# To the computer junkies and coders



## Grimfang (Apr 29, 2008)

So I'm trying to keep working my crappy job while (planning on) self-teaching myself programming lanuages and honing my graphic design skills.

I know there are a bunch of compy junkies and coders who dwell among us here, so to you guys, whether you've been through school or are self-taught, I have questions and seek advice.

School is a possibility, and something I will continue to pursue, but with my financial options, that will be a crawling pace. I'd like to try and get ahead of that and aim for certifications, and see if I can get my foot in the door through an alternative route.

I'd like to get into web design, and I know where I can get at-home lessons and such, but I was wondering if you knew any good sources for this.

What advice or criticism do you have to offer? Any inside information that'll help me along the way?

I have a bit of experience with basic programming languages like Visual Basic, C, a bit of HTML.. and I have a lot to learn. So I am trying to get a sense of where to start and what I should strive for.



tl;dr version: Anyone who knows programming or has experience in web design, what would you recommend as far as languages to learn, and good sources for learning those?


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## net-cat (Apr 29, 2008)

HTML, JavaScript, CSS. Be able to make pages with static content in those. In a text editor. Yes, Frontpage and Dreamweaver are nice. But the minute you encounter a case they can't handle and you don't understand the underlying code, you're screwed.

As for pages with dynamic content, read up on HTTP. Understand the protocol. I swear to god that if I encounter one more web programmer who has no idea how HTTP actually works, some fuckers are going to die.

As for dynamically generated content, there are many languages. PHP is the most popular, but I wouldn't suggest starting with that. People who learn from the PHP docs tend to be horrible coders. You're far better off learning another language, like Perl or Python and applying what you learn there to PHP. If you're okay with vendor lock-in, there's also ASP.NET.

Hope that helps you get started.


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## Aurali (Apr 30, 2008)

start with HTML, and work your way into CSS and javascript... once you can make a pretty page no problem, I suggest learning either PHP/SQL or Perl or Python :3


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## yak (Apr 30, 2008)

What net-cat said, word for word.


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## Grimfang (Apr 30, 2008)

Awesome. I was half-expecting sarcasm and discouragement, haha

Very helpful. I know HTML would be best to start with, but I'm kind of clueless on what else I'd want to pick up. Looks like a lot to take in... it's a long road ahead, and I do hope to stay consistent with this.

I really do enjoy the creativity and problem-solving nature of the work, so it's something I think I definitely will pursue.

Thanks a bunch *hugs everyone*


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## yak (Apr 30, 2008)

Here is a more advanced level, supplementary reading.
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/ <--  HTML, CSS, Design, everything
http://ajaxian.com/                       <-- Javascript and dynamic goodies.

You may not find them useful at first, but later on those are two great resources to use and learn from.

As for starting out, do try to find a _recent_ HTML tutorial that doesn't teach you to use <font> and <b> tags and stuff like that, because you'll be writing junk markup thinking it's perfectly normal otherwise.


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## Grimfang (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, I have 2 new bookmarks, if not for now, then maybe late.

And I do have a lot of relearning, and then updating my HTML knowledge, haha.


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## codewolf (Apr 30, 2008)

i tend to use w3scools.com as a quick reference kinda thing, its easy to understand although its library of commands is quite limited sometimes


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## supercutefurri58 (Apr 30, 2008)

Eli said:


> I suggest learning either PHP/SQL or Perl or Python :3



python teh is for better lerning

don't start with perl or php, hax


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## Aurali (Apr 30, 2008)

I thought Perl was very easy to learn.. though I had a large programming history before I started trying to understand perl


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## supercutefurri58 (Apr 30, 2008)

Eli said:


> though I had a large programming history before I started trying to understand perl



YEAH, well...

perl was my first script langage. it was a really awful waste of time trying to figure out things like " push @{${$a->{"a"}}[${$_}]}, 'Hello World!' " and basic concepts at the same time. it's a huge kick in the nuts once you realize that all those "concepts" you spent so much time on are rly just syntax shortcts for text things you can do with clear libraries (or at least no $ @ \% _) in all the other langs.

but it haxxes good so is good lol


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## Eeve3 (May 5, 2008)

*nod* As far as webdesign goes, start by giving yourself a thorough grounding in HTML. And start in an editor (such as Notepad, though I personally use Notepad++ as it colours the syntax depending on what language you use :3) - I actually started off in Frontpage, but ended up having to learn basic HTML to fix the problems it created anyway. Â¬_Â¬ 
But yeah, start off with basic HTML, then move on up to CSS - someone's already recommended w3schools.com, there's also sites like daydreamgraphics.com and lissaexplains.com (though Lissa Explains is aimed at kids and is quite garish as far as colours go >_< ). I wouldn't advise moving on to JS, PHP etc. until you feel you've got a very good grounding in HTML. 
Also, if you're willing to invest, the Visual Quickstart Guides are quite good, as are For Dummies books - there's also a CSS Zen Garden book out on good CSS practices, if I'm not mistaken. 

Er, that went a bit tl;dr >_< Sorry. Hope I was of *some* help though, and didn't just repeat what everyone else said...


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## Grimfang (May 5, 2008)

I'll look into it. I already bought a book for HTML, XHTML, and CSS.

Although there may be plenty of online references, I feel like I can't learn something right without a hard copy that'll guide me.

Thanks again :]


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## skulltoe (May 8, 2008)

I self-taught myself HTML and Javascript when I was 6. They're not all that difficult. I'm trying C++ now, it's a bit harder. But as for web design, I'd recommend:

-HTML
-CSS
-Java & Javascript
-Get Flash and learn Actionscript
-PHP (for interactive elements)

That should get you rolling. I personally hate Dreamweaver because it's outdated and disgusting, and Frontpage is crap. I use notepad++. Awesome editor for many languages.


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## Aurali (May 8, 2008)

I suggest not getting flash right away... you'll be tempted in making the entire site in it.. and that's not a good thing >.>


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## skulltoe (May 8, 2008)

I actually have seen some really nice sites made entirely in Flash. Look at beatport.com.


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## Aurali (May 8, 2008)

bleh.. Flash is alright... not very friendly for text crawling things though..

Best to learn PHP first. and use Flash sparsely.. if at all :3


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