# Server Upgrades - Jan 24, 2006



## Dragoneer (Jan 25, 2006)

FurAffinity may experience periods of extended downtime between tonight and this weekend. Outages may last between 15 to 20 minutes, and there should be no more than one or two periods of downtime at most.

The reason? We are currently upgrading the server hardware to our main system, with nearly quadruple number crunching capacit and RAM. We're quite literally dumping buckets of horsepower (ew!) into the system to eradicate and help prevent the site slowdowns. This should also remove the nasty dreaded SQL Beast from rearing its head.

We will try to give advance warning of impending downtime.


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## nikuramon (Jan 25, 2006)

Glad to hear it, hope it goes well.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 25, 2006)

nikuramon said:
			
		

> Glad to hear it, hope it goes well.


No joke, niku... 

My regards to the techs. _*claws crossed*_


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## Grave (Jan 25, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> FurAffinity may experience periods of extended downtime between tonight and this weekend. Outages may last between 15 to 20 minutes, and there should be no more than one or two periods of downtime at most.
> 
> The reason? We are currently upgrading the server hardware to our main system, with nearly quadruple number crunching capacit and RAM. We're quite literally dumping buckets of horsepower (ew!) into the system to eradicate and help prevent the site slowdowns. This should also remove the nasty dreaded SQL Beast from rearing its head.
> 
> We will try to give advance warning of impending downtime.



Lol, 15 to 20 minutes? Try hours! Jeez...

try to be a little more realistic with your estimates next time maybe?


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## Dragoneer (Jan 25, 2006)

There's nothing I can do to fix the problem. Gushi is out due to a death in the family, and until Jheryn gets on I do not have permissions to be able to reset the problem.


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## nobuyuki (Jan 25, 2006)

can I have an awesome cheeze status icon


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 25, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> There's nothing I can do to fix the problem. Gushi is out due to a death in the family, and until Jheryn gets on I do not have permissions to be able to reset the problem.



Nice to see where you and TOS' money is going that you can't even tweak the server when it's necessary...


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## Grave (Jan 25, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
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for once i agree with you...


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## Dragoneer (Jan 25, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
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I actually did have access at one point, but it looks like it was lost between server shuffles.


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## eorpheus (Jan 26, 2006)

lol i can't wait to go on the internet and piss someone off today!


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## Zerophex (Jan 26, 2006)

To eorpheus: It is safe to assume that your post = spam. Fix that.

To everyone else: So... THAT is the problem?

The admins go to do something and can't take care of the site... and then, they conveniently make sure that NO ONE may be able to fix the server while they're gone (may it be intentionnal or not)?

*clap clap clap*

I wonder if FA will ever be anything else than unstable and broken...


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## Xax (Jan 26, 2006)

Zerophex said:
			
		

> I wonder if FA will ever be anything else than unstable and broken...



Doubtful!


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## galadreal (Jan 26, 2006)

Wow, it is so nice to see that when the people running the site try to make it better that everyone wants to bitch at them about it.  No really, I am just so relieved to see that the idiocy of the mob mentality and the selfishness of people who are getting something for free and feel the need to bitch about it is still doing so well.  Because you know, thanking the people who put so much hard work into this place so everyone can have somewhere to post their art would just be silly...buttmonkeys.

Anyways, mods and guys doing all the work, thanks.  Some people at least are very grateful to you for all your time and hard work.


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## Ursus_Amplus (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> buttmonkeys



*Swings from the nearest lampshade screeching ape profanities at galadreal*


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> Wow, it is so nice to see that when the people running the site try to make it better that everyone wants to bitch at them about it.  No really, I am just so relieved to see that the idiocy of the mob mentality and the selfishness of people who are getting something for free and feel the need to bitch about it is still doing so well.  Because you know, thanking the people who put so much hard work into this place so everyone can have somewhere to post their art would just be silly...buttmonkeys.
> 
> Anyways, mods and guys doing all the work, thanks.  Some people at least are very grateful to you for all your time and hard work.



Uhh yeah I work on a site mainly for free, and people bitch all the time. That "you should be grateful it's free"  is really tired and lame. You are also not obligated to host a site at all and not take on the responsibility of running one. So yeah it goes both ways, please stop using that as an excuse.

I said that it was insulting to see that the people PAYING for the server, being treated like red headed step children. Doesn't sound like bitching to me. Sounds like I'm in support of those that put money into the site.


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## galadreal (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> galadreal said:
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I was not specifically talking to you.  I was generalizing all the people who are complaining about the problems the site has when they are not offering any help or support in putting it up.  I know you are working on a site, and if you are one working on it then you should be able to bitch all you want to.  But the constant pissyness of people who are not contributing anything and yet who want everything to be perfect RIGHT NOW just irritates me.  

Hell all I was saying is it would be nice is people would quit complaining about it and maybe just say thanks to the people who are working on it or investing in it instead of bitching them out for not doing it fast enough.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> Wow, it is so nice to see that when the people running the site try to make it better that everyone wants to bitch at them about it.  No really, I am just so relieved to see that the idiocy of the mob mentality and the selfishness of people who are getting something for free and feel the need to bitch about it is still doing so well.  Because you know, thanking the people who put so much hard work into this place so everyone can have somewhere to post their art would just be silly...buttmonkeys.
> 
> Anyways, mods and guys doing all the work, thanks.  Some people at least are very grateful to you for all your time and hard work.



I too agree that the "its free so dont bitch about it" excuse of YOUR mob mentality is very, VERY tired and not a worthy excuse anymore.

FA has had like, what, over a year now to get its act together? Yet even AFTER the site was put back up after the first one was bombed, it is STILL plagued by all the same old problems that v.1 had.

Its very VERY annoying and quite sad how nothing has really gotten any better since the site first went up!

Yes, i AM grateful for FA. I like the site despite all its flaws that never seem to get fixed. I do understand the people who run the site have real lives to live BUT, if you want to run a community like FA you HAVE to take the responsibility of such a task seriously, whether it is free or not and FIND the time no matter how busy your life is, to keep the system running smoothly and listen to the members who are reporting the bugs that never get fixed.
If you are unable to do that, then either let some more mods and admins onto the team to lighten the work load, or dont try to run a site. Sadly it seems the latter would be the preffered choice over the former since you seem to have to be some rocket scientest at NASA or some member of some ultra exclusive underground cult to be able to help out on FA...

But thats a different story...

People are relying on the site to WORK, and the admins to do their JOB. (sorry for all the caps but i dont know how to underline the text or make it bold) The site is for free, yes but that doesnt mean the admins running the place who encourage and expect people to join their site arent entitled to fix problems when they arise.

Also, as far as us being grateful to FA, maybe FA should also show some gratitude to the people who actually make the site what it is, the artists.

If it wasnt for us folk who choose to upload our work to FA and get people visiting the site to look at our work thus making the site popular and making more people join so that they can see the adult arts, then FA wouldnt be around. It would just be an empty load of webspace.

So when you say that WE should be more grateful, think of it from a different point of view for a change ok? Because the whole 2its free dont bitch" excuse is a moot comment these days.


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## galadreal (Jan 26, 2006)

see my previouse post for that one grave.  I was not pointing to anyone specific.  I was just saying that people who are not contributing anything should quit bitching because they are not helping.  And I think that a death in the family is a damned good excuse for being able to work on the site.  

But since you want to get all defensive fine.  You are not contributing anything other than pointing out people who do not follow the rules.  What do you miss you days as a mod or do you just like trying to get people in trouble.  "oh Mr. Moderator, he isn't following the rules, punish him." WTF

If you do not like it here, if the problems bother you that much, either contribute something constructive or leave.  That whole be grateful for the artist this is bullshit.  You think you deserve a medal, or some kind of award for drawing.  Well tough luck, the only kind of recognition you are gonna get for your art is people going onto the site that they allow you to post on and telling you weather or not they like your stuff.  

As for them having to make time to work on this site, it goes along with the being free, I doubt they are making money off of it since they have to pay for the server.  People have to have a real job and a real life other than just taking care of what you want.


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

> People have to have a real job and a real life other than just taking care of what you want.



I think that's the best sentence to close this pointless discussion.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> see my previouse post for that one grave.  I was not pointing to anyone specific.  I was just saying that people who are not contributing anything should quit bitching because they are not helping.  And I think that a death in the family is a damned good excuse for being able to work on the site.
> 
> But since you want to get all defensive fine.  You are not contributing anything other than pointing out people who do not follow the rules.  What do you miss you days as a mod or do you just like trying to get people in trouble.  "oh Mr. Moderator, he isn't following the rules, punish him." WTF
> 
> ...



No need to get defensive, you were the one getting all defensive before i even posted anything with your "buttmonkeys" and ripping into anybody that has a different opinion to yours.

But my first statement stands to your response. And yes i think us artists do deserve a little more recognition as again, if it wasnt for us, FA would be a pointless empty server on the web. 

No i dont miss being a mod and i report violations when i see them as it is encouraged to do so to help the mods out. I dont see you doing anything of that nature, so who is contributing what to the site now?

Also I contribute shitloads. All my art for one. nearly 13 thousand page views must have caused a few extra people to join FA so that they can see my adult work. This then causes them to look at my favourites and look at more artists work and vice-versa. So yes, i do beleive us (enphasis on US, not ME) artists who make this site what it is deserve a little more gratitude instead of getting our heads bitten off by people such as yourself when we might be a little disatisfied with the service that FA provides despite the fact that it has had a year or so to get its act together and work properly and it is even worse than it was before!

Yes, RL jobs are more important. So is a death in the family and i exclude that admin from this arguement but everyone else here is obliged to make things work and fix things as this is their responsibility as admins and owners of the site. I will say it again, if they want a site like this to stay up, then they NEED to take it seriously, and actually FIX the issues that arise on a daily basis by any means necessary. It is part of being an admin.


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## nrr (Jan 26, 2006)

Just to fuel the fires a wee bit.  Heh. 



			
				galadreal said:
			
		

> see my previouse post for that one grave.  I was not pointing to anyone specific.  I was just saying that people who are not contributing anything should quit bitching because they are not helping.  And I think that a death in the family is a damned good excuse for being able to work on the site.


Oh, but you have to have half a brain in order to see that some of the people who _are_ bitching are actually helping.  If you're merely a spectator on the sidelines who's seeing this stuff for the first time, you're probably more apt to see it the way you're describing.

Nevertheless, I must agree that Gushi's not being here is totally warranted; a death in the family is a big thing, and it is more than reasonable not to touch FA because of that.  However, not leaving root-level access to anyone else on the admin team was a stupid move.  This means that the other admins can only sit on their hands instead of potentially fixing problems in Gushi's absence.



			
				galadreal said:
			
		

> But since you want to get all defensive fine.  You are not contributing anything other than pointing out people who do not follow the rules.
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> 
> People have to have a real job and a real life other than just taking care of what you want.


Please go to English class.  I'm not going to waste my time arguing against the rest of this diatribe (let alone reading it) if you're going to choose to piece together poorly-formed sentences.  Double plus ungood if you opt not to make things coherent by neglecting to add transitions.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> > People have to have a real job and a real life other than just taking care of what you want.
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> I think that's the best sentence to close this pointless discussion.



Except that the main coder doesn't seem to have a job.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

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Who is the main coder again?


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## galadreal (Jan 26, 2006)

actually I have been to many English classes, I am just tired, have been out looking for work this morning, and do not want to waste any more time on idiocy, as I seem to be the only person here standing up for the mods who are constantly being berated for not doing enough.  And although I am a mere spectator, I have been around since the first incarnation of FA, so I do follow some of what is going on.

As for me being insulting, I have never really considered the term buttmonkey to be a severe insult more of a sarcastic thing such as I use on my friends, but take it as you will.  As for what you contribute, I think that the lack of having your art on this site would more than make up for not having to listen to your over dramatic claptrap and bitching.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> see my previouse post for that one grave.  I was not pointing to anyone specific.  I was just saying that people who are not contributing anything should quit bitching because they are not helping.  And I think that a death in the family is a damned good excuse for being able to work on the site.



None of my hostility is towards Gushi, my hostility is towards Jheryn, and I will not lie about that. My hostility is also not towards TOS either. The server was built by him, he should have made sure access was given. Phone numbers between members would be nice. Just so that people are in constant contact and communication.

Also, the site would not really exist and just be tumbleweeds if not for the users. You can have someone donate all the damn money in the world but if there are no users to populate it you have a waste of a site.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Who is the main coder again?


Jheryn.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> actually I have been to many English classes, I am just tired, have been out looking for work this morning, and do not want to waste any more time on idiocy, as I seem to be the only person here standing up for the mods who are constantly being berated for not doing enough.  And although I am a mere spectator, I have been around since the first incarnation of FA, so I do follow some of what is going on.
> 
> As for me being insulting, I have never really considered the term buttmonkey to be a severe insult more of a sarcastic thing such as I use on my friends, but take it as you will.  As for what you contribute, I think that the lack of having your art on this site would more than make up for not having to listen to your over dramatic claptrap and bitching.



If you consider well thought out points and true facts as "over dramatic claptap and bitching" then you have no place in a civilized and matrue arguement such as this one. No one is attacking the mods FYI, we are mearly not satisfied with how things are being handled.

Your arguements seem to only consist of mindless trolling and shit-flinging now, so i guess your cause has been out gunned by the REAL issue that people are brining up here, i.e. the FACTS.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

_General note:

Please refrain from attacks that become overly-personal, rather than focusing on the issues.
This applies to all people, not any particular post on this thread.

(Please also clip quotations where possible rather than just quoting the entire thread when responding to the previous post. Makes things easier to read for people browsing, later).

Many thanks._


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Also, the site would not really exist and just be tumbleweeds if not for the users. You can have someone donate all the damn money in the world but if there are no users to populate it you have a waste of a site.



Thankyou.


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## nrr (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> No need to get defensive, you were the one getting all defensive before i even posted anything with your "buttmonkeys" and ripping into anybody that has a different opinion to yours.


SCREE SCREE!  *flings poo*



			
				Grave said:
			
		

> So yes, i do beleive us (enphasis on US, not ME) artists who make this site what it is deserve a little more gratitude instead of getting our heads bitten off by people such as yourself when we might be a little disatisfied with the service that FA provides despite the fact that it has had a year or so to get its act together and work properly and it is even worse than it was before!


It isn't just the artists who deserve gratitude; though, they do play a bigger role than everyone else.  I think the programmers deserve some credit for everything since the site wouldn't be here with their work, and the lone sysadm, Gushi, definitely deserves some credit for putting up with everyone's shit when the whole operation goes down in flames. 



			
				Grave said:
			
		

> Yes, RL jobs are more important. So is a death in the family and i exclude that admin from this arguement but everyone else here is obliged to make things work and fix things as this is their responsibility as admins and owners of the site. I will say it again, if they want a site like this to stay up, then they NEED to take it seriously, and actually FIX the issues that arise on a daily basis by any means necessary. It is part of being an admin.


Be aware that we do have a word for this "[obligation] to make things work and fix things as this is their responsibility as admins and owners" in the English language; it's called "professionalism."  Some organizations (like FIRST) even call it "gracious."  What a concept, eh?

... and you're right.  If they want to have the site succeed and potentially be something big, everyone who's involved has to take it seriously (lol internet is serious business) and be willing to put in some effort and, dare I say it, hard work into making sure that things run smoothly and without huge gaping holes.  (For what it's worth, bugs are just a fact of life; you have to live with them.  Nothing will truely ever be bug-free.)


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## galadreal (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

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That or I am just getting a headache from having several people tell me how wrong I am all at the same time, just because I say we should appreciate the admins instead of being pissy about them not working fast enough.  Also trying to carry on so many conversations at once is maddening.  Personally, I do not like you.  But I was trying not to let that get in the way.  You say facts, but all you do is bitch about what other people do wrong.  You have nothing constructive or helpful to add, you just want to insult people, and try to get them to do things your way.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Uhh yeah I work on a site mainly for free, and people bitch all the time. That "you should be grateful it's free" is really tired and lame. You are also not obligated to host a site at all and not take on the responsibility of running one. So yeah it goes both ways, please stop using that as an excuse.





			
				Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Also, the site would not really exist and just be tumbleweeds if not for the users. You can have someone donate all the damn money in the world but if there are no users to populate it you have a waste of a site.


Yes, we've had this discussion before. I'm going to be boring and continue to agree with you, Arshes.
http://www.furpawz.net/fa/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6800&highlight=#6800


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## nrr (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> actually I have been to many English classes, I am just tired,


This is not an excuse.  



			
				galadreal said:
			
		

> have been out looking for work this morning, and do not want to waste any more time on idiocy, as I seem to be the only person here standing up for the mods who are constantly being berated for not doing enough.


The admins can fight their own fights.  Let them handle their own dirty work; they're more than capable of it.



			
				galadreal said:
			
		

> As for what you contribute, I think that the lack of having your art on this site would more than make up for not having to listen to your over dramatic claptrap and bitching.


article: PHP best practices (first draft) is one of the things I've contributed.  I write papers; I'm no artist.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> That or I am just getting a headache from having several people tell me how wrong I am all at the same time, just because I say we should appreciate the admins instead of being pissy about them not working fast enough.



Asking to make sure the people paying for the site retain proper access to the server is being unappreciative?

Sounds like it's appreciation for the fact they are the main reason keeping it up at this moment, because sadly the coding sure isn't at this point in time. In fact, it's one of the reasons the site has been down so much. TOS seems to be trying to fix that.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> That or I am just getting a headache from having several people tell me how wrong I am all at the same time, just because I say we should appreciate the admins instead of being pissy about them not working fast enough.  Also trying to carry on so many conversations at once is maddening.  Personally, I do not like you.  But I was trying not to let that get in the way.  You say facts, but all you do is bitch about what other people do wrong.  You have nothing constructive or helpful to add, you just want to insult people, and try to get them to do things your way.



Not at ONE POINT have i tried to insult ANYONE in ANY shape or form! I think you must be reading the wrong thread.

As far as not liking me goes, do i look like i care? Although technically i have done nothing against you to warrent hatred, but its your loss not mine.

Maybe i do not have anything constructive to say (although technically i just have in this very thread, but you obviously cannot see that for some odd reason) but i do not see you sayign anything constructive either. Bit of a double standard there i think?

But, i stand by my words and the fact that i have not, at one single point in this thread have i tried to insult anybody or get someone to do something MY way. So, again you are wrong, and just acting like a hypocrite since now YOU are trying to insult me with those false allegations.


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## galadreal (Jan 26, 2006)

you know, it is difficult to argue with this many people at once.  Too many people comming at me from all directions telling me how terrible and horrible and oh so very wrong I am.  So ver well, I concede to the mass stupidity that makes up so much of this thread, I am gonna go find some inteligent way to spend my time, or at least one that is less taxing on my stupidity meter.  

As for Arshes Nei, none of the above comments were directed at you, you were making a valid point.  I do think that people who are contributing to the site should have access to it to try to fix it when something breaks down, however I stand by my original point that if someone is not doing anything about it, they should quit bitching about the time it takes for the people who are, especially the ones who actually do have a life and have other things to do that are more important to their surivial an wellbeing than work on this site.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> No i dont miss being a mod and i report violations when i see them as it is encouraged to do so to help the mods out. I dont see you doing anything of that nature, so who is contributing what to the site now?


(Point of order: Actually, you were crying out for an official role, per your PM a few days ago. I hadn't forgotten that, btw).

And I wholeheartedly agree with those comments, Grave.
I've stated it since the start (_as my personal opinion_): the community does require a larger number of "official" moderators, admins and task forces (not in existence at present) and there are many trustworthy individuals around who could undertake those roles in addition to those people who freely take the time to provide constructive suggestions, support to other users on an ad-hoc basis, etc.

It's all valuable, required work, IMHO, but co-ordination needs to be strong on the "official" side.

=
aside: "Admins" in the context you continue to use are not to be confused with "techs", please.
Admins can point-out slowdowns and issues that are suspect beyond those officially stated for weeks, request that short-term solutions such as extra memory be taken once the root cause is finally discovered, donate extra money to pay for such or similar improvements, but at the end of the day they can do nothing about the physical server or system code. It is not their responsibility to do so.
(It is possible, of course, for one individual to be involved in both "admin" and "tech" side).


_JM-02-cents, anyhow..._


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> however I stand by my original point that if someone is not doing anything about it, they should quit bitching about the time it takes for the people who are, especially the ones who actually do have a life and have other things to do that are more important to their surivial an wellbeing than work on this site.


IMO, it's a difficult balancing act between being seen to making constructive points in a perhaps slightly forceful manner (may be required!) and outright "bitching".
Especially when there's a degree of frustration surrounding the events, even if not felt personally.



			
				galadreal said:
			
		

> Too many people comming at me from all directions telling me how terrible and horrible and oh so very wrong I am.


No, I think you're all probably mostly right: to a degree, however, people seem to be focusing more on differences of opinion, rather than that on which you agree.

Thanks.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

galadreal said:
			
		

> I do think that people who are contributing to the site should have access to it to try to fix it when something breaks down, however I stand by my original point that if someone is not doing anything about it, they should quit bitching about the time it takes for the people who are, especially the ones who actually do have a life and have other things to do that are more important to their surivial an wellbeing than work on this site.



I don't think fifty topics on the same issue such as "Hey the site is slow" or "The counters have stopped working" is productive.

However, most of the people on this thread were complaining about the very same issue I brought up. Dragoneer should have had access to reboot the server period.

The problem is, the people who did have access, and I'm leaving out Gushi because quite frankly he shouldn't be involved as much as he is - he's hosting as co location and shouldn't be tech support unless he's getting paid for that too since FA is NOT his site. I have a problem with how Jheryn handles things, sure maybe he's learning, but to be quite honest this is a LARGE site be used as a learning tool especially when the fanbase needs some stability.

Having a person who has come off unstable doesn't really get my hopes up because that's a large block to work around when things go wrong. 

It is a little hard to take seriously the excuse when you said he needs to deal with real life, when most of Jheryn's public posts is him complaining he can't get a job and yet he has a PAID journal, internet access to bitch abuot this problem, and is playing games with friends. Priorities.

I should NOT be finding his fursuit penis pics on the web when FA is down/unstable, I should not hear him bitching about how he can't find a job when there is http://aerotek.com - a temp staffing agency that gets anyone a job. But yeah this is a tangent, but that's why I get frustrated wtih the site. 

People want to pat backs of the admins just for the site to be existing, and to be quite frank it's not a novel idea, it just happens to be up at the moment that does a DA style thing with porn. Because if not for the porn, many wouldn't be around since there are other sites that have the same function.

This is not a "my site is better than your site" because there will be problems when more sites pop up, including the one I'm involved in. The difference is, that I do appreciate the criticism and know how to handle it for the most part.

So no not all of them are trying to have a life and doing things for survival. Bit of a misnomer there.


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

Can we stop this pointless discussion/blame game already?


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> Can we stop this pointless discussion/blame game already?



No, because it is something to learn from.

Those that find it pointless don't make good moderators or have nothing to contribute.


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

> Those that find it pointless don't make good moderators or have nothing to contribute.



I have something to contribute: You're repeating yourself. Oz was right about you all along - Negative bitch.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> > Those that find it pointless don't make good moderators or have nothing to contribute.
> 
> 
> 
> I have something to contribute: You're repeating yourself. Oz was right about you all along - Negative bitch.



Right, Oz the admin who can read other people's notes. Not to mention who was the person spread it around.

There's a moral standard to go behind Suule. 

Course, not once did I call you any names, if you can't be in a reasonable debate, you only make yourself look worse.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not recall ever "crying" out for an official role on this site. Nor do i remember even asking for that matter. However IF i did ask it would have only been that, asking. Why would i need to "cry out" for mod status and the responsibilities that come with that role?

If i did ask if there was any possible way i could lend a helping hand it would be for that reason only. To help out (despite the knives i have received in my back in the past for doing the same thing on (ahem) another site (ahem). 

I just dont think there are enough mods to deal with public relations. 
If i knew how to code i wouldnt be sitting here typing this id be on the team trying to squash the bugs (although a great lot of good it would do me if no one has access to anything right now) but i do not.

Another one of FA's problems is its lack of communication with its members. People report harrasment cases or art theft cases and it takes a day or two before it is delt with. 
Some people do not wish to wait that long, and why should they? Thats not to mention all the other cases of harrassment that could be out there but nobody reports them because 1, they dont know how (lack of a help desk) or 2, they feel like they wouldnt recieve any help even if they did ask because of the blatant lack of people out there to deal with it. 

People do not know who the moderators are or what they do. There needs to be a list on the site of all the moderators and admins and under a basic synopsis on what they generally tend to deal with so that people can look for help, and then ask for it to the right person. Maybe you can add that to the official list of "things to add" Uncia?

*shrugs*


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

ArshesNei said:
			
		

> Right, Oz the admin who can read other people's notes. Not to mention who was the person spread it around.
> 
> There's a moral standard to go behind Suule.
> 
> Course, not once did I call you any names, if you can't be in a reasonable debate, you only make yourself look worse.



Well if you don't appreciate me being honest with you...

As I said: You're repating yourself.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> However, most of the people on this thread were complaining about the very same issue I brought up. Dragoneer should have had access to reboot the server period.


Yes.



			
				Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> The problem is, the people who did have access, and I'm leaving out Gushi because quite frankly he shouldn't be involved as much as he is - he's hosting as co location and shouldn't be tech support unless he's getting paid for that too since FA is NOT his site.


Or willing to volunteer his time. Agreed.



			
				Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> I have a problem with how Jheryn handles things, sure maybe he's learning, but to be quite honest this is a LARGE site be used as a learning tool especially when the fanbase needs some stability.


Lack of willingness to appear to relinquish control is not novel.
_Most_ people have difficulty learning that one.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> ArshesNei said:
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Honesty, you lied when you posted about me on your little drama forum?

Also, repeating how. Be specific since you seem to be the one using the same lines.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Lack of willingness to appear to relinquish control is not novel.
> _Most_ people have difficulty learning that one.



This is true, but I believe FA should be in more capable hands.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
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> 
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ESPECIALLY after all this time....


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> > Those that find it pointless don't make good moderators or have nothing to contribute.
> 
> 
> 
> I have something to contribute: You're repeating yourself. Oz was right about you all along - Negative bitch.


And what does insulting somebody accomplish? Nothing. Agree or disagree, but lay off the insults.


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## nrr (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> This is true, but I believe FA should be in more capable hands.


I agree with this comment.


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> And what does insulting somebody accomplish? Nothing. Agree or disagree, but lay off the insults.



I'm being *brutally* honest. That's my opinion of her.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Another one of FA's problems is its lack of communication with its members. People report harrasment cases or art theft cases and it takes a day or two before it is delt with.


I am sorry, but I am going to have to disagree with you. Yes, I would love for all harassment and art theft issues to be magically dealt with and fixed within nanoseconds of somebody reporting them but that is not a reality.

Our response time is fairly well, and I like to attempt to get everything taken care of within 24 to 48 hours. That's a fair turnaround times.

Perhaps you've been spoiled by the age of "instant messaging" but we can not handle everything within minutes (or, always, hours) of the problem arising. Some of us have to work, sleep, deal with family issues. As much as the SQL problems pissed me off yesterday, our server ninja suffered a death in the family.

If I were paid to do this job, and not do this as sort of a... a second job ON top of a second job then I'd spend all day revising drafts, layouts and documentation. We're doing our best with the cards that we have, and we're always trying to improve our deck.

But the fact is no matter how efficient we get short of having a dedicated staff who works set hours to get issues resolved there's no way for a site our size, nor ten times our size, to promise nor gauarantee quick turnaround.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
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Then go post about me in your drama LJ forum. You have yet to bring up a reasonable argument and isntead used it to attack me.

I found the discussion reasonably interesting, if you did not that's fine, however I didn't use it to directly insult you.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
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Be brutally honest, but don't be an asshole about it. What good does that do? Who does it benefit? Nobody.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
> 
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Eh... that's a somewhat different point.
Jheryn could still be in control with zero responsibility for code.

Not being able to complete the task you started can be confused with appearing to relinquish control.
Have been there before, myself.

But I cannot speak for Jheryn on this, obviously.

And I doubt the _apparent_ tone of this thread is particular encouragement to speak, even though I know we're all somewhat more on-the-level than it might appear.


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

> Honesty, you lied when you posted about me on your little drama forum?
> 
> Also, repeating how. Be specific since you seem to be the one using the same lines.



Still you haven't shown me any proof of which 'my little drama forum' are you speaking of. (Last time you said it you said it was a community. So please be clear about it).

As for repeating: You're ONCE AGAIN blaming Jheryn for all the problems this site has. Even when he's not here now due to his PC failure. This old song you've been repeating ever since FA1.0 is really getting lame.

Say outright - I don't like him. Be honest with people. Like I'm honest with you - I don't like you for your behaviour. There are times you make some valid points, but going around blaming Jheryn about every damn problem this site has is stupid.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Our response time is fairly well, and I like to attempt to get everything taken care of within 24 to 48 hours. That's a fair turnaround times.



This I have to agree with, even with more staff members it does take time to investigate things. Mainly because it takes third party to look over things, and see if it's really an attack or an art theft, and not just someone screaming over someone coloring their "original Sonic character paisly"

So a day or two is reasonable, however because artists usually become hypersensitive to the issue they demand a quicker response.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
> 
> 
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I would rather take longer than I should to get things done right the first time than do it quickly and botch the job. And sure, everybody would like things done pronto, who wouldn't? But the fact is, in art, answers aren't binary, black and white... never usually an easy way to do things that will make everybody happy.

Even more compounded when fans get in the way.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
> 
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Regardless of this, the site needs more staff for public relations. I know of only two mods who can deal with such cases. Uncia and yourself, Drag'.

Two mods for a site populated by over 600 people sometimes is just NOT enough.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> Say outright - I don't like him. Be honest with people. Like I'm honest with you - I don't like you for your behaviour. There are times you make some valid points, but going around blaming Jheryn about every damn problem this site has is stupid.



LJ acts like a forum, it has threads LJ just calls this a "community". You posted a thread in the drama community you were made moderator of. It was when I said to get rid of the CSS until FA disallowed javascript which was the reason for the second FA hack back on Arcturus server. I never even heard of that community but people were posting it because YOU made the post.

I already said it in this thread, outright, read the thread before saying that I'm repeating myself because obviously you're not reading this thread very well either.

Not having a PC doesn't mean you still cannot remain in contact with your crew. I seem to have no problems contacting tech support when I have problems and I'm away from my computer. And the same when I'm needed.

Even during the con, I was asked to set up ads and tweak things, and I made sure I was available even though I was on vacation. So if I can do it and I've done it under worse circumstances, so can he. Easy as that.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Grave said:
> 
> 
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Beat me to the response.

Yes, a case MUST be examined before action is taken.
If it is not time-critical, a few days is fine in my book to attempt to do the job properly- and be seen to have done so. In a case of art theft, sending emails to the original artists to ensure that permission has not been given, for example.
If one takes a knee-jerk reaction egged on by people shouting "do something!" and simply deletes the artwork, then finds out permission was granted (but a note to that effect missed out by the poster), there is a good chance of generating totally unnecessary badwill.

Most stuff here ain't life threatening, so long as communications are maintained to state that something's being done when that is appropriate.

=


			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> If I were paid to do this job, and not do this as sort of a... a second job ON top of a second job then I'd spend all day revising drafts, layouts and documentation.


Would you mind terribly if I said you already appear to be over-committed (and not just to FA), friend?



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> We're doing our best with the cards that we have, and we're always trying to improve our deck.


Eh... I'd kinda disagree with that. Lack of advance planning and only half-decent comms has bitten us several times. There's always room for "better"; in a constructive manner.

And it's very easy to be too busy to create and delegate responsibilities.

JMO, anyhow...


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Regardless of this, the site needs more staff for public relations. I know of only two mods who can deal with such cases. Uncia and yourself, Drag'.
> 
> Two mods for a site populated by over 600 people sometimes is just NOT enough.


When we have more problems than we do now, and we're unable to handle the load, then yes, we'll start looking for more people. Right now I think two people are more than enough and things balance out in the end.

Short of 90,021,831 SQL errors we have relatively low user problems and PR-related issues. I could add 20 more admins and PR people today but that won't alleviate the problems any easier when they are beyond our control.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Not having a PC doesn't mean you still cannot remain in contact with your crew. I seem to have no problems contacting tech support when I have problems and I'm away from my computer. And the same when I'm needed.


Keep in mind TOS and I keep contact with Jheryn more than anybody else, and we generally tend to wax on to him about what needs changes. I filter things in and relay them to him directly.

I'm the lead contact in a manner of speaking. Some of the issues lately have been delayed due to unforeseen issues (computer problems, death in the family). I dislike it as much as anybody, even worse... but we're trying to handle things as we can.

It's a Charlie's Angels kind of setup. I'm Bosley.


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## Suule (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Be brutally honest, but don't be an asshole about it. What good does that do? Who does it benefit? Nobody.



I don't think that I was enough assholish by merely qouting somebody's words and nodding to them. 

_What good does that do? _
There wasn't any good to begin with in my opinion.

_Who does it benefit?_
General knowledge - Mr/Mrs/Ms X hates Mr/Mrs/Ms Y - don't  give them the same table in a restaurant.


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
> 
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Bill Murray or Bernie Mac?


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Bill Murray or Bernie Mac?


Bernie Mac all the way.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Eh... that's a somewhat different point.
> Jheryn could still be in control with zero responsibility for code.



Well I'm not saying you strikethrough Jheryn's name and eradicate his existience on the the site. I do think however, he is holding back the site at this point in time. No PC and all the access instead of delegating site issues while he has his issues to take care of is extremely unfair on those who can take up the slack while his gone.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TOS does have access, but did not have root access to help fix the problem at hand. This was an unfortunate oversight and will be fixed. But TOS does have access to upload and make changes on the server, as do I.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
> 
> 
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Understood, however, this method does seem to be lacking at this point in time. Perhaps you should have another meeting and see how to deal with this in a better manner.

We used to do this on Pike until we realized delegation of things and relinquishing more control to various staff members in their departments actually made it more productive.

Now for me to work on v2 but that's another point alltogether XD


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Regardless of this, the site needs more staff for public relations. I know of only two mods who can deal with such cases. Uncia and yourself, Drag'.
> 
> Two mods for a site populated by over 600 people sometimes is just NOT enough.


I know the other admins help out here from time-to-time but there are many other tasks that keep them busy enough, yet generally out-of-sight (monitoring submissions, for example).

Eh... more like 10,000 people, not 600, Grave.
Well, there _were_, anyhow... :?

(Only a small fraction of those are registered on the Forum).

=


			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Short of 90,021,831 SQL errors


Yup; get the server and a few bugs fixed and try to get things stable for a month or so on the key functionality required to support and grow the community.



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> ...we have relatively low user problems and PR-related issues. I could add 20 more admins and PR people today but that won't alleviate the problems any easier when they are beyond our control.


I was always a fan of having spare capacity built into the system, especially when we're talking free resources.
With extra resources, there would be more time to properly co-ordinate  various pre-emptive task forces that admins are otherwise unable to commit adequate time to.

At present, we're almost exclusively reactive and probably working longer hours than we each realise on that.


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## Ursus_Amplus (Jan 26, 2006)

Hrrr, right where to begin.

There is a massive problem with this fandom in that people cannot take things at face value, and insist on blowing things up out of proportion. Granted, Jheryn/Alkora is slow at bringing things up to speed, but given the trouble he has behind the scenes why do people continue to blow this out of proportion? 

At what point do the problems in real life not matter online any more? 
At what point does the shitty position that Jheryn is in become a non issue, that he must work around to get work done on the site?
And at what point do donations and finances freely given, turn into the bitter fight that was the end of FA1.0 causing an irreparable rift?

This all may sound overly dramatic, but think about it guys, this place is rapidly heading towards the rift again. On our left we have Preyfar/Dragoneer in Arcturus? old seat (again financing most of the running costs) and on the right we have the incommunicado Jheryn. This is giving me a huge sense of deja-vu and I have already expressed my thoughts that FA will run in cycles of dead-new sponsor-all happy for several months-sponsor has enough and leaves-dead. I have to say that because of Jheryns real life problems he?s not well suited to holding all the sites keys, he should give Preyfar/Dragoneer equal control over the site as he spends far too much time away from it.

The whole ?its free, stop bitching!? point is moot anyways, most countries have a freedom of speech act that you?re going to get people whining through left, right and centre in all walks of life. If you cant cope with the flak, take the site offline and fix it first, otherwise learn to cope with it. It?s that simple, bitching is the main driving force in getting bugs fixed, because the most annoying highest priority bugs are the ones that get yelled about the loudest.

Yeah okay, not having Jheryn around can be infuriating when there?s things to be done or fixed on the site, but at least try to think about what?s going on in the background. It?s all too easy to bitch about this or that on the internet from your own secure positions, but c?mon guys, is it really fair?


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> TOS does have access, but did not have root access to help fix the problem at hand. This was an unfortunate oversight and will be fixed. But TOS does have access to upload and make changes on the server, as do I.



Hmmm, yeah. This is the thing however, when we had a database crash or major error, we put up a temporary page acknowledging this and pointed them to maybe the forums, or page that did work in the meantime..or just apologized when it went all to hell, on that index page.

In the future, when you experience such a crash, make a mock index page doing the same. Bizzare sql error with no information really does irk users, and makes one think there is nothing being done.

SQL error - Admins please Check logs for Information and below
In Meantime, users please visit our forums instead *link here* would be a MUCH better solution.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> In the future, when you experience such a crash, make a mock index page doing the same. Bizzare sql error with no information really does irk users, and makes one think there is nothing being done.


This is actually on my agenda to get done ASAP, as well as error code pages on the site. I want /0 gone for good.


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## Ursus_Amplus (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> to get done ASAP, as well as error code pages on the site. I want /0 gone for good.



Where did that page 0 come from, I've heard of ghosts in the machine before but thats just silly.


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## facek (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
> 
> 
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> ...



that and maybe an editable part where they can through in a link to a thread on the forums explaining the current situation titled like "What's Going On: http://furp....etc etc etc.


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## Xax (Jan 26, 2006)

Ursus_Amplus said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
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Noooo I love that page

It makes me sad we can no longer comment on it.


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## nrr (Jan 26, 2006)

facek said:
			
		

> that and maybe an editable part where they can through in a link to a thread on the forums explaining the current situation titled like "What's Going On: http://furp....etc etc etc.


... or something perhaps even similar to LiveJournal's downtime bit, status.livejournal.com.  Though, I'm speaking purely in the event that FA grows too big to manage loads and loads of people commenting on the downtime all at once and bothering the respective parties responsible for bringing everything back online.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

Ursus_Amplus said:
			
		

> This is giving me a huge sense of deja-vu and I have already expressed my thoughts that FA will run in cycles of dead-new sponsor-all happy for several months-sponsor has enough and leaves-dead. I have to say that because of Jheryns real life problems he?s not well suited to holding all the sites keys, he should give Preyfar/Dragoneer equal control over the site as he spends far too much time away from it.


In a manner of speaking I do have some of the "keys" to the site, but I'm careful about how I use them. The site is not hurting, other than the god damn SQL errors (FUCK YOU, SQL! I eeeeat you!).

Things can be better, and they will... we've still got some toilets to flush before things start to seep.

They're nowhere near riftlike.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

nrr said:
			
		

> facek said:
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Actually, that's a good point. I'll get that setup ASAP.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

facek said:
			
		

> that and maybe an editable part where they can through in a link to a thread on the forums explaining the current situation titled like "What's Going On: http://furp....etc etc etc.


Yeah, sounds neat enough, IMO.
So long as there's someone at the other end to update, I'd guess; otherwise there'd still be a temptation to splurge.
*
Worked well on the relatively low forum numbers (without such links actively encouraging users) back when I was actively logging the slowdowns prior to eventual diagnosis.
http://www.furpawz.net/fa/forums/viewtopic.php?t=492

On the flip side, you might have more people across here prepared to grind axes and deliberately distress the community. (Playing to an audience is more fun when there are a large number of spectators).
All-in-all, our community is pretty "sensible" though: quite impressively so, even.

But, yes, good idea with that one possible concern.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

02c


			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Things can be better, and they will... we've still got some toilets to flush before things start to seep.
> 
> They're nowhere near riftlike.


Please, please, once FA is stable again, no _unrequired_ enhancements for a few weeks...
(Unless those can be scheduled-in as 100% tested code).

There are very few things that require to be "fixed" to enable that stability to be reached.
Not all-singing, all-dancing, just stability with more than enough functionality on which to continue to build the community...


=
aside: I'm still surprised you didn't expect FA2 to be so "popular", even with any perceived or actual "baggage".
Remember when FA first went live off the back of SA and picked up ~1,000 users within two days?


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## TORA (Jan 26, 2006)

Wow... I must have missed something. This all happened in the time frame of a few hours.


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## Dragoneer (Jan 26, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> aside: I'm still surprised you didn't expect FA2 to be so "popular", even with any perceived or actual "baggage".
> Remember when FA first went live off the back of SA and picked up ~1,000 users within two days?


Given the fandom's affinity for crying whenever drama erupts I expected people to be a bit leary about coming back to the site.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
> 
> 
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> ...


Given that there are still so few provisions by way of "communities" out there, I didn't... Sad to say that hasn't changed much in the past year or so 

Remember, too, the first 500-1,000 users are always the toughest.
We relaunched at 5-10 times over that, no? Including many of the best known names, too.

(All of which is a large incentive, even in terms of a "showcase" for those without the time or desire to participate greatly in the community aspects).

=
> Given the fandom's affinity for crying whenever drama erupts
Oh, human nature, _average_ age and gender ratio play a part in that, too, I suspect. We have to live with that and manage as best we can.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

TORA said:
			
		

> Wow... I must have missed something. This all happened in the time frame of a few hours.


"Server upgrade" threads can be like that, tiggy...


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## nrr (Jan 26, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Oh, human nature, _average_ age and gender ratio play a part in that, too, I suspect.


*Human*.  You said a bad, bad word. 

You'll invariably go to furry hell for saying that word, uncia2000.  Beware!


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## Grave (Jan 26, 2006)

nrr said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
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HYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMAN!!!!!1111ONEONE!11!!???

HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A WORD IN A FURRY FORUM!!!!!

(lol)


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

nrr said:
			
		

> You'll invariably go to furry hell for saying that word, uncia2000.  Beware!


*LOL* :lol: :lol:


_*is already there....
....dodging the wings and clawclaws of outrag?d furs-whom are not currently happy bunnies, dragons, wolfies, etc.*_


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 26, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> nrr said:
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I wonder if furry hell smells like a bbq given all the animals cooking there?


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## facek (Jan 26, 2006)

> I wonder if furry hell smells like a bbq given all the animals cooking there?



have you ever been to an Oscar Meyer Weener processing Plant?


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## dave hyena (Jan 26, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> Regardless of this, the site needs more staff for public relations.



I would like to be FA’s lord high executioner.

Cos’ you see, I’ve got this little list
Of things that never would be missed
Oh they never will be missed
I’ve got them on my list
They’d none of them be missed!



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Given the fandom's affinity for crying whenever drama erupts I expected people to be a bit leary about coming back to the site.



Everyone remembers those few who cry drama, and participate thereof, precisely because of that.

No one remembers the majority of furries who don't get involved because they don't get involved.


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## uncia2000 (Jan 26, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> uncia2000 said:
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_*licks obligate carnivore lips*_

==

*rofls @ DDTH's "little list"*
Gee, thanks 'yena! Think you must've gone ko-ko 

==

*attempts to return thread to its proper channel*


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## nikuramon (Jan 26, 2006)

gotta love carnivores


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## noxal (Jan 26, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> FurAffinity may experience periods of extended downtime between tonight and this weekend. Outages may last between 15 to 20 minutes, and there should be no more than one or two periods of downtime at most.
> 
> The reason? We are currently upgrading the server hardware to our main system, with nearly quadruple number crunching capacit and RAM. We're quite literally dumping buckets of horsepower (ew!) into the system to eradicate and help prevent the site slowdowns. This should also remove the nasty dreaded SQL Beast from rearing its head.
> 
> We will try to give advance warning of impending downtime.



I'm sure you're already doing this, but don't be discouraged or anything by the whiners. Sure, I'm gonna have a few days I can't wank to good porn, but...big deal! Guys, take your time, do it right, and I for one will be patient and such.


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## nikuramon (Jan 26, 2006)

noxal said:
			
		

> I'm sure you're already doing this, but don't be discouraged or anything by the whiners. Sure, I'm gonna have a few days I can't wank to good porn, but...big deal! Guys, take your time, do it right, and I for one will be patient and such.


There is porn all over the internet... 8)


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## noxal (Jan 26, 2006)

nikuramon said:
			
		

> noxal said:
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Yeah, but I'm too lazy to actually look for things in the absence of a favorites...thing.


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## AllenR (Feb 6, 2006)

So... is this server upgrade thing still going on? It's been a while since it's announcement and the site still runs like ass 90% of the time.


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## Grave (Feb 7, 2006)

AllenR said:
			
		

> So... is this server upgrade thing still going on? It's been a while since it's announcement and the site still runs like ass 90% of the time.



I would have to agree. Waiting a whole damn minute just to see something is taking the piss!


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## AllenR (Feb 7, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> AllenR said:
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Ha ha, minute? It takes about 5 minutes sometimes just to load my damn user page.


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## yak (Feb 7, 2006)

this is getting old.... untill the new server is up and running(SATA controller arrived yet?) the site _WILL_ be slow - and there is nothing to be done to alleviate the load. get over it... 
is there nothing else to discuss about FA in the mean time?....


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 7, 2006)

I have to agree with Yak. Give it time and the server will be quicker than greased lightening (without John Travolta even!).


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## *morningstar (Feb 9, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> this is getting old.... untill the new server is up and running(SATA controller arrived yet?) the site _WILL_ be slow - and there is nothing to be done to alleviate the load. get over it...
> is there nothing else to discuss about FA in the mean time?....



It's just been a while (2 something weeks) and a status update would be quite nice.


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## vashdragon (Feb 9, 2006)

*morningstar said:
			
		

> It's just been a while (2 something weeks) and a status update would be quite nice.



Yah im kinda curious myself.  Did something go wrong with the shipping.  Or maybe another problem.  I mean if they have to keep testing the server to make sure it doesnt crash in a blazing ball of fire when its launched  (Due to some unforseen thing we all know might happen.)  Im all for it.  Just kinda curious whats going on over there.


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## Grave (Feb 9, 2006)

*morningstar said:
			
		

> yak said:
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lol, status update? Here on FA? NAAAAAAAAAAAAH!?


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## dave hyena (Feb 9, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> lol, status update? Here on FA? NAAAAAAAAAAAAH!?



Obviously, I am only going on their last uploads or favourites or the like:

Aerak has no activity since 30th of Jan. 

Alkora (Jheryn) has been making favourites as recently as the 7th of Feb & Uploading on the 9th. However he seems to have a lot on his plate aside from FA.

Dragoneer also shows daily activity, however it seems that he is already a very busy man aside from FA.

Glaide has activity on the 9th of Feb.

Killy the foxes last activity was on the 3rd of Feb.

Pinkuh & Vitae seem to be out of action due to broken computers & lack of internet. 

Uncia2000 also seems to be active daily (helping on forums et al), though again it seems that he's a busy man aside from FA.

So (judging purely from the account activity or lack thereof) it seems that one or two of the Admins should in theory have enough free time to give us a status update.

Unless of course they still haven't got some centralised communication centre and don't know what the others are doing, or they don’t look at this forum or they’re not active on FA itself very much.

Although of course, I only see uploads, fav's & comments. If they're just checking submissions or whatnot and not commenting or faving or uploading an' all that...

If there was a centralised adminstrator communication centre, an admin could be appointed specifically just to provide digests of what is discussed there (and is suitable for dissemination) as frequent status updates (using the fender account presumably).


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## uncia2000 (Feb 9, 2006)

*morningstar said:
			
		

> It's just been a while (2 something weeks) and a status update would be quite nice.


Agreed, friend, but I'm not in a position to pass on any updates on the system or finances (aside from having thrown another large chunk of money at that).

Apologies, but I have also been keeping a rather low profile recently for various reasons, aside from not being able to make "promises" tech-side or get a consistently not-too-slow response time from the system in the evenings to help out more on the community-building side.

There have been other family/health/personal issues, too, amongst the admins & techs.
"Bad timing", yes, but difficult to make allowances for those...


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## *morningstar (Feb 9, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> *morningstar said:
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Both you and Preyfar do an excellent job of responding to user concerns, comments, and complaints and I really appreciate what you do. I understand that all of the admins and techs have real lives outside of the internet (or at least they should) and sometimes things happen in real life that take priority over what goes on here. However, it doesn't make me feel very comfortable as a user when a site administrator doesn't know what's going on because of lack of communication.

Why doesn't someone set up a private board here for administrators/techs/moderators to discuss development issues and then have someone pass on those discussions to us?


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## Taristin (Feb 9, 2006)

He didn't say he doesn't know.... he just can't pass anything on. And you just have to respect that, and know that they are doing what they can. 

Some things just aren't our business... And especially since we don't pay for any of it (donations don't really count, either) we're really in no position to demand information... We just have to accept what they give us and wait patiently.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 9, 2006)

Taristin said:
			
		

> He didn't say he doesn't know.... he just can't pass anything on. And you just have to respect that, and know that they are doing what they can.
> 
> Some things just aren't our business... And especially since we don't pay for any of it (donations don't really count, either) we're really in no position to demand information... We just have to accept what they give us and wait patiently.



People owe users a decent amount of respect, please stop using "WELL NO ONE BUT THEY ARE PAYING FOR THIS"

This is a personal website, yes, but it is heavily user dependent, you need to respect users concerns not just the admins. Morningstar has been more than cordial in her responses it is not something to knock her down for.

She's also giving more input and suggestions vs "well this site sucks! no update lolololol - I am the king of the internets" type of comments.

Because the time may come where users may do activities to help keep the site up, but if you try to use that "you're not paying for this" as an excuse everytime you just turn off the users.

You'll find that uncia actually agrees with me on that philosophy for the most part.


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## uncia2000 (Feb 10, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> You'll find that uncia actually agrees with me on that philosophy for the most part.


*nods* More than just a little bit, Arshes; http://www.furpawz.net/fa/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6800&highlight=#6800 

Taristin's comment was rather more polite than those "hey this site is for free, stop complaining, stop trolling, and you should be thankful that a site like this exists" types, though; merely stating that _demanding_ information wasn't really an option beyond a certain point.
Which I'm sure you'd agree with for the most part, too, when it comes to people continually asking for things to be fixed and _demanding_ to know why they're not.
Not that that's much of an issue here, since this community is a pretty mature bunch of people, by-and-large. (*purrs proudly*)

So, may I agree with you both, please? 

And yes, I'd be inclined to nudge for that update (and I'm sure you know how frustrated I might be feeling for us all, too, having been more than a month since I flagged those possible underlying performance issues that turned out to be very real ones...).

So yes, there's certainly still some "lack of communication" to tackle, but there's also most definitely been those "family/health/personal issues", too.

If this is currently about as "bad" as things can get, on the secondary server, and the community is as (visibly) tolerant of all those issues, I'm really looking forward to how things should hopefully turn out for people when running properly on the primary, with better comms and a handful of higher-priority coding fixes.

=
Certainly noted and listening to all those issues, friends.
Will see what we can do; and apologies once again for those shortcomings and thanks for hanging on in there for the community.

==

p.s. I'd only lobbed in that "aside from having thrown another large chunk of money..." comment to show that I still have a lot of faith in the "project" and to reassure people that we weren't about to collapse through lack of funding. Apologies y'all if that was read the wrong way.


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## AllenR (Feb 10, 2006)

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to sound rushy and the like in my comments. I was just a little curious about things, so I came up to the forum and see if there were any announcements and found out about the server thing. But when I saw the last post, which didn't really relate to news about it, was made some weeks ago, I thought I would ask myself if there's anything going on.

I'm also not trying to sound like a bitch/demanding with this comment, but it would be nice if on occasions like this, updates might be a little frequent, even if they aren't huge. Just to keep people up to date about what's going on. In this case I'd imagine most people might like to hear "Sorry for the server going in and out, but we're still working on it. But at the same time we've been having personal problems. Thanks for waiting." It might keep people out of discussions like this and the like.

Just my two cents. Now all I need is 98 more and I can get some gum.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 10, 2006)

uncia2000 said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
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I don't disagree that people are demanding and often posting redundant topics of "This isn't working" to the equivalent of a child loudly complaining in a car saying "Dad are we there yet?" Posting 50 times and spaming other posts with "yeah FA is down for me too" when the problem has been obvious for a while now doesn't help.

However, in this case, having seen Morningstar's posts and previous responses to issues, she's been more than willing to post up suggestions rather than complain loudly. 

This is not to say that Taristan was *RUDE* but I don't feel it was necessary to knock down a very valid suggestion to help bring cohesion to the team.

Hopefully a stronger team can be built because it seems "the let things live", "we understand you have personal issues", is actually becoming too skewed against your team. I think there may be some level of frustration when an outsider sees more frivilous posts (in their perspective) of art posts and freedom to whine and complain about personal issues. This isn't to say someone can't be human, but I can see how it can turn off users as well.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 10, 2006)

AllenR said:
			
		

> I'm also not trying to sound like a bitch/demanding with this comment, but it would be nice if on occasions like this, updates might be a little frequent, even if they aren't huge.



This is true, due to the fact that when FA is down, there is still no link to the forums but a rather amusing or frustrating "FA is experiencing a Large Load" message. 

People aren't going to make the leap to the forums because FA is a forumtype art site. So you may need to be more obvious in redirecting users to more current information, if you feel that's what the forums are for.


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## Taristin (Feb 10, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> This is not to say that Taristan was *RUDE* but I don't feel it was necessary to knock down a very valid suggestion to help bring cohesion to the team.



I wasn't trying to knock down anything. I was simply stating that just because we would _like_ to have a greater involvement in this site doesn't necessarily mean that we will/should/deserve it. Especially with everyone having their own intentions for using this site. 

Yes, this is a user-based site. But wether you agree with it or not, the people who pay for it ultimately get to make the major decisions. And they made the decision to not divulge what the situation is. And it's probably for good reason. I, personally, think that if they wanted everyone on the site to insert their .02 they would make a space for it. Weren't they already planning on making a suggestion box?

I'm only saying what I said because I have seen, in other communities on the internet, where a little bit of information, seemingly innocent in its own, is more often than not thrown completely out of context. Before you know it rumours are spreading like wildfire and people begin to doubt the word of the administration.

Last two things: 1) In the future, please do not take people's differences of oppinions as personal attacks on you or your friends. It's irritating to come back to a thread and be accused of bashing other users or of stomping on their suggestions. My post and opinion hold just as much weight as yours (I.e. next to none) as to what posts the admins read and or don't read. By me posting below Morningstar, and saying what I did, is it any less likely that an admin will read her post and think it a god idea and think mine to be bad, or even kissass?
And 2) Please for the love of all things good, please try to atleast spell people's names correctly. It's the least you can do to show a tiny bit of courtesy. Thanks.


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## *morningstar (Feb 10, 2006)

Not to be rude, but the point of the 'those who pay are in charge' argument is kind of moot. All users should have a say in what happens on a community website, period. While the site is down, the forum functions as a place for users to voice their concerns and opinions about the site, and is in essence a giant suggestion box.

Arshes, I liked the idea of having the MySQL error page / large load page pointing to the forums. I don't think a lot of the FA users know about the forums since they're technically not part of the site (being on a different domain). It would probably ease some of the frustration people are having by giving them a place to go to instead of some random (and in the case of the large load one, ironic) error message. I still think that setting up a private 'Administrators Only' board would be helpful too, since someone could post a message and others could read it and respond at their leisure instead of trying to catch people on IRC or waiting for them on AIM. Admins could work out issues there first and then make annoucements to the community in a much more organized fashion.

Being a site admin and trying to juggle your professional responsibilities and your personal life can be a very difficult position to be in, especially when faced with issues such as illness and death in the family. Gushi's situation in real life right now is much, much more important than what's going on here. I also hope that the other admins with real life issues can get them resolved soon too. It would be really cool to have FA back on it's feet again.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 10, 2006)

Taristin said:
			
		

> I wasn't trying to knock down anything. I was simply stating that just because we would _like_ to have a greater involvement in this site doesn't necessarily mean that we will/should/deserve it. Especially with everyone having their own intentions for using this site.



"Deserve" is a relative word, since that's not what is going on here. One does not make a large database that depends on user activity, to simply have it sit there. If they are, and feel that they simply want to waste money on servers as such, that is fine, but I highly doubt that this is the case. That is why the paying for the server is  moot. To host a site to many users, is generally an issue of pride and wanting to provide a service. This means it is heavily dependent on user feedback. Even if some of the feedback is negative. The point is for the admins to weigh in on that feedback, weed the good from the bad.



			
				Taristin said:
			
		

> Yes, this is a user-based site. But wether you agree with it or not, the people who pay for it ultimately get to make the major decisions. And they made the decision to not divulge what the situation is. And it's probably for good reason. I, personally, think that if they wanted everyone on the site to insert their .02 they would make a space for it. Weren't they already planning on making a suggestion box?



This is an php/html fix to actually point the site to the forums. If one can put up a "LARGE LOAD" message, it doesn't take that long at all to have it point to the forums in the meantime. The same goes for the SQL error message. It's not too difficult an edit.



			
				Taristin said:
			
		

> Last two things: 1) In the future, please do not take people's differences of oppinions as personal attacks on you or your friends. It's irritating to come back to a thread and be accused of bashing other users or of stomping on their suggestions. My post and opinion hold just as much weight as yours (I.e. next to none) as to what posts the admins read and or don't read. By me posting below Morningstar, and saying what I did, is it any less likely that an admin will read her post and think it a god idea and think mine to be bad, or even kissass?



Friendship issue is actually irrelevant- people I am not friends with have made good suggestions. A good suggestion is a good suggestion period. However, you decided to use an argument that actually looks bad as a whole: the payment issue. There is a difference between advising patience vs using that excuse on behalf of the admins. That is actually where I took issue with your post. That excuse is wearing a thin line since there may be a time when there will be a time people will do things to contribute to the well being of the site, whether making a positive community appearance, actually pitching in to pay for the site, help with accounting issues, or doing fundraising such as commissions or other service oriented projects.

Not to mention, are you conversely saying that if anyone donates or contributes to it, they suddenly have access to every admin decision there is? The answer to that is obviously not. So using that excuse actually brings in a whole can of worms, because it is implying that if you add money to this site you will have some kind of entitlement in the decision making process.



			
				Taristin said:
			
		

> And 2) Please for the love of all things good, please try to atleast spell people's names correctly. It's the least you can do to show a tiny bit of courtesy. Thanks.



That is quite fine and understood. My apology for the typo. I'll try to be more careful in the future.


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## Dragoneer (Feb 12, 2006)

Grave said:
			
		

> lol, status update? Here on FA? NAAAAAAAAAAAAH!?


Your negativity is about as refreshing as a glass of urine. We are prepping the system to go up live, and will be rolling over the start of this week.


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## Dragoneer (Feb 12, 2006)

*morningstar said:
			
		

> Being a site admin and trying to juggle your professional responsibilities and your personal life can be a very difficult position to be in, especially when faced with issues such as illness and death in the family. Gushi's situation in real life right now is much, much more important than what's going on here. I also hope that the other admins with real life issues can get them resolved soon too. It would be really cool to have FA back on it's feet again.


Things are finally moving forward with the upgrades. I didn't want to push Gushi when he was having his mourning, even though I know it put the server's status in a precarious state.

I'll be the first to say I hate, HATE, FUCKING HATE the sluggishness, but we're doing what we can to fix it. Ordering parts to refine the server -vs- just going through with a quasi-stable position.

My take is this: If the site has to suffer one more week for stronger stability -vs- going life with a moderately stable platform, I'd rather wait the week. I know the community may not agree with me, but it's a better move in the long run.


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## nrr (Feb 12, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> My take is this: If the site has to suffer one more week for stronger stability -vs- going life with a moderately stable platform, I'd rather wait the week. I know the community may not agree with me, but it's a better move in the long run.


(increment-mod 'dragoneer) for this paragraph alone.  I was going to say something to this extent earlier, but I just never found the time.

Though, he did have to come in and steal my thunder.  Meanie.


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