# Help fight internet censorship and SOPA!



## Mircea (Dec 3, 2011)

Every few years, the internet has to deal with a greedy politician or corporation trying to censor it, in the hope of obtaining more money. Now it's that time again. Some guys are begging for the internet to be policed, with a new bill called SOPA. Many users are worried because several countries are showing signs of accepting it. I doubt it will pass, but it's never the less important for everyone who is against this to oppose that movement. It's a very dangerous initiative, that can even allow bringing websites down for very interpretable reasons!

Mozilla has a site specifically for this, where you can sign a petition. http://www.mozilla.org/sopa/ Apparently, that's an US only page, and will only work with American ZIP codes. If someone outside of America still wishes to sign it though, you can use a fake ZIP. I found several on this web page. More info can be found on google... just look up SOPA.

I know this sort of thing gets old and annoying, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. If you don't agree with the internet being censored, please sign that and any anti-SOPA petitions on the internet, and tell everyone who might be interested about this (or spread the news around in other places however you can). Thank you.


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## Onnes (Dec 3, 2011)

Mircea said:


> Mozilla has a site specifically for this, where you can sign a petition. http://www.mozilla.org/sopa/ Apparently, that's an US only page, and will only work with American ZIP codes. If someone outside of America still wishes to sign it though, you can use a fake ZIP. I found several on this web page. More info can be found on google... just look up SOPA.



What's more worthless than an internet petition? An internet petition filled with fake people, apparently.


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## Aetius (Dec 3, 2011)

First of all online petitions don't mean anything.

Second of all President Obama already stated that he would veto this bill.
If you would have some knowledge of the American system of government, you would know that Veto's are near impossible to override.


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## GingerM (Dec 3, 2011)

I would like to point out that SOPA would not apply to other countries. They might or might not enact their own equivalent legislation, but SOPA would affect the United States only. To the best of my knowledge, no other countries are contemplating something similar, but if anyone knows of such, I'd be interested to hear about it.


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## Aidy (Dec 3, 2011)

If it affected the US, it'd affect US companies too though, right?

Google own Youtube, that straight away is a massive hit because that means they'll have to enforce the new US law on all their sites.


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## Aetius (Dec 3, 2011)

GingerM said:


> I would like to point out that SOPA would not apply to other countries. They might or might not enact their own equivalent legislation, but SOPA would affect the United States only. To the best of my knowledge, no other countries are contemplating something similar, but if anyone knows of such, I'd be interested to hear about it.



America=The world :V


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## greg-the-fox (Dec 3, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> First of all online petitions don't mean anything.
> 
> Second of all President Obama already stated that he would veto this bill.
> If you would have some knowledge of the American system of government, you would know that Veto's are near impossible to override.



HAHAHAHAHA
Wait you're serious?
You really still trust Obama's word at this point?


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## CannonFodder (Dec 3, 2011)

greg-the-fox said:


> HAHAHAHAHA
> Wait you're serious?
> You really still trust Obama's word at this point?


I trust him more than congress.


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## Antonin Scalia (Dec 3, 2011)

Corporations *are* people.


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## Aetius (Dec 3, 2011)

greg-the-fox said:


> HAHAHAHAHA
> Wait you're serious?
> You really still trust Obama's word at this point?



Usually when a President threatens a Veto its Srs Business.


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## dinosaurdammit (Dec 3, 2011)

I saw this thread and INSTA knew it was on of those pointless online surveys.


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## Littlerock (Dec 3, 2011)

Antonin Scalia said:


> Corporations *are* people.



As are cannibals, necrophiliacs, and convicted murderers. 
I think I trust these folks more than congress too. :v


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## Antonin Scalia (Dec 3, 2011)

barefootfoof said:


> As are cannibals, necrophiliacs, and convicted murderers.
> I think I trust these folks more than congress too. :v



Felons *are not *people.  Duh.


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## HeroHoxha (Dec 4, 2011)

It won't happen, unless the government thinks they can put down widespread protests and riots in every single town and city across the whole fucking country.


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## Telnac (Dec 4, 2011)

HeroHoxha said:


> It won't happen, unless the government thinks they can put down widespread protests and riots in every single town and city across the whole fucking country.


People said that about the Communications Decency Act.  It couldn't pass on its own, and Clinton threatened to veto it.  But it got rolled into the Telecommunications Act in 1996, which passed and was signed by Clinton.

The public?  *yawn*  "Ya mean there's p0rn on the Internets now?  My 13 year old cousin Suzie might see it? Well, damn.  Guess them's government's protecting us by gettin' rid of it.  Now where is Suzie, anyway?  I's need my needs met."

Thankfully, that was struck down by the courts, or FA (or any site remotely like it) might have never existed.

Crap like this pops up every few years.  It usually passes, especially if it's an election year.  If the Prez won't sign it as-is, it'll get rolled into something he will sign, and then it'll be killed dead by the courts.  Rinse & repeat.

[Edit]Yes, I'm an old fart for remembering the fight over the CDA. I was pissed about it b/c an idiot IT guy at my college told me I needed to take down my MUD when the law passed, because teens might lie about their age & be exposed to... *gasp* text-based net.sex!


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## greg-the-fox (Dec 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> I trust him more than congress.



still, not saying much :V
i don't trust ANYONE in Washington anymore


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## CannonFodder (Dec 4, 2011)

Telnac said:


> People said that about the Communications Decency Act.  It couldn't pass on its own, and Clinton threatened to veto it.  But it got rolled into the Telecommunications Act in 1996, which passed and was signed by Clinton.
> 
> The public?  *yawn*  "Ya mean there's p0rn on the Internets now?  My 13 year old cousin Suzie might see it? Well, damn.  Guess them's government's protecting us by gettin' rid of it.  Now where is Suzie, anyway?  I's need my needs met."
> 
> ...


...If the CDA was passed then furry porn would have not been allowed on the internet?
...Quick someone get me 1.21 gigawatts, flux capacitor and a sweet-ass car.


greg-the-fox said:


> still, not saying much :V
> i don't trust ANYONE in Washington anymore


I know it's not saying much, but when it comes to politics I'd rather trust Obama than congress.


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## HeroHoxha (Dec 4, 2011)

Telnac said:


> People said that about the Communications Decency Act. It couldn't pass on its own, and Clinton threatened to veto it. But it got rolled into the Telecommunications Act in 1996, which passed and was signed by Clinton.



This isn't a 1996 law threatening to be passed. We're talking about a an obvious censorship act and in 2011...a lot of fucking people use the internet. It won't pass. It will fail.

At the same time, the American public is braindead, so that needs to be factored into the equation. Still, if every conscious human displays public opposition to this bill, then that creates more problems for the powers that be, meaning, like I said, nation-wide rioting, which gives the government even more of a reason to crack down on nation-wide dissent, while at the same time fueling said dissent.

The capitalist state is not going to allow a movement that could possibly raise class-counsciousness to go unnoticed for too long, and if they respond with widespread, open repression, shit will hit the fan. Bottom line, people will not put up with a censored interenet. From a Marxist perspective, this is the capitalist establishment attempting to limit information to the working public. To the tea party respective, it's a Kenyan illegal immigrant hating on America. Bottom line. It won't succeed in the long run.


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## Kaizy (Dec 4, 2011)

If this is going to Congress we have nothing to worry about

Theyre much too busy on more important topics, like defending pizza as a vegetable


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## Elim Garak (Dec 4, 2011)

The problem is that the US government has been seizing domain names and such already.
There's more on the horizon.
The thing is, the US is basically the center of the internet infrastructure and this will affect other countries if they tell most of the root DNS servers to block certain websites or other things.


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## Wreth (Dec 4, 2011)

Funny people saying internet petitions don't do anything, when they most certainly have in the past, even caused nations to change their mind on putting forward laws.


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## GingerM (Dec 4, 2011)

greg-the-fox said:


> still, not saying much :V
> i don't trust ANYONE in Washington anymore



Same here, and I don't much trust the characters in Ottawa, either.



Caroline Dax said:


> The problem is that the US government has been seizing domain names and such already.
> There's more on the horizon.
> The thing is, the US is basically the center of the internet infrastructure and this will affect other countries if they tell most of the root DNS servers to block certain websites or other things.



Mmm... yes and no, I think. I could very easily see Google, for example, moving its legal "place of business" to somewhere outside the US, mirroring its servers likewise and carrying on as before. There are plenty of other countries with the technical capability to step in and fill the gaps this legislation would cause; in fact, it would create an enormous economic opportunity in those countries. Yes, the US and its citizens wouldn't necessarily benefit, but let's not forget the Internet grew out of ARPANet, which was specifically designed to be able to route information around damage (in the 60s, theorized as being the result of nuclear warfare). To the software structure of the net, censorship would be interpreted as damage. Can't pass those packets through the routers and switches in New York? Route them through Mazatlan instead. There would be a period of limited bandwidth but as new servers came online in other countries, Internet communication outside the US would pick up and recover; there's too much economic incentive for it not to.


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## CannonFodder (Dec 4, 2011)

GingerM said:


> Same here, and I don't much trust the characters in Ottawa, either.


Congress is aware of how unpopular they are and are either scoffing it off/poking fun/ignoring it/saying that it's the opposing party's fault.

The funny thing is that congress approval rating is below the percentage of americans that-
1)support gay rights
2)support the bailouts
3)supported the health care bill
4)approved of bush
5)supports the usa going communist
6)supports polygamy
7)supports incest

At this rate america is going to go-
americans, "gtfo"
congress, "haha funny"
americans, "no seriously gtfo!"
congress, "Didn't you hear them <opposite party> they want you to leave"
americans, "no all of you get out!"
congress, "Treason!"


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## Namba (Dec 4, 2011)

Really? An Internet petition? No one's gonna see that shit.


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## PapayaShark (Dec 4, 2011)

If they do censor the internet, I hope they remove all of the nasty furry porn. :V


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## CannonFodder (Dec 4, 2011)

PapayaShark said:


> If they do censor the internet, I hope they remove all of the nasty furry porn. :V


Could you imagine what would happen if furry porn was banned?!


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## Aidy (Dec 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if furry porn was banned?!




it'd be like when cub porn got banned but worse


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## Namba (Dec 4, 2011)

Double post.


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## Namba (Dec 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if furry porn was banned?!



Impending shitstorm about "fursecution."
Lives would be ruined :v


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## CannonFodder (Dec 4, 2011)

Luti Kriss said:


> Impending shitstorm about "fursecution."
> Lives would be ruined :v





Aidy70060 said:


> it'd be like when cub porn got banned but worse


And this would be me-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0


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## Aetius (Dec 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if furry porn was banned?!



I can already see the future if such a thing happened...


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## gokorahn (Dec 4, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> I can already see the future if such a thing happened...


My only question is, how would get all these nukes, cause I don't think there are many, if any, furries that would be able to obtain them.


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## Aetius (Dec 4, 2011)

gokorahn said:


> My only question is, how would get all these nukes, cause I don't think there are many, if any, furries that would be able to obtain them.



When you have hundreds of thousands of furries bawwing nonstop, this is the only way to put them down...


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## gokorahn (Dec 4, 2011)

Crusader Mike said:


> When you have hundreds of thousands of furries bawwing nonstop, this is the only way to put them down...


Oh, so the furries are getting nuked. That makes much more sense, I thought they were nuking everyone else.


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## Telnac (Dec 4, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> ...If the CDA was passed then furry porn would have not been allowed on the internet?
> ...Quick someone get me 1.21 gigawatts, flux capacitor and a sweet-ass car.


Well, it did pass, but it was struck down by the courts before it could take effect.  The reason it was struck down by the court was because there was no way to properly satisfy the bill's requirement that a website verifies someone's age before giving them access to p0rn (not to mention the fact that what was "indecent" was poorly defined, which is why the idiot IT person at my college freaked out and told me to pull the plug on my MUD.)



HeroHoxha said:


> This isn't a 1996 law threatening to be passed. We're talking about a an obvious censorship act and in 2011...a lot of fucking people use the internet. It won't pass. It will fail.
> 
> At the same time, the American public is braindead, so that needs to be factored into the equation.


The reason I brought up the CDA is because it passed, even though people were saying that it didn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell.  Why did it pass?  Well, maybe because the American public is brain dead!  That's not a factor in the equation, that *IS* the equation!  The only difference between the CDA in 1996 and the SOPA in 2011 is that one was supposedly about stopping p0rn and the other's supposedly about stopping online piracy.  Both amount to Internet censorship.

Well, there is one more difference: Obama is a lot more serious about veto threats than Clinton even was, but if what happened in '96 happens today (likely), then the bill will get wrapped into something that Obama can't say no to.



HeroHoxha said:


> Still, if every conscious human displays public opposition to this bill, then that creates more problems for the powers that be, meaning, like I said, nation-wide rioting, which gives the government even more of a reason to crack down on nation-wide dissent, while at the same time fueling said dissent.
> 
> The capitalist state is not going to allow a movement that could possibly raise class-counsciousness to go unnoticed for too long, and if they respond with widespread, open repression, shit will hit the fan. Bottom line, people will not put up with a censored interenet. From a Marxist perspective, this is the capitalist establishment attempting to limit information to the working public. To the tea party respective, it's a Kenyan illegal immigrant hating on America. Bottom line. It won't succeed in the long run.


I agree with you that it won't succeed in the long run, but not for the reasons you state.  There are a *lot* of good reasons to oppose this bill, and I believe the informed public largely do oppose it.  Unfortunately, most of the American public is uninformed don't really don't care about getting informed.  As a result, I just don't see widespread rioting in the streets.  The uninformed public will say "oh, an anti-piracy bill.  Meh.  I don't pirate movies/games/music, so who cares?"  The informed public will freak, but there aren't enough of us to go do a million-man march on Washington D.C., which is the only way the uninformed public will realize that something's wrong.  Online petitions are worthless.

What will happen is what happened with the CDA: someone sues to block implementation of the law.  Courts review the law a few years later & throw the whole thing out.


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## Dreaming (Dec 4, 2011)

Luti Kriss said:


> Really? An Internet petition? No one's gonna see that shit.


They'll probably censor and remove it. :v


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## Namba (Dec 5, 2011)

You know what? I think I'll send them a gift.


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## VGmaster9 (Dec 17, 2011)

I think you people better watch this shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhwuXNv8fJM&feature=g-logo&context=G24b2b24FOAAAAAAAAAA

...and to all the people who think Obama will veto the bill, he said the same thing about NDAA and look what happened. Even if he does veto, it will get overrided.


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## Telnac (Dec 18, 2011)

VGmaster9 said:


> I think you people better watch this shit.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhwuXNv8fJM&feature=g-logo&context=G24b2b24FOAAAAAAAAAA
> 
> ...and to all the people who think Obama will veto the bill, he said the same thing about NDAA and look what happened. Even if he does veto, it will get overrided.


Wow, great video!  Interesting that Activision and EA support this bill, but that shouldn't surprise me.  Anything that strangles the indie game development scene (which is the only sector of the game industry that's growing of late) is just more money in their pockets.


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## Kinuki (Dec 18, 2011)

Hey, do you think SOPA was made to crack down on piracy?

Yes, you do?

Well, then _*think again*_.


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## VGmaster9 (Dec 18, 2011)

Telnac said:


> Wow, great video! Interesting that Activision and EA support this bill, but that shouldn't surprise me. Anything that strangles the indie game development scene (which is the only sector of the game industry that's growing of late) is just more money in their pockets.



Activision doesn't actually support it. The guy said in the description that it was a mistake.


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## Teal (Dec 18, 2011)

A friend from deviantART found this petition http://wh.gov/DfY, they seemed to think they might actually care about this one.
What do you think?


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## Mircea (Dec 18, 2011)

TealMoon said:


> A friend from deviantART found this petition http://wh.gov/DfY, they seemed to think they might actually care about this one.
> What do you think?



Very useful link. Thanks for posting... I'll help spread it. Pretty sure they'll get those signatures soon


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## Teal (Dec 18, 2011)

Mircea said:


> Very useful link. Thanks for posting... I'll help spread it. Pretty sure they'll get those signatures soon



Thanks, being a .gov site we thought it would do much better than other petitions. Though I posted a different one that's got over a million sigs somewhere.


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## Mircea (Dec 23, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc


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## Kellie Gator (Dec 23, 2011)

Kinuki said:


> Hey, do you think SOPA was made to crack down on piracy?
> 
> Yes, you do?
> 
> Well, then _*think again*_.


Fuck, this made me angry. Why haven't you guys resorted to anarchism yet?


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## CannonFodder (Dec 23, 2011)

^Cause the rich step on any dissent and snap it's neck every time it rears it's head and the only dissent allowed is what they control.


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## Kellie Gator (Dec 23, 2011)

CannonFodder said:


> ^Cause the rich step on any dissent and snap it's neck every time it rears it's head.


Dude, we're talking about the country where any dumb fuck can buy a gun and shoot things. DO IT NOW.


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## CannonFodder (Dec 23, 2011)

^To put it simply extreme media censorship and if there was a revolution the media would blame al-qaeda; not to mention if their answer to plutocracy is more plutocracy and it's a vicious cycle.


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## GingerM (Dec 23, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc&feature=g-all-f&context=G243f9e5FAAAAAAAAAAA

Another video on SOPA, looking at some of the ramifications of it. Including the fact that sites like CNet.com, Download.com, etc. are owned by - surprise, surprise! CBS and Viacom, some of the biggest supporters of SOPA! So, in effect, they're supporting anti-piracy legislation while providing and promoting piracy tools. Can you say 'entrapment'? Somehow, though, I doubt that will prevent you being charged...


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## Neuron (Dec 23, 2011)

The internet is the wild, wild west.

But all things must come to an end. I will miss you, streaming for free. :c


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## CrazyLee (Dec 23, 2011)

Why is there multiple threads for this topic?


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## Mircea (Dec 28, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPhTz6g_4RE

Worth seeing and spreading.


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## Teal (Dec 28, 2011)

http://megaupload.com/?c=pressrelease
Something interesting.


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## GingerM (Dec 28, 2011)

_Very _interesting! Thank you for the link!


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## CannonFodder (Dec 28, 2011)

Mircea said:


> [YT]GPhTz6g_4RE[/YT]
> 
> Worth seeing and spreading.


Is it just me or does dan bull always make awesome stuff?

If sopa passes anonymous needs to bash in the congressmen who voted yes' websites and permanently take them down.  Hell any congressman that supports it needs to be taught a lesson even before the vote and regardless if it's passed to teach congress a lesson.


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## Mircea (Dec 28, 2011)

After seeing this video, I suddenly realized I might have been very blind. Guys... are you sure they're doing this because some movie companies feel like they're losing a few millions from the billions they make every year? Because I'm willing to bet they're doing it to implement something like the Great Firewall of China... and for the same purposes too.

China does it so people won't badmouth their government and turn their citizens against them, and because some leaders are fanatics who believe watching porn is evil and must be censored. The US is a big and important country, and has a government willing to take some very dark decisions at times. They control most of the media, so the internet is the only way people find out about any junk they do. This probably disturbs them a lot. Would they really want millions of people talking to each other openly and knowing everything, without some law they can abuse to censor what crosses the line?

Sorry for unleashing more conspiracy theories everyone. But if this is true, it's the first move in switching to a totalitarian government. And the only thing that can stop it is people reacting and NOT letting it happen! They might want to shut people up so they can do what any evil leadership does, without people being able to inform each other about it and to keep them in the dark! This is something worth considering and informing people about... because America CANNOT be allowed to become the new world's dictatorship like this!


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## Commiecomrade (Dec 29, 2011)

When I first read the previous post, I immediately dismissed it. Then I remembered learning about the Sedition Act...


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## Mircea (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah... I've been thinking more about the government theory, as scary as it's getting for me. It could be mutual at "best"... such as Hollywood working with the government here, so one gets their anti-piracy law and the other their Great Firewall of China, Hollywood playing the pretext part. But I'm convinced it's all about government censorship, which can be sensed if one looks deeper into everything that's happening.

Think of the search engine blacklists for example, proposed by SOPA. Would any country adopt such a horrid measure only to fight piracy? That's hilarious. Or would have SOPA gotten this far only with Hollywood's support, regardless of how rich they are? SOPA is too extreme, too desperate, and too sudden. No company has done this in decades, and none could afford it without getting a green light! It could only be done with higher support which goes beyond a bribe, and if it reaches interests of a higher level. Not to mention SOPA resembles the tools China uses on their internet... how could it be just for piracy and a coincidence? Not to mention the media silence and more. It all makes sense to me now... and if people don't stop this, America and the world are screwed beyond reasoning.

And yes, the government can already spy on websites and know what everyone does online. But they don't have any way to censor uneasy websites without admitting totalitarianism. This would give them the perfect means to close any site spreading political messages they don't like, or posting information they want hidden. The real war is not on piracy here... it is on free information, and directed against sites like Wikileaks and news bulletins. America is becoming the second China unless we stop it, and the first step in stopping it is for everyone to know this and see beyond the "Hollywood show" they're using as a smoke screen.


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## Gryphoneer (Dec 29, 2011)

Mircea said:


> After seeing this video, I suddenly realized I might have been very blind. Guys... are you sure they're doing this because some movie companies feel like they're losing a few millions from the billions they make every year? Because I'm willing to bet they're doing it to implement something like the Great Firewall of China... and for the same purposes too.
> 
> China does it so people won't badmouth their government and turn their citizens against them, and because some leaders are fanatics who believe watching porn is evil and must be censored. The US is a big and important country, and has a government willing to take some very dark decisions at times. They control most of the media, so the internet is the only way people find out about any junk they do. This probably disturbs them a lot. Would they really want millions of people talking to each other openly and knowing everything, without some law they can abuse to censor what crosses the line?
> 
> Sorry for unleashing more conspiracy theories everyone. But if this is true, it's the first move in switching to a totalitarian government. And the only thing that can stop it is people reacting and NOT letting it happen! They might want to shut people up so they can do what any evil leadership does, without people being able to inform each other about it and to keep them in the dark! This is something worth considering and informing people about... because America CANNOT be allowed to become the new world's dictatorship like this!


Do you want to suggest that the US government and private sector may not have the best interests of everybody at heart? That's crazy wingnut talk.

The politicians just wish to protect the jobs of hard-working multi-billionaires against evil liberal commie pirates, whether or not they have jurisdiction over the latter. 

I believe in the marketplace of ideas that makes everybody act in the best way for everybody else without any enforcement or regulation whatsoever, so you shouldn't worry so much about their decisions. Surely everything will work out just fine.


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## Mircea (Dec 29, 2011)

TealMoon said:


> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...ering-nuclear-option-to-stop-SOPA?via=siderec



Finally... a good and appropriate reaction being planned! People have been silent for way too long about this. If Google and other giants do this, it will be of a huge help and send out a very great signal. I sure hope it will happen if it will be needed.


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## CannonFodder (Dec 29, 2011)

TealMoon said:


> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...ering-nuclear-option-to-stop-SOPA?via=siderec


When in doubt nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.


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## Mircea (Jan 6, 2012)

*News:* I received an email from a newsletter I'm subscribed to. A new voting date has been established for the senate version of SOPA, and it will be on January 24 (in 18 days from now). We need to convince more senators to destroy this bill, and show them the true consequences it would have. Currently there are only 2 out of 41 needed! The best way at this point seems to be an in-person meeting with our senators (if possible with friends joining up), and spreading the news so others can do it too. Here is the link. If you live in the US, please consider doing this... it's a chance to destroy the bill permanently!


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## Wreth (Jan 6, 2012)

Internet petitions actually have prevented laws from being passed in countries before. Though everyone seems to think they are worthless.


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## Mircea (Jan 6, 2012)

Wreth said:


> Internet petitions actually have prevented laws from being passed in countries before. Though everyone seems to think they are worthless.



Agreed. They are not worthless IMO. Real life petitions have more impact, but online ones do too.


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## lupinealchemist (Jan 6, 2012)

Mircea said:


> Agreed. They are not worthless IMO. Real life petitions have more impact, but online ones do too.


I signed a petition regarding this once, My email address is still suffering from the spam fallout. :/


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## veeno (Jan 6, 2012)

They may take my life but they will never take my internet.


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## shteev (Jan 6, 2012)




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## Kaamos (Jan 6, 2012)

ROW ROW FIGHT THA POWAH

I sent my email to Trent Franks, I can't wait for my automated response.


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## Commiecomrade (Jan 6, 2012)

This is the kind of stuff Anonymous used to be famous for fighting against. Where the hell are the legions of Guy Fawkes masks in front of the White House?


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## Damagefox (Jan 6, 2012)

I can already see it now, If Google and the others take the nuclear option and decide to shut down the various websites. I bet it would definately get a few stuffed shirts to pull thier head out of thier ass when some of thier precious money gets flushed. Maybe as soon as the money stops rolling in and they start losing business they will actually think!


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## Randy-Darkshade (Jan 6, 2012)

Crusader Mike said:


> First of all online petitions don't mean anything.
> 
> Second of all President Obama already stated that he would veto this bill.
> If you would have some knowledge of the American system of government, you would know that Veto's are near impossible to override.



Veto? Does that mean he's against it?

Not familiar with such term so pardon me if I seem a bit thick here.


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## TechnoGypsy (Jan 6, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Veto? Does that mean he's against it?
> 
> Not familiar with such term so pardon me if I seem a bit thick here.


Yes, that means he's against it.
All he needs to do is say "I don't like this Act" and poof goes SOPA.

Unless there's a two-thirds majority opposition vote by congress after his decision, then the bill won't even need to signature of the President to pass.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 6, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Veto? Does that mean he's against it?
> 
> Not familiar with such term so pardon me if I seem a bit thick here.


A presidential veto is the equivalent of a political bitchslap.

I don't believe obama is going to veto it, after signing the ndaa bill I don't believe a word he says.


----------



## Aetius (Jan 6, 2012)

Randy-Darkshade said:


> Veto? Does that mean he's against it?
> 
> Not familiar with such term so pardon me if I seem a bit thick here.



Yeah, a Veto is the Presidents way of killing a bill, and the only way to get around it would be to override it with a 2/3rd Majority in Congress.
So yeah, if a President usually threatens to veto a bill, it means they are against it x3 

Although I am not sure if Obama will veto the bill after all.


----------



## Damagefox (Jan 6, 2012)

Crusader Mike said:


> Yeah, a Veto is the Presidents way of killing a bill, and the only way to get around it would be to override it with a 2/3rd Majority in Congress.
> So yeah, if a President usually threatens to veto a bill, it means they are against it x3
> 
> Although I am not sure if Obama will veto the bill after all.



To Me, -Threatening- to veto the bill = Obama's way of saying "You want this passed?, GEMME MOAR MONEH!!!. I dont care what they say, I dont trust -any- politician. 
Of course I am up here in canada and we have our own braindead tool in charge *coughcoughStephenHarpercoughcough*
I watch the US though Because we already know Harper wants to turn Canada into a clone of the USA, Complete with our own "Fox News North!" *Facepalm*
If he actually DOES Veto the bill, I will be suprised. Right now its just a message he wants more "Campaign Contributions"


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 16, 2012)

News!

https://www.examiner.com/computers-in-denver/house-kills-sopa

http://boingboing.net/2012/01/16/sopa-is-dead-its-evil-senate.html

http://www.dailytech.com/Ding+Dong+SOPA+is+Dead/article23791c.htm

The Stop Online Piracy Act, SOPA, H.R.3261, has been shelved in a surprise move today.  The bill's as good as dead!

*However!*

SOPA's Senate cousin, PIPA, S.968, is still very much alive and well, it's still as evil as SOPA's original form was, and it's set to pass unless a whole bunch of senators can be found to vote against it.

One of the Internet's two current enemies has been defeated, but the focus needs to be shifted to defeating the other.


----------



## Maisuki (Jan 16, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> News!
> 
> https://www.examiner.com/computers-in-denver/house-kills-sopa
> 
> ...



Best news I've heard all year.


----------



## Mircea (Jan 16, 2012)

I've waited for this moment for weeks, this is stunning news! I'm glad the worst evil has been finally defeated! This is just amazing 

Now we all need to focus on PIPA, the second enemy. Once that is defeated too, we will all be ok. I hope things go the same way here.


----------



## Aetius (Jan 16, 2012)

TIME TO PARTY! WEE!


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 16, 2012)

Who knew raising awareness could be actually helpful in such cases?


----------



## Recel (Jan 16, 2012)

Crusader Mike said:


> TIME TO PARTY! WEE!



Not yet. There's still PIPA, remember? The one that is just as bad with nicer wording?


----------



## Teal (Jan 16, 2012)

Crusader Mike said:


> TIME TO PARTY! WEE!



We can party when PIPA is dead.


----------



## Aetius (Jan 16, 2012)

Recel said:


> Not yet. There's still PIPA, remember? The one that is just as bad with nicer wording?


>:C Those bastards

We need a pre-victory party :V


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 16, 2012)

But just in case we should start to build a second internet or so.


----------



## Sharpguard (Jan 16, 2012)

If Obama uses the pocket veto, then the bill will be killed completely and utterly.


----------



## Commiecomrade (Jan 16, 2012)

Is it weird that I wanted to "join" Anonymous during this whole thing?


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 16, 2012)

...ain't that the guys that were ridiculed by you guys just a few months ago?


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 16, 2012)

PIPA has a lot more cosponsors than SOPA does.  It's not just those who said they might support it, but those who went on the congressional record to note their support of it.  They all need serious persuasion in the face of Hollywood's millions of dollars in lobbying.

This is a very hard fight ahead of us.  However, we have Anonymous on our side and set to protest Congress tomorrow (2012-01-17) right at Capitol Hill, and lots of huge Web sites are still going ahead with a blackout on Wednesday (2012-01-18 ) in protest.  Our most powerful ammunition is the sheer number of protesters.  This fight will not soon be forgotten, and it's so fitting that it comes on the heels of remembrance for another freedom fighter whose only weapon was his and his followers' voices.

Your voice is just one voice, but it makes the chorus sing more loudly and clearly.

Both of my senators are cosponsors, and one of them is flat-out refusing to meet with constituents before the scheduled vote.


----------



## FlynnCoyote (Jan 16, 2012)

Commiecomrade said:


> Is it weird that I wanted to "join" Anonymous during this whole thing?



Anonymous are pathetic.


----------



## Commiecomrade (Jan 16, 2012)

Serpion5 said:


> Anonymous are pathetic.


That's why I thought it was a little weird.


----------



## DJ-Fragon (Jan 17, 2012)

Now with SOPA out of the way, it's time to focus our attention on PIPA. Wikipedia is planning a blackout (English only) in less than 25 hours from now protesting both bills (now just PIPA).

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9223476/Wikipedia_to_go_dark_in_SOPA_protest_Twitter_declines


----------



## Rex Aeterna (Jan 17, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Could you imagine what would happen if furry porn was banned?!



i know, right. some of that stuff is actually pretty hot i have to admit.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 17, 2012)

DJ-Fragon said:


> Now with SOPA out of the way, it's time to focus our attention on PIPA. Wikipedia is planning a blackout (English only) in less than 25 hours from now protesting both bills (now just PIPA).
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9223476/Wikipedia_to_go_dark_in_SOPA_protest_Twitter_declines


I give it less than a month until someone tries pulling the same thing except repackaging the bill and giving it another name.


----------



## Neuron (Jan 17, 2012)

I feel a little ill when I think about the combinations of NDAA passing, the massive corporate and bought out support of politicians for SOPA and PIPA, and the fact the super wealthy are still using ALEC to write legislation to target those in poverty and toss them in private prisons for a nice fat check from the government.

And speaking out may become dangerous if these draconian laws keep coming.

If PIPA still fails to pass, they'll keep making it until it passes. This is a corporate interest and they will win with wads of cold hard cash.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 17, 2012)

Lacus said:


> I feel a little ill when I think about the combinations of NDAA passing, the massive corporate and bought out support of politicians for SOPA and PIPA, and the fact the super wealthy are still using ALEC to write legislation to target those in poverty and toss them in private prisons for a nice fat check from the government.
> 
> And speaking out may become dangerous if these draconian laws keep coming.
> 
> If PIPA still fails to pass, they'll keep making it until it passes. This is a corporate interest and they will win with wads of cold hard cash.


Lobbying should be high treason.


----------



## Heimdal (Jan 17, 2012)

Predictable outcome occurred, how unexpected.


----------



## Neuron (Jan 17, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Lobbying should be high treason.


If I do start making speeches about this bullshit in real life, I'll be called a traitor. And possibly targeted for imprisonment/assassination, if I somehow got noteworthy enough.

That is what I get for caring about people, not things.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 17, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Lobbying should be high treason.


Bush Sr. didn't get high treason for Iran-Contra, Jr. for forging evidence to justify the Iraq War and the South for betraying America's ideals of freedom to rebel and fight for preserving slavery.

Face it, if your power base is just large enough it's never treason in America.



Heimdal said:


> Predictable outcome


Pfffhahaha


----------



## Heimdal (Jan 17, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Pfffhahaha



SOPA isn't the first of it's kind. It's failure was completely predictable. I didn't say we shouldn't do anything to stop it, just that SOPA is a clear and obvious failure. If it somehow did pass, they'd go "whoops" and get rid of it after it helps cripple the economy even further.


----------



## Teal (Jan 17, 2012)

Heimdal said:


> SOPA isn't the first of it's kind. It's failure was completely predictable. I didn't say we shouldn't do anything to stop it, just that SOPA is a clear and obvious failure. If it somehow did pass, they'd go "whoops" and get rid of it after it helps cripple the economy even further.


 They would blame each other and try to use it to their advantage in the coming election.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 17, 2012)

Heimdal said:


> It's failure was completely predictable.


With bills like this it's never predictable. Never.

The same was said about DMCA and NDAA, and we all know how those ended. Everytime a moneyed special interest group pushes a new enabling bill to help themselves you can be sure the chances are clearly in favor of it passing rather than failing.

SOPA is a fluke, a statistical outlier because they overreached this time and pissed off too large (and especially too powerful) a part of the populace.

Nevertheless I hope this will turn the tide in case of PIPA, too.


----------



## Teal (Jan 17, 2012)

Americans can I have your attention. http://voteforthenet.com/


----------



## VGmaster9 (Jan 17, 2012)

Uh-oh


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 17, 2012)

VGmaster9 said:


> Uh-oh


SONAVABITCH!

Although we all knew this was going to happen where they just spam the shit out of congress until it pases.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 17, 2012)

VGmaster9 said:


> Uh-oh



Oh come _on._

They're starting act like annoying little children now, more than usual. 

"Mommy? Can I have this toy???"
"No."
"Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy-"
"NO."
"_Mommymommymommymommymommymommymommymommy_"


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

VGmaster9 said:


> Uh-oh


 This is why we can't have nice things.


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

Well several sites including Wikipedia have already gone dark. I'm gonna take screen caps.


----------



## DarrylWolf (Jan 18, 2012)

Sure, I'm against SOPA but why do I have to miss out on Wikipedia for even a day because of this no hope for passage legislation?


----------



## Neuron (Jan 18, 2012)

DarrylWolf said:


> Sure, I'm against SOPA but why do I have to miss out on Wikipedia for even a day because of this no hope for passage legislation?


as long as they buy out the politicians, it's a sure thing...eventually.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm sending my senators and representative a sympathy card mourning the death of free speech on the Internet tomorrow.


----------



## Corto (Jan 18, 2012)

Can we get a list of the sites shutting down/changing banners/etc for SOPA? I know about Reddit and Wikipedia. Any more?


----------



## Kaamos (Jan 18, 2012)

Corto said:


> Can we get a list of the sites shutting down/changing banners/etc for SOPA? I know about Reddit and Wikipedia. Any more?



Google blacked out their logo, that's all I've really noticed.

edit: when I checked my email I noticed that SOPA and PIPA were in the "top ten trending now" thing that Yahoo won't let me get rid of. I guess that means a lot of people in the general internet public are actually interested in this. Still not as popular as Katy Perry playing the sims though. That's number fucking one.


----------



## GingerM (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Americans can I have your attention. http://voteforthenet.com/



Canadians, you can help as well - write to your Member of Parliament, write to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (John Baird), write to the Minister of State of Foreign Affairs (Diane Ablonczy), write to Senators. Here are some links and email addresses to get you started:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper: stephen.harper@parl.gc.ca 
Minister for Foreign Affairs John Baird: john.baird@parl.gc.ca
Minister of State Diane Ablonczy: diane.ablonczy@parl.gc.ca

Senator Yonah Martin: martin@sen.parl.gc.ca - Human Rights, Social Affairs, Science and Technology, Transport & Communications
Senator S.B. Jaffer: jaffem@sen.parl.gc.ca - Legal Affairs
Senator Janice G. Johnson: johnsj@sen.parl.gc.ca - [SIZE=-1]Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Members of Parliament listing: [/SIZE]http://www.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx?TimePeriod=Current&Language=E
[SIZE=-1]Senators listed by province: [/SIZE]http://www.parl.gc.ca/SenatorsMembers/Senate/SenatorsBiography/isenator.asp?sortord=P&Language=E[SIZE=-1]

Some informational links:
Electronic Frontiers Foundation
A Sysadmin's View of SOPA and PIPA
Wikimedia
[/SIZE]


----------



## Ad Hoc (Jan 18, 2012)

Is anything actually blacked out for anyone? Wiki says it's "locked" but I can still see everything. :l Am I too early? Only thing that looks blacked out is 4chan. 



Kaamos said:


> edit: when I checked my email I noticed that SOPA and PIPA were in the  "top ten trending now" thing that Yahoo won't let me get rid of. I guess  that means a lot of people in the general internet public are actually  interested in this. Still not as popular as Katy Perry playing the sims  though. That's number fucking one.


SOPA's number two on my Yahoo. 

Kim Kardashian is number one though. Jesus.


----------



## Recel (Jan 18, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> Is anything actually blacked out for anyone? Wiki says it's "locked" but I can still see everything. :l Am I too early?



I found a few websites that are blacked out, but no "big sites" yet to be honest.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> Is anything actually blacked out for anyone? Wiki says it's "locked" but I can still see everything. :l Am I too early?



Nope, the blackout is on, but Wikipedia's blackout depends on JavaScript to work.

Besides that, the whole purpose of this mass-blackout is to raise awareness, not to actually kill the Web.


----------



## Dragonfurry (Jan 18, 2012)

Ad Hoc said:


> Is anything actually blacked out for anyone? Wiki says it's "locked" but I can still see everything. :l Am I too early?



Well they said for Wikipedia is blacked out. But it can still be seen through mobile devices.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 18, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Nope, the blackout is on, but Wikipedia's blackout depends on JavaScript to work.





Dragonfurry said:


> Well they said for Wikipedia is blacked out. But it can still be seen through mobile devices.



Mobile phones propably have different Javascript thingies


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 18, 2012)

Corto said:


> Can we get a list of the sites shutting down/changing banners/etc for SOPA? I know about Reddit and Wikipedia. Any more?


http://sopastrike.com/


----------



## Corto (Jan 18, 2012)

On the wikipedia article/link thingy they said they purposefuly left the mobile version active so wikipedia could be used. Same explanation goes to the "block" being some Java shit that can be disabled. Seems sites are just going with the "raise awareness" thing, not the "let's kill the net for a day to show those fuckers". Ballistics missile instead of the nuclear option they were discussing I guess.


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 18, 2012)

Tumblr and e621 are blacked out too.


----------



## ramsay_baggins (Jan 18, 2012)

If you're outside the US you can sign this petition against the bills: http://americancensorship.org/#petition-state-department


----------



## Cain (Jan 18, 2012)

Gavrill said:


> Tumblr and e621 are blacked out too.


NOT THE FURRY PORN!

:V


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 18, 2012)

Jagged Edge said:


> NOT THE FURRY PORN!
> 
> :V


Haha yeah x3

I'm glad Varka approved that though c: He's a cool dude.


----------



## Cain (Jan 18, 2012)

ramsay_baggins said:


> If you're outside the US you can sign this petition against the bills: http://americancensorship.org/#petition-state-department


Woo!
Signed.


----------



## DW_ (Jan 18, 2012)

ramsay_baggins said:


> If you're outside the US you can sign this petition against the bills: http://americancensorship.org/#petition-state-department



Signed!


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

ramsay_baggins said:


> If you're outside the US you can sign this petition against the bills: http://americancensorship.org/#petition-state-department


 Oh snap. *Takes link to post elsewhere*

Also for Americans (in case you missed me posting it earlier) http://voteforthenet.com/


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 18, 2012)

Looks like Fa is protesting as well.


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Looks like Fa is protesting as well.


 I know right isn't it awsome!?
Also some of us are blacking out our avatars.

EVERYONE BLACKOUT YOUR AVATAR!!!


----------



## Deleted member 3615 (Jan 18, 2012)

Anti-SOPA submissions are a failed attempt at being clever....(HURR THIS COMMENT WAS CENSORED BY SOPA btw)


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 18, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Looks like Fa is protesting as well.


It's kinda futile imo, it isn't getting us anywhere, unless congressmen were furries


----------



## Kaamos (Jan 18, 2012)

The Firefox startup page is a dark and says stop SOPA with links and stuff, but the everything else on it still works.



Gavrill said:


> Tumblr and e621 are blacked out too.



hentai  foundry also has a big STOP SOPA popup when you go on the site. Or uh,  somebody told me they did it's not like I go there or anything.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 18, 2012)

ramsay_baggins said:


> If you're outside the US you can sign this petition against the bills: http://americancensorship.org/#petition-state-department


Signed
Now to wait for spam mails


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 18, 2012)

I feel like such an armchair activist. 

Oh well. It's something.

All of the petitions say that they'll use my e-mail to contact me about things in the future. Not sure if want.


----------



## Kaamos (Jan 18, 2012)

Unsilenced said:


> I feel like such an armchair activist.
> 
> Oh well. It's something.
> 
> All of the petitions say that they'll use my e-mail to contact me about things in the future. Not sure if want.



Just do what I did and make a new email account for it. Takes like, 5 minutes.


----------



## Antonin Scalia (Jan 18, 2012)

_*Reminder*_ ---> https://www.torproject.org/download/download.html.en http://www.peerblock.com/ <---


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> EVERYONE BLACKOUT YOUR AVATAR!!!



What have I been doing for the last few days?


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 18, 2012)

my avatar represents the movie industry


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

I wasn't paying enough attention (I was watching the vote on telling Obama to put his proposed debt limit increase where the sun doesn't shine), but another rep made an out-of-order request to strike his name from H.R.3261, SOPA, about ten minutes before this here post of mine.


----------



## Ames (Jan 18, 2012)

Gavrill said:


> Tumblr and *e621* are blacked out too.



Holy shit I laughed so hard


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I wasn't paying enough attention (I was watching the vote on telling Obama to put his proposed debt limit increase where the sun doesn't shine), but another rep made an out-of-order request to strike his name from H.R.3261, SOPA, about ten minutes before this here post of mine.


 I heard three dropped out, anyone know who exactly and the actual number?


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 18, 2012)

JamesB said:


> Holy shit I laughed so hard


OMG WHAR I GET PORN NOW?? I already knew it was going to but I forgot that was today

At least they have a message up, are there any sites going down without explanation?


----------



## Kaamos (Jan 18, 2012)

Gavrill said:


> At least they have a message up, are there any sites going down without explanation?



Everybody seems to have some sort of link to or explanation of what SOPA would do, it would be kind of pointless because some people would just think the site is down for another reason.

I just noticed http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/ is also down, and The Spoony Experiment has a freaky new banner.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

So when is the bill supposed to be passed?


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 18, 2012)

DA has a SOPA/PIPA discussion thing but like most DA discussions it is utter shit sooo.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

I dont know about you guys.

But im listening to sopa cabna by dann bull now.

FUCK SOPA


----------



## Rai Toku (Jan 18, 2012)

One of the petitions mentioned earlier in this thread got an official white house response. Along with the prevention of allowing new people to sign it. How pleasant. The people that wrote the response don't seem to know what's actually in the bills, either, or they simply don't care. Here you can see the response.


----------



## CrazyLee (Jan 18, 2012)

I swear to god, this is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life...


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

veeno said:


> So when is the bill supposed to be passed?



Never, if we have our way.  PIPA is supposedly going up for a vote on Tuesday, January 24, and SOPA markup will resume early February if not sooner.


----------



## ramsay_baggins (Jan 18, 2012)

Tor's site is blacked out. This was posted in another thread: http://www.zog.net/xanadu-or-bust/r...ility-of-censorship-oppression-and-stupidity/

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

We need to start building alternative Internets.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

I will fight.

Come my people stand against the people of sopa and pipa.

We will keep are internet.

RISE MY PEOPLE TO ARMS.


----------



## TechnoGypsy (Jan 18, 2012)

Another anti-SOPA song.
[video=youtube;1p-TV4jaCMk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1p-TV4jaCMk[/video]


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

If either of these loads of shit passes, then fuck hoping to have a replacement politician to vote for, I'm going out and getting *my* ass on the motherfucking ballot!


----------



## CrazyLee (Jan 18, 2012)

VGmaster9 said:


> Uh-oh



"BUT, BUT, BUT.... SOPA protects American JOBS! Don't you want to* protect jobs* too?!"

I swear to fucking god, Congressman Dingleberry (R-Shithole) could take a dump and would say he was creating jobs.


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> If either of these loads of shit passes, then fuck hoping to have a replacement politician to vote for, I'm going out and getting *my* ass on the motherfucking ballot!


 I'll vote for you.

Also I think I heard that the total of people that dropped out it 7. Anyone go any info?
Twitter is getting a bit chaotic.


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 18, 2012)

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN JOBS?!


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

Hey tell me everyone, what's the first thing you would do if either of these bills passes?


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Hey tell me everyone, what's the first thing you would do if either of these bills passes?



Pirate something. Anything. Preferably something ironic. 

Then wait for the shitstorm as the laws actually start to get enforced.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Hey tell me everyone, what's the first thing you would do if either of these bills passes?


Bomb poland.


----------



## Rai Toku (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Hey tell me everyone, what's the first thing you would do if either of these bills passes?


Post copyrighted material all over government sites and the sites of the bill's supporters.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

Wait no i would not.

I would bomb germany.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> We need to start building alternative Internets.


Hey, that was my idea!

But you're welcome to help work on Gryphnet 1.0. If everything works out it will be way better than the Internet, with hookers and blackjack.



veeno said:


> Wait no i would not.
> 
> I would bomb germany.


That's actually not a bad idea.

In this case we had a wonderful pretense for war and could invade America with our allies to overturn SOPA and PIPA by force.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

OK i will get the jet and nukes.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

http://www.mpaa.org/resources/c4c3712a-7b9f-4be8-bd70-25527d5dfad8.pdf



			
				Motion Picture Association of America said:
			
		

> *FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE*
> January 17, 2012
> 
> *WASHINGTON* â€”The following is a statement by Senator Chris Dodd, Chairman and CEO of the Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA) on the so-called â€œBlackout Dayâ€ protesting anti-piracy legislation:
> ...



Original bold emphasis preserved. Original italic emphasis lost due to formatting.

Can anyone spot *all* the things that are wrong in this press release?


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 18, 2012)

veeno said:


> OK i will get the jet and nukes.


Not enough time; just summon some matter-ghosts for the necessary destruction.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

I can make a jet in ten seconds im a damn alchemist.


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 18, 2012)

I like how even if SOPA/PIPA passes there's already ways to get around it.

You can't beat nerds, congress.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 18, 2012)

I saw it only ever hinted at, but how do those bills stand in relationship to international law? Is the US still acting inside its bailiwick?


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 18, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> http://www.mpaa.org/resources/c4c3712a-7b9f-4be8-bd70-25527d5dfad8.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These things. They just *ask* to be used in Buzzword Bingo. 

...

Or a drinking game. 

"'Protect jobs!' That's two shots!"


----------



## Teal (Jan 18, 2012)

@ ArielMT  *à² _à² *


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

The CEO of the MPAA is a United States senator.  How did *that* happen?



Gryphoneer said:


> I saw it only ever hinted at, but how do those bills stand in relationship to international law? Is the US still acting inside its bailiwick?



No, it's well _outside_.  It gives U.S. corporations the authority to enforce U.S. laws with complete disregard for international borders and sovereignty, even without the DNS-breaking amendments.  (Edit: Also, without the need for going through the U.S. legal system.  Imagine DMCA takedowns, but as child's play training and without a copyright or trade treaty such as the Berne Convention or ACTA.)


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 18, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> No, it's well _outside_.  It gives U.S. corporations the authority to enforce U.S. laws with complete disregard for international borders and sovereignty, even without the DNS-breaking amendments.  (Edit: Also, without the need for going through the U.S. legal system.  Imagine DMCA takedowns, but as child's play training and without a copyright or trade treaty such as the Berne Convention or ACTA.)


It would be just _hilarious_ if the US got DDOS'd by the sheer amount of mail from all over the world complaining over the various violations of their law.


----------



## deishido (Jan 18, 2012)

You know what's funny? Most of the people protesting this by posting various images, are posting various images that belong to someone else and are thus considered disallowed by SOPA  :V


----------



## Cain (Jan 18, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> It's kinda futile imo, it isn't getting us anywhere, unless congressmen were furries


Y u so pessimistic?


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

deishido said:


> You know what's funny? Most of the people protesting this by posting various images, are posting various images that belong to someone else and are thus considered disallowed by SOPA  :V



If not for the Fair Use Doctrine, which SOPA's supporters conveniently forget. :3c


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> I'll vote for you.
> 
> Also I think I heard that the total of people that dropped out it 7. Anyone go any info?
> Twitter is getting a bit chaotic.



I'd run for Congress, which means only New Mexicans can vote for me, or even sign the petition to put my name on the ballot if I decide to run.

Also, the EFF just released a thank you Internet letter saying 13 senators dropped support, but I can't verify this or see who they are because the OpenCongress.org link in the EFF's article is slashdotted.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

How do i censor my av?


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 18, 2012)

veeno said:


> How do i censor my av?



If you'd like a hand, I can shop it for you real quick like. 
Like mine, yes?

Actually, if anybody else wants their avatar censored too, just speak up.


----------



## veeno (Jan 18, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> If you'd like a hand, I can shop it for you real quick like.
> 
> Like mine, yes?


Yes please.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 18, 2012)

veeno said:


> Yes please.



Done and done! Anybody else?


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 18, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> If you'd like a hand, I can shop it for you real quick like.
> Like mine, yes?
> 
> Actually, if anybody else wants their avatar censored too, just speak up.



Please? I would have done it, but photoshop is on my other computer.


----------



## Cain (Jan 18, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> If you'd like a hand, I can shop it for you real quick like.
> Like mine, yes?
> 
> Actually, if anybody else wants their avatar censored too, just speak up.


I'd like one, if it ain't to much trouble, foofie.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 18, 2012)

Unsilenced said:


> Please? I would have done it, but photoshop is on my other computer.



Sho' thing. I'll be honest, the one you have now is pretty effective though.



Jagged Edge said:


> I'd like one, if it ain't to much trouble, foofie.



Hmm, where's you old Fayvatar? That one would work better than your current one.


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 18, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> Sho' thing. I'll be honest, the one you have now is pretty effective though.



Thank you. It's a good image now, but it's also the one I use in my sig.


----------



## TechnoGypsy (Jan 18, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> What would be harder to do, rebuild a SOPA damaged Internet or start a new one?


I say building a whole new internet would be harder.
With the current one, it's still there. it just needs a little persistence until it's fixed.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 18, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> Actually, if anybody else wants their avatar censored too, just speak up.


Oh, me too me too.


----------



## Fenrari (Jan 18, 2012)

:/ Will people stop posting the same censored picture? It's getting boring.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 18, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Oh, me too me too.



I wasn't totally sure what exactly to put the censor *-*



Fenrari said:


> :/ Will people stop posting the same censored picture? It's getting boring.



The idea is not to entertain you with pretty pictures, it's to get a point across and show support. >:T

Oh, and here are some simple all-black-with-text avatars. Free use for everybody.
100x100px
130x30px
150x150px
150x150px


----------



## LuchadoreBob (Jan 18, 2012)

[h=6]Everything is â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆ. â–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ fine â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ. â–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ trust â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ â–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆâ–ˆ the government.[/h]


----------



## DW_ (Jan 18, 2012)

SOPA, along with PIPA and ACTA, are bullshit. Big Media just doesn't want to change, and now they're forcing it down our collective throat.


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 19, 2012)

I'd just install those add-ons that go around IP blocks by finding a foreign source.

Then I'd send a message to my congressman using nothing but letters screencapped and posted as images from banned web pages.


----------



## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

I'd protest at the US embassy. My country has been nothing but protests this last year, it's time I got my hands dirty and organized something.


----------



## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 19, 2012)

What would I do if the bill passed?
Stop internet usage. Do outdoor stuff


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 19, 2012)

Well, since I've already downloaded Tor, I'd probably go about my life normally for the most part. Except for borrowing more DVD's from the library.

Then don a Guy Fawkes mask and protest like the world's gonna end in a day, after successfully downloading a way around the blocks.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

The PIPA casualty list so far:


_Name__State__Party__Former co-sponsor_Lisa MurkowskiAlaskaRepublican.John BoozmanArkansasRepublicanYes.Marco RubioFloridaRepublicanYes.Mark KirkIllinoisRepublican.David VitterLouisianaRepublicanYes.Olympia SnowMaineRepublican.Ben CardinMarylandDemocratYes.Scott BrownMassachusettsRepublican.Roy BluntMissourriRepublicanYes.Mike JohannsNebraskaRepublican.Kelly AyotteNew HampshireRepublicanYes.Tom CoburnOklahomaRepublican.James InhofeOklahomaRepublican.Jeff MerkleyOregonDemocrat.Pat ToomeyPennsylvaniaRepublican.Jim DeMintSouth CarolinaRepublican.John CornynTexasRepublican.Orrin HatchUtahRepublicanYes.


----------



## Gavrill (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm kind of surprised to see someone from SC on that list. I never expect for this state to do anything useful.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

My rep tweeted two hours ago that he's come out against SOPA!  HUZZAH!

Unfortunately, both of my senators are still PIPA co-sponsors.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 19, 2012)

PA still for it? Oh _hell_ no.

>:T Shit's gonna go down.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> PA still for it? Oh _hell_ no.
> 
> >:T Shit's gonna go down.



One of the two.  That list I posted is those who recently dropped support, not those who still do support it.


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> The PIPA casualty list so far:
> 
> 
> _Name_
> ...



Nice.


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> One of the two.  That list I posted is those who recently dropped support, not those who still do support it.



Oh, I see now. The whole ./yes. thing had me confused for a bit there.

Still, there's work to be done, angry emails to be sent.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> The PIPA casualty list so far:
> 
> 
> _Name__State__Party__Former co-sponsor_Lisa MurkowskiAlaskaRepublican.John BoozmanArkansasRepublicanYes.Marco RubioFloridaRepublicanYes.Mark KirkIllinoisRepublican.David VitterLouisianaRepublicanYes.Olympia SnowMaineRepublican.Ben CardinMarylandDemocratYes.Scott BrownMassachusettsRepublican.Roy BluntMissourriRepublicanYes.Mike JohannsNebraskaRepublican.Kelly AyotteNew HampshireRepublicanYes.Tom CoburnOklahomaRepublican.James InhofeOklahomaRepublican.Jeff MerkleyOregonDemocrat.Pat ToomeyPennsylvaniaRepublican.Jim DeMintSouth CarolinaRepublican.John CornynTexasRepublican.Orrin HatchUtahRepublicanYes.


It's probably that they aren't willing to support such a unpopular bill during a election year.


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> It's probably that they aren't willing to support such a unpopular bill during a election year.


 Let's vote all the supporters out! I say if they ever supported it vote them out anyway.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Let's vote all the supporters out! I say if they ever supported it vote them out anyway.


In all likelihood after the election congress won't give a fuck and pass it under a different name.


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> In all likelihood after the election congress won't give a fuck and pass it under a different name.


 Regardless I want all the current assholes out.


----------



## The_Mask (Jan 19, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Regardless I want all the current assholes out.



Every member of congress and the senate, and their respective staff, should be removed from office and banned from holding a political position ever again.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> In all likelihood after the election congress won't give a fuck and pass it under a different name.



They already did once before, and PIPA/SOPA is the result.  Look up COICA.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

Sorry for the douplepost again a half hour later, but more PIPA/SOPA news should be shared.  Copied verbatim from http://wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/letter-to-internet.pdf [PDF]:


United States Senate
WASHINGTON, DC 20510​
January 18, 2012

Innovators, Speakers, Thinkers, and Agents for Change
The World Wide Web

Dear Friends:

Today thousands of websites have chosen to voluntarily go offline or modify their home pages with public service information.  Some have called this a stunt.  I say it's a brave and poignant reminder that we can't take the Internet for granted.

The Internet has become an integral part of everyday life precisely because it has been an open-to-all land of opportunity where entrepreneurs, thinkers and innovators are free to try, fail and then try again.  The Internet has changed the way we communicate with each other, the way we learn about the world and the way we conduct business.  It has done this by eliminating the tollgates, middle men, and other barriers to entry that have so often predetermined winners and losers in the marketplace.  It has created a world where ideas, products and creative expression have an opportunity regardless of who offers them or where they originate.

Protect IP (PIPA) and the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) are a step towards a different kind of Internet.  They are a step towards an Internet in which those with money and lawyers and access to power have a greater voice than those who don't.  They are a step towards an Internet in which online innovators need lawyers as much or more than they need good ideas.  And they are a step towards a world in which Americans have less of a voice to argue for a free and open Internet around the world.

Proponents of these bills say these arguments are overblown, but I say any step towards an Internet in which one person's voice counts more than another is a step in the wrong direction.  These are bills that should give us pause.  These are bills that should be studied and debated.  Congress should consult experts and consider alternatives and make 100% sure that any step it takes to police the Internet doesn't change the Internet as we know it.  This is why I put a hold on the Protect IP act and its predecessor over a year ago and introduced a bipartisan alternative last month.

The Senate, however, has scheduled a vote for Tuesday, January 24 at 2:15 PM to override my hold and move the Protect IP Act towards passage.  *This will be the deciding vote* that determines whether PIPA and SOPA move through the Congress or are turned back for more sober discussion.

We are up against a group of the biggest, most powerful, well-funded and well-organized interest groups in Washington.  No one thought millions of Internet users would speak up or that those voices could overcome the power of these interests.  Today you should that the Internet is not just a platform for ideas, commerce, and expression, but also for political action that will defend those principles.  *Your voices must continue to be heard.*

Thank you for standing up for what's important, for continuing to speak out and for demonstrating that we should always stand up for what we think is right regardless of the odds.  This is an opportunity to reshape the way Washington operates, not just responding to narrow interests but hearing the voices of millions of Americans whose rights and livilihodds are affected by our actions.

Sincerely,

Ron Wyden
United States Senator


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 19, 2012)

Boycott the corporate backers nonetheless, just to be sure.



barefootfoof said:


> I wasn't totally sure what exactly to put the censor *-*


Hah, that was the plan.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

SOPA summarized:
You could get 5 years in prison for uploading a song by Michael Jackson, one more year than the doctor who killed him.


----------



## triage (Jan 19, 2012)

RIP Megaupload
i never used you


----------



## LizardKing (Jan 19, 2012)

But hey, at least you'll still be safe with stuff in the public domain, right? Right?

Well fuck


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 19, 2012)

With prison sentences for piracy, I imagine it would be very easy for someone to rack up a life sentence or two. 

What do you think they would do if thousands or even just hundreds of people came forward and confessed to enough piracy to put them all away for life?


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> But hey, at least you'll still be safe with stuff in the public domain, right? Right?
> 
> Well fuck



Whyyyyyyyyyyy?


----------



## Littlerock (Jan 19, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> But hey, at least you'll still be safe with stuff in the public domain, right? Right?
> 
> Well fuck



Fucking shitting hell. >:C
This is absolute bullshit!



Unsilenced said:


> With prison sentences for piracy, I imagine it  would be very easy for someone to rack up a life sentence or two.
> 
> What do you think they would do if thousands or even just hundreds of  people came forward and confessed to enough piracy to put them all away  for life?



Now _there's_ a good idea. If enough people confessed to their actual pirating, there's no way they could all be imprisoned.
They'd probably try to fine everybody though :T

Let's bribe all of the occupy protestors with free food to wear Guy Fawkes masks and hold signs that say "I illegally downloaded my entire music library, and several movies.".


----------



## veeno (Jan 19, 2012)

FUCKING SOPA


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 19, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> Now _there's_ a good idea. If enough people confessed to their actual pirating, there's no way they could all be imprisoned.
> They'd probably try to fine everybody though :T
> 
> Let's bribe all of the occupy protestors with free food to wear Guy Fawkes masks and hold signs that say "I illegally downloaded my entire music library, and several movies.".



Yeah, they could try to fine people, but those add up too. They try to get someone to cough up several hundred times their net worth, it's not really going to work. 

Either way, the penalties are such that anyone pirating regularly, never mind intentionally protesting, will quickly find refuge in audacity.


----------



## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

Who signed that Google petition yesterday, out of curiosity?


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> But hey, at least you'll still be safe with stuff in the public domain, right? Right?
> 
> Well fuck


My reaction to this news.

Seriously, is there anything we can do anymore to stop this crap anymore?  It's as if the government just doesn't even care anymore and is doing whatever they want regardless even though it's a election year.


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Luti Kriss said:


> Who signed that Google petition yesterday, out of curiosity?


 I did, did you?


----------



## Unsilenced (Jan 19, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> My reaction to this news.
> 
> Seriously, is there anything we can do anymore to stop this crap anymore?  It's as if the government just doesn't even care anymore and is doing whatever they want regardless even though it's a election year.



It will be much easier to convince people that it's a bad idea once it passes, unfortunately. 

Hindsight and all that.


----------



## veeno (Jan 19, 2012)

I just pirated a game.

Does that meen im going to jail?


----------



## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

http://maddox.xmission.com/

Read this.


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

Corto said:


> http://maddox.xmission.com/
> 
> Read this.


 Interesting. Everybody let's boycott!


----------



## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

It makes sense. The American "civil unrest" mentality basically boils down to hipsters camping inside a city and internet crusaders adding little black bars to their avatars in furry porn forums. The lobbyists pushing these legislations don't give a fuck. 

Anyways, there's this http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/exc...ions-because-of-administrations-piracy-stand/
Any bets Obama will pussy out on the Veto, like he did with the NDAA?


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

Corto said:


> Any bets Obama will pussy out on the Veto, like he did with the NDAA?


That's a suckers bet; anybody that bets he does veto is going to be down $50.


----------



## LizardKing (Jan 19, 2012)

Corto said:


> http://maddox.xmission.com/
> 
> Read this.





> 256,309,711 people think stopping SOPA will change anything.



Damn, I haven't seen any of his updates get close to that in years.


----------



## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

To be fair I thought Maddox had died like 5 years ago. And I never really liked his stuff.


----------



## Teal (Jan 19, 2012)

So everyone wanna agree on some stuff to start boycotting?


----------



## Namba (Jan 19, 2012)

That article. It makes me realize something.... we can't do shit.



TealMoon said:


> I did, did you?


Ayep. Not sure how much good it'll do though, thinking about what all has been going down.


----------



## veeno (Jan 19, 2012)

So does that meen they will take my internet?

DAMN


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 19, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> So everyone wanna agree on some stuff to start boycotting?



I'm pretty sure I made it clear in the last thread, and even as the guy who runs the site that Corto posted admits, chances are you're going to run into a situation where you'll end up still supporting a company who supports SOPA.

I do agree with his point about making sure those people who've supported this piece of legislation don't get re-elected.  If the people on this board and others are absolutely serious about being against this then it's important they do make themselves known through their votes.  If you live in an area that one of those senators represents, vote against them.  Or alternatively, show up to any debate/town hall meeting any of them may hold while looking for reelection.  Ask questions about SOPA.  See how much they actually know about the bill and so on.

Also the 24-hour blackout of sites may have deterred some co-sponsors from continuing to support both PIPA and SOPA, but we all have to realize that there are still many others who still support the bills who weren't bothered.  TBH, my online activities weren't really that hindered, aside from a couple of things that I wanted to look up on Wikipedia which I went to alternative sources to find out about.  If internet organizations are really serious about this, they realistically should collectively halt their services in order to make a point.  Problem is companies like Google serve a large amount of people who rely on them for their own business ventures.  It's difficult to do the right thing when you look like an asshole doing it.  Losing profits are also a bit of a deterrent.


----------



## CannonFodder (Jan 19, 2012)

Luti Kriss said:


> That article. It makes me realize something.... we can't do shit.


No shit, democracy is deader than Bachmann's presidential bid.


----------



## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

Term_the_Schmuck said:


> If internet organizations are really serious about this, they realistically should collectively halt their services in order to make a point.  Problem is companies like Google serve a large amount of people who rely on them for their own business ventures.  It's difficult to do the right thing when you look like an asshole doing it.  Losing profits are also a bit of a deterrent.


Nah, if they are really serious they must send some big ass checks to Obama right now. $$ is the only language politicians speak, and the entertainment industry lobby is far too strong in congress, but with Hollywood pulling the rug from under the Executive, maybe they can cut in. It'd even be a little Zen, pro SOPA buys votes while anti SOPA buys the Presidential veto.

Hell it's just an ironic joke I made up about how fucked we are, but it makes sense. I mean, the whole point of SOPA is a drowning man's last desperate kicks, right? I know those lobbyist handle a shitfuckton of money, but ain't the internet the "rising star"? The US will be run by a different set of companies, but at least these give us free porn and youtube.

EDIT: Actually considering how business savy Google is (they're like 2 years from owning the internet now) I'm a bit surprised they haven't bought government yet.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 19, 2012)

Corto said:


> Nah, if they are really serious they must send some big ass checks to Obama right now. $$ is the only language politicians speak, and the entertainment industry lobby is far too strong in congress, but with Hollywood pulling the rug from under the Executive, maybe they can cut in. It'd even be a little Zen, pro SOPA buys votes while anti SOPA buys the Presidential veto.
> 
> Hell it's just an ironic joke I made up about how fucked we are, but it makes sense. I mean, the whole point of SOPA is a drowning man's last desperate kicks, right? I know those lobbyist handle a shitfuckton of money, but ain't the internet the "rising star"? The US will be run by a different set of companies, but at least these give us free porn and youtube.
> 
> EDIT: Actually considering how business savy Google is (they're like 2 years from owning the internet now) I'm a bit surprised they haven't bought government yet.



I think I remember reading something about how Silicon Valley (generic term for techies with the internet, not necessarily the specific place), still have this idealized view where the internet still resides outside of government influence and things will work themselves out.  I don't think they've ever wanted to soil themselves with getting too involved in politics, and that may be biting them a bit on the ass for the time being.

And yeah, I've made the point in the past and I'm going to agree with you here, the SOPA thing seems like the last ditch effort to try and draw some boundaries with the internet, and given how mediums tend to overcome legislation, I'd have to give the edge to the internet as the "rising star" being able to come out on this.



TealMoon said:


> How about the makeup companies or pet meds? I don't think I'd unknowingly end up supporting them. :/



I seriously doubt boycotting Pet Meds or 1-800-CONTACTS is going to get the government's panties in a bunch.  Especially when you're boycotting them over the internet.  Just doesn't really go together in my mind.  The heavy hitters are who you'd want to go after, not the stragglers who are jumping in and yelling "ME TOO!"


----------



## Recel (Jan 19, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> No shit, democracy is deader than Bachmann's presidential bid.



And who killed democracy? 

If your answer is A; Politicians, B; Corporations, or C; Rich people, than you are wrong.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> No shit, democracy is deader than Bachmann's presidential bid.



Because not enough *good* people have both the courage and the perseverance to put their names on the ballot.  Attitudes of corruption and resignation among the masses reign supreme and feed a vicious cycle that keeps the two-party one-party kleptocracy in power.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 19, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Because not enough *good* people have both the courage and the perseverance to put their names on the ballot.  Attitudes of corruption and resignation among the masses reign supreme and feed a vicious cycle that keeps the two-party one-party kleptocracy in power.



Apathy and a general disenchantment with the concept of democratic principles tends to do that.


----------



## Corto (Jan 19, 2012)

Well when you attempt to apply a system devised for small cities where 90% of the population weren't considered citizens/people to millions, you tend to get trouble.

Hell I think my favourite quote ever is that Churchill one "democracy is a piece of shit, but you try to come up with a better alternative"*

*Churchill may have never said this exact sentence.


----------



## Rai Toku (Jan 19, 2012)

We have the technology to render Congress obsolete. We're using it right now, in fact. Electoral colleges, same thing. If you could get a system up and running with a high priority on rooting out fraud, identity theft, hacking, and the like, the internet allows the American people to have a direct say in politics. No more democratic-republic crap like we have now, the system created solely because it was a great waste of time and energy to get every person's say in government, we could be a pure democracy. No political parties, no lobbyists. The people would be the law-making force, from the poor to the rich. I think that, above all else, scares Congress and all the corporations trying to get things made in their favor. How do you expect to bribe every citizen enough to get things to go in your favor?

The first few months/years would be strange and unfamiliar, but in the long run, every vote will count, and the smart majority will keep things moving in a positive direction. And the lazy won't have any right to complain, having opted out of the voting process.

Anyway, there's a random spiel about one of the reasons in my mind as to why they would consider such laws.


----------



## Term_the_Schmuck (Jan 19, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Just giving an example of something that would be easy to boycott with little problems.



But let's both be honest with ourselves, why would you boycott those companies who likely have the least amount of influence over what's currently going on in Congress right now?

Do you honestly believe boycotting either of those companies helps your cause?  Because to me, that's just spinning your wheels and pretending you're going somewhere in order to give yourself the illusion of accomplishing something, no offense.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 19, 2012)

Corto said:


> internet crusaders adding little black bars to their avatars in furry porn forums


OH BURN

That has more to do with showing affiliation than anything else, you know.



Recel said:


> And who killed democracy?


B and C.

Everyone who claims otherwise just doesn't get it. Who  has enough dough to make the venal media channels delude the populace  into thinking the system works and everything's fine? Exactly.



Luti Kriss said:


> That article. It makes me realize something.... we can't do shit.


Only defeatist thinking like this prevents us.

The people will always have more power than the government. Take the money away from the moneybags and BAM democracy can return.


----------



## Antonin Scalia (Jan 19, 2012)

Every second you spent adding a black bar to your avatar could have been spent writing your representative, or a multitude of other things that would slow the decline of freedom, instead of deluding yourself thinking it makes a bit of difference, or because everyone else is doing it, or whatever.  Kill you are selfs.


----------



## ArielMT (Jan 19, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> B and C.
> 
> Everyone who claims otherwise just doesn't get it. Who  has enough dough to make the venal media channels delude the populace  into thinking the system works and everything's fine? Exactly.



Wrong.  The answer is NOTA.  The answer is the disenchanted and apathetic masses who proxy their power to the wrong people without realizing it.  Corrupt politicians, corrupt corporations, and corrupted rich people are only symptoms of the problem that allows the democracy of a democratic republic to vanish.


----------



## Gryphoneer (Jan 19, 2012)

Antonin Scalia said:


> Every second you spent adding a black bar  to your avatar could have been spent writing your representative, or a  multitude of other things that would slow the decline of freedom,  instead of deluding yourself thinking it makes a bit of difference, or  because everyone else is doing it, or whatever.  Kill you are  selfs.


What's the point of writing to some random official if their corporate masters start to push it through again some time down the line?

Remove the masters, remove the problem.


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## Recel (Jan 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> B and C.
> 
> Everyone who claims otherwise just doesn't get it. Who  has enough dough to make the venal media channels delude the populace  into thinking the system works and everything's fine? Exactly.



No. Who are the ones who see that they lose everything they have from rights to items and still bullshit their self into believing that losing everything is fine? Exactly.

People are willingly ignorant. They bitch and moan if something bad happens, but still, they let it happen. Billions of people around the world just look the other way when something bad happens to them. And when someone says "Lets do something about it!" how many people actually do so? Hundreds? Thousands? And the rest? They continue to bitch and moan, either home, on the internet or with friends.

Just to look at SOPA. What is the protest basically? That's right! It's bitching and moaning. No real action taken. Politicans and lobbyists aren't afraid of words, they are afraid of actions! Well, they are not afraid of that either because they know no one will take any meaningful action, and even if they do, it will be a great minority wich will be easy to deal with.

Until people let them self to be pushed around they will be pushed around.



Gryphoneer said:


> What's the point of writing to some random  official if their corporate masters start to push it through again some  time down the line?
> 
> Remove the masters, remove the problem.



And who will take their place? Anarchy? With selfish, ignorant people? Might as well blow up the planet!
Or other people? Than it's just a name change for the same thing.

Remember that the rich are people, they started from a family. If people are selfish and greedy, than their leaders will be selfish and greedy.

If you want to remove the problem, than do it, but treating symptoms won't remove the problem.


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

Recel said:


> People are willingly ignorant.


That's a myth perpetuated by those who believe the "sheeple" are to blame because they don't do enough for/don't join your fight.

I never once saw someone living on the street who bullshat himself into thinking everything's hunky-dory.

The simple reason is that there just isn't a lobby for the disenfranchised.


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## Recel (Jan 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> That's a myth perpetuated by those who believe the "sheeple" are to blame because they don't do enough for/don't join your fight.
> 
> I never once saw someone living on the street who bullshat himself into thinking everything's hunky-dory.
> 
> The simple reason is that there just isn't a lobby for the disenfranchised.



Way to nitpick words. It really shows me how you can or care to give a reply.



But lets go by your logic.

Lets say people do things against it, lets say its might be enough. Well, than where are the good results? Also, where are the bright and caring people who are ready to step in and save humanity? Or if having money is the only way to do something as you claim than where are the good rich people? Or is money magically only attracted to bad, selfish people?

Also, again, as you claim, if the government decides to do something that's bad for you, that you can actually feel is bad for you, how can the media make you feel good about it? I didn't hear people say "Well, I'll have to pay two times more on bills! Oh jolly day!" have you? Does the media have devices that manipulate these things?

I really don't know! So please, do explain.


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## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

The vote on PIPA will *not* happen this Tuesday as expected after all.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/4368

Original by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid:

There is no reason that the legitimate issues raised by many about this bill cannot be resolved. Counterfeiting and piracy cost the American economy billions of dollars and thousands of jobs each year, with the movie industry alone supporting over 2.2 million jobs. We must take action to stop these illegal practices. We live in a country where people rightfully expect to be fairly compensated for a dayâ€™s work, whether that person is a miner in the high desert of Nevada, an independent band in New York City, or a union worker on the back lots of a California movie studio. I admire the work that Chairman Leahy has put into this bill. I encourage him to continue engaging with all stakeholders to forge a balance between protecting Americansâ€™ intellectual property, and maintaining openness and innovation on the internet. We made good progress through the discussions weâ€™ve held in recent days, and I am optimistic that we can reach a compromise in the coming weeks.

Translation:

Let's wait until everyone's stopped watching us before we pass this pile.


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## DJ-Fragon (Jan 20, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9573/mzida.jpg



That won't happen.


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## Littlerock (Jan 20, 2012)

I just received an email from fightforthefuture.org stating that congress has dropped both SOPA and PIPA. Can anybody confirm this?


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## Teal (Jan 20, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> I just received an email from fightforthefuture.org stating that congress has dropped both SOPA and PIPA. Can anybody confirm this?


 I heard the same thing. Regardless they'll be back.


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## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

_*The battle is won!*_

Senator Reid, who controlled the fate of PIPA, shelved it!

Minutes later, Rep. Lamar Smith, chairman of the committee SOPA was in, also shelved it!

This battle is officially won, but as always the war is never over.

Reid:
http://reid.senate.gov/newsroom/pr_012012_reidstatementonintellectualpropertybill.cfm
https://twitter.com/#!/SenatorReid/status/160367959464878080
https://twitter.com/#!/SenatorReid/status/160368305050357760
https://twitter.com/#!/SenatorReid/status/160369258130456576

Smith:
http://judiciary.house.gov/news/01202012.html


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## General-jwj (Jan 20, 2012)

barefootfoof said:


> I just received an email from fightforthefuture.org stating that congress has dropped both SOPA and PIPA. Can anybody confirm this?



Just got the same email. Other people on an IRC I'm on right now seem to agree.


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## ArielMT (Jan 20, 2012)

Links edited in above.

Another edit: http://www.thedailygreenburgh.com/news/pipa-bagged-schumer-and-gillibrand - Senators Schumer and Gillibrand, PIPA's authors, are hinting they'll withdraw PIPA for, ahem, rework.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jan 20, 2012)

I am so excited I will walk naked around the house. This is no different than my normal day but now it means something


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## Namba (Jan 20, 2012)

Woohoo!!!! Hell yeah!!
Let's not hold our collective breath though, 'cause I don't think the fight is completely over yet.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 20, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> _*The battle is won!*_


The problem is they'll keep trying until a renamed identical bill is passed, I say now that the battle is won teabag them so they'll think twice before doing so.


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

Sorry, but that amounts only to a stage victory at the most.

The fight is _*never*_ over, there will always be bastards who want to make the world a worse place for whatever reason. Eternal vigilance, anyone?

Especially not given that the moneybags are still moneybags and therefore in charge.



BetrayerOfNihil said:


> Oh good. Now will all those "Fight the power!" assholes shut the fuck up and stop having Anarchistic fantasies of riot and revolution, for at least a little while?


Let me think about it...

Naw.


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## Littlerock (Jan 20, 2012)

At least we got somewhere with this, even if it will come back again. It's like herpes.

But for the time being, drinks all around!


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## Gryphoneer (Jan 20, 2012)

Better yet, make lobbying a thing of the past and let politicians make their decisions based on what's best for _all_ the people.


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## triage (Jan 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Better yet, make lobbying a thing of the past and let politicians make their decisions based on what's best for _all_ the people.



_â€‹pfft_


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## General-jwj (Jan 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Better yet, make lobbying a thing of the past and let politicians make their decisions based on what's best for _all_ the people.



Somewhere, in the United States, a politician just shuddered and is jokingly dismissed it as someone walking on their grave.


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## GingerM (Jan 20, 2012)

(cross-posting this from the Megauploads shutdown thread)

While I don't know the specifics of what triggered the Megauploads  shutdown, something I heard discussed on the local radio (CBC) yesterday  intrigued me as far as the question of piracy is concerned. Disclaimer -  this is me paraphrasing a discussion I heard as best as I remember it,  and so far as I know, neither the host nor the guest are lawyers, though  the guest works in the Canadian publishing industry. It was pointed out  that laws on things such as copyright differ from one nation to  another, even with those nations signatory to the Berne Convention on  copyright. The specific example used was the works of Ernest Hemmingway.  In Canada, those works are now coming into the public domain, because  Canadian copyright law provides a lesser period of protection (though it  meets the requirements of the Berne Convention) than US copyright. So  if someone in Canada were to upload the text of one of his books to a  server, has that person broken the law? Yes in the US, no in Canada. It  gets even murkier once you start asking "where is the server located",  or "is the domain name a (US) domestic one (i.e., a .com domain)?" There  are quite a few Canadian web services that host on servers in Canada  yet have .com domain names and would therefore be considered "domestic"  under the definition used in SOPA.

This opens the possibility of someone posting something which is in fact  legally public domain in one jurisdiction yet the US demanding  extradition because it's not public domain in the US. Then there's the  other side of the question - if a resident of the US accesses a server  located outside the US and views or downloads that  public-domain-in-that-country content, have they committed piracy? This  is one of many, many reasons why SOPA is a poor bill. I am willing,  Pollyanna that I am, to presume that US legislators are not inherently  malevolent, but mere ignorance of how the net works and the fact that it  is an information system that transcends national boundaries means they  must consider the question of how copyright and trademark may be  different in different nations and that what may be an infringement in  the US can still be not a crime. The alternative is that web hosters  everywhere will have to research and be aware of copyright and trademark  laws not just in their own country but in other countries. The legal  ramifications of that are just incredibly complex.


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## Teal (Jan 20, 2012)

Gryphoneer said:


> Better yet, make lobbying a thing of the past and let politicians make their decisions based on what's best for _all_ the people.


 You forgot the :V.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Jan 20, 2012)

HAs anyone realized that any government does not need SOPA or PIPA to be able to shut down sites based on piracy laws? they proved that by shutting down megaupload. If the government wanted to shut down sites on piracy laws they can, even without SOPA and PIPA.


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## Aidy (Jan 20, 2012)

They should just make another don't copy that floppy advert tbh. That'll stop those naughty pirates.


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## Teal (Jan 20, 2012)

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-could-kill-internet-privacy-for-good/242853/

Why can't they just leave the Internet the fuck alone?


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## CannonFodder (Jan 20, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-could-kill-internet-privacy-for-good/242853/
> 
> Why can't they just leave the Internet the fuck alone?


It looks like they found out how to kill the internet, cause no congressman getting re-elected would dare vote against it.


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## Teal (Jan 21, 2012)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1981

It's fucking Lamar Smith again.


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## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> It looks like they found out how to kill the internet, cause no congressman getting re-elected would dare vote against it.



Unless it was called what it is: a Big Brother blackmail bill.  (Alliteration could help it catch on.)



TealMoon said:


> http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1981
> 
> It's fucking Lamar Smith again.



Why am I not surprised?

Edit: And look at that, his district is a gerrymandered monster northeast of San Antonio and Austin tentacle-raping both cities.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Back to arms then?
> 
> I hate that man. Get him out of congress, get him out now! Or I'll come to texas and strangle you all.


In all fairness, Texas politics is so fucked up the ass that if Perry were to secede Texas, that within a week the state would be a flamming turd on fire with how little they understand how to run anything.


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## Littlerock (Jan 21, 2012)

Even I never thought they'd sink this low. This is absolutely _despicable_.

It's like the poorly-written plot to some shitty anarchist fantasy novel, happening for real.


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## Dragonfurry (Jan 21, 2012)

The internet, you amuse me.


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## TechnoGypsy (Jan 21, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-could-kill-internet-privacy-for-good/242853/
> 
> Why can't they just leave the Internet the fuck alone?


Gah! Why did you remind me of that one?

Now I feel horrible.


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## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

I suddenly want to write and have my Rep sponsor a bill called the Copyright Restoration Aligning Patents and Trademarks, All Suspending Terminally Indefinite Continuation Act, or the CRAPTASTIC Act, just to see if it proves a warning I give: Beware any bill whose short title is an acronym spelling English words, for such bills never accomplish what the words say.


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## Corto (Jan 21, 2012)

Well it also goes for acronyms in foreign languages, I initially though SOPA was about feeding the homeless and PIPA about bringing good ole English gentlemanliness back.


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## GingerM (Jan 21, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Right now I feel as if Lamar Smith is the anti-christ.
> 
> Anyway how do we fight against this pile of shit?



The same way as before: blog about it, pester your Congresscritters and Senators, write to the White House and ask them WTF is going on?! Also find out if the ACLU is aware of it; I understand anything that looks like an infringement of civil liberties is to them like raw beefsteak to a rotweiller.


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## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

MPAA directly and publicly threatens politicians who aren't corrupt enough to stay bought.

It's fun to see public secrets so angrily confirmed.


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## GingerM (Jan 21, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Everybody alert them to this! I have no idea how myself.



http://www.aclu.org/



ArielMT said:


> MPAA directly and publicly threatens politicians who aren't corrupt enough to stay bought.
> 
> It's fun to see public secrets so angrily confirmed.



And yet... somehow, that would never be admissible in a court as a statement of intent or admission of complicity.


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## branding-time (Jan 21, 2012)

Just got this new shirt. If you want one, let me know. FREE for the taking.  

And on real topic, I have signed the petition, called my senator, and sent a letter to the house of rep. 

http://d.facdn.net/art/branding-time/1327051169.branding-time_roxy.png  <<--- MY new shirt!


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## Commiecomrade (Jan 21, 2012)

What really scares me is if we do win this (which does seem likely), they'll try to keep doing it until it finally passes.


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## TechnoGypsy (Jan 21, 2012)

Commiecomrade said:


> What really scares me is if we do win this (which does seem likely), they'll try to keep doing it until it finally passes.


Indeed. They only have to win once, we have to keep winning every time.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jan 21, 2012)

Commiecomrade said:


> What really scares me is if we do win this (which does seem likely), they'll try to keep doing it until it finally passes.


The internet will prevail! Under the threat of SOPA and PIPA we stand united


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## Blutide (Jan 21, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> I trust him more than congress.



Same.


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## CrazyLee (Jan 21, 2012)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I am so excited I will walk naked around the house. This is no different than my normal day but now it means something



Hmm. Okay, we need to hook up a 24/7 webcam feed into your house...


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## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Sarcastic Coffeecup said:


> The internet will prevail! Under the threat of SOPA and PIPA we stand united


This is one of the few times that the entire internet collectively says to congress three words so loud that even with congress' heads up their ass they can still hear and those words are, "go fuck yourself!".


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## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> What about this ACTA thing? Is it gonna harm the Internet?



It's going to harm a lot more than the Internet.  It's a treaty that has been negotiated in secret, immune even from FOIA requests, for virtually all of the time its negotiations took place.

Good starts for info:
http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/16257654698/acta-in-a-nutshell-what-is-acta-acta-is-the
https://www.eff.org/issues/acta

Full text:
http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...commerciaux/fo/acta-acrc.aspx?lang=eng&view=d
http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...commerciaux/fo/intellect_property.aspx?view=d

And there's more.


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## Recel (Jan 21, 2012)

I think they discovered the trial and error method.

"Well, this didn't pass. Lets try this!"
"Nope. How about this one?"
"And this?"

:V


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## Seian Verian (Jan 21, 2012)

Honestly, I'm a bit confused as to why they're attempting all of this now. Is Congress really that out of touch with reality that they didn't foresee the public reaction to all the stuff they've been doing recently, in succession no less, or are they trying to make what's effectively an open challenge for the people to revolt? I mean, SOPA/PIPA, the Megaupload thing, ACTA... And the Supreme Court even ruled that they could extend copyrights and bring things out of the public domain. It seems a little odd to me that this would be happening all at once.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 21, 2012)

Seian Verian said:


> Honestly, I'm a bit confused as to why they're attempting all of this now._* Is Congress really that out of touch with reality*_


You answered your own question.

Hell we even still have congressmen that still think women are physically inferior to men and that they belong in the kitchen.


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## ArielMT (Jan 21, 2012)

Seian Verian said:


> Honestly, I'm a bit confused as to why they're attempting all of this now. Is Congress really that out of touch with reality that they didn't foresee the public reaction to all the stuff they've been doing recently, in succession no less, or are they trying to make what's effectively an open challenge for the people to revolt? I mean, SOPA/PIPA, the Megaupload thing, ACTA... And the Supreme Court even ruled that they could extend copyrights and bring things out of the public domain. It seems a little odd to me that this would be happening all at once.



It's not a new thing, to be honest.  It's just that there's gradually getting to be a large enough number of people paying attention and getting active in political support/opposition to surprise our elected leaders.  Besides, people have always paid slightly more attention to politics in election years than in off years, especially in Presidential election years.

Also, folks, let's not stuff a bunch of causes into the same few threads.  One would be hard enough to moderate.


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## Seian Verian (Jan 22, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> You answered your own question.
> 
> Hell we even still have congressmen that still think women are physically inferior to men and that they belong in the kitchen.



Well, yes, I knew they were out of touch with reality xP I was mostly referring to the degree. I mean, they haven't gotten the country exploded to bits yet, which is frankly kind of surprising.



ArielMT said:


> It's not a new thing, to be honest.  It's just  that there's gradually getting to be a large enough number of people  paying attention and getting active in political support/opposition to  surprise our elected leaders.  Besides, people have always paid slightly  more attention to politics in election years than in off years,  especially in Presidential election years.



Hm, I see. I'll admit I've never paid attention to politics in general much to begin with, but this particular series events drew my attention and seemed especially insane. I mean, it's not like stupidity is anything new, but there's just the issue of scale here.


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## CannonFodder (Jan 22, 2012)

Seian Verian said:


> Well, yes, I knew they were out of touch with reality xP I was mostly referring to the degree. I mean, they haven't gotten the country exploded to bits yet, which is frankly kind of surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> Hm, I see. I'll admit I've never paid attention to politics in general much to begin with, but this particular series events drew my attention and seemed especially insane. I mean, it's not like stupidity is anything new, but there's just the issue of scale here.


The sad thing is that we've come close to being wiped out as a species from the face of the earth, once during the cold war a faulty computer chip made the chain of command believe that the soviets' had destroyed the facility and had they not realized it was just a computer error where you are standing right now would be a smoldering radioactive crater.

Basically what I'm getting as is that it's a miracle that we aren't dead cause with how criminally inept that our government is.

Getting back on topic a ton of the congressmen that supported the bill didn't even know what the hell they were voting on, that's how inept they are to even vote for bills that would dangerously alter the internet that they don't even know anything about.


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## Heimdal (Jan 22, 2012)

There's something bothersome about the people who talk down about the blackout protest, as if it was lazy and pointless. It was extremely effective, more-so than any live protests have been in a rather long time (and more-so than a live protest could have ever accomplished regarding the internet. Using the internet to raise awareness for the internet is infinitely more persuasive than a handful of people with signs, referencing things the problem people won't understand). The problem still exists, but public awareness was dramatically increased as a result of the blackout, and knowing is half the battle.

I knew they would not pass, but I'm surprised at how hard-fought it has been. If your own damn country has made it so clear that they do not want these bills, you'd think it would be more of a no-brainer. How many unbiased citizens actually support these things?


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## CannonFodder (Jan 22, 2012)

Heimdal said:


> There's something bothersome about the people who talk down about the blackout protest, as if it was lazy and pointless. It was extremely effective, more-so than any live protests have been in a rather long time (and more-so than a live protest could have ever accomplished regarding the internet. Using the internet to raise awareness for the internet is infinitely more persuasive than a handful of people with signs, referencing things the problem people won't understand). The problem still exists, but public awareness was dramatically increased as a result of the blackout, and knowing is half the battle.
> 
> I knew they would not pass, but I'm surprised at how hard-fought it has been. If your own damn country has made it so clear that they do not want these bills, you'd think it would be more of a no-brainer. How many unbiased citizens actually support these things?


Maybe internet petitions aren't completely useless?......


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## ArielMT (Jan 22, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> Maybe internet petitions aren't completely useless?......



What he doesn't get is that petitions are useful for raising awareness.

What people who think petitions are all they need to do don't get is that awareness must be followed by meaningful action.

It's united action that changes the world.


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## Teal (Jan 23, 2012)

ACTA petition.
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

And the thread for ACTA.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/113858-ACTA-SOPA-extra-fuck-you?p=2828661#post2828661


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## VGmaster9 (Jan 24, 2012)

Here we go again.


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