# I want a Wii...



## Infinity (Sep 6, 2006)

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=9048
*Drools*
The Wii knows how to work a crowd.

Discuss console fanboys and fangirls!


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## Hyenaworks (Sep 6, 2006)

Want Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy XIII, and Metal Gear Solid 3.

Survey says... PS3.


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## Bokracroc (Sep 6, 2006)

Hyenaworks said:
			
		

> Want Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy XIII, and Metal Gear Solid 3.
> 
> Survey says... PS3.


:roll:
Got originality?
Atleast the Wii is trying something different.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 6, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

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I don't really see it as doing something different.  More or less, they are just trying to copy the same concept they used when it came to the DS.  Trying to use an alternate control system to be different.

Doesn't mean that I don't like it, but that's just how I see it.  And it's originality in games we should be looking for not in the consoles themselves.  Even with a console that has as much fun potential as the Wii, it could still churn out mundane crap that wouldn't be worth buying.

The hardware is an enabler.  The more you give devs the power to work with, the better it is for the games.  This is where the PS3 seems to have the edge.  With all that horsepower and with the powerful and versatile Cell CPU, it gives developers alot more freedom to do what they want.  (Not to mention giving them 25GBs of space to put it on if they want.)

How it stands right now, I'm gonna sit back and probably wait a year to see how all three consoles stack up.  The Wii has a ton of potential, but there are some gameplay videos and demo videos that are absolutely horrid (in terms of graphics, controls, sensitivity, etc.), so I want to see how that pans out before I decided to plunk down 200+ for one.  As for the PS3, I'm pretty confident it will do well despite the high price tag, though how well is the question.  Microsoft and the Xbox 360 is gaining steam and could take off with this whole 'race'.


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## Bokracroc (Sep 6, 2006)

Sony is pumping out whats already been done two times already. I'm not saying the PS3 will be a POS but more than likey most of the games will be the same stuff we've already seen on their other two consoles. The 360 is doing this too but that is their second shot at it while this is Sony's third and a half (All the PSP did was make PS2 portable. Nothing new) They aren't helping Third parties developer either.

Nintendo get Kudos from me by *trying* something out of the box. Even if they fail (which they've done before. Virtual Boy anyone?) they get praise from me.
Console gaming has become stale. All they are doing is chasing each others tail.


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## angieness (Sep 6, 2006)

I want a Wii, not only do the games look great but I won't have to fork over $600 for one. I'll get a PS3 *eventually* but not until I can get it for under $300


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## Wolfie (Sep 6, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> The hardware is an enabler.  The more you give devs the power to work with, the better it is for the games.  This is where the PS3 seems to have the edge.  With all that horsepower and with the powerful and versatile Cell CPU, it gives developers alot more freedom to do what they want.  (Not to mention giving them 25GBs of space to put it on if they want.)



It doesn't really matter how much horsepower the system has if development cost and complicated system architecture are getting in the way.

Third parties are being turned off left and right from the PS3 because it costs too damn much to develop for.  And from what I've read, the system's architecture is also a bit complicated to develop on as well.

Wii also has the advantage in that Nintendo can do much more with less power.  The DS has proven this many times over.  It absolutely owns the PSP in terms of game library and userbase.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 6, 2006)

*RE:     I want a Wii...*



			
				Wolfie said:
			
		

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On the contrary, the PS3 is actually alot easier to program on than the PS2, and the PS2 was the standard this last gen.

All I am saying is that with better hardware, more things become accessible.  It does all boil down to the developers using it though in the end.

And about the PSP and DS, the DS has the bigger userbase but according to IGN the PSP has more titles rated 8 and above than the DS does.


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## tundra_arctic_wolf (Sep 6, 2006)

I would definately by the Nintendo Wii.  I happen to be a fan of Nintendo, and I think that company rocks.

Oh, the PS3 will not make its debut in Europe until March 2007.


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## Wolfie (Sep 6, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> On the contrary, the PS3 is actually alot easier to program on than the PS2, and the PS2 was the standard this last gen.
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> All I am saying is that with better hardware, more things become accessible.  It does all boil down to the developers using it though in the end.
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> And about the PSP and DS, the DS has the bigger userbase but according to IGN the PSP has more titles rated 8 and above than the DS does.



Yes but developing on the Wii is essentially the same as developing with the Gamecube architecture, thus developers can just dive right in without having to start over from square one.  And power doesn't mean anything in the end, it all depends on the talent and dedication of the developers themselves.

And again, development cost is the major issue.  Since the PS3 is so expensive to develop for, third parties will be less inclined to try anything innovative or new.  They'd all have to rely on sure-fire hits, like sequels to currently popular games.  The PS3 will suffer from almost nonexistant original titles or genres.

Oh and in regards to the IGN thing...it's IGN.  Their reviews aren't the most reliable in the world. :wink:


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 6, 2006)

*RE:       I want a Wii...*



			
				Wolfie said:
			
		

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Power can mean alot in the end.  Power doesn't just = graphics.  Power = A.I., physics, environment interaction, etc.  No matter how talented or dedicated of a developer you are, you can only do what the hardware allows you to.

For example, because of the DS' tiny 128mb cartridge size, it's up to the developers to balances the variables (length, complexity, extras, graphics, A.I., cutscenes, UI) to get the best of what they can..  If the hardware allowed for more space, they could do more with it.  That's not to say that the games are bad without the stuff they had to omit because of *hardware restrictions*, but it could be alot better with them.  The DS isn't doing "more with less power", it's just working with what it has to still make fun titles.  Something that the PSP developers took a long time to get used to.

The PS3 has made things easy for developers as far as creation goes.  The only big hurdle is the development costs.  But if they can get beyond that, they have the most powerful hardware on the market and a medium that allows for more content than anything we've previously seen.

And with developers like Clover Studios, Capcom, Square Enix, Konami, and Insomniac we can rest assured that they are gonna work hard to make the best out of all that is provided for them (if their current gen work is any indication of things to come).

Btw, I only used IGN because they make it easy to compare it.  I don't like them either.  But irregardless, it is a statistic.


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## InvaderPichu (Sep 6, 2006)

I want a Wii and a PS3.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 6, 2006)

*RE:  I want a Wii...*



			
				InvaderPichu said:
			
		

> I want a Wii and a PS3.



So do I, if they both do well.


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## Wolfie (Sep 6, 2006)

Actually the DS is "doing more with less power", because restrictions FORCE the developers to be more creative.  The games are more fun because the developers are concentrating less on graphics and more on  inventive new gameplay.  Restrictions can be a good thing in a sense.  Most of the PSP titles tend to concentrate more on showing off the graphical aspects of the games rather than unique new gameplay.

This is how Okami became what it is today.  Originally it was being developed as a realistic 'wolf sim' game and had a very bland look to it because Clover was going for photorealism.  But the PS2 couldn't handle the level of graphics that they were going for, so they took an alternate route and made it very stylistic and fantastical.

And besides, most of that power isn't going to be used anyhow because it would push production costs to unbelievable levels if a developer was to take full advantage of it.  I'm afraid the PS3 library is going to be mostly sequel based because of the fact that developers won't be able to shell out that kind of money for a risky new franchise or genre.



			
				silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Btw, I only used IGN because they make it easy to compare it.  I don't like them either.  But irregardless, it is a statistic.



And sales numbers are also a statistic as well. Taking into account how phenomenal the DS is doing is a mighty big clue that people are getting more for less. :wink:


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## thelonelydragon (Sep 6, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

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Ditto. But I'll have to wait a while before I get the PS3 due to the $price$.


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## Raving_Dragon (Sep 6, 2006)

yes the Wii will be awesome. The PS3 will also be awesome...just a more expensive awesome. Pre-ording both next week.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 6, 2006)

Wolfie said:
			
		

> Actually the DS is "doing more with less power", because restrictions FORCE the developers to be more creative.  The games are more fun because the developers are concentrating less on graphics and more on  inventive new gameplay.  Restrictions can be a good thing in a sense.  Most of the PSP titles tend to concentrate more on showing off the graphical aspects of the games rather than unique new gameplay.
> 
> This is how Okami became what it is today.  Originally it was being developed as a realistic 'wolf sim' game and had a very bland look to it because Clover was going for photorealism.  But the PS2 couldn't handle the level of graphics that they were going for, so they took an alternate route and made it very stylistic and fantastical.
> 
> And besides, most of that power isn't going to be used anyhow because it would push production costs to unbelievable levels if a developer was to take full advantage of it.  I'm afraid the PS3 library is going to be mostly sequel based because of the fact that developers won't be able to shell out that kind of money for a risky new franchise or genre.



I still disagree.  The DS is doing things 'different with less power'.  Yes they are being more innovative and different, but that's not doing more.

And Konami is already trying to take maximum use of the hardware offered in the PS3.  Using advanced physics (similar to how they incorporated the melting ice cubes in MGS2) and there is also a rumour that it is using one entire SPE of the Cell CPU for audio processing.

If developers find out that making games that utilize the console's full capabilities creates higher game sales, more are gonna be willing to spend on the high development costs to make their game as good as it can get.

Looking back at the DS, most of its big name titles are sequels or part of existing Nintendo's existing franchises.  Even though Nintendo is getting more third-party support than they had in the Gamecube days, their own titles are reaching the top positions.  NSMB is still one of the top selling games and it's just another Super Mario game.  A fun one, but still just a continuation of a series.  What's not to say that the Wii will follow this trend?

No one said that sequels are bad.  Sequels can bring with them lots of unique gameplay, packaged in a realm or world that gamers are familiar with.  We've seen it in series like Final Fantasy and Zelda.  While the PS3 will probably have alot of franchise games on it, who says that these games won't take advantage of the motion feature of the PS3 controller or that they will be graphically enhanced clones of their last-gen selves?

Last I checked, Insomniac was going all out with a new title.  Resistance: Fall of Man, is a completely new IP from the boys in charge of Ratchet and Clank.  And when we look to the PSP we see games like HOTPXL, WTF!, and LocoRoco (all unique IPs).  LocoRoco also succeeds in showing off unique gameplay and amazing vector graphics.  What's not to say that the PS3 won't follow this trend?  Also, what about games like Afrika which previewed at E3?  Last I checked, that was a unique IP too.  Or "Project Big" (title in development) by Naughty Dog that previewed there too?  Another unique IP.

Once again, it is all up to the developers to do what they want to do.  If I were them, I know I would work my ass off and commit as much as I could to making my game work and be successful.



			
				Wolfie said:
			
		

> And sales numbers are also a statistic as well. Taking into account how phenomenal the DS is doing is a mighty big clue that people are getting more for less. :wink:



Sales numbers are a little harder to compare since you have to divide by the user base of the handheld.  Obviously since the DS has a bigger userbase, it would sell more titles to its own audience than the PSP would to its smaller userbase.


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## Wyrwulf (Sep 7, 2006)

I think a Wii will probably be the first of the next generation consoles I actually buy. I've always been a Nintendo nerd (I have a Virtual Boy!) and i don't expect that to change anytime soon. I owned a GameCube before I owned a PS2 if you can believe that.

But there's no way I can afford a PS3 right out the gate. I fully intend to get one eventually, but probably not before the next Kingdom Hearts game comes out. I have all 3 current/previous generation consoles and eventually I'll replicate that pattern in the whateveritisnow-bit era.


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## Suule (Sep 7, 2006)

Wolfie said:
			
		

> Wii also has the advantage in that Nintendo can do much more with less power.  The DS has proven this many times over.  It absolutely owns the PSP in terms of game library and userbase.



I have to agree with this... PSP games were... standard. Too standard for my taste, but duh... how can you do something new with an analong controller? They say the touchscreen is a useless gimmick... somehow 1/2 of the DS games use it. They say that double screens are bad. Well, try to simulate a fighter HUD on a widescreen. I almost laughed at WC PSP's streched cockpit. 

Nintendo knows what it's doing. I'll be waiting for a Wiii here.



> For example, because of the DS' tiny 128mb cartridge size, it's up to the developers to balances the variables (length, complexity, extras, graphics, A.I., cutscenes, UI) to get the best of what they can..  If the hardware allowed for more space, they could do more with it.  That's not to say that the games are bad without the stuff they had to omit because of hardware restrictions, but it could be alot better with them.  The DS isn't doing "more with less power", it's just working with what it has to still make fun titles.  Something that the PSP developers took a long time to get used to.



Belive me... carts are a better media to work on. Everything is accessible through memory addresses. On PSP games you need to load data into memory when you want to use it, flush it when you stopped using it, and then load another bit, FMV can be played on the run, but game isn't all about FMVs. 

Cutscenes doesn't have to be pre-generated. You can render them in real time (which is a better option sometimes), as for the lenght and complexity - belive me. The space on the cart has nothing to do with it. Try playing Wizardry 7 for PC (DOS version). The game could fit on 2 disks, but it had length and complexity that most modern RPGs don't have.

As for AI: Optimization... you can write 30 MB of inefficent AI code or 2 MB of very smart one. Again: Size doesn't matter in programming, but the efficiency and algorithms. 

My experience with DOS games and Shareware games has taught me that you can make an excellent games with hours of digitilzed speech, FMV and other eyecandy.


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## Wolfie (Sep 7, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> If developers find out that making games that utilize the console's full capabilities creates higher game sales, more are gonna be willing to spend on the high development costs to make their game as good as it can get.
> 
> Once again, it is all up to the developers to do what they want to do.  If I were them, I know I would work my ass off and commit as much as I could to making my game work and be successful.



But the high development costs present MUCH higher risks, and developers will be less willing to take those risks. They won't be as willing to innovate as often.  Just because the developers have more power to work with doesn't mean that they can AFFORD to use that power to it's full advantage.  They'll be cutting corners like crazy to save on cost. New and fresh developers who are just getting started won't really have an opportunity to utilize much of that power at all due to cost. 

The high development costs make it so only the big guns and long established developers can develop on the system, with no real way for smaller developers with moderate budgets to step into the ring.  And even the bigger companies will still be a little skittish about putting so much cost into a new risky franchise, especially with another option available that not only allows them to make competetive games for cheaper, but has the tantalising prospect of completely new and original gameplay mechanics.

The Wii's low development costs will allow for smaller and newer developers with fresh ideas to jump in and for the bigger companies who want to try new ideas be able to without taking such a huge financial risk.  Not to mention the Wii's virtual console and even XBOX Live Arcade for the 360, which will also allow alot of innovation without huge financial risk. while at the same time having a more than decent amount of power to work with.




			
				silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Sales numbers are a little harder to compare since you have to divide by the user base of the handheld.  Obviously since the DS has a bigger userbase, it would sell more titles to its own audience than the PSP would to its smaller userbase.



Um, the fact that the DS has such a significantly larger userbase kinda backs up what I'm saying. Yeah, we can't compare direct sales figures because the DS and its games are so astronomically outselling the PSP.

lol I hadn't thought about it but when you simplify things to the basics, almost everything that can be said about the PS3 and the Wii can also be said about the PSP and the DS. 

PSP/PS3 unarguably have higher graphical capabilites and raw hardware power than DS/Wii. Developers are capable of doing a great deal more with the hardware of PSP/PS3, but the lower development cost of DS/Wii, combined with the countless possibilities for completely new and original gameplay mechanics, AND the fact that less energy goes into simply having flashy graphics and the focus is more on the gameplay itself, will steer developers and consumers towards the Wii over the PS3, just as has been the case with the DS over the PSP.

The DS vs the PSP is, I think, a very clear indication of exactly how the relationship will be between Wii and PS3. In a direct comparison, PSP has all the advantages over DS that the PS3 has over the Wii. The DS likewise has all the same "handicaps" and unique possibilites that the Wii has compared to the PS3.

The DS is thoroughly stomping the PSP, and I think the Wii will have a similiar advantage over the PS3.


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## Bokracroc (Sep 7, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> The PS3 has made things easy for developers as far as creation goes.  The only big hurdle is the development costs.  But if they can get beyond that, they have the most powerful hardware on the market and a medium that allows for more content than anything we've previously seen.


And then they won't have enough time and money for the important part of the game.
Fun.

Look at me! I look photorealistic, I have super smart A.I. that duck and roll and everything. I have true-to-life physics. I have eye-candy. I have boring level design. I have lame weapons. I have no plot. I cost $100+ due to the expensive devlopment costs.

Processing Power means _nothing_!
I still play Nethack. It's lasted ages and you can still play it again and each time there will be something different to learn.


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## Suule (Sep 7, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

> I still play Nethack. It's lasted ages and you can still play it again and each time there will be something different to learn.



ADOM is better


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 7, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

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Yes, because all great looking games have poor level design, lame weapons, photo-realistic graphics, no plot, and terrible story.

Just because the capabilities exist for photorealism, doesn't mean that it is the |337 of graphics.  Look at Spore, it uses stylized graphics, but guess what?  It's also supposedly a beast to run.

Hrmm...  It also features an advanced type of AI... Hrmm...



			
				Wolfie said:
			
		

> The DS vs the PSP is, I think, a very clear indication of exactly how the relationship will be between Wii and PS3. In a direct comparison, PSP has all the advantages over DS that the PS3 has over the Wii. The DS likewise has all the same "handicaps" and unique possibilites that the Wii has compared to the PS3.
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> The DS is thoroughly stomping the PSP, and I think the Wii will have a similiar advantage over the PS3.



Though handhelds is a completely different ballpark.  Nintendo has been the reigning king there since the Gameboy.

When it comes to consoles, Playstation is the king and that does make a big difference.  Most often, leaders stay leaders.



			
				Suule said:
			
		

> My experience with DOS games and Shareware games has taught me that you can make an excellent games with hours of digitilzed speech, FMV and other eyecandy.



But they would look alot better and possibly be more fun to play with more eyecandy.  Wizardry 7 is a great example of this.  Yes it was a huge game, but it was also very miniscule in the ways of graphics.  That was a compromise, which is what I'm talking about.



			
				Suule said:
			
		

> Belive me... carts are a better media to work on. Everything is accessible through memory addresses. On PSP games you need to load data into memory when you want to use it, flush it when you stopped using it, and then load another bit, FMV can be played on the run, but game isn't all about FMVs.



I agree with cartridges being a better media, but that doesn't mean that 128MB is the best size for a game.

I would always argue that solid state memory is better, especially in the form of a handheld since playing it also wouldn't require moving parts and excess laser diodes and all that junk.

I still think that 1.8GB is still a more effective size for games though.


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## Suule (Sep 7, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

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Well back in it's days (1991!) the graphics were suprisingly good. I'm talking about that. Right now the game is pretty much a novelty, but it still stands as "The most complex RPG game ever made"



			
				silverwolfe said:
			
		

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Yeah it's true. I'm always more comfortable with a limit of at least 1 GB of game data. But then again... remember the price of 1 GB flash mem + the price of development of the game can exceed the 'right price' price range. It's a fair compromise since it's been known from the start that NDS would try to be 'N64-like.' 

128MB is the same size as N64's cart and we all know that even with that size limit, games like Conker could be made.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 7, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> Well back in it's days (1991!) the graphics were suprisingly good. I'm talking about that. Right now the game is pretty much a novelty, but it still stands as "The most complex RPG game ever made"



Now, what was the standard size for games back in 1991?



			
				Suule said:
			
		

> Yeah it's true. I'm always more comfortable with a limit of at least 1 GB of game data. But then again... remember the price of 1 GB flash mem + the price of development of the game can exceed the 'right price' price range. It's a fair compromise since it's been known from the start that NDS would try to be 'N64-like.'
> 
> 128MB is the same size as N64's cart and we all know that even with that size limit, games like Conker could be made.



I know that they were gonna go for the N64-ish thing from the get go, but that doesn't negate the fact that they could've done something bigger/better.  

As for the flash memory prices, I agree, which is why the PSP used UMDs instead of flash based cartridges.  To put a game like Daxter on a flash cartridge would be incredibly expensive when you factor in development costs and the price of the medium.  In a few years though, this might not be the case with flash prices dropping dramatically.  When the PSP came out a 1GB memory stick was around $100.  Now the same stick can be found for less than $30, with 2GB sticks hovering at around $50-$60.  If flash prices continue this decline than we can probably see next-gen handhelds using flash cartridges with these higher capacities.


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## RokKaiser (Sep 7, 2006)

Im thinkin i need to get a Wii as well... Nintendo has always made the best party games.  ^_^


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## Suule (Sep 7, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Now, what was the standard size for games back in 1991?



Okay, I made a big boo-boo  - I checked the release date for Wizardry 7 and it said April 1992 instead of 1992)

AFAIR it was around 4 HD 3.5" disks for 'Top-of-the-line games' (DreamWeb had 6 3.5" HD disks, SOMI had 4 3.5" HD, Indiana Jones IV had 5 3.5" HD, WC2 had 8 5.25" HD, Privateer had 6 3.5" HD, Sam & Max had 6 3.5" HDD), I remember that people in 1992 whined a lot when the game had more than 5 HDs and took more than 6 MB on the HDD.

*Edit: *So I considered back then that anything under 3 HDs was a waste of time.



			
				silverwolfe said:
			
		

> I know that they were gonna go for the N64-ish thing from the get go, but that doesn't negate the fact that they could've done something bigger/better.
> 
> As for the flash memory prices, I agree, which is why the PSP used UMDs instead of flash based cartridges.  To put a game like Daxter on a flash cartridge would be incredibly expensive when you factor in development costs and the price of the medium.  In a few years though, this might not be the case with flash prices dropping dramatically.  When the PSP came out a 1GB memory stick was around $100.  Now the same stick can be found for less than $30, with 2GB sticks hovering at around $50-$60.  If flash prices continue this decline than we can probably see next-gen handhelds using flash cartridges with these higher capacities.



Remember that N64 began with 32Mbit carts, procceeded with 64Mbit and in the end they had 128Mbit ones. I heard a 256Mbit will soon be in use, so we may see a 512Mbit one in the end.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 7, 2006)

I don't know what the maximum size it supports though...  No one has tried to test that out have they?

It is easy to make restrictions using software.


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## Suule (Sep 8, 2006)

I belive the only restriction is the addressing range.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 8, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> I belive the only restriction is the addressing range.



Someone needs to make a homebrew DS cart supporting 512MB and see if the DS supports it.


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## Bokracroc (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Yes, because all great looking games have poor level design, lame weapons, photo-realistic graphics, no plot, and terrible graphics.


I never said anything about terrible graphics. You don't need awesome graphics to make a great game. *You* should know that.
All the PS3 is doing is pimping "Lolz, we have teh 0rsm grahpics and procesing power"
Graphics only add the Wow! factor. Once the Wow! factor wears off (which normally doesn't last too long) you'll start to see what the game is about. From what I see from the PS3 without the Wow! factor is games we have already played. Twice. 
E.g. Dune 2/Dune 200/ Emperor: Battle for Dune
Pretty much the same game with new clothles.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 8, 2006)

Bokracroc said:
			
		

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That was actually a boo boo on my part.  I meant to say terrible story.   (Thanks for catching that for me.)

In the same token all the Wii is doing is pimping "Lolz, we have teh 0rsm alternative controls lol!"

Which is exactly what it should be doing.  They are both things that are meant to draw people into their system, by highlighting things that their console can do.  Some people want new ways to play games, some people want games to look better and these are just attempts to reach those audiences.

If you look back on Playstation titles, even those not too far back on the PS2, they weren't all mindless graphical dribble.  Shadow of Colossus was an amazingly fun and unique game.  It had some unique graphical effects for its time on the PS2 but the thing that drew people in was the unique gameplay the title brought.  See what I said there?  It had cool graphics and unique gameplay.  The two can exist hand in hand and developers know that.

As long as successes like Katamari Damacy, Shadow of Colossus, Guitar Hero, Odama, and DDR continue, developers will continue to see unique styles of game play as something to consider and implement when developing new games, regardless of what console they are on.  Just because Sony is tooting their horn on the technical prowess of their console, doesn't mean that the third-party developers (which largely make up the Playstation's library and software support, unlike Nintendo) are thinking the same way.

For example, Resistance: Fall of Man, is an upcoming FPS for the PS3 featuring an alternate reality where WW2 never happened and instead the Human race was attacked by an alien species in the 1950s.  Sounds pretty generic.  Though, it's coming from the boys over at Insomniac (the guys who created the Ratchet and Clank series which is well known for it's unique and strange array of weapons), and the developers said in several interviews that they wanted to bring that uniqueness back in this new title.  Sure it will have your standard rifles, pistols and machine guns, but it's going to also feature a variety of the alien weapons which they promise will be unique and unlike any weapons we've ever seen in a FPS before.

That sounds promising to me.  Yes it has the WOW! factor of pretty graphics, but it's going to feature some new strategizing with the different weapons that weren't really around before.  In most FPS, you trade up your guns for better versions or slightly tweaked versions of the same gun.  Think if you had a gun that could shoot around corners?

It's developers like this that give me hope for the PS3.  People who are willing to do something unique and different, even in a very stagnant genre like FPS.


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## Suule (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Someone needs to make a homebrew DS cart supporting 512MB and see if the DS supports it.



I think there are already FlashCarts with that kind of space. I mean... I've seen GBA +128Mbit flash-carts that could hold 4-5 games.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 8, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> silverwolfe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know those exist.  I want to see DS flash carts though... >.>


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## Suule (Sep 8, 2006)

> *POSTS ABOUT GRAPHICS VS PLAYABLITY*



To sum it up... we're grumpy gamers. We went through times when our favourite game was two bars bouncing a square. Playablity means a lot to us, cause in the era of lousy graphics, that was what kept our eyes glued to the screen. We forgot that the after 80's generation who still remember 8-bit gaming, came the 90's one and currently the 2k one. Crazy kids instead of great storylines and hours of breath-taking stories preffer tons of eye candy.

Sad but true. We have to live with it. 

To me "OMG GREAT GRAPHICS" is an indication that you should "approach with caution." Never judge a box by it's cover.

As for "Wii controls are just a gimmick"... hmrrr... ever played with a VR helmet? The controls there were primitive gyroscopic devices. So to me at Nintendo is trying to revive a forgotten technology, bringing it into a new age. I kind of hope to see a swordfighting game brought to Wii, since I'm dying for a good RPG that would simulate swordfighting in the same way Daggerfall felt. Not to mention... if Lionhead studios ever released B&W 2 on Wii, think how easy will it be to make miracles. It would be like waving a magic wand.

Pretty much like the touchscreen that was for some time PDA/Tablet only. It was brought into the gaming with much better success than anyone could've dreamed of.

The main problem with me developing for a console is the controller. I can't do adventure games, cause the pad is not a mouse and critical 'timed' events should be either excluded from the game, or dumbed down. Same goes for RTSes (I'm really wondering how Settlers DS will look like though).
Second of all - there's a limited number of buttons which pretty much kills the idea of releasing a sim (I'm still trying to figure a way to do my SpaceSim NDS tech demo, without using the touchscreen). So the games have to be dumbed down sometimes. 

So I think that changing the controller along with the graphics is the way to give people more opportunites with introducing new ideas and genres. 

Piece of trivia: My friend and I used to play a game called "Aerosmith: Quest For Fame", it had a  plectrum/guitar (YES!) attached to LPT1 as controler. The object of the game was to strike the guitar/plectrum at the EXACT moment the note should be played. Sounds like guitar hero/DDR?


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## Suule (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> I know those exist.  I want to see DS flash carts though... >.>



I think they will be available after DS MAX


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 8, 2006)

Hrmm...  DS MAX.. You mean that big HDD thingy?


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## Bokracroc (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> In the same token all the Wii is doing is pimping "Lolz, we have teh 0rsm alternative controls lol!"
> 
> Which is exactly what it should be doing.  They are both things that are meant to draw people into their system, by highlighting things that their console can do.


Which is good. We're up to the 7th generation of gaming. Since the 5th (N64/PS1) the only thing we have been getting from Sony is more graphics. Anything esle control-wise was mainly devlopered sided (Dance mats, the drum kit thingy, Guitar Hero guitar) but that meant extra $$$.
The Wii is giving it a head start by already giving them the hammer, thy just need to use it.

EDIT: lulz, midnight typing skillz. Fixed up as much as I could be bothered.


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## Silver R. Wolfe (Sep 8, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> To me "OMG GREAT GRAPHICS" is an indication that you should "approach with caution." Never judge a box by it's cover.



And thankfully, games are out of Sony's hands.  If Sony did truly have the reigns over ever title developed for them, then it wouldn't be a good sign. >.>

And I'm not knocking alternative controls, they work and alot of times they are better than a standard controller.  However, in the case of the Wii, most of the purposes for the Wiimote has been mouse emulation.  Look at videos for Battalion Wars Wii.

And while it may be more fun or intuitive to wave the 'wand' for a game like B&W2, it still is just as if you were using a mouse, just not being restricted to a tabletop.



			
				Bokracroc said:
			
		

> We're up to the 7th generation of gaming. Since the 5th (N64/PS1) the only thing we have been getting from Sony is more graphics. Anything esle control-wise was mainly devlopered sided (Dance mats, the drum kit thingy, Guitar Hero guitar) but that meant extra $$$.



Input methods/controls don't necessarily need to change for there to be innovation.  I think it's quite arrogant for you to say all we've been getting from Sony is more graphics.  We've been getting a variety of unique titles that make gamers play completely different ways than they were used to.  I cite Shadows of Colossus again as an example.

And when you think about it, up until now, all you got from Nintendo is more graphics as far as their console division is concerned.


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## Suule (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> And thankfully, games are out of Sony's hands.  If Sony did truly have the reigns over ever title developed for them, then it wouldn't be a good sign. >.>
> 
> And I'm not knocking alternative controls, they work and alot of times they are better than a standard controller.  However, in the case of the Wii, most of the purposes for the Wiimote has been mouse emulation.  Look at videos for Battalion Wars Wii.
> 
> And while it may be more fun or intuitive to wave the 'wand' for a game like B&W2, it still is just as if you were using a mouse, just not being restricted to a tabletop.



True. Nevertheless, if Wii's controler is a mouse alone, the leap has been made - you won't need to buy a separate mouse. And yes, the whole B&W Miracle system was made like "drawing with your finger on the sand", I'm not saying it wasn't fun, but for people who haven't played it yet it will CERTAINLY be a new experience. 

And yes. My gripe with Nintendo was always that they always 'chose' their titles, unlike Sony.


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## Suule (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Hrmm...  DS MAX.. You mean that big HDD thingy?



All-purpose device from running everything from ROMs to movies. Without any Firmware mods.


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## Bokracroc (Sep 8, 2006)

silverwolfe said:
			
		

> Bokracroc said:
> 
> 
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It certainly makes it easier and cheaper. Keep in mind I'm in Australia and we don't get everything you get. Sure we can import from over-seas but that meaning even more $$$
We get a shit range of PSP and DS games in stores. If we want the good stuff we have to import most of the time. We get skipped over every now and then with games and it's hardware. We will always get the Wow! factor games while others won't get a mention.
With the Wii, the controller is already given to us so the 'innovative' games are easier to come by.


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