# NEED ADVICE! Making a head, thinking outside the box. (Pictures)



## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 27, 2013)

*RESOLVED:  Making a head, thinking outside the box. (Pictures)*

Well I am thinking outside the box - using it to construct a base for for a head, but I have a dilemma.
All this is, is a Styrofoam head, with cardboard and duct tape all over it.

I need help figuring out how I am going to mold this into a head. I am considering several options: 

I've used paper mache to make my profile pic's wolf mask, but I've recently read that you do not want to use that material for a suit head. I can understand that you'd get sweaty, but I seal my paper mache with Varnish. (Though I've been reading up on PlastiDip, and may use that.) 

OR making a Bondo shell, and filling that with expanding foam.

OR trying to find a shop that does Vacuum forming. 

I DO NOT have the budget to make a mold, and pour it in resin. 

If I choose Vacuum Forming, I will be adding a layer of clay to this to give it finer detail, since I will be covering this with Stretch Velvet, I cannot afford to have any lumps or large imperfections that furniture foam would offer.

Also does anyone have any tips on what kind of glue I should use for attaching the stretch velvet to whatever rigid medium I wind up using? 

I understand that I will have to make this in parts, so it can be easily removed from the positive if I choose the mache or Bondo option. 


(Concept sketch, and future updates will be posted here: https://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/chaoscreation/ )


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## mirepoix (Apr 28, 2013)

Wonderflex, or Worbla, maybe?  You could form it directly over your duct tape armature, then reinforce it from the back with extra pieces of material.  Youtube has a ton of tutorials on using those materials if you search for "wonderflex tutorial" or "worbla tutorial."  Cosplayers use it all the time.  I got to hold a mask made of the stuff at a con, and it is very sturdy when you layer it.  You could get the finer details (the ridges down the snout, extra brow bones up the forehead, etc) with some Apoxie Sculpt, or other epoxy clays.

I use Bondo all the time, and it's honestly more trouble than it's worth most of the time.  In thin coats, it is extremely brittle and a pain in the ass to sand.  Also!  Oh man!  I had a HORRIBLE thing happen to me with Great Stuff recently:  I left a rough carved sculpt in the garage overnight, and it shrunk like a raisin!  I had to throw the whole thing out.  Dunno how other people use it without problems, but I am now distrustful of the stuff.  >_>

To keep your stretch velvet surface looking nice and smooth, you could start with a buffer layer of polar fleece.  I use it to smooth out upholstery foam for my dragon tails before I add my spandex.  I bet hot glue would work fine, but do some testing first.  It will seep through some thinner materials and make ugly little glue dots.


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 28, 2013)

I would love to try out WonderFlex/Worbla, however does it respond to a normal Professional Hair Dryer? Or do I need a heat gun? For how much I'd need, I'd already be spending 30 bucks, though It may be worth my time saved...

May I ask why there are suggestions saying not to use Paper Mache?


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## Dokid (Apr 28, 2013)

Nononononono. I'm sorry to say but this screams "bad idea" at me and so many red flags are going up.

You don't want to use paper mache because if you ever hope to wear it multiple times then it'll just slowly disintegrate due to the amount of sweat you'll be making. Go out on a very humid day and it'll break down faster. Also the varnish may cause more bad fumes. You're literally putting your health at risk doing a lot of this.

Please go and read these threads while your at it as well.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...ber-one-mistakes-of-first-time-fursuit-makers

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...S-AND-TUTORIALS-A-LIST-FOR-NEW-FURSUIT-MAKERS

Also if you leave the duct tape on it'll cause bad fumes that aren't good for you to breathe in. The duct tape will also allow for zero breathing and you'll suffocate especially with that styrofoam.

The styrofoam will also beak down so easily and it really shouldn't be used unless it's a prop.


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 28, 2013)

Dokid said:


> Nononononono. I'm sorry to say but this screams "bad idea" at me and so many red flags are going up.
> 
> You don't want to use paper mache because if you ever hope to wear it multiple times then it'll just slowly disintegrate due to the amount of sweat you'll be making. Go out on a very humid day and it'll break down faster. Also the varnish may cause more bad fumes. You're literally putting your health at risk doing a lot of this.



Ah that's what I figured. I have a mask already made with this technique, and I let it thurorghly dry for a week before wearing it, and there were no fumes. 



> Please go and read these threads while your at it as well.
> 
> http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...ber-one-mistakes-of-first-time-fursuit-makers
> 
> http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...S-AND-TUTORIALS-A-LIST-FOR-NEW-FURSUIT-MAKERS



That second topic is one that I read thoroughly, and saw the one rule of leaving out paper mache. I just wanted to know why. However thank you for linking the other topic. 



> Also if you leave the duct tape on it'll cause bad fumes that aren't good for you to breathe in. The duct tape will also allow for zero breathing and you'll suffocate especially with that styrofoam.
> 
> The styrofoam will also beak down so easily and it really shouldn't be used unless it's a prop.



I certainly did not intend on using duct tape as part of the mask, I just can't afford to buy a ton of clay, so I made a base structure to work off of. I would never use Duct Tape in a costume, EVER. That's just a horrible thing to do. I made that form using cardboard, assembling it with Duct Tape to ensure it was symmetrical and anatomically correct.

I was planning on using expanding foam within a shell-like structure to add rigidity. 



Ultimately I've decided to use Worbla for my head. It's easily sculpted upon a positive form in detail, will not add too much bulk, and is cheaper than making a Vacuum Form or Resin Form and will work perfectly for what I need.


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 28, 2013)

Also, What do you think of the scale of the muzzle? It's been bothering me how large it turned out from the side view.

But, then I draw on top of it, and it doesn't look so bad. I was thinking making the angle of the muzzle a bit deeper, but I don't want to reduce it too much, and it starts looking like a pointy greyhound.


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## mirepoix (Apr 28, 2013)

Chaos_Costumes said:


> I would love to try out WonderFlex/Worbla, however does it respond to a normal Professional Hair Dryer? Or do I need a heat gun? For how much I'd need, I'd already be spending 30 bucks, though It may be worth my time saved...
> 
> May I ask why there are suggestions saying not to use Paper Mache?



In this video the cosplayer uses a hair dryer, but I hear you can also use a warm oven.  Just be careful not to burn out your hair dryer by using for too long.

Papier mache seems to be a very polarizing topic in the community.  Some people say it works just fine while others swear it's the building material from hell.  I follow the "trash in trash out" philosophy.  I don't trust a bunch of cheap kiddy materials to get the professional results I want.  If you just coat your paper with mod podge or something, there is still a risk of your object getting crushed.  Air dry clay can dry out, crack or shrink over time.  If I felt the need to use papier mache, I would reinforce it with fiberglass and epoxy resin similar to how people make Halo armor with papercraft.  If you want to talk fiberglass, I can talk fiberglass; I've been experimenting with it lately.

Edit:  Check this out  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ffyuA8dcc


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## Dokid (Apr 28, 2013)

hmm...okay then. Well Anyways the muzzle looks like it's good and proportionate. Just remember though that fur will at 1 or 2 inches to that. It will also remove a lot of subtle differences so you may want to exaggerate a bit.


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 28, 2013)

mirepoix said:


> Papier mache seems to be a very polarizing topic in the community.  Some people say it works just fine while others swear it's the building material from hell.  I follow the "trash in trash out" philosophy.  I don't trust a bunch of cheap kiddy materials to get the professional results I want.



I agree with that philosophy entirely. Even though this is my first head, this is certainly not my first costume, by a long shot. 



> If you want to talk fiberglass, I can talk fiberglass; I've been experimenting with it lately.



The problem I have with potential using Fiberglass, is that I heard that it can be too heavy. It seems a tad unwieldy for the amount facial detail I want in this mask. I suppose I could make a simplified shell, then add to it, but how would I go about doing that? 

Also, would it be as cheap as a 34 dollar sheet of Worbla?


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 28, 2013)

Dokid said:


> hmm...okay then. Well Anyways the muzzle looks like it's good and proportionate. Just remember though that fur will at 1 or 2 inches to that. It will also remove a lot of subtle differences so you may want to exaggerate a bit.



I am using Stretch Velvet, but I understand what you mean. Thank you for completely dissuading me from other options - I soon realized there would be a lot of problems if I chose to do what I was thinking of.

Has anyone seen a GOOD velvet job other than this one? How would I go about gluing down fine details without the hot glue seeping through? Would a spray adhesive work? Should I add a layer behind the velvet? If so, what? 

Sorry for the bombardment of questions. I just want to make sure I do this right the first time.


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## mirepoix (Apr 28, 2013)

Chaos_Costumes said:


> Also, would it be as cheap as a 34 dollar sheet of Worbla?



Maaaaybe as cheap, but Worbla is faster and safer.  I was rambling a little bit >_>



Chaos_Costumes said:


> Has anyone seen a GOOD velvet job other than this one? How would I go about gluing down fine details without the hot glue seeping through? Would a spray adhesive work? Should I add a layer behind the velvet? If so, what?


I was covering a mask in spandex, and I used a layer of polar fleece behind it to smooth everything out.  http://imgur.com/a/Wadyd I used the Henson stitch to seam my fleece and hot glue to attach it to my mask.  I ended up scrapping the entire thing, as 1. it was ugly (the mask design, not the technique) and 2. I had to stretch the spandex so tight over the cheeks to make them smooth, engaging the hinge with my chin was extremely difficult.  I was trying to avoid putting extra material around the cheeks because I was going for a cutesey toony look and minimize seams.  I bet that stretch velvet would hide seams and extra material a lot better than ivory spandex, but it's still an experience I wanted to mention.

Why stretch velvet anyway?  Also, are you hoping to make a hinged jaw?


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 28, 2013)

mirepoix said:


> Maaaaybe as cheap, but Worbla is faster and safer.  I was rambling a little bit >_>
> 
> 
> Why stretch velvet anyway?  Also, are you hoping to make a hinged jaw?



I am using it to build the suit, and I want consistency.
Here is the concept drawing I did.

I already have a duct-tape dummy, and an under-suit to glue the foam onto to built up the muscle structure. I don't want the suit to look lovable and squishy, I want it to be sleek, muscular and scary. I didn't want to use spandex, since the seams are always an issue. Plus the velvet was a lot easier to attain and cheaper (especially with a 50% off coupon) than nice faux fur. 

I do plan on making a hinged jaw. I was thinking of making a stretchy skin flap in between the jaws with a different material so it would appear to be skin. I will also be breaking up areas with some 2 inch pile fur, or using the yarn-tail technique to add some longer strands. 

Also, Mirepoix, how did you make the final skin of the head you showed me? Did you make a pattern, sew it up, and slip the spandex over the fleece, then glued it down in hidden areas?


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## mirepoix (Apr 28, 2013)

Oh dang, that will look cool!  Reminds me of Kos made by Clockwork Creatures.  I wish I could find better pictures of it, 'cuz it's awesome.  Another pic and another.  Oh oh, and here's a video of it being covered!  They used spray adhesive to laminate spandex and fleece together to make a heavier bodied fabric.  It also looks like Kos' jaw hinge was disguised with longer piled fur, but I bet some reptile-like cheek skin, painted all gross-like would look really creepy.

I made a duct tape pattern for the fleece, but I just draped the spandex on there, fitting it and trimming it as I went.  I made sure the piece I was draping was pretty big, and I used hot glue to tack it in place.  Ya know what, give me a bit and I'll take a picture of the inside of it to help describe what I did.  Check out that Clockwork Creatures video, though; I think it is a bit simpler than what I did.

edit:  dude, you NEED glowing LED eyes!  That would look super rad.


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 29, 2013)

mirepoix said:


> Oh dang, that will look cool!  Reminds me of Kos made by Clockwork Creatures.  I wish I could find better pictures of it, 'cuz it's awesome.  Another pic and another.  Oh oh, and here's a video of it being covered!  They used spray adhesive to laminate spandex and fleece together to make a heavier bodied fabric.  It also looks like Kos' jaw hinge was disguised with longer piled fur, but I bet some reptile-like cheek skin, painted all gross-like would look really creepy.
> 
> I made a duct tape pattern for the fleece, but I just draped the spandex on there, fitting it and trimming it as I went.  I made sure the piece I was draping was pretty big, and I used hot glue to tack it in place.  Ya know what, give me a bit and I'll take a picture of the inside of it to help describe what I did.  Check out that Clockwork Creatures video, though; I think it is a bit simpler than what I did.
> 
> edit:  dude, you NEED glowing LED eyes!  That would look super rad.




Actually I've ordered a TON of LED's so I can start making glowing eyes, and also for a gauntlet commission I am working on. However, I might not do it immediately, since I only have 20 days to complete this project. I absolutely ADORE Qarrezel's work! I am using their work as my inspiration photos. Their work is so beautiful, it brings a tear to my eye. TT^TT  I know that mine won't be nearly that amazing, but my attention to anatomy and symmetry should prove to be at least half-way decent. 

I am really looking forward to forming the Worbla head. I've made quite a few changes to my duct tape form - it was looking too dragon-y. (Using Duct Tape and Cardboard is so ghetto, but it's working, it is super solid. I don't have to worry about accidentally mis-shaping it.)

That video is super helpful, thank you! I never perused their UStream before!


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## Chaos_Costumes (Apr 29, 2013)

mirepoix said:


> Ya know what, give me a bit and I'll take a picture of the inside of it to help describe what I did.



If you can get a good photo, that'd be great!


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## Kiu (May 1, 2013)

Interesting idea! I too want to make a head based on some type of hard material like clay or paper mache. The thing is, many people use paper mache or clay for a different kind of mask (but basically the same without the fur), an I am confused as to why they approve of it so much and why fursuit people don't. :/
(I ended up choosing foam in the end) But I really do want a base made of a hard material because sculpting holds more detail and shape than foam does. 
I never thought about worbla for a head!! I only see it for armor, very interesting!


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## Ozriel (May 1, 2013)

Kiu said:


> Interesting idea! I too want to make a head based on some type of hard material like clay or paper mache. The thing is, many people use paper mache or clay for a different kind of mask (but basically the same without the fur), an I am confused as to why they approve of it so much and why fursuit people don't. :/
> (I ended up choosing foam in the end) But I really do want a base made of a hard material because sculpting holds more detail and shape than foam does.
> I never thought about worbla for a head!! I only see it for armor, very interesting!



Reason why people approve of it so much is because it is a cheaper and quicker way to do it. Good costumes take time and effort without half-assing the quality of materials.


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## Chaos_Costumes (May 1, 2013)

Kiu said:


> I never thought about worbla for a head!! I only see it for armor, very interesting!



I will be posting updates of how the head turns out around Friday/Saturday, here: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/135102-Demon-Dog-WIP-Chronicles

Wish me luck!

Hopefully this will be a quick and easy solution, vs. making your own resin/paper mache head. Not a bad price either!


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