# (Perhaps another) Bojack discussion thread! All the spoilers welcome.



## Zinogirl (May 9, 2020)

*Spoilers!!!!*

I finished watching the series last night and WOW it was great.

I would have loved if the show actually finished with "The view from halfway down". I think Bojack doesnt deserve a second chance at life however that came with a price; everyone decided to leave him behind. So hes all washed up, a "has been" and alone. 

Seeing Princess Carolyn happy made me happy. I was very surprised that she ended up with Judah. I'm also happy for Diane, she moved on and got help. 

How was the show for you guys?


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## Deleted member 134689 (May 9, 2020)

Zinogirl said:


> I would have loved if the show actually finished with "The view from halfway down". I think Bojack doesnt deserve a second chance at life however that came with a price; everyone decided to leave him behind. So hes all washed up, a "has been" and alone.



I have to disagree with you here, he did some shitty things (like put his dementia-stricken mom in the worst room at the nursing home) but I don't think he was that bad of a guy. I couldn't stand Diane from beginning to end of the series, but I actually hated Hollyhock MORE for the way she just discarded Bojack in the final season.. </3

This aside, I do think the show was phenomenal and I can't believe it's over!


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## Troj (May 9, 2020)

I am so in love with Guy. <3


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## Glossolalia (May 10, 2020)

lisalange said:


> I have to disagree with you here, he did some shitty things (like put his dementia-stricken mom in the worst room at the nursing home) but I don't think he was that bad of a guy. I couldn't stand Diane from beginning to end of the series, but I actually hated Hollyhock MORE for the way she just discarded Bojack in the final season.. </3
> 
> This aside, I do think the show was phenomenal and I can't believe it's over!




It confuses me when people find BoJack sympathetic but hate Diane! She had her flaws, but she caused less harm and did more good throughout the series than BoJack did. She made more of an effort to improve the world and grow as a person, even if her efforts were sometimes off the mark. Is there something about her personality that rubs some people the wrong way?


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## Deleted member 134689 (May 10, 2020)

Glossolalia said:


> It confuses me when people find BoJack sympathetic but hate Diane! She had her flaws, but she caused less harm and did more good throughout the series than BoJack did. She made more of an effort to improve the world and grow as a person, even if her efforts were sometimes off the mark. Is there something about her personality that rubs some people the wrong way?



I would have to rewatch to give you the best answer, but I hated her less toward the end of the series and came to appreciate her character more. I think it's the self-righteous attitude that annoyed me, also how she treated Mr Peanutbutter. I really do feel like it's a preference thing to do with her personality vs Bojack's personality. I see them both as self absorbed, just in different ways, even though he did cause a lot more destruction than she did. Hollyhock isn't what I would call a bad person but I am just so angry at her.. maybe I identify with Bojack somehow I don't know? I also feel a lot of sympathy for Beatrice and she was a HORRIBLE person, possibly the _worst_ out of the entire cast.


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## Glossolalia (May 10, 2020)

lisalange said:


> I would have to rewatch to give you the best answer, but I hated her less toward the end of the series and came to appreciate her character more. I think it's the self-righteous attitude that annoyed me, also how she treated Mr Peanutbutter. I really do feel like it's a preference thing to do with her personality vs Bojack's personality. I see them both as self absorbed, just in different ways, even though he did cause a lot more destruction than she did. Hollyhock isn't what I would call a bad person but I am just so angry at her.. maybe I identify WITH Bojack I don't know? I also feel a lot of sympathy for Beatrice and she was a HORRIBLE person.



I kind of get what you mean about the self-righteousness. With Bojack and Beatrice, all their awfulness is on the surface, so they at least come across as genuine (and when they do good things, you can tell they mean it). Whereas Diane tries to act like she's more selfless than she really is, which makes her seem insincere, and makes her flaws stand out even more. 

I love that the characters are complex enough to create such different reactions from different people!


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## Zinogirl (May 10, 2020)

lisalange said:


> I have to disagree with you here, he did some shitty things (like put his dementia-stricken mom in the worst room at the nursing home) but I don't think he was that bad of a guy. I couldn't stand Diane from beginning to end of the series, but I actually hated Hollyhock MORE for the way she just discarded Bojack in the final season.. </3
> 
> This aside, I do think the show was phenomenal and I can't believe it's over!



Hollyhock's descision to keep Bojack out of her life was very surprising. However,  i think she did it because she had a very good upbringing. Considering that she was abandoned and until recently discovered her roots. This is her only chance to escape that horrible poison that is the horseman/sugarman family.


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## Zinogirl (May 10, 2020)

Glossolalia said:


> It confuses me when people find BoJack sympathetic but hate Diane! She had her flaws, but she caused less harm and did more good throughout the series than BoJack did. She made more of an effort to improve the world and grow as a person, even if her efforts were sometimes off the mark. Is there something about her personality that rubs some people the wrong way?



I really liked Díane as well. She was one of the most sane characters IMO. Her acceptance of her depression and how she chose to her help along with the encouragement of Guy is very inspiring.


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## Troj (May 10, 2020)

Also, note that Pete Repeat told a skewed version of the events of prom night. It's perfectly understandable for Hollyhock to be creeped out by the thought of her older brother potentially being a sexual creeper who gives high schoolers alcohol.


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## Zinogirl (May 10, 2020)

Troj said:


> Also, note that Pete Repeat told a skewed version of the events of prom night. It's perfectly understandable for Hollyhock to be creeped out by the thought of her older brother potentially being a sexual creeper who gives high schoolers alcohol.


I must agree 100% you cant really expect young kids to understand crisis and stuff like that.


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## Deleted member 134689 (May 11, 2020)

Troj said:


> Also, note that Pete Repeat told a skewed version of the events of prom night. It's perfectly understandable for Hollyhock to be creeped out by the thought of her older brother potentially being a sexual creeper who gives high schoolers alcohol.


Ughhh that deer girl and her victim mentality.. after _she_ came on to Bojack and he resisted her. I don't feel sorry for her (but I did think it was super gross how Bojack was intentionally preying on her mom when the mom was clearly in a happy marriage) I see what you're saying even if I wish Hollyhock would have talked to Bojack about it before cutting him off. I guess she _is_ just a kid, sheltered with the good upbringing and minimal real life experience like @Zinogirl says. Plus the media made him out to be a predator.


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## Troj (May 11, 2020)

You've got to put yourself in the characters' shoes.

Penny probably feels ambivalence and shame over what happened, and _may _have convinced herself Bojack led her on in order to preserve her own self-esteem. 

Hollyhock's seen Bojack's dark side, only knows Pete's skewed version of what transpired at prom, and is presumably living in the midst of #MeToo.

Mind you, I think it's incredibly sad what happened between Hollyhock and Bojack--but, maybe they'll reconcile someday. Life's a bitch, and you keep on living.


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