# The Furred Reich



## ElioteDarth (Jan 31, 2017)

Did anybody here read this book? If yes, is it well written?

Yes, I know the author is a Nazi fur (at least it seems like). But I saw someone posting it on another site some time ago and wondered if other people here had read it, since you guys are like the biggest furry community I know.

Also I know anything with Nazis is taboo (unless they are the bad guys) so please let's stay on the book.


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## Sagt (Jan 31, 2017)

ElioteDarth said:


> Did anybody here read this book? If yes, is it well written?
> 
> Yes, I know the author is a Nazi fur (at least it seems like). But I saw someone posting it on another site some time ago and wondered if other people here had read it, since you guys are like the biggest furry community I know.
> 
> Also I know anything with Nazis is taboo (unless they are the bad guys) so please let's stay on the book.


Some of the highlights I read from the reviews section on Amazon:

"After The Worst Things For Sale panned this one, I really, really wanted to like it...but I just couldn't. The battle scene is action-packed, and does a pretty good job conveying the frantic horror of being under fire (at least to a civilian like me). The problem is, the writing is amateurish at best. There are malapropisms, typos, stilted dialog, and awkward prose (e.g. describing things that are implied by previous statements) everywhere, and it all chipped away at my suspension of disbelief. "

"It reads more like a fan fiction than anything serious and runs off alot of assumptions and has one or more unresolved sub plots but otherwise is really easy to read and keeps things interesting."

"Boy was I mistaken. This book is terrible. Maybe one of the worse I have try to read. Terrible grammar. Story just lame. Simply put bad."
I'd say that if you're into absurd plots with furry erotica, you should give it a go. Otherwise, I'd suggest that you avoid reading it.


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## exxo-yawning (Feb 19, 2017)

Guys.... please don't support stuff written by literal neo nazis... please... 
Even reading it as a joke is still putting money into a nazi's pocket, and everyone's better than that.


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## Square-Wave_Kittycat (Mar 7, 2017)

xDD
That pun in the title tho.


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## nerdbat (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> Guys.... please don't support stuff written by literal neo nazis... please...
> Even reading it as a joke is still putting money into a nazi's pocket, and everyone's better than that.


...eeh, still worth it.


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## exxo-yawning (Mar 15, 2017)

nerdbat said:


> ...eeh, still worth it.


That's a little concerning that you don't care if you're monetarily supporting people who promote genocide.


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> That's a little concerning that you don't care if you're monetarily supporting people who promote genocide.


Just no.


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## -Praydeth- (Mar 15, 2017)

Please stop bringing up this thread if you don't like it so no one else has to witness it................ Please?


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## exxo-yawning (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Just no.


Tbh I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me based on this.


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## exxo-yawning (Mar 15, 2017)

-Praydeth- said:


> Please stop bringing up this thread if you don't like it so no one else has to witness it................ Please?


All due respect, I'm asking people NOT to read this... Thing. You chose to look at this, I'm not forcing it on anybody.


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> Tbh I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me based on this.


While the author is an awful person and a nazi apologist, it's probably too far to say that the guy promotes genocide.


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## exxo-yawning (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> While the author is an awful person and a nazi apologist, it's probably too far to say that the guy promotes genocide.


That's where I've got to sincerely disagree. Genocide is an inextricable part of Nazism. By aligning himself in any way with Nazi ideology, that author is putting his tacit approval on genocide, passively or not.


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## Sogreth (Mar 15, 2017)

It doesn't seem like the type of book I would even read. But if it was, I doubt I would avoid it just because I heard the author is a neo nazi.

But judging by those reviews it doesn't seem too great anyways. Not like I can complain though, I'm probably not much better of a writer lol


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## nerdbat (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> That's a little concerning that you don't care if you're monetarily supporting people who promote genocide.


Welp, as long as they're harmless and entertaining, I don't see any problem. To be honest, I support and love a lot of artists/musicians/moviemakers who are total assholes in real life - if I judged media by its creators, I would never watch any James Cameron movie, never listened to any John Lennon or Kanye West album, and never read any Harlan Ellison book. Some unpleasant people can actually create interesting (and sometimes genuinely good) pieces of media, believe it or not.

(only, well, in this case the book can be good because it's so bad, lol)


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

nerdbat said:


> Welp, as long as they're harmless and entertaining, I don't see any problem. To be honest, I support and love a lot of artists/musicians/moviemakers who are total assholes in real life - if I judged media by its creators, I would never watch any James Cameron movie, never listened to any John Lennon or Kanye West album, and never read any Harlan Ellison book.
> 
> (only, well, in this case the book can be good because it's so bad, lol)


I was about to write something very similar to this. Anyways, I'd add onto that list a filmmaker called Woodey Allen.


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## exxo-yawning (Mar 15, 2017)

You know, last thing I'm gonna say on this, cuz frankly this thread is making me nauseous.
I'm deeply disturbed by the laise faire attitude toward nazism in the furry community displayed here, and I really hope it's not indicative of the community as a whole. 
Peace.


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## nerdbat (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> You know, last thing I'm gonna say on this, cuz frankly this thread is making me nauseous.
> I'm deeply disturbed by the laise faire attitude toward nazism in the furry community displayed here, and I really hope it's not indicative of the community as a whole.
> Peace.


I think you're overreacting a bit, but it's your right, I guess.


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> You know, last thing I'm gonna say on this, cuz frankly this thread is making me nauseous.
> I'm deeply disturbed by the laise faire attitude toward nazism in the furry community displayed here, and I really hope it's not indicative of the community as a whole.
> Peace.


I agree with you that the artist has some very distasteful views. However, I still think that the artist should be ignored when judging the actual art and deciding whether to read it. So bringing up that the author is a nazi apologist doesn't mean too much to me in terms of how I'd view the book itself.

Nonetheless, I would never read this book since the reviews suggest the writing is very bad and I'm also not a fan of how the author placed his fringe views into the book.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> You know, last thing I'm gonna say on this, cuz frankly this thread is making me nauseous.
> I'm deeply disturbed by the laise faire attitude toward nazism in the furry community displayed here, and *I really hope it's not indicative of the community as a whole. *
> Peace.



Don't worry; it's not.

Anyway, I tried to find out if Len Gilbert _is_ a Nazi sympathiser, as some users claimed. I found an article in the New Statesman in which he describes himself as 'alt-right'. He does also disavow the Nazi ideology, but it's not clear whether he holds white supremacist views (at least in the article).
www.newstatesman.com: How George W Bush went from “war criminal” to the internet’s favourite grandpa

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt of assuming that he simply has an unfortunate fetish for furries dressing up in Nazi uniforms.

In any case, I think that the existence of cringe-inducing Nazi themed furry erotica probably does more to make Neo-Nazi groups look_ even more ridiculous_, than it could ever do to support them.



Lcs said:


> I agree with you that the artist has some very distasteful views. However, I still think that the artist should be ignored when judging the actual art and deciding whether to read it. So bringing up that the author is a nazi apologist doesn't mean too much to me in terms of how I'd view the book itself.
> 
> Nonetheless, I would never read this book since the reviews suggest the writing is very bad and I'm also not a fan of how the author placed his fringe views into the book.


I checked and Len claims that he dislikes Nazi apologists. 
So I guess we can just file this book under 'very awkward fetish' rather than 'politically motivated'.


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## exxo-yawning (Mar 15, 2017)

nerdbat said:


> I think you're overreacting a bit, but it's your right, I guess.


And frankly I think you're a bit of a creep, but that's your right I guess.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 15, 2017)

As much as I bloody loathe furry puns I actually find this name adorable and I don't know why



exxo-yawning said:


> Guys.... please don't support stuff written by literal neo nazis... please...
> Even reading it as a joke is still putting money into a nazi's pocket, and everyone's better than that.



Don't tell me how to waste my hard earned dosh mate.



ElioteDarth said:


> Did anybody here read this book? If yes, is it well written?
> 
> Yes, I know the author is a Nazi fur (at least it seems like). But I saw someone posting it on another site some time ago and wondered if other people here had read it, since you guys are like the biggest furry community I know.
> 
> Also I know anything with Nazis is taboo (unless they are the bad guys) so please let's stay on the book.



Never heard of it but if it's WWII themed book I may give it a look. I'm a huge sucker for anything to do with history regardless of which side it's on.

Huge reason of why I love the Saga of Tanya the Evil




Fallowfox said:


> furry erotica



Wait, it's erotica? Okay yeah no fuck that


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> Don't worry; it's not.
> 
> Anyway, I tried to find out if Len Gilbert _is_ a Nazi sympathiser, as some users claimed. I found an article in the New Statesman in which he describes himself as 'alt-right'. He does also disavow the Nazi ideology, but it's not clear whether he holds white supremacist views (at least in the article).
> www.newstatesman.com: How George W Bush went from “war criminal” to the internet’s favourite grandpa
> ...


There's remarkably little information about the author online, but based off of his blog and facebook, it makes me rather convinced that he is some sort of nazi apologist. 

Furred Reich Blog
m.facebook.com: The Furred Reich


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## WolfyJake (Mar 15, 2017)

People are so touchy when it comes to nazi's and neo-nazi's, like it would be better to not talk about it and just avoid the subject entirely.
Judging by the reviews, it's terrible. So I won't buy such a thing. If it was really good, but written by a nazi, I would have bought it. A good book is a good book, regardless of the author.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

I don't really know much about nazism, but isn't it just dividing people into classes? Such rule was a norm for like forever and it's still today to a certain extend


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> I don't really know much about nazism, but isn't it just dividing people into classes? Such rule was a norm for like forever and it's still today to a certain extend



Basically how it's used now is as a means to dismiss and refute arguments without anything else backing it through a moral sense. Aside from that it's really only used as a means to class someone who agrees with them as them; nothing to do with socioeconomic standing


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> There's remarkably little information about the author online, but based off of his blog and facebook, it makes me rather convinced that he is some sort of nazi apologist.
> 
> Furred Reich Blog
> m.facebook.com: The Furred Reich



Yes you're right, the first link you featured contained blog posts moaning about how to manage the fact that a prominent alt-right figurehead had a Jewish wife...and at no point did he criticise the antisemites who don't approve of people being married to Jews.
He also referred to a member of the white-supremacy movement as 'our media shock jock', which pretty much confirms that he is a white supremacist.

So yeah, looks like he is a Nazi apologist.

Given this, I reported the furred Reich facebook page (as if erotic fiction books should have  facebook pages anyway).



Aleksion said:


> I don't really know much about nazism, but isn't it just dividing people into classes? Such rule was a norm for like forever and it's still today to a certain extend



I am very surprised your school did not teach you about the second world war.
The Nazi ideology (an abreviation of National-Sozialismus) rose to power in 1930's Germany, and it contended that the German Aryan race was superior and that Germany had a duty to expand its territory across Europe all the way to the Ural mountains in order to protect and represent German-speaking people and to topple a secret Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.

(the crazy should be more than apparent by now)

The Nazis held that certain groups of people, like Jews, Slavic people, Homosexuals, the Roma, and the disabled, were sub-human and millions of people who were classified as such were worked to death or systematically murdered in mechanised concentration camps in Nazi-occupied Europe.

Nazism - Wikipedia


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> I am very surprised your school did not teach you about the second world war.
> The Nazi ideology (an abreviation of National-Sozialismus) rose to power in 1930's Germany, and it contended that the German Aryan race was superior and that Germany had a duty to expand its territory across Europe all the way to the Ural mountains in order to protect and represent German-speaking people and to topple a secret Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.
> 
> (the crazy should be more than apparent by now)
> ...



I don't know, history books are written by those who win and they can write whatever they want, so they make nazis sound like monsters.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> I don't know, history books are written by those who win and they can write whatever they want, so they make nazis sound like monsters.



You'd have to ignore a huge amount of photographic evidence, official records, eye-witness accounts from victims in the concentration camps, former Nazi personnel and so forth to entertain this conspiracy.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 15, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> You'd have to ignore a huge amount of photographic evidence, official records, eye-witness accounts from victims in the concentration camps, former Nazi personnel and so forth to entertain this conspiracy.



To a degree he does have a point. Granted I don't believe that everything is a lie but I'd definitely accept that it's possible some minor details were skewed for whatever reason


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> You'd have to ignore a huge amount of photographic evidence, official records, eye-witness accounts from victims in the concentration camps, former Nazi personnel and so forth to entertain this conspiracy.



I'm not denying the excistance of labor camps in nazi germany. Russians had them too, even allies had them


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Hello, this is Len Gilbert, the author of The Furred Reich.

I normally don't bother with chatter about my book on the internet, but there are a number of glaring misconceptions that I'd like to clean up.

First of all, yes, I have a number of bad amazon reviews, but all of the one-star reviews that I've received are from people who didn't actually read the book. They were simply angry about what they believed the book represented and gave it a one-star. One of the fellows was a guy with a Jewish surname who had left unsolicited profanity on my facebook page. Another was a person from Fur Affinity who I'd kicked off my FA page. Since Amazon allows authors to track purchases, I can confirm that neither of these individuals bought my book. The review about "bad grammar," I think it was, was also not from someone who purchased the book. I strongly suspect that was written by a Redditor who featured my book at a trolling subreddit. There are some legitimate negative reviews, but the majority of them are simply attempts to lower my amazon rating. The legitimate negative reviews I am actually thankful for, because it allows me to improve the second edition of my book, plus the sequel.

I've also gotten a lot of positive feedback on this book from people who are reluctant to leave a review because they don't want people to know they read erotica. This heavily skews the rating.

That brings me to the second point. Yes, The Furred Reich has graphic, erotic scenes. I've gotten a lot of feedback from buyers who bought the book expecting a traditional fantasy series, only to be hit by erotic scenes with anthropomorphic animals, which many outside the furry community are not familiar with. After a decent amount of feedback from supporters I've actually decided to remove all the erotic scenes and make the series PG-13 going forward. That will require a new edition of the first book. The sequel, Lightning and the Sun, will also be Pg-13. So, if you don't want to read erotica, The Furred Reich will soon be geared to you.

The "Worst Things For Sale" review I feel was not fair to my book. It calls it "Nazi beastiality." This is a typical misnomer assigned to the furry fandom. There is no 'beastiality' in this book. I therefore strongly suspect the author of that blog did not actually read the book either.


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

TheFurredReich said:


> Hello, this is Len Gilbert, the author of The Furred Reich.
> 
> I normally don't bother with chatter about my book on the internet, but there are a number of glaring misconceptions that I'd like to clean up.
> 
> ...


Assuming that you're the real deal, could you clarify what your relationship to nazism is? As in, is this just a fetish to you or is this more politically motivated? I've seen some very questionable things posted by you that give evidence to this being something politically motivated, so I'm very curious.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Assuming that you're the real deal, could you clarify what your relationship to nazism is? As in, is this just a fetish to you or is this more politically motivated? I've seen some very questionable things posted by you that give evidence to this being something politically motivated, so I'm very curious.



Leave the guy alone. It's a free country, he can have any political views he wants


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## Sogreth (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Assuming that you're the real deal, could you clarify what your relationship to nazism is? As in, is this just a fetish to you or is this more politically motivated? I've seen some very questionable things posted by you that give evidence to this being something politically motivated, so I'm very curious.



I have a feeling it's not actually him. Kind of a weird coincidence that the guy just happened to know of this specific thread, and made an account just to post here.


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

Sogreth said:


> I have a feeling it's not actually him. Kind of a weird coincidence that the guy just happened to know of this specific thread, and made an account just to post here.


I was wondering if he was a troll as well, but something about what he wrote seemed very genuine. Particularly the "One of the fellows was a guy with a Jewish surname who had left unsolicited profanity on my facebook page" bit.



Aleksion said:


> Leave the guy alone. It's a free country, he can have any political views he wants


It works the other way around as well. This meaning that I'm allowed to have whatever opinion I want for other people's views. Also, we do not all live in the same country nor does living in a free country have much relevance to me asking him to clarify his views. 

By the way, I cannot tell if your posts are just meant to be trolling or not, but I'll assume that you're just trying to imitate Alex K and Doku.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Sogreth said:


> I have a feeling it's not actually him. Kind of a weird coincidence that the guy just happened to know of this specific thread, and made an account just to post here.



Guys here are pouring shit on his business on the largest furry forum to which users the book is targeted, what do you want him to do?


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Assuming that you're the real deal, could you clarify what your relationship to nazism is? As in, is this just a fetish to you or is this more politically motivated? I've seen some very questionable things posted by you that give evidence to this being something politically motivated, so I'm very curious.



*To be fair,* Nazi uniforms sans the arm band were pretty damn sleek and were pretty fashionable


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> Assuming that you're the real deal, could you clarify what your relationship to nazism is? As in, is this just a fetish to you or is this more politically motivated? I've seen some very questionable things posted by you that give evidence to this being something politically motivated, so I'm very curious.



I don't have a relationship with Nazism or anything like that. As another poster here noted from one of my blog posts, I was involved in some white power groups years ago, which my blog post makes pretty clear that I regret doing. The book does feature several real historical figures from a certain military division of The Third Reich, a division that I believe was wrongly accused of a certain battlefield atrocity, and the story covers their journey through that. I'm reluctant to give a lot more detail and give out spoilers, but no, this isn't one of those stories that tries to be really apolitical and airbrush stuff away. In that sense, yes it is politically motivated.


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> *To be fair,* Nazi uniforms sans the arm band were pretty damn sleek and were pretty fashionable


The Waffen-SS  military ones are my favorite. In fact, those were designed by Hugo Boss himself. I also like the Panzer outfits with the black earmuffs. I would post a pic example but the moderators wouldn't be too keen on it


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

TheFurredReich said:


> I don't have a relationship with Nazism or anything like that. As another poster here noted from one of my blog posts, I was involved in some white power groups years ago, which my blog post makes pretty clear that I regret doing. The book does feature several real historical figures from a certain military division of The Third Reich, a division that I believe was wrongly accused of a certain battlefield atrocity, and the story covers their journey through that. I'm reluctant to give a lot more detail and give out spoilers, but no, this isn't one of those stories that tries to be really apolitical and airbrush stuff away. In that sense, yes it is politically motivated.


I'll take that with a pinch of salt, but thanks for clarifying.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 15, 2017)

TheFurredReich said:


> I don't have a relationship with Nazism or anything like that. As another poster here noted from one of my blog posts, I was involved in some white power groups years ago, which my blog post makes pretty clear that I regret doing. The book does feature several real historical figures from a certain military division of The Third Reich, a division that I believe was wrongly accused of a certain battlefield atrocity, and the story covers their journey through that. I'm reluctant to give a lot more detail and give out spoilers, but no, this isn't one of those stories that tries to be really apolitical and airbrush stuff away. In that sense, yes it is politically motivated.



Is it actually a story or is it just smut?



TheFurredReich said:


> The Waffen-SS  military ones are my favorite. In fact, those were designed by Hugo Boss himself. I also like the Panzer outfits with the black earmuffs. I would post a pic example but the moderators wouldn't be too keen on it



You talking this?


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Sogreth said:


> I have a feeling it's not actually him. Kind of a weird coincidence that the guy just happened to know of this specific thread, and made an account just to post here.



When someone links to my blog and traffic goes there I am able to see the source of it.


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> Is it actually a story or is it just smut?



It's a real story. It's a 250 page book. It has 70 chapters, only two of which have erotic scenes. A lot of people got really bent out of shape about that and the suggestive cover and started calling the story something it was not.

PS: Apologize for the double posts


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## Mandragoras (Mar 15, 2017)

Speaking as someone whose paternal grandmother's family was all but wiped off the face of the earth in the Shoah, I really do hope that you're not trying to pull some Willis Carto "historical revisionist" bullshit here. The Allied side certainly committed atrocities in their own right, but let's not brush eleven million corpses under the rug, nicht?

EDIT: Wrong letter there. My mother's side of the family are a different story.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> Speaking as someone whose paternal grandmother's family was all but wiped off the face of the earth in the Shoah, I really do hope that you're not trying to pull some Willis Carto "historical revisionist" bullshit here. The Allied side certainly committed atrocities in their own right, but let's not brush eleven million corpses under the rug, nicht?
> 
> EDIT: Wrong letter there. My mother's side of the family are a different story.



relax it's just a fictional story based on real events


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## Mandragoras (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> relax it's just a fictional story based on real events


See, the thing about pretending that real things didn't happen is that it can catch on in very nasty ways. It can even become part of a national myth. You ever heard of the Armenian Genocide? If you have, good; if not, look it up. Now, do you know what the state policies of Turkey and Azerbaijan are with respect to discussing the Armenian Genocide, particularly calling it a genocide? Take a wild guess. Hitler used the lack of press surrounding the massacres as a justification for the Final Solution, arguing that history could be erased, even whole campaigns of slaughter. The destruction of the Western Xia, the Seven Kill Stele, the California Indian genocide, British colonists hunting aboriginal Australians like foxes—there's a lot that people can pretend never happened.

I like plenty of things with questionable politics. I mean, it's pretty much a given if you're Ukrainian and you play black metal that you probably know or have been in a band with at least one neo-Nazi, but I like tremolo picking and screaming, so I'm not going to get too hung up on that. _But_ that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask questions and play dumb when it seems clear that somebody has an agenda.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> See, the thing about pretending that real things didn't happen is that it can catch on in very nasty ways. It can even become part of a national myth. You ever heard of the Armenian Genocide? If you have, good; if not, look it up. Now, do you know what the state policies of Turkey and Azerbaijan are with respect to discussing the Armenian Genocide, particularly calling it a genocide? Take a wild guess. Hitler used the lack of press surrounding the massacres as a justification for the Final Solution, arguing that history could be erased, even whole campaigns of slaughter. The destruction of the Western Xia, the Seven Kill Stele, the California Indian genocide, British colonists hunting aboriginal Australians like foxes—there's a lot that people can pretend never happened.
> 
> I like plenty of things with questionable politics. I mean, it's pretty much a given if you're Ukrainian and you play black metal that you probably know or have been in a band with at least one neo-Nazi, but I like tremolo picking and screaming, so I'm not going to get too hung up on that. _But_ that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask questions and play dumb when it seems clear that somebody has an agenda.



Dude, it's a story for entertainment, no one is gonna take it seriously especially when there's furry characters involved. Most war movies pushes their agenda that Americans saved the word and Germans were just untrained retards who couldn't even shoot straight. Do I feel offended by it? No.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> See, the thing about pretending that real things didn't happen is that it can catch on in very nasty ways. It can even become part of a national myth. You ever heard of the Armenian Genocide? If you have, good; if not, look it up. Now, do you know what the state policies of Turkey and Azerbaijan are with respect to discussing the Armenian Genocide, particularly calling it a genocide? Take a wild guess. Hitler used the lack of press surrounding the massacres as a justification for the Final Solution, arguing that history could be erased, even whole campaigns of slaughter. The destruction of the Western Xia, the Seven Kill Stele, the California Indian genocide, British colonists hunting aboriginal Australians like foxes—there's a lot that people can pretend never happened.
> 
> I like plenty of things with questionable politics. I mean, it's pretty much a given if you're Ukrainian and you play black metal that you probably know or have been in a band with at least one neo-Nazi, but I like tremolo picking and screaming, so I'm not going to get too hung up on that. _But_ that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask questions and play dumb when it seems clear that somebody has an agenda.



The author isn't pretending a real event didn't happen.  They created a fictional universe based on real world events.

I'm dropping a cautionary warning to everyone:  Yes, the Holocaust was a horrific event that had massive repercussions for real world individuals, their families, and the world as a whole.

That means it is an emotional and touchy subject.

That said, everyone please remain civil.  Do not throw insults.  Do not put words in others mouths.  Keep it as a productive discussion, not an attack thread.


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## Mandragoras (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> Dude, it's a story for entertainment, no one is gonna take it seriously especially when there's furry characters involved. Most war movies pushes their agenda that Americans saved the word and Germans were just untrained retards who couldn't even shoot straight. Do I feel offended by it? No.


And yet most war movies don't focus on actual atrocities and suggest that the Allies were framed. If nothing else, they at least have the decency to avoid the firebombing of Dresden or the Katyn massacre. My issue is not with the subject matter as a whole, but with how the author has suggested that he believes the Germans were "wrongly accused" of a particular atrocity without clarifying what atrocity. The fact that he identifies as "alt-right" strikes me as disquieting in this context.


SSJ3Mewtwo said:


> The author isn't pretending a real event didn't happen.  They created a fictional universe based on real world events.


Here's my bone of contention:


TheFurredReich said:


> The book does feature several real historical figures from a certain military division of The Third Reich, a division that I believe was wrongly accused of a certain battlefield atrocity, and the story covers their journey through that. I'm reluctant to give a lot more detail and give out spoilers, but no, this isn't one of those stories that tries to be really apolitical and airbrush stuff away. In that sense, yes it is politically motivated.


My problem should be clear. I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, just making sure that I'm not reading what I *think* I'm reading.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> My issue is not with the subject matter as a whole, but with how the author has suggested that he believes the Germans were "wrongly accused" of a particular atrocity without clarifying what atrocity.



I'm sure he wasn't talking about those all 6 million jews there


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> And yet most war movies don't focus on actual atrocities and suggest that the Allies were framed. If nothing else, they at least have the decency to avoid the firebombing of Dresden or the Katyn massacre. My issue is not with the subject matter as a whole, but with how the author has suggested that he believes the Germans were "wrongly accused" of a particular atrocity without clarifying what atrocity. The fact that he identifies as "alt-right" strikes me as disquieting in this context.
> 
> Here's my bone of contention:
> 
> My problem should be clear. I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, just making sure that I'm not reading what I *think* I'm reading.



Because the author has not stated what events he feels contentious about, yes, you are coming close to putting words in his mouth.

So I am just repeating it again:  Keep the discussion civil.  If you must, take some time away from the topic to cool down a bit.


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## Sagt (Mar 15, 2017)

@TheFurredReich

When searching the image on your profile and finding your "secret" twitter account which the photo is linked to, it's quite clear that you weren't being entirely honest with what you said earlier. On the account, I see that you describe yourself as a nazi fur, use the phrase "sieg heil", follow the former KKK leader (David Duke), you follow anti-semitic named users and you like photos that describe Turkish people as cockroaches.

Is there an explanation for this?


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> I'm sure he wasn't talking about those all 6 million jews there



Exactly right. In fact I wasn't talking about any. If you read my comment I said it was a certain_ military _division which was accused of a certain _battlefield _atrocity. As in one event, and not civilian related. I try to use precise language to avoid incidences like this but it's apparently futile. I'm tempted to just give a spoiler about which event, but I doubt it would stoke any interest. 

The administrator was also right in his assessment that this book is in a fictional universe based on real events.


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## -Praydeth- (Mar 15, 2017)




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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> @TheFurredReich
> 
> When searching the image on your profile and finding your "secret" twitter account which the photo is linked to, it's quite clear that you weren't being entirely honest with what you said earlier. (...)  use the phrase "sieg heil",



That isn't a 'secret' account at all. You can type my name on Twitter and it shows up. The phrase I used in that tweet was obviously a joke, but you didn't get the reference. It was directed to #AltFurry, which is also a joke. Blaming me for the words of people who I follow is just ridiculous.


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## Aleksion (Mar 15, 2017)

Lcs said:


> When searching the image on your profile and finding your "secret" twitter account which the photo is linked to, it's quite clear that you weren't being entirely honest with what you said earlier. On the account, I see that you describe yourself as a nazi fur, use the phrase "sieg heil", follow the former KKK leader (David Duke), you follow anti-semitic named users and you like photos that describe Turkish people as cockroaches.
> 
> Is there an explanation for this?



poor self hating white liberal


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## Casey Fluffbat (Mar 15, 2017)

Do they ever say "heil Hitfur" in the book? If so, I'd laugh my ass off.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

Sergei Sóhomo said:


> To a degree he does have a point. Granted I don't believe that everything is a lie but I'd definitely accept that it's possible some minor details were skewed for whatever reason



I am confident that even the minor details of the description of Germany's atrocities are incorrect.  History's bias is the omission of the _Allies' _atrocities from history.

For example, when Jewish refugees from Germany were taken to England, they continued to face discrimination from antisemites in England.
Alan Turing, the man who cracked the enigma code and helped prevent a huge loss of life and expedite the end of the war, was forced to undergo chemical castration after he war, when the British police discovered that he was a homosexual.

So we need to remember that the prejudiced perspectives that we all recognise as evil, when they were held by Nazi Germany, also existed in Allies to some extent, and actually lingered long after the end of the second world war. :\



TheFurredReich said:


> When someone links to my blog and traffic goes there I am able to see the source of it.



To be honest, we still cannot be sure it is you, unless you make a post on your blog about this I suppose; that would confirm it. 

Anyway, I really wouldn't be able to fault you if you simply had a sexual fetish for Nazi uniforms and wrote an erotic fiction about pretend Nazis. 

Your past involvement in white supremacist organisations makes me apprehensive though, and I think other users have been right to point out that following *Klu Klux Klan members *on your twitter account gives the impression that you still support white supremacy. 

If you don't support white supremacy, then you're handling your public relations very badly by giving detractors _every reason_ to believe that your book glorifies Nazism and that it is aimed at neo-Nazi elements of the alt-right. :\


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## Sogreth (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> poor self hating white liberal



You remind me of someone that was recently banned from FAF....


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

I can't really change what my past was, just recognize that it was wrong and that it was a youthful indescretion. As for following people on Twitter, I don't agree with a lot of what David Duke says but he says some interesting things so I follow him. Doesn't mean I'm with his organization. People who don't make that distinction aren't my audience anyway, but it's interesting you bring that up because my book _is_ aimed to the Alt-Right

It's funny because I actually used to be super nice, keep a low profile and keep things exclusively on Furry platforms. After being 'no platformed' by pretty much every gate keeper in this fandom I realized that it didn't matter how nice my PR was, the various gate keepers here weren't going to give it a chance anyway.

We live in a time where there is no 'mass market,' to access, only a collection of tribal niches which often block each other off. The alt right's "red pilled literature" _is_ my niche and it's the gritty counterculture which I market to, although there is a strong counter current in this fandom as well.


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## Sergei Sóhomo (Mar 15, 2017)

TheFurredReich said:


> I can't really change what my past was, just recognize that it was wrong and that it was a youthful indescretion. As for following people on Twitter, I don't agree with a lot of what David Duke says but he says some interesting things so I follow him. Doesn't mean I'm with his organization. People who don't make that distinction aren't my audience anyway, but it's interesting you bring that up because my book _is_ aimed to the Alt-Right
> 
> It's funny because I actually used to be super nice, keep a low profile and keep things exclusively on Furry platforms. After being 'no platformed' by pretty much every gate keeper in this fandom I realized that it didn't matter how nice my PR was, the various gate keepers here weren't going to give it a chance anyway.
> 
> We live in a time where there is no 'mass market,' to access, only a collection of tribal niches which often block each other off. The alt right's "red pilled literature" _is_ my niche and it's the gritty counterculture which I market to, although there is a strong counter current in this fandom as well.



Knowing your market and using it for your gain? Now that's something I can respect


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

TheFurredReich said:


> I can't really change what my past was, just recognize that it was wrong and that it was a youthful indescretion. As for following people on Twitter, I don't agree with a lot of what David Duke says but he says some interesting things so I follow him. Doesn't mean I'm with his organization. People who don't make that distinction aren't my audience anyway, but it's interesting you bring that up because my book _is_ aimed to the Alt-Right
> 
> It's funny because I actually used to be super nice, keep a low profile and keep things exclusively on Furry platforms. After being 'no platformed' by pretty much every gate keeper in this fandom I realized that it didn't matter how nice my PR was, the various gate keepers here weren't going to give it a chance anyway.
> 
> We live in a time where there is no 'mass market,' to access, only a collection of tribal niches which often block each other off. The alt right's "red pilled literature" _is_ my niche and it's the gritty counterculture which I market to, although there is a strong counter current in this fandom as well.


I'm not sure why I'm responding to this, because it's still possible that you're not actually Len. *shrug*

Following white supremacists on a twitter account associated with your book isn't a smart move, and it's going to make neo-Nazis think the book is aimed at them.

I'm not sure why you think there isn't a mass market for fiction, because authors like JK Rowling and GRR Martin show there is, there's even a mass market for erotic sadomasochistic fiction, as demonstrated by the success of 50 shades of grey. It's just that if you market your book it in a way so that only 'red-pilled' basement dwelling neo-Nazi troglodytes could want to buy it, then you're _not going to appeal to the mass market_.

It's fine to write literature that _is _meant for niche audiences...just, you're obviously going to find yourself in unpleasant territory if you write a book about Nazis and market it at a group notorious for an _ambiguous_ relationship with neo-Nazis.


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## nerdbat (Mar 15, 2017)

exxo-yawning said:


> And frankly I think you're a bit of a creep, but that's your right I guess.


I can explain in many words for why you may be overreacting over a silly book of an incompetent writer (which is something people did here already), but I fail to see how my words make me a creep. It kind of upsets me, really - both how quickly you leveled it to personal insults and the way you dismiss people as "those filthy nazi supporters" because of, well, silly book of incompetent author. You need to chill out, really.


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> I'm not sure why I'm responding to this, because it's still possible that you're not actually Len. *shrug*
> 
> Following white supremacists on a twitter account associated with your book isn't a smart move, and it's going to make neo-Nazis think the book is aimed at them.
> 
> ...



You might be right but I wonder how earnest this conversation is. _You _find it 'unpleasant territory,' but that's because _you_ are a partisan individual. For example, you hadn't even laid eyes on my Twitter account when you boasted about reporting my Facebook page for basically no reason. From a public relations or marketing standpoint, there's obviously no point in reaching out to people with your perspective. (Good luck with that, by the way, it's not the first time or the tenth someone has tried shutting it down. There's nothing on there)

I market to a counter culture. My hunch is that it is a very big one. It got a president elected, and I'm reluctant to try placating people with your perspective because 1) I've tried that in the past and it hasn't made any difference and 2) I frankly don't think your sensibilities are in the mainstream anymore at all. If I see this approach isn't working I'll change it, but drawing the ire of a handful of obviously right-brained people in a Furry forum isn't going to move the needle. The only reason I came here is because there seemed to be a couple normal furs here who didn't realize that the only reason my Amazon rating was low is because a number of people who didn't even read the damn book were sabotaging the rating.

And yeah, it is me. Leave me a message on that Facebook page you just snitched on and I'll respond if you're so inclined.


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## RileyTheOtter (Mar 15, 2017)

I wouldn't expect an answer, that would actually require putting in effort to listen to someone he disagrees with and a willingness to keep an open-mind, neither of which Fallow has ever shown a capacity for. However in my opinion it should be worth noting that most writers don't tend to write a novel on something they don't have a belief in of one form or another, that said if you didn't believe in that side of history I applaud the effort nonetheless. I also applaud standing by your choice and giving reasons for it instead of blindly throwing flak as a defense like some others here seem to enjoy doing.


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## Mandragoras (Mar 15, 2017)

Trivial aside, but you do recognise that the vast majority of Trump voters are just down-the-line Republicans, right? The alt-right, while vocal, is a very small niche, and while I'm sure you can make *some* money pandering to the tiny furry subset therein... if you're at all concerned with expanding beyond that arena and getting people to listen to what you have to say beyond "I'm really into Nazi uniforms and follow an actual Klan leader on Twitter," you're going to need to put some serious work into not seeming like a racist nutball. Not even because you might be one, but because you are actively engaging with the type.

Like, let's say I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just really into military history and have an "edgy" sense of humour. It's not implausible. But even with that in mind, the way you're promoting your book is, at minimum, going to make a whole lot of people turn tail right off the bat. Because you're pandering to neo-Nazis. Not to people who are into WWII trivia, or people with a uniform kink, or people who like alternative history, but actual white supremacists. You're seriously playing with fire, bruv. You've clearly been burned before, and you'll keep getting burned. You don't fuck with that kind of next-level stupid if you're interested in leading anything resembling a quiet, healthy existence.


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## TheFurredReich (Mar 15, 2017)

Abyssalrider said:


> I wouldn't expect an answer, that would actually require putting in effort to listen to someone he disagrees with and a willingness to keep an open-mind, neither of which Fallow has ever shown a capacity for. However in my opinion it should be worth noting that most writers don't tend to write a novel on something they don't have a belief in of one form or another, that said if you didn't believe in that side of history I applaud the effort nonetheless. I also applaud standing by your choice and giving reasons for it instead of blindly throwing flak as a defense like some others here seem to enjoy doing.



No I mean, you are right about that and I don't deny it for a second. I _do_ believe in the side I write about. Obviously Germany did a lot of indefensible things and its a blot on my ancestors and my people forever. But that doesn't mean I can stop being what I am and it doesn't mean turning my back on it. 

Most of all I believe in the people I wrote about: Generaloberst Sepp Dietrich, Col. Jochen Peiper, and the main character 'Hans,' who is based off a real person. I don't believe they were guilty of the Malmedy Massacre. Yeah, that's a spoiler but whatever. I've been a furry since forever so it's all good.

When I was 11 or 12 I saw a history channel documentary on some Waffen SS division and in them I saw all the masculine, upstanding traits in a role model boys that age look for in men. The masculine examples I saw on popular TV were such a pathetic joke, and so instead I took warriors like Dietrich, Peiper, Rommel, Michael Wittmann, Erich Hartmann and others as a secret role model. Even Hermann Goering, who I liked to laugh at as the funny fat guy.

Obviously that all effected my politics later on in life and I regret that. But the fact that a lot of these guys' stories are just discarded and dismissed is what possesses me to write about them. It isn't right. And I thought that a furry fantasy type story is a way to get them out of the dusty old stigmatized scenes of the past and into a new world. The Furry thing feels right in a Brothers Grimm way because anthropomorphised animals are so ingrained in German folklore and culture. It just feels appropriate. It's the first book I ever wrote and there's obviously some things that still need some work on it. Some of the criticism I received is valid. But I'll get it better. I'm going to do it head on and make mistakes and fail, and that's fine because that's the fastest way to learn. I'm not afraid of failure. Not like it results in getting shot up by a Kalishnikov.


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## Casey Fluffbat (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> Trivial aside, but you do recognise that the vast majority of Trump voters are just down-the-line Republicans, right? The alt-right, while vocal, is a very small niche, and while I'm sure you can make *some* money pandering to the tiny furry subset therein... if you're at all concerned with expanding beyond that arena and getting people to listen to what you have to say beyond "I'm really into Nazi uniforms and follow an actual Klan leader on Twitter," you're going to need to put some serious work into not seeming like a racist nutball. Not even because you might be one, but because you are actively engaging with the type.
> 
> Like, let's say I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just really into military history and have an "edgy" sense of humour. It's not implausible. But even with that in mind, the way you're promoting your book is, at minimum, going to make a whole lot of people turn tail right off the bat. Because you're pandering to neo-Nazis. Not to people who are into WWII trivia, or people with a uniform kink, or people who like alternative history, but actual white supremacists. You're seriously playing with fire, bruv. You've clearly been burned before, and you'll keep getting burned. You don't fuck with that kind of next-level stupid if you're interested in leading anything resembling a quiet, healthy existence.



"but you do recognise that the vast majority of Trump voters are just down-the-line Republicans, right?"

Thank you for saying this, the alt-right does paint this weird focus that does worse to demonize people for being affiliated with republicans. Doesn't help much in impressions and debate relations.

"You're seriously playing with fire, bruv."

I could see making this book for the hell of it to be edgy or something, but intentionally making neo-nazis a core consumer is risky, I agree.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 15, 2017)

Aleksion said:


> I don't really know much about nazism, but isn't it just dividing people into classes? Such rule was a norm for like forever and it's still today to a certain extend


The Socialist Worker's Party, later called The Nazi Party (by the winning side of history), was actually a Fascist system- to call it Nazism is not only cringy but a misnomer. And it was a hell of a lot more than that...


TheFurredReich said:


> Hello, this is Len Gilbert, the author of The Furred Reich.
> 
> I normally don't bother with chatter about my book on the internet, but there are a number of glaring misconceptions that I'd like to clean up.
> 
> ...


Sir, I've seen enough trolls in my years to question if you're the real deal...



TheFurredReich said:


> I don't have a relationship with Nazism or anything like that. As another poster here noted from one of my blog posts, I was involved in some white power groups years ago, which my blog post makes pretty clear that I regret doing. The book does feature several real historical figures from a certain military division of The Third Reich, a division that I believe was wrongly accused of a certain battlefield atrocity, and the story covers their journey through that. I'm reluctant to give a lot more detail and give out spoilers, but no, this isn't one of those stories that tries to be really apolitical and airbrush stuff away. In that sense, yes it is politically motivated.


Research fail. The Third Reich was the name for that era of the German Government.


TheFurredReich said:


> It's a real story. It's a 250 page book. It has 70 chapters, only two of which have erotic scenes. A lot of people got really bent out of shape about that and the suggestive cover and started calling the story something it was not.
> 
> PS: Apologize for the double posts


Don't worry about the multi-posts. You're the only one who will be reply restricted in the end...


Aleksion said:


> Dude, it's a story for entertainment, no one is gonna take it seriously especially when there's furry characters involved. Most war movies pushes their agenda that Americans saved the word and Germans were just untrained retards who couldn't even shoot straight. Do I feel offended by it? No.


Careful, you're starting a fire near a powder keg that might be bigger than you think


TheFurredReich said:


> No I mean, you are right about that and I don't deny it for a second. I _do_ believe in the side I write about. Obviously Germany did a lot of indefensible things and its a blot on my ancestors and my people forever. But that doesn't mean I can stop being what I am and it doesn't mean turning my back on it.
> 
> ...
> 
> When I was 11 or 12 I saw a history channel documentary on some Waffen SS division and in them I saw all the masculine, upstanding traits in a role model boys that age look for in men. The masculine examples I saw on popular TV were such a pathetic joke, and so instead I took warriors like Dietrich, Peiper, Rommel, Michael Wittmann, Erich Hartmann and others as a secret role model. Even Hermann Goering, who I liked to laugh at as the funny fat guy.


Desert Fox, eh? One of the few semi-decent Field Advisors of that era...

I honestly feel that (as questionable as the Author and his possible proxy profile here may be) any art must be viewed apart from it's creator. If the book sucks (and let's face it- I'm not quite to the point of reading any furry literature JUST yet), then the book sucks. Big deal. But don't go around saying "_Starry Night_ sucks" because you don't like Van Gogh


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

TheFurredReich said:


> You might be right but I wonder how earnest this conversation is. _You _find it 'unpleasant territory,' but that's because _you_ are a partisan individual. For example, you hadn't even laid eyes on my Twitter account when you boasted about reporting my Facebook page for basically no reason. From a public relations or marketing standpoint, there's obviously no point in reaching out to people with your perspective. (Good luck with that, by the way, it's not the first time or the tenth someone has tried shutting it down. There's nothing on there)
> 
> I market to a counter culture. My hunch is that it is a very big one. It got a president elected, and I'm reluctant to try placating people with your perspective because 1) I've tried that in the past and it hasn't made any difference and 2) I frankly don't think your sensibilities are in the mainstream anymore at all. If I see this approach isn't working I'll change it, but drawing the ire of a handful of obviously right-brained people in a Furry forum isn't going to move the needle. The only reason I came here is because there seemed to be a couple normal furs here who didn't realize that the only reason my Amazon rating was low is because a number of people who didn't even read the damn book were sabotaging the rating.
> 
> And yeah, it is me. Leave me a message on that Facebook page you just snitched on and I'll respond if you're so inclined.


Just _look at your blog_, man. 
Here's the blog entry you made in which you claim that the conviction of Hermann Goering was a 'farcical mockery of justice' and that you wanted to use your book to anthologise Lieutenant Jack Wheelis who was suspected of providing him with suicide pills so that he could escape his sentence.  
furredreichblog.com: My Meeting With The American Who Helped Hermann Goering

Other users here were clearly right when they accused you of being a historical revisionist and a Nazi apologist, so obviously I reported your facebook page, because that content violates facebook's community standards. 

Honestly, I _wish_ that it had turned out that it was all just some bizarre fetish.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 15, 2017)

Fallowfox said:


> Just _look at your blog_, man.
> Here's the blog entry you made in which you claim that the conviction of Hermann Goering was a 'farcical mockery of justice' and that you wanted to use your book to anthologise Lieutenant Jack Wheelis who was suspected of providing him with suicide pills so that he could escape his sentence.
> furredreichblog.com: My Meeting With The American Who Helped Hermann Goering
> 
> ...


When I just get done reading a thread, and this comes up... that escalated quickly.


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## Mandragoras (Mar 15, 2017)

MadKiyo said:


> Thank you for saying this, the alt-right does paint this weird focus that does worse to demonize people for being affiliated with republicans. Doesn't help much in impressions and debate relations.


Yeah. I mean, I think Trump is loathsome and dangerous, and I would say that some of his and his team's rhetoric, especially when it's coming from Steve Bannon, has a frightening neo-fascist edge to it. But I certainly don't think that the vast majority of his supporters are extremists, or avid bigots, or complete morons, or anything of the sort. I just think they picked a bad horse to bet on. Decent people can be wrong sometimes.


Crimson_Steel17 said:


> Desert Fox, eh? One of the few semi-decent Field Advisors of that era...


Rommel was a fascinating figure. It's really a shame that he got stuck fighting for who he did on a front that was a losing proposition to begin with. Such a waste of a respectable, intelligent human being.


Fallowfox said:


> Just _look at your blog_, man.
> Here's the blog entry you made in which you claim that the conviction of Hermann Goering was a 'farcical mockery of justice' and that you wanted to use your book to anthologise Lieutenant Jack Wheelis who was suspected of providing him with suicide pills so that he could escape his sentence.
> furredreichblog.com: My Meeting With The American Who Helped Hermann Goering
> 
> ...


...wowzah.


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## Fallowfox (Mar 15, 2017)

Crimson_Steel17 said:


> When I just get done reading a thread, and this comes up... that escalated quickly.


I was pretty shocked when I read it too.
Who knows if the man posting on the forum really _is_ Len. 
All we can really be sure of is that, given Len Gilbert's blog has that sort of content on it...the guy _is_ clearly a Nazi sympathiser.  :\ 

I had completely prepared myself to find out that it was _just some guy with a fetish_; I really didn't expect to stumble across actual Nazi apologetics.


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## Mandragoras (Mar 15, 2017)

This thread has gone into some fucking wild territory, I gotta say.


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## Honey Lavender; (Mar 15, 2017)

Mandragoras said:


> This thread has gone into some fucking wild territory, I gotta say.


Yeah, indeed. He really "yiffed" himself over, there


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Mar 15, 2017)

Because this is now escalating to a point where I don't see much more productivity coming from it, and more just insults getting slung, I'm closing this thread.


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