# Shmearing okay?



## pagos_fora (Apr 23, 2013)

So I am trying to draw a picture from the web, but I can't seem to get the hand right for some reason. Do people like a "clean" drawing or is it okay to have eraser marks on the product, because I really do not feel like re-drawing it because I am afraid it wont look the same as my original concept :/


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## DMAN14 (Apr 24, 2013)

Well does it matter what people like? Are you putting it on FA? If you scan it in you could then probably photoshop the eraser marks out.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

that's the thing. I don't have photoshop


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## Umbra.Exe (Apr 24, 2013)

You could use GIMP instead of Photoshop. It's free, and pretty similar to Photoshop.
I'm sure there are other free image programs out there, but I've only used GIMP before.

And I suppose you could always try to trace your original onto a new sheet of paper, but I've found that even when traced, it doesn't quite look the same.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

I think it looks okay for now. I am sure someone will appreciate the dedication towards the art work.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 24, 2013)

People appreciate well crafted original artwork, and not copies of already existing illustrations that may violate the site's rules.


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## Teal (Apr 24, 2013)

Gimp is free and can be used to get rid of the lines. But copying random stuff from the internet is bad, and if you post it you are a terrible person.


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## DMAN14 (Apr 24, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> People appreciate well crafted original artwork, and not copies of already existing illustrations that may violate the site's rules.


 
This is a good point, if you copying someone's you may not want to upload it. If you really feel the need double check the rules and GIVE CREDIT. I don't see any problems copying someones art if your just practicing, but I wouldn't upload it.

Also for software I know that photoshop CS2 was free (completely legally, from adobe) for a while, but I'm not sure if it still is. I use AutoDesk Sketchbook Express which is far from the best system, but good enough for me. I got it with my bamboo tablet, but I know you can get it for free. I found a link for windows 8 below, I bet you can find it for 7 too. You could use a free trial too, I think even photoshop CS6 has a free two week or so trial.

Windows 8: 
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/sketchbook-express/95d1acfb-4d64-487a-9e20-8d6f6d41cb54


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 24, 2013)

Photoshop isn't going to fix the OP's problem.


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## Troj (Apr 24, 2013)

For those of you who need to edit your images, but don't have Photoshop, I recommend Pixlr. It's great.

Now, copying art is a whole 'nother kettle of fish that I'll leave ya'll to sort out, as  I originally thought this topic was going to be about bagels .


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## RTDragon (Apr 24, 2013)

Unfortunately op needs to learn the basics considering his gallery is copies of others artwork.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

because it's the only artwork I really know how to do, frankly. I am not I am not claiming them as my own, work They are just sketches of things I did when I was bored. I am no way nearly as talented as some people in the fandom. BUT I totally understand. My visual representations are garbage. Thanks for that.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> because it's the only artwork I really know how to do, frankly. I am not I am not claiming them as my own, work They are just sketches of things I did when I was bored. I am no way nearly as talented as some people in the fandom. BUT I totally understand. My visual representations are garbage. Thanks for that.



I'm sorry, but that's a stupid excuse. That's like saying "I steal because I never learned how to earn money at a job"

You *LEARN TO DRAW* it has nothing to do with talent. It has to do with practice. There is no magic. We had to learn how to draw too.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

and that's what I am doing. I am not selling the ORIGINAL content or anything, I am showing a visual representation. no one can be perfect artists, just like not everyone can create original content.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm sure the vast majority of people would be much more interested in art of your own invention, rendered imperfectly, than a well finished copy, anyway. So don't worry about making some mistaked and producing art you're not happy with to begin with- the truth is nobody ever is, well unless they're a conceited smug-bug-in-a-rug.



pagos_fora said:


> and that's what I am doing. I am not selling  the ORIGINAL content or anything, I am showing a visual representation.  no one can be perfect artists, just like not everyone can create  original content.



Everyone can produce original content, although there's no certainty it will be good without many hours of practice. If you trace or plagiarise then I suppose that's okay for your personal learning, but you should avoid uploading that unless you have the artist's permission or they are an old master artist.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

I consider it to be Fan art. I am not claiming original content. It's just for me to see what I am good at and what I am not,  and for me to get feedback from other people. that's just my opinion. If you look in my gallery you would notice that most of the items are Disney related. I am not Walt Disney, therefore I cannot claim it as my own. There is one art work I have uploaded but I gave the artist credit.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 24, 2013)

That is not fan art. Don't say I didn't warn you when your submissions get taken down and you get suspended


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

Then what would be considered "fan art" hmmm?


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## Fallowfox (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> Then what would be considered "fan art" hmmm?



Fan art_ isn't _tracing and or plagiarism. You might draw the characters of a popular film but you wouldn't do so by drawing over the top of someone's work or copying the original artists line for line. 

Fan art is whenever the initial idea or design is from a television show, book, movie, comic; but not when the image itself is a copy.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

But that's the thing. I am NOT tracing it, and for the record, the product isn't finished yet. Maybe if you saw what I was working on, then you'd understand.


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## Fallowfox (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> But that's the thing. I am NOT tracing it, and for the record, the product isn't finished yet. Maybe if you saw what I was working on, then you'd understand.



If you're not tracing it or copying someone else's image completely, then it's original content- isn't it? 

And agreed.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

I was using someone's image for an idea because I cannot draw anything that I cannot see. My concept is going to be a combination of two video games


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 24, 2013)

OP. No one is going to hate you if you create your own original works and post them. We may give you input but it is only to help you improve.

However, the more excuses you try to justify plagiarism, people will start to be angry and possibly despise you. At the very least you aren't earning respect this way.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

Look maybe I don't realize that what I am doing is considered plagiarism because no one has ever told me otherwise. if it makes you feel better I will take down my artwork and possibly my account since I am not getting anywhere with it anyways


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## Troj (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't think I understand what the OP's actually doing here with the art. 

Copying directly? Just using pictures as a reference? Taking different elements directly from other people's art, and combining them? What?


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

I am using others artwork for a reference so I have a general idea of what I actually want to draw. Yes, there are some artwork in my gallery from which I got off the internet, but not from places like DA.  I was merely googling images that could use to see if I was able to draw them or not. take this image for example http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10422024/ it was a cross-reference. The original artwork was on a box of a paint-by-number- in which I substituted the cat for a skitty, and the horse for a Rapidash.


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## Taralack (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> Look maybe I don't realize that what I am doing is considered plagiarism because no one has ever told me otherwise. if it makes you feel better I will take down my artwork and possibly my account since I am not getting anywhere with it anyways



It's alright to use copying as a learning tool - but only if you actually learn something from the process instead of just blindly copying because you liked how it looked. And as a general rule you should never post these without credit to the original artist. 

http://artstudiosecrets.blogspot.com.au/2009/02/tip-master-copies.html
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=354836
http://www.drewmelton.com/old-masters-copies.html
http://www.easy-oil-painting-techniques.org/copy-famous-paintings.html

It's understandable if you didn't realize what you were doing is actually considered plagiarism - a lot of newbie artists make the same mistake. The best you can do now is admit you were wrong and step back from it. As Arshes said, the more you try to argue the point, the angrier people are going to get, because copyright is a huge issue. Don't get discouraged, learn from everything you copy, if you take away something new each time you copy, then you will be growing as an artist. 

As for referencing other artwork, or combining aspects of multiple artworks into your own, it's completely fine. Artists bounce around with a lot of ideas, and it is only by combining elements from several different things that new things can be made. Again, it's always a good idea to state what exactly you're referencing.


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## Teal (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> I am using others artwork for a reference so I have a general idea of what I actually want to draw. Yes, there are some artwork in my gallery from which I got off the internet, but not from places like DA.  I was merely googling images that could use to see if I was able to draw them or not. take this image for example http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10422024/ it was a cross-reference. The original artwork was on a box of a paint-by-number- in which I substituted the cat for a skitty, and the horse for a Rapidash.


 Taking things off of google does not make it okay.  The only things it's okay to copy is stock art (which there is plenty of free stuff out there) and even then you shouldn't copy it exactly. And you must follow the rules of the stock. And you have to give credit for the sources.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

Okay so here's what I will do: I am going to delete all my drawings of the site, because clearly its violation FA federal guidelines.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 24, 2013)

Lol Federal guidelines.

Copyright violations yes. FA is a private site, not government, but it does respect artist's copyright for the most part.

Deleting them is a good idea, but we do want to see you learn.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

well then I do not belong on this site. who am I to believe I'd be accepted into a fandom with open arms when I can't even follow the simplest directions. It's a shame that this site is for REAL artists and not some wannabe. but I digress, I have removed the artwork that violates any copyright law. What really bothers me is that I have absolutely NO skill in creating my own drawings. I cannot come up with an idea on a whim, and jot it on paper, which is why I use other pictures for ideas.


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## RTDragon (Apr 24, 2013)

Have you actually looked at the tutorials and critique subforum here? There are several artists that have made sketchbook threads to improve on their own artwork.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

Not really because I am at an identity crises. I mean, I don't even know who I am....or what breed I want to be


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## Troj (Apr 24, 2013)

Oh, lordy.

I find one of the best ways to resolve an identity crisis is to devote yourself to worthwhile, interesting activities, because doing so will teach you who you are, and what you are and aren't good at.

If your only identity problem here is what species your fursona needs to be, just think about the animals you relate to, the animals you like, the animals you think you most resemble, and the animals OTHER people would say most resemble you. 

Also, what I wouldn't give to have "what is my species?" be my main dilemma in life. Lucky ducky.


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## pagos_fora (Apr 24, 2013)

well, the only identity crises I have is my species. Part of me wants it to resemble an ice wolf because of my role play alter ego. But then the other part of me wants me to be a horse or a bovine because I am fascinated by both. But I digress, that is another mute issue.


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## Teal (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> well then I do not belong on this site. who am I to believe I'd be accepted into a fandom with open arms when I can't even follow the simplest directions. *It's a shame that this site is for REAL artists and not some wannabe*. but I digress, I have removed the artwork that violates any copyright law. What really bothers me is that I have absolutely NO skill in creating my own drawings. I cannot come up with an idea on a whim, and jot it on paper, which is why I use other pictures for ideas.


 There are both professional artist and amateurs on the site. Using other pictures for ideas is fine, copying them is not.


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## Troj (Apr 24, 2013)

pagos_fora said:


> well, the only identity crises I have is my species. Part of me wants it to resemble an ice wolf because of my role play alter ego. But then the other part of me wants me to be a horse or a bovine because I am fascinated by both. But I digress, that is another mute issue.



Be both! Lots of people have more than one fursona.


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## Ansitru (Apr 24, 2013)

Troj said:


> Be both! Lots of people have more than one fursona.



That or make them into a hybrid? I've seen some pretty good ones on FA so far.


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## Teal (Apr 24, 2013)

Troj said:


> Be both! Lots of people have more than one fursona.


 I have three.


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## CaptainCool (Apr 24, 2013)

"Identity crisis"? You are a human. Crisis resolved!


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## FireFeathers (Apr 24, 2013)

*Gets out the rubber hose* *ties hose around arm* *taps veins before rubbing some iodine on it* *injects pure TALENT* *paints like a mofo* 

I originally came here to make a quick comment about yiddish, but now....oyyyyyyvey. 



pagos_fora said:


> Not really because I am at an identity crises. I mean, I don't even know who I am....or what breed I want to be


  That's not a real crisis. Not having money for rent and it's 3 days away, THEMS a crisis. Not knowing your sona? Just...don't have one then.  It's not a day pass to get you into the site or anything, I have plenty of REG- YOO-LAR  HYOO-MAN friends.  I am going to assume you are very young from this statement. That seems like a young-person dilemma. Just don't be a black wolf with red eyes.  or a white wolf with blue eyes. You can't get into the club then.


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