# Clearly FA has a problem, what are we going to do to improve it?



## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

I normally don't like posting on the forums here because quite frankly it's filled with ass hats and bigots alike. However, seeing as the main website is down, and there is a lot of discussion about it here (Naturally), I decided to throw in a few words myself.

FA has a horrible history, and there is no dodging that. The reputation FA holds is hilariously pathetic, and it's sad to see that with such a huge community still barely anything is done to improve its reputation, the quality of the website, and bettering the community (As in, the site's members). Not to mention the crappy appearance/layout the website has since it started, aside from the recent navigation bar placed at the top of the website (Smooth move guys, smooth). While other websites are trying to seriously update and better the experience they bring, FA's staff/team just kinda twiddle's their thumbs, hoping their members will stay because it has more people (Somehow).

Point is I'm getting really tired and impatient, like many others, with the constant problems FA has, and the outages. I rely on FA's community for activity for commissions, streams, and other events/activities. Sadly, that's the only reason I'm here, because I loathe the website's structure and its staff (To be blunt because I keep noticing how immature, impatient, and selfish they keep acting over the ages). But hey, there must be some good in the community here, right? So when is the staff here gonna bulk up, take responsibility, and do something about the -very- obvious problems here? Mainly the site performance and database issues? When? Because so far, it's been years.

Now some may say "It's because the staff are volunteers" or "They don't have much money, etc etc". Then how on earth do they manage to fund large FA events year round, have tons of people donate money and hardware to them, and still not even remotely improve the website's functionality? And the staff recruitment has me utterly baffled because it hasn't really helped at all from what I can see; it's just got more strangers running the website how they individually see fit (I've encountered quite a few staff members in a very unhappy way already; they're not very respectful). The reason I'm pointing out all of this outright is because I'm frustrated and irate to see such a large community run by amateurs, and if you don't think that you are amateurs, then prove me wrong. Please, prove that I'm wrong. I would love for you to.

The website has a shitty foundation, and always has. It's barely worked accordingly, and the guy who originally created it is still being a bit of a hog over the coding aspect of the website. I say we need a whole new team (And I mean completely new), or at least we need to seriously change the way things work around here.

Grow a pair, and just fix the site already. It's not -that- difficult with all of the "hard work" you say you already have done, and with such a huge community willing to help. It's been years since the website was decently ran. Get it together, and fix the problems (Preferably before they show up).


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## Reykreyth (Dec 16, 2013)

This looks a bit like a restatement of several other posts here, albeit a lot more abrasive. There's nothing here actually stating how to improve the site... rather, you mention "Just fix it," and "The staff are terrible at what they do."

There's plenty of people saying what you're already saying, with actual suggestions on how to get things running smoother. Did this really need its own thread?


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

Reykreyth said:


> This looks a bit like a restatement of several other posts here, albeit a lot more abrasive. There's nothing here actually stating how to improve the site... rather, you mention "Just fix it," and "The staff are terrible at what they do."
> 
> There's plenty of people saying what you're already saying, with actual suggestions on how to get things running smoother. Did this really need its own thread?


You're expecting me to point out specific ways to help the website even though I have no access to its software, code, etc. Kinda hard. 

If you want a generalization, because that's just about all I can give, then here's a few tips:
-Delete and "clean out" users who have been on for months, if not a year, that have no posts, no favs, nothing. Because FA has a crapload of accounts that are never, ever used.
-The website itself looks pretty shotty as far as coding goes from what I can see (Which, like I said, is pretty limited). Clearly what they have been doing for years isn't working. Not to mention, I really think the website just needs an overhaul. But I digress.
-Remove the delete submission icons from user's messages, including deleted journals. Specifically the deleted icons I see in my favorites. I'm sure tons and tons of those bog the website down at least a little. It's already annoying enough to see a blank icon in my favorites.
-Let comments be -deleted- and not -hidden- by the page's owner. Seriously, I'm sure that would help.
-By default, have the notes inbox purged after so many messages (Like after the 500th note for instance), and let users who don't like that uncheck the feature themselves. This way lots of messages are removed automatically, and if some don't like it, they can disable that feature.
-Don't let messages get over a certain number. For instance, I highly doubt someone with 5,000 submissions to look through will actually look through them. Everyone I know just purges the entire thing. So, would it help to stop getting messages after a certain high number? Or better yet, after so many, start deleting the older messages automatically as new ones come through. Another way to help performance.

These among many are simple tips that could go a long way after thousands of users. It's not hard for a web designer, a programmer, and a maintenance team to figure out things like this after so many years of working to help the website.


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## Danjen (Dec 16, 2013)

Doesn't matter, suggestions aren't going to be implemented. There's never announcements or changelogs for backends updates, so I assume nothing is ever done.
If you remember good ol' Eevee (before they were permabanned), they discovered a laundry list of security flaws, and to my knowledge, none have ever been addressed.

I agree with what OP says as you never seem to hear of the good that is done, so of course people will focus on the bad. It's just a shame that sites like Weasyl, Pixiv, Inkbunny, and even Tumblr are far more sophisticated with practically nil downtime. Weren't we promised folders a few years ago?



> -Let comments be -deleted- and not -hidden- by the page's owner. Seriously, I'm sure that would help.


Trivial change: if you're not a mod/admin, completely hide the comment. Given furries' propensity for drama, mods need a paper trail for evidence.

I wouldn't prune users for the most part - I've seen people return after 3-5 years. Agreed on the low activity - suggested criteria being more than 90 days old, without logging in, 0 submissions, 0 journals, no comments given ever, and with no watches and faves added in that time. It would only hit a very specific group, likely name squatters.


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

Honestly if I had a website like FA, and it is -clearly- having problems, I would stop doing what I'm doing, and figure out where I went wrong, and go over it again with a new mindset. It's been years, like I said, and still we are getting no where. FA is the same as it was from day 1 practically. So clearly the staff, mainly Dragoneer and Yak since they're the only original ones still around that I know of, need to make some -serious- changes across the board (Figuratively). Another thing, the website is about the community, but I have yet after years of being on to see the staff actually -listen- to what anyone has to say. It goes through one ear and out the other. If it were me, I'd stop and listen, because the community, the members, are what matter. That's why the site is existing.


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## STrRedWolf (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm going to take this from a pure technical view (being a multi-language programmer).

Given the amount of submissions, journals, notes, and notifications, the database itself spans several gigs of space.  This comes from a theoretical look at what FA's SQL database looks like (they stated they're using MySQL 5.x with the InnoDB backing store).

"Just fix it" really means optimizing the database and code.  This takes a long time because you have to pour through the code and database in hand, sometimes having a hard copy.  Yes, I've done this before, many a time, on my own and other's code.  It's hard, and it's not something you do on a live system -- which is paramount to _live brain surgery_.

Now, I don't know the real structure of FA's code and database. I won't be surprised if there's some items that ram up against MySQL, or some that can be done exclusively in MySQL but are being done in PHP/Python/Perl/etc.

There is one good thing, though:  The notifications are being trimmed after 90 days.


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

STrRedWolf said:


> I'm going to take this from a pure technical view (being a multi-language programmer).
> 
> Given the amount of submissions, journals, notes, and notifications, the database itself spans several gigs of space.  This comes from a theoretical look at what FA's SQL database looks like (they stated they're using MySQL 5.x with the InnoDB backing store).
> 
> ...



I am a programmer, a server administrator, and a web designer. I say simple things like "fix it" in the original post because the staff should have the knowledge and know-how to do simple updates, clean out things that do not work, fix simple code here and there, and so on. If they don't know how to do that, then clearly we need a new staff. I think they have the ability to make FA a splendid, error-free website if they -really- wanted. If they -really- tried, they could. But for some reason, they haven't after all this time.

And it's good to hear the notifications are being trimmed down. That's a good move to make. I was unaware of this new feature.


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## Danjen (Dec 16, 2013)

The problem with a long-lived website is that the coding they did back then are guaranteed to be lazy and archaic by modern standards. This is a fact (not limited to this website, either) otherwise software maintenance wouldn't be a thing.

The most pragmatic solution would be to tear it down, start over again, then populate user data, but unfortunately if you did that, you would get Weasyl. I don't think it's a coincidence their default style and appearance is reminiscent of a more modernized FA.


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

Danjen said:


> The problem with a long-lived website is that the coding they did back then are guaranteed to be lazy and archaic by modern standards. This is a fact (not limited to this website, either) otherwise software maintenance wouldn't be a thing.
> 
> The most pragmatic solution would be to tear it down, start over again, then populate user data, but unfortunately if you did that, you would get Weasyl. I don't think it's a coincidence their default style and appearance is reminiscent of a more modernized FA.



Wait, you're accusing Weasyl of using FA's style/layout? Because to me Weasyl is a lot different...especially the profile layouts. They are completely different.

As far as the first thing you mentioned, it's a problem none the less, and it needs to be fixed. If they produced a shotty website from the beginning, and only let it get bigger and harder to fix/maintain, then clearly it's a problem and needs to be dealt with one way or another. It's like building a huge house on a crappy foundation while expecting it to last and continuing to band-aid it constantly. It'll never, ever work, and it'll continue to be run improperly. 

If they need to strip the entire website down, then that's something they should consider. Sure it'll suck ass right now redoing it all, but in the long-run, it'll improve their website's purpose and experience ten-fold. They could keep FA up for now while creating a brand new FA on the side. Migrate user names, passwords, and basic information, then have the users do the rest. It takes time, but it -can- be done, and people need to realize that.


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## Danjen (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I remember making an account shortly after their beta ended, but I remember it felt pretty similar to me. I could be mistaken as this was a few years ago, my memory may be fuzzy.

I've a feeling a total site rebuild won't happen, because my impression on FA is that it's only popular because it has a large userbase (go figure). That would mean if everyone had to reupload everything, it would be like starting over, and if that was the case, I think they would probably haemhorrage users left and right.


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

Danjen said:


> I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I remember making an account shorting after their beta started, and it felt pretty similar to me. So ... this was a few years ago, my memory is fuzzy.
> 
> I've a feeling a rebuild won't happen because my take on FA is that it's only popular because it has a large userbase (go figure). That would mean if everyone had to remake everything, it would be like starting over, and if that was the case, I think they would probably haemhorrage users left and right.


I'm sure if FA tried, they could pull it off. Make a new site, then slowly migrate everything over onto the new one as far as user information, submissions, and journals go. With how big FA is now, I highly doubt everyone will just drop and leave at the sight of a new FA. Hell, I would love to see it happen. 

But that's up to them. Point is they -have- the ability to do what they need to do, but clearly they haven't. We need a more dedicated staff to put it bluntly.


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## Danne (Dec 16, 2013)

The problem with FurAffinity is the technologies it was built on.

When FA was first created a number of years back, PHP and MySQL was the obvious choice to build dynamic websites on. The alternatives, even though some were better, were either not well supported or had high total costs of ownership. So it is only natural that a startup site like FurAffinity would choose these technologies. I would have done the very same back in those days were I to create something as ambitious as FA.

But lately, these technologies have started showing their age. A lot of big websites have been trying to move off of it, migrating in baby steps to better technologies (such as Ruby on Rails, Python, ASP.NET, MSSQL, PostgreSQL, etc). Even Facebook, that was also originally built completely of PHP and MySQL, had to have their entire backend re-coded in programming languages and database systems that were more scalable for their extreme high needs. Their frontend was kept in PHP since it still functions well enough for that only. 

What FA needs to do in order to stop these problems from happening is allocate a few months' or even a year's worth of development moving the entire site to a different DBMS and a different programming language, so that it can be more scalable and so that these downtimes can be less frequent. Yes, whilst it is true that you can certainly have something built in PHP and MySQL remain highly functional, it becomes a maintenance nightmare when the site gets as large as FA has and you will see these technologies stress under pressure.

I'll probably get flamed for this post by people who are stuck in their old ways, and advocate these dysfunctional technologies, but whatever.


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## Danjen (Dec 16, 2013)

Actually I'm curious, what exactly is the bottleneck that PHP/MySQL causes? Why would Ruby or Python be a better choice?
I'm also a bit of a programmer, but I'm not particularly fond of web integration.

I remember an old suggestion was to open source the website, too. That would be interesting.


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

Danne said:


> The problem with FurAffinity is the technologies it was built on.
> 
> When FA was first created a number of years back, PHP and MySQL was the obvious choice to build dynamic websites on. The alternatives, even though some were better, were either not well supported or had high total costs of ownership. So it is only natural that a startup site like FurAffinity would choose these technologies. I would have done the very same back in those days were I to create something as ambitious as FA.
> 
> ...



While I don't think they necessarily need to change from MySQL and PHP, I do agree that they need to take some time to produce something new. They should gather up a development team and have it; make something stable and renounced. Then when they have a good touch on things, start migrating the old FA onto the new one using the NEW software. I'm just wondering when they'll actually commit to something that big when it is obvious to them that it needs to happen.


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## lolox (Dec 16, 2013)

Danne said:


> migrating in baby steps to better technologies  (such as Ruby on Rails, Python, ASP.NET, MSSQL, PostgreSQL,  etc).



You'd run into scalability problems with any of these above mentioned  technologies. Just switching scripting language or database won't make a  site scalable.

There are some options out there that can handle a lot of complexity for  you regarding scalability, for example Google App Engine which abstracts the whole thing with servers completely. But most of  the time it's all up to you to actually design the web application in  such a way that it'll work on several servers simultaneously. That has a  lot more to do with thought, planning and modelling than it has to do  with choice of technology. Turning a single-server application into a  multiple-server one will probably require a lot of refactoring. But it  all depends, of course.


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## Charlie_Kitsune (Dec 16, 2013)

Well, i've sent an idea by PM to the net-cat: SQL Query: make an automated query for every user that *is or not active* past 30 days, *to auto-delete[nuke]* their submission notifications that *HAVE different Type*  than General Furry Art (Tame) and (Adult), if people seem to tag their  main fetish type of art, they will look through Browse option or look  for tag in Search->date->desc, and i know there are a lot of the  General furry art, that is why its harder to find something from that  tag.


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 16, 2013)

Do many of realize that nearly all of the cost of maintaining FA, including bandwidth costs comes straight out of Dragoneer's own pocket? He spends his own money every month to financially take care of this site? This is an answer to the OP. How does this site continue to run when we don't really have a lot of money coming in? It's because the owner continues to pay for it. I will agree FA does have a problem to some degree in that there are many changes to be had to structure and layout. 

Unfortunately what a lot of users don't see is the intense amount of work going on behind the scenes to fix things that have been happening over the last year. Unfortunately you all don't get to see the amount of work going on with coding and the future of FA. I'm sorry that the only time your attention gets zero'd in on this matter is when something unfortunate like this situation right now happens.

EDIT: *Seriously people how many times across multiple threads have I said this? If you want to be able to to talk about this you need to stay on topic, and keep it productive. Do not get people's threads locked because you want to start trouble. If I have to delete another post like what was just posted, the people who do it will be suspended instantly. Do I make myself clear?*


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## Raphial Hebert (Dec 16, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> EDIT: *Seriously people how many times across multiple threads have I said this? If you want to be able to to talk about this you need to stay on topic, and keep it productive. Do not get people's threads locked because you want to start trouble. If I have to delete another post like what was just posted, the people who do it will be suspended instantly. Do I make myself clear?*



Did I miss something?

EDIT: Nevermind. I see.


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## Mali-Kyte (Dec 16, 2013)

Maybe now other sites will get much needed attention. I'll still use FA for a few things but this is one to many times now. I have been on this site for 7 years and nothing has changed. Maybe if we got a TEAM of coders that know what they are doing we wouldn't have so many problems. Instead when something goes down we are kept in the dark and given short and sweet updates. 

Why not give us something to look at ? I see that quite a few people are good with coding on here so if they can help then why not let them see some physcal proof on how it's written. Or what sort of issue has ocurred? You have a website full of people WILLING to take time out of their lives to help you admins out for free. Yet we are being told to knock off the complaining?

Yeah I'll probably only be using FA for updates only after this.


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## Ozriel (Dec 16, 2013)

Danne said:


> The problem with FurAffinity is the technologies it was built on.
> 
> When FA was first created a number of years back, PHP and MySQL was the obvious choice to build dynamic websites on. The alternatives, even though some were better, were either not well supported or had high total costs of ownership. So it is only natural that a startup site like FurAffinity would choose these technologies. I would have done the very same back in those days were I to create something as ambitious as FA.
> 
> ...




The way I see it, it is like that old townhouse from the late 1800s and trying to build it to code. You have to make sure you do not ruin too much of the original foundation because it could cause serious issues. You have to be careful with the wiring to rig it with electricity, vents if you are trying to put in centralized air, and proper maintenance to the pipes.

But stuff happens unexpectedly that can delay the restoration to a building and prevent you from getting it built on time, or major setbacks that require you to pay more for more supplies and equipment to make sure that the house won't explode.

Maybe switching would be a good idea, but what happens if something like this will happen again and longer?


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## RyuuYouki (Dec 16, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> Do many of realize that nearly all of the cost of maintaining FA, including bandwidth costs comes straight out of Dragoneer's own pocket? He spends his own money every month to financially take care of this site? This is an answer to the OP. How does this site continue to run when we don't really have a lot of money coming in? It's because the owner continues to pay for it. I will agree FA does have a problem to some degree in that there are many changes to be had to structure and layout.
> 
> Unfortunately what a lot of users don't see is the intense amount of work going on behind the scenes to fix things that have been happening over the last year. Unfortunately you all don't get to see the amount of work going on with coding and the future of FA. I'm sorry that the only time your attention gets zero'd in on this matter is when something unfortunate like this situation right now happens.
> 
> EDIT: *Seriously people how many times across multiple threads have I said this? If you want to be able to to talk about this you need to stay on topic, and keep it productive. Do not get people's threads locked because you want to start trouble. If I have to delete another post like what was just posted, the people who do it will be suspended instantly. Do I make myself clear?*




Ever hear the expression "Actions speak louder then words"? You keep saying there's all this "behind the scenes" fixing going on but constant slow downs and down times prove otherwise. Unless you got something concrete to show the users that "yes the code is being worked on, here's the proof" please stop feeding us line after line of bs.  These are all problems brought up and pointed out years ago and they still aren't fixed. Coding takes time but it don't take years. Not the simple fixes FA has needed just to run properly. These issues have been brought up many times, not just during issues. It just so happens that's when the site gets the most flack. As it should. 

There are tons of free sites with lots of user traffic.  Anyone remember neopets? Started by bored college students. Was run for free for years and years with no hackings and properly coded and maintained. Again, by bored college kids and volunteers.  Still a free site run by people on free time running heavy script pages and handling thousands of users at once constantly refreshing. If bored college kids can turn an afternoon hobby into what neopets is all these years later, I don't see why FA should be given all the excuses known to man. Many sites have done more then FA and that was with out thousands of dollars in donations. 

So, where are these changes?  If they're really being done prove it. What codes have been rewritten?  What security holes have been fixed?  You don't need to be a coder to answer or understand these questions.  And before anyone says they can't answer the security question, if they actually fixed the issue naming it isn't magically going to make the site vulnerable.


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 16, 2013)

RyuuYouki said:


> Ever hear the expression "Actions speak louder then words"? You keep saying there's all "behind the scenes" fixing going on but constant slow downs and down times prove otherwise. Unless you got something concrete to show the users that "yes the code is being worked on, here's the proof" please stop feeding us line after line of bs.  These are all problems brought up and pointed out years ago and they still aren't fixed. Coding takes time but it don't take years. Not the simple fixes FA has needed just to run properly. These issues have been brought up many times, not just during issues. It just so happens that's when the site gets the most flack. As it should.
> 
> There are tons of free sites with lots of user traffic.  Anyone remember neopets? Started by bored college students. Was run for free for years and years with no hackings and properly coded and maintained. Again, by bored college kids and volunteers.  Still a free site run by people on free time running heavy script pages and handling thousands of users at once constantly refreshing. If bored college kids can turn an afternoon hobby into what neopets is all these years later, I don't see why FA should be given all the excuses known to man. Many sites have done more then FA and that was with out thousands of dollars in donations.
> 
> So, where are these changes?  If there really being done prove it. What codes have been rewritten?  What security holes have been fixed?  You don't need to be a coder to answer or understand these questions.  And before anyone says they can't answer the security question, if they actually fixed the issue naming it isn't magically going to make the site vulnerable.



As someone who has been on staff long enough I can throw up a couple of major things that I know were fixed. Things like the the commission info tab, that had been unusable for goodness knows how long is a start. There is also some big internal changes that made dealing with and sorting through tickets a lot easier for the ticket staff. There are also many bits and bobs in the drop downs as you navigate that also have features that were not there before, or actually work better now. I'm not a coder mind you. However I've been around long enough to pick up on some understanding. A lot of the coding has a lot to do with closing up holes, trying to fix stability, etc. That's what kind of sucks though. Some of these major bits are not physical things people can see. It frustates me to no end because like you I want to see more of the fixes that the users feel directly, and can see.

I know the option to better moderate your own stuff (such as trying to have a better blocking system set up) the ability to put your own account into as close as a deleted status as possible without it actually being deleted...that's new ish thanks to our coders. Also the ability to make it so that only registered logged in people can view your page is something that was given to our users via update.

Of course long term I the goal isn't to take what FA is right now and just fix that. The long term goal is to actual prime the site's fixes to be ready for the actual update over all to the main side. I also know that at least here on Vbulliten, there are a few issues that had to be ironed out for the update with Vbulliten.


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## teil (Dec 16, 2013)

Just curious, what ever happened to the beta site that showed the update/new website design? 
Did that whole thing get trashed?


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## Ozriel (Dec 16, 2013)

RyuuYouki said:


> Ever hear the expression "Actions speak louder then words"? You keep saying there's all this "behind the scenes" fixing going on but constant slow downs and down times prove otherwise. Unless you got something concrete to show the users that "yes the code is being worked on, here's the proof" please stop feeding us line after line of bs.  These are all problems brought up and pointed out years ago and they still aren't fixed. Coding takes time but it don't take years. Not the simple fixes FA has needed just to run properly. These issues have been brought up many times, not just during issues. It just so happens that's when the site gets the most flack. As it should.
> 
> There are tons of free sites with lots of user traffic.  Anyone remember neopets? Started by bored college students. Was run for free for years and years with no hackings and properly coded and maintained. Again, by bored college kids and volunteers.  Still a free site run by people on free time running heavy script pages and handling thousands of users at once constantly refreshing. If bored college kids can turn an afternoon hobby into what neopets is all these years later, I don't see why FA should be given all the excuses known to man. Many sites have done more then FA and that was with out thousands of dollars in donations.
> 
> So, where are these changes?  If they're really being done prove it. What codes have been rewritten?  What security holes have been fixed?  You don't need to be a coder to answer or understand these questions.  And before anyone says they can't answer the security question, if they actually fixed the issue naming it isn't magically going to make the site vulnerable.



Just to point out, Neopets may have been coded by bored college students, but it was in no way perfect and had a ton of exploits that even a novice hacker could take advantage of.


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## RyuuYouki (Dec 16, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> As someone who has been on staff long enough I can throw up a couple of major things that I know were fixed. Things like the the commission info tab, that had been unusable for goodness knows how long is a start. There is also some big internal changes that made dealing with and sorting through tickets a lot easier for the ticket staff. There are also many bits and bobs in the drop downs as you navigate that also have features that were not there before, or actually work better now. I'm not a coder mind you. However I've been around long enough to pick up on some understanding. A lot of the coding has a lot to do with closing up holes, trying to fix stability, etc. That's what kind of sucks though. Some of these major bits are not physical things people can see. It frustates me to no end because like you I want to see more of the fixes that the users feel directly, and can see.
> 
> Of course long term I the goal isn't to take what FA is right now and just fix that. The long term goal is to actual prime the site's fixes to be ready for the actual update over all to the main side. I also know that at least here on Vbulliten, there are a few issues that had to be ironed out for the update with Vbulliten.




So what you're saying is that out of all these amazing updates, not a single one was for site stability or security?  And you don't see an issue with that?  I understand stuff being fixed isn't always something you can "see" but damn if I'm gonna see your admin dirty laundry aired on the Internet again because someone refuses to fix site security.



Ozriel said:


> Just to point out, Neopets may have been coded by bored college students, but it was in no way perfect and had a ton of exploits that even a novice hacker could take advantage of.






They also fixed these issues and didn't just go "lol too bad my coding is l33t!" No site is perfect, especially when they first start out. It's how you handle your mistakes an learn from them that people will judge you


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## RyuuYouki (Dec 16, 2013)

Here derp, double post. Ignore


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## Deo (Dec 16, 2013)

Oh yes, this bitching and moaning and throwing of pissyfits will surely help get the site back on. How about instead of general "FA has always been bad, bawwww fix it fix it!" we have IT people volunteer to help with code and the rest of you whiners can throw some donation money in for new servers.


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 16, 2013)

teil said:


> Just curious, what ever happened to the beta site that showed the update/new website design?
> Did that whole thing get trashed?



It's not trashed. To say we are not working on the new web-redesign would be wholly inaccurate. However neer himself has been recently very busy and I won't go into more detail that than. It's definitely not something hold against the guy, just not my place to say more than that. This has unfortunately caused quite a bit of a hold up but we've got people working on things. In the mean time there has been a lot of really useful changes going on behind the scenes that just don't affect code. We've been also working on streamlining interstaff communication. It's great and all if you update the site but we also need to look ahead on how we restructure things internally.


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## RyuuYouki (Dec 16, 2013)

Deo said:


> Oh yes, this bitching and moaning and throwing of pissyfits will surely help get the site back on. How about instead of general "FA has always been bad, bawwww fix it fix it!" we have IT people volunteer to help with code and the rest of you whiners can throw some donation money in for new servers.




You mean what people have offered and tried to do but always get ignored?


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## teil (Dec 16, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> It's not trashed. To say we are not working on the new web-redesign would be wholly inaccurate. However neer himself has been recently very busy and I won't go into more detail that than. It's definitely not something hold against the guy, just not my place to say more than that. This has unfortunately caused quite a bit of a hold up but we've got people working on things. In the mean time there has been a lot of really useful changes going on behind the scenes that just don't affect code. We've been also working on streamlining interstaff communication. It's great and all if you update the site but we also need to look ahead on how we restructure things internally.



Makes sense to take babysteps. A lot of people expect a full reconstruction of the site, and while that's possible, it's also risky business. 
I lovvvvved the look of the new design. I do hope someday it's implemented. But patience is key, I guess. *explodes*


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## Ozriel (Dec 16, 2013)

RyuuYouki said:


> They also fixed these issues and didn't just go "lol too bad my coding is l33t!"  No site is perfect, especially when they first start out.  It's how you handle your mistakes an learn from them that people will judge you.



Now, they are having problems with people using greasemonkey for doing auto-dailies and such that can slow down the site to a crawl. Problems get fixed, but new ones will always crop up that can cause a detrimental effect to a site. 
 FA is no far near perfect, but like with WoW, Gaiaonline, or neopets for instance, people will nitpick just for the sake of nitpicking. Complaining and petty threats  will not get the work done faster. Problems happen and the best thing to do is allow the people working on it to do their job without backseat picking.

Anyways, the problem right now is the unexpected downtime, and they are trying to make up for it. It is unexpected and I was upset when it went down too (Since I had an auction going and wanted to advertise it), so you have to make do with the extra time and do something else.


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## Trpdwarf (Dec 16, 2013)

RyuuYouki said:


> So what you're saying is that out of all these amazing updates, not a single one was for site stability or security?  And you don't see an issue with that?  I understand stuff being fixed isn't always something you can "see" but damn if I'm gonna see your admin dirty laundry aired on the Internet again because someone refuses to fix site security.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As I said I am not a coder and I can only share what I do know. You asked for more physical things that people can see, I am giving a few examples. However fixes have been for security and have been for stability as well. Why do you think it took so long to try to get the tab fixed for commission info. It's not something you can throw up and be done. You need to test it to make sure it's secure, and people can't do malicious things with it with a little bit of skill (or a lot). I can't give you all the information I don't have or don't know. There are likely many more things that I just don't know about because it's not my area of staff.

I know that the focus has been heavy on stability and security. That also means ironing out the bits that are causing the slow downs which don't promote stability as all.

EDIT: Actually I know of a big security update that was done but I don't remember when it happened. We all know that we've had issues in the past with people's personal notes being leaked via exploits. Well we've actually had a pretty good update that better secures the note system. This is why for example if you file a ticket now there is an option to enable your notes to be read by staff. You still have to link said notes. Then when the ticket is done, handled, and closed, that expires and your notes can't be read. That's something is nice to finally see fixed. I don't have the time to go into the full details right now. I know I will be leaving shortly.


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## seaweed (Dec 16, 2013)

Deo said:


> Oh yes, this bitching and moaning and throwing of pissyfits will surely help get the site back on. How about instead of general "FA has always been bad, bawwww fix it fix it!" we have IT people volunteer to help with code and the rest of you whiners can throw some donation money in for new servers.






MANY people have offered to help, even well before this fiasco, and nothing has been done about it. 

As for throwing money for new servers, that has also been done, they literally raised thousands of dollars.. and here we are, still having the same problem. 

Throwing hardware at the site IS NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.


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## jayhusky (Dec 16, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> It's not trashed. To say we are not working on the new web-redesign would be wholly inaccurate. However neer himself has been recently very busy and I won't go into more detail that than. It's definitely not something hold against the guy, just not my place to say more than that. This has unfortunately caused quite a bit of a hold up but we've got people working on things. In the mean time there has been a lot of really useful changes going on behind the scenes that just don't affect code. We've been also working on streamlining interstaff communication. It's great and all if you update the site but we also need to look ahead on how we restructure things internally.



This is true, various staff are working on it, along with some others. From what I've seen a fair percent of it is complete, just a lot of cosmetic tweaks to it. 

It is nice to hear that interstaff communication is being worked on/getting better however. Thanks for the insight.


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## Deo (Dec 16, 2013)

OP also does not seem to realize Dragoneer owns the website and most of it's costs come out of his pocket. It's his goddamn sandbox and he's letting you play in it. The reason he can't "grow a pair and just fix the site already It's not that difficult" is that it actually is difficult. Finding coders, designers, and skilled people who are willing to work for free is really very difficult. It's not some magical finger snap and it's all better, there's a lot of problems that come with a site that gets so much traffic, hosts so much data (comments, favorites, journals, galleries, watches), there is a fuckload of stuff to tweak and make better and you are an idiot for expecting one man to give up his life/job to focus on his furry website. It's his, he let's you use it for free, be happy with that and don't bitch for more.


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## Ozriel (Dec 16, 2013)

Since we are going to around in a circle like a runaway carousel, I think it is time to take this thread behind the shed. Keep an eye on Site statuses for any news.


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