# Am I faking?



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

Maybe just a stupid thing but actually I am a bit disappointed on a reaction I got on my last submit NSFW link to my submit at deviantart. He's claiming I would have done this with a 3d program. Which one he doesn't say. I needed countless hours, more than 30h if I had to guess, of work to do this. I've had to redo a some things x times. I am really really proud of Milly. 

He says, it's too symmetrical and and and.
Maybe he's just a hater. So does it really look like a 3d modell??? I wouldn't even know how to do this. I know they are programs out there which can do such things but I googled for cow and goat and found nothing.

Could ignore him, maybe its the best but haters can do a lot of damage you know?


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

you don't care but you answered. 

don't have cliffs nearby, what now?


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

could you demonstrate?


----------



## Namba (Dec 13, 2012)

You should mark that link NSFW. Just sayin'.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

looks 3d, but dont take that as a compiment. Its uncanny valley and something just seems off about it


----------



## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't personally think it looks like all that much like a 3D model.  You do seriously need to work on lighting, though - those are some really bright (and shockingly diffuse) highlights for not having any shadows worth mentioning.


----------



## Namba (Dec 13, 2012)

There is promise in your work, but you still need a lot of practice. For example: one of those ass-cheeks don't look quite right.
And no, it doesn't look overly like a 3D model.


----------



## Smelge (Dec 13, 2012)

It's a 3d model. You can see where you fucked up some of the shapes and tried to smooth them out, leaving odd facial contours. I seem to recall that Sculptris had the ability to let you output the finished model with a filter to make it look less 3d, and I think that's exactly what you've done.


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

Eyal Flurry said:


> You should mark that link NSFW. Just sayin'.


done. sry 4 that



Ahkmill said:


> I live in a valley, there's like, NO accessible tall areas in this place to jump off of.


neither do I have... Maybe from my carpet border...



dinosaurdammit said:


> looks 3d, but dont take that as a compiment. Its uncanny valley and something just seems off about it


That's ridiculous. I never would fake like that. I draw for 2 years now... oO


----------



## Zerig (Dec 13, 2012)

Goddamn, if that took you 30 hours, I don't think art is your forte. 

It's just really, for lack of a better word, creepy looking.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

actually its the hair that gets me, it lacks the same quality as the rest of the image. Ima say thats the major killing point for me.

And the anatomy in your avatar says anything, the two "talents" dont add up. Your avatar has all sorts of problems in the face but some how that cow has perfect facial symmetry. the lighting also looks like it was posed in a 3d modeler and you screen it. If not a model then you really need to work on your lighting and for fucks sake make the hair match the "quality" of the body


----------



## Lucy Bones (Dec 13, 2012)

There's no way you spontaneously gained the ability to draw near perfect 3D in two years.

I do believe you're bullshitting.


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

can't answer that fast



Smelge said:


> It's a 3d model. You can see where you fucked up some of the shapes and tried to smooth them out, leaving odd facial contours. I seem to recall that Sculptris had the ability to let you output the finished model with a filter to make it look less 3d, and I think that's exactly what you've done.


I do not even kno sculptris. But thx for the hint.



Eyal Flurry said:


> There is promise in your work, but you still need a lot of practice. For example: one of those ass-cheeks don't look quite right.
> And no, it doesn't look overly like a 3D model.


Thx. Never thought a criticism would become a compliment. 



Fenric said:


> I don't personally think it looks like all that much like a 3D model.  You do seriously need to work on lighting, though - those are some really bright (and shockingly diffuse) highlights for not having any shadows worth mentioning.


I know I have to work. Thats why I upload such things. I wish more people would comment on my pics and say. Dude this is fucking bullshit. You have no idea about lighning and shadowing. That is more helpfull as saying: "you faking you moron..."


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

dinosaurdammit said:


> actually its the hair that gets me, it lacks the same quality as the rest of the image. Ima say thats the major killing point for me.
> 
> And the anatomy in your avatar says anything, the two "talents" dont add up. Your avatar has all sorts of problems in the face but some how that cow has perfect facial symmetry. the lighting also looks like it was posed in a 3d modeler and you screen it. If not a model then you really need to work on your lighting and for fucks sake make the hair match the "quality" of the body



That is easier said than done. I never had to draw hair. My previous pictures were lopunny and renamon. They dont have hair. I am just at a beginning point drawing such stuff.



Zerig said:


> Goddamn, if that took you 30 hours, I don't think art is your forte.
> It's just really, for lack of a better word, creepy looking.


 No its just a hobby.  And I do not really know how long I needed. But I guess around 30 hours...


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 13, 2012)

I can't view the image as I'm ageblocked (whilst over the age of 18, no less) but I looked through your gallery.

It looks like you spend a lot of time learning by simply copying and trying stuff out for yourself, and focusing a lot on details and effects you can get in with a digital art program. That isn't bad practise, but at this point it kinda is. It looks as if you're not striving for any kind of instruction or doing any studies of how things work and such.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

explain how in two months you went from this anatomical carnival NSFW http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9022219/ to what you have above... i am still skeptical


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I can't view the image as I'm ageblocked (whilst over the age of 18, no less) but I looked through your gallery.
> 
> It looks like you spend a lot of time learning by simply copying and trying stuff out for yourself, and focusing a lot on details and effects you can get in with a digital art program. That isn't bad practise, but at this point it kinda is. It looks as if you're not striving for any kind of instruction or doing any studies of how things work and such.



Yes, thats exactly what Ive did as I begun and exactly that what I am still doing. I often just duplicate bodyparts or even the shading. I always learn in this way. Look at my lopunny. The head is not changing for month because its fine for me.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

This should really be in the art shack.

That artwork looks like terrible poser art. I'm also calling a bit of the old bullshit I'm afraid.
How about you do another piece and screencap your progress?


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

dinosaurdammit said:


> explain how in two months you went from this anatomical carnival NSFW http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9022219/ to what you have above... i am still skeptical


The background was given by a friend. It is a cgi. I say this in the youtube video Ive made out of it.
Honestly I thought both pictures have nearly the same quality. oO I fucked up the nose I know.


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> This should really be in the art shack.
> 
> That artwork looks like terrible poser art. I'm also calling a bit of the old bullshit I'm afraid.
> How about you do another piece and screencap your progress?


I made this already. You saw the link?
I have videos as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/QozbroQqn. 
Unfortunately not of Milly. Maybe I should do this afterwards.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 13, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> The head is not changing for month *because its fine for me*.



That attitude is absolutely not how anyone gets good at art, at all.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> The background was given by a friend. It is a cgi. I say this in the youtube video Ive made out of it.
> Honestly I thought both pictures have nearly the same quality. oO I fucked up the nose I know.




i said ANATOMICAL not background. Dont divert attention from the points im trying to make.


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 13, 2012)

Gibby said:


> That attitude is absolutely not how anyone gets good at art, at all.


That's what my friend uses to say.



dinosaurdammit said:


> i said ANATOMICAL not background. Dont divert attention from the points im trying to make.


 No sorry didn't had the intention to do so. Its 22:15 in germany and I am awake since 6:00. Was in the university for 10 hours. So yes I am a tired.

And I go to bed now.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 13, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I can't view the image as I'm ageblocked (whilst over the age of 18, no less) but I looked through your gallery.
> 
> It looks like you spend a lot of time learning by simply copying and trying stuff out for yourself, and focusing a lot on details and effects you can get in with a digital art program. That isn't bad practise, but at this point it kinda is. It looks as if you're not striving for any kind of instruction or doing any studies of how things work and such.



Here is the NSFW deviantART-piece.
OP: stop lying. That's a painted over 3D-model.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Well, I can only say what I think. Got no real evidence either way. But it looks like a few other artists share my sentiment...so I'm still calling bullshit.

This thread might be drawing some negative attention to your piece. Just shrug off comments you don't like if you can't learn anything from them.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

If its not a 3d model why does it have veins and other things in the hands NSFW also whats up with that filter you put over them? the background is sharp as a tack but the characters have a weird texturing to them that a filter does.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 13, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> That's what my friend uses to say.



And your friend is absolutely right. It's why you're not improving and are resorting to digitally painting over 3d models.



Ansitru said:


> Here is the NSFW deviantART-piece.
> OP: stop lying. That's a painted over 3D-model.



Can't view that either D: I lack a DA account. Ah well

Edit: Saw DD's link

There's no way that that isn't a 3D model. Quit bullshitting, OP


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Gibby said:


> And your friend is absolutely right. It's why you're not improving and are resorting to digitally painting over 3d models.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't view that either D: I lack a DA account. Ah well



Imagine a store mannequin painted hot pink with a bovine head and dead eyes.

EDIT: Ah ok, you got a look at it now.


----------



## Kosdu (Dec 13, 2012)

There's one way to know for sure....


View the YouTube vids, seriously. 

I think they are 3d, no offence, but I can't say for 100% sure unless I checked out those vids.
What if she could seriously draw like that?


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 13, 2012)

Gibby said:


> And your friend is absolutely right. It's why you're not improving and are resorting to digitally painting over 3d models.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Does this (NSFW) link work?


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

I will just leave these here

http://aeon-3d.com/

http://www.most-digital-creations.com/freestuff.htm


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

if you look here http://www.kotzbloggen.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/facefront_5_by_QozbroQqn.jpg you can see that someone used what looks like the path tool to "erase" the horns, if you look closely at the edges you can see the horns. At least its what i see


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Yeah this is a crock of shit. Way to out yourself Qunkvbfkvbfvnzxxx.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Yeah this is a crock of shit. Way to out yourself Qunkvbfkvbfvnzxxx.




notice the eyes in the dog thing and in the cow thing. they are the exact same eyes.


----------



## Recel (Dec 13, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Yeah this is a crock of shit. Way to out yourself Qunkvbfkvbfvnzxxx.



What I don't get is why OP saying it's drawn, when it's 3D? I don't see the problem in working in 3D. As someone who worked for a while in it, I can say it takes just as much effort to make something good in 3D as with a pencil (if you exclude downloadable models, and you do everything your self, like you should).
So why bother wanting people to view it as drawn?

Really someone help me out, I just don't understand what's the possible gain or point.


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 13, 2012)

Recel said:


> What I don't get is why OP saying it's drawn, when it's 3D? I don't see the problem in working in 3D. As someone who worked for a while in it, I can say it takes just as much effort to make something good in 3D as with a pencil (if you exclude downloadable models, and you do everything your self, like you should).
> So why bother wanting people to view it as drawn?
> 
> Really someone help me out, I just don't understand what's the possible gain or point.




i dont get it myself- 3d seems hard as balls. Also i cant get that point either. I mean people want realism but this isnt it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 13, 2012)

Recel said:


> What I don't get is why OP saying it's drawn, when it's 3D? I don't see the problem in working in 3D. As someone who worked for a while in it, I can say it takes just as much effort to make something good in 3D as with a pencil* (if you exclude downloadable models, and you do everything your self, like you should).*
> So why bother wanting people to view it as drawn?
> 
> Really someone help me out, I just don't understand what's the possible gain or point.



I put the part that answers your question in bold.


----------



## Thaily (Dec 13, 2012)

Definitely 3D, the construction lines on your "sketch" are obviously fake and added to a trace of the 3D model: http://www.kotzbloggen.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/sketch_by_QozbroQqn.jpg
There is a huge gap between the anatomy shown in the character sheet and the lacking knowledge you demonstrate in the supposed sketch/ink.
If you do 3D poser stuff, do 3D poser stuff. If you want to draw, draw. Don't do 3D poser stuff and then tell people you drew it because you think you'll get more asspats.
People who actually draw can tell you're lying, and that just hurts your credibility.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

I did not even see the "sketch" until now. That's pretty hilarious.

Poser is definitely the word for this thread.


----------



## Recel (Dec 13, 2012)

dinosaurdammit said:


> i dont get it myself- 3d seems hard as balls. Also i cant get that point either. I mean people want realism but this isnt it.


It's actually not as hard as people think it is. It just takes longer generally.  Tho you still need to know how to draw (to some extent) for the  textures, and shapes.



Arshes Nei said:


> I put the part that answers your question in bold.



Yeah, but even if it's downloaded, why bother saying it's drawn when you can clearly see it isn't? It's just stupid. And if you would put tons of effort to make it look drawn than I couldn't care if it's drawn or 3D, but with something so visibly 3D? What was he thinking?
And it's not like a 3D picture looks like a well drawn picture anyway. Maybe anatomically it could be, but other wise, it looks bad unless you paint the textures your self, in which case you can already draw enough good, so you wouldn't bother with making it look like a good drawn picture in the first place?
Again, what was he thinking?!


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Don't overthink it Recel, its the internet.


----------



## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

After reading the other comments, I decdided to try to recreate that head shape.  I stand corrected: It does appear to be DAZ Genesis or perhaps Victoria 4, with the Creature Creator and Morphs++ packages.  So I would guess DAZ Studio, not Poser, but still painted over 3D.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Fenric said:


> After reading the other comments, I decdided to try to recreate that head shape.  I stand corrected: It does appear to be DAZ Genesis or perhaps Victoria 4, with the Creature Creator and Morphs++ packages.  So I would guess DAZ Studio, not Poser, but still painted over 3D.



Yeah, I just call it Poser art I guess because I like the word and Poser came first if I'm not mistaken... 
I think the right catchall term might just be pre-rigs or polymesh.


----------



## Thaily (Dec 13, 2012)

DAZ is Poser, they just repackaged it.
But Poser is a more suitable name by far.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Aaah, a polymesh by any other name is just as kak.


----------



## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Yeah, I just call it Poser art I guess because I like the word and Poser came first if I'm not mistaken...
> I think the right catchall term might just be pre-rigs or polymesh.



Poser is a bit older, yes.  It's come a long way, though, and you'd have to work to make lighting that bad in the more recent versions.

Nothing will save floodfill textures, though.


----------



## Corto (Dec 13, 2012)

There is literally no way that ain't a 3D model.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Fenric said:


> Poser is a bit older, yes.  It's come a long way, though, and you'd have to work to make lighting that bad in the more recent versions.
> 
> Nothing will save floodfill textures, though.



Yeah no offense directed at you of course. I'm just wholly ignorant with those programs.
You obviously know your way around them.


----------



## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm a kak-vendor.  

I'm not offended - people make some truly horrendous pictures hoping that the software will make up for their lack of knowledge.  I really just didn't think anyone would come to a forum like this and pretend that a paint-over was somehow hand drawn.  (And I'm going to downgrade my assessment of the lighting from "bad" to "truly horrible")


----------



## Ikrit (Dec 13, 2012)

i don't understand

is doing 3D art like some taboo thing for ya'll?

3D modeling is no easy feat


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Ikrit said:


> i don't understand
> 
> is doing 3D art like some taboo thing for ya'll?
> 
> 3D modeling is no easy feat



You are right Ikrit you unfortunately don't understand.

The OP claimed they had drawn that piece from scratch, that is, determined the light and shadow themselves, rendered the flesh with digital paintbrushes etc.
Its just a pre-made model that has been painted over. Such models are churned out for free or can be bought for a couple of bucks.  Did you read the whole thread?


----------



## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

I hope not   Actually, people have responded fairly well to my gallery, I think.  Just need to convince Dragoneer that banning commercial base models isn't really fair and isn't going to help - you'll still be stuck with Starfox and Furette, you just won't have anything better to look at.

But I have never pretended my 3D art is by hand, which is the problem here.


----------



## Kiha (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm sorry (actually, I'm not sorry), but you're absolutely faking.

http://www.kotzbloggen.de/2012/10/millys-refsheet-wip/

This "WIP" step-by-step thing you've posted is an absolute joke. How is it that you understand how light falls over something as complex as a female body, but can't figure out at all how it works on curved horns or on hair? Everything goes from sketch, to inked, to empty pink space, to fully shaded definition with no apparent in-between at all.

Especially if you've only been drawing for two years, there isn't an artist in the world who can go from this hot mess to uncanny valley in the span of two months by hand.

Just save everyone else the trouble and admit that you're working with 3D models. :/


----------



## Recel (Dec 13, 2012)

I wonder if OP will ever return to our sweet, loving, advice filled embrace.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 13, 2012)

Recel said:


> I wonder if OP will ever return to our sweet, loving, advice filled embrace.


Pffffffffft! lol. If he does I hope he will have learned something from all this. Maybe "Don't be coy about what you have or haven't done."


----------



## Armaetus (Dec 13, 2012)

That's definitely some sort of 3D nonsense there, I won't buy it unless I see some sketches of the postures used.


----------



## Teal (Dec 13, 2012)

3D and the hair looks horrible.


----------



## Smelge (Dec 13, 2012)

That canine cave one, there is absolutely no way in hell that thing isn't 3d, because whoever made it left those dumb ridges as well. The ones where you can't smooth out bits thats been fucked up. Just look at the fingers. There's no ripples of flesh there, so why have they been "drawn" on? Because it's a fucking 3d model, thats why.


----------



## Ricky (Dec 13, 2012)

Why are there 39 guests in this thread?

Lol, I never understand some things about this place...


----------



## AshleyAshes (Dec 13, 2012)

Ricky said:


> Why are there 39 guests in this thread?
> 
> Lol, I never understand some things about this place...



*whistles innocently*


----------



## Machine (Dec 13, 2012)

That "tutorial" is the most shameful thing I've seen all day.

I'll answer your question and just say it: yeah. You're faking. And no one's going to buy it.


----------



## Zerig (Dec 13, 2012)

Please come back OP.

It's no fun unless you struggle in vain to defend yourself.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 13, 2012)

Ricky said:


> Why are there 39 guests in this thread?
> 
> Lol, I never understand some things about this place...



Not that hard to figure out, passed this thread along to threads or posted on lulz/drama sites.


----------



## Toshabi (Dec 13, 2012)

Pro Tip: Making a thread asking people if you're a phony artist or not is a clear sign that you are indeed a phony artist.




OP is fake and gay.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Any chance this is an elaborate troll? Trolls have so much more time and patience on their hands compared to a few years ago.
All we did back then was rush the forums and drop a couple of strategic FUK U's and 50 lemonparty posts.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 13, 2012)

I wouldn't be surprised if there were increased TTs on this person's gallery now 

One of the things that puzzled me was some of the info that one would "think" matters but makes no sense.

The extreme amount of layers. 118? Why??? 
500 dpi - uhh for what reason?


----------



## Conker (Dec 13, 2012)

That's at your FA account and not DA. I don't have an FA account so I can't view it.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

The more I look at this, the more I'm convinced its a troll. At least, I really hope it is, for humanities sake.


----------



## Kiha (Dec 13, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> One of the things that puzzled me was some of the info that one would "think" matters but makes no sense.
> 
> The extreme amount of layers. 118? Why???
> 500 dpi - uhh for what reason?



Because it makes them sound more "pro" than they really are in an attempt to be taken more seriously. After all, no amateur who scribbles over 3D models would use so many layers, so they must legitimately be doing all of that detailed work by hand!

Or something. Idk, I'm still trying to figure out this guy's thought process on the matter. It's all just fucking perplexing.


----------



## Toshabi (Dec 13, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if there were increased TTs on this person's gallery now
> 
> One of the things that puzzled me was some of the info that one would "think" matters but makes no sense.
> 
> ...




THE

MORE

LAYERS

I

ADD

THE

MORE

PRO

MY

PICTURES

LOOOK.


SEE THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!??!?!


----------



## Aden (Dec 13, 2012)

OP can always do a livestream for all to see to prove his/her innocence c:
not even coloring, just some sketches based on pose prompts


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 13, 2012)

Over 90000 hours in MS paint yo!


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 13, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Over 90000 hours in MS paint yo!



With a mouse. 

Either that or the tablet their folks/long suffering partner bought them and that cracked copy of photoshop they downloaded which is now causing their PC to reset every 20 minutes.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Dec 13, 2012)

OP might have screwed up their chances of ever being successful by posting in this forum.

LOL


----------



## Deo (Dec 13, 2012)

Is he coloring over the models or creating skins for them (I don't know enough about 3D to really know the difference). 

Either way it's stupid to use 3D models if you want to be known as someone who draws/digitally paints. Model making is an art too, but stealing models to paint into uncanny valley is not. It's sort of like those idiots who trace porn and then draw ears and tails on it and say "look at my original furry art!!!"


----------



## Batty Krueger (Dec 13, 2012)

Deo said:


> Is he coloring over the models or creating skins for them (I don't know enough about 3D to really know the difference).
> 
> Either way it's stupid to use 3D models if you want to be known as someone who draws/digitally paints. Model making is an art too, but stealing models to paint into uncanny valley is not. It's sort of like those idiots who trace porn and then draw ears and tails on it and say "look at my original furry art!!!"


Adding to the fact it's so painfully obvious what they did


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 13, 2012)

http://www.kotzbloggen.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/facefront_2_by_QozbroQqn.jpg <------ you can see how someone's sloppy copy and paste job ended up. On the viewer's right is the obvious shoulder texture seam, but you can also see some white seams where the fingers are resting on that side because the placement is off. 

Although DD already posted this picture about the horns, what cracks me up more is that there are no eyelids. http://www.kotzbloggen.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/facefront_5_by_QozbroQqn.jpg

Also a lot of artists don't just pick random body parts and render them like that. Though newer or intermediate artists have a tendency to render in a whole face. 

But let's look at this one with the youtube videos.

"Details:
118 Layers
1920x1740
500 dpi
around 15h worktime"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rE0enM9Zpuw#!
30 minutes on doing photoshop tricks on a damn eye. Couldn't even paint in the shape of an eye and tried several different selections. BTW if it wasn't obvious in the video there's another monitor in use, where you're probably not seeing some other stuff... 32:07 - "Ok now I know what the problem is..." that you've made this video more work than what it really was? You can't seriously draw in some eyes?

That a smaller document you wouldn't get this effect? Are you kidding me? LOL. 

(NSFW) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rE0enM9Zpuw#! this one is bizarre for the lines of the breasts.


----------



## Zenia (Dec 13, 2012)

My favorite part of the closeup of her face... is that she has permanent duckface. XD


----------



## Taralack (Dec 13, 2012)

That face has some serious uncanny valley going on. Makes me cringe just glancing at it.


----------



## Fenric (Dec 13, 2012)

Deo said:


> Is he coloring over the models or creating skins for them (I don't know enough about 3D to really know the difference).
> 
> Either way it's stupid to use 3D models if you want to be known as someone who draws/digitally paints. Model making is an art too, but stealing models to paint into uncanny valley is not. It's sort of like those idiots who trace porn and then draw ears and tails on it and say "look at my original furry art!!!"



He painted over a raytrace picture.  (One rendered with a REALLY bad light set and floodfill texture), brought into PS, edge detected, filled with light purple, multiply layer of a desaturated version of the original render to get Ambient Occlusion (or used a multi-pass tool to get an AO layer, but if he was that sophisticated I'd expect a better base render), painted in some details where the model/morph didn't match what they wanted.

Now, painting onto a rendered 3D base is a well respected technique: pretty much ALL of my 3D stuff has painted details - you're an idiot if you try to do everything in the composition tool.  You touch up mesh distortions, you paint on hair details and skin details, you touch up spots where the raytracer was overly pedantic with its lighting calculations.  If you aren't doing animation, you do half your work in Photoshop (unless you are one of the god level folks from CGSociety)... but you NEVER pretend that you somehow "painted" the whole thing.


----------



## Corto (Dec 13, 2012)

Ahkmill said:


> OP might have screwed up their chances of ever being successful by posting in this forum.
> 
> LOL



"FAF: We destroy careers and dreams"


----------



## Inciatus (Dec 13, 2012)

Corto said:


> "FAF: We destroy careers and dreams"



Like anyone on FAF has careers or dreams. :V

I do agree that there is an odd dent in the forehead.


----------



## Armaetus (Dec 13, 2012)

I can safely assume OP's reputation has been destroyed because we called him/her out on using a 3D model as a base and lying about it after being proven wrong multiple times.


----------



## Kangamutt (Dec 13, 2012)

It does look to be a 3D model. The horns and hair lack any cohesiveness with the model entirely. The figure has a lot of very sharp defined shapes, even in the eyes, while the hair and horns have very soft edges, rely on actual lines rather than implied lines for their definition apart from the figure. As well, the lighting looks to be from the pseudo-lighting system used in the modeling camera in programs such as Maya, there the light points from where you're viewing the model; there is no fixed light from just one consistent point. As far as I'm concerned, it is a 3D model. Is it wrong to use them? No, provided you made it yourself. Do I believe you made them? Judging from the rest of your work, I have my doubts.


----------



## Lucy Bones (Dec 14, 2012)

The mental image of the OP curled up in a corner sobbing about having been called out as a phony pleases and arouses me.


----------



## Dreaming (Dec 14, 2012)

I can see why it would appear to be a 3D model... the hair doesn't match up, almost as if another program was used to add it in.


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 14, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> [...]
> Its 22:15 in germany and I am awake since 6:00. Was in the university for 10 hours. So yes I am a tired.
> 
> And I go to bed now.


Sorry for being a human... -.-

So after reading 4 pages of bashing, I decided to delete the refsheet on FA, dA and my blog. I do not respond to every comment here. Thought about trying to prove you all wrong but after a few comments here I think that is not possible. I always could use a trillion additional monitors to hide something from you and I always could use photoshop "tricks" to manipulate afterwards. And I used photoshop for drawing my pictures. And yes in the cave picture that is an filter, called photofilter with a yellowish setting if I'm remembering right. Never thought that would be a problem. I also used reference pictures of course like everyone at the beginning. Maybe you watched some tutorials or red books or whatever. All I know about drawing comes from my 3 years arts course at my A-Level (I visited arts 3 times a week a 90 minutes.). We had figure- and people drawing for a year and I begun with a stickfigure. After the year, and a few tries, I was able to draw Michelangelos David. Of course not out of my mind. I drew him again and again. At the beginning the picture under my sheet. Then after a few tries, with the picture near my sheet. After a while I had to watch only a few times on David. In the examination I decided to draw him and it was, of course not perfect but good enough to get a solid B. So if I claim I had drewn Davin on my own than that is wrong because I learned it before? Then I drew none of my pictures in my gallery and you are right. I always used references for my drawings. Didn't know I have to mention that every time.

Maybe it's best to take a break for a while and make a comeback next year...


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 14, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> Sorry for being a human... -.-
> 
> So after reading 4 pages of bashing, I decided to delete the refsheet on FA, dA and my blog. I do not respond to every comment here. Thought about trying to prove you all wrong but after a few comments here I think that is not possible. I always could use a trillion additional monitors to hide something from you and I always could use photoshop "tricks" to manipulate afterwards. And I used photoshop for drawing my pictures. And yes in the cave picture that is an filter, called photofilter with a yellowish setting if I'm remembering right. Never thought that would be a problem. I also used reference pictures of course like everyone at the beginning. Maybe you watched some tutorials or red books or whatever. All I know about drawing comes from my 3 years arts course at my A-Level (I visited arts 3 times a week a 90 minutes.). We had figure- and people drawing for a year and I begun with a stickfigure. After the year, and a few tries, I was able to draw Michelangelos David. Of course not out of my mind. I drew him again and again. At the beginning the picture under my sheet. Then after a few tries, with the picture near my sheet. After a while I had to watch only a few times on David. In the examination I decided to draw him and it was, of course not perfect but good enough to get a solid B. So if I claim I had drewn Davin on my own than that is wrong because I learned it before? Then I drew none of my pictures in my gallery and you are right. I always used references for my drawings. Didn't know I have to mention that every time.
> 
> Maybe it's best to take a break for a while and make a comeback next year...



[yt]FhXz60f0HLU[/yt]


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 14, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> Sorry for being a human... -.-
> 
> So after reading 4 pages of bashing, I decided to delete the refsheet on FA, dA and my blog. I do not respond to every comment here. Thought about trying to prove you all wrong but after a few comments here I think that is not possible. I always could use a trillion additional monitors to hide something from you and I always could use photoshop "tricks" to manipulate afterwards. And I used photoshop for drawing my pictures. And yes in the cave picture that is an filter, called photofilter with a yellowish setting if I'm remembering right. Never thought that would be a problem. I also used reference pictures of course like everyone at the beginning. Maybe you watched some tutorials or red books or whatever. *All I know about drawing comes from my 3 years arts course at my A-Level (I visited arts 3 times a week a 90 minutes.). We had figure- and people drawing for a year and I begun with a stickfigure.* After the year, and a few tries, I was able to draw Michelangelos David. Of course not out of my mind. I drew him again and again. At the beginning the picture under my sheet. Then after a few tries, with the picture near my sheet. After a while I had to watch only a few times on David. In the examination I decided to draw him and it was, of course not perfect but good enough to get a solid B. So if I claim I had drewn Davin on my own than that is wrong because I learned it before? Then I drew none of my pictures in my gallery and you are right. I always used references for my drawings. Didn't know I have to mention that every time.
> 
> Maybe it's best to take a break for a while and make a comeback next year...



3 years of 4h per week, that must've been so hard for you!
Some people here have been drawing for well over 3 years and for well over 4h per week.

We can tell when something is fishy and when someone is lying.
You just thought that we wouldn't be able to: that's your first mistake.

Now you're backtracking saying you have been drawing for three years already?
Again: not impressive. And you clearly need more practice if all you can do is paint badly over 3D models.

Also: using reference is not the same as tracing.
Let me repeat that for you.
*Using. Reference. IS NOT. The. Same. As. Tracing.*

If you use reference, you have the picture at your side to look at how certain parts of the anatomy work. If you trace, you have a layer on top of the picture and just go over some lines (badly) without knowing how the anatomy and underlying structure works. Guess which one applies to your work.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 14, 2012)

Wow, y'all really did shoo him off. That was something special. I've never seen anything quite like that debacle. 

Let this be a lesson to other new people: Don't BS on herr. You will be called on it.


----------



## QozbroQqn (Dec 14, 2012)

Ansitru said:


> 3 years of 4h per week, that must've been so hard for you!
> Some people here have been drawing for well over 3 years and for well over 4h per week.
> 
> Now you're backtracking saying you have been drawing for three years already?
> Again: not impressive. And you clearly need more practice if all you can do is paint badly over 3D models.



Did I say I did not drew more? Did I complain? Did I say it was hard for me? I also don't wanted to impress. Maybe you should not read things I do not write.
Btw I am out of my a-level for 2 years now. According to your interpretation of I was 3 years drawing instead of two, then I must draw 5 years already...

O sorry I forgot, I drew a sun and a ocean with a little palmtree once I was 3. Means I already draw for over 20 years already. That could be longer than you live... Hope you get the sarcasm.



Ansitru said:


> You just thought that we wouldn't be able to: that's your first mistake.


You have no idea what my intention was.  Don't think I'm stupid. tbh I dont care

cya all sometime. Was my last post.


----------



## Bittertooth (Dec 14, 2012)

I was pretty convinced that you were doing the shading yourself after seeing you grind away with the airbrushes in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h3sPm5kkv8 and watching you spend like 30 minutes drawing a single nipple.  I can imagine you being really diligent about the veins too.

I can also see where the textures come from, you overlayed them and that explains why the water droplets in http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9071884/ don't follow the curvature of the body.

And some of the backgrounds actually did come from CGI, as you said.

So about the anatomy/pose.  You used a reference for that, right?  You seemed to freehand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYVT2dJ4SEQ without a sweat.

Maybe you also used a 3d model reference to figure out how to shade the figure?  That would explain why the body would look better than the hair and horns, but it wouldn't explain why all your pictures used front-on pillowshading, or pictures like this which have even worse shading.  I'm assuming the reason the hair, fur, horns, and anything that isn't skin look bad is because you haven't learned to render anything that isn't flesh with anything that isn't the airbrush.

I can see how you managed to throw everyone a curveball with your strange set of artistic abilities.  On one hand you make poor rendering decisions (you pillowshaded) while on the other hand, your extreme diligence makes the details and nuances come off as computer generated (you pillowshaded for 10 hours on 100 layers while 1000x zoomed in).  Good one.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 14, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> Was my last post.



Promise?


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 14, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> Did I say I did not drew more? Did I complain? Did I say it was hard for me? I also don't wanted to impress. Maybe you should not read things I do not write.
> Btw I am out of my a-level for 2 years now. According to your interpretation of I was 3 years drawing instead of two, then I must draw 5 years already...
> 
> O sorry I forgot, I drew a sun and a ocean with a little palmtree once I was 3. Means I already draw for over 20 years already. That could be longer than you live... Hope you get the sarcasm.
> ...



You are older than 20 and still draw like *that*?
I can tell you must practice a lot. Really. 

I mean, your art looks so good! :V


And why would you post here stating you drew something that is clearly 3D if not because of the assumption that we would pat your ass and tell you you are the next furry Da Vinci?
Hell, I may be younger than you are, but at least I'm not as thick.


----------



## Fenric (Dec 14, 2012)

If you really did do all that work by hand, then I am sorry for my part in the bashing.  But to demonstrate several points folks here have made all at once, this took 25 minutes: http://www.fenric.com/images/example.jpg

If you really spent quite that many hours to use the path tool and airbrush, you need to rethink your technique: that is an awful lot of effort to reproduce what looks like poorly done CGI.


----------



## Toshabi (Dec 14, 2012)

QozbroQqn said:


> Did I say I did not drew more? Did I complain? Did I say it was hard for me? I also don't wanted to impress. Maybe you should not read things I do not write.
> Btw I am out of my a-level for 2 years now. According to your interpretation of I was 3 years drawing instead of two, then I must draw 5 years already...
> 
> O sorry I forgot, I drew a sun and a ocean with a little palmtree once I was 3. Means I already draw for over 20 years already. That could be longer than you live... Hope you get the sarcasm.
> ...




And shut your mouth on the way out.


----------



## Taralack (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't understand how you can spend so long and use so many layers on such utter crap. I'm sorry but that's just what it is. Did you even study how real lighting works?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 14, 2012)

Ansitru said:


> You are older than 20 and still draw like *that*?
> I can tell you must practice a lot. Really.
> 
> I mean, your art looks so good! :V
> ...



Well age has nothing to do with it. If someone draws something like cartoonish things like Peanuts and is still 20 and don't practice on foundations, they've just learned to do symbolism of Peanuts 

Just that even if you practice a lot it has nothing to do with improvement if you don't practice on the right things.

Also, NSFW - http://www.furaffinity.net/full/9071884/

Areolas and testicles are not made of street pavement. Stop using that texture it looks terrible.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 14, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Also, NSFW - http://www.furaffinity.net/full/9071884/



I love the title. So appropriate.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 14, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well age has nothing to do with it. If someone draws something like cartoonish things like Peanuts and is still 20 and don't practice on foundations, they've just learned to do symbolism of Peanuts
> 
> Just that even if you practice a lot it has nothing to do with improvement if you don't practice on the right things.
> 
> ...



To clarify the age-remark: I meant it as "You're older than 20 and still haven't thought of practicing anatomy?"
My apologies if my initial remark was unclear.


----------



## Smelge (Dec 14, 2012)

Bittertooth said:


> I was pretty convinced that you were doing the shading yourself after seeing you grind away with the airbrushes in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h3sPm5kkv8 and watching you spend like 30 minutes drawing a single nipple.  I can imagine you being really diligent about the veins too.
> 
> I can also see where the textures come from, you overlayed them and that explains why the water droplets in http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9071884/ don't follow the curvature of the body.
> 
> ...



I don't even know where to start with this one. Yes, they could have done this, but it's a 3d model. It has badly smoothed areas on it where the original crreator fucked up.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 15, 2012)

Thank you Bittertooth for referring me to his youtube channel.  Very interesting.  A curve-ball indeed.

I'd really like to see the image that we're all talking about, since QozbroQqn (What a name!) appears to have removed it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 15, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Thank you Bittertooth for referring me to his youtube channel.  Very interesting.  A curve-ball indeed.
> 
> I'd really like to see the image that we're all talking about, since QozbroQqn (What a name!) appears to have removed it.



The OP has openly stated to visit watch his videos, I'm not sure where you got the Bittertooth shared them since OP had linked his blog to reach them already? Even I pointed specific videos prior to Bittertooth's post.

If you go through the thread you'll find WIP of the finished work. 

But again, it helps if you go through the thread and read it. It gets aggravating when people get too lazy to read a forum of text, and want the answers handed out to them.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Dec 15, 2012)

So, can we agree at this point that he _is_ faking?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 15, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> So, can we agree at this point that he _is_ faking?



I say there are shenanigans going on, basically heavily referencing the source material and using photoshop tricks on recreating the model and tracing over the original model/body since the anatomy seems to be based from the model. As someone else mentioned Raytracing - which you get that when you see *how* the "sketches" were produced. Basically, when I watched the videos it was more time on selections and piecing together parts, that could have been saved by simply drawing/painting.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 15, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Thank you Bittertooth for referring me to his youtube channel.  Very interesting.  A curve-ball indeed.
> 
> I'd really like to see the image that we're all talking about, since QozbroQqn (What a name!) appears to have removed it.



Here you go. (NSFW)
DeviantART-image links are handy things.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 15, 2012)

Ansitru said:


> Here you go. (NSFW)
> DeviantART-image links are handy things.



Thanks Ansitru.

I say it's not faked.  I see a few errors that wouldn't be there if it were a model (her butt-cheeks, for one, are highly asymmetrical).

I think he has developed a formula for shading his characters that results in a very consistent, plasticy-looking surface.


----------



## benignBiotic (Dec 15, 2012)

Toraneko said:


> I don't understand how you can spend so long and use so many layers on such utter crap. I'm sorry but that's just what it is. Did you even study how real lighting works?


She looks horrifying -_- Simple as that.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 15, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I say it's not faked.  I see a few errors that wouldn't be there if it were a model (her butt-cheeks, for one, are highly asymmetrical).



Uhh, you can get Contrapposto in Poser models.


----------



## AshleyAshes (Dec 15, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I say it's not faked.  I see a few errors that wouldn't be there if it were a model (her butt-cheeks, for one, are highly asymmetrical).



Uhh, that's cause her hips are at different levels due to the positioning of her ankles and legs...  That's how the human body actually works.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm familiar with contrapposto, but that doesn't look like proper contrapposto to me, that looks like a perspective error.

EDIT: of course he's using reference.  I don't consider that "fake."  In some of his videos, you can clearly see he's freehanding.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I'm familiar with contrapposto, but that doesn't look like proper contrapposto to me, that looks like a perspective error.
> 
> EDIT: of course he's using reference.  I don't consider that "fake."  In some of his videos, you can clearly see he's freehanding.



Where has anyone said that using reference is faking it? There is a right way to reference and a wrong way. 

There is no question that his latest work was shoddy poser models that he claimed to have created from scratch. The fact that he up
and removed his "art" is further evidence that he cannot even stand by his story when called out on it. 

The quality of the art in those videos falls very short of the model he uploaded. Even with the model itself being tacky pillow lit garbage.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I'm familiar with contrapposto, but that doesn't look like proper contrapposto to me, that looks like a perspective error.
> 
> EDIT: of course he's using reference.  I don't consider that "fake."  In some of his videos, you can clearly see he's freehanding.



Have you even looked at his "sketches" and "line art"? They show zero understanding of how the human body, skeleton and muscles work.
The lines look like a shoddy trace-job because  guess what: they are.

And it's perfectly possible to have 3D models that look off, because even 3D modelers aren't perfect. 
Someone here even matched up models to the OPs drawings, which you would know if you'd have read the thread entirely.
So I for one am not buying the "I drew this myself"-shtick.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

I cannot believe we are starting this debate again from scratch. I think this turd has gone full circle.
With the OP determined not to come back for a while, its probably best just to close it.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> I cannot believe we are starting this debate again from scratch. I think this turd has gone full circle.
> With the OP determined not to come back for a while, *its probably best just to close it.*



Especially since people don't seem to be arsed to read it entirely and look at the presented evidence.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Yeah I get the points being made but I think it needs to be clarified, because even people are getting it a bit confused. I have seen people posting sites to get models, but I don't think someone actually matched up the model themselves? 

One person who is a 3D Modeler showed how it could be done in 30 minutes or so but that doesn't appear to be the same model. At least he remembered to put in some damn eyelids instead creating eyes that look more like Spider vien lines instead of eyelashes. 

As that Modeler said: What is going on is that they're traced over from the 3D model that was used then painted over. This is a valid process, but the suspicion comes from 2 things. Whether the OP made those models and when is "reference" just blind copying.

OP was heavily relying on the reference to recreate it, which accounts for the bad black lighting. This is often present in models because of the "studio lighting" used that there is no attention being paid to other kinds of lighting, like rim lighting, reflective light, etc..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/The Project/red-spheres.jpg

http://conceptart.org/forums/showth...ctivities-Learning-Teaching-and-Toast-!/page3

Where you can see the above, someone trying to work out and pay attention to how other objects would react.

Both of those points is where the problem lies. As I said I watched the video. I see the OP actually painting and using masks. I don't think they were "bait and switch" so much as I believe OP went through the painstaking (and pointless) process of repainting the figures (but using a trace of them to begin with) to recreate the model. Parts that couldn't translate like the hair was done by hand. 

Honestly the point is lost in art if you're going to just be a bad xerox machine. Sure there are people who can create photorealistic images, but what's the point of being a camera when a camera exists? That's where you need to stop relying heavily on reference/using it to the point of blind copying and learning to translate things better with your own eye. 

Yes I know the OP is gone but I didn't want to close the thread yet on more confusion.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> The fact that he up and removed his "art" is  further evidence that he cannot even stand by his story when called out  on it.



This quote alone makes me want to stand up for him, even if he _is_  lying.  Has the possibility not dawned on you that perhaps he's  actually extremely insecure?  He's obviously somewhere on the autism  spectrum, no doubt about that, so it wouldn't surprise me.



Arshes Nei said:


> I see the OP actually painting and using  masks. I don't think they were "bait and switch" so much as I believe OP  went through the painstaking (and pointless) process of repainting the  figures (but using a trace of them to begin with) to recreate the model.  Parts that couldn't translate like the hair was done by hand.



In this video, you can see he's capable of freehanding.  Of course, that doesn't prove he did the same in the case of the character sheet.



Arshes Nei said:


> Honestly the point is lost in art if you're  going to just be a bad xerox machine. Sure there are people who can  create photorealistic images, but what's the point of being a camera  when a camera exists? That's where you need to stop relying heavily on  reference/using it to the point of blind copying and learning to  translate things better with your own eye.



Photorealism  is, in my opinion, an excellent way to learn how to render.  Most  artist's move beyond it at some point.  I  look forward to seeing how his ability matures.

EDIT:
I think I'm getting so defensive because his work and this thread seem almost _precisely_ like something I would have created half-a-dozen years ago, and I know _precisely_ how it feels to be on the receiving end of this sort of negativity.  Feels like shit.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> He's obviously somewhere on the autism  spectrum, no doubt about that, so it wouldn't surprise me.



How did you come to that conclusion exactly?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> This quote alone makes me want to stand up for him, even if he _is_  lying.  Has the possibility not dawned on you that perhaps he's  actually extremely insecure?  He's obviously somewhere on the autism  spectrum, no doubt about that, so it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> Photorealism  is, in my opinion, an excellent way to learn how to render.  Most  artist's move beyond it at some point.  I  look forward to seeing how his ability matures.



So you're gonna play doctor and possibly insult a user's intelligence by claiming that person has a disorder? That's fucked up. I'm sorry. Even if the OP hasn't returned, don't do shit like that :/

And no, photorealism is a TERRIBLE way to learn. Learning from life is a good way to learn. Don't confuse the two.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> This quote alone makes me want to stand up for him, even if he _is_  lying.  Has the possibility not dawned on you that perhaps he's  actually extremely insecure?  He's obviously somewhere on the autism  spectrum, no doubt about that



No. 
Don't. You. Even. *Dare*.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> How did you come to that conclusion exactly?



By listening to him in his videos.  He spent incredible amounts of time obsessing over small details and essentially talking to himself.  He doesn't know what is overdoing it, when to edit, when to time-lapse, and he has little understanding of how people will interpret his comments or actually go about watching his videos.  I've met enough people with asperger's that all of that stands out to me.



Arshes Nei said:


> So you're gonna play doctor and possibly insult a user's intelligence by claiming that person has a disorder? That's fucked up. I'm sorry. Even if the OP hasn't returned, don't do shit like that :/



Sorry.  I'm on the autism spectrum myself, so I don't consider it an insult.  It hadn't dawned on me that people might interpret it like that.  I don't think considering someone autistic is an insult to their intelligence.  Sometimes it's simply accurate.



Arshes Nei said:


> And no, photorealism is a TERRIBLE way to learn. Learning from life is a good way to learn. Don't confuse the two.



Photorealism is just painting from life, only with more patience.

I think I'm too tired to be posting on this forum right now.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

I love this forum. Everyone here pretends to be something. Wolves, dragons, doctors...


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> By listening to him in his videos.  He spent incredible amounts of time obsessing over small details and essentially talking to himself.  He doesn't know what is overdoing it, when to edit, when to time-lapse, and he has little understanding of how people will interpret his comments or actually go about watching his videos.  I've met enough people with asperger's that all of that stands out to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't do any of that though. 
Sincerely,

Someone else who was _diagnosed_ withAspergersand hates self-diagnosis with a passion.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> By listening to him in his videos.  He spent incredible amounts of time obsessing over small details and essentially talking to himself.  He doesn't know what is overdoing it, when to edit, when to time-lapse, and he has little understanding of how people will interpret his comments or actually go about watching his videos.  I've met enough people with asperger's that all of that stands out to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah you are really not getting it. So fucking what if he's mumbling. Guess what, OTHER ARTISTS DO THIS TOO when doing streams or online tutorials. Given the fact that English is not his first language there's that too. It has nothing to do with autism. When English or another language is not your first language you tend to "translate" 3 times in a sense... This happens when I have to speak to family which is why reading and writing a language is easier than speaking it. Well forgot, listening to it too, I understand what my family says to and I have a tendency to reply back in English. Jesus....

And photorealism is not panting from life. A photo is not the same thing!


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Ansitru said:


> I don't do any of that though.
> Sincerely,
> 
> Someone else who was _diagnosed_ withAspergersand hates self-diagnosis with a passion.



I am diagnosed.

EDIT: (And you _do_ do some of those things.  I've seen you do them on this very forum.  Obviously not the talking-to-yourself bit.  I wouldn't know about that.)


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I am diagnosed.


And that doesn't make you a psychologist or a psychiatrist. 
A degree does, so kindly stfu and refrain from diagnosing people based on "_hurrdurr exshpereens_". And that's as nicely as I can put it right now.

Edit: And now you *dare *diagnose me? Get. Out.
You barely know me and from what I post in a forum you couldn't even begin to think of saying what makes me "me". So don't you even *dare*.


----------



## AshleyAshes (Dec 16, 2012)

Why are we trying to use his how to video, which covered a piece of art with all sorts of anatomy issues and no one thinks is derived from a 3D Render, to determine if an entirely different piece of art that doesn't feature those anatomy issues is a 3D render or not...?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Dude, the stuff you're saying is part of autism like language is also part of when people have English as a second language. Don't confuse language barriers for autism. My God. D:


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Dude, the stuff you're saying is part of autism like language is also part of when people have English as a second language. Don't confuse language barriers for autism. My God. D:



Hey, seeing as how I've been diagnosed, this grants me the right to diagnose others.
So Arshes, by the power vested in me by being born this way, I now say you are autistic too for not understanding this logic.

Go forth and diagnose! :V


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Yeah you are really not getting it. So fucking what if he's mumbling. Guess what, OTHER ARTISTS DO THIS TOO



Look at ALL of the things I mentioned, especially the last ones: "He doesn't know what is overdoing it, when to edit, when to time-lapse,  and he has little understanding of how people will interpret his  comments or actually go about watching his videos."

He uploaded a five-hour video to youtube.  That right there is stereotypical asperger's "hyperfocus."

Ansitru, I know you're very touchy about asperger's and autism, but I don't think I should have to hold back an opinion that could be constructive and relevant.  I know I'm not a psychologist, but I can still hold that opinion.  If I were a psychologist, I obviously would have mentioned it in my post.  I am not being dishonest or misrepresenting my relationship with the subject.

EDIT: and stop being so damn dramatic.  You're judging me by my forum posts with just as much fervor as I'm judging you by yours, y'darn hypocrite.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Ansitru, I know you're very touchy about asperger's and autism, but I don't think I should have to hold back an opinion that could be constructive and relevant.  I know I'm not a psychologist, but I can still hold that opinion.  If I were a psychologist, I obviously would have mentioned it in my post.  I am not being dishonest or misrepresenting my relationship with the subject.



I really think you need to stop typing.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Look at ALL of the things I mentioned, especially the last ones: "He doesn't know what is overdoing it, when to edit, when to time-lapse,  and he has little understanding of how people will interpret his  comments or actually go about watching his videos."
> 
> He uploaded a five-hour video to youtube.  That right there is stereotypical asperger's "hyperfocus."
> 
> Ansitru, I know you're very touchy about asperger's and autism, but I don't think I should have to hold back an opinion that could be constructive and relevant.  I know I'm not a psychologist, but I can still hold that opinion.  If I were a psychologist, I obviously would have mentioned it in my post.  I am not being dishonest or misrepresenting my relationship with the subject.



Here is a handy checklist for you to look at should you ever question whether or not you should diagnose. 

Are you a psychologist /psychiatrist?
- YES. Proceed and diagnose. 
- NO. Don't diagnose. 

Gee, I wonder why I'm touchy about people with no degree diagnosing and giving asshats an excuse when they may not even *have* autism.



> EDIT: and stop being so damn dramatic. You're judging me by my forum posts with just as much fervor as I'm judging you by yours, y'darn hypocrite.



Let me repeat what I stated above: you are diagnosing without a degree and proof and are possibly giving an asshat an excuse *to be an asshat. *And I care because I get lumped in with the self-diagnosed asshats who use it as an excuse to be asshats.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Ansitru said:


> Here is a handy checklist for you to look at should you ever question whether or not you should diagnose.
> 
> Are you a psychologist /psychiatrist?
> - YES. Proceed and diagnose.
> ...



So now we aren't allowed to have opinions unless we're state-accredited.  Dandy.

It's his own damn fault if he decides to label himself without seeking a professional diagnosis, not mine.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> It's his own damn fault if he decides to label himself without seeking a professional diagnosis, not mine.



What the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> So now we aren't allowed to have opinions unless we're state-accredited.  Dandy.
> 
> It's his own damn fault if he decides to label himself without seeking a professional diagnosis, not mine.



Let me state this simply so you understand. 
You said you have Aspergers and a such think he has Aspergers. 
For most people, this would be "proof enough" because if an aspie recognizes it, it must be true. 

Do. You. Understand?

Edit: I mean, let's forget about the whole "_Can not read people_"-part of the diagnosis, right? 
Also: dramatic would be a no. Fuming would be a yes.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> He uploaded a five-hour video to youtube.  That right there is stereotypical asperger's "hyperfocus."



So Imagine FX is autistic? WTF?


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?



Ansitru's arguments have pivoted around the idea that there are lots of self-diagnosed aspies, and that by "diagnosing" the-guy-whose-username-contains-multiple-instances-of-the-letter-Q, I have contributed to the problem.

My counterargument is that I have the freedom to express an opinion, that I never claimed to be a professional psychologist, and that he would be solely at fault if he were to label himself without seeking a professional diagnosis.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> So Imagine FX is autistic? WTF?



Dan Dos Santos must be autistic as well. Someone had better tell him.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Ansitru's arguments have pivoted around the idea that there are lots of self-diagnosed aspies, and that by "diagnosing" the-guy-whose-username-contains-multiple-instances-of-the-letter-Q, I have contributed to the problem.
> 
> My counterargument is that I have the freedom to express an opinion, that I never claimed to be a professional psychologist, and that he would be solely at fault if he were to label himself without seeking a professional diagnosis.



For crying. Out. Loud. 
You labelled your OPINION as relevant. Unless you have a degree in the field of mental illnesses, it is just an opinion, barely relevant or true at all.


----------



## Corto (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I am diagnosed.



Man if that's all you need to play pretend as a doctor, then I'm qualified to say you have drug problems, bad eyesight, and a really handsome face.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> My counterargument is that I have the freedom to  express an opinion, that I never claimed to be a professional  psychologist, and that he would be solely at fault if he were to label  himself without seeking a professional diagnosis.



I'd like to express my sincere opinion about some of the posters in this thread. Fortunately I'm not so witless that I would just do something like that.

I guess that means I'm not autistic.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> So Imagine FX is autistic? WTF?



You're seriously comparing an official web publication backed by a team of professional content-providers to a single user with no following or financial incentive?  Can't you see the difference?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> You're seriously comparing an official web publication backed by a team of professional content-providers to a single user with no following or financial incentive?  Can't you see the difference?



There is no difference. Anyone has the ability to upload long youtube videos. If someone wants to post a long youtube video they have the right to. It has nothing to do with finances or autism. Seriously wtf.


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> He uploaded a five-hour video to youtube.  That right there is stereotypical asperger's "hyperfocus."



So doing something for long periods of time equals autism?

By that logic, passionate artists, gamers, readers, film watchers, and other things are autismal as all hell including myself.

Many,  many, many people have personality traits that also happen to be  typical of those of autism, and those people are not autistic. Someone  being focused, passionate, or obsessive does not equal autism. Other things like social awkwardness, muttering to oneself, introversion, or stacking objects because they feel like it doesn't mean anyone is autistic either.

Just because someone has a particular behavioural trait does not make them autistic. It'sfar more complex than that. It's like seeing someone a bit sad one day and labelling them as having some chronic depressive disorder or something.

And don't bring opinions into it either. "It's my opinion that you're autistic" - get the fuck out.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

I'm sure everyone has the CAPABILITY, but most people don't have the MOTIVE.


----------



## Corto (Dec 16, 2012)

And autism is the sole motive to do something for extended periods of time?


Fuck I'm an autist and I had never realized. Though I always suspected a bit.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> I'm sure everyone has the CAPABILITY, but most people don't have the MOTIVE.



"I want to teach tutorials/post progress videos, because I've seen others do it"

Motive enough to me. 

I buy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect this over whatever hell playing doctor nonsense that is being posted right now.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Corto said:


> And autism is the sole motive to do something for extended periods of time?
> 
> 
> Fuck I'm an autist and I had never realized. Though I always suspected a bit.



And people with OCD are now just shit out of luck, since the symptom of obsessive behavior is autistic. Autistic only!!1!1!1 :V


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

No.  Many things add up here.  It's not just one thing, it's a combination.  Obviously I don't know the guy well enough to be _sure_ sure, but I feel about as sure as I can be from what I've observed.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> No.  Many things add up here.  It's not just one thing, it's a combination.  Obviously I don't know the guy well enough to be _sure_ sure, but I feel about as sure as I can be from what I've observed.



An there you go diagnosing again. Cut that shit out.
You know this user from ONE thread in which he barely posted FIVE times. 
Teach me how to mind read, oh master.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> No.  Many things add up here.  It's not just one thing, it's a combination.  Obviously I don't know the guy well enough to be _sure_ sure, but I feel about as sure as I can be from what I've observed.



Mumbling or talking to oneself - which is normal behavior of people not good at broadcasting. Also if you listen he has problems translating things which is fine if English is not your first language

Posting long videos - One can post one if you want, youtube allows this. Lot of artists wanted this feature because they got tired of speed painting videos and sometimes wanted to go into real time. There are other reasons too for youtube but hey they allow it as a content provider.


What happens more and that than has nothing to do with Autism. There are people in love with the idea of being an artist but don't want to take the time to actually be one. So they mimic certain things artists do online, like posting tutorials. There was one girl who changed her website every time her favorite one did. Artists want to be noticed. It's natural, and human. We make art because we're human.


----------



## Enwon (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> No.  Many things add up here.  It's not just one thing, it's a combination.  Obviously I don't know the guy well enough to be _sure_ sure, but I feel about as sure as I can be from what I've observed.


Honestly, you should probably fully concede that you cannot possibly diagnose anybody with autism.  Thing is, around here, it is a major faux pas to diagnose people with disorders.  There's a reason for that, of course- a few symptoms of autism are present in a majority of the population, you can't really read people based on youtube videos and forum posts alone, and a person without a sufficient education in psychology cannot come to anywhere close to a reliable diagnosis of anybody.

I see it all the time, to be honest: People saying something or doing something that is not really in their better judgment, then trying to justify themselves.  There's nothing wrong with admitting that you made a judgment error in saying something.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 16, 2012)

Ansitru said:


> An there you go diagnosing again. Cut that shit out.
> You know this user from ONE thread in which he barely posted FIVE times.
> Teach me how to mind read, oh master.



Actually, I've had contact with him outside this thread via deviantART, and I've watched (portions of) his videos.

Come  on.  We're on the freaking internet here.  We're ALL making judgements  of people we've never actually SEEN or HEARD before.  Information is  scant, but of course we TRY to make observations.  Sometimes we're  wrong, sometimes we're right.  I think there's a basis for my opinion (otherwise I wouldn't be espousing it).   Of COURSE I'm leaving room for error.

Yes, I know you don't like  that I'm expressing this opinion, yes I know why.  Obviously, it's not changing my mind.  Until I see more from from the  guy and see how he chooses to progress, I'll wait.  Only then will I  build on the observations I've made.

Now I'm going to bed, and I'm sure plenty of people will have a snarky reply to that.


----------



## Corto (Dec 16, 2012)

Enwon said:


> Thing is, around here, it is a major faux pas to diagnose people with disorders.



I'd say that's a major faux pas everywhere outside of, like, clinics and psychologist's offices and such. But yeah, "mumbling and posting long videos, this must be autism!" is dumb. "I'm diagnosed, therefore I can tell" is even dumber, because this doesn't give you that ability. It just makes you, you know, a diagnosed person.

EDIT: Because you don't understand the problem here, NO ONE CARES IF YOU GIVE YOUR OPINION ON STUFF. What we find annoying is that you're diagnosing someone as having mental problems because of the most banal reasons imaginable, and when confronted about this, your answer was "I'm diagnosed, so obviously I know what I'm talking about", which is the stupidest bullshit thing ever.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Now I'm going to bed, and I'm sure plenty of people will have a snarky reply to that.



So it's better (possibly) insult someone and self diagnose them as some kind of mental problem than criticize the art and methods he/she used.

Wow. The. Logic.


----------



## Ansitru (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Actually, I've had contact with him outside this thread via deviantART, and I've watched (portions of) his videos.
> 
> Come  on.  We're on the freaking internet here.  We're ALL making judgements  of people we've never actually SEEN or HEARD before.  Information is  scant, but of course we TRY to make observations.  Sometimes we're  wrong, sometimes we're right.  I think there's a basis for my opinion (otherwise I wouldn't be espousing it).   Of COURSE I'm leaving room for error.
> 
> ...



You can form opinions: yes. 
You don't start diagnosing strangers though. 
Fuck, if it is that easy then I am now dubbing myself the autism fairy and I shall bestow the diagnosis on all who I bloody well please to dub autistic. 

Except fuck no, that is not how it works. 
If you so adamantly stand by your "He is autistic because I said so" then I will now be adamantly defending "You are thicker than Paula Deen because I said so" and I have plenty of posts to back me up. It's lovely how it works both ways, no?


----------



## Enwon (Dec 16, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Actually, I've had contact with him outside this thread via deviantART, and I've watched (portions of) his videos.
> 
> Come on. We're on the freaking internet here. We're ALL making judgements of people we've never actually SEEN or HEARD before. Information is scant, but of course we TRY to make observations. Sometimes we're wrong, sometimes we're right. I think there's a basis for my opinion (otherwise I wouldn't be espousing it). Of COURSE I'm leaving room for error.
> 
> ...


There is a difference between saying, "That person has some odd habits" and saying, "That person likely has autism."  Also, portions of videos and DeviantART do not provide enough information to make a diagnosis, even for a professional.  Most people do not diagnose people when coming to an opinion about them.

And, given that you're expressing your opinion, let me express mine: It is completely socially unacceptable and ridiculous for a layperson to diagnose people with disorders based on scant evidence.

Also, whatever observations you make will probably end up contributing to the conclusion you've already come to.  Thing is, people don't like to be wrong, and you are clearly not an exception.  So, if you see evidence against autism, then you will probably ignore or rationalize it, while if you see evidence in favor of autism, you'll use it to support your as-of-now unsupported, premature, and unqualified opinion.  It's called confirmation bias.

You can "leave room for error" all you want, but you simply do not have the information to come to a conclusion in the first place at this moment.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Dec 16, 2012)

Wait. Stop.

A bit ago you came on this thread asking about certain things regarding the OP. Obviously you missed out on some things about the OP and we had to fill you in that information.
Ok Fair enough.

But this is what gets me. You then decided to defend the person for the kind of artwork. Which hey, that's fine. Just as fellow artists we're going to say these opinions you have aren't really embedded with fact based on experience as artists. It then became some argument about the user being autistic.

Ok, we refuted that with the evidence you presented. Then you proceeded to state that you contact this user. So you've gone from being primarily ignorant of the thread and the user's works to now an expert on autism and how you contact this very user.

You'll excuse me if I call shenanigans.


----------



## Teal (Dec 16, 2012)

Hey Kixu I can sit there and organize folders and files on my computer for hours, I can reshelve books for hours, work on art for hours.
I sometimes make odd noises and random mostly uncontroled movments.

Tell me do I have autism?
Hmmm...................?


----------



## Taralack (Dec 16, 2012)

Good god why is this thread still going? 

_Let it die_


----------



## Teal (Dec 16, 2012)

But all this arguing is _delicious._


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 17, 2012)

Toraneko said:


> Good god why is this thread still going?
> 
> _Let it die_



I'm sorry Tor, but we can't do that.


----------



## Kixu (Dec 17, 2012)

Enwon, thank you.  I've had some sleep now (I was quite deprived), and I can see that you're right.

I do still think there's a chance he's on the spectrum, but the manner in which I phrased this earlier in this thread was far too strong.  At most, I can suggest the possibility, nothing more.

As I said in one of my very first posts, his behaviour and the reaction he's received reminds me strongly of myself a few years ago, and I think it hit a nerve.  Many of the accusations people have thrown at him in this thread are accusations that have been leveled at myself â€” accusations of being an exhibitionist â€” and I know how much they hurt, and how out-of-the-blue and dehumanizing they feel when they are honestly misplaced.


----------



## Enwon (Dec 17, 2012)

Kixu said:


> Enwon, thank you.  I've had some sleep now (I was quite deprived), and I can see that you're right.
> 
> I do still think there's a chance he's on the spectrum, but the manner in which I phrased this earlier in this thread was far too strong.  At most, I can suggest the possibility, nothing more.
> 
> As I said in one of my very first posts, his behaviour and the reaction he's received reminds me strongly of myself a few years ago, and I think it hit a nerve.  Many of the accusations people have thrown at him in this thread are accusations that have been leveled at myself â€” accusations of being an exhibitionist â€” and I know how much they hurt, and how out-of-the-blue and dehumanizing they feel when they are honestly misplaced.


You're welcome.  Only two more things to add:

1. There's a possibility for most people you meet at all ever to have a disorder (especially with mental disorders, because they are not visible).  The thing is, one just can't know.  And, as I already said about it being socially unacceptable to diagnose... avoid suggesting the possibility if you think it is there.  People will perceive it as still believing the diagnosis, even if that's not your intention.  It's one of those social situation things.

2. Watch out for projection.  Projection can be incredibly deceitful at times, because it masquerades as empathy.  But the issue with it is, while empathy is about putting yourself in other peoples' shoes, projection is thinking that your shoes are theirs as well.
Why do I say this?  The "accusations thrown at myself" thing struck a chord with you.  After all, nobody likes to be attacked.  And maybe there are similarities in how you two behave in some situations.  In the end, though, he is not you and you are not him.

For next time's sake, be careful about how you defend people.  You can say, "Knock off the insults, guys, it's not funny" (even though they'll probably justify themselves as just giving helpful criticism).


----------



## Kixu (Dec 17, 2012)

Thank you.  That makes a lot of sense.   Sorry for any trouble.


----------

