# Girls at conventions.



## SharkCookieAdopts (Sep 20, 2014)

*PSA: *if you're a girl, be super careful at furry conventions. I suppose this can apply to_ any_ convention, but since furry cons in particular tend to be more densely populated with guys, it ups the chances you'll run into dirtbags with bad intentions.
Disclaimer: guys are fine. Guys are cool. Dirtbag dudes aren't cool at all. Not all dudes are dirtbags. Not all dirtbags are dudes.

I've been to a fur con. I didn't suit, and I went alone, just to check out the culture.

I had a damn good time! People were pretty okay, dances were good, I got to meet a lot of people and have experiences I would have otherwise never had before.

THE AMOUNTS OF ALCOHOL CONSUMED WERE CRAAAAZY.
Liquid courage makes furries a little too personal sometimes. Please, if you drink at a con, know your limits and please turn in when you catch yourself maybe being obnoxious. Your filters being gone sometimes is funny and make you say funny things, but please check yo'self before you wreck yo'self [or someone else wrecks you].

In the end, would I go again?
Honestly, I have mixed feelings about it.
There was actually a lot of unpleasant and generally disturbing things that happened and could have potentially happened if I hadn't been looking out cautiously. From the perspective of a girl, it honestly probably won't be worth risking myself to go again.
Not to say that other girls shouldn't go, but be fuckin' smart. You know? There was a lot going on, and some of it really was sketchy as hell.
Did I report it to con ops? You bet I did! Did much come of it? Mmmmm... I think they were busy with other things, and I didn't see any difference in reporting it. I didn't want people to think of me as "that girl" who cried wolf [GET IT?] every time someone so much as made eyes at me, and, truly, it wasn't like that anyway. I genuinely felt that a couple individuals were overstepping boundaries, even when I asked them to stop.
I dunno.

As a footnote, let me be clear that I had 90% of a great experience! However, the 10% is enough to deter me from going again.
I didn't dress promiscuously, I behaved myself with alcohol and turned in when I caught myself being obnoxious, and.. I dunno.

I'd love to hear from other girls who have been to con! Obviously, not all stories are going to be bad, so I welcome nice stories, too! But it'd be reassuring to hear that I'm not a paranoid crazy-pants when it comes to safety.

Ladies: Tricks, tips, and advice?
I swear to all deities above and below that may or may not exist, though: it will be a sad, sad day if someone posts "If you're a girl, don't go to furry conventions alone, just to be safe!"


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## monochromatic-dragon (Sep 20, 2014)

You went alone, that was your main mistake probably. A lone person is an easy target, since no-one is there to back you up. I've heard of horror stories at fur cons of 50 year old men groping at under-aged women... bleh. Makes me have second thoughts about meeting with any furries IRL, let alone going to a convention or furmeet. I would never go to one alone!


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## Trpdwarf (Sep 20, 2014)

It doesn't matter if you are male or female. When you go to cons it attracts good folk, and bad folk, and the bad folk tend to over-step their boundaries. I've been to cons several times, staffed at several, and have not had any experiences as a female that would push me to not want to go. Have I been hit on? Yes. Have people pushed some boundaries? Yes. But you deal with it, you confront people who are behaving poorly in a proper way.


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## Lobar (Sep 20, 2014)

This shit happens at pretty much _every_ convention regardless of genre.  I remember when it became an issue at TAM a few years ago and people started calling for them to put in a harassment policy.  But because it's a male-dominated con (like pretty much all cons), there ended up being a huge pushback against doing anything about it at all, and so they didn't.  This will likely be an issue everywhere for the foreseeable future until guys can pull their heads from their asses.


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## Misomie (Sep 20, 2014)

It also depends on how you tell someone to back off. If you say it mildly or jokingly, it's often taken as "please continue." Saying it with a serious face and a threatening tone often keep people away. Don't be afraid to "be a jerk."


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## Lobar (Sep 21, 2014)

Misomie said:


> It also depends on how you tell someone to back off. If you say it mildly or jokingly, it's often taken as "please continue." Saying it with a serious face and a threatening tone often keep people away. Don't be afraid to "be a jerk."



And then they whine to everyone about what a goddamned bitch you are.


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## Harbinger (Sep 21, 2014)

I thought about 90% of furries were ghey so you wouldnt think this'd happen :V


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## Misomie (Sep 21, 2014)

Lobar said:


> And then they whine to everyone about what a goddamned bitch you are.


I HATE THIS SO MUCH! First I'm all, "Please knock that off." When that is ignored it becomes, "Knock that off now." Then the offender is all, "You could have just said that in the first place, no need to be a jerk." Ticks. me. off. It's not even congoers that have bugged me butt normal everyday people.


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## CaptainCool (Sep 21, 2014)

There is always a tiny bit of truth to stereotypes.
Some furries are really awful people. So when they go to a con and get shitfaced, naturally they are gonna turn into even more annoying shitbags.
And with so many gay and bisexual people in the community I suppose this warning should definitely go out to both guys _and_ girls. NO ONE IS SAFE! O_O


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## Batty Krueger (Sep 21, 2014)

Hehehehe, butt.


A con is really no different than your common house party, other than the furry stuff. There are always gunna be creepers about no matter where you are or where you go.


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## SharkCookieAdopts (Sep 21, 2014)

monochromatic-dragon said:


> You went alone, that was your main mistake probably. A lone person is an easy target, since no-one is there to back you up. I've heard of horror stories at fur cons of 50 year old men groping at under-aged women... bleh. Makes me have second thoughts about meeting with any furries IRL, let alone going to a convention or furmeet. I would never go to one alone!



I don't think I should be required to have a friend and/or "bodyguard" with me in order to attend and enjoy a convention. I have been to anime and comic conventions and have never legitimately feared for my safety like I did at a furry convention.
Take a peak at the last sentence in the original post.



Trpdwarf said:


> It doesn't matter if you are male or female. When you go to cons it attracts good folk, and bad folk, and the bad folk tend to over-step their boundaries. I've been to cons several times, staffed at several, and have not had any experiences as a female that would push me to not want to go. Have I been hit on? Yes. Have people pushed some boundaries? Yes. But you deal with it, you confront people who are behaving poorly in a proper way.



I reiterated that there are bad eggs at any and all conventions you will probably attend, but I found it was most prominent and unnerving at a furry convention.
It's not a matter of, "Oh! Boys are hitting on me and I don't like that!" or being dramatic. People following me up to my room, trying to be coaxed into drinking questionable things [I decided not to drink anything other than what I had poured for myself or gotten directly from the bar], aggressive advances [ie. pushing me onto a bed in a different room where I was hanging out], etc.
"Pushing boundaries" is a lax term.



Misomie said:


> It also depends on how you tell someone to back off. If you say it mildly or jokingly, it's often taken as "please continue." Saying it with a serious face and a threatening tone often keep people away. Don't be afraid to "be a jerk."



Haha! I totally get that!
I actually was very firm and non-joking when I realized that people seriously would not give it a rest and couldn't take a friendly "please stop" or a hint that I was uncomfortable. 
However, yeah, as someone down the thread noted, I got called out as "THAT GIRL IS SUCH A BITCH GEEZ!" 
Though I'd rather be a bitch than let someone I don't even know get handsy with me.

Also, the theme of "We're open people! That's just how we are!" was thrown out at me more than once. Yeez!


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## Rechan (Sep 21, 2014)

Does this harassment happen out in the open in con spaces (Dealer's room, panels, zoo) or is it more a problem in the bar/isolated places like a room party or the elevators? I never see folks drinking or harassing in the former, but I know that room parties are drunken playgrounds. It sucks that any space isn't safe, but are there more risky areas?


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Sep 21, 2014)

Lobar said:


> And then they whine to everyone about what a goddamned bitch you are.



And then they become a MRA.


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## monochromatic-dragon (Sep 21, 2014)

SharkCookieAdopts said:


> I don't think I should be required to have a friend and/or "bodyguard" with me in order to attend and enjoy a convention. I have been to anime and comic conventions and have never legitimately feared for my safety like I did at a furry convention.
> Take a peak at the last sentence in the original post.



I agree, however that cannot be the case so long as certain people behave in such an awful manner. Your experience at the con was unpleasant enough to deter you from ever wanting to go to one again. Wouldn't it have been better to avoid that unpleasant feeling all together? 

There always will be perverts at conventions, no matter how things might get better in the future. So better to use the buddy system and be safe than become a victim because you chose to put yourself in a situation where you became vulnerable to these attacks.


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## Chibs (Sep 21, 2014)

monochromatic-dragon said:


> You went alone, that was your main mistake probably. A lone person is an easy target, since no-one is there to back you up. I've heard of horror stories at fur cons of 50 year old men groping at under-aged women... bleh. Makes me have second thoughts about meeting with any furries IRL, let alone going to a convention or furmeet. I would never go to one alone!



No, it wasn't her mistake. Anyone can go anywhere they want to (unless there was an age requirement), regardless of gender. People should know how to be kind to others and it's not her fault they don't. I swear if I ever went to one (which I don't really have interest in doing) and I was being harassed...you don't want to know.


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## SharkCookieAdopts (Sep 21, 2014)

Rechan said:


> Does this harassment happen out in the open in con spaces (Dealer's room, panels, zoo) or is it more a problem in the bar/isolated places like a room party or the elevators? I never see folks drinking or harassing in the former, but I know that room parties are drunken playgrounds. It sucks that any space isn't safe, but are there more risky areas?



I leave room parties and stuff if things get too strange, but the harassment I'm concerned about happened in hallways and in the lobby. 
I kind of expect for things to be a bit more untamed in territory where there's drinkage and is a designated "party zone", and that's cool.  It's be expected that weird things happen in a place where people are drinking heavily.
It's a big issue because I knew [or thought] I could go to more open spaces to escape the madness. That did not go as planned, though...




monochromatic-dragon said:


> I agree, however that cannot be the case so long as certain people behave in such an awful manner. Your experience at the con was unpleasant enough to deter you from ever wanting to go to one again. Wouldn't it have been better to avoid that unpleasant feeling all together?
> 
> There always will be perverts at conventions, no matter how things might get better in the future. So better to use the buddy system and be safe than become a victim because you chose to put yourself in a situation where you became vulnerable to these attacks.



That... doesn't make much sense.
It's akin to "If you don't want to get harassed, DON'T GO OUTSIDE!" Or maybe, "if you do go outside, take protection!" Which is messed up in itself.
I, and every other person, regardless of their gender, should feel safe and secure at a con and in the general environment without having to take an "escort" with them. I could understand your logic if I was in the ghetto or a third-world country, but I'm at a convention where I just want to hang out, make friends, have fun, and indulge in all the events the con has to offer! If I can't even walk around by myself in a "safe space" like a convention center, it becomes a gigantic problem and it needs to be addressed.


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## monochromatic-dragon (Sep 21, 2014)

You and Chibs are thinking IDEALISTICALLY, not REALISTICALLY. Should you have to trust someone you've never met before with your own safety? No, you should take those matters into your own hands. And the way you do that is by avoiding unsafe situations, such as going to a furry convention (which are known for having creeps) alone.  Of course harassment should not happen, but it does. I am not saying that it is her fault that she was harassed or that her harassers are blameless.


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## Chaossal (Sep 22, 2014)

I've been to two or three furry conventions and as a female I myself have never had any problems and always had a fun time and had fun chatting and meeting new people. I'd have to say furry conventions seem a lot safer than anime conventions, at one anime con I went to this guy followed me around all saturday and he was all sweaty and kinda gross smelling and when my phone died around midnight he said he could take me to his car to charge it, said no thanksxD lol no bro don't feel like getting raped tonightXD 

also at the same con the next year someone was raped o.o
and at another anime con a guy keeped hitting on me and kept trying to touch me not inappropriately just keep trying to grab my hand or my arm or press into my side a bit and kept trying to play footsie with me -.-   

of course I still want to go to more anime cons as I just love conventions there always really fun no need for a few creeps to ruin my fun 
once at a anime room party a guy asked me to tase him in the ass with my taser....so I didxD though I made sure it was just a little touch with it so that it would not be too bad xP


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## OceanOrca (Sep 22, 2014)

I've been to PAX Prime twice, and I go to LAN Parties with my best friends(whom are men), but I think I have a different position because I'm lesbian and kinda dress like a guy all the time anyways.
I don't get hit or eyed down. But even so I carry a sheath knife with me everywhere. I've been raped twice(unrelated to cons), and I wouldn't risk being cornered and defenseless again.
The only time I don't bring my knife with me is when I'm with my friends(male friends) because people either get the idea of "she's with that guy" or "she's not alone, he's with her."
It's kinda sad that us girls have to be this way, we have to find some sort of bodyguard or safety in such away that might even require lethal force.


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## NightsOfStars (Sep 22, 2014)

I've never been to a furrycon, but this year I went to (my first con ever) the Salt Lake Comic Con in the Salt Palace and it was great! There were so many costumes and nice people! Lots of people will pose for pictures if you ask them to, and someone even asked to take a picture of me in my Matt Smith 11th Doctor costume (from Doctor Who). I was so proud! Of course, I went with friends, but I spent a lot of time walking alone, being slightly separated from my friends, or standing in closely packed lines. 

However, everyone seemed nice and since Salt Lake Comic Con has a Kid Con section for younger comic fans there aren't many creeps around because if they had crappy security while small children were walking around in there there'd be hell to pay from all those protective parents. Also, a woman I met was even so nice as to pay for my slice of pizza when my card was denied and I didn't have enough cash to pay for it. ^^ I *did *see a dude with some beer, but he was in a Clone Trooper outfit from Star Wars (so it probably would've been hard for him to attack anyone anyway), and even he wasn't really drunk. Either way, I did actually wear a skirt (which I never do and that typically makes you a target because a skirt is easer to lift than taking off jeans is) and still felt totally safe.

Then again, I'm not exactly attractive and I've been told that I look very angry all the time, even when smiling. I'm also rather flat chested and I'm very tall, so I don't think I make much of a target because my boobs are tiny and I tend to loom over most people (especially since I was wearing 4 inch heels that day). Tall people look more confident, even when slouching, so we don't really exude that "victim" sort of vibe. I also have exceptionally bony knuckles because I'm skinny (don't know if any creep who might have been there would have noticed though), so if someone did attack me I'd most likely punch them out of gut reaction and it would most definitely hurt to take bones to the face, so yeah. Also, I feel relatively safe on my own because even though I'm not too strong I happen to know the basic weak spots of the human body in general (as well as gender specific points) and I know how to use almost anything (including my phone and iPod) as a weapon. I'm also highly aggressive, a red head, and part Norwegian, German, Irish, and Native American, so attacking me would probably be a bad idea.


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## darkw0lf2k1 (Sep 23, 2014)

This coming from a guy but this advise is more so intended for everyone. Couple things I've gone by and haven't had any issues when I follow them, follow your gut feeling with situations and people. If it doesn't feel right get out of it or change the situation. I like to keep things to the KIS method (Keep It Simple) I go in with the mentality of hope for the best but plan for the worst. The only times I've had a problem is when I haven't followed my gut feeling or staying on guard when my gut feeling was off. I've gone to cons on my own and it somewhat forces you to be more outgoing and talk to more people. There have been times I wished I had someone go with me, then again there is a reason the saying "safety in numbers" is very true. Take my advice for what its worth.


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## Maelstrom Eyre (Sep 23, 2014)

Ideally, it really _shouldn't_ matter what a person's gender is when it comes to being "safe" at a Con - there really should _not_ be a reason for a female to feel threatened, stalked, or harassed just for walking around vendor tables or looking at art, or even on a dance floor.  A woman _should_ be able to go into a public area and not worry about someone trying to slip something into her drink, or follow her back to her room or vehicle.

Sadly, that "ideal" just doesn't always play out in the real world.  

There is always some dirtbag who thinks he is entitled to grope anyone he finds attractive, and who does not understand that this behavior is very, very creepy and unwanted, totally socially inappropriate, and (in some cases, depending on the extent) illegal.  

There is always some socially awkward guy who doesn't really understand body language, and thinks that making eye contact or exchanging a bit of polite, friendly conversation with a female automatically means she has any sexual interest or attraction to him.

I can sympathize with being socially awkward.  I struggle with that, too.   

Having said that, if he tries to get too "friendly" with her and she rejects him, he blames her for "leading" him. He thinks he's just being a "nice guy" and he really has no clue that his behavior is just. . .well. . .creepy. 

I haven't been to a furry con, but I've been to some other cons in my younger years.  Based on a lot of the things I've read from other women, about the creepy stuff that has gone on and feeling "unsafe" at cons, I can understand why it would not feel like a "safe" place for a woman - especially a young woman - to go on her own.

There is a lot of "leering" done by men in the direction of women.  Not just cons, but in general.  Walking down the street or waiting for a bus or going to a concert or party. 

A few women may enjoy it.  A few women may pretend to enjoy it so they don't hurt your feelings.

But a lot of us really don't like it.  

You may not think you're doing it, guys.  Or you may not think we notice.  But we do.  

And unless it's already been established that we're into some kind of predator/prey fetish that we want to act out with you, please don't do it.


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## Ozriel (Oct 6, 2014)

NightsOfStars said:


> I've never been to a furrycon, but this year I went to (my first con ever) the Salt Lake Comic Con in the Salt Palace and it was great! There were so many costumes and nice people! Lots of people will pose for pictures if you ask them to, and someone even asked to take a picture of me in my Matt Smith 11th Doctor costume (from Doctor Who). I was so proud! Of course, I went with friends, but I spent a lot of time walking alone, being slightly separated from my friends, or standing in closely packed lines.
> 
> However, everyone seemed nice and since Salt Lake Comic Con has a Kid Con section for younger comic fans there aren't many creeps around because if they had crappy security while small children were walking around in there there'd be hell to pay from all those protective parents. Also, a woman I met was even so nice as to pay for my slice of pizza when my card was denied and I didn't have enough cash to pay for it. ^^ I *did *see a dude with some beer, but he was in a Clone Trooper outfit from Star Wars (so it probably would've been hard for him to attack anyone anyway), and even he wasn't really drunk. Either way, I did actually wear a skirt (which I never do and that typically makes you a target because a skirt is easer to lift than taking off jeans is) and still felt totally safe.



As a tall woman myself (6'2"), it's divided on how men see tall women. However in my friend's case, you have guys who see shorter women as "meek" and "weak" and therefore the ideal "They won't do anything", types. And they tend to be the victims of harassment at conventions. So the neck beards will look to that for easy prey.
Though I saw one guy make that mistake at a con and soon had the 501st Legion on him.  

Tall women can be mixed, but you do have men who see taller women as "emasculating", so they are sometimes avoided. I rarely get hit on because I'm tall and somewhat built like "Xena". It's kind of discouraging if I want to date, but at the same time, I rarely have to worry about being stalked unless they want to risk taking on a MMA. :V


Long story short, anyone can be a victim at cons, and males at furry conventions are not excluded either. There are so many harassment stories from men that went to AC that the Feminazi crowd of tumblr would shrug it off and say "Serves you right". Usually it's the either the short and thin boys and the ones that have no clue where to go. There's a lot of the latter.

Anyways, when you go to a con, keep your eyes peeled and be wary of your surroundings. And do not be afraid to talk to staffers.


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## Trpdwarf (Oct 6, 2014)

SharkCookieAdopts said:


> I reiterated that there are bad eggs at any and all conventions you will probably attend, but I found it was most prominent and unnerving at a furry convention.
> It's not a matter of, "Oh! Boys are hitting on me and I don't like that!" or being dramatic. People following me up to my room, trying to be coaxed into drinking questionable things [I decided not to drink anything other than what I had poured for myself or gotten directly from the bar], aggressive advances [ie. pushing me onto a bed in a different room where I was hanging out], etc.
> "Pushing boundaries" is a lax term.



Well it's a shorter way to put it then a long tl;dr of what I have experienced. If people are being that aggressive it may be a good idea to report that to con ops(I don't know if you did or not). Give them a name, or a description, or a badge name. I feel like a lot of this ends up continuing because people don't want to be "That" person who reports a creeper. If no one reports the creeper, he's going to keep creeping. It's absolutely necessary even if it seems like the people you report it to don't care. If they seriously 100 percent don't give two shits about reports involving stalkers following people up to rooms, that a red flag to not come back to that con again or aggressive pursue change.

The problem in this community is that we still get residual side effects from the complete bullshit that the "Acceptance and tolerance" movement that hit our ranks at some point in the past. This has led to still existing faction of furries who refuse to judge others, or stand up to them when they are stepping out of bounds. I saw this quite a bit at a larger con I no longer attend. People demean behaviors as harmless because they are afraid to judge another human being. It gets down to that whole nerd fallacy of having been judged in the past, and so not wanting to do that to others now.

The problem is this creates a hot-bed for all sorts of bad behavior, including the stalking, and inappropriate moves on both genders.

When I attend a large anime con in my area, I always tend to feel completely safe. Rarely if ever do I come across legitimate examples of the kind of behavior outlined in this thread. At FAU I cannot recall ever dealing with it. Large fur con? Those tend to become straight up booze-cons...and that's one thing you can just learn to avoid. If a con gets a reputation as drunk con, it's probably a good idea to avoid it.


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## Troj (Oct 6, 2014)

Trpdwarf said:


> Those tend to become straight up booze-cons...and that's one thing you can just learn to avoid. If a con gets a reputation as drunk con, it's probably a good idea to avoid it.



Wise words, and I think it applies to more than just cons.


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## Illuminaughty (Oct 7, 2014)

I think bottom line everyone can agree that while cons may have entertainment value, and can be great places for meeting like minded individuals, you should always be on your guard irregardless of gender, age, or anything else.

Additionally, do not *ever* be afraid to report someone. Ever. If someone is making you uncomfortable or otherwise violating your personal boundaries, you have every right to report them. It's far better to be the 'person who reported someone' than the 'person who got molested'. In fact, being that person will typically get you in with crowds that are more akin to you, and therefor increase your personal safety, as well as the safety of the ones around you.

Don't be afraid to be stern and cold to anyone who violates your personal space. If you make it clear you *do* not, and *will* not tolerate such behaviour, you're less likely to be accosted by such people in the future.

And as an afterthought, it is always best to carry a concealed weapon of some sort. Personal, non-lethal weapons such as pepper spray or a taser can be life saving. Even a personal alarm to call for help when you need it is better than nothing.


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## Hisu (Oct 10, 2014)

If I may. OP, you made the wrong assumption and it backfired.
Furry conventions are NOT different from any other massive social event. Mind, furry fandom puts a lot of emphasis on all things primal (yes, I know it's not just that, but hey, it's no secret that the larger the community, the more degraded the concept it gathers around gets), so it should be no wonder that horny shitheads are more visible here, just as aggressive prats are more visible in anime fandom. Furry convention is no different from some trance open-air fest; the only difference is that it doesn't involve as much drugs and gets you a higher chance to meet someone you'll have something to talk about with.
Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit. But only a bit. You're just as safe here as you are on some harvest festival among rednecks. Maybe a bit safer, but don't count on it, no matter your sex and/or gender.


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## Lobar (Oct 10, 2014)

Hisu said:


> You're just as safe here as you are on some harvest festival among rednecks.



Really not selling your argument well here at all.


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