# I'd like your constructive critiqing, please



## TransformerRobot (Apr 9, 2013)

I'd like your opinions (as long as they're constructive) of this music I made.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10237042/

I know it's not that good, so I'd like some constructive criticism to see if it will help me make it better.


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## Python Blue (Apr 9, 2013)

Are the sound effects supposed to add to the mood?

As for the music itself, I sense you're using a Proteus/2 for the timpani, among other things.  As much as I love those sounds, however, they're a little dull without some reverb, which i think could only improve this piece. Consider raising the sample rate of the exported file as well. Not too many other major gripes.


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## Kalmor (Apr 9, 2013)

Python Blue said:


> Are the sound effects supposed to add to the mood?
> 
> As for the music itself, I sense you're using a Proteus/2 for the timpani, among other things.  As much as I love those sounds, however, they're a little dull without some reverb, which i think could only improve this piece. Consider raising the sample rate of the exported file as well. Not too many other major gripes.


Yes this.

The piece itself seems very minimalist (isn't necessarily a bad thing if you do it right). It's too repetitive for my tastes though but the overall rhythm played by the timpani is quite good, but re-used to the point where it becomes a little boring at the end. Try and add a few more instruments here and there to make it a little more interesting, as right now it's basically the same thing looped over and over with little variation. Try layering up these instruments gradually if you want to continue with the "minimalist" style, with little variations every few bars/measures. The piece also lacks a proper introduction and ending and general mastering is missing (as stated by Python above). Are those jungle sound effects supposed to add to the mood? I was wondering because your music should really do that for you.

It's a good start but you need to keep in mind these points above when composing this style of music.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 9, 2013)

Python Blue said:


> Are the sound effects supposed to add to the mood?
> 
> As for the music itself, I sense you're using a Proteus/2 for the timpani, among other things.  As much as I love those sounds, however, they're a little dull without some reverb, which i think could only improve this piece. Consider raising the sample rate of the exported file as well. Not too many other major gripes.



Thank you for your input.

I used the gongs and wildlife sounds because I thought they added a feeling of an untamed, wild and powerful jungle. Yes, a gong isn't something you'd hear in a jungle setting often, but the gong is an instrument originating from Asia, an even Asia and Southeast Asia have plenty of jungle, right? 

And Asia is close enough to Europe (hence the term "Eurasia"), so there's nothing wrong with using a drum of European origin (the timpani in this case), is there?


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## Python Blue (Apr 9, 2013)

You're welcome.

I wasn't questioning the gongs. XDD As for the birds and such, your reason is valid. Personally, I get more of the impression of a Jurassic-Park-style jungle, if anything, in which case the only thing missing is the brass ensemble.


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## Kalmor (Apr 9, 2013)

Python Blue said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> I wasn't questioning the gongs. XDD As for the birds and such, your reason is valid. Personally, I get more of the impression of a Jurassic-Park-style jungle, if anything, in which case the only thing missing is the brass ensemble.


This is what I was getting at with the lack of other instruments and such. I don't really think the jungle sound effects are really needed IMO.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 9, 2013)

Python Blue said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> I wasn't questioning the gongs. XDD As for the birds and such, your reason is valid. Personally, I get more of the impression of a Jurassic-Park-style jungle, if anything, in which case the only thing missing is the brass ensemble.



Brass ensemble? For a jungle soundtrack? I don't know of any African cultures that used brass instruments.


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## Python Blue (Apr 9, 2013)

Wasn't trying to say you SHOULD include brass. The main point I was trying to make was that it sounded more like Jurassic Park, or something relating to dinosaurs, due to the merging of orchestral and ethnic music.


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## Demensa (Apr 10, 2013)

While these are only my opinions, my main point as Raptros said, the piece was a little too repetitive for my taste. Just a little more variation or layering or introduction of new instruments would generate some more interest.
I don't have a problem with the sound effects; maybe the chirping birds could have been just a tiny bit quieter and with some reverb as Python said.

Another suggestion might be to put the gong at the very beginning of the piece if you're going for a sudden intro.
Also experiment with fading in and fading out to see if that works better for the piece. 
Anyways, you do a good job setting the mood you intended.



Python Blue said:


> Consider raising the sample rate of the exported file as well.



I agree with this, although to share the high sample rate file you'd have to upload it somewhere else, since FA's file size limit is _only 10 megabytes_.

Soundcloud is good if you want to upload reasonably large files.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 10, 2013)

A new, probably better version.


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## Kalmor (Apr 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> A new, probably better version.


An improvement. There's still no intro or proper ending and the repetitiveness is still somewhat there. The piece could really be made better with a bit a reverb, as was stated earlier on.


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## Cyril (Apr 10, 2013)

troll response: needs more cowbell

Okay now that that's out of my system. Not reading any other posts because bias etc.
The midi quality sucks but eh that's not the point. I don't understand why there was random drums sounding like a machine gun halfway through. It gets tedious with mostly one drum being used the entire time; even changing the one-drum rhythm to a two drum one would make it more interesting. 
And it really sounds empty, I would recommend adding some sort of white noise in the background.
And I don't really get "jungle" from this mostly because of the instrument choice. I also don't know enough to tell you what instruments would be better, but it doesn't sound "jungle"-y.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 10, 2013)

Raptros said:


> An improvement. There's still no intro or proper ending and the repetitiveness is still somewhat there. The piece could really be made better with a bit a reverb, as was stated earlier on.



Updated version.


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## Kalmor (Apr 10, 2013)

Transformer,

While I do notice that you're trying to take some of our points on board I can't help but feel you're being a little unresponsive to the advice that is being given. I think you're going in blindly without asking for any help on specifics, namely on how to implement said advice. I noticed that you were using a free online midi editor which isn't really the best thing to do the job. I recommend that if you're looking to do this seriously you need to be looking at a more dedicated DAW (digital audio workstation) like Reaper, FL studio, Pro tools, Logic pro, ect to really have access to many more features. You can try the demo versions of these (I know Reaper has a 60 day version, and is very cheap compared to others when you come to buy it).

You also need to learn more about composition in general, there're plenty of online resources out there to help you with this. Basic melody construction, chords (and chord progression), dynamics and just the general jist of what this is all about. You may think it's all well and good using free samples from freesound, but that severely limits you with what you can achieve composing your own.

As always we're here to help with anything.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 10, 2013)

Is FL Studio available for Mac OSX?


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## Kalmor (Apr 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Is FL Studio available for Mac OSX?


No. You're gonna have to bootcamp it into windows for it to work. You still didn't address my other concerns.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 10, 2013)

Raptros said:


> No. You're gonna have to bootcamp it into windows for it to work. You still didn't address my other concerns.



I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings if I did. I just picked the advice that I thought worked the best. Python's idea about a brass ensemble was great, so I used that one above the others.


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## Kalmor (Apr 10, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings if I did. I just picked the advice that I thought worked the best. Python's idea about a brass ensemble was great, so I used that one above the others.


You shouldn't pick and choose which advice you're going to take when all of the points brought up in this thread are good ones (and from people who have experience). You've haven't replyed to or acknowledged most of points brought up in this thread and this makes others feel like their advice isn't being heard or heeded. I've noticed this in your animation thread too.

You haven't hurt anyone's feelings, it's just a minor annoyance to think that advice isn't being acknowledged. We're all just trying to help you.

PROTIP: Ask questions, ask them about specific things, ask when you don't understand something. It makes it easier for us to help you.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 10, 2013)

Well, I tried to do an actual composition this time.

I added an individual conga sample to mimic a heartbeat, to try to add a sense of uneasiness in a deadly jungle.


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## Demensa (Apr 11, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> Well, I tried to do an actual composition this time.
> 
> I added an individual conga sample to mimic a heartbeat, to try to add a sense of uneasiness in a deadly jungle.



While there was certainly more interest generated and variety in this version, I actually think that your original composition was the most effective. For me, the scales used and the phrasing didn't quite reflect that uneasy, jungle mood (I think) you were going for. I would suggest for a tribal, jungle feel that you stick to mostly untuned percussion instruments with only light touches of tuned instruments. 
All of my previous advice stands, although I want to re-iterate the reverb part, (Even though telling someone to use reverb is hardly going to affect their composition skills for the most part. Reverb is important in getting songs to sound good, rather than being an integral part in composing - usually.)

Just remember, general critiques are only going to be useful up until a point, in music. We can tell you to change this and that, but if you keep changing _everything_ we say to, then it will be as much our song as it is yours. Our suggestions are not the be all and end all; as a musician you have to be able to say, "Ah, that sounds like a good idea, I'll try it!" or say "He said I should try a fade in intro, but I really wanted it to be sudden and sharp, so I'll leave it as it is." 
You just have to be honest with yourself about considering the advice. You don't have to change anything if you've legitimately considered the advice and decided against it. Just make sure you acknowledge that you read it, but did not make use of it for whatever reason. 

As Raptros said, if you have any specific questions on aspects of composing, setting a mood, phrasing, rhythmic patterns, dynamics, instrumentation, scales etc, it's much easier for us to help you get the song where _you_ want it to be; instead of the general critique, which tends to get the song where the _critic_ wants it to be.




Raptros said:


> You shouldn't pick and choose which advice you're going to take when all of the points brought up in this thread are good ones



While you should consider all of the advice, you should _by no means _implement all of the advice. The composer's choice is the most important.


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## Kalmor (Apr 11, 2013)

Demensa said:


> While you should consider all of the advice, you should _by no means _implement all of the advice. The composer's choice is the most important.


I agree, though it does pain me to see most things not being acknowledged. We have no idea if someone has even heard the advice if they don't make any reply to it _and_ don't make any hint of it in the song. All the points raised in this thread can be used for later songs too.


(I'll have a look at the updated version when I get out of bed...)


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm glad to get such helpful advice, but I'm getting so much of it at once that it's hard to follow all of it at the same time.

By the way, how would I get the feeling of savagery and untamed jungle back? I thought the brass section would work, but maybe it didn't.


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## Demensa (Apr 12, 2013)

TransformerRobot said:


> I'm glad to get such helpful advice, but I'm getting so much of it at once that it's hard to follow all of it at the same time.
> 
> By the way, how would I get the feeling of savagery and untamed jungle back? I thought the brass section would work, but maybe it didn't.



In my opinion it would have a more savage feel if the instruments were played live and with much more dynamics. With the MIDI editor you are using it can tend to sound a lot more mechanical because of the precision that comes with it. 
There is a little dynamic range in there, (the percussion in particular) but some of the instruments just don't sound organic enough to emulate a jungle setting. I actually feel that a real brass section would have the potential to make it sound savage and untamed, but as they are now, the sounds are just a little too artificial to elicit an emotional response in me. 

All of my previous advice stands.


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## TransformerRobot (Apr 13, 2013)

Yeah, live recordings...That's where I don't think I can go. I don't have the space at home, and probably not the money, to get real instruments and record myself performing.


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