# Hacker in furaffinity???



## chesse20 (Nov 18, 2014)

so from what I'm hearing from the rumors , is that the new coder is hacker who has put viruses in mods and was also putting malicious code in f-list to spy on users? 

 So much for the transparency for fa


----------



## Sylver (Nov 18, 2014)

He's spying on us?

Well shit, I hope he's okay. Some of the shit we're into...he'll need a new pair of eyes after this...


----------



## Lobar (Nov 18, 2014)

The weird thing is that this is like the one time that chesse20 actually isn't trolling.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 18, 2014)

What do you mean with that sarcastic comment, "so much for the transparency"? :/
Dragoneer only kept this admin's identity secret for like a year! That's nothing
He allowed the new admin to come out when he wanted to reveal who he was
Can you get more transparent than that? 
I don't think you can get clearer than frosted glass. Ease up already, sheesh.


----------



## BRN (Nov 18, 2014)

Idgaf. 

Furaffinity doesn't exactly link to my paypal or anything, and the past year hasn't made FA explode, so... this is literally just drama. :?


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 18, 2014)

BRN said:


> Idgaf.
> 
> Furaffinity doesn't exactly link to my paypal or anything, and the past year hasn't made FA explode, so... this is literally just drama. :?



Do you really understand what's been discussed?


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 18, 2014)

I suppose he's referring to some general riffraff from Reddit. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comments/2mmfq6/to_anyone_that_uses_furaffinity_this_is_important/








I fucking love how this has brought the conspiracy nut out in some.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 18, 2014)

Clayton said:


> Do you really understand what's been discussed?



No, he does not. His misplaced loyalty to FA is as such that he was highly exasperated when people moved to Weasyl after Piche's stunt in November. If he dismissed the overwhelmingly justifiable outrage then, he will dismiss it now. "None of our business" I'm sure him and likeminded people are spouting. 

But (not certainly but highly likely) should Zidonuke...well nuke FA as he basically did F-List he's going to put a dent in many artist's livelihoods. Granted they should have a back up source of income, but since they don't and Dragoneer knows this, having a destructive admin on board is troublesome. And deleting (again) anything demanding answers does not bode well at all. 

Sweeping it under the rug as "drama" is what allows the mainsite's hideous "administration" to run rampant.


----------



## Sylver (Nov 18, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> But (not certainly but highly likely) should Zidonuke...well nuke FA as he basically did F-List he's going to put a dent in many artist's livelihoods. Granted they should have a back up source of income, but since they don't and Dragoneer knows this, having a destructive admin on board is troublesome. And deleting (again) anything demanding answers does not bode well at all.



I think I covered this in another thread. A lot of artists submit their art, stories, music, etc. onto numerous sites such as FA, Weasyl, SoFurry, etc. so they would have a following on numerous sites and not just FA. In the event of something such as what you described, they could easily move to one of the other sites they post their stuff on and set up shop there =/

Edit: It seems like a bit of a big risk to take honestly...if he does "nuke" FA and the artists move, then the users will more than likely move with the artists. Sounds like the beginning of the end of FA if that happens =/


----------



## Rekel (Nov 18, 2014)

Could this possibly be linked with my profile inexplicably getting a couple hundred views these past few days? I'm getting a _tad_ nervous.


----------



## Flavur (Nov 18, 2014)

Decided to come back after leaving and see what's been up,
Needless to say:


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 18, 2014)

Oh it's Zidonuke i have heard of him from F-list considering it's best to read the wikifur article about it there's a lot more info about as well as some other things.


----------



## MyLittleFnordy (Nov 18, 2014)

Oh great I just joined and now cyber-attacks... My luck X(


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 18, 2014)

BRN said:


> Idgaf.
> 
> Furaffinity doesn't exactly link to my paypal or anything, and the past year hasn't made FA explode, so... this is literally just drama. :?



It may not heavily impact you or I, but the popular artists on FA might be at risk of some invasion of privacy/leaked personal notes. You have to look at it from their perspective, considering the roots of this new guy.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 18, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> I fucking love how this has brought the conspiracy nut out in some.



I fucking love how genuine concern over actual, well-documented incidents is written off as "lol conspiracy" because of the few that take it a bit too far. 

Not a personal dig at you, but it's something I've been seeing all over the place. Some slightly far-fetched extrapolation does not negate the fact that the incidents they're based on did in fact occur. I can understand the worry over that.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 18, 2014)

I would also like to link this as it documents more coherently Zidonuke's actions as well as what has been taking place recently.
https://forums.vivisector.org/index.php?topic=810.0

It's quite inflammatory so if you're looking to get offended on behalf of a website that does not have your best interest in mind *ever*, remain ignorant and pass over it. Otherwise, fyi.



Sylver said:


> I think I covered this in another thread. A lot of artists submit their art, stories, music, etc. onto numerous sites such as FA, Weasyl, SoFurry, etc. so they would have a following on numerous sites and not just FA. In the event of something such as what you described, they could easily move to one of the other sites they post their stuff on and set up shop there =/
> 
> Edit: It seems like a bit of a big risk to take honestly...if he does "nuke" FA and the artists move, then the users will more than likely move with the artists. Sounds like the beginning of the end of FA if that happens =/



You would be correct in that many have a following on other sites. Though your assumption of a smooth transition would incorrect. The key thing to remember is that FA is the most popular, most relevant which is why many fear doing business elsewhere. It most likely won't bring in the income of FA. The most popular users on FA have a drop in the bucket compared to that when it comes to Weasyl followers. Benji for example has 14000+ watchers on FA compared to the measly (in proportion) 1400+ watchers on Weasyl. 

So you can imagine how dramatic that would be for a smaller artist with say...3000 FA watchers. That's why I said "put a dent in". For many it won't completely ruin their lives, but because of some hacker who does not care for their well being, it will certainly make things much more difficult for quite a few individuals. 

Either way, this is some outside problem no one of any size following should have to worry about. And Dragoneer should have known better, but of course he favors his pals and "popufurs" over the trustworthy and competent which was clear when he put Zaush and Chase in charge of anything beyond scrubbing his toilet.

While it's not that simple, I do see your point and understand where you're coming from. It's why I feel artists need to stay hungry for other outlets, but there is a surprising many grossly settled with FA...


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 18, 2014)

LizardKing said:


> I fucking love how genuine concern over actual, well-documented incidents is written off as "lol conspiracy" because of the few that take it a bit too far.
> 
> Not a personal dig at you, but it's something I've been seeing all over the place. Some slightly far-fetched extrapolation does not negate the fact that the incidents they're based on did in fact occur. I can understand the worry over that.



No no the concern is genuine. 
But....just the whole three page long jpg of several different documented happened, events, and sources has the general feel of every conspiracy throw up ever. It's pretty fucking bad, though, when you check and double check it all actually checks out and seems accurate enough. 

So The Neer this year, to date, has brought on a purported rapist and animal abuser, and a confirmed trouble making coder onto the staff. I feel for y'all decent types. It's like he's building a council of evil around y'all Dr. No style.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 18, 2014)

I don't even use the FA mainsite anymore but there's something that's concerned and irked me for a few days now, and that's the way StarryKitten responded to users who were confused and (understandably) very upset and worried. If you're trying to show that you've turned a new leaf, you don't respond to the panic with something along the lines of:

"(...)but really I'm not wasting my time with you all since you are all pretty openly anti-FA even before I came about."

"not wasting my time with you all"
This coming from an admin who (presumably) wanted to work for the site with the intent of helping the site progress and fix bugs.

I don't like that.


----------



## Migoto Da (Nov 18, 2014)

I'd honestly be lying if I said this surprised me.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 18, 2014)

BRN said:


> Idgaf.
> 
> Furaffinity doesn't exactly link to my paypal or anything, and the past year hasn't made FA explode, so... this is literally just drama. :?



I actually would considering this is not the first time this coder done something consdiering that he worked on several game mods with the same results.
Mainly this one. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_World_Online

EDIT and finding more here but a bit more information about this.
http://pwo-wiki.info/index.php?title=Pokémon_World_Online
http://forum.pokemon-world-online.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11093#p98466
http://www.reddit.com/r/starbound/c...reator_of_the_starrybound_is_the_same/celi1ak
http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDr...veloping_drama_in_rstarbound_as_developer_of/

This is what i've been reading so far and it's quite a serious concern.

And just going to add this since this does not just apply to PWO or F-list but minecraft even.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum...r-administration/1925338-mcbans-discussion#c2


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 18, 2014)

To be fair to Dragoneer, all the competent coders probably burst out laughing when he proposed the notion of them coding his site.

When the heroes deny your quest, turn to the villains.


----------



## Lobar (Nov 18, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> To be fair to Dragoneer, all the competent coders probably burst out laughing when he proposed the notion of them coding his site.
> 
> When the heroes deny your quest, turn to the villains.



He had Ben Anderson and others working on FA until he suddenly brought Zaush on with no warning.


----------



## DarkShadow777 (Nov 18, 2014)

From what I understand, the guy have been working on FA staff for over a year?...
Now I'm confused... I mean, I hope this is not like spitting on your face... I really hope this guy "learned his lesson" and temptation will not be a problem again...

I don't really know anymore...


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 18, 2014)

Lobar said:


> He had Ben Anderson and others working on FA until he suddenly brought Zaush on with no warning.


Well then he's just an idiot.


----------



## Grandpriest8000 (Nov 18, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> To be fair to Dragoneer, all the competent coders probably burst out laughing when he proposed the notion of them coding his site.
> 
> When the heroes deny your quest, turn to the villains.


Or, you know, he could hire competent people that DON'T have an awful record?
But hey, that would suggest that Dragoneer is honest.  Now *that* is something to laugh at.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Nov 18, 2014)

Timelines of the new code head honcho's past have already been linked, what's left to say? A terribly untrustworthy individual has control over your data, artwork and notes alike, because cronyism, and project Phoenix is implied to be dead in the water.

FA is the Soviet Union and Piche is not Stalin, but Brezhnev. Consult your history book of choice to see what that means.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 18, 2014)

DarkShadow777 said:


> From what I understand, the guy have been working on FA staff for over a year?...
> Now I'm confused... I mean, I hope this is not like spitting on your face... I really hope this guy "learned his lesson" and temptation will not be a problem again...
> 
> I don't really know anymore...



That's really amazing if you think about it, just think of all the awesome bug fixes, exploits patched, and features coded on the site since a year ago! Things like...........
.............
Ability to mass delete comments on Fender's journal to speed the site up!


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 18, 2014)

Lobar said:


> He had Ben Anderson and others working on FA until he suddenly brought Zaush on with no warning.



And funny this should happen to Mr. Anderson...







Outstanding how the competent people who are not yes men are removed in some manner while abhorrently untalented, untrustworthy, incompetent _disgusting_ people are put in their place.


----------



## RedSavage (Nov 18, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> And funny this should happen to Mr. Anderson...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Admittedly, I was in that thread where he got banned, and he repeatedly kept pushing forward points after being told to stop under threat of ban. 

_But then again,_ I have yet to see a banhammer fall so quickly upon someone (other than trolls) in lieu of suspension and the likes...


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 18, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> Admittedly, I was in that thread where he got banned, and he repeatedly kept pushing forward points after being told to stop under threat of ban.
> 
> _But then again,_ I have yet to see a banhammer fall so quickly upon someone (other than trolls) in lieu of suspension and the likes...





When you need to pull the trigger, any reason is a good reason.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 18, 2014)

RedSavage said:


> Admittedly, I was in that thread where he got banned, and he repeatedly kept pushing forward points after being told to stop under threat of ban.
> 
> _But then again,_ I have yet to see a banhammer fall so quickly upon someone (other than trolls) in lieu of suspension and the likes...



Yes, I'm aware he was banned for giving answers Piche was trying to hide. As were many people around that time.


----------



## rp (Nov 19, 2014)

Another hilarious chapter in the saga of FA.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 19, 2014)

Grandpriest8000 said:


> Or, you know, he could hire competent people that DON'T have an awful record?
> But hey, that would suggest that Dragoneer is honest.  Now *that* is something to laugh at.



having a history of hacking sites does not make one a bad coder. It just makes them an asshole. Maybe he's learned his lesson though, we'll see.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 19, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Maybe he's learned his lesson though, we'll see.



I don't think "Maybe he learned his lesson" is a good enough reason to hire on this guy, especially for higher up artists. Considering what this guy did with every major community (hacking/spying) he has been apart of "maybe he learned his lesson" was probably the same thing that has been said by the previous victims that have hired this guy.

Tis a bad omen. But what do I know? I'm just a Croc.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm stunned Piche had not intervened in this thread with his innovative brand of "transparency".

EDIT: Hysterical


----------



## Gryphoneer (Nov 19, 2014)




----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 19, 2014)

Funnily enough, Zid was in the comments of that upload talking about how that made his day. Immediately told to leave.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 19, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> I'm stunned Piche had not intervened in this thread with his innovative brand of "transparency".
> 
> EDIT: Hysterical



Sometimes it's best to let things play out.



TheArchiver said:


> Funnily enough, Zid was in the comments of that upload talking about how that made his day. Immediately told to leave.



Rude? So he liked the comic and was told to leave...that seems a bit much.


----------



## Chuchi (Nov 19, 2014)

So, apparently the person in question has stepped down.
That means we're all safe and stuff now, right guys?
Right?


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm willing to give someone a second chance, even if they were a hacker. Hackers can make great website coders because they know where the bugs are -- IF they're no longer a hacker and condemn hacking.. but that's near-impossible to prove.
I'd be willing to give StarryKitten a chance, if he/she didn't make that incredibly rude comment that instantly turned me off of them the first time I ever met them: 
"not wasting my time with you all"

If you're trying to gain trust, you don't tell the userbase of that website these words and expect them to be okay with you, an ex-hacker looking to turn a new leaf.



Chuchi said:


> So, apparently the person in question has stepped down.


Bullshit.
Watch a new random admin account pop up completely unannounced like it did before. (Remember that admin who did nothing, had no history, nothing on their account, and then was suddenly de-staffed?)


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

accidental double post


----------



## Chuchi (Nov 19, 2014)

Clayton said:


> Bullshit.
> Watch a new random admin account pop up completely unannounced like it did before. (Remember that admin who did nothing, had no history, nothing on their account, and then was suddenly de-staffed?)


My bad, forgot to throw a :V in there.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 19, 2014)

First step towards the right direction. 


It's scary to think that someone running such a large site would've considered a hacker a good thing to put behind the control panel. Not to mention the hacker's latest crime wasn't even a year old.

Oh well, back to using FA like nothing ever happened.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> First step towards the right direction.
> 
> 
> It's scary to think that someone running such a large site would've considered a hacker a good thing to put behind the control panel. Not to mention the hacker's latest crime wasn't even a year old.
> ...



But Dragoneer knew them IRL!
If you know someone IRL, that erases all of the shitty things they've done online


----------



## Retskay (Nov 19, 2014)

If some weirdo wants to jerk off to my browser history, have at it. It's just sloppy seconds at that point.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 19, 2014)

Clayton said:


> But Dragoneer knew them IRL!
> If you know someone IRL, that erases all of the shitty things they've done online




To loosely quote a friend of Neer's that was brought on staff, "It's only a crime if you interpret it that way".


But what do I know? I'm just a Croc.


(let's not forget that his recruitment oddly fell in line when the other two jokers were brought on staff a year ago. Huh. I wonder who else was brought on that we aren't aware of yet)


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> To loosely quote a friend of Neer's that was brought on staff, "It's only a crime if you interpret it that way".


Those white-knighty types are the first to squeal when the gun is pointed at them


----------



## GamerFox (Nov 19, 2014)

So is the outage not happening now?


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

GamerFox said:


> So is the outage not happening now?



Those of us who are more easily appeased by bullshit will turn a blind eye and go back to jacking off to furry porn.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 19, 2014)

The site news post was removed off of the website. Croc speculation would have to assume that it was posted by Zidonuke and then later removed by another site administration staff (Probably neer). A pep talk is probably happening as we speak. Croc assumptions state that Neer still wants Zidonuke to work for FA. But what do I know? I'm just a Croc.


Also, I guess the website's 6-8 day maintenance isn't happening as originally scheduled.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 19, 2014)

Now we need to hear a good explanation since a lot of users were being lied to and a lot of trust lost.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> The site news post was removed off of the website. Croc speculation would have to assume that it was posted by Zidonuke and then later removed by another site administration staff (Probably neer). A pep talk is probably happening as we speak. Croc assumptions state that Neer still wants Zidonuke to work for FA. But what do I know? I'm just a Croc.
> 
> 
> Also, I guess the website's 6-8 day maintenance isn't happening as originally scheduled.



Yeah this won't be the end of it.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 19, 2014)

We'll most likely get an administration response/explanation in a week or two. That's how a Croc would handle this sort of deal. I would know this because I am a Croc.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 19, 2014)

Lovely. Now, I wonder who Piche will pull from the Undernet to manage critical areas of the site next. And from what I understand, his "stepping down" was not a quiet one. I'd stay alert for a few days and see what happens as a...response.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 19, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> Lovely. Now, I wonder who Piche will pull from the Undernet to manage critical areas of the site next. And from what I understand, his "stepping down" was not a quiet one. I'd stay alert for a few days and see what happens as a...response.



We've only just begun. 


These fiascoes always last a few weeks.


----------



## Pinky (Nov 19, 2014)

Aww I was just about to go back to F-list. Oh well, at least I don't have my real name and an actual picture of myself on there like a lot of people do.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 19, 2014)

This man's lies are about as see through as an invisible gate with x-ray vision.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 19, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> This man's lies are about as see through as an invisible gate with x-ray vision.



"He was not an admin"
He had @Administrator beside his name, that makes him an admin
Even if he were a coder, you still tacked on the admin powers, which made him an admin/coder.

Examples using the only two coders that have been coders on the site for years:





This implies that in order to get into the site coding, one needs to have admin powers. StarryKitten had admin powers - MAKING THEM AN ADMIN/CODER


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 19, 2014)

Amusing how this kind of stuff is what bring people back for a week or so.



TheArchiver said:


> You would be correct in that many have a following on other sites. Though your assumption of a smooth transition would incorrect. The key thing to remember is that FA is the most popular, most relevant which is why many fear doing business elsewhere.



I thought it was because 90% of popufurs' gallery is prohibited on DA.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 20, 2014)

Zeitzbach said:


> I thought it was because 90% of popufurs' gallery is prohibited on DA.



DA would love for you to think that...


----------



## Zeitzbach (Nov 20, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> DA would love for you to think that...



With how some people I know got temp-ban for posting their badly drawn furry porno with fur covering a bunch of stuffs except for the tiny pointy dicky stabby.

Pretty much.

That and well, if you draw porn, you kind of killed the path to big companies so I can see why they stick to FA where it's a lot easier to get commissions.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Nov 20, 2014)

Chuchi said:


> That means we're all safe and stuff now, right guys?
> Right?


Or it means he's back to being an informal part of the dev team.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 20, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> Comment of the year.



Thanks? You know, think about it, wouldn't it more likely make you a good coder? Keep in mind I'm not talking about morality, I'm talking about quality. I don't even know how to hack and only a little coding (HTML, C, C++, Basic)


----------



## Midnight_Gear (Nov 20, 2014)

I only use weayl and da. Yay for me! Though there's this forum...


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 21, 2014)

So I can assume that weâ€™re never going to get a proper statement from Dragoneer about this whole situation, right? He never seems to address these issues with the general FA userbaseâ€”and when he does, itâ€™s always days or weeks after things have gone DEFCON 1 or on a place where not every FA user follows him (e.g. Twitter).

Youâ€™d think, given how bad FurAffinity PR tends to spread like wildfire amongst furries, that heâ€™d want to address things like this in a timely and public fashion so panic doesnâ€™t ensue.

Then again, maybe Iâ€™m just a dumbass who doesnâ€™t know when to keep his mouth shut.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 21, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> So I can assume that weâ€™re never going to get a proper statement from Dragoneer about this whole situation, right? He never seems to address these issues with the general FA userbaseâ€”and when he does, itâ€™s always days or weeks after things have gone DEFCON 1 or on a place where not every FA user follows him (e.g. Twitter).
> 
> Youâ€™d think, given how bad FurAffinity PR tends to spread like wildfire amongst furries, that heâ€™d want to address things like this in a timely and public fashion so panic doesnâ€™t ensue.
> 
> Then again, maybe Iâ€™m just a dumbass who doesnâ€™t know when to keep his mouth shut.



Sometimes the best way to address an angry crowd is to stay silent, because nothing you say will quell their anger.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Nov 21, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You know, think about it, wouldn't it more likely make you a good coder?


Of course not. A good coder designs in spec, Einstein, and doesn't compromise a project's security paradigm by including backdoors. Even if he doesn't use them eventually, they constitute a vulnerability that can be exploited by a third-party hacker.

A good coder is a reliable coder. Not somebody whose subversion of projects is habitual.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 21, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Sometimes the best way to address an angry crowd is to stay silent, because nothing you say will quell their anger.



Yes, yes, the words you say to protect your reputation can do more harm than good and all that jazz. But Iâ€™m not convinced that Dragoneer canâ€™t even pay lip service to the userbase and address this situation somewhere that the entire userbase can see it.

Itâ€™s not like this is the first time heâ€™s had to deal with a PR debacle. Zaush, Yiffyleaks, the Furocity merger, the numerous attempts to remake/redesign/recode the siteâ€¦all equally awful, and all left virtually unaddressed by â€™Neer in a timely manner. But hey, heâ€™s already fucked up so many times beforeâ€”whatâ€™s one more monumental screw-up? Itâ€™s not like people are leaving _en masse_ to Weasyl or Tumblr or Ello; he doesnâ€™t have to care about how the userbase feels if itâ€™s complaining while staying right where it is.

Knowing that Dragoneer doesnâ€™t have to give a single fuck about the FA userbase because itâ€™s going to keep on using FA anyway is the most depressing aspect of this whole debacle.

As soon as FAâ€™s back to full functionality, Iâ€™m disabling my account. When Dragoneer can act older than the age of this site, I might think about re-enabling it.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 21, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Sometimes the best way to address an angry crowd is to stay silent, because nothing you say will quell their anger.


No.
Not when you're potentially putting private information at risk.
I don't believe the right thing for Dragoneer to do in this situation is to be quiet. I think what he needs to do is to apologize, _get something fucking done on the site, for Christ's sakes those two coders have been on the site since before I joined_, hire competent staff that isn't limited to a friend group, discipline rulebreakers instead of hiding their crimes under the rug, stop backing up criminals through private messages, _take people seriously when they come to you for help_, and make a promise to not fuck up again.
Dragoneer's promises have become useless words to the furry fandom now specifically _because_ they've been promised so many times and broken. It's illogical to put trust in someone when they continuously break your trust. Dragoneer has made many stupid decisions on the website and I genuinely believe that the only way it could even be turned around a tiny bit is if he actually seriously puts a foot forward or if he sells the site to someone more readily interested in doing these things.

For god's sakes, I've been looking around at links regarding this whole thing and I've read that you can even have your acc slowed down and have the website(s) time out for you if you even _dare_ criticise the website. Critism or critique is important for a website to grow, you can't act as if you have your userbase's best interests in mind when you don't take anything they say seriously and never make any motions to show then that you're actually listening.

The only reason why users are still holding onto their accounts there is because they either make the majority of their money there from commissions, or because they're apathetic to the whole thing.
A user should not feel so unsafe on your website because of your staff and your actions that the only reason they're staying is so that they can make enough money to pay rent and buy food.
Apathy is not the solution here and neither is staying silent or making false promises.


----------



## Nanakisan (Nov 21, 2014)

tl:dr'ing all posts except Claytons post regarding starrykitty

Alright so if i understand correctly. We have someone on our Administrator team. Who has a proven background and i repeat this PROVEN BACKGROUND in coding. but because he apparently is some kind of malicious hacker/cracker idgaf etc etc. he's suddenly the target of ohmygosh another DRAGONEER IS SCAMMING US consipracy? Jesus h christ people calm your freaking tits/tentacles/pecs/bellies/what have you. This is almost as bad with what happened when the phoenix project was announced.

I personally do not give 2 flying fat fucks what is going on. What i care about is the fact something is being done at last. Instead of being happy, some people here just want to see a good thing die in a flaming fire pit of doom. It's utterly sickening is what it is. I still hold hope that somewhere we will see a new FA. A glorious update that will make the website perform so much better. But no we get the conspiracy theorists who point and shoot the freaking drama gun. For once can we just ignore what is going on in the background and be happy? ...oh wait what the hell am i saying. This community would rather consume a bottle of paint thinner then be happy.

/rant


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 21, 2014)

And I repeat, sweeping it under the rug as "drama" is what allows the mainsite's hideous "administration" to run rampant.
Thank you for your irrelevant fanboy damage control. It shall be dismissed.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 21, 2014)

Nanakisan said:


> Alright so if i understand correctly. We have someone on our Administrator team. Who has a proven background and i repeat this PROVEN BACKGROUND in coding. but because he apparently is some kind of malicious hacker/cracker idgaf etc etc. he's suddenly the target of ohmygosh another DRAGONEER IS SCAMMING US consipracy?



The person in question (who has supposedly stepped down of their own accord) has a history of malicious hacking that has put user information of several different services at risk for other hackers. Not only did this person leave in backdoors that either they or other hackers could access, they also forced one service (F-List) to essentially shut down for days to fix the problems caused by his malicious acts.

Dragoneer thinks that person is trustworthy enough to put in charge of coding the siteâ€”which, incidentally, would likely grant that person access to the Notes system, wherein he could build a backdoor that would allow him to read FA notes and cause a whole new Yiffyleaks scandal. (Not to mention possibly reporting furriesâ€™ PayPal accounts once he has their PayPal addresses.)

And somehow you donâ€™t see any issue with this.



Nanakisan said:


> This is almost as bad with what happened when the phoenix project was announced.



You say that as if Dragoneer hasnâ€™t made promises that he couldnâ€™t (or wouldnâ€™t) keep. This current project will be theâ€¦what, fourth time heâ€™s promised a whole new FA?



Nanakisan said:


> I personally do not give 2 flying fat fucks what is going on.



Your antipathy is why FA never changes.



Nanakisan said:


> Instead of being happy, some people here just want to see a good thing die in a flaming fire pit of doom.



I donâ€™t want to see FA die. I want to see it run by competent people who give a shit about the people using the siteâ€”and not just the Ã¼ber-popular people.



Nanakisan said:


> I still hold hope that somewhere we will see a new FA.



Donâ€™t trust to hope, especially in regards to FA.



Nanakisan said:


> But no we get the conspiracy theorists who point and shoot the freaking drama gun. For once can we just ignore what is going on in the background and be happy?



Dragoneer put a person with a history of malicious hacking and backdoor programming in charge of coding FA.

And weâ€™re all supposed to overlook that.

Because â€˜dramaâ€™.

â€¦excuse me I need to go take an aspirin and lie down, because your logic just gave me a headache. Or was it the twenty times I banged my head against the wall after reading your post? Either way, I need to rest my brain.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 21, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> (Not to mention possibly reporting furriesâ€™ PayPal accounts once he has their PayPal addresses.)


Jesus, this is a really good point.
We've got users who fear leaving the site because it's their main source of income, and that site is what could get their PayPal reported and closed up.




@Nanakisan:
If "furry drama" is enough to make someone shrug off this scandal, what about the idea that malware could be put onto the site and spread that way? It's been done before a few times, what's to stop it from happening again, but worse?


----------



## crashdoom (Nov 21, 2014)

Clayton said:


> If "furry drama" is enough to make someone shrug off this scandal, what about the idea that malware could be put onto the site and spread that way? It's been done before a few times, what's to stop it from happening again, but worse?



Admittedly, the chance of getting malware on FA is very minor regardless of who is working on it. However, the chance of you getting malware by going onto any site with Google Adverts, or Facebook or your e-mail is significantly higher. Ergo, you've a lot more to worry about regarding your privacy elsewhere than you do here.


----------



## chesse20 (Nov 21, 2014)

I just checked his steam account... 2 vac bans on record lmao


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 21, 2014)

crashdoom said:


> Admittedly, the chance of getting malware on FA is very minor regardless of who is working on it. However, the chance of you getting malware by going onto any site with Google Adverts, or Facebook or your e-mail is significantly higher. Ergo, you've a lot more to worry about regarding your privacy elsewhere than you do here.



It isn't about "which has more of a risk", it's "given what we know about this person's attitude, history, ability to code, and the times someone has done this before, what are the chances this will happen again, but worse?"

Let me repeat:
"I'm not wasting my time with you all" -- said to the userbase on the site he's trying to help

If I were to still use FA, I wouldn't put trust in this coder having my best interests in mind.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 21, 2014)

chesse20 said:


> I just checked his steam account... 2 vac bans on record lmao



damn now how's he gonna clean his floors?


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 21, 2014)

crashdoom said:


> Admittedly, the chance of getting malware on FA is very minor regardless of who is working on it. However, the chance of you getting malware by going onto any site with Google Adverts, or Facebook or your e-mail is significantly higher. Ergo, you've a lot more to worry about regarding your privacy elsewhere than you do here.



You really be wrong on that statement. Considering the virus ads that have been on ads before so i would'nt be surprised about that possibility especially with an old site as FA.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 21, 2014)

Considering the site is held together by Dragoneer juice and K'Nex, I would not be surprised at the easy implementation of malware/viruses. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you can still access the galleries of accounts that have been disabled by the user with an effortless switch of a word in the URL. If there was an oversight that basic, I can only imagine what else can be exploited in a site whose structure looks like swiss cheese.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 21, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> Considering the site is held together by Dragoneer juice and K'Nex, I would not be surprised at the easy implementation of malware/viruses. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you can still access the galleries of accounts that have been disabled by the user with an effortless switch of a word in the URL. If there was an oversight that basic, I can only imagine what else can be exploited in a site whose structure looks like swiss cheese.



And journals, and favorites, scraps, etc.
I just tried it with my own.


----------



## crashdoom (Nov 21, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> You really be wrong on that statement. Considering the virus ads that have been on ads before so i would'nt be surprised about that possibility especially with an old site as FA.



Did you really just say, "you really be wrong"? Anyway, I'm not saying there ISN'T a chance of virus adverts on FA however it's far less likely because unlike other advert solutions, the adverts are checked prior so you are LESS likely not entirely safe. You'll only ever be safe if you don't use the Internet. 




TheArchiver said:


> Considering the site is held together by Dragoneer juice and K'Nex, I would not be surprised at the easy implementation of malware/viruses. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you can still access the galleries of accounts that have been disabled by the user with an effortless switch of a word in the URL. If there was an oversight that basic, I can only imagine what else can be exploited in a site whose structure looks like swiss cheese.



I don't really see that as an oversight, why go to the effort of entirely blocking the gallery access? If there's anything malicious/inappropriate it would be removed regardless so there wouldn't be anything left in their gallery to worry about. THIS IS ASSUMING that all of the inappropriate submissions are removed, mind you, but seeing as they don't show up in the search it's a safe bet. As for user disabling your account, you are only disabling your profile, it says that on the error message.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 21, 2014)

We're _not talking about adverts on FA giving you viruses_, we're talking about the potential for an ex-hacker with obvious lack of concern for the personal accounts of users on websites, the websites themselves, and the users that visit that website, to get mad and do something that would fuck over the userbase. Something that he has *done before, numerous times*.
We're not saying he's doing this, we're not saying he HAS, we're questioning whether or not it could be a thing that he WOULD do and asking people why they still trust the decision of Dragoneer to have hired him onto the coding team and allowed him to access the site code.
He has been a coder on other websites before and has _intentionally left backdoors in codes that would allow other hackers to exploit it_.

What don't you understand?


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 21, 2014)

Seriously crashdoom stop your really are not helping your case at all.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 22, 2014)

RTDragon said:


> Seriously crashdoom stop your really are not helping your case at all.




Ignorance is bliss.


Tis the neer mantra.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Nov 22, 2014)

Coincidink? I THINK NOT


----------



## Duality Jack (Nov 22, 2014)

Eh, unsurprized. I don't really think the staff is even trying anymore.


----------



## Shela-blackblood (Nov 22, 2014)

Meh.. Was he the buttface who was in F-list?


----------



## Duality Jack (Nov 22, 2014)

Shela-blackblood said:


> Meh.. Was he the buttface who was in F-list?


Yup.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 23, 2014)

http://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comments/2n4uis/furaffinity_and_zidonuke_drama_part_iii/

"[7:57:49 PM] Illuminasky: But Zidonukes plan is to actually kill FurAffinity.

  [7:58:08 PM] Illuminasky: We both discussed a plan to take out Dragoneer and reverse engineer our selves into FurAffinity.

  [7:58:25 PM] Illuminasky: But, he became attached to me, and wanted to date me, and it all got strange."

Only this fandom...


----------



## Nanakisan (Nov 23, 2014)

TheArchiver said:


> Only this fandom...



You actually seem surprised by that. What more could you have expected, with people that have permanent brain in gutter syndrome?


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 23, 2014)

One thing I don't understand despite reaching out to the OP on Reddit is that... in the "Part II" of this whole thing, they were receiving info from our very own Crashdoom on these forums. This same user is <3'ing it up on Zidonuke/SK's page as well as kind of defending him and shrugging off what he's doing in this thread.
This to me makes me a little suspicious about the validity of some of the claims that have been made.
Not that my opinion on the whole thing has changed at all..

EDIT: Reading part III here: http://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comments/2n4uis/furaffinity_and_zidonuke_drama_part_iii/

They mention Hasky.. hmm
I remember that username. Ah, that's right, it's one of the newer FAF users who was complaining about users posting malware on FA and it not being fixed, while he himself was doing the _exact same thing_.

and nobody wants to admit that this can be an issue? It's just something to laugh off, that malware and viruses can be so easily posted to the mainsite?

Rose coloured glasses, whatever.


"Hasky has worked on project Phoenix before, and has tried to help FA with bug fixes before"
I suppose this is the only way to get the coders off their asses and get things fixed.. ahah oh wait.. It's still not fixed.

"[11/8/2014 3:56:48 AM] Anon: they should be fixing what i'm doing."
Truer words have never been spoken. That $20,000 that went to a server that's never seen the light of day could have been used to hire a competent coder.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 23, 2014)

I would say I can't believe Dragoneer essentially robbed his community, but I'm more in shock he didn't take more.



Nanakisan said:


> You actually seem surprised by that. What more could you have expected, with people that have permanent brain in gutter syndrome?



Where is the surprise in my tone?


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 23, 2014)

Still waiting on a statement from dragoneer. Least he has the time in his day to fav some rather peculinary images on furaffinity.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 23, 2014)

Croconaw said:


> Still waiting on a statement from dragoneer. Least he has the time in his day to fav some rather peculinary images on furaffinity.



If you held your breath, you'd be dead by now
If it ever does come, it'll be tiptoeing and weasel words.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 24, 2014)

Dragoneer will never make a statement about this situation. Doing so would require him to care about the opinions of FAâ€™s userbase, and we all know he doesnâ€™t give a fuck about those unless said opinions come from a popufur or a close friend.

If Dragoneer actually gave a single nut-encrusted shit about this site and this community, he wouldâ€™ve said something within 24 hours of the Zidonuke dramabomb going off. I'd have even accepted 48 hours so heâ€™d have time to prepare a statement. But if he hasnâ€™t said anything now, he never will.

Only the foolish or ignorant put any form of faith in Dragoneer. Everyone else knows better at this point.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 24, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Dragoneer will never make a statement about this situation. Doing so would require him to care about the opinions of FAâ€™s userbase, and we all know he doesnâ€™t give a fuck about those unless said opinions come from a popufur or a close friend.
> 
> If Dragoneer actually gave a single nut-encrusted shit about this site and this community, he wouldâ€™ve said something within 24 hours of the Zidonuke dramabomb going off. I'd have even accepted 48 hours so heâ€™d have time to prepare a statement. But if he hasnâ€™t said anything now, he never will.
> 
> Only the foolish or ignorant put any form of faith in Dragoneer. Everyone else knows better at this point.



Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 24, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.



And that my friends is what we called damaging your brand and reputation further down the drain, especially if there's a repetitive history of unprofessionalism. 
And considering this is a niche site it's still a business since those who do that still has a right for an explanation. And so far there seems to be none at all yet.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 24, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.



Soâ€¦if Dragoneer talks to the userbase about a situation where their personal information could be at risk of exposure (which could have untold and unforeseen consequences), it wouldâ€¦somehow make him a bad person?

And yeah, he wonâ€™t change my mind unless he legitimately starts taking responsibility for his decisions. When he fucks up, his best course of action would be apologizing and promising to do better; if he fucks up in a way that puts FAâ€™s userbase at risk, he would do well to apologize directly to the userbase. But he doesnâ€™t do it now, he hasnâ€™t done (regularly) it in the past, and I have no faith in him doing it in the future.

You might want to reconsider rewarding someone who lies aboutâ€”and refuses responsibility forâ€”his actions with your unquestioning devotion and blind faith.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 24, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.



... Making a statement on this would be "bowing to (his) level"? Really?
Why would Dragoneer making a statement be a bad thing? Wouldn't that be the mature thing to do?
Even if he wouldn't change Freehaven's or anybody else's opinion on him, wouldn't a statement still be worth it? It's about having a shred of credibility.



Freehaven said:


> And yeah, he wonâ€™t change my mind unless he legitimately starts taking responsibility for his decisions. When he fucks up, his best course of action would be apologizing and promising to do better; if he fucks up in a way that puts FAâ€™s userbase at risk, he would do well to apologize directly to the userbase.



This. I'm willing to give Dragoneer a chance, I'm willing to give anybody a chance, but you can't continuously make the same mistakes and still expect people to sit there and pat you on the back and say "it's cool" every time you do something to this kind of severity. People make mistakes, people fuck up _big time_ sometimes, and that's whatever.. but making decisions that you know the userbase would fear or yell at you for because it puts them _directly_ at risk and then hiding that decision until some magical time when you feel we won't flip out.. that's not cool.
You think about a decision, think about how the users will react, and base it on that. Sometimes decisions need to be made that users might not like, that's whatever, that's something every site has to deal with.. but to make a decision like _this_, knowing that the userbase would react this way.. that's not something that we're going to be willing to say "it's cool, try better next time". It's happened too many damn times to shrug off, something needs to be said to the userbase and there can't be any more fuckups if there's any hope in regaining trust in the community.

You make mistakes and you learn from them. You don't ignore your userbase when you make horrifying decisions and then not say a damn word, expecting people to get over it. Not cool.


----------



## LizardKing (Nov 24, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.



Heaven forbid that maybe it might be for the benefit of other people.


----------



## TheArchiver (Nov 24, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.



Unbelieveable. Actually it's not considering it's _you_ stating this asinine..."logic". 
You're the main one who immediately comes to Piche's defense on these forums much like how you police his Twitter. As if he'll take notice (assuming you aren't a sock puppet) and compensate you. This man has a vast backlog of dirty dealings he needs to answer for, apologize for, and fix. And you think he'd be doing some form of disservice by, for once, doing good by the community he constantly *takes* from? "Bowing down to your level". How pretentious can you be?

Pitiful. 

No, he may not change most of our opinions, _the first good deed he does_. But a consistent positive track record would instill trust from his community or maybe even just one huge favor (overhauling the site).
But by all means, continue your damage control of horrendous administrative practices. You apparently enjoy stagnation.


----------



## Croconaw (Nov 24, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.



Normally I wouldn't slander, but I believe your undying support for Dragoneer is blinding you from the basic procedure behind public relations, especially when many people aren't as informed as the individuals in this thread are. There is a questionable individual on staff and people are wondering what the validity of such accusations are. It is especially important for an official statement to be released, given the admin in question has disabled their account and has made many claims to being a known hacker. Given the amount of known and valid information on the individual in question being Zidonuke, it should be only natural for the userbase to ask for an official response from the head honcho to speak clarity and his thoughts on the situation as a whole as well as to assure that these issues will be addressed. Not doing such makes it seem as though they're either ignorant of the situation as a whole or are simply turning a blind eye to it all (given Dragoneer's previous journal responses, he is an advocate for "Just wait it out")

So if you may, can you please keep your ignorance off of this topic or at least consider the feelings of the FA userbase (the ones who are aware of such a situation and that are worried about using the main site) before you make yourself look like that of a blind follower? Despite our disposition on this all, our request for an official statement would at least behoove those that are in the grey area in this entire matter as a whole.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Nov 25, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Doing so would be bowing to your level. He's not going to change your opinion no matter what he does.


You know, it's common knowledge you're an inveterate white knight, so no fact I could possibly bring forward will change your mind (cognitive dissonance and all that jazz), but consider this. If you frame the issue as Dear Leader stooping to the level of what are basically his customers, you make it sound like the userbase is an unwashed mob of ignorant peasants best to be avoided. Do you know how fucking condescending that is?

And the punchline is he descends to our shared level dozens of times each day, seven days a week, four weeks a month, twelve months a year on Twitter. Oh wait, maybe that's why he can't comment on FA's perennial problems, he's just so busy social-mediasizing!


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 29, 2014)

Well TY for your attempt to bring attention to these holes in the site code, StarryKitten, but it appears it won't be taken seriously by Dragoneer. He hasn't even bothered to make a statement regarding it.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> You know, it's common knowledge you're an inveterate white knight, so no fact I could possibly bring forward will change your mind (cognitive dissonance and all that jazz), but consider this. If you frame the issue as Dear Leader stooping to the level of what are basically his customers, you make it sound like the userbase is an unwashed mob of ignorant peasants best to be avoided. Do you know how fucking condescending that is?
> 
> And the punchline is he descends to our shared level dozens of times each day, seven days a week, four weeks a month, twelve months a year on Twitter. Oh wait, maybe that's why he can't comment on FA's perennial problems, he's just so busy social-mediasizing!



Oh, give me a break. I don't exactly believe in the analogy at this point, but how about this, for example: You have your heart set on marrying this girl, now I seriously try to talk you out of it, but if I know that it's not going to make you change your mind of marriage, then what's the point? I basically just wasted my time.

Back to Neer: do I think he could do better managing the site? Of course. I'm not blind to the past 4-5 years I've been active here.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> You have your heart set on marrying this girl, now I seriously try to talk you out of it, but if I know that it's not going to make you change your mind of marriage, then what's the point? I basically just wasted my time.



Your analogy is flawed in one important way: _it ainâ€™t just one person telling â€™Neer he fucked up_.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> Your analogy is flawed in one important way: _it ainâ€™t just one person telling â€™Neer he fucked up_.



Maybe not, but I don't think it's a majority either. You realize how many people use this site compared to how many are vocal about this?

Besides, I was actually using the analogy in the opposite direction...in regards to what 'Neer says, you'll still have the same opinion as before.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Maybe not, but I don't think it's a majority either. You realize how many people use this site compared to how many are vocal about this?



There is still a substantial amount of users being vocal about thisâ€”and Iâ€™d bet on most of the talk about it happening off-site, since Dragoneer has banned/suspended people in the past for daring to criticize Dear Leader and his Glorious Furry Empire on-site.

But yeah, keep telling me why Dragoneer is doing the smart thing by refusing to talk about how he gave a person with malicious hacking experience access to the FA codebase (either old or new).

Shit, Weasyl is being accused of _protecting a rapist_ by forcing down a callout journal, and theyâ€™re going to address the accusations (and their callout journal policies) later today. Dragoneer has no fucking excuse to have avoided talking about the Zidonuke situation once his hacking history came to light.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> There is still a substantial amount of users being vocal about thisâ€”and Iâ€™d bet on most of the talk about it happening off-site, since Dragoneer has banned/suspended people in the past for daring to criticize Dear Leader and his Glorious Furry Empire on-site.
> 
> But yeah, keep telling me why Dragoneer is doing the smart thing by refusing to talk about how he gave a person with malicious hacking experience access to the FA codebase (either old or new).
> 
> Shit, Weasyl is being accused of _protecting a rapist_ by forcing down a callout journal, and theyâ€™re going to address the accusations (and their callout journal policies) later today. Dragoneer has no fucking excuse to have avoided talking about the Zidonuke situation once his hacking history came to light.



Yeah, you would bet on that.

I'm not going to make excuses from Dragoneer. But I don't care if he talks about it...the guy resigned. 

And let's see how this situation on Weasyl goes down. This oughta be good.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm not going to make excuses from Dragoneer. But I don't care if he talks about it...the guy resigned.



You say youâ€™re not going to make excuses for himâ€¦and then you immediately give him an excuse for refusing to address the Zidonuke situation.

Try not doing 180Â° turns so fast in the future. You may end up causing someoneâ€™s head to fall off.


----------



## nrr (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Back to Neer: do I think he could do better managing the site? Of course. I'm not blind to the past 4-5 years I've been active here.



I'm going to chime in here. Those of you know me, know me. Those of you don't probably already think of me as a douche by going through my post history. (If you haven't done it yet, go through my posts from 2005-2007. There aren't _that_ many of them.)

Actually, you know what? I've said before what I intended to say here; I don't need to repeat myself.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> You say youâ€™re not going to make excuses for himâ€¦and then you immediately give him an excuse for refusing to address the Zidonuke situation.
> 
> Try not doing 180Â° turns so fast in the future. You may end up causing someoneâ€™s head to fall off.



...yours? Here's hoping.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 30, 2014)

Pheagle, numerous users have been banned from FA for criticizing how this has been handled.
Honestly, how long are you going to stand for this?


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Clayton said:


> Pheagle, numerous users have been banned from FA for criticizing how this has been handled.
> Honestly, how long are you going to stand for this?



Dude, this isn't my fight, and I know what got these guys banned. It's not a favorable outcome, but they way they approached criticism was less than ideal.


----------



## Socks the Fox (Nov 30, 2014)

I'd apply to be an FA staff member but I haven't done anything illegal so I wouldn't get the job.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Socks the Fox said:


> I'd apply to be an FA staff member but I haven't done anything illegal so I wouldn't get the job.



That's not a quality they look for, please stop kidding yourself.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> Dude, this isn't my fight, and I know what got these guys banned. It's not a favorable outcome, but they way they approached criticism was less than ideal.



_I will use whatever motherfucking language I want in any shitty thing I write, and you donâ€™t have (and will never get) the right or the privilege to tell me otherwise._

Their criticism should not have to come in an â€˜easily-digestableâ€™ form for it to matter. And by all means, show me the rules that say you cannot either criticize FA on-site or do so with vile and venom and anger most foul.

Dear Leader might want to protect his Glorious Furry Empire from being tarnished, but bans/suspensions for people who use â€˜foulâ€™ language wonâ€™t protect it forever. And unlike Dragoneer, other art sites actually go on the record in a timely manner about situations that can affect the larger userbase.

When people want to fucking complain, you have to look past the anger and the vitriol. See the true nature of their complaint, address it in as timely a fashion as possible, and use as much detail as necessary to quell the rage. You wonâ€™t always win, but making the attempt is better than staying silent and banning those who wonâ€™t dig their head in the ground.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> _I will use whatever motherfucking language I want in any shitty thing I write, and you donâ€™t have (and will never get) the right or the privilege to tell me otherwise._
> 
> Their criticism should not have to come in an â€˜easily-digestableâ€™ form for it to matter. And by all means, show me the rules that say you cannot either criticize FA on-site or do so with vile and venom and anger most foul.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure there's a rule against inciting drama. And if you think I was referring to you with my last post, you're very narcissistic.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm pretty sure there's a rule against inciting drama.



If questioning Dragoneerâ€™s decision to put a person with known malicious hacking experience on site staff is â€˜inciting dramaâ€™, Iâ€™ll take my fucking ban right now.

_Questioning the decisions of staff should not be grounds for a goddamn ban._



PheagleAdler said:


> And if you think I was referring to you with my last post, you're very narcissistic.



I didnâ€™t think you were. I was merely repeating a sentence I used to remind you that _you don't get to play tone police_.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> That's not a quality they look for, please stop kidding yourself.



There's truth in the sarcasm.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven said:


> If questioning Dragoneerâ€™s decision to put a person with known malicious hacking experience on site staff is â€˜inciting dramaâ€™, Iâ€™ll take my fucking ban right now.
> 
> _Questioning the decisions of staff should not be grounds for a goddamn ban._
> 
> ...



I'm not playing 'tone police' I'm simply warning you that such language can get you in trouble.


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 30, 2014)

Freehaven isn't saying or doing anything that's against the rules, and the fact that you think he _is_ is a problem. He's merely criticising how things are being handled (or not handled...?)


----------



## PheagleAdler (Nov 30, 2014)

Clayton said:


> Freehaven isn't saying or doing anything that's against the rules, and the fact that you think he _is_ is a problem. He's merely criticising how things are being handled (or not handled...?)



I'm saying criticizing without swearing is much easier to do than criticizing while swearing. I'm not saying swearing itself is against the rules, but inciting drama is.


----------



## Freehaven (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm not playing 'tone police' I'm simply warning you that such language can get you in trouble.



And who the fuck are you to warn me about a goddamn thing? Who the fuck are you to tell me that I can or cannot, should or should not, will or will not say certain words/phrases?

_Who the fuck died and made you the judge of what tone people can use in their writing?_


----------



## Volkodav (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm saying criticizing without swearing is much easier to do than criticizing while swearing. I'm not saying swearing itself is against the rules, but inciting drama is.



What is "inciting drama"?


----------



## Mentova (Nov 30, 2014)

Alright guys, chill out. Keep things civil.


----------



## RTDragon (Nov 30, 2014)

PheagleAdler said:


> I'm saying criticizing without swearing is much easier to do than criticizing while swearing. I'm not saying swearing itself is against the rules, but inciting drama is.



Actually your the one that inciting drama so far all you have done instead of a civil discussion is insult those who bring good civil points that you can't even refute to at all. So basically you don't like people criticizing the site or your opinions.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 1, 2014)

Clayton said:


> What is "inciting drama"?


Code for rocking the boat.


----------



## PheagleAdler (Dec 1, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> Code for rocking the boat.



Don't rock the boat, baby. 
Don't tip the boat over.


----------



## Duality Jack (Dec 1, 2014)

Gryphoneer said:


> Code for rocking the boat.


If the boat can't take the rocking, It shouldn't float to begin with.


----------



## LizardKing (Dec 1, 2014)

Jack Arclight said:


> If the boat can't take the rocking, It shouldn't float to begin with.



A sieve will float if you have enough people throwing money into water out of it


----------



## Duality Jack (Dec 1, 2014)

LizardKing said:


> A sieve will float if you have enough people throwing money into water out of it


 Another saying saying comes to mind "Just because you can doesn't mean you should"


----------



## Volkodav (Dec 1, 2014)

That's not what I meant, guys. I was asking what is considered "inciting drama" in the context of this situation or this website.


----------



## Duality Jack (Dec 1, 2014)

Clayton said:


> That's not what I meant, guys. I was asking what is considered "inciting drama" in the context of this situation or this website.


Speaking ill of staff or the site in context of effectiveness could be seen as generating discontent and drama regardless of merit of the comments.


----------

