# Sony gets sued for taking out Linux from PS3



## Kangamutt (Apr 29, 2010)

Remember when Sony did away with OtherOS on the PS3 with that firmware upgrade earlier this month? Well now they're facing a class-action lawsuit because of it.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1086720p1.html

Discuss.


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## Adrianfolf (Apr 29, 2010)

Meh I think it was a stupid feature anyway. I'm glad it was removed before people could pirate games


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## Scotty1700 (Apr 29, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> Meh I think it was a stupid feature anyway. I'm glad it was removed before people could pirate games



This.


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## Vintage (Apr 29, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> Meh I think it was a stupid feature anyway. I'm glad it was removed before people could pirate games



hardware backwards compatibility was a stupid feature anyway. i'm glad it was removed. i mean, if you want to play old games, just pull out your old playstation

seriouspost: i mean you really don't see what implications this could have for license agreements and companies being able to remove _whatever they want_ from a game console you spent your very real money on when what they removed was being advertised as a feature???

AAAAAAANALOGY: it's like taking your car to a brand-licensed mechanic and they change out the tires 'n' shit and replace the windshield but they take out the cupholders and the lumbar support in the driver's seat. sure, it's not necessary, but come on. stick to your fucking word, guys


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## Skittle (Apr 29, 2010)

Just because there was the potential to pirate games with Other OS doesn't mean there isn't potential to do it NOW.

Fuck, if you are worried about pirated items, then you shouldn't be allowed to put anything from an external onto the PS3 cause it may be pirated music or movies!!


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## Taren Fox (Apr 29, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> I'm glad it was removed before people could pirate games


Why do you care anyway?


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## Vaelarsa (Apr 29, 2010)

I hope Sony does get their shit kicked in for this.

Saying that OtherOS should not be allowed just because you have the _potential_ to pirate games, is like saying you should not be allowed to connect to the internet via computer while owning a PS, just because of the _potential_ of pirating games.
Same shit, different source, is it not?


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## Ames (Apr 29, 2010)

Vintage said:


> hardware backwards compatibility was a stupid feature anyway. i'm glad it was removed. i mean, if you want to play old games, just pull out your old playstation



Good thing I bought my ps3 before they took out all that shit.  I have all the memory stick slots, 4 usb ports, and backwards compatibility (I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 games ).


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## Vintage (Apr 29, 2010)

JamesB said:


> Good thing I bought my ps3 before they took out all that shit.  I have all the memory stick slots, 4 usb ports, and backwards compatibility (I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 games ).



yeah i bought mine as soon as i heard it was being discontinued because i knew that they'd pull some of these stupid shenanigans but now i have the added bonus of watching them get sued by someone with bigger balls and more time than me

also: still running 3.2.0 but that's mostly because i don't play games often. i'd be pissed if i actually cared about PSN or online play.


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## Skittle (Apr 29, 2010)

JamesB said:


> Good thing I bought my ps3 before they took out all that shit.  I have all the memory stick slots, 4 usb ports, and backwards compatibility (I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 games ).


I have a PS2 and honestly, it is cheaper to buy a 40GB and a ps2 than to buy a backwards one now adays.

Or hell, a brand new 120GB (not like size matters) and a ps2.


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## Bianca (Apr 30, 2010)

Amusingly it's too late for OtherOS removal to do anything, anyway. Certain individuals in the scene have got re-signing of installers working off the back of the initial exploits, so expect custom firmwares requiring no modification to the hardware (or access to OtherOS) sooner, rather than later.

Viva la piracy â™¥


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## Tycho (Apr 30, 2010)

Whatever.  Linux on the PS3 was a novelty.  The annoying part is them going back on their word like they did.


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## Lazydabear (Apr 30, 2010)

For some reason Sony heard a rumor of a Hacker claiming he finally can play a Pirated copy of a PS3 game using Linux as his tool to pirated games which out of fear made Sony restort this type of thing.


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## Taren Fox (Apr 30, 2010)

Sony needs to ad a feature that would create more giant enemy crabs.


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## Azbulldog (Apr 30, 2010)

I'm really looking forward to the outcome of this case. I don't think Sony had the right to remove the feature, after it was advertised and such. Not that it affects me, I don't own a PS3. If I did I ever happen to get one I'd like this feature intact.


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## Foxstar (Apr 30, 2010)

Linux on the PS3 was complete shit anyway, you could run it better on a 300 dollar laptop. So for people bitching about this, go buy a cheap laptop.


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## Tycho (Apr 30, 2010)

Foxstar said:


> Linux on the PS3 was complete shit anyway, you could run it better on a 300 dollar laptop. So for people bitching about this, go buy a cheap laptop.



It's more about Sony reneging on a deal than actually using Linux on the PS3.


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## Shark_the_raptor (Apr 30, 2010)

This is silly.


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## Runefox (Apr 30, 2010)

If OtherOS could have been made to use the GPU and/or more tasks could be offloaded to the SPE's, then things would be a lot different regarding OtherOS performance. Having used it, I can indeed confirm that no sane person would want to use it as a computer under those circumstances, but it can be made bearable by adding the VRAM to the swap space and so on.

All in all, though, I'm disappointed that the OtherOS feature was removed, and I'm pretty angry that the reason it was removed was because they feared piracy. While it wasn't a critical component, how far are they willing to go to that end? What if, for example, a modified PSP were able to break the hypervisor and install custom firmware? Would they disable RemotePlay? USB support entirely? What if, like the PSP, exploits for certain games are found possible via savegame hacks (not likely, but for the sake of argument)? What would Sony do then? Ban every owner of that game from PSN because clearly they're *dirty pirates*?

They're acting on the potential for evil. They may or may not have the right to do it this way (lawsuits will tell), but they're punishing everyone because an exploit that wasn't even really used to do anything was discovered by *breaking open the console and shorting a trace on the motherboard*. Had Sony's reaction not been so immediate and harsh, I don't think there would have been much else to happen, at least not so quickly as it seems to be going now with, as I understand it, multiple groups attempting to modify the firmware and release it for use on normal systems.


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## Skittle (Apr 30, 2010)

Runefox said:


> If OtherOS could have been made to use the GPU and/or more tasks could be offloaded to the SPE's, then things would be a lot different regarding OtherOS performance. Having used it, I can indeed confirm that no sane person would want to use it as a computer under those circumstances, but it can be made bearable by adding the VRAM to the swap space and so on.
> 
> All in all, though, I'm disappointed that the OtherOS feature was removed, and I'm pretty angry that the reason it was removed was because they feared piracy. While it wasn't a critical component, how far are they willing to go to that end? What if, for example, a modified PSP were able to break the hypervisor and install custom firmware? Would they disable RemotePlay? USB support entirely? What if, like the PSP, exploits for certain games are found possible via savegame hacks (not likely, but for the sake of argument)? What would Sony do then? Ban every owner of that game from PSN because clearly they're *dirty pirates*?
> 
> They're acting on the potential for evil. They may or may not have the right to do it this way (lawsuits will tell), but they're punishing everyone because an exploit that wasn't even really used to do anything was discovered by *breaking open the console and shorting a trace on the motherboard*. Had Sony's reaction not been so immediate and harsh, I don't think there would have been much else to happen, at least not so quickly as it seems to be going now with, as I understand it, multiple groups attempting to modify the firmware and release it for use on normal systems.



^This


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## Adrianfolf (Apr 30, 2010)

Taren Fox said:


> Why do you care anyway?


 Because the more you pirate a game the less money devs get to make new games thats why I care


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## Runefox (Apr 30, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> Because the more you pirate a game the less money devs get to make new games thats why I care



Question: Do you buy used games?


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## Torinir (Apr 30, 2010)

http://bit.ly/2WVXQj

Some actually put the Other OS feature to good use.


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## Kangamutt (Apr 30, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> Because the more you pirate a game the less money devs get to make new games thats why I care





Runefox said:


> Question: Do you buy used games?



Seriously. Devs don't make money off of residual values. They get the cut from the initial sales in shrinkwrap, and if it's a hit, a nice bonus. Just because there is piracy, doesn't mean everyone pirates media. And besides, to pirate it, there has to be _someone_ who has to chip in to the developer to get the initial copy. And don't go on about how the devs are losing money, either. Blizzard hired a few students last month before they even graduated, and they're getting payed $45k/yr with full benefits. Do you honestly think studios that do nothing but pump out triple A quality games are bemoaning losses?

Now that doesn't mean I'm condoning piracy. I'm working to get a spot in the industry myself, so I'd rather you buy legitimately! But if you're buying used games, the developer won't see a CENT from that sale! Anyway, my point is, is that taking out Other OS for fear of piracy is plain bullshit. Not only is there every other fucking computer made that can do it far more easily (if I remember correctly, the exploit on the PS3 is a rather tricky move and has a high risk of turning it into a $300 brick), AND it creates false advertising. Now the idea of running Linux on your PS3 does seem a bit like a novelty, but it IS advertised that you can do that, and once you unpack it, plug it in and get the necessary updates, you can't! Wouldn't you feel somehow cheated if you bought something that advertised a feature, no matter how trivial, but WAS a point of conviction to get you to buy it, and the manufacturer suddenly says you can't use it?


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## inuyasharlz (Apr 30, 2010)

Bah.
Linux FTW.
This isn't the first time Sony has screwed us.


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## Carenath (Apr 30, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> Meh I think it was a stupid feature anyway. I'm glad it was removed before people could pirate games





Scotty1700 said:


> This.


And I suppose none of you pirated a single game, movie, song or piece of software, not once, not ever?


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## Lazydabear (May 1, 2010)

This is what Sony had to say about it on there forms.


"_The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) system will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST), and will disable the â€œInstall Other OSâ€ feature that was available on the PS3 systems prior to the current slimmer models, launched in September 2009._
_This feature enabled users to install an operating system, but due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.21 system software update._
_In addition, disabling the â€œOther OSâ€ feature will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system._
_Consumers and organizations that currently use the â€œOther OSâ€ feature can choose not to upgrade their PS3 systems, although the following features will no longer be available;_
_â€¢ Ability to sign in to PlayStation Network and use network features that require signing in to PlayStation Network, such as online features of PS3 games and chat_
_â€¢ Playback of PS3 software titles or Blu-ray Disc videos that require PS3 system software version 3.21 or later_
_â€¢ Playback of copyright-protected videos that are stored on a media server (when DTCP-IP is enabled under Settings)_
_â€¢ Use of new features and improvements that are available on PS3 system software 3.21 or later_"


Thank this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz for braging he can play Pirated copys of the games.


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## CrispSkittlez (May 1, 2010)

*ahem* Baaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!


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## CFox (May 1, 2010)

Sony did the right move for it's business; Kill off the source before it can grow and potentially hurt sells. The new slims don't even have the useless feature. So even if the pirates can, ["HUR HUR DERP, I'MA FIGHT AGAINST THE CORP!"] keep the 'Other OS' alive to prove Sony wrong, it will only be a matter of time before the older PS3's die anyway. Taking away features is indeed *WRONG* and shouldn't be done, *but* this particular feature was fucking useless to begin with and could potentially be a huge security flaw. Which is why I'm not angry with Sony, they didn't remove anything that people actually really used.

People that say otherwise are only wanting pirates to eventually crack it to make pirating possible on yet another system, because they are too lazy to work and support developers for their hard work [Work that's only going to get harder and cost more as time moves forward], *or* they wanted it to be cracked so they could fully use Linux for fun, and use it for actual legit/legal reasons. Reasons such as using Linux as a media center.

Which begs the question as to why you would want to run Linux on a damn PS3. You could easily build a cheap media center PC and run Linux, or any OS you desired. This is nothing to cry over and rage about. Do you really think Sony/Microsoft are going to look at this and say, "Oh, look, we/they got away with this! Lets see what else we can remove and really piss people off!" No, that's _*HIGHLY*_ unlikely, and something you don't have to worry about. This was for security reasons, and security reasons only. They are protecting their bottom line.

Blah, blah, blah, fight against me and show me the 'horrible' future if Sony 'wins' this case...


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## Foxstar (May 1, 2010)

Carenath said:


> And I suppose none of you pirated a single game, movie, song or piece of software, not once, not ever?



To my best memory I don't. I've paid double or triple for legit, but I still pay it.


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## Taren Fox (May 1, 2010)

Foxstar said:


> To my best memory I don't. I've paid double or triple for legit, but I still pay it.


You're going to heaven then. :3


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## Carenath (May 1, 2010)

Lazydabear said:


> Thank this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz for braging he can play Pirated copys of the games.


And I wouldn't mind but the hack was not something that could have been exploited this way without an impressive level of skill that the vast majority of PS3 gamers quite likely lack.

To execute the hack.. requires exceptional timing and a very steady hand.. to 'glitch' the processor at the correct time for this to work.

@CJ-Yiffers: Are you also going to swear on oath that you've never pirated *anything* in your life, (games, music, movies, software etc), or ever used/watched/listened to something that was.. or was created using pirated material? Never listened to a pirated song.. never used a 'free' copy of Office, Windows or Photoshop.
As I've said elsewhere before "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
If you want to support the developers.. then send them a cheque.. but if I can avoid it, I won't support companies like Ubisoft, EA and Activision-Blizzard that shit all over their customers.. and even their own developers when it comes to keeping their corporate profits nice and fat. What have those bastards done to earn the money they make? And even saying this.. games development is one of the subjects I'm studying.


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## Luca (May 1, 2010)

Did anyone actually use Linix on their PS3?


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## Bianca (May 1, 2010)

Lazydabear said:


> Thank this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz for braging he can play Pirated copys of the games.


Oh, you're a retard? I see.
Geohot *never* said he could play pirated/backed up games. He did his exploit to show he could and then intended to do nothing more; he had no further interest and no intent to do a Custom Firmware. Then Sony removed OtherOS, and because of them removing this feature, THEN he announced his CFW which would re-integrate OOS support into the mainline firmware. Still no mention of pirated games or unsigned code. Are you such a sheep that you can't even read for five minutes and come up with your own conclusions?

tl;dr, Geohot making CFW was retaliation for removal of OOS, not vice versa.


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## Lazydabear (May 1, 2010)

Carenath said:


> And I wouldn't mind but the hack was not something that could have been exploited this way without an impressive level of skill that the vast majority of PS3 gamers quite likely lack.
> 
> To execute the hack.. requires exceptional timing and a very steady hand.. to 'glitch' the processor at the correct time for this to work.
> 
> ...


 
Like everyone else I might as well be honest my next attempt to steal by buying a used PSP and download games off of some website gives out a free copys of old games like Final Fantasy 8 (which was just a Emulator).I have nothing personal against EA,Ubisoft,Capcom,and Square Enix.

They do have their issues I don't really care if Sony wants to be a bitch of all Game consol just because of one mistake after another it was never a perfect system they try to be this image of a perfect system sometimes they make mistakes just ask Sega.


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## Adrianfolf (May 1, 2010)

Runefox said:


> Question: Do you buy used games?


Yes but that is different


Carenath said:


> And I suppose none of you pirated a single game, movie, song or piece of software, not once, not ever?


I'm not innocent of that. I will admit I do music on a regular basis but movies I never have and I have pirated a few games mind you that they are all old and no longer in production and the Adobe creative suite CS3 but thats ungodly expenisve and actually need it for school and finally Sam Broadcaster for DJing


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## CFox (May 1, 2010)

Carenath said:


> And I wouldn't mind but the hack was not something that could have been exploited this way without an impressive level of skill that the vast majority of PS3 gamers quite likely lack.
> 
> To execute the hack.. requires exceptional timing and a very steady hand.. to 'glitch' the processor at the correct time for this to work.
> 
> ...



I did back when I was a kid/young teen, before I knew any better. I've also downloaded PC software that costs waaaayyy too damn much [600$ - 1000$]. I'm making up for those times though by paying. And no, I _rarely_ buy used games. The only time I really buy a used game is if I've bought the game before for new, or if I don't want to support a certain publisher. I'm surprised you support such a thing when, apparently, you are going into this field. It's a hard field to get into and stay. You may not like the Publisher/head company, but the developers depend on that money to pay for their checks.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2010)

I love the amount of people in the world who base their view of corporations practically getting away with murder with how "stupid" the person/thing they're fucking over is. I don't have Linux on my PS3, had no intention of putting it on, or any real theoretical advantage to the ability. And that's not the fucking point. The point is you buy a half-thousand dollar or more machine nowadays, and the company you bought it from thinks they still own it and _you_ along with it. Why the fuck are people so quick to come out on Sony's side in this matter? There's not much point in being a "company man" when you don't work for said company, so what, you just side with whoever you think is less of a dick? What fuckin grade are people in?


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## CFox (May 2, 2010)

I'm not trying to come across as "Sony can do no wroooonnggg!!" "Sony is the best company evaaahhh!" [SONY DEFENSE FORCE - GO!!!!]

No, I'm only basing my opinion on this, for I have no real preference of a company. They all have their pros/cons.


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## Carenath (May 2, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> I'm not innocent of that. I will admit *I do music on a regular basis* but movies I never have *and I have pirated* a few games mind you that they are all old and no longer in production and the *Adobe creative suite CS3 but thats ungodly expenisve* and actually need it for school and finally Sam Broadcaster for DJing






CJ-Yiffers said:


> I did back when I was a kid/young teen, before I knew any better. *I've also downloaded PC software that costs waaaayyy too damn much [600$ - 1000$]*. I'm making up for those times though by paying. And no, I _rarely_ buy used games. The only time I really buy a used game is if I've bought the game before for new, or if I don't want to support a certain publisher. I'm surprised you support such a thing when, apparently, you are going into this field. It's a hard field to get into and stay. You may not like the Publisher/head company, but the developers depend on that money to pay for their checks.


Thank you both for pointing out that you're hypocrites, completely invalidating your points.

I never said here that I supported piracy, I just choose to point out that a lot of the people that jump in to support game developers, tend to be hypocrites that pirated other content in the past if it suited them to do so.
The great example being "really expensive" software, like, Adobe CS3.

I said I wouldn't support a company like EA (fucked over their customers with the DRM on Spore), Activision-Blizzard (fucked over the developers of the Call of Duty series to avoid paying the developers their dues), Ubisoft (continues to fuck over their paying customers with retarded DRM).

Since I have no interest in pirating the games, I refuse to buy them if the game is encumbered with DRM that makes it an inconvenience to play, and buy the version that are not so encumbered if it's an option, or I do without if not. It's my hope that voting with my wallet, will show the game publishers that if they shit on me with DRM, they won't get my money.

Also.. in spite of studying games development.. it's not an area I want to get into.. I just wanted to learn C++ in a more practical way.


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## Adrianfolf (May 2, 2010)

Carenath said:


> Thank you both for pointing out that you're hypocrites, completely invalidating your points.
> 
> I never said here that I supported piracy, I just choose to point out that a lot of the people that jump in to support game developers, tend to be hypocrites that pirated other content in the past if it suited them to do so.
> The great example being "really expensive" software, like, Adobe CS3.
> ...


 I never tried to make a point. Note I said NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. AS IN CAN NOT BUY AT A STORE and I don't like ebay cause there are somethings that can't be covered. However when it comes to recent games I have bought them all or they were given to me as gifts thanks to steam


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## Carenath (May 2, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> I never tried to make a point. Note I said NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION. AS IN CAN NOT BUY AT A STORE and I don't like ebay cause there are somethings that can't be covered. However when it comes to recent games I have bought them all or they were given to me as gifts thanks to steam


I was referring to you pirating a copy of Adobe CS3, because you think it's too expensive, but then turning around and condemming people pirating games on the PS3. You can't have it both ways. Read the bits I put in bold.


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## Runefox (May 2, 2010)

Since the replies I'd have made otherwise have already been made, I'll hit this (it was addressed earlier, too, but I guess it was passed over):



Adrianfolf said:


> Yes but that is different


How is it different? The only difference is that money leaves your pocket and goes into the register at a game store, where they pocket about 300% of what they paid for it in what's basically a racket. The game developers never see any money from used game sales, and you aren't supporting them one bit by buying used. In effect, they would have been just as well off if you had went and pirated your games. The only time it wouldn't matter either way is if something is out of print, and again, there would be no impact to the developer in either case.

That's not to say that piracy is good, it's saying that used games are just as *bad* for the developer as piracy is - You may as well be buying a bootleg, but hey, at least it was paid for _once_. Buy all your games new if you really want to support the developers - Otherwise, don't bother to bring out the moral card.


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## Foxstar (May 2, 2010)

Wolf-Bone said:


> RAGGEE



'k


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## Adrianfolf (May 2, 2010)

Carenath said:


> I was referring to you pirating a copy of Adobe CS3, because you think it's too expensive, but then turning around and condemming people pirating games on the PS3. You can't have it both ways. Read the bits I put in bold.


 If $1000 isn't expensive for you then you must be rich. I tried to see if I could get it covered under my Financial Aid at college but since they held a balance against me they couldn't help


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2010)

CJ-Yiffers said:


> I'm not trying to come across as "Sony can do no wroooonnggg!!" "Sony is the best company evaaahhh!" [SONY DEFENSE FORCE - GO!!!!]
> 
> No, I'm only basing my opinion on this, for I have no real preference of a company. They all have their pros/cons.



And? The point still stands with this latest PS3 issue, as it does with the Kindle and damn near anything made by Apple this decade. The issue is this bullshit with "implied consent" to pay a company money to have them own you via their product more than you own the product you paid them for. It's really all the same issue, though it's a lot of different companies doing it. When I say "company man" I mean the kind of people who if a company does something, it doesn't matter how questionable or downright wrong it might be, they instinctively have to have a rationalization for it, and for what? Are you afraid they'll track you from your internet posting and send goons after you or something? Do you jerk off to thoughts of being a spokesperson for them? Seriously, what do you get out of the mental gymnastics required to justify what at the very least is some really heinous false advertising, but in a way could also be seen as companies pirating people to prevent them from pirating? It really is an honest question.




Foxstar said:


> 'k



You're only one of the people that was aimed at, and had I even mentioned you it really only would've been in passing. As I've advised others, you're irreversibly on the corporate cock, so it's not worth the effort to really try to argue with you. Really, those of us that feel like we sorta know where you're coming from see your type as more to be pitied than anything, clinging for dear hope to the one kind of faggotry that every day is a pride parade for in your country.


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## CFox (May 2, 2010)

Carenath said:


> Thank you both for pointing out that you're hypocrites, completely invalidating your points.



How am I a hypocrite when I said I paid for all the stuff I pirated when I was younger - in the past, and no longer pirate anything? Read better next time.

And no, I didn't 'pirate' much back then.


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## Tycho (May 2, 2010)

That software that costs 600-1000 clams is stuff aimed at businesses that can afford to slap down that much cash.  From everything I hear there's a damn good reason the stuff is pricey.


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## AshleyAshes (May 2, 2010)

Tycho said:


> That software that costs 600-1000 clams is stuff aimed at businesses that can afford to slap down that much cash. From everything I hear there's a damn good reason the stuff is pricey.


 
It's also because you use their software to produce works, images, flash, movies, that can generate thousands and even millions of dollars for yourself depending on how it's used.  By legally buying that software they also free you of any royalty demands that they could make by using their software in your production.

This is why if you're doing 'real work' with major programs like that it could be seriously stupid to pirate it because the companies could sue you and demand real royalties from you.


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## Foxstar (May 2, 2010)

Wolf-Bone said:


> Really, those of us that feel like we sorta know where you're coming from see your type as more to be pitied than anything, clinging for dear hope to the one kind of faggotry that every day is a pride parade for in your country.



U mad.

Because it warrants nothing else.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2010)

Foxstar said:


> U mad.
> 
> Because it warrants nothing else.



No, I said I pity you. I don't get where the confusion lies for you.


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## GraemeLion (May 2, 2010)

JamesB said:


> Good thing I bought my ps3 before they took out all that shit.  I have all the memory stick slots, 4 usb ports, and backwards compatibility (I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 games ).



So what would you think if Sony, through software, simply removed the backwards compatibility from your system?


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## Carenath (May 2, 2010)

Adrianfolf said:


> If $1000 isn't expensive for you then you must be rich. I tried to see if I could get it covered under my Financial Aid at college but since they held a balance against me they couldn't help


$1000 for software is outrageously expensive. But, you're basically saying:
*Don't steal games, you have to support the developers because they need that money but stealing Adobe CS3 is okay because $1000 is too much for software and most of us can't afford it.*
You know something else, you could have bought a student-licensed copy, which is a hell of a lot more affordable. Adobe CS4 Master collection (for students) is about $500 compared to $4000 for the retail version.



CJ-Yiffers said:


> How am I a hypocrite when I said I paid for all the stuff I pirated when I was younger - in the past, and no longer pirate anything? Read better next time.
> 
> And no, I didn't 'pirate' much back then.


"I've also downloaded PC software that costs waaaayyy too damn much  [600$ - 1000$]" did you pay for this too? If it costs waaay to damn much that you have to steal it, then don't go around preaching how stealing games is wrong, because it's the same damn shit. Amnesia much? Or did you just hope I didn't notice that.


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## CFox (May 2, 2010)

Carenath said:


> $1000 for software is outrageously expensive. But, you're basically saying:
> *Don't steal games, you have to support the developers because they need that money but stealing Adobe CS3 is okay because $1000 is too much for software and most of us can't afford it.*
> You know something else, you could have bought a student-licensed copy, which is a hell of a lot more affordable. Adobe CS4 Master collection (for students) is about $500 compared to $4000 for the retail version.
> 
> ...



It was only Adobe Photoshop, and yes, I did. I didn't want to, but I did. ^_^


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## Adrianfolf (May 2, 2010)

Carenath said:


> $1000 for software is outrageously expensive. But, you're basically saying:
> *Don't steal games, you have to support the developers because they need that money but stealing Adobe CS3 is okay because $1000 is too much for software and most of us can't afford it.*
> You know something else, you could have bought a student-licensed copy, which is a hell of a lot more affordable. Adobe CS4 Master collection (for students) is about $500 compared to $4000 for the retail version.
> 
> ...


 I don't even have $500 for even that. I will agree its the same thing and its wrong. I'll just shut up now


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## Kesteh (May 2, 2010)

I'm pretty sure most of you didn't take advantage of the OS feature on the PS3. 
So... what the fuck are you bitching about or jumping on to sony about? You're complaining about something you've never used.


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## Runefox (May 2, 2010)

Kesteh said:


> I'm pretty sure most of you didn't take advantage of the OS feature on the PS3.
> So... what the fuck are you bitching about or jumping on to sony about? You're complaining about something you've never used.



It's not the point. They removed a feature from a product that people *already own*. Where will it stop? How far is Sony willing to go in *retroactively* disabling features that were advertised and in some cases potentially drove sales in order to curtail piracy? If a game is found to have an exploit that "could" lead to piracy, would they turn around and ban the game and everyone who has it?

For that matter, I was using it, though mainly as a curiosity. That it no longer exists meant not only that I *had* to format my hard drive (and without any external storage, that meant all my savegames were deleted), but that I could no longer pursue that curiosity and that the system has now lost a feature, retroactively, over concerns that it *might* be possible to use it a certain way, especially when no claims that it would be used for piracy or that it *could* be used for piracy were ever made and the "hack" would have ended there with very little interest. Rest assured that other exploits can and will be found in the future - And I ask again, what will Sony do then?

You can argue - unsuccessfully - that if I wanted to keep using it, I could just not upgrade the firmware. Problem is, that forces me to make a choice between Other OS or actually using the console for anything else (going forward, games will not be compatible with OtherOS-compatible firmware, nor will the PSN, and nor will future Blu-Ray releases), which is just as bad if not worse. It's what's known as a Hobson's Choice.


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## Wolf-Bone (May 2, 2010)

Kesteh said:


> I'm pretty sure most of you didn't take advantage of the OS feature on the PS3.
> So... what the fuck are you bitching about or jumping on to sony about? You're complaining about something you've never used.



This is basically like saying if you didn't own a Kindle and have a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four on it when they deleted it, it shouldn't bother you. Are principles entirely fucking lost on you people?


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## Kangamutt (May 2, 2010)

Kesteh said:


> I'm pretty sure most of you didn't take advantage of the OS feature on the PS3.
> So... what the fuck are you bitching about or jumping on to sony about? You're complaining about something you've never used.



That's not the point. The point is, is that you spent your money on something, and now the manufacturer is going around telling you you can't use it in the way it was advertised. You might as well have paid $300 simply for the right to use it under their own terms, rather than actually, say, owning the console.
It's a lot like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWo-vDVajns&feature=related

The bike is advertised as going around for a good distance. BUT, the company only allows you to ride it in the 3x4 ft square. That's what is happening here.


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