# Autism in The Fandom



## Parabellum3 (Sep 1, 2019)

Yesterday I vented something regarding to autism, and today I had a thought pop up in my head and I now wonder approximately how many members in the fandom are autistic? 

I certainly know that there are quite a number of them, but the question is how much? And what is the ratio between those with or without autism? One thing that I hope is that most people aren't autistic in this community, and this coming from someone who suffers from it as well. 

What do you think?


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## Wabbajax (Sep 1, 2019)

I think in general the furry community tends to draw individuals that feel they are misfits and don't belong anywhere in particular. That's not to say there is anything wrong with them, just that I have noticed a lot of furries tend to feel like outcasts for various reasons.

On that note, I am sure that being furry does not appeal to every single autistic individual, so it's not something that is easy to say or even guess. I'm sure there are also autistic individuals here that choose not to identify themselves for various reasons.

I think overall you'd have better luck if you created some sort of poll with different options such as (Neurotypical v. Neurodivergent) or something similar.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 1, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I think in general the furry community tends to draw individuals that feel they are misfits and don't belong anywhere in particular. That's not to say there is anything wrong with them, just that I have noticed a lot of furries tend to feel like outcasts for various reasons.
> 
> On that note, I am sure that being furry does not appeal to every single individual with autism, so it's not something that is easy to say or even guess. I'm sure there are also individuals here that are autistic that choose not to identify themselves for various reasons.
> 
> I think overall you'd have better luck if you created some sort of poll with different options such as (Neurotypical v. Neurodivergent) or something similar.


That is true. The main thing I'm worried about though is that since this fandom is already under enough scrutiny as it is, it will paint a worse picture on us since we are stereo typically compared to furries plus assume that most autistics are them. So I'm hoping that won't be the case.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Sep 1, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yesterday I vented something regarding to autism, and today I had a thought pop up in my head and I now wonder approximately how many members in the fandom are autistic?
> 
> I certainly know that there are quite a number of them, but the question is how much? And what is the ratio between those with or without autism? One thing that I hope is that most people aren't autistic in this community, and this coming from someone who suffers from it as well.
> 
> What do you think?


I'm autistic myself, but I don't know the ratio. But, quite a few of my friends are fellow Aspies.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 1, 2019)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> I'm autistic myself, but I don't know the ratio. But, quite a few of my friends are fellow Aspies.


I see. That's a good way to find out actually. To everyone that I have spoken with, how many of their friends who are in the fandom are autistic?


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## FluffyShutterbug (Sep 1, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> I see. That's a good way to find out actually. To everyone that I have spoken with, how many of their friends who are in the fandom are autistic?


Of the top of my head, I only remember one. An artist by the name of Zennikens. But, my boyfriend, BeatleNumber9 (Yes, that's his username. ), told me that he thinks there's a strong chance that he's an Aspie. I'm sure that there were others, but I don't remember for sure.


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## Infrarednexus (Sep 1, 2019)

I recently got diagnosed with it


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## Wabbajax (Sep 1, 2019)

I'm ADHD and suspect I _might_ be on the autism spectrum. But if I am it is slight enough that it's hard to diagnose/prove and I haven't felt it important enough to go to great lengths to figure it out yet.

Certain clues such as having clothes I dislike because of the texture of the fabric, frequently misunderstanding verbal directions by taking them too literally, empathizing with inanimate objects, feeling easily overwhelmed in noisy busy environments, emotionally locking up during arguments and a general aversion to confrontation, and goofy wordplay where I switch words around just for the fun of it. Oh, and not always being savvy about where specific social boundaries are regarding sensitive topics.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Sep 1, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I'm ADHD and suspect I _might_ be on the autism spectrum. But if I am it is slight enough that it's hard to diagnose/prove and I haven't felt it important enough to go to great lengths to figure it out yet.
> 
> Certain clues such as having clothes I dislike because of the texture of the fabric, frequently misunderstanding verbal directions by taking them too literally, empathizing with inanimate objects, feeling easily overwhelmed in noisy busy environments, emotionally locking up during arguments and a general aversion to confrontation, and goofy wordplay where I switch words around just for the fun of it. Oh, and not always being savvy about where specific social boundaries are regarding sensitive topics.


Being an Aspie myself, I can say, it's almost certain that you have Aspergers' too.


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## blue sky love (Sep 1, 2019)

I am probably going to be tested. I am under suspicion.


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## Glossolalia (Sep 1, 2019)

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a higher percentage of autistic people in the furry fandom than the general population. I'd be more curious to see a comparison between the percentages in the furry fandom and a variety of different fandoms/hobbies/internet communities. The people I know who are on the spectrum are very active in their hobbies/special interests, and the furry fandom is so multifaceted that it's probably a popular one to get lost in.


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## Tazmo (Sep 1, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> Certain clues such as having clothes I dislike because of the texture of the fabric, frequently misunderstanding verbal directions by taking them too literally, empathizing with inanimate objects, feeling easily overwhelmed in noisy busy environments, emotionally locking up during arguments and a general aversion to confrontation, and goofy wordplay where I switch words around just for the fun of it. Oh, and not always being savvy about where specific social boundaries are regarding sensitive topics.



How about also getting totally absorbed into special interests.......  *sighs*


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## Godzilla (Sep 1, 2019)

Tazmo said:


> How about also getting totally absorbed into special interests.......  *sighs*



Hyper Fixation can really cause a mess, but also so much fun.


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## Guifrog (Sep 1, 2019)

I actually find it relieving. Gives me the feeling that this community is quite diverse and I felt so much welcome in my first furcon

In the fandom, I often speak to Universe. Also got an autistic friend outside the fandom


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## Sushimitsu (Sep 1, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I'm ADHD and suspect I _might_ be on the autism spectrum. But if I am it is slight enough that it's hard to diagnose/prove and I haven't felt it important enough to go to great lengths to figure it out yet.
> 
> Certain clues such as having clothes I dislike because of the texture of the fabric, frequently misunderstanding verbal directions by taking them too literally, empathizing with inanimate objects, feeling easily overwhelmed in noisy busy environments, emotionally locking up during arguments and a general aversion to confrontation, and goofy wordplay where I switch words around just for the fun of it. Oh, and not always being savvy about where specific social boundaries are regarding sensitive topics.



It sounds rough what people have to deal with sometimes, but coming from your post, I can relate to you in so many ways it's crazy.

The fabric ordeal, feeling overwhelmed in busy environments, locking off and trying to avert away from confrontation, the pressure can be so infuriating.

If you feel like you can cope with the issues then maybe you can let it slide but if you ever feel too overwhelmee you can always look for help and i encourage it! Same to everyone else In the thread! All the best for the future!


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## ZeroVoidTime (Sep 2, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I'm ADHD and suspect I _might_ be on the autism spectrum. But if I am it is slight enough that it's hard to diagnose/prove and I haven't felt it important enough to go to great lengths to figure it out yet.
> 
> Certain clues such as having clothes I dislike because of the texture of the fabric, frequently misunderstanding verbal directions by taking them too literally, empathizing with inanimate objects, feeling easily overwhelmed in noisy busy environments, emotionally locking up during arguments and a general aversion to confrontation, and goofy wordplay where I switch words around just for the fun of it. Oh, and not always being savvy about where specific social boundaries are regarding sensitive topics.





Infrarednexus said:


> I recently got diagnosed with it


I was actually not diagnose on being on the Autism spectrum until I was a teenager. It had to do with my immense sense and understanding of empathy when I was growing up so doctors were perplex by it.


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## Infrarednexus (Sep 2, 2019)

I found this inspiring and motivating,

20 Famous People With Autism | Betterhelp

Some famous people who are diagnosed or suspected to be on the Autistic spectrum...

Daryl Hannah (Kill Bill vol.1)
Dan Harmon (Creator of Rick and Morty)
Dan Aykroyd (Man behind the Ghostbusters franchise)
Courtney Love 
Tim Burton (Nightmare before Christmas)
Susan Boyle
Stanley Kubrick (The Shining movie)
Jerry Seinfeld
Thomas Jefferson 
Abraham Lincoln (The man who ended slavery in America. That's pretty awesome)
Mozart (Famous classical musician)
Andy Warhol
Emily Dickinson
Charles Darwin (Theory of Evolution)
Albert Einstein
Charles Richter (Helped us better study earthquakes)
Michelangelo (The artist, not the mutant turtle)
James Durbin
Bill Gates


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## Gushousekai195 (Sep 2, 2019)

I’m an aspie and it’s a mixed blessing to me.  My mentality is high but my psyche is low.

It’s brought me great creativity but it also led me to expect the worst, even if it’s hardly possible.


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## Gushousekai195 (Sep 2, 2019)

Tazmo said:


> How about also getting totally absorbed into special interests.......  *sighs*



You have no idea what obscure things I have been so enamored with.  =3


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Sep 2, 2019)

Autistic basically my whole life (they used to call what I have Asperger syndrome, but that's been lumped into the autism spectrum for 6-7 years now).

I can tell you with complete confidence that it's both a blessing and a curse, and won't let anyone say it's just one or the other.  Sure, it gives me a lot in regards to detail (and apparently creativity, even if to me it feels like I'm just jumbling old things into new patterns)...

Yet due to how many times I've been easily misunderstood in the past... I've wound up more than a little paranoid and that's actually hindering my ability to interact with many communities at the most basic level.  Including the furry fandom.


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## Miles Marsalis (Sep 2, 2019)

I know a few people with autism I've come to know doing business in the fandom and I get along with most of them. They can act a little differently sometimes, but I genuinely enjoy talking with them when I get the chance to. From what I've seen of the fandom, most people tend treat them like anyone else.


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## ConorHyena (Sep 2, 2019)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Being an Aspie myself, I can say, it's almost certain that you have Aspergers' too.



I would be very careful at diagnosing autism/asperger from an armchair without any sort of psychological evalutation. I would also be careful about self-diagnosing oneself according to something one has read somewhere. Most of the time it's totally off.

I have been armchair-diagnosed with aspergers before - upon closer examination, it wasn't the case. 
And I could self-diagnose almost anyhting from OCD to Borderline disorder when looking at my life from a certain point of view.

I have met a few people with autism on the forums, never had a problem with them, why should I? They're normal people, they just work a bit differently. I find the maipulative and drama-prone teenager type much more of an issue.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Sep 2, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> I would be very careful at diagnosing autism/asperger from an armchair without any sort of psychological evalutation. I would also be careful about self-diagnosing oneself according to something one has read somewhere. Most of the time it's totally off.
> 
> I have been armchair-diagnosed with aspergers before - upon closer examination, it wasn't the case.
> And I could self-diagnose almost anyhting from OCD to Borderline disorder when looking at my life from a certain point of view.
> ...


Oh...
He just sounded so similar to me....


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## ConorHyena (Sep 2, 2019)

​


FluffyShutterbug said:


> Oh...
> He just sounded so similar to me....



Some Aspies sound similar to how I work as well. But you went on a self-characterisation on an internet forum (in writing), and that's not enough to make something conclusive.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Sep 2, 2019)

ConorHyena said:


> ​
> 
> Some Aspies sound similar to how I work as well. But you went on a self-characterisation on an internet forum (in writing), and that's not enough to make something conclusive.


I guess...


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## Filter (Sep 2, 2019)

It looks like the percentage may be higher than in the general population, but still quite low:
sites.google.com: Anthrocon 2013 - Anthropomorphic Research Project
_
"Perhaps most interesting, however, was the prevalence of Autism Spectrum Disorder (in particular, Asperger’s Syndrome, or high-functioning autism) within the furry fandom. *Approximately 4% of participants indicated that they had been diagnosed of Asperger’s Syndrome. *Given that estimates of the prevalence rate of Asperger’s Syndrome in the general population differ immensely, it is difficult to know exactly how much more prevalent this condition is in the furry fandom than the general population. However, the most conservative estimates suggest that, based on the obtained data, *furries are at least 2.25 times more likely to have Asperger’s Syndrome* than the general population, even after controlling for different sex ratios in the furry fandom. Additionally, there was a small, but significant positive relationship between the extent to which participants identified as being furry and having Asperger’s Syndrome (B = .083, p = .023)."_


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

Filter said:


> It looks like the percentage may be higher than in the general population, but still quite low:
> sites.google.com: Anthrocon 2013 - Anthropomorphic Research Project
> _
> "Perhaps most interesting, however, was the prevalence of Autism Spectrum Disorder (in particular, Asperger’s Syndrome, or high-functioning autism) within the furry fandom. *Approximately 4% of participants indicated that they had been diagnosed of Asperger’s Syndrome. *Given that estimates of the prevalence rate of Asperger’s Syndrome in the general population differ immensely, it is difficult to know exactly how much more prevalent this condition is in the furry fandom than the general population. However, the most conservative estimates suggest that, based on the obtained data, *furries are at least 2.25 times more likely to have Asperger’s Syndrome* than the general population, even after controlling for different sex ratios in the furry fandom. Additionally, there was a small, but significant positive relationship between the extent to which participants identified as being furry and having Asperger’s Syndrome (B = .083, p = .023)."_


So far it seems very accurate, a lot of people have autism here.

And that…gives me a really bad feeling.


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## FluffyShutterbug (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> So far it seems very accurate, a lot of people have autism here.
> 
> And that…gives me a really bad feeling.


Why does it give you a bad feeling?


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## _Ivory_ (Sep 2, 2019)

i dont have autism myself but staying in the fandom for 4 years now i couldnt not think about how much autistic peopel is around, and not only them, i often met people with other disorders/disturbs like PTSD, OCD, ADHD, bipolar disturb, depression, anxiety and such. Its so common that i hardly find someone that has not at least one of those problems. please don't take this as some sort of offence, i have a couple of them too. I'm just thinking how curious it is taht the fandom is so rich of people that have this particular problems.


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> So far it seems very accurate, a lot of people have autism here.
> 
> And that…gives me a really bad feeling.


Discounting for the moment that the sampling method for the survey isn't ideal, let's assume the 4% figure is accurate. That's four in a hundred. While that makes a significant absolute number, given the thousands of furries out there, it's still a piddly portion. More than in the general population, maybe, but not enough to conclude it'll have any major effect on the perception of furry fandom at large. I wouldn't worry about that.

Honestly, most people give no shits about furries. The people who bitch about it are just a vocal minority, and primarily exist (as in, that's where they voice their opinions, obviously they're not disembodied avatars of hate) on the Internet.


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## LeFay (Sep 2, 2019)

I have met a few people with autism and even one with CP. I think just in my main discord we have 3 out of our maybe 15 active members that fall on the autism spectrum. There is nothing wrong with that but it's like what was said earlier, you have a lot of people that feel outcasted that usually gravitate towards this community. A lot of people I've met with autism often have social problems which is alivated through online interaction. Especially if you can personify (or I guess fursonify) yourself in a way where you don't have to interact face to face.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Why does it give you a bad feeling?


As I’ve said before this fandom has a lot of harassment as it is, and it is likely that autistics will be harassed EVEN MORE than those with out the disease. In fact, this may even reflect to those who aren’t in the fandom, and now they’ll assume that we are furries and be compared to all of the bad elements there are in the fandom.


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

I have autism but to be fair you always have people with autism in every fandom or community out there. I mean a good amount of people have it even if they don't know they have it.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> Discounting for the moment that the sampling method for the survey isn't ideal, let's assume the 4% figure is accurate. That's four in a hundred. While that makes a significant absolute number, given the thousands of furries out there, it's still a piddly portion. More than in the general population, maybe, but not enough to conclude it'll have any major effect on the perception of furry fandom at large. I wouldn't worry about that.
> 
> Honestly, most people give no shits about furries. The people who bitch about it are just a vocal minority, and primarily exist (as in, that's where they voice their opinions, obviously they're not disembodied avatars of hate) on the Internet.



It’s not only about those who are in the fandom, but it may apply to those who aren’t furries. That 4% increase may give people reasons to apply the negatives of the fandom to everybody that has autism.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

LeFay said:


> I have met a few people with autism and even one with CP. I think just in my main discord we have 3 out of our maybe 15 active members that fall on the autism spectrum. There is nothing wrong with that but it's like what was said earlier, you have a lot of people that feel outcasted that usually gravitate towards this community. A lot of people I've met with autism often have social problems which is alivated through online interaction. Especially if you can personify (or I guess fursonify) yourself in a way where you don't have to interact face to face.


That is true, but you can’t be something else forever. That’s where the problem arises.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> I have autism but to be fair you always have people with autism in every fandom or community out there. I mean a good amount of people have it even if they don't know they have it.


Yeah, sometimes it’s best not to know.


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yeah, sometimes it’s best not to know.



Tbh. I didn't even know I was autistic till my final year of high school. No one knew what my learning disability really was for the longest time.  They had me marked down as so many different things over the years it wasn't even funny.

So when I figured out I was autistic and I kid you not this actually happened. The teacher beside me explaining the situation went "That explains, why you acted like that during that social situation."

Kinda making me feel like the biggest idiot in the world. Because she kept on making remarks like that all throughout saying it explains, this and that.


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## LeFay (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> That is true, but you can’t be something else forever. That’s where the problem arises.



Well you're right, it's a bit of a double edged sword. But the biggest bonus of online interaction is you don't have to abide by nuance or inflection or have to be forced to interact via face to face. Everything you say can be taken at face value. So what happens is people meet the mental version of you prior to meeting the physical. Often who we are online isn't who we are offline but that online self (in my opinion) is the truer self mainly because you don't have to abide by social pressures. So when you have people with social problems in general a lot of that interaction becomes easier.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> Tbh. I didn't even know I was autistic till my final year of high school. No one knew what my learning disability really was for the longest time.  They had me marked down as so many different things over the years it wasn't even funny.
> 
> So when I figured out I was autistic and I kid you not this actually happened. The teacher beside me explaining the situation went "That explains, why you acted like that during that social situation."
> 
> Kinda making me feel like the biggest idiot in the world. Because she kept on making remarks like that all throughout saying it explains, this and that.


That may unfortunately be true and at least people can use that as an excuse to practically everything wrong they do. I do it.


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> That may unfortunately be true and at least people can use that as an excuse to practically everything wrong they do. I do it.



I refuse to personally. I'm not someone who will blame his flaws or personality characteristics on a disability. One reason why I honestly hate how people use this as a get out of jail free card in so many cases.


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## Kiaara (Sep 2, 2019)

I have autism spectrum


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

LeFay said:


> Well you're right, it's a bit of a double edged sword. But the biggest bonus of online interaction is you don't have to abide by nuance or inflection or have to be forced to interact via face to face. Everything you say can be taken at face value. So what happens is people meet the mental version of you prior to meeting the physical. Often who we are online isn't who we are offline but that online self (in my opinion) is the truer self mainly because you don't have to abide by social pressures. So when you have people with social problems in general a lot of that interaction becomes easier.


Yes that’s also true. You have time to think what you say. But in some cases like mine, that’s not enough to hide all of my weaknesses, and as a result I’ve lost friends because of it.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> I refuse to personally. I'm not someone who will blame his flaws or personality characteristics on a disability. One reason why I honestly hate how people use this as a get out of jail free card in so many cases.


Don’t you think it’s true though? Or at least partially true?


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Don’t you think it’s true though? Or at least partially true?



No I don't. I believe one's short comings is entirely on them. Doesn't mean they can't work to improve upon said shortcomings or work on something.
You're gonna have a shitty time in life if all you do is place blame.

I would rather have someone call me an idiot. Than me place blame on my own disability.

I have my little moments where I am obsessed with a particular topic. But that's why I force myself to do new things everyday or focus on other topics to make myself better well rounded.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> No I don't. I believe one's short comings is entirely on them. Doesn't mean they can't work to improve upon said shortcomings or work on something.
> You're gonna have a shitty time in life if all you do is place blame.
> 
> I would rather have someone call me an idiot. Than me place blame on my own disability.
> ...


Wouldn’t you think that lying to yourself is worse? I think it’s better that you rather be honest and try to contain the spectrum by lowering the symptoms at least. I don’t believe that creating excuses for something that is completely different will help you in any way. But that’s just what I think.


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Wouldn’t you think that lying to yourself is worse? I think it’s better that you rather be honest and try to contain the spectrum by lowering the symptoms at least. I don’t believe that creating excuses for something that is completely different will help you in any way. But that’s just what I think.



It isn't lying to one's self. It's taking ahold of your situation and not making yourself a victim.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> It isn't lying to one's self. It's taking ahold of your situation and not making yourself a victim.


You’ll be a victim either way so why not just be honest? Maybe there’s a chance that the other party will pity you instead of being hostile.


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> It’s not only about those who are in the fandom, but it may apply to those who aren’t furries. That 4% increase may give people reasons to apply the negatives of the fandom to everybody that has autism.


I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. Both because, as I said, the people who even care about furries aren't actually very many, they just manage to be pretty vocal in certain circles. And then because it's not really plausible for four out of a hundred (or 1 out of 25) furries to be the only furries someone encounters. If people encounter more furries without autism than not, why would they conclude that anything negative they apply to furries, would also apply to autistic people overall? 

I understand that you're feeling worried about this, but it really seems like you're catastrophizing. Furry fandom isn't going to massively shift people's opinion of autism, and autism isn't going to massively shift people's opinions of furries. There being stigma against autism in the population in general in the first place is a more realistic cause for concern.


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> You’ll be a victim either way so why not just be honest? Maybe there’s a chance that the other party will pity you instead of being hostile.



Who wants pity? Honestly I think a person who desires pity. Has no self respect.

That's like saying to a person who has a reading disability aka dyslexia, "You can't read. I guess you're too dumb to even get it to begin with."

Fuck that shit. I was the first person in my family to finish school. All the other members of my family who had no disability never finished school.

I was raped when I was 19 by someone who was close to me and that left me with PTSD and I always tell everyone. I don't want your fucking pity I am a survivor.

I rent from a decent apartment with a roommate. I don't live with my parents. I have seizures that keep me from having a full time job. But I refuse to give in.
Why? Because I don't desire that.

I work hard. Because I know what I am worth. I work hard because I wanna be something. Be someone. So fuck that mentality of wanting pity. Fuck that mentality of wanting to give in.

I may not have the greatest life. But I have something no one else can buy. Fucking respect for myself and from others around me. That's way better than pity and I'll work my ass off everyday to make sure my shortcomings don't beat me. I'll work even as I'm crying my eyes out. Because that is how it should be. When the world gives you a shortcoming, wall that is higher than others people's problems in life. You climb over it and be stronger and make something of yourself.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. Both because, as I said, the people who even care about furries aren't actually very many, they just manage to be pretty vocal in certain circles. And then because it's not really plausible for four out of a hundred (or 1 out of 25) furries to be the only furries someone encounters. If people encounter more furries without autism than not, why would they conclude that anything negative they apply to furries, would also apply to autistic people overall?
> 
> I understand that you're feeling worried about this, but it really seems like you're catastrophizing. Furry fandom isn't going to massively shift people's opinion of autism, and autism isn't going to massively shift people's opinions of furries. There being stigma against autism in the population in general in the first place is a more realistic cause for concern.


It does make sense. While it might not be plausible, it’s certainly POSSIBLE. Anything is. And we both know well that this society isn’t a nice place. Anyone who knows one’s weaknesses will you use that to their advantage. But forgive me since I get philosophical most of the times, but that’s what happens. So it is a thing that you can be worried about, especially in my case. Even if it is unlikely.


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## Baalf (Sep 2, 2019)

FluffyShutterbug said:


> Why does it give you a bad feeling?



It might be because "autism" has become the next "retarded." People throw it around as an insult, and it has made me feel ashamed to be an aspie.


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## Wabbajax (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> You’ll be a victim either way so why not just be honest? Maybe there’s a chance that the other party will pity you instead of being hostile.





RafflesHolmes said:


> Who wants pity? Honestly I think a person who desires pity. Has no self respect.



I think what is important to remember here is that the Autism Spectrum is just that, a spectrum. What is easy for one person to overcome by sheer force of will may not be so easy for another simply by merit of the fact that the condition is so diverse.

While I do not believe that pitying oneself is healthy or productive, I cannot blame someone for doing so as I do not know the extent of their struggle. I think it would be good to remember this as we move forward. Every individual's experience is unique and equally valid as the way they perceive the world (whether "right" or "wrong") is ultimately their reality and shapes how they react to the world.


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## Existenceinanutshell (Sep 2, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I think what is important to remember here is that the Autism Spectrum is just that, a spectrum. What is easy for one person to overcome by sheer force of will may not be so easy for another simply by merit of the fact that the condition is so diverse.
> 
> While I do not believe that pitying oneself is healthy or productive, I cannot blame someone for doing so as I do not know the extent of their struggle. I think it would be good to remember this as we move forward. Every individual's experience is unique and equally valid as the way they perceive the world (whether "right" or "wrong") is ultimately their reality and shapes how they react to the world.




Anyone can overcome their struggles if they work hard enough. I believe that fact because I have seen it and experienced that fact. People will always have to work hard in life no matter what. Some people just have to work harder to reach said goals.

But because of that when they do reach their goals it's all the more sweeter.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> Who wants pity? Honestly I think a person who desires pity. Has no self respect.
> 
> That's like saying to a person who has a reading disability aka dyslexia, "You can't read. I guess you're too dumb to even get it to begin with."
> 
> ...


I do certainly admire your strength friend. A lot of people don’t have that. Especially people like me. You’re lucky that you have that. I think you will be successful through brute strength, that’s how you have to live life I guess. But all I see is the truth and reality in me and life itself. I can somewhat predict what our destiny will be. I’d say yours will be good, that’s for sure. Mine, I don’t know.

I want to circumvent it somehow though. Go around life’s rules. I wonder if eradicating my disease breaks the rule?


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I think what is important to remember here is that the Autism Spectrum is just that, a spectrum. What is easy for one person to overcome by sheer force of will may not be so easy for another simply by merit of the fact that the condition is so diverse.
> 
> While I do not believe that pitying oneself is healthy or productive, I cannot blame someone for doing so as I do not know the extent of their struggle. I think it would be good to remember this as we move forward. Every individual's experience is unique and equally valid as the way they perceive the world (whether "right" or "wrong") is ultimately their reality and shapes how they react to the world.


I definitely agree. It is a very variable malady. You’re either a complete brain dead sack of flesh and bone or you are an extremely intelligent being who sees things further than people, but suffer from that very thing. No wonder we are considered “special.”


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## Wabbajax (Sep 2, 2019)

RafflesHolmes said:


> Anyone can overcome their struggles if they work hard enough.





Parabellum3 said:


> I want to circumvent it somehow though. Go around life’s rules.



I think what is being missed or confused here is the idea of "doing differently" vs. "doing harder". Again, I might be on the spectrum, but I _have not_ been diagnosed. What I _do know_ is that I have ADHD, and it is pretty bad.

I have tried for years before I was diagnosed to simply "be better". I felt like a stupid and inadequate human being and I tried so hard to fix myself. But I had no idea what was wrong with me to begin with and thus no idea how to "fix" the problem.

What I have been told again and again through books and therapy is the idea that you can't simply "fix" the issues that arise from being Neurodivergent by trying harder. Our brains simply don't function the same way as the vast majority of society. The key for us is to find other means and methods that work for our brains, even if they might be slightly unconventional.

In the end that is the key. "Try Different" not just "Try Harder". Recognize and embrace the fact that you do not think the same way as a Neurotypical individual and learn to work within your own needs and limitations.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> I think what is being missed or confused here is the idea of "doing differently" vs. "doing harder". Again, I might be on the spectrum, but I _have not_ been diagnosed. What I _do know_ is that I have ADHD, and it is pretty bad.
> 
> I have tried for years before I was diagnosed to simply "be better". I felt like a stupid and inadequate human being and I tried so hard to fix myself. But I had no idea what was wrong with me to begin with and thus no idea how to "fix" the problem.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have ADHD too. I do try different options and tactics. Ranging from the therapies, medications, and just simply the social interactions with people. Question is, how many times can you try before all your options are exhausted?


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## Fallowfox (Sep 2, 2019)

Does the higher rate of autism in the furry fandom account for the skewed sex ratio between men and women?


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> Does the higher rate of autism in the furry fandom account for the skewed sex ratio between men and women?


Are you referring to an increased or decreased sex ratio?


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 2, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Are you referring to an increased or decreased sex ratio?


He's referring to the male-female ratio, generally accepted to be skewed in favor of males (even if I personally disagree with common perception of just _how_ skewed it is).


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 2, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> He's referring to the male-female ratio, generally accepted to be skewed in favor of males (even if I personally disagree with common perception of just _how_ skewed it is).


I see. Well technically males are more likely to have autism than females then really the favor is generally leaning towards the females, not the males.


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## MaelstromEyre (Sep 3, 2019)

It does seem to be prevalent.
The only time it really comes out as a negative is when people use it as an excuse for treating other people like crap.  
If someone calls you out for bad behavior, do your best to stop whatever it is you're doing.
In the last few years, I've encountered a few toxic members of the fandom who continuously cheated in RP, even after it was brought to their attention that their behavior was against the group's rules.  They would test the limits of what they could get away with, but whenever a mod corrected them, they went into the "I have autism don't yell at me."  So, they'd get another chance.  And another.  But then they started harassing and threatening people who didn't let them have their way.
We eventually had to ban them from the group.  Again, they brought up autism as if that was their "get away with everything" pass.
It's not.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 3, 2019)

MaelstromEyre said:


> It does seem to be prevalent.
> The only time it really comes out as a negative is when people use it as an excuse for treating other people like crap.
> If someone calls you out for bad behavior, do your best to stop whatever it is you're doing.
> In the last few years, I've encountered a few toxic members of the fandom who continuously cheated in RP, even after it was brought to their attention that their behavior was against the group's rules.  They would test the limits of what they could get away with, but whenever a mod corrected them, they went into the "I have autism don't yell at me."  So, they'd get another chance.  And another.  But then they started harassing and threatening people who didn't let them have their way.
> ...


That’s an interesting scenario indeed, though if there was only a way to truly tell whether they were being genuine or not. But somebody who can’t at least change a little bit already gives a red flag.


----------



## Purplefuzz (Sep 3, 2019)

BennyJackdaw said:


> It might be because "autism" has become the next "retarded." People throw it around as an insult, and it has made me feel ashamed to be an aspie.



I've noticed that it's so off putting how freely online it's said. But call it out cue how I'm being thin skinned and need to grow a pair?. I'm cringing hard at how on a hellbent stream he acting pretty poorly because he can't say the R word anymore because youtube rules?.



Parabellum3 said:


> That’s an interesting scenario indeed, though if there was only a way to truly tell whether they were being genuine or not. But somebody who can’t at least change a little bit already gives a red flag.



I highly doubt they had autism just being annoying assholes that cry victim. Giving more ammo to the ones who have a ignorant view on autism to be assholes.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 3, 2019)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Hmm... well, who really knows... it's kind of impossible to know the exact number due to undercounts, misdiagnoses, and the like... and so - one can only guess, really.... as to what the actual numbers are.
> 
> If I had to take a guess - I'd say it may be higher here in the Fandom as opposed to the general population, probably... but - people do change, also... (often times for the better)... up to the point where they no longer feel that their conditions are disabling... and so, the numbers could even ebb and flow, over the years, too... even with the same individuals.


I do believe there is a higher number here in the fandom. It gives them a chance to not be themselves and enjoy a better alternate life in the cyber world.

However, regardless whether they’ve changed for the better or got misdiagnosed. Society will still label them as inferior. Unless they can hide their disease pretty well.


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 3, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> I see. Well technically males are more likely to have autism than females then really the favor is generally leaning towards the females, not the males.


There's a few possible links that could be in play, if there's any link at all and not just chance. For simplicity' sake, let's work from the assumption that there are more males in fandom and that there's a higher incidence of autism diagnoses in fandom than in the general population.

1. There's more males in fandom because for some reason it attracts more males, and the higher rate of autism is due to the fact that males are more likely to have an autism diagnosis.

2. Furry fandom attracts a disproportionate amount of people who feel like social outcasts. People with autism often feel like they're social outcasts. Ergo, more people with autism enter fandom, and those people are more likely to be male than female. (This doesn't really make much sense, as the percentage of autistic furries is too small to skew gender balance significantly.)

Either way, that there's more male than female furries is generally accepted; most of the discussion on that topic is more as to what the proportions are. I lean towards a pretty small imbalance, others lean towards believing in a larger gap.


----------



## Troj (Sep 4, 2019)

As I recall, Furscience's research has found that autism prevalence in the fandom is about 2.5 greater than the general population.

Emerging research suggests that women with autism are often misdiagnosed, diagnosed late in life, or missed entirely on account of manifesting different signs and symptoms from men with autism. 

New research would also appear to suggest that people on the spectrum are more likely to identify as trans and to exhibit signs of gender fluidity and gender nonconformity.

It's all fascinating, and there's still so much we don't know.


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## MaetheDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Well, I for one have been diagnosed with Asperger’s, a form of Autism since I’ve been born, and I’m a cis female. Maybe it’s because my symptoms are more severe than the typical woman with autism, but there’s that. I guess I’m a one in a million type of person.

But, I don’t have anything else to add, as it is true that women with autism are more likely to be misdiagnosed, or not diagnosed at all until someone finally figures out they’re autistic. I’ve been told by medical professionals that I’m quite the exception, in that regard.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

Troj said:


> As I recall, Furscience's research has found that autism prevalence in the fandom is about 2.5 greater than the general population.
> 
> Emerging research suggests that women with autism are often misdiagnosed, diagnosed late in life, or missed entirely on account of manifesting different signs and symptoms from men with autism.
> 
> ...


Hm that's something I haven't heard off. Referring to the gender identification.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

Do you mean that your symptoms are more noticeable?


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## MaetheDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Do you mean that your symptoms are more noticeable?



Yes, it appears to be so. Women tend to work a little differently than men mentally, especially in regards to autism. Given that men are the largest demographic in the autistic community, I guess I just have more noticeable symptoms that males with autism usually display. The rate of misdiagnosis of women with autism speaks to the possibility of that, fren.

So, yeah, I guess my symptoms are more noticeable for that reason.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> Yes, it appears to be so. Women tend to work a little differently than men mentally, especially in regards to autism. Given that men are the largest demographic in the autistic community, I guess I just have more noticeable symptoms that males with autism usually display. The rate of misdiagnosis of women with autism speaks to the possibility of that, fren.
> 
> So, yeah, I guess my symptoms are more noticeable for that reason.


Huh I'm sorry to hear that. I at least hope that it won't make that much of a difference when it comes to being treated by others.


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## MaetheDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Huh I'm sorry to hear that. I at least hope that it won't make that much of a difference when it comes to being treated by others.



I was actually bullied a lot while I was in school, especially during elementary and middle school. People would make fun of me for acting so strangely, as my autism, half deafness, and social anxiety made me oblivious to a lot of things that might have been strange to neurotypical people.

But, I made great friends in high school, and I’m now transitioning into regular adult life. My autism affects little things here and there, but now, it’s not affecting my life in such a powerful way.

I’m getting better now.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> I was actually bullied a lot while I was in school, especially during elementary and middle school. People would make fun of me for acting so strangely, as my autism, half deafness, and social anxiety made me oblivious to a lot of things that might have been strange to neurotypical people.
> 
> But, I made great friends in high school, and I’m now transitioning into regular adult life. My autism affects little things here and there, but now, it’s not affecting my life in such a powerful way.
> 
> I’m getting better now.


That sucks and it makes sense but I'm glad that you got through it! Now it seems that your life is stable. Come to think of it I feel that it is the opposite for me.


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## MaetheDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> That sucks and it makes sense but I'm glad that you got through it! Now it seems that your life is stable. Come to think of it I feel that it is the opposite for me.



Well, I hope your life gets better, fren. Whether it’s because of your autism, or something else, I managed to get myself out of a very dark place. If someone like me could do that, then I know you will, too. Even if it seems hopeless.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> Well, I hope your life gets better, fren. Whether it’s because of your autism, or something else, I managed to get myself out of a very dark place. If someone like me could do that, then I know you will, too. Even if it seems hopeless.


Yes that's true I suppose. But I feel like time is against me.


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## MaetheDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yes that's true I suppose. But I feel like time is against me.



Then prove time wrong, fren. That’s the only advice I have to give for that.


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> Then prove time wrong, fren. That’s the only advice I have to give for that.


Yeah I'll try. I can only hope though that my efforts won't be futile.


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## MaetheDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yeah I'll try. I can only hope though that my efforts won't be futile.



That’s all you can do at the end of the day, fren. Just know that I’m cheering you on from the sidelines!


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## Parabellum3 (Sep 4, 2019)

MCtheBeardie said:


> That’s all you can do at the end of the day, fren. Just know that I’m cheering you on from the sidelines!


Thank you so much! I'll definitely keep that in mind!


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## mustelidcreature (Sep 4, 2019)

I've got Asperger's here
probably ADHD too if that's possible
my brain didn't want to read the post besides the title so idk if that's all you're asking (who's on the spectrum or not)


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## Peach's (Sep 4, 2019)

Not me, mom tried to diagnose me as being on the spectrum, after many years the therapist told her that I am just a weird kid.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Sep 4, 2019)

Peebes said:


> Not me, mom tried to diagnose me as being on the spectrum, after many years the therapist told her that I am just a weird kid.


As someone who actually writes diagnoses, albeit not for autism, a slight feeling of discomfort is slowly creeping up my throat just from reading "mom tried to diagnose me".


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## Wabbajax (Sep 4, 2019)

ClumsyWitch said:


> As someone who actually writes diagnoses, albeit not for autism, a slight feeling of discomfort is slowly *creeping up my throat* just from reading "mom tried to diagnose me".



That's just the eggsalad sandwich you had for lunch.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Sep 4, 2019)

Wabbajax said:


> That's just the eggsalad sandwich you had for lunch.


I'm pretty sure it's the bullshit that's making me want to throw up.


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## Wabbajax (Sep 4, 2019)

ClumsyWitch said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the bullshit that's making me want to throw up.



Why would you willingly eat bullshit?! That's disgusting and bad for your health! No wonder you feel ill!

Ok, I'm done derailing the thread. Sorry...


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## Faexie (Sep 4, 2019)

Autistic here, just wanting to clarify a few things: Autism isn't an illness, it's a neurological differences that can be disabling in some way, in big parts because autistic people live in a society that is not adapted to their needs and that is not willing to accept them as they are (most recommended therapy, ABA, aims to change autistic people's behaviors so that they appear less autistic, without caring about why these behaviors happen or why they might actually be beneficial). Autism isn't entirely bad either, there are a lot of positive and neutral traits associated to the condition. Also, since I see that a lot of autistic people here use person first languague (with autism, rather than autistic), I'm not going to demand for identity first language (autistic rather than with autism), but within the autistic rights community person first is eavily disliked (here's why, if you're curious: autisticadvocacy.org: Identity-First Language

Alright, done advocating, time for theorizing!

I think the reason why there are more autistic people in the fandom (aside from the fact that it is very welcoming of more excentric people), is that autistic people are more easily drawn to non mainstream lifestyles and interest. I've had a few discussions in an autistic facebook group I'm in (Sounds Like You Should Ask An Autistic But Okay), and it seems that while allistics (non autistics) people tend to form interests mainly through socializing and are therefore more likely to have similar tastes and lifestyle to the culture they live in, autistic people tend to take a more independant approach at this, getting into something because they got curious about it and ended up likng it or finding that it made a lot of sense to them, with little to no social influence. And with the internet, autistic people are way more likely to dicover things outside of their culture's social norms! Of course, these are generalizations, but this is what I and a lot of autistic people have noticed.

Also, while I've found that being socially alienated was painful (got a satisfying social life now though, so all is good), I also learned to see it as an opportinity for freedom. As in, ''I don't fit in anyway, and faking being someone else feels wrong,  so why not just do and be what I want?'' Without harming anyone of course, I'm not an asshole   I think that this kind of mentality might be shared by a couple of autistic people too, so that's another factor.

About non-mainstream tastes and lifestyles: I've also noticed that autistic people are more common in my polyamorous facebook groups as well, which seems to support what I've said. It's also likely that subcultures that don't adhere to social norm are more accepting of people who don't (or struggle to) adhere to social norms :V


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 4, 2019)

ClumsyWitch said:


> As someone who actually writes diagnoses, albeit not for autism, a slight feeling of discomfort is slowly creeping up my throat just from reading "mom tried to diagnose me".


If that creeps you out, never ever touch the book _Aspergirls_ with a five-foot pole (I'm not on the autism spectrum, but a doctor suggested it to me for really daft reasons). IIRC the author is self-diagnosed, she to some degree advocates for self-diagnosing, and while supposedly "empowering" it's full of absolutely terrible (as in, objectively this-is-not-going-to-be-healthy-for-you) advice. No shade if you're (gen) autistic and find it helped you, but I personally found her medical and social/relationship advice really creepy. There has to be better resources out there.



Ramona Rat said:


> Also, since I see that a lot of autistic people here use person first languague (with autism, rather than autistic), I'm not going to demand for identity first language (autistic rather than with autism), but within the autistic rights community person first is eavily disliked (here's why, if you're curious: autisticadvocacy.org: Identity-First Language


I will admit I have issues remembering which way around that one goes; thank you for the reminder. I have thoughts about it on a philosophical-linguistic level, but I'd rather be respectful to the people actually being talked about than put energy into turning the issue over to examine it from every possible angle.  It's actually not dissimilar, in that regard, to honoring people's preferred pronouns.



Ramona Rat said:


> About non-mainstream tastes and lifestyles: I've also noticed that autistic people are more common in my polyamorous facebook groups as well, which seems to support what I've said


I believe polyamory is also more common among people with other queer identities, which to me suggests there could be another related connection: queer people have already crossed a social boundary in regards to sexuality, and I'd guess autistic people feel less obliged to conform to social norms? I suspect not all people who have the potential for healthy non-monogamous relationships pursue that venue, but people who are more open to crossing social boundaries may be more likely to. Just a thought.


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## Deleted member 132067 (Sep 4, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> If that creeps you out, never ever touch the book _Aspergirls_ with a five-foot pole (I'm not on the autism spectrum, but a doctor suggested it to me for really daft reasons). IIRC the author is self-diagnosed, she to some degree advocates for self-diagnosing, and while supposedly "empowering" it's full of absolutely terrible (as in, objectively this-is-not-going-to-be-healthy-for-you) advice. No shade if you're (gen) autistic and find it helped you, but I personally found her medical and social/relationship advice really creepy. There has to be better resources out there.


Yup, definitely sounds like something I don't want to read. I'm sorry to hear you needed to go through such a read. 
Thanks for the warning though.


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## Wabbajax (Sep 4, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Also, since I see that a lot of autistic people here use person first languague (with autism, rather than autistic), I'm not going to demand for identity first language (autistic rather than with autism), but within the autistic rights community person first is eavily disliked (here's why, if you're curious: autisticadvocacy.org: Identity-First Language



I apologize. I had no idea there was a preference. I have edited my previous replies in light of this new information. Thank you.


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## Faexie (Sep 4, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> If that creeps you out, never ever touch the book _Aspergirls_ with a five-foot pole (I'm not on the autism spectrum, but a doctor suggested it to me for really daft reasons). IIRC the author is self-diagnosed, she to some degree advocates for self-diagnosing, and while supposedly "empowering" it's full of absolutely terrible (as in, objectively this-is-not-going-to-be-healthy-for-you) advice. No shade if you're (gen) autistic and find it helped you, but I personally found her medical and social/relationship advice really creepy. There has to be better resources out there.



Never read Aspergirls, but I've mostly heard good about it. Can you tell me what is problematic about it?

I personally find self diagnosis, at least for autism, to be valid tbh. Not everyone has access to a psychiatrist, and when they do there is no guarantee that said psychiatrist won't have innacurate preconceptions about autism (for example that you can't be autistic if you have job/ are a woman/ look them in the eye/ have empathy).

I'm not officially diagnosed yet, though I'm on a waiting list and have a temporary diagnosis so I can access to some accomodations, but my self diagnosis is one of the best things I've ever done for myself. Before that, I had absolutely no idea of what was going on with myself. I tried to analyse my behavior and feelings based on neurotypical models, and it never was quite right. I also felt very guilty about my shortcoming, not doing things that seemed so easy for everyone else... Through learning more about autism and interacting with other autistic people though, I finally am able to make sense of myself. I learned strategies to take better care of myself, I became more aware of my needs, I finally found people who can relate to me on things I thought no one would get... I'm so much happier and energized since.

There may be problems when it comes to diagnosing yourself with mental illnesses, with them being romanticized and with misconceptions making it more likely that people will think they have the illness, while they don't and might have nothing else. Which is harmful because it promotes these misconceptions. 
However, the misconceptions about autism is more likely to make people think that there is no way they are autistic, rather than the other way around.


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## Doodle Bunny (Sep 4, 2019)

I wasn’t officially diagnosed until recently. I was marked with “tendencies” as a kiddo, but I didn’t see it in black and white until I started going to therapy for intense social anxiety and panic attacks.

It makes me super self conscious of everything I do when socializing. I hear every stutter, stumble, rambling round-about explanation. It’s so embarrassing and every little thing just pings against my mind. It’s frustrating.


----------



## LittleBearArnold (Sep 4, 2019)

I got diagnosed asrperger as an adult, by my psychologist.
And I kind of live in a momment of denial.
He amigrated and I no longer have access to a medical health counselor to help me understand what is this and what I should do or expect about it.
It's been two years ever since and I have a hard time talking about this withouth guidance.


----------



## Fallowfox (Sep 4, 2019)

quoting_mungo said:


> There's a few possible links that could be in play, if there's any link at all and not just chance. For simplicity' sake, let's work from the assumption that there are more males in fandom and that there's a higher incidence of autism diagnoses in fandom than in the general population.
> 
> 1. There's more males in fandom because for some reason it attracts more males, and the higher rate of autism is due to the fact that males are more likely to have an autism diagnosis.
> 
> ...



I would place my bets on the fandom attracting male fetishists, and there being evidence that sexual fetishims is more frequent among men with autism than men without.


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## ZeroVoidTime (Sep 4, 2019)

Fallowfox said:


> I would place my bets on the fandom attracting male fetishists, and there being evidence that sexual fetishims is more frequent among men with autism than men without.


I am curious where you got that information from...... (UGGHH I literally spent minutes trying phrase this statement in a non-creepy fashion with minimum amount sleep last night........ >.<)


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## quoting_mungo (Sep 4, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Never read Aspergirls, but I've mostly heard good about it. Can you tell me what is problematic about it?


It's been a few years, so I've probably pushed some of the things I found incredibly problematic out of mind. Probably have my notes on it somewhere, but "somewhere" is one of those places that you can't reliably find if you go looking for them. A few things I still remember:
* Stops only _just_ short of saying autistic/aspie women should not take psychoactive medication ever (might have been prescription meds period, but I _think_ it was specifically psychoactive meds)
* Characterizes a romantic partner as, basically, a friend who has a duty to put up with your shit and/or to cater to your issues - it read very much as encouraging abusive behavior to me and a couple of friends I shared the passage with to make sure I wasn't imagining things
* Repeatedly pathologizes completely normal behavior. Always putting your keys in the same place so you can find them next time you need them is apparently an autistic trait and not common sense?

Again, if you read it and it helps you, great. I'm not trying to rain on people who found it helpful. To me it had enough flaws that at the very least made it feel disturbing to have the book come with a recommendation from an MD.



Ramona Rat said:


> I personally find self diagnosis, at least for autism, to be valid tbh. Not everyone has access to a psychiatrist, and when they do there is no guarantee that said psychiatrist won't have innacurate preconceptions about autism (for example that you can't be autistic if you have job/ are a woman/ look them in the eye/ have empathy).


I'm very torn on self-diagnosis in general, as there are both advantages and pitfalls with it in concept, though noting that the author encourages self-diagnosis was mostly for Witch's benefit as it sounded like something that would make her not have a good time with the book. Whether or not you (gen) consider self-diagnosis to be valid, there's nothing stopping someone from incorporating coping mechanisms and strategies that have their roots in a particular condition if those strategies are helpful to them, regardless. If it makes you feel better to incorporate a self-diagnosis into your identity, by all means. 

(Though honestly, we may need to agree to disagree on misconceptions about autism making people shy away from thinking the diagnosis might apply to them. I feel like I've seen a lot of people basically going "I'm socially awkward so I must be autistic.")


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## Faexie (Sep 4, 2019)

Doodle Bunny said:


> I wasn’t officially diagnosed until recently. I was marked with “tendencies” as a kiddo, but I didn’t see it in black and white until I started going to therapy for intense social anxiety and panic attacks.
> 
> It makes me super self conscious of everything I do when socializing. I hear every stutter, stumble, rambling round-about explanation. It’s so embarrassing and every little thing just pings against my mind. It’s frustrating.





LittleBearArnold said:


> I got diagnosed asrperger as an adult, by my psychologist.
> And I kind of live in a momment of denial.
> He amigrated and I no longer have access to a medical health counselor to help me understand what is this and what I should do or expect about it.
> It's been two years ever since and I have a hard time talking about this withouth guidance.


 
Have you tried joining forums or groups of autistic people? And by that I mean that it's mostly populated by autistics, and not by parents and professionals. It gives a sense of belonging and makes it easier to understand yourself through relating to others. It also helped me feel more okay with my social mistakes, which ended up helping me become more confident 



quoting_mungo said:


> It's been a few years, so I've probably pushed some of the things I found incredibly problematic out of mind. Probably have my notes on it somewhere, but "somewhere" is one of those places that you can't reliably find if you go looking for them. A few things I still remember:
> * Stops only _just_ short of saying autistic/aspie women should not take psychoactive medication ever (might have been prescription meds period, but I _think_ it was specifically psychoactive meds)
> * Characterizes a romantic partner as, basically, a friend who has a duty to put up with your shit and/or to cater to your issues - it read very much as encouraging abusive behavior to me and a couple of friends I shared the passage with to make sure I wasn't imagining things
> * Repeatedly pathologizes completely normal behavior. Always putting your keys in the same place so you can find them next time you need them is apparently an autistic trait and not common sense?
> ...



Oh I see. Yeah, I donct agree with these things either


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## Doodle Bunny (Sep 4, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> Have you tried joining forums or groups of autistic people? And by that I mean that it's mostly populated by autistics, and not by parents and professionals. It gives a sense of belonging and makes it easier to understand yourself through relating to others. It also helped me feel more okay with my social mistakes, which ended up helping me become more confident
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I see. Yeah, I donct agree with these things either


I have a pretty good sense of belonging here.

But, I definitely have a few questions and things gnawing at my brain.


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## Peach's (Sep 5, 2019)

ClumsyWitch said:


> As someone who actually writes diagnoses, albeit not for autism, a slight feeling of discomfort is slowly creeping up my throat just from reading "mom tried to diagnose me".


My mom liked to self prescribe people with things in advance and worries about nonsense issues.


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## Peach's (Sep 6, 2019)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> They're called "professionals" for a reason.... and so - it certainly wouldn't hurt to see them, probably.



I did clarify at the beginning that she did bring to me a psychologist who shot her down on the matter.


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## reptile logic (Sep 7, 2019)

I've answered a number of threads like this, on this forum. Aspergers here, diagnosed later in life. Still, I served four years in the military, ten years as a wild-land firefighter, worked construction, worked as a car mechanic, worked (and sometimes still do) as a motorcycle technician, drove big trucks, worked as a waiter (that proved exceptionally stressful to me), worked as a farmhand, worked in warehouses, I write... One can argue that I haven't been able to establish a stable career, but I wake up most every morning with a smile, and mean it. I also travel as much as I can afford; often on my motorcycle and camp out in the evenings.

I have never felt the need to take any medication for it; nor has any been prescribed. In fact, beyond coffee, occasional alcohol and some marijuana (avg less than 7 grams/month),  I don't take any drugs.


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## Faexie (Sep 7, 2019)

reptile logic said:


> I've answered a number of threads like this, on this forum. Aspergers here, diagnosed later in life. Still, I served four years in the military, ten years as a wild-land firefighter, worked construction, worked as a car mechanic, worked (and sometimes still do) as a motorcycle technician, drove big trucks, worked as a waiter (that proved exceptionally stressful to me), worked as a farmhand, worked in warehouses, I write... One can argue that I haven't been able to establish a stable career, but I wake up most every morning with a smile, and mean it. I also travel as much as I can afford; often on my motorcycle and camp out in the evenings.
> 
> I have never felt the need to take any medication for it; nor has any been prescribed. In fact, beyond coffee, occasional alcohol and some marijuana (avg less than 7 grams/month),  I don't take any drugs.


There isn't really any drugs specifically for autistic people anyway. Anti anciety meds can help with those who easily get anxious or overwhelmed and adhd meds can help with executive dysfunctions sometimes, but usually just having coping strategies and making it so that you're in a favorable environment is the best you can do.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Sep 8, 2019)

Ramona Rat said:


> but usually just having coping strategies and making it so that you're in a favorable environment is the best you can do.



Favorable environment, you say?  There were a few things I was trying to sort out when researching autism and I'm starting to wonder if there's some issues with my own environment.

Part of the thing is I'm in a family of overachievers (no, seriously, they seem to do well in almost everything - and up until I got into the workforce, so did I) and I've felt like I'm stuck in a paradox.  I feel inferior because I haven't been able to stay in the same job for long (thanks to basically nonexistent interview ability, I can only seem to get employment through family connections, temp agencies, or past glories with the specific company), mainly because I can't seem to make my own destiny for the most part.  Yet I start going into guilt mode and panic whenever I'm way ahead of people in anything competitive because crushing competition always makes me feel like I'm a bully.  I can't be mean like that.

Trying to see if I can work around that problem and my practically business-only method of speaking (verbal small talk is basically out of the question for me face-to-face - it has to be about interests or a job at hand) before I move out of the house (aside from college, haven't been able to do that at all in my 34 years - people tell me "it's a millennial thing", I have a VERY hard time believing that for a millisecond because I "know" I'm supposed to be able to do better).


For the record, the other things I was trying to research were "autistic burnout" (of which my understanding is it's easily confused for depression but is brought about by long-term overload) and "masking" (the clinically-loved but ultimately detrimental practice of trying to pass as neurotypical), mainly in the interest of trying to get past the burnout I've had for at least the last two years and possibly longer (much like the paranoia, I suspect this is another thing hindering my fandom participation).  I'd thought I was still masking at one point, but now it occurs to me that I have basically zero masking ability (and outright may never have had it from the start), got by on everything else, and merely suffered burnout because I tried to do too much too fast.

(Some people call the burnout thing "autistic regression"... frankly, I KIND OF hate that term.)


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## Fallowfox (Sep 8, 2019)

ZeroVoidTime said:


> I am curious where you got that information from...... (UGGHH I literally spent minutes trying phrase this statement in a non-creepy fashion with minimum amount sleep last night........ >.<)



Paraphilias tend to be more common in people with Autistic Spectrum Disorder to my knowledge. For clarity paraphilias are harmful or extreme sexual fetishes, so this isn't_ quite_ the same as my suggestion. 

link.springer.com: Aspects of Sexuality in Adolescents and Adults Diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders in Childhood


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## TheFirstDecade (Nov 15, 2019)

Coming up front that i had to get an account to join in on this conversation (edit. Yes i know it hasn’t been active in over two months so sue me), sure my mind wanders all over the frickin place with my ADHD but i do get the memo of this so far. I am a diagnosed Autistic Individual and yes i did have my fair share of struggles of a being with Aspergers. But as im growing up more and graduating my senior class in the early dawn of the summer (parents decided to wait an entire school year to get me into Highschool), having been in a special education curriculum of Developmental Learn Program up to 7th grade, and going full mainstream in 8th (that 8th grade school i was in REALLY put me in the shoes of how this disability gets teased and treated), it dawns on me that anyone whom can have a type of High-functionality can start helping themselves as they become adults, i mean, i still react to flashing lights, loud noises, texture of things and others, but thats just what we do to keep ourselves stimulated in a sense. To keep ourselves in sentience as i want to think of it.

But all in all, if there was a flag that represented autism, i’d have my face painted as that flag, bare chested, waving that banner of a cultural treasure all over the damn place! Im happy i can find a small autistic community within the much larger Furry Fandom that i can identify with the most, my autism is what DRIVES my creativity and art-making, i have made things that people haven’t (since im a bit dissident on the issue that everything isn’t all DIY to most). Some of my friends on discord are autistic individuals as well, and they are the ones whom care for me the most, i even starting to think my own GF is autistic!

But i have to say, i have the power to ignore all negative connotations with the “disease” as some label it. We all have the power to beat negativity even at times we are a vocal minority on the internet.

But god damn i tell you, im really proud for what brings us together, so why don’t cha celebrate it too?!


----------



## Parabellum3 (Nov 15, 2019)

TheFirstDecade said:


> Coming up front that i had to get an account to join in on this conversation (edit. Yes i know it hasn’t been active in over two months so sue me), sure my mind wanders all over the frickin place with my ADHD but i do get the memo of this so far. I am a diagnosed Autistic Individual and yes i did have my fair share of struggles of a being with Aspergers. But as im growing up more and graduating my senior class in the early dawn of the summer (parents decided to wait an entire school year to get me into Highschool), having been in a special education curriculum of Developmental Learn Program up to 7th grade, and going full mainstream in 8th (that 8th grade school i was in REALLY put me in the shoes of how this disability gets teased and treated), it dawns on me that anyone whom can have a type of High-functionality can start helping themselves as they become adults, i mean, i still react to flashing lights, loud noises, texture of things and others, but thats just what we do to keep ourselves stimulated in a sense. To keep ourselves in sentience as i want to think of it.
> 
> But all in all, if there was a flag that represented autism, i’d have my face painted as that flag, bare chested, waving that banner of a cultural treasure all over the damn place! Im happy i can find a small autistic community within the much larger Furry Fandom that i can identify with the most, my autism is what DRIVES my creativity and art-making, i have made things that people haven’t (since im a bit dissident on the issue that everything isn’t all DIY to most). Some of my friends on discord are autistic individuals as well, and they are the ones whom care for me the most, i even starting to think my own GF is autistic!
> 
> ...


Autism is still a disease, or an illness. The doctors say it and both you and I know it. It's impacting my social life and my performance at college. While yes it can bring you unique skills but that is quite uncommon for the majority of autistic patients. 

I believe that instead of acceptance, we should fight it and put more resources in research for a cure or at least an effective treatment. Yes you can be mad at me but I do agree with Autism Speaks. For now, the least I can do is continue taking a lot of medications  or drink myself to death if I have to get over certain episodes. I simply don't see another alternative.


----------



## countess_jay (Nov 15, 2019)

TheFirstDecade said:


> Coming up front that i had to get an account to join in on this conversation (edit. Yes i know it hasn’t been active in over two months so sue me), sure my mind wanders all over the frickin place with my ADHD but i do get the memo of this so far. I am a diagnosed Autistic Individual and yes i did have my fair share of struggles of a being with Aspergers. But as im growing up more and graduating my senior class in the early dawn of the summer (parents decided to wait an entire school year to get me into Highschool), having been in a special education curriculum of Developmental Learn Program up to 7th grade, and going full mainstream in 8th (that 8th grade school i was in REALLY put me in the shoes of how this disability gets teased and treated), it dawns on me that anyone whom can have a type of High-functionality can start helping themselves as they become adults, i mean, i still react to flashing lights, loud noises, texture of things and others, but thats just what we do to keep ourselves stimulated in a sense. To keep ourselves in sentience as i want to think of it.
> 
> But all in all, if there was a flag that represented autism, i’d have my face painted as that flag, bare chested, waving that banner of a cultural treasure all over the damn place! Im happy i can find a small autistic community within the much larger Furry Fandom that i can identify with the most, *my autism is what DRIVES my creativity and art-making*, i have made things that people haven’t (since im a bit dissident on the issue that everything isn’t all DIY to most). Some of my friends on discord are autistic individuals as well, and they are the ones whom care for me the most, i even starting to think my own GF is autistic!
> But i have to say, i have the power to ignore all negative connotations with the “disease” as some label it. We all have the power to beat negativity even at times we are a vocal minority on the internet.
> But god damn i tell you, im really proud for what brings us together, so why don’t cha celebrate it too?!



Another autistic here and I relate to this. I do feel like a have a superpower with my autistic: how I can just obsess about a thing and how sensitive I am to outer senses. I used to hate being "the special kid" in school bur not IDGAF. I felt like an x-man (even tho i'm not big on superheroes, they are some I not only thought were awesome, but I related to).



reptile logic said:


> I've answered a number of threads like this, on this forum. Aspergers here, diagnosed later in life. Still, I served four years in the military, ten years as a wild-land firefighter, worked construction, worked as a car mechanic, worked (and sometimes still do) as a motorcycle technician, drove big trucks, worked as a waiter (that proved exceptionally stressful to me), worked as a farmhand, worked in warehouses, I write... One can argue that I haven't been able to establish a stable career, but I wake up most every morning with a smile, and mean it. I also travel as much as I can afford; often on my motorcycle and camp out in the evenings.
> 
> *I have never felt the need to take any medication for it; nor has any been prescribed. In fact, beyond coffee, occasional alcohol and some marijuana (avg less than 7 grams/month),  I don't take any drugs*.



Wish I was happy as you in my life because college is a hellhole. You're goals. I felt more of a need to take medication for my mental health instead of my disability.


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## Parabellum3 (Nov 15, 2019)

countess_jay said:


> Another autistic here and I relate to this. I do feel like a have a superpower with my autistic: how I can just obsess about a thing and how sensitive I am to outer senses. I used to hate being "the special kid" in school bur not IDGAF. I felt like an x-man (even tho i'm not big on superheroes, they are some I not only thought were awesome, but I related to).
> 
> 
> 
> Wish I was happy as you in my life because college is a hellhole. You're goals. I felt more of a need to take medication for my mental health instead of my disability.


He says that he has ASPERGERS. But we have AUTISM. Two different things and unfortunately we are on the lower scale of things.


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## countess_jay (Nov 15, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Autism is still a disease, or an illness. The doctors say it and both you and I know it. It's impacting my social life and my performance at college. While yes it can bring you unique skills but that is quite uncommon for the majority of autistic patients.
> 
> I believe that instead of acceptance, we should fight it and put more resources in research for a cure or at least an effective treatment. Yes you can be mad at me but I do agree with Autism Speaks. For now, the least I can do is continue taking a lot of medications  or drink myself to death if I have to get over certain episodes. I simply don't see another alternative.


Me and my autism have a love hate relationship, like sometimes I feel like it's a superpower and others I think it's a disease.  What is the deal with Autism Speaks?


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## countess_jay (Nov 15, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> He says that he has ASPERGERS. But we have AUTISM. Two different things and unfortunately we are on the lower scale of things.


I meant have aspergers, I use them interchangeable.


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## Xitheon (Nov 16, 2019)

Yes I'm fucking autistic, no I don't fucking care what anyone thinks.


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## Parabellum3 (Nov 16, 2019)

Xitheon said:


> Yes I'm fucking autistic, no I don't fucking care what anyone thinks.


I've seen some of your previous and didn't you get into trouble because of that?


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## cheribun (Nov 16, 2019)

I'm somewhere on the spectrum, and one of the furries I knew irl was too.
I think autistic furries are most likely just a loud minority though, since it's probably their special interest.


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## Xitheon (Nov 16, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> I've seen some of your previous and didn't you get into trouble because of that?



?


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## Troj (Nov 16, 2019)

Autism is a NEUROTYPE. Autism itself falls along a broad spectrum, and its various associated features _also_ exist on a series of spectra. 

As with many things, the dose makes the poison. The genes associated with autism are also believed to play a role in high intelligence---but, obviously, autism is also associated with a number of debilitating deficits, as well. Upon closer inspection, a number of these deficits are actually "strengths-gone-wild." This suggests to me that, as a species, we _need_ people with autistic features. 

It's important to keep in mind that the world as we know it was largely constructed by neurotypicals, for neurotypicals--and so, many of the struggles autistic people face are not due to their own innate flaws, but rather, to a fundamental mis-match between the autistic individual and neurotypical society. Don't hate yourself for being a dolphin in a world of eagles! Yes, you'll need to adapt to the neurotypical world in various ways if you want to survive and thrive, but you absolutely shouldn't blame or shame yourself for not being neurotypical. You are valid, and the world needs all kinds in order to keep spinning.


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## Infrarednexus (Nov 16, 2019)

Troj said:


> Autism is a NEUROTYPE. Autism itself falls along a broad spectrum, and its various associated features _also_ exist on a series of spectra.
> 
> As with many things, the dose makes the poison. The genes associated with autism are also believed to play a role in high intelligence---but, obviously, autism is also associated with a number of debilitating deficits, as well. Upon closer inspection, a number of these deficits are actually "strengths-gone-wild." This suggests to me that, as a species, we _need_ people with autistic features.
> 
> It's important to keep in mind that the world as we know it was largely constructed by neurotypicals, for neurotypicals--and so, many of the struggles autistic people face are not due to their own innate flaws, but rather, to a fundamental mis-match between the autistic individual and neurotypical society. Don't hate yourself for being a dolphin in a world of eagles! Yes, you'll need to adapt to the neurotypical world in various ways if you want to survive and thrive, but you absolutely shouldn't blame or shame yourself for not being neurotypical. You are valid, and the world needs all kinds in order to keep spinning.


This is one of the most sensible posts I've read in this entire thread. As an autistic person, I couldn't agree with you more on the subject.

Thanks Troj for being a voice of reason here.


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## Tyll'a (Nov 16, 2019)

Troj said:


> Autism is a NEUROTYPE. Autism itself falls along a broad spectrum, and its various associated features _also_ exist on a series of spectra.
> 
> As with many things, the dose makes the poison. The genes associated with autism are also believed to play a role in high intelligence---but, obviously, autism is also associated with a number of debilitating deficits, as well. Upon closer inspection, a number of these deficits are actually "strengths-gone-wild." This suggests to me that, as a species, we _need_ people with autistic features.
> 
> It's important to keep in mind that the world as we know it was largely constructed by neurotypicals, for neurotypicals--and so, many of the struggles autistic people face are not due to their own innate flaws, but rather, to a fundamental mis-match between the autistic individual and neurotypical society. Don't hate yourself for being a dolphin in a world of eagles! Yes, you'll need to adapt to the neurotypical world in various ways if you want to survive and thrive, but you absolutely shouldn't blame or shame yourself for not being neurotypical. You are valid, and the world needs all kinds in order to keep spinning.



So true!  The way I like to think about it is to compare it to the Marvel universe.  Just because Wolverine isn't Iron Man doesn't mean he isn't a hero!  I'm autistic myself, and I wear that badge with pride.


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## Parabellum3 (Nov 17, 2019)

Troj said:


> Autism is a NEUROTYPE. Autism itself falls along a broad spectrum, and its various associated features _also_ exist on a series of spectra.
> 
> As with many things, the dose makes the poison. The genes associated with autism are also believed to play a role in high intelligence---but, obviously, autism is also associated with a number of debilitating deficits, as well. Upon closer inspection, a number of these deficits are actually "strengths-gone-wild." This suggests to me that, as a species, we _need_ people with autistic features.
> 
> It's important to keep in mind that the world as we know it was largely constructed by neurotypicals, for neurotypicals--and so, many of the struggles autistic people face are not due to their own innate flaws, but rather, to a fundamental mis-match between the autistic individual and neurotypical society. Don't hate yourself for being a dolphin in a world of eagles! Yes, you'll need to adapt to the neurotypical world in various ways if you want to survive and thrive, but you absolutely shouldn't blame or shame yourself for not being neurotypical. You are valid, and the world needs all kinds in order to keep spinning.


It really depends on the “variant” that you have got since it’s not a fixed illness. You can be like Einstein or a complete useless wreck that wants to kill itself. Then there are people in the middle like myself and the majority of autistics are stuck on what to do with themselves.


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## Faexie (Nov 17, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> It really depends on the “variant” that you have got since it’s not a fixed illness. You can be like Einstein or a complete useless wreck that wants to kill itself. Then there are people in the middle like myself and the majority of autistics are stuck on what to do with themselves.


Not only genius autistics can be happy, we all can. It's not the autism that makes autistic people miserable, it's the lack of acceptance and understanding.

And that's true for those with self harming stims or violent behaviors too! These behaviors don't simply exist because their autism forces them to do it, it's a reaction to something that's bothering then. Acceptance and understanding can help with it, by getting to know what makes them feel the need to hurt themselves (noise, lights, things people say about them thinking that they don't understand, even though they do...) and it makes it easier to find replacement behaviors that are safer and work for them.

And yes, autism can make it so that you can't do certain things, or even have to depend on others (though no human is truly independent). But even then, there is always things that you can do and things that you can enjoy. IMO focusing on these rather than on the things we're missing out on is the key to hapiness.

The sooner you start to accept yourself as you are and surround yourself by people who accept you as you are, the sooner you will be happy. It can be hard to get there, but it's the only way.


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## KD142000 (Nov 17, 2019)

I was going to post here ages ago, but I felt a tad stupid...as I'm not officially diagnosed with autism. Don't want to say I am without an assurance like a diagnosis.

I might be on the spectrum, though. I can remember a few points in my life where people suspected it...but back then, people weren't very nice about it. They basically said 'is there something wrong with you, KD?' to which I responded '...I don't think so'. It's just another thing that makes us unique.
I found that question rude. I'd say they were wrong for putting it like that.

I guess I'm trying to say that no one in the world is normal. No such thing as normality. It's just a construct based on what people think is 'normal' as a way of saying 'you should behave like this'. I treat everyone I know with the same respect cos we're all human. We're all a bit crazy and weird...and all the better for it, I say.

Maybe I am, but it certainly won't change my life. I've lived it up until now, so whatever happens, I can deal with it.

As for the furry fandom having people who are autistic in it...yeah, it definitely does, as some users who posted here are autistic. Would I say there's more autistic people in the fandom than people that aren't? Not really. And either way, it's not a bad thing.

Be like @PSDuckie and be proud of yourself, autistic or not.
Also, props to @Troj for the words of wisdom, there.


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## Faexie (Nov 17, 2019)

KD142000 said:


> Maybe I am, but it certainly won't change my life. I've lived it up until now, so whatever happens, I can deal with it.
> 
> As for the furry fandom having people who are autistic in it...yeah, it definitely does, as some users who posted here are autistic. Would I say there's more autistic people in the fandom than people that aren't? Not really. And either way, it's not a bad thing.



As an also self diagnosed autistic who's been doing okay before I knew, I have to say that I still find that joining the autistic community and learning about autism from autistic people has still been life changing: I understand myself so much better now, and it feels amazing to interact with people similar to me. 

There have been studies that show that there are twice as much autistic people in the fandom compared to the general population. So we're still a minority, but there is still more of us here


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## KD142000 (Nov 17, 2019)

Parabellum3 said:


> Autism is still a disease, or an illness. The doctors say it and both you and I know it. It's impacting my social life and my performance at college. While yes it can bring you unique skills but that is quite uncommon for the majority of autistic patients.
> 
> I believe that instead of acceptance, we should fight it and put more resources in research for a cure or at least an effective treatment. Yes you can be mad at me but I do agree with Autism Speaks. For now, the least I can do is continue taking a lot of medications  or drink myself to death if I have to get over certain episodes. I simply don't see another alternative.


Autism isn't something that should be cured. It's not always a bad thing. And to be honest, I'd expect people to cater to the needs of autistic people rather than attempt to cure it. Sure, it's hard to do that all the time, but the least people can do is make an effort.

A social life can still occur, even with autism. And believe me, college performance isn't everything. I didn't complete college, but what I would have gotten if I had continued would have been useless in the world of work. I couldn't complete it cos I was and still am to some extent an emotional wreck.

I wish you the very best of luck in life. Also, I'd stay away from alcohol. Becoming dependent on that will definitely ensure your social life will fall apart, as well as hurting others around you (this is coming from a victim of abuse by an alcoholic family member). Same goes for drugs (the bad kind, but there are some drugs that people consider to be good that you can also become reliant upon).




Ramona Rat said:


> As an also self diagnosed autistic who's been doing okay before I knew, I have to say that I still find that joining the autistic community and learning about autism from autistic people has still been life changing: I understand myself so much better now, and it feels amazing to interact with people similar to me.
> 
> There have been studies that show that there are twice as much autistic people in the fandom compared to the general population. So we're still a minority, but there is still more of us here


I'm glad you have experienced such a good change from joining the community.

I understand myself better, but I'm still not 100% there, yet. Sometimes, things don't sink in for me (might be linked to autism) and I keep doing things I damn well know I shouldn't do. After that, I get angry with myself.

If I am autistic...so be it. People should accept it.


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## Yakamaru (Nov 19, 2020)

Sorry for the necro. Didn't want to make a new thread..

For the sake of not typing Asperger's Syndrome/Disorder every time I will shorten it to Asperger's. I'm trying the best I can to.. Translate my thoughts, feelings and experiences into something other people can understand, relate to and possibly even learn from.

For the longest time in my life, for nearly as long as I can remember I have always felt that I am.. Different. I could sense it within me, in the very essence of my Being. But I had no words to describe it with, as no feeling or word were able to explain it. It's the sort of difference that you just.. Know is there. Watching the other kids you try to fit in but don't quite make it, ending up a bit of a social outcast in a way. And it hurt inside, not knowing or understanding why.

And in 2014 I heard something that may explain it for the first time, why I am socially awkward and have a hard time understanding social cues: Asperger's Syndrome. This obviously had me morbidly curious, wanting to understand it to its fullest, and so I did a lot of digging and reading. The psychiatrist/neuropsychologist I went to I was told had no official capacity to give any sort of diagnosis, and was thus put on ice up until about three moths ago. Why three months ago?

For the past 4 years I've been working day in and day out on cleaning up my life(everything from mental health, extreme social anxiety, being overweight, having no stamina, barely if at all any actual social skills to not even having a job, +++). And now was as good a time as any to follow up on this lead and have it confirmed. If I could get proper confirmation and an official diagnosis it would at the very least explain all the social issues I have had up over the years, and to this day still have not to mention will keep having in the future. Explain all the social stuff that's happened throughout my life. And so I got a referral to DPS, or the District Psychiatrist Center as what's it called over here in Norway. I got a letter back about a week or so after getting in touch with them and my referral from my doctor, saying I had already been diagnosed, which had me confused quite a lot, to put it mildly. Usually you get documents for this sort of stuff, right? Apparently I had already been given a diagnose on it but had not received any documents, which had me rather confused. Suppose there were some misunderstanding and/or miscommunication going on. But oh well. Onto the topic itself I suppose.

My perspective on having Asperger's is a little complicated. Though, where to even begin..

I've never really looked upon this as a sort of.. Liability. Something that keeps me down. Something to be ashamed of. A net negative although arguably at least it is considered a double-edged sword at times depending on the context and situation that I am in. Because for better or for worse this condition is part of me, and it's up to me to acknowledge, understand and accept/embrace it as such. And in these past 4 years I have learned a LOT in terms of not just understanding social cues but also people as a result of my broadened knowledge and understanding. My social anxiety is primarily tied into my lack of understanding people as well, something of which have been extremely reduced to the point where I can now do small talk with store clerks without any issues, same goes for small talk with my colleagues at work.

I've taken things one step at a time towards taking control over my own life, and I have no intention of letting this.. Condition keep me down. To use Asperger's as an excuse for bad behaviour or to tell myself I am not good enough in achieving whatever I set my eyes on. To tell myself I will never be able to achieve things on my own, that I am helpless without the assistance of others, that I can't stand on my own two feet with my head held up high, staring at the horizon and the goals of which I am aiming for.

Because the biggest obstacle in life is the one you see in the mirror on a daily basis: You. You are the one keeping you down in the large majority of cases. Why do you keep yourself down? Why do you consider yourself not good enough? Why do you not consider yourself worthy of any praise? Why do you not bother to aim for something in your life that of which uniquely will define you as an individual? Why do you talk negatively about yourself? Why.. Do you hate yourself for being who you are?

We all struggle with things in life, big and small and everywhere in between. We all have issues that we are dealing with, some of them are extremely well-hidden or may not be talked about because they can and will be sensitive to people. We are all flawed and extremely fallible beings. So why not embrace it instead? Embrace your flaws, embrace your short-comings. Be happy with yourself, and look inwards with the intention of not only being able to be happy with yourself at the end of the day, but to be better than what you were yesterday. Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not what someone else were yesterday. Have a good and honest look at yourself, have an inner monologue with yourself and ask yourself a billion different questions.

Asperger's will cause me to have limits in terms of what I will be able to know let alone understand, but until that ceiling truly have been hit I have no intention of standing still. Because I have many things in life that I want to achieve, one of them is to get my own house. A testimony that I will not drag myself down with negative thinking. Drag myself down with a negative attitude towards myself, all because I am different. All because people think less of me, that I am less capable than someone else because of this condition of mine. And you know what? I refuse to lay down because someone's expectations of me are low because of having Asperger's. I refuse to prevent myself from achieving my own life goals, I refuse to make myself into an obstacle to the things I want out of life.

And what am I doing with my life? I work full time in a warehouse driving forklifts for a living, earning $27 an hour(plenty of overtime available as well when needed and quite a lot of bonuses on top of it all). I have a T4 forklift license, and will be grabbing the T2 once that's possible. I will soon be getting my driver's license, and in a year or so will be picking up a Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA 1987 model as I build up my driving experience. And in a few years' time? Have my own house. A testimony and show of willpower that I refuse to let negativity drag me down, refuse to let those negative and demeaning voices at the back of my head drag me down into a life of misery of which I once lived in, a prison and Hell of my own making. I have already been at the bottom, so the only way is up.


Spoiler









She's a beauty, ain't she?

I will have to import most likely at some point considering Pontiacs and especially Trans Ams are rather rare over here in Norway.


One of the distinguishing aspects of those on the Autism spectrum is that they often end up with one or few pet obsessions, and I think I have found mine, one that ties heavily into my love for Synthwave and the 80's. I saw this beautiful car several months ago, and I can't stop thinking about it. I have had dreams where I drive Route 66 between LA and NYC in this car, Synthwave and/or 80's music playing from the car stereo and wearing typical 80's clothes and aviators. Yes I have already purchased a denim jacket and a good pair of jeans as well as the aviators to fit that 80's look.

For those of you out there who read this and have Asperger's/Autism: Embrace it and love it as it is a pretty significant part of yourself. Stop doubting yourself and your own abilities. Stop listening to the naysayers as they are not interested in seeing you succeed despite the condition that you're in. Break their expectations of you as well as your own. Aim high and work towards getting there. Because inside of you there are hidden gems that needs to found, extracted and polished.

Take control of your own life and steer your life in the direction that you want to go. This is *your* life, and yours alone. You set the limits, you set the boundaries but even more importantly, you set the goals you want to achieve and take the actions needed in order to achieve them.

Love yourself, and do so properly. If you can do that.. Then everything else may follow naturally.


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## Troj (Nov 20, 2020)

I like to think that a lot begins with self-acceptance.

Now, this brand of self-acceptance doesn't mean that you're unconditionally positive about everything that you are and everything that you do, because believing that your shit doesn't stink inevitably leads to hubris, arrogance, and delusion.

Rather, you need to accept your strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, and proclivities at a basic level, and then decide what you're going to do with them. Even if something isn't working or isn't productive, the first step is to at least call it by name and look it in the eye, because only then can you hope to plan a useful next move.

I also think it's useful to be able to critique and analyze yourself without hating on yourself as a whole being. That something about you is undesirable, flawed, or bad doesn't make you inherently "bad" _unless_ you choose to keep going down the shitty path.


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## NitroFastFur (Nov 21, 2020)

I'm just on the edge of the asperger's spectrum, but it's actually an advantage for me, as I'm employed in a technical capacity, so obsession with details is an advantage


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## Parabellum3 (Nov 30, 2020)

Dang, hadn't been here for a while. The amount of times times I've messed up makes it hard to accept myself in any way.


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## harvestmoon66 (Nov 30, 2020)

I have autism and find it to be something that’s just apart of me. We need different kind of minds imo. I can understand though it can be frustrating to. But I don’t want a cute. Just more understanding sis acceptance


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## MM13 (Nov 30, 2020)

I have autism and unlike some people on a certain forum who seem to lump all autistics with Chris Chan (who uses it as a crutch) I don't use autism for 'sympathy points' so to speak or anything since I legimitately have it according to medical records.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Nov 30, 2020)

MM13 said:


> I have autism and unlike some people on a certain forum who seem to lump all autistics with Chris Chan (who uses it as a crutch) I don't use autism for 'sympathy points' so to speak or anything since I legimitately have it according to medical records.



Oh THAT was a name I'm not sure I ever wanted to hear again...

Honestly, though, I REALLY hate the idea of the "autism card" (the fine line between that and self-advocacy is apparently how you're using it).  My own autism is just there, just a part of me that is, and I'm trying to compensate for it when possible.

Some of the old paranoia that I mentioned earlier in the thread is inevitably lingering though, as it seems I pretty much have this penchant for being so literal that I wind up reaching the wrong conclusions and being stuck on them.  Even if I can sometimes turn them around into something tolerable.  (There was a RECENT example of me doing that in fact.)


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## JacobFloofWoof (Nov 30, 2020)

Hopefully, one day I can be cured of this life-ruining neurobiological illness.


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## MM13 (Nov 30, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> Oh THAT was a name I'm not sure I ever wanted to hear again...
> 
> Honestly, though, I REALLY hate the idea of the "autism card" (the fine line between that and self-advocacy is apparently how you're using it).  My own autism is just there, just a part of me that is, and I'm trying to compensate for it when possible.
> 
> Some of the old paranoia that I mentioned earlier in the thread is inevitably lingering though, as it seems I pretty much have this penchant for being so literal that I wind up reaching the wrong conclusions and being stuck on them.  Even if I can sometimes turn them around into something tolerable.  (There was a RECENT example of me doing that in fact.)


It's pretty much to me like implying that creators who have bisexual characters or characters who are in 'same sex relationships' are doing it to just appeal to the LGTBT crowd and as an excuse to say 'take that critics, you cannot mock this character because this character is bi/homosexual and always has been'.   My friends, and my family (which only consists of my mother now considering my dad died two years ago) know that i'm autistic, I don't ask for special treatment.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 14, 2020)

Do you all also hate the schmucks who say “It’s ok to be XYZ” and put salt on Autism Speaks who are trying to find a cure or more effective treatment?


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 14, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Do you all also hate the schmucks who say “It’s ok to be XYZ” and put salt on Autism Speaks who are trying to find a cure or more effective treatment?


Autism Speaks basically acts like our curse (and I feel very weird even calling it that) isn't also a blessing.  Were there more respectful treatment of the condition in the first place we wouldn't even NEED to consider a cure.  At the same time, I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say that I'm not going to give people too much crap for wanting to cure the condition because... just because I've already learned a lot of what I have to do in order to adapt to society, doesn't mean everyone gets the opportunity.

I think of a number of extra comorbid conditions and of children for whom the sensory overload (or other issues) is so much worse than mine that they wind up extremely aggressive (there are a worrying number of stories out there of parents of autistic children that wind up with physical scars, not to mention mental ones), and the idea of people pressing for a cure for autism makes an incredibly DISTURBING level of sense.

I wish it didn't have to be this way.


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## Xitheon (Dec 14, 2020)

I was autistic before it was all the cool new thing.

I also have a shitload of mental health issues and possible schizophrenia but I don't want to boast.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 14, 2020)

I’d personally do anything for a cure. And AS can be all bad if they want to be because society as a whole doesn’t care about us, which also points out their hypocrisy.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 14, 2020)

Another funny thing is that some people won’t allow me to call myself “retarded” because I’m offending so and so. They don’t even wanna give me the right to say anything about myself yet they still treat me as a special person. It should give them a hint that I’m not so retarded since I consciously know what the word means and I’m appropriately using it. But if they treat me like I’m retarded then I should have the right to call myself that. Am I right?


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 15, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Another funny thing is that some people won’t allow me to call myself “retarded” because I’m offending so and so. They don’t even wanna give me the right to say anything about myself yet they still treat me as a special person. It should give them a hint that I’m not so retarded since I consciously know what the word means and I’m appropriately using it. But if they treat me like I’m retarded then I should have the right to call myself that. Am I right?


I've... yet to run across people so self-righteous that they won't let someone use their own terminology.

Some news things from advocates insist people put the person first ("with autism"), but I'm perfectly okay with having the condition come first ("autistic"). And that's about as close to it as I've ever been.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 15, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> I've... yet to run across people so self-righteous that they won't let someone use their own terminology.
> 
> Some news things from advocates insist people put the person first ("with autism"), but I'm perfectly okay with having the condition come first ("autistic"). And that's about as close to it as I've ever been.


It happened on Reddit and Amino so that can be an exception lol.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 15, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> It happened on Reddit and Amino so that can be an exception lol.


Oh, the people that do this in real life tend to wind up on viral candid video.  I can't say much about Reddit as I don't go there.


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## NitroFastFur (Dec 17, 2020)

Just on the asperger's spectrum, but only actually been aware for a year or two. It doesn't really change me, but makes me understand my own behavior better.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 17, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Do you all also hate the schmucks who say “It’s ok to be XYZ” and put salt on Autism Speaks who are trying to find a cure or more effective treatment?


Autism Speaks can go fuck themselves with a rake and go bankrupt for all I care. They are for Autistic people like what PETA are for pets, essentially. They treat Autistic people like myself as if we are incapable of thinking let alone speak for ourselves. It's ran by a whole bunch of people with white knight syndrome, a superiority complex as well as a saviour complex. Have ta save all the poor, defenseless, inept and stupid Autistic people, yanno. Treat us like we're inferior and in need of protection like some child that is incapable of making decisions on their own. 

Personally I don't want a "cure", and even if it existed I would reject it wholeheartedly.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 17, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> Autism Speaks can go fuck themselves with a rake and go bankrupt for all I care. They are for Autistic people like what PETA are for pets, essentially. They treat Autistic people like myself as if we are incapable of thinking let alone speak for ourselves. It's ran by a whole bunch of people with white knight syndrome, a superiority complex as well as a saviour complex. Have ta save all the poor, defenseless, inept and stupid Autistic people, yanno. Treat us like we're inferior and in need of protection like some child that is incapable of making decisions on their own.
> 
> Personally I don't want a "cure", and even if it existed I would reject it wholeheartedly.


Society treats us like that anyways so there’s not much difference between AS and other folks. I don’t care how “bad” the scientists are, if they make working cure, I’ll take it any day.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 17, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> ....It's ran by a whole bunch of people with white knight syndrome, a superiority complex as well as a saviour complex. Have ta save all the poor, defenseless, inept and stupid Autistic people, yanno. Treat us like we're inferior and in need of protection like some child that is incapable of making decisions on their own.
> 
> Personally I don't want a "cure", and even if it existed I would reject it wholeheartedly.


.....you make it sound like a cult, not gonna lie.  (Actually some of the reason why I'm acting soft on this, as my understanding of cult behavior is that screaming at them will HARDEN their stance.)  Since the only exposure I've knowingly had to these people is secondhand (and I am not comfortable even discussing ABA the things I've heard are THAT bad), I have to ask: didn't they have an autistic person on their board all of one time, that quit because they wouldn't listen to the fellow?

And as for the "cure" thing?  Pretty much the main reason I don't want one is because I've had the good fortune of being able to compensate for my issues - and I've already had to disregard society's conformity message ANYways to get to that point.  If I have to be an outcast?  So be it.  I don't see it at as an easy road to follow that's for sure.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 18, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Society treats us like that anyways so there’s not much difference between AS and other folks. I don’t care how “bad” the scientists are, if they make working cure, I’ll take it any day.


People are unique and different. Autism could be looked upon as showing that uniqueness in a more expressed manner. Neurodivergents have shown time and time again to be extremely beneficial if they can find their groove. I have no issues being different, but I am not interested in being treated differently based on this intrinsic characteristic that I can do nothing about. 

But once you find your groove? The one or few things that make you tick? You will over time flourish as an individual. 

Though @Abyssalrider in particular can answer more thoroughly than what I can on the subject of Autism Speaks. If he is around, that is. Damn Wisconsinites. Never around when you need them.. 



FrostyTheDragon said:


> .....you make it sound like a cult, not gonna lie.  (Actually some of the reason why I'm acting soft on this, as my understanding of cult behavior is that screaming at them will HARDEN their stance.)  Since the only exposure I've knowingly had to these people is secondhand (and I am not comfortable even discussing ABA the things I've heard are THAT bad), I have to ask: didn't they have an autistic person on their board all of one time, that quit because they wouldn't listen to the fellow?
> 
> And as for the "cure" thing?  Pretty much the main reason I don't want one is because I've had the good fortune of being able to compensate for my issues - and I've already had to disregard society's conformity message ANYways to get to that point.  If I have to be an outcast?  So be it.  I don't see it at as an easy road to follow that's for sure.


Not exactly a cult, but drew the closest comparison I could find. PETA is the closest. Autism Speaks are of the idea that there is something wrong with you for having Autism. If you swapped out Autistic with being gay people would be up in arms and rightly so. Sure you have problems on the social front obviously, but you are normal as far as an individual goes. 

As for the board member, I don't know. Don't know all the intrinsic details about Autism Speaks to care about them to that degree.

As for conformity, I'd say it's more about adapting to society the best you can as well as only as much as you need to. Doesn't take that much to adapt from my own experience, although you may need to sacrifice something in order to be "accepted" in a social setting/atmosphere, if you understand what I mean. The only real way for people, especially those with Autism, is through experiencing things first-hand, so you can get a feel for things with your own eyes and senses.

Once I found my groove some time ago things have never been easier. Talking with my coworkers have never been easier and more fun. And boy are some of them.. talkative, suffice to say.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 18, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> People are unique and different. Autism could be looked upon as showing that uniqueness in a more expressed manner. Neurodivergents have shown time and time again to be extremely beneficial if they can find their groove. I have no issues being different, but I am not interested in being treated differently based on this intrinsic characteristic that I can do nothing about.
> 
> But once you find your groove? The one or few things that make you tick? You will over time flourish as an individual.
> 
> ...


I wonder what are the odds of anybody in our spectrum actually manage to find their groove?


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## Yakamaru (Dec 18, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> I wonder what are the odds of anybody in our spectrum actually manage to find their groove?


High, if people just bother to go looking.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 18, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> High, if people just bother to go looking.


Aaaaand there's the issue, as I understand it - too many of us told for too long to not even look.

Unfortunately, with the way autistic people so often feel it more strongly, we get a heavier dose of this BS than general society does. And that's BEFORE the conformist bullying during our education.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 19, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> Aaaaand there's the issue, as I understand it - too many of us told for too long to not even look.
> 
> Unfortunately, with the way autistic people so often feel it more strongly, we get a heavier dose of this BS than general society does. And that's BEFORE the conformist bullying during our education.


If you don't go looking you won't find out to begin with. No point allowing other people to keep you down because they look upon you as inferior for having Autism.


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## Jwolfan (Dec 19, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yesterday I vented something regarding to autism, and today I had a thought pop up in my head and I now wonder approximately how many members in the fandom are autistic?
> 
> I certainly know that there are quite a number of them, but the question is how much? And what is the ratio between those with or without autism? One thing that I hope is that most people aren't autistic in this community, and this coming from someone who suffers from it as well.
> 
> What do you think?


Tbh I have mixed feelings about it. I have aspurger's and Its a struggle.


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 19, 2020)

Slap a misfit sharpie ALL OVER ME


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## Deleted member 134556 (Dec 19, 2020)

I spent almost my entire life not knowing I had autism. I found out shortly a year ago, and it's put everything I know about me into perspective, especially what my childhood was like.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 19, 2020)

Cockynoob666 said:


> Slap a misfit sharpie ALL OVER ME


This guy is fun. Can we keep the troll?


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 19, 2020)

I like my involvement but im not even a furry let alone want to be trolled


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 19, 2020)

Also i do have autism and is mentaly unstable


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 19, 2020)

And im only like 15,


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 19, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> High, if people just bother to go looking.


Is that an actual statistic though?


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## Yakamaru (Dec 19, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Is that an actual statistic though?


"Those who seek will find", as the saying goes. You won't find anything while sitting at home, mate. Taking action towards what you want is paramount, as you won't find or gain anything by being passive/idle. Go soul searching. Experiment. Find things, explore every nook and cranny. Start being proactive.

And yes, those who actually bother to take action can and will find their groove in time. Have met plenty of Autistic people who are active/proactive on finding out what they want in life, and I'd say about.. 3/5th so far have found their groove or the very least close-ish to it. The rest are improving at an incredible rate, just starting out or have too much self-doubt. But they'll hopefully get there at some point, hopefully.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 20, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> "Those who seek will find", as the saying goes. You won't find anything while sitting at home, mate. Taking action towards what you want is paramount, as you won't find or gain anything by being passive/idle. Go soul searching. Experiment. Find things, explore every nook and cranny. Start being proactive.
> 
> And yes, those who actually bother to take action can and will find their groove in time. Have met plenty of Autistic people who are active/proactive on finding out what they want in life, and I'd say about.. 3/5th so far have found their groove or the very least close-ish to it. The rest are improving at an incredible rate, just starting out or have too much self-doubt. But they'll hopefully get there at some point, hopefully.


I'd say it's more like 3/500 realistically speaking.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 20, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> I'd say it's more like 3/500 realistically speaking.


I said out of those that I've met. But if you prefer to sit on your ass all day and do nothing I won't stop you.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 20, 2020)

Alright, so sometime early next year I plan on putting together an "autism go bag" that I can carry with me and have ready in case I wind up with a sensory issue or rumination thought loop while out and about.  I could use some help.

Anyone copying the idea might want to keep in mind that a kit like this would have to be tailored for any given autistic person and the environment around them.  That being said, mine assumes no other major health concerns, assumes an adult that can feign functioning in society for brief periods, and doesn't run into the issue of very inconsiderate people.

Here's the planned kit so far:
-A plushie backpack (this is all going to need to get carried around, why not have the container itself be a sensory toy?)
-Clip-on sunglasses (I definitely have issues with lights being too bright, these can keep me going for longer)
-A blindfold (THIS is for a real sensory emergency, if I need light TOTALLY blocked while I recover.  This is one I'd remove if my environment had people who were far less considerate)
-Foldable earphones (I have some noise issues, especially when air circulation and fluorescent lights get involved, and these are generally sufficient)
-Earplugs (in case the situation calls for more concealable ear protection.  I don't wear these full-time because my touch issues include the ear canal)
-A chew stick (I used to chew on pens all the time in school and still have that jaw-grinding need, these are a safer alternative)
-A stress ball or grip exerciser (I tend to clench and unclench my hands a lot, this can provide at least a little resistance or sensory input so I'm not hurting myself that way)
-A fidget cube or controller, a stretchy tube, and a fidget spinner (no, seriously.  All of these follow the same logic of sensory regulation/certainty in different ways)
-A bracelet indicating autism issues and a watch with a heart rate monitor (these are for OTHERS' benefit more than mine - the bracelet indicating I have a diagnosed issue, the heart rate monitor so others can spot 'hey, MAYBE this guy is having a panic attack'.  I'm a large guy in all respects, I can easily see how a meltdown can swiftly become hazardous to everyone around me so ALERTING. OTHERS. IS. VITAL.)

Anything else I'm missing or could benefit from including in the kit?


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 20, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> I said out of those that I've met. But if you prefer to sit on your ass all day and do nothing I won't stop you.


Oh I see. But I doubt that it’ll make any difference imo. And I’m still under lockdown so I can’t go anywhere anyway.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 20, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> Alright, so sometime early next year I plan on putting together an "autism go bag" that I can carry with me and have ready in case I wind up with a sensory issue or rumination thought loop while out and about.  I could use some help.
> 
> Anyone copying the idea might want to keep in mind that a kit like this would have to be tailored for any given autistic person and the environment around them.  That being said, mine assumes no other major health concerns, assumes an adult that can feign functioning in society for brief periods, and doesn't run into the issue of very inconsiderate people.
> 
> ...


What about one of those boxer helmets in case you have episodes of self-injurious behavior?

Also you might wanna be careful about stress balls when flying cause when I passed through security the ball resembled a grenade and so I had to be stopped all the time lol.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 20, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> What about one of those boxer helmets in case you have episodes of self-injurious behavior?
> 
> Also you might wanna be careful about stress balls when flying cause when I passed through security the ball resembled a grenade and so I had to be stopped all the time lol.


The helmet.... is tempting and makes some sense, but the kinds of incidents where I'd exhibit behaviors where a helmet would work are EXCEEDINGLY rare.  I'd be better off using the plushie backpack as a cushion.

Besides, I tend to have more issues with hand pain or digging nails than anything cranium-related when it comes to painful behaviors.  And there's still some limit to the space in the backpack.


Though I did just remember one.  Writing pad and crayon or marker, or one of those cheap LED writing tablets, in case I wind up nonverbal.  I never learned sign language so if I'm still coherent and wind up mute, that may be my most clear method of communicating.  I pick crayon or marker for this if I use the writing pad because I specifically want it to be SOFT-TIPPED for safety reasons.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 20, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> The helmet.... is tempting and makes some sense, but the kinds of incidents where I'd exhibit behaviors where a helmet would work are EXCEEDINGLY rare.  I'd be better off using the plushie backpack as a cushion.
> 
> Besides, I tend to have more issues with hand pain or digging nails than anything cranium-related when it comes to painful behaviors.  And there's still some limit to the space in the backpack.
> 
> ...


I actually think that it’s better that you wear the Russian MASKA helmet like Tachanka’s. It will give you the best protection and make you look badass.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 20, 2020)

MCtheBeardie said:


> As an aspie myself, I’ve actually met quite a few people who also have autism in the fandom. Heck, I’ve at least got surface level interaction with half the people in this thread, and they’re coming out as autistic, it seems.
> 
> I don’t know the exact statistics, but based on my experience so far, that’s a pretty high ratio of people on the spectrum, vs neurotypical folks or otherwise.


That includes me lol.


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## MaetheDragon (Dec 20, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> That includes me lol.


Sure does, lol.


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## Lucyfur (Dec 20, 2020)

FrostyTheDragon said:


> The helmet.... is tempting and makes some sense, but the kinds of incidents where I'd exhibit behaviors where a helmet would work are EXCEEDINGLY rare.  I'd be better off using the plushie backpack as a cushion.
> 
> Besides, I tend to have more issues with hand pain or digging nails than anything cranium-related when it comes to painful behaviors.  And there's still some limit to the space in the backpack.
> 
> ...


Lol that was going to be my suggestion as someone who goes non verbal in some situations.


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## AceQuorthon (Dec 20, 2020)

I haven’t gotten diagnosed by a professional just yet, but several doctors have unrelated to eachother written down in their notes that I have ”traits in line with autism”. I am currently waiting for an appointment to get all that straightened out so we’ll see by then if I really do have it. 
Also, I may have ADHD according to the doctors so we’ll see about that one as well!


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## RileyTheOtter (Dec 23, 2020)

I wish more people knew about what Autism Speaks was really like and their level of hypocrisy. Every April I have to try not to laugh every time a cashier asks if I want to donate to them as part of my purchase. The only time I personally interacted with anyone affiliated with it, they treated me like a normal person until I pointed out I had autism. Then they ignored me completely and only talked to my mother (this was on a college campus, I was already a legal independent adult.) It is their belief that autism is a burden on the lives of everyone who comes near it. They believe anyone with autism isn't capable of knowing what they need or advocating for it _*because *_of their autism. Deciding that as a result, we must be sheltered and supervised, having every decision made for us because we aren't competent enough to do it ourselves. They're an absolute joke that defends parents who abandon their kids on the side of a road because “it's not their fault, the autism made them do it.” Nor do they believe a "cure" should be optional if developed, anyone and everyone would be required to have it if they had their way. I won't deny that most autists are worse off than us. The majority having low to moderate function, never able to have an independent life. If they want a cure, let them have it. But those of us who can make that decision ourselves should be given a choice. We can't predict how much of our personality is a direct result of how we autists think, and I would refuse such a cure on the basis that it would remove what makes me who I am. It would fundamentally alter our brain structure and how it processes information, changing who we are on such a level we may not ever fully understand how it affects us. But that's just my take on this, to each their own.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 23, 2020)

Abyssalrider said:


> I wish more people knew about what Autism Speaks was really like and their level of hypocrisy. Every April I have to try not to laugh every time a cashier asks if I want to donate to them as part of my purchase. The only time I personally interacted with anyone affiliated with it, they treated me like a normal person until I pointed out I had autism. Then they ignored me completely and only talked to my mother (this was on a college campus, I was already a legal independent adult.) It is their belief that autism is a burden on the lives of everyone who comes near it. They believe anyone with autism isn't capable of knowing what they need or advocating for it _*because *_of their autism. Deciding that as a result, we must be sheltered and supervised, having every decision made for us because we aren't competent enough to do it ourselves. They're an absolute joke that defends parents who abandon their kids on the side of a road because “it's not their fault, the autism made them do it.” Nor do they believe a "cure" should be optional if developed, anyone and everyone would be required to have it if they had their way. I won't deny that most autists are worse off than us. The majority having low to moderate function, never able to have an independent life. If they want a cure, let them have it. But those of us who can make that decision ourselves should be given a choice. We can't predict how much of our personality is a direct result of how we autists think, and I would refuse such a cure on the basis that it would remove what makes me who I am. It would fundamentally alter our brain structure and how it processes information, changing who we are on such a level we may not ever fully understand how it affects us. But that's just my take on this, to each their own.


I mean like I said before AS has the same views on us as society in general. So there isn’t much difference between them and the Average Joe. I’ve been bullied and discriminated without AS’ help. And and I don’t like the way that I am so I’d rather have it changed for the better than remain like this. I’ll take the risk if I have to.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 24, 2020)

Abyssalrider said:


> The only time I personally interacted with anyone affiliated with it, they treated me like a normal person until I pointed out I had autism. Then they ignored me completely and only talked to my mother (this was on a college campus, I was already a legal independent adult.)



Ouch.  Ouch ouch OUCH.  I almost feel like I'm going to have to train my family to insist these people direct the autism questions to me.  This is also why I'm now so insistent on telling my family how things really feel when I can pin them down.



Abyssalrider said:


> It is their belief that autism is a burden on the lives of everyone who comes near it. They believe anyone with autism isn't capable of knowing what they need or advocating for it _*because *_of their autism. Deciding that as a result, we must be sheltered and supervised, having every decision made for us because we aren't competent enough to do it ourselves.



Gonna tell you the same thing I told Yaka - your description makes AS sound like a cult to me.  When I think about what you describe here, it trips several of the "behavior control" red flags and at least two "emotional control" behaviors on a well-known control paradigm used to describe cults.  (I'd have to use details outside your description here to pin down the other two categories.)



Abyssalrider said:


> I won't deny that most autists are worse off than us. The majority having low to moderate function, never able to have an independent life. If they want a cure, let them have it. But those of us who can make that decision ourselves should be given a choice. We can't predict how much of our personality is a direct result of how we autists think, and I would refuse such a cure on the basis that it would remove what makes me who I am. It would fundamentally alter our brain structure and how it processes information, changing who we are on such a level we may not ever fully understand how it affects us. But that's just my take on this, to each their own.



Yeah, this sounds about right.



Parabellum3 said:


> I mean like I said before AS has the same views on us as society in general. So there isn’t much difference between them and the Average Joe. I’ve been bullied and discriminated without AS’ help.



Okay, I have to admit at this point that I feel like I've gotten a very sheltered experience of society because it's only ever been certain individuals who've done mean things to me.  That a number of them were in authority positions where they actually had the power to help me is KINDA why I've turned all screw-em-all, but rank-and-file people usually don't give me QUITE as much crap as the way you're describing the experience.


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## Meta_Tiara (Dec 26, 2020)

I’m on the spectrum, and living 29 years with it, I definitely wouldn’t take any “cures.” I don‘t hang around people who give me flak for it. I see people who would judge others for being autistic as jerks, and I’m not going to change myself for the sake of jerks.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 26, 2020)

Meta_Tiara said:


> I’m on the spectrum, and living 29 years with it, I definitely wouldn’t take any “cures.” I don‘t hang around people who give me flak for it. I see people who would judge others for being autistic as jerks, and I’m not going to change myself for the sake of jerks.


It’s not only about jerks. It’s also about improving how the brain functions such as faster processing, better recognition of social cues, and give better coping abilities with change among other things.


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## Monsieur Lune (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yesterday I vented something regarding to autism, and today I had a thought pop up in my head and I now wonder approximately how many members in the fandom are autistic?
> 
> I certainly know that there are quite a number of them, but the question is how much? And what is the ratio between those with or without autism? One thing that I hope is that most people aren't autistic in this community, and this coming from someone who suffers from it as well.
> 
> What do you think?





Filter said:


> It looks like the percentage may be higher than in the general population, but still quite low:
> sites.google.com: Anthrocon 2013 - Anthropomorphic Research Project
> 
> _"Perhaps most interesting, however, was the prevalence of Autism Spectrum Disorder (in particular, Asperger’s Syndrome, or high-functioning autism) within the furry fandom. *Approximately 4% of participants indicated that they had been diagnosed of Asperger’s Syndrome. *Given that estimates of the prevalence rate of Asperger’s Syndrome in the general population differ immensely, it is difficult to know exactly how much more prevalent this condition is in the furry fandom than the general population. However, the most conservative estimates suggest that, based on the obtained data, *furries are at least 2.25 times more likely to have Asperger’s Syndrome* than the general population, even after controlling for different sex ratios in the furry fandom. Additionally, there was a small, but significant positive relationship between the extent to which participants identified as being furry and having Asperger’s Syndrome (B = .083, p = .023)."_


Solid thought as much. New autist here time to raise the rate


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Another good reason for a cure would be that people will for once consider that you have met the requirements for you to be considered “normal” according to society’s definition. You’ll certainly be more respected and you won’t unintentionally creep people out.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Another good reason for a cure would be that people will for once consider that you have met the requirements for you to be considered “normal” according to society’s definition. You’ll certainly be more respected and you won’t unintentionally creep people out.


And what is "society" defined as? Your parents? Your friends?


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> And what is "society" defined as? Your parents? Your friends?


Basically anyone you interact with. Strangers, classmates, colleagues in my case have been a problem in the past and still is.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Basically anyone you interact with. Strangers, classmates, colleagues in my case have been a problem in the past and still is.


Aaaand they matter.. Why, exactly? 

Why are you chasing other people's expectations rather than setting your own?


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## Lucyfur (Dec 27, 2020)

I kinda get what you’re saying but like idk I find that it gives unique insight and outlooks being fringed of society due to not being able to follow socializing and social norms of others.

also tbh autism is what gave me before I eventually broke from lack of mental care for other things I have going on in my noggin a great boost in my job as an analyst in the navy since my hyperfixating and ability to store information after glancing at it once really made me a bit advantaged and to this day those skills help me with general life and passions I pursue and some side freelance work.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> Aaaand they matter.. Why, exactly?
> 
> Why are you chasing other people's expectations rather than setting your own?


We are social creatures you know? It’s hard to survive in this world by doing absolutely everything on your own. You need to collaborate with others and they need to collaborate with you in order to get somewhere in life (which is unfortunate imo). Otherwise you’ll just become nothing.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Lucyfur said:


> I kinda get what you’re saying but like idk I find that it gives unique insight and outlooks being fringed of society due to not being able to follow socializing and social norms of others.
> 
> also tbh autism is what gave me before I eventually broke from lack of mental care for other things I have going on in my noggin a great boost in my job as an analyst in the navy since my hyperfixating and ability to store information after glancing at it once really made me a bit advantaged and to this day those skills help me with general life and passions I pursue and some side freelance work.


It’s true that being on the spectrum can give you some advantages (though it’s random) however the usefulness of these advantages won’t last long and aren’t the usual basic necessities of having a successful life, socially and/or physically.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> We are social creatures you know? It’s hard to survive in this world by doing absolutely everything on your own. You need to collaborate with others and they need to collaborate with you in order to get somewhere in life (which is unfortunate imo). Otherwise you’ll just become nothing.


Chasing terms/boundaries and expectations that someone else have of you will end up in a never-ending circle. Not letting someone else set the terms of your person is paramount if you ever want to reach even a modicum of happiness. Just because we're a social species doesn't mean one should chase after someone else's expectations/terms. Happiness isn't really achieved through trying to appease others.

Rule number 1: You can't please everyone, and it's futile to even try in the first place.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> Chasing terms/boundaries and expectations that someone else have of you will end up in a never-ending circle. Not letting someone else set the terms of your person is paramount if you ever want to reach even a modicum of happiness. Just because we're a social species doesn't mean one should chase after someone else's expectations/terms. Happiness isn't really achieved through trying to appease others.
> 
> Rule number 1: You can't please everyone, and it's futile to even try in the first place.


Indeed you can’t, however having a disorder that impairs your social skills or intelligence will certainly make it a lot harder to please people in general. Even those who are “open and are positive.”


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## Lucyfur (Dec 27, 2020)

Tbh I’m like idk scared of terms like cure when it is something that isn’t really curable like sure we can teach certain skills to make socializing more easy and smooth but a cure just it scares me because like... 
it’s not something that is broken in me that needs fixing like I don’t feel inherently wrong because of my autism sure I may feel wrong socially but that’s not my autism doing that it is imposed social bs.

I say this from the frame of I do have things that make me feel or have made me feel inherently wrong that I have been feeling less wrong about as I’ve gotten treatment for them.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Indeed you can’t, however having a disorder that impairs your social skills or intelligence will certainly make it a lot harder to please people in general. Even those who are “open and are positive.”


That's the problem right there. You are going around trying to please people. Just.. Stop. It's one of the factors that are causing so many problems in the first place. Yes having Autism will provide challenges with your social skills, and the bigger the challenge the harder they are to overcome. But that doesn't mean you should go chasing after something of which you will never be able to achieve in the first place.

Learning to adapt to society enough doesn't mean you have to sacrifice who you are. If you are that dissatisfied with who you are then embrace change. For that to be a possibility to occur you need introspection/self-reflection. 

Even more importantly, start taking action. If I didn't take action the way I did I'd be stuck in a never-ending cycle of misery.


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## KD142000 (Dec 27, 2020)

I'm not sure whether it's possible to cure it or not. Do we need/should we cure it is another matter that's up for debate.

I'm of the belief there's no such thing as 'normal' cos humans are weird even if they are considered normal. Even if you removed autism from the equation entirely, you can still have issues communicating from trauma or just a lack of social interaction from a young age.

I'm not sure what's in my head or if I'm on the spectrum. If I was, I wouldn't be surprised. But I don't look for answers there, mostly because I've accepted that I had a shit time of it for one reason or another. To me, doesn't really matter what the reason was. It just sucked and can't be undone. It's up to me to grow as a person, get help if I need it and stop worrying about fitting into a normal that doesn't exist.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Lucyfur said:


> Tbh I’m like idk scared of terms like cure when it is something that isn’t really curable like sure we can teach certain skills to make socializing more easy and smooth but a cure just it scares me because like...
> it’s not something that is broken in me that needs fixing like I don’t feel inherently wrong because of my autism sure I may feel wrong socially but that’s not my autism doing that it is imposed social bs.
> 
> I say this from the frame of I do have things that make me feel or have made me feel inherently wrong that I have been feeling less wrong about as I’ve gotten treatment for them.


Been to like 3 different social groups and nothing changed for me. And if someone were to call for volunteers for like a beta testing of a cure, I’d sign up first. Heck I may become the first man in history to be cured lol (assuming everything goes well of course).



Yakamaru said:


> That's the problem right there. You are going around trying to please people. Just.. Stop. It's one of the factors that are causing so many problems in the first place. Yes having Autism will provide challenges with your social skills, and the bigger the challenge the harder they are to overcome. But that doesn't mean you should go chasing after something of which you will never be able to achieve in the first place.
> 
> Learning to adapt to society enough doesn't mean you have to sacrifice who you are. If you are that dissatisfied with who you are then embrace change. For that to be a possibility to occur you need introspection/self-reflection.
> 
> Even more importantly, start taking action. If I didn't take action the way I did I'd be stuck in a never-ending cycle of misery.


That’s another roadblock from Autism, change. It’s hard for me to break out of my routine mainly out of fear or god knows what else is in my head.  That is who I am, and I don’t like it. And so far the most effective way for me to change is from external influence. A notable example being a friend who introduced me to the fandom, no way in hell to would be here if it weren’t for them. Same goes for a cure...




KD142000 said:


> I'm not sure whether it's possible to cure it or not. Do we need/should we cure it is another matter that's up for debate.
> 
> I'm of the belief there's no such thing as 'normal' cos humans are weird even if they are considered normal. Even if you removed autism from the equation entirely, you can still have issues communicating from trauma or just a lack of social interaction from a young age.
> 
> I'm not sure what's in my head or if I'm on the spectrum. If I was, I wouldn't be surprised. But I don't look for answers there, mostly because I've accepted that I had a shit time of it for one reason or another. To me, doesn't really matter what the reason was. It just sucked and can't be undone. It's up to me to grow as a person, get help if I need it and stop worrying about fitting into a normal that doesn't exist.


It’s true that there is no absolute definition of “normal” when it comes to people. But I’d least wish to not be labeled as “sick”, “weird”, “psychopath”, “creepy”, etc anymore.


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## KD142000 (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> It’s true that there is no absolute definition of “normal” when it comes to people. But I’d least wish to not be labeled as “sick”, “weird”, “psychopath”, “creepy”, etc anymore.


If you're not any of those things, I don't see any reason why their opinion should matter. If someone came at me with those accusations, all I'd think is how wrong they are and how they aren't worth my time.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 27, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> It’s true that there is no absolute definition of “normal” when it comes to people. But I’d least wish to not be labeled as “sick”, “weird”, “psychopath”, “creepy”, etc anymore.


And these people should be ignored and cut out of your life if they intend on keeping you down. You're being pushed around by people who seek to control you let alone try and manipulate you through those words.

Better to not get affected by words and steer your own ship in a direction that you are happy with.


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## Liseran Thistle (Dec 27, 2020)

(i wanna say somethin cause I have autism lol)

Autism isn't something that needs to be "cured" because pointedly there's nothing really "wrong" with people who have autism. They just have a tougher way of understanding other people socially to varying levels, and most of society caters to Allistic people rather than Autistic people. Like the school system, workplace environments, etc. 

Autistic people can certainly live and thrive in an allistic world, and they shouldn't be "cured" of their disability mainly because the reasons their condition is even considered a disability is because of the things people who don't have autism haven't done. 

The world has advanced without any consideration for our needs, and so some of us are "disabled" even though it's not really our fault. Imagine for a second that randomly one day, everyone but you had the ability to fly. You get a little sad by the thought you can't fly, but nothing really changes in your life, so you go about your day as a flightless person. However, soon you notice that they start to add buildings and structures that only people who can fly can get to or reach.

You need to get to school, but you can't because there are no stairs, and the door is 50ft in the air. You are now technically disabled because you can't do something that everyone else can, and it's by no consequence of your own, the world around you has just not taken into consideration people *like* you. 

I see it that way, as in the world hasn't really thought about how an autistic person like me could do well in school, or loud places, or a work environment. And it's not just autistic people who have to sort of deal with this, people with all kinds of disabilities. 

Blind people, people in wheelchairs, Deaf people, etc all are disabled but really only because there aren't a lot of things available to help them do things a non-disabled person could do. There aren't a lot of interpreters for deaf people or words on a prompter in places for them to read along. Some places don't have braille on their signs to help the blind find where they need to go. There might not be a ramp for a person in a wheelchair to get to a certain place, etc. 

And while these are all disabilities that can technically be cured, autism is a different case because it's not really a physical disability it's one that's in the brain. It's something that can easily be helped and fixed, or "cured" if the world around us just changed in slightly different ways to accommodate for people who have it. The only real way to 'treat" autism is to make changes around the person who has it, not to the person themself. 

The *real* issue with autism isn't autistic people, it's people not wanting to change a few things *for* autistic people, and refusing to make accommodations for them because they think we're odd or strange, or "dumb". That is what we call "ableism", and it's very toxic and awful. It's the reason some people don't tell others they're autistic for fear people might judge them, and it's also the reason some autistic people feel they need a "cure" for their condition. Because they don't fit in, and some parts of society are refusing to make accommodations.


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## contemplationistwolf (Dec 28, 2020)

I've been diagnosed with Asperger's myself, and life with it has definitely not been easy ...
They say "you should just be yourself", but it's kinda hard to do that when you always get punished for it, and since an early age. I come from a very competitive and judgemental (and also homophobic) environment, one where I constantly got compared to others, where I had to "be normal, do this, achieve that", one that had no understanding of what Asperger's/Autism is and had no positive regard for such differences. I never fit in anywhere despite trying, so my youth was constant ostracization and conflicts even with a lot of self-inhibition. Conflicts I could handle though; what felt much worse was the persistent isolation: the feeling that there's no place for me, that no-one understands me or is on my side.

Because my social experiences had such a lack of positivity, I became very avoidant over time, and it's been taking a lot of effort to break out of that. I've spent my whole life repressing myself, accommodating others, and trying to live up to high expectations with no support and a lot of mental baggage to deal with. It did lead to me losing touch with myself, and I've been spending the last year working to fix that.

Ugh ... this dourness and self-pity is kinda annoying to re-read, but suppose I already wrote it, and might be useful to share the experiences regardless.

I've made good progress fixing the effects my youth had. I understand myself better now, am less avoidant and have friends with whom I have things in common. I'm really good at mathematics and I managed to turn that to my advantage, thus I ended up doing outwardly fairly well despite no support and a lot of internal baggage. Despite the challenges I faced, I'm proud of who I am and wouldn't want to be anyone else.

This world is not a fair place and it never will be. Some have to work extra hard to get what others simply get handed to them. Occasional self-pity and whining can be cathartic I guess, but remember that the world doesn't give a shit. You can either keep whining or rise up to the challenge, and the second choice is frankly the only productive one.

Perhaps all this extra work to get what others take for granted will help build character. Perhaps this extra thought that it requires to fit in will let you see what the world is truly like and help build greater wisdom. Perhaps all these challenges will make you a stronger person, and once you catch up to others, you'll keep on racing right past them.


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 28, 2020)

oh I tried, but it ALWAYS FUCKING FAILS, LIKE COME ON, I LITERALY HAVE TO GO OUT OF MY WAY FOR THE SLIGHTEST TINYEST CHANCE THAT IT WILL GO WELL, IT DOESNT, ONE TIME ONLY IT WORKS, YEAH ITS 1 % FULL BUT ITS JUST 1 PERCENT! SO WHY BOTHER. AT THAT POINT YOU MAY KNOW THAT THE WORLD THINKS YOUR USELESS A WASTE SO JUST END YOUR SUFFERING BY DYING


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## Deleted member 127940 (Dec 28, 2020)

Cockynoob666 said:


> oh I tried, but it ALWAYS FUCKING FAILS, LIKE COME ON, I LITERALY HAVE TO GO OUT OF MY WAY FOR THE SLIGHTEST TINYEST CHANCE THAT IT WILL GO WELL, IT DOESNT, ONE TIME ONLY IT WORKS, YEAH ITS 1 % FULL BUT ITS JUST 1 PERCENT! SO WHY BOTHER. AT THAT POINT YOU MAY KNOW THAT THE WORLD THINKS YOUR USELESS A WASTE SO JUST END YOUR SUFFERING BY DYING



Only certain people will get it.


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## Guifrog (Dec 28, 2020)

I would just like to add, not every autistic person is the same, and not everybody has specific talents, so we should be careful to considerate the story of each individual

That said, one of my aspie friends has found his groove through performing arts. One would probably think this is incompatible with the common sense about the matter, but he managed to gain confidence through something that encourages self-expression and a group of people who deeply care for him


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## Yakamaru (Dec 28, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> I've been diagnosed with Asperger's myself, and life with it has definitely not been easy ...
> They say "you should just be yourself", but it's kinda hard to do that when you always get punished for it, and since an early age. I come from a very competitive and judgemental (and also homophobic) environment, one where I constantly got compared to others, where I had to "be normal, do this, achieve that", one that had no understanding of what Asperger's/Autism is and had no positive regard for such differences. I never fit in anywhere despite trying, so my youth was constant ostracization and conflicts even with a lot of self-inhibition. Conflicts I could handle though; what felt much worse was the persistent isolation: the feeling that there's no place for me, that no-one understands me or is on my side.
> 
> Because my social experiences had such a lack of positivity, I became very avoidant over time, and it's been taking a lot of effort to break out of that. I've spent my whole life repressing myself, accommodating others, and trying to live up to high expectations with no support and a lot of mental baggage to deal with. It did lead to me losing touch with myself, and I've been spending the last year working to fix that.
> ...


*hugs*


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liseran Thistle said:


> (i wanna say somethin cause I have autism lol)
> 
> Autism isn't something that needs to be "cured" because pointedly there's nothing really "wrong" with people who have autism. They just have a tougher way of understanding other people socially to varying levels, and most of society caters to Allistic people rather than Autistic people. Like the school system, workplace environments, etc.
> 
> ...


Ironically, some call me an ablest just because I look at the reality of things in our circumstances.  


contemplationistwolf said:


> I've been diagnosed with Asperger's myself, and life with it has definitely not been easy ...
> They say "you should just be yourself", but it's kinda hard to do that when you always get punished for it, and since an early age. I come from a very competitive and judgemental (and also homophobic) environment, one where I constantly got compared to others, where I had to "be normal, do this, achieve that", one that had no understanding of what Asperger's/Autism is and had no positive regard for such differences. I never fit in anywhere despite trying, so my youth was constant ostracization and conflicts even with a lot of self-inhibition. Conflicts I could handle though; what felt much worse was the persistent isolation: the feeling that there's no place for me, that no-one understands me or is on my side.
> 
> Because my social experiences had such a lack of positivity, I became very avoidant over time, and it's been taking a lot of effort to break out of that. I've spent my whole life repressing myself, accommodating others, and trying to live up to high expectations with no support and a lot of mental baggage to deal with. It did lead to me losing touch with myself, and I've been spending the last year working to fix that.
> ...


I kinda was the same, except in my case I used to be very social in person but now it's the other way around, though when this Covid mess is over I'll try to interact with people in person. However, a cure will still be a helpful assist nevertheless, assuming it will work...


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 29, 2020)

Liseran Thistle said:


> The *real* issue with autism isn't autistic people, it's people not wanting to change a few things *for* autistic people, and refusing to make accommodations for them because they think we're odd or strange, or "dumb". That is what we call "ableism", and it's very toxic and awful. It's the reason some people don't tell others they're autistic for fear people might judge them, and it's also the reason some autistic people feel they need a "cure" for their condition. Because they don't fit in, and some parts of society are refusing to make accommodations.


Ableism, huh?  I'll just put this on the table that I was quite an athlete growing up and given the competitive nature of the sports I was in, I can almost guarantee I wound up with a little ableism of my own just from that.  I've never seen anyone use the phrase in-person though.

While I'd never actually use the term myself because it feels hollow (I would rather spell out what's wrong and have what's wrong spelled out to me - even if I can't take it the first time I'm called out.  Change takes time), the tendency of my brain to take phrases literally winds up making other disadvantaged groups' activism look ableist to me.  That, oversensitive hearing, rumination issues (uh, that's basically a mental feedback loop of repeating the situation in my head over and over until I snap), and knowing how ordinary people treat a total meltdown kind of pit me against a lot of the activist culture in general.  So often I see efforts to tie their problems to mine (I think the term is "intersectionality") and yet no one considers what the consequences of one of my missteps will have for them in return.


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## Liseran Thistle (Dec 29, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Ironically, some call me an ablest just because I look at the reality of things in our circumstances.
> 
> I kinda was the same, except in my case I used to be very social in person but now it's the other way around, though when this Covid mess is over I'll try to interact with people in person. However, a cure will still be a helpful assist nevertheless, assuming it will work...





Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Ableism, huh?  I'll just put this on the table that I was quite an athlete growing up and given the competitive nature of the sports I was in, I can almost guarantee I wound up with a little ableism of my own just from that.  I've never seen anyone use the phrase in-person though.
> 
> While I'd never actually use the term myself because it feels hollow (I would rather spell out what's wrong and have what's wrong spelled out to me - even if I can't take it the first time I'm called out.  Change takes time), the tendency of my brain to take phrases literally winds up making other disadvantaged groups' activism look ableist to me.  That, oversensitive hearing, rumination issues (uh, that's basically a mental feedback loop of repeating the situation in my head over and over until I snap), and knowing how ordinary people treat a total meltdown kind of pit me against a lot of the activist culture in general.  So often I see efforts to tie their problems to mine (I think the term is "intersectionality") and yet no one considers what the consequences of one of my missteps will have for them in return.



I kind of feel like people just sort of ignored everything I said and centered around the word "ableist".


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 29, 2020)

Liseran Thistle said:


> I kind of feel like people just sort of ignored everything I said and centered around the word "ableist".


Hard to say.  I refuse to believe disabled people can't be ableist towards each other and that's kind of what led to my side rant.

I think the issue with me reading what you said is... aside from using the "everyone else is flying" analogy, everything winds up a repeat of things I've already known or seen.  I've run into the "it's not a physical disability" problem when trying to get assistance once because I "didn't look autistic", I've actually had to help a blind student because their college's web system doesn't cater well to blind people, I even helped build a ramp once because I had guests in wheelchairs (and it takes TONS of space to make a ramp that meets regulations - 12 feet per 1 foot of elevation).  Heck, even that "ableism" diversion I just made is an example of how the world doesn't see things the way I do.  I've seen too much, firsthand, of how the world isn't designed around people who don't perfectly fit a norm and I'm technically one of the luckier ones.

And few people with the condition have access to the ladders needed.  (With the sizes you cite I refer to "ladders" rather than your mentions of stairs because ladders take up less space and some can even be moved pretty well - my understanding is *we're not asking for much*.) I spent years in misery because it felt like the ladders got yanked out from under me, whereas a lot of people DON'T HAVE THEM AT ALL.

"Golden rule" isn't exactly perfect for dealing with others all the time, but I figured I'd at least attempt to be clear with you because I get frustrated when I get blown by like this as well.  That said, my answer is limited by some of my issues with literal meaning so feel free to ask anything else.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 29, 2020)

Liseran Thistle said:


> The *real* issue with autism isn't autistic people, it's people not wanting to change a few things *for* autistic people, and refusing to make accommodations for them because they think we're odd or strange, or "dumb". That is what we call "ableism", and it's very toxic and awful. It's the reason some people don't tell others they're autistic for fear people might judge them, and it's also the reason some autistic people feel they need a "cure" for their condition. Because they don't fit in, and some parts of society are refusing to make accommodations.


We are a minority. We are outside of the norm due to having Autism. Society is under no obligation to cater to nor accommodate to our needs, because said needs may require people to go out of their way to accommodate us. Believing society or for that matter specific people are under any obligation to cater to or accommodate you is self-entitlement/narcissism. Not to mention people come off as wanting to be treated differently/in a special manner doesn't help you nor others either for that matter. You adapt to society, not the other way around. The more adapted you are the better. Refusal on your part to adapt even partially is not going to get you anywhere, as people have no obligations whatsoever over you just because you exist. In that case you end up creating your own problems out of a sheer refusal to adapt even partially to how society operates.

I am against throwing "-ists" and "-isms" around because it does nothing to help the conversation move along, the same way I am against using characteristics/intrinsic characteristics like for instance Autism in this case to be used as a crutch to avoid everything from criticism to self-reflection and taking control over the circumstances of one's own existence.


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## Lucyfur (Dec 29, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> We are a minority. We are outside of the norm due to having Autism. Society is under no obligation to cater to nor accommodate to our needs, because said needs may require people to go out of their way to accommodate us. Believing society or for that matter specific people are under any obligation to cater to or accommodate you is self-entitlement/narcissism. Not to mention people come off as wanting to be treated differently/in a special manner doesn't help you nor others either for that matter. You adapt to society, not the other way around. The more adapted you are the better. Refusal on your part to adapt even partially is not going to get you anywhere, as people have no obligations whatsoever over you just because you exist. In that case you end up creating your own problems out of a sheer refusal to adapt even partially to how society operates.
> 
> I am against throwing "-ists" and "-isms" around because it does nothing to help the conversation move along, the same way I am against using characteristics/intrinsic characteristics like for instance Autism in this case to be used as a crutch to avoid everything from criticism to self-reflection and taking control over the circumstances of one's own existence.


why not though? I ask this honestly from the perspective of how we do such things, and I agree with doing these things very much so myself, in building regulations and such to make them accessible for those who for instance require aids like wheelchairs. 
Why not accommodate the needs of others especially since it is due to no fault of their own.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 29, 2020)

Lucyfur said:


> why not though? I ask this honestly from the perspective of how we do such things, and I agree with doing these things very much so myself, in building regulations and such to make them accessible for those who for instance require aids like wheelchairs.
> Why not accommodate the needs of others especially since it is due to no fault of their own.


Notice how I quoted the part that was specific for Autism. Those who are physically handicapped is not part of the discussion and is not something of which I was addressing.


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## Lucyfur (Dec 29, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> Notice how I quoted the part that was specific for Autism. Those who are physically handicapped is not part of the discussion and is not something of which I was addressing.


there are parallels, and the point is we are able to accommodate so why would we why stop at the physical barrier?
Also as a side not autism can cause physical affects too.


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## ConorHyena (Dec 29, 2020)

Lucyfur said:


> there are parallels, and the point is we are able to accommodate so why wouldn't we why stop at the physical barrier?
> Also as a side not autism can cause physical affects too.


I was under the impression both physical and mental impairments are similar in their impact on a person's life, and therefor equal in that aspect.


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## Lucyfur (Dec 29, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> I was under the impression both physical and mental impairments are similar in their impact on a person's life, and therefor equal in that aspect.


woops typo there meant to say why would we stop at the physical barrier.


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## Yakamaru (Dec 29, 2020)

Lucyfur said:


> there are parallels, and the point is we are able to accommodate so why wouldn't we why stop at the physical barrier?
> Also as a side not autism can cause physical affects too.


Being physically disabled to the point of having to use a wheelchair is not comparable to that of having Autism. One is physical in nature, the other primarily a psychological characteristic. One makes you literally incapable of moving around most of the time, the other pretty much makes your brain function differently.

So no, there are not parallels. Similarities in some aspects, but not parallels. Being physically disabled to the point of having to move around in a wheelchair is not the same as having Autism, as Autism doesn't prevent you from moving about nor be able to find a job and live a healthy as possible life. I am not interested in using umbrella terms/definitions nor be treated as if I am disabled, because I am not.


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## Liseran Thistle (Dec 29, 2020)

This attitude that autistic people just have to learn to cope and deal with having no accommodations for them because it makes allistic people more comfortable, or that they aren't "owed" anything to make *them* more comfortable because they're a minority and not "the norm" is directly rooted in ableism, and regardless of whether or not people want to finally realize that saying things like this harmful and a direct result of non-disabled people belittling and disregarding the needs of people different than them, it is a real thing that happens in people's lives and it is normalized. 

I'm very tired of this whole "i don't believe in -ism's" bull just because it doesn't change the fact that it exists and is continuously perpetuated in society. The fact that some of you have pointed to the way other people have treated you in response to your autism is direct proof that these "ism's" you callously decided to pretend don't exist *do exist*. You can't dismiss the way people mistreat others with disabilities just because you think it's "weird" to give the way they mistreat you a "name" (which is even more ridiculous than saying it's not real when you see others talking about how people have mistreated them because of their condition)

Furthermore, asking allistic people to make slight changes in their lives to help make other people more comfortable is in no way absolving autistic people of responsibility for their condition completely. It is not "coddling" an autistic person when you lower the volume of your music that's too loud, or you turn the lights in a room down low because they're too bright. 

People don't want to admit that something like ableism exists because they partake in it, and it affects them to such a degree that they feel they have to "cure" themselves of their disability just to be able to fit in with people who see them as an inconvenience. 

I ask the ones here talking about a cure this: If society doesn't want to make slight changes and accommodations for autistic people, because they don't believe people with that condition are owed or even need such changes, what makes you think they care enough to "cure" you? 

If you can't even get someone to make slight changes in the way they do things to make you more comfortable, you certainly can't expect them to want to "cure" you either. 


Yakamaru said:


> We are a minority. We are outside of the norm due to having Autism. Society is under no obligation to cater to nor accommodate to our needs, because said needs may require people to go out of their way to accommodate us. Believing society or for that matter specific people are under any obligation to cater to or accommodate you is self-entitlement/narcissism. Not to mention people come off as wanting to be treated differently/in a special manner doesn't help you nor others either for that matter. You adapt to society, not the other way around. The more adapted you are the better. Refusal on your part to adapt even partially is not going to get you anywhere, as people have no obligations whatsoever over you just because you exist. In that case you end up creating your own problems out of a sheer refusal to adapt even partially to how society operates.
> 
> I am against throwing "-ists" and "-isms" around because it does nothing to help the conversation move along, the same way I am against using characteristics/intrinsic characteristics like for instance Autism in this case to be used as a crutch to avoid everything from criticism to self-reflection and taking control over the circumstances of one's own existence.


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## Lucyfur (Dec 29, 2020)

Yakamaru said:


> Being physically disabled to the point of having to use a wheelchair is not comparable to that of having Autism. One is physical in nature, the other primarily a psychological characteristic. One makes you literally incapable of moving around most of the time, the other pretty much makes your brain function differently.
> 
> So no, there are not parallels. Similarities in some aspects, but not parallels. Being physically disabled to the point of having to move around in a wheelchair is not the same as having Autism, as Autism doesn't prevent you from moving about nor be able to find a job and live a healthy as possible life. I am not interested in using umbrella terms/definitions nor be treated as if I am disabled, because I am not.


cool some autistic people don't necessarily have issues finding jobs, others do though.
some do suffer certain physical challenges like those related to issues with sleep due to their autism which would be a physical impact too.
but yeah depending on how one may be impacted the results and their interactions in life with others may vary , so you may not want to use your own expericne as anecdotal evidence of if you can than they can too, because it doesnt always play out that way.



			https://drexel.edu/~/media/Files/autismoutcomes/publications/LCO%20Fact%20Sheet%20Employment.ashx


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 29, 2020)

Liseran Thistle said:


> This attitude that autistic people just have to learn to cope and deal with having no accommodations for them because it makes allistic people more comfortable, or that they aren't "owed" anything to make *them* more comfortable because they're a minority and not "the norm" is directly rooted in ableism, and regardless of whether or not people want to finally realize that saying things like this harmful and a direct result of non-disabled people belittling and disregarding the needs of people different than them, it is a real thing that happens in people's lives and it is normalized.
> 
> I'm very tired of this whole "i don't believe in -ism's" bull just because it doesn't change the fact that it exists and is continuously perpetuated in society. The fact that some of you have pointed to the way other people have treated you in response to your autism is direct proof that these "ism's" you callously decided to pretend don't exist *do exist*. You can't dismiss the way people mistreat others with disabilities just because you think it's "weird" to give the way they mistreat you a "name" (which is even more ridiculous than saying it's not real when you see others talking about how people have mistreated them because of their condition)
> 
> ...


Doesn't a cure count as an _accommodation_?


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## Yakamaru (Dec 29, 2020)

Liseran Thistle said:


> This attitude that autistic people just have to learn to cope and deal with having no accommodations for them because it makes allistic people more comfortable, or that they aren't "owed" anything to make *them* more comfortable because they're a minority and not "the norm" is directly rooted in ableism, and regardless of whether or not people want to finally realize that saying things like this harmful and a direct result of non-disabled people belittling and disregarding the needs of people different than them, it is a real thing that happens in people's lives and it is normalized.
> 
> I'm very tired of this whole "i don't believe in -ism's" bull just because it doesn't change the fact that it exists and is continuously perpetuated in society. The fact that some of you have pointed to the way other people have treated you in response to your autism is direct proof that these "ism's" you callously decided to pretend don't exist *do exist*. You can't dismiss the way people mistreat others with disabilities just because you think it's "weird" to give the way they mistreat you a "name" (which is even more ridiculous than saying it's not real when you see others talking about how people have mistreated them because of their condition)
> 
> ...


I am not owed anything on the mere premise of existing. Believing otherwise is egotistical/narcissistic, and I refuse to think of myself as special because I am not. 

The same way I am against a "cure", I am against special privileges/accommodations on the mere basis of having Autism. I do not find it to my liking of being treated differently on the mere basis of having Autism the same way I am against using said Autism as a crutch.



Lucyfur said:


> cool some autistic people don't necessarily have issues finding jobs, others do though.
> some do suffer certain physical challenges like those related to issues with sleep due to their autism which would be a physical impact too.
> but yeah depending on how one may be impacted the results and their interactions in life with others may vary , so you may not want to use your own expericne as anecdotal evidence of if you can than they can too, because it doesnt always play out that way.
> 
> ...


A physical disability IS going to give you issues. Autism CAN give you issues, which is the difference. A lot of people with Autism are fully capable of functioning more or less in a normal fashion in society despite the limitations their Autism give them. They at the very least try to adapt.


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## Deleted member 127940 (Dec 29, 2020)

Parabellum3 said:


> Doesn't a cure count as an _accommodation_?



This question right here sort of highlights a piece of clarification that's sorely missing from this entire discussion: what sort of accommodations should society make for autistic people?


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## Punji (Dec 29, 2020)

As someone with a physical disability, I don't think society should be expected to accommodate others. While obviously it's nice, expecting other people to make sacrifices or otherwise inconvenience themselves just isn't very reasonable.

Take for instance handicap parking. I love it, because it seriously cuts out a lot of pain for me in everyday life. It negatively impacts all the people who can't park there because they're almost always the closest spots and it lowers the overall parking available to everyone else. But in most instances, the loss is very minor compared to how much of a difference it can make for the disabled. In the past, I went from walking across a parking lot for five minutes to a C-train platform and vomiting from the pain when I got there to parking most of the way to the platform. This inherently means some people just don't get parking spots anymore, about maybe 40 less cars can park there without a permit. It means more people can actually make the physical walk to the trains every day though. On the trains there's special seating for the disabled, though most people ignore that and sit there anyway. Respecting the seats means less healthy people can sit down. Some days I just couldn't stand the whole time and needed to sit down on those seats, or just on the floor. And when I got to my station, I couldn't go up the stairs in one go. If the escalator was out, which happened a lot, I'd ride the elevator up to the top. Having the elevator there means the staircase was to be much narrower, so it was more crowded for everyone else.

These accommodations required small sacrifices from everyone else who didn't need them or couldn't legally use them, but the difference it made heavily favoured the people who need them. But on the same coin, I didn't ask for the parking spots or seats or the elevator. I've walked the blocks to the station same as everyone else and I've stood for the full 45 minute train ride, and I've walked up the stairs so people wouldn't stare at me. Does this make some sense to anyone?

We could all survive without them, or simply find other ways to adapt. I appreciate all the various small accommodations there are for people with disabilities, but I don't expect them. For every time a parking spot made life easier there's another ten times where I struggled silently in a public space. We simply can't expect every public location to make sacrifices for every potential problem, when it almost always comes at a cost of others.

No one wants to be disabled in any way, I sure as Hell wish I wasn't, but it's wrong for us to demand the vast majority of others to adapt to our own needs rather than accept we have some limitations and can't get absolutely everything out of life as easily as anyone else.


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## Cockynoob666 (Dec 29, 2020)

ASTA said:


> Only certain people will get it.


oh I have autism, I know how it feels


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## contemplationistwolf (Dec 29, 2020)

I personally don't consider my Asperger's to even be a disability, just a difference, though the kind that makes it difficult to fit in with neurotypicals. I don't feel inferior in any way. Fretting about "societal injustices" is something I used to do a lot, but something I got over as I realized that it's an unhealthy waste of time, especially when you are too inexperienced to understand how society really works and too powerless to make any difference. Society is the way it is, and all I can do is account for it. I most likely won't be the one to benefit from whatever societal improvements happen, as by that point I'll already have adapted.

Thinking of accommodations, what would have been nice in my youth is a chance to talk to others on the spectrum, especially older ones who had successfully adapted to living with it. As it was, my parents didn't really understand it, my school didn't understand it, society as a whole didn't understand it (awareness of this was very low in my country back then), and I myself didn't understand it. Things just kept going to shit and no-one understood how to deal with it right. Proper mentoring would have allowed me to understand what was really going on, what others were really thinking, and how I could have properly resolved the problems that arose. The fact that awareness of the spectrum is rising and that those on the spectrum themselves are increasingly talking about it is IMO a really good thing.

What I don't care about at all is demanding neurotypicals to become some sort of "autism experts" who have to perfectly cater and be sensitive to us. I don't believe such efforts would be productive ... and from what I've seen in recent times, I wouldn't trust the people behind such efforts to run them properly, and perhaps even honestly. There's a fine line between supporting growth and accommodating failure; I support the former and oppose the latter. The vast majority of neurotypicals don't actually have any malicious intent towards those on the spectrum, so smooth coexistence and cooperation are perfectly possible. The difference in brain operation is not insurmountable (in fact, I suspect it doesn't even have to be difficult).
I think it's on us to understand how our neurological divergence works and how it relates to society, and that it's on us to stand up for ourselves and find the right place in society. This is what I will be doing, rather than fretting over neurotypicals not being instantly sensitive or accommodating to me.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Dec 29, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Fretting about "societal injustices" is something I used to do a lot, but something I got over as I realized that it's an unhealthy waste of time, especially when you are too inexperienced to understand how society really works and too powerless to make any difference.


Honestly, that's the lesson I learned over the last two years.  There is simply WAY TOO MUCH for me to comprehend and further attempts have actually been the prime cause of meltdowns.  The catch now is PURGING some of the pent-up rage I've had as a direct result without actually hurting anyone.

I've gotten to the point where if anyone tries the language on me I can often twist it on them. Not an ability I WANT to be using, but sometimes I can't hold it.



contemplationistwolf said:


> As it was, my parents didn't really understand it, my school didn't understand it, society as a whole didn't understand it (awareness of this was very low in my country back then), and I myself didn't understand it. Things just kept going to shit and no-one understood how to deal with it right.


I may have had issues after college, but I think the main reason my parents actually tried with me was because the nurse that first diagnosed me when I was little wanted me committed (this was the late '80s, I GUARANTEE we've got someone on this forum that actually got stuck in a mental hospital or asylum who can explain how badly this kind of thing goes).  I was about to get ROYALLY screwed.

I don't know how much actual understanding there was, as my parents still think everyone is a little bit autistic (I'm not pushing them on it anymore, they're past the point where getting them to care will mean much).



contemplationistwolf said:


> What I don't care about at all is demanding neurotypicals to become some sort of "autism experts" who have to perfectly cater and be sensitive to us. I don't believe such efforts would be productive ... and from what I've seen in recent times, I wouldn't trust the people behind such efforts to run them properly, and perhaps even honestly. There's a fine line between supporting growth and accommodating failure; I support the former and oppose the latter.


Wouldn't want ordinary people to try to become autism experts either.  I'm the one with the condition, I'm supposed to know it well enough and without diving into politics, I'll say that I find it hard to trust ANY authority anymore.


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## contemplationistwolf (Dec 29, 2020)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Honestly, that's the lesson I learned over the last two years. There is simply WAY TOO MUCH for me to comprehend and further attempts have actually been the prime cause of meltdowns.


Yeah, the world is a complicated place ... The more you learn, the more you see how little you know as the unknown unknowns become known unknowns, and you realize that the space of unknown unknowns is even greater than you initially thought.
We have limited time and mental ability, so we have to choose what we learn. Choosing the right pieces of information to gather, the right things to analyze is a complicated process on its own. I'm still very much interested in building an effective general model of the world though as it will allow me to predict things more accurately and make better life-decisions ... though who knows, perhaps it would be smarter to just accept ignorance, settle into some tiny comfortable niche and hope for the best. Not my style though, guess I'll get to see if it works out.



Firuthi Dragovic said:


> The catch now is PURGING some of the pent-up rage I've had as a direct result without actually hurting anyone.


Yeah, I'm definitely familiar to pent-up rage myself. It's definitely good to have people willing to listen to it, so you can get feedback on whether it's sensible or not and what would be the right way forward.



Firuthi Dragovic said:


> I may have had issues after college, but I think the main reason my parents actually tried with me was because the nurse that first diagnosed me when I was little wanted me committed (this was the late '80s, I GUARANTEE we've got someone on this forum that actually got stuck in a mental hospital or asylum who can explain how badly this kind of thing goes). I was about to get ROYALLY screwed.


God that's scary! Perhaps it's in a weird way good that there was little knowledge of this stuff in my country. I'd take the pain and conflicts anytime over a mental institution.
The doctors actually wanted to admit me to some institution too when I was a toddler, but my parents fortunately rejected it. Not sure if it was a long-term thing, but glad it didn't happen. They actually did try too, but they got overwhelmed with their own lives. I had rather young parents (got me while they were in Uni).


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 30, 2020)

I actually heard that the term _Aspergers _is no longer used in medicine or the latest version of DSM. So technically we’re all Autistic since it’s the same thing (officially).


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## MaelstromEyre (Dec 30, 2020)

ASTA said:


> This question right here sort of highlights a piece of clarification that's sorely missing from this entire discussion: what sort of accommodations should society make for autistic people?



I am curious about this as well.

Obviously, in a workplace or classroom, a person can request "reasonable accommodation" under the ADA.  It might be additional time to take an exam, or permission to wear noise cancelling headphones.  It has to be reasonable, though, without causing major expense or hardship to the school/employer, and done with the understanding that the person receiving accommodation will be able to do their work.


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## Parabellum3 (Dec 30, 2020)

Oh yo guys! Here is an informative, well-made, spectacular documentary about Autism made by the *TRUE AND HONEST* Christian Weston Chandler, the OG creator of the Sonichu and Rosechu comics as well as being the most documented man in the entire world!


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## Yakamaru (Dec 30, 2020)

ASTA said:


> This question right here sort of highlights a piece of clarification that's sorely missing from this entire discussion: what sort of accommodations should society make for autistic people?


Now that I think about it..

This is a good question. What accommodations should society/other people make for Autistic people?


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## BlackDogYodel (Dec 30, 2020)

Interesting discussion.

Regarding making accomodations for autistic people. It's important to remember you're dealing with a diagnosable mental condition that effects your thought patters, sometimes it can be debilitating but other times the effects are marginal. Personally when it comes to interacting with people on the spectrum i feel it's important to take into account how, generally, autistic people tend to believe they're intrinsically more logical/rational than others while not really understanding how their emotions can effect them. Generally you have to approach autistic people a little differently to ensure they can understand where you're coming from, and vice versa. It's simply about employing courtesy and mindfulness to ensure more positive interactions. The self entitlement angle i don't really understand, we should be aware of how the condition effects people and adjust accordingly.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 1, 2021)

Happy new year my autistic chums. May this year bring us better luck, health, and happiness. (Doubt it tho.)


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 5, 2021)

Besides having your intelligence screwed, how does it impact your social life? Do you even have friends in person? Relationships? Have you ever unintentionally hurt or "make people uncomfortable" due to your inability to pick up social cues? Discriminated? Ever also been labeled a creep, psychopath, mass shooter, serial killer, etc? I just can't imagine how much longer are we (and I) supposed to cope with this shit.

Going further into philosophy, we will all perish earlier in one way another thanks to natural selection since the mortality rate is twice as high compared to the general population. Then I keep asking myself, what's the point of living then? What am I supposed to accomplish when death is heading at twice the speed for me? But then again I don't know what happens after death, do I get reincarnated and the cycle continues? That'd make the most sense I suppose. Regardless, there are so many questions, but no answers. Why does it have to be like this? That's my real question.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 5, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Besides having your intelligence screwed, how does it impact your social life? Do you even have friends in person? Relationships? Have you ever unintentionally hurt or "make people uncomfortable" due to your inability to pick up social cues? Discriminated? Ever also been labeled a creep, psychopath, mass shooter, serial killer, etc? I just can't imagine how much longer are we (and I) supposed to cope with this shit.



The last time I called someone a friend proper, I wound up finding out they were only using me to distract themselves from their miserable home life - and when I called them out on something else related to gaming, they decided I was to blame for bringing it up in the first place.  So I ditched them.

I have good acquaintances.  I don't have people I truly consider "friends".  And I certainly haven't been in a relationship in years, but that's because I have simply had no interest whatsoever.  I've only cared about it at times when I've been more stable financially - there is no way I'm being the burden in a relationship.

Made people uncomfortable?  Yeah, this still happens on occasion, and is part of the main reason why I don't tend to seek out friendships.

Discriminated?  Described that one already - tried getting assistance once, was told I "didn't look autistic".  I don't generally get it when I'm out and about though.

Creep/etc.?  No, I don't get any of that.  In fact, even remotely associating me with any of that is a MAJOR berserk button thanks to that prick from Newtown.

I really can't answer much in the way of philosophy.  Mainly because I was nudged into accomplishing WAY TOO MUCH before I hit my early twenties.  I burnt out HARD and am just worried about surviving and "being me" now.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 5, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> The last time I called someone a friend proper, I wound up finding out they were only using me to distract themselves from their miserable home life - and when I called them out on something else related to gaming, they decided I was to blame for bringing it up in the first place.  So I ditched them.
> 
> I have good acquaintances.  I don't have people I truly consider "friends".  And I certainly haven't been in a relationship in years, but that's because I have simply had no interest whatsoever.  I've only cared about it at times when I've been more stable financially - there is no way I'm being the burden in a relationship.
> 
> ...


Another thing I don’t get is what’s even the point of life when death will come naturally? Wouldn’t it make sense then to just go straight to the climax (or anti-climax) and avoid the pain that life provides us? We also better at least have first class tickets to heaven if we choose to endure it further.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 5, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Another thing I don’t get is what’s even the point of life when death will come naturally? Wouldn’t it make sense then to just go straight to the climax (or anti-climax) and avoid the pain that life provides us? We also better at least have first class tickets to heaven if we choose to endure it further.


Dunno if I should take this post seriously or take it as a super hot emo take.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 5, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Dunno if I should take this post seriously or take it as a super hot emo take.


Admittedly I wasn’t in a good mood, but the question still stands.


----------



## Mop (Jan 5, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Another thing I don’t get is what’s even the point of life when death will come naturally? Wouldn’t it make sense then to just go straight to the climax (or anti-climax) and avoid the pain that life provides us? We also better at least have first class tickets to heaven if we choose to endure it further.


That's something you should probably come up with your own personal answer to, because really it's your life.

My perspective is that there are highs and lows in life. You should endure the lows in order to find periods of happiness, to live for the people you care about, and for the sake of just finding out what your future looks like.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 5, 2021)

Mop said:


> That's something you should probably come up with your own personal answer to, because really it's your life.
> 
> My perspective is that there are highs and lows in life. You should endure the lows in order to find periods of happiness, to live for the people you care about, and for the sake of just finding out what your future looks like.


Why even bother when the future won’t be permanent?


----------



## Deleted member 134556 (Jan 6, 2021)

I like to think of autism like a skill tree in a video game, and I just distributed my points in bizarre way. I struggle with some everyday things, but I'm a solid pro in some areas that really make me stand out in the game.


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## Pomorek (Jan 7, 2021)

Such self-diagnoses are always of a little dubious value, but for my own considerations, I'm convinced that I have undiagnosed autism of some sort. Maybe Asperger's, maybe something else, any more fine-grained distinctions are not possible to make on my own. But really, it's like all fields checked: tendency to have bizarre thinking patterns, not conforming to how most other people function, and resulting in skewed behaviors; strong and inadequate emotional reactions (with anxiety being a strong factor); trouble in having functioning interactions, because of said differences; intense nerdy interests; physical clumsiness and lack of coordination (there's a reason why I avoid driving like a plague!). And being able to connect with animals better than with the vast majority of humans... Nowadays you might not see a lot of it, as I managed to "mask" it all rather well (I think), but all the propensity for bouts of weird thinking and/or behavior didn't go away completely and needs to be watched closely.

It was all much more pronounced in my school years, and I actually recall some doctors trying to diagnose me. But the ridiculous part is that the doctors of that time didn't have a slightest idea about the whole thing, and were not able to place a diagnosis; it ended up with just some vitamins being prescribed! Well, it's not like a diagnosis would help with anything of a practical value anyway...

But the biggest point is that this whole issue caused me to take some stupid choices in life. I ended up being a master of skills unneeded and domains of knowledge too esoteric for anyone else to care. This is a source of recurring pain, that if my choice of education was different, I could have had a much better life, with my intellectual skills enabling me to have a good work and all. But this ship has already sailed away. The way things are, I need to consider myself very poorly functioning in the local socio-economic setting. Which is a bad one in itself and without a clear way out, as it is permeated with social darwinism and does not forgive such mistakes.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 7, 2021)

Pomorek said:


> Such self-diagnoses are always of a little dubious value, but for my own considerations, I'm convinced that I have undiagnosed autism of some sort. Maybe Asperger's, maybe something else, any more fine-grained distinctions are not possible to make on my own. But really, it's like all fields checked: tendency to have bizarre thinking patterns, not conforming to how most other people function, and resulting in skewed behaviors; strong and inadequate emotional reactions (with anxiety being a strong factor); trouble in having functioning interactions, because of said differences; intense nerdy interests; physical clumsiness and lack of coordination (there's a reason why I avoid driving like a plague!). And being able to connect with animals better than with the vast majority of humans... Nowadays you might not see a lot of it, as I managed to "mask" it all rather well (I think), but all the propensity for bouts of weird thinking and/or behavior didn't go away completely and needs to be watched closely.
> 
> It was all much more pronounced in my school years, and I actually recall some doctors trying to diagnose me. But the ridiculous part is that the doctors of that time didn't have a slightest idea about the whole thing, and were not able to place a diagnosis; it ended up with just some vitamins being prescribed! Well, it's not like a diagnosis would help with anything of a practical value anyway...
> 
> But the biggest point is that this whole issue caused me to take some stupid choices in life. I ended up being a master of skills unneeded and domains of knowledge too esoteric for anyone else to care. This is a source of recurring pain, that if my choice of education was different, I could have had a much better life, with my intellectual skills enabling me to have a good work and all. But this ship has already sailed away. The way things are, I need to consider myself very poorly functioning in the local socio-economic setting. Which is a bad one in itself and without a clear way out, as it is permeated with social darwinism and does not forgive such mistakes.


I was officially diagnosed in 2002 or 2003 since at that age I stopped talking for a bit. I believe that you are definitely on the higher side of the spectrum like I am but you just don't know it perhaps because your symptoms aren't as visible as mine. I fidget (a lot) and unintentionally offend people since I can't control my attitude. At least under your circumstances your symptoms maybe hid well enough to the point others don't even know that you have autism. Which in my opinion is better than being labeled "autistic". (With the exception of getting SSDI lol)


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## Mop (Jan 8, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Why even bother when the future won’t be permanent?


Because the alternative to experiencing life is death and nothingness, which I believe to be a compelling enough reason.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 8, 2021)

Mop said:


> Because the alternative to experiencing life is death and nothingness, which I believe to be a compelling enough reason.


What if there's more to offer in death than in life?


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## TyraWadman (Jan 8, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> What if there's more to offer in death than in life?



We're all getting to that point regardless. What's the harm in seeing what we can accomplish with the life we've been given?


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## Ziv (Jan 8, 2021)

I'm autistic. I also study autism professionally.

Most autistic people are not furries. I have met and worked with many, many, many autistic people. But it is almost certainly true that autism is more prevalent in the furry community than in the general population. Autistic people are attracted to most kinds of niche/"outcast" subcultures but also, there is peer-reviewed, published evidence that autistic people are more likely to be drawn to sexual fetishes, which seem common among furries...

This is not saying "most autistic people are furries", this is saying "if you are a furry you're more likely to be autistic than someone who isn't". This works out mathematically because the population of autistic people is much larger than the entire population of the furry fandom.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> We're all getting to that point regardless. What's the harm in seeing what we can accomplish with the life we've been given?


It's just like what's the point of accomplishing anything if it won't last forever? I don't get that.


Also...you don't have to do this if you don't want to but could you please tell the person I ranted about that I apologize for the unnecessary outburst? If it was indeed a misunderstanding. I'm just a very easy person to piss off, and thanks to my autism.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 9, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> It's just like what's the point of accomplishing anything if it won't last forever? I don't get that.
> 
> 
> Also...you don't have to do this if you don't want to but could you please tell the person I ranted about that I apologize for the unnecessary outburst? If it was indeed a misunderstanding. I'm just a very easy person to piss off, and thanks to my autism.



You're allowed to question everything, just like you're allowed to give your life whatever meaning you desire. You can choose to leave a mark on history like the pyramids, or you can find fulfillment with what's already in your grasp. Some people think life is one big party, others find joy in societies progress. 

I've pondered similar things before, but decided if I've got one life, I'd might as well see what I can pull off. Maybe I'll be remembered in the online archives. Maybe someone will be inspired to finish a story I'd started. No one really knows!

(I have passed your message on!)


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> You're allowed to question everything, just like you're allowed to give your life whatever meaning you desire. You can choose to leave a mark on history like the pyramids, or you can find fulfillment with what's already in your grasp. Some people think life is one big party, others find joy in societies progress.
> 
> I've pondered similar things before, but decided if I've got one life, I'd might as well see what I can pull off. Maybe I'll be remembered in the online archives. Maybe someone will be inspired to finish a story I'd started. No one really knows!
> 
> (I have passed your message on!)


Yeah that's true. It'll be hard though to leave something of your own doing behind in life, at least on a mass scale. And thanks.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I'm autistic. I also study autism professionally.
> 
> Most autistic people are not furries. I have met and worked with many, many, many autistic people. But it is almost certainly true that autism is more prevalent in the furry community than in the general population. Autistic people are attracted to most kinds of niche/"outcast" subcultures but also, there is peer-reviewed, published evidence that autistic people are more likely to be drawn to sexual fetishes, which seem common among furries...
> 
> This is not saying "most autistic people are furries", this is saying "if you are a furry you're more likely to be autistic than someone who isn't". This works out mathematically because the population of autistic people is much larger than the entire population of the furry fandom.


Yes. No wonder they are attracted to taboo cultures because most are kicked out of normal activities since they are unwanted by society.


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## Ziv (Jan 9, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Yes. No wonder they are attracted to taboo cultures because most are kicked out of normal activities since they are unwanted by society.


Yep, pretty much.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 9, 2021)

Orrrrr it could have more to do with things like how kids like to pretend being animals... ooor a loveable cartoon character... orrrr just enjoying the fantasy aspect in general. :T


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Yep, pretty much.


List keeps getting longer on the reasons to get a cure lol.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Orrrrr it could have more to do with things like how kids like to pretend being animals... ooor a loveable cartoon character... orrrr just enjoying the fantasy aspect in general. :T


Society doesn’t seem to like it when autistic people behave that way.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 9, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Society doesn’t seem to like it when autistic people behave that way.



Most people wouldn't even know you have autism and still think that though. 
It's called being immature and ignorant.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Most people wouldn't even know you have autism and still think that though.
> It's called being immature and ignorant.


Oh they know I have it in my case.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 9, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Oh they know I have it in my case.


Methinks you have the same anxiety I used to have. 
"_Everything is bad all the time! Even when someone laughs, it MUST be about you_! _EVERYONE is judging me!_"

If so, I hope you can shake out of the bitterness some day.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Methinks you have the same anxiety I used to have.
> "_Everything is bad all the time! Even when someone laughs, it MUST be about you_! _EVERYONE is judging me!_"
> 
> If so, I hope you can shake out of the bitterness some day.


Oh no no no lol. It’s not just anxiety, it’s reality. Because a lot of bad shit happened to me thanks to my “uniqueness.”


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## TyraWadman (Jan 9, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Oh no no no lol. It’s not just anxiety, it’s reality. Because a lot of bad shit happened to me thanks to my “uniqueness.”


Just because one woman gets assaulted by a man doesn't make every man a wife beater. 
I ain't saying you didn't suffer, but maybe one day you'll let yourself heal.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 9, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Just because one woman gets assaulted by a man doesn't make every man a wife beater.
> I ain't saying you didn't suffer, but maybe one day you'll let yourself heal.


That’s where the cure will come in. There’s nothing else I can do up until that point besides more and more medications.


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## Ziv (Jan 10, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Orrrrr it could have more to do with things like how kids like to pretend being animals... ooor a loveable cartoon character... orrrr just enjoying the fantasy aspect in general. :T



You seem to be implying that autistic adults are children or at the very least substantially child-like. The big giveaway here is "kids". 
As an autistic adult, I find this troubling, and ask you to reflect on your use of language more.


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## Ziv (Jan 10, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> List keeps getting longer on the reasons to get a cure lol.



I don't personally want a cure, but I'm not per se anti-cure either. I definitely want to see more effective interventions to help people develop higher level language and such. I don't think the autism phenotype should be eliminated from the gene pool. I actually think that would have a really negative impact on the world as we know it.

And I, personally, am proud to be autistic. Sure, I've had a ton of shit to deal with and still deal with, I'm not denying that. But I've had to deal with a ton of shit for being transgender too and I'm proud of that. We're allowed to be proud... if we want to.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 10, 2021)

Ziv said:


> You seem to be implying that autistic adults are children or at the very least substantially child-like. The big giveaway here is "kids".


To be fair, somewhere around 80-90% of the stuff I've seen related to autism on the Internet is very specifically centered around autistic children, and most of the rest revolves around a lot of things that could probably be better described using various co-occurring conditions (formally the word is "comorbidities", but that word actually disgusts me as "morbid" is very much disease-oriented language.  There's autistic detail obsession for you I guess).  I'm pretty sure I've RUN OUT of material to research regarding autistic adults that don't have much else going on.

Just as an example, I actually tried to search "child senses vs autistic senses" to see if I could get a difference, and everything comes up as "children WITH autism" rather than comparisons. Believe me, I want to refine my search to actually get at differences, but I have no idea where to even begin with that.



Ziv said:


> I don't personally want a cure, but I'm not per se anti-cure either. I definitely want to see more effective interventions to help people develop higher level language and such.


Would you believe me if I told you your use of the words "interventions" and "language" actually make me uneasy?  "Interventions" sounds commanding and "language" implies that speaking/writing/etc. are the only communication methods society can be made to allow.



Ziv said:


> I don't think the autism phenotype should be eliminated from the gene pool. I actually think that would have a really negative impact on the world as we know it.


I'm going to have the audacity to say that our problems conforming to societal demands are pretty much the exact reason why we're needed so badly.  I don't feel comfortable going into TOO many details, but I imagine us being in one of the best positions to, say..... preserve history?



Ziv said:


> And I, personally, am proud to be autistic.


Say..... would you be able to spell out the difference between "proud" and "accepting"?  Over the last few years I've just gone to "accepting" my place on the spectrum because people keep saying "proud" or any form of pride is a bad thing.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 10, 2021)

Ziv said:


> And I, personally, am proud to be autistic. Sure, I've had a ton of shit to deal with and still deal with, I'm not denying that. But I've had to deal with a ton of shit for being transgender too and I'm proud of that. We're allowed to be proud... if we want to.


What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?


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## Troj (Jan 10, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?


Because autism in particular comes with a notable collection of strengths, I'd say, and because you might as well embrace it or come to terms with it in some form, because it's an inescapable part of you.

At the same time, it's valid and appropriate to also acknowledge the struggles, deficits, and pains that come with being autistic, too, and to grieve the losses and disappointments one has endured as a result.


----------



## Yakamaru (Jan 10, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?


Disorder does not automatically translate into something that is only negative or mostly negative. I have absolutely no issues admitting to having Asperger's to people if or possibly when they ask me about my.. Social quirks that I am very often not even aware of before they actually mention it.

It's up to you to find your strengths and weaknesses, refine your strengths and lessen your weaknesses. This is primarily done through self-reflection, introspection. Looking inwards and asking yourself a billion different hard questions. Another great way of achieving this in combination with your self-reflection is through observing others.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 10, 2021)

Ziv said:


> You seem to be implying that autistic adults are children or at the very least substantially child-like. The big giveaway here is "kids".
> As an autistic adult, I find this troubling, and ask you to reflect on your use of language more.



I'm implying that a lot of non-autistic people enjoy doing the same things too. I know I liked larping, and totally would today with the right crowd.

My concern is that they seem to have an incredibly toxic paradigm, in general, at the moment and I am trying to ground things a little by pitching other perspectives.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 10, 2021)

Troj said:


> Because autism in particular comes with a notable collection of strengths, I'd say, and because you might as well embrace it or come to terms with it in some form, because it's an inescapable part of you.
> 
> At the same time, it's valid and appropriate to also acknowledge the struggles, deficits, and pains that come with being autistic, too, and to grieve the losses and disappointments one has endured as a result.


The ratio of deficiencies is usually higher than that of strengths in most cases.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 10, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> To be fair, somewhere around 80-90% of the stuff I've seen related to autism on the Internet is very specifically centered around autistic children, and most of the rest revolves around a lot of things that could probably be better described using various co-occurring conditions (formally the word is "comorbidities", but that word actually disgusts me as "morbid" is very much disease-oriented language.  There's autistic detail obsession for you I guess).  I'm pretty sure I've RUN OUT of material to research regarding autistic adults that don't have much else going on.
> 
> Just as an example, I actually tried to search "child senses vs autistic senses" to see if I could get a difference, and everything comes up as "children WITH autism" rather than comparisons. Believe me, I want to refine my search to actually get at differences, but I have no idea where to even begin with that.
> 
> ...



As I've said, I am an actual autism researcher. I read research articles all day long. Your perception about there being a focus on children is correct but there is actually a booming literature on autistic adults. There are assuredly thousands of papers on the subject. You have not "run out". Try Google Scholar.

"Interventions" and "language" and similar terms are standard in the research literature. I apologize for making you uneasy, but these are simply the words that are used. If you want to talk about autism on a public forum, you should probably get used to hearing them.

I think acceptance is the first step to pride.

EDIT:





EDIT 2:
Something close to what you were looking for, I think?






Parabellum3 said:


> What's there to be proud of when you have something that's labeled as a disorder?



I'm very proud of my bipolar disorder as well, even though I've been hospitalized inpatient 18 times, cumulatively taking over a year of my life -- and also, it almost killed me in 2018 (I was comatose and intubated and the doctors told my parents I was going to die).

It's hard to have a disability. It's hard to be LGBT. It's hard to be Black, or any other minority race.
That's exactly WHY we should be able to have pride.

If you still feel unconvinced of this, I recommend you talk to someone with a disability like cerebral palsy (which I also have a very mild form of). Just for perspective.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 10, 2021)

Ziv said:


> As I've said, I am an actual autism researcher. I read research articles all day long. Your perception about there being a focus on children is correct but there is actually a booming literature on autistic adults. There are assuredly thousands of papers on the subject. You have not "run out". Try Google Scholar.
> 
> "Interventions" and "language" and similar terms are standard in the research literature. I apologize for making you uneasy, but these are simply the words that are used. If you want to talk about autism on a public forum, you should probably get used to hearing them.
> 
> ...


I do not think you can compare being LGBT, minority races, or the physically disabled to psychiatric illness. Mainly because those who are in the three minority groups are at least slowly being integrated into society since they are sound in mind and have potential to benefit humanity as a whole.

Society tends to shy away from those with mental disabilities due to the danger that they may pose either to themselves or others. Obviously that doesn’t apply to everyone with disabilities since there are those that can be bright. But it’s become a stereotype thanks to tragic events and the portrayal of us by the media.


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## Ziv (Jan 10, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I do not think you can compare being LGBT, minority races, or the physically disabled to psychiatric illness. Mainly because those who are in the three minority groups are at least slowly being integrated into society since they are sound in mind and have potential to benefit humanity as a whole.
> 
> Society tends to shy away from those with mental disabilities due to the danger that they may pose either to themselves or others. Obviously that doesn’t apply to everyone with disabilities since there are those that can be bright. But it’s become a stereotype thanks to tragic events and the portrayal of us by the media.



I'm 3 of those 4 things. I find them perfectly comparable. I absolutely believe me, and my bipolar disorder, and my autism (which both give me talents other people don't have) have the "potential to benefit humanity as a whole". Whether or not you are "sound in mind" does not determine a) your capacities/abilities/potential or b) your worth and value as a human being.

To me, what you just said is incredibly offensive and insulting. I spend half my time doped up on meds or locked up in an inpatient unit and half my time writing my dissertation at one of the top universities in the US. It's not that "there are those that can be bright" -- that statement is clearly predicated on the majority of psychiatric patients(/autistic people) being _not_ bright, or at least that having severe mental illness symptoms somehow strips away your intellect, not to mention your worth and "benefit [to] humanity".

There's a word for that perspective: Ableism. I recommend you Google it.
By the way, highly intelligent people are more likely to have bipolar disorder (link to reference). And, bipolar disorder is associated with the same genes as high intelligence (link to reference).

EDIT: Also, I recognize this is coming from a place of low self-esteem. I just think you really need to evaluate what you're saying about other people.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 11, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I'm 3 of those 4 things. I find them perfectly comparable. I absolutely believe me, and my bipolar disorder, and my autism (which both give me talents other people don't have) have the "potential to benefit humanity as a whole". Whether or not you are "sound in mind" does not determine a) your capacities/abilities/potential or b) your worth and value as a human being.
> 
> To me, what you just said is incredibly offensive and insulting. I spend half my time doped up on meds or locked up in an inpatient unit and half my time writing my dissertation at one of the top universities in the US. It's not that "there are those that can be bright" -- that statement is clearly predicated on the majority of psychiatric patients(/autistic people) being _not_ bright, or at least that having severe mental illness symptoms somehow strips away your intellect, not to mention your worth and "benefit [to] humanity".
> 
> ...


I know what the word means and I've been called that many times. But that is not going to stop me from expressing my view on the world. I know what it's like to be on meds and in the nut house, so I am "offending" myself as much as everyone else (according to you though but not everyone will agree on that.) Also I never implied that all people with disabilities are dumb as rocks. Einstein is a good example, he had Asperger's. There are a lot of people who are bright and have disabilities, but it unfortunately doesn't apply to everyone who has it. In the case of the Spectrum, everyone is different. Some have more strengths or weaknesses, for me it's the latter.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 11, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I know what the word means and I've been called that many times. But that is not going to stop me from expressing my view on the world. I know what it's like to be on meds and in the nut house, so I am "offending" myself as much as everyone else (according to you though but not everyone will agree on that.) Also I never implied that all people with disabilities are dumb as rocks. Einstein is a good example, he had Asperger's. There are a lot of people who are bright and have disabilities, but it unfortunately doesn't apply to everyone who has it. In the case of the Spectrum, everyone is different. Some have more strengths or weaknesses, for me it's the latter.



I will copy and paste here, with emphasis: I just think you really need to evaluate *what you're saying about other people*.
If you feel you have more weaknesses than strengths, I have no evidence or reason to invalidate your belief. I definitely don't appreciate the way you've spoken about me as a person.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 11, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I will copy and paste here, with emphasis: I just think you really need to evaluate *what you're saying about other people*.
> If you feel you have more weaknesses than strengths, I have no evidence or reason to invalidate your belief. I definitely don't appreciate the way you've spoken about me as a person.


I actually don't even know what I said that made you offended. Can you please clarify that?


----------



## Ziv (Jan 11, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I actually don't even know what I said that made you offended. Can you please clarify that?



I will give you a breakdown of this one post. I can find numerous other instances, but I don't personally have the time to spend on that.



> I do not think you can compare being LGBT, minority races, or the physically disabled to psychiatric illness.



So what are you saying here? We aren't oppressed? We don't face discrimination? We're not "actually" disabled (like those "physically disabled" people)? You do realize that psychiatric illness can directly cause "physical disabilities" right? 



> Mainly because those who are in the three minority groups are at least slowly being integrated into society since they are sound in mind



Here, "sound of mind" is clearly juxtaposed against "potential to be integrated into society". It is commonly recognized that "sound in mind" is a legalistic/euphemistic phrase referring, quite directly, to people with serious mental illnesses -- most often, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, especially since the context of the phrase usually implies some element of psychosis. You are saying that me, personally, because I have bipolar disorder, can never be "integrated into society". Which I can already prove to be false, but moving on.



> and have potential to benefit humanity as a whole.



You're literally saying I, personally, have no potential to benefit humanity. Now, I recognize this can also be interpreted as "bipolar disorder has no potential to benefit humanity" -- a statement I addressed with peer-reviewed evidence earlier in this thread, and I will also offer the book "Touched with Fire" by Kay Redfield Jamison if you do not believe bipolar disorder benefits humanity. (And if educating yourself is too much work, maybe reconsider having such strong opinions.)

In either case, the first interpretation is meaningful because your "intention" in what you're saying doesn't matter nearly as much as how people logically understand it when they read it. When you miscommunicate, it's on you to clarify and apologize. (In turn, this should be respected.)



> Society tends to shy away from those with mental disabilities due to the danger that they may pose either to themselves or others.



"Danger posed to self and others" is another legalistic phrase that is quite literally and specifically written into the laws about inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. Therefore, I believe we can logically substitute this as saying "People are afraid of people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar and schizophrenia] because they might have been hospitalized or might be hospitalized in the future".

If that actually sounds like something we should just condone and accept to you, I think your problems are deeper than I could ever help you with, so I'll leave it at that.



> Obviously that doesn’t apply to everyone with disabilities since there are those that can be bright.



I've already talked about this, but I'll go over the whole sentence. We start by negating the previous statement -- I'm going to infer that the negation is intended to be "There are some people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar disorder and schizophrenia] who have not been hospitalized". This is true. However, the reason given for this statement ("since" = giving a reason) is that "there are those that can be bright". In other words, this statement becomes "There are some people with mental illnesses who have not been hospitalized and the reason for that is some people with mental illnesses are intelligent."

Obviously, there are serious problems with equating intelligence and number of hospitalizations, especially considering peer-reviewed evidence (linked early in this thread) that people with very high intelligence are more likely than people with average intelligence to be hospitalized for bipolar disorder. Beyond the statistics, this statement implies that if you are ever hospitalized, your intelligence is lower than people who have not been hospitalized. This is incredibly hurtful to the 1% of the population who suffers from bipolar disorder. I actually can't find a source for this right now but I would say pretty confidently at least half of all of those people with bipolar disorder have been hospitalized.



> But it’s become a stereotype thanks to tragic events and the portrayal of us by the media.



I'm glad you acknowledge that the media does not portray us kindly, but not only does this not absolve any of your previous statements, it's kind of hard for me to see how it's logically related at all. It's almost like you just added this to the end to "soften the blow".


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 11, 2021)

Ziv said:


> So what are you saying here? We aren't oppressed? We don't face discrimination? We're not "actually" disabled (like those "physically disabled" people)? You do realize that psychiatric illness can directly cause "physical disabilities" right?


What I was implying is that people with psychiatric disabilities are oppressed even more than those who are physically disabled, LGBT, or racial minorities.  



Ziv said:


> Here, "sound of mind" is clearly juxtaposed against "potential to be integrated into society". It is commonly recognized that "sound in mind" is a legalistic/euphemistic phrase referring, quite directly, to people with serious mental illnesses -- most often, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, especially since the context of the phrase usually implies some element of psychosis. You are saying that me, personally, because I have bipolar disorder, can never be "integrated into society". Which I can already prove to be false, but moving on.


I wasn't even talking about you dude. Did I look like I was specifically referring to bipolar disorders? I'm talking about mental illness as a whole. Also are you saying that psychosis is a good thing? Because according to the medical community, it's not really that good...and I agree with them. 



Ziv said:


> "Danger posed to self and others" is another legalistic phrase that is quite literally and specifically written into the laws about inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. Therefore, I believe we can logically substitute this as saying "People are afraid of people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar and schizophrenia] because they might have been hospitalized or might be hospitalized in the future".
> 
> If that actually sounds like something we should just condone and accept to you, I think your problems are deeper than I could ever help you with, so I'll leave it at that.


I had the government barge into my problems because I was trying to buy my first gun. And they told me the same exact thing as I am telling you. So no, we can't substitute your phrase with this. Because if this what the government and the medical community think, then it's what society thinks about us as well. 



Ziv said:


> I've already talked about this, but I'll go over the whole sentence. We start by negating the previous statement -- I'm going to infer that the negation is intended to be "There are some people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar disorder and schizophrenia] who have not been hospitalized". This is true. However, the reason given for this statement ("since" = giving a reason) is that "there are those that can be bright". In other words, this statement becomes "There are some people with mental illnesses who have not been hospitalized and the reason for that is some people with mental illnesses are intelligent."


I wasn't specifically talking about intelligence. What I meant was about the psychotic state of an individual as a whole. This includes but not limited to; perception of reality, socialization skills, emotional management, intelligence, and the ability to support themselves. Perhaps I may have used the wrong word I admit.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 11, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> What I was implying is that people with psychiatric disabilities are oppressed even more than those who are physically disabled, LGBT, or racial minorities.
> 
> 
> I wasn't even talking about you dude. Did I look like I was specifically referring to bipolar disorders? I'm talking about mental illness as a whole. Also are you saying that psychosis is a good thing? Because according to the medical community, it's not really that good...and I agree with them.
> ...



I don't think this merits a reply. I'll probably accept an apology if you ever feel like expanding your mentalizing abilities.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 11, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I don't think this merits a reply. I'll probably accept an apology if you ever feel like expanding your mentalizing abilities.


I still don't quite get what I did to offend you since none of my arguments were directed to you, but if I have then I do apologize. Anyways, let's shake on it with Mr. Putin on my behalf. 








_Just to clarify, I wasn't actually cyberbullying but I simply like this meme._


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 12, 2021)

Ziv said:


> "Danger posed to self and others" is another legalistic phrase that is quite literally and specifically written into the laws about inpatient psychiatric hospitalization. Therefore, I believe we can logically substitute this as saying "People are afraid of people with mental illnesses [particularly bipolar and schizophrenia] because they might have been hospitalized or might be hospitalized in the future".


.....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread?  I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?


And actually, you know what?  Time to take a chance.


Ziv said:


> So what are you saying here? We aren't oppressed? We don't face discrimination?


Speaking of discrimination, one of the ones where I can REALLY get into trouble in modern society unless I learn to get this right now: is it really weird of me that I literally have trouble making heads or tails of derogatory terms (or slang in general) unless I make a complete workaround with a dual-meaning - or more horrifyingly, wordplay?  Or is this actually something that's relatively common to autistic people?  Or, heck, is that actually a neurotypical thing that I'm overestimating?

I kind of figure it might be important to know how much I need to worry about preparing ahead of time and KEEPING THAT @$#% SILENT... especially given one of the other major components of this fandom.

(I kid you not, there's one that actually kept me up at night and obsessed for DAYS. I will not be repeating it here but I can DM someone on it if it's really necessary.)


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 12, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> .....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread? I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?


ID bracelets are a bad idea, in fact depending your condition you wouldn’t even need one for people to recognize that something is wrong with you.


----------



## TyraWadman (Jan 12, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> .....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread?  I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?


You're talking about those bands like how they have for people who are diabetic/allergies right? 

If so, I think bracelets should be used if you think it's safer for you. In a time of crisis it could alert a paramedic that your situation might need to be handled a little bit differently, or to even be prepared for a struggle, and ultimately improve your chances of survival. Not saying you'd be the type to throw fists, but some are. I'd rather go into something having that extra tidbit than be without.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 12, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> You're talking about those bands like how they have for people who are diabetic/allergies right?
> 
> If so, I think bracelets should be used if you think it's safer for you. In a time of crisis it could alert a paramedic that your situation might need to be handled a little bit differently, or to even be prepared for a struggle, and ultimately improve your chances of survival. Not saying you'd be the type to throw fists, but some are. I'd rather go into something having that extra tidbit than be without.


I also heard that they’re used like when a cop pulls you over they’ll get a better idea on how to interact with you.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 12, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I also heard that they’re used like when a cop pulls you over they’ll get a better idea on how to interact with you.



Just like the paramedic, yes! There are plenty of folks that wear these bands, and the flashy bling isn't hard to recognize unless it falls off!


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 12, 2021)

TyraWadman said:


> Just like the paramedic, yes! There are plenty of folks that wear these bands, and the flashy bling isn't hard to recognize unless it falls off!


I think it makes more sense to withhold that info in your phone or something so that not everybody has to know about your problems.


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## TyraWadman (Jan 12, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I think it makes more sense to withhold that info in your phone or something so that not everybody has to know about your problems.



If you feel that it is a problem, then that's fine.
Some people aren't ashamed to acknowledge their differences though and that's why purchasing one is a choice to begin with.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> .....am... am I suddenly going to have to be really worried about the ID bracelet idea that I'd mentioned earlier in the thread?  I mean, I was under the assumption that warning people that I have something where they might need to get clear (I have heard some REAL horror stories of how meltdowns can go, as some of my other recent posts can attest, and I STILL haven't got a full idea how bad mine can get as I've learned a little about withdrawing if I get overloaded) might very well be something important - am I going to have to worry about shunning?
> 
> 
> And actually, you know what?  Time to take a chance.
> ...



I actually do wear buttons displayed prominently that I'm bipolar and autistic, so I guess my answer is no? But maybe I just don't care what people think of me. I think it's a good idea, honestly, if you're in a situation similar to mine, where things can get out of hand. But to give context, I've been hospitalized inpatient 18 times and I have definitely been verbally aggressive to strangers (especially those who work in pharmacies, it seems...) as well as threaten to strangers that I'm going to kill myself.

I think it's common to autistic people actually! And it can be the source of some A+ humor.

EDIT: My buttons also function as medical alert bracelets, just like for diabetes etc, as you were saying. Since I'm on 7 different meds, all of which are heavy-duty (Thorazine, Zyprexa, Valium, lithium, lamotrigine, Adderall... am I forgetting one?) and absolutely need to be known in an emergency medical situation. For example, I could get NMS which is a life-threatening condition caused by Thorazine and Zyprexa, but it's similar to several other syndromes and you likely would not be able to confirm it without seeing my bipolar button. Also, if I were to have a seizure that turned status epilepticus, they would need to give me a much higher dose than usual on the benzos because I'm on them long-term and I have a tolerance. And many, many other such situations.


----------



## Bababooey (Jan 13, 2021)

Mr. Fox said:


> I'm actually starting to wonder if the fandom made me autistic, or gave me brain damage. I don't remember being this messed up before joining it.


You know how how insulting your comment is to actual autistic people, right?


----------



## Bababooey (Jan 13, 2021)

Mr. Fox said:


> Going to be honest here, it is actually extremely rude to insinuate someone isn't autistic because they made a joke about it in relation to the fandom, given the lifelong social and personal struggles that surround it. I might actually be a little pissed off right now.


Sorry but saying something like the fandom made you autistic was a really ignorant thing to say and in no way made me think you were genuine. Also you basically implied that autistic people are "messed up." I'm a little angry too. I'm angry at this entire thread due to all the ableist comments. I'm angry about the OP saying he wants a "cure" for autism. You're angry? Join the club, bud.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Chomby said:


> Sorry but saying something like the fandom made you autistic was a really ignorant thing to say and in no way made me think you were genuine. Also you basically implied that autistic people are "messed up." I'm a little angry too. I'm angry at this entire thread due to all the ableist comments. I'm angry about the OP saying he wants a "cure" for autism. You're angry? Join the club, bud.



I don't know if this makes you feel better but I'm a little reassured that I am not the only one here who finds a lot of this discourse more than a little problematic...


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I think it makes more sense to withhold that info in your phone or something so that not everybody has to know about your problems.



Ah, yes. So when the paramedics come to treat my NMS, they will have absolutely no idea what is wrong with me, because they don't know how to unlock my phone (or that they should even be trying to do so, which is illegal) and I am literally dying. Great idea. Couldn't possibly go wrong. Doesn't miss the point of medical IDs at all... not even a little! /s

You keep saying how you're so low functioning, you have so many more deficits and little to no strengths, etc. If that's the case, why are you posting? What evidence have you offered that YOU are intelligent and worth listening to... at all? Yes, this is a low shot because I, too, think that every human being has worth and is worth listening to. But honestly? What qualities do you possess that gives you the right to say what you've said in this thread? Are you stupid, or aren't you? You can't be both.

EDIT: I just want to be clear that I'm attempting to invert OP's own logic and statements he himself has made. I do not endorse this worldview.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 13, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Ah, yes. So when the paramedics come to treat my NMS, they will have absolutely no idea what is wrong with me, because they don't know how to unlock my phone (or that they should even be trying to do so, which is illegal) and I am literally dying. Great idea. Couldn't possibly go wrong. Doesn't miss the point of medical IDs at all... not even a little! /s
> 
> You keep saying how you're so low functioning, you have so many more deficits and little to no strengths, etc. If that's the case, why are you posting? What evidence have you offered that YOU are intelligent and worth listening to... at all? Yes, this is a low shot because I, too, think that every human being has worth and is worth listening to. But honestly? What qualities do you possess that gives you the right to say what you've said in this thread? Are you stupid, or aren't you? You can't be both.
> 
> EDIT: I just want to be clear that I'm attempting to invert OP's own logic and statements he himself has made. I do not endorse this worldview.


I was only referring to psychiatric information. That kind of info is useless for EMS or other personal as in let's say a car accident because your physical treatment is a priority. You can tell them later about your mental problems. Oh and by the way...you're on MY THREAD, son. 


Chomby said:


> I'm angry about the OP saying he wants a "cure" for autism.


So you're basically against me trying to improve my life?


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I was only referring to psychiatric information. That kind of info is useless for EMS or other personal as in let's say a car accident because your physical treatment is a priority. You can tell them later about your mental problems. Oh and by the way...you're on MY THREAD, son.
> 
> So you're basically against me trying to improve my life?



I'm referring to psychiatric information too. It's clearly not useless if it could literally save my life.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 13, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I'm referring to psychiatric information too. It's clearly not useless if it could literally save my life.


I'm not exactly sure in what cases that may be needed, but ok.


----------



## MaetheDragon (Jan 13, 2021)

I just realized I posted here a long time ago, lol. But, I feel like I have something to add to this current conversation.

I mean, it’s not really fair to judge someone based on the idea that they’re looking for a cure. Who knows what their current situation is? It could be entirely valid to want something based on the experiences they have, so to say that it’s bad for someone to want that is assuming much more than I’d like.

On the other hand, though, there is merit to thinking about Autism as an important aspect of who you are as a person. If there were a cure for Autism, then who’s to say getting rid of it will not only change your life, but fundamental aspects of yourself, as well? We still don’t know for sure, and it could be a long time before we figure it out.

All I know is that I’m happy in my own skin, and that’s all that matters. There’s no need to attack each other over how someone views their condition.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I'm not exactly sure in what cases that may be needed, but ok.



That's because, as I have said, you do not have good mentalizing abilities.
1. My own personal case, being prescribed 7 heavy-duty meds. Plenty of interactions could kill me. Seeing my bipolar button informs the EMTs that I might be taking certain classes of drugs that do not play well with other drugs. Death avoided.
2. Also my personal case, NMS, which is caused by the meds I take for bipolar disorder and has pretty much no other cause.
3. You have schizophrenia and you're psychotic. Or you have low-functioning autism and you're existing. People in these situations are shot and killed by cops every single day.

Let me ask you something. Are you white?


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 13, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Let me ask you something. Are you white?


I don’t feel comfortable to answer that question because I have a feeling on where this is going.

Also you’ll be breaking the rules at that point.


----------



## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 13, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Let me ask you something. Are you white?





Parabellum3 said:


> I don’t feel comfortable to answer that question because I have a feeling on where this is going.


Ziv.... THIS time, I have to concur with Parabellum.  You went too far.  Please think a little more about our spectrum here.

You mentioned race and mentalizing abilities WAY TOO CLOSE to each other, to someone who has already been catastrophizing extensively.  (I believe the scholarly literature calls it "rumination" or "anger rumination" or possibly "perseveration" - "catastrophizing" comes up more in the casual searches.) As someone who also catastrophizes a lot.... if his is anything like mine, I can tell you that you've just MASSIVELY fed the underlying anxiety.

The fact that the pairing isn't automatically an accusation of the person you're engaging, or was never even intended to BE such, is far less relevant than you think.  Catastrophizing works THAT fast off of THAT little information.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Ziv.... THIS time, I have to concur with Parabellum.  You went too far.  Please think a little more about our spectrum here.
> 
> You mentioned race and mentalizing abilities WAY TOO CLOSE to each other, to someone who has already been catastrophizing extensively.  (I believe the scholarly literature calls it "rumination" or "anger rumination" or possibly "perseveration" - "catastrophizing" comes up more in the casual searches.) As someone who also catastrophizes a lot.... if his is anything like mine, I can tell you that you've just MASSIVELY fed the underlying anxiety.
> 
> The fact that the pairing isn't automatically an accusation of the person you're engaging, or was never even intended to BE such, is far less relevant than you think.  Catastrophizing works THAT fast off of THAT little information.



I'm honestly a little confused. I'm making a rhetorical point that white people are inherently less concerned about getting killed by cops. Do you... disagree? Like, honestly I am confused.

EDIT: Also, that last point you made really should be made at Parabellum, imo. And where's the sympathy for me? I've spoken at length about my own disabilities in this thread and I've literally been called worthless to humanity... If I had any less restraint honestly I'd tell Parabellum right where he can stick his opinions.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 13, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I don’t feel comfortable to answer that question because I have a feeling on where this is going.
> 
> Also you’ll be breaking the rules at that point.



I'm not really sure about what you're referring to, so if you can enlighten me...
I don't see how where I was going would break any rules of this forum that I have ever been exposed to.

EDIT: Alright, I guess I could see where pointing out that black people get killed by police is "political" but if that's how the mods feel, ban me then.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I'm not really sure about what you're referring to, so if you can enlighten me...
> I don't see how where I was going would break any rules of this forum that I have ever been exposed to.


I would’ve assume that you would start getting into politics such as comparing what I say to racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. I will not have any of that, especially during these times.


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## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I would’ve assume that you would start getting into politics such as comparing what I say to racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. I will not have any of that, especially during these times.



I'm saying that you aren't concerned about getting killed by cops (or, more accurately, you have said/implied this) and I'm telling you why your "solution" does not work for everyone. Nothing less and nothing more.


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## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I would’ve assume that you would start getting into politics such as comparing what I say to racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. I will not have any of that, especially during these times.



See, this is the problem with you, Parabellum. You assume so much and empathize with others so little.
But as I said before, if pointing out that black people with disabilities are being murdered by police is "political discussion" then I welcome the banhammer because I don't need that kind of community. I'm not here to talk politics, parties, who's done what, that kind of bullshit -- it's of no interest to me, anyway. But I see these things as different. The police murder rate is evidence-based, it's not an opinion.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> See, this is the problem with you, Parabellum. You assume so much and empathize with others so little.
> But as I said before, if pointing out that black people with disabilities are being murdered by police is "political discussion" then I welcome the banhammer because I don't need that kind of community. I'm not here to talk politics, parties, who's done what, that kind of bullshit -- it's of no interest to me, anyway. But I see these things as different. The police murder rate is evidence-based, it's not an opinion.


Well I'm relieved that you weren't going down that path. Then why did you ask me if I'm white? Does it have to do with the fact that white people have higher chance of being diagnosed with autism? If so then yeah that is true.


----------



## Lucyfur (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Well I'm relieved that you weren't going down that path. Then why did you ask me if I'm white? Does it have to do with the fact that white have higher rates of autism? If so then yeah that is true.


*diagnosed autism.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Well I'm relieved that you weren't going down that path. Then why did you ask me if I'm white? Does it have to do with the fact that white people have higher chance of being diagnosed with autism? If so then yeah that is true.



That is true, but it's probably not for the reasons you think? But I don't want to assume because that would make me a hypocrite. No, the reason I asked is I simply didn't want to preach at you about the dangers you face if you were black yourself... lol. That's really why.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> That is true, but it's probably not for the reasons you think? But I don't want to assume because that would make me a hypocrite. No, the reason I asked is I simply didn't want to preach at you about the dangers you face if you were black yourself... lol. That's really why.


I see. Well that makes kinda sense ngl.


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## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I see. Well that makes kinda sense ngl.



See? Lol.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> See? Lol.


Better to just avoid cops all together if you can.


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## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Better to just avoid cops all together if you can.



Now that I do agree with.
Unfortunately, it can't always be avoided... this is actually especially true if you have a psychiatric disorder  I've been cuffed tight behind my back when I had committed no crime except attempting suicide.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Now that I do agree with.
> Unfortunately, it can't always be avoided... this is actually especially true if you have a psychiatric disorder  I've been cuffed tight behind my back when I had committed no crime except attempting suicide.


They did the same to me when I tried to buy my first gun, but the dealers got suspicious of me and called the FBI too look through all my socials to see if I said anything "bad". Which unfortunately I did but it was one sentence, out of sarcasm, and it was a couple years prior. But of course the paranoid keyboard warriors wouldn't have any of it. Now I have to wait 4 more years for the restriction to expire or move out of state.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> They did the same to me when I tried to buy my first gun, but the dealers got suspicious of me and called the FBI too look through all my socials to see if I said anything "bad". Which unfortunately I did but it was one sentence, out of sarcasm, and it was a couple years prior. But of course the paranoid keyboard warriors wouldn't have any of it. Now I have to wait 4 more years for the restriction to expire or move out of state.



I don't want a gun but I'm also legally barred from owning one for the next 5 years.
Mine will expire as well, but if it stacked cumulatively for each time I've been given this restriction it would be like 70 years lol


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I don't want a gun but I'm also legally barred from owning one for the next 5 years.
> Mine will expire as well, but if it stacked cumulatively for each time I've been given this restriction it would be like 70 years lol


Just move out of state and it won't apply any longer lol. But it sucks that I was trying my hardest to look "normal" but I still stood out. It made me quite sad to say the least.


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## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Just move out of state and it won't apply any longer lol. But it sucks that I was trying my hardest to look "normal" but I still stood out. It made me quite sad to say the least.



I'm actually honestly not sure if it will work that way for me! I think I'm in some kind of federal database. 
I'm sorry you went through that.


----------



## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I'm actually honestly not sure if it will work that way for me! I think I'm in some kind of federal database.
> I'm sorry you went through that.


I was in an ER for less than 24 hours since I explained the bullshit that they put me in to. If you went to a state hospital then your name will be recorded. And thanks, I'm sorry for you as well.


----------



## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I was in an ER for less than 24 hours since I explained the bullshit that they put me in to. If you went to a state hospital then your name will be recorded. And thanks, I'm sorry for you as well.



I've been inpatient 18 times, sometimes for weeks or even months. *shrug* It is what it is. I just live my life the best I can.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I've been inpatient 18 times, sometimes for weeks or even months. *shrug* It is what it is. I just live my life the best I can.


That's why we need to research for more effective treatments and cures, so we can avoid THIS.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 14, 2021)

Ziv said:


> I'm honestly a little confused. I'm making a rhetorical point that white people are inherently less concerned about getting killed by cops. Do you... disagree? Like, honestly I am confused.
> 
> EDIT: Also, that last point you made really should be made at Parabellum, imo. And where's the sympathy for me? I've spoken at length about my own disabilities in this thread and I've literally been called worthless to humanity... If I had any less restraint honestly I'd tell Parabellum right where he can stick his opinions.


After reading the posts you've made towards Parabellum since... it appears I 100% misread where you were going with your statements.  I am EXCEPTIONALLY bad at reading rhetorical questions and seeing a race mention listed IMMEDIATELY after a comment about mentalizing LITERALLY looked to me at the time like an insult of ability.  Spelling out how people have it better is one thing and is generally appropriate (but is VERY easy to do wrong), making sure to be sensitive about others' states is very appropriate, but insulting abilities is inappropriate.  Now that I realize where you were ACTUALLY going with the question, sorry about the mixup there.

Based on my own interactions with cops?  Yeah, I'm far less concerned and I can see how white people would be inherently less concerned.  I think the last negativity I had with an officer was when I was pulled over last year for something like a taillight at night and he had one of the side beams staring RIGHT into my rear-view mirror... which was a sight overload.  I endured it at the time and that interaction went peacefully, but that light's apparently a thing used for drunk drivers.  This was a state cop, patrolling a rural area - basically, about as many calm circumstances as you could muster.  That's as far as I'll go with that because I already know that the calm scenario is FAR rarer outside these very specific circumstances, even the calm scenario would be overshadowed by something I'm only going to call "lingering trauma", and it probably would run afoul of forum rules to go into ALL the depth and history of the issue.


As for "where's the sympathy"?  I think at some point I'm going to have to have a long discussion about how utterly BAD I am at sympathy and emotions in general (I REALLY hope it's underdeveloped skills and not some actual comorbidity going on), but for the moment I'm going to tell you that the misread is probably the biggest factor in me being unsympathetic.  You've been professional and direct about the whole autism thing and quite honest about your own state, so I think with the misread I just got caught completely off guard and tried to fall back on autism studies to defuse.

As for worthlessness?  I had to reread the last few pages of conversation again to understand what was going on.  Your restraint has honestly been... kinda astronomical given some of the massive spelling-out I've seen.  You actually went to great lengths to directly answer why something is offensive and I have a lot of respect for that, because I don't see that NEARLY ENOUGH either on the Internet or in public spaces.  Giving up would have been understandable.  I tried to leave the whole thing alone and let it play out.  But now that I think about it?  In addition to the misread, I think my glossing over you being called worthless might also be because I interpreted the matter as settled.  You stood up for yourself when it happened.  I understood that as the end of that specific issue.

If there's anything else I need to address about the situation, please let me know.


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## Ziv (Jan 14, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> After reading the posts you've made towards Parabellum since... it appears I 100% misread where you were going with your statements.  I am EXCEPTIONALLY bad at reading rhetorical questions and seeing a race mention listed IMMEDIATELY after a comment about mentalizing LITERALLY looked to me at the time like an insult of ability.  Spelling out how people have it better is one thing and is generally appropriate (but is VERY easy to do wrong), making sure to be sensitive about others' states is very appropriate, but insulting abilities is inappropriate.  Now that I realize where you were ACTUALLY going with the question, sorry about the mixup there.
> 
> Based on my own interactions with cops?  Yeah, I'm far less concerned and I can see how white people would be inherently less concerned.  I think the last negativity I had with an officer was when I was pulled over last year for something like a taillight at night and he had one of the side beams staring RIGHT into my rear-view mirror... which was a sight overload.  I endured it at the time and that interaction went peacefully, but that light's apparently a thing used for drunk drivers.  This was a state cop, patrolling a rural area - basically, about as many calm circumstances as you could muster.  That's as far as I'll go with that because I already know that the calm scenario is FAR rarer outside these very specific circumstances, even the calm scenario would be overshadowed by something I'm only going to call "lingering trauma", and it probably would run afoul of forum rules to go into ALL the depth and history of the issue.
> 
> ...



I know you know this based on your reply, but as to this last paragraph I just want to reiterate that me having very high verbal intelligence (which I do -- 99th percentile score on GRE verbal, twice, and that's only for graduate students) doesn't mean I'm not affected by being called worthless to humanity because of my disabilities (and in that case, OP seemed to be directing his anger specifically at disabilities HE DOES NOT HAVE, as I spelled out --- nobody hears "sound of mind" and "danger to self and others" and says "oh, autism" -- they obviously think psychosis) -- and it's not "settled" just because one person stood up and said it wasn't cool. Yeah, I'm used to it because a huge chunk of people in the world buy into stigma like that and I experience it every day, but...


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## MaetheDragon (Jan 18, 2021)

Boxxed said:


> Man, who would have guessed that a community where people dress up like autistic animals would be full of speds?


I unironically laughed at this, I’m sorry. :’)

I didn’t mean to, but I did!


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## Fallowfox (Jan 23, 2021)

Troj said:


> Because autism in particular comes with a notable collection of strengths, I'd say, and because you might as well embrace it or come to terms with it in some form, because it's an inescapable part of you.
> 
> At the same time, it's valid and appropriate to also acknowledge the struggles, deficits, and pains that come with being autistic, too, and to grieve the losses and disappointments one has endured as a result.



I think this was a useful comment and I'm going to make an effort to say 'diagnosis' instead of 'disorder' in the future.


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## Troj (Jan 23, 2021)

Fallowfox said:


> I think this was a useful comment and I'm going to make an effort to say 'diagnosis' instead of 'disorder' in the future.



By all means, continue to say "Autism Spectrum Disorder," because that's what it's called ---but, yeah, when talking about autism generally, I've started to lean towards calling it a "neurotype." I will sometimes call it a disability or disorder if the focus of the conversation is on how autistic people struggle and the accommodations that can help.

I'd say, at the very least, don't refer to it as a mental illness.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 23, 2021)

Fallowfox said:


> I think this was a useful comment and I'm going to make an effort to say 'diagnosis' instead of 'disorder' in the future.


Is it because it sounds less “offensive”?


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## Troj (Jan 23, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> Is it because it sounds less “offensive”?


Sure---but even more importantly, I think words help to prime people's assumptions and expectations. 

If autism is _only_ framed as something to be loathed, pitied, or feared, then that will often lead to autistic people being loathed, pitied, and feared, and their strengths and skills being missed or misinterpreted.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 23, 2021)

Troj said:


> Sure---but even more importantly, I think words help to prime people's assumptions and expectations.
> 
> If autism is _only_ framed as something to be loathed, pitied, or feared, then that will often lead to autistic people being loathed, pitied, and feared, and their strengths and skills being missed or misinterpreted.


I personally don't think that'll make any difference whatsoever because everyone still knows what it is. Plus I would not argue with the medical community either since any form of psychiatric illnesses is defined by the chemical imbalance in the brain.


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## Troj (Jan 23, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I personally don't think that'll make any difference whatsoever because everyone still knows what it is. Plus I would not argue with the medical community either since any form of psychiatric illnesses is defined by the chemical imbalance in the brain.



I wouldn't say "everyone" knows what it is, having come across plenty of people (including clinicians) whose understanding of autism is still stuck in the 80s at least.

This also isn't about "arguing" with the medical community--especially since the medical community isn't in perfect agreement on these matters, either---but rather, about looking at "different kinds of brains" from varied perspectives.

Also, it's not all about chemical imbalances, as structural abnormalities/differences and brain damage can cause mental disorders and other neurological issues, too.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 24, 2021)

Troj said:


> I wouldn't say "everyone" knows what it is, having come across plenty of people (including clinicians) whose understanding of autism is still stuck in the 80s at least.
> 
> This also isn't about "arguing" with the medical community--especially since the medical community isn't in perfect agreement on these matters, either---but rather, about looking at "different kinds of brains" from varied perspectives.
> 
> Also, it's not all about chemical imbalances, as *structural abnormalities/differences* and brain damage can cause mental disorders and other neurological issues, too.



Personal story- I had a brain scan when I was 22 because of uncontrollable passing out, and structural abnormalities was precisely what they were looking for. 

It turned out I had a perfectly normal juicy brain. (and I think I was just over-working at the time and this was the cause of the trouble!)


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## Yakamaru (Jan 24, 2021)

Troj said:


> By all means, continue to say "Autism Spectrum Disorder," because that's what it's called ---but, yeah, when talking about autism generally, I've started to lean towards calling it a "neurotype." I will sometimes call it a disability or disorder if the focus of the conversation is on how autistic people struggle and the accommodations that can help.
> 
> I'd say, at the very least, don't refer to it as a mental illness.


What accommodations are you referring to? I am curious to know.


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## Troj (Jan 24, 2021)

Aha! Great question.

Well, for starters, lots of autistic people have a preferred sensory modality when it comes to absorbing, understanding, remembering, and/or communicating information, and a sensory modality in which they are less strong. So, one work or academic accommodation might require that the autistic person be provided with written instructions on important tasks, for example, instead of just being told things verbally.

Autistic people often benefit from accommodations that allow them to take breaks, especially when they feel themselves approaching shutdown or meltdown.

Autistic people often benefit from being allowed to have a stim toy that allows them to fiddle with their hands to keep them focused and calm.

Autistic people may benefit from sensory accommodations in their environment that allow them to study or work someplace that will be quiet, lightly-lit, or less distracting.

Autistic people often benefit from more clear, consistent, and structured instructions, expectations, and schedules.

Autistic people may also benefit from accommodations like extra time on assignments and tests.

Broadly, just realizing that the person in front of you may need time to process new events or information, may be bothered by strong sensory input, and may start to behave in certain ways when they get overwhelmed or overstimulated can be helpful for all parties involved.


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## Parabellum3 (Jan 24, 2021)

Troj said:


> I wouldn't say "everyone" knows what it is, having come across plenty of people (including clinicians) whose understanding of autism is still stuck in the 80s at least.
> 
> This also isn't about "arguing" with the medical community--especially since the medical community isn't in perfect agreement on these matters, either---but rather, about looking at "different kinds of brains" from varied perspectives.
> 
> Also, it's not all about chemical imbalances, as structural abnormalities/differences and brain damage can cause mental disorders and other neurological issues, too.


I suppose that even if you exclude boomers, people today are more informed of autism but still eye the downsides the most than the upsides of it. If there are any that is.

And by “structural abnormalities”, are you referring to genetics or something else?


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## Troj (Jan 24, 2021)

Structural abnormalities, as in, the brain itself looks different on, say, a CAT, MRI, or similar scan, for example.

I'd say younger people are perhaps more savvy than older people, and urban people may be more savvy than rural people when it comes to knowing about autism---but, misconceptions still abound. In particular, their own stereotypes and assumptions may cause them to misinterpret or miss signs in autism in women and ethnic/racial minorities.


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## Fallowfox (Jan 24, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I suppose that even if you exclude boomers, people today are more informed of autism but still eye the downsides the most than the upsides of it. If there are any that is.
> 
> And by “structural abnormalities”, are you referring to genetics or something else?



The cause of autism is complex and not fully understood. 
'structural abnormality' here refers to the fact that the connections between brain cells and brain-regions can be different in the brain of somebody with autism, compared with a typical brain.


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## Troj (Jan 24, 2021)

Correct, Fallowfox! One hypothesis (among many) is that when autistic people's brains undergo the normal neuronal pruning around age 2, their brain doesn't prune away extraneous connections in the usual way.


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## RileyTheOtter (Jan 25, 2021)

I should check this site more often. Bit late on the topic, but I agree with Ziv and Firuthi that a medical bracelet (or similar item) indicating a diagnosis may not be the worst idea. I know I could definitely have a need for one if I ever have a meltdown down like I used to when I was a teenager, having one or not may be the difference between my surviving the meltdown or being killed because of it if what I have been told about my past meltdowns are even half true.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Jan 27, 2021)

Okay, so time to breach a topic about one of the traits that appears to show up a lot in the autism spectrum, and in fact shows up quite a bit in the general population as well.  At least, if you believe the literature.  It's also one of those traits that's probably a source of the "uncaring" or "emotionless" stereotypes so associated with autism.

It's been touched on a tiny bit in the thread already, just not by name.  So I might as well address it proper.

I speak of something called "alexithymia", which is basically the inability to identify and describe emotions.  Not just your own, but others' as well.

It's not a proper clinical diagnosis, at least not yet.

I suspect I've got this one in spades.  I see so many discussions where people try to club it into the other person to see their viewpoint, but any attempt to read their heart just.... fails with me.  I'd have better luck trying to pick diamonds out of their words than try to catch the emotion tying them together.

(I know I come off as a joker with what I said but I'm serious - other than fear and anger I have serious difficulties reading even my OWN emotions, and reading others' is just not plausible.  It's made my last few attempts at therapy difficult as I quite literally can't describe much of what I'm feeling - I pretty much had to go with getting a grasp of my own condition instead.)

Some people who've seen some of my past posts might remember some of my... unusual stances on things (self-interest, greed, etc.).  I'm guessing at this point they're attempts to bypass my lack of recognition of emotion.  It's not a perfect fix, but I recognize at this point I may not HAVE the option of a larger fix and I'm just trying to go with what I've got.


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## Lady Anubis (Jan 27, 2021)

Fallowfox said:


> I think this was a useful comment and I'm going to make an effort to say 'diagnosis' instead of 'disorder' in the future.


I agree with what you just said to the qoute you were replying too. I myself have an Autism Spectrum Disability. I am open to share it so that others dont judge me right off the bat and detour from me. I do need friends.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 2, 2021)

Reviving this because it's that month again - and that day again, in fact.  (Would have just opened a new thread or maybe not even worried about it if this was six months old, but it's only been about two.)

I want to welcome any autistic furs that weren't here the last time this thread was active and give a chance for the ones that were here to say what they need to.



Okay, formalities aside, I actually asked about the blue thing (AS encourages people to wear blue, a lot of autism advocates detest that program) and apparently the better color to wear is red.  I forget the details other than that blue apparently comes up depressing.  Then again, red comes up as too much of a warning to some of us.  Frankly, I'm one of the ones that considers "wearing specific colors at specific times as a form of solidarity" to be a shallow and maybe even slightly offensive false front, but I'm only one person on the spectrum, so - what do I know?


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## Miles Marsalis (Apr 2, 2021)

It's World Autism Awareness Day, so I just wanted to acknowledge that for the applicable parties.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 2, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Reviving this because it's that month again - and that day again, in fact.  (Would have just opened a new thread or maybe not even worried about it if this was six months old, but it's only been about two.)
> 
> I want to welcome any autistic furs that weren't here the last time this thread was active and give a chance for the ones that were here to say what they need to.
> 
> ...


AS? Autism Speaks?


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 2, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> AS? Autism Speaks?


The very same, the one where some bad experiences have already been shared in this thread.

I included the fact that autism advocates don't like it AND my take on the whole "wear this at this time" thing being shallow and offensive as a counterbalance.

That said, outright trashing someone just because they're wearing a certain color at a certain time for awareness campaigns is itself a bit of cult-like scummy behavior.  I cannot and should not tell people how to act in this regard, I can only provide what I make of it.


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## Bababooey (Apr 2, 2021)

Is it rare for some aspies to not experience sensory overload and to understand sarcasm and stuff like that? I know it's a spectrum.

Also yay it's World Autism Awareness day. People will still find me annoying and make ableist comments to me regardless.


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## Bababooey (Apr 2, 2021)

I can't tell you how many times I've been invalidated after mentioning I have ASD because they automatically assume I'm using it as an excuse.

Sorry. This thread isn't about me. I'm just in a bad headspace. Peace.


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## ben909 (Apr 2, 2021)

Chomby said:


> Is it rare for some aspies to not experience sensory overload and to understand sarcasm and stuff like that? I know it's a spectrum.
> 
> Also yay it's World Autism Awareness day. People will still find me annoying and make ableist comments to me regardless.


Its not that rare i think, although i don’t know for sure, i personally don’t think old terms shpuld of been combined as many forms are very different, although they might of done it to stop people from using it to try and predict traits


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 2, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I can't tell you how many times I've been invalidated after mentioning I have ASD because they automatically assume I'm using it as an excuse.


I admit I wind up having to add a lot more to the statements whenever I mention my own diagnosis because of people who act like that.

Like, when it actually needs to come up, I'm like "look, I'm autistic, it messes with X(, Y, and Z) in this situation, let's work around that".  So far, so good.

I expect it won't work one day, and that's how I'll spot a potentially toxic person.


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## Deleted member 134556 (Apr 2, 2021)

There are generally good intentions behind making a day that acknowledges people like us on the spectrum, and I understand a lot of people care. I personally appreciate all the help offered, but like others may have mentioned, it's important for everyone to distinguish compassion and assistance towards people those with autism, from people engaging in ableism and exploitation towards us for personal gains.

I don't want people to look down on me or pity me for having autism. I myself just want to be understood, and accepted by people like pretty much any other people with specific attributes. I want to be included in the conversation where I work, and be able to joke around and have fun without people thinking I'm going to freak out and snap. I don't want people to be scared of me, or think I'm not capable of having a basic interaction.

Every person with autism is different. We all face our own challenges, have our own characteristics, and different skills we've developed. The best way to understand us, is to ask us ourselves what having autism is like, and let us be the primary voice regarding the spectrum.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 3, 2021)

World autism day? Hadn't heard of it. Oh right because we are the only ones who talk about it since nobody else gives a shit lol.


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## the sleepiest kitty (Apr 3, 2021)

Honestly, I think I could have Autism. My old therapist told me she wanted to get me screened for it, but I had to leave that practice because I missed a second appointment. I missed it because I developed salmonella after the 24 hour notice period, so it was too late for me to cancel the appointment.

My current therapist tell me no because apparently "I don't look Autistic", which is the oldest excuse in the book.


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## ben909 (Apr 3, 2021)

sleepy kitty said:


> Honestly, I think I could have Autism. My old therapist told me she wanted to get me screened for it, but I had to leave that practice because I missed a second appointment. I missed it because I developed salmonella after the 24 hour notice period, so it was too late for me to cancel the appointment.
> 
> My current therapist tell me no because apparently "I don't look Autistic", which is the oldest excuse in the book.


There is a “look”???


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## the sleepiest kitty (Apr 3, 2021)

ben909 said:


> There is a “look”???


Exactly! There IS no look. I can't believe she said this.


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 3, 2021)

sleepy kitty said:


> My current therapist tell me no because apparently "I don't look Autistic", which is the oldest excuse in the book.


Sadly, there are still too many people who are going to claim autism has a "look".  Probably because all they know are the severe stories.  I've been hit with that sentence a few times, probably fewer than a lot of other autistic people, but the most painful time by far was when I was trying to get government help some years back (I think it was 15 or so years now?).

I hate to assume living conditions, but do you have the option of finding another therapist?  No, really, I mean it, if a therapist is going to assume only one presentation of potentially-relevant conditions then that doesn't bode well for the rest of their approach.


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## the sleepiest kitty (Apr 3, 2021)

Firuthi Dragovic said:


> Sadly, there are still too many people who are going to claim autism has a "look".  Probably because all they know are the severe stories.  I've been hit with that sentence a few times, probably fewer than a lot of other autistic people, but the most painful time by far was when I was trying to get government help some years back (I think it was 15 or so years now?).
> 
> I hate to assume living conditions, but do you have the option of finding another therapist?  No, really, I mean it, if a therapist is going to assume only one presentation of potentially-relevant conditions then that doesn't bode well for the rest of their approach.


I'm going to bring it up to her again, and if she continues to refuse to help me, I might try to find somewhere else. I have two insurance providers so it probably won't be an issue. I already have a place in mind.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Apr 3, 2021)

In case it's not REALLY obvious, yeah I have aspergers. You know, having a fascination with Sonic and Warhammer 40,000 sort of points that out. However, I HATE people to use my disability to place me on a pedestal. All through high school I simply wanted to be seen as normal and that is what I want now. I don't see myself as a mainline furry, (a lot of my characters are way more violent and serious for the general furry fandom), but could there be a correlation? Probably, but I don't use my diagnosis to make myself a 'special snowflake'.  To me being seen as normal is probably the best option for me.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 3, 2021)

I have also been claimed that I don’t look autistic. And I think it is because people compare autistic symptoms with that of Down syndrome or any other disabilities that cause mental retardation. However some still see my abnormalities, though they don’t know if it is autism or not.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Apr 3, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I have also been claimed that I don’t look autistic. And I think it is because people compare autistic symptoms with that of Down syndrome or any other disabilities that cause mental retardation. However some still see my abnormalities, though they don’t know if it is autism or not.



They ironically thought I had ADD in my early years of elementary school.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 3, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> They ironically thought I had ADD in my early years of elementary school.


I actually have ADHD as well, forgot to mention that. Though it’s not the noticeable to most.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Apr 3, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I actually have ADHD as well, forgot to mention that. Though it’s not the noticeable to most.



I had a friend in middle school with that, but I am pretty sure I would have ADD or just Asperger's that was misdiagnosed.


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## Zehlua (Apr 4, 2021)

I'm autistic and just vibing


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 4, 2021)

I'm still desperate for a cure and haven't forgotten about it.


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## ben909 (Apr 4, 2021)

Jaredthefox92 said:


> They ironically thought I had ADD in my early years of elementary school.


Same story , although not for as long


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## Yakamaru (Apr 4, 2021)

Parabellum3 said:


> I have also been claimed that I don’t look autistic. And I think it is because people compare autistic symptoms with that of Down syndrome or any other disabilities that cause mental retardation. However some still see my abnormalities, though they don’t know if it is autism or not.


I find it a form of compliment. For a lot of people you honestly can't tell if they're Autistic. 



Firuthi Dragovic said:


> The very same, the one where some bad experiences have already been shared in this thread.
> 
> I included the fact that autism advocates don't like it AND my take on the whole "wear this at this time" thing being shallow and offensive as a counterbalance.
> 
> That said, outright trashing someone just because they're wearing a certain color at a certain time for awareness campaigns is itself a bit of cult-like scummy behavior.  I cannot and should not tell people how to act in this regard, I can only provide what I make of it.


AS can fuck off like the white knight saviour complex nitwits that they are. 

Treating someone as if they are incapable of thinking for themselves, as if they don't have the emotional and/or intellectual capacity/capability like everyone else, incapable of defending themselves, don't understand what it is that they are doing..The list is long over pretentious fuckery coming from AS. I honestly can't stand being treated as inferior and need a white knight with a saviour complex to come in and "save" me from all things "bad", all because I have Autism. 

As for wearing a colour, I don't see any issues with it, really. People should be free to wear whatever colour they please.


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## Jaredthefox92 (Apr 4, 2021)

ben909 said:


> Same story , although not for as long



The worst part is they put me on Adderall, but I pretended to take it and spat it out for an entire year until I told my parents. At that point they realized the medicine didn't help me and I was able to control myself and focus on school on my own.


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## Crisahitna (Apr 9, 2021)

With me, I was originally diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Disorder when I was really, really young, and then was diagnosed with Aspergers in 8th grade.  I can say from experience that having a social disability doesn't change your personality one bit, so I've done a lot of work on myself personally instead of just focusing on my speech. I never regret my changes one bit. I wish there are more Aspies who are willing to work themselves personally in a mirror and take the motivation to better themselves as a person. Chris Chan, for example. Bless his heart, but he's got a really long way to go; imagine a kid with autism being raised by a narcissistic parent. It never ends well.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 9, 2021)

Crisahitna said:


> With me, I was originally diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Disorder when I was really, really young, and then was diagnosed with Aspergers in 8th grade.  I can say from experience that having a social disability doesn't change your personality one bit, so I've done a lot of work on myself personally instead of just focusing on my speech. I never regret my changes one bit. I wish there are more Aspies who are willing to work themselves personally in a mirror and take the motivation to better themselves as a person. Chris Chan, for example. Bless his heart, but he's got a really long way to go; imagine a kid with autism being raised by a narcissistic parent. It never ends well.


For me it's like a combination of things since autism can develop other mental disorders such as depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD, etc. All of which I have that doesn't help me at all, only makes things worse for me. In your case you don't seem to have these issues, you got lucky there but feel free to prove me wrong. Chris Chan on the other hand got VERY unlucky. His autism is so severe that he has become detached with reality completely, and of course his parents, trolls, and general surroundings greatly contributed to his demise.


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## Netanye Dakabi (Apr 13, 2021)

"autism in the fandom"

...

i thought the entire point was being abmodel.


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## RileyTheOtter (Apr 16, 2021)

AS is a perfect example of something I've been saying for years: We don't suffer _*from* _autism, we suffer from idiots and pretentious pricks _*because*_ of it. Worst part of April is AS does all their stupid ad and donation campaigns in it so people throw money at them naively thinking AS actually wants to help and their donation will let them do that.


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## Bigjackaal48 (May 3, 2021)

Found this a while back


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## Yakamaru (May 3, 2021)

RileyTheOtter said:


> AS is a perfect example of something I've been saying for years: We don't suffer _*from* _autism, we suffer from idiots and pretentious pricks _*because*_ of it. Worst part of April is AS does all their stupid ad and donation campaigns in it so people throw money at them naively thinking AS actually wants to help and their donation will let them do that.


Pretty much. Glad we don't have much in terms of that crap over here. People take mental health seriously from my experience, which have made my life hella easier, of which we've already talked in length and depth on. 

"Individual advocacy, what is that, some sort of obscure dish?"


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## Parabellum3 (May 4, 2021)

Yakamaru said:


> Pretty much. Glad we don't have much in terms of that crap over here. People take mental health seriously from my experience, which have made my life hella easier, of which we've already talked in length and depth on.
> 
> "Individual advocacy, what is that, some sort of obscure dish?"


No one here really gives a flying fuck about mental health unless you’re the quiet kid who snapped.


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## BassFoxBoog (May 4, 2021)

Woo a section for us super duper ASD furs
Aspie and proud for 31 years
Only diagnosed 5 years ago though

You'd  have thunk us asd-ers would be all over the fandom 

Rock and roll


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 18, 2022)

Ayyy it’s that time of year right now for us to embrace, accept, and celebrate(?) autism awareness month! I almost forgot about that shit since like most people don’t give a damn in the first place now do they? Lmao



Now give me my fucking cure already damn it.


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## Troj (Apr 18, 2022)

I've mostly seen posts from people chiding each other on what to call it and how not to celebrate/recognize it.


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## Nexus Cabler (Apr 18, 2022)

I am diagnosed with high functioning autism. It has its ups and downs from my life experience.

On one hand, it makes socializing difficult. I usually have a tough time understanding what people mean with their words, and simultaneously it's tough to express my thoughts through speech in many real-life interactions.

On the other, I'm very good with recognizing patterns, and picking up on certain things. I also tend to think of solving issues differently than I see others do. Sometimes this can yield favorable results.



Troj said:


> I've mostly seen posts from people chiding each other on what to call it and how not to celebrate/recognize it.



Terminology is important because words can have a vast historical background and carry complex social implications. This is why we often change words and phrases we use over time. We all know many examples that we no longer use because they are inaccurate or outright hurtful to some people. People with autism aren't an exception.

Moving on to your other point. In terms of celebrating/recognizing it, we should first and foremost allow people on the spectrum the primary voice. A part of having autism is many of us completely understand what we think and how we feel about scenarios, but we are met with a strong barrier that keeps us from properly formulating those things into words, especially with in person conversations. Considering this, it would help greatly if we looked for more ways to easily communicate with individuals with autism. Perhaps a specialized form of speech, body language, writing, etc.

To give an example, I've developed a way of queuing to my family that I might be overwhelmed or stressed, by raising my hands and shaping them in a way that one would do when they are frustrated and firmly hold their head. It's easy to pick up on and it's helped a lot.


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## The Spirit Guardian (Apr 18, 2022)

I honestly long forgot about it, but back when I was more confused as to why I acted the way I do, and how differently I would see things in stark contrast to other folks, my parents helped shine some light on that situation.

They said I had Autism, yet it was of the higher functioning scale. Granted, while it may not have left me with limited speech, or restricted movement, it leaves for...awkward social interactions, certain inabilities to understand or portray emotions, or confusion of simple things that would otherwise be simple for many others.

They also claim I had a difficulty with transitioning, so much of my scholastic endeavors back then were extensively modified in order to better accommodate my learning speeds. Whilst others were taking normal classes in high school, I had more modified ones to slow the pace, seeing as I could get overwhelmed if things went by too quickly, or if the context was minimal, resulting in lacking performance.

Honestly, I'm still working out most of those issues to this day, though the success rate is...favorable.


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## ben909 (Apr 18, 2022)

ZippyZap said:


> I am diagnosed with high functioning autism. It has its ups and downs from my life experience.
> 
> On one hand, it makes socializing difficult. I usually have a tough time understanding what people mean with their words, and simultaneously it's tough to express my thoughts through speech in many real-life interactions.
> 
> On the other, I'm very good with recognizing patterns, and picking up on certain things. I also tend to think of solving issues differently than I see others do. Sometimes this can yield favorable results.


same story for the most part


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## Yakamaru (Apr 18, 2022)

ZippyZap said:


> I am diagnosed with high functioning autism. It has its ups and downs from my life experience.
> 
> On one hand, it makes socializing difficult. I usually have a tough time understanding what people mean with their words, and simultaneously it's tough to express my thoughts through speech in many real-life interactions.
> 
> On the other, I'm very good with recognizing patterns, and picking up on certain things. I also tend to think of solving issues differently than I see others do. Sometimes this can yield favorable results.


Welcome to the club.



Figuring out the how and why is step one in understanding yourself better. If anything this should open up some doors for you.


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## loups_solitaire (Apr 18, 2022)

So hello. first of all forgive my english it's my second language and i don't master it yet.

First thing : about the term (autism) it attacks me most of the time.(the translation is not exact I can't find the right synonym)

let me explain. I was diagnosed with TED-non-specified when I was ten years old. the psychiatrist, I think that was his title. at least he was a specialist, he and his team.
they explained to us that basically I had something like this but that they couldn't be more precise. I corresponded to certain criteria of several categories but not all the time. they were specialists and they didn't understand anything about my brain. its gives an idea of how I am (special).
he even wanted to launch a research project based on me because he found my case atypical, but I digress


so originally the term "T.E.D" stands for Pervasive Behavioral Disorder. (the translation probably shreds it/ it is "trouble envahissant du développement" )
for me it suited me. it represented the impact it had on my life. its an obstacle.

then, the appointment evolved into TSA. for autism spectrum disorder (trouble du spectre de l'autisme). they have grouped the whole family under the same term.

I have nothing against simplification for the purpose of understanding or shortening that allows for better understanding. I understand everyone has done everything and I don't resent anyone using the term autistic.

only for me especially when I have to use this term to describe myself. it attacks me. I do not follow autism. I tick a lot of boxes in many mental health categories, but I'm not autistic. I have friends who are autistic (specifically) and it's different. I do not use them and they are not me. the challenges imposed on us by this condition are diametrically opposed.
I don't take it as an insult either. but as soon as people hear the term autistic. they have an image in the head and this image does not correspond to me. it makes things hard to explain because they have a preconceived idea.
that was my little rant about the terminology.

second point : the cure 
I'm going to be a bit harsh but that's my feeling. I preferred to be shot rather than take a remedy. as said earlier in this channel. it is not an illness. it is a functioning. the image that I use is that my brain does not wire the same way as the others. it operates under a different OS and processes information differently.
however it is not a disease. this condition cannot be resolved. if by theoretical miracle I could be cured. healing me would simply mean killing the person I follow to place one who is better suited to society. If you change the way I perceive the world and the way information is processed, you change who I am. so society (peut aller ce faire voir )
they're going to have to tolerate me for as long as I'm here. remedy or not.
I am not against drug treatment I have always been on medication. and for a long time I had this worry that the drugs were changing me. but I was wrong. it doesn't change the way I think or my opinions. they simply serve to slow down my flow of thought to channel it and treat other disorders that affect me. for example hyper activity and attention deficit.
there is no cure for autism. Whether I like it or not I'm stuck with it


Which brings me to my third point. I read the 15 pages of this channel and I was slightly shocked by something. However, you are all entitled to your opinion and I don't blame anyone for that, but I would like to assert mine.

So third point: measure adaptation and accommodation
I am sorry to contradict some but in fact society is obliged to adapt to the individual. when a rule of human rights says "Education is considered a fundamental right in Canada and in international human rights law. It is a right that no one should unreasonably be deprived for reasons of gender, ethnic origin, disability or age."
sources : https://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/m12/enfdi...ion est considérée comme,de handicap ou d'âge.

and that even without the specification for people who are handicapped.
whether the right to education or housing is a human right. being disabled or black or gay does not make you less human. therefore society must adapt to respect its own rule.
because if she decides that my condition becomes an exception and that it is no longer a right, what will be the next exception. political orientation family ties. it is for her that the rights are absolute. (obviously in this context. I would not approach freedom of expression).

(the use of the term disability. (is due to the translation this is not intended to be offensive to anyone)

fourth point: play your card

So yes there are pros and cons. a lot of cons I have to admit.
however, the philosophy of death is the finality so why drag on. I can't let this pass. I had this philosophy at one time. when I was 5 years old which led me to my first attempt at suicide. let's say that new trauma for my parents is something. Already at that time I had understood that life was a long journey filled with suffering and extremely difficult.
it was one of the indicators that told my parents that there was something wrong with me.
I wasn't a stupid kid who didn't know what death meant. I was plainly aware of the finality she represented.

I was followed for years by several times a week and by many specialists before having my diagnosis at ten years old.

when I finally got them. I had 4 suicide attempts and 3 murder attempts. it gives an idea. the only reason I'm still following it is that I was too stupid to be able to kill myself. I tried but didn't know how to do it. my memories are vague, but I still have a few scraps.
Despite all that, I'm still here.

sorry it turns out a bit dark. I will end this part and move on to the next one. but on the whole despite the trials. life is worth living and it's the lows that make the highs wonderful.I might develop another time. but I don't want to put too much 
ps :  (I'm fine. I'm happy and haven't been suicidal for a very long time).

fifth point: représentation 
don't worry i'm almost done speaking. 

so in terms of representation or showing off as autistic (I still don't like that word). 
I never hide my condition. I have to say that I didn't really have a choice. Since I was 11 I have not really had the right words. but




I have been accompanied by an assistance dog since that time. so in terms of being discreet, it's dead.
however this dog. Kwanzaa saved me. she accompanied me for ten years. I would never go through primary, secondary and CEGEP.(the school system is different in quebec)
and everything in normal class. no specialized or adapted class.
I am particularly proud of it. because it was not easy. I keep fighting for each of these degrees

my parents when I received my diagnosis were convinced that I could not finish high school. and today accompanied by my new dog I am following my engineering degree.

I was one of the first among the research projects. and well the beginning I made. "promotion" is not the right term.
from the beginning I proudly display myself accompanied by what I can only describe as my soul. 
I promote, popularize to talk about my experience of how it helps me in the hope that it helps someone else. I haven't done it for a while, but I've done TV radio interviews, I've been on several newspapers.
and even if I must admit to having enjoyed being in the spotlight, it's not the most important fight I've had.
the fight that is most important is the one that I lead every day. by showing that it is not because I have this label that I am incapable.
and in my case I also have to fight to go everywhere. even if the law allows me to have my dog at any time regardless of the location. it does not mean that everyone is aware of it and that you will not be prevented from entering. Well since I was 11 years old, I have been angry with police officers, managers, school principals. at the beginning it was not me but my mother who made them understand that if they violated my rights. they were going to pay it a hundredfold in a court of law.
now its me. I would fight whoever wants to deprive me of my rights and this fight I do not lead it only for me. I lead it in part for all those like me who have a dog but who don't necessarily have my arrogance and impertinence. I do it for those who can't fight and make their voices heard.

with all that I digress. so display like (you know).
I think it's important. we must show the world and educate the population. Of course if you're not in a safe environment to show off or if you just don't feel comfortable with it, you don't have to. it is precisely for people like you that I do this. for most of us dont look like().

but for me yes it is obvious. It is difficult to hide a wheelchair just like a dog. so I decided to make it a pride.
if this decision allows at least one person to be better treated or understood by his entourage. it would have been worth it.

if you have any criticism, questions or disagreements about what I said, I am ready to hear everything. whether in the channel or PM

I think I have covered the topics I wanted to discuss. I will try to revise all of this before sending it. I hope it will be readable.


ps: I would have liked to quote some person or refer to what he said but I don't know very well how to do it yet
and here is a link to the mira site for those who are interested : https://www.mira.ca/en/
encore désoler si c'est ilisible 


thank you for coming to my TED talk

one day I will hold a panel or do an interview with this title.


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## loups_solitaire (Apr 18, 2022)

I forgot to mention the subject of the channel. so I think that indeed this kind of subculture attracts outcasts. and that in addition this kind of channel allows us to find ourselves in a way. it is possible that the proportion is higher than elsewhere but I don't think you're worried about that. it is a question of visibility. if we feel comfortable in an environment we will be more inclined to let ourselves be approached and reach out to others. if you meet more people by statistical logic you meet more (NA) and they are the ones you remember. because you have a direct point in common.
here is my opinion/analysis


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## a sleepy kitty (Apr 18, 2022)

I was recently diagnosed with mild ASD in the beginning of this year.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 18, 2022)

I feel like a lot of people misinterpret my desire for a cure. They think that I am trying to force everyone to go with it even if they are happy as they are. Which I totally get since Autism is an entire spectrum of things. You could be someone either like Einstein, a blood thirsty psychopath, or one of these _people _that are incapable of doing anything and are literal sacks of flesh and bone just existing.

I simply want one for myself, because I am not happy at where I stand because of its impact on my life. I wish to be different in a much better way. I care less what other people think about themselves and what they want. But hey, even if the process goes horribly wrong, at least my name could go down into the history books as at least trying to contribute to a better society.


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## ben909 (Apr 18, 2022)

"and so, we all ended up here online on faf"


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## Bigjackaal48 (Apr 21, 2022)

Really love how badly the Autism community is reacting to 5 studies backing that Psychotic episodes are common. Had someone on Twitter tell me they can't be classed as Autistic cause of It despite fitting 100%?.


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## Nexus Cabler (Apr 21, 2022)

Bigjackaal48 said:


> Really love how badly the Autism community is reacting to 5 studies backing that Psychotic episodes are common. Had someone on Twitter tell me they can't be classed as Autistic cause of It despite fitting 100%?.


I'm not upset or against these findings, but I think I can understand the reactions.

It may be because people who don't have autism are likely to use these studies to discriminate towards or mistreat them.

I'm not denying that these studies are factual and proven. I'm willing to agree they are, but some people on the spectrum have experienced bullying, and sometimes people will use statistics or findings against a group of people they may not like.

For instance, A person who would use crime statistics to try and justify being mean towards a black individual they come across, or people that use suicide rates of trans people as a way to taunt or harass them.


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## Bigjackaal48 (Apr 21, 2022)

ZippyZap said:


> I'm not upset or against these findings, but I think I can understand the reactions.
> 
> It may be because people who don't have autism are likely to use these studies to discriminate towards or mistreat them.
> 
> ...


True, point out any Schizophrenic moment in a Autistic suddenly people get quite hostile. I've even had my mum admit that she struggles to see the difference when asked.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 22, 2022)

Bigjackaal48 said:


> Really love how badly the Autism community is reacting to 5 studies backing that Psychotic episodes are common. Had someone on Twitter tell me they can't be classed as Autistic cause of It despite fitting 100%?.


A good portion of them are delusional. A common symptom of autism. I used to be that way too.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 22, 2022)

Bigjackaal48 said:


> Really love how badly the Autism community is reacting to 5 studies backing that Psychotic episodes are common. Had someone on Twitter tell me they can't be classed as Autistic cause of It despite fitting 100%?.


"Autism community"?

Mental health issues isn't exactly uncommon and is more common in Autistic people. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 22, 2022)

Today at a lecture some autistic guy was making constant loud burps from the Pepsi he drank. Not sure if he was doing it deliberately or he simply did not have the capacity to understand how inappropriate his behavior was. So talk about decency and self-acceptance in that regard…


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## Bigjackaal48 (Apr 23, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> A good portion of them are delusional. A common symptom of autism. I used to be that way too.


Yeah I noticed that as well since a lot would openly refuse to read them or just implode while trolling. Also It great way to expose fakers too since I've caught a few raging at how they'll need to go see a doctor. I can't count how many I've claiming they hate Ableism then 180 at this news.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 24, 2022)

Autistic people – The cultural immune system of human societies
					

Click your language to read: English / Français / Español / Deutsch / 中文 / 日本語 / 한국어 / עברית / فارسی / العربية / русский / Azərbaycanca / Català / Česky / Eesti / Eλληνικά / Filipino / Indonesian /…




					autcollab.org
				




A rather good and interesting read someone else sent me.


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## Smityyyy (Apr 24, 2022)

Bigjackaal48 said:


> Really love how badly the Autism community is reacting to 5 studies backing that Psychotic episodes are common. Had someone on Twitter tell me they can't be classed as Autistic cause of It despite fitting 100%?.



The thing is, there’s numerous conditions that can lead to psychotic episodes. Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Drug Abuse Disorder, Anxiety Disorders, Dissociative Disorders, etc etc

I could go on but you get the point. Diagnosis should be left to the professionals as it’s very difficult to analyze all of a person’s symptoms and accurately diagnose it. Many symptoms are present broadly across disorders. Psychosis is also not a very common symptom of ASD. It’s much more common in other disorders. Also comorbidities make it even harder to accurately pinpoint which disorder is causing which symptoms. Psychosis accompanying ASD is more common as a comorbid symptom anyhow.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 25, 2022)

Interesting series on Autism that I've started watching.


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## Smityyyy (Apr 25, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Interesting series on Autism that I've started watching.


Question for you as I’m sure you wouldn’t mind it coming from me but feel free to shoot me a DM if this isn’t something you’d want asked publicly…

What was the first “sign” of autism you noticed in yourself? Or what tipped you off? If not something else? Hope I’m not intruding just genuinely curious to hear from someone on this.


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## Filter (Apr 25, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Autistic people – The cultural immune system of human societies
> 
> 
> Click your language to read: English / Français / Español / Deutsch / 中文 / 日本語 / 한국어 / עברית / فارسی / العربية / русский / Azərbaycanca / Català / Česky / Eesti / Eλληνικά / Filipino / Indonesian /…
> ...





Yakamaru said:


> Interesting series on Autism that I've started watching.


Disclaimer: Contrarian views ahead! I am not a licensed psychologist. What I'm about to say is my own speculative opinion, and subject to change.


While I appreciate the sentiment expressed in videos and articles like this, I'm not convinced that they are examples of autism. Whenever I've encountered people holding such views, they've either said or done things that demonstrate a high degree of intelligence. Having a sharp mind is the commonality, in my opinion, rather than being autistic.

It seems to me that there is confusion over the fact that autistic people can be just as bright, creative, and compassionate as anybody else. They can, which may come as a surprise to those who don't know better, but that doesn't mean that these traits are signs of autism.

Lots of people care about fairness and justice, and such people often face opposition. Lack of autism doesn't make somebody unscrupulous or an NPC. It also doesn't mean that they'll conform to the status quo.

10-20 years ago, people were saying similar things about ADHD. Suggesting that Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison must have had attention deficit hyperactivity disorder because they were different. It seems to me that their differences were mostly due to the fact that they had extraordinary aptitude, which can lead down all sorts of rabbit holes. Society tends to beat down any kind of difference whether physical, intellectual, or ideological. Unfortunately, this can make life unnecessarily difficult for people with autism, but they're not the only ones. Having autism, much like having ADHD, isn't the only way to deviate from the norm.

Lately, I've wondered if this pathologizing of arguably beneficial traits might be a form of disinformation. Designed to make people doubt themselves, and therefore easier to pigeonhole and control. I'm not suggesting that it necessarily is the case, but it seems to me that it would be more empowering to view these differences as healthy. Using autism as an umbrella diagnosis seems counterproductive to me. Not merely lazy, but potentially harmful.

On the other hand, if an autism diagnosis gives someone tools to improve their life, that's awesome. I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of the opportunity to become their best self, but i do think we should be more careful about how we label things. Along with those who function reasonably well within society, there are those who face steeper developmental challenges, and they risk getting overlooked, or even feeling like an imposter, if the term is too broadly applied.


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## Nexus Cabler (Apr 25, 2022)

Filter said:


> Disclaimer: Contrarian views ahead! I am not a licensed psychologist. What I'm about to say is my own speculative opinion, and subject to change.
> 
> 
> While I appreciate the sentiment expressed in videos and articles like this, I'm not convinced that they are examples of autism. Whenever I've encountered people holding such views, they've either said or done things that demonstrate a high degree of intelligence. Having a sharp mind is the commonality, in my opinion, rather than being autistic.
> ...


I don't find your opinion that controversial. I think it's a fair thing to question because you are considering past ideas and diagnoses of prominent individuals, and how we sometimes realize our misunderstandings of things we took as factual a decade or two ago. I also hold some personal skepticisms when reading things, not out of denial, but more so a behavior of asking further questions.


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## Bigjackaal48 (Apr 25, 2022)

Filter said:


> Disclaimer: Contrarian views ahead! I am not a licensed psychologist. What I'm about to say is my own speculative opinion, and subject to change.
> 
> 
> While I appreciate the sentiment expressed in videos and articles like this, I'm not convinced that they are examples of autism. Whenever I've encountered people holding such views, they've either said or done things that demonstrate a high degree of intelligence. Having a sharp mind is the commonality, in my opinion, rather than being autistic.
> ...



Autism not a learning disorder no idea why that still sticks since they've binned the HFA & LFA terms?. You can get bright people with severe autism who can be both independent & semi independent. I've had a few on Reddit & Twitter(less harsh) claim I must be lying about being severe if I can use a PC & post online?, Which oddly seem to flare up when I posted the 6 studies about Autism being a psychotic condition.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 25, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Question for you as I’m sure you wouldn’t mind it coming from me but feel free to shoot me a DM if this isn’t something you’d want asked publicly…
> 
> What was the first “sign” of autism you noticed in yourself? Or what tipped you off? If not something else? Hope I’m not intruding just genuinely curious to hear from someone on this.


Hmm, good question. Autism vary extremely from person to person, same goes for when they find out, so..

Back as a kid I always felt.. different. Potentially.. "Out of place" in a sense and were a bit of an outcast. The differences were always observable especially on the social front but I had no way to explain any of it let alone describe that.. feeling, as it were, of being different. 

I would notice patterns that to me felt easy to observe and perceive and in some cases obvious but I got very mixed results when talking with others about these same patterns when trying to explain them/point them out. Sometimes after an explanation I would get a "Oh yeah, I see it now. That's interesting" or something along those lines while other times I would get "I don't know where you are going with this" or something along the lines of "I don't recognize anything here".


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## Smityyyy (Apr 25, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> Hmm, good question. Autism vary extremely from person to person, same goes for when they find out, so..
> 
> Back as a kid I always felt.. different. Potentially.. "Out of place" in a sense and were a bit of an outcast. The differences were always observable especially on the social front but I had no way to explain any of it let alone describe that.. feeling, as it were, of being different.
> 
> I would notice patterns that to me felt easy to observe and perceive and in some cases obvious but I got very mixed results when talking with others about these same patterns when trying to explain them/point them out. Sometimes after an explanation I would get a "Oh yeah, I see it now. That's interesting" or something along those lines while other times I would get "I don't know where you are going with this" or something along the lines of "I don't recognize anything here".


Appreciate the response. I’ll give a more thorough response to this after I get off of work.


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 26, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Question for you as I’m sure you wouldn’t mind it coming from me but feel free to shoot me a DM if this isn’t something you’d want asked publicly…
> 
> What was the first “sign” of autism you noticed in yourself? Or what tipped you off? If not something else? Hope I’m not intruding just genuinely curious to hear from someone on this.


First thing I noticed personally is the fidgeting. I still do it to this day whenever I have some thought that makes me excited, it’s as if excess dopamine is getting released in my head. Also I can’t ever properly look at people in the eyes for at least 5 minutes.


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## Pomorek (Apr 26, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Question for you as I’m sure you wouldn’t mind it coming from me but feel free to shoot me a DM if this isn’t something you’d want asked publicly…
> 
> What was the first “sign” of autism you noticed in yourself? Or what tipped you off? If not something else? Hope I’m not intruding just genuinely curious to hear from someone on this.


I've always had inappropriately strong and often misdirected emotional reactions. I'm struggling with it to this day (hello, anxiety attacks...). And if I'm allowed to say, I'm underperforming HORRIBLY in comparison to what my intellect could allow - precisely because I'm often "out of commission" from all the affective storms. 

I've also been frequently coming up with - and acting upon - ideas that made everyone around go like, WTF is even wrong with you dude? Dunno, it looks logical to me!... It took me decades to learn what is appropriate and what isn't, and I feel this all has left me very inhibited in the end. Because now I'm viewing my behavior with a huge dose of suspicion, and every new action requires analysis first, does it conform to the outside world's logic or not?


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## MaetheDragon (Apr 26, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Question for you as I’m sure you wouldn’t mind it coming from me but feel free to shoot me a DM if this isn’t something you’d want asked publicly…
> 
> What was the first “sign” of autism you noticed in yourself? Or what tipped you off? If not something else? Hope I’m not intruding just genuinely curious to hear from someone on this.



For me, I think I have more obvious signs, as autism is often hard to diagnose for girls because they mask so well. I often don’t make eye contact when I’m supposed to, and I sometimes have really bad meltdowns. My family also points out little behaviors that I do, my interests and my fixation on them as signs of autism.

So a combination of factors tipped me off to me having autism.


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## Smityyyy (Apr 27, 2022)

Wow I got more responses than I expected.

First off, I appreciate all of you guys taking the time to reply and share about such a personal topic. I commend all of you. Secondly, thanks for the insight. Sometimes it helps to get to hear every individual’s personal experience.

Very interesting to hear some of the common themes between all of you — as well as the noticeable differences. Also @MCtheBeardie that is very interesting what you mention about autism being harder to identify in women. I notice many mental health disorders are treated this way. ADHD is another big one that doesn’t get adequate attention with women. Lack of psychiatric care toward women over years has lead to less thorough diagnostics.

Thanks again everyone!


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## Parabellum3 (Apr 27, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Very interesting to hear some of the common themes between all of you — as well as the noticeable differences. Also @MCtheBeardie that is very interesting what you mention about autism being harder to identify in women. I notice many mental health disorders are treated this way. ADHD is another big one that doesn’t get adequate attention with women. Lack of psychiatric care toward women over years has lead to less thorough diagnostics.


I do believe that is a result of an overwhelming number of male to female ratio of those having autism, that being 4:1 or 36.5 per 1000 for men and only 8.8 per 1000 for women. So yeah gentlemen, we are somewhat screwed.


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## Finn ^w^ (Apr 27, 2022)

Meh, I'm not too autistic, I just managed to get a pretty bad case of aspergers. It's hard trying to explain to people why I can't even make eye-contact with them as a grown ass adult. Got diagnosed when i was a little kid I'm alabama, and having been a navy kid to a very important man in the navy, I moved way too much to make friends. And so, I've been a loner all my life and used the internet to cope. And yet my parents use to say it was just an excuse for me being lazy. 

I also have REALLYYYY bad ADHD. Thought race through my head at like Mach 7, and simply existing can be a sensory overload for me. Focus is not an option of mine.


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## MaetheDragon (Apr 27, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> I do believe that is a result of an overwhelming number of male to female ratio of those having autism, that being 4:1 or 36.5 per 1000 for men and only 8.8 per 1000 for women. So yeah gentlemen, we are somewhat screwed.


This is also true! It’s a combination of factors that makes it hard for women to be diagnosed with autism. I was diagnosed professionally practically since birth, so I guess I’m special in that regard, according to other autistic women.


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## Universe (Apr 27, 2022)

I have autism


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## Firuthi Dragovic (Apr 27, 2022)

Smityyyy said:


> Question for you as I’m sure you wouldn’t mind it coming from me but feel free to shoot me a DM if this isn’t something you’d want asked publicly…
> 
> What was the first “sign” of autism you noticed in yourself? Or what tipped you off? If not something else? Hope I’m not intruding just genuinely curious to hear from someone on this.


Honestly, it's kind of hard for me to tell my first signs.  I grew up thinking a number obsession, some of the fatigue things, the utter inability to handle the slightest change, my complete inability to read when I was being taken advantage of (yeah, that's actually a TREMENDOUS biggie with autistic people, often stemming from social skills difficulties)... was NORMAL.

It wasn't until my twenties when I figured it out, and I'm still not sure what my first clue was.  My family noticed it way sooner.

And I also grew up at the very tail end of an era where autism was considered a point of no return (this was before that period where Asperger's was considered separate - I'd have been about 8-9 when that was added to the DSM-IV).  So it wasn't exactly spoken of much when I was little.


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## Yakamaru (Apr 28, 2022)

__





						Me and Monotropism: A unified theory of autism - The British Psychological Society
					






					thepsychologist.bps.org.uk
				



"Me and Monotropism: A unified theory of autism"
^ From a friend of mine who live in Wales.

Do note that everything I've linked are from other Autistic people, who have had far more time in.. understanding how to live and thrive with this aspect in life, and not to be taken as "this is how everyone who are Autistic thinks/feels/perceive the world" and more in the direction of personal experiences and perspectives and various theories based around Autism as a topic.


Filter said:


> Disclaimer: Contrarian views ahead! I am not a licensed psychologist. What I'm about to say is my own speculative opinion, and subject to change.
> 
> While I appreciate the sentiment expressed in videos and articles like this, I'm not convinced that they are examples of autism. Whenever I've encountered people holding such views, they've either said or done things that demonstrate a high degree of intelligence. Having a sharp mind is the commonality, in my opinion, rather than being autistic.
> 
> ...


Pardon the late reply. Been very busy at work as we've needed overtime for like 4 weeks now. Been slowly working on a reply over the past couple of days.

I appreciate the interest in the topic, and I am no stranger to contrarian perspectives/takes as you probably already know. You're more than welcome to join the conversation. It's both fair and reasonable to ask questions, especially on a topic as.. broad and deep as this, not to mention is still very unknown. Another factor to take into consideration of course is the idea that Autism as an actual research topic is also rather new relatively speaking.

Why are you not convinced these people are examples of people with Autism if you don't mind my asking? Anything in particular that sticks out?

Being bright, creative and/or compassionate in and of themselves aren't Autistic traits. Having a strong specific trait does not mean one is Autistic either, though at what if you go beyond the normal thresholds though? At what point is Autism an explanation, albeit possibly partially, for some trait or a couple that exceed normal thresholds?









						Autism & high intelligence | Embrace Autism
					

Intelligence in autistic people can be highly polarized; both intellectual disability and giftedness are more common in autism than in the general public.




					embrace-autism.com
				



Here's an interesting article that goes into the IQ of people with Autism. They have a tendency to be less centered around the average and more spread towards the lower and higher ends of the spectrum. Several studies indicate that Autism is a bit of a wildcard in a sense that it can make things more extreme, and one of the reasons you see far more Autistic people on the sub-85 IQ and over 115 IQ compared to the general population. Though keep in mind that this trend in IQ may be in spite of people having Autism and not caused by having Autism, but it would be an interesting study regardless. Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison I would say just had high aptitude. Nicola Tesla though might at least have had Asperger's going by all the reports, documentaries, etc, that I've seen of the guy.

And yes, I don't disagree that pathologizing potentially beneficial traits may be a form of manipulation. I've seen it myself on several occasions and experienced it first-hand. I've had people treat me differently on the basis of having Autism as if it's some sort of purely negative trait. Differently as in if I have less intelligence, less capabilities, etc, than that of someone who is "neurotypical", or someone who don't have Autism. These said people tried to talk me down or the very least indirectly said that I am less capable than them.

Autism is a kind of a wildcard that adds another potential factor to take into consideration and the differences in personalities with those who have it are way more easy to observe than the people who are neurotypicals. I don't use Autism or neurotypical as positive or negative terms, they are used as neutral descriptors and left up for people to interpret what they want to from their own perspectives. Some will perceive it as positive, others will perceive it as negative, while others again such as myself may perceive it in a neutral manner.

If Autism isn't to be used as a more umbrella term, what would you use instead if you don't mind my asking? I am all for treating people as people and to show respect in that regard, and differences ought to be celebrated or the very least acknowledged and accepted. Defining things such as for instance Autism can and will help people with explaining how they behave, act, perceive things, etc. Personally I am extremely grateful for having been officially diagnosed as it's helped me tremendously in understanding myself, which in turn have made it incredibly easier to communicate with people and those that I care about.

If one does not understand oneself, how are one to understand others? How are one to know what one want let alone desire?


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## Filter (May 9, 2022)

Yakamaru said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Why am I not convinced that all of these people have autism? Partly because the older, more extreme, definition is still the first one that comes to mind. Terminology evolves over time, however, so I'm trying to embrace the newer way of looking at autism as a spectrum. I'm not quite there yet. Perhaps I will be someday. Also, it seems to me that things like culture, temperament, intelligence, parenting techniques, and life experiences may better explain the milder side of the spectrum. And if they do, then are we really talking about the same underlying thing? If not, perhaps different labels might be more appropriate. Between the change in definitions and multiple potential underlying causes, I'm hesitant to lump them into the same category.

Unfortunately, I don't have a suggestion for better terminology. I'm tempted to be granular as possible with some of these issues, because then we'd be closer to the ground truth. Then again, that isn't always the most efficient or helpful approach.

According to online tests, my autism quotient is around the low to mid 20s. That's higher than average, but below the score of 32 that most diagnosed individuals get. I can relate to certain things, like preferring one-on-one interaction to group settings, not liking interruption, recognizing patterns, and being sensitive to environmental factors. Is this really autism though, or better explained as introversion? I've always been good at reading faces and figuring out somebody's intentions, for instance, but that doesn't mean I enjoy most social interactions. Eye contact has never been an issue. Although I don't hand-flap, I do pace from time to time. If I don't have autism, does that mean I'm necessarily neurotypical? If I'm not neurotypical, does that necessarily mean that I have autism? There are many ways to draw the Venn diagram.

I genuinely don't know the answer, and I haven't stopped looking. This is one more possibility to investigate. For years, I've read about psychology, personality types, learning preferences, and a variety of other theories in an attempt to better understand why I am the way that I am. I'm also aware of a tendency to want to cast my differences in a more positive light than may be warranted. Oh, my sensitivity and intelligence must be why I'm such a weirdo. Riiiight. There are people who are smarter and more sensitive than myself who don't have the same quirks. Self understanding is important, but it may take me a long time to draw a conclusion. I prefer it this way, as I don’t like being pressured into things. Is that, in and of itself, a sign of mild autism? That remains to be seen. XD


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## Bigjackaal48 (May 10, 2022)

Filter said:


> Why am I not convinced that all of these people have autism? Partly because the older, more extreme, definition is still the first one that comes to mind. Terminology evolves over time, however, so I'm trying to embrace the newer way of looking at autism as a spectrum. I'm not quite there yet. Perhaps I will be someday. Also, it seems to me that things like culture, temperament, intelligence, parenting techniques, and life experiences may better explain the milder side of the spectrum. And if they do, then are we really talking about the same underlying thing? If not, perhaps different labels might be more appropriate. Between the change in definitions and multiple potential underlying causes, I'm hesitant to lump them into the same category.


Because ignored symptoms is a thing?. Before the 90s what was Classic autism & the mild version it was named early onset schizophrenia, All they did was stop checking for delusions & psychosis but the ASD-P really challenges on wither they should've removed Asperger's/Autism from the schizophrenia spectrum. I too have this grim feeling a lot of people who are classed as mildly autistic might have some other disorder or mild PD since /r/Autism once tried claiming ADHD is just weak Autism without any backing. The same people were having a collective rage out at the DSM-V tighting up on diagnosing people.

I've the same feeling with ADHD It really just Cyclothymia type II but doctors just ignore the bipolar symptoms or word them in way that sounds different. Since ADHD meds like stimulants actually can reduce bipolar symptoms by 85 ~ 100% with not all of them getting mania, Eg ; 36mg Concerta.


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## Kope (May 10, 2022)

I wish I didn't have it maybe then I'd have a close group of support in my life


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## Parabellum3 (May 10, 2022)

Kope said:


> I wish I didn't have it maybe then I'd have a close group of support in my life


Me too buddy, me too…


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> That is true. The main thing I'm worried about though is that since this fandom is already under enough scrutiny as it is, it will paint a worse picture on us since we are stereo typically compared to furries plus assume that most autistics are them. So I'm hoping that won't be the case.


homie,if anything is going to impact furry rep it's all the animal fuckers not the autistics. once the fandom learns to keep it in their pants,i'll bet public perception will smile a lot kinder on us as a LGBT heavy,very welcoming of all kinds fandom. we'll be the canada of fandoms (coming from a canadian). trust me: the autism ain't the problem,it's the degenerates.


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## ConorHyena (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> homie,if anything is going to impact furry rep it's all the animal fuckers not the autistics. once the fandom learns to keep it in their pants,i'll bet public perception will smile a lot kinder on us as a LGBT heavy,very welcoming of all kinds fandom. we'll be the canada of fandoms (coming from a canadian). trust me: the autism ain't the problem,it's the degenerates.


I don't think the problem is NSFW, I think the problem is the welcoming parts of the fandom, which unfortunately also very much likes to normalize predatory behaviour.

Regardless of that I do agree - I do not think autism (or other, similar things) are going to be a problem for the fandom's reputation. Also I advise against worrying about what others think about one's hobby in general. It's not particularely productive.


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

ConorHyena said:


> I don't think the problem is NSFW, I think the problem is the welcoming parts of the fandom, which unfortunately also very much likes to normalize predatory behaviour.
> 
> Regardless of that I do agree - I do not think autism (or other, similar things) are going to be a problem for the fandom's reputation. Also I advise against worrying about what others think about one's hobby in general. It's not particularely productive.


the problem is the some of the stuff the fandom is willing to tolerate. at some point we decided that everyone is welcome but that's a double-edged sword and we let too many people get away with too much to the point that THOSE are the people that people outside the fandom are seeing and judging us on. granted,you're right that we shouldn't care either way what anyone thinks but we also can't complain when what people think is mostly negative since that's the only part they're seeing and we allow it to happen. all and all at some point we need to take responsibility for our own rep as a community: if we want people to see how friendly and creative we can be,we need to make sure that it's the side of us they're being exposed to the most. we're all the ambassadors of our fandoms so if we want our fandom to look good,we have to in turn act the part.


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## ConorHyena (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> so if we want our fandom to look good


I'm aware this is a tangent and I apologise - 

But in the end that brings us to the definition 'what is good' and that's where the viewpoints start to diverge (SFW vs NSFW, LGBT vs straight etc) and imo that is the problem.

and now to arc back to the original topic at hand - the question is more akin to "what is normal?" and that has been the long-standing discussion point when it comes to mental issues.


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

ConorHyena said:


> I'm aware this is a tangent and I apologise -
> 
> But in the end that brings us to the definition 'what is good' and that's where the viewpoints start to diverge (SFW vs NSFW, LGBT vs straight etc) and imo that is the problem.
> 
> and now to arc back to the original topic at hand - the question is more akin to "what is normal?" and that has been the long-standing discussion point when it comes to mental issues.


no fandom is perfect but problem with the furry fandom is that we seem to have a worse rep than most other fandoms and in this day and age,our more welcoming side could be looked at VERY highly (very few people these days can hate on a fandom that openly accepts every walk of life so long as it's not harmful.....looking at you,nazi furs). all people currently see is our fetish side (and with utter degenerates like..ugh..."kero the wolf" still finding a place in this fandom you really can't blame anyone for thinking that this is just one,giant fetish party) so if we want to improve our image we gotta get out there and show them that there is a lot more to us than JUST that. 

but as for the original topic,though i certainly don't blame OP for worrying about it and i'm glad they have found us because we really are top-notch when it comes to inclusion of all types. to address the question of "what is normal",though the thing is that NOTHING is "normal". the things that are normal for some are not normal to others (case in point: it is normal in some cultures for someone's parents to live with their adult children until death while in other cultures it would be deemed very ABNORMAL) so if nothing is normal,that means everything is. trust me,as someone with BPD i get it but all and all NONE of us are "normal" nor is anyone else in any other group of people (what's "normal" about sitting in front of the TV all day to watch a football game while yelling at the screen? it's weird when you think about it yet MILLIONS of people do it every,single year without batting a eye). even compared to the animal kingdom,humanity is just a giant group of freaks that do cringy things like create money and then use that money to buy food/water instead of just going out and finding it for free in nature (if animals could judge us that deeply,this is EXACTLY the kind of thing we'd be judged for).XD point is that autistic or not,we're all freaks and that's a good thing because life would be dull as hell if we were all built the same. variety is the spice of life.


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## Parabellum3 (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> homie,if anything is going to impact furry rep it's all the animal fuckers not the autistics. once the fandom learns to keep it in their pants,i'll bet public perception will smile a lot kinder on us as a LGBT heavy,very welcoming of all kinds fandom. we'll be the canada of fandoms (coming from a canadian). trust me: the autism ain't the problem,it's the degenerates.


Aren't they autistic as well though?


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> Aren't they autistic as well though?


nah,just degenerate as all hell.


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## Parabellum3 (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> nah,just degenerate as all hell.


Something caused them to be that way.


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> Something caused them to be that way.


bad genes,mate.  autistic folk are just wired a little differently but animal fuckers are straight up defective down to the core.


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## Parabellum3 (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> bad genes,mate.  autistic folk are just wired a little differently but animal fuckers are straight up defective down to the core.


Autism is also connected with having bad genes, though at least not in the way they have it but it varies.


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> Autism is also connected with having bad genes, though at least not in the way they have it but it varies.


but you can be autistic and still be a good person: saying a animal fucker can be a good person is like saying a rock can give birth.


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## Parabellum3 (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> but you can be autistic and still be a good person: saying a animal fucker can be a good person is like saying a rock can give birth.


Well yes, but my point is autism could lead to someone becoming an animal fucker, as well as potential serial killers since it has the capability to formulate secondary illnesses such as psychopathy, depression, anxiety, etc.


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

but to be fair,so could anyone. i could be a depressed serial killer with anxiety and you'd never even know it.>:3


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## Parabellum3 (May 10, 2022)

QueenSekhmet said:


> but to be fair,so could anyone. i could be a depressed serial killer with anxiety and you'd never even know it.>:3


That is true. But fandom wise, since a great majority of the members are autistic, then it is likely so that the animal fuckers have it as well unfortunately.


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## QueenSekhmet (May 10, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> That is true. But fandom wise, since a great majority of the members are autistic, then it is likely so that the animal fuckers have it as well unfortunately.


possibly. but sadly there is no way to actually know for sure (and even if we did,what could we actually do about it?) since we can't exactly take a furry censes and get a collective of all the furs with autism compared to all the one's that are just degenerates.


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## Troj (May 10, 2022)

Re: Problem people and behaviors in the fandom, it comes down to Popper's Paradox---in order to create a free, open, tolerant space, we need to be willing and able to draw a hard line at beliefs and behaviors that would threaten that free, open, tolerant space and the people in it. The very idea of this can be incredibly triggering and anxiety-inducing to people who are used to exclusion being done out of bigotry and malice against vulnerable people whose only crime is just being weird or different.

Re: toxic autistic people, I'd say that autism is one potential _risk factor _that can  become problematic or dangerous _when combined with certain other risk factors, _but that it's fallacious, harmful, wrong, and reductionist to think that autism by itself makes you a serial killer, school shooter, sex pest, incel, or what have you.


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## ConorHyena (May 11, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> That is true. But fandom wise, since a great majority of the members are autistic, then it is likely so that the animal fuckers have it as well unfortunately.


I would challenge this assumption. I would go so far as to say that there is a higher prevalence of autistic people in the fandom than in an average group, but I wouldn't say it's the majority, however that's not what I've come here to say.

Zoophilia has nothing to do with Autism or 'Degeneracy'. I'm not 100% up to speed on current research but as far as I remember it was more akin to pedophilia. 

At the same time, as Troj has said, comorbidities and risk factors are a thing.


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## Troj (May 11, 2022)

Autism prevalence in the fandom is about 2.5x greater than the general population, according to Furscience.

Without diving too deeply into the realm of idle speculation--because I feel like there's a lot more about the psychology of zoophilia in particular that I'd like to study and understand--some of the traits and experiences associated with autism could overlap with the common traits and experiences of pedophiles and/or zoophiles, such as feeling socially awkward, alienated, or detached, or being socially uninhibited or impulsive, or having a history of profound sexual or other abuse. But, again, it'd be a really unfair leap to conclude that autism=pedophilia or zoophilia, because there are obviously other critical mediating and moderating factors in play, and because a huge number of autistic people are not only not zoophiles or pedophiles, but are actively and ardently opposed to these paraphilias.


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## Parabellum3 (May 11, 2022)

Troj said:


> Autism prevalence in the fandom is about 2.5x greater than the general population, according to Furscience.
> 
> Without diving too deeply into the realm of idle speculation--because I feel like there's a lot more about the psychology of zoophilia in particular that I'd like to study and understand--some of the traits and experiences associated with autism could overlap with the common traits and experiences of pedophiles and/or zoophiles, such as feeling socially awkward, alienated, or detached, or being socially uninhibited or impulsive, or having a history of profound sexual or other abuse. But, again, it'd be a really unfair leap to conclude that autism=pedophilia or zoophilia, because there are obviously other critical mediating and moderating factors in play, and because a huge number of autistic people are not only not zoophiles or pedophiles, but are actively and ardently opposed to these paraphilias.


Still doesn’t stop the fact that it can indeed turn people bad, and that’s where most of the negative outlook comes towards.


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## ConorHyena (May 12, 2022)

Parabellum3 said:


> Still doesn’t stop the fact that it can indeed turn people bad, and that’s where most of the negative outlook comes towards.


_but that is just a general life thing_


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## Parabellum3 (May 12, 2022)

ConorHyena said:


> _but that is just a general life thing_


Such stupid shit. Why even bother living in it huh???


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