# Kingdom Hearts and The Easily Simplified Fraction...



## CinnamonApples (Sep 30, 2009)

... is rather unremarkable. It's pretty much Kingdom Hearts: Crisis Core except even more monotonous and boring. So, as much as I'm not enjoying it, how are the rest of you enjoying it (if you are)?


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## SailorYue (Sep 30, 2009)

i plan on opening a gamefly account to rent it once i move in with my Boyfriend


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 1, 2009)

That's what you get for buying a game based off on the characters that ruined the franchise.


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## Nezumi7 (Oct 1, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> That's what you get for buying a game based off on the characters that ruined the franchise.



HEY.

It wasn't *JUST* Organization XIII that ruined the franchise.

Granted... they had a *lot* to do with it... but I personally blame plot-holes and convoluted storytelling near the end.

Which, of course, O13 was apart of.

But still.

*STILL*.

(I still do like Kingdom Hearts, however I doubt I'll actually play anything that's not a part of the main game line. Granted, Birth and 358/2 both look to add plot and stuff, I honestly doubt the games would be any good. I would like to be wrong though.)

(...besides, this 'Xion' nonsense is nonsensical. Just my two cents.)


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 1, 2009)

They ruined it when they focused too mach on the dark broody stuff, the original characters with less depth than a pond, and fangirls.


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## Stratelier (Oct 1, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> ...and fangirls.


Yeah.  "Girl" is one of the top three words you should NEVER combine "fan" with.


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## Lobar (Oct 1, 2009)

When has Kingdom Hearts ever *not* been monotonous and boring?


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## Xaerun (Oct 1, 2009)

Eh. Somethin' to do. I like the idea of the multiplayer, but the way it's actually implemented is... lacking.


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## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Oct 1, 2009)

Fractions?


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## Lukar (Oct 1, 2009)

Good God, only a few games in and people say that the franchise is ruined.

Anyway... I'm getting the game once I get a DS. And if the OP is right, I'll love the game, because I fell in love with Crisis Core from start to (very long) end.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 1, 2009)

FrancisBlack said:


> Fractions?



Kingdom Hearts _358/2_ Days.



Nezumi7 said:


> Granted... they had a *lot* to do with it... but I personally blame plot-holes and convoluted storytelling near the end.



*cough* Nojima *cough*


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## Sassy (Oct 1, 2009)

CinnamonApples said:


> Kingdom Hearts _358/2_ Days.
> 
> 
> 
> *cough* Nojima *cough*


It's pronounced "Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days over Two"; and if you'd _played_ the game you'd know that it's pronounced like this and not like a fraction~


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 1, 2009)

Who would waste their time playing the game based on the thing that ruined KH?


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## Sassy (Oct 1, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Who would waste their time playing the game based on the thing that ruined KH?


What exactly "ruined" Kingdom Hearts; again?
Oh wait. I get it. You're a Popularity-Hater, right? It's popular so it MUST be bad.


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## Gonebatty (Oct 1, 2009)

I just didnt like it. Played it once. I only liked the ships.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 1, 2009)

Sassy said:


> What exactly "ruined" Kingdom Hearts; again?
> Oh wait. I get it. You're a Popularity-Hater, right? It's popular so it MUST be bad.



Fail.

I loved KH1 because it was focused on Disney, and the plot was easy to follow. Then shit happens in KH:CoM when they include OrgXIII, a.k.a. shallow characters made for the fangirls. KH2 then made the whole game easier, even with the stuff from Final Mix.

Thankfully BBS is setting up the story prior to the crappiness of OrgXIII, and has actually new Disney worlds, and so far it says that the focus will remain on the Disney aspects.


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## Sassy (Oct 1, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Fail.
> 
> I loved KH1 because it was focused on Disney, and the plot was easy to follow. Then shit happens in KH:CoM when they include OrgXIII, a.k.a. shallow characters made for the fangirls. KH2 then made the whole game easier, even with the stuff from Final Mix.
> 
> Thankfully BBS is setting up the story prior to the crappiness of OrgXIII, and has actually new Disney worlds, and so far it says that the focus will remain on the Disney aspects.


You know Birth by Sleep ties into 358/2 Days, yes? That Ven from BBS is given his first background in 358/2, and that the intrinsic relationship between Sora/Riku/Kairi and Roxas/Axel/Xion are both related to the trinity of Ven/Terra/Aqua? Like it or not; 358/2 is heavily important to the over-arcing storyline. And if you'd _played_ 358/2 you'd see just how much depth the Organization members have; and what truly motivates them. In-fact, without 358/2 days you'd never know that Xigbar (in his time before he was a Nobody; when he was known as Braig) knew Ven in person ~ which is going to be a very important aspect of BBS.

There are other cool facts revealed in 358/2too, such as the origin of the Synch Blade ability (Roxas gains this ability when he absorbs Xion; and as Sora retains all of Roxas' abilities this is passed on to him), so for the Kingdom Hearts lore fan it's definitely worth a play.

Plus Xion is true luv <3


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 1, 2009)

But that doesn't stop them from being pointless characters who are just added for the sake of fangirlism. Really, if you are required to have a magazine (Ultima) JUST to explain their typical character perk (and again, character perk =/= character), then that's fail writing.


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## Sassy (Oct 1, 2009)

Or you could play 358/2 Days and know everything the Ultimania outlines, in-game?


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## Imperial Impact (Oct 1, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> But that doesn't stop them from being pointless characters who are just added for the sake of fangirlism. Really, if you are required to have a magazine (Ultima) JUST to explain their typical character perk (and again, character perk =/= character), then that's fail writing.


 Holy shit, This.

I don't understand the likeness in Roxas.

I _really _don't.

Also, What's with the Squall -> Leon crap?


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## Duality Jack (Oct 1, 2009)

Kingdom hearts was a bastard blend in my opinion I lost interest lest then 30 mins into the 1st. Too uppity.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 1, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Or you could play 358/2 Days and know everything the Ultimania outlines, in-game?



Again, what's the point?

If you introduce characters who are supposedly very important, you do NOT need to play "supplementals". Supplementals are just meant to add some backstory, not something that is important.

And again, all of those are just playing to their single personality and making it superfluous.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 1, 2009)

Sassy said:


> What exactly "ruined" Kingdom Hearts; again?
> Oh wait. I get it. You're a Popularity-Hater, right? It's popular so it MUST be bad.



Fallacy: Listening to Okamichan. You know, the whole "All fans have the same preferences" mentality and the "I KNOW Quality because I am RIGHT!!!"-type.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 1, 2009)

Sassy said:


> It's pronounced "*Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight* Days *over Two*"; and if you'd _played_ the game you'd know that it's pronounced like this and *not like a fraction*~



Still a fraction, hun.


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## Sassy (Oct 1, 2009)

Hurrrr

Obviously you still don't get it. It's retelling 358 days, over the space of 2 days. Hence, "Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days, over two". Or to put it in a sentence; "I'm going to tell you about the last *Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days*, *over* the course of the next *Two* days".

Understand yet?


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 1, 2009)

So that's what the title means.


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## Sassy (Oct 1, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> So that's what the title means.


Yup. You preee~eeetty much only need play the game for...10 minutes, to clue in on that.


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## Ragnarok-Cookies (Oct 2, 2009)

Question: Why do people act like Kingdom Hearts 1 was A AMAZING Game. The only reason people liked that is due to the Disney in it. There was enough dark/plot other then Disney that LED to 2, so it kept it just at a good entraining level. 

2 and whatever actually added something to the game that made me not feel like I was playing a dumbed down RPG for kids. Although I'm not a fanboy, I'm just saying it's also a good game. With a more substantial plot, I mean Square did take part in it.

It's like saying 7 ruined final fantasy, bitch all you want. But it's still a good game.


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## ÃedÃ¡n (Oct 2, 2009)

I liked the first
second was choppy but I liked it anyway.
Chain of memories was awful.

all in my opinion.
I havn't played any of the other games available though.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 2, 2009)

Ragnarok-Cookies said:


> Question: Why do people act like Kingdom Hearts 1 was A AMAZING Game. The only reason people liked that is due to the Disney in it. There was enough dark/plot other then Disney that LED to 2, so it kept it just at a good entraining level.
> 
> 2 and whatever actually added something to the game that made me not feel like I was playing a dumbed down RPG for kids. Although I'm not a fanboy, I'm just saying it's also a good game. With a more substantial plot, I mean Square did take part in it.
> 
> It's like saying 7 ruined final fantasy, bitch all you want. But it's still a good game.




1) Nostalgia filter. It was like the first PS2 game I owned, but I still think I enjoyed Shadow HEarts more. (Especially Covenant.) 

2) Fan hatred. You're not allowed to like Square.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 2, 2009)

Ah, so it means Nomura can't do shit about making titles.

And no - it's not nostalgia. 1 has the decency to focus a lot more on Disney characters and yet tell a simple but effective story - not a kiddy RPG. 2 ruined by adding nonsensical characters and a wumbo-jumbo plot if, as you say, "for teens".


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## Xaerun (Oct 2, 2009)

Finished it today, Deep Dive was... disappointing. Oh well. Apart from that I enjoyed it... apart from a few heartless here and there.

Has anyone tried out the multiplayer?


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 2, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> And no - it's not nostalgia. 1 has the decency to focus a lot more on Disney characters and yet tell a simple but effective story



And yet people complained at it for doing JUST THAT. 

Too bad fans don't all have a hive mentality...but if they did we'd just be playing the same boring-ass games over and over again and would have done so since the Arcades.


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## Wait Wait (Oct 2, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Hurrrr
> 
> Obviously you still don't get it. It's retelling 358 days, over the space of 2 days. Hence, "Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days, over two". Or to put it in a sentence; "I'm going to tell you about the last *Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days*, *over* the course of the next *Two* days".
> 
> Understand yet?



the fact that you have to explain the title in such excruciating detail means it's a bad one


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## Sassy (Oct 2, 2009)

Wait Wait said:


> the fact that you have to explain the title in such excruciating detail means it's a bad one


I only have to explain it to people who haven't played it. If you'd played it, it'd be obvious how the title is supposed to read, douchebiscuit <3


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 2, 2009)

Sassy said:


> Hurrrr
> 
> Obviously you still don't get it. It's retelling 358 days, over the space of 2 days. Hence, "Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days, over two". Or to put it in a sentence; "I'm going to tell you about the last *Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days*, *over* the course of the next *Two* days".
> 
> Understand yet?



I get what it means you dumb-bot. :roll: That doesn't stop it from being a fraction.


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## Sassy (Oct 2, 2009)

So if I said "I worked about a weeks worth of work over the last two days" that would be a fraction? Of course it wouldn't. Just admit that your "witty" thread name was wrong and move on.
And stop trolling, or else I'll report you and you'll be banned~


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## Imperial Impact (Oct 2, 2009)

Sassy said:


> And stop trolling, or else I'll report you and you'll be banned~









Also, You can't report someone for something that dumb. GG


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## Xaerun (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey I just thought up somethin' crazy.
Who cares about how the title is read out? To each his own and all that.
Seriously. Stop it.


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## Adelio Altomar (Oct 2, 2009)

Honestly, I'm not even gonna look into this game. I was so disappointed by how insipid the first game or two was that I haven't even touched 'em since the summer of '06.

And with a title like that? I _hate_ fractions and I have to look at one to play a dumb game! D=



Sassy said:


> Hurrrr
> 
> Obviously you still don't get it. It's retelling 358 days, over the space of 2 days. Hence, "Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days, over two". Or to put it in a sentence; "I'm going to tell you about the last *Three Hundred and Fifty-Eight Days*, *over* the course of the next *Two* days".
> 
> Understand yet?



Don't care. It still makes for a stupid and ridiculous looking title.



Xaerun said:


> Hey I just thought up somethin' crazy.
> Who cares about how the title is read out? To each his own and all that.
> Seriously. Stop it.



Edit: Whoops. Didn't get to see your post there 'til I posted it, Xae.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 3, 2009)

And we're saying the way how the title is formed is stupid because it only showed superfluous stupidity. Hell, a simple title is much better than that.


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## Imperial Impact (Oct 3, 2009)

You know, Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep 2 would be a better title than   Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days.

Just saying.


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## Ratte (Oct 3, 2009)

Cool the shit.

Also, never played it.  Might, though.


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## Willis Ax (Oct 3, 2009)

I think I pretty much lost interest after KH 2.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 4, 2009)

I suggest skipping the GBA and DS games.


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## Neybulot (Oct 7, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> I suggest skipping the GBA and DS games.



I rather liked the GBA one. Much better than KH2.

As for the first one, people loved it because of how the game played, not because of Disney characters or anything like that, it was a generally fun yet simple action RPG. Now it's a little bland because there's been more of those shoved out there.

I figure I'll check this one out when I can find the spare cash.


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## Wait Wait (Oct 7, 2009)

i guess i'll get this when the price drops
reviews have not been kind to it


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## serpenttao (Oct 7, 2009)

Wait, wha, Easily Simplified Fraction... What the hell? AM I MISSING A KINGDOM HEARTS GAME HERE?!?!?!? hax...


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 7, 2009)

Neybulot said:


> I rather liked the GBA one. Much better than KH2.
> 
> As for the first one, people loved it because of how the game played, not because of Disney characters or anything like that, it was a generally fun yet simple action RPG.



The GBA ones suffer from what card games should never have - leveling up stats + random drawing = bad, bad idea. That, and the blandness of the setting.

Oh and featured OrgXIII.

And part of the charm in the first one IS the Disney. Denying that is really stupid, because many admit that they DO want to see etc. Disney worlds.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 7, 2009)

Wait Wait said:


> i guess i'll get this when the price drops
> reviews have not been kind to it



Maybe I've been looking at the wrong places but most reviews I had seen were relatively kind to this game.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 7, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> The GBA ones suffer from what card games should never have - leveling up stats + *random drawing* = bad, bad idea. That, and the blandness of the setting.





Errr...you *have* played it, right?


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## Ridge (Oct 7, 2009)

I wouldn't say that the Organization is a bad factor, just bad writing and terrible presentation.  I felt like they were misused.  In one instance, for example, you have Axel nice and kind but in others he's ruthless?  I felt like their characters were just developed poorly.

I LIKE the idea of Organization XIII, including their unique weapons and abilities.  Their personalities and dispositions leave something to be desired, however.  

Regardless, my biggest gripe with Fractions is that it was terribly slow and too much rehash from the previous games. The combat was lack luster, as if they took a step down from Kingdom Hearts II.  I would have liked it less if it felt more like an Organization.  Killing off half of them so early in the game was also rather pointless in my eyes.  I know the game was supposed to play along side Chain of Memories but when you introduce everyone in the beginning and then almost right away you get rid of half of them was rather...pointless.

Maybe I don't like Roxas, I don't know. I just felt he's not a character I can easily relate to.  

Oh well, my two cents.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 7, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> Errr...you *have* played it, right?



I was referring to the cards that don't return after reloading.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 7, 2009)

The Organization had the potential to bring up a lot of philosophical plot points, but alas, we get a generic group of baddies who have questionable intentions (seriously, they could've just ASKED Sora to kill heartless. I mean, it's not like you had to trick him, he would've gladly done it). 

Also, I would like the games to go more in-depth on why Yen Sid and Mickey are so... prejudice (for lack of a more appropriate term) towards Nobodies. I mean, isn't becoming a Nobody a natural process when a strong-willed person, for one reason or another, loses their heart?


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## serpenttao (Oct 7, 2009)

WolfoxOkamiChan: I've heard that discussion so many times before, but there's two sides to Kingdom Hearts; Square-Enix and Disney. Disney ruled the first game, then Square-Enix slowly started to take over and put its own storyline into it. I mean, let's be honest; The plot of the first game didn't really go around Kingdom Hearts itself. In Kingdom Hearts 2, it does. And Chain of Memories for GBA is just a filler for the story, didn't have anything to do with Kingdom Hearts at all.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 7, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> I was referring to the cards that don't return after reloading.



Oh, you mean the Premium cards.  I don't use them at all and didn't find any problems. It's not like you really NEED them.

I almost thought you were talking about getting the cards or how Riku's cards are sort of randomized. (Although you DO get those buffs for free in reverse Rebirth...in the GBA version there's a glitch you can exploit with Overdrive)

and my thoughts abou 358/2? Meh. I wasn't like "OMG I MUST GET THIS!". I only thought "Well nice, something to play on the bus." I'm more interested in Birth by Sleep anyways.


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## Ridge (Oct 7, 2009)

CinnamonApples said:


> The Organization had the potential to bring up a lot of philosophical plot points, but alas, we get a generic group of baddies who have questionable intentions (seriously, they could've just ASKED Sora to kill heartless. I mean, it's not like you had to trick him, he would've gladly done it).
> 
> Also, I would like the games to go more in-depth on why Yen Sid and Mickey are so... prejudice (for lack of a more appropriate term) towards Nobodies. I mean, isn't becoming a Nobody a natural process when a strong-willed person, for one reason or another, loses their heart?



The whole Nobody thing felt so unfinished.  You become a Heartless but a Nobody is also made if you're strong willed? I felt that was bad story telling on their part.  

I agree with you on the Organization having so much potential, but it just fell through the cracks. I suppose the writers were looking for antagonists quickly. If you notice in KH II you can't really relate to anyone whose picking on Sora; they're being bad to be bad it feels like and are psychotic on top of it all.  There was no emotional link to the enemies so fighting them felt very Dragon Ball Z in that "They're evil, they must die!"  

It's why Riku, for all his whining, made a good antagonist in the first Kingdom Hearts game.  At least in my book.


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## Neybulot (Oct 8, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> And part of the charm in the first one IS the Disney. Denying that is really stupid, because many admit that they DO want to see etc. Disney worlds.


Yes, I'm not saying that's not a reason why people liked it. It's just a minor one though. Heck, I personally wouldn't have played through it at all if the gameplay was like your usual Final Fantasy game.



WolfoxOkamichan said:


> The GBA ones suffer from what card games should never have - leveling up stats + random drawing = bad, bad idea.


It wasn't completely random unless you were slow at hitting L and R. 



serpenttao said:


> And Chain of Memories for GBA is just a filler for the story, didn't have anything to do with Kingdom Hearts at all.


What I found was a better understanding of certain things in KH2, and some stuff that didn't make sense for others made sense for me because it had taken place in Chain of Memories.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 8, 2009)

serpenttao said:


> WolfoxOkamiChan: I've heard that discussion so many times before, but there's two sides to Kingdom Hearts; Square-Enix and Disney. Disney ruled the first game, then Square-Enix slowly started to take over and put its own storyline into it. I mean, let's be honest; The plot of the first game didn't really go around Kingdom Hearts itself. In Kingdom Hearts 2, it does. And Chain of Memories for GBA is just a filler for the story, didn't have anything to do with Kingdom Hearts at all.



And yet, in the end, Disney owns KH.

YEAH THAT'S RIGHT. A lot of people seem to forget it as far as the fandom is concerned. Disney owns all of the original stuff. SE only owns the characters from FF and the trademarks like Potions and Chocobos.

Anyway, BBS is shaping up as something better than Fractions, if only because there is much more focus on the Disney worlds and the plot, so far, is less convulted.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 8, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Anyway, BBS is shaping up as something better than Fractions, if only because there is much more focus on the Disney worlds and *the plot, so far, is less convulted.*



Eh, the whole "Ven looks identical to Roxas" bit along with him saying, "erase me" in one of trailers makes me think otherwise. :|
Although I guess just about anything is less convoluted and contrived than Fractions/ Chain of Memories/ Kingdom Hearts II.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah it is.

Since it takes place prior to those, hopefully it would be less convulted.


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## furry fan (Oct 8, 2009)

you know unless you have actually played the game all the way thru please dont bitch about it it is an awsome game for any real fan of KH and answers a lot of questions


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## BlackDragonAlpha (Oct 8, 2009)

Well, the game is really awesome if you're really into it. I finished the game when it was in JP ver. Now, I'm playing the US ver. and I've got to say that Larxene is a real bitch!

Some bosses are really f**king hard. Like in Halloween Town and in Neverland. The most fav battle I love in this game is the 2nd to the last boss battle.


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 8, 2009)

Any real fan... Hmm... that's a hard question.

Usually they also include lion Sora fur-fantasizers, yaoi fangirls, and Nomura-worshipers.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 8, 2009)

furry fan said:


> you know unless you have actually played the game all the way thru please dont bitch about it it is an awsome game for any *real fan* of KH and answers a lot of questions



Seriously? _True_ fan? Gosh for a second I thought I was talking with the Sonic fandom. Anyway, I _have_ played the game, and I've watched _every_ cutscene in the game. It doesn't answer questions. If anything, it creates more.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 8, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Any real fan... Hmm... that's a hard question.
> 
> Usually they also include lion Sora fur-fantasizers, yaoi fangirls, and Nomura-worshipers.




What about the silent majority who just plays the games and doesn't go "WHAAAAAAA THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS AND I'M THE KING CUSTOMER SO YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME!!! I *KNOW* QUALITY"?


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## Ridge (Oct 8, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> What about the silent majority who just plays the games and doesn't go "WHAAAAAAA THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS AND I'M THE KING CUSTOMER SO YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME!!! I *KNOW* QUALITY"?



Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. =) Respecting that is key of course. Not everyone can say "This is my take on it!" and leave it at that. Some people need to sway one way or the other.

People who get defensive are just as bad; they aren't as secure in their thoughts.  

Really, remember its just a game and enjoy it. =)


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 9, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> What about the silent majority who just plays the games and doesn't go "WHAAAAAAA THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS AND I'M THE KING CUSTOMER SO YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME!!! I *KNOW* QUALITY"?



Yes, because having legit complaints is wrong. Having faux story with muddled plot is much better.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 9, 2009)

WolfoxOkamichan said:


> Yes, because having legit complaints is wrong. Having faux story with muddled plot is much better.



That includes them, just not the "THIS GAME SUCKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING IT!"-types. Eg, you.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 9, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> That includes them, just not the "THIS GAME SUCKS AND YOU SUCK FOR LIKING IT!"-types. Eg, you.



And me!


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 9, 2009)

I didn't say you suck.


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## serpenttao (Oct 9, 2009)

Why does this sound so damn familiar? I mean, everyone likes KH1, no one seems to like CoM or II, people seem to purely HATE 358/2 days of ESF or whatever it's called, and everyone's hoping BBS to be a great game made of pure awesomeness or something like that...


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## BlackDiablos (Oct 10, 2009)

Org had potential, Hell I have some chars for Orgs on Da
But
     hasty development for money bum-raped it.

The fighting in KH2 for me:
     Spam Reflect, not kidding you can kill Seph in less than 2 min without a potion.
Final boss fight was majorly disappointing, I don't mind it being like the FF games, but it was lacking.

So much potential, just all falls apart when you try to boot it out the door for cash when the cocaine bucket runs dry.

If I had a choice I'd rather Watch .hack, all series and play all games to grasp the full understanding of something so twisted. Rather than play a game series with barely any more plot than a kawaii desu anime

/rant


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## Ridge (Oct 10, 2009)

I actually liked Kingdom Hearts II.  I admit the combat was laughably easy but I didn't really see the Kingdom Hearts series as a major challenge.  I like the story and to me, Fractions did drop that ball terribly.


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## serpenttao (Oct 11, 2009)

Before I post this huge 10 page post; Easily Simplified Fractions IS the same game as 358/2 days, right?
.


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## CinnamonApples (Oct 11, 2009)

serpenttao said:


> Before I post this huge 10 page post; Easily Simplified Fractions IS the same game as 358/2 days, right?
> .



Yep.


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## Adamada (Oct 11, 2009)

I feel like the only person that enjoys all the Kingdom Hearts games, and their plots. :V


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## serpenttao (Oct 11, 2009)

Adamada said:


> I feel like the only person that enjoys all the Kingdom Hearts games, and their plots. :V



Well, you're not, because there's at least 2 of us now.

The epicly long post will have to wait until tomorrow, but I will come prepared and with notes; so get yourselves a good seat and a hot cup of coffee because you will have something to read...

(What, too much self-propaganda?)


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## MBlueWolf (Oct 11, 2009)

Adamada said:


> I feel like the only person that enjoys all the Kingdom Hearts games, and their plots. :V



You aren't. I just feel that adding to this thing will create a huge wah-fest from both sides rather than an intelligent debate. 

However, I must make one point. I still laugh at the one point against this game for most people is a lack of a "simple" storyline. Because using the gray matter while playing a game is a terrible thing, of course. We don't want that. We want games that we can drool and chuckle at. That's why shooters are so popular right now. I keep forgetting that. Damn you, Kingdom Hearts and other games, for making us have to think about storylines and ask questions! How dare you do that to us?!


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 11, 2009)

serpenttao said:


> Well, you're not, because there's at least 2 of us now.
> 
> The epicly long post will have to wait until tomorrow, but I will come prepared and with notes; so get yourselves a good seat and a hot cup of coffee because you will have something to read...
> 
> (What, too much self-propaganda?)



There are about three or four. There aren't many of us left...Fan Haters are ruining us. But then again though not everyone really thinks of what a plot might stand for. And I've never really had as many leftover questions as some people have.


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## Kipple (Oct 12, 2009)

MBlueWolf said:


> You aren't. I just feel that adding to this thing will create a huge wah-fest from both sides rather than an intelligent debate.
> 
> However, I must make one point. I still laugh at the one point against this game for most people is a lack of a "simple" storyline. Because using the gray matter while playing a game is a terrible thing, of course. We don't want that. We want games that we can drool and chuckle at. That's why shooters are so popular right now. I keep forgetting that. Damn you, Kingdom Hearts and other games, for making us have to think about storylines and ask questions! How dare you do that to us?!



truly, kingdom hearts is the Brothers Karamazov of our time

I don't hate the storyline because it's not simple, it's because, like almost all JRPG storylines, it's *superficially* complex. I'd rather have a simple yet honest storyline than some vague, pop-philosophy veneer of meaning.


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## MBlueWolf (Oct 12, 2009)

ETC said:


> truly, kingdom hearts is the Brothers Karamazov of our time
> 
> I don't hate the storyline because it's not simple, it's because, like almost all JRPG storylines, it's *superficially* complex. I'd rather have a simple yet honest storyline than some vague, pop-philosophy veneer of meaning.



I am not saying Kingdom Hearts is truly deep and philosophical. I just laugh that it is not simple enough for people. Basically, a game that is superficially complex needs to be dumbed down even more to be acceptable. I would be in agreement with those who said, "That game should be made to help us think more about things," than those who are basically saying, "This storyline hurts my brain pan."


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## Ridge (Oct 12, 2009)

MBlueWolf said:


> I am not saying Kingdom Hearts is truly deep and philosophical. I just laugh that it is not simple enough for people. Basically, a game that is superficially complex needs to be dumbed down even more to be acceptable. I would be in agreement with those who said, "That game should be made to help us think more about things," than those who are basically saying, "This storyline hurts my brain pan."



I like Kingdom Hearts I, II and CoM.  I just couldn't get into Fractions.  Maybe it was the idea of Roxas as the main character, I don't know.  I just didn't feel it was well written.  

I love the Kingdom Hearts series because, in a lot of ways, it feels like I get to revisit childhood memories with a Final Fantasy flare.   I mean when I was watching Peter Pan growing up I wanted to fly, and in KH you can do just that.  

The ability to see those old stories told in a different way is a really nice way to present a game and probably why it appeals to so many people.  I really did want to get into Fractions but I just couldn't for whatever reason.   

Bah, I feel glum now. ._.


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## MBlueWolf (Oct 12, 2009)

Ridge said:


> I like Kingdom Hearts I, II and CoM.  I just couldn't get into Fractions.  Maybe it was the idea of Roxas as the main character, I don't know.  I just didn't feel it was well written.
> 
> I love the Kingdom Hearts series because, in a lot of ways, it feels like I get to revisit childhood memories with a Final Fantasy flare.   I mean when I was watching Peter Pan growing up I wanted to fly, and in KH you can do just that.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Much better reasons to not like the game. Would this have been hard for others to just say than "I don't like to think," or "You suck for liking/not liking this game"?


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 12, 2009)

MBlueWolf said:


> I am not saying Kingdom Hearts is truly deep and philosophical. I just laugh that it is not simple enough for people. Basically, a game that is superficially complex needs to be dumbed down even more to be acceptable. I would be in agreement with those who said, "That game should be made to help us think more about things," than those who are basically saying, "This storyline hurts my brain pan."



You know a lot of people don't like KH simply because they don't like the characters, but it goes deeper than that. These are characters we grew up with in a different setting. Disney Characters in the disney movies, the hero's are the hero's and they put down the antagonists.

But when you take a look at KH, especially the first one, roles are reversed. The story is bastardized. The hero's become helpless (nearly) secondary characters, while this one guy with a giant key and a few Disney characters run around, taking the place of hero. It's something I know I personally cannot enjoy, seeing that part of my childhood trampled over.

Then you get to the other issue, the FF characters being thrown in for nothing more than pure fan service. For those of us who played through the games, some of don't like seeing the already badly abused characters drug back up so pathetic fan people can squee again, while everything that makes the characters is just thrown out the window. If they had any merits in the games they came from, they lose it once they hit KH. It also ignores all canon just to drag them back up again.

Then you get to the fact that these entire way all the human-esque characters look, is heavily japan-anime. It's weeabu style.

Some of still understand why the influence of Anime has ruined RPG's. I'm not going to get into that. This game for some people represents everything that is wrong with gaming, and many of it's fans represnt what is wrong with fan-people's.

It's selfless destruction of characters. When you even get to the Organization that are perhaps the only other "original characters" other than Ansem, Sora, and Rikku, and that girl....even they reek heavily of being cookie cutter rip offs from FF anagonists sharing the same characteristics of many of the main ones straight from older games.

YOu don't have to go into the plot to figure out why some people have a problem with the Franchise. I personally hate it. I dispise it. I won't touch it with a ten foot pole. Being around people who think "It's the best game ever" makes me want to kill babies.

Kingdom Hearts may have an average story line that is not that bad. It's not really original though with it's use of characters. Half of what stocks it, arguably more than half is nothing more than things that were borrowed straight from other games. It's hard to take it, seeing all these people running around giving mass fan-service to what really is an average game at best, with average plot, and mediocre characterization, and below par originality for characters. The idea, of the game, was a nice concept. I think I would enjoy it better if they went and did everything original. Leaving all the Disney and FF characters out if. Make entirely new worlds, entirely new stories....and then maybe then I'd have had more respect even if it does cater to a style that caters to animu-gamers.


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## Sinjo (Oct 12, 2009)

KH is the twilight of video games.


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## Ridge (Oct 12, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> You know a lot of people don't like KH simply because they don't like the characters, but it goes deeper than that. These are characters we grew up with in a different setting. Disney Characters in the disney movies, the hero's are the hero's and they put down the antagonists.
> 
> But when you take a look at KH, especially the first one, roles are reversed. The story is bastardized. The hero's become helpless (nearly) secondary characters, while this one guy with a giant key and a few Disney characters run around, taking the place of hero. It's something I know I personally cannot enjoy, seeing that part of my childhood trampled over.
> 
> ...




What if you looked at the game in terms of a giant fanservice game?  In that context I think it fairs well. 

I don't consider KH one of THE BEST games ever made, but I find it fun.  Really, fun is subjective to the individual and stating your like or dislike of something is equally okay.

It's when you judge people on their perceptions, likes and dislikes that problems occur.  It's okay to disagree but you should respect the people that do, or do not, like the game.


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 12, 2009)

Ridge said:


> What if you looked at the game in terms of a giant fanservice game?  In that context I think it fairs well.
> 
> I don't consider KH one of THE BEST games ever made, but I find it fun.  Really, fun is subjective to the individual and stating your like or dislike of something is equally okay.
> 
> It's when you judge people on their perceptions, likes and dislikes that problems occur.  It's okay to disagree but you should respect the people that do, or do not, like the game.



It is one giant fan-service, to furfags, and weaboos, pardon the language. But if people like it, I'm cool with it. It's all cool when people find something fun but "FUN" does not always equal best game ever. To even start calling something "best ever" requires, you know, testing out the waters and playing a good variety of games? Even then it's pretentious to try to call a game perfect and giving it that top title. No game is perfect. But there are games out that that exceel beyond all expectations. That's my main beef with the animu gamer crowd, or KH fans in general. The franchise caters to...you know what, it might not be nice to judge people based on what they like, but come on. There are just certain things that if you like it and you act a certain way you are begging to trolled and or judged. Or sacrificed and thrown in volcano.


KH is not that great. It might be a fun game for some, but it's not "The best game ever". It's not the god of RPG's. It's a spec on the Game God's toe compared to many other fantastic works out there. With that said I'm done.



Sinjo said:


> KH is the twilight of video games.



I couldn't put it better.


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## Ozriel (Oct 12, 2009)

ITT: Fan RAEG


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## Ridge (Oct 12, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> It is one giant fan-service, to furfags, and weaboos, pardon the language. But if people like it, I'm cool with it. It's all cool when people find something fun but "FUN" does not always equal best game ever. To even start calling something "best ever" requires, you know, testing out the waters and playing a good variety of games? Even then it's pretentious to try to call a game perfect and giving it that top title. No game is perfect. But there are games out that that exceel beyond all expectations. That's my main beef with the animu gamer crowd, or KH fans in general. The franchise caters to...you know what, it might not be nice to judge people based on what they like, but come on. There are just certain things that if you like it and you act a certain way you are begging to trolled and or judged. Or sacrificed and thrown in volcano.
> 
> 
> KH is not that great. It might be a fun game for some, but it's not "The best game ever". It's not the god of RPG's. It's a spec on the Game God's toe compared to many other fantastic works out there. With that said I'm done.
> ...




The best game ever is just as subjective to the person as is disliking it.  To some it may really speak to them the way a book or a movie does to others.  It's the same argument a lot of people have on those mediums.  I'm not claiming KH is 'the best game ever' but it's fun and in the end isn't that what a game is all about?  

I do agree that the way some people act are asking for a shot of humility and reality but one shouldn't always be so eager to dish it out at the same time.  People like certain things and no one is going to ever agree 100% of the time, that's simple human nature.  I just... I suppose, just lest ye be judged comes into mind here.  I TRY to live by that, even though I'm about as religious as the rocks outside my door, but it is a good saying none the less.  

Let some people have their thoughts and their opinions.  Your rationality for why Kingdom Hearts isn't a great game was actually well thought out and delivered but even a sound argument isn't going to sway everybody and people should accept that and move on.  

Disagreeing is a part of life, discord builds upon itself to create new ideas and opinions.  One can attack the medium all they want but the person should be left alone.  When you draw in individual character traits and flaws then the grounds for an argument begin to lose structure because you're pulling in variables of human emotions and society.  

Just my two cents.  =) 

P.S.  This wasn't directed at anyone in particular, just my views on arguments in general.


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 12, 2009)

Ridge said:


> The best game ever is just as subjective to the person as is disliking it.  To some it may really speak to them the way a book or a movie does to others.  It's the same argument a lot of people have on those mediums.  I'm not claiming KH is 'the best game ever' but it's fun and in the end isn't that what a game is all about?
> 
> I do agree that the way some people act are asking for a shot of humility and reality but one shouldn't always be so eager to dish it out at the same time.  People like certain things and no one is going to ever agree 100% of the time, that's simple human nature.  I just... I suppose, just lest ye be judged comes into mind here.  I TRY to live by that, even though I'm about as religious as the rocks outside my door, but it is a good saying none the less.
> 
> ...



The best game does not exist. There are only so many criteria that you can create, and then it delves into personal preferences. Personally I know that even if a game caters to a different genre of games opposite of what I like, that doesn't make it a bad game.

Games are stories. They are interactive movies. Any good story told in a movie-esque setting, needs to have certain things. Such as characterization, plot, a good music score to accompany the different moments. Good voice actors go a long way (a game is like an animated movie). You go further than that and you deal with an attempt at originality, it does't have to be wholly original but you can try at least.

That's how I judge games. Do they carry the story well as per RPG's go. Is the battle system engaging. Do you have good characterization?

Also by all means let them have their opinions, so long as you leave the field open for opposition. A discussion should not be one sided based on just who likes the game. If you make it a point to bring it up, well, be prepared for opposition. It's just how these things go. 

Also thanks for recognizing that I was bringing up legitimate points. It's nice to see someone who doesn't go all "OMG SHE DOESN"T LIKE KH, SHE's A WITCH BURN HER!" mode on me.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 12, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> Also thanks for recognizing that I was bringing up legitimate points. It's nice to see someone who doesn't go all "OMG SHE DOESN"T LIKE KH, SHE's A WITCH BURN HER!" mode on me.



It's even nicer when they don't go "OMG YOU LIKE THIS, WITCH!!! BURN!!!!" 



Sinjo said:


> Call of Duty 5 is the twilight of video games.



Fixed by my personal opinion.


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## Ridge (Oct 13, 2009)

Trpdwarf said:


> The best game does not exist. There are only so many criteria that you can create, and then it delves into personal preferences. Personally I know that even if a game caters to a different genre of games opposite of what I like, that doesn't make it a bad game.
> 
> Games are stories. They are interactive movies. Any good story told in a movie-esque setting, needs to have certain things. Such as characterization, plot, a good music score to accompany the different moments. Good voice actors go a long way (a game is like an animated movie). You go further than that and you deal with an attempt at originality, it does't have to be wholly original but you can try at least.
> 
> ...



Ha! Hardly!  I wouldn't ever judge someone harshly if they do or do not like a game the same as me. =)  I think you know how to debate really well and you made me sit back and think about elements of the series that I may be ignoring.

All in all, the criteria for the best game ever is going to be relative to the person, and if Kingdom Hearts doesn't meet your standards that's fine with me.  In the same sense someone liking the game shouldn't matter either, nor should your perceptions on that person change based on that.  It's easy to make assumptions based on how someone chooses to unwind.  An example would be someone whose very well educated but goes to see a movie about morons burning themselves.  Should the person be judged based on their education, or their type of preferred media?  It's that fine line that some people can't really see past.  

I find debating with you rather enjoyable to be honest. XD


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## WolfoxOkamichan (Oct 13, 2009)

MBlueWolf said:


> I am not saying Kingdom Hearts is truly deep and philosophical. I just laugh that it is not simple enough for people. Basically, a game that is superficially complex needs to be dumbed down even more to be acceptable. I would be in agreement with those who said, "That game should be made to help us think more about things," than those who are basically saying, "This storyline hurts my brain pan."



There's a difference a well-developed story based from something that seems simple (The World Ends With You) to something that is needlessly complex that it seems like they're making things up as they go along (KH post 1).


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## Sinjo (Oct 13, 2009)

Digitalpotato said:


> It's even nicer when they don't go "OMG YOU LIKE THIS, WITCH!!! BURN!!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> Fixed by my personal opinion.


'cause COD5 has a ton of fan girls that go squee when they see cloud, sora or any other girl boy. Not to mention they're rapid and will rip your face off if you say otherwise about the game.


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## MBlueWolf (Oct 14, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> 'cause COD5 has a ton of fan girls that go squee when they see cloud, sora or any other girl boy. Not to mention they're rapid and will rip your face off if you say otherwise about the game.



You are right about that. COD5 just has a lot of fanboys that blow wads over shooting people in the face. Equivalent of rednecks with rifles that get all patriotic, or high school jocks, and saying such gets the same amount of attention. 

Argument nulled! Back to the smarter posts of not going "You like or don't like this. Burn!" and making well-thought out opinions.


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## Kokusho (Oct 14, 2009)

Waaaaay too much tl;dr. Anyway, I think this game is fun. I'm only on day 94 I think.


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 14, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> 'cause COD5 has a ton of fan girls that go squee when they see cloud, sora or any other girl boy. Not to mention they're rapid and will rip your face off if you say otherwise about the game.



Call of Duty 5 INSTEAD has people who go squee whenever they blow shit up despite that they did it in Call of Duty 4, 3, 2, and 1. And not to mention, they're very ra*b*id and will rip your face off if you don't think their game is the best of all time. 

Ahem.


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## Xaerun (Oct 14, 2009)

Jus' some random thought; it's funny that Xemnas glides over the ground, guards with energy, attacks with energy, then dodge-rolls all over the filthy ground.

I can't help but feel he should teleport short distances instead (the effect would be the same). Oh, and Marluxia's Limit is a fucking joke ("HEY GUISE COME BACK AND STAND STILL SO I CAN CHARGE MY ATTACK AND HIT YOOOOOOOU"). Come to think of it, so is Sora's, Mickey's...


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## Sinjo (Oct 14, 2009)

MBlueWolf said:


> You are right about that. COD5 just has a lot of fanboys that blow wads over shooting people in the face. Equivalent of rednecks with rifles that get all patriotic, or high school jocks, and saying such gets the same amount of attention.
> 
> Argument nulled! Back to the smarter posts of not going "You like or don't like this. Burn!" and making well-thought out opinions.


That's just all of xbox live. They fanboy over every shooter.It's like a man's man and action movies.  KH is the twilight of games.


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## Ratte (Oct 15, 2009)

Xaerun said:


> Jus' some random thought; it's funny that Xemnas glides over the ground, guards with energy, attacks with energy, then dodge-rolls all over the filthy ground.
> 
> I can't help but feel he should teleport short distances instead (the effect would be the same). Oh, and Marluxia's Limit is a fucking joke ("HEY GUISE COME BACK AND STAND STILL SO I CAN CHARGE MY ATTACK AND HIT YOOOOOOOU"). Come to think of it, so is Sora's, Mickey's...



Limits are dumb

why do you use them :V


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## Kokusho (Oct 15, 2009)

Yeah, a lot of the character's Limit Breaks are stupid. However, with side characters, it depends with what weapon they have equipped. Saix will do a bunch of random ground slashes when he has one of those Strength boosting gears equipped (can't think of it's name right now), but if you give him a Lift Gear, his limit is different (at least I think. I could have sworn it was different, but I may just be imagining things).


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## Digitalpotato (Oct 15, 2009)

You usually don't even _need_ most limits later on when you get the better gear.


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