# What are the number one mistakes of first time fursuit makers?



## paroapockinroo (Dec 15, 2012)

We all know the classics, dogs with square noses, larger foreheads...what are some more subtle ones that can be avoided though? Anyone who commissions fursuits or has been making them a while I would love your feedback.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 16, 2012)

paroapockinroo said:


> We all know the classics, dogs with square noses, larger foreheads...what are some more subtle ones that can be avoided though? Anyone who commissions fursuits or has been making them a while I would love your feedback.


I'm a beginner and I've made small things (mini mannequin full suit for a drawing dummy and tails/gloves) and my biggest problems were probably 1.fur amounts ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS measure with a 1-2 in margin or even more if you can spare it 2. Seams I couldn't always get them to look seamless so yeah that's another problem
3.claws misaligned I couldn't always get the claws on right but just check and double check before gluing on and you'll be alright

ADDITION: Also this is a problem that this person made on 3+ masks https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg 
though I'm not sure if it'll show the pic or just a link but yeah so just DON'T do what this maker did


----------



## RitsukaAo (Dec 16, 2012)

Do you have a live journal account? This page has tons of stuff to browse through: http://fursuit.livejournal.com/

Anyway, I've found that although I need to be critical of my work, I need to understand it won't be perfect. It will just frustrate you to no end obsessing about every little thing. There is no shame in a few flaws. Also, you need to make sure that your head has personality. Dead/soulless eyes with a flat expression looks creepy and you need to make sure that the face matches the character you are trying to portray. So no doofy looks on your serious fursona.


----------



## DarrylWolf (Dec 16, 2012)

"Drag queen eyebrows"- where the eyebrows are not level.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 16, 2012)

DarrylWolf said:


> "Drag queen eyebrows"- where the eyebrows are not level.


Lol you make me laugh xD cause it's true!!!

Also I'll be stalking this board for tips xD (not in a creepy way)


----------



## KookiesNKreamCollie (Dec 16, 2012)

Facial features out of preportion and dis-oriented and also they never seem to shave the fur!


----------



## Wereling (Dec 16, 2012)

KookiesNKreamCollie said:


> Facial features out of preportion and dis-oriented and also they never seem to shave the fur!



Don't forget un-even shaving. Whenever I see that I'm like"how hard is it to go slowly so it turns out nicely?" I actually find shaving fur soothing.....until I breathe some in and start sneezing everywhere,that I find annoying


----------



## Deo (Dec 16, 2012)

-non-symmetrical foaming/base structure
-cone-shaped heads (common in all-foam heads)
-stupid looking eyes (usually made out of foamies, paper shit, or something retarded)
-giant foreheads
-giant muzzles
-the person didn't plan for how much bulk fur adds to a head so now the finished head is huuuuuuuge compared to their body
-vision ports were not planned and sort of wandered off into the middle of the face
-cheap fun fur
-shaved out chunks
-globby nasty "airbrushing"
-hot glue visible
-unfinished inside of mouth


----------



## Dokid (Dec 16, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Don't forget un-even shaving. Whenever I see that I'm like"how hard is it to go slowly so it turns out nicely?" I actually find shaving fur soothing.....until I breathe some in and start sneezing everywhere,that I find annoying




Depends on what shavers or scissors you have.

My first head I used really really old terrible clippers. So what it resulted in was uneven shaving that  was extremely choppy. Although in normal daylight you can't tell.

Another thing is when people have mistakes that make me think "did at any point during their construction did they think 'hey. maybe I did something wrong' as well as other things"


----------



## Deo (Dec 16, 2012)

Oh, your picture also reminds me, fur direction is important. The fur on the above suit has the fur going in the opposite direction on the ears and forehead.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 16, 2012)

Deo said:


> Oh, your picture also reminds me, fur direction is important. The fur on the above suit has the fur going in the opposite direction on the ears and forehead.



I have a question Deo. Have you ever met someone who absolutely refused to take any critique on their fursuit? So then it comes out a monstrosity?


----------



## Deo (Dec 16, 2012)

Dokid said:


> I have a question Deo. Have you ever met someone who absolutely refused to take any critique on their fursuit? So then it comes out a monstrosity?



HA HA HA HA

More people refuse critique than I can count. Have I ever met someone... oh lawdy that's funny. No, most people are horrendously offended that I would dare tell them that their _masterpiece_ has even the smallest of flaws, even if it is an abomination that needs to be lit on fire.


----------



## Calemeyr (Dec 16, 2012)

How can it be that difficult to make something at least halfway decent? I mean, do these people even know what animals look like? If you spend enough time on art, not rushing, you should get something, while not professional, that isn't an eyesore.

The biggest mistakes have to be the people rushing the project for a con, having an overinflated ego when it comes to their work (ie taking criticism as trolling), and for some, completely failing to understand what living creatures look like.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 16, 2012)

Deo said:


> HA HA HA HA
> 
> More people refuse critique than I can count. Have I ever met someone... oh lawdy that's funny. No, most people are horrendously offended that I would dare tell them that their _masterpiece_ has even the smallest of flaws, even if it is an abomination that needs to be lit on fire.



Lol like the Dagger mask by Huskyton oh man it need to be lit so badly


Marcus Stormchaser said:


> How can it be that difficult to make something at least halfway decent? I mean, do these people even know what animals look like? If you spend enough time on art, not rushing, you should get something, while not professional, that isn't an eyesore.
> 
> The biggest mistakes have to be the people rushing the project for a con, having an overinflated ego when it comes to their work (ie taking criticism as trolling), and for some, completely failing to understand what living creatures look like.


Yeah that's why when I make a suit I'm gonna have tons of pics of a husky and my reference art 
Plus I don't have to rush it cause I dont think it's worth making a crappy suit then paying money to go to the cool areas of the con with a crap suit and having people ridiculing you


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm certainly not an expert, but:

- 'Head Injury Eyes'  when suits have a weird, unfocused stare that makes them look like they've recently received a concussion. 

-Ears being just a triangle stuck on the head, with no curvature at all. 

-Head being put right on top of the head, in the centre.

-Eyes that aren't made of resin, buckram, plastic or any other materials that aren't the standard. Creativity and innovation is one thing...but some techniques have become widely used for good reason. If 'foam eyes' weren't invariably horrifying, makers would probably be using that technique. Eyes really can make or break something. Creepy eyes on an otherwise great suit makes for creepy suit.

- 'I just took a fuzzy poop' tails. where someone has just stuffed a cylinder made of fake fur and it has no shape to it.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 17, 2012)

BahrgeistSmile said:


> Creepy eyes on an otherwise great suit makes for creepy suit.


I cannot emphasize this enough. I have seen so many fursuits with decent colour-schemes & good construction get ruined by the creep-eyes.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 17, 2012)

Deo said:


> HA HA HA HA
> 
> More people refuse critique than I can count. Have I ever met someone... oh lawdy that's funny. No, most people are horrendously offended that I would dare tell them that their _masterpiece_ has even the smallest of flaws, even if it is an abomination that needs to be lit on fire.



I honestly don't know why people even react that way. critique is one of the best things you can get because it show what you need to fix or improve. :/



Kazooie said:


> I cannot emphasize this enough. I have seen so many fursuits with decent colour-schemes & good construction get ruined by the creep-eyes.



Yeah mine came out like one of those sadly. Mostly because I had no idea how to do eyes and didn't realize that eyes are first to be put on.



			
				wereling said:
			
		

> Lol like the Dagger mask by Huskyton oh man it need to be lit so badly



Link please?


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 17, 2012)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> How can it be that difficult to make something at least halfway decent? I mean, do these people even know what animals look like? If you spend enough time on art, not rushing, you should get something, while not professional, that isn't an eyesore.
> 
> The biggest mistakes have to be the people rushing the project for a con, having an overinflated ego when it comes to their work (ie taking criticism as trolling), and for some, completely failing to understand what living creatures look like.



Rushing is probably the worst thing you can do when building anything, if you research proper construction, plan things out and take you time building it you should come out with something at least half-way decent.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 17, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Link please?



https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg
This is the worst mask I've ever seen and it has tons of problems
1.the nose is DRAWN onto the fur so it looks like a spot of different colored fur
2.the ears are just 1 piece of 1/2 in foam with fur so they have no shape to them
3.EYES need I say more?
4.the tail is one of those "fuzzy poop" tails 
5.the pawsare just ovenmitts with fur and claws built over them
6.it's WAAAYY too big for this girl just check out her videos and you'll see (I don't have a link cause im on my iPod)
7.the mouth is crappy as well
8.She said she had to get it done by a con so yeah RUSHED
I think she should've just not made the masks,saved time and money and just go buy one
But I think you'll all agree that one of the biggest problems beginner suit makers have is their egos cause try ask for help then people give constructive criticism and the maker ignores it entirely and ends up making a piece of crap suit


----------



## dinosaurdammit (Dec 17, 2012)

Wereling said:


> https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg
> This is the worst mask I've ever seen and it has tons of problems
> 1.the nose is DRAWN onto the fur so it looks like a spot of different colored fur
> 2.the ears are just 1 piece of 1/2 in foam with fur so they have no shape to them
> ...



*OH


MY


GOD*


----------



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 17, 2012)

I gotta recommend this site to everyone

So many excellent masterpieces here, ones that you can learn from by examining them.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 17, 2012)

Wereling said:


> https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg
> This is the worst mask I've ever seen and it has tons of problems
> 1.the nose is DRAWN onto the fur so it looks like a spot of different colored fur
> 2.the ears are just 1 piece of 1/2 in foam with fur so they have no shape to them
> ...



That has got to be the most bastardized fursuit I have ever seen.



Gibby said:


> I gotta recommend this site to everyone
> 
> So many excellent masterpieces here, ones that you can learn from by examining them.



Ya, learn what NOT to do.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 17, 2012)

Gibby said:


> I gotta recommend this site to everyone
> 
> So many excellent masterpieces here, ones that you can learn from by examining them.



Ahhh one of my favorite blogs.

If you guys also want to see some pretty awesome ones and not just durrsuits then look at this one as well  http://fuckyeahfursuiting.tumblr.com/


----------



## Wereling (Dec 17, 2012)

What's worse than one mask made by Huskyton? THREE masks made by Huskyton and looking as bad as Dagger


----------



## Deo (Dec 17, 2012)

Wereling said:


> https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg


I've got to say that I've seen much, much worse. At least you can tell that this is a canine thing. Some of them are so bad you can't tell what it is, like a camo-suit but instead of mossy hanging pieces it's furry hanging wtf.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 17, 2012)

Deo said:


> I've got to say that I've seen much, much worse. At least you can tell that this is a canine thing. Some of them are so bad you can't tell what it is, like a camo-suit but instead of mossy hanging pieces it's furry hanging wtf.



There is actually worse out there, I gotta see this can you provide a link.


----------



## Deo (Dec 17, 2012)

Example A: ShadoWolfess
This isn't the worst one I've seen, but it's a good example. It has neon red nipples, fake boobs, and a giant red fake vagina. It's also a wolf (though you couldn't really tell by looking at it). It has no nose and no eyes. There are two holes in the middle of the face to see out of. It has an animu wig. And the guy who wears it ghosts cons by sleeping on the hotel furniture instead of registering or paying for a room. He's also banned from AC, FC, MFF, and I can't remember the last one, for being too creepy.

Oh, and it has a version 2.0, now with eyes and nose (but here is a WIP pic of it as the creeper was building the new vajayjay).
NSFW


OOH! And here's a treat, someone collaged together NovaNightmare's work:





And some random baddies:








[video=youtube;yZKb_-MwM0w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=yZKb_-MwM0w[/video]














And I remember this next "dragon" because the maker bragged about "NOW SEAMS! " which turned out to be code for "I did not sew seams" meaning it's all strung together with hot glue.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 17, 2012)

Wow, what a piece of shit and I'm just talking about that suit, if you can even call it that.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 17, 2012)

Wha.... Why would you not sew anything? Fabric is meant to be sewn not just glued together.

Also no. That NSFW fursuit just needs to be burned. Even though those "sexy" fursuits creep me out that one really takes the cake. Does the guy even realize that he's so creepy?

I just want to look into these people's minds just to see what they think or see in their own work. There's a big difference between proud but knowing the flaws and proud "lalalala I did everything perfect"


----------



## Deo (Dec 17, 2012)

There was a "suit" I posted on either Bad_Fur or Furbid-Horrors, and I cannot find it. It is THE WORST fursuit I have ever seen. It was a fox made out of paper mache put on top of paper plates, it was super super super creepy and had giant teeth and the jaws moved (there was a youtube video as the girl was trying to sell it). The eyes were those glass pebbles that go in the bottoms of fish tanks. It was just the creepiest thing I've ever seen worn by a person.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 17, 2012)

Deo said:


> There was a "suit" I posted on either Bad_Fur or Furbid-Horrors, and I cannot find it. It is THE WORST fursuit I have ever seen. It was a fox made out of paper mache put on top of paper plates, it was super super super creepy and had giant teeth and the jaws moved (there was a youtube video as the girl was trying to sell it). The eyes were those glass pebbles that go in the bottoms of fish tanks. It was just the creepiest thing I've ever seen worn by a person.



Oh the things people will try to sell these days. I wonder how much she wanted for it considering it was worth .50 cents in material.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 18, 2012)

OH LARWDY LARWD THAT'S TERRIFYING WHY WOULD SOMEONE EVEN THINK ABOUT MAKING THE MONTROSITY AND WHY WOULD A GUY WEAR IT?!?!?!?!? I Would rather come across a Dalek in a dark alley than that scary suit -shudders-


----------



## Dokid (Dec 18, 2012)

Wereling said:


> OH LARWDY LARWD THAT'S TERRIFYING WHY WOULD SOMEONE EVEN THINK ABOUT MAKING THE MONTROSITY AND WHY WOULD A GUY WEAR IT?!?!?!?!? I Would rather come across a Dalek in a dark alley than that scary suit -shudders-



Or a room full of cybermen without the Doctor. 

Anyways this thread should be starred. It's probably the first thread most new makers should visit before they start hacking away at the foam and fur.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 18, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Or a room full of cybermen without the Doctor.
> 
> Anyways this thread should be starred. It's probably the first thread most new makers should visit before they start hacking away at the foam and fur.


 
Or even watching The Doctor die and nt regenerate.....wait no I couldn't watch that without knowing if he would come back or not.
But yeah this is a great thread for beginners to look at to see what not to do 
Great idea Dokid!


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 18, 2012)

nightmarefuel.jpg


----------



## Wereling (Dec 18, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> nightmarefuel.jpg



No pic xD


----------



## Sam 007 NL (Dec 18, 2012)

That's absolutely terrifying. what the actual fuck.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 18, 2012)

What really gets me is that people are actually are willing to show these monstrosities off.


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 18, 2012)

Wereling said:


> No pic xD



http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NightmareFuel


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 18, 2012)

Hahaha! WOW!


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 18, 2012)

RadioactiveRedFox said:


> What really gets me is that people are actually are willing to show these monstrosities off.



People are sometimes proud of their demented inbred babies that they will show them off like ponies, only to fall short when people do not share in their love for their creation. It's worse when people like Nova or Jesskitt try to captialize off of the idea of selling crap and preying on the furries who think it is mandatory to have a fursuit.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 18, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> People are sometimes proud of their demented inbred babies that they will show them off like ponies, only to fall short when people do not share in their love for their creation. It's worse when people like Nova or Jesskitt try to captialize off of the idea of selling crap and preying on the furries who think it is mandatory to have a fursuit.



I can't say I disagree there.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 18, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> People are sometimes proud of their demented inbred babies that they will show them off like ponies, only to fall short when people do not share in their love for their creation. It's worse when people like Nova or Jesskitt try to captialize off of the idea of selling crap and preying on the furries who think it is mandatory to have a fursuit.



honestly. The only one that looks remotely like the character is the monkey head thing from DBZ. Otherwise most of her works looks like she hacked away with a chainsaw and chose the fabric blindly. 

also what's up with that weird koala thing?


----------



## Bulveye (Dec 18, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Oh the things people will try to sell these days. I wonder how much she wanted for it considering it was worth .50 cents in material.


People will buy anything! This is going for $75 as "extra foam and fabric" and actually has a bidder. I'm still confused. 
http://www.furbuy.com/auctions/1037748.html


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 19, 2012)

Marcus Stormchaser said:


> How can it be that difficult to make something at least halfway decent? I mean, do these people even know what animals look like? If you spend enough time on art, not rushing, you should get something, while not professional, that isn't an eyesore.
> 
> The biggest mistakes have to be the people rushing the project for a con, having an overinflated ego when it comes to their work (ie taking criticism as trolling), and for some, completely failing to understand what living creatures look like.



This isn't me trying to make you feel bad, just a thought...
My sister is borderline autistic, and she lacks some of the motor skills to make some of her suits look professional.  She spent an entire year on a griffon for a con, and i feel like if it was posted here it would be one of the ones we'd be ripping apart.  She's aware of this, sometimes she'll kind of lament about it. I just feel bad making fun of other people's suits, because you just don't know. she worked her ass off on her fursuit, and she's so proud of it,  and i'm always worried it'll show up on WTFsuits or something, which would crush her.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> This isn't me trying to make you feel bad, just a thought...
> My sister is borderline autistic, and she lacks some of the motor skills to make some of her suits look professional.  She spent an entire year on a griffon for a con, and i feel like if it was posted here it would be one of the ones we'd be ripping apart.  She's aware of this, sometimes she'll kind of lament about it. I just feel bad making fun of other people's suits, because you just don't know. she worked her ass off on her fursuit, and she's so proud of it,  and i'm always worried it'll show up on WTFsuits or something, which would crush her.


You can spend your life building an elaborate ball of trash, but all it'll be is a ball of trash, in the end. Your sister is gonna have to learn that there are some things in life _she isn't good at_. Though, it's true that getting ripped apart on the internet isn't necessarily the way to achieve that.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 19, 2012)

Kazooie said:


> You can spend your life building an elaborate ball of trash, but all it'll be is a ball of trash, in the end. Your sister is gonna have to learn that there are some things in life _she isn't good at_. Though, it's true that getting ripped apart on the internet isn't necessarily the way to achieve that.



oh she's fully aware. it's not like she's one of these people that totes her fursuit around going LOOK HOW AMAZING I ARE AT FURSUITING! she makes them purely because she enjoys making them, and they make her happy. she's not trying to really impress anybody, she's just trying to enjoy herself. But if someone walks up to her and berates her just for doing what she enjoys, i dunno, i think that's kinda shitty :/ i guess it would be different if she tried _selling _them.

My point is that  if someone finds enjoyment out of making something for their own self (NOT selling them overpriced on furbids....yeesh) and yeah, they're not very good at it, do they deserve the same punishment as nightmare nova?

EDIT: I guess i should also state that you don't actually have to lie and admit they're good just to make someone feel better, just cutting them some slack and not mock them. I mean really the only way to get better at something is to KEEP DOING IT. it's gonna look shitty at first, but if they keep getting mocked and berated on their skill it'll discourage them from ever trying to improve.


----------



## Kazooie (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> oh she's fully aware. it's not like she's one of these people that totes her fursuit around going LOOK HOW AMAZING I ARE AT FURSUITING! she makes them purely because she enjoys making them, and they make her happy. she's not trying to really impress anybody, she's just trying to enjoy herself.


Random internet people making fun of a thing you made is entirely meaningless if you are able to accept the fact that you are not out to impress everyone, that what you created was not perfect, and that you plan to improve in the future. Displaying an artistic creation to the public inevitably invites criticism.


----------



## She-King (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm a first time fursuit maker and my first furring head is this.

I"m very critical of my work and I have a good sense, naturally about how things should look, but being able to physically produce it in space isn't always a natural function for me. Some artists have it others have to learn it while they can do other things naturally. Symmetry is  something I struggle with in a lot of things, even drawing and being able to draw, I've noticed, helps you to make a better and more accurate, natural-looking fursuit. 

So if you have talent in drawing, you'll make a good-looking fursuit that looks A LOT better than someone who doesn't draw or can't draw at all. I've noticed most people that fursuit build, draw regularly or draw exceedingly skillfully, which means, your space-rendered crafts look a lot more pleasing. Sculpture works this way too.


[video=youtube;2K2LlIVGKlc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUekgVP9JeMnN2wARluRdmrQ&amp;feature=player  _detailpage&amp;v=2K2LlIVGKlc[/video]


Somethings to note.

No eyebrows. Not black lines, no. Dogs don't have eyebrows anyways, but they do have brow ridges. 

The nose is square, I"m sorry if this is a mistake, but what the crap, it's my first furring job and crafting things I can easily make in a drawing, is NOT the same as drawing it correctly. I'm physically crafting something in space. It's a totally different thing and I'm new to it, as well. One reason why so many people make such crappy-looking masks, is that they don't have any artistic instincts that are inborn or talent so they tackle something they have no business tackling and naturally, they want to show it off. Unfortunately, it's going to eat them alive and they'll go down with it in flames.

The head is HUGE compared to me. Yes, I know this. My instincts were right, but I took poor advice from the wrong person and after shaving the mask down quite a bit because I new it would look better smaller, I buffed him back up in fear of losing his Akita "Shape". Big mistake! NO need to be harped about his head. Instead, to make up for his large size and practice improvising, I'm going to make his hand paws very large and a large tail to match his head. I'll hope he gets purchased by a taller buyer. Maybe 6 ft. That's shooting a bit long, but someone taller than me I'm 57. He'll look better that way. HIs neck is going to be buffed up to accomadate his massive cranium I've just overloaded him with. My masks have NEVER come out this large. He was just a new species and shape and I kinda tackled him too hard, I think. I'm still learning. Now I know how to take on something that looks poofy.

His muzzle was freaking mauled by a pair of retardedly controlled scissors and I will NOT shave his face until I have clippers or I might sell him as is. I've scared myself and even though I practiced on scrap fur, we're not going to cut anything again. I took it slow too. I have no good experience with something like that with just doing a little bit once or twice. The muzzle looks like Blankity blank-blank and nothing else will get shaved because its too hideous. The rest of his face, hopefully, will make up for my stupid experience.

My furring job is very...controversial. I've stressed over this mask so much to get my crap right because I want to sell him, I've literally had freak-outs, and pure ego, emotional, and mental exhuastion trying to work around my own problems I can easily see that are evident in this mask. This is the cheapest fur I could buy, from my first mask which I have dubbed a Kangaroo. It was supposed to be something else, but I got shot down on FA, which, I might add, could do a better job at critiquing people who might not know what they're doing. People need to help people NICELY and GOOD-NATUREDLY get their stuff straight. No sarcastic or ASININE beatings, that's very emotionally jarring and then they wonder why people won't accept critiques. I will confess, I got kinda nasty with Deo, but literally, I felt attacked after a certain point because I didn't understand his wording. I know people on here have a tendency to get rather sardonic about things and that can confuse people since it's text and not in person. NO offense to Deo or anyone who says things like "This looks like something the cat coughed up. Don't quit your day job and throw that thing in the trash, maybe let your dog unbuild it for you so it can have a proper burial" Or something like that. You just don't say that to people. It's jerky and inconsiderate and unprofessional. Once again, not naming anybody specific. It depends on the situation of the mask that determines the reply, but that shouldn't matter. Professionalism is professional and tasteful.


I used a white teddy bear for this fur. I'm poor and it was all I could afford from the thrift store. I made sure the bear was clean by sticking it in the washer and then air drying the bear before I cut it, very strategically, I might add, which just added to the stress and critical outlook I had of my furring job. SOme places aren't covered up too well because I have struggled for years with being neat on anything craft-like. I do have many places were fur is matted with hot glue finding its way into the fur because I couldn't figure out where my hands should be at certain intersections of the mask, gluing fur patterns and trying not to get it on any other fur.

I have aspergers and one thing I struggle with is being coordinate and being neat. Even my room has to be prowled upon like a hawk or it can get messy real quick. I know, if I go really slow and deliberately figure out how to do this, I CAN do this until its second nature and I will be neat. 

Because of my poor coordination and my first furring job, no, this furring job is not perfect, I have crappy fur, and I had to figure out sneaky little techniques to hide the strips of fur that are divided. Some areas of the white places are better hidden and seamless than others because I learned as I went and got smarter along the way. I'm also learning how to hide mistakes that I make due to my crude way of going about this.

All in all, regardless of my mistakes, I'm not going to stress on them too much. I'm going to be honest with the buyer, give up close and personal shots and video of the mask, everything someone would want if they're interested and if they want him, they can have him, I will ensure that he is worth to be bought for longevity. 

I have seen some of the suits that people make and my goodness, I feel so sorry for the people that lack the self-critique gauge I and other artists have. Some people just...don't have that, you have to be aware. It doesn't mean people are dumb. Some people are actually rigged more prepared or better than some for certain situations. I'm so freaked out for this mask I wonder if anybody will want him with as many mistakes, nicks, scars, matted fur, and anything else I've had on him. GOSH, I"m so scared. 

He's only my worst nightmare because every last bit of money he brings in will determine how far I get on the personal fursuit I actually want to finish for cons next year. I need a little over 200 for him. I want to be technical about his pricing. 

No, my furring job is NOT the best nor is it skilled or seasoned. No, he's not perfectly seamless and the fur I used is craptastic store-bought fur, which I will never use again, but its all I had out of desperation. The price can easily be figured out there. At the least, the head, once I add more foam to back and fur it, would be like 130, maybe. Once I add handpaws arm sleeves, and a tail he may go up to 200 because of a little feature I'm going to install on him. If people want more of him, the price will go up, but frankly, no more than 200. This mask is NOT worth that much, most likely at all with all the mistakes I've had to cover up. He's my first furring job, fourth head and a guinea pig at this point. It sucks for me though because I want to sell him.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> oh she's fully aware. it's not like she's one of these people that totes her fursuit around going LOOK HOW AMAZING I ARE AT FURSUITING! she makes them purely because she enjoys making them, and they make her happy. she's not trying to really impress anybody, she's just trying to enjoy herself. But if someone walks up to her and berates her just for doing what she enjoys, i dunno, i think that's kinda shitty :/ i guess it would be different if she tried _selling _them.
> 
> My point is that  if someone finds enjoyment out of making something for their own self (NOT selling them overpriced on furbids....yeesh) and yeah, they're not very good at it, do they deserve the same punishment as nightmare nova?
> 
> EDIT: I guess i should also state that you don't actually have to lie and admit they're good just to make someone feel better, just cutting them some slack and not mock them. I mean really the only way to get better at something is to KEEP DOING IT. it's gonna look shitty at first, but if they keep getting mocked and berated on their skill it'll discourage them from ever trying to improve.



But she actually does try selling them. Several times in fact. Also you need to take in some critical remarks and improve. she's made so many that you'd think she'd improve on her fursuits after the amount that she's built.


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> EDIT: I guess i should also state that you don't actually have to lie and admit they're good just to make someone feel better, just cutting them some slack and not mock them. I mean really the only way to get better at something is to KEEP DOING IT. it's gonna look shitty at first, but if they keep getting mocked and berated on their skill it'll discourage them from ever trying to improve.



Keep doing it isn't always the case because if you do not have a 2nd opinion to point out any errors, you are bound to make the same mistakes over and over again. That's why sites that have professionals offering advice before you post it.

If they refuse to improve and try to sell their work when there are OBVIOUS flaws, you are asking for ridicule. Not from places like here, but Bad_fur of Live Journal and Furbid_horrors. 
It's nor right, but it happens, especially when you want to sell your work online.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> This isn't me trying to make you feel bad, just a thought...
> My sister is borderline autistic, and she lacks some of the motor skills to make some of her suits look professional.  She spent an entire year on a griffon for a con, and i feel like if it was posted here it would be one of the ones we'd be ripping apart.  She's aware of this, sometimes she'll kind of lament about it. I just feel bad making fun of other people's suits, because you just don't know. she worked her ass off on her fursuit, and she's so proud of it,  and i'm always worried it'll show up on WTFsuits or something, which would crush her.


Could we see a pic?I promise I won't dis it or anything
But this board is showing people who think they're pros and are SELLING their crap for prices only stupid people would pay.well mostly


----------



## Dokid (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> This isn't me trying to make you feel bad, just a thought...
> My sister is borderline autistic, and she lacks some of the motor skills to make some of her suits look professional.  She spent an entire year on a griffon for a con, and i feel like if it was posted here it would be one of the ones we'd be ripping apart.  She's aware of this, sometimes she'll kind of lament about it. I just feel bad making fun of other people's suits, because you just don't know. she worked her ass off on her fursuit, and she's so proud of it,  and i'm always worried it'll show up on WTFsuits or something, which would crush her.



But there's a difference between your sister who genuinely cannot do this and someone who is making junk and trying to sell it and *then* not taking in any critique. 

Also fuck yeah durrsuits and WTF suits will take down any submission if the owner doesn't want it there. 

The internet can be full of cruel people but they don't know much about the people who posts these things. You'll always get the few that will make fun of anything but if she's accepting of helpful critique then there really is no problem.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 19, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Could we see a pic?I promise I won't dis it or anything
> But this board is showing people who think they're pros and are SELLING their crap for prices only stupid people would pay.well mostly


i better not, if she even knows that i said anything about her suit she'd be upset, she might think i was making fun of her. She's constantly on the defensive about herself because people have made fun of her basically her entire life.

i just wouldn't feel right posting a pic without her permission, sorry


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 19, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Keep doing it isn't always the case because if you do not have a 2nd opinion to point out any errors, you are bound to make the same mistakes over and over again. That's why sites that have professionals offering advice before you post it.
> 
> If they refuse to improve and try to sell their work when there are OBVIOUS flaws, you are asking for ridicule. Not from places like here, but Bad_fur of Live Journal and Furbid_horrors.
> It's nor right, but it happens, especially when you want to sell your work online.



right but there's a right way and a wrong way to give critiques. a right way would be in person face to face, a wrong way would be to post a pic of the suit online and ridicule it. 

and i think i should say that i'm not accusing anyone here, just saying all this for the sake of discussion.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 19, 2012)

Dokid said:


> But she actually does try selling them. Several times in fact. Also you need to take in some critical remarks and improve. she's made so many that you'd think she'd improve on her fursuits after the amount that she's built.


for a second i thought you meant my sister haha 

but yes, if you've been told by several people that you need to improve and ignore that, then you are inviting insult. I'm not saying it's right, but i can see your point too. 


i can't remember who said it, but someone mentioned she's the "ed wood" of fursuiting. that is perfect.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 19, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> right but there's a right way and a wrong way to give critiques. a right way would be in person face to face, a wrong way would be to post a pic of the suit online and ridicule it.
> 
> and i think i should say that i'm not accusing anyone here, just saying all this for the sake of discussion.




Actually a good critique is one that both shows the flaws and the parts that look great. It's not being mean such as "this sucks. destroy it and make it better" but instead it should be "I really like how you did the eyes but you might want to fix how the ears are different sizes and you didn't really want it that way"

As an artist I thrive on critique. It helps me in the long run and I feel like I can do better. 

We wouldn't be mean unless you went all "No. Everything is perfect. lah  lah lah not listening" Like so many others will do.


----------



## shootmister (Dec 19, 2012)

You know guys I could still use some advice on my Mask post.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 19, 2012)

shootmister said:


> You know guys I could still use some advice on my Mask post.



Which post?


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 19, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Actually a good critique is one that both shows the flaws and the parts that look great. It's not being mean such as "this sucks. destroy it and make it better" but instead it should be "I really like how you did the eyes but you might want to fix how the ears are different sizes and you didn't really want it that way"
> 
> As an artist I thrive on critique. It helps me in the long run and I feel like I can do better.
> 
> We wouldn't be mean unless you went all "No. Everything is perfect. lah  lah lah not listening" Like so many others will do.



that's exactly what i mean. stating things like "i like this but here's where you need to work on this". i went to school for art and that's exactly how it was done. but my prof didn't snap a pic of a painting i was working on and put it on a site like "shitty student art.com" and mock it. (even though she could've...there's a reason i didn't do anything with graphic design lol!)

but i agree with you 100%. if someone is going to act shitty, they better expect a shitty response.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 20, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> that's exactly what i mean. stating things like "i like this but here's where you need to work on this". i went to school for art and that's exactly how it was done. but my prof didn't snap a pic of a painting i was working on and put it on a site like "shitty student art.com" and mock it. (even though she could've...there's a reason i didn't do anything with graphic design lol!)
> 
> but i agree with you 100%. if someone is going to act shitty, they better expect a shitty response.



But you don't understand. With good pictures or even video as well as angles. You can see exactly what is there. It's the same as if you were there if not better. still pictures allow you to really focus on the subject. 

Most of the time its best to get critique from complete strangers who aren't afraid to point out that something needs to be fixed. 

Fuck yeah durrsuits actually aims to help other fursuit makers. Not only by showing what not to do but also if you legitimately ask for critique and not sarcasm then they owner will be respectful and thoughtful about it.

Plus if you can't take a little sarcasm about what you do, then you shouldn't really be on the internet.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 20, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Plus if you can't take a little sarcasm about what you do, then you shouldn't really be on the internet.



True dat


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 20, 2012)

Dokid said:


> But you don't understand. With good pictures or even video as well as angles. You can see exactly what is there. It's the same as if you were there if not better. still pictures allow you to really focus on the subject.
> 
> Most of the time its best to get critique from complete strangers who aren't afraid to point out that something needs to be fixed.
> 
> ...



you can focus on a subject until your eyes fall out, if you don't have the talent, you don't have the talent. Sad but true. 

and yes, i agree with you there. some people take the internet way to personally.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 20, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> you can focus on a subject until your eyes fall out, if you don't have the talent, you don't have the talent. Sad but true.
> 
> and yes, i agree with you there. some people take the internet way to personally.



Actually it's mostly practice and hard work. You also need to see from other views (ahem...critiques) what needs to be improved.

Arshes actually has an amazing thread on this one guy who drew something every...single...day. At first he was awful. But at the end of the thread he's absolutely amazing. Hard work works wonders.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 21, 2012)

Well back to the subject of that creepy wolf "sexy" suit
Why do people think suits like that look "good"? Those suits are just what the media want.suits that scare the shut outta people and have fake privates it's just disgusting

And Dokid do you happen to have a link?


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Well back to the subject of that creepy wolf "sexy" suit
> Why do people think suits like that look "good"? Those suits are just what the media want.suits that scare the shut outta people and have fake privates it's just disgusting
> 
> And Dokid do you happen to have a link?



i gotta wonder if some people get it as a joke. like "durrhurr look at my wolf penis".


----------



## Dokid (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Well back to the subject of that creepy wolf "sexy" suit
> Why do people think suits like that look "good"? Those suits are just what the media want.suits that scare the shut outta people and have fake privates it's just disgusting
> 
> And Dokid do you happen to have a link?



Sadly when I was cleaning out my bookmarks it was deleted by accident. Although you could probably note Arshes and she'll have the link for sure. She started it in fact. 

Anyways I honestly don't know. I mean okay so this person has this...thing. They can at least keep it out of the public view. No one wants to see that and its honestly terrifying that he proudly shows it. 

If I ever make fursuits for a hobby or just something on the side I would never make a fursuit with SPH or a "murrsuit". If they want something like that they can make it themselves. 



Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> i gotta wonder if some people get it as a joke. like "durrhurr look at my wolf penis".



I mean...getting one or using one like that is a lot more harmful to yourself and your reputation in the community. It really wouldn't be worth the humiliation.

that and most of these people don't sound or art like they're just joking around. They're dead serious. 

Oh and on the topic of the thread. *If you want to make a murrsuit then please, don't post it everywhere and show everyone it.*â€‹


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 21, 2012)

Stupid question, what is a murrsuit? A furry suit thats designed for actual fucking?


----------



## Sam 007 NL (Dec 21, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Stupid question, what is a murrsuit? A furry suit thats designed for actual fucking?



Yeah I think it is, sometimes it has dildos attached to it and stuff but I'm pretty sure there are weirdos in FAF that wouuld LOVE to give you more info about them :3

Type it in google images or sumtin'


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 21, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> Stupid question, what is a murrsuit? A furry suit thats designed for actual fucking?



Unfortunately, I think that is exactly what a murrsuit is.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 21, 2012)

Sam 007 NL said:


> Type it in google images or sumtin'



I'd rather not...but my curiosity is getting the better of me.

Doesnt it get hot as hell inside those suits?

EDIT: Just did an image search.


----------



## Sam 007 NL (Dec 21, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> I'd rather not...but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
> 
> Doesnt it get hot as hell inside those suits?
> 
> EDIT: Just did an image search.


Haha, I also just typed it in and seriously regret it. 

Yup. I am sure you can overheat having sexeh timez in one of them.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 21, 2012)

I think people who have the money to buy one of those can get a fan or two installed so they can do it longer...
I've never heard EM called murrsuits before I've only heard f***suits and y*ffsuits


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> I think people who have the money to buy one of those can get a fan or two installed so they can do it longer...
> I've never heard EM called murrsuits before I've only heard f***suits and y*ffsuits



A better idea would be to eliminate murrsuits from existence.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> I think people who have the money to buy one of those can get a fan or two installed so they can do it longer...
> I've never heard EM called murrsuits before I've only heard f***suits and y*ffsuits



Honestly either way it doesn't matter. They need to not be shown off at cons. Especially since usually people put boxers on them to hide the spots.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 21, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Honestly either way it doesn't matter. They need to not be shown off at cons. Especially since usually people put boxers on them to hide the spots.



Ya, I guess if there kept private it wouldn't matter, but they certainly don't belong at cons.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 21, 2012)

RadioactiveRedFox said:


> A better idea would be to eliminate murrsuits from existence.



Exactly! Ya know sometimes I'm
Ashamed to be a furry because of these people running around with fake "parts" on their suits and they are giving the media exacty what they want like in that CSI episode where they had Furries and try were using the people who do suiting for sexual gratification as the one and only type of suiter


----------



## Wereling (Dec 21, 2012)

I just hit the little button next to reply with a quote on the right by accident what does it do? 
And how do I agree with a post?


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> I just hit the little button next to reply with a quote on the right by accident what does it do?
> And how do I agree with a post?



The one on the right is multi-quote, I've never figured out how to use it thou.

There should be a button below the posters avatar and other info that has a thumbs up and says "This" if you just want to agree with a post. You will also find the report post button by the "this" button, this one is for reporting posters to the mods if there being nasty.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 21, 2012)

RadioactiveRedFox said:


> The one on the right is multi-quote, I've never figured out how to use it thou.
> 
> There should be a button below the posters avatar and other info that has a thumbs up and says "This" if you just want to agree with a post. You will also find the report post button by the "this" button, this one is for reporting posters to the mods if there being nasty.


Thanks!


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Exactly! Ya know sometimes I'm
> Ashamed to be a furry because of these people running around with fake "parts" on their suits and they are giving the media exacty what they want like in that CSI episode where they had Furries and try were using the people who do suiting for sexual gratification as the one and only type of suiter



Ya, I hear you, the dark side of the fandom has probably driven more than one furry away and has certainly not helped the fandom's image one bit.



Wereling said:


> Thanks!



No problem.


----------



## dab (Dec 21, 2012)

Wereling said:


> https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg
> This is the worst mask I've ever seen and it has tons of problems.


 
I beg to differ. Check this out. http://www.instructables.com/id/fursuit/ It chronicles the slow demise of a fursuit head from terrible foaming to terrible furring, and the worst part is, the creator thought it was good.


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 21, 2012)

dab said:


> I beg to differ. Check this out. http://www.instructables.com/id/fursuit/ It chronicles the slow demise of a fursuit head from terrible foaming to terrible furring, and the worst part is, the creator thought it was good.



Wow, looks like she built it out of scrap. And are the eyes paper, how can any one think making eyes out of paper is a good idea?


----------



## Dokid (Dec 22, 2012)

RadioactiveRedFox said:


> Wow, looks like she built it out of scrap. And are the eyes paper, how can any one think making eyes out of paper is a good idea?



I wonder if she noticed that you could see her own eyes through the outside of the eyes. That and if she knew that the jaw itself is severely off center.


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Dec 22, 2012)

That suit construction seems to defy all logic.

I'm not sure why, when one of the photos shows that she has a decent size chunk of foam there, that she'd then go on to stick random tiny bits to the head...

..and if someone was adding small pieces, I would think it would be in the interests of evening something out, correcting errors and such. A lot of those pieces glued on there look like the head would have been more even before she stuck it on...


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 22, 2012)

Dokid said:


> I wonder if she noticed that you could see her own eyes through the outside of the eyes. That and if she knew that the jaw itself is severely off center.



I don't know how you could not know. She either doesn't have a clue what she was doing or doesn't care.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 22, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> I'd rather not...but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
> 
> Doesnt it get hot as hell inside those suits?
> 
> EDIT: Just did an image search.


NOOO WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 22, 2012)

dab said:


> I beg to differ. Check this out. http://www.instructables.com/id/fursuit/ It chronicles the slow demise of a fursuit head from terrible foaming to terrible furring, and the worst part is, the creator thought it was good.


I'd like to point out that the very last picture has the word "terrible" in it lol

It does look like she made it out of scraps. it also looks like she didn't try carving out the foam before furring it. 

i think sometimes people use paper thinking that they can cut down on costs, i have a friend who keeps trying to convince me to use a toilet paper tube and cardstock paper to make follow-me eyes. (don't worry, i'm not.))


----------



## Dokid (Dec 22, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> I'd like to point out that the very last picture has the word "terrible" in it lol
> 
> It does look like she made it out of scraps. it also looks like she didn't try carving out the foam before furring it.
> 
> i think sometimes people use paper thinking that they can cut down on costs, i have a friend who keeps trying to convince me to use a toilet paper tube and cardstock paper to make follow-me eyes. (don't worry, i'm not.))



Eyes should only really be made out of resin, glass (like taxidermy eyes), plastic, mesh, and foamies. 

Also that the it's the only time that foamies are okay in a fursuit. I like them much better than the plastic bowl method.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 22, 2012)

Hate it when peopl have everything they need then make it crappy
I would LOVE to have the supplies and stuff but I don't and I have been planning this for a long time and I'm very good at working with fabric and foam but I just don't have everything I need now
Why cant people just consult tutorials instead of doing stupid crap as shown on that instructibles place?


----------



## Dokid (Dec 22, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Hate it when peopl have everything they need then make it crappy
> I would LOVE to have the supplies and stuff but I don't and I have been planning this for a long time and I'm very good at working with fabric and foam but I just don't have everything I need now
> Why cant people just consult tutorials instead of doing stupid crap as shown on that instructibles place?



Because often people don't plan and think. I spent several years planning my fursuit. (mainly because I couldn't get one at the time and it was a way to pass the time) but anyways a lot of people are blinded by what I like to call "the proud parent problem". Where they won't want to hear about any flaws that they may have put in it or why they should try again or do something over.

If I made that....Oh god. I would hope one of my friends would say "uhh hey. That looks like a pile of scrap you just randomly glued on and then furred. Try again" and not let me take it outside.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 22, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Eyes should only really be made out of resin, glass (like taxidermy eyes), plastic, mesh, and foamies.
> 
> Also that the it's the only time that foamies are okay in a fursuit. I like them much better than the plastic bowl method.


i've seen the bowl meathod. seems like a waste of a perfectly good bowl.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 22, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Hate it when peopl have everything they need then make it crappy
> I would LOVE to have the supplies and stuff but I don't and I have been planning this for a long time and I'm very good at working with fabric and foam but I just don't have everything I need now
> Why cant people just consult tutorials instead of doing stupid crap as shown on that instructibles place?


i consult 8 different tutorials before i continue onto the next step. i'm so worried it's going to look like shit that sometimes i just kind of hit a block and don't work on it for a while.


----------



## Dokid (Dec 23, 2012)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> i've seen the bowl meathod. seems like a waste of a perfectly good bowl.




They make for really really nice clear plushie effect eyes. Like the plastic eyes you somtimes see on stuffed animals. They require a Dremel drill which I don't have.

Also WYH (that will forever be my nickname for you) try not to double post. It makes the mods angry. So instead just hit the "+ button next to reply with quote. Then when you're done hit the reply with quote and they'll all be there!


----------



## Wereling (Dec 23, 2012)

Dokid said:


> They make for really really nice clear plushie effect eyes. Like the plastic eyes you somtimes see on stuffed animals. They require a Dremel drill which I don't have.



I've seen plastic bowl eyes before and I've gotta say if you do it right it makes for a good looking eye (no pun intended)
TSebresos and Matrices both make really good eyes (TSbresos=follow me and Matrices=standard) but if you check out their tutorials you'll find it's pretty easy if you get the right bowl
And I tend to use a plain old drill or even my hot glue gun to melt a hole with the hot tip part


----------



## Dokid (Dec 23, 2012)

Wereling said:


> I've seen plastic bowl eyes before and I've gotta say if you do it right it makes for a good looking eye (no pun intended)
> TSebresos and Matrices both make really good eyes (TSbresos=follow me and Matrices=standard) but if you check out their tutorials you'll find it's pretty easy if you get the right bowl
> And I tend to use a plain old drill or even my hot glue gun to melt a hole with the hot tip part



They do but I also like the fact that foamies are a lot more flexible. So if I ever change my glasses (if they're bigger than the ones I have now) they'll be okay and I can change out the eyes easily.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 23, 2012)

I've never heard of foamies for eyes till now xD


----------



## Deo (Dec 24, 2012)

Tiamat said:


> EDIT: Just did an image search.



Oh lord, I tried the search because I need lulzfodder, and LOOK!
Skittle licking rats popped up on the first page of Google. You oldfags will remember that thread.





Edit: FUCK MY LIFE. Like three of my masks also pop up for that on page 7. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you furries goddamn goddamn.


----------



## Deo (Dec 24, 2012)

Deo said:


> Oh lord, I tried the search because I need lulzfodder, and LOOK!
> Skittle licking rats popped up on the first page of Google. You oldfags will remember that thread.
> 
> 
> ...



Edit 2: Fuck you all I hate you. My other suit is on page 8. What the HELL? I am so squicked by murrsuits and mother of god I would never own one, so why the fuck are all my suits popping up on Google for this shit? I mean SERIOUSLY? What the fucking hell man. What the fuck.


----------



## Monster. (Dec 24, 2012)

Deo said:


> Oh lord, I tried the search because I need lulzfodder, and LOOK!
> Skittle licking rats popped up on the first page of Google. You oldfags will remember that thread.


"Can never be unseen v.2"

My biggest issue with people who make suits is when they make digitigrade legs. Remember, guys, you're padding your legs to _appear_ digitigrade, not contorting your body. People try to walk funny in a suit [I swear I've seen it, I'm not even kidding] or they overpad so that where the "knee" should be looks like one big, round tumor.

Also, quads. Remember, you want this

Not this or this.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 24, 2012)

Monster. said:


> Also, quads. Remember, you want this
> 
> Not this or this.



 Also you DON'T want this Huskyton horror 
http://huskyton3.deviantart.com/art/What-chu-lookin-at-Vein-335061280


----------



## Monster. (Dec 24, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Also you DON'T want this Huskyton horror
> http://huskyton3.deviantart.com/art/What-chu-lookin-at-Vein-335061280


What the fuck did I just see


----------



## Wereling (Dec 24, 2012)

Monster. said:


> What"]http://huskyton3.deviantart.com/art/What-chu-lookin-at-Vein-335061280


What[/URL] the fuck did I just see[/QUOTE]

I think it's one of those hat/scarf/glove combos gone horribly wrong or a quadsuit gone EXTREMELY wrong
I choose the latter


----------



## RitsukaAo (Dec 24, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Also you DON'T want this Huskyton horror
> http://huskyton3.deviantart.com/art/What-chu-lookin-at-Vein-335061280



Lolwut? I'm still confused about what the hell that thing is. The blurry picture makes me think it's meant to be in some kind of low budget movie filmed in some creepy uncle's basement. *shudder*


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Dec 24, 2012)

RitsukaAo said:


> Lolwut? I'm still confused about what the hell that thing is. The blurry picture makes me think it's meant to be in some kind of low budget movie filmed in some creepy uncle's basement. *shudder*



I...think it's supposed to be a quadsuit of Vein, a monster from Darren Shan's Demonata series. Vein, IIRC, is supposed to look like a huge dog with an alligator head and feminine hands for feet.  (Image of a well-made sculpture here.)

What Vein is not supposed to look like, is a person wearing a mask made of lime green felt with some pieces of fur randomly applied to it and some halloween hands. 

Not to mention that going around on your hands and knees while wearing a head really isn't a quadsuit, as she claims that costume is.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 24, 2012)

Did Huskyton remove the image?


----------



## Dokid (Dec 24, 2012)

Wereling said:


> I've never heard of foamies for eyes till now xD



I've seen some amazing fursuits with them. Several makers do use them as well. I think designosaur does and she had the angry green husky, parrot tropical bird, a dog named Maine, as well as an otter.

So they look really nice and are really easy to work with compared to plastic.

Update:

I was curious about that other suit that huskyton made....She honestly just keeps making excuses instead of saying "Oh I see what you mean. I should probably re do this"



> okay so still not the best but it was late okay xD;Also fleece puff nose works or clay or silicone WHATEVER works but marker is a HUGE no. It can be used for placement, but otherwise... D:
> Any other questions? feel free to ask!



She answered with this



> The nose is not made out of marker just saying but BLACK SPRAY PAINT! The ears are supposed to look like that cuz she's supposed to look curious.And when I made the mesh eyes,my sharpie exploded.and I have no clue on how to make the eyebrows or neck fur,So I'd need a lil help on that part.But thank you anyways.



Remember guys. When someone takes their time out of their life to do a critique or a redline for you. Please take more than "lol I made mistakes and I don't want to fix them" from it.


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Dec 24, 2012)

Dokid said:


> Remember guys. When someone takes their time out of their life to do a critique or a redline for you. Please take more than "lol I made mistakes and I don't want to fix them" from it.



I've seen that quite a lot on suits where people ask for critique. 

People come up with points on what they need to do and the maker responds with something along the lines of 'Well I've done it now so I'm just going to keep working on the next step.' which sort of defeats the object of wanting crit in the first place.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 24, 2012)

I don't think Huskyton took of the pics just google Vein quadsuit and you can find more
But I saw in comments that she was offering to make fursuits for people -shudders- I REALLY dont wanna see any of her horrors walking around cons...


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Dec 24, 2012)

BahrgeistSmile said:


> I've seen that quite a lot on suits where people ask for critique.
> 
> People come up with points on what they need to do and the maker responds with something along the lines of 'Well I've done it now so I'm just going to keep working on the next step.' which sort of defeats the object of wanting crit in the first place.



What, don't they realize that fixing what people are telling them to is going to give them a better suit in the end? A building is only as good as its foundation and fursuits aren't much different, if you make a mistake during construction and refuse to correct it when some one points the mistake out it will come back and haunt you.



Wereling said:


> I don't think Huskyton took of the pics just google Vein quadsuit and you can find more
> But I saw in comments that she was offering to make fursuits for people  -shudders- I REALLY dont wanna see any of her horrors walking around  cons...



Hopefully no one will be dumb enough to take her up on her offer.


----------



## Monster. (Dec 24, 2012)

I think a rule of them with bad suit-makers is to give critique WHEN REQUESTED and if they don't like it, move on. There's no sense in wasting energy trying to get them to see the areas where improvement is needed.


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 24, 2012)

Dokid said:


> I've seen some amazing fursuits with them. Several makers do use them as well. I think designosaur does and she had the angry green husky, parrot tropical bird, a dog named Maine, as well as an otter.
> 
> So they look really nice and are really easy to work with compared to plastic.
> 
> ...


spraypaint is supposed to be better than marker? :v
and the making excuses of "oh well my pen exploded." that's a shame when that happens, but that means you have to replace the part or start all over if it's too the point of looking terrible. if your'e going to spend a lot of time on something, might as well do it right.


----------



## Tiamat (Dec 24, 2012)

Wereling said:


> I don't think Huskyton took of the pics just google Vein quadsuit and you can find more
> But I saw in comments that she was offering to make fursuits for people -shudders- I REALLY dont wanna see any of her horrors walking around cons...



Yeah I saw it now. Haha.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 24, 2012)

You guys all have EXCELLENT points but I'm lazy so I won't quote you
But yeah who the heck would even THINK of doing a marker nose?!? It's idiotic to even think "oh I'll just draw a nose on!" and she said "yeah I'll make the mask cheap" then she said to one person "it'll be free for you" people even comment on her suits like "that's amazing!" and stuff and I swear those people wouldn't know a good suit if it bit them in the butt and her art?!? Don't even get me started on that!most of it isn't even hers she just colored it in xD


----------



## Monster. (Dec 24, 2012)

It's still not as bad as the guy here on FAF that wanted to make his suit head out of fiberglass.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 24, 2012)

Oh geez did he go through with it?or did someone talk him out of it?


----------



## Monster. (Dec 25, 2012)

Wereling said:


> Oh geez did he go through with it?or did someone talk him out of it?


no idea, he raged, used the troll card, and ran off crying.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 25, 2012)

Lol!


----------



## Wereling (Dec 25, 2012)

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAVE A FURRY NEW YEAR!!!


----------



## Fay V (Dec 26, 2012)

Monster. said:


> "Can never be unseen v.2"
> 
> My biggest issue with people who make suits is when they make digitigrade legs. Remember, guys, you're padding your legs to _appear_ digitigrade, not contorting your body. People try to walk funny in a suit [I swear I've seen it, I'm not even kidding] or they overpad so that where the "knee" should be looks like one big, round tumor.
> 
> ...



I find it weird that Beastcub's wolf was used as the "make this" example, because honestly it doesn't look that good. I mean the padding on the back leg is doing that exact problem, as soon as this person moves it won't look very good. I loves like the leg padding is already sitting weird on the leg. 

Quad's are hard to do though. Beastcub can make a decent one, though they look weird when they move (due to the stilts). I'm seen two great quads in my life, and one of them was from a professional studio. The first is Beetlecat's Toby, and this really amazing realistic polar bear.


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 26, 2012)

Fay V said:


> I find it weird that Beastcub's wolf was used as the "make this" example, because honestly it doesn't look that good. I mean the padding on the back leg is doing that exact problem, as soon as this person moves it won't look very good. I loves like the leg padding is already sitting weird on the leg.
> 
> Quad's are hard to do though. Beastcub can make a decent one, though they look weird when they move (due to the stilts). I'm seen two great quads in my life, and one of them was from a professional studio. The first is Beetlecat's Toby, and this really amazing realistic polar bear.




Beastcub's first quad was decent and the quality is at the same level as another fusuiter...I can't remember her name, but she's from NZ and her suits look good on the outside, but on the inside had issues.


----------



## Fay V (Dec 26, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> Beastcub's first quad was decent and the quality is at the same level as another fusuiter...I can't remember her name, but she's from NZ and her suits look good on the outside, but on the inside had issues.


It isn't that I think Beastcub's work is awful or deserves to be on badfur or something. I just can't see it as a "aim for this" example. It isn't good enough for that. She has the same problem as all other quad builders save a handful, and that's having the animal look like it has a broken forearm. 
That wolf was just especially weird because the padding looks weird in that picture, standing still. 

I don't want to be a bitch, Beastcub has gotten better, especially recently. She's using cheap tricks less. But even on her best days shouldn't be the "you want to be this' top of the pile.


----------



## Ozriel (Dec 26, 2012)

Fay V said:


> It isn't that I think Beastcub's work is awful or deserves to be on badfur or something. I just can't see it as a "aim for this" example. It isn't good enough for that. She has the same problem as all other quad builders save a handful, and that's having the animal look like it has a broken forearm.
> That wolf was just especially weird because the padding looks weird in that picture, standing still.



No it doesn't, and I can say that at least. There's been a lot of anatomical errors when trying to recreate a realistic animal with some, but she does do great hoof creature suits and one of the better makers out there that can make them.



> I don't want to be a bitch, Beastcub has gotten better, especially recently. She's using cheap tricks less. But even on her best days shouldn't be the "you want to be this' top of the pile.



Last time I saw her work, or had to deal with her best work was in the Headless lounge at Anthrocon last year with repairs. Then again, I am biased.


----------



## RitsukaAo (Dec 26, 2012)

Monoyasha has done a pretty good Toothless quad and I think Beastcub has done nothing but improve with each new quad. Though I've never seen them irl, I'm impressed with the photos/videos on them.


----------



## Fay V (Dec 26, 2012)

Ozriel said:


> No it doesn't, and I can say that at least. There's been a lot of anatomical errors when trying to recreate a realistic animal with some, but she does do great hoof creature suits and one of the better makers out there that can make them.
> 
> Last time I saw her work, or had to deal with her best work was in the Headless lounge at Anthrocon last year with repairs. Then again, I am biased.





RitsukaAo said:


> Monoyasha has done a pretty good Toothless quad and I think Beastcub has done nothing but improve with each new quad. Though I've never seen them irl, I'm impressed with the photos/videos on them.



I am biased as well. My biggest issue with Beastcub has always been the cheap tricks she would pull. Fork prong eyelashes, paint on fur, shaving out chest padding. Her stuff can look lovely in a still picture, but up close it's just...meh and the reason it would bug me is the vast difference between her personal works and fan works. 
She has improved with quads, largely they were personal or for close family/friends. That bugs me endlessly. Still they are nice looking, just not the nicest. Not something where you go "hey, aim for this" because she's not that good yet. She's getting better, but isn't that good. 

And I will say, her commission work has improved a lot recently. She's made some nice pieces of great quality for customers so hopefully the great disparity in quality is behind her.


----------



## Wereling (Dec 28, 2012)

Who can guess what this quote is from?

In a world of locked doors the man with the key is king,and Honey you should see me in a crown 

Here's a bonus

That's what people DO!!!


----------



## Wa*Ya*Ha (Dec 28, 2012)

BahrgeistSmile said:


> I...think it's supposed to be a quadsuit of Vein, a monster from Darren Shan's Demonata series. Vein, IIRC, is supposed to look like a huge dog with an alligator head and feminine hands for feet.  (Image of a well-made sculpture here.)
> 
> What Vein is not supposed to look like, is a person wearing a mask made of lime green felt with some pieces of fur randomly applied to it and some halloween hands.
> 
> Not to mention that going around on your hands and knees while wearing a head really isn't a quadsuit, as she claims that costume is.


HOLY SNOT NO. NONONONO.. that...that thing is the freakiest thing i've ever seen. it's like the cat with hands...(youtube it! i'm drunk and lazy tonight --_--)

i'm going to have nightmares about that fucking gator/dog/woman thing.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 1, 2013)

Lol Im gonna have nightmares of being forced to wear one of Huskytons suits xD


----------



## LemonJayde (Jan 1, 2013)

idk guys.. idk. 
The force is not strong with this one.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 1, 2013)

@lemonjayde Let's try not to make this a Fuck yeah Durrsuit blog thread. I mean this also needs to have some good points so that it doesn't get shut down.

Anyways that suit would be better if it was made of either mink, fleece, or faux fur. Not fake sheep fabric. That and if it didn't have such a large overbite.


----------



## mirepoix (Jan 1, 2013)

I dislike yogurt cup eyes.  A flat, circular iris set into the mask with straight walls, like putting the bottom of a yogurt cup into the socket.  I know that it's an easy way to get follow-me-eyes, but it doesn't look great.  The illusion breaks down from a side view, and the 90 degree angle where the back meets the walls creates a really glaring shadow in the eye.  The best follow-me-eyes are made with a domed, concave piece of plastic, but I know that is hard to make without a vacuum former.  I'd much rather see beginning fursuit makers make very very good flat eyes instead of mediocre follow eyes.  Don't even get me started on halved ping pong balls or plastic palate wells.

Edit:  I'd hate to be a gossip, but I do have one thing to say about Beastcub:  She does the same circular eyes for a lot of her suits.  An example is the "Bernadette Hare" suit. The concept art had very "come hither" almond shaped eyes, but the suit had very toony circle eyes and large teeth.
I saw a video where she renovated her unicorn suit, and the front legs are a loooooot better.  There's a new joint closer to the hoof that makes a huge difference in the movement.  Let's be real here, guys:  How many decent quad suits are there, really?  The community is still learning how to make them well and still innovating.  I imagine in five years there will be a lot more awesome ones.

Edit2:  Changed my language to be less snarky


----------



## Dokid (Jan 1, 2013)

mirepoix said:


> I dislike yogurt cup eyes.  A flat, circular iris set into the mask with straight walls, like putting the bottom of a yogurt cup into the socket.  I know that it's an easy way to get follow-me-eyes, but it really looks like crap.  The illusion breaks down from a side view, and the 90 degree angle where the back meets the walls creates a really ugly shadow in the eye.  The best follow-me-eyes are made with a domed, concave piece of plastic, but I know that is hard to make without a vacuum former.  I'd much rather see beginning fursuit makers make very very good flat eyes instead of crappy follow eyes.  Don't even get me started on halved ping pong balls or plastic palate wells.
> 
> Edit:  I'd hate to be a gossip, but I do have one thing to say about Beastcub:  She does the same circular eyes for a lot of her suits.  An example is the "Bernadette Hare" suit. The concept art had very "come hither" almond shaped eyes, but the suit had very toony circle eyes and large teeth.
> I saw a video where she renovated her unicorn suit, and the front legs are a loooooot better.  There's a new joint closer to the hoof that makes a huge difference in the movement.  Let's be real here, guys:  How many decent quad suits are there, really?  The community is still learning how to make them well and still innovating.  I imagine in five years there will be a lot more awesome ones.



Have you seen her Arcanine suit? It's so amazing and it possibly her best quad yet.

[video=youtube;pKf6yZB-xQA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKf6yZB-xQA[/video]


----------



## mirepoix (Jan 1, 2013)

Dokid said:


> Have you seen her Arcanine suit? It's so amazing and it possibly her best quad yet.



It kinda has the classic "shipping tube legs," though.  I think her Gypsy Vanner Unicorn costume is the best so far.  This is just one girl developing this stuff, and I think the improvements she's made over time are really amazing.

[video=youtube;Rsz2eC8Busw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsz2eC8Busw[/video]


----------



## Dokid (Jan 1, 2013)

mirepoix said:


> It kinda has the classic "shipping tube legs," though.  I think her Gypsy Vanner Unicorn costume is the best so far.  This is just one girl developing this stuff, and I think the improvements she's made over time are really amazing.
> 
> [video=youtube;Rsz2eC8Busw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsz2eC8Busw[/video]




that one is also good. I love how she made the tail so flowing.

Anyways the what I love the most about both of these costumes is the fact she made joints so that they bend properly. With arcanine and the horse it's really obvious and probably makes it easier to walk in. 

I see what you mean about the tube legs bit it is based of of a pokemon. And to stick as close as possible to the character it does have somewhat thin front legs.


----------



## LemonJayde (Jan 1, 2013)

Dokid said:


> @lemonjayde Let's try not to make this a Fuck yeah Durrsuit blog thread. I mean this also needs to have some good points so that it doesn't get shut down.



Sorry, you're right. Anyway, I have a few.

-Disproportionate muzzles/ "The Box Muzzle" This can easily be avoided if you take time to carve or snip away foam and make it rounded. 
-Uneven eyes (I still struggle with this one ;n; )
-Lack of expression.
-bad anatomy. Cats that look like wolves. etcetc Use an anatomy reference pic, or lightly reference (I SAID LIGHTLY) from another suit maker.
-Opening commissions right after finishing their first suit. NONO


----------



## Dokid (Jan 1, 2013)

LemonJayde said:


> Sorry, you're right. Anyway, I have a few.
> 
> -Disproportionate muzzles/ "The Box Muzzle" This can easily be avoided if you take time to carve or snip away foam and make it rounded.
> -Uneven eyes (I still struggle with this one ;n; )
> ...



These are good points. What I really struggle with is sculpting the nose. I figured that I should go to something I'm used to working with. So my 2nd fursuit head will have a sculpy nose that I'm going to cover in black fleece possibly. 

Some other things that people can avoid doing is uneven ears. It doesn't look nice and it's really not that hard to re-adjust them.


----------



## LemonJayde (Jan 1, 2013)

Dokid said:


> What I really struggle with is sculpting the nose. I figured that I should go to something I'm used to working with. So my 2nd fursuit head will have a sculpy nose that I'm going to cover in black fleece possibly.



Yeah, on my last suit head it looked awkward. Right now I'm making a hyena so I am going for the disney-ish style and the nose is going to be a bit big. I made a block of foam and carved it into desired shape, covered it in fleece, and there we have it :>

Anyways, another point: foamies for the nose are a BIIGGGGG no. Please do not ever do that.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 1, 2013)

LemonJayde said:


> Yeah, on my last suit head it looked awkward. Right now I'm making a hyena so I am going for the disney-ish style and the nose is going to be a bit big. I made a block of foam and carved it into desired shape, covered it in fleece, and there we have it :>
> 
> Anyways, another point: foamies for the nose are a BIIGGGGG no. Please do not ever do that.



Of course not. That be silly. Plus I only use them for eyes. 

I have an aweful time carving noses out of foam but I'll give it another go possibly.


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Jan 1, 2013)

Wa*Ya*Ha said:


> HOLY SNOT NO. NONONONO.. that...that thing is the freakiest thing i've ever seen. it's like the cat with hands...(youtube it! i'm drunk and lazy tonight --_--)
> 
> i'm going to have nightmares about that fucking gator/dog/woman thing.



Glad to be of service.


Also, patterned fur is almost always bad. There are a FEW makers I've seen who have used it to good effect, usually in small areas, but generally it just looks really strange as the markings tend not to line up with the parts of the suit.


----------



## LemonJayde (Jan 1, 2013)

BahrgeistSmile said:


> Also, patterned fur is almost always bad. There are a FEW makers I've seen who have used it to good effect, usually in small areas, but generally it just looks really strange as the markings tend not to line up with the parts of the suit.



I think it depends on the pattern. If it's tiger stripes or tiny spots, then burn it. But if it's like a solid color with dapples of darker color, I should think it would be fine. I would avoid using it on muzzles though, because patterned fur on muzzles always looks bad.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 2, 2013)

Well I absolutely ADORE Beastcubs quads cause those are the first ones I saw
My faces of hers are her equestrian suits,her Arcanine suit and her wooly mammoth (so freaking cute)
But yeah Beastcub has been improving and I do like the legs with joints to make the legs move naturally instead of straight legged xD

Also some tips for making masks (I have gathered these from the Internet)
-take your time
It's no use to dump $100+ into a suit to have it look like crap in the end
-REFERENCE PICS
Need I say more?....yeah I probably should just make sure you keep plenty of pics with you while shaping the foam
-furring 
When furring make a diagram with tape to show what shapes you need to cut out for the furring process and add about a 1/2-1ins margin so you have room for small mistakes or for seams
-noses
Try to go for sculpy and don't be afraid to paint it a bit and remember REFERENE PICS
-footpaws
If youre doing sockpaws DON'T add a crap load of foam or it'll look bulky and if you wanted bulky you should've gone with shoe based paws
-eyes
Yeah just do flat eyes instead of yogurt container eyes or make EM out of a bowl for follow me
-maker reference
Don't be afraid to go off of other makers work (don't make them look exactly like theirs unless you ask but just use their construction tips and such) but try to be original 
Well I think that's all I got xD now back to slamming crap suits (lol jk)


----------



## Dokid (Jan 2, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Well I absolutely ADORE Beastcubs quads cause those are the first ones I saw
> My faces of hers are her equestrian suits,her Arcanine suit and her wooly mammoth (so freaking cute)
> But yeah Beastcub has been improving and I do like the legs with joints to make the legs move naturally instead of straight legged xD
> 
> ...



Also do not use white masking tape on white foam....It sticks terribly and will ruin it. That happened with my first one and I was devastated.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 2, 2013)

Dokid said:


> Also do not use white masking tape on white foam....It sticks terribly and will ruin it. That happened with my first one and I was devastated.


Yeah for my mini masks ive made(2 small ones for a drawing mannequin and 1 the size of a softball made of furscraps) I used platic wrap then taped with regular tape over it and it came off super easily so maybe PPL could try that


----------



## Dokid (Jan 2, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Yeah for me mini mask ive made I used platic wrap then taped with regular tape over it and it came off super easily so maybe PPL could try that



That cheap packaging tape that is a brownish color also works really well I heard.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 2, 2013)

I used to use that but I didn't like it xD (just for fabric diagram stuff)

And I REALLY gotta stop reading this board it's giving me fears of making horrible masks in the future xD


----------



## Day Coydog (Jan 2, 2013)

To be honest, I have only made two mistakes so far while making my fursuit:
1. I used craft fur for my handpaws and felt for the pads.
2. While sewing one of the arms I got a little excited and did it waayyy to quickly and ended up sewing both peices fur-down, so I had to take out every last stich (took about 3 days to get them out).


----------



## Wereling (Jan 3, 2013)

Well to piss all you geeks out there (like myself) have this stupid STUPID idiot's view on The Lord of The Rings and stuffhttp://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154474_10151287468356358_251057622_n.jpgENJOY


----------



## Dokid (Jan 3, 2013)

Day Coydog said:


> To be honest, I have only made two mistakes so far while making my fursuit:
> 1. I used craft fur for my handpaws and felt for the pads.
> 2. While sewing one of the arms I got a little excited and did it waayyy to quickly and ended up sewing both peices fur-down, so I had to take out every last stich (took about 3 days to get them out).



Everyone makes their mistakes. Even professionals! I remember when I sewed and cut my handpaws in the wrong direction. They looked nice. But the fur was going to wrong way and didn't match the arms.



Wereling said:


> Well to piss all you geeks out there (like myself) have this stupid STUPID idiot's view on The Lord of The Rings and stuffhttp://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154474_10151287468356358_251057622_n.jpgENJOY



As funny as that was. It belongs more in the you laugh you lose thread. :/ Sorry wereling. 

I want to keep this thread going though and if we get off topic the mods will lock it.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 3, 2013)

AHHH IM SORRY I'LL GET BACK TO THE CURRENT TOPIC!!!!
Fursuit tips this fursuit tips that
So yeah you guys gotta be careful when sewing/cutting fur you just gotta keep rechecking and before you start pressing down the pedal,check once more the see the fur is in the right direction and that the fabric is the way u want it

Also I have a question
For my gloves should I make the fur go up towards my head or down towards the ground (the fur going towards the top of the sleeve or to the claws) I'm thinking going towards my head would be the best but I'm not sure what to do


----------



## RadioactiveRedFox (Jan 3, 2013)

Wereling said:


> AHHH IM SORRY I'LL GET BACK TO THE CURRENT TOPIC!!!!
> Fursuit tips this fursuit tips that
> So yeah you guys gotta be careful when sewing/cutting fur you just gotta keep rechecking and before you start pressing down the pedal,check once more the see the fur is in the right direction and that the fabric is the way u want it
> 
> ...



I think the fur direction is usually down the arm, other wise the fur on the arm would oppose the fur on your body.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 3, 2013)

I just think it'd look weird with the fur going over the claws but that just might be me thinking weird xD


----------



## Dokid (Jan 3, 2013)

Wereling said:


> AHHH IM SORRY I'LL GET BACK TO THE CURRENT TOPIC!!!!
> Fursuit tips this fursuit tips that
> So yeah you guys gotta be careful when sewing/cutting fur you just gotta keep rechecking and before you start pressing down the pedal,check once more the see the fur is in the right direction and that the fabric is the way u want it
> 
> ...



I like it going down towards your fingers. But sadly I made the hands going towards my head for fur direction. >.>

Also if you look on a dog or cat it's also how their fur direction goes.


----------



## Rage the mut (Jan 3, 2013)

omg I absolutely hate head that look like they came from minecraft! also another problem is when the fur suddenly gets back to full length on top of the head in between the ears so it goes from really short to really long without a smooth transition....


----------



## Rage the mut (Jan 3, 2013)

Deo said:


> HA HA HA HA
> 
> More people refuse critique than I can count. Have I ever met someone... oh lawdy that's funny. No, most people are horrendously offended that I would dare tell them that their _masterpiece_ has even the smallest of flaws, even if it is an abomination that needs to be lit on fire.


maybe haters need to hate...


----------



## Wereling (Jan 4, 2013)

Yeah I just wasn't too sure on the fur direction xD but thanks u guys!


----------



## Wereling (Jan 11, 2013)

Another First suit problem is hot glueing noses on
That's a big no no especially if you need to get it off
If you make your own nose put a little wire bar in the back so you can sew it on (check Matrices for other tips)
Also if you glue your claws a little goes a long way if you put it on right and make sure you part the fur so it looks a bit better and so you won't be able to see hotglue overflow


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

I want to say I am applaud at ALL of you making FUN of a teenager, this young one started off making these masks and has improved over time. This was her *1st Mask* and she has learned how to correct her past mistakes. It is called a LEARNING PROCESS!!! 

Why in the world would any of you bash her for her 1st attempt at making a mask? Instead of bashing her WHY not *ENCOURAGE her and HELP her* by letting her know what to do to make them *better*!!!

I am insulted at how CHILDISH you all are being!!! This is called BULLYING and you all should be ASHAMED of yourselves... 

Educate her, Don't break her spirit... 





Wereling said:


> https://d.facdn.net/art/huskyton3/1336529210.huskyton3_dagger_the_wolf_fursuit_head.jpg
> This is the worst mask I've ever seen and it has tons of problems
> 1.the nose is DRAWN onto the fur so it looks like a spot of different colored fur
> 2.the ears are just 1 piece of 1/2 in foam with fur so they have no shape to them
> ...


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

After reading thru these postings it seems you have some sort of problem with Huskyton 3. It sounds as if you are just being a bully and picking on a teenager.. Maybe you should take a look at yourself and ask Why am I picking on this person? Again, EDUCATE instead of throwing out HATRED!!!



Wereling said:


> What's worse than one mask made by Huskyton? THREE masks made by Huskyton and looking as bad as Dagger


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

Really? Wow, Where is the EDUCATION here... STOP Bashing these kids and EDUCATE THEM!!! Bullying them is not the ANSWER here!!! 



Wereling said:


> Also you DON'T want this Huskyton horror
> http://huskyton3.deviantart.com/art/What-chu-lookin-at-Vein-335061280


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

I am certain all of you were once a 1st time maker, and you all made many mistakes before getting to where you are now CORRECT? Give this teenager a break and educate her, don't throw hatred into this with your words... Be positive and Help these young children today...


----------



## Dokid (Jan 14, 2013)

KerriBear69 said:


> I want to say I am applaud at ALL of you making FUN of a teenager, this young one started off making these masks and has improved over time. This was her *1st Mask* and she has learned how to correct her past mistakes. It is called a LEARNING PROCESS!!!
> 
> Why in the world would any of you bash her for her 1st attempt at making a mask? Instead of bashing her WHY not *ENCOURAGE her and HELP her* by letting her know what to do to make them *better*!!!
> 
> ...



We did. Although wereling was a little rude we still gave valid points on what could be fixed and improved. This isn't bullying at all. This was also not her first mask.



KerriBear69 said:


> Really? Wow, Where is the EDUCATION here... STOP Bashing these kids and EDUCATE THEM!!! Bullying them is not the ANSWER here!!!



Stop using a bunch of exclaimation marks. If you look past the few rude posts (which you're bound to get on any online community) and actually look at the other parts you will find many good tips and info. As well as other things like what not to use for materials.



KerriBear69 said:


> I am certain all of you were once a 1st time maker, and you all made many mistakes before getting to where you are now CORRECT? Give this teenager a break and educate her, don't throw hatred into this with your words... Be positive and Help these young children today...



Yes. We all made derp suits at one point. We all have made some derpy looking stupid costume that we are all ashamed of but still took some experience out of. Like I said, people are being positive and adding good useful points. We are not going to, however, coddle and baby first time makers by sparring their feelings. There is always going to be one person here who will basically say "burn it in fire". 

We don't have to "help these young children today" as you said but we are simply showing off examples of what not to make and what is a good example to use.


----------



## Ozriel (Jan 14, 2013)

KerriBear69 said:


> I am certain all of you were once a 1st time maker, and you all made many mistakes before getting to where you are now CORRECT? Give this teenager a break and educate her, don't throw hatred into this with your words... Be positive and Help these young children today...



Please do not...quad post.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 14, 2013)

You can get a warning by triple posting but QUAD posting? That's just evil and I've been reprimanded about the double posting and up so you probably should take some post advice from Orzriel and Dokid (they helped me too xD)
I'm sorry I was rude I dont mean to be but 
1.Huskyton isn't here so how can we help her here?
And
2.this is her third mask I'm pretty sure and it looks worse than her first 

I've never made a mask before I made a few small prototypes out if scrap fur and foam and I gotta say for y first fur things they're pretty well made.I even made teeth and I finished the mouths on them and they looked better than Huskytons.I'll try to get some pics for critique on here soon
Also....THIS IS GONNA SOUND SO DANG NOOB. Even though I've gotten some answers from people already I really wanna do this for my first suit.....is it okay to buy fur from Hancock fabrics?I went yesterday with my mom to get fleece for making blankets and I went to the fur section and felt the fur,I LOVE how soft it is and it's cheaper than online so would it be alright for a first suit?
It was about $20 a yard and I get coupons in the mail alot so it'll go down even more.
Keep in mind this isn't Jo-Anns fun fur that doesn't have any fluff to it it's more like one that could be bought online that's fluffier
Well since I've already asked a question I'll give a few tips
-for foam look at some thrift stores.I just went to one and found rolls of it for really cheap (I also saw a fake tiger head wall mount that I'm
Convinced is a fursuit mask...)
-when dry brushing (if you do) water down your paint and use small amounts at a time and keep it fluffed.DONT do a lot of layers of paint or it'll get crusty and keep a wire pet brush to keep the strands separate
Also on light furs you can use markers. It keeps the fur soft and makes nice colors


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

Dokid said:


> We did. Although wereling was a little rude we still gave valid points on what could be fixed and improved. This isn't bullying at all. This was also not her first mask.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



***This ORIGINAL Posting was in response to her 1st Mask.***

***Tips are Great but I am asking you to STOP using MEAN WORDS. She is a child for criminy sake..***

***Not HELP these young children??? Are you kidding me? If we do not help the children today, where is our or their future? Did we not ALL have people HELP US in our lives as kids??? We did NOT all get to where we are today in life with out Some Sort of HELP by someone.***

Sorry for Quad posting!!


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

Thank you Wereling for offering that info for the children TRYING to LEARN more...


----------



## Wereling (Jan 14, 2013)

KerriBear69 said:


> Thank you Wereling for offering that info for the children TRYING to LEARN more...



well that's what this board is for
And that's why I posted the Huskyton and roasted it to show exacty what NOT to do.(again not trying to be mean)
One more tip that just popped into my head
-after wearing your suit spray disinfectant (a small amount) into the mask and AIR out before putting away and while in storage you could even put some dryer sheets in to help it smell fresh and brush out the fur to get rid of any dirt that could've gotten on the fur.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 14, 2013)

KerriBear69 said:


> ***This ORIGINAL Posting was in response to her 1st Mask.***
> 
> ***Tips are Great but I am asking you to STOP using MEAN WORDS. She is a child for criminy sake..***
> 
> ...



You're taking this much too seriously. Let me guess, you're a parent who has a child and feels that this is horrible how people can be on the internet. Well let me tell you that not everyone on here is going to be a bucket of sunshine. If you lurked more then you'd know this. 

Mean words are everywhere. This is the internet. There are mean words thrown about everywhere. I'm sorry if that offended you or the girl but that's just what happens. Why am I apologizing  I shouldn't be. When you put something on the internet you openly allow people to judge it. Which means those "mean words" will probably appear. No matter what you do unless you don't allow comments at all. 

I myself can be considered a "child" and if I made something like that I wouldn't go on to make more mistakes. I would openly accept any critique with open arms. When I made my first head I went everywhere and asked for red lines and critiques. I looked and researched what I needed to do. I still made mistakes and made a somewhat derp suit but I learned. 

This girl did not learn from her past mistakes. This is a fandom. Not some parenting group. building fursuits is not an essential life skill.


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

Great TIPS and Thank you again. I personally do not like bullying of any sort, towards anything or anyone.
I hope the young kids of our generation can thrive from our education to make this world a Better place for the 
future ones...

Like I said before, we need to use our knowledge to Teach them...


----------



## Dokid (Jan 14, 2013)

Wereling said:


> well that's what this board is for
> And that's why I posted the Huskyton and roasted it to show exacty what NOT to do.(again not trying to be mean)
> One more tip that just popped into my head
> -after wearing your suit spray disinfectant (a small amount) into the mask and AIR out before putting away and while in storage you could even put some dryer sheets in to help it smell fresh and brush out the fur to get rid of any dirt that could've gotten on the fur.



Make sure it's something like endbac or the *anti-microbial *fabreeze. That way it is sure to get rid of the germs.



KerriBear69 said:


> Great TIPS and Thank you again. I personally do not like bullying of any sort, towards anything or anyone.
> I hope the young kids of our generation can thrive from our education to make this world a Better place for the
> future ones...
> 
> Like I said before, we need to use our knowledge to Teach them...



I repeat, we....are....not...a...parenting....group.  There is a lot of info going around about how to make fursuits. Heck there's so many of them in the livejournal memories section.


----------



## KerriBear69 (Jan 14, 2013)

Dokid said:


> You're taking this much too seriously. Let me guess, you're a parent who has a child and feels that this is horrible how people can be on the internet. Well let me tell you that not everyone on here is going to be a bucket of sunshine. If you lurked more then you'd know this.
> 
> Mean words are everywhere. This is the internet. There are mean words thrown about everywhere. I'm sorry if that offended you or the girl but that's just what happens. Why am I apologizing  I shouldn't be. When you put something on the internet you openly allow people to judge it. Which means those "mean words" will probably appear. No matter what you do unless you don't allow comments at all.
> 
> ...



No kidding Mean words are EVERYWHERE WHY the heck do you think our world is in such a mess.
Yes I am a parent and I feel Kindness goes FURTHER than MEANNESS... 
Apparently some were raised differently! I am a educator and see that educating goes a lot further then bullying!

I understand this is a OPEN PUBLIC forum, have used them for many years but You, Dokid are using this as a excuse to be mean with your words. 
Using forums such as this one, should be about sharing and educating others so THEY can become BETTER at making suits or heads. Not being mean to a child.

I can Only hope that others see this as a lesson learned and will HELP the children of the future.

Thank you again Wereling for being HELPFUL.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 14, 2013)

KerriBear69 said:


> No kidding Mean words are EVERYWHERE WHY the heck do you think our world is in such a mess.
> Yes I am a parent and I feel Kindness goes FURTHER than MEANNESS...
> Apparently some were raised differently! I am a educator and see that educating goes a lot further then bullying!
> 
> ...



Excuse me, but I'm being civil here. I haven't posted a single word that would considered to be "mean words" in this thread or pretty much anywhere. I don't see any real bullying other than the occasional post that Toshabi or Brazen does. I believe that you should treat others the way you want to be treated. So if you even bothered to look at my past posts you would see that I do follow my own rule. *In fact I have even told other's to be less harsh towards others. *

So you can get off your high and mighty horse and post something useful in this thread other than saying how I've been mean to others when I obviously haven't.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 15, 2013)

Dokid you are a wise and noble furry and I hope to meet you one day in the real world so some of your furry wisdom may rub off on me......
YAY IM BEING HELPFUL!! It's a strange feeling......
OOH OOH MORE TIPS IN MY HEAD!!!!
-make the eyes even and not deathy scary.add a white dot on the iris to make it look like a reflection of the light (look at peoples drawings of things with eyes.They usually do that to make the eyes look not so freaky)
-VENTALATE!!!(whoa I typed that in a Dalek voice xD) when making a head it's best to make a hole and the mouth partially open so you can breath/drink (carry a flexible straw tube thing or have your handler carry it+a water bottle for quick hydration) or even wear a nice cold camel-pak and thread the straw into your mask.it'll keep you cool and hydrated so you don't die of dehydration or heat stroke
-take a break every 30-45 mins or so if you start to feel dizzy GET TO THE HEADLESS LOUNGE if you're at a con ASAP or if you get a headache because those are signs of dehydration/heat stroke
-take it easy on the dance floor at cons 1.it can get hot really fast in your suit 2.be aware of the furs around you so you don't bust a move right into someone and you both get hurt 
Well I think my helpfulness is depleatef now...BACK TO THRASHING BAD MASKS


----------



## Dokid (Jan 15, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Dokid you are a wise and noble furry and I hope to meet you one day in the real world so some of your furry wisdom may rub off on me......
> YAY IM BEING HELPFUL!! It's a strange feeling......
> OOH OOH MORE TIPS IN MY HEAD!!!!
> -make the eyes even and not deathy scary.add a white dot on the iris to make it look like a reflection of the light (look at peoples drawings of things with eyes.They usually do that to make the eyes look not so freaky)
> ...



Although this is more for fursuit care than creating, but FayV has a nice fursuit handling guide. Also Kitty and Monster sells fursuit handler t-shirts that are pretty nice.

Oh and yeah remember to take it easy the first time you go out in any new fursuit. You don't quite know your limits yet and it could be dangerous. Especially if you're alone.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 15, 2013)

I'll get a handler Tee for my handler to wear


----------



## Chinona (Jan 15, 2013)

Man today I got the fur and foam for making my fursuit... and decided to come on here see if there were any new tutorials when I saw this.... WOW.  Dear gods don't let me end being a 'not' example. lol.  Granted I'm going hard core and dragged over my life cast from my films prosthetics course and am working on sculpting the face and making a basic resin mask rather than a foam one because my head and body are just too small for a foam head...so there will likely be a few fail attempts at it before am actually happy and willing to post images of the head... Hopefully not more than one 'frak!  I failed!' learning experience though but I do have a fair bit of costume construction under my belt.

I think one thing I've found working with fur (I've never made a fur suit but have done a lot of spirit hoods and ears and tails) is marking on the back of the fur itself which direction the fur is going that way I can't screw it up as easily if I'm trying to fit pattern pieces in in the most economical way.  This has saved me several time for 'spirit hoods' and their matching outfits... And considering the plans for the fursuit I can certainly see it coming in handy again.  I also have the pattern pieces marked generally for fur direction which helps as well with the fur itself being marked.

I also find it interesting how airbrushing is considered a cheap trick... I've done a fair amount of it... and I've never had it come out 'gobby' most often it looks better than cut stripes that are sewn in so is there generally a reason that it's considered a cheap trick?  Or is it more a personal preference/ saw a bad job done and that was the opinion is based solely on?  I only ask because that IS the plan for the markings on my fur suit, and I know I use a style (after having looked) that is incredibly similar to Beastcubs airbrushing style... though I use a higher grade airbrush that really does not gobm I use to have a very similar airbrush to her when my parents wanted me to learn and it did occasionally gob like... well several curses strung together.  I do believe even Clockwork does airbrushing.... unless I've missed a guess looking at some of those pieces in the gallery of theirs?


----------



## Ozriel (Jan 15, 2013)

Chinona said:


> Man today I got the fur and foam for making my fursuit... and decided to come on here see if there were any new tutorials when I saw this.... WOW.  Dear gods don't let me end being a 'not' example. lol.  Granted I'm going hard core and dragged over my life cast from my films prosthetics course and am working on sculpting the face and making a basic resin mask rather than a foam one because my head and body are just too small for a foam head...so there will likely be a few fail attempts at it before am actually happy and willing to post images of the head... Hopefully not more than one 'frak!  I failed!' learning experience though but I do have a fair bit of costume construction under my belt.
> 
> I think one thing I've found working with fur (I've never made a fur suit but have done a lot of spirit hoods and ears and tails) is marking on the back of the fur itself which direction the fur is going that way I can't screw it up as easily if I'm trying to fit pattern pieces in in the most economical way.  This has saved me several time for 'spirit hoods' and their matching outfits... And considering the plans for the fursuit I can certainly see it coming in handy again.  I also have the pattern pieces marked generally for fur direction which helps as well with the fur itself being marked.
> 
> I also find it interesting how airbrushing is considered a cheap trick... I've done a fair amount of it... and I've never had it come out 'gobby' most often it looks better than cut stripes that are sewn in so is there generally a reason that it's considered a cheap trick?  Or is it more a personal preference/ saw a bad job done and that was the opinion is based solely on?  I only ask because that IS the plan for the markings on my fur suit, and I know I use a style (after having looked) that is incredibly similar to Beastcubs airbrushing style... though I use a higher grade airbrush that really does not gobm I use to have a very similar airbrush to her when my parents wanted me to learn and it did occasionally gob like... well several curses strung together.  I do believe even Clockwork does airbrushing.... unless I've missed a guess looking at some of those pieces in the gallery of theirs?



It also depends on the paint you use. Some people do not use paints for fabrics or made for airbrushing like Createx. others use cheap Tempura or Acrylic paints that gob and clog the airbrush. 

Then there's spray-paint....


----------



## Deo (Jan 15, 2013)

KerriBear69, please fuck off. 
We're not bullies and trolls, we just happen to be people with eyes who happen to also be honest. For these unfortunate fursuit horrors that means we posted them as examples of what NOT to do, because anyone can clearly see terrible things have gone terribly wrong on them and that it's only honest to face up to the fact that shit is shit. I encourage people to grow, practice, and learn, but I will not asspat people. Lying to people by omitting the obvious truths of their work only cripples their artistic progress, that is why BRUTAL critique is a fundamental part of any type of artistic training.

Also educators get paid. We're not here to babysit young artists trying to learn how to make fursuits. We're not here to hold their hands and give them gold stars for "at least you tried". If we give critique we are giving them our valuable time, effort, energies, and experience for FREE. So don't harp and bitch about EDUCATE when we already do so above and beyond. Fuck you for so casually undervaluing our time and experience that you bitch about what we say and disregard our input so snottily. And since you are so rude to us I will go further and be rude to you by pointing out that if you really are an educator then YOU are the root of evil in our education system that molly coddles and babies children and young adults leaving them feeble and ill-prepared for the real world. Here at FAF we especially pound this in, WE WILL NOT MOLLY CODDLE NEW FURSUIT MAKERS OR NEW ARTISTS. THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO TEACH ART. And believe me when I say we are goddamn saintly compared to real-world art professors.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 15, 2013)

Chinona said:


> I also find it interesting how airbrushing is considered a cheap trick... I've done a fair amount of it... and I've never had it come out 'gobby' most often it looks better than cut stripes that are sewn in so is there generally a reason that it's considered a cheap trick?  Or is it more a personal preference/ saw a bad job done and that was the opinion is based solely on?  I only ask because that IS the plan for the markings on my fur suit, and I know I use a style (after having looked) that is incredibly similar to Beastcubs airbrushing style... though I use a higher grade airbrush that really does not gobm I use to have a very similar airbrush to her when my parents wanted me to learn and it did occasionally gob like... well several curses strung together.  I do believe even Clockwork does airbrushing.... unless I've missed a guess looking at some of those pieces in the gallery of theirs?



Actually it depends on the paint that you use. If you use paint that is good on fabrics and doesn't glob up then as long as you're good with it and know what you're doing then go right ahead. I know beetlecat uses a ton of airbrushing and it comes out gorgeous. 

I personally don't like how airbrushing gives it a "stiffer" feel to fur. So I don't like using it much. I find it kind of funny how often Beastcub appears in this thread. I pretty much consider most of her suits decent but nothing overly special. 

You'll find that airbrushing is used mostly with realistic fursuits.


----------



## Chinona (Jan 15, 2013)

Dokid said:


> Actually it depends on the paint that you use. If you use paint that is good on fabrics and doesn't glob up then as long as you're good with it and know what you're doing then go right ahead. I know beetlecat uses a ton of airbrushing and it comes out gorgeous.
> 
> I personally don't like how airbrushing gives it a "stiffer" feel to fur. So I don't like using it much. I find it kind of funny how often Beastcub appears in this thread. I pretty much consider most of her suits decent but nothing overly special.
> 
> You'll find that airbrushing is used mostly with realistic fursuits.




I know I've used Createx Automotive on fur plenty of times before,  generally afterwards I really beat it up and put it through a slicker brush to get it back to the 'soft fur' type feel... it's not 100% back but it's really nice I find, without it yeah it's like hardened bits of fiberglass resin and right nasty...  And the fur suit I am going for is very realistic... IF I can pull it off;  because as a former costumer, I don't do things little, I have already attempted to figure out how to fully articulate tail (It is actually going to be the first thing I start building and I need to get the supplies for the articulation in the next few days or so), I am planning a moving jaw on a custom resin base, follow me LED eyes digigrade legs.  Of all the things I"m worried about the most is the head... 

I've also found the automotive stuff is just fine for washing as well (and not on fur being tossed in the drier - the fur frazzles... the paint stayed perfect *if anything it gets even softer* lol made that mistake once with a LARP costume tail which I managed to salvage only the poly stuffing from however my CATS costume survived the washer and drier 3 times with no ill effects to the paint job)


I can understand people that know how to do fursuits thinking her stuff is nothing overly special... but as a first time, I think setting my sights on her current state of quality, is a rather ambitious but attainable goal for a first time fur suit builder considering the background I do have... I mean I could aim instead for Clockworks quality level but I honestly don't think I could come close to their quality but in truth I would LOVE for it to turn out that good but it won't and I don't want to have to utterly crush myself should I fail.  I would have to bust out drama llama style for at least a day at home  flinging myself around, possibly with wine, and being all melodramatic and posing horribly fist in the air cursing what ever furry-gods were listening about how horrid I did.  It could make for a good Youtube show... but I have better things to do with a whole day and I don't like wine. [/tangent]


----------



## Wereling (Jan 16, 2013)

I think airbrush is considered cheap because it wears off over time compared to sewage the markings in
But frankly I think the look you get from airbrushing is rather cool and I would like to see some more permanent paints going on fur
PS cant wait to see ur suit Chinona


----------



## PapayaShark (Jan 16, 2013)

Wait...KerriBear69 is a parent? I first though s/he was like 12 or a manchild :I Sure sounded like that from all the immature posts and the inability to use the edit and multiquote buttons. 
And the internet is a horrible place full of people who couldn't give less of a shit about you and your feelings. If you can't handle negativity, please gtfo.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 16, 2013)

Wereling said:


> I think airbrush is considered cheap because it wears off over time compared to sewage the markings in
> But frankly I think the look you get from airbrushing is rather cool and I would like to see some more permanent paints going on fur
> PS cant wait to see ur suit Chinona



Actually any paint will fade over time. But that's the price you pay for airbrushing in general. It's like washing your favorite shirt. If it's print screened on then it'll fade over time.

I love how you can get super nice gradients with airbrushed fur. Without the cost of the hyper realistic faux fur.



PapayaShark said:


> Wait...KerriBear69 is a parent? I first though s/he was like 12 or a manchild :I Sure sounded like that from all the immature posts and the inability to use the edit and multiquote buttons.
> And the internet is a horrible place full of people who couldn't give less of a shit about you and your feelings. If you can't handle negativity, please gtfo.



Actually I guessed she was a parent....Most adults who are on the internet (adults as in people in their 40's-50's) type like that. It also doesn't help that she tried talking to us like we were five.

Anyways the internet has it's place. If she wants a hugbox i'd tell her to go sign up for a webkinz account or something. My little sister complained the other day because she couldn't call someone stupid the other day since it won't let her type in anything. You have to pick a response that they've predetermined to be alright. Which in that case it would be her version of the "perfect" internet.


----------



## Ozriel (Jan 16, 2013)

Wereling said:


> I think airbrush is considered cheap because it wears off over time compared to sewage the markings in




it depends on the paint. 

I've met a few people that complained about the markings they airbrushed on, when in fact they used India Ink. Even the waterproof kind does not bond well with the Acrylic material so it runs and fades. 

There's also the hobby paints used for glass and tye-dye that people use as a cheap alternative that runs and fades fast.

Artist's acrylics like Liquitex have minerals in it so it doesn't bond that well and often creates a sticky mat when on certain furs, like the DF shag and mendel's punky. it bonds okay with the MM fur, but it leaves a sticky mess which you have to wash.

And many furs who want markings often dry-brush a straight paint onto the fur and do no brush it out...which creates "globs" of dried paint on the fur.

Airbrushing takes patience and being precise with the way you put it on and brushing between layers of paint to prevent globbing and such.


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Jan 16, 2013)

That sort of 'never criticize' attitude cost me dearly when I was a teenager. The art teacher would never tell people they were doing things badly, so people would get poor grades and have no idea how to improve. 

I had no idea how to improve. 

It was only when I took outside classes with a teacher who would react to things with gems like "Jesus christ what is that?!" that I actually felt like I was being taught, rather than just bumbling about by myself producing crap. 

Fursuiting takes a lot of work, but in that way, from my limited experience it isn't to do with age and more to do with knuckling down and spending lots of time and money on research, materials, sculpting, cutting and sewing. The quality of the end result is usually proportionate to how much time and effort was put in. I've come across makers in their teens who produce awesome work, and people considerably older than I am who make things that look like decomposed roadkill bent over a foam block. 

There's a wealth of help and information out there for makers who look, and from looking at Huskyton's dA, the people who've offered up help have largely been ignored and not thanked for their time. Those who submit to fursuit groups, and set themselves up as a 'studio' that makes costumes for others, but don't care to listen to what other makers say, are setting themselves up for disapproval. 

Not to forget that badly made suits can also be pretty unsafe. Making a derpy drawing or wonky model is one thing, but making a bad suit for someone else could result in someone getting hurt.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 16, 2013)

Yeah sometimes derpsuits have next to no ventilation and can result in heat stroke if ur not careful 
Or maybe PPL swarming and being all "WHAT IN THE BAME OF SANITY HAVE YOU GOT ON YOUR HEAD?!?"


----------



## Ozriel (Jan 16, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Yeah sometimes derpsuits have next to no ventilation and can result in heat stroke if ur not careful
> Or maybe PPL swarming and being all "WHAT IN THE BAME OF SANITY HAVE YOU GOT ON YOUR HEAD?!?"



Or your range of vision is constricted so much that wearing it makes it an insurance claim in waiting.

The way I see it, you have two sides of the fursuiting spectrum regarding critique; Those that take it in stride, no matter how constructive or destructive it is, and those who get bent out of shape with criticism Period.

When I started doing suits, I wish I had criticism...Over the years I've took outside opinion with a grain of salt and made adjustments, researched techniques, and learned to pay more attention to angles while looking at references.


----------



## Chinona (Jan 16, 2013)

HA!  I have figured out the multiquote!


Wereling said:


> I think airbrush is considered cheap because it wears off over time compared to sewage the markings in
> But frankly I think the look you get from airbrushing is rather cool and I would like to see some more permanent paints going on fur
> PS cant wait to see ur suit Chinona


Thanks!


Ozriel said:


> it depends on the paint.
> 
> I've met a few people that complained about the markings they airbrushed on, when in fact they used India Ink. Even the waterproof kind does not bond well with the Acrylic material so it runs and fades.
> 
> ...


Ohhh okay so this makes me feel much better about the 'I'm going to be airbrushing' bit... I have the precision and patience and the supplies to do a good job rather than a sloppy one... And the way I take care of my other costumes, it should be a while before I need to rework the airbrushing


----------



## YuPuffin (Jan 16, 2013)

Ozriel said:


> it depends on the paint.
> 
> I've met a few people that complained about the markings they airbrushed on, when in fact they used India Ink. Even the waterproof kind does not bond well with the Acrylic material so it runs and fades.
> 
> ...




What kind of acrylic paint would you recommend using? I might be painting on markings using acrylics for sometime in the future, but I haven't painted a fursuit before. My paints say Reeves on them, but I've only used them for actual paintings before and I don't want to use them if they're going to ruin the fursuit.

EDIT: I looked around a little more and it looks like generally watered-down artist-quality acrylics will work, but please still mention if you've had any particularly bad experiences with a certain kind of paint... |D


----------



## Chinona (Jan 17, 2013)

YuPuffin said:


> What kind of acrylic paint would you recommend using? I might be painting on markings using acrylics for sometime in the future, but I haven't painted a fursuit before. My paints say Reeves on them, but I've only used them for actual paintings before and I don't want to use them if they're going to ruin the fursuit.
> 
> EDIT: I looked around a little more and it looks like generally watered-down artist-quality acrylics will work, but please still mention if you've had any particularly bad experiences with a certain kind of paint... |D



I might be new at suit building, but I do know that the Createx Automtive Airbrush paint CAN be applied with a brush to faux fur as well as airbrushed, it take WAY more work to brush out, but does not ruin the fur or run after application... I know Reeve Paints are considered generally a 'student' grade acrylic so they would likely have issues when it came to quality.    The one I mentioned IS water fast and light fast and doesn't come off of fake fibers without a heck of a lot of work....HOwever artist quality acrylics will probably be fine... I would test them on a scrap first though to get it right first...


----------



## Ozriel (Jan 17, 2013)

YuPuffin said:


> What kind of acrylic paint would you recommend using? I might be painting on markings using acrylics for sometime in the future, but I haven't painted a fursuit before. My paints say Reeves on them, but I've only used them for actual paintings before and I don't want to use them if they're going to ruin the fursuit.
> 
> EDIT: I looked around a little more and it looks like generally watered-down artist-quality acrylics will work, but please still mention if you've had any particularly bad experiences with a certain kind of paint... |D


I've never used Reeves, but what I can suggest is buy 1 bottle of suggested paints and test them on a square of fabric. Rinse it, etc and see how the colors react to the material.

Other than that, I'd shamlessly plug Createx since it hasn't let me down yet.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 22, 2013)

Hey here's a dumb question, 
How much does an airbrush cost? And is it a tank with a brush permanently attached or is it an attachment for an aircompresser?

EDIT

Well nevermind I found a $12 one locally that's a smaller size (what I'm looking for just to blend the fur where the seams are so the colors don't stop sharply) and I might get it
If it doesn't seem very good I'll return it
Any more paint suggestions?


----------



## Nordo Huskamute (Jan 22, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Hey here's a dumb question,
> How much does an airbrush cost? And is it a tank with a brush permanently attached or is it an attachment for an aircompresser?
> 
> EDIT
> ...



I had one made by Testors that used a can of propellant when I was a kid, learned the basics with it.  Mess with the cheap one then get a good one that uses a specialized compressor made for airbrushes.  Try eBay for a good deal on a used one.  Iwata and Badger are good ones to look for, I prefer a double action brush.  Harbor Freight makes a decent kit that has a good compressor and an OK airbrush for about $150.  I got one just to get the compressor.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 22, 2013)

Nordo Huskamute said:


> I had one made by Testors that used a can of propellant when I was a kid, learned the basics with it.  Mess with the cheap one then get a good one that uses a specialized compressor made for airbrushes.  Try eBay for a good deal on a used one.  Iwata and Badger are good ones to look for, I prefer a double action brush.  Harbor Freight makes a decent kit that has a good compressor and an OK airbrush for about $150.  I got one just to get the compressor.


Yeah I was lOoking at Harbor Frieght and saw the $12 attachment (small head) and it says connects to compressor which I already have.
Ill probably just get that one and when I start commissioning (if my suits r good enough) then I'll upgrade


----------



## Chinona (Jan 22, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Hey here's a dumb question,
> How much does an airbrush cost? And is it a tank with a brush permanently attached or is it an attachment for an aircompresser?
> 
> EDIT
> ...




Depends.  a $12 one sounds like an iffy buy to me I'd test it's spray pattern on paper first... and THEN on an extra chunk of fabric.....  

I've had 3 different airbrushes and only one of them that I'd recommend... the first was a $20 kit that couldn't even be attached to my air compressors (I have a 5kg tank and a 20kg tank) it was also single action and I never DID manage to get it to work properly.  Globs of paint everywhere...
The second one I had was a Beaver (It was a Princess Auto Special) Professional metal double action gravity fed for $60.  It was good for the first few uses however it had two bends in the gravity feed before it made it to the airbrush itself... gummed the works up ruined the brush even using proper airbrush cleaner... I didn't realize how bad it was until I got to use an IWATA... which I promptly bought.

Which cost me $120.00.  But has been worth every single penny spent on it.  Have cleaned it three times properly basic water cleaning works FINE with it.... As long as it's consitsantly in use and isn't allowed to gum up.... never had a gob come out of it in 2 years.

My tanks I got on sale from Candian Tire, but I've seen them go on sale in places like Home Depot as well... my 20kg tank cost me $120 bucks but it's a fairly large tank so I don't have issues with larger projects... my 5 cost me $35 but it again was Princess Auto special....And am not sure if there is a Princess Auto outside of Canada I don't have their big catalogue that has all their stores listed on the back.


Like Nordo said... double action is my preferred tool as is gravity fed.  I hate bottom feeds but that's likely because my only experiences with them have been horrific and globular.  I'm sure there are good ones out there.




EDIT:  On the attachment to compressor thing - be aware that not all male and female parts on compressors work together.  I've actually gotten a universal female couple so any air hose tube I use no matter what the end will work.  You have to take the tube down to the airbrush size which can be incredibly not fun and most airbrushes are different ends as well... Luckily my Iwata and my beaver had the same size of feed on their bottom so there wasn't an issue there... but the other one I had well...not so much.  That said I don't own an 'airbrushing' compressor just a regular one so I need at least 100 feet of hose to make sure condensation is not an issue.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 23, 2013)

Yeah I don't think I'm ready to put $100+ into an airbrush just yet xD I might just get the $12 one and if it doesn't work return it and just dry brush if anything cause I just want it for blending the fur do the angles where the white meets the grey isn't so sharp looking


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Jan 28, 2013)

Chinona said:


> EDIT:  On the attachment to compressor thing - be aware that not all male and female parts on compressors work together.  I've actually gotten a universal female couple so any air hose tube I use no matter what the end will work.  You have to take the tube down to the airbrush size which can be incredibly not fun and most airbrushes are different ends as well... Luckily my Iwata and my beaver had the same size of feed on their bottom so there wasn't an issue there... but the other one I had well...not so much.  That said I don't own an 'airbrushing' compressor just a regular one so I need at least 100 feet of hose to make sure condensation is not an issue.



Okay, now you're starting to worry me more than I already was. D:
I have an airbrush I've had since high school (A Paasche VL, I think) that I would like to use for various things in the future. I suspected I probably didn't have the right connectors for the compressor we have, but what do you mean about condensation? My airbrushing teacher only taught us about the airbrushes, and not so much about the compressor itself...

Also, the compressor we have is usually used to pump up car tires. Is that too much? Is it possible for too much pressure to damage the airbrush?
I'm sorry for just asking you questions out of nowhere, but you do seem to know your stuff. ^^;


And to answer OP's question, here are things I've seen on first-time suits, I think some of them have been mentioned in the thread already:

- *Blocky, lumpy, or asymmetrical heads:* Not enough time spent on the foaming stage. Sometimes heads are very chunky and/or big. Blocky heads sometimes happen when someone uses mesh construction with very minimal (or no) foam to round out the shapes.
- *Flat ears with no dimension: *Ears look far better with a bit of a curve to them.
- *Tiny noses: *sometimes the fur bulks up the mask and makes the nose look small.
- *Wonky/Derpy/Badly cut out eyes:* Eyes are crooked, are unfocused (stare into nothingness), or in the case of foam eyes, are sometimes jagged.
-* Sunken eyes:* Eyes (usually follow-me eyes) that are placed so deeply into the head that all you can see is the whites from some angles. In worse cases, you can't see the eyes at all!
- *Bad/No shaving:* Often a cause of sunken eyes. Shaving helps define the features of the mask better, if you use long pile fur and don't shave, you're going to lose a lot of detail.

- _*Fur facing the wrong way*_: Generally, fur flows away from the nose and down to the toes. Fur goes from the base of the ears to the tips. Think about it as if you're standing in the rain with your head turned up to the sky. The rain flows from the front to the back of your head, down your body and down your limbs to your fingers and toes. (Exceptions are made for sloths and Rhodesian Ridgebacks- I think their fur really does go the other way on some parts.)

- *"Tumorlike" digitigrade padding:* Padding that is too blocky, paced to high or low on the leg, or makes too sharp a transition from foam to the wearer's body.
- *Tubelike muzzles:* Muzzles that don't transition smoothly into the head and just look "stuck on."
- *Dome head: *Often in conjunction with the tube muzzle, a head that has a large flat forehead (again, not enough transitioning with the muzzle, and sometimes lack of cheeks and brow ridges cause this.) If your mask looks like a giant foam thimble on your head, you're doing it wrong.
- *Marker coloring: *Sometimes people try to save money on fur by coloring it with markers. I kid you not. Please don't do this, it looks terrible. There's a suit posted in this thread with the NOSE colored on as well.
- *Cardboard/flimsy materials: *Unless this is just a one-time costume, please don't use cardboard or duct tape in your suit. Same goes for Foamies if they're used in a place they can get damaged easily. Felt is not a good substitute for fleece. No paper eyes or teeth either, please. 

Sorry for all that... But you did ask. XD I'd post some for quadsuits, but then this post would be entirely too long and take forever to read.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 28, 2013)

Great post Umbra!
But about the ears...for a Siberian Husky would the ear fur go down? Because their ears are always up so I was thinking wouldn't the fur go down towards the back?

EDIT
I also like to draw wolves,Siberian Huskies,and other animals buy I do the fur going down usually but I'm not too sure about the ear fur direction


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Jan 28, 2013)

For pretty much every animal I know of, the fur on the ears flows from where the ear attaches to the head, to the tip of the ear. I think of the limbs and ears as their own arrows that point where the fur goes, all pointing away from the body. Same goes for the tail. The fur flows from where the appendages attach and flows to the tip of the tail, ears and toes. The nose does not follow this rule however. Fur flows from the tip of the nose towards the rest of the face.






Here's a diagram someone else made. I hope it clears things up more, I'm not good at explaining things sometimes. ^^;
Note the fur flows away from the eyes and nose. The fur may look different on animals with longer hair, but I think it basically flows in the same directions.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh ok I thought the fur went down on the ears because they stick up but then last night I looked at a few of my animal books and saw the fur go up.
I just thought it'd look better to have to ear fur go the same way as the headfur so of someone pet my ear  the way u would pet a dog by going down xD 
Also wouldnt the fur start to flop downover time? I know this doesn't happen on real dogs but their fur is denser than faux fur.


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Jan 28, 2013)

Actually, when I pet pointy-eared dogs, I like to pet their ears from the base up, because I know the fur goes that way and is more comfortable. but yeah, some people would probably pet the other way.
Don't let too many people pet you though, it might wear the fur if done too much (or too vigorously), I think. (Not to mention the occasional dirty hands.)

The fur might start to flop over, but I think people usually brush their suits before going out. Be careful with this too (don't over-brush), since as you know, the fur doesn't grow back.


----------



## Springdragon (Jan 28, 2013)

I hope this helps.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 28, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> (helpful picture of fur direction) I hope this helps.



IT does! Although the arrows towards the back legs seem a bit confusing in terms of how faux fur works.

Like are the arrows pointing up? Or are they just simply there to show that the fur needs to go down towards the paws?


----------



## Springdragon (Jan 28, 2013)

On the paws, the pattern should be cut into three pieces, or one piece and brushed/hair sprayed into place.  The front of the paw going up the leg to the shoulder is a center line. The fur flows from that midline on the front into a ridge that points back up on the back side of the leg. This is especially noticable in coarse haired dogs, where you will get a tuft or feathered effect. 

Basically, there needs to one seam at the middle of the underside. For ultimate realism, instead of using a top piece and a bottom piece, there need to be three pieces. One for the top with the fur flowing down and one for each side which join at the back, with the fur flowing backward, at an angle to the top piece.  The palm portion of the glove needs to be another separate piece from the two backs, with the fur flowing up from the tips of the fingers.  Let me put together another diagram.


----------



## Trpdwarf (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm not sure if this has been posted or not but one of the biggest mistakes I see first timers make is that they rely on friends and family for critique. Or they get positive feedback from the Anime Community (especially after going to an anime convention) and take that as a cue to go into making for others.

Family is not always going to be honest. They often wish to spare your feelings by not telling the truth. Often they also have no real understanding of costuming/making and as such are not going to be able to give you proper critique.

Friends fall into the same category. I have seen cases where even furry friends will be less than honest to their furry counterpart when it comes to the costume they created. They know that it's less the ideal but they will withhold positive criticism for fear of hurting feelings. Also a lot of coddling goes on because not coddling runs into a temper tantrum style argument of "Well they spent a lot of time on it!".

Finally, the anime community while excelling in the amount of people who can do wonderful cos-play often fail spectacularly when it comes to animal based costumes. It is not uncommon for them to take things that were piss poor in construction and herald it is "Awesome". There is a lot of false sense of accomplishment that comes from this community because they don't have the kind of experience and build up community wise for animal based costumes that us furries do. So they do not often recognize how piss poor something really is. Yet I see so many furries go off thinking they can become a maker because they pleased the Anime community with their junk.

In order to make a good furry costume turn to the furry community for your critique. Don't use the Anime Community, your friends, or your family as your source of critique. If they like what you make take it with a grain of salt. Personally I remember when the first piss poor costumes Zeke and I made went to the local college Halloween contest. One of them won first prize. It was sad in a way because of how poorly constructed they were. It also reflects why the public often fails as recognizing real quality.


----------



## LemonJayde (Jan 28, 2013)

KerriBear69 said:


> Really? Wow, Where is the EDUCATION here... STOP Bashing these kids and EDUCATE THEM!!! Bullying them is not the ANSWER here!!!


Jesus Christ, woman.

Anyways, some that I have seen are fur direction, nose sculpting, and a huge on is box noses. THOSE ARE BIG NO'S. (get it? get it?)
*ehem* Back on topic, there are a lot of various mistakes that people make. Just depends on the person. I've noticed that good artists are good costume makers, and vice versa.


----------



## Springdragon (Jan 28, 2013)

I think the same concept applies to all crafts. (Craft as in "profession", not craft as in "miscellaneous makery which involves popsicle sticks".) You have to ask someone better than you to know whether or not you're doing well. Mistakes are a discrepancy between how the item should be and how it is. If the observer has no idea how it should be, he or she is not going to be able to recognize errors.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 28, 2013)

LemonJayde said:


> Jesus Christ, woman.
> 
> Anyways, some that I have seen are fur direction, nose sculpting, and a huge on is box noses. THOSE ARE BIG NO'S. (get it? get it?)
> *ehem* Back on topic, there are a lot of various mistakes that people make. Just depends on the person. I've noticed that good artists are good costume makers, and vice versa.



Yeah I hear ya that's why I'm tring to better my drawingskills and stuff


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Jan 28, 2013)

Trpdwarf said:


> I'm not sure if this has been posted or not but one of the biggest mistakes I see first timers make is that they rely on friends and family for critique. Or they get positive feedback from the Anime Community (especially after going to an anime convention) and take that as a cue to go into making for others.
> 
> ....



I completely agree. Friends and family always try to spare your feelings, or even worse, don't know what's wrong with it either! XD This is not directly suit-related, but I've seen plenty of... Not-so-good pieces of art/drawings online, and they receive nothing but praise from their friends, without even a _hint _of constructive criticism. 

And as for the anime community... They know their stuff, but fursuits aren't really "their stuff". so of course they wouldn't know as much as someone who specializes in animal costumes. That would be like asking someone who builds ball-jointed dolls for tips on how to make an action figure. Somewhat similar in some ways, but not quite the same. Might as well go right to the 'specialists for help.' I suppose this could apply to anything, really.


----------



## Wereling (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah like asking a water color painter how to paint with oils or someone who wrties romance novels about an action novel or even asking a contractor how to build a table 
It's not their field of expertise even though it might seem like it


----------



## Kaluna (Jan 29, 2013)

I just finished my first suit and I'd say the biggest issue is the muzzle doesnt move like i planned ti would, in fact i couldnt get it to move at all it was just flapping open so i had to glue it shut (kinna) it still flops around too much when i nod or run or dance.... :< i want it either static or moving, its not really either. its mostly static, its really not that bad, just if i bounce or dance really hard it looks a little silly


----------



## Wereling (Jan 29, 2013)

If it bounces too much try putting some plastic mesh in the roof of the mouth and glue the muzzle a bit higher (if you can get under the fur try doing a support system  or something like that) have ya got any pics so we can see what's going on?


----------



## mojobojo (Jan 29, 2013)

Gibby said:


> I gotta recommend this site to everyone
> 
> So many excellent masterpieces here, ones that you can learn from by examining them.



I considered it an accomplishment when my first fursuit head did not end up on there. Biggest problem I ran into is I put the fur on the wrong way, I had to rip it all off and redo it.


----------



## Dokid (Jan 29, 2013)

mojobojo said:


> I considered it an accomplishment when my first fursuit head did not end up on there. Biggest problem I ran into is I put the fur on the wrong way, I had to rip it all off and redo it.



In all honesty it's actually fairly easy not to be put on there. The site really only showcases the worst of the worst. 

Also I hate it when you think everything is going smoothly but then you find out that you sewed or glued something the wrong way.


----------



## Springdragon (Jan 29, 2013)

Just finished my first head. I have the following insights:

1) Make the tape pattern with the mouth open. 

2) Light colors are okay to drybrush on. Dark colors, especially black, need to be sewn in unless you're working with an animal that has a white undercoat, such as a wolf, or my (pet) cat. In some places, the fur is too long to work the color all the way down the base. 

3) Attach the hood, then the ears. They started out level, but I accidentally knocked them out of place and had to reglue in an odd way. In addition to that, they're so fragile that I don't want to risk brushing out the paint.

4) I am really bleeping tiny. I will probably have to wear shoulder pads with the head to make it look okay. 

5) Here's a picture of it in the most unflattering light possible. (Night time, incandescent overhead light, camera flash on.)  I'll try to take a better one in the morning.


----------



## Kaluna (Jan 29, 2013)

Dokid said:


> In all honesty it's actually fairly easy not to be put on there. The site really only showcases the worst of the worst.
> 
> Also I hate it when you think everything is going smoothly but then you find out that you sewed or glued something the wrong way.



Lol In making my first suit at one point I sewed the right ear to the left side of the face fur, and when I noticed I freaked out almost gave up, cried a little in frustration (granted this was at 4am after sewing for like 8 hours straight) and then finally took some deep breaths and carefully cut the stitches off with a razor blade. Everything was fine. :3 I really did have to laugh at myself after that drama.


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Jan 31, 2013)

Springdragon: That's quite nice for a first head! What species/breed is it though? Is it the Akita/Chow you mentioned in your other thread?



Kaluna said:


> Lol In making my first suit at one point I sewed the *right ear to the left side of the face fur,* and when I noticed I freaked out almost gave up, cried a little in frustration (granted this was at 4am after sewing for like 8 hours straight) and then finally took some deep breaths and carefully cut the stitches off with a razor blade. Everything was fine. :3 I really did have to laugh at myself after that drama.


Oh man is that frustraring. I haven't made a suit yet, but when I sew stuffed animals, I occasionally sew the pattern the wrong way... And man is it annoying to find and pick out all the stitches from fluffy fleece! I can't imagine how hard that must be with fur. D:

Oh, and to keep with the topic of the thread a bit more, I've thought of a few more mistakes I've seen:

*Eyes too close/too far apart:* I know good vision is a must, but try not to place your eyes too close together. Alternatively, don't place them too far apart either, because, well, good vision is a must!
*Ears too close/too far apart:* Sometimes ears look like they're nearly on top of the mask's head, with only an inch or so between them! And sometimes, the ears are a bit too far apart as well. 
*Overbite/Underbite/Crooked jaws:* Pretty self-explanatory. Tends to happen on "moving jaw" heads, I think.
*Plastic vampire teeth:* Once again, I kid you not, I've seen people use these as fursuit teeth. It tends to look pretty cheap.
*Frog-mouth:* Unless you're making a big-mouthed creature, your head should not have such a wide mouth!
*Cheap fur:* Buy quality fur for your suits, folks. People can tell when you skimp and buy "fun fur."
*Textured/patterned fur:* When making a spotted cat or the like, it's tempting to go buy pre-spotted fabric. please don't, this tends to look out of place on a fursuit. It's probably better suited for smaller things like plush toys.
*GIANT heads: *Tends to happen with partials.If the head looks big in the foaming stage, it's not going to look any smaller once furred.
*Lumpy foamwork:* Again, bad looking when foamed=Bad looking when furred. I know it's hard to get foam smooth, but try to get the big lumps out. Fur can't hide everything.
*Visible glue/raw edges: *Sometimes hot glue can be seen at the edges of fur/eyes/ears. Sometimes people don't secure the edges of fur in places like the ears,  this can look pretty bad.
*Glued bodysuits: *While I personally don't like glue much, it's acceptable on low-stress area like the head. However on a bodysuit, where seams are stressed more, please learn to at least handsew, or maybe get someone to help you sew it.
*Wonky ears:* Ears that are tilted differently from one another (when it's not done on purpose). Also, ears that are tilted too far forward or backward.
*Feather-Boa whiskers:* I don't see it often because it only happens in special cases. Sometimes, a character has long whiskers like that of an Eastern dragon. People sometimes use craft feather boas for these whiskers. It tends to not match the rest of the suit and looks bad.
*Back-tails:* Tails that are too high up, and are on or nearly on the wearer's back. Tends to happen with "dragon" type tails, or tails with thick bases. Remember tails, sprout from the base of your spine, _not from the middle of your back._ Tails generally do not belong above the belt line!
*Butt-tails:* Opposite of the "back tail." Tails don't sprout out of your butt, either. Don't place them too low.
*Everything-is-a-dog Syndrome:* If you're not making a dog, don't use dogs as references. Don't copy dog mask shapes. Even if it has raccoon or zebra or leopard markings, and it's shaped like a dog, _people are going to think it's a dog._ I saw a very nice suit of what looked like a Husky once. Only it wasn't a Husky. It was a Tree Kangaroo. Very nicely made, but it still looked like a dog!

And now, as promised, some quadsuit mistakes:
*Tube legs:* This happens when PVC pipes are used for the arm stilts, and no padding is used to break up the tube's shape. Professionals as well as first-time makers have done this. I've seen really beautiful suits that would be nearly perfect if it weren't for the shipping-tube legs.
*Short/no neck: *Quadsuit heads are built a bit differently than regular heads to give the appearance of a longer, animal-like neck. Some people don't realize this and appear to have little or no neck in-suit.
*LONG neck:* I think there was an Epona suit posted earlier with a giraffe-like neck... However, I've also seen a Girafarig (giraffe Pokemon) quadsuit, in which case a long neck is just fine!
*Insufficient padding: *Many quads I see don't have padded chests, which kind of ruins the animal illusion. Humans have very "flat" chests. Animals, however do not, so padding must be used to help the illusion.
*Baggy fur: *Okay, this occurs on both quad and regular suits, but I see it more on quads. Empty bags of fabric are not a substitute for padding.
*Super-long arms:* This one bugs me a bit. If your arm stilts are so long that you're basically putting all your weight on your hind legs, it looks very weird... Might as well wear a regular suit if you don't want to go on all fours. It also gives too much of a slope to the back and makes the torso look very short, which is usually not what you want for a quad.

And the biggest mistake for both fursuiters and quadsuiters:

*Not using reference images!* Whatever you're making, have some reference images handy. Not just one, as many as you can get your hands on! Reference images should help a lot for placing things like eyes and ears, and for getting the shapes of things right. Get reference images of the specific species/breed you're making. What works on a cat will not work for a dog, and what works for a Shiba Inu will not work for a German Shepherd. 

Also, try not to use other people's suits as your only reference. It's like making a drawing of a drawing of a picture; They've simplified the original to their liking, and if you simplify _that_, it's going to look less and less like the original source. It's like playing visual Telephone.

I think that's all I can think of for now.
Oh my... Now _this _is a long post! Sorry everyone! D:


----------



## Springdragon (Jan 31, 2013)

Umbra.Exe said:


> Springdragon: That's quite nice for a first head! What species/breed is it though? Is it the Akita/Chow you mentioned in your other thread?



Yes it is. Here's a better picture:  http://d.facdn.net/art/springdragon/1359590165.springdragon_photo-2013-wipcook5.jpg

Since then I've repainted the nose, added another coat of black to the lower jaw, and recut the ears. I originally had it as a divot at the top of the ear, but I shaved a false edge into the fur and reshaped the inside to give a clearer distinction between the plush inside of the ear and the long fringe outside. I also painted the front of the fringe black and cut the center all the way down and added a dab of fawn paint there for some shading. The ears look much better now. 

Back on Topic:  Another beginner lesson I learned is that I need to make all the curves in the base much more dramatic than I want it to look, to make room for the thick fur. The ears are curved, but they look flat. In another thread, Deo suggested that I have the ears too far back, but I disagree. I think they would look funny if they were set any further forward. The front of the ear is in the right place, but if anything, the backs need to extend further into more of a conical shape. Maybe I could get that if I cut down near the edges of the ears but left the fur longer at the base.


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Jan 31, 2013)

*Springdragon: *That looks pretty nice! The ears seemed small to me at first, but then I realized Chows have smallish ears, don't they?So what are you doing next? Handpaws? Feetpaws? Tail?Oh, and here's a couple other mistakes I've seen, not too many in this post though.*

Non-follow follow me eyes:* I've seen lots of people attempt follow-me eyes, but some don't, well, follow. The eye needs to be set deep enough in the head/eye sockets for them to work. Conversely, don't set them _too_ far in, or you might just have white-eyes from certain angles with no pupil visible. Follow-me eyes seem a bit tricky.
*
"Use your own eyes masks,"* when done the wrong way, look like you just forgot to put in eyes. I personally don't like UYOE masks, but if you're going to make one, at least do it correctly. These masks look best when small and form-fitting to the face. The closer the eyes are to your real eyes, the better. If the eyeholes are too far away, we can't see your eyes and it looks as if it was intended to be a regular mask, sans eyes.

*Splayed toes:* If your feet look like pancakes with tennis-ball toes stuck to the edges, they might need a bit of work. Animal toes are actually a bit closer together then a lot of beginners make them. This happens more with "toony" suits, I think, that exaggerate the toes a bit too much.


And I realize I may come across as sounding like some sort of fursuit dictator... ^^; I'm not saying you can't make ANY of these mistakes, because_ everyone _makes mistakes. Even the pros. But once you know what to avoid, I think it gives you a bit of an upper hand.
Also, I unfortunately haven't been able to start my first suit yet, (no money, no room to put it), so I'm probably also going to refer back to these things later. XD


----------



## Springdragon (Jan 31, 2013)

Agreed, follow-me-eyes are tricky. Also, if they're set at the wrong angle, the face looks cross-eyed instead of focused, from the front. 

I think Use-your-own eyes masks are scary. On a human, the sclera(sp?) is usually visible and we've gotten used to it, but on an animal that usually indicates fear and alarm. The expression ends up somewhat neurotic because the facial muscles are relaxed but the eyes are terrified. 

I don't think splayed toes has been mentioned yet. That's a good one. 


*Umbra:* Yes, the ears are intentionally small. The character is a quarter each of kunming military dog (basically looks like a straight backed GSD with shorter ears and some really wolfish color morphs), akita, chow, and a few local nonrecognized breeds. Most of those have a blunt head with small wide-set ears. 

Another thing that really bothers me about some suits (and some drawings) is enormous tall ears. An animal's ears aren't normally the same height as the rest of its entire head. It's close, on something like a housecat, but as the animal gets larger the ears get smaller in proportion to the head. Judging the size of an animal by its proportions is something that we've visually internalized. When something doesn't match, it looks out of scale. Even a house cat mask should have slightly smaller ears would be proportionate on an actual cat in order to reflect that rule. 

Then you get animals like artic foxes and wolves which have small ears already. 

Another mistake is the S shaped tail, or pointed tip tail. Fluffy fox and wolf tails actually have a rounded tip. Fox tails are tube shaped, not football shaped. 

The severe bend at the top of the S shape is meant to accomodate the wearer's butt. However, a tail that curves up at the end would usually be held away from the body. The spine doesn't usually bend at sharp angles and the tail is supposed to be an extension of the spine.

Edit:  I've been wondering for a while, is is possible to muck up a resin head? As in, provided you start from a decent base, is there anything a beginner might do that can completely wreck it?


----------



## Finty (Feb 1, 2013)

The eyes can either make or break a fursuit. Most beginners make them unequal.
Hurrrr Duuuurr


----------



## Chinona (Feb 2, 2013)

Umbra.Exe said:


> Okay, now you're starting to worry me more than I already was. D:
> I have an airbrush I've had since high school (A Paasche VL, I think) that I would like to use for various things in the future. I suspected I probably didn't have the right connectors for the compressor we have, but what do you mean about condensation? My airbrushing teacher only taught us about the airbrushes, and not so much about the compressor itself...
> 
> Also, the compressor we have is usually used to pump up car tires. Is that too much? Is it possible for too much pressure to damage the airbrush?
> I'm sorry for just asking you questions out of nowhere, but you do seem to know your stuff. ^^;



Need to not go and play starcraft for days at a time lol...
It depends on the compressor itself.  The ones I use are primarily meant for pumping up car tires and running air tools (like Air nailers for building a house).  I've never exceeded the pressure limit for my airbrush by more than 15 psi because my compressor has a regulator on it that allows me to limit how much pressure comes out of it.  I assume it could do damage if it was too much for too long, or it could just screw with how nice the paint flow is (which was listed as an issue to trouble shoot on one of my old air brushes).  Do you know what the pressure is coming out of it (tire compressors normally are high because it needs to get the tire up to pressure while having a lot of weight on it)? that airbrush has a really big range 20-55 with a 75 max so its a pretty tough brush but yeah things can go wrong after 75.

That said because it is a tire compressor, it very easily could get condensation in it, the lazy way of dealing with it is the 100 foot hose (which I got because it was the same price as the 20 foot hose - go figure).  You can also use the drain which should be built into the bottom of the tank (if there isn't one then you don't really have an issue it's been built to deal with said condensation in the motor/pipes themselves) it blasts the air and condensation out when you pull it. I only see condensation if I am running long projects on it and then it only make s it to the first 'catcher' for the most part thought it's likely safe to say that the hose does get a little of it.


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Feb 9, 2013)

Chinona said:


> ....
> That said because it is a tire compressor, it very easily could get condensation in it, the lazy way of dealing with it is the 100 foot hose (which I got because it was the same price as the 20 foot hose - go figure).  You can also use the drain which should be built into the bottom of the tank (if there isn't one then you don't really have an issue it's been built to deal with said condensation in the motor/pipes themselves) it blasts the air and condensation out when you pull it. I only see condensation if I am running long projects on it and then it only make s it to the first 'catcher' for the most part thought it's likely safe to say that the hose does get a little of it.



I kind of forgot that I had asked a question, sorry! Hope you see my response. >>;

So, I need to have a way to regulate the pressure from 20-55 psi, then?

And what does condensation do exactly, that makes it so bad?



As for the thread topic, I've been noticing a few suits with pushed-in noses lately, I think I mentioned those earlier... Or perhaps it was on another thread. The top of the nose tends to be tilted further back than the front, which looks odd on most of the suits Isee it on. Especially since most of the suits are canines, which tend to have the tops of their noses turned out more.
*
Springdragon:* I have noticed suits with too-large ears, I think it's intended to be a style choice, but on many suits I think it's exaggerated to the point that it doesn't look like the intended species anymore. Although once I have seen a Fennec suit that looked more like a regular fox, its ears were too small for a Fennec, and its muzzle was too broad...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the tails though. Do you mean pointed like this: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...As opposed to rounded, like this?





(Goodness, those pictures are _way _different in size, sorry.

Again, that may be a stylized way of making tails, I think. I don't mind it too much, but it depends on the style they're going for, I think. I think that if the tail is short and fluffy, the round tip looks best, and if it is longer, the pointed way looks better. But that's just my opinion.

I haven't seen this on any suits lately, but short-pile fur on a tail intended to be long haired and fluffy looks odd. It just makes the tail look fat instead of fluffy.


----------



## Chinona (Feb 10, 2013)

the condensation doesn't do to horribly much in most cases, however it can cause issues with the paint depending on the type and the application.  Most airbrush paint that is highly permanent does not like being mixed with water it can cause it to flake off.  Most of the time you have to buy a specific reducer for them in order to thin them for use. (which is why you should always blast a bit of pure reducer through a water cleaned brush when switching colors without a full clean.

And yeah you should get a regulator for your compressor if you can't tell what its set at, I know a few hardware stores will sell them, places that sell welding equipment might as well (because acetylene  welding using oxygen tanks and the like)  but I've never really looked.


----------



## Springdragon (Feb 10, 2013)

Umbra.Exe said:


> *
> Springdragon:*
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by the tails though. Do you mean pointed like this:
> 
> ...



Sorry if I articulated that badly. The pointed tip and the S shape are two separate issues. The two tails you posted are very well made, with the tip formed by the long hairs rather than the pattern. For pointed tip, I meant tails like this:






It's worse in this one because the fur is too short. 





For S shape, I meant like this..actually, this tail has both problems.


----------



## BahrgeistSmile (Feb 10, 2013)

It occurs to me that I think one other big mistake is taking on really ambitious projects right off the bat, or being overly ambitious.
("I'm gonna make a full suit with digitigrade legs, dropped crotch, three tails, wings, silicone paws, LED horns a moving jaw and light-up follow me-eyes! 8D")

Okay, perhaps not THAT extreme, but stuff like starting off on 3D eyes without ever having made 2D ones seems to be asking for trouble, and seems to invariably result in the strange follow-me eyes that don't seem to really follow and looks like the character had had plastic packaging rammed into its skull.  I mean, of the suits I've seen, a no-frills suit that's well made always trumps the bells-and-whistles suits that were attempted without practice.  It seems like mastering the basics is a good way to go, one of the reasons why my current project is 2D eyes, fixed jaw, no fancy stuff.

I tried a moving jaw straight off on my first ever attempt and...yeah..it ended up looking like one of those wildlife documentaries when an anaconda splays its mouth out so it can swallow a capybara. Not a good look.


----------



## Rivers Bluetail (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm most concerned about going too fast for mine. What's about the average time for a beginning fursuit maker? I know, "It takes you as long as it takes you" but a good frame of reference for a no bells and whistles, simple suit would be useful.

Also, if I plan on only building a few parts to a suit, should I still get enough fur for the whole thing? I don't want to spend a ton on fur I'm not sure I'm going to use for a long time, but is it worth it to make sure that the fur matches?


----------



## Springdragon (Feb 11, 2013)

I think it's okay to be ambitious so long as you know what you're doing. It seems backwards, but as a beginner, it's much easier to attempt something you've never done before if you have the proper supplies rather than trying to cobble it together without even firsthand knowledge of how it works.

As for a time estimate, it depends on how fast you sew and how much knowledge you have. Foaming, eyes, jawset, ears, and elastic took me 3 or four hours. Then two more hours to remove, repaint, and reinstall with molded eyelids instead of satin. 

Eight hours for cutting, sewing, and attaching the skin. One hour shaving (would probably go faster with clippers. I did scissors over comb.)

Another four hours redoing the hood pattern, cutting and sewing.

Maybe 2 hours total work time for painting, with a lot of waiting-for-dry in the middle, spread over four days.

I also put 30 minutes into painting the jawset, but most of the paint rubbed off, as I installed and adjusted it four times.


----------



## Chinona (Feb 13, 2013)

So far I"ve worked for about 3 hours on my suit... (my first) I've come to several conclusions

1. GAWDS DAMN MY FACE IS SMALL! (attempting to figure out how to get the eyes to work on a snow leopard face when the center of my eyes has about 2 inches between the two of them is in fact a living nightmare.)  I have photos.  When I finally get somewhat happy with it I will post it on here for peer review... until then I will rip it apart myself.
2. Clompy feet look HUGE on me.  So I have two sets of paws on the go atm... out door clompy feet (which still are about half to a third of the size of most other peoples clompy feet (size 3 kids) as well as sock paws for indoors.  The clompy feet are almost ready for the under layer photos. (Am excited)
3. Foam bits from shaping clompy feet and vacuum cleaners should never... ever mix.  Nor should commissioned wool tails sections and said foam bits.

I am also 26.  So no this is not something I will grow out of any time soon thus me going gang busters.


----------



## Wereling (Feb 15, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> Just finished my first head. I have the following insights:
> 
> 1) Make the tape pattern with the mouth open.
> 
> ...




LORDY THAT'S AMAZING!!!!! I NEED YOUR SKILLS -rips skills from you and runs- but seriously that's AMAZING




Finty said:


> The eyes can either make or break a fursuit. Most beginners make them unequal.
> Hurrrr Duuuurr






When I saw this I laughed out loud xD oh Lordy how does that even happen?


and also I thought this thread was extinct cause I wasn't getting any notifications in my mail but its alive!!!! Yay!!!


----------



## Springdragon (Feb 15, 2013)

*Wereling:*  Wow, high praise indeed.  I think it goes back to the artist/suitmaker correlation discussed earlier in this thread. An good artist already knows what it's supposed to  look like, so it's just a matter of learning how to work with the materials, and which details are and aren't important. (For example, I should have angled the resin eyes slightly inward instead of straight-on, and the base needs have exaggerated curves, but doesn't have to be perfectly smooth, due to the thickness of the fur. ) 

Someone who isn't already an artist also needs to learn what the thing is supposed to be in addition to the materials. An experienced costume-maker is going to go the opposite way, knowing how to use the materials, but needing to learn what a fursuit head should look like, so you will see a completely different set of common mistakes.


----------



## Troj (Feb 15, 2013)

*Springdragon, *that mask is beautiful. The eyes especially.

When I draw or build something, I usually need to have a model or two handy to keep me on track, because while I know what looks good or bad, visualization is hard for me. Even then, I don't have the best motor skills, so the art tends to suffer for it, unless I can work something until I've massaged out the early mistakes.


----------



## Rivers Bluetail (Feb 22, 2013)

So in general, do I want to trim fur before I cut it out with stencils or after? Finally getting around to starting on some smaller parts. I need some practice before I make a head.


----------



## Wereling (Feb 22, 2013)

Rivers Bluetail said:


> So in general, do I want to trim fur before I cut it out with stencils or after? Finally getting around to starting on some smaller parts. I need some practice before I make a head.


I would trim it after so you can match up the fur length of the rest of whatever you're working on


----------



## Zoeymonic (Feb 23, 2013)

Wereling said:


> Don't forget un-even shaving. Whenever I see that I'm like"how hard is it to go slowly so it turns out nicely?" I actually find shaving fur soothing.....until I breathe some in and start sneezing everywhere,that I find annoying


Lol!!!!! Same here!!!!!


----------



## Rivers Bluetail (Feb 24, 2013)

Another quick one (I know...) For partial suit arms, what's the best route to go with keeping them on? Elastic at the top attached to eachother or what?


----------



## Springdragon (Feb 25, 2013)

I know that elastic at the top works well, but I went the cross-chest route with mine because I need the fur to pad out my shoulders. Looks funny otherwise. (I suppose I could just make a fitted vest with shoulder pads to wear underneath the whole thing, but this is easier.)


----------



## Elbi (Feb 25, 2013)

I have to admit, I've already learned a lot from this thread, and I also know I'm no where near being a good or decent suitmaker, but I'm getting better every single day. I'm an art student, so I just weirdly assumed I'd be good at making my partial. I did EXTENSIVE research before I even began, and I was still a bit stymied. So I ended up giving in and commissioning out a foam base by dfdcostumes. Getting that base gave me my confidence back, and I thought with her genius skills helping, I may actually be able to do a decent job. Of course, I fell victim to what a lot of beginner's do, and I rushed it a bit out of sheer excitement. I made my dt pattern a bit too generous, and fur bunched. I machine sewed with mismatching thread. I hacked at the eyeholes until they were on the verge of being too large. I bought fur that didn't have a plush enough pile to give me a proper fluffy looking suit. And...(I am legit wincing as I type this) I painted on details to the face. and let them harden. Her eyes are wonky, and her snout is crooked. (hangs head in shame) I regret all the mistakes I made now, because my partial would have been so great if I'd done her properly, and if I'd had the courage to stop and fix my mistakes. I wore her to one con, and people were for the most part either very kind and forgiving or kept quiet to what must have been a bit of a mess, but I knew going in I wasn't the absolute worst suiter there, so it made me feel a bit better. But i knew after that I couldn't continue. 

 i did take something from the experience.

I'm just not cut out to make suits on my own. Mainly for myself, because I have such a clear picture of what my 'sona looks like and I just don't have the skills to make it a reality. helping friends out with their first suits or making paws, sockpaws, tails, I can do, but otherwise I don't trust myself and it's far too much pressure. I learned not to subject anyone else to my monstrosities lol. And I was able to look back and laugh. I know it's not the best I could've done, and I know it's a bit silly now, but I learned from it and I moved on. I feel like as long as someone takes something from the experience it wasn't a total waste, y'know? and having that experience gave another suitmaker some business, because I commissioned a full head. xD let the pros do what they do best!


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Feb 26, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> Sorry if I articulated that badly. The  pointed tip and the S shape are two separate issues. The two tails you  posted are very well made, with the tip formed by the long hairs rather  than the pattern. For pointed tip, I meant tails like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, I see what you mean now. In addition to having short fur, the second  one is also poorly/hastily stuffed, another thing to watch out for.  Patience is key!
i suppose it doesn't apply to foam tails though, but carving the foam also requires patience in any case.




Elbi said:


> I wore her to one con, and people were for the most part either very kind and forgiving or kept quiet to what must have been a bit of a mess, *but I knew going in I wasn't the absolute worst suiter there, so it made me feel a bit better.*



That's one thing to remember. Just becasue a suit isn't perfect doesn't mean it's thhe worst suit ever or anything. There's always going to be better suits, and worse suits than yours. It's just how things are. Same goes for any type of work really. (Now if only my friend would listen when I say that, he's been so hard on himself about his art...




Elbi said:


> i did take something from the experience.
> 
> I'm just not cut out to make suits on my own. Mainly for myself, because I have such a clear picture of what my 'sona looks like and I just don't have the skills to make it a reality. helping friends out with their first suits or making paws, sockpaws, tails, I can do, but otherwise I don't trust myself and it's far too much pressure. I learned not to subject anyone else to my monstrosities lol. And I was able to look back and laugh. I know it's not the best I could've done, and I know it's a bit silly now, but I learned from it and I moved on. I feel like as long as someone takes something from the experience it wasn't a total waste, y'know? and having that experience gave another suitmaker some business, because I commissioned a full head. xD let the pros do what they do best!



I wouldn't be so harsh on yourself. You probably just need more practice. But I suppose of you're a perfectionist, then commissioning is a good way to go, so you pretty much know what the final product will look like. But I do agree that a 'sona suit isn't really the best choice for a first suit in most cases, as a first suit is usually the one with the most mistakes.



I thought of another thing for the list. Not sure if it's really a "mistake", but I do find that it looks odd. When people wear partial suits with huge fluffy feetpaws, and then proceed to wear skinny jeans over that.... It tends to look rather comical and disproportionate, no matter how good the rest of the suit looks. It kind of looks like furry slippers instead of looking like the costume's feet. I'm not really sure why people tend to do this so much though.


----------



## Rivers Bluetail (Feb 27, 2013)

I see it on girls alot, definitely. Mostly the 14-year-old-YAYFURRIESI'MAFURRY-girls that don't do much with the fandom except want a fursuit. 

I'm a little nervous about suiting though. I'm a little, little guy. 5'10, 130 pounds. Most fursuiters are a ton larger than I am, and I don't wanna look like a teeny-bopper in suit


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Feb 27, 2013)

Yep, I mainly see it on girls as well. It's like they don't own a single pair of baggier/looser pants, so they have Mickey Mouse-like feet.

I wouldn't worry too much about being small. I'm even shorter than you are, actually. I'm planning to make digitigrade stilts for my suit to make me a little taller. If not though, I think just the head itself would help increase my height a bit. Yours will probably add an inch or so as well, and like I said, you don't sound that short. (You're taller than my brother too, and I consider him to be average height.)


----------



## Rivers Bluetail (Feb 27, 2013)

That's alright I guess. And I suppose being a giant intimidating neon animal thing isn't exactly something where your judged on height. 

Another question (because knowledge is power): 
I do sports like paintball and airsoft, so vision is usually very limited through those masks. If visibility better or worse than that?


----------



## Umbra.Exe (Feb 28, 2013)

Yep, I think people are most likely to notice the giant animal walking around, rather than notice said animal's exact height.

I don't play airsoft, and never wore a fursuit head, but based on what I've seen in videos, I'm willing to guess fursuit vision is worse. I saw airsoft masks at Goodwill yesterday and saw they have goggle-like eye protection, but fursuits just have the eyes or tear ducts to look through, with a blind spot in the middle. Sometimes people add vision through the eyes and nose, or in some cases the neck, so that could improve visibility a bit.


----------



## Dokid (Feb 28, 2013)

Rivers Bluetail said:


> That's alright I guess. And I suppose being a giant intimidating neon animal thing isn't exactly something where your judged on height.
> 
> Another question (because knowledge is power):
> I do sports like paintball and airsoft, so vision is usually very limited through those masks. If visibility better or worse than that?



It would really depend on how the eyes are built. Tear duct vision is going to be very limited compared to an ultra toony giant eyed one. I would think that it would a bit worse just because your hearing might be lessened because of the foam.


----------



## Rivers Bluetail (Feb 28, 2013)

Umbra.Exe said:


> Yep, I think people are most likely to notice the giant animal walking around, rather than notice said animal's exact height.
> 
> I don't play airsoft, and never wore a fursuit head, but based on what I've seen in videos, I'm willing to guess fursuit vision is worse. I saw airsoft masks at Goodwill yesterday and saw they have goggle-like eye protection, but fursuits just have the eyes or tear ducts to look through, with a blind spot in the middle. Sometimes people add vision through the eyes and nose, or in some cases the neck, so that could improve visibility a bit.


I figure I'll be able to see through the iris and colored part of the eye with mesh, it looks like my best option.


Dokid said:


> It would really depend on how the eyes are built. Tear duct vision is going to be very limited compared to an ultra toony giant eyed one. I would think that it would a bit worse just because your hearing might be lessened because of the foam.


Meh, I'm used to poor hearing (comms make it hard, everything's either too quiet or too lout), but that sounds about right. I don't really plan on going into combat scenarios in-fursuit though, so I'm not too concerned


----------



## Dokid (Feb 28, 2013)

Springdragon said:


> Sorry if I articulated that badly. The pointed tip and the S shape are two separate issues. The two tails you posted are very well made, with the tip formed by the long hairs rather than the pattern. For pointed tip, I meant tails like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well the third one would look a whole lot nicer if she didn't have it so thick up top. It looks like a tumor grew near there. I don't think the fur is too short. Just it's very very large.

For the second one it seems like the tube tail that doesn't really ever work unless it's a rodent or something. It also looks like he didn't stuff it properly and is made of cheap fabrics.


----------



## Dokid (Mar 12, 2013)

Do you think we could sticky this thread? Before it gets lost within the pages.


----------



## Mikhal18 (Mar 12, 2013)

Seeing so many atrocities made me think... Should I reeeeally create my fursuit? Chances are it will look hurrible D:
I've never made one, and honestly, my hands are not really good for this kind of stuff, at least, if I don't have help with some details...D:


----------



## Dokid (Mar 12, 2013)

Mikhal18 said:


> Seeing so many atrocities made me think... Should I reeeeally create my fursuit? Chances are it will look hurrible D:
> I've never made one, and honestly, my hands are not really good for this kind of stuff, at least, if I don't have help with some details...D:



Haha don't worry. Just if you make a durrsuit don't close your ears and ignore good advice. That's what you'll need to improve. Also if you follow most of the stuff here it won't be a terrible mess.

You can always make something better than this


----------



## Zaraphayx (Mar 12, 2013)

Don't forget the SPH.


----------



## Mikhal18 (Mar 13, 2013)

I do like critics, otherwise I wouldn't get myself into anything at all :|
Still, some of those pics are *so* motivational :V

My goal: have a "non-sparkly", "regular", "not-so-crappy" suit <3


----------



## Dokid (Mar 13, 2013)

Mikhal18 said:


> I do like critics, otherwise I wouldn't get myself into anything at all :|
> Still, some of those pics are *so* motivational :V
> 
> My goal: have a "non-sparkly", "regular", "not-so-crappy" suit <3



Haha well sometimes sparkly is good. Anyways most of the time suits come out derpy looking because the person didn't do enough research or get any advice on it. So something like having way too big ears is easily fixed, but when you don't show it to anyone till you're completely done we can't do much. I mean we could say "re do it" but its a lot more hassle than if we told you to trim them down when you were still foaming.


----------



## Zabrina (Mar 30, 2013)

Lordy, this thread was the best book I've ever read.


I'm feeling pretty informed on the foam head, but when the head is finished, when do I add the eyes, before or after it's furred?


Oh, a quick tip. Use your inner hair dresser, because chunky, chopped up fur NEVER looks good. And If your fursuit is a very certain species, (Koala, bear, squirrel, ect.) Look up pictures of the animal online and draw it a bit. You don't want people to look at your bunny and say, "Hey, it's a fox!"


And, word of advice, be careful when forming the head shape. You don't want it to look like a shoe.


----------



## Razzyrazz (Mar 30, 2013)

I want to try and make a fursuit head. I really, really do. My biggest obstacle? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SEW. I don't know the first thing about sewing or fabric (I've always preferred to sculpt and paint instead), so...is it really possible to overcome this? I'm going to attempt to make some feetpaws, since I don't HAVE to sew them, but for a head/anything else it's necessary, so I feel lost. D:


----------



## Dokid (Mar 30, 2013)

Razzyrazz said:


> I want to try and make a fursuit head. I really, really do. My biggest obstacle? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SEW. I don't know the first thing about sewing or fabric (I've always preferred to sculpt and paint instead), so...is it really possible to overcome this? I'm going to attempt to make some feetpaws, since I don't HAVE to sew them, but for a head/anything else it's necessary, so I feel lost. D:



Practice sewing on cheap fabric. Sewing is always better than hot glue and will make your stuff last so much longer. Just take baby steps. Sew a line. Sew a pillow. It gets easier the more you try.


----------



## Dokid (Apr 8, 2013)

Since I've finished by 2nd fursuit head...here's what I've learned.

Make the eyes lower for a feline head or else it starts looking like a mouse.
Make sure that the bottom jaw is connected to the top in a "V" shape. 
Be more dramatic with carving or else it's shape is very dull.
Shave ears much much shorter before attaching.
Don't cut corners by trying to do a make shift ear pattern. Just buy more duct tape for it. 


Annnnd that's all. We'll see what happens with my next one!


----------



## Furlover123 (Aug 27, 2014)

This is so helpful!  Keeping track.


----------



## kobidobidog (Mar 1, 2015)

What should never be a mistake is to have parts on a fur-suit real or fake that they never made. When hotels at conventions allow the sight of them they will accspt their own body at the same time.


----------



## Zabrina (Mar 3, 2015)

Faces aren't the only things that are important on a good suit, it's the fur you use. Any time I see a suit that has fur similar to the fabric of a towel, I cringe. Also, (this is mostly on partial suits,) fur that's so flat it doesn't really look like fur at all, just clumpy and kind of..there. It's tough to describe.

Square muzzles that are too long/uneven are another.


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Mar 3, 2015)

-uneven muzzles
-flat or disproportionate ears
-insufficient ventilation
-cheap fur


----------



## pinkjaydadutchie (Jul 26, 2017)

I have been in the fandom for about 3 years now and have only made suit this year. I see a lot of the furry slippers, but what I seed the most often that usually messes up the suit is the bucket head method, I prefer foaming on a balaclava base and no foam on the back of the head for a more natural look.


----------



## KiokuChan (Jul 30, 2017)

Wereling said:


> This is the worst mask I've ever seen and it has tons of problems


 Strangely when I click that I don't see a mask at all but a a strange shadowy drawing. O____O


----------



## KiokuChan (Jul 30, 2017)

Also, I get that the intent is to know what to try to avoid if this is an artistic pursuit but some of this bashing of other people's efforts is a little mean. Sometimes people make things just for their own personal fulfillment and happiness. Also the comments that x or y is not that hard to get right, I'm guessing is coming from people who are good at art and various crafts and have done such for a long time. I feel that most aspects of crafting something can be very hard to some people.. in fact just drawing in 2D is hard nevermind recreating in 3D and if someone struggles with something but likes doing it I don't think it's fair to say that they shouldn't do it because others wouldn't want to see the result or such.


----------



## drawain (Aug 18, 2017)

Making my own first fursuit head right now and saw this thread through reasearch some while ago. Funny to see some recent posts. 



KiokuChan said:


> Strangely when I click that I don't see a mask at all but a a strange shadowy drawing. O____O



Always wondered about this too. ._.



KiokuChan said:


> Also, I get that the intent is to know what to try to avoid if this is an artistic pursuit but some of this bashing of other people's efforts is a little mean. Sometimes people make things just for their own personal fulfillment and happiness. Also the comments that x or y is not that hard to get right, I'm guessing is coming from people who are good at art and various crafts and have done such for a long time. I feel that most aspects of crafting something can be very hard to some people.. in fact just drawing in 2D is hard nevermind recreating in 3D and if someone struggles with something but likes doing it I don't think it's fair to say that they shouldn't do it because others wouldn't want to see the result or such.



People can do these for practice, it's better than nothing. But I often wonder about theirt so called "effort". I think most of the time if the suit turned out suuuper shitty it was rushed, poorly researched and they didn't ask for critic?


----------



## Deathless (Aug 20, 2017)

Probably said a billion times but w/e.
*The Head:*

The snout being just a cylinder or too boxy (not much structure)
The eyes either being placed too high or too low (or uneven. Also follow-me eyes being too deep or too shallow)
Sometimes the ears may be just triangles or rectangles
THE TEETH BEING MADE OUT OF PAPER AND STICKING OUT (this can look SUPER creepy)
The fur not being shaved or groomed (this goes for everything)
The jaw being too thick or too thin, or having the jaw me just a circle/rectangle
COLORING THE FUR when they don't have the proper color (that will make the fur look sloppy and possibly ruin softness)
*The Paws:*

The fur may not be properly cut (to make it either seem like they're gloves or being too fluffy)
Sometimes claws/nails can be put on the wrong way
The paw pads being made from paper and just hot glued on
Using glue instead of sewing (same with the head)
The paws being too short, too long, too big (so they fall off easily) or too small
*The Tail:*

Using paper towel rolls as a base
Either using too much stuffing or not enough (not the most horrible thing ever)
The belt loops showing/the loops being too long
If the tail has a different color tip/patterns, they can glue/sew on another patch of fur over the tail
The belt loops being made of flimsy material like paper/rubber bands 
The tail not matching (being slightly lighter/darker than the rest of the suit)
*The Feet*

Using plastic (or any other flimsy/uncomfortable material)
The feet being too big and bulky (being too small isn't really an issue most of the time)
(with outdoor feet) Having the sole not cut right (showing outside the foot) or having the sole too tall
Again, not matching (too bright/dark)
*Full Suits/Body Suits*

Having the zipper on the front, blatantly
The legs/arms either being too short or too long (and being baggy)
(with separate arms) The strap connecting them showing outside the suit
USE DURABLE THREAD WHEN SEWING! (find another way to sew to make it more durable)
DO ALL SEWING INSIDE THE SUIT! (unless your fursona has blatant stitches)
Coloring in designs will make the suit look messy
That's all really. Just don't be scared to make mistakes and explore new ways to improve your suit! If you're young, don't be afraid to ask an adult to help you with scissors and hot glue!


----------



## Fursuitsandmore1022 (Jul 25, 2018)

All my suits have that giant forehead, lol. Gonna have to change from the bucket head to balaclava or mesh, I think thats the reason. Also I dont know if its just me but on my first 2 suits I didnt even bother to sew my fur together i just glued the pieces onto the head which, ( As you can see ) turned out really bad. I also didnt add any texture at all to the face except the muzzle.


----------



## Kebechet (Jul 25, 2018)

The first time I made a mask for halloween, I made it out of Model Magic clay... which isn't a very durable material  and at the time I didn't have the right glue either.

Thankfully I only made it for Halloween. 

But, I'm going to have to say that people probably don't research adhesives and how they relate to their materials, before taking that leap and trying to make a head or other part of a costume. There are so, so many different materials that won't play well with certain adhesives. 

Also, hot glue is HOT. 
I burnt my fingers so many times. Ouchie :'(


----------



## KiokuChan (Jul 26, 2018)

Nice list @MidnightDragon


----------



## Eli Wintershade (Jul 31, 2018)

Well as a first time maker who is in the process of making the head and is getting closer and closer to furring I can tell you the mistakes I have made so far, and the problems with this head that is my final project. It is a all foam head, which from what I have read is good for making a amateur fursuit, but sucks for professional stuff (good thing I am not making this for anyone except me)

So Mistake 1 I made was in forming the head. I tried as hard as I could, and by god did I try for about 20 minutes but it is not as round as I would like it. The shape is only what I could describe as a rounded square. I am GLAD I didn't decide I was going to try to squish the corners in as I would have made a cone shape and it would have been even worse than it is. Luckly I can use it as part of the design, so I am not TOO destroyed by this mistake.

Mistake 2! Asymmetrical eyes and ears. I do not think I need to say much more. It is horrible. That is all. Poor work, and fucking up with my cutting. 

Mistake 3 as well as 4! Hot glue. It shows, Now this is something that can be EASILY hidden when I fur the head, but it still is something I did kinda badly. Some of the foam even ripped, looking at the head closer I am confident I can hide this with fur.

Mistake 5! The muzzle is messed up to an EXTREME point. This was the only point where I considered remaking the head, and I nearly did. In short I glued parts that should NOT be glued, and now the muzzle is uneven and the middle part shows. I think the nose should cover the parts I did wrong on. Now while it is messed up, I did realize it looks like a weird hybrid of a wolf and panther muzzle. Wintershade is a wolf panther hybrid, so I could defiantly use it and that kept me from scrapping and giving up.

So in short here is the list of mistakes I have made with creating the base of my head. I guess if I had to close this out I would say I am still proud of what I have done so far. Clearly I am still working on it so that shows something. My recommendation is to work past the mistakes if you are able to. From a personal level I am in love with what I have done so far, although from a more professional/objective level I will rip on my work all day until the sun sets.


----------



## FreakyCreaturz (May 4, 2020)

Buckethead. In my opinion, it makes the head look super bulky and blocky if you do not have half inch foam (another mistake)! I’d rather just use a balaclava or not make the full head foam (basically what I’m saying is to make straps of foam to make a + sign to hold the face on). It saves foam and won’t look as bulky if you do it right. You can still build off of it, too!


----------



## Stray Cat Terry (May 4, 2020)

I never thought making a fursuit was easy in any way, but after reading all these... I should start calling it 'fursuit manufacturing'. It's no different to manufacturing cars, for me.

I shall commission these to professionals when I really want one for myself, I hate those cringe moments when I see my amateur first-time works that only my family would butt-pat me for. Nor do I want them to be seen by others.

Great thanks for everyone who commented constructive and informative stuffs on the thread, my brain had grown a stage now...


Now I'll just get back and stay on drawing 2d arts... Meow...


----------



## Kellan Meig'h (May 6, 2020)

Another bad mistake for the eventual wearer is using old, recycled upholstery foam. There is no telling what's been living in that stuff. No, new foam from Joanne's or Wally*World.


----------

