO I HAVE EGG ON MY FACE!


Trying too hard?


----------



## Whitenoise (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> God I love pumpkins.



I'll never be able to look at them the same way again :[ . 

Also it's cool to see you here, you're a pretty awesome artist even though the dicks you draw scare the hell out of me for some reason :V .


----------



## PleasedAsPunch (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> Trying too hard?



Nah, simmer down. I ain't got no beef (lol ugh) with you.



Whitenoise said:


> I'll never be able to look at them the same way again :[ .
> 
> Also it's cool to see you here, you're a pretty awesome artist even though the dicks you draw scare the hell out of me for some reason :V .



Thanks man.  And that's WHY I draw them.

I figured I'd venture onto the forums because I can't sleep and things are too drama-ey elsewhere for me to tolerate atm.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> Nah, simmer down. I ain't got no beef (lol ugh) with you.


Alrighty. I'm tempted to go look at your art, but from the description Whitenoise gave....naaahh.


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## PleasedAsPunch (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> Alrighty. I'm tempted to go look at your art, but from the description Whitenoise gave....naaahh.



Yeah, it's just a gallery of wall to wall grotesque dongs.


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## Whitenoise (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> Alrighty. I'm tempted to go look at your art, but from the description Whitenoise gave....naaahh.



I was lying, there are no scary dicks, you can trust me, cats are very honest :V .


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> Yeah, it's just a gallery of wall to wall grotesque dongs.





Whitenoise said:


> I was lying, there are no scary dicks, you can trust me, cats are very honest :V .



_Someone _here is lying.

Edit: Dammit Whitenoise


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## Kanin (Apr 1, 2009)

PleasedAsPunch said:


> Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal. A big, gangly, omnivorous ape.
> 
> WHY DO PEOPLE FORGET THIS.


 
It's talking about other animals because most people think of them as lesser. *Kanin glares angerly at those people*


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## Vekke (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> Alrighty. I'm tempted to go look at your art, but from the description Whitenoise gave....naaahh.



compared to a lot of art on this site, shit's tame ;D


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## Gavrill (Apr 1, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> It's talking about other animals because most people think of them as lesser. *Kanin glares angerly at those people*


Well, they are dumber. :V


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## Werevixen (Apr 1, 2009)

Placebo said:


> Well, they are dumber. :V



I didn't see animals holding firecrackers on a dare yet.


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## Kanin (Apr 1, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> I didn't see animals holding firecrackers on a dare yet.


 
Lol

And just because we use tools and they don't doesn't make them dumber.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> Lol
> 
> And just because we use tools and they don't doesn't make them dumber.


I've yet to see an animal other than humans that records information through written language. And animals do stupid things all the time. Like monkeys that tease dogs. That can end very, very badly.


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## Kanin (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> I've yet to see an animal other than humans that records information through written language. And animals do stupid things all the time. Like monkeys that tease dogs. That can end very, very badly.


 
That's because they no the dog can't get them.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

Lord Kanin said:


> That's because they no the dog can't get them.


They don't _know _that for sure. They may think that, but a lot of teenagers think that the firecracker won't hurt when it goes off. That doesn't make their thoughts right.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 1, 2009)

Interesting brisking through these posts. I agree with those previous posts above me basicaly saying humans are just another animal on the planet. 

Personaly, i do eat meat, but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be furry. I don't agree with animal testing, but there is nothing i can do about it. I do dissagree with fox hunting because i saw it as absolutely pointless. I mean "they" don't actually kill the fox, the flamin dogs do, all the people do is ride a horse across the countryside, chasing a fox, allowing the dogs to rip it to shreds and then they just leave it there .

Only circumstance i accept hunting, is if the hunter plans to eat his kill. Only difference with cow, pigs, lamb etc, is that farmers do the killing and prepping for us. That said, i don't see why furr's who eat meat can't be furry.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

Just so it's made clear; yes humans are animals. Extremely intelligent animals that require much more stimulation than any other.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> I've yet to see an animal other than humans that records information through written language. And animals do stupid things all the time. Like monkeys that tease dogs. That can end very, very badly.



Humans do stupid things to, there is no difference. If anything i think alot of humans are much more dumb then animals.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

Next thing you know, you'll be saying that chimps think about the meaning of life.


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## Kanin (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm to tired to give an actual arguement right now.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> Next thing you know, you'll be saying that chimps think about the meaning of life.



Not inclineing that, but you did say animals do stupid things, and i said so do humans, which could mean anything from leaving the parking brake off in the car allowing it to roll into the next parked car, to dropping a ciggerette butt down the back of the sofa and burning the whole house down. Basicaly i am just clarifying a bit more to what i meant.

The only way i see humans as more inteligent to animals, is a small number of things such as, inventions, like transportation, electricity, and all the other mod cons of today. 

Come to think of it, i think we have simmilarities in our bahaviour to. For example, animals go foredging for food, in a way so do we, even if it is down to the nearest pizza house. Both humans and animals look for food, a home, a partner to amte with o.o, just, we go about it in different ways.

Well.......Thats my personal view on it anyway.


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## Gavrill (Apr 1, 2009)

Some people are unqualified to be humans. :V


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## Tycho (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> Next thing you know, you'll be saying that chimps think about the meaning of life.



Well, it's known that many animals are capable of being bored.  Boredom leads to introspection (sometimes).  While they might not be able to engage in abstract thought at anywhere NEAR a human level, one has to wonder if chimps or other fairly intelligent animals ever ponder things when bored.  We can't actually see what is going on inside their minds, only make educated guesses based upon outward behavior.

I can imagine a chimp or dolphin pondering a "what if I did Y instead of X?" scenario.  Such a thing could lead to an innovation in food gathering or tool use.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

RandyDarkshade said:


> Not inclineing that, but you did say animals do stupid things, and i said so do humans, which could mean anything from leaving the parking brake off in the car allowing it to roll into the next parked car, to dropping a ciggerette butt down the back of the sofa and burning the whole house down. Basicaly i am just clarifying a bit more to what i meant.





RandyDarkshade said:


> Humans do stupid things to, there is no difference. If anything i think alot of humans are much more dumb then animals.


Durhurr.



RandyDarkshade said:


> The only way i see humans as more inteligent to animals, is a small number of things such as, inventions, like transportation, electricity, and all the other mod cons of today.


What, no philosophy, religion, or abstract thought? 



RandyDarkshade said:


> Come to think of it, i think we have simmilarities in our bahaviour to. For example, animals go foredging for food, in a way so do we, even if it is down to the nearest pizza house. Both humans and animals look for food, a home, a partner to amte with o.o, just, we go about it in different ways.


I didn't say we weren't animals. I said we were smarter than them.


Tycho said:


> Well, it's known that many animals are capable of being bored. Boredom leads to introspection (sometimes). While they might not be able to engage in abstract thought at anywhere NEAR a human level, one has to wonder if chimps or other fairly intelligent animals ever ponder things when bored. We can't actually see what is going on inside their minds, only make educated guesses based upon outward behavior.


True, but there's no evidence of animal introspection involving anything deeper than "How do I solve this problem to help me survive better?"

Maybe I just like humans more than animals. Hm. Wonder why.


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## Tycho (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> True, but there's no evidence of animal introspection involving anything deeper than "How do I solve this problem to help me survive better?"
> 
> Maybe I just like humans more than animals. Hm. Wonder why.



I have to admire some animals' capacity for learning and innovation, and I generally view animals in a favorable light because they usually are not capable of the levels of pathological and malicious behavior that we see in the human species.  I guess one could say that because there's more to human minds than to most animal minds, there's more things in it to go bad or become "broken".  A complex machine has more failure points than a simpler one.

That, and I've never had an animal verbally and emotionally abuse me for its own gratification.

Also, animals do sometimes suffer from depression, which I find interesting.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

Tycho said:


> I have to admire some animals' capacity for learning and innovation, and I generally view animals in a favorable light because they usually are not capable of the levels of pathological and malicious behavior that we see in the human species.  I guess one could say that because there's more to human minds than to most animal minds, there's more things in it to go bad or become "broken".  A complex machine has more failure points than a simpler one.
> 
> That, and I've never had an animal verbally and emotionally abuse me for its own gratification.


That is true, but animals are also not capable of charity on the level of human charity. Plus, a human is more likely to murder you than an animal (but the animal _does _have a better reason; survival). I like humans more though, because having sex with them is legal. :V


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## Vekke (Apr 1, 2009)

RandyDarkshade said:


> Humans do stupid things to, there is no difference. If anything i think alot of humans are much more dumb then animals.





Lord Kanin said:


> Lol
> 
> And just because we use tools and they don't doesn't make them dumber.





Lord Kanin said:


> It's talking about other animals because most people think of them as lesser. *Kanin glares angerly at those people*



can we stop with that please i am winning the furry bingo


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## Tycho (Apr 1, 2009)

Chronic said:


> That is true, but animals are also not capable of charity on the level of human charity. Plus, a human is less likely to murder you than an animal (but the animal _does _have a better reason; survival). I like humans more though, because having sex with them is legal. :V



That's a pretty good reason to prefer humans.

Doesn't stop some people, but hey, that's another (sordid) matter entirely.


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## Chronic (Apr 1, 2009)

Tycho said:


> That's a pretty good reason to prefer humans.
> 
> Doesn't stop some people, but hey, that's another (sordid) matter entirely.


This is true. 

All I have to say on that matter is that bark does not mean yes.


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## Attaman (Apr 1, 2009)

Congrats, we've changed the topic from Furry Elitism (I'm a better furry than you and should be able to decide whether you qualify as one!) to a debate on eating meat to animals intelligence.  The only logical stage left of this thread is the "HYOOMANS ARE TEH EVIL!" posts.

Humans do stupid shit.  Animals do stupid shit.  Difference is, humans do smarter shit too.  We can farm.  We can use tools to make our work more productive.  We can survive in environments much more readily.  We can record history.  We can make formulas that range from "If Jimmy has two apples and Sarah three..." to "...And that's what we need in order to safely manage this nuclear power plant."  You can argue "Humans are dumber than animals" all you want, but unless you can provide some stuff rivaling nuclear / quantum physics, I do believe humanity's "high end" trumps your species.


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## Gavrill (Apr 1, 2009)

Attaman said:


> You can argue "Humans are dumber than animals" all you want, but unless you can provide some stuff rivaling nuclear / quantum physics, I do believe humanity's "high end" trumps your species.


I agree. BUT REMEMBER WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT CHIMPS AND SHAKESPEARE??


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## Ozriel (Apr 1, 2009)

Furry fandom =/= Peta

Furry fandom: A fandom based around anthropormorphic art and literature, not a fucking animal activist group. You can care about animals, but some things should be seperate (in my opinion).

EDIT: I can say that the lot of you are not fit to be furries, but it isn't my place to "Excommunicate" based on my own opinion on who should be a justified furry or not.


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## El Furicuazo (Apr 5, 2009)

I do agree with one of the previous posts (the one mentioning what the furry fandom is about).  So far, this is my point of view:

-I do not consider killing animals for food or for being dangerous for our health is against morals.  Consider that many animal species kill others to feed on, that human evolution (if you agree with it) was greatly driven by meat consumtion, AND that the most common species for fursonas are atop food chains (canines, cats, dragons & mustelids are some of my main examples), so they would be meat eaters.  I would rather consider killing them for fun (like sport hunt or fishing), for fashion (like leather or fur clothing) or for non-vital experimentation (mainly in the cosmetics field) to be bad & against morals.

-What the furry fandom is about (like it was mentioned earlier).  Basically, it's about any topic (mostly art, [including literature] & other forms of entertainment) directly related to antropomorphic animals that behave really humanly (so far, that's still ficticious for us).  So its main focus isn't animal rights (although it is an important point for societies in general).

-I do consider furry people should have some degree of affinity & consideration towards other animal species, or at least to not have any speciescism (belief of one's species being superior to others in order to justify negative discrimination against them).


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## Jelly (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm sure a guy going into a strip bar is really concerned about women's rights.
But then again, if he isn't, then he's not really a guy in a strip bar.
Good thing, then he doesn't have to explain it to his wife.


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## StainMcGorver (Apr 5, 2009)

Huy, umm, luike, sum furryz ure, umm, unqualifuid tu, umm, bue, umm, furryz, kuz, umm, thuy, uhmm, eut mut.
Nut kuul.

Uh, umm, ulso, umm, thuy, umm, thunk thut humunhz ure, umm, smurtur thun, umm, uthur unimulz. Thut's stupud.

* Hangs OP's picture next to CyberFox's on the FAF hall of shame.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 5, 2009)

El Furicua said:


> I do agree with one of the previous posts (the one mentioning what the furry fandom is about).  So far, this is my point of view:
> 
> -I do not consider killing animals for food or for being dangerous for our health is against morals.  Consider that many animal species kill others to feed on, that human evolution (if you agree with it) was greatly driven by meat consumtion, AND that the most common species for fursonas are atop food chains (canines, cats, dragons & mustelids are some of my main examples), so they would be meat eaters.  I would rather consider killing them for fun (like sport hunt or fishing), for fashion (like leather or fur clothing) or for non-vital experimentation (mainly in the cosmetics field).
> 
> ...



Firstly, i couldn't have said it better myself (mainly cause i am useless with words) and secondly, i fully agree with ya!


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## Kommodore (Apr 6, 2009)

...

I am _sure_ you are not thinking about me when you made this thread, now were you, eerie?


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## Verin Asper (Apr 6, 2009)

I still find this funny...why I know I'm not qualified to be a furry. I also belive I been infected with the Whitenoise virus...cause furries are starting to make me rage, mainly at Eerie


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## IsabellaPrice (Apr 6, 2009)

I love taxidermy, I wear full-length fur coats, and I trip my cat every time he walks past me.

Whoops, guess I'm not a furry. O:

----

This is a ridiculous argument. Furry =/= Animal Rights.


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## Attaman (Apr 6, 2009)

Desume Crysis Kaiser said:


> I also belive I been infected with the Whitenoise virus...


  You say that as though it's a bad thing.



> cause furries are starting to make me rage, mainly at Eerie


 See above.


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## Trpdwarf (Apr 6, 2009)

Sorry but since when did being a furry mean you are an animal lover?
Dude, you are unqualified to even talk about furry if you think being one is about caring about animals.

Being a fur is about being a fan of the art. That comes first and for most. You don't join the fandom because you care about animals, and that is that.


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## Werevixen (Apr 6, 2009)

In a perfect world, Eerie Silverfox would have his internet license revoked.


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## Henk86 (Apr 6, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> In a perfect world, Eerie Silverfox would have his internet license revoked.



A bit harsh, maybe him taking a vow of silence for a few months.


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## StainMcGorver (Apr 6, 2009)

Henk86 said:


> A bit harsh, maybe him taking a vow of silence for a few months.


A bit harsh?
The fuck are you smoking?


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## Henk86 (Apr 6, 2009)

StainMcGorver said:


> A bit harsh?
> The fuck are you smoking?



I've just come back from the pub and I'm a bit drunk alright  I have moments of weakness. lol


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## Lethe5683 (Apr 7, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Some people are unqualifiedto be furries, I beleive.
> The reason being that they have such little concern for real life animals. I have seen people on this board defending and validating bullfighting, animal testing and disecting animals in school. I'm not saying anyone has to change it's mind, I'm saying that I think furries should have some concern for animals. And if you don't, I don't think being a furry is right for you.


 I am totaly against all abuse and misuse of animals including for scidentific purposes.  As far as eating meat goes however, I just can't live without meat.  I tried being a vegetarian and slowly became more and more sickly.


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## Lobar (Apr 7, 2009)

let this miscarriage of a thread fucking die already >:|


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## krisCrash (Apr 7, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> In a perfect world, Eerie Silverfox would have his internet license revoked.



there are bigger idiots in this thread, lol


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 7, 2009)

krisCrash said:


> there are bigger idiots in this thread, lol



I agree with you on that.


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## Werevixen (Apr 7, 2009)

krisCrash said:


> there are bigger idiots in this thread, lol




I beg to differ. Everything Eerie Silverfox does is stupid, every thread he makes is one filled with shit, including this post I just made is shit, because it is tainted. :v


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 7, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> I beg to differ. Everything Eerie Silverfox does is stupid, every thread he makes is one filled with shit, including this post I just made is shit, because it is tainted. :v



If Eeries threads are alwways fulla shite, then why do we all bother posting in them? o.o........Appart from to flame Eerie and make our own points.


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## Werevixen (Apr 7, 2009)

RandyDarkshade said:


> If Eeries threads are alwways fulla shite, then why do we all bother posting in them? o.o........Appart from to flame Eerie and make our own points.



The 'apart from' bit is the only reason.


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## StainMcGorver (Apr 7, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> The 'apart from' bit is the only reason.


Agreed.
And to add another post to our post counts.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't know much about Eerie, but i am presuming he/she does these bull carp threads alot? (misspell intended)


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## Dahguns (Apr 7, 2009)

wow 13 pages in, wat r we talking about now?


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## StainMcGorver (Apr 7, 2009)

Duhguns said:


> wow 13 pages in, wat r we talking about now?


What punishment Eerie should receive for this crime. (Bullshit thread creation.)



RandyDarkshade said:


> I don't know much about Eerie, but i am presuming he/she does these bull shit threads alot?


Yup.


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## Eerie Silverfox (Apr 7, 2009)

Fine. I'm done casting pearls before swine.


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## Lobar (Apr 7, 2009)

Eerie Silverfox said:


> Fine. I'm done casting pearls before swine.



yes your blithering ignorance is such a fucking gift bestowed upon FAF we don't even know

no really the only thing more insufferable than your ignorance is your ego get out


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## krisCrash (Apr 7, 2009)

Werevixen said:


> I beg to differ. Everything Eerie Silverfox does is stupid, every thread he makes is one filled with shit, including this post I just made is shit, because it is tainted. :v



Okay well, I only read the 3 first pages in which Eerie came out as fairly sensible compared to vegan nazis and meat eating hypocrites ("I don't kill em I just eat em"), I mean at first Eerie was more about "you should be against animal _cruelty_" which is fair enough.


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## amtrack88 (Apr 7, 2009)

I do whatever is most convenient for me.


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## SnowFox (Apr 7, 2009)

I thought this thread was locked ages ago, or am I confusing it with another Eerie thread?


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