# Music, or possibly a synchronised throwing of instruments down stairs!



## Rhodri (Sep 5, 2011)

Hello FAF. Today, you are going to learn about Naked City. Why? Because I feel that this is an important part of any musical collection, and allows you to claim that you listen to nearly every genre. Often all at once! Also, it's pretty good music to trip too. Or horrifically bad, that depends on your mindset, I guess.  For anyone that would consider themselves fans of indy music, this is  where you should be. This is about as far from mainstream as you can  possibly get, while still being music.

So, who and what are Naked City. Well, they were an avant-garde music group led by the twisted genius of John Zorn, a composer and saxophone player. The idea behind the group was to see how far composition and improvisation could be taken with the traditional rock group lineup. Sadly, they ceased performing together in 1993, give or take a brief 2003 reunion tour of European festivals. That is why we have recorded music though, so don't let that dissuade you. The line up consisted of John Zorn (saxophone), Bill Frisell (guitar), Fred Frith (bass), Wayne Horvitz (keyboards), Joey Baron (drums) as well as vocals by Yamatsuka Eye, Bob Dorough and Mike Patton. 

What can you expect to hear? Good question! When I said nearly every genre, it wasn't too far off the mark. Elements of Jazz, Post Rock, Classical, Heavy Metal, Psychedelic, Country, Punk Rock, Noise, Surf, Grindcore and Sludge can be picked out, as well as quite a few others. You're going to hear the tempo and genre changing very, very frequently. Most songs are played incredibly quickly, but you'll often have one that starts off as thrash, breaks to a reggae beat 7 seconds in, adds a little bit of 4 to the floor rock and then straight back into thrash, wrapping up the entire song in just under 31 seconds. Vocals are just that. Singing just doesn't quite convey it properly. Yamatsuka Eye is a master of grunts, gurgles, screams and very occasionally singing, he adds a vital part of the Naked City experience, especially in the album "Grand Guignol". One succinct description had them as "An audio tour of dada".  For those of you not familiar with dada, here is a handy link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada. Be prepared for as many as 42 songs on a single album! 

Here is a list of their studio albums. I would recommend 'Grand Guignol', or the self-titled album 'Naked City' for anyone considering looking for a place to start, but all of the below are good. (Worth bearing in mind that the first track is 17 minutes long on Grand Guignol, so perhaps skip to track two and come back to it later.)
Naked City (1989),
Torture Garden (1990),
Heretic, Jeux des Dames Cruelles (1992),
Grand Guignol (1992),
Leng Tch'e (1992),
Absinthe (1993),
Radio (1993),
The Complete Studio Recordings (2005).

And now, some links, to give you a taster of what you can expect.

Speed Freaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4C9nPV0zgA

Batman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i56QO9O8qso

The Prestidigitator: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kCe1DLs1Kk

Thrash Jazz Assassin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGkpIQZZN_w

And finally, The James Bond Theme, as it simply must be done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jljOQP4OlB0

And that is that. There shall now be a small competition for the best description of what you just heard. Prize to be disclosed later. It will *not *be a cookie!


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## Hateful Bitch (Sep 5, 2011)

Naked City? More like Wicked Shitty

You described it best in the thread title.
There are some good parts in these songs though but it's easy to forget about those when the songs fuck themselves and die right after.

It's probably an acquired taste. I'm sure after a while scrap metal would start to taste good too.
Trying to like this isn't worth it in the long run.

Bad band.


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## Slend (Sep 5, 2011)

bullshit just b/c it's not your taste doesn't mean there's no merit in it
i for one love naked city & can appreciate the freeform jazz aspect of the band


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## Hateful Bitch (Sep 5, 2011)

It's not that it's not my taste. It's just a terrible excuse for music.


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## Cyril (Sep 5, 2011)

listened to that first link
yeah sure I agree that it's music. I don't agree that it's good music. There is no flow, no transition, it's just an amalgam of various musical clips put together and called a song.


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## Slend (Sep 5, 2011)

Hateful Bitch said:


> It's not that it's not my taste. It's just a terrible excuse for music.



who died & made you queen of music


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## Namba (Sep 5, 2011)

I stop at noisecore... It has to sound to me like it was thought out some kind of way or it's just people BSing. Sure, it'susic, but... not my thing, ya know? Still, no one really can say what's music and what isn't. Some people looked at the Beatles as noise and bullshit, but that was old people mostly.


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## Slend (Sep 5, 2011)

exactly
it's one thing to say that it isn't your taste
that is okay, not everyone has the same opinion
but saying that it isn't even a legitimate art form just b/c you don't like it is fucking stupid


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## Namba (Sep 5, 2011)

Example: [yt]-SmnGR73nLM[/yt]
Completely done in one take.


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## Slend (Sep 5, 2011)

the fiancÃ©e is their best album imho


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## Namba (Sep 5, 2011)

I figured you listened to them or at least would like them. I'd have to say Wars and Rumors was my favorite... IDK it changes; they're both pretty different from each other.


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## LizardKing (Sep 5, 2011)

Sounds like music for an advert about a bank's diversity or some shit.


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## Hateful Bitch (Sep 5, 2011)

Slend said:


> exactly
> it's one thing to say that it isn't your taste
> that is okay, not everyone has the same opinion
> but saying that it isn't even a legitimate art form just b/c you don't like it is fucking stupid



If you have such low standards for art, then _anything _is art. And if everything is art, how can you truly appreciate it?

Dumb.


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## chapels (Sep 5, 2011)

Hateful Bitch said:


> If you have such low standards for art, then _anything _is art. And if everything is art, how can you truly appreciate it?
> 
> Dumb.


the same way you appreciate anything that isn't art. through the means with which you perceive it. lost of art is meant to communicate a feeling, a place, a mindset, etc. just because it isn't played in 4/4 time does not make it any less an expression of human nature and/or a reflection of what we are surrounded with skewed through the filter of the human psyche. you don't have to believe me, but you also don't have to argue the merits of art with people who've spent enough years studying it to build a terrible, pretentious sentence like that one. now sit down while the big kids talk, you silly bitch

now that that's out of the way, i love what john zorn does. as backwards as it may sound, i was introduced to him through naked city and worked through his back catalogue from there. masada is fantastic and there is a ton of great stuff in there although i haven't listened through all of it. it's another project where he tests the limits of what can be done with a limited set of musicians, but instead of rock he is pushing the extent of what can be done with traditional jewish scales. his record label is awesome too and houses a bunch of great expirimental and advant-garde music. i'm sure a bunch of people know of merzbow already, but another cool band to check out if you dig naked city would be ruins. it's something like a more spastic take on what hella does, just a guitarist and a drummer going bat-shit wild. definitely worth checking out. i'm listening to the self titled right now

edit: here's something off that cd since typing "planets - planets" likely won't net you a damned thing in google
[yt]P14IAblfaNs[/yt]


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## Evan of Phrygia (Sep 5, 2011)

Honestly, I don't like it. I'm left with a confused headache. No transitionary supplementation. Just kind of like "oh shit, we're doing something else"

If you want to mix genres around, maybe try Between the Buried and Me, or look at some of the more experimental classical composers.

Just honestly find something that's SMOOTH. It's so choppy, I walk away from this song a little pissed off.


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## Bittertooth (Sep 5, 2011)

Kinda cool, but not really of interest to me.  I'll stick to Venetian Snares for my fast spastic disjointed music needs.


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## Rhodri (Sep 5, 2011)

Well this got the response I was expecting, at least. This is one of those bands that has no middle ground, you either like them, or you quite violently do not. One of my flatmates heard me listening to this once, and described it as "The sound of an elephant being raped with a saxophone." Or possibly it was the saxophone being raped by the elephant, I'm not too certain on that quote. He at least got points for wit, so far there are no contenders for the as yet to be disclosed mystery prize that is definitely not going to be a cookie. 

That there are two whole people here that liked it, I find impressive. That brings the number of people I know of that like this band up to a staggering 4 people. Bearing in mind that I have been to more countries than I have fingers and met a very large number of people. 

 I didn't really believe that this was going to receive universal acceptance, but that wasn't why I posted this thread. I thought that this was an interesting band, made up of some very talented musicians, and worth a listen just to highlight what is possible with music. I spend most of my day listening to music, I am a musician and have studied sound-engineering (I would say that I *am *a sound-engineer, but I'm not actually employed), and so believe me when I say that I hear a lot of the same things over and over again. Within any genre, with very few exceptions, eventually an accepted form will develop and most of the artists within that genre will more or less adhere to that form. Now, this is not to detract from any of those musicians. It still takes a staggering amount of time to get to the point where you can accurately replicate a certain style, and most of them do bring something new to the table, but the overwhelming same-ness does frustrate me somewhat. The majority of my favorite bands and musicians are the ones that are the hardest to pin a genre to, or ones that don't stick to any form at all such as Naked City, Frank Zappa or Venetian Snares.

Perhaps the next band that I do a thread like this on will be slightly more acceptable to the general masses. Perhaps not. It is always amusing to see the revulsion on the faces of those that don't like this kind of thing.

Now, some responses to what people have said. I'm too lazy to sort out quotes, so you'll need to pick out the one relevant to what you said yourself.

Firstly, now I think most of your realise this, except perhaps for Hateful Bitch, but music is of course art. Art is open to interpretation. What does this mean? Well it means that you are entitled to your opinion, and no one can tell you that your opinion is wrong. When it comes down to it, your opinion is the only one that matters to you, and so you should stick to it, assuming that you have put some kind of rational thought into it. However, simply because you don't like them, does not make them any less talented, or indeed 'shit'. I once had a discussion along these lines with someone about virtuoso guitarists such as Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen e.t.c.. Now, neither of us actually like the music of these guitarists (though I think Vai's performance in the movie Crossroads was perfect for the role. Go watch that film by the way, it's about the blues and the time old legend of the musician who sells his soul to the devil for the ability to play. Try to ignore the fact that the karate kid is in it.), however he was trying to tell me that these musicians were 'shit'. My response to this was a much longer winded version of what I have said here. You are entitled to not like them, but that doesn't make them any less capable or talented musicians.

As I said, I think that most of your realised this. I just wanted to make sure that was understood.

Luti-Kriss. Exactly. You could not have said it better. The fact that you don't like this band only serves to make your statement more valid. Sadly, unlike The Beatles, I don't think Naked City will ever out-sell the bible, but that is still very well put.

LizardKing. It's funny that you should say that. When I first heard this band, I was tripping on acid and a guy I knew stuck on their entire discography to sound-track our trip. Most of what I was hearing sounded like elevator music, you know, the incredibly bland, semi-classical drivel they play in elevators and when you are put on hold.

Chapels. Very well said indeed, sir. I quite liked the first paragraph of what you posted, the summary was outstanding. A+, sir, A+. Planets is an excellent tune, I shall have to track them down at some point, as well as trying to find more of Zorn's music. Have you heard anything by The Boredoms, one of Yamatsuka Eye's projects? 

This is Tides. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't like it. This isn't for everybody though, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. As an aside, this is composed music, and when performed live, it is faithfully replicated. I'm told though, that they used to go to jazz festivals and play fairly straight forward jazz (hah! straight-forward jazz. That's funny), then break into what you hear here, then back into more normal jazz.


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## Rhodri (Sep 5, 2011)

Bittertooth said:


> Kinda cool, but not really of interest to me.  I'll stick to Venetian Snares for my fast spastic disjointed music needs.



Hah! While I was typing my response, you ninja'd my mentioning Venetians Snares. Got to appreciate what he does. Especially Rossz Csillag Alatt Szuletett.

Perhaps I need to cut down on the tl;dr factor of my posts. My response is nearly as long as my original post.


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## Hateful Bitch (Sep 6, 2011)

t'was all in good fun <: I'm joking. The songs weren't that bad and they kind of seem like something I could get into at some point when I'm in a more suitable mood.

And sorry for bringing it up but I like that chapels called me pretentious in the same paragraph as "an expression of human nature and/or a reflection of what we are surrounded with skewed through the filter of the human psyche"

But anyway yeah. I'm not that much of a dick. I swear. _I promise_.

I kind of wish I had some similar bands to recommend you to make up for making you type things but no :c Well not much that I think you wouldn't have heard of before. Since I'm not into the really obscure stuff with my scary unknown music.
Kashiwa Daisuke maybe though even if it isn't as hardcore rar rar music as Naked City. But it constantly falls apart so maybe you'll like it idk.


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## chapels (Sep 6, 2011)

i called my own sentence pretentious, you misread it



> Chapels. Very well said indeed, sir. I quite liked the first paragraph of what you posted, the summary was outstanding. A+, sir, A+. Planets is an excellent tune, I shall have to track them down at some point, as well as trying to find more of Zorn's music. Have you heard anything by The Boredoms, one of Yamatsuka Eye's projects?



i have heard the boredoms but nothing i listened to really stuck to me, even after repeated listens. i wanted to like it but i couldn't. i only have two cds of theirs, though. super ae and pop tatari. i'm probably going to give pop tatari another listen now that you bring them up. i'm sure i can find something i'll like on a cd where the first track is titled 'noise ramones'. (and having just thrown it on while i was writing this, i'm obviously a goofball who wasn't ready to hear it. i'm definitely digging this) i did find out about ooioo from there though, and i really enjoyed that. i've only listened to a few other eye projects. hanatarash is fun but more than likely way more enjoyable live... fires, destruction and all. it's a shame i'll probably never see it. i also just found out he collaborated with battles (and i _have_ my machines already!), so i'm going to have to get gloss drop because i like both of them.

most of the rest of my noise jams are based more closely in the realm of composed tunes asides from the obvious jumpoffs (gerogerigegege, merzbow, sightings, wolf eyes) but i'm always up to try something different. i've got experience as a sound engineer as well, so i feel you on the over-exposure. noise is like a pallate cleanser for the ear in that sense, there's an abundance of awesome ideas and new sounds that go underutilized and it's refreshing to hear them


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## Slend (Sep 7, 2011)

Hateful Bitch said:


> t'was all in good fun <: I'm joking. The songs weren't that bad and they kind of seem like something I could get into at some point when I'm in a more suitable mood.
> 
> I'm not that much of a dick. I swear. _I promise_.



when considering the vehemence w/ which you dismissed this as art, MULTIPLE TIMES, i have to say that i don't believe you


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## Slend (Sep 7, 2011)

also boredoms fucking rule man have you listened to their album pop tatari????


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## chapels (Sep 7, 2011)

yes


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## Rhodri (Sep 8, 2011)

In the process of obtaining Pop Tatari as I type this. Looking forward to hearing it.

Not enough coffee in my system to yet to compose a more interesting response.


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## cad (Sep 8, 2011)

I like this band. Quite an interesting experience, those songs are. I have to take a closer look on this at some point.


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## Slend (Sep 10, 2011)

yeah rhodri this boredoms album is super great
very fun


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