# Art laptop recommendations?



## kitsunekoneko (Jun 22, 2013)

Hey guys! This fall I'm starting my first year of university, and I'm majoring in Studio Art, minoring in Computer Science, all that good exciting stuff, etc etc..
In short, I need a good laptop that can keep up with my digital artwork, and whatever artwork I need to scan. I'm kind of worried because I also need to get a new pen tablet (just to have everything fresh when I start school, I've had this one for a while) but I need to know that it'll work with win8 - My father is buying the laptop for me, but he's totally against buying that sort of thing online. He'll just drag me to BestBuy at some random time, and last time I checked, BestBuy was just full of computers running win8. Please let me know if that has changed.
You might be able to tell already, I'm not much of a Mac fan at all, so a Macbook and basically every other Apple product is off the list for me. (tbh, I'm not much of a Microsoft fan, either)

But anyway, to be more specific, I just need some ideas and suggestions on brands and specs. From the research I've done, these specs seem to be ideal (and bear with me, I almost have no idea as to what I'm saying):



500GB HDD / 7200RPM. Or 256GB SSD
12GB+ RAM
an i5 processor (?)
a good monitor. I have no idea how to describe this, or the terms I should be using. Please don't laugh.

The monitor I must stress because I've worked with some very badly calibrated monitors (See: The laptop I am using at this very moment). I'm sure we all know how important a calibrated monitor is for a digital artist. And of course, a clear, high resolution display would be great.
On a side note, any info about pen tablets that work with win8 would be nice. I've heard of tons of issues with Wacom on windows 8, and I'm not sure if they were fixed or not. I've also come across this beauty which seems to be a bargain, but I'm worried it's not as durable as a Wacom Bamboo is. 

Thanks for reading through, I appreciate anyone taking their time to help me out!


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## GhostJag (Jun 22, 2013)

This is related to calibration of monitors. Look up Datacolor Spyder4Pro S4P100 Colorimeter for Display Calibration. It runs about $170, but will totally fix any color issues!


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 22, 2013)

Important questions:
- Are you going to be _animating_ anything or are you just going to be drawing and/or rendering stills?  There is a huge difference in what you need if you're going to just be generating big images versus big _moving_ images.
- Are you going to want this laptop to double as something that happens to be really good at video games? 

In either case, do try to get a business class laptop.

I've got to recommend the EliteBook series by HP based on the fact you'll be able to hit those requirements easy, and  that you can hurl it off of the top of a ladder and it'll be just FINE (personal accidental experience, also basically punched it off of a counter, and might've gotten it wet).  Plus, if you buy any business class stuff from HP, you actually get some  pretty fucking balling tech support, as in "English is my first  language" ballin'.  If you get anything from HP that isn't business class, the tech support is awful. 

I'm pretty sure the 8440w is  too old to be made anymore but they still make EliteBooks, and they're little freakin' survivors with ballin' wireless cards despite their "I'M A METAL BOX, WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'SIGNAL'?" construction.  I don't have a  high opinion of Dell for their tech support, but the ThinkPads were  also pretty indestructible.  

Maybe I am not understanding you  right but I am getting this impression that you think monitors come  calibrated and like, ... That you don't calibrate your own monitor at  whim.  Well, dude, I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not, you calibrate a  screen/monitor whenever you want.  There is a method your computer comes  with, usually, and if you can't find it, there are several free  software methods that you can download.   In fact, you ought to do it kind of often.

Resolution aside,  you're going to want a laptop no wider than about a foot if you're going  to be lugging it around (that's a 15 inch screen, the screen size is measured diagonally) every day. Anything  terribly bigger than that and you'll notice the cumbersome factor, I promise.  The LCD laptops will all have lenses that make the colors appear dimmer if you look at  them from the side more or less no matter what you do (matte, glossy, anti-glare screen...They all will do the same thing when it comes to polarization). 

I prefer  matte screens over glossy screens since I find glossy screens will...  Well, just get in the way because they're glossy, and so colors will  look lighter than they really are (to me), plus more saturated than they actually are. They're great entertainment screens, but not workhorse screens. The thing about matte screens, though, since  they diffuse the light all over the place, is that they do have a little more narrow viewing  angle, so you'll see colors start to appear DIMMER if you aren't looking  at it straight-on, but it's never been a difference enough to me to warrant buying a glossy monitor/screen. 

Visually  there is absolutely no difference between an LCD-CCFL and an LCD-LED, if  you happen to have to make the decision between the two.  LCD-CCFLs  take more battery power but it's such a tiny, tiny difference.

The  best choice in display there is is the IPS display, in regards to the  best viewing angle and how loyal it is to colors, but, I can't find a  single IPS display that isn't glossy.


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## Runefox (Jun 22, 2013)

Well, Apple aside (Retina MBP honestly is one of the best graphics design laptops out there once the display's calibrated - And you will need to calibrate the display for any computer / monitor for accuracy), the new Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus sounds like the next best thing - A higher res screen (13" 3200 x 1800 pixels, also IPS), 256GB SSD, 8GB of RAM and 12 hours of battery life. Only problem, it won't be out until sometime this fall and probably will weigh in at a similar price tag.

That's the best case scenario though, and assumes you're in the same budget range as Apple computers, since that's what the Samsungs are really competing with.

It's very difficult to find a good mobile display nowadays; The resolution is usually the only thing that's mentioned in laptop specs, so you're never quite sure if it's going to be IPS or not. Anyway... Some things to consider:



You will NOT find a computer available that comes with anything but Windows 8 or OS X. Windows 8 doesn't really have any issues with Wacom as far as I can tell; My Intuos 4 works quite well. The issues with Windows 8 are rather overblown, quite frankly; It's Windows 7 with a new coat of paint and a full-screen start menu. 
 


The hard drive size isn't really that big a deal; For laptops, a 7200RPM drive is faster, but sucks up more juice. The ideal nowadays are solid state drives (SSD's), which while lower in capacity, are WAY faster and better on battery life. Usually, a laptop is paired with a large external drive instead. 
 


6-8GB of RAM is about standard nowadays, but if you're going to be doing a lot of graphics work (say, a large (~4000x4000), multiple-layer Photoshop file or two, you'll actually hit the wall on that pretty quickly. If at all possible, look for 12 or 16GB, or if your laptop is upgradeable, look at upgrading later on down the road (this may be the more cost-effective option). I recommend this because with 16GB of RAM, working between Illustrator and Photoshop, I've *actually run out of memory*. Very rare situation, but a 6GB or 8GB machine would run into it more readily. 
 


An i5 is a pretty good place to start. Really, you won't need much more than that, but unless you've got a new Haswell CPU (i5-4xxx-series), it will come with pretty substandard integrated graphics. That's great for battery life, but it may drag down apps like Photoshop that take advantage of dedicated graphics processors. If you can, see if you can get one with an NVidia GeForce or AMD Radeon graphics processor. 
 


As for the display... Again, this is tougher. You'd ideally want an IPS screen, which means it doesn't polarize when you look at it on an angle (if you've looked at a cheap LCD from the side or top and seen the colours go weird, that's what I mean; If you've seen an iPhone 4 or newer's screen and noticed that this doesn't happen, that would be an example of an IPS screen). Unfortunately, this usually isn't listed on the specs of the computer, and is something you have to see for yourself much of the time. In addition, it will need to be calibrated if you want it to be as accurate as possible. The display resolution really depends on the size of the screen, but as a general rule, seek out 1080p (1920x1080) or higher screens. Most of the screens below this kind of caliber will be rather cheap. 

Of course, without knowing a general ballpark figure you're looking to spend, it's impossible to recommend anything specific.

EDIT:


> Visually  there is absolutely no difference between an LCD-CCFL and an  LCD-LED, if  you happen to have to make the decision between the two.   LCD-CCFLs  take more battery power but it's such a tiny, tiny  difference.


While I agree with much of your post, this is technically inaccurate. CCFL backlighting is preferred in professional displays because they degrade evenly over time and have a more consistent colour temperature. As LED's degrade at different rates, parts of the screen will end up with differing brightnesses, which won't make much of a visual impact at first, but will throw off graphics work. The advantages to LED are mainly in, as you said, power consumption and in thickness of the panel. Technically speaking, RGB-LED backlighting can produce amazing colour gamuts, but those are rare and as far as I know, unheard of in laptops.


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 22, 2013)

Huh~!  I thought they were one of those "There's a difference, but a difference most people won't care about" things.  Cool o:.


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## Runefox (Jun 22, 2013)

HipsterCoyote said:


> Huh~!  I thought they were one of those "There's a difference, but a difference most people won't care about" things.  Cool o:.


To be fair, that _is_ a difference _most_ people wouldn't care about.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 22, 2013)

HipsterCoyote said:


> Important questions:
> - Are you going to be _animating_ anything or are you just going to be drawing and/or rendering stills?  There is a huge difference in what you need if you're going to just be generating big images versus big _moving_ images.
> - Are you going to want this laptop to double as something that happens to be really good at video games?



- Nope, just rendering still, 2D images, at least for now.
- Nope!



HipsterCoyote said:


> Maybe I am not understanding you  right but I am getting this impression that you think monitors come  calibrated and like, ... That you don't calibrate your own monitor at  whim.  Well, dude, I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not, you calibrate a  screen/monitor whenever you want.  There is a method your computer comes  with, usually, and if you can't find it, there are several free  software methods that you can download.   In fact, you ought to do it kind of often.



I'm aware of this - most monitors aren't calibrated correctly, anyway. I worded myself very badly, sorry about that. I have calibrated my monitor before, but it really took some time and that was _with _help. I really need to sit down and work it through, actually.
It's just that, from looking at the selection in a computer store, many monitors displaying the same thing look rather different. Maybe that has nothing to do with calibration? Feel free to help me out here.

Thanks for the rest of the information - I'll take a look at the Elitebook models.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 22, 2013)

Runefox said:


> The hard drive size isn't really that big a deal; For laptops, a 7200RPM drive is faster, but sucks up more juice. The ideal nowadays are solid state drives (SSD's), which while lower in capacity, are WAY faster and better on battery life. Usually, a laptop is paired with a large external drive instead.



I've been considering a laptop with a solid state drive. I've actually only know about them for like a month now, when one of my (much more tech-savvy) friends told me about them. I've heard they're a lot more expensive than HDD's, but much much faster, seeing as they're essentially little flash drives in your computer.

Another thing I'm scared about is HDD failure. The laptop I'm using now actually had a failed drive back in the winter, I think? My father took it to BestBuy and sure enough the guys over there gave him a complete bullshit offer - a new HDD for $600. Six hundred... for an HDD? A bit much??
He just ended up getting a new laptop altogether. Heh. Surely enough, the laptop has a new hard drive. I'm just hoping he didn't turn to that $600 deal.

But anyway, point is, do SSDs have a longer life than HDDs? Are they at a higher or lower risk of suddenly "failing"? I've never completely understood HDD failure, so I'm not sure if an SSD could even fail or not (but in the end it's all technology; what sort of technology never fails?).
Either way, I'm leaning towards getting a laptop with an SSD.


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## Teal (Jun 22, 2013)

Runefox said:


> 6-8GB of RAM is about standard nowadays, but if you're going to be doing a lot of graphics work (say, a large (~4000x4000), multiple-layer Photoshop file or two, you'll actually hit the wall on that pretty quickly. If at all possible, look for 12 or 16GB, or if your laptop is upgradeable, look at upgrading later on down the road (this may be the more cost-effective option). I recommend this because with 16GB of RAM, working between Illustrator and Photoshop, I've *actually run out of memory*. Very rare situation, but a 6GB or 8GB machine would run into it more readily.


 I wish I had more RAM. :/


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## Runefox (Jun 22, 2013)

The reason you see differences in how screens look are mostly in the colour gamut of the screen. Some screens have wildly vibrant colours that aren't very realistic, which are usually that way because shiny sells. Not many laptop screens will really have a GREAT colour gamut, but most can be tuned to sRGB via a colorimeter, which will give you more consistent colours across devices. Very bright screens are also a bit of a red herring.

One thing you can do is pull up gradients on the screens. A lower quality screen or one that isn't well tuned will not show a smooth gradient, either being "banded", or having too much emphasis on certain colours / shades. Some screens may also appear to flicker slightly, which indicates a 6-bit panel - In order to display all the colours on screen, the panel switches very rapidly back and forth with a sort of noise / dither pattern to trick the eye into seeing more colours than the screen can actually display.

EDIT: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php is a great collection of tools; This link in particular is the grayscale gradient I mentioned. On a high quality panel, the gradient should be smooth and uninterrupted. On a lower quality panel, it may be broken up into several continuous bands of a single colour. It will appear "textured".


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 22, 2013)

Runefox said:


> The reason you see differences in how screens look are mostly in the colour gamut of the screen. Some screens have wildly vibrant colours that aren't very realistic, which are usually that way because shiny sells. Not many laptop screens will really have a GREAT colour gamut, but most can be tuned to sRGB via a colorimeter, which will give you more consistent colours across devices. Very bright screens are also a bit of a red herring.
> 
> One thing you can do is pull up gradients on the screens. A lower quality screen or one that isn't well tuned will not show a smooth gradient, either being "banded", or having too much emphasis on certain colours / shades. Some screens may also appear to flicker slightly, which indicates a 6-bit panel - In order to display all the colours on screen, the panel switches very rapidly back and forth with a sort of noise / dither pattern to trick the eye into seeing more colours than the screen can actually display.
> 
> EDIT: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php is a great collection of tools; This link in particular is the grayscale gradient I mentioned. On a high quality panel, the gradient should be smooth and uninterrupted. On a lower quality panel, it may be broken up into several continuous bands of a single colour. It will appear "textured".



Ahaaa, I see bands. Not amazingly noticeable, but definitely there.
I've heard of this site before. I would try calibrating this screen to its optimum, but... I have almost no idea how to (except to look at the color space setting it came with)

Side note: I am making SO many typos today, I swear my English is way better than this! (It's past 2AM over here, I should really be getting to sleep, hah...)


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 22, 2013)

If you're doing 2D work, you don't really need an icore5. It's not going to make you paint faster. Processor isn't as important when it comes to drawing. If you're doing video output or 3D work, processor matters more.

There are actually problems with windows 8 on Pen tablets especially if you're left handed because Windows 8 service doesn't always remember the correct mapping. This is even more true for the intuos5 touch. In addition, I've had pressure sensitivity drop constantly when first using 8 - the driver updates have helped it a bit. But Windows 8 also hides certain services making it more difficult to turn off when they do get in the way of drawing. In fact as a tester for other art software we had to give Wacom feedback on how unstable the drivers were so they can make better improvements. Some software will just use the basic settings for the tablets, and others actually develop for more intensive feedback. 

If you want to pay the money to go for Mac and Retina I guess you can do that, but honestly on a 15" space you're going to be wishing for more and may as well go with a 2nd monitor and get a large one - get an iPS even the lowest brand iPS is going to be better (I'm referring to the purchase of a 2nd monitor).

Please note if you do get a monitor calibrator to watch your color profiles. You may need to adjust appropriately per program - though some programs will not have the option to adjust profiles at all. 

SSD drives are more expensive. So expect to pay more for the drive - 50cents to $1 per GB. This also may not be ideal for you if you intend on taking it out on location and using an external combination, it's more shit to keep track of and possibly fall and break. Basically the most ideal way to do this is to either get a 1tb drive they do have hybrids that I've been testing which work pretty fine for loading just most of the important stuff ie OS and commonly used apps but they're still mechanical so they can have the failings of regular hard drives. However. I think you should just stick with about 500gbs on the main drive or at least 250 if you can afford an SSD and put files you don't always access on an external. If you get an SSD with too small of a drive where you are swapping out -as I said on location this is more stuff to keep track of and potential breakage because you're having to hook it up to the laptop and juggling around.

RAM I think is probably one of the more important issues, more important than the processor. So agreeing if you can get up to 16gb of RAM go for it. Least start out with 8gb. 

On a side note Wacom is announcing a mobile device for artwork pretty soon, but I don't know the costs for this. https://www.facebook.com/Wacom/posts/10151269211541691


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 22, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> If you're doing 2D work, you don't really need an icore5. It's not going to make you paint faster. Processor isn't as important when it comes to drawing. If you're doing video output or 3D work, processor matters more.
> 
> There are actually problems with windows 8 on Pen tablets especially if you're left handed because Windows 8 service doesn't always remember the correct mapping. This is even more true for the intuos5 touch. In addition, I've had pressure sensitivity drop constantly when first using 8 - the driver updates have helped it a bit. But Windows 8 also hides certain services making it more difficult to turn off when they do get in the way of drawing. In fact as a tester for other art software we had to give Wacom feedback on how unstable the drivers were so they can make better improvements. Some software will just use the basic settings for the tablets, and others actually develop for more intensive feedback.
> 
> ...



Very useful. Thank you.
I'm right handed, so I guess that's a _little _bit better. But anyway, I've heard about problems with Wacom on win8, so that's a problem. I hope I can talk to my dad and try to get a laptop off of the internet instead, because win7 seems to be the best OS choice right now. I've heard that BestBuy is actually putting a lot of Win7 computers back in their stores, but I can't confirm, especially with Runefox stating otherwise earlier.

I don't plan on getting an Intuos, but having a nice, larger pen tablet than the little Bamboo I have atm would be nice. This is why I'm considering the Huion - once again - http://www.amazon.com/Tursion-Graphic-Drawing-Capture-Tablet/dp/B008Y431CS - much cheaper, even bigger and even more pressure sensitivity. However, I'm worried about how well it works in win8.

I'm going to take some time to research some extra monitors.


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## Runefox (Jun 22, 2013)

Windows 7 computers generally are not available anymore; If you buy a new computer now, you'll more than likely have to buy Windows 7 as well if you want to downgrade. Really, you're better off just using Windows 8; I've not run into any issues with my Intuos on Windows 8, nor has my friend who's using a Bamboo Create.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 22, 2013)

Runefox said:


> Windows 7 computers generally are not available anymore; If you buy a new computer now, you'll more than likely have to buy Windows 7 as well if you want to downgrade. Really, you're better off just using Windows 8; I've not run into any issues with my Intuos on Windows 8, nor has my friend who's using a Bamboo Create.



I see. I hope I won't run into any problems, then. The good news is, the laptop I have is running a copy of win7 from DreamSpark, sponsored by my school. I may be able to install that copy as well and revert the computer to Windows Vista... (yes, it's an old piece o' junk). If I have any tablet driver problems with win8, anyway.


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 22, 2013)

I am so confused as to why you need a terabyte.   I have never in my computer-owning life filled up a hard drive past half full.  The only way I can think of how to do it is to just get a bunch of high-def movies on your hard drive.   Do you really need one?  Or am I just being an old man who doesn't realize they only do terabyte and up hard drives now or something?


Oh, also, don't get an HP DV*. A DV6, a DV5, a DVwhatevertheycomein.   I say "don't" because I noticed those a lot around when I was studying 3D rendering.  No idea why. They're just computers that are alright for video games and I-live-in-a-bubble-and-use-this-for-tumblr-and-netflix purposes, and they're not exactly cheap, either.  But I saw enough so that it makes me compelled to tell you, if there's some magical force that makes DV__s some kind of sell, just, don't fall for it, man.  Reason being, they are super breakable, the hinges wear out fast, and half the ones I saw had monitor burn.  I don't know if it was retarded college students abusing the laptop by handling it incorrectly or what, but ain't worth it, man.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 23, 2013)

HipsterCoyote said:


> I am so confused as to why you need a terabyte.   I have never in my computer-owning life filled up a hard drive past half full.  The only way I can think of how to do it is to just get a bunch of high-def movies on your hard drive.   Do you really need one?  Or am I just being an old man who doesn't realize they only do terabyte and up hard drives now or something?
> 
> 
> Oh, also, don't get an HP DV*. A DV6, a DV5, a DVwhatevertheycomein.   I say "don't" because I noticed those a lot around when I was studying 3D rendering.  No idea why. They're just computers that are alright for video games and I-live-in-a-bubble-and-use-this-for-tumblr-and-netflix purposes, and they're not exactly cheap, either.  But I saw enough so that it makes me compelled to tell you, if there's some magical force that makes DV__s some kind of sell, just, don't fall for it, man.  Reason being, they are super breakable, the hinges wear out fast, and half the ones I saw had monitor burn.  I don't know if it was retarded college students abusing the laptop by handling it incorrectly or what, but ain't worth it, man.



I don't, I really don't. At all. Just another thing I saw from research online - the primary list was just pulled from a bunch of different sources, so yeah, it's pretty off and all around the place. I never really use that much memory? And everyone once in a while I clear my stuff anyway. I've never come close to filling up my memory on any of my computers, and none of them have 1TB. I have some really old files, too.
Should've erased that.

In all honesty, I can't stand HP, all three of the HP's I've had were pretty gross. Well, all three of them are Pavilions (which are apparently known to overheat?) maybe I just have bad luck. But our printers are also HP printers and they are extremely annoying and difficult to work with, even while working with the Pavilions.
I don't know. It's probably just me.


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm with you on the general suckage of HP.  That is, unless it's a business-class laptop.  Seriously, you could use my EliteBook as an improvised weapon and then go take notes in class, it's 110% righteous.  I even named it Vlad.  

Accidental damage warranties are worth the money, in my opinion.  Not the stupid like dinky-ass warranty for a year because unless you're trying as hard as I do to break your laptop you aren't going to see any problems with it for 2 years reasonably.  The 3-year accidental damage warranty. You can get that to cover water damage.  And gravity tests.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 23, 2013)

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not alone.
Cute name, haha! I've actually never named any of my computers before, but I've considered it. Hehe.

I'm still considering the Elitebook. The specs seem to be pretty awesome, sounds reliable. It's just all these past experiences with Hewlett Packard that are making me think twice. -shudders-


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 23, 2013)

Well I'd say a Samsung is pretty good, at least they make all their parts. Lenovos can be good too (but I've had a really bad service depot nightmare -but I got a newer grade laptop out of it). The thing I did like about the Lenovo though is they had built the back knowing a consumer is likely to add their own Hard Drive and RAM upgrades. Past experience they've (laptop manufacturers)  made it where unscrewing it was very difficult. It also doesn't retain a lot of dust.


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 23, 2013)

Okay, sweet.  Here, let me try to seal the deal for you. You can get  this EliteBook with 16 GB of RAM and Windows 7 instead of 8, and this is  not a stab on Windows 8. I just am saying you can do it because it is an option on the customize-my-computer page I'm providing you a link to.  Honestly I  would recommend you just go with 7 if only because it's been out  longer, so if something "breaks" or something "wrong" happens then  you'll have a LOT of resources online and amongst friends to troubleshoot from.  I just  usually am not a fan of buying a new OS unless it's been out like, a  year, and it hasn't been a year.   If you'd rather go with 8, coo coo, that's available to you.   What's loltastic is you can just get the computer with FreeDOS and make  it $100 cheaper, then install whatever OS you want once you get it.   Just be aware that if you do choose that route you'll have to inform yourself about extra tech details. 

If you want to shop HP online,* forget *going  to HP dot com and instead follow my link to their  business   subdomain because you will not find it otherwise. Well, you would  eventually, but, you know. It's a pain in the ass.   You want  shopping1.hp.com, not www, not anything else. This subdomain is their  business stuff.  Anything that you get from shopping1 will be pretty  damn sweet, and anything you get from HP's other subdomains can go to  hell with the other shitty HP products that are total, plastic,  breakable shit with really stupid tech support and bad, bad  craftsmanship.  

I  put together you an i5 processor with a 1366 x 768, 15.6" screen (they  also come in 1600 x 900 for 50 dollars more), Windows 7 Professional  64bit, an NVIDIA FX 340M (this is not a fantastic graphics card but  since you're not doing 3D you don't need your computer to be a slave to  matrix multiplications so, this is just fine, unless you want to go play  video games with your graphics settings set to "fuck everything let's  do this"), 500 GB hard drive (I've never actually filled up more than  this in my life but I don't know about you), and a wireless LAN that  will pick up a signal off of a spider's ass in Argentina if my older one  is any indication of its quality, since I used to steal internet from  across a god damned shopping center on mine. Plus a 3-year accidental  damage warranty, and this came out to just under $2,500.  It was really  $2,330 but, tax, shipping, etc.  You can dicker with the options right  here.  BUY IT, DO IT NOW.

It won't be an IPS screen, unfortunately.  It will, howevre, be a matte LCD-LED with like a 80 degree viewing angle (total, so if you're looking at it 40 degrees from the vertical or more it will start to reverse the image).  Honestly, that's not so bad. And you will be able to tilt the lid of the laptop back past 180 degrees which is scandalous because that way you can adjust the laptop, not yourself or your environment, so that you can see it poifectly.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm so glad I never pay that much for a laptop.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 23, 2013)

Woaahhh, I love you dude! Finally I can see HP actually putting their shit to use. _This_ is quality. I'm actually really excited.
Unfortunately, let's not forget, my dad is the one buying this thing - I'm just a poor student with nothing to spend. I do have job(s) but they're very loose and internet-based (I barely even consider commissioning a job, and then the other thing is a webmaster occupation for a site that barely anyone even knows about, so). I'm going to try to get a job on campus too, but even that wouldn't prepare me for this.
If I actually had money, though, I'd seriously buy this thing right now. I'm about to puke rainbows, dude.

I'm going to keep this in mind though. Next time my dad brings up anything about getting my university computer I just might spend the next hour hyperventilating over this.
I don't know about you, but shiny, new electronics are always a thrill to me.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 23, 2013)

$2500 is too much for a laptop you're just going to do 2D art on though. You're better off paying less and getting the better art equipment.

Seriously, http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-NP550P5C-S02US-15-6-Inch-Laptop/dp/B00B588J7C/

Under $1000 and you can get the 2nd monitor like I advised, and have money to get an intuos5 with the price you're paying for 1HP. 

While Win 8 has its problems its still a better deal than paying that much for an overpriced laptop.

I also noticed that Wacom released a new driver Jun 18th so it probably is working on fixes with Win8


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 23, 2013)

I see. I really don't mind win8, that's not a problem.
What's turning me back is the HDD's rpm and the amount of RAM. Is the RAM configurable?

Maybe these specs aren't as important as I thought they'd be?


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 23, 2013)

RPM speed is a false economy unless you want to get a hybrid drive (and not defrag it) unless you're doing large backups a lot, loading times aren't as bad. A hybrid will help allocate common apps to the SLC and give you something of a boost as it learns which apps you use the most. If you purchase it, get an external case and put your old HDD in it either as a backup drive or format it and get more space as a storage drive in an external. http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Momentus-7200RPM-Hybrid-ST750LX003/dp/B00691WMJG

You can upgrade the RAM to 16gb on the Samsung.

A new computer is going to perform better old one in general when you start it up, it's prolonged use and bad housekeeping is when you start complaining about it.

If you do those upgrades which yes cost more of course when purchasing, you're still going to make out better than paying $2500

http://www.amazon.com/Asus-VS247H-P-24-Inch-Full-HD-LED-Lit/dp/B005BZNDS0 24" IPS monitor $150+


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 23, 2013)

Alright. Looks like a good deal.

Thanks for everyone's help. I'm not sure exactly when I'll be getting the new laptop, but I'll make sure to post it here. Should be sometime soon, though.


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 24, 2013)

Haah, sorry, I buy ridiculously expensive computers since I did rendering for like, Pixar-looking stuff and motion capture/tracking, et cetera, and then I don't like ever having to upgrade or re-purchase so I buy like, the ridiculousest thing I can find so that in 2 years it's still good.  You can still get stuff there for $500 and under, though, and don't forget that you can customize things on there.

Although honestly, even if your department requires a laptop at X recommended specs, what you _ought_ to do is talk to your dad not about buying a bitching laptop, but a bitching desktop and/or monitor set since you can go nuts with specs and pay not nearly as much because you're not trying to get it stuffed into a military-grade durable little brick of computing.  When you're in class you aren't going to be using your laptop to do any work, I promise.  You're going to use it to reddit and not pay attention. In fact, a great handful of computer science classes at A&M do not let you bring your laptop even though you're learning how to code...Because they expect you to pay attention and take damned notes.  I can only imagine the same there.  Even when the department says, "You must have a laptop," because so did they.

So, get a great desktop set up or keep the one you currently have, and get a cute little dinky laptop of the Wal-Mart variety that you can take notes on and not pay attention in class with, that you spent like $200 on and can throw in your (I'm assuming you are a girl) purse.

The specs really don't matter to that amount of hair splitting, no.    You really only want to care about RAM.  You aren't doing anything complicated.  You can do huge 600 DPI drawings on multiple layers measurable in feet on 12 GB of RAM and not really care about what the rest of the computer's all about so long as it has *a* graphics card, not an integrated one.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

My desktop is an icore-7 with 32gb of ram ( 2 SSDs since I got one for 60 and the other for 80 which is micro SSD) still came out cheaper than a 2500 laptop.


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## HipsterCoyote (Jun 24, 2013)

Yeah, see, get a desktop instead of a laptop so you can go ahead and have fun tweaking and twinking for the same thing at far less the cost and a much more upgradeable format.  You're going to be working on projects in your dorm/apartment or whatever anyway, so having an immobile workstation isn't going to kill you, and you can show people how big your nerd dick is for great justice.  If you get in trouble for not having a laptop (unlikely) say "fuck the police" and get something adorable for under 500 bucks from Fry's or NewEgg, or those mind-bogglingly tiny 200 dollar netbooks that exist solely to get lost in your laundry.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 24, 2013)

Haaaaah!! So many choices.
I really, really do love desktops more than laptops, but I'd also like it to be very mobile, even though I know I won't be using it in class very often, if ever. My dad is a super-stubborn strict kinda guy so the desktop is basically out of question. I can try, but I doubt it'll work out.
The laptop with extra RAM and a second monitor still sounds possible, though. My dad actually understands the whole concept of RAM, and getting extra gigs installed, so we could just find a nice little configurable samsung and have some extra gigs put into it. I'm more worried about getting the monitor. But if it's not going past $2,000 total I could see my dad actually doing this for me - it makes me feel bad but in the end he _does _want me to have everything I need.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

When I was in a place where a desktop was more difficult at the time, I bought a laptop for around $500 and put the money aside to build my desktop. I got a Computer monitor that was also an HDTV (before IPS monitors were more affordable) so the combination worked out ok till I was able to get the desktop. Now my old monitor is in the living room for my old console systems. (I still have a working Dreamcast  and PS2 ) I always have the mindset that if I'm going to spend money on electronics, will it have a singular purpose or will I be able to reuse parts of it later. I did actually mean for the monitor to eventually become a TV - but with internet I don't even watch regular TV anymore.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 24, 2013)

That's clever.
Hmm. I've never built a PC before.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 24, 2013)

kitsunekoneko said:


> That's clever.
> Hmm. I've never built a PC before.



I hadn't either. I've seen the guts of a PC prior, so it wasn't exactly foreign but only built my first a few years ago. It just took some Youtube videos (NewEgg also has some good ones to watch) and just ask friends what I should be looking for if I got "X" type of CPU.

Once you build one you feel much more empowered and less feeling that you're at the whims of a Geek Squad or computer repairmen. It can be intimidating at first, I'm not gonna lie. Scared to break something but once you do it you get the hang of it. There are times though if something does go wrong you may be tearing out your hair because it's the baby you build.

In my case, I was used to computer speaker beeps, so when I built my first one I plugged it into the monitor and no sound (seems places don't feel a need to add them to the motherboard or assume the tower/cpu case comes with one), everything was running but no signal to the monitor. So I was panicking. I had gone to a store that sold that damn component (like a 2-4 dollar speaker) I also got another graphics card in case it was that. I heard it beep which told me it booted fine, but no signal. It was then I realized because my monitor was a TV, I needed to switch the signal -.-;; Worked wonderfully.

I since rebuilt the system to the specs you see now and ended up saving money because I could re-use some components like the tower, and power supply as well as a hard drive for storage.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 24, 2013)

Sounds like a useful skill. Something I should definitely take a step forward on, I mean, I'm studying Computer Science too. I just know the basics.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 27, 2013)

So, if anyone is still looking at this thread, this is the laptop my dad is planning on getting me: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w530/
Looks like he's willing to order it off of the internet, and he wants one for himself, too (for business work) however I'm pretty sure this is quite a bit more than a need. Especially because he went through and added customization which nearly amounted up to $2,000. He insists that I get a 1TB hard drive. Couldn't argue him off of that, he was just so sure.
Like I said, my dad's a stubborn guy. Hah.

But the good thing is, I'm sure this computer will be able to get the job done. I'm going to get the monitor too. So now I need to look around for that.
I think it'd be a good idea to get a lenovo monitor if I'm getting a lenovo computer? I'll do some research.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 27, 2013)

Brand of monitor doesn't matter so much. It's just plug and play. Having a Quadro is actually pretty good, I use one for my desktop mainly for quality when using PS layers. 

But for an IPS monitor - http://amzn.com/B008DWITHI

Looking at the specs, the monitor I linked uses hdmi, and the proposed laptop takes mini dp - so get one of these - http://www.amazon.com/HDEÂ®-Mini-Display-Adapter-Cable/dp/B009K62HQ0/


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 27, 2013)

Yeah, the graphics card looks pretty awesome. It looks like I'd be able to play some games too, although I'm not much of a PC gamer.

Alright. Looks good. We won't be ordering the laptop for about 2 weeks or less? We're having a little vacation after next week. After that, we're getting the laptops. So we'll probably get the monitor around then too.
Thanks.


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## Deerhurst (Jun 27, 2013)

Look at Malibal and Sager. They are made by Clevo who also supplies Asus, old HPs ( the ones that were not utter crap ), Dell ( old ones, not modern crap ones ), Alienware ( before Dell bought and killed them ), Hypersonic and probably Falcon NW and others. 

I run a 2 year old Malibal which I paid $1200 for and it has:
A i7 2630QM 2.0GHz quad core
8GB RAM
500GB HDD and I bought a tray to put an HDD in the CD drive bay
GTX560m video card
15" 1080p 80% gamut display. 

They now offer a 90 or 95% gamut disply for the base machine. 
I dont do alot of graphic stuff and have been in the computer engineering ( embedded systems ) department for a couple years. 

Most computer engineering programs are very theory. Mine was more hands on. I found a faster CPU was nice for compiling code. My Pentium M 1.7GHz machine was doing of for a couple terms but when I get a Core 2 Duo machine I could really see a difference. 

My malibal has too much GPU for the battery. There is a very very noticeable difference with that 560m on battery vs plugged in for every day things. When It comes to Photoshop, SAI Paint tool, Adobe Premiere, ect its is almost mind boggling how much better it runs on the wall. My first laptop had a geForce 5200FX GO and my second had a 9800GS, the difference in things like photoshop is incredible. Just amazingly smoother, quicker, better over all for me. 

That IBM looks more suited to 3D modeling/CAD, especially with the quandro card. Good display and CPU options though. My GTX560m isnt the best at that sort of stuff since it is tailored as a gaming card where the quandro is tailored to scientific/engineering computing.

Just my $0.02 worth!


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 27, 2013)

You did read that the person already gave an update on what Laptop they will buy, right?

By the way OP, if he is going to spend on the thinkpad, see if he can add in the mSSD caching drive. It's worth the 40 bucks.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 27, 2013)

More news. He called lenovo during work, apparently. And he got a quote. I don't really know what to say about this. It seems fine, but the graphics card...?
Like I said, he's buying one for himself, and he also wants a docking station for his new business computer. I was able to convince him that I didn't need the docking station, so ignore that.







But in the end... I feel like something is wrong here.
Do I even need an express card slot? Huh.


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## Deerhurst (Jun 27, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> You did read that the person already gave an update on what Laptop they will buy, right?
> 
> By the way OP, if he is going to spend on the thinkpad, see if he can add in the mSSD caching drive. It's worth the 40 bucks.



OP said they wouldnt be purchasing for some time so I addressed a couple points and gave another option while also giving first hand experience with some of what they should expect studying CSET. IMHO the rest of the options were not worth it being as machine like HP have a reputation for being unreliable and expensive to repair. Ive worked in that field enough. 

IMHO, that IBM is poorly priced for the components/performance it will give. $1600 will make an excellent enthusiast machine from many of the companies labeled as "gaming". Even many parts of Hollywood and even Sony have used Alienware gaming computers for their graphic intensive works. 

The display shown in the OPs break down is not a high % gamut display such as what an artist would want so they must rely on an external monitor. That adds more cost. The Quandro is not optimized for rendering but for 2 and 3D solid modelling and the associated calculations. With an SSD doing things like disk defrags, lots of file writes, ect will eventually wear it out. Many SSDs now have mechanisms that reduce the wear. An SSD is, for our intents and purposes, a giant flash drive. This type of memory does have a finite amount of writes it can take though the number of writes is very very large. It is also quite expensive per GB. If one is planning on lots of write cycles and storing alot of data I would be looking at an HDD for bang for your buck. The SSD will be noticed at boot, when loading large files or programs. A fast, 7200RPM or faster, hard drive will feel like an SSD to most.

These are the available graphics devices for that IBM. 



NVIDIAÂ® QuadroÂ® K2000M 2GB VRAM 
NVIDIAÂ® QuadroÂ® K1000M 2GB VRAM 

I know I keep saying IBM and the machine says Lenovo. They are essentially the same thing, different logo. And IBM was the first with the Thinkpad and it has now trickled down to the Lenovo range of machines. Think of it like Dell and Alienware. Lenovo now owns part of IBM.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 27, 2013)

High Gamut isn't always necessary for doing art. There's only certain professionals that "must have" it, but you'll find a wide spectrum not caring about gamut as much - you limit to what colors you can use. And given there are billions it's not as serious as people think. IPS however is more reliable because color shifting is more aggravating an issue - This is why I recommended the external IPS - not for Gamut - otherwise I would have recommended something else - but color stability. 

OP - the graphics card - http://www.howtogeek.com/136123/htg-explains-what-you-need-to-know-about-nvidia-optimus/

It's very likely the father is pretty set on a name brand that carries itself back far. I mean we are talking about a 100 year old company. 

Lenovo is a bit different than the IBM of old since they're basically out from China.


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## Deerhurst (Jun 27, 2013)

Everything is from China these days. Clevo is out of Taiwan! 

I guess Im looking at it from my point of view where even for gaming I want a high gamut. True, there are many may other factors in a good apply. 

Optimus is pretty cool. Apple has shown us it does work ( very similar if not the same technology ) and Alienware has shown us how you can mess it up.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 27, 2013)

Lenovo products look very promising. And the graphics card seems to be pretty clever itself.
I'm considering having an HDD though. My dad was just super amazed by the whole "SSD's are faster than HDD's" he heard over the phone, and he seemed to completely forget about the 1TB he wanted me to get. Wants me to use the 3TB external HDD which sounds like a terrible idea, because it's just another example of wasted money (he wanted to use it to back up everyone's computer, which wasn't helpful anyway because it doesn't sync automatically, and everyone in my immediate family can't access it at the same time anyway! Dropbox storage is enough for me!)
I feel like I've talked about my dad more than the actual computer. Hm


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 28, 2013)

That's why I said you can get the traditional drive and just add the 40 dollar mSDD and it will cache the drive. 

A high Gamut makes things a bit prettier but may not be appropriate for certain gaming either.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jun 28, 2013)

Yeah, I'm going to try and get that mSSD added in there, with the 500GB HDD.


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## kitsunekoneko (Jul 22, 2013)

So...! This is an old thread now. But I received my laptop in the mail today and set it up right away.




On a side note, I'm gonna have to settle with my old monitor for now. It works fine, but I'll need to calibrate it again.










So it's a Lenovo ThinkPad T430s, apparently a model from last year. So far it's very fast and it works great! I have yet to see how well games can work with it.
It's hella ugly but that seems to be the price of all the stuff that goes into it. I don't really care.

Only one thing bothers me: getting used to the second screen. The resolution on the bigger monitor is a bit blurry, and the tablet is kinda awkwardly calibrated. So maybe I'll switch to one screen (the bigger one of course) when drawing... I'll look around.

A big thanks to everyone for helping me out! I found a great laptop and I'm sure it'll serve well.


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