# The Importance of 'The Hook'



## PheonixStar (Dec 14, 2009)

Lately, I've been talking to someone about 'The Hook' and I felt it might be a good post to put here, as well. 

First, what is 'The Hook'? Well, the hook is the beginning paragraphs of your story. It's that first (and usually only) chance you have to hook your reader to your story. Or, more importantly, to your main character.

Second, how do we create 'The Hook', and just how important is it, really?

Ah, now we get to the meat of the matter. The hook may well be the heart of the story. If you can't get the reader to read more than the beginning, it won't matter how great your story is. It won't matter how great your world is. 

It can be the end-all, be-all. 

Some readers, especially ones who have a loyalty to you, will read past a poor hook. Few readers will read past a bad hook. Even friends will procrastinate sometimes on reading past a bad (or nonexistent) hook.

So what's the secret of a good hook? I would say that the secret to a good hook is QUESTIONS. Create questions in your reader's mind... but don't feed them questions.

For example, this one tells the reader what to ask and is not really a good hook. It sort of insults the reader's intelligence:

[[Why was Sharl there? What was she going to do? Why was she so upset by the presence of the glowing red stone?

Sharl walked into the room and picked up the stone, staring at it for a moment. She would have to take it, even though she didn't want to.]]

This spoon-feeds the questions to the reader. It's not engaging. The reader doesn't get caught up in it, they feel nothing for Sharl, and at best may have a passing interest in why she took it, even though she didn't want to.

So let's retry this entry, and see if we can create the same questions, without asking them directly:

[[Sharl moved slowly into the room. Her red hair spilled down her back, glowing in the slight gloom. Had she realized it, she might have pulled the dark hood up over it. But as it was, the glimmering red hair reflected the pulsing, glowing, malignant light of the stone in the center of the room.

Sharl stumbled slightly as she eased towards the stone, ears straining in fear. Had she just heard a movement down the East tunnel? She wasn't sure. She tried not to wish she was somewhere else-- anywhere else.

She hadn't expected to stumble across the Esset Stone. But, she couldn't, in good conscience, just leave it there, now that she had found it. It was the single greatest danger to her people. And if she didn't take it now, no one else might ever get a chance. But her stomach curled in horror as she slowly reached out towards it. The glow from it bathed her hand in red, causing it to look like the crooked claw of an ancient crone.

It took all of Sharl's willpower to reach out and slowly pick up the malignant stone.]]

This creates questions for the reader:

Why is she there? How did she get there? How is the stone a threat to her people? Why does it glow?

Multiple things are there to wonder about, to ask about. The big question that remains in the reader's mind, is whether or not she'll escape with the stone. The reader is most likely to continue reading, at least until they find out whether or not she has escaped with the stone. 

Once I have the reader hooked, I now have opportunity to get them to care enough about the story and the character to continue reading, even past the critical question of "does she escape?"

At that point, I can begin to introduce things for the background of the story. I can embellish the world, embellish the character, and flesh out the story proper.

But I have to get the reader past the hump. They're either emotionally invested, a friend who'll read anyway, stubborn as hell... or gone.

So take a care that you don't bore the reader, if you want new readers. Take a care that you don't insult them by telling them what they're supposed to wonder about. Take a care that you ensure they're interested and invested in the story from the get-go.

As with everything, though... there are exceptions! Nothing in fiction writing is gospel. Consider first your personal niche's readership. At the end of the day, it's them you serve.


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## Scarborough (Dec 14, 2009)

Janet Burroway and Elizabeth Stuckey-French also have an interesting idea for "the hook."

They say that you should always start the story as late as possible. As in, don't start so early that you get really pointless background information, but don't start so late that the reader won't ever find out what's going on.

I tend to forget that stories need hooks, though. Thanks for posting. ^ ^''


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## Stratelier (Dec 14, 2009)

_In medias res_ is an established way for providing a hook, by starting your story "in the middle" of the story's events (hence the name, of course).  However it may occasionally overlap with the "bait & switch" hook, where the opening sequence starts "in the middle" of exciting events, but then the narrative shifts to the backstory leading up to said events.  Whether or not it is dangerous depends on how well the author uses it.


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## M. LeRenard (Dec 14, 2009)

I just wanted to add, sometimes something as simple as voice can be used as a hook.  Like if you pick up a book in the romance section of a store and the narrator talks like a garbage collector living in a bad neighborhood in Detroit, you'll probably want to read on just to find out what the author was thinking.  Of course, that can also be dangerous, since people tend to prefer things that are familiar.


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## Atrak (Dec 15, 2009)

M. Le Renard said:


> I just wanted to add, sometimes something as simple as voice can be used as a hook.  Like if you pick up a book in the romance section of a store and the narrator talks like a garbage collector living in a bad neighborhood in Detroit, you'll probably want to read on just to find out what the author was thinking.  Of course, that can also be dangerous, since people tend to prefer things that are familiar.



Who are you?!! I don't know you! That's it, I'm going to Stratadrake. *mumbles* Stranger...

Like that? ^^


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## ScottyDM (Dec 16, 2009)

PhoenixStar, good post.

I too have trouble thinking up examples on the fly, as your first seems to be. Your second example is much better written. When doing a simple comparison between the first and second, the point you were trying to make may be lost on some people if they look at the form, rather than the substance. Is your second example from a story you're working on?


Hook is critical, but it's not everything.

I have my perennial work-in-progress--a novel I started several years ago and have poked and prodded it ever since. My first draft of the first chapter starts in the male main character's (MMC's) point of view (POV), but later experimentation with readers outside the furry fandom showed me that it's critical to accurately describe nonhuman characters or people get funny ideas: Four legs or two? He may wear a tie, but is he wearing pants? Etc. So I switched my opening to put it in the POV of a secondary human character. This is what I came up with:





> Lacie Bramlett set the second sealed box of company records on top of the first. It was nearly three oâ€™clock when she left the clientâ€™s and she decided to avoid the Friday commute traffic and come straight home. Sheâ€™d take these into the office Saturday morning.
> 
> The doorbell rang and she locked the door of her home office before padding up to the front of the house in her stocking feet. She opened the door, then quickly glanced down. _What the heck?_
> 
> â€œHello. Iâ€™m here about the room for rent.â€


There is a hook--exactly who or what is inquiring about the room? But there are two huge problems. First, Lacie is a secondary character and opening in her POV gives the reader a false picture. A reader may emotionally invest in Lacie, then feel cheated when she later vanishes for chapter after chapter. Second, this first chapter is 4,300 words of setup and backstory. The novel doesn't gain traction until chapter 2.

In a rewrite I eliminated chapter 1 and beefed up chapter 2. This is my new opening and new hook.





> The place had been jumpinâ€™ since five-thirty and was just starting to slow down. Penny Akamatsu dabbed at her forehead with the sleeve of her uniform and picked up the two plates for table thirty-seven. She turned from the window and almost bumped into her boss, who did not look happy.
> 
> â€œMrs. Dai, what happened? Whatâ€™sâ€”â€
> 
> â€œThere is _huli-jing_ in front of restaurant. Make it go away before it curse us.â€


First, Penny is the female main character (FMC) so readers can safely invest their emotions into Penny's story without later feeling cheated. Second, this is where the real story starts. Third, there are more questions and a stronger hook with this opening: What the heck is a _huli-jing_? And, why does her boss Mrs. Dai expect Penny to solve this problem? The problem with this opening is that the hook is not what this story is about.

Bill Johnson has a concept he calls the story's promise. That is, what's the emotional payoff that the opening promises to the reader? Now Randy Ingermanson (the snowflake guy) says the primary reason readers read is for an emotional experience, and since I believe Randy I should probably pay attention to Bill. Bill talks about the story's promise in this 30-minute video on YouTube. And he talks about characterization and starting the story in the wrong place in this little video. And he has a book titled "A Story is a Promise". (Bill claims you can get it on Amazon, but the proper ISBN for his 3rd edition is 0-9673932-0-5 and the description on Amazon under that ISBN is for his first edition. I bought my copy off Bill's website.)

I had to think hard to discover the promise of my novel. Then I tried new openings to try to work that promise into the first few lines of my story. My solution is two openings: Two starts on my novel's first page.





> â€œLife is more than classes, research, and work. When will you take the time to discover love?â€
> 
> â€œNext summer. After I finish my bachelorâ€™s.â€ Inwardly Penny Akamatsu groaned. With a PhD in ethnobotany and a research project in the YucatÃ¡n jungle, even as a blind date, RenÃ©eâ€™s cousin sounded promising.
> 
> ...


It's now clear that Penny is conflicted, and the reader has a hint as to what they can expect from this novel. But the careful reader can also infer lots of things about Penny from these six paragraphs: Relationship status, motivation, interests, profession, approximate age, ethnicity, and from ethnicity her appearance. One can also infer that her boss is a bit of a tyrant (RenÃ©e's fear), her boss's ethnicity, and that her boss is superstitious and has her own fears. (Okay, unless you know what a _huli-jing_ is that last one is a stretch.)

I'm still not 100% pleased with my first chapter. The first scene is 1,300 words in Penny's POV. The second is 3,400 in the MMC's POV and in that scene he confides in his old college buddy about what he feels is his great failing and why, despite appearances of success, his life sucks. This is where the main plot of the story gains traction--on page 8 (my formatting puts about 250 words on a page). That's pretty far to go before the reader learns about the conflict that drives the story. FYI, the third and final scene is 1,100 words and back in Penny's POV.

I'm not sure how to fix this, or even if it needs fixing.


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## Kindar (Dec 16, 2009)

when it comes to me reading books, the "Hook" isn't in the first paragraph, or even o nthe pages of the book. it's on the back cover. the synopsis will do a lot more to get me to read a book since if THAT doesn't peek my curiosity I won't even open the book


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## AshleyAshes (Dec 16, 2009)

Kindar said:


> when it comes to me reading books, the "Hook" isn't in the first paragraph, or even o nthe pages of the book. it's on the back cover. the synopsis will do a lot more to get me to read a book since if THAT doesn't peek my curiosity I won't even open the book


 
A pretty and eye catching picture and a good title helps a lot too.


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## ScottyDM (Dec 16, 2009)

Kindar said:


> when it comes to me reading books, the "Hook" isn't in the first paragraph, or even o nthe pages of the book. it's on the back cover. the synopsis will do a lot more to get me to read a book since if THAT doesn't peek my curiosity I won't even open the book



That assumes you've picked up a professionally published book, or one that looks just like it. And I doubt you'd buy the book and take it home without at least sampling some of the author's writing.

Stuff on the back cover is called "back cover copy" not a synopsis, since a synopsis contains spoilers. Back cover copy is written by marketing types at the publisher's, not the author. Plus the marketing types rarely read the books but go by what the editor tells them is in the story (the editor has read it, several times). Or the editor will give them the author's synopsis to work off of.

So for professionally published novels the readers get: genre (where in the store), cover art, title, author's name, back cover copy, and the first few pages or perhaps a few pages out of the middle. For web-published novels (such as most of us here write) the reader gets: reputation of the website, title, author's name, and the first few pages, and that's usually it.

As an author trying to interest an agent or editor you get the cover letter, synopsis (with spoilers) both of which are usually only skimmed over, and the first few pages in which to impress the agent/editor. Some claim the first line had better grab, but I've heard most agents and editors will give a book a page or two--unless that first line really sucks. That also assumes the cover letter or synopsis didn't suck.

The opening of the story needs a hook.


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## PheonixStar (Dec 16, 2009)

Kindar said:


> when it comes to me reading books, the "Hook" isn't in the first paragraph, or even o nthe pages of the book. it's on the back cover. the synopsis will do a lot more to get me to read a book since if THAT doesn't peek my curiosity I won't even open the book



Yes, I understand. However, many a person will like all of that, but immediately lose interest once inside the opening lines. For example, I LOVE the idea of the Hobbit. But I just can't get past the sleeper beginning. Never have been able to. I HATE that guy's openings. He's BORING AS HELL with his beginnings. I don't have any idea how anyone EVER managed to actually read his books, his beginnings are THAT bad to me.

That's in spite of knowing that the books are great, loving the premise, loving the cover, loving the movies more than words can say...

But I can NOT get past those first boring, boring, boring, BORING pages.


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## PheonixStar (Dec 16, 2009)

ScottyDM said:


> PhoenixStar, good post.
> 
> ...snip for length...
> 
> Is your second example from a story you're working on?



Thank you, and no. It's clearly a decent hook though, it made you ask. 



> Hook is critical, but it's not everything.



Absolutely, and I hope I didn't make it sound like it's everything.



> Bill Johnson has a concept he calls the story's promise. That is, what's the emotional payoff that the opening promises to the reader?



I think that this can take longer than the hook. I've read that there are certain human experiences that people want to 'replicate' and 'overcome' within books.

Here's a simple example. A sense of belonging. Often people can relate to having no sense of belonging. So they wish to read about someone else experiencing this, as well, and by proxy, spend a while enjoying what it feels like to see that 'crisis' or personal pain resolved.

But most people unconsciously incorporate one of the universal experiences like that (loneliness, need to belong, fear of failure, problems with family, whatever) into their writings. Because they tend to write what they know, and we all know how these things feel.



> I'm not sure how to fix this, or even if it needs fixing.



The incorporation of some emotional responses can change everything in an opening section. Just as an example, and remember that I know NOTHING about your chars, so this is just off the cuff:



> â€œLife is more than classes, research, and work. When will you take the time to discover love?â€
> 
> â€œNext summer. After I finish my bachelorâ€™s.â€ Inwardly Penny Akamatsu groaned. With a PhD in ethnobotany and a research project in the YucatÃ¡n jungle, even as a blind date, RenÃ©eâ€™s cousin sounded promising. Unconsciously, Penny smoothed her mane back in a nervous gesture.
> 
> ...



If you're trying to give the promise of her finding true love, then I would flesh it out with a few more emotional type responses to events. 

However, in my personal experience, this can be put in over the space of several pages. Indeed, I'm not sure that I've ever bothered in any of my stories to focus on 'the promise.' I think that giving them questions is in and of itself, a sort of promise.

They want to know the answers to their questions, and I promise to give them one. Then to top that off, I give them the feelings of the characters. They can relate to those feelings, and it's this that begins to get them emotionally invested.

Here is an example from one of my most popular stories (the whole story is in my FA page, but it's adult content):



			
				When Orcs Cry Freedom said:
			
		

> There were few things in Azeroth that couldnâ€™t be Healed with magic. Infections of the blood stemming from untreated wounds were among them. She called herself a nurse, because she was one of the very, very few people on Azeroth who worked to nurse back to health, those who were afflicted with the various maladies that magic couldnâ€™t Heal.
> 
> The orc lying face down and chained to the bed in front of her was one such case. His back, covered in a latticework of scars and fresh whip marks bore signs of severe infection. What infuriated her the most about the situation was that many of the whip marks laid across his back were fresh, cutting into severely infected old wounds.
> 
> ...




So I suppose that the promise here is freedom from oppression. Facing prejudice, perhaps. But I had no focus on the "promise" when I wrote it... I was simply bringing forth the questions that I want the reader to think about. And the story is more of a romance than anything.


In the end, I think that if you present the questions for the reader, the promise will come out by itself. And if you use the questions theory, then you have bought yourself time in which to produce a promise.


So I definitely don't discount the theory of the promise at all. I think that you can buy yourself more time to deliver it, by creating questions in the reader's mind, though.


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## ScottyDM (Dec 16, 2009)

> > Hook is critical, but it's not everything.
> 
> 
> Absolutely, and I hope I didn't make it sound like it's everything.


I should have qualified that by saying that _in a story's opening_ hook is critical, but it's not everything. For example, starting your narrative where the engine of the story starts is critical... oh, and have a great hook too. If you take that second video link in my Bill Johnson paragraph (to the 7-minute video on YouTube) he talks about reading manuscripts where the first 40 pages are nothing more than filler.



> > Bill Johnson has a concept he calls the story's promise. That is, what's the emotional payoff that the opening promises to the reader?
> 
> 
> I think that this can take longer than the hook. I've read that there are certain human experiences that people want to 'replicate' and 'overcome' within books.


Exactly. And some authors can pull it off without conscious thought, but then others need to think about it so they can focus on what their story is about.

In his longer video (first link, above) Bill Johnson gives several examples where the author put something into their first paragraph that hinted at the promise of the story. It can come even before the first paragraph. The title _The Red Badge of Courage_ is a strong clue. And with a title like _The Devil Wears Prada_ the story has got to be about difficult people--genre (it's shelved with chick-lit in the store), cover art, and the back cover copy tell the female audience it's about an impossible boss. A lot of women have suffered under an impossible boss and so will relate to the main character.

Consider this awesome example from Scott Spencer's _Endless Love_.





> When I was seventeen and in full obedience to my heart's most urgent commands, I stepped far from the pathway of normal life and in a moment's time I ruined everything I loved...


Although this opening has a modern literary feel, and it starts at the end with the story as one giant flashback (starting in the second paragraph), this sentence fragment lays it all out--this character let obsession and passion destroy his life. The story is an train wreck of unbridled passion. So pull up your lawn chair, grab a tall one, and settle down for the blood, the guts, and the drama to unfold.



> The incorporation of some emotional responses can change everything in an opening section. Just as an example, and remember that I know NOTHING about your chars, so this is just off the cuff:
> 
> 
> > â€œLife is more than classes, research, and work. When will you take the time to discover love?â€
> ...


Hey, that's pretty good. Stylistically I'd change it a little. First, I like to keep my POV a little tighter so Penny wouldn't be aware of an unconscious action--I'd delete "unconsciouly" (plus I have too many "ly" adverbs as it is). Second, I'd call it "hair" since she's human (or 99.2% human if you believe those old Akamatsu family fairy tales).



> > The Fish Monger had been jumpinâ€™ since five-thirty and was just starting to slow down. Penny dabbed at her forehead with the sleeve of her uniform before she picked up the serving tray with two dinners for table thirty-seven. When she turned from staring pensively out the kitchen window she almost bumped into her boss, who did not look happy.
> >
> > â€œMrs. Dai! Whatâ€™sâ€”â€
> >
> > ...


One of the rules I follow, and only rarely break, I've broken here when I split Penny's dialog off from her previous paragraph. I did it to heighten the drama. The statement about the _huli-jing_ belongs to her boss Mrs. Dai. As your addition belongs to Penny, I've shrunk the part that didn't fit (kept it as reference) and merged it all with the rest Penny's paragraph.

While RenÃ©e may be frightened of Mrs. Dai (the old battle axe), Penny isn't. Penny has worked for her for 2 1/2 years and Mrs. Dai likes Penny, and even thinks of her as a daughter. Plus Penny has a tray full of food and the Fish Monger is an upscale restaurant so awesome service is a must. Penny will deliver the food while her boss hovers and frets and commits a slight _faux pas_ in front of the customers--which unfolds over the next two pages. After delivering the food and promising her customers it'll only be a minute or two, Penny goes to see what's gotten her boss is so worked up.

Also, Penny has turned down the offer of a blind date with RenÃ©e's cousin, even though he sounds like he might be the perfect man. She's busy.

To me it's a matter of trying to find the right balance between exposition and moving the story forward. I like your first addition but I'm not sure the second, which is focused on Mrs. Dai's insecurities, is necessary. Alex sounds awesome to Penny. He sounds like the perfect situation: If not as a lover, then as a coworker, or even a boss. She would _love_ to go to the YucatÃ¡n.

What's right with the first three paragraphs is they are what the story is about. Discovering love. Maybe not Penny discovering love, but the MMC discovering love. It's the heart of his story.

What's wrong with the first three paragraphs is they don't quite have the drama and tension of the second three. The hook is not as strong.

So I try to get through the first three with the greatest economy, but I still need to show the heart of the story. And I want to show that Penny has put her personal life on hold even when faced with someone who seems as tempting at RenÃ©e's cousin Alex.



> So I suppose that the promise here is freedom from oppression. Facing prejudice, perhaps. But I had no focus on the "promise" when I wrote it... I was simply bringing forth the questions that I want the reader to think about. And the story is more of a romance than anything.


If you don't know your story's promise, then how will the reader know? Unless you've accidentally stumbled across it without recognizing it. Don't dismiss Bill Johnson so quickly.



The promise of a story has been a slippery concept for me. It's not the premise. It's not the theme. It's something quite different.

I've been battling with a novella off and on (a different story than the one above). The problem is the nature of the story--it bounces and careens about like one of those little steel balls inside a pinball machine. After much thought I've discovered the story's theme, premise, and promise... but I now realize that there may be a second promise.

Theme: "In virtual reality, exactly where does virtual end and reality begin?"
Premise: "When you live from dream to dream you will fear the day when dreams must end."
Promise: "Growing up". But there's a subtext about "breaking addiction".

For the reader the nature of the world and the people in it are supposed to gradually unfold. And just when they gain an understanding of that world, I yank the rug out and make them start all over. Another way to look at the story is that it's all about "dreams". The story starts with dreams of the imagination, shifts to dreams of the subconscious, and ends up with dreams of the future and leaving childish things behind.

I tried to "pants it" (seat of the pants writing), but that was an utter failure.

The point is, what is the heart, the core of my story? And can I articulate that to the readers? Because the setting or the secondary characters sure won't tie anything together, and the MC has a tough time of being the story's anchor when he keeps shifting species.

So, in my opening and my hook, I need to articulate the anchor a reader can latch on to. I think my current opening does a good job.

Scotty


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## ScottyDM (Dec 16, 2009)

> There were few things in Azeroth that couldnâ€™t be Healed with magic. Infections of the blood stemming from untreated wounds were among them. She called herself a nurse, because she was one of the very, very few people on Azeroth who worked to nurse back to health, those who were afflicted with the various maladies that magic couldnâ€™t Heal.


The last sentence is a touch clumsy. I had to reread it to make sure I read it right the first time. Also, when I see an ordinary verb capitalized I think, "WTF?" Why do you capitalize "heal"? And stacking adjectives screams amateur author to me. Note, this paragraph belongs to the narrator.



> The orc lying face down and chained to the bed in front of her was one such case. His back, covered in a latticework of scars and fresh whip marks bore signs of severe infection. What infuriated her the most about the situation was that many of the whip marks laid across his back were fresh, cutting into severely infected old wounds.


Your second sentence contains a parenthetical phrase, but needs a second comma. Try: His back, covered in a latticework of scars and fresh whip marks, bore signs of severe infection. Note, this paragraph belongs to the narrator, but the third sentence is in the nurse's POV and belongs to her. Not bad, I'd let it stand this way.



> Livid, she whirled on the man who had brought her to this terrible place. â€œThis is not the kind of work I do! I absolutely will not save that man!â€ She stormed from the room. The orc in the other room lay near death, and she wanted nothing more than to let the poor, suffering creature finally escape into the safety of death.


Good. Note, this paragraph belongs to the nurse and is in her POV.



> â€œLady, you donâ€™t understand. If he dies, the whole camp will revolt. Weâ€™d lose them all. And if that orc could get up, heâ€™d happily rape and then strangle you. Heâ€™s no angel.â€ The soldier spat, stuffing his hands into his pockets and at least having the grace to look sheepish as she continued to glare at him.


Good. Note, this paragraph belongs to the soldier, and it's external so no head hopping here. The last sentence dances close to belonging to your nurse, but it's fine as is and I'd let it stand.



> â€œThe best thing that could happen is for them to rise up and free themselves,â€ she told him acidly. She got that look. Yes, the special look reserved for her kindâ€¦ the horrifying orc sympathizers. Clearly, he was displeased to realize she was one of â€˜thoseâ€™ people.


This paragraph fails on several levels: First, an "ly" adverb in a speech tag amounts to telling rather than showing and should be expunged from well-written modern fiction. Second, the paragraph starts out belonging to your nurse, but shifts to the soldier. A failure that has no place in any fiction. Third, the soldier's part is in his POV. That is you've internalized his feelings about orc sympathizers. Fourth, since the double quote is your primary quote then your scare quotes must be double quotes too (this is true in both American and British grammar). The only thing to use secondary quotes for is a quote within a quote.

The biggest problems are the second and third points. This paragraph must be split, and to avoid head hopping you must externalize your soldier's recognition and displeasure of your nurse's sympathies.



> Well, whatever happened, she would always feel that all people deserved to be free. She was, of course, helpless to create that situation, but she felt that way from the bottom of her heart. And the orc lying in the other room had only one chance at freedomâ€”the terrible infection on his back.


Good. Note, this paragraph belongs to your nurse and is deep into her POV.

Overall not bad. Except for that fifth paragraph. It needs work. Also you have too many "ly" adverbs and adjectives. Seven in six paragraphs so you need to work on that too. I used one ("only").

Scotty


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## PheonixStar (Dec 16, 2009)

I guess that's my big malfunction, lol. I have NO idea what the premise, theme, or promise is of any of my stories. 

I haven't ever written an outline. I've had vague notions of what my stories are going to be, but I really let them unfold quite organically. 

So I can't speak to 'the promise' any more than I have so far. I think the only conscious thing I do is The Hook. The rest of it's just story unfolding.

I can't imagine writing from an outline or even from anything more than the vague sense of what I expect the story to be (which it never ends up being).

So far, this has worked out amazingly well for me. But I think to a large degree, it's because of the way my brain/mind works (it's not normal, we'll just say, and leave it at that, lol).

I wasn't arguing against it by ANY means at all. Just to make that clear!


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## PheonixStar (Dec 16, 2009)

Um, thanks. I was posting it for 'The Hook' demonstration, not for a critique, lol.

But I suppose if I'm going to offer it as a demonstration of anything, I should edit extensively first.


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## Atrak (Dec 16, 2009)

PheonixStar said:


> Um, thanks. I was posting it for 'The Hook' demonstration, not for a critique, lol.
> 
> But I suppose if I'm going to offer it as a demonstration of anything, I should edit extensively first.



You posted it in the Writer's Bloc. Expect critiques ^^ .


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## PheonixStar (Dec 16, 2009)

Yeah, that's why I haven't posted anything in the critiques thread. Because I don't really want critiques, lol. When I'm feeling up to a critique, I'll write something I actually intend to sell, and buy the privilege of having someone tell me that I suck.


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## Atrak (Dec 17, 2009)

Oh, well. I accept paypal. Please feel free to pay me for critiques anytime ^^ .


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## ScottyDM (Dec 17, 2009)

PheonixStar said:


> I haven't ever written an outline. I've had vague notions of what my stories are going to be, but I really let them unfold quite organically.


Absolutely! There's more than one way to write a story and what works for one won't work for the other. But it's not about the process. It's about the end result.

I've successfully written one longish story by the seat of my pants, and it didn't suck too hard. My second attempt at "pantsing" a story was a complete failure. I've tried loose planning, micro planning, and a few things in between. What I've found is that each story is different so each requires a different approach.

For the story with Penny and her "_huli-jing_" (scare quotes because he really isn't a Chinese demon-fox sexual vampire), timing is everything. So I created a graphical time line: 5 1/2 months day-by-day and printed out it's 7 feet long. But each event is only a simple sentence or sentence fragment, so it's hardly a hyper-detailed plan. Just a hyper-timed plan. ;-) 

For my "dream" story where my MC has a disturbing tendency to shift species, sometimes at random, I found I needed to sit down and ask myself what the heck I was trying to write. Thus I needed to know my premise, theme, promise, and a few other things. But I've not felt the need for such deep analysis with other stories.

As an experiment I've even tried using project planning software (partly because I had it), which sucked as an exercise. Tried database software (because I could), which was a bit rigid. And a spreadsheet, which sucked me into a hyper-detailed plan that felt stifling.

Anyway, the point is there's no right or wrong approach in general, but as individuals somethings work better than others.




PheonixStar said:


> Um, thanks. I was posting it for 'The Hook' demonstration, not for a critique, lol.
> 
> But I suppose if I'm going to offer it as a demonstration of anything, I should edit extensively first.


I wasn't trying to beat you up. You offered a helpful suggestion and I was returning the favor. I could, and should, add a bit to my second paragraph to make it clear Penny is sacrificing a real opportunity when she declines her coworkers suggestion of a blind date. I need to finish editing that chapter. Perhaps tonight.

Scotty


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## Duality Jack (Dec 17, 2009)

The hook in any work (even getting a date) is your 1st impression without it you have nothing. Showing a taste of what you do best in a subtle way is what you gotta do. Imply the adventure that awaits and who will lead it.


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## HiveMindFury (Jan 2, 2010)

PheonixStar said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottyDM*
> 
> 
> ...



I've got to ask, any plans on making it into a story? I really want to read the rest!

And while I'm here, I know it's off-topic but how do you do stacked quotes properly? As you can see, my attempt failed


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## Atrak (Jan 2, 2010)

PheonixStar said:


> I guess that's my big malfunction, lol. I have NO idea what the premise, theme, or promise is of any of my stories.
> 
> I haven't ever written an outline. I've had vague notions of what my stories are going to be, but I really let them unfold quite organically.
> 
> ...



Heh heh. That's how I write my stories  . If I plan it too much, or even just think about it a lot, I'll lose interest in actually writing it.


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## M. LeRenard (Jan 3, 2010)

HiveMindFury said:


> And while I'm here, I know it's off-topic but how do you do stacked quotes properly? As you can see, my attempt failed



Nest the bracketed stuff:


> Blah wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rewriting by putting in asterisks so you can see it: 
[*quote]Blah wrote: [*quote]Blah.[*/quote][*/quote]
Remove the asterisks and there you have it.


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## Atrak (Jan 3, 2010)

M. Le Renard said:


> Nest the bracketed stuff:
> 
> 
> Rewriting by putting in asterisks so you can see it:
> ...




Cool, but is there a way to copy the quotes someone else has quoted, or do you have to just find the original post and copy it.


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## ScottyDM (Jan 3, 2010)

atrakaj said:


> Cool, but is there a way to copy the quotes someone else has quoted, or do you have to just find the original post and copy it.


Try removing the equals sign and the junk after it that the system inserts when doing an auto-quote. And then so folks will know who you've quoted I put the person's name before the [*QUOTE] tag (using Renard's * method) and maybe embolden it. Like so...

*atrakaj wrote:*


> Cool, but is there a way to copy the quotes someone else has quoted, or do you have to just find the original post and copy it.


Finally (and more painfully) you'll need to go back and grab the child quotes from earlier posts and do the same for them. And of course stack them all up inside each other.

You know, phpBB may be buggy and hack prone, but at least their auto-quote method doesn't suck as hard as vBulletin's does. Italicizing a block of quoted text is freakin' asanine!

Oh, and while we're wishing, how about bigger default text?

S~


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## Atrak (Jan 3, 2010)

> > > Scot said:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Try removing the equals sign and the junk after it that the system inserts when doing an auto-quote. And then so folks will know who you've quoted I put the person's name before the [*QUOTE] tag (using Renard's * method) and maybe embolden it. Like so...
> > > ...


Ah, so there is no way to get the quotes from the quoter's post. Ah well, there's always the multi-quote  .


Note: Don't worry, I won't always abuse quote like this. I'm just trying it out and having fun for a mo ^^ .


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## HiveMindFury (Jan 14, 2010)

*HiveMindFury* is saying:



> Thanks for the help guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## PheonixStar (Jan 14, 2010)

HiveMindFury said:


> I've got to ask, any plans on making it into a story? I really want to read the rest!
> 
> And while I'm here, I know it's off-topic but how do you do stacked quotes properly? As you can see, my attempt failed



I just copy and past whatever I want to nest quote.

As far as making it a story... I suppose I could. But the problem is, all my stories are always really long. I'm not one who can write a short story very well, lol.


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## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Jan 14, 2010)

PheonixStar said:


> Some readers, especially ones who have a loyalty to you, will read past a poor hook. Few readers will read past a bad hook.


 
Wow, that was some of the most wise words I have ever heard.


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 14, 2010)

PheonixStar said:


> Lately, I've been talking to someone about 'The Hook' and I felt it might be a good post to put here, as well.
> 
> First, what is 'The Hook'? Well, the hook is the beginning paragraphs of your story. It's that first (and usually only) chance you have to hook your reader to your story. Or, more importantly, to your main character.
> 
> ...




Very insightful. Your approach is both practical and intellectual. I was wondering if you could analyze my hook? The first words that are shared in my tale are, "My name is Frank...just Frank."


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 14, 2010)

I love this topic.

So much tips! I like!


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## PheonixStar (Jan 14, 2010)

Well, if that's your whole hook, it's mediocre, at best. I would need to see a few more paragraphs, really. There could be many reasons he's saying that. Like, maybe Frank just doesn't care for someone to know his last name. Maybe he doesn't have one. So it does create a single question, but it doesn't engage the emotions and hook curiosity in itself.

If the following paragraphs are good, then it could be a really fantastic hook.


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 14, 2010)

PheonixStar said:


> Well, if that's your whole hook, it's mediocre, at best. I would need to see a few more paragraphs, really. There could be many reasons he's saying that. Like, maybe Frank just doesn't care for someone to know his last name. Maybe he doesn't have one. So it does create a single question, but it doesn't engage the emotions and hook curiosity in itself.
> 
> If the following paragraphs are good, then it could be a really fantastic hook.




Yeah, I really didn't give you enough information lol Could I try that again? I have a whole excerpt dedicated to Frank's character.


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## PheonixStar (Jan 14, 2010)

Of course, if you wish.


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 14, 2010)

Alrighty~ Here we go.


       My name is Frank...just Frank. I live under the plate. The lower half of New York City. The year is 2050...2051? I can't remember. It's hard to keep track of time when you haven't seen any source of sunlight in twenty years. Ah, how rude of me. I'm sure you're wondering about all of the little details. What brought this "metal plate" about? What is your occupation? What happened to the world? Well, before I can tell you any of this, I have to start at the beginning--like all other stories. I'll start with my 'wonderful' childhood...

And this is where the story begins. =3


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## M. LeRenard (Jan 15, 2010)

I'll be cynical here, because I think this could work if you did if differently: it's a pretty generic opening.  In terms of style and in terms of content.  It's an attempt to bring the reader in by showing off how bitter and dark the main character and the setting are, but when it comes right down to it, it's just an obvious excuse to shove details into the narrative.  Sometimes telling works, but here I don't think it does so much.  I would prefer something more engrossing, more artful.
Comes off as a little pretentious, too (and I mean the real meaning of the word, in that it pretends a knowledge of what the reader wants and then tries to give it to him).  "I'm sure you're wondering about all of the little details."  Well, no, dear narrator, because you haven't given me any reason so far to care.  You've established your name and where you live, and that's about it.  Just because that happens to be in a bleak future doesn't mean I actually want to know any more than what you told me.  I've read a lot of stories about bleak futures, many not so different from what little you've presented here.  In fact, all I'm getting from this is an echo of Midgar from Final Fantasy 7.
So how would I suggest you change it to improve it....  Well, how about just jumping right into the setting, and assuming we already know everything we need to know?  Maybe that doesn't seem as safe, but actually, a little danger can give an opening like this a lot of life.  Instead of listing things about the character and the setting, then, like the narrator is really talking to someone who he knows is just reading a book, just start narrating like you've got half a book behind you already.  And that doesn't necessarily mean you should start in media res, as they say; you can do it from the beginning just as well.  Or in the format you've got right now, even.  Like this fellow is having a conversation in a bar with some stranger (who happens to be us), speaking to this person like this person lives in the same place, knows a lot of the same things.  That way, the story is immediately immersive, which is good, and doesn't immediately remind us that we're reading a book, which is not good.
Anyway, that's how I would do it.


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 15, 2010)

I appreciate your honesty and critique. In my defense, it has been over a year since I last worked on this opening. It does make me feel uncomfortable, I'll give you that. It needs tweaking, I know this. But jumping into the story like that isn't how I want to go about things. Frank's past must be shared first. It is one of the main points I want to make. Here, I'll post some of my later work:



         "Huer!" I screamed his name as I stumbled through the darkened subway tunnels. The action caused my body to convulse as blood erupted from my inner core. There wasn't much time left. I felt for the wall; vision was melting, thoughts were growing cold. I heard his breathing, smelt his cigarette riddled cloak, heard the scuffing of nervous feet. I reached into the darkness to my left and brought my father's knife to his throat.
        "C-c'mon Frank! Look at yourself! You're turning into one of those monsters above the plate!" My lips peeled back to reveal a baleful grin; eyes, I could feel my eyes widening and bulging from my skull. Hatred coursed through my veins, and fed my soul the blood that it so desired. "You fucking bastard..." I chuckled, " You were never going to help us in the first place!" Huer only moaned in horror as snot and tears swam through the skin-like ocean. 
         "Frank. Molly wasn't important. You were getting too attached to her--" I lost it. Limbs were torn, gore was thrown, screams were exchanged, and then silence ensued. My knees collided with the ground as fatigue crushed my heart in it's grip; pints of blood began to spill from my mouth. I felt woozy...but I had to get back to Molly! Once again, I was stumbling through the darkness chasing death. Time evaporated as I neared her fragile form. A gaping hole sat open in her stomach. Her black locks silhouetted her eyes, but her luscious lips beckoned to me. I stepped forward, blood still fresh on my own lips, and knelt at the angel's side. " I waited for you." she said quietly. " Thank you. " I replied with a croaky voice. She pulled at my face with her silky hands and applied a kiss to my cheek. I held her there; you could feel the ice settling in. "Please don't go," I whispered. "I'll eat you up. I love you so."
         A smile spread across her face as one last, dry giggle was given to the wind, " I love you too. " It was if the end of her sentence signaled for death to sweep her away on his cloudy chariot. Tears rolled down my cheeks and pelted her childish face. For the first time in my life...I was able to shed tears. Plural. 



                                     ************************************************************************************

         Out of the gloom I climbed, Molly in tow. The internal injury hindered my every step, but I could not let the angel die in vain.
      "Molly..." I stared into her vacant eyes, emotions teetering on the edge.
           The light had been cast now. All of the other members' motives were in plain sight, and behind them loomed the malicious Drec. The world rolled from palm to palm, threatening to barrel over into the darkness below. The drooping angel and I trudged through the darkened streets, shadows parading across our path. Muffled explosions cascaded across my ears, but the faint sound of a saxophone gave it a morbidly, happy tune. 
            A small light trickled from Dav's Bar, and I couldn't help but sigh in relief. The familiar bell jingled as Molly and I pushed through the dirt-stained, glass door. The jazzy tune evaporated from the air, and only a corpulent, blind black man resided in the dim, green limelight. 
      "I smell death on you, but it's different this time, isn't it Frank? " 
      "Dav?"
      "Hm?"
      "I may die tonight."
      "Are you afraid?"
      "No. I must be strong for her." I chuckled sadly, "She died with a smile on her lips."
            Dav's expression only sagged with grief as he reached for me. I grabbed the gnarled, calloused hand, and laid it on the angel's cold cheek.  
    Two droplets fell from beneath the man's cracked sunglasses, "I'm sorry."                 
    I laid Molly in an empty booth and proceeded to the bar. "How about some scotch?" the old man asked as he felt his way behind the bar counter.
   "It would be an honor to share it with a man like you." 
   A crinkled smirk appeared on his lips, "Don't try and flatter me, you old bastard."
   He supplied the scotch, I supplied the tale. "Organization Purity..." he mumbled in thought. 
   "Drec intends to overthrow the government Dav--" 
   "That's not why you're going and you know that!" 
    I only laughed his somber tone. " I can't fool you, can I? Alright. I'm going for her. I'm going for Molly."
           He only shook his head and turned away. " Hate will destroy you Frank, but I see that I cannot change your mind." The old man turned, a relic in his hand. "Take this. A storyteller like me doesn't need it. " 
    "What is it?" I asked, poking at the rusted device.
    "A revolver. I used it before the Great Catastrophe. It claimed the revenge that I sought, but it left me hallow and blind with grief." With that he dumped ten rusted bullets onto the bar.
   "Thank you, Dav."
   "No...thank you." 
            I grinned silently as I scooped the bullets from the sleek surface of the counter. "I'll watch over her for you." I nodded at the blind man and headed for the exit. As I opened the door, the bell caused beautiful words to pour from my chest. "I'll see you in the next life...when we are both cats." Dav only chuckled and resumed where he had left off on his saxophone. I listened to the tune one last time before stepping across the line that divided insanity and peace. 
            The streets were covered in corpses and rubble. Drec was wrong. Things hadn't changed. I took the fox mask from my waist and applied it to my face. Molly's mask dangled from the chain at my side. The cheery bunny dripped with irony. Six bullets were added to the rusted revolver before stepping onto the road that led to my inevitable death. The Slums looked no different since Drec's plan. No...there _was_ something amiss. Ah, the _size_ of the rubble. Boulder-like debris towered over the rotting mess before them, while rats swarmed the streets, indulging their simple selves. The bright street lamps only made the visual more gruesome.
            To the north, that's where I was headed. The central elevator rose from the ground like a beacon signaling hope--there was none. 
   Suddenly, giggles pelted me from the front and back, "We're really sorry Frank, but we have to kill you now," the silhouettes crooned playfully. 
            Hyena masks swam in the darkness, as knives glittered in small hands."Arschel and Ashle..." They only squealed in enjoyment at the acknowledgment; they were only kids after all. At one time there might have been room for them in my life, but now they were already good as dead.
            The pups drew inward--cartwheels, pirouettes and flourishes emanating childlike qualities. Father's knife bore its menacing teeth, and the shaft of Dav's gift circled to find a target. Arschel lunged at my backside, knife poised to kill. His giggles seemed to come from the the toothy, sadistic smile on his chest. I spun hastily and grabbed his arm--the giggles only multiplied. Ashle took his chance, my back the proper target.
            My mouth stretched open, teeth grinding with satisfaction. Arschel spun in my arms like a light paperweight. Flesh collided with flesh, and the sound of bones snapping resounded in the gloom. Arschel gripped his legs in pain, as shrieks and sobs of intimidation shook his now frail form.  Ashle lay face down on the dirtied, cracked pavement, still giggling at some untold joke. I took aim at the quaking pup. "No remorse. No mercy. " The relic recoiled, my ears rang, and the giggling was no more. Terror and screams replaced the pup's fun now. At a brisk trot, I approached the remaining twin. Lifting him by his throat, I slammed the sobbing Arschel against the wall. 
      "Where is he!?"
      "Central elevator!" he cried through shock.
              I tore the mask from his face and rammed the rusted revolver's barrel into his mouth. Two jade-like eyes greeted the fox. Messy red locks cradled his sweet head, and a sick grin split his face--stitches held the smile in place."
       "No remorse--"
       "No mercy." he finished. I inclined my head before firing.
               Blood enveloped my vision, but Arschel's struggling gurgles immediately told me that the bullet hadn't finished him. I wiped the thick liquid from my mask's eye sockets--Arschel's death-ridden smile greeted me. Gore dribbled from the pup's morbid grin, and his eyes contained a fox coated in shadow and blood. I fired again. The thick liquid crept down the relic's shaft with lethargy. The pup's eyes began to dim, but they didn't close--the fox continued to watch me. Its gaze balanced me on an invisible scale, and the shadows shuddered around its form. "Who are you? " I asked. A tear fell from the dim, stone-like pearls. "Who are you!?" The darkness threatened to dissipate, the barrel of Dav's gift eyed me in thought--a chilling scream echoed through the street...my scream.
               Arschel's body left my hand as I tossed the pup down beside his twin. "I am Frank. I am honesty." I didn't know what I was saying, but I felt that it had to be stated. The fox still resided in my mind's eye, its piercing, eyeless gaze weighing me upon that invisible scale. No. Drec. That was my goal. Revenge. The word cleansed my mind of any doubt or regret. I gathered the hyena masks and added them to my fast growing collection.
               The central elevator glittered in the artificial night, its lights beckoning to me--a moth to a flame, that's what I was. I pressed forward, father's knife and the rusted revolver dangling in my hands. Lox and Dvorjak...where did that come from? I had never thought of the deceased, until now. Dread clung to my stomach as memories began to flood my mind. Dancing with Molly in the Jazz bar, eating ice cream with Molly, caressing Molly's head as she slept on my lap--liquid dripped from my eyes. Tears...they were peculiar creatures.


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## PheonixStar (Jan 15, 2010)

FrankTheF0X said:


> Alrighty~ Here we go.
> 
> 
> My name is Frank...just Frank. I live under the plate. The lower half of New York City. The year is 2050...2051? I can't remember. It's hard to keep track of time when you haven't seen any source of sunlight in twenty years. Ah, how rude of me. I'm sure you're wondering about all of the little details. What brought this "metal plate" about? What is your occupation? What happened to the world? Well, before I can tell you any of this, I have to start at the beginning--like all other stories. I'll start with my 'wonderful' childhood...
> ...



I'd change it a bit. You are rather spoon-feeding the audience what questions you want them to end up with. Not really knowing your story or your style, let me see if I can help bring a bit more suspense to it, without giving the audience the questions I want them to have.

_________________________________




I've been living under the plate now for so long I don't even know what the date is. I think it's sometime around 2050 or 2051. But when you never see the sun, it's easy to lose track of time. Life gets lost in the darkness. Time becomes relative only to sleep. And sleep... well, sleep is constantly interrupted by danger.

Sometimes, life gets so strange under the plate that you barely remember your own name, though I know mine's Frank. Yeah, just Frank.

Then, of course, there's the plate. Always hangin' over you, almost like it follows you everywhere you go. Thanks to that acursed plate, I haven't seen sunlight in more than twenty years. Maybe I never will again.

Ah, yeah. The plate. The center of life down here in the Hell that Lower New York City has become. Or the center of death, depends on your perspective, I suppose.

Well, alrighty then, I'll tell you about the plate. But before we get to the beginning, we've got to go back to before the beginning. To my childhood, which seems to be almost a whole other life to me. Was I ever really that young?

Maybe my youth feels so foreign to me now because it was a time filled with sunshine. (etc.)



________________________________


As I say in the first post, don't hand them questions. Make them ask. Your post asks the reader to ask specific questions. You want to get them to ask for themselves. Bring in more emotion, too, I recommend. You want the whole thing to be more about connecting the reader to Frank emotionally.


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 15, 2010)

I can see what you're saying. Though, that isn't exactly how I envision Frank's "inner dialogue." As I stated Le Renard, it has been over a year since I last worked on this opening. Your critique is helpful. I'll be sure to find time to edit. Thanks for taking your to to cross-examine my writing.


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## PheonixStar (Jan 15, 2010)

Well, the point isn't to make it the same as what I just did, the point is to not give them questions by offering them up, but by creating them through events that make you go, "plate? what plate?"


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## Atrak (Jan 15, 2010)

Wow, a lot of new writers that joined in the new year  . Was last year's mass resolution to join FA this year? XD


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 15, 2010)

PheonixStar said:


> Well, the point isn't to make it the same as what I just did, the point is to not give them questions by offering them up, but by creating them through events that make you go, "plate? what plate?"




Which I was attempting to do. lol


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## PheonixStar (Jan 15, 2010)

FrankTheF0X said:


> Which I was attempting to do. lol


You tell us what to wonder about: I'm sure you're wondering about all of the little details. What brought this "metal plate" about? What is your occupation? What happened to the world?

That's not inviting us to wonder about these things, that's telling us what to wonder about. "You're supposed to be asking yourself the following questions now, from the tiny bit of information I've given you so far." 

You want to lead your reader to these questions, not give them the questions.

Really, pretty much, you're assuming that we're already interested in your story. You're assuming that we give a damn about Frank. But if I have any questions, it would be, "Why do I care what your name is? Why do I give a darn about plates or anything else?"

In other words, you already KNOW that your story is great and interesting and Frank is a fascinating character.

You've got about 30 seconds to get me to agree... without me knowing jack, diddly, nor squat about the story over all.

What I'm trying as courteously as I can to tell you is, your entry doesn't make me care about Frank. It doesn't invite me to be emotionally involved in his experience.

I don't care about Frank. You didn't engage me with him.

When I said I don't know anything about your story or whatnot... that's a clue. I had to re-write with emotion from your initial writing that pretty much has none.

What about the plate? Why should I care? Don't tell me to be curious about the details. I'm not. Don't tell me to wonder what happened to the world. Don't tell me to wonder about the plate.

MAKE ME.

Make me wonder about it. Make me curious about the plate. Why am I sitting here listening to some guy talk about himself? Because he's telling me to wonder about details? No. 

What your opening needs to be about is, What's my motivation to care enough about Frank to listen to a THING he has to say?

I'm trying to explain, there's a big difference between giving me questions on a silver platter, and making me ask them myself.

Gather my curiosity about Frank. The best way to do that is to get some emotional intensity.

Read again the example I gave in the first paragraph. People asked me if it's from an actual story. One even said, "I want to hear the rest of the story!"

Why? Did I tell them what to wonder? Did I tell them what to ask about, to worry about, to wonder about?

Nope. I created tension in them. I created curiosity. I created an emotional bond, IMMEDIATELY, with the main character.

Make me care about Frank. Don't assume I do, because I don't. You do, because he's your character. You do, because you know your story's good, interesting, and worth reading.

But before I read it, you have to give me a reason to. Telling me that I should have questions that I don't have, doesn't engage me. It makes me mentally answer, "No, actually, I wasn't all that curious."

Not because your story's bad or uninteresting. I don't know if it is or not. But to begin with, you've got to understand that getting people interested in "I" based viewpoints is an extra challenge to begin with. People are kinda egocentric.

So you've got dual challenges going on here, meaning that your opener has to be emotional and serious enough to really get people to care enough to read Frank's autobiography, since they don't know Frank from Adam.

It's not like you're writing Brad Pitt's autobiography and everyone's already interested.

Who the hell is Frank, and why do I give a damn? You can't just tell me "Frank's the guy living under the plate, and you should give a damn cause the story is cool."

So far as I can tell, your story is cool. You've got a cool writing style and the excerpt is pretty decent. I'd probably read the whole thing... but...

You've got to get me that far.

And the hook, that opener, is what will make or break my willingness to read past it.


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## M. LeRenard (Jan 15, 2010)

> Frank's past must be shared first.


Sure.  Don't misunderstand what I said. I don't mean 'jump right into the action'; I mean, jump right into the _setting_.  There's a big difference.
"Hey there.  My name's Frank.  No, just Frank.  Nice weather, right?  I know, that joke's getting old these days.  How long has it been, under this plate?  Well, what year is it, anyway... 2050, 2051, something like that.  You from out of town?  No?  Oh I see; you live in Queens.  Say... you seem like a nice guy.  You want to hear a story?  No, don't leave.  I'll even buy you a drink.  Now listen...."
That's obviously not the style you're going for, but hopefully you can see what I'm doing there nonetheless.  You give the character a personality right away, invite the reader into the world, while at the same time giving out those necessary details instead of just telling us "*This is what you need to know, dammit*."  (Although you can do it still much better than my rewrite did it; that still seems a little forced.  But you get the idea.)  And you can start at the beginning, with the origin story.
That's all I mean.  It just seems more inviting and interesting to me this way than... well, PheonixStar explained that complaint well enough.

So far as 'I wrote it over a year ago', that excuse doesn't work on this forum.  If that's the case, you should have edited it and gotten it up to speed before asking for opinions.


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 16, 2010)

OK, I tried to keep things I've read about here in mind for the first story I'm in the process of writing. By first story, I mean first story I've attempted to write this year - I've made progress in improving my writing via forum RP, but the farther I go the more I realize my english is nowhere near as good as I thought it was. So I'd like opinions on my writing, and whether this hook will draw attention, please. Thank you.

---
_[FONT=&quot]Blood.[/FONT]_[FONT=&quot] The bat began, knife drawn. _The essence which all crave. For it is the true elixir of life. People cherish it, cradle it, fondle itâ€¦fight over it, fight for it, fight to spill it. This elixir is the very thing that keeps us all alive, but it is the very thing we spill â€“ it is a tool for ultimate destruction. _He traced the knife, pushing past fur, hovering over tender skin. The cold steel made the cream [/FONT][FONT=&quot]coloured[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lop gasp as it pressed against her. _In my armsâ€¦it is the tool for creation._ _Your bloodâ€¦your childâ€™s blood can be used to give life to my mistress._ He whispered to her ears, tenderly and softly. The alluring voice calmed her, whose only response was a nod. Her breathing slowed. She took one last glance in front to look at her mate, the tawny furred lapin simply returning her gaze with his own red stare. His face showed no sadness, though his eyes only could conceal so much. She brought one paw to her womb, where her unborn child still slept, so blissfully unaware. Perhaps a life like this was not meant to be for him. Perhaps so, but she prayed. She prayed silently, that this child would live, and grow to be the one to change Flederheim, the one home she ever knew. [/FONT]

_[FONT=&quot]Blutregen, the knife that has been passed down to the heirs of each generationâ€¦[/FONT]_ [FONT=&quot] the bat paused as he looked upon his reflection and the tender face of the lop. _Shall be the tool to return life! To give life to her for one final night, so that I may have an heir. _He looked upon it with ambivalence. Mixed emotions between anger, joy, and sorrow flashed quickly as he held the knife like it was all he held dear. _The very tool that cursed us all to spend our nights here, in this cursed land known as Der Nebel Wald..._ he paused, raising the knife into the air. _And so shall my line continue! _He plunged the blade into the heart of the resting rabbit, who only gasped but a wisp of air before shutting her eyes. The room lay silent, and her mate simply stood, his eyes unmoving from her body. The room remained in its quiet state as the master removed his bloodied edge. The bat pressed his palm against the gaping wound, feeling its lifeless beat. So deathly still, yet it still lingered with life; for it was blood that pooled around it, and blood is nothing but the elixir of life. [/FONT]

   [FONT=&quot]The golden silence of the room was broken, when muffled mewling came from the womb of the dead mother. The bat only turned one eye to his servant.[/FONT]
   [FONT=&quot]â€œGustav, I believe that you have a son.â€

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Thank you for reading, and I appreciate any comments made on this prologue.
[/FONT]


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## HidesHisFace (Jan 16, 2010)

Thats a good opening, I think - its interesting, dynamic, makes the reader (at least me) want to know something more, read the rest of the story. 
However, it lacks details - and I love details but here, in this opening I do not really know where the characters are or what do they look like. Still, it is pretty well done.

In fact I like slow, detailed openings describing as many thinks as possible, slowly but effectively creating an atmosphere of a scene. In my own writings I seemingly assume that reader know something about my universe, then I uncover more and more details, facts etc. gradually in a natural way. For example - when character is looking at a sculpture showing mythological scene I like to uncover the whole myth. I hope it makes it easier for readers to jump into my universe and relate to the characters.

Here is an example - fragment (because whole thing is long as hell) of an opening of my first translated story:
"Early morning. First rays of the sun fell through the upper windows to the big, round room, lightening it faintly. After about an hour the room was fully lightened showing it's whole majesty. Round shape, twelve windows surmounted by archs - placed on western and eastern sides in two lines per side, with three windows in each. The whole was surmounted by domed vault decorated with beautiful frescoes. Walls were coated with red silk simply flowing to the carpeting made of the same material. In northern part of the room, precisely opposite to the door lied bed made of dark wood hidden under a canopy. To the left of the bed stood a small table. There were quite a few thick books with leather covers on them. A little further, at the wall was a large wardrobe. It's construction was light and it had glossy fittings. Right under western windows a small altar with a small cabinet for sacrificial gear had its place. Throughout this beautifully decorated place a completely motionless individual lying under quilt was not really visible.

Finally, a single sun ray stroke into the eyelid of the sleeper. Suddenly, a harmony of the room was ruined by virtually chaotic movement. The individual opened his eyes and turned away from insistent sun rays. Few minutes passed. The awakened slowly moved his right leg from under a quilt and put two toes on silk carpeting. A moment after the other foot joined to the first. The sleepy one got up and lazily minced to the center of the room. He stood perfectly in the middle, turned toward the door straightened up. He spread his shoulders and hissed. All scales on his back and arms shook, muscles of tail and fingers tensed. He snorted, relaxed and moved - a little faster this time - towards the wardrobe. With neat movement he drew from it the modest, white coat, then threw it on himself and walked to the altar. He knelt down i front of it, placed the right hands fingertips on his forehead, left hand on his chest and tail on heel of his right foot. He contemplated in this way for some time. After morning prayer he stood up and left the bedroom and closed the door behing him. He walked a long, cool and dark corridor toward the large door made of dark wood. He opened the door and entered the round shaped, bright room, in the middle of which was big cavity filled with crystal clear water. He dropped the coat and looked at mirror-like surface of the water. "I am truly worthy to be called Lord Gahir" - he said impassively, because he was right. He was magnificent, perfect in every way. He was nearly seven feet tall, taller than most of his people, blood-red scales on the back - every single one healthy and shiny and smooth skin in front only highlighted his majesty. He was creature of mighty posture, wide chest, tremendous arms and legs powerful as foundations of the temple, bu also light and shapely, supported only on four toes. His face, lofty and beautiful almost always gifted his callers a calm, wise and fierce look at the same time. Four horns, fancifully curved toward the back with horn-rimmed scales resembling feathers and covering his ears adorned his head. Even momentary nudity does not lessen his seriousness and dignity, when he was flexing himself narcissistically before the water. "

Oh, forgive me typos and some grammar errors - thats a translation - original is written in polish, my native language


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks for the tip. Last time I tried to describe with detail though, I ended up making the whole introduction drag on.

I went for a rather mysterious-esque introduction with few details given, with what comes after that revealing more detail - that's what I plan. Right now all that we know about the characters are just that there was a bat, two rabbits and a baby...but I see that I could add a little more detail, mainly to certain facts that were the main focus of the whole first section; the dagger, and possibly the atmosphere they were in. I lacked an atmospheric description of the room, I notice now. I wanted it to be vague, but I also should add details to help readers picture a general idea of what's happening in the room...

Cool, more brainstorming. Thanks a lot, and I appreciate any further criticism.


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## PheonixStar (Jan 16, 2010)

I think the hook is fine. You definitely bring up questions, and you leave the reader wondering. I don't necessarily agree that it needs more detail. Everyone writes differently, and while I do tend to bring in more detail also, I don't bring in anything close to what HidesHisFace does. I did find his to be a bit dragging. I found yours, honestly, to be a bit difficult and confusing, though. 

Yes, it left me questions, but it was (for me) somewhat laborious to read. That could be because I'm just not generally a fan of the style of writing you have (because I find it difficult to read). I think you may get some better replies from folks who enjoy that sort of writing/reading. I do think that some added paragraph breaks might make it a bit easier (especially online). But that's a technical criticism, not a 'hook' criticism.

It definitely leaves the questions, as is very important, so from that standpoint, I think you've mastered it.


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks. I'll work on it some more as soon as I grab a couple more criticism from some others.

Difficult and confusing? In what way? Not a very clear image? The progress of the paragraph not worded correctly in a better order? I think that may be the case. Still, thanks for your input.


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## PheonixStar (Jan 16, 2010)

I think there are some odd turns of phrase that made me have to stop and backtrack and re-read. Plus, I can't tell if he's speaking aloud, or thinking? Sometimes it could be either one. Was he whispering what is in italics? Or just murmuring comforting nonsense?


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 16, 2010)

Alright, I'll try and see what happens when I replace italics with quotes instead. The thing about writing in quotes, I keep getting mixed views on how each new sentence should be on a new line, or how there shouldn't be a long speech in a single paragraph.

Thoughts?


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## PheonixStar (Jan 16, 2010)

Well, I generally try to create a new paragraph when the person changes perspective. 

So, your first paragraph might go like this instead:

_[FONT=&quot]Blood.[/FONT]_[FONT=&quot] The bat began, knife drawn. _The essence which all crave. For it is the true elixir of life. People cherish it, cradle it, fondle itâ€¦fight over it, fight for it, fight to spill it. This elixir is the very thing that keeps us all alive, but it is the very thing we spill â€“ it is a tool for ultimate destruction. _

[here, he changes his focus from the blood, to the lop] He traced the knife, pushing past fur, hovering over tender skin. The cold steel made the cream [/FONT][FONT=&quot]coloured[/FONT][FONT=&quot] lop gasp as it pressed against her. [Now, he's directly addressing her, not philosophizing anymore]_

In my armsâ€¦it is the tool for creation._ _Your bloodâ€¦your childâ€™s blood can be used to give life to my mistress._ He whispered to her ears, tenderly and softly. 

[now you've moved to her perspective-- she's calmed] The alluring voice calmed her, whose only response was a nod. Her breathing slowed. She took one last glance in front to look at her mate, the tawny furred lapin simply returning her gaze with his own red stare. His face showed no sadness, though his eyes only could conceal so much. She brought one paw to her womb, where her unborn child still slept, so blissfully unaware. 

[now it's her, she's thinking about/addressing the idea of her child] Perhaps a life like this was not meant to be for him. Perhaps so, but she prayed. She prayed silently, that this child would live, and grow to be the one to change Flederheim, the one home she ever knew. [/FONT]


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 16, 2010)

Hm. I'll keep that in mind (how many times have I said that?)

I just kind of feel weird if a paragraph is only 3 lines long, though.


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## PheonixStar (Jan 16, 2010)

Rainwhisker said:


> Hm. I'll keep that in mind (how many times have I said that?)
> 
> I just kind of feel weird if a paragraph is only 3 lines long, though.



Well, no offense, but that's something you'll definitely need to get over. 

Some paragraphs can be only a sentence, especially if they are dialogue.

Paragraphs are less about length, and more about perspective changes. In particular, online it's especially important to keep paragraphs reasonably small. Due to differences between books and online, you'll lose people a lot faster online with larger paragraphs.

Especially if you have large sections of large paragraphs. Part of the flow of a story is knowing that sometimes it's good to have denser sections. But you have to give the reader mental breaks by bringing in sections of dialogue that create a lot of short, not so dense paragraphs.

It's like a wave. You want it to ebb and flow from larger paragraphs to smaller. Then back to larger. Ad nauseum. Otherwise people find it too much work to focus and do the work of reading.


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## Rainwhisker (Jan 16, 2010)

That's one way to look at it I guess; I'll look into this insight some more.

But first I need sleep, thanks again for the advice.


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## FrankTheF0X (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks for being real with me Le Renard and Pheonix.


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