# First person 'VS' Third person



## DarknessHaven (Mar 30, 2010)

Well, I had a question about first person and third person prespective.

I wanted to know what you guys thought is the better of the two. I know that it's really a matter of preferance but i'd still like to see what the main thing is.

I personally balance my writing between the two though I find that first person is a bit easier to write because you just have to put yourself in the state of mind and pretty much pretend that you're telling the story from your point of view. Third person is a bit harder but it's alot more detailed and such.

So yeah, Just wanted to see what you guys thought about the whole First VS Third person stuff.


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## M. LeRenard (Mar 30, 2010)

I think we already had a topic like this a while back, but since I can't remember I guess it doesn't matter.
Anyway, this is a lame answer, but I think they both have merits and disadvantages.  First-person makes it easier to draw in the reader, because it makes the reader feel like he's taking the helm in the story by having such a close personal relationship with the main character, but it's a bit limited insofar as narration is concerned, because the reader is limited only to what the main character knows.  Third person is more encompassing, but you don't develop quite as close a relationship with the reader.
My preference is a close third-person, where I write 'he said she said', but where I still constantly throw in the main character's thoughts alongside narration.  But I only do that because I've seen other authors do it and I really like the effect, which is verging on jarring but which gives the story a much more intimate feel.  It's just a matter of style, which one you'll end up preferring.
Don't do second-person, though.  That only works for choose-your-own-adventure stories, which are _lame_.


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## Poetigress (Mar 30, 2010)

It depends on the story you're telling. Some will work in first person, some in third. I think first person is harder to do well than third, because the character's voice has to be strong, believable, and worth listening to, which is more difficult to pull off than one might think.


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## Scarborough (Mar 30, 2010)

M. Le Renard said:


> Don't do second-person, though.  That only works for choose-your-own-adventure stories, which are _lame_.



Yo, what about Jamaica Kincaid's "Girl"?

Anyway, like MLR and PT said, it just has to do with the story you're telling. For example, it's really easy for me to write someone discovering a death from 3P, but I sure as hell'd have a hard time doing it from 1P.


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## Atrak (Mar 30, 2010)

I usually try to do third-person.

It's more open.

Also, I dare you to try second-person.

Seriously, it's nearly impossible to do and even harder to do well.

There's no such thing as impossible, though.


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## Joeyyy (Mar 30, 2010)

joeyyy dont like 1st person.

joeyyy is going to play in the special olympics


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## Atrak (Mar 30, 2010)

Joeyyy said:


> joeyyy dont like 1st person.
> 
> joeyyy is going to play in the special olympics



Timmaaaaayy!


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## Joeyyy (Mar 30, 2010)

atrakaj said:


> Timmaaaaayy!



I was going for more of the movie _The Ringer _but that works too.


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## Gem145 (Mar 30, 2010)

I'd love to have the UT3 in third person
*sigh*




well, actually, you can
but focuses on a different way and hides the visibility of the front


D:


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## Altamont (Mar 30, 2010)

As said above, it's more of a story by story basis. I usually go third person because I like to jump perspectives and focuses, although from the same omniscient POV, if that makes sense.

Think Stephen King versus, say, Jodi Piccoult.

Still, 1st person works well sometimes too especially when exploring really unique characters, like in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime. Again ,it all boils down to preference.


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## DarknessHaven (Mar 31, 2010)

Okaies, Thanks all ^^ I appreciate your opinions, I do like third person for the details and first person because it's easier to write and draw people in.

Never actually tried Second Person


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## TashkentFox (Mar 31, 2010)

Tashkent has always written in the third person.


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## Tewin Follow (Mar 31, 2010)

First person reminds me of Jacqueline Wilson's books, so I normally assume the main character is a child.
Which can be a problem.

But seriously, they usually are about younger protagonists. 

It's also (partly) why Twilight is awful to read.


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## Poetigress (Mar 31, 2010)

Twilight isn't awful to read because it's in first person. It's awful to read because it's in first person _and the protagonist's voice sucks._ That's what I meant about first person being harder than it looks.

Of course, I hated it for other reasons as well -- mainly, for me, not being able to figure out if the author really means it as a romance or a tale about an abusive, stalkerish relationship. I found it to be the latter, but the thought that Meyer might mean it as the first really started to creep me out.

It is true that first person (particularly first person present tense) is _very_ popular right now in YA fiction.


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## M. LeRenard (Apr 1, 2010)

Poetigress said:
			
		

> Of course, I hated it for other reasons as well -- mainly, for me, not being able to figure out if the author really means it as a romance or a tale about an abusive, stalkerish relationship.


Not to get off-topic, but this explains a lot about Bella's relationship with Edward.  If you know anything about Mormonism, that would answer all of your questions.


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## DarknessHaven (Apr 1, 2010)

Harebelle said:


> First person reminds me of Jacqueline Wilson's books, so I normally assume the main character is a child.
> Which can be a problem.
> 
> But seriously, they usually are about younger protagonists.
> ...


 
VAMPIRES DON'T F**KING SPARKLE! That's my thoughts on Twilight.

Not true about most of the main characters being younger, I've read many books set in first person where the main character is an older person. Kim Harrison's The Hallows series and Rachel Caine's Weather Warden series for example.

Currently i'm juggling writing two stories, One is in first person the other in third. Both of them are going along nicely and the normal differences in the detailing and such is noticable.


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## Atrak (Apr 1, 2010)

DarknessHaven said:


> VAMPIRES DON'T F**KING SPARKLE! That's my thoughts on Twilight.
> 
> Not true about most of the main characters being younger, I've read many books set in first person where the main character is an older person. Kim Harrison's The Hallows series and Rachel Caine's Weather Warden series for example.
> 
> Currently i'm juggling writing two stories, One is in first person the other in third. Both of them are going along nicely and the normal differences in the detailing and such is noticable.



They have a t-shirt that says "Real Vampires Don't Sparkle."


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## White Wolf (Apr 14, 2010)

Uh..Well..I think that third person is more formal then any other writing expierence, first person is rather informal in literature. We use informal writing in real life, on what we say, and or achieving/doing something. 

Like "I am going to the store, and buy some soda".  Formally it should be said in literature in novels, "he is going to the store, and going to buy some soda". Anyways...Thats what I think.. o.o;


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## CerbrusNL (Apr 14, 2010)

And here I was, thinking this was about Games >.<


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## Atrak (Apr 14, 2010)

CerbrusNL said:


> And here I was, thinking this was about Games >.<



Heh heh.

Welcome to the Writers' Bloc.


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## Tolgron (Apr 14, 2010)

DarknessHaven said:


> Not true about most of the main characters being younger, I've read many books set in first person where the main character is an older person. Kim Harrison's The Hallows series and Rachel Caine's Weather Warden series for example.


 
I think what she meant was that because she's read so many Wilson books (which, as she said, primarily have younger protagonists) she's fallen into the habit of assuming a child's "voice" when reading other 1st person narratives. Sort of like I always have a British "voice" when reading even when the book is by an American or Australian author.

As to 1st vs 3rd person narratives, I personally find the former difficult to read. Why exactly I can't really say, I just find the narrative jarring when it's being written in that way. Needless to say, I find it harder to write, so I generally avoid 1st person like the plague. This, of course leads me to frustration within the fandom since a good number of stories tend to be written in the 1st person.


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## ScottyDM (Apr 22, 2010)

atrakaj said:


> I dare you to try second-person.
> 
> Seriously, it's nearly impossible to do and even harder to do well.
> 
> There's no such thing as impossible, though.


I was reminded earlier of an old post of mine where I wrote a bit of a teaser in 2nd person. So many times someone says 2nd person, but what they really mean is 1st person breaking the 4th wall (an attempt to pull the reader into the story by directly addressing him or her).

Anyway, my 2nd person teaser.





> You take a long drag on your clove cigarette and look the Siamese tom up and down, appreciating his lean muscular form and six-pack abs.
> 
> "Soapy massage, 30 dolla American," he says. "Happy ending, 20 dolla extra."
> 
> You could use a bath after that beating you took from the Tong gang, and a happy ending is just what you crave. You take a final drag on the cigarette and flick the butt into the rainy night. "Yeah, sure. Let's do it."


And it is just a teaser. I'm not writing any more of that story or style.

S~


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## Toonces (Apr 22, 2010)

Second person isn't that difficult.

I tend to default to third person and switch to first person if I think a more detailed representation of a person's thought processes will be necessary for the reader to understand their actions. It's especially helpful for pulp since often half the hot stuff that's going on is inside a person's head.


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## Duality Jack (Apr 22, 2010)

Ace supports 3rd person  speech with allot of his pent up passion.

Ace thinks that shit is cool.


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## Bloodshot_Eyes (Apr 22, 2010)

I thought you were talking about videogames... 




I'll leave now...


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## Toonces (Apr 22, 2010)

Some people think it's stylish to refer to themselves in the third person, like Ricky Williams. You think the second person is much more useful, in that regard.


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## Sovhiel (Apr 22, 2010)

Lorrie Moore's "How to Become a Writer" is a really cool example of how you can use second-person in a short story.

As for the two more common points of view, I use both fairly evenly. It really does depend on what you're trying to accomplish with your story and how close you want your reader to feel to your main character (though I've read third-person stories that were closer than some first-persons). It's easier to do certain things with one point of view over another, but some stories just break away from those tendencies, and to good effect. You shouldn't try to pin one as better than another, because it will never be a solid rule, and you'll limit yourself as an author.

I like what PT said in that first-person is very popular in the young adult genre _right now_. Trends in writing are cyclical, as in most things. One style or method will become popular, then the reaction to it will sway the next group of authors to write in a fairly opposite style. Readership follows these cycles too. For example, third-person omniscient has been fairly unpopular over the last few years. Even in a well-executed book, it seems to make a large portion of readers uncomfortable. But who knows how people will feel about it years from now. I haven't written off third-person omniscient.


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## FelixBandercoot (May 4, 2010)

Hm... what about first person and third person being used in a work?

I'm using both in "Rogue" to better tell the story, although it's actually pretty difficult keeping them seperated. However, I've used third person for all of my prior works; I've just found it easier. But I must admit, I've found first person to be much more personal. You really become close to the narrator, and I found it an excellent way to form characterization.

-Felix


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## kitreshawn (May 5, 2010)

Hehehehehe!

I am scheming, this is my scheming face.  }

This thread gives me an idea for the next workshop.


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## ScottyDM (May 5, 2010)

Sovhiel said:


> Lorrie Moore's "How to Become a Writer" is a really cool example of how you can use second-person in a short story.


That article is nonfiction. *Second person in most types of nonfiction is fine.* For example when the author is telling the reader how to do something. "You put the lime in the coconut and you mix them all together."

*It isn't hard to write fiction in second person, but it's hell to read in second person,* except in a few specialized circumstances. A reader-directed story is the best example of that. "The troll king pops up in front of you brandishing an ax. You: a) scream and charge him, sword drawn; b) turn and run away."



FelixBandercoot said:


> Hm... what about first person and third person being used in a work?
> 
> I'm using both in "Rogue" to better tell the story, although it's actually pretty difficult keeping them seperated.


I too considered using both in a project. My idea was to use first person for the two lead characters (who own about 90% of the scenes) and third person for scenes written in the POV of secondary characters. That concept went away when I eliminated all the non-lead character scenes.

By "keeping them separated" do you mean that in the first draft you'd get confused switching writing styles from scene-to-scene?


When writing *internal monologue in third person* I use italics. It's archaic style to quote internal monologue. If the narrative is in past tense, then internal monologue is set off from the narrative because like dialog, internal monologue is in present tense. But that doesn't work if a piece of internal monologue happens to be only a word or two. Also, there's a trend to write the narrative in present tense. In a scene written in third person the narrator is separate from the POV character, so it's critical to keep the POV character's thoughts and words separate from the narrator's. Italics are a clean way to do that. Another technique is to let the narrator interpret what the POV character thinks rather than give the reader the character's exact thoughts.

When writing *internal monologue in first person* all that junk vanishes. The POV character _is_ the narrator.


Consider what to do when switching scenes or chapters. There are dozens of combinations, and some people have invented specific terminology to go with each of those combinations. That's an unnecessary complication.

*I like to think about first/third/omni/objective/etc. on a strict scene-by-scene basis.* For example, how many POV characters are there in scene written in third person limited? Exactly one, no exceptions. How many POV characters are there throughout a story written in third person limited? Doesn't matter. Do what the story requires, but remember: only one per scene.

Want to write one scene in first and the next in third objective? As long as it works for the story, go for it.

How do you know what works? Write it both ways and see.


Scenes? *If your story takes a jump in time, location, or POV, insert a scene break* (or a chapter if you're so inclined).

*Don't toss scene breaks into a story because your POV is sloppy.* I once read a chapter where this cop chases a perp into an alley. The cop walks past the perp, then we see the perp raise his gun and point it at the back of the cop's head and think, _I've got you now,_ and finally the cop thinks, _Uh oh, walked into that one._ That's sloppy. The author fixed it by tossing in two scene breaks.

The problem with that fix is the perp was a throwaway character. Readers don't give a flip about throwaways. The proper fix would have been for the cop to walk past the perp, then the cop would hear the click of a hammer being pulled back directly behind him, and he thinks, _Uh oh, walked into that one._

S~


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## Sovhiel (May 5, 2010)

ScottyDM said:


> That article is nonfiction. *Second person in most types of nonfiction is fine.* For example when the author is telling the reader how to do something. "You put the lime in the coconut and you mix them all together."
> 
> *It isn't hard to write fiction in second person, but it's hell to read in second person,* except in a few specialized circumstances. A reader-directed story is the best example of that. "The troll king pops up in front of you brandishing an ax. You: a) scream and charge him, sword drawn; b) turn and run away."


I don't understand your gut reaction to so clearly separate fiction from nonfiction. There is gray area; they can blur. And I think that's a part of what's so interesting about this "article"/short story: the events in the story could come straight from the author's experiences, but they could also happen to anyone. Moore manages to be specific about the general progression of events and emotions, and even about certain details, while keeping them applicable to a wide audience to keep her reader as the active person in the story, to have him imagine himself as the main character. As a satire of the rampant self-help genre and an emotion-driven reflection into personal growth, I feel it succeeds. I don't know how you're so definitively able to define the story as nonfiction or why you're so eager to write it off as a simple report.

Your example of the "okay" second-person is just the long-hand of the imperative mood, so I don't see much point in it, or why you restrict it to nonfiction. Instructions can't be given in fiction?

I'd like to think that whenever we authors write something, our goal is to convey a message to our audience, and that therefore making it hard to read would be counterproductive. If it's hard to make a second-person story readable, then I'd say it's hard to write.

Since when is a choose your own adventure story the best example of the use of second person?


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## FelixBandercoot (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for the tips.  And yes, ScottyDM, when I say "keep them seperated", I meant changing scenes from first person to third person, and so on and so forth. In any case, your suggestions were very helpful.

-Felix


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## Varian (May 18, 2010)

I personality like third person more than first because with first person you get a biest view of the story however, you also get to see the story unravel through the characters eyes. With third person you see both sides of the coin, whats going on with the antagonist and the protagonist. I feel that it has the potential to make for an interesting plot. That's just my opinion though, it ultimately depends on what your more comfortable with writing and the way you think it would match the plot best.


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## DJ_KFX (Jun 14, 2010)

ScottyDM said:


> When writing *internal monologue in third person* I use italics. It's archaic style to quote internal monologue. If the narrative is in past tense, then internal monologue is set off from the narrative because like dialog, internal monologue is in present tense. But that doesn't work if a piece of internal monologue happens to be only a word or two. Also, there's a trend to write the narrative in present tense. In a scene written in third person the narrator is separate from the POV character, so it's critical to keep the POV character's thoughts and words separate from the narrator's. Italics are a clean way to do that. Another technique is to let the narrator interpret what the POV character thinks rather than give the reader the character's exact thoughts.
> 
> When writing *internal monologue in first person* all that junk vanishes. The POV character _is_ the narrator.



Excellent comment here. I find that I have almost the exact same process, in thought and execution when writing.

I guess I tend to write more in third person, but like several other posters have mentioned it depends on how you want to tell your story. Or the nature of the story itself. I think the bottom line to writing is that you just use whatever feels (or reads) the best. If something is confusing to write, then the reader will be confused. Unless it is intentional (which most of the time it is *not*), that is probably a bad thing.


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## furvien (Jun 14, 2010)

I generaly tend to write in third person when a big action scene is goin on 
but for when a charactor is about to be knifed or killed unexpectidly from behind or something i usualy try to go into either 1st or 2nd person


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