# I dont seem to get along with other artist...



## Foxtrot Apocalyptia (Oct 16, 2013)

Not sure if this is a common thing for artist to not get along with other artist too well? I'm not sure if I care much about my lack of interaction with the creative sorts. Though would be nice to natter about art once in a while, but at the same time I'm always so sceptical of my art, I feel out of place among anyone with any amount of talent. Or I end up feeling like one of those creepy stalkers asking stupid questions *shudders*

Show me some love mother fuckers!

Yours truly
Foxtrot ^.^


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## Willow (Oct 16, 2013)

Foxtrot Apocalyptia said:


> Show me some love mother fuckers!


That'll certainly get people to want to be friends with you. 

Why not try and get to know people first?


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## Ansitru (Oct 16, 2013)

Are you asking for advice or critiques on your art?
Are you making an intro-thread, in which case it should be in a different forum entirely?

Some more context would be great.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 16, 2013)

Depends on your attitude. Just because people draw doesn't equate to instantly getting along.


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## Gnarl (Oct 16, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Depends on your attitude. Just because people draw doesn't equate to instantly getting along.


I agree very much with that statement!


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## Namba (Oct 16, 2013)

Being an artist does you no good in the friend department if you have crappy social skills.


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## Foxtrot Apocalyptia (Oct 17, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Are you asking for advice or critiques on your art?
> Are you making an intro-thread, in which case it should be in a different forum entirely?
> 
> Some more context would be great.



I'm just looking for other people opinions.



Arshes Nei said:


> Depends on your attitude. Just because people draw doesn't equate to instantly getting along.



I'm asking if its more the opposite.



Namba said:


> Being an artist does you no good in the friend department if you have crappy social skills.



As far as I know, my social skills are fine. I've never struggled to make friends. However when it comes to another artist I just dont seem to get along. Its not like any other hobbies I have, like biking, where you can turn up alongside another motorcyclist and say "Hey, cool bike" And a conversation starts. With arty stuff, I say "Hey, cool art." Ether I seem to get blanked or I get one of those, hard to start a conversation with "Thanks."

Just always wondered if maybe artist dont get along with other artist or is it just me? They're the one kind of friend I dont really seem to make. Maybe its something to do with style of art? Like, people with similar styles get along, but others dont. Or maybe its just all in my head and I panic at the thought they'll think I have ulterior motives?


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## Dire Newt (Oct 17, 2013)

Assuming you are talking about artists on FA, do you realize how many people send artists short comments like "Cool art"? They don't want to start huge conversations with everyone that faves their submissions.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

My statement still stands. 

Just because someone draws doesn't mean everyone gets along. No more than riding a bike etc...

"Cool art" is like saying "nice weather" with a lot of comments like that it's just as saying "hello" people don't have much to say. Why is it cool? But expecting people to be more personal on a submission just because you replied - it's not gonna always be that way. Talk about other activities besides artwork with an artist.

I wouldn't know about if it being an art style problem because apparently when you put in your FA information on the forums, you didn't bother to read and put in a full URL (which has a character limit) and not your *username* only.


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## Aleu (Oct 17, 2013)

Foxtrot Apocalyptia said:


> As far as I know, my social skills are fine. I've never struggled to make friends. However when it comes to another artist I just dont seem to get along. Its not like any other hobbies I have, like biking, where you can turn up alongside another motorcyclist and say "Hey, cool bike" And a conversation starts. With arty stuff, I say "Hey, cool art." Ether I seem to get blanked or I get one of those, hard to start a conversation with "Thanks."
> 
> Just always wondered if maybe artist dont get along with other artist or is it just me? They're the one kind of friend I dont really seem to make. Maybe its something to do with style of art? Like, people with similar styles get along, but others dont. Or maybe its just all in my head and I panic at the thought they'll think I have ulterior motives?


Obviously they are not fine. I mean, what do you expect to happen when you say "Cool art"? A life story?

When I try to make conversations with artists, I give them more than just "cool art". Sure I'll comment that I like it but I'll also read this little cool thing called "Description box" where they talk about it. If they mention something that catches my interest, I'll comment on that. "Oh, hey, this is a character for a story? What kind is it?" and it'll go from there.

Basically, if you give minimum effort, you'll get the same.



Arshes Nei said:


> I wouldn't know about if it being an art style problem because  apparently when you put in your FA information on the forums, you didn't  bother to read and put in a full URL (which has a character limit) and  not your *username* only.


http://www.furaffinity.net/user/foxtrotapocalyptia


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## RTDragon (Oct 17, 2013)

Well OP why not make a sketchbook here for critique that helps a lot for you. And to be honest from reading your recent journal you actually will need helpful advice since i see your going for style over substance.


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## Ansitru (Oct 17, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Obviously they are not fine. I mean, what do you expect to happen when you say "Cool art"? A life story?



This! Exactly!

When saying something along the lines of "_Cool art!_" you're just making a statement that's pretty damn difficult to respond to.

On the other hand, look at this for example: "_Cool art! I love how you did (part of drawing). May I ask what inspired the piece?_". 
You've told the artist that the piece is cool, what you like and you've asked them a question which they can respond to, which means you're more likely to get a reply. 
Plus, while I can't speak for all artists, I personally love when I can explain what inspired a piece, or give more info about something I drew when people ask me about it.


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## Fibriel Solaer (Oct 17, 2013)

Studies have found that mental disorders and artistic proficiency are correlated. I myself have depression and I can get very, very hostile over trivial matters.

I find that the "bigger" the artist, the more arrogant they become. An arrogant artist is a bad artist, but when you have a huge pool of watchers, most of them are going to think your art is good no matter how bad it gets.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

Fibriel Solaer said:


> Studies have found that mental disorders and artistic proficiency are correlated. I myself have depression and I can get very, very hostile over trivial matters.
> 
> I find that the "bigger" the artist, the more arrogant they become. An arrogant artist is a bad artist, but when you have a huge pool of watchers, most of them are going to think your art is good no matter how bad it gets.



So are writers, scientists, intelligent people etc... There's a study for about everything that correlates it to a mental disorder of some sort.


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## Ansitru (Oct 17, 2013)

Fibriel Solaer said:


> Studies have found that mental disorders and artistic proficiency are correlated. I myself have depression and I can get very, very hostile over trivial matters.
> 
> *I find that the "bigger" the artist, the more arrogant they become.* An arrogant artist is a bad artist, but when you have a huge pool of watchers, most of them are going to think your art is good no matter how bad it gets.



It could just be me, but ... are you seriously saying that if artists do not respond to every single person who leaves them a comment, they're to be considered "arrogant"?
Because it's not like people have a life outside of FA, right? Plus, you do not owe every person commenting with "_AWESOME!_" and "_COOL A__RT__!_" a reply, especially not since those statements are pretty hard to reply to, without keeping it at a one-word reply, being "_Thanks!_" (which in term is seen as being "cold" by people, so you just can't win if you're an artist).


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

I guess it's confirmation bias. ...


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## Foxtrot Apocalyptia (Oct 17, 2013)

Aleu said:


> Obviously they are not fine. I mean, what do you expect to happen when you say "Cool art"? A life story?
> 
> When I try to make conversations with artists, I give them more than just "cool art". Sure I'll comment that I like it but I'll also read this little cool thing called "Description box" where they talk about it. If they mention something that catches my interest, I'll comment on that. "Oh, hey, this is a character for a story? What kind is it?" and it'll go from there.
> 
> ...



Okay, I might have been a little bit vague with the whole 'Cool art' thing. Its usually more relating to what I'm looking at rather than just a generic compliment. I should prolly learn to be a little more specific on these forums. And thanks for linking dude. I have fixed that now.



Ansitru said:


> This! Exactly!
> 
> When saying something along the lines of "_Cool art!_" you're just making a statement that's pretty damn difficult to respond to.
> 
> ...



This is a really good point. I guess looking at it from the other side, it'd be much more easy to get into a conversation over a question than just a straight forwards compliment. I do get the impression from some artist when I've talked to them that they'd love to talk more about stuff, if it wasn't for trying to make a reply that wasn't awkward.

Thanks.


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## Ansitru (Oct 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> I guess it's confirmation bias. ...



Even if that's what it is, I'm getting just a teensy bit sick and tired of calling very popular artists stuck-up, arrogant and cold just because they do not reply to every single one of their fans.
The thing is (and I do believe this has been discussed in another thread already), even if you have as "little" as 100 people who actively comment on your art / journals ad send you notes, it can be really difficult to reply to all of them without draining yourself mentally.

Now imagine doing that when you have about 1000+ people asking for attention and conversation and whatnot.
Point out one person who can honestly say they would be able to keep up with that many people and not feel drained, and I can point out a liar.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 17, 2013)

Most popular artists who _do_ respond to their watchers tend to skim over the giant pile of comments on a piece and pick out the more interesting ones. Or if there's a frequently asked question, they answer one post that asks, usually.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> Even if that's what it is, I'm getting just a teensy bit sick and tired of calling very popular artists stuck-up, arrogant and cold just because they do not reply to every single one of their fans.
> The thing is (and I do believe this has been discussed in another thread already), even if you have as "little" as 100 people who actively comment on your art / journals ad send you notes, it can be really difficult to reply to all of them without draining yourself mentally.
> 
> Now imagine doing that when you have about 1000+ people asking for attention and conversation and whatnot.
> Point out one person who can honestly say they would be able to keep up with that many people and not feel drained, and I can point out a liar.



Yes I know, I'm the one who pointed it out when the "Fandom is falling on its face" thread. 

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa...-On-Its-Face?p=3683982&viewfull=1#post3683982


Then there's the people who feel their comment is worth commenting on. I had seen people complain that the artist doesn't explain their specific process, or brush or even program. Sometimes it's "user error" the fucking information is in the description or tagged, or listed somewhere else and people don't want to become a broken record. Sometimes it's because the artist feels the user is chasing for something magical that will get them better.

I mean just because people share art, doesn't mean it's their responsibility to teach everyone. And if you tell them something like PRACTICE they have a shit fit. There's places that offer help, don't burden it on the artist who decided not to say anything.


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## Fibriel Solaer (Oct 17, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> It could just be me, but ... are you seriously saying that if artists do not respond to every single person who leaves them a comment, they're to be considered "arrogant"?


It is not what I _intended_ to say. I think you're jumping to some very specific conclusions from that ambiguous statement of mine.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

Fibriel Solaer said:


> It is not what I _intended_ to say. I think you're jumping to some very specific conclusions from that ambiguous statement of mine.



Please clarify what you intended to say then.


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## Fibriel Solaer (Oct 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> Please clarify what you intended to say then.


I have some experience both with newer artists and with experienced or famous ones. Very consistently the newer artists have been very kind and agreeable, and thankful for suggestions and critique, while the experienced have been total douchebags - responding VERY poorly to criticism and any commentary that is /not/ "wow great" or "sexy" or "awesome" and usually having a backup dancer to help when they start a feud with me and accuse me of trolling.


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## Ansitru (Oct 17, 2013)

Fibriel Solaer said:


> I have some experience both with newer artists and with experienced or famous ones. Very consistently the newer artists have been very kind and agreeable, and thankful for suggestions and critique, while the experienced have been total douchebags - responding VERY poorly to criticism and any commentary that is /not/ "wow great" or "sexy" or "awesome" and usually having a backup dancer to help when they start a feud with me and accuse me of trolling.



You should try critiquing beginners on deviantART. You'll adjust that point of view quickly enough.


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## Fibriel Solaer (Oct 17, 2013)

Ansitru said:


> You should try critiquing beginners on deviantART. You'll adjust that point of view quickly enough.


There is a good reason I abandoned DeviantArt a long time ago.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 17, 2013)

Most non-artists who view art on FA/DA are incredibly shitty at giving critique anyway.


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## Foxtrot Apocalyptia (Oct 17, 2013)

This has wondered a bit off topic.. but anyway, the whole critique thing you're on about, wheres a good place to get it, seen as FA and DA are both sounding pretty naff?


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## PastryOfApathy (Oct 17, 2013)

Foxtrot Apocalyptia said:


> This has wondered a bit off topic.. but anyway, the whole critique thing you're on about, wheres a good place to get it, seen as FA and DA are both sounding pretty naff?



Some of the people (emphasis on 'some') on FAF are pretty good at giving critique. Also if your very serious about getting better I've heard nothing but good things about ConceptArt since it's filled with actual career artists and such.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

Foxtrot Apocalyptia said:


> This has wondered a bit off topic.. but anyway, the whole critique thing you're on about, wheres a good place to get it, seen as FA and DA are both sounding pretty naff?



Here probably since I give them frequently. There's Crimson Daggers, but they're really not furry. Concept art too. There's some Facebook Groups like Art Buddies - but also not furry centric. There were other sites that were in closed/invite only but I don't hear people talk much about them anymore. 

For most sites because it's "entertainment" and "mah style" it's harder to find places that are focused on critiques


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 17, 2013)

I've been seriously considering going to ConceptArt.org but the amount of well-accomplished artists there is incredibly intimidating.


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## Foxtrot Apocalyptia (Oct 17, 2013)

Gibby said:


> I've been seriously considering going to ConceptArt.org but the amount of well-accomplished artists there is incredibly intimidating.



We can go in together and hold hands.


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## PastryOfApathy (Oct 17, 2013)

Gibby said:


> I've been seriously considering going to ConceptArt.org but the amount of well-accomplished artists there is incredibly intimidating.



I'm in a similar boat. I know it's probably completely unwarranted but still. Art is hard.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

The reason I stopped going to CA was the fact there was drama over artists not being paid their royalties. The videos sold by them were supposed to fund the site. So it was disheartening to see the very place that was supposed to help artists rip them off was not cool. Not to mention the amount of times asking for help when malware kept infecting the site.

Without Elwell and others it is more of a Ghost town. Good thing I keep in touch with members on Facebook


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 17, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> The reason I stopped going to CA was the fact there was drama over artists not being paid their royalties. The videos sold by them were supposed to fund the site. So it was disheartening to see the very place that was supposed to help artists rip them off was not cool. Not to mention the amount of times asking for help when malware kept infecting the site.
> 
> Without Elwell and others it is more of a Ghost town. Good thing I keep in touch with members on Facebook



So in other words, it _was_ a good place.

The Sycra forum doesn't look bad, though. Even though I still have the same feels towards it as CA.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 17, 2013)

Gibby said:


> So in other words, it _was_ a good place.
> 
> The Sycra forum doesn't look bad, though. Even though I still have the same feels towards it as CA.



http://crimsondaggers.com/forum/ (From what I understand willing to help each other out)

http://cghub.com/forum/ (Kinda dead)


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## Smuttymutt (Oct 18, 2013)

Foxtrot Apocalyptia said:


> Not sure if this is a common thing for artist to not get along with other artist too well? I'm not sure if I care much about my lack of interaction with the creative sorts. Though would be nice to natter about art once in a while, but at the same time I'm always so sceptical of my art, I feel out of place among anyone with any amount of talent. Or I end up feeling like one of those creepy stalkers asking stupid questions *shudders*
> 
> Show me some love mother fuckers!
> 
> ...



Maybe you could talk yourself up before you meet with them. If you expect badly you might accidently lead yourself down that path unintentionally. Also sometimes its all in the mind, are you sure people think you are a creepy stalker? because thats a bit silly. Every artist starts out in the sticks before they grow! No one was a glen keane the first time they picked up a pencil, not even glen keane ^^. 
Also if you want Ill be your art buddy! I'm about 1% talent 99% skill type of person and Im all about grinding that skill exp! I am a curator of inspiration and tutorials. I have traveled across many an art forum, gallery, blog, and sometimes even pinterest to expand my collection! If you ever want some good ones hit me up! (I mainly have an obsession for animations and animation production art so most of my collection leans that way, or the basics XD)

Keep going and you can find your place, you can find your skill, you can gather your own circle of artsy friends. Dont curse yourself before you even start. 

Cheers!


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## Judge Spear (Oct 19, 2013)

I've actually been keeping to myself recently. I don't fit in with the majority of art sites. At least I think so.


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## Tannonclaw (Oct 19, 2013)

I've never really gotten close with many other artists, but I have formed some friendships with my watchers. However, most of those end up seeing if they can get some art out of me a lot. I think it'd be a lot of fun to work with some other artists and make a list of things we have difficulty with, pick one a week, brainstorm and talk about what we'd draw. Lend inspiration to eachther. Really, I think the friendships between artists pop up when you start a collaboration because the conversation is necessary. Being friends with people who like my work, I sadly always kind of wonder if they're hoping I'll draw them free stuff.. and I do, but you always kind of feel like you need to keep some breathing room between you or you could end up getting used and upset later.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 19, 2013)

Tannonclaw said:


> I've never really gotten close with many other artists, but I have formed some friendships with my watchers. However, most of those end up seeing if they can get some art out of me a lot.



This is one reason I assume a lot of artists shunt me off or blatantly ignore me. I've even been blocked by a few for approaching them though I've been as neutral as possible. I usually approach with some sort of content. Asking how they achieve certain things in their program, some small critique on an image. I've grown out of saying just hi unless I just want to check if someone's available on an IM program. That sort of stuff, but I guess people just assume I'm there to mooch off of them. I don't think I ever could. I find getting free art or commissioning to be self defeating for me unless it's a specific occasion like QT Melon's movie color theory test. And I'm terrified of becoming popular.


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## Ariaxu (Oct 19, 2013)

what do you mean you dont get along?
how are artists different as a people than.. well other people?
unless you approach them with 'hi can we be friends so i can get free art' attitude i dont see a problem 
dont have any art friends myself, but thats because i know none irl, and all my internet friends are just people from world of warcraft that just dont draw =p
find it hard to form friendships via notes


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 19, 2013)

You know, I actually feel like I've gotten along quite well with artists I interact with.

But it usually starts with me giving them money, but it gets fun after that.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 19, 2013)

I guess I haven't had the problem because I don't have any more expectations of being friends with an artist than any other person online. If I get along because we have similar interests, great. If not, life goes on.


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## Tannonclaw (Oct 23, 2013)

XoPachi said:


> This is one reason I assume a lot of artists shunt me off or blatantly ignore me. I've even been blocked by a few for approaching them though I've been as neutral as possible. I usually approach with some sort of content. Asking how they achieve certain things in their program, some small critique on an image. I've grown out of saying just hi unless I just want to check if someone's available on an IM program. That sort of stuff, but I guess people just assume I'm there to mooch off of them. I don't think I ever could. I find getting free art or commissioning to be self defeating for me unless it's a specific occasion like QT Melon's movie color theory test. And I'm terrified of becoming popular.




I actually have a friend who commissioned a popular artist that I knew awhile back in real life. This friend of mine hasn't received his art he paid for in over two years but when I asked him to be stern with the artist, he said he didn't want to upset him. I realized a lot of people kind of pay-in to the opportunity to talk to some more popular artists which is weird to me, but I know it happens. They pay for some art, don't demand a deadline and really just use it as a means to try and talk with that artist and get them to be friends. That kind of stuff weirds me out a little. 

I am actually in a position right now where I became friends with one of my watchers and we talked a little daily- I was planning on making them some characters and I'd drawn them some free stuff, but I noticed later that there was an A_B article about them and how they mooch off artists to get cheaper/free art and basically have manipulated some people/ used their characters without permission. So now I am really conflicted and don't really know what to do about it. I guess create distance. I always have to question if these people want to get to know me or just want to get in the circle of people I like to draw. :/


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## Aleu (Oct 23, 2013)

Gibby said:


> But it usually starts with me giving them money, but it gets fun after that.


omai~
You naughty gibby


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## Rinz (Nov 3, 2013)

I generally find that all of the artist friends I've made have tended to be made in a captive sort of situation. Nearly all of the furry artists I know, I've met through the Artist Alleys at conventions, talking about anything other than art while we worked.


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## Taralack (Nov 4, 2013)

I have this problem too. I used to have a couple of great art buddies, but since migrating to a different country I've kind of just fallen out of contact with them. I have a few online friends I met through a Tumblr RP, but they're not artists - they're great writers and are awesome at Photoshop, but not artists. 

I've always been terrible at making friends though.


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## Judge Spear (Nov 4, 2013)

I speak with an artist through a sock on FA and Skype a lot. He's been burned a LOT by a good chunk of artists. A few of which ended up on ED. So as far as FA goes, I would be cautious if I wanted to reach out to more. Some are outright dicks and it spans even to this subsection of FAF in my experience. That's why I haven't posted much, but it seems to have calmed significantly since the last time I had an altercation.


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## Smuttymutt (Nov 5, 2013)

I used to be on Conceptart and I absolutely loved it, it really helped me get better and I met a handful of people I can see myself being life long art friends with! ((i met alot more people but so many people quit its crazy))  It did die after jason manley decided to come back and ruin everything with the royalty issue but the sketchbook section is still helpful and theres a few critiques going on in that section. When everything went down I moved to CD the thing about them is they don't have a lot of variety and the critique reflects that. Its fine for fundamentals stuff etc but you wont get a ton of people who know about comics or animation or stuff related to both. Most of the people seem to want to be the next fang zhu or noah bradley and have never heard of nathan fowkes or a line of action. ((I was sad))

Oatley academy has a nice little section based on his circle of trust deal where people post sketchbooks ((more about the circle of trust http://paperwingspodcast.com/critique-groups/)) But you have to pay for the class (which also has been helpful but not everyones ready for it)

Either way I dont see why you should be scared to go there. Everyone starts from somewhere and people know that. Its just exciting to see people start and join into the journey and help each other grow and learn! Clicking on something and watching others click, sometimes you grow so close when someone has a breakthrough it feels the same as if you did! Why be afraid to join in on that? Why be afraid to start something you can look back on and laugh and remember how proud you were and see how far you have come! I still look back on my sketchbook from CA sometimes and I do just that! I appreciate where I was because I know where it has brought me and I appreciate now because I know i will be so much better in the future! Sounds pretty good to me =)


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 5, 2013)

http://www.trafficestimate.com/conceptart.org

Like I said other than the old posts it's not as helpful as it used to be. But we haven't prevented sketchbook posts here either. Just as long as they're work safe when you embed images and mark links NSFW when you're doing studies that aren't. I don't see any point in supporting a site that stole from its own community. 

There's also sketchbooks on CGhub and other sites. I have to pull a few more (since I don't remember off the top of my head) keeping track of animator's blogs and Facebook groups.


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## Rinz (Nov 6, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.trafficestimate.com/conceptart.org
> 
> Like I said other than the old posts it's not as helpful as it used to be. But we haven't prevented sketchbook posts here either. Just as long as they're work safe when you embed images and mark links NSFW when you're doing studies that aren't. I don't see any point in supporting a site that stole from its own community.
> 
> There's also sketchbooks on CGhub and other sites. I have to pull a few more (since I don't remember off the top of my head) keeping track of animator's blogs and Facebook groups.


Is ImagineFX still a place? Do they still do sketchbooks and stuff?


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 6, 2013)

Rinz said:


> Is ImagineFX still a place? Do they still do sketchbooks and stuff?



Yeah they actually do http://beta.imaginefx.com/gallery

http://community.imaginefx.com/forums/


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## Smuttymutt (Nov 6, 2013)

Arshes Nei said:


> http://www.trafficestimate.com/conceptart.org
> 
> Like I said other than the old posts it's not as helpful as it used to be. But we haven't prevented sketchbook posts here either. Just as long as they're work safe when you embed images and mark links NSFW when you're doing studies that aren't. I don't see any point in supporting a site that stole from its own community.
> 
> There's also sketchbooks on CGhub and other sites. I have to pull a few more (since I don't remember off the top of my head) keeping track of animator's blogs and Facebook groups.



I bought some of the videos when they were selling them and I was pretty pissed that the whole fiasco happened
How is posting in the Crit forum for help ,supporting Manley? 
((internet noob =S))


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## Arshes Nei (Nov 6, 2013)

Smuttymutt said:


> I bought some of the videos when they were selling them and I was pretty pissed that the whole fiasco happened
> How is posting in the Crit forum for help ,supporting Manley?
> ((internet noob =S))



Here, let me retry posting it in a way people can understand.

Imagine a guy has dirt lot in the back, he said he uses it to practice baseball because he got in a fight with other people playing baseball in a different dirt lot. Other people are allowed to play, some become stars and guy forms his own team with those players. He uses the dirt lot as the advertisement and publicity as where people got together and learned to play. This is fine, but then baseball player has issues with other players and wants to use the dirt lot for advertising purposes and own gratification - team players disagree but the owner of the lot puts up a sign and says that in order to keep using the lot, people need to donate their money to help improve it. He holds the dirt lot hostage where people thought it was a safe haven from other dirt lots. People donate for fear of losing their dirt lot and they want to support each other.

The starring team players are upset and leave. Dirt lot owner decides another tactic to have a training camp come in and help any baseball players/enthusiasts to come in and practice. The supplies and shirts that were to help fund the dirt lot somehow become financially tied with the training camp. Later it comes out the people who made the supplies to help support the dirt lot were not being paid. So the very lot that was held hostage that caused people to donate now see years later, the promise of improve the dirt lot hasn't happened and in fact people were getting sick because the owner neglected the lot and people were dumping trash and materials that were not good for other players. In fact some environmentalists have put in tape or closed signs warning players of the danger of the site. Some of the volunteers trying to help the players use the dirt lot have tried contacting the owner and often not getting timely responses.

People who were part of the training camp for players using the lot left but the owner of the lot intentionally didn't reveal this when new people were signing up to be part of the camp. One of the star players being announced in the camp filed a suit.

The training camp, also not wanting problems with the owner of the dirt lot have left and back and forth ensues on whose responsibility was it to pay the people who put in supplies to help fund the lot. Left.

Other issues ensued because players who learned on their own by support of other players are now hearing the owner try to take the credit since he owns the dirt lot. He is going around using his reputation on the dirt lot to gain more fame and money for himself. The players who are just there to improve initially don't care since they're just grateful for a free play to play in. But problems occur because the owner has also been known to sabotage player careers if they don't agree with how the lot is being handled. Players who have used the lot if they say anything in disagreement find out the dirt lot owner is buddies and brothers with various lawyers and send them out to hush them if they have something to say.


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