# Philosofur's Den - A Discord Server



## Zerzehn (May 3, 2020)

Hello everyone!


Philosofur's Den is a Discord server for those who want intellectually stimulating conversation. We offer something for everyone who desires membership to our fair server from debate, art (both SFW and not) to general camaraderie and pleasant conversation with one another.


We offer:


*Debates! *Debate anything you desire. We offer channels for several of our specialties.


Politics: Talk about current events, what the world leaders are up to, political theory and law.


Religion: Talk about stuff having to do with religion, its working and what religious leaders are doing in the world.


Philosophy and psychology: Metaphysics, epistemology, ethics and aesthetics! You may talk about the nature of humanity, what makes us tick and other things relating to psychology.


Science, technology and history: The latest developments in science and technology, as well as scientific theory such as evolution, gravity and even the complexity of quantum physics! Historical events such as the World Wars, the Troubles and Rome.


*Art!* We allow the artistic to express themselves here! We welcome artists to join in and share their craft with our community! Friendly feedback and constructive criticism shall improve your skills as we talk about your works from digital and traditional art, to writing prose and poetry and even music!


*NSFW sections!* We offer sections for those who are 18+, as long as you can prove that you are 18 or older.


*Community!* Most importantly, we offer a supportive community. For those invested in the refinement of ideas, we offer guidance and views from all angles to ensure that our atmosphere of free thought never stagnates. Even for those not interested in debate, we are friendly and our staff will act in a professional and friendly matter.


We are:


*LGBTQ+ affirming:* Your identity in Philosofur's Den is valid regardless who or what you are. Doesn't matter if you are gay, bi, trans, nonbinary, questioning, ace or whatever you may be. What matters is that you matter.


*A space where the neurodivergent, disabled and other disadvantaged groups can air their ideas: *We in fact welcome everyone of all backgrounds. We have a policy of not tolerating bad actors, in fact, who only seek to quell free thought with dogma.

*Understanding:* If you need a break from debate, no problem! We believe that while logical thinking is nice, we have room for empathy. A debate isn't about winning but understanding one another.


*Fun loving: *We also desire a server where fun can be had, where people can forge friendships and mingle.


So, we look forward to seeing you join our server. We just ask you come with a desire to learn, an open mind and a sense on how to coexist with your fellow user.

The link to our server is here. We look forward to seeing from you!


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## Zerzehn (May 4, 2020)

Bump


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## Zerzehn (May 5, 2020)

Bump, bump, no bump, bump, three vertical bumps, four bumps in a square.


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## PercyD (May 5, 2020)

Having like, actual moderated discussions/debates sounds like it would be cool.


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## Zerzehn (May 6, 2020)

We're still looking for new members.


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## Faexie (May 6, 2020)

Yeah, if it's well moderated (especially accrording to the values you mentioned above) it could be great.

If not it's going to turn into an alt-right fuckfest pretty quick XD


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## Zerzehn (May 6, 2020)

Ramona Rat said:


> Yeah, if it's well moderated (especially accrording to the values you mentioned above) it could be great.
> 
> If not it's going to turn into an alt-right fuckfest pretty quick XD


Our staff is very keen on that. If you spot any such, do let our staff know and we will deal with it.


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

Hello


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

Im wondering if in the server there is anyone around my age like I will turn 18 on september 23 and just curious because I wonder if I could join?


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## Zerzehn (May 6, 2020)

Eli_the_Wolf23 said:


> Im wondering if in the server there is anyone around my age like I will turn 18 on september 23 and just curious because I wonder if I could join?


You can but you cannot access the NSFW channels. You may have access to the debate channels.


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

Until I turn 18 on that day


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

And I wish to be in a relationship with another fur but I dont know if dating is allowed there


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## Zerzehn (May 6, 2020)

Eli_the_Wolf23 said:


> And I wish to be in a relationship with another fur but I dont know if dating is allowed there


We aren't a dating server.


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

Oof


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

it says mingle but eh


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 6, 2020)

I cringe.


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

dang


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## Faexie (May 6, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> Dead server + bad moderation + false advertising, 3/10 would not recommend


Wait, are you Cric? The false advertising accusation and the fact that your post happened right after Cric was banned makes me think so, I apologize if it's not the case

Btw the server is new, of course it's not very active yet XD


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 6, 2020)

Less than 10 days old = dead wow


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## Faexie (May 6, 2020)

Eli_the_Wolf23 said:


> it says mingle but eh


I think mingle in the sense of meeting new people? If a friendship or more develops from it it's cool, but most people don't feel comfortable being flirted with (or seeing someone anounce they're looking for love) in a space that isn't meant for that


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## Eli_the_Wolf23 (May 6, 2020)

true


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## Zerzehn (May 7, 2020)

Still looking for new members.


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## MaelstromEyre (May 8, 2020)

I just joined, hope it picks up!


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## Zerzehn (May 8, 2020)

It's pretty young, less than a week old. You're welcome to invite friends to it.


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## Zerzehn (May 9, 2020)

We're still looking for new members.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 9, 2020)

Think I should post this since I was one of the original staff and in under 10 days I had to leave. Don't join if you think ferals are okay. Apparently it's considered "zoophilic". And yes. Dragons apparently count.


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## Faexie (May 10, 2020)

What, even dragons? I would have assumed fantasy creatures would have been fair game at least...


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## Zerzehn (May 11, 2020)

Bumpity bumpity bumpity


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## Zerzehn (May 14, 2020)

Bump


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## Zerzehn (May 16, 2020)

Still looking for new members.


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## Zerzehn (May 18, 2020)

(Insert a self-referencial and self-deprecating quote about still being open to members here.)


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## Miigo (May 19, 2020)

Is it alright to join just for eg. the art aspect etc? Debating is not my thing but I'd love to discuss art and such !!


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## Zerzehn (May 19, 2020)

Miigo said:


> Is it alright to join just for eg. the art aspect etc? Debating is not my thing but I'd love to discuss art and such !!


Certainly!


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## Zerzehn (May 24, 2020)

Super bump


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## Zerzehn (May 24, 2020)

Bluefangcat said:


> Shitty server. Banned my friend (who is a non native english speaker) right out the gate for no reason other than how he talked being similar to a supposed previous member- didn't even let him explain himself or explain the situation to him before tossing him out. Server name is false advertising- you won't find freethinking or openmindedness here :/


Lmao, your "friend" literally tried to start drama and then you tried to guilt trip me.


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## contemplationistwolf (May 24, 2020)

No, I was just venting out an unpleasant experience. No intention to start any drama. You can believe whatever you wish though.


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## Outlander (May 24, 2020)

Off to a great start.


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## Zerzehn (May 26, 2020)

Bump


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## Stray Cat Terry (May 26, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Think I should post this since I was one of the original staff and in under 10 days I had to leave. Don't join if you think ferals are okay. Apparently it's considered "zoophilic". And yes. Dragons apparently count.





Zerzehn said:


> Lmao, your "friend" literally tried to start drama and then you tried to guilt trip me.



The advertisment itself got my interest, and I was going to join it but...

These give me second thoughts. How's it going over there now?

And by the way... Does 'we accept' mean 'we understand'? Or does it mean 'we don't care but don't get in our way'? No offense, but I have been to some like the latter... I'm being cautious.


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## ConorHyena (May 27, 2020)

Stray Cat Terry said:


> The advertisment itself got my interest, and I was going to join it but...
> 
> These give me second thoughts. How's it going over there now?
> 
> And by the way... Does 'we accept' mean 'we understand'? Or does it mean 'we don't care but don't get in our way'? No offense, but I have been to some like the latter... I'm being cautious.



The two members complaining on here are alts of people who got banned on this site for bad behaviour in the past. The server's nice, I'm on there too, I think you don't have to worry!


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## Outlander (May 27, 2020)

Worry not!

The people who have brought up issues with this server are in fact people who shouldn't be here in the first place, apparently. That means they're automatically acting in bad faith and any issues they raised should be completely ignored.

I know this because I'm a freethinker, and everyone else on the server is a freethinker, just like me!

So come and join for some fun, freethinking times.


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## Stray Cat Terry (May 27, 2020)

Great, guess I'm joining the party later when I'm vacant. Thanks! UwU


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## Attaman (May 27, 2020)

While I'm not a member of the server and have zero clue about the context of this discussion;


Bluefangcat said:


> So you're going to call everyone who disagrees with the actions of a server an alt, even when their account histories, ip addresses, and personalities prove otherwise? Seriously? What proof do you have of these accusations?


You're new to FAF, so you haven't the context, but we've had a recurring issue of Alt Accounts on here. One that forum moderation, if asked, would likely verify (not so much the _*who*_, since that starts to get into sketchy privacy / drama territory, but the existence of as much none the less).

"That covers the alternate accounts, but not account histories or IP addresses or personality" would be the normal response to that, yes, but...:
1) Several of these Alts made use of accounts that were several years old  (In some cases, even older than the original);
2) At least one of these accounts has actively advertised IP Mask / Proxy services _*on this forum no less*_ using Alternate accounts;
3) We've also had accounts trying to post with a different "personality" and type style, down to going from grammar like you see in this post to "thx again uwu u rock!" on the alternate account;

So while, again, I can't exactly comment on the specific context or users in this example, it's... not entirely unreasonable for people who've been on this site for a while to be a bit cautious / overzealous with such things.

Also when I say "we've had a recurring issue of Alt Accounts" on here, I don't mean in the sense like "Oh, we have one user who tries to slip through here once every three or four months". I mean "In the last year alone we've easily had over a dozen Alt Accounts banned, and there's at least a good 2-3 more (one of which self-admitted to being an Alt, no less!) who we're _*pretty*_ confident of Alts but don't have a Who and being a known Alt in and of itself isn't a ban-able offense".


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## contemplationistwolf (May 28, 2020)

Sure, sure. I bet according to you guys half the people who have visited these forums are Yakamaru.
Wooooh, Watch out! There's a Yakamaru behind your back right now!
I swear! Trying to talk philosophy in these forums was a huge mistake.


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## Deleted member 111470 (May 28, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Sure, sure. I bet according to you guys half the people who have visited these forums are Yakamaru.
> Wooooh, Watch out! There's a Yakamaru behind your back right now!
> I swear! Trying to talk philosophy in these forums was a huge mistake.



Who even mentioned yakamaru in this thread? You're naming him out of the blue, how would you even know who he is if you're new to the forums?


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## contemplationistwolf (May 28, 2020)

Rimna said:


> Who even mentioned yakamaru in this thread? You're naming him out of the blue, how would you even know who he is if you're new to the forums?


Because I was constantly accused of being him. First in this thread: https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/morality-law-and-governing-authority.1668104/ (15th post). And then within that discord server itself.


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## DingRawD (May 28, 2020)

One word to describe this:
*Oof*


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## contemplationistwolf (May 29, 2020)

Hmm, I just learned that banning an user in discord usually leads to their messages getting deleted, and I suspect that Zerzehn has been heavily misrepresenting things behind my back.
Here's my reconstruction of what actually happened:

First for context: I tried discussing the nature of morality in the thread I linked above. I argued that it's conductivity to power that determines what moral systems end up spreading. I got accused of being a fascist, despite clearly arguing that:
a) This doesn't mean that we should actually adopt the 'most power-conductive' moral systems
b) Fascist systems aren't actually that conductive to power, as proven by history
I also faced a lot of demagoguery and hostility in general.

I was drawn in by the advertisement of this server as a place of "open debate" that's "free of dogma", and decided to try it out.
I entered the server, introduced myself and had a bit of mindless small-talk. Then I had this conversation (reconstruction done to the best of my memory):


> *Me*: So, I remember when I tried discussing the nature of morality in FAF
> And it ended with a bunch of insecure-left dogmatists accusing me of being a fascist
> *Zerzehn*: Hmm. Are you really who you claim to be?
> *Me*: What? Are you suspecting me too?
> ...


And at that moment I got banned


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 29, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Hmm, I just learned that banning an user in discord usually leads to their messages getting deleted, and I suspect that Zerzehn has been heavily misrepresenting things behind my back.
> Here's my reconstruction of what actually happened:
> 
> First for context: I tried discussing the nature of morality in the thread I linked above. I argued that it's conductivity to power that determines what moral systems end up spreading. I got accused of being a fascist, despite clearly arguing that:
> ...


Tbh, and I've fallen into this before, anyone who seems right and suspicious is called Yakamaru here. Not saying you are him.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 29, 2020)

Yeah and Yakamaru would most definitely not like my post so you got that going for you LOL


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## Outlander (May 29, 2020)

A ghost used to roam these halls, that ghost was called Eversleep.

You see, Eversleep would never sleep. I don't know what he was banned for, but he kept coming back for years. Alt after alt, his ghost could never find peace.

He went so far as to make YouTube videos about the forum, going through threads and pointing out users he didn't like.

The people would rejoice when the ghost was seen again, meeting him with mockery and jokes about his presence. He warmed the hearts of members, as they knew the sight of his withered visage would bring much merriment to the forums.

Yes. Eversleep was a true legend, and definitely not just a sad boy we laughed at who eventually got over himself.

Now we just have some right winger whose memory we use to chase off new members?

How far we done fell FAF, how far we done fell.


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## Telnac (May 29, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Hmm, I just learned that banning an user in discord usually leads to their messages getting deleted, and I suspect that Zerzehn has been heavily misrepresenting things behind my back.
> Here's my reconstruction of what actually happened:
> 
> First for context: I tried discussing the nature of morality in the thread I linked above. I argued that it's conductivity to power that determines what moral systems end up spreading. I got accused of being a fascist, despite clearly arguing that:
> ...


It's irritating that every new member who happens to not follow the group think is immediately assumed to be an alt of Yakamaru. For the record: I know Yakamaru. I know ContemplationistWolf. ContemplationistWolf is not Yakamaru.


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## Telnac (May 29, 2020)

Attaman said:


> While I'm not a member of the server and have zero clue about the context of this discussion;
> 
> You're new to FAF, so you haven't the context, but we've had a recurring issue of Alt Accounts on here. One that forum moderation, if asked, would likely verify (not so much the _*who*_, since that starts to get into sketchy privacy / drama territory, but the existence of as much none the less).
> 
> ...


Yeah I know of FAF's history with alts. That's because anyone with a decent VPN can make an account that appears to be new and unique. However rather than assuming someone new who doesn't follow the group think is an alt unless they prove otherwise (an impossible thing to do), how about keeping an eye on someone suspected of being an alt and waiting until they slip up and either forget to turn on their VPN and log in with a banned IP address or (failing that) actually break a rule before banning them?

Banning people just because you suspect them of being an alt isn't a good sign that your server embraces free thinking at all. I love debate but there's no way in going to join this server.


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 29, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Hmm, I just learned that banning an user in discord usually leads to their messages getting deleted, and I suspect that Zerzehn has been heavily misrepresenting things behind my back.
> Here's my reconstruction of what actually happened:
> 
> First for context: I tried discussing the nature of morality in the thread I linked above. I argued that it's conductivity to power that determines what moral systems end up spreading. I got accused of being a fascist, despite clearly arguing that:
> ...


Yakamaru is kind of the forum boogeyman and a sort of proxy when people don't want to outright call you nazi, fascist, or whatever.
People will try to accuse others of either being him or working with him in some kind of conspiratorial plot.
A friend of mine got threatened by one of these people on Twitter because of this, actually.


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## Lucyfur (May 29, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Hmm, I just learned that banning an user in discord usually leads to their messages getting deleted, and I suspect that Zerzehn has been heavily misrepresenting things behind my back.
> Here's my reconstruction of what actually happened:
> 
> First for context: I tried discussing the nature of morality in the thread I linked above. I argued that it's conductivity to power that determines what moral systems end up spreading. I got accused of being a fascist, despite clearly arguing that:
> ...



so I want to say because I don’t just outright trust people.
I’m analytical to a degree and research things when I am curious.
So with individuals I do talk with on discord from here like, surprise surprise, @Toby_Morpheus and see them alluded to as Nazis or Alt right when they’re actually pretty left even more so than the right of center party called the Democrats I do research.

In my research I looked at discourse with yakamaru I found him on Twitter looked through his timeline even talked with him on discord.
And outside of some vernaculars really just the R word I saw nothing that would make him really a Nazi or alt right.
Sure he is right leaning but not really radical or anything like that.

this is all to say that there are people here who misuse terms or labels that attribute to diminishing the weight of those words and also to vilify people through the wrong lens.

tldr yakamaru while right winged in politics is not a Nazi or alt right.


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## Balskarr (May 29, 2020)

Toby_Morpheus said:


> Yakamaru is kind of the forum boogeyman and a sort of proxy when people don't want to outright call you nazi, fascist, or whatever.
> People will try to accuse others of either being him or working with him in some kind of conspiratorial plot.
> A friend of mine got threatened by one of these people on Twitter because of this, actually.


*Boogeyman*

This is the word I most certainly would use when talking about Yakamaru. To a mostly left leaning forum that is exactly how he is viewed here and I'm disgusted at how many times random people have been accused of being the guy with efforts being taken to discredit those accused at every turn. This practice is ridiculous and needs to be stopped until at the very least some proof can be provided.


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 29, 2020)

Balskarr said:


> *Boogeyman*
> 
> This is the word I most certainly would use when talking about Yakamaru. To a mostly left leaning forum that is exactly how he is viewed here and I'm disgusted at how many times random people have been accused of being the guy with efforts being taken to discredit those accused at every turn. This practice is ridiculous and needs to be stopped until at the very least some proof can be provided.


Feel free to PM me with a Discord handle. I'll produce everything I've been provided and you can make your own decision.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 29, 2020)

I'm member, not a mod, in this server and so far I've enjoyed my experience for the most part. I'm conservative and I haven't been harassed for my beliefs or political opinions in the server by general membership, so I just want to dispel the canard that conservative users are being picked on here. Everyone mostly gets along or at least ignores the people they don't get along with. I can see myself being member here for a long time here because of that atmosphere.

On the issue of Yakamaru, I'll say he probably wasn't banned for his conservative beliefs, which I saw little of in practice, but rather the anti-semitic, racist, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic rhetoric he frequently slipped into his political rhetorical while proclaiming himself to be apolitical. There are enough old heads posting here to exactly what Yakamaru did deserve mod action, so let's not engage in any revisionism here. 

I bring up Yakamaru to provide context for newer users and prospective members to the server.

Now, regardless of whether one of users was Yakamaru or not, they broke more than a few server rules members are expected to abide by within an astonishing short time which led to their ban from the server, a decision most people in server agreed with, both right and left. They came into the server complaining about how they were maligned as being a fascist out of the blue, in the general chat of the server, immediately upon being admitted. They were rude to the server administrator and another member when they questioned why they were randomly bringing up that topic. To my eye, it seemed they brought being accused of fascism purely to pick a fight in the server. This escalated until admin made the call to ban him and someone helping him perpetrate the disturbance after dealing calmly with them to entire time. That disturbance as well the actions of this user here on the forum convince me this was right decision, including how they liked comments insisting users read the manifestos of incel terrorists who were responsible for innocent deaths. Even if they aren't Yakamaru, I don't feel this user was a good fit for the server and I certainly don't think that their attempts to stir drama on this promotional thread are helping their case either. 

That is my opinion.


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## Deleted member 111470 (May 30, 2020)

Can you please stop arguing about fascism, or calling out banned members in a thread about a discord server? It's (I suppose) fine to leave your two cents on the server, but come on. I am not a member of this server and I don't want to be, but this is just wrong. What was that saying in english... "stop airing your dirty laundry in front of everyone".


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

Rimna said:


> Can you please stop arguing about fascism, or calling out banned members in a threat about a discord server? It's (I suppose) fine to leave your two cents on the server, but come on. I am not a member of this server and I don't want to be, but this is just wrong. What was that saying in english... "stop airing your dirty laundry in front of everyone".


I feel that, but mysteriously, people who aren't even in the server and have no interest in being in it are airing out that laundry ... for reasons. I like this place enough to not want to see it dragged through the mud for a basic disciplinary measure to cut down on drama. But some people are stirring up the drama here anyway.


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## Deleted member 111470 (May 30, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I feel that, but mysteriously, people who aren't even in the server and have no interest in being in it are airing out that laundry ... for reasons. I like this place enough to not want to see it dragged through the mud for a basic disciplinary measure to cut down on drama. But some people are stirring up the drama here anyway.



This was addressed to everyone, not just you, or just one person. I should have worded it better - I'm sorry.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

Rimna said:


> This was addressed to everyone, not just you, or just one person. I should have worded it better - I'm sorry.


I got your meaning; I was just explaining my reasoning for commenting. Sorry if that came out directed at you.


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## Stray Cat Terry (May 30, 2020)

Hmm... As I'm always neutral, I see what's going on. But you know, if any group of people is sticking to a moral(?) and start to label someone as a public enemy/threat, even the neutral ones that try to be actually neutral while joining the conflict may seem to be protecting those 'public enemies'. In short, the neutral participants can be viewed as enemies too.

So... I guess not intervening is the best bet if you really wanna see everything without getting blocked by certain side or something.

By the way, when this labeling stuff happens on me, I simply try to be unaggressive, which might be the best I can do to show I'm not hostile. And even if this won't change people's mind, I simply let them be. Because I know, no matter what kind of groups, they will go down without constant support of new members. If one really wants to thrive, and if they are highly defensive, it's going to be harder to keep up the group.

Once there was a group like what I just said, which I once wholeheartedly supported as a co-founder. I saw them doing this and they won't listen, so I quit. Later they broke down and is now a wasteland. Plus, I have gained no enemies by leaving them alone. Which is the best possible scenario (for me) in this case.

So instead, now I'm being a traveler/member rather than a leader/moderator, this is much easier to be neutral and makes you potentially fit any groups you go. I join, have fun, and keep having fun or let them be when a drama happens.

As I observe, this group haven't gone too far. So there's a possibility that can negotiate stuffs and maybe get more considerate. It's hard, I know. But maybe... if you want to get rid of potential antis from dramas, you can always think twice before judging someone. Just my opinion, no offense at all. Plus, having antis against a group shall make it tricky for both leaders and members of the group.

And if the one you actually let in was truly a troll/enemy, you can kick them or whatever after that. While it might be prone to a disaster, after all, the winner is you, and you have also proved everyone that your initial judgement was right. That's a win after all, isn't it?

Plus, to be selfish, I have no responsibility on this and may just watch the fire burn or otherwise. But as I see potential of negotiation, I'm just saying.

As I'm already in the server, I see nothing wrong and the mods are even more welcoming and kind than any other groups I have experienced. I'm not biased and just saying what I saw there. So it makes me think the stuff I just said surely is present, the misunderstanding.

And...maybe the 'targeted' people could be less aggressive (if they were), because aggressiveness only fuels the tension of the conflict than fending your position.

Maybe I'm talking about Idea, but that's the solution so far as I observe. Both sides need to be less aggressive.

Imagine the actual 'one' viewing this situation. If they aren't even in this conflict, you are giving them a great popcorn time.


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I'm member, not a mod, in this server and so far I've enjoyed my experience for the most part. I'm conservative and I haven't been harassed for my beliefs or political opinions in the server by general membership, so I just want to dispel the canard that conservative users are being picked on here. Everyone mostly gets along or at least ignores the people they don't get along with. I can see myself being member here for a long time here because of that atmosphere.
> 
> On the issue of Yakamaru, I'll say he probably wasn't banned for his conservative beliefs, which I saw little of in practice, but rather the anti-semitic, racist, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic rhetoric he frequently slipped into his political rhetorical while proclaiming himself to be apolitical. There are enough old heads posting here to exactly what Yakamaru did deserve mod action, so let's not engage in any revisionism here.
> 
> ...


Here is the thing
I have dug through the history of the forum looked at Yakamaru’s posts
I have dug through the Twitter just the same.

has he said some problematic or rather tactless things? Yeah

but when you use someone as an example of an “alt right”, or “Nazi” when they aren’t you diminish that word. Just say he was a right leaning guy you didn’t like.

I mean hell should I start calling some overly aggressive right of center I mean Democrats Misha? Because they’ll get real aggressive and are likely to call you a fascist and verbally abuse if not possibly make physical threats to people for not supporting their guy?

the point is call a spade a spade and stop using boogeyman names especially if you’re gonna portray them incorrectly.

based off the evidence btw yakamaru isn’t  homophobic or transphobic or anti-Semitic And the most racist thing I’ve seen is his preference sexually.


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## Fallowfox (May 30, 2020)

I really didn't want to have to post here. 

So that people understand what this forum went through, I have provided spoilered links to previous posts by a selection of these users who were banned. 

I have put them in spoilers because I recognise it is not fair for people to be exposed to them, and I have anonymised the messages to prevent anybody from seeking to confront or contact them- because it's possible that some of the users making these posts had mental health problems, and we also have to be mindful of their well being. 



Spoiler
























It is very important that people remember what happened and do not try to rehabilitate the reputaitons of these banned users. 
Their views *did not* represent normal conservative perspectives. 

We should all be very thankful for the diligent work that the staff did removing this content- because no human should be expected to trawl through that much filth, 
and they did this job under duress as they were harassed and accused of being unfair for doing it. I know I don't envy that job.


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 30, 2020)

It's what happens when you make a 'listen and believe' culture.
It's all fine and dandy until someone steps out of line and the morality police rolls in and starts making baseless accusations.
Then when you call them on their shit, they back up and change their tune or ask everyone to stop or calm down.

Where is this attitude when members start falsely accusing others of being someone or being associated with someone, hm?
We have people here getting judged without evidence and that's okay?
Why? That's just the natural order of things?

Say something someone dislikes and you're a nazi, an alt-right, a Yakamaru? Ban ban ban ban ban. Don't bother investigating. No no no.
That might take too much effort and might make our faulty image fall apart more.

Down with the facade. Down with the establishment.


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## contemplationistwolf (May 30, 2020)

There has been a lot of character assassination performed against me lately, so I think I'll set the record straight as to who I actually am:
Politically speaking, I think I'd qualify as socially very liberal and economically moderate according to common classification. I don't think much about these labels though, as my actual worldview can't really be properly encapsulated by them.
IRL I voted for the most liberal and pro-gay party in my country (they lost badly).
I'm also a gay person myself, and an Aspie (and being Aspie is oftentimes more difficult than being gay). I'm from a country that's less developed than the west and had no support systems for these things, so this combination didn't make my life easy. I've done well enough though, so I'm not interested in whining (it's unproductive anyways). Because of my environment, I don't really have the same kind of mentality and (IMO naive) beliefs as many 20-something western liberals do.

My perspective of what has happened is this:
I went to the politics section with the desire to have honest and moralizing free discussions on topics that interested me, and with a strong desire to hear different viewpoints. Instead I had some people quickly label me as fascist based on *very* weak evidence. I kept explaining myself for a *very *long time, but they didn't really listen. They ignored any evidence that I'm not such, and went *very* *far *to misrepresent the things I said in order to make it look like I actually am a fascist.
I've linked the threads I was involved in within my signature. I was also lately involved in this thread: https://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/is-the-incel-movement-a-threat.1668698/
That's basically the current extent of my involvement in FAF politics. Any neutral parties can go look at the source material and judge for themselves.

Oh, and to all the self-proclaimed 'liberals' who were involved in slandering me: You probably think you are good people, but judging from the evidence, I myself think the opposite. You remind me a lot of my middle-school bullies. Also, I think you are complete hypocrites. You think you have driven out the neo-nazis, but you have actually driven out a lot of genuinely good people: that includes my awesome, libertarian former-debate-partner Rassah.
BTW, none of what happened felt good for me, but I suspect you guys don't have any actual empathy anyways.


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> There has been a lot of character assassination performed against me lately, so I think I'll set the record straight as to who I actually am:
> Politically speaking, I think I'd qualify as socially very liberal and economically moderate according to common classification. I don't think much about these labels though, as my actual worldview can't really be properly encapsulated by them.
> IRL I voted for the most liberal and pro-gay party in my country (they lost badly).
> I'm also a gay person myself, and an Aspie (and being Aspie is oftentimes more difficult than being gay). I'm from a country that's less developed than the west and had no support systems for these things, so this combination didn't make my life easy. I've done well enough though, so I'm not interested in whining (it's unproductive anyways). Because of my environment, I don't really have the same kind of mentality and (IMO naive) beliefs as many 20-something western liberals do.
> ...



This is why I jumped in here with the knowledge I have when it comes to how some people operate and throw labels on people without actual justification to justify their own actions to silence them.

Btw if you ever feel like you need to vent or talk to someone my inbox is open to everyone.


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## contemplationistwolf (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> This is why I jumped in here with the knowledge I have when it comes to how some people operate and throw labels on people without actual justification to justify their own actions to silence them.
> 
> Btw if you ever feel like you need to vent or talk to someone my inbox is open to everyone.


Thanks a lot!
It was actually my first experience in a political forum-section, and my second experience debating online (first experience was basically a dialogue with Rassah). I didn't know to expect any of this ... I assumed the stated rules were actually being enforced. I also had way too much good faith towards the people here.


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Thanks a lot!
> It was actually my first experience in a political forum-section, and my second experience debating online (first experience was basically a dialogue with Rassah). I didn't know to expect any of this ... I assumed the stated rules were actually being enforced. I also had way too much good faith towards the people here.


It’s just a pocket of people majority here are pretty chill and don’t get in your craw for not agreeing with them.


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## contemplationistwolf (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> It’s just a pocket of people majority here are pretty chill and don’t get in your craw for not agreeing with them.


Good to know!
I wonder. Would it be productive to debate publicly if I just blocked that pocket, or will it still be too risky? Is it actually a good idea to debate publicly at all?


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## Fallowfox (May 30, 2020)

I think that it's kind of gone far enough here turning somebody's discord thread into a drama. Taking anger out on people like this isn't really acceptable; the normal thing to do is just to move on with your life. 

I've joined this group today and hopefully this thread can just go back to...actually being about the group.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

I'm going to reply to three salient points here.

1. The aforementioned user who was banned was primarily banned for their poor behavior in the server, with them being an alt account of a banned user being a secondary consideration. This user and some of their associates are harassing the mods and members of this server to get their way and the displaying the same type of behavior that got that user banned from the server. 

2. It is highly suspicious that a group of users who have no intention of joining the server are trying to press the issue and simultaneously clean up the bigoted comments of Yakamaru here on the forum when we know this user previously displayed such and was extremely offensive to users here.

3. However you feel about this situation, here is not the place to complain about it since this is a promotional thread, especially if you no intention of joining the server in the first place. 



Fallowfox said:


> I think that it's kind of gone far enough here turning somebody's discord thread into a drama. Taking anger out on people like this isn't really acceptable; the normal thing to do is just to move on with your life.
> 
> I've joined this group today and hopefully this thread can just go back to...actually being about the group.


Welcome!


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## contemplationistwolf (May 30, 2020)

This is all very much relevant, as these people tried to shut down criticism of this server through character assassination.
Also, you've engaged in *far* more unacceptable behavior yourself.


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## Fallowfox (May 30, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Welcome!



You're going to be forcibly exposed to even more of my bad art now. >:}


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> You're going to be forcibly exposed to even more of my bad art now. >:}


I'm a fan, so this is a good thing.


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## Zerzehn (May 30, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> You're going to be forcibly exposed to even more of my bad art now. >:}


My dude, it's not bad. I quite like it, in fact. Give yourself some credit!


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## Outlander (May 30, 2020)

Zerzehn said:


> My dude, it's not bad. I quite like it, in fact. Give yourself some credit!


Correct. Fallow's artwork is certainly more interesting than most of the furry artwork I've found over the years, and I mean that entirely positively.

Word to the wise, you're perfectly able to fix the damage that's been caused to your server's image in this thread. Would you like me to tell you how?


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## Frank Gulotta (May 30, 2020)

Outlander said:


> Word to the wise, you're perfectly able to fix the damage that's been caused to your server's image in this thread. Would you like me to tell you how?


It's been a drama hive since day one tho, good to see it's still going, holy shit. So either they mysteriously attract drama, or they're causing it. The only advice you could tell them is, "don't behave as poorly as you do"


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

Frank Gulotta said:


> It's been a drama hive since day one tho, good to see it's still going, holy shit. So either they mysteriously attract drama, or they're causing it. The only advice you could tell them is, "don't behave as poorly as you do"


Respectfully, Frank, that is comedy coming from you.

The drama here is coming from users who aren't server members who are clearly looking to butt in on a server issue AND simultaneously argue that a banned user actually wasn't so bad, despite clear evidence to contrary. It's pretty clear you all coordinating this and trying poking the fire here to keep it going when the affected party could have simply left a single complaint and been off with themselves.


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 30, 2020)

Bluefangcat said:


> See, this wouldn't be so much of an issue if op wasn't deleting their posts and making it seem as if they were a totally innocent party just dealing with alting raiders, rather than a server owner who banned a member on unjust grounds and attacked two new users for no good reason other than joining at the same time and the language they used. I planned on leaving after my last post, but I wanted to state that there's no coordination going on here. People have had negative experiences with the server, people state said negative experiences with the server in its thread. Would have happily left after my first post if some hack hadn't claimed that contemplationist and i were just alts and thus our complaints were unjustified/trying to make the server look bad for no reason, and the server was totally accepting and good to new members. All I want is to get the word out there that this server isn't as accepting as it seems, the admin is deleting their posts in this thread, and that the moderators seriously need to be more thoughtful with their actions.


Oh it isn't just the server, but a section of the fandom as a whole.
It's rotting and clinging onto it isn't going to help anyone or bring new users in, regardless of ideology.
When someone can express an idea that even appears to be off-color but may not considering the context, the gatekeepers come out and shut them down.

That's not the kind of fandom anyone wants to be in.


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Respectfully, Frank, that is comedy coming from you.
> 
> The drama here is coming from users who aren't server members who are clearly looking to butt in on a server issue AND simultaneously argue that a banned user actually wasn't so bad, despite clear evidence to contrary. It's pretty clear you all coordinating this and trying poking the fire here to keep it going when the affected party could have simply left a single complaint and been off with themselves.



Miles my point stands on Yakamaru.
From what I have seen with his name on it he is not this big bad demon from a Nazi sect or the Alt-right.
The 'evidence' you provide has no identifier to him and has more black blocks of redactions than a Top Secret document being Declassed.
Twitter just a plot line for typical conservative points nothing extreme or radical nothing that shouts im a racist homophobic transphobe.

This isn't me trying to say unban him though based off what the public can see of his presence he isn't this boogey man.

Really all it does is lends to the fact that when someone doesnt fall into the lines of thought of others they get that label thrown at them, or that theyre and alt of them, or that theyre influenced by someone with a connection to them.

This is something I have seen, something I have had thrown my way, and something I had to crush when being thrown at another with false narrative driving it.

This isn't a coordinated attack it is merely something that others have noticed which is probably why they too are speaking up.

Stop calling people who disagree with you that you want to silence Nazis, alt-right, Yakamaru, alts, or any other variety of labels you want to use to try and hush those you disagree with.

(This is a royal you btw not a singling out you.)

Thank you~


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

Bluefangcat said:


> See, this wouldn't be so much of an issue if op wasn't deleting their posts and making it seem as if they were a totally innocent party just dealing with alting raiders, rather than a server owner who banned a member on unjust grounds and attacked two new users for no good reason other than joining at the same time and the language they used. I planned on leaving after my last post, but I wanted to state that there's no coordination going on here. People have had negative experiences with the server, people state said negative experiences with the server in its thread. Would have happily left after my first post if some hack hadn't claimed that contemplationist and i were just alts and thus our complaints were unjustified/trying to make the server look bad for no reason, and the server was totally accepting and good to new members. All I want is to get the word out there that this server isn't as accepting as it seems, the admin is deleting their posts in this thread, and that the moderators seriously need to be more thoughtful with their actions.


Well, you've said your piece, multiple times. Now could you please stop harassing the OP and the members here while letting your words speak for themselves instead engaging in the exact kind of behavior that got your friend banned?


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 30, 2020)

And by the way, for anyone questioning what all this bickering has to do with the server: Look at its title.
Freethinking Furs.

What's the definition of freethought?
*Freethought* (or *free thought*)[1] is an epistemological viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed only on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or dogma.
Freethought - Wikipedia

The behavior witnessed by the two ex-users does not fit freethought whatsoever.
That's where the problem lies and it's deeper than just one discord server.


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> Miles my point stands on Yakamaru.
> From what I have seen with his name on it he is not this big bad demon from a Nazi sect or the Alt-right.
> The 'evidence' you provide has no identifier to him and has more black blocks of redactions than a Top Secret document being Declassed.
> Twitter just a plot line for typical conservative points nothing extreme or radical nothing that shouts im a racist homophobic transphobe.
> ...


The only thing even relatively coordinated in regards to this thread is mine and @LucyTheDumbYeen 's investigation on Yakamaru and our findings.
Guess what? We still don't like him and we wouldn't even argue that he should be brought back.

The rest of these people? Complete randos we've had little to no contact with beforehand.
If someone doesn't wanna believe that, well... too bad.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

@LucyTheDumbYeen , look.

This is a thread about promoting the server and reviewing the server, not discussing the past drama with banned members. But I will say a few things about in regard to the Yakamaru to set the record straight. I was here well before when Yakamaru was running amok here. His behavior was extremely bigoted, he was quick to denigrate minorities, and he bragged about belonging to Altfurry, the pathetic furry version of Alt-Right, multiple times. He pushed Alt-Tech sites. I haven't called him a Nazi, but I would feel comfortable classing as Alt-Right/Alt-Right. I disagree with your assessment of Yakamaru, which I feel isn't informed by experience with the man here and is based off an account of himself he gave to you. However, you believe it and feel this is someone you want to associate yourself, be my guest. Clearly you've have a slight in tone on him, I'll note.

Know that this isn't the place to litigate how we feel about Yakamaru, however. 

This is a thread to promote a server where members are enjoying themselves and are largely accepting of all members. I think the dramamongering by people with no interest in the server while praising someone who clearly could follow the rules here on this forum speaks to harassment campaign that was drummed up for less than legitimate reasons. 

@Bluefangcat , nobody is maligning you except for your repeated posting on this thread despite having already stated your grievances, which have been noted. You left your review, so it is hardly necessary for you continue this, correct?


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> @LucyTheDumbYeen , look.
> 
> This is a thread about promoting the server and reviewing the server, not discussing the past drama with banned members. But I will say a few things about in regard to the Yakamaru to set the record straight. I was here well before when Yakamaru was running amok here. His behavior was extremely bigoted, he was quick to denigrate minorities, and he bragged about belonging to Altfurry, the pathetic furry version of Alt-Right, multiple times. He pushed Alt-Tech sites. I haven't called him a Nazi, but I would feel comfortable classing as Alt-Right/Alt-Right. I disagree with your assessment of Yakamaru, which I feel isn't informed by experience with the man here and is based off an account of himself he gave to you. However, you believe it and feel this is someone you want to associate yourself, be my guest. Clearly you've have a slight in tone on him, I'll note.
> 
> ...



For the Record I agree with and cosign this statement:
"The only thing even relatively coordinated in regards to this thread is mine and @LucyTheDumbYeen 's investigation on Yakamaru and our findings.
Guess what? We still don't like him and we wouldn't even argue that he should be brought back."
- @Toby_Morpheus 

This is to clarify intent. This is to clarify that yes I interacted and talked with the dreaded demon Yakamaru beyond just his account of things, but actual candid conversations as that is the best way to get the feel of someone.
Yeah I don't agree with his views, but the point here is you have a user who you or someone within your circle tried to silence by labeling them Yakamaru

This conversation is in fact the culmination of your and your social circle's chickens coming back to roost.
Again when you try to silence people with the label of Alt-right or Nazi or that they are playing into their hands or are being manipulated by them you are effectively employing tactics to silence them you are employing tactics to give a sense of false bravado to yourself in your points and ultimately you are only lending to the devaluation of the weight of what those labels mean.

Not all bigots are Nazis or alt right
Same goes for any terrible person. Call people what they are don't try to elevate beyond that as a jab to silence them.

You banned someone from your server of free thinking for what btw? Free thinking?


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> For the Record I agree with and cosign this statement:
> "The only thing even relatively coordinated in regards to this thread is mine and @LucyTheDumbYeen 's investigation on Yakamaru and our findings.
> Guess what? We still don't like him and we wouldn't even argue that he should be brought back."
> - @Toby_Morpheus
> ...


This part is kind of pointless for two reasons. One, and I'm humoring you here, even you and supposedly Toby admit he shouldn't be brought back here and I agree not only based on his bigoted beliefs but also his offensive and objectionable behavior outside of that as well. Two, I'm not interested in talking about Yakamaru and neither is the OP since this is a promotional for the server where users can leave reviews. Yakamaru is way off topic in regards to that. So is any other drama going with you that you feel has been thrust upon you. 


LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> You banned someone from your server of free thinking for what btw? Free thinking?


I'll note that disruptive behavior was the other thing that the user was banned for in the server. We trying to not repeated bring this up out of respect for them.


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> This part is kind of pointless for two reasons. One, and I'm humoring you here, even you and supposedly Toby admit he shouldn't be brought back here and I agree not only based on his bigoted beliefs but also his offensive and objectionable behavior outside of that as well. Two, I'm not interested in talking about Yakamaru and neither is the OP since this is a promotional for the server where users can leave reviews. Yakamaru is way off topic in regards to that. So is any other drama going with you that you feel has been thrust upon you.
> 
> I'll note that disruptive behavior was the other thing that the user was banned for in the server. We trying to not repeated bring this up out of respect for them.



thank you for not denying your tactic to silence people by falsely labeling them things they are not.

and this concerns the server as it was a tactic used against the individual “complaining”

which is why i have decided to shed light on this method that you and yours implement against those you don’t agree with in some level or some form or another not just on that server but on these forums and even through someone’s DMs on Twitter.

consider this a before you buy label if you will.


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## Zerzehn (May 30, 2020)

Seriously, people.

*This is a thread for the promotion of a server.*

The fact we have this drama here is unnecessary. 

The fact that this happened was started over a member who was banned for wanting to start drama (with him possibly being an alt of Yaka being secondary) in the server.

Think about this:

What you do you make of someone suddenly saying "insecure left-dogmatists" after a conversation about Dungeons and Dragons?

While I am open that if Contemplationistwolf might be honest but reading the remarks from him, I still stand by my ban.

To repeat, *Contemplationistwolf was banned for attempting to start drama.
*
Since we apparently live in a post-truth society where a hundred people can witness the same thing and still be wrong.

This is my notice, this just a thread to promote my server. You're free to leave a bad review but seriously, this drama is honestly pathetic.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> thank you for not denying your tactic to silence people by falsely labeling them things they are not.


I mean, I didn't and it's silly you frame it this is way.


LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> and this concerns the server as it was a tactic used against the individual “complaining”
> 
> which is why i have decided to shed light on this method that you and yours implement against those you don’t agree with in some level or some form or another not just on that server but on these forums and even through someone’s DMs on Twitter.
> 
> consider this a before you buy label if you will.


You can go through my post history and see that I haven't labelled anyone something they weren't. However, I'm open to criticisms in another thread or via DMs if you want to lobby that evidence at me.

I would for you leave Zerzhan and the server community out of this because clearly they were dealing with a disciplinary issue, you have made your somewhat irrelevant thoughts abundantly on the matter, and you have been repeatedly asked to move on.


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## Toby_Morpheus (May 30, 2020)

Zerzehn said:


> Seriously, people.
> 
> *This is a thread for the promotion of a server.*
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but when you weigh "starting drama" and "suspected of being Alt-right Nazi Yakamaru" I imagine the scales would tilt so hard in favor of the Nazi reason that the Egyptian God Ammut would blush. (You know, the one that used a scale to weigh your heart after you die)

As far as "insecure left-dogmatists" go, what can I say?
I wasn't there and nobody sure as hell is going to provide chat logs, right? Or context?
Just... just going to take that one thing out and... and run with it.

What's this place called again? Freethinking Furs?
11/10 would recommend.

There's your review.
Deuces.


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## Izzy4895 (May 30, 2020)

Discussing personal grievances over something that happened on an off-site Discord server seems like harassment (CoC 2.4) to me.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 30, 2020)

Izzy4895 said:


> Discussing personal grievances over something that happened on an off-site Discord server seems like harassment (CoC 2.4) to me.


I don't like being called a zoophile for having a four legged character. A dragon for christ's sake. I will air my greivances as I was one of the three original mods in the server. A review is not harassment.


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## Simo (May 30, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> I think that it's kind of gone far enough here turning somebody's discord thread into a drama. Taking anger out on people like this isn't really acceptable; the normal thing to do is just to move on with your life.



I couldn't agree more: So a Discord server doesn't work out for you. Drop it and move on to one that does. If I had a dollar for every Discord server that wasn't a good fit, I'd be rich.

It's really beyond me as to why people get so wound up and don't spend their time on things that make them happy, unless drama itself makes you happy.


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## Lucyfur (May 30, 2020)

Simo said:


> I couldn't agree more: So a Discord server doesn't work out for you. Drop it and move on to one that does. If I had a dollar for every Discord server that wasn't a good fit, I'd be rich.
> 
> It's really beyond me as to why people get so wound up and don't spend their time on things that make them happy.



perhaps providing forewarning to those looking for a server by giving input on what some it’s users do or how they operate does make us happy as we may enjoy keeping people informed.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> perhaps providing forewarning to those looking for a server by giving input on what some it’s users do or how they operate does make us happy as we may enjoy keeping people informed.


We happily accept your input and hope you enjoy your experience going forward.


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## Simo (May 30, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> perhaps providing forewarning to those looking for a server by giving input on what some it’s users do or how they operate does make us happy as we may enjoy keeping people informed.



I agree that a brief review of a Discord server can indeed be helpful and informative; I also think this thread has veered off the rails in that regard and become too emotionally charged and personal.


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## contemplationistwolf (May 31, 2020)

contemplationistwolf said:


> Hmm, I just learned that banning an user in discord usually leads to their messages getting deleted, and I suspect that Zerzehn has been heavily misrepresenting things behind my back.
> Here's my reconstruction of what actually happened:


Once again! Here's what actually happened.



Zerzehn said:


> What you do you make of someone suddenly saying "insecure left-dogmatists" after a conversation about Dungeons and Dragons?


I was venting out an unpleasant experience. I think what I said was an accurate characterization of what I went through in FAF. I thought that in a server that's 'opposed to dogma', it's appropriate to complain about it.
I said "insecure-left dogmatists" (notice the actual position of the hyphen) to specify that it's a subset of left. Never said that left as a whole is insecure or dogmatic; there's plenty of that among the rest of the political spectrum. Do you guys think the left doesn't have dogma and insecure people?
If you had given me the chance, I would have explained all of that within the server. I thought I was joining a community of like-minded people, and never wanted to start any drama.
I frankly think what I said is *very* *little *to accuse me of starting drama on, and you yourself launched directly into a personal attack from that.



Izzy4895 said:


> Discussing personal grievances over something that happened on an off-site Discord server seems like harassment (CoC 2.4) to me.


I think publicly insinuating that I'm an alt of a supposed neo-nazi and misrepresenting my actions is also harassment. There's been a lot of depraved behavior against me in these forums, these rules were never enforced.


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## ConorHyena (May 31, 2020)

At this point I think it may be a smart move to ping @SSJ3Mewtwo to have him look over this thead.


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## Miles Marsalis (May 31, 2020)

I want to save Zer some stress and it's late here, so let me point something and try a different tack. 

It's worth noting that for the parties who were banned from the server, and I'm addressing a specific case here, that no one new to this thread knew what you were banned for prior to you publicly announcing here. You aired that accusation out yourself. Now you have a right to a bad review, but you revealed the mod's reasoning for the ban against you. Neither the mods or us members did that. 

So please, I would ask to stop harassing the current and prospective members here now that you have said your piece. It has been duly noted. 

Thank you.


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## Frank Gulotta (May 31, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Respectfully, Frank, that is comedy coming from you.
> 
> The drama here is coming from users who aren't server members who are clearly looking to butt in on a server issue AND simultaneously argue that a banned user actually wasn't so bad, despite clear evidence to contrary. It's pretty clear you all coordinating this and trying poking the fire here to keep it going when the affected party could have simply left a single complaint and been off with themselves.


With all due respect, it feels like you're lacking critical information. There's no group of evil conspirators pullling strings in the shadows. Or if there is one, I've not been invited, so their invisible tentacles don't reach THAT far. Why would you go straight to "everyone is after me" without considering that maybe you're doing something wrong?


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## Fallowfox (May 31, 2020)

The irony is that the kind of person who responds to being kicked from a server by starting drama and trying to ruin it for everyone else is just...kinda showing why it was a good idea to get rid of them. :S



Simo said:


> I couldn't agree more: So a Discord server doesn't work out for you. Drop it and move on to one that does. If I had a dollar for every Discord server that wasn't a good fit, I'd be rich.



There are some truly weird discord servers out there if you look for them. I once found a philosophical discord server where somebody was arguing that god personally owned all objects in the universe- including people's farts. 

Like...okay _interesting_. Not sure why it was important to conclude that. ;D


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## Telnac (May 31, 2020)

I think we're beating a dead horse here. Everyone's said their piece. No one's going to change their minds. Best to drop it and move on.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 31, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> The irony is that the kind of person who responds to being kicked from a server by starting drama and trying to ruin it for everyone else is just...kinda showing why it was a good idea to get rid of them. :S
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again I was one of the original mods and I left of my own free will, not banned, for being called a zoo for having a four legged dragon character. I think people would like to know why the hell a mod left so early in its life span. I have every right to post my feelings so others don't fall into the same pit.


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## Outlander (May 31, 2020)

I believe this frankly hilarious derailment started when a user here responded to complaints/bad reviews of the server by stating that the people complaining were alts, without providing any proof, and should be ignored because of that.

Now because people are complaining about that logic they're being accused of harassment. Honestly, that response makes your server's mentality look terrible. Especially when you promote yourselves as freethinking.

I think the best thing to do from this point is forget about Yakamaru. Honestly, how is he even relevant to anything that's going on here now, on the forum or on your servers? What's the point over letting someone's memory have this much power over you. You're damaging the communities you're trying to create by holding onto this. Drop this nonsense and judge people based on what they say, not on what someone else said whenever ago.


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## Fallowfox (May 31, 2020)

Outlander Ovi, try to imagine how you would feel if you made a server and somebody was turning your thread into a drama all about themselves. 

There will always be somebody who doesn't like your server, because you cannot please everybody.

Find something you enjoy to occupy your day, instead of trying to prevent other people from enjoying themselves.


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## Deleted member 115426 (May 31, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Outlander Ovi, try to imagine how you would feel if you made a server and somebody was turning your thread into a drama all about themselves.
> 
> There will always be somebody who doesn't like your server, because you cannot please everybody.
> 
> Find something you enjoy to occupy your day, instead of trying to prevent other people from enjoying themselves.


My goal is not to prevent others from enjoying themselves. It is to prevent weary travelers from stopping at a bad inn.


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## Outlander (May 31, 2020)

Correct, although this thread was turned into a drama by someone who made an unsubstantiated alt claim in order to dismiss criticism. If we want to assign blame for this trainwreck then both parties/sides are responsible.

The solution is to stop arguing about potential alts and banned forum users, that goes to everyone.


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## Fallowfox (May 31, 2020)

Now go forth in peace, and love one another.


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## Outlander (May 31, 2020)

I wish it were that simple Fallow.

I just realized, if one of the considerations for contemplationistwolf being banned was that his words were reminiscent of Yakamaru. Then I have to ask, has Yakamaru visited and been banned from the server? 

Because if you're using the forum ban as a justification then part of the stated reason for banning contemplationist amounts to "he said something that sounds like someone we don't want here would say, even though the person we don't want here hasn't broken any server rules and may not even be aware this place exists"

If that's the case then it's truly astounding, and a problem with FAF's current mentality that really should be addressed.

I've noticed that several people have raised similar concerns here, not just in this thread but across the forum. And if the general response to those concerns are "that's reminiscent of something a banned user used to say, you're probably an alt and an alt right one at that", then this community has real problems.


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## Fallowfox (May 31, 2020)

Outlander can you please just move on? Apparently you haven't even used this discord; you're just white-knighting for a random user who was banned from it, even though you know this is spoiling other people's enjoyment. ._. 

Ultimately Zerzehn has the right to have a discord server how he likes it. If you don't like his server, you can make your own- and if you do I will respect your space by avoiding cluttering it up with comments about how rotten I think you are.


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## Balskarr (May 31, 2020)

Outlander said:


> I wish it were that simple Fallow.
> 
> I just realized, if one of the considerations for contemplationistwolf being banned was that his words were reminiscent of Yakamaru. Then I have to ask, has Yakamaru visited and been banned from the server?
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more on this. Something has to be said about the " Alt" shaming and witch hunting that goes on around the forums and their adjacent communities on various platforms. The mere mention of it upon someone being enough to denounce their rights to proper non hostile interaction.

This derailment has happened because yet another user has been a victim now and their words struck a cord with those wanting to speak up about what goes on here. It is unfortunate it had to graft itself onto another thread but that was really the only way it would survive. If brought up as it's own thread then it would have likely been given the same treatment as Contemplationist here. Doubt it would last long until locked either and I'm sure those that have brought up the grievances here feel that way.

As for harassment of members? No one has really gone after them. I see no names mentioned other than those here and the forum Boogeyman. If the members have been harassed however then I'll gladly denounce that behaviour.


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## Lucyfur (May 31, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> Outlander can you please just move on? Apparently you haven't even used this discord; you're just white-knighting for a random user who was banned from it, even though you know this is spoiling other people's enjoyment. ._.
> 
> Ultimately Zerzehn has the right to have a discord server how he likes it. If you don't like his server, you can make your own- and if you do I will respect your space by avoiding cluttering it up with comments about how rotten I think you are.



Don’t you think you’re just white knighting a random discord server and person as well?

do you not see that the tactic employed to silence others for saying something relatively like someone else may in fact ruin their enjoyment? Does their enjoyment not matter?

yes Zerzehn has the right to do whatever they want with their server just as people have the right to point out issues be it part of the users, how things are done, etc.


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## Fallowfox (May 31, 2020)

LucyTheDumbYeen said:


> Don’t you think you’re just white knighting a random discord server and person as well?
> 
> do you not see that the tactic employed to silence others for saying something relatively like someone else may in fact ruin their enjoyment? Does their enjoyment not matter?
> 
> yes Zerzehn has the right to do whatever they want with their server just as people have the right to point out issues be it part of the users, how things are done, etc.




You guys are arguing that you dislike this discord. It's like going to a house party, being asked to leave, and then standing in the front lawn outside of the house moaning about how you didn't like the party anyway and _totally _don't want to go back in.

One dumby even said that Contemplationistwolf's 'rights' had been violated...his...'right' to use a private discord server?

If you don't like somebody's house party, move on. Hold your own one. But stop pissing on their welcome mat. It's immature entitled behaviour.


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## Lucyfur (May 31, 2020)

Fallowfox said:


> You guys are arguing that you dislike this discord. It's like going to a house party, being asked to leave, and then standing in the front lawn outside of the house moaning about how you didn't like the party anyway and _totally _don't want to go back in.
> 
> One dumby even said that Contemplationistwolf's 'rights' had been violated...his...'right' to use a private discord server?
> 
> If you don't like somebody's house party, move on. Hold your own one. But stop pissing on their welcome mat. It's immature entitled behaviour.



funny I can think of a slight parallel here.

you know Gab right?
Yeah I dun like it it’s a hive of bigotry in many different branches.

they’re a platform their own server like a discord so as to have their own party away from the rules of twitter.

but see people myself included made sure that others where aware of the company they kept there as a buyer beware ya dig?

so tell me would you or did you do the same about other places like gab?

again people can shed light on issues. It’s like warning people about how if you don’t agree with the VIP residents at the party they’ll brand you an alt yakamaru super Nazi alt right yokai and kick you out.
It’s not just pissing on A doormat


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## Miles Marsalis (May 31, 2020)

I'll be taking over the intake part of this thread for time being. 

Despite the manufactured drama currently happening on this thread, we've had a few members join since yesterday and so far have had no complaints from them. I'd encourage prospective users to join and see for themselves the kind of community and camaraderie the server fosters through the discussions regularly held there. If your looking for an active Discord server where you can socialize and share, this is the space for you. 

Have a nice day.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 1, 2020)

The server is taking taking in new members, so I'm just ringing the bell here. Hopefully we'll see you there.

Happy Pride Month.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 2, 2020)

Bump.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Hopefully everyone's day is decent so far.

There was a new admission yesterday, but the server is still taking new members. Feel free to pose any questions you have about the server here and join if you want try things out. 

We look forward to meeting you.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

To head off confusion, yeah, we're Philosofur's Den now.

New name, same service.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> To head off confusion, yeah, we're Philosofur's Den now.
> 
> New name, same service.


Ha. Freethinking furs wasn't cutting it I guess. Guess you're not false advertising now LOL


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## KD142000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Ha. Freethinking furs wasn't cutting it I guess. Guess you're not false advertising now LOL


With all due respect and I'm not denying you had a negative experience...it may be best to let sleeping dogs lie?

I'm not a member of this server and I won't be joining it. But I am just coming in to keep the peace.
I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience, though. It was out of order.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> With all due respect and I'm not denying you had a negative experience...it may be best to let sleeping dogs lie?
> 
> I'm not a member of this server and I won't be joining it. But I am just coming in to keep the peace.
> I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience, though. It was out of order.


Anyone who calls me a zoo will have the wrath of god brought upon them. Poking at the name change is probably the smallest thing I could do.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Ha. Freethinking furs wasn't cutting it I guess. Guess you're not false advertising now LOL


I mean, we have our differences, undoubtedly, but I feel fairly confident that you can see the wisdom in changing the name from an Alt-Right dogwhistle for tolerance of their bigoted and oppressive ideals.

There is that much common ground between us.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I mean, we have our differences, undoubtedly, but I feel fairly confident that you can see the wisdom in changing the name from an Alt-Right dogwhistle for tolerance of their bigoted and oppressive ideals.
> 
> There is that much common ground between us.


I'm sure there's much more to it than that. I remember quite clearly why I left.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Anyone who calls me a zoo will have the wrath of god brought upon them. Poking at the name change is probably the smallest thing I could do.


I didn't call you a zooaphile, though?


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I didn't call you a zooaphile, though?


Your glorious leaders did. And this is their thread.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> I'm sure there's much more to it than that. I remember quite clearly why I left.


I also don't know why you left, but do we need to argue this here and now?


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## redhusky (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Anyone who calls me a zoo will have the wrath of god brought upon them. Poking at the name change is probably the smallest thing I could do.


If it happened elsewhere you should probably just leave it there. I'm sure that cross thread fights would bring the wrath of mods brought down upon you.
My advice: See this line?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That one? No bad blood posts from here, yes?


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## KD142000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Anyone who calls me a zoo will have the wrath of god brought upon them. Poking at the name change is probably the smallest thing I could do.


And I don't deny that someone did that. That was uncalled for. You're well within your right to be angry about that.

But just trying to make sure no one's getting attacked or ganged up on, here.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I also don't know why you left, but do we need to argue this here and now?


Story time then. I was of the original 3 who started the server. I was called a zoo by the other 2 for having a four legged dragon character with a two legged mate. I was not going to be called a zoo so I left.


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## KD142000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Story time then. I was of the original 3 who started the server. I was called a zoo by the other 2 for having a four legged dragon character with a two legged mate. I was not going to be called a zoo so I left.


And this wasn't fair on you, naturally. Sorry, I'll keep out of it and let it run it's course.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Story time then. I was of the original 3 who started the server. I was called a zoo by the other 2 for having a four legged dragon character with a two legged mate. I was not going to be called a zoo so I left.


I'm told that the difference in opinions was over the server's ban of NSFW feral content?


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I'm told that the difference in opinions was over the server's ban of NSFW feral content?


They left out that crucial detail about calling me a zoo. But I doubt you won't listen to anyone but them.


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## Frank Gulotta (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I mean, we have our differences, undoubtedly, but I feel fairly confident that you can see the wisdom in changing the name from an Alt-Right dogwhistle for tolerance of their bigoted and oppressive ideals.
> 
> There is that much common ground between us.


You know how much the left has gone to shit if "free thinking" is an alt right dogwhistle


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> They left out that crucial detail about calling me a zoo. But I doubt you won't listen to anyone but them.


I've been listening to you and refrained from pinging the mods out of respect for you and the spirit of transparency while trying to juggle your privacy and others. Whatever this conflict you have is, at least you don't support Alt-Right philosophies or people. However, I will admit that I do agree with the feral NSFW content ban and probably am not fully-informed of your disagreement, so I may not be the best person to address this. 


Frank Gulotta said:


> You know how much the left has gone to shit if "free thinking" is an alt right dogwhistle


Respectfully, there are those of us on the right who recognize the dogwhistle as well.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I've been listening to you and refrained from pinging the mods out of respect for you and the spirit of transparency while trying to juggle your privacy and others. Whatever this conflict you have is, at least you don't support Alt-Right philosophies or people. However, I will admit that I do agree with the feral NSFW content ban and probably am not fully-informed of your disagreement, so I may not be the best person to address this.
> 
> Respectfully, there are those of us on the right who recognize the dogwhistle as well.


Ping the mods. They're garbage anyways. They'd rather deal with petty complaints between users rather than dealing with fascists and sexually explicit themes on a 13+ forum.


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## KD142000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Since this will most likely devolve into a problem...

I recommend the two people who banned Ovi make an apology and retract their accusations of zoophilia. This is at least fair, correct? Their behaviour, if I am reading it right, was uncalled for and unfair.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Ping the mods. They're garbage anyways. They'd rather deal with petty complaints between users rather than dealing with fascists and sexually explicit themes on a 13+ forum.


They aren't and they're regular people have lives while running a business who may overwhelmed, sometimes deliberately I feel, by problematic parties. That said, I feel that this doesn't rise to level of notifying them, especially since I haven't notified about the more serious harassment and circumvention violations here.


KD142000 said:


> ince this will most likely devolve into a problem...
> 
> I recommend the two people who banned Ovi make an apology and retract their accusations of zoophilia. This is at least fair, correct? Their behaviour, if I am reading it right, was uncalled for and unfair.


I don't know the exact nature of what went down and I feel I may even be biased here, so I'm not going to recommend that. 

What I will recommend is that whatever happened here get addressed privately between the involved parties and no one else. This thread is meant to focus on promoting and answering questions about the server community. Bad reviews are welcome, but repeated derailments are not.


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## KD142000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I don't know the exact nature of what went down and I feel I may even be biased here, so I'm not going to recommend that.
> 
> What I will recommend is that whatever happened here get addressed privately between the involved parties and no one else. This thread is meant to focus on promoting and answering questions about the server community. Bad reviews are welcome, but repeated derailments are not.


That's fair enough.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> That's fair enough.


I try to be. 

Anyway, after the latest stretch in this saga, we're still open. Feel free to join if you'd like.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

KD142000 said:


> Since this will most likely devolve into a problem...
> 
> I recommend the two people who banned Ovi make an apology and retract their accusations of zoophilia. This is at least fair, correct? Their behaviour, if I am reading it right, was uncalled for and unfair.


You know what if they do retract their accusations of zoophilia I'll stop in my tracks.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> You know what if they do retract their accusations of zoophilia I'll stop in my tracks.


Humor me for a moment, but did they publicly accuse you being a zooaphile here on the forum at all?


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## Stray Cat Terry (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> This is a thread about promoting the server and reviewing the server, not discussing the past drama with banned members.
> 
> --
> 
> This is a thread to promote a server where members are enjoying themselves and are largely accepting of all members.



Exactly.

Apart from all those drama specifics, what we need is promotion as the thread was meant to be. But the issue is... the fact that drama happened, and the drama itself has the essence that conflicts with the initial informations provided on promotion itself.

This has to be taken care of either by everyone in this 'party' to dismiss and do their respective stuffs, or make up a negotiation of some sort.

So far, the promotion itself is being interrupted, heavily.

If I was in a thread that's going the wrong direction unstoppably, viewing it as OP myself, I would have opened a whole new promotion thread with the latest introductions. Hopefully the same fire doesn't go up there. But if it does, well... then you can definitely blame those people who start the fire again, apart from the initial drama itself.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> Humor me for a moment, but did they publicly accuse you being a zooaphile here on the forum at all?


It was not public. But it sure pissed me off. And as one of the original 3 who started the server, I believe I at least deserve an apology.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> It was not public. But it sure pissed me off. And as one of the original 3 who started the server, I believe I at least deserve an apology.


So I just want to point out something here.

I don't know what was said between y'all and quite frankly it is barely my business at best, but assuming you are on the level and accused of being zooaphile due to the NSFW feral content ban, why would you publicly air those accusations out on a public forum?

I really want an answer and a resolution to this.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> So I just want to point out something here.
> 
> I don't know what was said between y'all and quite frankly it is barely my business at best, but assuming you are on the level and accused of being zooaphile due to the NSFW feral content ban, why would you publicly air those accusations out on a public forum?
> 
> I really want an answer and a resolution to this.


Because I was one of original 3 mods and want people to stay away from a place that's supposed to be "open"


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## Stray Cat Terry (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Because I was one of original 3 mods and want people to stay away from a place that's supposed to be "open"



I'm suddenly curious, if you're one of the mods then wouldn't you have opportunities to at least meditate to some degrees before just leaving? At least you should have gave them a chance to change, I suppose.

Or was it really that stuck...


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Because I was one of original 3 mods and want people to stay away from a place that's supposed to be "open"


Okay, but can you see where you have made this public when everyone would have never known these accusations before? And how every time you bring this up, you are constantly drawing attention to that?

Furthermore, most members in this server, including me, had nothing to do with your decision to leave the server. I hope that this is being taken into consideration.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Stray Cat Terry said:


> I'm suddenly curious, if you're one of the mods then wouldn't you have opportunities to at least meditate to some degrees before just leaving? At least you should have gave them a chance to change, I suppose.
> 
> Or was it really that stuck...


There was no budging.



Miles Marsalis said:


> Okay, but can you see where you have made this public when everyone would have never known these accusations before? And how every time you bring this up, you are constantly drawing attention to that?
> 
> Furthermore, most members in this server, including me, had nothing to do with your decision to leave the server. I hope that this is being taken into consideration.


I'm not worried about people knowing about the accusations because anyone with half a brain knows a dragon character + anthro fur does not mean zoophile.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> There was no budging.
> 
> 
> I'm not worried about people knowing about the accusations because anyone with half a brain knows a dragon character + anthro fur does not mean zoophile.


I'm really at a loss what to do here then. I'm guessing we'll just have to deal with you popping by here on a regular basis. At least, you're not Alt-Right, so there is that.

Have a good evening.


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## Deleted member 115426 (Jun 3, 2020)

Miles Marsalis said:


> I'm really at a loss what to do here then. I'm guessing we'll just have to deal with you popping by here on a regular basis. At least, you're not Alt-Right, so there is that.
> 
> Have a good evening.


Maybe if they'd give up their pride and apologize I'd stop.


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## SSJ3Mewtwo (Jun 3, 2020)

Ovi the Dragon said:


> Maybe if they'd give up their pride and apologize I'd stop.



That comes pretty borderline close to admitting you intend to harass other users.

I would advise you let this matter drop, rather than continue.  Repeatedly publicly prompting an issue doesn't really inspire the urge for either forgiveness or an apology.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 4, 2020)

We got a few members yesterday, but we're still open to more users joining. The link is in the OP. Feel free to join and try things out. 

Have the best day possible.


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## Dinocanid (Jun 4, 2020)

(Not to step on toes or anything but is a bump really necessary when your post is still on the first page of the subboard? It's not going anywhere in that short amount of time lol)


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 4, 2020)

Dinocanid said:


> (Not to step on toes or anything but is a bump really necessary when your post is still on the first page of the subboard? It's not going anywhere in that short amount of time lol)


I'm handling this thread for the time being for the server staff, so I just want to do my due diligence when I can.


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 5, 2020)

Just giving this the daily bump and letting y'all know the server is open.


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## Zerzehn (Jun 6, 2020)

Bump


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## Miles Marsalis (Jun 6, 2020)

Nice to see you back, chief.


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## Zerzehn (Jun 8, 2020)

Bump


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## Zerzehn (Jun 14, 2020)

Bump


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## Yoserfael1 (Jul 3, 2020)

I hope it isn't gone forever - I really enjoyed the place. It gave me a place to talk.
If it is, I'm gonna miss you and the whole gang. Thank you for the good times.


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## Fallowfox (Jul 17, 2020)

Is the server still present? I went to check it today and couldn't find it.


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## Yoserfael1 (Jul 17, 2020)

As far as I can tell, it's gone sadly. I'd say keep looking, but I think it's gone.


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