# What happen to freedom speech of art fiction



## Inu1990x (Sep 9, 2012)

Every  we are told fiction art to make something that not real we are allowed to make anything we want that stays on paper  so i find stupid people are now attacking it.

As we were told we can draw anything not real and even the real life artist under 18 can see naked women in there art classes there breast butt and vagina as we use the excuse artisc art work

So why then we attack our own work that is fiction not real only on paper.


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## kaskae (Sep 9, 2012)

...I'm sorry, what? You might want to take a moment to compose your thoughts and try to reword this so we can get a better picture as to what you're trying to say. I have somewhat of an idea, but I don't want to jump the gun and give you a wrong answer.


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## Inu1990x (Sep 9, 2012)

you know school and people who make art work right they told us anything fiction is not real and alloweed we can do that by usa laws as it stay on paper
but then were did this new laws come from cub art or any cartoony art is againgt the law as there no real proof in usa law of fictions arts


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## Zenia (Sep 9, 2012)

It is against the rules of FA, that's all.


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## Fay V (Sep 9, 2012)

Freedom of speech, or expression are not a magical "do what you want" card. 

Freedom of expression is a government right, it means that you may express yourself without fear of consequences from the government. If I say "obama looks dumb" I don't have to worry about secret forces breaking into my house and arresting me. It is designed so that you have the right to question the government. 

It has limitations, including slader, libel, and incitement of illegal activity. 

Most importantly FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR EXPRESSION DOES NOT APPLY TO PRIVATE BUSINESSES. It doesn't matter if you want to draw babies fucking each other, this is a private site. They can ban images of apples if they want. 
This is why businesses will say they have the right to refuse service, they do and that includes kiddy porn. 

Actually know what the right is and what it means before you start crying about it.


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## Inu1990x (Sep 9, 2012)

Zenia said:


> It is against the rules of FA, that's all.


but the fa tos say we don't go again the artis creativity views and people


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## Smelge (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> but the fa tos say we don't go again the artis creativity views and people



Is this even fucking English?

Stop being a mongoloid and type in a way people can understand.

But I'm pretty certain what the OP is trying to say, is that he likes seeing pictures of children being raped and molested because it makes him hard, and we should accommodate him because obviously being turned on by a drawing of child abuse doesn't mean you love children or are a pedophile. Man, that would be so silly to even think.


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## Inu1990x (Sep 9, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Is this even fucking English?
> 
> Stop being a mongoloid and type in a way people can understand.
> 
> But I'm pretty certain what the OP is trying to say, is that he likes seeing pictures of children being raped and molested because it makes him hard, and we should accommodate him because obviously being turned on by a drawing of child abuse doesn't mean you love children or are a pedophile. Man, that would be so silly to even think.



oo some one broke tos rules no  calling other bad worls
no sladnering some one name 
no discrimination people from diffrent langueas by calling is this fucking english


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

Alright. I've been lurking just to see when FA comes back and for what's going on.
But all I see is Inu1990x posting constantly in multiple places over the same topic.

At this point, you are witch-hunting for people who disagree with you.
Child(Cub) porn is against the law in the USA. If SoFurry and InkBunny want to break the law, let them.
Furaffinity backed out before it pulled them under. Leave it alone.
Whining about it isn't going to get it back for you. Just go find another outlet.
Rights only reach as far as the end of your nose anyways.
As soon as what you do/say tramples on the rights of others, you no longer have said right.

As I see it, there is no way child(cub) is consensual* sex. A child would never know nor understand what is going on.
Thus making images/art of this would be projecting rape. All of which, hits home in too many ways for too many people.

And understand this, it's a private site. They don't have to allow anything they don't want.
Complaining about it is going to get you nowhere but disliked.


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## thedesertwolf (Sep 9, 2012)

Guy is an immigrant. His English isn't that great but I think it just boils down to some of the recent changes in rules according to FA, you know back on that whole "Cubs and cub related artwork will be taken down and the account banned" bit. Frankly not my thing though believe it may have alienated a rather decent portion of the base. Can thank US laws on that one, anything that can be labeled as "child" these days is a good way to get your name put on a registered sex offender list.


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## kaskae (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thrown off by the clusterfuck of bad English, haha. I understand the point of OP's topic now. So long as you want to continue to use FA, you must abide by it's rules, no matter how arbitrary or unfair you may find them to be. Nobody is forcing you to stay.


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## Summercat (Sep 9, 2012)

Okay, when I was ranting about "Rights you don't have"?

This thread.


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## Smelge (Sep 9, 2012)

thedesertwolf said:


> Guy is an immigrant. His English isn't that great



Fine, I have no problem with that, but he's managing to get words right, but apparently can't be bothered to make sentences that work.


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## Inu1990x (Sep 9, 2012)

As I see it, there is no way child(cub) is consensual* sex. A child would never know nor understand what is going on.
Thus making images/art of this would be projecting rape. All of which, hits home in too many ways for too many people.

And understand this, it's a private site. They don't have to allow anything they don't want.
Complaining about it is going to get you nowhere but disliked. 

So you say two kids in age 16 years old can love eacth other or under stand as they are alloweed to have adult action as baby and getting married by there parent so are you calling there love a fake too

and my two cousin got pregant and happy living together has familiy so your saying there love is fake because there not 18


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## kaskae (Sep 9, 2012)

Summercat said:


> Okay, when I was ranting about "Rights you don't have"?
> 
> This thread.



Gotta love dem nutshells.

EDIT: Dear god Inu, sweetheart, I'd love to try and help you out but really the best thing you could do at this given moment is to just close your Internet browser and sleep.


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## Inu1990x (Sep 9, 2012)

kaskae said:


> Gotta love dem nutshells.
> 
> EDIT: Dear god Inu, sweetheart, I'd love to try and help you out but really the best thing you could do at this given moment is to just close your Internet browser and sleep.



my familiy aren't from the usa


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## kaskae (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> my familiy aren't from the usa



That's fantastic.

You might just want to quit while you're ahead.


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## Summercat (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> my familiy aren't from the usa



Nobody cares where your family is from. We care that you are making 0 sense and are about as coherent as Clint Eastwood talking to a chair.


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## Arcsol (Sep 9, 2012)

Dude it doesnt matter if you're not from the us, this is a us based site therefore it runs on us laws. Cub porn is illigal here, plain and simple. Check another site if you want to see it.


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

Ok, if we are going to quote me, lets atleast do it right, kay?



casual-insanity said:


> Alright. I've been lurking just to see when FA comes back and for what's going on.
> But all I see is Inu1990x posting constantly in multiple places over the same topic.
> 
> At this point, you are witch-hunting for people who disagree with you.
> ...





Inu1990x said:


> So you say two kids in age 16 years old can love eacth other or under stand as they are alloweed to have adult action as baby and getting married by there parent so are you calling there love a fake too
> 
> and my two cousin got pregant and happy living together has familiy so your saying there love is fake because there not 18



No where did I say love was fake. The legal age for consent to sex may be 16-24 in most states but that does not make the 16-18 year olds in that range ADULTS.
It is considered Child Porn until they turn 18. NOTHING is legal until 18 and even some states it's 19 or 21.
Even if one 16 year old passes around nude images of another 16 year old, it is still considered child porn trafficking under the Federal law and BOTH teenagers will go to FEDERAL prison.
A parent, yes even your cousin's parent's (if they are legally residing in the US), could have filed statutory RAPE because they were under 18 and won in court.
Do NOT put words in my mouth (posts) that I did not say. I don't know your family situation. I was just explaining US customs and LAWS.


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

My real question is, if you aren't from America, why are you arguing when us Americans are trying to explain our laws?
It's one thing to not understand and listen, but you are out right ignoring us.
We were trying to help you understand why and how but it's like you don't give a damn at all?


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## Xaerun (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> Every  we are told fiction art to make something that not real we are allowed to make anything we want that stays on paper  so i find stupid people are now attacking it.
> 
> As we were told we can draw anything not real and even the real life artist under 18 can see naked women in there art classes there breast butt and vagina as we use the excuse artisc art work
> 
> So why then we attack our own work that is fiction not real only on paper.


I found a really nice forum post about this a while back that I posted on my blog:



> Lately I have seen quite a few posts that mention "free speech". Apparently some of you are not aware of the fact that freedom of speech is not protected here because this forum is the private property of [FORUM]. They can exercise the same rights in censoring you here that you can exercise in your own living room.
> 
> Everyone has house rules and they have every right enforce those rules, I cant come to your house and just say anything I please because its your house, you would have every right to ask me to leave if I did. The same applies here, this is [FORUM]'s house and the forums mods and admins are required to uphold [FORUM]'s rules.
> 
> **Although the constitution of the US guarantees that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, this website is not Congress. Freedom of speech rights do not extend to this privately owned website. The ToS/RoC of this website governs the behaviors and activities of the members. If you choose not to follow the guidelines agreed to during registration, the result is action to your posting account up to and including a permanent ban on your posting privileges. If you feel you cannot abide by those documents, this may not be the place for you.**


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## Smelge (Sep 9, 2012)

casual-insanity said:


> A parent, yes even your cousin's parent's (if they are legally residing in the US), could have filed statutory RAPE because they were under 18 and won in court.



Depends if it counts as legitimate rape. Legitimate rape is fine, non-harming and women can deal with it naturally. It's that pesky illegitimate rape that causes problems and babies.


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## Unsilenced (Sep 9, 2012)

I...

This...

...

I don't know if it's physically possible to beat oneself to death with a keyboard, but this thread inspires me to try.


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Depends if it counts as legitimate rape. Legitimate rape is fine, non-harming and women can deal with it naturally. It's that pesky illegitimate rape that causes problems and babies.


Please tell me you are just playing and joking with what the Republican said?
Because, as we have never talked before, I don't know how serious you are?

I can disprove said allegation of "legitimate rape not causing pregnancy". That shit was real and scarring.
I'm only able to talk about it because I want to be there for others.


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## Xaerun (Sep 9, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Depends if it counts as legitimate rape. Legitimate rape is fine, non-harming and women can deal with it naturally. It's that pesky illegitimate rape that causes problems and babies.



Woah there son, do you have a licence for that there rapin'?


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## Zenia (Sep 9, 2012)

casual-insanity said:


> Please tell me you are just playing and joking with what the Republican said?


It is Smelge. I think all of his posts have an invisible :V at the end of them. XD


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## kaskae (Sep 9, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Depends if it counts as legitimate rape. Legitimate rape is fine, non-harming and women can deal with it naturally. It's that pesky illegitimate rape that causes problems and babies.



halp oh my god my sides


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

Zenia said:


> It is Smelge. I think all of his posts have an invisible :V at the end of them. XD


Haha. Sorry, that damn quote just sets me on edge. And over the internet, you sometimes just don't know who's playing and who's serious!
XD
Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Smelge (Sep 9, 2012)

Xaerun said:


> Woah there son, do you have a licence for that there rapin'?



Funny you should say that, but I was in Thailand recently...


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Funny you should say that, but I was in Thailand recently...


Sounds hot. Oh wait, no!!!

*soaps brain*


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## CaptainCool (Sep 9, 2012)

FA is a private website. The owner has all the rights to decide what can or can't be uploaded to his own server.
You are free to upload anything that is allowed by the rules set up by the owner.


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## ArtemisZiebenwolf (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> oo some one broke tos rules no  calling other bad worls
> no sladnering some one name
> no discrimination people from diffrent langueas by calling is this fucking english


... What is this I don't even....
No, he didn't slander your name. He called it as we all saw it.
Just because the children on paper may (or may not be) "fictional" 
Or that the person involved in snuff art may (or may not be) "Fictional"
Or whatever the hell it applies to; does not make it okay.

I mean, I can fantasize all I want about castrating pedophiles that harm children because it gives me a sense of satisfaction and justice in this world.
But that definitely doesn't make it okay. :|

Alsoly, using freedom of expression as a get out of jail free card does not fly in a privately owned business. In this case, FA.
Don't like it? Don't buy it.
Get the fuck out and go to Inkbunny or some stupid shit like that.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> oo some one broke tos rules no  calling other bad worls
> no sladnering some one name
> no discrimination people from diffrent langueas by calling is this fucking english



What about Smelge's freedom of speech? Or is that only important when it's in your favour?


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## ArtemisZiebenwolf (Sep 9, 2012)

Hakar Kerarmor said:


> What about Smelge's freedom of speech? Or is that only important when it's in your favour?


Don't you know? Freedom of Speech/expression PROTECTS you from the resulting backlash of how you use _your_ freedom of speech and expression!
STOP IMPEDING ON INU1990X'S RIGHTS FOR HAVING A DIFFERING AND LOGICAL OPINION, GOD DAMN IT!!
WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM?!


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## Summercat (Sep 9, 2012)

Guys? Tone it down.


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## ArtemisZiebenwolf (Sep 9, 2012)

Summercat said:


> Guys? Tone it down.


Oops. >>; sorry.


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## Fallowfox (Sep 9, 2012)

Inu1990x said:


> Every  we are told fiction art to make something that not real we are allowed to make anything we want that stays on paper  so i find stupid people are now attacking it.
> 
> As we were told we can draw anything not real and even the real life artist under 18 can see naked women in there art classes there breast butt and vagina as we use the excuse artisc art work
> 
> So why then we attack our own work that is fiction not real only on paper.



I think that ultimately restriction in law of non-real worlds represented in art is thought-crime, because those non-real worlds are themselves harmless manifestations of thought. No matter how strange or twisted those thought processes might be. 

However I understand that some communities have to limit the amount and type of art they display because they do not posess infinite space to do so, so there's a small dissonance. 

At this moment in time we're caught in a strange world where depictions of graphic illegal mutilation and murder are celebrated in cinema and art, but illegal sex deplored. It's quite odd, which of the two is arguably far worse hypothetically?


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## Ouiji (Sep 9, 2012)

Free speech aside, would you want someone writing graffiti on your front door?  What if you own a business and your profits are going down because one of your employees is attempting to preach their religion to all of your customers?  How about you own a website, and someone that doesn't own it is posting child porn, which is illegal, and you get in trouble with the law?  Owners have rights too.


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## Smelge (Sep 9, 2012)

Fallowfox said:


> At this moment in time we're caught in a strange world where depictions of graphic illegal mutilation and murder are celebrated in cinema and art, but illegal sex deplored. It's quite odd, which of the two is arguably far worse hypothetically?



Well, this is an easy one to answer.

The illegal sex is worse than the death and violence. Most people would only be able to commit major violence or murder someone in extremis, and even if they did, it's usually pretty easy to see it's been done and hopefully track down the person who did it (usually the one with the intestines in their backpack).

Stuff like fucking kids is more insidious because if you do it carefully, people will never know. Or at least not for years. Look at the church, they've been doing it for centuries with no legal repercussions. Those guys know how to get their molest on. Illegal sex acts are harder to spot than death and violence, so in that respect, the sex is worse.

Ball is right the fuck in your court now.


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## casual-insanity (Sep 9, 2012)

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Your freedom of speech/expression is protected.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]But....[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You DO NOT have the right to NO get your feelings hurt.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You can not propose a debate and expect to not be disagreed with.
You can not do these things and then get mad when things didn't go your way.

Mostly, when the word CHILD is mentioned, we mean just that. CHILDREN. Under 16. Under 13. Under 10. 
When diaper porn is made, when there is an image of a child having sex with an adult, when there is an image made by an adult of these situations, it steps on the rights of children.
It takes away their right to "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The whole "16" argument you tried to use is getting swept out the door too.
Because it all matters as to which state/country the site is from and in which it is being viewed.

The whole "FREEDOM OF SPEECH~!???" argument you tried to use is null in point when involved with a private institution.[/FONT]


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## Ansitru (Sep 9, 2012)

Let's see if I can dumb this down to make it understandable enough for OP.

_Child porn = bad. Child is not sexual being.
Bad. BAD._


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## Fallowfox (Sep 9, 2012)

Smelge said:


> Well, this is an easy one to answer.
> 
> The illegal sex is worse than the death and violence. Most people would only be able to commit major violence or murder someone in extremis, and even if they did, it's usually pretty easy to see it's been done and hopefully track down the person who did it (usually the one with the intestines in their backpack).
> 
> ...



The justification for the discrependcy between the reception of these heinious acitvities in a virtual art world is that 'murder cases are easier to solve than sexual abuse,' ? 

I don't think that really makes sense. 

Both activities are awfully disgusting, I feel the discrepency involved is related to the demographs exepcted to view the imagery, rather than how good the police are at solving cases of real life murder or sex abuse. Gore has become so widespread that your average tween has already seen a few thousand graphic murders on television, and we don't typically expct gorey images to insight pleasure or motivation, but sexually abusive imagery is expected to be recieved by an audience of perverts and maybe even motivate them on to cause crime. 

The activities themselves though are, if we contrast them, _conversely_ horrific in their magnitude. Sex abuse is awful but horrific murder is evidently the ultimate of horrors, death. So it seems strange that murder is a rather normal theme to portray, I've even portrayed murder in some of my art. I suppose we are desensitised to violence as a culture, but that a hypersensitised fear still exists around sex abuse. In my view disallowing art or literature for that reasoning is a phobic response, the existance of art and literature being a minimul stimulus in reality, but I do appreciate some public spaces just don't want it.


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## Smelge (Sep 9, 2012)

casual-insanity said:


> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
> 
> Your freedom of speech/expression is protected.
> But....
> ...



Children have rights?

I just don't like child porn because it's so hard to get them to stop crying afterwards. Have you any idea how much it costs me in sweets every week?


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## Ansitru (Sep 9, 2012)

Fallowfox said:


> The justification for the discrependcy between the reception of these heinious acitvities in a virtual art world is that 'murder cases are easier to solve than sexual abuse,' ?
> 
> I don't think that really makes sense.
> 
> ...



My reasoning will probably sound off or idiotic, but I'm going to try anyway.

While horrific murders, mutilation and defiling are definitely not okay, I think being sexually abused is in some aspects just as bad or even worse.
When someone is murdered, that's pretty much the end of their suffering: they're dead. I'm not saying this is good, or should be tolerated, or that this is okay.

However, when someone is molested, raped or a victim of sexual violence, they are killed on the inside without actually being killed.
I don't know how to properly explain it, but it's like taking away someone's humanity and expecting them to live with it, which to me sounds like it's ultimately worse to live for the rest of your life as an extremely damaged person. Yes, you still live, as opposed to the murder-victim, but at what cost?

Mind you, both crimes are horrific and terrible. I'm just trying to explain why a sex-crime may still be seen as worse.


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## Trpdwarf (Sep 9, 2012)

I am now closing this thread. People have attempted to explain why Freedom of Speech doesn't exactly apply to a privately owned site. This thread has devolved into making fun of the OP and or off topic arguments that are better done it their own thread in Off Topic. If I see this happen again some people are going to be upset. If you don't have something polite or useful to say to a person in Site Discussion then don't say anything at all. *Also Inu1990x stop making threads*.


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