# Poll: Borg cube VS death star



## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Discuss
also note, if the borg won, theyd fuggin assimilate darth vader, acess his knowledge, and harness/refine the jedi powers. aka we would all be fucked.


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## Kangamutt (Nov 19, 2009)

Death Star- Big fucking laser, Darth Vader, and totally not a small moon.

EDIT: And fully operational. Can't forget that.


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## lilEmber (Nov 19, 2009)

Death star is the size of a small moon and can destroy a planet.

Borg cube is much smaller than a moon and can barely destroy a few (much smaller than itself sizes) ships.

Death Star has one weakness that's the size of a large sewer hole and apparently took the focus (and a second attempt) with the supposedly strongest jedi ever, ever and even then it was all luck.

Death star wouldn't even be scratched.


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## Dass (Nov 19, 2009)

Death Star.

If it's the second one.

And complete.


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## Kangamutt (Nov 19, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Death star is the size of a small moon and can destroy a planet.
> 
> Borg cube is much smaller than a moon and can barely destroy a few (much smaller than itself sizes) ships.
> 
> ...



Fix'd :3


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Death Star.  It has, in the very least, Petaton-grade shielding.  Standard SW Turbo Lasers are 200 Gigatons.  Star Trek uses double-digit Megaton torpedos.  

For a firepower comparison:  If a Borg Cube fired 10,000 Torpedos / Phaser beams, it'd match a single SW Capital Ship weapon.

Now, for the counter:  SW Deathstar Beam is ranked in Exatons of explosive power.  A single exaton of explosive force is comparable to 50,000,000,000 ST Torpedos / Laser shots being fired at once.  If the Deathstar even _clips_ the Borg Cube, it's gone.

EDIT:  And with SW Shields, I just realized that they could win without firing a single shot.  "Admiral, ramming speed!"


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

THAT'S NO MOON!


Also, I always wanted to know:

Covenant vs Empire?


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## Lynxd00d (Nov 19, 2009)

borg cube for a few simple reasons, the borg ship repairs itself, after a couple shots from the death star or the force or a light saber the borg will be immune to all attacks, plus if a puny little x fighter can destroy the first one and the millenium falcon can destroy the second one a borg cube with tons and tons of drones will have no problem. plus theres thousands of borg cubes so if the star kills 1 the rest are coming to destroy the rest plus like noted in the first post they will assimilate vader and all the drones will have the force....holy god picard better GTFO of the universe LOL


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## Dass (Nov 19, 2009)

You know what, screw those two criteria from earlier. The star wins.

And it's primary weapon is so powerful it would likely win even if it missed.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

Borgs do not have the force, nor do they have X-wings. 

We never see the death star's anti-capital ship capabilities, but considering that it's a planetbreaker, we can assume that they are quite impressive. 

Oh, and it's hard to repair itself when it's VAPORIZED IN A SINGLE SHOT.


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## Nargle (Nov 19, 2009)

Kangaroo_Boy said:


> Fix'd :3



Lol =3


Also, yeah, totally Death Star.


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## lilEmber (Nov 19, 2009)

Lynxd00d said:


> borg cube for a few simple reasons, the borg ship repairs itself, after a couple shots from the death star or the force or a light saber the borg will be immune to all attacks, plus if a puny little x fighter can destroy the first one and the millenium falcon can destroy the second one a borg cube with tons and tons of drones will have no problem. plus theres thousands of borg cubes so if the star kills 1 the rest are coming to destroy the rest plus like noted in the first post they will assimilate vader and all the drones will have the force....holy god picard better GTFO of the universe LOL



Well actually the borg don't nullify damage, they just configure their body to absorb or redirect it elsewhere. However, if the force is powerful enough it'll just kill them anyway. So a blast that's a thousand times more powerful than the core of any star would probably disintegrate their very molecular structure. ;3

But this could be a valid argument for the laser based/plasma weapons that isn't the death stars main gun or a light sabre.

Also your signature is porn, which isn't allowed. So I'd change it.


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## Dass (Nov 19, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> Oh, and it's hard to repair itself when it's VAPORIZED IN A SINGLE SHOT.



Totally.

Also, Lynxd00d has a NSFW pic in signature. Nobody wants to see that, MODS!


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> Also, I always wanted to know:
> 
> Covenant vs Empire?


Covenant are drowned out in numbers, superior FTL travel, and superior weapons / shielding?  



Lynxd00d said:


> borg cube for a few simple reasons, the borg ship repairs itself,


  It will have nothing to repair.  A single Turbo Laser shot from the Deathstar is akin to being hit by 10,000 Proton Torpedos, and that's a single point-defense weapon.  Now try the Billions-of-Torpedoes strong main weapon, or the KE impact it'd have just by ramming a Borg ship.


> after a couple shots from the death star or the force or a light saber the borg will be immune to all attacks,


Doesn't work that way.  Borg can adapt to frequency based weapons of a similar scale of firepower to what they've faced before.  SW weapons are in the very least five orders of magnitude more powerful than Borg weapons.  That's as many as five digits, and that's terrible.

Oh yeah, and I'd like to see how - even if this were not the case - how you'd explain their less-than-stellar resistance to KE weapons.  You know, like blades, punches, etc.  And how they kept getting their cube corners handed to them by Species 8472 or whatever the feth they're called.



> plus if a puny little x fighter can destroy the first one and the millenium falcon can destroy the second one a borg cube with tons and tons of drones will have no problem.


  Wasn't a Borg Cube driven off by an exploratory vessel's weapons set on random frequency?



> plus theres thousands of borg cubes


Hey, did you know the Deathstar was made in secret over only a few years time?  There could be ten thousand Borg Cubes, and as long as they stuck up with the "We are the Borg, resistance is futile" schtick while firing one missile at a time they'd never even scratch the armor of the thing.  Heck, they'd be better off making a giant wall around the thing and waiting for its crew to die of old age / starvation.


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## LotsOfNothing (Nov 19, 2009)

The Bord would just assimilate the lasers fired from the Death Star.   :V


Truthful answer:  I don't care enough.


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## StarGazingWolf (Nov 19, 2009)

Death Star, it's gotta be, hands down.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Covenant are drowned out in numbers, superior FTL travel, and superior weapons / shielding?



Um... The Covenant are pretty fucking huge. Also, we don't really know how Covenant shields would react to SW lasers or SW shields to plasma weapons (or MAC guns/Shivia nukes for that matter...) 

The way I see it, shields or no shield, that kind of heat will eventually mess with the plating on a ship. 

Also, elite vs stormtrooper? *SCOFF*


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> Um... The Covenant are pretty fucking huge.


  Empire had several tens of thousands of ISD's sitting around / policing the galaxy.  Just ISD's.  Ships with weapons quite a match / superior to the Covenant's own.



> Also, we don't really know how Covenant shields would react to SW lasers or SW shields to plasma weapons (or MAC guns/Shivia nukes for that matter...)


  If they work anything like they do against Halo weapons, they'll snap the shields down in a few shots.  Super MAC's were capable of quickly stripping a Covenant ship's shields and causing all kinds of hell to them.  Highest end put a SMAC shot at around 5TT, or a bit over 25 TL shots.  Good thing Turbolasers have light-second ranges and ISD's are packing over 60 each.



> Also, elite vs stormtrooper? *SCOFF*


Oh, this one would go horribly on Covenant's side.  Dark Troopers would be needed to counter the best of the Covenant troops.  Dark Troopers or Sith.


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

IMO, if there was more than one cube to witness/record/adapt to the death star's weapons, ittd be game over for the empire. Brute force has nothing if you can weasle around it. Also does the star have sheilds that prevent the borg from plain old beaming on? once inside youd need only a small handfull of drones adapted to those pew pew guns


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Empire had several tens of thousands of ISD's sitting around / policing the galaxy.  Just ISD's.  Ships with weapons quite a match / superior to the Covenant's own.
> 
> If they work anything like they do against Halo weapons, they'll snap the shields down in a few shots.  Super MAC's were capable of quickly stripping a Covenant ship's shields and causing all kinds of hell to them.  Highest end put a SMAC shot at around 5TT, or a bit over 25 TL shots.  Good thing Turbolasers have light-second ranges and ISD's are packing over 60 each.
> 
> Oh, this one would go horribly on Covenant's side.  Dark Troopers would be needed to counter the best of the Covenant troops.  Dark Troopers or Sith.



But are the cannons on an imperial ship anywhere near as powerful as a MAC gun? Or a nuke? IIRC, it took multiple nuke hits to kill a Covenant capital ship. 

And the infantry battle still goes to the Covenant. Dark troopers vs Elite? Elite could one-shot kill the dark trooper. We're not going by the rules of the videogames here, plasma weapons rip you in half with a single shot. Read contact harvest. A SPARTAN gets hit once and he dies (granted it was due to suit depressurization, not direct wound but still... a SPARTAN... you know, like MASTER CHIEF). 

Sith? Meet energy sword. Unless some BS happens where the lightsaber destroys the energy sword on contact, the energy sword wins. Lightsabers are wielded with huge, clumsy swings, whereas energy swords require only one lightning-quick leap. 

Oh, and there are hundreds upon thousands upon millions of Elites sword-ready and stab-happy. How many sith you got? 'Sides, the force doesn't help you if they say **** it and glass the planet.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> IMO, if there was more than one cube to witness/record/adapt to the death star's weapons, ittd be game over for the empire. Brute force has nothing if you can weasle around it.


  Which is why the borg were so effective against species 8472.  Wait...



> Also does the star have sheilds that prevent the borg from plain old beaming on?


Considering bad storms, shiny rocks, and certain packing materials can, I'd say yes. 



> once inside youd need only a small handfull of drones adapted to those pew pew guns


Vibro-Blades.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> But are the cannons on an imperial ship anywhere near as powerful as a MAC gun?


  The Super MAC, the ones that have to park in orbit around a planet and require planet-side generators specifically set up for them, is matched at least twice by a single ISD's weapon load.



> Or a nuke? IIRC, it took multiple nuke hits to kill a Covenant capital ship.


  80 Megaton Nukes.  A 200 Gigaton Turbo Laser is 2500 the firepower of that.



> We're not going by the rules of the videogames here, plasma weapons rip you in half with a single shot.


Not in the novels, they don't.  Needlers are nasty for their shrapnel, but a man gut-shot by one can survive several hours.  A fully charged plasma pistol failed to kill an unshielded SPARTAN-II.  It's the heavy stuff like Fuel Rod Cannons that are hell, but by then you have your own worries.



> Read contact harvest. A SPARTAN gets hit once and he dies (granted it was due to suit depressurization, not direct wound but still... a SPARTAN... you know, like MASTER CHIEF).


  I have spent the last four years on a debating forum that currently has four separate technicality debates going on for Halo Weapons, and has evolved with each new game / book installment to the series.  I have read through First Strike, Flood, and Fall of Reach, while reading the opening segments to Ghosts of Onyx and the Halo Codex.  I am nerd, fear me and my fancy throwing around of terms like kilojoules and ionized! 



> Sith? Meet energy sword.


  Meet force push.



> Unless some BS happens where the lightsaber destroys the energy sword on contact, the energy sword wins. Lightsabers are wielded with huge, clumsy swings, whereas energy swords require only one lightning-quick leap.


  Energy swords have a worse design than a lightsaber.  Light Sabers can stab, thrust, block, parry, etc.  An energy sword is a handle surrounded on two sides by a blade that has no sort of guard whatsoever:  Twice the energy goodness of a Lightsaber with just as many safety protocols in play. :grin:



> Oh, and there are hundreds upon thousands upon millions of Elites sword-ready and stab-happy. How many sith you got? 'Sides, the force doesn't help you if they say **** it and glass the planet.


  Guess what?  ISD's can glass planets too   And another guess what?  Unless you take Travis' "Double digit millions force polices entire galaxy" numbers to heart, Storm Troopers outnumber Covenant with ground weapons of a similar quality.


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Meet force push.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Captain Spyro (Nov 19, 2009)

The Death Star, by FAR.

Honestly from reading various discussions on the subject, the Galactic Empire has many races in Star Trek out-gunned and overpowered. The Borg could very well be one of the few who could put up a fight, but when it comes to the Death Star...a Borg Cube, chance, little it has.

Long live the Empire!


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> force, meet frequency adaptation.


Frequency adaptation, meet Species 8472


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

If the borg could find whatever wavelength/frequency/whatever the force travels on, and blocked/warped it, they could mindfuck vader/palpatine to the point the entire empire would crumble inside out.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

If you did read those books, then did you forget how big the fleet sent to take out Earth was? And that wasn't even all of them, that was just a single strike force. 

And yes, a fully charged bolt did not kill a SPARTAN... because he was using shields originally designed by THE COVENANT. 

A normal soldier does not do so well. An uncharged plasma bolt to the chest is survivable, but that's a wound that it only takes a single grunt to inflict. With an elite or, heaven forbid, a brute gunning for you... 


Also, funny you should mention needlers... I would actually think that those would be the most useless weapons against the Empire, since they would have difficulty reaching flesh in which to embed... 

Not that that ever stopped them from killing SPARTANs... >=(


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> If the borg could find whatever wavelength/frequency/whatever the force travels on, and blocked/warped it, they could mindfuck vader/palpatine to the point the entire empire would crumble inside out.



The force is not a radio or light frequency. It does not operate by any rules that exist in the Star Trek universe.


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Frequency adaptation, meet Species 8472


 
now....does the empire have any of those? no? ok then theyre screwed.


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> The force is not a radio or light frequency. It does not operate by any rules that exist in the Star Trek universe.


 

would the borg conceivably be able to come into contact with whatever those little organisms that cause the force outside of the death star, and then manipulate it to thier need?


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## Dass (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> would the borg conceivably be able to come into contact with whatever those little organisms that cause the force outside of the death star, and then manipulate it to thier need?



The force controls little organisms, not the reverse.

Even in soviet Russia.

Edit; the precise description is 


			
				Ben Kenobi said:
			
		

> It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.



So it controls all organisms regardless of size


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Dass said:


> The force controls little organisms, not the reverse.
> 
> Even in soviet Russia.


 



...oh
im a nub. i thought there were like, little bacteria...thingies....


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 19, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Death star is the size of a small moon and can destroy a planet.
> 
> Borg cube is much smaller than a moon and can barely destroy a few (much smaller than itself sizes) ships.
> 
> ...



One Borg cube can destroy 40+ Starfleet ships. One Death Star can destroy a Borg cube, but where there's one Borg, there's plenty more to pop up in it's place, and they're relentless. They'll keep coming til the Death Star's supplies are exhausted or assimilated.
Plus, Star Trek has Q. Not even Vader can stand up to an omnipotent being like Q.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> If you did read those books, then did you forget how big the fleet sent to take out Earth was? And that wasn't even all of them, that was just a single strike force.


  The fleet of several hundred / thousand ships that was easily matched by most SW Sector fleets in size?



> And yes, a fully charged bolt did not kill a SPARTAN... because he was using shields originally designed by THE COVENANT.


  The Spartan had no shields.  This was before the SPARTAN project even had energy shielding.  A Jackle with a Plasma Pistol, while not killing (directly), did turn a SPARTAN-II soldier into a casualty.



> An uncharged plasma bolt to the chest is survivable, but that's a wound that it only takes a single grunt to inflict.


  What do you know?  The same thing goes for Star Wars blasters   And guess what?  Han shot first.



> With an elite or, heaven forbid, a brute gunning for you...


  E-Web. 



> Also, funny you should mention needlers... I would actually think that those would be the most useless weapons against the Empire, since they would have difficulty reaching flesh in which to embed...


  Just like those Ewok spears failed to penetrate Storm Trooper armor.



> Not that that ever stopped them from killing SPARTANs... >=(


  Because, according to Halo Canon, UNSC weapons have horrendous range and capabilities:  Their weapons are worse than their modern day equivalents.  The SMG has a listed range in the official Halo Encyclopedia of 50 meters, the Battle Rifle's underslung grenade launcher has under 1/10th the range of modern underslung grenade launchers, etc.



MissMayhem said:


> now....does the empire have any of those? no? ok then theyre screwed.


"We are the Borg.  Resistance is futile.  Y-" 
*Force Crush*
"We are the Borg.  Resistance is futi-"
*E-Web goodness*
"We are the Borg.  Res-"
*Heavy Blaster dakka*
"We-"
*Thermal Detonators, AWAY*


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> ...oh
> im a nub. i thought there were like, little bacteria...thingies....



They are. Midi-Chlorians. They live in every cell of every being...

But you can't dick around with other people's Midi-Chlorians. You just can't. If by pure chance one of the borg happened to be gifted with the force (had a lot of Midi-Chlorians) then there might be something, but that seems unlikely, especially if they need to stick to the Star-Trek canon.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> One Borg cube can destroy 40+ Starfleet ships.


  40 Star Fleet ships firing 10 Torpedos a second non-stop would take 25 seconds to match a single ISD Turbo Laser.  ISD's pack 60 of them, in addition to other weapons.  In other words:  One ISD firing a single volley in one second can match 40 star fleet ship's firepower if they fired for 25 minutes straight with no slacking off.


> One Death Star can destroy a Borg cube, but where there's one Borg, there's plenty more to pop up in it's place, and they're relentless.


They're also large target profiles that loudly announce their presence and wait before opening fire.  Not a good combination when the enemy has firepower five orders of magnitude better than you, as well as similar numbers of ships.


> Plus, Star Trek has Q. Not even Vader can stand up to an omnipotent being like Q.


Technically, Q isn't Omnipotent.  Just close enough that you might as well call him such.


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## Dass (Nov 19, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> One Borg cube can destroy 40+ Starfleet ships. One Death Star can destroy a Borg cube, but where there's one Borg, there's plenty more to pop up in it's place, and they're relentless. They'll keep coming til the Death Star's supplies are exhausted or assimilated.
> Plus, Star Trek has Q. Not even Vader can stand up to an omnipotent being like Q.



Yes, but, any number of those would be unlikely to so much as dent a Death Star. As for any type of potential blockade, Death Stars are capable of FTL travel.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

Oh, I thought you were talking about the indecent with the Grunt ambush... Hmm... on second thought, that was a Mark IV, so NVM. 

I don't recall an incident with an overcharge bolt and a Mark II. 


UNSC weapons are a bit on the lame side... but they do have a 50 cal. pistol. 

That's a force to be reckoned with. 



As for the blaster rifle vs plasma rifle: Let's do a comparison. 

Damage: Both can cause mortal wounds in a single shot against an unarmored target. 
R.O.F: Blaster Rifle: Semi Automatic (at least it usually appears to be) Laser Rifle: Automatic, 540 Rounds Per Minute
Accuracy: "Imperial Marksmanship Academy." That is all.


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 19, 2009)

Attaman said:


> 40 Star Fleet ships firing 10 Torpedos a second non-stop would take 25 seconds to match a single ISD Turbo Laser.  ISD's pack 60 of them, in addition to other weapons.  In other words:  One ISD firing a single volley in one second can match 40 star fleet ship's firepower if they fired for 25 minutes straight with no slacking off.
> They're also large target profiles that loudly announce their presence and wait before opening fire.  Not a good combination when the enemy has firepower five orders of magnitude better than you, as well as similar numbers of ships.



The Borg have been known to sacrifice their numbers to obtain their goals. Sacrifice a few drones until you adapt to the Death Star's frequency and/or send drones over and start assimilating the Death Star's crew.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Sacrifice a few drones until you adapt to the Death Star's frequency


   Even if that somehow works:  The Death Star is the size of a small moon.  It has engines.  Its shields can output more energy than a Borg Cubes.  The Cubes will get the Chewbacca treatment.


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## lilEmber (Nov 19, 2009)

Death star beats borg cube, but a covenant battle brigade beats a death star.


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Ok how fast can the death star recharge/fire? and could it blast a cube that was right next to it without causing itself harm?


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## lilEmber (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> Ok how fast can the death star recharge/fire? and could it blast a cube that was right next to it without causing itself harm?



It takes a while to charge a shot and it's unknown exactly how fast between shots. It's at max a day or something. I'd assume an hour maybe, maybe less. And it can be next to the target without causing itself any damage, it's stronger than a moon by a large amount.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> Ok how fast can the death star recharge/fire?


Unsure on the main weapon, but the Turbo Lasers are only 1-2 seconds according to Wookiepedia.  That's... not a good sign for the Borg.


> and could it blast a cube that was right next to it without causing itself harm?


  They fired said (turbo) lasers at fighter craft pulling attack runs, so for them yes.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

Well... in battlefront 2 there's a level inside the Death Star... 

And it fires every few minutes there...


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## MissMayhem (Nov 19, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Even if that somehow works: The Death Star is the size of a small moon. It has engines. Its shields can output more energy than a Borg Cubes. The Cubes will get the Chewbacca treatment.


 brain > brawn. its like a venom immune mongoose in a cobra pit. it dont care theres enough cobras to kill all of india, it cant kill the mongoose. or a bird dureing an earthquake


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## Unsilenced (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> brain > brawn. its like a venom immune mongoose in a cobra pit. it dont care theres enough cobras to kill all of india, it cant kill the mongoose. or a bird dureing an earthquake



Brain only goes so far... 

"I have yet to meet one who can outsmart bullet"


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## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 19, 2009)

Death Star.  It's gonna be protected by a fleet of Star Destroyers so they would be backup.

Also the Covenant vs. Empire.  Empire has ion cannons.


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## Attaman (Nov 19, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> brain > brawn.


Borg tactics regarding the non-adaptable Species 8472?  Keep up the same old trick, and keep on getting blown up.  They may have some smarts, but they have absolutely no creativity or innovation.  If they can't beat the SW ship by adapting, they'll fall back on their primitive "Keep sending ships until something good happens" tactic.


> its like a venom immune mongoose in a cobra pit. it dont care theres enough cobras to kill all of india, it cant kill the mongoose. or a bird dureing an earthquake


 A more apt example in this case would be a Bolo Concordiat Tank (Mk XXXIII) dropped in Sparta circa 500BCE.


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## Jashwa (Nov 19, 2009)

Death Star.


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## Azure (Nov 19, 2009)

You guys do know that your "superweapon" is only on one side of the death star, right?  And you do know that they have literally hundreds of thousands of cubes, and it''s not even their largest ship.  Not to mention that lasers are pretty friggin weak in the Star Trek universe last time I checked. Warp in a fleet on the far side of the star, and go to town, they'll adapt to the lasers eventually, and then, de nada.  Get one cube inside the perimeter of the deathstar, and it'll all be over.  Can all that Petaton, Megaton, Faggotton bullshit, it don't compute.  Plus, the deathstar can't ram shit, it's a fucking space station that moves like a goddamn slug.


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## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> You guys do know that your "superweapon" is only on one side of the death star, right?





			
				Wookiepedia said:
			
		

> Both Death Stars were defended by hundreds of shield projectors, and thousands of turbolasers, ion cannons and laser cannons. The first one contained a complement of seven to nine thousand TIE fighters, along with tens of thousands of support craft, bombers, and gunships. Massive docking bays provided several Star Destroyers with dry docks, and more than a million Imperial personnel were on board both battle stations.


  The standard Turbolaser is 200GT in firepower.  One cannot stress how much a firepower difference is involved here.


> And you do know that they have literally hundreds of thousands of cubes, and it''s not even their largest ship.


And you know the Death Star was a secret project built within just a few year's time?


> Not to mention that lasers are pretty friggin weak in the Star Trek universe last time I checked.


Star Trek Proton Torpedos:  Double-digit Megatons.

Number of Proton Torpedos to match a single Capital Ship-grade Turbo Laser shot:  At least 1,000.



> Warp in a fleet on the far side of the star, and go to town, they'll adapt to the lasers eventually, and then, de nada.


 And then ramming speed.  :grin:



> Get one cube inside the perimeter of the deathstar,


  What will it do, make a piddly megaton-grade explosion on the hull armor intended to withstand engagement by SW fleets?



> Can all that Petaton, Megaton, Faggotton bullshit, it don't compute.


  Actually, it does.  When in about five seconds a SW ship has fired more firepower than a Trek ship can generate in a day, shields tend not to last long.



> Plus, the deathstar can't ram shit, it's a fucking space station that moves like a goddamn slug.


  Even assuming it moves at "just" 1200kph (or the speed of sound, which is a "goddamn slug" fast in space), the thing's mass is enough that it'd be akin to hitting a Borg Cube with a rogue moon.  That was made out of Iridium.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 20, 2009)

There's nothing really preventing the death star from getting up to massive speeds...

provided it has a good run-up. 

Changing directions ain't happening though.


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## Azure (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> lol


ITT, we use faux science to prove things.  The real winner is the Terran Battlecruiser.  YAMATO CANNON GO GO GO.  I can't wait for SC2. And George Lucas sucks.  Star Wars is just a cheap space opera. It's like the soapy version of science fiction. Bad drama, cookie cutter characters, the list goes on and on.


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## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> ITT, we use faux science to prove things.  The real winner is the Terran Battlecruiser.


  Hydralisks can shoot them down 

Besides, the Heart of Gold's where it's at.


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## Kommodore (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman has _clearly_ done some time on spacebattles.com...

But yeah both Trek and Halo are on the low end of the scifi power spectrum. If it is a single cube vs a single DS the the orientation of the DS doesn't really matter, the cube simply doesn't pack the punch to take out the shields or the endurance to take a hit from the cannon... or even the smaller defensive guns. If it you are talking the Borg vs the Empire than it is even more one sided. The GE will no doubt have more ships with greater firepower than the Borg. 

The covenant only seem powerful when compared to Halo humans. In reality they are pretty week. They took 20+ years to widdle away at a technologically inferior race that only possessed ~150 planets. As Attaman said they have far weaker weapons and far weaker ships. ISDs and the Empire in general is pretty imba. 

So yeah DS. 

[/nerd]


----------



## Unsilenced (Nov 20, 2009)

You have to remember that the reason it took the Covenant so long to take human-controlled planets is because they needed to FIND the things first. The Cole protocol did more to help prolong the conflict than any achievement on the field of battle.


----------



## Mayfurr (Nov 20, 2009)

I vote Death Star, if it can get the first shot in.

While the Borg can adapt to weapons fired at them, they have to survive the _first_ shot in order to adapt... which is kinda hard if your ship or Borg has just been reduced to its component atoms.

Next up:
* Borg vs. Dalek, or alternately
* Death Star vs. B5 Vorlon Planet-Killer


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 20, 2009)

Mayfurr said:


> I vote Death Star, if it can get the first shot in.
> 
> While the Borg can adapt to weapons fired at them, they have to survive the _first_ shot in order to adapt... which is kinda hard if your ship or Borg has just been reduced to its component atoms.
> 
> ...


 

no. next is jar jar binks vs nelix in a cage match


----------



## Azure (Nov 20, 2009)

Mayfurr said:


> I vote Death Star, if it can get the first shot in.
> 
> While the Borg can adapt to weapons fired at them, they have to survive the _first_ shot in order to adapt... which is kinda hard if your ship or Borg has just been reduced to its component atoms.
> 
> ...


Daleks always win. And this is why :3.

EXTERMINATE!

More proof


----------



## Endless Humiliation (Nov 20, 2009)

wasnat star wars made for children originally 


oh wait was into susppoed to bring tath up


----------



## Mayfurr (Nov 20, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Daleks always win. And this is why :3.
> 
> EXTERMINATE!



"It's like Stephen Hawking versus the talking clock..."

"Five million Cybermen - easy. One Doctor... _now_ you're scared!"


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 20, 2009)

Load_Blown said:


> wasnat star wars made for children originally
> 
> 
> oh wait was into susppoed to bring tath up


 

.... a sensible drunkpost?


----------



## Runefox (Nov 20, 2009)

Assuming there are multiple cubes? The Borg. Otherwise? Borg. Death Star hasn't been shown to be terribly manoeuvrable, so that one point where its beam comes out would have to lock onto a fast-moving ship, while it's designed to destroy planets, and hence is designed for much less speedy and much more predictable targets.

</geek>

Why did I respond to this? I don't even know.

It's a trap!


----------



## Toonix (Nov 20, 2009)

Thing is, if the Death Star misses a planet (even though you'd need pretty bad aim to do that) then due to the physical law that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, the Death Star would hurdle through space in the opposite direction of it's laser.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Borg tactics regarding the non-adaptable Species 8472?  Keep up the same old trick, and keep on getting blown up.  They may have some smarts, but they have absolutely no creativity or innovation.



Borg drones, no. Borg Queen, yes.


----------



## lilEmber (Nov 20, 2009)

Runefox said:


> Assuming there are multiple cubes? The Borg. Otherwise? Borg. Death Star hasn't been shown to be terribly manoeuvrable, so that one point where its beam comes out would have to lock onto a fast-moving ship, while it's designed to destroy planets, and hence is designed for much less speedy and much more predictable targets.
> 
> </geek>
> 
> ...



It can move at faster than light speeds and it's quite maneuverable. It's locking beam is also powerful enough to stop a moon so it could easily hold you in place.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Death Star hands down.

Next time on Star Wars Vs Star Trek:

Borg Vs Kiliks

Klingons Vs Mandalorians


----------



## Jashwa (Nov 20, 2009)

Ewoks vs Vulcans. 

Go.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 20, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> It can move at faster than light speeds and it's quite maneuverable. It's locking beam is also powerful enough to stop a moon so it could easily hold you in place.



The Death Star also has tractor beams so it could keep a Borg cube in place and just wail on it 'til it's destroyed.

EDIT: This thread is fun.

EDIT2: You guys keep forgetting ion cannons which can disable starships.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 20, 2009)

A Borg-assimilated Death Star would be pretty fucking awesome.


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Ewoks vs Vulcans.
> 
> Go.


 Are you mad?!  Ewoks can cast Force Storms!


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Are you mad?!  Ewoks can cast Force Storms!



What about Mandalorians Vs Klingons?


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> What about Mandalorians Vs Klingons?


Long-range: Mandalorians
Close-combat: Klingons


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Long-range: Mandalorians
> Close-combat: Klingons



Mandalorians also specialized in hand-to-hand combat.
Back in the day, Klingons looked like Puerto Ricans.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Mandalorians also specialized in hand-to-hand combat.
> Back in the day, Klingons looked like Puerto Ricans.


Klingons would win if both fighters wore only plain clothes!


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Klingons would win if both fighters wore only plain clothes!



It depends on the situation and if weapons are used, or by tactic and martial prowess.
It could be considered a draw with or without armor at all depending. 

If it was a Cathar Vs A Klingon, the Klingon would loose.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> It depends on the situation and if weapons are used, or by tactic and martial prowess.
> It could be considered a draw with or without armor at all depending.
> 
> If it was a Cathar Vs A Klingon, the Klingon would loose.


I meant unarmed.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> I meant unarmed.



Draw.


----------



## Jashwa (Nov 20, 2009)

Rancor vs Captain Kirk.  Go.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 20, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Rancor vs Captain Kirk.  Go.


LMAO at the mental image.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Rancor vs Captain Kirk.  Go.



The Deus ex machina would come and save Kirk  by making something up and having the ability to kill a rancor.


----------



## Jashwa (Nov 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> The Deus ex machina would come and save Kirk  by making something up and having the ability to kill a rancor.


I was thinking that Kirk would seduce the Rancor and they'd have babies happily ever after.

Also, I just reminded myself of Captain Qwark and the War Grok in the new Ratchet and Clank game.


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

Klingons would lose to the Mandalorians, even without the Mandalorians maintaining orbital supremacy.  Klingons just don't have the means to handle Mandalorian troops (Phasers are horribly designed weapons, so however powerful they may be a Mandalorian is going to have a much easier time aiming at and killing a Klingon from afar).


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> I was thinking that Kirk would seduce the Rancor and they'd have babies happily ever after.
> 
> Also, I just reminded myself of Captain Qwark and the War Grok in the new Ratchet and Clank game.



That's just gross.


----------



## Ozriel (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Klingons would lose to the Mandalorians, even without the Mandalorians maintaining orbital supremacy.  Klingons just don't have the means to handle Mandalorian troops (Phasers are horribly designed weapons, so however powerful they may be a Mandalorian is going to have a much easier time aiming at and killing a Klingon from afar).



lol repeating blaster rifles.


----------



## Jashwa (Nov 20, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> That's just gross.


So is William Shatner.


----------



## CaptainCool (Nov 20, 2009)

the death star can destroy a planet with a single shot... those poor poor borg XD


----------



## wendyw (Nov 20, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> The Death Star also has tractor beams so it could keep a Borg cube in place and just wail on it 'til it's destroyed.



Ah, but the Borg can deflect tractor beams in the Trek universe, so if we assume the Star Wars ones work in anyway like the Trek ones then they should be able to deflect them too.

I say that the Borg would win if they managed to get in a surprise attack and the Death Star had no previous data on them.

If they don't have the advantage of a sneak attack then it's hard to say.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 20, 2009)

wendyw said:


> Ah, but the Borg can deflect tractor beams in the Trek universe, so if we assume the Star Wars ones work in anyway like the Trek ones then they should be able to deflect them too.
> 
> I say that the Borg would win if they managed to get in a surprise attack and the Death Star had no previous data on them.
> 
> If they don't have the advantage of a sneak attack then it's hard to say.



Oh.  Yeah, that would definitely make tractor beams useless.


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

wendyw said:


> I say that the Borg would win if they managed to get in a surprise attack and the Death Star had no previous data on them.


  Star Wars Proton Torpedos are stated to range between 17-ish and 64 megatons worth of explosives each.  Using the 64 megatons calc, 3125 Photon Torpedos would match the standard SW Turbo Laser anti-ship weapon.  Not the Death Star super beam, the typical anti-capital ship weaponry.

Lower end for ST torpedos puts the Borg Cube at needing to fire over 11,000 shots before even matching a single weapon shot from 'Wars that wouldn't even be felt on the Death Star's shielding.



> If they don't have the advantage of a sneak attack then it's hard to say.


The only advantage the Borg could get from a sneak attack is making a Kamikaze run at Warp-something speeds.  Something that, if the fighting with species 8472 is any indication, will not even be conceived of for some years.


----------



## Vikar (Nov 20, 2009)

A few things that I would like to point out.


Attaman's ISD firepower calcs are a bit on the low side. The 200 gigaton figure is for the guns on an Imperial troop transport, and ISDs (ISD1s, anyway) have six devastating double superheavy turbolasers in addition to numerous other guns.
There is evidence that the Borg cannot adapt to brute force, and turbolasers are brute force weapons.
@ Azure: debate without numbers is wrong.
The 25000 ISD figure for the Empire may only be referring to fleet elements detached from sector forces. In that case, the number goes up enormously.
A single ISD can strip away the atmosphere, boil away the oceans and melt the crust of a planet in under 24 hours.
Blaster rifles do have an automatic setting. It's not normally used.
Stormtroopers were good enough to miss targets and make it appear as though they were trying to hit them.
The Empire also has millions of smaller ships, not counting starfighters.
@ Azure: lasers in SW are not real lasers.
Also @ Azure: the Death Star managed to circle Yavin in five minutes. That is not slow.



			
				Attaman said:
			
		

> Star Wars Proton Torpedos...


You mean ST Photons.



			
				Attaman said:
			
		

> The only advantage the Borg could get from a sneak attack is making a Kamikaze run at Warp-something speeds. Something that, if the fighting with species 8472 is any indication, will not even be conceived of for some years.


And even then, the Executor managed to shrug off an ISD hitting it while coming out of hyperspace.


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

Vikar said:


> You mean ST Photons.


 Ah yes, thank you.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 20, 2009)

Vikar said:


> And even then, the Executor managed to shrug off an ISD hitting it while coming out of hyperspace.



Kinda funny how it withstands that yet an A-Wing to the bridge takes it out.

Of course, that's from the movie so no telling how accurate that could be.


----------



## Vikar (Nov 20, 2009)

Shark_the_raptor said:


> Kinda funny how it withstands that yet an A-Wing to the bridge takes it out.
> 
> Of course, that's from the movie so no telling how accurate that could be.



The shields were down.


----------



## Shark_the_raptor (Nov 20, 2009)

Vikar said:


> The shields were down.



Yeah.  I um was reading about it on Wookiepedia.  >_>


----------



## Mayfurr (Nov 20, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Ewoks vs Vulcans.
> 
> Go.



This is not logical. 

Death Star vs. Shadows (Babylon 5)


----------



## blackfuredfox (Nov 20, 2009)

depends on what Death Star, the second one im pretty sure was larger, and if completed they would probably throw something over that exhaust port. then again they would probably be using a nuclear reactor over fossil fuel engines, its pretty illogical considering how much fuel is used up on one rocket to the moon that dosent even compare to the Death Star.


----------



## Duality Jack (Nov 20, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Rancor vs Captain Kirk.  Go.


Which gender of Rancor? (its kirk it REALLY matters)


----------



## Dass (Nov 20, 2009)

Why is this question cube vs. Death Star anyway? Wouldn't Star Destroyer vs. cube make more sense?

Also, taking sheer size difference between the two into account is necessary. A borg cube is apparently 27 km^3 in volume. The second Death Star is 3,052,080,000 km^3, making it seventy six million, two thousand, nine hundred sixty two point nine six times larger.

This is an important consideration.


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

Dass said:


> Why is this question cube vs. Death Star anyway? Wouldn't Star Destroyer vs. cube make more sense?


  It would, but it'd still be a curbstomp.  It's like changing the question from "Who would win a Kitten or Power Armored Bear Cavalry" to "Who would win a Kitten or Bear Cavalry":  Either way, said kitten is being splattered all over the ground.


----------



## Jashwa (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> It would, but it'd still be a curbstomp.  It's like changing the question from "Who would win a Kitten or Power Armored Bear Cavalry" to "Who would win a Kitten or Bear Cavalry":  Either way, said kitten is being splattered all over the ground.


Except that makes me sad.  Borg cubes getting squished doesn't.


----------



## Vikar (Nov 20, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> depends on what Death Star, the second one im pretty sure was larger, and if completed they would probably throw something over that exhaust port. then again they would probably be using a nuclear reactor over fossil fuel engines, its pretty illogical considering how much fuel is used up on one rocket to the moon that dosent even compare to the Death Star.



The DSII was much, much bigger. Both DSes used hypermatter reactors, and the second DS had a different exhaust system.


----------



## Ikrit (Nov 20, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> If the borg could find whatever wavelength/frequency/whatever the force travels on, and blocked/warped it, they could mindfuck vader/palpatine to the point the entire empire would crumble inside out.


to bad the force is organic and thus has no frequency


----------



## Dass (Nov 20, 2009)

I go to the trouble of calculating that the second Death Star is 76,002,962.96 times bigger than a cube and none of you even mention it?

:sad:


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 20, 2009)

also, does the death star's big cannons fire at the same frequency of all thier smaller weapons? if they all use the same type of energy for thier weapons, the borg just needa get zapped by a smaller weapon, set up sheilds, and set up shop on the star's doorstep.


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 20, 2009)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Long-range: Mandalorians
> Close-combat: Klingons


 

i still wanna see jar jar vs nelix XD


----------



## Ishnuvalok (Nov 20, 2009)

Darth. Fucking. Vader.


----------



## Dass (Nov 20, 2009)

Ishnuvalok said:


> Darth. Fucking. Vader.



is < Darth Revan.

Yes, I said that.


----------



## Ikrit (Nov 20, 2009)

Dass said:


> is < Darth Revan.
> 
> Yes, I said that.


agreed so fucking much...
but i like Darth Bane more...


----------



## Irreverent (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Either way, said kitten is being splattered all over the ground.



And 45 days later, the Empire fell to the nanogene infection the metaphorical kitten was carrying.

Space ships, even fantastical ones the mass of a small moon, still need people to run them.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Nov 20, 2009)

Irreverent said:


> And 45 days later, the Empire fell to the nanogene infection the metaphorical kitten was carrying.
> 
> Space ships, even fantastical ones the mass of a small moon, still need people to run them.



not if its got robots and a superiority complex.


----------



## Wreth (Nov 20, 2009)

IG-88 Haxorz the death star


----------



## pheonix (Nov 20, 2009)

Zoopedia said:


> IG-88 Haxorz the death star



IG-88 was a POS. The only threat he had was that damn pulse gun, other then that he was an easy boss cause he flew around and left himself open for multiple shots. [ESB for 64]


----------



## Dass (Nov 20, 2009)

Zoopedia said:


> IG-88 Haxorz the death star



Screw IG-88, HK-47 is as much more awesome as the Death Star is bigger than a cube.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Nov 20, 2009)

pheonix said:


> IG-88 was a POS. The only threat he had was that damn pulse gun, other then that he was an easy boss cause he flew around and left himself open for multiple shots. [ESB for 64]



ive played that game too, got it still, Shadows of The Empire after the train jumping right?


----------



## pheonix (Nov 20, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> ive played that game too, got it still, Shadows of The Empire after the train jumping right?



The train jumping was such bullshittery. On jedi it took me forever to get passed it cause those damn flying things took way too much health on the really long twirl part. If you missed one a few times you where fucked. >.< I loved the first cheat you get for collecting all the challenge points on I think it was easy. You get that overhead 8-bit view. That was teh sex.


----------



## RageDragon (Nov 20, 2009)

Ahem. This is a trick question. 

First energy based weapons. Borg adapt to them. If the Borq were attacking the Death Star they would attack it with multiple cubes. After a certain number of cubes had been destroyed they would *adapt* to the beam weapon. _It will not phase their ships._

Second energy based weapons on personel in the Death Star. From blasters to light sabres even if they destroy the Borg cube and only one borg cube was sent the Borg away teams would adapt to the weapons on the Death Star. Why? No frequency modulation. Jedi Force Powers like Force Lightening would be adapted to as well.

Once they have established a section of the Deathstar as theirs they will assimilate the crew of the Deathstar and rapidly build their army. The Empire troopers don't stand a chance. 

The question isn't will the Deathstar win against a Cube. It will. They would realize that a head-on attack with ships would be fruitless. Then they would hit it with the beam weapon. No the question is: Can the Borg Drones en mass defeat two Sith Lords.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Nov 20, 2009)

pheonix said:


> The train jumping was such bullshittery. On jedi it took me forever to get passed it cause those damn flying things took way too much health on the really long twirl part. If you missed one a few times you where fucked. >.< I loved the first cheat you get for collecting all the challenge points on I think it was easy. You get that overhead 8-bit view. That was teh sex.



i havent played in awhile, is it something you avtivate on the menu, or activate through a code in game?


----------



## Dass (Nov 20, 2009)

RageDragon said:


> Ahem. This is a trick question.
> 
> First energy based weapons. Borg adapt to them. If the Borq were attacking the Death Star they would attack it with multiple cubes. After a certain number of cubes had been destroyed they would *adapt* to the beam weapon. _It will not phase their ships._
> 
> ...



Ah! Goddamn deus ex machina using gits! There's gotta be a loophole somewhere...
Solid ammunition! Ramming! Some combination thereof! The force is not energy based! Desperation!


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

RageDragon said:


> First energy based weapons. Borg adapt to them. If the Borq were attacking the Death Star they would attack it with multiple cubes. After a certain number of cubes had been destroyed they would *adapt* to the beam weapon. _It will not phase their ships._


Just like how the Borg slaughtered Species 8472.



> Second energy based weapons on personel in the Death Star. From blasters to light sabres even if they destroy the Borg cube and only one borg cube was sent the Borg away teams would adapt to the weapons on the Death Star. Why? No frequency modulation. Jedi Force Powers like Force Lightening would be adapted to as well.


  Storm Trooper + Vibro Blade + Borg's horrible track record against melee weapons = shank in yo face.



> Once they have established a section of the Deathstar as theirs they will assimilate the crew of the Deathstar and rapidly build their army. The Empire troopers don't stand a chance.


  The Death Star has more numbers than the borg.  They could suffer five-to-one death-to-kill ratios and be coming out ahead if the Borg Ship managed to transport _everyone_ over before their ship got blown apart.



> The question isn't will the Deathstar win against a Cube. It will. They would realize that a head-on attack with ships would be fruitless.


Again:  Like they did with Species 8472?



> Then they would hit it with the beam weapon.


  Exactly.



> No the question is: Can the Borg Drones en mass defeat two Sith Lords.


  Considering you're giving a no limits fallacy of "Borg can adapt to anything", yeah.  But by this logic the Death Star Beam couldn't kill a Zerg Cerebrate because it isn't Dark Templar energies, or Q wouldn't be able to defeat the Borg because he's not omnipotent and eventually they could modify to his abilities.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 20, 2009)

Unicron would make mincemeat out of the Death Star


----------



## blackfuredfox (Nov 20, 2009)

this said Borg Cube, meaning one, if you use multiple cubes, break out the Star Destroyers as Banzi ships cleared of crew and only skeleton robot crew doing jack, like slaming it into one.


----------



## pheonix (Nov 20, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> i havent played in awhile, is it something you avtivate on the menu, or activate through a code in game?



When you get all the challenge points on a difficulty you unlock a code (1 for each difficulty) that's always accessible from that profile just by pausing the game. The link I sent you have more in depth cheats that are made of awesomeness.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 20, 2009)

pheonix said:


> The train jumping was such bullshittery. On jedi it took me forever to get passed it cause those damn flying things took way too much health on the really long twirl part. If you missed one a few times you where fucked. >.< I loved the first cheat you get for collecting all the challenge points on I think it was easy. You get that overhead 8-bit view. That was teh sex.



I preferred Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader. Except for the Death Star II fight (protect the Falcon the entire way was an annoyance)


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 20, 2009)

stfu about species 8472, theyre an interdementional being with DNA very different from ether setting. Last time i saw, the empire didn't have access to fluid space demensions, and all the characters appear to be identical to humans.

edit, if you wanna play the card where other species get a say in this, Q walks in, looks at everyone funny, and turns them all into rainbow sparkle shitting dildocorns.


----------



## south syde dobe (Nov 20, 2009)

My ass is stronger than the Death Star


----------



## pheonix (Nov 20, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> I preferred Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader. Except for the Death Star II fight (protect the Falcon the entire way was an annoyance)



I love all the rogue squadron games. :3 I'm the best at the "protect [insert name]" missions. I prefer the first over all though especially when they came out with the Naboo fighter cheat when ep 1 came out. And the tie interceptor was such an epic aircraft though it died in a few hits. lol


----------



## Attaman (Nov 20, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> stfu about species 8472, theyre an interdementional being with DNA very different from ether setting.


What effect does DNA have on energy weapons / being hit in hand-to-hand? :mrgreen:



> Last time i saw, the empire didn't have access to fluid space demensions, and all the characters appear to be identical to humans.


 Oh yeah, this guy looks totally like a legit and normal human.

Wait...



> edit, if you wanna play the card where other species get a say in this, Q walks in, looks at everyone funny, and turns them all into rainbow sparkle shitting dildocorns.


  And somehow, Jar-jar gets away from this un-touched.


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 20, 2009)

Attaman said:


> And somehow, Jar-jar gets away from this un-touched.


 

Q is cruel that way


----------



## RageDragon (Nov 20, 2009)

Let's compare sizes.







Borg would have to bring it all out.


----------



## MissMayhem (Nov 21, 2009)

RageDragon said:


> Let's compare sizes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

size dosent matter, when you're basically an infectious swarm over a hundred billion strong


----------



## Attaman (Nov 21, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> size dosent matter, when you're basically an infectious swarm over a hundred billion strong



And what, praytell, is defending Borg-Space while they're mass-attacking the Death Star? :mrgreen:  Or are the other Imperial Navy ships doing?

~ Meanwhile, above the Borg Queen's Planet ~

Knock knock!


----------



## Vikar (Nov 21, 2009)

To all of the "Borg adaptation, no limits fallacy, nanoprobes>all" people:



The Empire has demonstrated significant biowarfare capabilities. It is unlikely that they will be defeated by nanoprobes. Also, Sith have shown the ability to block similar nanites from infecting them.
Again, the Borg adaptation works by matching frequencies. TLs do not have frequencies. Even if they did, it wouldn't matter, since adaptation wouldn't help against a weapon orders of magnitude more powerful than the stuff they have seen.
The Empire has kinetic weapons. The Borg cannot adapt to kinetic weapons.
Something that has not been pointed out yet: the immense superiority of hyperdrive to the transwarp drive that the Borg use. The ability to outrun any Borg ship is invaluable to the Empire.



			
				MissMayhem said:
			
		

> also, does the death star's big cannons fire at the same frequency of all thier smaller weapons? if they all use the same type of energy for thier weapons, the borg just needa get zapped by a smaller weapon, set up sheilds, and set up shop on the star's doorstep.



Again, no frequency. But superlasers are more properly known as composite turbolasers. Turbolasers are simply multistage lasers. Of course, lasers in SW are not proper lasers.

Attaman, your link is broken.


----------



## Attaman (Nov 21, 2009)

Aw, this one better?


----------



## Eleziek (Nov 21, 2009)

Certain people seem butthurt over the fact that it's painfully obvious the Death Star would come out victorious here. 

I _could_ reiterate all of what Attaman has already said, but that would be redundant. 

Death Star/Empire all the way.


----------



## Telnac (Nov 21, 2009)

Death Star.  Borg may be able to assimilate its technology someday & even develop a defense against it.  But Death Star vs a single Borg cube?  The Borg will get FRIED.


----------



## Azure (Nov 21, 2009)

Is this the same empire that was defeated by like 30 ships and a few fighters from a poorly organized Rebel Alliance? Thought so :B


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

But the Borg have time-travel capabilities, as seen in Star Trek: First Contact, so they could go back in time to before the Death Star was fully operational (like they tried to assimilate Earth before the discovery of warp drive by Zefram Cochrane). But that's nit-picking.


----------



## lilEmber (Nov 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Is this the same empire that was defeated by like 30 ships and a few fighters from a poorly organized Rebel Alliance? Thought so :B



Is this the same borg cube that was defeated by a reconnaissance, enterprise class vessel?


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Is this the same borg cube that was defeated by a reconnaissance, enterprise class vessel?



There is no "Enterprise" class in Star Trek.


----------



## lilEmber (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> There is no "Enterprise" class in Star Trek.



Sorry, meant reconnaissance without the class.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> Sorry, meant reconnaissance without the class.



You mean the Defiant or maybe Voyager (Intrepid class)? (Sorry, trying to remember)


----------



## Foxstar (Nov 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Is this the same empire that was defeated by like 30 ships and a few fighters from a poorly organized Rebel Alliance? Thought so :B



It's because Palaptine let his guard down and even after he died, it took the Rebels close to 20 years to finally kill him. See, Palaptine was very good at sending his soul to a new body. And screw the Death Star, Palaptine was so powerful that he could open hyperspace wormholes by -sheer force of will- He had spies -everywhere- (Knew about the Vong 40 years before anyone else did) so finding the Borg and then just settling down and Force Storming them would be a minor issue for him. He likely had the power of Force Supernova too, but was never recorded directly using it.

And if we are going to pull the 'lol lots of Borg' angle, then we need to account that aside from the fact that Palaptine spent years and years and years building a Navy so big that close to 60 years after Endor, they still give the Rebels fits. And Palatine loved him some superweapons. One single Sun Crusher would cut a Borg invasion fleet short. And that's not counting the Tarkin, the Eclipse SSD's, Galaxy Gun, Eye of Palpatine class of ships and on and on and on.

On and even if the Borg could have tried to take control of DS2, IG-88 was running it and could  deal with them as he was a highly advanced AI.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> It's because Palaptine let his guard down and even after he died, it took the Rebels close to 20 years to finally kill him. See, Palaptine was very good at sending his soul to a new body. And screw the Death Star, Palaptine was so powerful that he could open hyperspace wormholes by -sheer force of will- He had spies -everywhere- (Knew about the Vong 40 years before anyone else did) so finding the Borg and then just settling down and Force Storming them would be a minor issue for him. He likely had the power of Force Supernova too, but was never recorded directly using it.



I don't think the books can be considered canon. Only the movies. (Even in Star Tek, the books are not considered canon, nor the animated series) Palpatine died in Episode VI, when Vader threw him down the shaft.


----------



## lilEmber (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> You mean the Defiant or maybe Voyager (Intrepid class)? (Sorry, trying to remember)



Any of the enterprises that defeated the borg were all reconnaissance vessels. They didn't have advanced shields, impulse or warp engines, weapons, or hull plating. The were good with sensors both long range and short, and nothing else, but they defeated plenty of borg cubes.


----------



## Foxstar (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> I don't think the books can be considered canon. Only the movies. (Even in Star Tek, the books are not considered canon, nor the animated series) Palpatine died in Episode VI, when Vader threw him down the shaft.



The books are C-canon and to reach C-canon, you have to have Lucasflim approval.  Most of the EU stuff was directly approved by GL. The only reason they aren't G-canon is clear.


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## Ikrit (Nov 21, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> It's because Palaptine let his guard down and even after he died, it took the Rebels close to 20 years to finally kill him. See, Palaptine was very good at sending his soul to a new body. And screw the Death Star, Palaptine was so powerful that he could open hyperspace wormholes by -sheer force of will- He had spies -everywhere- (Knew about the Vong 40 years before anyone else did) so finding the Borg and then just settling down and Force Storming them would be a minor issue for him. He likely had the power of Force Supernova too, but was never recorded directly using it.
> 
> And if we are going to pull the 'lol lots of Borg' angle, then we need to account that aside from the fact that Palaptine spent years and years and years building a Navy so big that close to 60 years after Endor, they still give the Rebels fits. And Palatine loved him some superweapons. One single Sun Crusher would cut a Borg invasion fleet short. And that's not counting the Tarkin, the Eclipse SSD's, Galaxy Gun, Eye of Palpatine class of ships and on and on and on.
> 
> On and even if the Borg could have tried to take control of DS2, IG-88 was running it and could  deal with them as he was a highly advanced AI.


the  Yuuzhan Vong would fucking KILL the borg


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

Foxstar said:


> The books are C-canon and to reach C-canon, you have to have Lucasflim approval.  Most of the EU stuff was directly approved by GL. The only reason they aren't G-canon is clear.



From Wikipedia: 

The Star Wars canon consists of the six Star Wars feature films, along with all officially licensed, non-contradicting spin-off works to the six films. As once defined by Lucas Licensing:

We have what we call Canon, which is the screenplays, novelizations, and other works that are directly tied into continuity, and then there are a lot of marginal things, like the old Marvel Comics series, that we don't really try to work into the continuity when we're planning new projects. Even the LucasArts interactive games have a premise, a backstory with player characters that we're trying to tie into the overall continuity. It is sort of a godlike undertaking. We are creating this universe as we go along, but somebody has to keep his finger on everything that came before.

â€” Allan Kausch, from The Secrets of Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire

Okay, that would include the books (Novelizations) but that still contradicts Palpatine's death in VI. Yes, I know....oh, Jedis can come back (as shown by Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin), and Palpatine was a Jedi....so yeah, I can see how it would be possible.


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## Ikrit (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> The Star Wars canon consists of the six Star Wars feature films, along with all officially licensed, non-contradicting spin-off works to the six films. As once defined by Lucas Licensing:
> 
> ...


lol wikipedia


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## lilEmber (Nov 21, 2009)

lazyredhead said:


> lol wikipedia



Works for me...


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

lazyredhead said:


> lol wikipedia



Amazing how quick people are to dismiss Wiki....


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## Dass (Nov 21, 2009)

Well, I think we all know who the real winners are.
*There's a zerg army hiding in the ground.*

Edit; now that I mention Starcraft, Protoss would probably own the hell out of a Cube, as well.


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## Ikrit (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Amazing how quick people are to dismiss Wiki....


you do know that one of the major planets come from the EU? 
coruscant wasn't his idea, it came from another book


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

lazyredhead said:


> you do know that one of the major planets come from the EU?
> coruscant wasn't his idea, it came from another book



Quote from Lucas (during interview with Cinescope magazine in July 2001):

"There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "Thereâ€™s my world, which is the movies, and thereâ€™s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe â€“ the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They donâ€™t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I donâ€™t get too involved in the parallel universe."

So the "major planet" would exist in the parellel universe, not necessarily Lucas's Star Wars universe.


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## Ikrit (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Quote from Lucas (during interview with Cinescope magazine in July 2001):
> 
> "There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "Thereâ€™s my world, which is the movies, and thereâ€™s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe â€“ the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They donâ€™t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I donâ€™t get too involved in the parallel universe."
> 
> So the "major planet" would exist in the parellel universe, not necessarily Lucas's Star Wars universe.





> *G* (George Lucas) canon is absolute canon. This category includes the six films, some of the deleted scenes from the films, the novelizations of the films, the radio dramas based on the films, the film scripts, and any material found in any other source (published or not) that comes directly from George Lucas himself. *G* canon outranks and overrides all other forms of canon when there is a contradiction.
> *C* (continuity) canon refers to the main body of EU work, and is the next most authoritative level of canon. All material published under the Star Wars label but not falling into either *G*, *S*, or *N* is *C* canon, and is considered authoritative as long as not contradicted by *G* canon. Games are a special case as generally only the stories would be "C-canon" while things like stats and gameplay are "N-canon". If the video game has several possible ends or if the player can choose the gender or the species of the main character, only one of each is considered C-canon. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon. _(This includes: the name "Coruscant", swoop bikes, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters or Action VI Transports._




but the EU is not considered non canon


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

lazyredhead said:


> [/LIST]
> but the EU is not considered non canon



Yeah, in some instances then, like the games (Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader, for instance which does have the original Wedge Antilles actor reprising his role).


----------



## Ikrit (Nov 21, 2009)

is done arguing


----------



## ZiggyTheWolf (Nov 21, 2009)

I have to ask can we have a stickied thread that places
Star Wars,
Star Trek,
Covenant,
and the entry i'd like to put forth, A race or two from Warhammer 40k (If it goes in the way of plot armor 20 space marines can cleanse a planet)

And as for Borg cube or Death Star.... Death Star and also Attaman i thouroughly enjoy how much you have researched this, done all the arguing for all us star wars people, *hands over an e-cookie*


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## RageDragon (Nov 21, 2009)

Enterprise is not a reconisance vehicle. It's a Galaxy class. D=

Also:


----------



## Mayfurr (Nov 21, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> Is this the same empire that was defeated by like 30 ships and a few fighters from a poorly organized Rebel Alliance? Thought so :B



Ah, but the Borg wouldn't know about small ray-shielded thermal exhaust ports leading down to the main reactor...


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

Mayfurr said:


> Ah, but the Borg wouldn't know about small ray-shielded thermal exhaust ports leading down to the main reactor...



Mainly because the Borg are so inter-linked, they don't actually have a main reactor or even engines on their cubes (but take out a single Node, and you'll get their attention...)


----------



## Attaman (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Mainly because the Borg are so inter-linked, they don't actually have a main reactor or even engines on their cubes (but take out a single Node, and you'll get their attention...)


They're so interlinked, that entire away teams can wander around free-reign in their vessels so long as they're not stupid enough to shoot at a Borg Drone / try hacking into the system?


Ty Vulpine said:


> I don't think the books can be considered canon. Only the movies. (Even in Star Tek, the books are not considered canon, nor the animated series) Palpatine died in Episode VI, when Vader threw him down the shaft.


Separate canon systems, as the wiki links provided pointed out.  In SW, books are canon so long as they don't contradict word-of-God (Lucas).  ST has only the series / movies as canon, SW has everything on a tier system, Warhammer has everything equally canon, Halo has Games > Novels, D&D has the canon broke down into editions, etc.


RageDragon said:


> Enterprise is not a reconisance vehicle. It's a Galaxy class. D=


Perhaps, but one must still realize the Federation is about as well equipped for war as Hawaii is for a gamma ray burst.  


Dass said:


> Well, I think we all know who the real winners are.
> *There's a zerg army hiding in the ground.*


  Meh, Zerg aren't that bad.  Hypersonic 9mm rifle resistance is impressive in low-tier sci-fi, but once you start working up the ladder you come across Sci-Fi realms which consider a beam capable of firing through 500m of solid stone a "secondary" fire feature on their main infantry guns.


> Edit; now that I mention Starcraft, Protoss would probably own the hell out of a Cube, as well.


  Protoss are unknown, when it comes to space assets.  When it comes to infantry:  Yeah, they'd kick ass.  A single Zealot could take out his age in Drones provided they follow their traditional tactics.  However, in space the only solid numbers Protoss have are for their anti-planet weaponry (which is Teraton grade firepower).  We don't know if they can use the same weapons (or ones more or less powerful) when pulling anti-ship combat procedures.


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

Attaman said:


> They're so interlinked, that entire away teams can wander around free-reign in their vessels so long as they're not stupid enough to shoot at a Borg Drone / try hacking into the system?



Yes, because the Borg usually don't consider someone beaming onto the ship (even armed!) a threat until the person starts shooting Borgs, or their equipment or interfering in some way, as has been shown numerous times (first in Best of Both Worlds, and multiple times after). You literally can walk around inside a Borg cube and they'll ignore you, since you're not a threat to the Collective.


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## Attaman (Nov 21, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> You literally can walk around inside a Borg cube and they'll ignore you, since you're not a threat to the Collective.


And no one's thought to just teleport onto a Borg Cube, find a USB port, and jack in a few videos from weebls to shatter the Borg Collective's intelligence?


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 21, 2009)

Attaman said:


> And no one's thought to just teleport onto a Borg Cube, find a USB port, and jack in a few videos from weebls to shatter the Borg Collective's intelligence?



They'd consider that a threat and send drones after you. They can't stand biological nanonites (as shown in Voyager's "Endgame") but they can repel an attack like that.


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## RageDragon (Nov 21, 2009)

I wonder if the Sith could influence the Borg collective.


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## ZiggyTheWolf (Nov 21, 2009)

Necrons would hand the asses to all of em, but then again so would tyranids, chaos and potentialy orks in their own "very special" way.


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## RageDragon (Nov 21, 2009)

I'd say gtfo Wargamer but the image of an Ork Deathstar popped in my mind. I wanna see it now. D:


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## Attaman (Nov 21, 2009)

RageDragon said:


> I'd say gtfo Wargamer but the image of an Ork Deathstar popped in my mind. I wanna see it now. D:


Do they paint it yellow for more Dakka, or paint it red so it goes fasta?


			
				Brinster said:
			
		

> Necrons would hand the asses to all of em,


  If it were all the necrons vs one of the OP things, yeah.  But even numbers, I don't think Necrons could take down the DS without a very good / big boarding party.  Only reason the rebels won was they knew the weak point and could exploit it:  Normal fleet-sized engagements would result in turbo lasers pummeling the larger ships to oblivion while the DS's shields hold out for hours / weeks.


> but then again so would tyranids,


The Tyranids ate twelve whole galaxies, and can eat so far down into planets that the mean radius drops by several kilometers.  They could just suicide-gather themselves into tight enough bundles that they start forming black holes and it'd still be a winning tactic.


> chaos


  Maybe Nurgle could do well against Borg, but the other gods wouldn't be gaining much.  Empire would be a lot of Tzeentchian boons / banes.


> and potentialy orks in their own "very special" way.


Star Wars Rogue Leader Deff Skwadron?


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## Mayfurr (Nov 21, 2009)

Death Star vs. Shadow Planet Killer?

In this case, the Shadows would win. Definitely.


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## PenningtontheSkunk (Nov 21, 2009)

Death Star all the way!

Its the size of a planet.

Besides Darth Vader ROCX!!!


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## ZiggyTheWolf (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman i truly like your style,
You are a good egg in my books sir.

And as for the number of necrons, so far only scouting level forces have been seen,
God (and/or emperor i guess depending on where you stand) knows what would happen if their actual full military force woke up.

And dont forget that 3 necrons scout vessels managed to penetrate the defences of mars and actually touch its sanctified soil,

But entering Warhammer 40k races into this has a problem, they are all written up to be on the verge of unleashing their full uberness and thus leaving fanboys (and in some bizare non-existent world fangirls) to always fall back on that 
[insert favorite race] hasnt shown their full strength yet and thus are more powerful than everything.


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## JarlArild (Nov 22, 2009)

Isnâ€™t  that an unfair match? I mean isnâ€™t the Borg Cube the Borg version of a capital class starship and a that Death Star is a space station, whereas the Imperial Star Destroyer is the Empires capital class starship. So how would the Borgâ€™s capital ship the Cube fair verses An Imperial capital starship Star Destroyer or a Supper Star Destroyer.  I believe that the Empire would win in that fight because they have better engines, they have explored almost their entire galaxy whereas to the best of my knowledge the Borg have only explored a few quadrants of their own. Gun wise I donâ€™t know, but shielding Empire would win I mean it takes several ships to bring down a Star Destroyer whereas the Enterprise took out a Borg Cube by itself. The only real advantage for the Borg that I see would be their ability to transport.


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## whiteskunk (Nov 22, 2009)

The Borg Cube no question. It can manuever faster than the Death Star plus the Borg can transport into key areas and take control of the crew-specifically the Death Stars main weapon and the control center.


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## Raul (Nov 22, 2009)

Only if they can take down the Death Star's shields. Not even Borg can transport through shields. They have to drain them first. Also the Death star has hundreds of thousands of TIE fighters and TIE bombers. So its not just the Star thats a problem, its the smaller fighters swarming out of it. 

Also, has anyone said "Infinity Modulator" yet? 'cause if the crew of the Voyager can build one, The Empire with near limitless resources certainly can.


----------



## Wreth (Nov 22, 2009)

Heart of gold ftw


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

Raul said:


> Only if they can take down the Death Star's shields. Not even Borg can transport through shields. They have to drain them first. Also the Death star has hundreds of thousands of TIE fighters and TIE bombers. So its not just the Star thats a problem, its the smaller fighters swarming out of it.
> 
> Also, has anyone said "Infinity Modulator" yet? 'cause if the crew of the Voyager can build one, The Empire with near limitless resources certainly can.



Tie Fighters and Tie Bombers are about a little bigger than a Starfleet Shuttlecraft, and a single Borg cube can withstand 40+ Fleet vessels (as seen at Wolf 359 and also at the beginning of First Contact, until the Enterprise showed up). Now imagine a whole FLEET of Borg cubes. The ISDs would certainly give the cubes a run for their money, but the Fighters and Bombers would be like flies to a Borg cube.


----------



## Dass (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Protoss are unknown, when it comes to space assets.  When it comes to infantry:  Yeah, they'd kick ass.  A single Zealot could take out his age in Drones provided they follow their traditional tactics.  However, in space the only solid numbers Protoss have are for their anti-planet weaponry (which is Teraton grade firepower).  We don't know if they can use the same weapons (or ones more or less powerful) when pulling anti-ship combat procedures.



Well as you mentioned;



Attaman said:


> They're so interlinked, that entire away teams can wander around free-reign in their vessels so long as they're not stupid enough to shoot at a Borg Drone / try hacking into the system?



So the Protoss could theoretically find some way of warping on to their ship and then take it over with an extreme amount of ease.

Also, MOTHERSHIPS CAN MAKE BLACK HOLES! Making it a pretty badass space weapon.


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## Attaman (Nov 22, 2009)

whiteskunk said:


> plus the Borg can transport into key areas and take control of the crew-specifically the Death Stars main weapon and the control center.


We're talking the same Borg that can have attempts at seizing the bridge stopped by an android, klingon, and handful of unarmored officers with weapons Borg have already started developing protection against, yes?

Also, it's not like the DS crew couldn't just push the drones over a ledge.  For once, the lack of safety rails is a blessing for the Empire!


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman said:


> We're talking the same Borg that can have attempts at seizing the bridge stopped by an android, klingon, and handful of unarmored officers with weapons Borg have already started developing protection against, yes?
> 
> Also, it's not like the DS crew couldn't just push the drones over a ledge.  For once, the lack of safety rails is a blessing for the Empire!



Even though they're not known for their intelligence, the Borg are incredibly strong. Even stronger than a Klingon (even Worf, an accomplished fighter, has been beaten in hand-to-hand combat by them). Data is a match for them, but few humans are.


----------



## Gnome (Nov 22, 2009)

borgs couldent gert close enough for "assimilations" lol


...and they would think vader was one of there own lol


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

Gnome said:


> borgs couldent gert close enough for "assimilations" lol
> 
> 
> ...and they would think vader was one of there own lol



They would consider Vader as "obsolete". And even a single Jedi/Sith would tire out against an entire shipful of Borgs.


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## Mayfurr (Nov 22, 2009)

Zoopedia said:


> Heart of gold ftw



That's infinitely improbable, sorry 

_<watches Death Star suddenly turn into a bowl of petunias and a surprised-looking sperm whale over Endor>_


----------



## lilEmber (Nov 22, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> They would consider Vader as "obsolete". And even a single Jedi/Sith would tire out against an entire shipful of Borgs.



No they wouldn't...Jedi/sith used to fight in several hundred thousand man wars, and they'd be out in the center of it all and win.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> No they wouldn't...Jedi/sith used to fight in several hundred thousand man wars, and they'd be out in the center of it all and win.



Hmmm, I find that a little hard to believe, considering that several couldn't even win a 5-against-1 battle (Revenge of the Sith). Only Yoda, and he was smaller than the others. Granted, he only faced 2 opponents. *Shrugs* No matter, I'll take your word for it.


----------



## whiteskunk (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman said:


> We're talking the same Borg that can have attempts at seizing the bridge stopped by an android, klingon, and handful of unarmored officers with weapons Borg have already started developing protection against, yes?
> 
> Also, it's not like the DS crew couldn't just push the drones over a ledge.  For once, the lack of safety rails is a blessing for the Empire!



All quite true. Alternatively, the Borg could do as R2D2 did. Take control via an unguarded computer section then the DS would be theirs.


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## Attaman (Nov 22, 2009)

Mayfurr said:


> _<watches Death Star suddenly turn into a bowl of petunias and a surprised-looking sperm whale over Endor>_


The last thought going through the mind of the petunias "Not again."?


whiteskunk said:


> All quite true. Alternatively, the Borg could do as R2D2 did. Take control via an unguarded computer section then the DS would be theirs.


  Wasn't the computer unguarded done after Han & Luke seized a command room?  Or are you speaking that one prequel scene where R2's left on its own while Anakin & Obi-Wan went to rescue the Pope?


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Wasn't the computer unguarded done after Han & Luke seized a command room?  Or are you speaking that one prequel scene where R2's left on its own while Anakin & Obi-Wan went to rescue the Pope?



Yes.


----------



## whiteskunk (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman said:


> The last thought going through the mind of the petunias "Not again."?
> Wasn't the computer unguarded done after Han & Luke seized a command room?  Or are you speaking that one prequel scene where R2's left on its own while Anakin & Obi-Wan went to rescue the Pope?



It's been far to long since I watched SW. I kind of thought R2 and C3PO went into the computer room to hide and I could be wrong, but thought it was unguarded. The scene where R2 was trying to shut down the waste disposal.


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

whiteskunk said:


> It's been far to long since I watched SW. I kind of thought R2 and C3PO went into the computer room to hide and I could be wrong, but thought it was unguarded. The scene where R2 was trying to shut down the waste disposal.



No, they originally went in there with Han and Luke to try to find out where Leia was being held, then Luke and Han left them there so as to not attract attention.


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## Unsilenced (Nov 22, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Also, it's not like the DS crew couldn't just push the drones over a ledge.  For once, the lack of safety rails is a blessing for the Empire!



Anyone else want to see a Borg do a Wilhelm scream?


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Nov 22, 2009)

Unsilenced said:


> Anyone else want to see a Borg do a Wilhelm scream?



Or a Goofy Holler...


----------



## Unsilenced (Nov 22, 2009)

"Wilhelm is on mars!? Man, this guy is EVERYWHERE!"


----------



## Gaius_Baltar (Nov 23, 2009)

Alright.
Time for a very long argument for why the Borg cube would win.

The Borg cube would easily be able to drop out of a trans-warp conduit right next to the DS, giving them zero warning. The cube can easily beam a fuck-ton of drones into the DS. If their shields are up; the borg would quickly adapt, if they cannot adapt; then they'd quickly launch any vessels they had, or simply launch drones themselves at the hull, since they can function in a vacuum.

Once at the hull; it shouldn't be that hard for at least a few to penetrate the hull and inject some nanites into the ship's systems at any sort of conduits. This wouldn't do much at first, but a singe drone would be able to deactivate the sensors in the area it's in, and probably be able to start accessing control to other systems though there.

Drones would definitely be vulnerable to any blaster fire. But after 2 or 3 shots to any one drone would allow them to adapt, and make every single drone invulnerable. same thing for light-sabers, for they are simply a blaster-fire frozen in place, and run on the same basic technology as a blaster.

Any storm-troopers, or simple minions would of course have no idea what to do to properly fight borg. therefore to any person without knoledge of what the borg are would probably attempt a physical attack in a one-on-one fight against a drone if their blasters no longer affected them.
If a single trooper does this. Blammo; he gets injected with nanites, and in a few intensely painfull moments becomes a drone himself. They won't have any exo-armour, adapted eye or anything. but still a drone capable of assimilating others.

They thus would be unstoppable if a single drone got in and got lucky by assimilating a few people before being shot, or if even just a few drones got in.

There is the argument that if there's anyone that can use the force is on the DS; the Borg would be screwed. But the Borg could spread nanites though the entire ship though the ventilation system, and whoever can use the force would be helpless to stop that, and would themselves be assimilated.

Plus; it could be more than an hour before the officers of the ship notice or are informed of what had happened. 

Plus; it probably would only take minutes for the first drones in the DS to find and transmit the shield specs back to the cube; which would then simply beam in a fair chunk of their 'crew', which can get up to 50,000 drones for the larger cubes the collective has.

The Death-Star has much more brute force.
But the Borg's tactics, behavior and ability to assimilate and adapt would mean that they'd soon add a very large Borg sphere to their collective.


----------



## Conker (Nov 23, 2009)

Brings back fond memories of elementary school arguing about star wars and star trek.

I shall always pick Star Wars :3


----------



## Azure (Nov 23, 2009)

This thread is beyond gay at this point.  Hey guys, lets argue fictional weapon specs based off of science that doesn't exist yet.


----------



## Vikar (Nov 23, 2009)

Gaius_Baltar said:


> The Borg cube would easily be able to drop out of a trans-warp conduit right next to the DS, giving them zero warning. The cube can easily beam a fuck-ton of drones into the DS. If their shields are up; the borg would quickly adapt, if they cannot adapt; then they'd quickly launch any vessels they had, or simply launch drones themselves at the hull, since they can function in a vacuum.


The shields would be up, and we have seen transporters have problems with heavy elements before. The armour used on Imperial ships is very heavy.



Gaius_Baltar said:


> Once at the hull; it shouldn't be that hard for at least a few to penetrate the hull and inject some nanites into the ship's systems at any sort of conduits. This wouldn't do much at first, but a singe drone would be able to deactivate the sensors in the area it's in, and probably be able to start accessing control to other systems though there.


They can't get in, and what makes you think that they would even be able to interface with the computers of the Death Star? Even if they did, after the Katana Fleet incident SW ships stay away from central control over all systems.



Gaius_Baltar said:


> Drones would definitely be vulnerable to any blaster fire. But after 2 or 3 shots to any one drone would allow them to adapt, and make every single drone invulnerable. same thing for light-sabers, for they are simply a blaster-fire frozen in place, and run on the same basic technology as a blaster.


The Borg adapt to weapons fire by changing the frequency on their shields. Blasters have no frequency. 



Gaius_Baltar said:


> Any storm-troopers, or simple minions would of course have no idea what to do to properly fight borg. therefore to any person without knoledge of what the borg are would probably attempt a physical attack in a one-on-one fight against a drone if their blasters no longer affected them.
> If a single trooper does this. Blammo; he gets injected with nanites, and in a few intensely painfull moments becomes a drone himself. They won't have any exo-armour, adapted eye or anything. but still a drone capable of assimilating others.


Borg are slow. They do not run or even walk, they shuffle. It's very likely that the troopers would be able to avoid the nanite injector and do critical damage. All of this assumes that their blasters don't work, which is not the case.



Gaius_Baltar said:


> They thus would be unstoppable if a single drone got in and got lucky by assimilating a few people before being shot, or if even just a few drones got in.


The DS does have sealable compartments. They could simply lock the drones somewhere until they run out of power.



Gaius_Baltar said:


> There is the argument that if there's anyone that can use the force is on the DS; the Borg would be screwed. But the Borg could spread nanites though the entire ship though the ventilation system, and whoever can use the force would be helpless to stop that, and would themselves be assimilated.


Even if they could do that, Sith (Darth Bane in particular) have shown the ability to resist nanites almost exactly like the Borg Nanoprobes, at least in function.



Gaius_Baltar said:


> Plus; it could be more than an hour before the officers of the ship notice or are informed of what had happened.


It could be. But you're making assumptions.



Gaius_Baltar said:


> Plus; it probably would only take minutes for the first drones in the DS to find and transmit the shield specs back to the cube; which would then simply beam in a fair chunk of their 'crew', which can get up to 50,000 drones for the larger cubes the collective has.


There are twenty-six thousand stormtroopers on the Death Star. There are over six hundred thousand normal troops aboard as well.



			
				AzurePhoenix said:
			
		

> This thread is beyond gay at this point. Hey guys, lets argue fictional weapon specs based off of science that doesn't exist yet.


You're just jealous that we know our faggotons from our teratons.


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## Dass (Nov 23, 2009)

Gaius_Baltar said:


> Alright.
> Time for a very long argument for why the Borg cube would win.
> 
> The Borg cube would easily be able to drop out of a trans-warp conduit right next to the DS, giving them zero warning. The cube can easily beam a fuck-ton of drones into the DS. If their shields are up; the borg would quickly adapt, if they cannot adapt; then they'd quickly launch any vessels they had, or simply launch drones themselves at the hull, since they can function in a vacuum.
> ...



All very good points, but we can't go about forgetting that a borg cube is 1/76,002,956.96 the size of the Death Star, thus making it a prime ramming target.

Also, see above post.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Borg cube :/

The deathstar's laser can't shoot moving shit. It's too slow. Borg would just side strafe and teleport borg units in. Assimilate everyone.

also, borg fusion cube, gg.




AzurePhoenix said:


> This thread is beyond gay at this point. Hey guys, lets argue fictional species based off of magic that doesn't exist yet.



Fixed for furries.



Vikar said:


> The shields would be up, and we have seen transporters have problems with heavy elements before. The armour used on Imperial ships is very heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



by shields, do you mean deflectors?

Adaptability.

Blasters are lasers, therefore have frequency.

Borg are stronger than most humans. They'd simply hold the stormtrooper still and assimilate him.

Borg would open the doors after they assimilated the systems.

The jedi/sith wouldn't be able to resist something biological. That also takes mere seconds to overtake the system.

The borg have millions of cubes and billions Troops. GG


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## Dass (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Borg cube :/
> 
> The deathstar's laser can't shoot moving shit. It's too slow. Borg would just side strafe and teleport borg units in. Assimilate everyone.



It also has "15000 lasers, ion, turbolasers batteries, and heavy turbolasers in all plus an additional 768 tractor beam emplacements" (wookieepedia).

It would either A) use those 15k lasers, or B) use those 768 tractor beams to hold the damn thing still.

And it is still 76,002,962.96 times bigger, so a ram would be equally devastating.


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## Vikar (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Borg cube :/
> 
> The deathstar's laser can't shoot moving shit. It's too slow. Borg would just side strafe and teleport borg units in. Assimilate everyone.
> 
> also, borg fusion cube, gg.



It's not as though the DS only has the superlaser.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Dass said:


> It also has "15000 lasers, ion, turbolasers batteries, and heavy turbolasers in all plus an additional 768 tractor beam emplacements" (wookieepedia).
> 
> It would either A) use those 15k lasers, or B) use those 768 tractor beams to hold the damn thing still.
> 
> And it is still 76,002,962.96 times bigger, so a ram would be equally devastating.


The borg have rammed their own ships into others just to assimilate them. They'd probably do the same for this.

Not to mention the borg have enough cubes to make two deathstars :/


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Not to mention the borg have enough cubes to make two deathstars :/


Or one hell of a Rubick's cube.


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## Vikar (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> The borg have rammed their own ships into others just to assimilate them. They'd probably do the same for this.



It doesn't matter, since the DS can always jump out before they manage to ram it. TLs have light minute ranges too, so the Empire can fire on them from a distance while they make their ramming runs.


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## Duality Jack (Nov 23, 2009)

If the deaths star can Asplode a planed a cube would be easy/.


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## Attaman (Nov 23, 2009)

Gaius_Baltar said:


> The Borg cube would easily be able to drop out of a trans-warp conduit right next to the DS, giving them zero warning.


  And every single one of those 15,000 laser batteries is going to be unmanned.  The Space Station meant to withstand fleet assaults will never expect to be assaulted by a capital ship!


> The cube can easily beam a fuck-ton of drones into the DS.


I have a link I'd like you to look at.  Specifically (and yes, I realize that there's a story-like hint to the dialogue as though you're being spoken to by a Warsie):


			
				The Link said:
			
		

> Transporters cannot function through shields. Although Federation cultists repeatedly point out that transport has indeed occurred through shields in the past, it must be noted that defects, seams, or known weaknesses in the shields were exploited in these incidents, rather than a new method of simply transporting directly through a full-strength shield. This means that nothing can be transported in combat unless the target vessel's shields are dropped first.
> Transporters require very precise information about the transport site. Without accurate scans, a transported subject is likely to materialize partially inside another piece of matter (the ground on a planetary surface, or a bulkhead, wall, or door in a starship). This would be instantly fatal, so sensor-jamming can effectively block transporters even in the event of shield failure.





> If their shields are up; the borg would quickly adapt, if they cannot adapt; then they'd quickly launch any vessels they had, or simply launch drones themselves at the hull, since they can function in a vacuum.


  And how, praytell, would the drones get through the armor intended to stand kiloton-plus grade weaponry?  And I'd also like an explanation of why the out-of-context problem of Species 8472 would be _so_ different from the out-of-context problem of the Death Star.


> Once at the hull; it shouldn't be that hard for at least a few to penetrate the hull and inject some nanites into the ship's systems at any sort of conduits.


  What Conduits?  They'd be injecting nanites into solid metal, with nothing but solid metal around them.  You don't make a moon sized space station intended for anti-fleet / planetary work with hull armor thinner than a shiv.


> This wouldn't do much at first, but a singe drone would be able to deactivate the sensors in the area it's in, and probably be able to start accessing control to other systems though there.


  And during this procedure, what exactly is going to happen to the Borg Cube while it's taking dozens / hundreds / thousands of turbo laser shots (or in other words, Teratons-to-Petatons of explosive force comparable to being hit by millions of ST Phasers, Photon Torpedoes, etcetera)?


> But after 2 or 3 shots to any one drone would allow them to adapt, and make every single drone invulnerable.


  Vibro-blades, E-Webs, Heavy Blasters, different pattern blasters / blaster pistols, thermal detonators, it's kinda a good thing SW doesn't arm all their troopers with the exact same weapon 100% of the time.  


> same thing for light-sabers, for they are simply a blaster-fire frozen in place, and run on the same basic technology as a blaster.


  Blaster Fire is done through a crystal?  No wonder there's such a shortage of red lightsabers:  All their crystals are being used for blaster weapons.


> If a single trooper does this. Blammo; he gets injected with nanites,


Provided none of them are in possession of Vibro-blades, then yes.  Also provided the Drone can get a good jab in on a Storm Trooper, considering their usual foes seem to have absolutely no concept of personal armor.


> They thus would be unstoppable if a single drone got in and got lucky by assimilating a few people before being shot, or if even just a few drones got in.


  Because, again, there's only one type of Star Wars ranged weapon and the Storm Troopers have no grenades, melee weapons, or anything of the sort.  The Borg also have a 100% adaption rate against any weapon used against them.


> But the Borg could spread nanites though the entire ship though the ventilation system,


They could... but do they?  Would they, normally, do so?

Star Trek is technically unbeatable when you factor in all the time manipulation items, tech of the week, apt use of teleporters, etcetera. But you know what?  They never do it.  It's not in their tactics list.  Whenever the Enterprise's shields went down, the immediate response was not to teleport Borg throughout the entire ship and spam nanites into every ventilation shaft.  No, it was teleport small away teams at a time into the bridge of the Enterprise and wait until either shields were restored or control was achieved.


> and whoever can use the force would be helpless to stop that, and would themselves be assimilated.


  So, if I get the gist of your argument:
Borg are going to start with tactics they normally don't use, work without a hitch, board without a hitch, DS crew is going to run around like chicken with head cut off, Borg will mass-spam nanites intelligently to infect high-priority targets, and will take out the space station that outnumbers, out guns, out speeds, out shields, out masses, and out-equips them with minimal casualties?


> Plus; it could be more than an hour before the officers of the ship notice or are informed of what had happened.


 ...  Yeah, I think we have a member here from Star Fleet Jedi.  Lemme ask you something:  How long did it take the Death Star to notice the much smaller Millenium Falcon?


> Plus; it probably would only take minutes for the first drones in the DS to find and transmit the shield specs back to the cube; which would then simply beam in a fair chunk of their 'crew', which can get up to 50,000 drones for the larger cubes the collective has.


  Again, Borg tactics we normally don't see.



> But the Borg's tactics,


 The Borg's fanon tactics, not the Borg's canon tactics.


> behavior and ability to assimilate and adapt would mean that they'd soon add a very large Borg sphere to their collective.


  No, it means that the Death Star would get a message from point-blank range saying "We're going to fuck your shit up if you don't surrender", laugh, fire a single turbolaser, then laugh more when said turbo laser shuts down the Borg's shields, overloads their generators, and reduces at least part of the hull to molten slag.


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## Attaman (Nov 23, 2009)

AzurePhoenix said:


> This thread is beyond gay at this point.  Hey guys, lets argue fictional weapon specs based off of science that doesn't exist yet.


  I have three books with at least a dozen bookmarks in them for easy citing.  I have at least four quantification sites bookmarked online, in addition to a "heat to melt iron" calculator.  Somewhere in my bookshelf is a hastily copied page including specific heat and melting temperatures of various elements / materials.  Guess what I am? :V


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Attaman said:


> I have three books with at least a dozen bookmarks in them for easy citing.  I have at least four quantification sites bookmarked online, in addition to a "heat to melt iron" calculator.  Somewhere in my bookshelf is a hastily copied page including specific heat and melting temperatures of various elements / materials.  Guess what I am? :V


and the borg would continue to jump out of TW right next to the deathstar, ram into, send more, ram into it. Borg have billions. Deathstar, not so much.

As stated before, the deathstar has turrets. One drone could easily  get in through that. if not, use the wiring in it.

Also : Torpedoes, How much heat does fifty isotons generate?


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## Dass (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> and the borg would continue to jump out of TW right next to the deathstar, ram into, send more, ram into it. Borg have billions. Deathstar, not so much.



If warping is anything similar to hyperspace travel, the Death Star's gravity well is going to take that tactic completely out of the equation.

Also you're assuming the entire borg arsenal would be going against the Death Star alone.

Star Destroyers called, they want in.


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## Attaman (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Also : Torpedoes, How much heat does fifty isotons generate?


If we go by the linear "25 Isotons out of a 1.5kg antimater explosion" calcs, then it'd be around 128 megatons of explosive power.  If we go by the dialogue in ST, it'd be "enough to destroy a small planet".  One of these two calcs makes sense, the other doesn't.  Care to guess which makes less?


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## Ikrit (Nov 23, 2009)

heres a video of the borg meeting the empire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CxWSCTsTEw
and it's true


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Attaman said:


> If we go by the linear "25 Isotons out of a 1.5kg antimater explosion" calcs, then it'd be around 128 megatons of explosive power.  If we go by the dialogue in ST, it'd be "enough to destroy a small planet".  One of these two calcs makes sense, the other doesn't.  Care to guess which makes less?


I've never seen a Torpedo destroy a planet.

Maybe a modified one.

There are as many types of torpedoes as there are bullets.

So how hot does 128 MT get?

The tsar was 100 right?

So considering borg cubes carry ten  to thirty of them.

How much damage could those do if all pointed at one spot?


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## blackfuredfox (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> I've never seen a Torpedo destroy a planet.
> 
> Maybe a modified one.
> 
> ...



Tsar Bomba was 57 Megatons.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> Tsar Bomba was 57 Megatons.


My bad. Anywho. Biggest bomb ever exploded on the planet. is 57, how much is 128.


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## Vikar (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> My bad. Anywho. Biggest bomb ever exploded on the planet. is 57, how much is 128.



Insignificant next to the power of the Force. Or the Death Star.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

double post due to something or another.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Vikar said:


> Insignificant compared to the power of the Force. Or the Death Star.


'cause vader can use the force in such an extent to push faster than sound objects. He can even slow time... wait.. Oh, that's the matrix!


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## Dass (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> I've never seen a Torpedo destroy a planet.
> 
> Maybe a modified one.
> 
> ...



The death star's laser has to do something in the range of 23.9 Zettatonnes. (yes, that's a real unit of measurement)

Which do you think has more of an impact?


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Dass said:


> The death star's laser has to do something in the range of 2390000000000000 MT.
> 
> Which do you think has more of an impact?


The cube has the ability to side strafe.


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## Attaman (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> I've never seen a Torpedo destroy a planet.
> 
> Maybe a modified one.


The quote's from Voyager.  According to Wiki:  "Kim comments that 50 isotons would have been sufficient to destroy a small planet."



> So how hot does 128 MT get?


  Exact heat, I cannot give.  One could however go through the lengthy process of converting 128 megatons into joules (you'd probably wind up with a Gigajoule / Terajoule / Petajoule number) and from there use that number to compare / contrast with other objects to see how rapidly it'd heat them up.  Going by water for instance, you'd seemingly be able to shift 250,146,198 _tons_ of it from 4 degrees celsius to vapor with 128 megatons.  Iron would beslightly more than a third of that.



> So considering borg cubes carry ten  to thirty of them.


  Unfortunately, 10-30 128MT explosives maxes out at around 1.28GT-3.84GT.  Star Wars Turbo Lasers are 200 Gigatons a shot in regards to capital ship weaponry.



> How much damage could those do if all pointed at one spot?


  If the shields are up?  Nothing.  However, SW is noted for its hulls being noticeably weaker than its shielding.  If it were unshielded, well, probably some pretty hefty damage.


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## Dass (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> The cube has the ability to side strafe.



The Death Star has 768 tractor beams.

And ion cannons.

Also note that 23.9 Zt is likely enough to vaporize a cube *without actually hitting it*.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

Attaman said:


> The quote's from Voyager.  According to Wiki:  "Kim comments that 50 isotons would have been sufficient to destroy a small planet."
> 
> Exact heat, I cannot give.  One could however go through the lengthy process of converting 128 megatons into joules (you'd probably wind up with a Gigajoule / Terajoule / Petajoule number) and from there use that number to compare / contrast with other objects to see how rapidly it'd heat them up.  Going by water for instance, you'd seemingly be able to shift 250,146,198 _tons_ of it from 4 degrees celsius to vapor with 128 megatons.  Iron would beslightly more than a third of that.
> 
> ...


Deflectors you mean. I remember Deflectors.

which , I imagine can't actually deflect physical objects.


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## Azure (Nov 23, 2009)

Attaman said:


> I have three books with at least a dozen bookmarks in them for easy citing.  I have at least four quantification sites bookmarked online, in addition to a "heat to melt iron" calculator.  Somewhere in my bookshelf is a hastily copied page including specific heat and melting temperatures of various elements / materials.  Guess what I am? :V


A retard.


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## blackfuredfox (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> My bad. Anywho. Biggest bomb ever exploded on the planet. is 57, how much is 128.



a little under 3 times the force, though not 3 times the radius or such.


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## Vikar (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> Deflectors you mean. I remember Deflectors.
> 
> which , I imagine can't actually deflect physical objects.



Both ray and particle shields are employed on the Death Star. Particle shields are effective in stopping objects.


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## Sinjo (Nov 23, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> a little under 3 times the force, though not 3 times the radius or such.


which would be the rough equivalent to holding a blow torch to sheet metal, yes?


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## blackfuredfox (Nov 23, 2009)

Sinjo said:


> which would be the rough equivalent to holding a blow torch to sheet metal, yes?



well, i dont know, no one made a nuclear weapon bigger, and honestly i think they never should, that is a bit to destructive even for me, One Megaton vs. Detroit, about 30 miles from Ground Zero, is going to have serious problems.


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## whiteskunk (Nov 24, 2009)

A way to avoid a battle between the two. Vader bangs the Borg Queen.


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## Mayfurr (Nov 25, 2009)

whiteskunk said:


> A way to avoid a battle between the two. Vader bangs the Borg Queen.



MIND BLEACH!


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## wendyw (Nov 25, 2009)

I've changed my mind after being reminded how stupid the Borg actually are. The Death Star would most likely win even if the Borg did a surprise attack. 

Although I still think the Borg have all the resources they'd need to take over they wouldn't use them correctly. Unless they have a direct link to the queen then they'd be pretty much useless if beaten in the numbers game. They should be able to win easily, but as others have mentioned they're not that good at coming up with new strategies. 

The one exception would be if the cube was under direct control of the queen, but why would she bother unless they'd had multiple run ins already? If they have run against each other before then the element of surprise is lost.

The rogue Borg from TNG would potentially be smart enough, but there isn't enough of them and they don't actually own a cube, so not much use there.

And as for everybody saying about all the cubes they have in their fleet, the original question was one on one. Sure, they'd probably launch a larger assault if they got a message back from one cube reporting the Death Star and then that cube went missing, but that's not really the question.


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 25, 2009)

MissMayhem said:


> Discuss
> also note, if the borg won, theyd fuggin assimilate darth vader, access his knowledge, and harness/refine the jedi powers. aka we would all be fucked.



This was the OP's post. Doesn't say anything about a SINGLE Borg cube. And of course, all the Borg would need to do is assimilate one or two DS command personnel, and then the Borg would have all the information about the DS they would need.


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## Attaman (Nov 25, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> This was the OP's post. Doesn't say anything about a SINGLE Borg cube.


OP doesn't mention then that the Death Star 2 can't be used as well, nor as many Death Stars as the Empire wants to build (it was not a be all end all project:  The Death Star Mk1 was built over a single planet in a few years time and kept secret from the public).  You also void all denial of fleets docking inside the Death Star then, meaning Star Destroyers can be brought into the equation as well.



> And of course, all the Borg would need to do is assimilate one or two DS command personnel, and then the Borg would have all the information about the DS they would need.


  No, they wouldn't.  This is akin to saying "If I kidnap and torture a naval vessel's captain, I can reverse engineer it's ships railguns, its 1xxmm guns, can build aircraft carriers, and have access to depth charges".  It doesn't work that way.  They assimilate a command personnel they acquire the names of a lot of crew, maybe know how to fire (not how to make) a SW weapon or three, and have a sudden dread of telling a man in black that they failed in their mission.


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## Ty Vulpine (Nov 25, 2009)

Attaman said:


> No, they wouldn't.  This is akin to saying "If I kidnap and torture a naval vessel's captain, I can reverse engineer it's ships railguns, its 1xxmm guns, can build aircraft carriers, and have access to depth charges".  It doesn't work that way.  They assimilate a command personnel they acquire the names of a lot of crew, maybe know how to fire (not how to make) a SW weapon or three, and have a sudden dread of telling a man in black that they failed in their mission.



Really? The Borg kidnapped Picard and look at what they were able to do using Picard's knowledge of Starfleet tactics and weapons. Destroyed FORTY Fleet vessels, rendered the Enterprise's saucer-dish attack ineffective, got all the way to Earth. It was only by Riker's unorthodox tactics (and Picard's telling Data to give the Borg a "sleep" command) that saved the Federation from assimilation.


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## Mayfurr (Nov 25, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Really? The Borg kidnapped Picard and look at what they were able to do using Picard's knowledge of Starfleet tactics and weapons. Destroyed FORTY Fleet vessels, rendered the Enterprise's saucer-dish attack ineffective, got all the way to Earth. It was only by Riker's unorthodox tactics (and Picard's telling Data to give the Borg a "sleep" command) that saved the Federation from assimilation.



Using an opponent's knowledge to defeat their tactics and weapons isn't the same thing as reverse-engineering those weapons to use yourself, which I believe is Attaman's point.


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## lilEmber (Nov 25, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Really? The Borg kidnapped Picard and look at what they were able to do using Picard's knowledge of Starfleet tactics and weapons. Destroyed FORTY Fleet vessels, rendered the Enterprise's saucer-dish attack ineffective, got all the way to Earth. It was only by Riker's unorthodox tactics (and Picard's telling Data to give the Borg a "sleep" command) that saved the Federation from assimilation.



Picard is no ordinary Captain, most captains know jack shit. There's a reason he's "the best".


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