# Hard wrap: y/n



## Ursa Maximus (Jan 21, 2015)

I post my stories in .txt format like a good boy should, but one of the most irritating things about that is losing almost complete control over how the story looks. The worst is the tiny default font and massive width of the display area on the FA submission page for written work.

I decided early on to hard wrap my text, adding line breaks at 120 characters (as wide as is reasonable given the default font size). I think it makes my stories more readable, onscreen on the desktop under default settings, but fucks things up on mobile or if you tweak the text size of the page. The experience on a desktop browser with no tweaks is most important to me but I'd like to know what y'all think.

Hard warp: y/n and why?


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## Fopfox (Jan 21, 2015)

I have not submitted anything yet, so perhaps I'm exposing my ignorance here, but .txt is considered the norm? I mean, anyone can download a free .doc compatible program and it would keep the formatting good.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack. I just don't understand why .txt would be preferable considering all the formatting issues it creates.


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 22, 2015)

Submit a PDF and face that FA sucks for text submission because they don't auto read and display stuffs.


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## SkyeLansing (Jan 22, 2015)

Fopfox said:


> I have not submitted anything yet, so perhaps I'm exposing my ignorance here, but .txt is considered the norm? I mean, anyone can download a free .doc compatible program and it would keep the formatting good.



Yes and no. You can submit a number of formats (PDF, .doc, .txt) but FA itself can only parse .txt because dev priorities lay elsewhere I presume. This means that if anyone goes to view your story they will have to download the hosted file themselves in order to read it - the text won't be displayed on the site.

Most users *WILL NOT DO THIS*. It is an extra step, which means extra work separating them from your content. Even if it is easy to do it is far easier for them to just click on another link with an image. Fact of life is that when it comes to internetting people are lazy. Unless they have a reason to _really_ want to see your content then they aren't going to bother. So, is it required? No. But general consensus seems to be that you will be more likely to actually have people read your stuff if it is in .txt format.



On the hard wrap question:
My personal vote is no. This is because while hard wrap will look better on a high res screen it looks really, _really_, *really* bad on a lower resolution or if someone has the window re-sized to only take up part of the screen. This is, unfortunately, another area where the lack of attention to writing kinda bones a whole portion of the community (though to be fair, writing was never the focus of FA anyway).

A compromise I see fairly often is people putting the text of the story in the submission comments and then providing a PDF or word document as the file. This way, although FA cannot parse .doc or .pdf files people can still read the story without downloading something, but download a file to print out with nicer formatting if they wish to do so.


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## BadRoy (Jan 22, 2015)

Like SkyeLansing said most users will not go the distance and click that 'Download' button. 

If you go through the minor trouble of formatting your text and saving as .txt you will be already a step above most FA writers.


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 22, 2015)

SkyeLansing said:


> Yes and no. You can submit a number of formats (PDF, .doc, .txt) but FA itself can only parse .txt because dev priorities lay elsewhere I presume. This means that if anyone goes to view your story they will have to download the hosted file themselves in order to read it - the text won't be displayed on the site.
> 
> Most users *WILL NOT DO THIS*. It is an extra step, which means extra work separating them from your content. Even if it is easy to do it is far easier for them to just click on another link with an image. Fact of life is that when it comes to internetting people are lazy. Unless they have a reason to _really_ want to see your content then they aren't going to bother. So, is it required? No. But general consensus seems to be that you will be more likely to actually have people read your stuff if it is in .txt format.



People seem to forget as well that FA is not a great site for fic. You can leave it up there and it will stay for AGES because the amount of people writing is pisslow and even if they do read it, most of the stuffs they will get are low quality fetish stuffs so people give up reading stuffs on the front site. You have to have a name for yourself if you want people to read it.

So let's just admit that this site suck for fiction and just upload it ao an additional site like DA. Only people that are truly interested in your fictions through certain way of advertisement will bother reading it anyway.


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## Chicory (Jan 22, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> People seem to forget as well that FA is not a great site for fic. You can leave it up there and it will stay for AGES because the amount of people writing is pisslow and even if they do read it, most of the stuffs they will get are low quality fetish stuffs so people give up reading stuffs on the front site. You have to have a name for yourself if you want people to read it.
> 
> So let's just admit that this site suck for fiction and just upload it ao an additional site like DA. Only people that are truly interested in your fictions through certain way of advertisement will bother reading it anyway.



This is what I do. I wouldn't display my horror or science fiction like this in the year 2015, either.


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## BadRoy (Jan 22, 2015)

It's similar to uploading your story with a thumbnail. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to consider reading your story if you can't summon the effort to present it in a respectable light. 
Formatting the text further sweetens the deal.



			
				Zeitzbach said:
			
		

> People seem to forget as well that FA is not a great site for fic. You  can leave it up there and it will stay for AGES because the amount of  people writing is pisslow and even if they do read it, most of the  stuffs they will get are low quality fetish stuffs so people give up  reading stuffs on the front site. You have to have a name for yourself  if you want people to read it.


Are smut writers like myself considered a blight? I'm not trying to be accusatory, I'm just curious.


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## Chicory (Jan 22, 2015)

BadRoy said:


> It's similar to uploading your story with a thumbnail. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to consider reading your story if you can't summon the effort to present it in a respectable light.
> Formatting the text further sweetens the deal.



Is this in response to us? I think there's a responsibility on the shoulders of furry websites to make the upload process and display reasonably easy and pleasing, too. That is, if they want very many people to be loyal.

I already spend hours writing, revising, and editing whether it's serious science fiction or just furry fetish material. I wouldn't sell to a magazine that required much more, let alone display it free on a website.

That said, I don't blame you for not reading things that are messy. I don't, either, but I also don't upload.


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## BadRoy (Jan 22, 2015)

Chicory said:


> Is this in response to us? I think there's a responsibility on the shoulders of furry websites to make the upload process and display reasonably easy and pleasing, too. That is, if they want very many people to be loyal.
> 
> I already spend hours writing, revising, and editing whether it's serious science fiction or just furry fetish material. I wouldn't sell to a magazine that required much more, let alone display it free on a website.


So you're saying not to do the 10-15 minutes of additional work in spite of the site itself? That seems kind of silly when it could up ones readership by a not-insignificant amount.


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## Chicory (Jan 22, 2015)

BadRoy said:


> So you're saying not to do the 10-15 minutes of additional work in spite of the site itself? That seems kind of silly when it could up ones readership by a not-insignificant amount.



It's probably worth it for people who are into FA and want to gather a following here in particular. I don't see the point and I'm not really tempted by the concept of watchers. My ultimate goal isn't to have a following on furry websites, it's to be recognized for my short stories in other genres. I come here for practice, to get my fix, and to share with other people looking to get their fix.

If I want to connect to other authors or get critique, there are other furry websites and other writing websites that are easier, look better, are more active, and have stronger communities with more experienced writers. They don't pay me or put my name out there in print (and I'm not claiming to be a young Stephen King), but they also don't require me to jump through hoops simply to upload something that isn't hideously ugly.


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## SkyeLansing (Jan 22, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> People seem to forget as well that FA is not a great site for fic. You can leave it up there and it will stay for AGES because the amount of people writing is pisslow and even if they do read it, most of the stuffs they will get are low quality fetish stuffs so people give up reading stuffs on the front site. You have to have a name for yourself if you want people to read it.



This is basically what I was getting at. The thing is in order to build a name for yourself you need to have an audience. And there is only one way to do that, which is to get people to read your stuff. It is a classic catch-22. But that being the case if you WANT an audience on here (which you do if you are posting on here, otherwise why are you wasting your effort?) then you need to accept the reality of working on the site. Which means forgoing PDF and .doc format in favor of .txt.


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 22, 2015)

BadRoy said:


> Are smut writers like myself considered a blight? I'm not trying to be accusatory, I'm just curious.



It depends on how you write it. If it's good, it's good. If it's something like a bad sonic fan fiction that gives people a face reaction that makes them look like Justin Bieber then yes.



SkyeLansing said:


> This is basically what I was getting at. The thing is in order to build a name for yourself you need to have an audience. And there is only one way to do that, which is to get people to read your stuff. It is a classic catch-22. But that being the case if you WANT an audience on here (which you do if you are posting on here, otherwise why are you wasting your effort?) then you need to accept the reality of working on the site. Which means forgoing PDF and .doc format in favor of .txt.



I actually find it easier to just do some illustration and constantly mention or tag your story somewhere. If the story starts off bad, they probably won't read more than a paragraph anyway. On the other hand, if you have been illustrating scenario in your story and posting it for awhile, there will be people asking about it and give it a try just to see if they get to see the pic they like.

 That's exactly how I got people to read my stuffs on here even with pdf upload. If they can't put any effort into reading it, they probably won't bother finishing it anyway if it's longer than 300 words and with about 11 chapters so far with an average of 1.2k words each, they better damn well put in some effort.



Chicory said:


> Is this in response to us? *I think there's a responsibility on the shoulders of furry websites to make the upload process and display reasonably easy and pleasing, too*. That is, if they want very many people to be loyal.
> 
> I already spend hours writing, revising, and editing whether it's serious science fiction or just furry fetish material. I wouldn't sell to a magazine that required much more, let alone display it free on a website.
> 
> That said, I don't blame you for not reading things that are messy. I don't, either, but I also don't upload.



The site is horribly outdated especially when it comes to functionality. We have neither a subfolder or an actual file reader. If you write and draw at the same time, the whole thing is a mess. You can't separate by arc or arrange by chapters with drawing in between. You can't upload a revised version and an old one for people to read and compare without them having to search through pages and pages of gallery.

FA sure isn't my go-to choice for a fic upload. It's just "another site"


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## SkyeLansing (Jan 22, 2015)

Zeitzbach said:


> I actually find it easier to just do some illustration and constantly mention or tag your story somewhere. If the story starts off bad, they probably won't read more than a paragraph anyway. On the other hand, if you have been illustrating scenario in your story and posting it for awhile, there will be people asking about it and give it a try just to see if they get to see the pic they like.
> 
> That's exactly how I got people to read my stuffs on here even with pdf upload. If they can't put any effort into reading it, they probably won't bother finishing it anyway if it's longer than 300 words and with about 11 chapters so far with an average of 1.2k words each, they better damn well put in some effort.


 
This is actually how I tend to do thing as well in the rare instances that I post something significant on here. The thing is that I can 100% assure you that EVEN then posting as text will get you more visibility. It isn't even like doing it is very difficult. As for that last comment, about how they "damn well better put in effort," lets turn that around a bit.

Do you care enough about what you've written to take the absurdly easy steps to make it a .txt upload? If not, why should they?


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## Zeitzbach (Jan 22, 2015)

SkyeLansing said:


> This is actually how I tend to do thing as well in the rare instances that I post something significant on here. The thing is that I can 100% assure you that EVEN then posting as text will get you more visibility. It isn't even like doing it is very difficult. As for that last comment, about how they "damn well better put in effort," lets turn that around a bit.
> 
> Do you care enough about what you've written to take the absurdly easy steps to make it a .txt upload? If not, why should they?




If they're interested in my fic because of the characters and the  illustration with the arc summary, they will download the pdf file  anyway. I rather choose a dedicated reader than random person viewing hoping for some gay scenes.

And there's an even better option.

Upload the pdf anyway
then post a link to my DA folder where it's much more organized into arcs and chapters with related illustration with proper file reader so the chapter is separated into 5-8 proper pages instead of just one long text file.


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## Ursa Maximus (Jan 23, 2015)

I can respect the desire for dedicated readers who appreciate all the work you put in. And downloading a PDF isn't exactly a ton of work to ask of people. But at the end of the day, readers come in wanting what they want. And thanks to the magic of the internet, a reader who wants random gay sex scenes isn't like, checking your book out of the library and preventing other more interested readers from finding it. If your work gets popular from people skimming for the sex, you might attract more serious readers via faves or convert the perverts.

So I don't care too much if people just wanna skim my stories and pick out the sex scenes. (Not that my work tends to be much more than extremely elaborate sex scene setups.)

I checked out the story posting features at SoFurry and they look pretty awesome. I think I'll start posting my stuff there primarily, then throw up a crummy txt with a link in the description. Still torn on hard wrap though. Leaning towards no hard wrap and letting users resize the window or text or whatever to make it work for them.


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## BadRoy (Jan 24, 2015)

Ursa Maximus said:


> I can respect the desire for dedicated readers who appreciate all the work you put in. And downloading a PDF isn't exactly a ton of work to ask of people. But at the end of the day, readers come in wanting what they want. And thanks to the magic of the internet, a reader who wants random gay sex scenes isn't like, checking your book out of the library and preventing other more interested readers from finding it. If your work gets popular from people skimming for the sex, you might attract more serious readers via faves or convert the perverts.


That's a good point. There are definitely people who will come for the X, but stay for the story you've built.


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