# Computer Retarded



## Jankin (Jul 14, 2009)

I'm computer retarded, as indicated by the title. Now, I can do some things and I learn quick, but can someone help me out in picking out a lap top?


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## lilEmber (Jul 14, 2009)

First thing people will need to know is your price range and what you want it to do/what you want it for.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 14, 2009)

NewfDraggie said:


> First thing people will need to know is your price range and what you want it to do/what you want it for.



Aye, and as with all things in life, remember that you "get what you pay for."  Spend less than $1000, and you're going to get a cheap laptop that may or may not last for more than 2 years.

Other things you might consider - how important is security to you?  Do games matter?  Does where it's made matter to you (IE, made in the US vs. somewhere else)?


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## Shino (Jul 14, 2009)

Without more info, it's hard to make a good suggestion, but right off the bat, I'd reccommend HP if you want a decent notebook.

Still, please give us the following:

*Price Range (preferrably a "want" and a "max" price.)
*Operating System prefrence, if any. (i.e. Windows vs Mac)
*What you'll be using it for. (Internet/Word, movies/music, gaming, on-the-go, etc)
*Preferred size (mega 17" home-theatre, tiny 12" carry-around, 14" multi-purpose, etc)
*Any pre-existing prefrences or anything you're already eyeing.
*If you're looking for a netbook or not. (Basically, a netbook is a small, cheap, underpowered version of a notebook designed for basic internet and word-processing functions only.)


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## Runefox (Jul 14, 2009)

A Fragbook DRX with desktop Core i7 Extreme 975 and 6GB of DDR3-1066 RAM.


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## Ty Vulpine (Jul 14, 2009)

I had a Sony VAIO for about a year-year and a half, and never had problems (cost about $750) except for teh time I accidently plugged it into a faulty outlet and fried the motherboard (thankfully it was under warranty and Sony fixed it free.)


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## ToeClaws (Jul 14, 2009)

Runefox said:


> A Fragbook DRX with desktop Core i7 Extreme 975 and 6GB of DDR3-1066 RAM.



*laughs* Yeah, get that and you should be fine regardless of what you're doing.



Ty Vulpine said:


> I had a Sony VAIO for about a year-year and a half, and never had problems (cost about $750) except for teh time I accidently plugged it into a faulty outlet and fried the motherboard (thankfully it was under warranty and Sony fixed it free.)



A year isn't very long though.  To me, a good laptop should run problem-free for a bare minimum of 5 years.  I'd rather retire it because it's so old that I can't do anything more with it rather than something broke.


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## Taj (Jul 14, 2009)

Before I begin - 
Consumer= what you find in box stores and on commercials, generally flimsy laptops that look pretty.

Business class= what you order from the business section of the companys website, generally very sturdy and rugged laptops, made to withstand the neglect of employees who dont care.

From years of computer repair experience, I would suggest you NOT go with these consumer brands:

HP
Gateway
Compaq

Consumer laptops are cheap, and are usually all parts and no reinforcement, which causes most of the dc jack/hard drive/screen/inverter/hinge problems in laptops.

I would suggest a business class laptop for durability and longevity, these brands in particular:

DELL (dell business rocks, consumer is shit)
HP (same as dell)
IBM/Lenovo (I would say these are the best out there for construction quality/longevity)

If you dont have access to business class laptops or dont want to wait for shipping from a corporate website, and REALLY want a pretty consumer-grade laptop, I would suggest these brands, mainly because I almost never see them in the shop:

Acer
Asus
Toshiba

I base all my judgement off my 6 years of computer repair, and I feel that I have an (almost) unbiased opinion of brand quality.

Oh and if you want a laptop that just works and is fun to use and will last you for a while, get a mac, but they are marked WAY up and arent really worth what they sell them for.


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## Taj (Jul 14, 2009)

> If you're looking for a netbook or not. (Basically, a netbook is a small, cheap, underpowered version of a notebook designed for basic internet and word-processing functions only.)



Netbooks as they are right now can do a lot more than just internet and word processing, I wouldnt call them basic in any sense, the only difference is they have a slower processor and a little bit less memory than a regular laptop.

That being said gaming is out of the question on them.

My acer aspire one cost me $300, and does everything I need it to do.  I generally use it for listening to music, internet, movies, IM, word processing,  scheduling, accounting, wireless hacking, network diagnostics, a mythtv client, and a whole hell of a lot more. 

Honestly netbooks can do everything a bigger laptop can do, only slightly slower (i dont really notice it), and they cant play games as well.

If you dont use CAD, dont game too much, want amazing battery life (I have a 12 cell battery and it literally lasts 10 hours of normal use without dimming the screen), and want something really light (~2.5 lbs), a netbook is great, but note that it does not have a CD drive, and the screens are generally tiny.


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## Runefox (Jul 14, 2009)

Wanna know something? In terms of reliability, I'm gonna have to give not only Lenovo, but also LG a big nod. My laptop is currently a salvaged LG XNote LS50a with a 15" 1024x768 screen, Intel PRO Wireless 802.11g, Pentium M 1.5GHz, 768MB DDR RAM and Intel 855GM graphics that I only had to replace the hard drive for. Its previous owner busted it up pretty bad, and the frame is covered in scratches, cracks, and even missing pieces. The only issue I've really ever had with it is that the DC power jack has broken on several occasions, but the beautiful part is that it sits on a small daughterboard along with the RJ-11/RJ-45 jacks, meaning that it's localized to a very small area. The internal frame is all aluminum, and it's actually laid out quite well inside. It currently rather flawlessly runs Ubuntu 8.10 complete with compositing and Compiz desktop effects, and more recently has been running full time with an SSH/NX server to extend my network with a full-time *NIX box that isn't my pfSense router.


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## Carenath (Jul 14, 2009)

Simple solution, take a look at Dell's Vostro range of laptops, fantastic machines.


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## Jankin (Jul 14, 2009)

Sorry for being vague! I want a laptop that can handle some games as well as word process and access internet. I want to be able to play oblivion and newer games like Spore and Bioshock 2. I would like to be able to at a minimum, run an MMORPG. My preferred price range is $0-600 (Let's face it, free is awesome) But I can go up to $1000 if necessary. Oh, and operating program does not matter. Neither does size. It can weight 50 lbs and I'd still get it. As long as it's smaller than a desktop, I'll be happy.


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## Raithah (Jul 15, 2009)

Just a point of interest, laptops will typically cost more for similar specs - its ability to run software - in comparison to desktop computers. In light of that, if you're wanting to play recent video games, it would be more cost effective to purchase a desktop (not to metion possible at all; cheap gaming laptops start at the higher end of your price range!). You mention that you want anything smaller than a desktop, is that due to a need for portability or restricted space availabe? If the latter is your concern, try looking into [small form factor] PCs. They're much more upgradable and, in general, significantly cheaper than notebooks.


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## Jankin (Jul 15, 2009)

^^ I'm aware desktops are cheaper but I sort of lack the space to set one up.
I know it's doubtful I can find one, but I would like to try, and find one that can run some more recent games. I know that it will cost more, but if anyone has any tips? Or tell me at what price range I start losing the ability to run games? If someone could name examples of laptops and prices and games they could run..?


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## ToeClaws (Jul 15, 2009)

The only way you'll get a decent (not great) quality laptop for gaming that's in the $0-600 range is to get a second hand one on E-bay at a good auction price, or by hitting refurbished and open-box outlets from Dell and other manufacturers.  

Understand that when you ask something like that, it's like walking on a car dealer lot and saying "I want a really good car that has leather seats, power everything, at least 350hp and goes really fast - but I'm looking in the price range of 0 to $19,000."  

Jankin - I have been around block a few times here.  I've been spec'ing out hardware for people and businesses for about 18 years now.  If there is one thing above all others I would suggest to you, it's save up more money, and get a _good _system like everyone's been suggesting.  If it takes a few extra months, the wait won't kill you, and it will be well worth it.  In the meantime, you can check Dell's Refurbished Outlet to see if a fairly top notch business model is available.  The big perk of this buying method is being able to get a laptop for about half it's normal market value, yet, you get the full warranty and perks of a new purchase.  Sometimes it's because it was returned for repair, sometimes it's just because of cosmetic damage - either way, it's a win for you.


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## Runefox (Jul 15, 2009)

Mm, no. You're definitely not going to get something that will play Oblivion or Bioshock 2 nicely for $0-$600; You might be in luck if you expanded that to about $800, though that's really the floor. I don't really know of any sub-$600 notebooks that don't have Intel Integrated graphics or something silly like a Radeon HD 3200 or a GeForce 9100. They'll probably run Spore fine - Spore's system requirements are actually quite low.

You'd probably do well to try Dell since you're looking for budget, and ToeClaws' recommendation for their refurbished business line is definitely a good place to start. The only problem is that the business line is even less concerned with graphics performance, and hence you'll be buying a very reliable and rugged word processor/web browser.

If you absolutely wanted something brand new, then look at the Dell Vostro 1520, which is $589. It's plenty powerful in terms of actual processing power, RAM, etc, but it's definitely not suited for gaming any further than the likes of Spore. It will definitely not run Oblivion very well, and I doubt it will even try to run Bioshock 2. If you spent an extra $100 to upgrade to the GeForce 9300M GS, you'd stand a bit of a better chance, and you'd probably be able to stuff Oblivion into it, but very likely not Bioshock 2.


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## Ty Vulpine (Jul 15, 2009)

Not Dell. Dell laptops blow. My brother got one, and had nothing but problems. The laser for the CD-ROM broke, the hinges that keep the screen up broke, etc etc etc. (Hence why I twist Dell's old slogan to "Dude, you got F----'ed by Dell!")


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## Carenath (Jul 15, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> The only way you'll get a decent (not great) quality laptop for gaming that's in the $0-600 range is to get a second hand one on E-bay at a good auction price, or by hitting refurbished and open-box outlets from Dell and other manufacturers.
> 
> ...Sometimes it's because it was returned for repair, sometimes it's just because of cosmetic damage - either way, it's a win for you.


Of course I would strongly NOT recommend ever buying/using a laptop for gaming, heat, battery life and general performance is never going to approach that of a PC and the laptop will have a shorter lifespan.

This is the reason I bought my UPS off ebay, I got an APC UPS for about 1/3 the original retail price and it's working perfectly.


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## Runefox (Jul 15, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Not Dell. Dell laptops blow. My brother got one, and had nothing but problems. The laser for the CD-ROM broke, the hinges that keep the screen up broke, etc etc etc. (Hence why I twist Dell's old slogan to "Dude, you got F----'ed by Dell!")



Dell Inspirons blow. Dell Vostros and Latitudes are solid machines that can take years of punishment - There's a reason why they're given the distinction of "Business-class". They also take better care of their business computer customers - regardless as to whether or not you're really a business.

All the same, for a bit more, Lenovo's lineup is almost universally more reliable than anything else out there, save things like Toughbooks. They're pretty legendary.


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## Jankin (Jul 16, 2009)

Alright, I'm looking into the Dell Vostro and it looks solid. Think it could run city of heroes? I've been looking to play an MMO and cant decided which, but I want the portability of a laptop. Would WOW maybe work? I hate to stoop that low (No offense, i just dont want to play with a bunch of little kids who are playing all hours because it's cool now).


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## Runefox (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, I'm not sure about the Intel integrated for CoH and WoW, but if you sprang for the GeForce 9300M GS, then you could definitely run them, at maybe around medium-low settings. I can't say for sure what the Intel chip could do, but I wouldn't expect any miracles from it. It's designed mostly to render the desktop and play videos, and I've seen benchmarks that put it at 30 frames per second in Counterstrike: Source, which is only really just playable.


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## ToeClaws (Jul 16, 2009)

Ty Vulpine said:


> Not Dell. Dell laptops blow. My brother got one, and had nothing but problems. The laser for the CD-ROM broke, the hinges that keep the screen up broke, etc etc etc. (Hence why I twist Dell's old slogan to "Dude, you got F----'ed by Dell!")



As Runefox points out - not all Dell's are garbage - just their low-end stuff.  Dell is one of several companies that produce both a low end (consumer grade) product, and higher end business class products.  For example, my work laptop is a Dell Precision M65.  It's a "Workstation class" laptop, and is nearing 4 years old now.  It is on every single day for the 8 to 10 hours that I'm here.  It's carted off to different buildings, meetings data closets and just about everywhere, and has never given me the least scrap of trouble.  

The difference was simple - a Precision M65 loaded up as mine was cost $2350 Cdn, whereas an Inspiron built as close to those specs as possible cost a mere $1300.  The Inspiron would have not likely survived much past the first year before the heavy use and repeated mobility of the system 'caused a multitude of physical breaks and failures.

Think of it this way... you want to go off-roading, and you can buy a used Jeep Wrangler for $10,000, or a used Hummer H1 for $20,000.  They're both off road vehicles, they both have 4 wheel drive, they're both built specifically for that purpose.  After a gruelling 8 hour day of harsh off-roading, which do you think is going to come out (or even survive) the ordeal better?  Hint: Guess why the Military doesn't use Jeeps anymore.

Laptops are no different.  The higher end, more expensive models are designed specifically to be used more and longer and take more abuse throughout their projected lifetimes.



Carenath said:


> Of course I would strongly NOT recommend ever buying/using a laptop for gaming, heat, battery life and general performance is never going to approach that of a PC and the laptop will have a shorter lifespan.



*nodsnods* Agreed.  I've said as much in another post.  Laptops squeeze a lot of hardware into a VERY small space.  Even ones designed to be better for gaming still have severe constraints on venting their heat compared to a regular PC.  And gaming while on the battery is a joke - you'll be lucky if you can do that for an hour before it's dead.  Worse yet, another big problem that I've seen ruin laptops used for gaming is when people are actually playing games while it's on their lap.  A lot of laptops (rather stupidly, in my opinion) have their cold air intakes located on the bottom, and many times, this is partially or fully where it rests on one of your legs when on your lap, blocking most or all of the airflow.  They can quickly overheat and be damaged as a result.


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## Jankin (Jul 17, 2009)

So unless I want to dump $2000 (For which I can get an orgasmic desktop) Dont get games?


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## Runefox (Jul 17, 2009)

Jankin said:


> So unless I want to dump $2000 (For which I can get an orgasmic desktop) Dont get games?



Well, more like around $1500 at minimum before you can really get into gaming on a laptop, and you're not going to get the same experience as a similar-priced PC (which would be close-on top of the line). Since your gaming needs are a little lower than "Crysis at 60FPS", you could probably get by with a system costing around $1000 with decent (non-Intel GMA) graphics, but that really depends on how badly you want to game on it and how flexible that budget is. As it is right now, my recommendation for the Vostro 1520 still stands, and if you want to get into light gaming, add the GeForce 9300M GS, and you should get acceptable (~30FPS at low settings for most of these mentioned games, not sure about Bioshock 2 though you should be in the green) performance out of it.


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## whoadamn (Jul 17, 2009)

Taj said:


> Before I begin -
> Consumer= what you find in box stores and on commercials, generally flimsy laptops that look pretty.
> 
> Business class= what you order from the business section of the companys website, generally very sturdy and rugged laptops, made to withstand the neglect of employees who dont care.
> ...


I can vouch for Toshiba, this laptop has withstood a shit-ton of grief and is still completely functional... disconsidering 2/4 of the USB ports, though I doubt any port could have survived the abuse. Just avoid repetitively dropping it with devices attached and you're good to go.


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## Liam (Jul 17, 2009)

ToeClaws said:


> Aye, and as with all things in life, remember that you "get what you pay for."  Spend less than $1000, and you're going to get a cheap laptop that may or may not last for more than 2 years.


Too true.
$900 laptop.
Switch to turn on/off wireless fell off.
Vista is finicky.
Sometimes it doesn't start up when I turn it on, just a blank screen.
The AC adapter is shit.
First one lasted 6 months.  $90 to get a new one, starting to suck again.
From what I've seen, macs are in general reliable, and pricey.

EDIT:
It's a consumer Dell.
It has survived a couple falls and an incident with a magnet that  we will not discuss.


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## ChaoticSpark (Jul 19, 2009)

@Thread title

I wish more people would acknowledge this.

I have nothing further to add to the thread.


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