# Videogame culture and Rape Culture



## CrazyLee (Jun 28, 2012)

A friend of mine on FB posted about Penny Arcade's latest video game,  and implored people not to buy it, because the PA guys are assholes. The  reason she felt this way is because of the dickwolves comic that created a lot of controversy 2 years ago.

First  off, I will agree that the way PA handled the situation was pretty  shitty. Not surprising since the comic thrives on being edgy and is  written by your typical immature gamer type.

But what bothers me  is the fact that the comic itself was so offensive. I guess, if you were  raped and read it, I could understand. However, even non-rape victims  seemed bothered by it. To me, the comic is making more fun of the fact  that the hero in this is only saving the number of slaves he needs to  complete the quest, rather than doing the right thing and saving them  all. The fact that rape is mentioned is to make light of how horrible  the slaves have it. Somewhat tasteless yes, but I don't see how horrible  it is.

Which brings me to my first point. Why is it that only  the rape joke that causes such a stir? What about all the times that  comic makes fun of pedophilia? Since pedophilia is actually rape, people  should be up in arms about pedo jokes as well, and yet I don't see a  lot of bitching about that like people bitch about rape jokes.

Even  better, what about jokes about inmates being raped in prison? People  joke about that all the time, and yet I don't see anyone being horribly  offended or shitting themselves. Is it only offensive if it happens to  WOMEN? If it happens to a man it's funny as shit?

As someone who  thinks that some offensive humor can be amusing, does that make me a  rape supporter if I like a tasteless joke about rape but personally  think rape is horrible? What jokes are good and which ones are bad?  Should I no longer make dead baby jokes? Pedobear jokes? Blonde jokes?  Should I tip-toe around afraid of offending everyone because I happen to  like some edgy humor?

Or is it possible that maybe some people  let themselves get too offended and refuse to look at things in an  objective way, rather looking at everything from a biased lens of "I'm a  victim and EVERYTHING in the world is against me".


I'd also  mention that as I'm reading about this controversy, I'm bothered by the  term "Rape Culture" which seems to imply that everything in our culture,  EVERYTHING, condones rape. The use of the word "Rape culture" seems to assume that the entirety of western culture condones and allows rape, and that all men have a rape mentality. I have a hard time seeing this "rape culture". Maybe it's because I'm male and white, but to assume that all of American and western culture is a rape culture, that rape is accepted and trivilized, would be to ignore the fact that rape is illegal and often harshly punished, and in general is condemed by society. While it is true that some elements of our society still have a sexist and misogynistic attitude, I wouldn't call our society a rape culture. To me a rape culture is third-world countries where women are treated like cattle and where rape is all but acceptable, and the victim is often blamed.

Maybe I'm just disturbed by many more radical feminist bloggers out there that  seem to insinuate that most men are a part of the rape culture, and  that if I don't agree with them I'm a part of the rape culture too. I'm bothered by the idea that I would be considered a part of rape culture, because I like a dirty joke, or watch porn, or play a video game with a girl in skimpy clothing.  Me,  someone who is against rape against women, rape against men, and even  rape against prisoners. Me, who thinks the media, video games, anime  sexualizes women too much. Me, who is so angry about articles about women being raped in Afghanistan and then blamed that I want to chop the rapists and enablers in half with a blunt axe.


Also,  on another thought, I notice a lot of female bloggers bothered by using  the word rape in sentences like "you got raped" in a video game, or  "That team raped the crap out of the other one". According to the dictionary, 'rape' can also be used to mean "to destroy or plunder" inanimate objects.


> an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.


So the word's being used properly and I'm not exactly seeing the problem.


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## KigRatel (Jun 28, 2012)

Humanity in general sexualizes things too much. I would've thought we've evolved past that by now.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 28, 2012)

People _really_ get all bothered about fiction like this? There's far too much wrong with the real world to give a monkey's about ficticious ones- perhaps that's actually one of the things wrong with the world. 

Commenting on rape culture, bertrand russel said there is more unwanted sex in marriage than prostitution, so perhaps our cultures do teater on the edge of systematic sexual abuse, but the drop in social stigmatism on divorces should eleviate that at least a little, so there's a brighter outlook even if you do consider marriage a system by which males sexually oppress females into saying 'I do' more than they'd rather.

@Kigratel, our closest genetic relative, the bonobo, is one of the most sexually premiscuous creatures on earth- a trait they evolved because it suited them better to resolve conflict through love than war, unlike their neighbouring chimpanzee species which uses violence instead. 

I'd say the evolution of a sexual society is a good thing, and that the truly redundant traits we have are violence- in short 'make love not war'.


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## CrazyLee (Jun 28, 2012)

I would also like to say that I'm probably horribly biased on all of this being A) Male, B) white, C) straight, D) not a rape victim. But I do know that there is quite a bit of sexism that still exists even in western society, and I'm glad when people condemn it like it should be.



KigRatel said:


> Humanity in general sexualizes things too much. I would've thought we've evolved past that by now.



that's because sex sells. now shut up and enjoy the giant boobs and tight thongs. :V


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## Bark (Jun 28, 2012)

CrazyLee said:


> Which brings me to my first point. Why is it that only  the rape joke that causes such a stir? What about all the times that  comic makes fun of pedophilia? Since pedophilia is actually rape, people should be up in arms about pedo jokes as well, and yet I don't see a  lot of bitching about that like people bitch about rape jokes.




That definition bothers me. Pedophilia =/= rape. Wiki tells me that: The _ICD-10 defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age."

_Not all pedophiles rape or even touch children. 



:v I'll return with an actual response to the bulk of your post shortly.


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## CrazyLee (Jun 28, 2012)

Unzipped Zebra said:


> That definition bothers me. Pedophilia =/= rape. Wiki tells me that: The _ICD-10 defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age."
> 
> _Not all pedophiles rape or even touch children.



Okay, so pedophiles aren't rapists if they haven't done anything to a child. However, the act of touching a child is sometimes brushed off as something else which it should be considered rape. An individual who did not give consent who is being touched in a sexual way is considered rape. Children cannot give consent.


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## CannonFodder (Jun 28, 2012)

Well that's one game to scratch off buying buying from a steam sale.


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## Conker (Jun 28, 2012)

Rape is a terrible word that represents a terrible act. I prefer the term "fuckprank." 

Also, that PA comic was funny and people are too fucking sensitive.


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## Vaelarsa (Jun 28, 2012)

I think people just whine too goddamned much.
There's this growing mentality, nowadays, that it is the obligation of the rest of the world to pamper a person's own sensitivity. 

I'm not going to go up and bitch out... say... Family Guy for showing domestic abuse between parents, even though that shit really fucked with me as a kid and still does sometimes.
It's not their responsibility. It's mine.


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## Fallowfox (Jun 28, 2012)

Ohno a rape joke! People are actually affected by rape in real life! *continues to make deadbaby jokes*

If we're pedantic enough to get on moral high grounds over jokes, why do so many of us show nothing but apathy to real world problems like new malaria strains or the plight of an amazonian tribe whose forest is logged? Be honest now, most of us don't even feel anything when we read about these tragedies anymore- how injust it is we invest our moral efforts in comics.


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## CrazyLee (Jun 28, 2012)

Vaelarsa said:


> I'm not going to go up and bitch out... say... Family Guy for showing domestic abuse between parents, even though that shit really fucked with me as a kid and still does sometimes.
> It's not their responsibility. It's mine.


I remember not liking the one domestic abuse episode they did not because I was offended by it but because I didn't find it very funny, but then Family Guy's been getting stale lately. But I do believe quite a few people were offended by it.
I have a feeling that those people offended by it WEREN'T abuse survivors, whereas I am. Am I wrong for not being offended by it either?


A prime example of the kind of "rape joke" I'm talking about, for context, is this that Liz posted in the GTW thread:





Quite a few people might scream and rant that this image justifies or trivializes rape. Those who don't know me might think that I have a rape mentality because I like the image.

But I like the image because of the way I joke about everything that pisses me off. I make jokes about horrible things, maybe because I'm desensitized, but also to prevent myself from going on murderous rampages.

The above image is a way to bring to light victim blaming in a strange and humorous way. The only people who take that picture seriously are the kinds who blame women for rape anyway and are such assholes there's no point in educating them otherwise.


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## Iudicium_86 (Jun 28, 2012)

Just a video comparing the approach and reactions of Rape vs. Murder in games for the sake of discourse and perspective. 

Also in the words of the great George Carlin. "Rape can be funny" 

I agree, rape is a tragic and terrible thing and shouldn't ever be promoted/condoned just as with plenty of other inhumane acts like torture, murder, genocide, war, etc.
But I will also say I'm the kind of person that doesn't think anything is _sacred_ from humor and getting a joke from.


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## Ikrit (Jun 28, 2012)

wait

there is a rape culture?

is it kinda like the BDSM culture?


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## Lobar (Jun 28, 2012)

CrazyLee said:


> Which brings me to my first point. Why is it that only  the rape joke that causes such a stir? What about all the times that  comic makes fun of pedophilia? Since pedophilia is actually rape, people  should be up in arms about pedo jokes as well, and yet I don't see a  lot of bitching about that like people bitch about rape jokes.
> 
> Even  better, what about jokes about inmates being raped in prison? People  joke about that all the time, and yet I don't see anyone being horribly  offended or shitting themselves. Is it only offensive if it happens to  WOMEN? If it happens to a man it's funny as shit?



Those aren't any better.  For any of those, it'd be a good idea to at least preface them with a trigger warning.



CrazyLee said:


> As someone who  thinks that some offensive humor can be amusing, does that make me a  rape supporter if I like a tasteless joke about rape but personally  think rape is horrible? What jokes are good and which ones are bad?  Should I no longer make dead baby jokes? Pedobear jokes? Blonde jokes?  Should I tip-toe around afraid of offending everyone because I happen to  like some edgy humor?



There's nothing inherently wrong with finding any joke funny, but I think it's important to mind the settings in which you tell them.  I enjoy off-color, socially irresponsible humor as much as the next jerk on the internet, but only because I _know_ the people I'm sharing it with don't actually hold such views and won't be hurt by it.  A racist joke told by an actual racist ceases to be amusing.



CrazyLee said:


> I'd also  mention that as I'm reading about this controversy, I'm bothered by the  term "Rape Culture" which seems to imply that everything in our culture,  EVERYTHING, condones rape. The use of the word "Rape culture" seems to assume that the entirety of western culture condones and allows rape, and that all men have a rape mentality. I have a hard time seeing this "rape culture". Maybe it's because I'm male and white, but to assume that all of American and western culture is a rape culture, that rape is accepted and trivilized, would be to ignore the fact that rape is illegal and often harshly punished, and in general is condemed by society. While it is true that some elements of our society still have a sexist and misogynistic attitude, I wouldn't call our society a rape culture. To me a rape culture is third-world countries where women are treated like cattle and where rape is all but acceptable, and the victim is often blamed.



You're strawmanning a bit here, it doesn't imply any such thing.  In America we also have a Christian culture, but certainly not every last thing about America supports or should support Christianity, and not all Americans hold a Christian mentality.

Rape doesn't get as harshly punished as you think, either.  It's estimated that only 5% of rapists will ever serve a single day in jail, and as of 1998 the expected prison time served for a rapist was about 4 months.  Meanwhile the cost of reporting the rape for the victim is having to repeated relive the incident throughout drawn-out criminal proceedings, while the support they need likely falls away from them as their reputation is dragged through the mud.



CrazyLee said:


> Maybe I'm just disturbed by many more radical feminist bloggers out there that  seem to insinuate that most men are a part of the rape culture, and  that if I don't agree with them I'm a part of the rape culture too. I'm bothered by the idea that I would be considered a part of rape culture, because I like a dirty joke, or watch porn, or play a video game with a girl in skimpy clothing.  Me,  someone who is against rape against women, rape against men, and even  rape against prisoners. Me, who thinks the media, video games, anime  sexualizes women too much. Me, who is so angry about articles about women being raped in Afghanistan and then blamed that I want to chop the rapists and enablers in half with a blunt axe.



One can be opposed to something and still unwittingly enable it through ignorance.  Don't assume you can automatically understand the perspective of a rape victim, and try listening to what they actually have to say beyond looking for arguments to shoot them down with.



CrazyLee said:


> Also,  on another thought, I notice a lot of female bloggers bothered by using  the word rape in sentences like "you got raped" in a video game, or  "That team raped the crap out of the other one". According to the dictionary, 'rape' can also be used to mean "to destroy or plunder" inanimate objects.
> 
> So the word's being used properly and I'm not exactly seeing the problem.



Arguments relying on a dictionary definition are usually pretty weak; this one is no exception.


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## Bark (Jun 28, 2012)

Ikrit said:


> wait
> 
> there is a rape culture?
> 
> is it kinda like the BDSM culture?



No, no it is not.


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 28, 2012)

I dunno how people one would think that "rape that involves a woman" is more offensive than X.There were some pretty offensive statements during the cub debate years back about how child rape is worse. So if you grew up a bit and got tits or grew pubes, the act of rape is less heinous? It was pretty interesting because to me rape is a horrible act that can affect any gender - yet you had people arguing "some innocence of children" angle that some how if you had hormones you're less deserving.

Just to say it was pretty fucked up logic.

So no, I don't see this comparison. And rape jokes have been about and sometimes friends and I make them. Not everyone is up in arms.


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## Lobar (Jun 28, 2012)

Also extremely relevant: The absolute shitfest that has ensued following the announcement of a "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" project on Kickstarter.

edit:





> The intimidation and harassment effort has included a torrent of misogyny and hate speech on my YouTube video, repeated vandalizing of the Wikipedia page about me, organized efforts to flag my YouTube videos as "terrorism", as well as many threatening messages sent through Twitter, Facebook, Kickstarter, email and my own website.  These messages and comments have included everything from the typical sandwich and kitchen "jokes" to threats of violence, death, sexual assault and rape.  All that plus an organized attempt to report this project to Kickstarter and get it banned or defunded.


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## CannonFodder (Jun 28, 2012)

Lobar said:


> Also extremely relevant: The absolute shitfest that has ensued following the announcement of a "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" project on Kickstarter.


Stay classy gamers.


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## Judge Spear (Jun 29, 2012)

Reminds me of what this guy had to say on the Sandusky case. Don't click if you don't like loud, weird, vulgar atheists.

But, I don't think besides the video I should go to deep on how I feel on this. Waaaay to sensitive of a case. :I
I do side with you, though. This kind of double standard shit does bring my high viscosity blood to a fucking boil.


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## Dokid (Jun 29, 2012)

I just wanted to add that rape from a woman onto a man is just as bad as a man raping a woman or child or anything. It's bad no matter what. Something like you personal space and what happens to your body should not be forced on anyone.


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## Zuckerdachs (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm really glad this thread's been made, because now I can make a running list of who's a fucking douchebag.


Edit: You know what? I'll tell you why murder and pedophilia jokes aren't looked down on as much.

It's PROBABLY because nobody ever blames the child or murder victim for not being careful enough. It's PROBABLY because nobody ever tells the child or murder victim's family to stop whining. It's PROBABLY because nobody ever makes someone feel guilty for being the victim of those crimes. It's PROBABLY because nobody ever shames them into not telling someone who can help. It's PROBABLY because pedophiles and murderers are prosecuted with impunity and have to deal with their crimes for the rest of their lives.

So shut the fuck up and stop acting like you're better and cooler than everyone else just because you have a hip and -edgy- sense of humor.


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## Aleu (Jun 29, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> I'm really glad this thread's been made, because now I can make a running list of who's a fucking douchebag.
> 
> 
> Edit: You know what? I'll tell you why murder and pedophilia jokes aren't looked down on as much.
> ...


That's all a bunch of bullshit. I remember there was a 13 year old boy that was raped/molested at a local church (not catholic mind you) and because it was male/male rape, a few people blamed the boy for being "too fucking queer and deserved it".
Also, the case where the child has been raised in an abusive environment who ended up beating his younger brother (and ended up killing him). The comments? "TAKE THE ANIMAL OUT BACK AND SHOOT IT"
Kid is like..12/13 years old.

Tell me more about how no one blames these victims.


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## Zuckerdachs (Jun 29, 2012)

Aleu said:


> That's all a bunch of bullshit. I remember there was a 13 year old boy that was raped/molested at a local church (not catholic mind you) and because it was male/male rape, a few people blamed the boy for being "too fucking queer and deserved it".
> Also, the case where the child has been raised in an abusive environment who ended up beating his younger brother (and ended up killing him). The comments? "TAKE THE ANIMAL OUT BACK AND SHOOT IT"
> Kid is like..12/13 years old.
> 
> Tell me more about how no one blames these victims.




That's pretty much the single most extreme example someone could have given me. Let's not conflate the predictable homophobic actions of a group of religious nutjobs with systematic discrimination. Thanks for trying though.


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## Aleu (Jun 29, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> That's pretty much the single most extreme example someone could have given me. Let's not conflate the predictable homophobic actions of a group of religious nutjobs with systematic discrimination. Thanks for trying though.



Nice ignoring my second example :V

The point is, IT DOES HAPPEN. So your point of "no one blames x victims" is bullshit. Hell, people are blaming Trayvon Martin for being shot and have been. No one blames the murder victim my ass.


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## Ozriel (Jun 29, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> That's pretty much the single most extreme example someone could have given me. Let's not conflate the predictable homophobic actions of a group of religious nutjobs with systematic discrimination. Thanks for trying though.



I think you are ignoring the point. What Aleu is pointing out is the fact that people blame the victims for what happened to them instead of the criminal that committed the crime.


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## Zuckerdachs (Jun 29, 2012)

No. Zimmerman is claiming it wasn't murder in the first place because, according to him, what he did was self defense. Next?


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## Aleu (Jun 29, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> No. Zimmerman is claiming it wasn't murder in the first place because, according to him, what he did was self defense. Next?



...I'm not talking about Zimmerman's claims. I'm talking about other people saying that Trayvon deserved to be shot because he was a hoodlum who smoked pot and wore a hoodie. Just fucking admit you're wrong already. Christ. Enough with this backpedaling and deflecting.


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## Fay V (Jun 29, 2012)

there is a rape culture. It's not saying everyone everywhere agrees that it's totally fine to go out and violently rape people, but obviously you are very biased to not see how badly these jokes will affect people. 

For instance, the recent AC problem where a girl was sexually harassed at AC by a stranger. When she came forward to deal with it she was harassed and basically told she deserved it. Do you realize how terrifying that is? rape and misogyny have become jokes, a running gag for people and god help anyone that has an issue with it. If a girl doesn't like kitchen jokes she's just a bitch, not someone legitimately frustrated with hearing it thirty times a day. Yes to a certain extent people are too uptight. I didn't personally mind the dickwolves comic, I thought they were pointing out how brutal it was, but at the same time there are too many people that don't know where the joke ends. It's funny to slap a girl's ass, or demean her, or joke about how women are dumb bitches that belong in the kitchen but you've never had the experience of having to constantly fight that. Having to work to be treated like an equal. 

Rape can be funny, but most of the time people are not thoughtful comedians, they are thoughtless jackasses that make light of a serious issue, and when it comes down to it they don't give a shit .They join in making women feel like shit because it's edgy and funny. They join in making fun of victims because they lost note of where the line was.


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## Xipoid (Jun 29, 2012)

I personally don't see anything wrong with the comic itself. It was using a hyperbole to really outline the disparity in the moral dilemmas and resolutions presented in a video game than real life. I understand that some individuals took offense to it, but I believe they were taking things out of context and making a fuss about it. It was there to be egregiously bad for the sake of being egregiously bad, which adds to the weight of the punchline.


As for rape culture and just misogyny in general, it's really kind of sad. People act in very negative ways to one another for some of the dumbest reasons they can come up with. I personally feel that it all really boils down to our innate "us v. them" mentality that is ubiquitous to all humanity, in part or whole. There's just a human need to divide a collection into groups. If more of us were aware of this, it could go a very long way.


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## Elim Garak (Jun 29, 2012)

Offensive games go : 
Postal series. 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Massacre:_The_Game_of_Modern_Religious_Genocide 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Columbine_Massacre_RPG!! 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing_(video_game) 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KZ_Manager

You could count JFK reloaded but it's a good simulator, you have to do it like Oswald did,  however I love shooting the first lady's hat off or laugh when my bullet bounced of JFK's head and hit an officer in the crotch.


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## Ricky (Jun 29, 2012)

Fay V said:


> there is a rape culture.



Really?  Do they have conventions and stuff?

I wanna check that shit out


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## CrazyLee (Jun 29, 2012)

Fay V said:


> there is a rape culture.



Don't they have a disinfectant for that? :V


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## Ricky (Jun 29, 2012)

CrazyLee said:


> Don't they have a disinfectant for that? :V



yes


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## LuchadoreBob (Jun 30, 2012)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1053782.111246.284627124897857&type=1&theater

That's what people getting offended for others is like to me.


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## CannonFodder (Jun 30, 2012)

LuchadoreBob said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1053782.111246.284627124897857&type=1&theater
> That's what people getting offended for others is like to me.


....Look I'm not saying that political correctness should have free reign unrestrained, HOWEVER there is something wrong with someone pschologically if they find such things as rape by itself to be funny without any other underlying punchlines or jokes.

I'm not saying I'm being a humor police, BUT if someone has the mentality of "haha lol they got raped XD" something is wrong with them.

Before I get bitched out for this.  What I mean is that by itself it shouldn't be funny.  What I mean can be explained a indirect analogy.  Let's say person A wants to get a laugh out of person B, so person A just says the word "n*****" and then they both begin laughing uncontrolably.  Wouldn't you say there is something wrong with them?  Now let's instead it was person A wanting to get a laugh out of person B, so person A just says the word "rape" and then they both begin laughing uncontrolably.  Regardless of intent something is wrong with the individual.

Obviously you can make a lowbrow joke about anything, BUT it requires a punchline.  You can't make a joke that is supposed to be funny cause you think it's funny cause you say it's funny.


Short version is that jokes require a punchline, if you want to use lowbrow humor then don't make the deplorable action the punchline.  That's like how people were trying to force a meme named, "trayvoning" after the florida shooting victim where the person forcing the meme would lay facing down wearing a hoddie and a bag of skittles in their hands, cause they found murder by itself to be a punchline for jokes.


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## Rilvor (Jun 30, 2012)

I see not listening to each other is on the menu again.

People making the jokes need to understand tactfulness, they need to have a presence of mind and empathy.

People who dislike such jokes also need to understand tactfulness, they need to have a presence of mind as well.

Don't repeatedly tell jokes to people who do not appreciate them. However, neither should you blow up in someone's face because you did not appreciate a joke.

This may be too much emotional stability and tactfulness to ask for, I guess.

Edit: That being said I have never liked it in the way gamers use it within games, particularly when said games are competitive. It is crude and boorish, and speaks strongly of weakness in mind.

Edit2: Cannonfodder, your examples are flawed as the punchline you seem to be missing is an _implied punchline_ that is understood by both people. I think the point you are trying to make would be better served with a different example.


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## CannonFodder (Jun 30, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> Edit2: Cannonfodder, your examples are flawed as the punchline you seem to be missing is an _implied punchline_ that is understood by both people. I think the point you are trying to make would be better served with a different example.


I know I was giving a exaggerated example to point out how not humerous jokes about rape often are and how often times like you said "speaks strongly of weakness in mind".


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## Cyanide_tiger (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm not sure if anyone has posted it, but I feel like this is relevent to some degree. Enjoy.


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## KigRatel (Jun 30, 2012)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has posted it, but I feel like this is relevent to some degree. Enjoy.



Yay, I'm not a rape supporter!


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## Term_the_Schmuck (Jun 30, 2012)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has posted it, but I feel like this is relevent to some degree. Enjoy.



That link had me until it said anyone who frames porn under their first amendment rights, watches porn, and specifically has or sees porn depicting women as suddenly making them a rape supporter. 

Kinda frames the whole thing as someone who lets a personal grudge get the better of their understand on everyone's rights. 

As for the "rape culture" in nerd culture is say it absolutely exists given the misogynistic, racist, and homophobic tendencies present therein. Spending five minutes on XBOX LIVE shows you as much. Our terminology is geared towards violence and making light of the term "rape". 

But it's a problem that extends to both genders for similar reasons. Namely that women will often not report because of the kind I trials and tribulations that try have to put themselves through to try and get someone convicted of doing what they did, as was seen most recently in NYC in a case whee a cop was acquitted of raping a woman only later for his guilt to get the better of him when he later confessed to the crime and turned himself in. 

Men meanwhile don't report rape because of the stigma surrounding that sort of claim and the belief held by someone that men are incapable of being raped unless done so by another man. Men raped by a woman garners praise as opposed to concern because it assumes that having sex for the man is always something that they want instead of the possibility that it was forced onto them.  

This is the rape culture people are speaking of: the maintaining of gender roles in the specific conversation of sex and violence instead of lookin at things on a case-by-case basis in order to maintain some firm grasp over how the world works while maintaining their own personal level of privilege.


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## Tao (Jun 30, 2012)

On the topic of the OP, the weirdos that make such a big deal out of the Penny Arcade comic were either looking for their 15 minutes of fame or mentally unstable. Course, anyone who doesn't side with them gets blasted by "You're not a rape victim, you don't know how it feels!" I'm a rape victim and I couldn't care less about Penny Arcade's comic. =\


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## Brazen (Jun 30, 2012)

What if I can demonstrate how rape can be funny? Give me a moment.


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## UnburntDaenerys (Jun 30, 2012)

Rape culture explained in one video.


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## Iudicium_86 (Jun 30, 2012)

Now I'll never end up in a fancy pie


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## Heliophobic (Jul 2, 2012)

It's as if this is the first time anyone's ever made an offensive joke on the internet.

Holy shit.


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## foxmusk (Jul 2, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> I'm really glad this thread's been made, because now I can make a running list of who's a fucking douchebag.
> 
> 
> Edit: You know what? I'll tell you why murder and pedophilia jokes aren't looked down on as much.
> ...



this, exactly. it has nothing to do with having a "dark" sense of humor, it has to do with having a fucked up sense of humor that rape culture desensitized you into having. people laugh at things they're comfortable at laughing at. that's where we get a lot of "crossing the line" sorts of things (which i almost never see happen anymore tbh), because it's crossed a boundary and made people stop feeling safe. the fact that we can mention rape in a light-hearted way and have people laugh at it shows that rape culture definitely exists and it's definitely still happening.

but ofc any men's rights activist/anti "radical feminism" guy is gonna shoot me down because they NEED to be able to find humor in something like this.


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## CrazyLee (Jul 2, 2012)

Cyanide_tiger said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has posted it, but I feel like this is relevent to some degree. Enjoy.



Oh sweet god, someone linked to Eve Bit First?

You do realize that woman hates all men, thinks all men need to be castrated, thinks that all men are rapists waiting to happen, and is just a crazy lesbian bitch. And the fact is, she has no real excuse for all her hate. She was never molested or raped or abused, and I know rape and molestation victims that have half the hate she has.

I really need to reply to the rest of this thread sometime.


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## Lobar (Jul 3, 2012)

CrazyLee said:


> Oh sweet god, someone linked to Eve Bit First?
> 
> You do realize that woman hates all men, thinks all men need to be castrated, thinks that all men are rapists waiting to happen, and is just a crazy lesbian bitch. And the fact is, she has no real excuse for all her hate. She was never molested or raped or abused, and I know rape and molestation victims that have half the hate she has.
> 
> I really need to reply to the rest of this thread sometime.



I've never actually met a feminist that agrees with that blogpost.  The only time I ever see it linked is by people essentially trying to strawman feminism as a whole.


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## Rilvor (Jul 3, 2012)

Spits said:


> people laugh at things they're comfortable at laughing at.



Oh dear. I laughed quite heartily at intentionally comedic violence in several shows, plays, and movies.

I suppose this means I am comfortable with pain and anguish brought to others by violence now.

Funnily enough, I abhor violence. I'm so confused!


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## foxmusk (Jul 3, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> Oh dear. I laughed quite heartily at intentionally comedic violence in several shows, plays, and movies.
> 
> I suppose this means I am comfortable with pain and anguish brought to others by violence now.
> 
> Funnily enough, I abhor violence. I'm so confused!



you can hate something but still be comfortable laughing at it outside of a real situation. it doesn't necessarily mean you'd be comfortable if it happened in real life and there are definitely exceptions to what i said, but overall there is definite desensitization to awful things, and it's most obviously shown by people being more and more okay with laughing at those sorts of things. it's...kinda not something you can just disregard as a whole just because YOU'RE different.


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## Rilvor (Jul 3, 2012)

Spits said:


> you can hate something but still be comfortable laughing at it outside of a real situation. it doesn't necessarily mean you'd be comfortable if it happened in real life and there are definitely exceptions to what i said, but overall there is definite desensitization to awful things, and it's most obviously shown by people being more and more okay with laughing at those sorts of things. it's...kinda not something you can just disregard as a whole just because YOU'RE different.



You know what's really disturbing?

How lightly we treat the subject of death.

Does one stop to think of the hundreds of theoretical consciousnesses that ended when slicing through a video game? The last thoughts of imaginary lives ending? The last moments of agony and regret? Usually not. The concept is horrifying.

But it is also make-believe.

Fascinating, no?


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## Gucci Mane (Jul 3, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> Fascinating, no?



no


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## Butters Shikkon (Jul 4, 2012)

Gucci Mane said:


> no



*My God*, this post was quite informative and fascinating... >:v
Anywho, I think this link's:http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=65d956b58785ef9fd27b896d25c9e1ba&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.furaffinity.net%2Fthreads%2F121372-Videogame-culture-and-Rape-Culture&v=1&libid=1341379198240&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.penny-arcade.com%2Fcomic%2F2010%2F8%2F11%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.furaffinity.net%2Fthreads%2F121372-Videogame-culture-and-Rape-Culture%2Fpage3&title=Videogame%20culture%20and%20Rape%20Culture&txt=dickwolves%20comic&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13413793909167 punchline was more the selfishness and apathy the wolf character has towards the suffering of the slavedude. We're intended to laugh at his indifference, not embrace it. As for the "rape" culture thing. Language changes all the time. The f-slur for gays is no longer just a bunch of sticks, and some ppl will argue that the definition of the n-word is that of an ignorant person. Personally, I think gamers today mean it as a version of "pwned" or something. Personally, I'm just waiting for when the "I just _totally_ molested and tortured your autistic child" thing becomes a part of gamer slang. Sure it's distasteful, why wouldn't it be? I miss when the majority of gamers weren't wannabe macho grown men with way too much time on their hands. Give me a great old school ps1 game and i'll be happy for days.


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## Rilvor (Jul 4, 2012)

Butterflygoddess16 said:


> *My God*, this post was quite informative and fascinating... >:v
> Anywho, I think this link's:http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=65d956b58785ef9fd27b896d25c9e1ba&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.furaffinity.net%2Fthreads%2F121372-Videogame-culture-and-Rape-Culture&v=1&libid=1341379198240&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.penny-arcade.com%2Fcomic%2F2010%2F8%2F11%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.furaffinity.net%2Fthreads%2F121372-Videogame-culture-and-Rape-Culture%2Fpage3&title=Videogame%20culture%20and%20Rape%20Culture&txt=dickwolves%20comic&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13413793909167 punchline was more the selfishness and apathy the wolf character has towards the suffering of the slavedude. We're intended to laugh at his indifference, not embrace it. As for the "rape" culture thing. Language changes all the time. The f-slur for gays is no longer just a bunch of sticks, and some ppl will argue that the definition of the n-word is that of an ignorant person. Personally, I think gamers today mean it as a version of "pwned" or something. Personally, I'm just waiting for when the "I just _totally_ molested and tortured your autistic child" thing becomes a part of gamer slang. Sure it's distasteful, why wouldn't it be? I miss when the majority of gamers weren't wannabe macho grown men with way too much time on their hands. Give me a great old school ps1 game and i'll be happy for days.



Yes, the joke many missed was that in-game avatars are unintentionally callous and indifferent for the sake of a rigid quest system. This is from MMOs where your character is quested with saving "x" NPCs, where said NPCs will have more than "x" number or quickly respawn for the sake of not having players competing over the NPCs just to complete the quest, forcing you to leave NPCs behind. It is nothing to do with anything else. Merely a jab at the absurdity of the static MMO environment.

I've already had my say on the dialogue of gamers. Be the difference you want to see in games. Everyone appreciates the well-spoken.


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## foxmusk (Jul 4, 2012)

Rilvor said:


> You know what's really disturbing?
> 
> How lightly we treat the subject of death.
> 
> ...



do you even think about what you say.
notice the lack of question mark. because it's not a question. i know the answer.


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## Rilvor (Jul 4, 2012)

Spits said:


> do you even think about what you say.
> notice the lack of question mark. because it's not a question. i know the answer.



That's unfortunately tactless of you. I hope you have a better reply than an ad hominem, despite this being neither a debate nor a discussion based around facts.

It's amusing, since essentially we agree on the main point.

Shall we proceed to complain about Death Culture then? Shall we demonize people who make morbid jokes, and any morbid media? Shall we give hard looks to anyone who dares mention the complete loss of everything a person has?

What bothers me is that in one post you seem to give the general idea that you believe people are comfortable with whatever they laugh at. Then you wish to turn around and extend this to "But you can laugh outside of a real situation and still hate it." There is a contradiction here. Maybe you should spend some time cleaning your position up, it certainly does not appear clear to me.

There is a massive double standard in general with people. We'll laugh just fine at comedic presentations of pain or death, we'll laugh at people's misfortunes and not think twice. But should those comedic presentations be about rape, it must now be demonized and is insensitive. You are now someone who is, according to this flawed thinking, supporting actual rapists.

Let me put this absurdity back in your face:



Spits said:


> but ofc any men's rights activist/anti "radical feminism" guy is gonna shoot me down because they NEED to be able to find humor in something like this.



Please tell me what you see wrong with this behavior. If you cannot, please tell me that too and we will cease to reply to one another.

Edit again: Allow me to make something clear. I do not support "rape jokes" as I do not find them funny. I find them tactless and the resort of a dulled, witless mind. I do not appreciate the way nerds, bro-gamers, or anyone else uses the word in the context mentioned in this thread. But I do not think anyone's taste in humor needs to be demonized, suppressed, or twisted wrongfully for the malicious sake of making others feel bad. There is something awful about this, and it doesn't take much to replace rape with something we make light of all of the time but is horrible to see the flaw. The quality of our words reflects strongly on the quality of our thoughts, and it works both ways to you people who would think yourselves to control that.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Jul 5, 2012)

You make the same mistake as everyone else, pedophilia is NOT rape unless you can magically rape someone with your thoughts alone. Child molestation IS. Get it right.


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## CrazyLee (Jul 6, 2012)

Lobar said:


> Those aren't any better. For any of those, it'd be a good idea to at least preface them with a trigger warning.


Always wondered about what should have a trigger warning in the first place. It seems some people are triggered just from the mere mention of rape. Wouldn't something be more triggering if it actually reminds you of the bad situation, for instance a vet being triggered by fireworks because the booms remind him of a bad battle, or something so descriptive it causes flashbacks? As a former victim of abuse myself, it takes actually being in a very similar situation to even remotely trigger anything for me. Abuse jokes don't even remotely trigger me.




Lobar said:


> There's nothing inherently wrong with finding any joke funny, but I think it's important to mind the settings in which you tell them... A racist joke told by an actual racist ceases to be amusing.





Fay V said:


> Rape can be funny, but most of the time people are not thoughtful comedians, they are thoughtless jackasses that make light of a serious issue


So it really depends on who's the person saying the joke and who they're saying it to, and what the intent of the joke is. If I were to say "That girl in the middle east was asking for it because she was showing just an INCH of skin" around westerners who are accustomed to women showing lots of skin, people would know I'm being sarcastic. But if some asshole womanizers would be joking and laughing how they got a drunk woman to give them all blowjpbs and then fondled her while she was unconscious, and how big of a whore she is, then that wouldn't be funny, it would just be fucked up. Maybe the problem is there's too many misogynistic dicks in the world.




Lobar said:


> You're strawmanning a bit here, it doesn't imply any such thing. In America we also have a Christian culture, but certainly not every last thing about America supports or should support Christianity, and not all Americans hold a Christian mentality.


Not exactly sure how I'm strawmanning. I'm saying that from my own perspective, when someone mentions rape culture, I feel like they're claiming I condone rape as well. That I'm a part of that culture somehow despite being someone who is against treating women like crap or sex objects.


Fay V said:


> there is a rape culture. It's not saying everyone everywhere agrees that it's totally fine to go out and violently rape people, but obviously you are very biased to not see how badly these jokes will affect people.


Of course I'm biased, I'm a man and I haven't been raped. And I would think that the joke would affect different people differently. I don't entirely understand how the comic in question offends people as it's not directly making fun of rape, but rather using rape as a storytelling device, to show how bad the slaves have it and how callous the hero is by not saving them.

Maybe the problem is I don't personally see a rape culture around me. Maybe I just don't hang around the right people, or maybe being male I'm ignorant or blind to it, but I don't see american culture condoning rape. Parts of it, sure, like men who are dicks, but not everyone.




Lobar said:


> Also extremely relevant: The absolute shitfest that has ensued following the announcement of a "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" project on Kickstarter.


I'm not sure if those people harassing her are just trolling or really believe the bullshit they're saying, but it seems the internet is the place for dicks to play without consequence. I do hope she does that video series.




Fay V said:


> For instance, the recent AC problem where a girl was sexually harassed at AC by a stranger. When she came forward to deal with it she was harassed and basically told she deserved it.


Furries.
That's a pretty dick thing to do but considering it's a geek fandom con I'm not entirely surprised.




Randy-Darkshade said:


> You make the same mistake as everyone else, pedophilia is NOT rape unless you can magically rape someone with your thoughts alone. Child molestation IS. Get it right.


And why do we have such a problem with cub porn again?
I did mention before that I understand that. Pedophilia is being attracted to kids. Molestation is actually raping them.

Damn, I may have more to reply to and this post is already long enough. Quick, someone make a post so I don't look like I'm double posting! :V


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## Ricky (Jul 6, 2012)

I've read this thread, researched the facts and came to the conclusion that Rape Culture doesn't exist.

Thanks a lot FAF for getting my hopes up and then letting me down :c


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## Randy-Darkshade (Jul 7, 2012)

CrazyLee said:


> And why do we have such a problem with cub porn again?
> I did mention before that I understand that. Pedophilia is being attracted to kids. Molestation is actually raping them.
> 
> Damn, I may have more to reply to and this post is already long enough. Quick, someone make a post so I don't look like I'm double posting! :V



If you already knew this then why did you associate the two as being the same in your OP?


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## CrazyLee (Jul 7, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> If you already knew this then why did you associate the two as being the same in your OP?


And why didn't you read the entire thread? I made a mistake in the OP, someone corrected me, and I admitted that what I had meant was molestation and not pedophilia and we moved on.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Jul 7, 2012)

CrazyLee said:


> And why didn't you read the entire thread? I made a mistake in the OP, someone corrected me, and I admitted that what I had meant was molestation and not pedophilia and we moved on.



Because I do what most others do on this forum. Read the OP and fuck the rest of the thread. :v


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