# What do you think of -  Free Art



## Drayx (May 17, 2017)

Well, I was wondering what do you think of free-art-request. Is it beneficial for both the artist and the requesting person? Does it help for the communication? Is it making better artists? Do you have good or bad experience? 

 I spent some time analyzing the possible reasons behind it - and made out my mind. I still want to hear others opinion about it, artists and others. I think this is quite a prominent section in our FA forum and there is always a lot of activity for such threads - but I didn't find any thread talking about it.


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2017)

Free art is always awesome.






In my opinion, it's solely up to the artist to choose whether he/she wants to do free art. The one recieving free art have only one duty: Shut up, be grateful, and like the art they recieve. That's it. If their input is wanted for on for instance a pose and/or expression, they should give it in a positive and friendly way.

Anyone acting as if they deserve free art, and/or act in a spoiled or worse off, in an entitled way, IMO, ought to be scratched off the list over people who truly enjoy free shit, and should be from there on out be denied free art from that artist.

I am of the opinion that ANY work are to be paid for, unless the artist themselves are willing to do free art.

Now, onto some analysis on the topic:

I'd say it's good for both parties, if it's done in a respectful, friendly and courteous manner. The artist gains publicity and recognition through their art, and the one on the recieving end of free art gets free art. In the majority of cases, this is a win/win scenario.

Communication is important. Keeping in touch during the entire process helps with making sure that the commissioner get what they commissioned, and the artist doesn't make any mistakes, like for instance, wrong colours, doesn't add a trinket, wrong design on clothes, +++. If you decide to do free art at some point, you might end up with some very interesting characters and/or interesting settings/situations/poses/expressions. The more practice you get in, the better you become. "Practice makes the master", as they say.

In my own experience so far with artists, they have ALL been lovely, friendly and courteous to commission. And it's tempting to commission them again. 

The ones I've commissioned/gotten free art from so far:
-Vatinyan
-asokarie (drew Drake for the first time, and I absolutely love her for that)
-Pallid Panda
-Yvvki
-KynRen
-KitKatChunKiss
-inugumi
-southjaw(commission in progress)
-KittenCozy
^ They have ALL been very friendly and just outright awesome. Sorry if I've forgotten anyone.


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## Belatucadros (May 17, 2017)

Ditto what Yakamaru said. I don't see anything wrong with it because it's the artist's choice to do it. I'm no artist but it's probably good practice as well. I've seen lots of artists who do free requests so that they have samples for future commissioners to look at.


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## Drayx (May 17, 2017)

Belatucadros said:


> Ditto what Yakamaru said. I don't see anything wrong with it because it's the artist's choice to do it. I'm no artist but it's probably good practice as well. I've seen lots of artists who do free requests so that they have samples for future commissioners to look at.



Could you elaborate about your view of free will in our context?

If someone does something of his free will - it does not necessarily make it more right.
By the standard you adopt - sweatshop is fine as the workers are choosing to do so, nobody puts a gun to their head, nobody should care about their wages or conditions.
If I have a rich acquaintance who gives me extra-expensive gifts every week, it's fine since he does so by his own free will. 
It's all valid - but moral of right or wrong might depends on multiple aspects beside choice.


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2017)

Drayx said:


> Could you elaborate about your view of free will in our context?
> 
> If someone does something of his free will - it does not necessarily make it more right.
> By the standard you adopt - sweatshop is fine as the workers are choosing to do so, nobody puts a gun to their head, nobody should care about their wages or conditions.
> ...


If you want to debate morals and moral standards instead of the actual topic, why didn't you just say so?

Your morals may not be the same as someone elses. This goes for absolutely everything.

If someone decide to give free art, it's their right, their perogative, to do so. if your rich friend gives you free shit every week, that's on him. 

Free will is, well, free. You are 100% free to choose NOT to do free art. However, you are NOT free to tell someone else to go the same path as you, regardless of choice.

Right or wrong have NOTHING to do with it.


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## Belatucadros (May 17, 2017)

Drayx said:


> Could you elaborate about your view of free will in our context?
> 
> If someone does something of his free will - it does not necessarily make it more right.
> By the standard you adopt - sweatshop is fine as the workers are choosing to do so, nobody puts a gun to their head, nobody should care about their wages or conditions.
> ...


This is art we're talking about though. Art is something people do because they enjoy it, therefore if they choose to do free art for the sake of just having fun then where's the fault in that? That's just my opinion though, and I definitely respect yours.


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## Drayx (May 17, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> If you want to debate morals and moral standards instead of the actual topic, why didn't you just say so?
> 
> Your morals may not be the same as someone elses. This goes for absolutely everything.
> 
> ...




mmm...no, I didn't do it to speak about morals - just the opposite - I want to have a "clear" discussion without skeptical presumption.
Just as you did before you can say something like: "I like it, it is cool, I had some good experience with it and this way I made some friends."
If you claim something like "it's their own free choice" - (I won't doubt that)  I would want to get a sharper answer. So, unless you want to argue that specific point - just drop it for both of us.


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## Drayx (May 17, 2017)

Belatucadros said:


> This is art we're talking about though. Art is something people do because they enjoy it, therefore if they choose to do free art for the sake of just having fun then where's the fault in that? That's just my opinion though, and I definitely respect yours.



Thanks for your openness, I don't take that for granted  
I totally agree with art for fun and for joy.
I'm not sure if there is a general cosmic fault in Free-Art, everybody has their own opinion about that.


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## Yakamaru (May 17, 2017)

Drayx said:


> mmm...no, I didn't do it to speak about morals - just the opposite - I want to have a "clear" discussion without skeptical presumption.
> Just as you did before you can say something like: "I like it, it is cool, I had some good experience with it and this way I made some friends."
> If you claim something like "it's their own free choice" - (I won't doubt that)  I would want to get a sharper answer. So, unless you want to argue that specific point - just drop it for both of us.


Oh, ok. My bad. ^^

Well, I'd love to hear your opinion on it, if you don't mind sharing it.


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## Drayx (May 17, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Oh, ok. My bad. ^^
> 
> Well, I'd love to hear your opinion on it, if you don't mind sharing it.



 sure  But I do want to hear at least one artist before going to details.
Personally I think there is a better model (or models) to achieve the things you mentioned and more: recognition, promotion, social communication, art improvement, having a critique, explore new themes in art.
I must say that I don't have the POV of the one asking for requests, so I'm far from being objective.


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## narutogod123 (May 17, 2017)

I mostly do free art when I have nothing to do and feel like being nice, it's pretty fun even though I only draw sketches of their character. Sometimes people take it for granted, I make SFW art but I happen to get some people asking for kinky stuff even though I only draw NSFW for commissions. It gets really frustrating when I do something nice and one person ruins it by posting NSFW pictures in a PG-13 forum in my thread. So I took a break from making everyone free art and only did raffles occasionally, I want to get back into doing free art for fun but I can only hope there aren't any crazy people again.


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## Drayx (May 17, 2017)

narutogod123 said:


> I mostly do free art when I have nothing to do and feel like being nice, it's pretty fun even though I only draw sketches of their character. Sometimes people take it for granted, I make SFW art but I happen to get some people asking for kinky stuff even though I only draw NSFW for commissions. It gets really frustrating when I do something nice and one person ruins it by posting NSFW pictures in a PG-13 forum in my thread. So I took a break from making everyone free art and only did raffles occasionally, I want to get back into doing free art for fun but I can only hope there aren't any crazy people again.



hehe, sometimes I have it the other way around 

Can't you just delete unwanted comments?


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## PencilBrain (May 17, 2017)

Depends on the situation. 
I get messages from people who think simply because i am an artist, that i should be happy to do free art. 
Heres the thing. I have bills to pay and yes art is my profession.
Would you ask a mechanic to fix your car for free? 
Just because i am an artist does not mean it isnt just as insulting to me that you devalue my profession so much that you would automatically consider it a hobby and not a livelihood
If you wouldnt ask a hair dresser for a free haircut just because she likes cutting hair, dont ask me for free art because i like being an artist.
Its insulting.
 You cant buy food with exposure.
Art raffles do help some artist out when they are in a rut or just feel like doodling.
But that way different that just asking someone for free stuff.
Thats my peice.
I feel too many people in the fandom, dont respect artists as much as they deserve. So sorry for ranting.
Cheers :3


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## Drayx (May 18, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> Depends on the situation.
> I get messages from people who think simply because i am an artist, that i should be happy to do free art.
> Heres the thing. I have bills to pay and yes art is my profession.
> Would you ask a mechanic to fix your car for free?
> ...



Agree for every word


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## dozenfish (May 18, 2017)

I also agree that there is a fine line to walk in terms of exploitation.  I think free art is most appropriate when you are a beginner artist looking to get the hang of commissions and wanting practice.  If you've worked long/hard at your craft, you deserve to be paid for your labor.  I personally would only offer free art as a bonus for multiple commissions or as a follower giveaway at this point...


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## Drayx (May 18, 2017)

I'll try to be less judgmental and harsh.

*Basically - it has no merit whatsoever for the artist*. It might be misleading calling it "Free" since working for hours on each piece for no reward of any kind, makes it sound absurd .
If you do it for fun - it is your decision - but* there is a misconception that this act is also helpful for the artist*, I would like to differ. 
I have drawn over 40 free-art for a period of a year. I usually work between 2-6 hours on each piece. So this is my experience and perspective.
I didn't do it for money, I did so for 3 main reasons: Promotion, Social communication and Improving my art - thinking back about it - those goals were not fulfilled:

*Promotion* - I never got a boost of promotion because of a Free-art I have done - NEVER. Free-Art never got more likes or more views than my regulars watchers would bring me. The "client" does not work to promote you, even if he is super nice and kind - it is not his job. Usually a lot of those would just look for the next piece of art, as they hoard tens or more of free art pieces. You can also ask yourself - is promotion a good enough for hours of work? But other expressed this idea better than me.

*Social Communication* - Only few people tried to communicate with me directly to have a meaningful conversation (about 5%). Most would be nice to say thanks and give a positive feedback, some just disappeared from the forum midway - and I never got any feedback. A regular conversation that I initiate would serve me much better than making an art piece for someone. I rarely got critique which is relevant for my art - Anatomy, color scheme, background, technique, overall feeling - I did get annoying request to fix some minor details in the character (like the right shape of tattoo or some earing). About third to half of the people I made a drawing for are no longer on this forum.

*Improving your art* - Well, I did get better with my art, but this is not the result of working with other "clients" - it was just because I drew a lot and tried to challenge myself. If I wanted to do something different - I could just as easily open the internet or look around and choose something I never did before. The only "clients" that made an effort and watched me streaming helped me during the process itself. The main motivation for improvement came from my side, not from others.

So, I would suggest doing things differently to achieve those goals:

+ *Make Fan art*: yes, maybe it is a lesser form of art, but those pieces brought me tons of views and watchers compare to Free-Art. If you choose a popular theme - people would pay notice to it - as they search for every small piece of their favorite character.
+ *Just communicate*: just communicate in the forum or in other medias directly with other clients and artists. Don't make friends based on materialistic benefit.
+ *Collaborate with artists*: work with others and ask for their critique and opinion, do trade-offs and projects together. Learn from selected few favorite artists. (!) I consider writers, music composers and every other creator as a sort of artist.

As I try to follow those - I find it is more beneficial to me. I don't agree with the idea of "beginner artists" should work for free until they gain enough experience. I also hate to think that every art should be made to gain money.


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## PencilBrain (May 18, 2017)

Drayx said:


> I'll try to be less judgmental and harsh.
> 
> *Basically - it has no merit whatsoever for the artist*. It might be misleading calling it "Free" since working for hours on each piece for no reward of any kind, makes it sound absurd .
> If you do it for fun - it is your decision - but* there is a misconception that this act is also helpful for the artist*, I would like to differ.
> ...


100% agree like legit with everything you just said XD i would say the single best peice of advice you can give anyone is. Make fanart. Lots and lots of fanart. Its the only thing anyone cares about unless you're allready well known. People arent searching tags for your art. They want to see pokemon and splatoon mashups. They want steven universe and undertale. 
Free art will get you nowhere because people are Generally selfish and only in it till you give them what they want. They wont promote you and they usually wont even credit you as the artist in their bio. So dont bother


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## Drayx (May 18, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> 100% agree like legit with everything you just said XD i would say the single best peice of advice you can give anyone is. Make fanart. Lots and lots of fanart. Its the only thing anyone cares about unless you're allready well known. People arent searching tags for your art. They want to see pokemon and splatoon mashups. They want steven universe and undertale.
> Free art will get you nowhere because people are Generally selfish and only in it till you give them what they want. They wont promote you and they usually wont even credit you as the artist in their bio. So dont bother



There are still quite a lot of nice people out there - but kind people do not based their relation on favors.

I changed my other thread for 'Art Trade' and hope that a lot of artists would work with me- and maybe some non-artist people would be motivated to try something new.


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## PencilBrain (May 18, 2017)

Drayx said:


> There are still quite a lot of nice people out there - but kind people do not based their relation on favors.
> 
> I changed my other thread for 'Art Trade' and hope that a lot of artists would work with me- and maybe some non-artist people would be motivated to try something new.



I would rather do art trades that free art any day. That way i know i get something of value back for my effort. And hopefully form relationships in the process.


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## rocketseal (May 18, 2017)

Drayx said:


> Could you elaborate about your view of free will in our context?
> 
> If someone does something of his free will - it does not necessarily make it more right.
> By the standard you adopt - sweatshop is fine as the workers are choosing to do so, nobody puts a gun to their head, nobody should care about their wages or conditions.
> ...


Kinda skimmed the convo so apologies if this is addressed, but instead of a sweatshop I think it's more like a free samples analogy. I don't get mad going to Costco and eating their free samples. Yeah, some people might go around collecting samples so they don't have to buy dinner, but hey, apparently it's still very worth it for those companies so I'm guessing there's some statistics there.


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## Zeitzbach (May 18, 2017)

If you do a bunch of requests, you will just get some people who watch you because they think they can get some free pieces off you.

So if you're gonna do free arts, accept something that isn't just for personal sake unless you're just feeling generous. Even so, doing free art, while it seems nice of the artist, most people who commissioned the artist in the past won't like it and will feel like they're being cheated.


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## Drayx (May 19, 2017)

rocketseal said:


> Kinda skimmed the convo so apologies if this is addressed, but instead of a sweatshop I think it's more like a free samples analogy. I don't get mad going to Costco and eating their free samples. Yeah, some people might go around collecting samples so they don't have to buy dinner, but hey, apparently it's still very worth it for those companies so I'm guessing there's some statistics there.



Hi! I gave the example of a sweatshop to question the idea of choice - But in the end we decided not to go to some moral debate. But what you're saying is interesting!

Let me get this straight - you're saying that a company or a shop that sells hundreds of portions or large quantity food per day, giving small free samples for hundreds of people in order to be familiar with their product and to further advertise themselves - IS THE SAME - as an artist working for an hour or more on a certain piece and giving it to only one person by the end of the day? You make an analogy between mass production establishment giving free samples that requires little investment and the work of a single craftsman?


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## Drayx (May 19, 2017)

Zeitzbach said:


> If you do a bunch of requests, you will just get some people who watch you because they think they can get some free pieces off you.
> 
> So if you're gonna do free arts, accept something that isn't just for personal sake unless you're just feeling generous. Even so, doing free art, while it seems nice of the artist, most people who commissioned the artist in the past won't like it and will feel like they're being cheated.



I agree. A businessman-artist needs to be consistent - not to go back and forth with requests and prices. Otherwise it is not fair - and it's only logical that you'll get a world of hatred for it.


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## rocketseal (May 19, 2017)

Drayx said:


> Hi! I gave the example of a sweatshop to question the idea of choice - But in the end we decided not to go to some moral debate. But what you're saying is interesting!
> 
> Let me get this straight - you're saying that a company or a shop that sells hundreds of portions or large quantity food per day, giving small free samples for hundreds of people in order to be familiar with their product and to further advertise themselves - IS THE SAME - as an artist working for an hour or more on a certain piece and giving it to only one person by the end of the day? You make an analogy between mass production establishment giving free samples that requires little investment and the work of a single craftsman?


Well, yes. Because we build our portfolios and share everywhere. It's not just one person who's benefiting from the free art, but also all the people who see it. 

I think your logic is too extreme. Instead of large corporations, think small local farmers markets. Even if they only have a few samples out, people who try and like them will talk about them to friends and family.


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## PencilBrain (May 19, 2017)

rocketseal said:


> Well, yes. Because we build our portfolios and share everywhere. It's not just one person who's benefiting from the free art, but also all the people who see it.
> 
> I think your logic is too extreme. Instead of large corporations, think small local farmers markets. Even if they only have a few samples out, people who try and like them will talk about them to friends and family.


Most people who go after free art dont commission people. And they are usually selfish and dont bother spreading around your name after they get it. From my experience, its a waist of time and effort you could be using to make art for yourself or for a real client. Ffs make adoptables and let em sell over time. Free art only benefits the receiver.


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## Yakamaru (May 19, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> Most people who go after free art dont commission people. And they are usually selfish and dont bother spreading around your name after they get it. From my experience, its a waist of time and effort you could be using to make art for yourself or for a real client. Ffs make adoptables and let em sell over time. Free art only benefits the receiver.


Do you do free art because you want to do free art and are feeling generous, or do you do free art because you basically want free advertisement for your art?

You can solve both by having people who actually genuinely appreciate free art. People who actually do appreciate free art are much more likely to promote your art at least once and put their art on their gallery, giving you passive promotion.

Free art can be beneficial for both, if the reciever actually put that shit on their gallery and/or promote the artist. I try to post all art I recieve, commissioned and free alike, in my gallery. I am not an ad company and I won't go out of my way to promote you, but I will show off the cool art I have gotten to friends and groups I am part of. Maybe even family, depending what art it is.


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## PencilBrain (May 19, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Do you do free art because you want to do free art and are feeling generous, or do you do free art because you basically want free advertisement for your art?
> 
> You can solve both by having people who actually genuinely appreciate free art. People who actually do appreciate free art are much more likely to promote your art at least once and put their art on their gallery, giving you passive promotion.
> 
> Free art can be beneficial for both, if the reciever actually put that shit on their gallery and/or promote the artist. I try to post all art I recieve, commissioned and free alike, in my gallery. I am not an ad company and I won't go out of my way to promote you, but I will show off the cool art I have gotten to friends and groups I am part of. Maybe even family, depending what art it is.


If somone wishes to do free art i wont stop them. But comissioned art gets all the same perks plus you get paid for your work. There really is no reason to do it unless you just spontaniously decide to give away free art. But again your time is always better spent making adoptables to sell or doing an art trade. Free art is never really a good option for anyone but the person receiving. I would respectfully have to disagree with you here :3 no hard feelins


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## Yakamaru (May 19, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> If somone wishes to do free art i wont stop them. But comissioned art gets all the same perks plus you get paid for your work. There really is no reason to do it unless you just spontaniously decide to give away free art. But again your time is always better spent making adoptables to sell or doing an art trade. Free art is never really a good option for anyone but the person receiving. I would respectfully have to disagree with you here :3 no hard feelins


Hahaha, no worries! I see the upsides of free art, along with the downsides.

If an artist wants to do free art, it's their perogative. But they won't get paid for it(in most cases, but can in some cases recieve a tip) for the most part, and you basically only get a bit of potential promotion and exposure.

You will lose potential exposure, but you won't lose out on income, if you don't do free art.


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## PencilBrain (May 19, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Hahaha, no worries! I see the upsides of free art, along with the downsides.
> 
> If an artist wants to do free art, it's their perogative. But they won't get paid for it(in most cases, but can in some cases recieve a tip) for the most part, and you basically only get a bit of potential promotion and exposure.
> 
> You will lose potential exposure, but you won't lose out on income, if you don't do free art.


Yeah i can agree with potential. True.


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## Yakamaru (May 19, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> Yeah i can agree with potential. True.


The thing with free art is you most likely won't make any money, but you can get a decent amount of potential exposure to people who might not otherwise see your art.

It's a decent way to create a bit of a following before you go into taking commissions. Setting up a Patreon is also always a good idea.


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## Serena Elric (May 19, 2017)

It is beneficial to the person who is getting the free art but not the artist, especially if you are looking to do commissions. The people who come to you because you are giving away free art are never going to pay for it and these people who are like that don't dissever your hard work. No matter how good or bad you may think your art is, that doesn't mean you should under sell yourself, because that is what you are doing to yourself when you take requests. Now if every once in a while you want to do a raffle or an even to where you are giving a few people free art that's okay, but when you draw anything for anyone who ask for it for free that is you telling them you do not value your work.

In my personal experience with this was back when I first come to the online art community. When I found out about commissions and requests I was happy to know there were people out there who were will to pay money for my skills. But I was new and had little to show for my work so I decided to do some requests to build my gallery up and get some exposure to the public. And things went will well, at first, lots of people came for me to draw them something and I did. It felt good to hear how happy they where with my work and it gave me the confidence to start my commissions, thinking they would be willing to pay for my work once I started to charge for it. But as soon as I closed my requests and opened my commissions everyone went away. No commissioners ever come my way and I even lost some watchers. Even those who I role played with that I did art for and thought were my friends left me. I was devastated and gave up on doing art for a long time. It took me a whole year to come back to the online community and this was around the time I discovered FA and there was where I found a new style of art I really loved, furry. And some how I got the courage to try again with my commissions. So unlike Deviant art, Fur Affinity was a much better place and community for commissions as it didn't take long for me to get my first commission! It felt so great to finally fined someone who enjoyed my work enough to pay me for it. Compared to just give away my art for free it was more fulfilling to do commissions than requests, because now you have people telling me my art is worth something! That me as an artist should be proud of my work and shouldn't be afraid to ask for something in return for MY TIME AND HARD WORK! 

Now if you are looking to do request to get better at drawing there are much better ways to do this. You should try to draw things that push you creative limits. Try to do things out of your comfort zone, like for me I still have trouble drawing males so every now and than I push myself to draw a male character to try to get batter at it. And remember it is quality not quantity that counts when I comes to art. If you feel your gallery is too small don't worry about it in time your gallery will grow, you can force creativity. Trust me I know its hard I have over a 100 drawing on DA and still feel like its not enough. But like I said it will grow with time and remember many of the artist who have made it big in the art community have been around for a long time.  But anyway sorry this was so long but I feel very strongly about this stuff and I really gets on my nerves when people expect to get something for nothing.


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## PencilBrain (May 19, 2017)

Serena Elric said:


> It is beneficial to the person who is getting the free art but not the artist, especially if you are looking to do commissions. The people who come to you because you are giving away free art are never going to pay for it and these people who are like that don't dissever your hard work. No matter how good or bad you may think your art is, that doesn't mean you should under sell yourself, because that is what you are doing to yourself when you take requests. Now if every once in a while you want to do a raffle or an even to where you are giving a few people free art that's okay, but when you draw anything for anyone who ask for it for free that is you telling them you do not value your work.
> 
> In my personal experience with this was back when I first come to the online art community. When I found out about commissions and requests I was happy to know there were people out there who were will to pay money for my skills. But I was new and had little to show for my work so I decided to do some requests to build my gallery up and get some exposure to the public. And things went will well, at first, lots of people came for me to draw them something and I did. It felt good to hear how happy they where with my work and it gave me the confidence to start my commissions, thinking they would be willing to pay for my work once I started to charge for it. But as soon as I closed my requests and opened my commissions everyone went away. No commissioners ever come my way and I even lost some watchers. Even those who I role played with that I did art for and thought were my friends left me. I was devastated and gave up on doing art for a long time. It took me a whole year to come back to the online community and this was around the time I discovered FA and there was where I found a new style of art I really loved, furry. And some how I got the courage to try again with my commissions. So unlike Deviant art, Fur Affinity was a much better place and community for commissions as it didn't take long for me to get my first commission! It felt so great to finally fined someone who enjoyed my work enough to pay me for it. Compared to just give away my art for free it was more fulfilling to do commissions than requests, because now you have people telling me my art is worth something! That me as an artist should be proud of my work and shouldn't be afraid to ask for something in return for MY TIME AND HARD WORK!
> 
> Now if you are looking to do request to get better at drawing there are much better ways to do this. You should try to draw things that push you creative limits. Try to do things out of your comfort zone, like for me I still have trouble drawing males so every now and than I push myself to draw a male character to try to get batter at it. And remember it is quality not quantity that counts when I comes to art. If you feel your gallery is too small don't worry about it in time your gallery will grow, you can force creativity. Trust me I know its hard I have over a 100 drawing on DA and still feel like its not enough. But like I said it will grow with time and remember many of the artist who have made it big in the art community have been around for a long time.  But anyway sorry this was so long but I feel very strongly about this stuff and I really gets on my nerves when people expect to get something for nothing.


I took the time to read the whole thing :3
You were passionate  enough to write it so it deserved the read. And i agree with. How you feel on this. My experience is pretty close to exactly this. Now that i commission everyone peaced out and im at square one again. So im making a brand new FA account to post art and take commissions. I hope it works out but so far not much hope. I hope you're successful too :3


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## Serena Elric (May 19, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> I took the time to read the whole thing :3
> You were passionate  enough to write it so it deserved the read. And i agree with. How you feel on this. My experience is pretty close to exactly this. Now that i commission everyone peaced out and im at square one again. So im making a brand new FA account to post art and take commissions. I hope it works out but so far not much hope. I hope you're successful too :3



Thank you I'm happy to meet someone who feels the same as me. To be honest I didn't think the first reply to be so positive and good luck to you too! ^-^


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## PencilBrain (May 19, 2017)

Serena Elric said:


> Right and wrong has EVERYTHING to do with this! You are taking advantage of the artist for offering free art, because NO artist should be doing that! Drawing is hard and takes a lot of time to do no matter what level that artist may be at. You can't just sit there and say "well there just giving it away
> 
> 
> Thank you I'm happy to meet someone who feels the same as me. To be honest I didn't think the first reply to be so positive and good luck to you too! ^-^


:3 thanks! I think itle all work out in the end somehow


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## Yakamaru (May 20, 2017)

Serena Elric said:


> It is beneficial to the person who is getting the free art but not the artist, especially if you are looking to do commissions. The people who come to you because you are giving away free art are never going to pay for it and these people who are like that don't dissever your hard work. No matter how good or bad you may think your art is, that doesn't mean you should under sell yourself, because that is what you are doing to yourself when you take requests. Now if every once in a while you want to do a raffle or an even to where you are giving a few people free art that's okay, but when you draw anything for anyone who ask for it for free that is you telling them you do not value your work.
> 
> In my personal experience with this was back when I first come to the online art community. When I found out about commissions and requests I was happy to know there were people out there who were will to pay money for my skills. But I was new and had little to show for my work so I decided to do some requests to build my gallery up and get some exposure to the public. And things went will well, at first, lots of people came for me to draw them something and I did. It felt good to hear how happy they where with my work and it gave me the confidence to start my commissions, thinking they would be willing to pay for my work once I started to charge for it. But as soon as I closed my requests and opened my commissions everyone went away. No commissioners ever come my way and I even lost some watchers. Even those who I role played with that I did art for and thought were my friends left me. I was devastated and gave up on doing art for a long time. It took me a whole year to come back to the online community and this was around the time I discovered FA and there was where I found a new style of art I really loved, furry. And some how I got the courage to try again with my commissions. So unlike Deviant art, Fur Affinity was a much better place and community for commissions as it didn't take long for me to get my first commission! It felt so great to finally fined someone who enjoyed my work enough to pay me for it. Compared to just give away my art for free it was more fulfilling to do commissions than requests, because now you have people telling me my art is worth something! That me as an artist should be proud of my work and shouldn't be afraid to ask for something in return for MY TIME AND HARD WORK!
> 
> Now if you are looking to do request to get better at drawing there are much better ways to do this. You should try to draw things that push you creative limits. Try to do things out of your comfort zone, like for me I still have trouble drawing males so every now and than I push myself to draw a male character to try to get batter at it. And remember it is quality not quantity that counts when I comes to art. If you feel your gallery is too small don't worry about it in time your gallery will grow, you can force creativity. Trust me I know its hard I have over a 100 drawing on DA and still feel like its not enough. But like I said it will grow with time and remember many of the artist who have made it big in the art community have been around for a long time.  But anyway sorry this was so long but I feel very strongly about this stuff and I really gets on my nerves when people expect to get something for nothing.


It really sucks that you've experienced all of that, it really does. Yeah, you might end up with some people who simply follow you for free art. This is kinda hard, if not impossible, to avoid. If they stop following/watching you when you're done with requests and start to take commissions, then they were only there for the free art in the first place. They were not true followers/watchers, and you shouldn't be worried about them leaving. Leechers are plentiful. You just need to weed them out.

It really sucks to see artists treated like this. Some people are greedy, spoiled, *entitled**, some might even be snarky and outright negative about what they recieve/get, so I fully understand your point of view and experience. It's not pleasant to hear about this, no matter how many times I hear it. A decent amount of people are outright shitty. Same goes for artists. If you act spoiled, as if you are *entitled** to being commissioned, you are doing something wrong. If something is rotten, it may affect all parties, and should be corrected.

* = I fucking hate this word. No one is entitled to anything, ever. Though won't stop some people acting/behaving like it they are. It's cancer.

A decent amount of people simply don't have the money to go around when it comes to buying commissions. They might've commissioned someone else, your prices may be too high, they may have a limited budget and want to choose carefully, your artstyle may not be what they are looking for, art quality, they prefer someone elses art over yours, +++. There's a plethora of reasons on why you may not be commissioned by someone.

Like with a lot of other things, free art has both pros and cons. Some people experience more of the cons, while others more of the pros. It's often about your audience and how you as an artist are. There's a LOT of different major and minor factors that decide on whether or not an artist will be commissioned. Some of the pros are wider exposure and potential future commissioners. Some of the cons are zero income, potential leechers and people who may not show off your art if they recieve it.

But keep this in mind: If it weren't for the fact that someone(asokarie) went out of their way to draw Drake as a kind and friendly gesture, I wouldn't be getting commissions from other artists in the first place. I won't speak for anyone but myself and my own situation, obviously. If or when I recieve free art I will do my best to promote the artist, through sharing on for instance Discord and posting the art on FA. Hell, even if it's commissioned art I show it off on Discord and other locations. The people I commission and/or recieve free art from deserve the exposure, even if it's only one other person.

Oh yeah.. Do you have a Patreon set up?


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## PencilBrain (May 20, 2017)

This is going to sound a bit.... Cocky.
Im a self depricating person.
Especially with my art. 
Its never good enough.  
However i am artisticly inclined enough to know when my art has hit a certain quality level.
Free art i would say has its place.
Beginner/ amature artists may be more inclined to do free art. 
Lets not sugar coat it. 
When you start off you're not very good. It takes a few years to get to comission ready quality "in my opinion".
Im at the point where giving away art feels like giving away money. 
Because my skills as an artist have become valuable.
So i think theres a scale. 
Like from ms paint doodles all the way to tokifuji. 
And once you hit the mark where you feel you could sell it to the public, thats when its time to stop giving your hard earned skill away like its candy at a 1990s santa clause parade.


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## Activoid (May 20, 2017)

I think offering free art is a nice gesture that is entirely up to the artist. It can generate instant publicity (though usually temporary, unless you keep it up for a long time), and give you a great opportunity to practice drawing things you wouldn't normally draw yourself. It can push you outside of your comfort zone, which is a good thing that will absolutely help you grow as an artist, no matter what skill level you're at.

Personally, I don't do free art anymore just because I'm too busy with paid art. But if you want an opportunity to build your portfolio and practice a lot with prompts, while simultaneously making a lot of people happy, then go for it. I honestly can't think of any drawbacks, just be sure to not overwork yourself and make sure you have only a limited set of slots so that you don't end up with like 20 requests. And be sure to write them down and complete them in order if you do. <_>


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## Activoid (May 20, 2017)

As for whether or not someone should request free art, that's a different story. If you're a professional, had lots of schooling, or spent a lifetime building your skill, or want to take it seriously in the future, then charge someone money if they ask for free shit from you. If you are desirable enough for someone to actually ask you to make something for them, and YOU take yourself seriously as well, charge them money for it. Because you're a professional, or at least a professional-to-be.

If it's just a hobby and you don't really care about either money or pursuing art as a career, that's up to you to say yes or no. Depends on your mood or workload at the time, I guess. Whether or not you should offer free art if someone asks? Really boils down to knowing _exactly how much you, your time, and your skills are worth_. If those things aren't worth anything to you, then that's your business.


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## Yvvki (May 20, 2017)

I feel like drawing for free is a double edged sword. Yes it gives you practice but then people expect you to draw them for free or they will just wait until you draw for free. It really De-values your work.


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## PencilBrain (May 20, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> I feel like drawing for free is a double edged sword. Yes it gives you practice but then people expect you to draw them for free or they will just wait until you draw for free. It really De-values your work.


From my experience, the people who i gave free art to never commissioned me after i stopped with the charity stuff.


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## Bigbrownorc (May 20, 2017)

I draw free art.
I think it's good practice for me and helps me blow of steam. Though i don't spend hours when doing a request, unless it's really my sorta thing. But i do understand it other artists want to make coins for the hours they spend drawing.

i do this as a hobby when i have some spare time and just feel like drawing kinky stuff. Though i can at times be picky in which request i choose to do or not do. For example people who actively follow my blogs always go before somebody who just preys on free requests.
 I sometimes have people demand me stuff instead of requesting something nicely. Or expect me to draw their request right away, even though i have a big list of other requests still to do. 

But most of the time i get a lot of kind and nice people who just want to talk and negotiate on drawing something we both enjoy. They understand that a free artist isnt going to draw stuff he/she doesn't like drawing for nothing.


Summed up: i think for me its good practice and something just fun to do in my spare time 

Plus there are some artists ask to much for nothing. But that's just my opinion.


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## Serena Elric (May 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> It really sucks that you've experienced all of that, it really does. Yeah, you might end up with some people who simply follow you for free art. This is kinda hard, if not impossible, to avoid. If they stop following/watching you when you're done with requests and start to take commissions, then they were only there for the free art in the first place. They were not true followers/watchers, and you shouldn't be worried about them leaving. Leechers are plentiful. You just need to weed them out.
> 
> It really sucks to see artists treated like this. Some people are greedy, spoiled, *entitled**, some might even be snarky and outright negative about what they recieve/get, so I fully understand your point of view and experience. It's not pleasant to hear about this, no matter how many times I hear it. A decent amount of people are outright shitty. Same goes for artists. If you act spoiled, as if you are *entitled** to being commissioned, you are doing something wrong. If something is rotten, it may affect all parties, and should be corrected.
> 
> ...



I know there are many reason why a person won't commission me, but I'm saying is requests didn't help me one bit. Free art is only good for the person reviving it as I have said before once you start charging for it all those requester are gone and looking for the next artist to leech off of. It's human nature when you get something for free you never want to pay for it. You maybe the expectation to this rule but then you'll also get "well you didn't charge so-and-so so why should I pay?" Do you see what I'm saying? You can't have request and commissions because no one is going to pay when you are just giving it away for free. Its like that old saying " no one is going to buy the cow when your giving away the milk" You said it yourself you've heard it many times before so how can you still be okay with artist giving away their art? If you want to support the artist then do it! You support goes a long way and that extra income will give the artist more time to make more of the art you love. It can even help them quite their job to be a full time artist and make even more of the art you love. Why do you think so many artist are doing Patreon? Because they want to get something for all their hard work and live the dream to get paid to do what they love! Nothing beats that feeling and I hope that one day I could be one of those artist. 

Look I don't want to fight as you seem to be a very passionate guy and "love your free shit" but when an artist just gives and gives and people just take and take you're going to run out of things to give. When all is said and done it is better to support your artist so they can continue doing what they love and get to see more of what you love. I'm glade you are still willing to pay for art even after getting some for free as you already know there not many people willing to do that. 

As for my own Patreon I currently don't have one but it is in the works.


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## Serena Elric (May 20, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> This is going to sound a bit.... Cocky.
> Im a self depricating person.
> Especially with my art.
> Its never good enough.
> ...



My thoughts exactly, it is impassible to fine a serious artist who is giving away art. Why give it away for free when there are people willing to pay for it.


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## Serena Elric (May 20, 2017)

Yvvki said:


> I feel like drawing for free is a double edged sword. Yes it gives you practice but then people expect you to draw them for free or they will just wait until you draw for free. It really De-values your work.


Beautifully said!


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## fralea (May 20, 2017)

I've actually had several commissions from people who I've done free art for, though I do free art rarely and with strict limits to topic/render method. Though sometimes I've found myself putting a negligible price on things when I want to do free art just to weed out people. Only when I do that, I don't feel it would be fair to pick and choose which customers I want so its first come first serve. For requests/raffles its more like... I pick the topic, quality of completed product isn't guaranteed, no one is guaranteed to get anything (obviously), if you do get something you don't get wips or an estimated finish date, and I just pick whoever I want (for requests... obviously for raffles there is a random winner).

I think that it really depends on how you set it up. If you have requests and commissions open at the same time, yeah that's not the best business model.


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## Yakamaru (May 20, 2017)

Serena Elric said:


> I know there are many reason why a person won't commission me, but I'm saying is requests didn't help me one bit. Free art is only good for the person reviving it as I have said before once you start charging for it all those requester are gone and looking for the next artist to leech off of. It's human nature when you get something for free you never want to pay for it. You maybe the expectation to this rule but then you'll also get "well you didn't charge so-and-so so why should I pay?" Do you see what I'm saying? You can't have request and commissions because no one is going to pay when you are just giving it away for free. Its like that old saying " no one is going to buy the cow when your giving away the milk" You said it yourself you've heard it many times before so how can you still be okay with artist giving away their art? If you want to support the artist then do it! You support goes a long way and that extra income will give the artist more time to make more of the art you love. It can even help them quite their job to be a full time artist and make even more of the art you love. Why do you think so many artist are doing Patreon? Because they want to get something for all their hard work and live the dream to get paid to do what they love! Nothing beats that feeling and I hope that one day I could be one of those artist.
> 
> Look I don't want to fight as you seem to be a very passionate guy and "love your free shit" but when an artist just gives and gives and people just take and take you're going to run out of things to give. When all is said and done it is better to support your artist so they can continue doing what they love and get to see more of what you love. I'm glade you are still willing to pay for art even after getting some for free as you already know there not many people willing to do that.
> 
> As for my own Patreon I currently don't have one but it is in the works.


Oh, no. I completely understand where you're coming from, and I truly sympathize. It really sucks. If you don't like doing free art due to bad experiences, then by all means, don't do it. I'm not saying do lots and lots of free art. Far from it. Do the opposite: Make recieving free art from you a privilege. An honor. Well, that is, if you ever do free art.

The ones I've seen complaining about it were in the majority of the cases ranting because they gave free art to someone who didn't enjoy what they recieved. Yeah, they got the boot real fuckin' quick, I can tell you that. 

And yeah, I've heard it many times before, over the course of some 9 years. It's about... 15-20 times in total so far? So it's not uncommon. I support free art, but I don't support crippling yourself, I don't support doing so much free art you end up devaluing your art, and I sure as hell don't support ruining artists in any way, shape or form, if you know what I mean.

In my opinion, recieving free art is a privilege, an honor. It's best served as a promotional/exposure tool that should rarely be used, or as Yvvki said, will start devaluing your art and you as an artist. And it will attract leechers.


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## PencilBrain (May 20, 2017)

Look heres what i think.
If you are a kid and dont have money then free art is a way to interact with other kids who are artists starting off.
If you however are an adult and truly care about an artist, then maybe dont buy that tripple quarter pounder meal for once, make a sandwich at home and comission them. It really jerks my gerkin when i see well off furrs trying to squeeze freebees from struggling artists.
Again would you expect free repairs from a mechanic? 
Free rides from a taxi?
I cant buy food with exposure.
Its time to start treating artists with the same respect as any other profession.
For most of us this is a career choice and freelance is haaard. 
So just skip the next couple overpriced starbucks frappucinos and help out the artists you like.


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## Serena Elric (May 20, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> Oh, no. I completely understand where you're coming from, and I truly sympathize. It really sucks. If you don't like doing free art due to bad experiences, then by all means, don't do it. I'm not saying do lots and lots of free art. Far from it. Do the opposite: Make recieving free art from you a privilege. An honor. Well, that is, if you ever do free art.
> 
> The ones I've seen complaining about it were in the majority of the cases ranting because they gave free art to someone who didn't enjoy what they recieved. Yeah, they got the boot real fuckin' quick, I can tell you that.
> 
> ...



Yes exactly, I'm not against artist giving away art every now and than in raffles or other evens as a thank you to their watchers.


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## Drayx (May 21, 2017)

*Generosity as a tool of Greed*

If up until now I was quite conservative – now I’ll be direct, and this is certainly nothing personal (a bit long – but I paid Minami to help):

I’m sorry to say that so far I didn’t hear anybody speaking about Free-Art as a good strategy – in the long run. Instead, people are treating it as a schtick. If the reason someone chooses to do so is generosity towards others “skill-less friends” – I want to question it.  

Generosity of an artist can actually become part of the greed in this forum. There are different kinds of generosity – One in which you help others in *need*, and one in which you give something for those who have no need for help. The same act – different context. It is not the same generosity to give money for the survival of a poor man and to give money to a rich person. The first is an act of kindness, the second is an act of stupidity. I can still do both if I enjoy it – but you SHOULD LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF EACH CASE.



 

Giving art away to someone who just asks you to, is giving money to rich people – just look at the libraries with tens or hundreds of drawings from different artists: *Anyone can get a drawing just by writing down one sentence in this forum*. This is how we feed the Greed. And for that *the myth of generosity must be maintained*. And generosity, in our case, is one sided.

I want to do a crazy thing: I’ll post a thread asking “money for nothing” in this forum (I’m drawing my own art, no Patreon, no rewards, just my bank account number). I won’t give anything in return – but I promise to say “thank you” and to tell you how much I appreciate your money. You’ll get as much exposure as I can give with my journal! I’ll publish the fact that you donated money for me! For some reason it is normal for an artist to work for 15-30 minutes on a piece (or 2 hours at least if you’re like me) – but what about the other way around? Anybody can work 15-30 minutes, get a dollar and pay an artist. Let’s see if the generosity will be equal – obviously I’ll be rich in no time.  



 

When artists give art away and get nothing in return – they condemn other low and mid-level artists to gain nothing as well (market effect). We create a system in this forum in which there is no reason for you to give something back for the artist – you can just wait for the “generosity” of the next one. Selfishness of artists wanting to get money, drawings, a story, anything - will lead to a real generosity towards themselves and other creators. It will motivate creators with zero experience to try and draw their own characters instead of begging others. And, if you really have no faith in yourself or you have “no skill” – it is fine! You can work and tip the artist, you can use your whatever skills to give something back to the artist you like. I just refuse to pity others it is not “being nice” – it is pointless and harmful. 



 
Cheers!


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## Pipistrele (May 21, 2017)

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with giving/receiving free art, as long as it's mutualy respectful and benefitical, really. It's a good way to get some practice, make a random folk or two happy, fill up a portfolio, etc. I can see your argument about it not being very good from market standpoint, but that's the thing, it's not always about the market - in fact, more often than not it's just about, well, drawing artwork for the sake of it.

The thing I'm really against, though, is "art leeching" - when people literally camp the exchange subforum to hoard as much free artwork as possible. That's just genuinely disrespectful to the artists, and kind of breaks aforementioned "feel-good" element of giveaways, turning it into an unpleasant crapshow.


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## Drayx (May 21, 2017)

Pipistrele said:


> There's nothing fundamentally wrong with giving/receiving free art, as long as it's mutualy respectful and benefitical, really. It's a good way to get some practice, make a random folk or two happy, fill up a portfolio, etc. I can see your argument about it not being very good from market standpoint, but that's the thing, it's not always about the market - in fact, more often than not it's just about, well, drawing artwork for the sake of it.
> 
> The thing I'm really against, though, is "art leeching" - when people literally camp the exchange subforum to hoard as much free artwork as possible. That's just genuinely disrespectful to the artists, and kind of breaks aforementioned "feel-good" element of giveaways, turning it into an unpleasant crapshow.



Pipi -Why not doing an art-trade? It is your time (or someone else's) - won't you rather use it for a better option? Can you argue that free art is the better option? 

Make a person happy - there are a lot of creators out there! Make them happy! Work with them! 
Practice - every drawing is a practice! so what's the strength of this argument?
Fill up the portfolio - Likewise.
If you create art for the sake of it - do you need another person to tell you what to create? It's contradicting.
Art Leeching - exactly.


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## PencilBrain (May 21, 2017)

Drayx said:


> *Generosity as a tool of Greed*
> 
> If up until now I was quite conservative – now I’ll be direct, and this is certainly nothing personal (a bit long – but I paid Minami to help):
> 
> ...


All of my yes! 100% accurate. Youd have to be a complete fool to disagree with this. So well put. Kudos!


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## Pipistrele (May 21, 2017)

Drayx said:


> Pipi -Why not doing an art-trade? It is your time (or someone else's) - won't you rather use it for a better option? Can you argue that free art is the better option?


I can argue that it is, indeed, an _option_. For example, when you're going to do 5-10 pics for practice/portfolio, it's much easier to just do a raffle than keep track of 5-10 art trades, and considering there are many folks who can't draw but have some cool char designs, you're limiting yourself a lot by severely narrowing the circle of "folks to draw stuff for", even if that may not seem very " productive". Not to mention there's a lot more pressure when it comes to commissions and art trades, which is why it's a good idea to try your hand at requests first, since there are no real obligations, and you can easily turn it off if you don't feel like it or have something more important to do - you don't have to be afraid of botching deadlines and getting yourself into "artists beware" or something, so it's perfect for practice. And again, if not taking that in consideration, it's not all about productivity - some people out there just want to draw stuff for fun and education, you don't have to optimize your decisions for maximum profit at every turn. It's as simple as that .з.
And no, asking somebody to drop me an idea or two is not contradicting. It's just, well, asking somebody to drop me an idea or two - a good way to get myself out of comfort zone. I could potentially turn it into "profit" by asking for money or trades, but I'm ok with that, just wanna draw :b


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## PencilBrain (May 22, 2017)

Not once have i ever asked for free art.
But what we need to do is seperater amature from professional.
Amature artists are hobby illustrators aka not in the profession.
Professionals are yeah you guessed it, in the the illustration profession to make money and support themselves.
I felt like often times the fandom held amatures back from becoming professional by always expecting there to be a freebee artist somewhere and there for never commissioning. 
Why comission when you can just wait for a hand out like the other beggars.
 These people are the reason the fandom has become saturated with idiots that devalue art so bad that its become a social norm to question it as a profession. 
Im enamored by how often i have to repeat myself!
An artist is no different than your local mechanic, your doctor or your landlord.
"Hey landlord can i stay here for free?
 Ill pay you in exposure. 
Your new at this landlord thing right?
 Ill put your name out there"
 and what happens if this hypothetical landlord agrees?
 Well im heckin glad yall asked :3!
 Every bum, sponge and leach comes into ask for their free room too! 
And when this landlord sais no, they leave, and tell all their friends how mean this meanie landlord is. 
The landlord just gave away something he needed to make money on for "exposure" but got a bad rep instead because people who get free shit and only want free shit, only attract more leaches.
Art is no different.
It is a profession and it should be respected as such.
If you dont expect a free room. 
Dont expect free art. 
Period.
Save your money and buy it like everyone else. Support the art trade. 
If you dont.
 It will go away. 
You're not helping.


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## Drayx (May 22, 2017)

Pipistrele said:


> I can argue that it is, indeed, an _option_. For example, when you're going to do 5-10 pics for practice/portfolio, it's much easier to just do a raffle than keep track of 5-10 art trades, and considering there are many folks who can't draw but have some cool char designs, you're limiting yourself a lot by severely narrowing the circle of "folks to draw stuff for", even if that may not seem very " productive". Not to mention there's a lot more pressure when it comes to commissions and art trades, which is why it's a good idea to try your hand at requests first, since there are no real obligations, and you can easily turn it off if you don't feel like it or have something more important to do - you don't have to be afraid of botching deadlines and getting yourself into "artists beware" or something, so it's perfect for practice. And again, if not taking that in consideration, it's not all about productivity - some people out there just want to draw stuff for fun and education, you don't have to optimize your decisions for maximum profit at every turn. It's as simple as that .з.
> And no, asking somebody to drop me an idea or two is not contradicting. It's just, well, asking somebody to drop me an idea or two - a good way to get myself out of comfort zone. I could potentially turn it into "profit" by asking for money or trades, but I'm ok with that, just wanna draw :b



It is an option. *If your value system is: Drawing = fun* = any drawing, no matter what = free art now and then, it is an option. Actually I can't say anything against the argument of fun. If you care only for fun and drawing makes you happy - what more can I say? 

*So I won't*. But *I have other values and agenda* - I care of my art improvement, I want an interesting society, I want to express myself, etc. For me it was super fun to draw to others for free, but for my strategy I want to optimize my skills and communication. 

Actually there was a thread a month ago I just found out about "Do you feel guilty for getting free art" - and all people expressed their care and positive thoughts about art and creators. All agree to behave nice, to be gentle, some willing to pay when they have money, some refuse to get free art or to fill dozen of requests. It was encouraging! I don't want anyone to feel guilty (what am I, the Spanish inquisition?!)  - but we can, perhaps, change the mindset (or express our own opinion) and make good use of this positive motivation. People out there actually care for artists! 

If nothing else, at least we have an interesting discussion here. **


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## Drayx (May 22, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> Not once have i ever asked for free art.
> But what we need to do is seperater amature from professional.
> Amature artists are hobby illustrators aka not in the profession.
> Professionals are yeah you guessed it, in the the illustration profession to make money and support themselves.
> ...



I think that a following thread of 'how to get commissioned' could be really interesting and useful  
There is one good article here, but we kinda lack some more experienced artists sharing their tips.
BTW, the wife of my previous landlord wanted to hire me to paint her daughter with some horses....


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## Pipistrele (May 22, 2017)

Drayx said:


> It is an option. *If your value system is: Drawing = fun* = any drawing, no matter what = free art now and then, it is an option. Actually I can't say anything against the argument of fun. If you care only for fun and drawing makes you happy - what more can I say?
> 
> *So I won't*. But *I have other values and agenda* - I care of my art improvement, I want an interesting society, I want to express myself, etc. For me it was super fun to draw to others for free, but for my strategy I want to optimize my skills and communication.
> 
> ...


Welp, always cool to find a middle ground, hehe c: Thanks for discussion!



PencilBrain said:


> Not once have i ever asked for free art.
> But what we need to do is seperater amature from professional.
> Amature artists are hobby illustrators aka not in the profession.
> Professionals are yeah you guessed it, in the the illustration profession to make money and support themselves.
> ...



Honestly, I'll strongly disagree. Nobody is "shaming" artists into giving away free art - when amateur is ready to become a professional and has enough skill for it, he's free to do just that, and there are many artists who debuted with requests and then went into freelancing or making commissions, and nobody judged them or made weird expectations (quite the opposite, fandom is quite supportive on that matter). As for "People not buying from artists because there's freebs everywhere", that's just a very silly argument, sorry. Free artwork is inconsistent (you never know if you get one or not), varies in quality, style, and is almost always very limited compared to what you can usually buy with money. If you're struggling to compete with_ that_ market, that's a good indication of your artwork not being interesting or good enough to stand out on its own. When you're true professional, people will be like, "Hey, this is an interesting artist - I want artwork *specifically* from that guy, it's worth the price". If they're like, "Nah, it's too expensive for that, I'll better get *anything else *that's available for free", you're not doing good job as a professional, and it's silly to blame market for that, sorry .з.


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## Amiir (May 22, 2017)

Oh I opened commissions at one point but no one came forth to buy any art from me. Guess I'll have to git gudder still


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## Pipistrele (May 22, 2017)

Amiir said:


> Oh I opened commissions at one point but no one came forth to buy any art from me. Guess I'll have to git gudder still


Hey, you did? I'll try to promote you a bit next time, tell me when you're going to repeat that .o.


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## Amiir (May 22, 2017)

Pipistrele said:


> Hey, you did? I'll try to promote you a bit next time, tell me when you're going to repeat that .o.


Ayy thanks man I appreciate that. Next time I'll try to open commissions again I'm gonna extort this favour from you : P


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## PencilBrain (May 22, 2017)

Im willing to guess the people who are failing to make a good argument for free art, dont comission many artists if any. And probably have a large stockpile of free art. But i dont expect people to give up their free shit and support the community just like i cant convince the slugs in my town to get off welfair and go to work.


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## Pipistrele (May 22, 2017)

PencilBrain said:


> Im willing to guess the people who are failing to make a good argument for free art, dont comission many artists if any. And probably have a large stockpile of free art. But i dont expect people to give up their free shit and support the community just like i cant convince the slugs in my town to get off welfair and go to work.


Support the community in what way? It's not like we have a complex economy here - if I give someone money for artwork, nobody's going to benefit from that aside of us two, so let's not pretend there's some "high cause", it's just business. Not to mention people participating in giveaways are supporting the community in a way - it's good both for training aspiring artists to work with ordered artwork in consequence-free conditions, and for giving some competition to artists who would otherwise ask more money for doing less, thus increasing overall quality of professional furry artwork in result.  There are, indeed, some people who just shamelessly hoard artwork, and it is a huge problem in art exchange community, so I can see where your argument is coming from, but opposing the idea of "free commissions" in itself? What objective benefit will it bring to anybody?


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## Doodle Bunny (May 22, 2017)

Free art. Yeah, some mixed feelings about this, but I'm mostly opposed to doing this.

I started out doing requests and free art for the exposure, it didn't really do much for me. I got a couple followers, but in the end it just didn't do much anything for me. Granted, I did like it when people were thrilled with what they got. The attention felt nice and I liked the feeling of making somebody's day. Still, it was cheap attention that didn't last long and it didn't get me work.

Since I started, I have gotten a couple commissions, so I'm very grateful for that. There will probably be long spaces in between, but I expected that would be the case. I just kinda do whatever at this point and throw it on my gallery.


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## Yakamaru (May 22, 2017)

I've come across artists who come off as if they believe they are owed being commissioned by someone. I just ask you to not be one of those people. This is not directed at anyone in this thread.


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## Amiir (May 22, 2017)

I don't quite understand this adversion towards free art. It's not that its mere existence makes it so that commissioned works sell less. I'm not sure how to describe this so let me make a comparison, make it so that you're on Steam and have enough money to buy that Deus Ex game you were looking to purchase. You get a free game or two in the meantime, Team Fortress here, Dota there. Sure you'll be entertained but you won't be satisfied because neither of those games has given you what that you're looking for in that Deus Ex game which only it can provide. You understand what I'm trying to say? Furthermore and probably more importantly, downloading those free games has NOT stripped you of the power to buy that paid game: you _still_ have that money which you can _still_ use


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## WolfNightV4X1 (May 22, 2017)

Drayx said:


> Hi! I gave the example of a sweatshop to question the idea of choice - But in the end we decided not to go to some moral debate. But what you're saying is interesting!
> 
> Let me get this straight - you're saying that a company or a shop that sells hundreds of portions or large quantity food per day, giving small free samples for hundreds of people in order to be familiar with their product and to further advertise themselves - IS THE SAME - as an artist working for an hour or more on a certain piece and giving it to only one person by the end of the day? You make an analogy between mass production establishment giving free samples that requires little investment and the work of a single craftsman?



To be fair most those free works are doodles, in a way it is like the free samples analogy. I think those top tier artists take less than their average time on big pieces, and probably dont do it often anyways.

If their intended goal is fulfilled in the end Im not sure, but that's a different story


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## WolfNightV4X1 (May 22, 2017)

I'll throw in my $0.02.

I've been on both ends, I think. As an artist who also likes receiving art from other and/or better artists.

I originally joined FA via the art exchange, it helped me join the community of artists because I learned there were others out there who do the same thing. I didn't actually join for the free art, I saw other artists doing free art and I wanted to try it. I wasnt great at the time, I can honestly say I've improved since, between the occassions of me drawing my own art and drawing for others.

Now, I'm not a good artist still and I definitely wasnt before. I do art for fun, mainly. I like to satisfy people and make them happy. I honestly dont think Im at a good enough level to sell and dont think I will for awhile. The main reason I dont make art my career is because if I worked to practice harder I'd be competing with other artists for the same space, I'd prefer to get a job elsewhere doing something """"practical"""" (as in, not a service for people recreationally, but I would prefer to work in a service of necessity). When it comes to movies, art, games, etc. It's a hard career to get good in, you have to be the most popular and best of the best to make it, otherwise you're scraping by for money. I would prefer to work a job in something people need instead of what they want.


Going back to my life story, I never really posted in the art exchange unless I aslo provided free art myself. I usually take turns between picking up art requests and making them whenever I felt like it.

Whenever I received an art request I ALWAYS labeled the title and description with who drew it for me. I think never doing that is discrediting any artist, commissioned or not, because its not my work to display.

I also managed to tip an artist here or their for their time, mainly when I had a few spare to do so


I'm also continually broke, I have commissioned a handful of works when I did have money. These days I'm actually scraping by myself and havent had the money for a quarter pound burger in that time. Art is a nice headspace away from reality, though. I like seeing my ideas and concepts come to life, preferably through my own hand but in a way others do it differently (sometimes better). My big dream is to get more commissioned work on a regular basis in the future, but in the meantime those artists that gave me "free shit" have made me immensely satisfied.



In the end I think there'll be a lot of people in the same boat, newbie artists who offer free work, or artists who do it for fun in addition to another career. Those will be the ones who will offer their services for free and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

It's my hope that artists who take themselves seriosuly dont do it for free. If I ever feel I'm good enough someday I may try to figure out how to market my work for others to buy.


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## Drayx (May 22, 2017)

Amiir said:


> I don't quite understand this adversion towards free art. It's not that its mere existence makes it so that commissioned works sell less. I'm not sure how to describe this so let me make a comparison, make it so that you're on Steam and have enough money to buy that Deus Ex game you were looking to purchase. You get a free game or two in the meantime, Team Fortress here, Dota there. Sure you'll be entertained but you won't be satisfied because neither of those games has given you what that you're looking for in that Deus Ex game which only it can provide. You understand what I'm trying to say? Furthermore and probably more importantly, downloading those free games has NOT stripped you of the power to buy that paid game: you _still_ have that money which you can _still_ use



I think that the main argument is not about money at all, but if you insist...
No... I'm not getting it. Maybe it is because of the wine and the late hour, or because of some flaw .... so help me out here:

Deus Ex is like top tier artist (0.5% among the others) - that people will always want commissions from.
Team Fortress is like... middle tier? That you get for free... and while you enjoy his free-art... you decide to spend your money on Deus Ex (top tier artist)... instead of just buying ice cream or fly to Hawaii?...
So if that's true - bread should be free because it is not as tasty as a cake? ... _and the cake is a lie_....
*Meaning that Deus Ex is a lie! *
If Deus Ex = top tier artist - it means that by the time you'll become a top tier artist you'll die of hunger and diseases! _*And your art is a lie!*_

Quite sneaky of you to encode it so well!
I think I got it  (sorry for getting carried away)
The truth is that none of us have the means to prove the behavior of a client. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm wrong. Top tier won't care anyway, for the rest - I'm not so sure.


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## Drayx (May 22, 2017)

WolfNightV4X1 said:


> I'll throw in my $0.02.
> 
> I've been on both ends, I think. As an artist who also likes receiving art from other and/or better artists.
> 
> ...



I think that your story is similar to many. All of us started somewhere (or still starting every day) - nobody becomes skilled without time and practice. What you're practically saying is that you tried to exchange and to contribute, you asked for art and made art and tipped artists, and I wish more people will have the same motivation.


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## Amiir (May 22, 2017)

Drayx said:


> I think that the main argument is not about money at all, but if you insist...
> No... I'm not getting it. Maybe it is because of the wine and the late hour, or because of some flaw .... so help me out here:
> 
> Deus Ex is like top tier artist (0.5% among the others) - that people will always want commissions from.
> ...









 You literally just fucked with my brain you know that?


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## Drayx (May 22, 2017)

Amiir said:


> You literally just fucked with my brain you know that?



Sorry  I need to get some sleep before I'll be causing some brain damage.


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## Zeitzbach (May 23, 2017)

Yakamaru said:


> I've come across artists who come off as if they believe they are owed being commissioned by someone. I just ask you to not be one of those people. This is not directed at anyone in this thread.



Guilt tripping and sob journaling are two of the few things most artists who don't spend time drawing are good at.

Especially if the other side ends up saying "I will commission you when I have the money" because a friend I know literally got a piece after saying that and the dude was like "Pay me when you can".


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## PixelVixen (May 24, 2017)

Hmm, entierely up to the individual I think.

Like Yaka said, unless the artist has told you they're willing to do it for gratis, like as a gift, then you should expect (or be prepared) to pay for a commission. I have recently done a few gifts for people, because I WANTED to do them, so it's no skin off my back. The recipients have been totally grateful for their gift art, and when I do something for free, it's all I ask for really ~ I put time and effort into making it, and even though I have an Adobe subscription to pay for, I totally relish the chance to practice alot more with digital art, and drawing a broad range of characters helps me do that. 

It makes me really happy when people love the art they have received, and as long as people don't start to take advantage and hassle you, I totally don't mind doing it. It's not like I have to rush because I'm under no obligation. As stated on my FA page, I don't accept commissions/art trades, because It's totally not really feasible for me to do so right now ~ when you are commissioned, you're full attention has to be on that commission(s) and I just don't have either the time, nor the committment needed to do it right now. It's a possibility for the future but right now, I'm happy just to get back into doing art for ME, and if I chose to do gift art for someone, it's MY choice  

I'd also like to mention that I never even considered the exposure aspect ~ the gift art I've done so far, (at least from my perpective), was done more as a thank you to the recepients for helping me find my feet in the fandom ~ I don't have real-life friends, and so I was totally grateful for their welcoming attitide and general willingness to interact with me on the forums. 

Just wanted to give my two cents (or would it be pence since I'm British?...)


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