# Suicide.



## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

(There's an abortion thread, so I figured this was along the same lines.)

Some kids like it, others don't.

My biggest concern is wondering why suicide is illegal. If someone wants to kill themselves shouldn't they be allowed to? It's their body after all. Is this law based on biblical teachings? If I'm holding a gun to my head, does it make sense for the police officer to tell me to drop the gun while pointing his own at me? Didn't that happen in Lethal Weapon or something?

Mel Gibson would probably say suicide is bad. What do you think?


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## Unsilenced (Jun 3, 2011)

In London the punishment for attempted suicide used to be death. 

That is all.


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## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> In London the punishment for attempted suicide used to be death.
> 
> That is all.



Maybe they figured 'if you're going to kill yourself anyway, might as well do it legally and give the executioner a reason to come in to work.'


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

I'd say it's a shame to throw your life away. It's just plain sad, really. On the other hand instead of pointing a fucking gun at someone who's about to kill his or her self, I'd try to talk said person out of it... somehow. I mean, you're merely gonna do what they hope to accomplish, right?


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## Ley (Jun 3, 2011)

And nothing of value would be lost.

No, seriously. The people that decide to off themselves for stupid reasons 'OMG LIFE IS SOO HARRRD'. Shit I've been there before. It took me to get punched by a friend and yelled at until she was Hoarse to get me to realize that NOTHING in life is worth doing if it aint hard

And lol what are they going to do- fine the person that just offed himsef? The law against suicide is stupid. Though, if the weak people want to kill themselves, go for it. LEss weak people in the world. Natural selection, bitches.


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## NobleThorne (Jun 3, 2011)

Its a pretty iffy subject
Its wrong but how wrong
Catholics believe that suicide will cause you to go to hell
I never ran into scripture addressing that

and personally, I'd like to have the option to end it all if things seem hopeless, its a personal right


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

If things truly, truly are hopeless I'd probably end it.
The people that aren't patient enough to wait for things to get better, well... It's just kinda dumb.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

Better a quick death than a slow one.


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## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

Ley said:


> And nothing of value would be lost.
> 
> *Natural selection, bitches.*



EXACTLY.


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

ITT: People don't understand depression and suicide.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Is it really a law? can someone link to it or something, because I don't believe suicide is against the law. Assisted suicide exempt from that statement. 

Anyway I think it's a pity when people commit suicide. I've been there before and I am thankful I never went through with my plans. When I see suicide it's sad to think how the person was hurting and couldn't get the help they needed. 
I support people being watched after attempted suicide. I think someone needs to be in a stable state of mind to make that kind of decision, and they very rarely are. 

I also support assisted suicide if the person is terminal and in a lot of pain...yup.

Edit: I'm actually really pissed off by some of the people here. I'm disappointed in you.  Seems like a lot of people don't understand how incredibly hard it can be to pull someone out of clinical depression. There's always a scale to how bad it might be, just because you've experienced someone that did manage to pull themselves out of depression doesn't mean everyone can physically do that. 

As for survival of the fittest. I'd take Hemmingway over any one of you fuckers.


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## Unsilenced (Jun 3, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> If I'm holding a gun to my head, does it make sense for the police officer to tell me to drop the gun while pointing his own at me?


 

"Next man who makes a move, the ni***r gets it." 

:V


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

Blazing saddles?


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## Lobar (Jun 3, 2011)

Self-preservation is a necessary part of a healthy mental state, anyone suicidal that is not already facing an end-of-life situation regardless is by definition ill and those around them have a moral obligation to prevent it from killing them.


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## NobleThorne (Jun 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> "Next man who makes a move, the ni***r gets it."
> 
> :V


 
 thats a good movie


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## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Is it really a law? can someone link to it or something, because I don't believe suicide is against the law. Assisted suicide exempt from that statement.
> 
> Anyway I think it's a pity when people commit suicide. I've been there before and I am thankful I never went through with my plans. When I see suicide it's sad to think how the person was hurting and couldn't get the help they needed.
> I support people being watched after attempted suicide. I think someone needs to be in a stable state of mind to make that kind of decision, and they very rarely are.
> ...



The 'alot of pain' thing I agree with too. However, regarding attempted suicides... how hard is it really to kill yourself? There are plenty of tall buildings, parking garages don't have sides so big you can't climb over if you go to the top, etc. I'd argue that some of these people just don't know any other way to get attention after having tried things like cutting themselves the wrong way in obvious places so the scars are visible anytime they wear a t-shirt, etc. Maybe I'm just being cynical though since I've been depressed enough to seriously consider suicide before too.


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## Ley (Jun 3, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> ITT: People don't understand depression and suicide.


 
playing devils advocate

coming from a background of severe depression and mutilation, I feel like I've been to my own hell and back. Many people have gone through even worse, but it's not going to involve a shit fest of who is more depressed or whatever, but still

I got over it, and I nkow many people who have. im arrowing my venting towards the shits that do nothing except mope around and do nothing about their lives 

it pisses me off to know that they can get help, but cannot and therefore become powerless

but most poeple were adressing the fact that weak willed individuals end their lives because they feel that it is too hard. depression has nothing to do with it. Depression sucks (cymbalta can help :U) but even then, medication is available. For serious cases, it is tragic, but again i and many others refer to the impatient, negative people that seem to populate the damned fandom


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## Unsilenced (Jun 3, 2011)

Ley said:


> And lol what are they going to do- fine the person that just offed himsef? The law against suicide is stupid. Though, if the weak people want to kill themselves, go for it. LEss weak people in the world. *Natural selection, bitches.*


 
You know, when I was near offing myself, that was pretty much my rationale. Since there weren't any lions around to weed out weaklings like myself, I'd have to do it manually. Assisted evolution.


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## Fenrari (Jun 3, 2011)

Though I haven't personally experienced it (as in never had someone close to me kill themselves) But I've been depressed in the past and I've considered it once or twice.

In the end I accepted that death is nothing more than escape that is cheating nature. I think most people have a choice and that if they tried, they can find that they are wanted.


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

Also just a heads up for the people claiming that people who commit suicide are weak because they thought life sucked; you clearly don't understand the mindset of a suicidal person. It's not "oh boo hoo I failed my class time to die!" It's more along the lines of "I'm fucking terrible. My existence is painful for me and those around me. My future holds nothing and the world would be better off without me" You literally just feel nothing but self hatred.



Ley said:


> playing devils advocate
> 
> coming from a  background of severe depression and mutilation, I feel like I've been to  my own hell and back. Many people have gone through even worse, but  it's not going to involve a shit fest of who is more depressed or  whatever, but still
> 
> ...


 
Okay. You got over it. That's great. Not everyone does. It's not as easy for some people to just go get help randomly. Hell, I did nothing about my depression for a long ass time because I felt embarrassed bringing it up to my family. Again, you clearly seem to not understand severe depression.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

Feeling unwanted is not a new concept to me. There is always someone that cares though.
Yeah... Self-hatred was a struggle for me for a long time. I felt like I couldn't quit screwing things up for people.


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## Ley (Jun 3, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> Also just a heads up for the people claiming that people who commit suicide are weak because they thought life sucked; you clearly don't understand the mindset of a suicidal person. It's not "oh boo hoo I failed my class time to die!" It's more along the lines of "I'm fucking terrible. My existence is painful for me and those around me. My future holds nothing and the world would be better off without me" You literally just feel nothing but self hatred.


 
Alright. After cold water to the face (I was falling asleep), I can properly reply without sounding like a retarded ass. 

Again, I am indirectly/directly ranting about the _few _people who have offed themselves because of mundane reasons, of which I soley meant for most of my earlier posts. HOWEVER, suicide in and of itself is terrible and no one should ever go through it. It's like being in a deep dark black hole, and when someone does, it's sad because no one was around to help them. I was lucky enough that someone was for me.

The 'natural selection' comment was off handed, rude and insensitive- I'll be the first to call that. My argument still stands ONLY FOR THOSE WHO OFF THEMSELVES FOR DUMB REASONS, like- boyfriend dumped me, classes suck, parents hate me, im unpopular, stuff like that.

But when it boils down to a gut wrenching, painful, choking up bile emotion to wake up every day knowing you just want to crawl off and die quietly where you feel you won't be bothered with the shit any more- that is when it's serious and it's needing help. IT's sad, and horrid, and it's a very real thing. 

For the original post of the thread, though, suicide being 'illegal' really won't do anything. 'Didn't kill yourself? Pay me 500$'. Where's the logic in that? In death you don't have to pay shit. Assisted suicide for pain, like being in a terminal illness- I agree with it. I truly do.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> The 'alot of pain' thing I agree with too. However, regarding attempted suicides... how hard is it really to kill yourself? There are plenty of tall buildings, parking garages don't have sides so big you can't climb over if you go to the top, etc. I'd argue that some of these people just don't know any other way to get attention after having tried things like cutting themselves the wrong way in obvious places so the scars are visible anytime they wear a t-shirt, etc. Maybe I'm just being cynical though since I've been depressed enough to seriously consider suicide before too.



Who hasn't...and seriously don't you think maybe there's a big problem when someone is so sick they need to put themselves in danger in order to get help? Have you ever actually gone through clinical depression? Ever? I'm guessing no. People love to bitch about attempted suicides being selfish attention whores. These are people that have never had a moment where they believed themselves to be so worthless that the world would be a better place without them, but the catch is if you kill yourself you make others unhappy. Showing weakness is a burden on others, so you desperately try to get rid of the pain while trying to cover it up. You're dying for someone to notice and help, but too scared and hurt to ask for help. 
I honestly do feel sorry for anyone that has committed or attempted suicide. It is a mental disorder. It's not something you can just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. 
People with depression are weak yes, they're sick, but claiming "survival of the fittest" is a catchphrase of someone that can't empathize, or understand what "fittest" is. I'd hate to live in a world where depressed people got no help for their illness, especially when a large percentage of highly intelligent people are depressed.

Edit: my only problem with that Ley is the reasons for suicide aren't always clear. It may look stupid and simple, but for all you know it is something that is growing. I was depressed for years without diagnosis and failing a test put me into a terrible downward spiral that did have me start contemplating suicide. That sounds really shallow as a reason, but at the same time there were tons of other underlying causes that were harder to pin down. There was also the issue that I literally could not think rationally. I reserve judgment on any seemingly simple case.

That being said, I know there are drama whores that are physically fine, are not depressed, someone breaks up with them and they are SAD, so they bitch about wanting to commit suicide. those people suck.


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## Volkodav (Jun 3, 2011)

suicide is selfish


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

Ley said:


> Alright. After cold water to the face (I was falling asleep), I can properly reply without sounding like a retarded ass.
> 
> Again, I am indirectly/directly ranting about the _few _people who have offed themselves because of mundane reasons, of which I soley meant for most of my earlier posts. HOWEVER, suicide in and of itself is terrible and no one should ever go through it. It's like being in a deep dark black hole, and when someone does, it's sad because no one was around to help them. I was lucky enough that someone was for me.
> 
> ...


 I figured you were confusing stupid teenage angst with depression.

Thank you for you admitting what you said was insensitive though.


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## Enwon (Jun 3, 2011)

Ley said:


> My argument still stands ONLY FOR THOSE WHO OFF THEMSELVES FOR DUMB REASONS, like- boyfriend dumped me, classes suck, parents hate me, im unpopular, stuff like that.


Actually, there's a personality disorder for that.

Also, this "weakness" you're referring to may either be said personality disorder, or some serious issues with maturity and emotional stability.  Even people offing themselves for stupid reasons shouldn't be dismissed.


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

BetrayerOfNihil said:


> Oh, I'd go a lot deeper into my opinion and clear understanding of the matter, but I don't wanna get in an argument with some Internet tough guy with their "it's okay when weak people off themselves :awesomeface:" arguments and natural selection bullshit. I had enough of that on BL Forums.


 It's funny how you're complaining about internet tough guys when you're pretty much acting like, well, a smug internet tough guy about it. :/


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## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> Who hasn't...and seriously don't you think maybe there's a big problem when someone is so sick they need to put themselves in danger in order to get help? Have you ever actually gone through clinical depression? Ever? I'm guessing no. People love to bitch about attempted suicides being selfish attention whores. These are people that have never had a moment where they believed themselves to be so worthless that the world would be a better place without them, but the catch is if you kill yourself you make others unhappy. Showing weakness is a burden on others, so you desperately try to get rid of the pain while trying to cover it up. You're dying for someone to notice and help, but too scared and hurt to ask for help.
> I honestly do feel sorry for anyone that has committed or attempted suicide. It is a mental disorder. It's not something you can just pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
> People with depression are weak yes, they're sick, but claiming "survival of the fittest" is a catchphrase of someone that can't empathize, or understand what "fittest" is. I'd hate to live in a world where depressed people got no help for their illness, especially when a large percentage of highly intelligent people are depressed.



I'd argue that intelligent people are more depressed than stupid people, but stupid people commit suicide more successfully. Like after they murdered someone, or if they got laid off at age 50 after living paycheck to paycheck and giving a company their all. The reason I got depressed and still do (which was clinical) is because I can't get it through my head sometimes that I can't please all the people all the time, taking it to mean that I hurt or annoy more people than I help so might as well make things easier for everyone.


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## Unsilenced (Jun 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> suicide is selfish


 
We can share.

EDIT: Re: The intelligence of people who commit suicide: If you're talking about people who really mean it and in some cases actually go through with it? Um... yeah. Some pretty smart people have committed or attempted suicide. 

Now if you're just talking about people who "threaten" suicide as in "BAWWW HE BROKE UP WITH MEEE IMMA KILL MAHSELF!" 

Eh. 

Then you're a few deviations in the other direction.


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## Ley (Jun 3, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> Okay. You got over it. That's great. Not everyone does. It's not as easy for some people to just go get help randomly. Hell, I did nothing about my depression for a long ass time because I felt embarrassed bringing it up to my family. Again, you clearly seem to not understand severe depression.


 
I'm sorry that it came off that way and where I once was may not be where other people once were- but I still am pressing the argument that everyone should have an equal chance of living, and everyone should get the help needed. (reworded what I wanted to say, there we go) Hell I don't think I ever did.



Enwon said:


> Actually,  there's a personality disorder for that.
> 
> Also, this  "weakness" you're referring to may either be said personality disorder,  or some serious issues with maturity and emotional stability.  Even  people offing themselves for stupid reasons shouldn't be  dismissed.


 
I never dismissed that- or at least, I never meant it like that.. but  rereading it, it comes off like that. Well shit. Shitposting. 

Let me rephrase it, then- The three girls that offed themselves together that I knew, had done so because their boyfriends had dumped them. Growing up with them, I learned that they didn't have any mental problem history and were beautiful, smart, all stars in their respective sports and everything. I _literally _heard them say 'let's just do it'. 

I now retract most if not all what I have said and apologize, and will leave with this: Suicide is bad, and several times trying to do so took drastic measures to get back. I worked it up into a haughty mentality that I was a better living being to have cheated what my mind heart and soul so desperately wanted. So.. ending lamely, and fully admitting what I said was wrong (predominantly how I worded it).


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## NobleThorne (Jun 3, 2011)

they say electricity helps depressed people


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

Ley said:


> I'm sorry that it came off that way and where I once was may not be where other people once were- but I still am pressing the argument that everyone should have an equal chance of living, and everyone should get the help needed. (reworded what I wanted to say, there we go) Hell I don't think I ever did.


 I don't think anyone is arguing that people with depression shouldn't get help. It's just it tends to be very hard for them to get help. You don't want to bring it up because you're ashamed, embarrassed, afraid, etc.


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## Unsilenced (Jun 3, 2011)

NobleThorne said:


> they say electricity helps depressed people


 
Brb tazing emo kids.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> I'd argue that intelligent people are more depressed than stupid people, but stupid people commit suicide more successfully. Like after they murdered someone, or if they got laid off at age 50 after living paycheck to paycheck and giving a company their all. The reason I got depressed and still do (which was clinical) is because I can't get it through my head sometimes that I can't please all the people all the time, taking it to mean that I hurt or annoy more people than I help so might as well make things easier for everyone.


 Actually data shows that it's from a lot of things, lifestyle stuff and so on, and no I don't think they are more or less successful at it. I could name plenty of highly intelligent people that committed suicide successfully. It all depends on the person and their intent and until there's some data on success of suicide to IQ I doubt you could make a solid claim that any type of person is 'better" at it.


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## NobleThorne (Jun 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> Brb tazing emo kids.


 
I think Im one of those weird people that likes getting shocked,
I touched a welding machine with sweat soaked gloves and got a jolt, thought it felt good


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## Ley (Jun 3, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing that people with depression shouldn't get help. It's just it tends to be very hard for them to get help. You don't want to bring it up because you're ashamed, embarrassed, afraid, etc.


 
I never did because my mom threatened so send me back to the Alkatraz.  (Psych hospital in san antonio). 



Fay V said:


> That being said, I know there are drama  whores that are physically fine, are not depressed, someone breaks up  with them and they are SAD, so they bitch about wanting to commit  suicide. those people suck.


 
And this is what I should have adressed in my first post in general..

so yeah. never posting on severe lack of sleep again. :/


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## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> We can share.
> 
> EDIT: Re: The intelligence of people who commit suicide: If you're talking about people who really mean it and in some cases actually go through with it? Um... yeah. Some pretty smart people have committed or attempted suicide.
> 
> ...



I've seen that movie. In black and white (the tv color was messed up). I think it wouldn't have been as scary with the fake looking blood.


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## Unsilenced (Jun 3, 2011)

NobleThorne said:


> I think Im one of those weird people that likes getting shocked,
> I touched a welding machine with sweat soaked gloves and got a jolt, thought it felt good


 
Now see THAT'S how you help evolution!



Ley said:


> I never did because my mom threatened so send me back to the Alkatraz.  (Psych hospital in san antonio).



...


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## Enwon (Jun 3, 2011)

Ley said:


> I never dismissed that- or at least, I never meant it like that.. but  rereading it, it comes off like that. Well shit. Shitposting.
> 
> Let me rephrase it, then- The three girls that offed themselves together that I knew, had done so because their boyfriends had dumped them. Growing up with them, I learned that they didn't have any mental problem history and were beautiful, smart, all stars in their respective sports and everything. I _literally _heard them say 'let's just do it'.
> 
> I now retract most if not all what I have said and apologize, and will leave with this: Suicide is bad, and several times trying to do so took drastic measures to get back. I worked it up into a haughty mentality that I was a better living being to have cheated what my mind heart and soul so desperately wanted. So.. ending lamely, and fully admitting what I said was wrong (predominantly how I worded it).


 
It's fine, Ley.  You weren't thinking.  While I can't speak for the rest of the forums, I personally forgive you for the blunder.

As for those 3 girls... well... how well did you know them?  They could've had some serious issues that you didn't know about.  And even if they didn't, they were doing it as a group, so a mutual state of peer pressure would keep any of them from speaking up.  Also, the fact that they had everything great meant that being dumped was a much bigger issue for them than it would be otherwise.  I think it's important to remember the peer aspect, mainly.  If they weren't talking to each other, they probably wouldn't have killed themselves.


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## Bliss (Jun 3, 2011)

It's our national hobby! D:

I still have my piled up medication somewhere... If I remember right a certain philosophist said that his possibility to kill himself is the thing that kept him alive. I believe everyone has right to their life.


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## Volkodav (Jun 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> We can share.
> 
> EDIT: Re: The intelligence of people who commit suicide: If you're talking about people who really mean it and in some cases actually go through with it? Um... yeah. Some pretty smart people have committed or attempted suicide.
> 
> ...


 
No I think suicide in general is selfish. Someone I know attempted to overdose recently and it gave me a panic attack and I was in tears. To not take your friends/family into consideration is selfish [although those who are attepting to commit suicide aren't in the right mindset in the first place..] and it tears people apart.


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## Sam (Jun 3, 2011)

Suicide is quitting.

Rage quitting.


Seriously though, nothing good can amount to suicide and the many cases that I've seen of "Suicide" were mainly attention seekers with nothing better to do. If life is hard? So be it, when you finally reach your goal, it'll be that much sweeter.


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## Volkodav (Jun 3, 2011)

Sam said:


> Suicide is quitting.
> 
> Rage quitting.
> 
> ...


 
People who want to commit suicide don't look at the future positively and they don't think right. People who want to commit suicide feel as though someone has strapped grenades to them and they're going to pull the pins out


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## CerbrusNL (Jun 3, 2011)

NobleThorne said:


> I think Im one of those weird people that likes getting shocked,
> I touched a welding machine with sweat soaked gloves and got a jolt, thought it felt good


 Ever heard of e-stim? Don't ask if you haven't


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## Sam (Jun 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> People who want to commit suicide don't look at the future positively and they don't think right. People who want to commit suicide feel as though someone has strapped grenades to them and they're going to pull the pins out



Wait, so if that's so Clayton... They're going to kill themselves before someone kills them?

I get where you're coming from - 


EDIT: Yes, the not thinking right part would probably explain this. xD My bad.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Sam said:


> Suicide is quitting.
> 
> Rage quitting.
> 
> ...


 except to many there is no goal. The goal in the end is to remove yourself from the equation, and make the future better for everyone else.


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## Sam (Jun 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> except to many there is no goal. The goal in the end is to remove yourself from the equation, and make the future better for everyone else.



That's really sad that people get down to that point. That they think they are the problem.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Sam said:


> That's really sad that people get down to that point. That they think they are the problem.


 Yes it is, which is why it is important to try to get them help, and while the reason for the suicide may appear stupid and shallow, in reality the person's mind is so badly off that very simple things can push them over the edge. 

The worst part of this whole "survival of the fittest, suicidal people are selfish and weak, they're attention whores" rhetoric is it makes it harder for these people to get help. Someone contemplating suicide feels weak and helpless, and when they hear how weak and helpless people contemplating suicide is, they feel worse. 
If people understood such things better I honestly think suicides would happen less. Especially if people stopped mixing up teenage angst with depression.


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## CynicalCirno (Jun 3, 2011)

If just people didn't use the word "Suicide" when they're expressing weaker depression or need for attention.
I cannot see the difference between a person who wants to commit suicide and a person who doesn't, not anymore.

I still believe you should take any "I'm going to commit suicide" statement seriously - as if it's false, you have nothing to lose, and if it's true, you have the chance to prevent a person's death.


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## Sarcastic Coffeecup (Jun 3, 2011)

Why should anyone commit suicide, it doesn't solve anything it just pushes it to others. <-captain obvious comment here
I hate to be the last to hear when someone has tried to commit suicide.


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## moriko (Jun 3, 2011)

Ok did a quick read through and most of the talk on suicide has been about younger people and depression. What about assisted suicide for the elderly on or near their death bed. The ones that believe it's their time, but are stuck in a nursing home or on a hospital bed, being kept alive by money from family or taxes and/or building debt for those around them. I'd say it should be assisted at that point with a psychiatrist checking on their mental stability and rational for wanting to be dead. If you can logic your way into it to truly allow others around you to benefit, then why not? The people that die to literally save others with their physical bodies aren't (yet) considered suicidal, but the man in a hospital bed at 90 donating what's left of his life savings and wanting death in order to save the financial cost of those around him would be considered unstable.

Anyone want to pick over that instead of the teen depression that's been mostly talked about? If someone can logically give reason for their death benefiting those around them, be it others health, or finances, could it be found sane?


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## Bliss (Jun 3, 2011)

What kind of psychiatrist would be able to tell if a person is 'legitimate' in his or her choice to die... Seems like a lot of this crap is subjective.


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## Recel (Jun 3, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> What kind of psychiatrist would be able to tell if a person is 'legitimate' in his or her choice to die... Seems like a lot of this crap is subjective.



There is no such thing. There is never a good reason to end your life, ever. Just like there is no such thing as "weak" people, or "unneeded" people. Its just a crappy excuse to say I shouldnt live, or to not care about the person who is commiting suicide.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Recel said:


> There is no such thing. There is never a good reason to end your life, ever. Just like there is no such thing as "weak" people, or "unneeded" people. Its just a crappy excuse to say I shouldnt live, or to not care about the person who is commiting suicide.


 If you're refering to depression, there is no legitimate choice no, as they aren't in the right state of mind. In terms of assisted suicide, that's different. 
I personally support assisted suicide. I believe that someone in physical pain and in a terminal condition should have the ability to take their own life. there is no reason to have someone suffer for a week or two in unimaginable pain simply because others do not think it is right to take their life. 

Now of course there will be a lot of work to be done. Procedures will need to be put in place to differentiate where the line should be on when it is okay, but that's nothing new. woo bioethics >.>


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## Bliss (Jun 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> If you're refering to depression, there is no legitimate choice no, as they aren't in the right state of mind. In terms of assisted suicide, that's different.
> I personally support assisted suicide. I believe that someone in physical pain and in a terminal condition should have the ability to take their own life. there is no reason to have someone suffer for a week or two in unimaginable pain simply because others do not think it is right to take their life.
> 
> Now of course there will be a lot of work to be done. Procedures will need to be put in place to differentiate where the line should be on when it is okay, but that's nothing new. woo bioethics >.>


Including only somatic illnesses I do not understand. Considering how much I've been bombarded with how mental health problems are practically the same as suffering from a somatic illness, it seems hypocritical.


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## Fay V (Jun 3, 2011)

Lizzie said:


> Including only somatic illnesses I do not understand. Considering how much I've been bombarded with how mental health problems are practically the same as suffering from a somatic illness, it seems hypocritical.


 How is that hypocritical exactly?
First of all I didn't exclude all mental health issues. I used physical illness as a solid example. 
The reason I referred to physical illness only is it is at the moment the only one I believe I could successfully defend putting into procedure at this moment. What I feel is right, and what I feel can be successfully put into procedure are two different things. 

The problem with mental illness is dealing with judgment. Is the person of sound mind and reason? In a case of physical illness that is incredibly simple. They are of sound mind and want to end pain which we can attest they have. In the case of someone with severe dementia that is harder to determine, because often they aren't of sound mind. In fact it gets to the point that they can not make their own decisions. Something like this ties into a greater part of medical procedure and ethics in terms of when can we act on someone's wishes when we know they are not of sound mind. 

There are many unfortunate cases where a person does have a moment of clarity and wants to kill themselves. I would have no ethical problem doing that on the individual level, but I talk about bioethics and things on a larger level in creating procedures for doctors to go by. In those cases we need a more solid grounding to make sure the procedure is ethical. 

Now I will say that I don't think depression should be considered for assisted suicide. I think that someone with clinical depression should receive treatment, then when their body chemistry is working well again they can decide.


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## LizardKing (Jun 3, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> If I'm holding a gun to my head, does it make sense for the police officer to tell me to drop the gun while pointing his own at me?



Just thought I'd point out that it's probably for the officer's own protection (or other people around), since they're dealing with an obviously unstable individual with a loaded weapon. Suicidal or not, it's still a gun, and it can still kill people.

Other than that, there's not really anything I wish to add to the subject that hasn't been said.


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## Ley (Jun 3, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> ...


 
... uagh. Blahblahblahangst. I lived with my dad directly after a very abusive relationship that my mom had with little sister's father, and because I didn't say or do anything that I wanted and let myself be pushed around by a bunch of kids, neglected, and clumsy, many of the accidents were the reason she stuffed me in the loony bin. On 'examination' there, docs said I was fine, just lonely and I couldn't speak up. There I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and Adhd. blahblahblah more angst. 

Again, I say this stuff as it is true, and never ever to gain pity. What happened, happened, and there's nothing anyone can do to 'make it better'. I survived it, and now I look forward to the rest of my life. 




Enwon said:


> It's fine, Ley. You weren't thinking. While I can't speak for the rest of the forums, I personally forgive you for the blunder.
> 
> As for those 3 girls... well... how well did you know them? They could've had some serious issues that you didn't know about. And even if they didn't, they were doing it as a group, so a mutual state of peer pressure would keep any of them from speaking up. Also, the fact that they had everything great meant that being dumped was a much bigger issue for them than it would be otherwise. I think it's important to remember the peer aspect, mainly. If they weren't talking to each other, they probably wouldn't have killed themselves.



I was their next door neighbor and two of the girls really, really good friends. They talked to me once about it almost candidly, as if talking about the time of day. The third girl said she was 'bored' and mad her dad didn't get her the viper.


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## Tycho (Jun 3, 2011)

"Suicide = a permanent solution to what is usually a temporary problem"

I'm sure most of you have heard that before but it bears repeating.

Scolding a suicidal person makes about as much sense as punching a dead person in the face for looking at you funny.  When they're suicidal appeals to logic (such as the "permanent solution" statement) seem like they are falling on deaf ears.  Indeed, logic is not a suicidal person's strongest suit - in their suicidal state they are creatures of almost pure emotion.  Emotional appeals must be made before logic can be introduced - you need to break the ice trapping them in the waters of abject despair before you can throw them a life preserver.


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## Deo (Jun 3, 2011)

I'd say that someone who wants to off themselves for superflourous reasons probably has is mentally unstable, and as we don't grant children the right/responsibility to their own health and safety we also don't grant the right to those who are having mental troubles. (like you cannot consent if your are mentally inhibited). These people who suffer from depression or other things that could impede rational decision making should be protected from taking their own life and helped out of this hard time in their lives. 

But those who wish to end their life for reasons like massive chronic pain, or they are already dying, and are mentally sound should be allowed to.

However, it's an iffy topic because a person does have a right to do what they want to with their body and their life, and they are the end decider.


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## Cain (Jun 3, 2011)

I sense this will eventually hit the 1000 post mark, or atleast the 500 post mark. 

My views? It depends on the circumstances. Of course, if the person is unable to make their own sensible decisions, e.g they're mentally retarded, etc, then there would have to be certain guidelines on how to approach this, but I always thought that how you'd have to pay a fine, or whatever if you committed suicide but failed was quite idiotic, because some of the main causes of suicide are, what; depression...debt...etc. 

But definitely, as Deo has said, those who suffer from depression, or have a mental condition that may hinder their decision making, there should be steps that are generally against suicide for these people, but for the people who know what they're doing, generally why, i'd have to say, even though it may affect that person's family greatly, etc, it's their decision. As sentient beings, we have the right to be able to make our own decisions, be them good or bad, and to accept the consequences, if there are any.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

Deo said:


> I'd say that someone who wants to off themselves for superflourous reasons probably has is mentally unstable, and as we don't grant children the right/responsibility to their own health and safety we also don't grant the right to those who are having mental troubles. (like you cannot consent if your are mentally inhibited). These people who suffer from depression or other things that could impede rational decision making should be protected from taking their own life and helped out of this hard time in their lives.
> 
> But those who wish to end their life for reasons like massive chronic pain, or they are already dying, and are mentally sound should be allowed to.
> 
> However, it's an iffy topic because a person does have a right to do what they want to with their body and their life, and they are the end decider.


 
Yeah, it's very iffy. However, I agree that the only time it would really be acceptable was if the victim is suffering unbearably and know they're going to die anyway. The emotional reasons... Well... You don't really know how the person's actually feeling, so making a judgement call on why they killed themselves is kinda presumptuous... On the other hand it's safe to say if you have people that care, it's selfish; it's horribly sad and leaves the people left behind to deal with a mess and ultimately leaves them torn apart.


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## Radiohead (Jun 3, 2011)

Whatever they want to do. It's not my place to try and judge if someone is "justified" in killing themselves. It's their life.

Just keep in mind though that people will miss you. That's it, really. 

The only other note I have to add is that if they're obviously psychotic and unable to function in society and they commit suicide, don't try to apply the same. A teen committing suicide due to trauma or depression is not the same as someone who can't even comprehend right and wrong.


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## Frokusblakah (Jun 3, 2011)

Fay V said:


> and make the future better for everyone else.



I think most people who commit suicide aren't thinking about everybody else in the slightest, which is part of the problem.


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

Frokusblakah said:


> I think most people who commit suicide aren't thinking about everybody else in the slightest, which is part of the problem.


 Not exactly. In that state of mind you are thinking that the world would be better off for everyone if you were dead.


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## Frokusblakah (Jun 3, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> Not exactly. In that state of mind you are thinking that the world would be better off for everyone if you were dead.



Which is part of them being so wrapped up in their own little world that they've, for whatever reason, refused to let other people into or help.


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## moriko (Jun 3, 2011)

Speaking of this thread after posting this morning. I heard on the radio while driving about http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/03/report-dr-jack-kevorkian-dead/ Kevorkian died of natural causes at 83 today. With the fact that the guy he helped had Lou Gherig's disease, I could see why someone wouldn't want to live when it get's to the point you can't even breathe on your own.


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## STB (Jun 3, 2011)

Suicide disgusts me. People who off themselves deserve no sympathy IMO.


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## Mentova (Jun 3, 2011)

Frokusblakah said:


> Which is part of them being so wrapped up in their own little world that they've, for whatever reason, refused to let other people into or help.


 Have you read this thread at all? They don't get help because they feel negatively about it. It's really hard to do. You don't want to tell anyone about it because you're afraid, embarrassed, you feel stupid, or you worry about them just not giving a shit. It's not as easy as just going "Hey guys I want to die take me to a therapist."


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## Frokusblakah (Jun 3, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> Have you read this thread at all? They don't get help because they feel negatively about it. It's really hard to do. You don't want to tell anyone about it because you're afraid, embarrassed, you feel stupid, or you worry about them just not giving a shit. It's not as easy as just going "Hey guys I want to die take me to a therapist."


 
No, its just easier to kill yourself. *headslap*

It sure is a great thing that life is about doing what's easiest!


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## Alstor (Jun 3, 2011)

I really feel that  most of you think that the mind of a suicidal person is just a lot of sadness. It's not. It's usually filled with regret and pessimism over past events that may have happened days, weeks, months, or even years ago. It's usually the feeling of being so small in a giant petri dish of problems that are usually identified incorrectly with a blurry, smudged microscope. It's usually being crushed by so much sorrow that you go numb, wanting to feel but just can't. And with each little problem in the future, the weight gets larger. And soon enough, you want to end it before it crushes you completely, but you can't figure out how, as the fact that you have all the regrets, worries, and sadness pressing on top of you. But there is always that escape that every living thing with a brain knows about: death.

Watch as people try to make the above more politically correct. And I agree with what the others are saying, but this is what I see.


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## Enwon (Jun 3, 2011)

Frokusblakah said:


> I think most people who commit suicide aren't thinking about everybody else in the slightest, which is part of the problem.


I spent 3 months dating someone who had some pretty nasty depression issues.  One night, he was feeling suicidal, and came to me.  And one of the things he said was that the world would be a better place without him, that he had no purpose in the world, and that none of the people around him would miss him.  Implying that suicidal people are selfish is incorrect.  The better term is "irrational".  Because it is irrational to think everyone wants you dead.  But not selfish.  Some individuals think that it's selfish to remain, leeching off others, continuing to exist.

They are thinking about everyone else.  They're just not able to think rationally.



STB said:


> Suicide disgusts me. People who off themselves deserve no sympathy IMO.


If you want to troll, be less obvious.


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## Frokusblakah (Jun 3, 2011)

Enwon said:


> I spent 3 months dating someone who had some pretty nasty depression issues.  One night, he was feeling suicidal, and came to me.  And one of the things he said was that the world would be a better place without him, that he had no purpose in the world, and that none of the people around him would miss him.  Implying that suicidal people are selfish is incorrect.  The better term is "irrational".  Because it is irrational to think everyone wants you dead.  But not selfish.  Some individuals think that it's selfish to remain, leeching off others, continuing to exist.



Yeah, that is probably a better term for it, but I guess I'm biased.  My mother attempted suicide when I was a kid and me and my sisters were the ones that had to deal with it.  As far as I know she did it because of what her and her "at the moment" boyfriend were going through.  I think she is a selfish bitch.

I'm sure she had her reasons for not pulling her act together, but thanks to that whole cascade of events I ended up in foster care.


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## Corto (Jun 3, 2011)

I don't think there's anything I can say that hasn't been mentioned already. When someone is about to commit suicide caused by depression, you aren't right in the head. It's not attention whoring. Often times you commit suicide exactly because you don't see the point in bothering someone else with your problems. You are in a very dark place, one incredibly hard to escape from, and you honest to God can't see any other way out. You don't see a future for yourself. You think all the time you've spent in this Earth has been wasted. You don't see any bad side to offing yourself because, hey, maybe it'll stop the pain and nothing of value will be lost to the human race. 

The worst about suicides is the damage you cause to others. No matter how depressive, how little you realize it, there's a huge chance someone loves you. Maybe not "loves" loves, but cares greatly about you. Some friend, some family member, etc. 
I used to have some much harsher opinion of suicidal people, but with some perspective I've come to understand much better. Suicide is the ultimate call for help.



STB said:


> Suicide disgusts me. People who off themselves deserve no sympathy IMO.


 Fuck you. Don't reply to this thread again.


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## STB (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm just voicing my opinion. When I was in HS, two people killed themselves in the 4 years I was there. It's very sad yeah, but suicide is the ultimate disrespect to yourself. Life can never be that bad.


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## Sai_Wolf (Jun 3, 2011)

STB said:


> I'm just voicing my opinion. When I was in HS, two people killed themselves in the 4 years I was there. It's very sad yeah, but suicide is the ultimate disrespect to yourself. Life can never be that bad.



You clearly have not graduated beyond HS.

Life can be that bad. And then much much fucking worse.


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## STB (Jun 3, 2011)

Sai_Wolf said:


> You clearly have not graduated beyond HS.
> 
> Life can be that bad. And then much much fucking worse.


 
I don't mean to offend, I'm just saying what I think. I've never met, seen, or heard of anyones life being bad enough to kill themselves. But this is coming from someone who has an obnoxiously positive view on life. I'm sorry if I struck a nerve guys, I didn't mean to.


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## Bliss (Jun 3, 2011)

Frokusblakah said:


> Yeah, that is probably a better term for it, but I guess I'm biased.  My mother attempted suicide when I was a kid and me and my sisters were the ones that had to deal with it.  As far as I know she did it because of what her and her "at the moment" boyfriend were going through.  I think she is a selfish bitch.
> 
> I'm sure she had her reasons for not pulling her act together, but thanks to that whole cascade of events I ended up in foster care.


Interesting how opinions may differ.


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## Willow (Jun 3, 2011)

Technically, suicide is illegal, but it's one of those laws you really can't do much about because how do you arrest a dead man?
Suicide is also a sin I believe according to the bible. 

I honestly hate people who brush suicide victims (because yes, they are victims) off and act like they were only doing it for attention. 
But what a lot of them fail to realize is that if they were really doing it for attention, not only would they not have done it in the first place but they would have probably threatened with it too. 

People who are seriously depressed or are going through serious emotional trauma due to some sort of event aren't usually in the right set of mind, not only that but they probably feel as if no one can help them. That's why so many kids who have been bullied severely kill themselves because of that feeling. And it doesn't help that people belittle the situation, tell them to get over it, or that it's not a big deal. 

And then to belittle the reason that caused their death is sick too. Because they obviously couldn't handle life or whatever. It's obvious you've never actually been there. .-.


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## Torrijos-sama (Jun 3, 2011)

Everyone has a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and thus should have the freedom to choose how they end their life, especially to avoid or end suffering.


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## Corto (Jun 3, 2011)

STB said:


> I've never met, seen, or heard of anyones life being bad enough to kill themselves.


 Congratulations then. You must live a very sheltered life. But when you leave Willy Wonka's factory it'll be a rude awakening. 

Did you read any of the other replies, at all? Sometimes you find yourself in a situation where suicide seems like the only option. Sometimes your brain messes up and there seems to be no other way out. Sometimes it's really necessary, sometimes you're sick and need help, sometimes you find yourself in a darkness that seems impossible to leave. 

I am really happy for you, honestly. You have a positive view of the world and live a happy life that makes suicide seem like the most retarded thing. This is something good, and I celebrate you for it. It still doesn't mean you need to be a bitch and say that every case of suicide is being disgusting and deserves no sympathy. Sometimes those that off themselves are the ones that needed sympathy the most.


I understand, and share, disgust at the retards that turned suicide, or at least suicidal thoughts, into a fashion. They only make the people with real problems try and hide theirs so they don't seem like attention whores, thus cutting any chance they have of getting help. Eventually it all becomes too much and you collapse, which sometimes leads to the ultimate escape. It's a fucking pity, but something that happens. And believe me, it's not a rational thing. It's just very hard to escape from such thoughts when you can't even control what you think or feel.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 3, 2011)

Frokusblakah said:


> Which is part of them being so wrapped up in their own little world that they've, for whatever reason, refused to let other people into or help.


 
Most of the problem with it is the depression fogs out everything. Everything you know and love becomes an obscure smudge on a nasty bathroom mirror. You can't see the truth through all the shit messing up the picture. I know I have had my rough times. My darkest days were full of depression I could not haul myself out of so I resorted to hard drugs and booze. It got to the point I attempted many times even cutting my own throat open in a stupor. I noticed every time I tried I was all foggy minded.

Nothing makes rational sense, nothing can make you smile and everyone around you would be better off you think if you just were to die. Anyone saying people are just better to off themselves have not hit the ultimate rock bottom I don't think. Once you have and they help you out of the hole you see things differently and everything seems like a blessing. People who have tried and failed and are helped look back and try to ignore the thoughts they once had and embrace life with a vigor most people would envy. Makes you appreciate things more.



STB said:


> Suicide disgusts me. People who off themselves deserve no sympathy IMO.


 
Fuck off.


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## Wolf-Bone (Jun 3, 2011)

I get so fucking tired of hearing people say "suicide is selfish", as if a person's entire purpose in life is to suffer and be miserable and just exist _for your benefit_. If that's not a pretty fucking selfish mentality itself, I don't know what it is. Look, I don't _like_ the fact people commit suicide. I've had people and even my girlfriend tell me they think I'm suicidal sometimes, and supposedly if I was, I wouldn't even realize it. I certainly don't like entertaining the thought. So there should be no fucking question whatsoever, I'm hardly "pro" suicide, but people's moralistic arguments really do more harm than good, I think it's pretty safe to say after how long humanity's been around and finding new, exciting and creative ways to off itself since day one. I think it's pretty clear that it's in our nature to some extent. We're a pretty self-destructive species.


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## Tewin Follow (Jun 3, 2011)

NobleThorne said:


> Catholics believe that suicide will cause you to go to hell
> I never ran into scripture addressing that


 
I think they're stretching the "thou shalt not kill, dude" to include yourself. It's a pretty horrible thing to tell someone, though. I mean, God KNOWS what your reasons were, so I'd imagine he's above just punishing for the "crime" rather than looking into what reasons were beind it.


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## Tycho (Jun 3, 2011)

Wolf-Bone said:


> We're a pretty self-destructive species.


 
We DO have an unusual capacity for it.  Comes with the whole "sapience" thing, I suppose.


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## Wolf-Bone (Jun 3, 2011)

Pretty much everything modern Christians "know" about Hell comes not from the bible, but from Dante's Inferno (no, not the game you nitwits), which _itself_ is borrowed as much from Old Europe paganism as anything. The bible says next to nothing about Hell.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

Harebelle said:


> I think they're stretching the "thou shalt not kill, dude" to include yourself. It's a pretty horrible thing to tell someone, though. I mean, God KNOWS what your reasons were, so I'd imagine he's above just punishing for the "crime" rather than looking into what reasons were beind it.


 
All sins are forgiven. 'Nough said... so glad I'm no longer part of the whole Catholic organization; our priest was an asshole. Now, back to suicide before this becomes another theological discussion <_< >_>

EDIT: I didn't say it was a sin. Can't really make a call on that since it's not exactly covered in Scripture.


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## Tewin Follow (Jun 3, 2011)

Is suicide illegal so the police have a definite "reason" to stop someone topping themselves?


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## nontoxic (Jun 3, 2011)

I spent about two years in a deep hole of depression, with one attempt and another close call. I knew that at least my family would miss me, but for some reason I couldn't get it out of my head that they would be better off without me, despite what they thought. I didn't think life was worth it. It seemed like a lot of work just to die one day anyway. I'm glad I'm past this point in my life, but it still scares me. Depression that deep is a bad place to be.


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## Bambi (Jun 3, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> (There's an abortion thread, so I figured this was along the same lines.)
> 
> Some kids like it, others don't.
> 
> My biggest concern is wondering why suicide is illegal. If someone wants to kill themselves shouldn't they be allowed to?


No, and that's mostly because suicide is generally seen as a cry for help, and the people who threaten it as an action usually under the influence of something they're not yet capable of being above -- legitimizing it is an act that simply ignores the causes and effects of someone thinking that behavior is appropriate.


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## Corto (Jun 3, 2011)

Harebelle said:


> I think they're stretching the "thou shalt not kill, dude" to include yourself. It's a pretty horrible thing to tell someone, though. I mean, God KNOWS what your reasons were, so I'd imagine he's above just punishing for the "crime" rather than looking into what reasons were beind it.


 Kinda. The point is that life is the biggest gift God gave us. Killing yourself is the ultimate spit to the face of God: "Your" life is not really yours, but his. You take this gift and throw it away. Besides, offing yourself means no chance of last rites, no confession, no absolution. 

As a side note, I am not completely sure, but besides the whole "gut yourself to regain some honor" thing the Japanese had going off, I believe there is no religion that doesn't see suicide as the ultimate "fuck you, deity or spirit or whatever". They all send you to their version of Hell. 

This is an interesting read. I know, comedy site and all, but Wong makes lots of sense, and it's fun to read. FUN FACT: I wrote "cracked suicide" in the firefox address bar and it directed me straight away to this article. Nice.


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## Tycho (Jun 3, 2011)

corto, is that anim in your sig from the Batman animated series? I swear I've seen it somewhere before.

And I was under the impression that hara-kiri/seppuku is more of a "I fucked up bad, I surrender my life as recompense to those I have failed in lieu of what I said I would do for them" or something rather than a "flip the bird to the gods" thing.


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## Recel (Jun 3, 2011)

Tycho said:


> corto, is that anim in your sig from the Batman animated series? I swear I've seen it somewhere before.



Pearl Jam - Do the evolution

Its a clip. Tho its stile is the same (same animator maybe?)

Edit: Also, to be on topic too... commiting suicide is bad, but leting someone commiting suicide, or disregarding that he/she wants to commit suicide is much worse. You dont let people just die for any reason.


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## Radiohead (Jun 3, 2011)

This thread makes me wonder what the "acceptable level" of justification is in committing suicide. I'm pretty sure I'd be allowed under even the stricter acceptable levels of life fuckery.


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## Garfang (Jun 3, 2011)

Clayton said:


> suicide is selfish



yes! when you say i want to kill my self its like stop your self from  experience life it self. Yeah true its your body and stuff like that.  and i agree with Clayton.


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## Thatch (Jun 3, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> My biggest concern is wondering why suicide is illegal.


 
Dead people can't pay taxes.



Garfang said:


> yes! when you say i want to kill my self its like stop your self from  experience life it self. Yeah true its your body and stuff like that.  and i agree with Clayton.


 
BREAKING NEWS! PEOPLE ARE SELFISH! MORE AT 11!


I sure as hell wouldn't want someone close to my heart commiting suicide, but that would be my problem that me and other people close to the person should resolve, no one else should intervene in it for moral reasons, especially the law. I don't see why I should care to keep someone I don't know from taking their life, it's theirs to do with as they wish.


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## Tycho (Jun 3, 2011)

Radiohead said:


> This thread makes me wonder what the "acceptable level" of justification is in committing suicide. I'm pretty sure I'd be allowed under even the stricter acceptable levels of life fuckery.


 
What constitutes acceptable grounds for suicide is obviously going to be a very nebulous thing and is going to change from one person's opinion to the next.  Great pain and suffering with no hope of a remedy is good enough for some people.  Others will basically tell you "oh we're so sorry for you" and then demand that you suck it up and stick it out to the very end (how nice of them).  Some say deliberate self-sacrifice for a greater good is acceptable and even commendable.  Some say leaving dependents behind is wholly unacceptable, others say it's nobody's damn business whether you off yourself or not and no one should have a legal right to intervene.  The whole idea of going to some eternal bad place for taking your own life seems profoundly asinine to me, but then the concept of the bad place itself is asinine in light of pretty much everything else I read.  Something that bitter and vengeful people fantasize about as a way of comforting themselves and reassuring themselves that they're better than someone else.


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## Corto (Jun 3, 2011)

Tycho said:


> And I was under the impression that hara-kiri/seppuku is more of a "I fucked up bad, I surrender my life as recompense to those I have failed in lieu of what I said I would do for them" or something rather than a "flip the bird to the gods" thing.


 


> As a side note, I am not completely sure, but *besides* the whole "gut  yourself to regain some honor" thing the Japanese had going off, I  believe there is no religion that doesn't see suicide as the ultimate  "fuck you, deity or spirit or whatever". They all send you to their  version of Hell.



Also the animator made Spawn.


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## Tycho (Jun 3, 2011)

Corto said:


> Also the animator made Spawn.


 
herp derp how does i read post

My bad.


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## Wolf-Bone (Jun 3, 2011)

HaHa, HaHa,
This Thread
Best Thread
Bar None!!1


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## Cocobanana (Jun 3, 2011)

STB said:


> I'm just voicing my opinion. When I was in HS, two people killed themselves in the 4 years I was there. It's very sad yeah, but suicide is the ultimate disrespect to yourself. Life can never be that bad.



'That bad' is a subjective thing. Earlier in this thread I talked about survival of the fittest but wasn't really thinking about it, especially since I'm one who has seriously considered going all the way multiple times in my life, looking at the fact my parents don't seem to know anything about me and how I don't have any real life friends and my life doesn't seem to be going anywhere though I try to make it do so.

Enough whining about me though, the whole reason suicide comes up is when someone thinks about every option and can't find one. Like, it seems as if there's no amount of waiting or enduring a pain that will make it better so if we just want to be happy and don't think we'll ever find that again, why wait? Even crazier than suicide in that instance is purposefully allowing ourselves to get tortured for no reason. So unless you're a masochist in that situation... suicide sometimes seems like the best option...


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## BlackDragonAlpha (Jun 3, 2011)

If suicide was legalized, then what is life for?
When only a thing or two gets you depressed, will you kill yourself like a wuss? Or deal with it and move on like any sane living being?

It's pretty stupid committing suicide. If you're going to end your life, why didn't you end it when you were born?


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## Corto (Jun 3, 2011)

BlackDragonAlpha said:


> It's pretty stupid committing suicide. If you're going to end your life, why didn't you end it when you were born?


 Because my arms were too weak to choke myself with the umbilical chord.


I have a doubt right here. Are you trying (and miserably failing) to post an overenthusiastic speech or motto to lift our depressive spirits, or are you just that much of an asshole that you decided to barge in, ignore the multiple posts with explanations about how depression is an actual disease and fucks with your head and it's not being a pussy when you want to kill yourself, including the posts where I told the other user that did this to fuck off?

EDIT: I lean towards option 1. You seem like a nice guy, but your post really didn't come out well.


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## Ad Hoc (Jun 3, 2011)

I will likely end myself. I have an incurable degenerative disorder which causes intense chronic pain/debilitation and is not always responsive to pain killers, but is not often fatal by itself. I think the option should be available to me. I will respect the judgments of those who wish to judge when they experience the irreversible drop in quality of life that I will experience. 

I knew a woman who killed herself a few years ago. She had been depressed, well, for most of her life--I never knew the whole story, but she was badly abused as a child, and I believe it started there. She tried so many drugs, so many lifestyle changes, so many therapies. (Even electroshock therapy.) None of it helped and she only got worse. When she died, there was mourning, but once that passed and we thought about it rationally, I don't think anyone who even remotely knew her thought of her as cowardly or selfish. She put up a hell of a fight. Her pain is over now. I would not begrudge her even if it were my place to do so.


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## Volkodav (Jun 3, 2011)

Sam said:


> Wait, so if that's so Clayton... They're going to kill themselves before someone kills them?
> 
> I get where you're coming from -
> 
> ...


 
Nooo lmao I meant that's what it feels like to them. To them, there is no future, there is no "it will get better". To them the only option is death. You get it? The grenade thing was metaphorical I guess.

This "why would someone kill themselves?? that's stupid!" shit isn't taken into consideration by the person wanting to kill themselves, they don't think about family or friends, they don't think about the future, they don't think about getting help. This is not selfish though, it's their brain telling them to do something ridiculous


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## Thatch (Jun 3, 2011)

BlackDragonAlpha said:


> If suicide was legalized, then what is life for?


 
What is it for when it's still illegal?

Rhetorical questions that turn people AWAY from your point. How avant-garde.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

yeah, when you think about it, it is a pretty rediculous thing to resort to... actually "extreme" is a better word for it.


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## Wolf-Bone (Jun 3, 2011)

Guys
Do you think Layne Staley an hero'd? :-(
I'm not sure myself
*sigh* suicide
it's a bitch


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 3, 2011)

"Sometimes dead is better"

While I think everyone needs as much help as humanly possible to get out of the hole I know there are some people who while are not lost causes but are so mangled in the head I don't think it is fixable. To those who are unable to be helped I apologize. Nothing gets to me quicker than someone depressed. I know what it's like and feeling like a trapped animal trying to gnaw its own foot off to get out of the trap. At that point you would do anything even if it ment gnawing off your own neck if it was feasible. I really feel sorry for those who can't climb out helped or not. Some people hurt so much emotionally it hurts them physically. I had that. No amount of drugs could make me stop hurting. For some death is the only way out. I wish there was something more medically that you can do for them.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

The thing I really hate is when someone is told to "get over it"


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## Thatch (Jun 3, 2011)

luti-kriss said:


> The thing I really hate is when someone is told to "get over it"


 
Get over it.


Hurr, I'm so ironic.


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## Namba (Jun 3, 2011)

Thatch said:


> Get over it.
> 
> 
> Hurr, I'm so ironic.



Oh, you.


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## Wolf-Bone (Jun 3, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:
			
		

> No amount of drugs could make me stop hurting.



Fuck, took the words right out my mouth.


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## Grey Wolverine (Jun 3, 2011)

I hate the topic in general, my cousin killed herself a few years ago after she was treated for clinical depression and the meds didn't work. The worst part is, she has an identical twin, and she was mortified. And I can't really blame her, now my aunt Jay, uncle Frannie, and their 7 remaining daughters work charities and do those walks to raise awareness about suicide.


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## south syde dobe (Jun 4, 2011)

Unsilenced said:


> "Next man who makes a move, the ni***r gets it."
> 
> :V



*moves*

In anycase I've now don't care if someone wants to commit suicide, if that's what they want then let them have it just make sure it's not public or anything like some idiots tend to do for fucking attention


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## Unsilenced (Jun 4, 2011)

Radiohead said:


> This thread makes me wonder what the "acceptable level" of justification is in committing suicide. I'm pretty sure I'd be allowed under even the stricter acceptable levels of life fuckery.


 
"Department of Self-Termination? Yeah I'd like to apply for a license."

EDIT: "$75 processing fee, huh? Well... um... do you take checks?"


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## Willow (Jun 4, 2011)

BlackDragonAlpha said:


> It's pretty stupid committing suicide. If you're going to end your life, why didn't you end it when you were born?


 This is a pretty stupid argument right here and I think trying to justify it with an answer would just be a waste of time.


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## Namba (Jun 4, 2011)

I second that...
...but hey, it's all chill bro.


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## Zaraphayx (Jun 4, 2011)

What on Earth instilled this idea that people who commit suicide are all just like "Well my life is pretty swell but this guy called me a buttface online this afternoon so I might as well down the bottle of aspirin"

Most people who attempt have been considering it for a long fucking time and emotionally stressful events like getting fired/dumped etc just tip them over the edge.


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## Namba (Jun 4, 2011)

I could never really put my finger on that one.


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## Commiecomrade (Jun 4, 2011)

Cocobanana said:


> If I'm holding a gun to my head, does it make sense for the police officer to tell me to drop the gun while pointing his own at me?


 
I'd have my gun trained too if I had to encounter a mentally unstable person with a weapon. Just in case.


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## Volkodav (Jun 4, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> "Sometimes dead is better"
> 
> While I think everyone needs as much help as humanly possible to get out of the hole I know there are some people who while are not lost causes but are so mangled in the head I don't think it is fixable. To those who are unable to be helped I apologize. Nothing gets to me quicker than someone depressed. I know what it's like and feeling like a trapped animal trying to gnaw its own foot off to get out of the trap. At that point you would do anything even if it ment gnawing off your own neck if it was feasible. I really feel sorry for those who can't climb out helped or not. Some people hurt so much emotionally it hurts them physically. I had that. No amount of drugs could make me stop hurting. For some death is the only way out. I wish there was something more medically that you can do for them.


 
I can't picture you ever being severely depressed. You always sound so upbeat and in a good mood.


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## keretceres (Jun 4, 2011)

|As far as legislation is concerned in the UK the Suicide act of 1961 repealed the prosecution of people who had attempted suicide. Suicide up till then was treated as a capital offense if the defendant failed to prove an insanity plea. I don't know about the states though...


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## Ji Unit (Jun 4, 2011)

This thread >__>

Remind me to never say I feel bad on the internet, jeez.


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## Hakar Kerarmor (Jun 4, 2011)

luti-kriss said:


> I could never really put my finger on that one.


 
"Oh noes, a complex issue! I'd better take the easy way out and pretend that everyone else is stupid! That way I can go back to watching porn!"
Something like that.


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## Leafblower29 (Jun 4, 2011)

I've considered suicide before. I don't think I will because I don't think things will turn out bad.


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## Ikrit (Jun 4, 2011)

why?

why should i continue to be a successful person when i'm just gonna loose it all in the end?


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## Trance (Jun 4, 2011)

I thought about it once, but I decided I didn't want to hurt the people who love me.  :c

And I realized that things always get better in the end.  At least that's how it works for me.  Just when I think I've fucked something up beyond repair, I find a way to fix it...


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## Radiohead (Jun 4, 2011)

Trance said:


> I thought about it once, but I decided I didn't want to hurt the people who love me.  :c


 
Solution: ask them to come with you.


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## Namba (Jun 4, 2011)

Trance said:


> I thought about it once, but I decided I didn't want to hurt the people who love me.  :c
> 
> And I realized that things always get better in the end.  At least that's how it works for me.  Just when I think I've fucked something up beyond repair, I find a way to fix it...


 
I second this


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## Trance (Jun 4, 2011)

Radiohead said:


> Solution: ask them to come with you.


 
That would solve the "hurting people who _love_ me" issue...  

make everyone hate you first?    :V


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## NobleThorne (Jun 5, 2011)

So alone right now!
Going crazy, gonna end it!
*puts magnet up to head*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy6XoNAHEjo


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## Radiohead (Jun 5, 2011)

Here's some more thoughts I suppose. Nothing but my own. don't take them as fact. 

*Possibly triggering, not like this whole thread isn't but whatever.*

I've considered suicide and attempted it once when I was 16, after my brother passed away. I tried to hang myself but the wire I was using broke. It left a nasty bruise for a while and reinforced my "not talking" thing. 
It's a constant struggle for me. Always lurching around in the back of my head. I joke around about the shit that happened to me a lot. But it sticks like a blue grenade. 

For now, I'm just biding time. Do I want to die on a hospital bed? Hell fucking no. It's not the worst option. Not the best, either. But, to me, it's still an option. If someone hates me for it, so be it. Only two things matter to me. Ji and not being in pain. Everyone, including my parents, are aware of my fear of becoming too weak and sick to be considered myself anymore. That doesn't just hurt me, that hurts everyone who sees me. And my parents decided to get me a medical bracelet that says "Do not resuscitate". It was the most bittersweet and understanding gift I've gotten.

So if someone on the internet thinks I'm a coward, a terrible person, a weakling - then fine. Your opinion changes nothing about my life situation. I try not to rant about my problems because, well, it's the internet. The same response everywhere. Someone who simply cannot - and will not - comprehend the gravity of my, or anyone else's situation. 
You can think whatever you like. It will not change my stance. It seems to only have the opposing effect of making me even more misanthropic and depressed, if I think about it too much. But I don't. In the end, I just smirk at the people who think they've seen the world from the comfort of their computer desk. 

If there are any questions, please direct them via PM.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 5, 2011)

Clayton said:


> I can't picture you ever being severely depressed. You always sound so upbeat and in a good mood.


 
I had a hard ass life growing up and it didn't ever get better until I clawed my way up and out of that dark hole. I was pretty much emotionally dead and the 3 relationships I had- An abusive ex who used me for sex, and two one night stands that left me feeling used even more- well they didn't help. It took me meeting my husband to turn my perspective around. Honestly if I hadn't met him that one fated night I had planed to off my self the next month when I could buy bullets legally. I thought "Well if I was born on this day I may as well die on it". I am just glad that part of my life is over.


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## Glitch (Jun 5, 2011)

Heckler & Koch said:


> ITT: People don't understand depression and suicide.


 
THANK YOU

As someone who has diagnosed clinical depression and much more than that, I have attempted suicide with the full intention of escaping life and myself.

But you know what?  Even I figured out it wasn't worth it.
After spending days in the hospital I realized that life is worth living.


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## VoidBat (Jun 5, 2011)

The problem with suicidal individuals (on the interwebs) is to spot who's the Joker and who's the King of Aces.
One do it for attention or "the lulz", the other one for completely different reasons. If you've come across the Joker a few times you're bound to be skeptical, no matter what happens.


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## Lobar (Jun 5, 2011)

Smugmeister said:


> The problem with suicidal individuals (on the interwebs) is to spot who's the Joker and who's the *King of Aces*.
> One do it for attention or "the lulz", the other one for completely different reasons. If you've come across the Joker a few times you're bound to be skeptical, no matter what happens.


 
:?


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## Larry (Jun 5, 2011)

I would never commit suicide, because I know that I have so much to live for, and that I would pussy out.

But if ever the time comes (NEVER), I wouldn't mind dying to this.
[yt]BWV4N-ZcDJg[/yt]


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## Enwon (Jun 5, 2011)

I bought a book about suicide.  So far, I've read a few chapters, and it's an interesting read.  The book is called Night Falls Fast and it's by Kay Redfield Jamison.

In that book, I found some startling statistics.  Since the 1950s, suicide rates among young people have been rising.

What would cause suicide rates to rise over time?


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 5, 2011)

Enwon said:


> I bought a book about suicide.  So far, I've read a few chapters, and it's an interesting read.  The book is called Night Falls Fast and it's by Kay Redfield Jamison.
> 
> In that book, I found some startling statistics.  Since the 1950s, suicide rates among young people have been rising.
> 
> What would cause suicide rates to rise over time?


 
Well I read somewhere that drugs cannot be filtered out by the water system and people flush their meds down. It could be that.


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## Enwon (Jun 5, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> Well I read somewhere that drugs cannot be filtered out by the water system and people flush their meds down. It could be that.


That sounds a little bit strange.  I guess it's possible for it to be a contributing factor, but I wouldn't think that it'd be a big thing.

I'm honestly wondering if our culture is somehow changing in ways that lead to higher instances of mental illness and depression.  I'm wondering if the answer can be found in changing attitudes between generations, changes in media and technology, or other factors.

Except, your theory does hold some weight, because this is happening worldwide.


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## Grey Wolverine (Jun 5, 2011)

dinosaurdammit said:


> I had a hard ass life growing up and it didn't ever get better until I clawed my way up and out of that dark hole. I was pretty much emotionally dead and the 3 relationships I had- An abusive ex who used me for sex, and two one night stands that left me feeling used even more- well they didn't help. It took me meeting my husband to turn my perspective around. Honestly if I hadn't met him that one fated night I had planed to off my self the next month when I could buy bullets legally. I thought "Well if I was born on this day I may as well die on it". I am just glad that part of my life is over.


 
I know I'm just stating the obvious here, but that really sucks. I'm happy that you didn't go through with it, its good you found something to live for.


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## Randy-Darkshade (Jun 6, 2011)

Glitch said:


> THANK YOU
> 
> As someone who has diagnosed clinical depression and much more than that, I have attempted suicide with the full intention of escaping life and myself.
> 
> ...



I have had the same thoughts but never attempted it. I had sever depression about five years ago and many times I picked up knife and each time I bottled it. Now, I have depression again but no where near as bad as last time. I made a vow I'd never go back down that route again and so far have kept to it.


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## dinosaurdammit (Jun 6, 2011)

Ima just leave this here
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/99832-Support-Group-Emotional-support-Advice?highlight=


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## Nothing (Jun 7, 2011)

it's weird i think, when people use their own rebound from depression to condemn people who support suicide and those who have actually done it.  no matter how depressed you think you are/were, you never have and never will know how depressed anyone else is


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