# What Death Is Like



## Derricklesters2009 (Sep 24, 2009)

A few days ago, I was asked about what it was like to experience near death. I thought the best thing to do was to take a few days and answer that question in a new thread considering the gravity of the subject.
When I was twelve, I stole cigarettes from my friendâ€™s mom. He and I smoked them together and we thought we were the shit for doing it. For two weeks, we smoked four or five cigarettes a day.

One day, I decided to quit. I really just said, â€œOkay, this is stupid.â€ and I never looked back.

Unfortunately, the damage had already been done. Two days later, I came down with the flu. Along with my sisters, we became very ill. Though, as time went on, they got better and I never did. A full two weeks passed and I began getting worse. My mother assumed that I just had the flu really bad and everything was fine. I complained to her about the inability to breathe, and she claimed that I was trying to get attention. Another week passed and she finally caved and said, â€œFine. If you want to go to the doctor then we will.â€

We visited my doctor where I immediately began a treatment for my breathing. It only irritated it. We then took X-rays and I went back to the treatment.

Five minutes later, he entered the room, didnâ€™t show us the X-rays, and told us, â€œThis boy needs to get to the ICU immediately!â€ I was put onto a stretcher and carried out into an ambulance and transferred across the street with the siren blaring.

While the doctors, nurses, and my mother ran to the OR, I was being prepped for emergency surgery. I donâ€™t remember anything they were saying as the morphine had kicked in.

One doctor looked right into my eyes and stated, â€œDerrick! Count back from ten!â€

10... 9... 8... 7...

There was a brief moment of blackness then my setting had completely 
changed. The room was different but the same doctors were everywhere. They were furiously working on me, but I wasnâ€™t sure what they were doing.

My eyelids became heavy and I put my head back and fell asleep. A jolt 
suddenly yanked me from sleep. When I saw the defibrillator, I was aware 
that I wasnâ€™t actually sleeping. I began to get tired again and I knew what 
was happening but I just couldnâ€™t help it. I died a second time.

My mother tells me that she can still hear the prolonged beep of the heart 
monitor when she thinks about it.

I was shocked a second time, but this time, I stayed awake. Afterward, I 
stayed in the hospital for two months recovering and three weeks recovering 
at home.

But the most disturbing part was the void after death. The first time, I died 
for sixteen seconds. The second, twenty three seconds. And both times I flat lined, 
I experienced blackness. Just simply void. I expected the pearly gates and I 
got nothing. Literally. There was nothing. No light. No tunnel. Nothing.

What had happened was: My lungs reacted to the cigarettes and my lungâ€™s 
poor immune system as a result of the flu caused an infection in my lungs. My 
lungs then filled with fluid and continued to fill with fluid until the first surgery 
where they put in a chest tube which drained the fluid.

When I recovered, people always ask me what itâ€™s like to die. All of my friends 
are Christian so I basically told them what they wanted to hear because I 
didnâ€™t want to rack their faith.

Anyway, I figured this was an interesting thing to write about that maybe 
one person will find interesting or whatever.

Thank you for your time,
Derrick Lesters


----------



## Ratte (Sep 24, 2009)

Interesting read.

In fact, I read the whole thing.

Wonder what it's like to actually die and never get up.


----------



## Kitsune Dzelda (Sep 24, 2009)

Was.... it frightening?


----------



## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Sep 24, 2009)

Sadly you'll probably never get to make your point heard through this sea of retards.
But at least I can thank you for giving me something to think about.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Christian based response:  You didn't see the Pearly gates because you weren't meant to die yet.  When you die for reals, like God planned, you'll be taken there. 

Non Christian response: That's because Heaven isn't real and the only reason people see lights and faces before they die/when they die for a little is because of their brains firing off memories of loved ones/idealizations of how the afterlife is like.


----------



## Adelio Altomar (Sep 24, 2009)

It's interesting. This is just a thought, though, but if you didn't really see anything, then perhaps it just wasn't your time to die. 

That, and, while you technically dead, your brain was still alive, what with the oxygen still keeping it alive. You may be considered dead but you're not completely dead until the brain completely dies, and even then, you could be 'brought back to life' yet brain-dead, like Schiavo. 

Just a little something I learned in CPR class. =)


----------



## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Christian based response: You didn't see the Pearly gates because you weren't meant to die yet. When you die for reals, like God planned, you'll be taken there.
> 
> Non Christian response: That's because Heaven isn't real and the only reason people see lights and faces before they die/when they die for a little is because of their brains firing off memories of loved ones/idealizations of how the afterlife is like.


Oh, could we please have a serious discussion on death, instead of our daily christian debate? I'd really like that.



Adelio Altomar said:


> It's interesting. This is just a thought, though, but if you didn't really see anything, then perhaps it just wasn't your time to die.
> 
> That, and, while you technically dead, your brain was still alive, what with the oxygen still keeping it alive. You may be considered dead but you're not completely dead until the brain completely dies, and even then, you could be 'brought back to life' yet brain-dead, like Schiavo.
> 
> Just a little something I learned in CPR class. =)


 Yeah, something I was curious about. During clinical death, your heart stops beating, right? That's all it means, in the immediate? But then I don't understand how that would immediately bring the "void feeling" you described. So maybe there's more to this.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Adelio Altomar said:


> It's interesting. This is just a thought, though, but if you didn't really see anything, then perhaps it just wasn't your time to die.
> 
> That, and, while you technically dead, your brain was still alive, what with the oxygen still keeping it alive. You may be considered dead but you're not completely dead until the brain completely dies, and even then, you could be 'brought back to life' yet brain-dead, like Schiavo.
> 
> Just a little something I learned in CPR class. =)


Yeah, true.  Just because your heart stops doesn't mean you're dead, just legally.



FrancisBlack said:


> Oh, could we please have a serious discussion on death, instead of our daily christian debate? I'd really like that.


Who's to say one group's beliefs can't add to a serious discussion on death?


----------



## Kitsune Dzelda (Sep 24, 2009)

Christian Based response: My father died too, and he saw the pearly gates.  he told me.  And God told him he ewasnt ready yet, and put him back.

Dont tell me its shit, he got hit in the head with a giant rock when he was 17.

My Christian based response was, yuo saw a void because...... eheheheheh........ hell isnt all flames like you think it is, its eternal suffering by your own worst fears.  

On that malicious and ominous sounding note, let me be the first to congragulate you on your exploratory transition to the other side!


----------



## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Who's to say one group's beliefs can't add to a serious discussion on death?


 Christians/anti-christians can never be serious. Considering we already have furries on top.

AND DAMN, I SWEAR, I'M DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS >:c


----------



## blackfuredfox (Sep 24, 2009)

ive always wondered that myself, ive often thought about it, though, not waking up. at least not for very long in the battlefield.


----------



## pheonix (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm not too excited about the feeling the jolt from the defibrillator as electricity fucking hurts, but I wouldn't mind a void after life. It's called eternal piece for a reason. I imagine it just like when you fall asleep. You have no recollection of how long you where asleep and everything's black. I'm quite curious as to what really happens seeing as a lot of people die and get brought back and a lot of them see different things. this just tickled my curiosity more.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Thinking about death and if it is eternal nothingness just gives me a sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach.  I think it's because I can't grasp the idea of nothingness.


----------



## ElizabethAlexandraMary (Sep 24, 2009)

pheonix said:


> I'm not too excited about the feeling the jolt from the defibrillator as electricity fucking hurts, but I wouldn't mind a void after life. It's called eternal piece for a reason. I imagine it just like when you fall asleep. You have no recollection of how long you where asleep and everything's black. I'm quite curious as to what really happens seeing as a lot of people die and get brought back and a lot of them see different things. this just tickled my curiosity more.


 But wouldn't missing everything from life really suck? I mean, like any other decision, you know in the end you'll get over it and won't care anymore, yet it's really hard to make that choice.


----------



## The Walkin Dude (Sep 24, 2009)

Your brain can live for about two minutes on the stored o2 in your blood after the supply is cut off, and considering you'd been dead for a total of thirty nine seconds, that wasn't nearly enough time for the oxygen-deprived halluncinations to begin yet.


That still sucks though.


----------



## pheonix (Sep 24, 2009)

FrancisBlack said:


> But wouldn't missing everything from life really suck? I mean, like any other decision, you know in the end you'll get over it and won't care anymore, yet it's really hard to make that choice.



No. When you sleep do you think about all the awesome things you could be doing if you where awake? It's one of the things that I think the "afterlife" is but we don't really know 100% what happens till we get there, it could be something we never even thought of. And I wont be taking shortcuts to feed my curiosity if that's what you're saying.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Sep 24, 2009)

pheonix said:


> No. When you sleep do you think about all the awesome things you could be doing if you where awake? It's one of the things that I think the "afterlife" is but we don't really know 100% what happens till we get there, it could be something we never even thought of. And I wont be taking shortcuts to feed my curiosity if that's what you're saying.



well, i think our bodies die, but we have a spirit, that roams afterward. i want to roam with you if that is true.


----------



## Azure (Sep 24, 2009)

Kill yourself and find out. Then ask Jeebus to resurrect your ass so you can be super kewl and post about it on the internet.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> well, i think our bodies die, but we have a spirit, that roams afterward. i want to roam with you if that is true.


The hints become less subtle. 

Phe, would you like to have a seat?


----------



## blackfuredfox (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> The hints become less subtle.
> 
> Phe, would you like to have a seat?



what can i say, i still believe that we do become a roaming state of mind though, not like $cientology though, just there afterward.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Thinking about death and if it is eternal nothingness just gives me a sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach.  I think it's because I can't grasp the idea of nothingness.


I agree.
Especially eternal nothingness.
If it truly was nothingness, I know I wouldn't feel it TO hate it, but my conscious mind just kind of cringes at the idea.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

blackfuredfox said:


> what can i say, i still believe that we do become a roaming state of mind though, not like $cientology though, just there afterward.


I was talking about the with Phe part


----------



## Derricklesters2009 (Sep 24, 2009)

The Walkin Dude said:


> Your brain can live for about two minutes on the stored o2 in your blood after the supply is cut off, and considering you'd been dead for a total of thirty nine seconds, that wasn't nearly enough time for the oxygen-deprived halluncinations to begin yet.
> 
> 
> That still sucks though.


 
That makes perfect sense! I love it!

Kitsune Dzelda, are you trying to tell me that I'm going to hell because I wouldn't appreciate that. Also, I was flatlining because the nurse gave me too much morphine or something like that, so I wasn't feeling much of anything. Basically, no. It wasn't scary.

FrancisBlack, Thanks for keeping this thread on the right track.

Also, dying is like sleeping. That is EXACTLY what it felt like. You really hit the nail on the head with that statement.

Quickly, I have made peace with the fact that god does not exist and it no longer is an issue for me. I think I am a better person because of it.

I now don't do good things to earn my way into heaven. I now spend my sundays doing good deeds BECAUSE THEY ARE THE RIGHT THING TO DO! I believe that christians only do the right thing because it gets them into heaven which is ungodly in itself and is also ironic and hypocritical.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Derricklesters2009 said:


> That makes perfect sense! I love it!
> 
> Kitsune Dzelda, are you trying to tell me that I'm going to hell because I wouldn't appreciate that. Also, I was flatlining because the nurse gave me too much morphine or something like that, so I wasn't feeling much of anything. Basically, no. It wasn't scary.
> 
> ...


Your brain shut down in order to try to stay alive as long as possible, much like sleeping.  It didn't actually die.


----------



## Derricklesters2009 (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Your brain shut down in order to try to stay alive as long as possible, much like sleeping. It didn't actually die.


 
I didn't say that it actually died.


----------



## blackfuredfox (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> I was talking about the with Phe part



i know, there was a comma there. im still believeing that over the clouds thing. i acknowledge what you said.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Derricklesters2009 said:


> I didn't say that it actually died.


But in order for you to experience death, your brain would have to die, since your brain is what experiences things.  Your heart stopping and your brain shutting down doesn't equal death, it equals right before death.


----------



## Darkwing (Sep 24, 2009)

Wow, that's an awfully scary scenario, even scarier when you described the "empty void".

I, myself, am Catholic, although I have had a few theories about what happens after death.

One of my theories: What you believe would happen in the afterlife, would happen. Before this, did you theorize that death was a black void?

Another theory: Oxygen Deprived Hallucinations, you brain wasn't deprived enough from oxygen yet to gain the hallucinations from dying, you were only dead for about thirty seconds. I heard that these hallucinations last a few seconds, but feel like they last for eternity, it's freaky, isn't it?

My third theory: Reincarnation, probably happens after your officially dead, like, after you experience the oxygen deprived hallucinations, which you didn't experience yet.

Fourth theory: Heaven/Hell, maybe that "Black void" you experienced was Hell 0_0 (Not saying you will go to Hell or anything, just theorizing.)

Fifth theory: Black Void, quiet, peaceful black void, who knows, it may not be so bad.

Sixth theory: Rising back up as a spirit, again, I believe it happens after your officially deprived from the oxygen in the brain.


----------



## pheonix (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> The hints become less subtle.
> 
> Phe, would you like to have a seat?



Oh shush you.


----------



## Torrijos-sama (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Christian based response: You didn't see the Pearly gates because you weren't meant to die yet. When you die for reals, like God planned, you'll be taken there.
> 
> Non Christian response: That's because Heaven isn't real and the only reason people see lights and faces before they die/when they die for a little is because of their brains firing off memories of loved ones/idealizations of how the afterlife is like.


 
Actually, it is the massive release of DMT by the brain in its final moments.


----------



## Derricklesters2009 (Sep 24, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> Wow, that's an awfully scary scenario, even scarier when you described the "empty void".
> 
> I, myself, am Catholic, although I have had a few theories about what happens after death.
> 
> ...


 
I was a Southern Baptist! Maybe it was hell. Hell is supposed to be the worst place to be and maybe the worst place is no where. If that's true, then hell was VERY comfortable cause I could sleep through it.

I like your theories. We'll have to get together sometime and talk. You and that other person who was wanting to talk about it.

 But that will have to be another time because I have to go home and sleep!!!

I'll be reading your posts saturday! I have a HOT date Friday! YAY!

Thanks for your time,
Derrick Lesters


----------



## Darkwing (Sep 24, 2009)

Derricklesters2009 said:


> I was a Southern Baptist! Maybe it was hell. Hell is supposed to be the worst place to be and maybe the worst place is no where. If that's true, then hell was VERY comfortable cause I could sleep through it.



Really? Hmmm.... I always thought about the "Black Void" theory about death, and I always wondered weather or not it was comfortable, if you could sleep through this "Hell" then Satan should have taken a bit more effort to make it Hell xD



Derricklesters2009 said:


> I like your theories. We'll have to get together sometime and talk. You and that other person who was wanting to talk about it.



Okay, I'll send you a PM, I got a whole bunch of other theories, that I would be thrilled to share 

Y'know what, never mind, I will post 'em here, I want to share them with everyone else, too, it's more fun when your sharing knowledge with greater numbers, after all ^^


----------



## Attaman (Sep 24, 2009)

If what you say you saw (void / nothingness) is true, then I can honestly say I don't fear death.  Void is void:  You don't realize it.  You just cease to exist.  A much better fate than an eternity that would eventually lead to insanity / eternal suffering.

EDIT:  And I don't understand why people fear nothingness. "Oh no, I'm going to be in nothing for eternity!"  _You won't realize this._  You won't realize anything.  Big whoop it ends there, your material self is already over after death (at least in most interpretations), and all dreams end eventually.


----------



## Darkwing (Sep 24, 2009)

Another theory I came up with: Maybe when you die, you experience a short period of Blackness, and then get Reincarnated/go to Heaven/Hell, etc.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Attaman said:


> EDIT:  And I don't understand why people fear nothingness. "Oh no, I'm going to be in nothing for eternity!"  _You won't realize this._  You won't realize anything.  Big whoop it ends there, your material self is already over after death (at least in most interpretations), and all dreams end eventually.


Because we can't grasp the concept of nothing.


----------



## Darkwing (Sep 24, 2009)

Ooo, another interesting theory:

Maybe as you die your dying brain creates an afterlife for you in accordance with your beliefs or disbeliefs and this lasts an eternity for you ( but a few seconds in real time). This is probably what Jesus knew and why he said you had to believe. I reckon the muslim terrorists probably got their virgins too.

Some wierd scientific theory to back it up a bit:

"As you die provided death isn't spontaneous your brain floods with chemicals and an increased firing of neurons so that your perception of time slows down and approaches (what I believe is a stopping point)."


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 24, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> Ooo, another interesting theory:
> 
> Maybe as you die your dying brain creates an afterlife for you in accordance with your beliefs or disbeliefs and this lasts an eternity for you ( but a few seconds in real time). This is probably what Jesus knew and why he said you had to believe. I reckon the muslim terrorists probably got their virgins too.
> 
> ...


Time IS relative.  It could happen.  No way to prove any of this though.


----------



## Dass (Sep 24, 2009)

Well, there's only one way to find out.

Which I don't plan on doing for a long time on the chance that I'm wrong and it's just an eternal void.
Thinking about that outcome makes me slightly ill. Hell's better than that.


----------



## Darkwing (Sep 24, 2009)

Dass said:


> Thinking about that outcome makes me slightly ill. *Hell's better than that.*



I'd have to disagree to that, I'd prefer a Black Void to Hell any day. Like some other person here said, you wouldn't be aware of it at all.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm surprised no one brought up the subject of "ghosts" where poltergeisting and EVPs happen like you see in Ghost Hunters on SciFi SyFy.


----------



## Dass (Sep 24, 2009)

Darkwing said:


> I'd have to disagree to that, I'd prefer a Black Void to Hell any day. Like some other person here said, you wouldn't be aware of it at all.



Hmm... Point taken

(Satan has now hit undo on his design of my hell)


----------



## ShadowEon (Sep 24, 2009)

I am christian and that does scare me.=< The only thing I could guess is that you only "died" a few seconds and that's why nothing was there. If you still remember it you can't be fully gone when you die...
Maybe once everything is fully...dead you go somewere? I don't know but that is rather scary.;_; I guess we can all just hope for the best,and I wish you well with your health.


----------



## Ragnarok-Cookies (Sep 24, 2009)

If you die, everybody loses.

Well when it actually happens, at least your prepared next time around.


----------



## MetroidBob (Sep 24, 2009)

Darkwing, you've got some interesting theories. Quite fun to consider.

Myself, I've believed for years now that death is that void. That there's just nothing. But I'm a godless heathen, so...

The afterlife and its possibilities fascinate me, I'm in no hurry to get there.


----------



## Takun (Sep 24, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Time IS relative.  It could happen.  No way to prove any of this though.



You didn't exist before you were born.  You just came into a world with a history that you had to learn about.


----------



## Vaelarsa (Sep 24, 2009)

You know how people see supposedly ghosts and shit?
You know how, when you dream, a lot of dreams are related to things in your past and whatnot?

I don't BELIEVE this, but just an idea...
What if each of your "lifetimes" occurs in a different parallel dimension, with different things and outcomes, but similar environments and people,
and dreams are memories of existing in another dimension?

I do kind of believe (not fully, though. My mind's too skeptical to fully believe in anything that can't be proven) in reincarnation of some form.


----------



## YokoWolf (Sep 25, 2009)

Wow..I finally came across an interesting topic for once. Anyway, I like to think upon the idea of a void as being the more prominent to me, but that comes from my own experiences. Very nice theories and ideas though. Would make for a great debate. My question though is how does a state of comatose or unconsciousness compare to the function of the brain as opposed to shutting down? If that makes any sense at all.


----------



## Skullmiser (Sep 25, 2009)

There was an episode of Star Trek Voyager, "Mortal Coil," in which Neelix died and was also brought back to life, but HE was dead for over 18 hours. He said the same thing you did, that there was "Nothing." He used to believe in the Great Tree(an afterlife), but not experiencing it when he was dead depressed him because he could not be reunited with his dead sister, Alixia. He almost killed himself.


----------



## Jashwa (Sep 25, 2009)

Takumi_L said:


> You didn't exist before you were born.  You just came into a world with a history that you had to learn about.


The concept of time is not relative, but the experience of that time is.  Sort of like the proposed theory about black holes bending time itself.  When you approach the event horizon, it is thought that time seems to slow down for you as seen by everyone else, but you wouldn't notice a change.  

Of course, that's a completely different scenario and is not applicable to death in any way/shape/form, but I just felt like saying it .


----------



## net-cat (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm sorry. I read this story and the only thing I can think is "What in the fucking hell is wrong with your mother?"

"Mom, I can't breath."
"That's nice dear, stop being an attention whore."

As for the death question... I wouldn't mind ceasing to exist. I really don't relish the idea of eternal life. It'd get boring. Granted, I'd love to have a few more centuries than a normal lifetime. But I'll take my short life over eternal life anyway.


----------



## south syde dobe (Sep 25, 2009)

net-cat said:


> I'm sorry. I read this story and the only thing I can think is "What in the fucking hell is wrong with your mother?"
> 
> "Mom, I can't breath."
> "That's nice dear, stop being an attention whore."
> ...


 
Same here especially if you see everyone else die that you know and love


----------



## Nocturne (Sep 25, 2009)

I grew up a christian, believing that there would be an afterlife and that it would be better than anything I could imagine on earth.

I'm more agnostic these days, but the thought of there being nothing after death scares the shit out of me.  The idea I heaven I was taught doesn't sound completely appealing either though.  It's supposed to be kind of a bliss filled existence of worshiping God.  I like my friends, I like my girlfriend, and godammit I like some earthly things.  Why do we have to throw everything out the window after death.

Either way it sucks.


----------



## Attaman (Sep 25, 2009)

net-cat said:


> As for the death question... I wouldn't mind ceasing to exist. I really don't relish the idea of eternal life. It'd get boring. Granted, I'd love to have a few more centuries than a normal lifetime. But I'll take my short life over eternal life anyway.


Just about.  Find it funny how some people fear the void because they can't comprehend it, but then at the same time love ideas that involve eternal sentience.  

Imagine for a second that you keep seeing stuff.  For centuries.  For millenia.  For millions of years.  You have watched stars be born and planets die.  You have watched the universe collapse in on itself - twice.  You have seen the big bang.

Now imagine being able to do that a hundred thousand times.  That's not even the _tip_ of eternity.  I may not be capable of imagining nothingness in a reasonable amount, but I don't want to even try fathoming just how long eternity would feel.

Also everyone:  Occam's Razor.  Ever heard of it?


----------



## Snack (Sep 25, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Also everyone:  Occam's Razor.  Ever heard of it?




This?


----------



## Dahguns (Sep 25, 2009)

Derricklesters2009 said:


> I expected the pearly gates and I
> got nothing. Literally. There was nothing. No light. No tunnel. Nothing.


You didnt die though, your soul wouldn't be swiped if the reaper knew you weren't going to die.  So you layed there waiting for your body to come to.


----------



## SailorYue (Sep 25, 2009)

well since you were twelve, you probaly werent old enough to do any great good or great evil to go either way, so perhaps it was purgatory  

either that or you werent DEAD dead. your soul was still bound to your body and therefore was able to be recucutated back to life.

dontforget there are 2 difefrent death experience books: Dante's inferno and the one where the guy spent a few minutes in heaven.


----------



## Kitsune Dzelda (Sep 25, 2009)

Dude, reading this thread, Im not sure if you really were dead or not, but seriously, some folks ARE going to hell.

To put the subject more on track though, the worst that could ever happen to me if I died is if I didnt go stright to heaven but had to roam about a bit before I went.  Oh dear, I wouldnt be a good spirit at all...... you wouldnt imagine what kind of things Id do to folks. I may be a Christian, but Ill lert you know doing good deeds arent a part of the job.  Well, the good deeds I do go generally unappreciated, since they come int he form of pain and fire.  Seriously, people hate me for tough love >


----------



## MetroidBob (Sep 25, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Just about.  Find it funny how some people fear the void because they can't comprehend it, but then at the same time love ideas that involve eternal sentience.
> 
> Imagine for a second that you keep seeing stuff.  For centuries.  For millenia.  For millions of years.  You have watched stars be born and planets die.  You have watched the universe collapse in on itself - twice.  You have seen the big bang.
> 
> ...



Man, that would be boring. Unless I got superpowers, maybe.

I've heard the _name_ Occam's Razor, but damned if I can remember what it is.

It is this.


----------



## Mojotaian (Sep 25, 2009)

Hmm... Interesting topic and interesting thread...

I wouldn't mind the void... I love sleep anyway... It shouldn't be so hard to grasp nothingness, almost everyone goes through a period of nothing every day (except for sleepless party goers and such).

But, if in fact god is real and so is hell... and if I go to hell I'm going to promise myself ONE THING! I will KILL Satan! And later, god! AND DESTROY THE ENTIIIIIIIIRE WOOOOOOOOOOOOORLLLLLLLLLLLLD! MUAHAHAHAHA!!! And various other evil laughs...


----------



## twelvestring (Sep 25, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Also everyone:  Occam's Razor.  Ever heard of it?


Yes, that's why I lean more towards the idea of a prime mover of sorts. But this thread really is to interesting to get into all of that.
   For the op: I am not into organized religion much at all, and have nothing against a person changing faiths, in fact I encourage people to keep an open mind for many options. But I must say that I hope there are more factors than this experience that caused you to lose your faith. For legally dead is not dead at all it's just a term doctors use that means they are under no legal obligation to attempt resuscitation. I'd hate to think you lost your faith only because doctors want to cover their asses legally.
   Regarding the void: After you passed out again after the jolt, did you just wake up in bed or did you have an actual conscious self awareness in a black void? I had a dream that I died once and it was an actual awareness in a black void. I could see, hear and smell nothing but I felt like I was in  an uncontrollable tumbling for I had no physical equilibrium. If this sounds familiar another theory could be that you were dreaming.
   Another theory on after life: I think it's kind of a hindu belief that god is nothing more than awareness itself, and everything that we are is nothing more than the imagination of said awareness trying to occupy it's eternity. Hence, "I am" is the perfect name for god. Just throwing another one out there.


----------



## lilEmber (Sep 25, 2009)

At first it goes "black", but it's not actually black and instead it's actually every memory, thought, and experience coming to realization and your thoughts at the same time. Random neurons are firing and this is the "black" or the "life flashing before your eyes" experience you hear so much about. The tunnel doesn't actually exist, but it's common -before- death while your vision is loosing focus and peripheral. During this black you basically see, hear, smell, feel, and taste everything at the same time, it's hard to explain but basically your memories are let loose without control.

After that it fades to black. There is no heaven, or hell. Just nothingness, you no longer exist. A conscious, intellectual, free will being's worst nightmare is infinite time being able to think. You will eventually have every thought, make every invention and conclusion, have every conversation, and do -everything- that can ever be done at some point. From that point onward it's just a continuous repeat. Basically unless you can wipe your memory and start over it's the worst torture imaginable.

Then there's always the conclusion that because matter can't be destroyed you'll always have some thought. When you die what does make up your thinking process isn't removed, but instead it's simply no longer in your physical body and simply floats around every now and then enough of it is in one place to give you breaths of information. Sort of like a limbo, think Dr. Manhattan only without being able to reform your physical form. Could explain "ghosts" and odd occurrences.

Then there's the whole "you live happily ever after if you were good according to some intellectual, free-will being's ideology. But you burn for eternity if you were bad according to him/her/it as well. This one is just silly.


----------



## twelvestring (Sep 25, 2009)

Mojotaian said:


> It shouldn't be so hard to grasp nothingness, almost everyone goes through a period of nothing every day


No, either you have no recollection therefor impossible to grasp, or you dream
therefor nothingness becomes somethingness<--my own word.
There are words that we use to define things we can't understand. 
e.g. infinity, oblivion, furry. that last ones a joke people...kind of


----------



## Telnac (Sep 25, 2009)

I read the OP and I'm responding to that first b/c I think it merits a response on that alone.  Then I'll go through the responses & decide if I should post again in response to something else... so please forgive me if I double-post.

I am a Christian, but I wasn't always one.  I was into the occult long before I became a Christian, and I've done & seen enough supernatural things both before becoming a Christian and afterward that I am 100% convinced that the spiritual realm exists.  Even if someone could prove to me that Christianity is a bunch of fairy tales, no one could convince me that there isn't something out there.  I can't prove to you or anyone else that the supernatural realm exists, and I'm not going to insult your intelligence by trying.  Just accept that's what I've come to believe based on my experiences.

From the standpoint of a Christian, your story actually doesn't surprise me.  The dominant view is that one immediately (or soon) enters Heaven or Hell after death, but I've studied the Bible extensively and have found little evidence of that.  Quite the contrary, I've found evidence for a theory called "soul sleep" which states that your soul is tied to your body in such a way that if your body is damaged, your soul is affected... and if your body dies, your soul simply goes to sleep.  But it cannot be destroyed by the death of the body... even if your body is cremated.  It simply remains asleep until your body is resurrected at the end of the time... best known as Judgment Day.

As for the light at the end of the tunnel & near-death experiences that some people have... I interpret that the same way most secular cognitive scientists do: the brain releases powerful endorphins to counter extreme damage & extreme pain.  This is especially true at the time of death.  This is a well-established scientific fact; no credible person disputes this.  These endorphins, in addition to giving one the feeling of peace and well being, deliver pain relief better than any medication science has yet produced... but they can also cause hallucinations.  I believe the "light at the end of the tunnel" isn't supernatural at all.  It's just the brain, trying to make your passing as merciful as biology can allow.

I believe that when you die, you lose consciousness.  Centuries, millennia and possibly even billions of years pass before you are called again to consciousness when your body is resurrected.

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## Ty Vulpine (Sep 25, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Thinking about death and if it is eternal nothingness just gives me a sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach.  I think it's because I can't grasp the idea of nothingness.



That's what sometimes keeps me up at night.

It only seemed like a split second from the beginning of eternity to your first recorded memory, doesn't it? Even it was (most likely) billions of years ago, and when we die, eternal darkness and silence. That scares the shit out of me.


----------



## lilEmber (Sep 25, 2009)

I'd prefer it, even though it's a horrible feeling. I can grasp the idea, but I don't know what it would feel like. I'd still prefer it, either that or the ability to live a long time, but not forever.


----------



## Beastcub (Sep 25, 2009)

i cannot think about death .___.

the idea that my existance will one day just...stop,......freaks me out

i LOVE my life and i have a lot to live for.

my mom talks about dying so freely and how she does not want to live as long as her parents (who whitered away into their very late 90s, my grandpa was like 8 months from is 100th birthday when he died) and if she died right now then so be it and i am like "MOM SHUT UP"

i guess man kind has forever wondered about death, feared it, embraced it and sought ways to escape it....

i would like to think death is like dreaming....your spirit lives on and creates new experiences from what you had in life....never truly interacting with anyone or anything but is still stimulated and still existing....


shit...i am not going to ba able to sleep tonight, my brain is all flustered about mortality again  ;____;


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 25, 2009)

I find comfort in the feeling that when I die, I simply return to the ground that bore me and continue existing in another form. Whether or not my consciousness exists is irrelevant.

Everybody dies and the sooner we get used to it, the better.


----------



## Mojotaian (Sep 25, 2009)

Oh, on another note: I tend to think of it as this, regardless of what we like to think of death as. The fact of the matter is that there is or is not a great big void awaiting us. Regardless of what we think, there is an absolute existance of something, whatever it is and no opinion or belief can change it...

also... I think you missed my point beforehand about nothingness


----------



## Dass (Sep 25, 2009)

Beastcub said:


> my mom talks about dying so freely and how she does not want to live as long as her parents (who whitered away into their very late 90s, my grandpa was like 8 months from is 100th birthday when he died) and if she died right now then so be it and i am like "MOM SHUT UP"



Well, THH22M has a very good point. "No one wants to live to 90 until they're 89 and a half".


----------



## Drake-Lord (Sep 25, 2009)

Telnac said:


> I am a Christian, but I wasn't always one. I was into the occult long before I became a Christian, and I've done & seen enough supernatural things both before becoming a Christian and afterward that I am 100% convinced that the spiritual realm exists. Even if someone could prove to me that Christianity is a bunch of fairy tales, no one could convince me that there isn't something out there. I can't prove to you or anyone else that the supernatural realm exists, and I'm not going to insult your intelligence by trying. Just accept that's what I've come to believe based on my experiences.
> 
> From the standpoint of a Christian, your story actually doesn't surprise me. The dominant view is that one immediately (or soon) enters Heaven or Hell after death, but I've studied the Bible extensively and have found little evidence of that. Quite the contrary, I've found evidence for a theory called "soul sleep" which states that your soul is tied to your body in such a way that if your body is damaged, your soul is affected... and if your body dies, your soul simply goes to sleep. But it cannot be destroyed by the death of the body... even if your body is cremated. It simply remains asleep until your body is resurrected at the end of the time... best known as Judgment Day.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you, Telnac.
Kept me from doing most of that. 

I, myself, am not into organized religion. I feel there is alot wrong with the way that it is now. 

However, I have extensively read the Bible. Jesus himself made statements that death was nothing but deep sleep; totally unaware of anything, not even time, until judgement day. Personally, if I was going to believe any *one persons *opinion about anything, it would be one who had *experianced it first hand*. Jesus died, and was dead for 3 days then came back, so I would value his opinion above all others.

*However,* 
I read the first 3 pages of posts for this and some interesting thoughts were there.
It is up to the individual to take what meaning they can find in life. Wheather it be good or bad, its that persons opinion, and they can do with it as they wish.


----------



## Attaman (Sep 25, 2009)

MetroidBob said:


> Man, that would be boring.


  Basically.  As Newf said, a mind-wipe is the only thing that could make it enjoyable.  But then why take immortality?



> I've heard the _name_ Occam's Razor, but damned if I can remember what it is.
> 
> It is this.


Yes. Felt like bringing it up because people's responses to "I saw darkness" are theories all over the place.  Occam's Razor would dictate the best response to be "There is a void after death."


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 25, 2009)

Drake-Lord said:


> Jesus died, and was dead for 3 days then came back, so I would value his opinion above all others.



Uh, you are aware that Biblical Jesus has little in common with the actual person?


----------



## CaptainCool (Sep 25, 2009)

wow, thats pretty deep :O was a good read, i always wondered what it would feel like^^ im not afraid of death just... curious 



Derricklesters2009 said:


> I now don't do good things to earn my way into heaven. I now spend my sundays doing good deeds BECAUSE THEY ARE THE RIGHT THING TO DO! I believe that christians only do the right thing because it gets them into heaven which is ungodly in itself and is also ironic and hypocritical.



this, totally. thats the way i live and i think its far more enjoyable^^


----------



## Thatch (Sep 25, 2009)

Drake-Lord said:


> Jesus himself made statements that death was nothing but deep sleep; totally unaware of anything, not even time, until judgement day. Personally, if I was going to believe any *one persons *opinion about anything, it would be one who had *experianced it first hand*. Jesus died, and was dead for 3 days then came back, so I would value his opinion above all others.



Dude, you talked with Jesus? That's rad. I'll totally conform now.

Wait... You didn't talk to him, didn't you?


Drake-Lord said:


> However, I have extensively read the Bible.



Crap. And you had my hopes up.


----------



## Drake-Lord (Sep 25, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Dude, you talked with Jesus? That's rad. I'll totally conform now.
> 
> Wait... You didn't talk to him, didn't you?
> 
> Crap. And you had my hopes up.


 
I prayed when I was young, some would call that talking to Jesus. No, he didn't talk back, but in some RL conversations its all one sided as well. 
I personally don't "talk" to him anymore, and haven't in a many years.

Well as stated earlier, life is for the person to decide. Nobody else can make your opinion for you, they may influence it, but ultimatly its still your opinion to do with as you see fit.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2009)

Kitsune Dzelda said:


> Dude, reading this thread, Im not sure if you really were dead or not, but seriously, some folks ARE going to hell.
> 
> To put the subject more on track though, the worst that could ever happen to me if I died is if I didnt go stright to heaven but had to roam about a bit before I went.  Oh dear, I wouldnt be a good spirit at all...... you wouldnt imagine what kind of things Id do to folks. I may be a Christian, but Ill lert you know doing good deeds arent a part of the job.  Well, the good deeds I do go generally unappreciated, since they come int he form of pain and fire.  Seriously, people hate me for tough love >



By Baptist standards, you are going to hell to.
Infact, everyone's going to hell. 

Kegger party anyone?


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2009)

The Feeling of death is at most undescribable...


----------



## Hir (Sep 25, 2009)

Derricklesters2009 said:


> When I recovered, people always ask me what itâ€™s like to die. All of my friends
> are Christian so I basically told them what they wanted to hear because I
> didnâ€™t want to rack their faith.


...WHAT?

Dude, you should tell them exactly what happened. Don't lie to them.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> ...WHAT?
> 
> Dude, you should tell them exactly what happened. Don't lie to them.



Why not? They lie to themselves all the time.


----------



## GraemeLion (Sep 25, 2009)

I was in a near fatal car accident.  I walked away with no injuries.  I say near fatal because it could have gotten really bad about ten times during the accident.

I can agree with Derrick here.  During the accident.. in the thirty seconds when I was heading into the SUV, or under the semi, or in the retaining wall.. I didn't fear death.  I knew it was my time.  I knew I was going to die.  

It wasn't something I feared, it wasn't something I wanted to happen.. it was just something I accepted.

And we're all going to die at sometime.  We're all going to go through it.  So why be afraid?  Really?


----------



## Hir (Sep 25, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Why not? They lie to themselves all the time.


Too true.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> Too true.



They'll figure it out in the end. Let them have their sugar-coated marshmallow lie.


----------



## Hir (Sep 25, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> They'll figure it out in the end. Let them have their sugar-coated marshmallow lie.


Thanks, now I want a sugar-coated marshmallow.

brb finding marshmallow and sugar


----------



## veneer (Sep 25, 2009)

Kitsune Dzelda said:


> some folks ARE going to hell.


Psh, all furries are going to hell... didn't you know? YIFF IN HELL FURFAGS!

Oh wait... guess I'm going to hell. AWESOME!


----------



## Telnac (Sep 25, 2009)

Gotta love the respect for the faith of others that permeates this thread.  </sarcasm>

The only people I've heard that claim Jesus the irl person was very different than Jesus as written about in the Bible are revisionists who like to re-write history to suit their view of how the world should work.  This includes theists and non-theists alike.  No offense to either one, but I'd accept the writings of people who were only 1 or 2 people removed from the eye witnesses or were eye witnesses themselves than someone 2000 years later who wants to fabricate a concept of the so-called "historical Jesus."

[edit]
Damn, now I want a sugar-covered marshmallow too.


----------



## Ozriel (Sep 25, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> Thanks, now I want a sugar-coated marshmallow.
> 
> brb finding marshmallow and sugar





Telnac said:


> [edit]
> Damn, now I want a sugar-covered marshmallow too.




Lucky charms anyone?


----------



## Thatch (Sep 25, 2009)

Drake-Lord said:


> No, he didn't talk back, but in some RL conversations its all one sided as well.



Exactly. And the "it's useless but under certian cicumstances, that happen once in a full moon, other things can be equally useless" completely doesn't convince me. You still got nothing valuable to share with us out of it.



Drake-Lord said:


> Well as stated earlier, life is for the person to decide. Nobody else can make your opinion for you, they may influence it, but ultimatly its still your opinion to do with as you see fit.



It's still belief. I'm not interested in belief, I'm interested in experience.


----------



## veneer (Sep 25, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Lucky charms anyone?


Ew. Those things are so damn nasty.


----------



## Hir (Sep 25, 2009)

Telnac said:


> Damn, now I want a sugar-covered marshmallow too.


I'm back.

Oh sorry, I ate them all.


----------



## net-cat (Sep 25, 2009)

Telnac said:


> Gotta love the respect for the faith of others that permeates this thread.  </sarcasm>
> 
> The only people I've heard that claim Jesus the irl person was very different than Jesus as written about in the Bible are revisionists who like to re-write history to suit their view of how the world should work.  This includes theists and non-theists alike.  No offense to either one, but I'd accept the writings of people who were only 1 or 2 people removed from the eye witnesses or were eye witnesses themselves than someone 2000 years later who wants to fabricate a concept of the so-called "historical Jesus."



Reminds me of a conversation I had with my mother once.

Mom: Well, what about the transfiguration. How do you explain that?
Me: What is that?
Mom: *explains it*
Me: Sounds like the best LSD trip ever.
Mom: They didn't have LSD back then.
Me: But they did have naturally occurring hallucinogens.
... etc.

(We've actually had this conversation multiple times with different "miracles." Result is usually the same. Nobody changes their mind.)


----------



## Bambi (Sep 25, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Thinking about death and if it is eternal nothingness just gives me a sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach. I think it's because I can't grasp the idea of nothingness.


You're not alone there.


----------



## GraemeLion (Sep 25, 2009)

Bambi said:


> You're not alone there.



It's okay.

You've not existed before.  It wasn't that bad.


----------



## net-cat (Sep 25, 2009)

redcard said:


> It's okay.
> 
> You've not existed before.  It wasn't that bad.


Total perspective vortex?


----------



## GraemeLion (Sep 25, 2009)

net-cat said:


> Total perspective vortex?



I was thinking more of before you were born.


----------



## net-cat (Sep 25, 2009)

redcard said:


> I was thinking more of before you were born.


Well, yes. I figured that. But for some reason, it made me think of "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe."


----------



## GraemeLion (Sep 25, 2009)

net-cat said:


> Well, yes. I figured that. But for some reason, it made me think of "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe."



HEE!  Been too long since I read those books.  Should do it again.


----------



## Attaman (Sep 25, 2009)

Telnac said:


> Gotta love the respect for the faith of others that permeates this thread.  </sarcasm>


  Indeed.  I mean, I'm insulted that people are telling me that my "nothingness" is really just a wait for some sort of afterlife I didn't sign up for.  Fucking sperm eyes couldn't read the fine print on the egg...


----------



## Thatch (Sep 25, 2009)

Telnac said:


> The only people I've heard that claim Jesus the irl person was very different than Jesus as written about in the Bible are revisionists who like to re-write history to suit their view of how the world should work.  This includes theists and non-theists alike.  No offense to either one, but I'd accept the writings of people who were only 1 or 2 people removed from the eye witnesses or were eye witnesses themselves than someone 2000 years later who wants to fabricate a concept of the so-called "historical Jesus."



Can you read arameic and greek, and posses the original scriptures the disciples wrote?

If not, then you can't really say what they wrote an what the didn't. A great lot of things got left out, some gets misinterpretted in lousy traslation, some get misinterpretted on purpose, some might have even been outright fabricated. Didn't have to, but judging from human history, it's more than possible.
Not to say that they were writing what they SAW and BELIEVED that had happened happend. And it's not exactly uncommon for even today, with all the education (though it goes for nought on some) to still fall for charlatans. And the disciples were just simple people, not scholars or priests who knew the tricks.


----------



## ChrisPanda (Sep 25, 2009)

hmm I asume that death is nothingness, brain dead, no soul, no purpose, nothing.

I don't mind it so much. Seems peaceful


----------



## Bambi (Sep 25, 2009)

chrispenguin said:


> hmm I asume that death is nothingness, brain dead, no soul, no purpose, nothing.
> 
> I don't mind it so much. Seems peaceful


I do.

I prefer life to death. 


redcard said:


> It's okay.
> 
> You've not existed before. It wasn't that bad.


For me, sure it was.


----------



## ChrisPanda (Sep 25, 2009)

Bambi said:


> I do.
> 
> I prefer life to death.


 
 Life is for living and I feel I love it more thinking I only have one chance.


----------



## Drake-Lord (Sep 25, 2009)

Zeke Shadowfyre said:


> Kegger party anyone?


sounds like fun to me


szopaw said:


> It's still belief. I'm not interested in belief, I'm interested in experience.


 Only one way for you to find out then.


DarkNoctus said:


> Oh sorry, I ate them all.


 I got some.


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 25, 2009)

Telnac said:


> The only people I've heard that claim Jesus the irl person was very different than Jesus as written about in the Bible are revisionists who like to re-write history to suit their view of how the world should work.  This includes theists and non-theists alike.  No offense to either one, but I'd accept the writings of people who were only 1 or 2 people removed from the eye witnesses or were eye witnesses themselves than someone 2000 years later who wants to fabricate a concept of the so-called "historical Jesus."



Talk about lack of critical thinking.

I find it amusing that you challenge the findings and conclusions of experts, without having proof to back up your claim, other than "the Bible says so".


----------



## Kuraggo (Sep 25, 2009)

Attaman said:


> Just about.  Find it funny how some people fear the void because they can't comprehend it, but then at the same time love ideas that involve eternal sentience.
> 
> Imagine for a second that you keep seeing stuff.  For centuries.  For millenia.  For millions of years.  You have watched stars be born and planets die.  You have watched the universe collapse in on itself - twice.  You have seen the big bang.
> 
> ...



And that's the meaning of life right there. 

We got bored of our lives in eternity so we choose to have a mortal life, when we die and return to the eternity and we get our eternal minds again we're going to be like "oh shit not here again i want to reincarnate and forgive everything for another 90 years!"

Lol that would be funny. 

Talking about the nothingness well it wouldn't be so bad, at first i was kinda scared about that, but hey, if i die i won't even know i died because there's just NOTHING. And it's impossible to imagine the lack of concsiousness of course, but it ain't that bad, really.  =P


----------



## Thatch (Sep 25, 2009)

Drake-Lord said:


> Only one way for you to find out then.



Unfortunately. I can still hope otherwise before that, though.


----------



## Drake-Lord (Sep 25, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Unfortunately. I can still hope otherwise before that, though.


 
Well yeah, hope is really all a person has.


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 25, 2009)

pheonix said:


> I'm not too excited about the feeling the jolt from the defibrillator as electricity fucking hurts, but I wouldn't mind a void after life. It's called eternal piece for a reason. I imagine it just like when you fall asleep. You have no recollection of how long you where asleep and everything's black. I'm quite curious as to what really happens seeing as a lot of people die and get brought back and a lot of them see different things. this just tickled my curiosity more.



I have had many electric shocks, they don't hurt that much. I am pretty sure a couple of electric shocks I received, I should not be here, but I am. 


OP: Interesting story, one of teh few long posts I have actually read from start to finish. I have never had a "near death" experience myself. Death how ever does not really bother, hell, I don't _want_ to die, but if it can't be helped, it can't be helped. I'd rather not die painfully if possible.


----------



## Drake-Lord (Sep 25, 2009)

Well put. Randy.


I look at it like this;
Everyones going to die, only difference is how and when.


----------



## MetroidBob (Sep 25, 2009)

I want to die in the zombocalypse, blowing myself and a crowd of zombie to smithereens, then lighting those on fire.

On topic: That's one of the perks of death! Sure, your family and friends are going to be sad- but _you're_ not gonna care! You'll be dead!

And I figure if I'm wrong, and there is this Jesus guy who's all forgiving and whatnot, he'll be like "Hey man, you were just living how you thought you should. That's cool by me. You want some eternal paradise?"

Or all you religious people get your afterlife and I get to feel the embrace of a sweet void of nothingness.


----------



## Largentum_Wolf (Sep 25, 2009)

this is such an interesting topic, intriuging to see the wide range of beliefs/disbeliefs. i believe in multiple realities and dimentions, i feel that in a sense on ocasion i have "spiritualy?" traveled to some of these places, and some of those have been glimpses into future events. so in essense i think that after death ill continue onto a new life in a new world, and when i die there, onto another place. perhaps the void experienced by some is equal to the emptyness of space between planets while traveling between two worlds. but the way i imagine "after death" (with some fondnes) is a final peacefull sleap devoid of cell phones ringing and alarm clocks chiming.


----------



## Lobo Roo (Sep 25, 2009)

Kitsune Dzelda said:


> Christian Based response: My father died too, and he saw the pearly gates.  he told me.  And God told him he ewasnt ready yet, and put him back.
> 
> Dont tell me its shit, he got hit in the head with a giant rock when he was 17.
> 
> ...



HAHAHAHAHA, seriousy? I think someone brained you in the head with a rock as a kid. If all Christians had been hit in the head as children, wouldn't it explain a lot?

-------------------

On the subject at hand - it gives me something to think about. I've never talked to anyone who actually had a life threatening experience like this, and the only people you hear about are the nut jobs who insist Jesus spoke to them *BUT HE LOOKED LIKE AUNT EDNA I KNEW THAT WAS SO I COULD UNDERSTAND DERP DERP DERP*

Frankly, I think nothingness sounds peaceful. Obviously, you wouldn't actually experience it, but hey, could be worse. Personally, I think that you will go into some sort of void or limbo before being reincarnated. A resting period, if you will. If you think about it, even if your specific conciousness doensn't move on ("I was Napoleon!") your matter is recycled into the earth. Good enough for me.


----------



## Wreth (Sep 25, 2009)

You never know, waking up after 'dying' could cause you forget everything that happened when you 'died'. Maybe there were pearly gates, you just forgot when you gained conciousness. Of course it's more likely tha you just experienced how it really is. Nothing.


----------



## Holsety (Sep 25, 2009)

Dying is like not living.

How did we not already know this


----------



## Lobo Roo (Sep 25, 2009)

Holsety said:


> Dying is like not living.



LIES, ALL LIES!

Really, all that any vision of an afterlife is, no matter what religion is just people wanted to continue their life after their life is over. Even me - like I said, I like to think reincarnation exists.

But sensibly, death=worm food and that't about it. Unless you want to be dropped to the bottom of the sea, like me. Then it's fish food.


----------



## Telnac (Sep 26, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Can you read arameic and greek, and posses the original scriptures the disciples wrote?
> 
> If not, then you can't really say what they wrote an what the didn't. A great lot of things got left out, some gets misinterpretted in lousy traslation, some get misinterpretted on purpose, some might have even been outright fabricated. Didn't have to, but judging from human history, it's more than possible.



I've read the Bible cover to cover multiple times in the NIV translation (no, not the best one by any means) and once in the KJV (it's not so bad once you get used to the writing style.)  I've read the NT in the NAS translation and portions of the NT and Ecclesiastes (my favorite book) in a bunch of other translations.  No translation is perfect and some are downright awful (the Amplified Bible makes me cringe it's so bad), but by reading a text in multiple translations, you get as good an understanding of what the original language means as is possible w/o going back & learning the language itself.

I would love to do that, btw... if I had far more time.  But I don't. I'm not a seminary student or a preacher or anything like that.  I'm a programmer and as such I can't just drop everything & study the New Testament in Greek, after first learning the language.

But you don't need to be a hard-core scholar to understand the writings.  In truth, the message (of not the exact words) of even the worst translation agrees with other translations almost all of the time.  Yeah, there are thorny verses like 1 Thessalonians 5:22, but those are few & far between.



szopaw said:


> Not to say that they were writing what they SAW and BELIEVED that had happened happend. And it's not exactly uncommon for even today, with all the education (though it goes for nought on some) to still fall for charlatans. And the disciples were just simple people, not scholars or priests who knew the tricks.



Jesus would have to be a pretty crappy charlatan to end up on a cross.  It's hard to fake your death when you can't breathe and someone stabs you in the vital organs with a spear.  Even if I were the hardest nose skeptic around and I saw that, then Jesus walking around alive later on... I'd become a believer in an instant.


----------



## Kenzi (Sep 26, 2009)

Deep. I've always wondered how it would be. Temporary death that is.


----------



## Bloodshot_Eyes (Sep 26, 2009)

Jashwa said:


> Thinking about death and if it is eternal nothingness just gives me a sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach.  I think it's because I can't grasp the idea of nothingness.



^this... Goddamn I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight... O.O


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 26, 2009)

Telnac said:


> I've read the Bible cover to cover multiple times in the NIV translation (no, not the best one by any means) and once in the KJV (it's not so bad once you get used to the writing style.)  I've read the NT in the NAS translation and portions of the NT and Ecclesiastes (my favorite book) in a bunch of other translations.  No translation is perfect and some are downright awful (the Amplified Bible makes me cringe it's so bad), but by reading a text in multiple translations, you get as good an understanding of what the original language means as is possible w/o going back & learning the language itself.



But there are people who learn the language and work with the original texts, but you label them revisionists and completely ignore their points, even though they are made in accordance with scientific methods and scutiny. Why?

I would love to do that, btw... if I had far more time.  But I don't. I'm not a seminary student or a preacher or anything like that.  I'm a programmer and as such I can't just drop everything & study the New Testament in Greek, after first learning the language.



> But you don't need to be a hard-core scholar to understand the writings.  In truth, the message (of not the exact words) of even the worst translation agrees with other translations almost all of the time.  Yeah, there are thorny verses like 1 Thessalonians 5:22, but those are few & far between.



It kind of happens if you're translating the same text. I can read several different English-to-Polish translations of the Dune, but I will still understand the plot and message of Herbert's magnum opus.



> Jesus would have to be a pretty crappy charlatan to end up on a cross.  It's hard to fake your death when you can't breathe and someone stabs you in the vital organs with a spear.  Even if I were the hardest nose skeptic around and I saw that, then Jesus walking around alive later on... I'd become a believer in an instant.



What proof do you have that he actually did so?


----------



## Telnac (Sep 26, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> But there are people who learn the language and work with the original texts, but you label them revisionists and completely ignore their points, even though they are made in accordance with scientific methods and scutiny. Why?



There are also plenty of people who work with the original language and work with the original texts who believe what the texts say.

Making shit up isn't a scientific method.  They start with the assumption that the Gospels are a bunch of fairy tales.  Granted, that's fair... Occam's Razor & all.  But after ripping out all of the supernatural events in the Gospels, they go in and try to fill in the blanks to create a picture of the "historical Jesus" that has no evidence whatsoever in support of it.  How do they fill in the blanks?

They make shit up.

That wouldn't bother me if they presented it as historical fiction, but I rarely see it presented it that way.



Mikael Grizzly said:


> What proof do you have that he actually did so?


Are you referring to His being on the cross, or being resurrected from the dead?  If it's the former, the writings about Jesus (both secular and non-secular) from the 1st & 2nd century very often include a mention of His crucifixion.  The accounts of the crucifixion are consistent with modern medical knowledge.  That's far more evidence to support His crucifixion than there is to oppose it.  Even most secular theologians believe he was crucified.

His resurrection from the dead & that many miracles He performed are a matter of faith.  I believe in them, but there is no way to prove to you or anyone else that they happened.


----------



## RoqsWolf (Sep 26, 2009)

Really interesting topic and got to say it's probably the most interesting topice I've read on this forum ^.^

Well I feel sorry for all the pain and fear ya had to go through, Glad you decided to post the story and that your still around :3

Well I imagine death as just a prolonged sleep that you can't resist going through.  Alot of times I forget that I fell asleep and I don't remember were I was when I fell asleep. I do wonder how someone that dies from pain must feel though. Do they just collapse and fall and die?


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 26, 2009)

Telnac said:


> There are also plenty of people who work with the original language and work with the original texts who believe what the texts say.



Are they Christians, by any chance?



> Making shit up isn't a scientific method.  They start with the assumption that the Gospels are a bunch of fairy tales.  Granted, that's fair... Occam's Razor & all.  But after ripping out all of the supernatural events in the Gospels, they go in and try to fill in the blanks to create a picture of the "historical Jesus" that has no evidence whatsoever in support of it.  How do they fill in the blanks?



Roman historical records, Jewish records, archaeological evidence, analysis of the text itself and variations in writing styles, all kinds of scientific methods that are usually used.



> They make shit up.
> 
> That wouldn't bother me if they presented it as historical fiction, but I rarely see it presented it that way.



Then prove them wrong. I mean, there must be some reliable factual basis for everything the Bible's authors claim have happened?



> Are you referring to His being on the cross, or being resurrected from the dead?  If it's the former, the writings about Jesus (both secular and non-secular) from the 1st & 2nd century very often include a mention of His crucifixion.  The accounts of the crucifixion are consistent with modern medical knowledge.  That's far more evidence to support His crucifixion than there is to oppose it.  Even most secular theologians believe he was crucified.



Crucifixion was a common method of execution in Ancient Rome, so that the descriptions are accurate is not an achievement of any sort, as all the authors had to do was look at the city's execution spot and take a look at the guys placed there. 

That's actually discounting the fact that the Bible's description of the crucifixion are generic and brief, enough to be legit, just because their sense is broad enough.

I'm not arguing that it didn't happen at all, available evidence does indicate that a Jewish teacher was crucified in Palestine in First Century of our era, but there is little evidence to support other claims made by the Bible's authors. 

Furthermore, there is no proof that the authors of the Bible didn't have an agenda, especially in a time when religion can get you riches and power.



> His resurrection from the dead & that many miracles He performed are a matter of faith.  I believe in them, but there is no way to prove to you or anyone else that they happened.



Good for you. I choose not to believe a 2000 year old fantasy book.


----------



## Kit H. Ruppell (Sep 26, 2009)

We can't imagine what death is like. Our whole experience of life consists of sensory input. It's all we've ever known. In death, all sensory input subsides. Want a better explanation? Try to think of nothing. Can't do it? I rest my case.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

My movie recommendation to Christians is Zeitgeist the Movie.
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Actually watch it. Don't cop out.

URL for the movie: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197#


----------



## Tewin Follow (Sep 26, 2009)

Kit H. Ruppell said:


> We can't imagine what death is like. Our whole experience of life consists of sensory input. It's all we've ever known. In death, all sensory input subsides. Want a better explanation? Try to think of nothing. Can't do it? I rest my case.


 
And in come the religious types.
Rathen than the impossible concept of "nothing" they offer a "something" that (convieniently) cannot be disproven.

People eat it up, because any answer is way more reassuring that no answer...


----------



## MichaelFoster (Sep 26, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> And in come the religious types.
> Rathen than the impossible concept of "nothing" they offer a "something" that (convieniently) cannot be disproven.
> 
> People eat it up, because any answer is way more reassuring that no answer...


 
You said it bro.


----------



## Bacu (Sep 26, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Furthermore, there is no proof that the authors of the Bible didn't have an agenda, especially in a time when religion can get you riches and power.book.



Because early Christians weren't persecuted or anything, right?


----------



## Tewin Follow (Sep 26, 2009)

MichaelFoster said:


> You said it bro.


 
I'ma gurl, bro.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 26, 2009)

Telnac said:


> But you don't need to be a hard-core scholar to understand the writings.  In truth, the message (of not the exact words) of even the worst translation agrees with other translations almost all of the time.  Yeah, there are thorny verses like 1 Thessalonians 5:22, but those are few & far between.



Oh, the meaning of the bible is quite clear, at least to non-zealots. "Love, peace, hippy world". True, that's quite separate from the quality of transation. I'm rather talking about the text itself, depiction of Jesus and such.
Plus I don't even mean the modern times. Remember, they had 2000 years for that.



Telnac said:


> Jesus would have to be a pretty crappy charlatan to end up on a cross.  It's hard to fake your death when you can't breathe and someone stabs you in the vital organs with a spear.  Even if I were the hardest nose skeptic around and I saw that, then Jesus walking around alive later on... I'd become a believer in an instant.



They can be multible explanations. Like doubles. 
I don't want to get into a dispute wheter the bible tells the truth or not, I simply lack the knowledge on that. But there is the possibility, not even a small one, that even if the scirptures are truly the written testament of what the disciples saw, it doesn't have to give the truth behind it, simply what they interpreted as the truth. 
Hell, it might have been a thought up story, though as I heard there were hundreds similar "messiahs" threading those ground at the time, so that's stretching it. But overcoloring it is not to be overlooked.

Just remember, what you're reading is not the direct source. It's a reprint of a reprint of a reprint. It's as prone to distorment and outright lies as the spoken word.


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 26, 2009)

Bacu said:


> Because early Christians weren't persecuted or anything, right?



Has it occured to you that maybe they were persecuted precisely because they were vying for power by upsetting the social foundations of the ancient world?



Shadow said:


> My movie recommendation to Christians is Zeitgeist the Movie.
> http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
> 
> Actually watch it. Don't cop out.
> ...



Zeitgeist is a manipulative piece of shit propaganda, not a documentary.



szopaw said:


> Just remember, what you're reading is not the direct source. It's a reprint of a reprint of a reprint. It's as prone to distorment and outright lies as the spoken word.



Not to mention that the Bible as it is today is composed of carefully chosen source materials that were reinforcing the docrine of the early Christian church, with many,many other accounts being discarded as heretical and non canon.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Zeitgeist is a manipulative piece of shit propaganda, not a documentary.



Not a fan of logic?

Even the truth about the sun being at its lowest for three days in December, rising on the third which, if I remember correctly, is the 25th?

EDIT:


Mikael Grizzly said:


> Not to mention that the Bible as it is today is composed of carefully chosen source materials that were reinforcing the docrine of the early Christian church, with many,many other accounts being discarded as heretical and non canon.



"God loves everyone, but hates fags."


----------



## Bacu (Sep 26, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Has it occured to you that maybe they were persecuted precisely because they were vying for power by upsetting the social foundations of the ancient world?



:|

Also dammit get back on topic. This was a pretty nice thread until HURR CHRISTENS ARE FAGETS


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

Bacu said:


> :|
> 
> Also dammit get back on topic. This was a pretty nice thread until HURR CHRISTENS ARE FAGETS



On topic: we just have to wait and see what happens at the end.


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> Not a fan of logic?
> 
> Even the truth about the sun being at its lowest for three days in December, rising on the third which, if I remember correctly, is the 25th?



No, I'm not a fan of manipulative pieces of shit, designed to sway the viewer's opinion with cheap tricks. If you believe Zeitgeist's authors, congratulations, you're a gullible sheep. 

Christianity is not original. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain and access to any sort of history resource. No revelation there - the might of the Church was built on the foundations provided by the Roman Empire and its original polytheistic religion system. The fresh religion usurped temples, practices even holidays from the old system, which is why we have Christmas on the _Dies Natalis Solis Invicti_,, also known as the Winter Solstice, we have the cult of saints (who replaced the multiple gods of ancient Rome) and a lot of other miscellaneous elements that perversed the original religion.

I'm simply thinking critically, refusing to believe any random guy with a budget and an agenda.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> No, I'm not a fan of manipulative pieces of shit, designed to sway the viewer's opinion with cheap tricks. If you believe Zeitgeist's authors, congratulations, you're a gullible sheep.
> 
> *Christianity* is not original. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain and access to any sort of history resource. No revelation there - *the might of the Church was built on the foundations provided by the Roman Empire and its original polytheistic religion system.* The fresh religion usurped temples, practices even holidays from the old system, which is why we have Christmas on the _Dies Natalis Solis Invicti_,, also known as the Winter Solstice, we have the cult of saints (who replaced the multiple gods of ancient Rome) and a lot of other miscellaneous elements that perversed the original religion.
> 
> I'm simply thinking critically, *refusing to believe any random guy with a budget and an agenda.*



Cool story, bro.

Now debunk the part about the sun.


----------



## Bacu (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> On topic: we just have to wait and see what happens at the end.


Okay, that's pretty much what I was looking for. Thread's over. Everyone can go home now.


----------



## Tewin Follow (Sep 26, 2009)

Bacu said:


> Okay, that's pretty much what I was looking for. Thread's over. Everyone can go home now.


 
But I am at home! NOW WHAT? *frustration-RAEG*


----------



## Thatch (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> Now debunk the part about the sun.



It does do that. It's a part of it's cycle, older than humanity. So what about it?


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

szopaw said:


> It does do that. It's a part of it's cycle, older than humanity. So what about it?



"Jesus was dead for three days and rose on the third."

Logic/Facts VS "faith."


----------



## Thatch (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> "Jesus was dead for three days and rose on the third."



Yeah, so what about it.


Ooooooooh, you mean the thing where people match their stories to play out real-life events as symbolism, even though nevermind that this particular event was used before christianity and only later adapted by them? That's it, right?

Kinda like the part where horus was sailing on his sun barge and battling a demonic snake to swim through the sky each day, yes? Or the same with Helios and his sun chariot?
Or the part where demons ate the sun during eclipses?

I think I like the  most the one about a lover who carried the moon chasing the one who carried the sun, but unable to come close least he'd be burned.

The one about Osiris being reborn when Sirious is at it's highest point isn't bad too. Or that the shafts in the pyramids target it.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Yeah, so what about it.



Need I spell it out? Christianity is sun worship with a new face. :>


----------



## Thatch (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> Need I spell it out? Christianity is sun worship with a new face. :>



...Wait, only that? Michael already told it.



Mikael Grizzly said:


> practices even holidays from the old system, which is why we have Christmas on the _Dies Natalis Solis Invicti_,, also known as the Winter Solstice



Guess what, you're an official idiot now, happy?


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

szopaw said:


> ...Wait, only that? Michael already told it.



Does sound like he's a strong supporter of it. :]


----------



## Thatch (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> Does sound like he's a strong supporter of it. :]



You're just a stupid conspiracist, just bcause you get one detail correct doesn't mean your overall picture is true.

Christianity isn't the new worshipping of the sun. It adapted some things from it. Like it did from Zoroastrianism and others.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

szopaw said:


> You're just a stupid conspiracist, just bcause you get one detail correct doesn't mean your overall picture is true.
> 
> Christianity isn't the new worshipping of the sun. It adapted some things from it. Like it did from Zoroastrianism and others.



I couldn't give two shits about religion.

I just mock people with short, simple things where necessary. :V


----------



## Thatch (Sep 26, 2009)

Shadow said:


> I couldn't give two shits about religion.
> 
> I just mock people with short, simple things where necessary. :V



It's not mocking if it's you who turns out to be the idiot :|

Especially since you certianly don't hold to the "neccessary" part. It was pretty redundant.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 26, 2009)

szopaw said:


> It's not mocking if it's you who turns out to be the idiot :|
> 
> Especially since you certianly don't hold to the "neccessary" part. It was pretty redundant.



Meh, your preference of speaking.


----------



## Telnac (Sep 26, 2009)

OK, I'm going to back off the whole "is the Bible true" debate that's taking the thread off topic.  I'm happy to debate that in another thread as time permits.  

The only reason I entered this thread and mentioned Christianity & the Bible's teachings at all is because I wanted to clarify that not all Christians believe that you're sent right to Heaven/Hell/Purgatory after death, and that there's scriptural writings to support the notion of one's soul being asleep between the time of death & the day of Judgment.

If you believe the Bible's a 2000 year old fantasy novel, you're welcome to continue to believe that.  It doesn't change the point of my original post.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Sep 27, 2009)

Harebelle said:


> I'ma gurl, bro.



Wouldn't this be akward if I was a girl? lol. Well... Whatever


----------



## FoxPhantom (Sep 27, 2009)

As far as I remembered heading toward near death is possible but sometimes dangerous. 
I am not sure, but to me it depends on what they think on what will happen, (I have not experienced death before, (nor any reincarnations)). 
I have heard once that a friend of mine said he went through it, ( don't know what caused it,) He saw darkness, but in the middle light. he siad he saw his relatives and everyone. that was where he was woken up from near death, ( which I think all it was is a Lucid dream, since he makes tall tales.)


----------



## Fathergia (Sep 27, 2009)

This is my exact(complicated) view on death(and thus far I'm the only person who thinks it like this)
Everything has a soul(everything living anyway) but not everything that has a soul goes to heaven, some go into eternal slumber, why? They did not have a concept of the after life OR they did not have a person that desired for them to be in the after life. Heaven will be exactly what you you envision, if you are atheist then you get eternal slumber(how peaceful) however if someone wants you to be in the after life with them(lets say a mate yeah?) the divine will give you one of two options 
A) Go with your current after life(reincarnation, eternal sleep, pearly gates, non-existence, etc etc) OR
B) Wait for them and go with them to theirs

Most people will not experince hell and if they do then it is for an x amount of time(depending upon severity of the sin) little things are in general over-looked. Doing good does nothing for you in the after-life, it just affects the living realm. The ultimate sin one can commit is the murder of a child.

God judges a person on their morals depending upon their culture(for example lets say that an ancient culture did human sacrifice and they sacrificed a child, that would not count aganist, however if someone in that society killed a child outside of the reason for sacrifice then it would count aganist) 

Okay thats my weird belief 
Good bye


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Sep 27, 2009)

Death is wonderful. It's the sweet release from the urban and social decay that has been pushed on us by the upper elites who only know us as "human resources." Working mules in the eyes of the materialistic, imperialistic aristocracy that controls the government and the corporations of said government's country, and who keep resource rich, third world nations unstable so greedy Capitalists can reap the benefits, while the poor of those country fight civil wars, genocide and poverty. So yeah, death is a sweet thing.


----------



## Shadow (Sep 27, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Death is wonderful. It's the sweet release from the urban and social decay that has been pushed on us by the upper elites who only know us as "human resources." Working mules in the eyes of the materialistic, imperialistic aristocracy that controls the government and the corporations of said government's country, and who keep resource rich, third world nations unstable so greedy Capitalists can reap the benefits, while the poor of those country fight civil wars, genocide and poverty. So yeah, death is a sweet thing.



Preach on! D>


----------



## MichaelFoster (Sep 27, 2009)

It's nothing for eternity. Do you understand eternity!? There's no going back because it's physically impossible. And you won't give a shit because you can't give a shit because you're made up of the same thing as shit! ...i'm starting to sound like Bill Nye..


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Sep 28, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Death is wonderful. It's the sweet release from the urban and social decay that has been pushed on us by the upper elites who only know us as "human resources." Working mules in the eyes of the materialistic, imperialistic aristocracy that controls the government and the corporations of said government's country, and who keep resource rich, third world nations unstable so greedy Capitalists can reap the benefits, while the poor of those country fight civil wars, genocide and poverty. So yeah, death is a sweet thing.



Go kill yourself. :grin:


----------



## Koray (Sep 28, 2009)

wow, I just read this.. and it's kinda scary o-o

but I won't kill myself to see what happens, thank you >.>


----------



## Thatch (Sep 28, 2009)

Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs said:


> Death is wonderful. It's the sweet release from the urban and social decay that has been pushed on us by the upper elites who only know us as "human resources." Working mules in the eyes of the materialistic, imperialistic aristocracy that controls the government and the corporations of said government's country, and who keep resource rich, third world nations unstable so greedy Capitalists can reap the benefits, while the poor of those country fight civil wars, genocide and poverty. So yeah, death is a sweet thing.



So why are you still alive?

Hypocrite.


----------



## mif_maf (Sep 28, 2009)

There is a "Tibetan Book of the Dead", one of many, that was written by the wife of a monk over a hundred years ago. The monk in question had allowed himself to die repeatedly for ever extended periods of time, each time the process was recorded by his wife and he was resuscitated. It provides the most detailed first hand account of death, from both a physiological and psychological perspective. Not an easy book to find but it is still being published.


----------



## Trevfox (Sep 28, 2009)

wen i was in drivers ed my insrtructor told me that wen he got in an accident he died like 3 times or somethin and it was like he was floating above his body watching himself being resuscitated i called him out on a bullshit but he seemed legit


----------



## Zareste (Sep 28, 2009)

I got emergency surgery a few months ago when I gashed my wrist. Pretty close to death, but not to the point where I was fading in and out. I always heard it's easy to do an astral projection while on morphine, which I tried, and failed. The morphine didn't even phase my mind. I also heard you can project easily under anesthesia, but that failed too.

Now, while the christians and atheists whip out their usual defenses, they're both defending ridiculous models of the way consciousness works. It isn't as simple as a bunch of neurons in the brain, and it isn't as simple as an independent soul created by a fictional deity. Most of your thinking takes place in fields of sub-atomic data around your body that work like circuit boards. The brain aids your thinking a little, but mostly coordinates bodily functions.

The data fields don't need much heavy matter, so they can separate from the atomic body for a period of time. You shouldn't ever expect any pearly gates. Some people are just given a personalized 'heaven' scenario by psychics who want to control them, so it's usually fake.

All I remember is blacking out, like yourself. This could mean your mind really did shut down, but it doesn't mean you're kaput. Your consciousness could wake up several hours later, outside of your deceased body. It could also mean something happened while you were dead, but you simply forgot it all. It goes into a sibconscious memory - and a lot of people have wild near-death-experiences but they don't remember it till years later. I was out for three hours, all blank, but I woke up feeling like I had been thinking about something.

tl;dr You're not totally dead until your independent consciousness data is destroyed


----------



## LizardKing (Sep 28, 2009)

Zareste said:


> Now, while the christians and atheists whip out their usual defenses, they're both defending ridiculous models of the way consciousness works. It isn't as simple as a bunch of neurons in the brain, and it isn't as simple as an independent soul created by a fictional deity. Most of your thinking takes place in fields of sub-atomic data around your body that work like circuit boards.



This is fascinating, can you please explain it in some more detail?


----------



## Thatch (Sep 28, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> This is fascinating, can you please explain it in some more detail?



It means we're digimons.


----------



## LizardKing (Sep 28, 2009)

szopaw said:


> So we're digimon?



Hey stop trolling him man, this is some heavy shit right here

[in after ninja-quote]


----------



## Arc (Sep 28, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Hey stop trolling him man, this is some heavy shit right here


I better go tell the internet.


----------



## Ratte (Sep 28, 2009)

szopaw said:


> It means we're digimons.



|3

/idascumon


----------



## Thatch (Sep 28, 2009)

LizardKing said:


> Hey stop trolling him man, this is some heavy shit right here
> 
> [in after ninja-quote]



Inorite? That's why I changed to you, I don't want to be thought of as one of these nasty trolls D:

(plus it looks better when you state it than ask it :V)


----------



## GraemeLion (Sep 28, 2009)

Zareste said:


> Now, while the christians and atheists whip out their usual defenses, they're both defending ridiculous models of the way consciousness works.




Man, it'd be cool if you posted some evidence of some type.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 28, 2009)

redcard said:


> Man, it'd be cool if you posted some evidence of some type.



HAHA, I thought that guy was thee funniest thing to happen to this thread, but you beat it.


----------



## Zareste (Sep 28, 2009)

I had a feeling he would chase me across threads

"This is fascinating, can you please explain it in some more detail?"

I only have a basic understanding of it, since there aren't many references. (Western science assumed all thinking goes on in the brain ever since they discovered the plainly-visible organ in our heads, and Eastern science - while more informed about consciousness - is not very scientific) It's like the concept of chakras, barely-visible fields around our body that govern our personalities, but not as abstract as our new-age chakra models. They're just fields that gather information from the brain (and elsewhere) and keep it data membranes and circuits that consider the information.

It still relies on the body the way an organ does, needing sustenance and some help from the brain, but it can detach for a period of time. After detaching for too long, it can become incoherent and delirious, like falling into a dream, and it begins to disintegrate. So it takes some skill to function without a body.

From there, my understanding is sketchy because I'm no expert on astral projection or incarnation


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 28, 2009)

Zareste said:


> I had a feeling he would chase me across threads
> 
> "This is fascinating, can you please explain it in some more detail?"
> 
> ...



Proof or it doesn't happen.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 28, 2009)

Zareste said:


> I had a feeling he would chase me across threads



Because you're obviously so important.


----------



## Zareste (Sep 28, 2009)

oh wow a youtube link. We're whipping out the hard shit now aren't we


----------



## Thatch (Sep 28, 2009)

Zareste said:


> oh wow a youtube link. We're whipping out the hard shit now aren't we



Just for you, because you're so special to me, oh murr~


----------



## Dahguns (Sep 28, 2009)

brb gonna kill myself to see wat its like


----------



## Patton89 (Sep 28, 2009)

Death isnt like anything, as you cant feel, think or analyse as you die, non-existance tends to make it rather impossible. 
Its nothingness, its just nothing. You die. Poof. Your gone for all eternity, no second chances. 
I would prefer to avoid it for as long as possible.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Sep 28, 2009)

Patton89 said:


> Death isnt like anything, as you cant feel, think or analyse as you die, non-existance tends to make it rather impossible.
> Its nothingness, its just nothing. You die. Poof. Your gone for all eternity, no second chances.
> I would prefer to avoid it for as long as possible.


 Thank you! a brotha who gets it! unlike the bro tryin to kill people over there. with the stain glass pic as his avatar


----------



## 8-bit (Sep 28, 2009)

Death is the end. There is no afterlife, so stop burying yourself with your coutch and mini-fridge.


----------



## Zareste (Sep 28, 2009)

Does it inconvenience you guys so much to just think?


----------



## Dahguns (Sep 28, 2009)

8-bit said:


> Death is the end. There is no afterlife, so stop burying yourself with your coutch and mini-fridge.


lolflamebait


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 28, 2009)

Zareste said:


> Does it inconvenience you guys so much to just think?



It does with some people.

and it does inconvenience me at the moment cause my brain wants nme to go to bed but I am being a stubborn fuck and still sitting here at the comp.

Spose i had better head to bed.


----------



## 8-bit (Sep 28, 2009)

Dahguns said:


> lolflamebait



Lolegyptians.


----------



## Telnac (Sep 29, 2009)

OK, I could astral project just fine w/o morphine.  Granted, I haven't done that in 17 years by choice.  But I'm about to go in for surgery when the doc's already told me he's going to give me morphine for my post-op hospital stay.

Should I be concerned with my soul saying "fuck it all" and deciding to not return?


----------



## Mojotaian (Sep 29, 2009)

Shadow said:


> "Jesus was dead for three days and rose on the third."
> 
> Logic/Facts VS "faith."


 
It's called sleeping in! Duh!

CAN WE CUT THIS FUCKING RELIGIOUS CRAP! GO DEBATE ON A THREAD WHERE IT BELONGS!!!!!!!!!!! RAEG!!!

That aside, did you say you were dead for 17 seconds or something... wasn't that a song by "The Cure"? Also something about the brains 17s or sometihng?


----------



## Eerie Silverfox (Sep 29, 2009)

Derricklesters2009 said:


> When I recovered, people always ask me what itâ€™s like to die. All of my friends
> are Christian so I basically told them what they wanted to hear because I
> didnâ€™t want to rack their faith.


WEAK! You will go and tell them what really happened!


----------



## Microsoftt (Sep 29, 2009)

The idea of nothingness after death is comforting to me. No memories of horrible events to pain you, and no memories of the things and people you'll miss to pain you. The idea that it makes someone uncomfortable to think about it is irrelevant, because a lack of consciousness in a dark black pit means you won't be uncomfortable about it after death. It is the coldest, yet most comforting idea of any afterlife I can imagine. I would hate to die and be in some afterlife waiting for years and years all by myself, all alone, waiting for the people I loved to die and follow me. I would much rather be in an empty, thoughtless plane of non-existence.

But you know what scares me? Not death, but pain. Physical pain is the most torturous thing that can ever happen to anyone. Emotional pain can suck, but nothing hurts at the moment like breaking an arm, your ribs caving in, etc. I'm not afraid of death, but I am afraid of the pain that could be before dying.


----------



## Attaman (Sep 30, 2009)

Microsoftt said:


> but I am afraid of the pain that could be before dying.


  Same.  Though extremely unlikely, I will always know there is the slim chance of an "I have no mouth, yet I must scream" type of existence before death (see:  Oh gods why can't I die yet?).


----------



## BlackDragonAlpha (Sep 30, 2009)

If you wanna know what death is, try slashing ur wrist, or be emo.


----------



## Thatch (Sep 30, 2009)

BlackDragonAlpha said:


> or be emo.



Emos fail at dying. Unfortunately.


----------



## Microsoftt (Sep 30, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Emos fail at dying. Unfortunately.



This is true. They only slit wrists and take pictures of it for attention, not to die. Fortunately, some accidentally kill themselves while trying to get attention!


----------



## Randy-Darkshade (Sep 30, 2009)

Microsoftt said:


> This is true. They only slit wrists and take pictures of it for attention, not to die. Fortunately, some accidentally kill themselves while trying to get attention!



No sympathy from me when Emo's do something that stupid.


----------



## Zareste (Sep 30, 2009)

I slashed my wrist by accident, and I can say it didn't hurt. I mostly felt nauseous after a minute of bleeding


----------



## MichaelFoster (Sep 30, 2009)

szopaw said:


> Emos fail at dying. Unfortunately.


 I tried to commit suicide about a month ago. Old fashioned style with a pocket knife my dead grandmother gave to me about two years before she died. Seemed like a good way to go. 
 I woke up in the hospital the next day. They're telling me my mom saved me after i passed out, but im starting to consider this whole scientology thing. (yes i have my doubts that you're not real and somebody's fucking with me). 
 OKay it took me like two hours to find this but here's a description of the ending of a Futurama episode that kinda relates to what im trying to say.
 "The next scene is Bender still receiving his upgrade. It was all a dream! The technician tells Bender that each robot experiences the upgrade differently, before telling him to get out.

Bender emerges on the street outside Mom Corp. He says, "Reality is what you make of it", then walks away into a fantasy land, complete with unicorns, fairies, treasure chests, and cigar trees."
 So I don't think it will be all awesome and everything, nor do I believe I'll remember (it could have already happened) but I could wake up at the end of my 50+ year life after a week-long coma at the age of five. (If i lost you i'd still be five years old.
 But yeah I'm a sick fuck


----------



## Mikael Grizzly (Oct 1, 2009)

5$ you did it the wrong way, slashing across the wrists, rather than down the length of your forearm.


----------



## Patton89 (Oct 1, 2009)

The tendons protect the important blood vessels in the wrists if you cut across the wrists. They wont protect if you cut from up to down. 
Nasty bit of info i have found out in biology class in what, 6th-7th grade. In any case suicide wouldnt really appeal to me. I am quite fond of little life. 
I guess when you consider death to be the absolute end its not really appealing to die.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Oct 1, 2009)

I did it where the big blue veins on your wrist are. Is that the wrong way? I don't think you remember that I passed out. She saved me. As in she stopped me on my way to dying. I should have died. Are you supposed to cut where they draw blood?


----------



## Patton89 (Oct 1, 2009)

I dont care or know, nor do i really want to even tell you that to be honest. 
In any case, no one can claim that you should have died. Its nonsense.
You survived, you got lucky. If i was "supposed" to die, i would be rather dead now. I have been close choking to death in my life quite often, and only thing why i am still alive is because there happened to be someone near. If it wasnt for my late grampa, for example, i would have died in the age of 6. He being there, was pure luck. Nothing else. Normally he wouldnt have been in our house.


----------



## Zareste (Oct 1, 2009)

"  So I don't think it will be all awesome and everything, nor do I believe I'll remember (it could have already happened) but I could wake up at the end of my 50+ year life after a week-long coma at the age of five. (If i lost you i'd still be five years old."

I've read a lot about death - stories about people seeing a 'light at the end of the tunnel', stories where they're left wandering outside their body, stories where they just black out, and a number of stories where they're dragged away by astral predators or pulled into voids. This happens to people regardless of their faith, and you can imagine what it's like for the ones who don't come back

I'm not opposed to suicide itself, but if you do it wrong, you're just jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.


----------



## Ieatcrackersandjumpcliffs (Oct 1, 2009)

Mikael Grizzly said:


> Go kill yourself. :grin:


 


szopaw said:


> So why are you still alive?
> 
> Hypocrite.


 
That's what they want me to do. I won't let the Establishment get away with what they are doing. No way. I will keep on preaching the truth to the masses.


----------



## Lukar (Oct 1, 2009)

Wow... That scared me more than it made me think. =/


----------



## MichaelFoster (Oct 2, 2009)

Lukar said:


> Wow... That scared me more than it made me think. =/


My theory? There's not a day that i don't think about it.


----------



## Mojotaian (Oct 2, 2009)

Kid... no... either that's lame or just... no...


----------



## Microsoftt (Oct 2, 2009)

THIS ONE TIME I ATE A WHOLE TUB OF BUTTER IN A SUICIDAL ATTEMPT TO CLOG MY ARTERIES AND DIE


----------



## Hir (Oct 2, 2009)

Microsoftt said:


> THIS ONE TIME I ATE A WHOLE TUB OF BUTTER IN A SUICIDAL ATTEMPT TO CLOG MY ARTERIES AND DIE


yummy death


----------



## MichaelFoster (Oct 3, 2009)

Mojotaian said:


> Kid... no... either that's lame or just... no...



Who are you talking to and if you're talking to me, what the fuck are you trying to say!?


----------



## Hir (Oct 3, 2009)

MichaelFoster said:


> Who are you talking to and if you're talking to me, what the fuck are you trying to say!?


He is saying he likes you. :3


----------



## Koray (Oct 3, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> He is saying he likes you. :3



Oh, Darky, you :3 *humphumphump*


----------



## Ibuuyk (Oct 3, 2009)

When you die, you go the Hades, where you have to pay Charon to cross the Styx.  If you didn't receive funerals, you'll have to take a 100 years long detour before finally reaching the Judges.  There they'll decide if you'll go the the Elysean Fields ("Heaven"), or the Tartarus ("Hell").  If you end up in the Elysean Fields, you'll have the choice to meet your family, ancestors and friends, or drink water from the Lethe to become amnesiac, and rebirth.  If you end up in the Tartarus, you'll be tortured for all eternity.

Thats what I like to believe in, hope you enjoyed the description ^^.


----------



## Hir (Oct 3, 2009)

DevianFur said:


> Oh, Darky, you :3 *humphumphump*


Unf unf


----------



## MichaelFoster (Oct 3, 2009)

DarkNoctus said:


> Unf unf



That's hot!


----------



## virus (Oct 3, 2009)

Death is an experience of everything and nothing at the same time. Sort of amusing when you die everyone else around you follows your demise and dies with you, because well human perception is a slowed down variant of time. We can't perceive the true speed of the cosmos- well if we did.. everything would live and die in seconds. There is nothing super fantastic when you die but there is a door in a world you can go into, an empty black mist where people unanimously wander. Been there in my sleep because my brain turned on the seize function switch but I woke up before it counted down all the way.
You can randomly die in your sleep. Don't dream too long.


----------



## Triad Fox (Oct 3, 2009)

Death is like smoking DMT and not coming down. Or something.


----------



## Thatch (Oct 3, 2009)

MichaelFoster said:


> I tried to commit suicide about a month ago.



You failed at dying, thanks for reinforcing my argument :V



MichaelFoster said:


> I did it where the big blue veins on your wrist are. Is that the wrong way?



Mighty wrong.


----------



## MichaelFoster (Oct 4, 2009)

szopaw said:


> You failed at dying, thanks for reinforcing my argument :V
> 
> 
> 
> Mighty wrong.


I knew I should have googled how to kill yourself! lol I was dying. Just not fast enough I guess. I was a new kid at school, complications came up between my step-grandmother and my parents and now I can't see her anymore, my girlfriend moved, I was having to start all over and I didn't want to live. 
Oh well. I got lucky somehow and I'm not only living, but I'm not an outcast at all, I've got great friends all over the school, and I still have my personality. So I'm punky And I fit in.


----------



## Hir (Oct 4, 2009)

MichaelFoster said:


> I knew I should have googled how to kill yourself! lol I was dying. Just not fast enough I guess. I was a new kid at school, complications came up between my step-grandmother and my parents and now I can't see her anymore, my girlfriend moved, I was having to start all over and I didn't want to live.
> Oh well. I got lucky somehow and I'm not only living, but I'm not an outcast at all, I've got great friends all over the school, and I still have my personality. So I'm punky And I fit in.


You Googled how to kill yourself?



Just stick a knife in your chest and be done with it.


----------



## The Walkin Dude (Oct 4, 2009)

Go big or go home.

Eat a bottle of tylenol, drink a fifth of Jack, cut you wrists, and then jump off of something really high.

If that doesn't work, stop trying, Satan doesn't want you.


----------



## LizardKing (Oct 4, 2009)

Plastic bag over head
Rope round neck
Masturbate until blackout


----------



## lilEmber (Oct 4, 2009)

The Walkin Dude said:


> Go big or go home.
> 
> Eat a bottle of tylenol, drink a fifth of Jack, cut you wrists, and then jump off of something really high.
> 
> If that doesn't work, stop trying, Satan doesn't want you.



Shotgun is bigger.


----------



## The Walkin Dude (Oct 4, 2009)

But there's still that small chance you might survive.

My plan is fail proof.


----------

