# Comments Suggestion



## Mottenfest (Feb 20, 2007)

I've noticed FA has a feature that allows you to delete comments (currently disabled). This is good, but if it is a harassing comment you only have two choices, delete it and not be able to report it, or leave it there where others can view it until time allows staff to view it. 
In steps DeviantArt, I know many dislike it, but bear with me. The have a feature that allows you to hide comments. This works for both you and the admins because if you choose to report it, it will be there as evidence only the admins and you can view. If you choose not to report it, you can simply hide the comment and move on. :3
Might this be something I can look forward to on FA?

I'm not sure if you can view it, but here's my page so maybe you can see what I mean. ^^


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## Alchera (Feb 20, 2007)

We do need something like that. I don't think its really proper to not let users manage comments in their own gallery. We can manage shouts, but not comments? That makes little sense to me.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 20, 2007)

usually we can, but at this time the removale system for comments on submissions is disabled.


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## Hanazawa (Feb 20, 2007)

You do know how the DA comment-hiding system is abused by art thieves and general whiners, right?


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## yak (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm confused....  AFAIK FA never had a comment removal on submissions for regular users...


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## uncia2000 (Feb 20, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> I'm confused....  AFAIK FA never had a comment removal on submissions for regular users...



As also noted in Kaput's journal, a week or two back; http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/82160/
(+ touches on previously-discussed _possible_ "solutions" to various "issues")

d.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 20, 2007)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> You do know how the DA comment-hiding system is abused by art thieves and general whiners, right?



Yes, but that won't save them from moderators should they be thieves. Moderators on DA can still view the comments.


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## WoulfeLoung (Feb 21, 2007)

I really do think we need something like that, to hide/delete/report all at once. That would make things a lot easier, especially if there were a bunch of non-furres who only created accounts to mock/badger artists and such.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 21, 2007)

WoulfeLoung said:
			
		

> I really do think we need something like that, to hide/delete/report all at once. That would make things a lot easier, especially if there were a bunch of non-furres who only created accounts to mock/badger artists and such.



I know furries that troll people too, what the hell does being a furry or non furry have to do with anything?


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## nobuyuki (Feb 21, 2007)

this issue has always drove me nuts, because I hardly find the use of trying to hide any comment on the part of the user that isn't specifically breaking the rules.  This is not live journal -- the works you submit are always public and everyone not explicitly banned from the site has a right to see them.  Artists often say "if you don't like it, don't look at it", which is a good warning if only to hint to most people not to comment their distaste for a drawing based on their personal preferences because the artist doesn't want to hear it (although it's a crappy warning when taken at face value cause by the time you read that in the description, you've already looked at it).  The part where it annoys me is that an artist has the right to not want to hear a comment lobbed in their direction that they don't agree with, but then taken a step further, for users to delete or hide comments says that the commenter doesn't have the same right the artist has to make such a comment.  If you don't want to hear it, fine -- but if you don't want it to exist, tough shit, welcome to the real world.  Some people have criticisms, and if they're valid criticisms you're just living in a world of denial, especially if the prospect of other people seeing such criticisms and possibly acknowledging them scares you.

I hope no one thinks I'm targeting them directly when I say this, but this is something I believe in general, that normal users aren't qualified to determine what constitutes a "valid" criticism and cannot be trusted with giving the power to moderate themselves if everyone has the "absolute" power of shutting another person up. (IE, no peer reviewed approval.)  This is why I think the current system of flagging an admin is why it is.  No, the admins aren't perfect either (and in the past some of the bad ones who aren't with us anymore had been subject to the same neuroses associated with users not fit for self-moderation) -- but darn it, they're doing a better job than they have at any other time in the history of this site.  

We must hold any potential moderating action to a high standard of fairness, as high as we possibly can.  My standards for things like that, as you can see, are quite high.  I'm really outspoken when it comes to criticizing administrators here and god forbid that any joe or mary would start to be given the same powers and responsibilities they've been given and just say "okay, you're on the honor system".


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 21, 2007)

There is a way to make it work without allowing users to hide comments based solely on preference. Add a report tag to comments, with an accompanying report reason, and once a comment is reported it becomes invisible. That would discourage further discussion based on it and flag it for administrative action at the same time.

That would also discourage abuse of the system, since it would be caught fairly quickly.


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## nobuyuki (Feb 21, 2007)

I disagree with that, too, because even if it works as planned, in particularly messy situations some users with complete disregard for anyone but themselves will demand the attention of the entire administrative staff by "over-flagging" everything and trying to wear them down into simply ignoring that person's abuse of the system.  If a site were to introduce measures against this, then that would leave the user open (after said abuses) to the person they were censoring taking reprimands to "get back" at them without punishment cause the original abuser can no longer make reports.  More and more people get dragged into the mess and in the end the mods are left trying to handle some huge stupid mess brought along by two parties they could give a crap about just cause of a system originally intended to DECREASE their work load.


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 21, 2007)

Good point.


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## yak (Feb 21, 2007)

Furthermore i'd like to point out that FA uses nested comments, so, in order to 'hide' any particular comment, all of that comment's children would also have to be hidden, otherwise they will be taken way out of context, and will break the identation.

IMO, sometimes the inability to ignore can be just as bas as the harassment itself.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 21, 2007)

nobuyuki said:
			
		

> ...something I believe in general, that normal users aren't qualified to determine what constitutes a "valid" criticism and cannot be trusted with giving the power to moderate themselves....



I was thinking more like harassing comments, like "lol h8t u durr" not critiques. I still think it is a persons right which comments they should have to display on their artwork.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 21, 2007)

yak said:
			
		

> Furthermore i'd like to point out that FA uses nested comments, so, in order to 'hide' any particular comment, all of that comment's children would also have to be hidden, otherwise they will be taken way out of context, and will break the identation.
> 
> IMO, sometimes the inability to ignore can be just as bas as the harassment itself.



An artist shouldn't HAVE to ignore harassment. I'm not looking for a perfect world, just an art site I can feel comfortable posting on.
I know you guys are doing what you can, it was just a suggestion.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 21, 2007)

Umm you can ignore it and quietly report it to an admin. I'm sorry to say but since when was posting a problem, many artists still post despite the drama. They've been posting so I don't get it. You'll feel the same level of discomfort if no one responded either. No comments, nothing.


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## ArrowTibbs (Feb 22, 2007)

I think hiding would present a benefit more to prevent others from jumping in and causing a big dramafest. Like...

Artist posts a picture.
Person A posts a derogitory remark, no critique or anything.
Artist replies with a "whatever" type comment.
Person B defends artist.
Person C seconds the motion.
Person A snarks back.
Person D starts cussing A out.
Person B cusses more.
Person A devours them with sarcasm.
Person C goes to cry :'(.
Artist comes back and is confused as all hell as to how this happened.
Person E comforts the artist by bashing Person A.

Or whatever.


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## Bokracroc (Feb 22, 2007)

It sounds like we need an Anti-Drama bot more than anything esle.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 22, 2007)

Exactly, because as i stated from the beginning, if you hide it, the admins and you will be the only ones to see it, and then they can act/delete/whatever without others jumping in.

Also, "if everyone has the "absolute" power of shutting another person up."
We DO have that power. We can block people. 
However I don't block randomly, I get the harassing comments, then block, but I am still "shutting them up". :/


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## Xax (Feb 22, 2007)

Blocking is the prohibitation of potential content, deletion is removal of already existant content.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 22, 2007)

Mottenfest said:
			
		

> Exactly, because as i stated from the beginning, if you hide it, the admins and you will be the only ones to see it, and then they can act/delete/whatever without others jumping in.



Not always, if the thread is already continuing before you were even able to block the first comment, you run right into what yak was discussing.


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## Xax (Feb 22, 2007)

Y'know, there are a lot of reasons to debate the merits & flaws of user-allowed comment deletion/hiding, but 'threading cohesion' is not one of them. A simple fix would be to replace the comment with a simple "this comment has been deleted/hidden" template.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 22, 2007)

Xax said:
			
		

> Y'know, there are a lot of reasons to debate the merits & flaws of user-allowed comment deletion/hiding, but 'threading cohesion' is not one of them. A simple fix would be to replace the comment with a simple "this comment has been deleted/hidden" template.



Well yes and no. It may not be the cohesion on a technical level, just on a viewer's level. Is it ok to hide a comment of "heya f'face" but because your friend comes in with a witty reply ("stfu c'face") equally bad to allow that to be shown? It may cause less reporting to go on, but if all's fair both are against the TOS, it's just Artist A wants to get behind Artist B because someone said something they didn't like on their page. It doesn't make it right either. So there is some validity to threading cohesion.

Make it simpler, you've mentioned before how aggravating it is to read a thread on the forums that gets split off, or a post gets removed or closed.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 22, 2007)

In response to Xax, Blocking prevents someone from talking, "hence shutting them up". Preventing it could mean blocking people who might not even harass you. Deleting a harassing comment means that they HAVE harassed you. It would be foolish to block someone you think MIGHT harass you without proof. And if I'm correct you can block someone after they have made an exsisting comment.

As for Arshes comment "Is it ok to hide a comment of "heya f'face" but because your friend comes in with a witty reply ("stfu c'face") equally bad to allow that to be shown?" I'm fairly certain that would result in the other person getting warned/banned to. IMHO if you're out to prevent harassment/Drama you'll hide the resulting comments also.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 22, 2007)

You should, but it doesn't happen that way. Since hiding comments in the owner's mind means that's the end of it and the second part of reporting it doesn't happen. Seen it all too often now that DA's comment hiding system is in effect.


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## Xax (Feb 22, 2007)

Arshes: I _do_ think comment hiding is a stupid idea, for the reasons you mentioned and more, but I was just pointing out that there aren't any _technical_ hurdles in implementing it. ...Well. I'm sure we all remember what happened in old-fa when the admins started deleting newspost comments all around. But that was just bad coding.

Mottenfest: The idea here is that there should be a fossil record for all comments, be they insulting or complementary. I personally think the blocking system is stupid, but I can see wy people use it, and I'm okay with because it's not retroactive. Deleting or hiding comments could create gaps in the fossil record, which is bad-- you wouldn't be able to tell if a user had been, say, hiding all comments giving artistic advice, or all comments from anyone not in a personal circle of friends, or other kinds of abuse like that.

On a totally unrelated note, oh my god is it weird to go from writing XHTML to having to deal with the stupid bbcode. I wanna <q> things.


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## Mottenfest (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm not sure how hiding a comment from the public prevents an admin from keeping a "fossil" record. Besides, at this time admins delete harassing comments. At least if they are hidden there is still a record of them.

I'm not sure my point is made clear. 
Here's is an example of a comment WORTHY of hiding: "I can't help but have a gigantic lolgasms when boneheads such as yourself who have little to zero artistic ability and photoshop skillz attempt art."
I'm not talking about hiding critiques or the like, I'm talking STRICTLY harassment.


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## nobuyuki (Feb 22, 2007)

and why was it again that strictly harassment should be user-hidden before an admin's descision to do so?


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## Mottenfest (Feb 22, 2007)

The main focus is to help lower drama, if the comments are hidden only the admins will see them, but it will take time for them to get to each case.


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