# 12 Shot dead during Dark Knight showing in Colorado



## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Pretty scary stuff. A guy walked into the theater and threw some gas canisters and opened fire during the Midnight showing of the Dark Knight Rises.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...night-rises-screening-in-aurora-colorado?lite

The thing that breaks my heart are the reports of the 9 year old getting shot and people saying "she wasn't moving"

Also in this day and age of smartphones someone was filming some of the happenings.

Before you click play there is some graphic content of blood so 

[yt]T7sIiqq66rk[/yt]


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## Fallowfox (Jul 20, 2012)

The darkness in someone's head which allows them to do this must be extraordinary...


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 20, 2012)

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

I don't know what to say. I never know what to say when I hear about tragic disasters, accidents, and killings. :[ Has there been anything said about the shooter's motives?


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## Bambi (Jul 20, 2012)

Seems to me like the guy was just your stereotypical batshit attention whore who knew that using a "Dark Knight" showing at a movie theater for the setting of his massacre would totally get him comparisons to like, some super-duper, evil, and complex social pariah, or some shit.

Bet me, the sick fuck.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jul 20, 2012)

I just heard of this..What drives a man to do that?


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Well so far they have to examine the guy's home and vehicle because he said he had explosives. The shooter is named James Holmes - someone even started a facebook saying "he must get the death penalty"

As you see the guy being escorted covered in blood in 1:06 of the youtube footage I posted, there's a little kid dressed up as Batman, breaks my heart. He's dressed up as his hero but I'm sure he felt so helpless unable to help anyone during the shooting.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 20, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> I just heard of this..What drives a man to do that?


Perhaps a mental illness, it wouldn't be surprising if some of the victims went on to develop mental illnesses from the trauma, like the spread of a computer virus that continues evolving as it propagates.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 20, 2012)

It's a goddamn travesty! The first thing I heard this morning. "Oh, I'll sip my tea and see what's on the tube!" "65 PEOPLE SHOT. 15 DEAD AT MOVIES." Nice.
All they wanted to do was see a fucking Batman movie and they either died or were injured for it. What a nutjob asshat. -_-
Now we've got a few people on the Internet giving bogus feedback pulling, the video games=violence routine as if this is the nineties. Which is why I love OP's sig. 

That's two motherfuckers I've heard about this week on a spree. That idiotic hit and run that left 4 dogs buried and now this man who thinks a human life as a clay pigeon. What next? Or do I even wanna know? 9-9

Well, as Daft Punk would say, Forget About the World. I'm sick of hearing about it this week. Goin back to bed...


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## Attaman (Jul 20, 2012)

Aurora Police and Fire Live Audio Feed, which was a source of a lot of information at the start of the shooting. Not quite as relevant now, but occasionally some stuff still comes up. There's some reasonable up-to-date / as-it-happens information on the BBC site as well.

Best of wishes to the families of the victims, they have my condolences and I hope for a speedy recovery to those who can be helped.


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 20, 2012)

Evidently there was a baby who was injured too. :O

I've actually been there, holy crap. Right where the video was taken.


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## ramsay_baggins (Jul 20, 2012)

This whole thing is so utterly heartbreaking. A three month old was shot, a six year old and a pregnant woman. Thank god they've caught the guy, I hope he gets punished to the fullest extent of the law.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't know if this'll help but nbc as an update of sorts: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...night-rises-screening-in-aurora-colorado?lite I believe they know now that only 12 ppl are deceased. 

This is of course a horrible tragedy. I personally wonder if this might change the movie going experience, will metal detectors become a stable? Who knows. This sort of act always has so many consequences...


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield one of the victims who had died. http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20613537,00.html

Graphic Warning: Shooting victim posts his photos on Reddit http://www.manolith.com/2012/07/20/...photos-of-his-gunshot-wound-on-reddit-photos/


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## Flippy (Jul 20, 2012)

Just looked this up but Colorado state & local law apparently prohibit firearm registration. Officials of Colorado I think you better break out the whiteout & crayons & get to work on fixing that.


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## ADF (Jul 20, 2012)

The media are now calling him the "batman killer". I am sure they're the sort that will be really pleased with themselves to get that title.

They booby trapped their home as well... This really feels like something from a film, which is probably the point.


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## Bark (Jul 20, 2012)

Ugh. Just terrible. Who in the actual fuck pulls twisted shit like this off? It's sickening how some people can be so coldblooded.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

ramsay_baggins said:


> This whole thing is so utterly heartbreaking. A three month old was shot, a six year old and a pregnant woman. Thank god they've caught the guy, I hope he gets punished to the fullest extent of the law.



I know people are excited to the movie, but bringing a *3 month old baby* to a theater that's going to be loud and past midnight is beyond me. There's just some things you can wait for.


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## badlands (Jul 20, 2012)

Unzipped Zebra said:


> Ugh. Just terrible. Who in the actual fuck pulls twisted shit like this off? It's sickening how some people can be so coldblooded.




someone who wants to be rememberd as the 'infamous [whatever]' basicaly a really fucked up wanker.


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## Elim Garak (Jul 20, 2012)

http://www.spreekillers.ch/
Sadly these things happen way too often..


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

badlands said:


> someone who wants to be rememberd as the 'infamous [whatever]' basicaly a really fucked up wanker.


Maybe even the "real-life Bane".



Attaman said:


> Best of wishes to the families of the victims,  they have my condolences and I hope for a speedy recovery to those who  can be helped.


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## badlands (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Maybe even the "real-life Bane".



what the media need to do is stop calling him the 'batman killer' or whatever so-called catchy name they dream up, THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS. maybe they ought to just call him 'the man with an incredibly small cock who killed 12 people'


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I know people are excited to the movie, but bringing a *3 month old baby* to a theater that's going to be loud and past midnight is beyond me. There's just some things you can wait for.




Take it from someone who lives in Colorado...Colorado moviegoers have no sense of that sort of stuff and think it's a great idea to take babies to the theatre and are surprised when they don't sleep through it because of all the loud noises.


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## Dreaming (Jul 20, 2012)

It kind of makes you wonder what was going on in his head to drive him to do that.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield one of the victims who had died. http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20613537,00.html
> 
> Graphic Warning: Shooting victim posts his photos on Reddit http://www.manolith.com/2012/07/20/...photos-of-his-gunshot-wound-on-reddit-photos/



This is just for petty lulz, but look at this moron... didn't even know they were friends.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 20, 2012)

It's terrible really. I wish there was a way that these sorts of people  could be found easier and stopped before they are able to take any  lives; but often it's too late. 

I think there's lots of other  ticking time bombs out there, we've seen many of them over the years.  Brevik, Klebold and Harris, Cho, lots of others. It just frustrates  me that they get their chance to do damage like this and innocent  people die.

But, It's part of society; there are those out there that are obviously twisted or maladjusted to the point where they feel mass murder is acceptable. Things like this will happen again when another psychopath pulls the trigger. I just hope next time, there's someone there to put their ass down before they can do any real damage.


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## ADF (Jul 20, 2012)

It's a problem that cannot really be resolved. The amount of power you'd have to give the police/government to have any chance of detecting any of these people, is not the sort of world we want to live in.


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## Zydrate Junkie (Jul 20, 2012)

This guy needs to be murdered in the the face until he is dead, I mean look at his smug grin in this photo: http://ll-media.tmz.com/2012/07/20/0720-james-holmes-3.jpg
Sometimes I do wonder what sort of people we share this planet with...


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## Vega (Jul 20, 2012)

That's just horrible... I can only hope that the injured make a full recovery.  



Digitalpotato said:


> Evidently there was a baby who was injured too. :O
> 
> I've actually been there, holy crap. Right where the video was taken.



I don't even know you that and I'm glad you're OK.


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 20, 2012)

Vega said:


> I don't even know you that and I'm glad you're OK.



Yeah. I sort of lived in Aurora a little while, but I wasn't anywhere near this. The people we know down there are all safe. 

The only one who was involved in the tragedy was someone who got shot. She's okay, thankfully, they released her this morning because she had minor injuries.




Dreaming said:


> It kind of makes you wonder what was going on in his head to drive him to do that.




Actually, I might be able to provide some insight. From what we've learned, he was a medical school student who failed his mid-term exams and was in the process of withdrawing before he went apeshit. The sad thing is, this isn't the only time a med student who withdrew/failed snapped...a year or so ago, someone who failed jumped off of a crane and another person was saved after he tried to hang himself.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 20, 2012)

Fallowfox said:


> Perhaps a mental illness, it wouldn't be surprising if some of the victims went on to develop mental illnesses from the trauma, like the spread of a computer virus that continues evolving as it propagates.


This is why the hardware must be swiftly destroyed as soon as the 'virus' is detected.  This is not having a problem, this is BEING a problem.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> It's a problem that cannot really be resolved. The amount of power you'd have to give the police/government to have any chance of detecting any of these people, is not the sort of world we want to live in.


I'm not sure we would need a police state to more effectively guard against killing sprees. Better mental health screening systems would change a lot. Most serial killers displayed behavioral problems early on.

And common sense gun laws.


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## CannonFodder (Jul 20, 2012)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> This is why the hardware must be swiftly destroyed before the virus can spread. This is not having a problem, this is BEING a problem.


Huzzabawha?


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 20, 2012)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> This is why the hardware must be swiftly destroyed as soon as the 'virus' is detected.  This is not having a problem, this is BEING a problem.


 
Honestly, it's a bit of both...


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## mrfoxwily (Jul 20, 2012)

My friend knew people who were there. She moved here from that town. We don't know if any of her friends died, but one of them lost her fingers.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I know people are excited to the movie, but bringing a *3 month old baby* to a theater that's going to be loud and past midnight is beyond me. There's just some things you can wait for.



That's America for ya


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## Attaman (Jul 20, 2012)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> This is why the hardware must be swiftly destroyed as soon as the 'virus' is detected.  This is not having a problem, this is BEING a problem.


Holy sweet fuck, are you honestly using this thread to advocate the murder of anyone with mental illnesses?


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## CannonFodder (Jul 20, 2012)

Attaman said:


> Holy sweet fuck, are you honestly using this thread to advocate the murder of anyone with mental illnesses?


That's what I'm wondering as well.


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## Onnes (Jul 20, 2012)

Attaman said:


> Holy sweet fuck, are you honestly using this thread to advocate the murder of anyone with mental illnesses?



Well it is Kit, so the answer is likely yes. Which would probably be the sign of a mental illness...


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## Aetius (Jul 20, 2012)

Hopefully copycats don't come out of this attack. Although I may be pressing my luck.


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## ADF (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> I'm not sure we would need a police state to more effectively guard against killing sprees. Better mental health screening systems would change a lot. Most serial killers displayed behavioral problems early on.
> 
> And common sense gun laws.



There is nothing in this guys record to indicate he could be capable of anything like this, that and his family certainly didn't notice any changes in him; as they were taken completely by surprise. Living in the UK, I don't know how America's gun laws work. But there wasn't anything in this guys history that would give a seller any indication of the intent. He was of legal age as well.

So I'm not sure how this person could have been identified, or restricted from purchasing a gun.


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## Ikrit (Jul 20, 2012)

Fallowfox said:


> Perhaps a mental illness, it wouldn't be surprising if some of the victims went on to develop mental illnesses from the trauma, like the spread of a computer virus that continues evolving as it propagates.



i have this so called mental illness

if it weren't for my extraordinary willpower, I'd have done the same, i know i sure as hell think about it...


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> There is nothing in this guys record to indicate he could be capable of anything like this, that and his family certainly didn't notice any changes in him; as they were taken completely by surprise. Living in the UK, I don't know how America's gun laws work. But there wasn't anything in this guys history that would give a seller any indication of the intent. He was of legal age as well.
> 
> So I'm not sure how this person could have been identified, or restricted from purchasing a gun.


His family's reaction cast doubt on his unblemished past and he carried a fucking assault rifle.

I don't think this was entirely unavoidable.


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## Carnie (Jul 20, 2012)

Ikrit said:


> i have this so called mental illness
> 
> if it weren't for my extraordinary willpower, I'd have done the same, i know i sure as hell think about it...



What sort of mental illness huh?

Sounds like you could really use someone to talk to, that's pretty serious to think about :/


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## VGmaster9 (Jul 20, 2012)

Here we go again...


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## Fay V (Jul 20, 2012)

Jesus this is some fucked up shit. I woke up this morning ready to catch the matinee, then have spent most of my day talking to my brother who is trying to make sure his friends aren't dead (he came up from colorado just last night, thank god) and making sure my cousin wasn't there. 

I really can't imagine the pain of the victims right now. I can't imagine the fucked up thoughts behind this guy's actions. it's just...holy shit


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

Gibby said:


> Some men just want to watch the world burn.


http://io9.com/5927859/colorado-shooter-allegedly-modeled-himself-after-the-joker


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## ADF (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> His family's reaction cast doubt on his unblemished past and he carried a fucking assault rifle.
> 
> I don't think this was entirely unavoidable.



There was nothing in that news article referring to past behaviour, it was just describing what happened.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

ADF said:


> There was nothing in that news article referring to past behaviour, it was just describing what happened.





> She immediately expressed concern that her son may have been involved. "You have the right person," she said, apparently speaking on gut instinct.


Might just be sensationalist conjecture, but still.


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## Ikrit (Jul 20, 2012)

Carnie said:


> What sort of mental illness huh?
> 
> Sounds like you could really use someone to talk to, that's pretty serious to think about :/



don't know the name of it

but yea...i often think I'm insane...but i can't help it, it just comes up.  It's like "that random guy over there, i wonder how i could kill him." then i go on with the rest of my day never giving it another thought.


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## ADF (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Might just be sensationalist conjecture, but still.



It's being reported differently in the UK. All I heard on the news was that the family were shocked and flying out there, not making suggestions like that.

Information is of course always coming in.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

It's too early for conclusive results, anyhow. 

Time will tell.


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## Onnes (Jul 20, 2012)

Ikrit said:


> don't know the name of it
> 
> but yea...i often think I'm insane...but i can't help it, it just comes up.  It's like "that random guy over there, i wonder how i could kill him." then i go on with the rest of my day never giving it another thought.



There's a rather large difference between what you're describing and actually carrying out murder. Intrusive thoughts, even violent ones, are incredibly common and usually don't translate into any sort of action. It's when you find yourself agreeing with such thoughts that you have a problem.


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## H.B.C (Jul 20, 2012)

Ugh, this kind of stuff really makes me sad. I can't even comprehend the kind of emotional detachment someone would have to posses before making the conscious choice to kill other human beings like that. Other people, who have their whole lives ahead of them... ugh. :c


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 20, 2012)

Just awful, I was on vacation this morning and learned about it while at breakfast. This picture pretty much sums up my feelings about this. Here.


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## DevistatedDrone (Jul 20, 2012)

And most victims thought it was part of the movie due to the nature of it, which is extremely sad.

Anyways, someone had this idea to see if they want Christian Bale to visit the child victims. I think that it would be sweet and all, but don't see it making that much of a big difference. It's such a sensitive scenario that it might even do some harm, seeing as batman was indirectly responsible.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Jul 20, 2012)

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## mrfoxwily (Jul 20, 2012)

Echo Wolf said:


> Just awful, I was on vacation this morning and learned about it while at breakfast. This picture pretty much sums up my feelings about this. Here.



All the more reason to have a concealed carry license. :\


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 20, 2012)

mrfoxwily said:


> All the more reason to have a concealed carry license. :\


There are just too many high-strung people for that to be a safe idea.


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## ShÃ nwÃ ng (Jul 20, 2012)

Echo Wolf said:


> This picture pretty much sums up my feelings about this. Here.



No. That's not how that works. That is a stupid comparison. It's either dishonest of the circumstances of the situations or brashly ignorant today's shooting events.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 20, 2012)

mrfoxwily said:


> All the more reason to have a concealed carry license. :\



Concealed carry might be a good idea, but if they only attach some good standards and rules (a thorough background check and possibly even a mental evaluation). I have a CC permit, and it was so easy to get it scares me.


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## Attaman (Jul 20, 2012)

mrfoxwily said:


> All the more reason to have a concealed carry license. :\


Fun fact: When in broad daylight, several people who were practicing "concealed carry" almost _opened fire on the wrong person_. How do you think this would go down in a crowded movie theatre that was dark, flooded with tear gas, has assorted film and muzzle flashes, and the target is wearing ballistic armor?


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh for fucks sakes, it's a crowded theater! You guys playing too many FPS or some shit gonna tell me you could have killed the guy and not shot a bunch of people running for their lives in a dark theater. STFU.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 20, 2012)

Attaman said:


> Fun fact: When in broad daylight, several people who were practicing "concealed carry" almost _opened fire on the wrong person_. How do you think this would go down in a crowded movie theatre that was dark, flooded with tear gas, has assorted film and muzzle flashes, and the target is wearing ballistic armor?



As an owner of a carry license (don't need to conceal in Minnesota), I agree with you Attaman.  That guy was wearing armor and had a freaking assault rifle.  He may have gone down if someone had shot his armor because it hurts like a BITCH to get shot even with armor on, but still...


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## Corto (Jul 20, 2012)

I dunno, it warms my heart knowing that all the armchair Rambos that we apparently have here would have probably pissed themselves if they had been in the theater. A carry permit does not turn you a trained marksman.


My condolences to the families of the victims. This is a terrible thing.

EDIT: Wasn't aimed at Zach, just replying to Arshes.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh for fucks sakes, it's a crowded theater! You guys playing too many FPS or some shit gonna tell me you could have killed the guy and not shot a bunch of people running for their lives in a dark theater. STFU.



I think all of that would revolve around the skill and judgment of the weapon carrier as well as their proximity to the assailant. A reasonable weapon holder (say someone with a good amount of target practice and gun handling skill) might wait for a safe/clear window and make an attempt, but that's hinging purely on the word "reasonable"; most people would probably just blow one of their own toes off.


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## Aetius (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh for fucks sakes, it's a crowded theater! You guys playing too many FPS or some shit gonna tell me you could have killed the guy and not shot a bunch of people running for their lives in a dark theater. STFU.



It really also doesn't help that the theater was filled with tear gas. I wish Internet Tough Guys would understand this.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Corto said:


> I dunno, it warms my heart knowing that all the armchair Rambos that we apparently have here would have probably pissed themselves if they had been in the theater. A carry permit does not turn you a trained marksman.
> 
> EDIT: Wasn't aimed at Zach, just replying to Arshes.



Probably likely they if they did actually open fire more kids in the theater would have been dead.


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## Attaman (Jul 20, 2012)

WanderingFox said:


> I think all of that would revolve around the skill and judgment of the weapon carrier as well as their proximity to the assailant. A reasonable weapon holder (say someone with a good amount of target practice and gun handling skill) might wait for a safe/clear window and make an attempt, but that's hinging purely on the word "reasonable"; most people would probably just blow one of their own toes off.


Again I refer to the Giffords incident. Here someone in broad daylight, with a clear line of sight, almost shot the _wrong person_ because his situational awareness was not quite up-to-par (who he was actually aiming at was the person who disarmed the shooter). Now imagine that you're in a crowded theatre, your eyes and lungs are burning up because you had the misfortune of being caught in the tear gas, it's dark, there's a movie going on in the background, people are huddling / trying to run (or, worse, pulling their own concealed weapons), and bright flashes are assaulting your eyes. Oh, yeah, and even if you can aim right, your (actual) target is wearing full ballistic armor, and neither you nor any other conceal carry holders know just how many shooters there are.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Ugh. http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=10285044


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## Aetius (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ugh. http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=10285044



This guy is pretty fucking crazy. He also rigged his apartment room with explosives, which are so sophisticated that the police are still trying to defuse it.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 20, 2012)

Attaman said:


> Again I refer to the Giffords incident. Here someone in broad daylight, with a clear line of sight, almost shot the _wrong person_ because his situational awareness was not quite up-to-par (who he was actually aiming at was the person who disarmed the shooter). Now imagine that you're in a crowded theatre, your eyes and lungs are burning up because you had the misfortune of being caught in the tear gas, it's dark, there's a movie going on in the background, people are huddling / trying to run (or, worse, pulling their own concealed weapons), and bright flashes are assaulting your eyes. Oh, yeah, and even if you can aim right, your (actual) target is wearing full ballistic armor, and neither you nor any other conceal carry holders know just how many shooters there are.




True. The shooter may have also become more aggravated/panicked in the process, at least I think he would start spraying bullets endlessly into wherever he was being shot from which wouldn't have made things better for _anyone_ in the room.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Commie Bat said:


> Nine years in the military, and I know I still couldn't make the shot.  Internet commandos, please get some real world experience before you start acting like some elite assassin bullshit.



There's some pretty good reasons why in certain wars where civilians are involved many soldiers end up having stress disorders...


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## Corto (Jul 20, 2012)

WanderingFox said:


> I think all of that would revolve around the skill and judgment of the weapon carrier as well as their proximity to the assailant. A reasonable weapon holder (say someone with a good amount of target practice and gun handling skill) might wait for a safe/clear window and make an attempt, but that's hinging purely on the word "reasonable"; most people would probably just blow one of their own toes off.




You can spend 30 years going to the shooting range, it's not the same IN ANY WAY AT ALL to shooting a living being, let alone a person. Inside a crowded place. With multiple collateral targets. And someone shooting back.

So yeah, no. There's a reason trained soldiers and SWAT members end up screwing up some times. A random civilian with a paper that says he can shoot the broad side of a barn in a country where even the dogs own guns is not the same. Hell, I shot my first gun at age six and have some training (practice, rather) at shooting moving targets and thanks to my upbringing I feel more comfortable with a gun than with an Iphone, and I'm still pretty sure if I'd been there armed with the most perfect nanobot-enhanced gun in the world I would have panicked and thrown it at some random pedestrian.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ugh. http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=10285044


That guy carried a military-style assault rifle.

And yet some argue even laxer gun laws had prevented everything.

Mind. Boggling.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> That guy carried a military-style assault rifle.
> 
> And yet some argue even laxer gun laws had prevented everything.
> 
> Mind. Boggling.


The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle, actually.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 20, 2012)

From my understanding what he released was smoke from which he most likely used to lure everyone to the exit then proceeded to gun them down. I saw something that there might have been some sort of irritant used but it most likely wasn't police issue tear gas, I guess this will be made more clear as things go on from what I see I can't find anything agreeing what he was using/ his purpose for using it. To the conceal and carry I don't see why people think the people with permits have no skill with their gun, quite on the contrary actually and I'm fairly certain that they could distinguish the man firing an assault rifle at them from the other people with pistols, or at the very least the guy shooting at them/ the crowd. And even with body armor getting shot with a bullet, let's say a 38 special, would hurt like hell.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> That guy carried a military-style assault rifle.
> 
> And yet some argue even laxer gun laws had prevented everything.
> 
> Mind. Boggling.




Yes because obviously everyone is running around with this gun. So he got them legally. Would it have mattered if he got them illegally? People are still dead because the guy was a nut.



Echo Wolf said:


> From my understanding what he released was smoke from which he most likely used to lure everyone to the exit then proceeded to gun them down. I saw something that there might have been some sort of irritant used but it most likely wasn't police issue tear gas, I guess this will be made more clear as things go on from what I see I can't find anything agreeing what he was using/ his purpose for using it. To the conceal and carry I don't see why people think the people with permits have no skill with their gun, quite on the contrary actually and I'm fairly certain that they could distinguish the man firing an assault rifle at them from the other people with pistols, or at the very least the guy shooting at them/ the crowd. And even with body armor getting shot with a bullet, let's say a 38 special, would hurt like hell.



I don't think you should carry your gun like a shovel. You're digging your own grave.


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## Schwimmwagen (Jul 20, 2012)

I read another article that he carried an AK-style rifle.

sigh

also Foof was telling me earlier that a news channel on the telly was also giving stupid information on the shooter's arsenal.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle, actually.


Yeah, I see now, the assault design is traded under the name M16.

So what, such heavy ordnance should require special permits and intensive screening to make acquisition for private citizens nearly impossible like it's the case in most other first world countries.


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## BRN (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Yeah, I see now, the assault design is traded under the name M16.
> 
> So what, such heavy ordnance should require special permits and intensive screening to make acquisition for private citizens nearly impossible like it's the case in most other first world countries.



mah gurnz are protracted bai tha conz'tiTUYshun


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 20, 2012)

Time to change that piece of paper and take away the guns from those barbarians.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Time to change that piece of paper and take away the guns from those barbarians.


More or less; the living will of the people is a greater authority than the sentiments of those long dead. Nobody should posess power they can't handle.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Time to change that piece of paper and take away the guns from those barbarians.



_Shhh... don't let Rush Limbaugh or any fox news pundits hear you. _

_Else yer gunna russell a whole lotta redneck jimmies. _


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 20, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't think you should carry your gun like a shovel. You're digging your own grave.



Explanation needed? I don't really get what your getting at with this.


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## asdrubael (Jul 20, 2012)

.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 20, 2012)

Echo Wolf said:


> Explanation needed? I don't really get what your getting at with this.



The more you try to explain how you can do this, the less intelligent your argument looks.


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## Littlerock (Jul 20, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I read another article that he carried an AK-style rifle.
> 
> sigh
> 
> also Foof was telling me earlier that a news channel on the telly was also giving stupid information on the shooter's arsenal.



Yup, there was a blip on ABC world news earlier today that had insinuated that the type of magazine on his Smith 'n Wesson was capable of holding a hundred bullets, made the bullets fire faster, and also made the bullets fired more powerful. 

_wat._

There's reporting the news, then there's bullshitting out false tidbits to cater toward the general, ignorant public. "Omg u guise, we should illegality those 6,000 round clips he was using in his automatic rifle glocks!!!1." _Holy shit._

Don't get me wrong, this is a horrible thing that has happened, and it's terribly upsetting that innocent lives were lost. But there's _no_ call for this level of stupidity. :T


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## Aetius (Jul 21, 2012)

Littlerock said:


> Yup, there was a blip on ABC world news earlier today that had insinuated that the type of magazine on his Smith 'n Wesson was capable of holding a hundred bullets, made the bullets fire faster, and also made the bullets fired more powerful.
> 
> _wat._
> 
> ...



This is why I don't watch news from the tube.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> The more you try to explain how you can do this, the less intelligent your argument looks.



Yes because you making vague statements about my comment definitely makes my argument seem less intelligent. I need to know what you are talking about before I can even begin to dignify it with a response. What your saying right now would be the equivalent of me going to the auto mechanic and asking him what's wrong with my car and him telling me something to the effect of "do you treat it like a car?", it makes no sense...


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Ok I'll make it easier for you.

GUN MAKE YOU MACHO GUN MAKE YOU DO INCREDIBLE THINGS

No, take a good look at reality. You're talking bullshit. You're not some tough guy that could have taken down that guy, and arguing about it makes you look stupid. Stop it.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ok I'll make it easier for you.
> 
> GUN MAKE YOU MACHO GUN MAKE YOU DO INCREDIBLE THINGS
> 
> No, take a good look at reality. You're talking bullshit. You're not some tough guy that could have taken down that guy, and arguing about it makes you look stupid. Stop it.



I never said that I was some "macho" testosterone induced Rambo bad-ass. The point I was trying to make was that having someone that had a gun could have changed the outcome. I never said I would have kicked that guys ass just that, even with body armor, a 38 special (common revolver round for conceal and carry) would still cause damage. Now with that said, I don't take weapons lightly. I only carry my knife with me for utility reasons, I'm 18 and knives are legal to carry, because I don't know how to use it properly for fighting, there's an art to it that I have yet to learn. Once I learn how to use it properly, hopefully in half a year or so, I will carry it with me because I know if I pull that out I'm fighting for my life. I wouldn't want to take it with me and pull it out and get myself killed for not knowing how to fight with it.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 21, 2012)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-20/colorado-shooting-holmes/56373668/1?csp=34news

The woman is identified in public searches as Arlene Holmes. The family lives in a two-story house that was assessed at $398,000 in 2000.

Holy shit they live in a house!


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh so the point you're making is another gunman in a crowded theater in the dark  with KIDS nonetheless will end up with more dead bodies. Good thinking. Hope you enjoy killing kids.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 21, 2012)

This thread is kinda tense. 



Arshes Nei said:


> Oh so the point you're making is another gunman in a crowded theater in the dark  with KIDS nonetheless will end up with more dead bodies. Good thinking. Hope you enjoy killing kids.



I understand it's sort of an emotional issue and all, but nobody can tell for certain whether or not a CC person with a gun would have not made a difference (good or bad) or produced the output of a Edmund Fitzgerald cargo hold's worth of dead children.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh so the point you're making is another gunman in a crowded theater in the dark  with KIDS nonetheless will end up with more dead bodies. Good thinking. Hope you enjoy killing kids.



You sure do love jumping to conclusions lol. No what I was saying was that having someone with a conceal and carry permit could have changed the conclusion to this event. I don't know what kind of gun slinging Rambo bad ass your thinking of that would fire with blatant disregard for children and the like but I haven't seen one outside of movies. Now think about they layout of the movie theater, if it was one of those single level ones there would have been enough room for someone to get him before he was able to raise a massive panic. Hell, I heard one of the guys interviewed saying that the guy was hitting him with shell casings because he was so close to him. That's the point I'm trying to make here.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 21, 2012)

According to zachhart'slink: He was dressed head-to-toe in black bullet-proof gear, including helmet, vest, leggings and a groin and throat protector. He wore a gas mask, goggles and black gloves.

Why did no one bat an eyelash at this? Because he was going to see a Batman flick?! I can understand a wizard/hobbit outfit, that's harmless, but this is some crazy shit to wear to a theatre. Esp. the gas mask! There was a red flag if ever I saw one. I don't think any theatre I've been to would tolerate such "suspicious" attire. This is a very bizarre situation indeed.


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## Aetius (Jul 21, 2012)

Echo Wolf said:


> You sure do love jumping to conclusions lol. No what I was saying was that having* someone with a conceal and carry permit could have changed the conclusion to this event.*



By creating a higher body count from confusion? 



Echo Wolf said:


> I don't know what kind of gun slinging Rambo bad ass your thinking of that would fire with blatant disregard for children and the like but I haven't seen one outside of movies.



By firing in an incredibly unlit and foggy room, you are showing a disregard for children and other civilians in a theater because A. Your vision is impeded by the chaos and you may or may not know who in the hell you are shooting at, and B. Bulllets are a magical thing that tend to hit something else than what you were aiming for. 



Echo Wolf said:


> Now think about they layout of the movie theater, if it was one of those single level ones there would have been enough room for someone to get him before he was able to raise a massive panic.



Are you kidding me? Panic was created right after everyone realized that his gun wasn't some part of weird special effects (which did not take long). Good luck trying to aim through that chaos without hitting a bystander.



Butterflygoddess16 said:


> According to zachhart'slink: He was dressed head-to-toe in black bullet-proof gear, including helmet, vest, leggings and a groin and throat protector. He wore a gas mask, goggles and black gloves.
> 
> Why did no one bat an eyelash at this? Because he was going to see a Batman flick?! I can understand a wizard/hobbit outfit, that's harmless, but this is some crazy shit to wear to a theatre. Esp. the gas mask! There was a red flag if ever I saw one. I don't think any theatre I've been to would tolerate such "suspicious" attire. This is a very bizarre situation indeed.



According to the most updated sources, the suspect actually entered the theater dressed normally, snuck out from the emergency exit when the film started, geared up for about 20 minutes, and came back in through the exit with his gear.


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## Onnes (Jul 21, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> According to zachhart'slink: He was dressed head-to-toe in black bullet-proof gear, including helmet, vest, leggings and a groin and throat protector. He wore a gas mask, goggles and black gloves.
> 
> Why did no one bat an eyelash at this? Because he was going to see a Batman flick?! I can understand a wizard/hobbit outfit, that's harmless, but this is some crazy shit to wear to a theatre. Esp. the gas mask! There was a red flag if ever I saw one. I don't think any theatre I've been to would tolerate such "suspicious" attire. This is a very bizarre situation indeed.



He entered through a fire escape that he propped open ahead of time. It isn't like he walked through the lobby in that outfit.


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## ArielMT (Jul 21, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> According to zachhart'slink: He was dressed head-to-toe in black bullet-proof gear, including helmet, vest, leggings and a groin and throat protector. He wore a gas mask, goggles and black gloves.
> 
> Why did no one bat an eyelash at this? Because he was going to see a Batman flick?! I can understand a wizard/hobbit outfit, that's harmless, but this is some crazy shit to wear to a theatre. Esp. the gas mask! There was a red flag if ever I saw one. I don't think any theatre I've been to would tolerate such "suspicious" attire. This is a very bizarre situation indeed.



CNN cited an unnamed investigator reporting that he snuck out an exit, propping it open just enough to sneak back in, and went to his car to complete his attire and get his weapons.  With this plan, he didn't need to sneak anything in through the main entrance.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh, thank you all for the quick posts. I was quite in awe upon the first reading. Hmmmm. This might require increased security at theaters now I suppose. Also, I wonder  why he set his home up the way he did...to destroy evidence I suppose.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

WanderingFox said:


> This thread is kinda tense.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand it's sort of an emotional issue and all, but nobody can tell for certain whether or not a CC person with a gun would have not made a difference (good or bad) or produced the output of a Edmund Fitzgerald cargo hold's worth of dead children.



Given the situation and it being a theater yeah, it's going to be more chaos given the circumstances.  It's dark, there's a lot of people who were panicked, then given the fact the chairs also can cause obstacles objects in daylight which are harmless can look like something deadly or be mistaken for something else. A CC person could look like a second accomplice in the chaos, not additional help so people who may be near that person will go into more chaos and possibly try to disarm him. I mean seriously you think two people with guns in that chaos people are going to see who is the hero or who is the villain?

Is there a big badge you CC people carry so we don't mistake you for a 2nd gunman?

Yeah so sorry if I call bigtime bullshit on people thinking that in that scenario they'll come out a hero.

By the way, I actually believe people have the right to bear arms, and I know people who own guns. But if people are coming into this thread with retarded quarterbacking thinking they could have had some brilliant scenario that would have taken down the guy...it's like fuck...no wonder people want to make tighter gun laws.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 21, 2012)

Aetius said:


> By creating a higher body count from confusion?



No and who would take a shot if risks of hitting someone else were so  high? Everyone who seems to think conceal carry is a bad thing seems to  believe that if someone else had a gun would be firing like a 1930s  gangster at a bank robbery.




Aetius said:


> By firing in an incredibly unlit and foggy room,  you are showing a disregard for children and other civilians in a  theater because A. Your vision is impeded by the chaos and you may or  may not know who in the hell you are shooting at, and B. Bulllets are a  magical thing that tend to hit something else than what you were aiming  for.



There are many many variables that I cannot account for; knowing  the path that the civilians took, the location of the shooter, time from  dispersal of smoke to time first shots were fired (takes a while to  fill an entire theater with smoke), his proximity to other civilians  originally, ect. These are things that none of us, either side, can take  into account without knowing what specifically happened. All I can say  for certain is that no one in there had a conceal and carry permit and  the shooting lasted until the shooter gave himself up.



Aetius said:


> Are you kidding me? Panic was created right after  everyone realized that his gun wasn't some part of weird special effects  (which did not take long). Good luck trying to aim through that chaos  without hitting a bystander.



Panic yes but think about it for a second, if someone is firing at you  what's the first thing your going to do? Get up and run, I think not.  You're most likely going to hit the ground and wait for the shooter to  empty his magazine first then try to get out.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Echo Wolf said:


> Just awful, I was on vacation this morning and learned about it while at breakfast. This picture pretty much sums up my feelings about this. Here.



Just reposting this quote so we can show the intelligent logic here.


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## Aetius (Jul 21, 2012)

Echo Wolf said:


> No and who would take a shot if risks of hitting someone else were so  high? Everyone who seems to think conceal carry is a bad thing seems to  believe that if someone else had a gun would be firing like a 1930s  gangster at a bank robbery.


Lets see you try to fire a firearm in a very unlit and foggy room (due to gas). Your shots are going to be as accurate as Fox News. 



Echo Wolf said:


> There are many many variables that I cannot account for; knowing  the path that the civilians took, the location of the shooter, time from  dispersal of smoke to time first shots were fired (takes a while to  fill an entire theater with smoke), his proximity to other civilians  originally, ect. These are things that none of us, either side, can take  into account without knowing what specifically happened. All I can say  for certain is that no one in there had a conceal and carry permit and  the shooting lasted until the shooter gave himself up.


I heavily doubt that anyone would think this out in a calm and collected manner in a couple seconds after being tricked that this may have been special effects. 




Echo Wolf said:


> Panic yes but think about it for a second, if someone is firing at you  what's the first thing your going to do? Get up and run, I think not.  You're most likely going to hit the ground and wait for the shooter to  empty his magazine first then try to get out.



Its a shame that was not the case, as most of the people tried to make a run for it and were picked off by him as they tried to escape.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Just reposting this quote so we can show the intelligent logic here.



Just saying but notice how those people didn't think that that man was an accomplice to the bank robbers. You can't really assume people's reactions, especially when that conceal carry person is pointing a gun at the people trying to do harm.



Aetius said:


> Lets see you try to fire a firearm in a very unlit  and foggy room (due to gas). Your shots are going to be as accurate as  Fox News.



Neither of us are completely sure of the conditions when the shootings first started, like I said it takes quite some time to fill an entire theater with smoke.



Aetius said:


> I heavily doubt that anyone would think this out in a calm and collected  manner in a couple seconds after being tricked that this may have been  special effects.



The things I listed were things that you don't necessarily have to consciously think hard about. There basic, yet extremely important things.




Aetius said:


> Its a shame that was not the case, as most of the people tried to make a  run for it and were picked off by him as they tried to escape.



Are you 100% certain of what everyone did in there? I know that every different article I go to says something different or changes details around. It's really hard to be certain of anything now so I'm feeling arguing any of this at the moment is kind of ridiculous and very speculative.


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## Viva (Jul 21, 2012)

This is just not a good year for Colorado.


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## WanderingFox (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Is there a big badge you CC people carry so we don't mistake you for a 2nd gunman?
> 
> Yeah so sorry if I call bigtime bullshit on people thinking that in that scenario they'll come out a hero.
> 
> By the way, I actually believe people have the right to bear arms, and I know people who own guns. But if people are coming into this thread with retarded quarterbacking thinking they could have had some brilliant scenario that would have taken down the guy...it's like fuck...no wonder people want to make tighter gun laws.



...Wait, did think you this whole time that I was putting _myself_ into the scenario? (or are you sorta referring to all CC carriers in general acting in a similar manner given the conditions?) I can see the point you're making, it's foolhardy to think that the outcome wouldn't have shitloads of risk involved and might very well hurt (or kill) others; but if you're assuming I'd go in there with guns blazing, you have no idea how much of a massive pussy I am.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

WanderingFox said:


> ...Wait, did think you this whole time that I was putting _myself_ into the scenario? (or are you sorta referring to all CC carriers in general acting in a similar manner given the conditions?) I can see the point you're making, it's foolhardy to think that the outcome wouldn't have shitloads of risk involved and might very well hurt (or kill) others; but if you're assuming I'd go in there with guns blazing, you have no idea how much of a massive pussy I am.



I'm referring to those making a case they think they had a chance at a positive outcome of disarming or diffusing the situation. Like I said earlier in that theater people are going to have a hard time telling the difference between "good guy" "bad guy" we're not in the old Spaghetti Westerns here.


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## Bambi (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ugh. http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=10285044


Called it on the first page.



Bambi said:


> Seems to me like the guy was just your  stereotypical batshit attention whore who knew that using a "Dark  Knight" showing at a movie theater for the setting of his massacre would  totally get him comparisons to like, some super-duper, evil, and  complex social pariah, or some shit.
> 
> Bet me, the sick fuck.


This guy knew that people are stupid, and that a shooting, no doubt at a broody, anxiety filled film that features an esoteric, winding mind against colorful psychopaths, would get him unfettered access to everyone in social media who'd slam the panic button the moment idiotic buzzwords took to the airwaves. It's a power trip and a revenge fantasy playing right on the gullibility of the people in the precise exchange that others won't be so smart as to notice the flaws of our most recent shooter if they're hidden behind a veil of "complex" depression and violence. And that's the giveaway of someone whose not only as "weak" as the rest of us, but also, not a cartoon hero. Oops, I mean villain.

I wonder when someone will stop to ask in lieu of all this bullshit: "Hey, doesn't this generic shooting sound a lot like this other generic shooting? Or this one? Or how about this one? Gee, location or not, it's pretty clear that most spree shooters share about two things in common: the shooters are generally white and they're almost always going on undiagnosed or unaware of their clinical depression." Instead of making the poor call that just because this happened at a theater for some movie I haven't had the time to give two shits about, it means he must be on par with some retarded Heath Ledger filling because the circus of these films lost their favorite slap-stick take on the human condition, I hope that someone else out there besides myself decides to call the gunmen on his shit in knowledge of what evidence has been made available to us: He's a fucking attention whore praying on every dumb-fuck normal whose settled on the idea killing people makes you like, you know, intelligent ... or something. Fuck. Do we know anymore what these things mean?

And while I am on the subject, it's certainly not surprising that douche-bags want their retarded as fuck incarnation of some other animated fuck so badly, that they're not only both willing to believe him when he says he's "the Joker", but also so wanting of exactly that case that they asserted it anyway because it's better to escape the tragedy for what it is than face it: someone, some rational mind, in a desperate bid to feel as if he had some sort of power over himself, using violence as a last resort to escape the possibility that he, himself, was staring at only momentary failure. We're not super-heroes. We're not super villains. We're just fucking people; he's not complex, he's not some rejected savant god-smacking the country for it's "wrongs", he just got depressed, and the perfect storm thus emerged where a rational mind failed to take back control of itself from fear. Just like every other spree killer. He's not the joker now, but a statistic.

Unfortunately thank an entirely different country for highlighting the effect more than the United States was willing to pick up on; let's just hope people don't forget this too soon. [1] All of this not in response to you Arshes, but the country at large as it attempts to figure out this shit for itself.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 21, 2012)

Bambi said:


> Snip.



Don't worry, you're not alone. I thought this too when I heard about his bullshit "I'm the goddamned Joker" excuse. Earlier in the year I was very into documentaries on serial killers and watched several on the Columbine killers. He obviously has a resentment towards both himself and his life situation so this is his way of leavinga pharaonic legacy. Both Harris and Klebold wanted to leave such a rebel image behind even going as far as hoping Quentin Tarantino would get to direct a film about their spree. 

I do have to say his lawyer will have quite a bit of work to do if he should plee insanity given the premeditation and all that preparation, but then again, I could see a "twinkie defense" of them blaming violence in today's media as blurring the line between reality and fiction. 

And I've held off on this comment, but it sucks that this asshole had to add such an ugly scar on the trilogy (not that that is the most horrible part of this cuz its so very plainly the loss of life and injuries).


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## Rilvor (Jul 21, 2012)

Horribly tragic, those people who died probably didn't even understand what was happening to them it happened so quickly.

What bothers me about this is that people are so insistent on linking this to what is nothing more than flickering images on a screen; an advanced campfire story. The spree murderer and his victims is what is important here, a hollywood film is irrelevant.

Let's suppose we replaced this movie with something such as a heavily religiously toned movie, imagine how different this would be playing out on the news sites.

I must admit, figures like Rush Limbaugh really try my patience, extensive as it may be.


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## Mayfurr (Jul 21, 2012)

mrfoxwily said:


> All the more reason to have a concealed carry license. :\



Someone claiming that *more *guns would have prevented this tragedy in 3... 2... 1...

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED.


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## Elim Garak (Jul 21, 2012)

I don't know about gun laws really, there have been shootings in places with strict gun laws. You can even buy illegal guns online with tor, and myself, I can make a couple of calls and probably get an assault rifle the same day.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

Why should a homicidal fucker risk getting caught buying illegal guns if he can just walk to the shop down the street, order military-grade weaponry, cackle maniacally and watch how the vendor prints out the bill without batting an eyelash?


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Why should a *homicidal fucker* risk getting caught buying illegal guns if he can just walk to the shop down the street, order military-grade weaponry, cackle maniacally and watch how the vendor prints out the bill without batting an eyelash?



I think you answered your own question.

Because if it was about the legality of purchasing it we'd have 311 million people just shooting each other with legally purchased guns. The fact is the number of people doing this is just very small. People left to their own devices of choice, most won't bother with gun purchases. Those who do still aren't the homicidal maniacs. Guns are more scary than other things that have killed people  

Don't get me wrong, there are some guns you may have to question out on the market. I'm really not a gun advocate though I believe people have the right to bear arms, I have no interest in guns whatsoever for myself. I just think this gets more attention so people kinda boogeyman the issue. 

But people planning to kill mass amounts of people find ways to do it with or without guns. I don't think "tragedy prevented" in this case but he'd find another way if he's that crazy.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 21, 2012)

I once read a story called A Piece of Wood by Ray Bradbury. I won't give the synopsis, but I will give a paraphrased quote of something said that rang true and stuck with me for all these years. A soldier about to be sent to war asked his sergeant what we'd do without weapons and he felt it would be a better world. The sergeant says something eloquent along these lines.

"If you take away our guns, we'll beat each other with our fists and form armies of men in boxing gloves of steel spikes. Take the gloves away, we'd use our fingernails and feet. Cut our legs off, we'd spit on each other. Cut off the tongues and put corks in the mouths, we'd fill the atmosphere with so much hate that mosquitoes would drop to the ground and birds would fall off telephone wires..."

I vote for increased regulation. Not taking guns away entirely. It certainly won't keep crime down 100%, but it could help further minimize these gruesome incidents. Decimating the 2nd amendment? I see no change from it because a black market will be created, one. Two, what are you going to take away next, knives? We have to take mental exams at Wally World when we want to buy kitchen ware? What? >.<

But, then again, I'm not well versed in the wacky world of politics. Everyone is always seems to be wrong there! So I don't really know for sure what would happen. :<


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## Elim Garak (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Why should a homicidal fucker risk getting caught buying illegal guns if he can just walk to the shop down the street, order military-grade weaponry, cackle maniacally and watch how the vendor prints out the bill without batting an eyelash?


In countries where it is banned they still get them.
Shooting happens here at times regardless of our strict weapon laws.
Whatever you do you can't prevent them from getting them.
http://gizmodo.com/5927379/the-secret-online-weapons-store-thatll-sell-anyone-anything
It's easier and pretty secure than you think, it's retardly safe to get illegal weapons. The only way you'll get caught if they search your car.
Anyways, shootings happen at schools where there are explicit no carry areas by law in US.
They happen here, with the most strict laws in the EU.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

Here's a list of mass shootings in the US since 2005. As you can see, it's over sixty pages long.

Don't tell me the gun oversaturation doesn't create a normalizing arms fetishism culture that's fertile ground for gun violence.

Seriously, all this gun apologia in the wake of such a crime is highly inappropriate.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

It's 60 PAGES! The sky is falling!

Meaning, to tell me something is 60 pages long in relative to what? Because it is 60 pages it's over? Gun deaths are tragic but so are many other deaths. It took only some boxcutters to commit one of the bigger mass killings. It took some knowledge of chemistry to commit a mass killings and thousands of injuries in a subway. 

There is no doubt that those victims did not deserve what happened to them. However, the hindsight police about "carrying a gun would have prevented this" are on the same spectrum of "if these guns were illegal it would have prevented it".

So you'll excuse my standoffishness when both ends of the spectrum come out and try to play this game of "preventing tragedies" It gives little condolence to the people who lost their loved ones or died. It's like grasping at straws.


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## cobalt-blue (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Seriously, all this gun apologia in the wake of such a crime is highly inappropriate.



As well as all the gun ban advocates using it as a spring board for furthering their agenda.


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## Elim Garak (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Here's a list of mass shootings in the US since 2005. As you can see, it's over sixty pages long.
> 
> Don't tell me the gun oversaturation doesn't create a normalizing arms fetishism culture that's fertile ground for gun violence.
> 
> Seriously, all this gun apologia in the wake of such a crime is highly inappropriate.


http://www.spreekillers.ch/
America probably has more shootings than most countries....seeing its larger than most countries.


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 21, 2012)

So he dyed his hair red proclaiming he was the joker...doesnt the joker have green hair?
Also I saw on the news that he could of been reinacting a scene from the comic book where a guy with red hair shot up a movie theater killing 3 people.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's 60 PAGES! The sky is falling!


62 pages listing hundreds of murder victims. The sky _has _fallen.



cobalt-blue said:


> As well as all the gun ban advocates using it as a spring board for furthering their agenda.


This killing spree isn't a spring board, it's an outbreak of a disease that threatens to consume your society and advocates of common sense gun laws play the part of conscientious doctors diagnosing it and proposing a cure.



Elim Garak said:


> America probably has more shootings than most countries....seeing its larger than most countries.


Yeah, right, and Nessie disproves evolution...


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## cobalt-blue (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> This killing spree isn't a spring board, it's an outbreak of a disease that threatens to consume your society and advocates of common sense gun laws play the part of conscientious doctors diagnosing it and proposing a cure.



This is a individual that went from being a student working on his Ph. D to mass murderer.  Obviously some sort of disease was a factor.  We would not be discussing this if he had used a semi-truck to run through some sort of outdoor gathering.


 Laws are for the law abiding.  If a person is willing to commit murder an illegal weapon charge is pretty minor.   


 If through some sort of divine intervention we could have all the firearms and their related knowledge wiped from our minds and off the face of the earth I would be all for it.   


 But just like over in the M.A.D thread.


 You can't put the genie back in the bottle.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

d.batty said:


> So he dyed his hair red proclaiming he was the joker...doesnt the joker have green hair?
> Also I saw on the news that he could of been reinacting a scene from the comic book where a guy with red hair shot up a movie theater killing 3 people.



Well if you can...kinda understand http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3507794#post3507794 this post (guy speaks wordsalad pretty well). The one of the cops commented on his look asking if he was the joker and the gunman just said "whatever" so it's entirely possible someone in the media ran with "Oh look he thinks he's the Joker"


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 21, 2012)

Makes sense.  It was on fox news anyway.


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## Elim Garak (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Yeah, right, and Nessie disproves evolution...



More people in larger country usually means more nutjobs in that country.
In developed countries anyway, Africa et al is different due lack of decent police work and mental support.
Anyways, its still easy to get weapons anywhere illegaly, there have been several shootings here, and most weapons are completely illegal here or require really really strict licenses.
The weapons used in the shootings were illegal weapons, no legal ones were used in quite a long while. Here in Belgium at least.
Also its so simple to make explosives and weapons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
I can make at least 5 types of bombs using nothing but basic chemical knowledge(not that I would).
The internet also has quite a few manuals on how to make explosives and weapons.
However I am not against gun laws really, it's just pointless to say it's hard for a nutjob to get a weapon when they are illegal.
Analysts estimate about 1.8 million illegal weapons in Belgium exist. There are only 80.000 people with a permits(MAX LIMIT BY LAW), only hunters and sportshooters can get a license, they have to a practical and medical test before and every 5 years they have to do it again when they renew, and only specific types of weapons are allowed, especially nothing fully automatic.
For a perspective: Belgium only has 11 million residents.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wapenwet_(België)
For reference, in Dutch.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

cobalt-blue said:


> Obviously some sort of disease was a factor.


You bet it was. A social disease, to be precise. A sick society of gun and violence normalization that imprints the view guns solve problems on people and gives them the necessary tools to realize their conviction. This normalization culture is the reason why so disproportionately many in your country turn to violence to solve problems, whether it be hoody-wearing niggers tainting the neighborhood or a world that needs to see who's the real Joker.



> You can't put the genie back in the bottle.


'Course you can. By _taking away their guns._


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## Carnie (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> So you'll excuse my standoffishness when both ends of the spectrum come out and try to play this game of "preventing tragedies" It gives little condolence to the people who lost their loved ones or died. It's like grasping at straws.



Reading throughout the thread, your sarcasm and attitude aren't excusable, actually. It's been pretty tasteless.

While I generally agree with your sentiment, "carrying a gun would have prevented this" certainly can be true in some situations. You can't argue that the statement is absolutely wrong, anytime, every time. Arguing about the conditions of the movie theater is terrible as well, seeing as we still don't know the exact conditions, it seems. 

And to be honest, this thread is hardly about condolences any more. If it were, we wouldn't have allowed the arguments to get so far.


----------



## cobalt-blue (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> 'Course you can. By _taking away their guns._



If it was just that easy.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

Commie Bat said:


> Then they'll be using hatchets, knives, bats, and metal rods.  Might as well ban those to. ~


Mass killings with short-ranged weapons?

We don't live in one of those shitty Hollywood action flicks.



> Besides how would you go about doing this; especially since the large amount of guns people already own, and what's in circulation?  Also to my understanding it's protected by the American constitution.


No matter what the conserfascists claim the constitution isn't gospel and can be changed if worst comes to worst, what is obviously the case.

Many things can be confiscated if the permission of use/possession gets voided. If you need the National Guard to take away the paramilitary-sized arsenals of homicidal hillbillies, so be it. Future generations will thank you.


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## Corto (Jul 21, 2012)

Just wanted to repeat that "man everyone there should have had a gun that solves everything because CC permits turn you into the ultimate warrior" is the stupidest argument and it boggles my mind.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

Commie Bat said:


> About that.


A sad event, to be sure, but it's more the exception than the rule.

A grown man can seriously harm many children, but imagine how Holmes would've fared with merely a kitchen knife.

Not knifes kill people, firearms kill people.

(Btw, I'm not for a universal ban on guns. Just better, more extensive background checks and a ban on the acquisition of military-grade hardware by private citizens. Y'know, common sense gun laws.)


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## Corto (Jul 21, 2012)

Commie Bat said:


> About that.
> 
> 
> 
> Not what I was going for.  I just think banning guns out right, is a little ridiculous.  Though I do agree with you in regards of CC permits.



Wasn't replying to you, sorry if you thought that. Just a general observation.


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## cobalt-blue (Jul 21, 2012)

Commie Bat said:


> About that.



This is what needs to happen in the US.  Commit the crime in 2001 hanged in 2004.  In this current event even if he is sentenced to death it will be 20 years if ever to be carried out.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Carnie said:


> Reading throughout the thread, your sarcasm and attitude aren't excusable, actually. It's been pretty tasteless.
> 
> While I generally agree with your sentiment, "carrying a gun would have prevented this" certainly can be true in some situations. You can't argue that the statement is absolutely wrong, anytime, every time. Arguing about the conditions of the movie theater is terrible as well, seeing as we still don't know the exact conditions, it seems.



What boggles my mind is the lack of reading comprehension. My argument is that people are guessing about how they can prevent this situation either with the idea of banning guns, or having a gun. So if it's tasteless-  it is in regards to people's opinions that they could have prevented it with either method. Information about the tragedy is one thing people's bizarre habits of second guessing everything is another. Human nature and all that.   

So yeah, it's pretty tasteless to put up stupid motivational posters "summing up people's thoughts" or hey "this is 60 pages" so you find my sarcasm and opinion of those presenting these ideas tasteless well sorry buddy, I really don't care.



Gryphoneer said:


> A grown man can seriously harm many children, but imagine how Holmes would've fared with merely a kitchen knife.
> 
> Not knifes kill people, firearms kill people.



Or if he bombed the theater. I think people forgot the police were scared of the explosives and the fact his apartment was probably booby-trapped. Oh well. It's all about the guns.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...g-victims-identified-20120721,0,2718684.story


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## Judge Spear (Jul 21, 2012)

People seem to be focusing on the mass part of the murder in this thread and the media. Serial killers can get huge headcounts over time with whatever means stimulate their deranged pleasures. Does it really matter how quickly it can happen in regards to the weapon used? A life lost by any means is still a life lost. Or rather a life taken. It can be done with as little as a fucking pillow. Nowhere near as fast, but the pint I was making in my last post and this one is what you ban won't change shit. There will still be other methods of carrying out the dastardly deed.

I figured that was the point of people saying "don't ban guns". Also figured it to be obvious from the start. :/


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## Grimfang (Jul 21, 2012)

Man.. I can't even get into the gun laws debate. I made a very mild comment on Facebook in response to a friend's linking of Roger Ebert's response to the situation, and without even comprehending anything we said, his father went ape-shit. In response to suggesting that assault rifles might not be practical enough to be available to civilians, I received the counter-argument of the day: Gays should be made illegal cus [gays] with AIDS kill more people than civilians with guns.

Sooo... apparently the battle lines formed on this issue long before I got involved. People don't ever seem open to changing their views on gun laws anyway.

Regardless of the debate this tragedy has re-awoken, the event itself is just horrible. After reading about the booby traps and plans this guy had for his apartment... god, the guy is twisted.


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 21, 2012)

Grimfang said:


> Gays should be made illegal cus [gays] with AIDS kill more people than civilians with guns.


I can see this on bumper stickers and t-shirts of certain people.

Together with this.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Grimfang said:


> Regardless of the debate this tragedy has re-awoken, the event itself is just horrible. After reading about the booby traps and plans this guy had for his apartment... god, the guy is twisted.



If the guy actually set off the explosives he had in the theater, it would have been much, much worse. It's scary how easy IEDs can be made and how much damage they can cause. Oklahoma City bombing...


----------



## Grimfang (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> I can see this on bumper stickers and t-shirts of certain people.
> 
> Together with this.



It's the first time I've heard that statement, but I assume that it's quick and catchy enough to be used frequently. It's perfect for bumper-stick wisdom.

The guy said a number of insulting things, so I decided to disinvolve myself from yet another current event/political issue in the US. Now there's a problem between this guy and his father, so I feel really bad for the position he's in. Best way to respond to a massacre.. insult family and friends.



Arshes Nei said:


> If the guy actually set off the explosives he had in the theater, it would have been much, much worse. It's scary how easy IEDs can be made and how much damage they can cause. Oklahoma City bombing...



He had IEDs in the theater as well? Wow...
Sorry if this is being repeated. It has probably already been said in the thread, although I just read the first and last pages. I should check an updated article on this.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 21, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> No matter what the conserfascists claim the constitution isn't gospel and can be changed if worst comes to worst, what is obviously the case.
> 
> Many things can be confiscated if the permission of use/possession gets voided. If you need the National Guard to take away the paramilitary-sized arsenals of homicidal hillbillies, so be it. Future generations will thank you.


I like this post. Very very much.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

Grimfang said:


> He had IEDs in the theater as well? Wow...
> Sorry if this is being repeated. It has probably already been said in the thread, although I just read the first and last pages. I should check an updated article on this.



No he didn't because if he did it could have been much worse. He did have a number of explosives and traps set up at his home. I think there was mention of explosives in his car too but I need to go back and read updated reports.


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## Elim Garak (Jul 21, 2012)

There have been mass killings with Shovel Loaders, busses. Also remember the guy who stole the tank and destroyed a town with it? Remember the guy with the armored kill dozer he made? No fatalities there but still.
Like I said, making bombs is easy, and they wont get spotted till the bomb goes off.
ETA train bombings, also I had a calculation i made somewhere about the international Bxl to Amsterdam.. I lost it though but basically three bombs going of on certain sections of the train while its driving would kill the hunderds of people in the the train. These could be placed easily using the overhead compartments and toilets(which can be force locked from outside) and has no snags as there is no bag checks at train stations and nobody thinks twice about seeing people with bags. The lunatic could leave the train at a station while the shit is still in place with a timer or phone attached(It's really easy to make bombs ignited by phone) and walks out unharmed and possibly undetected if you stay out of the view of the cameras(Little cameras at stations and they do not overlap and have dead angles).
And I'll probably get called insane for thinking about this, but I actually wrote a report about this and sent it to my political party and they "would look into it" two years ago.

Also, some systems are terribly unsecured, a while back they were testing security of systems, some idiot thought it was a good idea to have the computer and PLC system that controlled the chemical additions to the clean water supply hooked up to a network with connection to the internet, and the security researchers managed to get in to the point where they could control the PLC system, people would get poisoned en masse with someone hacking from his home.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 21, 2012)

Elim Garak said:


> Also remember the guy who stole the tank and destroyed a town with it?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpxeWQ_XJw

That?  A few buildings is not an ENTIRE TOWN lol


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## Elim Garak (Jul 21, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpxeWQ_XJw
> 
> That?  A few buildings is not an ENTIRE TOWN lol


Ah nah I was thinking about some other incident.
Also that's the kill dozer, hers the tank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vESIVemfG8
.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 21, 2012)

Elim Garak said:


> Ah nah I was thinking about some other incident.
> Also that's the kill dozer, hers the tank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vESIVemfG8
> .



Ah.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer.  I admire him for what he did (kinda sorta), but the whole religious thing he was talking about on the tapes he left...meh..but interesting story nonetheless.


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## Carnie (Jul 21, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> What boggles my mind is the lack of reading comprehension. My argument is that people are guessing about how they can prevent this situation either with the idea of banning guns, or having a gun. So if it's tasteless-  it is in regards to people's opinions that they could have prevented it with either method. Information about the tragedy is one thing people's bizarre habits of second guessing everything is another. Human nature and all that.
> 
> So yeah, it's pretty tasteless to put up stupid motivational posters "summing up people's thoughts" or hey "this is 60 pages" so you find my sarcasm and opinion of those presenting these ideas tasteless well sorry buddy, I really don't care.



Was that reading comprehension remark supposed to be targeted at me? If so, unnecessary and misguided insults towards a poster's reading comprehension are tasteless as well. I understand what your argument was about. Doesn't matter what your sarcasm was directed at either; still tasteless. It isn't your opinion that I had a problem with, only the sarcasm. I'm not going to insult you for not understanding that though.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 21, 2012)

If you're great at comprehending, arguing after the "I don't care" part seems to be a bit backwards there.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 21, 2012)

This thread is depressing in every possible way...


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## Judge Spear (Jul 21, 2012)

Ok, I'm getting real sick of two things that have been cropping up: people calling Holmes and hero and that the victims were scumbags and that people shouldn't give a shit about this because it's just 12 dead.


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## Onnes (Jul 21, 2012)

Pachi-O said:


> Ok, I'm getting real sick of two things that have been cropping up: people calling Holmes and hero and that the victims were scumbags and that people shouldn't give a shit about this because it's just 12 dead.



Wait, where the heck are going that this is actually an issue?


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## zachhart12 (Jul 21, 2012)

Pachi-O said:


> Ok, I'm getting real sick of two things that have been cropping up: people calling Holmes and hero and that the victims were scumbags and that people shouldn't give a shit about this because it's just 12 dead.



A hero...or AN HERO?  God I'm so mean...


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 21, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> A hero...or AN HERO?  God I'm so mean...



*gasp* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxPF9AeHznE


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## zachhart12 (Jul 21, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> *gasp* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxPF9AeHznE



lol!


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## NobleThorne (Jul 22, 2012)

we got more people that can afford guns and percentage wise we probably got more people in this country that would shoot someone that was disrespecting. It would be nice if this world was void of the thug or gangster attitude, that's a bit unrelated to this incident though.
I think he did it because he was in situation he didn't see any way out of, debt from schooling. If he wanted to go down in a shoot out he wouldn't have had the suit and he wouldn't have been arrested. Going to jail gets him out of any debt situation and into prison were he'll be kept comfortable till he dies. Its unfortunate that this happened and its unfortunate that he isn't likely to receive the death penalty.


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## FlynnCoyote (Jul 22, 2012)

He had multiple firearms and only managed twelve confirmed kills in a crowded cinema? 

He obviously wasn't trying.


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## Aleu (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm sorry, I'd rather not live in a police state where only the military and law enforcement would have guns. As for changing the Constitution? Remember the last time something was banned? That turned out quite well didn't it? Sure the Constitution CAN be amended but only to allow more rights for people. Not less. If guns are banned, then people will still get their guns through the black market. My God when it comes to gun control, both sides have some of the most ridiculous arguments.


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## Elim Garak (Jul 22, 2012)

Aleu said:


> I'm sorry, I'd rather not live in a police state where only the military and law enforcement would have guns. As for changing the Constitution? Remember the last time something was banned? That turned out quite well didn't it? Sure the Constitution CAN be amended but only to allow more rights for people. Not less. If guns are banned, then people will still get their guns through the black market. My God when it comes to gun control, both sides have some of the most ridiculous arguments.


Banning weapons would make people get their shit from the black market, however for gun licenses you should have background checks for criminal records, and medical examination.
You can't allow criminals to carry guns around legally.


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## Echo Wolf (Jul 22, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> What boggles my mind is the lack of reading  comprehension. My argument is that people are guessing about how they  can prevent this situation either with the idea of banning guns, or  having a gun. So if it's tasteless-  it is in regards to people's  opinions that they could have prevented it with either method.  Information about the tragedy is one thing people's bizarre habits of  second guessing everything is another. Human nature and all that.
> 
> So yeah, it's pretty tasteless to put up stupid motivational posters  "summing up people's thoughts" or hey "this is 60 pages" so you find my  sarcasm and opinion of those presenting these ideas tasteless well sorry  buddy, I really don't care.



I just re-read everything I posted and realized that I was being  very vague and that may have made my statements come off as very  douchebagish/ insensitive. What I meant when I said this "sums up my  thoughts" I was speaking about my views towards conceal and carry, I  will state right now that I am in favor of Vermont Carry Laws. I wasn't  trying to say if someone was carrying a gun this entire situation could  have been prevented, I was just saying that it's when things like this  that remind me why I'm in favor of that type of legislation. Now could  Vermont Carry Laws have changed the outcome of this particular  situation? I don't know for sure and really no one can say for sure  either way. I just felt I needed to call myself out on that/ clear it up, I know  that I can be vague sometimes and it's something I'm working on.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 22, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> A hero...or AN HERO?  God I'm so mean...



As conscious as I am about my grammar and spelling, that huge slip up typo slipped right past me. I'm sorry.


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## Digitalpotato (Jul 22, 2012)

mrfoxwily said:


> All the more reason to have a concealed carry license. :\




Here's my "trolling" thing to concealed carry:

You shoot any civilians by mistake, or kill them? Then *YOU* take responsibility for that and *YOU* pay the consequences. Before you say "Oh but I was trying to save them", don't cops and soldiers actually have to pay consequences for accidentally harming civilians?

Sides...go shoot and kill someone wearing body armour dead when there are dozens of people running around to get in the way and you're being tear-gassed. Come on. Show us how easy it is.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 22, 2012)

Elim Garak said:


> Banning weapons would make people get their shit from the black market, however for gun licenses you should have background checks for criminal records, and medical examination.
> You can't allow criminals to carry guns around legally.



I think Aleu would agree, I think her reply was to the two extreme viewpoints that went on for gun control. Though I'm sure she can reply. I don't mind stricter regulations for certain kinds of firearms, and in fact, I believe one of the ones the killer used was one on the list before a previous ban on it was lifted. 




Echo Wolf said:


> I just re-read everything I posted and realized that I was being  very vague and that may have made my statements come off as very  douchebagish/ insensitive. What I meant when I said this "sums up my  thoughts" I was speaking about my views towards conceal and carry,



Tis Cool

The Knee-Jerk reaction is to the guns and really, http://blog.al.com/wire/2012/07/police_colorado_shooting_suspe.html this guy was planning some scary shit for months. If he didn't get the guns, the way he boobytrapped his house tells me he could have just bombed the shit out of the theater as well. That has a lot more damage.


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## Aldino (Jul 22, 2012)

I didn't go to the premier in my state, but my sibling and a lot of my friends did. Its unnerving to think this could have been here and happend to them, and I wouldn't have been able to do anything about it.


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## sunshyne (Jul 22, 2012)

NobleThorne said:


> we got more people that can afford guns and percentage wise we probably got more people in this country that would shoot someone that was disrespecting. It would be nice if this world was void of the thug or gangster attitude, that's a bit unrelated to this incident though.
> I think he did it because he was in situation he didn't see any way out of, debt from schooling. If he wanted to go down in a shoot out he wouldn't have had the suit and he wouldn't have been arrested. Going to jail gets him out of any debt situation and into prison were he'll be kept comfortable till he dies. Its unfortunate that this happened and its unfortunate that he isn't likely to receive the death penalty.



Listen, I'm sorry to put this in such terms, and I know this phrase gets thrown around way too much with not much sincerity, but... this is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. 

You are actually speculating that this guy killed 12 people and injured over 50, including little children, because he thought it would be a good way out of his student debt??? Are you fucking with me? Student debt is a reality for MOST people who go through college any more, let alone grad school. I've got it, my friends have it, their friends have it, etc.. Few of us have jobs, and none of us can foresee the day when we'll ever be able to pay down all of our debts. But I can tell you with confidence that none of us are thinking "hmm, mass murder?" as a way of escaping them.

No source has said anything like this whatsoever, so it appears to be wild speculation on your part, am I correct? And, naturally, it seems to be based off of this cute delusion that going to prison for the rest of one's life is like being sentenced to the fucking Courtyard by Marriott. I read your locked thread on the other board. Your ridiculous notions about what life is like in state prison are so flat-out wrong, they are simply laughable. If you _honestly_ think that prison is nice enough a place that someone would consider a life sentence as an alternative to paying off their student debt, then you need to do yourself a favor and actually visit one. I'm serious. Go down to your county jail and take a tour, even (where they only keep the minor criminals). You'll get threatened with rape and murder so many times, it will change your worldview. 

Your views on prison and politics, as you expressed them in your now-locked RR thread, are hopelessly mixed up and contradictory. You complain about being made to support convicted criminals for the rest of their lives, and ALSO complain that in some prisons they are allowed to work paying jobs, like it is some kind of luxury. You leave out the fact that they are only given the most undesirable jobs out there, like telemarketing or manual labor, AND (wait for it, youâ€™ll love this part) they keep virtually none of their wages, which actually go to offset the cost of their incarceration. True story... Also, you complain about the â€œliberal modelâ€ of dealing with criminals, then turn around and complain about the privatization of American prisons, which is an [exclusively] conservative idea. The fact is, you don't know the first thing about prison. You come off as simply angry at the justice system because it canâ€™t be perfect (and naturally itâ€™s all the Liberalsâ€™ fault, but thatâ€™s another thread).

Here are some facts. In many prisons, inmates are racially segregated and the only way to completely eliminate the chance of being beaten, extorted, or raped is to join a racially-unified prison gang. Most of them have banned exercise equipment and anything but blunt, plastic butter knives, because otherwise there would be inmate murders more frequently. I don't know about other states, but here the only TV you'll be watching in a state prison is either religious or educational programming (and hint: it sure as hell won't be in HD). Most prison systems have gotten good at feeding every inmate for about $3 a day â€“ which is the gourmet food that youâ€™re under the impression we are bringing to our murderers on silver platters. In 2010, the Supreme Court ordered California to release nearly 50,000 inmates from its state prisons because they had become so overcrowded that an inmate was _dying_ of a fully-preventable illness about once a week on average. In San Quentin state prison (built in the early 1900's an never renovated since), the plumbing system is so old and broken that nasty toilet water overflows some cells, and rains down over the balcony onto the cell block from time to time. Despite what your conservative idols have convinced you, thereâ€™s a reason people are willing to risk their lives in car chases and shootouts before theyâ€™ll go back to prison. 

Am I saying that the worst criminals in society deserve better? Hell no. But does it make it a facially absurd argument to imply that a young doctoral student would rationally choose that as a way of escaping DEBT? Hell yes... And for what it's worth, I base my views on a formal legal education and over five years working in the criminal justice system; you base yours on Full Metal Alchemist (according to your previous thread). People can take their pick.


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## Icen (Jul 22, 2012)

Ugh, that's just terrible. I can't even...words cannot describe these kinds of atrocities. D:


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## Neuron (Jul 22, 2012)

Serpion5 said:


> He obviously wasn't trying.


A young woman by the last name Seegar reported that Holmes aimed directly at her face from a few feet away, and for some mysterious reason shot the person behind her instead. She is at the moment a little psychologically tormented about why he choose not to shoot her out of all the innocent women and men and children he shot. What this tells me is that somewhere in the back of his mind, no matter how cold he was, there was a seed of doubt. 

This shooting may or may not have been prevented, we could argue all day. But at the end of the day, I'm just disturbed that someone who we would all assume to be better than that and not stoop so low out of his insane amounts of opportunity, would stoop so low and indications of his feeling hopeless in the situation with "opportunity" are all around us. 

I do have to wonder if he intended to die, but it seems like he intended to put up one hell of a fight with all that body armor so it's hard to say.


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## Ad Hoc (Jul 22, 2012)

Yo, I hate to sound heartless, but maybe this dude's just a violent asshole.

It's true that the school system is kind of borked. Society in general is riddled with problems. But there are a lot of depressed folks and a couple _generations_ of people who've been bent over the table by the education system, and it would appear that practically all of them are able to deal with it without shooting up a crowded theater. Even if the school situation was a vital domino in the string of events that lead to this, it takes a fantastic level of entitlement and dickery to go, "Well, I didn't get what I was promised; therefor, I'm going to _kill as many innocent people as possible_."

I really hate to even bring it up here because folks are likely going to take it all kinds of wrong, but if this guy was black or middle-eastern, it is highly doubtful that he'd get this level of scrutiny. A few people might try to explain him, but he'd get dismissed as a simple thug or terrorist by the general media and public, and that'd be that. Even if there was some sympathy, it'd be no where near the level of what this guy is getting. Speculations about this guy's motives are going to make headlines for weeks or months. He's going to get books and documentaries and movies; fictional characters will be based on him, dark'n'edgy teenage artists of all sorts will be "inspired" by him.

Not that I'm saying that it's an injustice that non-white criminals of this variety don't get this attention--it's _good_ that they don't. No criminal of this sort should get this attention, no matter where they come from. I suppose I'm being a hypocrite here, but might the fact that we give these criminals (when they are white) all this attention and that we paint them as tragic victims of circumstance (instead of the limpdicked, entitled shits that they are) itself be a factor in their decision to commit these crimes?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the sociological value of looking at where crime comes from. You identify, say, poverty as a factor in crime rates, take steps to reduce poverty, and bam! Lower crime rate. But that should be for preventing future criminals, not giving current ones a pass. Do it with sterile, anonymous facts and figures in dull scholarly articles that occasionally get dumbed down for "Freakonomics"-type books for general consumption. Don't do it with sensational stories. 

If we _have_ to sell a story here, can't we sell one about the heroes and actual victims? How about this guy? Let's talk about him. He's a hero, he deserves national recognition. I'm sure aome of you have probably heard of him, national news has given him a couple minutes and a few articles, but is anyone going to remember his name when this is over? Our kids will know James Holmes' name the same way we know the Unabomber (despite his being before most of our times). No one will remember Jarell Brooks. 


I'm not even sure that this incident is a fantastic argument for educational reform. Incidents like these are pretty singular; we're not exactly having an epidemic of violent crime among post-graduates. (I'm sure the general crime rate among them has been rising, but that's likely more related to poverty/etc.,) Economic issues make for much stronger arguments.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 22, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> Yo, I hate to sound heartless, but maybe this dude's just a violent asshole.
> Etc. Etc.


Am I rubbing off on you? :V
In all seriousness though, the truth behind your first statement cannot be denied by a reasonable person.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 22, 2012)

Just throwing this out there that using this event as a springboard to bitch about tuition or how evil gun control laws are is a pretty douchy thing to do. 

Also the jackasses I've seen going off on conspiracy theories over this or making bold statements as to the shooter's motives.  Here's a thought kids, how about waiting for the damn trial so we can get some real ideas on what went on here hmm?


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## Rilvor (Jul 22, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Just throwing this out there that using this event as a springboard to bitch about tuition or how evil gun control laws are is a pretty douchy thing to do.
> 
> Also the jackasses I've seen going off on conspiracy theories over this or making bold statements as to the shooter's motives.  Here's a thought kids, how about waiting for the damn trial so we can get some real ideas on what went on here hmm?



It's rather similar to the neighbors in Edward Scissorhands, isn't it?

Note: I am NOT saying the shooter is a sympathetic character like Edward Scissorhands.


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## CannonFodder (Jul 22, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Just throwing this out there that using this event as a springboard to bitch about tuition or how evil gun control laws are is a pretty douchy thing to do.
> 
> Also the jackasses I've seen going off on conspiracy theories over this or making bold statements as to the shooter's motives.  Here's a thought kids, how about waiting for the damn trial so we can get some real ideas on what went on here hmm?


If you think that's bad there's already internet jokes and memes about it, such as someone on facebook made the joke "they wanted to see the movie, but only got a few clips" or some other douche saying "So I heard the new batman movie made a killing".  Hell some people are even calling him a hero :[

It was inevitable this shooting was going to lead to a discussion on gun control and tuition rates though.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 22, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> If you think that's bad there's already internet jokes and memes about it, such as someone on facebook made the joke "they wanted to see the movie, but only got a few clips" or some other douche saying "So I heard the new batman movie made a killing".  Hell some people are even calling him a hero :[



I'm aware of the jokes and those dont bother me as much considering A) that's some people's way of dealing with tragedy, and B) there's a lot of immature pricks who don't understand the concept of "too soon". 



> It was inevitable this shooting was going to lead to a discussion on gun control and tuition rates though.



The tuition bit at least no, I don't see how that's "inevitable" because you're still using mental gymnastics to try and peg the motive of the shooter. The gun control bit is a moot point as Arshes pointed out the dude could have also just as easily bombed the place with IEDs given his apparent knowledge of explosives.

Bad people doing terrible shit with devastating tools. That's the long and the short of it and the only question that remains is the why which hopefully will be answered in the coming months.


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## CannonFodder (Jul 22, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> The tuition bit at least no, I don't see how that's "inevitable" because you're still using mental gymnastics to try and peg the motive of the shooter. The gun control bit is a moot point as Arshes pointed out the dude could have also just as easily bombed the place with IEDs given his apparent knowledge of explosives.
> 
> Bad people doing terrible shit with devastating tools. That's the long and the short of it and the only question that remains is the why which hopefully will be answered in the coming months.


I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics.  Countries that have banned the sale of guns to civilians contrary to popular belief have had no real effect on crime rates.  The pro-right to bear arm side and those against the right to bear arms are both wrong.

You are right the guy would have found a way to kill people regardless, especially considering his apartment was rigged to go KABOOM.

The bit about the tuition rate was inevitable because people like a quick easy thing to blame tragedy on to focus their anger and despair on and what better way for people to do that than blame his economic situation?   People need a scapegoat to blame.  In this case people have begun to blame the fact that he was doing bad in college for the reason why he snapped.  However there is nothing wrong with using scapegoats to push forth causes.  For example if the tragedy successfully is used to push forth reduction in student tuition rates and save countless college graduates from massive amounts of debt would you say it is wrong for them to do so?  It is highly inappropriate, immoral and evil to do so.  That's the way society gets things done quick, use a scapegoat to rally everyone to a cause that they feel as though they are doing the right thing.

Before you say that it was low of me to say that.  No I do not think he snapped cause of his tuition.  I do not agree that gun rights had anything to do with his going crazy.  I do not think it's right to use tragedy to push political agenda, *I'm just playing the devil's advocate*.


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## Ad Hoc (Jul 22, 2012)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> Am I rubbing off on you? :V
> In all seriousness though, the truth behind your first statement cannot be denied by a reasonable person.


I've held that position for years and came to it by very different means. I'm still a rather sympathetic person and far from "tough on crime."

The day that I decide that people are wholly unreasonable simply for disagreeing with a single subjective opinion of mine is the day that I hope my various mentors come around to thump me a good one, though. That's a silly proposition, Mr. Ruppell, very silly.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 22, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics.



The you wasn't directed as you specifically, but as "you all".

Likewise im not about to start arguing gun control in this thread. If someone wants to make a separate gun control thread I'll participate in it, but I'm not going to start talking politics in a thread about innocent people bein senselessly killed by an animal. 

And as I've alluded to I'm not going to speculate on this dudes motives, just that the guessing game people are playin here is stupid when there's an ongoing investigation that should help clear up some of the unanswered questions. I'm not surprised that people decide to take a massacre of 12 innocent kids and almost 100 wounded and try to make it about them and their personal politics.


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## Neuron (Jul 22, 2012)

I think people misunderstood me as wanting to say that with enough socioeconomic consequences, everyone is going to become a crazed shooter like this asshole. Or perhaps that he is fully justified in his reasons because of a lot of hardship. That is not exactly what I meant.

What I meant was I get the feeling that while certainly he is just a crazy guy with problems, those economic hardships he had to face certainly didn't help. There's a lot of crazy people who work in society with inclinations towards violent thought, and they go about their day without any incidence of harm on another human being. Perhaps it is in that they are being kept busy and it keeps them healthy, perhaps it is that it keeps them busy and too time-consumed to concoct those plans, but nonetheless these people exist.

So I do still think it might be that, quite unfortunately, we finally saw the one guy who unreasonably deals with this kind of thing. I think that, even if most people are never going to turn into shooters because of those reasons, and those reasons are not fully the motivation for why he did it, this event should make us ask these questions. 

My main concern is that the one warning sign that people are sure of is that he had indications of depression from chronic unemployment. Lots of people have that, but obviously it wasn't doing this guy any favors.

I mean, who knows, his mind could have been fully broken and he could have unleashed hell even with a pretty good set of opportunities that he wanted and such. My boyfriend even pointed out to me later that he's probably going to fail grad school if he suddenly descends into madness and spends all his free time building IEDs. That brings up a better question for you to consider though: Should society be concerned over the sheer amount of people with that much free time on their hands? Inevitably, a few in that bunch are going to be bad apples, but not all of them are so it really would be hard to say for sure what a solution could be. 

And, of course, I do bring this up in light of the concern of "copycats" that may happen over time that may use these highly illogical defenses as their motivation if it comes out that these things I'm talking about contributed. It'll be up to him to tell us what's up on Monday, though. Hopefully he won't "inspire" any other creeps. :c


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## Bliss (Jul 22, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I'm not surprised that people decide to take a massacre of 12 innocent kids and almost 100 wounded and try to make it about them and their personal politics.


_Personal fucking politics?_ Gun control policy is damn relevant to public safety which obviously failed here.

 But hey! we _know_ people _could_ do these crazy massacres with cricket bats and fuse bombs as well so it is irrelevant to discuss guns. Not to mention disrespectful to the 'kids'!


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## Aleu (Jul 22, 2012)

Elim Garak said:


> Banning weapons would make people get their shit from the black market, however for gun licenses you should have background checks for criminal records, and medical examination.
> You can't allow criminals to carry guns around legally.


Excuse me? I never said anything like guns should be available for everyone. Just that banning them outright is stupid. It didn't work for prohibition, it hasn't worked with abortion, it's not working in the "drug war", so how can anyone with a fucking brain cell say that it would be any different with guns?
Yes, there needs to be restrictions. Valid identification, background check, and whatever else. I think there should also be mandatory safety classes for anyone purchasing it.


Ad Hoc said:


> Yo, I hate to sound heartless, but maybe this dude's just a violent asshole.



uhm...where the hell are you going where people are making excuses for him? Because most people I know want him strung up by his balls regardless of what race he'd be. And I go to a mostly conservative news site. (As in, the users/commenters. Not the actual site)


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 22, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I'm aware of the jokes and those don't bother me as much considering A) that's some people's way of dealing with tragedy, and B) there's a lot of immature pricks for whom decency is an alien concept.


Fixed that for you.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 22, 2012)

Lizzie said:


> _Personal fucking politics?_ Gun control policy is damn relevant to public safety which obviously failed here.



Frankly I really don't give a shit about "Yiffyfurry69's" personal views on gun control or their theories on why this dude did what he did because whenever there's a big shooting suddenly everyone and their mother is a criminology major because they watched a couple episodes of CSI/Law and Order that one time.  Especially not in a thread that starts off talking about the events and someone has to be "that guy" who says "YA KNOW IF EVERYONE HAD GUNS/GUNS WERE BANNED THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED."

It's speculative bullshit that to me is insensitive and tactless in a thread which has appeared to me was made to talk about the tragedy and maybe offer some updates on the investigation, not get sidetracked by the tangent conversation of gun control.  As I previously mentioned, if someone wanted to make a separate thread about gun control and even reference this event along with others to make their point then I wouldn't have a problem with it.  But I guess I fundamentally disagree with certain members and even some of my fellow mods when I say that I don't believe this is the right thread to talk about everyone's personal views on guns.



> But hey! we _know_ people _could_ do these crazy massacres with cricket bats and fuse bombs as well so it is irrelevant to discuss guns. Not to mention disrespectful to the 'kids'!



In this specific case it's pointless to discuss the issue of guns because A) throwing more guns into the scenario turns this thing into a shootout where more people could be injured and B) if no guns were present this guy apparently had the drive, know-how, and resources to make a bomb from scratch, as well as having access to at the very least manufactured tear gas.  On the scale of things I'm personally interested to know about, which will be revealed through the investigation, what drove this guy to this point where he was apparently ready to wage war is tad bit higher than the ever so poignant insight on gun control from Joe Blogger or Susie Facebook.



Gryphoneer said:


> Fixed that for you.



Again, I find that humor is a way some people deal with grief. 

Personally, I detest 9/11 jokes because I have personal connections to that event and could actually see the smoke rising from the fallen towers even where I live on the Jersey Shore.  But I'm not going to tell someone they can't make those jokes because yeah, some people use that as a coping mechanism and the old saying that "Time + Tragedy = Comedy."  Look how well Seth MacFarlane has done bringing up 9/11 every so often on Family Guy.

So I stand by my "too soon" part of the quote and wouldn't replace it with "decency" since most comedy is pretty fuckin indecent when you get down to it.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 22, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Again, I find that humor is a way some people deal with grief.
> 
> Personally, I detest 9/11 jokes because I have personal connections to that event and could actually see the smoke rising from the fallen towers even where I live on the Jersey Shore.  But I'm not going to tell someone they can't make those jokes because yeah, some people use that as a coping mechanism and the old saying that "Time + Tragedy = Comedy."  Look how well Seth MacFarlane has done bringing up 9/11 every so often on Family Guy.



I must say, Term, I am puzzled to why speculation of motive/prevention of such a tragedy upsets you more than distasteful jokes about real life suffering. Cuz Six's deleted spoiler comment was so well received...I must say, that I don't consider schandenfreude a healthy or appropriate defense mechanism to a mass murder of men, women, and children. I'd rather listen to bullshit arguments than a douche having a laugh at a person's suffering. Maybe that's the real tragedy of all of this. People just don't respect each other enough. Also, I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic about MacFarlane's 9/11 jokes. I've yet to see one that didn't make me cringe at how low that man will go for a cheap laugh esp. one that is the epitome of a 12 yr old making a "get back in the kitchen woman!" dud. 

I want you to understand I'm not looking for a forum rumble, I'm just curious about why you can accept offensive "jokes" as a defense mechanism and not see that for some, bitching about guns/college debt can an outlet of sorts as well.


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## Dokid (Jul 22, 2012)

I just found out that my cousin almost was in that same movie theater..but it sold out before he could brag tickets

anyways banning guns wouldn't of prevented this at all. For one he would of found the guns anyways.


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## meh_is_all (Jul 22, 2012)

This is just horrific, he just walked in and killed those innocent people, I heard one of them died on his birthday. ;(


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## meh_is_all (Jul 23, 2012)

Dokid said:


> I just found out that my cousin almost was in that same movie theater..but it sold out before he could brag tickets
> 
> anyways banning guns wouldn't of prevented this at all. For one he would of found the guns anyways.


Dang, what a close call.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 23, 2012)

Your cousin is lucky man *hugs*


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 23, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> I want you to understand I'm not looking for a forum rumble, I'm just curious about why you can accept offensive "jokes" as a defense mechanism and not see that for some, bitching about guns/college debt can an outlet of sorts as well.



Well I'm not Term, but I can see why someone would find one more distasteful than the other.

The gun debate is more agenda ridden and often used victims as the pedestal for the argument for/against guns. Most of those arguments take an extreme standpoint vs a moderate one. Jokes, even in poor taste don't have some particular agenda so much as it's a way for people to deal with tragedy or cope with it.


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## Dokid (Jul 23, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> Your cousin is lucky man *hugs*



He is. I'm happy that he didn't get caught up in that mess.

Also did you guys hear about the westboro church possibly picketing the funerals of the victims?


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## CannonFodder (Jul 23, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Also did you guys hear about the westboro church possibly picketing the funerals of the victims?


Huzzabawha?
Have they no decency?


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## Ad Hoc (Jul 23, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Huzzabawha?
> Have they no decency?


Of course not.

This is a bit of a new low, though.


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 23, 2012)

Let's please not get any churches/religion involved.


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 23, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well I'm not Term, but I can see why someone would find one more distasteful than the other.
> 
> The gun debate is more agenda ridden and often used victims as the pedestal for the argument for/against guns. Most of those arguments take an extreme standpoint vs a moderate one. Jokes, even in poor taste don't have some particular agenda so much as it's a way for people to deal with tragedy or cope with it.



I thank you for shedding some light onto to this matter, Arshes. I suppose its kinda've like choosing the lesser of two evils. 

I do hope this isn't too off topic: But I was on the facebook a minute ago, and saw a petition to have Christian Bale (in batsuit no less) visit the surviving children of this incident. Apparently, to show the kids that heroes exist as well as villians. I cannot imagine a greater farce. I'm thinking this incident is becoming a joke to more and more people, one I'm not laughing at.


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## Ad Hoc (Jul 23, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> I do hope this isn't too off topic: But I was on the facebook a minute ago, and saw a petition to have Christian Bale (in batsuit no less) visit the surviving children of this incident. Apparently, to show the kids that heroes exist as well as villians. I cannot imagine a greater farce. I'm thinking this incident is becoming a joke to more and more people, one I'm not laughing at.


Seems like a good way to potentially trigger some PTSD.


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## sunshyne (Jul 23, 2012)

d.batty said:


> Let's please not get any churches/religion involved.



Westboro Baptist is neither a church nor a religion, it is a disease. They deserve every ounce of vitriol that is heaped upon them, then more.


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## Aleu (Jul 23, 2012)

sunshyne said:


> Westboro Baptist is neither a church nor a religion, it is a disease. They deserve every ounce of vitriol that is heaped upon them, then more.



Unfortunately this is completely false. Whether you like it or not, Westboro Baptist Church *IS* a church of the Christian religion.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 23, 2012)

Sunshyne seems to be making a lot of dumb comments about obvious shit. Just sayin...kinda gettin annoying.


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## Rilvor (Jul 23, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> Sunshyne seems to be making a lot of dumb comments about obvious shit. Just sayin...kinda gettin annoying.



No offense, but this post is unfortunately ironic.


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## sunshyne (Jul 23, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> Sunshyne seems to be making a lot of dumb comments about obvious shit. Just sayin...kinda gettin annoying.



Yeah because if you compare my last ten posts to yours, you'll find tons more content and thought put into yours... I should aspire to make more one-sentence posts with lots of asterisks and emoticons.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 23, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> No offense, but this post is unfortunately ironic.



Duly noted and admitted.




sunshyne said:


> Yeah because if you compare my last ten posts to yours, you'll find tons more content and thought put into yours... I should aspire to make more one-sentence posts with lots of asterisks and emoticons.



I shouldnt have said anything. Forget it sorry. Im tired. Yes they are a disease. I just read your comment wrong


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 23, 2012)

Can't we all just be furiends?:v


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## Aetius (Jul 23, 2012)

d.batty said:


> Can't we all just be furiends?



This isnt sofurry (So we may not all be "friends"), but even then calling out another use is still a major no no in these lands. 

On topic, I am pretty damn curious to see how Holmes's court appearance will turn out to be.


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 23, 2012)

Aetius said:


> This isnt sofurry (So we may not all be "friends"), but even then calling out another use is still a major no no in these lands.
> 
> On topic, I am pretty damn curious to see how Holmes's court appearance will turn out to be.


Oops forgot the :v
What do you mean calling out another user? What did I do?


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## Rilvor (Jul 23, 2012)

Aetius said:


> On topic, I am pretty damn curious to see how Holmes's court appearance will turn out to be.



Hum, perhaps his inmates will help him prepare his getup for the morning by assisting him with a joker's grin hm?


[Not advocating violence folks, merely making a bit of humor]


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## zachhart12 (Jul 23, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> Hum, perhaps his inmates will help him prepare his getup for the morning by assisting him with a joker's grin hm?
> 
> 
> [Not advocating violence folks, merely making a bit of humor]



Then it'll take forever for him to be convicted, like drew peterson...5 years to start jury selection wtf. Slow. I know cases take time but damn.


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## Aetius (Jul 23, 2012)

d.batty said:


> What do you mean calling out another user? What did I do?



Not you, I was just referring to a previous post that someone else made. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 23, 2012)

Aetius said:


> Not you, I was just referring to a previous post that someone else made. Sorry for the confusion.


 Oh, my bad.  Just to be clear I was joking about the furiends thing.  Just being sarcastic.


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 23, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> I must say, Term, I am puzzled to why speculation of motive/prevention of such a tragedy upsets you more than distasteful jokes about real life suffering. Cuz Six's deleted spoiler comment was so well received...I must say, that I don't consider schandenfreude a healthy or appropriate defense mechanism to a mass murder of men, women, and children. I'd rather listen to bullshit arguments than a douche having a laugh at a person's suffering. Maybe that's the real tragedy of all of this. People just don't respect each other enough. Also, I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic about MacFarlane's 9/11 jokes. I've yet to see one that didn't make me cringe at how low that man will go for a cheap laugh esp. one that is the epitome of a 12 yr old making a "get back in the kitchen woman!" dud.
> 
> I want you to understand I'm not looking for a forum rumble, I'm just curious about why you can accept offensive "jokes" as a defense mechanism and not see that for some, bitching about guns/college debt can an outlet of sorts as well.



Arshes pretty much hit the nail on the head. I find the idea of someone with an agenda hijacking a thread about a tragedy to get up on their soap box and proclaim their stance on a particular issue, in this case gun control, is much more offensive to me than some random guy making a joke at the expense of this happening this soon. 

Its a choice between someone using a tragedy for personal gain in their personal politics and some tool of a kid who simply isn't funny.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 23, 2012)

Posting this one because it shows a virtual view of how he set up the bombs in his apartment. As you can see he had IEDs. http://news.yahoo.com/video/news-26...ped-apartment-rigged-to-explode-30064191.html

One of the things he did was rigged his apartment to play loud music while he was at the theater. The loud music of course would catch the attention/ire of people nearby. Had he not divulged the info, it's entirely possible someone may have opened the door to spring the bombs in his apartment.


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## KigRatel (Jul 23, 2012)

What the bloody hell happened to this thread!? How did it go from the Dark Knight shooting to Westboro-f**king-Baptist Church!? How'd you do it, FAF!? How'd you do it!!?


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## Judge Spear (Jul 23, 2012)

KigRatel said:


> What the bloody hell happened to this thread!? How did it go from the Dark Knight shooting to Westboro-f**king-Baptist Church!? How'd you do it, FAF!? How'd you do it!!?



It happens to a lot of things at the strangest times. I don't get it either. What I'm actually worried about, and my barometer is picking up a shitstorm, is a few people putting their personal limitations of humor as absolute fact. "Laugh at this, you're tasteless scum." I just can't stand that way of thinking. I can easily see why people would say this and I respect and have no problem with their comedic limitations, but not everyone is you (generally speaking).
 If people laugh at an actual tragic incident, like they see it on the news and choke on their bagel bites from laughter, that's evil. But laughing at a stupid joke? Gimme a break. :/


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## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2012)

KigRatel said:


> What the bloody hell happened to this thread!? How did it go from the Dark Knight shooting to Westboro-f**king-Baptist Church!? How'd you do it, FAF!? How'd you do it!!?



Every forum this discussion is on has deteriorated to people pushing political agendas around this empassioned point. Things that make people emotional and specifically which remind them of death expose the differences between groups of people and encourage charismatic outburts. 

Quoting from theramintrees' 'death', people from religious group x are asked of their views about the personalities of two identical students, one religion x and the other religion y. The reviews are identical. However if you remind the interviewees about death before asking them they give an unfairly negative assessment of student y. 
If you ask people their political opinions very few are charismatic, if you remind them of their death beforehand a significant portion exhibit charismatic views.


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## Lobar (Jul 23, 2012)

It's not just Westboro...


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## sunshyne (Jul 23, 2012)

KigRatel said:


> What the bloody hell happened to this thread!? How did it go from the Dark Knight shooting to Westboro-f**king-Baptist Church!? How'd you do it, FAF!? How'd you do it!!?



Because they talked about possibly picketing some of the funerals? They are literally one degree removed from the reason this thread was started; it's not like people are launching into unprompted political rants. Not sure why people are suddenly beligerent about that.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 23, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umffK0Wrwdk&feature=g-all-u

Not really info, but...he looks...scary here. Something is not right upstairs. :I


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## Ad Hoc (Jul 23, 2012)

Pachi-O said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umffK0Wrwdk&feature=g-all-u
> 
> Not really info, but...he looks...scary here. Something is not right upstairs. :I


He looks a bit the same way I do when I don't sleep for two days.

I'm guessing he hasn't gotten much in the way of a good night's rest since this happened.


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## Judge Spear (Jul 23, 2012)

lol Probably not. I don't think anyone involved has.
He looked at them like he was in utter disbelief as they were reading off his Mirandas. Some sort of deranged quizzical look...


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## Gryphoneer (Jul 23, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> -snip-


Fundamentally correct, but I must note the gun fetishists hijacked this thread and the other faction just reacted.



KigRatel said:


> How did it go from the Dark Knight shooting to Westboro-f**king-Baptist  Church!?


Simple, both are homicidal loons.


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 23, 2012)

KigRatel said:


> What the bloody hell happened to this thread!? How did it go from the Dark Knight shooting to Westboro-f**king-Baptist Church!? How'd you do it, FAF!? How'd you do it!!?



Wasn't FAF's doing.  The wingnuts came out in force to condemn the victims.  I don't have a clue why, but they did.


----------



## Fallowfox (Jul 23, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Wasn't FAF's doing.  The wingnuts came out in force to condemn the victims.  I don't have a clue why, but they did.



Attention.


----------



## Dokid (Jul 23, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> He looks a bit the same way I do when I don't sleep for two days.
> 
> I'm guessing he hasn't gotten much in the way of a good night's rest since this happened.



Well at least he's not enjoying his time after the mess he caused. Although like with any shooting if he did it for attention he sure is getting what he wants


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 23, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Fundamentally correct, but I must note the gun fetishists hijacked this thread and the other faction just reacted.



I can't say I sympathize with the excuse of "but they started it."

At the end of the day, the attention still ends up shifting from paying respects to the people lost and hurt in this event to a chest-beating competition. Maybe part of the problem is how everyone still overreacts and acts surprised when people start spewing nonsense and instead of not feeding the trolls they decide to engage them blindly to satisfy their own self-righteousness.




Ad Hoc said:


> He looks a bit the same way I do when I don't sleep for two days.
> 
> I'm guessing he hasn't gotten much in the way of a good night's rest since this happened.



From what I've heard they've kept him in what amounts to solitary confinement since they fear for his safety. Though I imagine he might not have accounted for what being stuck in jail waiting for his court appearances would be like. I agree with ya, it doesn't look like he's been using his time locked up to catch any sleep. 

Just out of curiosity though, as a stenographer, do you listen to court audio from time to time as part of class work?  I'd imagine most classes with any connection with law would be following the case closely much like the Sandusky trial.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jul 23, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> I can't say I sympathize with the excuse of "but they started it."


I couldn't care less about your sympathies or antipathies, but if someone makes the first step and abuses this kind of thread as a soapbox for his Very Important Opinions you can't expect the well-adjusted opposition to remain quiet and dispense the one or other reality check.

Besides, if you really don't want any of that you could, as soon as soapboxing crops up, simply ask a mod to admonish the user or delete the post in questioOH WAIT


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 23, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Besides, if you really don't want any of that you could, as soon as soapboxing crops up, simply ask a mod to admonish the user or delete the post in questioOH WAIT



If you're insinuating that I can at any time just change a thread to my liking then you clearly don't know what the concept of being a mod is. Aside from the fact that a fellow mod made this thread and a thread that was branched off of this one was closed on the basis that this thread exists, it's not my place to throw my mod weight around to steer the conversation to my personal liking, but reply to it as a member pointing out the absurdity of both sides of the impromptu debate that sprung up as well as the conspiracy nuts/would-be Sherlock Holmes who feel they can peg this guy's criminal profile. 

Know from which you speak before trying to be clever.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jul 23, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> -snip-


So, mods are now supposed to be helpless in face of derailing? Who has a vague understanding of the concept of mod remains to be seen here, it appears.

And what is it now? Tastelessness or absurdity? Because I can relate to the one, but not the other. Gun laws _are_ pertinent to this shooting, whether or not it's appropriate to discuss them right here is another thing entirely.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 23, 2012)

Ladies, Ladies! You're *both* pretty!


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 23, 2012)

^Level Up


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jul 23, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Just out of curiosity though, as a stenographer, do you listen to court audio from time to time as part of class work?  I'd imagine most classes with any connection with law would be following the case closely much like the Sandusky trial.


Most of our practice and testing material is dictation of court transcripts and other legal material, ranging from very recent to quite dated. I'm guessing we'll hear some dictation from this case as it goes on--if it makes for good practice/testing, it may be added to the dictation library long-term. 

We aren't regularly assigned to listen to court audio recordings  because it won't reliably be at the WPM we're trying to master. Once we get up to writing two-voice at 180 or so, though, we're supposed to go sit in a courtroom for a few weeks and write that instead of assigned materials. Supposedly it tends to give people a huge boost, but it's no good unless you're actually ready for it.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 23, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> So, mods are now supposed to be helpless in face of derailing?



Just going to reply to this Arshes and I'll be done. 

I don't jump into another mod's thread and dictate how it's supposed to be run, especially when said mod is my senior. If anyone's going to make a judgment call on derailing this specific thread, it's Arshes. If you want to reply to this go to PM since shes made her stance on this particular tangent clear.


----------



## NerdyMunk (Jul 23, 2012)

Am I the only one who thinks some people are taking this a bit too seriously?
I heard that this movie Gangster Squad is thinking of removing the scene (which they said is a _key scene)_ from its movie that involves the gangsters opening fire on a theater audience after they walk through the screen. Sure, it was a nice move to remove this trailer for Gangster Squad which includes a snippet of that scene that was attached to the DKR movie, but removing and reshooting a new scene therefore moving the release date back is a bit absurd to me.


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 23, 2012)

NerdyMunk said:


> Am I the only one who thinks some people are taking this a bit too seriously?
> I heard that this movie Gangster Squad is thinking of removing the scene (which they said is a _key scene)_ from it's movie that involves the gangsters opening fire on a theater audience after they walk through the screen. Sure, it was a nice move to remove this trailer for Gangster Squad which includes a snippet of that scene that was attached to the DKR movie, but removing and reshooting a new scene therefore moving the release date back is a bit absurd to me.



These incidents are taken way too seriously sometimes, yes 12 people were shot to death and that is horrible, but remaking a fucking movie scene? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it's so insensitive!


----------



## Neuron (Jul 23, 2012)

_Holy hell._

Did anyone else see his mugshot? 

That is one strung out motherfucker. 

I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything, but his behavior in the court room is a lot like when I see people who abuse opiates going through withdrawal and not even paying the slightest attention to anything.


----------



## Dokid (Jul 23, 2012)

Neuron said:


> _Holy hell._
> 
> Did anyone else see his mugshot?
> 
> ...



His right eye...looks as if it's about to pop or just laze way off. Although his hair is to say the lease.. Interesting


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 24, 2012)

The consequences of making inappropriate jokes


----------



## Judge Spear (Jul 24, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> The consequences of making inappropriate jokes



Place and time for everything. I'm not gonna get on people for their sense of humor because mine is pretty.....evil too. But, that's just something you should know better not to do. You SHOUT this? In a theater? Jackass. It's like if some asshat walked into an airport screaming "Airport food rocks! I could just EXPLODE!!!"


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 24, 2012)

Dokid said:


> His right eye...looks as if it's about to pop or just laze way off. Although his hair is to say the lease.. Interesting


That empty stare...


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 24, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> The consequences of making inappropriate jokes



That's goes well beyond a joke. That's just straight up knowingly inciting a public panic.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Jul 24, 2012)

More like sarcasm.

A really, really stupid use of sarcasm.


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 24, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> That's goes well beyond a joke. That's just straight up knowingly inciting a public panic.



That's also how irredeemably boneheaded idiots pull pranks.


----------



## BarlettaX (Jul 24, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> I just heard of this..What drives a man to do that?



It could be many things. Pent up aggression, insanity, etc.


On Topic: I discovered that my cousin narrowly avoided going to this showing of The Dark Knight Rises. Jesus, am I happy he is alright.


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 24, 2012)

BarlettaX said:


> It could be many things. Pent up aggression, insanity, etc.
> 
> 
> On Topic: I discovered that my cousin narrowly avoided going to this showing of The Dark Knight Rises. Jesus, am I happy he is alright.



You mean the one with the guy who yelled?  Or the shooting? I assume you mean the yelling one.


----------



## Neuron (Jul 24, 2012)

BarlettaX said:


> On Topic: I discovered that my cousin narrowly avoided going to this showing of The Dark Knight Rises. Jesus, am I happy he is alright.


It's really weird looking at that theater, I've had to drive by it a lot and I used to actually see movies there as a kid. That was the theater I went to when I saw the first Star Wars prequel and had food poisoning, man that sucked but I couldn't even imagine experiencing something like this.

These places you remember as a kid forever tainted by the blood of innocents...


----------



## Kahoku (Jul 24, 2012)

And bombs in the apartment, figures he was a "Neuroscience " PhD grad too.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 25, 2012)

Just got home from watching The Dark Knight Rises. It was very uncomfortable at first knowing ppl have died watching it, and then...a certain scene happened and let's just say I kinda think I have a hunch when that guy started his shootout. It gave that particular scene quite a bit more terror sadly.


----------



## Aleu (Jul 25, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> You mean the one with the guy who yelled?  Or the shooting? I assume you mean the yelling one.



Or you could check the context in what Barletta was responding to -_-


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 25, 2012)

Aleu said:


> Or you could check the context in what Barletta was responding to -_-



And where is said context regarding his cousin?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> And where is said context regarding his cousin?



You could stop being myopic and look that he quoted someone. If you want to know the context, you simply click on the double arrow next to the person's name in quotes. It brings you to the post. It's the fifth post in this damn thread.

So there's your context!


----------



## zachhart12 (Jul 25, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> You could stop being myopic and look that he quoted someone. If you want to know the context, you simply click on the double arrow next to the person's name in quotes. It brings you to the post. It's the fifth post in this damn thread.
> 
> So there's your context!



I know that already you derp.  I tried that with no luck.  No mention of barlettas cousin..so......It's also not the fifth post in this thread.  And hmmm...that's funny, the uh...double arrow for the context takes me to what is obviously "sarcastic coffeecups" fucking entry that has NOTHING TO DO WITH LETTAS COUSIN!!!!!! Sorry I'm pissed off, my tooth is killing me, stupid sensitivity from new crown.  Even going through Barlettas posts, there is NO MENTION of his cousin.  So I guess HE has to be the one to tell me which showing his cousin narrowly missed.


----------



## Mayfurr (Jul 26, 2012)

Meanwhile on topic:

Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings


> The number of people seeking to buy guns in Colorado has soared since last week's mass shooting in the US state's town of Aurora, say law officials.
> 
> In the three days after the shooting, applications for the background checks needed to buy a gun legally were up 43% on the previous week.



Fuckin' hell. So the response to a mass shooting is to buy MORE guns in a society already awash with the damn things?
As one local cartoonist put it, the US Second Amendment *should *read: _"The right of the people to bear arms, including high powered assault weapons capable of indiscriminate slaughter, shall not be infringed."_


----------



## Aetius (Jul 26, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> Fuckin' hell. So the response to a mass shooting is to buy MORE guns in a society already awash with the damn things?
> As one local cartoonist put it, the US Second Amendment *should *read: _"The right of the people to bear arms, including high powered assault weapons capable of indiscriminate slaughter, shall not be infringed."_



Some gun owners and enthusiasts got scared that gun control laws may surface because of this tragedy. So many are stocking up to high levels. 

Same thing happened when Obama was elected and people thought he was going to go after their guns.


----------



## Rilvor (Jul 26, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> Meanwhile on topic:
> 
> Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings
> 
> ...


I have nothing to add to the argument present in this thread, I merely wish to point out some numbers:

The article cites 2,887 people in a state with a population of over 5 million. Make of that what you will.


----------



## Mayfurr (Jul 26, 2012)

Aetius said:


> Some gun owners and enthusiasts got scared that gun control laws may surface because of this tragedy. So many are stocking up to high levels.
> 
> Same thing happened when Obama was elected and people thought he was going to go after their guns.



That rather suggests that guns are a _fetish_ with these people - I mean, how many guns does one _need_? Is it really the case that someone with a dozen guns already is thinking "_Bloody hell, I'd better stock up on a half-dozen *more *assault rifles just in case the law changes..._"? 

Sometimes I'm glad the entire Pacific Ocean is between me and these loons.


----------



## Rilvor (Jul 26, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> That rather suggests that guns are a _fetish_ with these people - I mean, how many guns does one _need_? Is it really the case that someone with a dozen guns already is thinking "_Bloody hell, I'd better stock up on a half-dozen *more *assault rifles just in case the law changes..._"?
> 
> Sometimes I'm glad the entire Pacific Ocean is between me and these loons.


That's an awful lot of hyperbole you've got going there.


----------



## Neuron (Jul 26, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> That rather suggests that guns are a _fetish_ with these people - I mean, how many guns does one _need_? Is it really the case that someone with a dozen guns already is thinking "_Bloody hell, I'd better stock up on a half-dozen *more *assault rifles just in case the law changes..._"?
> 
> Sometimes I'm glad the entire Pacific Ocean is between me and these loons.


As far as I can tell there seems to be a lot of people convinced that if the government says things like assault rifles should probably only be for military use, a slippery slope will ensue to outlawing every kind of gun. And there are also a buttload of people completely misunderstanding what the UN small arms treaty does and they think it's meant to confiscate the guns of every citizen in America.

In Colorado a lot of people are just all CONCEAL CARRY madness, as if they think shooting in a dark, foggy place when they have no experience in military and likely little to zero training on gun safety is a heroic fucking action. Let the madness die down a little bit though, most people are all talk and no balls really.

That being said, I'm all for guns being in the hands of citizens. Because there is proof in other nations that you can certainly do it right and people with a healthy mindset regarding firearms can be achieved in the countries of Finland and Switzerland.

 The reason why Finland and Switzerland have a population with a lot of guns and far less gun crime probably has a lot to do with the fact that most of the people over there have a level of basic training with these weapons. I see a culture over there that often treats these far more like a tool than something that's entitled to them and something to make a big deal about. From what I know, Finnish and Swiss also keep their guns far more securely in the house than most Americans as well. 

There are many contributing factors, but overall I would say it is the _education_ that although guns are allowed they come with a great deal of responsibility and security. Many people I know in the U.S. have this mentality absolutely, and it is unfair to them that there are others who might threaten to jeopardize them out of idiocy or craziness.

I've always been amazed at America's dick waving with the guns though, the northern Europeans surely have their fondness and culture with guns, but I could certainly understand why it is the way we tend to treat it worries foreigners.


----------



## cobalt-blue (Jul 26, 2012)

Mayfurr said:


> That rather suggests that guns are a _fetish_ with these people - I mean, how many guns does one _need_? Is it really the case that someone with a dozen guns already is thinking "_Bloody hell, I'd better stock up on a half-dozen *more *assault rifles just in case the law changes..._"?
> 
> Sometimes I'm glad the entire Pacific Ocean is between me and these loons.




Ya have to have a gun for every day. I mean if you are going to carry your FAL, you can't carry a Glock it has to be a wheel gun or a Browning Hi-Power.;=)


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 26, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> I know that already you derp.  I tried that with no luck.  No mention of barlettas cousin..so......It's also not the fifth post in this thread.  And hmmm...that's funny, the uh...double arrow for the context takes me to what is obviously "sarcastic coffeecups" fucking entry that has NOTHING TO DO WITH LETTAS COUSIN!!!!!! Sorry I'm pissed off, my tooth is killing me, stupid sensitivity from new crown.  Even going through Barlettas posts, there is NO MENTION of his cousin.  So I guess HE has to be the one to tell me which showing his cousin narrowly missed.



He said it was ON TOPIC/ANOTHER NOTE. Reading comprehension FAIL. And take a time out for the insult. 

I like the people assuming that because some people bought more guns, like every fucking American owns them. Considering the population, no. How often it happens is still low compared to general population. So yeah bunch of hyperbole from people playing back seat Betty. 

On another note they found the notebook in a mail room. I'm not sure why people are upset that it was sitting there - this does happen at big places where a lot of mail come in and if it's not marked urgent or important. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/..._n_1702216.html?utm_hp_ref=college&ir=College

Then we have the lawsuits :/ http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/Handel2.html?article=10295103


----------



## Lobar (Jul 26, 2012)

There's probably easy money in stockpiling weapons when Republicans are in power and selling them whenever a Democrat wins a presidential election.



zachhart12 said:


> words



There's even just the obvious context of "I'm glad he's alright", clearly suggesting his cousin narrowly avoided actual physical danger (read: the shooter) as opposed to an ass with a phone.


----------



## Aetius (Jul 26, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Then we have the lawsuits :/ http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/Handel2.html?article=10295103



I can completely understand having a suit against the Holmes, maybe the theater if that is pushing it.

But why in the hell is he suing Warner Brothers studios? At this point it seems like that lawsuit is nothing more than a grab for free money.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 26, 2012)

Aetius said:


> I can completely understand having a suit against the Holmes, maybe the theater if that is pushing it.
> 
> But why in the hell is he suing Warner Brothers studios? At this point it seems like that lawsuit is nothing more than a grab for free money.



Because it's easier to sue people with the deep pockets. Obviously it would be successful against Holmes but the Theater and WB have more money to grab from.

Oh also, since I remember this one being reported.
http://www.newser.com/story/150800/theater-employee-wears-mask-to-dark-knight.html

Does anyone have pics? He could very well be cosplaying as Bane and ignorant theater goers thinking he had a gas mask?


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 26, 2012)

Aetius said:


> I can completely understand having a suit against the Holmes, maybe the theater if that is pushing it.
> 
> But why in the hell is he suing Warner Brothers studios? At this point it seems like that lawsuit is nothing more than a grab for free money.



Can't really blame them for grabbing at cash when they have hospital bills to pay and funerals to plan. And since Holmes isn't exactly rolling deep in cash, they have to go after the biggest related entity to get money. Good news is that at least three of the hospitals in the area are waiving co-pays for those who have insurance while others are placin a cap or waiving fees all together. Also victims can apply for victim relief. 

In other news, according to the New York Daily News, Holmes is claiming he has amnesia and doesn't remember how he ended up in prison or that he's killed anyone.  Link to the story will be edited in later, but you can search the newspaper's site yourself as well.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 26, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Can't really blame them for grabbing at cash when they have hospital bills to pay and funerals to plan. And since Holmes isn't exactly rolling deep in cash, they have to go after the biggest related entity to get money. Good news is that at least three of the hospitals in the area are waiving co-pays for those who have insurance while others are placin a cap or waiving fees all together. Also victims can apply for victim relief.



Yea but the guy I linked to wasn't even injured. That's kinda messed up.  It's like suing Caltrans because you were traumatized by an accident you saw happen nearby.



> In other news, according to the New York Daily News, Holmes is claiming he has amnesia and doesn't remember how he ended up in prison or that he's killed anyone.  Link to the story will be edited in later, but you can search the newspaper's site yourself as well.



I'll take "Shit that probably won't fly in court" for 1000, Alex


----------



## Aetius (Jul 26, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Oh also, since I remember this one being reported.
> http://www.newser.com/story/150800/theater-employee-wears-mask-to-dark-knight.html
> 
> Does anyone have pics? He could very well be cosplaying as Bane and ignorant theater goers thinking he had a gas mask?



Possibly someone who was messing around and didn't know the massacre took place. 
I find it a bit odd that the school teacher would be so offended over something like that. Specially as it took place only mere hours after the tragedy, and not all news comes to people within a fast time period.

Couldn't find pics of it though.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 26, 2012)

Aetius said:


> Possibly someone who was messing around and didn't know the massacre took place.
> I find it a bit odd that the school teacher would be so offended over something like that. Specially as it took place only mere hours after the tragedy, and not all news comes to people within a fast time period.
> 
> Couldn't find pics of it though.



Yeah I kinda thought it was weird because of the timing. I just couldn't exactly buy it that it's coming out now when the article was stating that the incident happened only a few hours. Maybe another money grab to claim the theater was insensitive?


----------



## Aetius (Jul 26, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yeah I kinda thought it was weird because of the timing. I just couldn't exactly buy it that it's coming out now when the article was stating that the incident happened only a few hours. Maybe another money grab to claim the theater was insensitive?



I would be guessing the same thing, that or just some claim for attention.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jul 26, 2012)

Decided just to make a new post for this.

Holmes now claiming amnesia.


----------



## Vega (Jul 27, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> Decided just to make a new post for this.
> 
> Holmes now claiming amnesia.



Pardon my french but what a load a bullshit, does that creep honestly think people are THAT stupid and will just let him go free?


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 27, 2012)

Vega said:


> Pardon my french but what a load a bullshit, does that creep honestly think people are THAT stupid and will just let him go free?



Depends on how able he thinks he is to convince just twelve.


----------



## BarlettaX (Jul 27, 2012)

Vega said:


> Pardon my french but what a load a bullshit, does that creep honestly think people are THAT stupid and will just let him go free?



Idk, a man with those charges would claim a lot to save his ass, IMO.


----------



## Butters Shikkon (Jul 27, 2012)

I often find myself intrigued in the psychology behind such terrible crimes, but I cannot possibly fathom Holmes's motive behind this. He is quite disturbed (but clearly had the sense of mind to plan all this out) yet he gave himself up as soon as the cops showed up according to the media. He must not have had a deathwish as he could have simply shot himself and appear a martyr to future/hidden ppl of his mindset, and most people with an agenda wouldn't want to rot away as it would tarnish his image as a righteous renegade. 

He's now claiming amnesia to escape the death penalty it appears. I very much doubt (like the majority of ppl) that he will dodge that but juries are always unpredictable...I suppose more will be revealed with time as the investigation is finished and the trial is over. A massacre such as this is always tragic and perhaps a window into his thought process will help prevent such tragedies in the future.


----------



## Elim Garak (Jul 27, 2012)

First of all, I heard it is illegal to carry guns into a theater there, not sure if true. 
Also for the people who think they could have stopped this fuck. 
First of all, he used a form of tear gas, and he was wearing a gas mask, so he is at an advantage there. If people start shooting someone who is untrained will follow their fleeing nature and if they are untrained they are panicking and don't really know where all the bullets are coming from. If you are shooting someone is more likely to be hit in their panic state and you can't blame em because they are following their instict in panic. Also people can get hurt by bullets bouncing of metal.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 27, 2012)

Hey guys, knock it off with the gun control already.


----------



## cobalt-blue (Jul 27, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> I often find myself intrigued in the psychology behind such terrible crimes, but I cannot possibly fathom Holmes's motive behind this. He is quite disturbed (but clearly had the sense of mind to plan all this out) yet he gave himself up as soon as the cops showed up according to the media. He must not have had a deathwish as he could have simply shot himself and appear a martyr to future/hidden ppl of his mindset, and most people with an agenda wouldn't want to rot away as it would tarnish his image as a righteous renegade.
> 
> He's now claiming amnesia to escape the death penalty it appears. I very much doubt (like the majority of ppl) that he will dodge that but juries are always unpredictable...I suppose more will be revealed with time as the investigation is finished and the trial is over. A massacre such as this is always tragic and perhaps a window into his thought process will help prevent such tragedies in the future.





ArielMT said:


> Depends on how able he thinks he is to convince just twelve.



If he is insane or at least can convince the court's psychologists he will never go to trial as long they continue to believe he is incapable of knowing right from wrong.


----------



## ArielMT (Jul 27, 2012)

cobalt-blue said:


> If he is insane or at least can convince the court's psychologists he will never go to trial as long they continue to believe he is incapable of knowing right from wrong.



That's a tough sell given his background.  He's well educated, he apparently never got in trouble with the law before this tragedy, and he put an extraordinary amount of premeditation into his crimes.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Jul 27, 2012)

Yeah I think the big problem is all the planning and the book he sent to the university talking about how he wants to kill people. That's a pretty long time for "amnesia" It's not like the mom who drowned her kids in the tub. I can actually see a moment of insanity and killing all of them by drowning.

Holmes on the other hand, has been planning this for quite a while. It wasn't some spur of the moment thing.

If it hasn't been mentioned before at least one "positive" is that the Hospitals are wiping out the debt of the victims that were harmed during the shooting.

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/Handel2.html?article=10301417


----------



## cobalt-blue (Jul 27, 2012)

I remember reading a article many years ago about a person that jumped off one of the major bridges to "commit suicide" and lived.  The relevant part of the article was this person stated it started out as a small desire to jump off the bridge that slowly grew to consume all his waking moments till he actually did it.  The interesting thing was his statement that he had no desire to suicide and currently had no desire to try to jump again.  He also could not really identify where the desire to jump came from.

Is it possible that some minds have no defense to this type of thing?  That after the fact they return to normal?


----------



## cobalt-blue (Jul 27, 2012)

To further elaborate a "virus" of the mind.  Like a virus of the body it comes along and injects it payload into the mind as a small thought that most people tend to find and go "Naaa we ain't going there" and the thought dies.  Possibly some people don't have that defense or as in the youth it has not developed fully.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jul 27, 2012)

Some versions of meme theory postulate something like this.

That said, it's all just hypothetical at the moment and a lot of breakthroughs in both psychology and neurology have to occur first before we can say for sure.


----------



## Neuron (Jul 27, 2012)

If the amnesia defense even works, the best he can hope for is a life of abuse in a state mental hospital.

I do think it may be bullshit, but it seems clear that people who have been to school with him said it was really grad school where he cut everyone off and seemed to just go insane. Lots of people who knew him before are finding it quite unbelievable, and while everyone is freaking out about the package as proof he was premeditating murder, it seems more like a warning to me. Something is not right. I do not think we should allow someone who has committed a heinous crime to go free, but I think that you people need to not jump to assumption, this guy has something clearly wrong with him, whether or not the amnesia part is made up. He's not going to go free if he's labeled mentally ill, he just won't get the death penalty.

There is no excuse for this crime, but if he is mentally ill then that should be treated, should it not?


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## Draco Fire (Jul 27, 2012)

What really annoyed me is when people were like, "Omg he's faking mental illness" when he had his head bobbing up and down in the hearing. Cause he is a neuroscientist, he would fake better than that. 2. That's not what mental illness looks like, that's drugged. I think either a psychiatrist gave him medication for public safety at the hearing and cannot tell due to confidentiality rules. Or he was forcibly drugged before coming in for safety reasons. OR he's faking drugged. I have not read all the posts yet I just needed to rant about this, and that. I think he was going for suicide by cop, because due to all of the rigs in his room I don't think he had any intention of going back there.


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## sunshyne (Jul 27, 2012)

Draco Fire said:


> What really annoyed me is when people were like, "Omg he's faking mental illness" when he had his head bobbing up and down in the hearing. Cause he is a neuroscientist, he would fake better than that. 2. That's not what mental illness looks like, that's drugged. I think either a psychiatrist gave him medication for public safety at the hearing and cannot tell due to confidentiality rules. Or he was forcibly drugged before coming in for safety reasons. OR he's faking drugged. I have not read all the posts yet I just needed to rant about this, and that. I think he was going for suicide by cop, because due to all of the rigs in his room I don't think he had any intention of going back there.



Yeah, he ABSOLUTELY looked sedated at the hearing. I'm surprised more people haven't caught on to that.


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 27, 2012)

That or maybe he hadn't slept in days.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 27, 2012)

d.batty said:


> That or maybe he hadn't slept in days.



I can imagine him not getting much sleep considering one of the victims that died was only 6 years old.


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## Batty Krueger (Jul 27, 2012)

Yeah it's a fuckin shame.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 27, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I can imagine him not getting much sleep considering one of the victims that died was only 6 years old.



Why do you think he cares at all that one of his victims was 6 years old?


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 27, 2012)

If he feels remorse, that certainly would change his sentencing I would imagine. 

@Colbalt: Oh, you're right. I forgot about the court doctors and such. It was the case for Ed Gein anyway.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 27, 2012)

zachhart12 said:


> Why do you think he cares at all that one of his victims was 6 years old?



It's not about him. It's about those who are on watch in his vicinity while he's incarcerated.


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## cobalt-blue (Jul 27, 2012)

Since I live in the area the news is filled with all the latest.  I see the chief of police pushing the angle of all the preparation that went into it (as in how incompetent can he be).  The defense is going to have a hard time with the physical side as they have all the weapons, fingerprints and the paper trail etc.  The only option will be the insanity plea.  So you can figure the defense, prosecution and the court will have their psychologists interview him.  He will probably never be free again.


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## zachhart12 (Jul 27, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> It's not about him. It's about those who are on watch in his vicinity while he's incarcerated.



I suppose


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Jul 27, 2012)

cobalt-blue said:


> If he is insane or at least can convince the court's psychologists he will never go to trial as long they continue to believe he is incapable of knowing right from wrong.


 Yes yes, we all know how *superior *the insane are to the rest of us, and thus entitled to special snowflake consideration. They're just po' widdle victims, after all :V


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## Elim Garak (Jul 27, 2012)

He's on Suicide watch, they wake him up and check his shit a lot.


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