# How do you feel about people hating children?



## Zabrina (Apr 5, 2013)

Hey, guys.


Over the past few years I've realized that some people say, "I hate kids, so loud and annoying."


How do you feel about children?


I myself personally believe that if you hate children, you never were one. I find some of them charming and cute. Although I won't judge people who dislike them. I myself do hate babies. :/


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## Kalmor (Apr 5, 2013)

Depends on the age.

Babies are fine, but their cries annoy the heck out of me.
Toddlers are sometimes adorable but there're others that are just unbeable.
Anything older than that is generally a no no.

Oh, and I did have a childhood and I also have a younger brother I helped care for. I just don't like most children because they just get on my nerves.


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## Vaelarsa (Apr 5, 2013)

I hate babies.
HAAAAATE.

I've grown more tolerant of children over the years.
The brattier, screamier ones can still stay the fuck away from me, but a calm child or toddler that actually listens and doesn't throw massive fits is fine.

And you can hate things you once were.
I hate what I used to be in high school. I don't understand why a person _couldn't _hate something that is or was associated with them at some point. Makes no sense.


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## Troj (Apr 5, 2013)

I used to hate children (especially when I *was* a child), and now I'm rather fond of them.  At their best, children are inquisitive, enthusiastic, honest, eager to learn, and passionate about life, in a way too few adults are.

I'm not overly into toddlers and babies, though. They're fine, but I'm not in a hurry to babysit them, because I prefer kids I can *talk* to.

Of course, I don't like spoiled brats, screamers, dumb-dumbs, or prima donnas of any age.

I tend to get along best with "gifted and talented" children with above-average IQs, and/or higher-functioning children on the autism spectrum. 

Rule of thumb: if we can have a good, solid conversation, everything will be OK. If we can't hold a conversation, shit's probably going to be awkward a lot.


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## DarrylWolf (Apr 6, 2013)

Every time I get annoyed by children, I remember this- I like children and I used to be one.


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## Hinalle K. (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't hate 'em, but I'm sure everyone's met at least one impossibly obnoxious brat in their life.


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## Rheumatism (Apr 6, 2013)

I hate children.


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 6, 2013)

It depends on the child for me. No two are exactly alike.


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## Zenia (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't *hate* them... but I don't like them in the slightest either.


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## Percy (Apr 6, 2013)

Most children ARE loud and annoying. Yet obviously there are the respectable ones, whom I can tolerate just perfectly fine.


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## PsychicOtter (Apr 6, 2013)

I actually like kids for the most part, although I'm sure there are some brats out there that would get on my nerves.  I have a friend who despises children, which I can sort of understand, even if I feel differently.


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## Teal (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't like children, but I don't hate them.


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## Lucy Bones (Apr 6, 2013)

Some people just hate kids. Nothing really wrong with it, as long as they don't go out and make a few of them into a shish kabob.


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## Dreaming (Apr 6, 2013)

Zabrina said:


> "I hate kids, so loud and annoying."


Classic use of unnecessarily strong words to emphasize a point, what they mean is "kids are so load and annoying" but they feel it's necessary to really nail down how much so =P

To be honest, I find it hard not to dislike the vast majority of them. I don't know if the 'You never were one if you hate them" argument has any ground here, if anything the experience would give you a greater reason to "hate" kids


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## Ricky (Apr 6, 2013)

How do I feel about people hating kids?

I agree with them :lol:


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## Magick (Apr 6, 2013)

It all depends on how they behave and act towards other people, so it's a case by case deal for me.

That said, if I hear another ten year old say either 'yolo' or 'swag' I may very well have an aneurysm on the spot.


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## Artillery Spam (Apr 6, 2013)

Kids are people too. 

There are some people that I like and some people that I hate.


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## TigerBeacon (Apr 6, 2013)

I actually like kids, but I rarely have the patience to tolerate them when they aren't on their 'best behavior'. And best behavior, as far as children are concerned, shouldn't be something you expect from them.


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## Llamapotamus (Apr 6, 2013)

Lacking in tolerance is completely understandable, whereas hatred is completely unnecessary.


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## CaptainCool (Apr 6, 2013)

I hate _annoying_ children. But then again, who doesn't hate annoying people in general?
Other than that I don't really have a problem with kids. I really just hate those loud annoying bastards who start to drink with 14, break shit and just behave like total dicks.

As for people who hate _all_ children, I agree with you. There has to be something wrong with them or they must have had a pretty terrible childhood.


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## Judge Spear (Apr 6, 2013)

Guess I wasn't a kid...


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## TheMetalVelocity (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't like kids D: Most of them are annoying, especially when they make noises and run around in supermarkets, then almost run right into you. The adults get blamed for why they get hurt, when the parents are suppose to be watching them.


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## Batty Krueger (Apr 6, 2013)

Sometimes when I help my mother shop for groceries we'll see a kid screaming and throwing a complete fucking tantrum for whatever reason. Then my mom will look over at me with a bright smile on her face saying something along the lines of "thank you so much for not ever acting like a little shit like that".  Everytime she says that I always get a warm feeling in my chest, knowing I never put my mom through that kind of hell.

If children are well behaved I don't have a problem whatsoever with them.  A few of my best friends have kids and we all get along pretty well, especially when I teach them how to beat the 'hard' parts in their favorite video games or let them kick my ass at any other game.  The look on their faces when they beat me at video/board games is priceless.

I do admit being called 'Uncle Josh' the first dozen or so times was awkward, then I realized my age and think to myself  "holy shit, I'm an uncle".  I basically am these kids uncle considering my friends and their wives don't have any siblings and I'm perfectly ok with that. So it's kind of nice knowing they have somewhat of an uncle.

Long story longer, people should not hate kids as long as they aren't the kid from the Problem Child movies. The only reason I will completely avoid children is when I'm in my fursuit at cons or any other events. I don't want to accidently knock them over and I don't want their dirty snot fingers touching my expensive suit.


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## DrDingo (Apr 6, 2013)

I think it's possible for anyone to be annoying, and naturally children are no exception; however they are often annoying because they don't know better yet. They'll learn in time what is socially acceptable and what is not. The real problem is if they are still annoying and bratty when they are older.


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## Schwimmwagen (Apr 6, 2013)

I hate shitty children just as much as the next, I don't like them unconditionally.

But really I like to avoid children. I just can't get on with them or interact with them. If they're especially young it's like I'm talking to a dog or something and I don't know what to do.

But if they're like 8 and up or something like that, it's mostly pretty okay. Though I still avoid them in case I rub off on them somehow and then a parent complains to me.


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## Mullerornis (Apr 6, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> It depends on the child for me. No two are exactly alike.



Pretty much this. Believe it or not, they're actually individuals with distinct personalities. Shocking, isn't it?


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## TigerBeacon (Apr 6, 2013)

That's just the thing about children- young enough, they're still learning and impressionable, and with the right supervision would grow up to be relatively well-behaved. Which is why, when it comes to problem-children, I tend to get annoyed at their parents/caretakers more than the children themselves. At the age that they are, they are toeing the limits of how far they can extend their behavior, and- believe it or not- DO expect their parents to tell them "That's enough. That's not acceptable," because otherwise they won't have a clear line that divides 'good' or 'bad'. The more parents let them get away with shit, the more they'll do it knowing they won't suffer repercussions, assuming its okay. And parents need the foresight as well to know where and when its okay to bring them in public, as a disobedient child is as much a danger to themselves as well as everyone else, even if the most that ever comes out of danger is just some extreme annoyance. 

I have this uncle who has two grandkids. Pretty nice kids, but their behavior is marred by the fact that their uncle is a chronic alcoholic, and wherever he brings them, its other people who tend to look after them, and usually they aren't people that should be looking after kids int he first place (i.e: other alcoholics/ smokers/ etc). As a result, they pick up a lot of bad language and mannerisms (like stealing and saying "FUCK" really loud), on top of my uncle spoiling them rotten by giving them whatever they want from the store and pretty much beating the shit out of anyone that makes them cry (he flipped a guy off a chair because he was chastising one of them. CHASTISING- just talking- didn't touch her AT ALL), so they get away with a lot of bad behavior. An as much as I want to be a more positive influence, I have too many of my own problems that's wearing away at my own patience, and just being around them wears me out as well as having to deal with their unreasonable grandfather.


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## M. LeRenard (Apr 6, 2013)

I can't deal with kids.  I dunno'.  Teenagers, fine, but anyone under, like, 12 is just completely beyond me.  In some ways it's less that I hate children, and a lot more that children hate me.  Or are afraid of me.  That happens a lot, too.
I think the only little children I can deal with are the really super smart ones, because then you can almost talk to them like adults.  And, actually, the opposite end of the spectrum is fine too, for some reason (severe to mildly retarded children; they can be a lot of fun).  But, say, the target demographic of Dora the Explorer I just can't handle.  If I ever have kids of my own, my wife can raise them.  Whatever.



			
				d.batty said:
			
		

> The only reason I will completely avoid children is when I'm in my fursuit at cons or any other events.


I read this as "The only reason I will completely avoid children is if I'm dressed up like a cartoon bat."  Furries, you amuse me sometimes.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 6, 2013)

I think kids are fine...when they're well behaved. When you have a kid who says "what's this" and breaks things or yells and throws a fit in public, it pisses me off. I then start thinking, "where are his/her parents, and how bad of a job must they be doing?" Crying babies, annoying yes, but you can't help it. Crying, spoiled toddlers...parents fault. Why is it that so many people have kids who shouldn't, while so many don't would make great parents?

I want kids in the future, but I'll try my hardest not to make them turn out like some of the brats I see running around...whether they be 8 or 18. (By the way...yelling "in-jokes" in public is not funny furries, it makes you look like the children I don't like).

Still, I get the feeling that some furries don't like kids because they don't want them and don't want to be married, so they can keep doing all their weird furry stuff (open e-relationships, going to twenty cons a year and not being an artist, being a drama-collector, etc). But that's a small minority. Most people just hate kids because those kid's parents are assholes.


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## Troj (Apr 6, 2013)

*Tigerbeacon* and others have introduced a critical point, which is that most (though not all) evil, nasty children are that way because of their shitty fucking guardians. I do know evil children with excellent parents, but they appear to be fewer and further between than the ones who are just doing what they know how to do, because no one's told or taught them how to be or do otherwise.

Remembering this helps me to feel at least some dollop of empathy for children whom I might otherwise want to strangle with their own shoelaces.


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## Rilvor (Apr 6, 2013)

How I feel about people who hate children? I sympathize with their feelings of being a tad bit fed-up with poorly raised children, and wonder if they might have spent some time working retail.

I understand that children only know as much as they are taught, so I don't blame the children for being the way they are as much as I blame the guardian. I still do not like obnoxious, bratty children as I find them annoying. In general I am aloof towards children, but to a much lesser extent than I am to adults. There are some children that hand me things with the most adorable smiles at work, afterall.

I like children I can talk to, or I can see some intelligence or creativity in. In general I have less problems with children than some; Often when they see me they go quiet and do that curious stare or hide behind their parent's leg. Either way, I find it very cute and make it a point to smile. Parent's reactions vary haha.


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## CannonFodder (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't hate kids.  I hate that for a while since I'm so good at taking care of kids that people would just drop off their bratty screamer kids with me and expect me to take care of them.  You can talk screamers into calming down, without even needing to threaten spanking them, it just takes a ton of patience.  Like my two nephews turns out have autism, from their dad side, and spanking them wouldn't get them to stop screaming or anything.  They would scream for hours and hours.  With two autistic kids that scream you HAVE to get them to calm down first, cause spanking them does jack shit.  Contrary to what so many people tend to think, kids are actually smart and just cause a kid is autistic doesn't mean they're stupid or anything.  It doesn't mean they have to go to special ed or kept from doing normal kid activities, it just mean you have to have a ton of patience when raising them.  The advice I have for people is if you do have kids and one of them is autistic then until they grow up don't have any more for the time being, cause taking care of them and another newborn kid as well most people don't have that much patience and will be ripping their hair out from stress.  Just constantly spanking them only makes it much much worse.


As for will I have kids?  Maybe one day.  I'm not really looking to date anyone right now, cause I'm about to move and am going to be starting off in the work force.  My short term goals are to pay off my school debt then start transitioning, but hold off on the vaginoplasty so that if I do meet someone we can have kids(and also have sperm frozen just in case).  Once she is pregnant then get the final surgery, buy a small three bedroom house.  If there is anything I have learned from the crazy relationship problems of my family members it is sometimes two people in a relationship do need a cool off period if they are stressed and that even people that are similar do have still have fights and having kids does cause stress whenever the kid is misbehaving.  However the most important thing when it comes to both raising children and being married is patience and ability to talk things out and compromise before things become problems.


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## Schwimmwagen (Apr 6, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> spanking them wouldn't get them to stop screaming or anything.



are you fucking seriously wondering why that didn't work


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## CannonFodder (Apr 6, 2013)

Gibby said:


> are you fucking seriously wondering why that didn't work


No, I wasn't saying that I was spanking them.  My sister was the one that didn't understand why spanking a autistic kid doesn't make them stop screaming.  Now that she's older and understands there's more to parenting than just spanking your kids her kids are much better behaved and she's a lot better at taking care of them.

Like when they were younger she didn't understand why I could talk them into calming down and would just hand them off to me.  It finally got through her skull, "Hmm my brother can get them to calm down by talking to them, whereas when I spank them they continue to scream.  Maybe I should getting them to calm down as well instead of just spanking them?" and big shocker they started behaving better.

Moral of the story, don't have kids as a young teenager.  Chances are you aren't ready to take care of them or know enough about parenting to do so.


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## Troj (Apr 6, 2013)

Kids having kids= complete unmitigated disaster.

I have to sigh and shudder when the children I work with ask how old I am, and chirp, "My mommy's younger than you!"

Your mum's also dating a guy called T-Dawg, and she feeds you Doritos tacos locos and coca-cola for breakfast.


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## Dragonfurry (Apr 6, 2013)

Personally i dont hate kids, heck some of them are bright and actually tolerable.

But most of the kids i dont like at all.


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## Recel (Apr 6, 2013)

It depends. Tho I mostly dislike talking to children (as much as I talk anyway).

Sometimes it's like building a rock mountain. Out of sand. With your bare hands. In the middle of the ocean. With sharks chasing you. With advanced plasma rifles, in combat suits. Riding giant octopuses. Equipped with heat seeking missiles. Filled with paralyzing substance. While you are tied to a floating plank. With rusty nails sticking out. Naked. And most of all... you really, really have to pee.

Other times it's fine and cute.


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## Sutekh_the_Destroyer (Apr 6, 2013)

So long as they don't start screaming the house down they're fine by me.


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## Tigercougar (Apr 6, 2013)

I like kids that I can hold a conversation with. If I ever decide I want a kid, I'll adopt a 10-12 year old.

Absolutely ZERO patience for changing diapers or temper tantrums.


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## whiteskunk (Apr 6, 2013)

No need to single out an age group, gender or ethnic group. I hate everybody equally.


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## Batty Krueger (Apr 6, 2013)

M. LeRenard said:


> I read this as "The only reason I will completely avoid children is if I'm dressed up like a cartoon bat."  Furries, you amuse me sometimes.


Well technically, I _am_â€‹ a fursuiter XD


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 6, 2013)

d.batty said:


> Well technically, I _am_â€‹ a fursuiter XD



Besides, I think that's a wise decision unless a person is going to charity work like Fay V.


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## Lhune (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm the same as Gibby pretty much. Kids under a certain age just make me feel uneasy, I never really know how to communicate with them without insulting their intelligence or acting too adult.

I also had a perfectly fine childhood. I think it's more that I was the youngest so I never had a younger sibling to care for. The next youngest cousin was 7 years younger than me and I rarely saw them, so perhaps it's just a lack of exposure to kids or a lack of interest for them that makes me dislike them. Hate is too strong a word and I don't think I'd be a bad mother but I have no desire for kids of my own for a variety of reasons.


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## Lucy Bones (Apr 6, 2013)

I eat babies.


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## Judge Spear (Apr 6, 2013)

Only times I give a shit about any kid under the age of 16:

1) They are wronged by someone i.e. hurt physically, sexually, emotionally. I get pissed because why the FUCK would you do that? I can't stand kids which is why I try to _avoid_ them. Not hurt them.

2) A younger one drops their ice cream. Q^Q
I fucking hate seeing that happen and the few times I've seen a little kid lick their scoop of soft serve onto the ground, I almost want to cry with them. It's one the most painful events to witness.

Other than that, leave me the shit alone...


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## Azure (Apr 6, 2013)

punk rock said it best

and i always was a fan of a modest proposal


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## Demensa (Apr 6, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> 2) A younger one drops their ice cream. Q^Q
> I fucking hate seeing that happen and the few times I've seen a little kid lick their scoop of soft serve onto the ground, I almost want to cry with them. It's one the most painful events to witness.



I hate this so much. It's the same with any type of food really.  Little kids always have a really weak grip on things and get distracted so easily. 

I find that as with anyone, I tend to maintain a fairly neutral disposition towards kids until I become emotionally attached to them (like younger brothers, relatives, etc.).
I have trouble talking to young children, because I really have nothing to say to them without sounding stupid. To top it off, I don't know how to comfort people or deal with temper tantrums, meltdowns, etc. so I try to stay away from children.


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## Mittens (Apr 6, 2013)

Kids don't bother me, I just don't like being around them.


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## Artillery Spam (Apr 6, 2013)

Lucy Bones said:


> I eat babies.



You sick bastard.


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## Ixtu (Apr 6, 2013)

Zenia said:


> I don't *hate* them... but I don't like them in the slightest either.



Stole the words  right out of my mouth!


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## Golden (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't mind kids and I generally get along with most of the people I meet, but adolescents tend to piss me off. However, as long as you're not pretentious, or sex-obsessed, or an idiot, you're on good terms with me.


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## Aleu (Apr 7, 2013)

"You can't hate what you used to be" is the most absurd and stupidest argument I've heard in a while. So a reformed criminal can't hate what he used to be? What a load of shit. What the fuck does it matter if I used to be a kid? I mean how can you possibly justify that retarded notion?


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## Judge Spear (Apr 7, 2013)

A little more venomous than I would have worded, but I agree. I never did get that logic. It's not like I'll ever BE a kid again...which is actually sad to think about. ;-;


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## Tigercougar (Apr 7, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> A little more venomous than I would have worded, but I agree. I never did get that logic. It's not like I'll ever BE a kid again...which is actually sad to think about. ;-;



That actually makes me happy. Adulthood means MANY more responsibilities, but also MUCH more control over your life.


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## Judge Spear (Apr 7, 2013)

But the innocence and nostalgia of childhood. Q-Q
I don't think I can have fond memories like that anymore, even if it's of stuff I'm no longer interested in. But I can see it both ways.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 7, 2013)

I'll say it again: It seems some furries hate children only because they don't want them. If they had children, that means they can't be perverted 24-7 anymore, they can't live in 10 simultaneous e-relationships, and can't go to 20 cons a year. It means they have to grow up and be mature, and we don't want that, do we?

EDIT: I'm not talking about people posting in this thread. I'm talking about some mainsite people.


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## CannonFodder (Apr 7, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I'll say it again: It seems some furries hate children only because they don't want them. If they had children, that means they can't be perverted 24-7 anymore, they can't live in 10 simultaneous e-relationships, and can't go to 20 cons a year. It means they have to grow up and be mature, and we don't want that, do we?


The problem solves itself in that case.


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## Aleu (Apr 7, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I'll say it again: It seems some furries hate children only because they don't want them. If they had children, that means they can't be perverted 24-7 anymore, they can't live in 10 simultaneous e-relationships, and can't go to 20 cons a year. It means they have to grow up and be mature, and we don't want that, do we?



I don't fit under any of these and yet I still hate children. There's a multitude of reasons why I don't want children. Hating them is just one aspect. I also don't feel like physically restricting myself for 9 months all for the sake of a parasite that may or may not be worth it. It's also nothing about not wanting to care for something either. I'd much rather get a cat. They're more adorable, less annoying, and less expensive.


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## Rilvor (Apr 7, 2013)

My goodness, we're getting a bit edgy in here aren't we? I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, considering the topic will draw people filled with rash thoughts.


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## Lhune (Apr 7, 2013)

*waves* Another "I'd rather have a cat"-person here. I'm not even a furry so none of those things really apply to me, but the reason behind it is indeed pretty much right. A child demands an immense amount of responsibility, time, money and energy. While I think I could handle the responsibility part, the other three are negatives that for me right now are outweighing the positives by far. Because honestly, what ARE the positives? The "love and affection" you get from a child? I get that from my boyfriend and pets, enough to be happy. The fact that you have someone to pass on your genes? Couldn't care less about them. Having someone to take care of you when you're old? That's just freakin' selfish and _so_ not worth the effort.

Nope, I'll just be a lovely aunt.


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 7, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I'll say it again: It seems some furries hate children only because they don't want them. If they had children, that means they can't be perverted 24-7 anymore, they can't live in 10 simultaneous e-relationships, and can't go to 20 cons a year. It means they have to grow up and be mature, and we don't want that, do we?



Aren't the majority of furries really young? Like 18-24? Surprise, surprise, they aren't interested in having a family.


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## Aleu (Apr 7, 2013)

Rilvor said:


> My goodness, we're getting a bit edgy in here aren't we? I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, considering the topic will draw people filled with rash thoughts.



Oh, I forgot. *EVERYONE* must want children so those who have been saying they don't even though they haven't considered the possibility for YEARS are OBVIOUSLY being rash and haven't thought much on the subject.
Naaaaah these people are just being EDGY because who wouldn't want to restrict their life at the beck and call to someone else for 18+ years?


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## Rilvor (Apr 7, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> Aren't the majority of furries really young? Like 18-24? Surprise, surprise, they aren't interested in having a family.



I am of the opinion it takes time for adults to begin to understand the concept of children. I am starting to see along the lines, despite how much I dislike children. One's perception begins to shift. Ask me three years ago and I would have surely had some edgy, teenager-sounding response.

Some people may never think along the lines that appreciates what children are and that is fine; I hope they never have them. I may not ever myself.



Aleu said:


> Oh, I forgot. *EVERYONE* must want children so those who have been saying they don't even though they haven't considered the possibility for YEARS are OBVIOUSLY being rash and haven't thought much on the subject.
> Naaaaah these people are just being EDGY because who wouldn't want to restrict their life at the beck and call to someone else for 18+ years?


I am calling you an edgy child for how you say it, not what you say.


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## TigerBeacon (Apr 7, 2013)

The world needs a lot less children anyway. I would prefer that people consider adoption.


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## Aleu (Apr 7, 2013)

Rilvor said:


> I am calling you an edgy child for how you say it, not what you say.


There is no nice way of saying that one despises children so it really makes no difference.
Apparently hating something makes one edgy now. Well now that pretty much leaves...everyone being edgy.



TigerBeacon said:


> The world needs a lot less children anyway. I would prefer that people consider adoption.


A lot more people would if it weren't damn near impossible unless you  were a rich, christian family. That's the main reason why people adopt  from other countries rather than here is because the system here is so  STRICT.


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## PapayaShark (Apr 7, 2013)

I like kids that are 3-8 year old, if they are younger I fear that I might hurt them ;n; And I dislike bratty kids regardless of age, but I dont hate them. I hate their parents for being terrible at raising children.

I don't really get why people hate children. If they don't want to be around them, thats fine. But hate them? And some kids are funny and smart ^^


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## Judge Spear (Apr 7, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I'll say it again: It seems some furries hate children only because they don't want them. If they had children, that means they can't be perverted 24-7 anymore, they can't live in 10 simultaneous e-relationships, and can't go to 20 cons a year. It means they have to grow up and be mature, and we don't want that, do we?



Probably the most biased unthought out reasoning yet. I'd sooner buy the "you were a kid once" argument.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 7, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> Probably the most biased unthought out reasoning yet. I'd sooner buy the "you were a kid once" argument.



I'm not attacking any of you, nor am I saying everyone thinks like this. I'm just saying, some people don't want kids, or even get married to a partner as they just don't want the responsibility that comes with these things. Some people are immature and want to party all night long. I'm not saying they're immature for not wanting these things. I'm saying immaturity can lead to it. There are many other valid reasons why someone wouldn't want kids, mature reasons.

Again, though, yes, most furries are young (and occasionally awkward), so such big life decisions aren't on their minds yet.

I will say though, a lot of kids these days are brats, and they annoy me. The college students I see going on late-night bar crawls on school nights...if they become parents...god, what will their kids be like?

Remember, a kid who is a little shit has stinky parents.
Anyway, hate is a strong word. Aleu, XoPachi, do you really hate children in general, or do you just find them annoying? Just because some Christian fundies go around preaching the joys of childbirth doesn't mean you have to hate kids when you don't have them. Blanket hatred is irrational. Please, explain why you hate kids. And don't say you hate them because they're annoying. That's not a valid reason.


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## Kapherdel (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't necessarily dislike kids.. but you know the ones that chew as loud as they can, and talk to you like shit, and act like they rule the world?  Those ones can go away for all I care.  Forever.  Plus, kids who don't understand a word I'm saying no matter how simple, get on my nerves ("Do you like that pattern?" Kid: "What do you mean? Me: "Do you like the way it looks" Kids: "I don't know") Blah.


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## Ozriel (Apr 8, 2013)

It depends on the kid.

The experience I had with shitty kids stems from work where I have to deal with them and their equally shitty parents. I don't hate every kid I come across, just the ones who are complete brats and deserves some quality time with the switch and their equally shithead spawners.


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## Tapeworm (Apr 8, 2013)

I've never liked children, even when I was one.


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## sunandshadow (Apr 9, 2013)

I consider "I hate kids" to be about the most unattractive thing that could ever come out of a guy's mouth.  I'd make that a gender-neutral statement but I don't really have an opinion about female attractiveness.  But, if it's not someone I'd otherwise want to date, I don't mind if people dislike kids, as long as they don't bitch at just having a kid who isn't currently dirty or loud in a room with them.


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## Judge Spear (Apr 9, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I'm not attacking any of you, nor am I saying everyone thinks like this. I'm just saying, some people don't want kids, or even get married to a partner as they just don't want the responsibility that comes with these things. Some people are immature and want to party all night long. I'm not saying they're immature for not wanting these things. I'm saying immaturity can lead to it. There are many other valid reasons why someone wouldn't want kids, mature reasons.
> 
> Again, though, yes, most furries are young (and occasionally awkward), so such big life decisions aren't on their minds yet.
> 
> ...



If you are a party animal... If you are a furry with poor priorities... If you're just simply immature and you make the choice against reproducing because you recognize your fault in the responsibility department, that is actually one of the most mature and responsible things you can do. Because someone truly immature who does not care about shit and knows fuck all about taking care of their life let alone a child for two decades spawning offspring is disastrous. 

And annoying is most definitely a valid reason. We despise other people as adults because they're annoying but no one complains. Ever. And I want you to find the post were I said verbatim that I outright hate children. You'll be hard pressed to because it doesn't exist. I said they just need to leave me alone and I don't care about them except for two circumstances. Don't put words in my mouth...posts.....fingers whatever the fuck. That's how FAF brand "arguments" start. Blanket hatred IS irrational which I why I don't do it.


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## Calemeyr (Apr 9, 2013)

I've gotta say though, a lot of kids these days are spoiled, uncontrollable brats. Has parenting taken a backseat to giving the child what they want?


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## Bloodshot_Eyes (Apr 9, 2013)

I used to hate kids, then I saw they were usually a reflection on how the parent(s) act... so I started hating shitty parenting.


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## Aleu (Apr 9, 2013)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I've gotta say though, a lot of kids these days are spoiled, uncontrollable brats. Has parenting taken a backseat to giving the child what they want?



Yes. Because no one believes in punishment anymore as it is child abuse.


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 9, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Yes. Because no one believes in punishment anymore as it is child abuse.



I find that's hardly a factor. It's more a problem of being too lazy to discipline (or just being annoyed by its difficulty.) Parents nowadays would rather the tv babysit their kids while they go off and do what they want. And don't get me started on the strange morals popping up. 

I work at a place that sells games, and I have adults that purchase M-rated games for kids 8 and younger. Games I know have a ton of profanity and sexual themes. I have to explain what the rating system means due to a state law (which I think people should do anyway) and the parents either shrug it off or give in after the kid throws a hissy fit if they think they aren't getting what they want. I can't legally deny the sale to the adult. 

It's just sickening to me how much people let their kids control them and not the other way around.


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## Khopesh (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't hate kids. I've known plenty that are good people. The problem is, yeah, the parents. Sometimes it's because of instinct. Sometimes it's because of lack of knowledge. Hell, I know a guy who was accepted to both UCLA and USC, but his dad was going to make him go to a Cal State University because he didn't want to look up financial aid options. Kids that are just major jackasses can have that traced to the parents. People, if you don't want to spend the time actually being a parent (you just want to be friends with your kids), then you shouldn't have kids.


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## Aleu (Apr 9, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> I find that's hardly a factor. It's more a problem of being too lazy to discipline (or just being annoyed by its difficulty.) Parents nowadays would rather the tv babysit their kids while they go off and do what they want. And don't get me started on the strange morals popping up.
> 
> I work at a place that sells games, and I have adults that purchase M-rated games for kids 8 and younger. Games I know have a ton of profanity and sexual themes. I have to explain what the rating system means due to a state law (which I think people should do anyway) and the parents either shrug it off or give in after the kid throws a hissy fit if they think they aren't getting what they want. I can't legally deny the sale to the adult.
> 
> It's just sickening to me how much people let their kids control them and not the other way around.


It could be both. Just read up in the parenting section in Yahoo. If you so much as look at a child wrong or suggest that a child's attitude needs to be corrected, shit breaks loose.
See that really bugs me when people don't know the difference between punishment and throwing a kid out the window. Spanking a child is not beating them with a bat. Putting them in time out is not akin to solitary confinement for a decade with no food or water.


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## Lucy Bones (Apr 9, 2013)

My parents beat the shit out of me.

Closed fists, I had many bruises as a child.

I think I was abused. :U


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## chagen (Apr 9, 2013)

a parent that goes ape-shit when a kid has done something wrong but does not deserve to get hit for it is just plain abuse in a my opinion.


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## Ozriel (Apr 9, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Yes. Because no one believes in punishment anymore as it is child abuse.



In my day, if kids acted out on public, you'd get Mr.Switch on your hind-pots or a slap on the ass with a hand or a belt. Now it is abuse.

When you acted out in the neighborhood or acted disrespectful towards the neighbors, the neighbors would punish you...and now that's abuse. 

Between this generation's Disney Channel and a lack of parenting, I don't know which one to blame. >:V


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## Judge Spear (Apr 9, 2013)

I remember when I was 12 and I saw Awesome Grammy (that's what I called her) at the with my mom. She had her grandson with her and this peculiar thin wire like thing at ready in her hand. He wanted a drink from the fountain and he was fumbling trying to get up to the faucet. She tried to help him up and he said "I CAN DO IT MYSEEEELF!! 

She whipped him in a fashion that would make Simon Belmont proud. I was DYING!!



Lucy Bones said:


> My parents beat the shit out of me.
> 
> Closed fists, I had many bruises as a child.
> 
> I think I was abused. :U



This man got banned again...




Marcus Stormchaser said:


> I've gotta say though, a lot of kids these days are spoiled, uncontrollable brats. Has parenting taken a backseat to giving the child what they want?



Spoiled kids get on my nerves. That...damn what is it called? That tiara toddler pageant reality show thing is a prime example of children that could land me in my grave should I ever meet them OR their parents in person. Never. I could NEVER allow my child to become that.


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## Rilvor (Apr 9, 2013)

We like to pretend it is a lack of punishment, but it is not just that. Punishment without measures taken to correct the behavior is worthless. It doesn't actually teach the child _why_ it was bad.

A lot of people miss out on the addition of corrective behavior, and you'll see this in any discussion that involves punishing children.

As a child I was punished with switches and such, sure. I certainly deserved it, but being made to understand what I did wrong is likely why I never got in trouble for the same thing twice.


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## DrDingo (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm pretty sure a child's behaviour is affected by other factors than just discipline. For example, happy couples seem to have happy, friendly kids. Depressed, lazy parents are less likely to such social and polite children. Attitudes of parents may well rub off onto their sons and daughters.


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## Ryuu (Apr 9, 2013)

I never really liked kids, never would have one for sure. -.-  There soooooo annoying


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## Magick (Apr 9, 2013)

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af157/Kaari_01/1360551412895_zpsf7a411ce.jpg

Seems fitting for a lot of kids today.


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## Llamapotamus (Apr 10, 2013)

Troj said:


> Your mum's also dating a guy called T-Dawg, and she feeds you Doritos tacos locos and coca-cola for breakfast.



This sentence honestly scares me because it's plausible.


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## benignBiotic (Apr 10, 2013)

Artillery Spam said:


> Kids are people too.
> 
> There are some people that I like and some people that I hate.


These are my feelings.

But forget babies. I had to watch my sister when she was a baby and fuck that. Loud, messy, not for me.


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## Troj (Apr 10, 2013)

DrDingo said:


> I'm pretty sure a child's behaviour is affected by other factors than just discipline. For example, happy couples seem to have happy, friendly kids. Depressed, lazy parents are less likely to such social and polite children. Attitudes of parents may well rub off onto their sons and daughters.



Well, and some theorists have argued--quite eloquently and effectively, I think--that we often pay too little attention to genetic factors, when considering personality and temperament.

So, rather than being grouchy and ill-tempered because her parents were distant and aloof, maybe a child's parents became distant and aloof _because_ she was naturally grouchy and ill-tempered, and their aloof style only served to exacerbate these problems.

It's a tricky chicken-egg problem.


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## Outcast (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm respecting of all human beings, that being said, children still manage to become the topping to my shit sundae... some things never change, and when I say "change", I mean "change themselves".


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## Nerii-Fur (Apr 10, 2013)

I have the upmost hate for 95% of the children I meet or so, but the reality of it is that it's not them to blame-- I guess I should just say I despise parents of out-of-control-screaming-brats.

Also OP, people often hate what they once were.   I don't really know where that thought of your's is stemming from.  

I'm happy to say I'll never have kids.


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## Troj (Apr 10, 2013)

Does this help to redeem children at all, for those of you who aren't big on them?


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 10, 2013)

I mean, I guess it always bugs me when people rag on children in general. I mean, one specific child? Sure, some of them are completely insufferable to be around. But that's far from all of them. I think hating children in your 20s is what leads to hating "those young people these days" in your 40s. It's a lack of empathy, and a lack of a will to understand, combined with a wish to just blame it all on someone. And who better to blame for everything than the people who don't have any rights to defend themselves?

Here's a little chicken-and-egg theory question: Do parents hit their children because they are obnoxious, or are children obnoxious because their parents hit them? I dunno about where you guys went to school, but around where I was the kids who were bullies were the ones who generally had an ass-whupping waiting for them at the door if they did something bad. Since they learned that power was determined by fear and physical force, they bullied smaller, weaker children to assert their dominance, particularly over kids they viewed as a threat (usually for being smarter). Yes, there are absolutely problems with parenting in the 21st century but abandoning corporal punishment is not one of them. If anything, I think corporal punishment disguised lousy parenting in the past; you could shut your kid up with a good smack, so it didn't matter if you were otherwise useless.

EDIT: And for the record, I have a horrible relationship with my 11 year old brother, and my parents used corporal punishment on me when I was little.


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## Nerii-Fur (Apr 10, 2013)

Troj said:


> Does this help to redeem children at all, for those of you who aren't big on them?



That's one of the 5% of children I do like.  hahaha.


----------



## Kvasir (Apr 10, 2013)

I personally do not like kids mainly because I am super jealous because I never really had a childhood, I simply cannot connect. Every time I try I drive the wedge deeper. I can hardly stand to be around my cousins, nieces and nephew. To me they are an avoid when possible but pay attention to them because I don't want our next gen to be f'ed up, I think some people shouldn't even consider parenthood (sadly they don't) but end up breeding profusely and passing on the thought that it is ok to mate with everything available. This is my opinion however and it isn't saying that all people are bad parents, simply most of the parents that I have met excluding a few.


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## Aleu (Apr 11, 2013)

Troj said:


> Does this help to redeem children at all, for those of you who aren't big on them?


That severely got on my nerves.



BlueStreak98 said:


> I mean, I guess it always bugs me when  people rag on children in general. I mean, one specific child? Sure,  some of them are completely insufferable to be around. But that's far  from all of them. I think hating children in your 20s is what leads to  hating "those young people these days" in your 40s. It's a lack of  empathy, and a lack of a will to understand, combined with a wish to  just blame it all on someone. And who better to blame for everything  than the people who don't have any rights to defend themselves?
> 
> Here's a little chicken-and-egg theory question: Do parents hit their  children because they are obnoxious, or are children obnoxious because  their parents hit them? I dunno about where you guys went to school, but  around where I was the kids who were bullies were the ones who  generally had an ass-whupping waiting for them at the door if they did  something bad. Since they learned that power was determined by fear and  physical force, they bullied smaller, weaker children to assert their  dominance, particularly over kids they viewed as a threat (usually for  being smarter). Yes, there are absolutely problems with parenting in the  21st century but abandoning corporal punishment is not one of them. If  anything, I think corporal punishment disguised lousy parenting in the  past; you could shut your kid up with a good smack, so it didn't matter  if you were otherwise useless.
> 
> EDIT: And for the record, I have a horrible relationship with my 11 year  old brother, and my parents used corporal punishment on me when I was  little.



Parents hit children because they are obnoxious. Duh. That's the point of corporal punishment.

I  think you're still mad that your parents used corporal punishment when  you more than likely deserved it but thing "Oh hitting is bad therefore  they're wrong and I'm right!"


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## Yago (Apr 11, 2013)

I really don't like children. Or most people for that matter. Some children aren't too bad. And as a whole, they're fine in small doses. But I dont' see myself being able to be a parent or babysitter, or to put up with them for extended periods of time.


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## Llamapotamus (Apr 11, 2013)

Troj said:


> Does this help to redeem children at all, for those of you who aren't big on them?



It's a cute story, but I think that mainly has to do with the illustrations and acting. If it was just the child telling the story without an accompanying video, it would have been pretty dull.


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> That severely got on my nerves.



Ditto. It was very heavy handed with the cutesy. 

:C Sorry Troj.


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## Troj (Apr 11, 2013)

I just find the idea of the child stating that there needs to be a fake swimming pool so the actors don't get wet kind of brilliant. He's considering things that older kids or adults might forget or overlook, if you asked them how they would make a homemade film.

That, and "the scared is scared of things you like" is strangely insightful.

That, and the fact that he kid clearly cast himself as the "great big enormous" bear. (Begs the question: who's the mouse?) 

He's oddly forward-thinking and detail-oriented for a kindergartener, which is why it gives me warm fuzzies.

At least now we know that Aleu is child-proof .


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## Aleu (Apr 11, 2013)

Troj said:


> At least now we know that Aleu is child-proof .



Not exactly sure what you mean by this.


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## Schwimmwagen (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Not exactly sure what you mean by this.



It means you're infertile.


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## Recel (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Not exactly sure what you mean by this.



Built in condom comes to mind... or... or maybe, you can withstand getting hit by flying children at high velocities! Or... or... you have an inverted vagina! Or... maybe... just maybe... you're not a girl even!

Or you just tolerate children better. It's an option too, but almost too boring to mention...


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## Aleu (Apr 11, 2013)

Gibby said:


> It means you're infertile.


But I'm not. At least that's what my body says and it's normally right.


Recel said:


> Built in condom comes to mind... or... or maybe, you can withstand getting hit by flying children at high velocities! Or... or... you have an inverted vagina! Or... maybe... just maybe... *you're not a girl even*!
> 
> Or you just tolerate children better. It's an option too, but almost too boring to mention...



Sometimes I wonder..

but no I have an absurdly low tolerance for children. It's the main reason why I never visit my dad anymore as his wife's grandkids are nearly always there.


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## Azure (Apr 11, 2013)

Troj said:


> Does this help to redeem children at all, for those of you who aren't big on them?


it just makes me want to falcon punch kids. even more. its specifically the type of child i dont like. doesnt mean i dislike the rest any more.

pretty much the only kid i like


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## Troj (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Not exactly sure what you mean by this.



They can't fool you with their cute, cloying ways .


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## Aleu (Apr 11, 2013)

Troj said:


> They can't fool you with their cute, cloying ways .



Screaming, whining, and incoherent babbling are not cute in the slightest.


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## TheMetalVelocity (Apr 11, 2013)

Azure said:


> it just makes me want to falcon punch kids. even more. its specifically the type of child i dont like. doesnt mean i dislike the rest any more.
> 
> pretty much the only kid i like


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWfs1QqKfZU


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Parents hit children because they are obnoxious. Duh. That's the point of corporal punishment.
> 
> I  think you're still mad that your parents used corporal punishment when  you more than likely deserved it but thing "Oh hitting is bad therefore  they're wrong and I'm right!"


So then, is society a Popeye cartoon, where we hit things that get on our nerves? Because that's what we teach our children by hitting them. It's a decision to resort to brute force instead of using a brain, because I think even some parents question their intellectual superiority over their kids.

And I was going to say your second comment was the dumbest thing I read all day, but I read that locked thread in The Den, so it'll have to settle for a silver medal.


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## Troj (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Screaming, whining, and incoherent babbling are not cute in the slightest.



Yeah, like I said, I usually need to be able to have some kind of conversation. Second best is if they're absolutely silent.

If it screams, whines, begs, or throws a tantrum, I'm out. (Assuming I have means of escape, that is.)

GG Allin kid is the best, by the way. I approve. 

And, the key to parenting is clarity and consistency, which is what a lot of parents lack. Too many parents really don't want to be parents, in my estimation, in that they really want to be their kid's friend, or they'd prefer it if their kid were a Tamagotchi or the like.

Corporal punishment carries a number of risks and downsides--especially when parents do it wrong, or apply it inappropriately--and it may not necessarily have an effect on certain types of bad behaviors and bad outcomes. (That people have different ideas of what constitutes "corporal punishment" serves to further muddy the water.) There are some situations in which corporal punishment can work, but many (though, granted, not all) of those are also situations in which other forms of clear, consistent punishment would also conceivably work equally well.

I usually urge parents to really, seriously, sincerely exhaust their catalogue of options before resorting to corporal punishment.


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## Aleu (Apr 11, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> So then, is society a Popeye cartoon, where we hit things that get on our nerves? Because that's what we teach our children by hitting them. It's a decision to resort to brute force instead of using a brain, because I think even some parents question their intellectual superiority over their kids.
> 
> And I was going to say your second comment was the dumbest thing I read all day, but I read that locked thread in The Den, so it'll have to settle for a silver medal.



No, that's not what we teach our children by hitting them. We're taught that actions have consequences. Honestly your parents were pretty shit if you didn't get anything from that.

Think the second comment is dumb all you want but the more I read your posts, the more I think it's true.


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 11, 2013)

Aleu said:


> No, that's not what we teach our children by hitting them. We're taught that actions have consequences. Honestly your parents were pretty shit if you didn't get anything from that.
> 
> Think the second comment is dumb all you want but the more I read your posts, the more I think it's true.


But the result is subversion, hiding things that could get them in trouble, and striking out at others in frustration. You are absolutely right that it teaches that actions have consequences; for example, if the nerdy little kid doesn't give me his lunch money, he gets a wedgie. And if he tattles, and I get in trouble, he gets another. He'll learn.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that hitting a kid does teach him that what he's doing is bad. But does he understand WHY what he did was bad, other than the fact that it made it hard to sit down for a while? I don't like the idea that we communicate should cause-and-effect relationships to our children exclusively through pain.

And to elaborate, my parents didn't use corporal punishment really at all beyond first grade. I was a goody two-shoes for a long time when I was young, so it was rarely if ever necessary to begin with. So to suggest that my stance is somehow the rationale behind a grudge I would have been holding for 14 years now is a little bizarre, to say the least. Give me more credit than that.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> But the result is subversion, hiding things that could get them in trouble, and striking out at others in frustration. You are absolutely right that it teaches that actions have consequences; for example, if the nerdy little kid doesn't give me his lunch money, he gets a wedgie. And if he tattles, and I get in trouble, he gets another. He'll learn.
> 
> Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that hitting a kid does teach him that what he's doing is bad. But does he understand WHY what he did was bad, other than the fact that it made it hard to sit down for a while? I don't like the idea that we communicate should cause-and-effect relationships to our children exclusively through pain.
> 
> And to elaborate, my parents didn't use corporal punishment really at all beyond first grade. I was a goody two-shoes for a long time when I was young, so it was rarely if ever necessary to begin with. So to suggest that my stance is somehow the rationale behind a grudge I would have been holding for 14 years now is a little bizarre, to say the least. Give me more credit than that.


That could be the same for any sort of punishment. Kids don't like punishment. NO ONE likes punishment...*fetishes aside*

And do you think he's going to give a damn if he's put in time-out? If anything that's being off the hook in my opinion. They could do whatever the fuck they want and only get a "tsk tsk' and be sent to their room. 

Oh but it teaches them better than spanking. Yeah, teaches them to be entitled, spoiled little shits like the ones running around because people are too thick that what they're doing does work and a kid needs a good smack when they act up to keep them down.

They can't figure out what they did was wrong and why? OH  BUT I THOUGHT CHILDREN WERE SMART :V


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> That could be the same for any sort of punishment. Kids don't like punishment. NO ONE likes punishment...*fetishes aside*
> 
> And do you think he's going to give a damn if he's put in time-out? If anything that's being off the hook in my opinion. They could do whatever the fuck they want and only get a "tsk tsk' and be sent to their room.
> 
> ...


If you don't give them a reason to see, they're not gonna. Same as any adult.

I didn't specify "time out" as an effective method. In fact, I tend to agree that five minutes in a corner doesn't do much good. But hitting them until they submit doesn't exactly do the job any better. Like I said, there seems to be a correlation between the kids who got their asses whupped at home and the kids who were bullies and assholes at school. The parents of the nerds didn't do corporal punishment, even when the situation called for it. But you know what? It wasn't called for that much. Because they taught their kids that there are ways to hold a superior rank over someone without using fear and violence.


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 12, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> The parents of the nerds didn't do corporal punishment, even when the situation called for it.



Horseshit. 

I was a nerd and I was spanked. Besides, you claim bullies learn such behavior from the actual corporal punishment...well answer me this. Why do we not see a bunch ofkids solving problems by putting each other in timeout? 

I think kids hit because its in their instinct.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> If you don't give them a reason to see, they're not gonna. Same as any adult.
> 
> I didn't specify "time out" as an effective method. In fact, I tend to agree that five minutes in a corner doesn't do much good. But hitting them until they submit doesn't exactly do the job any better. Like I said, there seems to be a correlation between the kids who got their asses whupped at home and the kids who were bullies and assholes at school. The parents of the nerds didn't do corporal punishment, even when the situation called for it. But you know what? It wasn't called for that much. Because they taught their kids that there are ways to hold a superior rank over someone without using fear and violence.



If they were so smart then they wouldn't need to be given a reason. :V

OOh a correlation, because that means so much. Maybe the kids that got their asses whupped don't lash out at others at school because of the ass whupping but they get their asses whupped because they're just fucking terrors? Contrary to popular belief, kids aren't angels. They lie, steal, and manipulate to get what they want. When they don't? They scream and bitch and whine "BUT I WAAAAAAANT IIIIIITT." until they finally get it. They know that screaming does the trick because that's what they've done as babies so on instinct, they do the same as toddlers and up.


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## Troj (Apr 12, 2013)

Interestingly, kids I know who've been taught that a "time-out" is just something to help you cool down will often learn over time to give themselves time-outs, and some of them will try to get their peers to do the same, when they start to get pissy.

It's been my experience that people who resort to violence when they're upset do so because they feel all their other means of being heard or getting what they want have run out.

So, I've tended to notice that, for example, kids and adults with extensive vocabularies (especially for emotions) can _usually_ manage their emotions and impulses better than kids and adults with smaller vocabularies. 

The kids I work with who have learning disabilities or speech problems, in contrast, are more likely to go bam, pow, right for the kisser. Ditto the kids who come from homes where their families rarely talk, because everybody's too busy, or too dysfunctional. 

The angriest and most violent kids, natch, usually come from homes to match. The kid who broke school supplies and property and beat up on other kids had a father who'd broken his Xbox in a fit of rage, and an older brother who'd punched a hole in the wall.  

You do what you know. You mimic what is modeled for you. You repeat what gets results.

Interestingly, human beings are at their most violent at around 2 years of age, but they're too tiny and too uncoordinated to really do the damage that they'd probably like to do. Aren't we lucky!


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

Or it could be that anger just runs in the family? :V


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## Troj (Apr 12, 2013)

Could be, but now we're back to the chicken-egg nature-nurture problem.

But, having a genetic propensity for anger is no excuse, because most people are perfectly capable of learning how to manage anger, provided they have someone or something to actually learn from.

Either way, it's not a life sentence.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

So still we can't say "Oh spanking leads to this" because it's not guaranteed whether or not it's true.

You know what also leads to violent children? Verbally harassing them and being overbearing.


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> If they were so smart then they wouldn't need to be given a reason. :V
> 
> OOh a correlation, because that means so much. Maybe the kids that got their asses whupped don't lash out at others at school because of the ass whupping but they get their asses whupped because they're just fucking terrors? Contrary to popular belief, kids aren't angels. They lie, steal, and manipulate to get what they want. When they don't? They scream and bitch and whine "BUT I WAAAAAAANT IIIIIITT." until they finally get it. They know that screaming does the trick because that's what they've done as babies so on instinct, they do the same as toddlers and up.


My brother is 11 years old; to my knowledge, he has never been on the receiving end of corporal punishment. And you know what? He may be a prick when it comes to typical sibling rivalry stuff, but he's probably better behaved overall than I was at that age. I've found that his attitude matches theirs. If they stay calm, he stays calm, and situations don't escalate. If they get loud, it becomes a conflict, and it drags out.

Children learn a lot of things by imitating adults, particularly ones they live with. If the adults act like adults, then the kids will act more grown up. If the adults act like children and punch things that make them mad, then the kids will do the same. There are asshole children out there, definitely. But you'll notice that those kids tend to have asshole parents. It's very rare that you meet an obnoxious kid whose parents don't match their progeny. 


Aleu said:


> Or it could be that anger just runs in the family? :V


Could be, passed down from generation to generation, one smack at a time. :V


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## Troj (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> So still we can't say "Oh spanking leads to this" because it's not guaranteed whether or not it's true.
> 
> You know what also leads to violent children? Verbally harassing them and being overbearing.



Yeah, but_ I_ didn't say spanking _necessarily_ leads to violence. 

I also agree that verbal or emotional abuse can be just as harmful, and is just as likely as to beget violence as physical abuse. No disagreement there.

_I've_ said that spanking can carry risks--especially if you do it wrong, do it in anger, or do it with the wrong type of kid--that it doesn't always work (especially with the "wrong type of kid"), and that other types of consistent punishment often work just as well with most kids.

My most recent post was more a reply to Butterflygoddess, and was more about why kids hit each other, than about spanking per se.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> *There are asshole children out there, definitely. But you'll notice that those kids tend to have asshole parents. It's very rare that you meet an obnoxious kid whose parents don't match their progeny. *
> 
> Could be, passed down from generation to generation, one smack at a time. :V



Which I pointed out, could be more genetic than just smacking. It seems far more likely as we (humanity) are a violent species.


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Which I pointed out, could be more genetic than just smacking. It seems far more likely as we (humanity) are a violent species.


But as long as we keep promoting such behavior, we'll never know.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> But as long as we keep promoting such behavior, we'll never know.



We do know. It's called _history_.


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## CannonFodder (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Which I pointed out, could be more genetic than just smacking. It seems far more likely as we (humanity) are a violent species.


Or it could be that parenting a kid has a actual effect on a child?  (yes that's a rhetorical question)
As for people being violent, such behavior often depends on if they want something, they had something taken away from them or if they fear something they have will be taken away.

If a parent never actually parents a child and if the kid is a spoiled brat that always gets what they want then yeah they're going to be a little shit if you take a toy or something away from them.

It's not 100% either, just cause a parent raises their kid one way doesn't mean they'll always turn out how you would expect.  Like if a parent is a loving kind parent that doesn't always mean the child will grow up to be a nice person.  If a parent is abusive, and constantly screaming at their kid telling them they'll never be anything, that doesn't mean the child will grow up to never be great or anything.

People are not just biological products of their dna, rather they are the combined experiences and memories of their life.  What I mean by that is there is no single thing that causes a child to grow up one way or the other.  Just cause a child is a brat doesn't mean that it's always going to be 100% the parents fault; it could be grandparents spoiling their grandkids, it could be they a little shit at school and think bullying others into giving them stuff works with their parents as well, it could actually be something biological, it could be a million different things.

That is why you actually when parenting need to pay attention to your kids and understand them.


Aleu said:


> We do know. It's called _history_.


We're less violent nowadays than we were though.  It's a example of social change and how it's no longer considered okay to beat the crap out of each other and such.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

I know parenting has an effect on children. However all these "studies" mean jack shit. As we (should) know, correlation does not equate causation. What about the kids that grow up that were spanked that are NOT violent? What about the kids that were not spanked that ARE violent?

See that's the problem with that. Interpretation. Variables. 
There'd have to be far, far, far more research into generations to even at least rule out predisposition as well as just by chance the kid is born a psychopath.

Of course I know there's a right way and a wrong way to parent. I just don't think that spanking in itself is a wrong way. Will there be times in which it is unnecessary? Fuck yes. Are there people that take it too far? Yes.  But that doesn't mean that spanking = abuse. It means there are fuckwits who don't understand that a smack on the ass is good enough and these people, in my opinion, should not procreate.


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## CannonFodder (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> I know parenting has an effect on children. However all these "studies" mean jack shit. As we (should) know, correlation does not equate causation. What about the kids that grow up that were spanked that are NOT violent? What about the kids that were not spanked that ARE violent?
> 
> See that's the problem with that. Interpretation. Variables.
> There'd have to be far, far, far more research into generations to even at least rule out predisposition as well as just by chance the kid is born a psychopath.
> ...


I never said anything about spanking equaling abuse.  I meant the shits that actually do hit their kids.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> I never said anything about spanking equaling abuse.  I meant the shits that actually do hit their kids.



And MY main point was that people all too often equate spanking and abuse which is why we have too many little shits running around. That and TV parenting.


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## CannonFodder (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> That and TV parenting.


It has more to do with the parent being univolved in taking care of their kids.  Just cause a kid watches tv a lot, or plays video games or whatever doesn't necessarily mean the kid will turn out bad.  It's when a parent rather than being involved in raising their kids use media as a substitute to needing to be involved with their kids.  Just cause a kid watches a ton of tv doesn't mean they are bad kids, it's when the parent isn't around that's the problem.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

CannonFodder said:


> It has more to do with the parent being univolved in taking care of their kids.  Just cause a kid watches tv a lot, or plays video games or whatever doesn't necessarily mean the kid will turn out bad.  It's when a parent rather than being involved in raising their kids use media as a substitute to needing to be involved with their kids.  Just cause a kid watches a ton of tv doesn't mean they are bad kids, it's when the parent isn't around that's the problem.


That's what I mean by TV parenting.

My parents always read to me and when I got old enough to read, I read with them. Then when I got older, I got more into games and you know what? My dad played with me (that is until he got carpal tunnel).

However with my boyfriend's parents, they just gave him video games and yelled at him a lot. I know people are skeptical when someone says "My parents are shit" but OH MY FUCKING GOD they are the definition of shit parents. I'm normally a really calm person when having a diplomatic discussion with adults but his mother, I swear to fucking GOD, it's like she TRIES to antagonize and start a fight. And they wonder why he is so messed up and lazy. GEE I DUNNO, MAYBE BECAUSE YOU HANDED HIM VIDEO GAMES HIS ENTIRE LIFE AND NEVER TRIED TO TREAT HIM AS A HUMAN BEING!?


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## BlueStreak98 (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> However with my boyfriend's parents, they just gave him video games and yelled at him a lot. I know people are skeptical when someone says "My parents are shit" but OH MY FUCKING GOD they are the definition of shit parents. I'm normally a really calm person when having a diplomatic discussion with adults but his mother, I swear to fucking GOD, it's like she TRIES to antagonize and start a fight. And they wonder why he is so messed up and lazy. GEE I DUNNO, MAYBE BECAUSE YOU HANDED HIM VIDEO GAMES HIS ENTIRE LIFE AND NEVER TRIED TO TREAT HIM AS A HUMAN BEING!?


Tell me more about how hitting a child creates a calm, well-adjusted adult :V


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

BlueStreak98 said:


> Tell me more about how hitting a child creates a calm, well-adjusted adult :V



Apparently you never learned to read :V


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> And they wonder why he is so messed up and lazy.



>.> Oh god...never date a lazy guy, Aleu. That's always trouble.


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## Aleu (Apr 12, 2013)

Butterflygoddess said:


> >.> Oh god...never date a lazy guy, Aleu. That's always trouble.



He's fine now with a good metaphorical kick in the ass by yours truly. I know how to work my men ;V


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## Butters Shikkon (Apr 12, 2013)

Aleu said:


> He's fine now with a good metaphorical kick in the ass by yours truly. I know how to work my men ;V



Toshabi's quote in your sig has never haunted me more. XD


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## Lomberdia (Apr 13, 2013)

Like the majority of people here, I don't like the annoying little brats that run around causing all sorts of chaos and then I remember you can't hate the child, blame the parent :V 

Learn how to raise a child that people don't want to take turns giving your hell spawn a kick in the butt.


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## Bambi (Apr 14, 2013)

I think people who hate children to the point of it being excessively pathological are really just hiding something behind a front of anger that most children simply cannot not.

And that's what frustrates them.

EDIT: cannot ... not? Whatever, it's staying. POWER TO THE PEOPLE


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## Rilvor (Apr 14, 2013)

Bambi said:


> I think people who hate children to the point of it being excessively pathological are really just hiding something behind a front of anger that most children simply cannot not.
> 
> And that's what frustrates them.


Extremely apt, as I know from personal experience that anger makes the best of masks.


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