# I am absolutely clueless on pricing.



## Ayeaka (Dec 18, 2011)

So, yesterday I made a gift for a friend of mine out of shrinking plastic.

I've made a few similar things in the past, and they make pretty nice keychains, since they're durable.

I suppose they could also make teeny con badges. I have plenty of different options for sealant, too, though in my experience the colour doesn't really scratch off.
The problem is, I have absolutely no idea how to price something like this, and I'd really like to open up for commissions, because I was recently gifted four packs of shrinking plastic sheets, they're really fun to do...and I need some extra cash for visiting friends/FF/etc.

The plastic sheets are about $7 here for 10 sheets per pack, and I can usually get 4-6 of the little guys out of each sheet. They're coloured with a combination of sharpie, prismacolour markers, and prismacolour pencils, with gell pen. The markers don't factor in much, but the sheets _really_ eat up pencils pretty fast. I usually have to sharpen the main colour used 2-3 times just doing one of the little guys.
I guess the total time taken is 2.5 hours? I do a digital sketch first and print it out, so the commissioner would get the digital sketch too, if they wanted.
Of course, I'm not sure how much demand there'd be for something like this, either.


(I also apologize if this is entirely the wrong place for this. I figured it belonged here since I'm not actually _opening_ for commissions on these just yet, and am seeking advice?)


----------



## Cloudy (Dec 18, 2011)

Hey Ayeaka,

Firefeathers and others have done something similar to this: 
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5616168/

Firefeathers charged $15 to recolor a premade template; However, two pieces were also used. But I think you could easily charge $15, because your art appears to be of good quality, and a huge plus is the fact that you're not using a template--you're actually drawing the character. You'd probably want to include some sort of chain or keychain, or at least say that you aren't if you don't. Then just make sure that people know the size, having the quarter right next to it really helps because it can be hard for people to imagine actual size without a reference object. And charge whatever shipping would cost you so you don't lose money there. 

I don't know how much demand there will be; I know Firefeathers made a large amount of the dangly-tail charms, though. You could always offer a cheaper price, like $10+ shipping, for the first few or something if you want to work on getting the word out first/get some more examples. 

I'm sorry that that's probably not much help. I just remembered the similar item, and thought maybe a reference-price could be helpful.


----------



## Ayeaka (Dec 18, 2011)

Ah, that is actually _quite_ helpful, thank-you!


----------



## FireFeathers (Dec 20, 2011)

Cloudy said:


> a huge plus is the fact that you're not using a template--you're actually drawing the character.




Template was often altered constantly to fit the character and generally required a couple hours of fiddling for each. It was just a base  to start from. 



Anyways, downside to those shrinky dink sheets is that they're not durable. That stuff shatters pretty damn easily, and the coating on the top scratches and comes right off with a little bit of water, no matter how you coat the things. I tried damn near everything to get that top coat to hold up and the product itself is meant for kid's doodles n' what  have you, it's a sort of stunted medium.  Someone that practically went to the ends of the earth and back to find a way to get that product to hold up reliably was Neondragon, annnnd you might get a month or two if you never use it as a keychain, but i once ordered something very similar, and that thing shattered the second day I had it. So keep that in mind.


----------



## Ayeaka (Dec 20, 2011)

Really?

I've been using a few tags I made out of shrinking plastic for my luggage for a while, and despite getting banged around all over the place (and being stuffed in with cargo in several planes, buses, etc,) it hasn't so much as scuffed.

Though I'm guessing durability might vary by brand, and substance used to coat, too, as far as scuffing. I'll need to test them a bit more, I guess.

I'll ask a few friends that I did badges for, too, since it was a good year and a half ago that I did them, at least. I literally just used sculpey glaze on one of them, since that seems to provide a pretty good seal.

I know my ex's dad used to use shrinking plastic for custom D&D miniatures, but it was the inkjet sheets. I'm not sure if they're a different consistency, or just a different surface tooth.


----------



## FireFeathers (Dec 20, 2011)

Ayeaka said:


> Really?
> 
> I've been using a few tags I made out of shrinking plastic for my luggage for a while, and despite getting banged around all over the place (and being stuffed in with cargo in several planes, buses, etc,) it hasn't so much as scuffed.
> 
> ...




Generally, a lot of artists have used it as a medium at one point in time or another, and there's a reason they don't continue to do so.  The reason I stopped doing those is that was a majority that remained perfectly fine if no one got it near water, if they were careful and so-forth.  I've got one on my car's rear view mirror that does just peachy; but I found a shrinky sheet, unshrunk that had fallen behind my computer was just riddled with these cracks, even without being treated; what you're going to find with your sheets is that they've got a lifespan of about 2 months on them before they start falling apart. The design starts pulling away from the plastic and falls off; and it doesn't matter what you coat it in. 

So if it doesn't break, it'll start looking like an old antique vase before the design falls off.  The actual design falling off could go until about 7 months.   I coated mine in a polyurethane, and some of them have done pretty damn good for a while, I still run across some that are a year and a half old and they look great. But then again I had some people come back to me after a few months and I had to offer alternatives.  The main reason i stopped doing the little necklaces is that I didn't like taking that crapshoot and I couldn't back a product that randomly decided to work or not.  Shrinky-dink's brand is hypothetically the best, and off-shoots of that have similar problems, i've been told.  Like I said before, it's a kid's toy, it's not meant for mass commercialism.


----------



## Cloudy (Dec 20, 2011)

That's too bad. Weird, though--I have shrinkydinks I made forever ago that still have their designs on them and all that jazz, and still have a glassy coating free of any cracks/design is still the same shitty design I drew on it when I was like 8 XD Granted, it's never been a keychain or anything, though. But it has been shuffled about and not-cared for constantly. 

I would say, though, that if they don't hold up they aren't worth selling, simply in the name of good business practices. It would suck to get excited over commissioning something and have it break within the week.


----------



## Ayeaka (Dec 20, 2011)

I just did a scratch durability test.

I haven't done a true 'brute force' or break test, but trying to snap them with my bare hands failed. I suppose with a sufficiently long, skinny one I could, but the charms I make usually aren't proportioned that way.
Haven't tried fulcruming them over my desk, but I imagine that'd break most plastic things.

As for age, I'll go snap a picture of my bag tags later.

As for the untreated sheets, I'm not sure what age would do? They're logically years old by the time you buy them... so I don't see what a few extra months would do.
I've never had any experience with my charms wearing out or breaking, but since you raised the concern I do want to sufficiently test them to be sure.


I'm searching through google for issues with durability/solutions/etc, and I'm not really finding anything. So far I've found an article on key duplicates made in shrinking plastic being used to break into buildings (successfully,) and a few artists using them to make jewelry, buttons, etc. So far I'm thinking my charms should still hold up nicely, since I haven't managed to find otherwise unless I deliberately try to ruin them, but certainly I'd replace anything for free within a few months' time should anything go wrong.
I'm curious; did this happen with multiple batches of the shrinking plastic, or was it all from one batch? I don't doubt your experiences, I've simply been unable to replicate them, and while this is something I still want to pursue (as I know quite a few artists that use the shrinking film for jewelry and similar things, and enjoy working with it,) I don't want to have any mishaps.


----------



## FireFeathers (Dec 21, 2011)

Ayeaka said:


> I just did a scratch durability test.
> 
> I haven't done a true 'brute force' or break test, but trying to snap them with my bare hands failed. I suppose with a sufficiently long, skinny one I could, but the charms I make usually aren't proportioned that way.
> Haven't tried fulcruming them over my desk, but I imagine that'd break most plastic things.
> ...



Multiple batches.  I'm just giving you a fair warning since neondragon gave me a fair warning.  It'll be like a neverending shrinky dink warning chain, lol.   The number of people contacting me about this issue was fairly low, under 10 people.  But that's only the people that took that extra step to get it replaced, i have to imagine from the small stock i have left, how i check every 2 months and always throw away another handful of charms because they've expired, that the number would be higher.  It's not like it just snaps in half by itself one day, these white lines just start appearing all over the colored/printed side of it and grow in number the older it gets. 

The thing with the untreated page was more just to say that even on it's own, because it was a thought that the reason those cracks happened was due to the coating you put on top of it, that it's just the product itself that doesn't hold up.  So in a dark, preserved place away from the sun and being disturbed, it still kinda fell apart. I think that was the final straw for me that I pulled everything down.


----------



## Ayeaka (Dec 21, 2011)

Hnm...

So nothing effected by media used? I WAS wondering that, too, since the way you describe the cracks forming... I was wondering if something was somehow eating slowly at the plastic. I know that shrinking plastic is just pretty bog standard #6, so I wouldn't _think_ that to be the case, but something has to be going on if they're literally forming on their own.

I have old packages from years back that still seem to be fine, too. :/ (Aside from one that got broken in half from being stepped on. ....oops.)

I still have little things I made from when I was a kidlet too, and none of them have shown wear or tear... ditto for random assorted things from middle and high school, etc. I suppose since it seems like random, albeit common incidents here and there, I'm curious as to what exactly is causing the material to behave that way. If it was all or none I could understand, but it doesn't seem like it's something that _always_ happens at all, so there has to be _something_ causing it to happen.

I've also been experimenting with a faux fused glass technique at higher temperatures, and the resulting charms are VERY durable. I'm also wondering if bringing the normal charms to this higher temperature would help. A few minutes at even 450Â°F is enough to melt all the 'scratches' without distortion, and turn frosted plastic clear. 
The cracking is with the frosted, right? I'm also wondering if it's something related to whatever machine proccess they use to pre-sand. I'd like to isolate the specific cause, essentially.


----------



## Katzchen (Dec 25, 2011)

Like most things, if you take care of it it'll last longer. I've got a shrinky dink a friend made me about 10 years ago that only has a couple water drip marks on it. I'm pretty sure she didn't use anything to seal it.


----------

