# Tablets and stuff



## Aaros (Jan 5, 2011)

hi everyone.
For the longest time I've been making digital art with a mouse, and while that's been fine for just getting the basics down, I feel like I need to move forward by adding more detail and clarity in my drawings and getting a tablet is the only way to do that in a time-efficient way.

So I've asked a bunch of people about tablets and I've gotten so many different opinions that I don't know what to think. One artist who I trust a lot because her work is amazing advised me to get an intuos 3, because the nubs for the pen never wear out and it's very durable, while other people say that the intuos 4 is the way to go because of its quality and pressure levels and all that, while I've heard a lot of artists with cheaper tablet brands like Graphire that are totally satisfied with their tablets...so I don't know what to think. I'm wondering what y'all think:
a) are there significant quality differences between different brands and different tablets that make one preferable over the other? Is an intuos 3 or intuos 4 better, or are the cheaper brands good enough? b) am I likely to run into software problems with the different tablets? Does the pressure sensitivity work in programs like the one I'm using, Gimp? are there pitfalls I should be aware of? c) Are used tablets good enough, or do tablets wear out enough to make a fresh new one worth the investment?

input would be appreciated, thanks.


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## lostfoxeh (Jan 6, 2011)

I hear good things about the bamboo. It really depends on how you make your digital art. If you are a cell shader then the cheap ones will be what you want. If you do a lot of blending and use programs that allow use of the tilt feature, then get a intuos. In other words, if you do mostly cartoon characters get the cheaper ones, if you are on the realism side then get the more expensive ones, or so I have heard. I personally have a intuos2 and it seams to be able to do whatever I could want. I can't show examples as I stick to traditional mostly.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

lostfoxeh said:


> I hear good things about the bamboo. It really depends on how you make your digital art. If you are a cell shader then the cheap ones will be what you want. If you do a lot of blending and use programs that allow use of the tilt feature, then get a intuos. In other words, if you do mostly cartoon characters get the cheaper ones, if you are on the realism side then get the more expensive ones, or so I have heard. I personally have a intuos2 and it seams to be able to do whatever I could want. I can't show examples as I stick to traditional mostly.


 I like realism, I guess that would put me in the expensive camp. 
I'm wishing there were some cheap off-brand that worked really well so I don't have to spend $350 on an Intuos, but I've heard consistently that all the cheap tablets are super low quality.
I know someone who has a bamboo and he thinks it wouldn't be good enough for me, so I guess I'll have to lean on the side of more expensive.


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## Taralack (Jan 6, 2011)

As far as brands go, no one can compare to Wacom in terms of range, variety and quality. 
As long as you install the tablet's driver, any art program should be able to pick up on the sensitivity. While we're on that subject, the Bamboo has a vastly lower pressure range compared to the Intuos. There's not much difference between the Intous 3 and 4 (having used both myself) it's just whether you will use the extra buttons on the 4 and if you can afford it as it's newer. 
I wouldn't recommend buying second hand, but it really depends on how much the original owner used it. A heavy user like myself will wear down the nibs of the pens and the surface of the tablet. So if you're looking at second hand ones, always ask for photos of the tablet. The Wacom site also sells refurbished ones, but I wouldn't know what quality they are in, I have always bought mine new. The site is really good, I ordered my Intuos 4 from there and it arrived the very next day. 

Considering your skill level, I think you would be better off getting a Bamboo first, and then upgrading to an Intuos once that breaks or once you have improved more. It also depends on how much you think you're going to be using it. I use my Intuos almost every day to do commissions, my comic, and uni work, so it's an essential part of my daily activity. It just varies from person to person. An expensive tablet like the Intuos is a very large investment, so unless you're going to be using it a lot, I wouldn't recommend getting one.

By the way, you might want to edit your pawprint link - just enter your FA username, no need to paste the whole URL.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Toraneko said:


> As far as brands go, no one can compare to Wacom in terms of range, variety and quality.
> As long as you install the tablet's driver, any art program should be able to pick up on the sensitivity. While we're on that subject, the Bamboo has a vastly lower pressure range compared to the Intuos. There's not much difference between the Intous 3 and 4 (having used both myself) it's just whether you will use the extra buttons on the 4 and if you can afford it as it's newer.
> I wouldn't recommend buying second hand, but it really depends on how much the original owner used it. A heavy user like myself will wear down the nibs of the pens and the surface of the tablet. So if you're looking at second hand ones, always ask for photos of the tablet. The Wacom site also sells refurbished ones, but I wouldn't know what quality they are in, I have always bought mine new. The site is really good, I ordered my Intuos 4 from there and it arrived the very next day.
> 
> Considering your skill level, I think you would be better off getting a Bamboo first, and then upgrading to an Intuos once that breaks or once you have improved more. It also depends on how much you think you're going to be using it. I use my Intuos almost every day to do commissions, my comic, and uni work, so it's an essential part of my daily activity. It just varies from person to person. An expensive tablet like the Intuos is a very large investment, so unless you're going to be using it a lot, I wouldn't recommend getting one.


Well, I would certainly be using it very often. I'm actually out of high school but not in college yet, so I have about 8 months with nothing to do before going to college, and I'm considering double-majoring in art and something else, so I'm trying to do tons and tons of art between now and then and make up my mind. Recently I've been spending something like six hours a day on art, so I've seen vast improvement in the past two months (I learned literally every technique I use for digital art in the last five weeks).
So of course my main concern is wear and tear. Do the bamboo tablets hold up well?

Also, the bamboo tablets are smaller than the Intuos. I'm worried there might not be enough room for me with them...is size likely to be a problem?


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## Taralack (Jan 6, 2011)

Since I'm in a good mood I took some pictures for you 






This is the surface of my tablet, you can see all the scratches and marks I've made over the past one and a half years of using it. 





My tablet in comparison to my keyboard and mouse. This is the medium Intuos 4. 

I haven't changed the nib at all since getting it, but there is a noticeable dent from where I use it.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Toraneko said:


> Since I'm in a good mood I took some pictures for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pics. 
I've heard from some people that the nibs wear out and you constantly have to replace them, and from others that they tend to not wear out, so I guess it depends on how hard you press. Since I tend to only press lightly, I think I'll be alright.

I guess since I keep hearing consistently that Wacom is better than everyone else, I'll have to lean toward the Intuos 4...sure is pricey though.


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## Taralack (Jan 6, 2011)

Aaromus said:


> I guess since I keep hearing consistently that Wacom is better than everyone else, I'll have to lean toward the Intuos 4...sure is pricey though.


 
As I said, there isn't much difference between Intuos 3 and 4. If you are able to get 3 and can't afford 4, by all means don't pass up on it.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Toraneko said:


> As I said, there isn't much difference between Intuos 3 and 4. If you are able to get 3 and can't afford 4, by all means don't pass up on it.


 Ok. The thing is just that I was worried about tablets wearing out over time and buying them secondhand might not be a good idea. Since they don't make Intuos 3 tablets anymore, I would have to buy them used...but maybe Craigslist is my friend here.


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## Zenia (Jan 6, 2011)

I am currently using a Graphire1 that I bought secondhand off of eBay for $100... 11 years ago. It is also the smallest size, and while I do miss the 12x12 I had a while back (the big one was even older and not compatible with Windows7) it is completely wonderful. The plastic cover sheet on mine isn't worn at all and I am a HEAVY user. I have also severely mistreated (not on purpose) this tablet and it still works as though it was brand new. The nibs do wear down... but I get at least 6mos to 1yr out of them before they are too lopsided for me to want to deal with.

You don't need a huge fancy brand new tablet to make nice art with. Personally, I recommend buying one of the lower end new Wacoms, or a cheap Wacom on eBay. Get your feel for it, practice a ton and if you want to upgrade, then go ahead and either re-sell the cheaper one or give it to someone as a gift!


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## lostfoxeh (Jan 6, 2011)

If cost is an issue, then go with what you can afford. I think you would like the extra sensitivity any of the intuos gives.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Zenia said:


> I am currently using a Graphire1 that I bought secondhand off of eBay for $100... 11 years ago. It is also the smallest size, and while I do miss the 12x12 I had a while back (the big one was even older and not compatible with Windows7) it is completely wonderful. The plastic cover sheet on mine isn't worn at all and I am a HEAVY user. I have also severely mistreated (not on purpose) this tablet and it still works as though it was brand new. The nibs do wear down... but I get at least 6mos to 1yr out of them before they are too lopsided for me to want to deal with.
> 
> You don't need a huge fancy brand new tablet to make nice art with. Personally, I recommend buying one of the lower end new Wacoms, or a cheap Wacom on eBay. Get your feel for it, practice a ton and if you want to upgrade, then go ahead and either re-sell the cheaper one or give it to someone as a gift!


Ok. So I guess something cheaper off eBay will work for me...I'm nervous about the drivers and compatibility with my windows 7, though.
I guess it is most logical to start out with the cheaper and smaller ones and move up. 
A quick search through craiglist in my area showed nothing much...so to ebay it is then.


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## Zenia (Jan 6, 2011)

If you want to know if something is compatible with Windows7, go to Wacom.com and to the drivers download section. You can choose the tablet model and the OS version and it will show you if there is a driver to download (which I recommend doing anyway, instead of installing the CD you get). If there is one to download, then the tablet can be used with Windows7. Even if there isn't it is still possible. For example, there is no driver for Windows7+Graphire1... but I downloaded a WindowsVista one and it works just fine.

As long as  you get a USB tablet, you should be fine. Wacom just won't make new drivers for the old tablets that connect to a serial port (like my old 12x12) so you can't use one of those with Windows7.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Well I'm a somewhat rash individual so I decided I might as well try and get a tablet as soon as possible. So...I made the snap decision to go ahead and order one off eBay. I randomly found an intuos 3 on eBay that had been neglected by the bidders and put in a bid for like $15, so it's super cheap. Probably will be outbid though.


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## Lobar (Jan 6, 2011)

Aaromus said:


> Well I'm a somewhat rash individual so I decided I might as well try and get a tablet as soon as possible. So...I made the snap decision to go ahead and order one off eBay. I randomly found an intuos 3 on eBay that had been neglected by the bidders and put in a bid for like $15, so it's super cheap. Probably will be outbid though.


 
$15 would be a retardedly good deal, you've almost certainly been outbid already.  Before you rebid though, consider... the MONOPRICE tablet.

Monoprice is actually best known for selling great cables for super-cheap, but they've always had lots of other computer and electronics accessories on the side for cheap too.  Which is actually how I found these, I was just shopping for cables and came across them tucked away under the Accessories subcategory.  The prices are stupidly affordable (8x6 for under $40?), so much so that I thought they might be too good to be true, but they were very highly rated by customer feedback, with lots of favorable comparisons to Wacoms.  The tech specs (resolution, pressure sensitivity, report rate) are also on par with the Bamboo line (the big one actually outperforms them).  So I took the risk and got one as a Christmas gift for an artist friend of mine, hoping it didn't suck.  It has since gotten the thumbs-up from her and I'm now in for one of my own.

There's still a few differences from the Wacoms.  Wacom has a patent on their wireless, batteryless pen, so the Monoprice pen takes a single AAA.  The pen also has to be stored without its tip touching anything or it will drain the battery (it comes with a special pen holder for this).  Instead of hot keys (some models have hot keys too), it has hot cells on the edge of the drawing surface that you pen-touch to activate.  Some of these have stupid functions (opening Excel, for example) but they can be reprogrammed.  There's also no tilt sensitivity, so the Intuos is still the best professional tablet.  But fuck the price on an Intuos, these are 1/10th the cost!


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, I haven't been outbid, and there's only 2 hours of bidding left. 8D
Apparently the seller must be some eBay business for selling used electronics, since they're also selling like 10 others as well and a bunch of other electronics. They're a really highly rated seller, though.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 6, 2011)

One thing to note, make sure you work on your traditional drawing skills. Digital sketching won't become magically better and in fact you'll find yourself frustrated with the transition. Those working with strong traditional foundations will have an easier time creating artwork with tablets, vs the other way around (Where you think a digital tablet will make it easier to work with traditional media).


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, yeah. But traditional art, mainly pencil and pen, has always been my strongest point, so I don't think that'll be an issue. 
So I just won a 4x5 inuos 3 for $15. I am pretty happy about this. Doesn't come with a pen, though, and the pens cost like $70. It'll be alright though...


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 6, 2011)

Erk, I should have clicked on your ebay link sooner because yeah I generally advise people not to buy without a pen, because the next complaint is the sticker shock of the price of the pen.

http://amzn.com/B0006698PG

64 dollars on Amazon if you're in the US free shipping - (no tax for most states).


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## Taralack (Jan 6, 2011)

Wow no wonder it was going for so cheap. Grats I guess...


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## Lobar (Jan 6, 2011)

Even if he buys a pen new, $89 is cheap for an Intuos...

5x4 is tiny though.  You may still want to eat the $15 and go the Monoprice route.


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## Aaros (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, I did know about the price of the pen beforehand.


Lobar said:


> Even if he buys a pen new, $89 is cheap for an Intuos...
> 
> 5x4 is tiny though.  You may still want to eat the $15 and go the Monoprice route.


 
I'll consider it...it's just, I'm not sure if I trust such something from such a cheap brand to last at all. I can't really wrap my head around the idea that it would be acceptable policy for the price. But I don't know, perhaps it's possible.


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## Lobar (Jan 7, 2011)

Aaromus said:


> Well, I did know about the price of the pen beforehand.
> 
> 
> I'll consider it...it's just, I'm not sure if I trust such something from such a cheap brand to last at all. I can't really wrap my head around the idea that it would be acceptable policy for the price. But I don't know, perhaps it's possible.


 
I had my doubts too, but between the Monoprice reputation for good stuff at dirt cheap prices (never buy a cable from a retail store again, holy crap) and literally a couple hundred glowing reviews, I took the chance on it.  I did give it a look over before giving it to my friend though, just to make sure it wasn't crap, and it seemed solid and durable enough, without being bulky.  I didn't see any reviews about premature deaths either.  Monoprice has always been great about returns and RMAs too, so if you do get a dud it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 7, 2011)

depends on the usage. I don't advise using a small tablet for long periods of time without taking breaks to make sure you don't mess up your hand with rsi.
However, the smallest intuos seems to be great for inking.


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## Sigilgoat (Jan 7, 2011)

I've got the Medium Bamboo FUN (OMG SO FUN) and it's done me quite well for about 3 years now. It's starting to...click out? I guess? and I have to unplug it and plug it back in, but it's got half the pressure sensitivity of a graphire for 100$ or so. 

The smaller ones never worked well for me, but I know some people that can use it with no problem.


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## Arshes Nei (Jan 7, 2011)

Don't forget to have mapping enabled when you receive the tablet.


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## Aaros (Jan 7, 2011)

Arshes Nei said:


> Don't forget to have mapping enabled when you receive the tablet.


 
What exactly does that mean? Is that a setting in the program?


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## Taralack (Jan 7, 2011)

Aaromus said:


> What exactly does that mean? Is that a setting in the program?


 
It's under tablet settings, yes. It just means you're setting the tablet's area to match the monitor.


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## Archir (Jan 11, 2011)

I work with alot of details and have a realistic style, but i work with the cheapest bamboo Sometimes i work with the Bamboo Fun and that works great. Sure the intuos is a bit better. But The bamboo's are good enough.


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## knibitz (Jan 18, 2011)

I had a 4X5 graphire 3 for several years before I finally beat it into the ground. I was just a middle school kid and I had it until I graduated high school. I never once had to replace a nib. I did replace the pen once after sitting on it and snapping it, but never a nib o_0
The cord on my graphire eventually crapped out after years of being wrapped around my tablet and stuffed in my backpack to go from place to place, so I upgraded to the small intuos 3 - 4X6 I believe.

I used both tablets pretty heavily and rarely had a problem with wrist issues or w/e. the most pain I would have is from holding the pen, but that's because I hold writing utensils awkward to begin with. I've also stood firmly behind small tablets being just as powerful. For the longest time I dealt with people whining that they couldn't draw all the details with such tiny tablets, but this is why programs allow you to zoom in. voila, no more problems with too tiny space.

I've worked with the monster size intuos who's drawing surface is the size of a sheet of paper, and for me, I didn't like it. I think i just trained myself to like my smaller surfaces. I just felt like I was swinging my whole arm around to navigate. But I guess this is where I show my amateur in me. I do realize that you're supposed to use your entire arm to draw ^^; I just don't :B

With my drawing hiatus I went into for years, my intuos spent a large amount of time stuffed in a box just rolling around with a bunch of other stuff, and it faired fine. It has several surface scratches, but it doesn't affect it's behavior at all. it's just a little depressing to look at 


On the bamboo, I know a few people who have the bamboo fun and absolutely love it. I played with a it a little bit and didn't like the feel of the drawing surface much, but I think that's all wacom tablets now(??)
The bamboo pen I've heard mixed reviews of, some complain it's too tiny, others say it's just fine.
I personally think it's obnoxiously tiny, but that's just me and to each their own 


Regardless, I don't think you can go wrong with any Wacom tablet, as long as it works!

 I hope your new intuos works great for you >3< welcome to the club! lol.


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## Lobar (Jan 18, 2011)

My Monoprice tablet came, and reinforced my opinion that they are pure awesome.  I recommend them for everyone's first tablet (did I mention that they are DIRT cheap?), and I think it will last until you're ready for a good-sized Intuos.


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## knibitz (Jan 18, 2011)

Lobar said:


> My Monoprice tablet came, and reinforced my opinion that they are pure awesome.  I recommend them for everyone's first tablet (did I mention that they are DIRT cheap?), and I think it will last until you're ready for a good-sized Intuos.


 
The only thing you're telling us is that it's cheap. 
I rarely hear raving reviews for non-wacom tablets. It might help if you give us proper information and a review on it rather than just bouncing around that it's cheap 
What makes it just as good? Hows the drawing surface? it's stability? sensitivity? tracking?

and I don't think there's a need to start cheap and go more expensive.
If you don't think you'll use it and you just want it to mess around with, then yes go cheap.

But if you're looking for something that you intend to use for a long time, that you want to withstand a lot, then you're going to want to go with a high quality tablet.

I'm not saying you need an intuos, but at least get the brand name that near has a monopoly over the market.


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## Lobar (Jan 18, 2011)

knibitz said:


> The only thing you're telling us is that it's cheap.
> I rarely hear raving reviews for non-wacom tablets. It might help if you give us proper information and a review on it rather than just bouncing around that it's cheap
> What makes it just as good? Hows the drawing surface? it's stability? sensitivity? tracking?
> 
> ...


 
It tracks very well with no jitters, and I get easy pixel precision on my 1920x1080 monitor.  The specified resolution of the tablet is 4000 lpi in the larger tablets, 2560 lpi in the smaller ones (Bamboo resolution: 2560 lpi, Intuos4 resolution: 5080 lpi).  It has 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity, on par with the current Bamboo line (double the old, half the Intuos4), which requires a bit more pressure than the Wacom, but full pressure did not leave scratches on the smooth plastic overlay of the drawing surface.  The overlay lifts up to allow you to stick a sheet of paper underneath for easy tracing.  It lacks tilt sensitivity, which seems to be a patented feature only available on the Intuos.  I normally hold it in my lap, but it does have four wide rubber feet on the bottom, and I just set it on my desk to see if I could push it around and found it very difficult.  It helps that the unit is very thin, and the two inch-wide bezel tapers down to about 1/8" thick at the edges, making it nearly flush with the desk's surface.  Despite this, it feels like a very solid unit that I wouldn't worry about dropping from desk height, and could be carried daily in a bag with a laptop or textbooks, if care was taken with the cord (non-detachable).

While cheap -> top-of-the-line is not always the best upgrade plan, the negligible cost of the Monoprice tablet compared to the Wacom Intuos seems worth it to ensure that a) you'll like using a tablet at all, b) that the features of the much cheaper tablet aren't sufficient for your needs, and c) to allow you to grow as a tablet artist so you'll be ready to make full use of the Intuos once (and if) the Monoprice tablet starts to feel limiting.


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