# Whether or Not you Are Commisisonable - Thread



## Arshes Nei (Oct 4, 2009)

I am posting this here because I don't want to overflow the Critiques forum with stickies.

There seems to be a frequent question from members here whether or not they should open up for commissions, or charge.

There really isn't a straight answer, but I can tell you, about 80% of you that are about to post this question you need to really consider the following.

1. The ability to produce your craft. If you got major issues with anatomy, coloring, and so forth, you need to work on that first. In fact, the first thing you need to do is know when not to think of FA as a cash cow over caring about your art first.

2. Watches matter to an extent. If you don't have a lot of watches, and you've been on here for a while, you need to learn to earn some more. This goes back to 1.

3. What you will sell that will be different than what everyone else has to sell. Right now it's saturated with a lot of people wanting to sell artwork. If you are just another illustrator that can't stand out, I'm sorry but don't bother. Come back when you know how to stand out and market yourself.

4. If you're of age. Minors really shouldn't be doing commissions. No one wants to enter a contract with a minor, you automatically lose if a dispute occurs and the other person is a minor.

5. You can meet deadlines and have a good turnaround.

Other things to think about, is the price. The idea is "ok I'll sell them REALLY cheap"...which I guess is fine in a saturated market, but really what is the point. A dollar for work that the time spent could be done getting a real job (with better wages)? I know it sounds harsh but it's very true. What is the point of spending money on supplies, and other goods and sell a product undervalued to your time and effort? Let's also think about this, if you're withdrawing money form your paypal account to make a physical check...well once the fees make their way in, you really wasted your time doing utterly cheap commissions.

The reality is, if you're already about to ask the question if you should take commissions and/or at what price...you're not ready for them. You need to consider the following points in this post (I can add on to it, if people have more feedback). 

So consider it before posting, you're probably the 80% that need to follow #1 first.


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## Donryu (Oct 5, 2009)

something that may help

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/924810/


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## Dior (Oct 5, 2009)

Donryu said:


> something that may help
> 
> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/924810/



This


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## ila (Oct 5, 2009)

Arshes Nei said:


> Other things to think about, is the price. The idea is "ok I'll sell them REALLY cheap"...which I guess is fine in a saturated market, but really what is the point. A dollar for work that the time spent could be done getting a real job (with better wages)? I know it sounds harsh but it's very true. What is the point of spending money on supplies, and other goods and sell a product undervalued to your time and effort? Let's also think about this, if you're withdrawing money form your paypal account to make a physical check...well once the fees make their way in, you really wasted your time doing utterly cheap commissions.



for me drawing is *very* fun but I know I can not realistically make a living of my drawings at this point and even getting nothing I would not feel the hours spent on the drawing were waisted how ever if I could get even a few dollars for it then that would be considered the icing on the cake (Now I'm never going to get a commission ^-^ people will be all like you like drawing do it for FREE)


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## Atrak (Oct 5, 2009)

> (Now I'm never going to get a commission ^-^ people will be all like you like drawing do it for FREE)


 
Nothing wrong with that  . I enjoy drawing and painting as well. I only started classes about 6 weeks ago, and it was the first time I'd ever really painted or drawn. My confidence is getting boosted, and I enjoy doing it. You should always enjoy what you do, or else get another job.

(Wow, this is pretty short compared to my normal posts ^^)


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## ila (Oct 5, 2009)

atrakaj said:


> Nothing wrong with that  . I enjoy drawing and painting as well. I only started classes about 6 weeks ago, and it was the first time I'd ever really painted or drawn. My confidence is getting boosted, and I enjoy doing it. You should always enjoy what you do, or else get another job.
> 
> (Wow, this is pretty short compared to my normal posts ^^)



I've been taking classes for nearly three years drawing for five and selling my art for nearly one both to a publisher and in Icelandic cafÃ©'s but I've never had to do furry stuff so I'm not sure I feel comfortable selling it not knowing whether I can keep the same standards I demand of my other works 

also I just got a deal with a cafÃ© here that wants to show and sell my art ^-^

my oil paintings go for more then 200$ and my drawings for 100$ so i'm ecstatic If I can just sell two or more the coming month I can get a  desktop pc that (I already have most of the parts) handles Photoshop and a light board so I can ink


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## Dsurion (Oct 5, 2009)

I still wonder if im able to do commissions or not. (*point towards the paw to the left*)

Anyway i do a lot of request because i love to draw for other people and i still need to improve a lot but that also has something to do with it, if someone can get something for free, why would he pay.


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## cronlv16 (Mar 14, 2010)

I dont like to charge people. What I do is usually for free and appreciated just the same.

Op will recognize me when I was starting out in art. :3 Never forgot how Nei went and colored my art for nothing. 

Back to topic, there have been times when people shoved like 50 dollars at me for stuff but just because they knew I worked hard on it.


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## Smelge (Mar 14, 2010)

2) Draw porn.

God knows how many brilliantly drawn pieces, beautifully coloured works of art on this site have very few favourites because there's no porn or nudity in it.

Sad fact is that if you want to get maybe a watcher per piece you post, then keep doing clean stuff. Put a cock in there or some kind of projectile bodily fluid, and you're swimming in watchers, regardless of artistic talent.

Sometimes I wonder if it's worth doing a shitty porn piece just to see if there's a sudden increase in watchers, favourites and comments.


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## AnimeWolfChick (Mar 22, 2010)

i hear what you are saying ^^ i personally keep my prices between $2 and $10. this is because of a few reasons.
a. i dont want it to be a job that pays me. its a hobby i like to do that people can afford a pic if they want one.
b. because. lets just say im not "da vinci" when it comes to drawing.
c. cheap prices = more people = more drawing = enjoys to draw = Happiness ^^


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## Aden (Mar 22, 2010)

I've been toying with the idea of offering to color linework and give pieces backgrounds on a commission basis. Think this is feasible?

Edit: Coloring examples: [1]|[2]


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## Taralack (Mar 22, 2010)

Aden said:


> I've been toying with the idea of offering to color linework and give pieces backgrounds on a commission basis. Think this is feasible?
> 
> Edit: Coloring examples: [1]|[2]



Very nice.


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## Aden (Mar 22, 2010)

Toraneko said:


> Very nice.



But is it _commissionable_ nice?


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## Fay V (Mar 22, 2010)

I'd say so


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## Taralack (Mar 22, 2010)

I reckon yeah.


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## Bandia (May 10, 2010)

I wish artists (of any skill level) wouldn't undervalue themselves. For instance. I wouldn't take any less than $16/hour. YES, an hour. I mean, the guy cleaning the McDonalds bathroom makes 7-8 bucks, right?

All these 5, 10, 75 dollar commissions you see around. When you do the math these guys are getting paid 2 bucks an hour. I don't care what you think of your own art, thats a slap in the face!

Fellow artists. Make sure you are making at least Minimum Wage! (after material/shipping costs)


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## OxfordTweed (May 10, 2010)

Bandia said:


> I wish artists (of any skill level) wouldn't undervalue themselves. For instance. I wouldn't take any less than $16/hour. YES, an hour. I mean, the guy cleaning the McDonalds bathroom makes 7-8 bucks, right?
> 
> All these 5, 10, 75 dollar commissions you see around. When you do the math these guys are getting paid 2 bucks an hour. I don't care what you think of your own art, thats a slap in the face!
> 
> Fellow artists. Make sure you are making at least Minimum Wage! (after material/shipping costs)



The problem with that is that artists are pretty much a dime a dozen in this fandom. Unless you're offering something truly unique, there are a thousand people out there doing EXACTLY what you're doing.

It's a buyer's market, and to make any money, you almost have to undersell yourself. It's a buyer's market, and if your prices are too high, the buyers will go somewhere else.

Now, most people have other jobs, and they sell art on the side. Very few of us have no other income.


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## CombatRaccoon (Jun 1, 2010)

Bandia said:


> I wish artists (of any skill level) wouldn't undervalue themselves. For instance. I wouldn't take any less than $16/hour. YES, an hour. I mean, the guy cleaning the McDonalds bathroom makes 7-8 bucks, right?
> 
> All these 5, 10, 75 dollar commissions you see around. When you do the math these guys are getting paid 2 bucks an hour. I don't care what you think of your own art, thats a slap in the face!
> 
> Fellow artists. Make sure you are making at least Minimum Wage! (after material/shipping costs)



lol, this is totally me. 
I guess I'm at the point where I'd be afraid to charge a lot more, not because I don't think I'm good, but because I'm very well-known on the site. 
Also, I dunno, it's kind of nice to give people some cheap art thats actually good. 

...I guessss :/


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## Arshes Nei (Jun 12, 2010)

Bandia said:


> I wish artists (of any skill level) wouldn't undervalue themselves. For instance. I wouldn't take any less than $16/hour. YES, an hour. I mean, the guy cleaning the McDonalds bathroom makes 7-8 bucks, right?



Yes and No. Should I pay high dollars for medical or legal advice for someone without a degree? After all, they're studying hard! Yes, while being an artist doesn't take a degree your skill is your worth. Just because you work hard is not. I will not be paid less than a guy scrubbing bathrooms at Mickey D's but I also know I'm at a certain level of skill. Those who don't have a certain level of skill should realize they're not going to be paid and honestly shouldn't - work on your studies!. In FA the other problem is already outlined by Zeddish...it's a buyer's market of who you cater to.

My main beef with artists is that they're looking at this as "Well I'm gonna draw art cuz you can make money on FA"

No skill required. Then they just post fetish stuff, and then create drama as to why they're not getting paid. FA should not be your meal ticket. Nor should it be some side work to avoid paying taxes. You want to do this as a business, learn the business and the skills required. I can understand not doing work at a certain skill level because it takes time from your other job. I find that perfectly valid. It's the desperate artists that want to make money and then dare call themselves artists as they treat FA like some meal ticket and expect certain wages that bug me.


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## south syde dobe (Jun 12, 2010)

Donryu said:


> something that may help
> 
> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/924810/



That was the most awesome thing I've read on FA


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## Aleu (Jul 28, 2010)

Wow, this is incredibly helpful. I'll keep these in mind.


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## kuwaizair (Aug 23, 2010)

guess I am SOL everywhere huh? guess I should just rip off wildspiritwolf and any of the sparklegods from deviant art.


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## Kushaba (Nov 26, 2010)

super helpful for me. if anyone checks my page then they will see i am trying hard to keep a constant update rate and try to improve my art. 

but with my current thoughts on my art i really dont' think i would like to take commissions because i have the feeling i would only be asked to draw porn.


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## Iudicium_86 (Nov 26, 2010)

I _hope_ to attain a skill level where I'm comfortable with opening myself to commissions. I just recently opened myself to trades and have only 1 slot out of six open right now since they filled rather quickly. Which makes me happy. I have a very good turnaround, usually within 24hrs for a completed piece (colored and everything) unless of course things are going on like a holiday such as thanksgiving right now, but this weekend I'm going to finish the 3 I haven't started yet. As for how I stand out, I think I have that covered. I work with pastel on black and love creating a unique atmosphere. I've only rarely seen styles even generally resembling mines. 

Some examples: Rage - Cute - Sexy


So be honest, with some improvement of my own (such as with the hands and some structural work) would I be commissionable??


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## Hayakain (Dec 6, 2010)

I'd have to disagree with the term "commissionable."
While I'm all for honing your craft, there is no set of rules that dictate whether someone is "good enough" to open commissions; everything is only worth as much as people are willing to pay.
In short: Yes, strive to better yourself always, it is both enjoyable and rewarding. No, do not feel that there are lines drawn and that you have to live up to anyone else's expectations to offer commissions.


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## Arshes Nei (Dec 6, 2010)

lurk moar.


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## Noko (Aug 5, 2011)

I want to try to do commissions for FREE 

Just don't expect anything fancy :0


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## Arshes Nei (Aug 5, 2011)

Noko said:


> I want to try to do commissions for FREE
> 
> Just don't expect anything fancy :0



Those are not commissions. They're called REQUESTS.


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## Eclipsed_Soul (Aug 11, 2011)

Hayakain said:


> I'd have to disagree with the term "commissionable."
> While I'm all for honing your craft, there is no set of rules that dictate whether someone is "good enough" to open commissions; everything is only worth as much as people are willing to pay.
> In short: Yes, strive to better yourself always, it is both enjoyable and rewarding. No, do not feel that there are lines drawn and that you have to live up to anyone else's expectations to offer commissions.


I really enjoy your comment it is very reassuring compared to what I have read! ^^


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## boyohhowdy (Nov 9, 2011)

i do quick and cute shit for free, pretty much anything but DO need to make money.

I wouldn't want to force anyone to hand me money for a picture but if they feel they could I would be more than happy, also I think for a digiatl peice that only took some free time and not any applicable resources, its not fair to charge over $10.


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 9, 2011)

Eclipsed_Soul said:


> I really enjoy your comment it is very reassuring compared to what I have read! ^^



Then quite honestly, you're not reading and just want an answer that makes you happy vs critical thinking.

The thread is about factors there are no rules but reasons. And you have to think with the mindset with why you're not getting commissions. You shouldn't bitch and moan you don't get them when you think someone lesser than your skill is getting them.


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## Pogiforce (Feb 5, 2012)

What's wrong with wanting answers that make you happy? THe alternative would be seeking answers that make you unhappy! And besides that, positive feedback helps creatives find the inspiration to create and share with others. If all people tell you is how you should give up, and how your stuff sucks, and continually talk about your work like it's gutter trash, are you going to want to make art anymore? Depression is a great way to wipe out any desire to do creative things. That's part of my problem, because I wouldn't be on this topic if I didn't have an issue with commissioning. I seriously undersell myself because I, quite simply, lack the self esteem.  That might be partly due to the fact that my most readily available art critic (who will rename nameless to prevent drama) can't give positive feedback to save their life and can only tell me the millions of things they think is wrong with it, even stuff that, to me, sounds like made up horseshit.

but anyway, personal venting aside, my point is you shouldn't chastise Eclipsed Soul for enjoying the encouraging comment. I thought this thread was for helping people figure out how to do commissions, not scare them away from the prospect. Though granted the way the topic was introduced the OP might as well have put "You're not commissionable. Quit trying."

Now in my case, I'm here because again I lack the self esteem to price myself honestly. I'm almost certain when I do set prices I under price. and I also seem to have a problem with attracting people to my page so they see I'm doing commissions, so it might be an issue of advertising as well.
Some of my recent(last 6 months) work.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/7003635
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6597214
I tend to take a lot longer with pieces at this level than, say, the other stuff posted in the last six months, but then again I've heard stories of certain big name artists taking a year to complete a lineart commission, so...


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 5, 2012)

If you're only here to do art for money and are unhappy with the answers I'm giving then you're doing art for the wrong reasons. If you are upset because I chastised someone for doing something that takes a business skill which involves critical thinking and just looking for answers that just make you happy you're in for a world of trouble. Remember you're dealing with people's money.

If you don't have the esteem to price yourself honestly, then you need to gain that confidence. People trying to set up their mini businesses but can't handle working these things out may need sit down and think, should they really start selling artwork.  

The reason I come off discouraging about this is because upcoming artists worry about popular furries, "why they gotta make the money" and then not focus on their craft. The part I like to encourage is people to focus on their craft first - that's more rewarding in the long run. By doing so you understand the value of your work and why you should price what you're comfortable charging.


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## Pogiforce (Feb 5, 2012)

That makes a lot of sense and in it's own way is fairly encouraging.


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## Arshes Nei (Feb 5, 2012)

Pogiforce said:


> That makes a lot of sense and in it's own way is fairly encouraging.



I hope you understand, that my thread is not about getting people not to draw. My thread is about stop worrying about if you're going to make money. Draw first. There's no set rules as I said in the the first post but factors and I was rather irritated when someone responded back that "your thread shouldn't use "commissionable" because there are no set rules" It's like...do you guys bother to read (not towards you, but the person who responded)?

Drawing is something I do whether or not I make money. Drawing for money is something that takes a stronger mindset.


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## Syn (Feb 12, 2012)

I get all of the points in this thread and a lot of them make me think, but also, there is this to consider :

Commissions are also hard to get for those who are not popular on the site. 
It's plain and simple fact, no matter how much it stings.

You could be an artist of skill, but if no one knows you, you're SOL.
The porn factor is one too, as a few people here have pointed out.

But yes, Anatomy is big, and i'm working on that, but asking for critique is fine too, honestly, the feedback (And you have to be ready for it to hurt) can help you look at your work with a more critical eye.


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## Kailombax (Mar 6, 2012)

I pretty much agree with what Syn and Arshes Nei have said. 

I recently opened up head bust commissions at the beginning of the year and haven't really been successful but I try not to let that get me down because I really like to draw, it's as simple as that. Though I do know it's really because I'm not well known on the site and I don't draw porn either so I'm pretty sure that those are a few factors of my downfall right now. 

And yes, I highly agree that anatomy is a very big factor and like Syn, I'm working on it too.


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## ADF (Apr 23, 2012)

Yeah I know, mostly inactive (but sticky) thread. But it should probably be noted that if you don't get picked for a commission, it isn't the commissioner loudly declaring that your art sucks.

This actually happened to me not too long ago. An artist directly messaged me offering commissions (when I asked to keep offers in thread, but NM) and I told them their style of art simply wasn't what I was thinking of for this particular commission. They then got back to me asking I explain why their art sucked.



> as for my style, I hear this a lot and yet no one tells me exactly what my style is or why they dont like it. I always hear this. So please tell me why does my style suck to so many people?



I commission people a fair bit and I can say with experience one of the biggest problems I encounter are people offering who are wholly unsuitable for the described commission. I'm talking artists without a single reptile in their gallery offering to do scaly characters, or cutey chibby artists offering in mature threads. People looking to get hired offering in every hiring thread available, regardless of their suitability.

All of the factors mentioned in this thread are of course important. But if you don't know your style; you don't know your audience. Offering in every thread available, regardless of the desired style of work, is just going to leave you feeling rejected.


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## Arshes Nei (Apr 23, 2012)

ADF said:


> Yeah I know, mostly inactive (but sticky) thread. But it should probably be noted that if you don't get picked for a commission, it isn't the commissioner loudly declaring that your art sucks.
> 
> All of the factors mentioned in this thread are of course important. But if you don't know your style; you don't know your audience. Offering in every thread available, regardless of the desired style of work, is just going to leave you feeling rejected.



That's a good point. If I'm looking for a certain kind of work, like cuddly kittens 2012 no matter how much I like Craig Mullins, Boris Vallejo for example, I'm going to glance them over if David Coleman or Joe Weatherly is in the mix.

ADF is being polite, but I also feel you have to be a good salesman and not harass customers when they're looking for something particular. I don't want the pots and pans guy banging at my door when I'm actually looking for the vacuum sales rep. So know your limits and don't act too desperate.


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## Thaily (Apr 24, 2012)

ADF said:


> People looking to get hired offering in every hiring thread available, regardless of their suitability.



Glad I'm not the only person who noticed that. It really bothers me when people don't seem to read the OP and just have a standard bit they cut&paste into every single commission thread. They're just adding unnecessary noise to thread and making it harder for the suitable artists to get noticed.

Commissions are work for pay, while it's flattering when people are willing to pay for your work, they're not supposed to be used as an ego boost. 
Maybe if more people realized that, people would take the quality of their work more seriously rather than wanting to get acknowledged for their current level of work. Then people would feel more secure about their work and we'd have more realistically priced, quality work available. Maybe we could even get rid of some of the bargain hunting assholes trying to take advantage of us.
If anything, we could get rid of people who offer free art in commission threads -_-


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## Aldino (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm probably working with at least my thirteenth or fourteenth commissioned artist so I have seen the best and worst of them all.  Typically the most common problem with commissions is that the artists will work on their time schedules. This is not always a problem but, if you have a full time job, go to school and live by yourself you probably won't have time for commissions. However people will still offer commissions anyway, and then when they can't get them done in even a semi-reasonable timeframe they will shower you with excuses and reasons that they haven't even contacted you in half a month.

It's not the worst thing thats happend to me but it is the most prevelant problem with the artists that I have worked with. If you don't think you can do a commission because of your current lifestyle then just say no. Its a lot easier and will piss off your commissioner a whole lot less than wasting half a year of my time.


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## ADF (Apr 24, 2012)

Aldino said:


> I'm probably working with at least my thirteenth or fourteenth commissioned artist so I have seen the best and worst of them all.  Typically the most common problem with commissions is that the artists will work on their time schedules. This is not always a problem but, if you have a full time job, go to school and live by yourself you probably won't have time for commissions. However people will still offer commissions anyway, and then when they can't get them done in even a semi-reasonable timeframe they will shower you with excuses and reasons that they haven't even contacted you in half a month.
> 
> It's not the worst thing thats happend to me but it is the most prevelant problem with the artists that I have worked with. If you don't think you can do a commission because of your current lifestyle then just say no. Its a lot easier and will piss off your commissioner a whole lot less than wasting half a year of my time.



There is an artist I'll refrain from naming, because I honestly don't think they are a bad person; just made ill thought out decisions. Who owes me $195 worth of art, the most late piece being from November last year. I think "rock and a hard place" is appropriate in their case, because I'm juggling between being annoyed at their complete lack of progress in many months; and the frequent sob stories in their journal having me feel guilty at being annoyed at them. This person took on a unmanageable number of commissions while they were unemployed and now they've found employment; is struggling to find the time to actually work on the back log. My impression of them is they are both financially and emotionally fragile, which makes prompting them for updates on progress (or lack of) a tip toeing exercise.

Them aside, there are two other artists who owe me art from months back. One still hasn't even looked at a message I sent them asking for a update 18 days ago, the other just looked at my messages (both of them) and didn't bother getting back to me. Though looking at their account, they have no problem doing art for other people...

It's because of people like these that I've now had to adopt a "rough sketch first" policy before sending payment. Granted, it wouldn't have helped with those other two; because they both did provide a initial sketch but then nothing more. As tempting as commission money may seem, all these artists have eliminated any possibility of me ever becoming a repeat customer. Assuming I ever get my first commissions from them. If they do this to many people, they'll soon find themselves without buyers. At least, I'd like to think there are consequences for poor customer management.


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## Kit H. Ruppell (Apr 24, 2012)

I do free requests only, and even then infrequently.


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## RTDragon (Jun 11, 2012)

Well for me since i don't really bother with commissions considering the horror stories i've been hearing about them. So quite a few people mostly do art trades and requests.


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## FairyStar (Jul 4, 2012)

I know I haven't posted anything up in awhile, but it's due to an art block and lack of internet for now :/
I DID have commissions open before, I closed them last night, and only had them open for bill money. But now that I have a job I really don't need them. I am still curious if my art even is commissionable, granted I might be some very bad critiques...even tho I have them but oh well.

http://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/fairystar/

I've been trying to get new ideas and such, and I know I need to try and draw up those males. Just find females more fun to draw than anything.


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## Domiskinos (Jul 25, 2012)

removed


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## ScaredToBreathe (Jul 25, 2012)

Aden said:


> But is it _commissionable_ nice?


Most certainly.


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## Arshes Nei (Jul 25, 2012)

Domiskinos said:


> What do you think?



I think you should stop spamming. 

You're certainly not commissionable. You're annoying, work on that and your art.

http://eskiworks.tumblr.com/post/24598694135 - Relevant.


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## AxM (Jan 22, 2013)

It's such a nitpicky thing. Cause everyone has their own standards on quality and such, so it just comes down to the person (both the seller and the buyer's) preference. Some people could be told their art is crap, but the artist says their art is good. Who am I to judge? I'd like to think my art is commissionable, but again, it just comes down to whose in the market and if you have what they're looking for ;v; I agree with your post 100% though!!


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## Badgerkatch (Sep 16, 2013)

I agree with AxM 
:3


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## RTDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

Well since this showed up in my tumblr dashboard today related to this. http://artist-confessions.tumblr.com/post/61519286960/


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## ADF (Sep 18, 2013)

The idea that commissioners should boycott artists that undercharge is a silly one. While I'm sure there are many artists who are annoyed by those who undercut them, it's unreasonable to place the responsibility of combating that on the customer. The customer is out to get the art they desire at a price that suits them, if an artist willingly offers to do work at a price they themselves set; then it is reasonable to expect them to accept that offer. While it is good to pay more should you feel you got a service above what you paid, avoiding cheap artists is something the artistic community would like commissioners to do, as opposed to what actually serves the customers interests. People tip, but no one goes into shops to argue the prices higher.

At the end of the day if the product isn't to a certain standard, no amount of undercutting will attract sales. Cheap prices are a way of highlighting your work, but it doesn't make up for shoddy quality and service.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

I don't see a boycott. I see a suggestion to be more fair minded about the whole thing.


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## ADF (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't see a boycott. I see a suggestion to be more fair minded about the whole thing.



The link was basically if you hire low charging artists you have no shame and should feel bad, that you're supporting slave wages, arguing basically that you shouldn't hire such people.

It's not the responsibility of the customer to police the artistic community of price undercutting. If an artist comes to them offering their services, and sets the prices themselves, if its appealing to them it's unreasonable to expect them to reject that offer because it annoys/hurts a 3rd party outside of that deal.

Now I don't hire people charging that low because often it's a reflection of skill level, that they don't produce the sort of work I would like. But if they did, I'd likely add extra to show appreciation, but I wouldn't be doubling/tripling the offer or avoiding the artist entirely just to make a point relevant only to people on the other side of that transaction.


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## RTDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

Did you actually pay any attention to any of the other posts in that link i've posted ADF? Considering with links like these i look at it much deeper.

Also read the comments on the Disqus as well on that link there are quite a lot of valid points.


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## Verin Asper (Sep 18, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I don't see a boycott. I see a suggestion to be more fair minded about the whole thing.


The way I'm reading it is that they don't commission those who charge themselves less. Understand that person when they see someone who is undercharging they opt to just not commission them. Another person spoke up saying "if you dont commission them, said artist then cannot gauge their worth truly as often an artist would price something low to get a feel on how much their art is worth base on who and how many commissions they get. I do understand that artist should be pricing themselves where it benefit themselves the most but I do think on their situation also comes into play.

then this lil line does piss me off a bit


_"Iâ€™m only doing this for fun, I donâ€™t care about the money."_ - Good for you. But there are others that are trying to make a living doing this. Have some consideration for them, yes?


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## ADF (Sep 18, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> Did you actually pay any attention to any of the other posts in that link i've posted ADF? Considering with links like these i look at it much deeper.



I read the post you linked. If someone links a news story, you read the story and rightly assume that's the content that was linked to be shown. What goes on in the comments section is just a collection of views from other people who have read it, secondary to the primary content of the link. 

So no I didn't read the comments, if you wanted people to then you should have mentioned.


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## RTDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

ADF said:


> I read the post you linked. If someone links a news story, you read the story and rightly assume that's the content that was linked to be shown. What goes on in the comments section is just a collection of views from other people who have read it, secondary to the primary content of the link.
> 
> So no I didn't read the comments, if you wanted people to then you should have mentioned.



You really should. The disqus are there for a good reason besides the tumblr reblogs. Considering the person that posted that wasn't an anon comment that is saying something.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 18, 2013)

So a commissioner confesses why they won't pay artists that are undercharging and saying it's not fun  when they have to over tip them because it gives the wrong impression that the artist is doing an awesome job. 

Suggests that others maybe start doing the same and tells artists to stop doing underpricing themselves at least. They're silly?


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> So a commissioner confesses why they won't pay artists that are undercharging and saying it's not fun  when they have to over tip them because it gives the wrong impression that the artist is doing an awesome job.
> 
> Suggests that others maybe start doing the same and tells artists to stop doing underpricing themselves at least. They're silly?



I made my meaning clear enough in the above comments.

The role of the commissioner is to get the desired work at a price they are willing to pay, not try to discourage aspects of the artistic community that are mostly only relevant to other artists rather than the commissioner. I'm sure artists would like commissioners to avoid undercutting artists, like any business would like the cheaper competition to be avoided, but it is a unrealistic expectation for most commissioners. As a customer it doesn't make them bad to not put sellers interests above their own.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 19, 2013)

The role of the commissioner is one can do whatever he/she wants and stated the reasons why. You're the one grossly misinterpreting what was said. It's in fact *nice* to see someone on the commission side state something like this and say why - vs basement dwellers and people still staying at home trying to get a cheap buck out of everyone else.


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The role of the commissioner is one can do whatever he/she wants and stated the reasons why. You're the one grossly misinterpreting what was said. It's in fact *nice* to see someone on the commission side state something like this and say why - vs basement dwellers and people still staying at home trying to get a cheap buck out of everyone else.



No shame, supporting slave wage and now you live in your parents basement if you use cheap artists.

Another one for the list of what I apparently misinterpreted. But I'll try to refrain from further derailing this thread, no sense in arguing over interpretation when I already said my piece.


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## RTDragon (Sep 19, 2013)

ADF said:


> No shame, supporting slave wage and now you live in your parents basement if you use cheap artists.



Are you implying you have no shame in supporting underpricing wow you really are a hypocrite from what i've been reading from your posts on here. Now i see why experienced artists get upset at people undercharging as well as the entitled mentality for most new artists.


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> Are you implying *you* have no shame in supporting underpricing wow you really are a hypocrite from what i've been reading from your posts on here. Now i see why experienced artists get upset at people undercharging as well as the entitled mentality for most new artists.



Since you're inviting a response... I stated earlier I don't use the ultra cheap artists because they frequently don't provide the quality of work I like. Your assumption that I do use cheap undercutting artists so have a motivation to defend them, is based solely that I argued it's not the commissioners responsibility to police artist pricing, and that the idea they should feel bad about taking part in a mutually agreed on transaction is silly.

Why should the commissioner feel bad about adhering to the artists terms? What you mean is artists would 'like' them to feel bad because they don't like these sort of pricing tactics, and if they don't feel bad then they want people to think that customer is a bad person for accepting the offer freely given to them...

Of course it's subjective. A skilled artist charging $30+ for a sketch may hold the same view of the typical artist offering them for $10-$15. Who gets to decide what is the acceptable market price of a piece of work other than what the customer and seller agrees on?


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 19, 2013)

Why should we pay anyone above minimum wage?


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Why should we pay anyone above minimum wage?



Artists in employment are legally required to receive the minimum wage, like all employment.

The prices offered by artists in freelance work are set by those artists, it's up to them whether they charge the equivalent of minimum wage or not. You're basically looking at someone who chose of their own free will to set the prices the way they did, complaining, then demonising their customers.

There is a large artist to commissioner ratio as I'm sure you know, the inevitable consequence of an over supply in any market is falling prices. So short of policing FA commissions to the point that you are hand picking who can and cannot offer commissions like some sort of dictator, this isn't going to change. Even if you did try to force a restriction on the supply of artists, you'd just be pushing people to look for work elsewhere.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 19, 2013)

Ok. So artists should be paid below the minimum wage. Just making it clear.


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Ok. So artists should be paid below the minimum wage. Just making it clear.



I think everyone can read what I said just fine...


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## Ansitru (Sep 19, 2013)

ADF said:


> Artists in employment are legally required to receive the minimum wage, like all employment.
> 
> The prices offered by artists in freelance work are set by those artists, it's up to them whether they charge the equivalent of minimum wage or not. You're basically looking at someone who chose of their own free will to set the prices the way they did, complaining, then demonising their customers.
> 
> There is a large artist to commissioner ratio as I'm sure you know, the inevitable consequence of an over supply in any market is falling prices. So short of policing FA commissions to the point that you are hand picking who can and cannot offer commissions like some sort of dictator, *this isn't going to change*. Even if you did try to force a restriction on the supply of artists, you'd just be pushing people to look for work elsewhere.



It could change if people:
- started valuing art and tell people when they're severely underpricing their work
- stopped price-wanking and complaining about artists being rip-offs when they dare charge "_living wages_" instead of "_fandom wages_".

It's all fine and dandy to say that "_if they offer their art for such low prices, I'd be stupid not to take the deal_", but you are essentially taking advantage of someone who is (most of the time) uneducated about minimum wage and does not know how much they could and should be charging.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 19, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> It's all fine and dandy to say that "_if they offer their art for such low prices, I'd be stupid not to take the deal_", but you are essentially taking advantage of someone who is (most of the time) uneducated about minimum wage and does not know how much they could and should be charging.



It's the "Fuck you, got mine" syndrome. It's awful especially if you're going to complain in other threads about how cost of living isn't working, yet take advantage of another group in the process. But if "it's never going to change" might as well go with "Fuck you, got mine".


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> It could change if people:
> - started valuing art and tell people when they're severely underpricing their work
> - stopped price-wanking and complaining about artists being rip-offs when they dare charge "_living wages_" instead of "_fandom wages_".
> 
> It's all fine and dandy to say that "*if they offer their art for such low prices, I'd be stupid not to take the deal*", but you are essentially taking advantage of someone who is (most of the time) uneducated about minimum wage and does not know how much they could and should be charging.



That wasn't the argument I made...

In both offered instances, the commissioner is portrayed as either the exploiter or the aggressor. I keep having to reinforce that it takes two, but the whole responsibility is being placed on the customer. You can't force these artists to charge more, so the customer is being targeted instead...


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## Ansitru (Sep 19, 2013)

ADF said:


> *That wasn't the argument I made...*
> 
> In both offered instances, the commissioner is portrayed as either the exploiter or the aggressor. I keep having to reinforce that it takes two, but the whole responsibility is being placed on the customer. You can't force these artists to charge more, so the customer is being targeted instead...



Except: 


> If an artist comes to them offering their services, and sets the prices  themselves, if its appealing to them* it's unreasonable to expect them to  reject that offer *because it annoys/hurts a 3rd party outside of that  deal.



You can't force them to charge more, but you _can_ tell them when they are undercharging and educate them on minimum wage.
What they do with that info is ultimately up to them, but then at least you have tried explaining that what they are charging is nowhere near enough for the effort they put into the art.

You know, instead of just going "_OOH, GREAT DEAL._" and taking advantage of an (in most cases) uneducated artist who just needs to be given info.

--

Edit: Oh. Shit. I just noticed what you meant with "_not the argument you were trying to make_". Apologies for that!
 Even if an abundance in artists means a fall in prices, what I mentioned would still help people be more confident about their pricing, instead of always thinking they need to out-cheap the competition, even if it comes to a point where doing commissions starts _costing them money_, because they are told they need to drop their already low prices.


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Except:



I said it was unreasonable to expect someone to reject an offer *because a third party doesn't like it* (the bit right after you didn't bold), not, that they're stupid for not accepting such low prices.

There is a difference, you know there is a difference, but you and Arshes Nei are too busy demonising commissioners. That's a great way to form a good buyer/seller relationship by the way, have disdain for the customer, pile all the perceived problems with the artistic community on them...



Ansitru said:


> You can't force them to charge more, but you _can_ tell them when they are undercharging and educate them on minimum wage.
> What they do with that info is ultimately up to them, but then at least you have tried explaining that what they are charging is nowhere near enough for the effort they put into the art.



Here's the thing. The last commission I took on I said they were undercharging and I upped the price a bit. One of the commissions before that I tipped them $10 because I thought the piece was worth more than the charged price.

So I'm actually following your recommendations already. But because I'm not hating on people who don't do the same, that's the same as guilt to you.



Ansitru said:


> You know, instead of just going *"OOH, GREAT DEAL."* and taking advantage of an (in most cases) uneducated artist who just needs to be given info.



I'm not going to explain for a third time that I don't do this, I really shouldn't have to. But hey I'm not agreeing with you, so I must be bad.

All I see this as is a frustration from certain artists about others undercutting them, so they hate on anyone that rewards that undercutting by demonising the customer.


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## Ansitru (Sep 19, 2013)

ADF said:


> I said it was unreasonable to expect someone to reject an offer *because a third party doesn't like it* (the bit right after you didn't bold), not, that they're stupid for not accepting such low prices.
> 
> There is a difference, you know there is a difference, but you and Arshes Nei are too busy demonising commissioners. That's a great way to form a good buyer/seller relationship by the way, have disdain for the customer, pile all the perceived problems with the artistic community on them...



Do you know why third parties do not like seeing artists taken advantage of? Because it creates this idea in the mind of some commissioners that art is like fast food: cheap and there when you snap your fingers. I have gotten more comments than I care to count from people who think that because my prices are not the deviantART-norm of 5-50 points, I am trying to _rip them off_. This is where undercharging becomes bad for the community as a whole, because it creates expectations about what art should cost. 




> Here's the thing. The last commission I took on I said they were undercharging and I upped the price a bit. One of the commissions before that I tipped them $10 because I thought the piece was worth more than the charged price.
> 
> So I'm actually following your recommendations already. But because I'm not hating on people who don't do the same, that's the same as guilt to you.




You seem to think that everything I've mentioned in terms of behaviour  is describing your personal behaviour, when in fact I'm talking about  generalized behaviours.
Then again, if the shoe fits..




> I'm not going to explain for a third time that I don't do this, I really shouldn't have to. But hey I'm not agreeing with you, so I must be bad.
> 
> All I see this as is a frustration from certain artists about others undercutting them, so they hate on anyone that rewards that undercutting by demonising the customer.



And a victim-complex to boot. I'm offering my opinion on this matter, you offer yours.
And guess what? It *is* mostly on the customer if they take advantage of artists underpricing themselves instead of telling them about minimum wage and what they could / should be charging (though I do tell fellow artists when I can). 

You know why this is such a frustrating thing for us? If we so much as dare charge proper wages, we get insults hurled at us because we are "overreaching" or "ripping off" or "out of our heads" because people think that the undercharging prices are the norm. I'll ask you this: how would you like it if you, doing your job, would constantly be told that what you are doing is not worth what you are being paid for it, because "_India has cheaper workforces. Why can't you work for those wages?!_". Then try to keep calm when you're told this about 5-6 times any given week.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 19, 2013)

If you're paying someone 30 dollars for a sketch. Sketch takes them 2 hours with no corrections or correspondence - not minimum wage.

But if they have to wait for your reply back, make corrections or take longer...


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## Ansitru (Sep 19, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> If you're paying someone 30 dollars for a sketch. Sketch takes them 2 hours with no corrections or correspondence - not minimum wage.
> 
> But if they have to wait for your reply back, make corrections or take longer...



I do agree that part of it is the artist needing to work out how much they value their work, but if you don't give people a reasonable reference-frame of "_doing this for one hour would get you $x, whereas working this job, you could earn $x, plus factor in material-cost etc._", then they'll look to the prices ranging from $1-20, think that's the norm and huzzah! Another undercharging artist joins the masses.


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 19, 2013)

That's the thing, if they can't think of reasonable times when others are able to complete the work, they should work on getting better so that a certain price is ok. HOWEVER. If you get really big 500 for a sketch may not be unreasonable given that as a pro you can work and earn thousands.


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## ADF (Sep 19, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Do you know why third parties do not like seeing artists taken advantage of?



As I pointed out before this can be subjective, whose to say from the perspective of a higher paid artist that the others aren't being exploited? According to Arshes Nei just now, *YOU* are one of these under priced artists, judging by your commission information. How do you feel about that?

But this isn't the real issue being made here. 



Ansitru said:


> Because it creates this idea in the mind of some commissioners that art is like fast food: cheap and there when you snap your fingers.



This is, this is what it's all about. Some artists don't want to see price competition, but since they cannot force someone to price their own work out of the market; they try to discourage people from buying from them. That's what it comes down to.



Ansitru said:


> You seem to think that everything I've mentioned in terms of behaviour  is describing your personal behaviour, when in fact I'm talking about  generalized behaviours.
> Then again, if the shoe fits..



Sorry, I've got multiple people accusing me of this behaviour in here so I must of mixed up you perpetuating that.



Ansitru said:


> And a victim-complex to boot. I'm offering my opinion on this matter, you offer yours.
> And guess what? It *is* mostly on the customer if they take advantage of artists underpricing themselves instead of telling them about minimum wage and what they could / should be charging (though I do tell fellow artists when I can).



I'm sure the artist knows about minimum wage without the customer having to tell them, keeping in mind this is an international website and the minimum wage will vary.

I keep saying this. It's not the customers job to police artist pricing and it's unreasonable to think otherwise, they go into a commission arrangement based on the artists term of service. Whenever I look at a artist to commission *I look at their commission terms*. But rather than criticise the artist people are going after the customers, which is a very unproductive way of going about this.

If I was to commission you I'd look at your commission sheet. Are you really telling me that by operating on your terms, that I'm exploiting you?



Ansitru said:


> You know why this is such a frustrating thing for us? If we so much as dare charge proper wages, we get insults hurled at us because we are "overreaching" or "ripping off" or "out of our heads" because people think that the undercharging prices are the norm. I'll ask you this: how would you like it if you, doing your job, would constantly be told that what you are doing is not worth what you are being paid for it, because "_India has cheaper workforces. Why can't you work for those wages?!_". Then try to keep calm when you're told this about 5-6 times any given week.



You tell those people to fuck off, when you operate as a freelance artist you can say no, you are your own boss. But as we all know there is a lot of competition in the commission market, competition drives down prices. No one on the receiving end ever likes this, but that doesn't mean you hate your customer base for market forces. That's a very quick way to lose commissioners.

There is a point were the ideal collides with the reality, you cannot do business based on how you'd like the market to be. If people like Arshes Nei had their way, none of the people that is being claimed are exploited would be able to sell art at all. Prices would be so high that anyone below a certain skill level would be priced out completely, which is the point isn't it? To kick them out, reduce the supply of artists. Pay would be better, but far less would be benefiting from it.


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## Ansitru (Sep 19, 2013)

ADF said:


> As I pointed out before this can be subjective, whose to say from the perspective of a higher paid artist that the others aren't being exploited? According to Arshes Nei just now, *YOU* are one of these under priced artists, judging by your commission information. How do you feel about that?



I can work fairly quickly, so I charge according to the time I spend on the pieces. And while I would love to be able to raise my prices some more on (for instance) my pixels, seeing as everybody expects prices at $2 or less, I can not. I picked a price-point with which I feel comfortable, which still is a fair compensation for the time I spend on the pieces (pixels can take as little as 1h or 2h, and seeing as detailed characters take longer, I mention extra fees) and is more than a pittance. 



> This is, this is what it's all about. Some artists don't want to see price competition, but since they cannot force someone to price their own work out of the market; they try to discourage people from buying from them. That's what it comes down to.



I wouldn't discourage people from buying from these artists. Rather, I'd encourage the artists to raise their prices if they are charging ridiculously low prices.



> Sorry, I've got multiple people accusing me of this behaviour in here so I must of mixed up you perpetuating that.



No problem.



> I'm sure the artist knows about minimum wage without the customer having to tell them, keeping in mind this is an international website and the minimum wage will vary.
> 
> I keep saying this. It's not the customers job to police artist pricing and it's unreasonable to think otherwise, they go into a commission arrangement based on the artists term of service. Whenever I look at a artist to commission *I look at their commission terms*. But rather than criticise the artist people are going after the customers, which is a very unproductive way of going about this.
> 
> If I was to commission you I'd look at your commission sheet. Are you  really telling me that by operating on your terms, that I'm exploiting  you?



You'd think they would, and yet ... people are surprised when I tell them that 40 cents for a piece that takes them two hours is not fair pay. 
The trouble lies with the fact that quite some teenagers are also in the commission-business, both as artists and as commissioners. 

You are also falsely assuming that I did not calculate my prices based on the time I spend on my pieces. I worked my prices out according to $8/h, which is not much, but it is at the very least minimum wage. 
Fees for detailed characters, excessive fixing of things that are not a mistake on my part and so forth are also mentioned, but can not be calculated in to the flat-fee for obvious reasons.



> You tell those people to fuck off, when you operate as a freelance artist you can say no, you are your own boss. But as we all know there is a lot of competition in the commission market, competition drives down prices. No one on the receiving end ever likes this, but that doesn't mean you hate your customer base for market forces. That's a very quick way to lose commissioners.
> 
> There is a point were the ideal collides with the reality, you cannot do business based on how you'd like the market to be. If people like Arshes Nei had their way, none of the people that is being claimed are exploited would be able to sell art at all. Prices would be so high that anyone below a certain skill level would be priced out completely, which is the point isn't it? To kick them out, reduce the supply of artists. Pay would be better, but far less would be benefiting from it.



I never said I did not have the ability to tell them to get lost. I was merely arguing the point that people see things for 10 cents and expect every artist charges this much.
And if one artist doesn't? Rip-off, obviously. And while yes, I can tell them to bugger off, it doesn't change the fact that this indicates a shocking lack of respect for artists and knowledge about prices overall.

And while you may not agree with this, I personally would like to see more "novice"-artists focuson actually improving rather than to immediately start  together commissions, most of whom only sell the occasional commission here and there because they undersell themselves severely.


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## Art Vulpine (Oct 14, 2013)

Yeah the lack of Watches and favorites are what makes me leery of commissioning. (Sigh) Well, I do draw for fun and not as a career, but the link between popularity and commissioning makes sense.


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## RTDragon (Oct 21, 2013)

ADF said:


> You tell those people to fuck off, when you operate as a freelance artist you can say no, you are your own boss. But as we all know there is a lot of competition in the commission market, competition drives down prices. No one on the receiving end ever likes this, but that doesn't mean you hate your customer base for market forces. That's a very quick way to lose commissioners.
> 
> There is a point were the ideal collides with the reality, you cannot do business based on how you'd like the market to be. If people like Arshes Nei had their way, none of the people that is being claimed are exploited would be able to sell art at all. Prices would be so high that anyone below a certain skill level would be priced out completely, which is the point isn't it? To kick them out, reduce the supply of artists. Pay would be better, but far less would be benefiting from it.



Well in the long run it would be far better and people would appreciate art even more and work harder to improve their craft. Plus the fact not everyone is here to make money off their craft. There are hobbyist that improve their craft so they can enjoy art. I don't know why you would bring an argument like this up since if i recall you used to draw as well. (I remember a thread you posted years ago that reminds me of it perhaps at the old FA forums.)


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## ADF (Oct 21, 2013)

RTDragon said:


> *Well in the long run it would be far better* and people would appreciate art even more and work harder to improve their craft. Plus the fact not everyone is here to make money off their craft. There are hobbyist that improve their craft so they can enjoy art.



For who?

Placing artificial restraints on the supply of commission art would only serve the established artists, everyone whose work wasn't deemed worth whatever the minimum pricing is; would be priced out of the market entirely. So it certainly wouldn't be better for them, it wouldn't be better for the customer either because they'd have less choices. Not that such restrictions would have any affect on hobbyists doing art for the joy of it (not to say those who sell don't enjoy drawing outside of commissions), they'd be trying to improve their work regardless of what goes on in the commission market.



RTDragon said:


> I don't know why you would bring an argument like this up since if i recall you used to draw as well. (I remember a thread you posted years ago that reminds me of it perhaps at the old FA forums.)



I 'attempted' to draw out of interest years ago but it didn't go anywhere. Not that any of these arguments would be relevant to me, given I wasn't trying to learn with an intent to sell. I do write occasionally though, and I've never been comfortable with the idea of selling such work. Any written work I've done for others was done as a gift. Any professional writers suggesting me giving away stories hurts them may want to consider if their work is truly professional, because I'm a casual writer at best and would hardly compete with quality work.


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## RTDragon (Oct 21, 2013)

ADF said:


> For who?
> 
> Placing artificial restraints on the supply of commission art would only serve the established artists, everyone whose work wasn't deemed worth whatever the minimum pricing is; would be priced out of the market entirely. So it certainly wouldn't be better for them, it wouldn't be better for the customer either because they'd have less choices. Not that such restrictions would have any affect on hobbyists doing art for the joy of it (not to say those who sell don't enjoy drawing outside of commissions), they'd be trying to improve their work regardless of what goes on in the commission market.



Well the professionals who have it as a living as well as artists who actually will be priced fairly, Plus it will be quality over quantity as well as a variety of subjects. Plus i do think the community mainly the furry community needs more variety even though most new artist don't understand that jumping headfirst into commission work is not that easy. That it takes time.


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## Milo (Nov 14, 2013)

I think my two biggest problems are

1. anatomy

2. time

I've been considering trying to put myself up for commissions, but it always comes down to the fact that I'm bad at anatomy, and even if I fixed that problem, I've always been a VERY slow drawer.


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## magic-doogies (Feb 17, 2014)

> What's wrong with wanting answers that make you happy? THe alternative would be seeking answers that make you unhappy!



There is nothing wrong with answers that make you happy. Providing that the "happy" answer is the truth. However if you want a answer that makes you feel good for the sake of deluding yourself then it's only going to get worse for you.



> If all people tell you is how you should give up, and how your stuff  sucks, and continually talk about your work like it's gutter trash, are  you going to want to make art anymore?



If people are telling you that then you need to report it. However this is about commissions and at the end of the day if your art isn't good enough for people to see worth in paying you money for then that is that. Either you improve your art and technique or you simply do it as a side hobby and focus on another field to gain your main income.



> I thought this thread was for helping people figure out how to do  commissions, not scare them away from the prospect. Though granted the  way the topic was introduced the OP might as well have put "You're not  commissionable. Quit trying."



Commissions like any other field like it is a business. It involves confidence, the love of the craft (and constant improvement of it), competition, aggressive advertising on your part, and promotion. If your lacking then your lacking. No amount of complaining is going to change that. You need to *give* people a reason for why they should commission your stuff and not the other artist. The OP was blunt but truthful. That's how the commission field works. It's a harsh but necessary reality to accept.


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## Inignem (Feb 17, 2014)

The increase of the offer always causes the prices to drop. This is the oldest, saddest and most true living tale of the book of Economy.


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## schwa16 (Jul 29, 2017)

I can´t find any commissioners in FurAffinity, I looked at all these points and I think I´m okayish? I guess this "2. Watches matter to an extent" could be an issue, I have 27 watchers and it feels enough for me but what is enough then to be commissioned? Am I doing something else wrong?

Also, I have sold commissions offsite but I´m not doing anything differently at other sites.

This is my commission info : forums.furaffinity.net: Commission (Selling): - Cute Kemono Style Commissions OPEN ($7-$16)

Same but a journal (it´s new, I had one before but deleted it after making a new one.):
www.furaffinity.net: COMMISSIONS OPEN (info here) -- schwa16's Journal


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