# Sonic the Hedgehog 4



## Lucedo (Oct 2, 2010)

Since Sonic 4 Episode 1 is coming out On the week of October 10, lets start discussing about this game.

Link to the Mad Gear Zone trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5VuHDXc8zI

I realized that the one good reason for the sonic hate is that some of the recent games have elements that dishonored the franchise. Sonic is about speed and this game has it in episodic form. Sonic Colors also showed that speed can be used in different ways via wisps.


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## Jude (Oct 2, 2010)

I was excited for this once, but dude...

FUCK the homing attack.


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## AshleyAshes (Oct 2, 2010)

He runs right, he grabs rings, he jumps on bad guys, he goes fast.  That's all I want.  Will buy it first day it's on XBLA.


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## razorthroat13 (Oct 2, 2010)

Yeah this looks pretty promising.
Finally after the abundance of pure fail consisting of sonic heroes, sonic the hedgehog next gen, and sonic unleashed, something actually decent arises. 

It's about fucking time but a little too late since years ago I ditched sonic for Ratchet and Clank.
I'll still give it a try though.


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## south syde dobe (Oct 2, 2010)

I miss the old school sonic


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## razorthroat13 (Oct 2, 2010)

south syde dobe said:


> I miss the old school sonic


 
Sorry dude he's been dead for a while now


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## The DK (Oct 2, 2010)

south syde dobe said:


> I miss the old school sonic



yes. and sonic 3d blast was the start of the end in good sonic games


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## Kajet (Oct 2, 2010)

The DK said:


> yes. and sonic 3d blast was the start of the end in good sonic games


 
More like the start of all the SUCK in sonic games...


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## Jude (Oct 2, 2010)

I liked the old sonic games (1-Knuckles) and the Adventure series. Most people hated Sonic Heroes, but I thought it was pretty fun.

I hate everything else, though. And I hate the fact that they have to introduce a new character to every damn game.


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## The DK (Oct 2, 2010)

DrumFur said:


> And I hate the fact that they have to introduce a new character to every damn game.


 
yes, why the original three works the best and thats all anyone cares about ... also tails love right here


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## LLiz (Oct 3, 2010)

Its funny how things work out, I looked at the post time of this video and at roughly the same time I was downloading some high quality DIVX trailers for this game. 

On the initial announcement of this game I was initially I was happy to see that they finally made a more traditional style Sonic game again, but I wasn't overly excited. 

After watching the 2 trailers that I downloaded I have to say that now I am pretty excited for this game, looks like they've taken some of the classic elements from the original 2 games and modernised them without breaking them, I hope I don't end up dissapointed.


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## Eerie Silverfox (Oct 3, 2010)

I would have liked it to have multiple playable characters :/


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## Cam (Oct 3, 2010)

Fuck this wii shit

I still play my genesis.... and it still continues to kick nintendo's ass


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## Kajet (Oct 3, 2010)

I hope it keeps the one button gameplay from the genesis games, fuck all the bullshit they packed into the GBA games.


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## yiffytimesnews (Oct 6, 2010)

I got Sonic Advance 2 GBA recently and I agree it sucks


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## Riptor (Oct 7, 2010)

I've got to say, I'm one of the very, very few people who will put up  with half the shit Sega pulls. I also have to say that there was a very  short period of time when I thought Sega would manage to get this right.  That was a mistake.

Everything in Sonic 4 is pretty much absolutely the wrong way to make a  classic-styled Sonic game. The physics are completely wrong, because  they slapped in the 'BOOSTBOOSTBOOST' Sonic Rush engine, only they took  out the actual boost button. Then they covered that up by slapping speed  boosters everywhere, because if they didn't, you'd get to see Sonic  stand vertically on sheer walls and somehow _slow down_ whenever he  rolls down hills. Plus there's the matter of uncurling, where rolling up slopes will cause Sonic to pull himself out of ball form, leaving himself vulnerable unless you straight into a homing attack.

Speaking of which! The homing attack made sense in the 3D Sonic games, where it was harder to judge where exactly you were in relation to your enemies, so it helped to make things a little less frustrating. In 2D, though, there's absolutely no point for it. It pretty much only serves to make the younger fans happy because obviously the game would be so very difficult without it. I've heard a lot of people say you don't actually need it, either, although it turns out they're actually wrong. From the videos I've seen, there's quiet a few spots where not HAing up staircases of enemies correctly will drop you directly to the lowest path or into a pit.

Plus, there's just the general feeling all over the game that it was generally dashed out the door (yeah, I know they delayed it to work on it, but still) to throw a bone over to the classic fans. Everything about the game just feels so lazy. The zones are basically levels from Sonic 1 & 2 only painted over slightly, and the music sounds like a dying cat is being used for the main instrument.

You know, I loved Sonic Advance,  it basically _was_ Sonic 4 before that was actually announced.  I've got to ask, what exactly is stopping them from using Adv1's engine? The physics were pretty spot on, and it couldn't be that hard to take the source from it.

I don't know, maybe by the time the console versions come out, they'll have done something to magically fix all the issues it has. But I doubt that. And maybe they'll actually figure out how to make it decent by the time Episode 2 rolls around, but to be honest, I think something that could somehow stand up to Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K would be pretty much impossible these days, unless you somehow managed to gather up everybody involved in the making of Sonic 3, which would probably be about as hard as gathering up the Beatles again.


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## ConkerTheSquirrel (Oct 10, 2010)

Sonic The Hedgehog 4 is really good guys, I bought it on the Ipod touch day one, the only problem I have is the touch screen and tilt controls for the special stage zones, other then that it will play smoothly on the next gen consoles, can't wait for it to release this Wednesday on XBLA.


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## LLiz (Oct 13, 2010)

Oh? So its' out now on PSN?


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## AshleyAshes (Oct 13, 2010)

I'm enjoying it honestly.  Nice fun simple platforming with shiney modern graphics.  Worth $15 if you ask me.


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## Runefox (Oct 13, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> *Nice fun simple platforming with shiney modern graphics.*


 
Uh. If you can call _that_ shiny and modern, I think it's pretty safe to say you need to bring your PC into this millennium. Also, yes, I'm aware that super-realism isn't the be-all-end-all, but hey, if you're making a 2D game? Go with high-resolution sprites. But that would be the less lazy way of doing things.

Anywho, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-1cGzPn3E


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## Stargazer Bleu (Oct 13, 2010)

I seen it came out today.

How is it compared to sonic 1~3?

Edit:  I should just try the demo forgot about that  ><;


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## Vo (Oct 13, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Uh. If you can call _that_ shiny and modern, I think it's pretty safe to say you need to bring your PC into this millennium. Also, yes, I'm aware that super-realism isn't the be-all-end-all, but hey, if you're making a 2D game? Go with high-resolution sprites. But that would be the less lazy way of doing things.
> 
> Anywho, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-1cGzPn3E


 
Wow. Thanks for posting that. I was a bit excited about this, but, as I should have expected, the developers have failed to be as true to the originals as claimed. It's clear that anyone who actually plays this personally and says it's a good recreation didn't play or doesn't remember Sonic 1-3+Knuckles at all. I'll just go back to my Genesis now.

Also, got to put in a word for Sonic Pinball. Shit was cash~


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## AshleyAshes (Oct 13, 2010)

I really don't see the big deal.  So he doesn't keep momentum when you let go of the directional pad?  It makes it easier to make the platforms rather than miss something and go 'Oh shit!' as you scream past it while wanting to stop.  Oh noooo, some minor details were changed in the FIFTEEN YEARS since the last game.  More over, these physics changes are largely the same ones used in the popular 'Sonic Advance' games, which were Genesis style 2D games on the GBA.  The game was also made by DIMPs with some overview from Sonic Team.  The Sonic Advance games were actually well reviewed and popular.

Most of the bitching I've seen about Sonic 4 has been fanboy nitpicking.  The point of a Sonic game is to run fast, feel fast, smash some baddies and get distracted on the pinball levels only to realize that you're almost at 10mins now.  If you think that playing a Sonic game is about 'OMG PHYSICS MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE 1995', well, sucks to be you.  Because I get to have fun with the game and you don't.


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## Atona (Oct 13, 2010)

It's still missing something. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it simply doesn't have the charm that the classic ones they're trying to emulate did. And it's not nostalgia, either.

I mean, go back and look at Chemical Plant Zone from Sonic 2. It kicks the living shit outta what you see in that video that OP posted. Music, style, color. There's just something holding it back from being as iconic and exciting as it once was. 

Seeing the stuff from the old games is inspiring. It feels like they put a lot of thought into the stylized world they were building around sonic. But now, it just seems like "okay we got a machine world, now how about a water world? Desert world, hillsy green fields, etc etc."


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## Riptor (Oct 14, 2010)

AshleyAshes said:


> So he doesn't keep momentum when you let go of the directional pad? It makes it easier to make the platforms rather than miss something and go 'Oh shit!' as you scream past it while wanting to stop.



It's not just that, it's the fact that among other things, including rolling, you know, the entire concept Sonic was founded on in the first place, doesn't WORK. Here's something you can try. Play Sonic 2. Find a U-shaped half-pipe, probably in Casino Night. Roll up and down it, watch the way you gather speed. Try it in Sonic 4. _It doesn't work._ And if missing platforms is really that big of a problem, maybe the fault is with the guy who made the levels.



> Oh noooo, some minor details were changed in the FIFTEEN YEARS since the last game.



There's a difference between things I admit are stupid to complain about, like eye color, and basic gameplay concepts that were founded before the character of Sonic was even created.



> More over, these physics changes are largely the same ones used in the popular 'Sonic Advance' games, which were Genesis style 2D games on the GBA.



Sonic Advance 1, sure, that was a great game and they could have easily used the code from that. Sonic Advance 2 and 3 were basically hold-right boost fests full of death pits. To be fair, the level design in Sonic 4 is a BIG step up from those.



> The game was also made by DIMPs with some overview from Sonic Team.  The Sonic Advance games were actually well reviewed and popular.



Maybe among professional reviewers, but nobody with any sense ever listens to them. IGN, ignorant, that kind of thing.



> Most of the bitching I've seen about Sonic 4 has been fanboy nitpicking.



I don't think my idea of nitpicking and your idea of it are matching up.



> If you think that playing a Sonic game is about 'OMG PHYSICS MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE 1995', well, sucks to be you.



More like 2001, actually.



> Because I get to have fun with the game and you don't.


 
No problem, you're free to enjoy the game. Just don't go out of your way to defend it if somebody else doesn't. It's not fair to just pretend there's absolutely no problems with the game at all.


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## LLiz (Oct 14, 2010)

I like the artwork. 
I mostly like the level design. 
The Sonic sprite reminds me of "Sonic Chaos" on the Game Gear / Master System. 
Nice idea to add a lock-on attack. 
I was happy to see some things return from the old games. 

Unfortunately I've decided that I am disappointed in this game for the reasons below. 

1) The main thing that ruins it for me is the controls and the way that Sonic moves. Controlling him just doesn't feel like I am controlling Sonic, it seems way too stiff and rigid. 

For example, when Sonic is standing still I press a direction on the D-Pad and first of all he accelerates WAY too slowly, in the older games he moved much quicker. Then if I let go of the D-Pad before he's running at full speed he stops abruptly instead of coming to a gradual stop. 

Also, controlling him (left / right) while in mid jump he is WAY too unresponsive

What made controlling Sonic in the old games so great is that it was so fluid, and despite Sonic himself having far less friction in the older game, I found that I had MUCH more control of him. 

Then, at some points, I am moving at a slow speed and attack an enemy or boss and when Sonic bounces he literally flies off to the other side of the screen. It's just stupid. 

2) The music is ghastly, the Mega Drive (Genesis) games had much better music than this. 

3) I think that they went a little overboard on the nostalgia from Sonic 1 and Sonic 2. As much as I enjoyed the graphics in the new game, most of the levels felt like remakes of Sonic 1 and 2 levels, its fantastic to see classic old things in there, but sometimes I just felt like I was playing graphically superior remakes of Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 levels. 

*Below is a possible spoiler, please hover over it if you wish to read it, otherwise please ignore it: *


Spoiler



4) Every Robotnick boss in the game is basically a remake, yeah they do some new stuff, but there doesn't seem to be anything original in there. When I got to the final level in space I can't believe that the best that they could muster up was just a series of rematches against all of the previous bosses I'd already fought but with extra difficulty, and then a remake of the final Sonic 2 boss... where's the freakin originality guys? You're marketing this as a new Sonic game, it'd be nice to have some original bosses for crying out loud!

Yeah the repeated some 'classic' bosses in previous Sonic games, but only like 1 or 2 bosses, and they were usually mini-bosses. At least 9 out of 10 bosses were still original.





AshleyAshes said:


> I really don't see the big deal.  So he doesn't keep momentum when you let go of the directional pad?  It makes it easier to make the platforms rather than miss something and go 'Oh shit!' as you scream past it while wanting to stop.  Oh noooo, some minor details were changed in the FIFTEEN YEARS since the last game.  More over, these physics changes are largely the same ones used in the popular 'Sonic Advance' games, which were Genesis style 2D games on the GBA.  The game was also made by DIMPs with some overview from Sonic Team.  The Sonic Advance games were actually well reviewed and popular.
> 
> Most of the bitching I've seen about Sonic 4 has been fanboy nitpicking.  The point of a Sonic game is to run fast, feel fast, smash some baddies and get distracted on the pinball levels only to realize that you're almost at 10mins now.  If you think that playing a Sonic game is about 'OMG PHYSICS MUST BE EXACTLY LIKE 1995', well, sucks to be you.  Because I get to have fun with the game and you don't.


 
I couldn't possibly disagree more with your comment. 

Sega intentionally marketed this game to long time Sonic fans as a return to form, claiming they'd listened to fans and were returning back to the classic style. 

Also, the game is littered with classic Sonic nostalgia (probably way too much), they even recreated classic loading screens, etc. 

Its obvious this game is being pushed toward Sonic fans, therefore the fans have every right to complain if Sega do a bad job at it.

I don't want you to not enjoy the game, but perhaps try some of the original games and see how they feel compared to this version and then make up your mind?


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## AshleyAshes (Oct 14, 2010)

LLiz said:


> I don't want you to not enjoy the game, but perhaps try some of the original games and see how they feel compared to this version and then make up your mind?


 
*holds up Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection for Xbox 360* Already have. It has all the classic sonic games, though sadly it does't lock Sonic onto Knuckles even though it has both games. Yet the XBLA versions of Sonic 3 and Knuckles will lockon if you buy both.


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## Superscooter143 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm pretty sure there is this video on YouTube of this guy who took Sonic The Hedgehog (first game)'s gameplay and rendered it into a cool CGI video with a lot of nice looking special effects, backgrounds and volumetric lighting. It might look AWESOMELY cool, but I'm pretty sure even a console could handle something that looked like that.

While Sonic 4 looks like a crap-tacular flash game.


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## AshleyAshes (Oct 14, 2010)

*throws the controller across the room* Gaaaah... The final fight on Egg Station Zone is fucking IMPOSSIBLE.  They ramp the difficulty insanely compared to every other stage.  Even the four repeat fights that preceed it I can blast through without dieing but this shit... God damn.  I looked on YouTube, some dude with ninja skills even needs like 5mins for this one fight.  Not a single check point IN the fight.  It's not fair. D:


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## Riptor (Oct 24, 2010)

So, hey, I know this topic is a little old, but I found something kind of relevant, and I figured that it would be a better idea to mention it in this topic instead of making a new one.

There's this demo for a fangame out now called Sonic Fan Remix, which as far as I know is going to be a remake of Sonic 1-3, POSSIBLY with some new levels, although I could be wrong on that. Personally, I think this kicks the crap out of Sonic 4, but that's just me. Some people think the visual detail on this gets pretty distracting, and they're not really wrong. But this is just the first demo, so hopefully they'll work on that as work gets further.

The link is here. Or you can watch a video on it.


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## LLiz (Oct 25, 2010)

Oh my god! That Sonic Fan Remix is pure art! 
It is literally EVERYTHING that Sonic 4 should have been. 

It feels like a Sonic game and looks EXTREMELY slick, beats Sonic 4 in about every way.


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## Maraxk Montale (Oct 25, 2010)

This game bores me for some reason, I mean I loved playing the old Sonic games and enjoyed them throughly. But, theres something about this game thats just, boring.

Sonic don't move like he used to in those games, he's clunky and hard to get to move, and some how without a lot of momentum will run right up the side of a wall in which in the old games would leave you succumbing to gravity and falling back down.

Not to mention the road blocks where you have to jump from a plethora of moving platforms or end up plumeting to your death. I realise they had them in the old games but these were just rediculous. I played to the second act of the second level and just said FUCK IT. Theres nothing really new and all the controls piss me off for some reason.


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## Imperial Impact (May 21, 2011)

So Faf, Would you say this is an appropriate summary of Sonic 4?

"If you look at it as a purely separate title and ignore the fact it has "4" in its name when it's actually a quasi-remake anthology game, I'll give you that its quality can be subjective.

However, if you look at it as the great return to the roots of the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise, a true-to-history revival of the original Sonic 1-3 plot using the authentic 16-bit physics engine--what it was supposed to be--it is objectively abysmal. It literally fails in every advertised way."


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