# Therianthropy



## Lobo Roo (Apr 9, 2007)

Well, since we seem to be on this track; who here is a therian or otherkin? 

"Therianthropy is derived from the noun therianthrope, meaning part man and part beast, in turn derived from the Greek therion (Î˜Î·ÏÎ¹Î¿Î½), meaning "wild animal" or "beast", and anthrÅpos (Î±Î½Î¸ÏÏ‰Ï€Î¿Ï‚), meaning "man". Therianthropes have long existed in mythology, appearing in ancient cave drawings [1] and in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs[citation needed]. The Inquisitions of the 16th century claimed to have documented therianthropy in mortals,[citation needed] specifically referring to lycanthropy, the state of being a werewolf.
The term therianthropy was used to refer to animal transformation folklore of Asia and Europe as early as 1901.[2] Therianthropy was also used to describe spiritual belief in animal transformation in 1915 [1] and one source [2] raises the possibility the term may have been used in the 16th century in criminal trials of suspected werewolves."

I'm a panda therian. (Used to think I was just a dog, until I met a druid, talked to him, and he saw panda - so I did some totem seeking meditation, and came to terms with it) 

So otherkin is dragon or other mythological creature, and therians are...non-mythological creatures.  

So who is therian/otherkin and those who aren't, what do you think of it? 

Also, for those who are therians, there is a good site in my signature to connect to others.

*note this is not in Rants and Rave; please, contain any flaming stupidity.


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## Rhainor (Apr 9, 2007)

<--------
See my User Title.

My Awakening began about 10 months ago.  I'm not sure if it's completed yet; it kinda feels like it is, but it prob'ly ain't.


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 10, 2007)

I am a therian, and have been aware since I was nine. I've been around the community since 1997. I started out on The Werewolf Page, had many a lulz-fest on Werewolf.Com, got banned of Goldenwolf's now defunct EZboard twice, went on Wolfhome primarily to be an ass (and still do from time to time), had a short stint with the ill-fated Dream Shift, barely survived the recently departed Were.Net, and now spend most of my time on #Crossroads at Shifters.Org relatively drama-free. I still need to get off my arse and get with Werelist though since Therianthropy.Org is dead nowadays.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 10, 2007)

Wait, so you pretty much get banned from everywhere? That's not really something to be proud of. Maybe you *shouldn't* come to Werelist. It's kind of nice. 

What kind of therians or otherkins (if you are) is everyone, as well? I'm a panda.


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 10, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Wait, so you pretty much get banned from everywhere? That's not really something to be proud of. Maybe you *shouldn't* come to Werelist. It's kind of nice.



I said I got banned from Goldenwolf's personal EZboard, which wasn't that hard to do *back in the early 2000's*... Emphasis on that because it was a pretty damn long time ago and not much justification for you to be a dick to me like that. That's the only place I got banned from. If you knew anything about Were.Net, you'd know why I'm ripping into it and am glad to see it gone, though I never got banned from there. #Crossroads is the easy-going place it is today _because_ Were.Net were complete dicks to just about everyone, and no one wants to relive that.

The other places I mentioned have a slight therian contingent, but aren't really part of the were community. But their content is good for a laugh sometimes. I already lurk on Werelist from time to time, and will chime in when I feel I've got something to say. That's on the advice of the people who, unlike you, actually know me. Some of them practically since I've been online.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 10, 2007)

Yeah, but didn't you get a temporary ban here too?  And you're being kind of a jerk right now.


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 10, 2007)

Do you even know why I was banned from either place? On this site, let's just say it wasn't for anything that would ever happen in the were community. On Goldenwolf's board, I actually don't remember because again, it's ancient. But either way, I got banned off one place several years ago, and it took me this long to get banned anywhere else. That's _all_ you know about me, and you expect me not to resent being judged on that alone? Again, people from #Crossroads who _know_ me have told me to get off my duff and start getting involved on werelist. Probably because they know the kinds of things that irk me in the furry fandom are mostly non-issues in the were community.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 10, 2007)

Well, if you didn't act like a jerk every single time I talked to you, knowing about you being banned probably wouldn't have made me act like that. But every post I've ever seen you make, you've been jumping all over someone. 

Ashamed you call yourself therian...


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 10, 2007)

Are you sure you really know the difference between furry and therianthropy? If you think being a therian means having some moral objection to "jumping all over someone", you obviously never hung out on Were.Net for any length of time. And btw, you've never talked to me. You've talked _at_ me, and I've replied, and vice versa, but we've never discussed anything that would give either of us a better understanding of each other. That's what I do with these other therians.

You can be ashamed to share a spiritual belief with me if you want just because you disapprove of my style of arguing, but the feeling isn't mutual. Unlike you, I don't claim to know you well enough to know whether or not I like you, but even if I someday do and discover I hate your guts, I still won't be ashamed that you call yourself a therian. I hope someday you can say the same.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 10, 2007)

I just hate being associated with jerks. They make us all look bad. I never said I had a "moral objection" or that it even had anything to do with me being therian. I said I thought you were a jerk. It's called opinion. Others have one, not just you.


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 10, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Ashamed you call yourself therian...



Nothing to do with you being a therian? Say what?

In that case, avoid me, because I don't think I want to be associated with you much either. As for the rest of Werelist, I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much.


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## Icarus (Apr 11, 2007)

Sweet.  Dun know Wolf-Bone was one. =)
kewl, learn something new every day.

Me:  best described as draconic, but definately not magical oh, heavens no. XD.


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## Icarus (Apr 11, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Ashamed you call yourself therian...



hey, woah there little buddy.
o.=.0
everybody deals with being 'kin differently.
hell, you should see how I act :twisted: .
I probably don't even fit the "Discription."
mostly because I listen to lots of Slipknot, Disturbed, SoaD, and other nu-/metal bands.  And I wear black everyday. =)~~<
The thing is, if you act differently after you awaken and discover, what do you achieve?  What do you become?  If all of a sudden you decide, "Hey, I'm going to start acting good all of a sudden just because I realized I was a Dolphin in a past life."  (just picking a random example and not targeting.) Then that's not you, isn't it. ^.=.^

As my mother's words that still ring in my head say, "Be yourself, and no-one else."

If some people want to be what's considered the "good stereotype" I say let'em.  If others want to be the "Black Sheep" I say good fer them.
Let them live their lives, so you can live your own.
(besides, you don't want to look like a member of PeTA now, do you?)


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 11, 2007)

Yeah, I'm not sure where the hell this guy's coming from, because I've never seen a were community that didn't have strong disagreement within its ranks. We _expect_ it. And usually, the minute you say some shit like someone is less of a therian than you or anything close to that, we're pretty quick to suspect some "tr00 w3r3" attitude. I think LoboRoo would have a _slightly_ different outlook if he'd psychologically had the living fuck stomped out of him as was par for the course on Were.Net, or had been a moderator of a Therian forum like I was for a while at Werewolf.Com; it had far more drama queenery and people talking out of their ass than Furaffinity could ever aspire to.


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## foxy (Apr 11, 2007)

Wolf-Bone said:
			
		

> Nothing to do with you being a therian? Say what?
> 
> In that case, avoid me, because I don't think I want to be associated with you much either. As for the rest of Werelist, I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much.


Do you believe there is an invisible tiger lurking behind you right now? Ready to attack and devour you whenever I give him the command to do so through supernatural means.

If you don't, why do you disbelieve this? There is absolutely nobody who has ever proven that such a tiger does not exist. If so your pick and choose which hazard to believe in and which to disbelieve in appear random, irrational and erratic.

If you do, then you better behave nice to me so I don't give him the command to devour you!


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## 823543 (Apr 11, 2007)

The message is too short. Please enter a longer message.


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## yak (Apr 11, 2007)

In each and every of us there lives a dragon. Big or small, sleeping, hidden away, or thriving and living in all it's glory. Our inner dragon is all things unusual, magical, individual about us, all which we believe is sacred and holy. All these things for which the people, wanting for all things to be grey and predictable, call us strange. They demand us to kill this inner dragon, claiming that it's either evil or silly, purely imaginary, and that it's about time to get breath of reality, or that it's a mental dysfunction that needs to be cured. Millions of reasons...
They demand us to kill.
From time to time some people buckle, unable to bear the constant pressure of society, and decide to kill it, for sake of easy living. And indeed, life becomes much more simple and less bothersome. But with our dragon's last breath, our inner world crumbles into pieces, millions of shards of a once majestic hour glass, all our fantasies, tales, kinks, weirdnesses, hopes and dreams sift away like the sand, deprived of it's former vessel - you.

.. Thus so the dragon within dies... leaving only a shadow of a former glorious beast.

Forgetting your fantasies is simpler then learning to dream. We are all born among men, to learn from each other, to discover our inner self in unity. But the only way to achieve that is to be a unique individual, a paradox that. 
If you're feeling great, you can't just keep it to yourself, and if you're feeling down, you can't help it but to seek compassion from anyone that can offer it. It's a subconsciouses cry for help.
So let's just preserve, cherish and adore our own individuality, let's assimilate only the good things, and sweep the stupid stuff under the carpet. 
Let's not push our own individuality in other people's faces.


[edit alt="because_i_feel_like_it]

In the end, everyone receives what they crave for. 
Those kids that want a new year's present - will get one from their parents; those who crave for a Christmas miracle - will get their miracle. Who believe in Santa receive miracle from him, who doesn't - a present from their parents.
It's all in the way you perceive the world and the things around you.

I believe that we start killing our own dragon at the young age, with loosing our faith in simple miracles.. And that is not entirely without the help of "rational" and "serious" grown-ups.
--

Poor freehand translation, excuse my English. 
Jesus guys, what are you arguing about? It's silly, lighten up. (ps: i'm not drunk, just sleep deprived)


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 11, 2007)

Just for the record, I've sent an apology to Wolf-Bone. I still don't agree with him on things, but I got waaaay to irritated last night.


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## Wolf-Bone (Apr 11, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> Do you believe there is an invisible tiger lurking behind you right now? Ready to attack and devour you whenever I give him the command to do so through supernatural means.
> 
> If you don't, why do you disbelieve this? There is absolutely nobody who has ever proven that such a tiger does not exist. If so your pick and choose which hazard to believe in and which to disbelieve in appear random, irrational and erratic.
> 
> If you do, then you better behave nice to me so I don't give him the command to devour you!



Did you just hit on me or something?

Trying to think up a response to LoboRoo's PM now, responding to Yak's comment when I can decipher his stream of conscience essay.


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## Silverdragon00 (Apr 11, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> Jesus guys, what are you arguing about? It's silly, lighten up. (ps: i'm not drunk, just sleep deprived)




Yeah, I really find arguing about religion or spirituality very pointless. Which would be why I always have to shake my head or make palm meet forehead when someone starts arguing. There is freedom of religion, let people believe whatever the hell they want. If they even want to worship a huge vat of beer, let them, no matter how weird it sounds to you!


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## Merilon (Apr 13, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> until I met a druid
> 
> did some totem seeking meditation



Druid? Totem Seeking Meditation? I know what a druid is... but what is this totem seeking meditation thing? Is it some kind of religion/cult/philosophy thing? I'm a bit curious


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 14, 2007)

It can be different for different people...for me? It involves praying, meditating, and etc. to find the animal that is your totem - whether you have an animal you're wondering about, influences it to...


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## Blood Raven (Apr 16, 2007)

For me my animals found me, in a dream. What do you think of Therians or Otherkin that have more then one animal spiritually?


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## TeeGee (Apr 16, 2007)

My take on Therianhropy: Anyone can have an animal that they feel like they are. It's the basics of anthropomorphism. A skinny man with larger eyes might be considered to look like a rat. A cheetah could be attributed to a runner, and so on. Except in being a Therian you identify yourself with said animal rather than just be attributed with one. Therefore, I do not believe that I am necessarily the animal of my choosing _is_ me.


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## foxy (Apr 16, 2007)

Consider the caveman. He subsisted on roots, plants and animals that could be killed with club and stone and yet could kill him equally as well. Countless objects of terror surrounded him. He stood next to rivers with no beginning or end, by bodies of water with one shore. There were beasts mightier than he was. He suffered strange sicknesses. He trembled at the sound of thunder, blinded by the lightning, hiding from the sky that grows black and menacing. 

Then, once upon a time, that caveman begged for the protection of the Unknown.

In the long dawn of human awakening, in the midst of pestilence and famine, crouched in dens of darkness, the seeds of superstition were sown in the mind of man. Early humans thoroughly believed that everything happened in reference to him. He believed that by his actions, he could excite the anger, or by his worship placate the wrath, of the Unseen Unknown. He resorted to flattery and prayer and sacrifice. He put in stone, or carved in wood, his idea of his Gods. 

Before long, he built an altar, then a hut, a hovel, a shrine and at last, a cathedral for these entities. Before these images he bowed and prayed, and at these shrines, he lavished his wealth, and at times sacrificed and sought eternal protection for himself and for the ones he loved.

Then something strange happened. He began to make others believe as he did. The few took advantage of the ignorant many. They pretended or were deluded to have received messages from the Unknown. They stood between the helpless multitude and the Gods. They were the carriers of flags of truce. They would intercede for them and upon the labor of the deceived believers that believed.

Man in all ages has endeavored to account for the mysteries of life and death, substance, force and why things are as they are. Each individual according to the structure of his mind, experience, tradition, habits of thought, intelligence and his prejudice or genius, however, will answer these questions. Credulity should be the servant of intelligence. but still, today, many cannot believe the actual, because the actual appears to be contrary to the evidence of their senses. Ignorance has always been and always will be at the mercy of appearance. Credulity, in many cases, believes everything except the truth.

In an age when history itself was but hearsay handed down, nothing was rescued from oblivion except the wonderful, and the miraculous. The more marvelous the story, the greater the interest was excited. Bards and listeners were alike ignorant and alike honest. At that time nothing was known, nothing suspected, of the orderly course of nature, of the unbroken and unbreakable chain of causes and effects. Everything was at the mercy of a being, or entities, which were themselves controlled by the same passions that dominated man. Fragments of facts were taken for the whole, and the deductions drawn were honest. The sad part is that it all still happens to this day.

Wake up people ! it's the 21st century !


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 16, 2007)

So, do you just look for threads to ruin, or does it come naturally? If you could prove that there was no such thing as a spirit, or that there was no deity, then you wouldn't just be some jerk on a furry forum.


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## BigBuda (Apr 16, 2007)

foxy(paraphrased) said:
			
		

> Something about cavemen, blah blah blah
> something about deities, blah blah blah
> something more about the few ruling the many, opression by feartactics and
> blah blah look at my wonderful wordusage and ablity to write excceding long posts that have the consistancy of a third grade book report, that are only barely aplicable to the current topic, when you tilt your head sideways a bit.
> ...



anyway, on a totaly unrelated note, Im not a Therian.
I have an intresting relationship with my fursona...

Edit:typo


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 16, 2007)

Buda buddy, your paraphrasing is pure win.


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## Canard (Apr 16, 2007)

I would say it's pure lose because it shows he probably didn't read what she typed or at least doesn't have a real response to it.

I'm curious to see what therians/otherkins/etc say to that. Or is it one of those you-have-to-experience-it-to-believe-it kinds of things like Jesus or cheese-sandwich visions of Mary?

I'm personally very skeptical, but I'm curious to learn more since I know nothing beyond the basics, which to me sound like furry nutballism. If you want the skeptical and critical out of your thread, ignore them or say so in the first post. It doesn't do much to inform us biased skeptics when criticism is met with responses like Buda's.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 16, 2007)

If Foxy's post made sense to you, you must speak idiot. None of her posts ever make sense or have a point.

This isn't a thread debating what we believe and we could care less if a bunch of idiots disagree. Idiots disagree with anything they can. :roll: This was a thread asking *who* was a therian, not who isn't but wants to make a jackass of themselves.


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## Blood Raven (Apr 16, 2007)

I was just wondering if anyone was going to answer my previous question....


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## TeeGee (Apr 16, 2007)

By now, I just glaze straight over anything Foxy says. 

Also, I was giving my take on Therian(ism?) and I apologize if I made an ass of myself. =|


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## Canard (Apr 16, 2007)

Good use of ad hominem tactics there. Guess I'm automatically an idiot because I disagree, and 100% of foxy's points are invalid because she disagrees.

Sorry I had enough interest to come into your thread, honestly curious to see your responses to her statements and learn more about therianthropy. I'll remember not to read any of your threads in the future LoboRoo, just in case.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 16, 2007)

No, I ignore Foxy's arguments because they're always idiotic. Like TeeGee said...just skip over it. There's no point in reading it. 

If you want to learn more about therianthropy, look it up. Personally, I don't feel like teaching you what is very simple to find out.


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## Pikachu (Apr 16, 2007)

I agree with LoboRoo, *FUCK SCIENCE !*


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## Silverdragon00 (Apr 16, 2007)

I personally don't listen to people that tell me my beliefs are wrong, I have a right to believe whatever the hell I want, and everyone else has a right to as well.

You don't have to agree with what I believe in. You can disagree. But posts such as Foxy's aren't disagreeing, they're meant to be criticisms to annoy people or hurt them. And a fucking worthless use of time and space on a thread.


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## BigBuda (Apr 16, 2007)

first, Bloodraven, i didn't answer your question because Im not a therian, so i didnt feel qualified to give an oppinion, you might try asking and werelist or something.

as for the next part, bickering and namecalling does no good to anyone (I admit guilt to both in the past, an perhaps and oversimplification of foxy's post as a pasive agressive attack). Lobo, that was a little rash in acusing canard of "speaking idiot", and canard, perhaps it was a bit rude to be so condecending, but foxy's sole porpose for posting in this thread was to incite anger, and you using the term "furry nutballism" is a bit rude as well. so I suppose I should respond to Foxy's post a bit better yes?

Foxy's "allegory" for lack of a better word is the common argument against orginized religion. It basicly tells of chance happenings reinforcing superstisions giving rise to beliefs of gods or spirits. That humans personified natural events like wind and rain and forest fires into deities to be placicated. Ancient religions (as far as my history professor, and "The Making of the west: peoples and cultures" tell me) very often had these deities, and rather than look to them for spiritual guidance they looked to them for protection, good crops, or for fertility, for themselves or the livestock they had jsut began domesticating.
Since this is what we believe the earliest humans thought of deities, people against religion use this to say that all religions are based on a human need to define the unknown. We are all inherently afraid of what we dont know or cant understand so by defining these powerful and terible forces of nature as being that could be bargened with we gave ourselves.
Basicly all religion is a product of the human mind, and that anyone who belives it is either an ingnorent sheep, following blindly the preching of others, or a person seeking power, explaining the universe to those who cannot explain the universe themselves and gaining dominon over their mind, convincing them their only safety is in following said prechings.

Im guessing that Foxy is lumping therianism into all religions (hence the has little to do with the topic at hand comment that I made), saying in a very round about way that thierians are a bunch of people who make up animal spirits to placicate the stresses they feel in life and feel a connection to somthing that make the world real or perhaps more livable (rather than state this she uses a complex ficional account of early humans to alude to her belifes in an attempt to show that she is on a higher intelecual level and using this to give her arguments credit).
Personly I dont belive this. Perhaps my god and religion are made up figments of some crazy dude name jesus that the romans crucified. I chose not to belive that either. Perhaps I am deluded and living my life as a christian for no reason. That is also something I dont belive. Now you say, Buda, you certinaly are chosing to ignore alot of "hard evidence" that foxy is providing.... Oh thats right, there was no evidence its speculation, But then again there can be no evidence to support my beliefs either.
All in all, beliefs are for each person to have for themselves. Skeptics will demand proof, and I cannot give them any, but then again, my belief is for my self and not for them so why should I attempt to give evidence for my religion to someone who so obviously does not want to acknoledge it as a posibility? Foxy chooses to evelvate herself on platform of pure logic and fact, and scorns those who do not wish to join her on that cold and lonely precipice.

and lastly, shame on you for turing me into a foxy, rambling on about nothing that matters in reference to anything in particular.


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## Blood Raven (Apr 16, 2007)

lol thanks Buda for at least acknowledging I had asked a question


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## Rilvor (Apr 16, 2007)

I don't know Lobo I would consider it more e-peen flexing if you ask me rather than anything else:|


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 16, 2007)

If you want me to pay attention to you, make a clear point and don't make a complete ass of yourself. Like Silver said, Foxy isn't trying to discuss, she's trying to harass people. Like Buda said, if you call in 'nutballism' then you obviously don't want to learn more about it - you're just harassing as well. 

So pretty much, Foxy comes in, harasses us. You come in and either don't read her post or think it obviously makes some sort of sense, and harass us, and then say you 'wanted to learn.' Bullshit. 

I'm not saying fuck science, either. I'm a biology major. Science hasn't proven or disproven the existance of a deity or spirits or reincarnation, etc. My personal beliefs are not a contradiction to modern science. If you knew anything you would know that.

Edit: Sorry Raven, I seem to keep skipping you. Personally, I think it's fine to have more than one animal totem, but I'm not sure about having more than one animal as a wereside. But just because I don't doesn't mean it isn't possible, and I've seen a lot of people on the werelist with more than one animal. I'm definitely not the expert on therianthropy - because what it comes down to is what you believe personally, and I can't tell you what to believe.


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## Pikachu (Apr 16, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> If you want me to pay attention to you, make a clear point and don't make a complete ass of yourself. Like Silver said, Foxy isn't trying to discuss, she's trying to harass people. Like Buda said, if you call in 'nutballism' then you obviously don't want to learn more about it - you're just harassing as well.
> 
> So pretty much, Foxy comes in, harasses us. You come in and either don't read her post or think it obviously makes some sort of sense, and harass us, and then say you 'wanted to learn.' Bullshit.
> 
> ...



You are a biologist ? In your profile it says your a student.
If you really there a major in biologist, you would never say: [Science hasn't proven or disproven the existance of a deity.]
A major biologist must have a PHD in philosophy, you know nothing about philosophy. All you do is making _Ad hominem_ against someone who disagree with your spiritual belief that contains absolutely no evidence.

Go read some Richard Dawkins.
Go read some Daniel Dennett.

They will purely disagree with you.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 16, 2007)

You can't read. I said I am a biology major. I am in school. My point was that I am not anti-science.  And "If you really there a major biologist" ?

Go learn some English.


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## Pikachu (Apr 16, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> I am not anti-science.


Did you know that evolution disprove the idea of having souls ?


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## BigBuda (Apr 16, 2007)

Pikachu said:
			
		

> LoboRoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Evolution is the adaptation over time of a genetic structure through natural selection to cope with envoromental, preditorial, or other stresses on the mortality of a species
dont recall it ever disproving souls, but that is neither here nor there, this is a thread for people to tell of thier thierianthropy

edit: wrong button


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## Pikachu (Apr 16, 2007)

BigBuda said:
			
		

> Evolution is the adaptation over time of a genetic structure through natural selection to cope with envoromental, preditorial, or other stresses on the mortality of a species
> dont recall it ever disproving souls, but that is neither here nor there, this is a thread for people to tell of thier thierianthropy
> 
> edit: wrong button


Well, this one's short and sweet, and will work against only a narrowed selection of various doctrines. It basically says that since, obviously, simple life forms do not have souls, and we are merely evolved forms of the same thing, then surely we don't have souls either. At a deeper level, the argument challenges the believer to define at which point living beings acquire souls. Do only humans have souls? But then you have problems with primates, since they are so incredibly similar to us both physically and behaviorally. Do only primates have souls? But then you have a problem with the simians, since monkeys are so similar to apes both physically and behaviorally. Do only primates and simians have souls? But then you have a problem with the prosimians, etc, etc, etc. Eventually, you are forced to retreat to a generalization over all mammals, then over all animals, and finally over all life -- at which point you arrive at a stark contradiction with a clearly observable fact -- that the lowest forms of life do not have souls.


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## Rilvor (Apr 16, 2007)

Don't forget that evolution is just that... a theory.


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## Pikachu (Apr 16, 2007)

Spirit Wolf said:
			
		

> Don't forget that evolution is just that... a theory.


Define the word: ''Theory''


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## Hakumei Ookami (Apr 16, 2007)

Could I just have my say in this evolution/creationism discussion?

Both of these are theories in which there is little proof to say that one is true and the other is not.  Creationism - that God created all life forms - has very little proof if any, and evolution, although it has proof, also has many facets that disprove it altogether.

What I propose (and it's something which I find a feasible prospect) is that evolution did occur, but it was facillitated by some sort of greater being, something called "Intelligent Design".  Reason being - there are to many adaptations which animals have made to live for it to have happened over chance mutations or natural selection.  This is a good theory because it pleases both sides of the Religion/Science divide, and I only heard of it recently when my Biology Tutor taught us about it.

Although, I must say, I am a believer in evolution more than in creationism.


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## BigBuda (Apr 16, 2007)

Pikachu said:
			
		

> But then you have problems with primates, since they are so incredibly similar to us both physically and behaviorally.


Well, seeing as humans cannot interbreed with the "great apes" chimps or any other primate, I dont see a reason why I cant differentiate between the two very similer species.

evolution happens, species change and adapt, we ahve seen it happen in the past 100 years
The Theory of Evolution as it pertains to the evolution of all life on earth is a theory, which is defined as
1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.Â Â 
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.Â Â 

But again, if you wish to debate the existance of souls, or the theory of evolution, this is not the thread to do it in.


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## Icarus (Apr 16, 2007)

Theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

There ya go.
I would like to think that all creatures have some sort of "soul" that binds them to that species.  I would also like to think that the more advanced a species gets, the more complicated the "soul" gets.  But I am one that believes that sometimes the simplest answer is most likely the right one.  And yes, I know when I say, "I would like to believe without proof," I might be making a few enemies, but that's just who I am.  Because of my views I'd rather just sit there quietly and let the person who believes that they were once a dinosaur, a pecock, or even a giant isopod in a "past life" speak their mind and then afterwards just say, "You know, that is a very interesting story, and I am actually pretty impressed.   "  That way they are free to dream, that way their minds will be still free to wonder and learn as man once did before, that way they can still have hope.  And if I have a different Idea than them, I wouldn't rub it in their faces unless I was in a debate or something like that.  I just can't see any reason for someone to tell a story about themselves and have another person run at the speed of light to them and then start yelling, "You're wrong, stop spreading your free ideas and filth like that.  Unless it can be proven by something we can touch or see, it doesn't exist.  So please, stop sowing ideas into people's heads, we don't want free thoughts anymore."

I guess I do agree with Yak though, we have pounded the thought of, "If we can't see it, it doesn't exist."  So far in our minds that we have a hard time even trying to speak freely with a new idea.  This is also one of the reason I keep ideas to myself, because I know that even if I say these ideas to people, the ideas, thoughts, and stories will only fall to deaf ears.  I, for one, would really like to accept the idea that humanity evolved from certain cetaceans.  But if I say it, the only thing that will come is debate and arguements because I am just wanting to base an idea on a feeling.  But hey, who am I kidding, feelings don't exist to the exteme logical right?  I mean love is just the will to mate, right?  Hate is just the feeling of intense primitive aggression because another creature is messing with your territory, right?  Heck, why don't we all just walk single-file line in grey halls wearing black or white clothing with shaved heads, that way our own uniqueness will be destroyed with our personality, and we will all be the same.  That way everybody just agrees with only the extreme logic.  Children instead of singing songs will be chanting multiplication tables and instead of reading books will be researching textbooks.  Because that's what every person in life wants, isn't it?


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 16, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> In each and every of us there lives a dragon. Big or small, sleeping, hidden away, or thriving and living in all it's glory. Our inner dragon is all things unusual, magical, individual about us, all which we believe is sacred and holy. All these things for which the people, wanting for all things to be grey and predictable, call us strange. They demand us to kill this inner dragon, claiming that it's either evil or silly, purely imaginary, and that it's about time to get breath of reality, or that it's a mental dysfunction that needs to be cured. Millions of reasons...
> They demand us to kill.
> From time to time some people buckle, unable to bear the constant pressure of society, and decide to kill it, for sake of easy living. And indeed, life becomes much more simple and less bothersome. But with our dragon's last breath, our inner world crumbles into pieces, millions of shards of a once majestic hour glass, all our fantasies, tales, kinks, weirdnesses, hopes and dreams sift away like the sand, deprived of it's former vessel - you.
> 
> ...




I have to say, that was beautiful and really spoke to me ^.=.^

I'm not sure if I'm Otherkin or not, but at the moment I am deffinentally doing alot of soul-searching to find out.  As for creatanism, I don't beleive so much as Adam and Eve, but a greater power nudeged those few first molecules together that created the beginnings of life as we know it and has sat back and watched us grow.


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## Nyan (Apr 16, 2007)

> but a greater power nudeged those few first molecules together that created the beginnings of life as we know it and has sat back and watched us grow.


Actualy we can create life with less than 11 amino acids. Does that mean amino acids create a ''soul'' ?

Honnesly i have hard time understanding religion.


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## foxy (Apr 16, 2007)

Also, 

Plants are also animate. They move their heads towards the sun and their petals close at night and open in the morning. They have complex cellular biological activities much like ours â€“ would a plant have a soul ? What you are trying to define is life. Is there a clear sharp boundary between life and non-life? Apparently not. We can look to many chemical reactions that appear passive and others quite active and then we can examine biology which appears no more than a more complex set of chemical reactions. Where does the line fall between life and non-life? It doesnâ€™t exist; it is just a matter of degree. Does a soul then simply appear as chemical reactions become more complex ? Or is the term used because of past ignorance of underlying molecular activities ? There is much evidence that brain has something to do with it. Thinking appear to occur in the brain. There are living things without brain who do not show sign of thinking - flowers for example. There are non-living things with brain-like things in them who do show sign of behavior similar to thinking - computers. So I would put my bet on brains is the reason why we can think and things without brains can not.





			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Foxy isn't trying to discuss, she's trying to harass people.


Is education an harassment ?


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 16, 2007)

Nyan said:
			
		

> > but a greater power nudeged those few first molecules together that created the beginnings of life as we know it and has sat back and watched us grow.
> 
> 
> Actualy we can create life with less than 11 amino acids. Does that mean amino acids create a ''soul'' ?
> ...



Its hard to say, maybe the energy in the amino acids create the soul, the energy from the electrons coming together in the thing we know as life, maybe its some reaction from particles we can't see that spark life that create a soul.  Also, whos to say a plant does not have a soul? Just because they cannot openly express themselves in the way animals can, dosn't mean they dont exisit.


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## Nyan (Apr 17, 2007)

Orlith Nemeth said:
			
		

> Its hard to say, maybe the energy in the amino acids create the soul, the energy from the electrons coming together in the thing we know as life, maybe its some reaction from particles we can't see that spark life that create a soul.Â Â Also, whos to say a plant does not have a soul? Just because they cannot openly express themselves in the way animals can, dosn't mean they dont exisit.


If 11 amino acids = 1 soul, then how much souls have a human being ?


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> Is education an harassment ?



To call it education, you have to actually *know* something. You're just talking out your ass.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 17, 2007)

Nyan said:
			
		

> Orlith Nemeth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it was just speculation that the combination of amino acids create a soul, big or small. (with exeptions) IMHO a body can only have one soul...maybe 11 amino acids make a "soul molecule" that become part of the greater soul itself.


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## Nyan (Apr 17, 2007)

Orlith Nemeth said:
			
		

> it was just speculation that the combination of amino acids create a soul, big or small. (with exeptions) IMHO a body can only have one soul...maybe 11 amino acids make a "soul molecule" that become part of the greater soul itself.



So if i loose my leg does that mean i loose my ''soul's'' leg ?


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> To call it education, you have to actually *know* something. You're just talking out your ass.


Umm... ok, You dont sound very friendly, so tell me what do you know about biology & Therianthropy ?


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 17, 2007)

Nyan said:
			
		

> Orlith Nemeth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That makes sence to me, and it would be waiting for you in whatever place you are deemed to goto in the afterlife/another life, waiting to become hole again


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## DPAK (Apr 17, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> Does a soul then simply appear as chemical reactions become more complex ? Or is the term used because of past ignorance of underlying molecular activities ? There is much evidence that brain has something to do with it. Thinking appear to occur in the brain. There are living things without brain who do not show sign of thinking - flowers for example. There are non-living things with brain-like things in them who do show sign of behavior similar to thinking - computers. So I would put my bet on brains is the reason why we can think and things without brains can not



[sarcasm]Really? Brains help you think?![/sarcasm] Honey, that fact was already established a long time ago. Also, this little rant has nothing to do with the topic at hand... or the topic that its become (about creationism and souls and such). And an individual's aspect on religion will form their own opinion on the exsistense of souls. They're like God: sure you can't prove their exsistence, but try to dissprove them at the same time.

Now that that's out of the way: therianthropy. I really haven't reached the conclusion yet on whether or not the lynx (my fursona) is my totem animal. I'd have to find time to do some deep soul searching first.


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

DPAK said:
			
		

> I'd have to find time to do some deep soul searching first.


I suggest some science program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5f_oiaABS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLJXQKyeScA


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## Icarus (Apr 17, 2007)

an intersting conversation I just had:

backround info:  
I was RPing with a dragoness in SL.
A "rival male" came up, we fought, because I knew when to quit I got to be with her.  "Rival male" is sore.
two days later we start a chat that leads to this:

Me:  And now some people don't believe that ther is at leas a soul or life force to a creature that meakes it unique.
Him:  i dont believe in a soul myself
Me:  Then what happens at death?
Him:  i believe what makes each of us unique is the culmination of all our life experiences
Me:  Everything that happens to you, all achievements, goals, victories, defeats all ammount to nothing?
Him:  When you die, you die there is nothing after
M:  Not even re-incarnation?
H:  What really makes a difference in this world is not what you have, but what you do with it, there is no reincarnation no afterlife.
M:  When you were little, did you dream of having an afterlife, where you would see your friends or family again?
H:  No, when someone was gone, i never saw them again.  I said goobye and moved on.
M:  You don't think this way when you are little, that is what is happening, like 4 or 5?
H:  Four of five i never lost anyone yet, not until i was around 13
M:  What about a pet?
H:  I was never too fond of my pets, cept one, the only pet i really cared about was charlie, my dog.  I got a lot of good memories with him, he stuck by me when no one else would.
M:  When did charlie die?  Do you blame yourself?
H:  He got bit by a snake and died, i never saw the body.
M:  How did you feel?  There, did you just say goodbye, I'll never see you again?
H:  There was nothing I could do for him, and I knew this...I kept hopin to see him again but I knew in my heart that he was gone.  It hurt but I learned to live with it.
M:  But, you still felt like you wanted to see him again, you still had hope.
H:  I don't take shortcuts to get around my emotions, I face them head on.
M:  Now, but facing emotions head on, how does that make you feel really?  Better or Worse?
H:  He's gone, there is no hope left for him.  It makes me feel...well, it makes me feel like I know the truth...like I know myself, many people don't.  The run and hide from their emotions because it's too painful.
M:  Well then, how does it feel in your heart?  Like Pins and Needles?  Or Warm Feathers?  *truthfully*
H:  It really doesn't feel like much of anything.
M:  That is exactly what I am trying to reach.
H:  When you face the truth, it doesn't hurt and it doesn't feel good, it just is.
M:  What's the point of facing the truth if there is no emotional moral to back your claim?
H:  What claim?
M:  Like say, if you were to go up to a little kid who's grandmother just died and say, "little child, you granmother is gone forever." how do you feel there?  Or do you even say that?
H:  What i would say depends on the exact situation.
M:  ...Or do you still want them to have the chance to dream?
H:  I play it by ear, but I don't kid the kid.
M:  Ok...they're at the funeral.
H:  I say nothing unless they come to me.  After the funeral I talk to them.  I just can't tell you what I say because I react to what they say and do.
M:  But rhetorically, if it was still just an oh, 6 year old who lost a grandparent that they loved, you would say, forget them, he/she is gone forever?  Because that just can't suit right for me.
H:  Ok, lets do a roleplay to show you what I would do...
M:  You know when I asked, how do you feel?  Pins and Needles or Warm Feathers?
H:  Ya
M:  Beause I feel Pins and Needles, not for me, but for you...What do you dream about at night?
H:  I have really strange dreams sometimes, but not often.  Most of the time I don't dream.
M:  Do you ever feel that, that is just a cry from your Sub-Concious?
H:  I can tell you about three dreams I had remembered vividly from my youth.
M:  Ok
H:  These were all real eye openers, the first one was me and my family were driving along a cliff over a roaming ocean.  It was just me and my brothers, no parents or adults of any kind, suddenly, I was in the water alone and all I see was a sharks mouth.  I wake up.
M:  Intersting.
H:  Second one:  Me and my brothers are in the car again, in a parking lot next to a ravine, I accidently hit the brake release and we roll backwards.  Then i wake on the way down.
M:  Go on  .
H:  Third and most important:  My dad had just got a new golf game for his compy, so in my dream my brothers and i were playing golf, with garden rakes.  I slam the rake down onto his foot severing it, and I wake up terrified in a cold sweat.  Took 10 min for me to calm down and sleep.  I fight with my brothers a lot, but that showed me how I could feel if I ever hurt them.
M:  Hmm...I'm no expert dream interperator, but the first one sounds like a fear of being consumed by a darker force.
H:  Fearof being alone.
M:  The second sounds like a mistake that cause some sort of "backfire" that led to a downwards spiral.
H:  Just afraid of messing up irecovably (doing something bad I can't undo)
M:  So: Fear of Being Alone, Fear of Failure, and Fear of Harming Those of Importance to You?
H:  Bingo, All three came into play with Toscar  [the dragoness I mentioned earlier]
*skip a bit*
M:  Have you ever created an Idea for fun?  Just to see how it goes?
H:  All the time when I roleplay.
M:  Ok, that's a red flag.  You create only when you roleplay?
H:  No I create all of the time, it's just that people don't like to listen.
M:  Do you express ideas?
H:  People don't like to listen to my ideas, then I just get hurt.
[speeding process]
M:  have you tried drawing? Art is freedom, expression, and emotion all in one bundled package.
H:  I, like everyone eles in the world use what's already there in my mind, I piece pieces together out of random thoughts and create somthing new.
M:  Sounds like Mathematical art, it could be somthing you're looking for.
H:  I'm not looking for anything
M:  Everybody is looking for something.
H:  What I really want is acceptance.
M:  What do you want acceptance in?
H:  Acceptance of me, of who I am, not just brushing me aside or ignoring me, but actually listening to what I have to say and understanding it.
M:  So, you don't want to be the same old clone who walks the streets of the world, yo want to be you.
H:  Right, and I want others to accept that.
M:  Start by looking for forums, myspace, or face book.  Then join groups that have similar likes.  There you will find a plethora of people that think the same as you.

So to me, this seems like this person went Extremely logical because he wasn't accepted and he was afraid of those three major fears:  Lonliness, failure, and irreparable damage.  This then turned his heart dull, noid, and void of feelings, to where he could tell or even yell out "factual logic" to others and not feel anything still.  So I gave the prescription of ART.  Art = pure human emotion.  I told him to look at other arts, see the stories behind the paintings.  And hopefully, this will help him feel better.

Sorry it was so long ^.=.^
For a while I thought I was Hannibal Lector.. o.=.0 with the questions and all.....

btw:
does this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAB0dbc3Es
count as "power of the soul?"
I mean they have scientific instruments measuring details.  And they have Photographs of the actions done.  Plus we're watching a recording.
So...
Can Psionics (this is basically a branch of psionics if you look at the psion's forums) be used to prove a "soul" exists?


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

Icarus said:
			
		

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAB0dbc3Es


Here's the link of that kung-fu chi master getting his ass kicked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc

James Randi still offers a $1 million prize to anyone who can prove they engage in paranormal activity.

Didn't any of you watch Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? That's all the evidence you need! Think of all of the stories and eyewitness reports that a film like that is based on. People clearly could use those powers back then, and use them *really damn well*... they could jump 30 stories and walk on water and all sorts of crazy shit. Now of course people aren't as experienced and much knowledge has been lost... if a chi user fights a skeptic today, it won't work because of the skeptics passive disbelief shield, or even because the skeptic's toes are pointed a certain way. The ancient chi users knew how to get around these obstacles, but alas, today's "masters" cannot.
First, most of the crew is already pre-disposed to believing the guy, so it looks like they're falling for the power of suggestion.
Second, with the rifle pellet, he didn't show the camera the back side of his hand -- he could've been hiding a spent round, pinched with his fingers, on the backside of his hand, and moved it to the front after the rifle only fired off powder -- just like finding a quarter behind a person's ear.
Interesting that with the volt meter, he insists that it's not electricity, just chi, so it shouldn't work anyways. Then he can light a LED bulb? Hypocrite, or liar?
Of course, after the classic object-through-table trick, performed by thousands of american 'magicians' all the time, which goes wrong and almost blinds the sound woman, he feels guilty and tells a story about his dead master berating him for breaking the rules of secrecy.
Therefore, the persons filming or writing the script seems to believe in qi. So this is very similar to people feeling the love of Jesus. And is a support of why gods are supposed to be invisible. His Master visitied him at night to remind him that the secrets of his sect should be kept secret. That is what invisible means. To keep god or Qi out of sight so nobody see the King is naked.


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## DPAK (Apr 17, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> DPAK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would enjoy to look st the videos to make some sort of statement, but my computer has dial-up.

But I'll choose to believe in souls and such until I'm proven beyond a shadow of a doubt wrong. I've seen and heard too much strange stuff to not believe in the existence of God and, consequently, souls.


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

DPAK said:
			
		

> I would enjoy to look st the videos to make some sort of statement, but my computer has dial-up.
> 
> But I'll choose to believe in souls and such until I'm proven beyond a shadow of a doubt wrong. I've seen and heard too much strange stuff to not believe in the existence of God and, consequently, souls.



Also, you don't want to use your heart for thinking. The ancient believed that emotions was located in the heart. The reason was that when you became emotional you could sense your heart pounding due to the increase of adrenalin in your bloodstream. Today we know that the heart is a muscle. It is an important muscle and without it you cannot live very long unless you have some machine that can pump blood into your body and essentially function as an artificial heart. However, the center of emotions is in your brain and absolutely NOT in your heart. Do you believe that those people who get their heart replaced by a donor's heart changes their emotional life in accordance with the donor?

Also, soul is something that doesn't appear to exist. In fact, the more we question about it, the more absurd does the idea of soul appear to be. For example, your soul is supposed to live forever. So you die and your body rot but your soul lives on. Does your soul remember things from your earthly life? Why should it? If it doesn't in what sense is that soul "you"? What about people who has had major personality change due to brain damage. Is it their undamaged brain's personality that lives on in that afterlife or is it the damaged brain's personality? Which one of them is really that person? What about people with multiple personality disorder? Do they have multiple souls in their body? Do they all go to an afterlife?


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

"The soul, according to many religious and philosophical traditions, is a self-aware ethereal substance unique to a particular living being. In these traditions the soul is thought to incorporate the inner essence of each living being, and to be the true basis for sentience. It is believed in many cultures and religions that the soul is the unification of ones sense of identity. In distinction to spirit which may or may not be eternal, souls are usually (but not always as explained below) considered to be immortal and to exist before their incarnation in flesh."

Personality is genetic. Multiple personality disorder is just that - disorder. It does not make someone more than one person. There are different beliefs about whether or not a soul carries any memories from it's past life - my personal belief is that yes, they can. (For the record, no matter what long, probably stupid and uninformed, tanget you go on - I believe what I believe. No idiotic teenager is going to change my mind. So don't bother, it'd make us all feel better.)


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## Merilon (Apr 17, 2007)

lol, sorry about responding so late :x I have been busy lately :?



			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> It can be different for different people...for me? It involves praying, meditating, and etc. to find the animal that is your totem - whether you have an animal you're wondering about, influences it to...



Sounds interesting; I have always gotten into the various spirit and meditation stuff.



			
				Blood Raven said:
			
		

> For me my animals found me, in a dream. What do you think of Therians or Otherkin that have more then one animal spiritually?



I have heard of Therians and Otherkin, but have never really knew what they were :x Even though I want one, I don't really have a fursona, and so far, Therian/Otherkin seems like a deeper level of having a fursona, so I wouldn't be able to get into it yet.



			
				Pikachu said:
			
		

> FUCK SCIENCE !



I like science :cry:


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> "Wikipedia"
> 
> Personality is genetic. Multiple personality disorder is just that - disorder. It does not make someone more than one person. There are different beliefs about whether or not a soul carries any memories from it's past life - my personal belief is that yes, they can. (For the record, no matter what long, probably stupid and uninformed, tanget you go on - I believe what I believe. No idiotic teenager is going to change my mind. So don't bother, it'd make us all feel better.)


Can you show that it is something more than just a thing you imagine? Perhaps it is both a thing imagined and a feeling about the thing imagined that makes you feel that you must have a soul?





			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> There are different beliefs about whether or not a soul carries any memories from it's past life - my personal belief is that yes, they can.


You may be channeling the mighty Klotor, a 7000 year old Atlantan monk through your body.





			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> (For the record, no matter what long, probably stupid and uninformed, tanget you go on - I believe what I believe.


If you have some basis for your beliefs, why don't you present them in a rational, cogent fashion? If you come here not wishing to debate, then post to your hearts content on your own blog. Anything else is just preaching.





			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> No idiotic teenager is going to change my mind. So don't bother, it'd make us all feel better.)


I'm not a teen. If you're not even open to being convinced otherwise, or you merely wish to pontificate, the exit here is only a click away.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therianthropy Here's the Wikipedia entry, and it has some good sites down at the bottom.


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therianthropy Here's the Wikipedia entry, and it has some good sites down at the bottom.



The soul, according to Foxy, is a concept arising from misunderstanding the sense of self that human brains construct. This sense of self is not eternal, did not exist before birth, and will not exist after death. Individual senses of self have genetic and external environmental inputs, as well as inputs from personal contemplation. There are lots of feedback effects involved, though the only feedback affecting the genetic input could only be a hypothetical input on how genes kick into brain development, rather than into changing ones genes - the Lamarckian fallacy.

Ok, but what makes you think a soul is more than just something you imagine and why is your feeling about the thing you imagine a reason to believe it exists outside your imagination?

The soul is a primitive misunderstanding of the conscious mind. The spirit is an equally primitive misunderstanding of respiration. Since you are not a primitive person and have all the advances in knowledge that science has obtained in the past few hundred years available to you why become involved in such foolishness?


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> I'm not a teen. If you're not even open to being convinced otherwise, or you merely wish to pontificate, the exit here is only a click away.




So you're just immature. Gotcha. For the record - this is my thread. It wasn't made to debate. It isn't in Rants and Raves, if you didn't notice. There was no reason for you to come harass us - and you have no right to tell me to leave my own thread, when you're the one who just came in to troll. In fact, from the first post:


			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> *note this is not in Rants and Rave; please, contain any flaming stupidity.



Looks like you just can't control yourself.

As for why I won't debate with you? Just look at the image in my signature.


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## foxy (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> As for why I won't debate with you? Just look at the image in my signature.


According to LoboRoo,  Ignorance is strength.


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## Rilvor (Apr 17, 2007)

Foxy, seriously, rather than try to crush what other people think by shoving your e-peen in their faces, perhaps you should look into yourself and wonder why you feel the need to insert  debate and tldr posts into every thread you possibly can >_> Most of them off-topic too....

(yes my post is off-topic as well, oh noes)


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks, Spirit. I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought she was harassing...most threads weren't made for debate, and yet Foxy always shows her ass any chance she/he/it gets. Also, apparently not even smart enough to see when everyone thinks she/he/it is being a complete idiot and should leave.


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## Option7 (Apr 17, 2007)

Hey, I have a small question on this.

Did you do some sort of heavy soul searching to discover this, or did you just wake up one day and think, huh, I must be a <insert animal>?

Also, did it feel like some kind of ultimate life changing experience or was it just a kind of mild enlightenment?


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Well, I've felt it all my life. It's not something that just appeared - I never remember not feeling that animalistic part of me. It took a long time to discover what animal I was - but I've always known that I was different, more animalistic. Even as a child I felt it. After acknowledging that...years ago, before I even knew there was a word for it...I started trying to figure out what animal I was.

I think even before I told myself, I knew there was something different about me. So...when I discovered others, it was kind of shocking - but in a way, I had known I couldn't be the only one. 

About what animal I am...I think I'm still soul searching. I used to think I was a dog, and I met someone who saw a panda in me - but I'm always searching within myself, honestly. Part of me still feels more closely connected to domestic dogs (not wolves) than anything, but then I'll always wonder about what the druid said about pandas.


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## Option7 (Apr 17, 2007)

Ok, but how did you go about that?

I don't really believe in all of this, but I'm interested to find out about it, that's why all the questions ^^


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

How did I go about what? Acknowledging the animal in me, or finding my animal?

I don't really remember when I finally figured it out - it wasn't like a big deal it just...was. It's was like "Ok, so this is what I am. Ok." I'm a pagan, so when I began learning more about that when I was...12? 13? and about reincarnation, I think that was when it made sense. It explained the feelings, and the memories I had where I wasn't - human. I didn't discover others until I came to FurAffinity and I think, either Silver or Rhainor was the first otherkin I met and it was like "That's me. There's a name for what I am? There are others?"


----------



## Silverdragon00 (Apr 17, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> LoboRoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Foxy, why the hell are you still trying to get people to stop believing what they believe? Is the belief harming you in some way?  I seriously doubt what people believe is causing you harm or injury, and if it is, I want to see a doctor's note, otherwise I call your bullshitting.

Some people don't need a scientific explanation for everything. And that doesn't mean that makes them stupid, in biology or any class. I don't see anywhere where someone is pushing their beliefs on you or anyone else. So quit trying to fucking "inform" people they are wrong. People have a right to believe whatever the hell they want, NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DEAL WITH IT.


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## Rilvor (Apr 17, 2007)

oO;

*runs away from angry dragon*


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## Pikachu (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> How did I go about what? Acknowledging the animal in me, or finding my animal?



I have a question and please dont get upset because im confused with this therianthropy religion of you.


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## Pikachu (Apr 17, 2007)

I understand art makes people happy but not is a spiritual way.





> I had where I wasn't - human.


So you existed in another form ? Do you remember everything before you became human ?

Did you saw the pharaoh  or cleopatra ? :shock:


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## dracoicebane (Apr 17, 2007)

I'll be brutally honest. The following words and topics burn my ass:


Furry (noun)
Kemono
Therian
Otherkin
Hume
I WUZ REBORN AS A HUMAN
I AM JUST WEARING A HUMAN SUIT
ONE DAY I WILL BE AN ANGEL FAIRY PRINCESS WHO IS ALSO A {animal}

Although I roleplay the ever-so-original dragon character with the ever-so-original Draco name, I don't consider myself a furry / similar term or very much like one.

Maybe I used to be something else and maybe I didn't. I'd sure like to hope, because being a dragon would be so badass, but I won't be stating any of this as a fact and I'd not care to use it in anything serious.

Besides that, I don't / didn't have a set physical form anyway and I just turned into random crap on the spur of the moment.

(And where I come from, dragons *are not* lizards, and *do not* breathe fire)


----------



## dracoicebane (Apr 17, 2007)

Oh, and Foxy's idea on sense of self is bloody ridiculous.

I was going to type a big speech in reply -- but I see that we are already in the process of replying to each other with lengthy, sometimes well founded but always futile arguments.

You be you, I be me.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Silver dear, I love you sometimes. xD

@Pikachu: I'm trying to decide whether you're serious or not. I'm not one of those people "I was Alexander the Great/Cleopatra/Caesar blah blah blah" No, I do not remember everything from before. I have bits of memory that just don't belong to this body - I remember even asking my parents as a child "what I used to be" because even then I had these memories.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Silver dear, I love you sometimes. xD
> 
> @Pikachu: I'm trying to decide whether you're serious or not. I'm not one of those people "I was Alexander the Great/Cleopatra/Caesar blah blah blah" No, I do not remember everything from before. I have bits of memory that just don't belong to this body - I remember even asking my parents as a child "what I used to be" because even then I had these memories.



Wow, thats really cool. Every time I read/hear something like that it makes me think maybe I'm not Otherkin, then I read something that says you dont nessisarily *have* to have these past memories...I'm kinda jealouse of that actually...i wish there was an easy way to figure this whole Otherkin thing out


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Yeah, I don't actually think they're very common, especially not memories where you aren't human. It's not like there's a list of requirements to be otherkin or therian...it's personal.  So I wouldn't worry if you don't have any past life memories.


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## Pikachu (Apr 17, 2007)

> I have bits of memory that just don't belong to this body.


But do you love yourself ?

I think being human is greater then being an insect, a worm, a fish, a chimp, a chicken or a whatever savage mammal.

Can you tell us your flash back ? Did you meet the dinosaurs ?

Sorry my english is bad.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Pikachu said:
			
		

> Did you meet the dinosaurs ?



When you say stuff like that it's hard to tell if you're serious...*skeptical* 

Do I love myself? I don't know. But that's more other issues than it is this. I'm not one of those people that say I am an animal. I know I'm human - I just don't think my soul is. So, I have hair, not fur. Hands, not paws. Etc. I'm human. Do I think it's better? I don't know that either. Animals don't murder, pollute, lie, cheat....and their lives are much simpler. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have just a simple life for once, ya know? 


Anyways, the memories. I can't see myself, obviously (I wish I could somehow, I wouldn't be wondering about what animal I am...wolf, dog, panda, kangaroo, what?) but it was in a forest. I was hunting (I've never hunted in this life), and my eyesight, my smells, were different. It wasn't a human memory. I wouldn't say black and white kind of...brownish, and grey. (Sepia?) I was closer to the ground, and on four legs.  Smells were stronger, but like I said I was hunting so...I was tracking a scent, you know? I don't know if it was blood or just the scent of the animal. It _was_ very coppery, but a lot of time that adrenaline smell can have a coppery tint...or it could have been blood...

I guess this would make it more like I'm a wolf or a dog, but goddess only knows...it could even be some sort of large cat (though I don't feel any connection to them, not like I do to canines)...


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## Silverdragon00 (Apr 17, 2007)

dracoicebane said:
			
		

> I'll be brutally honest. The following words and topics burn my ass:
> 
> 
> Furry (noun)
> ...




See, this I do not have a problem with. I take no offense when people say, :Well, I don't believe in so-and-so." It's when people start criticizing my or other's beliefs I get pissed off.

Yes, I know it's off-topic, but I really needed to make myself a bit clearer on my stand, IMO


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## dracoicebane (Apr 17, 2007)

That memory? That's a fragment of a dream. They usually are completely forgotten sans small bits and pieces -- rarely, they may be retained in great clarity

It is also not uncommon for a person to be tricked into thinking said dream is reality during it


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Look, you've said you disagree. If you don't have anything else constructive to say, you can leave.


I've had that memory as long as I can remember. Since I was a VERY small child. It was not a dream, or a movie, or any other bull you can come up with. Please do not tell me what to believe.


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## Surgat (Apr 17, 2007)

*FYI*



			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Pikachu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a better explanation available than reincarnation/animal-spirits or whatever:
http://www.livescience.com/othernews/070406_past_lives.html


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Will people *please* stop telling me what I should and shouldn't believe. I have a right to have my beliefs and you have a right to yours. That's an interesting little factoid or whatever, but I know what I feel. I don't care if you don't understand it, but I do.


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## Pikachu (Apr 17, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Will people *please* stop telling me what I should and shouldn't believe. I have a right to have my beliefs and you have a right to yours. That's an interesting little factoid or whatever, but I know what I feel. I don't care if you don't understand it, but I do.



But it's science


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Pikachu said:
			
		

> But it's science



Oh good lord honey, don't believe anything people say on the internet. It's likely to be bullshit. The memory (that's what it was, and no matter how much bullshit you spew out, I'm going to call it that) is not the only reason I'm therian. There's more to it than I could ever explain.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm just going to repet something I just posted in the "do you beelive in spirits" thread a minute ago: On my first day of my University level Biology class my Professer, yes _Professor_ a woman who went thought a great deal of school to her her PhD in _Biology_ none the less, told us she is a devote Christian. Science dosn't always trump religion, nor religion trump science, they can go hand in hand. So just let us beleive what we wish to beleive, and we'll let you not-beleive in whatever you don't wish to beleive in.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 17, 2007)

Exactly. Having spiritual or religious beliefs do not mean you forsake science. Like I said, I'm studying biology. I'm therian and pagan. Do they contradict? No. Science does not have an explanation for everything and many explanations are NOT completely correct and never applicable for every situation.

Edit: Ok, just now - my good lifelong friend wanted to talk to me so we took a walk, and the first thing she did was apologize for the bad experiences I've had with christians in the past, and ask if there was anything I wanted her to pray about. (Cue: Lobo crying like a baby) Do I believe the same way she does? No. But I was very grateful that she would pray for me. I didn't tell her she was wrong because she didn't believe like I did, or try and disprove her beliefs. I just accept her the way she is, and like I said, I was very grateful that she would pray for me.


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## DPAK (Apr 18, 2007)

foxy abridged said:
			
		

> Heart blah blah blah think blah muscle blah transplant blah blah?
> 
> Souls blah blah blah personality blah blah blah blarghity blargh blargh?



*For one thing, hearts were never mentioned. At all. So why, other than to have another tangent to go off on, bring them up?
*Lots of things don't appear to exist. Several examples include (and are not limited too): Time, our very existence, emotions (and boy to those seem absurd!), money, black holes, evolution (on a broad scale, not tiny adaptions), etc etc etc. And again I say that each person will have their OWN OPINION on the existence of souls and how they function based on their own experiences in this life and how they were raised. So drop it.



			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> (For the record, no matter what long, probably stupid and uninformed, tanget you go on - I believe what I believe. No idiotic teenager is going to change my mind. So don't bother, it'd make us all feel better.)



Amen to that.



			
				foxy said:
			
		

> Another _argument from ignorance_. If you have some basis for your beliefs, why don't you present them in a rational, cogent fashion? If you come here not wishing to debate, then post to your hearts content on your own blog. Anything else is just preaching.



...............*withholds comment*



			
				foxy said:
			
		

> The soul is a primitive misunderstanding of the conscious mind. The spirit is an equally primitive misunderstanding of respiration. Since you are not a primitive person and have all the advances in knowledge that science has obtained in the past few hundred years available to you why become involved in such foolishness?



Why do you anti-religious types refuse to believe that some things are simply unexplainable?



			
				foxy said:
			
		

> According to LoboRoo,  Ignorance is strength.



Absolutely uncalled for. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and having religious beliefs does not make one "ignorant".  Quit trying to cause trouble.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

You'd think she'd notice that so far, no one has ever agreed with her, and no one likes her. It'd be in her best interest to just shut up once in awhile, you know? But she can't resist spewing crap onto every thread. There's a difference between believing something, and telling others that *everyone* has to believe it.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> You'd think she'd notice that so far, no one has ever agreed with her, and no one likes her. It'd be in her best interest to just shut up once in awhile, you know? But she can't resist spewing crap onto every thread. There's a difference between believing something, and telling others that *everyone* has to believe it.



Seems to be her favorite passtime, that, and incorectly reading other peoples posts then quoting them with an absurd irrelevant tangent attached


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

I have the strongest urge to make a Rant and Rave for everyone to talk about her, but I'm afraid the admins would consider that singling her out too much. (Not that she doesn't deserve it.) 

*cough*tomakethisontopic*cough*

I'm leaning further from panda and more towards wolf. *sigh* To be honest, I think I didn't want to be a wolf or a dog because - I didn't want to be so _common_. I love canines, they're my favorite animals...but just like in the furry fandom, there are more wolves than anything. I hate being common...


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## Icarus (Apr 18, 2007)

*sighs*
Why does this kind of stuff always come up when people talk about a soul or a spirit or even a deity?
This topic was origionally created so that others could express an idea or belief about their *own* therianthrope experiances.  And what do you know?  Four-ish posts later we get a, "Souls don't exist, we are just animals who think better.  You should feel really retarded for even thinking differently." - Poster.  And now, it's turned into a debate weather spirts/souls exist.  Seriously, why can't one express his own ideas *WITHOUT* the intention of putting one down?  Does it make the individual feel better at all thinking, "Man, I just totally destroyed that person on the inside now...I feel so much better  ."  Or shall we refer to one of my previous posts where I got more of a, "I don't know, when I tell the truth, I don't much feel anything." types of things.  And I'll say it again, *why do you even post these things knowing it could be considered trolling or being rude?*  If someone wants to believe that when they die, their Immortal souls will leave their body, join the life force of Terra and then be born again in another body.  Then why can't we just nod our heads and walk away without trying to destroy a belief?!  Jesus!    The OP didn't want debate then all of a sudden Debate we begot.  And for what?  What possible gain comes from destroying a belief or idea?  How the fuck can that even make you feel better?  Ok, does that not _reach_ you?  How about this, "Does Not Compute."

Finding others with same interests != Debate
End of Story.


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> I have the strongest urge to make a Rant and Rave for everyone to talk about her, but I'm afraid the admins would consider that singling her out too much. (Not that she doesn't deserve it.)
> 
> *cough*tomakethisontopic*cough*
> 
> I'm leaning further from panda and more towards wolf. *sigh* To be honest, I think I didn't want to be a wolf or a dog because - I didn't want to be so _common_. I love canines, they're my favorite animals...but just like in the furry fandom, there are more wolves than anything. I hate being common...



Aww *hugs* I'm sure whatever you truly wind up being with in the end will be wonderful, no matter what. Maybe your wolfish side is just feeling more...with a pack and wants to be expressed


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

It's actually amusing, that my mate is a cat. Dog and cat love ftw. xD 

I think, just like with everything else in my life, I just need some time to accept who I am. People have always told me I discovered things about myself young - came out when I was 13, began to transition to a male persona when I first came to college, and have always been very strong in what I believe. I think my problem is that I accept some things well and then I work out the specifics, when I should work it all out beforehand...oh well. xD I've survived this far, ne?


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## foxy (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Well, since we seem to be on this track; who here is a therian or otherkin?


Am converted.


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## Icarus (Apr 18, 2007)

Alright, now with the computer gone I can finally express myself in a free way.
*inhales*
smells good ^.=.^
My draconic speices was bipedal.
yup.
We still had wings and used them, but our tails were growing smaller.  (no need for balance)
We didn't breathe fire,
Our small cities were nomadic, except the bigger ones.  (except by the time I remember, It was mostly like a "city-state." )
And our intelligence was that of an equivelance of primitive man.  
don't know time periods.
Don't know plane or planet of origin.

Ther ya go Lobo, my specie info.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> LoboRoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not really...that kind of thing.  We weren't trying to change your beliefs. We just wanted you to shut up. (And again, converting to therian or otherkin is like saying you're converting to being African-American. You have to be *born* that way.)


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 18, 2007)

Icarus said:
			
		

> Alright, now with the computer gone I can finally express myself in a free way.
> *inhales*
> smells good ^.=.^
> My draconic speices was bipedal.
> ...




Okay thats just freaky, I had a dream the other night where I was a species of dragon almost exactly similar to that of wich you just described.  We seemed to be on Noah's arc (weirdly enough) but Noah had fucked up and brought four different species onto the ship because 2 of each looked simmilar.... I don't know if it was a lost memory or a dream conjured by my confusion...


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## Jelly (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> foxy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I promise, I won't be another foxy in your ointment...but there's something I can't help asking about that. Does your animal remain constant throughout your life, or does it ever change? Also, do you feel the animal is regional...because, I dunno...well...admittedly after attending a very...uh, very frightening lecture about wolf spirituality, it seemed that all the therians failed to note that the animals they experienced were pre-known to them. I mean, a lot of people know what wolves are...and have you ever met a therian that happens to be an animal they have no name for, but later find out that that animal is in fact a real thing? Such as...uh, dunno...a North American therian linked (or...I-I don't know what the proper term is here) with say: a fossa (which aren't in America, and aren't exactly up there with elephants and other non-native species that have huge cultural histories and myths)? I don't know, but I wouldn't mind your thoughts on the whole thing.

(PS: I swear I'm not trying to start anything, but I'm always curious about various spiritual beliefs.)


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## Icarus (Apr 18, 2007)

Orlith Nemeth said:
			
		

> Icarus said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



heh, the only problem is that we are a green color.  (males have a yellow breast/belly, females have a complete green change)  We are only bronze/yellow/goldenrod color when we are little...
heh...sorry if I got your hopes up...


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

My personal belief is that it doesn't change - to me, if you believe your soul is an animal, and you're just a human in this life...to change species seems a little off kilter. I mean, how did you change your soul? Unless you consider the possibility that you have many past lives and different animals...that's the only explanation I can think of for your theriotype changing or being a hybrid, honestly. I still haven't discovered without a shadow of a doubt in my mind what I am.

As for your other question - all I can say is I honestly don't know. I mean, I wouldn't think that it would be regional, but if your theriotype is an animal you don't have a name for, you're likely to find a similar animal or one you like and say that is who you are. I've met a lot of people who, like me, know they're therian but for the life of them can't figure out what - so maybe that's what's happening, is they just don't know of what animal that they are. I'd imagine that you'd either choose an animal you'd heard of, or continue to be confused about what you are. 

But most therians, while they would like to know their theriotype, are pretty confident with who they are even if they don't know. It's not really required that you know exactly what you are, or anything like that - so a lot of people are still figuring it out, and a lot refuse to label themselves at all with an animal.


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## Icarus (Apr 18, 2007)

What if you are more than one animal?
Some people say that they are moar than one.
But does that mean that they don't interchange animals from time to time and they just have two separate ones?


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

I've met a lot of people who say they're more than one, or hybrids. Like I said...the only thing I can think of is that they had multiple past lives, with multiple animals. I don't have any personal experience with that - I'm pretty sure that I'm only one animal, and have a fairly young soul. That's just my opinion, though. To really be sure, it'd probably best best to ask someone with multiple theriotypes, if you can find one. There are some here, if you're interested - www.werelist.com


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 18, 2007)

Icarus said:
			
		

> Orlith Nemeth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not at all, if anything that brings my hopes up slightly higher, as the dragon I always "conjure" (I'll say that for now as I am still unsure) has always been a greeny gold colour, though the dragons in my dream were a shimmering green to pink colour (it kind of rippled) But in my dream there were atleast 4 different races, so again, its hard to say


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## Icarus (Apr 18, 2007)

Ok, 
now, I couldn't help but look at your siggy and see that you are a cuddley dragoness, can I have a goodnight cuddle?
^.=.^


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## Orlith Nemeth (Apr 18, 2007)

^.=.^ sure *cuddles Icarus goodnight* sweet dreams!


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> I've had that memory as long as I can remember. Since I was a VERY small child.



This is even less credible.

I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm telling you what not to.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

Awww, how kyoot.

Now - I have a question for those who know me here, or have seen the way I act, etc. What animal do you think I act like? (Part of me is actually hoping to be a mexican wolf - a lobo! Though to know _that_ specific isn't likely.)



			
				dracoicebane said:
			
		

> I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm telling you what not to.



Please, we just got rid of one troll who couldn't accept that not everyone believed what she did. Don't turn into a foxy. You don't even have an avatar to turn into a nifty banner.


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## Pikachu (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> "The soul, according to many religious and philosophical traditions, is a self-aware ethereal substance unique to a particular living being. In these traditions the soul is thought to incorporate the inner essence of each living being, and to be the true basis for sentience.


I dont understand.


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Please, we just got rid of one troll who couldn't accept that not everyone believed what she did. Don't turn into a foxy. You don't even have an avatar to turn into a nifty banner.


I'm not turning into foxy because I actually AM using reason. I'm not trying to tell you that what you are saying HAS to be wrong -- I'm trying to tell you that it isn't necessarily right.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

*shrugs* I don't care what you believe about me, and whether you think it's totally crazy or not. I know what I feel and what I believe. And to be honest? No, you're not going to change that.


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> *shrugs* I don't care what you believe about me, and whether you think it's totally crazy or not. I know what I feel and what I believe. And to be honest? No, you're not going to change that.



You sound exactly like someone I know.

That person is me.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

So...is this a good thing?


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## foxy (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> "The soul, according to many religious and philosophical traditions, is a self-aware ethereal substance unique to a particular living being. In these traditions the soul is thought to incorporate the inner essence of each living being, and to be the true basis for sentience.


I agree with you LoboRoo.

That reminds me of momentum gnomes. We think momentum (p) equals mass (m) times speed (v) (p=mv), but it actually equals half of that (p=1/2mv)! The reason we always measure it as just mass times speed is that momentum gnomes magically double the power! Note that momentum gnomes are ethereal and undetectable and all that stuff. 

And for the same reason, our brains just can't be all that's behind sentience, we need to invent some ethereal, undetectable substance to explain it instead! Why it all makes perfect sense when you look at it that way.


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

....I wasn't telling you to leave. Notice: Foxy.


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

I have not read your post because I am backing down after receiving this PM from foxy:



> You can't use logic against these people.



Having foxy on my side does not rest well with me and I must drop from the current argument (particularly since I think I got reported for trolling)

EDIT: ... I have managed to confuse myself

oop!

but still, I don't feel like entering such a chaotic fray!


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

No, I didn't report you, I reported foxy. You were asking questions - she is harassing. From the TOS, she is in violation of:
Fur Affinity does not tolerate bigotry and will remove and take action against Users leaving remarks found to be crude and vulgar. Crude and vulgar is defined as, but not limited to: racist slurs, anti-Semitic insults and/or other derogatory remarks regarding philosophies, religion, sexuality, race, gender or association.


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> No, I didn't report you, I reported foxy. You were asking questions - she is harassing. From the TOS, she is in violation of:
> Fur Affinity does not tolerate bigotry and will remove and take action against Users leaving remarks found to be crude and vulgar. Crude and vulgar is defined as, but not limited to: racist slurs, anti-Semitic insults and/or other derogatory remarks regarding philosophies, religion, sexuality, race, gender or association.


This is much better than the impression I was getting LD

(I am somewhat used to being warned for arguments on other boards you see)


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

A few questions does not a troll make.  She has been harassing many people on many threads due to their religious beliefs, that's why I finally reported her.


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> A few questions does not a troll make.  She has been harassing many people on many threads due to their religious beliefs, that's why I finally reported her.



Scientology is grand!


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## foxy (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> She has been *harassing* many people on many threads due to their religious beliefs, that's why I finally reported her.


Where ? I was gentle.

Being a skeptic a bad thing ?


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## Lobo Roo (Apr 18, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> LoboRoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Read your own posts, then.


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## foxy (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Read your own posts, then.



Not a single _ad hominem_.


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## Purplecat (Apr 18, 2007)

Pikachu said:
			
		

> LoboRoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

Basically self-awareness. Souls is a unproven thing according to science, although they aren't proven wrong either to be fair.

And Science isn't about labelling religions wrong, it's about finding out the truth through some basic methods. Science never tries to label anything as the absolute truth though, as sometimes things might work differently than they appear to be. It's a ever-changing business. I am a supporter of theory of the evolution, but only because it's one of the more sane theories I heard (I think the link between humans and apes is clear as day...). Even if I find most religions rather silly or irrational, I do believe in freedom of religions is a necessarily in society and therefore let people worship and believe whatever they want.


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## foxy (Apr 18, 2007)

LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Everyone hates you, and thinks you're a complete idiot. Do yourself and us a favor, and get the fuck off these forums.



_Ad hominem_.



			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> I hate to break your heart (actually, no, I'm laughing my ass off at your stupidity) but *you* said that idiotic bit about the car.



_Ad hominem_



			
				LoboRoo said:
			
		

> Oh dear lord don't ask her to explain anything. @_@ She doesn't shut up even when we tell her she shouldn't say anything; imagine when she thinks we're actually asking for her idiotic opinion.



_Ad hominem_

...ect


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## Lougara (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm a wolf therian- my true therian side is unrevealed to me, but I know she's a wolf. After visiting three medicine women/men in three different Native american reservations, all three told me I had the spirit of a strong alpha female within me, and that she was so strong within me that it was a wonder my shadow didn't take that of a wolf's.

I have no idea what she looks like, but I do meditations with her, and connect with her when I can.

My fursonas are just ways to express myself without putting her in the open- as she has expressed that she doesn't want to be known by anyone but me.


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## Lougara (Apr 18, 2007)

foxy said:
			
		

> Also,
> 
> Plants are also animate. They move their heads towards the sun and their petals close at night and open in the morning. They have complex cellular biological activities much like ours â€“ would a plant have a soul ? What you are trying to define is life. Is there a clear sharp boundary between life and non-life? Apparently not. We can look to many chemical reactions that appear passive and others quite active and then we can examine biology which appears no more than a more complex set of chemical reactions. Where does the line fall between life and non-life? It doesnâ€™t exist; it is just a matter of degree. Does a soul then simply appear as chemical reactions become more complex ? Or is the term used because of past ignorance of underlying molecular activities ? There is much evidence that brain has something to do with it. Thinking appear to occur in the brain. There are living things without brain who do not show sign of thinking - flowers for example. There are non-living things with brain-like things in them who do show sign of behavior similar to thinking - computers. So I would put my bet on brains is the reason why we can think and things without brains can not.
> 
> ...




where in this thread did Lobo or ANYONE ELSE, for that matter, ask for education? this is a discussion on spirituality, something I know you despise, but just STFU already- don't you ever understand when you're not wanted?

Are you THAT desperate for attention?

I am SO tempted to take your idiocy and make an ED article about you.

And believe me, I'll do it. I was one of the ones that put Kurt's article under lockdown.


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## Purplecat (Apr 18, 2007)

"I'm going to write a bad wiki article about you" is probably one of the more silly threats I seen lately I have to admit. I probably wouldn't mind winding up there myself, I just would add additional stuff about myself.

Assuming you mean Encyclopedia dramatica with ED.


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## dracoicebane (Apr 18, 2007)

Stop the madness or I'll draw violent pictures!!!


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## Icarus (Apr 18, 2007)

dracoicebane said:
			
		

> I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm telling you what not to.



Get...the...[size=xx-large]*FUDGE*[/size] off my internet.

Ooooh, you think your opinion is going to matter to me now you stupid piece of trash?  [size=xx-large]FUDGE NO.[/size]

People that want everyone to believe the same thing that they believe should be hit by a slab of fish.  The stench will never get out of your clothes!!!


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Apr 18, 2007)

Icarus, keep your language clean.


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