# Hey look, another smartphone thread



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

So I might be looking at finally getting into this decade by getting a smartphone, and I've kind of narrowed it down between the iPhone 4 and the Samsung Galaxy S Captivate, basically iOS and Android.

The case for the iPhone 4 is because firstly, the iPhone's screen has a higher resolution (and since it's smaller, a higher DPI, too). Second, the iPhone's App Store has had a lot longer to mature, and the apps available are ostensibly of better quality and variety. That said, I haven't got any first-hand experience with that, so I actually have no idea what apps are available for the Android platform. I do know that games aren't widely available, which is a semi-concern, since it seems a lot of devs are moving to make iOS games, while Android seems left in the dark.

The case for the Captivate is that it's running a more open OS, which is a good thing. The battery life is supposed to be better, and the screen more vibrant (and with true blacks and 180* viewing angle), which is also good. As for the App Market, there are supposedly a wider selection of free apps, which is also a big plus, but I have no idea what the quality or scope of those would be. The biggest reason for it, though, is that I don't believe it requires iTunes, and it supports a wider variety of formats for media playback. Oh, and expandability with the SD card slot.

I guess the biggest thing it comes down to is the feature set and the ease of use of the touch interface, since in either case it would be my first touch device. I'm (bizarrely) leaning towards the iPhone mostly because of the potential that games will continue to migrate to it and for the App Store. The one good thing about Apple's model of closing off their platforms is that there isn't much variation between any given generation of devices, while the landscape for Android is wildly varied in terms of power, so I can't see developers moving to Android in any major capacity right now. I kind of see it the same way as I see the Dreamcast - Back when I bought it, it was the more powerful platform, and it basically died on the vine. The circumstances aren't quite the same, but it feels the same, and from the wildly varying versions of Android OS currently on the market and the seeming lack of support for many current phones for upcoming versions (as I understand it) makes me feel like Apple is the more stable choice.

But it's still up in the air. I don't really know much more than that about the landscape between Android and iOS, and I wouldn't mind some input from both sides of the fence.


----------



## medjai (Oct 9, 2010)

iPhone 4. Better hardware, better service, and more regulated (and thus higher quality and safer) App Store. There shouldn't even be a competition.


----------



## Icky (Oct 9, 2010)

Driod2 here, and I've been amazed by everything that this phone has done so far. The touchscreen controls are awesome, and the resolution is better than most I've seen.


----------



## Lapdog (Oct 9, 2010)

I got an iPhone 4 and can't fault it one bit. Like you said, Droid has more free apps, but the Apple AppStore has alot more to choose from, and (Like you said) more in the means of games.

Also, the new iOS 4.1 is alot more stable, and better than the original iOS 4.0 shipped with the iPhone, so another plus for it! (From my point of view)


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

As it turns out, the expandable nature of the Captivate isn't a selling point anymore - It's only expandable to 32GB, which is an available capacity for the iPhone (though much more expensive, mind you - Price IS a consideration, of course).


----------



## Aden (Oct 9, 2010)

Yeah so I'm playing Prince of Persia: Warrior Within on my iPhone 4 right now

so that's cool I guess


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 9, 2010)

medjai said:


> iPhone 4. Better hardware, better service, and more regulated (and thus higher quality and safer) App Store. There shouldn't even be a competition.


 
thats not really true. the iphone 4 has a TON of flaws and problems. as for the hardware, i cant really compare that to other phones because i dont know the hardware of other phones.
but about the service... i really wouldnt call it better. its just used by more people and thats why you have more apps. and the fact that the appstore is heavily overlooked and regulated by apple isnt good at all...

and there is a TON of competition! every new android phone for example or nokias new phones.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

Aden said:


> Yeah so I'm playing Prince of Persia: Warrior Within on my iPhone 4 right now
> 
> so that's cool I guess


 
Fingers get in the way much?


----------



## Captain Howdy (Oct 9, 2010)

Android, Galaxy S, whatever it takes - Better than the iPhone, and AT&T. 

The "maturity" of the app store stops at 10,000 lightsaber apps, and 15,000 AK-47 apps. Seriously, the most ANYone with apps (across all platforms) will use is no more than like...25. And most of those are cross-platform, I bet you. 

Twitter and Facebook? Got it built in. Plus Gmail, all capable of individually announcing new messages/alerts/etc. Not to mention widgets, which means all you have to do is turn your screen on, and the info is right there - No apps needed.

Games? Improving rapidly (with some titles already there)

Streaming radio music? Equal across platforms

Playing music you put in the phone? I find drag'n'drop a fucklot simpler, and without the need for a program - So my favour is with Android (whereas iTunes and all that noise for the iPhone)

E-Booking, same across platforms I think

And i'unno, for me - Google basically is adding one of their programs after another into the phones. Got Earth, Maps, Voice, Chat, Mail, Goggles, Browser, Contacts, Translate, Latitude, News, and Youtube all built in >.>


----------



## medjai (Oct 9, 2010)

CaptainCool said:


> thats not really true. the iphone 4 has a TON of flaws and problems.



Like?



> as for the hardware, i cant really compare that to other phones because i dont know the hardware of other phones.



Highest screen resolution on the market. Highest touch sensitivity on the market. Most physical features (and best execution) I've seen.



> but about the service... i really wouldnt call it better. its just used by more people and thats why you have more apps.



I was referring to AppleCare. It is the _only_ electronic warranty I'd ever encourage, because it's actually well worth the money. Consumer Reports even backs me on this one.



> and the fact that the appstore is heavily overlooked and regulated by apple isnt good at all...



Why not? You have a guarantee that the apps will work with the phone, that any compatibility issues are addressed before it even goes to market, that your money isn't wasted on faulty software, and most of all, that it's secure from viruses or other malicious software. The Android market can't come close to that kind of guarantee.



> and there is a TON of competition! every new android phone for example or nokias new phones.



Which is good, and that's why there are good products out there. Pushes companies to improve.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

Just so you know, I'd be going with Rogers, not AT&T. Here in Canada, Rogers has great network coverage. ... Not so much where I live, but hey, can't complain much, since I don't usually venture outside of the coverage area anyway. By maturity, I wasn't really meaning the maturity level of the apps available, but the number and quality of the apps that I might want to use versus the App Market, which is still in its infancy. Games like Ace Combat Xi are solely on the iOS platform, and I'm hearing nothing of major releases on the Android platform.

iTunes IS a big concern for me, but I'd be willing to put up with it if I ended up with a better overall experience with better availability and integration of software on the phone itself. My concern with Android is that because it's so varied and splintered across so many different types and classes of devices, that the general experience and quality of apps in general suffers as a result. While I have no evidence for or against that concept aside from intuition, my intuition regarding technology is rarely wrong. I do like the concept of Android being open and especially in that it's not-Apple, but I have to wonder if idealism means anything in the long run here.

... Which is why I'm asking. Ideological battles don't really mean much to me in this decision. If they did, I'd have shunned the iPhone 4 to begin with.


----------



## Captain Howdy (Oct 9, 2010)

Runefox said:


> By maturity, I wasn't really meaning the maturity level of the apps available, but the number and quality of the apps that I might want to use versus the App Market, which is still in its infancy. Games like Ace Combat Xi are solely on the iOS platform, and I'm hearing nothing of major releases on the Android platform.
> 
> iTunes IS a big concern for me, but I'd be willing to put up with it if I ended up with a better overall experience with better availability and integration of software on the phone itself. My concern with Android is that because it's so varied and splintered across so many different types and classes of devices, that the general experience and quality of apps in general suffers as a result. While I have no evidence for or against that concept aside from intuition, my intuition regarding technology is rarely wrong. I do like the concept of Android being open and especially in that it's not-Apple, but I have to wonder if idealism means anything in the long run here.
> 
> ... Which is why I'm asking. Ideological battles don't really mean much to me in this decision. If they did, I'd have shunned the iPhone 4 to begin with.


 
The NUMBER of apps is not an important concept. Apple boasts 250k, Android has 70k (which was like 10-15k earlier this year, I think). Like I said before, either way you go - Most of the apps you get are probably on both iOS and Android, and the most you'll stay with is around 25.

Game-wise, Apple might be a winner at this point in time, but down the road, maybe not so much - The Android store is growing rapidly.

Android is drag and drop, the Music app is extremely simple (and requires nothing on your part. You drag the songs onto the phone, and it will do the rest). As versus uploading the songs to iTunes, converting them (or what have you), and then syncing with your phone. I'unno, I find the two-step process of Android a lot easier/more simple.

Android is not that varied by phone either...The Droid's all have the same OS; look, work, and feel the same (except the newer ones work faster than say, the first Droid). The only difference I can see, is the position of the Apps menu. For the Droids, it's in the bottom center, for the captivate, it's on the bottom right - For like, the G1/G2, I think there's a physical button >_> Really not much variety there, at least nothing to "scare" you from Android. 

Also, super easy to jailbreak Android :v So being technically minded, you could probably make it your own - So to speak. Not just stick with the standard.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 9, 2010)

medjai said:


> Like?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
1. poor antenna design, bluetooth problems, that sensor that checks how far your face is away from it had its issues, there seems to be a problem with glass backpiece cracking.
2. not true. super amoled displays are better than the retina display of the iphone 4. way better colors and a higher resolution of 800x480. in the samsung galaxy s i9000 for example. its also WAY bigger with a size of 4".
about the hardware itself, they are pretty much on paar... same amount of RAM and the CPU and GPU are pretty similar concerning their speeds.
3. calling apples support good is like saying diarrhea is fun because it comes out faster... here in germany you get 2 years warranty on EVERY product. apple cant compete with that.
4. because the company can control what you get that way. they dont want certain things in their shop so you dont get them. why do you think that SO many people jailbreak their idevices? so that apple cant control that anymore.
5. yeah, its good overall but not good for apple  because the iphone 4 is not the top selling phone right now in the states.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

> Game-wise, Apple might be a winner at this point in time, but down the road, maybe not so much - The Android store is growing rapidly.


No, I don't think so, and let me tell you why in this next bit.



> Android is not that varied by phone either...The Droid's all have the same OS; look, work, and feel the same (except the newer ones work faster than say, the first Droid). The only difference I can see, is the position of the Apps menu. For the Droids, it's in the bottom center, for the captivate, it's on the bottom right - For like, the G1/G2, I think there's a physical button >_> Really not much variety there, at least nothing to "scare" you from Android.


Each Android-based phone has the potential to be using a different CPU or differently-clocked CPU, different speeds and amounts of RAM and different storage methods, also with varying speeds. Because of this, apps (to a lesser extent) and (especially) games are difficult to develop for the platform in general unless you're developing for a specific phone. The Samsung Galaxy S Captivate, for example, has 326MB of RAM and runs a 1GHz Samsung Hummingbird S5PC110. The HTC Desire runs a 1GHz Qualcomm QSD 8250 with an AMD Z430 GPU, and has 512MB of RAM. Similar, but the difference in RAM and in how each CPU handles different tasks means that you can't simply design a game that will run the way you want it to run across every device. This is the major reason why I can't see gaming taking off on the Android platform - It's too varied a landscape. Imagine if every model of PS3 had different amounts of RAM and different CPU's, and certain games would only run on certain SKU's? Sure, this is (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong) the case with some iOS games and older iOS devices, but this is within the same line. You can be reasonably well-assured that current-gen apps that you create will run exactly the same on any current-gen iOS device, whereas with Android, you have no such guarantee. This is why gaming will not take off on the Android platform like it has on iOS, and unless stricter restrictions are placed on the platform itself, that's probably not going to change. This is also exactly why iOS devices are appealing to me - The one time where Apple's iron fist in design has been a good thing.



> higher resolution of 800x480


No, the iPhone 4's screen is a 3.5" at 960x640, which makes it a much higher DPI device as well as giving it a higher display resolution.


----------



## Captain Howdy (Oct 9, 2010)

The question is kinda posed then - The iOS has one victory (gaming) against Android...So there's +1 for them, against the other +'s for Android >.>

Realistically speaking, you gotta fall on what you're trying to get out of your phone. 

I wanted mobile internet access, a touch screen, and apps. :V

I got all that, bundled in an awesome smartphone. 

Sure we could kinda sit here and compare phone-penises, and while I feel you'd love the Captivate - I dunno exactly what you're trying to put your money towards, in your heart of hearts.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 9, 2010)

Runefox said:


> No, the iPhone 4's screen is a 3.5" at 960x640, which makes it a much higher DPI device as well as giving it a higher display resolution.


 
my sourse on that sucks then^^


----------



## Aden (Oct 9, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Fingers get in the way much?


 
Actually they did it very well. It's not intrusive at all

Fingers are a problem in Geometry Wars though


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

Lastdirewolf said:


> The question is kinda posed then - The iOS has one victory (gaming) against Android...So there's +1 for them, against the other +'s for Android >.>
> 
> Realistically speaking, you gotta fall on what you're trying to get out of your phone.
> 
> ...


 
Well, I think I'd love the Captivate, too, but basically that's the problem. What I want to do with them is basically the extent of the devices' limits are. What I'm trying to gauge is A) whether what I know about both already is true, B) how much support either platform has, C) how easy to use the touch interfaces are, D) the availability, selection and quality of apps and so on.

What I want to do with it, aside from being a phone, is to replace my PSP as a mobile media player (carry only one device around), help organize myself a little better, give myself constant access to my IM/e-mail and also my home computers via SSH or over a VPN, and also to aid in adapting web designs for mobile devices. Games aren't my major focus, but they're a consideration; I do want to be able to have access to titles that are more frequently migrating to mobile phones. That having been said, it appears that there are console emulators available for Android that are only available on iOS if you jailbreak the phone (and void the warranty).

Oh, one more thing: The Captivate isn't available here *yet*, but the guys at the Future Shop (Best Buy) were saying that they'll be available this week coming.


----------



## Aden (Oct 9, 2010)

Runefox said:


> if you jailbreak the phone (and void the warranty).


 
If you need the warranty, restore the phone from a backup. There's no way for them to know whether or not it was jailbroken.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

Aden said:


> If you need the warranty, restore the phone from a backup. There's no way for them to know whether or not it was jailbroken.


 
Well that's a plus. I read after I posted that it was a userland jailbreak, which equals exactly that. So that makes it a lot more attractive still, since that allows me to tap into the apps that are available beyond Apple's reach, and perhaps do more still. I do think I like the interface of the Captivate a bit more than with iPhone 4, and it does do Flash, but the browser is far less responsive (to scroll/zoom commands, that is - Loading pages, it's faster) all the same.

Also, looking at comparisons online and on Youtube, it seems as though I was wrong about the Captivate having the better battery life of the two, and it seems like the iPhone would be a lot better for carrying around (not to mention slightly smaller). I know that both should be able to connect to a VPN regardless of jailbreaking, and I also know that the Captivate has a lot more customization options as well, but I'm still not sure if it's enough to tip the scales, especially in the face of jailbreaking the iPhone 4.


----------



## Carenath (Oct 9, 2010)

medjai said:


> iPhone 4. Better hardware, better service, and more regulated (and thus higher quality and safer) App Store. There shouldn't even be a competition.


 Hello Apple Fanboi!

Runefox, if you're considering hardware alone, the Captivate and the iPhone 4 are on par.


 Samsung made the 'Apple A4' processor that powers the iPhone 4 and the iPad.. they later tweaked and improved it, and put into their own phone, the Galaxy S.
 The Galaxy S has 2GB of internal flash, plus 8 or 16GB (depends on the model) on an 'internal sd card' in addition to what sized microSD card you add.
The Galaxy S running Eclair (2.1) has a known issue with the GPS and on occasion can exhibit a lag when opening up some applications. Both issues to be fixed in the upcoming update to 2.2 Froyo.
Apple keeps an abismally tight hold on the AppStore, and the only way you can generally write applications for it.. is if you buy a Mac and spend $$$$ on developer licenses, then pray that Steve doesn't take a dislike to your app.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

The Galaxy S's maximum amount of memory through expansion is 32GB, including its internal 16GB, which makes the SD expandability less of a tempting feature. I believe that through jailbreaking I'll be able to gain access to a fairly large amount of community-generated content, including things like wireless access point software that turns the iPhone into a WAP, and console emulators, along with the standard iPhone fare with the App Store. Based on that, I'm not sure if the Galaxy S actually has quite the same capabilities as the iPhone does, especially when considering the prospect of games released for the iPhone beyond the standard Flash game port fare being released on Android seems slim because of the hardware variances. While the interface (I think) is much nicer on the Galaxy S and the browser supports Flash, I do get the feeling after watching some comparison videos that the Galaxy S is slightly less responsive to things like scrolling and zooming with its browser (even though the browser loads pages more quickly). Also, I do like the greater degree of customization available for the Galaxy S's interface and that the screen isn't a backlight-style screen, but that's tempered by a shorter battery life.

I'm also not sure how far along the Android OS update chain the Galaxy S would be supported - I'd be in for a three year contract if I were to get either device, and based on how the iPhone 3G and 3GS are still prevalent, it seems like the iOS platform actually offers less in the way of being "left behind" than Android. Especially considering how many Android devices I've looked at aside from the Galaxy S use pre-2.x revisions and everyone cites even being compatible with 2.2 in the future as a "feature". For example, the phone that Rogers is currently pushing hard is the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10, which runs Android 1.6, and the Motorola Quench runs Android 1.5. These phones aren't even a year old yet, and already there are revisions beyond 2.2/Froyo that are being scheduled for early 2011. Mind you, Froyo and the 2011 Gingerbread Android OS updates sound like they have a lot to offer, but will the Galaxy S be compatible with those, too? How will App compatibility be with the Galaxy S a year from now? Two? It seems like iOS is a much more stable platform.

Thankfully, app creation isn't really a major problem for me seeing as I'm not actually a programmer in any respect. The fact that the iOS platform is ridiculously popular, at least in my mind, increases the likelihood that useful apps would be available either on Apple's App Store or via Cydia repositories.


----------



## LLiz (Oct 9, 2010)

Hey Runefox, I am also in the process of choosing a smart phone (in fact I might even be buying one today). 

*For me iPhone isn't an option... here's why: *
* yes I know it has tons of apps (most are rubbish or course)
* Apple ARE the kings of user experience, as long as you use the phone the way that Apple would like you to use it, should you want to use it some other way (as being a geek I would) then you're screwed unless you jailbreak
* Jailbreaking is a time bomb waiting to go off, don't rely on being able to do it forever, Apple will eventually stop it
* iPhone has more storage, but want to do anything useful with the storage... perhaps use the phone as a portable hard drive... good luck, ain't gonna happen
* iTunes
* What ever happened to the antenna issues?
* Lots of people I know complain that some issues (such as easily adjusting screen brightness) are too complicated 
* Lots of people I know with iPhones are considering swapping to Android

*Samsung Galaxy S (bear in mind, the one that Optus sells in Australia may be different to yours): *
The good: 
* Super AMOLED screens apparently perform really well in direct sunlight
* Lots of media formats supported
* Wifi internet access point is built into the phone
* Uses a side to side menu system like the iPhone's instead of the standard Android top to bottom system
* Swipe keyboard input system
The indifferent: 
* Super AMOLED screen, nice resolution, nice contrast, but OLED is still fairly new and on Samsung they use that double pixel trick on their screens, creates a moire effect, here's a link for further reading: 
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...exus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
Just remember that the Galaxy S screen is far superior to the Nexus One's AMOLED screen, much much better contrast ratio, colour definition, colour accuracy, etc. 
* The size of the phone puts me off, for some people it is a selling point, but I am not sure that I am a fan
The bad: 
* I've heard reports that the Galaxy S has this cheap feel to it, they say its good but doesn't feel like a top of the line phone
* Android 2.1 is apparently a little laggy on the Galaxy S, but apparently Android 2.2 fixes that
* I never knew that 32GB is as far as you can go with the Galaxy, but then again, I know I'd probably not use all that space anyway. 

Also, have you considered the HTC Desire HD? it's just as fast, has a bigger screen, uses a Super LCD panel, comes with Android 2.2?


----------



## Aden (Oct 9, 2010)

LLiz said:


> * Jailbreaking is a time bomb waiting to go off, don't rely on being able to do it forever, Apple will eventually stop it


 
A court ruled that jailbreaking is legal. The only way it'll end is if the jailbreaking teams suddenly all get wiped out in a freak earthquake or something.

And even if there was never another jailbreak release ever again, all you'd have to do is keep your iOS at the latest version that's jailbroken.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 9, 2010)

LLiz said:


> * Jailbreaking is a time bomb waiting to go off, don't rely on being able to do it forever, Apple will eventually stop it


Not really... The worst that can happen is I'm not able to upgrade my OS without losing the jailbreak (which equals a factory reset). Not a big deal.



> * iPhone has more storage, but want to do anything useful with the storage... perhaps use the phone as a portable hard drive... good luck, ain't gonna happen


I was under the impression that...



> * iTunes


... allowed you to set aside a section of space on an i-device for storage. On that note, yes, I hate iTunes.



> * What ever happened to the antenna issues?


They still exist, but they're actually worse on the Galaxy S on the opposite side of the phone (holding it right-handed).



> * Lots of people I know complain that some issues (such as easily adjusting screen brightness) are too complicated


Brightness probably won't be an issue for me, seeing as my current phone has exactly one brightness setting.



> * Lots of people I know with iPhones are considering swapping to Android


Grass is always greener on the other side.  I've heard the same about Android users and iPhone.



> * Super AMOLED screens apparently perform really well in direct sunlight


I've heard the opposite.



> * Lots of media formats supported


Yep. That's a BIG plus. <3 FLAC and Vorbis



> * Wifi internet access point is built into the phone


This can be done with a jailbroken iPhone, and the Galaxy S can't do this until Android 2.2 is released.



> * Uses a side to side menu system like the iPhone's instead of the standard Android top to bottom system


...? I'm not sure what this means. Both swipe the app pages from side to side?



> * Swipe keyboard input system


Ugh. *UGH*. No.



> * The size of the phone puts me off, for some people it is a selling point, but I am not sure that I am a fan


Yeah, the size is a problem for me, too. I mean, I don't like dinky things, but the iPhone is already fairly large by phone standards.



> * I've heard reports that the Galaxy S has this cheap feel to it, they say its good but doesn't feel like a top of the line phone


Yeah, I've heard the same. It's a mostly plastic affair.



> Also, have you considered the HTC Desire HD? it's just as fast, has a bigger screen, uses a Super LCD panel, comes with Android 2.2?


Nope. I haven't considered it for one main reason: It's not available here in Canada and no carriers are announcing support for it. I'm not in a position to outright buy a $600-700 phone online, either - I'm going to need it subsidized with a term contract.


----------



## net-cat (Oct 10, 2010)

Personally, I got myself an HTC Droid Eris a few weeks ago. Yes, it's old as fuck. (Still running 2.1.) But it does what I need. I have like... three apps installed.

MP3 Streaming App (For listening to the local news station.)
ConnectBot (SSH Client)
Pandora

I also rooted it for the Wireless Tether capability. (Though that's a limit imposed by Verizon, not Google.)



Runefox said:


> Each Android-based phone has the potential to be using a different CPU or differently-clocked CPU, different speeds and amounts of RAM and different storage methods, also with varying speeds. Because of this, apps (to a lesser extent) and (especially) games are difficult to develop for the platform in general unless you're developing for a specific phone. The Samsung Galaxy S Captivate, for example, has 326MB of RAM and runs a 1GHz Samsung Hummingbird S5PC110. The HTC Desire runs a 1GHz Qualcomm QSD 8250 with an AMD Z430 GPU, and has 512MB of RAM. Similar, but the difference in RAM and in how each CPU handles different tasks means that you can't simply design a game that will run the way you want it to run across every device. This is the major reason why I can't see gaming taking off on the Android platform - It's too varied a landscape. Imagine if every model of PS3 had different amounts of RAM and different CPU's, and certain games would only run on certain SKU's? Sure, this is (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong) the case with some iOS games and older iOS devices, but this is within the same line. You can be reasonably well-assured that current-gen apps that you create will run exactly the same on any current-gen iOS device, whereas with Android, you have no such guarantee. This is why gaming will not take off on the Android platform like it has on iOS, and unless stricter restrictions are placed on the platform itself, that's probably not going to change. This is also exactly why iOS devices are appealing to me - The one time where Apple's iron fist in design has been a good thing.


Er. First, all those different processors? All ARM cores. While there have been experimental ports of Android to other architectures, like x86, all Android-based consumer electronics are ARM-based. This will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future. (Unless intel gets off their collective asses and gets an x86-based SoC in production.) Now, even if they were based on different architectures, you do realize that Android apps are coded in Java, right? (Not Sun/Oracle Java. A custom, written-from-scratch version of Java that has been stripped down and, you know, optimized to not suck on mobile devices. That's why Oracle is suing Google.) There is a native-code software development kit, but Google highly discourages its use, to the point that the GUI code of an app still has to be written in their Java variant.



LLiz said:


> * Jailbreaking is a time bomb waiting to go off, don't rely on being able to do it forever, Apple will eventually stop it


No, they won't. Not in the useful life of the device, anyway. There is always another hole to exploit. In fact, I'd wager that the people who do the jailbreaks already know about many of them. They just don't release them until they're needed, so Apple won't patch it unless they also happen to notice it. You see a similar thing in the Wii homebrew community.


----------



## LLiz (Oct 10, 2010)

Aden said:


> A court ruled that jailbreaking is legal. The only way it'll end is if the jailbreaking teams suddenly all get wiped out in a freak earthquake or something.
> 
> And even if there was never another jailbreak release ever again, all you'd have to do is keep your iOS at the latest version that's jailbroken.



What I meant by that is that you'll find that big companies usually have a way of getting these kind of court decisions reversed. 



Runefox said:


> They still exist, but they're actually worse on the Galaxy S on the opposite side of the phone (holding it right-handed).


 
I never knew about the Galaxy's reception issues



Runefox said:


> ...? I'm not sure what this means. Both swipe the app pages from side to side?



In the application menu, like when you're looking for an app to launch, the iPhone has pages that you swipe left to right, android has a vertically scrolling list. I am more of a fan of left to right application selecting than vertical app lists, seems more natural. Samsung changed their Android OS to be horizontal like the iPhone. 

Also, I hear the Galaxy comes packed full of zillions of annoying and useless applications pre-installed, plus I hear their widgets that they include with the phone are pretty useless. 



Runefox said:


> This can be done with a jailbroken iPhone, and the Galaxy S can't do this until Android 2.2 is released.


 
Ahh, yeah that's a Samsung feature (and I guess its also very carrier dependent), but I certainly remember a friend showing me the wifi function on his Galaxy. 

Yes, in Android 2.2 it is now an OS feature. 

The point that you need to jailbreak an iPhone to do it to me doesn't count as a phone feature, but yeah I am well aware that its very possible with a jailbroken iPhone. 



Runefox said:


> > * Swipe keyboard input system
> 
> 
> Ugh. UGH. No.



I am just going on what other people I know say, I personally am much more of a fan of physical keyboard, I'd even happily sacrifice screen real estate for one (as long as its a good one) thats why I am waiting to see when the Desire Z will get an Aussie release.


----------



## Runefox (Oct 10, 2010)

net-cat said:


> Er. First, all those different processors? All ARM cores. While there have been experimental ports of Android to other architectures, like x86, all Android-based consumer electronics are ARM-based. This will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future. (Unless intel gets off their collective asses and gets an x86-based SoC in production.)


That's fine, but each phone's processor will inevitably vary in performance between one chip and another, at least for certain tasks. Just because they're the same architecture doesn't make them equal - Take AMD and Intel for example. Same architecture, radically different designs and focus. Then there's the varying amounts of system RAM available for each device and the varying speeds of their storage media (as well as the wildly variable speeds of external SD memory). What this means is that it's not possible to expect a certain level of performance across multiple devices the same way you can with iOS, and what that means is that games will never be a focus of the Android platform unless the platform dictates the exact chipsets to be used in each generation of devices. Apps won't (and don't) feel the sting of this variation too-too much, but I've actually been reading that this kind of thing has been a problem with Android app developers in general (varying screen sizes and functionality, too, cause a lot of grief).



> I never knew about the Galaxy's reception issues


Yep. Supposedly it's not as bad with different carriers, but all the same, it has reception problems.


----------



## CaptainCool (Oct 10, 2010)

almost all newer phones have reception problems if you hold them "wrong". if i hold my samsung f480i juust right my reception drops to 0 bars almost instantly


----------



## Carenath (Oct 10, 2010)

Runefox said:


> ... allowed you to set aside a section of space on an i-device for storage. On that note, yes, I hate iTunes.


Nope, Apple don't permit you access to the filesystem or storage space.. it's possible on a jailbroken phone, if through nothing else than WinSCP.



Runefox said:


> They still exist, but they're actually worse on the Galaxy S on the opposite side of the phone (holding it right-handed).


As a Galaxy S owner, the Apple-style touch-of-death does not afflict the phone. But like every other 3G phone I've owned, if you hold it the right way, the signal strength is attenuated.



Runefox said:


> Grass is always greener on the other side.  I've heard the same about Android users and iPhone.


I sold my iPhone 3G to buy an HTC Touch Pro2 (a Windows Mobile 6.5 device) as at the time I concurred with my two close friends that Apple had a stranglehold on the platform. Features that had been standard on smartphones and dumbphones alike, were removed or needlessly restricted on Apple's platform for no reason other than Apple wanting to dictate *how* their users should use *their* phone. Windows Mobile might not have had as many apps, but there were apps for everything I used.



Runefox said:


> This can be done with a jailbroken iPhone, and the Galaxy S can't do this until Android 2.2 is released.


Not true. I can use my phone as a wireless hotspot, as well as, plugging the phone into the computer with a USB cable and tethering as normal. And neither come with any silly operator restrictions. And this is with the default firmware that comes with the phone, i've not rooted or modified my handset in any way since I bought it. I havn't felt any pressing need to.



Runefox said:


> Ugh. *UGH*. No.


What can I say, I love swype, it's made texting on a virtual keyboard a breeze. It's not on by default, you switch to it at your own choice, switching back to Samsung's regular apple-like keyboard is simple.[/QUOTE]

I've not seen anything particularly compelling in iOS 4 to tempt me into coughing up â‚¬350 for an iPhone 4 (that's with an 18mnth contract and mid-level plan), vs the â‚¬130 my Samsung cost me on the same plan from the same carrier. It is a good phone, no doubting that, but for me the price, Apple's needless restrictions and crippling (and people say Verizon was bad), make it unworth the investment that it is for the 'privilege'. It offers nothing technologically that I can't get from my Android device, which itself comes with the bonus of not having a restricted hardware platform (that is, nothing stops you from flashing custom firmware to the phone if you don't like what Samsung are offering).


----------



## LLiz (Oct 11, 2010)

You reckon people will all jump ship to Microsoft by the end of the day?


----------



## Runefox (Oct 11, 2010)

LLiz said:


> You reckon people will all jump ship to Microsoft by the end of the day?


 
Supposedly, people are saying that Microsoft's business in general is relying on exactly that happening. Kinda scary, huh? Imagine if that were true? Imagine a world without Windows, without Outlook or Exchange, no more IIS or Internet Explorer. What would people jump ship to? *NIX? Or would Apple swoop in and absorb the Windows market share with their far more closed, monopolistic and draconian business model? Hmm...

Kind of weird how I have conflicting views of the PC world and the mobile phone world.  I see the landscape as completely reversed - Tighter controls on the hardware equals good thing in the mobile market. I don't really agree with the tight controls on the *software*, but yeah. I'm still not entirely decided, but I think considering the prospect of jailbreaking to remove at least some of the software restrictions Apple imposes on the iPhone makes it quite attractive. I think I want to actually have both in my hand before I make a decision either way, though, since both options will end up costing me the same.


----------



## Carenath (Oct 12, 2010)

Runefox said:


> no more IIS or Internet Explorer.


No one would really notice to be honest. I also doubt anyone would care either.



Runefox said:


> Tighter controls on the hardware equals good thing in the mobile market.


I suppose it depends on the controls. If by controls, you mean Microsoft dictating the minimum specifications for Windows Phone 7, and, Apple producing their own hardware, fixing the specifications on which iOS runs, then I can agree with you, insofar as this enforces a standard where no standard exists for a given platform. The end user can plainly expect all Windows Phone 7 devices to have certain minimums, while different manufacturers can add whatever additions or increases they choose (e.g. more RAM).

However, the Apple-level of control over hardware, conflicts with my use case, this was my reason for switching to WinMo previously and now to Android. When I buy a mobile device, I prefer it to be as open as possible to allow me to do, just about, whatever I want with it. I'm that kind of hacker by nature. This is why I consistantly jailbroke and unlocked my iPhones, I was not going to permit Apple to dictate what I could run on, and what I could do with, and on whos network, *my hardware*. I say mine, because once I've paid for it, the device is mine to do what I like with.
However, this level of hardware (and software) control that Apple is so famous for, is a path Microsoft is taking, and I disagree with it vehemently.


----------



## Aden (Oct 12, 2010)

Carenath said:


> However, this level of hardware (and software) control that Apple is so famous for, is a path Microsoft is taking, and I disagree with it vehemently.


 
That's going to be the trend. The average smartphone user is quite content to play around in the sandbox that they're given. Unlike the world of personal computers, people don't _expect_ their smartphone to be open at this point in time. If the market surveys show that 97% of your users want to use their phone for making calendars, getting email, and playing games, there's not much incentive to deal with the exponential level of extra hassle that would come from opening up the platform.

So get ready for Dev Team: WinMo division, I guess.


----------



## Carenath (Oct 12, 2010)

Aden said:


> That's going to be the trend. The average smartphone user is quite content to play around in the sandbox that they're given. Unlike the world of personal computers, people don't _expect_ their smartphone to be open at this point in time. If the market surveys show that 97% of your users want to use their phone for making calendars, getting email, and playing games, *there's not much incentive to deal with the exponential level of extra hassle that would come from opening up the platform*.
> 
> So get ready for Dev Team: WinMo division, I guess.


 I remain in staunch opposition to that trend, and I voted with my wallet this time buy buying into an open platform.
I also, do not buy, the statement I highlighted in bold, not for one second. Apples desire to control their platform, initially to prevent any applications being made available on it, then eventually bowing to the consumer pressure (when a lot of users hack your product to run apps on it that you don't provide.. you realise you can cash in so you make it a feature), has seen them take extraordinary measures to maintain exclusivity agreements with carriers (which should be illegal), has seen them go to great strides to prevent phones being unlocked and unrestricted, and has taken great measures to keep the carriers themselves happy at the expense of the users. It has all been about Apple creating a custom user experience and taking existing technology and doing something radical with it that no one else bothered to do before.

In contrast, the WinMo platform was clunky, sometimes sluggish and generally unusable without a number of HTC's customisations and skins that made the whole experience more user-friendly. I never cared too much for user friendly, I just wanted something that worked and did what I wanted without any artificial limitations being placed on me at the whims of business interests. My WinMo phone wasn't network-locked and I didn't need to hack it and hold back on software updates to make sure I could keep using the phone the way I wanted to.

It goes without saying, I am *not* Apple's target audience, and as Microsoft moves to cash in on Apple's discovery and the re-invigorated mobile market, they're no longer targeting me either. The big difference between Apple and Microsoft, however, is that third-party companies made phones and licensed Windows Phone 7 as opposed to buying Microsoft-made devices. So those third parties generally just restricted the phones to booting signed ROMs, hacks were released that patched the bootloaders allowing them to boot any other ROM that worked on that hardware. The XDA Developers community sprung up around this, they are the 3% that Apple and Microsoft no longer appear to target.

This is also a moot point.. while Apple chooses to retain tight control over the hardware and software.. and Microsoft is to an extent following that trend.. Android is not excluded. While the majority of the Android OS is open-source (there are closed elements due to licensing and royalties), phone manufacturers and carriers like Verizon are not obligated to make the platform on their device, open. Not all manufacturers have unrestricted hardware and the platform can be restricted at the whims of the carrier and the manufacturer. The open-ness gives manufacturers and carriers more freedom copy Apple.. while giving the likes of me the freedom to have a phone and a platform I want.

Either way.. in this market.. everyone can have their cake and eat it.


----------



## ArielMT (Oct 12, 2010)

LLiz said:


> What I meant by that is that you'll find that big companies usually have a way of getting these kind of court decisions reversed.


 
Won't happen.  It's less expensive to skirt the issue within the bounds of court rulings.  For example, back in the mid-'90s, Microsoft agreed in the famous Justice Department Consent Decree to stop refusing to offer Windows without their Web browser bundled, and they did it by starting to declare their Web browser a fundamentally integrated component of Windows, monopolizing Netscape out of business anyway.

Likewise, Apple will also stay within the letter of the law while making life as inconvenient for jailbreakers as they can.  How effective they are remains to be seen.


----------



## LLiz (Oct 13, 2010)

By the way, Android 3.0 is expected to be officially announced within the next week, and its likely that Sony will officially announce their PSP 2 on or around that time. 

The PSP 2 is supposed to be an Android 3.0 mobile phone with a Sony online service, almost full backwards compatibility with PSP 1, as well as new PS3 like graphics. 

I've decided to hold off from my purchase a little longer to see how this all pans out.


----------

