# How do I enjoy TF2?



## Schwimmwagen (Dec 30, 2011)

Now first let me tell you that I actually like the TF2 universe. Yeah, I enjoy the Gmod shite that gets made, I use memes, I enjoy the characters, the art style pleases me, and other stuff like that. Thing is though, I don't like the game itself. I have a couple of friends who have well over one thousand hours of playing TF2, and I thought I'd go ahead and join them. After all, I hear so many great things about it, it's popular as hell, so why not? Then I found out that I didn't like it. At all. I have over 33 hours played, and I hated every second of it. *

I fucking hated it. I really fucking hated every single fucking second of it. If I was closed-minded about games, I would call this the worst fucking game I have ever fucking played to this day.*

Now, I have a good history of getting into games that I found impossible to play before, and just about all of them, I managed to learn to love. But why is TF2 so different in this case? I'm trying to enjoy this, I really am.

The main problem is that I have no room in learning how to play. The most important thing in enjoying a game is knowing how to play it. Shall I go on the tutorial and practise mode? Well, I did the tutorial twice. Doesn't teach me anything more than how to shoot things, how a class' weapon behaves, and the goals in the different gamemodes. And that's it. There's tons of little things to learn in TF2, yet there is no information provided by the game itself. Now, Killing Floor is guilty of this, but unlike TF2, there is tons of room to learn these things through the use of lower difficulty settings (as well as a community that is willing to help new players, but the behaviour of the community deteriorated so horribly after a TF2/KF crossover promotional event which involved two TF2 items called "Foster's Facade" and "Stockbroker's Scarf." Coincidence? I think not). So, anyway, could I just play TF2 with bots for a while? No, that won't work. TF2 is a game to be played against human players, and the AI bots do not have any similar behaviour to human players, so that is simply not an option.

In a game where pretty much every player has racked up hundreds of hours and unlocked all sorts of overpowered gear, it's impossible to experiment with something new without dying in three seconds. You could say "but Gibby, your beloved Red Orchestra behaves the same way in terms of the players dying in less than a second" but that is no answer. In Red Orchestra, you have to use real world tactics and your environment and positioning before you get your kills. Just think in game as you would in a real life situation that involves you being in a gunfight. It pretty much says that on the tin, and anyone who has this information is perfectly able to outperform even the most experienced RO vets in their first couple of games. But TF2... TF2 is all too different. No similar logic seems to apply.

It doesn't help that the community makes Combat Arms look like a gentlemen's club, either. If I so much as ask for a tip in a small area, I get shat on by the utterly horrible little retards that make up the majority of those I have met in every single Valve game ever. If I ask anything, I just get a barrage of "lol n00b" from virtually every player in the server. But at least I got some kind of response. Fucking my grandmother is apparently a good way to get some scrap metal.

What annoys me most is that I can do what is apparently the very same thing to another player, but _I_ get the shitty end of the stick, every time. What gives? Oh, look. A guy was using "The Faecellator" or what-the-fuck-ever. How do I get one of those? Oh, I have to get it by playing the game for a few more hours? So, wait, does that mean I have to suffer through this utterly unentertaining bullshit? Get fucked. It's just not fun at all. I can see why this game can be fun, it sounds fun, but in the end, it just simply isn't fucking fun at all. Oh, so to put myself in a better standing in the game, I can just buy some guns that are actually worth shit instead? Fuck right off. I bought this game with my money, and I was promised a fun, fair game. So now I have to pay to win, too? 

God.

I'm _trying_, I really am. All I want to do is learn to enjoy this stupid game like pretty much everyone else on the planet.

How the fuck do I do that?


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## Takun (Dec 30, 2011)

W+M1


edit: Going to ACTUALLY give you an answer, but that was too much to pass up.  Give me a bit.

Crafting: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafting
Weapons: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Weapons
Achievement weapons: http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Achievement_weapons


Stock weapons are great, most new items are sidegrades with a few exceptions.


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## SirRob (Dec 30, 2011)

If you have to try to enjoy a game, then it's not worth it for you to play.


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## Aleu (Dec 30, 2011)

Play against bots on an easy mode to get the hang of it or play with friends. Also for items, basically what Takun had linked. You could also always check the wiki for hints and stuff.

EDIT: Wait, when did you get the game? It's free now :/


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 30, 2011)

Aleu said:


> Play against bots on an easy mode to get the hang of it or play with friends. Also for items, basically what Takun had linked. You could also always check the wiki for hints and stuff.
> 
> EDIT: Wait, when did you get the game? It's free now :/



I'm afraid botting is no option. If I'm performing exceptionally well against bots, but so damn poorly against human players, there's definitely something wrong. D:

And I got the game before it was free. In fact, I had it for the xbox when it first came out (orange box).



SirRob said:


> If you have to try to enjoy a game, then it's not worth it for you to play.



It's more about wanting to join in with what friends are doing for once, so there's something we can all enjoy together. Few people seem to like the games that I play.


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## SirRob (Dec 30, 2011)

Gibby said:


> It's more about wanting to join in with what friends are doing for once, so there's something we can all enjoy together. Few people seem to like the games that I play.


Well heck, if you want to play to join in with your friends, why don't you learn while playing with them? I'm sure they'd go easier on you and help you practice.


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## Kaamos (Dec 30, 2011)

Play Medic, find a good buddy and observe what he does for a while, even better if that buddy is your friend. 

If you want to get the feel for new weapons in a safe environment go get tr_walkway (or whatever the latest version is it's been a while since I played) and test it on the bots there.


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## CerbrusNL (Dec 30, 2011)

I suggest having a look here:
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Category:Strategy
Specifically, the basic class strategies, listed under "B". Then, there's a automatch feature that should get you into a starters server, as far as I know.


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## Conker (Dec 30, 2011)

You played a game you hate for 33+ hours? That's some crazy masochism there.


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## TechnoGypsy (Dec 30, 2011)

This game might just be the exception. I wouldn't fuss over it.


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## Carnie (Dec 30, 2011)

I've had this exact same experience. I just don't know. I couldn't like it no matter how hard I tried.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 30, 2011)

SirRob said:


> Well heck, if you want to play to join in with your friends, why don't you learn while playing with them? I'm sure they'd go easier on you and help you practice.



Oh, I did do that before. They normally like playing games with me, but TF2 seemed to be the exception here. :/

Anyway, cheers for the links and advice so far, guys. :>


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## Aetius (Dec 30, 2011)

Never play as spy, only people with high egos like me can handle it.


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## Seas (Dec 30, 2011)

Maybe you could try a non-casual team-based game, like Global Agenda? 
It's also free now, the community is incomparably better, the customization is much deeper, and the game's matchmaking pits you against players with similar level to yours.


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## Querk (Dec 30, 2011)

1. Play and get your ass kicked until you stop sucking. Play every class a few times to know how they behave so it's easier to counter a certain class when you run into one.

2. Items pretty much fucked the game up. Although, other than a few items that have incredibly stupid effects (the Pyro's new flamethrower that gives him fucking invincibility, the Scout's stun), the differences between stock items and new ones is pretty minuscule. Don't worry about unlocking them just yet, just practice with what you have.

3. Play on a server that doesn't have assholes. There are plenty of fun servers out there. Just join some with people you know or play until you find a server you like and favorite it. Some I play on are Voogru servers (which also has dodgeball servers, a fun mod that makes you a total badass if you're good at it) and Furry Pound servers. You can also try a Valve server to practice on noobs. Just make sure you aren't playing a 36-man server if you want to be able to play without weapon spam.

4. There are item and idling servers where you can get weapons if you really want them. But still, sidegrades aren't really necessary except for a few that drastically change the class.

5. If you want to win every game, go Demoman. Spam pills, get kills.


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## Aidy (Dec 30, 2011)

I just play as Demoman and spam bomb things everywhere and detonate randomly, it gets results.


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## shteev (Dec 30, 2011)

inb4 lol n00b

But yeah, I don't play that game too often.

(Then again Skyrim and Saints Row: The Third have taken up all of my time.)


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## Pine (Dec 30, 2011)

It's an FPS that hardcore gamers and casual gamers can both enjoy. That and it's balanced (unless you argue about the huntsman or backburner) unlike most FPS games they make nowadays. *cough* Call of Duty

If you really want to practice weapons or different classes, I know a server you can play on where it's just deathmatch with no real goals or time limits.


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## Corto (Dec 30, 2011)

Meh, I've had the game since before launch (got it as part of my payment for translating for the Steam Support Wiki back in '06) but have barely played once or twice a year since then (I've NEVER had a computer that could properly run the game, alternatively using my former roomate's notebook or my lil' brother's PC when visiting my home city). I've managed to get a million items while idling for months (don't know how) but mostly use the standard loadout because I can't be bothered ot learn how to use new items with my very poor gameplay time. I always have mad fun, though. How? Here's my tips:
1- Never use the spy or sniper. Seriously, fuck them. 
2- Don't try to beat everyone's score. Just be a team player, help your team achieve it's objective.
3- Fuck Fort2 (or however that terrible map is called). 
4- Find a server with lots of nice, awesome users (don't know if it's a coincidence, but the best local servers I've found are a competitive server for clan fights normally open to regulars users and filled with Chilean furries, or a brony server with ponies everywhere). Realize half the fun is in the chat and comments. 
5- Just find the class you love the most (engineer, pyro or demo for me) and stick with them.
6- Ignore the weapons they sell. The "overpower" they offer is mostly ignorable, and I've never bought a single item (seriously they may buy the "Dark Matter cannon of making everything explode in one hit" but it's balanced so you have a chance, and their users burn just as well when applying the default flamethrower, besides it takes like 10 minutes to get a better weapon you'll never learn to use).
7- Seriously fuck the spy. It's the worst class ever, no fun to play as, and fuck them oh God they're terrible why do they exist.


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## Conker (Dec 30, 2011)

You know, if you've logged 33+ hours in and are still not good at the game and haven't grasped it, the game probably isn't for you. It's not like it's THAT complicated. 

I find the soldier to be the best "noob friendly" class though. ROCKETS ROCKETS ROCKETS! That's what I started out with, and I had a ton of fun. Engineer isn't exactly "noob friendly", but he's great for defense. Set up a small base around an objective and just wait. Turrets help ya kill things. Very fun.


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## Aetius (Dec 30, 2011)

Corto said:


> 7- Seriously fuck the spy. It's the worst class ever, no fun to play as, and fuck them oh God they're terrible why do they exist.



Somebody is a Heavy player :V


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## Corto (Dec 31, 2011)

I hate playing as heavy. Haven't done so in, oh, 3 or so years. I don't mean I dislike being owned by spies (hardly happens, I move too much), but rather that I found them incredibly boring (and hard as fuck) to play as.


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## Aetius (Dec 31, 2011)

Corto said:


> I hate playing as heavy. Haven't done so in, oh, 3 or so years. I don't mean I dislike being owned by spies (hardly happens, I move too much), but rather that I found them incredibly boring (and hard as fuck) to play as.



Spies have to be the most frustrating class to play as, specially on CTF maps. 

If you are new, they can instantly make you hate the game.


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## Runefox (Dec 31, 2011)

> Doesn't teach me anything more than how to shoot things, how a class' weapon behaves, and the goals in the different gamemodes.



So because the game doesn't hand you strategy and instead just gives you the tools you need to make your own strategies, you hate it.

Out of all the reasons to hate TF2 (balance issues, the fact that new stuff keeps breaking the game, crashes, glitches, etc), you chose that as your number one.

Really.


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## TreacleFox (Dec 31, 2011)

I ENJOY IT WITH A $70 HAT.


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## Aleu (Dec 31, 2011)

Querk said:


> 4. There are item and idling servers where you can get weapons if you really want them. But still, sidegrades aren't really necessary except for a few that drastically change the class.


Not anymore. Iirc they got rid of them, deeming idling as cheating to get items. If you want the items, you got to put effort in your game.


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## TreacleFox (Dec 31, 2011)

I just remembered, if you want to get achivements, there is a cracked server that allows you to get every single achivment in the game in 5 seconds exept a few such as the replay achivments. The server name is "modme.info TF2 achievment mod" at the IP "188.40.66.150:27015".


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## CerbrusNL (Dec 31, 2011)

Aleu said:


> Not anymore. Iirc they got rid of them, deeming idling as cheating to get items. If you want the items, you got to put effort in your game.



I'm a admin on a idle server. They still exist, they're still allowed, and there's still quite a demand for them.
Server name:
[24/7]: Syder's Idle Server  :: What's your next item?
Figure it out for the rest 

Idle tools, on the other hand, were banned. Those tools simulated a connection to the steam/valve servers, getting you "false" game time, and items. Those tools don't work any more, any way.
Idle servers are simply servers, configured not to kick players for inactivity. That's all there is to it. While it might be so that a lot of idle servers have a damage-over-time area where you spawn, this has absolutely no effect on item drops.

Now, there's a third method to idle, without needing a server. Basically, you host a map yourself, and keep TF2 running, on that map, in text mode. 

You can try it yourself, by just making a shortcut with these parameters:
"E:\Program Files\Steam\steam.exe" -applaunch 440 -textmode -nosound -novid -noreplay -nojoy -sw -maxplayers 2 +sv_lan 1 +map "itemtest"
Don't be alarmed when you don't see team fortress start, but a console-like display. That's still TF2, but as light as it could possibly get.



TreacleFox said:


> I just remembered, if you want to get achivements, there is a cracked server that allows you to get every single achivment in the game in 5 seconds exept a few such as the replay achivments. The server name is "modme.info TF2 achievment mod" at the IP "188.40.66.150:27015".



The server I'm administrating has a similar plugin, but with a ~1 sec delay between each achievement...
But there's no fun in that. If you can, try to get achievements without such plugins. Much more rewarding.


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## Schwimmwagen (Dec 31, 2011)

Runefox said:


> So because the game doesn't hand you strategy and instead just gives you the tools you need to make your own strategies, you hate it.
> 
> Out of all the reasons to hate TF2 ([/COLOR]balance issues, the fact that new stuff keeps breaking the game, crashes, glitches, etc), you chose that as your number one.
> 
> Really.



Pretty much every single game I play does not hand strategy to me at all, but gives me the tools to make my own strategies, like you described. Hell, I even named just a couple of the games I play that are like that. You obviously haven't played them yourself, so don't you pass that kind of judgement. And pretty much every game there is has some kind of balance issue or something that is questionably OP or UP so I tend to let that kind of thing slide within a discussion, and I have not had a single stability issue in my time playing TF2. Really.


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## Querk (Dec 31, 2011)

Aleu said:


> Not anymore. Iirc they got rid of them, deeming idling as cheating to get items. If you want the items, you got to put effort in your game.


http://i44.tinypic.com/v4sdiu.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2utjka1.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2iu572q.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/w63dk.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/ok8lj6.jpg

There are also trade servers if you want something and have something to trade for it. Though you probably don't at this point.


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## Neovius (Dec 31, 2011)

Unlockable weapons are just sidegrades, some vanilla weapons are still a best choice (for example scout's scattergun), but it's a matter of play style, some weapons are weaker, but easier to use and vice versa, some change a play style of a class completely, though some weapons are a little better than vanilla.
Try to play on vanilla servers (no shitty instant respawns, and other modifications that just ruin balance of the game). Also blacklist nightteam and saigns.de servers (pay to win servers, where their premium players are insanely overpowered)... Yeah and don't use the automatic server finder, it most of the time finds modified servers even if they are blacklisted


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## Unsilenced (Dec 31, 2011)

I had pretty much the same experience as you did when I first joined. Had it on Xbox with the orange box. 

Didn't even last as long as you did before going, "Fuck it. Back to Portal." 

Coming back to it many months later, I was eventually able to get the hang of it on xbox, and from there eventually moved to the PC version. 

As a rule, unlockable weapons aren't always "better," they just let you be more adaptable. Depends on the player. What one player thinks is hopelessly OP another might find completely useless. As you start to unlock things you'll find ones you like. Personally I shelled out a few bucks for things like the ambassador (not worth it), the backburner (worth it) and the brass beast (fuck yeah worth it.) 

Your mileage may vary.


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## Conker (Dec 31, 2011)

Neovius said:


> Unlockable weapons are just sidegrades, *some vanilla weapons are still a best choice (for example scout's scattergun)*, but it's a matter of play style, some weapons are weaker, but easier to use and vice versa, some change a play style of a class completely, though some weapons are a little better than vanilla.
> Try to play on vanilla servers (no shitty instant respawns, and other modifications that just ruin balance of the game). Also blacklist nightteam and saigns.de servers (pay to win servers, where their premium players are insanely overpowered)... Yeah and don't use the automatic server finder, it most of the time finds modified servers even if they are blacklisted


Force A Nature has a problem with you >:3


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## Neovius (Jan 1, 2012)

Conker said:


> Force A Nature has a problem with you >:3



FaN sucks ;>


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## Unsilenced (Jan 1, 2012)

Personally I'm a fan of that one that does the minicrit thing. Great for doing hit-and-run.


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## Conker (Jan 1, 2012)

Neovius said:


> FaN sucks ;>


I disagree. The extra jump makes it better.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 1, 2012)

Gibby, oh did I have a laugh when I backstabbed you after succesful Dead ringer. And your comments afterwards made it a ton better


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## Schwimmwagen (Jan 1, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> Gibby, oh did I have a laugh when I backstabbed you after succesful Dead ringer. And your comments afterwards made it a ton better



I forgot what I said

lets keep it that way :v


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## Aetius (Jan 1, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> Gibby, oh did I have a laugh when I backstabbed you after succesful Dead ringer. And your comments afterwards made it a ton better



Dead Ringer+Eternal Reward= Epic Faceroll.


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## RedSavage (Jan 1, 2012)

WELCOME TO CC'S SHORT AND CHEAP STRATEGY GUIDE FOR EVERY DAMN CLASS. (One at a time, starting with Scout, cause he's a cool class).

Yes, a lot of it will just be repeating what may or may not be already obvious in the gaming community, but to the average friendly newbie, this may be fun!

ALSO THIS IS JUST TIPS FOR VANILLA WEAPONS CAUSE I'M ASSUMING YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE.

SCOUT

Quick and fast little bastard with a big fucking gun. Seriously. The scatter gun at close range can kill most anyone with two or so direct hits. Problem is, Scout's health is stupid low.

SCOUT PRO-TIPS:

Never stop moving. EVER. Be annoying. Run around corners and take two shots with a pistol and run off again. The Scout is one hell of a decoy or distraction, because he's annoying as hell, but it's fun as shit for people who just like to bounce around and dick about. Bounce around and use the double-jump to change direction in mid-fucking-air to annoy the shit out of Snipers. 

Get up close and personal with Medics, Heavies, Snipers, other Scouts, and Engineers (if they don't have a sentry set up yet). But the KEY is to never take an enemy head on. Hit 'em from the side or behind so they don't notice you. You're fast enough that most times they won't know what hit them. Keep your distance from Pyros, Soldiers, Spies, and Demomen though. Pyro for the obvious reason of being an utter horror to be near, and Soldiers and Demomen because they can just aim explosives at their feet to blow you into a bunch of giblets. Also I say spies because facestabs fucking suck and it's easier to just shoot from a distance using your pistol. 

Pro-note: Scatter guns are shit unless you can get close. Pistol is your best friend and surprisingly effecetive.

 Also, USE YOUR BAT (with the exception of Soldiers and Demomen). A bouncing and flailing Scout all up in your face is surprisingly hard to hit, since you can sneak up without a shotgun alerting the enemy to your presence. . Also, you can stand on Heavies heads, and they don't even know what the fuck is going on when you start wailing on them with a bat, which is quick and does a rather decent amount of damage. 

LAST AND FINAL TIP. Medics pretty much don't heal Scouts. So you're on your own. Engineers are better best friends. Especially when you can lure people into the sentry gun's line of fire. :3c


TUNE IN NEXT TIME FOR ANOTHER CLASS TIP! WHAT SHOULD IT BE? LEMME KNOW YOU N00BLETS AND MAYBE I'LL SHARE THIS AWESOME AMOUNT OF OBVIOUS INFO. :U

Or you can just go onto YouTube and look up some awesome tutorial vids. c: This guy makes the best btw: http://www.youtube.com/user/EvilDaedalus

Also fuck totally friend me I'm CoyoteCaliente. We'll hit up an empty server and I'll let you kill me until you're good at it. c:


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## Runefox (Jan 1, 2012)

Gibby said:


> Pretty much every single game I play does not hand strategy to me at all, but gives me the tools to make my own strategies, like you described. Hell, I even named just a couple of the games I play that are like that. You obviously haven't played them yourself, so don't you pass that kind of judgement. And pretty much every game there is has some kind of balance issue or something that is questionably OP or UP so I tend to let that kind of thing slide within a discussion, and I have not had a single stability issue in my time playing TF2. Really.


I've_obviously_ played Red Orchestra, Combat Arms, Killing Floor, and pretty much whatever you can name off I've at least loaded up and played for a while; Killing Floor in particular occupied about a year of my life. Unlike TF2, neither of those prior games offer any tutorial to speak of (though Killing Floor gives you some pointers), but since they play similarly overall (with varying degrees of realism), you do fine, because that's what you're used to. Your problem seems to lie in the fact that TF2 is more or less the antithesis of realism, and you can't adapt to the style of movement and overall gameplay that it has to offer. That isn't really a fault of the game, but more the player. Similarly, a TF2 player who can't adapt the other way around might complain that Red Orchestra or Killing Floor play too slowly and movement is too limited, thus they can't form any kind of strategy - Particularly, for example, if they come up against a hidden sniper in RO, and without the vivid visual cues that games like TF2 provide, can't pinpoint their location nor properly deal with them. Wildly different games like these require a distinct mindsets. The fact that you chose this as your largest reason to hate TF2 is why I pass that kind of judgement.


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## Azure (Jan 1, 2012)

you dont. its even staler than cod


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## Neovius (Jan 2, 2012)

I would add something to that scout strategy. As CC said, never attack  head on, always take a side route and try to ambush people... after  someone notices you when you're shooting him and is a class that will  probably kill you fast (Heavy, Soldier,...), retreat and try to surprise them again from different side.
About the engineer friend part, use dispensers to get healed and don't forget to spam X+5 
Also  don't use teleporters as a scout, you are fast and can get to the front  lines quickly, so leave the teleporters for slower classes.




Azure said:


> you dont. its even staler than cod



But it has HATS!


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