# How do other artists line so neatly?



## LuxerHusku (Nov 29, 2017)

My lining is a mess. I try to steady my hand, but the result comes up wiggly. Striking helps a bit, but I do end up with likes out of what I'm drawing. Trying to clean them manually is tedious to me.

I'm using MediBang, btw. Dunno if anyone else uses it, but it helps to answer what program I'm using.

So, is there any tips to draw pretty good lines?

Here are examples of my recent work:


Spoiler


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## -..Legacy..- (Nov 29, 2017)

Lots o zoom for me.  Thin framing lines, thicker inking.

I'd change your brush or flow.  It looks broken up from low Resolution, or not enough density.


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## narutogod123 (Nov 29, 2017)

A large canvas about 3000 - 6000 pixels, set your resolution to 300-600 dpi and lots of patience. Keep in mind that you need a good computer to make a large canvas without lagging.


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## LuxerHusku (Nov 29, 2017)

-..Legacy..- said:


> Lots o zoom for me.  Thin framing lines, thicker inking.
> 
> I'd change your brush or flow.  It looks broken up from low Resolution, or not enough density.


Question: How do you manage to connect the lines just right when zoomed? I'm pretty sure you have to move the canvas in order to continue lining, correct?



narutogod123 said:


> A large canvas about 3000 - 6000 pixels, set your resolution to 300-600 dpi and lots of patience. Keep in mind that you need a good computer to make a large canvas without lagging.


Oh yeah, I use my Android tablet to draw. It's the Samsung Galaxy Tab A with S Pen. Works pretty good, in my opinion.


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## -..Legacy..- (Nov 29, 2017)

narutogod123 said:


> A large canvas about 3000 - 6000 pixels, set your resolution to 300-600 dpi and lots of patience. Keep in mind that you need a good computer to make a large canvas without lagging.



That's pretty close to what I generally use.  4K x 4K @ 300dpi.  Draw it big, and I'll clip/add workspace as needed.  When I'm done, I crop everything, and drop the size down to manageable levels.  2 gig files suck up space on the hdd quite quickly 



LuxerHusku said:


> Question: How do you manage to connect the lines just right when zoomed? I'm pretty sure you have to move the canvas in order to continue lining, correct?



I don't drop the pen until hovering the pointer is exactly where it needs to be.  If it starts off wrong, I undo it until I get it right.  I'm also using a pretty big Huion display tablet, so I can make a single pixel an 8" square if I needed. 

Sometimes I do cheat.  The line is close, so I just trim/add the color to match.


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## LuxerHusku (Nov 29, 2017)

-..Legacy..- said:


> I don't drop the pen until hovering the pointer is exactly where it needs to be.  If it starts off wrong, I undo it until I get it right.  I'm also using a pretty big Huion display tablet, so I can make a single pixel an 8" square if I needed.


Woah, that's pretty, impressive. Thank,you very much. Imma try to do that and see the difference.


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## -..Legacy..- (Nov 29, 2017)

LuxerHusku said:


> Woah, that's pretty, impressive. Thank,you very much. Imma try to do that and see the difference.



At first, I was horrible at it (still kinda am ).  Now that I have a better understanding of Krita, it's a much faster process of running through basic tools.  I'm learning where everything is, and what is the most efficient way to do any particluar task.  


The more you use your program, the more familiar you'll be with its functions.  Get on YouTube once in a while, and watch a tutorial for your platform.  When you're done, try out what you've learned.


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## LuxerHusku (Nov 29, 2017)

-..Legacy..- said:


> At first, I was horrible at it (still kinda am ).  Now that I have a better understanding of Krita, it's a much faster process of running through basic tools.  I'm learning where everything is, and what is the most efficient way to do any particluar task.
> 
> 
> The more you use your program, the more familiar you'll be with its functions.  Get on YouTube once in a while, and watch a tutorial for your platform.  When you're done, try out what you've learned.


I forgot I can look up tutorials on YT. Again, thanks for the help. BTW, is there anything you like to critique about my the art I posted?


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## -..Legacy..- (Nov 29, 2017)

LuxerHusku said:


> I forgot I can look up tutorials on YT. Again, thanks for the help. BTW, is there anything you like to critique about my the art I posted?



I think it looks pretty good. There's a little bit of color outside lines, and a couple extra lines, but that's easily fixed.  When you think you are done, just zoom in.  Look all over, and just do a quick clean up as you find things.  Walk away for a few minutes, and do another quick double check.


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## LuxerHusku (Nov 29, 2017)

-..Legacy..- said:


> I think it looks pretty good. There's a little bit of color outside lines, and a couple extra lines, but that's easily fixed.  When you think you are done, just zoom in.  Look all over, and just do a quick clean up as you find things.  Walk away for a few minutes, and do another quick double check.


Thanks for pointing that out. That was what I meant when trying to line my art.


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## -..Legacy..- (Nov 29, 2017)

LuxerHusku said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. That was what I meant when trying to line my art.



I'm not sure how the program you're using is, but zoom in, make your brush size real small, and do tiny touch ups.  A different brush will give you a crisper looking, defined line as well.  Whatever you were using on the first image was definitely different than the last two. 

Keep up the good work!


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## silveredgreen (Nov 29, 2017)

LuxerHusku said:


> I forgot I can look up tutorials on YT. Again, thanks for the help. BTW, is there anything you like to critique about my the art I posted?



It looks pretty good, other than what was mentioned earlier the yellow character's head is kinda big. I recommend using a select tool to separate the head from the body and make it a bit smaller before reattaching it. That way you don't have to redraw the whole thing.


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## LuxerHusku (Nov 29, 2017)

silveredgreen said:


> It looks pretty good, other than what was mentioned earlier the yellow character's head is kinda big. I recommend using a select tool to separate the head from the body and make it a bit smaller before reattaching it. That way you don't have to redraw the whole thing.


Hey, I'm really glad you guys are helping me out . I'll fool around with MediBang more and see what I can do to mix things up.


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## RhelArts (Nov 29, 2017)

The biggest trick I can give you is make a line in *one fluid motion*.

I can't really explain it too well in text, but rather than repeatedly 'sketching' over where you want your lines, focus on instead making the full stroke in one motion. This will involve a LOT of ctrl+z, but produces much neater linework. For example:



Spoiler: This was done with repeated strokes.













Spoiler: This was done with 2-3 strokes.











Lineart is a very fickle thing, but if you be patient with it and focus on making your motions more fluid, you'll find your lines will be, too.


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## narutogod123 (Nov 29, 2017)

LuxerHusku said:


> Question: How do you manage to connect the lines just right when zoomed? I'm pretty sure you have to move the canvas in order to continue lining, correct?



There is a way to have the same image zoomed out while u are working in photo shop and clip studio I don't know about medibang.

helpx.adobe.com: Viewing multiple images in Photoshop


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## JCobalt (Nov 30, 2017)

If you have a little cash to spend, I have been really happy with using Lazy Nezumi.  It stabilizes the little inconsistencies your tablet reads and makes solid curved lines beautiful and easy to do.  I get really uptight about line quality, even when I'm working so high res that no one will notice little wobbles, so this just helps me get through it.  I think it's improved my digital work tenfold over the last year of drawing with it, so check it out.  You'll still have to spend some time getting used to it, but like anything you end up practicing, the rewards are usually worth the effort.


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## redfox_81 (Nov 30, 2017)

Flip or rotate your canvas when it comes to drawing lines that require unnatural wrist/arm motions: I find it much easier to draw when I'm pushing my wrist, rather than pulling it. 

It's hard to explain and will depend on whether you're a righty or a lefty, but, for example, if I'm drawing an arc that starts at the bottom left and goes to top right (or vice versa), that's natural for me. But if I need to draw an arc from top left to bottom right (or vice versa), then I need to PULL my wrist across myself, which feels weird and results in a shaky line. One way I get round this is to flip my drawing so I can do the arc in reverse, which is the most natural way for my hand. Then I flip my drawing back and the arc is the "right way round", but I drew it backwards. Hope that makes sense?!

Also, draw with your shoulder and be confident. Good lines are ideally about strong, confident strokes. Whether it takes one attempt or ten, show that line who's boss!


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## zorua (Dec 2, 2017)

JCobalt said:


> If you have a little cash to spend, I have been really happy with using Lazy Nezumi.  It stabilizes the little inconsistencies your tablet reads and makes solid curved lines beautiful and easy to do.  I get really uptight about line quality, even when I'm working so high res that no one will notice little wobbles, so this just helps me get through it.  I think it's improved my digital work tenfold over the last year of drawing with it, so check it out.  You'll still have to spend some time getting used to it, but like anything you end up practicing, the rewards are usually worth the effort.



@JCobalt Do you know if Nezumi has Paint Tool SAI support?

(Or what program have you been happy using it with?)


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## JCobalt (Dec 2, 2017)

zorua said:


> @JCobalt Do you know if Nezumi has Paint Tool SAI support?
> 
> (Or what program have you been happy using it with?)



I use it with Photoshop Elements 11.  I'm pretty sure it has SAI support as long as you can hook it into the program.


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## fralea (Dec 3, 2017)

zorua said:


> Do you know if Nezumi has Paint Tool SAI support?



Yeah I use it with sai (for the perspective guides mostly)


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## -..Legacy..- (Dec 3, 2017)

If you're not already, a glove will help keep your hand from chattering (sticking to the screen and releasing).  As soon as you feel it, you naturally apply a little more force, it releases, and the line jumps the intended track.


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## Inkblooded (Dec 3, 2017)

I am still figuring out this myself but the best advice I can give is something we've all heard before, and no one wants to hear.

Practice.
Just keep doing it. Keep lining. Over and over. 
I know it's bad, I hate lining, it slows down my art progress so much because I find myself redoing the lines over so many times, but even I am slowly getting better.
Compared to 2016 where I used to draw with heavy line stabilizers on  Paint Tool SAI (usually 10 to s-1 setting) now I am only using 1-5.

Also another tip: only you are really paying attention to the line quality. Most people when they see your art wont notice the tiny little flaws in lineart.
In fact a lot of sketchy art people like. It's just because you're the artist you see it way easier than anyone else, but trust me when I say that nobody else will notice.

But honestly your lines are not bad at all. They are a lot better and smoother than my bad lines. Don't worry about it too much.


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## zorua (Dec 4, 2017)

fralea said:


> Yeah I use it with sai (for the perspective guides mostly)



Thanks for the info!


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 4, 2017)

Drawing (or, more accurately, inking) bigger than your intended final size is the big one. Using fewer smooth strokes is generally supposed to help, though I find I still tend to use a ton of short, repeated strokes, I just am super anal about where they end up. A lot of it is likely to come down to finding what brush/brush settings suit your individual inking style.

For me, making ample use of the space bar (the keyboard shortcut for panning and zooming in SketchBook Pro - I believe it does panning but not zooming in Photoshop?) has helped improve my inking, because it makes it more convenient to move around on my canvas to where I am most comfortable working on the details I'm currently covering, thus reducing the temptation to draw them where my range of motion is more limited just to save myself the bother of swapping tools to move around the canvas.


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## Magnavox (Dec 6, 2017)

Lazy Nazumi- A stabilizing plug in for Photoshop. I don't do much digital painting but that is what I was recommended. 

Also you might consider lining in a vector based program. you can move the paths around and adjust the width at your leisure. Also when doing shapes like chains you can simply convert your line into a compound path, then set an outline on that shape. Saves about an hour of work!


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 7, 2017)

Magnavox said:


> Also you might consider lining in a vector based program. you can move the paths around and adjust the width at your leisure. Also when doing shapes like chains you can simply convert your line into a compound path, then set an outline on that shape. Saves about an hour of work!


The only vector based program I've seen that has any decent notion of pressure sensitivity is Flash, and that isn't really very useful on the "moving paths around" front. Admittedly, I'm also a bit of a grouchy old-timer in some regards, so it's possible I missed some neat developments over the last 5-10 years. Is there software out there now that will do decent vector-based organic lines?

Best approximation (with the absolute best line smoothing I've seen) I've encountered is probably Autodesk's InkBook, but I don't believe they've put out a PC version. Unfortunately.


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## SarcasticSpook (Dec 7, 2017)

I personally have the stabilizer on SAI set to as low as it'll go. My hands have a very bad habit of shaking and thankfully my lineart has improved a lot more once I discovered that handy little feature


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## Magnavox (Dec 7, 2017)

I'm used to doing work with adobe illustrator, and it defiantly takes some getting used to. You don't really need the pressure sensitivity, and it automatically stabilizes your lines. It has a lines width tool, plus preset profiles for the lines. With the tablet you can use the brush tool to do lines, or use the blob paint mode to paint shapes. of course you can also skip the tablet entirely and just use the pen tool to create points and edit curves. The main reason I favor vector graphics is that the art is completely scale able. No struggling with resolution.

The only free program I ever did vector graphics with was inkscape, which is okay.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 7, 2017)

Magnavox said:


> I'm used to doing work with adobe illustrator, and it defiantly takes some getting used to. You don't really need the pressure sensitivity, and it automatically stabilizes your lines. It has a lines width tool, plus preset profiles for the lines. With the tablet you can use the brush tool to do lines, or use the blob paint mode to paint shapes. of course you can also skip the tablet entirely and just use the pen tool to create points and edit curves. The main reason I favor vector graphics is that the art is completely scale able. No struggling with resolution.


Vector graphics absolutely have the advantage of scalability, no question about that. Completely uniform line weights just don't tend to look as appealing to people as variation to suggest things like volume and light sources; that's where the pressure sensitivity comes in. Just wondering if more recent vector software does better in that regard than my creaky old CS2.


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## fralea (Dec 7, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> Vector graphics absolutely have the advantage of scalability, no question about that. Completely uniform line weights just don't tend to look as appealing to people as variation to suggest things like volume and light sources; that's where the pressure sensitivity comes in. Just wondering if more recent vector software does better in that regard than my creaky old CS2.



You don't sound very familiar with vector drawing. Photoshop has supported line weight in vector drawing for years (I believe I learned vectors around 2002ish?), though I couldn't say which versions have or don't have it, but its one of the main functions of vector aka stroke. When you stroke the vector (as opposed to using fill) you can edit the stroke to have whatever kind of line weight/variation you want.

Here's a random example video:





and here's another way, I can't remember if you can do this method in PS:





and since people have mentioned sai, here's how that program handles it:


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## Magnavox (Dec 7, 2017)

Here's something I'm lining at the moment (early stages). An Alfons Mucha inspired piece. You can see the points I have changed the width on vs. the constant width points.

Do you taper the widths down at the tangent points or keep them the same width?

Mungo (Jerry?), Send me an example of and 'organic outlined' piece and I'll duplicate it.  Not sure what you have in mind.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 7, 2017)

fralea said:


> You don't sound very familiar with vector drawing. Photoshop has supported line weight in vector drawing for years (I believe I learned vectors around 2002ish?), though I couldn't say which versions have or don't have it, but its one of the main functions of vector aka stroke. When you stroke the vector (as opposed to using fill) you can edit the stroke to have whatever kind of line weight/variation you want.


I actually use/d Illustrator to create backgrounds for MLP Tumblr updates, but no, I've never been introduced to variable line weights in any of Photoshop's or Illustrator's vector tools - to the best of my knowledge applying preset brushes to paths doesn't do the kind of thing I have in mind, and that's the closest I've seen done in the past. Based on the logo he's got on some of his other Photoshop tutorials it looks like the video you posted is based on Photoshop CC, which is _way_ past what my rental-software-hating ass uses. 

To be clear, my intent was never to poo-poo vector inking. Good vector work is great for all kinds of things. Rather, I was lamenting how I'd yet to see the kind of flexibility with line weights that I'd like, and asking if that aspect has improved any since the software versions I use. Evidently, it has.



Magnavox said:


> Mungo (Jerry?), Send me an example of and 'organic outlined' piece and I'll duplicate it. Not sure what you have in mind.


I'll have to step outside of my usual "use my own art for examples" principle, as my line weight variations tend to be subtle as hell. While this comic doesn't have _Sin City_ levels of dramatic inking or anything, it's a pretty decent example of good brush inking that I'd not have the first clue how to effectively duplicate with vector inks:


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## fralea (Dec 7, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> which is _way_ past what my rental-software-hating ass uses.



As mentioned there are other programs like sai, inkscape, etc that have vector capability. As well as that I learned it before PS became a rental program, but I don't recall which version. If it was in 2002 as I'm thinking, that would have been before CS2 was even released. I don't know all the different capabilities of every version of PS so I couldn't say what CS2 can or can't do. But PS was never intended as adobe's vector art program, that would be illustrator. So what you'd want is a really old version of illustrator instead.


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## YiffDaddee (Dec 7, 2017)

Try using the flick of your wrist and line faster instead of slow strokes, it'll do you wonders. As much as it's tempting, slow lining leads to more problems than it'll do you good.


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 7, 2017)

fralea said:


> But PS was never intended as adobe's vector art program, that would be illustrator. So what you'd want is a really old version of illustrator instead.


Oh, I'm well aware that Illustrator is Adobe's vector child; the backgrounds in the Tumblr post I linked are all Illustrator. I can't swear to it that CS2 might not have line weight options somewhere, but if it does they're well hidden, as I've been using it since 2006, I believe, and have yet to see any hint of them.


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## fralea (Dec 8, 2017)

quoting_mungo said:


> Oh, I'm well aware that Illustrator is Adobe's vector child; the backgrounds in the Tumblr post I linked are all Illustrator. I can't swear to it that CS2 might not have line weight options somewhere, but if it does they're well hidden, as I've been using it since 2006, I believe, and have yet to see any hint of them.


Actually I don't know why the heck I said 2002, it was more like 2009. So I guess it would have been after CS2. Sorry about that brain fart. I'm sure you're right about CS2.


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## Magnavox (Dec 9, 2017)

I have Illustrator CC and 6.0. I think it was added after 5 or so. Here's the demo.


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## redhusky (Dec 9, 2017)

I "sculpt" my drawings so I tend to get cleans lines with erasing. 
I have some vids up in YT channel if you want to see.


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## Katook (Dec 10, 2017)

paint thick or sloppy lines then go over them with eraser and make them whatever thickness I want afterwards.
Traditional inking I have to be less sloppy and do even thin lines for the whole base pic and then go over with different line weights and make it thicker that way
tattooing I pray for the best(lol jk)


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## midnightsparky (Dec 10, 2017)

Honestly, I find that inking can be a real PITA... if your are a perfectionist as I am...

I've toyed around with both vectors and regular inking. Vectors are handy to correct stroke oddities/errors, but can be tedious to edit. Flip side is scalability...I've done a few pieces in vectors and was happy with the outcome, even though inking regularly was faster for me.

For most regular inking though, I find that getting the right stroke in one go the best. This involves many layers and heaps of undos!

I generally will stroke one line, and when happy, create a new layer to do the next line...repeating for as many lines as I need... So for a head I could end up with 50 layers before merging down. I do it this way so I can erase excess strokes easily... and finally I merge the layers down as I go until I get the desired final layer (eyes, head, hair, etc).

I cannot confirm it yet (will hopefully soon) but your tool of choice might make a matter too (besides obs softwares)... I have an XP-Pen 22... but feel the pressure mechanics are not perfect. Won't know until I can compare (a Cintiq is the hopeful come January 2018)...There are many softwares and tools though, so I cannot make a comparison really


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## RailRide (Dec 10, 2017)

I use Inkscape here and there for inks, and when I want varialble linewidth, I cheat 

Instead of putting down single-width lines with transparent fill, I make narrow filled triangles or diamonds intersecting points along penciled curves underneath, then bend/stretch them to fit over the pencils.

This program also has variable width strokes, I think it's the calligraphy tool, but I learned the above method before I learned of it in a YouTube video. Since I'm used to not actually *drawing* anything in Inkscape from the ground up (and being a vector application, it's not really suited to freehand drawing, to the best of my knowledge)

(edit: it appears Inkscape's Bezier tool can automate the method I described at the top.)

---PCJ


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## quoting_mungo (Dec 11, 2017)

Magnavox said:


> I have Illustrator CC and 6.0. I think it was added after 5 or so. Here's the demo.
> View attachment 25033


Color me impressed! About how long does something like this take you?



RailRide said:


> Instead of putting down single-width lines with transparent fill, I make narrow filled triangles or diamonds intersecting points along penciled curves underneath, then bend/stretch them to fit over the pencils.


That's a remarkably clever workaround!


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## ArtyLoop (Dec 11, 2017)

> Instead of putting down single-width lines with transparent fill, I make narrow filled triangles or diamonds intersecting points along penciled curves underneath, then bend/stretch them to fit over the pencils.



That's exactly what I do... pretty much the only way to do it in Corel Draw X5


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## ariala (Dec 11, 2017)

I don't have a tablet, or any fancy art programs - I just use the line/curve tool in Paint.NET. The lines come out very smooth, but sometimes they end up looking a bit stiff. I do find that adding more lines to them to create an ink-like tapering effect helps with the stiffness though.  Here's an example.


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## ArtyLoop (Dec 12, 2017)

I started work on my own fursona refsheet today, and I disabled something in Corel Draw, and like OH MY HAT.. its even easier and more natural now.


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## Magnavox (Dec 12, 2017)

around two hours- I found my work sped up if I did the lines first, then adjusted the widths afterwards.


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