# Windows 8



## burakki (Oct 26, 2012)

So as of today, Windows 8 was released. Was anybody here able to install it yet? I think it would be interesting to have some type of discussion regarding the new platform.

My first impressions:

- Facebook and other social media integration is a huge plus. You're able to check everything at once in some type of app/social media thing.
-Your main desktop becomes a tab on the main start menu as a result of a transition to an app related system. You're able to switch back freely and easily.
- Each corner of the screen has a purpose: Top left shows all running programs and apps. You can swap between running programs by clicking on them, or by sliding the mouse to the left, show everything at once. Each of them can be closed with a simple "close. The bottom left is start obviously, but also shows where every single app on your task bar is located. The right side leads to your "settings" and other related things. You have a search button which lets you easily look for whatever you want
- You can pin anything from your desktop onto the main start screen to open it or transfer files.
- By right clicking and selecting the "all apps" on the bottom, you can find every program/app that has been installed on the computer, and either open it, or again pin it to the main screen


I haven't used it that much yet, but it seriously shows a ton of promise. Many apps are already being released on the first day, and the user interface is really simple after you play around with it a little. It's really amazing what Microsoft has been able to do with this. Seems crazy to say this, but I feel like it has revolutionized a ton.


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## Percy (Oct 26, 2012)

I never really was interested in Windows 8, yet it's interesting with how they approached it. Hopefully it'll succeed.
Though for now, I'll stick to 7.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 26, 2012)

A rule of thumb is to skip each next windows release, and get the one after it.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

Don't even get me started on how much I loathe Windows 8 and everything styled in that manner. I don't... I had to explain this to my friend who loves Windows 8 and he just can't understand.

ALL I WANT TO DO IS LAUNCH CHROME!


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## Captain Howdy (Oct 26, 2012)

Win7 isn't perfect, but I prefer the current desktop format to tablet/phone style access >_>


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## burakki (Oct 26, 2012)

TeenageAngst said:


> Don't even get me started on how much I loathe Windows 8 and everything styled in that manner. I don't... I had to explain this to my friend who loves Windows 8 and he just can't understand.
> 
> ALL I WANT TO DO IS LAUNCH CHROME!



Yea it can become annoying that you're forced to launch it from the desktop, but I would expect google to release an app soon. My guess would be a week or so. It is Google after all. They're massive and can put a lot of man power to make the app.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 26, 2012)

TeenageAngst said:


> ALL I WANT TO DO IS LAUNCH CHROME!





> Two notable video game developers criticized Microsoft for adopting a similar "walled garden"  app distribution model to other mobile platforms with the introduction  of the Windows Storeâ€”since they felt it conflicted with the traditional  view of the PC as an open platform, due to the store's closed nature and certification requirements for compatibility and regulation of content. Markus "Notch" Persson specifically refused to accept help from a Microsoft developer to certify his popular game _Minecraft_ for Windows 8 compatibility, replying with a request for the company to "stop trying to ruin the PC as an open platform." Gabe Newell (co-founder of Valve Corporation, who developed the competing software distribution platform Steam) described Windows 8 as being a "catastrophe for everyone in the PC space" due to the closed nature of the Windows Store.[SUP][98][/SUP]



Fuck. That. Shit.


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## Percy (Oct 26, 2012)

Lastdirewolf said:


> Win7 isn't perfect, but I prefer the current desktop format to tablet/phone style access >_>


I would too. I heard it was mainly for touch screen based computers to begin with.

Edit:


Gibby said:


> Fuck. That. Shit.


After reading that now I can agree with you.


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## burakki (Oct 26, 2012)

Seems I'm in the minority here :/. I can understand that there could be many changes that people oppose, but it can't hurt to give it a try right? In the worst case, there's always the opportunity to revert back to an older update like windows 7 or Xp if you don't enjoy using the new platform?


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

I resent the fact that Microsoft thinks the average consumer is such an illiterate tool that they're incapable of working the technology as it stood and thus resorted to "apps" and large, brightly colored boxes. I have a 2000dpi mouse, a 22" HD monitor, and a gaming quality keyboard with enhanced key matrix. I did not buy these for shuffling awkwardly through row after row of pop-up styled boxes the size of my palm. I'm not using a smartphone I'm using a goddamned desktop, Microsoft. When did you forget this?


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## burakki (Oct 26, 2012)

TeenageAngst said:


> I resent the fact that Microsoft thinks the average consumer is such an illiterate tool that they're incapable of working the technology as it stood and thus resorted to "apps" and large, brightly colored boxes. I have a 2000dpi mouse, a 22" HD monitor, and a gaming quality keyboard with enhanced key matrix. I did not buy these for shuffling awkwardly through row after row of pop-up styled boxes the size of my palm. I'm not using a smartphone I'm using a goddamned desktop, Microsoft. When did you forget this?



The desktop is still there. It hasn't gone anywhere. You still have the ability to click on it and go back to it whenever you want. People seem to be forgetting the fact that it's just one of the many options you can choose from.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

That's like saying "Oh don't worry, MS-DOS is still there, but now you have to boot into it after booting into Windows 95 first."

It's the beginning of the end.


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## Gryphoneer (Oct 26, 2012)

Microsoft defends its title as Great Satan.


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## Teal (Oct 26, 2012)

Windows 8 looks like shit.


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## Ricky (Oct 26, 2012)

Upgrade to Linux :V


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## Gr8fulFox (Oct 26, 2012)

The more time that goes by, the more I miss the look of Windows 98 =(


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## Ranguvar (Oct 26, 2012)

I just got in the mail, I le update yall on me impressions in a couple of hours.


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## Unsilenced (Oct 26, 2012)

...

Ugh. 

This looks terrible. *shakes his walking stick* 

Give me XP back, dangnabbit.


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## ADF (Oct 26, 2012)

Everything I've heard about Windows 8 makes it sound like it's going to be a disaster.

That Valve are so worried about Windows 8 that they're supporting Linux as a hedge really puts into perspective how worried companies are.


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## Dreaming (Oct 26, 2012)

From what I've heard, it requires you to log in to MSN to use the computer, or it did do... no idea if they removed that, they've probably scrapped it since, which at least shows they're willing to change some things.


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## Unsilenced (Oct 26, 2012)

Dreaming said:


> From what I've heard, *it requires you to log in to MSN to use the computer*, or it did do... no idea if they removed that, they've probably scrapped it since, which at least shows they're willing to change some things.



Welp. 

Guess I'm off to be amish or something.


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## Teal (Oct 26, 2012)

Dreaming said:


> From what I've heard,* it requires you to log in to MSN to use the computer*, or it did do... no idea if they removed that, they've probably scrapped it since, which at least shows they're willing to change some things.


 Then they can go fuck themselves. 
I'll wait for Windows 9 (unless it's more of this bull crap, them I'll stay with 7).


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## Percy (Oct 26, 2012)

Dreaming said:


> From what I've heard, it requires you to log in to MSN to use the computer, or it did do... no idea if they removed that, they've probably scrapped it since, which at least shows they're willing to change some things.


What the fuck. How would people without internet use it then?


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 26, 2012)

Windows 8 is going full dictatorship, seriously. 

I hope this thing is an experiment or intended for certain machines or something. I sure as hell don't want it to taint my beloved desktop PC. I don't even know why they thought it'd be a good idea in the first place anyway.


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## Teal (Oct 26, 2012)

Maybe this will be like Vista, complete crap but with the next one being very nice.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 26, 2012)

TealMoon said:


> Maybe this will be like Vista, complete crap but with the next one being very nice.



dear god I hope so.

Tbh this Windows 8 thing sounds more like it belongs on small-size gimmicky laptops/smartphones rather than a decent machine.


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## Teal (Oct 26, 2012)

Gibby said:


> dear god I hope so.
> 
> Tbh this Windows 8 thing sounds more like it belongs on small-size gimmicky laptops/smartphones rather than a decent machine.


 Exactly. 
If they go through with this, then the next one is the same I'm switching to a mac.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

OSX has already been spoon feeding their audience the app poison since 10.6. Windows 8 was pretty much specifically designed for the Microsoft Surface and just kinda jury rigged into laptops and desktops.


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## Captain Howdy (Oct 26, 2012)

burakki said:


> Seems I'm in the minority here :/. I can understand that there could be many changes that people oppose, but it can't hurt to give it a try right? In the worst case, there's always the opportunity to revert back to an older update like windows 7 or Xp if you don't enjoy using the new platform?



You're missing the point, or at least, not looking deep enough. It's not just that Windows 8 sucks, but that Microsoft is going tolikely _build_ off of the Win8 UI-style for Win9. It's their most significant UI change in at least the last decade, which could mean the end of the current style just so that they don't have to change the UI between phone/tablet/computer/TV.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

This is off the subject but I love their numbering system.

Windows 1
Windows 2
Windows 3
Windows 3.1
Windows 95 (4)
Windows 98 (5)
Windows ME (6)
Windows XP (7)
Windows Vista (8)
Windows 7 (9)
Windows 8 (10)

Somewhere along the line it went from genuine to sequel to Resident Evil.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 26, 2012)

...where the fuck did they get the number 7 from for Win 7?


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

It gets more convoluted if we include the Windows NT parallel.


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## Heliophobic (Oct 26, 2012)

TeenageAngst said:


> Don't even get me started on how much I loathe Windows 8 and everything styled in that manner. I don't... I had to explain this to my friend who loves Windows 8 and he just can't understand.
> 
> ALL I WANT TO DO IS LAUNCH CHROME!



Jesus fucking Christ it looks worse than the current Xbox dashboard.

Yeah, I think I'll just stick with Win7 master race. It functions fine and doesn't look like a fucking smart phone screen or whatever.


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## Percy (Oct 26, 2012)

Saliva said:


> Jesus fucking Christ it looks worse than the current Xbox dashboard.


At least it's not 75% ads.


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## Mayonnaise (Oct 26, 2012)

burakki said:


> -Your main desktop becomes a tab on the main start menu as a result of a transition to an app related system. You're able to switch back freely and easily.
> - Each corner of the screen has a purpose: Top left shows all running programs and apps. You can swap between running programs by clicking on them, or by sliding the mouse to the left, show everything at once. Each of them can be closed with a simple "close. The bottom left is start obviously, but also shows where every single app on your task bar is located. The right side leads to your "settings" and other related things. You have a search button which lets you easily look for whatever you want
> - You can pin anything from your desktop onto the main start screen to open it or transfer files.
> - By right clicking and selecting the "all apps" on the bottom, you can find every program/app that has been installed on the computer, and either open it, or again pin it to the main screen.


Uhh... Is there an option to opt these out and have older style UI?



TeenageAngst said:


> It gets more convoluted if we include the Windows NT parallel.


I thought that XP, Vista, 7 and 8 were part of the NT line...


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## Catilda Lily (Oct 26, 2012)

My brother just loaded it half an hour ago. He's going to use it a bit and tell me about it. See if I like it or not.


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## ArielMT (Oct 26, 2012)

Dreaming said:


> From what I've heard, it requires you to log in to MSN to use the computer, or it did do... no idea if they removed that, they've probably scrapped it since, which at least shows they're willing to change some things.



I understand it's encouraged but no longer required.  The reason is that Microsoft are pushing their SkyDrive cloud storage to the desktop.



Gibby said:


> Tbh this Windows 8 thing sounds more like it belongs on small-size gimmicky laptops/smartphones rather than a decent machine.



And we've been saying so for the last year and a half, ever since their first demo.  I said then and I say now they're high as a kite on Palms, iPhones, and Blackberries.



Gibby said:


> ...where the fuck did they get the number 7 from for Win 7?



Windows Vista is internally Windows NT 6.0.  They called the follow-on 7 to shake that perception, but it wound up being Windows NT 6.1 anyway, saying that it's what Vista should've been.


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## Schwimmwagen (Oct 26, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I And we've been saying so for the last year and a half, ever since their first demo.  I said then and I say now they're high as a kite on Palms, iPhones, and Blackberries.



I just hope to Gherd that it stays there.

I'd rather have an upgrade of Win 7 to be honest.

Though off the top of my head, I can't think of anything to be desired for Win 7, not at this point in time with popular software anyway. Compatibility with old shit would be great though.


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## Ruby Dragon (Oct 26, 2012)

What was wrong with Windows 7? What was wrong with it? 

It seems that Microsoft is forgetting about the users that know what the hell they are doing, and just going for the elderly that barley know how to use the file system.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

All OS programmers like to forget we ever had to manually access drives at one time or another.

C:\WINDOWS> cd \
C:\> D:
D:\> cd \imperium
D:\IMPERIUM> install.exe

INVALID DIRECTORY

D:\IMPERIUM> setup.exe

INVALID DIRECTORY

D:\IMPERIUM> DIR

...

It was beautiful.


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## Torrijos-sama (Oct 26, 2012)

Time to turn up the diarrhea dial to the max.

Y'all can have fun. I'll just be over here with my laptop running Unity.


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## ArielMT (Oct 26, 2012)

JesusFish said:


> Time to turn up the diarrhea dial to the max.
> 
> Y'all can have fun. I'll just be over here with my laptop running Unity.



Ugh.  Unity is the subject of another equally valid rant.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 26, 2012)

Ruby Dragon said:


> What was wrong with Windows 7? What was wrong with it?
> 
> It seems that Microsoft is forgetting about the users that know what the hell they are doing, and just going for the elderly that barley know how to use the file system.



Nothing is wrong with it. If you like it, keep using it.

As ArielMT said and I've known this for a long time. MS knew there was trouble when people started going more to their smartphones and tablets. Most of them either run iOS or Android. Microsoft wants a piece of that market. If they can capture it and integrate it with desktops then they feel they have a winner. 

For me I can't get past that horrid GUI. I mean the underlying structure has some improvements - ie the windows explorer, but having to look at square vomit every time I log on thinking I'm using a bad console - is hard to get through. I will stick with Windows 7 since it suits what I need just fine. Even benchmarks show that Windows 8 is just a bit faster than 7 in startup and shutdown times, and media handling - but it doesn't change performance in gaming or much else. I don't think a few seconds faster is something that is very necessary for a desktop and you already feel good if you're running an SSD anyways. 

However, a speedier phone/tablet or mobile device will be handy for people who use/prefer Windows


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## Mehru (Oct 26, 2012)

Ruby Dragon said:


> It seems that Microsoft is forgetting about the users that know what the hell they are doing, and just going for the elderly that barley know how to use the file system.



I don't quite see the issue with making technology more usable by people other than these "users" who are capable of doing stuff. If anything, MS are doing a good thing by making a functional OS a little more basic... It's brilliant if you were only going to invest on a tablet to read the news and post on Facebook from.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

Except it's a platform being used by power users, gamers, and programmers. It's being developed _at the expense of _their core userbase. It's only brilliant on the tablet platform, and that's currently dominated by Apple. There's no reason to shoehorn it into the desktops/laptops as well.


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## Mehru (Oct 26, 2012)

I thought when they first mentioned this OS it was specifically being targeted at a tablet platform-using audience? The core user base is as much families, students and adults just wanting to have internet access as much as programmers and gamers. I'm sure they're all smart enough to realize that this OS isn't for them.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

In a year you won't be able to buy a PC without Windows 8 on it. This will be Microsoft's GUI and target audience for the foreseeable future and will probably dominate Windows 9. Everyone else won't have an option if they want to run a current operating system in the coming years. Now if they made a Windows 8 and a Windows NT or something like they had ME and 2000, that would be one thing. People who knew what they were doing could pick the good operating system and all the tech-illiterate consumers could plink around with their sliding tiles.


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## Mehru (Oct 26, 2012)

Ah, I see what you mean. I guess if someone cared enough about the OS their computer has, they could go ahead and buy themselves a copy of said OS and install it...? They'll still sell Windows 7 Installation disks for years to come, just as they have with Vista...


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 26, 2012)

That's assuming manufacturers still provide drivers for Windows 7. Imagine buying a laptop 2 years from now and trying to find Acer drivers for Windows 7 for that specialized hardware. Sure, desktops will probably be sitting pretty enough to ride this out like XP users were able to survive the Vista/7 revision if they were weird and didn't like Windows 7 for some reason, but then we have to worry about what kind of bullshit Microsoft is going to try to jam down our throat for Windows 10, assuming such a thing will exist.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 26, 2012)

TeenageAngst said:


> That's assuming manufacturers still provide drivers for Windows 7. Imagine buying a laptop 2 years from now and trying to find Acer drivers for Windows 7 for that specialized hardware. Sure, desktops will probably be sitting pretty enough to ride this out like XP users were able to survive the Vista/7 revision if they were weird and didn't like Windows 7 for some reason, but then we have to worry about what kind of bullshit Microsoft is going to try to jam down our throat for Windows 10, assuming such a thing will exist.



That actually would be less of a concern because it wasn't a major change in architecture like it was from XP (32 bit) to owning a 64bit OS. Otherwise, let's think about this, why such a low upgrade price?


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## ArielMT (Oct 27, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Otherwise, let's think about this, why such a low upgrade price?



Because the money is in their walled garden closed ecosystem app store.


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## burakki (Oct 27, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Because the money is in their walled garden closed ecosystem app store.



Valid point, although I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to make it cheaper so that it would be more accessible to everybody. There are still a ridiculous number of people who still use windows. By that point, cheaper price = greater volume sold = $$


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## CannonFodder (Oct 27, 2012)

burakki said:


> Valid point, although I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to make it cheaper so that it would be more accessible to everybody. There are still a ridiculous number of people who still use windows. By that point, cheaper price = greater volume sold = $$


That raises the question of since it's so cheap will they sell more copies?


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## Ranguvar (Oct 27, 2012)

I been using it all day today, and its not that bad. Its windows 7 with a full screen start menu.....


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## Teal (Oct 27, 2012)

Green_Knight said:


> I been using it all day today, and its not that bad. Its windows 7 with a full screen start menu.....


 Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 27, 2012)

I like how most of the positive things about Windows 8 are the ways it resembles Windows 7.


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## CannonFodder (Oct 27, 2012)

Looks like I'm going to be skipping windows 8.


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## Zuckerdachs (Oct 27, 2012)

I don't know wtf you guys are freaking out about. Nobody's forcing you to use it. 

People will skip over it, Microsoft will realize from lack of sales that people don't like it for their desktops, and the next OS will be different. It's not even targeting desktop users in the first place - the advertisements specifically mention tablets.

Chill out.


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## CannonFodder (Oct 27, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> I don't know wtf you guys are freaking out about. Nobody's forcing you to use it.
> 
> People will skip over it, Microsoft will realize from lack of sales that people don't like it for their desktops, and the next OS will be different. It's not even targeting desktop users in the first place - the advertisements specifically mention tablets.
> 
> Chill out.


I didn't even say I was angry about how it's targetting tablets.  I'm just skipping it cause I don't think it's worth the money for a new operating system with so little new features.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 27, 2012)

Address the people you think are angry instead of generalizing a discussion?

For those interested. http://www.techspot.com/news/50599-microsoft-wont-release-service-pack-2-for-windows-7.html


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## Zuckerdachs (Oct 27, 2012)

CannonFodder said:


> I didn't even say I was angry about how it's targetting tablets.  I'm just skipping it cause I don't think it's worth the money for a new operating system with so little new features.



I wasn't directing my comment at you. You said you were skipping it anyway. I was referring to comments such as "this is the beginning of the end" and "game developers are worried" and that "it's at the expense of their core userbase" and so on.

I just think this attitude is alarmist and silly. It's not indicative of any sort of damaging trend in the development of operating systems; it's to benefit a different sort of computer that works better with that sort of interface. We'll all still be able to play our Japanese dating simulators and dungeon crawlers in peace with other operating systems.


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## TeenageAngst (Oct 27, 2012)

As I said, like Windows 95 did to MS-DOS, Windows 8 is going to do to the traditional desktop environment. It'll take a number of years but soon it won't exist anymore. Some might say good riddance but I don't see the proposed alternative to be all that great.


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## Ranguvar (Oct 27, 2012)

TeenageAngst said:


> As I said, like Windows 95 did to MS-DOS, Windows 8 is going to do to the traditional desktop environment. It'll take a number of years but soon it won't exist anymore. Some might say good riddance but I don't see the proposed alternative to be all that great.



You are going to buy some fucking apps and you are going to to like it!!!!

-Microsoft


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 27, 2012)

Did a clean install on a Motion Computing LE1700. - This is a slate PC uses a wacom enabled pen. 


Startup times are...just about as bad as Windows 7 - I get the additional beauty of "flicker" and lagging keyboard response.

Too many clicks to get to certain spots, yes I guess you could hotkey it but...no
I don't mind the start menu being gone, but the amount of clicks to navigate to something becomes a bit counter intuitive. A "Shutdown/Restart/Logout" button should be right on the main interface. 

I really hate that they train you on the idea to wave your mouse over to the top right corner to access the menu, when traditionally that's also where the close button is.
Some things are slightly nicer. The WEI is funny now it's a scale of 1-9.9

I'm just really unimpressed and more frustrated. I could get over the ugly gambox console of Metro but what should be a better experience as a tablet PC user has been more awkward.

For example, you see something on Metro and think it looks neat (from default) like "ooh a Calendar" a tablet PC doesn't always have it's keyboard enabled. So what happens? It asks you to sign in with MSN you think "nah" and hit cancel. It tells you to use this feature you need to sign in and try again. Instead of being nice and going "well I need to gtfo" you're stuck on that cycle unless you have a keyboard or external button that say OUT to get back to the Metro GUI.

I do like the bigger keyboard which is of course designed more for a touch screen, but as a tablet PC user the older keyboard was a bit on the small side and make more prone to incorrect presses on screen so I guess this is a step up. 

The other problem is pressure sensitivity doesn't want to work, trying to find the right driver is a pain in the ass. 

My biggest peeve right now is that I have a network connected drive on my router. Windows 8 refuses to see it. When my tablet PC was on Windows 7 it could see it just fine, so wtf.


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## ArielMT (Oct 28, 2012)

Zuckerdachs said:


> I don't know wtf you guys are freaking out about. Nobody's forcing you to use it. Yet.



FTFY.  Microsoft finally learned that the largest competitor to any Microsoft product is Microsoft itself.

Also, the reviews I've read say that the people who will most welcome and use Windows 8 are people who have never used a computer before, especially those whose computing needs are extremely simple and satisfied (if even just partly) by the applications that come bundled with it.  Essentially, those whose needs are satisfied by a large-ish general-purpose tablet.


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## SonderDrache (Oct 28, 2012)

ArielMT, I have to counter the idea of people most enjoying Win 8 are new computer users. Just saw a commercial on tv. It was for Win 8 laptops, being sold at, I believe, Office Depot. They made it a point to tell you, with the purchase of any laptop, you'll be given "free Windows 8 training." I don't remember hearing that for any previous Windows launch. If you have to make it a selling point that you'll be giving free training to use your new OS, then that, to me, means that its going to be a bit of a shock to far too many people. It's going to look and feel so different, you need training. Hell, I think I read Microsoft had to give 12 hours of training to MS store associates for Win 8. It just seems to me MS has kinda screwed up here. They changed things too much. There's a reason the Windows interface hasn't changed for over 15 years. It worked.

On a side note, I do believe the upgrade fee from Vista to Win 7 was pretty cheap also. I don't think that's anything special here. It's just the usual push to get more people switched to the new OS.


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## ArielMT (Oct 28, 2012)

SonderDrache said:


> ArielMT, I have to counter the idea of people most enjoying Win 8 are new computer users. Just saw a commercial on tv. It was for Win 8 laptops, being sold at, I believe, Office Depot. They made it a point to tell you, with the purchase of any laptop, you'll be given "free Windows 8 training." I don't remember hearing that for any previous Windows launch.



I'm trying to recall if computer stores used free training as a selling point with the last major change to the PC's user interface, Windows 95's Windows Explorer which did away with the then-standard Program Manager application in favor of a more Mac-like integrated desktop.



SonderDrache said:


> If you have to make it a selling point that you'll be giving free training to use your new OS, then that, to me, means that its going to be a bit of a shock to far too many people. It's going to look and feel so different, you need training.



Yes, but that is targeted toward the most likely consumer of Windows 8, users of Windows 7, Windows Vista, and Windows XP.  There still do exist people of all ages who have never used a desktop computer but have used portable less-than-computer devices such as smartphones and tablets.

Oddly, the people who I expect to pick up Windows 8 the quickest are users of Windows Phone 7.



SonderDrache said:


> Hell, I think I read Microsoft had to give 12 hours of training to MS store associates for Win 8. It just seems to me MS has kinda screwed up here. They changed things too much. There's a reason the Windows interface hasn't changed for over 15 years. It worked.



The main reason Microsoft had to give Microsoft Store employees significant training is because they didn't know the important feature differences between Windows 8 Pro and Windows RT, and they wound up bullshitting their way through their ignorance in order to secure a sale enough times to get caught by a reporter.



SonderDrache said:


> On a side note, I do believe the upgrade fee from Vista to Win 7 was pretty cheap also. I don't think that's anything special here. It's just the usual push to get more people switched to the new OS.



Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade was $129 at launch, the same as Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade was; the price was later reduced.  By contrast, Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade and Windows XP Home Edition Upgrade were both $99 each.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2012)

I would say it's more for newer computer users because I know people who have smartphones but no computer. They want an OS that looks like their mobile device.

I don't understand why it takes so much for me to power off a damn computer.
Before it was rather simple, you hit the start button/windows key and on the right was the Power options.

Windows 8?
Well if I'm on the desktop I have to do a Harry Potter magic wand wave to the right either in the top corner (which is stupid, because that's next to CLOSE for most full screen applications) or I can do it on the bottom right, probably activating the show desktop.
Then you have to navigate to the Cog/Settings
Then you have PC Power options.

I just want to fucking turn off the computer and they make this more difficult by adding in more unnecessary navigation. 

Right now I'm just pissed at the broken functionality of my tablet. If I install a driver to get pressure sensitivity, it causes the other part of Pen Tablet navigation to become broken or not work in the downloaded apps. Right now half my desktop programs even recognize I installed the Wacom driver.

If I don't well works like shit in programs that want Wacom pressure sensitivity...if they recognize I installed the driver in the first place.
Windows 7 did not give me this much trouble - The problem was finding the correct driver from Wacom. 

If I disabled the Tablet PC services it wasn't as big of a deal in Windows 7 because I could still use the OS. 
In Windows 8 I feel like I have to pick and choose here. I get half functionality if I choose one or the other driver.

It really sucks.


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## Demache (Oct 28, 2012)

Back when I installed the Consumer Preview, it wasn't really that bad. It was like Windows 7, but with a full screen start menu that has added functionality. Oh and minus a Start button but I use the Win key anyway so nothing of value was lost.

The tablet features were much welcomed though due to the fact that it did have much better touch oriented features. But I haven't used retail yet, and I did have a few gripes about the consumer preview (mostly being bugs, rather than usability issues, sort of like when I used the Windows 7 Release Candidate which also had its fair share of bugs). From what I can tell, most of the things people are griping about are completely overblown IMO and I plan on getting it.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 28, 2012)

My friend got it somehow a week ago and installed it on his new Macbook Pro (which officially convinced me that Macbooks aren't too bad. Always liked the hardware, but never thought I could change the OS). I can't remember how he got it, but he said everyone could get it for free before a certain date which I think has passed. I found it rather fluent and it's not like the standard desktop changed any so it's doing something different without changing what I like about Win7. I'm gonna switch when I get a copy. I like it. :3


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## Demache (Oct 28, 2012)

XoPachi said:


> My friend got it somehow a week ago and installed it on his new Macbook Pro (which officially convinced me that Macbooks aren't too bad. Always liked the hardware, but never thought I could change the OS). I can't remember how he got it, but he said everyone could get it for free before a certain date which I think has passed. I found it rather fluent and it's not like the standard desktop changed any so it's doing something different without changing what I like about Win7. I'm gonna switch when I get a copy. I like it. :3


Probably got the Release Candidate or Consumer Preview or something (which was publically available to download from Microsoft for free). That's how I tried it out. I saw many more benefits than negatives. It connected up to my Windows 2000 (damn that was a great OS) machine no problem over the network and nothing was inherently broken so it met my minimal standards.


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## burakki (Oct 28, 2012)

XoPachi said:


> My friend got it somehow a week ago and installed it on his new Macbook Pro (which officially convinced me that Macbooks aren't too bad. Always liked the hardware, but never thought I could change the OS). I can't remember how he got it, but he said everyone could get it for free before a certain date which I think has passed. I found it rather fluent and it's not like the standard desktop changed any so it's doing something different without changing what I like about Win7. I'm gonna switch when I get a copy. I like it. :3



I'm not sure where you can get it free (unless you pirate it or something, that works!), but it's only around $40 if you decide to purchase it. I was lucky because my school offered it no charge.


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## Judge Spear (Oct 28, 2012)

burakki said:


> I'm not sure where you can get it free (unless you pirate it or something, that works!), but it's only around $40 if you decide to purchase it. I was lucky because my school offered it no charge.



Demache got it right. I couldn't remember the name of the little event MS had. My friend is a tech wiz and gets special access to new things. Certain new things not all. He's no Nate Burr. I believe his employment status at our local CompUSA also helped, but I doubt it.

And why the fuck did I say a week ago? I meant a month.


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## Kixu (Oct 28, 2012)

burakki said:


> - By right clicking and selecting the "all apps" on the bottom, you can find every program/app that has been installed on the computer, and either open it, or again pin it to the main screen



Okay, here's a question: does this actually find all executables, or just executables that have been registered?  Because if it's the latter, that doesn't sound like a big change.

I haven't messed with Win8 yet.  Can anyone who has tell me whether there's any sort of proper package management system, like OS X's .app, or Linux's repository system?


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 28, 2012)

Well networking is pretty broken. They even acknowledged they botched the Group Policy a bit.

I still have issues with it recognizing a network drive plugged into my router. It does recognize it as a DLNA device but won't show all the files I need - shows the folders though. Such fail. 

Really does feel like it's for people too stupid to know how to operate a computer as it buries stuff that needs tweaking and the dual "App" and Desktop mode is not working well for me. It causes stalls on the system. As a mobile platform it's not so bad, but the store is built on oodles of terrible.


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## Demache (Oct 29, 2012)

Arshes Nei said:


> Well networking is pretty broken. They even acknowledged they botched the Group Policy a bit.
> 
> I still have issues with it recognizing a network drive plugged into my router. It does recognize it as a DLNA device but won't show all the files I need - shows the folders though. Such fail.
> 
> Really does feel like it's for people too stupid to know how to operate a computer as it buries stuff that needs tweaking and the dual "App" and Desktop mode is not working well for me. It causes stalls on the system. As a mobile platform it's not so bad, but the store is built on oodles of terrible.


The network drive sounds bizarre to me. I had literally no issues mapping two network shares on Windows 2000 Server and Windows 7. Login using server credentials and voila it worked.


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## Arshes Nei (Oct 29, 2012)

Demache said:


> The network drive sounds bizarre to me. I had literally no issues mapping two network shares on Windows 2000 Server and Windows 7. Login using server credentials and voila it worked.



The computer drives are seen, the network drive is not. Mapping isn't the same thing.

To explain. My network drive originally shows up as a "computer" and works in Windows 7 fine. And I can access the entire drive

http://images.pcworld.com/images/article/2012/08/network-11397935.png

It's not showing up at all in Windows 8. That makes it difficult. It is only showing up as a DLNA media device like in the image. It means I can only access certain files like certain images or videos.

Also how fucking hard is it to put a search bar on this thing?
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/windows-8-consumer-preview-windows-store.jpg

It's all white space and you have to activate the "Charm bar" for this bullshit? For search? WTF.


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## thoron (Oct 29, 2012)

With any luck they might, just might realize their mistake and and give the option to only have the desktop complete with a task bar and start button in the lower left corner. To me those who say that everything in Windows 7 is still there and that it should be good enough to please everybody are people who are just willing to settle for what ever is given to them.


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## Dreaming (Nov 12, 2012)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...lusive-to-windows-8-microsoft-confirms?ref=nf

I dunno what this means, someone tech-savvy needs to translate.


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## TeenageAngst (Nov 12, 2012)

It means Microsoft is getting desperate in their attempts to get people to convert to their new operating system by cutting off gamers from any future engine improvements.


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## Ikrit (Nov 12, 2012)

are you telling me that i can't just like switch from the stupid box crap to the older star menu and desktop setup in the settings?

what is the world coming to....


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## Bernad (Nov 12, 2012)

Dreaming said:


> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...lusive-to-windows-8-microsoft-confirms?ref=nf
> 
> I dunno what this means, someone tech-savvy needs to translate.



DirectX 11.1 adds stereoscopic 3D so you can play games with your 3D glasses.  
Nothing worth moving to Windows 8 for. Unless you really really want to use those 3D glasses.


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## Percy (Nov 12, 2012)

Bernad said:


> DirectX 11.1 adds stereoscopic 3D so you can play games with your 3D glasses.
> Nothing worth moving to Windows 8 for. Unless you really really want to use those 3D glasses.


3D glasses aren't even anything special. It just seems like they'd get annoying after a while.


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## thoron (Nov 12, 2012)

I wonder, will people start switching over to Ubuntu or Linux?


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## ADF (Nov 12, 2012)

If Valve pull off the Linux support, I'm over there. Of course after a lot of progress, I'm not itching to leave windows 7 any time soon.

Microsoft's attitude is really becoming increasingly intolerable. All the old operating systems people bitched about aside, this move really could be the one that begins killing Windows. They owe all their success to being an open operating system, as in anyone can develop for it. If they lock things down now they're going to slowly die because of the reduced software support.

They're going to pull this "exclusive feature" bullshit every new OS now, when it's entirely artificial. What do I care about DX11.1? They're not even using DX11 or DX10 properly because of the sheer cross platform bias of the games industry now. The game I play the most these days is Minecraft, I couldn't care less about an extra layer of shiny. The Â£40, completed in 6 hours, blockbuster budget games are tiresome as hell. I cannot even remember what the last game I bought was, I've mostly been mucking around with old sandbox games on PC or Android titles.

Things really have become dire if Linux is beginning to be regarded as a possible option to game companies.


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## thoron (Nov 12, 2012)

ADF said:


> If Valve pull off the Linux support, I'm over there. Of course after a lot of progress, I'm not itching to leave windows 7 any time soon.
> 
> Microsoft's attitude is really becoming increasingly intolerable. All the old operating systems people bitched about aside, this move really could be the one that begins killing Windows. They owe all their success to being an open operating system, as in anyone can develop for it. If they lock things down now they're going to slowly die because of the reduced software support.
> 
> ...



Though with any luck it would teach Mircosoft its place. Also with any luck sales will be modest to dismal during the christmas/holiday shopping season.


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## Zydrate Junkie (Nov 12, 2012)

Yay! Now I get to make my PC look like my fucking Xbox 360 dashboard with it's terrible layout! :V


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## ADF (Nov 12, 2012)

thoron said:


> Though with any luck it would teach Mircosoft its place. Also with any luck sales will be modest to dismal during the christmas/holiday shopping season.



The problem is most operating system sales are with purchases of pre-built PC packages. So for that market (which will make up the majority) Windows 8 adoption will probably be strong... It's how the power user reacts and whether it is big enough to actually have an impact.


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## Ambroise Dartagnan (Nov 12, 2012)

I didn't actually install it rather run it in a VM.
given that it was using generic drivers 4gb or ram and only two cores. it was actually pretty fast BUT it was clunky.
we're over complicating things for use on traditional PC's.

And as for the desktop still being there, yes but it's pretty much useless.
The Metro UI is great for Tablets, phones and I even think it "works" on the Xbox dashboard. but on a PC that has a mouse and Keyboard.... NO

Only reason I might upgrade...uhm..... When does 7 go unsupported?
Perhaps Windows 9 will be good.

On a side note:
if I find a GREAT deal on a new laptop/tablet (with a touch screen) I'll buy it, since I feel Win8 would actually be a lot more usable as a Touch interface.


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## Bipolar Bear (Nov 12, 2012)

Once I hear enough good reviews from it, I'll make the switch. For now, I'll stick with Windows 7 Ultimate. It's served me well and it can serve me a little while longer.


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## ArielMT (Nov 12, 2012)

I bought a copy with a new computer last week, and the only reason I'm not paying someone to take it from me like I did with Vista is because I wouldn't wish this poorly-executed crap on my worst enemy.  It's smooth and stable, surprisingly so given it's Windows, but it's even worse than I had heard.

Still, my company's going to have a few people using it, so I have to keep it and learn how to support it.

The Windows 8 Store is even worse. Microsoft's "my way or the highway" default apps are completely unacceptable, so I went searching for replacements.  Searching for "email" in the "Productivity" category gives only a single desktop app I've never heard of before, and in all categories only one Metro app that does POP3/IMAP (but targeted for senior citizens), splattered in 41 and 266 search "results" respectively.  Seriously, Driver Detective turned up as a high-ranking result for an email app search, and a calculator was ranked more relevant still.

Edit: Oh, holy crap.  You need to create a Microsoft account even if you're installing free Metro apps.



Ikrit said:


> are you telling me that i can't just like switch from the stupid box crap to the older star menu and desktop setup in the settings?
> 
> what is the world coming to....



Bingo.



Bipolar Bear said:


> Once I hear enough good reviews from it, I'll make the switch. For now, I'll stick with Windows 7 Ultimate. It's served me well and it can serve me a little while longer.



That's the best advice I can give. For the love of whatever's holy to you, if Windows 7 is working well for you (especially on a desktop or no-touch laptop), don't upgrade!


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## Ikrit (Nov 12, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Still, my company's going to have a few people using it, so I have to keep it and learn how to support it.



tell them you didn't receive training in support for a mac :V


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## thoron (Nov 12, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Edit: Oh, holy crap.  You need to create a Microsoft account even if you're installing free Metro apps.



Isn't that illeagal to force someone to make an account just to use the machine?

I heard something about how windows is going to try and keep people from changing OS's. I think that could potentially land them in hot water since thats creating a monoply.


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## ArielMT (Nov 12, 2012)

Ikrit said:


> tell them you didn't receive training in support for a mac :V



They're customers, not employees.  Also, Windows 8 is so alien that Mac users are as lost in it as Windows 7/Vista/XP users.



thoron said:


> Isn't that illeagal to force someone to make an account just to use the machine?



Technically, though, it isn't a requirement to use the machine.  It asked me during the upgrade from Windows 7 to make an account, and it was confusing enough that it'll compel a lot of people to just give up and do it, but with one click I bypassed that and just used the account I upgraded from.  Also, Windows 8 receives updates to the system the Windows 7 way and updates to the Metro apps via the Store app without an account.



thoron said:


> I heard something about how windows is going to try and keep people from changing OS's. I think that could potentially land them in hot water since thats creating a monoply.



The way they're planning to do that is through a UEFI feature called SecureBoot.  As I understand it, with SecureBoot enabled, the system won't boot any OSes without matching keys and signatures.  Keys cost money and, although SecureBoot can be disabled by the user, it's unintuitive and deliberately frightening to those who want to dualboot another OS.  If what I hear is true, it won't even be possible to boot a live CD or live USB OS with SecureBoot enabled without the key.  And the most prevalent keyholder is Microsoft.

The Fedora project got money together to buy access from Microsoft, but they're the only Linux distro project who've done so, and the ethical problems are as apparent as the practical ones.


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## thoron (Nov 13, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> The way they're planning to do that is through a UEFI feature called SecureBoot.  As I understand it, with SecureBoot enabled, the system won't boot any OSes without matching keys and signatures.  Keys cost money and, although SecureBoot can be disabled by the user, it's unintuitive and deliberately frightening to those who want to dualboot another OS.  If what I hear is true, it won't even be possible to boot a live CD or live USB OS with SecureBoot enabled without the key.  And the most prevalent keyholder is Microsoft.
> 
> The Fedora project got money together to buy access from Microsoft, but they're the only Linux distro project who've done so, and the ethical problems are as apparent as the practical ones.



So basically you just have to be a little tech savi and you can break the SecureBoot to use any other OS you desire?

I have to say that I'm kind of surprised at how far Microsoft is going to strip away user freedom. That was thier major advantage over Apple.


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## ArielMT (Nov 13, 2012)

thoron said:


> I have to say that I'm kind of surprised at how far Microsoft is going to strip away user freedom. That was thier major advantage over Apple.



I'm not. It's 1998 all over again on both the desktop and the Web.

Edit: Also, Windows unit head Steven Sinofsky left Microsoft, "effective immediately," in what was a definite surprise to me.


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## thoron (Nov 13, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> I'm not. It's 1998 all over again on both the desktop and the Web.
> 
> Edit: Also, Windows unit head Steven Sinofsky left Microsoft, "effective immediately," in what was a definite surprise to me.



Wasn't 98 when microsoft was making IE an essensial part of windows which if you un-installed it, it would cause windows to break in various ways?

And yeah, I just saw that story myself though on a different news site.


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## Ambroise Dartagnan (Nov 13, 2012)

So M$ is trying to turn PC's into mobile phones?
Secureboot sounds a lot like a locked bootloader to me.
Then the whole create an account was kinda annoying but hey XBL accounts work.

Almost like M$ is "trying" to do like google/android with requiring an account to use the play store even for free apps.


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## ArielMT (Nov 13, 2012)

thoron said:


> Wasn't 98 when microsoft was making IE an essensial part of windows which if you un-installed it, it would cause windows to break in various ways?



Among other things.  IE integration began in '96, but '98 was the peak year for both IE and Windows thanks to Microsoft's unlawful abuse of its OS monopoly.  OEMs wanted to offer dual-boot PCs, and Microsoft's answer was always a threat that if they dared they'd be single-booting and it wouldn't be Windows.

Lassoing this back on topic, the direction Microsoft want to take Windows 8 is back to those bad ol' days, just through a different method of control.


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## thoron (Nov 13, 2012)

ArielMT said:


> Among other things.  IE integration began in '96, but '98 was the peak year for both IE and Windows thanks to Microsoft's unlawful abuse of its OS monopoly.  OEMs wanted to offer dual-boot PCs, and Microsoft's answer was always a threat that if they dared they'd be single-booting and it wouldn't be Windows.
> 
> Lassoing this back on topic, the direction Microsoft want to take Windows 8 is back to those bad ol' days, just through a different method of control.



Though I would wager that if enough users get annoyed with how thier being locked it, it may land MS back in court. I've never really used Apple except on rare ocassions and it seems to be be more open than Windows is becoming. At least you can still install programs on an Apple and it doesn't need to be through the Appstore.


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## Bulveye (Nov 13, 2012)

I think you're all forgetting the most important new feature in windows 8...minesweeper adventure mode!


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## ArielMT (Nov 13, 2012)

Windows 8 has a startup time slightly faster than Windows 7, and late last night I found out why.

Microsoft cheated.  They cheated in the OS and lied in the UI.

When you get to the "shut down" option to turn a Windows 8 PC off, Windows does not execute a shutdown at all.  Instead, it silently hibernates itself and your PC.  Windows 8 gets the amazing startup times it gets, with all your non-startup apps running, because instead of booting up as you'd expect, it's waking up from hibernation.

I discovered this while futzing about in a dualboot Linux Mint 13 trying to figure out why ntfs3g wouldn't mount the Windows drive.



burakki said:


> I'm not sure where you can get it free (unless you pirate it or something, that works!), but it's only around $40 if you decide to purchase it. I was lucky because my school offered it no charge.



I forgot to mention that, because I bought my new PC before January '13, I was able to upgrade it from 7 to 8 for $14.99 by getting it through http://WindowsUpgradeOffer.com/.

Also, for those adventurous enough to buy it online without media, you have to use the "Windows 8 Upgrade Assistant" in order to download the OS.  That took a bloody age or four.  But once it's downloaded, the program will let you make an ISO image, make a bootable USB (if memory serves), and/or let you install it off the hard disk.

Like Windows 7, you can't boot the Windows 8 install disk and upgrade.  Run the installer from within your existing Windows desktop to upgrade, or boot into the install disk for a fresh install.



Bulveye said:


> I think you're all forgetting the most important new feature in windows 8...minesweeper adventure mode!



If Windows 8 came with any games preinstalled, it's news to me.


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## ArielMT (Nov 27, 2012)

Bump because I realized only this last Saturday what Windows 8 really is, and the extent of the lesson Microsoft failed to learn when making it.  It's the operating system software equivalent of the Powell Motors Homer.  Microsoft's platforms and services division simply lost sight of their audience, their real audience: their enterprise, office, home, and laptop customers, all who need a flexible, extensible, and customizable computer to satisfy their needs.  Instead, they became enchanted by iPads and focused on what they alone thought a touch-screen tablet should be.


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## Takeo Wolf (Nov 27, 2012)

I am not that much of a fan of the style of Windows 8


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