# Questions



## Xioneer (Jun 2, 2008)

Is there a series/project Ad/Hype/"Plug" thread in this forum?

Is there a thread for fanfic writing contests with cash prizes?

Is there a thread for authors to seek other authors for co-writing?

Is there a thread naming authors who will take writing commissions?

Are there any ambitious writers here who want to write for comics/webcomics, TV and Movies?

Are there writers here who will conceive a fanfiction series and write it for commercial use?


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## Xipoid (Jun 2, 2008)

Not to that effect

No

No

No

I'm sure someone would, though they might not be on this forum.

Is that even legal? I honestly have no idea.


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## Xioneer (Jun 2, 2008)

Xipoid said:


> Not to that effect
> 
> No
> 
> ...



Thank you! I take you to be somewhat of an authority on this forum, so I won't bother checking up on your responses.

1: Do you think there would be complaints if I posted ads here for series and plots I conceive? Or might it be better to start a thread for the purpose? I would start ne for myself and just keep updating it...

2-4: If I started one or more of the "no's", Which ones to you think might go over well here?

5: I agree with you here, but I thought I would at least ask...

6: Perfectly legal in the cases I have in mind. You just need permissions, no problem.


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## Xipoid (Jun 2, 2008)

Dear me, I'm no authority; I've just been here for a while.


I would suggest starting a new thread entirely and maintaining it. Normally, one would post under the "Looking for writers" thread, but that does not entirely qualify in this instance of self-promotion being work specific.

If going over well is to be defined as to having any activity at all (honestly, this section is not that lively), I would say the co-author and commission one would be most fruitful. You might want to wait for other people's opinions on this one and the remaining questions not answered here.


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## Poetigress (Jun 2, 2008)

I assume that all four of the threads you've suggested have to do with the project(s)you've been advertising on the other forums, looking for artists and so on.  If that's the case, I suggest starting a single thread to give details of who/what you're looking for.  (Or you could resurrect this one, if we are talking about the same subject: http://forums.furaffinity.net/showthread.php?t=16472)

A co-authors thread might be interesting, but I don't know how interested most people are here in writing with others they don't know.  If they're interested in collaborating, they probably already know who they want to work with on their project, without having to advertise for some random writer in a thread.  But who knows -- start one and see what happens.

We've had a couple of commission-related threads recently, but nothing that specifically lists writers who take commissions.  Again, start it and see; it might be helpful, both for writers looking to advertise and readers looking to commission stories.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jun 2, 2008)

Xioneer said:


> Are there writers here who will conceive a fanfiction series and write it for commercial use?




How is this possible?


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## kitreshawn (Jun 3, 2008)

Theoretically it would be possible if you were to get the permission of the group that holds the Copyrights to whatever you made a fanfic of, however as far as I know this has never happened.  Fanfics often fly in the face of established canon (although it may not be apparent  yet, or even ever be reflected in whatever has been released to the public).

Without permission you cannot make money off of a FanFiction series unless you are willing to risk a lawsuit.  Even if you are not making money the group that holds the Copyright is perfectly within its rights to force you to stop writing your FanFic if they wish (usually done when they believe it hurts their intellectual property).  You could theoretically use a parody defense (parody is protected as free speech), but that is risky and depends a lot on what type of work you were doing and on the judge.

Long story short: Fanfictions are not for commercial use.


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## Xioneer (Jun 6, 2008)

kitreshawn said:


> Theoretically it would be possible if you were to get the permission of the group that holds the Copyrights to whatever you made a fanfic of, however as far as I know this has never happened.  Fanfics often fly in the face of established canon (although it may not be apparent  yet, or even ever be reflected in whatever has been released to the public).



And it is about time a franchise was established that is geared toward the fans. True enough that it really hasn't been done before. Imagine how popular a series that the fans could write commerically for would become...



kitreshawn said:


> Without permission you cannot make money off of a FanFiction series unless you are willing to risk a lawsuit.  Even if you are not making money the group that holds the Copyright is perfectly within its rights to force you to stop writing your FanFic if they wish (usually done when they believe it hurts their intellectual property).  You could theoretically use a parody defense (parody is protected as free speech), but that is risky and depends a lot on what type of work you were doing and on the judge.



It is nice to have someone spell this out so clearly. Point A(making money) makes perfect sense, and I can even see where Point B(intellectual property damages) might become an issue; after all, a trend of sexual content in fan fictions and the rare instances when a fan really privately overhauls an entire franchise and shows what it could be as opposed to what it is.



kitreshawn said:


> Long story short: Fanfictions are not for commercial use.



Not in the truest sense, no, but techically they easily can be. Anyone can be a fan of anything. So someone establishes intellectual property which has not gone commercial yet and invites "fans" of it to write in accordance with its premise. That would technically be fan fiction and could be entailed for commercial usage.


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## Xioneer (Jun 6, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> How is this possible?



It is a matter of a writer becoming a "fan" of an intellectual collaborative project which is geared toward fan involvement. A universe to write in is conceived and writers are invited to step in and conceive their own, original series set in it, which would technically be "fan fictions". In such cases, provided the "owner" of the original intellectual properties is willing and the "fan fiction" writers are willing to entail their materials to the project for commercial development, production and release under an umbrella franchise.

And if none of the above makes sense, that is because I don't know exactly what I am taking about. I only have common sense to reason on these matters...


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## StormKitty (Jun 6, 2008)

I'm aware of at least one instance of a commercially published author who explicitly permitted works of fanfiction, and quite a few were produced.  Things went wrong when she wrote what was supposed to be the next canonical work in the series, and in the opinion of the writer of one particular existing work of fanfiction, it too closely resembled his story, so he sued to get credited as co-author.  In actuality, the series author hadn't even read the work of fanfiction in question, and it was simply a case of the two authors independently coming up with nearly the same idea (which is surprisingly common even with story ideas and elements that seem to be unique and original).  The series author didn't want to share credit for a work she had developed on her own, and the fanfic author wouldn't concede either.  The end result was that the novel never got published, and the incident had a major chilling effect on the series author and her publisher's view of fanfiction, and by extension on the fan community.


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jun 6, 2008)

Xioneer said:


> It is a matter of a writer becoming a "fan" of an intellectual collaborative project which is geared toward fan involvement. A universe to write in is conceived and writers are invited to step in and conceive their own, original series set in it, which would technically be "fan fictions". In such cases, provided the "owner" of the original intellectual properties is willing and the "fan fiction" writers are willing to entail their materials to the project for commercial development, production and release under an umbrella franchise.
> 
> And if none of the above makes sense, that is because I don't know exactly what I am taking about. I only have common sense to reason on these matters...




Ah, so it's like a shared universe project, except you get paid.


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## Xioneer (Jun 6, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> Ah, so it's like a shared universe project, except you get paid.



I haven't really been able to define what it is to my satisfaction, but you could certainly call it that. And the idea is, once it goes commercial, even the new fans garnered can do freelance writing and concepting for the resulting franchise. I realize there are some firm legalities to be dealt with, but it is such a waste that smaller franchises don't take advantage of all the materials their fans could supply. Everyone gets something out of it that way...


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## Xioneer (Jun 6, 2008)

StormKitty said:


> I'm aware of at least one instance of a commercially published author who explicitly permitted works of fanfiction, and quite a few were produced.  Things went wrong when she wrote what was supposed to be the next canonical work in the series, and in the opinion of the writer of one particular existing work of fanfiction, it too closely resembled his story, so he sued to get credited as co-author.  In actuality, the series author hadn't even read the work of fanfiction in question, and it was simply a case of the two authors independently coming up with nearly the same idea (which is surprisingly common even with story ideas and elements that seem to be unique and original).  The series author didn't want to share credit for a work she had developed on her own, and the fanfic author wouldn't concede either.  The end result was that the novel never got published, and the incident had a major chilling effect on the series author and her publisher's view of fanfiction, and by extension on the fan community.



I suppose that by now, someone must have tried it. I didn't know, though.

In the case you cite, as the series author I would have capitulated to the fan fic author; there would be no way I could prove I had not read his fan fic and I would let him have his dirty money if he won't take my word. Some people are just very firm for their rights. She was obviously working for fame and fortune and it really can't be said just how on the level he was...


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## Poetigress (Jun 6, 2008)

Xioneer said:


> as the series author I would have capitulated to the fan fic author; there would be no way I could prove I had not read his fan fic and I would let him have his dirty money if he won't take my word. Some people are just very firm for their rights. She was obviously working for fame and fortune and it really can't be said just how on the level he was...



Wait a second.  The series author is "obviously working for fame and fortune" just because she doesn't want to share credit with someone who had nothing to do with the book she'd written?  Come on.

But then, I admit I don't have a lot of sympathy for her in this case -- she opened herself up for exactly this scenario when she openly encouraged fanfic instead of either ignoring or discouraging it.

On a similar note, Xioneer, based on my (still somewhat muddy) understanding of the project, you might want to call it a "shared universe" or "commerical shared universe" or something like that, rather than using "fanfic" to describe it, as those terms seem closer to what you're aiming for.  (And I hope before anyone actually starts working or gets paid, you have some kind of written contract that makes all the terms clear.)


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## Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage (Jun 6, 2008)

Xioneer said:


> I haven't really been able to define what it is to my satisfaction, but you could certainly call it that. And the idea is, once it goes commercial, even the new fans garnered can do freelance writing and concepting for the resulting franchise. I realize there are some firm legalities to be dealt with, but it is such a waste that smaller franchises don't take advantage of all the materials their fans could supply. Everyone gets something out of it that way...



I suppose there are all sort of reasons for it, but it always bothered me too. Especially when some ( a few, but still! ) of the fan created works were far superior to what was being churned out by writers on, say, a series. Sure, there was a lot of porn, which is a complaint often used to devalue fanfic - but that's because our (here I mean Western) society is still suffering from a long historty of puritanical prudism. Even a whiff of sex 'spoils' a work, but tons of tons and violence are a-ok - but that's another rant for another time. When you consider how neutered and restricted mass media has to be, to appeal to the largest number of people so it can turn a profit (more movies and tv than books, though) in many respects only the fans, who aren't doing it for money therefore aren't handcuffed by having to tone things down to a level that would be considered by uptight bluenoses, only the fans can really sink their teeth into a concept and show all the grit, dirt, blood, semen, pain, suffering and ecstacy that are part of real life but aren't considered suitable for mass consumption. 

A lot of authors have a very snobby attitude towards fanfic but it's not really distinguishable as an inspiration from any other inspiration, except that its creators tend to still be alive. Hell, even Germaine Greer and Ursula K. LeGuin have recently produced books that are nothing more than fanfic they're getting paid for, and they seem to be riding the rest of a wave of popular fiction based on 'characters' in paintings and little-known relatives or companions of well known historical figures. 

Obviously there would have to be some sort of ruling cabal in your enterpirse that would ensure quality control if you expect to make enough profit to pay your writers, so there's still going to be an unavoidable element of censorship. Ideally a shared world would benefit from a consensus of very different minds and their creativtiy, at worst it would devolve into an anarchic mess. All I can say is, very good luck with it!


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## Xioneer (Jun 6, 2008)

Poetigress said:


> Wait a second.  The series author is "obviously working for fame and fortune" just because she doesn't want to share credit with someone who had nothing to do with the book she'd written?  Come on.



Well, I don't know exactly, but assuming her series went down the tubes becuase she refused to give in, she sacrificed the whole thing. Most authors start out for passion and just wanting to create something new and really good that they can make a decent living at, but just as soon as you get your break and the money starts pouring in, you have to question yourself. In her scenario, she should have arranged fan co-authoring and collaboration in return for contracts, royalties and possibly up-front fees. Encouraging fan fiction without any terms between herself and those that did take up writing fan fictions for her series was a major bloop.

Facts are facts and truth/truth, but her reputation was on the line; she could have capitulated and made a statement and just learned to guard herself from future issues.

I guess that if she HAD been in it for Fortune alone, then she might have capitulated just to move on. But then she ight have been greedy. And if was the Fame, then possibly she didn't want to share the credit - whether she should have shared the credit is anybody's guess. Things happen. There are plenty of ruthless and unprincipled people.



Poetigress said:


> On a similar note, Xioneer, based on my (still somewhat muddy) understanding of the project, you might want to call it a "shared universe" or "commerical shared universe" or something like that, rather than using "fanfic" to describe it, as those terms seem closer to what you're aiming for.  (And I hope before anyone actually starts working or gets paid, you have some kind of written contract that makes all the terms clear.)



They do have a term for it..."Open Source Universe", but what I have in mind has several unique aspects to it, so I am looking for a new term. What you suggest will probably serve fine.

As far as contracts, I'll do whatever it takes...The CUP will need dozens of different types of contracts. I'll probably have interested parties draft their own contracts, then we'll iron out things until the signing...


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## Xioneer (Jun 6, 2008)

Le_DÃ©mon_Sans_Visage said:


> Obviously there would have to be some sort of ruling cabal in your enterpirse that would ensure quality control if you expect to make enough profit to pay your writers, so there's still going to be an unavoidable element of censorship. Ideally a shared world would benefit from a consensus of very different minds and their creativtiy, at worst it would devolve into an anarchic mess. All I can say is, very good luck with it!



Bingo. That will have to be me and other contributors who have a clear idea of the overall vision for the CUP. I really don't want to be a Director, but I have no choice. I'm just trying to start something that I and other creative writers, artists, musicians and conceptionists can benefit from, in terms of exposure, income and self-confidence, perhaps even a career.

And thank you for the wellwish!


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## StormKitty (Jun 6, 2008)

I did a little digging on the incident referred to in my earlier post.  The author in question is Marion Zimmer Bradley, and the novel was supposed to be part of her _Darkover_ series.  I don't know if it was ever made available.

A number of other authors and publishers who might otherwise be more open to fan fiction have cited the Marion Zimmer Bradley case as one of the main reasons they feel they have to take the position of not allowing fan fiction.


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## Poetigress (Jun 6, 2008)

They may have published it after her death.  I know I've seen other Avalon novels come out since then, using notes or outlines or partial manuscripts, fleshed out by someone else.


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