# MMORPGs - I'm at my wit's end



## FrisbeeRolf (May 5, 2008)

Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs have such potential, they create a world of their own and through them you may lose your troubles of the day.  They spark imagination and new ideas yet keep people from achieving great things.  People wrongly devote their lives to these games for no real purpose other than trying to become something great.  Something people look up to.  Not the best ideology to say the least but in comparison with other video games, that most people only play for weeks at a time then quit playing them, MMORPGs are truly a thing of the future.  The internet connects people like never before and using video games to increase communications between countries is a marvelous idea.  You can play with friends that are half way across the world, or friends across the road.  Distance isn't as important anymore.  You could say MMORPGs are a symbol of world peace (or war, which ever it really is I am unsure).

However, there is only one real problem.  Every MMORPG to date sucks, be it in a minor or complete way.   The level system almost always depends on how much time you can devote to the game and usually goes in conjunction with how obsessive you are with the game.  MMORPGs suck for those who don't want to spend hours upon hours of their lives on a silly game.  There rarely is anything to actually do other than talk with people and level up your character mindlessly while you listen to music.  I have yet to see an MMO that actually depends on party cooperation and participation for leveling other than moronic grind parties that require certain classes. 

Another major problem with most every MMO I've seen thus far is, controls and game play.  Mainly speaking of "point and click" RPGs.  My God how I hate those words.  Point and click is clumsy and very awkward; it inhibits fast response time and ultimately kills real time combat.  And guess what is the norm in MMORPGs?  You got it, "point and click".  Why can't MMOs work completely on the keyboard?  If MMOs were turn based, point and click might work out rather well.  However I highly doubt a turn based MMO will ever exist.  Not that it couldn't,  I just doubt any game makers will have the guts to try it.

Most MMORPGs are so damn complicated as well!  It takes ages just to learn how to level up correctly, leading a lot of people into frustration and therefore quitting the game.  Normally, games on consoles and PC send you right into game play, without you having to memorize a lot of shit, but MMORPGs are a new level of incomprehensible game mechanics.  To start playing you have to figure out what the hell to do, and most of the time this part of the game is extremely confusing because there is very little if any help on what to do next, other than stupid menus and retarded characters treating you like you are 5. Makes me feel like an old person complaining about all these new gadgets young kids are using.  And once you get past this stage, what little "fun" you actually get from an MMORPG doesn't normally come until much later.  Hours and hours of griding later to be exact.  What ever happened to the simple fun of playing a game with other people?  Can't developers create enough content to keep casual players happy through quests like dungeons and exploration (instead of the idiotic "find x amount of y to get z" type quests that are predominant in the majority of MMOs)?

While I'm on the topic of nostalgia, what ever happened to 2D gaming?  There is one MMORPG that actually got away from the point and click craze that I know of that is full 2D.  Yep, Maple Story.  Maple Story was revolutionary, no one MMO has come close to being as original as this game was.  Key word: was.   Even though Maple was amazing because it was a 2D, real time combat MMO, well, it just plain sucked.  The people who manage it are money whores and the whole game, again, depends on how insanely obsessive you are.

Point of this thread: am I missing something?  Is there something I should try?  Do you think it's even possible for a good MMORPG to exist?  One that isn't point and click, or turn based, or grind level based?  2D maybe?  Really a depressing topic to me since I love RPGs so much.


----------



## Takun (May 5, 2008)

I quit WoW.  It had a good run.  I enjoyed how vast it felt the first time I played it.  It was still new then.  There wasn't online databases that covered every little detail.  People weren't spec nazis.  I could have fun pugging the first level 60 dungeons.  No raids.  I made a bunch of friends...then the game just kept going and I felt blah.

I should add I did do the quests way back when to upgrade the blue dungeon set to epic.  It was something I could do on my own time that took work and still rewarded me.  I had fun with it.


----------



## Rilvor (May 5, 2008)

I played WoW for a year and a half.
Let me tell you, there's nothing quite like the feeling you get the first time you face off against Ragnaros, or the first time your guild downed Nefarian after being in BWL for months *nostalgia*


----------



## Azure (May 5, 2008)

I used to play EVE Online, but I got bored.  I love giant space lasers.


----------



## Kickapoo (May 5, 2008)

I played WOW for a year and a half, I just quit recently.  I feel you in that you do get a great feeling the first time you play, of how vast everything is and the potential you have.  Then when you reach the level cap then it's just a mindless cycle of better gear, better spec, and how many hours you can spend.  It got ridiculous for me there for a while, and then I just got sick of it and quit.  That's the worst thing about it to me is that there is technically no "end" to the game, it makes you have a bitter-taste in your mouth.  I was fortunate enough myself to see the world before the first expansion.  Can't wait to see the greater potential MMORPG's can have for the future....  Hopefully less of an obsessive game...ugh.


----------



## shirei-demon (May 5, 2008)

I'm with ya on this, I've tried many different MMO's. Maplestory, WoW, Guild Wars, Rappelz, 9Dragons, Ragnarock, Fly for Fun, and many many others. Always in the attempt to find that one MMO that doesn't completely and utterly suck.

I played WoW the most out of all of them, just like most people. And yeah, at first it was fun, specially w hen I was just playing it on another friend's account. but when I got my own account and started playing a lot, I coudl never stay in it. 

Then again, my problem is I HATE competition. reason I hate most sports and things where you compete with anothe person. and what is most MMO's but reasons for people to compete with others about who is "better" or has a higher level or cooler gear.

I would love to see an MMO come out someday where it isn't your level or your gear that gets you through, but your wits, ability to work along with others, and your skills. Something that brings people together because they'd fall apart otherwise...not just like every other game out there where you're either against each other, or working with them for a similar purpose before you toss them aside again to grind on your own.


----------



## FrisbeeRolf (May 5, 2008)

shirei-demon said:


> I'm with ya on this, I've tried many different MMO's. Maplestory, WoW, Guild Wars, Rappelz, 9Dragons, Ragnarock, Fly for Fun, and many many others. Always in the attempt to find that one MMO that doesn't completely and utterly suck.
> 
> I played WoW the most out of all of them, just like most people. And yeah, at first it was fun, specially w hen I was just playing it on another friend's account. but when I got my own account and started playing a lot, I coudl never stay in it.
> 
> ...


Yes.  I played Maple story for almost a year.  I got a level 74 WhiteKnight, so I knew almost everything about that game.  And the funnest part of the whole damn thing was the Party Quests, the only part of the game where you had to work with other people and party to get anywhere.  After that, it just wasn't worth it.  It was all about getting the next set of armor and weapons.

The only sport I play, Soccer, is more about team work than competition, but I understand what you mean there as well.


----------



## shirei-demon (May 5, 2008)

FrisbeeRolf said:


> Yes.  I played Maple story for almost a year.  I got a level 74 WhiteKnight, so I knew almost everything about that game.  And the funnest part of the whole damn thing was the Party Quests, the only part of the game where you had to work with other people and party to get anywhere.  After that, it just wasn't worth it.  It was all about getting the next set of armor and weapons.
> 
> The only sport I play, Soccer, is more about team work than competition, but I understand what you mean there as well.




If more games were based around grouping with others to complete stuff, they would defiantly be more fun, and teach people the importance of "working together" to many people in todays youth don't know what it means to "get along with others" and as much as I hate to admit it, playing games like this all the time is probably one of the many factors. People aren't learning team-work early on like they should be, and that's defiantly hurting them in the end.


damn, I'm only 20 years old and I sound like an old nag already xD


----------



## BloodYoshi (May 6, 2008)

I still love WoW. I very well know it's an overglorified waste of time, but I love it. All MMOs are, really.


----------



## FrisbeeRolf (May 6, 2008)

shirei-demon said:


> If more games were based around grouping with others to complete stuff, they would defiantly be more fun, and teach people the importance of "working together" to many people in todays youth don't know what it means to "get along with others" and as much as I hate to admit it, playing games like this all the time is probably one of the many factors. People aren't learning team-work early on like they should be, and that's defiantly hurting them in the end.
> 
> 
> damn, I'm only 20 years old and I sound like an old nag already xD


Wisdom beyond your years is not a bad thing.  I agree with you.


----------



## Kyoujin (May 6, 2008)

They need to make a Pokemon MMORPG. ;[ That would be the shit.


But yeah.. Anarchy Online was my favorite because of the depth you could do into skill customization.. twinks were actually twinks, not that "whoever has the most money" WoW bullcrap. Lol.

I play WoW just because my friends do, but I rarely play it. It's not addicting at all, to me.. it's just the same thing over and over again, and there's no depth to it. Ugh.


----------



## Kickapoo (May 6, 2008)

shirei-demon said:


> If more games were based around grouping with others to complete stuff, they would defiantly be more fun, and teach people the importance of "working together" to many people in todays youth don't know what it means to "get along with others" and as much as I hate to admit it, playing games like this all the time is probably one of the many factors. People aren't learning team-work early on like they should be, and that's defiantly hurting them in the end.
> 
> 
> damn, I'm only 20 years old and I sound like an old nag already xD



I definitely agree with you on an MMO where teamwork and wits are the most important.  That being said, when I was on WOW we would be in the high level dungeons and/or instances for 3-4 even 5 hours before we complete it or fail.  So if there is a better teamwork MMO that comes out, hopefully you don't have to commit as much time.  I would definitely get it if there was one...


----------



## Takun (May 6, 2008)

Kickapoo said:


> I definitely agree with you on an MMO where teamwork and wits are the most important.  That being said, when I was on WOW we would be in the high level dungeons and/or instances for 3-4 even 5 hours before we complete it or fail.  So if there is a better teamwork MMO that comes out, hopefully you don't have to commit as much time.  I would definitely get it if there was one...



I have to ask which?  I never was in any for more than 2 1/2 hours and that was raids like SSC and The Eye.


----------



## shirei-demon (May 6, 2008)

Kickapoo said:


> I definitely agree with you on an MMO where teamwork and wits are the most important.  That being said, when I was on WOW we would be in the high level dungeons and/or instances for 3-4 even 5 hours before we complete it or fail.  So if there is a better teamwork MMO that comes out, hopefully you don't have to commit as much time.  I would definitely get it if there was one...



Unfortunately I never did any raids when I used to play. The most I ever did was 5-player dungeons that took no longer then a half hour to forty minutes to get through.

I probably would never have done hte longer raids, anyway. My life is always moving and I never know when things pop up, so things that take up hours of my life like that are never good xD


----------



## M. LeRenard (May 6, 2008)

My main beef with most MMOs (besides the fact that you have to pay monthly for something you already paid $60 for, which implies that to get your money's worth you need to spend at least 5 hours a day on it even though you might have better things to do) is the lack of interesting plots... or interesting anything, for that matter.  It's always your basic classes (warriors of some kind, maybe with some minor variation like healing ability, wizards of different types, healers of different types, etc.), basic races (elves, orc-like creatures, dwarves, humans, undead, etc.), and very, very basic plotlines (collect 7 jars of honey and bring them to the dragonlord to get the Shield of Uber Pain and Cool Superdooperness!).  In a sense, there is absolutely no creativity put into these games; it's just D&D knock-offs all over the place.  And bad ones.
This is fine for 12 year olds.  Me, I would like to put away the brain chewing-gum for a while and see something interesting happen.  Especially if I'm expected to spend so much time on the bloody game in the first place.
I'm sticking with console RPGs for that reason.


----------



## Oni (May 6, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> ...and very, very basic plotlines (collect 7 jars of honey and bring them to the dragonlord to get the Shield of Uber Pain...


*Laughs* Some types of people enjoy the tedious  "loot and level" style of gameplay. I'll admit that I was one of those people' I did play hellgate london for 3 months strait, and the experience was absolutely satisfying. 


I cannot allow myself to be close to any sort of video game; they are far too distracting.


----------



## FrisbeeRolf (May 6, 2008)

Oni said:


> *Laughs* Some types of people enjoy the tedious  "loot and level" style of gameplay. I'll admit that I was one of those people' I did play hellgate london for 3 months strait, and the experience was absolutely satisfying.
> 
> 
> I cannot allow myself to be close to any sort of video game; they are far too distracting.


Straight.
_Straight..._
*Straight*

Yes I know what you mean, like I said I was a Maple Story player for a long time.  I was so dead set on getting to level 70, the third job advancement.  Then when I got there, I was so, disappointed.  It was just more of the same shit.  Level up, get more skills, get more armor, level up, ect ect...  Finally I realized how stupid it was to do this.


----------



## Takun (May 6, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> My main beef with most MMOs (besides the fact that you have to pay monthly for something you already paid $60 for, which implies that to get your money's worth you need to spend at least 5 hours a day on it even though you might have better things to do) is the lack of interesting plots... or interesting anything, for that matter.  It's always your basic classes (warriors of some kind, maybe with some minor variation like healing ability, wizards of different types, healers of different types, etc.), basic races (elves, orc-like creatures, dwarves, humans, undead, etc.), and very, very basic plotlines (collect 7 jars of honey and bring them to the dragonlord to get the Shield of Uber Pain and Cool Superdooperness!).  In a sense, there is absolutely no creativity put into these games; it's just D&D knock-offs all over the place.  And bad ones.
> This is fine for 12 year olds.  Me, I would like to put away the brain chewing-gum for a while and see something interesting happen.  Especially if I'm expected to spend so much time on the bloody game in the first place.
> I'm sticking with console RPGs for that reason.



Well actually it's about a quarter a day on top of the game itself.  Nothing bankshattering.


----------



## M. LeRenard (May 6, 2008)

> Well actually it's about a quarter a day on top of the game itself. Nothing bankshattering.


Well, for a miser like me, that's a quarter a day too much (that amounts to, what, nearly $100 a year?  So after 2 years you'd be playing a $250 game).  Halo players don't have to pay a quarter a day to use the online system, so why should anyone else?  WoW and the like could easily make their money from the initial investments, then maybe additional fees if you want to upgrade to get different mods or whatever.  I don't see any need for some kind of monthly charge just to play the game.
But I guess enough people play it that it doesn't matter what I think, after all.  

Then there are things like Second Life.... I don't get that at all.  Unless you're one of those clever folks who makes a living selling digital real-estate to morons who want to buy digital real-estate, so they can... like, walk around it and admire the nifty polygonness of it all through their 12x10 inch screens.  But hey, if you'd rather live inside your monitor than in the real world, more power to you.  I admit; sometimes it's better.


----------



## Takun (May 6, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Well, for a miser like me, that's a quarter a day too much (that amounts to, what, nearly $100 a year?  So after 2 years you'd be playing a $250 game).  Halo players don't have to pay a quarter a day to use the online system, so why should anyone else?  WoW and the like could easily make their money from the initial investments, then maybe additional fees if you want to upgrade to get different mods or whatever.  I don't see any need for some kind of monthly charge just to play the game.
> But I guess enough people play it that it doesn't matter what I think, after all.
> 
> Then there are things like Second Life.... I don't get that at all.  Unless you're one of those clever folks who makes a living selling digital real-estate to morons who want to buy digital real-estate, so they can... like, walk around it and admire the nifty polygonness of it all through their 12x10 inch screens.  But hey, if you'd rather live inside your monitor than in the real world, more power to you.  I admit; sometimes it's better.



Not going to argue but you can't compare Halo and a MMO in terms of online costs.


Edit: meant terms not turns lol


----------



## Oni (May 6, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Well, for a miser like me, that's a quarter a day too much (that amounts to, what, nearly $100 a year?  So after 2 years you'd be playing a $250 game).  Halo players don't have to pay a quarter a day to use the online system, so why should anyone else?  WoW and the like could easily make their money from the initial investments, then maybe additional fees if you want to upgrade to get different mods or whatever.  I don't see any need for some kind of monthly charge just to play the game.
> But I guess enough people play it that it doesn't matter what I think, after all.  .


Quite honestly, when you consider the amount of entertainment that WoW provides for only a quarter per day, the "cost per hour of entertainment" ratio greatly favors the gamer. How much do the movie theaters charge per showing? How much did that long island cost? $80.oo for 2 hours of paintball??? Trap shooting costs?(something I want to do)

To word things bluntly, WoW has millions of players. WoW charges $10.00-$15.00? a monther per gamer. They are making millions while continuously making their customers happy with new content.





M. Le Renard said:


> Then there are things like Second Life.... I don't get that at all.  Unless you're one of those clever folks who makes a living selling digital real-estate to morons who want to buy digital real-estate, so they can... like, walk around it and admire the nifty polygonness of it all through their 12x10 inch screens.  But hey, if you'd rather live inside your monitor than in the real world, more power to you.  I admit; sometimes it's better.


Your words are hilarious, logical, and true.(disregarding the morons comment)
The sentient(?) second life population confuses me also. ;d


----------



## Foxstar (May 6, 2008)

It sounds like you hate Timesinks. If you do, in that case, yes a MMO is a waste of your time.


----------



## Springdragon (May 6, 2008)

Hm.. Well, if you want solutions to the money, the cooperation, and the confusing interface, I can direct you to DOMO. It's a Chinese based game, but it forces cooperation (you must have a party to do certain quests, and leveling up character relationships between you and other players gets you cool new abilities) there's a pretty good tutorial stage at the beginning to teach you how the game works and plenty of NPCs to explain things, and a lot of the quests are plot based. Also, you can have multiple classed characters, so more time doesn't necessarily mean a better character if you have a bad combination of skills, or skills that require equipment that you can't put on your main class. The graphics are... cute, shall we say. Best of all, it's free! (Unless you want to spend money on costumes, buffs, and other stuff from the item mall, but you can also get those things in-game). However, it doesn't solve the point-click problem. Each to his own.


----------



## Armaetus (May 6, 2008)

After about 2-2 1/4 years of playing on private servers on Ragnarok and very briefly playing Maple Story, I realized after some time how it's all the same....the grinding crap to level up, some monsters only killable with well equipped parties, etc. My last days on RO was just crazy since that particular server was closing.

It's nothing but the same crap reused in some manner and got boring. Not to mention the handful of morons I've dealt with over the few servers I played with someone I befriended (who later made his own server, yoshiRO...don't know if it's still running)...I have not heard from him on AIM in a very long time.

I've been nice enough to tank a few times and even party more with people which I liked.

In all, MMOs are static as you can't make your own content (IE mods for those not knowing) like many RPGs and non-RPGs do. If I can't alter and make weapon X do Y damage, forget about me playing it.


----------



## M. LeRenard (May 7, 2008)

Well, I used Halo as a counter-example because there are tons of folks who spend just as much time, if not more, playing the online matches as people who play WoW.
Maybe a better example would be Guild Wars.  Same shit as WoW, but no monthly fee.  The only reason most people don't play it instead is because there's a level cap at 20, meaning you have to rely on intelligence rather than level-grinding to complete quests, and you don't get as many race/class choices.  But despite the lower sales and lack of monthly fees, you don't see NC Soft going bankrupt over it.
But like I said... no one cares about my opinion on this matter.  WoW shall continue to flourish, small monthly fees or no.


----------



## FrisbeeRolf (May 7, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Well, I used Halo as a counter-example because there are tons of folks who spend just as much time, if not more, playing the online matches as people who play WoW.
> Maybe a better example would be Guild Wars.  Same shit as WoW, but no monthly fee.  The only reason most people don't play it instead is because there's a level cap at 20, meaning you have to rely on intelligence rather than level-grinding to complete quests, and you don't get as many race/class choices.  But despite the lower sales and lack of monthly fees, you don't see NC Soft going bankrupt over it.
> But like I said... no one cares about my opinion on this matter.  WoW shall continue to flourish, small monthly fees or no.


But when you consider what normal gamers spend on games in a month/year, WoW's small monthly fee isn't that bad.  I'd be willing to spend that money on a game that was actually worth something, but WoW fails to deliver it for me.  It's just another grind fest.


----------



## Chameleo (May 7, 2008)

FrisbeeRolf said:


> But when you consider what normal gamers spend on games in a month/year, WoW's small monthly fee isn't that bad.  I'd be willing to spend that money on a game that was actually worth something, but WoW fails to deliver it for me.  It's just another grind fest.



Yeah, WoW is beyond a rational price range and fifteen dollars really won't attract the casual player.


----------



## BlackLotus (May 7, 2008)

You're better just smashing the disc and playing decent RPGs, which actually have good storylines. MMORPGs just suck.


----------



## Wait Wait (May 7, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Well, I used Halo as a counter-example because there are tons of folks who spend just as much time, if not more, playing the online matches as people who play WoW.
> Maybe a better example would be Guild Wars.  Same shit as WoW, but no monthly fee.  The only reason most people don't play it instead is because there's a level cap at 20, meaning you have to rely on intelligence rather than level-grinding to complete quests, and you don't get as many race/class choices.  But despite the lower sales and lack of monthly fees, you don't see NC Soft going bankrupt over it.
> But like I said... no one cares about my opinion on this matter.  WoW shall continue to flourish, small monthly fees or no.



right, but guild wars isn't fun


----------



## Oni (May 7, 2008)

Springdragon said:


> Hm.. Well, if you want solutions to the money, the cooperation, and the confusing interface, I can direct you to DOMO. It's a Chinese based game, but it forces cooperation (you must have a party to do certain quests, and leveling up character relationships between you and other players gets you cool new abilities) there's a pretty good tutorial stage at the beginning to teach you how the game works and plenty of NPCs to explain things, and a lot of the quests are plot based. Also, you can have multiple classed characters, so more time doesn't necessarily mean a better character if you have a bad combination of skills, or skills that require equipment that you can't put on your main class. The graphics are... cute, shall we say. Best of all, it's free! (Unless you want to spend money on costumes, buffs, and other stuff from the item mall, but you can also get those things in-game). However, it doesn't solve the point-click problem. Each to his own.


I'd rather be a god in diablo and follow my own agenda. ^.^


----------



## Takun (May 7, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> Well, I used Halo as a counter-example because there are tons of folks who spend just as much time, if not more, playing the online matches as people who play WoW.
> Maybe a better example would be Guild Wars.  Same shit as WoW, but no monthly fee.  The only reason most people don't play it instead is because there's a level cap at 20, meaning you have to rely on intelligence rather than level-grinding to complete quests, and you don't get as many race/class choices.  But despite the lower sales and lack of monthly fees, you don't see NC Soft going bankrupt over it.
> But like I said... no one cares about my opinion on this matter.  WoW shall continue to flourish, small monthly fees or no.



Except that Guild Wars isn't on the same scope as WoW.  Still different.


*can't believe he's defending a game he hates with a passion now*


----------



## M. LeRenard (May 7, 2008)

If you say so.


----------



## skulltoe (May 7, 2008)

M. Le Renard said:


> My main beef with most MMOs (besides the fact that you have to pay monthly for something you already paid $60 for, which implies that to get your money's worth you need to spend at least 5 hours a day on it even though you might have better things to do) is the lack of interesting plots... or interesting anything, for that matter.  It's always your basic classes (warriors of some kind, maybe with some minor variation like healing ability, wizards of different types, healers of different types, etc.), basic races (elves, orc-like creatures, dwarves, humans, undead, etc.), and very, very basic plotlines (collect 7 jars of honey and bring them to the dragonlord to get the Shield of Uber Pain and Cool Superdooperness!).  In a sense, there is absolutely no creativity put into these games; it's just D&D knock-offs all over the place.  And bad ones.
> This is fine for 12 year olds.  Me, I would like to put away the brain chewing-gum for a while and see something interesting happen.  Especially if I'm expected to spend so much time on the bloody game in the first place.
> I'm sticking with console RPGs for that reason.



I'm going to recommend to you EVE Online. It's very thought-provoking and deep, and very different from all of those D&D knockoffs you see everywhere. It has a pretty decent storyline and an enormous universe. WoW can't even compare in world size. And there are no "levels" for your character, you focus on leveling the skills you need to. And leveling is not an hour-by-hour grinding process, instead, you just right click > Train the skill. It can take a long time, but it trains while you're logged out, and even while you run out of subscription . There are near infinite quests to do, and it'll keep you entertained for quite a while. Oh, and the graphics are awesome.

--End sales pitch--


----------



## Greyscale (May 7, 2008)

skulltoe said:


> I'm going to recommend to you EVE Online. It's very thought-provoking and deep, and very different from all of those D&D knockoffs you see everywhere. It has a pretty decent storyline and an enormous universe. WoW can't even compare in world size. And there are no "levels" for your character, you focus on leveling the skills you need to. And leveling is not an hour-by-hour grinding process, instead, you just right click > Train the skill. It can take a long time, but it trains while you're logged out, and even while you run out of subscription . There are near infinite quests to do, and it'll keep you entertained for quite a while. Oh, and the graphics are awesome.
> 
> --End sales pitch--



yeah, EVE is pretty fun (other then the fact that skills take forever to train). I started out as a carebear, but now i'm a pirate.

EVE also has a two week free trial, so it gives you plenty of time to check the game out.


----------



## RouShu_wolf (May 7, 2008)

I've been playing WoW for 3 years now, pretty much since release. I still play. Not quite as often, but I still enjoy it. I've played a lot of other MMOs...but none of them have come off to me as being as simplistic and user friendly as WoW. It takes maybe one character to a decent level (40 I'd say) before you can pretty much figure out what you're going wrong and what you're doing right and with the XP increase, it barely takes any time at all to get to 40. I've played a lot of free games and some trials of ones that weren't and just found them to be too repetitive from the start. WoW, in my opinion, gives the most options and most opportunities without being immensely complicated.


----------



## skulltoe (May 7, 2008)

Greyscale said:


> yeah, EVE is pretty fun (other then the fact that skills take forever to train). I started out as a carebear, but now i'm a pirate.
> 
> EVE also has a two week free trial, so it gives you plenty of time to check the game out.



Wanna lend me some isk? I'm down to 109m... :\


----------



## Digitalpotato (May 9, 2008)

Typically I found point and click to be effective in some games. But I like it when combined with the keyboard. 

"alright, hit tab to target the enemy...dammit Target the Tiger...NO DON'T TARGET THE SQUIRREL, TARGET THE TIGER! NO DON'T TARGET THE *OTHER* SQUIRREL, TARGET THE *TIGER*!"


----------



## Greyscale (May 9, 2008)

skulltoe said:


> Wanna lend me some isk? I'm down to 109m... :\



Naw, i'm using what isk I have for trading. Besides, I just bought a HAC so i'm a little low on funds.

What is your name in EVE? I'm Athena Nyx.


----------



## IceDragonVisy (May 10, 2008)

Kyoujin said:


> They need to make a Pokemon MMORPG. ;[ That would be the shit.


While I personally despise MMO style games with a passion, I would so second this. Mainly because I'm a big pokÃ©fag.

Unless they do the pay-to-play subscription shit like with the popular MMO titles, which is one of two main reasons why I hate them so much (The other is a lack of an offline function, because I often like to play by myself). Then I would not buy it. I'd much rather only pay once just to buy the game and not pay again to continue playing it.


----------



## Rilvor (May 10, 2008)

Weapon Yoshi said:


> While I personally despise MMO style games with a passion, I would so second this. Mainly because I'm a big pokÃ©fag.
> 
> Unless they do the pay-to-play subscription shit like with the popular MMO titles, which is one of two main reasons why I hate them so much (The other is a lack of an offline function, because I often like to play by myself). Then I would not buy it. I'd much rather only pay once just to buy the game and not pay again to continue playing it.



I'd be the first asshole sitting outside the beginner place with a Muk or something and harassing all the newbs with their starters.


----------



## Takun (May 10, 2008)

Rilvor said:


> I'd be the first asshole sitting outside the beginner place with a Muk or something and harassing all the newbs with their starters.



/w Rilvor What the hell man?  I'm just trying to level my Rattata go bother someone else.


----------



## skulltoe (May 12, 2008)

Greyscale said:


> Naw, i'm using what isk I have for trading. Besides, I just bought a HAC so i'm a little low on funds.
> 
> What is your name in EVE? I'm Athena Nyx.



I'm culmor30 in EVE, I'll add you as soon as I can get on again. Might not be within the next week though, but there's an ok chance.


----------



## Lenny (May 13, 2008)

skulltoe said:


> I'm going to recommend to you EVE Online. It's very thought-provoking and deep, and very different from all of those D&D knockoffs you see everywhere. It has a pretty decent storyline and an enormous universe. WoW can't even compare in world size. And there are no "levels" for your character, you focus on leveling the skills you need to. And leveling is not an hour-by-hour grinding process, instead, you just right click > Train the skill. It can take a long time, but it trains while you're logged out, and even while you run out of subscription . There are near infinite quests to do, and it'll keep you entertained for quite a while. Oh, and the graphics are awesome.
> 
> --End sales pitch--



I play too, in Goonfleet.  In addition to what skulltoe said, I'd like to add that *Eve Online is a griefer's paradise*.

Killing other players is guarded against in some areas but possible everywhere, and almost none of the usual restrictions on behavior exist.  You may lie, cheat, steal from, scam, infiltrate or sabotage anyone or any group you please with the full blessing of the devs.  Eve is also very unforgiving regarding loss of resources and many players treat the game as Serious Business, so opportunities to drive your fellow man into an apoplectic rage are numerous and rewarding.

Out in the wilds beyond the protected systems, thousand-strong corporate alliances engage in endless territory wars that are as much about hardball politics, spying and backstabbing as shooting lasers.  

In the middle zone between player-contested space and carebear land, pirates like Greyscale lurk, waiting to attack the weak and careless at system gates and in asteroid belts.

In the 'safe' NPC empires, suicide ships ambush transport vessels foolish enough to carry cargo worth more than the attacker's investment.

...And best of all, no matter where you are, if your organization is of any size or importance it is guaranteed that one or more of your brothers in arms are not what they seem.  One of them might even be me. :twisted:


----------



## Azure (May 13, 2008)

Oh lord, Goonfleet is in da haus!!  While I only played for a short while, I heard about ya'll.  Hows the fight against BOB going?


----------



## Greyscale (May 13, 2008)

So, it is true that half of Goonfleet are Furries...

Interesting...


----------



## Azure (May 13, 2008)

Greyscale said:


> So, it is true that half of Goonfleet are Furries...
> 
> Interesting...


Half of ALL GOONS are furries.  Nuff said :coolbert:


----------



## DragonRift (May 13, 2008)

Honestly, the MMOs that are out now are enough.

Why do developers insist that there are players that are willing to up and drop the game they've already invested hundreds of dollars in fees just to start all over again, pay more fees, and later grow bored with it in less than a year?

The amount of effort that's being poured out into MMOs nowadays, I'd much rather see them release a stellar single-player RPG that rivals the qualities of the 2006 hit, *Oblivion*.  When newer MMOs like *Tabula Rasa* and *Lord of the Rings Online* aren't even making up 1.5% of the entire MMO crowd, what makes you think upcoming ones like *Age of Conan* will be able to break in so easily?

Yeah, there's *WarHammer Online* which has been a highly anticipated one for some time...  Just think about this.  Just how much money are you willing to shell out on characters that will inevitably be erased from existence over time, with nothing physically present to show for it afterwards?

A few MMOs are fine.  We don't need thirty of them.  Please, stop making more.


----------



## skulltoe (May 13, 2008)

Hah, goonfleet. Never actually seen anyone from your group in space. I was considering joining, but I love my current corp too much. I'm in Lords of Kaos, VERY small corp. We're legal pirates. Just wardec'd 2 hapless miner corps for the fun of it, war starts tonight actually. I needa get on and pwn some noobs :]

Strange that SA bashes furries so much yet half of them are being hypocritical.


----------



## JAK3ST3RB (May 13, 2008)

speaking of mmo's i used to play runescape...
*shoots self with desert eagle*


----------



## Lenny (May 14, 2008)

As a goon and a furry, I


----------



## Takun (May 14, 2008)

*goes to check out EvE...*


----------



## Lenny (May 14, 2008)

But seriously, we squashed BoB down to a fucking single region and they didn't fall apart, so we backed off and they live to fight another day.  Part of that is due to the broken nature of titans.  Part of it is due to their dedication.

Because that's how you destroy alliances.  You don't do it by killing ships in Valiant Battle.  You do it by killing their organization and leading their squawking followers down the primrose path of the failure cascade.  BoB are the poopsockingest losers in the game, however, and it's difficult to get such people to give up the E-ghost.  Maybe next time.





skulltoe said:


> Strange that SA bashes furries so much yet half of them are being hypocritical.



The number of furries on SA is actually relatively low.  Except in the G.I.A.  We're all about the yiff.


----------



## Azure (May 14, 2008)

Lenny said:


> But seriously, we squashed BoB down to a fucking single region and they didn't fall apart, so we backed off and they live to fight another day.  Part of that is due to the broken nature of titans.  Part of it is due to their dedication.
> 
> Because that's how you destroy alliances.  You don't do it by killing ships in Valiant Battle.  You do it by killing their organization and leading their squawking followers down the primrose path of the failure cascade.  BoB are the poopsockingest losers in the game, however, and it's difficult to get such people to give up the E-ghost.  Maybe next time.
> 
> ...


I may have to join up, once I get my life back in order.  I miss MMO games.  I need a better comp to begin with, but it's good to hear that shit talkers like BOB got what was coming to them.  Long live the griefers!!


----------



## Greyscale (May 14, 2008)

Goonswarm is overrated, of course I think the same thing about most 0.0 alliances. 

Azure, if you ever do start playing I have a list of some good corps you could join.


----------



## Azure (May 14, 2008)

Cool, gimme about a good month or two, as I'm in the process of moving, but I'll definitely get back in there.  I hafta dig up my old char as well, I see if it can't be done.  I don't even remember what I have.


----------



## Ishnuvalok (May 14, 2008)

Hm, I'm probably going to get back into EVE: Online during the summer when I got alot of time on my hands.


----------



## Xaerun (May 14, 2008)

I hear you there. But, my first and foremost gripe with MMORPGs these days is they don't have the classes I love. At least the ones easily available in Australia don't.

I like to play an agility melee class, but NOT a stealthy, cloak-and-dagger class. No, more of a Blademaster sort of thing. Very fond of flips, dodging and dual-wielding, and if it's possible (not that it ever is) a little heal on the side. The most important thing is for the class to be able to hold their own. Preferably not a main tank, but off-tank is tolerable.

WoW: Druid is the closest I've came, and I don't particularly like playing a Tauren (I'm Horde because everyone I know is Horde). My favourite Horde race is Blood Elf. So, their class selection is Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Priest, Mage, Warlock. Spellcasters are out because a couple of good slaps and they're dead, Rogue is the cloak-and-dagger style that doesn't work with me, Hunters are pet-based (not a good reliance, if you ask me) in melee terms. Paladins are actually quite good, I don't mind them at all. But, with the Blood Elf Paladin rush, every man and his dog has one. Plus, why the hell can every other class get a ranged attack but Paladins? But, they're the closest I can get.

Ragnarok Online did it really well. I play a Monk, and they're EXACTLY what I wanted. But, next to no quests (massive grind fest), a choice between slow and insanely fast levelling, and the admittedly cute yet annoyingly basic graphics are a bit of a let down. But, in my humble opinion it scores higher than WoW.

Everquest 2: Looks ideal. But, not easily obtainable where I live. EB doesn't seem interested for some strange reason, and K-Mart, Big W and Target? Forget about it!

Lunia: No. Just no.

Maple Story annoys the absolute piss out of me for some strange reason, I don't know why. It just doesn't click...

So, I'm still looking for 'the perfect MMORPG'. Preferably NOT one that encourages real money/game (money, experience, items..) as that just becomes a battle of 'who has the bigger wallet' rather than a battle of skill.



			
				DragonRift said:
			
		

> Honestly, the MMOs that are out now are enough.
> 
> Why do developers insist that there are players that are willing to up and drop the game they've already invested hundreds of dollars in fees just to start all over again, pay more fees, and later grow bored with it in less than a year?
> 
> ...


Absolutely. But the ones that are out need a bit of a tweak, in my opinion. And I do need a new single player game to amuse myself... Got any suggestions? Preferably PS3?


----------



## Wait Wait (May 14, 2008)

oblivion was nothing compared to morrowind

now, an MMO set in the morrowind world would be delicious

also, I play WoW and am greatly looking forward to WotLK


----------



## ~furfanatic~ (May 14, 2008)

FrisbeeRolf said:


> Another major problem with most every MMO I've seen thus far is, controls and game play.  Mainly speaking of "point and click" RPGs.  My God how I hate those words.  Point and click is clumsy and very awkward; it inhibits fast response time and ultimately kills real time combat.  And guess what is the norm in MMORPGs?  You got it, "point and click".  Why can't MMOs work completely on the keyboard?  If MMOs were turn based, point and click might work out rather well.  However I highly doubt a turn based MMO will ever exist.  Not that it couldn't,  I just doubt any game makers will have the guts to try it.



Very true,thats why I play Online FPS games now rather than clicking my mouse to oblivion just to level up...unless I have a level BOT


----------



## Wait Wait (May 14, 2008)

dofus is a turn based MMO

it's pretty good, actually

has a fairly large free trial game area too
http://www.dofus.com/en

though i stopped playing a while ago, as i don't want to pay


----------



## Takun (May 14, 2008)

~furfanatic~ said:


> Very true,thats why I play Online FPS games now rather than clicking my mouse to oblivion just to level up...unless I have a level BOT



Aww but I loved pvp at 60 on WoW with my mage.  Elemental spec was fun^^


----------



## Ishnuvalok (May 14, 2008)

Takumi_L said:


> Aww but I loved pvp at 60 on WoW with my mage.  Elemental spec was fun^^



Mages don't have Elemental spec....thats shamans.


----------



## Takun (May 14, 2008)

Ishnuvalok said:


> Mages don't have Elemental spec....thats shamans.



Elemental is a mage term meaning both into Fire and Frost.  It worked great at 60 bgs.


----------



## Lenny (May 15, 2008)

ShadowKnuckles said:


> I like to play an agility melee class, but NOT a stealthy, cloak-and-dagger class. No, more of a Blademaster sort of thing. Very fond of flips, dodging and dual-wielding, and if it's possible (not that it ever is) a little heal on the side. The most important thing is for the class to be able to hold their own. Preferably not a main tank, but off-tank is tolerable.



You'd love either of the brawler classes in EQ2, or perhaps a brigand.  Try purchasing it online.  There is apparently a community channel at guk.furry, but you may expect it to be "quiet unless the Unrest people are on."




Let me add a couple warnings to people who are thinking about looking into Eve:  

*1. It will bore you to death if you don't find a good corp. * 
Contrary to the impression I gave earlier, players who spend their time killing NPCs in high-security areas are mostly safe from the game's PvP aspects.  They are also completely safe from any of its fun.

Eve starts with a 3-hour tutorial that dumps you in space with a tiny ship, little earning potential and no real clue what to do next except grind missions.  There's a community of players who stick to doing just that, but unless you're the 'care bear type' who enjoys performing repetitive tasks while chatting, you're likely to grow bored and quit.  Jumping into a good corp from the get-go circumvents this.


*2. Goonfleet is full of goons.*
Anyone with a 3+ month old SA account can get into it and it's one of the best deals going for a new player; you go from the tutorial straight to fighting alliance wars in a free cheap ship, and newbies are always both useful and welcome.  

HOWEVER.

It is neither a furry-friendly nor a family-type community.  If aggressive trolling, insults, vulgar language or racist humor bother you, don't apply.  You can mitigate it with channel choice and blocking, but you will never completely escape the subset that considers declaring everyone around them to be Jews, faggots, spies and niggers to be the pinnacle of sophisticated comedy, and no one will tell them to be nice to you.  

And that's just among the regular members; God help you should you openly declare yourself to be a furry.  If you absolutely have to let your fur flag fly, you might try joining up, lying low while gaining some skills, then applying over to Duragon Pioneer Group.  With that tag over your ship no one will believe that you _aren't._


----------



## skulltoe (May 16, 2008)

> Eve starts with a 3-hour tutorial that dumps you in space with a tiny ship, little earning potential and no real clue what to do next except grind missions.



It only took me one hour...


----------



## Evel Kniegro (May 16, 2008)

skulltoe said:


> It only took me one hour...



Hell, tell him it's six hours and the old players have to do it too so he'll drop the pew-pew nonsense and come play EQ2 with me.

Smell the coffee, you obstreperous fuzzball: the swarm is half pubbies now including the director (LAFFO), there hasn't been decent drama since Remedial left, and all the shit you were whining about when you dropped EQ has been fixed or improved.  So let's go kill some orcs!


----------



## skulltoe (May 16, 2008)

> Smell the coffee, you obstreperous fuzzball:



Obstreperous? You are so scholarly and learned... what's it mean? I like it


----------



## Evel Kniegro (May 16, 2008)

*Goonfleet '08:  Year Of The Bland*

It means he's a cranky kitty.  ...And a complete retard for continuing to play 007 for what's rapidly turning into BoB 2.0 when he could be being powerlevelled in Everquest RIGHT THIS MINUTE.


----------



## virus (May 16, 2008)

There was once a time when MMORPGs didn't suck. Oh I remember the days being sucked onto a screen for 23 hours leaving my computer on for months ready to log back into the game.

What happened is, everyone is trying to copy everyone else. Instead of create something completely different. All the good games have been fucked with so much they suck now. Some of them don't even exist anymore.

The problem I have with MMO's is the monthly fee. Which why guild wars was kick ass when it first came out. Guild wars sucks so much now because people bitched and moaned. My Warrior/Air mage was killed thanks to these people and I ended up deleting him. They tweaked so many of the skills he became udderly pointless.

I left that game saddened but attempted to play again once the first expansion came out, which I did. Disappointed once again when they twinked the assassin class. I left the game entirely.

Maplestory is lol. I can't stand the stupid megaphone and the fact you can't turn CHAT channels off. 
Maplestory wasn't too bad when it first came out in a US version.

Change destroys most games we know and love into garbage.


----------



## Lenny (May 17, 2008)

*Re: Goonfleet '08:  Year Of The Bland*



Evel Kniegro said:


> PLAY EQ



I seem to remember having this conversation in reverse when I was playing EQ and you were obsessed with trolling Usenet.  The fact is that even an upgraded EQ2 can't match the joy of running amok in a paradise of violent social darwinism.  If the fleet's slide into Publand goes too far I'll leave on good terms and toddle over to GHSC.

As a further advertisement for Eve, I present a re-hosted version of the SA thread that attracted my interest.  You'll need an archive-enabled account to read the original version linked on the right side of the page, however.
The Great Scam


----------



## skulltoe (May 18, 2008)

Speaking of EVE, this won't be of any relevance to any one who doesn't play it, but...

Today my corp and I were running around ganking in lowsec. I heard my friend over vent say "new contact: Athena Nyx". I had been waiting for him/her(lol) to get on for a while, and they were in the same system as us. Just to piss my corp off, we had a little convo in local. They got soooo angry . But yeah, what are the odds of that happening?


----------



## Greyscale (May 18, 2008)

skulltoe said:


> Speaking of EVE, this won't be of any relevance to any one who doesn't play it, but...
> 
> Today my corp and I were running around ganking in lowsec. I heard my friend over vent say "new contact: Athena Nyx". I had been waiting for him/her(lol) to get on for a while, and they were in the same system as us. Just to piss my corp off, we had a little convo in local. They got soooo angry . But yeah, what are the odds of that happening?



Supprisingly high actually, I've seen all sorts of people in EVE.

Anywho, we should create a FA chat channel.


----------



## Inky Neko (May 19, 2008)

The only MMORPG I play is WoW and that's because my boyfriend talked me in to it. There are a few states between us, so it's nice to have something to do together. It's not perfect, and leveling gets boring, but it's not terrible. As far as plot, it helped me to read the history of the world. Races are less-than-original, except the Draenei. I have yet to see anything quite like them elsewhere. They're probably my favorite race. I don't think I'll ever get totally sucked into it, I've got too much stuff to do elsewhere and I don't have as much fun playing with people I don't know.
Table top, now, _that's_ fun. Since, you know, it gives you a bit of a guideline, but you can really do almost anything. I've played Vampire the Masquerade a few times, I'm not super into vampires, but let me tell you, the idea of playing a random crazy bloodsucker who could fight with twisted stuffed animals attracted me. XD;


----------



## SurlyOrcPunk (Jul 23, 2008)

I play WoW myself and I do think that alot of the players are pretty immature, even on the so called "RP" or "RPPvP"... It's ashame that alot of MMORPG's get tainted by idiots. As far as WoW goes, it's overrated and I like to play it. 

Just so many dam kids thinking they know everything about it cause they play for 4 days straight.

Table Top Role Playing is fun. I highly enjoy doing that.


----------



## Mc_Jack (Jul 23, 2008)

Wow is for me XD
helps after a long day at work


----------



## Vesuro (Jul 23, 2008)

I play a lot of Eve, am currently in a GBC alliance: EXE.  Everyone else who does, join my Eve Megathread. 

It always surprises me how much shit BoB get (I know I'm biased since I'm their ally) for shit talking, when the Goons are just as bad, if not worse, and the North are getting that way as well.

Also, on the subject of cost, because I play Eve I probably buy significantly fewer games, so whilst it is a $250 game, it's worth it in savings.

Plus, if I ever decided to quit, I could probably liquidate my assets into significantly more than $250. I have at least 10 bil ISK in items and ships.


----------

