# Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Arcturus has been unbanned because after reconsidering the situtation in which he was banned under and other circumstances that came up over the past couple of days, the administration team has come to the conclusion that he is to be unbanned.

Arcturus will be acting as a white hat for the development team as well. He will be looking for security holes and informing us of them so they can be fixed.

The administration team will be keeping a close eye on him and if he does step out of line he will be banned again according to the new rules.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

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## Thaily (Aug 17, 2006)

Has the administration considered that due to Arc's obvious untrustworthy nature he's likely to only tip you off on a few small security holes and leave the considerable ones open for the next time he gets banned for being a twat so he can get himself unbanned again in this manner?

In fact, isn't that what he's already done in the past?


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

If Arcturus or any other hacker is banned from the site, they will cause more damage. Banning does not stop them from hurting the site.

The decision was made between having constant attacks or making a compromise and having a possible ally. Arcturus was willing to become an ally and we extended the olive branch in return.

This decision was not made in haste. Please reconsider your judgement.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Thaily said:
			
		

> ...



There is certainly a possiblity that he will attempt something like that. But at least I am willing to give him one more chance. There are other reasons I am willing to do that that I shall not reveal in public channels but I assure you that we are safer now.


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## Thaily (Aug 17, 2006)

Wow, how many chances does that make?
I like how he'll hack the site to ban someone who made a single mistake but he uses up "chances" like a fanboy goes through Twinkies. 
Does everyone get the same amount of chances? Or only if they commit illegal acts?


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Does the administration team neither know about OR CARE that at the same time as 'acting as a white hat', Arc is being sued for art theft due to his redistrubition of copyrighted materials on his WTFfur site? (Giza will confirm)



I am well aware about WTFur and the other activities that Arcturus has been up to. But what does art theft have anything to do with an art site? Even if Arcturus gained access to the entire database somehow, all he would have access to is the images anyone else can get off the site. I do not support WTFur but I do not believe that helping us is in any way hindered by these other activities.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## Thaily (Aug 17, 2006)

thecrypto said:
			
		

> But what does art theft have anything to do with an art site?



You're kidding me right?
Either that or you're on crack cocaine.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Thaily said:
			
		

> Does everyone get the same amount of chances? Or only if they commit illegal acts?



As far as I know Arcturus is the only user with a permanant ban. He is getting what I think is his second chance as far as I know. I don't know the entire history but I am willing to give him one chance under this.

He is not getting any sort of special treatment, if we banned anyone for any other reason and we later figure we were wrong in our judgement or the rules change, we will unban.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> How many bad reasons do you want for allowing Arcturus to remain on furaffinity? Hacking Preyfar's administrative account? Pulling down the site and uploading retarded images on the front page? 10,000 users being affected every time he pulls off one of his script kiddy stunts?



All of the above things occured during the previous ban. As shown by that, the bans are obviously not stopping him from doing anything against the site. So as I said above. It was either removing the ban and getting a possible ally or continuing the ban and having the problems just continue to occur. I believe that this is the better response.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:******Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Wait, so this is YOUR decision alone?



No it was not my decision alone. I did make the deal but it was discussed between myself and members of the administration team before it went through.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> You just said you don't know his history and as far as you're aware, this is his second chance. I've personally lost count of the number of warnings Arcturus has received in this past.



Yes, he has been associated as the boogeyman for very long on this site. And a number of the instances that you bring up have been later been proven also not to be him either.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> This has to go down in history at the single most stupid decision ever taken by the administration of this site and by god, I hope people pull you up over it.



This decision has been discussed among the entire adminstration staff and we have decided that this is the best solution for the moment. If they want to pull me out over this I will gladly take my leave.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> To me, it's rewarding a moron for attacking the site. That's all it is. You should get someone in who knows what they're doing to plug up the security holes and stop being so damn lenient with people who don't have the interests of the site at heart.



Two parts to this. If he was a moron, would it be possible for him to attack the site? I don't think so, we have been closing things off left and right at every possiblity so it's been harder and harder to find the new holes to get in on.

We have been closing off holes whenever we find ones and we find a few every few days. It's good progress and they are being closed off. But I don't have enough time to hack the site myself and neither do other people on the staff. We can fix holes when they come to us.


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Okay, kindly cut the bullshit and admit Arc was reponsible for the latest outage of Furaffinity.


Yes, Arcturus was responsible for the latest outage of furaffinity. I have no problems admitting that.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> That said, are you PURPOSELY trying to infuriate users of this site? How can someone flagrantly spend SO MUCH of his personal time attacking the users of this site, making a mockery of it and be rewarded in this way?



I do not wish to infuriate the users of this site. I do not plan on rewarding him either. We have done nothing other than give him his username back, and even given him more work as he can no longer just hack and bring down the site, but he must inform us of how  he did it, or the ban will come down on him again. It is not a reward in the least.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> You know the guy is a criminal. You know he'll do it again. You know he has a long history of being a drooling fucktard. Preyfar told me about TWO DAYS ago the ban on Arc was permenant.



The reason he started doing it was because we did not treat him with some modicum of respect. He is not a "drooling fucktard" because otherwise he wouldn't be able to do what he has been possible of doing. And even things thought to be permanant eventually wither away. Things change.


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## Suule (Aug 17, 2006)

Please confirm/deny this: You're a friend of Arcturus.


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Thaily said:
			
		

> thecrypto said:
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I haven't forgotten about this comment. His site is being sued for copyright infringment because of users posting works by artists which do not allow that. It might have been phrased wrong but I don't believe that from anything he might gain from having an account on FurAffinity would hurt any more than any other random user, at which point that user will just have to deal with the consequences of his actions.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:********Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Suule said:
			
		

> Please confirm/deny this: You're a friend of Arcturus.



I am at best a very vauge aquaintence of his. The most we have discussed has mostly involved FurAffinity in some way. I might seem to be defending him in this thread. But this is only because this is my reasoning behind the decision. But there are absolutely no personal feelings between us that are influencing this.


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## Thaily (Aug 17, 2006)

User:	hackerdragon (190376)

hackerdragon View all userpics
View all userpics
Name:	TheCrypto
Website:	The Real Journal
Location:	Riverside, California, United States
Birthdate:	1987-03-20
Bio:	I no longer blog here. I still read my friends page from here so if you are already my friend do not de-friend me. If you want to still keep up with what I do, add [info]tcblog to your friends list


Schools:	University of California - Riverside - Riverside, CA (2001 - 2006)

Friends:	
People	105:	... nicolyrezk ...
______
http://hackerdragon.livejournal.com/profile
______

That explains a lot, with jell-o or syrup?


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## Hanazawa (Aug 17, 2006)

...But if I criticize the admins publically, I'm a troll.

Good goin', guys


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I find someone who has no respect for artist's copyright, who publically posts people's private telephone numbers in full public view to promote harassment, who spoofs people's identities, hacks free public art sites and has no respect or basic common decency in his entire body a moron, yes.



I was using moron as to refer to intellgence. You are using moron to refer to moral standards. The two do not always line up. And I have seen some people treat Arcturus in the same way you are accusing him of treating others, so should they be banned in the same way?


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## Hanazawa (Aug 17, 2006)

Being friends on livejournal is the same as being bedded and wedded, amirite?

Maybe Crypto reads Arcturus' LJ because, I dunno, he might write about furaffinity hacks in there?
Logic, it boggles the mind.


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Thaily said:
			
		

> People	105:	... nicolyrezk ...



I read his livejournal...so what? There a number of people on that list I don't consider friends, like brad or warren_ellis or dozens of others. If you look in nicolyrezk's page you will see that most everyone he is a friend of he has added back. It doesn't mean anything.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:  Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Hanazawa said:
			
		

> Being friends on livejournal is the same as being bedded and wedded, amirite?
> 
> Maybe Crypto reads Arcturus' LJ because, I dunno, he might write about furaffinity hacks in there?
> Logic, it boggles the mind.



He doesn't. It's full of apalling Transmetropolitan rip off art and /b style 'humour'.


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Hanazawa said:
			
		

> Maybe Crypto reads Arcturus' LJ because, I dunno, he might write about furaffinity hacks in there?
> Logic, it boggles the mind.



I didn't want to say this explicitly, but yes, when Arcturus was still considered the enemy, I would read his LJ because he would write about hacks in there and it was the quickest way for me to get such knowledge.


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## Hanazawa (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Hanazawa said:
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You sure do know a lot about what he writes in his LJ for someone criticizing another user for reading it


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> He doesn't. It's full of apalling Transmetropolitan rip off art and /b style 'humour'.



He doesn't under the nicolrezk account but under his previous n account which was deleted off of livejournal for attempting to sell it, he certainly did.


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## yak (Aug 17, 2006)

ok people, may i please ask you to calm down, stop this senseless dogfight and please wait while i try to explain the situation?

seriuosly, all i see now is picking on each other's words for the sake of picking. you're jumping to conclusions, attacking each other and are way underinformed of the current situation.

i'm terribly sorry i can't do it in this post, not ATM... i have no time


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Hey new question. If bringing down the site gets a permenant ban overturned, what would I get for deleting the database?
> A gold medal, a pet on the back and a fucking case of caviar?


We give a very heavy ban for deleting the database. We would be more leniant if the exploiter can show how to delete one small thing rather than blowing away all the data.

And about the downtimes, the downtime in the past 24 hours was database matainence. The one previous to that was Arcturus. No one was able to access the site in the past 24 hours because of that matainence, MySQL wasn't even running half the time. I got slightly confused as to what downtime you were referring two as days have started blending to me because of staying up far too late.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## yak (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Hey new question. If bringing down the site gets a permenant ban overturned, what would I get for deleting the database?
> 
> A gold medal, a pet on the back and a fucking case of caviar?
> 
> Please let me know, I'd like to be clear on the terms.


Kurt, can you please wait? 
What are you trying to accomplish by bashing crypto? I understang that you are reasonably upset, but can you please back down a little on the black humour?


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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> A very heavy ban? Is that more or less heavy then a PERMENANT BAN?



This is a personal opinion that is not shared by a portion of the administration team as I do not believe in any sort of permanant ban. You can have long term bans, on the order of months. But I do not believe that there should ever be a completely permanant one. After a period of time like that, either they forget the site, or they immediately do something that gets them banned again. And eventually they will get bored or willing to just be a normal user.


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## yak (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> "Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer."


well said.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting for a reasonable explaination as to why a full time hacker, script kiddy and generally nasty piece of work has had his ban overturned, apparently being rewarded for bringing down the site YET AGAIN.



Again, he is not being rewarded for bringing the site down. He is being given more work because of it if he wants to continue hacking. And will we know if he tries. If you want to blame someone for it, blame me for bringing him back once more. But I don't know all the bad blood and drama that has gone on about the person, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. I think this could work out to be for the better if everyone stops fighting him.


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## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

In keeping with the new thinking on FA, I think that stalkers and trolls should be made moderators.

After all, who has better first hand experience of disruptive behaviour than they?


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## Hanazawa (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'm spitting blood furious here. This is me getting warmed up. Trust me, I haven't fully exploded yet.
> 
> I'm still waiting for a reasonable explaination as to why a full time hacker, script kiddy and generally nasty piece of work has had his ban overturned, apparently being rewarded for bringing down the site YET AGAIN.
> 
> The reasoning "we'd rather have him on our side" doesn't wash with me. This is a gobsmackingly, meteorically retarded decision.



Chillax, ye of the dainty wingdigits. I'm sure Dragoneer sleeps during the nighttime hours in his native country (...unlike myself).

My only question to you is: why do you seem so _personally_ offended by this?


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## Hanazawa (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> In keeping with the new thinking on FA, I think that stalkers and trolls should be made moderators.



I'm sure that I_Own_Charles will be in here to gladly second that decision. :roll:


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## Suule (Aug 17, 2006)

thecrypto said:
			
		

> But I don't know all the bad blood and drama that has gone on about the person, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse.



Ignorance is bliss... or "Ignorance is power"?


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## yak (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'm spitting blood furious here. This is me getting warmed up. Trust me, I haven't fully exploded yet.


Heh, not you alone, trust me. 
Look, i'm asking you to try and understand the situation. I'm walking on the edge of the razorblade trying to explain this. I can't relay you folks the information that is considered private and is to be known among the administration only. I can't tell you names, dates, facts, events, reasons that lead to this, as they are - and express my deep frustration with all of the stuff that has been happening around FA lately that could have been easily avoided, if only people would listen to words of advice.

So i'm stuck with balancing on that said edge.... I can't talk of people behind their backs.

Anyway, i assure you that the desigion is being heavily debated behind the scenes. While i have to agree with crypto here, and do find enough reason for him getting unbanned, i also can't help but to feel irritated by the way it was executed. without going into much details, i'll say that it was done bloody ridiculous.


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## yak (Aug 17, 2006)

[align=center][size=large]OK, THIS IS BECOMING BLOODY RIDICULOUS[/size][/align]
i once again ask you to please seize this sensless posting. what are you trying to accomplish?


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## Hanazawa (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> ...You'd think they'd have been a fucking announcement. Or an attempt to ask the opinion of the users of the site first?



We've been trying to get them to contact users about _everything_ before taking action - it's still not happening. Welcome to my side of the lawn, you're welcome to it. 

And with that, I'm going to bed. Sorry for the troubles, Yak.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:     Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Sadly, I know at least one other user who's been promoted on the FA team who's a full time hacker and has been constantly warned and banned repeatedly for launching DOS attacks from inside #maleyiff on IRC.



So there is two of them? Arcturus and another?


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:******Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

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## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:       Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Dave Hyena said:
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I will bet a penny to a pound that it was this very person, should the allegations be true, who engineered the situation now, or at least was the most vocal in forwarding the cause of promoting a fellow hacker to the administration team.

Considering how Arcturus was instrumental in splitting the administration team (aside from all the hacking) last time before FA had to close for a while, It just makes no sense to let him and a friend back onto the adminstration team.

I'm sure they will do everything they can to pack more and more of their allies, or people who are sympathetic to them, into the team of people who run and maintain furaffinity.

Arcturus has had no sucess with his other sites, so now he comes back to this one to try and regain some measure of influence over it again.

And my opinion is that such can only lead to bad things.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:********Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## Calorath (Aug 17, 2006)

*The Edmund Fitzgerald*

And like it.... FA is sinking.

Pull yours heads out of your asses administration team. 

That is all.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: The Edmund Fitzgerald*

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## Calorath (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:  The Edmund Fitzgerald*



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Calorath said:
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Eh, they're all castrated.


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## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

This behavior of rewarding people for bad deeds seems to be ingrained in the IT world.

I must confess that I myself am no IT professional, but I do sometimes flick through IT weekly & the like at work and I often notice articles about how people who have made viruses or damaged other peoples computer systems are being recruited with large wage packets to work at IT security consultency companies. 

Except that you wouldn't need security consultents if you didn't make hacking such a temping prospect by the virtue of the rewards at the end of it.

At the very least, this sort of thing goes against all sense of natural justice and is a PR disaster.


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## Calorath (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> This behavior of rewarding people for bad deeds seems to be ingrained in the IT world.
> 
> I must confess that I myself am no IT professional, but I do sometimes flick through IT weekly & the like at work and I often notice articles about how people who have made viruses or damaged other peoples computer systems are being recruited with large wage packets to work at IT security consultency companies.
> 
> ...



Well, at the same time, when these hackers are hired, they're more or less tamed with money.  A fat salary would calm anyone down


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## I_Own_Charles (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Obviously you and I have a very, VERY different understanding of the word permenant.



THAT'S PROLLY CUZ YOU'RE SPELLING IT WRONG.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I think it could work out for the better if he stopped FUCKING HACKING FURAFFINITY ALL THE TIME. How's that?
> 
> ..and whilst we're at it, stop ripping off artists and illegally redistrubiting their artwork. How would that be?


If the first were only possible it would be an easy, clear cut decision. As such, the decision was made to work with Arc to help fix a bug that was causing administrative accounts to be hijacked on Fur Affinity.

Let me as you what you want to see, Kurt.

A) The admins working with Arc to help stop problems
B) People hijacking accounts and potentially damaging FA further.

Unfortunately, it's a binary choice and only one of them was a viable choice for us to make at this point. Unfortunately, in a large codebase it's possible  miss closing a hole here and there, and sometimes its hard to know where they are until you they come up against you. It can be something as simple a syntax error, typo or a problem with testing.

Luckily, in this case, next to no damage was done and were not only able to stop one exploit but implement additional securities all around (blocking open proxies, Tor, account hijacking, some others). It's not a perfect choice, but we're watching keep track of things.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: The Edmund Fitzgerald*



			
				Calorath said:
			
		

> And like it.... FA is sinking.
> 
> Pull yours heads out of your asses administration team.


=/


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## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:      Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> A) The admins working with Arc to help stop problems
> B) People hijacking accounts and potentially damaging FA further.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's a binary choice and only one of them was a viable choice for us to make at this point.



Why is it a binary choice?

That it would be, seems to assume that arcturus is the only person in the entire world who can solve security problems.


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:******Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: ******Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:******Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

When Arcturus hacks FA, what damage does he do vs. what damage could he have done.


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## nrr (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Apparently, the suggestion we pay to get a professional security coder in to fix the security holes went sailing over everyone's head. No, we have to rely on a bored script kiddy who's blackmailed the FA staff to get his account back. Fucking woopie doo.


Don't feel so bad, man.  They wouldn't take me on staff, and even Dragoneer himself said that I have integrity.  I've also gone back to writing code on a contractual basis for a living, so it isn't like I'm really incapable of doing this sort of stuff.

Last I heard, the reason I was never stuck on staff was because there'd be too many chefs in the kitchen, as it were.


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## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Apparently, the suggestion we pay to get a professional security coder in to fix the security holes...


*You may feel free to donate at any time to help us do so.*


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## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

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## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> You can NOT let a known hacker, art thief and criminal remain on this site and expect people to trust your decisions in the future.



You can not let a known idiot voice his opinion on the internets. It's illegal, wrong, immoral, and it's messing up my hairdo.

Show of hands: How many of us have been convicted of crimes?
You, over there with the marijuana conviction, does it mean you're not worth talking to, and trusting to help with a codebase? I know you graduated from Insert Here a University, but you got convicted, and stuff, you know...

Also, go ahead, define 'hacker'.
I seriously hate people who misuse words.




			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> "Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer." :evil:


What do you think they're doing? :^)



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'm spitting blood furious here. This is me getting warmed up. Trust me, I haven't fully exploded yet.


This is where I tell you to get the hell off the computer for a couple of hours.
Try out that new program I hear everyone's doing, called "Fresh Air Fixes Everyone!" All you have to do is go out the front door, stand on the sidewalk in front of your place, and take a deep breath. It does quite a bit of good -- I'd know. I pioneered the effort.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting for a reasonable explaination as to why a full time hacker, script kiddy and generally nasty piece of work has had his ban overturned, apparently being rewarded for bringing down the site YET AGAIN.
> 
> The reasoning "we'd rather have him on our side" doesn't wash with me. This is a gobsmackingly, meteorically retarded decision.


If you leave, I won't miss you.
While FurAffinity's outages have annoyed me in the past, I took the FAFE approach, and felt relief almost instantly.
Here's reasonable: Who better to work on your security holes than the ones who have found and exploited them already? They already know WHERE to look. But that makes too much sense. :^)



			
				thecrypto said:
			
		

> I think this could work out to be for the better if everyone stops fighting him.


Smartest thing said in this thread.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> ..and whilst we're at it, stop ripping off artists and illegally redistrubiting their artwork. How would that be?


If and only if the following conditions are met:
* You have a legal copy of your computer's operating system.
* All software on your computer is either freeware, open source and free for use, commercial software to which you legitemately have licensed.
* All music on your computer, other than the sample music offered with media players installed, is legitemately purchased or downloaded (CD purchase, Purchases from iTMS / Magnatune / Others, downloads from Jamendo, etc)
* All images on your computer are legally obtained (either via ongoing paid subscriptions to various art sites, or downloads from free art sites such as the aforementioned Furaffinity and its ilk)
... then you are not a hypocrite, else Pot calls Kettle Black.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> As of and when Arcturus starts ACTING like a human being, I'll start thinking of him as one.


I stopped thinking of you as human when you consistently and insistently started on your anti-Arcturus rant.
However, I'll give you credit: you at least stuck to your word.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:******** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> You're REWARDING moronity.
> 
> You're given out the message that you can act ANY WAY YOU LIKE on furaffinity, because the admins are too shit scared of a script kiddy with too much time on his hands.


Please keep the discussion civil.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

Why exactly was it decided to opt for Arcturus, someone who has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot be trusted, over Nrr?

People are even offering up money to hire a professional.

The mind boggles.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> lolcox said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, you ARE stupid.

lolcox is none other than ~Xial.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

Holster those wingdigits pardner'. You need to stop hating, it'll be the death of you one day, you'll be sitting on the toilet and get pissed off about something and then get a heart attack.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:********Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I don't suppose it makes much difference either way, as the message you're sending out is that I can behave any way I wish, as long as I remember to hack the site constantly after I've received a ban.
> 
> I swear the entire FA staff are having one gigantic brain fart.



You might also need to be a good programmer, and know a lot about FA's code, as well as where the holes are, but if you do accomplish this quest can we hate and demonize you as much as Arc? Pretty Please?

edited for quote weiner...


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:          Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				facek said:
			
		

> You might also need to be a good programmer, and know a lot about FA's code, as well as where the holes are, but if you do accomplish this quest can we hate and demonize you as much as Arc? Pretty Please?



Nrr offered his services to FA, and I doubt he would have been a controversial choice in the same way as this one.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> facek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't believe they said Arc was coding, he's just going to hack the site and look for holes, not fix them.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:            Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				facek said:
			
		

> I don't believe they said Arc was coding, he's just going to hack the site and look for holes, not fix them.



He has broken into FA, Brought it down for a time when he left to set up artplz, changed peoples C.V's hosted on his webspace so they pointed to porn and set up sites expressly for the posting of artists work, without their permission, and against their will in many cases.

Based on such a coloured history, I'd say that he cannot be trusted to do this.

He's hacked FA before and there is nothing to stop him not telling anyone about some hole somewhere and leaving it that he may use it one day.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: **********Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 17, 2006)

This thread is snowballing so fast I can barely keep up with it.  First off, let me say that for all of the furries who are prone to logical fallacies (you KNOW who you are, as I've lectured you either implicitly or explicitly on the subject before), this post is directed at you guys.  I am NOT defending any of arcturus's actions in this post.  Let that also be clear.

This thread is plagued with consistent non-sequiturs and instances of magical post-hoc thinking, and it makes me sick.  Crypto essentially said which seems to be the basis of what the LOGICAL argument is, here -- arcturus's skill as a hacker is put to BETTER use helping the site than it is hindering it.  Our feelings towards arcturus have NO bearing regarding that skill, and should not be used as a sole factor in determining his usefulness as a debugger.  In fact, if ANYONE in real life based their HR descisions on how they personally felt about someone that doesn't hinder that person's ability to do the job, there wouldn't be very many jobs to go around.  Nevermind the fact that if you fired someone based on those premises, you'd be _breaking the f---ing law_.  

About the time I threw my hands up and said "that's it, they're all acting like a bunch of women on permanent pms patrol" was when crypto was questioned on how he was friends with arcturus.  WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THAT MATTER TO ANYONE OTHER THAN PEOPLE DRIVEN BY EMOTION?  This is not an acceptable professional standard of judgement, but luckily, the person who made that statement is in no position to determine the policy for anything.

Part of the agreement I made to have myself unbanned is to put limits on the amount of caustic posts I make regarding individuals, therefore I have tried to avoid naming names and letting their irrational actions speak for themselves.  Hopefully, I don't need to throw my two cents into this topic any further before the discussion is closed, but it seems to me that the more emotional (and less logical) people get, the louder and more annoying they must yell in order to have the same effectiveness at getting their point across.

In conclusion, this is what reading this thread sounded like to me:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/foxes.php


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

This thread is ridiculous. It's not even funny.

That's why,

HI, I'M BARRY SCOTT.

I'm going to introduce you to FAFE today.

First: get that biscuit out of your mouth. [attachment=319]
Next, head out the door. Take a deep breath. You should feel much like this gentleman does after you've done so. [attachment=320]
See his "Ahhhh!" of relief?

It's much better than the AHHHH! of screaming furries, now, isn't it?


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Arcturus created fake AIM accounts and email addresses in your name and spoofed your identity.
> 
> You are the very last person I would have expected to come here and defend him, but thank heavens, at least you're not trying to insult us by defending his integrity.



This is news to me!


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> facek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I request verification as to the flavor and density of this sauce's proof.
Else, I will assume you're talkin' out your neck again.

//Xial


----------



## Visimar (Aug 17, 2006)

Jeez, KurtBatz...you simply ask about why Arc was unbanned, and when someone gave you an answer you totally spaz out about it. Just chill out and let the administration team deal with this. After all, this is THEIR business, not yours.

Sometimes, your worst enemy can become your best friend. This might prove to be true in this case. However, since this is getting somewhat out of hand, I think this thread needs to be locked. =/


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Arcturus created fake AIM accounts and email addresses in your name and spoofed your identity.
> 
> You are the very last person I would have expected to come here and defend him, but thank heavens, at least you're not trying to insult us by defending his integrity.



I'm saying, what he alledgedly did to me has absolutely no bearing on his ability to fix site bugs on FA.  It's elementary logic, sir.  They even have a name for the mistake of associating the two.  It's called a non-sequitur.

I'm not disputing arc's integrity or lack thereof, but as just about every admin who's posted in this thread has already stated, the benefits outweigh the risks -- and integrity or not, realistically the situation is much, much better with FA not being arc's rival.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

nobuyuki said:
			
		

> I'm saying, what he alledgedly did to me has absolutely no bearing on his ability to fix site bugs on FA.



That is itself a straw man because this is about more than simple programming ability.

If Arcturus has spoofed your identity that means he is a liar.

Now, would you trust a liar to tell you the truth about bugs which might allow him to hijack admin accounts or the like?

Particulaly if this liar has a past history of hacking and hijacking the site in question?

You don't set a glutton to guard the pantry.



			
				IceDragonVisy said:
			
		

> this is THEIR business, not yours.



We are all users of the site, we all contribute in some way do we not? 

There is no FA without the users, for there is no community.

Every user has a stake in FA and is, in my opinion, entitled to make their opinions on matters affecting FA known.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Every user has a stake in FA and is, in my opinion, entitled to make their opinions on matters affecting FA known.



This is understandable, and I agree with you on this matter.

However, I have this deep-rooted vibe that says that at least one person on this thread is speaking his opinion far too vehemently to be taken seriously. 
It's not you, by the way.

Memo to self: greasemonkey script to replace his posts with "tl;dr, typical furry drivel"
... after I go get my car hacked.


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> IceDragonVisy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more on this, and for the record I'm stating that so in the future, people understand why one of my pet peeves is trying to use an appeal to authority in order to close down the conversation.  (ie:  "the admins know what's best for the site, so why are you questioning them?")


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

Yeah Dave, i don't think playing the "FA is a community, everyone should have a say" card has worked in the past for any situation, it most certainly won't work now.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'll confirm that the spoof messaging was to me. He messaged me as my own AIM name (with one letter changed) and as Nobuyuki with one letter changed. Did a utterly craptastic job of covering his tracks too.



Okay, less civil approach GET:
*PROOF OR GTFO.*


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'll confirm that the spoof messaging was to me. He messaged me as my own AIM name (with one letter changed) and as Nobuyuki with one letter changed. Did a utterly craptastic job of covering his tracks too.



Do you have proof of these claims? Otherwise I declare bovine feces!


----------



## Xax (Aug 17, 2006)

You people, I go to sleep for a few hours and look what happens.

So basically Arc got unbanned after being permabanned. Because it's not like /that's/ ever happened before on FA, or anything. As I think I've stated in other posts previously, basically, if the evil l33t hax0rs (basically, 'us' or as we are apparently known to a good portion of the user base, "Arc's evil troll fanclub") really wanted to break the site, they could do it regardless of being banned or not banned. None of us, possibly excepting Arc himself, really have the motive to do so. And now all y'all are yelling at the admin team for possibly giving Arc some reason to actually help the team instead of the former "if you ever do anything that could possibly be miscontrued as hacking or if you're a convenient scapegoat, you'll get permabanned for a week", which really, I liked much less.

(and as a counter-offer to that $100 for Arc bannage, I'll say I'll donate $100 if this thread gets to 10 pages without getting locked*. I MEAN, WHILE WE'RE MAKING DOMATION ULTIMATUMS AND ALL, DANCE FOR YOUR MONEY FA TEAM, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING STUPID OR HUMILIATING ABOUT SAYING HOW YOU THINK YOU CAN BUY OUT THE FA TEAM TO ADVANCE YOUR OWN AGENDA)

((I AM OBVIOUSLY BEING SARCASTIC HERE, OKAY. I'll probably end up mailing Jheryn money once I can afford it anyway, so))


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:**** Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

If this thread continues to spiral downward I will close it. I don't mind discussion of what happened and why, but people need to do so rationally. Do NOT put emotion first. If you can't write without flying off the handle I suggest you reconsider posting, take a break, come back and writer with a clearer conscious.

Look, when I unbanned Arc I knew this was going to be an unpopular decision. That's even how I phrased it to the administrative team. But, given the issues, it may not have been the popular decision, but it was the right one.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> As I said, we were expecting the trolls two or three hours earlier. You're far, far too late.
> 
> In fact, you're a bastard, because you've lost me a bet on the troll response time. Damn it.



I'm sorry, but this is just as stupid as stupid can get, asking for proof of an outrageous claim is trolling?! You have a seriously distorted dictionary in your noggin.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Log file do you okay?



Yeah, let's see it.


----------



## Xax (Aug 17, 2006)

p.s., someone in IRC better be saving this thread.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> As I said, we were expecting the trolls two or three hours earlier. You're far, far too late.
> 
> In fact, you're a bastard, because you've lost me a bet on the troll response time. Damn it.


Good. While you are hemorrhaging cash, do so into the FurAffinity coffers.

Also, if I'm a troll, I'm doing a shitty job at it.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

Hmmm ...

First off why are there Black people in this thread? They don't exist. 

This thread is also out of control, I wish people would stick to facts more often than wild accusations, but seeing how many times this has been ignored I should stop being surprised. 

There have been a few reasonable posts about this, and sadly what makes me sad about the whole thing is that it is the *Coders* making the most level headed replies in the matter and they don't even have to, since they need to spend more time on the site.

A lot of the accusations are just similar to that thread in General Discussion titled _Grapevine_.

While I understand the decision has been made by the admins, this is just another situation that has been handled poorly.

FA has the potential of being a great site, but it's always muddled so badly...sigh.


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 17, 2006)

I'd like to see a link to that log, myself.  Considering how me and arc don't see eye to eye on much anymore, he'd have no reason not to tell the truth if I confronted him asking if that was him spoofing my identity.  If his integrity mattered personally to either me or him, he WOULD have a reason to lie in order to preserve a false sense of trust, but as it stands, arc's public credibility is in the gutter so really he has no reason not to tell the truth about these things.  That being said, I heard him say that he was not the one spoofing my identity.

Therefore, I'd like to know what kind of twisted individual -was- spoofing my identity, because obviously they have something personal against me.  Their writing style (or what they know) may become apparant to their identity with a log.


----------



## I_Own_Charles (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I_Own_Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMAO


PLEASE KEEP POSTING YOU ARE CAUSING US ALL TO SHIT OUR BABYFUR DIAPERS WITH LAUGHTER.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:****Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*

.


----------



## Mr Cullen (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> facek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed! NRR has indeed offered countless times to help out here at FA, but if I remember, someone told me that they weren't willing to let him help because Dragoneer thought that he was bosom buddies with arc or something and was going to exploit FA further.

Personally I would have prefered NRR to Arcturus as I don't approve of his behaviour in the past towards the site nor of what I've read on this topic about his activities elsewhere. However, the blokes never done any harm by me and hasn't affected me directly nor have I seen exactly what he's done on this other site he's been stealing art on. So as much as I disaprove, theres really bugger all I can do about it.

The staff decision is final.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Don't think there's much more to be said Dragoneer. Lock it if you like. I'm bitterly disappointed in you and the entire FA staff and you're not prepared to listen to common sense, so what more can anyone do?
> 
> It's a nail in the coffin for this site and it's the stupidest decision you guys have ever made, but hey, it's your perogative to fuck up once in a while.



I want that log before this thread is locked, don't try to get out of it.


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 17, 2006)

log plz


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

facek said:
			
		

> I want that log before this thread is locked, don't try to get out of it.



You know he has to get the chicken pregnant, wait for the egg to be laid, hatched, and grow into a beautiful rooster to get the log, right?


Too bad a bull got at the egg overnight, hollowed it out, and pumped it full of bovine feces.

I feel sorry for that hen when the egg hatches.


----------



## Emerson (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:       Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> PLEASE KEEP POSTING YOU ARE CAUSING US ALL TO SHIT OUR BABYFUR DIAPERS WITH LAUGHTER.



Hey, woah. Keep your diapers to yourself!


----------



## Emerson (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:            Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Mr Cullen said:
			
		

> Agreed! NRR has indeed offered countless times to help out here at FA, but if I remember, someone told me that they weren't willing to let him help because Dragoneer thought that he was bosom buddies with arc or something and was going to exploit FA further.
> 
> Personally I would have prefered NRR to Arcturus as I don't approve of his behaviour in the past towards the site nor of what I've read on this topic about his activities elsewhere. However, the blokes never done any harm by me and hasn't affected me directly nor have I seen exactly what he's done on this other site he's been stealing art on. So as much as I disaprove, theres really bugger all I can do about it.
> 
> The staff decision is final.



Ditto. I don't know Arc personally nor do I have grief with him, but considering his actions in the past I think putting him in a position like this on FA is plain old stupid. That's like putting a burglar in your house to see how good your security system is.

So, put me down on the list of folks who call foul on this decision.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

I understand that the admins want to lock a thread, however, can one of the admins logically explain to me why the below remarks are not bannable offenses when people have said much less and WERE banned?

I thought EVERYONE should have been playing by the rules, these are obvious attacks to flame and friend or not I don't see why this is different especially on a public forum.

While Kurtz and company have a right to be upset, these remarks are MORE than unecessary, especially when they obviously have access to make those remarks to administration in private.



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Then why did the furaffinity staff feel the need to LIE and blame the downtime on * cough * site upgrades and * cough * backups?
> 
> We're not idiots. Really we're not.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that if the administrators are being stupid enough to reward his behaviour with a ban overturn NOW, it's only a short step away from upgrading him to a moderator or administrator.
> 
> After all, this is the most ridiculously fucking stupid thing I've ever seen the FA staff do, so it's only a short step away.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I've got a proposal.
> 
> Reverse this STUPID FUCKING MORONIC decision to allow Arc back onto the site and I will personally donate £100 towards you getting in a professional coder to iron the security holes out of FA.





			
				Calorath said:
			
		

> And like it.... FA is sinking.
> 
> Pull yours heads out of your asses administration team.
> 
> That is all.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> You know things are pretty fucking desperate when they start employing the actual hackers and script kiddies to white-hat the site.
> 
> Arc must have his cock in his hand right now, getting no end of jollies over the whopping stupidity of the FA administration team.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Actually, I've got a SECOND suggestion. On top of the one where I suggested hiring a professional coder to fix the problems with the site.
> 
> It's called 'calling up Layertech, his ISP and REPORTING the little cunt, the next time he tampers with the site'. It's called hacking, it's illegal and you are under NO obligation to put up with it.
> 
> ..and Calorath is right. For christs sake, the FA team need to grow some testicles.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Comedically, I've always been one of furaffinity's staunchest supporters. I just never thought the FA staff would be capable of this dizzying level of dumb.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Don't think there's much more to be said Dragoneer. Lock it if you like. I'm bitterly disappointed in you and the entire FA staff and you're not prepared to listen to common sense, so what more can anyone do?
> 
> It's a nail in the coffin for this site and it's the stupidest decision you guys have ever made, but hey, it's your perogative to fuck up once in a while.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> I understand that the admins want to lock a thread, however, can one of the admins logically explain to me why the below remarks are not bannable offenses when people have said much less and WERE banned?
> 
> I thought EVERYONE should have been playing by the rules, these are obvious attacks to flame and friend or not I don't see why this is different especially on a public forum.
> 
> ...


Fellow person of obvious African descent, I do believe you have omitted some comments that were quite visibly over the line.

Here, allow me to assist you:



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Amen! I also think paedophiles should be made Cub leaders. After all, noone knows a kiddy diddler, like a fellow kiddy diller.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> If the FA staff go over people's heads like this, it will piss EVERYONE off. Clearly you're not happy with the decision either.
> 
> I think a lot of this boils down to a hippy idea that Arc will 'change his ways' if he's 'respected' more in the future. The fact that he's come back onto the site, with a 'pools closed' icon - referring to the recent hack on the FA site should speak volumes. The very, very first thing he's done on being allowed back onto the site is to use a new icon to rip the piss.
> 
> HELLO PEOPLE. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FUCKING COFFEE.





			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> If he did anything overtly damaging because he'd have about 100,000 people wanting to kill him and he's dumb enough to not even attempt to cover his tracks. _Everyone knows his home address, his ISP, his real life name, everything. He's a COMPLETE and TOTAL pussy._ Has this failed to sink in yet?  :roll:



I may only hope that I have been of tremendous service to you, my fellow person of obvious African descent.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I'm bitterly disappointed in you and the entire FA staff and you're not prepared to listen to common sense, so what more can anyone do?
> 
> It's a nail in the coffin for this site and it's the stupidest decision you guys have ever made, but hey, it's your perogative to fuck up once in a while.


I am sorry, but I we don't make decisions to win your approval. We do so to assist the community as a whole, and while I'd like for you to understand the "why" and the "reason"  you have a fiery bias towards Arcturus and I could convince you that we honestly know what we are doing even with all the facts I could present to you.

Continue your to should "FA is dying" and insult us without merit. We'll continue to improve and build upon the site.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> KurtBatz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dragoneer, since you're an admin here, can you kindly answer my question a few posts above you?

Thanks for your time.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:      Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> I am sorry, but I we don't make decisions to win your approval. We do so to assist the community as a whole, and while I'd like for you to understand the "why" and the "reason"  you have a fiery bias towards Arcturus and I could convince you that we honestly know what we are doing even with all the facts I could present to you.
> 
> Continue your to should "FA is dying" and insult us without merit. We'll continue to improve and build upon the site.



If you have a moment, Why is it a binary choice that is being faced here?

I can't understand why the choice seems to be between having FA hacked or having arcturus on staff.

It's like if someone asks you if you would like a kick in the face or a punch in the balls, when most people would rather have neither.


----------



## Xax (Aug 17, 2006)

I would be happier if everyone from every viewpoint stopped asking the admins to ban other people for being mean. Just, y'know, saying.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> I can't understand why the choice seems to be between having FA hacked or having arcturus on staff.


'
Arcturus is not on staff. We're not that stupid.


----------



## lolcox (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> Dragoneer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd rather the punch to the balls.
I've had enough attacks there to be used to it.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> I understand that the admins want to lock a thread, however, can one of the admins logically explain to me why the below remarks are not bannable offenses when people have said much less and WERE banned?
> 
> I thought EVERYONE should have been playing by the rules, these are obvious attacks to flame and friend or not I don't see why this is different especially on a public forum.
> 
> While Kurtz and company have a right to be upset, these remarks are MORE than unecessary, especially when they obviously have access to make those remarks to administration in private.


Because I am handling these issues from work and, while it make come as a shock to some people, I put my work and life before FA.

I do not discussion action taken between FA and its users unless there is truly a need to do so. I am handling everything in this thread as fast as I can. Unfortunately, that's between gaps at work.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:        Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Dave Hyena said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That still doesn't answer why it's a binary choice between having arcturus as part of the FA team or being hacked.

So he hasn't been given admin or moderator powers, but he is still acting under the auspices of (and with the blessing of) certain members of the admin & coding team. That makes him part of the group of people who are developing FA. A member of the team.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> That still doesn't answer why it's a binary choice between having arcturus as part of the FA team or being hacked.
> 
> So he hasn't been given admin or moderator powers, but he is still acting under the auspices of (and with the blessing of) certain members of the admin & coding team. That makes him part of the group of people who are developing FA. A member of the team.


Given the exploit that was closed it was a priority for us to fix it, Arc knew it... and before he divulged the information he had a few simple requests. We decided to work with him to fix the issue.

It was not an issue I wanted to have around.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Arshes Nei said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I understand, perhaps you can enlist the aid of staff members so you don't have to do this alone?


----------



## I_Own_Charles (Aug 17, 2006)

Emerson said:
			
		

> I_Own_Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In reference to that one guy's horrid experience letting a babyfur sit in the back of his car and shit himself, and also the general dislike of diaper-wearing babyfurs in these forums.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:          Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> Given the exploit that was closed it was a priority for us to fix it, Arc knew it... and before he divulged the information he had a few simple requests.



In my opinion, that essentially constitutes blackmail.

Arcturus has one solution to a problem, so he refuses to share it unless his demands are met. Which just happen to be unbanning him and making him part of the FA team.

I think it's a real cave in to not only give in the demands of a perma-banned hacker but to actually bring him back and place him on staff. 

I believe that it makes the FA team look weak and unable to keep control on even on their homeground.

My opinion is that it's grossly unfair and insulting to those willing people who have been refused a place on staff.

What is to stop him making more demands in the future? 

What is to stop other people making demands?

I don't trust the FA team to keep him or others under control because they have already capitulated to his demands in the first place.

Appeasement is a slippery slope but now the precedent has been set that hackers must have their demands met, and if they don't, the whole site will come tumbling down.

In my view, this might have been one way of solving a single security problem, but it has created far more than it has solved.


----------



## Emerson (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:         Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> Emerson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, I forgot to add [/joke] there.


----------



## facek (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena, do you just not comprehend what is going on at all?

ARCUTURS IS NOT ON STAFF

He is a regular member like you and me, and will point out holes when he finds them.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:  Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				facek said:
			
		

> Dave Hyena, do you just not comprehend what is going on at all?
> 
> ARCUTURS IS NOT ON STAFF
> 
> He is a regular member like you and me, and will point out holes when he finds them.



TheCrypto declared that Arcturus was acting as a "white hat" for the development team. Which would mean he is allegedly helping develop the site. Which would mean he was part of the development team.


----------



## thecrypto (Aug 17, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> TheCrypto declared that Arcturus was acting as a "white hat" for the development team. Which would mean he is allegedly helping develop the site. Which would mean he was part of the development team.



Verix is also a white hat for the site and he isnot a member of the development team. All he does is report holes and we deal with them. It give either of them no increased access to the site.


----------



## Ryuusei (Aug 17, 2006)

Oh for fuck's sake...
The last thing you need to do on the internets is take America's stance on terrorist organizations and apply it to people you don't like.

Yes, yes, FA had a big split up. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Haven't you worked with an asshole you hated? The fact is sometimes you have to work with someone you hate to accomplish something for the better. It's called diplomacy.

It's either that or scurrying off like a macro cat.
Whoops, I meant gigantic pussy. I always get those two confused.


----------



## I_Own_Charles (Aug 17, 2006)

I AM UNDER THE IMPRESSION HERE THAT NO ONE HAS SEEN THAT ONE MOVIE WITH TOM HANKS AND UH I THINK IT'S LEONARDO DICAPRIO IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

YOU KNOW, THE ONE WHERE THE ONE GUY IS A CON ARTIST STEALING ALL THIS MONEY AND THE OTHER GUY IS A COP TRYING TO CATCH HIM?

'CATCH ME IF YOU CAN', METHINKS.

ANYWAYS, AT THE END OF THE MOVIE THE BAD GUY IS ENLISTED BY THE COPS TO TEACH THEM HOW TO SPOT FAKE CHECKS/MONEY BECAUSE HE WAS SO DAMN GOOD AT IT HIMSELF.

IT WAS A GOOD MOVIE, I GIVE IT FIVE STARS. UNLIKE THIS THREAD, I GIVE IT TWO STARS, MAYBE. AND AN ASSTON OF CAPSLOCK.


----------



## wut (Aug 17, 2006)

All things require an asston of caps lock.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:    Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				thecrypto said:
			
		

> Verix is also a white hat for the site and he isnot a member of the development team. All he does is report holes and we deal with them. It give either of them no increased access to the site.



As I've said, he doesn't need to be given increased acess to part of the team. I've made my opinion clear.

However, all this arguing over whether or not he is a member of the team still ignores the issue that Arcturus was effectively allowed to blackmail his way back onto FA by witholding infomation about how to fix a bug, and certain members of the FA team capitulated to his demands, instead of seeking out some other way to fix it.

Surely there must have been a better way to get a hole fixed than to allowed a perma-banned user who has hacked the site, demonstrated an extremly destructive nature and who has (in my opinion) proven himself unable to work with others through the destruction of the old FA & artplz, back on?

There must be other people who are willing to work as bug locaters right?

But of course they don't have an extremely vocal and agressive group of people who push their cause.  Neither do they attempt to hold FA to ransom over the promise of a security flaw.

My opinion is that it really does make the FA team look so feeble and weak, unable to even keep banned users banned. (except when they support FA and are willing to donate money to it!)

It makes an absolute mockery of FA's policy on how people should behave, since this demonstrates that people can engage in the worst behavior possible, and still get away with it.

Now, every single person who gets banned or does something bad can point to Arcturus and demand the same lenient treatment.


----------



## Myr (Aug 17, 2006)

Guildmaster Van said:
			
		

> [. . .]


As the other admins and mods have already stated, behave and knock off the crude remarks. Make another post like that and you'll be finding yourself on Read-only mode like many other people in this thread.


----------



## Whiptail (Aug 17, 2006)

Isn't about time this thread was locked already?

Oh well, may as well get a post in before it is.

I, for one, have never heard of this so-called boogyman that did lots of naughty things.

He may of done bad things, but shouldnt we offer him the chance to change his ways?

You'd be surprised at how many drug addiction advisors were addicts themselves or how many secrurity experts were theives.  If this guy is a good hacker, then he's the best guy for finding possible flaws in the system.

True, this places him in a place where he *COULD* take advantage, but he's fully aware of the penalties if he does.  We should at least give him a chance to redeem himself.

KurtBatz is right to be creating a fuss about this, but Kurt always sticks to his guns like super strength ACME glue, dispite attempt to persuade him otherwise.


----------



## Dragoneer (Aug 17, 2006)

Myr said:
			
		

> Guildmaster Van said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I happen to agree with Guilmaster Van's comment.


----------



## Myr (Aug 17, 2006)

Anyone else posting in this thread, if you find yourself on read-only mode it will last for the rest of the night. It is not a ban, but it is an order to take a break and relax. People will line up and duke it out on both sides of this issue and nobody wants to close the thread because this is a legitimate discussion that the admins have even had behind the scenes.

There have been plenty of warnings to keep this discussion calm and civil. Keep it on subject, don't spam garbage, and respect each others' differing opinions. If you find yourself with a red name and set to read-only you probably didn't do the above and take a break for the rest of the night. Your account will be free to write again tomorrow.



			
				Dragoneer said:
			
		

> I happen to agree with Guilmaster Van's comment.


So do I and he's right on the money with his message. I'm targetting the composition and word choice. That's all.


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm intrigued.  This thread must be a sort of testing grounds for a new policy regarding heated debates.  Off-topic:  will we be seeing a public guidelines to which users are being set in read-only mode?  It is definately more preferable to the boolean nature of "ban or no ban" of days passed.


----------



## Myr (Aug 17, 2006)

OT:





			
				nobuyuki said:
			
		

> I'm intrigued.  This thread must be a sort of testing grounds for a new policy regarding heated debates.  Off-topic:  will we be seeing a public guidelines to which users are being set in read-only mode?  It is definately more preferable to the boolean nature of "ban or no ban" of days passed.


You're about to get a PM, but yeah, I was trying to test out read-only to be that buffer between regular use and banning. I wanted to expand it to limit people's access to certain forums or even threads while experimenting with it. It's less harsh than a ban, or so I think.


----------



## Evol (Aug 17, 2006)

I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> I AM UNDER THE IMPRESSION HERE THAT NO ONE HAS SEEN THAT ONE MOVIE WITH TOM HANKS AND UH I THINK IT'S LEONARDO DICAPRIO IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.
> 
> YOU KNOW, THE ONE WHERE THE ONE GUY IS A CON ARTIST STEALING ALL THIS MONEY AND THE OTHER GUY IS A COP TRYING TO CATCH HIM?
> 
> ...



+fav +watch


----------



## Wolfblade (Aug 17, 2006)

You guys have a supporter.

He wants you all to succeed.

He says you shouldn't give in to blackmail from the individual who more than anything else, represents the largest threat to the continued enjoyment an prosperity of this site and community.

He offers a hundred bucks in a desparate attempt to show you that there are MORE than TWO options here.

So you ban him.

Where you have allowed absolutely disgusting amounts of bashing and flaming against you from people who only want to see this whole thing fail, you ban someone offering to throw money at you to give you an alternative to accepting into the fold someone so absolutely undeniably destructive to this community.

Ain't that a kick in the teeth, and a wonderful message to the community?

Key individuals are allowed to repeatedly and almost constantly cover this community with a layer of low-key hostility and general nastiness. So long as the members of your community simply take the abuse, you see no reason to step in and take action to promote any sort of enjoyable community atmosphere for your peaceful members, instead leaving it open and fun for those who just like ripping on other people and are only "playing around."

You do nothing to defend your users from this: yet when they defend themself or each other, and it becomes a fight, THEN it is something you step into, and you punish both sides, both aggressor and defender.

Now, KurtBatz speaks up to criticise a move you've made. You let some users criticise you endlessly to the point where it is hard to believe they have any interest in this site's well-being, and they're still here. But you don't take no guff from someone who genuinely wants to help but calls you on a bad move.

Might I ask why, please?

Especially since everyone who wasn't just de-adminned seemed to be so damn against ANY sort of banning? But then that's a whole other bag of wtf.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 17, 2006)

Ahh I see so the offensive language here is ok, only if the person is insulting but "supporting".

I'm sorry but that's a bit hypocritical aside from the situation.

I'm sorry but I also called admins on bad moves, but I have the tact not to use that kind of language, and at least do so with a bit more respect.

It's not about whether or not I personally agree with the situation, but Kurtbatz (and a couple others) should have handled it better.


----------



## Silverdragon00 (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE:  Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Kurtbatz (and a couple others) should have handled it better.



that is a huge understatement! i myself see both sides and i really don't have a very strong opinion of either. However, i say if arcturus fucks up once more, his ass is gone!


----------



## beachfox (Aug 17, 2006)

Dragoneer said:
			
		

> If this thread continues to spiral downward I will close it. I don't mind discussion of what happened and why, but people need to do so rationally. Do NOT put emotion first. If you can't write without flying off the handle I suggest you reconsider posting, take a break, come back and writer with a clearer conscious.
> 
> Look, when I unbanned Arc I knew this was going to be an unpopular decision. That's even how I phrased it to the administrative team. But, given the issues, it may not have been the popular decision, but it was the right one.



I'm not deeply involved in furry politics, and I admit that I'm not overly familiar with a lot of what's going on with this, but just as a surface observation, letting someone who is a known hacker of the site and abuser of the site in as anything other then a simple user is a Bad Bad capital B Bad Idea.

If nothing else, you're rewarded and validating his behavior, which is precisely the wrong thing to do. At best, it's a case of poor judgement, at worse, one of those "uncovered holes" brings down this site.

Again.

Seriously, this is F'ed up. When the feds bring in hackers to help them track down criminals, they're able to hold the threat of Jail Time and Felony Convictions and even Treason over their heads to keep them in line.

I doubt Arcturus has that much to keep him behaving...

Again, this is an Admin decision, not a user one, but honestly. I hope you're right about this. Personally, all my warning bells are going off full blast.


----------



## Kattywampus (Aug 17, 2006)

Guildmaster Van said:
			
		

> It's either that or scurrying off like a macro cat.
> Whoops, I meant gigantic pussy. I always get those two confused.



Hey!  I resemble that remark!  :x


----------



## I_Own_Charles (Aug 18, 2006)

Emerson said:
			
		

> Sorry, I forgot to add [/joke] there.



No no, I knew you were joking. I was just keeping in mind the countless others who...wouldn't.


----------



## WolfeByte (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:  The Edmund Fitzgerald*



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Arc must have his cock in his hand right now, getting no end of jollies over the whopping stupidity of the FA administration team.



I bet he gets quite a rise over folks making such a huge fuss over him too...  What, three threads and 200+ posts in one evening?  That's like a medieval feast to an attention whore.  Nice work, folks.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:** The Edmund Fitzgerald*

.


----------



## Swampwulf (Aug 18, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> KurtBatz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are always two of them,  a Master and his Padawan.


----------



## kitetsu (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:    The Edmund Fitzgerald*



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Birds fly. Snakes slither. Arc shit-stirs. It's the way of things.



Elaborate.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:**** The Edmund Fitzgerald*

.


----------



## kitetsu (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:      The Edmund Fitzgerald*



			
				KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Don't mean to sound rude here, but if I have to elaborate, then you've either skimmed over or ignored all the parts about him hacking administration accounts and using them to ban Dark Nekogami two days ago.
> 
> Or the part where I mentioned he's likely still using exploits, as per the 'still posting in my journal despite being blocked thing'
> 
> Would you like me to elaborate further on how Arcturus draws attention to himself?



Don't repeat concrete facts. Especially if you're going to repeat it to a ghost.

Explain to me why you still harbor a personal grudge against him.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:****** The Edmund Fitzgerald*

.


----------



## Mr Cullen (Aug 18, 2006)

And yet, at the start of the thread you brought up his actions on other sites. As much as such behaviour disgusts me, His Actions on FA are to do with FA and his actions on other sites are for the other sites in question to deal with themselves, whether he works the strings or not.

I disagree with his unbanning and being made a "white hat" but all the same the staff seem to think it will benefit them because they won't get anymore trouble from him. It doesn't stop other hackers seeing what they can attempt though. 'm not going to start on some "HACKERS ARE EVERYWHERE" conspiracy shite, but if Arc can exploit the site, someone else could just have easily done it and been in the same position arc is instead. Would anyone who has strong personal feelings against arc, agree to someone else being a white hat instead of arc if they had done similar things?

I want to get the niggling feeling that all this argument is simply because "It's Arcturus" out of my head. 

I'm not trying to get into some long winded discussion or a mud slinging match. Just a simple explanation.


----------



## dave hyena (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:  Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				Mr Cullen said:
			
		

> And yet, at the start of the thread you brought up his actions on other sites. As much as such behaviour disgusts me, His Actions on FA are to do with FA and his actions on other sites are for the other sites in question to deal with themselves, whether he works the strings or not.



My opinion is that his actions on other sites just go add weight to his perma-banning here. Bans are removed when people have changed, but a perma-ban indicates that this person is never going to change their behavior. And given Arcturus's behavior on other sites, I think that view is perfectly justifed.

It's not about hating arcturus or personal grudges, It's about whether or not he is going to change his attitude and behavior towards FA, and based on the evidence, I'd say not.

Why should FA take on someone who has time and time again proved themselves to be untrustworthy and downright desctructive, when people are prepared to pay for a trustworthy professional white hat to go over the site?


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 18, 2006)

To be quite honest here, the people arguing over the fact that he is unbanned aren't exactly repeating credible information either. Example, instead of admitting there was a typo in putting in a block, there is claim that it was an exploit. 

I don't agree with the unbanning, but the fact is it doesn't help to present a point when you can't get the facts straight either, or worse, lie about them and twist things. It doesn't make it any better either.


----------



## Emerson (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:           Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> Emerson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just do what I do: Point and laugh when they take it too seriously.


----------



## I_Own_Charles (Aug 18, 2006)

Evol said:
			
		

> +fav +watch



DO IT ON MY FA ACCOUNT TOO OKAY LINKS BELOW.


----------



## I_Own_Charles (Aug 18, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Reverse this STUPID FUCKING MORONIC decision to allow Arc back onto the site and I will personally donate £100 towards you getting in a professional coder to iron the security holes out of FA.



£100? What is that, like, $50? You think a professional coder will jump on the opportunity to help a bunch of fetish-freak furries with their little drama-tastic frequently broken art site for $50?

I bet you're thinking of throwing in a little fursuiting yiff on the side but uh...not everyone is into that sort of thing!


----------



## wut (Aug 18, 2006)

I_Own_Charles said:
			
		

> KurtBatz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



£1 = ~$1.80

100-200 would pay for a coder for...maybe 2 hours at tops.


----------



## yak (Aug 18, 2006)

hey, that's my monthly wager if no additional job opportunities arise.


----------



## nrr (Aug 18, 2006)

yak said:
			
		

> hey, that's my monthly wager if no additional job opportunities arise.


It's what I make in an hour. :/


----------



## nobuyuki (Aug 18, 2006)

bastards, I have to work an entire weekend to make that much :|


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 18, 2006)

I didn't call anyone a liar, I said **example** I said you're often not credible, which actually is true. You said it was an exploit when quite possibly it was a bug. Instead of trying to say everything is exploited, I merely went down the possibilities of what could have happened vs, playing Chicken Little.

I'm sorry if you're trying to confuse the two, but you also had your information wrong but I never see you apologize either.

Can you please calm down by the way, because like I said this "you guys vs our guys" doesn't really work in my opinion. Stating things merely because you hate the guy instead of just keeping it down to basics doesn't help you at all.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

.


----------



## Xax (Aug 18, 2006)

Looks like I owe FA $100 now.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 18, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> Funny how your 'example' was that I was apparently too fucking dumb to check the spelling and case sensitivity of a person on my bans list.
> 
> You know you really, really, really should check your facts first. It's also never to late to apologise for such a thinly veiled and weak attack.



Again, you miss the point. The whole reason I cited the example is similar to a person that cries their car won't start. There are reasons someone can't start a car, but in this case you immediately ran with the conclusion someone jacked a part needed to start the car.

Once again, I find your statement ironic because you accused someone of *USING an EXPLOIT* instead of running down other possibilities. So please follow your own advice.


----------



## KurtBatz (Aug 18, 2006)

.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 18, 2006)

Umm a bug isn't always an exploit (it has to have intent). And NO, I won't look silly because I don't accuse people of doing something until confirmed. I'll look like I took a *more reasonable* attitude towards the whole thing

I mean I think if a part turned out to be stolen, but I just thought it was a mechanical error with a car originally it's not so bad. If I accuse someone of stealing something and it was a mechanical error, that is worse.


----------



## facek (Aug 18, 2006)

Hey Kurt can you post that log now that you are off read-only?


----------



## InvaderPichu (Aug 18, 2006)

Mr Cullen said:
			
		

> His Actions on FA are to do with FA and his actions on other sites are for the other sites in question to deal with themselves, whether he works the strings or not.



I agree with this.

P.S. KurtBatz:

1. Calm down.
2. The block feature has always been faulty.
3. Plz post log kthnx


----------



## Ursus_Amplus (Aug 18, 2006)

Logs plz!


----------



## Ursus_Amplus (Aug 18, 2006)

PS Banning anyone from a site, especially someone with techinical nonce like arc is like trying to stop water getting through a sieve... it'll always get through.


----------



## Wakboth (Aug 18, 2006)

Ursus_Amplus said:
			
		

> PS Banning anyone from a site, especially someone with techinical nonce like arc is like trying to stop water getting through a sieve... it'll always get through.


Possibly. But it's no reason not to try, however.


----------



## Kattywampus (Aug 18, 2006)

nobuyuki said:
			
		

> In conclusion, this is what reading this thread sounded like to me:
> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/foxes.php



Amen to that, cuzzin.


----------



## cesarin (Aug 18, 2006)

Arshes Nei said:
			
		

> Umm a bug isn't always an exploit (it has to have intent). And NO, I won't look silly because I don't accuse people of doing something until confirmed. I'll look like I took a *more reasonable* attitude towards the whole thing
> 
> I mean I think if a part turned out to be stolen, but I just thought it was a mechanical error with a car originally it's not so bad. If I accuse someone of stealing something and it was a mechanical error, that is worse.



excuse me but using(or abusing of a) a bug to bypass a protection or security part IS AN EXPLOIT.

common arshes...


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 18, 2006)

cesarin said:
			
		

> excuse me but using(or abusing of a) a bug to bypass a protection or security part IS AN EXPLOIT.
> 
> common arshes...



What the hell? No he wasn't even going around it, it simply *didn't work* that's NOT an exploit.

Make more sense, wtf is "common arshes"

http://www.furaffinityforums.net/showthread.php?tid=2552&pid=30823#pid30823


----------



## Visimar (Aug 18, 2006)

I don't think it's an exploit at all. Another user's having similar problems: [Edit: Darn, Arshes beat me to the link]

Really, people, stop letting your anger and hatred towards Arc control what you say/type/do. It's looking rather silly, really.


----------



## verix (Aug 18, 2006)

KurtBatz said:
			
		

> I said it was LIKELY an exploit. In fact, last time I checked, Yak and Preyfar are still checking it out.
> 
> If it turns out to be an exploit after all.......well gosh. You WILL look silly then, won't you?


If you were to walk into Toyota of Orange and say that you wanted to buy a car they would tell you "Sorry, we don't serve lemons here."

Because you won't get a lemon.

At Toyota of Orange.


----------



## Wolfblade (Aug 18, 2006)

Someone having a personal grudge against Arcturus does nothing to invalidate his actions.

Here comes one of my oh-so-popular analogies: 

"I hate the person who murdered my friend's family on a personal level because of what he did." "I am sorry, you have no right to express negative opinion of that person because you are biased against him and I am going to have to ignore what you told me of his history simply because you aren't completely detached and coldly calculating to the situation."

Yes, there are a lot of people who do come across as if this is a personal gripe with the guy. The fact of how many people seem to take letting him back based on his history as a personal offense does MORE to discredit the decision to unban him.



			
				Mr. Cullen said:
			
		

> Would anyone who has strong personal feelings against arc, agree to someone else being a white hat instead of arc if they had done similar things?



I don't know Arcturus or any of the people I tend to disagree with personally, so I can't have personal feelings against them, but since I'm generally credited as being motivated by a personal grudge against some people I'll respond to this.

I have strong personal feelings against Arcturus' ACTIONS and HISTORY (since I can't have strong feelings personally against someone I don't know OTHER than what they have done).* I would be just as against making anyone a white hat who has gone to even half of the trouble to hinder this community that Arcturus has.*

Acting like personal feelings have any bearing in this discussion, or quibbling over which of Arcturus' innumerable offenses are confirmed and which are not is just diverting the attention away from the facts of the matter. He has admitted to hacking the site on numerous occasions. Within the last WEEK he hijacked an Admin account and banned a user for personal reasons.

Any argument that he is trustworthy or has done anything to _deserve_ this community's forgiveness is stupid.


----------



## Arshes Nei (Aug 18, 2006)

verix said:
			
		

> If you were to walk into Toyota of Orange and say that you wanted to buy a car they would tell you "Sorry, we don't serve lemons here."
> 
> Because you won't get a lemon.
> 
> At Toyota of Orange.



Strangled voice: I wouldn't have gotten a lemon?!?!


----------



## verix (Aug 18, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> "I hate the person who murdered my friend's family on a personal level because of what he did." "I am sorry, you have no right to express negative opinion of that person because you are biased against him and I am going to have to ignore what you told me of his history simply because you aren't completely detached and coldly calculating to the situation."


no I'm sorry you have it wrong

"I hate the person who murdered my friend's family on a personal level because of what he did. I do not want to hire this person as a hitman." 
"But he's a really good murderer."
"BUT HE KILLED MY FRIEND'S FAMILY."
"Yeah and he did it really well. I think you just don't want to hire this person as a hitman because he murdered your friend's family."
"Whatever dude I bet you're friends with him."


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## InvaderPichu (Aug 18, 2006)

Wolfblade said:
			
		

> Someone having a personal grudge against Arcturus does nothing to invalidate his actions.
> 
> Here comes one of my oh-so-popular analogies:
> 
> "I hate the person who murdered my friend's family on a personal level because of what he did." "I am sorry, you have no right to express negative opinion of that person because you are biased against him and I am going to have to ignore what you told me of his history simply because you aren't completely detached and coldly calculating to the situation."



I'm sorry, but comparing murder(and the tragic loss of a loved one) to internet bullshit is rather stupid.


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## blackdragoon (Aug 18, 2006)

all this bickering about it is useless. the fact remains that the admins have made their choice about arc and there is nothing any of your whining can do to change this fact. just deal with it. everyone who has a problem with this has already made their points loud and clear (looks at wolfblade) and there is no reason to keep repeating yourselves over and over again. the decision was made and i think it was the right one for the site in the long run.

besides, there are always other sites you can view on the net when and if this site goes down. try newgrounds or joecartoon or collegehumor or mausland.de or rumandmonkey or some other sites like that if fa goes down. it's not the end of th world you know. 

ps. i don't personally have a problem with arc since i got a life outside fa.
edit: i do spend about 5-8 hours on this site everyday so don't think otherwise.


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## Silverdragon00 (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE:  Wasn't Arcturus supposed to be perma-banned?*



			
				blackdragoon said:
			
		

> all this bickering about it is useless. the fact remains that the admins have made their choice about arc and there is nothing any of your whining can do to change this fact. just deal with it. everyone who has a problem with this has already made their points loud and clear (looks at wolfblade) and there is no reason to keep repeating yourselves over and over again. the decision was made and i think it was the right one for the site in the long run.
> 
> besides, there are always other sites you can view on the net when and if this site goes down. try newgrounds or joecartoon or collegehumor or mausland.de or rumandmonkey or some other sites like that if fa goes down. it's not the end of th world you know.
> 
> ...



At least some people are smart enough to realize bickering won't do anything


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## blackdragoon (Aug 18, 2006)

yay i em sm-are-tt!!

hukked on fonnex wurckked f-oar mee. endd it ken wurckk furr yooo two. 

no, in all seriousness thanks for the compliment silverdragonoo.


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## Silverdragon00 (Aug 18, 2006)

i can stand some bickering, but this whole thread is going in circles and not helping anything or anyone


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## blackdragoon (Aug 18, 2006)

agreed, i think it should be locked right about now. along with that other one debating this exact same thing.


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## TeeGee (Aug 20, 2006)

Kattywampus said:
			
		

> nobuyuki said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is bad that I actually laughed when I saw that?


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## WHPellic (Aug 20, 2006)

Basically, all bickering does is rile both sides up, leads to long-winded posts, sarcastic retorts, and contributes absolutely nothing to the topic. In other words, it wastes everybody's time.


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## dave hyena (Aug 21, 2006)

Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
Our stern alarums changed to merry meetings,
Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
Grim-visaged war hath smooth'd his wrinkled front;
And now, instead of mounting barded steeds
To fright the souls of fearful adversaries,
He capers nimbly in a lady's chamber
To the lascivious pleasing of a lute.


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## Damaratus (Aug 21, 2006)

Dave Hyena said:
			
		

> He capers nimbly in a lady's chamber
> To the lascivious pleasing of a lute.



Now that's a double entendre if ever I have read one.


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## Wolfblade (Aug 25, 2006)

verix said:
			
		

> no I'm sorry you have it wrong
> 
> "I hate the person who murdered my friend's family on a personal level because of what he did. I do not want to hire this person as a hitman."
> "But he's a really good murderer."
> ...



Okay, so the person potentially being hired as a hitman has established his reputation as a good hitman by his numerous kills against people connected to you. I still hold that a BETTER choice would be to hire a person who has established their skill by maybe taking action against your enemies as opposed to someone who has already established no qualms about causing harm to your own people.

A good hitman may be a good hitman, but a good LOYAL hitman who helps you because your interests (the happiness of your users) are his interests will always be a better choice than a hitman who only helps you so long as you give him what he wants and has established unarguably that your interests (users) are nothing to him if they conflict with his own.

And your argument goes both ways. I'm supposed to be against him because I don't like him, but who's to say you're not supporting him just because you are friends with him?

It doesn't matter if you're friends with him or if I don't like him. That doesn't change the facts, which are that he has established a long history of putting his own interests and petty grudges before those of the rest of this community. They tell us they let him back in because it was either that or let him keep hacking. I'm just saying they seem to have missed the options of bringing on someone who isn't ready to turn on them if they don't do what he says, or you know, maybe something along the lines of there being fairly solid laws against what he's done already.

Honestly, it doesn't matter that he's here. It's only a matter of time before he does what he's known for, AGAIN. I'm not expecting the staff to reverse this decision until he gives them reason to, which he will. I'm just tired of people acting like he's a damn hero for causing all the shit he's caused. And I hope that maybe, MAYBE, this time (what >is< the count by now? How many times has he shut the place down now?) will be the last time he's allowed to do it.

It's just a steady kick in the teeth of people who want to be supportive that it seems to be kept so damn easy for those who just want to bring this place down, and so hard for anyone trying to say that the staff doesn't HAVE to put up with it. :


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## Dragonmaw (Aug 25, 2006)

I agree with Ryuusei/Van Douchebag.  It's called diplomacy.  The admins and Arcturus came to an agreement which benefits both sides.


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## Gar-Yulong (Sep 3, 2006)

You guys are raising all sorts of loldrama that doesn't need to be raised. I agree with Dragonmaw here, they likely came to an agreement, or do you really think the administratorship is that dim?


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## Arshes Nei (Sep 3, 2006)

Gar-Yulong said:
			
		

> You guys are raising all sorts of loldrama that doesn't need to be raised. I agree with Dragonmaw here, they likely came to an agreement, or do you really think the administratorship is that dim?



But writing essays about it will change their mind, don't you see that?


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## nobuyuki (Sep 3, 2006)

allright, who revived a week old thread?


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## Visimar (Sep 3, 2006)

nobuyuki said:
			
		

> allright, who revived a week old thread?



Week old? Bah, that's nothing compared to site I pop into once in a while. The thread revivals there at one point were over a year old, and by a troll no less.


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## Bokracroc (Sep 5, 2006)

1 week?!? OMG! Call the Internet Police!


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