# The Big Questions (Religion, Ideology, etc) Thread.



## Surgat (Jan 10, 2007)

ITT: We discuss some of our fundamental beliefs, such as our religion, our political ideology, and our metaphysical beliefs, and we state _why_ we believe what we do. 

____________________________________________
To begin: 
Since gods are not necessary for and are of a type of thing (non-physical substance) not necessary for any explanation of anything in the universe, we should not believe in them.  As long as coherent naturalistic alternatives to gods are put forth by science as explanations of phenomenon, by the Law of Parsimony we shouldnâ€™t believe in them. 

As for political ideology, Iâ€™m a little less sure on that. However, itâ€™s pretty reasonable to disbelieve in Natural rights: Iâ€™ve never seen a natural _right-of-way_ existing absent of humans and their conventions and behavior, and can think of no way to test for one. This rules out Objectivism and certain forms of Libertarianism (any that rely on natural rights), and since we shouldnâ€™t believe there is a god to give us a religious morality, we shouldnâ€™t be conservatives. Communitarianism is an unattractive theory because itâ€™s a form of cultural relativism. 

Since physical substance can carry out our cognitive functions (functional intelligence), all we must deal with is the â€œhard problemâ€ of consciousness. Even in the absence of a really good physicalist theory of consciousness though, we can still infer that it is a physical thing: we have no [_good_] reason to suspect that physical substance _cannot_ produce consciousness. Assuming it isnâ€™t [physical] leaves us with having to explain how physical life evolved it and how it interacts with matter. Therefore, lex parsimoniae, we should believe that you are completely made out of meat. This ought to take care of any suspected ghost sighting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people

The same goes for attributes and numbers. There is no redness. Iâ€™ve never seen _redness_, only red things. Similarly there are no numbers. Iâ€™ve never seen _five_, though on many occasions Iâ€™ve seen, thought of, or Iâ€™ve been told of basically â€œa thing and a thing and a thing and a thing and a thing.â€ Thus, by Ockhamâ€™s Razor again, we shouldnâ€™t believe in properties or numbers. 

[Note: we use the Law of Parsimony/Ockhamâ€™s Razor all the time. Letâ€™s say you hear a nock on the door. You come up with two possible explanations: one, a ghost knocked on the door, and two, a human knocked on the door. If you opened up the door and saw a person would you say conclude that ghost knocked on that door at the _exact same time and place_ as that person? No.] 
________________________________
Discuss.


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## Rostam The Grey (Jan 10, 2007)

French Silk Chocolate Pie!


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## Kittiara (Jan 10, 2007)

Well, I'm too busy to contribute anything intelligent, but I figure I'll just say this:

I don't have any specific beliefs, though I find it fun to speculate.Â Â I'm interested in the varying beliefs and in speculating on The Big Questions, but I've never felt the need to believe specifically in anything except my basic moral code (whatever that is).Â Â It's never seemed to make sense to do anything but live how I think I should and want to.

I believe the concept of a god or gods was created by humans.Â Â That I truly think, but I am spiritual to a far enough extent that when pressed I can say that I believe whatever power is out there is nothing but the universe and its mysterious ways.  I don't mean that aliens are controlling us or anything. XD But just that it's the way of things to be how they are, even if WE can't explain it doesn't mean it's unnatural or new.

Maybe I'll come back later, but for now... work! :3


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## Silverdragon00 (Jan 10, 2007)

My religion is part Christianity, since there are some things I don't agree with, and I also believe in reincarnation. Answer to why I believe that, I voted for other and f*ck you I'm a dragon!


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## Lobo Roo (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm a pagan, a liberal, and I love strawberry pie.


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## Sarketch (Jan 10, 2007)

<<< Christian. Due to environment.

Although if heaven is defined as everything you want it be, then my heaven would be truely strange!


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## Meni (Jan 10, 2007)

Christian, seventh-day adventist. Leaning on deism. I tend to believe that God does not intervene, I get that right? 
Moderate in politics and I tend to flip a lot depending on my mood.
The last two sections, I have no clue what they are. I pretty much read a wikipedia article and guessed.


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## Icarus (Jan 10, 2007)

Methodist christian, with some different thoughts.
Definate Anarchist, every gov't is either wrong or stupid or basically the same thing.  We don't need a prez if you look close to his real power.
f*ck you I'm a dragon is a cool saying XD.
is cheesecake pie? if not, pumpkin.


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## crabby_the_frog (Jan 10, 2007)

No atheism?


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## Horrorshow (Jan 10, 2007)

I can't really seem to elaborate on what my views on life are, but I'll try to give a brief explanation.


I'm an atheist, I have no political agenda, and my only real concern is finding success and happiness. Simple, no? I don't care all that much about pointing out names to link to my philosophies, 'cause it's really not that big of a deal for me. I live my life the best I can, and I will continue to do so. :]


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## Surgat (Jan 10, 2007)

I forgot to mention: pumpkin pie is _clearly_ the best kind of pie. 



			
				Meni said:
			
		

> The last two sections, I have no clue what they are. I pretty much read a wikipedia article and guessed.



Section III is basically "do we have an immaterial soul?" "Dualism" is a yes, "physicalism" is a no, and "panpsychism" is a "everything/physical things has/have consciousness." 

Section IV is "do abstract objects exist" and "do objects of the same type have anything in common." 

Realism says yes, properties and numbers really exist. It can be about universals, where a white dog and white snow both have _whiteness_ in common and both instantiate things like _mass_, or individual properties, where a white dog has it's own whiteness separate from that of other white dogs or from snow. Numbers exist in some non-physical platonic realm.

Nominalism says no, there are only white objects [and maybe classes of objects, i.e. the class of "white objects," "dogs," and "snowflakes"}. Talk about numbers is really talk about something else. 

People fought each other over this in the middle ages. srs bzns.



			
				crabby_the_frog said:
			
		

> No atheism?





			
				I said:
			
		

> None, Pastafarianism, or pantheism


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## Epsereth (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm a practicing Hindu - a worshiper of both Kali Ma and Govinda. I was raised Christian, but it did not satisfy me. I am very fulfilled by Hinduism, largely because I find that it allows for great flexibility (seeing as it's more a lifestyle / culture than a religion, and while there are rituals and such it's not really organized at all). It is also open to the ideas of other lifestyles and religions - in fact, many Hindus believe that Jesus Christ, the Buddha, and Moses were avatara of Krishna himself. Granted, there are some Indian cultural practices I don't agree with, but Hinduism is so loose in some senses that it's okay if I don't follow those practices. 

My "religion" is very personal, and I don't believe it's right to impose your will or beliefs on others who are minding their own.


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## InvaderPichu (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm an Agnostic Pagan. I don't know if there is a deity or not, because I can't prove or disprove them. I believe every single living creature has a soul, and I also believe in reincarnation.


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## nobuyuki (Jan 10, 2007)

-is- there an option for agnostics?

one for skeptic would be good too even if you have a religion


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## Surgat (Jan 10, 2007)

"None" should cover atheism and agnosticism. Atheism and agnosticism aren't religions.


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## Epsereth (Jan 10, 2007)

Surgat said:
			
		

> Atheism and agnosticism aren't religions.



Lawl, I've known my share of atheists who are obnoxious enough about it you'd _think _it were a religion.


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## ADF (Jan 11, 2007)

Where is the option for â€œDon't give a damn about any of the aboveâ€? Perhaps the pie option...

Politics? I am not going to label myself within a group and regurgitate their views. If people want my opinions on something I'll answerer them individually, saying you are in said group limits your flexibility and forces you to follow the values of said group even if you may only agree with a few of them.

Religion? Knowing that god is infinite, and that the universe is also infinite, even the smallest piece of either will still be infinite. With this in mind how can any religious text hope to summarise god or the entirety of existence? Also considering that humans are imperfect and that it was humans that created religious texts, how could any religion possibly be correct? With this in mind I choose to follow no religions or even create my own. If there is a reason we exist we currently have no idea what it is, so might as well enjoy the ride my way and see what happens at the end.


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## SageHusky (Jan 12, 2007)

Most beliefs are "if you don't believe in me, you're going to hell"
well of course you'll believe in that person so you won't go to a bad place.
when christianity and many other religions were made, fear is the basis to making one believe in an omnipotent being.

I do think we go smewhere when we die. I don't think anyone goes to a 'hell' type place. I have no specific religion except what I believe to be my own.
I don't believe an omnipotent being, but even if there is one it would want us living out our lives the way we choose.

I'd like to think i'm more democrat, with conservative beliefs "for the people"

I am not for gay marriage, marriage = christan bond between male and female. I DO however think there should be something for gay menwomen. Government can make some money off this idea, that's not of a religious hold. Something gives the same meaning as marriage in every aspect, just without the name.

Abortion - Not a touchy subject in my opinion. Abortions will happen wether it's legal or not. The only difference is, one is steril and safe, the other is in a backalley with a rusty coathanger.
I am against it myself, if my daughter were to get pregnant I'd make her have the child. BUT if my friend's daughter per say had a child, it's none of my business.

Pie is something I could go on about for a long time. it is the basis in which we revolve this world. 
Key Lime Pie would definately be the sex part of life.


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## Xipoid (Jan 12, 2007)

Voted for none.


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## Surgat (Jan 12, 2007)

Aside: I'm disappointed that nobody cares about the fact that there is no spoon-ness (or any other properties, or numbers).  



			
				SageHusky said:
			
		

> I am not for gay marriage, marriage = Christian bond between male and female. I DO however think there should be something for gay menwomen. Government can make some money off this idea, that's not of a religious hold. Something gives the same meaning as marriage in every aspect, just without the name.



Non-Christian cultures didn't have marriage? Marriage is the same across all times and cultures? There are no Christian sects that perform marriages between members of the same sex?



			
				SageHusky said:
			
		

> I am against it myself, if my daughter were to get pregnant I'd make her have the child.



Not legally, I don't think. Under Roe V. Wade you don't need parental consent to get an abortion.



			
				SageHusky said:
			
		

> Pie is something I could go on about for a long time. it is the basis in which we revolve this world.
> Key Lime Pie would definitely be the sex part of life.



Pumpkin pie is the One True Pie{tm).


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## rowanwand (Jan 12, 2007)

SageHusky said:
			
		

> I am not for gay marriage, marriage = christan bond between male and female. I DO however think there should be something for gay menwomen. Government can make some money off this idea, that's not of a religious hold. Something gives the same meaning as marriage in every aspect, just without the name.



Sorry, I'm getting married to my woman and I will call it marriage and defend it to the death.  While I respect the fact that you have different beliefs, I feel very upset and offended at the thought that I can't 'marry' the woman I want to marry.  Whatever happened to equal rights for all?

...Which is part of the reason I'm Wiccan and not Christian.  Because although I'm gay, I'm a person too and I am not going to burn in Hell for it. And Paganism is a very accepting religion.

However, I'm not voting on this thread because "Paganism, Other, or F*ck you, I'm a Dragon" is not a choice that particularly appeals to me.  No offense meant to dragons.

Oh yes, I am also very, very liberal.


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## ADF (Jan 12, 2007)

SageHusky said:
			
		

> I am not for gay marriage, *marriage = christan bond between male and female.*


Why do people presume christianity invented marriage? People have been getting married for allot longer than the 2000 years they have been around.

*sigh* this is one of the many reasons I follow no religions; illogical intolerance towards particular groups just because it is written down in their holy text of unknown origin, created by people who didn't even know what the air in front of their faces was let alone the secrets of the universe. Without the bigotry in the Bible would there actually be any reason to be against same sex marriage? Probably only a few Government groups trying to save on tax benefits.


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## skunktoy (Jan 13, 2007)

Blueberry pie!  and Eris loves you! ;-)


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## roxy (Jan 13, 2007)

I'm a farily conservative minded christan baptist. I've never been one to lump myself into a political party but I've voted for more republicans than democrats. I've got no idea what the rest of the poll is about.


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## sid_hates_? (Jan 13, 2007)

my views on such things are not clear enough to satisfy myself let alone try to describe them to others.....and I like cherry pie


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## SageHusky (Jan 13, 2007)

oh, well if christians didn't 'invent' marriage then F YOU i'll marry a guy if I want! hahaha!

to all the rest of you: I don't have a religion either >_> I just believe certain things that are of my own concienciouos decisions


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## Whirlaxis (Jan 14, 2007)

athiest, adults with imaginary friends are stupid.

normally i would jump all over the chance to have a friendly debate with someone over this (ethics and religion are my two main things) but I'm very literally half asleep right now, so if anyone cares to hear my points just drop a post and ill reply in the morning.

edit: my one true religion http://buildingareligion.ytmnd.com/


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## Faukx (Jan 14, 2007)

I voted Pagan, Other or F**ck you im a Dragon!.
why? well, im not realy a pagan, nor am i a dragon (dragons rule tough), and i am other becouse i dont think i like pie is an option for me (i do like pie tough).

I dont realy have a believe, i DO beleve in reincarnation, ghosts positive/negative enteties. I beleve in a god and a godess. in my case i worship Bastet as godess adn Anubis as my god. Why? ive got my reasons and it has nothing to do with the furry stuff. 
Its not that i pray all day and have an altar or somesort, its just the beleve in and having comfort in the feeling that there watching my back and help me channel positive energy into me or others.

I am however realy pasive and it could be that gods do not exist at al but its just the comfort people get from there believe or the comfort if a person does not beleve.
You could also say that beleve has driven most of us mad, or atleast some people. I have seen many wars and trubbles becouse of a clash between diferent religions and sometimes i wish that there where no religions at all becouse of that.
Luckely there are good things becouse of religion, i can't think of one this quick but there are good things XD.

Oh...and i like crumble pie...


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## Moon-Baby (Jan 14, 2007)

only replacing dragon with some different animals.

I don't really have a religion, but I do have my own thoughts on some spiritual stuff.


And Pie.


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## tigermist (Jan 15, 2007)

None of the above. I believe there is a god out there I just haven't found it. I guess that makes me agnostic. Oh the other hand some nice key lime pie would be nice.


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## kyubi_youma (Jan 15, 2007)

doodoo deedoo im i left libertarian and im Mormon by birth (dont you dare make fun of that i _*will*_ defend them with all my heart ) right now im not exactly sure kinda between mother earth and god though.... they are both quite powerful in my opinion maybe they are a couple? *lmao*


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## EmpusaVampirebat (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm a pagan. I believe in two deites who watch over and guide me through my life. I see them as the Goddess Earth and Father Sky.


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## MauEvig (Jul 7, 2008)

Pentecostal Christian. I believe that Jesus is alive today, he died for our sins and rose again and that the Holy Spirit is alive and in our lives too if we accept his sacrifice.



> doodoo deedoo im i left libertarian and im Mormon by birth (dont you dare make fun of that i _*will*_ defend them with all my heart ) right now im not exactly sure kinda between mother earth and god though.... they are both quite powerful in my opinion maybe they are a couple? *lmao*


 
Don't mormons believe in a "Heavenly Mother?" Doesn't sound all that farfetched to me considering what the Mormons believe.
You do mean LDS right? I was in that church once...I regret being in it though.


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## Gobby (Jul 7, 2008)

Surgat said:


> "None" should cover atheism and agnosticism. Atheism and agnosticism aren't religions.


It should be noted that the belief that no gods exist or that the nature of these beings is unknowable is, in a sense, a religious stance as well, as it defines the parameters of your belief in supernatural entities.  Even within the parameters that a religion is a communally recognized set of beliefs, this still applies as there are atheist conventions and while I know of no agnostic conventions, the qualities of agnosticism are easy enough to identify.


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## MauEvig (Jul 7, 2008)

> It should be noted that the belief that no gods exist or that the nature of these beings is unknowable is, in a sense, a religious stance as well, as it defines the parameters of your belief in supernatural entities. Even within the parameters that a religion is a communally recognized set of beliefs, this still applies as there are atheist conventions and while I know of no agnostic conventions, the qualities of agnosticism are easy enough to identify.


 
That said, and well said at that...the only TRUE non-religion then is Agnosticism.


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## Gobby (Jul 7, 2008)

MauEvig said:


> That said, and well said at that...the only TRUE non-religion then is Agnosticism.


The only reason that I wrote what I did is because I misread the last word in the quote, although I think what I said still applies.  

Atheism and Agnosticism, while not technically recognized as religions unto themselves, are still philosophical statements about your belief in supernatural beings, making them religious in nature.  The only true non-religion then is the non-religion.


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 7, 2008)

I like pie, the cherry derivative. There should be I like cake in there too -.-


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## Mayfurr (Jul 7, 2008)

Gobby said:


> Atheism and Agnosticism, while not technically recognized as religions unto themselves, are still philosophical statements about your belief in supernatural beings, making them religious in nature.



But calling atheism a "religion" is like calling bald a hair colour.

PS: Steak and cheese pie, please.


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## WhiteHowl (Jul 7, 2008)

Mayfurr said:


> But calling atheism a "religion" is like calling bald a hair colour.
> 
> PS: Steak and cheese pie, please.



I would first like to state that I am an atheist. Now webster defines religion... actually it defines religious as:
1*:* relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a _religious_ person>  <_religious_ attitudes>
2*:* of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a _religious_ order>
3 a*:* scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b*:* fervent,   zealous
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religious

yeah being an atheist would mean that you do not believe in God, so it can't be called a religion.

Athiest:*:* one who believes that there is no deity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't see Satanism on that list?..



MauEvig said:


> That said, and well said at that...the only TRUE non-religion then is Agnosticism.


Because I'm a bitch, I'll take the liberty to nitpick on this statement:

A)Atheism has nothing to do with religion on any level. On one hand, it's lack of belief in God, on the other, some religions don't have Gods to begin with.

B)Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief in God, but the stance on the knowledge about one. You can be an Agnostic Theist, or an Agnostic Atheist.


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## reigoskeiter (Jul 7, 2008)

i dont belive in anything i wont belive some stories and random junk jibberoush that this god excistst and stuff its not real its someones thought LOL!
i belive in ghostst,spirutral things
so im going to have to go for pie lol


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## Alexander Fire (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm Christian, Anarchist (FREEDOM!) and.. I LOVE PIE!  (also, although I didn't mark it... well... F*ck you I'm a dragon!).
PIE... PIE... PIE...


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## TheGreatCrusader (Jul 7, 2008)

I am Agnostic and a very Liberal motherfucker.


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## Werevixen (Jul 7, 2008)

Agnostic, a spiritual nutjob, and general pie lover as long as it's pudding-free.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Jul 7, 2008)

Where's the "None of the Above" option?  Because I don't really like pie.


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## Thatch (Jul 7, 2008)

I like pie. Mmmmm Cheesecake... Or applepie


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## Gobby (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> Because I'm a bitch, I'll take the liberty to nitpick on this statement:
> 
> A)Atheism has nothing to do with religion on any level. On one hand, it's lack of belief in God, on the other, some religions don't have Gods to begin with.


Couldn't Atheism just as easily be the belief that there is no god instead of a lack of it?  


			
				wikipedia on Atheism said:
			
		

> Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, or the rejection of theism. It is also defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities. Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religions, such as Jainism and Theravada Buddhism, do not require belief in a personal god.


True, it's not a religion (and if I asserted that it was I concede that) but it is a statement about your belief (or lack thereof) in god/s which means that it has at least _something_ to do with religion.


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

Gobby said:


> Couldn't Atheism just as easily be the belief that there is no god instead of a lack of it?


It can be either. There may or may not be any difference, but I don't think even Philosophers and Grammaticiarians have a proper answer to that.



Gobby said:


> True, it's not a religion (and if I asserted that it was I concede that) but it is a statement about your belief (or lack thereof) in god/s which means that it has at least _something_ to do with religion.


And pickles have something to do with golf clubs because they can't be used as one.


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## Gobby (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> And pickles have something to do with golf clubs because they can't be used as one.


What the hell do pickles and golf clubs have to do with anything?  That analogy doesn't even make sense.

Religion A:
Does not believe in any gods, but still maintains a set of communally held moral and lifestyle standards.

Religion A is Atheistic.

Ergo, atheism has something to do with religion, although atheism is not a religion.

Atheism would be like the material the golf club is made out of.


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## Monak (Jul 7, 2008)

I would be classified as a pagan as I worship the Earth.  I just have a hard time taking stock in most modern religions first because they will deny all forms of science , and then hypocritically use the sciences they say are *WRONG , LIES , AND EVIL* to prove something that betters themselves.  Secondly I don't find to many religious folk that are able to do much more then quote the bible , and are unable to then state what their quotations mean.  Then you have the whole free will thing , which really isn't free will , cause god says hey you have free will , *BUT* if you don't worship me and me alone then you will burn in hell.  How is that free will?  It sounds more like the elections in Iraq , yeah you can vote for the other guy but we will cut your hand off if you do.  Then there is the whole Jesus thing I just flat out refuse to follow or worship a man that claims to be god , I mean do we do that now a days? No people that claim to be god now a days are locked in nut houses.  I mean I can walk on water , bought a really nifty pair of canoe shoes , does that mean I am the son of god?  As for Jesus' teachings he seems to have done a good deal of blaspheming and he did it on sunday and that is the reason he was crusified , along with thousands of other Jews who worked on sunday.   

As for the Pie , my fiancee's pie is my favorite


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## Echo_wulf (Jul 7, 2008)

he he awesome lol well personaly i guess i would go under peganism but whatever i still beleive that no matter what you beleive in as long as you beleive in it ^.^ its awesome just dont shuv it in other ppls faces lol i hate that  even if you dont believe in anything ^.^ just be kind to others (that deserve it or not) and your cool but even if you arent kind to some ppl who cares ^.^ just live. but try not to misdirect or disrupt other peoples lives by going out of your way to make sure they have a bad day.... guh lol im trying not to delve to deeply cuz i dunt want to offend anyone eventhough i dont mean to or want to. but i find religiouse discussions awsome as long as those involved can let the conversation go on without arguementsb^.^


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

Gobby said:


> Religion A:
> Does not believe in any gods, but still maintains a set of communally held moral and lifestyle standards.
> 
> * Religion A is Atheistic.*
> ...


Um.*
wat*


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## Monak (Jul 7, 2008)

Gobby said:


> What the hell do pickles and golf clubs have to do with anything?  That analogy doesn't even make sense.
> 
> Religion A:
> Does not believe in any gods, but still maintains a set of communally held moral and lifestyle standards.
> ...



Yes it is , they started the chruch of the flying spaghetti monster


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## LonelyFox (Jul 7, 2008)

im atheist


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## Monak (Jul 7, 2008)

LonelyFox said:


> im atheist



All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

Monak said:


> All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster


Invisible Pink Unicorn. More relevant to the fandom.


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## Monak (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> Invisible Pink Unicorn. More relevant to the fandom.



Yes but the Flying spaghetti monster has tenticles LOL


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

Monak said:


> Yes but the Flying spaghetti monster has tenticles LOL


You're thinking of some other fandom.


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## Monak (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> You're thinking of some other fandom.



I think all octipi would be offended by that lol


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

Monak said:


> I think all octipi would be offended by that lol


Well, I guess I walked right into that one. Good show.


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## Gobby (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> Um.*
> wat*



Would you at least explain what you're having a hard time understanding instead of being an ass.


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

Gobby said:


> Would you at least explain what you're having a hard time understanding instead of being an ass.


*NO.

Being an ass is more fun!

*Well, obviously, I hate trouble understanding the logical link between the two parts of the text I highlighted.


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## therealist (Jul 7, 2008)

My two cents:

No form of government works.  Period.  Anarchism, Marxism, Communism, Rebuplic, Democracy, none of it.  If it did, most of the past civilizations that fell wouldn't have.  Know why they don't work?  Greed.  People are greedy and love money, wealth and material things too much.  Oh yeah and power.  I almost forgot power over others.

As for the Greater Truth behind things, while the person who started this thread may not see it fit to say that God exists, I'm sure this person cannot deny the science behind the existence of "Intelligent Energy," that is, the same kind of energy as electromagnetic radiation, only with the capacity to manipulate itself, environments and other forms of energy.  This theory scientifically explains such things as temperature drops, high EMF readings and Electronic Voice Pheomenon that the so-called "Ghost Hunters" have all found to exist.  It also explains the basis of life itself.  Molecules of hydrocarbons did not start organizing into living cells and performing actions on their own all those millions of years ago.  If that were true, life would have re-evolved millions of times over already.  Scientists proved that living cells can ONLY COME FROM LIVING CELLS... I just read this in my Biology textbook.  Cells did not spontaneously generate.  The chemical processes did not just spontaneously start.  The structures for amino acids and proteins did not just spontaneously combine.  Something, some intelligent form of energy had to start the process.  Because energy exists in all of time and all dimensions, as proved by something called String Theory.

We just so happen to give this "Intelligent Energy" the name God.  Call it what you want.

As for "ghosts" they are all either remnants of or are complete 'bodies' of intelligent energy.  And upon closer evaluation, one may find that life itself operates in harmony with this form of energy.

And that's my two cents, take it as you may.


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

therealist said:


> My two cents:
> 
> No form of government works. Period. Anarchism, Marxism, Communism, Rebuplic, Democracy, none of it. If it did, most of the past civilizations that fell wouldn't have. Know why they don't work? Greed. People are greedy and love money, wealth and material things too much.
> 
> ...


That was a good read up to the point where you descended into trying to talk about things you don't understand.


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## therealist (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> That was a good read up to the point where you descended into trying to talk about things you don't understand.



Okay, what in specific?


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## Draco_2k (Jul 7, 2008)

therealist said:


> Okay, what in specific?


A passing observation. Nevermind me.


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## therealist (Jul 7, 2008)

Draco_2k said:


> A passing observation. Nevermind me.



Hm, okay.  Seriously though if someone wants to set me straight on the record, have at it.  If there's something I'm missing, please let me know >_>

[edit] If it's the String Theory part, that's relatively new in the scientific world, and is still being tested.  But it offers a relatively decent explanation for the intertwining of energy and matter and explanations for the reasons subatomic particles behave the way they do. [/edit]


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## Monak (Jul 7, 2008)

therealist said:


> Hm, okay.  Seriously though if someone wants to set me straight on the record, have at it.  If there's something I'm missing, please let me know >_>
> 
> [edit] If it's the String Theory part, that's relatively new in the scientific world, and is still being tested.  But it offers a relatively decent explanation for the intertwining of energy and matter and explanations for the reasons subatomic particles behave the way they do. [/edit]



Your missing one connection , the reason that governments fail , isn't because of flaws in the systems themselves , its the flaws with in the individuals within the system.  Which ties into the whole can of worms that is religion , to create a stable working government one must be free of individual ideals and agendas or you will fail every time.  Like here in the united states , it was writen to have a seperation of church and state , but since then that seperation has been made into a weapon to protect the convictions of those in power. But I myself have gone too far on where to place blame for the simple fact that man as a whole still hasn't evolved past the tribal mind and ended up coming too far and too fast.  For us to move forward we have to shove ideals aside and focus on a common goal , or we will never move out of the tribal mind.


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## Bambi (Jul 8, 2008)

*Paganism*

I:

Believe that something could'nt have come from nothing. While some people might view the individuals choice to adopt or foster religious concepts as an attempt to cope with ones own mortality and sense of helplessness, it is not infact law that death is blackness or an absolute. With that stated, I consider myself a pagan because none of my beliefs would fall under the categories associated with the House of Abraham.

*Objectivist, Libertarian*

While minimizing the state's control would be important to some Libertarians, it is not in my own interest, nessecary until Corruption takes our government. I believe that some basic Libertarian's make the mistake to ignore government control or responsibility, because for example: Without a system of political or natural checks and balances, people will get out of hand (corruption is as capable to a man without power as it is to a man with it).


Also, I'm more of a Green Libertarian; seeking a balance between the economy and our nations ecology. I'm also morally objectionistic, in the sense that we need a stronger and more controlled sense of it (morality). For another example, I believe that the states form of "just killing murderers" is sort of endorsing the whole legend itself and gives the people access to power that requires more responsibility. I feel that the death sentence is morally incompatible, not only with our government and its people, but even within our own natures and myself.

*Universals*

None of these are exactly the same but derive from metaphysics. I, at one time or another, believed one almost exclusively.

Now, it's sort of my own belief that all of these might compliment one or another in certain instances (some of the choices that where listed). Let's start with Universals; a man who fights for pie and a man who fights for cake share a _similiar_ *universal* in that they both appear to be fighting for dessert. In my case, I see that the struggle against a corrupt system can also be paralled with a struggle against corrupt individuals who exploit the system. Here is where I believe in some fundementals of Universal - Metaphysical thought (an example of my own sense of morality.)

*Abstraction, (Abstract Particulars)*

Since I've done a lot of scripting in Operation Flashpoint, I also have used forms of abstraction. (CAR_TYPE: Skoda) (CAR_COLOUR_STATEMENT: (true, false, blue #??????, red #?????? etc.) [Algebra is also abstract mathematical thought] 

In terms of Abstract Particulars, where for example, a Grey Hound Bus could simply be abstracted to, Transportation, I've used this reasoning from time to time (suffice to say even reasoning is abstract). Or, for some people who believe in another element of it, a chair or table floating in space could be real, possible, or made to exist; but abstract because its not concretely established that either of those things exist in Space. God's would've been a better but more confusing example.

*Panpychism*
Panpychism is a fun one -- remember when we where kids and may have swore up and down (at least I did) that our stuffed animals could've been watching us? Panpychism interprets that all matter, dead or alive, has some cognitive ability. Of course, depending on your school of thought, cognitive in that it acts out a thinking pattern without however, having cognitive intelligence or the ability to prove or execute there of. 


Yeah, I believe that all matter is connected in some way (thats just the religious summary of the thought). Remember Poka-haunt-us -- where she's singing that she knows, " ... every rock and tree and creature, has a life, has a spirit, has a name?" Panpychism in metaphysical theory.

*Dualism*

Dualism is an interesting one -- good and evil, is essentially the act. Of course, some people propose dualism through a Kaledoscope of realism; such as predator or prey. I do believe in the act myself.

*Physicalism*

Think that your chairs more real then God? Then Physicalism is for you. I believe that chairs exist, and determine that not only through our knowledge to create them, but because our senses tell us that the object is there. That, and the fact things we don't create, such as Rocks, exist and can be acknowledged through the senses. Just to ruin the loop hole, animals also have to negotiate these same physical properties, which states to me reality isn't just a thing that the human experiences alone.

I _told_ you guys I'm a mixed bag of things! X3


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## MauEvig (Jul 8, 2008)

> My two cents:
> 
> No form of government works. Period. Anarchism, Marxism, Communism, Rebuplic, Democracy, none of it. If it did, most of the past civilizations that fell wouldn't have. Know why they don't work? Greed. People are greedy and love money, wealth and material things too much. Oh yeah and power. I almost forgot power over others.
> 
> ...


 
That's actually a very fascinating concept. I'd like to hear more actually. Though I don't believe in the theory of evolution...I believe in the theory of Creation.
It would make for a very interesting explanation of what the soul is, what exists beyond our realm and our spiritual bodies and spiritual creator.
If the spirit is energy, I'm cool with that. It explains then how the immortal soul could be possible as well.


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## Draco_2k (Jul 8, 2008)

MauEvig said:


> TThough I don't believe in the theory of evolution...I believe in the theory of Creation.


Oh what's this.


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## pheonix (Jul 14, 2008)

I posted this on the religion thread hope you like. I believe in lots of things I call it not putting all your eggs in one basket. I believe in a few religions but also have my own theories on existence. heres one have you ever had de ja vu? we all know the theory of the big bang. well they also say eventually the universe will get so big it will rip and collapse on itself. well I think sometime after this point the big bang will happen again starting things over. de ja vu are the points in your life you can't change and must repeat over and over or things destine to happen thus we live the same life over and over again. I have a few others but this is by far my favorite. It make a lot of since doesn't it?


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## FurTheWin (Jul 14, 2008)

MauEvig said:


> I believe in the theory of Creation.


That's not a theory, it's a hypothesis at best. It won't become a theory until there are evidence to support it.

In layman's terms it could be called a theory, but a layman's theory is not more than a scientific hypothesis. In science a theory is the highest something can get, like the theory of gravity. A scientific theory is in layman's terms a fact.


Now, on topic:
I'm an agnostic libertarian atheist that likes pie. I consider myself a realist, though I don't fully understand the concepts around the two last parts of the poll.


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## ExTo (Jul 14, 2008)

I would be atheist marxist-ish social democrat. Whom likes pie, of course.

I'll stick to the marxist point above all : I'm not a communist as we've seen it from USSR or China, in that those were hardly communist at all but rather authoritarian dictatorhips with a nameless abomination of an economic system that was definitely not capitalism but butchered half the basics of communism as intended by Marx and his close colleagues. Above all, communism can only function inside a clear and transparent democracy, IMO.

Just a head's up so I don't look like a crazy bastard who wants to concentrate all power in the hands of an equally crazy party.


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## LoinRockerForever (Jul 14, 2008)

nobuyuki said:


> -is- there an option for agnostics?
> 
> one for skeptic would be good too even if you have a religion



Agreed, and <---apple Pie.



As far as all that goes....I just ignore it. I mean I will respect your choice, but honestly I don't care. I only care if you trend on me, you know?


Other than that, do what you want and be happy. Thats my way of thinking, its just too bad not many embrace that idea.


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## nutcasenightmare (May 10, 2009)

Atheist, primarily because of Occam's Razor and lack of solid evidence logically necessitating the concept of an omnipotent, omnipresent, or omnibenevolent being to explain the world.  As for the unknown mysteries of life, death, the beginning of the universe, and consciousness, it's best to leave it at "I Don't Know" than to make the God Hypothesis the default.

----

I'm anarchist, but NOT Marxist.  (To be fair, he's still quite a smart guy)  I'm also libertarian, but NOT, DEFINITELY NOT Objectivist.  (I think Ayn Rand's development of moral theory is just the naturalistic fallacy rewritten, and that minarchy isn't a consistent political position.  Also Ayn Rand thinks libertarians plagiarize off of HER: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians) 

So yeah, libertarian anarchist.  Like David Friedman or Murray Rothbard.  Yay private polycentric law.

Surgat:  _"However, itâ€™s pretty reasonable to disbelieve in Natural rights: Iâ€™ve never seen a natural right-of-way existing absent of humans and their conventions and behavior, and can think of no way to test for one. This rules out Objectivism and certain forms of Libertarianism."_ 

I totally agree with this, actually!  "Rights" are just concepts we use to describe things we take for granted.  Property rights, for example, have arisen from individuals before, not because on moral grounds, but because property rights is a convenient way to avoid the tragedy of the commons.  (I also oppose the alternative of a coercive monopoly government because if you think people are selfish, the last thing you'll want is for the selfish to have monopoly rule over you.  Sure, some government perhaps, but not monopoly.)

EDIT: might as well mention I'm a free-market environmentalist like Bambi.  I support private roads and carbon emissions trading, which would reduce the incentive to use cars/pollute, thus mitigating global warming.  If that doesn't work, civil tort law ftw. 

------

Physicalism, because of Occam's Razor.  Science has also shown phenomena and strong links between the brain and the mind that the fuzzy concept of a soul fails to explain properly. (i.e. split personalities, or personality changes after brain trauma.)

------

Conceptualism, because what we experience, really, is all in our heads.  Also being a pragmatist, I think abstractions such as words and numbers are useful for at least understanding the mechanisms of what might be going on in reality.  (And that's why I'm conceptualist, not nominalist.)

However, when words and definitions backfire, it's best to stop using such fuzzy concepts.  For example, morality.  It's defined as what you SHOULD do, but there is no consensus as to WHAT you should do.  As Hume demonstrated, one can never derive an 'ought' from an 'is'.  Which is why I'm also a nihilist by default.

~Nutcasenightmare
  Bored and new to the forums.


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## Chiasm (May 10, 2009)

I hit Paganism, seeing as that's probably closest to what I actually am.

Although I don't really beleive in Gods and magic and stuff...

I choose to beleive following logic and what evidence I can find, what science tells us. But that by no way means I'm an atheist. I reckon there are things out there, forces and what not. Not some giant in the sky with a big white beard zapping people to hell for being naughty or anything, but there has to be something. We just don't know enough about it to realise just what _it_ is yet. Hell, we may have even already discovered it and just haven't realised.

Some of these weird and wacky things that physics has discovered, Bose-Einstien condensates, that weird "God" particle and things like that. There is some weird stuff out there.

Anyway, enough of the rambling. I put pagan because of my belief that the earth is a living being. The whole Gaia theory and stuff, may sound kind of like I'm jumping on the band wagon, but I've seen a fair bit of evidence for that theory recently.


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## Captain Howdy (May 10, 2009)

I'm an Atheist, somewhat of an Agnostic Theist at times, but really I just don't believe, and fail to see any reason why I should.


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## Bellini Tabloid (May 10, 2009)

Wow, this thread is old


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## pheonix (May 10, 2009)

I posted in this thread 10 days after I joined, oh the memories. 

Also: Fucking necroing. D:


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## Bellini Tabloid (May 10, 2009)

pheonix said:


> I posted in this thread 10 days after I joined, oh the memories.
> 
> Also: Fucking necroing. D:


Man, does the ancient history follow


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## -Lucario- (May 10, 2009)

Pumpkin pie + whip cream > all ur pies. Blueberry pie is my only acception.

Btw nice 2 year necro.


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