# Playing in the big league (dealers den advice needed)



## Ziggywolf (Jul 8, 2012)

Despite having sacreficed most of my social life aswell as my sanity, 
I am determined what ever the cost to have a table at the dealers den at Eurofurance. 
I work as a graphic designer /ilustrator with my own studio, 
and am going to set up a stand with a large poster,
pricing list and small tumbnails of all my wares. 
Though I do not want to come across as to cocky. (ha ha I said cock, there done laughing?)

I plan on selling: 
Small free handouts of my art with an url to my FA
buisnisscards
Postcards
Bookmarks
Smal posters
Medium sized posters
and big posters

Printing and all that I can arrange my self, my question is rather
how to stand out in the crowd as a rookie amungst profetionals 
and hardened veterans. To be brutally hoest I am scared shitless.
and would deeply apreaciate any help or advice.
For instance, what type of art to go for, since I vary my style alot
to accomedate customers as I do in my profetional pratice.
Two things I do have to my advantage though is 4 years in sales management
and having an art degree.


Here`s a feew examples on my progress the past 5 months.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8084499/


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 8, 2012)

Ziggywolf said:


> Two things I do have to my advantage though is 4 years in sales management
> and having an art degree.
> 
> 
> ...



To stand out you need to improve.

I don't know why an art degree matters. What leg up do you really have when you mention it if you're selling against people who show better fundamentals?
Varying a style means nothing - meeting the actual demands of a client means more.
It's also "professional" I know people aren't perfect at spelling, but if you're going to use a term to describe yourself get it right. 

Now that I've said all that, the best experience is actually being there and watching what other people are doing and selling. It's really trial and error. Having the experience will be a learning experience. People can be fantastic artists, but having an art table will still be a learning experience as well. 

The thing about posters is that people have limited wall space, so if it's not fantastic - many won't buy it. If they're there to pick up porn - that also lessens the chances of a sale. So things people can stash seems to be ideal - post card sized prints seem to be a great way for that. Collection of sketches in CDs seemed to have been another thing people will buy - though burning CDs can be time consuming and costly as well. 

So just go out and experience it, learn from it and see what others are doing.


----------



## Ziggywolf (Jul 8, 2012)

Thank you for your input. I do appologize for having better things to do with my time then running spellchecks. 
Professional is a missused word theese days, I ment only that I have experiance from the graphic industry, nothing more. As for meeting clients demands wouldn't adaptability be an asset? Or should I spesialize? And how do I know what my clients want with out beeing able to interact with them in advance? I supose drawing lots of smut helps, though I'd hope to make somthing a bit more tastefull aswell. I am all to aware of my shortcommings. That beeing said I have improved over my intensive training period. But I also see that I am in for tough competition, as there are wastly more skilled artists, whom I have taken precaution not to sit next to. So, basicly more training, less posters and just see what happens? Cd's are somthing I've considered.  All in all I still beleive I have a small chance, if even a small one.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 8, 2012)

Yeah...I think making a case for yourself taking time to spell check a few things is never a waste of time. It means you are paying attention to how you present yourself. No one is saying get it perfect - but imagine you're trying to sell me art and you couldn't spell my name right and had a bunch of typos. It doesn't really make a good case for yourself. It looks like you're inattentive and don't care if you think it's not worth your time.

Getting better at your art is how you can adapt. I don't know why people focus so much on style if they have no substance behind it. People can do more styles because they took the time to learn foundations. That's how they adapt. 

As I said, you don't know what your clients really want till you actually have a table in this case. So go through observe and experience this trial and error

5 months is "nothing" in artist improvement. It's more like 40 hours a week on art in 5 years or over 10,000 bad drawings to produce better ones. 

So yes, the best experience is to go out there, have fun, and interact with people next to you to see what you may need to do next time. If you get some sales, good for you but use that time to learn too.


----------



## Ziggywolf (Jul 8, 2012)

Offcourse spellchecking when presenting material for sale is well in it`s place, as for forums, I`m only asking for advice not grammar lessons. As for putting down hours, I`ve been drawing atleast two peices each day for the past 10 years, but I realize I still have a long way to go before becoming a demigod as some artists. Alas I am but mortal. Heeding your advice I think I will see this as an experiment, and see what happens. And by fall and winter I will not post another drawing untill I have completed my training course except for a feew I want feedback on, then go to an artist as his aprentice untill I am ready. Again, thank you for taking your time answering my questions.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 8, 2012)

Improving is not an "either/or" choice.

What I'm saying is I never understood why people feel like they should *only* post if they are done with some training exercise. You can have fun and draw your fun stuff and do the not so fun stuff. In fact this combination is probably the BEST way to improve. Have fun, do stuff that's not so fucn. 

My general criticisms with people posting art is that if they draw for fun, I'm ok with that - it's when they make this drama about getting more watches, how they hate attitudes popular artists etc... but don't want to practice on the not so fun shit to improve.


----------



## Saeto15 (Jul 9, 2012)

I agree with Arshes.  How you present yourself is key, and if you don't know the basics of grammar and spelling, a lot of people are just going to ignore you.  I mean, I had a hard time reading your posts because my eyes automatically glaze over when nothing's spelled right.

As for the improvement on your art... ask yourself, why are you drawing to begin with?  Your first post mentions your four years of sales management first, and then your art degree as an afterthought.  Are you drawing just to sell commissions?  Or are you drawing because you love drawing, and doing commissions on the side happens to be a decent source of income?  There's nothing wrong with making money off of your art, but if you're not in it because you love doing it, you're not going to be successful.  

Also, keep in mind that improvement takes time.  Just because you're investing in "training courses" doesn't mean you will see any difference.  And as Arshes said, having a degree in art doesn't mean a thing.  I have a Bachelors of Fine Arts in Illustration.  So?  I wasted four years of my life to get it (not to mention put myself in debt for life), but it doesn't make me a professional.  It takes years of dedication and practice, which means you're always thinking about art, looking at art, practicing, etc.  It doesn't happen overnight, and if you're fooling yourself into believing it does, you're just going to end up frustrated.


----------



## Ziggywolf (Jul 9, 2012)

I`ll just ignore that first part, since, my mind goes blank, when ever someone gets tied up in trifles, I hope you`re able to read this. 

I draw, first of all because I love creating, I have a constant stream of ideas that never seems to go away. It`s not even a conscious decision, my need to create is so great I would literally die before giving that up. I just want to show people the vast universe that exists inside my mind. I want to help people visualize their ideas, visions, dreams. I want to do popper justice to the things I see in my minds eye, present it as I see it, and to do that I need to get better pure and simple. It`s like I`m a medium for a grater force, and the signal isn`t getting trough properly. I seldom take pride in what I do since I in some ways feel I`m just a vessel for my imagination, just a messenger. Honestly Fame and fortune mean nothing to me, I just want to draw, perhaps make a living doing what I love. And I agree getting a degree is not worth it, I`ll be in debt till I die probably. I guess I`m just frustrated, that improvement takes so long, even though, comparing my present art to last years I see a world of difference. I`m afraid I`m running out of time, that I`ll die before having the time realize my dreams. It`s about leaving something good behind me when I`m gone, leaving a legacy.


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 9, 2012)

^Wow... All they wanted to do was help. That first sentence was a little extra if I interpreted that right. :<


----------



## mapdark (Jul 9, 2012)

Ziggywolf said:


> I`ll just ignore that first part, since, my mind goes blank, when ever someone gets tied up in trifles, I hope you`re able to read this.
> 
> I draw, first of all because I love creating, I have a constant stream of ideas that never seems to go away. It`s not even a conscious decision, my need to create is so great I would literally die before giving that up. I just want to show people the vast universe that exists inside my mind. I want to help people visualize their ideas, visions, dreams. I want to do popper justice to the things I see in my minds eye, present it as I see it, and to do that I need to get better pure and simple. It`s like I`m a medium for a grater force, and the signal isn`t getting trough properly. I seldom take pride in what I do since I in some ways feel I`m just a vessel for my imagination, just a messenger. Honestly Fame and fortune mean nothing to me, I just want to draw, perhaps make a living doing what I love. And I agree getting a degree is not worth it, I`ll be in debt till I die probably. I guess I`m just frustrated, that improvement takes so long, even though, comparing my present art to last years I see a world of difference. I`m afraid I`m running out of time, that I`ll die before having the time realize my dreams. It`s about leaving something good behind me when I`m gone, leaving a legacy.




My GOD MAN! I Can SMELL the pretentious all the way up in Canada!

Do you realise how DOUCHEY the first sentence in this post sounds?

"I'll IGNORE this first sentence because my mind goes blank when someone ends up tied up in trifles"

Not only do you openly admit to ignoring advice from these two , but on top of that you call this advice insignificant , trivial , frivolous. 

And then you proceed into an endless monologue of self-importance. 

Well , since you have so little regard for other people's opinions and advice and seem to be unaware of common courtesy and politeness I will communicate my message in terms you might understand.


Your art is too crappy to be sold at cons. 

PERIOD. 

And as long as you're going to play this game of passive-agressive "look-at-me , I'm one of the greats but cannot put my ideas on paper , woe is me" crap , you will never improve.

Fact is , I couldn't care less if you have a degree in art. Because art is so subjective these days that someone could fart paint on a canvas and get a degree.

What matters is the EFFORT someone puts in their craft and trust me , being a little HUMBLE doesn't harm either!


----------



## Saeto15 (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah, wow.  I wasn't pushing the issue because I can see English isn't your first language, but you can type it well enough that putting the extra effort for proper grammar isn't going to kill you.  

As for the rest, I can see that giving advice isn't going to help you.  Either you're going to improve or you're not.  It's all up to you, in the end.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 9, 2012)

Well looking at their bio on FA ... I guess I am no longer surprised.


----------



## RTDragon (Jul 9, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well looking at their bio on FA ... I guess I am no longer surprised.



I was wondering when someone would notice that. especially the journals considering how disturbing they were especially the breakdown one.


----------



## Ziggywolf (Jul 10, 2012)

I only ment that I am sick and tired of having my grammar comented, as I said earlier I did not come here for grammar lessons.
And if that makes me a pretencious prick then so be it.
What`s so pretencious about wanting to crete somthing?
And yes I`m clinicly insane so what, why should you care? it doesn`t affect you.
Though I`d have to be mad to attemt somthing like this.


----------



## RTDragon (Jul 10, 2012)

Ziggywolf said:


> And yes I`m *clinically insane*  so what, why should you care? it doesn't affect you.



Actually it does affect a lot of things like your behavior at how you reacted to advice and i would hate to see how you would react to to customers or others. OP i would worry more about your own sanity then doing commissions.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2012)

I have frequently watched people on CA in the lounge most often talk about certain disorders and then wonder why they can't "art" It was mentioned - fix issues with yourself first before art. That can be working on depression issues, and other health issues.

Art can be a fun side thing - but once you start working for money this is a different ballgame.


----------



## Ziggywolf (Jul 10, 2012)

You`re right I guess, I mean did I really come across as that aggressive? Well, I just have a thing about grammar when on forums. Sorry. I`m usually not aggressive at all, except the occasional sarcasm But, then again as much as I hate to admit it it`s something I should be aware of. But it`s not like I`m going to flip out or anything when dealing with customers, after all I`ve held a sales job for some years. off course I am working on my self, trough meditation and counseling. 
Anyhow, a lot of people says I should offer more yiff, what`s your opinion? 
And yeah, I`m aware I may not sell much, but I have gotten a few pre-orders, and some interest so who knows? At least I`m trying, got to give me some credit for that right?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 10, 2012)

You should draw what you enjoy drawing first. Don't draw to sell out unless it is a career.


----------

