# I'm starting to question things again



## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 24, 2020)

This is kinda just a place to put what I'm feeling into words.
Ok. So. I've been slowly feeling more and more feminine (I'm a male by birth) and at first I was like, "Ok ok so maybe I'm a femboy?" And that still feels right and all but now I'm experiencing body dysphoria, annoyance or discomfort with my body, mainly my genitals for me, and it's not really a pronouns thing *yet* but I might be on the way there? I asked my friends at school to help me learn more about labels that might match what I'm feeling and so far, I've only got transfem. My parents aren't very supportive of LGBTQIA+ in general so I'm absolutely not telling them anything yet because I'm still a minor and I don't want to deal with their condescension any more than I have to. My friends are all super supportive and one of them is similar to me except he's transmasc.
So yea just wanted somewhere to put my feels into words!

Edit: I forgot to explain the "again" in the title, sorry! So I already questioned by sexuality and figured that out for now. I'm pansexual/panromantic and demisexual. Now for the gender! Fuuuuunnnnnn


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## VeeStars (Nov 24, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> This is kinda just a place to put what I'm feeling into words.
> Ok. So. I've been slowly feeling more and more feminine (I'm a male by birth) and at first I was like, "Ok ok so maybe I'm a femboy?" And that still feels right and all but now I'm experiencing body dysphoria, annoyance or discomfort with my body, mainly my genitals for me, and it's not really a pronouns thing *yet* but I might be on the way there? I asked my friends at school to help me learn more about labels that might match what I'm feeling and so far, I've only got transfem. My parents aren't very supportive of LGBTQIA+ in general so I'm absolutely not telling them anything yet because I'm still a minor and I don't want to deal with their condescension any more than I have to. My friends are all super supportive and one of them is similar to me except he's transmasc.
> So yea just wanted somewhere to put my feels into words!


Hey, maybe you wanna try out female pronouns? Even if you don't like them, it wouldn't hurt to try. Maybe try to tell your friends you wanna test out how female pronouns make you feel. They seem very supportive and won't judge if they end up not fitting you. I was very unsure about my gender until I got some people to start using she/her pronouns and I fell in love with them immediately. Just throwing this out there. I'm still learning about myself and growing, and it's totally okay to explore yourself. If you ever need help or anything, my DM's are open! ^w^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 24, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Hey, maybe you wanna try out female pronouns? Even if you don't like them, it wouldn't hurt to try. Maybe try to tell your friends you wanna test out how female pronouns make you feel. They seem very supportive and won't judge if they end up not fitting you. I was very unsure about my gender until I got some people to start using she/her pronouns and I fell in love with them immediately. Just throwing this out there. I'm still learning about myself and growing, and it's totally okay to explore yourself. If you ever need help or anything, my DM's are open! ^w^


Thanks for the suggestion! I've thought about it but I don't really care (not exactly the right way to explain it but I'm not good at explaining things XD) about my pronouns a lot. I feel like it'd make me uncomfortable to be called she/her while being male. I think it's just the insecurity of this being a new situation cuz I was like that when I was questioning my sexuality too. I had to get comfortable referring to *myself* that way before telling others that's my sexuality. Who knows? Maybe that (your idea) would work. I'll tell my friends they can use she/her pronouns if they want. 

By the way, sorry! I didn't know this wouldn't be immediately ok as a public post. Should I have messaged a staff member first?


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## Frank Gulotta (Nov 25, 2020)

Why put everything in narrow boxes? you can like feminine stuff and be a man can't you?


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## quoting_mungo (Nov 25, 2020)

Figuring out who you are is an important and often rough part of growing up. For you, it seems like it might be worth keeping in mind that gender is a spectrum. (I’m personally iffy on that word but it’s the best I have; I don’t necessarily believe that every gender identity can be mapped as a point on a line like “spectrum” suggests.) It took me over thirty years before I found that “genderqueer” fits my experience of gender best. Ultimately labels are only labels, and while useful in many ways each label will contain a multitude of experiences.

It sounds like you have a good friend group, and I’m happy for you that you have that support!

I don’t 100% agree with everything on the page, and I don’t think that any list can be treated as exhaustive, but if you want to read up on non-binary identities there’s a pretty decent page on the gender wiki; I imagine the wider wiki will have more information on gender and gender identities  in general.


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I've thought about it but I don't really care (not exactly the right way to explain it but I'm not good at explaining things XD) about my pronouns a lot. I feel like it'd make me uncomfortable to be called she/her while being male. I think it's just the insecurity of this being a new situation cuz I was like that when I was questioning my sexuality too. I had to get comfortable referring to *myself* that way before telling others that's my sexuality. Who knows? Maybe that (your idea) would work. I'll tell my friends they can use she/her pronouns if they want.
> 
> By the way, sorry! I didn't know this wouldn't be immediately ok as a public post. Should I have messaged a staff member first?


Ah, ok, I was wondering why you deleted it and was about to DM you. :3

Try this site. It lets you put in name and pronouns and generates a few short stories with the name and pronouns you chose in them. Try out feminine pronouns, try out they/them, try out whatever. If one makes you happy, that might be the one. As I said, have your friends try it. If it doesn't work out, you can always just be a feminine dude or any of the other gender identities. You do you!



			Pronoun Dressing Room
		




Frank Gulotta said:


> Why put everything in narrow boxes? you can like feminine stuff and be a man can't you?


They said they felt feminine, and they also started to feel dysphoria or at least noticed it recently, which is why I suggested it. Dysphoria sucks, luckily I don't experience it too bad, but some of my friends do and it really sucks.

Edit: I just suggested they try female pronouns out. I didn't say for them to completely transition or anything. And as a guy, you can like feminine things. No one's stopping you.
Edit 2: forgot the link of the site like an idiot x3


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Why put everything in narrow boxes? you can like feminine stuff and be a man can't you?


That's the thing though! I don't want to be male and have male parts. Granted, I don't want to deal with periods but that's the only downside I can see to being female.


quoting_mungo said:


> Figuring out who you are is an important and often rough part of growing up. For you, it seems like it might be worth keeping in mind that gender is a spectrum. (I’m personally iffy on that word but it’s the best I have; I don’t necessarily believe that every gender identity can be mapped as a point on a line like “spectrum” suggests.) It took me over thirty years before I found that “genderqueer” fits my experience of gender best. Ultimately labels are only labels, and while useful in many ways each label will contain a multitude of experiences.
> 
> It sounds like you have a good friend group, and I’m happy for you that you have that support!
> 
> I don’t 100% agree with everything on the page, and I don’t think that any list can be treated as exhaustive, but if you want to read up on non-binary identities there’s a pretty decent page on the gender wiki; I imagine the wider wiki will have more information on gender and gender identities  in general.


Thanks! I'll check it out!


VeeStars said:


> Ah, ok, I was wondering why you deleted it and was about to DM you. :3
> 
> Try this site. It lets you put in name and pronouns and generates a few short stories with the name and pronouns you chose in them. Try out feminine pronouns, try out they/them, try out whatever. If one makes you happy, that might be the one. As I said, have your friends try it. If it doesn't work out, you can always just be a feminine dude or any of the other gender identities. You do you!
> 
> ...


At first, I thought I was just a feminine guy but then the dysphoria started (or at least, I started noticing) and I started thinking I'd be more comfortable as a  female but like I said before, I don't want to deal with periods. I'll check the site out! The dysphoria for me is constant and I'm always insecure about it. I don't know how that ranks on the scale but yea XD
Isn't there medicine or something to at least gain a slightly more feminine figure? I asked my friends but they said it doesn't change genitalia, jus does a little weight redistribution.


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> That's the thing though! I don't want to be male and have male parts. Granted, I don't want to deal with periods but that's the only downside I can see to being female.
> 
> Thanks! I'll check it out!
> 
> ...


I'm sorry/glad to say you won't be able to have periods, at least from what I know. Maybe there is some space-age surgery for that, but idk. I'm also sorry to say that you are a little while off from physically changing your sex. Try out feminine pronouns and slowly transition if it feels comfortable, but I'm pretty sure you have to speak to many therapists before you can get hormones/surgery. Have a little fun researching, ask me if you need hlep. :3


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## Frank Gulotta (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> That's the thing though! I don't want to be male and have male parts. Granted, I don't want to deal with periods but that's the only downside I can see to being female.


That didn't answer my question but OK


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## Kumali (Nov 25, 2020)

For inspiration I'd suggest checking out rock singer/songwriter Ezra Furman. Furman is AMAB and as far as I know isn't planning on surgically transitioning, but has gradually shifted from using male pronouns to not particularly caring to most recently using either female pronouns or they/them. Also has a very genderfluid personal style as regards clothing and makeup and so forth, leaning heavily toward the feminine. Google her and read a few interviews and/or check her out on Twitter - her journey is a fascinating one and she's very open about it. 

(And yes, I'm a fan; in fact it was @Simo who turned me on to her. Seen her in concert twice and have seven of her albums.)


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> That didn't answer my question but OK


You also completely ignored my response to you, which I expected from you :/


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> That didn't answer my question but OK


It didn't? Sorry! I guess it is possible to be feminine and still be a guy (femboys) but it's like that feeling of being feminine escalated and now I want to more than just a feminine guy.


VeeStars said:


> I'm sorry/glad to say you won't be able to have periods, at least from what I know. Maybe there is some space-age surgery for that, but idk. I'm also sorry to say that you are a little while off from physically changing your sex. Try out feminine pronouns and slowly transition if it feels comfortable, but I'm pretty sure you have to speak to many therapists before you can get hormones/surgery. Have a little fun researching, ask me if you need hlep. :3


Yeah, I won't be able to change that much anytime soon but maybe in the future! Hopefully in the future XD


Kumali said:


> For inspiration I'd suggest checking out rock singer/songwriter Ezra Furman. Furman is AMAB and as far as I know isn't planning on surgically transitioning, but has gradually shifted from using male pronouns to not particularly caring to most recently using either female pronouns or they/them. Also has a very genderfluid personal style as regards clothing and makeup and so forth, leaning heavily toward the feminine. Google her and read a few interviews and/or check her out on Twitter - her journey is a fascinating one and she's very open about it.
> 
> (And yes, I'm a fan; in fact it was @Simo who turned me on to her. Seen her in concert twice and have seven of her albums.)


Thanks for the suggestion! I may try that.


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> It didn't? Sorry! I guess it is possible to be feminine and still be a guy (femboys) but it's like that feeling of being feminine escalated and now I want to more than just a feminine guy.
> 
> Yeah, I won't be able to change that much anytime soon but maybe in the future! Hopefully in the future XD
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion! I may try that.


You are valid <3.

I'm still figuring myself out just like you, and it's a long, long road but you will make it in the end. You just gotta put one foot in front of the other. You can do this!

Edit: maybe put your pronouns in your signature, and see how people respond. Should I call you by she/her?


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> You are valid <3.
> 
> I'm still figuring myself out just like you, and it's a long, long road but you will make it in the end. You just gotta put one foot in front of the other. You can do this!
> 
> Edit: maybe put your pronouns in your signature, and see how people respond. Should I call you by she/her?


Thank you! And yeah, maybe I'll try that out before asking my irl friends to do it. Get used to it a little bit first, you know?


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## mangomango (Nov 25, 2020)

I'm happy for you that you're beginning to try things out! A good way to think about it in addition to dysphoria is gender euphoria - what makes you feel good about your gender and yourself? Is it certain pronouns, dressing a certain way, being seen a certain way, etc.? Everyone has different experiences regarding how they feel about different pronouns, attire, etc., so putting a bit of thought into what makes you happy is a good place to start! ^w^


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Thank you! And yeah, maybe I'll try that out before asking my irl friends to do it. Get used to it a little bit first, you know?


Yeah, good plan. 



mangomango said:


> I'm happy for you that you're beginning to try things out! A good way to think about it in addition to dysphoria is gender euphoria - what makes you feel good about your gender and yourself? Is it certain pronouns, dressing a certain way, being seen a certain way, etc.? Everyone has different experiences regarding how they feel about different pronouns, attire, etc., so putting a bit of thought into what makes you happy is a good place to start! ^w^


Yup, gender euphoria is just as valid as dysphoria. For example, female pronouns made me really happy and giddy, so I knew I was on the right track. (if you are wondering why I am not using them, it's a masc day <3)


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

mangomango said:


> I'm happy for you that you're beginning to try things out! A good way to think about it in addition to dysphoria is gender euphoria - what makes you feel good about your gender and yourself? Is it certain pronouns, dressing a certain way, being seen a certain way, etc.? Everyone has different experiences regarding how they feel about different pronouns, attire, etc., so putting a bit of thought into what makes you happy is a good place to start! ^w^


I don't what would make me happy like that yet and I can't get feminine clothes since my parents aren't super supportive about anything involving LGBTQIA+ things. Plus, I really like wearing baggy pants and hoodies that are way too big so not much to change there yet  XD


VeeStars said:


> Yeah, good plan.
> 
> 
> Yup, gender euphoria is just as valid as dysphoria. For example, female pronouns made me really happy and giddy, so I knew I was on the right track. (if you are wondering why I am not using them, it's a masc day <3)


I've actually had a dream or two and the people in my dream called me she/her and in the dream it felt super normal like, "Why wouldn't call me that?" But when I woke up it was weird since wasn't quite on this track yet, still comfortable being a feminine guy. Now that I think about it... Those dreams might've been what started this... *intense thinking because there isn't an emoji for it*


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I don't what would make me happy like that yet and I can't get feminine clothes since my parents aren't super supportive about anything involving LGBTQIA+ things. Plus, I really like wearing baggy pants and hoodies that are way too big so not much to change there yet  XD
> 
> I've actually had a dream or two and the people in my dream called me she/her and in the dream it felt super normal like, "Why wouldn't call me that?" But when I woke up it was weird since wasn't quite on this track yet, still comfortable being a feminine guy. Now that I think about it... Those dreams might've been what started this... *intense thinking because there isn't an emoji for it*


Everyone chooses to express their gender differently, so it doesn't make you any less valid that you don't dress feminine. If you are dreaming about it, maybe your brain is sending you secret messages *hmmm*


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Everyone chooses to express their gender differently, so it doesn't make you any less valid that you don't dress feminine. If you are dreaming about it, maybe your brain is sending you secret messages *hmmm*


Yea maybe! There have also been times when I was shoe shopping and I wanted girl shoes just because they looked nice and my favourite colours (purple mainly) but my mother would say they were girl shoes and look at me like it was a joke... Wait, that sounds a little worse than it actually was but that's how it happened. Now I just stay away from the girl stuff in general or stay silent about things I'd want to try.

Question: Is there anything against venting in a post? I don't think this counts as a vent but I don't know XD


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Yea maybe! There have also been times when I was shoe shopping and I wanted girl shoes just because they looked nice and my favourite colours (purple mainly) but my mother would say they were girl shoes and look at me like it was a joke... Wait, that sounds a little worse than it actually was but that's how it happened. Now I just stay away from the girl stuff in general or stay silent about things I'd want to try.
> 
> Question: Is there anything against venting in a post? I don't think this counts as a vent but I don't know XD


Nope, nothing against venting. Venting is healthy. If you have major vents, the vent thread is meant for that :3


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## Deleted member 115426 (Nov 25, 2020)

Femboys really don't exist in the real world. From what I've seen of femboy art they have female bone structure. You can of course be a feminine guy still. I just get annoyed when people try to say femboy is an actual thing.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Nope, nothing against venting. Venting is healthy. If you have major vents, the vent thread is meant for that :3


Ok! I just didn't want to get this thing taken down again! XD
Thank you for being so helpful and kind! This is why I like furry forums, everyone is so nice and understanding!


Ovidia Dragoness said:


> Femboys really don't exist in the real world. From what I've seen of femboy art they have female bone structure. You can of course be a feminine guy still. I just get annoyed when people try to say femboy is an actual thing.


Femboys do exist, they just don't look like they do in art.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Ok! I just didn't want to get this thing taken down again! XD
> Thank you for being so helpful and kind! This is why I like furry forums, everyone is so nice and understanding!
> 
> Femboys do exist, they just don't look like they do in art.


What makes someone a femboy then?


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

I'm a femboy but only in spirit....
*cries in big masculine hairy dude*


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## Deleted member 115426 (Nov 25, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> I'm a femboy but only in spirit....
> *cries in big masculine hairy dude*


Nuuuuuu don't cry


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

Ovidia Dragoness said:


> Nuuuuuu don't cry


:c


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

Ovidia Dragoness said:


> What makes someone a femboy then?


What makes someone a tomboy? It's all about feeling. A tomboy feels more masculine than most girls, I think, but still uses she/her pronouns and identifies as a girl. It's the same with femboys!


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## Deleted member 115426 (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> What makes someone a tomboy? It's all about feeling. A tomboy feels more masculine than most girls, I think, but still uses she/her pronouns and identifies as a girl. It's the same with femboys!


Meh. It's not a worthwhile arguement. I just think we should distinguish art from reality.  You do you I guess.


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

There are definitely feminine guys out there, it's just not as accepted for a guy to be feminine as it is for a woman to be masculine it seems


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## ConorHyena (Nov 25, 2020)

Ovidia Dragoness said:


> Femboys really don't exist in the real world. From what I've seen of femboy art they have female bone structure. You can of course be a feminine guy still. I just get annoyed when people try to say femboy is an actual thing.



there's a lot of very feminine boys out there. Furry art's just not necessary a good thing to judge things by. I've dated a guy a few years back who was definitly feminine enough to be mistake for a girl while still being a guy (and being cis about it) Imo femboy is a physical descriptor only, so it only applies towards guys that are feminine (in dress, appearance and phsysical features).



VeeStars said:


> There are definitely feminine guys out there, it's just not as accepted for a guy to be feminine as it is for a woman to be masculine it seems



I think if you deviate from the norm at any given time you're gonna get shit over it. It's part of the harsh truths of life.

@OP - My suggestion would be to relax and go with the flow, especially if your still younger (you mentioned you were a minor) Nothing's fixed at that age and I wouldn't try and fix it by strenously attempting to apply labels - just do what feels good and is reasonable for you. It's a journey, you'll see where you end up in due time. I can see how labels can be comforting (I had issues with my sexuality too until I found a lable that's appropriate) but don't try to make things fit that doesn't. In the end, it's not as important. be yourself, it's the only person you can be


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> I think if you deviate from the norm at any given time you're gonna get shit over it. It's part of the harsh truths of life.


Yeah, and it doesn't help that here in the states, everything is so pointlessly gendered. Like why are there different gender earplugs, THEY ARE FUCKING EARPLUGS WE ALL HAVE EARS.

But yeah, if you're a guy, you get shit for not being a big strong man and showing emotions, and doing feminine things and get called gay and such. As a women, you get shit for not being the perfect housewife and liking sports and stuff. It's quite shitty :c


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## ConorHyena (Nov 25, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Yeah, and it doesn't help that here in the states, everything is so pointlessly gendered. Like why are there different gender earplugs, THEY ARE FUCKING EARPLUGS WE ALL HAVE EARS.
> 
> But yeah, if you're a guy, you get shit for not being a big strong man and showing emotions, and doing feminine things and get called gay and such. As a women, you get shit for not being the perfect housewife and liking sports and stuff. It's quite shitty :c



there's also the 'your gay but your not feminine you can't be properly gay' 

I've experienced that, it's rather ridiculous. But it happens _anywhere. _In any sort of enviroment and for any sort of reason. is just be how it is.


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## VeeStars (Nov 25, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> there's also the 'your gay but your not feminine you can't be properly gay'
> 
> I've experienced that, it's rather ridiculous. But it happens _anywhere. _In any sort of enviroment and for any sort of reason. is just be how it is.


Yeah, and also the quite harmful stereotypes that all gay men are just pink princesses that spend time with exclusively women and have tea parties and shit. No, being gay does not influence your personality, it just means you like guys. There are traditionally masculine gay guys. I should probably stop ranting here, this isn't the vent thread x3

I wish @Alyx_0_0 well!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> there's a lot of very feminine boys out there. Furry art's just not necessary a good thing to judge things by. I've dated a guy a few years back who was definitly feminine enough to be mistake for a girl while still being a guy (and being cis about it) Imo femboy is a physical descriptor only, so it only applies towards guys that are feminine (in dress, appearance and phsysical features).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really like labels because they make things easier to explain. But I'm definitely not sticking to any labels indefinitely! I was fine being just feminine guy using femboy as a label until this started and now I've moved on from that, ready for the next thing that'll hopefully simplify my explanations XD
And yes, I'm a minor, still in high school. I think I said it earlier but I have a friend going through something similar and he's had more time to get used to it. He introduced me to the term transmasc and told what it means for him. It really describes how it is for except put fem at the end instead of masc! I'm really openminded about myself and the way I feel so I don't get very on labels and I can easily let go of them once a new label comes around that explains me better. I'm terrible at explaining things most of the time so labels are really helpful with that, you know?


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 25, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Yeah, and it doesn't help that here in the states, everything is so pointlessly gendered. Like why are there different gender earplugs, THEY ARE FUCKING EARPLUGS WE ALL HAVE EARS.
> 
> But yeah, if you're a guy, you get shit for not being a big strong man and showing emotions, and doing feminine things and get called gay and such. As a women, you get shit for not being the perfect housewife and liking sports and stuff. It's quite shitty :c


I've never liked those types of things either! So what if a girl likes "guy activities" and a guy likes "girl activities"? They're just ways to pass time and make life a little more interesting


ConorHyena said:


> there's also the 'your gay but your not feminine you can't be properly gay'
> 
> I've experienced that, it's rather ridiculous. But it happens _anywhere. _In any sort of enviroment and for any sort of reason. is just be how it is.


I agree, that's stupid. I told my friends I like guys (pan-sexual/-romantic) and one of them says (not as an insult or anything) that I don't act gay so she has to keep reminding herself. Why do gays have to act a certain way? I'm not even gay, though, so I can't relate very much but still, it bothers me.


VeeStars said:


> Yeah, and also the quite harmful stereotypes that all gay men are just pink princesses that spend time with exclusively women and have tea parties and shit. No, being gay does not influence your personality, it just means you like guys. There are traditionally masculine gay guys. I should probably stop ranting here, this isn't the vent thread x3
> 
> I wish @Alyx_0_0 well!


Thank you for the well wishes!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 29, 2020)

OK! SO! UPDATE FOR ANYONE WHO CARES! I don't think I care enough about my pronouns to use she/her irl unless I'm actually female but since that won't be happening anytime soon, I think I'll just be the dysphoric mess that I am and deal with it. Is it possible to be transfem without using she/her pronouns??


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## VeeStars (Nov 29, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> OK! SO! UPDATE FOR ANYONE WHO CARES! I don't think I care enough about my pronouns to use she/her irl unless I'm actually female but since that won't be happening anytime soon, I think I'll just be the dysphoric mess that I am and deal with it. Is it possible to be transfem without using she/her pronouns??


Yes, it is possible. Use whatever pronouns feel best/most comfortable. It's also okay to not be super dysphoric about pronouns, every trans person is different in what makes them dysphoric and how much it makes them dysphoric.

I totally support you. You go girl! <3


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

See, that! That right there! It made me feel weird. But not in a bad way. What does that even mean????


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> See, that! That right there! It made me feel weird. But not in a bad way. What does that even mean????


Can you elaborate on that? Did it make you feel weird in a good way because that is a good sign! UwU

I am here to help, from one gurl to another :3


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

Why does it feel weird in a good way? If I don't want to change my pronouns because that would be weird in a bad way (probably), why does being called girl feel weird in a good way? *Flips table with exaggerated flair* This makes no sense!


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Why does it feel weird in a good way? If I don't want to change my pronouns because that would be weird in a bad way (probably), why does being called girl feel weird in a good way? *Flips table with exaggerated flair* This makes no sense!


Muahahahaha! I just got you hooked on gender euphoria!!! >:3

Just kidding, hehe. That is known as gender euphoria, think of it as the counter to gender dysphoria. Your brain is excited because it's finally being recognized as the right gender.! You can also get gender euphoria from other things like dressing up. Sadly, don't get too attached to it, as the more you use the pronouns the more normal they become :/


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Muahahahaha! I just got you hooked on gender euphoria!!! >:3
> 
> Just kidding, hehe. That is known as gender euphoria, think of it as the counter to gender dysphoria. Your brain is excited because it's finally being recognized as the right gender.! You can also get gender euphoria from other things like dressing up. Sadly, don't get too attached to it, as the more you use the pronouns the more normal they become :/


I guess that makes sense but then why would it only be starting now? If my brain is being recognized as the right gender, why didn't I feel all the dysphoria sooner? And the normalness makes sense too since that would happen with anything XD


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I guess that makes sense but then why would it only be starting now? If my brain is being recognized as the right gender, why didn't I feel all the dysphoria sooner? And the normalness makes sense too since that would happen with anything XD


Hmm... I dunno much about that, I don't actually get that much dysphoria, all though with me, I had a few things I disliked about myself and came to realize it was dysphoria.

Maybe your brain disguised it as not dysphoria but you found out it is? If that's not the case, that's valid too. No two people have the same dysphoria. ^^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Hmm... I dunno much about that, I don't actually get that much dysphoria, all though with me, I had a few things I disliked about myself and came to realize it was dysphoria.
> 
> Maybe your brain disguised it as not dysphoria but you found out it is? If that's not the case, that's valid too. No two people have the same dysphoria. ^^


The only dysphoria I think I've got is body dysphoria and it's constant. Sometimes it gets way worse and during those times, I wish it was possible to change my body to female by sheer force of will. Grrrrr buff brain XD


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## mangomango (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I guess that makes sense but then why would it only be starting now? If my brain is being recognized as the right gender, why didn't I feel all the dysphoria sooner? And the normalness makes sense too since that would happen with anything XD


For me, I didn't really realize any dysphoria until I found out what things actually made me feel good about my gender and my presentation. After that, if I tried going back to previous clothes, hair, pronouns, etc. I could tell that those didn't make me feel good about myself - sometimes it just takes a bit of experimentation!


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> The only dysphoria I think I've got is body dysphoria and it's constant. Sometimes it gets way worse and during those times, I wish it was possible to change my body to female by sheer force of will. Grrrrr buff brain XD





mangomango said:


> For me, I didn't really realize any dysphoria until I found out what things actually made me feel good about my gender and my presentation. After that, if I tried going back to previous clothes, hair, pronouns, etc. I could tell that those didn't make me feel good about myself - sometimes it just takes a bit of experimentation!


Yeah, I didn't feel dysphoria at all, but I did have euphoria from female pronouns which made me recognize the dysphoria. Online it's very easy to experiment. Play around and see what really sticks before you come out offline if you want to. Have fun, and I say this again, you go girl!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

mangomango said:


> For me, I didn't really realize any dysphoria until I found out what things actually made me feel good about my gender and my presentation. After that, if I tried going back to previous clothes, hair, pronouns, etc. I could tell that those didn't make me feel good about myself - sometimes it just takes a bit of experimentation!


My clothing style is literally a bunch of big clothes that either hang off my body or are really too big XD The only thing that really changed is what I want, if that makes any sense. I started out as a feminine guy thinking "Oh yea this is good, this works" and then I started wishing I didn't have the um... male reproductive organ... Cuz I always feel self-conscious about it and that's why I wear big clothes. I started wishing I had female parts and I think that was the turning point but I didn't know it yet. So I asked my friends if they've ever felt like that and I have a transmasc friend that said yes so we started talking about it and I learned what body dysphoria was and I learned what transmasc/fem is too. Then I went on here and made this thread because I didn't want just one person's experiences, you know?


VeeStars said:


> Yeah, I didn't feel dysphoria at all, but I did have euphoria from female pronouns which made me recognize the dysphoria. Online it's very easy to experiment. Play around and see what really sticks before you come out offline if you want to. Have fun, and I say this again, you go girl!


Every time! It gets me every time and I don't understand why!


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## mangomango (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> My clothing style is literally a bunch of big clothes that either hang off my body or are really too big XD The only thing that really changed is what I want, if that makes any sense. I started out as a feminine guy thinking "Oh yea this is good, this works" and then I started wishing I didn't have the um... male reproductive organ... Cuz I always feel self-conscious about it and that's why I wear big clothes. I started wishing I had female parts and I think that was the turning point but I didn't know it yet. So I asked my friends if they've ever felt like that and I have a transmasc friend that said yes so we started talking about it and I learned what body dysphoria was and I learned what transmasc/fem is too. Then I went on here and made this thread because I didn't want just one person's experiences, you know?
> 
> Every time! It gets me every time and I don't understand why!


I mean... baggy clothes are the hallmark of being trans...


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> My clothing style is literally a bunch of big clothes that either hang off my body or are really too big XD The only thing that really changed is what I want, if that makes any sense. I started out as a feminine guy thinking "Oh yea this is good, this works" and then I started wishing I didn't have the um... male reproductive organ... Cuz I always feel self-conscious about it and that's why I wear big clothes. I started wishing I had female parts and I think that was the turning point but I didn't know it yet. So I asked my friends if they've ever felt like that and I have a transmasc friend that said yes so we started talking about it and I learned what body dysphoria was and I learned what transmasc/fem is too. Then I went on here and made this thread because I didn't want just one person's experiences, you know?


You are certainly not alone in that. Many people, even myself sometimes, wish they had the body of the opposite sex or had female organs. It's totally normal and valid, and it doesn't make you weird at all, it just makes you YOU!



Alyx_0_0 said:


> Every time! It gets me every time and I don't understand why!


Hehe, I'm so glad to help. Someone did the same thing to me, you know? It felt so good, gotta pass on the love, girl. UwU



mangomango said:


> I mean... baggy clothes are the hallmark of being trans...


No wonder...


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

mangomango said:


> I mean... baggy clothes are the hallmark of being trans...


Woahhhh... I've always worn baggy clothes... I literally wore XL shirts as pajamas when I was little... And I've always liked hoodies that are way too big for me (I'm wearing a big hoody now XD) but I always thought it was for the easy sleeve-slaps I could do... But now that I think about it, I've always felt more comfortable in things like that and one time I wore a big jacket during summer just cuz it was comfortable... Woah... So many things in my life were just questioned XD


VeeStars said:


> You are certainly not alone in that. Many people, even myself sometimes, wish they had the body of the opposite sex or had female organs. It's totally normal and valid, and it doesn't make you weird at all, it just makes you YOU!
> 
> 
> Hehe, I'm so glad to help. Someone did the same thing to me, you know? It felt so good, gotta pass on the love, girl. UwU
> ...


But I still don't want to use she/her. Why does it make me smile being called a girl when I don't want to use she/her? Wait... I'm typing this out as I think... What if I like being a girl but since my physical body is still a he and I've been a he all my life, it's just normal and comfortable...?


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## mangomango (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> But I still don't want to use she/her. Why does it make me smile being called a girl when I don't want to use she/her? Wait... I'm typing this out as I think... What if I like being a girl but since my physical body is still a he and I've been a he all my life, it's just normal and comfortable...?


Pronouns don't equal gender! You don't have to use a specific set of pronouns to be trans, or to present a certain way, or to be a certain gender!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

mangomango said:


> Pronouns don't equal gender! You don't have to use a specific set of pronouns to be trans, or to present a certain way, or to be a certain gender!


But I don't really have any other way of expressing it... I wish I could just become female with sheer willpower XD
(By the way, the three dots I use are thoughtful dots)


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## mangomango (Nov 30, 2020)

I don't know if you've seen this graphic before but it's pretty helpful!


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Woahhhh... I've always worn baggy clothes... I literally wore XL shirts as pajamas when I was little... And I've always liked hoodies that are way too big for me (I'm wearing a big hoody now XD) but I always thought it was for the easy sleeve-slaps I could do... But now that I think about it, I've always felt more comfortable in things like that and one time I wore a big jacket during summer just cuz it was comfortable... Woah... So many things in my life were just questioned XD
> 
> But I still don't want to use she/her. Why does it make me smile being called a girl when I don't want to use she/her? Wait... I'm typing this out as I think... What if I like being a girl but since my physical body is still a he and I've been a he all my life, it's just normal and comfortable...?


I wear kind of baggy clothing I guess? Maybe that's why I hate jeans with a passion...

Maybe so. Euphoria is just as valid as dysphoria, once again! Even if you might be fine with he/him, you might like she/her more, which is valid! You do you! Keep trying out the female pronouns if they make you feel good.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

mangomango said:


> I don't know if you've seen this graphic before but it's pretty helpful!


I've seen the list but I haven't seen the people with it. Thank you for this!


VeeStars said:


> I wear kind of baggy clothing I guess? Maybe that's why I hate jeans with a passion...
> 
> Maybe so. Euphoria is just as valid as dysphoria, once again! Even if you might be fine with he/him, you might like she/her more, which is valid! You do you! Keep trying out the female pronouns if they make you feel good.


Dude(ette?), I just hate jeans cuz it's hard to move in them XD
I think I'll try she/her on here but use he/him in the world since I can't be female.


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I can't be female.


Nooo, don't think that! If you feel really comfortable here after a while, try changing how you dress in subtle ways. Maybe tell your closest friends about it. Transitioning is a long river with lots of stepping stones. Play with your gender a bit, see what feels the most comfortable, then start working towards that. If you find out you were wrong and actually were cis, that's just another stepping stone you jumped over. You can be female, you can be a _woman. _^w^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Nooo, don't think that! If you feel really comfortable here after a while, try changing how you dress in subtle ways. Maybe tell your closest friends about it. Transitioning is a long river with lots of stepping stones. Play with your gender a bit, see what feels the most comfortable, then start working towards that. If you find out you were wrong and actually were cis, that's just another stepping stone you jumped over. You can be female, you can be a _woman. _^w^


No no I mean I can't do anything yet, including change the way I dress. I'm 16 so I still have to live with my LGBTQIA+-phobic mother who basically despises all things in the category because it's "disgusting". I'm stuck as this jumbled mess on the outside for a while and that's alright. I need to figure my mind out before I try other things.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Nov 30, 2020)

Oh come on, baggy clothes don't make you transgender.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

Rimna said:


> Oh come on, baggy clothes don't make you transgender.


No, they don't. It's just that a lot of transgender people wear baggy clothes, I think. Idk man, I'm new to this XD


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> No no I mean I can't do anything yet, including change the way I dress. I'm 16 so I still have to live with my LGBTQIA+-phobic mother who basically despises all things in the category because it's "disgusting". I'm stuck as this jumbled mess on the outside for a while and that's alright. I need to figure my mind out before I try other things.


Oof, I feel for you, I'm too nervous to wear anything feminine x.x

Well, things will hopefully sort themselves out, I wish you luck! Just experiment a little, see what makes you feel good. If you can't do it IRL because of your family, do it here or with close friends!



Rimna said:


> Oh come on, baggy clothes don't make you transgender.


I'm pretty sure that was not really that serious lol. Also, she was wearing them because of her body dysphoria. ^w^


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> No, they don't. It's just that a lot of transgender people wear baggy clothes, I think. Idk man, I'm new to this XD


If baggy clothes make you feel more comfortable in your body, do it. ^w^


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## mangomango (Nov 30, 2020)

Rimna said:


> Oh come on, baggy clothes don't make you transgender.


It's just that a common way that people deal with body dysphoria is baggy clothes - obviously not everyone who wears baggy clothes is trans, but it's more common.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Oof, I feel for you, I'm too nervous to wear anything feminine x.x
> 
> Well, things will hopefully sort themselves out, I wish you luck! Just experiment a little, see what makes you feel good. If you can't do it IRL because of your family, do it here or with close friends!
> 
> ...


All my sonas are feminine but they're femboys because I wanted to connect with them but that was when I was a femboy and that's different now but they're still gonna be femboys cuz I don't have the connections or the skills to change their ref sheets XD
Also, it took me a second to understand you were referring to me (right?) with the she/her stuff but then there was the same feeling from being called girl... Hmmmmmm....


VeeStars said:


> If baggy clothes make you feel more comfortable in your body, do it. ^w^


Lol that's all I can do clothing-wise to be comfortable


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> All my sonas are feminine but they're femboys because I wanted to connect with them but that was when I was a femboy and that's different now but they're still gonna be femboys cuz I don't have the connections or the skills to change their ref sheets XD
> Also, it took me a second to understand you were referring to me (right?) with the she/her stuff but then there was the same feeling from being called girl... Hmmmmmm....


Hehe. Glad to help. Your characters can be whatever you want them to be. :3



Alyx_0_0 said:


> Lol that's all I can do clothing-wise to be comfortable


Then rock it! You probably look fabulous!


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## ConorHyena (Nov 30, 2020)

mangomango said:


> It's just that a common way that people deal with body dysphoria is baggy clothes - obviously not everyone who wears baggy clothes is trans, but it's more common.



This - It can be more of an indicator that said person is uncomfortable in their own body. I have issues with how I look too (that are rooted in other issues I have) and I wear baggy clothing for that reason.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Hehe. Glad to help. Your characters can be whatever you want them to be. :3
> 
> 
> Then rock it! You probably look fabulous!


Thanks! But I really don't XD


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Thanks! But I really don't XD


No. You do. You don't have a choice in the matter >8)


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> No. You do. You don't have a choice in the matter >8)


Whatever you say XD


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Whatever you say XD


YOU WILL BE FABULOUS >:3


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## Alyx_0_0 (Nov 30, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> YOU WILL BE FABULOUS >:3


Perhaps


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## VeeStars (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Perhaps


Perhaps??!?!?


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Nov 30, 2020)

This seems weirdly appropriate


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> This seems weirdly appropriate
> 
> View attachment 95191


That is impressively accurate XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> That is impressively accurate XD


Anyways, what's up?

today's a masculine day for meh owo


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Anyways, what's up?
> 
> today's a masculine day for meh owo


That's a good question, isn't it? What *is* up? Is up just the opposite way that gravity pulls? But anyway, I don't have any idea if I feel more feminine today or not XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> That's a good question, isn't it? What *is* up? Is up just the opposite way that gravity pulls? But anyway, I don't have any idea if I feel more feminine today or not XD


That's alright, I'm genderfluid so I'm weird like that. Heh.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> That's alright, I'm genderfluid so I'm weird like that. Heh.


Ok so I can't remember if I said this already and I'm too lazy to check, but I have these little fantasy worlds that I make up in my head. It's kind of like being an author but not putting anything on paper. And lately, all of them have involved me either randomly becoming female or getting a genie and wishing to become female XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Ok so I can't remember if I said this already and I'm too lazy to check, but I have these little fantasy worlds that I make up in my head. It's kind of like being an author but not putting anything on paper. And lately, all of them have involved me either randomly becoming female or getting a genie and wishing to become female XD


I do that sometimes too. I've thought up a whole concept of Persona 5 but furry for example (I should probably get to writing xD). If you are subconsciously imagining becoming female I think your brain is telling you something, girl. x3


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> I do that sometimes too. I've thought up a whole concept of Persona 5 but furry for example (I should probably get to writing xD). If you are subconsciously imagining becoming female I think your brain is telling you something, girl. x3


Nah, don't worry, it's pretty conscious XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Nah, don't worry, it's pretty conscious XD


Ah lol.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

But yea, I can't tell if I'm feeling more feminine today or not. It's kinda like my brain is shrugging anytime I ask XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> But yea, I can't tell if I'm feeling more feminine today or not. It's kinda like my brain is shrugging anytime I ask XD


You think that I know that I'm feeling more masculine today, when in reality my brain shrugged but shrugged sort of masculine


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> You think that I know that I'm feeling more masculine today, when in reality my brain shrugged but shrugged sort of masculine


Well if that's the way it feels, then yea I'd say I'm feminine today XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Well if that's the way it feels, then yea I'd say I'm feminine today XD


But yeah, everyone's different. I'm genderfluid so I bounce around. Some people are more rigid. I learn more and more about my gender as I get comfortable with it, you will too. ^w^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> But yeah, everyone's different. I'm genderfluid so I bounce around. Some people are more rigid. I learn more and more about my gender as I get comfortable with it, you will too. ^w^


Sounds like a fun time, learning!


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## VeeStars (Dec 1, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Sounds like a fun time, learning!


eh...?


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 1, 2020)

I like learning about myself and I'm really introspective XD


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

I return with more questions XD
Ok so. If I'm the transfem mess that I am and I like guys, does that make me straight or does it make me gay or does it make something else entirely?


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I return with more questions XD
> Ok so. If I'm the transfem mess that I am and I like guys, does that make me straight or does it make me gay or does it make something else entirely?


It makes you pan. ;D


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Skittles said:


> It makes you pan. ;D


Really??


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

Maybe. Depends on how you go about the whole genderfluidity. I myself fall into this too. Since being non binary and liking both male and female. It is easier to say "I am Bi or Pan" , Pan makes more sense if you dun give a poop about the others gender or value personality more.

However. If you are more into males and only males. As an example, then you could specify gay or lesbian if the other way around.


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

And if you are transfem and only into guys. I guess one could argue you are straight. That's actually a good question.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Skittles said:


> Maybe. Depends on how you go about the whole genderfluidity. I myself fall into this too. Since being non binary and liking both male and female. It is easier to say "I am Bi or Pan" , Pan makes more sense if you dun give a poop about the others gender or value personality more.
> 
> However. If you are more into males and only males. As an example, then you could specify gay or lesbian if the other way around.


I don't care about the way people identify (she/her or he/him or they/them), I just like the way guys look XD


Skittles said:


> And if you are transfem and only into guys. I guess one could argue you are straight. That's actually a good question.


That's why I have come to my thread to ask it since I've gotten help and knowledge from here before! ^-^


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Indeed! I have been reading through~


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Now I just gotta wait for the knowledge to come to the thread and then I will become bigger brain.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 7, 2020)

Oh boy. The way I see it is keep it simple - if you ID as female, and only like guys, that makes you straight. If you like both - bi/poly/pan depending. If you don't truly ID as female, and don't strictly care about gender, there's always the catch all "queer."


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

I have asked around ^~^ One person has replied back with "Queer" as one of her friends ways of IDing it.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> Oh boy. The way I see it is keep it simple - if you ID as female, and only like guys, that makes you straight. If you like both - bi/poly/pan depending. If you don't truly ID as female, and don't strictly care about gender, there's always the catch all "queer."


Yea I guess that's true. My question is, do I go with the physical or the mental? Physical gender or mental gender? Sexual organs or emotional organs?


Skittles said:


> I have asked around ^~^ One person has replied back with "Queer" as one of her friends ways of IDing it.


I guess that would work. But I want to learn more for a while before I choose a label. I like labels, they help me explain things XD


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

I'd argue mental. Since that is how you feel and would be arguably the most important.


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I just like the way guys look XD


Guys be cyoot


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 7, 2020)

Skittles said:


> I'd argue mental. Since that is how you feel and would be arguably the most important.



So, I disagree with that, at least if trying to ID as straight. A cis/het dude likely would not date a guy even if that guy were extremely fem mentally. The physicality would get in the way. That's also what folks see first - how someone looks. If one doesn't see someone else as physical attractive, it's unlikely a real relationship will continue. Yes, you can overcome things, but it's uphill.

Now, if IDing as Pan or Poly, it's different, but that's in the definition. I wouldn't describe someone who doesn't care about physical traits so long as their partner is mentally the correct gender as "straight."


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Ziggy Schlacht said:


> So, I disagree with that, at least if trying to ID as straight. A cis/het dude likely would not date a guy even if that guy were extremely fem mentally. The physicality would get in the way. That's also what folks see first - how someone looks. If one doesn't see someone else as physical attractive, it's unlikely a real relationship will continue. Yes, you can overcome things, but it's uphill.
> 
> Now, if IDing as Pan or Poly, it's different, but that's in the definition. I wouldn't describe someone who doesn't care about physical traits so long as their partner is mentally the correct gender as "straight."


Sexuality is complicated. If you wanna use a label like "queer" or no label at all, it's completely fine! :3


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Sexuality is complicated. If you wanna use a label like "queer" or no label at all, it's completely fine! :3


I'd suggested that farther up. It's a good catch all term when things get messy. I mean, as it is I think we have needless gradation in terms, which are trying to describe something that's probably best in 3D as 1D.... 4D? Like the kingsley scale, but in 3d space.

Color = How conforming you are to a specific gender 
Scale 1 = How attracted you are the same gender
Scale 2 = How attracted you are to the opposite gender
Scale 3 = How interested in physical interaction you are

There's probably a useless-for-daily-use way to mathematically present orientation here.


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## Mambi (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> OK! SO! UPDATE FOR ANYONE WHO CARES! I don't think I care enough about my pronouns to use she/her irl unless I'm actually female but since that won't be happening anytime soon, I think I'll just be the dysphoric mess that I am and deal with it. Is it possible to be transfem without using she/her pronouns??



Of course! You be called what you want...that's kind of the point. <grin>


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## Xitheon (Dec 7, 2020)

I haven't read the entire thread so I may have missed something but I'll give you my support. I suppose I'll just share my experiences and you might get something from it.

I am female by birth but I've always been androgynous. When I reached puberty I went through an anorexic phase because I didn't want to grow breasts or have a period (low body weight can stop girls/women from having a period/menstruating.) It was pretty serious dysphoria and almost destroyed my health. As an adult I changed my name via deed poll and my official name is a male name and I'm officially "Mr." 

I was lucky enough to be able to visit a female to male trans group when I lived in London and that was very useful (although sadly I moved away from the area and can't find an equivalent near my new town.) I recommend talking to other people with similar feelings and experiences; if you can find a trans support group I recommend it.

I don't know what it's like to be M to F, of course. I think it's probably harder, to be honest. Men can get a lot of abuse from stupid people for being feminine. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I feel like you should be careful and find a suitable and safe way to express yourself as female. Above all, find people who understand.

I feel like I should say more but that's all I have. :/


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Xitheon said:


> I haven't read the entire thread so I may have missed something but I'll give you my support. I suppose I'll just share my experiences and you might get something from it.
> 
> I am female by birth but I've always been androgynous. When I reached puberty I went through an anorexic phase because I didn't want to grow breasts or have a period (low body weight can stop girls/women from having a period/menstruating.) It was pretty serious dysphoria and almost destroyed my health. As an adult I changed my name via deed poll and my official name is a male name and I'm officially "Mr."
> 
> ...


Jeez, luckily you managed to pull through it! 

Yeah, men or transwomen can get a lot of abuse for being feminine which is really shitty. If you want to look into it more, look into toxic masculinity. ^^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Xitheon said:


> I haven't read the entire thread so I may have missed something but I'll give you my support. I suppose I'll just share my experiences and you might get something from it.
> 
> I am female by birth but I've always been androgynous. When I reached puberty I went through an anorexic phase because I didn't want to grow breasts or have a period (low body weight can stop girls/women from having a period/menstruating.) It was pretty serious dysphoria and almost destroyed my health. As an adult I changed my name via deed poll and my official name is a male name and I'm officially "Mr."
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your experiences with us and with me. Are you ok now? There's a club at my school made for people in the LGBTQIA+ community and allies as well. Sadly, most of the meetings happen after school and my mother doesn't like the LGBTQIA+ community and doesn't want me in the club. I'm in it anyway but it's hard. Social norms describe males as dominant, strong, tough, no-crying-allowed _men_. Like manliness is an award instead of the act of finishing puberty. *eyeroll*


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experiences with us and with me. Are you ok now? There's a club at my school made for people in the LGBTQIA+ community and allies as well. Sadly, most of the meetings happen after school and my mother doesn't like the LGBTQIA+ community and doesn't want me in the club. I'm in it anyway but it's hard. Social norms describe males as dominant, strong, tough, no-crying-allowed _men_. Like manliness is an award instead of the act of finishing puberty. *eyeroll*


Yeah, not fun at all. Like you can be very muscular and strong and still be a decent person and express your emotions. Expressing weakness and emotions actually makes you a braver person, not less of a man.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Yeah, not fun at all. Like you can be very muscular and strong and still be a decent person and express your emotions. Expressing weakness and emotions actually makes you a braver person, not less of a man.


Exactly. But unfortunately, it makes you braver because people think you're weak for expressing your emotions. But I don't know if we should get into that here XD


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## Raever (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm pretty queer as far as gender goes, in that I enjoy being feminine (and identify as female) but have a somewhat masculine sense of behavior and body language, and have even been mistaken for male in chat rooms if I don't make my gender apparent. On top of that, I also find myself on a fluid spectrum when it comes to sexual identity (how I see myself in roles and such), and I do occasionally experience dysphoria - mainly with my breasts, - but I don't consider any of that a need to identify as Trans or even Non-binary/Genderfluid. If anything I'm possibly Genderflux, but honestly...I don't give a shit what people call me. :/

Tldr; Do what you like and forget the labels.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Raever said:


> I'm pretty queer as far as gender goes, in that I enjoy being feminine (and identify as female) but have a somewhat masculine sense of behavior and body language, and have even been mistaken for male in chat rooms if I don't make my gender apparent. On top of that, I also find myself on a fluid spectrum when it comes to sexual identity (how I see myself in roles and such), and I do occasionally experience dysphoria - mainly with my breasts, - but I don't consider any of that a need to identify as Trans or even Non-binary/Genderfluid. If anything I'm possibly Genderflux, but honestly...I don't give a shit what people call me. :/
> 
> Tldr; Do what you like and forget the labels.


My dysphoria is constant and I basically don't want to be male anymore. But my pronouns aren't really important enough to me for me to get dysphoric with them. I like labels, they help me explain myself when I fail to do so XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> My dysphoria is constant and I basically don't want to be male anymore. But my pronouns aren't really important enough to me for me to get dysphoric with them. I like labels, they help me explain myself when I fail to do so XD


Labels are not needed nor are they meant to restrict you. Don't need them? That's valid. Want a flag to fly and a way to explain yourself? Use a label, also valid. Do whatever is most comfortable.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Labels are not needed nor are they meant to restrict you. Don't need them? That's valid. Want a flag to fly and a way to explain yourself? Use a label, also valid. Do whatever is most comfortable.


I mean, there's a certain degree of just picking "good enough." If we drilled down into everything on me we might find bi isn't a perfect descriptor. However, I find it the easiest to explain (e.g. I don't have to) and close enough. Reality, of course, is unless I'm in your pants I'm not really sure it matters if the descriptor is perfect. And if I'm in your pants I'm not sure you care.


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## Ziggy Schlacht (Dec 7, 2020)

@Alyx_0_0
I just realized a different method to handle this. Since there's a handful of descriptions, and associated flags which may work - you can always pick the one you like best and use that.


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## Skittles (Dec 7, 2020)

I identify as fabulous. This works for me X)


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Bluefiremark II said:


> REDACTED BY STAFF


And that works too! A lot of things work. I don't like bringing religion into gender things because I'm not Christian. But you do you! And I know tomboys and femboys exist (I was a femboy before I started caring about my gender) but this isn't a case of just liking some feminine things, this is full-on wishing to be (mostly, wouldn't want to deal with periods XD) female. Thank you for your input though! Very much appreciated. ^-^


Skittles said:


> I identify as fabulous. This works for me X)


That's cuz you are fabulous XD


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## Punji (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm of the opinion that labels and flags and all that crap don't matter as much as the person. Personally I sort of bounce around between some terms but ultimately it doesn't matter what I might call it at the end of the day.

Don't exactly fit any one thing? Doesn't matter, you don't need them to be happy or comfortable with yourself!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Punji said:


> I'm of the opinion that labels and flags and all that crap don't matter as much as the person. Personally I sort of bounce around between some terms but ultimately it doesn't matter what I might call it at the end of the day.
> 
> Don't exactly fit any one thing? Doesn't matter, you don't need them to be happy or comfortable with yourself!


I... I've said multiple times that I like them... XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

More power to people who want to be feminine guys or masculine girls, they are completely allowed to do that.

What a lot of people misunderstand, and I want to REALLY EMPHASISE THIS is that *gender expression  ≠ gender.*

The difference between just being a feminine cis guy and a trans woman is that the trans woman actually feels that she is a woman, whereas the cis guy wants to act feminine but doesn't feel like a woman. Fun fact: you can have a masculine trans woman and a feminine trans guy, because gender expression ≠ gender.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Hmm... I dunno much about that, I don't actually get that much dysphoria, all though with me, I had a few things I disliked about myself and came to realize it was dysphoria.
> 
> Maybe your brain disguised it as not dysphoria but you found out it is? If that's not the case, that's valid too. No two people have the same dysphoria. ^^


I was very similar.

I when puberty started for me, I began to hate looking in the mirror. I thought it was just because I had puberty pimples but I just couldn't stand to look at myself. I had no idea it was gender dysphoria at the time, but it persisted into adulthood.

It wasn't until being on HRT for a year that I looked into the mirror and realized that even though I wasn't happy about the same little things, like occasional stress pimples, I could still look in the mirror without wanting to avert my eyes.

It was in this moment that I realized how much gender dysphoria had been affecting me and for how long it had been bothering me.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> I was very similar.
> 
> I when puberty started for me, I began to hate looking in the mirror. I thought it was just because I had puberty pimples but I just couldn't stand to look at myself. I had no idea it was gender dysphoria at the time, but it persisted into adulthood.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but what is HRT?


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Sorry, but what is HRT?


Hormone replacement therapy


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Hormone replacement therapy


What Vee said. (You still using she/her? I am lost)


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Yes I am! Sorry if I was confusing! I'm using she/her to figure things out and find out if I like it enough to change my pronouns irl. Please don't say anything about pronouns not defining a person cuz the issue is that I don't feel that connected to my pronouns XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> What Vee said. (You still using she/her? I am lost)


Sure, I guess. I just use whatever now tbh



Alyx_0_0 said:


> Yes I am! Sorry if I was confusing! I'm using she/her to figure things out and find out if I like it enough to change my pronouns irl. Please don't say anything about pronouns not defining a person cuz the issue is that I don't feel that connected to my pronouns XD


She was referring to me, but ok ^^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Sure, I guess. I just use whatever now tbh
> 
> 
> She was referring to me, but ok ^^


Oh oops sorry! I'm kinda dumb sometimes XD


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## Xitheon (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Thank you for sharing your experiences with us and with me. Are you ok now? There's a club at my school made for people in the LGBTQIA+ community and allies as well. Sadly, most of the meetings happen after school and my mother doesn't like the LGBTQIA+ community and doesn't want me in the club. I'm in it anyway but it's hard. Social norms describe males as dominant, strong, tough, no-crying-allowed _men_. Like manliness is an award instead of the act of finishing puberty. *eyeroll*



I'm okay now, mostly. I'm 32 and I am reaching the age where my gender doesn't matter to me. I'm celibate (NOT INCEL - I am just functionally asexual) so my body's physical sex doesn't matter in practical terms. I still cut my hair short and wear men's clothing but I also use my female name most of the time.

Interesting note I forgot to mention: my father is very gender fluid and sometimes identifies as a woman. When he was young he wore very girly clothes and felt like he was meant to be a girl. My dad is very hard to explain... He's 64 now and came to terms with his gender years ago but he is very sympathetic about trans issues.

(My dad is like a mentor to me and I often wonder if I'm "mirroring" him by being trans, although that isn't the only factor.)

It sounds as if your parents don't understand and are not very supportive. That sucks, I'm sorry. But you're not alone.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Xitheon said:


> I'm okay now, mostly. I'm 32 and I am reaching the age where my gender doesn't matter to me. I'm celibate (NOT INCEL - I am just functionally asexual) so my body's physical sex doesn't matter in practical terms. I still cut my hair short and wear men's clothing but I also use my female name most of the time.
> 
> Interesting note I forgot to mention: my father is very gender fluid and sometimes identifies as a woman. When he was young he wore very girly clothes and felt like he was meant to be a girl. My dad is very hard to explain... He's 64 now and came to terms with his gender years ago but he is very sympathetic about trans issues.
> 
> ...


My father is fine with it. He doesn't really care about any of it. My mother is the issue. I'll probably tell her once I move out. But thank you for the support! It means a lot!


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## Bluefiremark II (Dec 7, 2020)

Np! Glad to show some opinion. Even if its wrong or whatnot, really, i don't control you. Nobody does, disregarding religion and such, just find out what you're happy with, be who you want to really. Whatever works. I'm just a straight male so i have no personal experience on anything, but everyone can do everyone (you do you) so long as we're nice to eachother ^-^ whatever your beliefs or looks are, we can aaaall be nice to each other.


Alyx_0_0 said:


> And that works too! A lot of things work. I don't like bringing religion into gender things because I'm not Christian. But you do you! And I know tomboys and femboys exist (I was a femboy before I started caring about my gender) but this isn't a case of just liking some feminine things, this is full-on wishing to be (mostly, wouldn't want to deal with periods XD) female. Thank you for your input though! Very much appreciated. ^-^
> 
> That's cuz you are fabulous XD



Sadly my previous post was redacted though, apparently it was malicious intent? Lol.. i think we all know it wasn't ill intent. Whatever. Enjoy your day!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Bluefiremark II said:


> Np! Glad to show some opinion. Even if its wrong or whatnot, really, i don't control you. Nobody does, disregarding religion and such, just find out what you're happy with, be who you want to really. Whatever works. I'm just a straight male so i have no personal experience on anything, but everyone can do everyone (you do you) so long as we're nice to eachother ^-^ whatever your beliefs or looks are, we can aaaall be nice to each other.
> 
> 
> Sadly my previous post was redacted though, apparently it was malicious intent? Lol.. i think we all know it wasn't ill intent. Whatever. Enjoy your day!


There are no wrong opinions, just stupidly expressed opinions. Yours wasn't stupidly expressed or wrong, by the way! I just wanted to say that cuz it makes me seem wise XD
Yea I don't know why your post could've been seen as malicious intent... Voicing opinion the way you did isn't malicious at all... Sorry that happened! You enjoy your day too!


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## Bluefiremark II (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> There are no wrong opinions, just stupidly expressed opinions. Yours wasn't stupidly expressed or wrong, by the way! I just wanted to say that cuz it makes me seem wise XD
> Yea I don't know why your post could've been seen as malicious intent... Voicing opinion the way you did isn't malicious at all... Sorry that happened! You enjoy your day too!


Yeah, and they declined the appeal for the offense, its only one offense so, not that big a deal, but yeah, i agree. No wrong opinions, thats what an opinion is, just badly expressed ones :3


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## Raever (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> My dysphoria is constant and I basically don't want to be male anymore. But my pronouns aren't really important enough to me for me to get dysphoric with them. I like labels, they help me explain myself when I fail to do so XD



You could just be Trans and not care about the pronouns others call you, or if you do care you could be they/them to just group everything together.  :/


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

Raever said:


> You could just be Trans and not care about the pronouns others call you, or if you do care you could be they/them to just group everything together.  :/


True, true. I don't really intend to change my pronouns irl until I'm at least more physically feminine, though. That'll be a few years, unfortunately.


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Raever said:


> You could just be Trans and not care about the pronouns others call you, or if you do care you could be they/them to just group everything together.  :/


She (they?) said she/her pronouns gave them gender euphoria (and I could tell lol) so don't be so hasty to throw them off the table! ^^

Edit: I meant on here, RL is a completely different story. Do some research, find some trans youtubers! ^^


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> She (they?) said she/her pronouns gave them gender euphoria (and I could tell lol) so don't be so hasty to throw them off the table! ^^


Idk it's weird. I like them on places like this where nobody can see my physical body. On the internet, I can be whoever I want to be and as long as I stay in certain places like this, questions aren't asked. But when people can see my physical body, she/her kinda feels uncomfortable for some reason. I know it doesn't make any sense but I don't think I could explain it any better XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Idk it's weird. I like them on places like this where nobody can see my physical body. On the internet, I can be whoever I want to be and as long as I stay in certain places like this, questions aren't asked. But when people can see my physical body, she/her kinda feels uncomfortable for some reason. I know it doesn't make any sense but I don't think I could explain it any better XD


That's the glory of the internet, I can tell people I've never met I'm a gurl and they believe OwO


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> That's the glory of the internet, I can tell people I've never met I'm a gurl and they believe OwO


Exactly! Though, if you take that out of context, it's a bit weird XD But yea that's exactly it. Nobody knows the difference and I can just be me on the internet because nobody knows otherwise. It's great and I think that's why I get the euphoria on here. It's cuz I can express myself as a girl without needing to be conscious the not-girlness in the real world. I explain things poorly, sorry if that didn't make sense XD


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Exactly! Though, if you take that out of context, it's a bit weird XD But yea that's exactly it. Nobody knows the difference and I can just be me on the internet because nobody knows otherwise. It's great and I think that's why I get the euphoria on here. It's cuz I can express myself as a girl without needing to be conscious the not-girlness in the real world. I explain things poorly, sorry if that didn't make sense XD


Don't worry, I get'cha.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 7, 2020)

VeeStars said:


> Don't worry, I get'cha.


Thank you


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 7, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> This is kinda just a place to put what I'm feeling into words.
> Ok. So. I've been slowly feeling more and more feminine (I'm a male by birth) and at first I was like, "Ok ok so maybe I'm a femboy?" And that still feels right and all but now I'm experiencing body dysphoria, annoyance or discomfort with my body, mainly my genitals for me, and it's not really a pronouns thing *yet* but I might be on the way there? I asked my friends at school to help me learn more about labels that might match what I'm feeling and so far, I've only got transfem. My parents aren't very supportive of LGBTQIA+ in general so I'm absolutely not telling them anything yet because I'm still a minor and I don't want to deal with their condescension any more than I have to. My friends are all super supportive and one of them is similar to me except he's transmasc.
> So yea just wanted somewhere to put my feels into words!
> 
> Edit: I forgot to explain the "again" in the title, sorry! So I already questioned by sexuality and figured that out for now. I'm pansexual/panromantic and demisexual. Now for the gender! Fuuuuunnnnnn


@Alyx_0_0 Eh..... you should tell your parents, IMO. As not doing so is a bit unfair to them (it seems); as.... they may be able to "help you out" through this uncertain time of yours - that you're currently going through. 

And, as you *are* their child, they may be actually quite supportive, you might find...... as people's attitudes sometimes change, (around gay-related issues) whenever it becomes "personal", and it isn't really regarded as, "someone else's problem" anymore. 

And, (seeing that you are underage, after all) - any sort of "help" that you may need in this area - (like: counseling, medical help, etc.)..... they'd be the ones to have to approve of it; and, most importantly - *pay* for any services that you may need as well.

And so, a "secret" like this, usually isn't really a good idea to keep to oneself - *unless* of course - you feel that your personal safety might be in danger, by divulging it to them. (If that's the case) - then, just wait until you're 18, and have moved out of there.... before you "spill the beans" about it.

But, if that's not that case - then, a good way to approach it is to simply ask them: "if I was having these sorts of feelings - (as my parents) what would you do"? 

And then base your approach with them about it, based on their answers.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 7, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> @Alyx_0_0 Eh..... you should tell your parents, IMO. As not doing so is a bit unfair to them (it seems); as.... they may be able to "help you out" through this uncertain time of yours - that you're currently going through.
> 
> And, as you *are* their child, they may be actually quite supportive, you might find...... as people's attitudes sometimes change, (around gay-related issues) whenever it becomes "personal", and it isn't really regarded as, "someone else's problem" anymore.
> 
> ...




Maybe... but the trick is making sure it is safe to do so.

When I came out, I was told I was under demonic influence and told that if I dressed like a girl, even in the privacy in my own room, I would be forced to go to a homeless shelter.

To this day, my father still has hard time looking directly at me and feels a need to avert his eyes.

Not to scare anyone, but coming out to family is a hard choice and for some it will be safe to do so and for others it will not be.

If anyone is unsure, they should feel out the situation more or wait until they are not trapped in a living situation they can't get out of.


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## Deleted member 111470 (Dec 7, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> Not to scare anyone, but coming out to family is a hard choice and for some it will be safe to do so and for others it will not be.



This needs to be said more. I've been reading through this thread, as well as other similar ones and I find it staggering that a bunch of grown-ass men are just encouraging someone who is underage to "you go girl" and tell everyone about it like it's nothing.

Like, don't be so certain and assume that everyone will accept them with open arms. What if they have family members who will react violently? What if they have peers in school who will target them? What then?  

Don't dismiss a young person's wellbeing just because you are in a safe space.

@Alyx_0_0  don't be in a rush to define yourself. It's okay if it takes time. I once jokingly said that in another thread that if one doesn't know their sexuality by the time they're 18, the sun will explode them. That's not the case. Above all, make sure that you're safe. Like don't just show up to school in full drag tomorrow because some guy on the internet said it's okay to feel like a girl when you're a boy.


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## VeeStars (Dec 7, 2020)

@Alyx_0_0 stay safe out there! Find out a bit more about yourself and maybe find some friends you know you could trust and would accept you and maybe talk about it with them, first, maybe. Like with what Rimna said, there will be bullies and assholes and you need to build a very sturdy support net first ^w^


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 8, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> Maybe... but the trick is making sure it is safe to do so.
> 
> When I came out, I was told I was under demonic influence and told that if I dressed like a girl, even in the privacy in my own room, I would be forced to go to a homeless shelter.
> 
> ...


@Emyrelda Seoni Whatever........ I'm just trying to help the kid, not argue with you. But, if I was in his/her shoes, my advice (above) is what'd I'd do and be thinking about.

As I said:


Connor J. Coyote said:


> And so, a "secret" like this, usually isn't really a good idea to keep to oneself - *unless* of course - you feel that your personal safety might be in danger, by divulging it to them. (If that's the case) - then, just wait until you're 18, and have moved out of there.... before you "spill the beans" about it.



-------------------------------
To the OP: I'm hoping my advice is worth a look..... (and hopefully it's helpful to you).


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## ConorHyena (Dec 8, 2020)

Rimna said:


> @Alyx_0_0  don't be in a rush to define yourself. It's okay if it takes time. I once jokingly said that in another thread that if one doesn't know their sexuality by the time they're 18, the sun will explode them. That's not the case. Above all, make sure that you're safe. Like don't just show up to school in full drag tomorrow because some guy on the internet said it's okay to feel like a girl when you're a boy.



this is an important thing. Stuff centrered around one's sexual identity is prone to change while one grows up till around 24-ish. I've been all the way from gay to straight to gay again in this time, so sometimes it's prudent to wait for a moment until your sure where your head is going. 
and IRL - it pays off to be careful. Sometimes the situation, even in the west, even nowadays, can not be conductive to coming out. Apply common-sense and be circumspect.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 8, 2020)

ConorHyena said:


> Stuff centrered around one's sexual identity is prone to change while one grows up till around 24-ish. I've been all the way from gay to straight to gay again in this time, so sometimes it's prudent to wait for a moment until your sure where your head is going.


Frankly - theoretical gobbledygook doesn't help the kid (OP) in his/her situation right now. So, my advice above, (which is what *seems* to be what the OP is asking for).... is something not only he/she should think about - but, *anyone else* in that situation should probably do also.

Counseling is probably the first step (maybe at school or maybe in private); and - his/her parents should probably *know* about these things, in order to properly help him/her navigate these issues..... unless, he/she knows that their safety may be in jeopardy.
---------------
Again, to the OP: I hope you take into consideration, my advice...... (as it's very important you be careful, but also.... get some support as well, which you'll need).


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## ConorHyena (Dec 8, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> Frankly - theoretical gobbledygook doesn't help the kid (OP) in his/her situation right now. So, my advice above, (which is what *seems* to be what the OP is asking for).... is something not only he/she should think about - but, *anyone else* in that situation should probably do also.



Good thing I wasn't posting theoretical gobbledygook but practical experience


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 8, 2020)

Connor J. Coyote said:


> @Emyrelda Seoni Whatever........ I'm just trying to help the kid, not argue with you. But, if I was in his/her shoes, my advice (above) is what'd I'd do and be thinking about.
> 
> As I said:
> 
> ...



I was not trying to argue, either. In an idealized world, your advice applies to everyone; I would certainly hope that if my own daughter had these feelings, she would feel safe enough to talk to me about them. A supportive parent can certainly be a great help!

That said, if someone feels genuinely afraid to come out, not just nervous about it being awkward, they should have a social support circle and safety plan in place before hand.

Hope that clarifies things. I don't disagree with you overall. I just have some caveats.

Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 8, 2020)

Ok ok, no need for fighting. I won't reply to all of these because that just makes my message stupidly long. First of all, Connor, My signature literally has it in big letters, "Please use she/her pronouns!" No harm was done but please use the in this future because it does make me happy when it happens. Also, it's not fear of physical abuse at all but just verbal abuse and "disappointment" and probably also telling me what I think about myself. I don't fear things like that, I just don't want to waste time listening to it since I already know their opinions. Technically, I could go to a therapist to talk about these things and my family would never know this is what we're talking about because of doctor-patient confidentiality. But doing more than that, you're right, they would need to know and pay for it. Which is why I won't do anything until I've opened their minds or until I've moved away. And from your advice above, Connor, just because I am my mother's child, does not mean she would accept this. I've said before on this thread, she has told me to my face that she thinks "gays" are disgusting. The fact that guys kiss guys and girls kiss girls disgusts her. She's recently told me that all the people she's met that are like that have been drug addicts and things like that but she also works in a jail so that's not surprising. We've come to an agreement about that I think so she's on her way to possibly opening up to it but just because I'm her offspring does not mean she's obligated to accept whatever I do. She's not a super supportive mother. My father thinks the way you do, Connor, so I have nothing against you. But there are certain parts of your advice that would only work in an ideal, perfect world.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 8, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> My signature literally has it in big letters, "Please use she/her pronouns!" No harm was done but please use the in this future because it does make me happy when it happens.



To be fair, signatures don't appear in mobile mode.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 8, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> To be fair, signatures don't appear in mobile mode.


Oh oops! I didn't know that. I've never used mobile for this, sorry XD


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 8, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Oh oops! I didn't know that. I've never used mobile for this, sorry XD


Thought that may be the case. I almost exclusively go on FAF from my phone. ^w^

Those little <3 <3 on your profile do appear, however. You could put she/her there if you want to make sure everyone sees it.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 8, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> Thought that may be the case. I almost exclusively go on FAF from my phone. ^w^
> 
> Those little <3 <3 on your profile do appear, however. You could put she/her there if you want to make sure everyone sees it.
> 
> View attachment 95904


Ok! I'll do that then! Thank you for this knowledge.


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## Connor J. Coyote (Dec 8, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Ok ok, no need for fighting. I won't reply to all of these because that just makes my message stupidly long. First of all, Connor, My signature literally has it in big letters, "Please use she/her pronouns!" No harm was done but please use the in this future because it does make me happy when it happens. Also, it's not fear of physical abuse at all but just verbal abuse and "disappointment" and probably also telling me what I think about myself. I don't fear things like that, I just don't want to waste time listening to it since I already know their opinions. Technically, I could go to a therapist to talk about these things and my family would never know this is what we're talking about because of doctor-patient confidentiality. But doing more than that, you're right, they would need to know and pay for it. Which is why I won't do anything until I've opened their minds or until I've moved away. And from your advice above, Connor, just because I am my mother's child, does not mean she would accept this. I've said before on this thread, she has told me to my face that she thinks "gays" are disgusting. The fact that guys kiss guys and girls kiss girls disgusts her. She's recently told me that all the people she's met that are like that have been drug addicts and things like that but she also works in a jail so that's not surprising. We've come to an agreement about that I think so she's on her way to possibly opening up to it but just because I'm her offspring does not mean she's obligated to accept whatever I do. She's not a super supportive mother. My father thinks the way you do, Connor, so I have nothing against you. But there are certain parts of your advice that would only work in an ideal, perfect world.


Well, if I'm just wasting my time on this thread, then..... I won't bother..... as it's not really my problem anyway.

*But* - if I was the OP - my advice (above) is what I'd be doing and thinking right now... as it is somewhat important, (especially if someone is *underage*) that he/she have their parents notified (or at least be made aware of) these issues, as the parents are probably the best ones right now - to help this person out, and get through these things.

That's all..... (I'm outta this thread) and that's my advice to anyone in a similar situation, so..... take it or leave it, I guess.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 28, 2020)

I return with a strange new experience that I both hate and don't hate at the same time. Without a better way to describe it and to avoid beating around the bush, has anyone ever experienced phantom boobs? Or other phantom limbs like that? I've never had them but for some weird reason I keep getting a feeling that I can't explain as anything except phantom boobs. Anytime it happens I just get way more dysphoric because it's like my brain and nerves are reminding me of things I most likely won't have for years. It's really rude of my nerves.


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## kittyDecaying (Dec 28, 2020)

I have. Most often it's after I have a dream where I'm fully a girl and everything feels right, but occasionally it'll happen randomly too. Or when putting your hands there, sometimes it's just a weird feeling like something's missing. 
Yes, it's super rude of the nerves!! Why can't they just be patient!


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 28, 2020)

I get it whenever I think about wanting to be female instead of male. Basically all the time XD


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## kittyDecaying (Dec 28, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I get it whenever I think about wanting to be female instead of male. Basically all the time XD


GOD I feel you. And feel free to ever talk to me about stuff! I only actually came to realize I was trans earlier this year, after (too) many years of pushing it down.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 28, 2020)

kittyDecaying said:


> GOD I feel you. And feel free to ever talk to me about stuff! I only actually came to realize I was trans earlier this year, after (too) many years of pushing it down.


I only started recently too. Not cuz I was pushing it down, I just wasn't questioning that yet. I was questioning my sexuality first and that was simple enough but now I'm questioning {kinda} gender. I'm completely certain I'm trans cuz I don't think you get phantom limbs from the opposite gender without being trans XD


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 28, 2020)

kittyDecaying said:


> GOD I feel you. And feel free to ever talk to me about stuff! I only actually came to realize I was trans earlier this year, after (too) many years of pushing it down.



I still remember when Pomemon Crystal game out for the Gameboy Color and being so excited to play a girl in Pokemon for the first time. People asked why I was playing a girl and the only answer I had at the time was "because I can!"

It wasn't until years later that I realized it was suppressed dysphoria.


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## Skittles (Dec 29, 2020)

Not phantom boobs but other anatomy. Yes. Also I know one other!

@Rystren


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## Rystren (Dec 29, 2020)

Skittles said:


> Not phantom boobs but other anatomy. Yes. Also I know one other!
> 
> @Rystren


What about me?


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## Skittles (Dec 29, 2020)

Rystren said:


> What about me?


You got the phantom bewbz


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## Rystren (Dec 29, 2020)

Skittles said:


> You got the phantom bewbz


well, yes. lol


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 29, 2020)

Rystren said:


> well, yes. lol



I did not know this... Are He/Him still your prefered pronouns or did I miss a big announcement?


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## Rystren (Dec 29, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> I did not know this... Are He/Him still your prefered pronouns or did I miss a big announcement?


I never really made an announcement here. Only really on telegram. But the correct ones are really he/she/they.


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## Foxy Emy (Dec 29, 2020)

Rystren said:


> I never really made an announcement here. Only really on telegram. But the correct ones are really he/she/they.



So yes... all the pronouns... and snootplants.


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## Rystren (Dec 30, 2020)

Emyrelda Seoni said:


> So yes... all the pronouns... and snootplants.


Exactly. Lol


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 30, 2020)

It's such an interesting thing... How is it even possible to have phantom limbs you've never actually had before?


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## Rystren (Dec 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> It's such an interesting thing... How is it even possible to have phantom limbs you've never actually had before?


That is a good question that I dont have an answer for


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 30, 2020)

I figure if you wanted to get spiritual about it, it's probably because anyone experiencing what I am had female bodies in their past life. Same for anyone feeling the other phantom anatomy. But I want the science... *_Intense thinking ensues_*


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## VeeStars (Dec 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> I figure if you wanted to get spiritual about it, it's probably because anyone experiencing what I am had female bodies in their past life. Same for anyone feeling the other phantom anatomy. But I want the science... *_Intense thinking ensues_*


Aren't trans people's brains like physically similar to that of the gender they transition to or smth? If so that would make a lot of sense


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 30, 2020)

otterpaws said:


> Aren't trans people's brains like physically similar to that of the gender they transition to or smth? If so that would make a lot of sense


Ohhh yeah that's true! I didn't think about it like that. Our brains are wired a bit differently than our bodies. You are a genius!


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## VeeStars (Dec 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> You are a genius!


nuh! >:T


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 30, 2020)

otterpaws said:


> nuh! >:T


Such a genius


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## VeeStars (Dec 30, 2020)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Such a genius


NUH! >:T


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 30, 2020)

otterpaws said:


> NUH! >:T


YUH! >:}


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## Deleted member 134556 (Dec 30, 2020)

otterpaws said:


> NUH! >:T





Alyx_0_0 said:


> YUH! >:}


No fighting


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## VeeStars (Dec 30, 2020)

Nexus Cabler said:


> No fighting
> View attachment 97442


ahH!H!! ;w;


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## Alyx_0_0 (Dec 30, 2020)

NOO!! NOT THE SQUIRT GUN!! I'M MELTING!!!


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## Bababooey (Jan 3, 2021)

I feel like I'll never stop going back to questioning my gender. I've been questioning it for 6 years now. When I think I've found the answer, I feel guilt and have this nagging thought "you're a girl" over and over. It's then I have no choice but to take up the 100% cisgender label once more, and it blows. I feel like I climb a steep hill and keep sliding back down. I don't wanna change my name, my appearance, or my pronouns, but I feel like there's a piece of me that's just a guy inside. A small part. I keep thinking since I don't really wanna change anything, then why should I bother finding the answer? Though, even when I push these thoughts away, the confusion persists. I eventually question myself once again, and then the guilt and the "you're a girl. STOP" thoughts come back, so I go back to just being a girl and then the confusion and then the cycle continues over and over and over.

It's exhausting.
I think the reason I feel a connection to male fursonas is because they let that little piece of me out. I don't feel like a guy in general, but I feel like a little spirit of one is inside me. I AM a girl, but I'm also something else, but something just small enough to keep away gender dysphoria, but just problematic enough to keep nagging me, like a fly in my room occasionally buzzing by my ear.

Edit: I'm sorry for dumping all this stuff about me in a thread about you. Maybe this is relatable in some way? Eh. Probably not. Pay no mind to me folks. Lol


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## Alyx_0_0 (Jan 3, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I feel like I'll never stop going back to questioning my gender. I've been questioning it for 6 years now. When I think I've found the answer, I feel guilt and have this nagging thought "you're a girl" over and over. It's then I have no choice but to take up the 100% cisgender label once more, and it blows. I feel like I climb a steep hill and keep sliding back down. I don't wanna change my name, my appearance, or my pronouns, but I feel like there's a piece of me that's just a guy inside. A small part. I keep thinking since I don't really wanna change anything, then why should I bother finding the answer? Though, even when I push these thoughts away, the confusion persists. I eventually question myself once again, and then the guilt and the "you're a girl. STOP" thoughts come back, so I go back to just being a girl and then the confusion and then the cycle continues over and over and over.
> 
> It's exhausting.
> I think the reason I feel a connection to male fursonas is because they let that little piece of me out. I don't feel like a guy in general, but I feel like a little spirit of one is inside me. I AM a girl, but I'm also something else, but something just small enough to keep away gender dysphoria, but just problematic enough to keep nagging me, like a fly in my room occasionally buzzing by my ear.
> ...


That's fine! My thoughts about it are actually the opposite, super loud and depressing. But when I'm distracted, I just exist and there's no dysphoria whatsoever! It's like a toothache that only hurts when you chew on that tooth. It's fine and you even forget about it when you're doing something else but then you go to eat and accidentally chew on it and your mouth is just full of pain.... That made no sense XD


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## Bababooey (Jan 3, 2021)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> That's fine! My thoughts about it are actually the opposite, super loud and depressing. But when I'm distracted, I just exist and there's no dysphoria whatsoever! It's like a toothache that only hurts when you chew on that tooth. It's fine and you even forget about it when you're doing something else but then you go to eat and accidentally chew on it and your mouth is just full of pain.... That made no sense XD


No, I definitely get ya. I guess you can ignore something but it'll still be there. o3o


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## Alyx_0_0 (Jan 3, 2021)

Chomby said:


> No, I definitely get ya. I guess you can ignore something but it'll still be there. o3o


Exactly. I have a short attention span so I get distracted easily XD


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 3, 2021)

Chomby said:


> I feel like I'll never stop going back to questioning my gender. I've been questioning it for 6 years now. When I think I've found the answer, I feel guilt and have this nagging thought "you're a girl" over and over. It's then I have no choice but to take up the 100% cisgender label once more, and it blows. I feel like I climb a steep hill and keep sliding back down. I don't wanna change my name, my appearance, or my pronouns, but I feel like there's a piece of me that's just a guy inside. A small part. I keep thinking since I don't really wanna change anything, then why should I bother finding the answer? Though, even when I push these thoughts away, the confusion persists. I eventually question myself once again, and then the guilt and the "you're a girl. STOP" thoughts come back, so I go back to just being a girl and then the confusion and then the cycle continues over and over and over.
> 
> It's exhausting.
> I think the reason I feel a connection to male fursonas is because they let that little piece of me out. I don't feel like a guy in general, but I feel like a little spirit of one is inside me. I AM a girl, but I'm also something else, but something just small enough to keep away gender dysphoria, but just problematic enough to keep nagging me, like a fly in my room occasionally buzzing by my ear.
> ...


It doesn’t exactly mirror what you’re describing, but this came across my feed and it might resonate with you in some way (thread):

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345453502051602433
I’m genderqueer, but I’m personally fine with being, essentially, nominally female for expediency. Gender is deeply personal, and can be messy.


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## Kinare (Jan 3, 2021)

That comic speaks to me on one hecc of a level, I'll tell you whut. The last year or two I've really been questioning things. As far as filling out forms is concerned, I choose to say female because it's easier. If people ask online (it's obvious IRL so they don't need to ask), I don't hesitate to say I'm female (unless for security reasons, like I think they wanna be a creeper). Yet... I hate everything about femininity, including my body. I cringe to think of myself as female, but I also cringe at the idea of asking anyone to call me something different. There was a brief period in my childhood where I did girly things, but most of my life I've enjoyed more manly things. Do I hate my body enough to consider a change? ...probably not. Way too much effort, I'd be disowned and have no support system IRL, and I don't really imagine myself with a dick being any happier. I think, like in the comic, I could be satisfied with just losing weight and some other minor physical things. As far as the label goes, I try not to let it bother me or make a big deal out of it because to me it's not a huge deal, I just want to be accepted as I am in the end, regardless of label, so the label shouldn't matter. I express some of my feelings about gender in the fact that my sona's species has no apparent gender, otherwise meh.


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 3, 2021)

Kinare said:


> As far as filling out forms is concerned, I choose to say female because it's easier. If people ask online (it's obvious IRL so they don't need to ask), I don't hesitate to say I'm female (unless for security reasons, like I think they wanna be a creeper). Yet... I hate everything about femininity, including my body. I cringe to think of myself as female, but I also cringe at the idea of asking anyone to call me something different.


I had a period where I would half-jokingly, half-seriously describe my gender as “tomboy” and/or “nominally female.” For me, it’s like... I identify as genderqueer _for me_. If people see my name, or my pronouns, or my physical appearance, and assume “female,” that’s no skin off my back.

I don’t think it’s something that’s going to work for everyone. I don’t need what I do and feel to work for everyone. Just know that you’re valid as you are, and you don’t have to embrace femininity or an identity as “female” to be entitled to fall back on it for convenience. All labels are approximations in the end, anyway.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Jan 3, 2021)

Kinare said:


> That comic speaks to me on one hecc of a level, I'll tell you whut. The last year or two I've really been questioning things. As far as filling out forms is concerned, I choose to say female because it's easier. If people ask online (it's obvious IRL so they don't need to ask), I don't hesitate to say I'm female (unless for security reasons, like I think they wanna be a creeper). Yet... I hate everything about femininity, including my body. I cringe to think of myself as female, but I also cringe at the idea of asking anyone to call me something different. There was a brief period in my childhood where I did girly things, but most of my life I've enjoyed more manly things. Do I hate my body enough to consider a change? ...probably not. Way too much effort, I'd be disowned and have no support system IRL, and I don't really imagine myself with a dick being any happier. I think, like in the comic, I could be satisfied with just losing weight and some other minor physical things. As far as the label goes, I try not to let it bother me or make a big deal out of it because to me it's not a huge deal, I just want to be accepted as I am in the end, regardless of label, so the label shouldn't matter. I express some of my feelings about gender in the fact that my sona's species has no apparent gender, otherwise meh.


The first half is a great description of how I am. I pick the truthful option when something asks for my gender and gives "male or female" and i say "male" because I'm scientifically male so whatever. I'm starting to change {obviously} how I answer people online in places like this about my gender and I say I use she/her. But I also hate being male even though I have "male" hobbies. Maybe not specifically male {never been a fan of football or anything remotely like that} but I like hiking and things like that. Actually... Now that I really think about it... I don't have any hobbies that are typically "masculine"... Anyway. I don't like being male but I don't even feel comfortable with the idea of someone irl calling me a different name or using she/her when referring to me. I also think I'd try to change my body into a more feminine one but like you said, too much work XD


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## Kinare (Jan 3, 2021)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Maybe not specifically male {never been a fan of football or anything remotely like that} but I like hiking and things like that. Actually... Now that I really think about it... I don't have any hobbies that are typically "masculine"...


It's such a shame, right? Anything outdoorsy is looked at as being more of a man thing... but that's so far from the truth. Rural 'Murica would like to say hi! I know just as many girls out here that do outdoorsy things as guys.


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## Alyx_0_0 (Jan 3, 2021)

Kinare said:


> It's such a shame, right? Anything outdoorsy is looked at as being more of a man thing... but that's so far from the truth. Rural 'Murica would like to say hi! I know just as many girls out here that do outdoorsy things as guys.


Exactly! It's so dumb. Why does existing in a certain place and doing a certain thing count as masculine or feminine activities? I've seen girls hiking trails and guys hiking trails, girls, mountain biking and guys mountain biking. Social norms are way out of date.


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## Kinare (Jan 4, 2021)

Alyx_0_0 said:


> Exactly! It's so dumb. Why does existing in a certain place and doing a certain thing count as masculine or feminine activities? I've seen girls hiking trails and guys hiking trails, girls, mountain biking and guys mountain biking. Social norms are way out of date.


Social norms make me so mad sometimes - not even talking gender, but just in general... Ree. But yeah, the day we do away with "this is feminine, this is masculine" will be a great day. I know part of my confusion comes from these definitions, and it's just so irritating that society is what is defining me, not me.


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## Toasty9399 (Jan 4, 2021)

no thoughts, empty head


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## Bababooey (Jan 4, 2021)

So... Question. Can someone be a female demiguy?
Does that make sense?

Edit: Another question. Do bigender people always experience their genders in equal amounts?


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## quoting_mungo (Jan 4, 2021)

Chomby said:


> So... Question. Can someone be a female demiguy?
> Does that make sense?


As in... transmasc? Or as in... self-identified as female-but-demimale? I guess the answer in both cases is probably “gender is messy and deeply personal, so yes,” but the latter I’m having a bit more trouble wrapping my head around as an isolated concept.



Chomby said:


> Edit: Another question. Do bigender people always experience their genders in equal amounts?


Nope. I don’t in any way mean to conflate gender and sexuality by this, but it might be easier to grasp by looking at bisexuality; is a bisexual person always attracted to their own and other genders in equal amounts? Not speaking from experience on the gender portion, there, but from observation.


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## Bababooey (Jan 4, 2021)

quoting_mungo said:


> Nope. I don’t in any way mean to conflate gender and sexuality by this, but it might be easier to grasp by looking at bisexuality; is a bisexual person always attracted to their own and other genders in equal amounts? Not speaking from experience on the gender portion, there, but from observation.



That makes sense. I may be bigender.


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